IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-10-03

*** TeringTuby has quit IRC		00:00
timeless_pidgin	So, just as you wanted someone to give you an already-working app, i wanted someone to get us an already-working app.	00:00
valgrind	@pupnic I see.. and thats a bluetooth solution ??	00:00
valgrind	@pupnik you still use the 770 ??	00:00
valgrind	@pupnik I came pretty far with getting everything up and running. but the usb hostmode is a struggle. in the hacker edition it seems i run into a hardlink that i cant access even though im root.	00:02
*** TiagoTiago has joined #maemo		00:02
valgrind	with my knowledge of unix, i find it confusing that root has less than full access. hmm...	00:02
TiagoTiago	hi	00:03
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC		00:03
*** radic has quit IRC		00:03
TiagoTiago	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=831852 pretty please with sugar on top	00:04
crashanddie	valgrind:, why?	00:04
TiagoTiago	?	00:04
*** guardian has quit IRC		00:04
pupnik	valgrind: i haven't done the hostmode myself, so i just wish you good luck.	00:05
*** piggz has quit IRC		00:05
crashanddie	valgrind: MohammadAG made quite a lot of progress with hostmode	00:05
crashanddie	MohammadAG: what's the status update on that, btw?	00:05
*** nuovodna has quit IRC		00:05
MohammadAG	the patches are sarahn's, I compiled them and released the binaries, as well as the UI to start hostmode, however, it's still in prealpha	00:06
valgrind	aah... ?? great :)	00:06
MohammadAG	Huge thanks to DocScrutinizer, sarahn, and the devs involved, I can't take credit for anything except the UI	00:07
MohammadAG	also, thanks to my school for having boring lessons, I couldn't have reproduced it without em	00:07
*** piggz has joined #maemo		00:07
valgrind	@MohammadAG For the 2007 software or the 2008HE ??	00:07
MohammadAG	hmm? this is about the N900 right?	00:07
*** sar3th\|away has quit IRC		00:07
*** absic has left #maemo		00:07
valgrind	sorry... friend of mine gave me the 770. Its the old 770.	00:07
valgrind	apparently not the hottest thing at the bar right now :D	00:08
*** citygent has quit IRC		00:08
pupnik	i still like the 770 a lot	00:08
crashanddie	"The old 770"?	00:08
TiagoTiago	lol	00:08
valgrind	haha.. sorry...	00:08
pupnik	it's just that websites suck	00:08
TiagoTiago	is there a new one?	00:08
crashanddie	TiagoTiago: the... n800 770, and the n810 770...	00:09
valgrind	im not sure.. give a paintjob perhaps ??	00:09
valgrind	so the n900 is the hot topic.	00:09
TiagoTiago	oh? really? i thought it was just N800, N770 being the previous model	00:10
valgrind	770,800,810	00:10
*** radic has joined #maemo		00:10
valgrind	those are the only predecessors i guess.	00:10
TiagoTiago	so there isn't a new 770, no need to say "the old 770"	00:10
crashanddie	TiagoTiago: it was a joke	00:10
TiagoTiago	oh, sorry, i don't get it	00:10
crashanddie	no problem	00:11
DocScrutinizer	valgrind: usually irc clients won't highlight on @<nickname>, please use <nickname>: or <nickname>, instead	00:11
TiagoTiago	lol	00:11
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		00:11
MohammadAG	N770 doesn't exist	00:11
MohammadAG	it's 770, without the N :P	00:11
valgrind	haha.. sorry.. my mistake. like saying "no.. thats my old wife", when you are still with her :D	00:11
TiagoTiago	if you must use the @, place a space between it and the nick	00:11
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		00:11
TiagoTiago	hm	00:11
TiagoTiago	though on IRC @nickname usually means the nick in question has operator powers or somthing	00:12
valgrind	ooh.. sorry. been awhile since I used IRC.	00:12
TiagoTiago	it's alright	00:12
*** smooph has quit IRC		00:12
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		00:12
*** smooph has joined #maemo		00:13
DocScrutinizer	valgrind: don't worry, no damage done	00:13
TiagoTiago	usually it doesn't come up on chat anyway, just on the list of people currently int he channel, so the meaning doesn't get confused akk that easilly	00:13
valgrind	still a great UI though. black, green and blue text. IRC is eyecandy for every penny	00:13
TiagoTiago	all*	00:13
TiagoTiago	lol	00:13
TiagoTiago	depend on what client you're using	00:13
valgrind	haha... i want the one with animated GIFs then	00:14
TiagoTiago	right now i'm getting grayish-white text on black background	00:14
valgrind	the 89 feel :)	00:14
*** unluckier has joined #maemo		00:14
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:14
valgrind	hmm.. make that 95	00:14
unluckier	:-o so many people.. hello	00:14
TiagoTiago	I can write like on burned green phosphor if i want though :P	00:15
valgrind	unluckier ?? can i please borrow that nick for my dating profile	00:15
TiagoTiago	lol	00:15
*** citygent has joined #maemo		00:15
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:15
unluckier	valgrind: =)	00:15
*** millenomi has quit IRC		00:15
unluckier	valgrind: sure, no problem. just don't date where nickserv rules	00:16
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		00:16
TiagoTiago	even yellow phosphor	00:16
valgrind	ooh.. i would love to see the yellow one	00:16
TiagoTiago	your client doesn't do collors?	00:16
valgrind	its saturday afterall :)	00:16
valgrind	trying Mirc for the first time. guess chatzilla is long gone or out of fashion	00:17
TiagoTiago	i'm on it	00:17
valgrind	hmmm... on Chrome anyway. Love the way It refuses to crash.	00:17
TiagoTiago	have yuo checked X-chat btw?	00:17
unluckier	there's something that's been annoying me for a while now.. is there no less for maemo5?	00:17
valgrind	aah..x-chat. 32bit client.	00:18
valgrind	yes.	00:18
TiagoTiago	unluckier: apt-get install less	00:18
lindi-	valgrind: chromium crashes on my arm systems quite often, need to make some history files read-only to cope with it	00:18
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:18
*** msanchez has quit IRC		00:18
unluckier	TiagoTiago: blush damn, so easy. i was sure i tried that already... well, thanks	00:19
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:19
TiagoTiago	yw	00:19
kerio	mirc is a piece of shit	00:19
TiagoTiago	lol	00:19
valgrind	lindi: i have had the problem with laptop chrashes. chrome complains about damaged settings file	00:19
valgrind	here we go... Geekwar	00:20
unluckier	irssi ftw..? =)	00:20
*** andre___ has joined #maemo		00:20
valgrind	irssi ?	00:21
unluckier	_the_ irc client.	00:21
unluckier	totally.	00:21
valgrind	ooh... i see.	00:21
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:22
valgrind	well... irc is good. the gf wont get jaleous because if there are any chicks on irc, they know how to chown	00:22
*** TeringTuby has joined #maemo		00:22
TiagoTiago	irssi is that console based IRC client, right?	00:23
TiagoTiago	~irssi	00:24
infobot	methinks irssi is a modular IRC client for UNIX. See http://irssi.org/, or the door to the 1337	00:24
unluckier	TiagoTiago: it is.	00:24
unluckier	hehe, door to the 1337..	00:24
*** Flipi is now known as Flipi\|BNC		00:25
unluckier	does anyone here use khweeteur? does its bit.ly support actually do anything?	00:25
*** timeless_pidgin has quit IRC		00:25
*** diegohcg has quit IRC		00:25
*** guardian has joined #maemo		00:26
*** hannesw has quit IRC		00:27
*** linuxdaily has quit IRC		00:27
valgrind	haha.. Irssi. that is so funky	00:28
valgrind	even my Nvidia 8600m GT can run It	00:29
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo		00:29
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		00:30
*** b0tz has quit IRC		00:31
*** w00t_ has left #maemo		00:31
valgrind	hmm... so turning on hostmode on a 770. kinda of hopeless considering the fact that the 770 cant deliver power to the keyboard anyway.	00:31
crashanddie	erhm...	00:31
crashanddie	hostmode on 770 works fine	00:31
TiagoTiago	physicly hack it to make it deliver	00:31
valgrind	it does ?? hmm.. okay.	00:32
crashanddie	johnx: ping	00:32
valgrind	with the echo host command ??	00:32
johnx	crashanddie, pong	00:32
crashanddie	johnx: valgrind needs some help with the 770 host mode	00:32
johnx	crashanddie, I saw, but I never owned a 770	00:32
crashanddie	eh?	00:32
crashanddie	Oh, you did it with the n800	00:33
crashanddie	crap	00:33
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:33
johnx	valgrind, the thing to google for might be "power injector 770"	00:33
pupnik	good old days..	00:33
crashanddie	valgrind: my bad, sorry for the confusion	00:33
valgrind	johnx: i installed the 2008HE version, but folderstructure seem different, and there is a hardlink i cant access as root, so i gave up and downgraded to to 2007 os	00:33
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:33
*** beford has joined #maemo		00:34
crashanddie	valgrind: a hardlink you can't access as root?	00:34
*** guardian has quit IRC		00:34
crashanddie	valgrind: where does it point to	00:34
crashanddie	?	00:34
*** beford has quit IRC		00:34
*** beford has joined #maemo		00:34
johnx	valgrind, in either case, you need an external circuit to provide power to the keyboard, I think	00:34
valgrind	hmm.. the otg folder i suppose.	00:34
valgrind	the guide on Maemo website seems incorrect when on the hacker edition.	00:34
crashanddie	wouldn't an externally-powered usb hub work?	00:34
*** visz has quit IRC		00:34
*** piggz has quit IRC		00:35
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:35
valgrind	i suppose the usb hub i have works. connected it to a battery delivering 5 volts.	00:35
*** BCMM has quit IRC		00:35
valgrind	so keyboard should be alive. but hostmode is teasing.	00:35
dolp	is there like a way for my widget to monitor sent SMS.. i mean like everytime i send sms my widget should update something	00:35
johnx	don't you need to provide power back to the 770 to actually trigger the chip to go into hostmode?	00:35
johnx	or did that change?	00:36
valgrind	so im confused what linus is actually running on the 770 and the 800	00:36
crashanddie	dolp: poll the el.db sqlite database	00:36
johnx	the N800 is totally different hardware though...	00:36
valgrind	ooh... right.. i read about a otg dongle	00:36
valgrind	ooh.. i see. so running the 770 as an 800 will never really be a success.	00:36
johnx	yeah, the N800 does provide power on it's USB port	00:37
valgrind	explains why pidgin and skype were crashing	00:37
valgrind	ooh..	00:37
valgrind	damn	00:37
johnx	well, the CPU is similar, but it's a different "motherboard" if you want to think about it that way	00:37
valgrind	so getting an n800 would make the whole situation easier.	00:37
johnx	yeah, but the d-pad on the n800 is worse	00:37
johnx	and no cover	00:38
johnx	but the N800 has a stand which is very cool	00:38
valgrind	hmm.. the d-pad ??	00:38
johnx	the direction pad, the arrow keys :)	00:38
valgrind	aah... i see. and still a debian sarge cut down to nothing	00:38
johnx	yeah	00:38
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		00:39
johnx	also, it doesn't see a huge amount of active development for it	00:39
valgrind	aah.. okay.. dont use them. i just want to use the 770 for writing at my coffeebar. thought it would be cool.	00:39
valgrind	haha... what ?? how can an iPad be cooler than my 770 ?? tsk...	00:39
TiagoTiago	considering all the effort done on the N900 and the technology used, the could totally have added a 5way mouse controller thingy (either an optical trackball, or somthing like a little glass nub extending the touch sensitivity o fthe screen)	00:40
TiagoTiago	it's coller 'cause it isn't running anything, without eating energy flipping lots of bits little heat is generated :P	00:40
valgrind	so the n900 is cool ? but how does that allow an external keyboard ??	00:40
valgrind	haha.. true.. that is what cool actually means.	00:41
TiagoTiago	:P	00:41
johnx	to run a keyboard off the N800, you need: USB female host-A to USB male mini-B	00:41
johnx	and a keyboard that takes less than 100mA	00:42
johnx	or a bluetooth keyboard	00:42
valgrind	wow.. okay. that means the 770 is a dissater with keyboards unless using bluetooth.	00:42
* MohammadAG ran a 200mA flash on the N900		00:42
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:42
MohammadAG	even though the limit is 100, we just commented it out of the kernel	00:42
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC		00:42
*** piggz has joined #maemo		00:43
johnx	MohammadAG, I think there's a way to tell the N800 to disable power restrictions which lets you get up to 200mA	00:43
johnx	but for devices 100mA or under it "just works" (tm)	00:43
TiagoTiago	would it b e possible to add a MITM thingy with double-As that sends power to the plugged device?	00:43
*** MadViking has quit IRC		00:44
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo		00:44
johnx	TiagoTiago, sure, but the keyboard would still say to the N800 over usb "I need 250mA" and the N800 would refuse	00:44
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		00:45
johnx	so, what you want is a usb hub with batteries in it	00:45
johnx	cyberpower makes one	00:45
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo		00:45
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:45
TiagoTiago	yeah, i was thinking of somthing like that, though not necessarilly made on a factory	00:45
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		00:45
*** RangerBob has joined #maemo		00:46
TiagoTiago	would the hub let two devices talk with eachother isntead of going down towards the host wire?	00:46
johnx	nope	00:46
johnx	that's not the way USB works	00:46
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:46
johnx	USB is only host<->device, not device<->device or host<->host	00:47
TiagoTiago	in my head it was all a single piece of metal that shared the pulses from all devices	00:47
TiagoTiago	and the devices just waited for their turn before sending their own pulses	00:47
*** visz has joined #maemo		00:47
BCMM	it's a shame 1394 isn't more widespread...	00:47
TiagoTiago	isn't that how ethernet over powerline works?	00:48
*** geaaru has quit IRC		00:50
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		00:50
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		00:50
TiagoTiago	that's probably a TEMPEST nightmare though	00:50
johnx	TiagoTiago, yeah, that's how an ethernet hub works	00:52
TiagoTiago	which is faster, USb or ethernet?	00:52
BCMM	johnx: or thinnet	00:52
jacktheripper	I just found an easy way to repartition the n900. It's using the meego rescue initrd, do I post it to wiki ?	00:52
nox-	TiagoTiago, gigE is faster than usb	00:53
BCMM	that was pretty much "every device is connected to a pair of conductors and waits to talk"	00:53
nox-	TiagoTiago, (and also more reliable in my experience...)	00:53
unluckier	i've never seen usb go faster than good ol fast ethernet in real lif conditions..	00:53
johnx	BCMM, or wifi ;) or the original "ethernet" :D	00:54
TiagoTiago	why USB is seen as better than ethernet?	00:54
luke-jr_	TiagoTiago: wtf?	00:54
BCMM	original ethernet before my time, but my parents used to have thinnet	00:54
luke-jr_	USB is inherently bad design	00:54
nox-	oh unluckier i have seen some 20 MB/sec before...	00:54
luke-jr_	compared to almost anything	00:54
SpeedEvil	I have my / on USB.	00:54
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		00:54
SpeedEvil	It goes at 30MB/s	00:54
nox-	luke-jr_, usb is desingned to be as cheap as possible i think	00:54
SpeedEvil	it's not really a limitation for me.	00:54
luke-jr_	SpeedEvil: at the expense of CPU time	00:54
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: to a small degree.	00:55
luke-jr_	large*	00:55
johnx	better than root on NFS :P	00:55
luke-jr_	johnx: invalid comparison	00:55
luke-jr_	ATA over Ethernet is valid	00:55
BCMM	the cpu time is the big deal here - USB (rather than firewire) is basically a false economy, unless you use it infrequently	00:55
luke-jr_	don't forget eSATA ;)	00:55
nox-	nod	00:55
unluckier	ATA over ethernet..	00:56
unluckier	layer violation much?	00:56
BCMM	in firewire, the hardware does a lof ot suff for itself, whereas in USB it's practically all done by the CPU	00:56
unluckier	but whatever work i guess.	00:56
BCMM	which makes the hardware cheaper until you realise you need a faster CPU	00:56
TiagoTiago	i've seen people using cat5 cables as USB extensions	00:56
*** RangerBob has quit IRC		00:56
luke-jr_	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_over_Ethernet	00:56
*** yofel_ has joined #maemo		00:56
luke-jr_	unluckier: I don't see how it's a layer violation	00:56
*** MadViking has quit IRC		00:57
nox-	unluckier, there also is iscsi...	00:57
BCMM	it's as if everybody is using winmodems now	00:57
TiagoTiago	from what've read it seems to work much better than official USB cables, and they are much cheaper for the meter	00:57
nox-	well said BCMM	00:57
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: USB uses basically twicer that of sata.	00:57
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: based on idle time and dd	00:58
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		00:58
*** yofel has quit IRC		00:58
unluckier	okay, it really is on the ethernet layer. so it isn't a layer violation, sry	00:58
*** yofel_ is now known as yofel		00:58
unluckier	still feels weird	00:58
luke-jr_	lol	00:58
TiagoTiago	why cable TV doesn't use plugs like thinnet?	00:59
dRbiG	yay, did my first .deb package and got myself screen working :)	00:59
TiagoTiago	yay!	00:59
*** zap has quit IRC		00:59
BCMM	USB is more popular than firewire primarily because Intel pushed it, which is unsurprising, since it encourages CPU upgrades	01:00
BCMM	dRbiG: GNU screen?	01:00
unluckier	screen? i want that too	01:01
BCMM	(the software that beat Windows' record for "most ambigious name")	01:02
GAN900	BCMM, well, that and it's cheaper since the controllers are much simpler.	01:02
TiagoTiago	lol	01:02
GAN900	Since it doesn't do much.	01:02
ShadowJK	the people who write firewire drivers say firewire is a nightmare	01:02
BCMM	GAN900: as i said, so are softmodems, but that doesn't mean people like them	01:02
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		01:02
unluckier	BCMM: dunno, there's also the added benefit of an abundance of really cheap devices.	01:02
BCMM	hmmm	01:03
ShadowJK	that helps any technology take off, abundance of cheap stuff :)	01:03
BCMM	i actually don't know how much difference it makes to the price of, say, a mass-storage device	01:03
dRbiG	BCMM: yes	01:03
*** S_WO has joined #maemo		01:03
TiagoTiago	what would happen if i wired a LED directly to the USB port of the N900?	01:03
dRbiG	screen 4.0.3	01:03
ShadowJK	TiagoTiago, depends on the led	01:04
BCMM	(since, unlike a PC, then don't already have a processor sitting around waiting to handle low-level protocol crap)	01:04
BCMM	TiagoTiago: and how you wire it :)	01:04
TiagoTiago	a 5mil hiugh intensity	01:04
ShadowJK	TiagoTiago, a Cree XRE/XPG or SSC P4 will probably blink briefly before N900 voltage booster shuts down due to overload	01:04
TiagoTiago	lets say i wire it in in the way the electricity flows	01:04
dRbiG	why would you want to wire a led to usb port? ;)	01:05
SpeedEvil	TiagoTiago: In principle, you coild - if you added a resisrtor - trurn it on and off using the vboost option.	01:05
TiagoTiago	blinkenlights :P	01:05
ShadowJK	a 5millimeter one is probably going to shine angry blue for a few seconds before popping, or N900 shutting off voltage	01:05
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		01:05
BCMM	dRbiG: awesome, are you putting it into a repo? i want screen	01:05
TiagoTiago	the N900 needs moar blinkenlights	01:05
BCMM	(see? like "windows", it makes me sound ungrammatical and cavemanish: "i want screen")	01:05
*** b0tz has quit IRC		01:05
dRbiG	BCMM: hmm, i'm not yet at the level of investigating methods of contributing stuff; i'm at the level of making stuff i need work	01:06
BCMM	fair enough	01:06
dRbiG	but i can put it on my server and give you a link to the plain .deb if you like	01:06
dRbiG	but no warranties, it start and seems to work :)	01:06
TiagoTiago	what does it do?	01:06
unluckier	dRbiG: does it have nethack mode? :)	01:07
dRbiG	TiagoTiago: enables you to have multiple terminal sessions	01:07
dRbiG	unluckier: it has all that a plain vanilla screen 4.0.3 has - no idea about nethack :)	01:07
TiagoTiago	without using the factory terminal emulator?	01:07
dRbiG	if it all works is another thing	01:07
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC		01:07
*** srw has quit IRC		01:07
dRbiG	TiagoTiago: in text mode :)	01:07
TiagoTiago	i see	01:07
TiagoTiago	handy	01:08
dRbiG	i wanted tmux	01:08
dRbiG	but i have some problems with glib	01:08
dRbiG	as usual, linux crap ;)	01:08
BCMM	TiagoTiago: basically, you run screen at the console or in xterm or something, and it gives you multiple virtual terminals you can use	01:08
TiagoTiago	oh, it's not actually multiple terminals, it's multiple terminals inside of a single terminal?	01:08
BCMM	TiagoTiago: so that you can use "ctrl-a space" a bit like alt-tab	01:08
dRbiG	for any hacking/developement i need to have more than one terminal session and i don't like having like 8x putty	01:08
dRbiG	screen is better way	01:08
BCMM	TiagoTiago: it's sorta like a window manager, for text mode	01:09
dRbiG	BCMM: tmux is more of a wm in ncurses	01:09
dRbiG	but as i said, to get tmux some work is actually needed	01:09
dRbiG	to be done on it	01:09
TiagoTiago	but it runs inside a terminal, like i could hit control-shift-x type screen, and in that single window there would be multiple terminals acessible?	01:09
BCMM	TiagoTiago: for example, you have vim open, you want to go and ls some dir somewhere, so you use the keyboard shortcut for a new "window", causing vim to vanish and a shell to appear	01:09
BCMM	then you can use another key combo to switch between that shell and your vim session	01:10
TiagoTiago	text based multitasking	01:10
BCMM	TiagoTiago: exactly	01:10
*** smooph1 has joined #maemo		01:10
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		01:10
BCMM	TiagoTiago: you can also close xterm, open a new xterm, and reconnect to your screen session with your stuff still running	01:11
BCMM	it is GREAT for ssh over an unreliable connection	01:11
TiagoTiago	that is awesmoe	01:11
dRbiG	it is a must have anywhere	01:11
dRbiG	my tmux sessions usually have uptime close to the server uptime :)	01:11
TiagoTiago	it kidna creates a server terminal output that you can connect to with multiple clients, or disconnect and keep it running	01:11
TiagoTiago	?	01:12
dRbiG	TiagoTiago: multiple clients at once only in tmux :)	01:12
*** smooph has quit IRC		01:12
dRbiG	screen is older	01:12
TiagoTiago	i see	01:12
dRbiG	and simpler	01:12
dRbiG	but it does the job well too	01:12
dRbiG	i'm just not sure if screen handles unicode	01:13
lindi-	dRbiG: screen -x allows multiple clients?	01:13
*** Guest38044 has joined #maemo		01:13
johnx	dRbiG, pretty sure it does	01:13
dRbiG	lindi-: maybe it does - i migareted from it to tmux about 1.5 year ago	01:13
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo		01:13
*** jpe has quit IRC		01:14
unluckier	oh, and also, you can let your irc session running on some computer whereever and achieve spectacular idle times!	01:14
*** jpe has joined #maemo		01:14
johnx	it does allow multiple clients of course	01:14
* DocScrutinizer pokes DocScrutinizer51		01:14
johnx	and searching in the scrollback	01:14
*** jpe has quit IRC		01:14
DocScrutinizer	no screen & irssi session though :-P	01:15
dRbiG	johnx: two or more clients connected to the same session?	01:15
*** BCMM_ has joined #maemo		01:15
* BCMM_ curses his wireless		01:15
johnx	dRbiG, of course. with different window sizes, updated in real time	01:15
*** BCMM has quit IRC		01:15
* johnx lives in screen all day		01:15
dRbiG	johnx: right. so same as tmux	01:15
*** BCMM_ is now known as BCMM		01:15
unluckier	dRbiG: BCMM really need his screen	01:15
BCMM	hah	01:16
dRbiG	johnx: oh, and unicode support?	01:16
BCMM	unluckier: i don't have anywhere with a better connection to run an irc client on	01:16
johnx	dRbiG, again, I'm almost positive it does. but I could check	01:16
unluckier	BCMM: oh.	01:16
BCMM	and i think screen can show more than one window at once, but i don't know how	01:16
dRbiG	johnx: if it does then i have no real need to put any effort into getting tmux on n900	01:16
BCMM	it's kinda like vim, in that it does a whole lot of cool thing, and i know how some of them work	01:17
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		01:17
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		01:17
dRbiG	johnx: hmm, utf8 doesn't seem to be available under screen on n900 - but the problem can be somewhere else, it's n900 :)	01:17
johnx	dRbiG, nevermind. guess it doesn't (at least in my config)	01:17
BCMM	"tmux is intended to be a modern, BSD-licensed alternative to programs such as GNU screen." (from the tmux website) - seems like they're pretty much equivalent	01:18
dRbiG	afir lack of unicode support was the main reason why i switched	01:18
*** smooph1 has quit IRC		01:18
*** smooph has joined #maemo		01:18
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		01:19
johnx	bummer	01:19
BCMM	dRbiG: man screen, specifically -U	01:19
*** b0tz has quit IRC		01:19
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		01:19
*** murrayc has quit IRC		01:19
BCMM	looks like unicode support is off by default, in case your terminal doesn't support it, but you can enable it with -U	01:19
dRbiG	BCMM: great, 'll check it	01:20
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:20
BCMM	dRbiG: i get the impression tmux exists primarly because it's really useful to have that sort of thing, and the BSD folk don't like having GNU screen	01:20
BCMM	"tmux is part of the OpenBSD base system."	01:21
unluckier	my client runs in screen.. give me unicode. ....	01:21
* DocScrutinizer picks up a screen session on a shell box, to see what's going on there since he left 3 weeks ago :-D		01:21
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:21
*** MadViking has quit IRC		01:21
dRbiG	BCMM: afair when tmux was started screen had no unicode, and tmux was rewritten from scratch and optimized, and yes it had BSD licences	01:21
dRbiG	which is very important in business world :)	01:22
unluckier	BCMM: oh, openbsd. yes, that explains a lot.	01:22
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo		01:22
dRbiG	screen -U and works! :D	01:22
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		01:22
dRbiG	great, now i can write all languages at once hehe	01:22
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:23
BCMM	dRbiG: i imagine you have a large number of bluetooth keyboard that you carry in a backpack	01:24
BCMM	in different alphabets	01:24
*** spinningcompass has joined #maemo		01:24
dRbiG	hehe, why would i need that, when i can simply switch the language in windows ;D	01:25
dRbiG	although i do miss the russian phonetic mapping available for X	01:25
*** Hilzu has quit IRC		01:25
dRbiG	much easier than their layout, well	01:26
DocScrutinizer	screen though has been developed 15km from here, will stay with screen and pass them a beer when I come along eventually. Who needs BSD licence?	01:26
dRbiG	:)	01:27
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:28
*** dvoid_ has quit IRC		01:28
BCMM	hmm	01:28
unluckier	DocScrutinizer: give them one from me too. ah, get them drunk and force them to defend their license choice =)	01:28
BCMM	does tmux do multiple connections?	01:28
BCMM	dRbiG: what's windows?	01:29
