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| joga | ah, now I got the display back | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| joga | it still says extracting though, I guess it'll take its time, it's been installing for 50minutes or so now | 00:02 |
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| joga | weird though that I have a 1-hour lock delay and now it's locked.. | 00:03 |
| joga | ah well, now it's done :) it was just busy then | 00:04 |
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| joga | it shows the call I made to it to have happened at 00:01 while I actually made that at 23:44 :) | 00:06 |
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| ppriyank | hi all | 00:07 |
| ppriyank | got a quick question regarding my n900! | 00:07 |
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| ppriyank | can anyone hlep? | 00:07 |
| joga | just ask | 00:07 |
| ppriyank | i was readin the fm transmitter MOD thread over at talk.maemo.org | 00:07 |
| ppriyank | and it says that i can change the frequency to 87.5 | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | theoritically you can, practically (atm) you can't | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | theoretically* | 00:08 |
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| ppriyank | i followed all the steps, and when i try to change the frequency to 87.7 (that's the lowest on my 2003 corolla), i can't, the lowest is still 88.1 | 00:08 |
| MohammadAG | umm sec | 00:09 |
| ppriyank | ok thanks! | 00:09 |
| luke-jr | I think my battery problem is just Nokia's BME crap malfunctioning -.- | 00:09 |
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| ppriyank | anyone else try to mod the fm-transmitter on their n900? | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | Remaining standby time to battery low (mins): 14964 | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | why does BME force a shutdown when it has so much time?? | 00:11 |
| ppriyank | as it is right now, its really bad audio output (even with the boost enabled at 118) | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | Instantaneous battery voltage (mV): 3948 | 00:11 |
| ppriyank | (i'm in new york, and most of the stations are occupid), hence i'm trying to enable 87.5+ frequencies, so i can use it at lower frequency for better audio quality (without static) | 00:12 |
| pupnik | suggest modding the car to accept headphone jack | 00:12 |
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| ppriyank | i thought about that, but my car is pretty old, and don't wanna spend more money on for a new stereo | 00:13 |
| ppriyank | (i'm a broke ass studen) | 00:13 |
| ppriyank | haha | 00:13 |
| phellarv | Ha - My N900@900 did not like smartreflex | 00:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | ppriyank: proctologist? | 00:15 |
| pupnik | i wish hilighting text in browser worked | 00:15 |
| JZA | hi i got an issue with my n900 | 00:15 |
| JZA | after update the cammera app is not working | 00:15 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: with an old battery, it's probably actually real instantaneous low | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | JZA: have you fiddled with the filesystem? | 00:16 |
| JZA | it crashes as soon as i start it | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: it does? | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: select the arrow thingy | 00:16 |
| pupnik | yeah then i drag opver text and the webpage moves | 00:16 |
| ppriyank | SpeedEvil: no a chiropractor (still got few months before i graduate) | 00:16 |
| JZA | speedevil: well yes i free up the rootfs | 00:16 |
| pupnik | the arrow is active and tapped with red stripe | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | JZA: camera does not work with non-vfat mydocs - if that's what you did | 00:17 |
| JZA | following the tutorial | 00:17 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: hm? | 00:17 |
| JZA | ok no i didnt change the partition filesystme | 00:17 |
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| ShadowJK | The battery meter in N8x0 doesn't cope with old batteries | 00:18 |
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| VladNistor | i tried freed up space on the rootfs today by moving microb-engine to /opt and symlinked... now even after i moved it back it doesn't start :) | 00:18 |
| VladNistor | *freeing | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: Instantaneous battery voltage (mV): 3948 | 00:18 |
| ppriyank | ok thanks for all the input. i guess nobody besides me tried to mod the fm transmitter on their N900 :( | 00:18 |
| VladNistor | would i be able to apt-get remove (with whatever it reases with that) and then install it back? | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | 3847* | 00:18 |
| ppriyank | i guess i'll just wait for somebody to respond on the thread | 00:19 |
| ppriyank | thanks for all the help though :) | 00:19 |
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| ShadowJK | luke-jr, but if it really only lasts 15 minutes I'm surprised bme doesn't abort() trying to charge it :) | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: it lasts 0 seconds now | 00:19 |
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| ShadowJK | oh, shuts down when you remove charger? | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | yes | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | When on charge and battery full condition is reached, BME resets its capacity counter to that of a fully charged fresh battery, and its time estimates are based on that | 00:20 |
| ShadowJK | so they're only ever vaguely relevant for a brand new battery :) | 00:21 |
| JZA | how can i check the partitions again i got mpartition but cant remember the flags | 00:21 |
| VladNistor | what i mean is weather the microb is in the nokia repositories to be able to reinstall it, and weather you guyz know :) | 00:21 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, is it on charger now? | 00:22 |
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| * luke-jr plugs it in | 00:22 | |
| luke-jr | yes | 00:22 |
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| ShadowJK | SW PWM, open switch voltage, closed switch voltage | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | would <1s shorts hurt it? | 00:23 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | :( | 00:23 |
| luke-jr | think Nokia wants to replace my battery because they uh "forced" me to damage it? <.< | 00:24 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 00:24 |
| Stskeeps | you probably voided your warranty with your public statement of hacking the serial ports | 00:24 |
| luke-jr | by making the serial totally inaccessible | 00:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:24 |
| ShadowJK | The original battery that came with my N810 is unusable :) | 00:24 |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: can't void your warranty unless you actually damage it <.< | 00:25 |
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| luke-jr | which I did, but not by hacking the serial ports | 00:25 |
| ShadowJK | the battery has only 6months warranty anyway | 00:25 |
| luke-jr | heh | 00:25 |
| luke-jr | so what battery do I want to get? | 00:25 |
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| luke-jr | is there one that lasts longer and works in devices other than N810? <.< | 00:25 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 00:26 |
| ShadowJK | Any battery would last longer than your current, I think :) | 00:26 |
| luke-jr | I mean longer than default | 00:26 |
| ShadowJK | nah | 00:26 |
| ShadowJK | Well there's the mugen double-thickness one :) | 00:27 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: does it fit sanely? | 00:28 |
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| ShadowJK | it comes with a new plastic back cover | 00:29 |
| ShadowJK | that makes the N810 thicker on the part covered by the battery cover | 00:29 |
| luke-jr | so like the C760 | 00:29 |
| luke-jr | wonder why those don't just use the entire surface for battery | 00:29 |
| luke-jr | rather than the tiny rect used by the normal one | 00:30 |
| ShadowJK | adds cost and complexity | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | and while it's reasonably safe to parallel two identical cells, it's absolutely nogo for different make or brand cells | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and playdo cells to fit the formfactor of a small brick and a large brick back to back, that's yet to invent | 00:35 |
| Tu13es | hmm | 00:35 |
| Tu13es | i just found my n800 and gf's n770 | 00:35 |
| Tu13es | i haven't used either of them in about two years | 00:35 |
| Tu13es | anything new that i can do wit hthem or should i toss em back in the closet? | 00:36 |
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| luke-jr | any idea how this full-SD upgrade works? | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Tu13es: ebay! | 00:37 |
| Tu13es | yeah, i should get around to that | 00:37 |
| Tu13es | i can't run anything newer than os2008 right? | 00:37 |
| Stskeeps | some people are starting work on a n8x0 hardware adaptation for meego | 00:38 |
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| Tu13es | hmm | 00:39 |
| Tu13es | did Mer ever go anywhere? | 00:39 |
| Stskeeps | and the community ssu work is active | 00:40 |
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| fernando_ | so uh, say, would battery-status from http://nitapps.com/ work on an N900? | 00:42 |
| fernando_ | guessing not | 00:42 |
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| luke-jr | hmm | 00:44 |
| luke-jr | wonder if there's any way to use AAAs with N810? :P | 00:45 |
| brik | getting desperate? :P | 00:47 |
| luke-jr | well, I need to get AAs anyway | 00:47 |
| b-man17 | i wonder how many people are going to fry their devices http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39753&page=75 people seem to be trying more and more to push their N900's clock speed past 1Ghz LOL | 00:47 |
| fernando_ | http://craftyguy.net/pub/mhz.png hahaha | 00:48 |
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| b-man17 | LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL xDDDDDDDD | 00:49 |
| derf | lcuk: You mean like http://www.usbfever.com/index_eproduct_view.php?products_id=302 ? | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | $3.50 a good price for BP-4L new? | 00:50 |
| b-man17 | "They propably can just sell the los alamos and buy your phone...." LOL | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, afaiui there's a flat ribbon cable going to a fullsize SD slot that gets screwed onto the device next to the battery, and then you either need his new battery cover so that the stuff fits, or the mugen battery cover | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, yes | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, genuine nokias are about $20-$35 :P | 00:50 |
| derf | Err, I meant that for luke-jr, not lcuk. | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: ah, so the ribbon goes into the miniSD port? | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 00:51 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: you mean this might be counterfeit? :| | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, lol | 00:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | b-man17, I bet there'll be a slew of complaints in about 6 months. | 00:51 |
| b-man17 | indeed xD | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, the question is whether it's worth it :) | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | and if you can still buy N900 in 6-18 months of if all you can get is stupid capacitive by then :( | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, :((( | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, that makes me sad everytime I think about it. | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't believe how stupid Nokia is | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, I can, but I can't believe I'll have to end my relationship with their products after 10 years. | 00:52 |
| b-man17 | isn't Nokia investigating captive-resistive? | 00:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | b-man17, Stantum is multitouch resistive | 00:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | but they don't seem interested in actually using it in a product. | 00:53 |
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| b-man17 | hmm | 00:53 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | bah! | 00:54 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: PM? | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Man, makes me so sad. | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | 800x480 with capacitive is going to suck so much | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | basically means they're either going to be completely stupifying the Harmattan UI or it's just going to be unusable. | 00:54 |
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| luke-jr | ShadowJK: that's seriously a counterfeit? | 00:55 |
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| b-man17 | GeneralAntilles: it's a good thing we have MeeGo ;) | 00:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | b-man17, meh. | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | b-man17, MeeGo's not going to be as big of an answer as you think. | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It doesn't get you any of Nokia's differentiation crap | 00:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which, despite being crap, actually makes for a usable experience. | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | a year from now, apple will make something new and all companies will switch to it, of course, it will be crap but hey it's apple | 00:57 |
| b-man17 | true | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | not going to start apple-nokia wars, ignore my statement | 00:58 |
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| * b-man17 wants to work for Google xD | 00:58 | |
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| nobody | hello | 00:59 |
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| b-man17 | hello, matokizo | 01:00 |
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| wazd | OMG :D | 01:00 |
| wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhblfJxNrp0 | 01:01 |
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| wazd | 0:25 - russian guy pwnz iPad dramatically :D | 01:02 |
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| luke-jr | can counterfeit batteries damage my N810? :| | 01:04 |
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| massoud | nobody is sharing 3g connexion from n900 to usb connected laptop ? | 01:05 |
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| MohammadAG_ | .query ppriyank_ | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG_ | :/ | 01:11 |
| ppriyank_ | yes? | 01:11 |
| ppriyank_ | no luck? | 01:11 |
| Treibholz | massoud: works fine via bluetooth | 01:11 |
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| massoud | Treibholz: how ? | 01:12 |
| massoud | with a linux laptop ? | 01:12 |
| Treibholz | massoud: you need to install the profile | 01:12 |
| Treibholz | apt-cache search tethering | 01:13 |
| Treibholz | there you'l find it | 01:13 |
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| MohammadAG_ | ~ping | 01:14 |
| infobot | ~pong | 01:14 |
| Treibholz | and then you may use it just like any other phone as umts modem | 01:14 |
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| massoud | Treibholz: and for usb how would you do ? | 01:16 |
| lcuk | massoud, didnt i already tell you this was entirely possible earlier? which os are you struggling with on your laptop? | 01:17 |
| Treibholz | massoud: don't know... | 01:18 |
| massoud | lcuk : i am missing sthing cause my n900 doesn t appears like a modem for my debian off the shelf | 01:19 |
| massoud | sorry it s not out of the box working | 01:20 |
| massoud | and iptables doesn t support nat with maemo 5 | 01:20 |
| lcuk | ok, from the device point of view, lets assume that just switching it to pc suite mode sets up that side of it | 01:21 |
| lcuk | that means that the ubuntu connection manager does all the work | 01:21 |
| lcuk | so thats the bit you are missing on your debian | 01:21 |
| lcuk | is there any way i can print this information for you (or try to) whilst i keep a connection | 01:22 |
| lcuk | to try and diagnose what you need to do in debian? | 01:22 |
| massoud | which ubuntu package is handling that connexion ? | 01:22 |
| lcuk | i dunno, it comes up in the normal connection applet when i plug in device | 01:22 |
| lcuk | ill grab phone now, just a min | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 01:23 |
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| V13 | j #maemo-devel | 01:23 |
| V13 | oops | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | before I buy another battery, maybe I should consider discarding the N810 | 01:23 |
| luke-jr | since the AC adapter seems to bend fairly easy | 01:23 |
| V13 | is PR1.2 out | 01:25 |
| * V13 ducks | 01:25 | |
| luke-jr | they skipped to PR1.3 | 01:25 |
| luke-jr | it was released ~40 mins ago | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~ping | 01:25 |
| infobot | ~pong | 01:25 |
| luke-jr | the dl is quite bogged down tho | 01:25 |
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| luke-jr | probably won't be able to get it for a while realisticly | 01:25 |
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| anotnac | i've come to the conclusion that if DR Who was real he would use a N900 | 01:27 |
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| BCMM | because of generally doing everything? | 01:29 |
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| V13 | anotnac: that's deep thought. on drugs? :-P | 01:29 |
| BCMM | i do get the feeling that in fiction it would tend to look like a convenient plot device | 01:29 |
| BCMM | i mean, why exactly can it control car radios? | 01:30 |
| V13 | why not ? | 01:30 |
| anotnac | kinda, i was watching DR Who on iplayer via n900 whilst on drugs when it hit me | 01:30 |
| V13 | :P | 01:30 |
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| trumee | is there any dictionary for N900? | 01:31 |
| haltdef | n900 choked on iplayer for me | 01:31 |
| trumee | rather i need a spellcheck in email and browser | 01:31 |
| haltdef | might have been the HD version, didn't try that hard :P | 01:32 |
| anotnac | i was using bigscreen version made for wii i believe | 01:32 |
| lcuk | ok massoud, its in a section called mobile broadband on the profiles list, and its on usb0 | 01:32 |
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| BCMM | does it have a BBC-approved DRMed iplayer, or does one use get_iplayer? | 01:35 |
| anotnac | i was streaming using this link http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/bigscreen/ | 01:36 |
| V13 | ffs... the builder imported an older version of my package... now I'll have to wait half an hour... this is the worst waiting thing in packaging. | 01:40 |
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| lcuk | v13 :) | 01:42 |
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| lcuk | i guess this is how really old developers used to feel running mainframes | 01:42 |
| lcuk | commiting batch jobs and waiting for their app to run | 01:43 |
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| V13 | well... yes... | 01:43 |
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| lcuk | waiting whilst the pile of cards was processed and you hope you ordered them correctly :p | 01:43 |
| V13 | except that I *must* be there/online to press "promote package" when this thing happens... if I could schedule it then it would be ok. | 01:43 |
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| lcuk | i have been in your sitatuation before now | 01:44 |
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| V13 | those 30 minutes last about 5 hours... | 01:44 |
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| lcuk | smetimes longer if theres other human intervention along the way | 01:46 |
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| V13 | in the meantime, you're all invited to download tecnoballz. the imported version (0.92-3) is exactly the same as the not-yet-imported versions (0.92-4). The latter only has a better description and as soon as it is imported I'll promote it to extras-testing. | 01:52 |
| V13 | The link is here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/tecnoballz/0.92-3/ | 01:52 |
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| anotnac | nice i will try it out i like arknoid type games | 01:56 |
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| V13 | it's arcanoid on steroids.. | 01:58 |
| anotnac | just installed gonna give it a spin | 01:59 |
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| anotnac | wow gameplay is fast smashing and dropping items | 02:00 |
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| V13 | yes.. | 02:01 |
| anotnac | wow what was them circle things i collected shooting millions of balls and demolished everything] | 02:02 |
| V13 | hehehe :) | 02:02 |
| V13 | it does it some times :) | 02:02 |
| V13 | as i said... arcanoid on steroids :) | 02:02 |
| V13 | note: it is not my creation. i just packaged it for n900. | 02:03 |
| V13 | it seems to be an old game. very nice though! | 02:03 |
| anotnac | more like arcanoid on acid i'd say | 02:04 |
| anotnac | lol | 02:04 |
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| anotnac | nice game will kill some time with that | 02:10 |
| V13 | wait until you reach level 5 :) | 02:10 |
| anotnac | i got to 4 or 5 and died lol | 02:11 |
| anotnac | i'm addicted to taking my n900 to the bathrooom with me i forget why i'm there and sit there an hour playing games or doing customisation mods lol | 02:12 |
| anotnac | this will be a game for there too lol | 02:12 |
| jacekowski | i take my laptop and n900 with me | 02:12 |
| V13 | lol.. this is really funny | 02:13 |
| anotnac | lol | 02:13 |
| lcuk | im gonna install a twitter client on my toilet | 02:13 |
| V13 | it sounds ridiculous... | 02:13 |
| V13 | but the worst thing is that i do it too :) | 02:13 |
| lcuk | "user sat down, 15stone 4oz" | 02:13 |
| jacekowski | V13: it's modern version of newspaper | 02:13 |
| V13 | :))) | 02:13 |
| lcuk | "user standing, 14stone 8oz" | 02:13 |
| V13 | lcuk: nailed it :) | 02:13 |
| anotnac | omg that would make the press lcuk | 02:13 |
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| lcuk | nahhh, its a crap story | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: livestrong.com/myplate - has a RSS feed | 02:14 |
| anotnac | the sun will run with it then | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | you can tweet what you've eaten | 02:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 02:14 |
| lcuk | maefoods or maemoeats os something group on flickr i think | 02:15 |
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| anotnac | maegirls integration lol | 02:16 |
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| anotnac | is there a tmo games section moderator here | 02:19 |
| V13 | ok.. tecnoballz is in extras-testing. | 02:19 |
| anotnac | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49189 | 02:20 |
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| anotnac | is that a custom levels he posted or [paid pack | 02:21 |
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| V13 | downloaded it... it seems to be a package for the iphone | 02:25 |
| V13 | (it's a zip) | 02:25 |
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| microlith | hmm | 02:27 |
| microlith | I'm guessing tecnoballz is optified? | 02:27 |
| V13 | yes | 02:27 |
| microlith | cool | 02:28 |
| * microlith gets | 02:28 | |
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| V13 | well.. it installs a couple of files in / but that's the icon and the desktop file.. less than 10Kbytes | 02:29 |
| microlith | sure | 02:29 |
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| nidO | anotnac: it's the custom levelpack | 02:29 |
| V13 | nid0 I don't think so. | 02:30 |
| anotnac | why is it a IPA file itunes wants to open it and it trys to over write my ipod version | 02:31 |
| nidO | ah well god knows, looked like the custom maps but could be a pirate copy of the proper ones | 02:32 |
| V13 | nid0 it seems to be the iphone app. | 02:33 |
| nidO | is anyone/has anyone given brain party in -testing a test yet? | 02:33 |
| V13 | xm.. is it in testing ? | 02:33 |
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| alicemirror | Hi to all! New in this room :) | 02:34 |
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| anotnac | i'm testing it one of the games crashes and freezes up phone, its the game with jewels what slide in lines, it was only in devel yesterday | 02:35 |
| lcuk | alicemirror, people are situated in multiple channels, its just those you started with are more specific | 02:35 |
| alicemirror | ok, but in effect I'm working in this development phase in UI (on N900 platform) Do you think that #maemo-ui is not appropriate ? | 02:36 |
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| lcuk | i dunno | 02:37 |
| lcuk | no1 knows what you are doing | 02:38 |
| lcuk | just thought you might get more response if you talk in general first | 02:38 |
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| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, 4179mV @ 95mA | 02:39 |
| ShadowJK | (charging mugen) | 02:39 |
| alicemirror | I think it's right. In effect I started also in these specific channels to see what are the discussion arguments. | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's sane, and should eventually trip Ilim-chend | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | (at least if you 'suspend' the phone - dark screen, no powerhogs) | 02:41 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 02:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | Wow. GPS is a hog. | 02:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | 100mA | 02:42 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not doing proper sampling at the moment, but based on one sample per minute, I'm at 1500mAh right now :) | 02:42 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, log window log file off, location-test-gui? | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | +100mA that is | 02:43 |
| ShadowJK | 1500mAh, 4181mV @ 90mA... kinda far from the 2400mAh on the label ;p | 02:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: fix? | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | oops - yes, that's with a fix | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: until fix it runs 1/2 a mio corellators, after fix only some 10 | 02:45 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ShadowJK: you are using mugen battery, isn't it? Is it true that with this battery you can't use an MicroSD card? | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | so THAT's damn scary | 02:45 |
| ShadowJK | ptl_demands_PR12, yes | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | however - it was an indoors fix - maybe it's lighter outside | 02:46 |
| ShadowJK | ptl_demands_PR12, the battery is physically much bigger, it requires a new battery cover. The current battery cover is missing the required things to make N900 detect that the battery cover is installed, and it refuses to let you use MicroSD card | 02:46 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ShadowJK: :/ that's really bad, because my main use for such a big battery would be to experiment with stuff such as Mer and Meego. | 02:46 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ShadowJK: only because of that stupid little magnet? | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | muhahahagen | 02:47 |
| ShadowJK | ptl_demands_PR12, Mugen has said they're working on a new battery cover to fix these issues. They've said that customers will get the new cover when it's ready. | 02:47 |
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| ShadowJK | I also emailed them about the thermistor vs resistor issue, and the CSR said he was forwarding my email to their engineers and that he'd update me next week | 02:47 |
| haltdef | oh dear | 02:48 |
| haltdef | I was eying up that battery | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: (thermistor) see my post to tmo | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, bugtrac | 02:49 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, yes well I checked 4 generations of nokia batteries and they all had a resistor | 02:49 |
| ShadowJK | and mugen got it right with their previous N800 battery | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, but it doesn't make any difference | 02:49 |
| * ptl_demands_PR12 doesn't know this thermistor vs resistor issue | 02:49 | |
| w00t_ | hmm. | 02:50 |
| w00t_ | anyone here had problems with Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation? | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl_demands_PR12: somebody assumed the third contact on battery is to signal bat capacity. This assumption was out of thin air and obviously is wrong | 02:50 |
| w00t_ | problems being "it doesn't work" | 02:50 |
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| * GeneralAntilles despises blogs that watermark images that aren't their own. | 02:51 | |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, well imo it's kinda silly to say "not standardized" or something like that, I take it as a given that Nokia does things to make life hard for third party battery manufacturers :-) | 02:51 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: hmm | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: LOL | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: then for sure they'd use something sophisticated like those printer-cartrige manufs do | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | rather than a silly resistor | 02:52 |
