IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-11-06

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tekonivelperhaps it's a good idea to remind oneself that lesbians are into girls, no matter how many moomin cups one has ;)00:00
tekonivelbut this was not why i came here00:01
lcuklol indeed00:01
tekonivelthe reason is that i saw some people with n900s, but i didn't stab them in the head00:01
tekoniveli'm not sure what got into me!00:01
lcukwhere bouts are you? hel or outlying?00:02
tekonivellcuk: helsinki00:02
tekonivelmy n95 keeps randomly loosing programs i've installed00:02
lcukcool, has the weather closed in fully then, or just a bit icy00:02
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tekoniveli even paid for vBag, but i haven't seen in it in the menus this week00:03
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lcuki somehow keep managing to randomly wipe my desktops, ive had it unlocked in pocket and it seems quite adept at self cleansing00:04
tekonivelit shouldn't be like this00:04
wazdok, back to my miserable life again, cya chaps00:04
tekonivelwazd: cya00:04
lcukcya wazd00:04
javispedrocy wazd00:04
lcukwe need to be able to save desktop layouts :)00:05
lcukselect them from profiles00:05
tekoniveland i installed Qik once, it vanished and now i cannot reinstall it00:05
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tekonivelsrsly, vbag nor qik are *not* on this phone, anywhere in the menus00:06
zaheerm-lpi don;t know where in my rules file to put maemo-optify00:06
lcukcan you delete menu items00:06
zaheerm-lpi don't have dh_gencontrol00:06
fralsmy n95 has started acting up as well, i think it knows its about to be replaced :(00:06
qwerty12_N900zaheerm: is it a CDBS rules file?00:06
javispedromy cx75 broke yesterday00:06
tekonivelcould i pls hibernate until n900 hits the market? pretty pls00:06
javispedrothe lcd cable broke and all it shows is a white screen00:07
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zaheerm-lpqwerty12_N900, ya00:07
javispedroso it seems the pre-n900 syndrome is not for nokia phones only.00:07
* javispedro realizes his CX75 is in WSoD!00:07
qwerty12_N900zaheerm: I shoved it in package-name/binary-install:: (something like that; I hate CDBS) for the Droid Sans fonts00:09
zaheerm-lpqwerty12_N900, interesting idea00:09
javispedroqwerty12_N900: so if you have cdbs why you use it? >:)00:10
zaheerm-lpqwerty12_N900, inside rules right:00:10
qwerty12_N900javispedro: Package from Ubuntu was using it and I really did not see the point of switching just for some fonts :)00:11
qwerty12_N900zaheerm: yep00:11
zaheerm-lpwhats diff between binary-install and install ?00:11
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lcuk11101010 00101101 00101010 10010101 01010101 0101111100:12
lcukor do you need more info?00:12
zaheerm-lpi know what binary is :P00:12
qwerty12_N900Stuff in binary-install gets looked at after stuff like dh_install has been ran. Not sure how this differs to install come think of it...00:12
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mikkov__binary-predeb/ puts is closer to dh_gencontrol, but it doesn't seem matter00:13
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zaheerm-lpqwerty12_N900, thx i built my optified gst-ffmpeg inside my sbox, now to upload it to extras-devel00:16
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qwerty12_N900Awesome. Thanks! :)00:17
zaheerm-lpwill save me 5MB on my device too :)00:18
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zaheerm-lpthere is a thread with 116 pages on t.m.o00:23
zaheerm-lpthat is crazy00:23
javispedro"only" 116 pages00:23
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lcukshouild add a posting time delay based on the size of the thread00:26
* javispedro realizes blurring does not work using vmgl00:26
javispedrodamn! this time sink is even more hungry00:26
lcukbalance it so by the time you get to 50 pages the delay is just shy of a millenium00:26
qwerty12_N900This a good time to mention that you can increase the amount of posts shown per page?00:28
zaheerm-lpis there a way to check from an installled pkg which repo it came from?00:28
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* qwerty12_N900 thanks _|Nix|_ for Notification Area00:33
wiretappedzaheerm-lp: apt-cache policy pkgname00:33
zaheerm-lpwiretapped, thx00:34
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ShadowJKlcuk, that's a good way to spawn hundreds of threads on the same subject00:35
wiretappedbtw, dpkg doesn't know where packages where installed pacakges actually came from00:35
zaheerm-lpdamn pkg is in a repo in
wiretappedapt-cache policy merely tells you what versions are available where, and what is installed00:35
lcukShadowJK, and thats different to now?00:35
zaheerm-lpi wanted to edit the package00:35
wiretappeds/where packages//00:36
lcukmany forums have a posting limit00:36
wiretappedzaheerm-lp: why damn?00:36
zaheerm-lpi can't see the index pages on that web page, no idea how to d/l the src package00:37
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wiretappedif it is a proper repo with a src repo, you can duplicate its line in sources.list and s/deb/deb-src/ and apt-get update and apt-get source pkgname00:38
zaheerm-lpwiretapped: interesting00:38
wiretappedbut it'd be surprised if * was proper like that :/00:38
ShadowJKlcuk, i guess you need moderators willing to merge threads :/00:38
wiretappedI'd be00:38
zaheerm-lpi'll try00:38
lcukyikes i hate merged threads00:38
lcukit gets more confusing than discussing same thing in multiple places00:38
qwerty12_N900It does?00:39
qwerty12_N900sjgadsby has been merging a lot of threads recently. 'Tis useful00:39
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Jaffazaheerm: sorry for the late reply, semi-known issue. If you could raise a bug that'd be fantastic as I've got questions about such a usecase00:42
* Jaffa is not an N97 fan, btw00:43
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JaffaReceived one today (not with the new OS AFAICT) and it's so clunky and primitive.00:44
lcukJaffa, the tilting hardware is nice tho00:46
lcukis it a mini>?00:46
Jaffalcuk: no, fullsize00:46
* lcuk nods00:47
lcuki like the mini, got to play with one in london00:47
Jaffakeyboard's not as good as N900, it's a little bigger and a lot lighter00:47
lcuki quite like the idea of getting maemo on it tbh00:47
GAN900Booklet 3G's keys are too small.00:47
qwerty12_N900Is the layout just as odd as the N900's, Jaffa?00:47
lcukyou got one?00:48
lcukqwerty12_N900, afaik its pretty similar00:48
GAN900Tried one at Best Buy last night.00:48
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Jaffaqwerty12_N900: Similar. Blue arrow on right is a problem for me as a lefty.00:49
GAN900Build quality is great. Minus the trackpad buttons and the keyboard.00:49
JaffaAnyone know the UK launch date of the booklet?00:49
zaheerm-lpbuilt on my scratchbox fine failed on autobuilder :( maemo-optify00:49
zaheerm-lpprint() on closed filehandle $out at /usr/bin/maemo-optify line 220.00:49
zaheerm-lpprint() on closed filehandle $out at /usr/bin/maemo-optify line 183.Bad file descriptor at /usr/bin/maemo-optify line 240.00:49
GAN900Tried a Sholes dummy unit.00:49
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JaffaGAN900: I had a brief play at NokiaWorld and thought the kb wasn't bad00:49
GAN900The slide tried to cut my fingers.00:49
qwerty12_N900Jaffa: The real problem, here, is being a lefty in the first place ;p00:49
GAN900Jaffa, too much space between keys.00:50
JaffaI wouldn't pay the 500gbp for one00:50
GAN900Keys should've been larger.00:50
zaheerm-lpn97 has crappy hardware in comparison00:50
GAN900qwerty12, indeed. It certainly explains a lot, though. ;)00:50
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Jaffaqwerty12_N900: :-p00:50
GAN900The dpad on the Sholes is not only ugly, it's useless.00:51
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* Jaffa has considered trying the N97 as his main phone for a few days, but I dunno...00:51
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GAN900Jaffa, over the N900? ;)00:53
zaheerm-lpdifferent version of maemo-optify on autobuilder to one in my line 220 in my maemo-optify00:53
JaffaGAN900: thought I'd give it a fair go00:53
Jaffazaheerm-lp: m-vo's been making changes. mail maemo-developers00:53
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zaheerm-lpthe thing i miss on my e71 is the keyboard00:54
* Jaffa goes to settle the baby, then sleep00:54
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zaheerm-lpJaffa, night00:55
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dmj7262Anybody looked at porting a simplified version of a video editor?01:26
dmj7262...say openshot...that's in python using gstreamer I think.01:27
zaheerm-lpdmj7261, that's the stuff i put up on t.m.o01:27
zaheerm-lpthe hardest part to get right in a video editor is the UI01:27
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zaheerm-lpthe backend stuff gstreamer with gnonlin does a lot of the work for you01:28
zaheerm-lpso i wouldn't port a video editor, more work on a UI concept that would fit the device01:28
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zaheerm-lpthen get that coded up and hook up the gst/gnl logic01:28
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* lcuk gulps01:35
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lcukzaheerm, dmj7261 the barca conf :)01:36
lcuksee what work they are doing in the mirror app01:36
zaheerm-lpyah i just mentioned it 1/2 hr ago in the barca conf thread01:37
lcukyeah i know01:37
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lcukhence the smile01:37
lcukits a great idea and advances from the cocreation stuff01:37
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lcukzaheerm, i wonder..01:38
dmj7262oh and add music!01:38
zaheerm-lpdmj7262, yep01:39
lcukmusic would be good, to expand on theramin :)01:39
lcukhes got a server infrastructure01:39
lcukuse that as a base layer and make a band app :P01:40
dmj7262get multiple n900s together for an n900 orchestra!01:40
lcukdmj7261 :) thats my dept01:41
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zaheerm-lpthe speakers at least are decent-ish on the n90001:41
zaheerm-lpunlike most phones01:41
lcukvery sideways oriented tho01:41
lcukfor personal listening some bat ear deflector diskes are needed01:41
lcuki didnt have headphones on the train01:42
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lcukand couldnt hear it unless i cupped hands01:42
lcukto bounce the sound towards me01:42
lcukwas tryin not to have it loud enough01:42
lcukto bug ppl01:42
lcukfolding arms infront was good enough01:42
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dmj7262at least the n900 has speakers loud enough where you're trying to conceal the sound!01:43
dmj7262I have the opposite problem on my eee pc 90001:43
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zaheerm-lpdmj7262, and my asus u6s 12" laptop too!01:43
lcukdmj7261, it was on very low at the edge of hearing unless i cupped hands01:44
lcukand then its volume went up enough, the sound was just vanishing towards the rest of the train01:44
lcuki couldv turned it up much more!01:45
lcuki thought about keesj's push button and if it had the correctly shaped sides it would deflect sound better01:45
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dmj7262looks like the iphone has a video editor01:47
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zaheerm-lptime for me to sleep i think01:47
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dmj7262look up reeldirector01:49
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dmj7262no audio editing capabilities though01:51
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dmj7262it's only for the 3gs02:00
dmj7262"After months of laboring and overcoming the limitations of iPhone's memory and processing power..."02:01
dmj7262I suspect that landscape might be better for video editing.02:03
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m77771111I am tired to find simple graphics editor that can save images to jpeg, png...)02:40
m77771111Want to draw simple pictures and have jpg ) "MyPaint" is very heavy) )02:41
dmj7262maybe xournal?02:41
dmj7262not really a graphics editor, but simple sketches should be doable.02:42
m77771111can it save sketches to jpeg? :)02:43
dmj7262um...not sure02:43
dmj7262are you on n8x0?02:44
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m77771111no, xournal can't save in jpg... Just in some its format02:49
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lcukm77771111, liqbase :)02:50
lcukand you could always just take screenshots with any app02:50
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m77771111liqbase is only for screenshots?02:52
lcukno, and my mistake i misread02:52
lcukit doesnt do png yet either02:52
