| MohammadAG51 | h4waii, updated | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| daleglass | h4waii: just a personal thing of mine for the moment, not going to be in extras tomorrow or anything like that | 00:00 |
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| h4waii | MohammadAG51; Not fixed, thusfar. | 00:04 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: You did run depmod? Maybe it is just unstable with the power kernel or it does not lookup the module options in modprobe.d? You could try to delete the module with the rescue kernel http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd but I have not tried this yet. | 00:06 |
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| daleglass | tobis87: hm, that flashes the kernel though. I don't think it leaves the normal one in place? | 00:12 |
| daleglass | and that's a meego wiki, too | 00:12 |
| h4waii | What's the issue? | 00:13 |
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| tobis87 | "NOTE: Here we do not flash the kernel or initrd to the device, but only load them to the device memory during the boot. Original images are restored when the device is restarted. " | 00:13 |
| daleglass | I screwed up the boot scripts a bit too much, so I'm going to flash it | 00:13 |
| daleglass | ah, hm | 00:14 |
| tobis87 | But flashing should be more safe, since "WARNING: Improper use or installation of the image may harm your device" | 00:14 |
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| mece | I'm more into mooning than flashing, to be quite honest. | 00:15 |
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| h4waii | Mooning will arouse males and females, if done properly. | 00:15 |
| mece | exactly! | 00:16 |
| h4waii | It's a win-win situation. | 00:16 |
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| mece | and on that bombshell, it's time to say goodnight. | 00:16 |
| daleglass | what about streaking? | 00:16 |
| h4waii | That's just gross dude. | 00:16 |
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| tobis87 | thank you guys, I now know what mooning means... :-D | 00:16 |
| h4waii | You're a real pervert, daleglass | 00:16 |
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| daleglass | h4waii: I'll have to agree with that, being a furry and all ;-) | 00:17 |
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| ieatlint | furries are just disturbed people | 00:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | h4waii, fixed for me | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, writing to MyDocs seems to freeze device every time. Funny sidenote: even my desktop had one CPU core 100% busy with wa, in USB ass rage mode. N900 100% busy wa, ssh now frozen on starting htop, after it been working long time unaffected by even system tray clock stopped | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | now... "it's dead, Jim!" :-( | 00:21 |
| MNZ | math help needed: how would I convert from a frequency range (ex. 1mHz to 2mHz) into octaves? | 00:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | h4waii, so? | 00:23 |
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| tobis87 | mece: btw, do you have found out why you're modified libhildonfm likes to restart the device? | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | octave = freq * 2 | 00:24 |
| lcuk | MNZ, wikipedia | 00:24 |
| daleglass | ieatlint: I'm not going to argue that I'm pretty weird, whatever is the word that best describes my kind of it, heh | 00:24 |
| lcuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | err octave = 2 | 00:24 |
| lcuk | For example, if one note has a frequency of 400 Hz, the note an octave above it is at 800 Hz, and the note an octave below is at 200 Hz. The ratio of frequencies of two notes an octave apart is therefore 2:1. Further octaves of a note occur at 2n times the frequency of that note (where n is an integer), such as 2, 4, 8, 16, et | 00:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so f` = f0 * 1octave = f0 * 2 | 00:25 |
| ieatlint | daleglass: sorry, i don't mean to be offensive, but when someone tells me they are actually an animal in a human body, it exceeds my level of wanting to deal with it | 00:26 |
| ieatlint | and i've met just too many furries at parties and such | 00:26 |
| MNZ | so double the frequency = difference of one octave. I just can't go from there to 'arbitrary difference in frequency = x octaves' | 00:27 |
| daleglass | ieatlint: eh, I don't get that much into it. I just like the esthetics to put it in some way | 00:27 |
| tobis87 | about audio sampling and other interesting stuff: http://xiph.org/video/vid1.shtml | 00:28 |
| lcuk | bah ieatlint live and let live, some people wear business suits, some people wear shell suits, some people wear diving suits and others wear furry suits | 00:28 |
| ieatlint | dressing up is fine.. | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: f1 *2^x = f2 | 00:28 |
| ieatlint | it's just the psychological part that is simply ... ergh, not sure i want to put a name on it | 00:29 |
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| MNZ | DocScrutinizer, thanks | 00:30 |
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| lcuk | meh ieatlint, theres bigger problems in the world than worrying what other people are upto | 00:31 |
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| ieatlint | heh, more of an issue that i've dealt with people trying to convince me they're a squirrel than me trying to convince them they're not | 00:32 |
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| lcuk | ieatlint, why would you try to convince them they arent? | 00:33 |
| ieatlint | i didn't | 00:34 |
| lcuk | speaking of which | 00:34 |
| ieatlint | one learns very quickly to not try and convince people who think bizarre things that they are wrong | 00:34 |
| lcuk | i have a massive craving for peanuts now | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | pffft, had to rip out battery | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | shit! | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | now awaiting damaged VFAT | 00:36 |
| daleglass | people believe all kinds of bizarre things, hehe | 00:36 |
| * MohammadAG51 always restarts his N900 that way | 00:36 | |
| daleglass | I'm hoping the otakukin aren't real | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: you always got CPU @ 100% waiting for IO? | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka massively writing to eMMC? | 00:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, my tracker kicks in when battery's low | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, I wonder how to write to eMMC MyDocs at all? | 00:38 |
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| h4waii | MohammadAG51 - reboot after modest update isn't required. I restarted MCE - still no joy. | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | did you update the repos? | 00:41 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i'm sure it works mate | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | ii modest 3.90.7-2 an e-mail client for platforms with modest r | 00:42 |
| h4waii | I'm manually grabbing the package. I'm not using your meta package, so I have to edit the version in the control file | 00:42 |
| h4waii | -dbg isn't required, is it? | 00:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | nope | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | why not use the repo though? | 00:43 |
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| h4waii | I'm just a stickler like that. | 00:45 |
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| h4waii | There we go. | 00:45 |
| h4waii | plugin package version was wrong. Works now. Thanks for fixing it. | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, I was about to copy 1.2GB of mp3 from uSD to MyDocs, via mass storage mode. It created the folders on eMMC but didn't copy a single file, though device had *some* life until ~30min after I started the copy | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | wonder if my eMMC flash is borked | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | silicon gremlins | 00:49 |
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| sivang | rehi all, I couldn't stand the latency from my server so logged directly. | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | last time I tried similar thing directly on N900 xterm, with similar result - complete freeze after several minutes | 00:50 |
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| h4waii | What a bad idea that is. | 00:51 |
| h4waii | uSD -> eMMC is pure agony. | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you suggest I fill the eMMC from /dev/urandom, or what? | 00:52 |
| h4waii | I like psaux | 00:52 |
| daleglass | tobis87: bah, it doesn't seem to be useful. It boots, but no backlight, and automatically reboots after about 5 seconds | 00:52 |
| lcuk | hmm http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44673 | 00:53 |
| sivang | hmm, amazing lag | 00:53 |
| sivang | and counting. | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: talking gibberish? | 00:54 |
| h4waii | Always. | 00:55 |
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| MohammadAG51 | h4waii, np | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet Nokia has used 1GB eMMC that simply reports 32GB and brings device to a grinding halt on any serious effort to use more then the 1GB actually existent | 00:57 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: Oh, that is bad you will have to reflash. | 00:58 |
| daleglass | tobis87: doing that, yeah. A pain, but ah well. | 01:00 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, i once downloaded and gunzip'd a 200 MB-or-so file on mydocs, that also took _quite_ a while... (not the downloading) | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just started a new try: cp 10.2GB from laptop to MyDocs via USB | 01:03 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: lol | 01:03 |
| kerio | even when disabling the tracker?b | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol???? | 01:03 |
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| kerio | because i remember i had much better results by copying on a non-tracked dir | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: wtf are those 32GB for? | 01:03 |
| kerio | then i swiftly mved the files | 01:03 |
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| kerio | and then i deleted tracker's db because fuck tracker | 01:03 |
| h4waii | I thought tracker can't crawl a directory when it's in UMS | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah tracker - I killed tracker months ago | 01:04 |
| kerio | lol | 01:04 |
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| kerio | h4waii: 'twas rsync | 01:04 |
| h4waii | Oh :S | 01:04 |
| kerio | btw, os x fucks up the encoding when mounting with the usb cable | 01:04 |
| nox- | oh yeah the tracker/imageviewer also chewed quite some resources when i tried to put a html tree on the device, ended up using zipfiles + a python httpd hack... | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | HELL!!!! 16% | 01:05 |
| kerio | the filename encoding | 01:05 |
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| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/24/editorial-nokia-isnt-building-an-android-or-windows-phone-7-de/ | 01:05 |
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| wazd | hehe, looks like i was not the only pissed person in the world :D | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | 20% | 01:06 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: did you find a cause for the ridiculously slow copy? | 01:06 |
| h4waii | I talked with the author of that article at Nokia World | 01:06 |
| h4waii | He's the only decent Engadget writer | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 01:07 |
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| kerio | could it be that he's swapping while copying? | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe accessing uSD and eMMC concurrently is making it barf | 01:07 |
| kerio | try doing a swapoff :) | 01:07 |
| h4waii | LOL | 01:07 |
| h4waii | C'mon, it's shit IO. | 01:08 |
| daleglass | well, it booted. I'll mess with it more later. | 01:08 |
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| kerio | it is :( | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | 30% 4.0 of 13.2 | 01:08 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, i get some 1.5 MB/s scp'ing from/to the device iirc, maybe umass isnt really faster... | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Me too. | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | scp | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 50% | 01:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's 500MB/min | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | modulo buffers | 01:13 |
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| nox- | well thats at least faster than scp then | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | 75% | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3.3GB in 6min | 01:19 |
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| MNZ | I'm off, night folks! | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: cya | 01:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | done - 100% of 13.2GB | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems it's not the writing to eMMC but the reading from uSD that was the real problem? | 01:24 |
| sivang | irc session got hung up before- so backup /home an /MyDocs and I am good to go with reflashing for 1.2? | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: you don't need to reflash eMMC VANILLA image for a mere PR1.2 update | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | so neither your /home nor MyDocs will suffer | 01:26 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: okay, but I need to make enough room on rootfs for the OTA upgrade for pass? | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: you flash COMBINED image which has rootfs, and done | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | not if you're flashing | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | for OTA you might run into problems when too low free space on rootfs, yes | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but given the OTA SSU takes hours while a flashing plus restore apps from backup utility takes few minutes, I'd think twice | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | On packaging format debates: http://xkcd.com/ | 01:29 |
| nox- | OTA SSU doesnt take hours if you do it via (fast enough) wifi link btw | 01:29 |
| nox- | (or at least i dont remember waiting that long... :) | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | the hildon backup app does a pretty good job on restoring virtually all of your settings and apps after flashing. You'll lose anything installed via apt-get though | 01:30 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: good to know, having written hubackup I did not see too good backup apps for linux | 01:43 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: so just create a backup, rsync or cp MyDocs and /home and I did not install too much cruft using apt-get | 01:43 |
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| nox- | ah so dar is stable now? | 01:46 |
| * nox- once tried it and got a segfault or something like that (dont remember exactly, was a while ago :) | 01:47 | |
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| sivang | nox-: the dist archive? | 01:48 |
| sivang | *disk | 01:48 |
| nox- | disk archiver yeah | 01:49 |
| * nox- just looked up hubackup and saw it uses that... | 01:49 | |
| sivang | nox-: ah it was stable back then even | 01:50 |
| sivang | nox-: and it ubunut's main | 01:50 |
| sivang | nox-: but bindings for python were, how to say it? mostly inexistant | 01:50 |
| nox- | i c :) | 01:50 |
| sivang | nox-: so I used spawning and subproc controlling through pexpect which works nice | 01:50 |
| nox- | btw can it use xz yet? | 01:51 |
| sivang | nox-: xz? | 01:51 |
| nox- | compression | 01:51 |
| nox- | lzma based | 01:51 |
| nox- | http://tukaani.org/xz/ | 01:51 |
| sivang | I don't recall what dar uses but it does some really strong compression if you ask it to | 01:54 |
| sivang | zip based or so | 01:54 |
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| sivang | I am actually inclined to reflashj to learn how to do it the next time I may need it, is it better to OTA than reflash if one only needs OTA? | 01:57 |
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| lcukn900 | sivang good idea, like a scout :) | 01:59 |
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| sivang | lcukn900: yes, sooner or later, with all my planned tinkering with having a non one time run of meego on my device, I should know how to do it | 02:02 |
| sivang | lcukn900: as probably the reason I did not need it till now is that lack of tinkering, but I did install anything I could get my hands on from either OVI or extras-testing etc. | 02:03 |
| sivang | hmm, only one things remains- m joikuspot license | 02:03 |
| sivang | how can I maintain it? | 02:03 |
| sivang | it is somehow installed into the software /me checks settings file | 02:04 |
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| lcuk | sivang, not sure | 02:07 |
| sivang | lcuk: it is by far the most important piece of software I use on the device :) | 02:08 |
| lcuk | :) indeed, read the docs and check | 02:08 |
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| sivang | xz seems nice | 02:10 |
| sivang | bindings available for all sort of scripting languages I reckon? | 02:10 |
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| sivang | where can I read about the quality rules h-a-m enforces on packages insalled through it? the "not enough space" wiki page says installing apps from apt-get bypasses these. | 02:14 |
| sivang | will it reject a package in install time if it is "bad" ? | 02:15 |
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| nox- | sivang, xz homepage at the bottom says there are python bindings... | 02:16 |
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| sivang | nox-: nice, maybe I can use it to revive hubackup. Dar's autogenerated swig bindings never really worked. | 02:18 |
| sivang | nox-: one of the issues that made us sease development so far. | 02:19 |
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| * sivang wonders why the flashing docs talks both about eMMC and rootfs flashing. | 02:20 | |
| nox- | i dont remember the details of dar, but maybe it would have to be teached about xz itself since it also does indexing etc... | 02:20 |
| sivang | is it not enough to just flash rootfs? | 02:20 |
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| sivang | nox-: I was actually thinking of using the libzma bindings for a non dar usage. | 02:21 |
| sivang | nox-: like using it solely to achive the backups | 02:21 |
| nox- | ooh | 02:21 |
| sivang | nox-: dar is wonderful, but there's already kdar, and using it as we do now through spawning and subprocess caters mostly for backup, restore process cannot really happen through this approach | 02:22 |
| sivang | nox-: the restore process is much more complicated and requires much more user intervention, hence better to use something inprocess instead. | 02:22 |
| nox- | hm maybe it was also kdar that i tried that segfaulted... | 02:22 |
| sivang | nox-: hehe, I knew there was some problem with this in some libdar version | 02:23 |
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| sivang | nox-: it got manifested into hubackup ofcourse, made the pygtk gui hang | 02:23 |
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| nox- | but now kdar `should work'? | 02:23 |
| sivang | nox-: I guess there was some issue in some versino of the lib, and it is now fixed. | 02:24 |
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| nox- | ok | 02:24 |
| nox- | whats the difference between kdar and your one? | 02:24 |
| sivang | nox-: I think it works , yes, I don't know people who ise it personally, but I'm sure it is popular in KDE | 02:24 |
| sivang | nox-: so mine is dead simple, or at least tries to be (I succeded in doing that for the backup process actually, and people use it to backup even though GUI restore is not working) | 02:25 |
| sivang | nox-: kdar, is you know, bells and whistles as known in KDE :-) | 02:25 |
| sivang | nox-: lots of features, things to decide upon | 02:25 |
| nox- | ah | 02:25 |
| nox- | (sorry for being ot btw) | 02:25 |
| sivang | ah right, we are :) | 02:26 |
| sivang | oops | 02:26 |
| sivang | nox-: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/hubackup-backup-application-for-ubuntu-home-users.html | 02:26 |
| sivang | nox-: the main dialog is , stupidily simple? :) | 02:26 |
| sivang | I should really revive this tool, shame to see it bit rot. | 02:26 |
| sivang | maybe a Qt based (-KDE?) tool to remain dead simple and use dar's C++ lib | 02:27 |
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| sivang | as a complement to kdar. | 02:27 |
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| sivang | nox-: I went so far to automatically calculate the slices size for the user based on the target media he is trying to use | 02:28 |
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| sivang | nox-: kdar is not too complicated, but I for one refrained from asking the user if he wants to do a "differentia" backup, assuming a new user to ubuntu or os, would not really know what it measn and could be more assisted by simple language and no bac | 02:29 |
| sivang | nox-: not backup lingo | 02:29 |
| sivang | nox-: as an example.. | 02:29 |
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| sivang | anyway, I need to get this upgrade done :) | 02:31 |
| nox- | :) | 02:32 |
| * sivang wonders what's that with the ioquake3 package that is so dangerous | 02:32 | |
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| sivang | nox-: but yeah, I should really stretch to revive it | 02:33 |
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| sivang | hildon backup in progress | 02:35 |
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| sivang | is modest open source? | 02:41 |
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| sivang | oh it is on garage | 02:43 |
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| sivang | bye a;; | 03:01 |
| sivang | all | 03:01 |
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| pupnik | lcuk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocE3MjF77Wk 5-DOF untethered/wireless robot steering with electromagnetic fields - in-eye robot surgery - | 03:07 |
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| wmarone | hey, can anyone with thread-scrubbing capabilities show ZShakespeare the door? | 03:10 |
| lcuk | ooooh pupnik | 03:11 |
| lcuk | wmarone, hmm where? | 03:11 |
| lcuk | and theres a report this post if its on talk.maemo.org | 03:12 |
| wmarone | oh, sjgadsby is on it | 03:12 |
| wmarone | ZShakespeare decided to go out in a blazed of immaturity and post ... crap all over | 03:12 |
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| vnepo | hello any new updates for n900? | 04:08 |
| johnx | vnepo, do you follow the planet.maemo.org RSS feed? | 04:09 |
| vnepo | nope let me follow that | 04:11 |
| johnx | good way to keep up to date ;) | 04:11 |
| vnepo | lol thanks!! | 04:12 |