| ShadowJK | But all the leaked nokia service manuals I've seen have called third pin "Battery Size Indicator".. and all the batteries I currently have (sorry, threw out the nimh stuff a few years ago) behave like third pin is a simple resistor, bigger resistors for bigger batteries | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: you're right. In aquisition mode - it uses _200_mA! | 02:53 |
| ShadowJK | And Mugen has used resistors for their previous batteries before, so I dunno wtf happened :) | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I wonder how much cheaper this was than a SiRF or whatever than manages with 20. | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a simple resistor nowadays, to stay compatible with older thermistor design. And yes, nokia used the size of this resistor sometimes to distinguish TYPES of battery, where e.g both NiCad and LiIon were available for same bat formfactor | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway resistor value to type of battery is a lookup table, not an algorithm | 02:55 |
| ShadowJK | yes, I suspect it's something like resistance = type * constant + size * constant | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: WTF!?!! | 02:56 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, FWIW, I saw far smaller power consumption than you've seen when I tested the gps | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly _not_ afaik | 02:56 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I guess I should find some resistors and connect them to BSI and reboot my N8x0 a few times to see how battery.design capacity as reported by BME changes? :-) | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | see BL-5C which comes in 3..4 different flavours from some 750..1200. All have same resistor afaik | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: It may be it's in poor signal conditions. It's barely getting a signal - 50m error - indoors | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should test the thermistor value of mugen or any older nokia bat with thermistor, over the range from -15C to +65C | 02:58 |
| ShadowJK | I rarely see 50m :) | 02:58 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, the mugen battery's resistance value changed about 30kOhm over a 10C temperature range | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I will try outside tomorrow - but it's cold. | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd be amazed and learn there's no room to code designed capacity PLUS temp the way you suggested | 02:59 |
| ShadowJK | the nokia batteries measured +- 1 digit on my DMM within that 10C range | 02:59 |
| ShadowJK | I am suggesting that there's no temperature coding, at all. | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: not on modern cells. See my comment on bugtrac | 03:00 |
| ShadowJK | I think they just dropped the temperature coding and changed it into size-only coding at some point | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | they *do* *no* size coding | 03:02 |
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| ShadowJK | battery.reporting.design = 398 | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | they do chemistry type coding, if anything at all | 03:02 |
| ShadowJK | This value, 398mAh, changes depending on the temperature of my N900 when I boot it with the mugen battery :-) | 03:02 |
| ShadowJK | The battery meter gets progressively suckier the hotter my N900 is when I boot it with mugen | 03:03 |
| RobbieAB | Surely once they have the chemistry, everything else can be corrected in software enough to keep the system safe? | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, dunno what they specified for N900 bat, anyway they do different on every battery they build | 03:03 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, could be | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: even that's no wonder at all (getting worse the warmer the cell). Voltage vs charge curve changes with temperature, that's a chemistry effect | 03:05 |
| ShadowJK | well the meter performs no better after battery has cooled down (with no reboot in between) :) | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | BME does some very strange heuristics it seems | 03:06 |
| ShadowJK | Which leads me to think that the resistance is measured on boot, and used as reference value for the capacity of a full battery | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd need to test with different fixed R values | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | to know for sure | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | always boot with same bat voltage | 03:07 |
| ShadowJK | yeah, I agree | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | but different R | 03:07 |
| ShadowJK | FWIW, I booted N810 with BSI unconnected, and it said design capacity 0 and refused to charge :P | 03:07 |
| RobbieAB | Where do I get hold of the config file for the default N900 kernel? I ran "apt-get source kernel" and it's not there | 03:08 |
| ShadowJK | isn't there a arch/arm/defconfig/*RX51* or something? | 03:09 |
| ShadowJK | RX-51 maybe | 03:09 |
| RobbieAB | Ah. Thanks. :) | 03:09 |
| RobbieAB | I'm not used to working with crossdev, but am used to playing with normal kernel sources... | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | this is still within "normal" parameters ;) | 03:10 |
| RobbieAB | Not when you are used to gentoo :p | 03:10 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: you checked schematics? isn't it strange what they do to BSI, and then it ends at GAZOO... | 03:11 |
| RobbieAB | Which drops a .config (or generates a default one)... Anyway, I want to tweak a little (add modules which should be there!) | 03:11 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, iirc it's connected to ADC on Gaia /and/ something on Gazoo.. | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | from other modems I know they refuse to ramp up to full power with battery too cold or too hot | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | except for 911 | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | as you can ruin the cell with too high current (in/out) when not inside safe temp range | 03:13 |
| ShadowJK | From the way bme behaves so differently from what b27200 is reporting, I had, before even discovering this thermistor vs resistor thing, suspected that Gazoo has its own charge monitoring stuff.. | 03:13 |
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| ShadowJK | N900 looks kinda like a dual-personality beast.. the openish OMAP on one side of the circuit board, and the closed nokia components on the other side.. | 03:14 |
| ptl_n900 | We hope the closed part will succumb to the pressure first. | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | While N8x0 looked more like a hybrid with mostly Nokia components and a TI SoC :P | 03:14 |
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| * DocScrutinizer thinks nokia implemented 3 or 4 different bat mgmt machines, so they can use the one that turns out to be the best/easiest/most convenient for them | 03:15 | |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, even the FTD output on N8x0 looks like 3 different engines :) | 03:15 |
| * MohammadAG_ wonders if the N900 would run compiz | 03:16 | |
| ShadowJK | After booting a warm N900 with mugen battery, and design capacity becoming ~300, the battery /bars/ looks sensible, but the battery reporting current mAh, and percantages are completely broken, staying at 100% until it drops to 0 | 03:17 |
| ShadowJK | maybe the battery.bars are based on voltage, with some heuristics making it "less likely" for the bars to increase without charger attached... | 03:17 |
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| ShadowJK | and the reporting mAh value driven by Gazoo trying to count charge with the assumption the battery is 300mAh.. | 03:18 |
| ShadowJK | (+ voltage feedback) | 03:18 |
| ShadowJK | bme's algorithm seems like someone spent years and years adding ad-hoc algorithms and tons of code to present some usable output to the user when the input values are almost random :-D | 03:21 |
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| w00t_ | to answer my own earlier question about Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation.. not actually working until PR1.2 | 03:22 |
| w00t_ | (how handy) | 03:22 |
| haltdef | :< | 03:22 |
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| ShadowJK | bq24150 seems felixble enough it could be made to work with A123 cells :) | 03:24 |
| ShadowJK | but bq27200 needs some guidance from software for that | 03:25 |
| ShadowJK | nevermind why you'd want to use A123 cells.. | 03:25 |
| adalal | i can't install stuff on the n900 anymore | 03:26 |
| adalal | i need the upgrade lol | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | Are you out of space on / ? | 03:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: cycle life | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: and being able to charge in 2 minutes. | 03:27 |
| w00t_ | very early days, still needs some UI work and a *lot* of speedup.. but: http://w00t.dereferenced.net/n900facebook.jpg | 03:27 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: ^ if you're interested too :) | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | what does the "update" button do that is different from "Check for new posts".. I don't have facebook, I'm facebook-illiterate | 03:28 |
| lcuk | w00t_, im interested from a technical perspective, but i dont have a facebook yet to test it with | 03:28 |
| w00t_ | ShadowJK: sets your status | 03:28 |
| ShadowJK | Oh, right | 03:29 |
| w00t_ | like mine there 'needs to go to bed soon' :P | 03:29 |
| ShadowJK | I was just asking because it looked like lots of space taken up by it :) | 03:29 |
| w00t_ | the UI really needs to be hit with a brick | 03:29 |
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| w00t_ | this is literally the first time it's run on an n900, all development was done on my desktop, so | 03:29 |
| ShadowJK | I'd put update and check for new shit into titlebar menu... but then I'd worry about the idiots^Wusers not knowing that titlebar menu exists | 03:30 |
| ShadowJK | oh, that's impressive then :) | 03:30 |
| w00t_ | update will probably stay where it is as that's a fairly common action | 03:30 |
| w00t_ | check for new posts will probably move | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: there's not much guidance you'd be able to do for bq25x00 | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | err bq27x00 | 03:30 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, DONE in command register :) | 03:31 |
| ShadowJK | iirc | 03:31 |
| RobbieAB | Ok... so the N900 CAN do packet forwarding on the default kernel... | 03:31 |
| C-S-B-N900 | RobbieAB: o rly? | 03:33 |
| C-S-B-N900 | Anything ive missed in the last couple of days? | 03:34 |
| RobbieAB | Well, the option is certainly in /proc | 03:34 |
| RobbieAB | However... NAT is a different matter. | 03:34 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 03:34 |
| C-S-B-N900 | which makes it useless. | 03:34 |
| haltdef | 200kbps out of 3 in the middle of exeter at 5pm .. is that normal for 3g providers or do 3 just suck? :P | 03:35 |
| ShadowJK | "ouf of 3"? | 03:35 |
| C-S-B-N900 | hey haltdef i was in exeter area this weekend. :) | 03:35 |
| RobbieAB | C-S-B-N900: It's one less module I need to add :p | 03:35 |
| haltdef | 3 being my provider | 03:35 |
| ShadowJK | 5pm is like rush hour for internet isn't it.. | 03:35 |
| haltdef | heh, where exactly? | 03:36 |
| C-S-B-N900 | RobbieAB: are you looking to implement a 3g ap? | 03:36 |
| RobbieAB | C-S-B-N900: Yes | 03:36 |
| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: dawlish | 03:36 |
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| haltdef | :o | 03:36 |
| haltdef | I live in dawlish | 03:36 |
| RobbieAB | C-S-B-N900: But to BT and not WiFi. | 03:37 |
| C-S-B-N900 | RobbieAB: whats wrong with dun? | 03:37 |
| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: 3g sucks in dawlish. | 03:37 |
| haltdef | 3g doesn't matter when you live there, got dsl :P | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | RobbieAB, there something wrong with the existing BT tethering? | 03:38 |
| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: im on O2, which iirc is what 3 fallover to. | 03:38 |
| w00t_ | for anyone wanting updates as I progress with this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49216 | 03:38 |
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| RobbieAB | C-S-B-N900: Can't have multiple computers using it at the same time? | 03:38 |
| haltdef | 3 have their own 3g network + sharing agreement with t-mob, use orange's 2g net | 03:38 |
| haltdef | switched from o2 for 2g a while back I believe | 03:38 |
| C-S-B-N900 | RobbieAB: does bt have the bandwidth for that: | 03:39 |
| RobbieAB | ShadowJK: the N900 doesn't do BT PAN Access Point. By default PAN is switched off, but is installed. | 03:39 |
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| ShadowJK | total bandwidth is going to depend on cell size, number of users, and amount of spectrum available (decided by regulator and size of cells)... | 03:39 |
| RobbieAB | C-S-B-N900: BT EDR should give 14Mbs, my 3G is 3Mbs | 03:39 |
| ShadowJK | Ah, I've only ever used BT DUN and direct USB tethering | 03:39 |
| ShadowJK | I've never seen more than 1Mbit/s on BT EDR | 03:40 |
| RobbieAB | Which is enough for getting email :p | 03:40 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | so haltdef, living in dawlish, that must make you 75? | 03:40 |
| haltdef | no, 19 :P | 03:40 |
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| haltdef | dad got a job in exeter a few months ago, I had no real choice but to follow from the midlands | 03:41 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: is it as boring and oap populated as it seems? | 03:41 |
| haltdef | not that I don't like it here | 03:41 |
| haltdef | yes! | 03:41 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | ipplepen is an awesome name btw. | 03:42 |
| haltdef | cockwood's my favourite | 03:42 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | so haltdef shame i didnt know you earlier, we could have had a linux/n900 meet up. | 03:44 |
| haltdef | honestly linux pisses me off :x | 03:45 |
| C-S-B-N900 | :O | 03:45 |
| haltdef | love it on the n900 but on desktop .. no thanks, tried it, happier on windows | 03:45 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | your choice. | 03:45 |
| C-S-B-N900 | a bad one, but yours. | 03:45 |
| C-S-B-N900 | :P | 03:45 |
| C-S-B-N900 | why does it piss you if i may? | 03:46 |
| haltdef | I do make an effort to give it another go every so often, but it's been a while | 03:46 |
| lcukn900 | w00t_, fsck internet dead | 03:46 |
| haltdef | effor tto make simple things work | 03:46 |
| ptl_n900 | if you try to use linux as windows it will piss you off because it's not windows. | 03:46 |
| w00t_ | lcukn900: :( | 03:46 |
| ptl_n900 | if you use linux as linux, it's a wonderful SO and does everything you want from it | 03:46 |
| C-S-B-N900 | like? i dont have trouble with anything day to day. | 03:46 |
| ptl_n900 | me too | 03:47 |
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| haltdef | I don't want to do any command line hackery to get my bluetooth mouse or earphones to work | 03:47 |
| ptl_n900 | and I use it at my job, at college and at home. Only. | 03:47 |
| ptl_n900 | So don't. | 03:47 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: i dont. | 03:47 |
| haltdef | that meant no bluetooth mouse or earphones for me last time I used it :p | 03:47 |
| lcukn900 | ptl_n900, i discount that. unubtu has awful bug if i use it normally | 03:47 |
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| ptl_n900 | but having the command line is good if everything else fails | 03:47 |
| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: just click the bluetooth icon | 03:48 |
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| ptl_n900 | and it is also awesome for automating things | 03:48 |
| RobbieAB | haltdef: Stop blaming the OS for Nokias decisions. They chose to disable the HID profile :p | 03:48 |
| haltdef | I'm not talking on the n900, happy with it there :p | 03:48 |
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| haltdef | really should keep my dislike of linux quiet in here, gonna get myself killed or something | 03:49 |
| RobbieAB | Than I'm surprised, as my experience with non-hacker distros is they are pretty close to getting it right. | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles#HID_host_.28i.e._support_for_Bluetooth_keyboards.29 | 03:50 |
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| raster | haltdef: probably a smart move :) chances are a lot of people in this channel can shoot down most of your linux complaints (vs some other os) as being not an os problem, but a problem of either closed hw vendors, or distribution choices, or simple bias | 03:50 |
| raster | :) | 03:50 |
| * C-S-B-N900 should stop reading his name as DocScrotumizer | 03:51 | |
| haltdef | mm, some things are far from the fault of the OS itself but still affect its usability | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | pal, you got NO IDEA :-P | 03:51 |
| haltdef | last I checked blu-ray playback just wasn't possible without removing drm | 03:52 |
| C-S-B-N900 | :) | 03:52 |
| ptl_n900 | haltdef: you can't get killed by voicing your opinion on IRC... Nevertheless, the reason of the rejection of such utterances by some linux hackers is due to the fact that linux is a perfectly usable desktop, in some parts much better than windows (e.g. windows management), but some people tuned with the mental mode of windows which can't learn something new just do not seem to adapt. | 03:52 |
| haltdef | (which itself can diaf) | 03:52 |
| RobbieAB | haltdef: Some of my biggest gripes with OSX are directly related to decisions apple made, ditto with windows. | 03:52 |
| RobbieAB | (ok, windows were MS decisions) | 03:52 |
| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: bluray is not a linux limitation. | 03:52 |
| haltdef | I know :p | 03:53 |
| lcukn900 | window management in linux on ubuntu at least is odd | 03:53 |
| RobbieAB | Do we really care about BluRay? | 03:53 |
| haltdef | yes. | 03:53 |
| haltdef | own a few | 03:53 |
| lcukn900 | the time i click a button for makes result differnt | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | moin raster | 03:53 |
| RobbieAB | On our computers? (Or even our tellys), are we actually getting any benefit from the supposedly better image? | 03:53 |
| C-S-B-N900 | haltdef: and although i have to pump it through dumphd into mplayer, i can play bluray happily. | 03:53 |
| haltdef | see, hackery | 03:54 |
| haltdef | pop disc in and work please | 03:54 |
| lcukn900 | clicking x in ubuntu very quickly actually passes the close event to a window behind | 03:54 |
| * RobbieAB cackles insanely | 03:54 | |
| lcukn900 | its infuriating | 03:54 |
| haltdef | :o | 03:54 |
| RobbieAB | That REALLY doesn't work on ANY OS | 03:54 |
| ptl_n900 | it's 'hackery' until someone makes a pretty interface for it. | 03:54 |
| ptl_n900 | at least you've got this option | 03:54 |
| ptl_n900 | this is the point | 03:54 |
| lcukn900 | ms media centre works a treat | 03:54 |
| ptl_n900 | in Windows you don't have this option. | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ubuntu | 03:55 |
| infobot | Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. | 03:55 |
| RobbieAB | lcukn900: So long as you agree to play by their rules. | 03:55 |
| lcukn900 | playing dvd. pop in memory card. click play on dialog | 03:55 |
| RobbieAB | How well can windows handle ogg files? | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ubuntu also is http://xkcd.com/424/ | 03:55 |
| * infobot lovingly explains to also is http://xkcd.com/424/ in a way that causes also is http://xkcd.com/424/ to weep with gratitude that also is http://xkcd.com/424/ must read the fine, friendly manual | 03:55 | |
| lcukn900 | play episode from usb. stop it. carry on dvd | 03:55 |
| jacekowski | RobbieAB: very well | 03:55 |
| lcukn900 | seamless | 03:55 |
| RobbieAB | jacekowski: out of the box? | 03:55 |
| lcukn900 | robbie i dunno | 03:55 |
| jacekowski | i think so | 03:56 |
| lcukn900 | where can i buy ogg files from? | 03:56 |
| jacekowski | nowhere | 03:56 |
| lcukn900 | do they work in my car stereo? | 03:56 |
| jacekowski | buy flac | 03:56 |
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| RobbieAB | jacekowski: not the last time I checked. | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 03:56 |
| jacekowski | RobbieAB: xp maybe not | 03:56 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: docz! | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 03:56 |
| ptl_n900 | ~Debian policy | 03:56 |
| * infobot tells policy to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! | 03:56 | |
| jacekowski | but i'm sure that win7 supports ogg out of the box | 03:56 |
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| lcukn900 | mp3 = more universal | 03:56 |
| RobbieAB | I just meant that for all the fancy stuff, it is trivially easy to trip it up and than it's horribly hard to get to work. | 03:56 |
| jacekowski | well i either use mp3 or flac | 03:57 |
| RobbieAB | Linux? Mostly my experiences are that LESS hackery is needed | 03:57 |
| jacekowski | or whatever i was given | 03:57 |
| C-S-B-N900 | jacekowski: really, thats a step in the right directi | 03:57 |
| lcukn900 | but it would never need to trip | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly someone vandalized infobot's factoid database? | 03:57 |
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| RobbieAB | lcukn900: Try working on a helpdesk :p | 03:57 |
| jacekowski | C-S-B-N900: problem with that is that EU will eat microsoft because of that at some point | 03:57 |
| lcukn900 | robbie, how do you know i dont now | 03:57 |
| jacekowski | C-S-B-N900: as they did with IE | 03:58 |
| jacekowski | C-S-B-N900: and media player | 03:58 |
| RobbieAB | lcukn900: because if you are seriously telling me that windows "can't be tripped up" or shouldn't ever be, you are, frankly, deluded, no offence. | 03:58 |
| RobbieAB | so far, realplayer formats, quicktime formats, neither work "Out of the box" on windows. | 03:59 |
| lcukn900 | i never said it couldnt be tripped up. but the argument you gibe is not one that would be needed | 03:59 |
| raster | RobbieAB: blueray is DEFINITELy better quality than dvd. visibly better by a wide margin. but then again all my screens are at least 1920x1080 or better and my eyesight is better than 20/20 - so to me it stands out like a sore thumb if its dvd quality vs full hd | 03:59 |
| raster | its like 32kbit mp3 vs 256kbit | 03:59 |
| jacekowski | RobbieAB: because of license limitations | 03:59 |
| RobbieAB | every linux media player worth talking off handles it. | 03:59 |
| raster | for an audio equivalent | 03:59 |
| lcukn900 | customers who get music really dont often accidentally a whole ogg | 03:59 |
| raster | (well to my eyes it is) | 03:59 |
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| jacekowski | RobbieAB: and you are saying loads of bullshit | 03:59 |
| C-S-B-N900 | raster: better than 20/20 | 03:59 |
| jacekowski | RobbieAB: not you | 03:59 |
| C-S-B-N900 | ? | 03:59 |
| jacekowski | raster: you are saying loads of bullshit | 04:00 |
| raster | C-S-B-N900: well i can pass the 20/20 vision tests and still read smaller test. | 04:00 |
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| RobbieAB | raster: Some people do, 99% of people can't see it, and certainly can't see it on a 40" screen from 10 feet. | 04:00 |
| jacekowski | raster: there is no way that anybody can tell the difference between dvd and blu ray from normal viewing distance | 04:00 |
| raster | jacekowski: am i? please explain. since graphics is not just a hobby, but it's been pretty much my life's work. | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ubuntu is also http://xkcd.com/424/ | 04:00 |
| * infobot lovingly explains to is also http://xkcd.com/424/ in a way that causes is also http://xkcd.com/424/ to weep with gratitude that is also http://xkcd.com/424/ must read the fine, friendly manual | 04:01 | |
| RobbieAB | And furthermore, where it can be seen, it's often distracting. | 04:01 |
| C-S-B-N900 | night dudes. | 04:01 |
| lcukn900 | jacekowski, sure there is but thats by the by | 04:01 |
| ShadowJK | http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=MOOBEX "MOOBEX stands for Multimedia Out-Of-Box EXperience. It is a test suite of multimedia samples designing to testing an operating system's multimedia capabilities when that OS is in its freshest state (just after it has been installed)." | 04:01 |
| raster | jacekowski: i call bullshit on that. i can. by a country mile. just because your eyes are broken, does not mean mine are. i can absolutely tell the difference. | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~literal ubuntu | 04:01 |
| infobot | "ubuntu" is "<reply>Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian, and it is unlikely to live up to Debian's standards (see <Debian policy>). Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu (irc.freenode.net) instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian." | 04:01 |
| raster | graphics is what i do | 04:01 |
| raster | i will bithc about thigns being 1 pixel off - on a 300dpi screen. | 04:02 |
| lcukn900 | raster and i for one am glad of it | 04:02 |
| RobbieAB | raster: What is the dots per arc second of full HD on 40" from 10'? | 04:02 |
| lcukn900 | is bluray still compressed in yuv | 04:02 |
| lcukn900 | with half resolution uv | 04:03 |
| raster | blu-ray is definitely much better quality (well lets just talk 480p vs full 1080p as thats the real nuts and bolts) | 04:03 |
| raster | RobbieAB: i'm not a human calculator for you. you do the math yourself :) | 04:03 |
| jacekowski | now you are just talking marketing | 04:03 |
| raster | lcukn900: correct. as is dvd. | 04:03 |
| jacekowski | and bullshit | 04:03 |
| lcukn900 | yeah raster. when we see full hd games they are rendered at higher rgba res then | 04:04 |
| RobbieAB | raster: I don't need to, because I already no the answer is somewhere approaching visibility... but on 40" it is only APPROACHING. | 04:04 |
| jacekowski | it's like contrast 1:3000 is worse than 1:6000 | 04:04 |
| lcukn900 | which surprised me when i realised | 04:04 |
| RobbieAB | i.e. It's still not visible. | 04:04 |
| jacekowski | but nobody can see difference | 04:04 |
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| lcukn900 | robbie i used to think i couldnt tell pixels apart on my 225dpi screen | 04:05 |
| lcukn900 | now i notice | 04:05 |
| lcukn900 | and the dpi is higher on n900 | 04:05 |
| raster | jacekowski: no. i'm not. 1920x1080 is a significant amount more pixels than the 720x480 or so of dvd. | 04:05 |
| RobbieAB | It takes 52-60" for 99% of the world to actually see the pixels, from normal viewing distance. | 04:05 |
| raster | its not bullshit. its simple math | 04:05 |
| raster | you have the same spattial fidelity loss in uv in both dvd and bluray - so its moot comparing | 04:06 |
| jacekowski | how close you have to be to see that difference? | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot has a strange kinda humor | 04:06 |
| RobbieAB | lcukn900: you can tell the the difference if you get very close. That said, 300dpi is getting to the point where from 3 inches you need a magnifying glass. | 04:06 |
| ssvb | jacekowski: the experience probably probably varies for different blueray disks, the first one that I bought had excellent image quality (and I decided that I'm not going back to DVD), but a few others unfortunately did not and I had to reconsider :) | 04:06 |
| raster | RobbieAB: then why ask the questions if you know so much? you dont even quote the numbers you aslo assume 10 feet - which is not often the case. have you lived in asia? probably not. lived in japan? where your living room quote often is 2.5m wide - not even 10ft. so distance from your head to tv is more like 6ft | 04:07 |
| lcukn900 | upscaled dvd quick cashin on name ssvb? | 04:07 |
| raster | not to mention a prevalence of 40-50" or more tv's there at good prices | 04:07 |
| lcukn900 | i was talking with missus about wallmounting tv in bedroom tonight | 04:08 |
| jacekowski | it has to be fun to watch 50" from 2m | 04:08 |
| raster | it is | 04:08 |
| lcukn900 | WITH THE VOLUME UP | 04:08 |
| RobbieAB | raster: Why ask the numbers? Ever heard of rhetorical questions? Attempts to make you think? | 04:08 |
| raster | you get a full field of view filled with tv :) | 04:08 |
| raster | or well.. most of the important bits | 04:08 |
| raster | :) | 04:08 |
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| raster | RobbieAB: dude. i do graphics for a living. i dont need to be schooled with your numbers. i know what yoou are talking about. i happen to disagree. becuase your assumptions on tv sizes and distances are merely assumptions | 04:09 |
| * RobbieAB is simply going to ignore raster as the kind of pretensious art twerp he has to deal with at work. | 04:09 | |
| raster | also your assumption on human visual fidelity is just that - an assumption | 04:09 |
| raster | it is not the case for every home and person | 04:09 |
| raster | you say there is no difference between dvd and blu-ray | 04:10 |
| raster | i will bet hyou $100 that i will tell the difference easily - i do it all the time. | 04:10 |
| RobbieAB | No, I say that 99% of the world can't tell the difference. NOT that same at all | 04:10 |
| raster | but... you have your opinion - regardless of evidence to the contrary and i know people liek you - i deal with them at work al the time. they form and opinion and will never be dissuaded no matter the evidence. they are a pain in the butt. | 04:11 |
| raster | <RobbieAB> Do we really care about BluRay? | 04:11 |
| raster | <RobbieAB> On our computers? (Or even our tellys), are we actually getting any benefit from the supposedly better image? | 04:12 |
| * ShadowJK looks slightly worried at his N810 pushing 1A current into its battery... | 04:12 | |
| raster | nowhere did you mention "99%" | 04:12 |
