IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-11-09

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moo__I tried to build quassel for N90000:09
moo__there is no QSystemTray (or whatever it was called) class00:09
moo__should I get rid of it completely or is there some "corresponding functionality" for Fremantle?00:09
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johnxxmoo__, you want to put an icon in the "status area" ?00:10
moo__if it does not pose too much problem00:10
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qwerty12_N810Nix made a Notification Area plugin for the status menu that brings that functionality back00:12
johnxxmoo__, I think there's something in the development guide about writing status area plugins (or whatever they're called)00:12
johnxxnm, listen to qwerty12_N810 instead :)00:13
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: what, where? :P00:14
moo__qwerty12_N810: Is it direct drop-in replacement for Qt's systray?00:14
qwerty12_N810moo__: nm, I'm talking out of my ass. I didn't realise you were talking about the actual build process00:14
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qwerty12_N810+/source/ in that URL would help, I guess00:15
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gilles_i'm a happy owner of a n80000:15
gilles_and now i've installed mer00:16
* Stskeeps passes qwerty12_N810 a weed-laced cookie00:16
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qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: _|Nix|_ may prefer it, instead =)00:17
gilles_but i don't see many apps00:17
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: just made my life a lot easier :P00:18
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gilles_where can i find repositories compatible with mer ?00:19
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: I'm actually regretting removing Transmission's tray icon option...00:19
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pupnik_gilles_: compile what you like00:22
johnxxgilles_, lots of ubuntu packages are somewhat workable. you can install with apt-get00:24
johnxxbut, not a lot of maemo packages are there quite yet00:24
gilles_explain me why i see only a dozen of availables apps00:25
gilles_why there is no mplayer, transmission, pidgin ...00:26
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johnxxgilles_, because we haven't moved them over to mer yet. we're working on the foundation, not putting in the highest level stuff quite yet00:27
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gilles_ok so whats apps are available ?00:28
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lbtgilles_: if you'd like to see :
gilles_it seems application manager dont show much00:34
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gilles_i've found kde for mer00:34
lbtnope, that's 'cos no-one is helping test and move them to the app mgr00:34
lbtkde for mer?00:35
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lbtyou can apt-get install anything from ubuntu... that doesn't mean it's a good idea ;)00:35
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gilles_copy and paste dont work very well00:41
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gilles_i cant open your link00:42
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gilles_can you send me a list of working mer repos ?00:43
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, you'll enjoy this:
GeneralAntillescrashanddie_, yeah, saw that.00:45
GeneralAntillesVery interesting.00:45
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crashanddie_GeneralAntilles, then this one:
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jeremiahHes and Apple fanboi00:53
jeremiahhe is an Apple fanboi00:53
jeremiahis what I meant to say00:53
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johnxxgilles_, the working mer repos are the ones shipped with mer for right now00:58
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gilles_how to add testing and unstable repos ?00:59
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johnxxgilles_, not on mer right now, but I think if you make a copy of the "stable" sources .list and change the "Stable" in the URL to "Devel" you might see some testing stuff01:01
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dreamer_should nokia-binaries and nokia-apps install cleaninly on the X86 target?01:18
jeremiahdreamer_: You mean from the repos?01:19
jeremiahOr are you building from scratch?01:19
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jeremiahAnd did you agree to the EULA?01:20
dreamer_from the repos, I forgot to type fakeroot before my apt-get install01:21
dreamer_and apt-get remove nokia-binaries only removes the meta package01:21
dreamer_is there a way to fix that or do I need to reinstall?01:21
jeremiahapt-get update01:21
jeremiahshould be enough01:21
jeremiahAre you setting up the SDK?01:22
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dreamer_but that doesn't remove the packages that were incorrectly installed from not specifying fakeroot01:22
jeremiahdreamer_: true, but there should be none of those.01:22
jeremiahAs you were not root01:22
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dreamer_they were still marked as installed even without fakeroot01:24
dreamer_I've ran into that issue a few times01:25
jeremiahhave you run apt-get -f install?01:25
jeremiahTry that, then see what messages you get.01:25
dreamer_btw, when should fake root be used?01:25
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dreamer_I already wiped it and am reinstalling it01:26
mikhasdreamer_, you could always start over with a new target01:26
johnxxdreamer_, when you run an application that thinks it needs to be root01:26
dreamer_they both install to the same path though, fakeroot doesn't target a different path?01:26
jeremiahdreamer_: well, fakeroot generally gest called with dpkg-buildpackage.01:26
jeremiahwhen you want to be root on the device it is better to do sudo gainroot01:27
jeremiahfakeroot is just a library wrapper.01:28
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johnxxdreamer_, ah. it's related to 'root' in the sense of 'uid 0' not in the sense of a new / (or chroot)01:29
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dreamer_johnxx: thanks, that clarified it :)01:30
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dreamer_I've used it in debian before, but didn't fully understand it01:31
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pupnik  nice looking universal charger for phone/cam li-ion batteries - universal, designed in austria02:09
pupniki meant uni-power source02:10
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zaheerm-lpjust tried to upload something to autobuilder btu can't even see it in build queue02:27
zaheerm-lpis the autobuilder working?02:28
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zaheerm-lpaah it built already :)02:29
dreamer_i'm trying to get a python app running that requires pygame, I already installed python-pygame, but if I start a python console and type import pygame It can't be found, anyone know if i've gota tweak how its called to be found?02:30
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zaheerm-lpdreamer_, in sbox or on device?02:33
zaheerm-lpuse python2.502:35
zaheerm-lpnot python02:35
zaheerm-lpwhen running the app02:35
zaheerm-lptime for me to sleep...02:35
dreamer_are there 2 versions in sbox?02:35
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dreamer_enjoy ;)02:36
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jeremiahDo we need a Mamona?02:42
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GeneralAntillesjeremiah, hum?02:45
jeremiahWell, there is this Maemo clone, called Mamona at Gitorious02:46
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jeremiahI don't understand why02:46
jeremiahI mean, is open and we have mer.02:46
jeremiahSo why did they fork?02:46
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lcuk3jeremiah, mamona existed before mer.02:47
Robot101jeremiah: Mamona is old, maybe even older than Mer...02:47
GeneralAntillesWAAAY before Mer.02:47
GeneralAntillesYears older than Mer.02:47
lcuk3the question is why did mer not use it :P02:47
jeremiahlcuk3: Ah, okay02:47
jeremiahI had no idea.02:47
GeneralAntillesBecause it diverges WAY away from Maemo.02:47
lcuk3hi Robot101 \o02:47
GeneralAntillesThey kind of went off into left field.02:47
Robot101lcuk3: ahoy02:47
GeneralAntillesMer aims to stick as close to Maemo as is sane.02:48
jeremiahAnd never came back.02:48
lcuk3you saw my post rob?02:48
GeneralAntillesMamona is mostly dead in the water, it seems.02:48
GeneralAntillesE17 sucks, too. ;)02:48
jeremiahlcuk3: I saw your post and stop calling me rob.02:48
lcuk3lol jeremiah :P02:48
jeremiahAnother fork?02:48
lcuk3mmm gen, last i heard it wasnt entirely dead02:49
lcuk3there are still projects using it02:49
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GeneralAntillesIt's mostly dead.02:50
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, Enlightenment.02:50
GeneralAntillesNobody really uses it.02:50
GeneralAntillesVery few people contribute to it.02:50
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jeremiahGeneralAntilles: Ah, okay.02:50
Robot101lcuk3: I tend to avoid work mail on weekends, but yes, I saw a couple mails from you :)02:50
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Robot101lcuk3: will get the ball rolling in the morning02:50
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* lcuk3 nods was expecting 9am :)02:51
lcuk3i actually meant tho :)02:51
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Robot101lcuk3: ohhh, cool :)02:52
infobotflashing is, like,
* Robot101 doesn't get on well with web forums so doesn't follow tmo in detail02:52
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lcuk3lol GeneralAntilles doesnt either, but hes addicted to tmo ;)02:52
GeneralAntillesI'm on checking Community/General/Maemo 6 once in the morning.02:53
GeneralAntillesNothing much interesting there.02:53
GeneralAntillesI seem to have broken the compulsion to load every new thread.02:53
Robot101should get an NNTP gateway02:53
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Robot101then I'd do better02:54
lcuk3the greeters will do that for you :)02:54
lcuk3anyway, im offski ill speak to you in a few hours rob \o gnite02:54
* ShadowJK wants a nntp gateway02:54
GeneralAntillesTalk sucks.02:55
GeneralAntillesIt's full of trolls and idiots.02:55
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Macerthe can opener was invented 48 yeasr after the can03:01
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johnxxhey GeneralAntilles. did you ever get your beagleboard to behave?03:24
pupnikGeneralAntilles: you mean in irc you are used to them? :)03:24
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GeneralAntillesjohnxx, haven't touched it in a while.03:26
johnxxis it the revC or a revB?03:26
GeneralAntillesjohnxx, uboot and such were behaving03:26
GeneralAntillesbut I didn't have a useful rootfs at the time.03:26
GeneralAntillespupnik, here they're less numerous. ;)03:26
johnxxah, bummer. that's 128MB RAM isn't it?03:26
GeneralAntillespupnik, and here I can bring the banhammer if I really need to. ;)03:27
GeneralAntillesjohnxx, yes.03:27
johnxxthough anyways, I figured you might get a kick out of this: I was thinking about sticking beagleboard into the base of an imac g4 along with enough laptop batteries to keep it running unplugged for a while03:28
GeneralAntillesjohnxx, I considered doing that with one of my Samsungs for a while.03:28
GeneralAntillesProblem is the framebuffer limit. :\03:29
johnxxframebufer limit? ah, in 3D mode?03:29
GeneralAntillesEr, DVI transceiver limit, I should say.03:29
GeneralAntilles1280x720 being incredibly optimistic and all that.03:29
johnxxI was thinking 15" imac03:30
GeneralAntillesThat'd be slick.03:30
johnxxomap3 seems optimized to hit 800x480, so I figure even 1024x768 is pushing it03:30
GeneralAntillesHow're you gonna hook up the LCD, though?03:30
pupnikid like a broken NEXTslab03:30
johnxxLVDS off the revC or get a new panel and run dvi-d up the neck03:31
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johnxxit'd make a fantastic kitchen computer03:32
GeneralAntillesI wish somebody would stick one of those ultra high DPI laptop panels into a standalone case.03:32
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johnxxshouldn't be hard to physically put it *in* there,03:33
johnxxbut lvds -> dvi isn't quite as trivial03:33
GeneralAntillesThe one conclusion I've come to watching Touch Booker/Beagle Board/SmartQ/whatever-cool-hardware-that-doesn't-have-decent-software is that it's really nice having vendor support.03:35
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GeneralAntillesOr Mer, eventually. ;)03:36
GeneralAntillesI've discovered that I'm not really the type of person who wants to spend a whole lot of time screwing around with bootloaders.03:36
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johnxxahahaha...Mer wouldn't be nearly as far along without nokia and ubuntu03:38
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GeneralAntillesI wonder why Always Innovating and Smart Devices are still screwing around trying to shoehorn full distros into their hardware.03:38
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johnxxevery piece of our code that's not upstream worries me03:38
johnxxI thought debian would be an ok desktop too, circa ~1.5 years ago03:39
GeneralAntillesThey need to stop wasting their time and money on one-off shit and back up Mer.03:39
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johnxxwell, I feel that way of course too :)03:39
GeneralAntillesWith a relatively modest amount of effort they could actually have something slick.03:40
johnxxAFAIK, mer is (one of) the first mobile distros to have learned the lessons of the "from scratch linux" guys03:40
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johnxx1) pick an upstream that mostly works 2) be compatible with it03:41
johnxxah, and 3) Know when to stop optimizing for space/memory savings03:44
* GeneralAntilles likes to hear people justifying Android's architecture with that argument.03:46
johnxxspace/memory savings?03:46
GeneralAntillesI'm envisioning some pretty fun things this time next year.03:46
johnxxlot of good it did them03:46
johnxxit's more hungry than maemo503:46
GeneralAntillesHaving to fit it on a "phone"03:46
GeneralAntilles'course, Nokia managed to ship a real Linux stack on less than half the hardware in 2005. . . .03:47
johnxxyup, and one of the biggest memory hogs of maemo4 seems to be hildon-desktop03:47
