IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-11-07

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dmj7261zaheerm: What do you think about pitivi as a candidate for maemo?00:19
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Stskeepsjavispedro: feel free to send ameet a mail asking about status, the more people asking the more likely we get a good answer i guess00:23
Stskeepsjudging from my own large inbox queues00:23
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javispedrothink so?00:25
javispedrook, will do once....00:25
Stskeepsthe longer a mail goes unanswered the more likely it is it's lost00:25
Stskeeps <- this is why hw design by commitee doesn't work.00:29
javispedroah, slashdot was getting that story but the site is slashdotted so I couldn't see an actual picture of the abomination00:29
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javispedroI wonder if that allows one to use Blender more comfortably.00:30
RST38hGentlemen, has pokerth been optified?00:30
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RST38hSts: The mouse does not look too bad00:31
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, PokerTH has, boost has not.00:35
GeneralAntillesBoost outweighs PokerTH, unfortunately.00:35
javispedrowhy I'm sure boost is nokia?00:35
GeneralAntilleslizardo is working on it, apparently.00:35
javispedroah, good :)00:36
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RST38hGeneral: Oh.00:40
RST38hBoost is that monstrous C++ library?00:40
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pupnikjust watched 'The Scent of Green Papaya'.. if you are into existential shit, it is good00:52
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wazdStskeeps: razer already did it so wth :D01:10
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pupnikacidjazz: check out
wazdRed Alert 3 is really epic01:12
pupnikright now01:13
wazd"So much money! So much borsch we can buy!"01:13
acidjazzno sound01:13
wazdjeez, I was like under the table :D01:13
pupnikmight be your thing man01:13
pupniki got some groove goin on here lemme tell you01:14
pupnikdancing ghosts01:14
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* GeneralAntilles throws a rock at lbt.01:36
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* lbt has ADSL up/down issues.... just seeing if it's alive...01:37
lbt(35 second ping!)01:37
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lbtand for VDVsx too
GeneralAntilleslbt, yeah, I feel so vindicated. ;)01:38
lcuklbt, could be worse01:38
VDVsxlbt, I saw it on planet openmoko :)01:38
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lbtit's been a busy day... 5 min catchup b4 bed01:39
lbtbut too good not to post (even if it's old news)   :D01:39
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to mirror it to Planet Maemo. ;)01:40
GeneralAntillesYou'll get some big karma for that. ;)01:40
VDVsxthe only surprise there, was udev, the rest I already knew01:40
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lbtGeneralAntilles: I was doing just that :)01:41
VDVsxand the thing about the harcoded values...scary :P01:41
GeneralAntilleslbt, if it passes spellcheck I may even just heart it for you. *g*01:41
VDVsxseems that moto droid is selling well in the US01:42
VDVsxaccording to eldar :P01:42
javispedro"Indeed, Apple’s engineers are likely to pay close attention to the N900."01:43
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GeneralAntillesThe dummy unit I tried at Best Buy felt awful.01:43
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VDVsxlcuk, congrats ;)01:44
javispedroohmy ohmy ohmy!01:45
javispedrooziexplorer coming to maemo!01:45
lcukthanks VDVsx :)01:45
VDVsxjavispedro, no01:46
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VDVsxhe gonna be daddy again :P01:46
javispedroVDVsx: oh, didn't hear that part.01:46
* VDVsx is a liar01:46
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, Talk nonsense I'm missing, I assume?01:46
VDVsxlcuk, ^01:46
javispedroGeneralAntilles: mostly.01:46
javispedroGeneralAntilles: I wouldn't call nonsense to a newb come in announce he just bought a n810 and talk about porting his ozi-like application01:47
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javispedroat least it's not the usual WHY THERE ARE STILL NO 3D DRIVERS01:47
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, it feels good not to know.01:48
* GeneralAntilles plays DS in the back seat with Jaffa.01:48
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greenflyheh, n900 release being pushed back a few weeks is nothing... I'm an openpandora pre-orderer :)01:48
VDVsxjavispedro, what's that ozi thing ?01:48
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javispedroVDVsx: a mapping app.01:49
VDVsxjavispedro, link ?01:49
greenflyVDVsx: I was able to find it with a google search for the app's name01:49
javispedrolcuk: (finally realizing what's going on after reading your twitter) congrats!01:49
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VDVsxjavispedro, do you twitt ?01:50
lcukta :), and yeah gen01:50
javispedroVDVsx: nope01:50
GeneralAntilleslcuk, is the world a brighter place now? ;)01:50
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lcukindeed gan :)01:51
lcukplus, it might get a bit quieter around here ;)01:51
javispedrohey, Collabora has an office here iirc01:52
lcukthey have one in cambridge too01:52
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* VDVsx will laugh so loud if lcuk have to moves to London area , muahahaah01:52
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lcukVDVsx, cambridge area :)01:53
pupnikgreenfly: i was a bit skeptical last year but i thought spring-summer was doable.  shows how little we know.01:53
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lbtg'night all :)01:53
greenflypupnik: heh, I think it shows how little /they/ know :)01:53
VDVsxqwerty12_N900, heard the news ?01:53
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lcuki thought about london, but that would be too close to qwerty12_N90001:53
pupnikgreenfly: they is we, moreso than with other projects.01:53
VDVsxlcuk, cambridge is south01:53
greenflypupnik: true01:54
* javispedro puts cambridge and manchester in google maps only to get a map of massachusetts. hmpf.01:54
lcukjavispedro, your typing sucks01:54
greenflyit's funny, for me the n900 is fulfilling the role the openpandora was going to fill01:54
VDVsxcambridge is like 30~40 km from center london, right ?01:54
lcukVDVsx, still north of qwerty01:54
VDVsxprobably less01:55
VDVsxoh, maps says around 100km01:56
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VDVsxjavispedro, btw, the ozi thing is a Windows app, lol01:57
javispedroVDVsx: I know, but this guy says to be reimplementing it.01:58
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VDVsxlike that part "Sorry, but other info is only in Russian yet. "01:59
javispedroyeah, that throw me off a bit.01:59
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lcukwhos got an n9702:02
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lcukor played on one02:03
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VDVsxlcuk, I played with one, don't have it anymore02:18
* VDVsx has the 5800 atm02:19
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wazdDroid is an another example that people will eat anything that's well advertised02:23
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pupnikor the power of being number one, wazd02:26
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wazdpupnik: not really sure where droid is number one, but anyway :)02:29
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kynkyi thought it was 2.002:30
pupnikgoogle is number one in search engine, so all their projects get instant recognition02:30
wazdmore than that, it's ad is dirty lies in some places02:30
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pupniknokia is also important and huge.  so the n900 is also serious02:30
pupnikbut the backwards compatibiliuty is maybe something to leave to the hackers02:31
lcukthunderbird is havign a shitfit02:31
wazdlike "iDont take photos at night". Droid can't even take photos at the daytime02:31
pupnikthe consumers want new shit02:31
kynkyconsumers always want02:32
pupniklcuk: have you tried 'dillo' browser?  how bout something simple like that integrated into clutter02:32
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lcuknot looked02:32
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GeneralAntillesFun, MAFW dbus wrapper has been eating 70+% CPU for the past 6 hours.02:41
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lcukGeneralAntilles, cool!02:45
lcukhow do you know how long02:45
GeneralAntilleslcuk, because it's been warm since then and I hadn't bothered to check why until it threw a low battery warning.02:46
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GeneralAntillesIt actually may have been longer02:49
GeneralAntilles'cause I think Media Player crashed when I went to bed last night.02:49
lcuki think you were very generous here02:53
lcukbug #5818 "Logging and and rating a package should take all of 30 seconds."02:53
povbotBug We need servers02:53
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, Bugzilla always makes me typo like crazy for some reason.02:54
lcukits good to know its happenin tho :)02:55
javispedroGeneralAntilles: god to know it can go on for 6 hours at 70% CPU02:58
javispedros/god/good (I seriously suck at typing)02:58
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wazdI've made it for Moscow n900 meeting!03:20
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wazd24.11.09. RST38h. gogogo :)03:21
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pupniknice wazd03:23
wazdthat's the date I'll see n900 live for the first time :S03:23
pupniki want to drive to moscow03:26
pupnikfollow the trail of my grandfather03:26
ShadowJKgood luckk getting a visa in time? :)03:26
Proteousdid he leave some breadcrumbs03:26
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GeneralAntillesPoor, poor wazd.03:28
wazdyeah, poor me :D03:28
pupnikwazd will kick ass in life03:30
pupnikwatch out for him03:30
GeneralAntillesIn the Army!03:37
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dmj7261Heh, apparently Dell told my parents that they canceled all those n900 preorders to protect Nokia's reputation by not shipping the n900 because it has lots of hardware problems.03:57
ShadowJKwhy is Dell involved03:58
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GeneralAntillesIs that the one that sold for < $500?04:01
GeneralAntillesI've encountered a few software problems, but no hardware problems.04:01
ShadowJKreplace hardware with software, look at n97, and it might make sense04:02
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, not sure why they would cancel now, though.04:11
GeneralAntillesSince we should be almost through with the delay.04:11
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* luke-jr wonders the legality of cancelling preorders against the consent of the purchaser.04:14
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, perfectly legal.04:14
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GeneralAntillesPerorders are very nebulous things.04:14
GeneralAntillesThey can change prices on you, too.04:14
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GeneralAntillesIt all depends on the agreement the retailer sets out for their preorders04:17
GeneralAntillesMost of them give themselves lots of wiggle room.04:17
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Macern900 out yet? :)04:48
Macersomeone seriously needs to remove words like "new" for videos that are over a week old04:49
Maceri'm watching the wired video on the n900 and the first 20 seconds is him telling everybody how much symbian sucks04:52
Termanabecause it does04:53
Maceryeah but04:54
Maceri just thought it was odd that nokia was linking toa  video that explains how much its own OS sucks04:54
Macerso will skype be a real skype on it?04:54
Macerlike where it actually uses the data pkts and not some lame ass call forwarding crap like most phones?04:55
Termanawhat? how else do you expect to use skype except over a data connection?04:57
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pupnikget Goldheart Assembly - Hope Hung High05:06
pupnikjust get it05:07
* b-man17 just got Ubuntu Karmic up and running :)05:12
b-man17pretty nice system :)05:12
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digitalstimulusfigured i'd check and see if there was an irc channel :)  on n81005:53
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digitalstimuluskind of excited, i haven't been on irc in years.  recently installed xchat05:56
digitalstimulusanyone know how to tab complete?06:01
digitalstimuluson n81006:01
Termanapupnik that just makes the channel list disappear06:05
digitalstimulusdetaches window in xchat06:05
Macerbones is pretty funny this week06:05
digitalstimulusspecifically, i'm trying to nick complete06:06
pupnikin xterm ctl-i is tab06:06
pupnikyou can remap any key to tab06:06
pupnikwe could make a package to do it06:07
pupnikbut everybody has diff preferences06:07
digitalstimulushmm, i see xchat has auto nick complete in settings.  have to see if i can get that working06:08
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pupnikwant me to google it?06:09
pupnikthere's a blog with instructions to add tab to your keyboard06:09
digitalstimulusi never use the dpad, that button would make a good tab06:10
pupniki forget what i used06:12
pupnikfn+space i think06:12
