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| moo__ | I tried to build quassel for N900 | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| moo__ | there is no QSystemTray (or whatever it was called) class | 00:09 |
| moo__ | should I get rid of it completely or is there some "corresponding functionality" for Fremantle? | 00:09 |
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| johnxx | moo__, you want to put an icon in the "status area" ? | 00:10 |
| moo__ | if it does not pose too much problem | 00:10 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Nix made a Notification Area plugin for the status menu that brings that functionality back | 00:12 |
| johnxx | moo__, I think there's something in the development guide about writing status area plugins (or whatever they're called) | 00:12 |
| johnxx | nm, listen to qwerty12_N810 instead :) | 00:13 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: what, where? :P | 00:14 |
| moo__ | qwerty12_N810: Is it direct drop-in replacement for Qt's systray? | 00:14 |
| qwerty12_N810 | moo__: nm, I'm talking out of my ass. I didn't realise you were talking about the actual build process | 00:14 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/h/hildon-systray/ | 00:14 |
| Stskeeps | ta | 00:15 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +/source/ in that URL would help, I guess | 00:15 |
| gilles_ | hello | 00:15 |
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| gilles_ | i'm a happy owner of a n800 | 00:15 |
| gilles_ | and now i've installed mer | 00:16 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: _|Nix|_ may prefer it, instead =) | 00:17 |
| gilles_ | but i don't see many apps | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: just made my life a lot easier :P | 00:18 |
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| gilles_ | where can i find repositories compatible with mer ? | 00:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: I'm actually regretting removing Transmission's tray icon option... | 00:19 |
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| pupnik_ | gilles_: compile what you like | 00:22 |
| johnxx | gilles_, lots of ubuntu packages are somewhat workable. you can install with apt-get | 00:24 |
| johnxx | but, not a lot of maemo packages are there quite yet | 00:24 |
| gilles_ | explain me why i see only a dozen of availables apps | 00:25 |
| gilles_ | why there is no mplayer, transmission, pidgin ... | 00:26 |
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| johnxx | gilles_, because we haven't moved them over to mer yet. we're working on the foundation, not putting in the highest level stuff quite yet | 00:27 |
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| gilles_ | ok so whats apps are available ? | 00:28 |
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| lbt | gilles_: if you'd like to see : https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3AExtras%3ADevel | 00:34 |
| gilles_ | it seems application manager dont show much | 00:34 |
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| gilles_ | i've found kde for mer | 00:34 |
| lbt | nope, that's 'cos no-one is helping test and move them to the app mgr | 00:34 |
| lbt | kde for mer? | 00:35 |
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| lbt | you can apt-get install anything from ubuntu... that doesn't mean it's a good idea ;) | 00:35 |
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| gilles_ | copy and paste dont work very well | 00:41 |
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| gilles_ | i cant open your link | 00:42 |
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| gilles_ | can you send me a list of working mer repos ? | 00:43 |
| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, you'll enjoy this: http://www.ted.com/talks/pattie_maes_demos_the_sixth_sense.html | 00:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie_, yeah, saw that. | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Very interesting. | 00:45 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, then this one: http://www.ted.com/talks/david_pogue_says_simplicity_sells.html | 00:47 |
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| jeremiah | Pogue | 00:53 |
| jeremiah | Hes and Apple fanboi | 00:53 |
| jeremiah | he is an Apple fanboi | 00:53 |
| jeremiah | is what I meant to say | 00:53 |
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| johnxx | gilles_, the working mer repos are the ones shipped with mer for right now | 00:58 |
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| gilles_ | how to add testing and unstable repos ? | 00:59 |
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| johnxx | gilles_, not on mer right now, but I think if you make a copy of the "stable" sources .list and change the "Stable" in the URL to "Devel" you might see some testing stuff | 01:01 |
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| dreamer_ | should nokia-binaries and nokia-apps install cleaninly on the X86 target? | 01:18 |
| jeremiah | yep | 01:19 |
| jeremiah | dreamer_: You mean from the repos? | 01:19 |
| jeremiah | Or are you building from scratch? | 01:19 |
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| jeremiah | And did you agree to the EULA? | 01:20 |
| dreamer_ | from the repos, I forgot to type fakeroot before my apt-get install | 01:21 |
| jeremiah | ah | 01:21 |
| dreamer_ | and apt-get remove nokia-binaries only removes the meta package | 01:21 |
| dreamer_ | is there a way to fix that or do I need to reinstall? | 01:21 |
| jeremiah | apt-get update | 01:21 |
| jeremiah | should be enough | 01:21 |
| jeremiah | Are you setting up the SDK? | 01:22 |
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| dreamer_ | but that doesn't remove the packages that were incorrectly installed from not specifying fakeroot | 01:22 |
| jeremiah | dreamer_: true, but there should be none of those. | 01:22 |
| jeremiah | As you were not root | 01:22 |
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| dreamer_ | they were still marked as installed even without fakeroot | 01:24 |
| dreamer_ | I've ran into that issue a few times | 01:25 |
| jeremiah | have you run apt-get -f install? | 01:25 |
| jeremiah | Try that, then see what messages you get. | 01:25 |
| dreamer_ | btw, when should fake root be used? | 01:25 |
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| dreamer_ | I already wiped it and am reinstalling it | 01:26 |
| mikhas | dreamer_, you could always start over with a new target | 01:26 |
| johnxx | dreamer_, when you run an application that thinks it needs to be root | 01:26 |
| dreamer_ | they both install to the same path though, fakeroot doesn't target a different path? | 01:26 |
| jeremiah | dreamer_: well, fakeroot generally gest called with dpkg-buildpackage. | 01:26 |
| jeremiah | when you want to be root on the device it is better to do sudo gainroot | 01:27 |
| jeremiah | fakeroot is just a library wrapper. | 01:28 |
| dreamer_ | thanks | 01:29 |
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| johnxx | dreamer_, ah. it's related to 'root' in the sense of 'uid 0' not in the sense of a new / (or chroot) | 01:29 |
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| dreamer_ | johnxx: thanks, that clarified it :) | 01:30 |
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| dreamer_ | I've used it in debian before, but didn't fully understand it | 01:31 |
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| Macer | hm | 02:05 |
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| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nbto31olpE nice looking universal charger for phone/cam li-ion batteries - universal, designed in austria | 02:09 |
| pupnik | i meant uni-power source | 02:10 |
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| zaheerm-lp | just tried to upload something to autobuilder btu can't even see it in build queue | 02:27 |
| zaheerm-lp | is the autobuilder working? | 02:28 |
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| zaheerm-lp | aah it built already :) | 02:29 |
| dreamer_ | i'm trying to get a python app running that requires pygame, I already installed python-pygame, but if I start a python console and type import pygame It can't be found, anyone know if i've gota tweak how its called to be found? | 02:30 |
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| zaheerm-lp | dreamer_, in sbox or on device? | 02:33 |
| dreamer_ | sbox | 02:34 |
| zaheerm-lp | use python2.5 | 02:35 |
| zaheerm-lp | not python | 02:35 |
| zaheerm-lp | when running the app | 02:35 |
| zaheerm-lp | time for me to sleep... | 02:35 |
| dreamer_ | thanks | 02:35 |
| dreamer_ | are there 2 versions in sbox? | 02:35 |
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| zaheerm-lp | yes | 02:35 |
| zaheerm-lp | night | 02:36 |
| dreamer_ | enjoy ;) | 02:36 |
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| jeremiah | Mamona? | 02:41 |
| jeremiah | WTF? | 02:41 |
| jeremiah | Do we need a Mamona? | 02:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, hum? | 02:45 |
| jeremiah | Well, there is this Maemo clone, called Mamona at Gitorious | 02:46 |
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| jeremiah | http://gitorious.org/mamona | 02:46 |
| jeremiah | I don't understand why | 02:46 |
| jeremiah | I mean, maemo.org is open and we have mer. | 02:46 |
| jeremiah | So why did they fork? | 02:46 |
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| lcuk3 | jeremiah, mamona existed before mer. | 02:47 |
| Robot101 | jeremiah: Mamona is old, maybe even older than Mer... | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | WAAAY before Mer. | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Years older than Mer. | 02:47 |
| lcuk3 | the question is why did mer not use it :P | 02:47 |
| jeremiah | lcuk3: Ah, okay | 02:47 |
| jeremiah | I had no idea. | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because it diverges WAY away from Maemo. | 02:47 |
| jeremiah | heh | 02:47 |
| lcuk3 | hi Robot101 \o | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | They kind of went off into left field. | 02:47 |
| Robot101 | lcuk3: ahoy | 02:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mer aims to stick as close to Maemo as is sane. | 02:48 |
| jeremiah | And never came back. | 02:48 |
| lcuk3 | you saw my post rob? | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mamona is mostly dead in the water, it seems. | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | E17 sucks, too. ;) | 02:48 |
| jeremiah | lcuk3: I saw your post and stop calling me rob. | 02:48 |
| jeremiah | E17? | 02:48 |
| lcuk3 | lol jeremiah :P | 02:48 |
| jeremiah | Another fork? | 02:48 |
| jeremiah | :) | 02:48 |
| lcuk3 | mmm gen, last i heard it wasnt entirely dead | 02:49 |
| lcuk3 | there are still projects using it | 02:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's mostly dead. | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, Enlightenment. | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nobody really uses it. | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Very few people contribute to it. | 02:50 |
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| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Ah, okay. | 02:50 |
| Robot101 | lcuk3: I tend to avoid work mail on weekends, but yes, I saw a couple mails from you :) | 02:50 |
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| Robot101 | lcuk3: will get the ball rolling in the morning | 02:50 |
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| * lcuk3 nods was expecting 9am :) | 02:51 | |
| lcuk3 | i actually meant http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=368636#post368636 tho :) | 02:51 |
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| Robot101 | lcuk3: ohhh, cool :) | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~flashing | 02:52 |
| infobot | flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 02:52 |
| * Robot101 doesn't get on well with web forums so doesn't follow tmo in detail | 02:52 | |
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| lcuk3 | lol GeneralAntilles doesnt either, but hes addicted to tmo ;) | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm on checking Community/General/Maemo 6 once in the morning. | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing much interesting there. | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I seem to have broken the compulsion to load every new thread. | 02:53 |
| Robot101 | should get an NNTP gateway | 02:53 |
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| Robot101 | then I'd do better | 02:54 |
| lcuk3 | the greeters will do that for you :) | 02:54 |
| lcuk3 | yeah | 02:54 |
| lcuk3 | anyway, im offski ill speak to you in a few hours rob \o gnite | 02:54 |
| Robot101 | 'night | 02:54 |
| * ShadowJK wants a nntp gateway | 02:54 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Talk sucks. | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's full of trolls and idiots. | 02:55 |
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| Macer | the can opener was invented 48 yeasr after the can | 03:01 |
| Macer | haha | 03:01 |
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| v2px_ | . | 03:09 |
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| johnxx | hey GeneralAntilles. did you ever get your beagleboard to behave? | 03:24 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: you mean in irc you are used to them? :) | 03:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnxx, haven't touched it in a while. | 03:26 |
| johnxx | is it the revC or a revB? | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnxx, uboot and such were behaving | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | B5 | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | but I didn't have a useful rootfs at the time. | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, here they're less numerous. ;) | 03:26 |
| johnxx | ah, bummer. that's 128MB RAM isn't it? | 03:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, and here I can bring the banhammer if I really need to. ;) | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnxx, yes. | 03:27 |
| johnxx | though anyways, I figured you might get a kick out of this: I was thinking about sticking beagleboard into the base of an imac g4 along with enough laptop batteries to keep it running unplugged for a while | 03:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnxx, I considered doing that with one of my Samsungs for a while. | 03:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Problem is the framebuffer limit. :\ | 03:29 |
| johnxx | framebufer limit? ah, in 3D mode? | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, DVI transceiver limit, I should say. | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1280x720 being incredibly optimistic and all that. | 03:29 |
| johnxx | I was thinking 15" imac | 03:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 03:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | That'd be slick. | 03:30 |
| johnxx | omap3 seems optimized to hit 800x480, so I figure even 1024x768 is pushing it | 03:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | How're you gonna hook up the LCD, though? | 03:30 |
| pupnik | id like a broken NEXTslab | 03:30 |
| johnxx | LVDS off the revC or get a new panel and run dvi-d up the neck | 03:31 |
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| johnxx | it'd make a fantastic kitchen computer | 03:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish somebody would stick one of those ultra high DPI laptop panels into a standalone case. | 03:32 |
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| johnxx | shouldn't be hard to physically put it *in* there, | 03:33 |
| johnxx | but lvds -> dvi isn't quite as trivial | 03:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 03:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | The one conclusion I've come to watching Touch Booker/Beagle Board/SmartQ/whatever-cool-hardware-that-doesn't-have-decent-software is that it's really nice having vendor support. | 03:35 |
| johnxx | ahahahaha | 03:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Or Mer, eventually. ;) | 03:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've discovered that I'm not really the type of person who wants to spend a whole lot of time screwing around with bootloaders. | 03:36 |
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| johnxx | ahahaha...Mer wouldn't be nearly as far along without nokia and ubuntu | 03:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I wonder why Always Innovating and Smart Devices are still screwing around trying to shoehorn full distros into their hardware. | 03:38 |
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| johnxx | every piece of our code that's not upstream worries me | 03:38 |
| johnxx | I thought debian would be an ok desktop too, circa ~1.5 years ago | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | They need to stop wasting their time and money on one-off shit and back up Mer. | 03:39 |
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| johnxx | well, I feel that way of course too :) | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | With a relatively modest amount of effort they could actually have something slick. | 03:40 |
| johnxx | AFAIK, mer is (one of) the first mobile distros to have learned the lessons of the "from scratch linux" guys | 03:40 |
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| johnxx | 1) pick an upstream that mostly works 2) be compatible with it | 03:41 |
| johnxx | ah, and 3) Know when to stop optimizing for space/memory savings | 03:44 |
| * GeneralAntilles likes to hear people justifying Android's architecture with that argument. | 03:46 | |
| johnxx | space/memory savings? | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm envisioning some pretty fun things this time next year. | 03:46 |
| johnxx | lot of good it did them | 03:46 |
| johnxx | it's more hungry than maemo5 | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Having to fit it on a "phone" | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'course, Nokia managed to ship a real Linux stack on less than half the hardware in 2005. . . . | 03:47 |
| johnxx | yup, and one of the biggest memory hogs of maemo4 seems to be hildon-desktop | 03:47 |
| johnxx | I honestly don't think maemo5 h-d is much (any?) heavier than maemo4 h-d | 03:48 |
| johnxx | (in terms of memory footprint) | 03:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why would it be? | 03:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arguably it's got fewer applets to handle by default. . . . | 03:48 |
| johnxx | well, for starters it's actually doing more stuff | 03:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right, architecture changes. | 03:48 |
| johnxx | it's managing windows too (the wm lib is actually in its memory space) | 03:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't wait to see it on N8x0. | 03:50 |
| johnxx | without 3D accell it's pretty slow :) | 03:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why is it that everything Maemo-related is always delayed. . . . | 03:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Oh, yeah, we'll have these out to you in a couple weeks" | 03:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | But if we're looking at OS2008HE levels of performance once it's accelerated. . . . | 03:51 |
| johnxx | eh, people get busy, people get interrupted with higher priority tasks | 03:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | People need to provide more realistic delivery dates. | 03:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Or more nebulous ones. . . . | 03:51 |
| johnxx | GeneralAntilles, the latter :) | 03:52 |
| johnxx | you've worked iT, right? | 03:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Indeed | 03:52 |
| * GeneralAntilles wants to see Mer surpass Android in number of Engadget articles. | 03:54 | |
| johnxx | we don't need more articles yet I think | 03:54 |
| johnxx | we need a lower barrier to entry for people to submit a 2-line patch | 03:54 |
| johnxx | anyways, the IT thing: ever said "I can do that in 3 hours" then got interrupted by a T1 outage, a last minute project and a broken printer? | 03:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does having to help process the Harry Potter delivery count? ;) | 03:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Even so, a quick status update would be nice. | 03:59 |
| johnxx | yeah, but I totally understand their position | 03:59 |
| johnxx | anyways, it won't be really blocking us for a while | 03:59 |
| johnxx | and I'm hopeful about the qtablet derivative as well | 03:59 |
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| lopz | hi ;) | 04:30 |
| johnxx | allo | 04:31 |
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| timeless | sp3000: ping | 04:34 |
| timeless | wanta hear s soething +urprising@ | 04:34 |
| timeless | at&t in dc still doesn't let me call us numbers | 04:35 |
| * timeless wonders how many years it takes to fix a service ticket | 04:35 | |
| timeless | @iad | 04:35 |
| timeless | boarding flight to fra | 04:35 |