| ShadowJK | Man eneloops are powerful.. I've never seen my tekkeon push this much current before :-) | 04:12 |
| raster | and the difference is even more pronounced with laptops and desktosp where screens are closer and can often exceed the resolution of most tv's | 04:13 |
| lcukn900 | robbie, raster has a long experience and is one of the principle experts in the field with numerous impressive systems under his belt. you are an unknown. i am sure if anyne has seen and worked with things you are hypothosising about it would be him | 04:13 |
| RobbieAB | raster: Apologies, I hadn't realised you were in that liberal group who thinks what's good for 1% of the world justifies ramming expensive and worthless overspeced solutions on the rest of us | 04:13 |
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| raster | (well often enough in my home) | 04:13 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 04:13 |
| ShadowJK | nobody is forcing you do buy DVDs | 04:13 |
| * lcukn900 happens to like hearing about graphical improvements | 04:13 | |
| ShadowJK | probably you can still pirate VCDs from teh intarwebs :D | 04:13 |
| * till- definitely can see the difference between sd and hd :) | 04:13 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | raster, +3 | 04:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RobbieAB/raster, but either way, it's rather off topic. | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: Amazing how calm you're today ;-D | 04:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RobbieAB, so quote something besides your made up statistics or kindly take it elsewhere. :) | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: + | 04:16 |
| raster | RobbieAB: look. it's pretty simple. i see a visible benefit of fulll hd video content. you question if we really car. wel.. i care. so we definitely doesn't include me. if your eyesight is shot - then thats not my problem. i disagree with your statement that says that full-hd basically offers no improvement for us in terms of visual quality. you of course, don't like that i disagree and decide to label me as a twerp and whatever else. as i su | 04:16 |
| raster | urmised. you are one of those people with an opinion and how dare anyone disagree with it OR you even be forced to re-asses your opinion. | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: hold it. leads nowhere | 04:17 |
| raster | as i said. i do graphics for a living. i spend my days staring at pixels generated, encoded, decoded and god knows what else. *I* care about visual fidelity. :) | 04:17 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: true :) | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | raster, so not worth the energy to waste moving your fingers around. ;) | 04:17 |
| RobbieAB | raster: I specifically asked for the critical numbers, and yoou claimed you didn't know, didn't care. | 04:17 |
| raster | RobbieAB: no. i said i wasnt a human calculator | 04:17 |
| * ShadowJK wonders how come youtube uses x264 for baseline 480p h264, but still use some crappy whatever encoder for 720p and 1080p... | 04:18 | |
| raster | anyway | 04:18 |
| RobbieAB | Before I said anything about lumping you in with the graphics people who assure me that A0 posters need to be done at 600DPI | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's people who know raster, and there's people who think they know better | 04:18 |
| RobbieAB | But anyway. | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, really? | 04:18 |
| raster | you have also not quoted your supposed rehotical question's answer. so for now i will assume you are unable to back up the rhetorical bit of it. | 04:18 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, well that's what I was told a month ago | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, lol. | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | gentlemenn, please take it elsewhere | 04:19 |
| ShadowJK | and before that the story was that youtube used "XVID AVC", or in other words, they hired one of the xvid guys during summer break and he hacked up a h264 encoder for them :-) | 04:19 |
| ShadowJK | So at ~1C rate, N810 started tapering off charge at ~65% charge level :) | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | you mean it started CV | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | Well, kinda. | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds about norma | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | l | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | The charger in N8x0 is kinda "special" | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | PWM regulated, PWM frequency about 1hz | 04:23 |
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| ShadowJK | (and I didn't forget a letter there) | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | or went down to <100% duty cycle, or whatever they might use for a charging method on N810 | 04:23 |
| raster | eh? | 04:24 |
| dotblank | If im porting some apps and I need to pull some apps from the debian repo which release/version should I use | 04:24 |
| ShadowJK | The battery voltage is momentarily spiking above 4.3V | 04:24 |
| raster | the n810 dc charger ... isnt dc? its 1hz ac? | 04:24 |
| ShadowJK | raster, the thing you plug into the power outlet is a powersupply | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: it's pulse widt modulated full-I charger | 04:24 |
| raster | yes | 04:24 |
| raster | input is ac (100-240v, 50-60hz or so etc.) | 04:25 |
| ShadowJK | raster, then the N810 switches the current on/off... at approx 1hz rate | 04:25 |
| raster | and output should be xV DC - right? | 04:25 |
| raster | oooh | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: right. ShadowJK is talking about the MBC circuit inside the n810 | 04:25 |
| raster | gotch | 04:25 |
| raster | so charging circuit is doing that | 04:25 |
| raster | gotcha | 04:26 |
| ShadowJK | es | 04:26 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 04:26 |
| raster | i know my pixels | 04:26 |
| raster | but dont ask me about charging stuff | 04:26 |
| ShadowJK | the dubious realm of pulsed charging essentially | 04:26 |
| raster | beyond "is the green light on?" | 04:26 |
| raster | :) | 04:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: not unusual (PWM). 6210 (2000) does it too | 04:26 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah N900 is the first Nokia I've examined that doesn't do it | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why we got nasty BME heritage | 04:27 |
| ShadowJK | I think everything with 2mm chargiing port does it | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:27 |
| ShadowJK | And non-ancient 3.5mm port too, probably | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why those chargers are defined to have a certain impedance of around maybe 1Ohm | 04:28 |
| ShadowJK | plus the acceptable voltage/current windows.. | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | also ancient 3.5mm - see 6210 | 04:28 |
| * lcukn900 sleeps | 04:28 | |
| lcukn900 | gnite maemo \o | 04:29 |
| ShadowJK | 6210 isn't that ancient :) | 04:29 |
| b-man17 | c ya lcukn900 | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 2000 model is | 04:29 |
| ShadowJK | I guess when I say ancient I mean nimh | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | 6210 came with LiIon but also was able to use NiMH battery pack | 04:30 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders where to find a dimmable 12v halogen light transformer. | 04:30 | |
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| * MohammadAG_ pings w00t_ and kindly asks for the facebook app | 04:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: they're all dimmable - you need the right dimmer though :-P | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | I WANT IT NOW | 04:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | jk :P | 04:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, well, OK, one that wont catch fire if I use a pretty standard incandescent dimmer switch. | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | i.e., one of these http://www.smarthome.com/2476d.html | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | it needs to cut out end of sine halfwave | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | not switch on inmidst the wave | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | The cheap Chinese one that's in there now makes lots of buzzing if you dim it. | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | It also spits out ridiculous amounts of line noise. | 04:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure, and it's kill the t'transformer' 's rectifier | 04:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you got a greatz bridge and a capacitor. now switch on at sine peak voltage - - - SURGE | 04:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: for inductive loads you mustn't use switch-off dimmers (voltage spike), for capacitive loads you mustn't use switch-on dimmers (current surge) | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | generally switch-off dimmers are more expensive than normal ones | 04:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: so if you got an electronic 'transformer' you need to switch-off dim it. The heavy steel and copper monsters are hard to dim anyway, but if at all then with a special classic switch-on dimmer | 04:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, the dimmer's switch-on, I think. | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | most are | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | switch-off are rare (as they're more expensive) and they are marked in big letters 'for electronic transformer use' | 04:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, there were some at the home improvement center. | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | or cut-out, switch-off OWTTE | 04:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | About $40 | 04:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unfortunately I don't know if anybody makes one for INSTEON. | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | homematic started with switch-off about 5 weeks ago | 04:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, LVT-303-12 DC says "Dimmable with trailing and leading edge dimmers" | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 04:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hooboy, $140 | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | trailing edge it switch-off aiui | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 04:48 |
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| adalal | hello all | 04:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: what's the theoretical maximum bpp you get with usual video codec formats? Or is this a noob question... | 05:05 |
| lolznet | anyone seen briwerk? or britx lately? | 05:05 |
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| lolznet | realize.uscd.edu | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen briwerk | 05:06 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'briwerk', DocScrutinizer | 05:06 |
| lolznet | ~seen britx | 05:06 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'britx', lolznet | 05:06 |
| lolznet | ~seen briatx | 05:07 |
| infobot | briatx <n=brian@mail.idenesis.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 776d 17h 16m ago, saying: 'and pupnik too. are you ArnimS from ITT?'. | 05:07 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, well you can decode it to float if you're insane ;p | 05:07 |
| ShadowJK | Not that it says anything about the actual signal level inside. | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yeah, I can transcode 1bpp to 48bit rgb | 05:07 |
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| ShadowJK | usually you target 8 bit per comoponent, iirc | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm interested in the actual precision/granularity used in codecs | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahh, thanks | 05:08 |
| ShadowJK | though mpeg2 can have 10-12bit DC precision iirc | 05:08 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: maximum theoretical bpp? | 05:09 |
| raster | hmm | 05:09 |
| ShadowJK | and that's probably carried over into mpeg4asp and mpeg4avc/h264 and used by nobody | 05:09 |
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| raster | well technically its not an easy mapping from yuv to rgb thanks to the equation | 05:09 |
| raster | and linear-interpolation of u and v expand the colorspace theoretically | 05:09 |
| raster | as such 16bpp is definitely a subseet of yuv precision | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, yeah | 05:10 |
| raster | 24bpp overall likely is a superset | 05:10 |
| ShadowJK | I think the best thing that h264 brought us was a bit-exact definition of the (i)DCT transform | 05:10 |
| raster | tho the problem is all that interpolation that theoretically can add an extra bit to r, g and b | 05:10 |
| raster | if u assume for now u can get exact neighbouring values to decode | 05:11 |
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| raster | i'd have to do some math to figure it out really | 05:11 |
| raster | but even 18bpp wont be enough | 05:11 |
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| raster | to cover it | 05:12 |
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| raster | so as such - in the real world u will use 24/32bpp to cover yuv decode (properly) | 05:12 |
| raster | as really 18bpp exists - but is impractical | 05:12 |
| raster | 16bpp is the next practical depth down from 24/32 | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 05:12 |
| raster | (and by 32 i mean 24bp with 8 byte "alpha" padding) | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe alpha | 05:13 |
| ShadowJK | hm, lavc can do 11bits intra DC precision for mpeg2... but then I guess AC and inter is 8bit? I have no clue how that translates into per-frame RGB precision ;p | 05:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: anyway you think crating a video from a 24bpp testpattern would yield a optimum codec exploitation | 05:14 |
| raster | do thus the quotes. for surfaces u use to com pose the fb it can be used as an alpha channel. but for the fb itself - this is rarely the case.. tho some hw actually does support the upper 8 bits of 32bpp to be an alpha channel/mask for overlaying a yuv buffer | 05:14 |
| raster | ShadowJK: its complicated | 05:15 |
| raster | sjha as such y, u and v have 8bit ranges once decoded, but you should only use a subset of them | 05:15 |
| raster | (min and max value) | 05:15 |
| raster | and these map to a range within the 8 bit rgb output | 05:15 |
| raster | technically as its an idct its a contiinuous function so talking of these bits is stupid as we are discretisiogn what is a continuous thing | 05:16 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 05:16 |
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| raster | but reality is it will have a resolution somewhere - and thats 99% likely the 8bits of decoded y, u and v from the decoder | 05:16 |
| raster | (just sanity fitting the color plans inot a space u can easily compute with) | 05:17 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, a static test picture would only "test" the yuv<->rgb path really | 05:17 |
| raster | i need to look up the ranges and mappings again on y, u and v to check on what the actual fidelity may end up as for a mapping to r, g and b | 05:17 |
| raster | even then its a cubic problem as y, u and v all affect r, g and b out | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless there must be a rule of thumb where I can say with these specs this is a decent video file to test if the decoder cheats or does the full bith depth | 05:18 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: good point. my beet is somewhere such standard video files exist - but within companies | 05:19 |
| raster | they have a standard video stream or 2 or 3 | 05:19 |
| raster | they must pay those well | 05:19 |
| ShadowJK | Well.. more important/interesting than bit depth imo is whether things output the full YUV range or the "proper" limited YUV range, and whether whatever displays it expects the full or the limited range, and whether it transforms it correctly | 05:19 |
| raster | they have some reference source to compare to | 05:19 |
| ShadowJK | like, it's such a mess that I think in real world you're more likely to lose alot of signal by stuff using the incorrect transform | 05:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | friggin mess | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 05:20 |
| raster | chances are your lcd is the worst bit | 05:20 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 05:20 |
| raster | mosty lcd's i have seen over the past few years are actually just 18bit (6bit per r, g and b) | 05:20 |
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| raster | so going to 24bpp means u basically lose your 2 lsbits | 05:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: to me it seems my sat decoder is considerably worse than my LCD | 05:21 |
| raster | lcd's are gettign better | 05:21 |
| raster | oled gives u full fidelity | 05:21 |
| raster | but now u pay a different price | 05:21 |
| raster | pentile | 05:21 |
| raster | :) | 05:21 |
| ShadowJK | And when fed with a YUV signal they'll do the wrong transform and either over-saturate/clip your signal, or in the other extreme, wash it out and create banding.. | 05:21 |
| raster | ShadowJK: very possible | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: as I see really poor | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | skin colors via sat | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | while good colors via analogue terestrial or even dvb-t | 05:22 |
| raster | do on n900? | 05:22 |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: comparing to on n900? | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | (built-in decoder of TV) | 05:22 |
| raster | ooh | 05:22 |
| raster | hmm | 05:22 |
| raster | thats not good | 05:23 |
| ShadowJK | and then you have the whole issue of all these "real time" mpeg/mpeg4/h264 encoders that are optimized for PSNR rather than visual perceived quality :) | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | my assumptions were the cheap sat decoder does a 5/6/5, like n900 AV probably does | 05:23 |
| jacekowski | don't underestimate n900 | 05:23 |
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| ShadowJK | so they're likely to leave an area of similar colours as a single solid color, or just a simple gradient | 05:24 |
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| jacekowski | besides, you can always do PWM | 05:24 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: þe n900 should be using its yuv layer - so that means its better than 565 by a long shot | 05:24 |
| raster | ie its full yuv colorspace | 05:24 |
| raster | unless its software decoder | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's exactly what I see. all the face 'painted' in one or two colorsa | 05:25 |
| jacekowski | hdmi in a phone would be nice | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it's quite similar on sat decoder and on N900 AV output | 05:25 |
| ShadowJK | Even 2001-era graphics card ate YUV and output analog signal with precision as good as its DAC and the original 12bit YUV data.. | 05:25 |
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| ShadowJK | even if your desktop was 286-colour or whatever | 05:26 |
| ShadowJK | 256* | 05:26 |
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| jacekowski | in the end graphic card had only rgb output | 05:27 |
| jacekowski | not yuv | 05:27 |
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| ShadowJK | Because the video was handled by a separate hardware unit that placed its own output ontop of the output produced by the rgb framebuffer pipeline | 05:27 |
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| ShadowJK | These days they use their shaders and whatever to emulate the old behaviour of separate hw unit.. | 05:28 |
| jacekowski | these days they use CPU for it and drivers | 05:28 |
| ShadowJK | Nah colourspace transform is still done in HW | 05:29 |
| ShadowJK | and scaling | 05:29 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | What's the best day of the week to do open source programming? | 05:30 |
| jacekowski | none | 05:30 |
| jacekowski | make it closed source | 05:31 |
| jacekowski | it will at least pay for your pizza and coke | 05:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | opensource is coded by night | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | at? | 05:32 |
| ShadowJK | For coding, whenever you're not distracted is best | 05:32 |
| ShadowJK | for collaboration, whenever other people are on | 05:33 |
| anotnac | is there a email widget kinda like the conversations one? | 05:33 |
| ShadowJK | maemo.org infrastrucutre tends to die on weekends, so that kills collaboration and if you have your source repo on maemo.org I guess coding isn't as comfortable anymore | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: darwinistic load balancing XP | 05:34 |
| ShadowJK | so you might just as well call your pimp and dealer on friday noon and have them deliver whores and coke, and if you're unlucky you return to reality on sunday evening and discover your booze and money is gone but your ~ is filled with new source code you have no clue how it works | 05:34 |
| ShadowJK | monday-thursday is spent understanding the code you wrote and fixing the bugs | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | hrhrhrrr sounds just like RL | 05:35 |
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| dotblank | hmm | 05:44 |
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| dotblank | ok im at a point in order to port an application it is asking for word size and endianess | 05:44 |
| dotblank | this is processor specific. Does anyone know what the values for armel are? | 05:45 |
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| dotblank | nvm looks like I figured it out | 05:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually if your app doesn't deal with file formats or hardware interfaces, that this shouldn't matter unless it's very poor coding style | 05:49 |
| dotblank | I think its dealing with crypto | 05:49 |
| dotblank | tomcrypt | 05:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui crypo excange formats all are byte based (actually char based I'd say). So those math wizards decided to do bit juggling madness instead of proper math / logic | 05:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably some math professor thought he's better on optimization than the compiler. Odds are he never heard of compiler optimization at all | 05:56 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | what if I use a kernel image with smartReflex active by default, overclocked to 900 MHz and with NAT support? What if? | 06:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you win the fool's batch of the week | 06:04 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | lol | 06:09 |
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| dotblank | Ok if im compiling a file with GLES/gl.h includes and I need to use the opengl es lib what -l flag do I use | 06:11 |
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| ReadyKilowatt | Anyone know a maemo-friendly nasa TV feed? | 06:32 |
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| mandaya | hey all, my name is Arjun, and I'm a student at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. I'm interested in working with Maemo/MeeGo for Google Summer of Code. I'd love to work on any project that the community finds useful (especially as a member of the userbase!), but in particular, I would love to work on the ebook reader. As someone who frequently reads ebooks, having a good app for that would be fantastic, and I feel I can contribute in that way. Also, I know O | 07:37 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: evince is terrific for reading PDFs and FBReader is great for reading the rest. | 07:43 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: what is happening with apt on the SDK? I can't find mplayer using apt-cache search, it's there on the packages list but even apt-cache policy mplayer doesn't show it. http://pastebin.com/WncVXnvE | 07:46 |
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| mandaya | ptl_demands_PR12: ah, cool, wasn't aware that evince was ported to maemo already. I was just going on the project ideas list for GSoC; the ebook reader was what caught my eye first :) | 07:46 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: evince even has kinetic scrolling... | 07:48 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: if you could however do an app for reading via camera some infrared controls and making a LIRC configuration file for use on IRReco and other programs... Or a good shopping list program... Or a program that can use a custom ringtone for every contact/group... | 07:49 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: that would be terrific! | 07:49 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: these are all areas where the N900 is lacking | 07:52 |
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| mandaya | ptl_demands_PR12: what do you mean by reading infrared controls from a camera? infrared controls for what? | 07:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | he means learning mode for IR remote for appliances. To read in the IR TX patterns for a particular original remote control | 07:59 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: the camera can "see" infrared as a bright light | 08:03 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: I just tried using mplayer with xwinwrap on the N900 to try and get animated wallpapers. Didn't work :( | 08:03 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: the IR sensor on the N900 is an emitter but not a receiver. So, you cannot use it to read output from an IR Remote Control | 08:05 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | mandaya: if we can use the camera to read the IR signal, we could have the base frequency and patterns of the IR Remote Control and build a LIRC file for it. | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | if we could | 08:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl_demands_PR12: and you got a new idea how to get the carrier frequency and data pattern from a camera that hardly does more than 60 fps? | 08:08 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | yes... if it is possible at all, there's been some controversy here | 08:08 |
| mandaya | ptl_demands_PR12: ah, that does sound interesting, but DocScrutinizer's objections still stand | 08:09 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: it sweeps the screen dot by dot at every nanosecond or such, so if you get the IR light close enough, you might get the real frequency. | 08:09 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | 5 MP camera, 30 frames per second | 08:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ptl_demands_PR12: nice you're quoting me, still I asked for *new* ideas :-P | 08:09 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | if the light dominates the central part of the screen, say, the central 1 MP, you have 30 MHz freqency to sweep | 08:09 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ok | 08:10 |
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| crashanddie | guys, a bit off topic, but I need some help | 08:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mandaya: I did a video recording while placing the IR LED directly on the cam lens, so the whole picture/sensor got uniformly exposed to the light. On watching such video you can see some kind of light and dark horizontal bars. Depending on the way the sensors does exposure and is read out, you might possibly find even smaller moiree formed by the carrier freq that's between 30 and 45kHz | 08:14 |
| crashanddie | (normal web page), I have 500 items to display, linearly (meaning that each item follows the previous one, etc), and contextual information that spans multiple items | 08:15 |
| crashanddie | how would you see that being displayed? | 08:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | mandaya: you'd need to do several samples so you can reconstruct the full datastream fro the sniplets contained in each picture of the video, and fill in the time gaps between pictures of one video | 08:15 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | crashanddie: in a grid/matrix? | 08:16 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | crashanddie: it depends on the contextual information, I guess | 08:16 |
| crashanddie | I was thinking that in real web 2.0 spirit, I should make it scale, meaning that I should display 500 items on one line, and then allow people to zoom in on the area they're interested in | 08:16 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | crashanddie: would it make it groupable? Is this information like tags or categories? | 08:16 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: collapsable list? | 08:16 |
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| crashanddie | ptl_demands_PR12: try to imagine that the information is a list of houses on a single street, contextual information is "specific houses can listen to what is happening around them in X range" | 08:19 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: interesting, but I'd rather stay horizontal tbh | 08:19 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | crashanddie: wow, that will be difficult. And reading that description I understood why the "scale" idea. Indeed, a looking-glass through the items might have lots of sense. But on the other hand, it seems that to find the information the user would have to run through all the 'houses', isn't it? He should be able to do that looking only through a small subset. | 08:21 |