digitalstimulushmm, i don't think xchat's auto nick complete works...06:13
digitalstimulusperhaps i'll learn some about developing in maemo...i need a simple motion activated camera alarm :)06:22
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pupnikyes digitalstimulus many many things you can do06:23
pupnikwide open field in many areas06:23
digitalstimulusi haven't coded in so long...06:23
pupniksame here - nokia 770 changed that06:24
pupnikwas fun again06:24
Macerlet me check out warehouse 1306:24
digitalstimulusmy goal is to keep my cats off the kitchen counters :).  i saw a youtube vid where someone hacked together a blender attached to a controlled power outlet/laptop, controlled by a camera06:25
pupnikblender + cats is a bit offtopic06:26
digitalstimulusi'm not looking to get that elaborate, but basically i want to make somethning similar for n81006:26
digitalstimulussense motion with camera, play sound06:27
pupnikon the other hand, "catblender" has a certain ring to it06:27
pupnikgreat idea - cpu will be taxed tho06:28
pupnikand eat battery06:28
digitalstimulusi can leave it plugged in, and it doesn't need to be realtime06:28
pupnikto scare cat away woth sound?06:29
digitalstimulusi could do a 5 second delay and compare pixels during the delay06:29
pupnikdo it06:29
Termanaa $300+ cat scarer. ingenious.06:30
pupnikseen caöera output?06:30
pupniknoise will get you06:30
digitalstimuluswell, i use this thing all the time06:30
digitalstimulusmy favorite so far is carman.  just bought a bluetooth obd reader for our car06:31
digitalstimulusdoes gps tracking along with obd readings during trips06:32
pupnikderf is image processing guru here06:32
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pupnikanc cats move over counter faster than 5 seconds06:33
digitalstimulusi've done some gdi/image magick stuff...uhh long ago.  long enough to have to relearn how to do such things06:33
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digitalstimuluswell, you get the idea06:33
pupnikthere is code for you06:34
pupnikif i can remember name06:34
digitalstimulusmy cats know they aren't supposed to be up there :)  they jump up when we're not around and creep slowly06:34
pupniki am picturing you confronting theÃm with the evidence06:35
digitalstimulushaha, no.  but what works best isn't us chasing them down, they just learn that we are the 'bad guy'06:36
pupnikthe program im thinking of is open-source for home security monitoring06:36
pupnikhas motion detection06:36
digitalstimulusand do it while we aren't around06:36
digitalstimulusso having 'the counter itself' chase them away will train them to 'fear' tthe counter instead of us.  :)06:38
Termanafear the almighty COUNTER06:39
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digitalstimulusi may have come across it beforre.  i looked into some security software before06:40
digitalstimulusyes, the objective is to get the cats to think the counter chases them away and not us.  the counter is always therre, we aren't always around :)06:42
digitalstimulusalthough outside of this context, i don't know how useful a motion camera alarm would be for others on a maemo platform06:44
Termanawhy not just buy one of those cheap lazer trip alarms or a noise based one?06:47
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digitalstimuluseh, i like a geeky challenge06:47
m77771111sold my n810 for $240 (-;06:48
digitalstimulusplus, i'm not really into buying cheap throwaway single application stuff :)06:49
GeneralAntillesm77771111, what're you getting now?06:49
digitalstimuluswhich is why i have this hehe06:49
digitalstimulusswiss army knife of gadgets!06:49
m77771111GeneralAntilles i was using n810 for "skype in kitchen" only, but not too frequently to hold n810 ... don't know)06:49
pupnikit is not a trivial app06:49
m77771111why n810 live several days with activated wifi? Why ipaq 214 drains battery with wi-fi faster? :)06:50
pupnikn810 is a classic.  i dont know if the design will be Ãmatched soon06:50
GeneralAntillesN900 kicks its ass.06:50
GeneralAntillesWell, fit'n'finish wise, anyway.06:51
GeneralAntillesI guess you could make arguments for either design.06:51
digitalstimulusn900...makes me want to go t-mobile06:51
pupnikboth are great06:51
pupnikbut now i am lusting after a spare n81006:51
pupnikcause this elite metal case isnt coming back soon06:52
pupnikand the speakers...06:52
digitalstimulusn900 is plastic?06:52
GeneralAntillesA bit of metal.06:52
pupnikyes.  good plastic06:52
penguinbaitgood plastic?06:52
m77771111i think n810 have very slow cpu... Is iPhone have faster cpu? Or apple programmers just do very hard optimizing work?06:53
pupnikgermans are plastic snobs06:53
pupnikgood plastic06:53
penguinbaitI have not seen one myself so I cannot comment06:53
digitalstimulusn810 has higher resolution06:53
penguinbaitwhat is a plastic snob?  German plastic better than Japan plastic?06:54
penguinbaitsame resolution06:54
penguinbaitjust a smaller screen06:54
pupnikyes, for decades06:54
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pupniknow not so much06:54
digitalstimulushmm, i was sure n810 had higher when i bouht mine.  although it's been a while06:55
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pupniklook at fisher technik plastik for e.g06:55
digitalstimuluscompared to 1st gen iphone06:56
pupniksimilar cpu06:56
GeneralAntillesm77771111, screen resolution is a BIG factor in performance.06:56
digitalstimulusiphone is nowhere near as flexible06:57
GeneralAntillesiPhone is accelerated, too.06:57
m77771111GeneralAntilles yes...06:57
pupnikmain difference in speed scrolling stuff is the high resolution of N8x9, as others have indicated06:57
GeneralAntillesm77771111, iPhone has significantly less than half the pixels to push around.06:57
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digitalstimulusiphone's browser also doesn't do flash, they cheat a bit and seem to 'flatten' web pages as images for smooth scroll effects06:58
penguinbaitmore like 1/4 right?06:58
m77771111GeneralAntilles sorry, not familiar with english ) "the pixels to push around." - - ?06:58
GeneralAntillesm77771111, the iPhone has a much lower resolution, so it has to spend a lot less of its resources on driving the display.06:59
GeneralAntillesWhich means it seems like a higher performance device.06:59
m77771111GeneralAntilles ok. What kind of CPU must be installed in n810 to drive its resolution better ?:)07:00
penguinbait480-by-320-pixel resolution , I thought it was 360x24007:00
penguinbaitnot sure where I got that from07:00
digitalstimulusapple is all about presentation, they would scale back and limit stuff if it meant it runs smoother or is easier to use07:01
m77771111i think, maybe it is worth to get HP 4200 (wacom touchscreen) for $500 (-;07:01
samadi am implementing camera for N900 but error messege  gstbasesrc.c(2551): gst_base_src_start (): /GstPipeline:test-camera/GstV4l2CamSrc:camera_src:07:01
samadCheck your filtered caps, if any07:01
GeneralAntillesm77771111, OMAP3.07:01
GeneralAntillesSo, N900. ;)07:01
digitalstimulusi think nokia just decided to push the technology to the limit07:01
samadAny help ?07:02
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m77771111GeneralAntilles ok... Is nokia n900 can play youtube without lags ?:)07:02
GeneralAntillesdigitalstimulus, I'll be interested to see how the Maemo 5 UI does on OMAP2 with PowerVR drivers.07:02
GeneralAntillesm77771111, yes.07:02
m77771111GeneralAntilles he-he.. )07:02
GeneralAntillesm77771111, N8x0 can, too, actually.07:02
digitalstimulusis that n900?07:02
m77771111GeneralAntilles i didn't noticed that my n810 can play youtube fast enough )07:03
GeneralAntillesm77771111, but the Flash player in the browser is really inefficient.07:03
m77771111GeneralAntilles a, you mean that the interface (plugin -> browser canwas) is eats many cpu? :)07:03
GeneralAntillesYes, the Flash plugin sucks07:04
digitalstimuluson n810, i use greasemonkey addon with a force low quality flash script07:04
m77771111GeneralAntilles so it is need to use some external "youtube client" ?)07:04
GeneralAntillesand the browser is based on a really old Gecko release.07:04
digitalstimulusit helps quite a bit07:04
GeneralAntillesm77771111, yes, if you install MyTube or something it runs much faster.07:04
m77771111GeneralAntilles ok )07:04
digitalstimulusflashblock addon also helps.  show only the flash you want to see on a web page07:05
digitalstimulusn900 is accelerated?07:07
digitalstimulusdamn, i suppose when my contract is up i'll switch to t-mobile :)07:08
digitalstimulusi've been drooling over that thing since i heard about it07:09
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digitalstimulusanyone tried mer?07:10
GeneralAntillesdigitalstimulus, what carrier are you on?07:10
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digitalstimulusex-alltel, now verizon.  i'm ditching them after contract07:11
Termanamer is getting the fremantle interface on the next version (v0.17)07:11
GeneralAntillesAh, too bad.07:11
Termanaand the GLES  drivers as well hopefully07:11
digitalstimulusyea.  i use my phone for bluetooth DUN more than calls07:12
digitalstimulussleepy time07:14
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luke-jrdigitalstimulus: N810 is accelerated soon too07:35
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Termanaif they ever give us the drivers07:39
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luke-jrI wonder if the library is going to be Maemo/Mer-specific :/07:41
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Termanathats not as bad as you make it sound07:48
luke-jrTermana: hm?07:49
Flandryis it a bug that the extended description in app manager is so narrow, or a feature?07:49
Termanahaving the drivers mer/maemo only isn't all that bad07:50
luke-jrTermana: yes it is07:51
luke-jrI don't use either.07:56
Termanawhat do you use?07:56
Termanaon nokia n810?07:57
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, er, why would they be?07:58
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: they're libs...?07:59
luke-jrbinary libs are generally rather OS-specific07:59
Termanaluke-jr - you use gentoo on the nokia n810?08:00
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luke-jrTermana: yes08:01
Termanaluke-jr - how much of the hardware works though?08:02
luke-jrTermana: everything except the GPS, because the GPS blobs are buggy08:03
Termanaluke-jr - is it a community project or just something you decided to do yourself?08:06
luke-jrTermana: our community is 2 persons :p08:09
Termanaso you and someone else work on it?08:10
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luke-jrthere's official Gentoo support for generic ARM, so we don't have *too* much work :p08:13
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RST38hqwerty: I have found HildonButton and HildonCheckButton! =)08:43
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samadi can't run the example_camera of maemo site for n900 the error is gstbasesrc.c(2551): gst_base_src_start (): /GstPipeline:test-camera/GstV4l2CamSrc:camera_src:08:43
samadCheck your filtered caps, if any08:43
samadnay help plz08:43
johnxm00f RST38h08:43
RST38hheya johnx08:44
qwerty12RST38h: Hehe. Pimpin' up your emulators' menus? :p08:44
* RST38h figures out that samad and sarower is the same guy08:44
RST38hqwerty: you bet!08:44
samadme not sarower but samad08:45
RST38hwouldn't be able to tell...08:46
RST38hqwerty: One thing that is missing is the ability to create HildonCheckButtons with the secondary text though. Should tell konttori, probably...08:46
qwerty12RST38h: Ah, that was discussed on -developers by the Conboy guy. Resolution was: Not gonna happen. But the Conboy guy did make his own HildonCheckButton knockoff with the ability to have two labels...08:47
RST38hqwerty: Yea, just found the thread. Stupid.08:48
RST38hqwerty: Looks like Nokia UI guys have somewhat limited field of view...08:48
qwerty12I guess switching to Qt in the next release does nothing to motivate their GTK developers :)08:49
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RST38hqwerty: You do understand that we will have exactly the same thing with Qt>08:49
RST38hSeems to have nothing to do with programmers too: more like the UI/UX guys refusing to consider use scenarios outside their initial (limited) set08:50
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RST38hFor example, with checkbuttons, the guy clearly limits their usage to dialogs08:50
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pwnguinyou know, now that i see marat's here, a question comes to mind; just how much of an emulator do you need to write to emulate the gba on cortex a8?08:54
RST38ha lot.08:54
RST38hwell, not write, port the existing one08:55
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johnxalright. I'm finally sold on twitter:
* RST38h figured out that the only use for twitter is being able to say "Blogger, shut your twitter"09:06
johnxnah. it's for big_ben_clock to post "BONG BONG BONG" at 3 o'clock09:07
johnxalso: did t.m.o get horrifically slow for anyone else just now?09:09
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gnuton'morning! ;D09:54
RST38hYou should never confuse your batteries. Here's an easy way to keep them apart in your head: Lithium Ion batteries explode, Nickel Cadmium destroys the environment, and Lead Acid batteries are more corrosive than the Alien Queen's blood (plus, they contain lead). You can eat Lithium Ferro Phosphate batteries.09:55
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gnutonRST38h: ;D09:56
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lcukjohnx, make sure you RT it ;)10:12