dRbiG	BCMM: windows, as in ms windows ;)	01:29
BCMM	heh, i remember windows	01:29
* DocScrutinizer opens windows to get some fresh air		01:30
dRbiG	DocScrutinizer: good idea	01:30
*** Hilzu has joined #maemo		01:31
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:31
*** SWFu has joined #maemo		01:33
*** SWFu has quit IRC		01:33
*** SWFu has joined #maemo		01:33
*** Hilzu has quit IRC		01:33
*** hurbu has quit IRC		01:34
*** Noma_ has quit IRC		01:34
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		01:34
*** petteri has quit IRC		01:34
*** drizztbsd has joined #maemo		01:35
jacktheripper	my first ever wiki edit is Solution #6 here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repartitioning_the_flash Can anyone check it and point me out if I've done something wrong ?	01:35
*** petteri has joined #maemo		01:35
*** Hilzu has joined #maemo		01:36
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		01:38
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:38
*** Noma_ has joined #maemo		01:39
*** b0tz has quit IRC		01:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:42
*** Hilzu has quit IRC		01:44
*** Hilzu has joined #maemo		01:44
jpinx-eeepc	in the n900, is there a keystroke combination that does the same as Alt-Tab to cycle through the windows?	01:44
TiagoTiago	is there a GUI for DOSBOX ont he N900 like there is on Windows?	01:44
ShadowJK	ctrl-backspace is closest	01:45
andre___	jpinx, no, only ctrl+backspace to get the list of apps, but no cycling	01:45
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC		01:45
MohammadAG	unless you install modified-hildon-desktop	01:45
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		01:46
DocScrutinizer	jpinx-eeepc: see matan's modified hildon-desktop	01:47
*** carloscesa has joined #maemo		01:47
jpinx-eeepc	DocScrutinizer: where do I see that?	01:47
DocScrutinizer	http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html	01:48
jpinx-eeepc	tks :)	01:48
*** larsivi has quit IRC		01:48
*** Hilzu has quit IRC		01:49
*** petteri has quit IRC		01:49
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:49
*** petteri has joined #maemo		01:49
*** Hilzu has joined #maemo		01:49
DocScrutinizer	jpinx-eeepc: /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav : ctrl+backspace behaves like alt-tab on desktop (at least on KDE). While ctrl is pressed, every press of backspace rotates the windows	01:49
DocScrutinizer	s/ : / : 5* /	01:50
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: jpinx-eeepc: /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav : 5* ctrl+backspace behaves like alt-tab on desktop (at least on KDE). While ctrl is pressed, every press of backspace rotates the windows	01:50
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, I wonder if we should make control panel applets of those	01:51
lcuk	to make setting them up easier	01:51
* DocScrutinizer mumbles "tweakr"		01:51
* MohammadAG wants to add portrait support to some stock apps		01:51
MohammadAG	control panel and modest would be two	01:52
lcuk	:) a modest patch would be awesome	01:52
MohammadAG	the control panel is open source right?	01:52
lcuk	i believe so	01:52
* DocScrutinizer wants to install mhd without losing SSU compatibility and cpu hog fix		01:52
lcuk	individual applets may not be	01:52
* crashanddie just spent the evening curing olives		01:52
lcuk	:) crashanddie	01:53
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		01:53
lcuk	anyway, for the second time tonight, gnite \o	01:53
crashanddie	'nite	01:53
crashanddie	We gathered 7kg worth of olives from the garden	01:53
SpeedEvil1	Fun.	01:54
*** florian has quit IRC		01:54
BCMM	modest would benefit greatly from portrait mode, especially for reading longs emails or looking down large folders	01:54
SpeedEvil1	I got 20Kg of rasps, 10Kg of assorted other mixed fruit, and 60Kg of apples.	01:54
TiagoTiago	tomorrow i gotta vote, i got no idea who is less worse, gonna probably vote null :(	01:54
BCMM	TiagoTiago: for what?	01:55
crashanddie	SpeedEvil1: I live in a city :P	01:55
crashanddie	SpeedEvil1: and olive trees that produce anything need to be at least 20-30 years old	01:55
SpeedEvil1	I know	01:55
DocScrutinizer	and the raspberry jam is AWESOME :-D	01:55
SpeedEvil1	:)	01:55
TiagoTiago	president, governor, and some and a couple senators or congresspeople	01:55
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:55
*** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil		01:56
BCMM	TiagoTiago: which country?	01:56
TiagoTiago	\s\and some and\and\	01:56
TiagoTiago	Brazil	01:56
crashanddie	thing is, it'll take about 2 to 3 months for the olives to be ready for consumption	01:56
TiagoTiago	what i did wrong witht he s thing there?	01:57
BCMM	crashanddie: what do you have to do to olives to make them edible?	01:57
TiagoTiago	let them piccle?	01:57
crashanddie	there's a few ways	01:57
BCMM	also, which part of the world do you live in?	01:57
crashanddie	south of france	01:57
crashanddie	BCMM: usually you have to let them "unbitter" in water or brine for a month	01:58
BCMM	all i have is a windowsill in a flat in the UK, but i grow chillis	01:58
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		01:58
* jpinx-eeepc grew olives in Spain...		01:58
BCMM	crashanddie: oh, there i was thinking they were always in brine to keep longer	01:58
*** jacktheripper has quit IRC		01:59
crashanddie	well, the brine prevents them from rotting I guess as well	01:59
*** shinkamui has joined #maemo		02:00
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		02:01
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:01
crashanddie	one third of the batch is being cured in brine, the other two thirds are in clear water	02:02
crashanddie	(and they're green olives)	02:02
*** wazd has quit IRC		02:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:03
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:05
SpeedEvil	Is pressing oil easy?	02:06
*** digitalsurgeon has left #maemo		02:06
crashanddie	no idea, never done that	02:06
*** Mozillion has quit IRC		02:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:07
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		02:07
crashanddie	not something I'm interested in anyway -- good oil requires very good olives and very good technique	02:08
*** n900evil has quit IRC		02:08
crashanddie	This is just for snacks and salads	02:08
*** jophish has quit IRC		02:08
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC		02:08
*** jpinx has quit IRC		02:09
*** Mozillion has joined #maemo		02:09
SpeedEvil	ah	02:09
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		02:09
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		02:11
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		02:11
*** Hilzu has quit IRC		02:11
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		02:11
*** sivang has joined #maemo		02:12
sivang	evening	02:12
sivang	is this a new thing for the device to have downloads.maemo.nokia.com instead of good 'o repository. ?	02:12
kthomas_vh	evening	02:12
sivang	hey kthomas_vh !	02:12
sivang	kthomas_vh: how you been?	02:12
kthomas_vh	howdy	02:12
kthomas_vh	buzy!	02:12
kthomas_vh	you?	02:13
crashanddie	"good 'o"?	02:13
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		02:13
sivang	crashanddie: well, what made a switch happen? is it the same? and while http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_FAQ#How_do_I_enable_extras.2C_extras-testing.2C_and_extras-devel_in_Scratchbox suggests using repo for sb, can I use d.m.n.c instead?	02:14
*** The\|Avatar has quit IRC		02:14
sivang	kthomas_vh: busy as well, but with scartchbox, c++, qt and a lot of Maemo :)	02:14
sivang	kthomas_vh: it was a long long weekend here so got a lot of time	02:14
crashanddie	I was questioning the spelling, not the accuracy.	02:14
sivang	crashanddie: oh :)	02:15
sivang	crashanddie: good old, in a shortened, sothern accent way	02:15
crashanddie	"good ol'", then, not "good 'o"	02:15
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		02:16
crashanddie	or "good ole"	02:16
kthomas_vh	sivang, unfortunately, here, tasks tend to eat up time :)	02:16
sivang	kthomas_vh: may I ask what's your trade?	02:16
*** Hilzu has joined #maemo		02:16
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:17
BCMM	SpeedEvil: i don't know about olive oil production either, but it must be pretty labour-intensive, since i've seen people use camels to do the grinding bit	02:17
sivang	crashanddie: I found, so it is still using repo for only for non nokia stuff, or apps that are part of the SSU, I guess it always was llike this, and adding them to sb will make no sense because it is rare they will have sources published at that repo etc.	02:18
crashanddie	sivang: that would be my suspicion as well.	02:18
kthomas_vh	sivang, I have a few hats, but mostly these days for $ I program the hard parts of Drupal websites, and provide Drupal consulting	02:19
johnx	kthomas_vh, fun, fun. :) I bet that's fun about half the time and maddening the other half	02:19
*** BabelO has quit IRC		02:19
kthomas_vh	johnx, that's probably the actual ration	02:20
kthomas_vh	*ratio; more often than not, maddening seems more than 3/4ths	02:20
johnx	well, you have clients thrown in. most of my drupal work is internal to one company and I get to do the 'simple' drupal stuff as well	02:21
sivang	kthomas_vh: ah right you told me already, so you worked during the holiday?	02:21
sivang	kthomas_vh: php.... I used to work for Zend once	02:22
kthomas_vh	sivang, I tried to avoid any task that I considered actual work, but ...	02:22
kthomas_vh	well...	02:22
sivang	crashanddie: I wonder if it is possible to get the media player source off the apps SSU etc, probably not	02:23
crashanddie	nope	02:23
sivang	:)	02:23
kthomas_vh	we had actually just finished a project in the US, with was a bear at the end, so I was mostly wiped out from that	02:23
sivang	is it based on/open progam?	02:23
sivang	kthomas_vh: ah.. bear?	02:24
crashanddie	Don't think so	02:24
*** petteri has quit IRC		02:24
*** Hilzu has quit IRC		02:24
kthomas_vh	difficult; subversion repo was down for more than 12 of the final hours, for instance	02:24
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:24
*** Noma_ has quit IRC		02:24
sivang	kthomas_vh: oh bad, you should have failovers	02:24
kthomas_vh	I'll try to get the project manager to convey that to the government entity we were working for :P	02:25
*** Hilzu has joined #maemo		02:25
sivang	kthomas_vh: and the repo replicated over them	02:25
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:27
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		02:27
*** jpinx has joined #maemo		02:27
sivang	crashanddie: they are also protected by a password that the on device HAM/apt uses to access. odd	02:28
*** mikhas has joined #maemo		02:29
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo		02:29
*** petteri has joined #maemo		02:29
crashanddie	kthomas_vh: the project manager shouldn't be the one designing redundancy. If he is, you're at one helluva shit company.	02:29
kthomas_vh	crashanddie, heh	02:29
kthomas_vh	I've seen worse	02:30
*** Erod has quit IRC		02:30
kthomas_vh	in this case, we're subcontracting to a gov't department	02:30
kthomas_vh	their sysadmins design systems (or not)	02:30
kthomas_vh	we take what we get and have no rel'n except through the PM	02:30
sivang	oh they're the best-	02:30
sivang	they like to have meeting on top of meetings on top of meetings.	02:30
*** Bash has joined #maemo		02:31
sivang	;)	02:31
kthomas_vh	can we have a meeting about that?	02:31
sivang	kthomas_vh: excatly/1	02:31
*** Noma_ has joined #maemo		02:31
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		02:31
sivang	kthomas_vh: I was once having 3 weeks in a row of meeting to convince the PM that we can port or find better version and support of stuff in Monta Vista in plain Debian	02:31
kthomas_vh	yick	02:32
*** bsh_nohghligh has quit IRC		02:32
crashanddie	I was had 2 months of waiting for a 5 day development	02:33
crashanddie	s/was/once	02:33
*** MadViking has quit IRC		02:34
crashanddie	"Client hasn't paid the bills"	02:34
kthomas_vh	heh	02:34
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		02:34
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		02:35
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		02:35
kthomas_vh	that's better than continuing to work for a client who will never pay, I guess	02:35
crashanddie	well, when you look at the credit lines our companies used to have, we were surprised they ever paid	02:35
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:35
kthomas_vh	ha	02:35
crashanddie	A big british telecom company once had over 3M pounds in credit.	02:35
kthomas_vh	with your employer? could be reasonable, could be not	02:36
crashanddie	and that was just the software, hardware they usually paid for promptly	02:36
kthomas_vh	ah	02:36
* kthomas_vh feels a US joke coming on		02:37
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:37
crashanddie	I got nothing.	02:37
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:37
* DocScrutinizer51 is watchin Brazil :-)		02:39
*** Dini has quit IRC		02:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:41
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:42
*** andre___ has quit IRC		02:42
kerio	Brazil is great	02:43
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC		02:43
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		02:44
*** RangerBob has joined #maemo		02:44
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		02:45
*** cehteh has quit IRC		02:46
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		02:48
*** cehteh has joined #maemo		02:49
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:49
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		02:49
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		02:51
*** RangerBob has quit IRC		03:01
*** SWFu has quit IRC		03:03
*** djdm has joined #maemo		03:03
*** trbs has joined #maemo		03:04
*** BCMM has quit IRC		03:04
*** benh has joined #maemo		03:05
*** Rarok has quit IRC		03:07
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		03:08
*** davyg has quit IRC		03:15
*** fecub has quit IRC		03:15
*** carloscesa has quit IRC		03:16
*** ToJa92 has quit IRC		03:16
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		03:16
*** benh has quit IRC		03:19
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		03:19
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		03:21
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		03:29
*** sivang has quit IRC		03:30
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		03:30
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC		03:31
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		03:32
*** TheXception is now known as TheXception\|off		03:33
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		03:33
*** jrocha has quit IRC		03:34
*** smooph1 has joined #maemo		03:34
*** trbs has quit IRC		03:36
*** smooph has quit IRC		03:36
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		03:40
*** LjL has quit IRC		03:41
*** TheNewAndy has joined #maemo		03:42
*** mc_teo`` has quit IRC		03:43
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		03:46
*** shinkamui has quit IRC		03:51
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		03:52
*** b0tz has quit IRC		03:54
*** Dr_Nobu has joined #maemo		03:54
*** TermanaDesire has joined #maemo		03:56
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		03:57
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:03
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		04:03
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		04:03
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:04
*** gomiam has quit IRC		04:05
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		04:05
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		04:06
*** smooph has joined #maemo		04:06
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:06
*** TeringTuby has quit IRC		04:08
*** smooph1 has quit IRC		04:08
*** marnanel has quit IRC		04:09
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		04:10
*** marnanel has joined #maemo		04:10
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		04:11
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:15
*** marnanel has quit IRC		04:16
*** marnanel has joined #maemo		04:16
*** abner has quit IRC		04:16
*** vivijim` has quit IRC		04:16
*** raster has quit IRC		04:18
*** abner has joined #maemo		04:18
*** geaaru has quit IRC		04:19
*** vivijim has joined #maemo		04:20
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:20
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:23
*** valgrind has quit IRC		04:25
TiagoTiago	What is "toggle composite mode" control-shift-N ?	04:27
*** Bash has quit IRC		04:27
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC		04:28
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:28
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:29
*** Bash has joined #maemo		04:31
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		04:32
*** smooph1 has joined #maemo		04:35
*** smooph has quit IRC		04:36
*** TermanaDesire has quit IRC		04:36
*** pinheiro_ has joined #maemo		04:37
*** pinheiro has quit IRC		04:37
* ieatlint always liked the man pages for true and false: "true - do nothing, successfully" and "false - do nothing, unsuccessfully"		04:37
TiagoTiago	lol	04:38
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:39
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		04:44
*** mikhas has quit IRC		04:47
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		04:49
*** Bash1 has joined #maemo		04:51
*** Bash has quit IRC		04:51
*** olebrom has quit IRC		04:54
*** smooph has joined #maemo		04:55
DocScrutinizer	: is even better, it doesn't even have a manpage	04:56
*** smooph1 has quit IRC		04:57
*** coffeecat has joined #maemo		05:01
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:01
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo		05:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:02
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		05:02
*** githogori has quit IRC		05:02
*** olebrom has joined #maemo		05:04
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:05
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:06
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:07
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		05:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:08
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:10
*** pinheiro_ has quit IRC		05:16
*** MadViking has quit IRC		05:16
*** pinheiro_ has joined #maemo		05:16
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		05:17
*** pinheiro__ has joined #maemo		05:17
*** spinningcompass has quit IRC		05:17
*** bmidgley has joined #maemo		05:18
*** smooph1 has joined #maemo		05:19
*** smooph has quit IRC		05:19
*** pinheiro_ has quit IRC		05:21
*** jpinx has quit IRC		05:22
*** unluckier has quit IRC		05:24
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:24
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:25
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:26
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:26
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:26
*** MadViking has quit IRC		05:26
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC		05:27
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		05:27
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:29
*** githogori has joined #maemo		05:32
*** MadViking has quit IRC		05:33
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:33
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		05:34
*** smooph has joined #maemo		05:37
*** Tscheesy has quit IRC		05:38
*** smooph1 has quit IRC		05:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:43
*** MadViking has quit IRC		05:43
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:44
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:44
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		05:45
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:48
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:55
*** smooph1 has joined #maemo		05:56
*** smooph has quit IRC		05:58
*** hcm_ has joined #maemo		05:58
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		05:59
*** hcm has quit IRC		06:00
*** dockane has joined #maemo		06:00
*** felipec has quit IRC		06:00
*** smooph1 has left #maemo		06:02
*** ZogG has quit IRC		06:03
*** dockane_ has quit IRC		06:03
*** johnx has quit IRC		06:05
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		06:05
*** johnx has joined #maemo		06:05
*** MadViking has quit IRC		06:06
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		06:07
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		06:08
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		06:09
*** OptX_Work has quit IRC		06:09
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		06:10
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		06:11
*** OptX_Work has joined #maemo		06:12
*** cotigao has joined #maemo		06:13
*** DerSaidin has quit IRC		06:14
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		06:14
*** ZogG has joined #maemo		06:14
*** Bash1 has quit IRC		06:16
*** MadViking has quit IRC		06:19
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		06:20
*** cotigao has quit IRC		06:20
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		06:23
*** celesteh has quit IRC		06:28
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		06:35
*** TiagoTiago has quit IRC		06:36
*** MadViking has quit IRC		06:37
*** ZogG has quit IRC		06:37
*** ZogG has joined #maemo		06:38
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		06:38
*** cotigao has joined #maemo		06:43
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		06:46
*** MadViking has quit IRC		06:46
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		06:47
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		06:48
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		06:50
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		06:50
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		06:50
*** celesteh has quit IRC		06:52
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		06:55
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:00
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:05
*** doc\|home has joined #maemo		07:06
*** doc\|home has joined #maemo		07:06
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		07:08
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:10
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		07:11
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:11
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		07:18
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		07:20
*** MadViking has quit IRC		07:24
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		07:25
*** nox- has quit IRC		07:29
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:30
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		07:32
*** DocScrutinizer2 has joined #maemo		07:34
*** DocScrutinizer2 has quit IRC		07:34
*** DocScrutinizer2 has joined #maemo		07:34
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC		07:34
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:35
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		07:35
luke-jr_	hmm	07:36
luke-jr_	possible to get Maemo to write video/audio uncompressed?	07:36
luke-jr_	or at least close?	07:36
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:40
cehteh	luke-jr: audio for sure, video likely never	07:41
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:41
cehteh	the fcam drivers dont include video right? .. and i suspect the video processing is already done in the cameras firmware and the bandwidth of the platform wont allow uncompressed video	07:42
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:44
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		07:45
*** MadViking has quit IRC		07:47
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		07:48
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:49
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		07:51
luke-jr_	cehteh: MJPEG? DV?	07:53
cehteh	its mjpeg isnt it?	07:55
luke-jr_	I thought it was MPEG-4	07:55
cehteh	i dont know any mobile camera which does DV	07:55
luke-jr_	DV format, not physicla DV :P	07:56
*** spinningcompass has joined #maemo		07:56
luke-jr_	N900 has 148 extra pixels to the width than my DV camcorder	07:56
cehteh	ah it is mpeg4	07:56
luke-jr_	and the latter has stuck pixels	07:56
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:56
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		07:57
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:00
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:01
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:02
*** spinningcompass has quit IRC		08:04
*** delt_zZzZ is now known as delt		08:07
*** spinningcompass has joined #maemo		08:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:11
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC		08:14
*** sheepbat has quit IRC		08:14
*** hannesw has quit IRC		08:14
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo		08:15
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		08:17
*** TermanaN900 has joined #maemo		08:18
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		08:21
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:23
*** Suiseiseki has quit IRC		08:27
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo		08:28
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC		08:30
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:31
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:32
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo		08:38
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:40
*** Suiseiseki has joined #maemo		08:40
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		08:40
*** sandwitch has quit IRC		08:41
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:44
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:44
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC		08:45
*** wazd has joined #maemo		08:45
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		08:46
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:47
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		08:49
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		08:51
*** aloril has quit IRC		08:52
*** beford has quit IRC		08:53
*** hardaker has quit IRC		08:56
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		09:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:03
*** DerSaidin has joined #maemo		09:05
*** DerSaidin has quit IRC		09:05
*** DerSaidin has joined #maemo		09:05
*** aloril has joined #maemo		09:06
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		09:10
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo		09:14
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:14
*** cotigao has quit IRC		09:15
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		09:16
*** benh has joined #maemo		09:18
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		09:18
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		09:21
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:23
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:24
*** ad-n770 has joined #maemo		09:26
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:32
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:32