johnxxI honestly don't think maemo5 h-d is much (any?) heavier than maemo4 h-d03:48
johnxx(in terms of memory footprint)03:48
GeneralAntillesWhy would it be?03:48
GeneralAntillesArguably it's got fewer applets to handle by default. . . .03:48
johnxxwell, for starters it's actually doing more stuff03:48
GeneralAntillesAh, right, architecture changes.03:48
johnxxit's managing windows too (the wm lib is actually in its memory space)03:48
GeneralAntillesI can't wait to see it on N8x0.03:50
johnxxwithout 3D accell it's pretty slow :)03:50
GeneralAntillesWhy is it that everything Maemo-related is always delayed. . . .03:50
GeneralAntilles"Oh, yeah, we'll have these out to you in a couple weeks"03:50
GeneralAntillesBut if we're looking at OS2008HE levels of performance once it's accelerated. . . .03:51
johnxxeh, people get busy, people get interrupted with higher priority tasks03:51
GeneralAntillesPeople need to provide more realistic delivery dates.03:51
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GeneralAntillesOr more nebulous ones. . . .03:51
johnxxGeneralAntilles, the latter :)03:52
johnxxyou've worked iT, right?03:52
* GeneralAntilles wants to see Mer surpass Android in number of Engadget articles.03:54
johnxxwe don't need more articles yet I think03:54
johnxxwe need a lower barrier to entry for people to submit a 2-line patch03:54
johnxxanyways, the IT thing: ever said "I can do that in 3 hours" then got interrupted by a T1 outage, a last minute project and a broken printer?03:55
GeneralAntillesDoes having to help process the Harry Potter delivery count? ;)03:56
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GeneralAntillesEven so, a quick status update would be nice.03:59
johnxxyeah, but I totally understand their position03:59
johnxxanyways, it won't be really blocking us for a while03:59
johnxxand I'm hopeful about the qtablet derivative as well03:59
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lopzhi ;)04:30
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timelesssp3000: ping04:34
timelesswanta hear s soething +urprising@04:34
timelessat&t in dc still doesn't let me call us numbers04:35
* timeless wonders how many years it takes to fix a service ticket04:35
timelessboarding flight to fra04:35
johnxxactually, to predict how long something like that would take, you'd have to find a service ticket that was actually fixed04:38
timelessi've raised it for three occasions04:38
timelesssurely someone can fix something04:39
timelessi'm @iad for roughly 1hr this time04:39
timelesssufficient to verify "still broken"04:39
timelessand sufficient to call elisa+company service desk04:39
johnxxiad = dulles?04:39
timelessanyone hear have useful contacts w/ at&t04:40
timelessjohnx: .04:40
johnxxeven *apple* has trouble getting at&t to do what they want in a timely matter04:41
johnxxfor us mere mortals, I don't see any hope04:42
dmj726Fortunately At&t customers can get all their problems fixed via the Jobs distortion field.04:43
timelessfwiw tmobile here is cool04:43
timelessi get @a 3g network04:43
timelesstoo bad i can't use it for internet access04:44
timelesscan someone please remind me why 3g is a good thing?04:44
timeless(i'm using 2.5g on at&t)04:44
dmj7263g is faster I think?04:44
timelessi can trade: either internet or call people in the us04:44
timelessdmj: for what? voice?04:45
dmj726faster for data...not sure if there's a voice difference.04:45
timelessagain, i can't use internet on tmobile (the 3g network)04:45
johnxxI can04:45
timelesswe're boarded04:45
johnxxand I can get calls while downloading04:45
timelessthey're about to04:46
timelessjohnx: my subscription has serious quirks04:46
timelessremember, i'm roaming04:46
timelessand steaming04:46
johnxxah :)04:46
timeless3 visits to the est coast in a year04:46
johnxxI'm on their $10 dumbphone data plan :D04:46
johnxxI actually need to buy a pre-paid card and see what I can use it for :)04:48
timelesswe're leaving04:52
timelesssee people from FRA04:52
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GeneralAntilles3 hops05:05
GeneralAntillesThat's brutal.05:05
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mmlj4does nokia use maemo (or whatever) on their phones? which models?06:26
dmj726n900 video editor gui mockup:
johnxxit's all about the tesla roadster06:37
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dmj726I'd like feedback on the gui mockup, especially from the other video editing folks.06:40
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dmj726(Yes, the deck of cards is filling the place of an actual n900)06:42
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pupnikdunno vid editing06:58
pupnikreduce mode switching in common workflow tasks-06:58
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wazdgood time to sue some ass07:38
luke-jrsue Nokia? :)07:38
wazdnope, my army dep07:40
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Macermerlin is pretty good07:52
Macerit's like a harry potter that doesn't suck and isn't nearly as gay07:52
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RST38hmoo all08:06
RST38hheya wazd08:06
pupnikhi RST38h08:09
pupnikhow you08:09
pupnikdealextreme has n900 batteries for 4 bucks08:10
pupniknot sure if that would be a good thing to buy ;)08:10
RST38hpupnik: alive08:10
RST38hReal N900 batteries or something made in China and marked as such?08:11
pupniki wouldn't put one in a loaner08:11
pupnikjust thought it was funny08:11
* RST38h wouldn't put one in anything, scary08:12
dmj726how much are the real ones?08:12
dmj726$15 for a genuine one isn't bad.08:12
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RST38hthis is the lower bound, the upper one is $4008:12
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RST38h"Agreed about the limited resources...all the more reason to let a JIT compiler from a "scripted" language handle your memory management for you and eliminate the risk of resource-sucking memory leaks and other similar issues"08:19
RST38hJoin date: Sep200908:19
* RST38h snickers08:19
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pupnikCustomer relationships are on a lot of companies' balance sheets today...08:20
RST38hpoor Indians are getting the pink slip then?08:21
pupnikit's crazy new accounting rules08:21
pupnikif i were still in finance, i'd have blown a few gaskets08:21
RST38hOh, you mean for the banks...08:22
pupnikactually these are new mark-to-market accounting standards, apply to more than just banks08:22
pupnikalso you no longer may have the asset on the books at the price you buy it, on the day you bought it08:23
pupniksorry oftop08:23
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RST38hwell, less vapor08:26
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RedPenguinI was doing an update using apt-get update and it ended up removing busybox and now the N810 just reboots over and over, and same when I try the USB Windows Flash method.08:43
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MacerRedPenguin: that is odd. reflashing it should return it to factory condition08:47
RedPenguinwell that's what's strange08:48
RedPenguinI try and go to reflash it08:48
RedPenguinDo what it says, but Nokia shows up with the USB icon08:48
RedPenguinThen it just restarts over and over08:48
RedPenguintried it again USB icon disappeared in like 2 seconds08:49
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RedPenguinLooks like I am saved by the Linux way of flashing09:02
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RedPenguinWow, I am so glad that I had a Linux machine near by because the Windows way was not even close to working.09:03
dmj726Linux keeps saving my computers too.09:04
RedPenguinI know exactly what you mean, I can't tell you how many Windows computers I had to save people's data using a LiveCD09:05
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dmj726Yeah, people are usually genuinely surprised you can do that.09:13
Stskeepsmany people's thesises and family pics were saved that way :P09:15
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ensimost people dont understand the value of backup untill its too late09:20
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RedPenguinI know what you all mean09:28
RedPenguinI'd had people think I was hacking the computer when using Linux09:29
RedPenguinI mean hacking someone else not hacking the computer09:29
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LupuWell, at least you weren't suspended from school for using a command line.09:31
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RedPenguinwow, your school must have been tough, teachers just yelled at me09:32
dmj726shouldn't people be encouraged to use the terminal?09:32
RedPenguinI once used Telnet on Windows for talking on IRC09:32
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RedPenguinAnd two girls said "Wow you must be really smart" and looked at me like I was God09:32
RedPenguinWell I guess unless they use Terminal to destroy the system09:33
Stskeepsor they were being sarcastic..09:33
dmj726just don't give them superuser access09:33
RedPenguinI know probably being sarcastic but either way it was kinda weird09:33
LupuMy example wasn't from personal experience, but allegedly someone in the US was suspended from school for using the command line09:35
LupuHe had it in fullscreen mode, the teacher reported it as suspicious behavior and finally he was suspended.09:35
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RedPenguinOh I see09:35
RedPenguinI think probably it was Administration that Suspended him, because IT probably might had said he did no hacking09:36
RedPenguinI mean I think it probably went only to Admin and never was looked at by IT09:36
dmj726Yeah, suspended for "being suspicious" I guess.09:37
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dmj726I once got told to stop playing games while programing a little app.09:37
LupuI'm trying to find the original article...09:37 a "computer class"09:37
dmj726I was done with my work and never even left the app we were supposed to be "learning" (M$ Word)09:38
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RedPenguinI always like how in the media, they say Teachers/Admin catch students not hacking, but never seem to know what's going on when a student really is09:41
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RedPenguinI remember a few stories where it was like the school said "We had no clue said student was hacking"09:42
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dmj726Probably because they have no clue what hacking looks like?09:42
LupuHm, I can't find it... I must have been dreaming, since Google's all-seeing-eye isn't taking me back(although it was some time ago)09:42
dmj726...give you a hint...full screen terminal ain't it.09:42
dmj726why would somebody want a full screen terminal anyway?09:43
dmj726unless they're running without an xserver of course.09:43
RedPenguinAnyone's schools actually used Linux?09:44
RedPenguinEvery school in my area seemed to be 100% Windows period.09:44
dmj726My university does.09:44
RedPenguinWell excluding one being Novell Netware just on the server09:44
RedPenguinnot that Netware runs on a client machines anyway09:45 high school used mainly linux servers, though Linux was spread pretty freely on student's laptops.09:45
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dmj726On the other hand, my freshman year high school used all Windows with a Novell filter.09:46
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dmj726I've grown to like Novell somewhat more since the time when my only experience with them was with school censorware.09:46
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dmj726My sophomore through senior year high school didn't do any internet filtering at all.09:47
LupuMy university had one Linux computer near the main entrance, only for quick access to the schedules(of classes, whatever you call those)09:48
RedPenguinMy local community college is going to drop Novell class and everybody besides me seems to hate it09:48
dmj726We have several Red Hat labs.09:48
LupuThe problem was, it was maintained by a wannabe-IT-guru, an egocentric person with very little knowledge of the things she was teaching about. As long as no-one asked questions, she seemed credible.09:48
dmj726We're actually required to use the linux computers in some classes.09:49
RedPenguinThe community college had one Linux class that was nothing but basics, no good stuff at all09:49
LupuThe computer was running an ancient variant of RedHat, and got the blame for any network problems09:49
LupuIt was quite hilarious really, as it was the first Linux experience for many people, I overheard one complaining "Yeah, that's how LINUX works!!" when he couldn't check his schedule for the day(network problems).09:50
RedPenguinIt was literally, "The cp command does this & the mv command does this" and some explaination of the file system09:50
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LupuThe whole network was down for hours that morning.09:50
dmj726One of my classes required writing bits into the linux kernel09:50
dmj726seriously?  Just bash commands?09:51
RedPenguinThat and some explainations of how the file system works and how the kernel versions work like 2.6 vs 2.409:51
dmj726I wouldn't touch 2.4 with a 10 foot pole.09:52
dmj726The family's Sony television set excepted.09:52
RedPenguinWhat made me laugh was every class the instructor asked if anyone used or uses Linux, I was always the only one who spoke up09:52
dmj726*every* class?09:52
dmj726sounds like she wasn't very persuasive.09:53
RedPenguinI meant every class that the instructor asked, like in Operating Systems and Linux09:53
RedPenguinShe didn't ask in Novell, because not too many people use Novell Netware at home I don't think09:53
dmj726ah, different classes, not like three times a week09:54
RedPenguinno, glad I explained that09:54
dmj726I'm rarely the only one.09:54
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RedPenguinTwo of my friends like Linux, but they constantly want my help when they break it09:55
RedPenguinThen I fix it for them, then they break it again or reinstall the OS without telling me09:55
RedPenguinI then ask, Why on Earth did you have me do all that work then?09:55
dmj726I get that for both Windows and Linux.09:56
dmj726Not so much the Hackintosh users though.09:56
dmj726Mac users can be tricky though.09:56
dmj726...since my Mac experience is limited and most Mac users don't know what they're doing.09:57
RedPenguinFor me that's Windows users, because I have to see their computer because they never probably describe the problem to me09:57
