IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-11-08

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ShadowJKespecially since I use web, irc and media features more than sms and calls even on my symbian s60 phone00:01
Stskeepssounds like a n900 is just for you00:01
dolphinisn't that like eating with fork -- lift?00:02
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pupnikmust eat food now, thankx00:02
dolphinget's the thing done, but impractical as hell for the task00:03
* GeneralAntilles tries to clean up MS-generated HTML.00:04
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* Stskeeps tries out maemo-mapper clutter version00:09
Stskeepsright, crashes, good to know00:11
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GeneralAntillesIt's amazing the kind of shit Microsoft forces on people.00:11
* b-man17 HATES Microsoft00:11
GeneralAntillesPeople call Apple bad, but at least they generate something that looks vaguely like HTML.00:12
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wazdGeneralAntilles: install Dreamweaver -> Clean up MS word HTML00:19
GeneralAntilleswazd, really?00:20
wazdGeneralAntilles: or just clean up html00:20
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wazdGeneralAntilles: removes some weird tags00:21
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* GeneralAntilles smacks wazd for using Windows.00:23
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jdmi'm just starting out in maemo devt and working my way through the docs with the vmware appliance.  one thing i'm stuck on is the application manager is completely empty - should it have a list of apps in it?00:26
wazdGeneralAntilles: best OS atm :P00:27
GeneralAntilleswazd,  fail.00:27
qwerty12_N900wazd: Please tell me that is not Vista?00:27
wazdqwerty12_N900: sure it is :)00:27
qwerty12_N900Oh God00:27
qwerty12_N900Ah well, I'd rather use that over OS X, at least00:28
wazdqwerty12_N900: that's the only OS that suits my needs :)00:29
wazdqwerty12_N900: I'm too lazy to install 700:29
pwnguinpsh, install maemo x86!00:30
wazdcaust then I'll need to find and arrange tons of work files on the HDD00:30
wazdand they are really everywhere :D00:30
qwerty12_N900wazd: Hehe. I tried Vista but its slew of problems made me reinstall XP. Can't even be arsed to pirate 7 because Vista destroyed my faith in MS...00:30
wazdqwerty12_N900: you've pirated wrong vista maybe00:30
dmj7261windows 7 is just a fixed up version of vista00:31
wazdqwerty12_N900: I just caught a single BSOD in almost a year, after installing SP200:31
wazddmj7261: that's not true00:31
qwerty12_N900wazd: Nope, this was legit, HP were offering it £1000:31
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wazddmj7261: Vista SP2 is a fixed version of Vista :)00:31
dmj7261It's what MS should have been shipping 3 years ago.00:32
pwnguinwazd: actually, its pretty close. MS says anything that works with vista works with 700:32
pwnguinalthough, my vmware infra client doesnt work on 700:32
wazdpwnguin: is that bad? :D00:32
dmj7261Under the hood it's almost the exact same thing as vista00:32
pwnguinwazd: it means they didnt change much00:32
dmj7261...big ui changes to look more like kde 4 though.00:32
wazdpwnguin: that doesn't mean that 7 = Vista00:32
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* lbt is booking a flight ... they offer all kinds of meals. I think they should offer "last supper" as a trick to catch terrorists...00:33
dmj7261not 7 = vista00:33
dmj72617 ~ Vista00:33
wazdpwnguin: there's no API break maybe00:33
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dmj7261can you capture at 24 fps on n900?00:35
dmj7261I know it does 25, but is there an option for 24?00:35
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wazddon't want subliminal adds eh? :D00:36
dmj7261just want a frame rate that's semi standard in the US.00:36
dmj7261I'd love to have really smooth wvga at 30 fps, but 24 would be acceptable too.00:37
dreamer_anyone know the machine type in arch/arm the N900 falls under?00:37
luke-jrdmj7261: neither 30 nor 24 are standard00:40
dmj7261is there a way to set that?00:40
luke-jrwhat you really want is 23.97600:41
dmj7261is that supported?00:41
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dmj7261by 30 I do mean 29.97 or whatever it is.00:41
* GeneralAntilles is going to try reading just Community/Maemo 6/General once a day.00:41
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wazdMoscow n900 meetup will use paper n900 mockups I think :D00:52
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wazdAK-900 then :)00:55
dreamer_can the 3.5mm jack on the n900 be changed to headset mode, 1mono in 1 mono out?00:55
dreamer_or 1 mono in 1 stereo out?00:56
wazdIt's funny to see what weird things people expect from n90000:56
wazdwhen the iPhone came people were like "OMGITKALLZPONIES!"00:57
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dreamer_wazd: I don't see that as strange, normal audio chipsets with limited inputs allow for dynamic use of them, and seeing how it can be configured for stereo out + video out, that doesn't seem too far out of line00:59
wazddreamer_: no that's not about your particular case, just a thought00:59
Stskeepsdreamer_: n900 jack is multifunction, headset, tvout and stero out01:00
dreamer_its the first phone that really has linux on it, so anyone that doesn't see linux as just a buzzword, but knows what it means likes to get their hopes up ;)01:00
dreamer_Stskeeps, thanks :)01:00
dreamer_alsamixer can prob set its function then?01:00
Stskeepsno idea what devil stuff has been used this time around01:01
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dreamer_it is just gstreamer based, or is that tied into pulse as well?01:01
RST38hheya wazd, all01:03
RST38hAnyone can tell me how I can make Maemo5 GtkDialog take given percentage of the screen? At the moment, it tries to become as small as possible01:03
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DocScrutinizerdreamer_: (first phone with linux) that's not entirely correct ;-)01:05
johnxdreamer_, check what kind of headset nokia ships with it. IIRC, it's headphones with an included mic01:05
wazdRST38h: heya01:06
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DocScrutinizerdreamer_: for headset config see
dreamer_DocScrutinizer: the one produced by fic doesn't count, no hardware keyboard, and no x no real linux01:07
DocScrutinizerwhat's "no x" ?01:07
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DocScrutinizerand it's actualy NOT produced by FIC01:08
DocScrutinizernever was01:09
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johnxI'm really sad the openmoko didn't get a little further :|01:09
johnxat the very least we can learn some lessons from them01:09
DocScrutinizersure, but RIP01:09
dreamer_sorry, don't know where my mind went while typing, I don't consider it real linux without x01:09
DocScrutinizeryou bet01:10
johnxdreamer_, it has X11... (at least in one of the 6+ distros)01:10
DocScrutinizerdo you mean X?01:10
dreamer_yea, I kept waiting for them to release an openmoko handset with a hw keyboard, but that never happened01:10
DocScrutinizerI'd say in at least 301:10
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dreamer_x11 is part of a real linux distro, gui on framebuffer, or linux kernel + other stack != linux01:11
johnxhave to disagree there. the zaurus was very linux-y and had qt on fb01:11
DocScrutinizerdreamer_: same here, but my colleagues and esp Sean wasn't very excited by the idea to have that much buttons in the phone ;-D01:11
dreamer_zaurus had pdaxrom01:11
johnxyeah, had the same proliferation of distros the openmoko had01:12
johnxand they both sputtered out from lack of interest01:12
johnxcorrelation != causation and all, but it really makes me think01:12
dreamer_imo sharp made bad choices not including wifi+bluetooth01:12
DocScrutinizerdreamer_: FR *is* a "real linux", with full size X01:12
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dreamer_full x, so normal apps can be rebuilt to run on the device01:13
dreamer_I really hope the v6 device has hdmi out, and usb host01:14
dreamer_so I can plug it into a keyboard/mouse/monitor and not have to worry about a laptop01:14
dreamer_and higher res support on an external monitor01:15
DocScrutinizerv6 device?01:15
johnxdreamer_, sharp made some really horrible, totally anti-community choices repeatedly, but I think what really drove people away was the constant infighting between distros, and developers spread thin, working on too many incompatible projects01:15
dreamer_the next device in the progression of nokia's ultimate mobile device01:15
DocScrutinizeryeah, the flaw in hw for usb-host is a PITA01:15
dreamer_johnx: sharp never had a good community around the zaurus line01:15
johnxdreamer_, well, it's still omap3, so look around for an omap3 chip that supports all that01:15
dreamer_thats why nokia won01:15
johnxdreamer_, yeah, I think there's definitely something about cultivating a community, but I think there's also something about shipping a distro that at least 80% of people are happy with01:16
johnxespecially one that hackers and non-hackers are happy with01:16
DocScrutinizercouldn't agree more01:16
johnxon zaurus, users were happy with sharpROM, but hackers weren't01:17
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johnxso sharpROM, even though it worked, didn't get the cool stuff01:17
johnxand hackers working on their own projects, didn't always go out of their way to make things "user friendly"01:17
dreamer_hence a small dev community for normal users01:17
johnxexactly, with all the cool projects being on other "ROMs"01:18
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I think that's absolutely it.01:18
johnxwhich is why mer is compatible with maemo :)01:19
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DocScrutinizerwhich is one of the really great things about N90001:19
johnxDocScrutinizer, a community we hope to expand with mer, without fracturing it01:19
dreamer_and a larger market for a paid app to be marketed to01:20
* GeneralAntilles can't wait until it hits critical mass.01:20
johnxdreamer_, that'd be a neat side effect ;)01:20
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dreamer_anyone have an unofficial port of the stock kernel to a newer version?01:21
johnxdreamer_, on the n8x0 devices?01:21
dreamer_I want to apply one of the rt patches01:21
dreamer_but I need a different minor version01:21
johnxI think on the omap3, we should be less locked into a specific version01:22
GeneralAntillesjohnx, Ovi Store on Mer?01:22
johnxdreamer_, I'd have to wait until I could reflash before I start playing with that01:22
dreamer_I've spent a few hours working on it today, but if someone already merged in the trouble spots i'd rather go from there01:22
dreamer_I don't have one yet either, trying to get some of the boring work out of the way first01:22
pwnguinjohnx: should get mer running on a OpenPandora01:22
johnxGeneralAntilles, dunno. in my case at least I'm not too worried about paid apps. They'll happen once there is money to be made, irregardless of DRM, and "stores" and other stuff like that01:23
wazdok, gonna get some sleep, cya guys01:23
dreamer_pwngin: did they even ship01:23