| johnxx | s/years/decades/ | 04:36 |
| johnxx | actually, to predict how long something like that would take, you'd have to find a service ticket that was actually fixed | 04:38 |
| timeless | ... | 04:38 |
| timeless | i've raised it for three occasions | 04:38 |
| timeless | surely someone can fix something | 04:39 |
| timeless | i'm @iad for roughly 1hr this time | 04:39 |
| timeless | sufficient to verify "still broken" | 04:39 |
| timeless | and sufficient to call elisa+company service desk | 04:39 |
| johnxx | iad = dulles? | 04:39 |
| timeless | anyone hear have useful contacts w/ at&t | 04:40 |
| timeless | johnx: . | 04:40 |
| johnxx | even *apple* has trouble getting at&t to do what they want in a timely matter | 04:41 |
| johnxx | for us mere mortals, I don't see any hope | 04:42 |
| dmj726 | Fortunately At&t customers can get all their problems fixed via the Jobs distortion field. | 04:43 |
| timeless | heh | 04:43 |
| timeless | fwiw tmobile here is cool | 04:43 |
| timeless | i get @a 3g network | 04:43 |
| timeless | too bad i can't use it for internet access | 04:44 |
| timeless | can someone please remind me why 3g is a good thing? | 04:44 |
| timeless | (i'm using 2.5g on at&t) | 04:44 |
| dmj726 | 3g is faster I think? | 04:44 |
| timeless | i can trade: either internet or call people in the us | 04:44 |
| timeless | dmj: for what? voice? | 04:45 |
| johnxx | faster/better/stronger | 04:45 |
| dmj726 | faster for data...not sure if there's a voice difference. | 04:45 |
| timeless | again, i can't use internet on tmobile (the 3g network) | 04:45 |
| johnxx | I can | 04:45 |
| timeless | we're boarded | 04:45 |
| johnxx | and I can get calls while downloading | 04:45 |
| timeless | they're about to | 04:46 |
| timeless | johnx: my subscription has serious quirks | 04:46 |
| timeless | remember, i'm roaming | 04:46 |
| timeless | and steaming | 04:46 |
| johnxx | ah :) | 04:46 |
| timeless | 3 visits to the est coast in a year | 04:46 |
| johnxx | I'm on their $10 dumbphone data plan :D | 04:46 |
| johnxx | I actually need to buy a pre-paid card and see what I can use it for :) | 04:48 |
| timeless | we're leaving | 04:52 |
| timeless | see people from FRA | 04:52 |
| timeless | bye | 04:52 |
| johnxx | 'later | 04:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 3 hops | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's brutal. | 05:05 |
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| mmlj4 | does nokia use maemo (or whatever) on their phones? which models? | 06:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | N900 | 06:27 |
| dmj726 | n900 video editor gui mockup: http://imagebin.org/71044 | 06:32 |
| pupnik | cooäl | 06:36 |
| Macer | http://greenbydesign.com/2009/01/24/hybrid-hype-part-1-environment-savior-or-just-snob-appeal/ | 06:37 |
| Macer | neet | 06:37 |
| johnxx | it's all about the tesla roadster | 06:37 |
| Macer | heh | 06:39 |
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| dmj726 | I'd like feedback on the gui mockup, especially from the other video editing folks. | 06:40 |
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| dmj726 | (Yes, the deck of cards is filling the place of an actual n900) | 06:42 |
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| pupnik | dunno vid editing | 06:58 |
| pupnik | reduce mode switching in common workflow tasks- | 06:58 |
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| wazd | good time to sue some ass | 07:38 |
| luke-jr | sue Nokia? :) | 07:38 |
| wazd | nope, my army dep | 07:40 |
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| Macer | lol | 07:52 |
| Macer | merlin is pretty good | 07:52 |
| Macer | it's like a harry potter that doesn't suck and isn't nearly as gay | 07:52 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 08:06 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 08:06 |
| pupnik | hi RST38h | 08:09 |
| pupnik | how you | 08:09 |
| pupnik | dealextreme has n900 batteries for 4 bucks | 08:10 |
| pupnik | not sure if that would be a good thing to buy ;) | 08:10 |
| dmj726 | link? | 08:10 |
| RST38h | pupnik: alive | 08:10 |
| RST38h | Real N900 batteries or something made in China and marked as such? | 08:11 |
| pupnik | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.22691 | 08:11 |
| pupnik | china | 08:11 |
| pupnik | i wouldn't put one in a loaner | 08:11 |
| pupnik | just thought it was funny | 08:11 |
| * RST38h wouldn't put one in anything, scary | 08:12 | |
| dmj726 | how much are the real ones? | 08:12 |
| RST38h | ~$15 | 08:12 |
| dmj726 | $15 for a genuine one isn't bad. | 08:12 |
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| RST38h | this is the lower bound, the upper one is $40 | 08:12 |
| dmj726 | oh | 08:13 |
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| RST38h | http://www.google.com/products?q=BL-5J&aq=f | 08:13 |
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| RST38h | "Agreed about the limited resources...all the more reason to let a JIT compiler from a "scripted" language handle your memory management for you and eliminate the risk of resource-sucking memory leaks and other similar issues" | 08:19 |
| RST38h | Join date: Sep2009 | 08:19 |
| * RST38h snickers | 08:19 | |
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| pupnik | Customer relationships are on a lot of companies' balance sheets today... | 08:20 |
| RST38h | poor Indians are getting the pink slip then? | 08:21 |
| pupnik | it's crazy new accounting rules | 08:21 |
| pupnik | if i were still in finance, i'd have blown a few gaskets | 08:21 |
| RST38h | Oh, you mean for the banks... | 08:22 |
| pupnik | actually these are new mark-to-market accounting standards, apply to more than just banks | 08:22 |
| pupnik | also you no longer may have the asset on the books at the price you buy it, on the day you bought it | 08:23 |
| pupnik | sorry oftop | 08:23 |
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| RST38h | well, less vapor | 08:26 |
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| RedPenguin | I was doing an update using apt-get update and it ended up removing busybox and now the N810 just reboots over and over, and same when I try the USB Windows Flash method. | 08:43 |
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| Macer | RedPenguin: that is odd. reflashing it should return it to factory condition | 08:47 |
| RedPenguin | well that's what's strange | 08:48 |
| RedPenguin | I try and go to reflash it | 08:48 |
| RedPenguin | Do what it says, but Nokia shows up with the USB icon | 08:48 |
| RedPenguin | Then it just restarts over and over | 08:48 |
| RedPenguin | tried it again USB icon disappeared in like 2 seconds | 08:49 |
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| RedPenguin | Looks like I am saved by the Linux way of flashing | 09:02 |
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| RedPenguin | Wow, I am so glad that I had a Linux machine near by because the Windows way was not even close to working. | 09:03 |
| dmj726 | Linux keeps saving my computers too. | 09:04 |
| RedPenguin | I know exactly what you mean, I can't tell you how many Windows computers I had to save people's data using a LiveCD | 09:05 |
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| dmj726 | Yeah, people are usually genuinely surprised you can do that. | 09:13 |
| Stskeeps | many people's thesises and family pics were saved that way :P | 09:15 |
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| ensi | most people dont understand the value of backup untill its too late | 09:20 |
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| RedPenguin | I know what you all mean | 09:28 |
| RedPenguin | I'd had people think I was hacking the computer when using Linux | 09:29 |
| RedPenguin | lol | 09:29 |
| RedPenguin | I mean hacking someone else not hacking the computer | 09:29 |
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| Lupu | Well, at least you weren't suspended from school for using a command line. | 09:31 |
| dmj726 | what? | 09:31 |
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| RedPenguin | wow, your school must have been tough, teachers just yelled at me | 09:32 |
| dmj726 | shouldn't people be encouraged to use the terminal? | 09:32 |
| RedPenguin | I once used Telnet on Windows for talking on IRC | 09:32 |
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| RedPenguin | And two girls said "Wow you must be really smart" and looked at me like I was God | 09:32 |
| RedPenguin | Well I guess unless they use Terminal to destroy the system | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | or they were being sarcastic.. | 09:33 |
| dmj726 | just don't give them superuser access | 09:33 |
| RedPenguin | I know probably being sarcastic but either way it was kinda weird | 09:33 |
| Lupu | My example wasn't from personal experience, but allegedly someone in the US was suspended from school for using the command line | 09:35 |
| Lupu | He had it in fullscreen mode, the teacher reported it as suspicious behavior and finally he was suspended. | 09:35 |
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| RedPenguin | Oh I see | 09:35 |
| RedPenguin | I think probably it was Administration that Suspended him, because IT probably might had said he did no hacking | 09:36 |
| RedPenguin | I mean I think it probably went only to Admin and never was looked at by IT | 09:36 |
| dmj726 | Yeah, suspended for "being suspicious" I guess. | 09:37 |
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| dmj726 | I once got told to stop playing games while programing a little app. | 09:37 |
| Lupu | I'm trying to find the original article... | 09:37 |
| dmj726 | ...in a "computer class" | 09:37 |
| dmj726 | I was done with my work and never even left the app we were supposed to be "learning" (M$ Word) | 09:38 |
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| RedPenguin | I always like how in the media, they say Teachers/Admin catch students not hacking, but never seem to know what's going on when a student really is | 09:41 |
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| RedPenguin | I remember a few stories where it was like the school said "We had no clue said student was hacking" | 09:42 |
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| dmj726 | Probably because they have no clue what hacking looks like? | 09:42 |
| RedPenguin | yep | 09:42 |
| Lupu | Hm, I can't find it... I must have been dreaming, since Google's all-seeing-eye isn't taking me back(although it was some time ago) | 09:42 |
| dmj726 | ...give you a hint...full screen terminal ain't it. | 09:42 |
| Lupu | hehe | 09:42 |
| dmj726 | why would somebody want a full screen terminal anyway? | 09:43 |
| dmj726 | unless they're running without an xserver of course. | 09:43 |
| RedPenguin | Anyone's schools actually used Linux? | 09:44 |
| RedPenguin | Every school in my area seemed to be 100% Windows period. | 09:44 |
| dmj726 | My university does. | 09:44 |
| RedPenguin | Well excluding one being Novell Netware just on the server | 09:44 |
| RedPenguin | not that Netware runs on a client machines anyway | 09:45 |
| dmj726 | ...my high school used mainly linux servers, though Linux was spread pretty freely on student's laptops. | 09:45 |
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| dmj726 | On the other hand, my freshman year high school used all Windows with a Novell filter. | 09:46 |
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| dmj726 | I've grown to like Novell somewhat more since the time when my only experience with them was with school censorware. | 09:46 |
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| dmj726 | My sophomore through senior year high school didn't do any internet filtering at all. | 09:47 |
| Lupu | My university had one Linux computer near the main entrance, only for quick access to the schedules(of classes, whatever you call those) | 09:48 |
| RedPenguin | My local community college is going to drop Novell class and everybody besides me seems to hate it | 09:48 |
| dmj726 | We have several Red Hat labs. | 09:48 |
| Lupu | The problem was, it was maintained by a wannabe-IT-guru, an egocentric person with very little knowledge of the things she was teaching about. As long as no-one asked questions, she seemed credible. | 09:48 |
| dmj726 | We're actually required to use the linux computers in some classes. | 09:49 |
| RedPenguin | The community college had one Linux class that was nothing but basics, no good stuff at all | 09:49 |
| Lupu | The computer was running an ancient variant of RedHat, and got the blame for any network problems | 09:49 |
| Lupu | It was quite hilarious really, as it was the first Linux experience for many people, I overheard one complaining "Yeah, that's how LINUX works!!" when he couldn't check his schedule for the day(network problems). | 09:50 |
| RedPenguin | It was literally, "The cp command does this & the mv command does this" and some explaination of the file system | 09:50 |
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| Lupu | The whole network was down for hours that morning. | 09:50 |
| dmj726 | One of my classes required writing bits into the linux kernel | 09:50 |
| dmj726 | seriously? Just bash commands? | 09:51 |
| RedPenguin | That and some explainations of how the file system works and how the kernel versions work like 2.6 vs 2.4 | 09:51 |
| dmj726 | I wouldn't touch 2.4 with a 10 foot pole. | 09:52 |
| dmj726 | The family's Sony television set excepted. | 09:52 |
| RedPenguin | What made me laugh was every class the instructor asked if anyone used or uses Linux, I was always the only one who spoke up | 09:52 |
| dmj726 | *every* class? | 09:52 |
| dmj726 | sounds like she wasn't very persuasive. | 09:53 |
| RedPenguin | I meant every class that the instructor asked, like in Operating Systems and Linux | 09:53 |
| RedPenguin | She didn't ask in Novell, because not too many people use Novell Netware at home I don't think | 09:53 |
| dmj726 | ah, different classes, not like three times a week | 09:54 |
| RedPenguin | no, glad I explained that | 09:54 |
| dmj726 | I'm rarely the only one. | 09:54 |
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| RedPenguin | Two of my friends like Linux, but they constantly want my help when they break it | 09:55 |
| RedPenguin | Then I fix it for them, then they break it again or reinstall the OS without telling me | 09:55 |
| RedPenguin | I then ask, Why on Earth did you have me do all that work then? | 09:55 |
| dmj726 | I get that for both Windows and Linux. | 09:56 |
| dmj726 | Not so much the Hackintosh users though. | 09:56 |
| dmj726 | Mac users can be tricky though. | 09:56 |
| dmj726 | ...since my Mac experience is limited and most Mac users don't know what they're doing. | 09:57 |
| RedPenguin | For me that's Windows users, because I have to see their computer because they never probably describe the problem to me | 09:57 |
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| RedPenguin | properly describe not probably describe | 09:58 |
| dmj726 | WIndows is such a virus magnet | 09:58 |
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| RedPenguin | My uncle got a virus, I removed it, two days later he got the EXACT same virus | 09:58 |
| dmj726 | the only ways I've found to get a Linux virus were such that you deserved to get infected if you did. | 09:59 |
| Suurorca | same porn site? ;p | 09:59 |
| dmj726 | Like using pseudocode to write the virus and then compiling and running your program | 09:59 |
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| RedPenguin | Suurorca, sad to say, but I believe so | 10:00 |
| dmj726 | I got to solve a virus problem on Christmas | 10:00 |
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| Suurorca | :( | 10:00 |
| dmj726 | first thing after being woken up too. | 10:00 |
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| dmj726 | took an hour | 10:01 |
| RedPenguin | Hopefully you didn't have to VNC in to the computer when the person was using Dial-up | 10:01 |
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| dmj726 | no dialup | 10:01 |
| dmj726 | thank god | 10:02 |
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| RedPenguin | My cousin uses Dialup, likes to download file-sharing MP3s, and can't understand why they take so long to download | 10:03 |
| RedPenguin | Even though I told her at least 12 times | 10:04 |
| dmj726 | http://xkcd.com/627/ should be given to everyone that asks for computer help | 10:04 |
| dmj726 | umm...get broadband and the problem will magically disappear? | 10:05 |
| Suurorca | that fails because they lack the heuristics to find menu items that "look useful" | 10:05 |
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| RedPenguin | dmj726, I told that to her, but she complains she can't get cable due to a back bill, and is taking forever for DSL due to not getting a credit/debit card activated that they want | 10:06 |
| RedPenguin | Guess she doesn't see things clearly or something | 10:07 |
| dmj726 | Don't worry, she won't have to worry about slow download speeds after ACTA gets approved. | 10:08 |
| dmj726 | ...more do to a complete lack of internet than anything else. | 10:08 |
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| RedPenguin | Reminds me of my one college instructor who taught Computer Forensics but didn't know where to change the IP address inside Windows | 10:16 |
| dmj726 | That's awful | 10:16 |
| dmj726 | Even the student's at my high school knew that. | 10:16 |
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| dmj726 | How can you do computer forensics without knowing how an ip address can be changed. | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | morning andre__ | 10:18 |
| andre__ | morning! | 10:18 |
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| RedPenguin | I just love how my one High School computer teacher quit then for like 1-1 1/2 months, we had a substitute that had no clue at all about computers. | 10:18 |
| RedPenguin | Seems like a dangerous thing when the every student knows more than the teacher | 10:19 |
| sulx | it was fun to do pransk to teatcher with hickjack apps =) | 10:19 |
| dmj726 | Freshman year, I had one who was clueless about flash drives. | 10:19 |
| dmj726 | *clueless* | 10:20 |
| RedPenguin | I put VNC on my English teachers computer with the help of my computer teacher and after that, she said to me her computer was haunted | 10:20 |
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| dmj726 | haunted? | 10:20 |
| dmj726 | as in possessed by ghosts? | 10:20 |
| RedPenguin | She said because the mouse was moving by itself and typing was occuring by it self. | 10:20 |
| dmj726 | umm...Occam's Razor fail? | 10:21 |
| dmj726 | Of course I've seen people who are absolutely astonished that their *desktop* can have more than one window open at a time. | 10:22 |
| dmj726 | Windows XP != iphone | 10:22 |
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| RedPenguin | I still know people who don't understand that Wikipedia != 100% Guaranteed Fact Information | 10:23 |
| dmj726 | heh | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | morning wazd! | 10:24 |
| RedPenguin | Many of them peer college students | 10:24 |
| dmj726 | You mean wikipedia isn't solely written by experts whose only motivation is to create a database of fact checked reliable information? | 10:25 |
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| RedPenguin | I guess not | 10:25 |
| dmj726 | of course the mainstream media isn't exactly perfect when it comes to fact checking either. | 10:25 |
| RedPenguin | Neither is the Internet it self, but people tend to believe everyone they find on it | 10:26 |
| wazd | heya all | 10:26 |
| RedPenguin | hey | 10:26 |
| wazd | these jerks gave me papers | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | cool! | 10:26 |
| RedPenguin | everything they find on it, not everyone | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | and you didn't have to lube up to get them? | 10:26 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: nothing cool in fact cause I won't make it to Barcelona now anyway :( | 10:26 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah.. next time | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | at least you can go abroad | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | morning tekojo! | 10:27 |
| tekojo | Morning Stskeeps | 10:27 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: which opens a lot of possibilities for someone like you :P | 10:29 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: hah :D | 10:30 |
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| sarower | Hello all, Good morning! | 10:31 |
| johnx | wazd, you're a free man? | 10:31 |
| sarower | I have an application for N900 and when i close the application it gives the following error: | 10:31 |
| mgedmin | gaah, application startup screenshots | 10:32 |
| sarower | Crash: Signal 6 (SIGABORT) | 10:32 |
| mgedmin | tried to pan the settings, got a desktop widget menu instead | 10:32 |
| mgedmin | s/menu/edit mode/ | 10:32 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: tried to pan the settings, got a desktop widget edit mode instead | 10:32 |
| sarower | I am using D-bus! | 10:32 |
| sarower | there | 10:32 |