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RedPenguinproperly describe not probably describe09:58
dmj726WIndows is such a virus magnet09:58
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RedPenguinMy uncle got a virus, I removed it, two days later he got the EXACT same virus09:58
dmj726the only ways I've found to get a Linux virus were such that you deserved to get infected if you did.09:59
Suurorcasame porn site? ;p09:59
dmj726Like using pseudocode to write the virus and then compiling and running your program09:59
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RedPenguinSuurorca, sad to say, but I believe so10:00
dmj726I got to solve a virus problem on Christmas10:00
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dmj726first thing after being woken up too.10:00
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dmj726took an hour10:01
RedPenguinHopefully you didn't have to VNC in to the computer when the person was using Dial-up10:01
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dmj726no dialup10:01
dmj726thank god10:02
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RedPenguinMy cousin uses Dialup, likes to download file-sharing MP3s, and can't understand why they take so long to download10:03
RedPenguinEven though I told her at least 12 times10:04
dmj726 should be given to everyone that asks for computer help10:04
dmj726umm...get broadband and the problem will magically disappear?10:05
Suurorcathat fails because they lack the heuristics to find menu items that "look useful"10:05
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RedPenguindmj726, I told that to her, but she complains she can't get cable due to a back bill, and is taking forever for DSL due to not getting a credit/debit card activated that they want10:06
RedPenguinGuess she doesn't see things clearly or something10:07
dmj726Don't worry, she won't have to worry about slow download speeds after ACTA gets approved.10:08
dmj726...more do to a complete lack of internet than anything else.10:08
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RedPenguinReminds me of my one college instructor who taught Computer Forensics but didn't know where to change the IP address inside Windows10:16
dmj726That's awful10:16
dmj726Even the student's at my high school knew that.10:16
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dmj726How can you do computer forensics without knowing how an ip address can be changed.10:18
Stskeepsmorning andre__10:18
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RedPenguinI just love how my one High School computer teacher quit then for like 1-1 1/2 months, we had a substitute that had no clue at all about computers.10:18
RedPenguinSeems like a dangerous thing when the every student knows more than the teacher10:19
sulxit was fun to do pransk to teatcher with hickjack apps =)10:19
dmj726Freshman year, I had one who was clueless about flash drives.10:19
RedPenguinI put VNC on my English teachers computer with the help of my computer teacher and after that, she said to me her computer was haunted10:20
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dmj726as in possessed by ghosts?10:20
RedPenguinShe said because the mouse was moving by itself and typing was occuring by it self.10:20
dmj726umm...Occam's Razor fail?10:21
dmj726Of course I've seen people who are absolutely astonished that their *desktop* can have more than one window open at a time.10:22
dmj726Windows XP != iphone10:22
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RedPenguinI still know people who don't understand that Wikipedia != 100% Guaranteed Fact Information10:23
Stskeepsmorning wazd!10:24
RedPenguinMany of them peer college students10:24
dmj726You mean wikipedia isn't solely written by experts whose only motivation is to create a database of fact checked reliable information?10:25
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RedPenguinI guess not10:25
dmj726of course the mainstream media isn't exactly perfect when it comes to fact checking either.10:25
RedPenguinNeither is the Internet it self, but people tend to believe everyone they find on it10:26
wazdheya all10:26
wazdthese jerks gave me papers10:26
RedPenguineverything they find on it, not everyone10:26
Stskeepsand you didn't have to lube up to get them?10:26
wazdStskeeps: nothing cool in fact cause I won't make it to Barcelona now anyway :(10:26
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Stskeepsyeah.. next time10:27
Stskeepsat least you can go abroad10:27
Stskeepsmorning tekojo!10:27
tekojoMorning Stskeeps10:27
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Stskeepswazd: which opens a lot of possibilities for someone like you :P10:29
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wazdStskeeps: hah :D10:30
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sarowerHello all, Good morning!10:31
johnxwazd, you're a free man?10:31
sarowerI have an application for N900 and when i close the application it gives the following error:10:31
mgedmingaah, application startup screenshots10:32
sarowerCrash: Signal 6 (SIGABORT)10:32
mgedmintried to pan the settings, got a desktop widget menu instead10:32
mgedmins/menu/edit mode/10:32
infobotmgedmin meant: tried to pan the settings, got a desktop widget edit mode instead10:32
sarowerI am using D-bus!10:32
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mgedminsarower, looks like an assertion failure to me10:33
mgedmindid you try running the app from an xterm, see if it prints anything?10:34
sarowermgedmin: But during closing the application10:34
sarowerI got it10:35
sarowerI run the application from an applet10:35
sarowermgedmin: never run from xterm!10:35
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mgedminjust wanted to try to help; if you don't wanna debug, don't debug10:39
* mgedmin 's n900 refuses to find any wireless networks now :/10:39
johnxmgedmin, mine refuses to join cell networks until I reboot sometimes10:39
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mgedminifconfig wlan0 down; ifconfig wlan0 up -> all is fine again10:40
johnxanything fun in dmesg?10:40
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mgedmintotal silence until I did the ifconfig down thing10:41
mgedminand then firmware booted etc.10:41
mgedminI had it configured for ad-hoc wifi manually before10:41
mgedminso I'm not blaming the os10:41
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mgedminnow it's supposedly online but I can't even ping it :/10:43
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wazdjohnx: kinda :)10:45
wazdjohnx: now I need red crowbar :D10:45
johnxwazd, if you ever find a gravity gun, just remember who your friends are :P10:46
dmj726how about the dark-gravity-portal gun?10:47
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mgedminwireless networking was invented to decrease quality of life10:53
mgedminstill, it's fun to learn when somebody arrives at the office because mdns-scan discovers their laptop10:53
johnxyeah. wifi is kind of a nightmare except when you're the only one within 300 feet operating an AP10:55
johnxand even then it's still a bad dream10:55
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RST38h300ft~= 100m10:58
RST38hit is not that bad10:58
mgedminthe images app is misnamed10:59
mgedminit should be called the denial of service app10:59
RST38hHey N900 is not guilty that you have a faulty AP =)11:00
mgedminactually, it is11:01
mgedminbecause (a) my laptop is having no problems, and (b) the n900 is having no prob...11:01
mgedminavahi is down since I rebooted11:01
mgedmin*that's* why I can't ssh in11:01
* mgedmin hates black hatred11:01
mgedminlet me just share a screenshot of the bug via, that'll settle me down11:02
mgedminbattery already down to 66% since this morning, *sigh*11:02
johnxRST38h, not bad, if you live in the middle of nowhere...11:05
* mgedmin files bug 6096, but he can't reproduce it now11:05
povbotBug xterm: invisible app menu11:05
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ian_r1just ordered my discounted N900 from the forum nokia store :D11:08
zaheermif anyone has the time and has an n900, please test the app i wrote yesterday: zoutube it is in extras-devel and in app manager it is in the Internet and networking section11:09
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cbx33Is there a root cert missing on the n810?11:21
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cbx33why does now have an invalid certificate11:21
johnxare you from the future?11:22
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cbx33no I'm not11:22
cbx33nor from the past11:22
Jaffacbx33: It often does.11:22
cbx33Jaffa, and you guys just accept it?11:22
MyrttiI get invalid certificate with my mail client in ubuntu often11:23
Myrttiit's not limited only to maemo platform11:23
mgedminI used to get invalid cert warnings on obviously serious sites when I didn't have the date set correctly11:24
cbx33mgedmin: yeh I had that on my phone11:24
mgedmincertificate from the future is automatically invalid11:24
cbx33but my nokia is set correctly11:25
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MacerSimilarly, Douglas Clegg's Mordred, Bastard Son portrays the character as not only sympathetic but heroic (he and Lancelot save Guinevere from a murderous plot), and in a new twist, he is Lancelot's lover.11:25
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Jaffacbx33: I think it's Google at fault.11:37
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ensihmm does anyone happen to know what application is laucnhed when user goes to Settings -> Voip and IM Accounts11:47
ensithis is on n90011:47
mgedmincan you call that an "application"?11:51
mgedminit's a settings dialog11:51
mgedminosso-applet-accounts, I think11:51
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wjtensi: why do you ask?11:55
ensiis there a way to invoke it externally?11:55
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* wjt peers11:55
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wjtensi: you could try just running it; or, i think it has a D-Bus API to launch it on particular screens11:57
ensiok thanks11:58
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wjtthere might also be a client library shipped12:01
wjt(namely rtcom-accounts-ui-client)12:01
Termanacbx33: I know the discussion happened over half an hour ago or so, but Google is at fault for an invalid certificate, not Maemo.12:02
ensihmm im trying to launch /usb/bin/rtcom-accounts-ui and it wont launch the GUI (or the process seems to be running but nothign comes up on screen)12:02
johnxensi, is this maemo4 or 5?12:02
cbx33Termana: but the certificate is not flagged as bad elsewhere12:02
ensimaemo 512:02
cbx33could it not be that there is an old root cert in maemo?12:03
johnxif you have dbus-monitor available you could possibly see if a dbus message gets sent when other things bring up that dialog12:03
wjtensi: I'd use use rtcom-accounts-ui-client if i were you12:03
wjtthe d-bus API is pretty simple though12:03
ensiwjt: cant find such a thing12:03
wjtit's a library, not a tool12:03
Termanacbx33: Google gave me a bad certificate earlier today. I was on a (horror) Windows PC at the time.12:03
ensionly have rtcom-accounts-ui and rtcom-accounts-ui.launch (which segfaults)12:03
cbx33Termana: for imap on gmail?12:04
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TermanaNah, they gave me an invalid certificate for HTTPS. Its probably pretty different, but I thought I would just throw that in there12:04
mgedminthere's an idea for a web 2.0 service: badcertificateforeveryoneoronlyme.com12:05
cbx33Termana: ok thanks12:05
wjtensi: try: dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/AccountsUI uint32:012:05
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ensiwjt: i get12:07
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ensiit runs the correct dialog btw12:08
ensivery nice12:08
wjtyeah, the object at the path you get back implements an interface you can use to control it further, i think12:11
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wjtglad to help :)12:11
ensithats all i need to do to launch the config dialog12:11
ensihow did you figure this out, is there a doc where i can look this up or you have internal access? ;)12:11
wjtensi: start a terminal, run `dbus-monitor`; switch to somewhere where you can launch the accounts dialog and launch it, and look back in the terminal to see what happened on d-bus12:12
ensioh cool12:13
ensiheh this is good stuff. i've never used d-bus. i know what it is about but no practical knowledge12:13
ensithanks a bunch!12:13
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RST38hqwerty: around?12:14
wjtif you're using this from a C application, you should probably use librtcom-accounts-ui-client12:14
wjtand in any case, don't shell out to dbus-send :)12:14
vesaanyone had a look at bug #6067 submitted during weekend but nobodys voted any which way. just wondering if the bugreport is missing something or is in the wrong place...12:15
povbotBug Media player becomes unusable if a dialog is open when opening a stream link from browser12:15
vesaoh ah heh =)12:15
mikhasvesa, do you need someone confirming the bug?12:16
ensiwjt: probably this one?12:16
ensilibrtcom-accounts-ui-client0 - Client library to control AccountsUI12:16
vesawell that'd be a good start. if it's only my device then i'll flash it again today and recheck.12:16
vesabut it's quite an annoying bug as it requires a reboot if you accidentally open a stream with a dialog open in mediaplayer12:16
mikhasok, will try. let's see12:16
wjtensi: aye. hopefully the -dev package with the header files is in the SDK...12:19
ensiyeah it is12:19
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ensiah shame i cant use this12:20
ensithe api wants a GtkWindow* (probably for parenting the dialogs... or something)12:21
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wjtwhat're you writing?12:22
ensiits an application12:22
ensibut its in Qt, not Gtk12:22
wjthmm. the d-bus API just uses XIDs12:22
wjtyou should just be able to pass NULL for the GtkWindow * argument12:23
qwerty12RST38h: Yep12:23
wjtand then it'll pass the XID 0 like you did above. or, if you can get an XID from Qt, maybe just use QDBus to call the D-Bus API directly12:24
tbfthat iphone exploit also would work on N900 with ssh installed:
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tbfbtw, why doesn't the sshd package ask for setting up a password anymore?12:25
ensiwjt: whats XID?12:26
ensiexecutable id or something?12:26
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johnxI'm guessing the ID of the X11 window?12:27
wjtjohnx: right12:27