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johnxpwnguin, yes. so much yes. I had my order in 15 minutes after pre-orders started01:23
pwnguindreamer_: i have no clue. i gave up on them, but if anyone wants to write software for it, it would be useful if it also ran on mer/maemo01:23
johnxdreamer_, are you looking at linux mainline or linux-omap?01:23
johnxdreamer_, no ship date yet, but there are pictures of the case mold (sp?) up01:24
johnxhang on, switching computers01:24
dreamer_from what I've read mineline + rt patch should give sub msec results01:24
dreamer_linux-omap didn't have much information on it from what I saw01:24
dreamer_*mineline = mainline01:24
lcukhey guys \o01:25
kamihi lcuk01:25
pwnguinjohnx: frankly, most of what i see from their community is emulator ports. *yawn*01:25
lcukpwnguin, what apps do you make then?01:26
Termanahopefully the ovi store doesn't end up like apple's app store - lots of useless apps from developers trying to grab a buck01:26
lcukwhy is that a problem?01:26
johnxpwnguin, yeah, all well and good! there's room for lots of people in a community. there's also original games01:26
lcukif people think they can make a useful app and their friends buy it, whos hurt01:26
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johnxand what if we had a version of linux that ended up making the pandora community and the Nokia devices community into one big maemo/mer community?01:27
pwnguinlcuk: rigth now im working on improving my employer's website.01:27
Termanalcuk - people will make crap apps instead of quality apps01:27
dreamer_I want to port hydrogen rackkarack fluidsynth and ardour . . . but I need a functional rt kernel and jack first01:27
pwnguinif i were to make a game, it'd probably be something to add to sgt-puzzles01:27
lcukpwnguin, i meant your own stuff01:27
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lcukanything - for you01:27
lcukTermana_n810, is doesnt matter the quality01:28
johnxTermana, will people who were going to make good apps actually decrease their quality? I don't see this as zero-sum01:28
lcukif your mates buy it, whats the prob bob01:28
dreamer_in that statement port != new gui01:28
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lcukif quality was a key factor in anything, things like 4chan wouldnt exist01:28
pwnguini also write personal webscrapers but that's a hard game to play01:28
johnxpwnguin, heh. I'd tend to lump webscrapers and emus into the same category :)01:29
dreamer_pwnguin: n900 comes with perl, it has a webscraper already01:29
lcuklol johnx01:29
lcukpwnguin, what do you use the webscraping for?01:29
pwnguinlots of stuff01:29
lcuklike? whats your killer app that needs data like that01:30
pwnguincomic pages, torrents, jobs01:30
lcukemulators are just like webscrapers - they just scrape old code01:30
dreamer_I'd like a widget that listens bound to localhost on a given port that you can spit json data to from a background daemon and have it display stuff01:30
dreamer_then write your scraper in perl, or whatever you like01:30
lcuktheres a great site to scrape data from01:31
pwnguinmy point is it's pretty lame to build an open source gaming platform thats mainly emulators01:32
lcuko_O my first 100 followers
lcukpwnguin, its not mainly emulators01:32
pwnguinyou know what emulates NES, DMG, GBC, GBA, SNES and plays nds perfectly?01:32
lcuki tried a couple of these emulators, but they dont do anything01:32
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lcukso i installed supertux and havent stopped playin it01:33
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dreamer_game dev content creation takes alot of work01:34
pwnguinsometimes, yes01:34
lcukvery technical question@   full disk encryption, is it compatible with maemo, can i just build and install on the fremantle stack01:34
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pwnguinhow would you enter the decryption key?01:34
lcuki dunno how it works, im merely asking the question i was asked01:35
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lcukbut for the sake of argument, lets assume it was only MyDocs01:35
lcukso wasnt needed for the boot procedure01:35
pwnguinubuntu uses a fuse encryption tool, and i think maemo supports fuse01:35
pwnguinso call me crazy, but i think its doable01:36
lcuki know its not entirely practical, but if someone wanted it.  thats good to know.01:36
lcukits more a "yes, this is a serious linux" :)01:36
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pwnguindreamer_: if you sidestep the graphics problem its usually not too hard to build a game01:37
pwnguini mean, theres countless roguelikes, and vector art games01:37
* lcuk dreams of new games01:38
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lcukwifi @ #bcman2 today was slow01:38
lcukit wouldv been cool to just hop on and use multicast to play in the area01:38
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pwnguinits too bad soulfu is such a crazy source code license01:39
pwnguini got it building and patched for ubuntu but theres no way in hell it'll get into debian =/01:39
pwnguinand i seriously doubt it builds on arm01:39
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pwnguinthey took a skeletal animation and cel shading approach to skimp on the art effort01:40
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lcuki was teasing the cat before01:42
lcukdrawing on liqbase and having it projected on the wall01:42
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DocScrutinizer(cryptfs) I consider that a rather valid usecase, for business applications where you really need to make sure your data won't stray. And I don't see where it shuld cause any special maemo related problems01:58
GeneralAntilleswiretapped, you sneaky bastard.01:59
* lardman gives a final curse to web application REST stuff, then heads for bed01:59
lardmannight all02:00
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b-man17lol, the angstrom image builder died on me xD02:06
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markus__hi guys, can everyone apt-get update through the repositories? or are they down?02:39
jeremiahgarage appears to be up02:40
pupnik_since your question wont be answered until all others have already answered, i will wait for them first02:40
jeremiahSo the repos should be available.02:40
markus__ahh ok. my armel updates, but x86 won't, strange. is there any way to download them manually?02:42
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jeremiahmarkus__: There is, but it might take forever02:43
jeremiahThe repos live behind a content delivery network02:43
jeremiahSo you are probably pulling down from a mirror02:44
jeremiahIf your mirror has gone bad, the network should switch you to something else02:44
pupnik_have you been able to update repos in x86 before today markus__ |02:44
jeremiahCheck that you have the right path in your /etc/apt/sources.list02:45
markus__Not the release.gpg, no02:46
markus__sources.list appears to be correct too02:46
jeremiahI am able to pull down debs from the repos, so it appears to be working here.02:46
markus__What a pain, any other tricks?02:49
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yuizydo i need some tricks to compile qt apps for n900?02:50
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jeremiahI don't know any tricks.02:50
yuizyi don't have one yet and i managed to get my big qt projecct work on the emulator02:50
jeremiahyuizy: If it works in the emulator (I assume you mean SDK) then it should work on the device.02:51
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markus__Do you know if theres any way to individually reroute to another server Jeremiah?02:52
yuizyok, great02:52
yuizyyeah i meant sdk02:52
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markus__brb restarting internet02:58
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JackBeSlowSo I currently have a 770, and am waiting impatiently for an n900, any way I can try out some of the libqbase or other cool things that are being done on my 770? It seems no one is backporting anymore.03:03
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lcukJackBeSlow, a few have tried backporting liqbase to 770, but never more than a cursory glance, it requires the Xv YUV overlay to work03:05
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JackBeSlowHa, love that I get a response from the dev.03:05
JackBeSlowWell bummer, guess I just have to wait.03:06
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lcukyeah unfortunately, someone whos even more bored than you will dig one day no doubt ;)03:07
* lcuk goes back to lurking03:08
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JackBeSlowI don't see many people still using 770s anymore.03:08
lcukgnite JackBeSlow :) hope its not too long03:08
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lcukthey still exists03:08
lcukand those that arent in the rat race with upgrading will still be using them03:09
JackBeSlow:) thanks03:09
chris231989anybody have luck getting kismet installed on 770 with os2008he?03:09
JackBeSlowchris231989, had it on 2007HE haven't tried it with 2008, heard there were way too many problems with it.03:11
chris231989i had it with 2007he installed on my flash card but it stopped booting off it a couple days after i got dual boot setup03:12
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JackBeSlowchris231989, how is 2008 working for you? I was thinkin about updating to play with some newer apps but I haven't read anything about the laundry list of problems with 2008he on the 770 being fixed.03:14
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chris2319892008 has been running great load more apps, love the athf startup logo. i did disable the meta-search deally as sugested in a forum somewhere.03:18
chris231989hasnt crashed yet and no random reboots :)03:19
JackBeSlowand audio? Dependency problems? General slowness?03:19
jeremiahN900 due to be released next week.03:19
chris231989i havnt had audio issues, no dependency issues yet. seems as quick or quicker than 2007he03:20
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JackBeSlowheh, well there goes my Sunday ;)03:22
JackBeSlowSeriously no audio issues? I couldn't get sound AT ALL when I first installed it.03:22
chris231989ya i was reading about that, figured i'd try it anyways. i did find a applet that controls sound and screen brightness that allows sound to be turned up louder than normal applet. i was jammin out no prob before i got that. i flashed it with the ltest version avil last week03:24
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v2px_does aircrack-ng work with the n900 wifi chip?03:27
zerojayFlandry: Are you there?03:28
chris231989i though aircrack-ng just munched on .dump files03:28
chris231989collected with some other app03:28
v2px_chris231989: hmm may be true. so does $OtherApp work then? :P03:29
JackBeSlowv2px_, From what I have been told it is the same issue as on 8x0s it "works" but no packet injection03:30
v2px_hm okay, thanks03:31
DocScrutinizerairodump == $OtherApp03:40
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DocScrutinizerand as aircrack really is a cpu-hog, it's probably not the brilliant idea to run it on a mobile device with rather limited cpu grunt and small power source capacity03:42