lcukwell the normal one doesnt but it could be easily added, why do you need png02:52
lcuki mean a bitmap format, not a specific image class02:53
m77771111dont understand you02:53
lcukliqbase still saves in vectors but is really simple02:53
m77771111Can it allow me to draw and save to jpg? (y/n)02:53
lcukm77771111, but why do you need jpg or png02:54
m77771111i need to post images to Forum )02:55
m77771111I need to sketch, upload them (some image server), and insert links to forums02:56
lcuki have a postcard app02:56
lcukit lets me draw a sketch02:57
lcukcombine with a pic02:57
lcukand uploads a png to my server02:57
lcukperhaps it could be adapted to your needs easily02:57
lcukthe sketching is simplistic and essentially pencil drawing02:57
m77771111I am glad )02:58
m77771111But what i need to install? :)02:58
lcukto change the app to your needs02:59
lcukor to play yourself02:59
lcukand try things02:59
lcukeither way, liqbase-playground02:59
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lcukit installs quite a lot02:59
lcukdifferent smaller apps02:59
lcukthe postcard is just one of them02:59
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m77771111i found installed application "sketch". Is saves to png.03:00
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* xnt14 feels bored lol06:39
* xnt14 pokes someone random06:39
* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... o'reilly... free computer books online from O'reilly at
xnt14~random v2px_06:39
* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... ... 06:40
v2px_if you're bored: read a book!06:40
v2px_aw, nothing for me06:40
* xnt14 has already read one artemis fowl book, and two fanfics (17 chapters) in the last 8 hours06:40
* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... i want apt's body... Take me, xnt14!06:41
* infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds rfc407... Remote Job Entry Protocol. R.D. Bressler, R. Guida, A.M. McKenzie. Oct-16-1972. (Not online) (Obsoletes RFC0360) (Status: HISTORIC)06:41
xnt14~random n90006:41
* infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds port 2395... lan900_remote - LAN900 Remote06:41
xnt14~random nokia06:41
* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... nit... Nokia Internet Tablet06:41
xnt14~random irc06:42
* infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds do a dance... grabs xnt14 and (bends him over|swings him around in circles|tosses him in the air|gives him a lap dance)06:42
xnt14~random boredom06:42
* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... rfc 1438... Internet Engineering Task Force Statements Of Boredom (SOBs). A. Lyman Chapin & C. Huitema. 1 April 1993. (Format: TXT=3044 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL)06:42
infobotboredom is, like, the main motivation for you people talking to me, dont think I dont realise that.06:43
* xnt14 runs when he sees GeneralAntilles glaring at him for bot spam xD06:43
v2px_we need a rps bot for boring nights06:44
* infobot starts crying and hides from yuizy in the darkest corner of the room. :(06:45
* infobot pulls out the cookie jar and finds hey how... are you;`cat /etc/passwd`06:45
* infobot flies a F16, or
xnt14fail. infobot should fly an f2206:45
v2px_is he dead now? :(06:45
infobotsomebody said zombie was a zombie process is one which has issued an exit(), but whose parent has not yet issued wait() (or one of its variants) to retrieve the exit code.  This usually means the parent process is buggy.  You can't kill a zombie, because it's already dead; you have to kill the parent,just ignore the zombie.06:46
yuizyi think i killed him06:46
infoboti heard infobot is a hack!, or known to have only said one useful thing. a tool, or dating the fembots, or [TK]D-Fender's b*tch, or suck, or a pain in the ass06:46
xnt14~play cod406:47
infobotrumour has it, fail is what happens to you when you follow gamespot's game advice. standing in the fire.06:47
xnt14~killall infobot06:48
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.06:48
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xnt14I think *now* hes dead :P06:48
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xnt14~kill v2px_06:49
* infobot shoots a magneto-ionized anti-graviton gun at v2px_06:49
xnt14~chase v2px_06:50
* infobot chases v2px_06:50
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xnt14~seen lcuk06:51
infobotlcuk <i=lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 51m 17s ago, saying: 'the postcard is just one of them'.06:51
xnt14hmm ;P06:51
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xnt14~kill theidiotwhoinventedboredom06:52
* infobot shoots a hyper-charged fluxphoton gun at theidiotwhoinventedboredom06:52
* xnt14 spots GeneralAntilles, and then silently sneaks way...06:53
dreamer__anyone know if a package that provides GL/glu.h is in the repo06:53
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* xnt14 remembers that his science teacher will kill him if he doesn't finish this lab. brb06:54
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Flandry__what's going on here XD08:01
johnxnot too much08:01
johnxwhat's going on there?08:02
Flandry__i had no idea infobot was so versatile :P08:02
Flandry__~make a cake?08:02
infobotmake: *** No rule to make target `a cake'.  Stop.08:02
infobotjohnx: aw, gee08:02
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Flandry__~make sense08:02
infobotmake: *** No rule to make target `sense'.  Stop.08:02
dmj7261I've got a good name for a simple video editor for the n900.08:04
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mrkikoHi all! I'm starting an adventure right now - wanting to run Linux on my Nokia N95 for no special purpose, just learn.09:05
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mrkikoCan someone tell me where to start? Or what to do first? I know I can't use jtag, for sure09:06
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courmischmrkiko: the secure boot loader wont allow you to boot Linux on N9509:17
courmischAFAIK, it will only load trusted Nokia flash images09:17
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mrkikocourmisch: I knew, that's the precaution against firmware modding. But, I'm trying to rewrite the bootloader also... :)09:19
mrkikocourmisch: yes, I know I'm going to risk my mind's healt09:19
courmischthe bootloader is signed too09:19
Stskeepsthats really the difference with 770/n8x0/n900 .. it does not require signatures09:21
courmischI think, if you manage to break that security, there may be more interesting things than hacking your N9509:21
Stskeeps(excepting on cell module fw)09:21
mrkikoStskeeps: so you say the bootloader is not really checking signatures?09:22
courmischStskeeps: is the loader not signed too on Nxxx ?09:22
courmischI thought security was disabled by some stage of the loader09:23
mrkikoThe one in E65 rm-208 is09:23
Stskeepscourmisch: well it allows us to boot our own kernels09:23
courmischbut that stage must be signed09:23
courmischbecause the loader does not check signature09:23
Stskeepsi havent heard on any sigs on nolo and x-loader09:23
Stskeepsfeel free to prove me wrong09:23
courmischI dunno too much09:24
Stskeepsbut then again, noone has wanted to hack nolo or xloader09:24
Stskeepsas it works for its purpose09:24
mrkikoMy problem is that I don't have service hardware - Yes, I know i'll need it09:24
Stskeepsmrkiko: nxxx are much more open than nxx :P09:25
mrkikoStskeeps: ehehe... guesed09:26
* mrkiko warn - "I'm not english"09:26
mrkikoStskeeps: but a question, you might think stupid... Where is actually Security implemented? In the CPU itself?09:27
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Stskeepsno clue about nxx09:27
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mrkikoIn other words - if in some way I manage to get the entire ROM content, may I put my hands on something interesting?09:28
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Stskeepsif rom checks bootloader sig, not much to do09:29
mrkikoStskeeps: clear...09:29
Stskeepsyou are better off doing something HaRET li09:29
mrkikoHaRET like? I don't know HaRET - is it a project name, a slang word or what?09:29
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Stskeepsits a user space program that loads a kernel from within the os09:30
mrkikoI think it needs an hacked firmware aniway09:31
GeneralAntillesSave the time and effort, buy an N900. ;)09:31
Stskeepson windows mobile no, but you will need deep access09:31
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Stskeepsand what GA said09:31
mrkikoI can work only with S60 3rd phones - I'm blind...09:32
mrkikoso that I need to have assistive technology before the kernel loads. After that, no problems, I can do with serial consoles and things like that.09:32
Stskeepsthat does seem not easy.. i know there is some degree of assistive technology in n90009:33
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Stskeepswhat would you want from your cellphone to help you in using it?09:34
mrkikoEhehe.. I knew about that some time ago. Aniway ... I'll inform myself...09:34
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mrkikobut it seems haret doesn't support s6009:35
GeneralAntillesAre there any decent Linux-friendly non-touch mobile devices other there these days?09:35
Stskeepsmrkiko: screen reader on device needed?09:36
mrkikoStskeeps: yes. Now I'm using an hacked Symbian N95 with Nuance Talks09:37
GeneralAntillesAnd almost 33 hours Talk-free!09:37
mrkikoI have aniway a 6630 and a E6509:37
GeneralAntillesI've only attempted to load the recent posts page 6 times. <_<09:37
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Stskeepsbasically i think it may be easier to get n900 to do your bidding than hack a linux kernel on n95 :P09:37
GeneralAntillesAlthough Hildon is REALLY touchscreen focused.09:38
Stskeepsand i'm sure there are some users who would help out09:38
mrkikook ok ... What does N900 run?09:38
Stskeepsmaemo, linux09:38
Stskeepsgtk+ based09:38
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mrkikoI'M LOVIN* IT09:38
GeneralAntillesmrkiko, basically the GNOME mobile stack.09:38
GeneralAntillesThe big hurdle is that the UI is very focused on touchscreen usage.09:38
mrkikognome and accessibility are not good friend aniway09:39
GeneralAntillesWhich I imagine is difficult to feel your way around.09:39
mrkikoand for an italian user, the english voice of gnome is just "too english" :)09:39
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: with a bit of tactice feedback it might be09:39
mrkikoOh guys. I just wanted to see the device boot, look at some interesting kernel internals within the arch starting right from the dmesg :)09:39
GeneralAntillesSome awfully small targets to hit.09:40
Stskeepsmrkiko: a n95 is fairly similar to a n8x0 i think09:40
mrkikotouch-screen... ehehe ... i hate them so much, but I understand there's no solution09:40
* GeneralAntilles has never really investigated usability stuff all that much, though.09:40
JaffaMorning, all09:40
Stskeepsbut if you need a device that you can add accessibility on.. n900 can do a lot09:40
mrkikoeheh... I immagine09:41
Stskeepstouch can be good though.. gesture interface09:41
Stskeepsmaemo isnt limited to one ui only so09:42
Stskeepssome people ran KDE09:42
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Stskeepsstart a thread on on n900 for blind and lets see what people can come up with09:44
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Stskeepswb nchip09:45
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suihkulokkiwho? :P09:46
Stskeepshehe, noticed you dropped off irc :P09:46
* Stskeeps gets back to playing with sb toolchains for uclibc09:47
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: apart from the Hermes thread, I've nowmanaged about 5 days.09:48
* Stskeeps contemplates viewing the SSO discussion or not.09:49
GeneralAntillesJaffa, my productivity has gone up. I hadn't realized how much of a boredom crutch it had become.09:49
JaffaStskeeps: It's now spread to -community09:50
GeneralAntillesThe sad part about this whole thing is that the core really is falling to pieces.09:50
* GeneralAntilles recalls this discussion from early 2007.09:50
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately it doesn't seem to be working out happily this time.09:50
* Jaffa got called a sociopath one too many times. Which, it turns out, is once.09:51
GeneralAntillesInterestingly it wasn't anything specific for me09:51
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JaffaAnyway, I'll go back one day soon. Maybe stop folling newposts09:51
GeneralAntillesAlthough there are dozens of them I could've decided this over in the past.09:52
GeneralAntillesSo far it's not looking likely for me.09:52
JaffaGeneralAntilles: That I was getting 7 pages of newposts every time I went and was opening a lower and lower number of them was the biggest reason.09:52