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		09:34
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:34
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:36
*** sandwitch has joined #maemo		09:37
*** juk has joined #maemo		09:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:39
*** avs has joined #maemo		09:39
juk	I can't change to environment sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first	09:40
juk	what did I do?	09:40
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		09:41
*** K0JIbKA has joined #maemo		09:41
juk	I can't change to environment sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first	09:41
juk	what did I do?	09:41
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:43
*** juk has left #maemo		09:43
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		09:45
*** benh has quit IRC		09:46
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo		09:47
*** juk_ has joined #maemo		09:47
*** mreggen has quit IRC		09:48
*** sandwitch has quit IRC		09:49
*** sven-tek has joined #maemo		09:49
juk_	Hi, I can't change to environment sb-conf: You must close your other S	09:49
juk_	cratchbox sessions first	09:50
juk_	MohammadAG51: Hi, I can't change to environment sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first	09:51
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:52
juk_	And non-ascii chars inside scratchbox not displaying, I can't input them either	09:52
*** trumee has joined #maemo		09:53
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		09:54
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:54
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		09:55
juk_	!ops	09:56
juk_	Hi, I can't change to environment sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first	09:56
juk_	And non-ascii chars inside scratchbox not displaying, I can't input them either	09:56
juk_	hopeless	09:58
*** juk_ has quit IRC		09:58
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		09:58
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		10:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		10:02
*** MaSlaff has joined #maemo		10:03
*** mreggen has joined #maemo		10:05
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC		10:05
MaSlaff	Hello! Here speak Russian?	10:06
*** redeeman has quit IRC		10:06
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		10:08
*** davyg has joined #maemo		10:08
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		10:09
MaSlaff	Here is who speaks Russian? I do not speak English!	10:09
*** Matrix has joined #maemo		10:09
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		10:10
*** Matrix has left #maemo		10:10
MaSlaff	Русские! Ёба! Вы где?	10:11
haltdef	no	10:11
haltdef	your english seems fine to me	10:11
*** cfreak200 has quit IRC		10:15
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle		10:15
MaSlaff	I want to ask about the smb protocol to n900.	10:15
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		10:16
MaSlaff	Port TinySmb support server only	10:16
*** cfreak200 has joined #maemo		10:16
*** ad-n770 has quit IRC		10:17
MaSlaff	I want full support samba on n900. Or other local-net protocol/	10:17
*** hannesw has quit IRC		10:18
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		10:18
MaSlaff	Is this possible?	10:19
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		10:20
MaSlaff	haltdef, hey!	10:21
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		10:21
johnx	it would be possible to package samba, but no one has done it yet I think	10:21
*** Scifi has joined #maemo		10:22
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		10:22
MaSlaff	But there are able to compile from source? And do not wait for release ported version.	10:24
johnx	yes. you could compile samba from source if you setup the maemo sdk	10:25
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		10:27
MaSlaff	And there is not any problems with this setup, without special porting in maemo 5?	10:29
*** mw22 has quit IRC		10:33
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		10:33
MaSlaff	What is the porting of any software in maemo5? Porting GUI and compilation Deb package for maemo? And only?	10:36
*** Scifi has quit IRC		10:36
MaSlaff	Or need to edit the source?	10:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		10:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		10:42
*** wazd has quit IRC		10:46
*** guardian has joined #maemo		10:48
*** hannesw has quit IRC		10:49
johnx	MaSlaff, I don't know if it the source will need to be modified. It might. It might not.	10:49
johnx	the only way to know is to try.	10:49
MaSlaff	Ok, thanks! I will try.	10:53
*** booiiing has quit IRC		10:53
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		10:53
*** MaSlaff has quit IRC		10:57
*** TermanaN900 has quit IRC		10:58
*** TermanaDesire has joined #maemo		10:59
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		10:59
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:08
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:09
*** Jucato has quit IRC		11:09
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		11:09
*** Neolink has joined #maemo		11:09
*** sheepbat has quit IRC		11:11
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:12
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:13
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:15
*** Wamanuz has joined #maemo		11:17
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		11:17
*** Neolink has quit IRC		11:18
*** booiiing has joined #maemo		11:18
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		11:19
*** lmoura__ has joined #maemo		11:27
*** lmoura_ has quit IRC		11:28
*** b0tz has quit IRC		11:29
*** Xisdibik has quit IRC		11:32
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:32
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:33
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC		11:33
*** raster has joined #maemo		11:34
*** bbee has quit IRC		11:37
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:37
*** bbee has joined #maemo		11:38
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		11:40
*** frade has quit IRC		11:42
*** hurbu has joined #maemo		11:43
*** TheXception\|off is now known as TheXception		11:44
*** cotigao has joined #maemo		11:47
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:49
*** delt is now known as delt_zZzZ		11:51
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:52
*** FireFly has quit IRC		11:54
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo		11:54
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC		11:54
*** Wamanuz has quit IRC		11:55
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:55
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		11:56
*** Juozapas has joined #maemo		11:58
*** guardian_ has joined #maemo		11:58
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		11:59
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo		11:59
Juozapas	hi why in n900 if sms just received and i press on/off button it doesnt show notification icon at the bottom of the clock ?	12:00
*** guardian has quit IRC		12:00
*** guardian_ is now known as guardian		12:00
*** rcg has joined #maemo		12:02
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		12:03
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:03
*** choppa has joined #maemo		12:04
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		12:07
*** ZenimNL has joined #maemo		12:08
*** jophish has joined #maemo		12:09
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:09
*** SWFu has joined #maemo		12:13
*** rcg has joined #maemo		12:13
*** timeless_pidgin has joined #maemo		12:13
*** rcg has quit IRC		12:14
*** TermanaDesire has quit IRC		12:15
*** sge has quit IRC		12:16
*** dvoid_ has joined #maemo		12:18
*** Guest10294 has joined #maemo		12:18
*** sge has joined #maemo		12:20
*** jophish has quit IRC		12:20
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		12:20
*** jophish has joined #maemo		12:20
*** TermanaN900 has joined #maemo		12:20
* timeless_pidgin grumbles		12:21
timeless_pidgin	The wifi here has a "you can't spell" dns feature enabled	12:21
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo		12:21
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		12:23
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:25
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		12:28
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		12:28
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		12:28
kerio	timeless_pidgin: lrn2level3/gdns	12:29
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo		12:30
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:31
*** smooph has joined #maemo		12:31
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:32
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:36
* Jaffa 's Maemo Development of the day is done: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2010/10/03/here_and_now_what_s_on_near_you_now		12:37
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		12:37
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC		12:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:40
*** tackat has joined #maemo		12:41
timeless_pidgin	Kerio : ever tried that w/ an n900?	12:41
*** BabelO has joined #maemo		12:42
kerio	hmm... i did not?	12:42
timeless_pidgin	Especially when dealing w/ lots of random cellular providers. Plus one vpn	12:42
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:42
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:43
dRbiG	hmm anyone knows what scripts n900's ash reads on start?	12:43
dRbiG	.profile on login	12:43
dRbiG	and what will it read as an rc file? .ashrc? .shrc?	12:44
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		12:46
dRbiG	nvm, got it ;)	12:48
*** Rarok has joined #maemo		12:49
*** sivang has joined #maemo		12:49
sivang	morning all	12:49
Jaffa	10 pages in to "unread fora of interest" on tmo and nothing of interest yet.	12:49
sivang	~tmo	12:49
infobot	methinks tmo is http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic	12:49
sivang	I found out the missing 3G internet connection- it somehow switched names with the MMS connection and the "3G Internet" vanished when I removed fMMS	12:50
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		12:51
sivang	still that priority for it is low, which I would fix using gconftool-2 so it will appear first when choosing network connectio and no other better wifis are around	12:51
*** pinheiro__ has quit IRC		12:51
sivang	I think this is a general bug with the lists or gconf storage,	12:51
sivang	this also happens with contacts after the update	12:51
sivang	very odd	12:51
*** pinheiro__ has joined #maemo		12:51
sivang	So I got and SMS, from a number not in the contacts, and number which has a contact entry lost it's contact name, the former took its name and i had to manually change it but it is still switchign the names occassionally	12:52
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo		12:53
timeless_pidgin	Keep in mind that breaking .profile will probably mostly brick your device	12:53
*** marcels has joined #maemo		12:54
sivang	timeless_pidgin: I don't think I've touched it, but the backup restoration probably does?	12:54
sivang	timeless_pidgin: never the less, the pr1.2 although not smooth and perfect made some rather annoying issues better	12:56
sivang	and modest at least seems to be fetching messages quicker and not hang	12:56
timeless_pidgin	Jaffa: can i install here-and-now from extras?	12:56
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: -devel atm	12:56
timeless_pidgin	Sivang : i have to catch a train in less than an hour.	12:56
sivang	timeless_pidgin: need help with maps and stuff? :)	12:57
*** pupnik has quit IRC		12:57
timeless_pidgin	Last travel day, train takes me to airport. Airport takes me home	12:57
timeless_pidgin	Kinda anyway	12:57
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: If it works for anyone else, I'll promote to -testing	12:57
timeless_pidgin	Trying to grab it now	12:57
timeless_pidgin	Did you use their name?	12:58
timeless_pidgin	I'd hope they tm'd the name...	12:58
timeless_pidgin	If so, -1 for name theft :)	12:58
*** terbo has joined #maemo		12:59
*** Freak5 has joined #maemo		12:59
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: It's their service ;-p	12:59
*** terbo has left #maemo		12:59
Corsac	seems it works for me	12:59
Corsac	though it's a bit disapointing to see it's just a web service in the end :)	13:00
sivang	Jaffa: you've ported the N8 code or wrote something from scratch for N900?	13:00
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: TM infringement would be if I was using it for something else ;-)	13:00
Freak5	Are there still new mobiles using maemo? The nokia N900 changed to megoo didn`t it? (is meego as good as maemo, does it have a bash shell?)	13:00
Corsac	and it's not exactly precise, it gives me movies not really near me	13:00
sivang	this is exactly what Lonely Planet does on N97mini	13:00
Jaffa	sivang: I reverse engineered the URL it opens on an N8 and used a dbus call from a shell script to get the same info on Maemo, then another dbus call to open the browser	13:00
sivang	so they have their own service now?	13:00
Freak5	Since it should be possible to compile bash applications, is there any smartphone, which owns an USB-Host?	13:01
MohammadAG	Jaffa, worksforme :)	13:01
Jaffa	Freak5: The N8 can do USB host.	13:01
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:01
MohammadAG	OTG*	13:01
Jaffa	True	13:01
timeless_pidgin	Jaffa : like Youtube and Gmail	13:01
sivang	Jaffa: reverese engineered the URL? :)	13:01
sivang	Jaffa: is the N8 released already?	13:01
MohammadAG	the N900 can do USB host mode, kinda iffy at the moment	13:01
*** Zuccace has joined #maemo		13:02
Jaffa	sivang: http://ics.svc.ovi.com/ics/app?page=livestream/herenow&service=page&mcc=234&mnc=15&cmcc=234&cmnc=15&cid=37032&bear=&lac=177&language=1&width=800&height=480&tz=p0100&vejr=HN_S60_2.0 for example.	13:02
*** Zucca has quit IRC		13:03
sivang	Jaffa: thanks, location stuff is interesting.	13:03
timeless_pidgin	Jaffa : +1 for sticking it in the location and navigation category	13:03
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: :-)	13:03
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:03
timeless_pidgin	But you seem to have recycled a browser window -10 f9r that	13:03
timeless_pidgin	Please get your own window	13:03
sivang	timeless_pidgin: it helps on the N900 :)	13:04
MohammadAG	Jaffa, push it into -testing, it has my vote :)	13:04
sivang	Jaffa: OVI has so many faces...	13:04
*** terbo has joined #maemo		13:04
sivang	huh? :) http://ics.svc.ovi.com/ics/app?page=travel31/LonelyPoiOverview&service=page&language=1&entryPoint=5&geox=-1.275&geoy=52.315&language=1&countrycode=GB&metric=1&mcc=234&cmcc=234&tz=p0100	13:05
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:05
timeless_pidgin	Jaffa : web title (because they're idiots) is "Here and now"	13:05
timeless_pidgin	Not title caps	13:05
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: What's the DBUS call for new window? I couldn't get it reliably when writing it on the train	13:06
timeless_pidgin	Ask sp3000	13:06
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo		13:06
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:07
timeless_pidgin	Please add a line to long description clarifying that the app just launches nokia's thing	13:07
timeless_pidgin	That satisfies my first objection	13:07
sivang	timeless_pidgin: "connects to Nokia's web site for the service"	13:07
sivang	Jaffa: it's nice, wonder why LP or here and now is not in N900 officially	13:08
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:08
sivang	where do I vote? ;)	13:08
*** trumee is now known as zzztrumee		13:08
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: I'll add a further clarification	13:08
Jaffa	sivang: I'm going to the tip now; will fix browser window reuse, remove extraneous UUID from URL and further disclaim in the description when I get back	13:09
*** zzztrumee is now known as trumee		13:09
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		13:09
sivang	Jaffa: great, you ahve my vote as well	13:10
sivang	Jaffa: would be nice if you could publish your findings for how the URL is constructed :-p	13:10
Jaffa	sivang: Read /usr/bin/here-and-now. It's pretty trivial; but I'll do a follow up blog post ;-)	13:11
Freak5	MohammadAG: But when I try to use the USB host of the N900 I need an external power source and an selfbuild adapter, don't I?	13:12
sivang	Jaffa: great :)	13:13
TermanaN900	Freak5, you dont need a selfbuilt adapter, you can buy the adapters from ebay	13:14
*** avs has quit IRC		13:14
Freak5	TermanaN900: But I still need external power to activate the mode, don't I?	13:15
MohammadAG	not for a flash drive	13:15
Freak5	So you mean a non standard adapter, too	13:15
Freak5	??	13:15
MohammadAG	or a 2.4GHz mouse transceiver	13:15
MohammadAG	or a hub with both of those	13:15
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:15
MohammadAG	or a hub with a 2.4GHz t., a keyboard, and a flash drive	13:16
Freak5	The internetsources I found told me that the USB-Host mode is only activated if I get external power, because the N900 doesn't deliver any power	13:16
*** timeless_pidgin has quit IRC		13:16
MohammadAG	it can deliver 200mA @ 5V	13:17
MohammadAG	you read the wrong sources	13:17
*** TiagoTiago has joined #maemo		13:17
Freak5	When it can do that what is the problem with its USB-Host again?	13:17
TiagoTiago	hi	13:17
lcuk	Jaffa, where did you get the here and now icon from?	13:17
*** smooph1 has joined #maemo		13:17
sivang	hmm, is it known that SB should fail with no HALD on ubuntu 10.04.1 ?	13:17
*** timeless_pidgin has joined #maemo		13:17
lcuk	the nokia service is awesome btw	13:18
lcuk	thanks for making it accessible	13:18
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:18
MohammadAG	Freak5, read http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=824197&postcount=218	13:18
Freak5	Because if the N900 can use a keyboard or a flashdrive while acting as a host, I am quite confident so use my AVR ISP ^^	13:18
TiagoTiago	just a quick question, is there any way i can boost the builtin speakers of my N900, other than modifying the hardware?	13:18
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		13:18
lcuk	TiagoTiago, bat ears	13:19
TiagoTiago	lol	13:19
TermanaN900	TiagoTiago, modify the limit in the kernel, if it works anything like QSD boards	13:19
lcuk	the sound from the speakers comes out sideways	13:19
lcuk	find a way to cup the sound and deflect it towards your face and ears	13:19
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo		13:19
lcuk	ie, add a pair of batears to the sides	13:20
lcuk	and the ound will be louder	13:20
lcuk	i promise	13:20
TiagoTiago	it's quite dispointing my old N73 sounds louder and better than my expensive N900 :(	13:20
*** smooph has quit IRC		13:20
lcuk	where are the speakers on the n73?	13:21
MohammadAG	top and bottom	13:21
MohammadAG	but the N73 had epic speakers	13:21
MohammadAG	imo the best speakers were on the N73, N95, and the 5800	13:22
TiagoTiago	why did Nokia not give the N900 similar awesomeness?	13:22
lcuk	TiagoTiago, N900 has awesomeness in other areas	13:23
MohammadAG	well	13:23
psycho_oreos	probably because N900 was targeted for niche market	13:23
MohammadAG	anyone willing to take one for the team?	13:23
MohammadAG	play around with CONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6"	13:23
TiagoTiago	they ran out of money in the budget?	13:23
MohammadAG	your speakers might implode or such	13:23
Freak5	Are you the MohammadAG mentioned in that post? Sounds quite cool, although I am not as confident anymore that the programmer works, since it doesn't even work when using windows, so why should it work when the Host itself is not rly stable.	13:24
Freak5	Just one last question. Is this bounded to maemo or could I use it when using meego, since that seems to be the new OS on the phone(I should get some information about reinstalling the OS when playing around like that, anyhow...)	13:24
MohammadAG	anyone who wants to have a go, use flasher-3.5 --boot="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6"	13:24
Freak5	It is a kernel update, so there is no chance for meego, sin'tit?	13:24
MohammadAG	play with the sound limits or so	13:24
MohammadAG	again, speakers might be damaged on the HW level	13:25
TiagoTiago	there isn't a hardware limitator?	13:25
MohammadAG	Freak5, it's a custom kernel, it's prealpha, it's not a proper release yet so I won't go around checking the differences between both 2.6.28 and 2.6.35	13:25
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:26
Freak5	thx	13:26
MohammadAG	TiagoTiago, not sure, in nitdroid the speakers are louder and have more bass, which might be causing damage to the N900s in the long run	13:26
MohammadAG	Freak5, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824298	13:26
kerio	MohammadAG: MNZ was working on a good equalizer/filter	13:27
MohammadAG	kerio, was? I thought he's still working on it	13:27
TiagoTiago	do you know where i can find a comparison of the specs of the speakers on the N900 and the N73?	13:27
kerio	gerund	13:27
kerio		13:27
TiagoTiago	lol	13:27
kerio	fucking tenses, how do they work	13:28
lcuk	http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1234052384/for-you-followers-of-the-ryder-cup	13:28
lcuk	golfing humour :D	13:28
*** TermanaN900 has quit IRC		13:29
TiagoTiago	i wish i knew how to speak (and understand) lojban, same for most of the people i chat with	13:29
kerio	[xkcd here]	13:30
*** zap has joined #maemo		13:30
TiagoTiago	heh	13:32
*** terbo has quit IRC		13:35
RST38h	http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2010/10/bscoutswh.jpg	13:35
*** choppa has quit IRC		13:35
TiagoTiago	is that for real?	13:36
*** Termana has joined #maemo		13:37
RST38h	yes	13:37
TiagoTiago	Where can i read about how Nokia came to the decision of cripling the audio n the N900 to help increase it's durability? Or they haven't talked about it openlly?	13:38
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC		13:38
Freak5	When playing around with the Software of the N900 I can't screw it in a way that I can't reflash it anymore, can I?	13:39
sivang	Freak5: not if you don't screw the battery, I think	13:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:39
Freak5	So I will always be able to turn it of, connect it, pres U and install a new OS...	13:39
Freak5	ok	13:39
TiagoTiago	I guess you should expect anything positive from such a perverted backwards thinking hypocrit organization	13:40
Freak5	I just never flashed a smartphone and was not sure if there is a Bios/OS-connection somehow.	13:40
Freak5	Like this new Bios Updates for computers which are installable while you are running Vista	13:40
TiagoTiago	Freak5 you depending on what you do you could physicly brick your device using software	13:40
psycho_oreos	the BIOS for n900 would be the NOLO	13:41
Freak5	I meant like just breaking the kernel ^^	13:41
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:41
MohammadAG	just added portrait mode support to modest's code, seems to work ok, except for text in the buttons realigning	13:41
BCMM	MohammadAG: for some reason, I find the CD burner thing hilarious	13:41
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		13:41
BCMM	good job :)	13:41
BCMM	i think it's because a CD drive is so much bigger than an n900, or something	13:41
MohammadAG	:D	13:42
*** timeless_pidgin has quit IRC		13:42
BCMM	anyway, you have finally obsoleted all laptops, nice	13:42
* MohammadAG goes to find an i7 to USB converter		13:42
BCMM	MohammadAG: what's an i7 when it isn't a processor?	13:43
*** OptX_Work has quit IRC		13:43
Freak5	Sry for my endless questions, but how often does the phone function on your phones actually work when you play around with them? Is that part that stable that it always works or is it a kind of extra on this mini computer which often doesn't?	13:43
MohammadAG	BCMM, a processor :p	13:43
TiagoTiago	from what i heard about the "boyscouts of america", kids are no safer with them than with a convent of psychopath pedophile priests	13:43
*** TheNewAndy has quit IRC		13:43
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		13:44
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:44
MohammadAG	wtf @ quit message	13:44
*** Bash has joined #maemo		13:44
BCMM	one can hope he's using that as an adjective rather than a verb	13:44
TiagoTiago	lol	13:45
SpeedEvil	Freak5: It's worked OK for all my calls.	13:45
SpeedEvil	Freak5: But I have made 2 and recieved 3.	13:45
SpeedEvil	Sorry. Received 4.	13:46
TiagoTiago	i've had no issues with the phone itself, but somtimes when other thoings are freezing the OS the phone program struggles	13:46
Freak5	^^ Phoning is not the main purpose of your phone?... although... my actual main phone is a 1110i and I don't do more calls ^^	13:47
*** OptX has joined #maemo		13:47
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		13:47
psycho_oreos	the n900 isn't a complete phone, its an internet tablet with phone functionality.. on the phone side of things, the n900 does alright	13:47
SpeedEvil	In some ways it's unusually good, in its skype and SIP integration.	13:48
*** Jucato_ has joined #maemo		13:48
*** dos1 has quit IRC		13:48
SpeedEvil	But...	13:48
TiagoTiago	The N900 isn't a phone, it got a phone, it's like a car with a carphone	13:48
SpeedEvil	There are issues where a hardware button would be really nice to accept calls.	13:48
* MohammadAG agrees		13:49
TiagoTiago	indeed	13:49
BCMM	TiagoTiago: are you from slashdot?	13:49
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		13:49
*** timeless_pidgin has joined #maemo		13:49
BCMM	(infamous for people turning everything into a car analogies)	13:49
TiagoTiago	lol	13:49
BCMM	maybe more like a laptop with a 3G modem	13:49
lcuk	slashdot is infamous for many things	13:50
BCMM	although i guess those usually don't make voice calls	13:50
SpeedEvil	It's like a car with fold-down seats.	13:50
TiagoTiago	they do if you use Skype	13:50
SpeedEvil	It handles cargo OK, but it's not a van.	13:50
BCMM	lcuk: yeah, i have a bad feeling that they were the first to popularise a certain website from Christmas Island	13:50
TiagoTiago	lol	13:51
*** Jucato has quit IRC		13:51
BCMM	SpeedEvil: the hardware button thing bothers me sometimes when the interface is a little unresponsive	13:52
Jaffa	lcuk: That's the potentially iffy bit. Artists welcome to draw a replacement.	13:52
BCMM	i still think maemo needs to use nice levels some more	13:52
BCMM	for example, let the UI for answering a call run with a higher priority	13:52
lcuk	jaffa i just use a placeholder icon	13:52
BCMM	i mean, if you are installing a large package and get a call, you can find yourself with your ringtone playing for several seconds before the GUI to answer it appears	13:53
lcuk	for my stuff, if its iffy, best to not have an issue	13:53
Freak5	I am probably in the wrong channel to ask this, but why did nokia actually switch from maemo to meego?	13:53
TiagoTiago	i wanna stay and chat more, i wanna contribute to the convo, but i am too sleepy :(	13:53
TiagoTiago	cya :(	13:53
BCMM	Freak5: they're combining their efforts with intel	13:53
lcuk	BCMM, Christmas island? which suffix is that?	13:53
Stskeeps	cx	13:53
lcuk	ahh	13:54
BCMM	lcuk: i'm trying very hard not to give enough information for people to google it	13:54