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ShadowJKwep is so weak.. probably omap3 and omap2 don't even break a sweat03:53
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JackBeSlowwep is only easy to break using packet injection, without that it can take a good while (30 minutes easy)03:55
ShadowJKeasy :)03:56
JackBeSlowIf you are just sniffing regular traffic, or worse light traffic it takes a while03:56
ShadowJKwhat annoys me most is when I have clear-wire access to everything03:56
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ShadowJKand can't use it03:57
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v2px_ShadowJK: you need a eth<->bluetooth thingy :D04:05
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johnxassociated press?05:17
infoboti guess ap is advanced placement, a way to get ahead on college, maybee, or gay05:18
DocScrutinizerI'd say usb<->ethernet, but wait... we got no hostmode :-(05:18
johnxwe will eventually I believe05:18
johnxunless something arose between october and now05:18
JackBeSlowjohnx, Really? From all that I have read it seems to be a hardware issue/usb OTG spec issue.05:19
DocScrutinizerwhat happened in October?05:19
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johnxDocScrutinizer, people were saying it was software and lack of certifications, but the hardware was hooked up05:20
DocScrutinizerexcept DST->winter time05:20
johnxJackBeSlow, the spec issue was that they couldn't call it "usb host" and ship it with a micro-A port unless the software was ready to pass spec05:20
JackBeSlowhmm ok05:21
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: seems I completely missed that. It's been me and another few who speculated the SoC-USB-interface should be able to do both sides of protocol05:21
johnxbut since they were intending to support host mode up until late in the game, I *think* it's likely that everything is hooked up and they just went with the usb- micro b socket instead05:21
JackBeSlowFrankly that sounds awesome, usb-host offers a whole new world of opportunities. Can you point me at anything that confirms that?05:21
DocScrutinizerbut we probably miss the usb power source05:22
johnxJackBeSlow, nope. because it's not confirmed05:22
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johnxDocScrutinizer, probably similar to the n8x0 in that it has 100mA hooked up for power05:22
DocScrutinizerthat's fair enough05:22
DocScrutinizerif it's true05:23
johnxJackBeSlow, I used to think so too, but after you attach all the stupid adapters, it's kind of just a pain05:23
johnxlook around for the pics of people with an n800 hooked into a powered hub hooked into one silly little thumbdrive05:24
JackBeSlowWell depends on how well/badly it is supported in the hardware, in the 770 yeah it was a huge pain, in the n8x0s it wasn't bad at all05:24
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JackBeSlowWait the n8x0's don't need external power I thought.05:24
JackBeSlowI thought that was only the 77005:24
johnxJackBeSlow, not if your usb device is happy with 100mA05:24
JackBeSlowah, ok05:24
johnxthat's most usb drives, some keyboards, few ethernet adapters05:25
DocScrutinizermost kbds05:25
JackBeSlowExactly, which is what I would want to hook up.05:25
johnxJackBeSlow, I haven't found it that useful except for my usb keyboard, but I guess some people love it05:25
johnxDocScrutinizer, depends on who you ask :)05:25
johnxit's hit and miss05:25
v2px_usb<->ethernet? nice.. how?05:25
johnxv2px_, on the n800, n810 or n900?05:26
DocScrutinizerthe ones with keycaps backlite will fail ;-D05:26
johnxDocScrutinizer, my caps lock light doesn't work, but the keyboard is happy :)05:26
JackBeSlowI think being able to load something off a flashdrive can be a real convenient feature. The keyboard is the main thing for me though, that and I would love to upload sketches to my non-bluetooth arduino from it.05:26
v2px_johnx: i'm looking forward to see it on the n90005:27
DocScrutinizeralso a second wlan stick to do packet injection might come in handy05:27
johnxv2px_, then wait until it's out. no one knows yet. even the people who have one don't know, since they aren't testing kernels since it's hard to flash back without the retail software images05:27
johnxDocScrutinizer, too power hungry for sure :) get out your powered hub and wall wart05:28
DocScrutinizerbah, switch down TX power to 10mW05:28
johnxJackBeSlow, flashdrive? yeah somewhat useful. keyboard? get a nice foldable bt one. arduino? yeah, that'd be neat :D05:28
johnxDocScrutinizer, can't do that until the device successfully negotiates for power05:29
johnxit's a usb spec thing05:29
johnxOTOH, you can see which ones work by watching to logs on a desktop linux machine05:29
DocScrutinizerwell, it's *us* to manage the enum05:29
johnxat some debug level (maybe default) it'll tell you how much power the usb device wanted, what configuration options it had05:29
JackBeSlowjohnx, which bt keyboard do you use? I want to get one but haven't started researching yet, I am pretty rough on keys as I am used to my Model M05:30
johnxJackBeSlow, I don't have one, but the stowaway foldables are nice (used someone else's)05:30
DocScrutinizerso who cares if the fsckng stick negotiates for 2000mA, as long as actual power consumption stays below what N900 can provide05:31
johnxI needed a usb keyboard for early boot debugging while getting debian/n800 going05:31
johnxDocScrutinizer, yeah, if you want to hack the drivers, disable the checking, and hope it doesn't blow a fuse trying to draw 500mA before you tell it to reduce power05:31
DocScrutinizerUSB has to be short resistent05:32
DocScrutinizerno blowfuse05:32
DocScrutinizermaybe an electronic one05:32
johnxwell, it's your device, so "use the source, luke" :)05:33
johnxas for me, I'll wait to see how it goes for you :>05:33
DocScrutinizerdoes anybody know which powermanagement chip N900 uses?05:34
yuizydoes anyone have an example of how to use libalarm?05:34
yuizyi can't get it to execute commands05:35
DocScrutinizererr, I mean... can anybody please tell me?05:35
johnxDocScrutinizer, might I be able to find out from the kernel?05:35
DocScrutinizerjohnx: as for powered hostmode, it's mandatory to disable USB-charging05:35
johnxwell, yeah05:36
DocScrutinizerjohnx: you might. Me not (yet)05:36
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johnxwhat I mean is, if I wanted to look for you on this n900, could i do it without taking the device apart? :P05:36
DocScrutinizerin kernel it's usually called regulators etc, but I guess that's closed Nokia blobs05:37
DocScrutinizeryou might find a few nice names in /sys maybe05:38
DocScrutinizertough usually only .../
DocScrutinizerjohnx: of course taking the device apart and uploading a few hires pics would be the optimum ;-D05:40
DocScrutinizerI asked for that maybe 2 weeks ago XD05:41
johnxyeah. my record for even having *laptops* work after they pass through my "operating table" is about 50/5005:41
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johnxand nokia wants this one back :)05:41
johnxcoolest thing ever: not knowing where my n900 is in the house and still being able to ssh to it :D05:41
DocScrutinizermake it playback some nasty techno ;-)05:42
yuizynvm, i managed to figure it out by myself (libalarm thing)05:42
johnxI need to get some tunneling happening to make it accessible over 3G05:42
johnxyuizy, was it documented somewhere? or just guess+test?05:42
JackBeSlowHmm, have flite installed? Have it call out to you :)05:42
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johnxit's not on my n90005:43
johnxI had a cool copy-buffer text2speech hack on the n800 though :)05:43
DocScrutinizerheh, you can ssh to it, you can install whatever you want05:44
JackBeSlowMight not be in the repos yet.05:44
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DocScrutinizerexcept new kernel maybe05:44
DocScrutinizerand of course new sshd is a bit tricky05:45
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johnxoh, I can *install* a new kernel, but I don't have a copy of the current one in a sane format05:45
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DocScrutinizeras is wifi drver05:45
JackBeSlowDocScrutinizer, No it isn't just install a second instance of it running on a different port :P05:45
johnxit's the old "walk the tightrope with no net" thing :)05:45
JackBeSlowDocScrutinizer, Hmm, yeah wifi would be a problem too05:46
johnxI've reinstalled ssh inside screen. and brought ifaces up and down too05:46
JackBeSlowUnless you could do the reverse of a normal tether over bluetooth...05:46
DocScrutinizera ice script called from cron can do miracles.05:46
DocScrutinizereven recover from a messed up sshd install05:47
DocScrutinizeranyway, a complete ls -lr /sys is quite appreciated05:49
DocScrutinizerthough I had to learn today hostmode switching in mer is via modprbe aiui :-S05:50
johnxwant dmesg too?05:51
DocScrutinizerI had a pastebin of dmesg iirc05:51
DocScrutinizerjohnx: thanks :-) content of /sys/bus/i2c/drivers: seems enough to google for next 30 min ;)05:56
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DocScrutinizerheh lis302l. Same gmeters as FR05:57
DocScrutinizer""The TWL4030 is the optimized all-in-one audio and power manager""06:00
johnxwell, there it is :)06:01
DocScrutinizer""The AD5820 is a single 10-bit DAC with 100 mA output current sink capability..."" o,O06:02
johnxhmm? what's O_o about that?06:03
johnx(use short words. I'm not an electronics guy. i just play one on TV)06:03
johnxalso, AFAIK, they were planning a micro-A port right up until they hit the USB certification brick wall06:03
DocScrutinizerthat sounds quite appropriate for a 100mA USB power source capable even of OTG SNP06:03
johnxsoooo, what happens if you try to pull 200mA through it for a couple seconds?06:04
DocScrutinizerthey should have used a micro-AB06:04
johnxthey couldn't06:04
DocScrutinizerI bet nothing bad06:04
johnxthe USB guys wouldn't give them the USB logo cert if they had an A port that didn't work out of the box06:05
johnxand they wanted to ship the device, then go back and do the software06:05
johnxjust like with the n80006:05
DocScrutinizerwhat a nonsense06:05
DocScrutinizerI really wouldn't care if thwre's a USB-cert sticker on it06:06
johnxto put this in perspective: you're also talking about hacking kernel drivers to override over-current protection06:06
johnxyou don't represent the "meat" of their target demo06:06
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infobotjohnx meant: you don't represent the "meat" of their target demographic06:07
DocScrutinizerreally, OC-prot shouldn't be a sw duty06:07
johnxI think the idea is multiple layers of protection06:08
DocScrutinizerand I don't see where and why to hack kernel drivers06:08
johnxwell, if your wifi usb stick only requires 100mA in whatever low-power mode it has (maybe monitor mode), but it always asks for 500mA, you could just hack out the overcurrent protection on the n900 side06:09
DocScrutinizeryep, ack06:09
johnxI thought that's what you were getting at earlier06:09
johnxI have a dir called "usb_host" under /sys/class06:10