qwerty12lcuk: Oh, BTW, congratulations10:12
lcukta and good mornin10:13
johnxlcuk, RT it?10:13
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lcukRT: @big_ben_clock BONG BONG BONG10:13
qwerty12BONG... gets urge to smoke10:14
lcukwhy doesnt that surprise me10:22
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lcukjohnx, have you ever been unfortunate enough to do google search for your name?10:25
lcukif not, dont10:26
lcukif so, how do you cleanse your eyes?10:26
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qwerty12lcuk: Gah! I just found out about the pornstar "John X", too10:28
lcukqwerty what i find more scary is you know more than I - did you click and readup on him? lol10:29
qwerty12I clicked the Wikipedia link, yes10:29
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johnxjeez. even *I've* never found that one10:38
* qwerty12 makes a mental note not to click on any links given by johnx that end in jpg/png etc.10:39's gonna be tough to end up with more google juice than "Pope John X" but I think I should make that my goal10:39
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RST38hHmm...some links in GTK+ reference are broken again10:43
RST38hjohnx: you have gained some weight, I see...10:44
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lcuki thought bounce evolution was a prewritten game not just a tech demo10:48
Stskeepssortof a tech demo10:48
Stskeepsit could be expanded though10:48
lcukjust noticed the description10:48
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lcukits been avail on other platforms tho hasnt it10:48
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RST38h5800s come with it, although it is a simplified version there10:49
* lcuk puts almost ti on10:49
lcukand continues waiting for thunderbird to download his gmail10:50
lcuk600 emails at a time10:50
lcukits upto 2007 so far *rolleyes*10:50
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qwerty12lcuk: It could be worse: You could be using Modest to do this...10:51
lcuktru, tru10:52
* Stskeeps wonders if claws was ported yet10:52
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lcukgmail is good at hiding how much crap there is10:52
lcuki signed up in 2004!10:52
RST38hRemove All Items10:53
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RST38h(and forget)10:54
lcuknahhh rst10:54
lcuki still use some mails10:54
lcukbah @ slowness tho, ill have to leave it goin10:56
lcukoff to barcamp :) bbiab10:56
RST38hhave fun =)10:56
qwerty12Fun? Manchester? /me sniggers10:57
qwerty12Take care, lcuk10:57
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* Stskeeps notes that the laptop market is way too murky.11:03
RST38hSts: You just need to know what you want11:09
RST38hIf you just need a generic 4kg brick that will sit with display off and compile stuff for you, go to some performance comparison page, buy the fastest one and forget11:09
RST38hIf you want the cheapest 4kg brick, go with LG, Samsung, or ASUS.11:10
RST38hIf you want a laptop you can carry, the choice is real small there, between Toshiba Portege, goddamn Lenovo X-series, Fujitsu, and Apple11:11
johnxthese days hp and dell do ok actually11:11
johnxthere quality is at least as good as the plastic macbook11:12
infobotjohnx meant: their quality is at least as good as the plastic macbook11:12
RST38hjohnx: depends on the model line11:12
RST38hXPS looks pretty decent11:12
johnxthat and one of their "for business" models seemed ok11:13
RST38hBut these all go into brick category11:13
johnxreally? hang on a sec...11:13
johnxthought there was a 12" or 13" ...11:13
RST38hThey are all heavy11:13
johnxthe macbook isn't light for sure11:14
RST38hTry finding one in <1.5kg range11:14
johnxunless you're talking about the air or something (ahahaha)11:14
RST38hYes I am talking about the air11:14
johnxeh...that's a lot of money for low-end specs11:15
johnxnot sure about the survivability or even reliability either11:15
johnxthe 13.3" macbook pro on the other hand is a pretty nice thing at $1200. not "ultraportable" though11:15
dmj7261How usable is mypaint on n900?11:17
LupuNow that it was brought up, I can't avoid putting in a good word for the Thinkpad X301.11:17
RST38hjohnx: I can't say much about the Air, but Porteges do pretty well in spite of their screens literally bending11:18
dmj7261I just tried it out on my desktop and it's wonderful.11:18
johnxRST38h, the first couple revisions of the air were hilariously slow and had horrible reliability11:18
johnxI think they got better, but still11:19
dmj7261air only has 1.5 usb ports :/11:19
dmj7261half that of the asus eee pc11:19
RST38hjohnx: AFAIK same goes for Dell Adamo11:19
johnxRST38h, for sure11:19
johnxbut how about a vostro or latitude11:19
RST38hjohnx: In fact, Portege is also slow due to cooling problems11:19
johnxI'd be a little wary of buying one without some hands on time though11:20
RST38hjohnx: I can speed it up by a factor of 3 just by forcing the fan into always-on-at-full-power mode11:20
Lupudmj7261: What do you mean by 1.5?11:20
dmj7261one full usb port and one mini usb thing11:20
RST38hjohnx: Vostro I have not seen, Latitude always sucked, probably still does11:20
dmj7261which I don't really count as a full usb port11:20
RST38hXPS I played with, felt fine, but too heavy for me11:20
johnxRST38h, well the latitudes *look* better at least11:21
johnxnever saw one in person though11:21
dmj7261since all your cables will be wrong for it.11:21
RST38hjohnx: The old ones were heavy bricks filled with the cheapest available components11:21
RST38hjohnx: The only advantage was that all the hardware was absolutely average, i.e. no crapware drivers required11:21
dmj7261I had a terrible experience this evening with an HP tablet.11:22
johnxwell, the 13" latitude hits 1.5kg11:22
* RST38h goes to check11:22
dmj7261The tablet screen didn't work properly out of the box on ubuntu.11:22
dmj7261very different experience to the toshiba tablets11:22
johnxdmj7261, was it one of their "entertainment" tablets or one of the more business oriented line?11:22
dmj7261didn't look businessy11:23
dmj7261tx2 something11:23
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johnxyeah. saw it in stores11:23
johnxdidn't feel really substantial11:23
dmj7261It was a classmate's computer.  He wanted ubuntu on it.11:23
dmj7261yeah, felt cheaply made, but that could just be the impression I get from glossy plastic.11:24
RST38hjohnx: Looks like brick to me though:
dmj7261rather slippery.11:24
johnxRST38h, well it certainly looks bricklike, but it's no thicker than a 13" macbook (pretty much my limit for what I'm willing to carry around)11:25
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RST38h3.5lbs sounds good though11:26
johnxhuh. wonder why I never heard of the 12" vostro11:26
RST38h2.4lbs here though =)11:27
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RST38h"Only Dell offers pre-installed videoconferencing software, Dell Video Chat, which along with the purchase of optional integrated webcam and microphone gives customers a complete videoconferencing solution."11:28
* RST38h facepalms11:28
dmj7261my lappy is 2.2 lbs11:28
RST38hI.e. both sides have to have Dells? =)11:28
RST38hdmj: what is it?11:28
dmj7261um...the dell video thing sounds stupid11:29
dmj7261eee pc 90011:29
RST38hThat is no lappy11:29
johnxbricklike x200s @ 2.53lb11:29
dmj7261can handle 100 ff tabs and several hundred thousand words in OO.o with pidgin too.11:29
RST38hIt's a netbook. And you will find it out the hard ware as long as you try compiling something serious on it11:29
dmj7261like gnome-shell11:30
RST38hjohnx: Yea, Lenovo X-series get pretty good reviews11:30
dmj7261it's certainly not my workhorse.11:30
RST38hjohnx: But I am not getting a Lenovo, fuck them into bankrupcy as soon as possible11:30
suihkulokkiit would be interesting to see one of the dell latitudes with the omap3 daughtercard :)11:30
johnxRST38h, don't hold back. tell us how you really feel. :)11:30
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doc|homeRST38h: they're 30% the chinese govt. They're not going bankrupt any time soon.11:31
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RST38hjohnx: DOn't wanna sound repetitious :)11:31
johnxsuihkulokki, wow! that totally slipped under my radar11:31
johnxvery neat11:32
RST38hdoc: All I really need is Intel terminating supply contract with them11:32
RST38hdoc: So that we no longer have to use this garbage at work11:32
johnxRST38h, ah, right. I misread that as "terminating shipment of intel CPUs to them"11:32
johnxbut that'd solve your problem too11:32
RST38hsuihkulokki: They actually spent money to have an OMAP3 there?!?11:32
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suihkulokkiRST38h: seems so, never seen that on real life though :)11:34
RST38hjohnx: the other contract :()11:34
johnxholy crap! I want in an e4200 or e4300 now w/ an omap311:35
johnxrunning both at the same time would be pretty freaking great for ARM devel11:35
RST38hjohnx: it is probably locked out11:36
suihkulokkijohnx: read more carefully - e4200/e4300 have "latitude on" as "software", as in basicly a mini linux distro you can boot to instead of windows11:36
RST38hWon't be able to develop for it11:36
suihkulokkilatitude z has the omap11:36
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johnxsuihkulokki, but the bottom says they'll be shipping a "customer upgrade kit"11:36
RST38hheya wazd11:37
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suihkulokkithey promise a omap3 upgrade for e4200/e4300, but it doesn't seem to be available yet11:37
RST38hLatitude Z actually looks mighty cool:
johnxthat's fine. I can wait :)11:37
wazdRST38h: moo :)11:37
wazdRST38h: gogogo :)11:38
wazdhello all11:38
RST38hwazd: Registering?11:38
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wazdRST38h: yep11:39
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doc|homeRST38h: terminating supply? Wow, that's big. Also, good for chinese clone chip makers.11:39
RST38hLatitude Z is 4.5lbs (1.98kg) with 16" display11:39
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RST38hdoc: No, not that supply11:40
johnxdoc|home, he means the other way :) he wants intel to stop buying lenovo laptops11:40
doc|homejohnx: aww, shame11:40
RST38hdoc: I just don't want Intel to continue buying this crap11:40
bilboedbuy a Lenovo X series :)11:42
bilboed(that was for whoever was looking for a laptop)11:43
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doc|homeso you too can fund the chinese government11:43
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bilboedyou're pathetic :)11:44
doc|homeyou have a low bar11:44
bilboedI guess you've never used a ThinkPad11:44
bilboedyou'd say otherwise11:44
doc|homewe have one in work11:44
doc|homehate it11:44
bilboedthey go buy an Acer11:45
doc|homeI've never seen the appeal11:45
bilboedI'm sure that's in your range of flaky laptops :)11:45
doc|homewe have two of those, they suck too11:45
doc|homekeep trying11:45
bilboedor a brick, like a Dell11:45
johnxoooh. can get the latitude on module as "spare part NY096" :D11:45
bilboedor a pimp laptop with unreliable hardware like an Apple11:45
doc|homebilboed: never touching a dell again, continue?11:45
dmj7261It would be nice if buying laptops worked like buying desktops11:45
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doc|homedmj7261: it really would11:46
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bilboedor go back to the joys of the 90s and buy an olivetti :)11:46
doc|homeor rather, buying parts to make your own desktop11:46
dmj7261I've had a grand total of one new purchased desktop this decade.11:46
johnxmsi has a "barebones" laptop kit ...11:46
doc|homeI've built all of mine this decade11:46
bilboeddesktops are another matter11:47
johnxand as for the lenovos... it really depends on which one you get: just like dells11:47
dmj7261...which has subsequently been replaced by a parade of new parts.11:47
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doc|homejohnx: it's not very good and hard to source last I checked11:47
bilboedjohnx, I only mentionned the X series11:47
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dmj7261...reliable, quality, and inexpensive.11:47
johnxdmj7261, pick any 2?11:47
johnxbilboed, only one I'd consider as well11:47
dmj7261...laptops don't usually offer all of those, particularly not with performance.11:47
johnxbut the latitude on module thing has me absolutely fascinated11:47
Stskeepsprovided it's hackable11:48
johnxStskeeps, well yeah. but that's just a matter of an exploit against their little linux install :)11:48
dmj7261You can get all of those with a desktop these days.  I wish I could have the same experience with laptops, but hey, my desktop just sits on my desk all day and night.11:48
RST38hjohnx: I would wait until someone hacks it and tells the world about it11:49
johnx$200 for the board. the biggest thing I wonder is whether it can be on while the x86 chip is running11:49
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johnxRST38h, yeah...but man... it's really tempting11:49
RST38hProbably can, it is not going to share any resources other than video/audio/input11:49
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johnxRST38h, yeah, but how do they handle *that*11:49
RST38hjohnx: You are risking to repeat Macer's experience with TouchBook11:49
johnxRST38h, did he end up unhappy?11:50
RST38hjohnx: Well, input they can feed through a serial port11:50
RST38hjohnx: Mighty unhappy, throw-it-at-the-wall unhappy11:50
johnxI read a review. apparently the hardware isn't all that sturdy11:50