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| vnepo | ok i added the feed | 04:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have apmefo installed. | 04:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | This - sort-of is useful for making categories. | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | however - is rthere any alternative - other than catorise - which has issues apparantly with battery saving. | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm specifically wondering how I can sort apps that are not in folders with apmefo | 04:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ?? | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm quite ok with ApMeFo. And the battery hog issue is common to catorise and ApMeFo, cause it's a hildon desktop bug | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | that shows only on windows that are supposed to scroll but actually too 'short' to scroll any direction. | 05:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the balistic scrolling - or what ever it's called - keeps running cyrcles bouncing up and down the window 0.0000points | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorting kinda interferes with ApMeFo, but when I tested it once, I only had to start the ApMeFo config gui and 'save', to fix the mess. Maybe in subfolders it's different, one way or the other | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | submenus even | 05:15 |
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| lcuk | lol DocScrutinizer | 05:17 |
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| lcuk | (kinetic infinite bounce) | 05:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol on what? | 05:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ah - not hit that bug | 05:18 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, many dynamic systems can get into that situation | 05:18 |
| * lcuk has one now | 05:18 | |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - I can 'fix' it - with either folders or sorting, but I want both. | 05:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Currently messing with vi. | 05:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | considering how sorting works, I'd guess it can coexist with submenus | 05:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's just the sorting process ruins the subfolder .desktops (my take on it), but ApMeFo doesn't ruin sorting | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh it SHOULD get integrated into HSM | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | HDM* | 05:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or the applauncher - whoever is doing the sorting | 05:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | I can gret sorting and folders - but the folders are 'included' and I can't work out how to get them to the top | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | erm, sorting the folders might be tricky. Look into an arbitrary .desktop, iirc there's a line like "sequence=13" | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ApMeFo, on creating those folder .desktop new, probably will not keep those position info | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | but for sure you can edit with vi or... | 05:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's so much in maemo that's actually implemented but the frontend to config and put to purpose is missing... It's a shame | 05:28 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | profiles, subfolders, *#... to name just a few | 05:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, off for relaxing | 05:30 |
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| TermanaN900 | yello | 08:00 |
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| ZogG | Khertan_Home, didn't know you are french =) | 09:28 |
| RST38h | Windows Live - gone | 09:32 |
| RST38h | WinAmp Detector - gone | 09:32 |
| RST38h | "Free" Quickbooks - gone | 09:32 |
| ZogG | RST38h, we don't talk russian man | 09:32 |
| * RST38h wonders if he should get rid of the MS Office | 09:33 | |
| RST38h | ZogG, do you talk russian woman then? | 09:33 |
| bef0rd | new notebook? | 09:34 |
| RST38h | yea | 09:34 |
| ZogG | RST38h install haiku on it | 09:34 |
| ZogG | or plan9 | 09:34 |
| * RST38h has got an extra "drive" labelled "Drive Q: Microsoft Office Click-to-Run 2010" | 09:35 | |
| bef0rd | yea Microsoft things | 09:35 |
| RST38h | As fully expected, clicking it returns "Access denied" | 09:35 |
| bef0rd | never understood what's that for | 09:36 |
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| RST38h | Doesn't matter, it will be gone in a moment... | 09:36 |
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| bef0rd | RST38h, btw, specs? :P | 09:38 |
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| RST38h | bef0rd: Toshiba R700 S1331 | 09:42 |
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| bef0rd | great battery life, and seems to be pretty light | 09:47 |
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| Pillum | hey | 09:53 |
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| Pillum | is there a way to dualboot stock kernel and power? | 09:54 |
| jacekowski | nope | 09:54 |
| jacekowski | why would you do such thing anyways | 09:55 |
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| Pillum | psjailbreak ;) | 09:55 |
| jacekowski | you can do that on power kernel | 09:56 |
| bef0rd | I think there are compiled .ko's for stock and power | 09:56 |
| jacekowski | or you can kexec | 09:56 |
| jacekowski | well, you can build your own modules | 09:57 |
| Pillum | yeah, but the newest psfreedom is stock kernel only | 09:57 |
| jacekowski | or try to forceload them | 09:57 |
| jacekowski | try insmod module.ko -f | 09:57 |
| jacekowski | it may load | 09:57 |
| jacekowski | or panic | 09:57 |
| jacekowski | one of two | 09:57 |
| Pillum | hehe | 09:57 |
| jacekowski | wel, it may not load at all | 09:57 |
| jacekowski | so one of 3 | 09:57 |
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| *** kerio92 is now known as kerio | 11:15 | |
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| ShadowJK | ~deadbattery | 11:25 |
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| crashanddie | what do you do when even shazam doesn't recognise a song? | 11:58 |
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| crashanddie | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0_uEQp2Vg8 | 12:00 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, so vinyl has come full circle it seems | 12:05 |
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| lcuk | did you see the slashdot thing last night | 12:05 |
| crashanddie | saw it this morning | 12:05 |
| kerio | so... now you can get the poor quality of the vinyl *and* the poor quality of digital audio? | 12:06 |
| kerio | nice | 12:06 |
| lcuk | heh kerio | 12:07 |
| lcuk | http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/10/09/24/2322232/CD-Sales-Continue-To-Plummet-Vinyl-Records-Soar | 12:07 |
| crashanddie | kerio: nope, it's analog | 12:07 |
| lcuk | for those that didnt | 12:07 |
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| kerio | crashanddie: neat | 12:07 |
| kerio | how are they going to stop the deterioration of the vinyl though? | 12:07 |
| lcuk | and kerio, turn the laser power up and you get to play the record only once | 12:07 |
| lcuk | kerio, laser tracking instead of physical pulling | 12:07 |
| kerio | lcuk: how's that not affecting the vinyl | 12:08 |
| lcuk | errr dragging a needle | 12:08 |
| crashanddie | kerio: light produces a lot less friction than? | 12:08 |
| kerio | a lot less | 12:08 |
| crashanddie | I never thought "damn, light is damned heavy today" | 12:08 |
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| kerio | ask me how many times i can play PCM audio without changing it | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | how many times can you play PCM audio without changing it? | 12:09 |
| kerio | infinite | 12:09 |
| crashanddie | and? | 12:09 |
| kerio | and that's impossible with vinyl | 12:09 |
| kerio | : | 12:09 |
| kerio | *:) | 12:09 |
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| crashanddie | you do realise that there are still plenty of people who already have a massive vinyl collection? | 12:09 |
| lcuk | take a photo of the record | 12:10 |
| kerio | do they *listen* to it? | 12:10 |
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| lcuk | put it back in its sleeve | 12:10 |
| kerio | lcuk: photons hit the surface | 12:10 |
| kerio | it's not the same anymore | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | meh | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | I don't give a shit about the supposed "warmth" that vinyls have | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | I do care about compression | 12:11 |
| kerio | the warmth they have is a distortion of the low frequencies | 12:11 |
| kerio | :) | 12:11 |
| kerio | so don't buy crappy cds | 12:11 |
| kerio | http://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1798856&cid=33693998 <- lol | 12:11 |
| crashanddie | And even though some vinyls have a bit of compression, it's usually less than what you get on all CDs produced today | 12:11 |
| kerio | yeah :( | 12:11 |
| crashanddie | kerio: find the metallica guitar hero comment in there | 12:11 |
| kerio | i know about that | 12:12 |
| crashanddie | the guitar hero version of a song is of better quality than the CD version :( | 12:12 |
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| kerio | (well, you *can't* compress the sound so much on a vinyl - that's why it's not done) | 12:12 |
| crashanddie | sure you can | 12:12 |
| kerio | nah, you'll get pops | 12:12 |
| kerio | the needle will do tiny jumps | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | well, that's just poor compression :P | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | and depends of the needle, too | 12:13 |
| crashanddie | if I understand it correctly, loudness sounds better on crappy soundsystems | 12:13 |
| kerio | crashanddie: s/better/less crappy/ | 12:14 |
| crashanddie | so that billy bob and co can listen to a CD of justin bieber and think "Woah, this sounds really good" | 12:14 |
| kerio | well, i'd say the problem is in billy bob's head, not in the cd | 12:14 |
| kerio | replaygain would fix that, but meh | 12:15 |
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| crashanddie | no, the problem is that one-size-fits-all is what the majors think is best for us | 12:15 |
| kerio | the majors can suck it | 12:15 |
| kerio | and vinyl is not best for anyone | 12:15 |
| kerio | except old people who have nostalgia of the plastic disc | 12:16 |
| kerio | true audiophiles buy SACD | 12:16 |
| crashanddie | audiophiles are ignorant twats | 12:16 |
| crashanddie | not much better than linux wankers who get a tiny hardon when they thing their system is 1% better | 12:16 |
| crashanddie | "OMFG, GOLDEN CABLES, weeeeeeeeee" | 12:16 |
| kerio | lol | 12:16 |
| crashanddie | for the same reason that you can buy dvd, bluray, and even still vhs a few years ago, because different people had different demands, why is it not possible to get a normally engineered soundtrack, and then the loudness wars casualty one on sale everywhere | 12:17 |
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| crashanddie | the people who give a fuck will give a fuck, and go the extra length to buy the not crappy one | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | the same reason I hate the fact that I can't buy a DVD in France and watch it in English without having french subtitles distracting me | 12:18 |
| kerio | huh? you surely can? | 12:18 |
| crashanddie | depends, it's getting better these days, and haven't seen it on bluray yet | 12:18 |
| kerio | disable subtitles, from the Video menu | 12:19 |
| crashanddie | but most movies are hard-coded to only support english channel with the french subtitles | 12:19 |
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| kerio | on the other hand, vlc is hard-coded to do what i tell him to do | 12:19 |
| crashanddie | (I'm talking about playback on PS3 or standalone DVD player) | 12:19 |
| crashanddie | Yes, sure, I could slam it in the macbookpro, hook it up to the telly, and play it from there | 12:20 |
| crashanddie | but after a week of work? I can't be bothered, really | 12:20 |
| kerio | make a HTPC | 12:20 |
| crashanddie | no | 12:20 |
| crashanddie | why would I have to invest more instead of the companies getting it right? | 12:21 |
| kerio | because the companies don't get it right? | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | And they've listened -- bluray doesn't do that anymore. | 12:21 |
| kerio | duh | 12:21 |
| kerio | also i think pretty much every dvd player has a "subtitles" button that lets you choose | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | yes, and when you hit it, it says "Operation unavailable" | 12:21 |
| kerio | then you have the wrong dvd player | 12:22 |
| lcuk | no, this is France | 12:22 |
| crashanddie | kerio: ever had the Disney adverts that take up 20 minutes before the movie begins? | 12:22 |
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| crashanddie | And how they sometime don't allow you to fast forward? | 12:22 |
| kerio | crashanddie: i don't buy dvds | 12:22 |
| crashanddie | well then fuck off | 12:22 |
| kerio | for precisely that reason | 12:22 |
| crashanddie | don't argue in a discussion you know nothing about, ffs. | 12:23 |
| kerio | if i borrow one from a friend, i just watch it on my computer | 12:23 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, you have seen Taxi 1,2,3,4 i gather? | 12:23 |
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| crashanddie | nope | 12:23 |
| crashanddie | Just 1, maybe 2 | 12:23 |
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| crashanddie | not the rest | 12:23 |
| crashanddie | I'm not big on french movies | 12:24 |
| lcuk | first French movies I had tried and liked | 12:24 |
| lcuk | any others in similar genre - amusing and fast | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | Dunno if they're translated in English, but there's one seriously stupid and very funny: Asterix and Obelix: Mission Cleopatra | 12:25 |
| lcuk | well taxi was subtitled only | 12:25 |
| * lcuk will watch out for asterix | 12:25 | |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: Dobermann, The Nest, District 13, and the sequel apparently is good (never seen it): District 13 Ultimatum | 12:27 |
| lcuk | cool, think I have seen District 13 | 12:30 |
| lcuk | or at least some parts of it - its got a heavy freerunning section afaik | 12:30 |
| crashanddie | also 36 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8HSXswW5MA ) and slightly darker: A Prophet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiZSIQwNk3k) | 12:31 |
| crashanddie | it's only about freerunning, lol | 12:31 |
| lcuk | heh | 12:31 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, i just watched asterix trailer | 12:44 |
| lcuk | i was half expecting animated version | 12:44 |
| lcuk | so pleasantly surprised to see its a real movie :D | 12:44 |
| crashanddie | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kfkBaMg4h8 | 12:46 |
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| flexxxv | hy, what is the easiest way to get the source code of the modules I need for cd drive support in maemo? | 13:32 |
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| kerio | huh... kernel.org? | 13:33 |
| kerio | also, why | 13:33 |
| kerio | the n900 has no cd drive | 13:33 |
| pexi | pics if u have modded! | 13:33 |
| Noma | usb host and usb cd drive?:) | 13:34 |
| satmd | I thought n900 did not have host mode | 13:34 |
| pexi | imagine amiga cd32 emulator and pad with n900 | 13:34 |
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| sivang | morning all | 13:38 |
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| * sivang continues with the backup/ reflash saga | 13:39 | |
| sivang | any good tips and warnings before? | 13:39 |
| flexxxv | I already connected a cd drive successfully :D | 13:40 |
| flexxxv | just cant use it because of the missing modules | 13:40 |
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| flexxxv | so am I right that if I would compile the modles I could use it right? no need to recompile the patched kernel? | 13:41 |
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| flexxxv | I never compiled modules taht are normally included in the vanilla kernel | 13:42 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: ping | 13:42 |
| sivang | flexxxv: if you can use an inserted module, then just build it with your kernel headers and try and insmod or modprobe it and it should work, yes | 13:42 |
| sivang | flexxxv: yeah, but in most of the times, this will just create the device node- you will still have to mount it manually | 13:43 |
| flexxxv | that would be no problem :D | 13:43 |
| sivang | flexxxv: so mount /dev/cdXX /media/cdrom or somesuch | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | satmd: host mode is coming along just fine | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | satmd: I'd say another couple weeks and we'll be able to hook up an external hard drive no problem | 13:43 |
| flexxxv | i know; but how can I can I only build the cd modules? | 13:43 |
| flexxxv | Think you can already use an ext HD :D | 13:44 |
| crashanddie | well, there are bugs that will appear pretty soon | 13:44 |
| satmd | yay :D | 13:44 |
| crashanddie | which is why I'd say another 2 weeks will be necessary to have something working reliably | 13:44 |
| * sivang wonders if the work being done through mameo-devel will be reused in MeeGO. | 13:44 | |
| crashanddie | what work? | 13:45 |
| flexxxv | the ext HD | 13:45 |
| flexxxv | (think so) | 13:45 |
| flexxxv | I mean the modules I need are included in the vanilla kernel. but i dont need the hole vanilla kernel just the modules so how to do this? | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | did not compute. | 13:45 |
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| flexxxv | sry, HD isn't working for me :( | 13:47 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: I'll be studying for the theoretical exam too in the next few days | 13:47 |
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| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, lost your license? | 13:49 |
| flexxxv | Ok hd is working just was using wrong cable :-O | 13:50 |
| flexxxv | but no no ntfs modules :( | 13:50 |
| kerio | i'm not sure someone ported fuse | 13:50 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: nope, full motorcycle licence | 13:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: moinmoin. Factoid: write speed of MyDocs over ass rage: 11MB/s (average for 13.2GB of data written) | 13:50 |
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| MohammadAG51 | :D | 13:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | logs, NAO | 13:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 13:50 |
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| MohammadAG51 | flexxxv, download them, the stock kernels should load fine, if not ping me in 10-20 mins | 13:51 |
| flexxxv | MohammedAG51: need to leave now, will be back in 30 min | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm, k | 13:52 |
| * MohammadAG51 adds a note | 13:52 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: write speed of mydocs with rsync? :) | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: which part of "MyDocs over ass rage" was unclear? | 13:53 |
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| kerio | no, i mean, from the n900 itself | 13:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer throws a M* and STO* in kerio's general direction | 13:54 | |
| kerio | i keep not getting it | 13:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | mass storage | 13:54 |
| kerio | yeah | 13:54 |
| kerio | i got that much | 13:54 |
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| tobis87 | Hi, does someone know how ham accesses the nokia repositories https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ and https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0 ? I'm looking for the correct adress to Contents-armel.gz. | 13:56 |
| * MohammadAG51 hints at /etc/apt/ | 13:56 | |
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| RST38h | A change in Symbian's naming scheme was proposed. This would see a move to major and minor release numbers; this would mean Symbian^4.0, Symbian^4.2, Symbian^4.3, Symbian^5.0 (and so on), rather than Symbian^4, Symbian^5, Symbian^6 (and so on). | 13:59 |
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| * RST38h can't quite restrain himself from laughing satanically | 13:59 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer thinks there's some authentication involved, as for instance the cherry dissect says "download via wget to your N900, it doesn't work to directly dl to desktop PC" (OWTTE) | 13:59 | |
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| tobis87 | yes, but this is strange: dists is ./ and there is no section in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list, https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/dists/./Contents-armel.gz does not work. | 14:01 |
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| RST38h | The council discussed the deprecation of AVKON (in Symbian^4) onwards. It will become a platform API from Symbian^4 onwards. CONE and UIKON will remain because of dependencies. | 14:02 |
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| RST38h | CONE and UIKON will remain, hehe | 14:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | after learning about sybian, I'm not quite sure if I want to know what's a CONE or a UIKON :-P | 14:04 |
| RST38h | right. | 14:05 |
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| asj_ | DocScrutinizer: sybian != symbian ;) btw... | 14:10 |
| pexi | :D | 14:11 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: hehe, you would be amazed what video's wikipedia has in store for this definition | 14:11 |
| * sivang thought wikipedia was PG13 | 14:11 | |
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| kerio | you'd be surprised | 14:11 |
| sivang | what are those CONE and UIKON? | 14:13 |
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| asj_ | I'm more people find a sybian more enjoyable than ever thought symbian was enjoyable...and symbian has I'm sure sold 1x10^6 more devices | 14:14 |
| pexi | :) | 14:14 |
| sivang | hehe | 14:15 |
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| asj_ | sivang: google says UIKON is some of the graphics foundation, and I hope to neve rlearn about CONE | 14:15 |
| asj_ | RST38h: that's lame, they should change the naming to something more like Symbian^(4/1), Symbian^(4/2), etc ;) | 14:18 |
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| sivang | asj_: hehe | 14:20 |
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| sivang | hmm | 14:31 |
| sivang | plugging my N900 to Ubuntu does not make the automounting go poof like before | 14:31 |
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| sivang | still the fs's seem to have been properly unmounted from the device itself | 14:33 |
| sivang | what gives? | 14:33 |
| * sivang beats his ubuntu laptop | 14:33 | |
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| sivang | hmm, so I managed to mount something of size 29G which is a vfat, | 14:37 |
| sivang | where is MyDocs and everything else? | 14:37 |
| * sivang guesses there no way but to rsycn stuff to the mSD and copy it from there to external device | 14:37 | |
| alterego | I noticed that data+web isn't in the MeeGo 1.1 released .. | 14:38 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: ^ (trying to follow your rsync advice for /, /home, /home/user/MyDocs ) | 14:38 |
| alterego | So much for people thinking that will save the N900 .. | 14:38 |