lcuk	its ok	13:54
lcuk	i know now	13:54
lcuk	my mind just went blank	13:54
lcuk	thankfully	13:54
TiagoTiago	if you remember whwre the answr call button should be, somtimes you can answer the call	13:54
TiagoTiago	anyway, cya	13:54
Freak5	BCMM	13:55
BCMM	Freak5: meego is the merger of moblin (intel's linux distro for tiny things) and maemo	13:55
Freak5	BCMM So would you switch to meego somewhen?	13:55
Freak5	(I think more people are going to use it since some netbooks and tablets are using it, too)	13:55
*** TiagoTiago has quit IRC		13:56
Freak5	I already checked the wiki artikle about meegos history ^^	13:56
BCMM	Freak5: someone may well correct me on this (or tell us to go to #meego), but i believe that meego will not be officially released on the n900	13:56
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		13:56
BCMM	however, many people plan to use it anyway	13:56
SpeedEvil	Officially released - no hope.	13:56
psycho_oreos	I think meego may become something of what android is like, instead of having a device with an unique platform, it will be more of a software delivery through a set of devices running the same platform	13:57
MohammadAG	what version is modest on the N900?	13:57
MohammadAG	3.2.13-3+0m5?	13:57
Freak5	Oh, thx, I thouhgt it already was	13:57
SpeedEvil	Simply as it would _vastly_ confuse most users	13:57
*** croppa has quit IRC		13:57
SpeedEvil	If your phone changes UI totally - ...	13:57
*** jrocha has quit IRC		13:57
BCMM	psycho_oreos: about that: any idea if it's going to have to be RPM-based, or if nokia will be able to make their version use deb?	13:58
Goliath23	hi	13:58
SpeedEvil	It's a packaging format.	13:58
psycho_oreos	BCMM, so far from what I can see its still going to be all RPM based I'm afraid.. but best to ask Stskeeps	13:58
SpeedEvil	You don't care unless you are barking mad.	13:58
Freak5	That's another thing, up to now I only used debian based systems ^^	13:58
psycho_oreos	SpeedEvil, it does matter in the availability of tools for example	13:58
korhojoa	seriously? rpm?	13:58
korhojoa	no!	13:58
BCMM	SpeedEvil: well you see i was hoping they'd switch to ebuilds...	13:59
* BCMM ducks		13:59
Freak5	wiki says rpm	13:59
_llll_	people who react badly to rpm usually have not used an rpm system in the last 10 years	13:59
psycho_oreos	I much like ports :)	13:59
psycho_oreos	which is quite untrue	13:59
MohammadAG	_llll_, or they've tried an RPM chroot on their N900, and it was shit slow	13:59
SpeedEvil	pkgtool!	14:00
_llll_	slow in what way?	14:00
SpeedEvil	slackware FTW!	14:00
MohammadAG	5 minutes to install xchat is not acceptable	14:00
Goliath23	I created a homescreen widget with qtcreator. it loaded okay and was displayed. now I changed something (setting sizes and layout) and the widget doesn't appear anymore on any screen. still it vanishes from the list of available widgets in the "add widget" dialog. how could I debug this? does the homscreen application (hildon-desktop?) write a log or so?	14:00
psycho_oreos	my very first linux distro was none other than rh8.. and then I gave it a few more chances with centos.. slow and lacked tools	14:00
psycho_oreos	pacman!	14:00
Jaffa	sp3000: ping	14:00
*** TheNewAndy has joined #maemo		14:00
_llll_	i think there are more important problems for meego than package format	14:00
BCMM	yeah, i mean, will it ship vim by default?	14:01
psycho_oreos	package format is fairly important especially when maemo has been using deb eversince	14:01
*** SWFu has quit IRC		14:01
MohammadAG	I'm not switching to MeeGo	14:01
psycho_oreos	so for the package maintainers, devs and what not have to pickup rpm	14:01
marmoute	Goliath23: have you tried the qt channel ?	14:01
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:01
steinex	MohammadAG: why not?	14:02
_llll_	if developers re not competant enough to learn a new format there are bigger problems	14:02
lcuk	Goliath23, hrm thats a bug that afaik Venemo got over with his qt app	14:02
MohammadAG	cause of RPM	14:02
*** messerting has joined #maemo		14:02
*** croppa has joined #maemo		14:03
lcuk	(Sticky notes)	14:03
MohammadAG	dpkg -l modest anyone? please? :)	14:03
psycho_oreos	sounds more like one here is acting like a boss.. `yeah, jobs are flexible so people must adapt or be made redundant.'	14:03
lcuk	Goliath23, perhaps looking at the differences there	14:03
lcuk	since his is a qt app also	14:03
Goliath23	lcuk: ah okay.. Venemo? do you have an email or so?	14:03
lcuk	Sticky Notes is his package	14:03
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG, 3.2.13-3+0m5	14:03
BCMM	i get a bit of an impression that meego takes more from moblin than from maemo	14:03
lcuk	it has all contact info in	14:03
sivang	psycho_oreos: it's not that hard, actually	14:03
MohammadAG	psycho_oreos, thanks	14:03
Stskeeps	BCMM: well, depends on the perspective	14:03
sivang	psycho_oreos: when you are customed to packaging system, it is more less revolving around the same thing, just a different syntax	14:04
Goliath23	lcuk: whats his package?	14:04
Stskeeps	BCMM: harmattan was going to be rearchitectured anyway to be a lean and mean qt mobile system	14:04
_llll_	it always amuses me how people find packaging so mysterious	14:04
Stskeeps	BCMM: so there's a large bunch of that in there	14:04
psycho_oreos	sivang, that's what I'm trying to get at.. and the lack of front end tools or part thereof with rpm	14:04
lcuk	Goliath23, http://maemo.org/packages/view/sticky-notes/	14:04
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG, nw	14:04
lcuk	source happily available :)	14:04
Goliath23	lcuk: ah, thank you	14:04
sivang	psycho_oreos: front end tools?	14:04
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:04
_llll_	rigth... the lack of front end tools is going to matter to the user	14:05
psycho_oreos	sivang, e.g. where's the equivalent of dpkg-repack? or apt-mirror?	14:05
_llll_	rofl	14:05
*** timeless_pidgin has quit IRC		14:05
Goliath23	lcuk: will contact him later, gotta go now. thanks!	14:05
lcuk	Goliath23, try looking first	14:05
lcuk	at differences :)	14:05
BCMM	it annoys me that screenshots of OS's always seem to depict the desktop with no applications running	14:05
Stskeeps	-repack is such a hack..	14:05
Stskeeps	:P	14:05
BCMM	OSs	14:05
psycho_oreos	I'm not talking on the perspective of simply just the user, I'm talking the lack of front end tools regardless of where you stand	14:05
lcuk	BCMM, well if the OS is showing its baseline then its right to	14:06
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:06
sivang	psycho_oreos: what's dpkg-repack? I've never used it and I did quite some packaging in Ubuntu	14:06
lcuk	but in meegos case its a bit harder	14:06
BCMM	lcuk: ?	14:06
psycho_oreos	Stskeeps, any equivalent? or rpm just lacks them and one has to make it themselves? what about apt-mirror.. yeah a hack but where's the equivalent for rpm?	14:06
lcuk	BCMM, if yo uare looking for screenshots of the OS	14:06
BCMM	lcuk: what i meant was that a screenshot of a desktop doesn't tell you anything about the look and feel	14:06
*** Termana_ has joined #maemo		14:06
BCMM	which is all a screenshot is for	14:06
_llll_	becasue the applications are of such a poor standard it would be embarrassing to show them?	14:06
psycho_oreos	sivang, packs whatever contained inside an installed deb file along with its infos, etc back into a deb file	14:07
*** Termana has quit IRC		14:07
Freak5	From the Windows Developer point of view. Is there something I have to care about when I usually use the STL, boost and maybe wxwidgets or QT will it just compile and work?	14:07
*** Termana_ is now known as Termana		14:07
_llll_	sure sounds like a killer app for a phone. i bet google quake in their boots to know the n900 can do that	14:07
BCMM	anyway, since wikipedia is being useless, somebody reassure me that meego for handsets still uses normal x11 windows	14:08
lcuk	_llll_, ?	14:08
BCMM	also, will it do landscape?	14:08
Stskeeps	psycho_oreos: well, you'll want to look at yum and zypper instead, dpkg and rpm compare, apt and yum compare	14:08
Stskeeps	:P	14:08
sivang	psycho_oreos: what's the real use case for development and package distribution?	14:08
_llll_	lcuk: dpkg-repack is apparently key to, wrell, i dont even know what	14:08
dRbiG	okey, ported and packaged lftp; works but ssl not tested yet :)	14:08
psycho_oreos	Stskeeps, I've looked at some of them but again, hardly any answers my question of lacking front end	14:08
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo		14:09
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:09
Stskeeps	psycho_oreos: apt-mirror should be trivial for yum repos, but frankly, why not just rsync?	14:09
Stskeeps	:P	14:09
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC		14:09
*** timeless_pidgin has joined #maemo		14:09
*** croppa has quit IRC		14:09
psycho_oreos	sivang, lets say you installed packages from ovi but because you're on limited bandwidth and you screwed up your setup and you have to reinstall.. would you like to download all the apps you have installed from ovi?	14:09
psycho_oreos	Stskeeps, there's no rsync available for meego no?	14:10
psycho_oreos	:)	14:10
psycho_oreos	apart from some wget hack	14:10
Stskeeps	psycho_oreos: sure there is, we mirror to kernel.org too and that has a rsync mirror	14:10
Stskeeps	people use it to import to their OBS'es	14:10
*** smooph1 has quit IRC		14:10
SpeedEvil	apt-get install rsync	14:10
SpeedEvil	or even grsync	14:10
SpeedEvil	I use rsync daily	14:10
psycho_oreos	Stskeeps, but why not rsync directly from meego.com's repo?	14:10
SpeedEvil	To sync photos and iplayer content	14:10
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo		14:10
_llll_	does grsync include an rsync binary?	14:10
SpeedEvil	Dunno.	14:11
SpeedEvil	I suspect it depends on rsync	14:11
dRbiG	must have it as a dependency	14:11
Stskeeps	psycho_oreos: for the stupid reason repo.meego.com is really really slow	14:11
dRbiG	(i guess)	14:11
_llll_	i would have thought there'd be a common library	14:11
psycho_oreos	Stskeeps, ahh and henceforth rsync isn't available interesting	14:11
_llll_	rather than depending on rsync, but i never looked	14:11
Stskeeps	psycho_oreos: well, i would rather rsync from kernel.org personally :)	14:11
sivang	psycho_oreos: I use backups, instead, it scares me what could happen from using dpkg-repack	14:12
psycho_oreos	Stskeeps, well I wouldn't mind either, but getting it directly from the source is really ideal.. sometimes the mirrors may not be up to date	14:12
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:12
Stskeeps	psycho_oreos: :nod:	14:13
sivang	psycho_oreos: the reinstalling onto another machine might be a better use case, but stil...	14:13
Stskeeps	psycho_oreos: i think it's just about to not overload repo.meego.com machine insanely lot atm	14:13
psycho_oreos	sivang, backups doesn't store the actual programs, rather it stores the list of programs you have installed previously.. but then that would require you to having to use internet to download and install packages.. which effectively would put strain on the example of limited bandwdith	14:13
psycho_oreos	Stskeeps, hmm I see	14:14
DocScrutinizer2	( <MohammadAG> 5 minutes to install xchat is not acceptable) Muhaha, tell this to HAM please!	14:14
sivang	psycho_oreos: I backed up everything :)	14:14
sivang	psycho_oreos: including disk content	14:14
psycho_oreos	sivang, you dd?	14:14
sivang	psycho_oreos: nope, I dar'd	14:14
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer2, I'm not comparing GUIs, I'm comparing apt to yum	14:14
psycho_oreos	sivang, dar'd? or you meant tar'd	14:14
DocScrutinizer2	MohammadAG: then do it in a fair way	14:15
sivang	psycho_oreos: http://dar.linux.free.fr/	14:15
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer2, k, less than a minute with apt, more than 5 with rpm	14:15
DocScrutinizer2	MohammadAG: I don't think yum is comparable directly to apt	14:15
*** DocScrutinizer2 is now known as DocScrutinizer		14:16
psycho_oreos	sivang, interesting	14:16
psycho_oreos	yum the last I check heavily depends on python	14:17
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo		14:17
DocScrutinizer	why do you think HAM is so much slower than apt, and still it's strongly deprecated to use apt directly for normal installs?	14:17
MohammadAG	HAM is shit	14:17
sivang	HAM is in python?	14:17
DocScrutinizer	nonsense	14:17
MohammadAG	no, it's in C	14:18
*** FIQ has quit IRC		14:18
MohammadAG	bad bad C	14:18
sivang	C/GTK?	14:18
sivang	well it has to	14:18
sivang	I guess	14:18
Stskeeps	zypper's in C or C++	14:18
Stskeeps	:P	14:18
MohammadAG	never tried that	14:18
sivang	Stskeeps: 'or' ? taking the hybrid approach?	14:18
DocScrutinizer	zypper might even be mono	14:18
MohammadAG	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=832142#post832142 for portrait mode support in modest	14:18
sivang	Stskeeps: zypper's faster than yum? (yum is python, granted)	14:18
Stskeeps	sivang: yes	14:18
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:18
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Is it a disaster?	14:19
sivang	MohammadAG: dude, why do you never use the mailing lists for announcin things? :)	14:19
Jaffa	MohammadAG: i.e. "let's rotate the screen, but not do anything to make it usable"?	14:19
DocScrutinizer	but maybe that's from times where this unbearable red-carpet shit was inside yast/zypper	14:19
lcuk	MohammadAG, add the gitorious commit for that please	14:19
lcuk	and lets go through the motions once its tested	14:19
lcuk	for a merge request	14:19
MohammadAG	lcuk, I have to figure out how to relayout text when it flips into portrait mode	14:20
MohammadAG	Jaffa, it's usable :)	14:20
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		14:20
lcuk	nice stuff though	14:20
sivang	Jaffa: that is more or less what happened to MicroB with the portrait mode, you have to swipe the page yourself to make it useable after the turn around.	14:20
MohammadAG	inbox full on tmo, grr	14:20
*** davyg has quit IRC		14:20
DocScrutinizer	meh, I want mhd	14:21
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		14:21
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		14:21
Jaffa	MohammadAG: lcuk: BTW, do you know how easy it'd be to make the font used by Modest for rendering (and composing) different? i.e. Droid Sans Mono and smaller.	14:22
* Jaffa figures it should be possible in gtkrc, but has forgotten all his gtkrc-fu		14:22
lcuk	jaffa	14:22
lcuk	thats theme surely?	14:22
lcuk	ie make a theme	14:23
lcuk	its not down to the app itself?	14:23
DocScrutinizer	I.E. I want a version that's merging http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/repo/pool/free/h/hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop_2.2.142-1_armel.deb with matan's modified hildon desktop, pretty please!	14:23
Jaffa	lcuk: I don't want to make all large input areas have a different font and smaller text (well, maybe I do)	14:23
lcuk	and changing a default app font would not be wise	14:23
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I thought you were referring to host mode LOL	14:24
BCMM	MohammadAG: modest is open-source?	14:24
lcuk	jaffa, I am of the impression that big text areas should start with big fonts	14:24
Jaffa	lcuk: Lots of apps give you a chance to change what font you use, with one of them being "Default" or "System"	14:24
Jaffa	BCMM: Yeah	14:24
lcuk	and font size should reduce as you enter more stuff in	14:24
MohammadAG	BCMM, yes, except for Nokia Messaging	14:24
Jaffa	lcuk: I don't disagree. However, when composing or viewing an email, I want to be able to see 72 characters on a line	14:24
*** S_WO has quit IRC		14:24
lcuk	nod	14:24
*** davyg has joined #maemo		14:25
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		14:25
lcuk	but then again most people couldnt read 72 char lines?	14:25
*** LjL has joined #maemo		14:25
lcuk	thats 11 pixels/char ish	14:25
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: quite reasonable request. You'll need intitial and minimum fontsize settings for such a textfield	14:26
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Is that Modest (w/ portrait) the same one in the SSU?	14:26
MohammadAG	the SSU one doesn't have portrait mode	14:26
Jaffa	lcuk: Anyway, none of the default themes seem to specify it, so it must be coming from somewhere :-/	14:27
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, I did it already in onedotzero and really expected it in more places	14:27
MohammadAG	else, they're the same, with a different version number	14:27
lcuk	the dialer etc	14:27
Jaffa	MohammadAG: ta	14:27
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: you see such thing on quite every dialer's number input, starting with Nokia 6210 ~y2000	14:27
lcuk	Jaffa, you are right, it mightv been hard written	14:27
*** K0JIbKA has left #maemo		14:27
lcuk	but droid fonts are not part of default install (are they>)	14:27
MohammadAG	nope, they aren't	14:27
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I'll look at mhd when I'm done with my shit for today	14:27
MohammadAG	shouldn't take too long	14:28
lcuk	it should pickup the theme font and use it larger/smaller	14:28
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: :-D \o/	14:28
lcuk	i need nourishment	14:28
sp3000	Jaffa: dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser com.nokia.osso_browser.open_new_window 'string:http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/html/monkeys.txt'	14:28
Jaffa	sp3000: Got it now, ta :-)	14:28
sp3000	Jaffa: http://mxr.moego.org/fremantle/source/tablet-browser-interface/tablet-browser-interface.h#26	14:28
lcuk	anyone got any bacon	14:28
Jaffa	sp3000: Cool, thanks.	14:28
* Jaffa wonders if it's possible to "name" a tablet-browser window and then reuse it (kinda like "target" in HTML)		14:29
sp3000	timeless, mxr.maemo.org search is ** Fatal:	14:29
MohammadAG	Jaffa, probably easier to just use QWebKit	14:29
*** swo has joined #maemo		14:29
sp3000	timeless: moego/fremantle works but you have to be a bit circumlocutious getting there ;)	14:29
*** sven-tek has quit IRC		14:30
DocScrutinizer	sp3000: already yelled about it	14:30
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:30
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Yeah, later version then ;-)	14:30
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:30
DocScrutinizer	sp3000: for now you can yank the X from MXR	14:31
*** apexi200sx has joined #maemo		14:31
DocScrutinizer	which actually is a PITA	14:31
*** drizztbsd_ has joined #maemo		14:31
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		14:31
*** drizztbsd has quit IRC		14:31
DocScrutinizer	sp3000: it's not only the "*** FATAL!" on search, it's also the completely missing hotlinks on all symbols	14:32
sp3000	so identifier index too	14:32
DocScrutinizer	yes	14:32
*** aloril has quit IRC		14:32
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:33
DocScrutinizer	foXR is junk and even less useful than a local plain directory structure	14:33
sp3000	but yeah you can use the one on moego though I dunno if there's some difference	14:33
DocScrutinizer	err	14:33
DocScrutinizer	for now MXR is...	14:33
sp3000	just can't go to it from the front page since that puts you over to the mxr.maemo one	14:33
MohammadAG	I hate it when hildon-desktop stops rotating properly and requires a restart	14:34
DocScrutinizer	what's moego?	14:34
timeless_pidgin	Jaffa?	14:34
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:34
timeless_pidgin	Your thing broke my browser	14:34
sp3000	DocScrutinizer, see link above	14:34
timeless_pidgin	I kept getting windows opened to that stupid page	14:35
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: "Broke your browser"?	14:35
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:35
timeless_pidgin	Instead of getting pages i wanted to load from bookmarks - even after the browser crashed	14:35
* sp3000 calls it erosion due to overbrowsing		14:35
Jaffa	timeless_pidgin: All it does is use the DBus API (open_new_window in 0.0.3); how could it have that effect/	14:36
DocScrutinizer	thanks for that link	14:36
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		14:36
RST38h	MohammadAG: Here?	14:36
DocScrutinizer	moego sound like a genuine jeff moe aka jebba project :-D	14:36
timeless_pidgin	Tiagotiago : speaker limits are done in software and there are iirc cases where people bipassed the limits via direct alsa(?) Pipes which damaged them...	14:39
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		14:39
* DocScrutinizer moos at timeless_pidgin		14:40
Jaffa	lcuk: Modest already seems to override the theme: http://mxr.moego.org/fremantle/source/modest/src/maemo/modest-msg-edit-window.c#76 ;-p	14:41
SpeedEvil	It's depressing there is the unused hardware filtrer.	14:41
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:41
* DocScrutinizer is pondering to have a redirect from mxr.maemo.org to mxr.moego.org in his etc/hosts - just to put the 30..40 scrcode pages for hostmode back to purpose		14:42
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ??	14:42
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: audio? mnz is working on that	14:43
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:43
* timeless_pidgin kicks pidgin for randomly launching browser windows		14:44
SpeedEvil	yes, I know.	14:45
frals	downloading a source package shouldnt get me the binary for a package, surely?	14:45
lcuk	Jaffa, heh, but at least it still uses a font thats on device	14:45
frals	ie http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/h/here-and-now/here-and-now_0.0.2.tar.gz	14:45
lcuk	so try patching the font size down a bit	14:45
lcuk	to your liking?	14:45
*** tobis87 has joined #maemo		14:45
lcuk	frals, it doesnt	14:45
lcuk	it gave me the source	14:45
lcuk	what did it give you?	14:46
frals	lcuk: do you see any code in there?	14:46
Jaffa	frals: The source is a Makefile and a shell script	14:46
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:46
frals	bah	14:46
* frals curses windows		14:46
frals	yeah, my bad :)	14:46
* timeless_pidgin curses someone for supporting launching url / windows in the browser		14:46
timeless_pidgin	Awful feature	14:46
timeless_pidgin	Bloody annoying	14:46
tobis87	MohammadAG: Does it also fix the "Leave messages on server" bug?	14:47
* timeless_pidgin kicks the maemo 5 window manager for being braindead		14:47
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:47
Jaffa	frals: I could've named it here-and-now.sh in the source ;-)	14:47
frals	Jaffa: yeah ;)	14:47
Jaffa	frals: 0.0.3 has justbeen imported into te -devel repository and includes some changes requested by timeless_pidgin	14:48
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		14:48
*** sepultina has quit IRC		14:48
lcuk	frals, there isnt any code	14:49
lcuk	its a dbus script	14:49
lcuk	silly wrapper around webapp	14:49
Jaffa	Nice perjorative :-p	14:49
DocScrutinizer	timeless_pidgin: MXR on garage isn't a simple project I guess?	14:49
DocScrutinizer	timeless_pidgin: (window manager) what WM??	14:50
* timeless_pidgin kicks pidgin		14:50
*** raster has quit IRC		14:51
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		14:51
* sp3000 calls the software abuse hotline		14:52
DocScrutinizer	~trout sp3000	14:53
* infobot slaps sp3000 around a bit with a large trout!		14:53
*** apexi200sx has quit IRC		14:53
*** apexi200sx has joined #maemo		14:53
lcuk	Jaffa, can yo umake a webapp that opens maemo.org too?	14:54
lcuk	you ^	14:54
*** BCMM has quit IRC		14:54
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:55
* timeless_pidgin kicks pidgin		14:56
timeless_pidgin	Should i be kicking gtkhtml?	14:56
* DocScrutinizer pipes timeless_pidgin \| uniq		14:56
*** pinheiro__ has quit IRC		14:56
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		14:56
*** apexi200sx has quit IRC		14:56
*** apexi200sx has joined #maemo		14:57
*** pinheiro__ has joined #maemo		14:57
timeless_pidgin	Sp3000: someone hinted at a problem earlier	14:58
timeless_pidgin	I'm flying home this afternoon, i'll deal w/ it tomorrow	14:58
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC		14:58
*** smooph has joined #maemo		14:58
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		14:59
timeless_pidgin	Jaffa : dunno (just got to your question )	14:59
timeless_pidgin	Docscrutinizer : moego is	14:59
timeless_pidgin	Docscrutinizer : meeow	15:00
DocScrutinizer	timeless_pidgin: is... ?	15:00
DocScrutinizer	... a jeff moe project? a garage based project?	15:00
timeless_pidgin	Docscrutinizer : garage is two collections of N vcs checkouts	15:01
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:01
*** pcfe has quit IRC		15:01
timeless_pidgin	Docscrutinizer : maemo 5 has one, it's hildon-desktop iirc	15:01
*** croppa has joined #maemo		15:01
DocScrutinizer	timeless_pidgin: I'd like to have mxr for h-e-n.maemo.org	15:01
lcuk	hildon desktop sits ontop of matchbox wm	15:01
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		15:02
DocScrutinizer	(WM) j/k	15:02
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo		15:02
DocScrutinizer	or "what? you call THIS a WM?"	15:02
lcuk	then whats a better one	15:03
*** croppa has quit IRC		15:04
DocScrutinizer	mhd (sorry never was meant to start a serious discussion)	15:04
*** timeless_pidgin1 has joined #maemo		15:04
DocScrutinizer	and yes I'm aware mhd is a desktop, not a WM	15:04
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		15:04
timeless_pidgin1	Sorry, on train. O2 doesn't service tunnels	15:05
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo		15:05
DocScrutinizer	so pidgin for sure isn't the IRC client of choice for you, timeless_pidgin1	15:05
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:05
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		15:06
*** pcfe has quit IRC		15:06
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		15:06
*** timeless_pidgin has quit IRC		15:06
*** famicom has joined #maemo		15:06
famicom	lo room	15:06
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		15:07
famicom	i got 2 questions, after a root password is set after installing opensshd server, how can the root access be restored to default settings after uninstall	15:07
*** Jucato_ is now known as Jucato		15:07
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		15:07
DocScrutinizer	man passwd	15:08
*** croppa has joined #maemo		15:08
famicom	DocScrutinizer yeah, that i know	15:08
*** citygent has quit IRC		15:08
*** citygent has joined #maemo		15:08
famicom	but does the n900 even ship with a root password?	15:08
timeless_pidgin1	Docscrutinizer : heh	15:08
DocScrutinizer	not by default	15:08
timeless_pidgin1	Ok, lemme go shopping	15:08
famicom	ok, DocScrutinizer so i can just set it to a blank password again correct	15:09
famicom	also, i have a problem with my wifi, not sure if this is a bug, but after an "easysetup" failed, it's now impossible to get it to attempt to connect to the accespoint again	15:09
DocScrutinizer	to invalid aka locked pw, yes	15:09
famicom	exactly, i'd rather have it locked :)	15:09
*** croppa has quit IRC		15:09
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:09
DocScrutinizer	it is, by default	15:09
DocScrutinizer	root access is via sudoers	15:10
famicom	yeah so passwd -l root should fix the issue correct?	15:10
DocScrutinizer	with NOPASSWD, which I consider a really bad thing	15:10
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		15:10