JaffaTime goes up, return on investment was going down.09:53
mrkikosorry - should escape09:53
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JaffaOf course, suggesting the SnR ratio on ML is higher is snobbish of me ;)09:53
GeneralAntillesWorse, /yuppyish/.09:54
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Jaffas/SnR ratio/SNR/09:55
infobotJaffa meant: Of course, suggesting the SNR on ML is higher is snobbish of me ;)09:55
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frewsxcvis nitdroid stable on the 770?10:28
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samadfor camera i have run the examplae_camera code in my simulator but camera_src not found i am using webcam10:30
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ShadowJKyay, new N810 battery \o/10:48
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ShadowJKthe old one is a bit swollen in comparison...10:52
Stskeepswtf did you do to it :P10:53
ShadowJKI think it was heat10:54
ShadowJKIt got significantly worse after my N810 was in my jeans pocket during a 10 day trip to the german heatwave10:54
boxxydid u say german10:54
boxxyheil hitler mein fuhrer10:55
ShadowJKor then when it sat in car during summer perhaps..10:55
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ShadowJKMy used N800's battery arrived in somewhat crap condition too, and I wondered wtf the previous owner had done10:56
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johnxplease don't tell me that the best git GUI is that tcl/tk thing...11:07
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* frals bashes head against a brick wall11:19
RST38hwhy do you need a gui?11:20
Shapeshifterfrals: how's your mms going?11:20
fralsgot told to setup a lpd server so another company could use our printer, sure i say... after doing and "its not working" from their server they get back to me, and after a while they tell me they actually expected it to be a hp printerserver :<11:20
fralsits progressing!11:20
johnxRST38h, because I'm really not getting git11:20
Shapeshifterjohnx: afaik, it is.11:20
Shapeshifterfrals: pleased to hear ^^11:20
fralssince i got the dbus docs for registering to handle wap push yesterday its golden11:20
Milo-is google maps available for n900 yet?11:20
fralsand got some networkgeeks in the talk thread hacking away at multiple connections open11:21
Stskeepsthere's a maemaps thing11:21
johnxMilo-, did someone say it would be?11:21
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pupniknice to read that frals11:26
fralsthe biggest problem now is the fact im more of a trial-n-error programmer, and its kinda hard without a device, but hopefully they start shipping soon :)11:27
beatpanicfrals, eheh, do you know (hi!) when it comes out? they said october! :)11:28
fralsgoing out on a limb here - but im going with "when its done" ;-) (no really, i have no clue)11:29
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rangefrals: Well, you can try very much now and the error will only be bigger :)11:29
beatpanicfrals, eheh ok11:29
range*get bigger.11:29
fralsrange: yeah thats what im doing, building a foundation of errors and then i just have to fix em all and it *should* work... ;D11:29
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IcanCUis the n900 a good voip phone?11:32
Myrttitea ♥11:34
IcanCUu've used it?11:34
Aveanyone actually HAVE the n900 yet in their dirty mittens?11:35
MyrttiAve: preproduction ones are about in multitudes11:35
_berto_IcanCU: I have11:36
IcanCUover 3g or ifi?11:37
_berto_and many people in this channel, I assume11:37
holydevil_Been here for quite some time now ... is N900 coming to India?11:37
IcanCUi'm having trouble to get voip to work on my e7111:37
IcanCUit works11:37
IcanCUbut fails often11:37
IcanCUlooking for the best voip mobile phone out there11:37
StskeepsIcanCU: it supports sip, skype, google talk, ..11:38
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_berto_IcanCU: I haven't had a single problem with it, but I also don't make voip calls that often11:38
IcanCUthe n900 seems like a fun phone11:38
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IcanCUa bit large though11:39
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_berto_not as big as it appears11:39
Stskeepsnot really11:39
_berto_at least that's what happened to me11:39
Stskeepsit can probably kill a man but considering what's in it..11:39
danielwilmsIcanCU I'm a regular voip user and it works fine!11:39
bazei only wish they would've used one of those stantum touch panels to make it ready for maemo6 and multitouch too :/11:40
frals*adds one more item to the feature list: murder weapon*11:40
holydevil_if only someone can tell me if this phone is coming to INDIA11:40
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johnxholydevil_, usually when people don't answer it's because they don't know11:41
johnxholydevil_, is it on the site for India?11:41
holydevil_johnx: ah come on! It's the source of truth for the moment. I'm talking about future plans11:41
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johnxholydevil_, so you want me to make something up?11:42
holydevil_johnx: I know it's not coming here for the first release11:42
holydevil_johnx: not you, may be someone who knows it, someone from nokia11:42
johnxholydevil_, if anyone knows it inside Nokia they'd be fired instantly for telling you here11:43
holydevil_johnx: sounds like a taboo11:43
johnxI wouldn't say a taboo so much as just preventing leaks...11:44
Myrttino, it sounds like NDA11:44
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johnxholydevil_, does it support the right GSM frequencies? is their language support in ukeyboard?11:45
holydevil_johnx: yes and yes11:46
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johnxwell, then at least you can just buy it over the internet and use it11:47
johnxmuch better situation than in canada where their GSM frequencies don't match up...11:48
courmischwell, even most Nokia employees would not know the answer11:49
courmischsales is a matter of the markets unit, not Maemo11:49
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holydevil_johnx, courmisch I have a feeling it will be launched in India. It's a huge market & 3GS has not launched here yet!11:51
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adeus dh_install11:52
adeus/scratchbox/tools/bin/cp: cannot stat `./#': No such file or directory11:52
johnxkeep in mind the n900 is still kind of a "testing the water" device. Almost certainly the maemo 6 device will be released in India though11:52
adeusany ideas what to debug, what is that looking for?11:52
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johnxadeus, look at your debian/rules11:52
adeuswell it says that it's running dh_install :)11:53
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suihkulokkiadeus: is there a # in some of the debian/*.install files ?11:53
adeusand .install files look ok11:53
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Stskeepsheh, they're introducing android phones on .dk market here11:54
Stskeeps / selling11:54
Stskeeps.. except the android market is not open in .dk11:54
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adeusthere was one11:55
adeusmaybe a newer debhelper allows those11:55
holydevil_frick, so maemo 6 = buy new hardware ?11:55
adeusI had to bump the compat version down11:55
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netvandali guy12:00
netvandal*hi guy12:01
johnxhallo netvandal12:01
johnxhi-ho to you as well12:01
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netvandalsomeone know how to debug apps that use liblocation in scratchbox?12:02
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ccookeMorning, all12:02
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adeusmock the location api? :)12:03
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danielwilmsnetvandal there is in general no option to generate gps data automatically in the scratchbox...but you could implement faked data by yourself12:04
netvandalwrapping the dbus api?12:05
StskeepsLD_PRELOAD of liblocation could work..12:06
netvandalStskeeps, what you mean?12:06
Stskeepswell, wrapping the functions of liblocation to return fake data12:07
netvandala ok :)12:07
adeusala mocking it12:07
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kalikianabeware of the mocking bird12:08
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Stskeepslo wazd12:14
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Stskeepshow is life in kafkaland?12:14
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Stskeepswell, in this particular case, russia, which is acting rather kafka-esque towards wazd :P12:19
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Stskeepswb qwerty1212:23
johnxmornin' qwerty1212:23
qwerty12Good morning, johnx & Stskeeps12:23
pupnikgood thing we havd so many lurkers :)12:28
johnxpupnik, otherwise we wouldn't be able to make the daily sacrifices to the elder gods12:29
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qwerty12First sacrifice made =)12:33
wazd oh!12:33
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johnxwazd, that is pretty freaking awesome. make me a 4-tile pannable n900 wallpaper :D12:34
wazdthat's not my pic :)12:34
SpeedEvilDoes wallpaper support mng or ani-gif?12:34
SpeedEvilOr flash! :)12:35
* SpeedEvil ponders xlock -inroot -mode flame 12:35
qwerty12goatse screensaver12:39
Stskeepsworse, creepy hands screensaver12:39
qwerty12Ooh, that is the worst, indeed12:39
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johnxwhy is it 2:41AM already12:41
* SpeedEvil imagines every application window popping up in a round window 1/3 of the screen diameter, and then getting pulled open by two hands that dissapear off to the left and the right.12:42
StskeepsSpeedEvil: evil evil clutter transition12:42
johnxgah gah gah *fumbles for the mind bleach*12:42
qwerty12That's an awesome idea12:42
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StskeepsSpeedEvil: worst part is that it sounds reasonably possible to hack h-d to do.12:43
SpeedEvilYou know there are prople that would buy a phone for this sort of silliness :)12:43
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* qwerty12 12:44
dmj7261How big are fremantle buttons suppose to be?12:44
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`0660i didn't see any buttons in fremantle when i visited it yesterday12:45
`0660what are you talking about? :)12:45
`0660they had a nice brewery there though12:45
dmj7261for the n900, how big (pixel wise) should buttons be?12:45
johnx`0660, maybe he's thinking of freemantle?12:46
Stskeepslook at the HIG or the design guide12:46
`0660johnx, the suburb in uk? :)12:47
johnx`0660, I actually think ig might be somewhere in Finland. but a lot of things get fixed there. that's all I know12:48
RST38hNVIDIA is preparing to mount a fresh assault on the mobile front, with a successor to Tegra that moves to a dual-core ARM9 CPU and adds improved graphical performance to produce what's said to be twice the power.12:48
dmj7261is that the easter egg?12:49
johnxRST38h, uhm...isn't tegra an ARM11? and they're going back to an ARM9?12:49
vivainioyeah, for windows ce \o/12:49
RST38hjohnx: wasn't it arm9 from the start?12:50
qwerty12johnx: But, it's dual-core! OMG12:50
RST38hThe bird dropped some bread on a section of outdoor machinery, eventually leading to significant over heating in parts of the accelerator. The LHC was not operational at the time of the incident.12:50
johnxman I'm really confused about nvidia lately...or maybe they're really confused...12:50
Stskeepsdual-core arm9 .. for the DS? :P12:50
johnxRST38h, overheats even when off. that's how badass it is12:50
RST38hjohnx: Universe definitely does not want this thing to work12:51
johnxStskeeps, good call. probably so12:51
`0660RST38h :)12:51
RST38hSts: Most likely12:51
StskeepsRST38h: it doesn't want to work as it would invove a time travel paradox12:51
RST38hSts: I like the end-of-the-world theory better12:51
dmj7261The LHC is it's own grandfather?12:51
Stskeepsthat it won't work as it would end the world? :P12:51
RST38hI.e. it will end the world when humans figure out how to make it work =)12:52
johnxand we're still 2 years out from world-endy doom12:52
dmj726148 px is the answer12:52
dmj7261but that seems kinda small when scaled properly in GIMP12:53
Stskeepsremember 800x480 screen..12:54
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johnx48 px? really? that does seem small12:55
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`0660wouldn't it be easy to check from all the screenshots?12:55
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dmj7261no 48is for widgits13:00
dmj7261they have some defined values but don't say what they are13:01
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dmj7261my guess is 128 pixels13:02
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* lardman sits waiting for the delivery man13:07