johnxanyone explored that yet?06:10
DocScrutinizerbasically that's no protection, but simply a "I can't do that, so when you ask for it you're out of luck"06:10
DocScrutinizernot me ;-P06:11
johnxoh...I wonder if I should see what happens if I try and set it to host mode06:11
DocScrutinizer[2009-11-06 18:08:09] <markd_> question for the mer does one activate USB Host mode on an N810 running Mer? I've tried the old 'echo host > /sys.../mode' command, but it doesn't take. It did work when running Maemo. TIA.06:12
DocScrutinizer[2009-11-06 18:09:34] <Stskeeps> look in merlogs, search for g_file_storage06:12
DocScrutinizer[2009-11-06 18:17:46] <markd_> thx. modprobe g_file_storage did the trick06:12
DocScrutinizerthought it's faintly related06:13
johnxonly kinda06:14
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johnxyeah, I've found my way around usb on the n800, so if it works it shouldn't be too hard06:15
DocScrutinizerjohnx: so go pick p your N900, where ever you dropped it ;-D06:16
johnxI did06:16
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johnxalready have my weirdo usb female-A to female-A hooked up too06:16
DocScrutinizeryeeha, now you talk06:17
johnxnothing so far06:19
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johnxhas a usb-storage.ko ...06:24
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johnxeh, no luck AFAIK06:33
johnxback later06:33
DocScrutinizerheh, the ambient light sensor can probe visible and IR separately. And can create interrupts with a max resolution of 13.7ms06:52
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if that's fast enough to learn IR-remote codes06:53
johnxwhy not just use the IR sender/receiver?06:53
DocScrutinizerI only heard of IR-TX so far06:54
johnxweelll...let me check then :)06:54
johnxthe chip is TX/RX capable. would be silly if they didn't hook up both06:54
DocScrutinizerthough it would be really surprising to learn they didn't use a IrDA module06:55
DocScrutinizeryep :-D06:55
johnxwell, IRDA != IR TV remote though06:55
DocScrutinizernot exactly, they even do different wavelength06:55
johnxas in, not all IRDA devices can be controlled at a low enough level to do the tv-remote thing06:55
DocScrutinizerand a lot of IrDA operate not so good on the usual remote carrier like 34KHz, 38KHz etc06:56
DocScrutinizerjohnx: that's another problem, yes06:57
DocScrutinizerwhen the IrDA module has e.g. built-in UART or sth like that06:57
johnxthe Cxx00 zaurus had that "problem"06:58
DocScrutinizermost of them don't06:58
johnxthough someone said it could be worked around in software ... by banging on it with gpio? (don't quote me. years ago and outside my field...)06:59
DocScrutinizerPalmV worked quite god, but really poor power, so only 1..2m06:59
johnx(that was in reference to the zaurus, though, not the n900)06:59
DocScrutinizer(gpio) that's when you use a SoC-UART06:59
DocScrutinizerwhich I suppose is the most common setup07:01
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DocScrutinizeryet I hope they will improve the bl-driver in N900. In N810 it's abysmal laggy and coarse steps07:03
DocScrutinizeralmost like my light swotch on the wall ;-)07:04
johnxhave you played with advanced backlight?07:04
DocScrutinizerhmm, got a combined systray control for bl and volume (iirc)07:04
DocScrutinizernow things are even more messed up07:05
johnxmore messed up? in what way?07:05
johnxAFAIK, adv backlight is pretty well tested07:05
DocScrutinizerseems there are to "governours" for bl-brightness07:05
johnxas in "manual" and "light sensor"?07:06
DocScrutinizerand they can't negotiate who's boss07:06
DocScrutinizerkinda, yes07:06
johnxyeah. I remember that being a problem a long time ago, but I thought it was fixed07:07
DocScrutinizermight exactly be on the point, though I never investigated07:07
johnxbasically nokia's brightness controls are kinda ... "clingy" ... they just can't let go :)07:07
DocScrutinizeryep, that's what it "feels" like07:08
DocScrutinizeralso kbd-illum is kinda weird. Switches on and of randomly sometimes07:09
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, there's no API for controlling the light sensor. :\07:09
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, so we have to rip out Nokia's logic and replace it wholesale with our own.07:09
GeneralAntillesWhich hasn't happened07:09
GeneralAntillesSo it's recommended to go ahead and rip out Nokia's logic and just use ABL in manual.07:10
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, N900 is a bit better.07:10
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DocScrutinizergood to know07:10
GeneralAntillesBut there's still only 5 settings on the default applet07:10
GeneralAntillesand mostly it seems like two07:10
GeneralAntilles1-4 are "low" 5 is "high"07:10
GeneralAntillesWe'll probably replace it with our own programmable logic at some point.07:11
DocScrutinizersounds sensible07:12
johnxyeah, nokia's distro design has come a long way07:12
johnxthere were some real WTF moments looking at the maemo4 initscripts07:13
johnxsuch as USER='user' up at the top07:13
GeneralAntillesNot sure Maemo 5's lightsensor logic is going to be more sensible to replace.07:13
johnxaside: I can't believe there are 500 posts in the usb host thread and I'm the first one to try turning it on...07:14
GeneralAntillesjohnx, qole tried.07:15
johnxah. that's good at least07:15
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johnxI didn't feel like reading the whole thing, so I only skimmed 4 or 5 pages07:15
johnxI'd bet money we get it working within a week of retail launch07:16
johnxback later07:16
DocScrutinizerbring money ;-)07:16
johnxDocScrutinizer, I never said my own money ... :)07:18
DocScrutinizerwhen they switched from micro-AB to micro-B just to make sure there won't be any "unsupported" hostmode, I bet they saved the 60cent for the step-up converter to power it as well07:18
johnxDocScrutinizer, just like they didn't on the n800 and n810?07:18
johnxthe thing has an fm radio built in with no software support. I don't think they skimped 60c07:19
johnxespecially given how late in the design it was07:19
DocScrutinizerthe switch of a receptacle *impossibly* can be done late in design. You need new molds for the housing07:20
johnxhow different is micro-a and micro-b?07:21
DocScrutinizermaybe they accidentally used B instead of AB from beginning, and now *that's* their issue with USB-cert ;-P07:21
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johnxheh :P07:22
johnx(seriously though, it's on the maemo-dev list07:22
DocScrutinizer(how different) wikipedia is your friend07:24
johnxusb otg article doesn't have pics07:24
johnxwhich one are you looking at?07:24
DocScrutinizersearch for micro-ab07:24
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johnxfound it07:25
johnxdefinitely a different case mold...maybe they had both cases made up just in ... case?07:26
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DocScrutinizeroops offline07:33
DocScrutinizerthe whole story of a late switch of USB receptacle is a complete hoax IMHO07:33
DocScrutinizeror maybe a half hoax, if they really realized too late they should have used another receptacle07:34
DocScrutinizerbut anyway, if they intentionally designed the molds for a micro-B, then for sure they did the layout without support for USB-hostmode-power. Or they screwed it completely (what btw wasn't the first time I seen EE screwing up some design details :-P )07:41
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DocScrutinizer-8ok, let's give watchdog another chance to reboot N810 plus xchat07:47
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, they never had plans to use Micro-AB07:51
GeneralAntillesI'm certain of that.07:51
GeneralAntillesThey were planning to support host like they did with the N8x007:51
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DocScrutinizer-8I have to admit I have no idea what that receptacle here in front of my nose actually is. Is that a B type on N810?08:04
pwnguinUSB is stupid like that08:04
pwnguinnever heard of micro-ab though08:05
DocScrutinizer-8anyway I basically don't care, as long as it knows hostmode for prot and power08:05
DocScrutinizer-8logical (and pulldown R) protocol of datalines08:05
pwnguinoh, protocol08:06
pwnguini thought you were talking profiles or something08:06
pwnguinso what happens when you plug a n810 into another n810 via usb?08:07
luke-jrthe universe collapses.08:08
DocScrutinizer-8for any reasonable usecase you need a kind of adapter or cable anyway. So I really don't care too much what type of plug is on one end of that thingy08:08
luke-jrpwnguin: USB OTG cables have a host-end and client-end08:09
luke-jrerr, host/slave08:09
DocScrutinizer-8depends. if you switch one to hostmode, they probably got a chance to talk to each other08:09
DocScrutinizer-8luke-jr: yep08:09
pwnguinoh, you have to manually set hostmode?08:09
DocScrutinizer-8pwnguin: yep08:10
luke-jryou have to manually set hostmode if you aren't using an OTG cable08:10
luke-jrOTG cables automate it08:10
DocScrutinizer-8not sure about that on N81008:10
GeneralAntillespwnguin, AB is OTG.08:10
pwnguinproblem solved08:10
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DocScrutinizer-8usually host end has ID-pin short to GND08:10
DocScrutinizer-8though OTG can negotiate to reverse that08:11
DocScrutinizer-8what honestly nobody ever will need08:12
DocScrutinizer-8but adds significantly to the joys of OTG EE design08:12
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DocScrutinizer-8GeneralAntilles: AB *receptacle* is OTG. AFAIK ther's no such thing like a AB-plug08:14
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, yes, I know. :)08:14
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DocScrutinizer-8and as a device with AB-receptacle doesn't know it that's an A or B type plug it is hookedup to, they (=USB authorities) defined the A-plugs have to short ID-pin to GND so you can tell apart08:17
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DocScrutinizer-8if N810 has a B-type receptacle, it seems rather senseless to detect that short ID to switch to hostmode automatically, as there aren't any standard B-plugs with that short anyway08:21
GeneralAntillesPeople made them custom.08:21
DocScrutinizer-8hrhrr, same as I did for FR (by defining we should support that scheme)08:22
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DocScrutinizer-8interestingly enough newer(?) OTG supplement even defines certain R-values for detecting Y-cable for externally powered hostmode08:25
DocScrutinizer-8without that mode stationary usecases like fullsize kbd wouldn't be much fun, as device runs out of bat quite rapidly. Or you had to unplug all slaves to recharge master08:28
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pwnguinhow long does the device run for on a full charge then?08:29
DocScrutinizer-8less than without attached external kbd ;-)08:30
pwnguinkeyboards dont pull that much power08:30
pwnguinalthough i suppose they're not exactly power optimized08:31
DocScrutinizer-8not exactly08:31
DocScrutinizer-8some few 100mW for sure08:31
pwnguinbut if you try to use it as a desktop replacement, you wouldnt want to switch between power and use08:32