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mikhasvesa, I can confirm the freezing dialog (that is, not accepting any user input)12:28
ensi" * This manual documents the <em>low-level</em> D-Bus C API. <b>If you use * this low-level API directly, you're signing up for some pain.</b>12:28
wjti'd use qdbus rather than libdbus :)12:29
wjtit happens to be12:29
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ensiah qt dbus12:29
vesamikhas: ok. so its a real bug. what's the normal action here? you vote for it and we see if others do too. then just wait? =)12:30
mikhasvesa, I added my thoughts12:30
mikhaswill vote, too12:30
vesaok, thanks.12:31
wjtensi: got to head out; happy hacking!12:32
ensiwjt: have fun, thanks!12:32
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RST38hqwerty: How do I deleted current Transmission config? Have not been able to find it neither in gconf nor in ~/.*12:36
ccookeMorning, all12:36
RST38hmoo ccooke12:36
qwerty12RST38h: ~/.config/transmission12:36
RST38hqwerty: Oh. Thanks!12:37
mikhasvesa, we could add some keywords, maybe. but yeah, you'll have to wait a bit12:37
mikhasalso, it would be good if you find more of those modal dialogs bugs =)12:38
mikhas(you mentioned that you came across a similar problem elsewhere)12:38
vesayeah. i'm quite sure i did but can't remember what application/scenario =/12:39
mgedmin$XDG_CONFIG_DIR for the win!12:39
mikhasthen you can link the bugs to each other, and that surely catches attention quickly, methinks12:39
vesalike you said it's probably a windowmanager type-bug which would mean most of the applications are affected12:39
mikhasmaybe it is, yes12:39
vesatesting with email app12:41
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RST38hBlind Gamer Sues Sony12:56
vesamikhas: email, browser and conversations seem to handle similar stuff ok12:58
mikhasSo I guess apps can work around this problem, somehow. And the media player doesn't.13:00
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mikhasNow it'd be a good point to find more knowledgable people =)13:00
vesayeah =)13:02
RST38hmikhas: What is the bug you are talking about?13:05
qwerty12Is the report pertaining to the fact that you can't switch windows with a modal dialog open?13:05
qwerty12( is blocked here)13:05
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mikhasbug #606713:05
povbotBug Media player becomes unusable if a dialog is open when opening a stream link from browser13:05
mikhasRST38h, ^^^13:05
RST38ha'ok13:06, it is not one of the bugs I have seen13:07
vesasubmitted this weekend while playing around with the radio stuff13:08
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timelessqwerty: system modal dialogs are well...13:16
* timeless blames ui team13:16
timelessctrl-backspace works for some dialogs13:16
qwerty12...and for others, you are taken back to the desktop with the dialog still on top :-)13:17
timelessa heavy bat is your best hope otherwise13:17
timelessqwerty: zenity?13:17
qwerty12 explains it quite well13:17
timelessspeaking of which ;)13:17
qwerty12timeless: What window, exactly, would I get Zenity's dialogs transient for?13:18
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timelessideally we'd set up zenity to take an arg/env var of an xwindow id13:23
timelessfor control panel,my cpa would sniff x11 to find the cpa window and pass that13:23
timelesscan you just manage the code to support transience via an arg?13:24
timelesswe can do the other part later13:24
qwerty12Makes sense; *nods*13:24
timelesswe probably will need to have a --window mode for zenity13:24
timelesswhere instead of being a dialog13:25
timelessit paints a full window13:25
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timelessin my case, i won't need it13:25
timelessbut other cases would13:25
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timelessmake that --as-window13:26
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timelesssince it's not the knd of object, merely a change to how it works13:27
timelessthe one i want is --parent-window=13:27
timelessthink you can do those today?13:28
timelessmy bet is it's roughly 10 lines of code13:28
timelessthe harder code is probably for the cpa to fish out the actual parent id13:28
* kirma wonders how franticly he should look after the credit card history for signs of approaching N900 shipment ;)13:30
timelesskirma: i wouldn't bother13:30
kirmaI know.13:30
lardmanhmm, any Telepathists around?13:31
Robot101lardman: yes, and always on #telepathy :)13:31
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timelesshrm, made google news13:31
lardmanRobot101: well this is N900 specific so I thought I'd ask here first13:31
lardmanRobot101: it may also not be so much Telepathy and more abook related13:32
qwerty12timeless: sounds do-able. In return, please get the browser's address bar fixed13:32
lardmanRobot101: anyway, I'm trying to work out where the geolocation information (i.e. the @ London, etc.) is located in a contact?13:33
Robot101barisione: ^^ ?13:33
Robot101lardman: it could just be parsed out of the presence by the abook UI13:33
lardmanyeah, but I can't find the right field in the contact/presence objects13:34
lardmangeo is empty, presence location is empty, notes is empty, etc13:34
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lardmanI've probably wandered right past it, but thought I would just ask and see if anyone knows off the top of their head13:34
Robot101lardman: barisione's your man, but he's asleep or something :)13:35
lardmanRobot101: ok, thanks :)13:35
timelessarrow key support?13:38
VDVsxzaheerm, ping13:39
qwerty12timeless: Try pressing up to select a url already in the list. Not going to happen :)13:39
barisioneRobot101: I'm not asleep, I'm in the office :)13:39
Robot101barisione: yes yes sure thing... :)13:39
* barisione reads the backlog13:40
Robot101that doesn't mean you're awake... :D13:40
lardmanbarisione: can I ask you a work related question then please? ;)13:40
barisionelardman: sure13:40
zaheermVDVsx, pong13:40
lardmanI'm trying to extract the location information for my contacts, so I can plot them on a map in the end, do you know which field this lives in?13:40
lardmanI'm using this test code atm (modified version of the maemo-examples code):
VDVsxzaheerm, are you subscribing the gsoc-meetups list ? :P13:41
barisionelardman: sadly it's just in the presence status message13:41
zaheermVDVsx, no, i haven't subscribed!13:41
zaheermVDVsx, why?13:41
VDVsxzaheerm, gonna promote the barcelona hackfest there :P13:41
lardmanbarisione: ah, that comes back empty (or rather NULL) for me though13:41
barisionebut do you see it in the address book?13:42
zaheermVDVsx, cool13:42
lardmanbarisione: what does osso_abook_presence_get_location_string() do in that case?13:43
barisioneah, you use e_contact_get(E_CONTACT(contact), E_CONTACT_GEO)13:43
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lardmanI've tried that, I was trying all sorts to see where it was13:43
lardmanbut that never returns anything13:43
lardmanthere's also a binary and a script in the same dir if you (or anyone) wants to try for themselves13:46
barisionenope, E_CONTACT_GEO is not going to work,13:46
barisioneosso_abook_contact_presence_get_location_string should work13:46
lardmanpresence location: (null)13:47
Jaffamurrayc: Was it you saying, btw, that I'd have problems with Facebook & addresses & phone numbers?13:48
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barisionelardman: sorry, I have no idea. let me check the code13:49
murraycJaffa, yes, because tbf said that.13:49
lardmanbarisione: osso_abook_presence_get_presence_status(OSSO_ABOOK_PRESENCE(contact)) also always returns NULL13:49
lardmanbarisione: thanks13:49
tbfwhat am i saying?13:51
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murrayctbf: It's about the facebook terms-of-service.13:52
tbfmurrayc: ah. yes.13:52
tbfJaffa: you are violating the terms of services when you fetch phone numbers and full addresses from facebook.13:53
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tbfJaffa: you violate them because for getting them you have to bypass the API, and enter your user's credentials into login.php13:55
tbfJaffa: that technique is called "proxying" by FB and forbidden13:55
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sarower_good morning all,14:02
sarower_If i use expose_event then can I use system button like gtkButton?14:03
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sarower_Where i am drawing image i am not using widget but i want to use a widget where no image is drawing14:04
sarower_but dynamically it will use image in another view14:04
sarower_how it could be ?14:05
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kalikianatolisarower_, not sure what you plan to do. you could use a GtkImage and unset the image as needed14:06
kalikianatolior use a GtkDrawingArea and draw the image when you need it14:06
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sarower_kalikianatoli: It is possible to set  GtkImage and unset dynamically. but i use expose event to draw and cairo14:08
sarower_kalikianatoli: How it could be possible?14:09
lardmanany vala people here?14:10
kalikianatolisarower_, if you want to draw on your own a drawing area is probably what you want, it's specifically meant for that14:10
barisionelardman: I found the problem and why it doesn't work14:12
barisionegive me some more minutes to find out the details14:12
lardmanok, thanks14:12
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sarower_kalikianatoli: Actually the scenario is that I need to draw image, text using cairo over an applet. That means I am using expose event to draw these.14:17
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sarower_kalikianatoli: At the same time, can i use widget if needed?14:18
barisionelardman: so, it really seems that this is broken :(14:18
barisionelardman: the problem is that the format for geolocation in the presence status changed from the easy to parse “message [location]” to the harder to parse “message - location” or, if there is no message, just “@ location”14:20
zaheermsarower_, you can probably use cairo to draw the image?14:20
barisionelardman: I'm reporting a bug. in the meantime you can just try to parse the presence status by yourself14:20
sarower_zaheerm: ok, But can i use other widget suppose gtkbutton there?14:20
barisionelardman: but parsing it correctly could be a bit difficult considering that “-” is a very common symbol...14:21
sarower_suppose at position 0,0 an image and at position 100, 0 0a button?14:21
zaheermsarower_, better off using a GtkDrawingArea and use cairo to draw the stuff you want there i think14:21
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sarower_zaheerm: suppose at position 0,0 an image and at position 100, 0 0a button?14:21
sarower_if i use drawing area?14:21
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zaheermsarower_, i am no gtk expert but you can arrange your widgets in a layout (like a GtkTable or GtkVBox or GtkHBox), where you want to draw on top...use a GtkDrawingArea and where you want a button use a HildonButton14:22
lardmanbarisione: hmm, I can't see that symbol actually14:24
lardmanbarisione: in irc, I need a better client14:25
lardmanbarisione: so which call should return the parsable string I need?14:25
barisionelardman: hm? it's a dash :)14:25
lardmanI am seing: “14:25
barisionemy proper unicode quotes break your client :)14:26
Robot101lardman: are you working on an Emerillon plugin?14:26
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lardmanbarisione: yeah, but I'm running under Windows atm so what do you expect? ;)14:26
lardmanRobot101: yes14:26
barisionehehe :)14:26
Robot101lardman: you can still config your client to use Unicode14:26
Robot101lardman: while you're there, you should also port over the contacts-on-a-map code from Empathy14:27
Robot101so it will support both official Telepathy location interfaces, and Maemo's @ location stuff14:27
Stskeeps <- a cookie for gabriel schulhof if he's here for making hildon-systray14:27
lardmanyeah, that's the sort of thing I want14:27
Robot101lardman: we want it removed from Empathy and put into Emerillon14:27
lardmanI've put an un-hildonised emerillon in extras-devel, hoping to get some more people interested14:27
Robot101yeah I saw that :D14:28
Robot101is there a maemo repository somewhere for emerillon? gitorious or so?14:28
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lardmanno, nothing yet, was wondering about starting one14:28
barisionecool, targeting fremantle was my main goal when I started emerillon14:28
barisione(before giving up for lack of time)14:28
lardmanah ok14:29
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lardmanwell I patched emerillon to use liblocation rather than geoclue, and shockingly it worked out of the box14:30
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Robot101I have a suspicion it doesn't turn liblocation off14:30
lardmanyeah it doesn't I seem to remember14:30
Robot101my device was trying to get a geoloc fix even though emerillon was closed and I was offline and not taking any pictures14:30
lardmanthough I did stick the call in there, but perhaps in the wrong place14:30
VDVsxlardman, emerillon is written in C right ?14:30
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lardmanVDVsx: yes14:43
lardmansorry for the delay, had to talk to the boss14:43
lardmanso who do I talk to about opening a Garage project for Emerillon in X-Fade's absence?14:44
tekojolardman the same place you always talk to when opening a garage project, the web page14:45
lardmanoh, I normally skip that step14:46
lardmanwill use it now though ;)14:46
tekojoOh, now I know why X-Fade is so busy all the time :-)14:46
lardmanyep, that and his trying to remove me from the frontpage all the time ;)14:47
lardmanso being serious again, is a Garage project the best bet here?14:48
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lardmanI would hope that the upstream guys will eventually take patches14:48
lardmanin which case what should the Garage name be? mEmeriillon or some-such?14:48
lardmanor just plain Emerillon14:48
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wjtyou could pick the name of a different explorer's ship that starts with M? :)14:49
lardmanWell I don't really want to fork it, just add hildon-isation patches, and support location methods used on the Maemo devices14:50
* timeless board to HEL14:52
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ensiwjt: yo14:54
ensiany ideas where I could find the dbus message signature for invoking "Mail for Exchange" (settings -> Mail For Exchange). I've looked in the headers for rtcom but cant find anything. Don't have access to the source either.14:56