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| mgedmin | sarower, looks like an assertion failure to me | 10:33 |
| mgedmin | did you try running the app from an xterm, see if it prints anything? | 10:34 |
| sarower | mgedmin: But during closing the application | 10:34 |
| mgedmin | so? | 10:34 |
| sarower | I got it | 10:35 |
| sarower | I run the application from an applet | 10:35 |
| sarower | mgedmin: never run from xterm! | 10:35 |
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| mgedmin | just wanted to try to help; if you don't wanna debug, don't debug | 10:39 |
| * mgedmin 's n900 refuses to find any wireless networks now :/ | 10:39 | |
| johnx | mgedmin, mine refuses to join cell networks until I reboot sometimes | 10:39 |
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| mgedmin | ifconfig wlan0 down; ifconfig wlan0 up -> all is fine again | 10:40 |
| johnx | anything fun in dmesg? | 10:40 |
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| mgedmin | total silence until I did the ifconfig down thing | 10:41 |
| mgedmin | and then firmware booted etc. | 10:41 |
| mgedmin | I had it configured for ad-hoc wifi manually before | 10:41 |
| mgedmin | so I'm not blaming the os | 10:41 |
| johnx | ah | 10:42 |
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| mgedmin | now it's supposedly online but I can't even ping it :/ | 10:43 |
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| wazd | johnx: kinda :) | 10:45 |
| wazd | johnx: now I need red crowbar :D | 10:45 |
| johnx | wazd, if you ever find a gravity gun, just remember who your friends are :P | 10:46 |
| dmj726 | how about the dark-gravity-portal gun? | 10:47 |
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| mgedmin | wireless networking was invented to decrease quality of life | 10:53 |
| mgedmin | still, it's fun to learn when somebody arrives at the office because mdns-scan discovers their laptop | 10:53 |
| johnx | yeah. wifi is kind of a nightmare except when you're the only one within 300 feet operating an AP | 10:55 |
| johnx | and even then it's still a bad dream | 10:55 |
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| RST38h | 300ft~= 100m | 10:58 |
| RST38h | it is not that bad | 10:58 |
| mgedmin | the images app is misnamed | 10:59 |
| mgedmin | it should be called the denial of service app | 10:59 |
| RST38h | Hey N900 is not guilty that you have a faulty AP =) | 11:00 |
| mgedmin | actually, it is | 11:01 |
| mgedmin | because (a) my laptop is having no problems, and (b) the n900 is having no prob... | 11:01 |
| mgedmin | oh! | 11:01 |
| mgedmin | avahi is down since I rebooted | 11:01 |
| mgedmin | *that's* why I can't ssh in | 11:01 |
| * mgedmin hates black hatred | 11:01 | |
| mgedmin | let me just share a screenshot of the bug via ovi.com, that'll settle me down | 11:02 |
| mgedmin | </sarcasm> | 11:02 |
| mgedmin | battery already down to 66% since this morning, *sigh* | 11:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, not bad, if you live in the middle of nowhere... | 11:05 |
| * mgedmin files bug 6096, but he can't reproduce it now | 11:05 | |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6096 xterm: invisible app menu | 11:05 |
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| ian_r1 | just ordered my discounted N900 from the forum nokia store :D | 11:08 |
| zaheerm | if anyone has the time and has an n900, please test the app i wrote yesterday: zoutube it is in extras-devel and in app manager it is in the Internet and networking section | 11:09 |
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| cbx33 | Is there a root cert missing on the n810? | 11:21 |
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| cbx33 | why does imap.gmail.com now have an invalid certificate | 11:21 |
| johnx | are you from the future? | 11:22 |
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| cbx33 | no I'm not | 11:22 |
| cbx33 | nor from the past | 11:22 |
| Jaffa | cbx33: It often does. | 11:22 |
| cbx33 | :) | 11:22 |
| cbx33 | Jaffa, and you guys just accept it? | 11:22 |
| Myrtti | I get invalid certificate with my mail client in ubuntu often | 11:23 |
| Myrtti | it's not limited only to maemo platform | 11:23 |
| mgedmin | I used to get invalid cert warnings on obviously serious sites when I didn't have the date set correctly | 11:24 |
| cbx33 | mgedmin: yeh I had that on my phone | 11:24 |
| mgedmin | certificate from the future is automatically invalid | 11:24 |
| cbx33 | but my nokia is set correctly | 11:25 |
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| Macer | lol | 11:25 |
| Macer | Similarly, Douglas Clegg's Mordred, Bastard Son portrays the character as not only sympathetic but heroic (he and Lancelot save Guinevere from a murderous plot), and in a new twist, he is Lancelot's lover. | 11:25 |
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| Jaffa | cbx33: I think it's Google at fault. | 11:37 |
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| ensi | hmm does anyone happen to know what application is laucnhed when user goes to Settings -> Voip and IM Accounts | 11:47 |
| ensi | this is on n900 | 11:47 |
| mgedmin | can you call that an "application"? | 11:51 |
| mgedmin | it's a settings dialog | 11:51 |
| wjt | rtcom-accounts-ui | 11:51 |
| mgedmin | osso-applet-accounts, I think | 11:51 |
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| wjt | ensi: why do you ask? | 11:55 |
| ensi | is there a way to invoke it externally? | 11:55 |
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| * wjt peers | 11:55 | |
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| wjt | ensi: you could try just running it; or, i think it has a D-Bus API to launch it on particular screens | 11:57 |
| ensi | ok thanks | 11:58 |
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| wjt | there might also be a client library shipped | 12:01 |
| wjt | (namely rtcom-accounts-ui-client) | 12:01 |
| Termana | cbx33: I know the discussion happened over half an hour ago or so, but Google is at fault for an invalid certificate, not Maemo. | 12:02 |
| ensi | hmm im trying to launch /usb/bin/rtcom-accounts-ui and it wont launch the GUI (or the process seems to be running but nothign comes up on screen) | 12:02 |
| johnx | ensi, is this maemo4 or 5? | 12:02 |
| cbx33 | Termana: but the certificate is not flagged as bad elsewhere | 12:02 |
| wjt | 5 | 12:02 |
| ensi | maemo 5 | 12:02 |
| cbx33 | could it not be that there is an old root cert in maemo? | 12:03 |
| johnx | if you have dbus-monitor available you could possibly see if a dbus message gets sent when other things bring up that dialog | 12:03 |
| wjt | ensi: I'd use use rtcom-accounts-ui-client if i were you | 12:03 |
| wjt | the d-bus API is pretty simple though | 12:03 |
| ensi | wjt: cant find such a thing | 12:03 |
| wjt | it's a library, not a tool | 12:03 |
| Termana | cbx33: Google gave me a bad certificate earlier today. I was on a (horror) Windows PC at the time. | 12:03 |
| ensi | only have rtcom-accounts-ui and rtcom-accounts-ui.launch (which segfaults) | 12:03 |
| ensi | oh | 12:03 |
| cbx33 | hmmm | 12:03 |
| cbx33 | ok | 12:03 |
| cbx33 | Termana: for imap on gmail? | 12:04 |
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| Termana | Nah, they gave me an invalid certificate for HTTPS. Its probably pretty different, but I thought I would just throw that in there | 12:04 |
| mgedmin | there's an idea for a web 2.0 service: badcertificateforeveryoneoronlyme.com | 12:05 |
| cbx33 | Termana: ok thanks | 12:05 |
| wjt | ensi: try: dbus-send --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.AccountsUI /com/nokia/AccountsUI com.nokia.Accounts.OpenAccountsList uint32:0 | 12:05 |
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| ensi | wjt: i get | 12:07 |
| ensi | http://codepad.org/8VUEXEno | 12:08 |
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| ensi | it runs the correct dialog btw | 12:08 |
| ensi | very nice | 12:08 |
| wjt | yeah, the object at the path you get back implements an interface you can use to control it further, i think | 12:11 |
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| wjt | glad to help :) | 12:11 |
| ensi | thats all i need to do to launch the config dialog | 12:11 |
| ensi | how did you figure this out, is there a doc where i can look this up or you have internal access? ;) | 12:11 |
| wjt | ensi: start a terminal, run `dbus-monitor`; switch to somewhere where you can launch the accounts dialog and launch it, and look back in the terminal to see what happened on d-bus | 12:12 |
| ensi | oh cool | 12:13 |
| ensi | heh this is good stuff. i've never used d-bus. i know what it is about but no practical knowledge | 12:13 |
| ensi | thanks a bunch! | 12:13 |
| wjt | np! | 12:14 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: around? | 12:14 |
| wjt | if you're using this from a C application, you should probably use librtcom-accounts-ui-client | 12:14 |
| wjt | and in any case, don't shell out to dbus-send :) | 12:14 |
| vesa | anyone had a look at bug #6067 submitted during weekend but nobodys voted any which way. just wondering if the bugreport is missing something or is in the wrong place... | 12:15 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6067 Media player becomes unusable if a dialog is open when opening a stream link from browser | 12:15 |
| vesa | oh ah heh =) | 12:15 |
| mikhas | vesa, do you need someone confirming the bug? | 12:16 |
| ensi | wjt: probably this one? | 12:16 |
| ensi | librtcom-accounts-ui-client0 - Client library to control AccountsUI | 12:16 |
| vesa | well that'd be a good start. if it's only my device then i'll flash it again today and recheck. | 12:16 |
| vesa | but it's quite an annoying bug as it requires a reboot if you accidentally open a stream with a dialog open in mediaplayer | 12:16 |
| mikhas | ok, will try. let's see | 12:16 |
| vesa | thanks | 12:18 |
| wjt | ensi: aye. hopefully the -dev package with the header files is in the SDK... | 12:19 |
| ensi | yeah it is | 12:19 |
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| ensi | ah shame i cant use this | 12:20 |
| ensi | the api wants a GtkWindow* (probably for parenting the dialogs... or something) | 12:21 |
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| wjt | what're you writing? | 12:22 |
| ensi | its an application | 12:22 |
| ensi | but its in Qt, not Gtk | 12:22 |
| wjt | hmm. the d-bus API just uses XIDs | 12:22 |
| wjt | you should just be able to pass NULL for the GtkWindow * argument | 12:23 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Yep | 12:23 |
| wjt | and then it'll pass the XID 0 like you did above. or, if you can get an XID from Qt, maybe just use QDBus to call the D-Bus API directly | 12:24 |
| tbf | that iphone exploit also would work on N900 with ssh installed: http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=7549 | 12:25 |
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| tbf | btw, why doesn't the sshd package ask for setting up a password anymore? | 12:25 |
| ensi | wjt: whats XID? | 12:26 |
| ensi | executable id or something? | 12:26 |
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| johnx | I'm guessing the ID of the X11 window? | 12:27 |
| wjt | johnx: right | 12:27 |
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| mikhas | vesa, I can confirm the freezing dialog (that is, not accepting any user input) | 12:28 |
| ensi | " * This manual documents the <em>low-level</em> D-Bus C API. <b>If you use * this low-level API directly, you're signing up for some pain.</b> | 12:28 |
| ensi | :| | 12:28 |
| wjt | i'd use qdbus rather than libdbus :) | 12:29 |
| ensi | wrapper? | 12:29 |
| wjt | it happens to be | 12:29 |
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| ensi | ah qt dbus | 12:29 |
| vesa | mikhas: ok. so its a real bug. what's the normal action here? you vote for it and we see if others do too. then just wait? =) | 12:30 |
| mikhas | vesa, I added my thoughts | 12:30 |
| mikhas | will vote, too | 12:30 |
| vesa | ok, thanks. | 12:31 |
| wjt | ensi: got to head out; happy hacking! | 12:32 |
| ensi | wjt: have fun, thanks! | 12:32 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: How do I deleted current Transmission config? Have not been able to find it neither in gconf nor in ~/.* | 12:36 |
| ccooke | Morning, all | 12:36 |
| RST38h | moo ccooke | 12:36 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: ~/.config/transmission | 12:36 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Oh. Thanks! | 12:37 |
| mikhas | vesa, we could add some keywords, maybe. but yeah, you'll have to wait a bit | 12:37 |
| mikhas | also, it would be good if you find more of those modal dialogs bugs =) | 12:38 |
| mikhas | (you mentioned that you came across a similar problem elsewhere) | 12:38 |
| vesa | yeah. i'm quite sure i did but can't remember what application/scenario =/ | 12:39 |
| mgedmin | $XDG_CONFIG_DIR for the win! | 12:39 |
| mikhas | then you can link the bugs to each other, and that surely catches attention quickly, methinks | 12:39 |
| vesa | like you said it's probably a windowmanager type-bug which would mean most of the applications are affected | 12:39 |
| mikhas | maybe it is, yes | 12:39 |
| vesa | testing with email app | 12:41 |
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| timeless | @FRA | 12:55 |
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| RST38h | Blind Gamer Sues Sony | 12:56 |
| RST38h | Umgh. | 12:56 |
| vesa | mikhas: email, browser and conversations seem to handle similar stuff ok | 12:58 |
| mikhas | So I guess apps can work around this problem, somehow. And the media player doesn't. | 13:00 |
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| mikhas | Now it'd be a good point to find more knowledgable people =) | 13:00 |
| vesa | yeah =) | 13:02 |
| RST38h | mikhas: What is the bug you are talking about? | 13:05 |
| qwerty12 | Is the report pertaining to the fact that you can't switch windows with a modal dialog open? | 13:05 |
| qwerty12 | (bugs.maemo.org is blocked here) | 13:05 |
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| mikhas | bug #6067 | 13:05 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6067 Media player becomes unusable if a dialog is open when opening a stream link from browser | 13:05 |
| mikhas | RST38h, ^^^ | 13:05 |
| RST38h | a'ok | 13:06 |
| RST38h | Hmm...no, it is not one of the bugs I have seen | 13:07 |
| vesa | submitted this weekend while playing around with the radio stuff | 13:08 |
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| timeless | qwerty: system modal dialogs are well... | 13:16 |
| * timeless blames ui team | 13:16 | |
| timeless | ctrl-backspace works for some dialogs | 13:16 |
| qwerty12 | ...and for others, you are taken back to the desktop with the dialog still on top :-) | 13:17 |
| timeless | a heavy bat is your best hope otherwise | 13:17 |
| timeless | qwerty: zenity? | 13:17 |
| qwerty12 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Legacy_Maemo_5_Documentation/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Windows_and_dialogs explains it quite well | 13:17 |
| timeless | speaking of which ;) | 13:17 |
| qwerty12 | timeless: What window, exactly, would I get Zenity's dialogs transient for? | 13:18 |
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| timeless | ideally we'd set up zenity to take an arg/env var of an xwindow id | 13:23 |
| timeless | for control panel,my cpa would sniff x11 to find the cpa window and pass that | 13:23 |
| timeless | can you just manage the code to support transience via an arg? | 13:24 |
| timeless | we can do the other part later | 13:24 |
| qwerty12 | Makes sense; *nods* | 13:24 |
| timeless | we probably will need to have a --window mode for zenity | 13:24 |
| timeless | where instead of being a dialog | 13:25 |
| timeless | it paints a full window | 13:25 |
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| lardman | morning | 13:25 |
| timeless | in my case, i won't need it | 13:25 |
| timeless | but other cases would | 13:25 |
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| timeless | hrm | 13:26 |
| timeless | make that --as-window | 13:26 |
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| timeless | since it's not the knd of object, merely a change to how it works | 13:27 |
| timeless | the one i want is --parent-window= | 13:27 |
| timeless | think you can do those today? | 13:28 |
| timeless | my bet is it's roughly 10 lines of code | 13:28 |
| timeless | the harder code is probably for the cpa to fish out the actual parent id | 13:28 |
| * kirma wonders how franticly he should look after the credit card history for signs of approaching N900 shipment ;) | 13:30 | |
| timeless | kirma: i wouldn't bother | 13:30 |
| kirma | I know. | 13:30 |
| lardman | hmm, any Telepathists around? | 13:31 |
| Robot101 | lardman: yes, and always on #telepathy :) | 13:31 |
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| timeless | hrm, http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091109-704508.html made google news | 13:31 |
| lardman | Robot101: well this is N900 specific so I thought I'd ask here first | 13:31 |
| lardman | Robot101: it may also not be so much Telepathy and more abook related | 13:32 |
| qwerty12 | timeless: sounds do-able. In return, please get the browser's address bar fixed | 13:32 |
| lardman | Robot101: anyway, I'm trying to work out where the geolocation information (i.e. the @ London, etc.) is located in a contact? | 13:33 |
| Robot101 | barisione: ^^ ? | 13:33 |
| Robot101 | lardman: it could just be parsed out of the presence by the abook UI | 13:33 |
| lardman | yeah, but I can't find the right field in the contact/presence objects | 13:34 |
| lardman | geo is empty, presence location is empty, notes is empty, etc | 13:34 |
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| lardman | I've probably wandered right past it, but thought I would just ask and see if anyone knows off the top of their head | 13:34 |
| Robot101 | lardman: barisione's your man, but he's asleep or something :) | 13:35 |
| lardman | Robot101: ok, thanks :) | 13:35 |
| timeless | arrow key support? | 13:38 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, ping | 13:39 |
| qwerty12 | timeless: Try pressing up to select a url already in the list. Not going to happen :) | 13:39 |
| barisione | Robot101: I'm not asleep, I'm in the office :) | 13:39 |
| Robot101 | barisione: yes yes sure thing... :) | 13:39 |
| * barisione reads the backlog | 13:40 | |
| Robot101 | that doesn't mean you're awake... :D | 13:40 |
| lardman | barisione: can I ask you a work related question then please? ;) | 13:40 |
| barisione | lardman: sure | 13:40 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, pong | 13:40 |
| lardman | I'm trying to extract the location information for my contacts, so I can plot them on a map in the end, do you know which field this lives in? | 13:40 |
| lardman | I'm using this test code atm (modified version of the maemo-examples code): http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/temp/test_abook.c | 13:41 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, are you subscribing the gsoc-meetups list ? :P | 13:41 |
| barisione | lardman: sadly it's just in the presence status message | 13:41 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, no, i haven't subscribed! | 13:41 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, why? | 13:41 |
| VDVsx | zaheerm, gonna promote the barcelona hackfest there :P | 13:41 |
| lardman | barisione: ah, that comes back empty (or rather NULL) for me though | 13:41 |
| barisione | but do you see it in the address book? | 13:42 |
| lardman | yes | 13:42 |
| zaheerm | VDVsx, cool | 13:42 |
| lardman | barisione: what does osso_abook_presence_get_location_string() do in that case? | 13:43 |
| barisione | ah, you use e_contact_get(E_CONTACT(contact), E_CONTACT_GEO) | 13:43 |
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| lardman | I've tried that, I was trying all sorts to see where it was | 13:43 |
| lardman | but that never returns anything | 13:43 |
| lardman | there's also a binary and a build.sh script in the same dir if you (or anyone) wants to try for themselves | 13:46 |
| barisione | nope, E_CONTACT_GEO is not going to work, | 13:46 |
| barisione | osso_abook_contact_presence_get_location_string should work | 13:46 |
| lardman | presence location: (null) | 13:47 |
| Jaffa | murrayc: Was it you saying, btw, that I'd have problems with Facebook & addresses & phone numbers? | 13:48 |
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| barisione | lardman: sorry, I have no idea. let me check the code | 13:49 |
| murrayc | Jaffa, yes, because tbf said that. | 13:49 |
| lardman | barisione: osso_abook_presence_get_presence_status(OSSO_ABOOK_PRESENCE(contact)) also always returns NULL | 13:49 |
| lardman | barisione: thanks | 13:49 |
| tbf | what am i saying? | 13:51 |
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| murrayc | tbf: It's about the facebook terms-of-service. | 13:52 |
| tbf | murrayc: ah. yes. | 13:52 |
| tbf | Jaffa: you are violating the terms of services when you fetch phone numbers and full addresses from facebook. | 13:53 |