| sivang | alterego: data+web ? | 14:39 |
| pexi | wrt is in 1.2 if u mean that | 14:39 |
| alterego | cellmo data + network connectivity | 14:39 |
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| TermanaDesire | alterego - are you sure? I'm pretty sure phone functionality got accepted yesterday | 14:49 |
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| RST38h | cooooool | 14:50 |
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| RST38h | now, BME, a few more touches, and... | 14:50 |
| TermanaDesire | RST38h - bme is available in closed images already | 14:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | blaaaaaarrrghh | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you're aware bme even *blocks* implementation of proper open interfaces, like e.g. a bq24150 driver allowing to access the chip via sysfs nodes? | 14:53 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=10187&postcount=183 | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | and ShadowJK is using his N900 since 7 weeks now, without ever starting bme. He's using an augmented version of my charging script | 14:55 |
| alterego | TermanaDesire: Phone functionality isn't network data connectivity though is it. | 14:56 |
| alterego | You can make calls but not connect to hte internet. | 14:57 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: coooooooooooooooool =) | 14:57 |
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| RST38h | well I hope data connectivity will come too,in a while | 14:57 |
| alterego | Whether this is a minor problem with there not being any MeeGo support for operators, so you have to configure ofono manually, or whether there's some underlying problem .. | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it's there but just not in UI | 14:58 |
| Psi | hey, can anyone recommend a ffmpeg audio and video codec and the mimetype to go with it for transcoding upnp to n900 in mediatomb? I have it working quite well with just mpeg2video, just wondering if there is anything better | 14:58 |
| flexxxv|afk | MohammadAG51: I downloaded the vanilla kernel linux-2.6.28 . what do I have to do to compile modules like: cdrom.ko isofs.ko etc ? | 15:00 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: And I hope someone if writing a SIM PIN entry dialog? :) | 15:01 |
| alterego | flexxxv: scratchbox | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: hopefully.. not sure if it makes it into 1.1 though | 15:02 |
| flexxxv | alterego: Is installed :D | 15:02 |
| alterego | flexxxv: well, you need to compile the kernel and modules you need. | 15:02 |
| flexxxv | how to do this? :D | 15:03 |
| alterego | Have you ever compiled a kernel before? :) | 15:03 |
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| flexxxv | no :D | 15:03 |
| alterego | Oh, well, I'd suggest learning to do that then :P | 15:03 |
| flexxxv | just some kernel modules.... | 15:03 |
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| MohammadAG_ | flexxxv, funny, I'm compiling them atm | 15:03 |
| alterego | :) | 15:04 |
| flexxxv | MohammadAG_: I have no experience with that could you tell me what you did? | 15:04 |
| alterego | MohammadAG_: had much success with testers then? | 15:04 |
| alterego | I must be doing something wrong :/ | 15:04 |
| alterego | I'll probably have a proper look tomorrow. | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | flexxxv, I'll upload them when I'm done | 15:04 |
| MohammadAG_ | alterego, hmm? | 15:05 |
| MohammadAG_ | did it fail for you? | 15:05 |
| alterego | Yeah, the other day. I've not tested it with my powered externel HDD yet | 15:05 |
| alterego | And I got an infinite reboot. | 15:05 |
| flexxxv | MohammadAG_: thx (but I need to figure it out in any way how to do such stuiff :D ) | 15:05 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG_: I'd appreciate dvb-t drivers ^.^ | 15:06 |
| alterego | Butr I know I'll have to do that myself :D | 15:06 |
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| flexxxv | alterego: we had dvb-h for n8x0 | 15:06 |
| alterego | dvb-t | 15:06 |
| flexxxv | alterego: think dvb t will never wrk | 15:07 |
| * RST38h wonders how alterego is going to receive dvb on his phone | 15:07 | |
| alterego | With my DVB-T usb dongle | 15:07 |
| RST38h | given the lack of harware | 15:07 |
| MohammadAG_ | dvb adapter? | 15:07 |
| RST38h | umgh, ugly | 15:07 |
| alterego | So's your face :P | 15:07 |
| flexxxv | alterego: don't think that the n900 can decode the data stream fast enough | 15:07 |
| alterego | flexxxv: sure, maybe not, I just want a portable archiver | 15:08 |
| alterego | OR a digital radio receiver .. | 15:08 |
| flexxxv | alterego: hmm intresting :D | 15:08 |
| alterego | Besides, I can record, then transcode | 15:08 |
| alterego | Then watch :) | 15:08 |
| flexxxv | very handy | 15:09 |
| flexxxv | btw I have two dvb-t sticks laying around :D :D :D (and a big antenna) | 15:09 |
| alterego | Would be in a car yes | 15:09 |
| alterego | bbiab | 15:09 |
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| mc_teo | hey there | 15:09 |
| RST38h | http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-490 | 15:10 |
| mc_teo | just wondering, how can i add my own pyqt script to the main, regular application menu | 15:10 |
| pexi | are there general 'nice-to-have' application collection site for n900? like iboog g4 era there were some hacks and suggestions for touchpad and "spotlight" | 15:10 |
| flexxxv | MohammadAG_: do you know a good page on internet to learn how to compile such modules? | 15:10 |
| flexxxv | (I mean from the vanilla kernel) | 15:11 |
| mc_teo | google? | 15:11 |
| flexxxv | hmm yeah that was what I did. :D but cant find the right keyworks :( | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | just a general notice on hostmode: the currently published "pre-alpha" is actually a special kernel version made for research purposes *only*. It's not supposed to be used for production, nor will it ever work correctly. It doesn't need some minor fixes to implement hostmode properly, but will get discarded completely and replaced by a entirely different concept | 15:11 |
| mc_teo | hmmm H8H8O3 | 15:12 |
| pexi | the point is to find consencus of good apps/hacks so that u don't have to try everything yourself and do some power consumption measurements and user experience evaluation :) | 15:12 |
| mc_teo | rather, yum H8H8O3 | 15:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | indeed, it contains too many debugging crap | 15:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | which, if you have syslog installed, eats your rootfs | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: basically it contains ONLY debugging crap | 15:12 |
| MohammadAG_ | echo "" > /var/log/syslog to clear | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG_ | I can only agree with you | 15:13 |
| mc_teo | just wondering, how can i add my own pyqt script to the main, regular application menu | 15:13 |
| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer: replaced completely? but we will alway need a patched kernel right? | 15:13 |
| MohammadAG_ | yes | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 15:13 |
| flexxxv | so new concept = new mode for te usb driver for host mode or what? | 15:14 |
| mc_teo | just wondering, how can i add my own pyqt script to the main, regular application menu | 15:14 |
| MohammadAG_ | proper patches | 15:14 |
| MohammadAG_ | mc_teo, you already asked once | 15:14 |
| mc_teo | twice | 15:14 |
| mc_teo | i was ignored in both instances, hence asking a third | 15:15 |
| flexxxv | mc_teo: http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_file_format | 15:15 |
| *** MohammadAG_ is now known as MohammadAG | 15:15 | |
| mc_teo | yes, i have made my own one of those | 15:15 |
| mc_teo | and copied it to the correct di | 15:15 |
| mc_teo | dir* | 15:15 |
| MohammadAG | oh, a shortcut | 15:15 |
| mc_teo | and killed the desktop to restart it | 15:15 |
| MohammadAG | I thought you're working on something ala catorize | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG | it scans the dir, you don't need to kill it | 15:16 |
| mc_teo | but it does not appear | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG | pastebin the file | 15:16 |
| flexxxv | mc_teo which directory? | 15:16 |
| mc_teo | /usr/share/applications/hildon | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG | pastebin the file | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv: new concept = throwing out all the handles in sysfs that are used now to *force* kernel manually thru a fixed sequence of USB OTG states, and replace that by a smarter properly implemented in-kernel mechanism that just does "The Right Thing", when doing a "echo host >./mode" | 15:18 |
| mc_teo | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/267061 | 15:18 |
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| mc_teo | mostly based on nmaps and xterms | 15:18 |
| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer: sounds good :D | 15:19 |
| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer: what kind of logs are you intrested in most? | 15:19 |
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| mc_teo | btw, did no one get my joke about vanilla? | 15:19 |
| mc_teo | its chemical formula is H8H8O3 | 15:19 |
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| MohammadAG | take out the X- lines | 15:20 |
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| MohammadAG | flexxxv, syslogs, and patches if you're a dev | 15:20 |
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| mc_teo | sorry | 15:20 |
| MohammadAG | take out the X- lines mc_teo | 15:21 |
| MohammadAG | and remove the " from Exec= | 15:21 |
| mc_teo | im on the border of the ap, so i got disconnected | 15:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv: we can use a single fully blown log of successful hostmode session, for every distinct class of usecase (like storage attached, hub attached, low-speed device attached [won't ever work now]) | 15:22 |
| * MohammadAG found better success with a hub | 15:22 | |
| MohammadAG | what didn't work before works now | 15:22 |
| MohammadAG | so I'm using a hub on my N900, connected to a flash, a mouse 2.4GHz receiver, and a keyboard | 15:22 |
| MohammadAG | kb maps are shit though | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv: alas fullsize log means we'd need more than just the syslog copy | 15:23 |
| flexxxv | yeah thats right a hub makes live so much easier :D how did you change the keyboard mapping??? | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG | I didn't, they're the rx51 crap | 15:23 |
| flexxxv | so not too usefull | 15:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ...as in syslog not all interesting things show up. Due to the kernel not being optimized for logging either | 15:23 |
| flexxxv | DocScrutinizer: tell me exactly what you want and i'll try to do | 15:24 |
| flexxxv | argh need to leave again :( | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv: I had hoped MohammadAG would do this | 15:24 |
| flexxxv | ok | 15:24 |
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| mc_teo | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/267068 | 15:25 |
| mc_teo | still doesnt show | 15:25 |
| flexxxv|afk | just thought that there are different hardware revisions out and so you need some more logs | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | flxfrom a devel POV this release wasn't intended to help in any way. MohammadAG did it "to attract developers" | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv|afk: ^^ | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv|afk: there's definitely very little use in "testers" for now, for hostmode development | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG can provide us (the kernel devels) with all the logs we need. And there's nothing yet to actually 'test' on a larger user basis | 15:29 |
| MohammadAG | Umm, didn't I already? | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless it's nice to learn there's not just MohammadAG's N900 in this world than actually *can* do hostmode, so it's a general proof of concept, yielding evidence hostmode *can* be done without any hardware mods, without external power, without special adapters | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sure, mostly | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course further logs for e.g the hub case are welcome | 15:31 |
| kerio | can the hardware give power through usb? | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | also please refer to my suggestion I posted to you yesterday in #mhd, about augmenting the echo cals in hostmode.py | 15:32 |
| MohammadAG | yes yes, will do mate | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: 200mA | 15:32 |
| MohammadAG | just having problems with some shit | 15:32 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: that sucks... :( | 15:32 |
| MohammadAG | it's enough for a flash, a mouse and a kb | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio: you suck | 15:33 |
| MohammadAG | apparently | 15:33 |
| * MohammadAG is tempted to plug a CD drive | 15:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: won't work | 15:33 |
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| MohammadAG | and a CD drive powered by another 5V plug (Y cable) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | drives quite regularly draw even more than the allowed 500mA max, for spinning up | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | this *would* work, but will ruin hostmode setup, due to VBUS applied prematurely | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | of *this debug botch kernel* | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a decent kernel it of course would work flawlessly | 15:35 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 15:35 |
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| MohammadAG | I just don't get why I need to start bme, connect the plug then stop bme | 15:35 |
| MohammadAG | when starting bme, it pumps out some power out of the USB port | 15:36 |
| MohammadAG | enough to light up my flash drive | 15:36 |
| MohammadAG | then less than 1s later, it disables that | 15:36 |
| mc_teo | still no look | 15:37 |
| mc_teo | luck* | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I bet that's related to 2 things: a) bme accessing charger detection, thus activating ULPI interface, and b) VBUS voltage is buffered in some capacitors, so killall vboost.sh makes VBUS decay at random rate, and eventually an IRQ for either VBUS_VALID or SESSION_VALID kicks in | 15:37 |
| mc_teo | maybe i need more that just the .desktop file? | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | both IRQ are generated by 1707 via ULPI, and happen at certain voltage levels of VBUS | 15:38 |
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| alterego | damn 3G base station has died, so I only have 2G :( | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole hostmode establishing in current debug version, as done by hostmode.py, is highly at random and depending on quite a number of physical and timing properties of the particular device | 15:40 |
| alterego | Good innit | 15:41 |
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| mc_teo | i this i saw this phononomen in hp:mor | 15:41 |
| mc_teo | its called the bystander phononomen | 15:42 |
| mc_teo | where everyone passes on the responsibility of doing something to another of the people | 15:42 |
| mc_teo | making it less of their responsibilty | 15:43 |
| mc_teo | and there if you use direct names, or target a single person, they become aware of it being their responsibility | 15:44 |
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| mc_teo | so MohammadAG, i choose you! | 15:44 |
| mc_teo | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/267068 | 15:44 |
| mc_teo | still doesnt work | 15:44 |
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| MohammadAG | dpkg-buildpackage: source package is kernel <-- where is this from? | 15:45 |
| MohammadAG | my only guess mc_teo would be retarded line breaks, as in windows's notepad | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | mc_teo: (to flasify your phononomen :-D ) copy some .desktop that does almost similar thing as you like, then edit step by step to adapt | 15:45 |
| mc_teo | well i used the notepad in maemo | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | what notepad in maemo | 15:46 |
| mc_teo | so unless thats as retarded as the one in maemo | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | the Notes app saves in .html | 15:46 |
| MohammadAG | with html formatting | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | muhahahaha | 15:47 |
| mc_teo | pyqtk editor is really slow to open, so i used that | 15:47 |
| MohammadAG | nano ftw | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | or mc for the clueless | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | (like me :-P) | 15:47 |
| mc_teo | im normally a emacs person myself | 15:47 |
| mc_teo | but i have been using vim lately, since its on this server i tend to ssh into alot | 15:47 |
| GuySoft_nokia | hi all, does anyone know how to get opera browser to support unicode fonts? | 15:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mc_teo: anyway, .desktop files are really picky about syntax, trailing spaces, sequence of lines, etc | 15:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so my suggestion: copy an existing working .desktop to another filename, and edit step by step, beginning with label of icon as shown on hildon app launcher menu | 15:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (label of icon) i.e.: NAME=<your-new-name> | 15:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cp /usr/share/applications/hildon/osso-xterm.desktop /usr/share/applications/hildon/my-own-app.desktop; sed -i "s/Name=X Terminal/Name=That's xterm too/" /usr/share/applications/hildon/my-own-app.desktop | 15:55 |
| mc_teo | i am familiar with that yes | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc you should see two identical xterm icons then, one named X Terminal, and one named That's xterm too | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then go on and edit /usr/share/applications/hildon/my-own-app.desktop to meet your needs | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | step by step | 15:56 |
| jenkowski | df | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | each time you save your edits, hildon desktop will notice that and rescann the whole set of icons to display. No need to reboot | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | if your new icon vanishes, you did something 'bad' :-D | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | revert to former version, and do better :-) | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | HTH | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | (it did for me, as I ran into similar problems) | 16:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, maybe even the tick ' in that's will break it, so I can't recommend to use exactly that name :-P | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but luckily it also breaks the sed cmdline I suggested above, so you won't have introduced it accidentally by c&p this cmdline :-D | 16:06 |
| jpinx-eeepc | ok - how do I activate gprs in the n900. I put the simcard in and it shows up in the list of internet connections, and I select it - then what? It doesn't give a connection with just that... | 16:09 |
| pexi | create new connection | 16:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | and yes - the sim card is specifically for gprs and has credit ;) | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: settings -> internet connections -> * -> *-> edit GPRS connectio settings, set APN details to the ones needed for your provider | 16:11 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Ah-ha | 16:11 |
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| pexi | btw i got 351e bill (2 weeks 3g usage) from the operater because they didn't change the 3g contract in time :) | 16:12 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Hm - nothing to edit in there part from th4 name | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | err wut? | 16:12 |
| pexi | pretty expensive to use w/o proper contract | 16:12 |
| pexi | ofc they did fix that later | 16:13 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: "Connection setup: Name and type " but only Name has an editable box | 16:13 |
| jpinx-eeepc | wait | 16:13 |
| jpinx-eeepc | therre's more....... | 16:14 |
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| flexxxv|afk | DocScrutinizer: thx for clarifing this. I think I'm sure I don't have enough knowledge for helping with developing. So I just will continue to play with what we have right now :D | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the unlucky ones - in detail, while confirming on own device: settings -> internet connections -> [connections] -><select the name of your gprs conn, the one with round icon> -> [edit] -> [next] -> > edit name of Access Point, username, password | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, that's been really difficult to figure | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 16:16 |
| flexxxv|afk | any changelog for the files here: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/hostmode/Aug%2028%202010/ ? | 16:18 |
| * DocScrutinizer lolz | 16:18 | |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: there is no username/password for gprs needed - just the simcard, and the access "point" is the mobile signal | 16:18 |
| MohammadAG | flexxxv|afk, ignore them | 16:18 |
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| * MohammadAG takes down files | 16:19 | |
| SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: It may need the APN and password. | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | It varies by provider | 16:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Some require it, others do not | 16:19 |
| sivang | re all | 16:19 |
| flexxxv|afk | MohammadAG: too late ;) | 16:19 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | there is nowhere to enter an APN . even if I had one.... | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | flexxxv|afk, they may or may not work, failed build really | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | nothing secret or anything, we have a separate place for that | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flexxxv|afk: iirc those were with some patch from mainstream I pushed into hostmode debug kernel (via mohammad :-D) | 16:20 |
| sivang | one last question before I embark on the reflashing guys, Stskeeps noted something about recreating the ubifs for reflashing/recovering the device, should I be worried about it ? | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/fapn/ | 16:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, we didn't test them though, at least with the new method | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | they may or may not work better | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 16:21 |
| jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: ? | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody but you *can* test them | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | why's that :) | 16:21 |
| sivang | also, unrelated, debian packaging is being taken care of by the sdk? no more need to know the debian policy and how to create packages from scratch? | 16:21 |
| *** mrmoku|away is now known as mrmoku | 16:22 | |
| * sivang apologizes for so many early development question which he only now raises | 16:22 | |