ensineither can i find anything in the system that invokes this already so i cant get the method signature with dbus-monitor14:56
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lardmanbarisione: you said I need to parse the presence status. I presume I get this string using: osso_abook_presence_get_presence_status(OSSO_ABOOK_PRESENCE(contact)) ?14:59
barisionehm wait14:59
lardmanthis is always (null)14:59
_|Nix|_X-Fade: Ping!14:59
lardman_|Nix|_: I think he's on holiday15:00
barisionelardman: it's not that function15:00
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_|Nix|_Aha ... OK ...15:00
barisionelardman: it's osso_abook_presence_get_presence_status_message15:00
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_|Nix|_So, whom can I talk to about a fatally non-responsive FM packages page? (a.k.a, MB#6085)?15:01
* Stskeeps passes _|Nix|_ a cookie for hildon-systray15:01
lardmanbarisione: thanks15:01
_|Nix|_*munch* *munch* ...15:01
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barisionelardman: you are welcome15:01
lardmanbarisione: are there any plans to pass more useful data, e.g. lat/lon and accuracy?15:01
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: What do you use it for?15:02
barisionelardman: not that I know of. the problem is that lat/lon looks ugly I think15:02
barisioneso they want strings15:02
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: *nod* ... niceness!15:02
barisionethe proper solution would be not to abuse the presence message15:02
lardmanbarisione: yep, just wondering if it could be passed in some other non-visiable field15:02
barisionewe have a telepathy interface for geolocation15:02
barisionebut it works only with xmpp15:03
barisioneand the server has to support that15:03
lardmanyeah, and most servers don't support it15:03
lardmanor it's not enabled15:03
barisioneand gmail (the biggest xmpp server) doesn't have it too15:03
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_|Nix|_Stskeeps: Still, it'd be nice to have it as a home applet in FM, IMO. Unfortunately, it looks like home applets cannot properly handle XEmbed windows (MB#6024).15:03
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: However, look at the source package for a fairly generic implementation of the systray mechanism. You can pretty much turn any widget into a systray.15:04
Stskeeps_|Nix|_: :nod: will look into it15:04
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: Any container, that is.15:04
lardmanbarisione: ok, well once I get this working, I can at least point at something and say "it would be better with this/that/the other"15:04
lardmanbarisione: cheers for your help15:04
* lardman heads off for some lunch and emerillon hacking15:04
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: I stole it from Diablo's hildon-desktop, so the credit is not all mine.15:04
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wjtensi: no idea. it might not be service-activated.15:05
Stskeeps_|Nix|_: i hoped systray icons would be part of the status area but i guess there might be a good reason for it being not so15:05
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: Status icons are too small + read-only.15:05
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: Could've used a specially handled window though ...15:06
suihkulokkithe n900 delayed thread has gone completly nutty today15:06
Stskeepsmaybe like load-applet where it has for instance three functions in one15:07
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hrwhi all15:07
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Termanasuihkulokki: From this, we can infer, everyone in the thread is probably n900-crazy. The thread is not safe to enter until the savagers get their n900s15:07
Termanahello hrw15:08
hrwstill no info when n900 will be available?15:08
ensiwjt: ok no probs thanks15:08
auenfsome of the savages arent going to get a n900 tho :P15:08
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Stskeeps_|Nix|_: by status area i mean the one that pops up when clicking the status area :P15:09
Termanaauenf: then the thread is permantely barred, at least if you don't want to be ripped to shreds.15:09
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_|Nix|_Stskeeps: That's better, but still not perfect. The main point of the system tray is to be always visible. I mean, imagine nm-applet. If you lose connectivity, how would you know, until you check in the status menu?15:10
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Stskeepsnotifications? :P15:11
Termanahrw - I can guarentee that if there is any news at all regarding the N900, you'll see topics about it in the "hottest topics" sidebar (or whatever it's called)15:11
Stskeeps(we actually use hildon banners :P)15:11
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: That requires that every application switch from system tray to notifications.15:11
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: Unfortunately, system tray is older than notifications. You can thank Windoze 95 for that.15:12
Stskeepswill allow us to have a transitional period at least for this stuff until we integrate it better, so that's good15:13
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: I was thinking about listening to expose events from those windows whose IDs I receive, and then popping up the dialog.15:14
_|Nix|_Stskeeps: The problem with that is that, if you have an animation, you may have 1e6 expose events.15:15
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vesawhat's the official place for the maemo5 sdk?15:30
Stskeepsforum nokia these days15:30
vesacan't find the api docs there =/15:31
Stskeepsandre__: 6087 makes my brain hurt15:31
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andre__Stskeeps, that's why I CC'ed you. you got much more clue :)15:32
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Stskeepsandre__: is like a way to filter fanatics at the door or something..15:33
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vesathe library only has s60, java, web, flash. nothing about maemo =/15:33
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crashanddieHi guys, anyone got an up-to-date (Maemo 5) VMWare image with scratchbox or something?15:33
Stskeepscrashanddie: probably saner to just grab a ubuntu image and grab the .sh script15:34
crashanddieStskeeps: would make sense indeed15:34
andre__vesa, ?15:34
Stskeepsandre__: we need a lawyer in, licensemaster, or something15:34
Stskeepsor a philosopher.15:34
andre__it's pretty related, yeah.15:35
andre__a friend of mine switched from studying law to theology, as "it's both about finding the truth".15:35
vesaandre__: yeah. maybe i'm just too used to structured searchable api docs that don't require you to know wtf a gstreamer is =)15:35
andre__a gstreamer is a tasty multimedia package :-P15:36
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crashanddieandre__: neither law nor theology is about finding the truth, it's about finding where we went wrong, but still manage to spin the story in such a way the guys at the top don't get screwed and keep getting the monies15:42
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andre__crashanddie, actually both is about interpreting text :)15:43
andre__a law does not exist as long as a lawyer has not interpreted and applied it in court.15:43
crashanddieandre__: it's interesting to see how closely related both fields are15:43
crashanddieandre__: a laywer and a priest both dress up weirdly, show up in a near empty room and talk for hours to a dozen people who didn't want to be there in the first place15:44
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aquatixi need to remember that one15:44
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andre__yeah, they are quite similar15:46
zaheermthp, just got your blog comment15:49
zaheermre: gpodder + zoutube integration15:50
mikhashm, zootube ...15:51
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ccookeHmm. So if the n900 is shipping today (so they say) we should be able to get the release firmware sometime soon, right?15:54
zaheermccooke, hopefully :)15:55
fralswow, the shippingthread needs to die15:58
ccookefrals: which one? ;-)15:58
fralsgood point. D15:58
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lardmanhey fiferboy16:17
fiferboyhi lardman16:18
lardmangot that code working and returning locations now16:18
lardmanneed to do some reverse geocoding stuff now16:18
fiferboyThen you will be able to map them?16:18
lardmanyep :)16:18
lardmanwill add it as a plugin to emerillon16:18
fiferboyVery nice.  How is emerillon working on the device?16:18
fiferboy~lart visioviewer.exe16:19
* infobot stuffs visioviewer.exe into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it16:19
lardmanok, some problems getting some new vala plugins to work16:19
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lardmanand I need to hildonise the menu16:19
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lardmanhas anyone got round to making an app to switch on/off g_ether?16:25
Stskeepsi suspect g_nokia is actually usbnet16:25
qwerty12Stskeeps: Nice!16:25
lardmanyeah it is, just needs some config16:25
Stskeepswhich means it's activated by pc suite mode16:26
lardmanbut I don't think it is immediately usable16:26
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qwerty12Stskeeps: Not entirely sure about that; cdc_pcsuite must exist for a reason16:27
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qwerty12Stskeeps: Erm, cdc_phonet16:29
Stskeepscomposite gadget maybe16:29
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lardmanhmm, I really can't see where valac is used16:39
lardmanor does gcc recognise .vala as a file type?16:39
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JamieBennettX-Fade: you around?17:02
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wazd6 places remain in Moscow :)17:17
penguinbaitengrish, man I was laughing so hard I almost fell out of my chair17:18
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crashanddielardman: that's a bloody long lunch!17:20
lardmanyeah tell me about it17:20
crashanddiegod I'm jet-lagged17:20
crashanddieI could just sleep under my desk right now17:20
crashanddiewhat you been up to?17:21
lardmanwasn't feeling too hot last week17:21
lardmanand been moving furniture to my parents' house so we can decorate17:21
papoI'm wondering whether I can use the SDK to get an impression of this maemo 5 OS17:22
papobecause I'm actually very near to buying a N900 and I'm eager to see what I will get17:22
lardmancrashanddie: and trying to force myself to crack on with emerillon and mbarcode in my spare moments17:22
crashanddielardman: redecorating?17:22
lardmanpapo: it doesn't show the ui17:23
crashanddielardman: I agree, you should be working on emerillon17:23
lardmanI don't think anyway17:23
papolardman: ok, thank you17:23
crashanddielardman: what's emerillon, btw?17:23
mgedminpapo, no, the SDK is *not* a good way to get an impression of a N90017:24
papolardman: I'm also wondering which parts I can alter... I've read on several places that this is going to be open source etc. but I don't think this will hold for the whole phone... so what exactly will I be able to code?17:24
mgedminit's half-open, and I'd like to see a map too17:24
mgedminrule of thumb: builting applications are closed-source17:25
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mgedminunless the app is based on a preexisting open-source app17:25
mgedmineg. the mail client is open17:25
papohm ok17:25
mgedminthe browser's backed is open (geck), front-end is not (afaik)17:25
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hrwI hope that Qt will work properly17:26
mgedminvery large bits of the infrastructure are open17:26
mgedminsome are not (skype, probably sms and voice calls)17:26
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mgedminnice thing is that there's no code signing etc.17:26
hrwmgedmin: like in symbian?17:27
crashanddiemgedmin: skype is going to be open sourced17:27
papohm ok so by that, coming up with some code which allows me to block certain numbers or something like that is not likely possible (unless the phone can do that anyway)17:27
mgedminno need to "jailbreak"; to get root you install one package from the official unofficial repository17:27
crashanddiemgedmin: so we can expect the skype integration for N900 to be open sourced as well17:27
hrwcrashanddie: time will show how they will open it17:27
mgedmincrashanddie: only the frontend; the protocol bits will remain a closed library17:27
papocrashanddie: Is it? Last thing I read was about the UI17:27
aquatixcrashanddie: wait wut?17:27
crashanddieand the UI is what exactly?17:28
crashanddieit's 90% of what you use, it's 100% of what is implemented in Maemo 517:28
papocrashanddie: The thing you see. Not the libraries that handle compression, encryption etc.17:28
aquatixi think they won't opensource the tech17:28
aquatixas there's too much obfuscation going on17:28
hrwit is more like 'we suck at non-win32/non-osx guis so please write them by your own' rather17:29
papomgedmin: Hm yes I read about that philosophy and it's very appealing to me. I'm waiting for an email from the store before I place the order17:29
papomgedmin: I have to ensure that the keyboard layout is fine but then I'm ready to go17:29
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lardmanbarisione: cool, working as planned now17:30
mgedminI don't think the keyboard layout is a good reason to choose a n900 ;)17:30
qwerty12timeless: ping17:31
mgedminphysically the keys are very nice17:31
lardmanbarisione: how would the osso_abook_presence_get_location_string() parse the string?17:31
mgedminthere's too few of them, of course; entering < > or | is a pain17:31
mmlj4brilliant... now my 770 reboots about a minute after the desktop comes up17:31
mgedmin~ is even more of a pain17:31
papomgedmin: No it's about the specific layout in my country17:31
barisionelardman: it tries to parse the location that is in square brackets17:31
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mmlj4I hope the no-lifegueard-reset thing helps17:31
barisionelardman: except that it's not inside the square brackets anymore...17:31
lardmanbarisione: oh right, I've never seen one of those, only ever the @ London sort of thing17:31
papomgedmin: I saw some screenshots where some arrow keys were sacrificed for (finnish?) special characters17:31
lardmanah right :)17:32
* kalikianatoli wishes he could type accents without touching the screen17:32
papomgedmin: And I don't want that since German has umlauts but I never use them because I'm 7bit clean17:32
mgedminpapo, well, you can always choose the layout in the settings17:32