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| tbf | Jaffa: you violate them because for getting them you have to bypass the API, and enter your user's credentials into login.php | 13:55 |
| tbf | Jaffa: that technique is called "proxying" by FB and forbidden | 13:55 |
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| zaheerm | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8349905.stm | 14:02 |
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| sarower_ | good morning all, | 14:02 |
| sarower_ | If i use expose_event then can I use system button like gtkButton? | 14:03 |
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| sarower_ | Where i am drawing image i am not using widget but i want to use a widget where no image is drawing | 14:04 |
| sarower_ | but dynamically it will use image in another view | 14:04 |
| sarower_ | how it could be ? | 14:05 |
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| kalikianatoli | sarower_, not sure what you plan to do. you could use a GtkImage and unset the image as needed | 14:06 |
| kalikianatoli | or use a GtkDrawingArea and draw the image when you need it | 14:06 |
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| sarower_ | hi | 14:07 |
| sarower_ | kalikianatoli: It is possible to set GtkImage and unset dynamically. but i use expose event to draw and cairo | 14:08 |
| sarower_ | kalikianatoli: How it could be possible? | 14:09 |
| lardman | any vala people here? | 14:10 |
| kalikianatoli | sarower_, if you want to draw on your own a drawing area is probably what you want, it's specifically meant for that | 14:10 |
| barisione | lardman: I found the problem and why it doesn't work | 14:12 |
| barisione | give me some more minutes to find out the details | 14:12 |
| lardman | ok, thanks | 14:12 |
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| sarower_ | kalikianatoli: Actually the scenario is that I need to draw image, text using cairo over an applet. That means I am using expose event to draw these. | 14:17 |
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| sarower_ | kalikianatoli: At the same time, can i use widget if needed? | 14:18 |
| barisione | lardman: so, it really seems that this is broken :( | 14:18 |
| barisione | lardman: the problem is that the format for geolocation in the presence status changed from the easy to parse “message [location]” to the harder to parse “message - location” or, if there is no message, just “@ location” | 14:20 |
| zaheerm | sarower_, you can probably use cairo to draw the image? | 14:20 |
| barisione | lardman: I'm reporting a bug. in the meantime you can just try to parse the presence status by yourself | 14:20 |
| sarower_ | zaheerm: ok, But can i use other widget suppose gtkbutton there? | 14:20 |
| barisione | lardman: but parsing it correctly could be a bit difficult considering that “-” is a very common symbol... | 14:21 |
| sarower_ | suppose at position 0,0 an image and at position 100, 0 0a button? | 14:21 |
| zaheerm | sarower_, better off using a GtkDrawingArea and use cairo to draw the stuff you want there i think | 14:21 |
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| sarower_ | zaheerm: suppose at position 0,0 an image and at position 100, 0 0a button? | 14:21 |
| sarower_ | if i use drawing area? | 14:21 |
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| zaheerm | sarower_, i am no gtk expert but you can arrange your widgets in a layout (like a GtkTable or GtkVBox or GtkHBox), where you want to draw on top...use a GtkDrawingArea and where you want a button use a HildonButton | 14:22 |
| lardman | barisione: hmm, I can't see that symbol actually | 14:24 |
| lardman | barisione: in irc, I need a better client | 14:25 |
| lardman | barisione: so which call should return the parsable string I need? | 14:25 |
| barisione | lardman: hm? it's a dash :) | 14:25 |
| barisione | - | 14:25 |
| lardman | I am seing: “ | 14:25 |
| lardman | a-circumflex+£+block | 14:26 |
| barisione | my proper unicode quotes break your client :) | 14:26 |
| Robot101 | lardman: are you working on an Emerillon plugin? | 14:26 |
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| lardman | barisione: yeah, but I'm running under Windows atm so what do you expect? ;) | 14:26 |
| lardman | Robot101: yes | 14:26 |
| barisione | hehe :) | 14:26 |
| Robot101 | lardman: you can still config your client to use Unicode | 14:26 |
| Robot101 | lardman: while you're there, you should also port over the contacts-on-a-map code from Empathy | 14:27 |
| Robot101 | so it will support both official Telepathy location interfaces, and Maemo's @ location stuff | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer0.17-nm.png <- a cookie for gabriel schulhof if he's here for making hildon-systray | 14:27 |
| lardman | yeah, that's the sort of thing I want | 14:27 |
| Robot101 | lardman: we want it removed from Empathy and put into Emerillon | 14:27 |
| lardman | I've put an un-hildonised emerillon in extras-devel, hoping to get some more people interested | 14:27 |
| Robot101 | yeah I saw that :D | 14:28 |
| Robot101 | is there a maemo repository somewhere for emerillon? gitorious or so? | 14:28 |
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| lardman | no, nothing yet, was wondering about starting one | 14:28 |
| barisione | cool, targeting fremantle was my main goal when I started emerillon | 14:28 |
| barisione | (before giving up for lack of time) | 14:28 |
| lardman | ah ok | 14:29 |
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| lardman | well I patched emerillon to use liblocation rather than geoclue, and shockingly it worked out of the box | 14:30 |
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| Robot101 | I have a suspicion it doesn't turn liblocation off | 14:30 |
| lardman | yeah it doesn't I seem to remember | 14:30 |
| Robot101 | my device was trying to get a geoloc fix even though emerillon was closed and I was offline and not taking any pictures | 14:30 |
| lardman | though I did stick the call in there, but perhaps in the wrong place | 14:30 |
| VDVsx | lardman, emerillon is written in C right ? | 14:30 |
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| lardman | VDVsx: yes | 14:43 |
| lardman | sorry for the delay, had to talk to the boss | 14:43 |
| lardman | so who do I talk to about opening a Garage project for Emerillon in X-Fade's absence? | 14:44 |
| tekojo | lardman the same place you always talk to when opening a garage project, the web page | 14:45 |
| lardman | oh, I normally skip that step | 14:46 |
| lardman | will use it now though ;) | 14:46 |
| tekojo | Oh, now I know why X-Fade is so busy all the time :-) | 14:46 |
| lardman | yep, that and his trying to remove me from the maemo.org frontpage all the time ;) | 14:47 |
| lardman | so being serious again, is a Garage project the best bet here? | 14:48 |
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| lardman | I would hope that the upstream guys will eventually take patches | 14:48 |
| lardman | in which case what should the Garage name be? mEmeriillon or some-such? | 14:48 |
| lardman | or just plain Emerillon | 14:48 |
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| wjt | you could pick the name of a different explorer's ship that starts with M? :) | 14:49 |
| lardman | Well I don't really want to fork it, just add hildon-isation patches, and support location methods used on the Maemo devices | 14:50 |
| * timeless board to HEL | 14:52 | |
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| ensi | wjt: yo | 14:54 |
| ensi | any ideas where I could find the dbus message signature for invoking "Mail for Exchange" (settings -> Mail For Exchange). I've looked in the headers for rtcom but cant find anything. Don't have access to the source either. | 14:56 |
| ensi | neither can i find anything in the system that invokes this already so i cant get the method signature with dbus-monitor | 14:56 |
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| lardman | barisione: you said I need to parse the presence status. I presume I get this string using: osso_abook_presence_get_presence_status(OSSO_ABOOK_PRESENCE(contact)) ? | 14:59 |
| barisione | yep | 14:59 |
| barisione | hm wait | 14:59 |
| lardman | this is always (null) | 14:59 |
| _|Nix|_ | X-Fade: Ping! | 14:59 |
| lardman | _|Nix|_: I think he's on holiday | 15:00 |
| barisione | lardman: it's not that function | 15:00 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Aha ... OK ... | 15:00 |
| barisione | lardman: it's osso_abook_presence_get_presence_status_message | 15:00 |
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| _|Nix|_ | So, whom can I talk to about a fatally non-responsive FM packages page? (a.k.a, MB#6085)? | 15:01 |
| * Stskeeps passes _|Nix|_ a cookie for hildon-systray | 15:01 | |
| lardman | barisione: thanks | 15:01 |
| _|Nix|_ | *munch* *munch* ... | 15:01 |
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| barisione | lardman: you are welcome | 15:01 |
| lardman | barisione: are there any plans to pass more useful data, e.g. lat/lon and accuracy? | 15:01 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: What do you use it for? | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | _|Nix|_: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer0.17-nm.png | 15:02 |
| barisione | lardman: not that I know of. the problem is that lat/lon looks ugly I think | 15:02 |
| barisione | so they want strings | 15:02 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: *nod* ... niceness! | 15:02 |
| barisione | the proper solution would be not to abuse the presence message | 15:02 |
| lardman | barisione: yep, just wondering if it could be passed in some other non-visiable field | 15:02 |
| barisione | we have a telepathy interface for geolocation | 15:02 |
| barisione | but it works only with xmpp | 15:03 |
| barisione | and the server has to support that | 15:03 |
| lardman | yeah, and most servers don't support it | 15:03 |
| lardman | or it's not enabled | 15:03 |
| barisione | and gmail (the biggest xmpp server) doesn't have it too | 15:03 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: Still, it'd be nice to have it as a home applet in FM, IMO. Unfortunately, it looks like home applets cannot properly handle XEmbed windows (MB#6024). | 15:03 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: However, look at the source package for a fairly generic implementation of the systray mechanism. You can pretty much turn any widget into a systray. | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | _|Nix|_: :nod: will look into it | 15:04 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: Any container, that is. | 15:04 |
| lardman | barisione: ok, well once I get this working, I can at least point at something and say "it would be better with this/that/the other" | 15:04 |
| lardman | barisione: cheers for your help | 15:04 |
| barisione | np | 15:04 |
| * lardman heads off for some lunch and emerillon hacking | 15:04 | |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: I stole it from Diablo's hildon-desktop, so the credit is not all mine. | 15:04 |
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| wjt | ensi: no idea. it might not be service-activated. | 15:05 |
| Stskeeps | _|Nix|_: i hoped systray icons would be part of the status area but i guess there might be a good reason for it being not so | 15:05 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: Status icons are too small + read-only. | 15:05 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: Could've used a specially handled window though ... | 15:06 |
| suihkulokki | the n900 delayed thread has gone completly nutty today | 15:06 |
| Stskeeps | maybe like load-applet where it has for instance three functions in one | 15:07 |
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| hrw | hi all | 15:07 |
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| Termana | suihkulokki: From this, we can infer, everyone in the thread is probably n900-crazy. The thread is not safe to enter until the savagers get their n900s | 15:07 |
| Termana | savages* | 15:07 |
| Termana | hello hrw | 15:08 |
| hrw | still no info when n900 will be available? | 15:08 |
| ensi | wjt: ok no probs thanks | 15:08 |
| auenf | some of the savages arent going to get a n900 tho :P | 15:08 |
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| Stskeeps | _|Nix|_: by status area i mean the one that pops up when clicking the status area :P | 15:09 |
| Termana | auenf: then the thread is permantely barred, at least if you don't want to be ripped to shreds. | 15:09 |
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| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: That's better, but still not perfect. The main point of the system tray is to be always visible. I mean, imagine nm-applet. If you lose connectivity, how would you know, until you check in the status menu? | 15:10 |
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| Stskeeps | notifications? :P | 15:11 |
| Termana | hrw - I can guarentee that if there is any news at all regarding the N900, you'll see topics about it in the "hottest topics" sidebar (or whatever it's called) | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | (we actually use hildon banners :P) | 15:11 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: That requires that every application switch from system tray to notifications. | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 15:12 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: Unfortunately, system tray is older than notifications. You can thank Windoze 95 for that. | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | will allow us to have a transitional period at least for this stuff until we integrate it better, so that's good | 15:13 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: I was thinking about listening to expose events from those windows whose IDs I receive, and then popping up the dialog. | 15:14 |
| _|Nix|_ | Stskeeps: The problem with that is that, if you have an animation, you may have 1e6 expose events. | 15:15 |
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| vesa | what's the official place for the maemo5 sdk? | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | forum nokia these days | 15:30 |
| vesa | can't find the api docs there =/ | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: 6087 makes my brain hurt | 15:31 |
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| andre__ | Stskeeps, that's why I CC'ed you. you got much more clue :) | 15:32 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: maemo-sdk-installer_5.0.sh is like a way to filter fanatics at the door or something.. | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:33 |
| andre__ | haha | 15:33 |
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| vesa | the forum.nokia.com library only has s60, java, web, flash. nothing about maemo =/ | 15:33 |
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| crashanddie | Hi guys, anyone got an up-to-date (Maemo 5) VMWare image with scratchbox or something? | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: probably saner to just grab a ubuntu image and grab the .sh script | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | s | 15:34 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: would make sense indeed | 15:34 |
| andre__ | vesa, http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/ ? | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: we need a lawyer in maemo.org, licensemaster, or something | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | or a philosopher. | 15:34 |
| andre__ | it's pretty related, yeah. | 15:35 |
| andre__ | a friend of mine switched from studying law to theology, as "it's both about finding the truth". | 15:35 |
| vesa | andre__: yeah. maybe i'm just too used to structured searchable api docs that don't require you to know wtf a gstreamer is =) | 15:35 |
| andre__ | a gstreamer is a tasty multimedia package :-P | 15:36 |
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| crashanddie | andre__: neither law nor theology is about finding the truth, it's about finding where we went wrong, but still manage to spin the story in such a way the guys at the top don't get screwed and keep getting the monies | 15:42 |
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| andre__ | crashanddie, actually both is about interpreting text :) | 15:43 |
| andre__ | a law does not exist as long as a lawyer has not interpreted and applied it in court. | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | andre__: it's interesting to see how closely related both fields are | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | andre__: a laywer and a priest both dress up weirdly, show up in a near empty room and talk for hours to a dozen people who didn't want to be there in the first place | 15:44 |
| aquatix | ha | 15:44 |
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| aquatix | i need to remember that one | 15:44 |
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| andre__ | yeah, they are quite similar | 15:46 |
| zaheerm | thp, just got your blog comment | 15:49 |
| zaheerm | re: gpodder + zoutube integration | 15:50 |
| mikhas | hm, zootube ... | 15:51 |
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| ccooke | Hmm. So if the n900 is shipping today (so they say) we should be able to get the release firmware sometime soon, right? | 15:54 |
| zaheerm | ccooke, hopefully :) | 15:55 |
| frals | wow, the shippingthread needs to die | 15:58 |
| ccooke | frals: which one? ;-) | 15:58 |
| frals | good point. D | 15:58 |
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| frals | :D* | 15:58 |
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| lardman | hey fiferboy | 16:17 |
| fiferboy | hi lardman | 16:18 |
| lardman | got that code working and returning locations now | 16:18 |
| fiferboy | Sweet! | 16:18 |
| lardman | need to do some reverse geocoding stuff now | 16:18 |
| fiferboy | Then you will be able to map them? | 16:18 |
| lardman | yep :) | 16:18 |
| lardman | will add it as a plugin to emerillon | 16:18 |
| fiferboy | Very nice. How is emerillon working on the device? | 16:18 |
| fiferboy | ~lart visioviewer.exe | 16:19 |
| * infobot stuffs visioviewer.exe into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it | 16:19 | |
| lardman | ok, some problems getting some new vala plugins to work | 16:19 |
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| lardman | and I need to hildonise the menu | 16:19 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer0.17-nm.png | 16:24 |
| lardman | has anyone got round to making an app to switch on/off g_ether? | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | i suspect g_nokia is actually usbnet | 16:25 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Nice! | 16:25 |
| lardman | yeah it is, just needs some config | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | which means it's activated by pc suite mode | 16:26 |
| lardman | yep | 16:26 |
| lardman | but I don't think it is immediately usable | 16:26 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Not entirely sure about that; cdc_pcsuite must exist for a reason | 16:27 |
| *** VDVsx changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt | Q&A and Extras-testing discussion - November 10, 14:30 UTC @ #maemo-meeting - http://tinyurl.com/yfjglvd" | 16:28 | |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps: Erm, cdc_phonet | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | composite gadget maybe | 16:29 |
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| lardman | hmm, I really can't see where valac is used | 16:39 |
| lardman | or does gcc recognise .vala as a file type? | 16:39 |
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| JamieBennett | X-Fade: you around? | 17:02 |
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| papo | hello | 17:06 |
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| wazd | 6 places remain in Moscow :) | 17:17 |
| penguinbait | engrish, man I was laughing so hard I almost fell out of my chair | 17:18 |
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| crashanddie | lardman: that's a bloody long lunch! | 17:20 |
| lardman | yeah tell me about it | 17:20 |
| lardman | :) | 17:20 |
| crashanddie | god I'm jet-lagged | 17:20 |
| crashanddie | I could just sleep under my desk right now | 17:20 |
| lardman | :) | 17:20 |
| crashanddie | what you been up to? | 17:21 |
| lardman | wasn't feeling too hot last week | 17:21 |
| lardman | and been moving furniture to my parents' house so we can decorate | 17:21 |
| papo | I'm wondering whether I can use the SDK to get an impression of this maemo 5 OS | 17:22 |
| papo | because I'm actually very near to buying a N900 and I'm eager to see what I will get | 17:22 |
| lardman | crashanddie: and trying to force myself to crack on with emerillon and mbarcode in my spare moments | 17:22 |
| crashanddie | lardman: redecorating? | 17:22 |
| lardman | papo: it doesn't show the ui | 17:23 |
| papo | aw | 17:23 |
| crashanddie | lardman: I agree, you should be working on emerillon | 17:23 |
| lardman | I don't think anyway | 17:23 |
| papo | lardman: ok, thank you | 17:23 |
| crashanddie | lardman: what's emerillon, btw? | 17:23 |
| lardman | lol | 17:23 |