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:10
famicom	agreed that no pass isn't a smart thing to do	15:10
famicom	ubuntu has spread this whole sudo faggotry	15:10
* lindi- disagrees :)		15:10
DocScrutinizer	famicom: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	15:11
DocScrutinizer	lindi-: you're free to elaborate	15:11
*** HickinB_ has joined #maemo		15:11
famicom	DocScrutinizer thanks man	15:11
*** aloril has joined #maemo		15:11
famicom	just what i needed :)	15:12
famicom	thanks a million	15:12
timeless_pidgin1	sudo predates ubuntu	15:12
* timeless_pidgin1 kicks marius		15:12
DocScrutinizer	famicom: yw	15:12
famicom	i know, but ubuntu abused the fuck out of it :)	15:12
famicom	and made it the defacto standard	15:12
DocScrutinizer	famicom: ack	15:12
*** apexi200sx has quit IRC		15:12
lindi-	famicom: if I get access to your account it is trivial to alias "sudo" to log your password. having a password for sudo is only useful for preventing mistakes and has only mild security benefit	15:12
famicom	exactly	15:13
DocScrutinizer	the idiocy to allow * for user with user password or even NOPASSWD is clearly a buntkuh BS	15:13
DocScrutinizer	lindi-: nonsense	15:13
famicom	eh, reminds me of "Lindows"	15:14
timeless_pidgin1	Why isn't apt-worker run w/ a nice +5 or something?	15:14
timeless_pidgin1	It kills my device...	15:14
timeless_pidgin1	Xchat critique	15:14
timeless_pidgin1	Xc1. Tabs are stupid	15:14
timeless_pidgin1	Xc2. Network list doesn't do typing to filter	15:14
timeless_pidgin1	Xc3. There doesn't seem to be a maemo menu	15:14
DocScrutinizer	each first level sophistication attack will try to get root access directly, without urging user to enter a password to sudo	15:14
lindi-	famicom: having a password for sudo just gives most people false sense of security in most usage patterns	15:14
famicom	exactly	15:14
famicom	so people will start thinking it's "acceptable" to write applications without putting proper thought into security/permissions	15:15
*** geaaru_ has joined #maemo		15:15
*** TeringTuby has joined #maemo		15:15
famicom	"because the user can just sudo"	15:15
timeless_pidgin1	Xc4. Using +/- would be better than "add" and "remove" which have random lame widths, especially localized	15:15
DocScrutinizer	lindi-: fact is with flash vulnerability plus brainfsckd sudoers setup on maemo, the device is open like a win-NT machine	15:16
famicom	which doesn't work too fucking well in a server/enterprise environment	15:16
lindi-	famicom: ok, password-less sudo does promote the use for sudo from third party applications. there a password would have a benefit since it would discourage should tactics	15:16
tobis87	MohammadAG: Does your new modest package also fix the "Leave messages on server" bug?	15:16
lindi-	DocScrutinizer: yes	15:16
kerio	hmm, i cba to read the backscroll but i saw a notified word so...	15:16
timeless_pidgin1	Xc5. "Auto connect" should either be one word or hyphenated. Otherwise you'd write "automatically" ...	15:16
kerio	BACON!!!	15:16
*** otep has quit IRC		15:17
kerio	yeah, it was lcuk asking for some	15:17
famicom	lindi- unless we teach those ubuntards and whatnot that root is a priviledge, not a right, we'll end up with a UAC nightmare like vista	15:17
famicom	AKA: click yes for, wooohooo spinning cubes	15:17
*** geaaru has quit IRC		15:17
*** avs has joined #maemo		15:17
MohammadAG	tobis87, not sure, never experienced the bug with nokia messaging	15:17
timeless_pidgin1	Xc6. Dialog titles are titles (not list headings) and shouldn't end in ":" (Character set:)	15:17
MohammadAG	tobis87, you're free to test it	15:17
lindi-	famicom: I have not used UAC myself but the concept of trusted path is something we should be learnings from	15:18
* MohammadAG added portrait mode support to control panel		15:18
famicom	lindi- what is your favorite OS	15:18
lindi-	famicom: debian	15:18
famicom	:)	15:18
kerio	debian! woot!	15:18
*** timeless_xchat has joined #maemo		15:18
* famicom remembers the good ole days, when sudo was a dirty word		15:18
timeless_pidgin1	Xc7. The scrollbar width seems somewhat random	15:18
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		15:19
sivang	MohammadAG: control panel is open source?	15:19
MohammadAG	yes	15:19
timeless_pidgin1	Debian FreeBSD, Debian Solaris, Debian Hurd, or something else?	15:19
MohammadAG	hildon-control-panel	15:19
sivang	MohammadAG: nice	15:19
lindi-	famicom: currently improving the security is difficult. you need to switch to another virtual console and login as root to do adminstrative work	15:19
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo		15:19
*** timeless_pidgin1 has quit IRC		15:19
MohammadAG	I want the source of the contacts app :(	15:19
lindi-	famicom: but that is not very usable :(	15:20
sivang	MohammadAG: right....	15:20
MohammadAG	it works in portrait mode	15:20
timeless_xchat	debian isn't an operating system...	15:20
famicom	lindi- i'd rather have something that's hard to use	15:20
famicom	yeah yeah yeah	15:20
lindi-	famicom: hmm?	15:20
famicom	GNU/Linux + various other tools	15:20
famicom	famicom yeah, something hard to use, but knowing that my data is secure	15:20
MohammadAG	hmm	15:20
famicom	i use this phone for work	15:20
MohammadAG	just rechecked the source for hildon-control-panel	15:21
MohammadAG	it has portrait mode already in it, but commented out	15:21
MohammadAG	/* Turn on portrait mode support flag */	15:21
MohammadAG	/* TODO FIXME XXX Turn on this flag when applets ready... */	15:21
sivang	MohammadAG: you mean it adjusts to protrait mode nicely as opposed to the other apps?	15:21
MohammadAG	sivang, yes, use CTRL+SHIFT+R	15:21
timeless_xchat	Xc8. "1 ops, 45/" is useless as titles for userlists go	15:21
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		15:21
MohammadAG	it just needs a flag	15:21
timeless_xchat	xc9. that one can "focus" the userlist, but not type to filter it is lame.	15:21
yacc	Anyone got an idea how the touchscreen events are represented and how to make x11vnc convert the desktop mouse into them?	15:22
timeless_xchat	xc10. the channel menu isn't maemo5 friendly, it's maemo4 :(	15:22
lindi-	famicom: my goal is to get something that is easy to use but safer than plain sudo :)	15:22
sivang	timeless_xchat: what are you reading from ? :)	15:22
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		15:22
timeless_xchat	?	15:22
famicom	lindi- hummm, i dont know	15:22
tobis87	MohammadAG: Will do it, do you mind to take a look into mece's changes to the hildon filemanager? http://pastebin.com/R77d7yJQ , it does reboot the n900 if a folder is opened with many files while the cpu is on high load.	15:22
timeless_xchat	i'm writing a bug list for xchat	15:23
famicom	all these "mainstream" adoptions of linux have ben pisspoor	15:23
lindi-	famicom: http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/darcs/sido/README is one of the prototypes	15:23
sivang	timeless_xchat: ah	15:23
sivang	MohammadAG: this key combo does nothing for me.	15:23
pupnik_	yacc: if you want to control n900 with desktop kbd/mouse try 'synergy'	15:23
lindi-	timeless_xchat: my largest problem with xchat was that it doesn't work well when I'm on 70+ channels	15:23
famicom	eeePC, HP 2133, Maemo	15:23
famicom	they all sucked	15:23
yacc	synergy?	15:23
timeless_xchat	xc11. the lack of default tap to scroll is mostly annoying	15:23
lindi-	timeless_xchat: I never notice when somebody mentions my nick since the channel list does not fit to screen..	15:23
*** johnsq has joined #maemo		15:23
johnsq	Hi	15:24
timeless_xchat	xc12. the default theme of "my text" as dark gray on black background is stupid	15:24
MohammadAG	sivang, close the keyboard and rotate the phone	15:24
MohammadAG	ctrl+shift+r sets portrait mode flag to the top level window	15:24
yacc	pupnik_, well what's the benefit over x11vnc? (I also like to have the screen in a window so the N900 can be connected to the PC under the desk and hidden from view), ...	15:24
sivang	MohammadAG: ah okay, let me check this on the control panel	15:25
timeless_xchat	lindi: i wouldn't bother w/ more than a couple, my battery would die	15:25
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		15:25
lindi-	timeless_xchat: heh	15:25
lindi-	timeless_xchat: most of them are pretty idle	15:25
sivang	MohammadAG: ohhh rad	15:25
*** geaaru_ has quit IRC		15:25
sivang	MohammadAG: cool, now modest is also in protratin mode without any patch	15:25
MohammadAG	sivang, do it in the contacts app	15:25
*** andrei1089 has joined #maemo		15:25
timeless_xchat	xc13. "time stamps" shouldn't be two words...	15:25
MohammadAG	sivang, yes, it gets cleared when you close the app, so not really useful	15:26
pupnik_	yacc: the n900 becomes a little computer next to your real monitor - keep tabs on network activity or chat, or test software on n900	15:26
*** visz has quit IRC		15:26
sivang	MohammadAG: well, can't we make it always set?	15:26
MohammadAG	no	15:26
sivang	MohammadAG: surely this is a mere gconf nuence	15:26
MohammadAG	unless you patch the app	15:26
MohammadAG	no, it's a window flag	15:26
sivang	MohammadAG: X11 ?	15:26
MohammadAG	no	15:26
MohammadAG	hildon-desktop	15:26
timeless_xchat	xc14. tabs really don't work when you have dozens of them with no title padding (preferences !!)	15:26
sivang	MohammadAG: not read from gconf or some env var?	15:26
MohammadAG	...	15:27
sivang	MohammadAG: what's the code to respond to ctrl shift r does?	15:27
tobis87	Anyway, I'm off for the match Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich. And of course Dortmund will win! :-D	15:27
sivang	MohammadAG: e.g. the slot/callback	15:27
*** tobis87 has left #maemo		15:27
MohammadAG	not sure, check hildon-desktop's code	15:27
timeless_xchat	xc15. the alerts panel scrolls sideways	15:27
* sivang pokes		15:27
sivang	MohammadAG: also, we need to add a redraw callback to the tilt signal	15:28
timeless_xchat	xc16. "nick names" isn't two words!!	15:28
sivang	MohammadAG: to make app redraw in the new screen setting	15:28
sivang	timeless_xchat: hehe, btw, I never said loose again	15:28
*** Qantourisc has quit IRC		15:28
sivang	timeless_xchat: or alot for that matter	15:28
sivang	http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html	15:29
sivang	FWIW	15:29
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		15:29
timeless_xchat	xc17. they aren't consistent about timestamps fwiw (the logging preferences tab uses both !!)	15:29
timeless_xchat	ok, how the heck do i get non lame colors in xchat?	15:30
timeless_xchat	i'm switching back in 5 minutes unless someone can fix my dark gray on black :(	15:30
sivang	timeless_xchat: why use xchat?	15:30
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:31
*** sar3thz has quit IRC		15:31
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: xc17: channel tabs need aliases, and a way to sort	15:31
*** merlincorey has quit IRC		15:31
timeless_xchat	xc18. the context menu placement for usernames in the channel area is bad.	15:31
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: xc18: WTF there is no python plugin?	15:32
*** merlincorey has joined #maemo		15:32
timeless_xchat	sivang : docscrutinizer told me not to use pidgin	15:32
yacc	No synergy package for the N900 :(	15:32
DocScrutinizer	:-D	15:32
sivang	timeless_xchat: heh	15:32
* timeless_xchat kicks docscrutinizer		15:32
BCMM	yacc: yeah, that bothered me too	15:33
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:33
timeless_xchat	xc19. scroll buttons in menus are awful	15:33
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: lemme push my xchat.conf for you X-P	15:33
sivang	for the grammatically concious, I strongly recommend that ALOT post	15:34
sivang	anybody knows to explain why MMS is caled WAP Push?	15:34
sivang	err, not called, but that is the explenation I got somehwere on the web	15:34
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : if it doesn't suck...	15:34
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: sure it sucks, that's why I use it X-D	15:34
yacc	Well, MMS is a real heap of very aromatic dung, ...	15:34
yacc	I wonder does Maemo manage to keep multiple outbound network connections going at the same time?	15:35
*** visz has joined #maemo		15:35
timeless_xchat	?	15:35
sivang	yacc: and you said that since it requires it's own dedicated channel? :)	15:35
timeless_xchat	maemo tries to avoid multiple networks	15:35
yacc	If not, then you'll have problems to implement MMS support in a generic way.	15:35
timeless_xchat	you can have gprs + adhoc	15:36
yacc	sivang, well, sometimes, depends upon the network, but yes many networks have MMS on it's own APN.	15:36
timeless_xchat	and you can have whatever + vpn	15:36
sivang	timeless_xchat: btw, I created a bug report about tapping the gmail inbox in MicroB I apologize in advance if it is not MicroB's fault :)	15:36
yacc	sivang, worse even without a special APN, you might need to access the network through GPRS instead of the WLAN to access internal IPs of the servers involved.	15:36
timeless_xchat	sivang : doesn't bother me right now :)	15:36
*** OptX is now known as OptX_work		15:37
timeless_xchat	mms should just die	15:37
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : where's that conf already?	15:37
sivang	timeless_xchat: yeah, I know :) feel free to toss it back to me for furhter investigation who's fault is it when you see it, I am testing ukeyboard in that regard	15:37
yacc	sivang, but more generally, the big problem is that it's just another copy&modify&define-standard item that the mobile world has been pushing, ...	15:37
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: ~user/.xchat2/*	15:37
yacc	sivang, just like mobiles have supported for years their own IM chat protocols (Global Village or how was it called currently), ...	15:37
sivang	yacc: I read the same place and they said it is WAP Push, using SMS and WAP to accomplish its goal	15:38
sivang	yacc: never heard of it, which mobiles were those?	15:38
sivang	yacc: WAP Push confused me	15:38
yacc	sivang, that stupid thing looks so much like xmpp, but slightly modified and binary to make it incompatible with xmpp.	15:38
timeless_xchat	um... ok?	15:38
timeless_xchat	where's your file, the one you're giving me, the one that will make things suck less	15:38
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		15:38
yacc	sivang, well, most Nokia phones had it as "Chat", "IM Chat", and so on.	15:39
luke-jr_	SMS is nothing other than a standard non-standard IM protocol :P	15:39
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		15:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:40
sivang	it is amazing what you can learn and get curious by inspecting the source of an app	15:40
yacc	sivang: http://www.mobjab.com/	15:41
MohammadAG	sigh	15:41
sivang	.oO(fMMS)	15:41
MohammadAG	osso-backup is closed source	15:41
MohammadAG	why the fuck do they use osso in the name if it's closed	15:41
timeless_xchat	mohammadag: it isn't interesting	15:41
yacc	IMPS is the current name for that xmpp clone, ...	15:41
*** aloril has quit IRC		15:42
timeless_xchat	it basically gets things wrong, like dereferencing symlinks	15:42
sivang	MohammadAG: there's a bunch of free software laying around that accomplish the same	15:42
timeless_xchat	it reads a directory /etc/osso-backup/ (?)	15:42
yacc	Anyway, I take it that Maemo does not support having multiple outgoing data connections at the same time?	15:42
timeless_xchat	which more or less controls its behavior	15:42
sivang	yacc: yes, but I am more keen to learn how MMS works and what is it really consisted of	15:42
MohammadAG	I don't care, it's called osso-* it should be open	15:42
timeless_xchat	you could write a better one	15:42
yacc	sivang, what for?	15:42
sivang	timeless_xchat: and takes all the dot files fro you "home"	15:42
timeless_xchat	heck, i'll gladly help you	15:42
sivang	timeless_xchat: in C++/Qt ? :-)	15:43
timeless_xchat	sivang?	15:43
yacc	sivang, MMS is really a sick thing, expensive, and way inferior to simple email, and nowadays even stupid phones start to support standard email protocols.	15:43
timeless_xchat	mohammadag, the problem was that nokia renamed the organization "osso"	15:43
timeless_xchat	they couldn't call things "nokia"	15:43
timeless_xchat	they had to use their organization name	15:44
sivang	timeless_xchat: what did osso stood for?	15:44
sivang	timeless_xchat: writing a new backup app....	15:44
sivang	yacc: so you say it is deprecated?	15:44
famicom	is it safe to do an apt-get upgrade on the n900	15:44
timeless_xchat	and while the engineers (and typically local managers) wanted and expected to open source things	15:44
timeless_xchat	something got stuck beyond them preventing it	15:44
timeless_xchat	open source software opportunity - or thereabouts	15:44
sivang	yacc: some people find it easier to send something to a phone number they have of someone rather then his email, and making him see it shortly after	15:45
slonopotamus	famicom: yep. not dist-upgrade though.	15:45
luke-jr_	timeless_xchat: no, the problem was that "osso" should have BSDL everything as policy	15:45
*** drtylbstr has joined #maemo		15:45
timeless_xchat	sivang : i don't care. html + web server would be fine	15:45
*** geaaru has quit IRC		15:45
sivang	yacc: for example, if you're in Budapest and want to send images of shoes you want to buy for your friend	15:45
timeless_xchat	luke: policies are made to be broken	15:45
sivang	yacc: you don't want to deal with network connection, and the store's WIFI is protected and you don	15:45
yacc	sivang, yeah, depends upon your plan, but while it may be easier, most people do not appreciate the say 0,40EUR that sending a MMS would cost me.	15:45
sivang	yacc: have time to use aircrack-ng ;)	15:46
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:46
sivang	yacc: yes it is very exapansive	15:46
yacc	sivang, data roaming is cheaper than MMS roaming.	15:46
frals	free mms \o/	15:46
sivang	frals: ? :)	15:46
sivang	maybe for the sender ;)	15:47
luke-jr_	sivang: deal with network connection? more likely to get normal data working than MMS data	15:47
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		15:47
frals	uh, you have to pay to receive messages? what kind of third world country do you live in? ;)	15:47
yacc	frals, for MMS if you receive them in roaming you usually have to pay the roaming, ...	15:48
sivang	frals: isn't it clear already? :-p	15:48
*** otep has joined #maemo		15:48
*** otep has quit IRC		15:48
frals	yeah, true, roaming prices are silly	15:48
yacc	Because MMS is just a data connection to an internal server of your operator to retrieve the image.	15:48
* timeless_xchat kicks ham		15:48
timeless_xchat	system modal alerts hidden in other application windows. great	15:49
sivang	I was charged around 5$ for 1 minute call from Vienna	15:49
sivang	for reference	15:49
*** otep has joined #maemo		15:49
* luke-jr_ wonders if T-Mobile Europe plans work in USA		15:50
sivang	and data rates are higher in-country and ofcourse out-country	15:50
sivang	hence why I'd love to use MMS, or make fMMS work :)	15:50
luke-jr_	sivang: of course?	15:50
frals	fMMS works ;p	15:50
timeless_xchat	luke: you won't like the roaming fee	15:50
sivang	frals: reading the source, I realized I should ask my carrier for the MMS APN id/password etc ;)	15:50
luke-jr_	timeless_xchat: roaming on your own provider?	15:50
timeless_xchat	heck, roaming on o2 from uk to .ie sucks iirc	15:51
timeless_xchat	luke: sure	15:51
frals	sivang: that should be obviosu from the configuration dialog, but each to his own ;)	15:51
luke-jr_	wtf	15:51
*** otep_ has joined #maemo		15:51
*** otep has quit IRC		15:51
sivang	frals: there was none! at least in the previouse version, let me check again. /me reds	15:51
*** otep_ is now known as otep		15:51
*** Jucato_ has joined #maemo		15:52
*** timeless_xchat has quit IRC		15:52
*** Jucato has quit IRC		15:52
frals	sivang: has been since 0.3 or something iirc ;)	15:52
*** Jucato_ is now known as Jucato		15:52
sivang	what? HAM does not support speed search??	15:52
sivang	frals: oh, I guess my setup was borked	15:52
*** drtylbstr has left #maemo		15:52
*** timeless_xchat has joined #maemo		15:52
timeless_xchat	if it isn't your provider, the pair might not have a roaming agreement at all == no service	15:52
*** TeringTuby has quit IRC		15:52
sivang	frals: I spend some time trying to understand how to work it out and did not see a setup window, I'm now on 1.2 so maybe that'll be better	15:52
luke-jr_	over bere, Cricket has a plan including like 1000 roaming minutes with other providers :P	15:52
*** TeringTuby has joined #maemo		15:52
steinex	MohammadAG: one can not make calls when using jaunty on the n900 right?	15:53
sivang	timeless_xchat: 'pair' ?	15:53
*** an0therb0x has joined #maemo		15:53
steinex	MohammadAG: that would be awesome	15:53
timeless_xchat	if it is your provider, at least you shouldn't have to worry about that	15:53
luke-jr_	and a cell company would not stay in business if they charged roaming on their own network	15:53
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		15:53
sivang	frals: /me curious, how did you find all this details about gconf settings and dbus calls needed to work this out? it is a nice source to learn from	15:53
timeless_xchat	there was a time when people in e.g. Silver Spring, MD were roaming (on their network) when they went 5mins south into Washington, D.C.	15:53
sivang	frals: the MMSs are sent using a dbus call as well right? (from the cont. class)	15:53
sivang	timeless_xchat: hehe	15:54
luke-jr_	maybe there's a reason USA plans are so expensive	15:54
luke-jr_	if Europe	15:54
frals	wappushd interaction i got from nokia, rest was pretty much digging around :p	15:54
luke-jr_	if Europe's cheaper plans are piled up with insane roaming fees	15:54
timeless_xchat	these days, most people at least in the dc metro area have a plan which doesn't count that as roaming	15:54
timeless_xchat	but i'm not sure what portion of people actually have nationwide roaming	15:54
an0therb0x	can anyone let me know if there is a tv remote software for the n900 ?	15:54
sivang	frals: wappushd is open source?	15:54
frals	sivang: no	15:54
sivang	frals: or was discussed on FN ?	15:54
frals	sivang: its in the sdk now	15:55
timeless_xchat	luke: you have heard my roaming bills for w/in Europe, right?	15:55
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		15:55
luke-jr_	timeless_xchat: I can't imagine any nationwide cell company in the US can stay in business while considering it roaming	15:55
luke-jr_	timeless_xchat: no	15:55
sivang	frals: but it's enough to use it, you don't really need the source?	15:55
frals	sivang: only need the headers since the dbus api is there	15:55
timeless_xchat	1k/2k EUR in single months	15:55
sivang	frals: nice, cool	15:55
frals	sivang: no clue whats on FN as i dont think ive ever used it for maemo5-stuff	15:55
timeless_xchat	i also managed a 3k EUR bill for one month, but that involed ukraine which isn't .eu	15:56
sivang	o_O	15:56
timeless_xchat	(oh, and roaming with two phones using data on both concurrently definitely helps if you want high bills...)	15:57
luke-jr_	timeless_xchat: where you actually roaming, or just travelling on the same network?	15:57
*** TeringTuby has quit IRC		15:57
sivang	frals: why is SMS referred to as wappush in some web resources? what's the connection?	15:57
timeless_xchat	elisa doesn't really have coverage outside nordic countries	15:57
sivang	frals: and hence MMS is said to use it	15:57
sivang	timeless_xchat: but what a name for a provider ;)	15:57
timeless_xchat	but the eu is supposedly "regulated"	15:57
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		15:58
sivang	here it is 'partner communications' that carry orange	15:58
sivang	or market the orange brand	15:58
timeless_xchat	which means that roaming fees for non data are capped (everyone bills at the cap - duh, why compete?)	15:58
timeless_xchat	the eu solution to large bills was to ask networks to automatically disable service when the bill goes too high	15:58
frals	sivang: wap push is a 'special' sms usually	15:58
timeless_xchat	because obviously you'd rather not have service while roaming...	15:59
*** aloril has joined #maemo		15:59
sivang	frals: interesting, does it carry wap packets using sms or control channel transport?	15:59
timeless_xchat	that is why you took your phone with you, right?	15:59
*** swo has quit IRC		15:59
timeless_xchat	shiny toy to amuse the 3 year olds?	15:59
sivang	timeless_xchat: paying for incoming calls from your original carrier while you're roaming is also normal?	15:59
*** ToJa92 has joined #maemo		16:00
timeless_xchat	not sure	16:00
frals	sivang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Application_Protocol#WAP_Push	16:00
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:00
sivang	frals: I also pay for that, same as I would have initiated the call almost.	16:00
sivang	:p	16:00
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		16:00
*** an0therb0x has left #maemo		16:00
luke-jr_	timeless_xchat: 3 year olds aren't amused by phones	16:00
timeless_xchat	it required approval to see my bill in detail	16:01
timeless_xchat	so i didn't look	16:01
timeless_xchat	ask sp3000	16:01
sivang	frals: wikipedia is good enough as a resource? many say it is highly inaccurate :-p	16:01
sivang	reading the standard , was intriguing, but made me fall asleep.	16:01
timeless_xchat	luke: well, then you have a not so useful brick, don't you?	16:01
frals	sivang: that + the rfc was good enough for me going from 0 knowledge to getting a working-ish implementation so ;)	16:01
sivang	luke-jr_: install angry birds	16:01
luke-jr_	timeless_xchat: presumably there might be a 1 year old around…	16:01
sivang	frals: cool, 'll start with Vikipedia and go to the RFC	16:02
luke-jr_	sivang: I think Nokia wanted to force me to register for something to get that	16:02
frals	uh s/rfc/spec/	16:02
lcuk	younsters adore mobile phones	16:02
sivang	frals: thanks! liked your KISS python in the sources	16:02
lcuk	its a shame they arent quite waterproof though	16:02
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo		16:02
frals	:)	16:02
Jaffa	lcuk: Depends, is there any local information you need to get to open maemo.org? Not sure there is...	16:02
*** swo has joined #maemo		16:03
lcuk	Jaffa, it was half in jest - but technically I wonder why the info cannot be gotten directly from browser	16:03
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		16:03
*** dailylinux has joined #maemo		16:03
timeless_xchat	sivang : that's what they're there for	16:03
timeless_xchat	bedtime reading (for the insomniacs)	16:03
timeless_xchat	lcuk: indeed	16:03
timeless_xchat	bounce works well for children of many ages	16:03
lcuk	isnt location a browser feature nowadays	16:03
timeless_xchat	lcuk : what about location?	16:04
timeless_xchat	we don't expose cell tower info to content	16:04
lcuk	well the webapp jaffa wrapped for the nokia service	16:04
lcuk	ahh	16:04
timeless_xchat	we take that info and convert it into a location/precision	16:04
lcuk	but gps is available?	16:04
timeless_xchat	the browser exposes the result	16:05
*** Wamanuz has joined #maemo		16:05
lcuk	reasonable	16:05
timeless_xchat	either from gps or towers or wifi macs	16:05
lcuk	so the underlying method isnt important	16:05
timeless_xchat	depends on what nokia was doing	16:05
timeless_xchat	right	16:05
* lcuk appreciates that api abstraction		16:05