mgedminand ignore the symbols painted on the keys17:32
papomgedmin: sure but in general, this confuses me17:33
mgedminI wonder if the third level is different in different layouts17:33
mgedminbecause that would be very confusing17:33
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papoI have no idea, all I've seen is a bunch of screenshots17:33
papoI saw a German layout which had 4 cursor keys. That would be fine but I need to be sure they're shipping that one in Switzerland17:34
lardmanbarisione: do you know which component inserts the location string?17:34
barisionelardman: nope, can I can easily discover it17:34
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barisionelardman: btw, we decided to just deprecate that function and give up17:34
lardmanbarisione: just wondering if I could modify it to pass a lat lon too17:35
barisionethe location string is not supposed to be parse17:35
lardmanbarisione: ah right, does that mean there's a better location method to come...? ;)17:35
barisioneit's a human readable thing not computer readable thing so we will just deprecate that function17:35
barisionelardman: nope17:35
lardmanhmm, that's a shame17:36
* barisione hopes for harmattan17:36
lardmanI'd have thought location information would be a big killer app sort of thing, like it is with Android17:36
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lardmanwell anyway, if I can modify the component to add the lat, lon in square brackets or something of that sort, it might still be of use17:37
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hannohi. didn't find this through google - the tv-out of the n900 is "only" analog TV, right? or is it hdmi?17:55
Stskeepscomposite yeah17:55
Stskeepsno hdmi (sadly)17:56
hannooh, too bad.17:56
mgedminfuzzy-wuzzy very dark PAL/NTSC17:56
Stskeepsi had -perfect- picture on my tv17:56
Stskeepsit was better than what my computer pushes out :P17:56
ccookeditto, actually. Very clean.17:57
toggles_wStskeeps: i thought it was your computer17:57
lardmanyeah, works fine for me17:57
lardmanspent an evening watching youtube on my TV17:57
greenflyif the n900 is that similar to the openpandora, then the video chipset allows one HD connection (used for the touch screen) and an additional composite out17:57
Stskeepsgreenfly: yeah, but it's not wired up17:57
qwerty12Whee, maemo-optify is fucked up!17:58
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ccookeqwerty12: oh?17:58
greenflyStskeeps: which one isn't wired up?17:58
SpeedEvilOnly analog out - but you can have analog out and LCD on different pictures17:58
Stskeepshdmi one doesn't go external at least :P17:58
SpeedEvildisplaying different pictures17:58
qwerty12ccooke: Look at the latter end of
greenflyStskeeps: yeah I mean the "HD" connection is wired up to the actual screen17:58
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qwerty12ccooke: I also had the same problem with Transmission yesterday. Included maemo-optify version 0 to work around it.17:58
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ccookeqwerty12: ... oh dear!17:59
hannoother thing - battery time. says "with all that power, it’s easy to end up with a device that can’t do anything after 2pm!" - will we see major improvements to firmware battery usage or is there little one can do about this?18:01
Stskeepshanno: i usually have about a day's addictive usage18:02
Stskeepsand charging it overnight18:02
greenflyyeah it seems to generally last me a day, depending on what I do18:02
greenflythe package manager really drains the power though18:02
Stskeepsapt is insane like that18:03
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greenflyand if you leave some sort of auto-refreshing page open all day it might have a negative effect18:03
hannobut is it realistic to hope for improvements through firmware updates?18:03
greenfly(like google reader, for instance)18:03
greenflyfor instance in the power saving modes for the wireless card18:04
hannoa "charge once per day" phone device is somewhat problematic.18:04
hannoit's ok for business users.18:04
greenflyI don't know, I sleep at night, so does my phone18:05
Stskeepsit's like a little companion.18:05
hannoi'm happier with a phone that lasts a bit longer than a day. but hey, i'll get used to it.18:05
hannoit's just that my wife is interested in a smartphone, too.18:05
Mekif you only use it as a phone it will last a couple of days18:05
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KhertanHi !18:05
mgedminMek, you say that as if it were a good thing18:06
mgedmina phone ought to last a week18:06
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mgedminwell, okay, I'll settle for four days18:06
greenflyyeah I don't even really think of it as a phone, really18:06
povbotBug 430: Show and edit filename extensions18:06
hannoand so i wonder if the n900 is compatible.18:06
greenflyI think of it more like a pocket laptop18:06
Mekwell, if you want just a phone, don't by a portable computer that happens to make phone calls18:06
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Khertanpovbot:  ?18:06
povbotKhertan: Error: "?" is not a valid command.18:06
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Stskeepstimeless: welcome back, and watch out for the metro18:06
greenflyI mean the phone part to me is just an extra feature18:06
greenflyit's more like a pocket computer with WWAN18:06
Khertanme is tired of this "dumb user" orientation of Maemo ...18:07
timelessbeware of flood?18:07
* Khertan is tired of this "dumb user" orientation of Maemo ...18:07
Stskeepstimeless: yeah :P18:07
zaheermhanno, my wife loves her one18:07
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hannois she a nerd?18:07
hannook. :-)18:07
KhertanSomeone have already rewrite a FileChooser ?18:07
zaheermshe teaches at a nursery school18:08
Khertanfor Maemo ?18:08
hannozaheerm: how come you have a n900 already?18:08
zaheermto kids from 2 - 4 year olds18:08
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zaheermhanno, i was in amsterdam for maemo summit, with my wife :)18:08
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* timeless wonders how many wives attended18:09
hannoor husbands18:09
* timeless didn't encounter too many18:09
timelessas ancillaries of course18:09
tbfKhertan: no users → no income → no jobs → no maemo18:09
timelessi' not interested in agism18:09
* Stskeeps grimaces over Trekkies with polish dubbing.18:10
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lardmantimeless: you met mine and she argued that she didn't like the phone ;)18:10
Khertantbf: -> no developpers -> no users -> no income18:10
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* timeless nods18:10
timelessrightfully so18:10
greenflymy wife keeps eyeing my n90018:10
greenflyshe has an expressmusic 580018:10
qwerty12timeless: zenity binary that accepts an XID (--parent-window=XID): (It would be in extras-devel were it not for maemo-optify being a POS). Update your perl script to accept an XID as its second argument and pass that to any zenity invocations and I'll update the launcher to grab the XID of the CP window18:11
Khertantbf: and i not selling anything on maemo18:11
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* timeless ponders18:12
timelessi don't think my script takes any arguments18:12
hannoyay, i've got more questions about the n900...18:12
KhertanSo it s seems i need to rewrite a file chooser dialog from scratch18:12
hannois there an existing shop integration for OVI with Maemo?18:12
hannoi mean, can people sell software to the device?18:12
timelesshanno: it's assumed it will happen18:13
qwerty12timeless: How else do you propose the XID gets passed, then? :)18:13
fiferboyOh boy, about to reset the package karma on personal-photo-frame :)18:13
timelessthere are certainly hints18:13
hannotimeless: but no existing shop, yet?18:13
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qwerty12fiferboy: Don't worry, you won't have gotten much anyway; everyone knows your stuff sucks18:13
greenflyhanno: it's "coming soon"18:13
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timelessqwerty: oh,, i'm just poking at "second" v. _first_18:13
greenflyhanno: but it's already pointed to on the device out of the box18:13
fiferboyqwerty12: Shh, not everyone knows!18:13
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qwerty12fiferboy: lol. How's it going?18:14
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timelessi'll do it in an hour or so18:14
hannook. nice. this n900 keeps looking better and better. only that everybody around me keeps loving iphones or androids. meh.18:14
fiferboy2 days overdue18:14
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fiferboy^ qwerty1218:14
lardmandoes web runtime exist yet?18:14
timelesslardman: vaporware18:14
timeless(publicly at least)18:15
qwerty12fiferboy: Ah18:15
hannoare there any suggestions on why the device has been delayed? software reviews had been great, so it doesn't seem to be firmware trouble.18:15
fiferboyfiferbaby 2.0 missed the initial release date18:15
timelesshanno: there's an official statement from Peter18:15
hannotimeless: link?18:15
tbfKhertan: well, but nokia has to make money with maemo ;-)18:15
timelessbut you have three choices typically:18:15
Stskeepshanno: they wanted to add the finishing touch after the feedback from 300 devices given out at summit18:16
Stskeepstimeless: you forgot 'marketing' in there18:16
lardmantimeless: shame18:16
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timelessnah, marketing always wants to ship as soon as possible to hit sales targets or something18:16
* Stskeeps thinks current 'delay' is due to the charger replacement news18:17
timelessunless you claim marketing is using the delay to build up hype+demand18:17
timelesswhich is incredibly unlikely18:17
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Stskeepstimeless: it is certainly driving people insanely mad ;)18:17
lardmancharger replacement?18:17
hannoyes. delays seem to be hurtful in this case, since android is gaining traction with nicer devices.18:17
timelesssts: did anyone check to see if our charger is among the candidates?18:18
greenflya few weeks delay is nothing... look at openpandora :)18:18
timelessif it is, that falls squarely under "hardware" :)18:18
Stskeepstimeless: no, i'm saying it's a bad idea to announce on same day as you are in the news over 'dangerous' chargers..18:18
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crashanddieI've been told by Nokia sources that the shipment should start around November 1518:19
Stskeepsit made it to newspapers here too18:19
timelessoh, that'd be 4. marketing18:19
crashanddieBut then again, they were told that it would ship last week as well18:19
timelessit made
crashanddieThey did assure me that the shipping would start "before christmas"18:19
timelessand iirc it was above droid18:19
kirmastskeeps: N900 ships with AC-10, which is not on the replacement list18:19
Stskeepskirma: that's not the point. the point is, would you want to announce a cool device at same day of big headlines of 'nokia chargers potentially dangerous'18:20
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timelessmarketing could reasonably ask to wait one week18:20
timelessto avoid colliding w/ ... less than positive news items18:21
zaheermsounds reasonable18:22
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kirmastskeeps: I kind of keep forgetting there are people that aren't personally involved with nokia, or at least with nokia employees :I18:26
kirmaand have all kinds of superstitions18:26
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lardmaninteresting that Google Latitude comes up as unsupported if you go to it with the browser on the N900 (with it saying what the device is)18:27
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Stskeepskirma: i can still have a lot of superstitions even if i know a small bunch of nokians by now :P18:28
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kirmawell, superstitions maybe, but not exactly the sort that'd be about real danger18:29
lcukStskeeps, is the multi frame tv out accessible via code, or just hypothosised?18:29
lcuki know its fine for yuv cos its testable18:29
kirma"multi frame" ?18:29
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lcukoutput a different videoscreen to the tvout than what is shown on the lcd18:30
Stskeepskirma: living in poland has given me a lot more respect for unstable electricity18:30
lcuki can show liqbase on tvout whilst running gtk desktop on the lcd18:30
Khertanand can you show a FileChooserDialog with file extension ?18:31
Khertanhi lcuk18:31
lcuklol hi Khertan18:31
* kirma wonders when his 2 euro USB charger, identical to some ipod/iphone charger, will blow up18:32
kirmawell, if it does, there's another ;)18:32
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greenflyis anyone hanging out here that is working on the wireless power management software?18:32
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greenflyjust wondering if anyone is looking into the issue that pops up with ssh+screen on wireless with power management all the way up18:32
timelesssounds like keepalive18:33
greenflyor (even better) if there is some public bug # I can just follow18:33
timelessand sometimes a stupid wifi router18:33
greenflyin this case it has occurred with a few different wireless connections18:33 has <<10,000 items18:33
timelesssurely you could try searching18:33
Khertantimeless: and how many in won't fix ? :)18:34
kirmabtw: if anyone wants to buy a cheap nokia CA-100 from china, dealextreme sells those. but fantastically enough, they have removed the voltage upconverter from it ;)18:34
greenflyessentially a remote screen session will stall and now draw to the screen although key presses go through18:34
timelessthis isn't w/ nerly 500,000 items18:34
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greenflytimeless: I was just curious. I'm aware how what I just said came off, but I'm truly not looking for support on it, more just chatting about it18:34
timeless"now" or "not"?18:34
Stskeepsgreenfly: that you can't SSH in from outside?18:35
Stskeepsor the other18:35
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greenflyStskeeps: I can ssh out fine, I expect a little lag with wireless power management on (after all that's how it works essentially) but this so far only shows up when you connect to a remote screen session18:36
mgedmingreenfly, how do you know key presses go through?  simultaneous screen -x on the internal xterm?18:36
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greenflymgedmin: yeah, when I reconnect to the screen session from elsewhere I can see the effect of my key presses18:37