| * MohammadAG does packages from scratch | 16:22 | |
| sivang | MohammadAG: good :) | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | as nobody else had success with the 'old' kernel, in whole hostmode taskforce team | 16:22 |
| flexxxv|afk | i wont test them, i also need to use the phone as a phone :D | 16:22 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: what are you using for creating the skelaton ? | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | jpinx-eeepc: see above package to edit APNs | 16:22 |
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| sivang | also, I asked this before, what are the quality guidelines h-a-m enforces on installed packages? will it reject packages not conforming to them on the fly? | 16:23 |
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| sivang | (the article about the "not enough space for upgrade" says installing apps not through it overrides its rules) | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I'd expect that patch from upstream fix some suspend issues in musb-kernel, which usually cause ULPI timeouts | 16:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: no package name showed here | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: so if that's the only change from july to august, it'd be great if you'd test this kernel and confirm it works for you same way the july one does | 16:26 |
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| Nirtal | Hello! I'm trying to flash my n900 but when I'm booting in update/usb mode windows won't find the right drivers | 16:27 |
| toggles | does the twitter conversation plugin work? | 16:28 |
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| sivang | is this channel used for development discussions interchangably? | 16:30 |
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| * sivang wonders if this is like a "policy manual" - http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node16.html#SECTION001610000000000000000 | 16:30 | |
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| sivang | hey pupnik_ | 16:32 |
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| h4waii | toggles - no. | 16:35 |
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| h4waii | toggles - OAuth isn't working. I've built the newest plugin from source and contacted the developer. | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG | noob in hostmode thread, grr! | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I'm trying to but | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | dpkg-gencontrol -pkernel-hostmode-source -ldebian/changelog -isp -Tdebian/kernel-hostmode-source.substvars -Pdebian/kernel-hostmode-source | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | dpkg-gencontrol: error: source package has two conflicting values - kernel-hostmode and kernel | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG | where the f is kernel defined | 16:38 |
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| MohammadAG | meh | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG | gedit wasn't saving shit | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | nano ftw | 16:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that's packaging details where I'm a total noob. Sorry :-) | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | I edited it before, but gedit didn't save it | 16:39 |
| MohammadAG | even after clicking save | 16:39 |
| Nirtal | Can anyone help me flash my n900? | 16:40 |
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| h4waii | No. | 16:40 |
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| * MohammadAG kicks h4waii in the nuts :P | 16:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer | you probably have to do that your own | 16:40 |
| h4waii | I have no nuts! You lose! | 16:40 |
| MohammadAG | fail ^ | 16:40 |
| h4waii | HAHAHA! | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flashing | 16:40 |
| infobot | i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nirtal: if it does't work like described there, you're free to come back and elaborate on your unique problems | 16:41 |
| MohammadAG | N900 died, yay | 16:43 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, is there a way to check battery life w/o bme? | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nirtal: make sure your battery is really really charged prior to starting flashing | 16:43 |
| h4waii | lshal? | 16:43 |
| MohammadAG | I said w/o bme | 16:43 |
| h4waii | Or is that polled from BME? | 16:43 |
| MohammadAG | it's from bme | 16:43 |
| h4waii | HEY EASY BROBOCOP. | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: yep, no bme, no hal | 16:43 |
| Nirtal | I'm going to try that boot without signed drivers thingy | 16:43 |
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| MohammadAG | bq? | 16:44 |
| Nirtal | I'l be back | 16:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: bq always works, as long as no matan's bq27 drivers | 16:44 |
| MohammadAG | huh? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: SpeedEvil's modified simplified script even works with powerkernl | 16:44 |
| MohammadAG | kernel-power has the matan's patches | 16:45 |
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| MohammadAG | -the | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I2Cget will fail if kernel has driver for the chip, occupying the I2C resource | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil's scripts checks if there's a kernel module, and if found it'l use the matan sysfs nodes instead of I2Cget | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | bme is less cute, failing boldly on power kernel for accessing bq27200 | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG | is his script on the interwebz somewhere? | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | on wiki, sw-power-consumption or similar | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management#Powerscript | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously this script doesn't provide NAC | 16:49 |
| * MohammadAG wonders if tealbird saw her success | 16:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I suggest to use ShadowJK's script, plus modprobe -r bq27x00 if needed | 16:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess no, she's obviously no IRC person, and an occasional tmo lurker | 16:50 |
| * MohammadAG can't find his battery | 16:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm about to push out a notice on h-e-n ML | 16:50 |
| MohammadAG | nice, was going to suggest that :) | 16:50 |
| MohammadAG | brb, have to find battery | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: It's in your belly, just like Mr.Data's | 16:51 |
| h4waii | I had a dude drop my N900 battery in his soup, at Nokia World | 16:51 |
| h4waii | He then tried to give it back to me, as if nothing happened. I kept his. | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 16:51 |
| RST38h | Anyone willing to help me with a Qt linkage problem? | 16:51 |
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| sivang | RST38h: if I knew how, why not? :) | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ... | 16:52 |
| sivang | h4waii: heh | 16:52 |
| RST38h | /opt/maemo/tools/arm-2007q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-ld: cannot find -lQtGui | 16:52 |
| RST38h | I am getting this even although I have got /usr/lib/libQtGui* | 16:53 |
| Nirtal | DocScrutinizer windows can't install the drivers | 16:53 |
| sivang | RST38h: the fact you have it does not mean the linkder can find it :) | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nirtal: sorry, haven't touched windows for tha last 10 years | 16:53 |
| sivang | RST38h: so, see if you can ask it where it looks | 16:53 |
| RST38h | It looks in -L/usr/lib | 16:53 |
| MohammadAG | windows is meh | 16:53 |
| RST38h | where it finds libQtCore by the way | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | apt-get install libqt4-dev? | 16:54 |
| RST38h | So, any non-obvious advice? | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | yes, use a proper toolchain | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | scratchbox > MADDE/Nokia SDK | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nirtal: usual suggestion is: either work it out as you decided to use windows, or just use a linux live CD and get support from everybody | 16:54 |
| RST38h | MohammadAG: I am using scratchbox | 16:55 |
| h4waii | Nirtal - Do you have PC/Ovi Suite installed? | 16:55 |
| sivang | RST38h: what happens if you ask pkgconfig about it? | 16:55 |
| Nirtal | h4waii yes | 16:55 |
| MohammadAG | /opt? | 16:55 |
| Nirtal | but not running | 16:55 |
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| toggles | h4waii: thanks mate | 16:55 |
| RST38h | So, why would a scratchbox fail to find QtGui but find QtCore? | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nirtal: that's bad nevertheless | 16:56 |
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| Nirtal | DocScrutinizer what's bad? | 16:56 |
| h4waii | Nirtal - and you're using NSU or flasher? | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I'll :-x as I got nfc of win | 16:56 |
| RST38h | Ah I know now | 16:56 |
| sivang | RST38h: ask pkconfig about ti and see where it reports it, also qmake -l might help | 16:56 |
| RST38h | sivang: I asked for non-obvious advice | 16:57 |
| sivang | RST38h: ah, okay, sorry | 16:57 |
| sivang | scratchbox requires VT btw? | 16:57 |
| sivang | ah,surely not, I managed to run it all over. | 16:57 |
| MohammadAG | weird | 16:58 |
| * MohammadAG installed a +2MB kernel package | 16:58 | |
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| GAN900 | I still can't believe Nokia managed to make the arrow keys unusable in the browser. | 16:59 |
| * MohammadAG will brb | 16:59 | |
| RST38h | Ok, so scratchbox ld fails to load libraries located in /opt/lib, even if -L/opt/lib is explicitely given | 16:59 |
| Nirtal | h4waii I'm trying to use flasher | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Damn thing just does not follow symlinks. | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: lart timeless | 16:59 |
| RST38h | GAN900: you do not need arrow keys in a touch screen device | 16:59 |
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| * RST38h laughs sadistically | 16:59 | |
| h4waii | Nirtal - Update with NSU to get the drivers. | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~attack RST38h | 17:00 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing RST38h | 17:00 | |
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| satmd | oh, infobot is female? | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, she is | 17:01 |
| * satmd wonders why most irc bots are female | 17:01 | |
| RST38h | it is LIKE a female. | 17:01 |
| Nirtal | h4waii will that reset the n900? | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | though: | 17:02 |
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| h4waii | Nirtal - You...are trying to flash your device, no? | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~rape RST38h | 17:02 |
| * infobot takes RST38h behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams | 17:02 | |
| Nirtal | yes | 17:02 |
| h4waii | That's not how you spell Wal-Mart | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't sound really ladylike, hih? XD | 17:02 |
| h4waii | Nirtal - then it will do that, obviously. | 17:02 |
| Nirtal | What I understand, that's the only way to do a full factory reset | 17:03 |
| sivang | hehe | 17:03 |
| h4waii | Drop it down a storm-drain if you want to remove all your data from it. | 17:03 |
| * sivang notes this is probably the more interesting channel in the meego/maemo world. | 17:04 | |
| sivang | sure caters for more laughs | 17:04 |
| MNZ | RST38h, sometimes you need to make libbla.so links pointing to libbla.so.n.m manually | 17:04 |
| h4waii | I'm only here for comedic relief, sivang. | 17:04 |
| GAN900 | Laughing is all you have left when the alternative is crying. *g* | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-P | 17:04 |
| sivang | GAN900: I also hear that alot :) | 17:04 |
| sivang | anyway, back to threashing my device | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Nirtal: NSU seems to occupy the USB, thus preventing flasher from working. Make sure you've read and understood the whole page http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware , then try to find advice how to stop NSU from occupying the USB if you plan to use flasher with windows | 17:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aiui this getting rid of NSU drivers my include steps like uninstalling NSU, rebooting windows, dunno what else | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | may* | 17:12 |
| h4waii | Uh | 17:14 |
| * RST38h got the first picture shown in Qt version of EMULib | 17:14 | |
| h4waii | It doesn't "occupy" USB. | 17:14 |
| * sivang copies backup to laptop | 17:14 | |
| h4waii | It's a driver issue. | 17:14 |
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| RST38h | MNZ: No, it is simpler and weirder than that. Scratchbox canno follow symlinks. Ok, it cannot follow 2 symlinks in a row, at least | 17:15 |
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| h4waii | One driver supports the flashing mode, one doesn't. | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: for sure you're aware scratchbox is a chroot with bindmounts | 17:16 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: SpeedEvil fwiw the local gprs provider here has some method to "register" the sim card and send instructions according to phone type. N900 is not on their list :( | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | what module is needed for CDs? | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | iso9660? | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | [ 1400.908721] scsi 0:0:0:0: CD-ROM TSSTcorp CDDVDW SE-T084M TS01 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | iso9660, cdrom, sr-mod | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 17:18 |
| SpeedEvil | It's been a while though | 17:18 |
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| MohammadAG | argh | 17:19 |
| MohammadAG | fucking gedit | 17:19 |
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| alterego | What's wrong with gedit? | 17:21 |
| jpinx-eeepc | try bluefish ;) | 17:22 |
| h4waii | Fuck that, use vim | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, it didn't save my .config | 17:22 |
| alterego | Awww :) | 17:22 |
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| MohammadAG | and my debian/changelog | 17:23 |
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| MohammadAG | and my other edits | 17:23 |
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| MohammadAG | those who disobey me... | 17:23 |
| MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ killall -9 gedit | 17:23 |
| h4waii | You shoulda sprung for an i7, sir. | 17:24 |
| MohammadAG | what's wrong with i5s? :) | 17:24 |
| h4waii | They're not i7s :D | 17:24 |
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| daleglass | there are longcats on my N900 (found I've got a liblongcat1 package installed) | 17:26 |
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| RST38h | Ohshit, how I hate custom build systems and preprocessing tools... | 17:27 |
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| h4waii | I hate bananas | 17:28 |
| GAN900 | How can you hate bananas? | 17:29 |
| alterego | sweet, so svn handles symlinks fine | 17:30 |
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| h4waii | GAN900 - their consistency. | 17:30 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: Do you know what went wrong with ramzswap yesterday? | 17:30 |
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| daleglass | tobis87: I think I figured it out, I think I set up ramzswap with a backing file on /home, which wasn't mounted yet at that point. I'm not sure what happened at that point though, maybe the script halts on error, or the module freaked out | 17:34 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: Yes, this would be a good reason. But I would consider to use the swap partition directly as the backing store, else you will have an performance overhead by the filesystem. Which size did you test? | 17:37 |
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| daleglass | tobis87: I'll have to try that, yeah. I also found that in the non-backed mode, you choose the swap device's size, not the amount of memory to dedicate. So my current 64MB one compresses to about 50% and saves about 32MB RAM | 17:39 |
| daleglass | tobis87: also on the ramzswap page the author seems to be saying that the backed mode doesn't perform very well, and that currently having it along with a normal swap partition works better. Wonder why. | 17:39 |
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| MohammadAG | umm | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | what are the default kernel parameters for the N900? | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | I'm getting kernel panic on a kernel I made, apparently it doesn't pass root=whatevertheN900user | 17:41 |
| MohammadAG | uses | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | check config_cmdline | 17:42 |
| h4waii | kernel-power doesn't have grsec, does it? | 17:43 |
| daleglass | tobis87: "@KHcha.n.el: Currently, the only reason to use a backing swap (instead of separate physical and ramzswap devices) is to allow incompressible pages to be sent to backing swap, if and when they are encountered. Without backing swap, ramzswap device is forced to stored such pages in uncompressed form." (from http://code.google.com/p/compcache/wiki/CompilingAndUsingNew) | 17:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer smiles on all the cute people, sometimes it's a real pleasure | 17:43 | |
| MohammadAG | ooh fuck | 17:44 |
| MohammadAG | I think my N900's dead | 17:44 |
| MohammadAG | permanently | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-O | 17:44 |
| Adeon | have a proper burial | 17:44 |
| MohammadAG | Kernel Panic: Unable to mount rootfs on unknown block(0,0) | 17:44 |
| * MohammadAG tries stock kernel | 17:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: shock the monkey? | 17:44 |
| MohammadAG | k, nothing to worry about | 17:45 |
| MohammadAG | it's alive | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | grrr | 17:45 |
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| kerio | heh | 17:45 |
| daleglass | tobis87: also, I'm trying to adapt the swap notify patch to the n900 kernel | 17:46 |
| * MohammadAG wonders what these kernel parameters are about snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6 | 17:46 | |
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| tobis87 | Ok, an encrypted swap has even an higher overhead, but i encrypt the swap on every machine i have and mounting tmp as tmpfs. I also don't understand everything, if I use the 768mb swap partion as backingstore for ramzswap with a size of 32mb, but it does not addup to 832mb (768 + 2 * 32). The swap the system knows of is still 768mb, so if the swap drive would be full, not all of it would be used since 64mb of the drive is stored as 32mb in | 17:47 |
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| kerio | there's no way to compress everything, you know | 17:48 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: Yes I know of this, that is why I use backing store to only compress compressable pages, this will not be very easy since nokia has already patched the kernel to handle swapping different. | 17:48 |
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| daleglass | tobis87: well the problem I see is: it sounds like the idea is: if it doesn't compress, send to backing swap. But, if it does compress it's kept in RAM. So if you have say, 32MB for ramzswap, it compresses 50%, all pages are compressable, then all you gain is 32MB extra and your 768MB of backing sit idle | 17:50 |
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| tobis87 | daleglass: this is the patch nokia applied to the swapfile handling http://pastebin.com/81nDpjnD | 17:50 |
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| daleglass | tobis87: I don't think there should be a problem having both at once. The ramzswap patch is very simple and just adds a notification when something that was swapped out isn't needed anymore. | 17:53 |
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| MohammadAG | ah fixed | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | damn nano | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | first gedit, now nano | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | it separated my line into two | 17:55 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: yes, but just assume you would fill the whole swap. you have 32mb in ram, which would be 64mb compressed and the 768mb from the disk. But the system only knows of a 768mb swap (/proc/swaps). | 17:55 |
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| daleglass | tobis87: I don't think you can use an active swap partition for backing? Or that works? | 17:56 |
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| tobis87 | daleglass: would be nice to have this, maybe it could be included in the hostmode kernel, it shouldn't harm without using ramzswap. what do you mean with active swap partition? | 17:57 |
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| MohammadAG | WTF | 17:57 |
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| MohammadAG | Huoston we have a problem: powering off | 17:58 |
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| h4waii | MohammadAG - looks like dsp limits | 18:01 |
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| MohammadAG | wtf are dsp limits | 18:01 |
| h4waii | Okay. | 18:02 |
| h4waii | They look like limitations put on sound output. | 18:02 |
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| MohammadAG | oh | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | the kernel params | 18:02 |
| h4waii | DAC output limit. | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: pointer? or qiote? | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | quote them, even | 18:05 |
| h4waii | Say what? | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, * MohammadAG wonders what these kernel parameters are about snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6 | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | please provide some context, so others can have a look on what you think are imitations put on sound output | 18:05 |
| h4waii | ^^ | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, k | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | hp probably is highpass | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | MNZ: ^^^ seen? | 18:07 |
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| MohammadAG | anyways | 18:08 |
| MohammadAG | full params | 18:08 |
| MohammadAG | CONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6" | 18:08 |
| MNZ | confirm, seen in driver. They set some regs, hold on | 18:08 |
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| h4waii | wtf? no_chk_data_crc | 18:08 |
| MohammadAG | lol fail | 18:09 |
| alterego | h4waii: probably for performance. | 18:09 |
| h4waii | I suppose that can be passed off to ext3 | 18:09 |
| MohammadAG | let's disable md5sums in dpkg, for performance :P | 18:09 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:09 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | Anyone here who can work on the site or server? | 18:12 |
| h4waii | ... | 18:12 |
| h4waii | In reference to what, exactly? | 18:13 |