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| crashanddie | well, I did this a few years ago | 08:22 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | If there are categories, best would be to collapse by them | 08:22 |
| crashanddie | well, actually, each "house" contains 15 "flats" | 08:22 |
| crashanddie | so I could expand even further, and there at 10 streets ;) | 08:22 |
| crashanddie | s/at/are/ | 08:22 |
| infobot | crashanddie meant: so I could expand even further, and there are 10 streets ;) | 08:22 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: staying horizontal with 500 items is a bad idea | 08:23 |
| crashanddie | the way we solved this a few years ago, I think, is that we simply had a table showing 50 items, and a coloured stripe above the table that would show if specific house is within the range of another person | 08:23 |
| crashanddie | and then just navigation buttons left and right to go through the full 500 | 08:24 |
| mandaya | DocScrutinizer: so then I presume the idea is to do a histogram analysis on the image and direct good matches appropriately? | 08:25 |
| mandaya | or rather, images | 08:26 |
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| RST38h | crashanddie: And how have users liked that? =) | 08:28 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: well, considering the tool was massively helpful, they didn't really complain | 08:28 |
| RST38h | ahha | 08:28 |
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| crashanddie | it's like when you ask people to dig a swimming pool. You give them the choice between a shovel and a caterpillar with an uncomfortable seat. | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | mandaya: well, no histogram. Rather a pattern readout and analysis, based on some investigations done with known input signals and finding how they represent in the pictures | 08:31 |
| cehteh | morning | 08:31 |
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| * ptl_demands_PR12 just donated $20 to skeptoid.com... wonderful service | 08:32 | |
| mandaya | DocScrutinizer: alright, who should I contact for mentorship on such a project? | 08:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea, I'm not a mentor-worthy sw-devel | 08:38 |
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| mandaya | haha, alright, I'll keep idling on here and ask from time to time then | 08:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | mandaya: I just could help a little bit with the basics on how to use the hardware - on a mere hw functions level, no api or somesuch | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: a 'open bme' gsoc project could be interesting | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | ah, VDVsx has been integrated into the mothership it seems like | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm yes. But still, what's my role in GSoC? | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | you could technically sign up as mentor still i think | 08:45 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: So, what kind of a knob is he? | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no idea | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: maybe backup mentor for hw related issues | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 08:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl_demands_PR12: and camera not work like that. It has a virtual shutter that opens for several lines. The whole line is exposed, not one dot. | 08:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mandaya: anyway, your first task would obviously be to get a 10sec video in raw uncompressed format, and generally gain control over the details of cam module setup and opeartion | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: yep, that's what I thought as well | 08:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw another theoretical possibility would be to rapidly move the remote or shake the cam while taking a video | 08:54 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | SpeedEvil: I didn't know that, would it still be enough to get the frequency? I've read someone here saying that you don't need to get the base frequency (38 KHz or such), only the blinking frequency in top of the base frequency | 08:55 |
| SpeedEvil | qm | 08:55 |
| SpeedEvil | am | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you could get a exposure time of e.g 1/1000 then you could read carrier freq directly (in KHz) by counting number of dots | 08:55 |
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| mandaya | has opencv been ported to maemo? they have a really nice hooks into cameras and provide great image processing / recognition libraries | 09:03 |
| mandaya | if so, that would make obtaining the uncompressed video trivial | 09:03 |
| mandaya | from there it's a matter of manipulating the raw frames, extracting the IR data from the visual noise, etc. | 09:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, exactly | 09:05 |
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| mandaya | ok, I checked, opencv HAS been ported, so DocScrutinizer, the first step you suggested is trivial | 09:11 |
| mandaya | which is fantastic | 09:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 09:12 |
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| wazd_e63 | Moaning people :) | 09:13 |
| crashanddie | where? | 09:13 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | before you sign this as a google summer of code project, try to see if it's indeed possible, even with a very raw version. You don't want your project spoiled by being impossible, isn't it? On the other hand, if you are able to do it, it would be an amazing example of software overcoming hardware limitations. | 09:13 |
| wazd_e63 | Everywhere :) | 09:13 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | more like moaning people, not moaning people | 09:14 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | agh | 09:14 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | more like whining people, not moaning people | 09:14 |
| * ptl_demands_PR12 whines about PR1.2 once more | 09:14 | |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | good moaning to you too! | 09:14 |
| wazd_e63 | Ptl_demands_PR12: at least you have something to install it on :) | 09:14 |
| * wazd_e63 joins whining party | 09:15 | |
| crashanddie | ~homework | 09:15 |
| * infobot cries. | 09:15 | |
| wazd_e63 | But that russian ipad guy absolutely made my day :D | 09:16 |
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| Stskeeps | ipad guy? | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | night | 09:20 |
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| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: have you seen that epic BBC fail? :D | 09:22 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: live from apple store | 09:22 |
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| Stskeeps | nop | 09:23 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: oooh | 09:23 |
| wazd_e63 | m.youtube.com/watch?v=yhblfJxNrp0&hl=ru&gl=RU&client=mv-google | 09:24 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: russian guy screaming "that ipad is a piece of shit! Fuck it!" right at the opening :D | 09:25 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd_e63: excellnt | 09:29 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: he spent 500 bucks to perform this prank :D | 09:30 |
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| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: I love how apple is using same details for different products though | 09:31 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: ipad's using same battery clocks as macbook I guess | 09:31 |
| wazd_e63 | Blocks* | 09:32 |
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| wazd_e63 | But again, if I'd design an iPad, I'd screw that pathetic "thickness" games and fill whole area with batteries to allow user to use it for 24 hours :) | 09:38 |
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| rmrfchik | re | 09:55 |
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| Jaffa | Right, fixed MWKN released for today. | 10:08 |
| Jaffa | Only an hour late(ish). | 10:08 |
| rmrfchik | wazzup | 10:13 |
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| VDVsx | Jaffa, http://www.mwkn.net/2010/14/apps.html (look at #9) | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: we just got full elilo (with source) and linux 2.6.33 on joggler btw, so it's a bargain by now :) | 10:14 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | woohoo | 10:22 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | the guys in Europe are waking up. | 10:22 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Hope the lab at Finland finally release PR1.2 | 10:22 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | or else! | 10:22 |
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| cehteh | its holidays in much of europe .. easter :P | 10:23 |
| cehteh | (really much? germany at least, france iirc not) | 10:23 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | yet? | 10:24 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | monday? | 10:24 |
| cehteh | yes | 10:24 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | easter is sunday! | 10:24 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | oh, c'mon | 10:24 |
| cehteh | sunday and monday here | 10:24 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I'm tired of whining. | 10:24 |
| ruskie | easter friday and easter monday tend to be a holiday in quite a few parts | 10:24 |
| ruskie | only easter monday in slovenia though | 10:24 |
| ruskie | so stop whining | 10:25 |
| cehteh | friday too .. 'karfreitag' not easter is it called here | 10:25 |
| asj | ptl_demands_PR12: you have 1.2 eh? | 10:25 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | asj: wish I had | 10:25 |
| asj | ah | 10:26 |
| rmrfchik | PR12 is obsolete. Let's deman PR2.0 | 10:26 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ruskie: as soon as the N900 'marked as fixed' bugs stop popping up on my face, I'll stopo | 10:27 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/stopo/stop/ | 10:27 |
| infobot | ptl_demands_PR12 meant: ruskie: as soon as the N900 'marked as fixed' bugs stop popping up on my face, I'll stop | 10:27 |
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| asj | rmrfchik: just be happy Meego uses the n900 as devel platform | 10:29 |
| asj | I used an n97 for the last few days, I forgot how well Symbian works for some things | 10:29 |
| asj | Google Maps, Gravity, Gmail are great apps | 10:30 |
| rmrfchik | lovely xterm. "Hey, girls, I used to use dbus to call phones! I'm hackka!" | 10:30 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | You forgot Ovi Maps 3.03 | 10:30 |
| asj | Ovi Maps 3.x has some issues | 10:30 |
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| asj | like adding a way point, you can only add a POI, you can't search a map | 10:31 |
| rmrfchik | hmmm, does infobot support escaping? \ | 10:31 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | rmrfchik: if we could use dbus to intercept a call and change its ringtone on the fly one of the great downsides of N90 could be solved by now | 10:31 |
| rmrfchik | s/\\/\/ | 10:31 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | rmrfchik: but Nokia does not allow us to reach THAT level of hackka! | 10:32 |
| rmrfchik | infobot: you suck! learn some escaping! | 10:32 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | \\\\\\ | 10:32 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/\\/\/g | 10:32 |
| infobot | ptl_demands_PR12 meant: \\\ | 10:32 |
| rmrfchik | escape this \ | 10:32 |
| rmrfchik | s/\\/\/g | 10:32 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | 14/02/2010 | 10:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s#/#|#g | 10:33 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/\//-/g | 10:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | hmmm | 10:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | no escaping. | 10:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | so we can't replace / | 10:33 |
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| pupnik | somehow i got n900 to enable display withought backlight | 10:43 |
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| pupnik | it is great in sunlight - maybe 105mA chatting over 2g | 10:45 |
| pupnik | wish i knew how to set this when i want it | 10:45 |
| pwnguin | i didnt know it was transflective | 10:47 |
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| VDVsx | ptl_demands_PR12, holiday in Finland too, so no luck, I guess :D | 10:48 |
| rmrfchik | what holiday? | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | easter | 10:50 |
| pupnik | maybe this behaviour is tied to lkight sensor | 10:50 |
| rmrfchik | btw, what is proximity sensor? how it works? | 10:52 |
| VDVsx | Easter Monday :D lol | 10:52 |
| RST38h | Moo VDVsx | 10:53 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, mooooring :) | 10:54 |
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| * noobmonk3y has a hurty head!!! | 10:59 | |
| nidO | go to bed | 11:01 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | what did you do to your head? | 11:01 |
| phellarv | How does one see what clockspeed the CPU is currently running at? | 11:01 |
| cehteh | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 11:02 |
| phellarv | Nope | 11:02 |
| cehteh | or install conky | 11:02 |
| phellarv | Just Bogomips ther | 11:02 |
| cehteh | ah right .. well sysfs has something too | 11:03 |
| * noobmonk3y drank to much :( | 11:03 | |
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| phellarv | noobmonk3y: Then you drink a litre of water, and go to sleep | 11:03 |
| noobmonk3y | tried that and was sick after drinking too much water | 11:04 |
| nidO | so drink a little less this time | 11:04 |
| * noobmonk3y whinges | 11:04 | |
| nidO | or drink some diet pepsi | 11:04 |
| noobmonk3y | my n900 drained it's batetry dry last night too :( | 11:04 |
| noobmonk3y | battery* | 11:04 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | time in each CPU clock: | 11:05 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state | 11:05 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | there's this interesting statistics | 11:05 |
| noobmonk3y | :D | 11:05 |
| noobmonk3y | yup | 11:05 |
| noobmonk3y | i was looking at those yesterday | 11:05 |
| cehteh | cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq | 11:05 |
| cehteh | 250000 | 11:05 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | mine spents almost all time at 250 MHz | 11:05 |
| noobmonk3y | most do :D | 11:05 |
| noobmonk3y | saves battery | 11:05 |
| cehteh | time sleeping isnt accounted | 11:06 |
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| cehteh | most time it sleeps | 11:06 |
| Dassu | 7 | 11:06 |
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| pupnik | backlight seems to be tied to light sensor?! | 11:08 |
| nidO | ofc | 11:08 |
| nidO | same as the keyboard light | 11:08 |
| pupnik | i mean it is OFF now | 11:09 |
| pupnik | just typing via transflective in full sunlight | 11:09 |
| cehteh | pupnik: prolly one of the closed system daemons regulates that | 11:09 |
| cehteh | mce dsme ... | 11:09 |
| pupnik | well that is awesome if it is a feature :) | 11:10 |
| cehteh | pupnik: how do you turn it off of extended time? | 11:10 |
| pupnik | and more awesome if it is a bug :) | 11:10 |
| pupnik | if i hit display brightness settings it goes on again | 11:10 |
| pupnik | dunno | 11:10 |
| cehteh | ah | 11:10 |
| cehteh | well i suggested that, wanting to turn it off in full sunlight | 11:11 |
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| pupnik | or if display blanks and reactivates indoors | 11:11 |
| cehteh | backlight doesnt help much, just wastes battery | 11:11 |
| pupnik | awesome cehteh | 11:11 |
| cehteh | i didnt noticed this functionality yet | 11:11 |
| pupnik | helps render colors but i dont want that | 11:11 |
| pupnik | sun is shining in hessenm :) | 11:12 |
| pupnik | -m | 11:12 |
| cehteh | heh | 11:12 |
| cehteh | little cloudy here | 11:12 |
| cehteh | karlsruhe :P | 11:12 |
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| pupnik | ice city | 11:12 |
| nidO | my sister's where you are | 11:12 |
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| pupnik | nice even. lived there a few months | 11:12 |
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| cehteh | /sys/class/regulator/regulator.* .. anyone knows which regulators are controled by which number? | 11:15 |
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| cehteh | cat /sys/class/regulator/regulator.*/name | 11:15 |
| cehteh | VDAC_18 | 11:15 |
| cehteh | VUSB1V5 | 11:15 |
| cehteh | VUSB1V8 | 11:15 |
| cehteh | VUSB3V1 | 11:15 |
| cehteh | :) | 11:15 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | what is a regulator? | 11:22 |
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| pupnik | 8 am guessing Voltage | 11:26 |
| pupnik | I | 11:26 |
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| pupnik | yeah clouds just passed in front of sun and backlight came on. awesome nokia! | 11:27 |
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| crashanddie | pupnik: reciting your planning for tomorrow? | 11:28 |
| phellarv | Hmmm - Even when running lzma constantly, the CPU still prefer to run in 500, and not 900. | 11:28 |
| crashanddie | 8AM Guessing voltage, 9AM Ampere divination, 11AM Newton brunch... | 11:29 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | people, tell me. I swear I have looked in a lot of threads in talk.maemo.org, but has ANYONE figured out if it is possible to override the default ringing behaviour and somehow use a custom ringtone per contact? | 11:30 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I just want to know if it is possible. | 11:31 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | If there is some dbus trigger or API for that... | 11:31 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I couldn't find this answer at all. | 11:31 |
| lbt | ptl_demands_PR12: there was discussion on -dev ml recently - the answer is probably "not yet" | 11:32 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | phellarv: are you using the overclocked kernel? Does it come with NAT (masquerading) support? | 11:32 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | lbt: do you have a link for the discussion? If it does not take much of your time to get. | 11:32 |
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| pupnik | crashanddie: point taken | 11:32 |
| lbt | no, just in my inbox | 11:32 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | maemo-dev ? | 11:33 |
| lbt | subject "Routing SMS to another app." | 11:33 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | I mean, maemo-developers | 11:33 |
| pupnik | however backlight-off feature _is_ cool | 11:33 |
| lbt | http://pastie.org/903532 | 11:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ok | 11:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | found it, thanks. | 11:34 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | hmmm | 11:34 |
| * rmrfchik is loooking video "N97: The Truth" | 11:37 | |
| rmrfchik | fail ;) | 11:37 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | URL? | 11:39 |
| rmrfchik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJpEuMidcSU&feature=player_embedded | 11:39 |
| rmrfchik | it's some reminds me N900. | 11:40 |
| * ptl_demands_PR12 always strips the part after '&' from youtube videos | 11:40 | |
| rmrfchik | sad, sad modest. sad, sad phone app. sad, sad map. | 11:40 |
| rmrfchik | that's all sucks a lot. | 11:41 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: sad sad little man | 11:41 |
| rmrfchik | panda | 11:41 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | rmrfchik: wow, that was really lame of nokia. I didn't know the N97 sucked so hard. | 11:43 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I am beginning to understand why they are not dealing with the N900 with such a high priority by now. | 11:44 |
| rmrfchik | heh, n900 sucks not less. "It's phone call! Oh, wait while a get app from swap. Sec... A bit more. Here is your phone! Oops, you have 1 missed call" | 11:44 |
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| pupnik | oww -244mA with no cpu use or backlight. just irssi and 2G (!) | 11:45 |
| rmrfchik | It's alarm! Common, don't you expect get alarm applicatio right when it alarm happend, do you? dude... | 11:46 |
| pupnik | TTE 160 minutes | 11:46 |
| crashanddie | ptl_demands_PR12: the n97 had some issues in the first revision, but it's a lot better now | 11:46 |
| pupnik | NAC 601 | 11:46 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 11:47 | |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: +qrmi #maemo!*@* | 11:47 | |
| crashanddie | woops | 11:47 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -qrmi *!*@* | 11:47 | |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -q #maemo!*@* | 11:47 | |
| pupnik | this is not good. bbl | 11:47 |
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| *** crashanddie sets mode: +q rmrfchik!*@* | 11:48 | |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik: PM me when you're done moaning and bitching, thanks. | 11:48 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 11:48 | |
| noobmonk3y | meh | 11:48 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | crashanddie: that's what I am trying to find... I figured it should be due to the first revision indeed | 11:49 |
| crashanddie | ptl_demands_PR12: I really like the N97, I've used it quite a bit, and just looking at the video you can tell the guy is doing specific things on purpose | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | ptl_demands_PR12: first of all, he's holding the phone at an angle when doing the rotation -- yes, the portrait/landscape switching is a bit dodgy, but shaking it around doesn't help | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | and the browser, he's nearly not touching the screen, nor is he patient enough... Anyone knows that bashing on a computer, regardless of the type, while it's busy isn't helping things. | 11:51 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I figured that, I laughed when the guy started to shake the phone | 11:52 |
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| crashanddie | /op/ | 11:53 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 11:53 | |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -q rmr!*@* | 11:53 | |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | anyway... the N900 is quite smooth on its transitions | 11:54 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -q rmrfchick!*@* | 11:54 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 11:54 | |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I think it was rmrfchik, not rmrfchick | 11:54 |
| crashanddie | meh | 11:54 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 11:54 | |
| pupnik | it would be helpful for mobiles if the irc server bundled packets and only sent 0.5-1/second | 11:54 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -q rmrfchik!*@* | 11:54 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 11:55 | |
| crashanddie | thanks ptl_demands_PR12 | 11:55 |
| crashanddie | !ptl_demands_PR12++ | 11:55 |
| crashanddie | I fail today | 11:55 |
| crashanddie | ~ptl_demands_PR12++ | 11:55 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ? | 11:56 |
| pupnik | my battery use shot way up for some reason.. now it is sort of normal again. mebbe i's been hacked :P | 11:56 |
| pupnik | 80-128 ma now | 11:56 |
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| * noobmonk3y lol's.... used 1.9gb of my 500mb data limit in the last 2 days... woooooooops | 12:00 | |
| TomaszD | I have 50 megabytes per month | 12:00 |
| noobmonk3y | ouch | 12:00 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | oops | 12:00 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | hope the extra mebibytes don't cost too much | 12:01 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | my quote is 200 MiB. | 12:01 |
| TomaszD | yeah, I still need to disable auto update | 12:01 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/quote/quota/ | 12:01 |
| infobot | ptl_demands_PR12 meant: my quota is 200 MiB. | 12:01 |
| noobmonk3y | naaaa, i think they will just start throtteling | 12:01 |
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| TomaszD | they don't throttle, over 50mb eats away at my monthly money quota | 12:02 |
| noobmonk3y | wohoooooooo 3 people for tomorrows n900 meetup! | 12:02 |
| noobmonk3y | well, me and 2 women.... lol :P | 12:02 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | how come you use so much? which app? | 12:02 |
| TomaszD | how's that even possible, my gf only likes the n900 because of the tvout | 12:03 |
| noobmonk3y | ptl_demands_PR12, using joiku to get my laptop online, and my mates, and a few other peoples :P - and they where watching BBC Iplayer last night on it ;) | 12:03 |
| nidO | TomaszD: introduce her to blubbels as well | 12:03 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | noobmonk3y: oh, that explains it. | 12:03 |
| TomaszD | blubbels? wth is that | 12:03 |
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| noobmonk3y | moobox does it for my missus, she loves it | 12:03 |
| noobmonk3y | TomaszD, a game | 12:04 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | TomaszD: my girlfriends also make good use of the tvout, I just watched two movies yesterday with one of them | 12:04 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | the other one didn't show up for tonight, tho | 12:04 |
| * noobmonk3y lost my tv out cable :( | 12:04 | |
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| nidO | iv been using my tv out loads | 12:04 |
| nidO | cos my stupid archos is broke :( | 12:04 |
| crashanddie | you guys have no idea how wrong this conversation sounds | 12:04 |
| crashanddie | "< nidO> iv been using my tv out loads" TOO MUCH INFORMATION | 12:05 |
| noobmonk3y | crashanddie, you are in an odddddddd mood today! | 12:05 |
| TomaszD | ptl_demands_PR12, exactly, this the best thing, I come around with a load of movies and we can play them back on the big screen, winner feature | 12:05 |
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| crashanddie | noobmonk3y: maybe I have a tumour in my humour? | 12:05 |
| noobmonk3y | quite possibly...... | 12:06 |
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| crashanddie | btw, can I just say: Community is one of the best shows in recent times | 12:08 |
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| noobmonk3y | ? | 12:09 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ¿ | 12:10 |
| crashanddie | http://www.surfthechannel.com/show/78220.html | 12:10 |
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| TomaszD | haven't seen community, but if you're looking for the best show in television history, then look no further than The Wire | 12:11 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | oh, no | 12:11 |
| TomaszD | and I don't say things like these lightly | 12:11 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | sorry, no other show for getting me hooked | 12:11 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | can't waste MORE time on shows!!! | 12:12 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | My SeriesFinale list is growing :P | 12:12 |
| TomaszD | it'll pass, the show will end | 12:12 |
| TomaszD | then check out The Wire | 12:12 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | TomaszD: I've heard that The Wire is the best show ever | 12:12 |
| TomaszD | it is. | 12:12 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | TomaszD: that's why I don't want to check it ut. | 12:12 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/ ut./ out./ | 12:13 |
| infobot | ptl_demands_PR12 meant: TomaszD: that's why I don't want to check it out. | 12:13 |
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| TomaszD | Is it one of those fears that if you start watching it and it'll inevitably finish? | 12:13 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Yes. I am obsessive. I can't control myself. | 12:14 |
| TomaszD | also, it spoils watching anything else... | 12:14 |
| TomaszD | it's like nothing can compare | 12:14 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I'll probably check it out some day, maybe get the entire boxed set or something | 12:15 |
| TomaszD | I was one click away from getting it | 12:16 |
| TomaszD | barely stopped myself, just too expensive | 12:16 |
| TomaszD | I'm getting the o2 joggler instead | 12:17 |
| TomaszD | :) | 12:17 |
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| trumee | anybody uses opensync for syncing N900 | 12:23 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | lbt: just got some more concrete response about that ringtone stuff | 12:28 |
| lbt | on ml ? | 12:30 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | lbt: yep | 12:33 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | well, at least it seems, I am still decided to only go further about PR1.2. :) | 12:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/ about / after / | 12:33 |
| infobot | ptl_demands_PR12 meant: well, at least it seems, I am still decided to only go further after PR1.2. :) | 12:33 |
| lbt | ah, I was watching meego-dev :) | 12:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | maemo-developers, Kate responded | 12:34 |
| lbt | ptl_demands_PR12: lets hope Robot101 catches this thread | 12:35 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | Is he also looking for this info? | 12:36 |
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| Raafat__ | Hi, all I have an idea about GSOC application and I would like to discuss it here with you. | 13:03 |
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| Raafat__ | The idea is developing an application that enables the user to search for anything by just pronouncing words, the application shall do speech recognition and then show the results to the him/her. If you have any suggestions or feedback, I would be pleased to hear it from you. | 13:04 |