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lardmanhey JamieBennett113:10
JamieBennett1hey lardman13:10
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lardmanhi woglinde13:10
andre__cool. looks i kind made my device unusable by mass-installing apps. even "df -h" does not display anything anymore :-/13:10
woglinde2 hours until I am off to uk13:10
lardmanwoglinde: where you going?13:11
lardmanah yes, I remember now13:11
woglindelardman hms I forgot you were in berlin13:12
lardmannp, was pretty busy the whole time13:12
woglindedamn navit13:13
lardmanhow is navit coming along these days?13:13
woglindehm latest svn version for n800 dont works13:14
lardmantoo many map apps available13:15
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lardmanwell there are lots of apps available, all overlap in some ways13:16
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lardmanis there a handy page anywhere listing the strengths and weaknesses of the various map apps I wonder?13:19
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TermanaJust as a for interest question - does Maemo 4 allocate a swap file/partition by default?13:25
VDVsxandre__, had the same issue, a system reboot helped :)13:25
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andre__VDVsx, not here13:25
andre__reflashing anyway now...13:25
zaheermandre__, i've done stuff that makes my n900 unusable for periods of time, i think currently i'm using way too much ram and too much swap too13:27
zaheermandre__, is there a decent way of checking what processes are eating too much ram on it...i think ps's values are not the ones to use, but i am no expert13:27
andre__uh... don't know13:27
`0660wouldn't rss in ps be pretty accurate?13:28
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zaheermi only get VSZ in the ps on the device13:28
zaheermprobably due to ps being from busybox13:29
tekojoandre__ did a reboot return the device after the mass install problem?13:30
andre__tekojo, problem remains13:30
tekojozaheerm top?13:31
andre__tekojo, starting app-manager it says "Operation failed" and does not display any apps to uninstall13:31
andre__from an average user point i'd say: not cool13:31
tekojoandre__ can you try deleting something on rootfs that is useless (diablo used to have the user manuals that could be deleted in case of emergency :-)13:31
andre__yeah. i wonder what to delete :)13:32
tekojoandre__ for example take out one of the themes /usr/share/themes13:33
andre__"df -h" does not even list any file systems anymore :-/13:33
tekojonot default or alpha though :-)13:33
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tekojono x-term?13:33
andre__x-term works.13:33
andre__but df -h fails :)13:33
tekojodoes rm work?13:33
andre__yes :)13:34
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tekojothen remove some unwanted theme :-)13:34
want3ddriversHELLO ALL I WANT MY 3D DRIVERS13:34
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javispedroer... hello :)13:34
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VDVsxmorning evil javispedro13:35
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VDVsxandre__, I had exactly the same issue, the AM also said "Operation failed" ;)13:36
Termanajavispedro: You cannot have them.13:36
TermanaI was suppose to change my nick to "TI"13:36
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* VDVsx sends nvidia-powerxpto-3Ddrivers13:36
VDVsxjavispedro, happy now :P13:36
VDVsxwoglinde, fake name ;)13:37
javispedro~chase VDVsx13:37
* infobot chases VDVsx13:37
andre__heh. still 100% used but at least "df -h" works again13:38
javispedroand don't let him out until he eats the last bit of the nvidia-powerxpto drivers!13:38
andre__anyway, time to reflash to a newer version13:38
VDVsx~curse badly javispedro13:38
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, badly javispedro !13:38
javispedromy preciouuuus ... my preciouuus drivers........13:40
* javispedro needs to unsubscribe from 3d drivers thread13:41
tekojoandre__ can you check HAM before you flash?13:41
Termanajavispedro: Give us a link to the thread, I was searching for it earlier and couldn't find itt13:41
tekojojust to know if deleting stuff is an ecological way to help?13:41
woglindeat least a new gma500 driver is coming13:41
Termanajavispedro: thanks :)13:42
andre__tekojo, i could not delete stuff from h-a-m.13:43
andre__it does not list any apps anymore and displays "operation failed"13:43
andre__apt-get remove also did not work anymore13:43
andre__telling me to run "dpkg --configure -a" first/.13:43
andre__which also failed.13:43
tekojooh, so it messes something up as a last thing...13:43
andre__reflashing now...13:43
qwerty12javispedro: look at and note TI want to stop you from doing the same. Muhahahaha =)13:43
tekojoandre__ how about deleting some more stuff from rootfs :-)13:44
andre__tekojo, i'll try to reproduce that again later tonight. currently stops me a bit from working :-P13:44
* javispedro has heart attack13:44
andre__hehe. well... what is left? :)13:44
javispedroqwerty12: you evil, I saw the date and the "opengl" keyword BEFORE realizing it was software rendering13:44
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qwerty12javispedro: :p13:45
VDVsxandre__, hammer ?13:45
andre__got one:)13:46
woglindeqwerty hm intressting link13:47
* VDVsx hides and do something more productive13:47
qwerty12andre__: Chocolates? This will be an all out assault. You must prepare yourself.13:47
* javispedro patiently waits for the TI "contact" to say "Oh, what 3D drivers? I though we shipped them already! Oh, you mean for the N810?"13:47
woglindejavis *g*13:47
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tekojoandre__ hmmm, the stuff you filled the rootfs with ?13:47
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andre__i just tried to install some apps by using apt-get - 16 or so at a time13:48
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Termanajavispedro: I don't think anyone has considered that they might NOT actually release them13:48
Termanajavispedro: Don't cry, I'm just speculating. :P lol13:49
tekojoandre__ Can't think of anything sensible and normal; open a bug? :-)13:49
javispedroTermana: I do ... that's why I worry.13:49
andre__tekojo, going to do that after reproducing it once, later on :)13:49
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infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power13:58
jeremiahUmm, okay.13:58
Jaffajeremiah: He was talking to someone else. Anyone else ;-p13:58
jeremiahhe was talking to me - debslave!13:59
jeremiahEr, umm, debmaster13:59
jeremiahinfobot is on crack13:59
infobotNo, I'm not!13:59
jeremiahyes you are and stop arguing with me!13:59
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t_s_oah, always fun when someone gets into a argument with a automaton :P14:02
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zaheermhow do i delete something from the autobuilder build queue?14:03
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jeremiahYou don't14:04
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jeremiahIt has been copied to another machine and is being built.14:05
zaheermit has got stuck14:05
zaheermi keep getting emails saying UNKNOWN in the subject for it14:05
zaheermfor the last hr and a bit14:05
jeremiahwhich package is it?14:06
zaheermflvlib 0.1.6-114:06
jeremiahI see that too, hmmm.14:06
zaheermi uploaded 0.1.7-1 which hopefully fixes a problem with it (and also new upstream version)14:06
jeremiahI don't think you have caused this problem, I think it is a glitch here on garage.14:07
zaheermok good to know :)14:07
jeremiahI will try to fix it.14:07
jeremiahsure, and apologies if it was something garage did. :/14:07
zaheermhey no worries, the autobuilder is a great service!14:08
jeremiahI'm glad you feel that way. :)14:08
jeremiahI agree.14:08
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javispedroJaffa: hermes is quite a killer app, I see some people in the fansites drooling about it.... :)14:12
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VDVsxjeremiah, zaheerm, it seems to be a garage issue, I had the same results with sane packages weeks ago :)14:13
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zaheermVDVsx, you causing problems remotely with a bluetooth device? :)14:13
Jaffajavispedro: URLs, I need to feel *loved* :)14:15
t_s_omaybe lack of mms support is not so bad after all:
VDVsxzaheerm, nah, the 770 in garage doing the builds has the BT broken ;)14:15
zaheermVDVsx, :)14:15
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murraycJaffa: tbf says that hermes (or anything) isn't allowed by facebook to get phone numbers and addresses, according to their terms of service. Have you found a way around that?14:17
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ensimurrayc: $$$14:19
* RST38h moos at everyone present14:19
* bilboed-pi added himself to the long weekend hackfest requests14:20
Jaffamurrayc: Nope. I haven't looked. Could screenscrape, I guess14:21
ensiemails are stored as pictures in facebook, screenscraping leads to a ban14:21
zaheermbilboed-pi, cool14:21
bilboed-pizaheerm, shame I'm the only one to put the proper country code for bcn though14:21
t_s_oheh, seems spammers are more adept at these kinds of things then legitimate users...14:22
t_s_onot surprising tho, as its the same over at the "pirate" world14:22
andre__tekojo, fyi i've added a comment about my case at . i think it's the same issue.14:22
povbotBug 5450: Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space14:22
VDVsxDEVELOPERS: if you're interested in "UX meets Code hackfest -" hurry up ;)14:22
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bilboed-piVDVsx, you need to do it the Ballmer way14:23
murraycJaffa: tbf thinks you'll have a problem then.14:23
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RST38handre: After #8, you have to reboot14:24
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RST38handre: Because unless it frees up some / space, it won't be able to do anything14:24
RST38handre: In other words, stuff starting with #8 is both predictable and unavoidable without freeing up /14:25
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andre__RST38h, but nobody told me ;-)14:25
jeremiahVDVsx: How dare you say that the build system is on a 770!14:26
andre__first idea i have when running out of space is: uh, i should uninstall something14:26
RST38handre: It told you at step #7 that it fucked up14:26
jeremiahVDVsx: Everyone knows it is a N800!14:26
andre__RST38h, yeah. but not to reboot14:26
RST38handre: That is all the warning you needed :)14:26
andre__to reboot? no. it just tells me that there's no space left.14:26
andre__i'm just an average user (though i use apt-get)14:26
RST38handre: Well, ideally none of this crap should have happened, so why would it tell you to reboot? :)14:27
VDVsxjeremiah, sorry, forgot that you upgraded it last week ;) , but I noticed the increase of speed ;)14:27
andre__RST38h, :-D true14:27
jeremiahandre__: You are almost nearly above average to me. :)14:28
andre__nope. i'm an average user, and i use apt-get because h-a-m is unable to let me install >1 package at a time14:28
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andre__apart from that, everything is average. hence i also love to run into problems unable to solve :-P14:29
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zaheermjeremiah, thx for fixing it14:36
jeremiahI don't think I did actually, but I'll take the credit. =]14:37
jeremiahzaheerm: I think it just died on its own.14:37
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jeremiahI have been rooting around in the logs trying to see what happened, hopefully I can find out.14:37
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DocScrutinizerxchat on N810 occasionally causes watchdog boot. Any recommendations how to "fix" that?15:04
DocScrutinizer(e.g. nice it? or extend watchdog timeout?)15:05
fluxI have no suggestions, but atleast it's not doing that on my n81015:07
fluxalthough I haven't run it for extended periods (perhas a few days at a time)15:07
DocScrutinizerflux: seems to me it's related to some fs-r/w actions of xchat (maybe logs or sth). More often than not the boot is a double-boot which I assume is to run some fsck or sth15:08
fluxoh. I don't use logging in xchat.15:09
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DocScrutinizer(period) strange thing is it happens from multiple times a day to no problems for a month of continuous xchat online15:09
DocScrutinizerflux: (logging) I'm not quite sure. I didn't enable it intentionally, but as I get backlog of channels on start of xchat I guess that's default behaviour15:11
DocScrutinizerI also seem to remember I seen those logfiles in some .dir15:11
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zaheermVDVsx, you know about this?