| lardman | http://www.novopia.com/emerillon/ | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | papo, no, the SDK is *not* a good way to get an impression of a N900 | 17:24 |
| papo | lardman: I'm also wondering which parts I can alter... I've read on several places that this is going to be open source etc. but I don't think this will hold for the whole phone... so what exactly will I be able to code? | 17:24 |
| mgedmin | it's half-open, and I'd like to see a map too | 17:24 |
| mgedmin | rule of thumb: builting applications are closed-source | 17:25 |
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| mgedmin | unless the app is based on a preexisting open-source app | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | eg. the mail client is open | 17:25 |
| papo | hm ok | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | the browser's backed is open (geck), front-end is not (afaik) | 17:25 |
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| hrw | I hope that Qt will work properly | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | very large bits of the infrastructure are open | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | some are not (skype, probably sms and voice calls) | 17:26 |
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| mgedmin | nice thing is that there's no code signing etc. | 17:26 |
| hrw | mgedmin: like in symbian? | 17:27 |
| crashanddie | mgedmin: skype is going to be open sourced | 17:27 |
| papo | hm ok so by that, coming up with some code which allows me to block certain numbers or something like that is not likely possible (unless the phone can do that anyway) | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | no need to "jailbreak"; to get root you install one package from the official unofficial repository | 17:27 |
| crashanddie | mgedmin: so we can expect the skype integration for N900 to be open sourced as well | 17:27 |
| hrw | crashanddie: time will show how they will open it | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | crashanddie: only the frontend; the protocol bits will remain a closed library | 17:27 |
| papo | crashanddie: Is it? Last thing I read was about the UI | 17:27 |
| aquatix | crashanddie: wait wut? | 17:27 |
| crashanddie | and the UI is what exactly? | 17:28 |
| crashanddie | it's 90% of what you use, it's 100% of what is implemented in Maemo 5 | 17:28 |
| papo | crashanddie: The thing you see. Not the libraries that handle compression, encryption etc. | 17:28 |
| aquatix | i think they won't opensource the tech | 17:28 |
| aquatix | as there's too much obfuscation going on | 17:28 |
| crashanddie | aye | 17:28 |
| hrw | it is more like 'we suck at non-win32/non-osx guis so please write them by your own' rather | 17:29 |
| papo | mgedmin: Hm yes I read about that philosophy and it's very appealing to me. I'm waiting for an email from the store before I place the order | 17:29 |
| papo | mgedmin: I have to ensure that the keyboard layout is fine but then I'm ready to go | 17:29 |
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| lardman | barisione: cool, working as planned now | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | I don't think the keyboard layout is a good reason to choose a n900 ;) | 17:30 |
| qwerty12 | timeless: ping | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | physically the keys are very nice | 17:31 |
| lardman | barisione: how would the osso_abook_presence_get_location_string() parse the string? | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | there's too few of them, of course; entering < > or | is a pain | 17:31 |
| mmlj4 | brilliant... now my 770 reboots about a minute after the desktop comes up | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | ~ is even more of a pain | 17:31 |
| papo | mgedmin: No it's about the specific layout in my country | 17:31 |
| barisione | lardman: it tries to parse the location that is in square brackets | 17:31 |
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| mmlj4 | I hope the no-lifegueard-reset thing helps | 17:31 |
| barisione | lardman: except that it's not inside the square brackets anymore... | 17:31 |
| lardman | barisione: oh right, I've never seen one of those, only ever the @ London sort of thing | 17:31 |
| papo | mgedmin: I saw some screenshots where some arrow keys were sacrificed for (finnish?) special characters | 17:31 |
| lardman | ah right :) | 17:32 |
| * kalikianatoli wishes he could type accents without touching the screen | 17:32 | |
| papo | mgedmin: And I don't want that since German has umlauts but I never use them because I'm 7bit clean | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | papo, well, you can always choose the layout in the settings | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | and ignore the symbols painted on the keys | 17:32 |
| papo | mgedmin: sure but in general, this confuses me | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if the third level is different in different layouts | 17:33 |
| mgedmin | because that would be very confusing | 17:33 |
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| papo | I have no idea, all I've seen is a bunch of screenshots | 17:33 |
| papo | I saw a German layout which had 4 cursor keys. That would be fine but I need to be sure they're shipping that one in Switzerland | 17:34 |
| lardman | barisione: do you know which component inserts the location string? | 17:34 |
| barisione | lardman: nope, can I can easily discover it | 17:34 |
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| barisione | lardman: btw, we decided to just deprecate that function and give up | 17:34 |
| lardman | barisione: just wondering if I could modify it to pass a lat lon too | 17:35 |
| barisione | the location string is not supposed to be parse | 17:35 |
| barisione | *parsed | 17:35 |
| lardman | barisione: ah right, does that mean there's a better location method to come...? ;) | 17:35 |
| barisione | it's a human readable thing not computer readable thing so we will just deprecate that function | 17:35 |
| barisione | lardman: nope | 17:35 |
| barisione | :( | 17:35 |
| lardman | hmm, that's a shame | 17:36 |
| * barisione hopes for harmattan | 17:36 | |
| lardman | I'd have thought location information would be a big killer app sort of thing, like it is with Android | 17:36 |
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| lardman | well anyway, if I can modify the component to add the lat, lon in square brackets or something of that sort, it might still be of use | 17:37 |
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| hanno | hi. didn't find this through google - the tv-out of the n900 is "only" analog TV, right? or is it hdmi? | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | composite yeah | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | no hdmi (sadly) | 17:56 |
| hanno | oh, too bad. | 17:56 |
| mgedmin | fuzzy-wuzzy very dark PAL/NTSC | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | i had -perfect- picture on my tv | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | it was better than what my computer pushes out :P | 17:56 |
| ccooke | ditto, actually. Very clean. | 17:57 |
| toggles_w | Stskeeps: i thought it was your computer | 17:57 |
| lardman | yeah, works fine for me | 17:57 |
| lardman | spent an evening watching youtube on my TV | 17:57 |
| greenfly | if the n900 is that similar to the openpandora, then the video chipset allows one HD connection (used for the touch screen) and an additional composite out | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | greenfly: yeah, but it's not wired up | 17:57 |
| qwerty12 | Whee, maemo-optify is fucked up! | 17:58 |
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| ccooke | qwerty12: oh? | 17:58 |
| greenfly | Stskeeps: which one isn't wired up? | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Only analog out - but you can have analog out and LCD on different pictures | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | hdmi one doesn't go external at least :P | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | displaying different pictures | 17:58 |
| qwerty12 | ccooke: Look at the latter end of https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/zenity_2.28.0-1maemo1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt | 17:58 |
| greenfly | Stskeeps: yeah I mean the "HD" connection is wired up to the actual screen | 17:58 |
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| qwerty12 | ccooke: I also had the same problem with Transmission yesterday. Included maemo-optify version 0 to work around it. | 17:58 |
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| ccooke | qwerty12: ... oh dear! | 17:59 |
| hanno | other thing - battery time. umpcportal.com says "with all that power, it’s easy to end up with a device that can’t do anything after 2pm!" - will we see major improvements to firmware battery usage or is there little one can do about this? | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | hanno: i usually have about a day's addictive usage | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | and charging it overnight | 18:02 |
| hanno | ok. | 18:02 |
| greenfly | yeah it seems to generally last me a day, depending on what I do | 18:02 |
| greenfly | the package manager really drains the power though | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | apt is insane like that | 18:03 |
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| greenfly | and if you leave some sort of auto-refreshing page open all day it might have a negative effect | 18:03 |
| hanno | but is it realistic to hope for improvements through firmware updates? | 18:03 |
| greenfly | (like google reader, for instance) | 18:03 |
| greenfly | possibly | 18:03 |
| greenfly | for instance in the power saving modes for the wireless card | 18:04 |
| hanno | a "charge once per day" phone device is somewhat problematic. | 18:04 |
| hanno | it's ok for business users. | 18:04 |
| greenfly | I don't know, I sleep at night, so does my phone | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | it's like a little companion. | 18:05 |
| hanno | i'm happier with a phone that lasts a bit longer than a day. but hey, i'll get used to it. | 18:05 |
| hanno | it's just that my wife is interested in a smartphone, too. | 18:05 |
| Mek | if you only use it as a phone it will last a couple of days | 18:05 |
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| Khertan | Hi ! | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | Mek, you say that as if it were a good thing | 18:06 |
| mgedmin | a phone ought to last a week | 18:06 |
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| mgedmin | well, okay, I'll settle for four days | 18:06 |
| greenfly | yeah I don't even really think of it as a phone, really | 18:06 |
| Khertan | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=430 | 18:06 |
| povbot | Bug 430: Show and edit filename extensions | 18:06 |
| hanno | and so i wonder if the n900 is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife_acceptance_factor compatible. | 18:06 |
| greenfly | I think of it more like a pocket laptop | 18:06 |
| Mek | well, if you want just a phone, don't by a portable computer that happens to make phone calls | 18:06 |
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| timeless | @HEL | 18:06 |
| Khertan | povbot: ? | 18:06 |
| povbot | Khertan: Error: "?" is not a valid command. | 18:06 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless: welcome back, and watch out for the metro | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:06 |
| greenfly | I mean the phone part to me is just an extra feature | 18:06 |
| greenfly | it's more like a pocket computer with WWAN | 18:06 |
| Khertan | me is tired of this "dumb user" orientation of Maemo ... | 18:07 |
| timeless | beware of flood? | 18:07 |
| * Khertan is tired of this "dumb user" orientation of Maemo ... | 18:07 | |
| Stskeeps | timeless: yeah :P | 18:07 |
| zaheerm | hanno, my wife loves her one | 18:07 |
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| hanno | is she a nerd? | 18:07 |
| zaheerm | no | 18:07 |
| hanno | ok. :-) | 18:07 |
| Khertan | Someone have already rewrite a FileChooser ? | 18:07 |
| zaheerm | she teaches at a nursery school | 18:08 |
| Khertan | for Maemo ? | 18:08 |
| hanno | zaheerm: how come you have a n900 already? | 18:08 |
| zaheerm | to kids from 2 - 4 year olds | 18:08 |
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| zaheerm | hanno, i was in amsterdam for maemo summit, with my wife :) | 18:08 |
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| * timeless wonders how many wives attended | 18:09 | |
| hanno | or husbands | 18:09 |
| * timeless didn't encounter too many | 18:09 | |
| timeless | as ancillaries of course | 18:09 |
| tbf | Khertan: no users → no income → no jobs → no maemo | 18:09 |
| timeless | i' not interested in agism | 18:09 |
| * Stskeeps grimaces over Trekkies with polish dubbing. | 18:10 | |
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| lardman | timeless: you met mine and she argued that she didn't like the phone ;) | 18:10 |
| Khertan | tbf: -> no developpers -> no users -> no income | 18:10 |
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| * timeless nods | 18:10 | |
| timeless | rightfully so | 18:10 |
| greenfly | my wife keeps eyeing my n900 | 18:10 |
| greenfly | she has an expressmusic 5800 | 18:10 |
| qwerty12 | timeless: zenity binary that accepts an XID (--parent-window=XID): http://qwerty12.qole.org/zenity (It would be in extras-devel were it not for maemo-optify being a POS). Update your perl script to accept an XID as its second argument and pass that to any zenity invocations and I'll update the launcher to grab the XID of the CP window | 18:11 |
| Khertan | tbf: and i not selling anything on maemo | 18:11 |
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| timeless | awesome | 18:11 |
| * timeless ponders | 18:12 | |
| timeless | i don't think my script takes any arguments | 18:12 |
| hanno | yay, i've got more questions about the n900... | 18:12 |
| Khertan | So it s seems i need to rewrite a file chooser dialog from scratch | 18:12 |
| hanno | is there an existing shop integration for OVI with Maemo? | 18:12 |
| hanno | i mean, can people sell software to the device? | 18:12 |
| timeless | hanno: it's assumed it will happen | 18:13 |
| qwerty12 | timeless: How else do you propose the XID gets passed, then? :) | 18:13 |
| fiferboy | Oh boy, about to reset the package karma on personal-photo-frame :) | 18:13 |
| timeless | there are certainly hints | 18:13 |
| hanno | timeless: but no existing shop, yet? | 18:13 |
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| qwerty12 | fiferboy: Don't worry, you won't have gotten much anyway; everyone knows your stuff sucks | 18:13 |
| greenfly | hanno: it's "coming soon" | 18:13 |
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| timeless | qwerty: oh,, i'm just poking at "second" v. _first_ | 18:13 |
| greenfly | hanno: but it's already pointed to on the device out of the box | 18:13 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12: Shh, not everyone knows! | 18:13 |
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| qwerty12 | fiferboy: lol. How's it going? | 18:14 |
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| timeless | i'll do it in an hour or so | 18:14 |
| hanno | ok. nice. this n900 keeps looking better and better. only that everybody around me keeps loving iphones or androids. meh. | 18:14 |
| fiferboy | 2 days overdue | 18:14 |
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| fiferboy | ^ qwerty12 | 18:14 |
| lardman | does web runtime exist yet? | 18:14 |
| timeless | lardman: vaporware | 18:14 |
| timeless | (publicly at least) | 18:15 |
| qwerty12 | fiferboy: Ah | 18:15 |
| hanno | are there any suggestions on why the device has been delayed? software reviews had been great, so it doesn't seem to be firmware trouble. | 18:15 |
| fiferboy | fiferbaby 2.0 missed the initial release date | 18:15 |
| timeless | hanno: there's an official statement from Peter | 18:15 |
| hanno | timeless: link? | 18:15 |
| tbf | Khertan: well, but nokia has to make money with maemo ;-) | 18:15 |
| timeless | but you have three choices typically: | 18:15 |
| timeless | hardware | 18:16 |
| timeless | software | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | hanno: they wanted to add the finishing touch after the feedback from 300 devices given out at summit | 18:16 |
| timeless | certification | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | marketing | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: you forgot 'marketing' in there | 18:16 |
| lardman | timeless: shame | 18:16 |
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| timeless | nah, marketing always wants to ship as soon as possible to hit sales targets or something | 18:16 |
| * Stskeeps thinks current 'delay' is due to the charger replacement news | 18:17 | |
| timeless | unless you claim marketing is using the delay to build up hype+demand | 18:17 |
| timeless | which is incredibly unlikely | 18:17 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless: it is certainly driving people insanely mad ;) | 18:17 |
| lardman | charger replacement? | 18:17 |
| hanno | yes. delays seem to be hurtful in this case, since android is gaining traction with nicer devices. | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: nokia.com/press | 18:17 |
| timeless | sts: did anyone check to see if our charger is among the candidates? | 18:18 |
| greenfly | a few weeks delay is nothing... look at openpandora :) | 18:18 |
| timeless | if it is, that falls squarely under "hardware" :) | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: no, i'm saying it's a bad idea to announce on same day as you are in the news over 'dangerous' chargers.. | 18:18 |
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| Stskeeps | :P | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | announce/ship | 18:18 |
| crashanddie | I've been told by Nokia sources that the shipment should start around November 15 | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | it made it to newspapers here too | 18:19 |
| timeless | oh, that'd be 4. marketing | 18:19 |
| crashanddie | But then again, they were told that it would ship last week as well | 18:19 |
| timeless | it made news.google.com | 18:19 |
| crashanddie | They did assure me that the shipping would start "before christmas" | 18:19 |
| timeless | and iirc it was above droid | 18:19 |
| kirma | stskeeps: N900 ships with AC-10, which is not on the replacement list | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | kirma: that's not the point. the point is, would you want to announce a cool device at same day of big headlines of 'nokia chargers potentially dangerous' | 18:20 |
| timeless | yeah | 18:20 |
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| timeless | marketing could reasonably ask to wait one week | 18:20 |
| timeless | to avoid colliding w/ ... less than positive news items | 18:21 |
| zaheerm | sounds reasonable | 18:22 |
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| kirma | stskeeps: I kind of keep forgetting there are people that aren't personally involved with nokia, or at least with nokia employees :I | 18:26 |
| kirma | and have all kinds of superstitions | 18:26 |
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| lardman | interesting that Google Latitude comes up as unsupported if you go to it with the browser on the N900 (with it saying what the device is) | 18:27 |
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| Stskeeps | kirma: i can still have a lot of superstitions even if i know a small bunch of nokians by now :P | 18:28 |
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| kirma | well, superstitions maybe, but not exactly the sort that'd be about real danger | 18:29 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, is the multi frame tv out accessible via code, or just hypothosised? | 18:29 |
| lcuk | i know its fine for yuv cos its testable | 18:29 |
| kirma | "multi frame" ? | 18:29 |
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| lcuk | output a different videoscreen to the tvout than what is shown on the lcd | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | kirma: living in poland has given me a lot more respect for unstable electricity | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:30 |
| lcuk | i can show liqbase on tvout whilst running gtk desktop on the lcd | 18:30 |
| Khertan | and can you show a FileChooserDialog with file extension ? | 18:31 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:31 |
| Khertan | hi lcuk | 18:31 |
| lcuk | lol hi Khertan | 18:31 |
| * kirma wonders when his 2 euro USB charger, identical to some ipod/iphone charger, will blow up | 18:32 | |
| kirma | well, if it does, there's another ;) | 18:32 |
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| greenfly | is anyone hanging out here that is working on the wireless power management software? | 18:32 |
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| greenfly | just wondering if anyone is looking into the issue that pops up with ssh+screen on wireless with power management all the way up | 18:32 |