sivang	luke-jr_: the MMS spec?	16:05
lcuk	sivang, dig dig dig	16:06
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:06
sivang	lcuk: ?	16:06
timeless_xchat	sadly we don't support "user entered info"	16:06
timeless_xchat	as a method	16:06
* timeless_xchat kicks dougt		16:06
* timeless_xchat kicks dougt		16:06
* timeless_xchat kicks dougt		16:06
timeless_xchat	nothing prevents it, but it isn't included	16:06
timeless_xchat	which sucks	16:06
lcuk	it took a lot of effort for frals to roundup and boil the available info into fmms	16:06
lcuk	making fmms the uber spec at the moment :P	16:06
frals	fwiw fmms conciders the spec more like guidelines then anything else ;)	16:07
sivang	luke-jr_: you had to register to get the spec?	16:07
lcuk	sivang, if you ask frals nicely, he will do a poetic recital of the spec for you :D	16:07
lcuk	in welsh	16:07
sivang	lcuk: I won't dare to ask him this :)	16:07
sivang	hehe	16:07
sivang	lcuk: I have a Welsh friend from Collabora, I barely understood his tongue.	16:08
lcuk	timeless_xchat, most people dont need it	16:08
Jaffa	lcuk: Location isn't a browser feature on Here and Now :-p	16:08
timeless_xchat	s/then/than/	16:08
timeless_xchat	(comparison, not conclusion )	16:08
* lcuk has a Welsh colleague from Collabora		16:08
sivang	lcuk: daf perhaps?	16:08
lcuk	Jaffa, but it could be a coverpage	16:08
*** aloril has quit IRC		16:08
lcuk	giving the link	16:08
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:09
Jaffa	lcuk: Theoretically, yes, I guess so.	16:09
frals	sivang: mms spec etc is all on oma so shouldnt have to register but was a bit hard to find the dl link at times :p	16:09
lcuk	jaffa so it could be done directly with a bookmark	16:09
Jaffa	lcuk: I'm not sure why that'd be any benefit (especially since the service I'm giving access to is cid & mncc based)	16:09
timeless_xchat	could someone please tell rama kurvakat that Qt isn't spelled with a capital t?	16:09
timeless_xchat	lcuk : most people are stationary and don't need anything	16:09
timeless_xchat	if you're traveling to a place and want info in advance	16:09
timeless_xchat	then being able to act like you're there is important	16:09
Jaffa	lcuk: Not with H&N, because it handles the geocoding.	16:09
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:10
lcuk	timeless_xchat, very wise	16:10
lcuk	and thats more likely	16:11
lcuk	so its not "Here & now" and "There & future"	16:11
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:11
sivang	lcuk: there & then?	16:11
*** croppa has joined #maemo		16:11
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:12
timeless_xchat	[Sun Oct 03 00:45:12 2010] [error] [client 117.254.146.50] /home/timeless/bin/glimpse: relocation error: /home/timeless/bin/glimpse: symbol errno, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference, referer: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB	16:12
lcuk	if you set your clock wrong and connect to here and now, does it show old info?	16:12
sivang	timeless_xchat: are you chatting from the N900 by any chance?	16:12
timeless_xchat	sp3000 : glimpse needs a rebuild	16:12
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:13
timeless_xchat	uhuh	16:13
timeless_xchat	no other computers on this trip...	16:13
* DocScrutinizer curses Nokia cellmo/isi closed aproach to celltower/neighbour-cells/TA info		16:14
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:14
Stskeeps	isn't that info in ISI spec?	16:14
*** nandu has joined #maemo		16:14
nandu	how to install sdl in scratch box??	16:14
DocScrutinizer	another instance where Nokia basically said "yes, we could disclose this info to user, but we won't :-P"	16:14
nandu	for N900	16:15
*** guardian has quit IRC		16:16
*** Termana has quit IRC		16:16
DocScrutinizer	or, more precisely, they said "e're looking into it" and then never picked up again on the topic	16:16
*** foxfell_ has quit IRC		16:18
*** piggz has quit IRC		16:22
Arkenoi	doesn't agps api handle TA values to get better positioning when no satellites are available?	16:22
*** piggz has joined #maemo		16:23
DocScrutinizer	tzz, prolly nobody outside Nokia knows	16:23
DocScrutinizer	as if they had some patent on TA	16:23
*** guardian has joined #maemo		16:24
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:25
DocScrutinizer	actually they have NO patent (at least not legally): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html	16:25
sivang	Arkenoi: can it be better than GPS or just used as a fallback?	16:25
Arkenoi	sivang: fallback, as it is unlikely to be precise enough, TA step is 150m or something	16:26
DocScrutinizer	sivang: read ^^that post. Indoors it clearly can be way superior	16:26
DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: as well ^^	16:26
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:26
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:28
Arkenoi	iirc it was easy to get full "netmon"-style info in symbian	16:28
Jaffa	sivang: Quicker too	16:29
DocScrutinizer	there's netmon for N900, but it doesn't provide anything beyond mere basics	16:29
RST38h	Moo, Arkenoi, Doc	16:30
sivang	are there any client on the wild for that?	16:30
DocScrutinizer	and likes to segfault :-P	16:30
dRbiG	is there any app for n900 that kind'a acts like a file browser but over bluetooth?	16:30
sivang	DocScrutinizer: yes, I reading this but it is a bit too GSM lowlever technical for me without more reading :)	16:30
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:30
RST38h	drBig: Not in Maemo5	16:30
* RST38h has heard bt gfs functionality can be somehow reenabled though		16:31
dRbiG	RST38h: and what is there that i could try to port then?	16:31
dRbiG	that is: i have no idea for what software should i look	16:32
DocScrutinizer	sivang: bottom line is: force-assiciate to several neighbour stations, for each one get TA. You end with a pattern of intersecting rings with a width of 550m each	16:32
dRbiG	hmm, on the other hand geting stuff like gvfs or fuse would be nice to browse samba shares, maybe this stuff has some bt support too	16:32
DocScrutinizer	so with primary and first neighbour BTS you have an area of trpzoid shape and 550*550m	16:32
DocScrutinizer	3rd BTS cuts down significantly on that area	16:33
DocScrutinizer	also 4th, 5th aso	16:33
*** foxfell_ has joined #maemo		16:33
RST38h	dRbiG: Maemo5 uses Gnome file access backends	16:33
RST38h	dRbiG: Among those, there is a backend to access files on bt devices (obex://)	16:34
dRbiG	o, so there is obex already	16:34
dRbiG	good	16:34
dRbiG	thx!	16:34
RST38h	dRbiG: I suggest you look at how it is implemented inGnome and try the same tricks on Maemo5	16:34
DocScrutinizer	for all I can tell Nokia is just using network identifier to determine which land I'm in	16:34
RST38h	dRbiG: In THEORY,it should work	16:34
DocScrutinizer	so possibly off a few 100..1000km from my actual position	16:35
RST38h	dRbiG: Once you get it to work via some tricks, contact CepiPerez on talk.maemo.org and ask him to include this functionality into his FileBox file manager	16:35
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo		16:35
RST38h	dRbiG: Personally, I would support such a request, and many other people would as weel	16:35
dRbiG	RST38h: FileBox is the default browser? (i have localized menus)	16:36
*** djdm has quit IRC		16:36
*** kwtm has joined #maemo		16:37
*** TheNewAndy has quit IRC		16:37
DocScrutinizer	sivang: what I sketched in that psot is a way to get a location up to a precision <100m off, inside buildings where no GPS ever will work	16:38
Stskeeps	with TA?	16:38
Stskeeps	:P	16:38
DocScrutinizer	yes	16:38
DocScrutinizer	and no :-P	16:38
RST38h	dRbiG: FileBox is the usable browser	16:38
Stskeeps	the problem with TA is that in bigger cities, you'll always have it low	16:38
DocScrutinizer	so what?	16:39
Stskeeps	as in it gets useless for precision, even at 100m	16:39
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: read the post, understand the principle, then come back criticising	16:40
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: didn't criticise the principle, was just pondering about foundation	16:40
RST38h	Why do you ever need a location inside the building? Just use a bigger payload!	16:41
sivang	DocScrutinizer: yes, that's what you imply in the post- very nice	16:41
dRbiG	RST38h: usable or not that wasn't my question :P	16:41
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: i worked with in-door positioning technologies for 2-3 years at uni, we even tried radiation based positioning :)	16:41
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: but i'll read post better and give a proper feedback	16:41
lindi-	Stskeeps: cool. have you done anything with RTK-GPS stuff?	16:42
Stskeeps	lindi-: hmm, think that was after i switched to healthcare	16:42
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		16:43
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: when I got somewhat equidistant points on a map (call those BTS) and I know I'm <550m away from 3 of them, and 550m<x<1100m away from another 2, what accuracy would you expect that'll give me? think about it	16:43
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: i forget my GSM, but don't you only have TA from one BTS?	16:43
DocScrutinizer	read the post	16:43
sivang	DocScrutinizer: what are those BTSs?	16:44
*** piggz has quit IRC		16:44
DocScrutinizer	base transmitter stations aka towers	16:44
*** piggz has joined #maemo		16:45
sivang	DocScrutinizer: ah	16:45
* sivang rereads post		16:45
*** trumee is now known as zzztrumee		16:45
DocScrutinizer	I'm forcing the mobile equipment into registering with neighbour cells, by exploiting NOKIA's(!) net monitor function in 6210	16:46
DocScrutinizer	so I get TA for more than just primary aka servincing BTS	16:46
piggz	what is the best sdk for building qt/kde apps for maemo?(so far im aware of the nokia qt sdk, and the maemo sdk vm)	16:47
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: yeah, true, that could work	16:47
DocScrutinizer	alas on 6210 I couldn't implement a proper app for that, and on N900 the functions in ISI/celmo are missing (as they are on FR btw)	16:48
sivang	piggz: the nokia qt sdk will save you trouble setting up	16:48
sivang	is that netmon available onN900?	16:48
piggz	sivang: i have it set up already, but it totally failed at loading koffice as a cmake project in qtcreator...was weird, the first letter was missing from all file/dir names!	16:48
*** zzztrumee is now known as trumee		16:49
*** HickinB_ has quit IRC		16:50
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:50
*** The\|Avatar has joined #maemo		16:51
sivang	piggz: don't know about koffice	16:52
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		16:53
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		16:56
The\|Avatar	Has anybody here experience in developing OpenGLES2 applications?	16:56
pupnik_	how many OpenGLES2 applications do you see for maemo, The\|Avatar?	16:58
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake		16:58
The\|Avatar	There are some. Some engines have been ported and there are some apps for download on OVI. Why?	16:59
timeless_xchat	sp3000 : i'm going to hit packages.debian.org for debian linux 5 (x64)	17:00
timeless_xchat	is lenny == 5 == "stable" these days?	17:01
SwedeMike	yes.	17:01
timeless_xchat	grr	17:02
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:03
* timeless_xchat hates trying to find/get glimpse		17:05
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:05
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:05
*** th3_4zarado has joined #maemo		17:06
*** felipec has joined #maemo		17:06
RST38h	KILL KILL DESTROY	17:07
Stskeeps	RST38h: ?	17:08
th3_4zarado	nuts	17:09
steinex	warte auf renteNokia-N900:/usr/bin# aptitude	17:09
steinex	Ouch! Got SIGSEGV, dying..	17:09
steinex	hmm	17:09
pupnik_	The most annoying kids in high school were those who lusted after power - student government.	17:09
*** onen\|openBmap has joined #maemo		17:09
timeless_xchat	ok, now i have a version of glimpse that runs	17:12
timeless_xchat	but it doesn't like my data	17:12
PolarFox	pupnik_: lusted for MY power...	17:12
sivang	timeless_xchat: you isntalled glimpse x64 on the device?	17:13
korhojoa	anyone know of a way to get a n900 to charge via a usb power pack	17:13
korhojoa	does it require the middle pair to be shorted?	17:13
korhojoa	because it seems to be hit and miss for me when it charges	17:13
korhojoa	i just drew in lines between the two contacts with a pencil, and now it's charging :P	17:14
timeless_xchat	http://mxr.maemo.org/flashsupport/search?string=xxx&find=&findi=&filter=%5E%5B%5E%5C0%5D*%24&hitlimit=&tree=flashsupport	17:14
timeless_xchat	sivang : mxr.maemo.org doesn't run on an n900 ;-b	17:15
RST38h	Stskeeps: the sar3* guy.	17:15
DocScrutinizer	kohyes	17:15
RST38h	pupnik: This is true for elsewhere too	17:15
Stskeeps	RST38h: ah	17:15
sivang	timeless_xchat: ah, and all of this tinkering you do from the n900? :-o	17:15
RST38h	pupnik: Workplace, government, etc.	17:15
timeless_xchat	korhojoa: in general, if you don't short, it tries to negotiate for power	17:15
DocScrutinizer	korhojoa: yes	17:15
timeless_xchat	sivang : ayup	17:16
sivang	timeless_xchat: admirable	17:16
nidO	korhojoa: in order to charge without having to short, you simply need a charging cable, not a data cable.	17:16
*** klasu__ has quit IRC		17:16
RST38h	pupnik: maemo.org too ;)	17:17
DocScrutinizer	nidO: duh what? charging cable? is that an official USB spec?	17:17
timeless_xchat	sp3000 : looks like i forgot to copy the search databases - oops :o	17:17
sp3000	:)	17:18
nidO	well no, its just the kind of cable supplied with almost any usb charger or similar, that has the data pins missing	17:18
*** Chani has joined #maemo		17:18
DocScrutinizer	err, and that's supposed to short D+- how?	17:18
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:19
timeless_xchat	-rw-rw-r-- 1 timeless timeless 501M Jul 7 03:26 xref	17:19
timeless_xchat	it'll take a bit to copy the database over,	17:19
timeless_xchat	lemme figure out if i have useful magic for it	17:19
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: xchat better now? :-D	17:19
*** onen\|openBmap has quit IRC		17:20
Chani	hey, can someone give me an up-to-date sources.list for the n900? mine's failing 3 of 4 repos...	17:20
*** djdm has joined #maemo		17:20
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: hope you love my sucking config :-P	17:20
pupnik_	nice RST38h	17:20
*** Flyser has joined #maemo		17:23
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : haven't had time... too complicated	17:23
timeless_xchat	i just changed the foreground color to black and the background color to white	17:23
timeless_xchat	that alone makes it vaguely usable	17:23
*** Flyser_ has quit IRC		17:24
kwtm	Hi! What do I need to go again to be able to use sudo instead of su (root)? THere's some sudoers file but I can't seem to find the page at maemo.org any more.	17:24
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:24
kwtm	infobot: sudo	17:24
infobot	[~sudo] Better than su, according to talon. It allows a permitted user to execute a command as the superuser or another user, as specified in the sudoers file. Or can allow you to do silly things like run X11 apps with root privileges; also good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program", or http://www.aplawrence.com/Basics/sudo.html, or good for ordering sandwiches, or not pseudo	17:24
timeless_xchat	install rootsh	17:25
timeless_xchat	infobot: rootsh	17:25
infobot	rumour has it, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/, or http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/	17:25
timeless_xchat	infobot: gainroot	17:25
timeless_xchat	infobot: gainroot?	17:25
kwtm	timeless_xchat: I do have rootsh installed. Would appreciate help getting from there to sudo, since my user still cannot use sudo yet.	17:25
timeless_xchat	sudo gainroot	17:26
*** aloril has joined #maemo		17:26
* sivang had to remove recaller since it somehow rejected calls		17:26
sivang	and started doing so just like this, out of the blue	17:26
* sivang also wonders why it uses .aac ?!		17:26
*** messerting has quit IRC		17:26
kwtm	sivang: I also had some problems with recaller and had to remove it. :P Some time ago, though; I can't remember what my problem was.	17:27
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:27
sivang	kwtm: it started rejecting calls like a madman, so it got removed.	17:28
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:28
timeless_xchat	sp3000 : looking forward to 9am tomorrow?	17:28
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:29
sp3000	timeless_xchat: my morning starts at 6am I think but yeah	17:29
*** messerting has joined #maemo		17:29
sp3000	you'll be flying still?	17:29
kwtm	timeless_xchat: Thank you for responding to my query about sudo. Are you able to help me?	17:30
timeless_xchat	in about an hour	17:30
timeless_xchat	kwtm: ask the channel	17:31
*** th3hate has joined #maemo		17:31
timeless_xchat	i disappear randomly, sometimes for hours (flight coming...)	17:31
sp3000	oh, you'll be like right on time then	17:31
kwtm	timeless_xchat: I already had rootsh installed (and I can do all things as the superuser); but when I try to execute sudo (e.g. "sudo ls") it states that I do not have permission.	17:31
sp3000	brb, milking cow	17:31
kwtm	I believe that I need to edit the sudoers file, but do not have details on this.	17:31
kwtm	Google fails to isolate the correct web page at maemo.org	17:31
sp3000	or shopping for foor, whatever, same result	17:32
timeless_xchat	kwtm "sudo gainroot"	17:32
sp3000	food even	17:32
timeless_xchat	not "sudo whatever"	17:32
timeless_xchat	kwtm "sudo gainroot"	17:32
timeless_xchat	not "sudo whatever"	17:32
timeless_xchat	kwtm "sudo gainroot"	17:32
timeless_xchat	not "sudo whatever"	17:32
sp3000	(less moo though)	17:32
kwtm	timeless_xchat: You did mention "sudo gainroot" which I had already tried, but tried again just in case I missed something.	17:32
timeless_xchat	kwtm : ls is busybox	17:32
kwtm	timeless_xchat: it appears to give me a root prompt.	17:32
timeless_xchat	you can't make it su	17:32
timeless_xchat	it gets pissy	17:32
timeless_xchat	writing a sudoers file is fairly trivial	17:33
* marienz eyes the spammer		17:33
timeless_xchat	i've done it a dozen times	17:33
kwtm	timeless_xchat: I agree that it would be trivial for you. Perhaps you could give me some pointers? E.g. where should the file be located, and what should its contents be?	17:33
timeless_xchat	/etc/sudoers.d/	17:34
timeless_xchat	but there's a perfectly good manual page for it	17:34
kwtm	"/etc/sudoers.d/" appears to be a directory, but is there any particular file it should contain?	17:34
timeless_xchat	google really will work	17:34
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo		17:34
kwtm	Excellent! I will try again with google with that keyword.	17:34
kwtm	Thank you for the info, and also the info that you have done it dozens of times.	17:35
timeless_xchat	each file in there is added into sudoers	17:35
timeless_xchat	update-sudoers or whatever manages that	17:35
timeless_xchat	basically any file in there is an example. ..	17:35
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:36
kwtm	ah, so I would need to run the update-sudoers program as part of the trivial task of writing a sudoers file. Got it.	17:36
timeless_xchat	could someone please give david galindo a better icon for "calculus"?	17:37
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:37
timeless_xchat	if you use the directory (as you should...)	17:37
*** djdm has quit IRC		17:37
timeless_xchat	ooh, a catorize ui?	17:38
kwtm	Okay, the manual page appears to list parameters that I do not need to learn right now, so I have instead gone and checked my desktop linux installation and see now that what I need to do is echo "%sudo ALL=(ALL) ALL" > /etc/sudoers , so I will try that.	17:39
timeless_xchat	don't do that	17:39
timeless_xchat	don't do that	17:39
timeless_xchat	don't do that	17:39
*** Erod has joined #maemo		17:39
*** The\|Avatar has quit IRC		17:39
kwtm	Oh, what sort of negative consequences are there for doing this?	17:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:40
timeless_xchat	if you mess up, your device won't work?	17:40
timeless_xchat	you're replacing a file the system uses	17:40
sivang	timeless_xchat: what's that thing with the icon? :)	17:40
timeless_xchat	the reason there's a directory for such files	17:40
timeless_xchat	and a management script	17:40
*** machia has quit IRC		17:41
timeless_xchat	is to enable safe management and coexistence	17:41
timeless_xchat	you're stomping on all existing users	17:41
timeless_xchat	which is braindead	17:41
kwtm	Ah, I see now. I've managed to locate http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access (apparently it's "sudser" and not "sudoer"??)	17:41
marienz	...I hope not	17:41
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:41
timeless_xchat	whenever you see a single greater than, think "i'm not looking before i'm leaping, this will probably be very bad"	17:42
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		17:42
* timeless_xchat shakes head		17:42
timeless_xchat	if you don't understand how sudoers works, don't touch!!	17:42
kwtm	I am continuing to read the sudoers file manual in the meanwhile, but need to make sure I understand it correctly because there are no examples.	17:42
timeless_xchat	a phone is a terrible thing to waste	17:42
kwtm	timeless_xchat: Well, naturally, I would agree. I came to this IRC channel to understand how sudoers works.	17:43
timeless_xchat	~ $ ls -l /etc/sudoers.d\|wc -l	17:43
timeless_xchat	14	17:43
timeless_xchat	your mileage may vary	17:43
timeless_xchat	but that's roughly a dozen examples	17:43
timeless_xchat	free with every n900	17:43
timeless_xchat	maybe only 8 or 9 come with the device	17:44
timeless_xchat	a bunch of apps have apparently supplemented my set	17:44
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		17:44
sivang	timeless_xchat: he can always reflash ;p	17:45
kwtm	timeless_xchat: that appears to have a different approach than what I am familiar with: apparently each command needs to be sudo enabled separately?	17:45
* DocScrutinizer pipes timeless_xchat \| uniq again. First warning!		17:45
timeless_xchat	kwtm : read each file	17:45
timeless_xchat	and learn how to use dpkg -S	17:46
kwtm	timeless_xchat: In other words, for example, I could not use that approach to read/write to a privileged directory with piping in the middle fo a shell script?	17:46
kwtm	timeless_xchat: Currently reading each file now.	17:46
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		17:46
lindi-	that sudoers.d is some maemo thing I guess, does visudo support editing those?	17:46
timeless_xchat	offhand, it sounds like you want to do something incredibly dangerous	17:47
kwtm	It is difficult to get an overall sense of how this works from each individual file, but am I correct above that each command is separately specified? For example, I don't see a listing for "ls"...	17:47
timeless_xchat	Sudoers Manual	17:47
*** AcTiVaTe has quit IRC		17:47
timeless_xchat	sudo will read each file in /etc/sudoers.d, skipping file names that end in ~ or contain a . character to avoid …	17:47
kwtm	timeless_xchat: Not necessarily "incredibly dangerous". From time to time one would need to do something as su, and I'd rather specifically make each line sudo rather than run a whole script as root.	17:48
timeless_xchat	www.sudo.ws/sudo/sudoers.man.html	17:48
timeless_xchat	lindi : i don't know why you'd call that "maemo" specfic. ..	17:48
lindi-	ah indeed "Note that unlike files included via #include, visudo will not edit the files in a #includedir directory unless one of them contains a syntax error. It is still possible to run visudo with the -f flag to edit the files directly."	17:48
lindi-	timeless_xchat: probably because I was mistaken :)	17:48
kwtm	Okay, maybe I'm making a wrong assumption here: does the sudo command allow me to run one command as root (e.g. "I want to do 'ls' as root rather than as user")? Or is it for specific commands.	17:48
*** jrocha has quit IRC		17:49
timeless_xchat	read the F***** manual	17:49
timeless_xchat	and keep in mind that it doesn't allow "you"	17:49
kwtm	timeless_xchat: wow, I never thought someone would actually say that literally to me.	17:49
timeless_xchat	it allows (generally ) anything on a given device	17:49
timeless_xchat	i've never written it out before either...	17:50
*** avs has quit IRC		17:50
lindi-	seems #includedir was implemented in 2009-04-18	17:50
kwtm	timeless_xchat: But, anyway, as I said, I am currently reading it. It describes the definitions and aliases etc., but I am trying to figure out what it all means put together.	17:50
timeless_xchat	but i just pasted a manual link for lindi a few lines ago	17:50
timeless_xchat	lindi : maemo uses update-sudoers, not #include iirc	17:50
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		17:50
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		17:50
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: (sudo will read each file in /etc/sudoers.d) doesn't apply to maemo's weird 'increased security' boot slowdown update-sudoers sheme though	17:51
timeless_xchat	kwtm : keep in mind that sudo is designed to enable "least privilege"	17:51
kwtm	For example, "user definitions" ... what would it take to allow a given user, such as "user", to run root commands? I'm trying to sort out what I need to do from other info that is not directly relevant. For example, I don't think aliases are relevant at this point.	17:51
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : err, do we do that at boot?!	17:51
* timeless_xchat always saw it in postinst/prerm		17:51
DocScrutinizer	lindi-: checking files in sudoers.d with visudo is exactly what update-sudoers is all about	17:51
timeless_xchat	or whatever	17:51
kwtm	Also it talks about User_Spec ::= User_List Host_List '=' Cmnd_Spec_List \	17:52
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: yes	17:52
kwtm	(':' Host_List '=' Cmnd_Spec_List)*	17:52
kwtm	I am trying to figure out if the backslash at the end of the first line is a continuation (ie. without it I can put both lines on a single line) or whether it is "or" or whether it is required.	17:52
timeless_xchat	kwtm : if you're actually concerned about other processes on your device	17:52
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		17:52
kwtm	etc. etc.	17:52
kwtm	I presume User_List is the name of a list of users --can I put a single user name on there? If it is asking for a list, is it a list separated by spaces, or commas, or the NAME of a list? etc. etc.	17:53
timeless_xchat	then having a bunch of magic commands which more or less write arbitrary data to restricted directories is probably a bad idea	17:53
lindi-	timeless_xchat: ah, I can't find update-sudoers from debian. so maybe that was the maemo specific part?	17:53
kwtm	I therefore came to this forum hoping to get specififc examples.	17:53
timeless_xchat	the n900 runs almost everything as "user"	17:53
timeless_xchat	lindi : that part might be	17:53
timeless_xchat	lindi : .d/ directories grow in debian "late"	17:53
DocScrutinizer	lindi-: exactly	17:53
timeless_xchat	it's standard "we can't see beyond the tip of our nose"	17:54