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KMFDMis there a usable rdesktop client available yet for maemo 5?15:43
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lopzhi ;)15:43
`0660KMFDM, yes15:44
StskeepsKMFDM: define usable15:45
KMFDMwhat's the name of the package and is it in the repos?15:45
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kalikianalook yourself, lazy bone =)15:45
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KMFDMkalikiana, well last time I tried to install the python rdesktop client15:45
KMFDMit wouldn't install15:45
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KMFDMyeah I think I did manage to get rdesktop-cli installed15:46
kalikianathere's a silly python-xml conflict indeed. but you could still see what clients are there and *then* ask how to fix it ;)15:46
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KMFDMI'll look into it more when I'm off of work. I just figured I'd fire off the question in the hope one was working now so that I could use rdesktop to grab some files off one of my computers at home during the commute home. with a bit of luck I'll make time to install linux on that box this weekend solving the need for an rdesktop client15:50
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VDVsxzaheerm, ehehe, cool :)16:00
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KMFDMkalikiana, i had already seen what clients were there. I was hoping there was something new that I had somehow missed.16:04
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zaheerm17/11 is london n900 meetup and i'm in barcelona that day, bit of rotten luck16:11
wjtzaheerm: hmm, URL?16:12
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Messijuego de boxeo online
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fluxdocscrutinizer, indeed, that's a good point now that I think of it, so it must do some logging. I suppose it could just save/resume the state, though, as I (usually?) exit gracefully16:16
kalikianaamazing, tapping on the right egde in pdf viewer goes to the next page16:16
kalikianain case anyone else was wondering for hours16:16
KMFDMthat is nice to know kalikiana. thanks for the tip16:16
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KMFDMyesterday I was so busy reading a book on the pdf viewer in the bus that I went two stops too far16:17
KMFDMor so into the book rather16:17
qwerty12KMFDM: I also worry about doing that on the train...16:18
kalikianaI almost fell in the tram when it went in the curve16:18
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KMFDMqwerty12, on the train it is much worse than the bus. I almost went a stop too far in the tram the other day as well.16:19
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KMFDMkalikiana. I had a similar experience recently also16:19
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carloscesafolks, how can I connect a microphone on my N810 and emmit sound at same time?16:29
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carloscesa'cause when I connect an external microphone, if I emmit any sound, I can just listen it if remove the microphone16:30
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carloscesaSpeedEvil, ^16:30
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jrochalizardo, hi17:14
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jrochalizardo, I updated my SB and tried executing a python hildon program and got this error: ImportError: could not import gobject (error was: 'No module named _gobject'17:14
jrochajust by importing gtk17:15
jrochalizardo, then I tried hermes just to be sure it wasn't my prob and it gave the same error?17:15
jrochamaybe I got my SB all messed up17:15
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jrochaanybody can run hermes on an up-to-date SB?17:16
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mgedminjrocha, what python did you run?17:19
mgedminsbox's python2.3 won't be able to import gtk, I'm sure17:19
mgedminpython2.5 installed into sbox ought to be able to, if you also have the python bindings17:20
mgedminif you run just python, you'll get the wrong ne17:20
infobotmgedmin meant: if you run just python, you'll get the wrong one17:20
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jrochaI ran python2.517:21
jrochasbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~/hermes/package/src] > python2.5 hermes.py17:21
jrochaTraceback (most recent call last):17:21
jrocha  File "", line 2, in <module>17:21
jrocha    import evolution17:21
jrocha  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0/evolution/", line 20, in <module>17:21
jrocha    import ebook17:21
jrochaImportError: could not import gobject (error was: 'No module named _gobject')17:21
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SpeedEvilcarloscesa: sorry - no idea17:23
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carloscesaSpeedEvil, ok, thanks17:24
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zaheermOther letdowns include its poor battery life (compared to the N900 and the HD2) and its hard-to-type keyboard (Droid's keys are flat and shallow and difficult to muster)17:28
jrochalizardo, mgedmin, it seems my upgrade had uninstalled python-gobject17:29
jrochanow it's okay17:29
jrochathank you17:29
zaheermthat's the 2nd review i've read that reports the n900's battery life being at leasta  little bit decent17:29
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mgedminfor values of decent17:29
zaheermit was comparing droid to n900 and htc hd217:29
zaheermmgedmin, i'm impressed other phones have worse battery life :)17:30
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KMFDMI'm impressed with the battery life as well17:30
KMFDMI still wonder why they didn't put in an longer lasting battery though. i'm assuming to bring the costs down17:30
derfAlso size, and weight.17:31
derfThe best way to improve battery life is not adding a bigger battery, but writing better software.17:32
DocScrutinizercosts really isn't an issue when it comes to bat capacity17:32
derfAt least for devices manufactured on this scale.17:32
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RST38hderf: In a lot of situations, you simply can't write better software17:32
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RST38hderf: I.e. the display has to stay lit when the user looks at it, the decoding must go on when watching a movie, etc17:33
lizardojrocha: It seems you have not added the "extras-devel" repository to your scratchbox target's sources.list17:33
derfRST38h: You can't make _all_ software better, but there's _lots_ of low-hanging fruit in a typical softwrae stack.17:33
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RST38hderf: Nokia seems to have collected all the low-hanging fruit by now17:33
lizardojrocha: but if you got to make it work now, good to know :)17:33
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derfRST38h: Right, and that's why their battery life is actually somwhat decent.17:33
RST38hderf: They basically handled the 12-hour use scenario17:34
RST38hderf: But 8-hour airplane trip scenario is still out of reach17:34
derfWhen the iPhone first came out, I had people telling me they got about 2 hours out of a charge.17:34
DocScrutinizerit's all about resource management and selecting good hw components17:35
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DocScrutinizerfor LCD-backlight e.g. there's just so much you can do17:35
RST38hsame goes for video decoding and to some degree for audio decoding17:36
derfWell, you can always improve the decoders.17:36
RST38hthat is why the airplane scenario is so difficult17:36
SpeedEvildecoders may not be a software issue.17:36
DocScrutinizeryou can't as they are in DSP on N900 aiui17:36
SpeedEvilIn that hardware units can buy you an order of magnitude.17:36
RST38hderf: Only to a point17:36
derfDocScrutinizer: Well, _you_ can't. But a DSP is programmable.17:37
derfRST38h: It has continued to surprise me how much that point can be moved.17:37
RST38hderf: It is computational activity. Some hw unit inside your chip still has to do it, and it costs power17:37
RST38hderf: The video decoding? Have not seen it moved that much lately17:37
DocScrutinizerderf: simply reprogramming the DSP won't help much. The algos are quite optimized usually17:37
derfRST38h: I'm referring specifically to my experience with libtheora.17:38
RST38hderf: Oh that...17:38
RST38hderf: Well it was shitty to begin with =(17:38
RST38hStill is, based on my experience playing OGG files on Windows17:38
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mgedminactually, writing poorer software is a good way to prolong battery life17:39
derfIf the platform has any relevance at all, it is probably not the codecs' fault.17:39
mgedminjust make sure the user won't use the device and leave it idling17:39
zaheermderf, i am told that there is a dsp implementation of the theora decoder being worked on that is almost complete17:39
RST38hmgedmin: Isn't this the N8x0 approach?17:39
derfzaheerm: That is correct.17:39
zaheermderf, for the beagleboard17:39
derfThere's a git repository up.17:39
zaheermso i guess it'll work on the n900 too17:39
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derfThat's the plan.17:40
zaheermderf, oh where is the git repo?17:40
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derfThe first is the host-side code, the latter two are the dsp-side libraries.17:41
RST38hAnyone can give me an idea on how to implement accelerometer middle-point config?17:41
orbarronmorning all17:42
zaheermderf, yah ds was meant to show us a demo while we were in California last weekend but things screwed up so he couldn't17:42
derfRST38h: Anyway, my point was, even if you think you've optimized something very well, there's always some other non-obvious transformation that makes things just a little bit cheaper...17:42
SpeedEvilderf: But that's generally unimportant.17:43
derfSpeedEvil: It's important when it's something that runs 100,000 times a frame.17:43
SpeedEvilderf: As modern IC processes mean that a _huge_ fraction of the power usage is idle current17:43
SpeedEvilderf: So going from 8% to 6% DSP usage on an algorithm won't help much with battery life.17:43
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RST38hderf: Common sense says that there should be an end to these transformations =)17:44
derfIf idle current were the problem, then the 8-hour plane ride wouldn't be substantially different from the 12-hour day.17:44
derfRST38h: Sure, but by then they'll have new chips out.17:44
derfAnd new chips means more possible transformations!17:44
SpeedEvilIdle current - if you can stop various clocks may drop lots.17:44
RST38hSpeedEvil: By modern ICs, do you specifically mean x86s?17:44
SpeedEvilRST38h: not really.17:45
RST38hSpeedEvil: Then you are not entirely correct17:45
derfClockless logic is _hard_.17:45
DocScrutinizerRST38h: what's middlepoint calib?17:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: Most processors - in their 'running' modes use ~1/3 of the normal power as idle, only saving lots of power when you clock them way down, or suspend them in various ways.17:45
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: 3240 does that zeroclock quite smart17:46
RST38hSpeedEvil: Correct. So, you suspend them.17:46
RST38hDocScrut: the position of the N900 that is considered "neutral" when using accelerometer to control a game17:47
SpeedEvilit can be tricky in media cases, as often the 'soundcard' won't carry on when you play.17:47
SpeedEvilwhen you suspend17:47
RST38hSpeedEvil: Then you do not suspend when you want the audio on17:47
RST38hSpeedEvil: In any case, suspending the tablet as much as possible is what Maemo does17:47
derfIt's what everyone does these days. "Race to idle."17:48
SpeedEvilRST38h: Indeed - I was just pointing out that it might not be as simple as halving the CPU usage of a codec doubles battery life.17:48
RST38hSpeedEvil: And a lot of effort is spent on making sure that applications do not wake it too often17:48
SpeedEvilOr attempting to.17:48
RST38hSpeedEvil: Well, if you have a CPU that suspends to some degree on HALT (or similar instruction), then all you need to do is finish decoding earlier and HALT waiting for VBlank17:48
RST38hSpeedEvil: This is pretty much how GBA handles power saving17:49
DocScrutinizerRST38h: hmm, seems you need a "button" to trigger a readout of all 3 axes to consider hat as middlepoint then, and calculate deviation from the calculated midpoint gravity vector17:49
RST38hDocScrut: I guess so, the question is what button and how do I convey this to the end user17:49
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EscafaneDoes anyone know what replaces libgpsbt in Fremantle?17:49
SpeedEvilRST38h: And yes, it's all doable - it's just in real life in many hardware designs you have constraints that mean that suspending instantly is problematic. Software is highly constrained in the power reduction it can obtain by the hardware limits.17:51
qwerty12Escafane: liblocation17:51