| Gizmokid2005 | Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 935040 bytes) in /home/tabtalk/public_html/forums/search.php on line 1160 | 18:13 |
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| h4waii | Out of bounds memory allocation. | 18:13 |
| h4waii | the hell are you trying to do? | 18:13 |
| Gizmokid2005 | ...search | 18:13 |
| h4waii | Get off my internet. | 18:14 |
| Gizmokid2005 | the site loads, but it errors when I try to search | 18:14 |
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| h4waii | Link. | 18:14 |
| Gizmokid2005 | go to talk.maemo.org....enter in something in the main search bar...hit go. | 18:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | unless you know of some other hidden search I don't | 18:15 |
| Gizmokid2005 | aaand now it's working | 18:15 |
| h4waii | Works fine. Are you trying to enter in a huge ass string? | 18:15 |
| h4waii | You should be using the Power Search, in any fashion. Regular search is less than useless. | 18:16 |
| MNZ | hp = headphone not high pass, hp_lim and hp_dac_lim set the bounds on maximum gain that can be set through alsa mixer | 18:16 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I wouldn't call "N900 missing phone calls" a huge ass string | 18:16 |
| Gizmokid2005 | Regular search has always been useful to me | 18:16 |
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| h4waii | Well you might be simple. | 18:17 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I am. If it's too much or I don't find what I want then I power search | 18:17 |
| MohammadAG | where are cdroms usually found in dev | 18:18 |
| h4waii | hdc | 18:18 |
| MNZ | or sdb, depends | 18:18 |
| Gizmokid2005 | i'm trying to figure out if there's any way I can make my phone actually work for, you know, a phone. Since I'm on AT&T and only have Edge/2.5, anytime I have just about anything that uses data going in the background phone calls get ignored, and on occasion SMS do too, though they usually are unaffected | 18:19 |
| h4waii | Are you doing any emulation? | 18:20 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I know it's because all the packets are going over the same connection...but there has to be SOME way to make it actually work as a phone. | 18:20 |
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| h4waii | hdc, sdb, scd are the 3 places I'd check | 18:20 |
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| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:/lib/modules/2.6.28-hostmode1# mount /dev/scd0 /mnt | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:/lib/modules/2.6.28-hostmode1# cd /mnt | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:/mnt# ls | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | README.diskdefines install pool | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | cdromupgrade isolinux preseed | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | dists md5sum.txt ubuntu | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | doc pics | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | \o/ | 18:20 |
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| h4waii | Gizmokid2005, what carrier are you on? | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | no reason to highlight me :-P | 18:21 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | h4waii: as I said in my first message... AT&T | 18:21 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, cdroms working, if you're interested :) | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 18:21 |
| Gizmokid2005 | works beautifully on my E71x. I know it has to do with my N900 and the edge limitation | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's actually a reason :-) | 18:21 |
| Gizmokid2005 | outbound is perfectly fine, of course, but inbound is useless at best in most cases | 18:22 |
| h4waii | I've *never* missed a call due to data Tx/Rx | 18:22 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I have, in just the last day alone I've confirmed missed more than 12 calls | 18:22 |
| h4waii | Voice channels are supposed to take priority | 18:22 |
| h4waii | You have something else going on. | 18:22 |
| Gizmokid2005 | hence why I'm asking | 18:22 |
| Gizmokid2005 | like what? | 18:22 |
| jacekowski | h4waii: nope | 18:23 |
| jacekowski | h4waii: that depends on terminal class | 18:23 |
| h4waii | Continue... | 18:23 |
| jacekowski | h4waii: all N series nokia phones for example can do data and voice at the same time | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: that's a problem of your carrier. N900 supports concurrent data & call | 18:24 |
| h4waii | Continue... | 18:24 |
| jacekowski | http://www.newlc.com/en/GPRS-Class-overview.html | 18:24 |
| jacekowski | most phones are class B | 18:25 |
| jacekowski | some phones are class C | 18:25 |
| jacekowski | and only nokia N series and couple other phones are class A | 18:25 |
| GAN900 | Gizmokid2005, no AT&T 3G support. | 18:25 |
| Gizmokid2005 | DocScrutinizer: it's not a carrier problem. I can guarantee it. | 18:25 |
| Gizmokid2005 | GAN900: thank you. I know that. | 18:25 |
| Gizmokid2005 | THAT is my point | 18:25 |
| GAN900 | Gizmokid2005, EDGE is call or data onlu. | 18:25 |
| Gizmokid2005 | it's an edge limitation | 18:25 |
| h4waii | Gizmokid2005 - it is a carrier problem. We guarantee it. | 18:25 |
| GAN900 | Gizmokid2005, it's a bit of both. | 18:25 |
| Gizmokid2005 | and I'm asking if there's any way that I can make the N900 actually kill the data or listen periodically for voice instead of blocking it. | 18:26 |
| GAN900 | Mostly it's on Nokia for not supporting the larger US carrier. | 18:26 |
| h4waii | Your N900 isn't "blocking" it. | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: (EDGE is call or data onlu) see jacekowski ^^^ class A | 18:26 |
| Gizmokid2005 | h4waii: yes. It is. How else would you describe what's going on? | 18:26 |
| Gizmokid2005 | the carrier just says you aren't going to get it? | 18:26 |
| Gizmokid2005 | the call is being sent. The radio in the N900, drivers or otherwise, is ignoring it because it's busy with data | 18:27 |
| Gizmokid2005 | since it's not 3G and doesn't have concurrent data/voice. | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | incorrect | 18:27 |
| h4waii | Go ahead and argue all you want. It's a carrier problem - and that means network or switch related. | 18:27 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: ramzswap reports the size of the backing store to the system. ramzswap cannot report the size of the compressed memory + the size of the swap partition to the system, since ramzswap cannot know how much will fit into the compressed memory. | 18:27 |
| h4waii | If you want to imagine otherwise, be my guest. | 18:27 |
| tobis87 | but this means that the system can only use the size of the backing store for swap, because even if there would be space left on the swap partition the sytem only knows of a swap with the size of the backing store. | 18:27 |
| Kegetys | phone calls work fine for me even when on edge on n900 | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: ^^^ see? | 18:28 |
| Gizmokid2005 | yes, outgoing works BEAUTIFUL | 18:28 |
| h4waii | Andw when you're proven ridiculously wrong, I want you to feel like an ass. | 18:28 |
| Kegetys | in and out | 18:28 |
| daleglass | tobis87: aha that makes sense. Will have to give it a try then | 18:28 |
| Gizmokid2005 | as does incoming when I have absolutely NOTHING going that uses data | 18:28 |
| tobis87 | ramzswap 32mb + swap partition 768mb -> ramzswap reports 768mb not 832mb (64mb possible compressed + 768mb partition) -> system can only use 768mb (64mb possible compressed + 768mb partition - 64mb unknown to system) | 18:28 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | ie - IM, twitter, browser, etc. | 18:28 |
| Gizmokid2005 | email is ok, as that's not a consistent connection | 18:28 |
| GAN900 | It's an EDGE limitation. | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: it's your carrier not signalling the call to you when data transfer is eating all the bandwidth | 18:29 |
| h4waii | AKA CARRIER ISSUE. | 18:29 |
| Kegetys | the data connection turns off when there is a call coming for me, and comes back when the call ends | 18:29 |
| GAN900 | Or SMS. | 18:29 |
| tobis87 | daleglass: but this is only how i can think of it, i'm not that great in reading code... | 18:29 |
| Gizmokid2005 | well, I'm not going to argue. It is what it is. Considering I've already seen it confirmed as a device issue and was looking for a fix. Believe what you want. | 18:29 |
| Gizmokid2005 | thanks for the information guys. | 18:30 |
| h4waii | Hahaha | 18:30 |
| GAN900 | Nokia is hateful for not supporting AT&T, though. | 18:30 |
| h4waii | Who confirmed it was a "Device issue" to you? You or one of your less-than-skilled friends? | 18:30 |
| Kegetys | get a prepaid card from another provider and try it then | 18:30 |
| GAN900 | No pre-paid data. | 18:30 |
| Kegetys | or test with friends sim card | 18:30 |
| h4waii | You're going to try and refute facts, from some very intelligent people here - about the issue? | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: anyway, you simply have to make your downloads throttle a bit, leaving spare slots for call signalling, and everything will be fine | 18:30 |
| GAN900 | Another fine example of why Nokia lost the US market. | 18:31 |
| jpinx-eeepc | in an xterm on the n900, why would "mount -o loop os.img mountpoint" prodduce and error of "failed, Invalid argument" ? | 18:31 |
| Gizmokid2005 | DocScrutinizer: that's part of my point I'm trying to make but nobody cares to actually listen. They'd rather stomp on me and ignore anything I"m trying to say/describe and just call me fucking stupid. I do NOT have ANY downloads EVER running on my device. Just normal Data usage from using the browser, etc. | 18:31 |
| Kegetys | well have you tried it with any other provider than what you have now? | 18:32 |
| h4waii | No, it's because you are ignorant. | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: meh | 18:32 |
| h4waii | Kegetys - he's probably also "testing" it on the same tower, using the same carrier switch. | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and your broswer probably gets his pages by ... what exactly? not by download? | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG | how do I write discs? | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG | mkisofs, right | 18:33 |
| Gizmokid2005 | exactly what I"m talking about. | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 18:33 |
| alterego | Yes | 18:33 |
| MNZ | MohammadAG, cdrecord | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:/mnt# mkisofs | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | -sh: mkisofs: not found | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | grr | 18:33 |
| Gizmokid2005 | Kegetys: I don't have any friends who don't have AT&T and still have SIMs. The rest of the people I know are Sprint, so that's not an option | 18:33 |
| h4waii | That's for making an iso from fs | 18:33 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: it's in by default on my buntu box | 18:33 |
| h4waii | er | 18:33 |
| Kegetys | Gizmokid2005: how did yo come into the conclusion that the problem is the device then? | 18:34 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I know DocScrutinizer, that the browser has to download, obviously. My point is I don't have any full downloads that are running in the background, it's normal browsing traffic | 18:34 |
| h4waii | nevremind. | 18:34 |
| * lcuk wakes again | 18:34 | |
| MNZ | MohammadAG, cdrecord and mkisofs are not in the repos for obvious reasons haha | 18:34 |
| Gizmokid2005 | Kegetys: because I have other devices that work fine, even when 3G is disabled, or they don't have 3G capability like the N900 | 18:34 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, N900 != Ubuntu though :) | 18:34 |
| alterego | Well, install ubuntu then :P | 18:34 |
| alterego | I thought that was your project too! :D | 18:34 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I wouldn't come in here if I didn't have a reasonably high level of certainty this was a carrier issue. I'd be all over them to fix something. | 18:34 |
| h4waii | Grab the arm packages. | 18:34 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I love my N900, but I'm irritated that when actually using it how it should be, it kills what the device really is. | 18:35 |
| wmarone | ugh | 18:35 |
| wmarone | terrible scrollback | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, it is/was | 18:35 |
| lcuk | Gizmokid2005, since I just woke up, can I have a short refresher about your problem | 18:35 |
| h4waii | lcuk, n900 not receiving sms/calls when a full data rx/tx session is in swing | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: there've been reports of it just working, on EDGE, for inbound calls. Wiki and specs of N900 also suggest it SHALL work. Now please stop bitching | 18:36 |
| Gizmokid2005 | lcuk: ^^ pretty much. On AT&T with no 3G, only edge. The device doesn't allow the voice packets through and hold the data connection | 18:36 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:36 |
| alterego | Gizmokid2005: that's a propblem with 2G | 18:37 |
| Gizmokid2005 | DocScrutinizer: IT DOES FUCKING WORK. When you are only doing one thing at a time.. | 18:37 |
| * lcuk never noticed connections failing | 18:37 | |
| alterego | Gizmokid2005: literally the spec doesn't allow it. | 18:37 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, you're not on EDGE. | 18:37 |
| lcuk | Gizmokid2005, so when I have xchat running | 18:37 |
| alterego | Gizmokid2005: if the phone call is short, you shouldn't get disconnected though | 18:37 |
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| lcuk | GAN900, is edge only in US? | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THAT, WE TOLD YOU ITS A CARRIER ISSUE!!!1!! and stop shoutong! | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG | mine goes to the voicemail | 18:37 |
| stonda | yep, mine does the HO from data conn to phone call just fine on edge. | 18:37 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I know alterego. I don't have that issue and I know how that works anyways. that's not the problem | 18:38 |
| MohammadAG | actually, it went to the voicemail in jordan, when I was on 2.5 | 18:38 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | anyways, I'll leave you all to your own devices. Nobody seems to /really/ care because it doesn't affect you..That's how this world works, I've accepted it. G'day. | 18:38 |
| lcuk | Gizmokid2005, so every time you get a call data stops coming in? | 18:38 |
| lcuk | what sort of data downloads do you mean? | 18:38 |
| h4waii | Gizmokid2005 - get a T-Mobile SIM, drop your device to 2G and see what happens. | 18:38 |
| wmarone | heh | 18:38 |
| lcuk | streaming radio? torrents? irc? | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: huh? so what's class-A then? | 18:38 |
| stonda | usually what it might do is, that i'm doing something else which is eating up the resources, the device might drop a call (like updating HAM) | 18:39 |
| h4waii | Barely any carriers support Class-A. | 18:39 |
| stonda | but i still get the notification of a missed call | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what we say all the time! | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a carrier issue | 18:39 |
| h4waii | LOL | 18:40 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: as far as I know, connectivity types below 3G doen't alloow simultaneous data+phone | 18:40 |
| * lcuk wonders what "full swing" means in the context of mobile data | 18:40 | |
| alterego | Which seems to be what he's having an issue with | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | and of course the problem needs not only a non-supporting carrier to show up, but also a powerful device that does DL at full bandwidth | 18:41 |
| h4waii | He's having an issue with a misconfigured SWITCH, controlled by AT&T - not signaling his calls due to collisions. | 18:41 |
| lcuk | sigh | 18:41 |
| h4waii | That's all it is. | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: that's axactly what clas-A is all about | 18:41 |
| Kegetys | wel, I just tested it on my N900: I set it to edge, started download of a 100MB file, while it was downloading I called it. The download got paused and the phone rang normally | 18:42 |
| wmarone | Kegetys: carrier? | 18:42 |
| kerio | what happened to the download afterwards? | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: exactly | 18:42 |
| Kegetys | saunalahti | 18:42 |
| h4waii | DocScrutinizer51: I tried to tell him. | 18:43 |
| lcuk | Gizmokid2005, so its not bandwidth thats the problem | 18:43 |
| lcuk | you mention twitter | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: he started shouting | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | so meh | 18:43 |
| h4waii | He came in with a shit attitude. | 18:43 |
| sp3000 | Kegetys: was it a no network pause or a voluntary pause for responsiveness? | 18:43 |
| h4waii | Claiming he did testing and confirmed it and 'shut up and fix my problem instead of telling me what thactual problem is' | 18:43 |
| Gizmokid2005 | Haha. Blame the shit attitude on me. I came in asking questions and was told to piss off. I'm not the one with the shit attitude. | 18:43 |
| Kegetys | sp3000: the data connection pauses for the duration of the call, just like it is meant to do | 18:44 |
| h4waii | Gizmokid2005 - I can have a shit attitude, because I have the answers to your problems. | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gizmokid2005: actually you are | 18:44 |
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| Kegetys | and it is not working for Gizmokid2005, he blames the device but it works for my device. so either his device is broken or his provider is broken | 18:44 |
| kerio | his provider is at&t | 18:44 |
| alterego | Urgh | 18:44 |
| kerio | so yeah | 18:44 |
| h4waii | kerio, lol | 18:45 |
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| alterego | Ignore Doche's been moody for the past week. | 18:45 |
| h4waii | Post-op. | 18:45 |
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| sp3000 | Kegetys: I'm having trouble parsing that, what works for you? ...pausing? | 18:46 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, h4waii - stop jumping on it just being the carrier | 18:46 |
| sp3000 | fwiw I can browse while on a call just fine | 18:46 |
| Kegetys | sp3000: calling the phone when its on 2G and data transfer is in progress | 18:46 |
| lcuk | its entirely feasible he mightv fucked up his phone too | 18:46 |
| sp3000 | oh 2g | 18:46 |
| h4waii | Why? We know it's a carrier-related issue. It's the switch. | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: quite possible | 18:46 |
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| h4waii | It's ENTIRELY feasible, yes. But HIGHLY unlikely. | 18:46 |
| lcuk | because jumping and saying its a carrier issue cuts him off before you can try to do some specific tests | 18:47 |
| h4waii | He would have to had botched the daemons so badly, that nothing else worked. | 18:47 |
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| h4waii | He's not prepared to do any specific tests. | 18:47 |
| h4waii | He has an AT&T SIM. That is all. | 18:47 |
| petteri | i am writing a simple python script that is polling some services for every 10 minutes. Any tips on how to suspend the the polling when phone is on stanby? | 18:47 |
| lcuk | Gizmokid2005, you said you missed 12 calls | 18:48 |
| sp3000 | petteri: there's dbus signals or such | 18:48 |
| lcuk | how did you confirm you missed 12 calls | 18:48 |
| lcuk | and if you know there is a problem, how did you test it | 18:48 |
| petteri | sp3000: do you have any links/documentation? | 18:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | petteri: define "standby" | 18:49 |
| petteri | DocScrutinizer: when the screen is blank | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | k, there's a dbus msg telling it's blanking the screen I guess. check with dbus-monitor --system | 18:49 |
| petteri | DocScrutinizer: ok thansk. I will look it up | 18:50 |
| sp3000 | petteri: not offhand, I don't dabble in that much | 18:50 |
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| sp3000 | but yeah, dbus-monitoring for the available chatter is a good start | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | you probably even could use dbus-scripting pkg to start and stop your process accordingly | 18:50 |
| h4waii | dbus-scripts and dbus-scripts-settings & | 18:51 |
| h4waii | ^ | 18:51 |
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| h4waii | Don't fuck up the syntx though. You'll want to commit seppuku. | 18:51 |
| ircmasterman | http://bit.ly/c6bASW | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, see my fork-bomb problem, when I had a random file in /etc/dbus-scripts.d/ | 18:52 |
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| h4waii | I also had an issue with it :P | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fscking idiot - don't klick that link. It's spam | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably | 18:53 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 18:53 | |
| h4waii | It's a German site or something. | 18:54 |
| h4waii | Robesonhall.com | 18:54 |
| *** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b *!*@p54A9734E.dip.t-dialin.net | 18:54 | |
| h4waii | I think it's for pre-paid top-ups. I can't read this. | 18:54 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 18:54 | |
| jacekowski | Gizmokid2005: nokia n900 can do concurrent data and voice | 18:56 |
| * lcuk is more interested to know how you find out 12 calls get missed | 18:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: we told him several times now | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: voicebox? | 18:57 |
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| lcuk | do any of the battery/system monitoring programs also log the signal strength/mode? | 18:58 |
| h4waii | No. | 18:58 |
| lcuk | thats a shame | 18:58 |
| lcuk | add some gps logs | 18:58 |
| lcuk | and you could map your signal variance around you | 18:59 |
| h4waii | You can easily do it with dbus camping | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's mostly due to the fact cellmo doesn't offer to much info anyway | 18:59 |
| lcuk | it shows it to a widget | 18:59 |
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| lcuk | so the information is around | 18:59 |
| h4waii | It's reported every time a signal change happens. | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, mere signal strength is the most frequent msg on dbus :-P | 18:59 |
| h4waii | I contemplated writing a small daemon to vibrate when the signal is dangerously low and a voice call is in progress | 19:00 |
| h4waii | so you'd get a little notice before your call dropped. | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: great idea | 19:00 |
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| h4waii | Yeah. I got about half way, then I stopped. | 19:01 |
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| h4waii | I lost the code too, so I just didn't bother. | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | though you'd first need to check if signal strength reports are of any accuracy during a call | 19:01 |
| lcuk | batterygraph shows network | 19:01 |
| Kegetys | having the vibrator buzz in your ear when you're on a poor signal area doesn't sound that good to me | 19:01 |
| lcuk | i wonder if thats data | 19:01 |
| lcuk | hmm | 19:01 |
| h4waii | Kegetys, it'd used the TS Pattern, so it's very low and inobtrusive. | 19:02 |