johnxshame really, but I didn't expect much different11:50
RST38hjohnx: Video they probably route out through x86 chipset video capture11:50
Stskeepsjohnx: macer's selling his TB for 250 usd or the likes btw11:50
RST38hjohnx: Audio can be mixed trivially, by connecting wires together11:50
johnxlooking at the sharp netwalker pretty seriously11:51
Stskeepsscary, just saw "Fremantle" as text on my tv11:51
johnxRST38h, hmm? routing video that way would require the x86 to be on, yes?11:51
thuxcouple kids just convicted here for computer crimes and newspaper said one of them downloaded from p2p 11.000e worth of microsoft programming tools! what kind of tool programs are that expensive?11:51
johnxthux, hmm, 11 euros sounds about right11:52
RST38hjohnx: Only requires BIOS to initialize video chipset11:52
RST38hjohnx: That is relatively inexpensive, not like booting whole Win711:52
johnxRST38h, yeah. I'd do the hacking myself, but if there are hardware limitations it's a deal breaker...11:53
thuxms must have good tools for programming then11:53
RST38hnot good, expensive11:54
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RST38hbesides, I fully believe the prosectuion has pulled that number out of their collective ass11:54
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thuxare reverse compilers?11:54
thuxthey tools11:54
thuxtheir tools11:55
johnxugh. the e4200 is $2,000 + that "on" module for another $20011:55
Stskeepsjohnx: a beagleboard connected with USB and powered by usb might do the trick too :P11:55
johnxStskeeps, might as well do my other hardware hack project: a beagle in G4 imac (one of the "lamp" ones)11:56
johnxw/ battery power and wireless mouse/keyboard11:56
johnxit should just be a computer sitting there with no wires, making no sound :)11:56
johnxespecially since the beagle has LVDS for displays now (IIRC)11:57
RST38hjohnx: Actually, it is ~30% less11:57
johnxRST38h, hmm?11:57
RST38hjohnx: Because it is business-related expense :)11:57
johnxwhich part? the $2000 laptop or the $200 card? :P11:57
RST38hthe whole thing11:57
johnxah...interesting idea.11:58
johnxactually I can do better by getting a crappier version of windows too ...11:58
RST38has long as you use it for work, and getting at least one 1099 for your work, you can claim it as expense11:59
RST38hI am not sure if W2s allow you to do that, but check with accounting office11:59
johnxeh. the beagle in imac idea is sound better by the second though :/ with enough money left over for another 12" laptop that's not really any worse12:01
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RST38hYou have got an N900, should it satisfy the cravings? =)12:01
johnxRST38h, it's my phone. :P I want to hack something up12:02
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johnxI need something that can be non-working at any arbitrary point in time12:02
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RST38hHack your phone and become a phreaker! =)12:02
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RST38hLike....a second N900? :)12:02
johnxmeh. I just whistle into it for free long distance :)12:03
johnxnah. the rule is: I can never two of the same device12:03
RST38hgood rule12:03
* RST38h remembers that story about the wish granting machine that never granted the same wish twice12:03
johnxI wonder how that 'on' module connects12:05
JaffaMorning, all12:05
RST38hThey had to build 12 or so identical parts with it, so they went over all possible materials from aluminium to diamond and still couldn't make enough parts12:05
johnxpeople describe it as being 'under the memory chips'12:05
RST38hjohnx: that is physical location , has nothing to do with how it connects12:05
johnxRST38h, really? *rolls eyes*12:05
johnxwhat I want to find is someone with an e4x00 who can tell me what connector is available under the RAM slot12:06
RST38hjohnx: marginally more information12:11
RST38hjohnx: I would try finding service manuals instead12:11
johnxworking on it of course12:12
johnxinfo is very strangely sparse12:12
RST38his it released at all?12:12
johnxit's for sale and I still can't find a *picture* of the real thing12:12
johnxpeople are *using* it12:12
RST38hare there screenshots of the ARM OS at least?12:12
johnxand it's shipping as of two weeks ago I believe12:12
johnxand firefox is the browser12:12
thuxdoes windows support arm omap laptops?12:13
samadhow web cam can be shown in Emulator for N900 ?12:13
johnxthux, windows mobile/ce, sure12:13
thuxbut not this seven pc thing?12:13
johnxthux, definitely not12:14
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ccookeMorning, all12:15
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johnxyeah, not as good as Windows CeMeNT12:19
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johnxhmmm hmm hmm. seems the latitude on might be a mini pci card12:25
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johnxso I wonder if the mini pci slot in those machines is non-standard in some interesting way to allow for the latitude on to do its thing12:27
johnxheh. original launch date was supposed to be november ... 200812:28
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Macerapps that install toolbars in your browser should be banned12:30
Macerlike sun java with its yahoo toolbar12:30
johnxhey Macer. sorry to hear you were having trouble with the touchbook12:30
johnxwhat's not so good about it?12:30
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johnxsoftware or hardware?12:30
Macershould be the latest one ;)12:30
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johnxMacer, so you're selling it? and how do you feel about the physical construction now that you've had it for a while?12:33
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Maceri think the tablet is nicely designed12:37
Macerbut the whole tipping when connected to the keyboard thing12:37
Macerthat is just unsat12:37
johnxdoes it feel sturdy?12:38
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pH5good morning lardman12:49
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Dantonicanyone use xchat on their NIT?12:52
johnxon maemo4 and 5, n800,n810 and n90012:52
Dantonichey, do you ever get a crash that causes all applets to disappear?12:53
Dantonici'm on n80012:53
Dantonicnit sure if its xchat or not12:53
RST38hyes we do12:53
RST38hthat is hildon-desktop crash12:54
johnxah. I guess we do then. that's pretty bad.12:54
johnxhaven't run into it yet12:54
Dantonicfor me, all applets disappear, and my personal menu gets replaced with regular menu12:54
lardmanhi pH512:54
Dantonicah what causes that-12:54
RST38hOne of your applets does not work right.12:54
lardmananyone here got a 5800? What are they like?12:55
RST38hRemove all applets, then add them one by one slowly12:55
RST38hlardman; Sturdy littl ephone12:55
Dantonicwell it dosnt happen always12:55
RST38hlardman: Nothing special, absolutely no-shiny, but comfortable. Can be operated with one hand.12:55
lardmanRST38h: the wife is looking for a new phone, doesn't much like the N900! ;)12:55
RST38hlardman: 5800 does feel like a somewhat lobotomized n900, but the UI is comfortable12:56
lardmantouch-screen only though, does that work ok?12:56
Dantonicmust be gpesummary RST38h12:56
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RST38hlardman: same as on N90012:56
ShadowJK5800 is more like a lobotomized N800 isn't it12:56
RST38hNo kinetic scrolling but she is not used to it yet, is she?12:56
RST38hShadowJK: Naah, it is really more similar to maemo5 (or rather maemo5 new UI is made to mimic S60e5)12:56
ShadowJKwith added gsm/3g..12:56
ShadowJKI meant hardware12:57
RST38hThe CPU is some generic ARM1112:57
RST38hShadow: But you do not deal with hardware you deal with UI12:57
RST38hwhatever is underneath is of no concern to a regular punter12:57
lardmanthe wife has taken offense at being called a regular punter ;)12:58
RST38hlardman: Oh, btw, bt module has died in hours after ~3 months. I have not fixed it yet, have to go to a service center12:58
Dantonicdo u guys use gpesummary?12:58
infobotRST38h meant: lardman: Oh, btw, bt module has died in ours after ~3 months. I have not fixed it yet, have to go to a service center12:58
lardmanDantonic: no, not me12:58
lardmanRST38h: is that a generic fault?12:58
RST38hlardman: No idea, have not heard of it but google12:59
lardmanok, sounds alright then12:59
lardmando you have data with yours? Is it necessary?12:59
RST38hlardman: Also, our 5800s are made in Hungary, not sure if UK ones come from the same place12:59
RST38hlardan: We have no plans here, data is $.14/MB with Internet option enabled12:59
lbtis anyone working on hildonising xchat?13:00
RST38h$.20/MB or so with Internet option off13:00
RST38hlardman: So yea, web browsing, maps, icq13:00
lardmancool, same sort of stuff as N900 then13:00
RST38hthe screen is a bit more crumped, but there is a floating keyboard and handwriting recognition option13:00
DantonicRST38h, so it's definitely not advanced backlight nor advanced battery causing the hildon crash?  gotta be one of the applets?13:00
RST38hDantonic: I have no idea. Uninstall them all and add them one by one, slowly13:01
Dantonicalso thought it might be those13:01
lardmanRST38h: thanks for the info :)13:01
RST38hlardman: it survives drops to the pavement btw, although we have not yet figured out how many13:02
lardmanlol, good good13:02
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RST38hlardman: And you will have to delete about 6-8 Nokia supplied icons right away13:02
RST38hThat includes NGage, Download, and a few more promotions13:02
lardmanhave not used a sumbian device since my Psion 5 ;)13:03
RST38hMost of them are useless crap that wants to make you spend money. If you remove them before your wife gets to the device, she will not complain about them13:03
fralsthe 5800 is nice except for nokia hating sweden and not giving us the firmware upgrades :(13:03
RST38hfrals: Just flash it with US or european firmware and that is all13:04
RST38hfrals: you will lose specific swedish keyboard layout13:04
Dantonicman the android/google gps navigation loks nice.  I really like the voice recognition, very handy13:04
fralsdont think the gf would be to happy without the swedish keyboard ;(13:05
qwerty12_N900Flash it with Finnish firmware and end the rivalry13:06
fralscould probably flash it with a finnish and it would work thou13:06
* qwerty12_N900 hides13:06
ShadowJKThat's one nice thing I'm looking forward to with maemo, world-wide firmware image13:07
lardmanhmm, /me wonders if he should get the wife to get an Android phone just to see what it's all about... :)13:08
ShadowJKI mean, symbian is just silly. Try install Nokia's own english-whatever dictionary program, and you'll discover that you need to get a phone the whatever-country to be able to read the language in whatever-country13:08
ShadowJKphone from the*13:08
Veggenhow's the 900 to use as a phone?13:10
RST38hlardman: I would only go for Android if it is something like Moto Droid, with huge screen13:10
RST38hlardman: Or Leo (although Leo runs WinMo unfortunately)13:10
Veggensome people find it clunky. myself, I notice that my n810 is not with me ass often anymore, because another device besides my phone is often too much to drag with me.13:11
Maceruntil president kennedy was killed, it wasn't a federal crime to assassinate a president13:11
RST38hyep. there can be only one!13:11
RST38hMacer: So, killing LIncoln was ok?13:12
lardmanRST38h: hmm, I won't bother then13:12
* ShadowJK sometimes has phone, two backup powersources and N810 with him in pockets13:12
Macerwell. it was handled by the state13:12
Macernot the federal court ;)13:12
lardmanHTC Tattoo looks like the only one available on Vodafone13:12
johnxVeggen, works pretty great, but it doesn't hold onto a weak signal quite as well as my old SE TM50613:12
fralswow the n900 is pretty booked on forum nokia remote device access13:12
Macerso the local sheriff had jurisdiction13:12
Macera small amount of alcohol placed on a scorpion will make it go crazy and sting itself to death13:13
RST38hprooflink? =)13:13
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MacerRST38h: sorry. i am using a useless facts app on my G1 haha13:14
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DantonicI've been getting a unable to create virtual memory error ever since i did a 'sudo fsck -y /dev/mmcblk0p2'13:18
Dantonicdid i mess something up?13:18
Dantoniccant use virtual mem :(13:18
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I plan to make an iMac abomination :)13:20
* ShadowJK looks at the p2 and wonders13:20
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johnxguess it's a little late for him ...13:20
lardmanhmm, HTC Magic13:20
Dantonicany ideas?13:20
johnxDantonic, sorry, N810, N800, N900?13:20
johnxdoes it work with a different card?13:21
johnxalso, pastebin your dmesg right after you try to make the swap file13:21
ShadowJKWhat kind of setup do you have if you have a mmblk0p213:21
Dantonici guess my partitions melded too.  i was booting from sd.  1.5gig boot partition 500mb fat13:22
Dantonicnow its one 1.9 gb13:22
johnxalso, see if your swap file still exists and delete it13:22
johnx...ah. yeah. check your partition map13:22
johnxcat /proc/partitions13:22
Dantonic 254     0    1960448 mmcblk013:23
Dantonic 254     1     480000 mmcblk0p113:24
Dantonic 254     2    1480416 mmcblk0p213:24
johnxok, well that looks fine still13:24
johnxhow is /dev/mmcblk0p1 doing for space?13:24
Dantonicright now i'm booting from internal flash13:25
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Dantonicwell in homediskfree just shows 1 patition 1.9/1.913:26