RST38hSpeedEvil: That is what makes ARM based designs special: they are easier to suspend17:51
RST38hSpeedEvil: Suspending a modern x86 is somewhat problematic though17:51
JamieBennettjeremiah: any news on that ftp space?17:51
SpeedEvilRST38h: yes, some ARM.17:52
derfRST38h: It's almost like ARM was designed with this in mind.17:52
DocScrutinizerlike 324017:52
Escafaneqwerty12: Thanks. Do you happen to know if the interface is similar or has changed a lot?17:52
RST38hGod, people, could somebody with N900 check out MG,fMSX,Speccy,and ColEm in Extras-testing and vote on them?17:52
RST38hderf: Well it was desgined to be simple, which always helps17:52
qwerty12Escafane: No idea, sorry. The API reference can be found here:
RST38hTakes forever to get apps promoted :(17:53
Escafaneqwerty12: Thanks, I'll take a look17:53
SpeedEvilRST38h: I should really investigate teh n900 hardware in depth - but I'm waiting to see if my order (with multiple vouchers at about half price) is honoroed.17:53
RST38hMultiple vouchers? Ah you freeloader =)17:54
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* DocScrutinizer wishes Nokia had even confirmed the shipping at 11-25 now. Expects to see further delays17:55
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RST38hDisturbing thing is that N900 is no longer an exclusive product in its class17:55
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RST38hPlenty of 800x480 tablet-like smartphones out now17:56
derfOnly one I can get root on.17:56
DocScrutinizerfew with semi-open linux though17:56
RST38hderf: Does not matter for a general consumer17:56
derfSure, but it matters to me.17:56
RST38hAs far as Joe Sixpack cares, it is no different from Droid or HTC HD217:56
qwerty12RST38h: Well, I guess it is like they say: bugs are still being fixed, as referenced by the fix of that scrolling application menu issue, yesterday17:56
DocScrutinizerguess we all don't think of ourselves as general consumers ;-)17:57
RST38hOr that Sony Xperia thing17:57
SpeedEvilRST38h: Well - yes and no - I'd hope to be doing useful dev-work if I get it.17:57
SuurorcaActually I'm  a lot more happier if I won't be seeing every bloke talking to the same device I have ;p17:57
Suurorcaand xperia1 was such a piece of juvk it's quite a hurdle to buy if successor17:57
RST38hWell, it is all nice and dandy, but if N900 does not make Nokia money, we may not get N100017:58
Suurorcablah. they aren't expecting any real profit until maemo6 devices come out17:58
derfRST38h: My point is, developer ecosystem is important.17:59
RST38hSuu: They are expecting public interest. If the public interest is not there, why continue with Maemo6?17:59
SpeedEvilBut maemo6 may not come out if 5 isn't enough17:59
Suurorcait's too fad in the development now to be dropped17:59
DocScrutinizernope, Nokia explained verbatim Maemo is future of all their smartphones17:59
SpeedEvilno, it's not.17:59
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SpeedEvilNothing is too far in development to be dropped, if the company chooses to do so.18:00
SpeedEvilIt may be practically impossible to drop, but ...18:00
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SpeedEvilAnd it may be buisness insanity - but companies have made really odd decisions before.18:00
* RST38h hopes it is the future: once he started using N900 as his primary communicator, going back to Symbian feels like a trip to the concentration camp18:00
DocScrutinizerbut they want to see revenue from all that linux stuff18:00
Suurorcatrue enough. I'll rephrase: They'd have to be insane to drop it, which they might very well be18:00
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SpeedEvilAnd if they can't see that coming over the horizon are eleven million chinese vendors all with some flavour of linux on their phones...18:01
zaheermat the stackoverflow devday in london, the nokia guy said maemo was the little sister in nokia18:01
zaheermhe is obviously an s60 guy :)18:01
SpeedEvilProbably a few dozen people in nokia are really involved with the descisions.18:02
SpeedEvilThe rest will only know what they are told.18:02
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SpeedEvilWhich may not be the whole truth for many reasons.18:02
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RST38hSpeed: Nobody cares of Chinese vendors, Precious few manage to reach sufficient quality to become marketable18:06
RST38hSpeed: I can think of 3-4 at most18:06
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: of course, as getting things right on a mobile device with linux isn't that a nobrainer - you can tell from maemo ;-) Also chinese idea of FOSS is really weird18:10
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Milo-please n900, ship soon!18:36
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Milo-this stupid e71 AGAIN complains that my memory is full18:36
Milo-how and why!18:37
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Milo-ah, it tries to tell me that I have low battery, but fails :D18:39
rangeSomeone needs a spare brain it seems.18:39
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* mango_make awaits n900 also, but wonders what contract / pricning will be like18:40
DocScrutinizermango_make: contract?18:41
* mango_make had been ponderign which of the android bredd to go for when suddenly the n900 was announced18:41
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mgedminnotional price is 600 EUR without a contract in europe18:41
mango_makeDocScrutinizer: mobile phone network contract18:41
mgedminpeople have been finding random deals18:41
DocScrutinizermango_make: N900 subsidized is rare atm18:42
mango_makeso prob about £35 / month for 18 months i guess18:42
mgedminheh, "rare"18:42
SpeedEvilUK at least you can get it easily18:42
mgedminfor values of "you can't buy one until next week anyway"18:42
SpeedEvilIreland vodafone have stated they will be carrying it18:42
SpeedEvilAs a 'normal' phone18:42
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mango_makeive notplayed with qt4 much yet, but am in the process of developing a product (embedded), and it seems to be a very attractive solution now18:43
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mango_makehad dabbled with qt embedded some years ago18:43
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mango_makeknocking up a ui in designer was sheerevsimplicity .. had demo for client in a couple of hours18:44
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DocScrutinizerqt is easy, but a resource hog18:45
mango_makeso will be gettign right into qt4 hence the maemo qt4 project sounds very interesting, would love to get a n900 and get involved18:45
mgedminwhat's the status of qt on maemo 5?  do apps have the native finger-friendly look and feel?18:46
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mgedminI get all confused with all those different versions (qt 4.5 is out, 4.6 is in beta --- or something like that)18:47
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abDNA in Finland is selling N900 for 23.90/mo on 24-month contract18:48
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Flandryanyone have a good reference for debian packaging beyond what's in the new mainainer's guide?18:48
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zaheermmgedmin, i don't think they do yet18:50
mgedminthe debian policy manual18:50
mgedminalso, the maemo policy manual, which is a small diff on top of the debian policy manual18:50
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mgedminFlandry, ^18:50
Flandryi think i've been through that, too18:50
Flandryi'll check again18:51
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* Flandry shudders in fear at going to the dev.m.o server18:56
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Flandrymgedmin:are you referring to this pdf from 2008:
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KhertanHi everyone !19:11
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KhertanSomeone here use pluthon on ubuntu ?.19:13
pupnikevening khertan :)  still enjoying n900?19:18
Khertanevening pupnik19:18
Khertanyep a lot :)19:18
Khertanjust some hildon things and the gtk theme which annoy me on some things19:18
Khertanfor example gtk.FileChooserDialog is unusable19:19
Khertanand Hildon.FileChooserDialog doesn't let you showing extension19:19
Khertanjust an example19:19
Khertanor gtksourceview which is really slow when use in a hildon.pannablearea ... and scrollbar is unusable ... :)19:20
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Khertanoh my god ... hildon.FileChooser isn't in the pymaemo hildon documentation19:32
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keesjI don't like python bindings for that "it's just like the c version so read the documentation there".19:35
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Khertan <<< this one ?19:36
Khertani didn't see it too19:37
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Khertanhi gnuton19:42
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gnutonHei Khertan ;D19:42
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gnutonis user/desktop a valid debian category for maemo5 packages?19:43
VDVsxgnuton, yup19:43
gnutonVDVsx: okay thanx19:44
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VDVsxfor future reference ;)19:45
gnutonVDVsx: thaks that page is what I was looking for ;D19:45
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Flandryso hard to actually *find* anything19:51
Khertanspecially if they continue to use an Nokia 770 as a webserver19:51
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lizardoKhertan: yes, it is one of these Python API missing documentation... feel free to report a bug on this : ... for now see for how to use it19:52
Flandryand an iphone app as the wiki software19:52
Khertanlizardo: i'm currently looking at the c documentation19:52
lizardokeesj: for sure we don't assume it, but unfortunately ATM we lack man power to quickly improve the documentation :(19:52
lizardokeesj: but we are slowly fixing and updating it19:52
Khertanlizardo: but i haven't still found what i'm looking for ...19:52
Khertanlizardo: showing file extension in filechooserdialog :)19:53
Flandryi think that's under "media player"19:53
lizardoKhertan: oh, so actually you know how to use hildon.FileChooserDialog, but not how to show file extension?19:53
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Khertanlizardo: yep ... this is exactly that19:54
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Khertanand i must also enter a bug for the root_dir because setting something else than '/' result in segfault19:54
lizardoKhertan: well, anyway I don't know either... :/ if nothing in the C documentation mentions it, I think it is better to ask the hildon guys if it is possible at all19:54
Khertanlizardo: but before whinning i was just looking at the doc :)19:55
lizardoKhertan: please do that, so that we can check the behavior against the C code19:55
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Khertanjust need to provide a simple case example :)19:55
Khertanbut my current source code editor isn't finish yet ... so i can't save it :)19:56
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lizardoKhertan: no problem :) at the time I worked on the hildon.FileChooserDialog, I had hardtime to discover that you needed the FileSystemModel set to use it19:56
Khertani didn't want to use vi anymore :)19:56
lizardothe C documentation was not clear on that regard19:56
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Khertanlizardo: héhé ... i use python in the command line with dir() and help() :)19:58
Khertanand passing stupid argument give errors saying what is the required arguments19:58
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lizardoKhertan: yes, unfortunately help() doesn't work very well for most Python bindings because they usually lack the docstrings... (specially python-hildon), and it does not list the keyword arguments20:00
Khertanyep ... just pass wrong argument ... and python say it20:00
Khertanor segfault :)20:01
Khertani didn't see nothing about file extension in the hildonfm c documentation !(20:02
* Khertan is asking to the ml20:02
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FlandryI may have shot myself in the foot on a packaging decision.20:02
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*** javispedro changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | UX meets Code hackfest -"20:05
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KhertanFlandry: this time when i want to package something i'm still think that they didn't want command line application in users/*  in extras ... so i stop myself doing it20:05
zaheermKhertan, so the inbuilt media player can't handle external subtitles :(20:06
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Khertanzaheerm: yep20:06
zaheermKhertan, but it'd be easy to write a gst based media player that did20:06
VDVsxjavispedro, want did you changed ? o_020:06
Khertantoo bad20:06