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| h4waii | You can't define tones, so any notification would sound the same and be hard to distinguish. | 19:02 |
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| h4waii | Actually, I'll put it on my list of things to do for the AT&T app challenge. | 19:03 |
| h4waii | I plan on getting a cool million bucks. | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, MCE is a mad thing! Do a echo 30 >/sys/bus/platform/devices/twl4030_vibra/leds\:twl4030\:vibrator/brightness | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | scary | 19:08 |
| MohammadAG | I'm guessing it vibrates 1 sec then turns off | 19:08 |
| Kegetys | will it cause my device to shake itself to pieces? | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: even much more weird | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Kegetys: after several hours possibly :-D | 19:09 |
| MohammadAG | it vibrates, squeaks too | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | luckily it stops on echo 0 | 19:09 |
| jacekowski | vibrator brightness? | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, nice - isn't it? :-P | 19:10 |
| jacekowski | does it try to pass so much current trough it so it starts to glow? | 19:10 |
| felipec | hmm, where are the -dbg packages? | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | */speed somewhere up the path had same effect | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: sounds like that, yes | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG called it squeeking | 19:11 |
| Kegetys | if it vibrates fast enough it should be able to create light I guess | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Kegetys: yeah, synchrotron radiation :-D | 19:12 |
| * MohammadAG doesn't get it | 19:12 | |
| MohammadAG | what's so evil about it? | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: the vib? | 19:13 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yeah | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | just acts like playing random patterns, of which only a small part actually is matching the value you echoed to brightness node | 19:14 |
| kerio | because it makes you tingly in places your mommy said to never touch because it's a sin | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you'd think echo 30 >brightness makes the device run smoothly and continuously at a 30/255 power level | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | not make it hum and squeak at random patterns | 19:16 |
| h4waii | Hm. sshd is running but I can't get access | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw this also indicates mce is eating up cpu cycles and energy for doing nonsense | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks to me like mce never stopped playback of last (random) pattern to vibrator kernel module, and just has set some duration or power or whatever sysnode to 0 | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | to make vibrator actually stop | 19:21 |
| h4waii | power to 0 would stop it. | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | thank you very much for disclosing the friggin mce source, so we could check and fix | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | but meh, then we were able to also fix the braindamaged usage of engine3 in LP5523 exclusively for 200ms kbd LED ramp-up/down. That MUST NOT happen! | 19:24 |
| jacekowski | ? | 19:26 |
| * sivang just observed how tracker grinds the device to a near halt. | 19:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | nota bene most if not all indicator patterns show up during screen dim only, where kbd LEDs clearly don't have to fade-in/out. So nothing *really* blocks engine3, even if we'd (ab)use it for this much-too-simple task of doing a 200ms ramp for those LEDs | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | another case of "we don't need that" | 19:27 |
| lcuk | sivang, what was it indexing? | 19:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | where we=Nokia, and the users won't get that feature as well then, as it's impossible to implement later - it conflicts with retarded mce | 19:28 |
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| sivang | lcuk: I wish I noted that, it went out of it for the time being- does it have a log somewhere? | 19:30 |
| lcuk | not sure actually | 19:31 |
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| lcuk | I only noticed it in the past when I used usb to copy some big movies on and the indexer said it would take until the next ice age to do it | 19:31 |
| lcuk | thankfully that bug seems to be fixed | 19:31 |
| lcuk | but I know sometimes it can be caught - had you been making movies or photos ? | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: edit priority setting in tracker's config file. It nicely nices trackerd | 19:32 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: now i know why I got thisjerky UI and all other odd quirks at time, I started sitting with a top through SSH and noticed the major culrprit is tracker | 19:33 |
| lcuk | wheres the bug report telling the engineers that DocScrutinizer - its no use users having to dig and find a setting | 19:33 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: will do , thanks | 19:33 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: is it okay to ignore the chown and symlink erros when rsyncing to the mSD (it is vfat, so is understandable) | 19:33 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: re: / backup | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I'd not consider this a bug | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: no | 19:34 |
| lcuk | then why do you consider needing to change it - especially if it has such a helpful effect | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: target fs must be a ext3 or the likes | 19:34 |
| lcuk | as you suggest | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's on user's discretion to set tracker to any priority he likes | 19:34 |
| lcuk | not really | 19:34 |
| lcuk | user shouldnt give a damn about tracker | 19:34 |
| lcuk | should never know it exists | 19:35 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 19:35 | |
| lcuk | if it was working perfectly | 19:35 |
| h4waii | lcuk, thank you for @'ing me on that. | 19:35 |
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| h4waii | fuck this. I am writing a post about this idiot. | 19:38 |
| lcuk | look in a mirror, he came in asking legit question about his device | 19:38 |
| h4waii | I gave him a legit answer. | 19:39 |
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| h4waii | Who cares about how it was delivered? | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: for your convenience: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 19:39 |
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| h4waii | I'd ike to seriously discuss this, because many people have condemned the very community that provides support to them. | 19:40 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: right, remind me why rsyncing / is required ? | 19:40 |
| h4waii | Same goes for the Engadget article when he bitched about Android yet no official safety nets. | 19:40 |
| h4waii | I'd like to have a real serious discussion. | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | ev'ning | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: full backup | 19:41 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: I mean, I did not spot thatt the reflashing docs mention it :) | 19:41 |
| lardman | evening all | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: well, that's how i backup personally | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: if you want to go by the book, use internal backup tool and backup your eMMC | 19:42 |
| lcuk | h4waii, ok you want serious discussion about attitudes - lets use this specific issue. guy came in with a peripheral problem, DocScrutinizer and yourself jumped on the fact that it was entirely carrier based then shouted. no wondering how or why the problem occured, not fact finding. simple dismissal and arrogance towards a user experiencing a real issue | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | it never works out nicely for me as in the past, i flashed several times a day | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I have Throttle=10 in my tracker.cfg, and on monitoring system yesterday evening after copying those 13GB of mp3, I watched trackerd(-*) running at niceness 20 and CPU load rarely over 30% | 19:43 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: and eMMC is /home right? | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | home/user/MyDocs | 19:43 |
| lcuk | and for the record h4waii this channel does not tolerate swearing | 19:43 |
| h4waii | lcuk; You can't leave out specifics. | 19:43 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, congrats, by the way. | 19:43 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, you guys picking a chair? | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ME shouted? I just answered in same volume he bitched at me not giving the right answers to him | 19:43 |
| h4waii | lcuk; Duly noted on the offensive language. Sory. | 19:43 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, ok, repeated every time | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 19:44 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: NAFAIK. I've been in Greece since Thursday with ropey comms. | 19:44 |
| sivang | I know this seems I'm asking the same questions again, but it is not easily apparent on the flashing docs where/ which fs's to backup etc apart from using the hildon bakcup program | 19:44 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, ah, sounds fun. | 19:44 |
| lardman | Jaffa: and currency | 19:44 |
| * Jaffa 's going to suggest timsamoff ;-) | 19:44 | |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, do any rioting? | 19:44 |
| h4waii | lcuk; Guy comes in with a SORE topic that has been discussed before. We provide an answer, direct and concise. He ignores. | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-09-25 17:37:08] <Gizmokid2005> DocScrutinizer: IT DOES FUCKING WORK. When you are only doing one thing at a time.. | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-09-25 17:37:53] <DocScrutinizer> Gizmokid2005: I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THAT, WE TOLD YOU ITS A CARRIER ISSUE!!!1!! and stop shoutong! | 19:45 |
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| lcuk | h4waii, hmm - whats the bug report about missing calls due to carrier? | 19:45 |
| Jaffa | GAN900: Company conference with them picking up the bar tab. Much looting and rioting ensued. | 19:45 |
| lardman | :) | 19:45 |
| sivang | Jaffa: a conference in greece? sounds leisureish | 19:45 |
| lcuk | wheres the logs from others experiencing the lovely issue | 19:45 |
| * Jaffa went to bed at 03:30 on Thursday night (others were 06:30 both nights) | 19:46 | |
| lcuk | hi Jaffa lardman GAN900 btw ;) | 19:46 |
| Jaffa | sivang: Need to have a couple of hours of presentations so the company can make it tax deductible? | 19:46 |
| Jaffa | s/\?/./ | 19:46 |
| h4waii | lcuk; You really want me to grep through the logs for it? It has been discussed, there are no bug reports filed...because it's a *carrier* issue. | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: on which bugtracker? carrier's bugtracker? | 19:46 |
| lardman | hi lcuk | 19:46 |
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| sivang | Jaffa: ohh | 19:46 |
| lcuk | h4waii, yes - you state that its been discussed before - this channel has full complete public logs | 19:47 |
| lcuk | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html | 19:47 |
| lcuk | start there | 19:47 |
| h4waii | lcuk; although I am on IRC, I do have other things I am doing athe same time. | 19:47 |
| sivang | Jaffa: which company is this? :-) | 19:48 |
| h4waii | lcuk, sifting through log files for one discussion to prove my point is not what I'd like to do at this moment. | 19:48 |
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| lcuk | nor would anyone | 19:48 |
| h4waii | lcuk, having said that...I understand where you are coming from. | 19:49 |
| * lardman is currently downloading all property price data for Bath, at random intervals, to perform a meta-analysis and persuade his wife that things are currently overpriced | 19:49 | |
| sivang | Stskeeps: there is not way to mount / in a host system right? I only see the device adding one devnode for the internal storage (is this the eMMC?) and another for the MSD | 19:49 |
| lcuk | i would just like to know how you manage to know specifically he is not having a problem with his n900 | 19:49 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: mSD | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: no, it's on the internal NAND | 19:49 |
| lcuk | because theres all sorts of things that might fuck up | 19:49 |
| h4waii | lcuk, I don't know for an absolute *fact* it's not his N900 - the same way I don't know for an absolute *fact* that te sky is blue. | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: evaluation of likelihood | 19:49 |
| lardman | lcuk: language... ;) | 19:49 |
| * lcuk puts 10p in the swearjar | 19:49 | |
| sivang | Stskeeps: is there a doc somehwere about the memory layout and filesystems and the corrosponding mem devs they use? | 19:49 |
| lcuk | :$ | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: 'mount' :> | 19:50 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, its not been brought up before | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: or call it Occam's razor | 19:50 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: mount is confusing, does not say which is which :) | 19:50 |
| lardman | lcuk: I probably still owe the channel swearjar a few $k | 19:50 |
| * sivang mount's again | 19:50 | |
| lcuk | lol | 19:50 |
| h4waii | lcuk, but having dealt with the issue before, with the N900 and other devices with the SAME carrier - it's plain logic, and yes, assumption, of an answer. | 19:50 |
| lcuk | where do you deal with this problem? | 19:50 |
| lcuk | on other sites? at work? | 19:51 |
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| lcuk | because what I know of the N900 is that users manage to do the strangest things to it | 19:51 |
| sivang | okay, so /dev/mmcblk0p2 is the eMMC where /home is, and /dev/mmcblk1p1 is the vfat mSD | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | me at work, for OM. And several other places. It's also been discussed here in this chan before | 19:51 |
| h4waii | IRC, forums, real life. No, not at work. I work far far away from the mobile industry. | 19:51 |
| h4waii | I explicitly remember having a discussion in THIS channel about it. | 19:52 |
| h4waii | and dare I say, it was of similar style and "arrogance" because that is what the problem was/is. | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it's as simple as "if carrier is using all downstream slots for data, he is missing to signal a call to device." that's called collision I guess | 19:53 |
| h4waii | Issue came up, answer was provided, answer not taken at full face value - harping and hooning began and people started crying. | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and there's exactly zero you can do on MT side | 19:54 |
| h4waii | I called it a collision because that's the first thing that came to mind. It's more like out-of-resources case. | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | except throttling downstream | 19:54 |
| h4waii | Doc, precisely. | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | all this has been told to OP, but he insisted in a better answer | 19:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | see "...DocScrutinizer: IT DOES FUCKING WORK...." | 19:56 |
| lcuk | so, where is the document specifically outlining this so its not a case of irc wills | 19:56 |
| lcuk | for when the next person comes in | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | class A is explicitly mentioned in Nokia | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | s N900 specs | 19:56 |
| sivang | without knowing what this is about, i think that a user that swears and does not make a sane use of a community support channel, should not be answeed or just ignored? | 19:56 |
| h4waii | They should be kicked. | 19:57 |
| pupnik_ | http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/779/OCS1-8830_575px.jpg << i wish more cellphones had batteries like this - where they form the back part of the case - allows to make 'double-wide' batteries | 19:57 |
| sivang | yes, just like in other communities after being warned- see ubuntu | 19:57 |
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| kerio | pupnik_: see MUGEN battery | 19:58 |
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| sivang | is it sensible to format the mSD to ext3 through the device? or better do it mounted from the host system... | 19:59 |
| pupnik_ | kerio: yes, because the mugen solution sucks i suggest that alternative | 19:59 |
| h4waii | lcuk, do you think pointing a user who the same issue, to a wiki page that says exactly what we said will work better? | 19:59 |
| h4waii | sivang - works just fine. | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: and for the theory of fubar rootfs on N900 or whatever: If carrier *can* signal the call to rapuyama, the far end will get a call progress notification instead of a busy or "not available". So virtually no way whatsoever to mess up phone to a point where class A will fail | 20:00 |
| sivang | h4waii: on the device? I just did some rm -rf to the wrong created rsync of / and a call suddenly came in, so the call audio was jerky, can I assume from that the fs operations are intacnt? | 20:00 |
| sivang | h4waii: =) | 20:00 |
| sivang | *intact | 20:00 |
| * sivang thinks after he creates the backup he will reformat it to vfat | 20:01 | |
| h4waii | What was the question? lol | 20:01 |
| h4waii | I was just referring to mkfs.ext3 from device instead of removal. | 20:01 |
| sivang | h4waii: right, sorry again for my many question and noobness in this :) | 20:01 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: rapuyama signals that to main processor | 20:02 |
| sivang | h4waii: so if I mkfs.ext3 while a call comes in, it shouldn't affect the correctness of operation right? | 20:02 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and what happens when software runing on main processor have failed | 20:02 |
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| h4waii | sivang - correct. | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: it signals inbound call, yes. In that moment the call notification from carrier has succeeded | 20:02 |
| jacekowski | so if i would disable watchdog | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | disable reboot on panic | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | and cause panic | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | somebody could call me | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | and get nothing | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | i mean, he would think that it's ringing | 20:03 |
| jacekowski | but phone would do nothing at all | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and rapu fw still will tell carrier "roger, inbound call" | 20:03 |
| h4waii | We know it's *possible* to forcibly drop daemons to stop call signaling | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: exactly | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | while on failing class A you get a busy or 'not available' on far end, rather than a call progress | 20:04 |
| h4waii | However you'd have more issues than just that, if it were the case. | 20:04 |
| sivang | h4waii: just to share my experience, when I did a heavy rm -rf and a call came in, the audio was VERY jerky, good to know file operations take presedence over call audio | 20:04 |
| sivang | personally I'd prefer to lose calls than to lose ata | 20:05 |
| sivang | data | 20:05 |
| lcuk | missing so many calls in a day when hearing nothing about issues before and no noise from user about this issue sounds suspicious | 20:05 |
| h4waii | sivang - I have no idea if that's the case. | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: he didn't seem to be interested in monitoring his gprs downstream usage | 20:06 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: but you have constant communication over phonet | 20:06 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i would expect rapuyama to detect that main processor died | 20:06 |
| sivang | h4waii: k, thanks a lot so far. | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: academical, as OP claimed he's using EDGE flawlessly | 20:07 |
| h4waii | sivang - however, if you're receiving call after call - and don't have downtime to mkfs an SD card - the N900 probably doesn't cut it as a main phone anyways :P | 20:07 |
| * johnx sometimes feels like Nokia customer care for the N900 has been outsourced to maemo{talk,IRC} | 20:07 | |
| h4waii | You guys are getting paid?! | 20:07 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 20:07 |
| johnx | h4waii, yeah. paycheck should come aaaany day now | 20:07 |
| jacekowski | bread and water | 20:07 |
| h4waii | like, chocolate covered almonds or? | 20:07 |
| GAN900 | johnx, clearly it has. | 20:07 |
| lardman | surely that's part of the cost analysis when a company moved to open source... | 20:07 |
| sivang | haha | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: so what he called "...doing a single thing at a time [in browser]" could as well be watching youtube video | 20:08 |
| lcuk | sure it could, but I do the same and don't miss calls and I am sure I am not on 3g all the time | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe you're on a better carrier supporting class A? :-D | 20:08 |
| sivang | usually when you only get paid you will not lurk on the irc channel -p | 20:08 |
| sivang | you might do it enough already during workdays | 20:09 |
| Termana | Well, I don't know about you guys, but I receive money from Nokia. 1 cent, rounded down. | 20:09 |
| jacekowski | if i would want to do single thing i would buy an iphone | 20:09 |
| sivang | Termana: hehe | 20:09 |
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| * sivang ROTFLs | 20:09 | |
| lardman | I have troubles answering calls if I have HAM running, or if the phone decided to keep changing from portrait to landscape and back while I try to hit the Answer button | 20:09 |
| lardman | I also have troubles typing s rather than d | 20:09 |
| sivang | lardman: yes, I have this as well, but I did not upgrade to PR1.2 yet. | 20:09 |
| h4waii | the N900 sucks as a dedicated phone. Straight up. | 20:09 |
| lcuk | lardman, set it to portrait only | 20:09 |
| lcuk | turning control in the phone app | 20:10 |
| lardman | lcuk: ah good point | 20:10 |
| h4waii | lcuk. it still rotates. It doesn't define portrait as default window for creation. | 20:10 |
| johnx | h4waii, though the best 'dedicated' phone I ever used plugged into a wall and wasn't cordless :) | 20:10 |
| sivang | lcuk: mind you it does not always obey that :) | 20:10 |
| lardman | lcuk: hmm, already set to that | 20:10 |
| sivang | lcuk: I tried quite a while to use it | 20:10 |
| kerio | set the Phone app to always landscape then | 20:11 |
| lardman | h4waii: +1 | 20:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: btw carriers can configure each single BTS to either support class A or not | 20:11 |
| h4waii | kerio, kludge workaround. | 20:11 |
| kerio | always landscape is leet | 20:11 |
| johnx | kerio, side talking? | 20:12 |
| h4waii | Hahaha. Side talkin'. | 20:12 |