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| Raafat__ | on Maemo talk somone suggested integrating social network abilities and sms and calling functions to it also | 13:04 |
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| naxu | s60 has similar functionality for making calls | 13:06 |
| naxu | perhaps some code could be re-used | 13:06 |
| naxu | feature is called: sind | 13:07 |
| Raafat__ | thanks, naxu I will look for it | 13:08 |
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| naxu | it is not easy to do speech recognition with limited cpu and in time that user wants to wait for results | 13:09 |
| naxu | but with limited amount of terms it seems to work ok | 13:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not a GSOC | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | type thing | 13:20 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a combined effort of a lot of people over years type of thing | 13:21 |
| * javispedro wonders what will happen to the overclockers thread when they finally realize they can actually change the max freq without reflashing the kernel... | 13:21 | |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: How? | 13:21 |
| javispedro | kernel cmdline | 13:21 |
| SpeedEvil | (though I'm more interested in the low end) | 13:21 |
| javispedro | well, actually, that requires flashing | 13:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | can kexec be built as a module? | 13:22 |
| javispedro | I don't think so; does that finally work btw? | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Don't ask me. | 13:23 |
| javispedro | I know a bunch of work was required to make it work for the n8x0 | 13:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I wish qemu was fast. | 13:25 |
| SpeedEvil | qemu + dragon dictate = win | 13:25 |
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| javispedro | :) | 13:25 |
| joker_89 | i know that this channel is only from maemo, but i want to know if notes in symbian can be sync? | 13:26 |
| phellarv | joker_89: nope | 13:26 |
| joker_89 | are you sure? because i can get sync only to server | 13:27 |
| joker_89 | but no server-> client | 13:27 |
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| joker_89 | phellarv | 13:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there anywhere offering bounties for apps? | 13:31 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd like to contribute small amounts towards certain apps being developed, without a project going atm. | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | For example, speech recognition, ... | 13:33 |
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| javispedro | God, tmo. They read what they like and ignore what they dislike. | 13:35 |
| * javispedro rediscovers humanity | 13:35 | |
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| javispedro | now curiously enough "optification" has become associated with a certain level of ascension applications have. | 13:35 |
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| javispedro | "non-optified" applications burn battery cycles, make your system slow, crash your phone, and corrupt your files | 13:36 |
| javispedro | "optified" applications do none of these. | 13:37 |
| javispedro | the irony here is the original definition of optification... | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 13:37 |
| javispedro | they read a bug report and grab the first set of shell commands they can run into terminal. | 13:38 |
| javispedro | even if the _next_ post tells "that's wrong, use XXX instead" | 13:38 |
| tools | hi all.. | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | HI | 13:39 |
| * javispedro stops ranting and goes try "help" someone. | 13:39 | |
| * SpeedEvil passes javispedro the flamethrower filled with bile. | 13:39 | |
| tools | I'm trying to connect my notebook to the n900 via bluetooth to share it's internet connection | 13:39 |
| tools | I thought to use pan but am not sure about the necessary steps | 13:39 |
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| tools | I'm using debian testing/unstable on my notebook | 13:40 |
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| tools | and would like to have a commandline based connection | 13:40 |
| javispedro | i think DUN is easier | 13:40 |
| tools | (in contrast to using PC Connectivity) | 13:41 |
| tools | I don't really care about dun or pan. I couldn't get dun working though | 13:41 |
| tools | I installed the package | 13:41 |
| javispedro | there's an app in extras for DUN. I never tried it though. | 13:42 |
| javispedro | ah. | 13:42 |
| javispedro | do you have another bt phone? to test if n900 or desktop is wrong? | 13:43 |
| tools | I got my notebook to send a file via obex - so basically bluetooth connection works | 13:43 |
| trumee | nobody syncs their contacts with PC here? | 13:44 |
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| tools | I think n900-wise it's all set | 13:44 |
| trumee | ofcourse we are talking about linux not windows! | 13:44 |
| tools | I wonder what I have to do on my notebook though to make it use the n900 as it's gateway | 13:44 |
| trumee | it is strange on why the syncml implementation on N900 is different to N95 | 13:45 |
| naxu | for me it worked automatically with ubuntu and network manager | 13:45 |
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| joker_89 | syncml works with notes? | 13:45 |
| tools | I don't use network manager | 13:46 |
| tools | but actually I don't even know the theoretical steps to take | 13:46 |
| naxu | yeah i understand :J | 13:46 |
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| tools | like if I have to setup an interface, a gateway or whatever | 13:46 |
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| trumee | joker_89: on N95 it didnt. only the contacts and calender worked | 13:47 |
| trumee | joker_89: are you isng opensync? | 13:47 |
| tools | there's howtos on tethering but afaiu I don't want to tether as I establish the internet connection on the n900 manually | 13:47 |
| joker_89 | no why? | 13:48 |
| joker_89 | i try to sync notes and work :S | 13:48 |
| trumee | joker_89: with what software? | 13:48 |
| joker_89 | but only mobile-> server | 13:48 |
| joker_89 | with native syncml | 13:48 |
| joker_89 | in n85 | 13:48 |
| tools | what I want is to have a networking connection from my notebook to the n900 via bluetooth which uses the n900 as it's gateway. probably have to configure nat on the n900 to make that work | 13:48 |
| joker_89 | but seems that notes database have only read only | 13:48 |
| joker_89 | because server-> client dont work | 13:49 |
| trumee | joker_89: i tried to use opensync but wasnt successfull. | 13:49 |
| trumee | joker_89: what server do you use? | 13:49 |
| joker_89 | i read that native and funambol works | 13:49 |
| joker_89 | i try it with mooha its a syncml server usning php and msyql | 13:49 |
| joker_89 | i install it on my pc and do it with my nokia emulator | 13:49 |
| joker_89 | but seems that only works in one side | 13:49 |
| trumee | joker_89: not very good then | 13:50 |
| joker_89 | i am saying this because i am programming a new notes for symbian that can sync | 13:50 |
| trumee | joker_89: i want to sync against kde addressbook which is a plain vcf file | 13:50 |
| trumee | joker_89: you mean notes only work once side, but contacts work bot sides? | 13:51 |
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| user` | hi the zoutube application doesn't play videos can this be fixed? | 13:53 |
| trumee | joker_89: does mooha sync all the fields in contacts. my worry is that the server might skip some fields in the addressbook | 13:53 |
| joker_89 | mmm | 13:54 |
| joker_89 | i try mooha because i am doing a syncml server like mooha | 13:55 |
| joker_89 | but its not a good server for calendar and contacts | 13:55 |
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| sylarpowa | hi | 13:57 |
| sylarpowa | is there any gsoc mentor? | 13:57 |
| trumee | any idea what is the best server to sync addressbook which can retain all the custom fields. | 13:57 |
| reggna | Maemo is in gsoc? | 13:58 |
| reggna | Good to know.. | 13:58 |
| joker_89 | trumee in maemo or symbian? | 13:58 |
| joker_89 | i sync with gmail now | 13:58 |
| trumee | joker_89: maemo | 13:58 |
| sylarpowa | reggna: yep | 13:58 |
| joker_89 | but maemo cant sync notes? | 14:00 |
| trumee | joker_89: i dont really care about notes. | 14:01 |
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| trumee | joker_89: only interested in contacts. | 14:03 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | i have to sync with nuevosync (sp) | 14:03 |
| C-S-B-N900 | which in turn chucks it out to gmail | 14:03 |
| C-S-B-N900 | works for me but i cant seem to get evolution to get those contacts... | 14:04 |
| joker_89 | nuevosync? | 14:05 |
| C-S-B-N900 | www.nuevasync.com | 14:06 |
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| * SpeedEvil writes v0.1 of an app to test power use of apps. | 14:13 | |
| javispedro | nice | 14:14 |
| javispedro | winmo has one of those | 14:14 |
| javispedro | using bq27xxx ? | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | running and killing app 10 times | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | afk - doing stuff in garden | 14:14 |
| javispedro | afaik on winmo they just use timer stats , seems we might have something more precise :) | 14:14 |
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| user` | is there a way with the maemo browser to go to the previus visited page without selecting it from the history list | 14:20 |
| nidO | backspace on the keyboard | 14:20 |
| nidO | as of 1.2, the back button in the browser screen will also do it | 14:20 |
| user` | thanks with the keyboard works | 14:21 |
| user` | but with the back.button I always get the history list | 14:21 |
| nidO | re-read what I said :) | 14:22 |
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| user` | I have the latest update installed | 14:22 |
| nidO | which is 1.1.1 | 14:22 |
| * Noobmonk3y moos | 14:22 | |
| user` | when will be 1.2 out? | 14:22 |
| Noobmonk3y | user`, in the year 2020 | 14:23 |
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| user` | ? | 14:23 |
| Noobmonk3y | ie nokia do not give dates | 14:23 |
| Noobmonk3y | any guess is as good as the next | 14:23 |
| user` | I see | 14:23 |
| Noobmonk3y | soon hopefully | 14:24 |
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| Noobmonk3y | ~ping | 14:24 |
| infobot | ~pong | 14:24 |
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| javispedro | Nice. | 14:26 |
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| javispedro | I've now been called both Nokia-hater and Nokia-side conspirator | 14:26 |
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| nidO | javispedro: and which is true?! | 14:27 |
| javispedro | tbh I don't know :) | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Both! | 14:28 |
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| zash | Does someone continue with a .deb based maemo dist? | 14:36 |
| * VDVsx conspires about javispedro :D | 14:36 | |
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| VDVsx | zash, maemo6 is still debian based afaik | 14:36 |
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| VDVsx | there's some efforts for meego as well | 14:37 |
| VDVsx | zash, http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Debian_Packaging_working_group | 14:37 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: hehe. another interesting thing is that the only thing that happened between me getting called a "hater" and me being called "conspirator" is the announcement of the new council :) | 14:38 |
| javispedro | I _knew_ I should not have edited my tmo signature ;) | 14:38 |
| VDVsx | lol | 14:38 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, being in the council is fun, people think that the council has a lot of inside info, that the council members are conspirators, and some times that the council members are Nokians :D | 14:40 |
| VDVsx | you'll see ;) | 14:40 |
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| javispedro | yes, I see :) | 14:44 |
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| tools | is it possible to use tethering to re-use an existing connection? | 14:46 |
| tools | all the tutorials I find for setting up tethering with pppd assume that I want to connect to a provider instead of using an already established connection | 14:47 |
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| * VDVsx notices that he still has the council IRC cloak :D | 14:48 | |
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| javispedro | yeah, seems that GAN didn't exert enough pressure to freenode guys! ;) | 14:48 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, I think only X-Fade can change that | 14:49 |
| VDVsx | ~poke X-Fade | 14:49 |
| * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind X-Fade, pokes X-Fade repeatedly, hilarity ensues. | 14:49 | |
| VDVsx | :D | 14:49 |
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| trumee | how are the contacts stored internally in N900. is it possible to retrieve that file? | 14:49 |
| javispedro | contacts are stored into a sq-lite database, but idon't remember the path from the top of my head | 14:50 |
| _berto_ | .osso-abook or something | 14:50 |
| Raafat___ | Hi, I have an idea for GSOC and I want to discuss it here. | 14:51 |
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| Raafat___ | I am thinking of developing an application that enables the user to search for anything by just pronouncing words, the application shall do speech recognition and then show the results to the him/her ... Someone in the Maemo Talk suggested adding social network abilities and sms and calling functions. | 14:53 |
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| VDVsx | Raafat___, humm, see "Pocket Jeeves" in our ideas list | 14:54 |
| trumee | javispedro _berto_, /home/user/.osso-abook, thanks | 14:55 |
| nidO | that really doesnt sound like the sort of think youll be able to knock up for gsoc, unless you're just porting something that already exists | 14:55 |
| VDVsx | true, that's a lot of work | 14:55 |
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| VDVsx | however Pocket Sphinx can help a lot | 14:56 |
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| Raafat___ | VDVsx , nid0 ... I am searching for an open source library for speech recognition ... I hope this will reduce the amount of work and make it more suitable to be a GSOC project | 14:59 |
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| * Stskeeps is really fond of talk.maemo.org after having to deal with 13 year old forum admins | 15:00 | |
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| Raafat___ | VDVsx , I am checking out Pocket Jeeves ... it looks very intersiting | 15:02 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, ahah, they kick you out ? :D | 15:04 |
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| Stskeeps | VDVsx: first forum ban in 10 years | 15:04 |
| VDVsx | OMG, lol | 15:05 |
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| lcukx200 | Stskeeps, we could get VDVsx to ban you from here too if you like ;) | 15:06 |
| VDVsx | one time I got a notice because I post a brand name in a tech forum, didn't know that was against the rules 0.o | 15:07 |
| * VDVsx still wonders how to talk about tech without brand names :D | 15:07 | |
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| nidO | well, its easy to discuss whether you prefer xxx graphics over xxxxxx or xxxxx cpu's rather than xxx! | 15:09 |
| VDVsx | :D | 15:09 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: That probably was an abusive moderator | 15:09 |
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| Stskeeps | VDVsx: otoh, it was probably not a good idea to call them idiots afterwards | 15:10 |
| * Stskeeps got a little pissy | 15:10 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:10 |
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| VDVsx | lol, see tmo is a paradise :D | 15:11 |
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| Stskeeps | all things considered, that place breeds innovation | 15:12 |
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| lcukx200 | new languages the mod doesnt know to try and get your message out? | 15:13 |
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| namus | I have taken image thru N900 camera with geotags enabled & directly uploaded to ovi page , after uploading to ovi , map location is not visible . is there a problem with my account? | 15:14 |
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| lcukx200 | namus, did you have a gps lock at the time of taking the image | 15:15 |
| lcukx200 | did you select to geotag your photos? | 15:15 |
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| namus | ya , gps info is available with my image .. if i open the image with phots application ->menu-> details -> show on map | 15:16 |
| namus | the map location is clarly visble thru nokia maps | 15:16 |
| namus | *clearly visble thru | 15:17 |
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| lcukx200 | i dunno then if the tags are on the photos and you are uploading those photos, go and have a look around your ovi settings? is it the first time you have tried or does it normally show location | 15:17 |
| Raafat___ | VDVsx, I check out Pocket Jeeves, I love it, I would like to participate | 15:18 |
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| VDVsx | Raafat___, then submit a proposal and good luck :) | 15:19 |
| namus | if only geotags are present & not gps-info , then probable map-location is visible | 15:20 |
| namus | how would i set proper ovi settings >? | 15:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Oops. Sorry for earlier spam join/part, forgot. | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | xchat - moderately active - looks like 30mA | 15:26 |
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| Raafat___ | VDVxs, I am searching for a proposal template but I can't find till now | 15:33 |
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| Raafat___ | is there a proposal template to apply for GSOC ? | 15:41 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | Raafat___, not one on one of the tmo posts? | 15:43 |
| noobmonk3y_ | VDVsx, ping | 15:43 |
| VDVsx | Raafat___, is in the GSoC site and also in our wiki | 15:44 |
| VDVsx | Raafat___, http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2010/Students | 15:44 |
| * noobmonk3y_ thanks VDVsx | 15:44 | |
| VDVsx | :D | 15:45 |
| noobmonk3y_ | :D | 15:45 |
| * noobmonk3y_ swears loudly at the n900's GPS... why can you find one part of the fix but not the other :( | 15:45 | |
| Raafat___ | thanks, VDVsx , I appreciate it | 15:46 |
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| * noobmonk3y_ grins | 15:59 | |
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| lcukx200 | noobmonk3y_, ive got the other part of your gps lock over here | 16:07 |
| noobmonk3y_ | yay! :D :D | 16:07 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lcukx200, new na,e? - uber lcukx200 ? hehe | 16:07 |
| noobmonk3y_ | name* | 16:08 |
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| lcukx200 | virgin fail | 16:08 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lol | 16:08 |
| lcukx200 | tho its just stopped flashing, its been down for longer than an aged hooker this week | 16:09 |
| lcukx200 | brb changing connection | 16:09 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | awwww | 16:10 |
| noobmonk3y_ | wb lcuk | 16:10 |
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| lcuk | thats better | 16:10 |
| noobmonk3y_ | :D | 16:10 |
| noobmonk3y_ | hmmm | 16:10 |
| noobmonk3y_ | app manager refusing to update or view catalogues | 16:10 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | hmmmm my n900's cpu is running at 40 degrees C.... joiku is a bit evil! | 16:14 |
| Shapeshifter | one day, someone might finally get around skripting the iptables magic needed for a bare and simple wlan AP solution | 16:15 |
| wired | hey guys :) im trying to run qt applications through a gentoo chroot. they work, but they wont respond to the keyboard at all. any ideas? | 16:16 |
| noobmonk3y_ | wired.... similar to the debian issue? | 16:16 |
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| wired | noobmonk3y_: perhaps, i don't know what the debian issue is | 16:17 |
| noobmonk3y_ | for some reason, press the power button so the menu appears, then return back to your app - fixes it in debian | 16:17 |
| noobmonk3y_ | (easy debian, qole's thingy) | 16:17 |
| wired | hmm lets see | 16:17 |
| noobmonk3y_ | odd fix i know, but works | 16:17 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | lcuk, 2 new builds of healtcheck today :D - one in extras devel now : | 16:19 |
| noobmonk3y_ | :D | 16:19 |
| noobmonk3y_ | healthcheck* | 16:19 |
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| lcuk | wow noobmonk3y_ you are slacking | 16:20 |
| lcuk | theres normally at least 10 | 16:20 |
| noobmonk3y_ | hehehe | 16:20 |
| noobmonk3y_ | ;) 2 good ones, better then 10 ok ones ;) | 16:20 |
| noobmonk3y_ | loadsa new info on there | 16:20 |
| wired | noobmonk3y_: that didn't work.. :) | 16:20 |
| noobmonk3y_ | wired, :( | 16:20 |
| wired | only the arrow keys work | 16:21 |
| noobmonk3y_ | :( no idea :( | 16:22 |
| * noobmonk3y_ is just going to put his joiku-on-fire-n900 in the fridge... to test the temperature readout :D | 16:22 | |
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| javispedro | good afternoon, nokia conspiracy comrades | 16:25 |
| javispedro | how's the conspiracy today? is the president already dead? | 16:25 |
| noobmonk3y_ | w0000000000p | 16:25 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lol decided which side you are on now? | 16:25 |
| * javispedro tries to check mail on the n900, but as soon as I unlock the screen it shuts down due to low battery | 16:26 | |
| javispedro | thus gets me in bad mood, thus nokia hater! | 16:26 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lol | 16:27 |
| * noobmonk3y_ only hates nokia on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays | 16:27 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: go tell about it on tmo! | 16:27 |
| lcuk | noobmonk3y_, but its a bank holiday monday | 16:27 |
| noobmonk3y_ | still a monday :D | 16:28 |
| RST38h | javispedro: tell these suckers you are buying an ipad instead! | 16:28 |
| javispedro | RST38h: did you read the part where I've been called a conspirator and a hater within a few days? :) | 16:28 |
| noobmonk3y_ | right, time for a swim :D back laters :D | 16:28 |
| javispedro | I didn't know you could so easily switch between "us" and "them"! | 16:29 |
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| * javispedro plays homer in the "us" vs "them" frontier | 16:29 | |
| javispedro | s/homer/homer simpson | 16:29 |
| javispedro | s/frontier/border | 16:29 |
| noobmonk3y_ | whats the s/ thing mean? | 16:29 |
| noobmonk3y_ | s/ boobies | 16:29 |
| noobmonk3y_ | meh doesnt do anything | 16:29 |
| javispedro | noobmonk3y_: s/regexp_to_replace/replacement_string/ | 16:29 |
| javispedro | noobmonk3y_: and the both will do it for you | 16:30 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Yes. You were even covering your trackes on Wikipedia! | 16:30 |
| noobmonk3y_ | ?!?! now that was a geek-ful?! | 16:30 |
| javispedro | s/both/bot | 16:30 |
| javispedro | noobmonk3y_: I usually intentionally skip the last / since I think the bot introduces too much noise | 16:30 |
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| javispedro | noobmonk3y_: with the .. uh, "big" number of typos per second I make that's quite a lot of noise ;) | 16:31 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: I am SO evil. You cannot even imagine when I tried to correct wikipedia about the partition layout! | 16:32 |
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| *** JLP_ is now known as JLP | 16:33 | |
| * Arkenoi found several "magic" spots in St Petersburg Megafon 3G networks where active data connection consumes more power than charger may provide | 16:34 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: the longer you stay on tmo, the eviller you get | 16:34 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Ask GeneralAntilles: he know ALL about it | 16:35 |
| javispedro | but the General appears evil even to me! ;) | 16:35 |
| javispedro | btw you're evil too RST38h, you're not working on VGBA hard enough! evil! | 16:36 |
| nidO | sigh bitch girlfriend | 16:36 |
| nidO | just blew away my blubbels highscore by like 1100 :< | 16:36 |
| * RST38h worships the tentacled One, as a proof | 16:36 | |
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| javispedro | that's the most evil evilness in the eyes of tmoers: not allowing them to play pokemon. | 16:37 |
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| * javispedro notes that someone now stated as fact that cpufreq is disabled when connected to charger | 16:38 | |
| javispedro | will see how long does that stand until it gets magically converted in "the truth" | 16:38 |
| RST38h | Yea, the pokemon thing sounds kinda silly | 16:38 |
| RST38h | why not play it on a real GBA? | 16:39 |
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| javispedro | You Got Ten Evil Points. | 16:39 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: "because OMG, carrying two items? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm way to cool to carry two items. I mean, like two different items could ever have been designed for different purposes is just ridiculous, I will not accept that anything I posess cannot be used for the same uses" | 16:43 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders adding Maehammer to extras. | 16:43 | |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Do you think using a canned reply "Stuff it." will be considered rude by the tmo moderators? | 16:44 |
| derf | Let's resolve this using the scientific method. | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | depends on how many reports there will be | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: 1-2 reports, no, 3-5 reports, yes | 16:44 |
| RST38h | On the other hand, the lemmings have mostly moved on to PSX emulators... | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | TMO moderators have ill-defined boundaries, resulting in variable judgement calls | 16:45 |
| * toggles_w reads engadget overclocking info and does the keanu WHOA! | 16:46 | |
| toggles_w | who's running at 1GHz? | 16:46 |
| * javispedro is reminded of the engadget overclocking info, which causes his nose to bleed | 16:46 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: yes, makes me feel bad about poor smoku | 16:48 |
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| VDVsx | RST38h, "I want PSX running full speed for all games!!!" :D | 17:05 |
| VDVsx | and a pinky pony :D | 17:06 |
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| RST38h | In 1958 a B-47 accidentally jettisoned an unarmed nuclear weapon which fell and detonated on a garden owned by the Gregg family in Mars Bluff, South Carolina. The high explosive detonation created a crater 50-70 feet wide and 25-30 feet deep. | 17:20 |
| javispedro | reading slashdot, eh? | 17:21 |
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| tmdy | Yesterday I visited here | 17:31 |
| tmdy | About flashing | 17:32 |
| tmdy | やはり 失敗しました | 17:32 |
| tmdy | Also failed | 17:32 |
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| ml-mobile | tmdy: are you using an IME on the N900 for the japanese text? | 17:38 |
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| crashanddie | eh? | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | how do you "accidentally jettison" a nuclear weapon? | 17:47 |
| javispedro | oh, they did "accidentally drop" one around here too. | 17:47 |
| javispedro | there's some pictures around about some national figure "taking a bath" in the beach where they drop the bomb, just to reassure the masses. | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | national figure == bobby kennedy? | 17:50 |
| marmoute | crashanddie: in spain | 17:50 |
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| javispedro | yep | 17:51 |
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| javispedro | (in spain) | 17:51 |
| crashanddie | Sofia? | 17:52 |
| crashanddie | Felipe? | 17:52 |
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| javispedro | crashanddie: http://www.flickr.com/photos/etecemedios/237606040/ | 17:54 |
| kamui | sup Gs | 17:54 |
| javispedro | crashanddie: center guy: then spain's "information minister"; right guy: then USA ambassador to Spain | 17:56 |
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| trumee | 3rd day of new N900 and one speaker seems to have died | 18:00 |
| trumee | sound is only coming from one speaker | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | oh really? | 18:00 |
| javispedro | hey, that happened to me. | 18:00 |
| trumee | could it be a software problem | 18:00 |
| haltdef | :o | 18:00 |
| javispedro | trumee^^ | 18:00 |
| crashanddie | That is something I couldn't have been able to understand from your first statement | 18:01 |
| javispedro | trumee: at the end I found out it was hw problem, had to send in for repair. | 18:01 |
| trumee | javispedro: is this a hardware issue? | 18:01 |
| trumee | is it common? | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | "One speaker seems to have died. Sound is only coming from one speaker" <-- you don't say? | 18:01 |
| javispedro | trumee: I don't think it's common, so far I only remember it happening to me :( | 18:02 |
| trumee | javispedro: hopefully i will get a replacement. i am still under 14 day warranty | 18:02 |
| javispedro | trumee: you might want to play a bit with the headphones plug (plug something then unplug) before sending it back | 18:02 |
| javispedro | (note that my problem wasn't related to the headphones plug though) | 18:03 |
| trumee | javispedro: is it worth reflashing? | 18:03 |
| javispedro | trumee: yes, also ensures you don't leave personal data before sending it back. | 18:03 |