zaheermKhertan, and then would of course use the dsp optimised decoders20:06
zaheermKhertan, i guess a hack could be done to the mafw gst renderer to get it done in the main media player20:07
javispedroVDVsx: weird %c2%a0 characters after the URLs which confuse X-Chat20:07
javispedro(interpret that as urlencoded string)20:07
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VDVsxjavispedro, weird, everything seems fine here20:08
qwerty12javispedro: Oh, to answer your question on Talk:
javispedroVDVsx: notice the links20:09
javispedrothey confuse the logging bot too.20:09
javispedroqwerty12: more evil points.20:10
javispedroit's a nice song.20:10
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VDVsxjavispedro, can't see anything wrong :P, nevermind20:10
javispedroVDVsx: try clicking on the link on the log!20:11
VDVsxjavispedro, yup,got it :)20:11
javispedroVDVsx: if you don't get a NXDOMAIN I want a copy of your browser20:12
javispedroVDVsx: ah, ok :)20:12
Flandryis there actually, in fact, a Maemo packaging policy wiki?20:13
javispedroI don't know who puts those weird characters there, but I guess it has something to with OS X >:)20:13
VDVsxjavispedro, grab a copy here:  :P20:13
javispedrohehe, but you get a NXDOMAIN :)20:14
VDVsxjavispedro, do you use OS X ?20:14
javispedroI didn't put the characters, I just edited the topic20:15
* VDVsx blames GAN900 20:15
javispedro :)20:15
javispedrogreat game. not usable with the current mouse emu in drnoksnes though :(20:15
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VDVsxjavispedro, lolol, from where you can upload songs, if this runs in a SNES ?20:18
javispedroVDVsx: there are a few "reimaginations" of the original minigame developed for win3220:19
VDVsxhumm, ok :)20:19
javispedroeven though this one seems the real deal20:19
javispedroso most probably it was camcorded or emulated on pc20:19
javispedroer.. sorry20:19
javispedrono, it is not the real deal :)20:19
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FlandryWhat's the right way to create a package for game content that requires no compilation?20:26
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javispedroFlandry: grab any existing -data package on extras for a template20:27
javispedrothe basic idea is Architecture: all20:27
javispedroin the control file20:27
Flandryinstead of any20:27
javispedrothe autobuilder will only build it in 386 mode then put it in both the 386 and armel repos20:27
javispedro(actually will create a "*_all.deb" package20:28
Flandryi still specify a source package though?20:28
Flandryok thanks20:28
javispedroyour rules file will just have instructions to move things around20:28
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Flandrythere has got to be a dummies guide to packaging somewhere to get people started on these things20:31
ccookeOh, yes. Is anyone aware of a decent alarm clock for the n900 yet?20:31
derfJust do what everyone else does. Find a package that works and copy what it does.20:31
* ccooke might end up using bash again :-)20:32
RST38hisn't built-in alarm clock enough?20:33
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* RST38h laughs maniacally: it took Moto Droid to make Google finally FIX mobile GMail20:34
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Flandrythe problem with imitating prior art is that just because it works doesn't mean it does everything the way it should be done20:37
Flandryi create enough errors of my own without propagating upstream ones :D20:37
javispedroso, grab the prior art, try to do follow it, then correct it if you find any issues within it.20:39
javispedrodon't expect to make things better than upstream _by asking upstream_ ;)20:39
dmj7261guys, I think we can do a better video editor than the iphone!20:40
derfWhen it comes to packaging, "having something working" is far more important than "having something perfect".20:40
ccookeRST38h: the built-in alarm clock is broken in the same way the n810s was :-/20:40
ccookenamely, it blocks when it produces a dialog box20:40
derfIf the package is used a lot, any problems will get fixed. If it isn't, they weren't worth fixing.20:41
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* ccooke tends to need two or three alarms to wake up. If the first one doesn't wake me, the second and third won't go off until you respond to the first one's popup.20:42
Flandryalso a problem when the repository is down...20:42
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Mouseyoh! you guys'll like this too20:47
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javispedrowhy Dalvik. It's also an abomination!20:48
Flandryat that point, why not just . . . use Maemo?20:49
GeneralAntillesFlandry, we need more mindshare.20:49
* Flandry ponders creating an android app called silver-bullet that would kill it20:51
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GeneralAntillesandre__, Maemo fails spectacularly when the rootfs is fool. No surprises there. ;)20:56
penguinbaitfoolish rootfs20:59
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javispedrowell, unfoolish it21:04
* bilboed needs to find some UX guys who're coming to bcn who'd like to work on a video editor for N8XX/N90021:05
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Suurorca*stares in utter astonoshment at the android slides*21:06
Suurorcahow could they f***k it up that bad...21:06
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bilboedit's google21:07
Stskeepsthe android mythbusters one?21:07
kovdoes anyone know where can I find the sources for the patched gtk+ used in fremantle? I looked at the gitorious projects, but couldn't find it21:07
Stskeepskov, stage and repository.maemo.org21:07
kovthe closest I found to that was the mer repository, but that looks a bit outdated21:07
StskeepsSuurorca: those slides made me happy about maemo even if it is sometimes awkward code21:08
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javispedrobilboed: i'm sure your get a lot of them, a video editor is something that could potentially be a "star" app21:08
* bilboed nods21:09
bilboedjavispedro, didn't I see your name in the list of potential attendees ?21:09
kovStskeeps, thank you!21:09
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dmj7261bilboed: I'd like to work on a video editor!21:10
bilboedbasically the deal is this : I can create all the lower-level/middleware needed to make one21:10
dmj7261not sure about making it to Barthelona though?21:10
bilboedbut I totally/utterly/completely suck at UI21:10
javispedrobilboed: I'm on the "long weeked" attendees list21:10
bilboedjavispedro, yay21:10
dmj7261I sketched out a ui for a video editor just now on a deck of cards.21:11
bilboedI'll be piling up ideas/code for the weekend, got other stuff in the meantime21:11
dmj7261it's not the cleanest ui, but I was trying to cram a lot of functionality in.21:12
bilboedbut will most likely do a small talk about what's available, what can be done, what needs to be done from a middleware/lower-level point-of-view21:12
Robot101Stskeeps: is there a list of maemo components vs whats in mer, btw?21:12
dmj7261bilboed: Have you done work on video editing before?21:12
bilboeddmj7261, I wrote pitivi21:12
dmj7261oh great!21:13
dmj7261would you like to see my sketch?21:13
derfbilboed: :)21:13
bilboedderf, you ? here ? :)21:13
derfI've been here for like, 2 and a half years.21:13
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bilboedguys, I've got to go pick up my gf who came back from a 10 day trip abroad... so I'm gonna be afk for some time. But I'll be back for further details. Just wanted to plant the seeds21:14
bilboedderf, same for me I guess... but never really talked/chatted :)21:14
RST38hderf: too long.21:14
derfRST38h: No joke.21:14
bilboedbasically... the first thing I told Nokia when they presented the N770 at Guadec 2005 was ... "I want pitivi on that"21:15
bilboedtime to make that a reality :)21:15
* bilboed gets the $#@*($# out of here21:15
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* RST38h has been using IRC since 1993 or so21:15
RST38hLong, LONG time21:15
StskeepsRobot101: working on openness data and using that i will generate a list21:16
GeneralAntillesSuurorca, really not surprised here. ;)21:16
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StskeepsRobot101: any special wishes?21:16
RST38hComcast's COO, Steve Burke, recently urged the TV industry to find ways to "get consumers to change" rather than figure out better methods to cater to demand.21:17
Robot101Stskeeps: we're pondering a project based on Mer for a client, wanted to know if there was any information lying around about the gaps between it and Maemo21:18
Robot101Stskeeps: the obvious stuff is the apps but we can pick apps from the Maemo communoty, or modify GNOME or Moblin things, and a bunch of Mer bits need updating for the final Fremantle versions of stuff21:19
Robot101Stskeeps: but I'm more concerned about the hidden stuff behind the curtain, the little plugins, daemons and patches which you don't find unless you really dig :)21:19
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Robot101like dsme. what does it really do? watchdog and, er, misc, and other. and turn the display controller off while X is trying to use it. :)21:19
Robot101some policy things behind the curtains, like badgering audio/video/etc21:20
Robot101bunch of pulseaudio plugins21:20
Robot101everyone's favourite sgx drivers21:20
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StskeepsRobot101: :nod: pulse is not our strongest area but we do have it from ubuntu21:20
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Robot101pulse is ass on the desktop for voip calls too21:21
Robot101no echo cancellation or audio enhancements at all21:21
Robot101voip calls sound 10 times better on the N900 versus my laptop for basically that reason21:21
Robot101free software fails quite badly at echo cancellation21:21
Stskeepswe practically take what we can get our hands on. check OBS, Maemo:Mer:Devel:MaemoCommon21:21
Robot101how deep does that go? if there are little tweaks to libfoo and libbar in maemo but not in ubuntu, do you pull those in?21:22
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Stskeepsdepends if they are functionally relevant21:22
Robot101is the goal specifically to be a port of maemo "userland" onto ubuntu baseline, or is it basically to re-integrate every maemo component possible using ubuntu/OBS infrastructure?21:23
Robot101or, somewhere between the two21:23
FlandryCould not resolve ''21:24
derfRobot101: What free echo cancellers have you tried?21:24
FlandryIs this some comcast fail or is the problem on maemo end?21:24
Stskeepsmm. can i answer when im home?21:24
Robot101Stskeeps: sure, didn't mean to bother you21:25
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GeneralAntillesFlandry, as a Comcast customer, I'm strongly inclined to blame them for connection issues 100% of the time.21:26
StskeepsRobot101: nah, i shouldnt irc when walking :P21:26
Flandryoh, a fellow sodomite21:26
Robot101Stskeeps: haha... N900 are waaay too addictive :)21:27
GeneralAntillesFlandry, worst part is, I came from using Bright House.21:27
GeneralAntillesWhich is worlds better than FiOS, even.21:27
GeneralAntillesRobot101 is going to be responsible for Stskeeps getting hit by a bus.21:28
Robot101GeneralAntilles: me and the rest of the maemo developers...? :D21:28
* Robot101 doesn't have enough crack on his device21:29
* Robot101 adds extras-devel too21:29
Flandryi can ping the repository fine from the box21:29
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Flandrywhy does it fail to resolve for apt :/21:29
GeneralAntillesRobot101, nah, just you specifically since you're the one distracting him right now. :P21:29
qwerty12_N900Flandry: standard answer: check /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf and the target's /etc/resolv.conf21:30
Robot101GeneralAntilles: if he wasn't on IRC with me, he'd just be on facebook or twitter or :)21:30
Flandryresolv.conf is the same in both this time21:30
GeneralAntillesRobot101, we're all in Talkaholics Anonymous here.21:30
Flandrythat did work last time though ;)21:30
Robot101GeneralAntilles: I get on really really badly with web forums, so I'm clean at the moment21:31
* Robot101 would like an NNTP gateway... :D21:31
* GeneralAntilles is 46 hours clean.21:32
GeneralAntillesDropping Talk felt even better than when I unsubbed from -users.21:32
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: Oh, BTW, I resent your remark about me wanting one-handed usage and access to certain sites. You know I could care less about portrait mode!21:32
Flandryadded a known good dns to resolv and it works21:32
Flandryyay for comcast21:32
Flandryi don't know enough about linux networking to know why putting the repo in hosts didn't work though21:33
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, psh.21:33
GeneralAntillesResemble, more like.21:34
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qwerty12_N900I've got a good idea for Talk's front page: One of those Javascript IRC clients that will take you straight into #maemo...21:35