| kerio | well, when i hold the n900 at my ear, it's more horizontal than vertical | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: when focus is on a text input field, it always rotates to landscape unconditionally | 20:12 |
| * johnx should venture to talk.maemo.org and start a poll: "Bring side talkin' back?" | 20:12 | |
| * lardman thinks to himself how lovely Python is for webscraping | 20:12 | |
| kerio | lardman: scrapy? | 20:13 |
| kerio | beautifulsoup? | 20:13 |
| lardman | the latter | 20:13 |
| kerio | yeah, beautifulsoup is godly | 20:13 |
| lardman | nice and easy to knock up some code | 20:14 |
| johnx | lardman, dunno if this is helpful, but I just ran into this yesterday: http://arshaw.com/scrapemark/ | 20:14 |
| sivang | lardman: using beautifulsoup? | 20:14 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, please point me to somewhere official i can read this. really if its such a limitation there would be documentation about it. and are there workarounds that can be installed to throttle data as you suggest (rather than "watch your downloads") | 20:14 |
| lardman | johnx: thanks, will have a look | 20:14 |
| lardman | sivang: yep | 20:14 |
| h4waii | lcuk, would you like me to write a wiki entry for it? | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: I had a problem with dialer app not fixed to portrait though I set it in menu. deleting the corresponding config file fixed it | 20:15 |
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| sivang | h4waii: It is actually quite nice as a main phone, if you forgive the turning quirks and ocassional call miss due to the unfortunate placement of answer button and tunring while call is waiting to be answered. | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: iirc jacekowski pointed to a URL above. It has the details. Class A is mentioned in technical specs as of Nokia official, probably even user manual | 20:16 |
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| h4waii | Doc, it's designed to rotate though, is it created in portrait if selected or landscape and automagically rotated? | 20:16 |
| sivang | h4waii: this could probably be fixed easily if when reciving a turning event we check to see if a call is in process or waiting to be answered and ignore it. | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | h4waii: for me it looks like window is created in portrait | 20:17 |
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| sivang | h4waii: or responding to it after the call has been answered | 20:17 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, and what does a device being Class A mean to someone who is losing calls? | 20:18 |
| lcuk | and how can they stop losing calls | 20:18 |
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| lcuk | and why would they suddenly start losing calls for that matter | 20:18 |
| sivang | what's that class A, a GSM standard ? | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | it means it's carriers fault when a call doesn't come thru, and all that can be done is throttle downloads, to keep spare timeslots for carrier to signal call | 20:19 |
| lcuk | exactly | 20:19 |
| lcuk | "throttle downloads" | 20:19 |
| lcuk | does he need a straw counter? | 20:19 |
| lcuk | should he count "one elephant, two elephant" | 20:19 |
| h4waii | That's not a viable "fix" for an issue on the opposite end. | 20:19 |
| h4waii | AT&T has a misconfigured switch. | 20:19 |
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| h4waii | There is nothing he can do to seriously mitigate it. | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I haven't invented this issue, and I'm not actually interested in getting flamed about it | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | sarcasm not appreciated | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | bye | 20:20 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, you read datasheets thousands of pages in length, I am not trying to flame you, I just want something official to read about it | 20:20 |
| h4waii | It doesn't officially happen, lcuk. That's what there's nothing about it. | 20:21 |
| kerio | lcuk: it means that they're holding the phone wrong ;) | 20:21 |
| lcuk | haha kerio | 20:21 |
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| sivang | kerio: hehe | 20:21 |
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| sivang | so if a carrier does not support Class A properly (Class A IPs?) I will lose calls? | 20:22 |
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| lcuk | h4waii, if theres nothing official happening, how do you know with certainty that is his problem | 20:23 |
| h4waii | Absolutely no. | 20:23 |
| sivang | anyway,I'll stop trolling | 20:23 |
| lcuk | facts are important and dismissal without them is wrong | 20:23 |
| sivang | evening all, be back later | 20:23 |
| h4waii | Because unofficially, it happens, seldom, but it happens. | 20:23 |
| sivang | thanks for the help | 20:24 |
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| h4waii | things that happen to a huge, absoltuely ridiculously small minority, don't get brought up. | 20:25 |
| h4waii | Especially when it requires numerous arguments for it to happen. | 20:25 |
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| h4waii | X Y and Z have to be specific and THEN it requires a specific user to trigger the event. | 20:26 |
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| lcuk | well, I will find out what I can about this on Monday | 20:26 |
| lcuk | but for now I am going for food | 20:27 |
| h4waii | I'm willing to *bet* if you got him onto a tower that pipes to a different switch, *poof*. His issue woul go away. | 20:27 |
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| lcuk | h4waii, i would have liked to call him first whilst he has downlooads in progress then with downloads not in progress to test it, but thats just me. | 20:29 |
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| h4waii | Nobody would be able to predict what would happen. | 20:29 |
| lcuk | i wouldnt want to predict, i would want to confirm | 20:29 |
| h4waii | It depends on resource allocation anywhere from backbone, to switch, to tower. | 20:30 |
| h4waii | It wouldn't really confirm anything for you, except that "it happens sometimes". | 20:30 |
| lcuk | and you knowthis without any sort of documentation etc | 20:30 |
| h4waii | That's right. | 20:30 |
| h4waii | It's pure "login" when it comes to that sort of infrastructure. | 20:31 |
| lcuk | i will speak to folks on monday anyway and try to find some official documentation about it | 20:31 |
| h4waii | er, logic^ | 20:31 |
| h4waii | I'd like to know the official standing on it also, so I await your findings. Please ping me on them when you get it. | 20:32 |
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| lcuk | h4waii, well whilst I am doing that you could also be finding out what you know as I asked earlier | 20:33 |
| lcuk | so if you make the page and add all the info on it | 20:34 |
| lcuk | i will find out what I can | 20:34 |
| lcuk | since afterall you guaranteed to him that was the issue ;) | 20:35 |
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| h4waii | well all the info I add will be completely personal experience / opinion. | 20:36 |
| h4waii | Would you really consider that relevant? | 20:37 |
| lcuk | not really | 20:37 |
| h4waii | Are you asking people who work at AT&T? | 20:38 |
| lcuk | I dont know who I am going to ask yet, but I think having some kind of clear documentation about it would be good and has to exist somewhere | 20:39 |
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| h4waii | Query NOM1, NOM2 and DDTM. | 20:40 |
| lcuk | anyway my food has pinger | 20:40 |
| lcuk | pinged | 20:40 |
| h4waii | Specifically with AT&T. You'll get a metric pants-ton of threads about the issue. Unofficially, of course. | 20:40 |
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| h4waii | Okay ciao. | 20:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.nokia.de/produkte/mobiltelefone/nokia-n900/technische-daten >>GPRS, Klasse A, Multislot-Klasse 32,<< http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service#GPRS-Endger.C3.A4teklassen http://www.newlc.com/en/GPRS-Class-overview.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service#Hardware >>pseudo class-A... Some networks are expected to support DTM in 2007.<< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Transfer_Mode | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I seem to remeber Nokia advertising "DTM" in some of his flyers | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: ^^^ | 20:54 |
| h4waii | I'm wiki'ing this up. Somebody better post it for me. | 20:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >>DTM is a 3GPP baseline R99 feature.<< doesn't mean all carriers always support it fully | 20:57 |
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| pronto | woah all the repos are down | 20:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | They're upgrading them for PR1.4. | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | In 2010, devices with DTM multislot class 32 such as Nokia N900 are available. | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | (no, not really.) | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | (probably) | 21:00 |
| pronto | o_o | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | </quote> | 21:00 |
| Purti | Hi ..I am trying to install Meego SDK with Xephyr on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS which is running under Oracle VM ware. The host PC is Intel. | 21:00 |
| Purti | the VGA adapter inside ubuntu shows as VGA compatible controller: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH VirtualBox Graphics Adapter | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | so, IT IS a carrier problem | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | period, and ciao | 21:01 |
| h4waii | WOAH. NO WAY Doc! | 21:01 |
| Purti | will i be able to run Xephyr? | 21:01 |
| h4waii | Purti, yes. | 21:01 |
| johnx | Purti, oracle virtualbox? | 21:01 |
| h4waii | johnx, Sun. | 21:02 |
| johnx | h4waii, there is no such thing as sun | 21:02 |
| h4waii | C'mon. | 21:02 |
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| h4waii | There will always be a spot in my heart for Sun :P | 21:03 |
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| johnx | I just wish they'd made their CDDL, GPL compatible | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Transfer_Mode has *all* you ever wnated to know about missing_inbound_calls issue due to missing carrier support | 21:05 |
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| h4waii | I'm gonna sort it all out, gimme 15 minutes. | 21:07 |
| daleglass | Hrm. I noticed a kernel message saying that /home has FS problems. Is it possible to umount /home to run fsck? | 21:07 |
| h4waii | It's possible to fsck before mount. | 21:07 |
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| daleglass | good point, any standard way, or I should hack an init script? | 21:07 |
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| h4waii | Hack an init script. kernel-power supports a flag to enable it. | 21:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: and there's really very little you can do to fix this, when carrier doesn't support DTM. you *could* tear down the connection every 2s for 500ms, or somesuch, but that'S actually not practible. You also could make internet located servers throttle their downstream, but that's really really tricky | 21:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (see router QOS and bandwidth management for techniques how to establish that - especially used for SIP enabled routers) | 21:10 |
| daleglass | h4waii: awesome, found it, and running on kernel-power already. Thanks | 21:11 |
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| daleglass | now the question is, why do I have problems on ext3 in the first place? it's supposed to have a journal | 21:12 |
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| h4waii | DocScrutinizer lcuk: http://pastebin.com/Yk8NfEty | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ext3s journal is not a magic pixie. | 21:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - ext3 is not on the root device | 21:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless you've severely fucked your device. | 21:15 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: what does the rootfs use? ubifs? | 21:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes | 21:17 |
| daleglass | SpeedEvil: it's not a magic pixie, but the journal is supposed to ensure FS consistency. If that's not holding that should mean a kernel bug or hardware issue | 21:17 |
| kerio | ubifs is sweet | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | indeed | 21:17 |
| h4waii | lmfao | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | daleglass: Not quite. | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | idk why the image has a rootfs.jffs2 extenseion | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | daleglass: It ensures FS consistency assuming it has a write ordered block device. | 21:17 |
| kerio | moved from jffs2 to ubifs on my sheevaplug | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | daleglass: The emmc does not do write ordering or commit barriers. | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Nor do SD cards | 21:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | And crashes that corrupt memory can still screw the FS. | 21:18 |
| jacekowski | omap emmc controller do | 21:18 |
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| daleglass | SpeedEvil: hm, I suppose I'll call that a hardware issue. Stupid design in this time and age, IMO | 21:18 |
| jacekowski | and emmc memory has to do whatever controllers tells it to do | 21:18 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: The internal emmc controller does not. | 21:19 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, :) thanks, h4waii that pastebin doesn't make as much sense as what doc posted. so the advice to Gizmokid2005 would be to contact his carrier (and hopefully being able to point them at a combined document/references about specifics) and see what they come back with? :) | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: The emmc is _not_ a dumb nand flash device. It's got a complex werar leveling thing inside. | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: which unfortunately breaks write barriers. | 21:19 |
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| jacekowski | isn't wear leveling supposed to be done by controller in omap | 21:19 |
| h4waii | lcuk http://pastie.org/1181325 | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: You're thinking of the oneNAND | 21:20 |
| h4waii | Ammended to the bottom. | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: my advice would be something different, but that's me and my mood today | 21:20 |
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| lcuk | and DocScrutinizer - its so much better to have something like that to actually point people to read than just ircing it - i do appreciate you digging | 21:20 |
| javispedro | eMMC uses same interface as your average mmc | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: that is dealt with in kernel by ubifs largely | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: emmc/SD is basically the same. | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It emulates a 'perfect' block device | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Error free, and of fixed size | 21:20 |
| kerio | yeah, right :) | 21:21 |
| h4waii | So at the end of the day, are you willing to agree it is a carrier issue, lcuk? | 21:21 |
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| lcuk | h4waii, could you add that to the wiki but include link to the article doc posted too | 21:21 |
| h4waii | I don't actually think I have a community account for wiki edits :P | 21:22 |
| lcuk | h4waii, now that theres more coverage and real facts presented yes, but I will not take anytihng anyone says on irc at face value | 21:22 |
| daleglass | SpeedEvil: since you seem knowledgeable, there's one thing I've been wondering: is swap on the same or a different device than the rest? Meaning, if swap were to wear things out is swap all that will break, or the entire device is hosed? | 21:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeterminate. | 21:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | swap's on the eMMc | 21:23 |
| SpeedEvil | The wear leveling algorithms differ per-device | 21:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | C* | 21:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | the rest, idk | 21:23 |
| h4waii | lcuk - THAT is one of the reasons I talk with arrogance and conviction. Anything less is flimsy and ignored. | 21:23 |
| lcuk | h4waii, nahh, a short real article with references that can be pointed to is better than arrogance | 21:24 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.mail-archive.com/devel@lists.laptop.org/msg24533.html daleglass | 21:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | (not me) | 21:24 |
| h4waii | Short real articles with reference don't always exist for all topics. | 21:24 |
| lcuk | they do now :) | 21:24 |
| javispedro | : but possible the real device will hose as it runs out of spare block | 21:24 |
| javispedro | er.. | 21:24 |
| lcuk | h4waii, if they dont exist then someone isn't documenting their steps correctly | 21:24 |
| h4waii | well that's where IRC fits in. It's the banter between documentation. | 21:25 |
| lcuk | yip, so with all the shouting and assumptions made this afternoon, we have some clear information boiled out of it incase the next person comes and asks | 21:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I would - if I could be arsed - put swap on SD | 21:26 |
| jacekowski | but phone has connection to 2g and 3g at the same time | 21:26 |
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| h4waii | If the next person comes and asks, and doesn't believe me - I will still hoon them, lcuk. Especially after they didn't read the wiki. | 21:27 |
| javispedro | I usually put swap on SD when starting chroots, etc. | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | if both are avaliable | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | javispedro: that's slow | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | fastest SD i could find is slower than builtin eMMC | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | microsd | 21:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Slower by what measure? | 21:27 |
| javispedro | I know -- but helps prevent the long uptime "turnaround" issue | 21:27 |
| lcuk | h4waii, the problem you had was you "hooned" him when he was clearly trying to help himself ;) | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | write speed | 21:28 |
| lcuk | remember his actual problem was that search wasnt working | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I want per-user swap. | 21:28 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 21:28 | |
| RST38bis | test | 21:28 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: that shouldn't be too complicated | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | tracker runs under the 'nonrealtime' user - and swaps to the nonrealtime device | 21:28 |
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| johnx | RST38bis, 0/1 tests succeeded | 21:29 |
| javispedro | the issue here is "why tracker swaps" | 21:29 |
| jacekowski | because it's using too much memory | 21:29 |
| h4waii | lcuk, I'm a firm believer that a person should help themselves, before asking for help. That means reading first. | 21:29 |
| h4waii | lcuk, had he spent 30 seconds on Google, he would have found it's a carrier/network issue. | 21:29 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Tracker was an example. | 21:29 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not sure it swaps. | 21:30 |
| daleglass | SpeedEvil: thanks, that's exactly what I was worried about. What I'm pondering is, how much wear does swap put in the eMMC, and would it make sense to get a nice fast card and move swap there to save the device from wear? | 21:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | daleglass: probably, yes. | 21:30 |
| javispedro | daleglass: one year N900 owner, quite extensive use, zarro problems. | 21:30 |
| jacekowski | daleglass: it's not like system is writing to swap constantly | 21:30 |
| h4waii | I don't think you'll run into a r/w wear issue for the lifetime of the device. | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes it is. | 21:31 |
| daleglass | well I sure hope so, hehe. Still I'd like it to last a long time. I'm not 100% sure if the next nokia phone will be to my liking | 21:31 |
| h4waii | Do you want to thrash to a slow sd, or perform tasks with the quicker eMMC? | 21:31 |
| lcuk | h4waii, I spent 10 years helping old dears who don't even know how to use a mouse let alone the internet. ;) | 21:31 |
| daleglass | I've heard rumors that the next one might be considerably more locked down, and that wouldn't be fun at all | 21:31 |
| h4waii | lcuk, more patience than me. I greatly respect that. | 21:32 |
| javispedro | well, buy N900 stocks | 21:32 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: not when it's sleeping it's not | 21:32 |
| jacekowski | hmm, to many negations | 21:32 |
| javispedro | I am also considering that because N900+1 will have capacitive, so I hope price goes way down soon. | 21:32 |
| lcuk | h4waii :) | 21:32 |
| RST38bis | johnx: imagine this: I can now run Speccy in a Qt main window, and have even got the config UI working in Qt! | 21:33 |
| daleglass | javispedro: the N900 dropped in price to near half a few months ago, I think | 21:33 |
| RST38bis | Ok, "working" is a bit of overstatement, but it shows up perfectly well and even scrolls | 21:33 |
| johnx | RST38bis, ok, I'm imagining it. how far is it from reality? | 21:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | True. | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG3tLxEQEdg | 21:33 |
| lcuk | RST38bis, cool! does your emulib work on windows? | 21:33 |
| RST38bis | johnx: Prolly a week of intermittent hacking | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38: Woo! | 21:33 |
| RST38bis | lcuk: Even works on DOS | 21:34 |
| lcuk | haha | 21:34 |
| johnx | RST38bis, so it's not as awful as you thought? | 21:34 |
| MohammadAG | why did this fail https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/cdrkit_1.1.10-maemo1/ | 21:35 |
| * RST38bis tries to figure out how to receive QButton-clicked events without Qt signals | 21:35 | |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: check control file syntax | 21:35 |
| RST38bis | Because the MOC thing ended up being as much of a disaster as the QMake thing | 21:36 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: possibly with debian lenny/squeeze tools | 21:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I just start to get angry on users claiming "I know the root cause of the problem, not YOU start to fix it for me!" | 21:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | while they got nfc | 21:37 |
| RST38bis | johnx: Well, I never thought it really awful, but was surprised at how haphazard the thing is | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/not/now | 21:37 |
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| johnx | RST38bis, mainly turns out to be different levels of polish on the build tools vs the actual toolkit, right? | 21:38 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, it builds fine on scratchbox, sigh | 21:38 |