johnxuse df -h13:26
lardmanwhat is WCDMA? Is that 3G or what's used in the US?13:26
johnxlardman, that's the the tech behind UMTS/HSPA13:27
johnxso yeah, it's 3G13:27
johnxhowever: WCDMA != CDMA13:27
lardmanah, ok13:27
Dantonic/dev/mmcblk0p1            1.9G    236.0k      1.9G   0% /media/mmc213:27
ShadowJKUMTS includes... everything..13:28
Dantonicthats not right13:28
Dantonicthats all it shows.13:28
Maceronly national geographic pays people to jump in the ocean and grav sea turtles13:28
Macerto stick cameras on them13:28
Dantonici can still boot from there.  idk what happened13:28
ShadowJKDantonic, do you have two memory cards in the device?13:28
Dantonicmmc2 and mmc113:28
johnxDantonic, get any data you care about backed up13:29
Dantonicya it is already13:29
Dantonicnothing to lose ;P13:29
johnxthe next thing is probably to fsck -y /dev/mmcblk0p113:30
RST38hMacer: Smithsonian too13:30
johnxactually...maybe easier to just remake it entirely13:30
Dantonicthats what caused this in the first place.13:30
lardmanstrange the HTC Magic has a longer standby time on WCDMA than on GSM13:30
johnxyou said you ran fsck -y /dev/mmcblk0p213:30
johnxand no, fsck almost never *creates* fs problems13:30
johnxit might reveal hardware problems though13:31
* RST38h is starting to get really annyoed with this Firefox for Mobile thing13:31
RST38hWho let these offtopicers include themselves into the Planet?13:31
Dantonichmm i think i tried both p1 and p2 but only worked on p113:31
lardmanRST38h: they will be thumbed down into oblivion13:32
johnxDantonic, might be easier to just mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p113:32
Dantonicbasically i've been having big stability issues, i thought fsck might fix something13:32
Dantonicreboots, freezes13:32
johnxDantonic, was the fs mounted when you tried to run fsck?13:32
RST38hlardman: I would rather see them removed from the aggregator, oblivion or not13:32
Dantonicjohnx, hmm probably lol didnt even think about umounting13:33
johnxgot to agree with RST38h on this one, since I consume via RSS13:33
Dantonicis that the issue?13:33
Dantonicit was mounted?  what does fsck do anyway?13:34
johnxDantonic, well, then you might as well (unmount and) run mkfs.vfat on your /dev/mmcblk0p113:34 remake the filesystem13:34
johnxDantonic, fsck shouldn't run if the fs is mounted unless you forced it too13:34
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RST38hoh shit, his desktop sometimes crashed just 30 minutes ago and lo and behold: he is already remaking his filesystem13:35
Dantonicok. what will  mkfs.vfat do?13:35
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* RST38h cackles evilly13:35
johnxbut it basically cleans up the fs and fixes problems. it's totally harmless ... unless the fs is mounted and something is writing to it13:35
johnxDantonic, mkfs.vfat reformats the partition13:35
Dantonicin fat?13:35
Dantonicand after i can clone with ext?13:36
johnxI assume your boot-from-sd is on /dev/mmcblk0p2?13:36
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Dantonicno.  now i only see p1 it's like it gobbled up the other partition13:37
johnxDantonic, but when you ran cat /proc/partitions it showed both13:37
Dantonicya but when i ran the other command for size it only showed p1 and taking the whole 2gb sd13:38
johnxDantonic, yes. that other command (df -h) only shows mounted filesystems13:38
Dantonici'm confused as to what is happening13:38
Dantonicah ok13:38
RST38hAnd we complain about Nokia closing things...13:38
johnxand I think the mmcblk0p1 partition is broken in such a way that it's confused about the size13:39
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Dantonici see13:39
johnxif your stuff is backed up, just repartition the whole card (or format from the file manager or a windows desktop) and do your dual boot setup again13:39
johnxafter that everything should be fine (unless there is something physically wrong with your card)13:39
Dantonic'mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1' would be it?13:40
Dantoniccan i format from here-13:40
Dantonicfrm flash?13:40
Dantonicformat the whole thing?13:41
johnxDantonic, you have two options: reformat just p1 or clear the whole card and start from scratch13:41
johnxI guess you might as well start my reformatting p113:41
johnxso type: umount /dev/mmcblk0p113:41
Dantonicand also how can i check if theres an issue with the card that might have been causing the instability?13:41
johnxDantonic, type: dmesg > /home/user/MyDocs/dmesg.txt13:42
johnxthen put the file on pastebin (or another pastebin-type site)13:42
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : , , , ,
johnxRST38h, pretty much what I've been saying for a year or so13:43
johnxand the n900 has the guts to run maemo as well as running davlikVM at the same time I believe13:43
RST38hjohnx: I was not aware it was that bad13:43
johnxRST38h, I was one of the first people getting the sdk running on the zaurus :)13:44
johnxsooo...close to 2 years actually13:44
* RST38h will argue that his z80 vm is way more useful than dalvik vm =)13:44
RST38hgames are way better for once ;]13:44
johnxRST38h, does it have google navigation? :P13:45
Dantonicwhats dmesg?13:45
* SpeedEvil ponders a z80 mapping app.13:45
johnxDantonic, it prints kernel messages13:45
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RST38hjohnx: no that it extra13:45
johnxI'm looking for anything that suggests your sd card is dying13:46
johnxI don't see anything13:46
johnxnormally you'd see I/O errors or something similar13:46
Dantonicah ok13:46
Dantonicso try mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1?13:46
johnxumount /dev/mmcblk0p1 && mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p113:46
johnxif you don't umount before this, it'll be the same situation all over again :P13:47
johnxtake the card out and put it back13:47
johnxthen run df -h13:47
Dantonicok gotta turn off brb13:48
johnxturn off?13:48
Dantonici'm on n80013:48
johnxyou're booted from NAND, right?13:48
Dantonici'm on the device.13:48
johnxso just take the card out and put it back ...13:48
Dantonicoh thats safe?13:49
johnxdo you reboot to swap cards all the time?13:49
Dantonici never swap cards13:49
johnxI mean, obviously it's no good if you're running from the card itself... :)13:50
Dantonicok it sees it13:50
Dantonicdetected it13:50
johnxgood sign :)13:50
johnxdf -h13:50
Dantonicmkfs.vfat 2.11 (12 Mar 2005)13:51
Dantonic/dev/mmcblk0p1          468.5M         0    468.5M   0% /media/mmc213:51
Dantonicsees fat13:51
Macerif a lobster loses an eye it will grow another one13:52
johnxthat matches your /proc/partitions13:52
johnxMacer, I want all those cool animal regrowth genes13:52
Dantonicok extending memory now13:52
johnxMacer, regrowing teeth, eyes, limbs. would be really nice13:52
johnxDantonic, rockin'13:52
* johnx makes hot cocoa, goes to bed13:53
Dantonicso insightful! thx johnx13:53
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Dantonicso where does it extend the virt mem to?13:53
Dantonicfrom p1?13:54
johnxa file on /dev/mmcblk0p113:54
johnxtype: ls -a /dev/mmc213:54
johnxI bet you'll figure out what file it is :)13:54
Dantonicls: /dev/mmc2: No such file or directory13:54
Dantonicis it /media/mmc2?13:56
Dantonic~ $ ls -a /media/mmc213:56
johnxyeah :)13:56
johnx<- tired13:56
Dantonic.      ..     .swap13:56
johnxsooo...which file do you think is your swap file? :)13:57
Dantonici hate that i cant post multiple lines in xchat!13:57
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johnxanyways. glad that's working for you13:57
johnxreally going to sleep now13:57
Dantonicidk it could be any of em!13:57
Dantonicok me too13:57
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Dantonic4 am13:57
Dantonicalways helping me...  much appreciated13:58
johnxno prob :)13:58
* VDVsx moos and says good morning Maemo :D13:58
Dantonicsorry bout all the questions it helps me understand13:58
Dantonicokk goodnight13:59
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RST38hHeya VDVsx14:09
RST38hAnyone knows why fmradio package is 6.6MB in size?14:10
VDVsxbunch of python stuff ?14:10
VDVsxat least it's optified, I remember checking ;)14:11
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`0660there are millions of lines of code in it? :P14:11
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RST38hBut why do you need so much python just to show the dial?14:12
* RST38h senses conspiracy )14:12
`0660custom graphics?14:12
`0660which are uncompressed14:12
VDVsxRST38h, where did you saw the size HAM ?14:13
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RST38hVDVsx: Yep14:13
VDVsxRST38h, the app has ~100kb14:15
VDVsxdepends on:n900-fmrx-enabler (>= 1.2), python2.5, python-gtk2, python-gobject, python-osso, python-hildon, python-dbus, python-gst0.1014:15
RST38hSo it pulled up the whole python?14:15
VDVsxprobably, ehehe14:15
* RST38h wonders why he did not have python before =)14:15
RST38hVDVsx: Tried N900 Canola BTW? Any good?14:16
VDVsxRST38h, nop14:16
VDVsxdidn't tried yet14:16
VDVsxit some issues, afaik14:16
VDVsx*it has some issues14:16
* VDVsx ponders if should visit tmo or not :P14:17
RST38hnope, nothing interesting there14:18
RST38hcheck this instead:
RST38hAlso, there is a funny Android presentation on the Planet, basically shows that Android is badly broken14:19
VDVsxRST38h, yet, I saw this slides on planet Openmoko a couple of days ago ;)14:20
RST38hah ok14:20
RST38hOpenMoko guys can use something to gloat at =)14:20
thuxdoes android run on n900 too?14:21
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RST38hnot yet14:22
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TermanaArrggg I've become so used to the touchscreen on my N810, I just tried to touch the (non-touchscreen) screen on my laptop :\14:24
Flandryi've done that14:24
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VDVsxTermana, will be worst with the N900, you will try to close dialogs/windows in your pc clicking in the empty space instead of the close/cancel button :P14:28
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TermanaVDVsx: lol, its good that I won't be able to get one. Though I assume it will work the same with Mer14:32
VDVsxTermana, last time I tried Mer, it had cancel buttons, but in the future probably ;)14:34
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Macerunder extreme stress some types of octopuses will eat their own arms14:46
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thuxyou mean arm cpus?14:47
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Macerbuttermilk does not contain any butter14:47
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thuxarm seems funny word14:48
thuxlike 'brothers in arms'14:49
Macerin england the speaker of ther house is not allowed to speak14:49
Macerwtf? :) those crazy english14:49
thuxnative americans said that english men had two tongues or split tongue14:50
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thuxalways many meanings in every word14:51
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SuurorcaI wonder if that was just a reaction to english generally being a very vague in meaning ;p14:52
Suurorcathen again, probably not14:53
wazdwait, 18 hours of mp3 playing? O_o14:53
thuxwonder is apache foundation native americans company :)14:53
wazdhave I missed something?14:54
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Stskeepson n900?14:54
Stskeepsshould be plausible14:54
wazdthat's damn long lasting :)14:55
wazdwhat about a2dp?14:55
wazdI get about 3-4 hours with my old battery14:56
Stskeepsi use headphones mostly, they are quite good :P14:56
Stskeepsa2dp isnt very optimized on n8x014:56
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thuxStskeeps: what about mer, does it run on n900?14:57
Suurorcai wonder if that's in offline mode only14:58
hrw|oedemthux: no use of running mer on n900 I think14:58
Stskeepsthux: sure14:58
Stskeepshrw|oedem: we aren't just a backport.. that most people would stick with maemo5 is a different thing14:59
thuxcool mer is ahead of android then14:59
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hrw|oedemStskeeps: I think that better would be to fix maemo5 then build maemo5 components for mer15:00
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Macerhaha. i just argued with someone who said that coffee is colder than a room when left sitting there15:00
Maceri told him that violates the laws of thermodynamics15:00
StskeepsMacer: this is what it's like discussing with luke-jr and similar personalities15:00
lbtMacer which is colder, coffee added to milk or milk added to coffee?15:01
lbtassuming all else is the same?15:01
Macerhaha.. they are the same temperature :)15:01
lbtcoffee added to milk... surface area exposure during the pour15:01
Macerthat would requier the temperature variables of both15:02
lbtnope, assuming all else the same...15:02
lbtnow ask if it's measurable.... probably not15:02
Macereventually the energy would be transfered and the system woudl be constant15:03
lbtnow bring up the jet plane and the travelator-runway15:04
Suurorcadid you bother taking into account the cup? =)15:04
lbt(assuming all else the same...)15:04
MacerSuurorca: the cup would also become a part of the energy transfer15:04
Macerin the end all energy is transfered to everything within the system15:04
Macerwhich is why absolute zero is impossible15:05
Suurorcaactually If you count surface exposure during pouring, you'll also want to count for thermal conductivity of the cup15:06
Suurorcawhich matters on depending the surrounding temperature15:06
Macerthe surrounding temperature is part of the system also15:07