| timeless | sounds like keepalive | 18:33 |
| greenfly | or (even better) if there is some public bug # I can just follow | 18:33 |
| timeless | and sometimes a stupid wifi router | 18:33 |
| greenfly | in this case it has occurred with a few different wireless connections | 18:33 |
| timeless | bugs.maemo.org has <<10,000 items | 18:33 |
| timeless | surely you could try searching | 18:33 |
| Khertan | timeless: and how many in won't fix ? :) | 18:34 |
| kirma | btw: if anyone wants to buy a cheap nokia CA-100 from china, dealextreme sells those. but fantastically enough, they have removed the voltage upconverter from it ;) | 18:34 |
| greenfly | essentially a remote screen session will stall and now draw to the screen although key presses go through | 18:34 |
| timeless | this isn't bugzilla.mozilla.org w/ nerly 500,000 items | 18:34 |
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| greenfly | timeless: I was just curious. I'm aware how what I just said came off, but I'm truly not looking for support on it, more just chatting about it | 18:34 |
| timeless | "now" or "not"? | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | greenfly: that you can't SSH in from outside? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | or the other | 18:35 |
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| greenfly | Stskeeps: I can ssh out fine, I expect a little lag with wireless power management on (after all that's how it works essentially) but this so far only shows up when you connect to a remote screen session | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | greenfly, how do you know key presses go through? simultaneous screen -x on the internal xterm? | 18:36 |
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| greenfly | mgedmin: yeah, when I reconnect to the screen session from elsewhere I can see the effect of my key presses | 18:37 |
| timeless | @flood area | 18:37 |
| timeless | should i take photos? | 18:37 |
| wazd | ok, moscow is out :) | 18:37 |
| lcuk | yeah timeless how bad is it? | 18:37 |
| lcuk | i heard multiple stations had been closed | 18:37 |
| lcuk | but how is it above ground | 18:37 |
| greenfly | I'm not quite sure what it is about screen that triggers it | 18:37 |
| greenfly | but I do see it (to a lesser degree) when I run something like mutt | 18:37 |
| greenfly | again this doesn't show up with the 3g connection | 18:38 |
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| greenfly | I can also bump up the power saving mode on the wireless connection to intermediate and it's fine | 18:38 |
| timeless | ddunno | 18:38 |
| greenfly | AFAIK it's a known issue, and again I'm not trying to use this channel as a bugzilla, just chatting about it | 18:38 |
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| greenfly | in the grand scheme of things it's not a dealbreaker or anything, there are certainly bigger fish to fry | 18:39 |
| timeless | sp3000, ping | 18:39 |
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| greenfly | what I wonder if whether there's something about ncurses programs in a terminal that is triggering it | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | I think I've seen something like this | 18:43 |
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| sp3000 | timeless: png | 18:55 |
| sp3000 | o | 18:55 |
| mgedmin | optimized png? | 18:56 |
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| cehteh | hi | 19:15 |
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| mgedmin | oh, *awesome* | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | the whole day I thought my n900 was charging | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | it wasn't | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | bug 6004 | 19:30 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable | 19:30 |
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| suihkulokki | mgedmin: on pc side lsusb as root should show if the pc thinks it is giving power | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | on the pc side lsbus doesn't see anything | 19:33 |
| mgedmin | s/bus/usb/ | 19:33 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: on the pc side lsusb doesn't see anything | 19:33 |
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| papo | hum the more I look at it, the more I find this N900 thing awesome | 19:41 |
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| mgedmin | yep, it's awesome | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | not perfect, but awesome | 19:43 |
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| * lardman is unimpressed that Firefox geolocation seems to think he's in Brum | 19:43 | |
| mgedmin | you will pry mine only from my dead cold fingers | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | or when a n1000 appears | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | or when the 6 months expire and I have to give it back, but by then I'll have one of my own | 19:43 |
| zaheerm | lardman, are you even close to brum? | 19:44 |
| papo | mgedmin: Hm tell me about this awesomeness because I don't have the device yet | 19:44 |
| lardman | in Bath, so only 70 miles or so ;) | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | papo, have you checked out youtube videos? | 19:44 |
| zaheerm | lardman, so give or take a cpl hundred miles it's good :) | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | there were a bunch of them just demoing the web browser | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | which is nice, but only when compared to other mobile browsers | 19:44 |
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| qwerty12 | lardman: See? Even the N900 doesn't like Bath | 19:45 |
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| papo | mgedmin: yes, but I'm never sure what I'm looking at, how beta the software is etc. | 19:45 |
| lardman | zaheerm: right hemisphere at least! :) | 19:45 |
| * mgedmin seems to be very set on lowering people's expectations, so they go "whoa" when they actually get one | 19:45 | |
| lardman | qwerty12: nah, was PC, N900 is quite happy | 19:45 |
| papo | mgedmin: For instance, what about the battery time? I found quite inconclusive numbers on the net | 19:45 |
| mgedmin | the beta software that we have is sometimes noticeably beta | 19:45 |
| mgedmin | battery life is kinda sad; I charge mine twice a day | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | so maybe 7 hours of light nonstop use | 19:46 |
| papo | uh. but you play a lot with it, don't you? | 19:46 |
| papo | hm ok | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | somebody measured ~90 hours of complete idleness | 19:46 |
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| papo | mgedmin: Is there a huge impact when the wifi radio is on? | 19:47 |
| cehteh | mhm .. still fixing bugs here ... i hoped for shipping really soon :/ | 19:47 |
| courmisch | IMU, it is shipping | 19:47 |
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| mgedmin | dunno, my outlook is: I will damn well enable every feature I want to enable, let the battery adjust to me rather than forcing me to adjust to it | 19:48 |
| * lardman ponders how he can actually see the location of his wife's phone on Google Latitude | 19:48 | |
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| papo | hm ok | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | so, wifi or 3g on, gps on, bluetooth on | 19:48 |
| cehteh | courmisch: where? | 19:48 |
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| cehteh | does the gps draw much power? | 19:48 |
| Proteous | mgedmin charges his phone every 5 minutes | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | well, the gps bit is "go on every 30 minutes or so, to update my location in the instant messenging status" | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | and I'm not sure it actually uses the gps, maybe it does everything from cell tower info | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | gps on a n810 was a battery killer | 19:49 |
| courmisch | I wouldn't know about such details | 19:49 |
| papo | hm I wouldn't use the GPS much anyway. Maybe when I go out jogging, to record the track. That would be cool | 19:50 |
| cehteh | yes, but how about n900, the hardware is quite different | 19:50 |
| cehteh | i need gps quite much | 19:50 |
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| lcuk | i still wonder how gps will work in locations where i want it | 19:51 |
| lcuk | like indoors at locations | 19:51 |
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| mgedmin | lcuk, gps -- no, location services -- yes (assuming you've got a sim card inserted) | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | the n900's gps is basically useless without a sim card | 19:52 |
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| * lcuk knows | 19:52 | |
| lcuk | mgedmin, but there is still a prob | 19:52 |
| lcuk | in local supermarket | 19:52 |
| * RST38h moos at confirms what mgdemin says | 19:52 | |
| lcuk | i cant even get phone signal | 19:52 |
| lcuk | so i cant even call the missus let alone do anything gpsey | 19:53 |
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| mgedmin | I have that problem in my apartment | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | some spots have 3.5 g, some have no cellular access at all, even though they're 5cm apart | 19:54 |
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| lcuk | heh | 19:54 |
| frals | wow the "n900 shipping delayed" is really sad now | 19:54 |
| lcuk | my old phone had a problem in old workplace | 19:54 |
| cehteh | eh .. gps useless without sim-card? | 19:54 |
| lcuk | there was a blackhole | 19:54 |
| frals | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=369951&postcount=2133 | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | location services kinda work (they show me as being 2 streets over), so don't expect voice navigation to help you find the milk aisle | 19:54 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Simply tell your N900 not to use 3G | 19:55 |
| mgedmin | cehteh, waiting 6 minutes for a GPS fix sucks | 19:55 |
| * RST38h cackles | 19:55 | |
| cehteh | does it make calls for agps and charge money for that? | 19:55 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, 2 streets over isnt very good when you send a nice lady your location and shes trying to find you | 19:55 |
| mgedmin | and the software seems to have some timeouts that stop string in 5 minutes, so you end up never getting a fix | 19:55 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: That'll cause some carriers to drop you | 19:55 |
| * RST38h found 3G signal at some coffee shop a while ago: it totally confused his N900 | 19:55 | |
| mgedmin | s/string/trying/ | 19:55 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: and the software seems to have some timeouts that stop trying in 5 minutes, so you end up never getting a fix | 19:55 |
| RST38h | Speed: Why? | 19:55 |
| cehteh | mgedmin: yes i read on the n810 it needs to read in the almanac again | 19:55 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: they mandate that you must have a 3G capable phone - as they have poor GSM capacity, or rely on someone elses GSM | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | (hence GSM costs lots | 19:56 |
| cehteh | but thats rather a software problem, not caching it | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | (for them) | 19:56 |
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| cehteh | well and i dont want GPS dialing into wifi and charge money for that | 19:56 |
| RST38h | Speed: weird crap | 19:56 |
| cehteh | that would be really ugly | 19:57 |
| RST38h | Speed: I do not think mgedmin is in that kind of an area though: GSM worked fine for me in .LT | 19:57 |
| mgedmin | nah, I'm currently in Sweden | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Oh - GSM works. It's just that if you lock it on GSM you will get dropped. | 19:58 |
| mgedmin | although my semi-basement apartment in .lt also has extremely poor gsm | 19:58 |
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| * RST38h has got perfectly good GSM behind 1m of concrete, but the glassy office building at work has problems with GSM | 19:59 | |
| RST38h | Must be the aluminium panels it is covered with =) | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | concrete is transparent to microwaves, I think | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | s/I think/as far as I know/ | 20:00 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: concrete is transparent to microwaves, as far as I know | 20:00 |
| lcuk | the walls at the local asda are made up of unobtanium then | 20:00 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: anything >1/2 wavelength is a problem | 20:01 |
| RST38h | mgdmin: of course, any conductor is a problem as well | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | I'm sure the volume of air between me and the nearest cell tower is >1/2 wavelenght | 20:01 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: well, anything solid =) | 20:02 |
| RST38h | of course it is up to discussion if concrete is truly solid :) | 20:02 |
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| cehteh | it contains water | 20:04 |
| RST38h | Yohoooo! N900 appeared in eStore | 20:04 |
| RST38h | centeh: and air, usually | 20:04 |
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| lardman | hmm, although it's possible to use FF geolocation with Google maps, it doesn't filter through to Latitude; shame | 20:04 |
| cehteh | well water sucks up microwaves and transforms them into heat | 20:04 |
| cehteh | guess how a microwave oven works | 20:05 |
| RST38h | water is a conductor, yes | 20:05 |
| * RST38h googles for concrete microwaves | 20:05 | |
| lardman | depends on the electron energies of course | 20:05 |
| RST38h | And google ANSWERS: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/34777.html | 20:06 |
| * lcuk microwaves RST38h's concrete bits | 20:06 | |
| * RST38h is an interrupt, have you forgotten? | 20:06 | |
| lcuk | o2 are silly | 20:07 |
| lcuk | i rung 4445 customer service number | 20:07 |
| lcuk | but im out of credit | 20:07 |
| lcuk | and its telling me to ring customer service | 20:07 |
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| RST38h | isn't customer service number supposed to be free? | 20:08 |
| lcuk | <lcuk> o2 are silly | 20:08 |
| cehteh | so did anyone answered my question if A-GPS will be charged? | 20:08 |
| * RST38h learned the meaning of the word "rebar" in the process. Something new every day, yessss... | 20:09 | |
| lcuk | cehteh, if you connect and use data on a service plan that needs data, i expect you would pay for it | 20:09 |
| lcuk | and since it failed for me cos i had no credit | 20:09 |
| lcuk | i assume its not included in the no data section | 20:09 |
| cehteh | duh | 20:10 |
| lardman | cehteh: but Nokia don't charge for the assistance data, no | 20:10 |
| cehteh | eh what? | 20:10 |
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| lcuk | nokia themselves dont charge you, but there may be a charge to get from your service provider to nokias servers | 20:11 |
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| lcuk | i think | 20:11 |
| lardman | indeed | 20:11 |
| lardman | Nokia provide the data from their supl server | 20:11 |
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| lcuk | what # do i call to find out remaining credit | 20:13 |
| * lardman wonders why the iGoogle lataitude plugin will only use Gears to determine location | 20:13 | |
| lardman | lcuk: no clue, sorry | 20:13 |
| lcuk | i think they just charged me 25p to tell me theres a free number to call to do what i wanted | 20:14 |
| lardman | nice! | 20:14 |
| lardman | that's how they make their money ;) | 20:14 |
| cehteh | ah ok thanks | 20:14 |
| lcuk | not really, cos now im not calling that number and will instead go see if any other mobile providers are better | 20:14 |
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| lcuk | who are you with simon | 20:15 |
| lardman | Wodafone | 20:15 |
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| lardman | I don't imagine the great and vonderous Wodafone will be better TBH | 20:16 |
| qwerty12 | I bet... | 20:16 |
| lardman | :) | 20:16 |
| kalikianatoli | Wodafone is just as bad as D-Mobile I bet :-] | 20:17 |
| lardman | They are all a bunch of money-grabbing buggers I think | 20:17 |
| * qwerty12 quite likes T-Mobile, in the UK anyway... | 20:17 | |
| lcuk | qwerty12, :( with o2 i cant use torrents | 20:19 |
| lcuk | or voip | 20:19 |
| lcuk | or anything | 20:19 |
| * lardman wonders why everyone can't just get along and use the same geolocation methods | 20:19 | |
| mgedmin | because then life would be _simple_ | 20:19 |
| lcuk | cos then we would know where they stand | 20:19 |
| lardman | indeed | 20:19 |
| lardman | annoying tho | 20:19 |
| lcuk | is the n900 considered a phone | 20:19 |
| lcuk | or a computer with modem | 20:20 |
| RST38h | lardman: better mousetrap complex =) | 20:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Phone. Don't you ever call it computer at your cellular provider, or it will be extra =) | 20:20 |
| * lcuk nods | 20:20 | |
| lcuk | You may not use your SIM Card: | 20:20 |
| lcuk | 1. in, or connected to, any other device including modems; | 20:20 |
| kynky | its a primarily a mid and secondaily a phone afaik | 20:20 |
| lcuk | the woman in o2 shop looked down her nose when i mentioned i wanted unlimited 3g data on my mobile | 20:21 |
| lcuk | then got all "oooh" when she saw it was an n900 | 20:21 |
| * mgedmin wants unlimited 3g data too :( | 20:22 | |
| lcuk | too late wench! she missed her chance at holding the real ultimate power! | 20:22 |
| lardman | you didn't just whip it out for her? ;) | 20:22 |
| qwerty12 | ...with liqbase running on it? | 20:22 |
| lcuk | lol | 20:23 |
| cehteh | has maemo a syslog? | 20:24 |
| lardman | cehteh: iirc only if you install the daemon | 20:24 |
| lcuk | oooh mobile internet isnt full internet | 20:24 |
| lardman | ksyslogd or similar | 20:24 |
| * lcuk feels cheated | 20:24 | |
| cehteh | ok | 20:24 |
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| cehteh | well i consider to port my C/C++ debugging lib to maemo, maybe its of use for someone :) | 20:25 |
| cehteh | at least for me to see how portable it is :) | 20:25 |
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| lcuk | how the hell can i speak to a real human at o2 | 20:25 |
| lcuk | do i need to sacrifice my first born? | 20:25 |
| lcuk | (he wont be happy) | 20:26 |
| zaheerm | lcuk, in sales or support? | 20:26 |
| lcuk | just someone from earth | 20:26 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: it's worse: you have to sacrifice two | 20:26 |
| lcuk | thats ok ive got a spare | 20:26 |
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| lardman | qwerty12: don't forget the goat | 20:26 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: it's worse: you have to sacrifice two and lardman | 20:26 |
| zaheerm | lcuk, i have a friend who owns am o2 store but not sure what o2 retail will be able to do for you :) | 20:26 |
| lcuk | crap | 20:27 |
| lardman | that is indeed bad | 20:27 |
| lcuk | :D they will send me a free text | 20:27 |
| lcuk | heh the dialing pad on the n900 in speaker mode can overload itself | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | I love some operator ads: "50 free SMS for just $10!" | 20:28 |
| lcuk | if you play it like a musical instrument | 20:28 |
| lcuk | musical fun! | 20:28 |
| lcuk | without needing to download anything | 20:28 |
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| lcuk | ive spent £1 making 1 25p call and then 1 free call. | 20:29 |
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| lcuk | FINALLY! | 20:35 |
| zaheerm | lcuk, human or robot? | 20:35 |
| lcuk | 30 minutes and i found a lovely human called kim | 20:36 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lcuk: Switched network, already? :p | 20:36 |
| lcuk | no :$ i chickened out | 20:36 |
| mikhas | odd, I reinstalled my scratchbox installation, and after adding nokia's token repo (+ fakeroot apt-get update) it says it cannot resolve the nokia-binaries deps. What am I missing? | 20:36 |
| Stskeeps | check your /etc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf | 20:37 |
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| crashanddie_ | lmao | 20:39 |
| crashanddie_ | my order on topman has been canceled | 20:39 |
| crashanddie_ | I call them, and the guy asks "May I ask why this is such a high quantity order?" | 20:39 |
| crashanddie_ | since when is 3 shirts, 3 pairs of shoes and a pair of jeans high quantity for a bloody internet retailer? It's not even £200! | 20:39 |
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| kynky | rofl | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Clearly terrorists have 6 legs. | 20:43 |
| * lardman spies a way to interrogate Google Latitude locations :) | 20:43 | |
| crashanddie_ | And he just asked for the 3rd time if I'm sure I live at the address I put on there. You bloody tool, if the EMV 3D check accepted the order, it means not only were my banking details correct, but I even confirmed with my bank I wanted to place the order | 20:44 |