timeless@flood area18:37
timelessshould i take photos?18:37
wazdok, moscow is out :)18:37
lcukyeah timeless how bad is it?18:37
lcuki heard multiple stations had been closed18:37
lcukbut how is it above ground18:37
greenflyI'm not quite sure what it is about screen that triggers it18:37
greenflybut I do see it (to a lesser degree) when I run something like mutt18:37
greenflyagain this doesn't show up with the 3g connection18:38
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greenflyI can also bump up the power saving mode on the wireless connection to intermediate and it's fine18:38
greenflyAFAIK it's a known issue, and again I'm not trying to use this channel as a bugzilla, just chatting about it18:38
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greenflyin the grand scheme of things it's not a dealbreaker or anything, there are certainly bigger fish to fry18:39
timelesssp3000, ping18:39
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greenflywhat I wonder if whether there's something about ncurses programs in a terminal that is triggering it18:40
mgedminI think I've seen something like this18:43
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sp3000timeless: png18:55
mgedminoptimized png?18:56
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mgedminoh, *awesome*19:29
mgedminthe whole day I thought my n900 was charging19:29
mgedminit wasn't19:29
mgedminbug 600419:30
povbotBug N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable19:30
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suihkulokkimgedmin: on pc side lsusb as root should show if the pc thinks it is giving power19:33
mgedminon the pc side lsbus doesn't see anything19:33
infobotmgedmin meant: on the pc side lsusb doesn't see anything19:33
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papohum the more I look at it, the more I find this N900 thing awesome19:41
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mgedminyep, it's awesome19:43
mgedminnot perfect, but awesome19:43
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* lardman is unimpressed that Firefox geolocation seems to think he's in Brum19:43
mgedminyou will pry mine only from my dead cold fingers19:43
mgedminor when a n1000 appears19:43
mgedminor when the 6 months expire and I have to give it back, but by then I'll have one of my own19:43
zaheermlardman, are you even close to brum?19:44
papomgedmin: Hm tell me about this awesomeness because I don't have the device yet19:44
lardmanin Bath, so only 70 miles or so ;)19:44
mgedminpapo, have you checked out youtube videos?19:44
zaheermlardman, so give or take a cpl hundred miles it's good :)19:44
mgedminthere were a bunch of them just demoing the web browser19:44
mgedminwhich is nice, but only when compared to other mobile browsers19:44
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qwerty12lardman: See? Even the N900 doesn't like Bath19:45
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papomgedmin: yes, but I'm never sure what I'm looking at, how beta the software is etc.19:45
lardmanzaheerm: right hemisphere at least! :)19:45
* mgedmin seems to be very set on lowering people's expectations, so they go "whoa" when they actually get one19:45
lardmanqwerty12: nah, was PC, N900 is quite happy19:45
papomgedmin: For instance, what about the battery time? I found quite inconclusive numbers on the net19:45
mgedminthe beta software that we have is sometimes noticeably beta19:45
mgedminbattery life is kinda sad; I charge mine twice a day19:46
mgedminso maybe 7 hours of light nonstop use19:46
papouh. but you play a lot with it, don't you?19:46
papohm ok19:46
mgedminsomebody measured ~90 hours of complete idleness19:46
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papomgedmin: Is there a huge impact when the wifi radio is on?19:47
cehtehmhm .. still fixing bugs here ... i hoped for shipping really soon :/19:47
courmischIMU, it is shipping19:47
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mgedmindunno, my outlook is: I will damn well enable every feature I want to enable, let the battery adjust to me rather than forcing me to adjust to it19:48
* lardman ponders how he can actually see the location of his wife's phone on Google Latitude19:48
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papohm ok19:48
mgedminso, wifi or 3g on, gps on, bluetooth on19:48
cehtehcourmisch: where?19:48
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cehtehdoes the gps draw much power?19:48
Proteousmgedmin charges his phone every 5 minutes19:48
mgedminwell, the gps bit is "go on every 30 minutes or so, to update my location in the instant messenging status"19:48
mgedminand I'm not sure it actually uses the gps, maybe it does everything from cell tower info19:49
mgedmingps on a n810 was a battery killer19:49
courmischI wouldn't know about such details19:49
papohm I wouldn't use the GPS much anyway. Maybe when I go out jogging, to record the track. That would be cool19:50
cehtehyes, but how about n900, the hardware is quite different19:50
cehtehi need gps quite much19:50
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lcuki still wonder how gps will work in locations where i want it19:51
lcuklike indoors at locations19:51
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mgedminlcuk, gps -- no, location services -- yes (assuming you've got a sim card inserted)19:52
mgedminthe n900's gps is basically useless without a sim card19:52
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* lcuk knows19:52
lcukmgedmin, but there is still a prob19:52
lcukin local supermarket19:52
* RST38h moos at confirms what mgdemin says19:52
lcuki cant even get phone signal19:52
lcukso i cant even call the missus let alone do anything gpsey19:53
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mgedminI have that problem in my apartment19:54
mgedminsome spots have 3.5 g, some have no cellular access at all, even though they're 5cm apart19:54
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fralswow the "n900 shipping delayed" is really sad now19:54
lcukmy old phone had a problem in old workplace19:54
cehteheh .. gps useless without sim-card?19:54
lcukthere was a blackhole19:54
mgedminlocation services kinda work (they show me as being 2 streets over), so don't expect voice navigation to help you find the milk aisle19:54
RST38hmgedmin: Simply tell your N900 not to use 3G19:55
mgedmincehteh, waiting 6 minutes for a GPS fix sucks19:55
* RST38h cackles19:55
cehtehdoes it make calls for agps and charge money for that?19:55
lcukmgedmin, 2 streets over isnt very good when you send a nice lady your location and shes trying to find you19:55
mgedminand the software seems to have some timeouts that stop string in 5 minutes, so you end up never getting a fix19:55
SpeedEvilRST38h: That'll cause some carriers to drop you19:55
* RST38h found 3G signal at some coffee shop a while ago: it totally confused his N90019:55
infobotmgedmin meant: and the software seems to have some timeouts that stop trying in 5 minutes, so you end up never getting a fix19:55
RST38hSpeed: Why?19:55
cehtehmgedmin: yes i read on the n810 it needs to read in the almanac again19:55
SpeedEvilRST38h: they mandate that you must have a 3G capable phone - as they have poor GSM capacity, or rely on someone elses GSM19:56
SpeedEvil(hence GSM costs lots19:56
cehtehbut thats rather a software problem, not caching it19:56
SpeedEvil(for them)19:56
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cehtehwell and i dont want GPS dialing into wifi and charge money for that19:56
RST38hSpeed: weird crap19:56
cehtehthat would be really ugly19:57
RST38hSpeed: I do not think mgedmin is in that kind of an area though: GSM worked fine for me in .LT19:57
mgedminnah, I'm currently in Sweden19:57
SpeedEvilRST38h: Oh - GSM works. It's just that if you lock it on GSM you will get dropped.19:58
mgedminalthough my semi-basement apartment in .lt also has extremely poor gsm19:58
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* RST38h has got perfectly good GSM behind 1m of concrete, but the glassy office building at work has problems with GSM19:59
RST38hMust be the aluminium panels it is covered with =)20:00
mgedminconcrete is transparent to microwaves, I think20:00
mgedmins/I think/as far as I know/20:00
infobotmgedmin meant: concrete is transparent to microwaves, as far as I know20:00
lcukthe walls at the local asda are made up of unobtanium then20:00
RST38hmgedmin: anything >1/2 wavelength is a problem20:01
RST38hmgdmin: of course, any conductor is a problem as well20:01
mgedminI'm sure the volume of air between me and the nearest cell tower is >1/2 wavelenght20:01
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RST38hmgedmin: well, anything solid =)20:02
RST38hof course it is up to discussion if concrete is truly solid :)20:02
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cehtehit contains water20:04
RST38hYohoooo! N900 appeared in eStore20:04
RST38hcenteh: and air, usually20:04
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lardmanhmm, although it's possible to use FF geolocation with Google maps, it doesn't filter through to Latitude; shame20:04
cehtehwell water sucks up microwaves and transforms them into heat20:04
cehtehguess how a microwave oven works20:05
RST38hwater is a conductor, yes20:05
* RST38h googles for concrete microwaves20:05
lardmandepends on the electron energies of course20:05
RST38hAnd google ANSWERS:
* lcuk microwaves RST38h's concrete bits20:06
* RST38h is an interrupt, have you forgotten?20:06
lcuko2 are silly20:07
lcuki rung 4445 customer service number20:07
lcukbut im out of credit20:07
lcukand its telling me to ring customer service20:07
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RST38hisn't customer service number supposed to be free?20:08
lcuk<lcuk> o2 are silly20:08
cehtehso did anyone answered my question if A-GPS will be charged?20:08
* RST38h learned the meaning of the word "rebar" in the process. Something new every day, yessss...20:09
lcukcehteh, if you connect and use data on a service plan that needs data, i expect you would pay for it20:09
lcukand since it failed for me cos i had no credit20:09
lcuki assume its not included in the no data section20:09
lardmancehteh: but Nokia don't charge for the assistance data, no20:10
cehteheh what?20:10
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lcuknokia themselves dont charge you, but there may be a charge to get from your service provider to nokias servers20:11
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lcuki think20:11
lardmanNokia provide the data from their supl server20:11
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lcukwhat # do i call to find out remaining credit20:13
* lardman wonders why the iGoogle lataitude plugin will only use Gears to determine location20:13
lardmanlcuk: no clue, sorry20:13
lcuki think they just charged me 25p to tell me theres a free number to call to do what i wanted20:14
lardmanthat's how they make their money ;)20:14
cehtehah ok thanks20:14
lcuknot really, cos now im not calling that number and will instead go see if any other mobile providers are better20:14
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lcukwho are you with simon20:15
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lardmanI don't imagine the great and vonderous Wodafone will be better TBH20:16
qwerty12I bet...20:16
kalikianatoliWodafone is just as bad as D-Mobile I bet :-]20:17
lardmanThey are all a bunch of money-grabbing buggers I think20:17
* qwerty12 quite likes T-Mobile, in the UK anyway...20:17
lcukqwerty12, :( with o2 i cant use torrents20:19
lcukor voip20:19
lcukor anything20:19
* lardman wonders why everyone can't just get along and use the same geolocation methods20:19
mgedminbecause then life would be _simple_20:19
lcukcos then we would know where they stand20:19
lardmanannoying tho20:19
lcukis the n900 considered a phone20:19
lcukor a computer with modem20:20
RST38hlardman: better mousetrap complex =)20:20
RST38hlcuk: Phone. Don't you ever call it computer at your cellular provider, or it will be extra =)20:20
* lcuk nods20:20
lcukYou may not use your SIM Card:20:20
lcuk   1. in, or connected to, any other device including modems;20:20
kynkyits a primarily a mid and secondaily a phone afaik20:20
lcukthe woman in o2 shop looked down her nose when i mentioned i wanted unlimited 3g data on my mobile20:21
lcukthen got all "oooh" when she saw it was an n90020:21
* mgedmin wants unlimited 3g data too :(20:22
lcuktoo late wench! she missed her chance at holding the real ultimate power!20:22
lardmanyou didn't just whip it out for her? ;)20:22
qwerty12...with liqbase running on it?20:22
cehtehhas maemo a syslog?20:24
lardmancehteh: iirc only if you install the daemon20:24
lcukoooh mobile internet isnt full internet20:24
lardmanksyslogd or similar20:24
* lcuk feels cheated20:24
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cehtehwell i consider to port my C/C++ debugging lib to maemo, maybe its of use for someone :)20:25
cehtehat least for me to see how portable it is :)20:25
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lcukhow the hell can i speak to a real human at o220:25
lcukdo i need to sacrifice my first born?20:25
lcuk(he wont be happy)20:26
zaheermlcuk, in sales or support?20:26
lcukjust someone from earth20:26
qwerty12lcuk: it's worse: you have to sacrifice two20:26
lcukthats ok ive got a spare20:26
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lardmanqwerty12: don't forget the goat20:26
qwerty12lcuk: it's worse: you have to sacrifice two and lardman20:26
zaheermlcuk, i have a friend who owns am o2 store but not sure what o2 retail will be able to do for you :)20:26
lardmanthat is indeed bad20:27
lcuk:D they will send me a free text20:27
lcukheh the dialing pad on the n900 in speaker mode can overload itself20:28
mgedminI love some operator ads: "50 free SMS for just $10!"20:28
lcukif you play it like a musical instrument20:28
lcukmusical fun!20:28
lcukwithout needing to download anything20:28
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lcukive spent £1 making 1 25p call and then 1 free call.20:29
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zaheermlcuk, human or robot?20:35
lcuk30 minutes and i found a lovely human called kim20:36
qwerty12_N900lcuk: Switched network, already? :p20:36
lcukno :$ i chickened out20:36
mikhasodd, I reinstalled my scratchbox installation, and after adding nokia's token repo (+ fakeroot apt-get update) it says it cannot resolve the nokia-binaries deps. What am I missing?20:36
Stskeepscheck your /etc/resolv.conf and /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf20:37