Macerit would require more energy to heat or cool the cup and even teh cooling would produce heat from the energy required in order to do so15:08
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Suurorcalet's just say that the observable temperature of the liquid in the cup at the moment of mixing will indeed be slightly less if you pour the coffee first ;D15:09
Macerthe act of mixing adds energy to the liquid15:09
Macerso really the mixing creates energy which will increase the liquid to a negligible amount... the energy would then be spread throughout the entire system15:11
Macereither way. someone saying coffee sitting in a room is colder than the room is just wrong :)15:11
SpeedEvilThe mixing adds energy - however this is probably counterbalanced by more efficiently bringing hot liquid to the surfaces rahter than the slightly cooler liquid normally adjacent.15:11
SpeedEvilMacer: actually - not.15:12
SpeedEvilMacer: If the room is under 100% relative humidity, they are quite correct15:12
Macerthe humidity would be part of the system15:12
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SpeedEvilThe water in the coffee evaporates, cooling the coffee, in a room of under 100% humidity15:13
SpeedEvil(with the coffee initially at the same temperature as the room)15:13
SuurorcaMacer: : the question really is how you want to define your system15:14
TermanaWhen you have nothing else to do, discuss weather coffee goes lower than room temperature or not15:14
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MacerSpeedEvil: the transfering of energy would have to be from warmer to cooler. the evaporation of water is a phase of the water within the cup15:15
Macerso the evaporating water will simply become the same temperature as the system15:15
SpeedEvilMacer: The normal room is considerably larger than the cup.15:16
Macerif the cup is cooler than the system... then the cup will absorb energy from the surrounding system and find equilibrium15:16
SpeedEvilMacer: The coffee - once it equilibrates in temperature - continues have water evaporate from it at a rate more-or-less proportional to 100-relative-humidity in percent.15:16
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SpeedEvilThis cools the cup somewhat - with the energy needed to evaporate the water coming from the thermal energy of the room.15:17
Macerwhich doesn't mean it is cooler. it only means that this evaporation requires more energy from the surrounding system in order to maintain the equilibrium15:17
MacerSpeedEvil: ah.15:17
Macerok .. you are right.15:17
SpeedEvilIn the short term - while the coffee cup has not dried out - and the room has not got to 100% humidity - the cup is cooler than the room.15:17
LeoDso i see that there already are lots of great apps and ports for maemo.. will those also work on the N900?15:18
Macerthe energy requirement of the liquid during evaporation does indeed mean the cup would require energy from the system and be cooler15:18
Macerwell.. my mistake :)15:18
StskeepsLeoD: there's an effort to move much of it already15:18
Stskeepsfremantle introduced some UI changes so15:18
LeoDah, ok15:18
LeoDgreat :)15:18
MacerStskeeps: how goes mer?15:19
Suurorcaamazing... a physics argument where one side admints being wrong :o15:19
Macer3D ui yet?15:19
MacerSuurorca: hey. when you're wrong you're wrong :)15:19
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StskeepsMacer: didn't you see meiz's TB video?15:20
Maceri gave up on my TB haha15:20
StskeepsMeizirkki: give macer the url for your tb fremantle desktop video :P15:20
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Macernow i am going to have to work up equations on a cup being in a room haha15:21
* Macer puts on his neoprene gloves and white lab coat15:21
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SuurorcaMacer: I tried to have such arguments back in my college days with people. For some reason it's usually impossible to make people admit they were wrong even if you manage to make them understand it ;D15:21
MacerSuurorca: that's everybody15:22
Macerhaha. very rare that you will find someone to admit they were wrong in life15:22
SpeedEvilI hate people like that. I try my hardest to actually work out if I am wrong.15:22
Macerbut SpeedEvil was right and i just simply didn't see it :)15:22
SpeedEvilAnd to not start out arguments where I might be too :)15:22
SuurorcaAnd sorry for not exactly contributing anything useful to the previous one,my head aches too much to have a fast paced science argument in english ;(15:23
MacerMeizirkki: ok .. let me check it out15:23
SpeedEvilAvoiding bullshit and thinking before you type can actually lead people to thinking you have a clue :)15:23
MeizirkkiMacer, there's something wrong with the touch screen thought15:23
Maceryou mean the fact you have to almost pound on it?15:24
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Corsacmhmh, std desktop in netbook mode and mer/fremantle in tablet mode would be nice15:24
MeizirkkiMacer, yes15:25
Macerit isn't that there is something wrong with it. it's that the tech they used is a piece of shit15:25
sgbirchI understood that one huge advantage of the last update was that new updates would not have to be flashed.  But there dont seem to be any new updates. Why?15:25
MeizirkkiMacer, it's well calibrated tslib...15:26
Meizirkkithe problem is in clutter15:26
sgbirchIn fact .. I am amazed at how infrequently the n810 is updated15:26
sgbirchnice hw but old cold15:26
MeizirkkiMacer, yes see at the beginning of the video the desktop menu doesn't even show up15:26
sgbirchscared the n900 will go the same way15:26
Maceri thought the problem was with the fact it is a pressurized touch screen15:26
MeizirkkiMacer, no, it's clutter that fails..15:27
Maceri thought tslib did a good job in aios15:27
Macerat the least it prevented the pointer from jumping all over the place15:27
MeizirkkiYes, same in Mer15:27
Maceri still hate the damn thing and regret buying it :) i was going to sell it to Stskeeps for 250 with the kb and shipping included if he wanted it15:28
Macerhe might find a use for it15:28
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Macerlast time i ever buy anything from a start-up15:28
Maceror preordered15:28
MeizirkkiI really like it :)15:28
MacerMeizirkki: hah... well. Stskeeps probably has the same mentality15:29
Macerthe thing makes me disgusted :)15:29
Macerdid they ever release aios 2009.10?15:29
* Macer is going to assume no15:29
Meizirkkiit's not for ppl expexting Apple quality products :P15:29
Maceri wasn't15:29
MeizirkkiMacer, not yet15:29
Macerbut i wasn't expecting it to be nearly as bad as it is :)15:29
Maceri mean cmon. the screen blanks on its own for no apparent reason15:29
Macerdid you see my bug?15:30
MeizirkkiMacer, no15:30
Macergregoire says "i don't believe it is hardware or software"15:30
Meizirkkiand the screen blank happens on ly 1 or 2 times a day with ubuntu15:30
Maceri shook it around to make sure there weren't any cockroaches in it15:30
Meizirkkii guess it is the X driver15:30
Macerit happens more with mine.. sometimes it does it once a day sometimes ten times in an hour15:30
TermanaI watched whoevers video that was. My god. Is that even USEABLE?15:31
MeizirkkiIt starts happening when the battery gets low here15:31
Meizirkkijust guessing15:31
MacerMeizirkki: it happens on mine when i am charging15:31
Suurorcahmm. Maybe I should get in to the business of spirit healing ill-behaving devices. Sure seems to work well enough for people =)15:31
MeizirkkiTermana, no it's not15:31
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Macerit was a good idea. but it is just a piece of crap :)15:32
Maceri should have just saved the money and gotten a beagleboard15:32
CorsacMacer: you are a piece of crap :)15:32
TermanaBut the original OS isn't useable either is it?15:32
MacerCorsac: don't get all frenchie on me :-P15:32
MeizirkkiTermana, it is15:32
Meizirkkibut i don't like it15:32
CorsacMacer: oh come on15:32
Maceri know it is hard to hear that a french product sucks.. but... :)15:32
Meizirkkii prefer Ubuntu + LXDE15:32
Macerthe truth hurts sometimes haha15:33
MeizirkkiMacer, LOL15:33
CorsacMacer: it's an us product, first15:33
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CorsacMacer: then, please don't go on that way15:33
MeizirkkiMacer, please go away :P15:33
MacerCorsac: :-)15:33
Corsacyou keep saying it's crap, it's become a /little/ boring15:33
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Corsacsure it's nowhere near a finished product15:33
MacerCorsac: well... he asked15:33
Corsacbut please, please, please15:33
Corsacstop fud'ing15:33
MacerCorsac: bought some AI stock? :)15:33
TermanaWhy is the TB unable to run Mer to any degree of goodness?15:34
qwerty12_N900Macer: Don't surrender =)15:34
MacerTermana: naw. it could run mer pretty well15:34
Corsacbecause you don't want to get your hands dirty (which was the point, and still is) doesn't mean it's bad15:34
StskeepsTermana: the drivers in use are a bit dubious on TB15:34
TermanaStskeeps - Is the Nokia N810 software rendering as bad as that? :P15:35
MacerCorsac: lol. i gave up when i realized the bitbaking instructions would not work for building the ai stuff :)15:35
CorsacMacer: it perfectly works for me15:35
MacerCorsac: really? what os?15:35
Maceri tried on debian and it seemed to fail15:35
Corsacyou fail, that's all15:35
MacerCorsac: french lies! :)15:35
Corsacok, stop15:36
StskeepsMacer: did your kernel succeed?15:36
Corsacget lost15:36
CorsacI'm ignoring you15:36
MacerStskeeps: no :(15:36
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Macertried with the mer src from gitorious15:36
Macerkept giving me oddball ehci erros15:36
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Macerseemed to have gotten rather far. i tried to paste the errors in order to find out why .. i was building it natively on the tb15:37
Macerreally just to see if i could get teh cpufreq stuff working and possibly pm15:37
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MacerCorsac: ne peut pas prendre une plaisanterie ?15:39
RST38hIs 4.9-5.5MB/s the correct USB transfer speed when copying stuff to N900?15:41
RST38hOr am I missing something?15:41
Macerto an sd?15:41
Macerisn't a c6 sd max 6MB/s?15:42
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Maceror is that minimum ?15:42
SpeedEviltransfer speed is often sharply limited by SoC speeds.15:42
RST38hNo, the internal 32GB storage15:43
SpeedEvilMany SoCs can't talk to SDs as fast as some things.15:43
SpeedEvilIt could also of course be the raw speed.15:43
StskeepsMacer: just grab the mer kernel source package and dpkg-buildpackage -b15:43
Macerwhere is the mer kernel source package?15:44
Maceri thoughtt hat was what i downloaded from gitorious15:44
Stskeepsin OBS, and you have to use login15:45
Maceractually Stskeeps ... did you make any newer kernels for it?15:45
Stskeepsand i'm not going to hear you bitch about it15:45
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MacerStskeeps: honestly. i'd love to but i'm done. if you want it for 250 with shipping let me know. i would rather sell it and make up the 1/3 of the n900 money ;)15:46
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RST38hMake Sts and johnx bid on it =)15:47
Macerhalf price seems fair15:47
Macerwatch. i'm goign to send it to him and 3 weeks later i will see some video with him making it project hot holographic sex slaves by sliding your finger across the screen15:48
esaym153does the n810 support 8bg sdhc cards?15:49
RST38hMacer: That would be lcuk probably =)15:50
RST38hStskeeps most does the kernel stuff15:50
Stskeepsnah, middleware and base system15:51
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StskeepsMacer: means of payment if so?15:51
Stskeepspaypal? :P15:51
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Meizirkkiesaym153, yes, it does15:54
MacerStskeeps: sure. paypal will work. i'll msg you my paypal email address...15:55
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Maceri'm going to have to retrieve my paypal info :) it has been a while15:56
Macerwoah. awesome. haha15:57
Stskeepsif it's ok, let me think for a day15:57
Maceroh. no problem. it's not like i'm trying to score some meth money ;)15:58
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Macertake your time. it's here if you want it. i'll give you dibs on it15:59
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Macerbelieve it or not. it's stashed away under my bed now because i don't even want to look at it15:59
Stskeepsand it's both touchscreen part and keyboard part?15:59
Macerthe thing would have been pointless without the kb16:00
Maceryou're a developer though.. you might have far better luck with it than i have16:00
Stskeepshow many inches were the screen again?16:01
Maceri want to say 916:01
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Macerthe screwdriver was invented before the screw16:29
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* GeneralAntilles sighs at elaborationless "we're working on it"'s.16:39
GeneralAntillesNokia's track record implementing stuff leads me not to trust them to do that on their own. <_<16:40
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GeneralAntillesStuff like:
povbotBug 5431: HildonTouchSelector: Can't jump to entries with keyboard (type ahead)16:41
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GeneralAntillesNokia hasn't really justified having a "Trust us, we're working on it" attitude.16:53
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MeizirkkiWhat's the correct apt repository line for fremantle free / non-free16:54