kwtm	timeless_xchat: True, and I run almost everything as "user", but there are a number of things that require "root" to run. Instead of typing in each command at the command line, I'd rather put it in a script. That way I can look it over and proofread before I actually run it.	17:54
timeless_xchat	"just because every other thing needed a .d/ doesn't mean we should get it right for the next thing we invent"	17:54
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: we aren't evry inclined to give examples how to do the wrong thing. That's why we try to teach you about how sudo is supposed to be used	17:55
timeless_xchat	kwtm : sure, but it might be better to have a script than really long commands in a sudoers file	17:55
opdf2	is there anyway to portrait mode the task switcher?	17:55
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: yesone thing's for sure. sudo never was meant to enable arbitrary commands to user, without any password query	17:56
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: It sounds like you are saying that using a script is the wrong approach, and you think it would be better to type in the commands individually, is that correct? I must say I'm a bit nervous about doing that.	17:56
DocScrutinizer	err kwtm ^^^	17:56
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		17:56
timeless_xchat	it sounded like you wanted to split a script of 20 lines into 7 sudo commands inside that same script	17:56
timeless_xchat	that's wrong	17:56
kwtm	timeless_xchat: I would agree, but isn't that what I'm saying, that we should have a script instead?	17:56
crashanddie	deaf people having a conversation, always entertaining.	17:57
kwtm	timeless_xchat: What do you meanm split a script of 20 lines into 7 sudo commands? Not sure how you understand me, but perhaps I can give a use case.	17:57
kwtm	crashanddie: Thanks. :P	17:57
timeless_xchat	just write the script so it is well owned, protected against writes and properly handles input...	17:57
timeless_xchat	a use case does tend to help	17:57
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		17:57
crashanddie	in the script, just check that uid == 0, and you're done	17:58
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: What do you mean? Sudo has no password query? I was hoping to rely on that for protection. If so, then sudo is not the command I'm looking for.	17:58
crashanddie	it can only be run by root or sudo.	17:58
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: you're referring to #maemo ? :-D	17:58
timeless_xchat	crashanddie : hey, i like sign language conversations	17:58
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: haha :D	17:58
lindi-	kwtm: you can configure sudo to ask for password or not	17:58
timeless_xchat	so much more expressive than finnish poker faces	17:58
crashanddie	timeless_xchat: I didn't smash them, I just said they were "entertaining".	17:58
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: On my desktop linux, sudo asks for password. Does it not do this on the N900?	17:58
timeless_xchat	it doesn't	17:58
timeless_xchat	user doesn't have a password	17:58
kwtm	lindi-: Oh, I see. So is it configured by default to ask for password or not?	17:58
kwtm	timeless_xchat: What do you mean? My sudo asks for password.	17:59
timeless_xchat	your device wouldn't be usable if it did...	17:59
lindi-	kwtm: at this point I must confess I'm not using maemo...	17:59
crashanddie	kwtm: one thing you may want to learn about real-time conversation: get a grip on the discussion thread, you're all over the place mate.	17:59
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: I thought you wrapped your head around that enough to understand that this depends on /etc/sudoers.d/yourconfig	17:59
kwtm	timeless_xchat: My device says: "Enter password" (and then I enter password) then "error: 'user' is not allowed to do /bin/ls" or something like that...	17:59
kwtm	crashanddie: Sorry, must be the lag in this internet connection.	17:59
*** Guest76570 has joined #maemo		18:00
timeless_xchat	~ $ grep user /etc/passwd	18:00
crashanddie	kwtm: not my point, just don't ask the same question to different people, it really doesn't help.	18:00
timeless_xchat	user:*:29999:29999::/home/user:/bin/sh	18:00
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: see http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools for setting ip proper sudoers config to ask for ROOT password when doing root privileged commands	18:00
timeless_xchat	kwtm : sudo isn't particularly intelligent	18:00
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : don't confuse people	18:01
DocScrutinizer	oh yea	18:01
DocScrutinizer	BLARGH	18:01
timeless_xchat	and s/ip/up/ ;)	18:01
*** tackat has quit IRC		18:02
DocScrutinizer	keys close enough on almost all kbd layouts	18:02
* timeless_xchat is using an n900, what's your excuse?		18:02
*** marcels has quit IRC		18:02
kwtm	timeless_xchat: I think you're quoting from your password file to tell me that user has no password, right? But you're quoting from your password file, right? Mine says "user:wig2bDfifuJiewre:29999:29999::/home/user::/bin/sh	18:03
kwtm	I mean, I set a password for user, in case it hasn't been clear.	18:03
DocScrutinizer	this mega idiocy to ask for USER password when doing 'sudo rm -rf /' - I DON'T GET IT	18:03
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Ahh, I see what you are saying now: it should be the ROOT password it asks for?	18:03
DocScrutinizer	YES	18:03
*** Wamanuz2 has joined #maemo		18:03
timeless_xchat	kwtm : setting a password for the user account on the n900 is um... odd	18:03
sivang	DocScrutinizer: this always amazed me as well	18:04
timeless_xchat	you can do it, but why?	18:04
timeless_xchat	it isn't well encrypted	18:04
sivang	timeless_xchat: wouldn't it affect all sorts of stuff like our poor HAM?	18:04
kwtm	Okay, I am beginning to understand you now.	18:04
timeless_xchat	which means anyone who picks it up now knows the cleartext	18:04
timeless_xchat	ignoring that, it generally isn't checked	18:04
sivang	DocScrutinizer: really mega idiocy	18:04
timeless_xchat	~ $ sudo ls	18:05
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:05
timeless_xchat	Password:	18:05
timeless_xchat	it's still asking me for a password	18:05
timeless_xchat	and we've already established that i don't have one	18:05
DocScrutinizer	sivang: refer to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools for an easy fix	18:05
timeless_xchat	using a password means anyone can ssh to user@	18:05
*** Wamanuz has quit IRC		18:06
timeless_xchat	w/o a password, ssh to user@ is disabled (well, you could set up an ssh key)	18:06
pupnik_	oops i didn't know that, ty timeless_xchat	18:06
timeless_xchat	(this assumes you foolishly install sshd)	18:06
pupnik_	but i like sshing to the n900	18:07
sivang	timeless_xchat: right, that is why I take care not to set it up	18:07
sivang	timeless_xchat: disable challange passwords	18:07
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: aiui you can even 'passwd user' and still sudoers is enabling proper working maemo	18:07
kwtm	Okay, then let me back up: to prevent typos and other silly mistakes, what is the best way to run a series of commands as root? Type them in individually? (risk of typos) Put it in script file and run script file as root? (able to redo commands easily if need to repeat the process, but risks running many commands as root whereas only a few lines need root privileges) Use sudo with root password? (seems to be best but apparently	18:07
kwtm	you are saying that it has drawbacks)	18:07
DocScrutinizer	as it always has NOPASSWD in all enabled commands	18:07
crashanddie	timeless_xchat: and exactly how is not being able to ssh to user better than being able to ssh to root?	18:08
lcuk	kwtm, best way is to write your script and package it up	18:08
lcuk	so that you can reproduce it simply by installing	18:08
lcuk	:)	18:08
lcuk	and then others also get benefits	18:08
timeless_xchat	crashanddie : password based root is also stupid	18:08
crashanddie	timeless_xchat: and it's what the default install of openssh-server does.	18:08
SpeedEvil	how is it stupid?	18:08
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: using sudo with root pw is safe and sane	18:08
timeless_xchat	what lcuk described is what i did...	18:08
sivang	crashanddie: true, it should use pub/priv key and have the challange passwd disabled	18:09
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: no it's not	18:09
lcuk	timeless_xchat, thats because you are smart :)	18:09
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : it isn't	18:09
sivang	crashanddie: and be abel to import keys from a usb stick inserted to it actong as OTG	18:09
lindi-	just don't ever forget your terminal unlocked or somebody might alias sudo="/usr/bin/sudo rm -fr /"	18:09
sivang	crashanddie: ;)	18:09
timeless_xchat	remember, we aren't using strong password hashing	18:09
kwtm	lcuk: I am not familiar with packaging, and also I am more referring to maintenance scripts (e.g. a script to backup everything to home server --that one doesn't need root privileges, of course) so it's not necessarily installing a package. Do I really need to learn how to package before I can run root commands reliably?	18:09
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: on an n900, maybe. But it really doesn't do anything else than su -c	18:09
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: aha, why?	18:09
lcuk	kwtm, a backup script would be better inside extras :)	18:09
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : there isn't an /etc/shadow	18:09
lcuk	that way after you have backed up and do a normal restore	18:10
DocScrutinizer	meh	18:10
DocScrutinizer	ok	18:10
timeless_xchat	read about the history of that file	18:10
lcuk	it can install all your scripts back	18:10
crashanddie	lindi-: rm -rf / doesn't work	18:10
timeless_xchat	why it exists, etc	18:10
lcuk	kwtm, reproducability without scrabbling for command line options ;)	18:10
kwtm	lcuk: That is an example, but for example the backup script won't know how and when to log on to my home server and rsync which files, etc.	18:10
lindi-	crashanddie: I don't think that is the point :)	18:10
timeless_xchat	lindi : fwiw, the sun people actually spent the time proving that command should error	18:10
timeless_xchat	and theirs does	18:10
lcuk	kwtm, it will be if you also backup the backup script configuration options :P	18:10
lindi-	crashanddie: feel free to add a /* there :)	18:10
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: I know about shadow	18:10
crashanddie	lindi-: :)	18:10
lcuk	the maemo backup is surprisingly good at things like that	18:10
DocScrutinizer	just consider this a minor threat compared to allowing sudo gainroot without any pw query	18:11
timeless_xchat	yeah, while we all like to bash maemo backup	18:11
timeless_xchat	it actually is handy	18:11
kwtm	lcuk: Also, am I really limited to "backup" (that was just an example) and need to get "a backup script" --what about all other possible scripts I could write, like "keep a record of cell phone signal strength" etc. --I might not be able to find a script to package for that....	18:11
timeless_xchat	docscrutinizer : the time to crack passwd isn't significant today	18:11
lcuk	kwtm, put all those other scripts into a kwtm tools package :)	18:12
timeless_xchat	so from a security perspective, it isn't worth having	18:12
lcuk	and store it on a git somewhere	18:12
sivang	why is it based actually? apart for some small erros during the restore the break application restoration ti works quite nice	18:12
timeless_xchat	you're enabling shoulder surfing	18:12
*** Bash is now known as bsh_nohighlight		18:12
DocScrutinizer	timeless_xchat: crashanddie: I never claimed installing proper root password is the ultimate safety solution, I just say it's megatons better than it's now	18:12
kwtm	lcuk: So you feel that I should learn to create packages ... wouldn't that take even longer than the other options I listed?	18:12
timeless_xchat	sivang : it doesn't handle semi common edge cases	18:12
lcuk	kwtm, every jedi must build his own light sabre	18:12
kwtm	lcuk: Oh, I need to run a git server?	18:12
timeless_xchat	like recursive symlinks	18:13
lcuk	kwtm, not at all	18:13
lcuk	plenty of communal git hosting places	18:13
lcuk	even maemo.org :)	18:13
lcuk	gitorious	18:13
MohammadAG51	gitorious.org ftw	18:13
lcuk	github	18:13
lcuk	etc	18:13
lcuk	etc	18:13
lcuk	et	18:13
sivang	timeless_xchat: ah, I see	18:13
timeless_xchat	bsh: lol	18:13
kwtm	kwtm: not trying to become a jedi, just trying to install some CJK packages.	18:13
sivang	timeless_xchat: where do we have them on the fs?	18:13
MohammadAG51	it took me 5 minutes to do my first push	18:13
timeless_xchat	sivang : the restore behavior also fails	18:13
timeless_xchat	sivang : not out of the box	18:13
sivang	timeless_xchat: yes, I've experienced that yesterday	18:13
DocScrutinizer	WTF is everybody stuttering today?	18:13
timeless_xchat	or it wouldn't have shipped	18:13
timeless_xchat	the single sign on people tripped on it	18:14
lcuk	MohammadAG51, :) glad you have gotten over your git duck	18:14
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: w.w.w.w..w.what?	18:14
lcuk	its very useful	18:14
kwtm	lcuk: We might have gotten away fmro the original topic. I'm not sure how hosting my packages (or creating one will help) --so, you're saying packaging will allow me to run things as root in a more secure manner than su or sudo?	18:14
timeless_xchat	so when i say wouldn't have shipped, i mean it	18:14
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-03 17:13:24] <lcuk> etc	18:14
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-03 17:13:24] <lcuk> etc	18:14
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-03 17:13:25] <lcuk> et	18:14
timeless_xchat	they had to change their impl because backup is stupid	18:14
kwtm	lcuk: Recall that I am actually not trying to distribute a script. I'm just running my own script so I can do it again easily if I need to. The scripts aren't for anyone else.	18:14
sivang	timeless_xchat: oh, that is something else	18:14
sivang	timeless_xchat: a bit drastic	18:15
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-03 16:39:45] <timeless_xchat> don't do that	18:15
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-03 16:39:49] <timeless_xchat> don't do that	18:15
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-03 16:39:50] <timeless_xchat> don't do that	18:15
lcuk	kwtm, every script you write has one user: yourself, and you ARE trying to distribute it, because you will have problems after you reflash remembering yourself what you needed to do to configure it	18:15
timeless_xchat	sivang : i know where nearly all of the skeletons are hidden :)	18:15
crashanddie	/!\ Floodwarning@#maemo!DocScrutinizer /!\	18:15
SpeedEvil	[2011-11-03 18:22:34] <speedevil> Finally - PR1.3!	18:16
kwtm	lcuk: I see. SO I should have a package, you're saying, and if I need to reflash, then I reinstall the package and run it again, right?	18:16
lcuk	making it a package allows you to just dpkg -i it back or install directly from HAM as part of your other restoration stuff	18:16
timeless_xchat	kwtm : you can use Mydocs as your "distribution" source fwiw	18:16
*** fecub has joined #maemo		18:16
timeless_xchat	but a webserver is better	18:16
DocScrutinizer	SYSTEM DOWN FOR MAINTENANCE warning to channel	18:16
sivang	timeless_xchat: so there's an app set that can create recursive symlink that will fail the backup that I can test? :)	18:16
kwtm	lcuk: But doesn't that mean I can't run the script twice? The second time dpkg -i will say "you already installed that package".	18:16
lcuk	yeah kwtm and if its sudo requiring, add a line in sudoers to run it without password	18:16
MohammadAG51	SYSTEM OF A DOWN?	18:16
MohammadAG51	oh, system down, meh	18:16
timeless_xchat	sivang : there are some bugs in bugs.maemo listing apps which trip on it	18:17
timeless_xchat	iirc one was a mail app	18:17
sivang	timeless_xchat: heh	18:17
sivang	timeless_xchat: that's a-nough of a hint :)	18:17
timeless_xchat	there's also a demo package in timeless.justdave.net/maemo	18:17
kwtm	lcuk: ?? But that is the question I am asking: "How do I add a line in sudoers to run it" (not necessarily without a password, but if necessary). I was originally asking about the sudoers manual.	18:17
timeless_xchat	from memory two or three real apps hit it	18:17
lcuk	lol	18:17
*** Flipi\|BNC is now known as Flipi		18:18
*** lbt is now known as lbt_away		18:18
kwtm	It appears that the manual uses some notation I am not used to ... I think "\|" means "or", not pipe. But am still muddling through this...	18:18
timeless_xchat	plus single sign on ("fixed" before it shipped )	18:18
timeless_xchat	kwtm : write a file in sudoers.d/	18:18
timeless_xchat	and use update-sudoers	18:18
*** th3_4zarado has left #maemo		18:18
lcuk	kwtm, I just added the following into my package http://github.com/lcuk/liqbase-playground/blob/master/liqbase_base_fs/etc/sudoers.d/liqbase-playground.sudoers	18:19
timeless_xchat	the file matches the syntax of the existing files	18:19
lcuk	and in the postinst run updatesudoers	18:19
lcuk	http://github.com/lcuk/liqbase-playground/blob/master/debian/postinst#L21	18:19
*** klasu__ has joined #maemo		18:19
timeless_xchat	http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2010/1003/US-issues-travel-alert-for-Americans-in-Europe	18:19
timeless_xchat	:(	18:19
timeless_xchat	it happened	18:19
kwtm	timeless_xchat: That much is understood. What I need help with is the format of the sudoers file. Yes, I see that there are many examples, but none match exactly what I think I want, so I am hp=oping to UNDERSTAND what the format is instead of just copying frmo other files.	18:20
kwtm	lcuk: Okay, so I should download that file you listed and check the format?	18:20
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: check http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools, it will set up proper password query for root access. then you can add similar lines like >>user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/led-pattern-helper *<< in /etc/sudoers.d/led-pattern-editor.sudoers to your own file there	18:20
lcuk	kwtm, just look at it, its text file the link shows contents	18:20
timeless_xchat	kwtm : i'd suggest you not rely on arguments	18:20
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: Thanks, reading that web page now...	18:20
timeless_xchat	and instead have a dedicated script which sanity checks args	18:21
crashanddie	timeless_xchat: bollocks	18:21
*** maybeHere has joined #maemo		18:21
timeless_xchat	then just whitelist the file	18:21
lcuk	kwtm, for full docs: http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/sudoers.man.html	18:21
lcuk	i believe	18:21
*** maybeArgh has quit IRC		18:21
timeless_xchat	keep in mind that maemo doesn't ship the latest version of sudo	18:21
crashanddie	timeless_xchat: they're just on high alert because france went to high alert because some french idiots were kidnapped in nigeria	18:21
timeless_xchat	so you might want to avoid group tricks	18:21
lcuk	the basics should be there i bet	18:21
kwtm	lcuk: Am reading that manual. Apparently it says the lines should look something like this: "User_Spec ::= User_List Host_List '=' Cmnd_Spec_List" However I don't see any "::=" in the sudoers files so I think it's using a different format.	18:22
kwtm	Okay, sorry, my toddler just got up so I have to go take care of him now. WIll leave this IRC still up so I can review responses. Thx.	18:22
timeless_xchat	lcuk : oh it says "major" - i'm fine then ;)	18:22
timeless_xchat	kwtm : you need to google "bnf"	18:23
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: listen to what timeless_xchat suggests: create a script doing all you need in e.g /usr/local/sbin, set it to chmod og-rw, add a line to sudoers.d/yourfile to invoke that script by 'sudo myscript'	18:23
crashanddie	kwtm: defined to be	18:23
timeless_xchat	you want the wikipedia entry or something	18:23
sivang	lcuk, DocScrutinizer : is this documented somewhere more than just snippets? maybe we could add some writeup about this from someone who understands this top-bottom?	18:23
*** shinkamui has joined #maemo		18:23
lcuk	kwtm, you are reading the grammar rules which are used to create the parser, that is not the expected line format	18:23
DocScrutinizer	sivang: what exactly now?	18:24
lcuk	continue reading :P	18:24
timeless_xchat	sivang : it's like an instruction manual for a swiss army knife	18:24
sivang	DocScrutinizer: how to package a script that requires root/sudo access :)	18:24
timeless_xchat	i've never seen one	18:24
sivang	timeless_xchat: true	18:24
timeless_xchat	it's hardly useful	18:24
sivang	a'la maemo	18:24
timeless_xchat	just ask macgyver	18:24
lcuk	a'la linux	18:24
DocScrutinizer	sivang: meh, that's trivial really	18:24
timeless_xchat	anyway	18:25
timeless_xchat	i have a plane to consider	18:25
*** timeless_xchat has quit IRC		18:25
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		18:25
*** Dini has joined #maemo		18:26
*** avs has joined #maemo		18:26
*** Xisdibik has joined #maemo		18:26
sivang	DocScrutinizer: okay	18:26
DocScrutinizer	sivang: only particular maemo thing is update-sudoers, and you strictly are NOT supposed to edit /etc/sudoers	18:26
DocScrutinizer	use /etc/sudoers.d/* instead, add your own sudoers config there as a new file	18:27
DocScrutinizer	then run update-sudores and profit	18:27
MohammadAG51	listen to that advice	18:27
MohammadAG51	don't be a smartass like I did once	18:27
*** fipu has quit IRC		18:28
*** fecub has quit IRC		18:28
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:28
sivang	DocScrutinizer: that's for sure, I've never done it even on Ubuntu	18:30
sivang	MohammadAG51: I'm never a smartass :) I follow orders :-p	18:31
sivang	DocScrutinizer: if that's not on the wiki, may I go ahead and put it there?	18:31
sivang	MohammadAG51: ^^	18:31
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:32
*** sheepbat has quit IRC		18:32
sivang	so we have somewhere to direct people at?	18:32
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		18:32
*** mtnbkr has joined #maemo		18:33
*** Hush has joined #maemo		18:35
*** valgrind has joined #maemo		18:35
valgrind	uuh... a question...	18:35
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:35
valgrind	using xterm on 770 to enable usb hostmode, but folder are different from the guide on maemo	18:36
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:36
valgrind	why would the folder structure be different ?	18:36
*** cmvo1_ has joined #maemo		18:37
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:38
Jaffa	Anyone know if there's a bug open for "packages promoted to Extras-testing aren't showing up"?	18:39
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:39
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo		18:40
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:41
*** th3hate51 has joined #maemo		18:42
dRbiG	valgrind: 'cause nokia's linux 'distros' are just a set of random stuff patched and hacked together and they breake with the slightest touch of summer breeze ;)	18:42
dRbiG	valgrind: as for your question the randomness answers it	18:43
dRbiG	:)	18:43
valgrind	haah.. thanks..	18:43
valgrind	with the slighest touch of summer breeze	18:44
*** sheepbat has joined #maemo		18:44
valgrind	nerd peotry :)	18:44
satmd	pastry?	18:44
valgrind	:D	18:44
valgrind	pottery	18:44
dRbiG	honestly, maemo is the most f*cked up thing when it comes to coherence that i ever saw in unix world	18:45
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		18:45
*** th3hate has quit IRC		18:45
valgrind	well.. get even more fucked up when apps to enable usb hostmode fire off the wrong commands. and when i try manually im in a forest of folders that are incoherent with the online guides.	18:46
valgrind	its fun... but maybe too much fun	18:47
dRbiG	valgrind: they are incoherent with one another	18:47
dRbiG	it seems to me like nokia's been employing different dev teams at random intervals with no documentation passing	18:48
dRbiG	if there ever was documentation ;)	18:48
valgrind	so the hacker edition gets to be a hacker edition of a hacker edition :( just great	18:48
valgrind	well.. like the iPad.. still cool.. not working... but still cool :D	18:49
Chani	haha	18:49
dRbiG	hehe	18:49
dRbiG	good one :)	18:49
Chani	s/incoherent/inconsistent/ btw :)	18:49
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		18:50
valgrind	i learned classical english.. not the strange dialekt you are speaking :D	18:50
dRbiG	Chani: incoherent and inconsitent to be precise	18:50
dRbiG	:)	18:51
valgrind	i think we went off the cliff there :D	18:51
dRbiG	honestly, they designed an os and they use bind to make the dir structure hold together?	18:53
*** cmvo1_ has left #maemo		18:53
Chani	dRbiG: meep.	18:53
dRbiG	that would be perfectly okey if it were a quick community hack made by people who never saw each other in spare time between being paid and slacking	18:53
* Chani wonders what new fun meego will bring...		18:53
*** cmvo1 has joined #maemo		18:54
valgrind	hmm.. that would explain alot.	18:54
valgrind	but howcome i ran into a hardlink i couldnt access as root ?	18:54
valgrind	is that complete nonsense ??	18:54
Chani	ouch.	18:54
satmd	bye	18:55
*** satmd has quit IRC		18:55
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:55
pupnik_	i am seeing unexplainable things on my laptop OS	18:55
valgrind	"auch" and "bye" !! hahaha... like calling tele company support devision :D	18:55
*** mc_teo`` has joined #maemo		18:55
DocScrutinizer	sivang: (not on the wiki, may I go ahead) sure pal - why do you even ask?	18:55
valgrind	hmm.. my nokia 770 is beginning to feel like the ugly girlfriend you wont leave because you feel sorry for her.	18:57
valgrind	I will not give up	18:57
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		18:57
sivang	valgrind: oh dear, that's NOT good	18:58
sivang	valgrind: that is a very bad situation to be in.	18:58
DocScrutinizer	valgrind: (im in a forest of folders that are incoherent) find usually helps a lot	18:58
DocScrutinizer	sysfs nodes moving to a different subsystem but still keeping basename	18:58
valgrind	thanks :) Find.. ofcoarse. geee.. my unix knowledge is rusty. sorry.	18:58
valgrind	sysfs ??	18:59
sivang	DocScrutinizer: while I'm at it, is there a way without flasher to check if you are in R&D mode?	18:59
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo		18:59
DocScrutinizer	sure	18:59
DocScrutinizer	but don't ask me for the command offhand	19:00
DocScrutinizer	cal-tool -b?	19:00
sivang	DocScrutinizer: I'll research though apt-cache search ;)	19:01
DocScrutinizer	you'll find it when you grep /etc/init.d for some keywords I forgot	19:01
sivang	DocScrutinizer: that is enough, thanks	19:01
sivang	DocScrutinizer: btw the fact that I can do 'root' using the rootsh package does not put me into R&D yes?	19:01
DocScrutinizer	cal-tool: unrecognized option `--help'	19:02
DocScrutinizer	Usage: cal-tool [OPTIONS]	19:02
DocScrutinizer	Options:	19:02
DocScrutinizer	--get-rd-mode, -d Get R&D mode status	19:02
DocScrutinizer	sviabsolutely nope	19:02
DocScrutinizer	sivang: ^^	19:02
sivang	DocScrutinizer: yep, just found it by --help the cal-tool on the device	19:02
*** FireFly has joined #maemo		19:03
*** lcukn900 has joined #maemo		19:04
*** sleipnir has joined #maemo		19:06
DocScrutinizer	sivang: using root puts messybox into UID:root mode, nothing else	19:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:07