DocScrutinizer-8so with the converter loss a bat would last maybe 10h for kbd *only*08:32
pwnguinit makes me sad that my monitor is failing08:33
pwnguincuz its gonna be hard to replace it. it was expensive four years ago, and hasnt fallen in price =/08:33
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pwnguineverythings widescreen now, and too big to rotate for reading08:35
DocScrutinizer-8IMHO power/charge over USB was the most stupid invention. And china & EU adoping that as a mandatory feature for all phones made things really worse08:35
pwnguini dont think it's such a bad idea to have everything in one cable08:37
GeneralAntillesI'm not benefitting from it so far.08:38
GeneralAntillesPretty obnoxious.08:38
LupuI've used it to charge cameras off laptop batteries on the road.08:38
LupuQuite convenient, I'd say.08:39
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dmj7261Given the somewhat restricted storage on the device, usb host would be quite handy.08:39
DocScrutinizer-8now the dumbasses are requesting to power laptops with the same wallwart usb PSU as well08:40
dmj7261um...I'm not sure that they're going to like the charging times08:40
LupuOf course. There are always dumbasses for everything. :)08:40
LupuCan't blame USB for that, though.08:40
Macerin french08:42
Macerbios = bwa ?08:42
luke-jrBIOS is an acronym... and unlikely different in other languages.08:44
DocScrutinizer-8sorry, couldn't care less about those weird frenchmen and their habit to translate even names08:44
DocScrutinizer-8luke-jr: aaha, like SIDA, OTAN, and dunno what else08:45
Maceri thought like08:45
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Macerdubois was dubwa08:45
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DocScrutinizer-8a country that has laws to forbid radio broadcast to send less than 50% songs with french text IMHO has a severe problem08:47
LupuI was visiting France when the Simpsons movie came out. We couldn't find a single theatre that wouldn't have it dubbed.08:52
LupuLater, after returning to Finland, I went to watch it and was severely dissapointed, but that's another story.08:52
Maceri was just curious08:52
luke-jrLupu: the USA is the same :/08:52
Maceri know on ncis there is a girl named bobbi soemething08:52
Macershe played a dr on the show08:53
dmj7261I've seen subbed movies in the US08:53
Lupuluke-jr: You don't get the Simpsons in any other language than English? What a pity :D08:53
Maceri was wodndering wh oshe is08:53
luke-jrdmj7261: in theatres08:53
luke-jrLupu: Simpsons sucks. I meant good stuff.08:53
dmj7261oh...on tv it's all dubbed08:53
luke-jrwhich is often in Japanese.08:53
dmj7261well, all the stuff that wasn't english in the first place.08:54
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luke-jrexactly my point08:54
luke-jrI think the only movie in theatres that wasn't in English was The Passion.08:54
dmj7261You need the internet or dvd releases to get subs08:54
LupuYep, it's definitely a benefit for the Finnish people that TV only adds subs, only childrens' shows are dubbed.08:54
luke-jrmaybe LotR too?08:54
MacerScottie Thompson08:54
LupuThe same goes for cinemas also.08:54
Macermy bad08:54
luke-jrdmj7261: that's not in a theatre08:54
luke-jrI'm sure you can get DVDs and internet in English in France too08:55
dmj7261Pan's Labyrinth (El laberinto del fauno) was in spanish here.08:55
luke-jrLupu: the USA takes not-so-children's-shows and turns them into children's shows via dubbing...08:55
dmj7261Yeah, that happens with some animes.08:55
Macershe has sexy eyes08:56
dmj7261I'm not a huge anime watcher, I like a few though, like Time of Eve.08:57
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JaffaMorning all10:16
* SpeedEvil needs a coffee maker.10:18
SpeedEvilI can't face getting out of bed.10:19
* SpeedEvil ponders going back to sleep.10:19
* Xisdibik is just getting into bed TO sleep :)10:20
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infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power11:36
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RST38hAnyone can help me with a new-styled Maemo5 dialog?12:13
RST38hI am adding items to it, but it does not start scrolling :(12:13
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wazdheya all12:17
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RST38hhey awazd12:18
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hrw|oedemhi guys12:21
RST38hhrw: Have you by any chance done any maemo5 ui programming?12:21
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hrw|oedemRST38h: first I want to get device then will think about doing some stuff12:23
hrw|oedemRST38h: and it would rather be Qt12:24
* RST38h looks through Modest source code: it is funny how hard you have to try simulating C++ in C12:24
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JaffaRST38h: may not be the best example, either ;-)12:28
RST38hJaffa: Well, yes, we are talking serious wikipediness there, complicated by disregard for actual users of the application12:29
RST38hI need an example of creating a scrollable settings dialog though and Modest is the only source I could think about12:30
JaffaAh. when I tried puttin Hermes' preferences in a PannableArea the rendering got seriously FUBAR12:31
RST38hPannableArea do not seem to work inside dialogs12:31
RST38hI have not found what works yet12:31
qwerty12Worked for Transmission's dialogs, although I'm told I'm doing something wrong =)12:32
johnxqwerty12, they're just haters :)12:32
RST38hCan I see the code? =)12:32
JaffaRST38h: PannableArea works with a Treeview in a dialogu; but not with a vbox12:32
JaffaIs spodding from inside a church (abefore* the service) on an N900 blasphemy?12:33
johnxwhat the heck is spodding? I feel so un-hip right now ...12:34
qwerty12RST38h: I'm doing it the wrong way, but this should be correct (So I hear, anyway):  new pannable area, new vbox (and add your widgets there), use hildon_pannable_area_add_with_viewport to add the new vbox to the pannable area and use gtk_box_pack_start to add this new vbox to the dialog's vbox12:35
qwerty12No, use gtk_box_pack_start to add the pannable area to the dialog's vbox12:35
qwerty12johnx: I'm told by GTK itself =)12:35
qwerty12Should sort it out now, actually...12:35
johnxgtk is just jealous that you're always thinking about Qt :D12:36
RST38hqwerty: Wait, so the same vbox gets added to both pannable area AND the dialog???12:36
qwerty12RST38h: Read the next sentence12:36
qwerty12johnx: Dislike Qt... :-)12:37
qwerty12Anyway, until I try this for myself, I'm talking out of my ass here. Give me a sec12:37
johnxreally? it's the only thing I ever had any luck making a UI with (unless you count printf as a UI ...)12:37
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lbtnb the Qt finger scrollarea should work fine with buttons etc.  It's just a normal scrollable.12:39
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RST38hqwerty: Ok. So, I add pannable to dialog vbox. Then add my own vbox to pannable. Then add widgets to my own vbox?12:40
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qwerty12RST38h: This works (no errors outputted, yay!):
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DantonicN800houw do i edit a .conf file? how do I llaunch leafpad as root?13:38
johnxxDantonicN800, try a command line editor like vi or nano13:40
DantonicN800ew vi13:41
t_s_oor install rootsh13:41
VeggenDantonicN800: Anyone who says that, haven't understood a thing ;)13:41
t_s_othen do "rootsh leafpad file"13:41
johnxxalso, qwerty12, why did you disable the rootsh part of rootsh?13:41
DantonicN800like sudo?13:42
qwerty12johnxx: 'twas pointed out to me that it was, indeed, a security risk. But the versions with it disabled are in extras-devel13:42
johnxxecho exploit | root13:42
johnxxhow is that different?13:42
t_s_owho, and where?13:42
DantonicN800someone gave me a command once that forced to open a file as root. cant remember it13:43
qwerty12johnxx: You raise a good point there13:44
johnxxDantonicN800, and vi is awesome...just not with the n800 onscreen keyboard :)13:44
t_s_ohrmf, never mind my last example DantonicN800, i forgot that leafpad do not really like being launched via rootsh, it seems its missing some "lib" or daemon...13:44
qwerty12t_s_o: rootsh leafpad13:44
johnxxqwerty12, I think we should disable all root access. why doesn't Nokia protect us from this stuff? *ducks*13:44
DantonicN800thats it!!!13:44
t_s_oqwerty12: that may be, cant say i am familiar with that .sh13:44
LeoDi want a N900 noooooooow :(13:45
konttorijust 5 more days13:45
SpeedEvilLeoD: There are stores where you can get that hands-on experience.13:45
LeoDwell i'm in europe and it seems they haven't even announced a release day yet13:45
SpeedEvilLeoD: Just don't remove the hands while exiting at speed.13:45
DantonicN800yay leafpad works13:45
LeoDSpeedEvil: haha :D13:46
t_s_ough, searching the wiki for info on produced a whole lot of noise...13:46
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konttoriLeoD: W47 at earliest afaik, but could be later. I will be later than the states. But if you order through nokia web site, you should be able to get it no matter where you are (afaik)13:47
LeoDit costs 560 dollars in the US and 600 euros here in germany.. so unfair :(13:47
konttoriyou can get it for 519 from dell in the states,13:47
LeoDhm, i might try the web site..13:47
BluesLeeLeoD: about 500 euros from alternate13:48
LeoDBluesLee: nice! :D13:49
wazdrussian preorders opened13:49
LeoDi think amazon had it for 500 euros too previously, but the price is fluctuating a lot still13:49
kynkywas £250 a bit ago :)13:49
wazdonly about 1k euro :D13:49
BluesLeeLeoD: no, it was pending between 560 and 600 euros13:50
LeoDhow can it be so cheap on alternate?13:50
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kynky3x15% off + £50 cashback13:50
BluesLeeLeoD: i preordered mine for 560 euros from amazon, but i will not cancel it and preorder from somewhere else as i dont know if this will extend my waiting time;-)13:51
LeoDBluesLee: hehehe :>13:52
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* SpeedEvil ordered it at the stupid discount rate too. But I'm not 100% sure it'll happen13:52
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archebytehi all..14:05
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archebyteI am trying to find a way to use IRC on my N900.. can anyone help?14:06
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LeoDi've seen xchat ported to maemo, dunno if that works on the N900 though14:07
johnxxworks ok14:07
qwerty12_N900archebyte: apt-get install xchat=2.8.6-maemo10fremantle114:07
johnxxseems kinda crashy14:07
johnxxah, and of course it's crashy because I have the wrong version :)14:07
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qwerty12_N900johnxx: You have my version installed, go figure :)14:08
archebytetks @qwerty12_N900. I will check it out..14:09
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archebyteI see 2.8.6.maemo11 in the App. Manager.. installing..14:16
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archebyteis there any difference between using apt-get from the commnad-line and using the App. Manager for installilng a package?14:17
qwerty12_N9002.8.6.maemo11 is the crash-prone one...14:17