| RST38bis | johnx: Basically, yes, you can use Qt signals, but only if your headers and classes are really simple, the way Qt documentation describes | 21:38 |
| RST38bis | johnx: No, the problems appear to be a bit more global than the lack of polish | 21:38 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: on your scratchbox, I know. You should remember that AB is using a more recent version of debian tooling | 21:38 |
| johnx | organic evolution? | 21:38 |
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| RST38bis | johnx: For example, a class using Qt signals should be derived from exactly ONE Qt class. | 21:38 |
| RST38bis | johnx: Derive it from more than one, and the whole thing falls victim to a well known C++ "diamond" problem | 21:39 |
| javispedro | Stroustrup would be proud | 21:39 |
| RST38bis | johnx: And don't you try mixing C++ and C in your header file. MOC will *not* treat it as a C++ header. | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: if you're really inclined you can search the chan logs for "simple class a" and "dtm" - I'm sure we had all this before, like in february or sth | 21:41 |
| RST38bis | johnx: QMake will quietly drop sources that it *suspects* for circular inclusion from the project. | 21:41 |
| RST38bis | johnx: Which, btw, kills my gfx routines where header includes itself 3 times for different color depths | 21:42 |
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| johnx | fun times. moral of the story: "Don't be clever" :) | 21:43 |
| RST38bis | johnx: It is a known problem, the comment in the code apparently says "Well, this is wrong anyway, so let us drop it" | 21:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns - exhausting and unpleasant topic to argue about | 21:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer | (dtm) | 21:44 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, oh, I thought you were asking for suggestions :D | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not usually providing proof of every word I say to help somebody out of a misconception | 21:44 |
| javispedro | [citation needed] | 21:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if somebody knows so much better than me, then meh - why he's asking first place | 21:45 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, that's why I avoid arguments like that :) | 21:46 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I am merely interested in undocumented opinion and verifiable facts, normally you are good at finding them specifically (as you have done since!) | 21:47 |
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| pupnik_ | Why do they call it "TV Programming"? | 21:50 |
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| RST38bis | pupnik: they program your brain over TV! | 21:54 |
| pupnik_ | yep | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | FZ - "I'm the slime..." | 21:55 |
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| RST38bis | pupnik: Once you switch the sound off or turn your tv upside down, their dirty tricks no longer work though! =) | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | FOR FUCK'S SAKE | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | are any tmo mods online? | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | + 10 spam threads | 21:57 |
| RST38bis | yes, Mohammad? | 21:57 |
| RevdKathy | I notified on the spam - and tweeted Texrat, as it's his forum | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19 | 21:58 |
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| javispedro | don't worry, tmo vigilantes will soon be dispatched | 21:58 |
| RevdKathy | Th guy is working alphabeticly - long way to go to zopiclone | 21:58 |
| RST38bis | Kathy: When 1) it is spam and 2) you can delete it, delete it, do not tweet rats. | 21:58 |
| RevdKathy | How do I delete it? I don't have mod privileges | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | (slime) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdfMkkMnSJI | 21:59 |
| RST38bis | oh ok | 21:59 |
| RevdKathy | If I did the guy would have been toast after the second thread. Honest | 21:59 |
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| lardman|home | hmm, any TMO mods about to purge all posts by "long"? | 22:00 |
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| RevdKathy | He started at aciphex and has only got to asacol... Going to be a long night! | 22:01 |
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| rainbird | Hello peeps | 22:01 |
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| lardman|home | RST38bis: how come you're still a mod and I've been de-modified, what did I do wrong? :) | 22:02 |
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| MohammadAG | it's spamming off topic, nice xD | 22:02 |
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| RevdKathy | It's a very tidy, systematic spambot! | 22:03 |
| pupnik_ | RST38bis: i wear my maemo baseball cap with special filters | 22:03 |
| pupnik_ | heyas RevdKathy | 22:03 |
| rainbird | im kind of bored with my n900 :( any got any news to spice it up? | 22:03 |
| RST38bis | lardman: I am not a mod | 22:04 |
| javispedro | rainbird: do you have a sledgehammer nearby? | 22:04 |
| pupnik_ | RevdKathy is like Omap3 whereas pupnik is all Omap2 | 22:04 |
| RST38bis | lardman: never been | 22:04 |
| javispedro | ;P | 22:04 |
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| rainbird | RST38bis, I kind of considered it... | 22:04 |
| RST38bis | considered what? | 22:05 |
| rainbird | oops I mean javispedro | 22:05 |
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| lardman | RST38bis: apologies, must have read the wrong response | 22:06 |
| RevdKathy | Evening folks - to those who didn;t realise I was here. He's reached the 'b's now. | 22:06 |
| RevdKathy | Ahhhh doom bar! | 22:07 |
| RST38bis | I see he modestly skipped Aminazin... | 22:07 |
| lcukn900 | oh revdkathy you are here | 22:07 |
| RevdKathy | Yes - no need to text me! | 22:08 |
| javispedro | I feel the sudden urge to buy barrels of Betagan | 22:09 |
| lcukn900 | i just smsed you | 22:09 |
| RevdKathy | I know - I have opened an IRC window for you | 22:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lo RevdKathy | 22:11 |
| MNZ | hmmmm beetaaagen | 22:11 |
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| RevdKathy | Lo DocScrutinizer | 22:11 |
| GAN900 | 'grats, Kathy. | 22:12 |
| RevdKathy | Thanks Ryan - though confess I'm stil highly bewildered | 22:12 |
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| GAN900 | Ha | 22:12 |
| RevdKathy | Think some of the others are wondering what they're stuck with! | 22:12 |
| GAN900 | It's that damn Talk vote. | 22:12 |
| RevdKathy | Yeah, definitely | 22:13 |
| RevdKathy | Mind, if I hadn't stood, SJGadsby would have won... so rather regretting it. :p | 22:13 |
| javispedro | RevdKathy: you will still be bewildered by the end of your term... | 22:13 |
| RevdKathy | Gee Thanks Javispedro. THat's really ressuring! | 22:14 |
| javispedro | :) | 22:14 |
| GAN900 | He's unelectable, apparently. | 22:14 |
| GAN900 | I think he needs more ego. | 22:14 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, you aren't kidding. | 22:14 |
| * GAN900 is still behildered at the end of 3 terms. | 22:15 | |
| RevdKathy | Possibly. We will have to orchestrate a campaign for him next time! | 22:15 |
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| GAN900 | Aye | 22:15 |
| * RST38h whispers that it probably does not make a difference who gets elected | 22:15 | |
| GAN900 | RST38h, well, now that maemo.org is under community control. . . . | 22:16 |
| javispedro | RST38h: not on some topics, but it definitely does on others... | 22:16 |
| RevdKathy | I find that thought reassuring | 22:16 |
| RST38h | it is just a website | 22:16 |
| jacekowski | do you know that in most countries you can't be selected for more than 3 terms | 22:16 |
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| RST38h | the real issues (support, bugfixes, continuity with meego) are not going to be addressed by the council | 22:17 |
| MNZ | hahahahahahaah 3 terms?? ooonnnlyyy? | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | yeah, that gives other people chances to steal from you | 22:17 |
| MNZ | our current president has been president since 1981 | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | where? | 22:17 |
| MNZ | egypt | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | i would have to say something | 22:18 |
| CoToHaX | hi! how to enable changelog on package site (description), http://maemo.org/packages/view/somepackage? ) | 22:18 |
| jacekowski | but because i don't want to be banned i'm not going to | 22:18 |
| h4waii | wtf? MNZ - seriously? | 22:18 |
| RST38h | MNZ: Just means the army has not gathered enough money to stage a coup | 22:18 |
| MNZ | I'm not afraid of being banned. I just don't want to get jailed XD | 22:18 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, meh. | 22:19 |
| pupnik_ | hey javispedro did you see the GPU accelerated psx emulator runing on n95? | 22:19 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, it aint a single-person executive position. | 22:19 |
| pupnik_ | i think 330mhz omap2420 | 22:19 |
| MNZ | army's fine with the dude, so are a lot of important (read: rich) people because it works perfectly for them | 22:19 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, I wont stand again, so hopefully that satisfies you. | 22:19 |
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| MNZ | with enough protester-bashing and you've got a very nicely balanced regime | 22:20 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: nope | 22:20 |
| jacekowski | GAN900: i don't have problem with that | 22:20 |
| jacekowski | GAN900: i just stated a fact that for "fair" election system it's done like that | 22:20 |
| jacekowski | but i don't believe that it's fair at all | 22:20 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD_bs4O1eFo N95 psx emulator with powervr SGX gpu acceleration | 22:21 |
| RST38h | MNZ: Then he will die peacefully, with his oldest son inheriting the presidency. | 22:21 |
| MNZ | RST38h, I hope you are not being sarcastic..... seriously | 22:21 |
| MNZ | because that's EXACTLY what's happening.... | 22:21 |
| RST38h | And so forth, until the next heir is degenerative enough to dump it all down the sewer | 22:21 |
| RST38h | MNZ: I am not. See Azerbaijan. | 22:22 |
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| MNZ | he's been diagnosed with stomach cancer. Elections are coming up. He's son is going to win it, hands down. | 22:22 |
| MNZ | s/He's/His | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG | testing mkisofs and woodim | 22:23 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: Looks nice ... | 22:23 |
| rainbird | does anyone know of some altenative desktop for maemo? | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | (writing CDs/DVDs with the N900) | 22:23 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: why not cdrecord? ;) | 22:23 |
| daleglass | MohammadAG: how are you planning to do that, btw? | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | woodim is newer apparently :) | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | http://packages.debian.org/sid/cdrecord | 22:24 |
| h4waii | daleglass - USB mounted CDRW. | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, it was dumped/transitioned ^ | 22:24 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: it's a fork -- there's some years old flamewar around cdrkit vs cdrecord | 22:24 |
| h4waii | cdrecord is better | 22:24 |
| javispedro | I agree, specially later versions | 22:25 |
| daleglass | h4waii: oh, somebody made usb host mode work? | 22:25 |
| pupnik_ | qwerty12: http://fukung.net/v/32024/0920230aefe0942433d46a92d8e3eede.jpg <<< | 22:25 |
| h4waii | daleglass talk to MohammadAG about that :P | 22:25 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, OK, so maemo.org's system isn't fair. | 22:25 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, propose a referendum then. | 22:25 |
| GAN900 | Ah, nevermind. | 22:26 |
| RevdKathy | Do you have a son to inherit your post, GAN900? | 22:26 |
| GAN900 | RevdKathy, god no. | 22:26 |
| MohammadAG | I only got sarahn's patches working properly | 22:26 |
| MohammadAG | took me a whole summer and a bit | 22:26 |
| RevdKathy | Not that yo know of, anyway. :p | 22:26 |
| GAN900 | RevdKathy, got a cousin, though. :P | 22:26 |
| jacekowski | referendums are not fair | 22:26 |
| RevdKathy | Cousin, nephew... something like that wil do | 22:26 |
| * GAN900 shudders. | 22:26 | |
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| GAN900 | I move we elect RevdKathy dictator for life. | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | because referendum cause changes of people that steal from you | 22:27 |
| * RevdKathy imagines lots of tiny infants with GAN900's beard. | 22:27 | |
| MohammadAG | so, where's cdrecord's source? | 22:27 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: for a quick test, don't waste more time :) | 22:27 |
| pupnik_ | javispedro: maybe we can get psx running on n810 :D | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | if these people don't change, there is only so much somebody can steal | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | and at some point they wouldn't be able to steal more | 22:28 |
| h4waii | MohammadAG, freshmeat? | 22:28 |
| h4waii | http://freshmeat.net/projects/cdrecord/ | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | err? | 22:28 |
| h4waii | err? | 22:28 |
| * MohammadAG stabs perverted part of his mind | 22:29 | |
| b-man` | lol | 22:29 |
| h4waii | Haha. | 22:29 |
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| javispedro | pupnik_: hope to see source soon. it will also help smoku (if he hasn't left m.o yet) as he was also trying pvr-accelerated psx gfx | 22:29 |
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| javispedro | pupnik_: on the n810 pvr is not very stable unfortunately :( | 22:29 |
| pupnik_ | oh well | 22:30 |
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| RST38h | javispedro,pupnik: I actually did an OpenGLES1 driver for pcsx | 22:31 |
| pupnik_ | o_0 | 22:32 |
| pupnik_ | -_- | 22:32 |
| pupnik_ | >_< | 22:32 |
| nox- | moin | 22:32 |
| javispedro | oh, I remember reading you started | 22:32 |
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| nox- | hey pupnik_ have you tried evopedia yet? (or anyone else...) | 22:34 |
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| javispedro | oh, moin means hello >_< | 22:34 |
| nox- | for me it always complains it cant find the metadata file even tho the filemanager and ls see it... | 22:35 |
| nox- | javispedro, yeah :) | 22:35 |
| RST38h | javispedro: It is actually not as fast as one would tink it would be | 22:36 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I can see that. | 22:36 |
| RST38h | javispedro: mainly because PSX hw does not map to opengles optimally | 22:36 |
| RST38h | javispedro: PSX has a persistent 1024x1024 buffer where itboth renders video *and* takes textures from | 22:36 |
| javispedro | god | 22:37 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Your plain vanilla OpenGLES1 has no such buffer. | 22:37 |
| javispedro | on n900 your only hope is putting that on plain ram | 22:37 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Well your N900 has a 5MB dedicated video buffer afaik | 22:37 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: So, THAT is not a problem. OpenGLES1 not supporting such a scheme IS a problem. | 22:38 |
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| javispedro | es1 does support it but will force to pause the sgx while reading from it | 22:39 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Second problem is that OpenGLES1 textures have to be loaded into the GPU before they can be used | 22:39 |
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| javispedro | so performance goes down the toilet | 22:39 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I did implement a texture cache but even then the performance has been low | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | ok so... | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | how do I make this damn image | 22:40 |
| RST38h | gles1 native texture format is different from psx format so you have to convert, using cpu | 22:40 |
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| javispedro | I need to read about psx to follow; the n900 sgx does read a lot of textures supposedly "natively" (i don't know if drivers converts them or not) | 22:41 |
| pupnik_ | http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5903/1281685964192.jpg <<< this is RST38h | 22:41 |
| pupnik_ | lol | 22:42 |
| nox- | haha | 22:42 |
| nox- | btw RST38h is you nick a z80 reference? | 22:42 |
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| javispedro | well, leaving for food. bbs. | 22:43 |
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| villager | RST38h: shouldn't you look into opengles2 then? I think the n900 hardware is natively gles2, I think the gles1 stuff is emulated on top of gles2... | 22:48 |
| MohammadAG | burning CD using N900 - working fine :D | 22:50 |
| CoToHaX | lol | 22:50 |
| pupnik_ | MohammadAG: really? what is supplying power to the cd? | 22:52 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: haha it's ridiculously awesome | 22:52 |
| kerio | write a UI that lets you pick songs from the library | 22:53 |
| nox- | wow MohammadAG, using usb host mode? | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=826203&postcount=101 | 22:53 |
| wmarone | MohammadAG: impressive :D | 22:53 |
| kerio | nox-: no, using the flash | 22:53 |
| kerio | you have to spin the disc over the camera hole with your hands | 22:54 |
| MohammadAG | lmfao | 22:54 |
| nox- | rofl | 22:54 |
| pupnik_ | hmm, cellphone with external cd-rw | 22:56 |
| nox- | haha | 22:56 |
| pupnik_ | motor spindle and actuator along the back, set the device face-down on the table and pop on the cd | 22:56 |
| MohammadAG | DVD-RW* | 22:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer is frowning about everybody jumping to make <bizarre_device> working on N900 via USB, while that's really the boring part and should work just like on every other USB enabled host - while the real issue which is "make *hostmode* reliable and reproducable for everyone" just seems to fall off at far end of table | 22:57 | |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: your real issue is not newsworthy | 22:59 |
| kerio | ;) | 22:59 |
| kerio | hmm, apparently they ported psgroove to the ps3 controller | 23:01 |
| kerio | i wanna see how sony's going to block that | 23:01 |
| h4waii | Quite easily. | 23:01 |
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| h4waii | They'll fix the code execution issue. | 23:02 |
| johnx | kerio, ahahahaha! that's awesome in every way | 23:02 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, but that's boring. | 23:03 |
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| johnx | DocScrutinizer, a lot of people who have it working reliably for *themselves* are happy enough to move on to what they see as 'unsolved' problems | 23:04 |
| kerio | for various value of reliably | 23:04 |
| kerio | *values | 23:04 |
| johnx | it's a hacker mentality, to solve the 'thought' portion of the problem, and leave the 'implementation' part up to others | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: *nobody* has it working reliably. Believe me, it simply can not work reliably | 23:05 |
| johnx | reliable enough *for their own purposes* I should have said | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | they will notice soon enough | 23:05 |
| johnx | great. then your problem will solve itself *shrugs* | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's about critical timing and electrical properties of the particular device | 23:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | take device out to the sun, or install another process changing the timing of the whole thing, and :-S | 23:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but meh, I knew it'll be like this, when we pondered about publishing a debug test kernel with a however rudimentary UI that allows non-devels to "use" it | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I dare to have a glance to my crystal ball and tell the future: hostmode development will stall, while tmo gets spammed by 10^5 tips about how to make it work, which all are same nonsense | 23:11 |
| MohammadAG | liked it wasn't stalled already mate | 23:12 |
| MohammadAG | we were in a situation like noepwn's | 23:12 |
| h4waii | LOL. Hardly. | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: uhuh | 23:12 |
| MohammadAG | no development, all stuff was closed in one channel | 23:12 |
| h4waii | We're working on fixing that. | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: wasn't that you who advocated the loudest to close the hostmode thread on tmo? | 23:13 |
| h4waii | USB Host Mode wasn't private. | 23:13 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yes, I thought we'd progress | 23:13 |
| MohammadAG | but three (or 4?) months passed with no progress, at all | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: now you're complaining about some 'closedness' of a garage project | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: that makes no sense | 23:14 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not complaining about anything | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 23:14 |
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| johnx | strangely, I'm actually pretty excited about the Qt-WRT stuff as well :) | 23:19 |
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| CoToHaX | so, how to enable changelog on package description? ) | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | CoToHaX: what you're talking about? | 23:33 |
| CoToHaX | for example: http://maemo.org/packages/view/qcpufreq/ | 23:34 |
| CoToHaX | contains changelog :) | 23:34 |
| CoToHaX | my packages don't :) | 23:35 |
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| h4waii | hm. Somebody broke something in dpkg status | 23:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | CoToHaX: you got the proper changelog file in your package? | 23:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | CoToHaX: I have a file /scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/starhash-enabler/debian/changelog and it has exactly same content that's showing up on http://maemo.org/packages/view/starhash-enabler/ changes section. I haven't enabled anything | 23:42 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-24/sony-ericsson-is-planning-no-new-symbian-products.html - heh | 23:43 |
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| h4waii | What the hell is osso-applet-memory? | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | CoToHaX: anyway in /scratchbox/users/jr/home/jr/starhash-enabler/debian/control there's a XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description: section that's holding the display in HAM when you update the pkg | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's unrelated to changelog on garage website | 23:46 |
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| h4waii | dpkg is writing bad information to /var/lib/dpkg/status | 23:52 |
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| MNZ | http://cobaia.net/2010/09/top-funny-source-code-comments/ <-- hahahahaha! | 23:56 |
| b-man` | :) | 23:57 |
| b-man` | "never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down" xD | 23:59 |
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