DocScrutinizer	ah, and just because I like it so much:	19:07
DocScrutinizer	~messybox	19:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:07
infobot	messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils	19:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:09
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:11
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:13
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:21
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:22
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:23
*** celesteh has quit IRC		19:24
*** Hush has left #maemo		19:28
*** tkharju has joined #maemo		19:31
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:31
*** tkharju has left #maemo		19:31
RST38h	Somebody ban him already, will you?	19:35
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:35
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:36
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo		19:38
c3l	why is this channel alive? didnt maemo merge with some other platform and form meego?	19:38
petteri	there are couple of n900 out there with maemo installed	19:38
c3l	oh, yeah. I didnt think too much there	19:39
RST38h	this channel is dead	19:39
RST38h	you have come to the wrong place	19:39
c3l	okay, so this is basically just the place for the obsolete maemo platform for the n900 (and earlier versions). meego is what it will be in the future?	19:40
pupnik_	or symbian? :)	19:40
Surfa	well maemo will stay as well as long as there are maemo 5 devices out there	19:41
*** messerting has quit IRC		19:41
Jaffa	c3l: MeeGo hasn't had anything resembling an app developer, let alone consumer, release.	19:41
Jaffa	c3l: Nokia's next device may well be labelled as running MeeGo, but effectively it is "just" Maemo 6 rebranded.	19:42
*** cmvo1 has quit IRC		19:42
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:43
pupnik_	If only one company offers meego phones, and only one meego phone (like with n900) - how big of an impact will it have?	19:43
c3l	oh I see. but wont meego be intel based instead of arm, or is it the other way around. so there will be some core differences?	19:43
c3l	any scheduled plans for nokias sucessor of the n900?	19:44
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: (ban) huh?	19:44
pupnik_	not much is announced c3l	19:44
villager	presumably meego will run on both intel and arm	19:44
DocScrutinizer	definitely meego will run on arm (as well)	19:45
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:45
pupnik_	much of the goodwill meego is getting in the community is because of the open-source support history of maemo, which is best of the major phone makers	19:45
*** th3ate_rx51 has joined #maemo		19:45
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		19:46
c3l	I see, thanks for clarifying :)	19:46
pupnik_	people can (and do) complain about things, but it was nokia who started out the modern tablet / smartphone era with the 800x480 N770	19:46
*** th3hate51 has quit IRC		19:46
DocScrutinizer	-N	19:46
pupnik_	oh y	19:46
villager	c3l: I think the successor is called Nokia N9, you could search for info on it...	19:47
pupnik_	though i suppose Sharp Zaurus has a better claim to that title	19:48
DocScrutinizer	o/	19:48
pupnik_	you had one right DocScrutinizer ?	19:48
DocScrutinizer	nope	19:48
DocScrutinizer	alas not	19:49
pupnik_	i didn't have the money for one	19:49
c3l	pupnik_: oh, thanks!	19:49
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		19:49
MohammadAG51	or the RX-71	19:50
pupnik_	I must admit i'm greedy for higher resolutions, tablet-sized devices	19:50
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		19:50
pupnik_	like a 770 that's all-bezel, where the protective case flips out to reveal a keyboard + trackpoint/dpad	19:50
pupnik_	i mean no-bezel	19:51
*** messerting has joined #maemo		19:51
pupnik_	(bitflip in brain)	19:51
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		19:51
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		19:52
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		19:52
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		19:53
RST38h	Admit it, you all want an iPad, sans the Apple logo	19:54
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:54
*** juk has joined #maemo		19:54
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		19:54
wmarone	RST38h: and sans iOS? sure.	19:55
juk	javispedro: libsdl-gles1.2-dev cannot be found what i do?	19:55
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		19:55
*** hannesw has quit IRC		19:55
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		19:56
*** mc_teo`` is now known as mc_teo		19:57
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		19:58
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		19:58
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		20:00
*** kW_ has joined #maemo		20:01
bsh_nohighlight	MohammadAG51, u there?	20:01
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		20:01
juk	Xephyr emulation is just toy, you can't actually test something like video game ...	20:01
*** c3l has left #maemo		20:02
crashanddie	toy?	20:02
RST38h	iOS is more Unix than Maemo or Meego	20:02
RST38h	BSD based, real Unix	20:02
crashanddie	nope	20:02
*** th3hate has joined #maemo		20:02
* RST38h climbs a tree just in case		20:02
crashanddie	not iOS, OSX is Unix certified (level 3?)	20:03
*** th3ate_rx51 has quit IRC		20:03
*** th3hate has quit IRC		20:05
bsh_nohighlight	guys is there anyway to open my sms conversations on the pc?	20:06
bsh_nohighlight	any way*	20:06
bsh_nohighlight	or export them in another readble format	20:06
*** bsh_nohighlight is now known as Bash		20:06
Surfa	new ovi suite should support it	20:06
Bash	hope so	20:07
Surfa	not matter of hope actually :)	20:07
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:08
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		20:08
*** choppa has joined #maemo		20:09
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		20:10
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		20:10
juk	alright how do you run something gui in scratchbox?	20:10
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:12
juk	even autocomlete not working in scratchbox, not talking about not displaying non ascii chars	20:12
*** Bash has quit IRC		20:12
*** marcels has joined #maemo		20:13
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:13
MohammadAG51	which target?	20:14
juk	alright which is tcl library	20:14
*** Bash has joined #maemo		20:15
juk	Hi, MohammadAG51, not quite comletely not working, i meant apt-get autocomlete	20:15
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo		20:15
*** akeripper has joined #maemo		20:16
*** vkvraju has joined #maemo		20:16
juk	Hi, MohammadAG51, not quite completely not working, i meant apt-get autocompletion	20:16
juk	target ARMEL	20:17
yacc	Any log of all signals that the app produce? I've got a new N900 and it would be great if I could even guess why it vibrates or plays signals, ...	20:17
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		20:17
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:18
MohammadAG51	you can't run a UI in armel, use your N900	20:18
*** Bash1 has joined #maemo		20:18
*** slonopotamus_ has joined #maemo		20:19
Jartza	maemo.org is down?	20:19
Bash1	Surfa, it doesnt work with the n900	20:19
*** Bash has quit IRC		20:20
MohammadAG51	infobot, maemodown	20:20
MohammadAG51	infobot, maemo-down	20:20
infobot	somebody said maemo-down was http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo-org-service-break-2010-10-03/	20:20
Bash1	says messaging is not supported with this version of the device software	20:20
juk	MohammadAG51: so scratchbox only for cli testing	20:20
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		20:20
Jartza	oh well	20:20
MohammadAG51	juk, yes, UIs can be tested in X86	20:21
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		20:22
DocScrutinizer	btw isn't it brilliant to have the announcement about maemo.org being down just exactly on maemo.org ? Muhahaha :-D	20:23
MohammadAG51	ROFL	20:24
vkvraju	Hi All	20:24
DocScrutinizer	just as funny as recommending to 'man man' to learn how to install mandb	20:24
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:25
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:26
DocScrutinizer	anybody got a copy of http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo-org-service-break-2010-10-03/ so we could put it somewhere else, e.g. wiki.maemo.org, twitter, or whatever?	20:26
Surfa	Bash1, well, partly true	20:27
*** ptl has quit IRC		20:27
vkvraju	can anyone tell me if kernel-power is needed for swappolube app	20:28
Bash1	so downloading that was pointless then Surfa ?	20:28
vkvraju	and is swappolube app effective for you all	20:29
*** n00b_ has joined #maemo		20:29
Surfa	Bash1, not really	20:29
vkvraju	after my last reflash, I haven't installed any app except for rootsh and bash3. So, just curious to know if swappolube has anything to offer in my case	20:29
Bash1	explain Surfa	20:30
*** vkvraju has quit IRC		20:32
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:34
sivang	DocScrutinizer: hehe	20:35
sivang	hmm, is m.o down?	20:35
sivang	I just tried to save something o_O	20:36
*** sar3th\|znc has joined #maemo		20:36
slonopotamus_	... i shoul	20:37
slonopotamus_	err	20:37
*** sar3thz has joined #maemo		20:37
slonopotamus_	i should say that too, i think	20:37
slonopotamus_	maemo.o down?! wtf???	20:38
Jaffa	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/63411	20:38
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: There's your copy of the message, and the URL to point people to	20:38
slonopotamus_	-.-	20:39
*** ptl has joined #maemo		20:39
*** ptl has quit IRC		20:39
*** ptl has joined #maemo		20:39
slonopotamus_	7pm utc... 20mins left?	20:39
*** jonne\|reconnecte has quit IRC		20:39
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		20:39
slonopotamus_	no, 80	20:40
*** jonne\|reconnecte has joined #maemo		20:40
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| maemo.org service outage: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/63411"		20:40
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		20:40
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: thnx	20:40
slonopotamus_	DocScrutinizer, whazzup with maemo.org?	20:40
slonopotamus_	:P	20:40
* DocScrutinizer kicks slonopotamus_		20:41
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC		20:42
*** lcuk has quit IRC		20:43
slonopotamus_	my mom redirects dns to oter box that says 'we have expected downtime, see details at <url>' in such cases	20:43
slonopotamus_	s/oter/other/	20:43
infobot	slonopotamus_ meant: my mom redirects dns to other box that says 'we have expected downtime, see details at <url>' in such cases	20:43
DocScrutinizer	that's hard to establish for a worldwide DNS with load balancing	20:44
juk	how do i stop scratchbox session	20:44
DocScrutinizer	propagating of DNS thru the worldwide DNS service can take up to 24h	20:44
*** n00b_ has quit IRC		20:44
slonopotamus_	my mom reduces dns expiration time one-two days _before_ planned downtime :P	20:45
DocScrutinizer	you probably don't want to extend the 2h downtime by a 24h lead-in and a 24h lead-out	20:45
slonopotamus_	nevermind, i'm just in a good mood :)	20:46
DocScrutinizer	that's still insane for 2h	20:46
juk	what should i stop in order to close session in scratchbox	20:46
slonopotamus_	juk, ctrl+d?	20:46
slonopotamus_	define 'session in scratchbox'	20:47
juk	slonopotamus_: after login back it still says sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first	20:47
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, jacekowski, any ideas how to dump an sqlite3 database into csv?	20:47
slonopotamus_	juk, i think it wants you to kill processes	20:48
Kaadlajk	juk: sb-conf killall --signal=9	20:48
*** sar3th\|znc has joined #maemo		20:48
dRbiG	MohammadAG51: directly from sqlite3 client	20:48
dRbiG	MohammadAG51: don't remember the excact commands, but it goes like .format csv, .dump myfile.csv	20:48
juk	Kaadlajk: God bless you, smart people	20:49
*** slonopotamus_ is now known as slonopotamus		20:50
MohammadAG51	dRbiG, thanks :D	20:50
*** ZZzzZzzz1 has joined #maemo		20:50
*** tackat has joined #maemo		20:53
*** ZZzzZzzz_ has quit IRC		20:54
*** sleipnir has quit IRC		20:54
Goliath23	http://imagebin.ca/view/KzdvCKGG.html <- my first n900 widget :)	20:54
*** sar3th\|away has joined #maemo		20:54
dRbiG	Goliath23: looks nice - hmm, you're using qt for gui right?	20:55
Goliath23	not finished yet, though. if anyone wants to help, please just give me a note https://garage.maemo.org/projects/buliscores	20:55
Goliath23	dRbiG: yes, Qt and a QTableView	20:55
Goliath23	dRbiG: although they don'#t fully support translucent widgets. as soon as they support it I will make it semi-translucent to it blends nicer to the theme	20:56
dRbiG	hmm, yeah, i have 'figuring out transparency' on my hacking list	20:57
Goliath23	I have a lot of features in mind (support several leagues, sound and LED notification for goals, pull after push updates instead of simple pull, etc etc.)	20:57
Goliath23	maybe I should write them down as tasks in garage	20:57
*** juk has quit IRC		20:58
*** trumee is now known as zzztrumee		20:58
dRbiG	mhm, i need to figure out transparency too, but under gtk	20:58
*** sleipnir has joined #maemo		20:58
dRbiG	it is possible that's for sure	20:58
Goliath23	and I also want to use my server as a proxy to the real backend sites where the data is scraped. that way I can react if they change their layout. two options there: 1. implement the parser on the server or 2. make the server fake the old format	20:59
Goliath23	1. is probably better	20:59
Goliath23	and since I have to implement a server anyway, I can also put the parsing classes into it and send the widget some JSON objects which look the same no matter if kicker.de or somespanishsite.es is used	21:00
Goliath23	I'm just afraid that I need a bit coding help :)	21:00
*** marcels has quit IRC		21:02
Goliath23	how can I make a projechomepage on garage? do I have a shell access or something?	21:02
*** fipu has joined #maemo		21:03
*** pinheiro__ has quit IRC		21:03
*** pinheiro__ has joined #maemo		21:03
*** sleipnir has quit IRC		21:04
*** DrIDK has joined #maemo		21:06
*** jpe has joined #maemo		21:09
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		21:12
*** davyg has quit IRC		21:12
*** Chiku has quit IRC		21:14
*** sar3th\|away is now known as sar3th_		21:14
*** sar3th_ is now known as sar3th\|away		21:14
*** avs has quit IRC		21:14
*** sar3th\|away is now known as sar3th_		21:14
*** Zuccace has quit IRC		21:15
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		21:17
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		21:17
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:18
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		21:19
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:21
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		21:21
*** Noobmonk3y has joined #maemo		21:22
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		21:22
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:23
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		21:23
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC		21:23
*** sar3th_ is now known as sar3th		21:25
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:25
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		21:25
*** b0tz has quit IRC		21:26
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:27
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		21:27
*** Noobmonk3y has quit IRC		21:29
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:29
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		21:30
*** BCMM has quit IRC		21:31
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		21:31
*** onen\|openBmap has joined #maemo		21:34
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		21:35
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		21:35
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		21:35
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		21:36
*** cotigao has quit IRC		21:36
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		21:39
*** Zucca has joined #maemo		21:40
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:41
*** Smily has quit IRC		21:43
*** davyg has joined #maemo		21:46
*** andrei1089 has quit IRC		21:48
*** DrIDK has quit IRC		21:52
*** DrIDK has joined #maemo		21:52
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		21:54
Goliath23	I can't log into my garage shell. do I need to upload a key or so?	21:54
*** DrIDK has quit IRC		21:54
Jaffa	Goliath23: No shell access.	21:54
crashanddie	Goliath23: what made you think you had shell access?	21:56
crashanddie	~ping	21:57
infobot	~pong	21:57
DocScrutinizer	Goliath23: you need to register projects with gods of garage :-D	21:57
*** mc_teo` has joined #maemo		22:00
*** mc_teo` has joined #maemo		22:00
*** cjdavis1 has quit IRC		22:00
Goliath23	Jaffa, crashanddie, DocScrutinizer: the email I got was talking of shell access (now that I think about it, it also mentioned CVS as version control system -.-)	22:00
*** Vanadis has quit IRC		22:00
Goliath23	so how I	22:01
Goliath23	uhm	22:01
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		22:01
Goliath23	how do I edit my projects description / homepage	22:01
Goliath23	?	22:01
Goliath23	actually I just want to add a screenshot..	22:01
*** smooph1 has joined #maemo		22:01
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo		22:01
*** smooph has quit IRC		22:02
DocScrutinizer51	you dd html content to git err projectfrontpage folder, (or whatever it's called)	22:02
DocScrutinizer51	add*	22:02
Goliath23	git err projectfrontpage	22:02
Goliath23	err?	22:02
Goliath23	(i'm new to git, only svn experience so far)	22:03
*** mc_teo has quit IRC		22:03
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC		22:04
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		22:04
DocScrutinizer51	you can choose from SVN,git on Ur proj admin/CVS page	22:04
DocScrutinizer51	you add your ssh key somewhere there to enable upload	22:05
DocScrutinizer51	you can html-brove repo if enabled for public viewing	22:06
DocScrutinizer51	browse*	22:06
Goliath23	DocScrutinizer: ah, just read the starter document, I need a www directory!	22:06
Goliath23	thanks!	22:06
DocScrutinizer51	yw	22:07
Jaffa	Goliath23: Either upload it as a file, or create a 'www' directory in your VCS root and put whatever you want in there	22:07
Goliath23	Jaffa: ah, maybe screenshot upload as a file will do for now.	22:08
DocScrutinizer51	file? FQN?	22:08
Goliath23	thanks	22:08
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo		22:08
DocScrutinizer51	hmm, missed that	22:08
*** plq has joined #maemo		22:09
*** zzztrumee is now known as trumee		22:09
*** FatalSaint has quit IRC		22:11
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC		22:12
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC		22:12
DocScrutinizer51	crashanddie: maemo.org alive again?	22:13
crashanddie	no idea	22:13
crashanddie	was it down?	22:13
DocScrutinizer51	please clean topic just in case	22:13
crashanddie	k	22:13
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		22:13
ZogG	hey	22:13
*** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog"		22:14
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie		22:14
*** plq has quit IRC		22:14
*** b0tz has quit IRC		22:14
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo		22:14
*** avs has joined #maemo		22:19
*** trumee is now known as zzztrumee		22:20
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		22:21
*** doasyouaretold has joined #maemo		22:21
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		22:22
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		22:22
*** timeless_xchat has joined #maemo		22:24
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		22:24
timeless_xchat	hello world	22:24
MohammadAG	Portrait mode in settings app, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=832478#post832478	22:24
MohammadAG	I wonder what other apps can be patched quickly	22:25
*** geaaru has quit IRC		22:25
*** onen\|openBmap has quit IRC		22:26
timeless_xchat	jaffa : thumbs up for the description	22:27
*** choppa has quit IRC		22:29
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer,	22:31
MohammadAG	modified-hildon-desktop looks like hildon-desktop with modified sources	22:32
MohammadAG	I was expecting patches :(	22:32
*** FIQ has quit IRC		22:32
DocScrutinizer51	well, you know whom to pester, no?	22:32
*** avs has quit IRC		22:32
DocScrutinizer51	otoh the cpu hog patch might merge on mhd as well, just try?	22:33
timeless_xchat	jaffa : wah, launching here-and-now caused the browser to crash (internal error)	22:34
timeless_xchat	sp3000 : have you tried here-and-now?	22:34
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, lol he just posted a reply, http://my.svgalib.org/770/n900/hd-2.2.141/modified-hildon-desktop_3.1_armel.deb	22:35
DocScrutinizer51	wtf is here-and-now?	22:35
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, a nokia service, shows weather and probably other stuff that doesn't work in israel xD	22:35
DocScrutinizer51	err wut?	22:35
timeless_xchat	it's in at least -devel	22:35
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, mhd with latest git	22:35
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: ? with cpuhog killed?	22:35
timeless_xchat	mohammadag : nokia generally rolls out services in stages	22:35
timeless_xchat	typically .uk would be a good first stage	22:36
timeless_xchat	english market, small, easy to cover	22:36
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, latest git = yes	22:36
sp3000	timeless_xchat: it sounds ...exciting!	22:36
DocScrutinizer51	good :-D	22:36
MohammadAG	timeless_xchat, meh, won't expect anything from them in IL	22:36
MohammadAG	the N900 isn't officially on sale here, I imported mine from the US	22:37
* MohammadAG thanks Nokia for ignoring AT&T		22:37
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC		22:37
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: URL borked :-(	22:38
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, wfm	22:38
DocScrutinizer51	my.svgalib.org E nonexist	22:39
MohammadAG	lol for some reason it fails with wget	22:41
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, http://my.svgalib.org/770/n900/hd-2.2.141/modified-hildon-desktop_3.1_armel.deb works now	22:42
*** smooph1 has left #maemo		22:45
crashanddie	OK, if anyone ever feels like watching "Smokin' Ace"...	22:47
Stskeeps	'don't'?	22:48
Stskeeps	:P	22:48
crashanddie	well, watch it alone, then make your call	22:48
crashanddie	do NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, watch it with girlfriend/family prior to safescreening it	22:48
sp3000	watch it with a grizzly	22:48
sp3000	(a panda will do in a pinch)	22:49
*** fab has quit IRC		22:49
crashanddie	between bodies flying around a hotel lobby after being shot by a .50 cal, hardcore neo-nazi redneck idiots dying by falling on their own chainsaw, and people waking up in lakes finding their fingers chewed off...	22:49
crashanddie	well, you get the idea.	22:49
*** shinkamui has quit IRC		22:49
* MohammadAG calls gf and invites her over for a movie		22:50
crashanddie	you don't have a gf, numnuts	22:50
crashanddie	s/num/numb/	22:50
infobot	crashanddie meant: you don't have a gf, numbnuts	22:50
MohammadAG	you don't know what I have and what I don't have :P	22:50
crashanddie	you have an n900	22:50
* MohammadAG kicks crashanddie in the nuts		22:51
crashanddie	you don't have a n810	22:51
sp3000	timeless_xchat: well, it doesn't crash me	22:51
crashanddie	MohammadAG: now my nuts are numb :(	22:51
crashanddie	MohammadAG: looks like my reply on tmo kinda killed the thread, didn't it?	22:51
MohammadAG	crashanddie, no, it just proved that he's talking from his ass	22:52
timeless_xchat	sp3000 : any way to catch browser deaths?	22:52
timeless_xchat	they never seem to trigger crash reporter	22:52
crashanddie	timeless_xchat: probably because they're child processes	22:53
sp3000	well crash reporter catshes anything that cores	22:53
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2010/10/03/here_and_now_what_s_on_near_you_now	22:53
sp3000	if it's some case where it murders itself or something, maybe not	22:53
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		22:54
Jaffa	timeless_xchat: Don't blame me for your shitty browser; I'm using a well publicised API and pointing at a remote web site. If that can crash the thing, there're more worrying things than H&N now working ;-)	22:54
*** Flipi is now known as Flipi\|BNC		22:54
Jaffa	Although, having used the browser on a Blackberry and Symbian, microb's still pretty good.	22:54
crashanddie	Jaffa: have you tried the browser on bberies with the new tracking pad? (the ones that don't have the clit anymore)	22:58
Jaffa	crashanddie: I've got a Curve from work. It's got some kind of weird touch sensor thing.	22:58
crashanddie	the browsing experience is much improved I have to say	22:58
crashanddie	I have a 9700	22:58
crashanddie	whatever it may be, bold probably	22:58
MohammadAG	crashanddie, is there a time limit to reply with the source? (GPL)	22:59
crashanddie	no	22:59
MohammadAG	so he could be uploading sources for years?	22:59
crashanddie	indeed	22:59
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		22:59
*** nandu has quit IRC		23:01
*** zzztrumee is now known as trumee		23:01
*** florian has joined #maemo		23:04
*** rcampbell has quit IRC		23:05
*** b0tz has joined #maemo		23:10
MohammadAG	sigh @ skype calls	23:10
MohammadAG	1002 1 pulse R < 3932 1.6 39.1 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-priority	23:10
MohammadAG	2411 1 user S < 11884 4.8 30.0 /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-stream-engine	23:10
*** dos1 has quit IRC		23:10
MohammadAG	Load average: 3.62 3.58 3.20	23:10
*** trumee is now known as zzztrumee		23:11
crashanddie	this actually made me laugh out loud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx14mSUH1qQ	23:12
crashanddie	lcuk: you'll enjoy it	23:12
*** wazd has joined #maemo		23:18
*** norayr has quit IRC		23:19
MohammadAG	crashanddie, can't see anything "wrong" here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0475394/parentalguide	23:20
DocScrutinizer51	gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/ctrl_backspace_in_tasknav -t int 5 #AWESOME	23:20
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		23:21
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		23:23
*** ZenimNL has quit IRC		23:23
*** hurbu has quit IRC		23:24
*** Tscheesy has joined #maemo		23:26
*** jpe has quit IRC		23:28
*** murrayc has quit IRC		23:29
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		23:31
dsg	ugh, syncing with syncevolution clobbers SIP numbers for contacts	23:37
*** messerting has quit IRC		23:51
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer51: effect = ?	23:58
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	23:59
MohammadAG	Jaffa, you need modified hildon-desktop	23:59
DocScrutinizer	## new: with ctrl-BS for nice taskswitching, see	23:59
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Does SSU count?	23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!