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| crashanddie_ | SpeedEvil, no, 6 feet, but only 2 legs | 20:44 |
| lardman | crashanddie: your mistake was to shop at TopMan ;) | 20:44 |
| crashanddie_ | lardman, well they have cool stuff! | 20:44 |
| lardman | :) | 20:44 |
| crashanddie_ | and their sale makes it bloody inexpensive | 20:44 |
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| lardman | this is true | 20:44 |
| crashanddie_ | £10 for a pair of jeans? Hell yeah, bring it on baby | 20:45 |
| * lardman tries to avoid shopping | 20:45 | |
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| crashanddie_ | lardman, yeah, but I live on my own, and have to celebrate my raise :P | 20:45 |
| lardman | yeah, that sounds quite reasonable - long lunch tomorrow then... :) | 20:45 |
| crashanddie_ | you have a wife and a mortgage and stuff :P Plus you live in Bath :D | 20:45 |
| lardman | crashanddie: hmm, s/jeans/champagne and hookers | 20:45 |
| crashanddie_ | a pair of champagne? | 20:45 |
| lardman | yeah, they'll want some too won't they?! | 20:46 |
| crashanddie_ | "Waiter? I'll have a pair of champagne please." "Two bottles sir?" "No, just a pair" | 20:46 |
| lardman | :D | 20:47 |
| crashanddie_ | Reminds me of the Ukraine | 20:47 |
| crashanddie_ | [in a hotel] "I'm sorry, do you sell cigarettes?" "No sir, not anymore" "Oh come on, but you've even got prostitutes!" "Yes sir, at the bar" | 20:48 |
| Lupu | hehe | 20:49 |
| lardman | :) | 20:49 |
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| crashanddie_ | now the guy calls me to say the items are out of stock... | 20:50 |
| crashanddie_ | Fucking plonkers | 20:50 |
| crashanddie_ | "Do you still want to place your order?" <-- Are these guys actually trying to fail at business? | 20:50 |
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| RST38h | no, they are following a well known joke | 20:53 |
| crashanddie_ | which is? | 20:54 |
| RST38h | About a guy bragging that his approach to women is to ask "Should I fuck you?" | 20:54 |
| crashanddie_ | and? | 20:54 |
| RST38h | "But ain't you getting beaten up for that? -- Yea, usually. But I get laid often enough too." | 20:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Man, went through a dozen or so threads on Talk this morning, SNR has really gone in the can since I stopped updating regularly. | 21:10 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | freejazz missed you | 21:11 |
| RST38h | General: I pretty much stopped following | 21:13 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Dear freenode-connect, stop raping my client. Yours faithfully, qwerty12 | 21:18 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Btw, how do you control distance between items in Transmissing config dialog? | 21:18 |
| * RST38h sticks 'em into vbox, but the distance between them is too small | 21:19 | |
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| qwerty12_N900 | The distance between the items looks pretty much the same as it is in any other app with a dialog, TBH | 21:21 |
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| RST38h | hmm...mine is smaller | 21:22 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Screenshot? | 21:23 |
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| RST38h | I don't have one, yet | 21:25 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Gah, hit Ctrl + Shift + P, already :) | 21:25 |
| RST38h | It is a windows laptop, what CtrlShiftP? =) | 21:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should still work in the SDK. | 21:26 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | it's a hd key | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | ctrl-shift-x too | 21:28 |
| acidjazz | so n900 ships the 14th? | 21:28 |
| range | It does? | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, I mean, really, there's hardly a recognizable face left there. | 21:29 |
| acidjazz | thats the latest post on the maemo forum | 21:29 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 21:29 | |
| acidjazz | according to someone who called amazon amazon has them in stock and is waiting on nokia | 21:29 |
| sjgadsby | Where does Mail for Exchange store configuration data? | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | gconf? | 21:29 |
| sjgadsby | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I was suspecting that. I'd hoped it wouldn't be the case though. | 21:30 |
| qwerty12_N900 | GeneralAntilles: On Talk? True. It's just full of people who are upset about the N900 being a phone or the loonies who can't wait for it and feel the urge to start threads that end up spanning a shitton of pages just to tell us this | 21:30 |
| RST38h | Even worse | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, the "Why should I work for free?" thread is scary. | 21:31 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles the SNR has gone down to you cos people are no longer mentioning your name any more | 21:31 |
| RST38h | It is full of people who do not know what they are talking about | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N900 | And, of course, the idiots who join up just to say the N900 sucks and they've ordered another phone | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, and there's nobody left to correct them. | 21:31 |
| RST38h | And do not know that they do not know | 21:31 |
| Proteous | the n900 suckks SIDEKICK FOR LIFE!!! | 21:32 |
| RST38h | General: Well, that isn't much of a problem | 21:32 |
| Proteous | *COUGH* | 21:32 |
| RST38h | But having to read through all that clueless chatter is tiresome | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=370075&postcount=17 | 21:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles groans. | 21:32 | |
| Stskeeps | the positive side is that once all the freaks get their n900, constructive people will be back | 21:32 |
| frals | just read that aswell >_< | 21:33 |
| lcuk | the greeters might actually help :) | 21:33 |
| RST38h | Who is this guy and what the hell is his problem? | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Talk about clueless. | 21:33 |
| lcuk | its hrw | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, hahaha | 21:33 |
| RST38h | noooo | 21:33 |
| RST38h | no way | 21:33 |
| lcuk | shutup gan, just cos you've resigned from that job | 21:33 |
| lcuk | yeah rst | 21:33 |
| lcuk | hes not a nobody who knows nothing | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it's not hrw. | 21:34 |
| lcuk | sure? i was positive | 21:34 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: you calling me a freak? | 21:34 |
| w00t | :P | 21:34 |
| RST38h | Mental note: when I see hrw here, have to tell him to stop bitching, it looks bad for him | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/profile/view/hrw/ | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not a "marcinw", lcuk. :) | 21:34 |
| qwerty12_N900 | hrw has the username of hrw on Talk | 21:35 |
| lcuk | retracts statement | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Besides, how in the world could you confuse _hrw_ with THAT SHIT?! | 21:35 |
| * frals retracts lcuk | 21:35 | |
| RST38h | Ok, another marcin | 21:35 |
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| * RST38h always trusted into hrw, the marcinw guy is some impostor | 21:36 | |
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| lcuk | me too | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | besides that, bluetooth is entirely possible in SDK isn't it? :P | 21:36 |
| * lbt notes that marcinw is not a native speaker | 21:36 | |
| lcuk | apologies for mixing you up hwr | 21:36 |
| RST38h | qwerty: http://fms.komkon.org/screenshot00.png | 21:36 |
| RST38h | lbt: Neither is hrw, but that does not prevent him from being reasonable | 21:37 |
| *** hrw|gone is now known as hrw | 21:37 | |
| hrw | hi | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, nice. | 21:37 |
| hrw | marcinw is Marcin Wiacek - the guy behind Gammu | 21:38 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: I'm using wazd's theme but I would have to say they look the same | 21:38 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Hiya, hrw | 21:38 |
| lcuk | hi hrw, see above lol, sorry for mistaking you | 21:38 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Aren't distances between your buttons bigger? | 21:38 |
| hrw | lcuk: I also have Marcin as name ;D | 21:38 |
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| lcuk | yes and you also rarely post on tmo | 21:39 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: Hard to tell, but, yeah, I think they are - just a little. Lemme switch themes and check again | 21:39 |
| frals | ah, at last! more thanks then posts \o/ | 21:39 |
| * hrw goes to read that marcinw post | 21:39 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | Oh, sjgadsby, I've got a gconf-editor binary if you need it | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Impinging hardworking contributors in the community and Nokia in one post is not a good way to make friends. ;) | 21:40 |
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| sjgadsby | qwerty12_N900: Thanks, but I think I'm finding what I need using gconftool. I'll be in touch if I need your superior app though. | 21:41 |
| RST38h | Well, Nokia isn't making it good for the community's mental health | 21:41 |
| hrw | you know what? I understand Marcin | 21:42 |
| lbt | *nod* | 21:42 |
| RST38h | hrw: even that does not make him sound reasonable | 21:42 |
| hrw | thats other thing | 21:42 |
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| hrw | RST38h: read my posts from n8x0 developer program time | 21:43 |
| hrw | RST38h: the 'if you live in wrong part of europe we will ignore you' thing was present then | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: Ah, yes, now that I've switched theme, I can also see the bigger spacing. A sec - I'll look for the line | 21:43 |
| RST38h | hrw: I live in such a wrong part of Europe, that I am not even complaining | 21:44 |
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| Stskeeps | people need to see the difference between maemo devices and rest of nokia though.. | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | the mentality difference is important | 21:45 |
| * lbt glances at hrw's comment and goes to do some paid work for....erm.... a large finish company who make small electronic devices.... in the UK | 21:45 | |
| * w00t lols | 21:45 | |
| frals | haha | 21:45 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: remember that for some people n900 == phone not n900 == tablet | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: yes, i know | 21:46 |
| RST38h | lbt: Isn't it the end of workday? | 21:46 |
| lbt | it's not perfect... and I have been lucky | 21:46 |
| hrw | most of my complains will be related to n900==phone things | 21:46 |
| lbt | RST38h: not for me... | 21:46 |
| RST38h | hrw: may I ask why one should make this distinction? | 21:46 |
| w00t | hrw: and yet, i'm the exact opposite | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | but honestly.. complaining about BT support in SDK is a bit awkward | 21:46 |
| w00t | the only reason i'm buying an n900 is because i can use it as a phone, as well as a tablet | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | as far as i can tell, it is technically possible if you disable the host bluetooth impl | 21:47 |
| hrw | RST38h: when 770 was released it was definitelly not a phone. n8x0 just followed that and people were used that it is not a phone. | 21:47 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: that seems a bit awkward though | 21:47 |
| lcuk | i keep picking up my monitor and wondering why it doesnt respond when i tilt it | 21:47 |
| hrw | RST38h: n900 had to have just 3g modem inside (maemo summit 2008 talk). so it would still be tablet. | 21:47 |
| w00t | lcuk: throw it around the room | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: there's no other way to do it sanely otherwise except for qemu stuff like hrw's excellent work :P | 21:47 |
| w00t | it'll respond -- just not in the way you want | 21:47 |
| lcuk | no w00t it might hit my N900 | 21:48 |
| w00t | :( | 21:48 |
| RST38h | hrw: well, then it would not have a chance to get out of its niche | 21:48 |
| lcuk | or even worse, it might break my N900 | 21:48 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: any alternative sounds sane really | 21:48 |
| hrw | RST38h: but now when they added 3g modem for talk+data... people not from tablet world will start using it. And they will use it as a phone | 21:48 |
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| lbt | lcuk: do you keep touching your laptop screen too? I do. | 21:48 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lcuk: The N900 is like Superman | 21:48 |
| RST38h | hrw: isn't it good? | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: it did help with the way the phone is used.. it's 'just' a voice over 3g and IM over SMS addition | 21:48 |
| lcuk | lbt, my x41 is touchscreen (albeit pen based) | 21:48 |
| RST38h | more users etc | 21:48 |
| * lbt sniffs | 21:48 | |
| lcuk | its also got accelerometers | 21:49 |
| lcuk | but thats by the by | 21:49 |
| * lbt sniffs again | 21:49 | |
| w00t | hmm | 21:49 |
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| w00t | app suggestion: detect when being thrown, and make a sobbing noise when it hits something | 21:49 |
| lcuk | lbt, but pen based != perfect | 21:49 |
| lcuk | certainly for windowing OS | 21:49 |
| lcuk | it needs touch friendly os | 21:49 |
| SpeedEvil | w00t: Descending scream when droped | 21:49 |
| RST38h | SCREAM | 21:49 |
| SpeedEvil | w00t: getting louder as the fall increases | 21:49 |
| * lbt thinks if he knows one | 21:49 | |
| RST38h | NOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | w00t: oh yes. | 21:49 |
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| w00t | SpeedEvil: YES. | 21:49 |
| lcuk | but its gonna be painful using maemo, my arm wont like reaching to the top of the screen for everything | 21:49 |
| w00t | waaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh *thump* | 21:50 |
| w00t | I'd love that | 21:50 |
| w00t | even though I'd not make a habit of dropping my n900 | 21:50 |
| sjgadsby | What Fremantle SDK/tools package contains "strings" and how much trouble am I going to cause for myself by installing it on device? | 21:50 |
| RST38h | And when you power it down, it should say "NO, you DON'T!" | 21:50 |
| gnuton | Hi | 21:50 |
| lcuk | could it selectively spinup the harddrive to try and balance itself | 21:50 |
| lbt | hi gnuton | 21:50 |
| qwerty12_N900 | w00t: I wonder who'd test it when it came to promoting it from extras-testing... | 21:50 |
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| lcuk | and do the "ooh ahhhhh aooooooh" sound | 21:51 |
| w00t | RST38h: nah, selectively use lines from hal9000 | 21:51 |
| lcuk | before finally toppling off | 21:51 |
| fiferboy | hey gnuton | 21:51 |
| w00t | qwerty12_N900: haha. | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | when hitting, it starts making a cry like peter in family guy when he gets injured | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:51 |
| qwerty12_N900 | sjgadsby: binutils | 21:51 |
| gnuton | hei fiferboy.. | 21:52 |
| w00t | Stskeeps: hahaha. | 21:52 |
| hrw | RST38h: I know one thing. now I sometimes use two devices: E66 phone and N810 tablet. and tablet is just to watch some tv series on a go when phone covers mail (imapssl), pim (calendar/todo/contacts/syncing), games, rare web browsing, rare IM, sometimes photo which sometimes also mean MMS. n900 will have to replace both. | 21:52 |
| Robot101 | hrw: I just replaced my E66 with an N900 | 21:52 |
| sjgadsby | qwerty12_N900: Doh. That makes sense. Thanks! Any danger installing it on my N900? It doesn't break busybox? | 21:52 |
| Robot101 | hrw: IM and web browsing is a hell of a lot easier, so became less rare for sure... | 21:53 |
| RST38h | hrw: and it will | 21:53 |
| Robot101 | hrw: MMS is a fail, but otherwise everything else is better | 21:53 |
| Robot101 | I can even use my own damn headphones | 21:53 |
| Robot101 | \o/ | 21:53 |
| RST38h | hrw: n900 is worth using just for its unified messaging and address book | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | what RST38h said | 21:53 |
| hrw | Robot101: but not AD-44 controls ;( | 21:53 |
| lcuk | +1 | 21:53 |
| RST38h | hrw: although you will definitely miss the green button (tm) | 21:54 |
| qwerty12_N900 | sjgadsby: I've got it installed on mine and it did not break busybox for me | 21:54 |
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| hrw | RST38h: I will also miss AD-44 (or AD-54 for n900 due to 3.5mm) music controls | 21:54 |
| sjgadsby | qwerty12_N900: Keen, thanks! I'm just extra cautious without public firmware to fall back upon. | 21:54 |
| lcuk | hrw is there a technical reason or are the commands being sent, but ignored? | 21:54 |
| Robot101 | hrw: trade-off for video output I think... | 21:54 |
| hrw | lcuk: I think that it is just software (kernel driver) | 21:55 |
| Robot101 | isn't that wire used for video out on the N900? | 21:55 |
| hrw | lcuk: you have headset button working with n900 - right? | 21:55 |
| lcuk | headset button? | 21:55 |
| lcuk | i never got official headphones | 21:55 |
| lardman | nor me | 21:55 |
| hrw | lcuk: take ones from n8x0 then | 21:55 |
| RST38h | hrw: Nokia sells 3-4 types of BT headphones | 21:56 |
| hrw | HS-47 headset | 21:56 |
| lardman | borken for me | 21:56 |
| lcuk | errr those got broke years ago | 21:56 |
| lardman | :) | 21:56 |
| RST38h | hrw: Just buy a pair you like and use it | 21:56 |
| BluesLee | how are the stand by time son the n900? | 21:56 |
| hrw | RST38h: FM radio require headphones for antenna | 21:56 |
| RST38h | hrw: yea, but will you use the radio? | 21:56 |
| hrw | RST38h: I do a lot | 21:56 |
| * RST38h does not have much use for the radio | 21:56 | |
| RST38h | ok | 21:56 |
| lcuk | BluesLee, "how girl get pragnent?" | 21:57 |
| hrw | RST38h: I like to listen to radio when I am abroad (if I find English speaking one) | 21:57 |
| hrw | RST38h: it also gives me newer songs to listen then ones on phone | 21:57 |
| RST38h | vagalume! | 21:57 |
| BluesLee | lcuk: give me some numbers please | 21:57 |
| lcuk | ahhh i just deciphered that | 21:58 |
| hrw | RST38h: vagalume == 3G data == costs | 21:58 |
| RST38h | btw, vagalume still not ported to n900 =) | 21:58 |
| lcuk | i dunno i cant leave it alone long enough to fade out through stand by | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | vagalume needs to be ported. | 21:58 |
| RST38h | hrw: oh | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, isn't it a Star? | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | i got so desperate i set up upnp. | 21:58 |
| RST38h | General: does it have any reliation to being ported? :) | 21:58 |
| RST38h | Maemo Mapper is also a star... | 21:58 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h and Stskeeps: Look at the Gitorious page | 21:58 |
| qwerty12_N900 | for Vagalume | 21:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, so is FBReader. :( | 21:59 |
| lcuk | BluesLee, my phone happily sits and is usable every single time i need it, but i do exactly the same with this as i have done with every other phone ever | 21:59 |
| hrw | vagalume basically just need recompile to be usable. then someone to change settings to finger friendly | 21:59 |
| RST38h | hrw: Pretty much the only radio I ever listen to is PBS, but it is US only :) | 21:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stars program isn't 100% successful. . . . | 21:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, PBS? :P | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N900: ah, good, it's being worked on | 21:59 |
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| RST38h | Sorry, NPR | 21:59 |
| * RST38h always messes these two up | 21:59 | |
| BluesLee | lcuk: hmm | 22:00 |
| Jaffa | tbf: I'm not violating Facebook's TOS as I'm not fetching phone numbers and full addresses from Facebook. Nor am I proxying the user's creednetials. Whoever told you I was was talking bbollocks. | 22:00 |
| lcuk | BluesLee, hmm? | 22:00 |
| BluesLee | GeneralAntilles: do you have standby times of the n900? | 22:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | BluesLee, Nokia has the numbers in the specs PDF. | 22:00 |
| BluesLee | GeneralAntilles: okay, will search it | 22:01 |
| lcuk | does anyone just leave their pre prod phone alone | 22:01 |
| lcuk | i know i dont | 22:01 |
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| tbf | Jaffa: obviously. | 22:02 |
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| * qwerty12_N900 gives Jaffa knuckledusters: release the fury! | 22:02 | |
| greenfly | lcuk: heh not here | 22:02 |
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| * lardman passes over the nunchuks | 22:03 | |
| tbf | Jaffa: actually i wondered when you added such stuff | 22:03 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N900: Rar | 22:03 |
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| hrw | Jaffa: how Palm Pre handle facebook stuff? | 22:03 |