kalikianaarchebyte, it's essentially the same, the difference is that apt lists libraries as well14:19
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archebyteI was wondering if the App. Manager made less use of the rootfs or something..14:20
archebytetks @kalikiana14:21
GeneralAntillesarchebyte, the application manager caches to the eMMC by default.14:21
GeneralAntillesapt does not14:21
GeneralAntillesh-a-m's dependency/conflict resolution logic is also generally less aggressive.14:22
archebyteGeneralAntilles, how can I purge the cache using apt?14:22
kalikianain the sense that ham simply aborts the install in the case of a problem =)14:22
GeneralAntillesapt-get clean14:23
archebytecool. tks GeneralAntilles14:23
archebytejust installed 2.8.6-maemo10fremantle114:23
archebyteIf all goes well, I will be back from the N900 :)14:26
archebytetks all..14:26
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hrw|oedemargontus: base difference is that with apt-get you can install few packages at same time. with Appmanager you cannot14:27
hrw|oedemI mean archetype14:28
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archebytecool. happy to be on irc frm the 90014:33
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archebytethe UI needs a Fremantle makeover :)14:34
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* RST38h added Fremantle config dialog =)14:59
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hrw|oedemI want conference support in internal IM - on maemo4 it was enough to do irc15:04
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RST38hhrw: Actually, there are more important things15:13
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yuizythere was no example so that's why it took a long time to make a basic alarm thing15:13
RST38hhrw: I want get-information support, i.e. when I am contacted by a previously unknown person I would like to request the details15:13
RST38hhrw: Also, the icq plugin has got the usual icq problem: it does not show details for a lot of accounts, just UINs15:14
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* hrw|oedem -> food15:15
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zigo-_-_---Hell, 4 KB/s to get stuff from ... :/15:23
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lardmanhi Stskeeps15:35
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lardmanany news on the pvr?15:35
Stskeepsnot that i've heard15:35
Stskeepsannoys me a tad of course15:35
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lardmanah well15:37
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Stskeepsright now i'm working on GLES lib stubs15:37
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lardmanoh cool :)15:38
Stskeepsthough i'm not sure it's the best way15:38
Stskeepswe just need to have some way to build towards gles api so15:38
* lardman is currently trying to Fremantle-ise mbarcode15:39
Stskeepspondering weak symbols15:39
lardmanand at the same time adding in orientation stuff15:39
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derf"Orientation stuff"?15:42
lardmanwhen you turn the device around the app has to turn around too15:42
lardmannot the decoder :)15:42
derfAh, I see.15:42
kalikianaaccelerometer ;)15:42
lardmanderf: btw it should build ok for diablo atm, though I'm not sure about the debian stuff I just pushed15:43
lardmanI also rearranged the code15:43
lardmanto push the mbarcode stuff into trunk and move the test codes into a branch15:43
romaxagreasemonkey extension available now for N900
derfOkay. Alas, I have no time for testing today.15:43
lardmanI'll test again for Diablo in the week15:44
lardmananyone taken a stab at emerillon hildonisation?15:44
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konttoriromaxa: any recomended addons?15:45
konttori(for greasemonkey)15:45
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romaxakonttori: now idea, I was testing it on
kalikianaI wonder... if I have a new libwebkit and libsoup, can they still get into extras, even if I'm not maintaining the existing packages?15:47
romaxakonttori: s/now/no/.15:48
konttoriand the extension installation is smooth?15:49
romaxakonttori: click on install button, and it will ask to confirm script installation15:49
romaxasp3000: ping15:50
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konttoriso, now we need to check that do the youtube downloader scripts work15:51
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romaxakonttori: what is that? give me a link?15:52
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sarowerhow to use the front camera in SDK5, can anyone help?16:04
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* zaheerm wrote a youtube player in 20 mins for n90016:06
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zigo-_-_---7.2. Copy the sources.list entry given to you after the license acceptance to your Scratchbox x86 and armel target’s /etc/apt/sources.list file.16:07
zigo-_-_---Can someone give me the sources.list ???16:07
zigo-_-_---Seems I missed it ...16:07
Stskeepsno, accept the damn eula yourself16:07
zigo-_-_---How?16:07 i think16:07
zigo-_-_---Thank you.16:09
lardmanhmm, when's our next update coming out, and anyone know if it'll be a reflash or an OTA?16:09
Stskeepsno idea16:09
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lardmannp, was just idly wondering16:11
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Stskeepsok, so my current idea is to have libGLESv2 and libEGL that are mostly empty, and headers having all symbols as weak symbols16:11
Stskeepsthe idea is then that when real libGLESv2 and libEGL is there, it resolves the symbols correctly16:12
Stskeepsdoes this make sense? :P16:12
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lardmanwhy do you need to bother?16:15
lardmanassuming you know the api16:15
Stskeepslardman: well. the challenge is that we can't use SGX libraries in a build farm obviously. we still need to build our applications, which uses gles2 api, which is publically documented16:18
lardmanah I see16:18
Stskeepsand we can then drop in the real gles2 libraries through whatever method16:18
lardmanyep, I get you now16:18
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* RST38h yawns16:25
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RST38hqwerty, if you are there, thanks : your advice helped!16:26
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zigo-_-_---[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > start16:40
zigo-_-_---bash: command not found16:40
zigo-_-_---What the hell ...16:40
mikhaszigo-_-_---, installed the maemo-binaries?16:41
mikhaserr, nokia-*16:41
zigo-_-_---Do I need to install them twice?16:41
zigo-_-_---I mean, once for ARM, once for X86?16:41
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mikhasof course16:41
zigo-_-_---Ok, thanks.16:42
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mikhasboth targets are individual environments16:42
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mikhas(think: two computers, if you will)16:42
zigo-_-_---The doc on how to install doesn't even mention it ...16:42
mikhasto save time when you messed up it helps to make backups from /scratchbox/users/your_nick/targets16:43
mikhasthough you should make *very* sure scratchbox is unmounted (/etc/init.d/scratchbox stop) and that there are no running sb terminals, before doing that16:44
mikhas(if you have a good inet connection and dont mind the wait, you can ignore that part, of course)16:44
zigo-_-_---Well, I run on an NX server in the data center... :)16:45
zigo-_-_---Xen VPS...16:45
mikhassounds good =)16:45
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mikhasactually, I am not sure how much you *really* need for cross compiling16:45
mikhaswell, I jsut make sure I have roughly the same packages on both targets, saves thinking about it16:46
wazdAccording to "Objectified" if you haven't made a chair in your life - you're not a designer16:46
Stskeepstime to get started on that chair, wazd16:46
mikhasI made a chair in a school16:47
mikhasit was ugly16:47
mikhasbut now I can finally call myself designer, thanks16:47
wazdI've watched 32 minutes, 2 minutes of Johnnie Ive, 30 minutes of chairs :D16:47
* SpeedEvil has made a chair.16:47
wazdoh, ok, and 2 minutes of Braun designer, that introduced Ive16:48
SpeedEvilWell - I cut a block of wood to suit as a chair.16:48
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mikhashm, those count as chairs, too?16:50
wazdmikhas: sure16:51
mikhasI guess I am a great designer then, I made more than *one* chair!16:51
wazdmikhas: in fact you can look like a genius if you'll introduce something like this16:51
mikhashm =)16:51
SpeedEvilmikhas: I curved the top.16:51
SpeedEvilmikhas: If you get arts prizes for piles of styrofoam, then it counts.16:51
mikhasSpeedEvil, neat. my grandpa used to have his garden full of wooden self-made furniture16:52
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wazdoh, ok, 5 minutes of car design, back to chairs :D16:56
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mikhaschair design > car design. everyone with a porsche chair can confirm that16:58
RST38hporsche chair probably provides more value for the money16:58
wazdseriously, chairs again!17:03
mikhasyou still seem to underestimate the effort it takes to make chairs17:04
mikhasperhaps chairs is a primer in every designer book, or perhaps designers fail at anything more complex than a chair.17:06
* mikhas looks around and spots so much borken design that he feels the latter is true17:07
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wazdoh, UI design at last, no chairs here I hope17:08
wazdwell, "Objectified" is a movie bout different aspects of design17:10
wazdpretty interesting to watch but only 1 time I think17:10
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wazdI'm really surprised they haven't mentioned Sony's Jog Dial17:13
wazdcause it's a really life changing thing imo :) First appeared in VHS players now it's damn everywhere :)17:14
wazdeven iPod's clickwheel is jog dial's interpretation17:14
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RST38hToo bad it is not used wider17:23
RST38hProbably copyrighted though17:23
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zerojayThere was even a controller for PS1 that included a jog dial.17:26
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zerojayNamco's Jogcon:
mikhasI would like to see the thinkpad's mouse knob on every laptop. I cant stand touchpads.17:31
* greenfly is a trackpoint kinda guy17:32
greenflybtw, is it pronounced May-mo, May-ee-mo, or May-uh-mo ?17:33
SpeedEvilIt's pronounced cheesecake.17:36
greenflyahh, naming after desserts now ala android? :)17:36
bazemost people i heard from nokia on youtube pronounce it something like my-mo which always reminded me of a short version of  "my mobile" ;)17:37
* RST38h would like to see thinkpads gone, together with their knobs17:37
greenflyahhh see that makes sense17:37
greenflyaww, I love my thinkpad :) the x200s is nice17:37
* RST38h pronounces it as ma-ye-mo, because this is how it is written =)17:38
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wazd[Mei-mou] :)17:41