| javispedro | trumee: but it didn't help me. | 18:03 |
| trumee | exactly, i dont want to send my personal stuff. | 18:03 |
| trumee | i guess i can use pc suite to download my contacts? and then reflash it? | 18:04 |
| javispedro | or use builtin backup application | 18:04 |
| trumee | javispedro: oh! did not know about built in backup. how does it work? | 18:04 |
| javispedro | It works best, other than paper and pencil. | 18:04 |
| javispedro | trumee: you launch it, hit backup :) | 18:04 |
| trumee | javispedro: ok :) | 18:05 |
| javispedro | trumee: either back to an sd card, or move the resulting file to your computer | 18:05 |
| trumee | backing it up now | 18:06 |
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| trumee | how do i factory reset it afterwords? | 18:06 |
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| javispedro | ~flashing | 18:06 |
| infobot | from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 18:06 |
| trumee | javispedro: will it format the inbuilt user partition as well? | 18:07 |
| javispedro | if you flash both the "normal" firmware (the rootfs) and the emmc, then yes. | 18:07 |
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| trumee | javispedro: yes, that is what i want. | 18:08 |
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| * noobmonk3y waves | 18:11 | |
| frosty` | hi noobmonk3y | 18:11 |
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| frosty` | :) | 18:11 |
| noobmonk3y | hey frosty` :D | 18:11 |
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| trumee | javispedro: the backup tool restores the settings as well? | 18:18 |
| javispedro | trumee: should | 18:19 |
| javispedro | specially for core/builtin apps | 18:19 |
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| wired | hmm it seems that the keyboard works in qt menus but not qt text fields | 18:21 |
| Chiku | does someone use skype ? do you get spams ? | 18:28 |
| Chiku | how to avoid skype spams? | 18:28 |
| frosty` | Chiku: you can change a setting to get messages from only your contacts | 18:29 |
| jcrawford | Chiku, don't use skype :) | 18:29 |
| jcrawford | j/k | 18:29 |
| frosty` | oh, hi jcrawford :P | 18:29 |
| jcrawford | morning frosty` | 18:29 |
| frosty` | morning :) | 18:29 |
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| Chiku | frosty`, it is already only from my contacts | 18:30 |
| jcrawford | Chiku, then remove that contact :) | 18:30 |
| jcrawford | why are they a contact if they are just spamming you :) remove them and they wont be able to message you | 18:30 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, so i see about 20 mA current xchat/wifi, 50-70mA with GPS on.. | 18:30 |
| Chiku | I don't have these contacts who send spams | 18:30 |
| jcrawford | so who has overclocked to 900mhz-1ghz? | 18:31 |
| Chiku | but I checked "only from my contacts" on my pc client | 18:31 |
| jcrawford | oh i thought you meant the guy spamming you was on your contacts haha | 18:31 |
| Chiku | does it depends client settings? or it's serveur settings? | 18:31 |
| jcrawford | sorry long weekend, lots of alcohol and not so much sleep :)- | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I got +30mA - based on joining 10 channels for 2 minutes - then killing xhcat for 2 mins - repeating for 10 * | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: the phone also discharged all the way with vdq=1 - sw reset due to low bat I assume - and diddn't log new cap. | 18:32 |
| ShadowJK | Well mostly my lower numbers for GPS that I wanted to point out | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I'll check it outdoors in a bit | 18:32 |
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| Chiku | frosty`, ok it's client setting | 18:34 |
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| frosty` | Chiku: ah, okay | 18:34 |
| Chiku | by default pc client "only from my contacts" | 18:36 |
| Chiku | but by default on n900, it's "all people" | 18:36 |
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| Chiku | does skype video work? | 18:47 |
| Chiku | I tried with gmail video it works but what about skype? | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | no | 18:47 |
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| Chiku | ShadowJK, did you try video with gmail? | 18:48 |
| ShadowJK | no | 18:48 |
| Chiku | wonder if it's possible to use video chat with backside camera instead of the front one | 18:49 |
| _llll_ | i dont think many people want to video chat your arse | 18:49 |
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| sylarpowa | VDVsx: hi, I have seen your comment on my gsoc project draft, what do you think about it? | 18:51 |
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| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, W00000000000p! | 18:51 |
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| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, hey! | 18:53 |
| noobmonk3y | hey hey :D - lots up h/c updates today! | 18:53 |
| * MohammadAG wonders why noobmonk3y doesn't have his own repo | 18:54 | |
| noobmonk3y | hehehe | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG | you can upload 1 package each minute if you do :P | 18:54 |
| noobmonk3y | good point ;) | 18:54 |
| noobmonk3y | still trying to figure out how to get a decent app list | 18:55 |
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| MohammadAG | BLINKING YELLOW ! | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | third party, meh | 18:56 |
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| noobmonk3y | ? | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | zoutube was updated, hope it works with the new youtube | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG | expected PR1.2 :P | 18:56 |
| noobmonk3y | Jaffa, .... when you did catorise, did you do it in perl for a reason, or is that just the best way to get the apps installed etc? | 18:57 |
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| noobmonk3y | 1.2.1? | 18:57 |
| noobmonk3y | :) lol | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, maybe he knows perl better :) | 18:57 |
| noobmonk3y | very true, and expecting that answer | 18:58 |
| noobmonk3y | but he is also cleverererer than me and may be able to help my feeble mind ;) | 18:58 |
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| andrewfblack | a few more posts like http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=595111&postcount=15 and I will just mail Quim my N900 back | 19:01 |
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| * joga does not get it | 19:03 | |
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| andrewfblack | what don't you get joga ? | 19:05 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack, there are ****s, just ignore them | 19:05 |
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| joga | andrewfblack: well, I don't know who festivalnut is and what relevance that post has :) | 19:06 |
| andrewfblack | MohammadAG: Seems people like that are taking over t.m.o now and days | 19:06 |
| woodong50 | hi | 19:06 |
| woodong50 | anyone there | 19:07 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack, noticed that, read the Goodbye N900 thread and saw a lot of them... | 19:07 |
| andrewfblack | joga: the relevance to me and that post is I an the designer of the minimalist theme and I don't know who he is either but I just get tired of people complaining about something but not getting suggestions on whats wrong with it or being willing ot fix it them self | 19:07 |
| joga | andrewfblack: ok, I see. I wouldn't worry much about it, people can be very insensitive over the net | 19:08 |
| andrewfblack | MohammadAG: I didn't even bother reading that thread maybe I will now | 19:08 |
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| MohammadAG | andrewfblack, don't, it's just full of the normal N900 vs iPhone stuff, and someone's dramatic story of why he got an iPhone over the N900 | 19:08 |
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| MohammadAG | he's obviously a troll, since 1. he doesn't have an N900 2. he joined the site to say how good his unshipped iPhone was. | 19:09 |
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| zeq | Hi guys, I've been playing with the openvpn applet, by default it won't "redirect-gateway" due to the fact the gprs default route doesn't have a gateway address defined. Ideally the API should pass the gateway address to "/etc/gprs/icd-gprs-up.sh", but it's easy enough to get the gateway from the P-t-P interface address so I modified it to do that. It's also handy to have a script set up dnsmasq for the vpn tunnel which I've also got wo | 19:09 |
| zeq | rking. Should I just open buzgilla bugs and post my patches? | 19:09 |
| ShadowJK | I think since minimalist is kinda "broken" right now, they're using the maemo.org theme, and that one has the right half of pictures missing, as well as content that doesn't word-wrap and just gets cut off (the page numbers for example), as well as the right hand menu column that makes the actual content fill only like 60% of your N900's screen once you scroll down | 19:10 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack, maybe there should be a new forum that doesn't get announced on tmo :) | 19:11 |
| woodong50 | byvb | 19:11 |
| ShadowJK | and on the other parts of maemo.org website some buttons only work if you're https:// and some only work if you're http://, and some stuff links to www.maemo and www.maemo leads nowhere after the server move.. | 19:11 |
| ShadowJK | lots of tiny things that make actually using maemo.org a bit painful :) | 19:12 |
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| andrewfblack | ShadowJK: how is Minimalist broken? | 19:20 |
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| andrewfblack | only have one bug reported and it is a minor one | 19:21 |
| ShadowJK | jump to first post doesn't work | 19:22 |
| ShadowJK | first new* | 19:22 |
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| ShadowJK | It's like possibly one of the key feature you need to browse :P | 19:22 |
| FlavioFerreiraBR | Someone will try the GSOC EbookReader ? | 19:23 |
| ShadowJK | unless the cause was found and fixed by now, I only tested it last week :) | 19:23 |
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| slonopotamus | 'cyliders' on sd card is really impressive :) | 19:28 |
| slonopotamus | s/lide/linde/ | 19:29 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: 'cylinders' on sd card is really impressive :) | 19:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | FlavioFerreiraBR: IMO tehre is very little wrong with fbreader | 19:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | FlavioFerreiraBR: It could perhaps do with some tweaking - 2/4 orientations have issues with where the 'back to menu' button pops up. | 19:34 |
| dmj726_n900 | are there python bindings for gdigicam? | 19:34 |
| thenktor | hi, is there something similiar for maemo: http://code.google.com/p/websmsdroid/ | 19:35 |
| * SpeedEvil discovers that you get sort-of-OK stereo by balancing the n900 on your head. | 19:35 | |
| tmdy | please tell me what is mean "SU_VERIFY_COMMS_REQ timed out." | 19:36 |
| cehteh | Nokia-N900-02-8:~# swipl --version | 19:38 |
| cehteh | SWI-Prolog version 5.6.50 for armel | 19:38 |
| slonopotamus | SpeedEvil: :D | 19:38 |
| cehteh | wtf .. which packages uses prolog? | 19:38 |
| joga | prolog could prove useful when confronted with a logic puzzle on the go! | 19:38 |
| javispedro | cehteh: lol, the open hw manager | 19:38 |
| cehteh | haha | 19:38 |
| javispedro | cehteh: good find. | 19:38 |
| javispedro | something to talk about | 19:39 |
| cehteh | i am old fart prolog programmer, but really didnt expected a prolog on my device by default | 19:39 |
| javispedro | "the N900 uses prolog for hw management" ;) | 19:39 |
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| javispedro | " A dependency resolver plugin for OHM." :P | 19:40 |
| * MohammadAG wonders if there's a way to download the 1.1.1 SDK | 19:40 | |
| cehteh | is this move-microb-engine-to-emmc reasonable safe? | 19:40 |
| * pupnik tries switchin to 3g | 19:40 | |
| cehteh | my rootfs really needs some space badly | 19:40 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: you don't need the entire 1.1 sdk, but just the 1.1 rootstrap; that should be avail in tablet-dev site somewhere. | 19:40 |
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| * cehteh just doing that | 19:41 | |
| SpeedEvil | hmm. | 19:41 |
| cehteh | at worst microb breaks :P | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Killer ipad app. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: at worst you get a reboot loop as the watchdog kicks in | 19:42 |
| * javispedro wonders why all the people who know how to patch the kernel to allow for overclocking tend to say "be careful, please don't."; but all the people who DON'T know how to patch the kernel are the ones saying "overclock is fine! gimme! I don't believe what you say!" | 19:42 | |
| cehteh | means at worst i have to reflash | 19:42 |
| flux | speedevil, I think it's better expressed as "iPad killer app"? | 19:42 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, thanks, will check it right now | 19:43 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: actually, do you have the pr1.2 sdk installed? | 19:43 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: try downgrading specific packages, to see if the older ones are still on the repos | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, still installing | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0//i386/ | 19:44 |
| MohammadAG | only files there seem to be modified on 1/4 | 19:44 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Is 720 the highest officially supported speed for the variant in the n900? | 19:45 |
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| MohammadAG | <The_Freak_Magnet> you can do a /wallops GregoryRasputin for sale $10.01 if you like | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: where officially supported = chip is supposed to run at that speed - but not warrantied in n900 | 19:45 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: I don't know. 3430 datasheet requires NDA, technical manual is public but that information is removed. | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | oops | 19:45 |
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| kirma | I thought 3530 is identical with 3430, but sure I can't be certain | 19:46 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I think this is it http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0//i386/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0_i386.tgz | 19:46 |
| MohammadAG | since it has the same apt version as PR1.1.1 | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: ah - k | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: have you investigated nda? | 19:47 |
| cehteh | these blendtec blenders are awesome | 19:47 |
| javispedro | kirma: there have even been differences within 3530 revisions, since there seems to be speed binned one | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i'm waiting for the first smoked n900 to calm the overclockers | 19:48 |
| kirma | yep, I'm not surprised | 19:48 |
| kirma | but it should be readable from the chip if it actually supports 720 MHz mode officially | 19:48 |
| javispedro | kirma: I have one datasheet where suggested core voltage for 720Mhz is same as 600Mhz; another one where it's not, and both of them are from the 3530 | 19:48 |
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| cehteh | Stskeeps: the big that this one daemon sticks at 100%cpu isnt fixed yet | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | cehteh: hildon-thumbnailer? | 19:48 |
| cehteh | no xinput something | 19:49 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: nope | 19:49 |
| ShadowJK | Note that the 720MHz CPU and the 600MHz CPU are both called 3530, but different part numbers :P | 19:49 |
| javispedro | there's even a 3530A around ;) | 19:49 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders on the part number in n900. | 19:49 | |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 19:49 |
| kirma | "720MHz Device Identification" on OMAP35x technical reference manual would probably be a way to see | 19:49 |
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| cehteh | well 800mht would be awesome, but there should be a cpu governour which ensures a maximal time on that level | 19:50 |
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| cehteh | maybe flash will then play without stuttering finally .. | 19:50 |
| cehteh | mhm or is flash DSP accelerated? | 19:51 |
| ShadowJK | it's not | 19:51 |
| cehteh | hey guys overclock the dsp pease :P | 19:51 |
| ShadowJK | most of the flash stutter comes from I/O anyway | 19:51 |
| ShadowJK | it eats a huge chunk of memory | 19:51 |
| flux | cehteh, apparently overclocking dsp is possible as well, but it's more difficult to benchmark it and see its stability etc, so it's not done by lehto's kernels | 19:51 |
| cehteh | i want ramzswap for my device .. have to ask t-tan if he made any progress there | 19:52 |
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| flux | I actually had ramzswap on my desktop machine for a while | 19:52 |
| ShadowJK | I don't think I've seen anything where the DSP has stuttered :P | 19:52 |
| cehteh | i have it too on my laptop | 19:52 |
| flux | but I realized it doesn't help if it just puts stuff into it at boot and never digs it back | 19:52 |
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| cehteh | currently not activated and i bought 4GB ram .. rarely needed | 19:52 |
| javispedro | btw 34xx technical reference manual is public: http://focus.ti.com/pdfs/wtbu/SWPU223A_FinalEPDF_03_17_2010.pdf | 19:52 |
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| flux | because ramzswap has not yet (has the situation changed?) added a mechanism for pushing old ramzswap pages onto disk | 19:53 |
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| cehteh | for some workloads its gold .. even with 4gb ram ... opening gitk --all on the kernel tree for example | 19:53 |
| cehteh | yeah nothing there yet | 19:53 |
| cehteh | nitin plans some improvements but compressing disk pages is higher on his list | 19:53 |
| cehteh | (reducing io by that) | 19:54 |
| cehteh | i made some suggestions to him and he slowly working on it. i thinhk its a cool project and works already pretty well | 19:54 |
| javispedro | "OMAP34xx family is composed of: OMAP3420, OMAP3430, OMAP3440-720". You can guess which one's been speed binned ;) | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 19:54 |
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| ShadowJK | whoah, cloak :) | 19:55 |
| cehteh | rootfs 227.8M 209.1M 14.5M 94% / | 19:56 |
| cehteh | woah .. some mb free :) | 19:56 |
| kirma | javispedro: hmmmm | 19:56 |
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| cehteh | and microb still working | 19:57 |
| kirma | now it would be interesting to know what's the difference in comparison to 3530 | 19:57 |
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| javispedro | feel free to diff a 3500 page document :) | 19:57 |
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| kirma | yeah | 19:58 |
| kirma | 34XX document is 44 pages longer | 19:58 |
| ShadowJK | hm... cellmo-watch crashed | 19:58 |
| * ShadowJK wonders what it does and if it's important | 19:58 | |
| kirma | which is less than two percent though | 19:58 |
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| cehteh | there is some discussion on t.m.o about enabling smart-reflex, i tried that now too, lets see, anyone of you noticed and instability/difference? | 19:59 |
| ShadowJK | I had a reboot once with SR enabled | 20:00 |
| RST38h | cehteh: it is unstable | 20:00 |
| javispedro | depends on device, currently. | 20:00 |
| cehteh | some say it is, some say it is not | 20:00 |
| RST38h | cehteh: differs from person to person though, depending on the quality of your omap3 chip | 20:00 |
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| ShadowJK | I don't notice any difference in power consumption either | 20:01 |
| cehteh | after i enabled it and rebooted once the watchdog kicked in, but could be coincidence i had it running since hours now, just rebooted because of moveing the microb engine | 20:01 |
| javispedro | I have enabled it for two weeks, does not seem to crash more often, active use battery life improved sligthly (very slightly, but improved) | 20:01 |
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| javispedro | ShadowJK: does not affect idle at all... | 20:01 |
| cehteh | ok | 20:01 |
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| cehteh | well idle is already good, any improvement in the active department would be nice | 20:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ah, crap. | 20:02 |
| cehteh | i try and see | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorry, Jaffa. <_< | 20:02 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: could you check (using bq2xxxx) if there's an improvement in the cpu at 100% use case? | 20:02 |
| cehteh | i doubt for the 100% case .. but when there is moderate activity it might be nice | 20:03 |
| cehteh | reading about it.. | 20:03 |
| phellarv | On my 24th hour with 900MHz - All stable and fine. | 20:03 |
| cehteh | how it behaves in reality might be different | 20:03 |
| cehteh | phellarv: i guess you dont do much with it :) | 20:04 |
| cehteh | i have constant wlan and xchat running, gives me about 16hrs | 20:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | phellarv, short-term isn't where you have to worry. :) | 20:04 |
| cehteh | adding 2g and gps, maep i am at 4-5 hrs :/ | 20:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | phellarv, it's week 3 or month 3, etc. where it suddenly turns into a brick. :) | 20:05 |
| RST38h | cehteh: moving or stationary? | 20:05 |
| cehteh | wlan+netradio isnt good either | 20:05 |
| cehteh | RST38h: moving, but only 2g | 20:05 |
| * andrewfblack just closed t.m.o, will be a while before he returns their again | 20:05 | |
| RST38h | cehteh: does not matter, it wastes time redrawing mostly | 20:05 |
| phellarv | GeneralAntilles: Seriously doubt your predictions. | 20:05 |
| RST38h | andrewfblack: could you please roll out the minimalist theme update first? | 20:06 |
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| cehteh | RST38h: maep seems at least less power hungry for redrawing than mapper | 20:06 |
| RST38h | phellarv: it is your device | 20:06 |
| RST38h | cehteh: but of course :) | 20:06 |
| phellarv | GeneralAntilles: All mobile CPUs are downclocked way below their intended speed. | 20:06 |
| RST38h | phellarv: If you burn it, it will be your money wasted | 20:06 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: Its not up to me to roll it out I have to beg Reggie for about 2 to 3 weeks then he will roll the updates out. | 20:06 |
| ShadowJK | phellarv, hey just read the spec | 20:06 |
| RST38h | andrewfblack: omg | 20:06 |
| cehteh | phellarv: not really .. you dont want a big heatsink and fan on your mobile | 20:06 |
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| phellarv | cehteh: Of course I will have the big heatsink... | 20:07 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: Its just one more thing that drives me crasy about t.m.o | 20:07 |
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| cehteh | they are often in warm places (bag, pouch, trouser) without ventilation | 20:07 |
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| cehteh | so they have to be conservatively clocked | 20:08 |
| javispedro | kirma: interestingly enough, one difference between the 34xx and 35x TRMs is that the 34x one doesn't mention smartreflex! (4.1.2.2) | 20:08 |
| RST38h | andrewfblack: I am no longer trying to participate in maemo.org administration in any way | 20:08 |
| PhonicUK | anyone know the package name to get xterm in the Maemo emulator? | 20:08 |
| cehteh | (or good thermal management) | 20:08 |
| ShadowJK | electromigration is probably bigger concern than heat really | 20:08 |
| RST38h | andrewfblack: any plans, suggestions, or mockups appear to be futile | 20:08 |
| javispedro | maybe smartreflex is even a stub on the 34xx and we're here pursuing ghosts :P | 20:08 |
| cehteh | PhonicUK: its there by default and the package is osso-xterm | 20:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro: it is not. once you enable it, the tablet crashes :) | 20:08 |
| PhonicUK | cehteh, I've just installed the latest version and its not there :\ | 20:08 |
| cehteh | haha RST38h yours crashes? | 20:08 |
| PhonicUK | its there now though :) | 20:09 |
| RST38h | cehteh: Have not even tested it on mine, given statistics | 20:09 |
| cehteh | PhonicUK: should be there ... in the 'More...' thing | 20:09 |
| PhonicUK | there is no "More.." | 20:09 |
| PhonicUK | brb | 20:09 |
| cehteh | huh? | 20:09 |
| andrewfblack | RST38h: I'm about to give up on maemo.org altogether. I will most likly regret something in the full page blog post I just made. Its all rant and no rave. I didn't even reread it to filter my self lol | 20:09 |
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| PhonicUK | in the apps menu, there are 14 apps, not enough to get a "More.." menu | 20:09 |
| cehteh | RST38h: well i tried and so far it works, i have to watch it a few days to see | 20:09 |
| cehteh | PhonicUK: strange | 20:10 |
| PhonicUK | now ive installed osso-xterm its there though | 20:10 |
| PhonicUK | the X Terminal icon that is, not the More... | 20:10 |
| cehteh | ok | 20:10 |
| phellarv | Hmm - Where could I see the current cpu-speed - /proc/? | 20:10 |
| ShadowJK | tmo seems to be down \o/ | 20:11 |
| javispedro | party! | 20:11 |
| cehteh | phellarv: if you dont know, you shouldnt try :P | 20:11 |
| javispedro | ;) | 20:11 |
| * Stskeeps hugs andrewfblack | 20:11 | |
| andrewfblack | I needed that Stskeeps | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | np :P | 20:11 |
| phellarv | cehteh: Bahaha. | 20:11 |
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| Stskeeps | now show me that post before you regret it and erase it :P | 20:12 |
| kirma | javispedro: hmmh. anyway, differences on table of contents page count level seem to be relatively evenly spread over the manuals | 20:12 |
| javispedro | yeah, but the missing 2 pages about smartreflex have surprised me for a start :P | 20:12 |
| andrewfblack | Stskeeps: http://andrewblck.com/?p=126 don't know if I will follow through will everything I say I will do but right now I really feel like I want to | 20:12 |
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| phellarv | nvm - found it under sys | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: that sounded like a suicide threat :P | 20:13 |
| kirma | hmm | 20:13 |
| andrewfblack | Stskeeps: Suicide for my N900 maybe | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: i don't really think you're saying anything that isn't true though | 20:14 |
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| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: i'd go more into detail over what bothers you and how you think things should be fixed | 20:14 |
| * Stskeeps is a big proponent of increased moderation | 20:15 | |
| javispedro | yeah, they're sometimes really evil in tmo | 20:15 |
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| javispedro | I find that they've still not come to the realization that there's human heads behind. | 20:15 |
| nidO | I would agree that in general tmo needs more moderation of the fucktards flooding it | 20:15 |
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| javispedro | behind developers, behind Nokia. | 20:15 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm hoping the new council will do their bit to bring this community back on track, because the last council (some people excluded) seems like next to nothing got accomplished | 20:16 |
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| Stskeeps | :P | 20:16 |
| andrewfblack | The funny this is if I got pissed chunked my N900 in the drawn and said the heck with it the only ones who would care are the ones that are not bothing me | 20:16 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: well, we didn't start exactly right, with one mod down :( | 20:16 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm? | 20:16 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: saw the "who mods mods" thread? | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: ah, crashanddie's behaviour? | 20:17 |
| javispedro | yep, he got burn from that I think. | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | he was a new mod after council got added? | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | er, elected | 20:18 |
| javispedro | no, he was a mod before, iirc. | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:18 |
| PhonicUK | arg this is annoying | 20:19 |
| PhonicUK | in the Maemo emu, the normal enter key does nothing | 20:19 |
| PhonicUK | i have the use the enter key on the number pad :\ | 20:19 |
| evilrob | wow... got my N900 to boot itself just by trying to connect to an adhoc wireless network | 20:19 |
| Stskeeps | either way, you need to find people who are sufficiently balanced - power tripping people will harm things. i mean, i just got my first forum ban in 10 years because of immature mods somewhere else :) | 20:19 |
| PhonicUK | ah there keyboard layout isn't British, but theres no british option | 20:20 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: you've been banned? :) | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: i'd thumb up your post when i see it on planet, but constructive suggestions would be nice too | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: not from talk :P | 20:20 |
| javispedro | damn :) | 20:20 |
| andrewfblack | I think I will post a follow up to my rant later today with some constructive sugguestions, I just needed to rant a little first. | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: :nod: | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | i'll probably thumb up your rant, so don't take it the wrong way | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, Mer started as a rant about Maemo | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:21 |