| BluesLee | GeneralAntilles: do you have a linkto that pdf? | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | BluesLee, not handy. 2-4 days was the number they quoted, I believe. | 22:04 |
| Jaffa | hrw: I don't know. Not investigated. Imagine it's a deal between Palm and Facebook. | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | BluesLee, keep in mind that nobody here has production firmware. | 22:04 |
| tbf | Jaffa: but as some guy highlighted me and claimed i'd have claimed such stuff i wanted to drop you that information about FB TOS | 22:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | So any number we give you may change when the device is released. | 22:04 |
| tbf | Jaffa: well, but as it seems this madness is old news to you | 22:04 |
| tbf | hrw: i have confirmed information that there is a public API and another API for companies which pay | 22:04 |
| BluesLee | GeneralAntilles: you are right, but 2-4 days doesnt sound too much | 22:05 |
| hrw | ok, good to know | 22:05 |
| hrw | anyway I do not use FB too much | 22:05 |
| lcuk | is facebook good or evil | 22:05 |
| Robot101 | mostly evil | 22:05 |
| tbf | so much about owning your data in the cloud | 22:05 |
| Robot101 | like google its an advertising platform, but google do it by taking you to other people's useful information | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | BluesLee, it's a laptop in your pocket, not a phone. | 22:06 |
| lcuk | mostly Robot101? you mean there are redeeming qualities? | 22:06 |
| Robot101 | web searches, videos, images, e-mails, XMPP, etc | 22:06 |
| Robot101 | facebook locks all of those things in | 22:06 |
| kirma | blueslee: recent blog post on planet maemo had some idle measurements on ogg playback length post | 22:06 |
| Robot101 | and offers a demeaningly restricted API to get in and access the info | 22:06 |
| BluesLee | kirma: yeah, about 93 hours | 22:07 |
| tbf | Robot101: well, FB tries to justify those limitations with protecting users from data harvesters | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | tbf, unless they have money. ;) | 22:07 |
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| kirma | I charge my phone every night anyway, so it's not really so bad. I'm more concerned about background applications sneakily eating the battery in an hour or something | 22:08 |
| tbf | Robot101: and if you consider how easy non-geek fb users are on taking quizzes and such, i am 30% tempted to believe them. | 22:08 |
| kirma | (mostly referring to web pages) | 22:08 |
| lcuk | kirma, ive run some sneaky apps and ive never managed to drain my battery in an hour | 22:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | kirma, I got about 6 hours at ~70% CPU with the screen off the other day. | 22:08 |
| kirma | well, that's good :) | 22:09 |
| kirma | but even 4-6 hours is bad user experience if user doesn't comprehend what was causing it, and nothing alerted him about it... | 22:10 |
| kirma | and typically, he could have been without that drain. | 22:10 |
| tbf | Robot101: would suck if every anonymous harvester would get my high quality address data, just 'cause some friend takes a quiz | 22:10 |
| Robot101 | tbf: right | 22:10 |
| tbf | Robot101: well, but yes: FB could fix that | 22:10 |
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| cehteh | /lib/ld-linux.so.3: No such file or directory ... mhm | 22:15 |
| * lcuk thinks about liqbase dev using the shortest possible apt-get line from stock | 22:17 | |
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| RST38h | Turkish spam. | 22:21 |
| RST38h | Mhm. | 22:22 |
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| hrw | bye | 22:25 |
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| sjgadsby | Select all, Move threads, Off-Topic, Ok | 22:44 |
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| frals | deffo | 22:45 |
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| GAN900 | Damn SMS light is flashing, but I don't have any new ones. | 22:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | sjgadsby, lol. | 22:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I really don't like the discount program being handled through Forum Nokia. | 23:01 |
| wiretapped | http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/09/exclusive-google-has-acquired-gizmo5/ | 23:01 |
| RST38h | expected | 23:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ouch | 23:01 |
| greenfly | hopefully this will mean they will open up free SIP gvoice calls for more than 3 mins at a time | 23:02 |
| greenfly | if so, then we won't need a special google voice plugin for the n900 contact list | 23:02 |
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| kami | hi | 23:06 |
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| Shapeshifter | damn... the micro of my mobile went busted | 23:10 |
| sjgadsby | marcinw is Frank Wagner with commas in place of hyphens. | 23:10 |
| Shapeshifter | n900 should get released. I want one. | 23:10 |
| Shapeshifter | >.> | 23:10 |
| greenfly | heh | 23:10 |
| Shapeshifter | don't care if the software is buggy | 23:10 |
| Shapeshifter | gimme ;) | 23:11 |
| qwerty12_N900 | sjgadsby: And we all know of how he went into hibernation in the end... | 23:11 |
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| wazd | "HD2 has 1ghz processor and 448MB ram, why not the n900? " jeez... | 23:14 |
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| greenfly | heh, could be worse, "HD2 has windows mobile, why not the n900?" :) | 23:15 |
| Shapeshifter | eww, it's windows | 23:15 |
| * qwerty12_N900 stares at greenfly in shock | 23:15 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | The sad thing is, I wouldn't past someone to actually post that | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N900 | +put it | 23:16 |
| greenfly | I'm sure the post would also be in the form of some threat | 23:16 |
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| greenfly | ie. "Nokia is missing out on a huge market opportunity here!" etc etc | 23:16 |
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| Shapeshifter | but yeah, I guess greenfly has a point in that devices are getting faster by the minute | 23:17 |
| javispedro | why, oh, why every day there's news about the DDP I get sick. And I mean literally. | 23:17 |
| Shapeshifter | so. how about releasing the n900 -.- | 23:17 |
| Shapeshifter | everyone wants to buy one. | 23:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, oh, they have. | 23:18 |
| prometoys | hi, does anyboddy use git on the device (n900/freemantle)? | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, fanoush's point in that thread is interesting. | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not all of that may be available to the user. | 23:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | prometoys, lcuk does, I believe. | 23:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, why sick? | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | No warranty, NDA agreement, and obnoxious credit card issues make the DPP pretty damn irritating. | 23:19 |
| prometoys | GeneralAntilles, but there isn't an official package, or? | 23:19 |
| qwerty12_N900 | GeneralAntilles: *facepalm* | 23:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | prometoys, think it's in the Tools repo. | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, the whole process on DPP end-to-end has been unpleasant. | 23:20 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: I really mean literally sick. I wake up with quite high fever this morning. I fear H1N1, but then again I'm still alive so it can't be that isn't it? :) | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, lol. | 23:20 |
| serenity | btw battery: is there any progress in the enduser-device? | 23:20 |
| Shapeshifter | uhm... wha'ts DPP | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, hope you feel better. :P | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, the N900 discount program. | 23:20 |
| lcuk | prometoys, its still in the diablo-extras repo | 23:20 |
| javispedro | I do, I'm high on (legal) drugs now | 23:20 |
| Shapeshifter | excuse my ignorance | 23:20 |
| Shapeshifter | GeneralAntilles: ahh. | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/DPP/DDP/ | 23:20 |
| greenfly | what mechanism determines which packages that are in a repo show up in the GUI package manager? is it something like Ubuntu's Add/Remove Programs system? | 23:20 |
| lcuk | just add the repo, apt-get update; apt-get install git-core; remove repo | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | greenfly, user/* section | 23:21 |
| Shapeshifter | well... I don't care really, I would pay the full price. | 23:21 |
| hcarrega | any new for release date? | 23:21 |
| javispedro | just to see if there was something I needed to do about the DDP but I see that's not the case. | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | hcarrega, should be very soon. | 23:21 |
| greenfly | GeneralAntilles: ahh, thanks | 23:21 |
| hcarrega | arg | 23:21 |
| qwerty12_N900 | GeneralAntilles: I won't be ordering for a while, so I hope it doesn't get worse... | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | hcarrega, the DDP people just opened up for ordering. | 23:21 |
| hcarrega | GeneralAntilles: just preorder | 23:21 |
| Shapeshifter | hcarrega: like end of november I think | 23:21 |
| hcarrega | in october | 23:21 |
| Shapeshifter | well, s/I think/I guess/ | 23:21 |
| hcarrega | fnac online says december | 23:21 |
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| hcarrega | i wish not true | 23:22 |
| hcarrega | if so | 23:22 |
| hcarrega | i prefer to send out of the bridge | 23:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | hcarrega, Newegg says the 14th. | 23:22 |
| hcarrega | i will w8 | 23:22 |
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| prometoys | lcuk ok, I just wget the deb :) | 23:22 |
| hcarrega | its all ready pay | 23:22 |
| hcarrega | thanks any way | 23:23 |
| lcuk | fair enough | 23:23 |
| javispedro | at least the price is lower than what I expected. | 23:23 |
| javispedro | no taxes seems? not confirmed though. | 23:23 |
| javispedro | (why I believe I'll need to pray for good luck on customs) | 23:23 |
| * lcuk is good | 23:24 | |
| javispedro | :) | 23:24 |
| qwerty12_N900 | EvilQwerty will be praying for javispedro to get hit with a high customs tax | 23:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | price is extremely reasonable | 23:25 |
| Shapeshifter | it's now at 718USD / 478 euros here in switzerland. | 23:25 |
| javispedro | lcuk: hey, good luck with the UX day | 23:26 |
| Shapeshifter | which isn't much. The iphone 3g 32gb sells at 1200USD | 23:26 |
| serenity | cheapest price in germany are 499€ | 23:26 |
| serenity | s/are/is | 23:26 |
| lcuk | javispedro, you not coming? | 23:26 |
| Shapeshifter | serenity: damn the 19% tax >.> | 23:26 |
| Shapeshifter | lucky me got 7.5 | 23:26 |
| javispedro | lcuk: I plan to attend, if there are no more DDP news and more sick days :) | 23:26 |
| serenity | Shapeshifter: you name it | 23:26 |
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| prometoys | GeneralAntilles, thanks for remembering about the tools repro, I forget it every time | 23:27 |
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| lcuk | ddp? | 23:27 |
| lcuk | ahhh | 23:27 |
| javispedro | na, just joking | 23:27 |
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| javispedro | I saw the N900 here at 400€, but then, Western Union >:) | 23:27 |
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| serenity | i hope on release it will be <450€ | 23:28 |
| javispedro | IMHO that is bit wishful. 450€ around end of year, maybe.. | 23:29 |
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| serenity | javispedro: that's the same: release and end of year ;) | 23:29 |
| javispedro | ah, well. | 23:30 |
| javispedro | I think the release is near | 23:30 |
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| Shapeshifter | I wonder how long one must wait who didn't preorder | 23:31 |
| Shapeshifter | well, I think once they release the units will be shipped pretty fast | 23:31 |
| Shapeshifter | those production lines are damn fast | 23:31 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Nokia should put on some festive tunes in that case. such as: "Santa Claus is coming to moms" and "Jingle Balls" | 23:32 |
| javispedro | 2 months and already thinking on him? | 23:32 |
| javispedro | let the poor guy rest dammit | 23:32 |
| javispedro | ok, ok, not exactly 2 months. | 23:33 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: you haven't prepared your easter decoration yet?? :o | 23:33 |
| Shapeshifter | it's only 5 months! | 23:33 |
| Shapeshifter | let alone chrismas, it's almost over already | 23:33 |
| Shapeshifter | isn't it. | 23:33 |
| javispedro | yes, respitory masks will be this years decoration | 23:33 |
| Shapeshifter | talking about chrismas 2010 here. | 23:33 |
| javispedro | :) | 23:33 |
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| dmj7262 | I had a chance to play with some guy's moto Droid just now. | 23:37 |
| javispedro | did you burn your hand through the exhaust pipe that droid has? | 23:37 |
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| dmj7262 | exhaust pipe? | 23:37 |
| javispedro | that ugly striped finish on the backside which they say gives a retro feel | 23:37 |
| dmj7262 | I kept trying to figure out where the weird twitching was coming from | 23:37 |
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| dmj7262 | It won't respond to fingernails. | 23:38 |
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| dmj7262 | so you have to use your finger pads. | 23:39 |
| dmj7262 | which are less precise. | 23:40 |
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| dmj7262 | the screen was nice and big and crisp though. | 23:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | dmj726, did you find the slide edges sharp? | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | The dummy unit I tried at Best Buy kept trying to cut my index fingers. | 23:42 |
| dmj7262 | didn't cut me | 23:42 |
| kami | question for the german people: on which shop have you preordered? | 23:42 |
| javispedro | hey, another troll on tmo! | 23:42 |
| dmj7262 | The keyboard felt squishy though | 23:42 |
| javispedro | should I post on that thread? will we get commemorative photos? | 23:42 |
| * qwerty12_N900 says "Hi" | 23:42 | |
| Stskeeps | who's 'cool900'? :P | 23:42 |
| kami | hi qwerty | 23:43 |
| wazd | droid has 848x480 screen. Why not n900? | 23:43 |
| javispedro | 8 pixels is like, 0.8mm | 23:43 |
| wazd | I'm kidding :D | 23:43 |
| dmj7262 | 48 pixels actually. | 23:43 |
| javispedro | but if you want to open another thread, go ahead :) | 23:43 |
| wazd | yeah, 48 ;) | 23:43 |
| * javispedro is on meds | 23:44 | |
| javispedro | well, no, no excuse for being idiot | 23:44 |
| dmj7262 | actually that probably makes up the entire size difference on the screen | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: perfect time for making a debian package with stub libGLESv2 and libEGL, using __attribute__((weak)) for all API symbols then | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | ;p | 23:44 |
| javispedro | what WHAT?= | 23:44 |
| javispedro | what for? | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | building against gles api without uploading closed source libs :P | 23:45 |
| javispedro | ah | 23:45 |
| dmj7262 | Any clue why the Droid wouldn't respond to my fingernail, err organic stylus? | 23:45 |
| javispedro | good point :P | 23:45 |
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| wazd | does droid looks that retro-brick in real life too? | 23:45 |
| dmj7262 | yes | 23:45 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: wouldn't you know if mesa has at least the symbols declared? | 23:46 |
| javispedro | s/declared/exported | 23:46 |
| javispedro | I think EGL support was fairly complete | 23:46 |
| wazd | I'm really really shocked bout that moto failure :( | 23:46 |
| dmj7262 | what failure? | 23:46 |
| wazd | droid design | 23:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | dmj726, capacitive. | 23:46 |
| dmj7262 | ah. It doesn't look ugly persay, but angular brink does come to mind. | 23:47 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: it's not complete in GLES/GLES2 | 23:47 |
| wazd | capacitive displays will become precise and stylus friendly someday | 23:47 |
| dmj7262 | ah, so capacitive only responds to skin, not nail? | 23:47 |
| javispedro | well, I guess no difference with your weak monster DSO | 23:47 |
| javispedro | then. | 23:47 |
| wazd | and resistive touchscreens will die :) | 23:48 |
| javispedro | (note that all I know from DSOs on GNU system was from quicly eyeing Ulrich's paper on it so ..) | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: no libGLESv2 in mesa at all :/ | 23:48 |
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| javispedro | ah, bad news then. ta. | 23:49 |
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| javispedro | h. | 23:50 |
| javispedro | pardon my ignorance, but I was wondering.. why weak? | 23:50 |
| dmj7262 | there was also some funky notifications drawer I kept pulling down from th top of the screen | 23:50 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps^^ | 23:51 |
| lardman | dmj726: Android? | 23:51 |
| dmj7262 | yeah | 23:51 |
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| lardman | yeah, some things are quite cool | 23:51 |
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| lardman | I like the throwing away desktop shortcuts | 23:51 |
| * qwerty12_N900 sets mode +b on lardman | 23:51 | |
| lardman | sorry | 23:52 |
| lardman | always things to learn from ;) | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: that or actual stubs | 23:52 |
| dmj7262 | I didn't notice that. | 23:52 |
| javispedro | ah, so no reason :) | 23:52 |
| dmj7262 | I had a hard time finding the url bar for the browser | 23:52 |
| lardman | yeah, hold then drag to the bottom where it says something like "rubbish" then they turn red and vanish | 23:52 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: well I cannot think of anything better right now.. so go ahead I say. | 23:53 |
| dmj7262 | managed to find it but have no idea how. | 23:53 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: btw, what about headers? | 23:53 |
| javispedro | I guess Khronos ones are valid for uploading into the autobuilder? | 23:53 |
| javispedro | s/valid/free enough | 23:53 |
| dmj7262 | The app thingy had lots of apps | 23:53 |
| lardman | mine less so as it's QVGA | 23:54 |
| dmj7262 | qvga? | 23:54 |
| dmj7262 | you mean 320x240? | 23:54 |
| lardman | screen res - they don;t show apps that don't specifically say they can work in that res | 23:54 |
| lardman | yeah | 23:54 |
| dmj7262 | that's not cool | 23:54 |
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| lardman | well the res works fine, shame they hold back the apps | 23:55 |
| lardman | but hopefully people will have to go back and update their apps now | 23:55 |
| dmj7262 | I thought Andoid phones were all hvga or higher? | 23:55 |
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| lardman | no, the newer ones can have different res | 23:55 |
| dmj7262 | what phone is that? | 23:55 |
| lardman | htc tattoo | 23:55 |
| lardman | my wife's | 23:55 |
| dmj7262 | ah | 23:55 |
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| dmj7262 | Let me guess, you want the n900? | 23:55 |
| lardman | I've got one | 23:56 |
| * dmj7262 is jealous | 23:56 | |
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| lardman | but still the Android phone has some cool features | 23:56 |
| lardman | and some not so cool ones | 23:56 |
| dmj7262 | what do you like/dislike | 23:56 |
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| lardman | I do like the Google integration (as that's what she uses); the desktop app stuff is cool, touchscreen works better than on N900 | 23:57 |
| lardman | I don't like the lack of choice and lack of integration of non-Google stuff | 23:57 |
| dmj7262 | what do you mean lack of choice? | 23:57 |
| lardman | not fond of the random menus you have to go into, not very intuitive imo | 23:58 |
| lardman | well you can't have MSN integrated, you have to download an app to use it | 23:58 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: (answering myself) Khronos headers are "GSI Free Software License B " which is X11, and they seems to have minor diffs with Imagintion's. So they should be enough. | 23:58 |
| lardman | whereas with the N8x0/N900 it just works in the same built-in app | 23:58 |
| frals | this glade and pygtk is pretty nice... god i like when i dont have to code gui stuff :D | 23:58 |
| dmj7262 | Here's an idea! Android phone with Debian userland! | 23:59 |
| lardman | dmj726: just copy the good ideas and move on I reckon ;) | 23:59 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: also, if you're interested, I found yesterday a tool to generate stubs from parsing the gl.h header (actual remote stubs). May be a bit overkill for what you want to do, but if you're interested... | 23:59 |
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