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* GeneralAntilles foams at the mouth.21:36
qwerty12_N900Should I add it to Brainstorm? =)21:36
javispedroI have an even better idea, say this is the "official sales channel"21:36
javispedroand don't put "when is it released" in the FAQ.21:36
qwerty12_N900"Get your N8X0 3D drivers here!"21:36
* Mousey perks up21:37
* javispedro wants21:37
Mouseyits a SHAM21:38
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* Mousey lurks21:38
fiferboyVDVsx, anyone else that uses personal-photo-frame:  Could you comment on bug #6035 ?21:38
povbotBug Make better use of the widget space21:38
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fiferboyVDVsx: I know you have already commented, but I have outline a solution that I would like feedback on L)21:39
infobotfiferboy meant: VDVsx: I know you have already commented, but I have outline a solution that I would like feedback on :)21:39
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Flandryusing openttd-data as an example may have been a bad idea21:43
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javispedroFlandry: yes21:44
javispedrounless your plan is to also allow Maemo4 "install-to-card" compatibility21:44
Flandrythere's not even a control file here for -data oO21:45
Flandryoh that's what that mess is for21:45
GeneralAntillesQuick poll for those of you with N900s: do you shoot in widescreen or fullscreen mode?21:45
javispedronot only that, but the same source package builds for most maemo versions.21:45
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Flandrywas that one of those "just because you can" things?21:46
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javispedromore like "because I was not going to do otherwise" things21:47
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: With this camera - widescreen.  I don't think the extra pixels buy me much21:48
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, photoframe defaults to fullscreen, right?21:48
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: There isn't really a fullscreen right now (too many layout problems)21:49
fiferboyI think it defaults to medium21:49
fiferboyYep, medium.  315 pixels square21:49
GeneralAntillesErm, sorry, ratio, not size.21:49
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fiferboyOh.  It will display whatever ratio your photo is at21:50
fiferboyIt maintains aspect ratio.  So the closer you are to 1:1 the large the aparent size21:50
GeneralAntillesHrm, maybe it didn't in an older version?21:50
fiferboyIt didn't auto rotate in the older version, but the aspect ratio should always have worked21:51
fiferboyYou seeing a problem?21:51
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GeneralAntillesOnly from memory.21:52
fiferboyYour memory?  Or photos on the phones internal memory?  :)21:52
GeneralAntillesMy memory. ;)21:52
fiferboyFile a bug, but I don't think I'll be able to fix it...21:53
fiferboyBug description:  I remember your widget not working, but it actually works spectacularly well21:53
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Flandrythere's no control file for supertux-data-stable21:56
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Flandryi'm apparently more confused than i thought21:56
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javispedrodo m4 < debian/control.m4 > debian/control21:58
javispedroand you'll get your control file :)21:58
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javispedroor at least, the interesting parts of it.21:59
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Flandrythere is no control.m4 file21:59
Flandry208.50.77.144   repository.maemo.org22:00
Flandryoops sorry22:00
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javispedroFlandry: where are you looking at exactly? Package: supertux-data-stable22:00
javispedrosupertux-stable-0.1.3] > ls debian/control22:01
StskeepsRobot101: main direction is along the lines of having a fully portable maemo platform that is shared between mer and maemo (all the common stuff), mer bases on top of ubuntu, maemo bases on what they want, maemo is targetted for nokia devices and has properitary stuff in their core, mer is controlled by community and has 100% oss core, but may have closed stuff in hw support22:01
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Stskeepsan app that is developed towards maemo platform api should run on both :P22:02
Flandrythat's the control file for supertux-stable22:02
Flandrywhich is why i'm confused22:03
javispedroFlandry: look at it carefully. specially at the bottom.22:03
javispedrosupertux-stable is the source package name22:03
javispedroa source package can build into more than one package22:03
Flandryoh poo22:03
Flandrydidn't look after the uu garbage22:03
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Flandryi've been through that a few times22:04
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StskeepsRobot101: so if api demands we patch a lib with something, we do that.. we did that in glib and gtk for instance22:04
Flandrybut seeing the other package at the bottom helps22:05
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StskeepsRobot101: gaps are mostly on version levels as we didn't finish updating everything to final SDK just yet22:07
Stskeepsand sometimes we might even be ahead in versions from SDK22:07
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Flandrywell, it's hard to know exactly which rules are required for the data package, but it looks like what i'm already doing22:10
Flandrythe Architecture: all is the main thing22:11
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javispedrosome then consider separate binary-arch and binary-indep rule sets in their rules file22:12
Robot101emerillon needs some hildinification :)22:13
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greenflyqwerty12_N900: figured out how to at least modify the keyboard shortcut bar for the xterm22:35
qwerty12_N900greenfly: By playing with its GConf keys? :)22:38
greenflyqwerty12_N900: yup22:38
greenflystill can't seem to get a Meta or Alt key though22:38
greenflybut at least I have quick access to |22:39
greenflyoh, wow. I can't believe I went this long without realizing Esc in a terminal does the same thing as Alt(Meta)22:43
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wiretappedgreenfly: i use the UK layout so shift-! is |22:50
wiretappedand - is available without shift22:50
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greenflywiretapped: interesting...22:51
wiretappedthe uk layout is much more terminal-friendly22:51
greenflybasically I just wanted to be able to more easily shift between windows in irssi22:52
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greenflyso I was trying to get Meta working, until just now when I found out I could use Esc22:52
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wiretappednice, i didn't realize you could do that before :)22:52
* wiretapped has been typing /win<tab> #22:53
greenflyyeah same here :)22:53
greenflybut then, it took me years of using irssi before I saw someone mention that Meta-q takes you to window 11, meta-w window 12, and so on22:54
greenflyI used to try to keep things limited to just 10 windows for that reason22:54
yuizyi use ctrl+w and ctrl+t for going to previous and next window22:55
yuizyin my n81022:55
yuizy(not in default binds)22:55
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* wiretapped picks up his jaw from the floor22:56
wiretappedo m g22:56
* wiretapped is really glad he popped in to #maemo just now22:57
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* w00t hugs meta+a22:58
w00tand window_switcher.pl22:58
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dmj7261is the n900 screen very slightly smaller than the iphone one?22:59
* wiretapped just discovered meta-a also22:59
* wiretapped has 30 windows open and is finally learning irssi window management keys23:00
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w00twiretapped: get window_switcher.pl23:03
greenflyyeah now that irssi is manageable on the n900 all that's left for me is a few browser UI changes to make google reader sane, and some way to sync multiple google calendars23:03
w00tyou will never look back23:03
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dmj7261could someone report the width and height of the screen in mm?23:09
GeneralAntillesdmj7261, it's 15:923:10
GeneralAntillesdmj7261, 3.5" diagonal23:10
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dmj7261yeah, but I heard that it was 45 mm by 75 mm, which is slightly smaller, particularly the height.23:11
GeneralAntillesiPhone is 16:923:11
GeneralAntilles3.5" is always a bigger area the closer you get to 1:1.23:12
SpeedEvil(to circular)23:12
GeneralAntilles211x127mw is what that claims23:13
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: 211x127mm is what that claims23:13
SpeedEvil311*127mm would be nice for a 3.5" screen23:14
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yuizydoes n900 have a "Tab" key?23:16
dmj7261n900 has a 3.44 inch display according to that, while iphone is actually 3.623:16
GeneralAntillesyuizy, no, but it's simple enough to bind one.23:18
greenflyyuizy: or you can use Ctrl-i in a terminal23:18
yuizywell i don't want to ctrl+something23:18
greenflythe xterm has the Tab shortcut button in the toolbar23:18
GeneralAntillesIt wont kill you.23:19
GeneralAntillesWe promise.23:19
yuizyi use tab as alt+a in all other platforms23:19
yuizyit makes idling at irc much easier23:19
greenflyyuizy: the xterm has that Ctrl lock on the toolbar23:19
yuizyyou need two hands for pressing to ctrl+i23:19
greenflyjust engage that and then hit 'i' a bunch23:19
yuizycome on23:20
yuizyrequires two presses23:20
greenflyrequires a press to lock it, but then each i press sends a tab23:20
greenflyuntil you unlock ctrl23:20
yuizytoo hard for me23:20
greenflyor you could hit the tab shortcut on the toolbar. just one press23:20
GeneralAntillesyuizy, you need two hands to hold the N900. :)23:21
greenflysounds like you need to invest in a bt keyboard then23:21
yuizyGeneralAntilles: really?23:21
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yuizyis it that big23:21
GeneralAntillesIt's just pointless trying to one-thumb the keyboard.23:21
GeneralAntillesIt'll be unbalanced and wont work well.23:21
GeneralAntillesyuizy, :roll:23:22
greenflyyuizy: for irssi it'll be easy for you23:22
yuizyi can just rebind some other key23:22
greenflyyuizy: the xterm has touch-screen shortcuts along the bottom23:22
greenflyTab is one of them23:22
yuizythen i can use only one hand23:22
greenflyso you can even slide the keyboard back in, and just hit Tab on the screen23:22
yuizyi.e. if i'm walking it's easier to use only one hand23:22
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javispedrothis is what happens when you hack around hildon-desktop too much -->
greenflyheh oops23:35
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RST38hoh, I know this picture23:36
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javispedroRST38h: from?23:38
javispedroI'm trying to guess what's going on. I think I've pinpointed it to the glReadPixels call23:38
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RST38hjavis: well, pixel format is wrong23:42
RST38hjavis: and the line width too, judging from the way it is shifted23:43
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zemmi just found out there is actually s60 putty with touch ui that has 4-way swipe gestures: bind left/right-swipes to alt+left/right-keys and up/down-swipes to page up/down -keys.. and now i'm afraid that mobile irssi experience will degrade with switch to n900 :'(23:43
javispedroRST38h: I think its random though.23:43
RST38hjavis: It may, but there does seem to be a pattern to it23:44
ShadowJKputty on s60 degraded alot for me when they switched to that stupid dialpad emulation thingy for non-keyboard symbols :/23:44
zemmbut the swipes are still amazing for scrolling and window switching ;(23:44
javispedroRST38h: yeah, there's always a pattern, but the data changes. now I'm in front of a completely white one with periodic red stripes23:44
javispedrowhile the texture should've been the same23:45
RST38hso it copies random garbage there23:45
javispedroseems so.23:45
javispedrodo you think that is blurred?23:45
javispedroI have my doubts with so large pixels23:45
RST38hno, it is just garbage if it changes so much from time to time23:46
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javispedrothe animation is awful. I don't know if more random data is being introduced as part of the blurring animation algorithm or its just an artifact of trying to blur such an high frequency artifact23:48
javispedro*high frequency image23:48
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dddis there a way to create a top level x window with an absolute position?23:49
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