| javispedro | andrewfblack: that's what we do continuously here: rant :) | 20:21 |
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| andrewfblack | I really am about to the point of putting away n900 if I had another phone lol | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | would be a shame, with even meego going to it :P | 20:23 |
| andrewfblack | Stskeeps: lol do we really know that it is? | 20:23 |
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| javispedro | aha. "ubifs corruption" mention in overclock thread. | 20:23 |
| PhonicUK | Does anyone build for Maemo without using Scratchbox? | 20:24 |
| VDVsx | conspirators !! | 20:24 |
| * VDVsx hides | 20:24 | |
| VDVsx | PhonicUK, you can use MADDE if you are using Qt | 20:24 |
| VDVsx | well, also works for gtk+, afaik | 20:24 |
| PhonicUK | is there a particular IDE that it ties in with? | 20:24 |
| PhonicUK | Normally I use Code::Blocks | 20:25 |
| javispedro | Qt Creator :) | 20:25 |
| javispedro | (I guess) | 20:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: have you ever had a successful learn of battery cap? | 20:25 |
| VDVsx | there's esbox at least | 20:25 |
| VDVsx | and Qt creator beta IIRC | 20:25 |
| javispedro | also the other day someone was talking about ingreting sbox1 with an ide here | 20:25 |
| javispedro | *integrating | 20:25 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, yes | 20:26 |
| ShadowJK | with the original battery :) | 20:26 |
| javispedro | after selecting the target you can do sbox invocations like "scratchbox command_to_run /full/absolute/sbox/path/to/file" | 20:26 |
| PhonicUK | *installs Qt creator* | 20:26 |
| VDVsx | there's a video in the Qt blog, of full device integration for Maemo and S60 | 20:26 |
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| PhonicUK | with QtC ? | 20:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Odd. vdq was 1, and it powered off. | 20:27 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: and no learn | 20:27 |
| VDVsx | PhonicUK, yes, but its a beta or alpha | 20:27 |
| PhonicUK | ah ok | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, it's kinda hard I think, it needs to be like 12 seconds below EDV1 threshold but above shutdown threshold (which cuts drain to 0 and makes voltage jump up) :) | 20:27 |
| PhonicUK | so probably not in the version in the main Ubuntu repo? | 20:27 |
| ShadowJK | VDQ just dropped to 0 :( | 20:28 |
| ShadowJK | too huge capacity =/ | 20:28 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | andrewfblack: that's a pity, I've seen many of you posts and I've seen how you help people (can't say I used any of your themes because I am not too keen on changing the appearance of my desktop), but the two posts you linked to on your blog seem just the regular, immature non-critical critic that often appears to makers of free (as in free speech) stuff | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: it perhaps tripped off due to incoming SMS | 20:28 |
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| VDVsx | PhonicUK, http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/03/11/qt-creator-20-alpha/ | 20:29 |
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| PhonicUK | oh nice Win32 support :D | 20:32 |
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| javispedro | youtube comment to "Will the iPad blend?" video: "This video gave me a reason to live." | 20:35 |
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| Shapeshifter | the success the ipad has is just sad | 20:40 |
| matthew_ | why? | 20:41 |
| matthew_ | it's a cool device | 20:41 |
| haltdef | no it isn't. | 20:41 |
| ShadowJK | hm.. my N900 isn't charging :o | 20:41 |
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| haltdef | :o | 20:42 |
| matthew_ | haltdef: Have you got one? | 20:42 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: see what I told you about overclocking... oh, wait. | 20:42 |
| javispedro | ;) | 20:42 |
| haltdef | no, I know it's useless without needing to touch one | 20:42 |
| trumee | javispedro: i reflashed, but the device still has my contacts | 20:42 |
| haltdef | iphone OS alone makes it pants :P | 20:42 |
| javispedro | trumee: did you reflash the emmc too? | 20:43 |
| trumee | javispedro: reflashing doesnt format the user partition | 20:43 |
| trumee | javispedro: i used RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8.203.1_PR_COMBINED_203_ARM.bin | 20:43 |
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| javispedro | trumee: that's not the emmc indeed :) | 20:43 |
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| javispedro | ~flashing | 20:43 |
| infobot | flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 20:43 |
| PhonicUK | is there any benefit to installing a custom kernel on the N900? | 20:43 |
| javispedro | trumee: follow this http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 | 20:44 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | http://opensource.com/life/10/4/five-open-source-alternatives-ipad ---> alternatives to the iPad | 20:44 |
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| javispedro | trumee: no need to reflash the fiasco/rootfs again if you did already. | 20:44 |
| frosty` | ptl_demands_PR12: i have hopes for the wepad | 20:45 |
| trumee | javispedro: but i restarted the device. the howoto says that the device should not be booted | 20:45 |
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| trumee | javispedro: "When flashing the eMMC content, always flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image first, then the eMMC. Do not boot up the device between the two!" | 20:45 |
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| trumee | javispedro: but the device automatically restart after flashing the rootfs | 20:46 |
| javispedro | trumee: yes, but for current firmwares you're mostly safe as long as you don't do much stuff between flashing fiasco and emmc (like installing apps) | 20:46 |
| ml-mobile | wait, the touchbook has an OMAP2? | 20:46 |
| trumee | javispedro: ok, no i havent installed any apps. | 20:46 |
| ShadowJK | ml-mobile, no | 20:46 |
| ShadowJK | ml-mobile, omap3 | 20:46 |
| ml-mobile | that site ptl linked is wrong then | 20:47 |
| ShadowJK | oh actually Gaia thinks charger is still connected | 20:47 |
| ml-mobile | also, apple likely still wins for user experience | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | touchbook had a lot of potential if the thing wasn't so immature | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:47 |
| LiraNuna | javispedro: were you the one who asked me to port GCC 4.4.3 to scratchbox? | 20:48 |
| javispedro | LiraNuna: I _suggested_ it, I couldn't ask anyone to suffer so much ;) | 20:48 |
| LiraNuna | oh I like challenges | 20:48 |
| LiraNuna | I one compiled a canadian cross compiled on Linux targeting OSX to run on windows | 20:49 |
| ml-mobile | you know, I applied some of those changes to transitons.ini and this thing actually feels more responsive | 20:49 |
| javispedro | LiraNuna: also note that cs2009q1 is already ported: http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/deb/ | 20:50 |
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| trumee | javispedro: i dont need to reflash the rootfs after flashing the emmc? | 20:51 |
| LiraNuna | what's cs? | 20:51 |
| javispedro | LiraNuna: codesourcery | 20:51 |
| trumee | javispedro: the howto suggests the alternate "Having flashed the eMMC, you should now flash the firmware of your device. " | 20:51 |
| LiraNuna | oh, that sounds safe | 20:51 |
| javispedro | trumee: do as you wish, it won't hurt, but it's not needed either. | 20:52 |
| trumee | javispedro: thanks | 20:52 |
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| * javispedro notes the wiki contradicts itself | 20:52 | |
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| javispedro | "always flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image first" <-> "Having flashed the eMMC, you should now flash the firmware of your device. " | 20:52 |
| javispedro | so, what's first: chicken or the egg? | 20:53 |
| LiraNuna | fish | 20:53 |
| LiraNuna | bo, plangton | 20:53 |
| LiraNuna | *no | 20:53 |
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| LiraNuna | javispedro: why do you think it'll be a pain to have a different GCC Version in scratchbox? | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:54 |
| trumee | javispedro: do i need to press 'u' again when flashing the emmc? | 20:54 |
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| LiraNuna | Stskeeps: care to add why? | 20:55 |
| javispedro | trumee: yes, it's mostly the same as flashing a normal image only you change the image the flash and it takes more time. | 20:55 |
| javispedro | *image to flash. | 20:55 |
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| Stskeeps | LiraNuna: because adding a scratchbox toolchain is similar to stabbing yourself with a fork | 20:55 |
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| trumee | javispedro: cheers, the instructions on emmc flash on the wiki are not complete then. | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | LiraNuna: i've done it once but it wasn't a pleasure :P | 20:56 |
| javispedro | yes, seems they're a bit rotten. | 20:56 |
| LiraNuna | Stskeeps: I love challenges | 20:56 |
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| lf_ | Anyone know if there are any examples on python-notify ? Can't find any:) | 20:57 |
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| Jaffa | noobmonk3y_: Just because it's on the device by default, and seemed sensible for quick text processing. | 21:00 |
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| Jaffa | VDVsx: Ta. Fixed. | 21:01 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Cool, my Joggler arrives tomorrow :-) | 21:02 |
| trumee | javispedro: ok the right speaker is certainly dead. The reflash did not revive it. | 21:03 |
| noobmonk3y_ | Jaffa, :D thankee! | 21:03 |
| noobmonk3y_ | Managed to piece it apart and started looking at it in python :D | 21:03 |
| noobmonk3y_ | just about remember perl :P | 21:03 |
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| Jaffa | noobmonk3y_: Didn't want to make Python a dependency for something so trivial. Although having Python as a dependency for a future GUI editor would be fine | 21:04 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | hehe good point :D - i'm more interested in a gui app dependency list etc... so list apps, see how much them + dependencies take etc.... | 21:05 |
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| trumee | Scary, after 2 days my N900 developed a hardware fault | 21:06 |
| javispedro | trumee: mine developed that after 2 months | 21:06 |
| * noobmonk3y_ 's hasn't yet! | 21:07 | |
| ShadowJK | it's best to catch faults early :) | 21:07 |
| javispedro | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357#c146 somebody's scoring points for being banned from bugzilla | 21:07 |
| povbot | Bug 5357: Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# | 21:07 |
| trumee | maybe i should return my N900 and wait for the meego device :) | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | <trumee> Scary, after 2 days my N900 developed a hardware fault | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, clearly Bugzilla registrations should be more complicated. | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | mine developed one day on 2 | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | trumee, it's better that they develop early when you haven't become completely attached and when the retailer return period is still available. | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | fixed itself after 2 months too | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | trumee, rather than 2 days after the warranty is up. | 21:09 |
| trumee | GeneralAntilles: yup, i am probably luck in that respect. | 21:09 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: what fault was that? | 21:09 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, vibration motor stopped working | 21:10 |
| trumee | GeneralAntilles: although i did spend the last two days setting it up to my liking. | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | backup, replace, restore :) | 21:10 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: crap. and it solved by itself | 21:10 |
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| MohammadAG | yep | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, what's your problem? | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | err defect* | 21:11 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: right speaker has stopped working. | 21:11 |
| MohammadAG | oh :( | 21:11 |
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| MohammadAG | doubt that'll get fixed on its own | 21:11 |
| E0x | hello | 21:11 |
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| Shapeshifter | mine has two hardware "faults" already. keyboard bezel not fitting properly at the lower end and the touchscreen having a slight and odd surface tension so that if I press a tad harder then neccessary, it "clicks" inside and touches the lcd making scary looking ripples. | 21:11 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: i always have the speaker at maximum. could that be a problem? | 21:11 |
| Shapeshifter | I'd say the build quality is generally crap. but as expected. | 21:11 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, it should be able to handle it | 21:12 |
| E0x | i am thinking in buy a n900 today any hints , tips to take in count | 21:12 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: the sound level otherwise is so low. My N95 speakers are much louder. | 21:12 |
| microlith | E0x: what are you expecting? | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | E0x: if you have an addictive personality, you're going to have problems | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG | I think noobmonk3y got something wrong | 21:12 |
| E0x | Stskeeps: hehe why | 21:12 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: read the specs and what it can and cannot so you're not going to be disappointed | 21:12 |
| * ShadowJK usually fires up alsamixer to make the lowest sound level lower on his N900... | 21:12 | |
| MohammadAG | my CPU can't be running at 2 deg C | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | E0x: it's like the screen is made of cocaine. | 21:12 |
| E0x | microlith: useful,hackfriendly device | 21:12 |
| microlith | E0x: alright, you've made the right choice | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, everything after the 5800 doesn't have good speakers | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG | the X6 is an exception | 21:13 |
| E0x | i mean not have some manufacture or design problem in the hardware ? | 21:13 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: N97 also? | 21:13 |
| E0x | i hear something about the jack | 21:13 |
| E0x | mini-jack | 21:13 |
| javispedro | trumee: if this is the same fault as I got, you'll also note the maximum speaker volume is pretty low | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, yep, I sold mine | 21:13 |
| trumee | E0x: you mean usb? | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG | the N97 that is | 21:14 |
| microlith | E0x: Some people had issues with the USB jack, I've h ad mine since december and have had no isues | 21:14 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: some had it falling out. should covered by warranty of course. | 21:14 |
| E0x | heh | 21:14 |
| trumee | javispedro: yes, exactly. The speaker level has become low now. i was surprised by that. | 21:14 |
| E0x | microlith: ok so is question of luck or random issues ? | 21:14 |
| E0x | trumee: yes , sorry | 21:14 |
| javispedro | trumee: and even distorted, but ignore that and get a replacement. | 21:14 |
| trumee | javispedro: yup, i am going to take it to the shop tomorrow. | 21:15 |
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| microlith | E0x: random issues probably | 21:15 |
| E0x | cool i will go for it | 21:15 |
| MohammadAG | trumee, I think the N97's speakers are the same as the N900's | 21:15 |
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| trumee | javispedro: funny thing i noticed, that the device remembered the date after a reflash. guess it picked it up from hardware clock. | 21:16 |
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| E0x | n900 coming with the lasted firmware/maemo update ? | 21:16 |
| E0x | or i need check the version and check for update ? | 21:17 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: but you are aware it lacks some features *some* feel to be very important, like, say, custom ring tones per contact or stuff like that | 21:17 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: mine came with the latest at the time | 21:17 |
| ShadowJK | USSD, MMS, Video Calls | 21:17 |
| trumee | E0x: i bought mine two days ago. the firmware wasnt the latest one. | 21:17 |
| microlith | E0x: dunno, if it doesn't it'll prompt you | 21:17 |
| Shapeshifter | ussd is fixed in pr.1.2 isn't it. | 21:17 |
| ShadowJK | pr 1.2 isn't out | 21:17 |
| E0x | Shapeshifter: i can live without that kind of stuff , i don't use it in my iphone | 21:17 |
| E0x | so | 21:17 |
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| Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: but it will be, some day ^^ | 21:18 |
| trumee | E0x: you are moving from iphone to N900, good one there! | 21:18 |
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| ShadowJK | Shapeshifter, maybe | 21:19 |
| ShadowJK | Shapeshifter, but I would not base my purchase decisions on future expectations that might or might not come true | 21:19 |
| E0x | trumee: yes , i drowned my iphone few months ago | 21:19 |
| Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: true that. | 21:19 |
| E0x | i feel the iphone limit | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Isn't USSD coming in 1.2 | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | (and sort-of-there with ussd-widget, as is mms with fmms) | 21:20 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: the n900 doesn't scroll as smoothly in most apps. | 21:20 |
| Shapeshifter | it's definitely usable but jerky depending on your standards of smoothness. | 21:20 |
| E0x | i spend 10% of the itme scrolling | 21:20 |
| E0x | so | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there are community pkgs for USSD and MMS | 21:21 |
| E0x | what is USSD ? | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | and yes, the hw seems to have issues with speakers at max volume. That's why they implemented a special PA dynamic compression - seems the amp can blow the speakers | 21:21 |
| javispedro | *#133# | 21:21 |
| javispedro | ^^ | 21:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | E0x: what *I* love about it is: a) hacking in practically any language I want using any lib or toolset as long as it compiles on ARM, b) the emulators + keyboard, like vgba, snes, c) nice instant-messaging integration imo, d) *awesome* screen | 21:22 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: is that what happened to my device. I had the device set to max volume for the past two days and one speaker blew off | 21:23 |
| E0x | Shapeshifter: i like that ! | 21:23 |
| javispedro | trumee: no, as he said, there's quite heavy software protection for it | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: possibly. or you simply got a weak component which can happen all the time | 21:23 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: and the good linuxy stuff like sshd | 21:23 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: you can even x2x onto the n900 and stuff like that. | 21:24 |
| javispedro | aha, iphone os 4.0 announced | 21:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | multitasking? | 21:24 |
| javispedro | nothing public, more on the 8th | 21:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | who cares? | 21:25 |
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| javispedro | the entire world, unfortunately :( | 21:25 |
| javispedro | yet again I won't be able to read any non-apple new in my rss feeds tonight :( | 21:25 |
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| E0x | Shapeshifter: hmm will useful if vpnc work | 21:25 |
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| javispedro | (I am to blame here for choosing so horrible feeds) | 21:25 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: it does for me | 21:25 |
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| E0x | nice ! | 21:26 |
| Shapeshifter | E0x: someone wrote a status-area applet but that one is a bit daft. you're invited to improve it (e.g. it should save the password and stuff) | 21:26 |
| E0x | i not that good programing but i want do some play with it | 21:27 |
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| trumee | Shapeshifter: is there pptp support? | 21:28 |
| kamui | did someone explain what ussd was? | 21:28 |
| kamui | I miseed that | 21:28 |
| MohammadAG | it's used to check credit on some operators | 21:28 |
| MohammadAG | as well as other things | 21:28 |
| kamui | oh | 21:28 |
| MohammadAG | *#(insert number)# - send | 21:28 |
| trumee | kamui: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unstructured_Supplementary_Service_Data | 21:28 |
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| Shapeshifter | trumee: no idea but "why not"... | 21:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | E0x: N900 maemo is a quite standard linux system for all you usually care about. If you're happy with a desktop linux, you'll love the N900. If you want a are looking for a nifty smartphone, you better get a iPhone | 21:34 |
| noobmonk3y | ~ping | 21:34 |
| infobot | ~pong | 21:34 |
| E0x | DocScrutinizer: i was a iphone user | 21:34 |
| E0x | iphone is for ppl who think need a smartphone | 21:35 |
| E0x | or want say that have a smartphone | 21:35 |
| noobmonk3y | its not a smart phone, but is a clever phone | 21:36 |
| E0x | but in my personal view i need what i think n900 is | 21:36 |
| E0x | a table internet with phone feature | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | E0x: yep | 21:37 |
| adisbladis | I got an N900 because i wanted a small computer | 21:37 |
| Appiah | I see it as a small netbook , with phone feature | 21:37 |
| adisbladis | The phone features are a bonus | 21:37 |
| * joga really likes it now that easydebian is installed | 21:38 | |
| adisbladis | joga: Easydebian? | 21:38 |
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| joga | adisbladis: you know, the one in Extras, where you download a debian filesystem image and can chroot there and run software in it | 21:38 |
| trumee | guys, anybody remember what was the initial price of N900 when it came out? | 21:39 |
| joga | adisbladis: so I can now run maemo progs *and* debian progs and maintain them separately | 21:39 |
| noobmonk3y | depends on the country | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, e.g N9x phones have cute voicedial feature, N900 doesn't | 21:39 |
| adisbladis | 6000SEK was the initial price | 21:40 |
| anotnac | 500GBP in UK | 21:40 |
| adisbladis | Here in sweden if i recall correctly | 21:40 |
| trumee | anotnac: so it hasnt dropped much in price then. | 21:40 |
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| Arkenoi | thanks to "inofficial" import from emirates n900's are available here for just $620 | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: 599EUR on german Nokia webshop | 21:41 |
| MohammadAG | umm | 21:41 |
| MohammadAG | the screen isn't pressure sensitive right? | 21:41 |
| anotnac | i have seenits dropped by £20 on nokia site, i;m certain you can get them much cheaper from other places | 21:41 |
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| adisbladis | I bought mine used (the guy had used it for a day) for 4200SEK (about 430 euros) | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: huh? | 21:42 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, not sure how I can explain this but | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | open the menu | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | tap more | 21:42 |
| E0x | somebody experience some sip phone | 21:43 |
| E0x | with n900 ? | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG | hold an icon's app and move a bit, then reduce pressure without removing your finger/stylus, the glow will fade a bit but it stays there | 21:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | E0x: works great here | 21:43 |
| trumee | E0x: i am a regular user of sip. | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG | app's icon* | 21:43 |
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| trumee | E0x: works great, but eats cpu like anything | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | MohammadAG, resistive is pressure sensitive. | 21:43 |
| E0x | a question i can have a sip phone open and if some call in i get wake ( the phone ) | 21:43 |
| E0x | like normal phone call | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | MohammadAG, it WORKS based on pressure. ;) | 21:44 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i find pulse audio running at 35% with sip. is that normal? | 21:44 |
| E0x | i mean some background state or something | 21:44 |
| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, lol didn't think of it that way | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: well the ts is capable to give a 'pressure' value - at least in hw | 21:44 |
| E0x | trumee: don't think | 21:44 |
| E0x | 35% is something wrong there | 21:44 |
| MohammadAG | I'm wondering if apps like GIMP can support it | 21:44 |
| trumee | E0x: sip calls work the same as normal calls on N900 | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: no idea if it's exposed via API and if it's used | 21:44 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: gtk apps can read it, but requires some work (I doubt the launcher does it) | 21:44 |
| E0x | trumee: so i can have my phone "sleep" | 21:45 |
| E0x | and the call in normal | 21:45 |
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| trumee | E0x: although, there is no Message Waiting Indicator support (which sucks) | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, well try what I said a couple of lines above :) | 21:45 |
| trumee | E0x: dont understand what you mean by sleep. Turned off? | 21:45 |
| E0x | lock/sleep | 21:45 |
| E0x | the same state that iphone get when you press the lock button | 21:46 |
| E0x | ( screen off , etc ) | 21:46 |
| MohammadAG | E0x, lock switch is on the side | 21:46 |
| trumee | E0x: oh yes it responds to sip calls like normal calls | 21:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: though you're basically right, in practice first instance you are not. R-TS is 'working on pressure' like a pushbutton does | 21:46 |
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| E0x | trumee: cool | 21:46 |
| E0x | i hope ( and i think all n900 owners ) that meego get n900 support too | 21:47 |
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| E0x | meego look promise | 21:47 |
| trumee | E0x: but as i said i have noticed that cpu usage is high for sip calls | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: 2nd thought you can read out the area*pressure from r-ts, though it's not very exact | 21:47 |
| E0x | trumee: ok | 21:47 |
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| E0x | thx | 21:47 |
| trumee | E0x: that is the reason i delayed buying my N900 until i was sure meego will be supported | 21:48 |
| woodong50 | n900 is other with n810 | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | microb does distinguish between finger and stylus this way, at least our microb guru told me so | 21:48 |
| trumee | E0x: with the latest meego update, my worries have been settled :) | 21:48 |
| javispedro | er... n900 doesn't necessarily support meego at this point. | 21:48 |
| woodong50 | i am using n800 | 21:48 |
| E0x | trumee: heeh yes | 21:48 |
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| trumee | javispedro: why not? it is a reference phone for meego. | 21:49 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: 770/n8x0 used that to decide wheter to launch finger keyboard or stylus keyboard | 21:49 |
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| Terje | trumee, only a development device. | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: E0x: why do you *need* meego?? o.O | 21:50 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: because i need an all singing and dancing Qt phone | 21:50 |
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| javispedro | Qt comes to Maemo with PR1.2 | 21:51 |
| anotnac | lol found this funny look at link http://twitter.com/chansearrington/status/11654840996 | 21:51 |
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| Shapeshifter | trumee: I'd say meego will never be "supported" by the n900. there will likely be usable but possibly incomplete builds but I'd say it's almost certain that nokia will not support it officially. | 21:51 |
| Shapeshifter | [/specualtion] | 21:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's nothing meego could do better than maemo now, and that isn't going to change for let's say at least 12 months | 21:52 |
| javispedro | (and in fact might never change depending on n900+1 hw) | 21:52 |
| Shapeshifter | I'd rather like to see ofono on maemo 5 instead. | 21:52 |
| Shapeshifter | and stuff like that. Just replace the dumb nokia closed bits with good stuff on maemo :) | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: ack | 21:53 |
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| Chiku | meego benefit is for software portage with bigger community | 21:54 |
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| trumee | I want the ui to be open. it is a shame to ask the Nokia devs to change ui everytime and leave it to their whims and fancies | 21:54 |