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greenfly^^ there's the definitive answer17:42
RST38hwell no surprises there17:44
* RST38h wonders if he shoul dbackport the settings dialog to the Diablo version of EMUlib17:45
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Stskeepsjeremiah: ping17:48
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wazdok, the main point of that movie is "Designers know what you need better than you"17:53
RST38hAt least they all think so17:54
wazdI'm not :)17:54
* qwerty12_N900 mutters something about an "UI Spec"17:55
wazdyou can't know anything bout the object if you don't use it everyday for 5 years17:55
Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: cdbs was your mortal enemy, right?17:56
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qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: "was"? :)17:56
Stskeepsfair enough17:57
qwerty12_N900Out of curiosity, how come you're asking?17:57
jeremiahStskeeps: pong17:58
Stskeepsjeremiah: how would you do multiple ./configure and build runs for variants of a package using CDBS?17:58
wazdqwerty12_N900: he killed him in a car accident I guess :D17:58
jeremiahor Yikes rather.17:58
Stskeeps's say i want libclutter-eglx-1.1, -2.0, libclutter-glx17:58
Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: ^17:59
qwerty12_N900wazd: Hehe, if only :D17:59
Stskeepswhich are made using different ./configure settings of backend17:59
jeremiahStskeeps: I am not so good at CDBS, only because I never use it. :)17:59
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: No idea, sorry; that was a situation where I would scrap the CDBS rules entirely17:59
jeremiahStskeeps: So would I. :(17:59
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Stskeepsfair enough18:00
jeremiahSorry I'm no help keepsie.18:00
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: Perhaps look at the dates-hildon package, from Ubuntu18:02
jeremiahWouldn't you just have a separate config script for each distro you are targeting?18:03
jeremiahAnd then it could be pretty straight forward.18:03
lardmananyone know which EContact field holds the location information?18:03
Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: hm, that seems simple18:03
* Stskeeps passes qwerty12_N900 a cooki18:04
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qwerty12_N900OM NOM NOM18:05
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tank-man"First iPhone Worm Discovered, Rickrolls Jailbroken Phones"18:10
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Stskeepsthe onion or real? :P18:11
tank-mansaw the headline on slashdot.org18:11
lardmanargh, where is VCARD_FIELD_USERNAME coming from?18:12
lardmanah, I see18:12
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lardmananyone here used osso_abook_contact_get_value()?18:15
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lardmanstrange that it appears to only return a char *18:15
lardmanwhen some values presumably, could be something else18:15
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yuizywhere can i change the xterm color theme?18:21
greenflyshould be in the main settings dropdown along with the font. etc.18:22
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Stskeepsjeremiah: cool that you're in over m.g.o :)18:33
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Jaffacool, not been paying attn18:36
jeremiahcool, that things are . . .  cool18:36
jeremiahI need to spend more time at m.g.o18:37
jeremiahBut I will try to do that18:37
jeremiahRight now trying to figure out why nokia mangles perl so badly.18:38
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jeremiahWhy do they have perl-base only on the device?18:38
Stskeepsbusybox and perl takes space18:38
jeremiahAnd then add perl and perl-modules in the sdk18:38
jeremiahStskeeps: Ah18:38
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Stskeepsso it's like a minimal perl on device and full(.. yeah, right) in sdk for compilation18:39
jeremiahSo I guess if I want to update perl, which I do, I may have/want to optify?18:39
jeremiahStskeeps: Good description.18:39
Stskeepsit's that embedded curse i keep on talking about18:39
jeremiahI am going to put that on my perl wiki page in maemoland.18:40
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pupnik_n900 battery life and power usage logged with running apps, shared to server to profile realworld use profiles...18:51
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b-man17kami: hello18:57
Flyser_pupnik_: huh? Where can I find this data?19:00
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_|Nix|_X-Fade: Do you know how come I can't promote my package from extras-devel to extras-testing? It's called double-acute-0.0.1 ... I was able to promote another package no problem, but when I try to click on version 0.0.1 of this package in the extras-devel armel repo, I get an error.19:19
Corsachmmh, a local store has an add for n900 at 229€-150€ = 79€19:20
Corsacthough we don't know yet how long is the contract19:20
Corsacand nothing on the website yet19:21
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dmj726n900 for 79 euro?19:23
dmj726are you sure it's not a nokla?19:23
w00tprobably with a very nasty contract if it's that much19:23
w00t(or just a long one)19:23
Corsacusually 24 months around here19:28
Corsacthey can't do more anyway19:28
Corsacwhat's puzzles me is the simlock stuff for the first 6 months19:28
Corsacmeaning no custom kernel19:28
Corsacbut at 79€ vs. 560€, there's not much to balance19:28
Corsac(oh, that and azerty keyboard :/ )19:29
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dmj726I don't really mind the locks on a dumbphone19:39
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StskeepsCorsac: i doubt there's simlock on n90019:41
dmj726that said, I don't really see much of a connection between smartphones and dumbphones other than the fact that they both make phone calls.19:41
Corsacdmj726: and smartphone usually are dumb at making phone calls19:41
CorsacStskeeps: in the fremantle security talks, they talk about that (not being able to boot unsigned kernel with a simlocked phone)19:42
CorsacStskeeps: so if the n900 can't be simlocked, that would mean no fremantle for n90019:42
CorsacI guess19:42
StskeepsCorsac: -harmattan-19:42
dmj726I don't worry about how much control I have over the software in an electric typewriter either.19:42
Corsacuh oh19:42
* dmj726 does not and never has owned an electric typewriter.19:43
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* RST38h feels that some people will be *very* happy with the upcoming versions of his emulators =)19:48
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qwerty12_N900You're including the ROMs with them?! :p19:49
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Corsachmh, the 150€ coupon seems to require an ovi account19:51
RST38hqwerty: No, but the button assignments and the accelerometer adjustment are there19:53
qwerty12_N900Ah, nice19:54
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ShadowJKwhat is this about harmattan and simlock anyway20:02
CorsacShadowJK: did you see the security talk about harmattan?20:02
Corsac has the slides20:03
Corsac slide 520:03
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ShadowJKflash sure managed to lock up the device for 10 minutes just to show a picture quarterf the size of the screen..20:23
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konttoriCorsac: what about the security in harmattan?20:29
* konttori knows a bit20:29
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sp3000romaxa: pong20:31
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RST38hkonttori: can I make a little request?20:31
konttori(by the way, I disc20:31
RST38hkonttori: Will it be possible to add support for the second text to HildonCheckButton?20:32
suihkulokkiall the expats in helsinki, note that the helsinki metro will not go the railwaystation-ruoholahti link for the next few days at least20:32
konttori(by the way, I disagree with sim locking meaning to demand signing - it should not)20:32
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Corsackonttori: we were wondering about simlocking20:32
konttoriby second text, what do you mean?20:32
Corsackonttori: though I may have more specific questions about the security architecture (which I've put on the wiki page and talk thread)20:32
konttoriCorsac: I definitely think that the author of that slideset has misunderstood something20:32
courmischwhy would only expats care?20:32
RST38hkonttori: HildonButton lets you specify the label and the value (written in small letters under the label)20:33
Corsacbut basically we are waiting for Elena to publish some more info20:33
RST38hkonttori: HildonCheckButton does not let you specify the second string20:33
Corsackonttori: hmhm but isn't she the security architect of harmattan?20:33
RST38hkonttori: The last explanation from Nokia is here:
konttoriCorsac: yes, but that doesn't mean she could not have misunderstood something or oversimplified something20:34
suihkulokkicourmisch: well, finns tend to look more into finnish news so they probably already know20:34
RST38hkonttori: you can easily see that the guy either isn't making much sense *or* he is considering very narrow usage for HildonCheckButton20:34
konttoriRST38h: that does make sense. Please send an email with that link to me and if possible file an enhancement bug to bugzilla.20:34
Corsackonttori: if you have some time and are able to answer some questions about maemo security abilities, it'd be nice :)20:34
courmischgood I live in south-east Espoo20:34
Moo___is there a community process to report issues or enhancements on hildon software (i.e. n900)?20:35
konttoriCorsac: I can try, but I am 100% working in fremantle, so I am not completely updated on all harmattan goings20:36
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StskeepsMoo___: hildon lib? most stuff is in bugs.maemo.org20:37
lbtCorsac: what questions?20:38
courmischsuihkulokki: fair enough20:38
Moo___Stskeeps: ok... looking there20:38
lbtkonttori: as far as simlock/signing goes - what is the problem there?20:38
RST38hkonttori: Acknowledged.20:41
Moo___hmmm.. another question. does ecoach have any other feedback channel besides the developer's personal email?20:42
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Corsackonttori: well, I'm interested in the trusted base and its availability for the end user20:42
StskeepsMoo___: check if it's in b.m.o :P20:43
Corsackonttori: I mean, can I use it with my own set of kernel/policy etc.20:43
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Corsac(so for example a business can roll its own set of kernels with the feature it needs, use trusted base in arm tree to protect the integrity of the system, and then protect data (files, contacts, calendars, mails etc.)20:44
Corsacand vpn keys, stuff like that20:44
lbtCorsac: AFAIK the actual 'trusted base' can't be used by community.... but that's a tiny subset20:44
lbtall that stuff should be doable20:45
Corsacwell, the point would be to be able to really trust it, or there is no point :)20:45
lbtyou don't need tpm to do that20:45
lbtand the description of the acl controls sounded like they'd assist20:46
Corsacwell, it sure help20:46