Meizirkkii got the nokia-binaries line by accepting the EULA but i can't get those free / nonfree conponents to work..16:55
Stskeepsuse the sdk ones16:56
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Meizirkkideb fremantle/sdk free non-free ?16:58
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fralsdoh, learning pygtk would be alot easier if would resolve17:01
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woglindefrals learn pyqt17:02
fralsguess i might as well do that17:02
pupnikwhy is python 15 MB?  seems... big17:04
pupnikhopefully it can go in opt17:04
pupnikhi woglinde17:04
JaffaOh, that reminds me. Need to publish my Python optification results17:04
pupnikqtnx is close to awesome17:05
woglindepupnik thanksks17:05
* Stskeeps notes to self n900 upnp support is neat.17:05
pupniki wouÃld like to bind a key or button to toggle pan-mode17:05
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pupnikso i can get rid of scrollbars17:05
woglindepupnik support softkeyboard I didnt achieve17:05
pupnikknow what i mean woglinde17:06
woglindepupnik yes17:06
pupnikahh :/17:06
pupnikgood idea?17:06
woglindestrange is with raw x support it strts fullmode17:06
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pupnikraw x is bypassing gtk?17:07
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woglindepupnik you can try out x2go17:10
woglindetheire client has some more features17:10
woglindebut you have to use theire server17:11
pupnikyou might notice that some linux apps require 600pixels height, so investigating panning could be worthwhile17:11
pupnikok, ty17:11
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pupnikmaybe ctrl*dpad17:13
pupnikbrowsing via qtnx is very nice compared to n81017:14
woglindeeven flash should work in lan17:15
pupnikare there foss clients for MS remote desktop?17:16
pupnikno clients17:16
pupnikwoulÃd rdesktop be a good candidate for tablets?17:17
GAN900Stskeeps, I just wish I didn't have to keep reconnecting to WiFi to get my UPnP shares back.17:18
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JaffaAnyone heard of Python app installation issues on 2.2009.45-14?17:29
JaffaAh, internal Nokia.17:31
RST38h45-14 is soooo internal17:34
JaffaI thought I saw a ref to an updated firmware available. It was on Twitter though, so don't hold much truck with it.17:38
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SpeedEvil - best twitter ever.17:45
RST38hJaffa: available where though?17:47
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VDVsxJaffa, where did you heard that ? :P18:01
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JaffaVDVsx: Someone on Twitter. I ignored it.18:10
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VDVsxJaffa, he can be right ;)18:11
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RST38hWell, there is no doubt that 45-xx is "available". The question is to whom it is available.18:15
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cedaHi, I'd like to popup a TouchSelectorEntry from an option in a AppMenu - in other words: I don't have a PickerButton and I can't find out how to connect to the Done button's signal18:16
cedaI'm using python18:16
cedaon, and I can trigger a segfault (using scratchbox)18:17
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JaffaRST38h: Indeed.18:23
JaffaHmmm, tablet-encode doing a 720p video to 800x480 looks damned good on the N900 :)18:23
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t_s_ocrap, seems the center dpad have gone unresponsive...18:49
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t_s_oseems it was a software issue, as yanking the battery (it was in locked mode) fixed the problem...18:52
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Flandryany way to get packages removed from extras-devel?19:03
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JaffaFlandry: ask on maemo-developers, ask X-Fade (on holiday), ask jeremiah19:14
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Jaffathp: Vala 0.7.8 with Fremantle Hildon patches now on its way to autobuilder.19:18
Stskeepshm, would it be possible to make statusbar items with vala?19:19
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TesterHow can I find out who uploaded a package to extras-devel ?19:22
woglindetester hm I think you cannt see this19:22
woglindeonly server admins19:23
TesterI'm not certain who to report avahi-daemon problems to19:23
Testerpackaging problem19:23
JaffaTester: What's the package?19:25
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JaffaOh, avahi-daemon19:25
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woglindehm maybee the uploader policy shoul be forced19:26
woglindedeb format has a uploader field19:27
JaffaTester: No maintainers listed on and no build log on either19:27
woglindeso at least in the source package its shown19:27
RST38hdeb format has maintainer19:27
RST38hthat is usually enough19:27
woglinderst nope19:27
woglinderst when a debian package is just good eniugh19:27
TesterRST38h: in this case, the maintainer is "debian team"19:27
woglindei dont have to change it19:27
qwerty12_N900Tester: What version of Maemo?19:27
Testerqwerty12_N900: fremantle19:27
woglinderst thats why there is a uploader field too19:28
woglindethat would perfectly fit in this case19:28
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qwerty12_N900Tester: It was uploaded by "jhs_s". No idea where he can be found...19:30
woglindeqwerty where is this shown?19:30
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hrw|oedemso extras allows uploads without email addrfess?19:30
Testerah I know him ;)19:31
qwerty12_N900woglinde: The logs for the Fremantle builder19:31
woglindeqwerty hm19:31
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Testeralright, I found him ;)19:33
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Jaffaqwerty12_N900: Hmm, why didn't I see it?19:36
qwerty12_N900Jaffa: There's an old/ folder, too19:37
Jaffaqwerty12_N900: Ah. Ta.19:37
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qwerty12_N900Evening, crashanddie. Good trip?19:37
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crashanddieyo qwerty12_N90019:39
crashanddieqwerty12_N900, yeah, pretty good, actually, amazing19:39
crashanddieI so want to move there19:39
crashanddieI had to do this presentation about Maemo and the N900 to a few execs19:39
crashanddielike an idiot... I forgot my N900 here in the UK19:39
crashanddieanyway, I managed to get another one from a Nokia R&D in MV19:40
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crashanddiemountain view19:41
* qwerty12_N900 is tempted to smash this N900 against a wall. It fails in one area my N810 does well - playing nice with my el shitty router19:41
pupnikthat is unusual19:42
crashanddieactually, I quite like the performance of the wifi on the N90019:42
pupnikseemed fine here19:42
crashanddieI get a lot more signal in places my laptops don't even see the networks anymore19:42
RST38hqwerty: what is the exact problem?19:44
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qwerty12_N900RST38h: Refuses to communicate with the outside world. It says it's still connected, but it doesn't actually let me go on anything and IRC stops "updating". Wi-Fi PSM turned off and it's been pinging Google in the background... Didn't do much good, however, as you just saw19:46
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qwerty12_N900So I have to switch between Offline mode and Normal mode and reconnect19:46
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qwerty12_N900That's one pissed coyote19:49
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RST38hqwerty: Maybe replace the router?19:53
RST38hBut, wait, are we talking of connecting to the tablet from the outside or about connecting from the tablet TO the outside?19:53
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qwerty12_N900RST38h: Doesn't matter: both fail, anyway. But, yeah, getting a new router would be best19:54
Stskeepsput up a paypal fund? :P19:55
Stskeeps(i'd donate.)19:56
SpeedEvilI'll donate a router, if you collect. (and help moving some wood)19:56
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qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: Well, thanks, but I have nothing that is donation-worthy, so... :)19:57
Stskeepsrootsh? ;p19:57
qwerty12_N900SpeedEvil: Eeek... I have a feeling that you would be demanding money from me after the damage I caused...19:58
Flandrywtf is up with scratchbox that it keeps failing to be able to resolve the repo19:58
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: Merger of easyroot and rootsh19:58
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SpeedEvilchinese and beansprout pan19:59
* Stskeeps should try to compile latest maemo-mapper20:00
Flandryis there supposed to be an /etc/hosts file in scratchbox?20:00
* RST38h considers filing a bug for the missing description item in HildonCheckBox20:01
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RST38hThe UX guy's explanation sounded really cheesy =(20:01
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RST38hsuihkulokki: a moment20:02
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qwerty12_N900RST38h: Sounds futile. Just steal ConboyCheckButton from Conboy's sources :-)20:04
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RST38hqwerty: I really think this should be present by default20:05
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RST38hqwerty: Will have to check if S60's Avkon supports it20:05
* qwerty12_N900 nods20:06
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Flandrysomeone please check /etc/hosts from scratchbox20:06
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Flandryi have exactly the same /etc/resolv.conf file on the box OS  and in scratchbox. I can ping from the OS but from with scratchbox it won't resolve the domain name. Any ideas?20:17
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igagisHi All20:21
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igagisI'm still having problem installing maemo-cplusplus-env in FREMANTLE_X8620:22
igagisapt-get update fails with GPG error20:22
igagisdon't know how to resolve this20:22
igagisany suggestions?20:23
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igagisis it possible to submit a bug against repo somewhere? in some bug tracker?20:25
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qwerty12_N900igagis: GPG has encountered an error, yes, but apt will go on, as referenced by the "W(arning):" just before that message20:26
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igagisqwerty12_N900: it does not go on in my case20:26
kamihi @ll20:26
igagisqwerty12_N900: it stops working20:27
igagisqwerty12_N900: have a look:
qwerty12_N900What exactly is not working? Have you actually tried installing something after updating? :)20:28
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igagisqwerty12_N900: yes, please have alook at the pastebin link above20:28
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mikkov__igagis: did you do apt-get -f install ?20:29
igagismikkov__: no, I did not20:29
igagismikkov__: I can try that but not sure it will resolve the problem20:30
igagismikkov__: as I understand it will force installing some packages without resolving dependencies for them, right?20:30
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mikkov__igagis: I get the same GPG warning20:31
igagismikkov__: you have extras-devel in sources.list as I do?20:32
mikkov__igagis: yes20:33
mikkov__igagis: try the -f install20:33
igagismikkov__: so, are you able to install maemo-cplusplus-env?20:33
mikkov__igagis: yes20:33
igagismikkov__: ok, will try that20:33
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RST38h"Well, thank god we can at least repair the damn thing if we damage itassuming we can find what's broken in it. Hell, maybe it's already broken"20:35
RST38hWhy do I feel like it is written about Maemo?20:36
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igagismikkov__: with -f install I was able installing it. Thanks20:39
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BBNSahh why Fennec isn't optified ...21:31
GeneralAntillesBBNS, they're working on it, apparently.21:32
GeneralAntillesRST38h, UX guys always have terrible answers.21:32
GeneralAntillesI like that they try to justify Android's screwedupedness by saying it's to fit it into phones.21:34
GeneralAntilles770 has less horsepower than any Android phone and managed it.21:34
derfOne word: Java.21:35
Suurorcawhat exactly is involved in optifying? I kinda imagined simple --prefix at compile would do it21:36
* GeneralAntilles feels at least a little justified in his views based on the number of Android people at FLS who instantly jumped ship.21:36
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, welcome back.21:36
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, thanks21:36
crashanddieyou guys want to know the irony?21:37
crashanddieI've done my maemo presentation and shit21:37
crashanddieand basically the response was "Well, it's good you have mobile experience, fancy working on android?"21:37
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GeneralAntillesYeah, the technical arguments don't hold much sway with non-technical folks.21:38
BBNSGeneralAntilles: thanks =) good to hear.21:38
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GeneralAntillesAll they see are sales numbers.21:38
derfIt works that way for customers, too.21:38
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, this was for, amongst others, the CTO and VP is products21:38