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| trumee | Addressbook, Calendar should be open. | 21:54 |
| trumee | and i hope meego will accomplish that. | 21:55 |
| Shapeshifter | trumee: which hasn't got much to do with meego specifically. | 21:55 |
| Shapeshifter | trumee: you're invited to install any open calendar or addressbook right now. | 21:55 |
| Shapeshifter | on maemo. | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | all this are bit NOT EXISTANT in meego for now, and it will take a looong time until it changes | 21:55 |
| trumee | Shapeshifter: but these will not be integrated into the system like the official ones. | 21:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: what makes you think they will, once there's any such app like dialer or calendar in meego? | 21:57 |
| Shapeshifter | trumee: as DocScrutinizer said, it will be *long* until there will be anything you're dreaming of available in meego. | 21:57 |
| javispedro | calendar will probably not be open in meego, unless some breakthrough happens | 21:57 |
| joga | btw. how should one be able to click on links in the terminal while having virtual keyb enabled and hw keyb closed? it briefly shows the copy/open popup and then the virtual keyboard | 21:57 |
| javispedro | meego handset ux, that is. | 21:57 |
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| joga | once I managed to get the copy/open without triggerin the vkbd | 21:57 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: mh? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: E-ADDR | 21:58 |
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| microlith | javispedro: if it's not going to be open, why would it be in meego and not a vendor-supplied image? | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ Shapeshifter / trumee | 21:58 |
| javispedro | joga: works here, how do you try to get to the copy/open popup? | 21:58 |
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| joga | javispedro: I just tap on a link | 21:58 |
| javispedro | microlith: yeah, forgot about the "handset ux". | 21:59 |
| trumee | what is ux btw? | 21:59 |
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| microlith | user experience | 21:59 |
| trumee | :) | 21:59 |
| joga | javispedro: but do you have virtual keyboard enabled in settings? | 21:59 |
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| javispedro | joga: no, sorry, you're completely right. | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | and pondering about waiting for 'meego device' or rather get a N900 - c'mon that's outright silly | 22:00 |
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| jacquesdupontd | hi guys | 22:00 |
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| jacquesdupontd | i'm with a friend on the n900 and he is searching a viewer and also editor for all office suite files like oOO is someone having an idea ? | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | User interfaXe | 22:00 |
| Shapeshifter | it's funny how people - "customers" - thought they've been adressed when the first meego images were released :D | 22:00 |
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| jacquesdupontd | that would be very cool cause he is leaving and i would like to find him that before he leaves | 22:01 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: one option is easydebian which includes ooo | 22:01 |
| Shapeshifter | "zomg meego is out".... "huh this sucks it has no features, we're being mocked". They don't really get open source, do they. | 22:01 |
| joga | not that the device is superb for using it... | 22:01 |
| jacquesdupontd | easydebian is a totally different os on the n900 ? | 22:01 |
| jacquesdupontd | joga | 22:01 |
| smhar | Docscrutinizer, I just logged in... so excuse my ignorance but.. why is is silly? many are wondering the same | 22:02 |
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| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i guess the question becomes important when somebody is buying a device close to the release date of the next device. If somebody bought N900 last december it wasnt important, but if somebody is buying N900 in next two months it is an important question to ask. | 22:02 |
| jacquesdupontd | joga is it like ubuntu that we can install on the n900 | 22:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | trumee: huh. so you think a meego device is coming out anytime soon? | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | people are probably confusing harmattan with the current meego release | 22:03 |
| trumee | Shapeshifter: what do you say by end of the year? | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | smhar: if you're considering to get a device next 5 years, then you probably don't want a N900 right now. If you need a device next 6 months, then you're out of luck with any 'meego device' | 22:03 |
| Shapeshifter | trumee: I'm not up to date, but where does it say this? | 22:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | trumee: and do you remember the n900 release schedule? | 22:03 |
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| trumee | Shapeshifter: no i dont. | 22:04 |
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| Shapeshifter | they were like "it's out october 1st". I got mine mid-february. | 22:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns | 22:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 22:04 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: :) | 22:04 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: bored? go give tmo a visit | 22:05 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: not exactly, but it's a debian image that makes it possible to install anything debian has, without risking messing up maemo | 22:05 |
| trumee | Shapeshifter: the next version of Nxx will not be meego? | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | EEEEEK | 22:05 |
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| javispedro | burnt and suicidal? go give tmo a visit! | 22:05 |
| jacquesdupontd | ok he just found it out on the respository | 22:05 |
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| jacquesdupontd | he is just installing it | 22:05 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: search youtube for n900 debian, there's a nice video of some guy who demonstrates it :) | 22:05 |
| joga | heh ok | 22:05 |
| jacquesdupontd | from what i just read after that we can install easily with apt-get commands | 22:06 |
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| * noobmonk3y will be back later - need beer | 22:06 | |
| jacquesdupontd | i just searched and read things about it, most ppl are installing it to run openoffice and gimp from what it seems | 22:06 |
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| joga | jacquesdupontd: that is correcy | 22:06 |
| joga | *ct | 22:06 |
| jacquesdupontd | im on debian since 7 years i should managed to do it | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | smhar: It's like "should I get a core-2 laptop, or should I wait for quantum computers" | 22:06 |
| joga | I just set up a lisp IDE yesterday | 22:07 |
| smhar | docscrutinizer, most people I know are thinking it this way; If I buy an N900 within the coming 6 months I am afraid a meego device will be release then and all the work from Nokia, and eventually the community will shift to it. since nobody -almost- want to support a dead end device | 22:07 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: the eternal question in computing. they were joking about that 20 years ago in public TV. | 22:07 |
| jacquesdupontd | do we need to restart the n900 or is easy debian launchable as an os image ? | 22:07 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: reboot | 22:07 |
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| joga | jacquesdupontd: or uh | 22:07 |
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| joga | I mean, after install reboot once | 22:08 |
| joga | but no need to reboot again just to run programs | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | smhar: N900 no way will be 'dead end' when N900+1 appears. The next device actually is considered inferior to N900 by almost all N900 owners | 22:08 |
| jacquesdupontd | from what i had read here and there ubuntu was installable on the n900 that means we can also go thrue this way to instal oOO ? | 22:08 |
| jacquesdupontd | right joga ? | 22:08 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: I guess, but easydebian is really simple to use | 22:08 |
| smhar | docscrutinizer, how can they tell if it is not released yet?! | 22:08 |
| jacquesdupontd | joga that's what i was thinking when you proposed it to me | 22:09 |
| javispedro | smhar: they have heard stuff about capacicraptastic screen | 22:09 |
| jacquesdupontd | he just rebooted but nothing appeared | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | smhar: there are some details which are considered fix for next device, like capacitive touchscreen and no hw-kbd | 22:09 |
| jacquesdupontd | joga he should have a grub style thing with the choice of the os isn't it ? | 22:09 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: one tip: extracting the image takes a long time and makes the phone quite unusable while doing it (ie. unresponsive). but just wait patiently | 22:09 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer: i wont miss the next device if there is now hw-kbd. | 22:10 |
| Shapeshifter | lol no hw-keyboard, that one really is killer | 22:10 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: tell him to start deb img install, then wait for around 50minutes | 22:10 |
| joga | then reboot | 22:10 |
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| Shapeshifter | for me at least. "let's go back to tapping onto a glossy surface to write stuff" | 22:10 |
| jacquesdupontd | joga from the maemo os now he launch easy debian and it will extract it for 1 time or everytime ? | 22:11 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: once only | 22:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, /me away. smething with my laptop&vacuum ventilation starts to smell scorched | 22:12 |
| jacquesdupontd | joga in fact what he downloaded from the repo only seems to be shortcut for easy debian once the image downloaded and extracted | 22:12 |
| joga | jacquesdupontd: yeah | 22:12 |
| trumee | is it possible to use the virtual keyboard and harware keyboard the same time? | 22:12 |
| jacquesdupontd | joga if that's the case i will do it for him later cause he has to go but thx a lot for your help :) | 22:12 |
| joga | or, well, it's some script to get the image first | 22:12 |
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| joga | ok :) I'm currently in an escalator heh | 22:13 |
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| Raafat___ | Hi, all ... I want to work on Pocket Jeeves project and make a proposal to GSOC ... I want to ask a few questions about it :) | 22:13 |
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| trumee | another question, if you do a ctrl+backspace to get all the task windows, can they be selected using the hw-keyb rather than by tapping the screen? | 22:14 |
| lcuk | Raafat___, are these the sort of questions that some sort of handheld intelligent search engine could answer? | 22:14 |
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| smhar | ok.. one question... from what I read and saw.. it seems that the address book, and search facility in N900 are lacking a lot of what I want, which is available in an old 9300i communicator that I owned. how difficult it is to 'improve' this and integrate it back with the system? | 22:16 |
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| RST38h | http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/lif_wil_fig_for_cou-lifestyle-will-fight-for-country&int=-1 | 22:17 |
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| RST38h | hehe | 22:17 |
| thresh | ohai | 22:17 |
| thresh | so how many kittehs been killed today? | 22:17 |
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| b-man17 | YESS!!! Ubuntu lucid finally bootstraps on my N900 without any issues :D | 22:18 |
| trumee | smhar: addressbook is closed source on maemo5 | 22:19 |
| grishnav | what is ubuntu lucid? | 22:19 |
| b-man17 | now to get cracking on getting it to boot :) | 22:19 |
| thresh | what do you guys use to stream (ok, file-on-demand aka DLNA) video to N900? | 22:19 |
| b-man17 | Ubuntu 10.04 | 22:19 |
| grishnav | ah | 22:19 |
| b-man17 | @ grishnav | 22:19 |
| grishnav | and it boots on the n900? | 22:19 |
| grishnav | nice | 22:19 |
| b-man17 | it's Cortex-A8 optimized :) | 22:19 |
| b-man17 | not yet | 22:19 |
| smhar | trumee, so it is impossible? to have an improved addressed book in N900? | 22:20 |
| b-man17 | but it will ;) | 22:20 |
| trumee | thresh: i am using knots which is not upnp, but rather on the fly transcoder based on vlc. | 22:20 |
| grishnav | i just finally got openvpn running on my n900 | 22:20 |
| grishnav | it's quite nice | 22:20 |
| thresh | 'based on vlc' is fine for me | 22:20 |
| trumee | smhar: it is my gripe as well. but since it is closed source we are all relying on nokia devs. | 22:20 |
| thresh | oh god, theora. | 22:21 |
| b-man17 | (Cortes-A8 optimized meaning you can't run Ubuntu 10.04 on previous tablets unfortunately) | 22:21 |
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| trumee | thresh: you can get more support in #knots, but it has worked very well for me. | 22:21 |
| b-man17 | *Cortex-A8 | 22:21 |
| b-man17 | @ grishnav | 22:21 |
| thresh | trumee: thanks! i think i'll try it. | 22:22 |
| smhar | trumee, what about an improved replacement? | 22:22 |
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| trumee | smhar: dont know if anybody is developing a replacement. | 22:22 |
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| trumee | i can understand why Conversations is closed source, but why the hell is addressbook closed! | 22:23 |
| smhar | trumee, but is it possible? to have a replacement that will just 'plug in' the system and integrate with the rest? | 22:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | trumee: (taskswitcher) no kbd select. I ranted about that quite some times | 22:24 |
| trumee | smhar: no idea. it will be pointless if the replacement cannot interact with other applications seamlessly. | 22:25 |
| trumee | DocScrutinizer-8: that is a bummer. | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | (addrbook) the backend has an API. the frontend (dialer, contacts) is closed and hard to augment | 22:25 |
| smhar | trumee, the api is open and documented, right? so, for a good programmer, it should be an easy trip.. | 22:26 |
| smhar | trumee, I wish I was a good programmer, or any programmer at all :-) | 22:26 |
| trumee | smhar: no idea, DocScrutinizer-8 seems to know more. | 22:26 |
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| smhar | DocScrutinizer-8, so using the backend API, one can develop another front end -a new contacts, maybe using the same dialer- and integrate it in the system. am I right on assumption? | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | probably you could, though integration is difficult as the bits where you want to integrate the new features are closed source as well (e.g what's the use of better search or groups or anything in contacts, if you can't fully integrate that to dialer) | 22:32 |
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| MohammadAG | ~flashing | 22:33 |
| infobot | it has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG | I'm editing the eMMC section, returning it to how it was | 22:34 |
| smhar | DocScrutinizer-8, can't you just get the final number from the 'new' search and just 'pass it' to the dialer? | 22:34 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure who added the When flashing the eMMC content, always flash the FIASCO/Rootfs image first, then the eMMC. Do not boot up the device between the two! | 22:34 |
| MohammadAG | it's eMMC then FIASCO image... | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | smhar: that's actually easy | 22:34 |
| MohammadAG | oh for the love of... | 22:35 |
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| MohammadAG | it says don't reboot and has the command as flasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R | 22:35 |
| MohammadAG | the -R reboots! | 22:35 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: yup, i went through the same instructions a while ago. they suck. | 22:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | yup | 22:36 |
| smhar | DocScrutinizer-8, so what is the problem? just let the new programs do all the work and when you find the contact you want to call from new search or the new group, just pass the phone number to Nokia's dialer to do the actual dialing | 22:37 |
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| MohammadAG | trumee, fixed, I think, can you check if they're clear now? | 22:37 |
| smhar | DocScrutinizer-8, until someone replaces that as well :-) | 22:37 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: The second time it says plug usb, it doesnt mention before of removing the cable. | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | smhar: it's not impossible. you'll just face all sorts of rough edges where you have to compromise | 22:38 |
| trumee | MohammadAG: "Plug the USB cable into the N900", but the cable is already plugged in. | 22:39 |
| smhar | DocScrutinizer-8, is it also possible to 'replace' the dialer? | 22:39 |
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| MohammadAG | trumee, oh fixing | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | smhar: even more complicated (to interface all the telepathy and modem control bits) but yes, it should be possible | 22:41 |
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| trumee | smhar: you think the dialer needs improvement? | 22:42 |
| smhar | trumee, no.. just need to be open :-) | 22:42 |
| Raafat___ | Hi, all . I want to start working on Pocket Jeeves project for GSOC, I started reading tutorials for how to use SPHINX system , do you know what prerequisite should I have before starting this project ? | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | you bet it does | 22:42 |
| trumee | do any nokia devs participate here? | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | dialer is really limited, bot in functionality UI wise, and API for devels | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | try to teach it to play contact specific ringtones and you'll see | 22:44 |
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| MohammadAG | trumee, updated again, did some major changes, can you check now? | 22:45 |
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| trumee | MohammadAG: yup, clear now. thanks | 22:46 |
| smhar | if nokia has all the community ready to improve the system, in addition to its own developers, why in heaven would they release a 'very basic and limited' software, and then close it so no body can improve it? that is just crazy | 22:46 |
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| smhar | DocScrutinizer-8, many 'basic' mobile can do the contact specific ringtones !! even from Nokia | 22:47 |
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| nedko | zgold: ;) | 22:49 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | that's weird. There are no manpages on the N900, but you can install help2man, a manpage generator. | 22:51 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | smhar: I've been discussing this a lot and Kate from nokia came up with a trail I could follow | 22:51 |
| zgold | nedko: hi! | 22:51 |
| smhar | ptl_demands_PR12, which is | 22:52 |
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| MohammadAG | smhar, the basic mobiles are running an OS that's been in development as a PHONE OS for years | 22:53 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | smhar: it's in the maemo-developers mailing list, I'll paste into pastebin and show you | 22:54 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | smhar: http://pastebin.com/7H89kzd0 | 22:56 |
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| ds3 | Blasted flash on the N900 is no better then on the previous devices :( a 2.5hour MPEG video through media player - barely a change in battery... an hour of sitting on a web page nearly completely drains the battery :( | 22:59 |
| RST38h | http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/04/05/2010-04-05_nypd_arrests_dozens_after_easter_night_gang_mayhem_in_times_square_herald_square.html | 22:59 |
| RST38h | ds3: you expected it to behave differently? | 22:59 |
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| lcuk | ptl_demands_PR12, smhar - theres a tmo thread about custom ringtones and speaking the name of the caller | 23:00 |
| ds3 | RST38h: yes, I expected someone to make flash usable if they are to put it on a battery device! | 23:00 |
| lcuk | one suggestion was when using the new methods, simply set the core ringtone to a silent mp3 | 23:00 |
| lcuk | then whatever replacements come in go over the top | 23:00 |
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| E0x | ds3: then adobe is the one who have to do that | 23:00 |
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| ds3 | E0x: IMO, as it stands, flash should be banned as brown technology @!$#@!$@#$#@!$! | 23:01 |
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| E0x | true , i prefer html5 win | 23:04 |
| E0x | but that is not the case right now | 23:04 |
| E0x | and if we all need/want better flash we just need hope adobe do something | 23:04 |
| ds3 | I don't really care for which one... I just want it to not drain the battery..this is madness | 23:04 |
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| E0x | then stop saw flash content | 23:05 |
| ds3 | if you are going to legistate about all those crap and force crappy charging systems on us (i.e. the microusb thingie)...then prehaps flash should be banned entirely. | 23:05 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | lcuk: Yes, I use espeakcaller, but its technique is easy enough - just play a sound (the speech) when a certain number calls. The most difficult part from the developer was correctly configuring the pulseaudio group, I think, but nevertheless, this is quite different from the custom ringtone stuff because we should have to prevent it from playing and also control ring stop, interruption and such. | 23:05 |
| * lcuk nods | 23:06 | |
| lcuk | so essentially a fully fledged replacement callui frontend | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | in qt | 23:06 |
| Goliath23 | does anyone know how much maemo there will be in meego? it will be rpm based. right? will the gui be Qt based? | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | There will be qt | 23:07 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I didn't understand that from Kate's message | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | lcuk: this 'solution' rolls up my toes | 23:07 |
| lcuk | im taking what you say - i thought you were on about a very limited subset | 23:08 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer-8, sure, same here - but it was one possibility without too much refactoring and mucking about | 23:08 |
| lcuk | obviously needs more discussion :) | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | Goliath23, in a sense, the MeeGo API == QT | 23:08 |
| Goliath23 | but the gui will have a totally different look (i.e. the qt4.6 hildon widgets will be deprecated?) | 23:09 |
| ShadowJK | Like, it looks as if Nokia is going to rename Maemo6 into MeeGo, because Maemo6 will have same qt as MeeGo :P | 23:09 |
| Goliath23 | ShadowJK: would be cool if it would be that way | 23:09 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, does the meego day1 have any qt in it all? | 23:09 |
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| ShadowJK | lcuk, dunno | 23:09 |
| ShadowJK | it's probably there but nothing uses it | 23:09 |
| ShadowJK | I heard there was no GUI at all :) | 23:10 |
| lcuk | hopefully the api is greater than the sum of the visual parts | 23:11 |
| Goliath23 | will MADDE be reused? i really like it. in combination with qtcreator its a cool DE | 23:11 |
| Goliath23 | tried it today and it worked great.. | 23:12 |
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| style | is there easy way to add x-terminal to start with some command shortcut to desktop | 23:23 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | MADDE is difficult to use with external librarie | 23:23 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/librarie/libraries/ | 23:23 |
| infobot | ptl_demands_PR12 meant: MADDE is difficult to use with external libraries | 23:23 |
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| lcuk | o_O majority of missing miners have been pulled out from chinese mine :) | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | style: there is a kbd shortcut for xterm - see wiki about shortcuts and gestures | 23:27 |
| mece | style, ctrl-shift-x :) | 23:28 |
| mece | lcuk, wow. I wasn't expecting that. | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | At first read I thought he wanted a way to add "top inside x-term" shortcut to desktop | 23:28 |
| mece | ok.. | 23:28 |
| mece | sorty | 23:28 |
| lcuk | mece after the divers went in at start of weekend and found nothing it didnt look good | 23:29 |
| mece | sorry style. | 23:29 |
| lcuk | but from news at least 115 / ~150 are out | 23:29 |
| style | mece: ;) heh | 23:29 |
| ShadowJK | mece, no I think you can interpret it either way | 23:29 |
| ShadowJK | more punctuation might help | 23:29 |
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| mece | style, anyway something like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=409122&postcount=3 ? | 23:30 |
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| style | mece: ye | 23:31 |
| style | thanks | 23:32 |
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| * DocScrutinizer-8 sighs | 23:33 | |
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| mece | There there DocScrutinizer-8 | 23:34 |
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| trumee | Do you guys find typing '1' on the hw-kbd is a real pain | 23:37 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | do you have fat fingers? | 23:38 |
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| dmj726_n9001 | no more than 234567890 | 23:38 |
| cehteh | try entering a lot of IP addresses, thats pain | 23:38 |
| trumee | ptl_demands_PR12: probably | 23:38 |
| E0x | do 3 - 2 | 23:38 |
| E0x | 911 = 93-2,3-2 | 23:39 |
| E0x | :P | 23:39 |
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| trumee | is xchat the best irc client for n900? | 23:41 |
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| GAN900 | Or irssi | 23:41 |
| noobmonk3y | i like it :D - havnt tried others tho | 23:41 |
| GAN900 | Whichever floats your boat | 23:41 |
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| cehteh | noobmonk3y: btw for display test you better make an chessboard like pattern between the given color and black | 23:43 |
| cehteh | dead pixels are much better to see then | 23:44 |
| noobmonk3y | ahhhh on the dead pixel test? | 23:44 |
| cehteh | yep | 23:44 |
| cehteh | just looked at the healthcheck app :) | 23:44 |
| noobmonk3y | ooo should be able to do that :D | 23:44 |
| noobmonk3y | how many squares across? | 23:44 |
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| noobmonk3y | i mean for rough sizing example | 23:45 |
| cehteh | 1 pixel | 23:45 |
| noobmonk3y | lol | 23:45 |
| noobmonk3y | okies | 23:45 |
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| lcuk | and make it flash rally fast | 23:45 |
| cehteh | you need 2 alternating ones of course | 23:45 |
| cehteh | haha no static | 23:45 |
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| PhonicUK | any of you guys used QT Creator? | 23:45 |
| PhonicUK | the 2.x beta | 23:46 |
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| cehteh | draw such a pattern and make one pixel black then you see, much better noticeable than a single dead pixel | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil_ | trumee: I like it. | 23:46 |
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| SpeedEvil_ | trumee: It's not too annoying. | 23:46 |
| SpeedEvil_ | trumee: It has a few remaining issues. | 23:46 |
| lcuk | cehteh, thats a difficult one to tell - the full on color is the usual method | 23:46 |
| noobmonk3y | lol lcuk | 23:47 |
| lcuk | where would you get enough randomness to do static | 23:47 |
| trumee | SpeedEvil_: is there a version in extras-devel, i haave only used the stable version | 23:47 |
| * lcuk hasnt seen a convincing computer generated static so far | 23:48 | |
| * microlith boggles as his N900 spontaneously drops from edge and goes for the wifi | 23:50 | |
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| SpeedEvil | /dev/urandom | 23:50 |
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| trumee | goodnight guys. | 23:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | trumee: I'm using the one | 23:50 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 23:50 |
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| smhar | can someone tell me an approximate size -in MB- of one minute of skype voice call? | 23:51 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, the problem is | 23:52 |
| lcuk | ive not seen a proper tv static simulation, and most of the movie encoders cant keep u pand amke it look like carp | 23:52 |
| lcuk | make crap | 23:52 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | smhar, http://forum.skype.com/lofiversion/index.php/t62535.html | 23:54 |
| cehteh | ok smart-reflex is instable | 23:55 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: why do you want to make it? | 23:57 |
| lcuk | i dont it just reminded me of something ive pondered in the past | 23:57 |
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| smhar | noobmonk3y_, these are dsl figures, I am planning to get a 3G plan with some MB for use with N900 | 23:59 |
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