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lbtCorsac: would it?20:46
Corsacthere's no way you can be sure of files integrity without help from the hardware :/20:47
lbtfor the NSA... maybe20:47
Corsacthat's the point20:47
Corsacthat's what I'm interested in :)20:47
lbtthey could pay Nokia to sign a kernel20:47
lbtand I'm sure you could do that20:48
Corsachmhm, but what would be the reason to forbid random user to use it?20:48
Corsac(the tpm I mean)20:49
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lbtmy understanding is that there is a key held in the HW. That key can only be accessed at boot time by the bootloader20:49
lbtthere's only (AFAIK) 1 key20:49
lbtif you have it you can break the DRM... the whole point of this is to manage that key20:50
crashanddie_that's where my company comes in :)20:50
povbotBug 6086: Provide secondary text option for HildonCheckButton20:50
lbtI have no idea if there could be more keys (ARM question) and if Nokia would allow access20:51
lbtcrashanddie_: ...20:51
Corsacwell, I don't really know about Arm Tree, but on x86 world one is supposed to be able to take ownership of its TPM device20:51
crashanddie_lbt, I did a presentation about Maemo last week to pitch it to my execs20:51
lbtcrashanddie_: shareable?20:51
Corsacthe fact that only nokia owns the only key for my device scares me a little20:51
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crashanddie_lbt & Corsac: there may be an interesting solution, I have to talk to Elena first and see how Nokia welcomes the idea, but as soon as I have the green light I'll share20:52
CorsacI don't care about not being able to access DRM stuff (that's ok by me, I don't like drm but I would respect them)20:52
RST38hCorsac: As far as I know, none of the security infrastructure is implemented yet20:52
crashanddie_and I've been in Open Source longer than I have in this company, trust me when I say I do want to share20:52
CorsacRST38h: ok20:52
RST38hCorsac: So things may change more than once20:52
Corsaccrashanddie_: I'd definitely be interested20:52
CorsacI really think there's a need for a trustable smartphone20:52
lbtcrashanddie_: what's known about the ARM tpm stuff?20:52
lbtCorsac: one of my first thoughts is to put dmcrypt on it20:53
Corsactrustable for people with sensitive data20:53
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Stskeepscrashanddie_: i'd welcome passport on n90020:53
Corsaclike, would president Obama be authorized to use a n900 instead of a crappy blackberry :)20:54
crashanddie_Stskeeps, you bore me, I told you not to tell anyone20:54
crashanddie_Corsac, unlikely20:54
Stskeepsthen i would only have to wear my n90020:54
CorsacStskeeps: with no clothes?20:54
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crashanddie_what's the last thing you read?20:57
crashanddie_**that came through20:57
lbtCorsac: unlikely20:57
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crashanddie_[18:54] <crashanddie_> guys, I don't think you realise that at this point, the N900 has no market for business people20:57
crashanddie_[18:55] <crashanddie_> no decent Exchange integration, email is still slow as hell (over imap)... The only thing that's usable is the contacts20:57
crashanddie_and that's without taking into account any kind of security20:57
RST38hIsn't exchange working?20:58
Corsaccrashanddie_: mpf20:58
Corsaccrashanddie_: will email see some love? :)20:58
lbtof course!20:58
Corsacor will we have to wait for the e900?20:58
crashanddie_RST38h, exchange only works for contacts and calendar, and fails miserably for email20:58
crashanddie_RST38h, doesn't even tell you why, nor does it clearly say it failed20:59
RST38hAre you sure it doesn't just fail for you?20:59
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povbotBug 5335: Mail for Exchange Wizard doesn't show errors correctly21:00
kamathlnhi.. is python installed by default on maemo5?21:00
* RST38h facepalms21:00
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crashanddie_Corsac, lbt what do you guys for a living?21:02
lbtI thought povbot had that...21:03
* lbt used to be solutions architect @ BT21:03
crashanddie_ah, right21:03
lbthuge interest in this area21:04
lbt(Now contracting around Nokia/Maemo FWIW)21:04
Corsaccrashanddie_: works in IT security21:04
GeneralAntillesbug #533521:04
povbotBug Mail for Exchange Wizard doesn't show errors correctly21:04
crashanddie_Corsac, way to be vague ;)21:05
GeneralAntilleslbt, same syntax as Bugzilla uses. ;)21:05
crashanddie_bug #5335 #5337 #533921:05
lbtGA... way too verbose ;)21:05
crashanddie_bug #3553, bug #123421:05
povbotBug Weekly Summary report21:05
* lbt tries....21:05
povbotBug close-buttons on home menu are too small21:05
Corsaccrashanddie_: hmh, yeah21:05
pupnik_Flyser_: do you think it could be done without security concerns?21:05
lbtBug #533521:05
kamathlnhi.. is python installed by default on maemo5?21:06
Flyser_pupnik_: huh? what are you talking about?21:06
crashanddie_kamathln, no21:06
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, o/21:06
pupnik_the power use reporting daemon idea21:06
kamathlncrashanddie_: so there is no point in pursuing pymaemo for anything other than a hobby?21:06
GeneralAntillesWhat's the word, crashanddie_?21:06
Flyser_pupnik_: well ... I see no reason why this should be a security conceirn.21:07
crashanddie_kamathln, why would that be?21:07
crashanddie_kamathln, Firefox isn't installed by default on Windows, should that prevent you from developing for it?21:08
kamathlncrashanddie_: the users of phones like n900 would not be bent on installing a programming language by themselves21:08
kamathlnfirefox is a totally different question ..21:08
lbtkamathln: we have a thing called Depends:21:09
pupnik_bug #533521:09
kamathlnits something the end user would want on their pc/phone . so they might install21:09
kamathlnlbt: Oh cool!21:09
crashanddie_kamathln, you can make python a dependency of your app, and it will install automagically21:09
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, fucking jetlagged, that's the word21:10
kamathlncrashanddie_: Oh! thats quite unthinkable on a phone :-P so my ramblings .. Sorry guys, keep up the good work21:10
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, went to bed at midnight, woke up around 4pm21:10
lbtkamathln: ???21:10
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crashanddie_kamathln, it's not a phone21:10
crashanddie_kamathln, it's a mobile computer, which happens to also be able to place calls21:10
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kamathlncrashanddie_: Yeah.. yeah.. convince the public ;-)21:11
crashanddie_kamathln, you are the public21:11
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kamathlnbut I am in the minority .. who can understand21:11
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, fun.21:11
crashanddie_no, you're in an arrogant subset of the minority who thinks they understand21:12
GeneralAntillesJust going East/West coast knocks me out.21:12
Flyser_pupnik_: you were talking about right?21:12
povbotBug 5594: Indicate charge level while charging21:12
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, i hear ya21:12
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GeneralAntillesSomebody should fudge with the LED indicator to get it to change hue based on charge level.21:12
GeneralAntillesBetween red and green.21:12
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, do you know of anyone here who lives in california?21:13
kamathlncrashanddie_: lol .. well, I'll leave it up to you.. Now that I am happy that python+gtk or python+qt will work on maemo, I am seriously considering developing pygtk or pyqt apps21:13
kamathlnthats all i wanted.21:13
crashanddie_kamathln, take care21:13
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, a few.21:13
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crashanddie_kamathln, I'm actually looking forward to PyQt as well (or Pyside)21:13
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GeneralAntillesThough I'm rather unable to name people offhand at the moment.21:13
pupnik_no not the same bug Flyser_21:13
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, I missed VDVsx by a few days, he was in MV as well, but I couldn't clear up my agenda and get a cold one21:13
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, you just wanted some more runes of power from the Scroll of the Junta.21:14
GeneralAntillesDon't lie.21:14
crashanddie_actually, funny you should bring that up21:15
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crashanddie_The Nokia office is like 2 miles from the set where they shot Face/Off21:16
crashanddie_I could've taken VDVsx's identity and TAKE OVER THE MAEMO COMMUNITY21:16
GeneralAntillesYou probably already have.21:17
GeneralAntillesYou're just telling us this to make us think you didn't.21:17
VDVsxnah, I'm still alive ;)21:17
crashanddie_you're way too good for me21:17
GeneralAntillesSock puppet!21:17
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, how did you get this smart and when did you get so good at breaking conspiracies?21:18
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, I learned from the best in the business.21:18
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, did you train yourself by watching every single 24 episode in reverse?21:18 users.21:18
* timeless heads to SFO21:18
GeneralAntillesand sideways.21:18
crashanddie_timeless, you were in SF?21:18
GeneralAntillesAlso while listening to Darkside of the Moon.21:18
timelessbay area21:18
crashanddie_timeless, you plonker! I was there too!21:18
timelessmostly santa clara21:18
timelessi told people21:19
crashanddie_not me you didn't21:19
timelessi told the whole channel!21:19
crashanddie_timeless, did you ever do anything with the cards and readers we told ya?21:19
crashanddie_timeless, been there for two weeks21:19
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crashanddie_btw, the first question I was asked when entering the US, I lied21:25
crashanddie_the plane from heathrow to dallas didn't have any english immigration cards anymore21:25
crashanddie_only japanese21:25
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crashanddie_I had picked one up at the airport, hence, in English, but I had to take down some chick's phone number, so I couldn't really use it anymore21:26
crashanddie_I asked for one in japanese, and used the initial one as a translation, and filled in the whole thing21:26
crashanddie_gave it to the immigration officer, and his first question was "Oh, so you speak japanese fluently?"21:26
crashanddie_"I certainly do"21:26
timelessi pulled it out on moday while talking about plugins @google21:27
timelesswe're still adding pkki to our platform21:27
timelesssorry @sfo21:27
crashanddie_no sweat21:28
timelesshoppimh off airtram21:28
crashanddie_that airtrain is a joke21:29
crashanddie_it's a bus21:29
timelessbtw, the notifcation i get each time i log into w721:29
crashanddie_which notification?21:29
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timelessthat the reader isnt inserted is annoying21:29
crashanddie_timeless, you can deactivate that21:30
crashanddie_timeless, just go into activclient and it's one of the options21:3