GeneralAntillesMaybe they'll change their mind once the platform gets some traction in the retail space.21:39
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GeneralAntillesI mean, from a business perspective they're making the right choice.21:39
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, by the way, how in the world did you manage to leave your N900 on the wrong side of the ocean? . . .21:41
GeneralAntillesI can hardly walk the house without having mine with me21:42
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, taxi was waiting outside21:42
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, I ran out gave him my bags, went back up, checked if I had everything, thought "phones", padded my pockets, felt loads of stuff, and ran off21:42
GeneralAntillesI'd probably remember this thing if /zombies/ were waiting outside. ;)21:43
crashanddieonly when we were half-way through to the airport did I notice I only had the blackberry with me21:43
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SpeedEvilkonttori: that offer has stupid restrictions.21:51
SpeedEvilkonttori: (limit 20 per customer)21:51
Corsachmhm, can n810 do video chats without skype?21:52
derf"First Maemo phone with Raw Computer Power"21:52
TesterCorsac: the n810 doesnt do skype video21:52
derfWTF does that even mean?21:52
TesterCorsac: only xmpp and sip21:52
Testerthere is no mobile device that does skype video21:53
CorsacTester: hmmh, but it has a video, hasn't it?21:53
Testerit does21:53
Testerfor sipp and xmpp21:53
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Corsachmh ok21:54
GeneralAntillesderf, dunno, it makes no sense.21:56
GeneralAntillesSince it's the first Maemo phone period.21:56
derfI love marketers.21:56
GeneralAntillesI like how one of the bundle offers is the AC-8U.21:56
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* konttori was looking at date, which is different from the previous statement on 16th22:03
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pwnguinGeneralAntilles: the charger?22:04
pwnguini was looking at the newegg for n900, and one of thier "frequently bought with" items was a wall plug22:04
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dreamer_am I correct that maemo is full glibc not uclibc?22:06
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GeneralAntillespwnguin, N900 uses AC-10U.22:08
pwnguineven better22:08
GeneralAntillesdreamer_, right.22:08
dreamer_GeneralAntilles: thanks22:08
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: it comes with one right?22:08
dreamer_are there any docs no rebuilding the kernel for the n900, and flashing procedures?22:09
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GeneralAntillespwnguin, lol, of course.22:09
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: i just dont get why people would buy them together then22:09
infobotflasher is, like,
GeneralAntillespwnguin, I like having more than one charger.22:10
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: yea, but its usb22:10
GeneralAntillesOne at my desk, one on my nightstand, one at my parent's house and one at work.22:10
GeneralAntillesUSB is SLOOOOW22:10
pwnguinmy clock has USB22:10
pwnguinslow at charging?22:10
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GeneralAntillesUSB provides about 500mA22:11
GeneralAntillesThe AC-10U provides 1200mA22:11
GeneralAntillesSo USB charging is really goddamn slow.22:11
GeneralAntillesEspecially if you're doing anything with the device.22:11
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pwnguini didnt realize their charger exceeded usb specs22:11
GeneralAntillesMost USB chargers do.22:12
pwnguinnote to self: dont charge anything else with it22:12
GeneralAntilles500mA isn't much.22:12
GeneralAntillesErm, 1200mA is an indication of capacity.22:12
GeneralAntillesVoltage is what you want to worry about22:12
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pwnguinmAh is capacity22:12
GeneralAntillesand, assuming nobody's being evil, USB is USB in that case.22:12
GeneralAntillesFor batteries.22:12
pwnguinelectricity is hard. lets go shopping!22:13
GeneralAntillesWhen a charger is rated for a certain number of amps, that tells you how much power it's CAPABLE of putting out22:13
GeneralAntillesNot how hard it's going to cook anything that needs less.22:13
GeneralAntillesVoltage is the indicator for that.22:13
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pwnguinstill, i dont need a charger for the car, it already has a USB plug22:14
pwnguini wonder what its specs are now22:14
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: can you push more than 500 mA through USB wire, or is it a fire hazard?22:15
GAN900Usually car chargers are in the 300-800mA range.22:15
GAN900Depending on the charger.22:15
pwnguinits literally built into the car22:15
GAN900pwnguin, you can22:15
GAN900and I believe devices may be able to negotiate for more than 500mA in certain cases.22:16
pwnguinright next to the audio jack and a spare cigarete lighter plug22:16
GAN900pwnguin, your manual may say.22:16
pwnguinbut im guessing i'll have to hit the library up for the specifics, personally22:17
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lardmanevening all22:19
GeneralAntillesHey, lardman.22:19
lardmanhi GeneralAntilles22:19
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konttoriafaik, n900 has trouble working with non-nokia chargers that are claiming to be mass storage profile instead of charger profile.22:24
konttorias n900 will try to handshake those and won't charge until handshake is complete.22:24
Moo___konttori: well doesn't sthat sound like a resonable behavior? :)22:25
doc|homewhy would a charger pretend to be mass storage?22:25
konttoriwell, yeah, but for some reason many devices are not working like that22:25
konttoriapparently many pretend mass transfer for nintendo ds support22:26
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GeneralAntillesAh, USB.22:26
GeneralAntillesWho would've guessed it'd suck? :roll:22:26
Moo___konttori: many *chinese* devices? :)22:27
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konttorilol, well, they were not cream of the crop devices22:28
konttoribut yeah, if I had bought one and it didn't work, I'd be pissed.22:29
ShadowJKThe problem with usb charging is that there's a zillion random methods and practices used before it was standardized22:29
konttoriof course, the reason is mostly the sucky spec22:29
ShadowJKthat too :)22:29
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pwnguinkonttori: did the DSi go to microUSB for charging?22:33
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dreamer_if the prefered root device is set to mmc and the mmc card isn't bootable will it still try and boot off internal flash?22:33
GeneralAntillespwnguin, the port isn't MicroUSB as far as I can tell.22:33
konttoripwnguin: dunno22:33
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GeneralAntillesdreamer_, yes.22:34
pwnguinif its not microUSB i dont understand the statemetn about mass storage profile for nds support22:34
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ian_rkonttori: i can't seem to build a .deb with theme maker. on os x it stalls at 1%, and on ubuntu it builds the theme directory but no deb.22:35
ShadowJKOne "charging chip", random plugs on the end, in random form factors and fits by random companies?22:36
ian_rhi all, btw22:36
konttoriian_r DId it build all the image files?22:36
konttoriyou use 1.2.4?22:36
konttori(yep for both?)22:36
konttoriyou need to click the build debian22:37
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konttorieh, make debian22:37
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konttorithat will create <theme>_all.deb22:37
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ian_rlol that was an obvious fix. i thought i had tried that, but i guess only on the mac.22:41
ian_rany idea why it's not working on os x?22:41
ian_rkonttori, any info about when a fremantle-compatible version of hildon-theme-tools might be released?22:46
konttoriian_r: sorry, what is not working on mac?22:46
konttoriian_r: the theme tools should all be out already22:47
ian_rTM stalls at 1% everytime i try to build22:47
ian_ron the mac22:47
konttorihmm... strange.22:47
konttoriespecially considering that's where I dev and test22:47
Stskeepskonttori: sure?22:48
Stskeeps(re theme tools)22:48
* Stskeeps checks22:48
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konttorihmm... if you use the linux shellscript to open theme maker in mac, will it work then?22:48
ian_ri'll try that22:49
konttoriStskeeps: it might be that the template is missing22:49
ian_ryeah the latest version i see was updated 5 months ago, and i don't think it has the fremantle layout22:49
Stskeepskonttori: yeah.. waiting for hildon-theme-layout-5 and hildon-theme-tools .. not sure they are on gitorious or SDK repo, couldn't find them at last glance22:50
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Stskeepstemplate can wait till after sales release :P22:50
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konttoriStskeeps: we'll publish some variant template base afaik22:51
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Stskeepswe're using output from TM right now in mer, it works :P22:51
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zerojayHeh.. nice seeing Jussi demoing the N900 at the Helsinki meetup with one of my Mario wallpapers. ;P22:53
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Might need to change my mask for the cloak now that I've moved.22:54
GeneralAntilleszerojay, it doesn't matter what your hostmask is.22:54
GeneralAntillesIt's based on NickServ.22:54
zerojayAh, cool.22:55
Moo___is n900 currently capable of playing 480p h264?22:55
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Moo___or is it possible even in theory?22:55
ShadowJK480p? yes22:56
ShadowJKiirc a test 640x480 video I made played fine on someone's n90022:57
* Moo___ going to give it a shot22:57
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ian_rkonttori: TM on OS X does build the theme directory when launched with the linux shell script, but no .deb even after hitting Make Debian22:58
Moo___d'oh mkv container22:58
konttoriyou need to have the dpkg-deb in the same folder where theme maker is22:59
ian_ri do22:59
ian_rit's 1.2.4, so dpkg-deb was included22:59
konttoriexecute permission?22:59
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lardmanwa-hey, just built an mbarcode deb23:08
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* lardman searches for the correct AWS to provide item data23:11
lardmanhmm, I don't see the Product Advertising API any more23:13
dreamer_what package can I find the .config from the kernel in?23:15
lardmanshould be in the kernel source23:15
dreamer_lardman: I'm looking in the kernel source tar from and don't see anything that strikes me as the n900's config23:19
dreamer_there is an n800 config23:20
dreamer_no n900 though23:20
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lardmanyeah, rx51 is N90023:20
dreamer_any clue what rx71 is?23:21
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lardmansome yet-to-arrive device23:21
dreamer_thanks for the help :)23:22
lardmannp, I didn't do much anyway ;)23:22
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wazdjust saw the first impressive thing made by apple for me23:47
wazdmacbook pro power indicator, wonder how it's done23:48
Stskeepsin terms of?23:48
wazdit disappears when it's not active23:48
wazdand it's made in aluminium casing23:48
pwnguinyour charger disappears?23:49
wazdI was like "w00t?!"23:49
GeneralAntilleswazd, plastic. ;)23:50
pwnguinits a light that turns off23:51
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wazdGeneralAntilles: that front is plastic?23:51
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pwnguinapple did not invent transparent aluminum23:51
GeneralAntilleswazd, just that section, probably.23:51
* GeneralAntilles really digs the Mac Pro.23:51
GeneralAntillesIt's an absolute pleasure to work inside.23:51
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wazdGeneralAntilles: no, can't see any borders23:52
wazdpwnguin: it's not just the light, it shines thru the case23:52
pwnguinwazd: just like it does on the imac23:52
* GeneralAntilles still says plastic.23:52
pwnguinand on some other, non-apple devices23:52
wazdpwnguin: I don't know how it does on the iMac :)23:53
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GeneralAntillesSo much Mozilla spam on Planet.23:53
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, maybe the whole front frame is plastic23:53
GeneralAntillesp.m.o really is accurate. <_<23:53
wazdanyway, that's impressing :)23:53
* GeneralAntilles is somewhat jaded about Apple hardware.23:55
GeneralAntillesI haven't been particularly impressed with the durability of their laptops over the past 4/5 years.23:56
GeneralAntillesI think I was spoiled by the older Apple laptops. . . .23:56
wazdbut that light still can't stand against shiny iPod backs23:56
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wazdIve's still going to hell :D23:57
* ShadowJK wants a booklet :(23:57
ShadowJKactually, I'd want a laptop with dual ethernet23:57
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ShadowJKthat runs linux23:58
wazdand ponies :)23:58
ShadowJKbonus points if it has fibre optic ports23:58
* ShadowJK was trying to troubleshoot vista failure today23:58
ShadowJKI'd needed such a beast23:58
pupnikand what is wron with a computer-first - phone-second device?23:59

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