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crashanddie_my order on topman has been canceled20:39
crashanddie_I call them, and the guy asks "May I ask why this is such a high quantity order?"20:39
crashanddie_since when is 3 shirts, 3 pairs of shoes and a pair of jeans high quantity for a bloody internet retailer? It's not even £200!20:39
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SpeedEvilClearly terrorists have 6 legs.20:43
* lardman spies a way to interrogate Google Latitude locations :)20:43
crashanddie_And he just asked for the 3rd time if I'm sure I live at the address I put on there. You bloody tool, if the EMV 3D check accepted the order, it means not only were my banking details correct, but I even confirmed with my bank I wanted to place the order20:44
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crashanddie_SpeedEvil, no, 6 feet, but only 2 legs20:44
lardmancrashanddie: your mistake was to shop at TopMan ;)20:44
crashanddie_lardman, well they have cool stuff!20:44
crashanddie_and their sale makes it bloody inexpensive20:44
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lardmanthis is true20:44
crashanddie_£10 for a pair of jeans? Hell yeah, bring it on baby20:45
* lardman tries to avoid shopping20:45
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crashanddie_lardman, yeah, but I live on my own, and have to celebrate my raise :P20:45
lardmanyeah, that sounds quite reasonable - long lunch tomorrow then... :)20:45
crashanddie_you have a wife and a mortgage and stuff :P Plus you live in Bath :D20:45
lardmancrashanddie: hmm, s/jeans/champagne and hookers20:45
crashanddie_a pair of champagne?20:45
lardmanyeah, they'll want some too won't they?!20:46
crashanddie_"Waiter? I'll have a pair of champagne please." "Two bottles sir?" "No, just a pair"20:46
crashanddie_Reminds me of the Ukraine20:47
crashanddie_[in a hotel] "I'm sorry, do you sell cigarettes?" "No sir, not anymore" "Oh come on, but you've even got prostitutes!" "Yes sir, at the bar"20:48
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crashanddie_now the guy calls me to say the items are out of stock...20:50
crashanddie_Fucking plonkers20:50
crashanddie_"Do you still want to place your order?" <-- Are these guys actually trying to fail at business?20:50
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RST38hno, they are following a well known joke20:53
crashanddie_which is?20:54
RST38hAbout a guy bragging that his approach to women is to ask "Should I fuck you?"20:54
RST38h"But ain't you getting beaten up for that? -- Yea, usually. But I get laid often enough too."20:54
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GeneralAntillesMan, went through a dozen or so threads on Talk this morning, SNR has really gone in the can since I stopped updating regularly.21:10
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qwerty12_N900freejazz missed you21:11
RST38hGeneral: I pretty much stopped following21:13
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qwerty12_N900Dear freenode-connect, stop raping my client. Yours faithfully, qwerty1221:18
RST38hqwerty: Btw, how do you control distance between items in Transmissing config dialog?21:18
* RST38h sticks 'em into vbox, but the distance between them is too small21:19
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qwerty12_N900The distance between the items looks pretty much the same as it is in any other app with a dialog, TBH21:21
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RST38hhmm...mine is smaller21:22
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RST38hI don't have one, yet21:25
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qwerty12_N900Gah, hit Ctrl + Shift + P, already :)21:25
RST38hIt is a windows laptop, what CtrlShiftP? =)21:26
GeneralAntillesShould still work in the SDK.21:26
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Stskeepsit's a hd key21:28
Stskeepsctrl-shift-x too21:28
acidjazzso n900 ships the 14th?21:28
rangeIt does?21:28
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, I mean, really, there's hardly a recognizable face left there.21:29
acidjazzthats the latest post on the maemo forum21:29
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acidjazzaccording to someone who called amazon amazon has them in stock and is waiting on nokia21:29
sjgadsbyWhere does Mail for Exchange store configuration data?21:29
sjgadsbyGeneralAntilles: Yeah, I was suspecting that. I'd hoped it wouldn't be the case though.21:30
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: On Talk? True. It's just full of people who are upset about the N900 being a phone or the loonies who can't wait for it and feel the urge to start threads that end up spanning a shitton of pages just to tell us this21:30
RST38hEven worse21:31
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, the "Why should I work for free?" thread is scary.21:31
lcukGeneralAntilles the SNR has gone down to you cos people are no longer mentioning your name any more21:31
RST38hIt is full of people who do not know what they are talking about21:31
qwerty12_N900And, of course, the idiots who join up just to say the N900 sucks and they've ordered another phone21:31
GeneralAntillesRST38h, and there's nobody left to correct them.21:31
RST38hAnd do not know that they do not know21:31
Proteousthe n900 suckks SIDEKICK FOR LIFE!!!21:32
RST38hGeneral: Well, that isn't much of a problem21:32
RST38hBut having to read through all that clueless chatter is tiresome21:32
* GeneralAntilles groans.21:32
Stskeepsthe positive side is that once all the freaks get their n900, constructive people will be back21:32
fralsjust read that aswell >_<21:33
lcukthe greeters might actually help :)21:33
RST38hWho is this guy and what the hell is his problem?21:33
GeneralAntillesTalk about clueless.21:33
lcukits hrw21:33
GeneralAntilleslcuk, hahaha21:33
RST38hno way21:33
lcukshutup gan, just cos you've resigned from that job21:33
lcukyeah rst21:33
lcukhes not a nobody who knows nothing21:34
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's not hrw.21:34
lcuksure? i was positive21:34
w00tStskeeps: you calling me a freak?21:34
RST38hMental note: when I see hrw here, have to tell him to stop bitching, it looks bad for him21:34
GeneralAntillesThat's not a "marcinw", lcuk. :)21:34
qwerty12_N900hrw has the username of hrw on Talk21:35
lcukretracts statement21:35
GeneralAntillesBesides, how in the world could you confuse _hrw_ with THAT SHIT?!21:35
* frals retracts lcuk21:35
RST38hOk, another marcin21:35
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* RST38h always trusted into hrw, the marcinw guy is some impostor21:36
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lcukme too21:36
Stskeepsbesides that, bluetooth is entirely possible in SDK isn't it? :P21:36
* lbt notes that marcinw is not a native speaker21:36
lcukapologies for mixing you up hwr21:36
RST38hlbt: Neither is hrw, but that does not prevent him from being reasonable21:37
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, nice.21:37
hrwmarcinw is Marcin Wiacek - the guy behind Gammu21:38
qwerty12_N900RST38h: I'm using wazd's theme but I would have to say they look the same21:38
qwerty12_N900Hiya, hrw21:38
lcukhi hrw, see above lol, sorry for mistaking you21:38
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RST38hqwerty: Aren't distances between your buttons bigger?21:38
hrwlcuk: I also have Marcin as name ;D21:38
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lcukyes and you also rarely post on tmo21:39
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Hard to tell, but, yeah, I think they are - just a little. Lemme switch themes and check again21:39
fralsah, at last! more thanks then posts \o/21:39
* hrw goes to read that marcinw post21:39
qwerty12_N900Oh, sjgadsby, I've got a gconf-editor binary if you need it21:40
GeneralAntillesImpinging hardworking contributors in the community and Nokia in one post is not a good way to make friends. ;)21:40
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sjgadsbyqwerty12_N900: Thanks, but I think I'm finding what I need using gconftool. I'll be in touch if I need your superior app though.21:41
RST38hWell, Nokia isn't making it good for the community's mental health21:41
hrwyou know what? I understand Marcin21:42
RST38hhrw: even that does not make him sound reasonable21:42
hrwthats other thing21:42
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hrwRST38h: read my posts from n8x0 developer program time21:43
hrwRST38h: the 'if you live in wrong part of europe we will ignore you' thing was present then21:43
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Ah, yes, now that I've switched theme, I can also see the bigger spacing. A sec - I'll look for the line21:43
RST38hhrw: I live in such a wrong part of Europe, that I am not even complaining21:44
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Stskeepspeople need to see the difference between maemo devices and rest of nokia though..21:45
Stskeepsthe mentality difference is important21:45
* lbt glances at hrw's comment and goes to do some paid work for....erm.... a large finish company who make small electronic devices.... in the UK21:45
* w00t lols21:45
hrwStskeeps: remember that for some people n900 == phone not n900 == tablet21:46
Stskeepshrw: yes, i know21:46
RST38hlbt: Isn't it the end of workday?21:46
lbtit's not perfect... and I have been lucky21:46
hrwmost of my complains will be related to n900==phone things21:46
lbtRST38h: not for me...21:46
RST38hhrw: may I ask why one should make this distinction?21:46
w00thrw: and yet, i'm the exact opposite21:46
Stskeepsbut honestly.. complaining about BT support in SDK is a bit awkward21:46
w00tthe only reason i'm buying an n900 is because i can use it as a phone, as well as a tablet21:46
Stskeepsas far as i can tell, it is technically possible if you disable the host bluetooth impl21:47
hrwRST38h: when 770 was released it was definitelly not a phone. n8x0 just followed that and people were used that it is not a phone.21:47
w00tStskeeps: that seems a bit awkward though21:47
lcuki keep picking up my monitor and wondering why it doesnt respond when i tilt it21:47
hrwRST38h: n900 had to have just 3g modem inside (maemo summit 2008 talk). so it would still be tablet.21:47
w00tlcuk: throw it around the room21:47
Stskeepsw00t: there's no other way to do it sanely otherwise except for qemu stuff like hrw's excellent work :P21:47
w00tit'll respond -- just not in the way you want21:47
lcukno w00t it might hit my N90021:48
RST38hhrw: well, then it would not have a chance to get out of its niche21:48
lcukor even worse, it might break my N90021:48
w00tStskeeps: any alternative sounds sane really21:48
hrwRST38h: but now when they added 3g modem for talk+data... people not from tablet world will start using it. And they will use it as a phone21:48
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lbtlcuk: do you keep touching your laptop screen too?  I do.21:48
qwerty12_N900lcuk: The N900 is like Superman21:48
RST38hhrw: isn't it good?21:48
Stskeepshrw: it did help with the way the phone is used.. it's 'just' a voice over 3g and IM over SMS addition21:48
lcuklbt, my x41 is touchscreen (albeit pen based)21:48
RST38hmore users etc21:48
* lbt sniffs21:48
lcukits also got accelerometers21:49
lcukbut thats by the by21:49
* lbt sniffs again21:49
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w00tapp suggestion: detect when being thrown, and make a sobbing noise when it hits something21:49
lcuklbt, but pen based != perfect21:49
lcukcertainly for windowing OS21:49
lcukit needs touch friendly os21:49
SpeedEvilw00t: Descending scream when droped21:49
SpeedEvilw00t: getting louder as the fall increases21:49
* lbt thinks if he knows one21:49
Stskeepsw00t: oh yes.21:49
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w00tSpeedEvil: YES.21:49
lcukbut its gonna be painful using maemo, my arm wont like reaching to the top of the screen for everything21:49
w00twaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh *thump*21:50
w00tI'd love that21:50
w00teven though I'd not make a habit of dropping my n90021:50
sjgadsbyWhat Fremantle SDK/tools package contains "strings" and how much trouble am I going to cause for myself by installing it on device?21:50
RST38hAnd when you power it down, it should say "NO, you DON'T!"21:50
lcukcould it selectively spinup the harddrive to try and balance itself21:50
lbthi gnuton21:50
qwerty12_N900w00t: I wonder who'd test it when it came to promoting it from extras-testing...21:50
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lcukand do the "ooh  ahhhhh aooooooh" sound21:51
w00tRST38h: nah, selectively use lines from hal900021:51
lcukbefore finally toppling off21:51
fiferboyhey gnuton21:51
w00tqwerty12_N900: haha.21:51
Stskeepswhen hitting, it starts making a cry like peter in family guy when he gets injured21:51
qwerty12_N900sjgadsby: binutils21:51
gnutonhei fiferboy..21:52
w00tStskeeps: hahaha.21:52
hrwRST38h: I know one thing. now I sometimes use two devices: E66 phone and N810 tablet. and tablet is just to watch some tv series on a go when phone covers mail (imapssl), pim (calendar/todo/contacts/syncing), games, rare web browsing, rare IM, sometimes photo which sometimes also mean MMS. n900 will have to replace both.21:52
Robot101hrw: I just replaced my E66 with an N90021:52
sjgadsbyqwerty12_N900: Doh. That makes sense. Thanks! Any danger installing it on my N900? It doesn't break busybox?21:52
Robot101hrw: IM and web browsing is a hell of a lot easier, so became less rare for sure...21:53
RST38hhrw: and it will21:53
Robot101hrw: MMS is a fail, but otherwise everything else is better21:53
Robot101I can even use my own damn headphones21:53
RST38hhrw: n900 is worth using just for its unified messaging and address book21:53
Stskeepswhat RST38h said21:53
hrwRobot101: but not AD-44 controls ;(21:53
RST38hhrw: although you will definitely miss the green button (tm)21:54
qwerty12_N900sjgadsby: I've got it installed on mine and it did not break busybox for me21:54
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hrwRST38h: I will also miss AD-44 (or AD-54 for n900 due to 3.5mm) music controls21:54
sjgadsbyqwerty12_N900: Keen, thanks! I'm just extra cautious without public firmware to fall back upon.21:54
lcukhrw is there a technical reason or are the commands being sent, but ignored?21:54
Robot101hrw: trade-off for video output I think...21:54
hrwlcuk: I think that it is just software (kernel driver)21:55
Robot101isn't that wire used for video out on the N900?21:55
hrwlcuk: you have headset button working with n900 - right?21:55
lcukheadset button?21:55
lcuki never got official headphones21:55
lardmannor me21:55
hrwlcuk: take ones from n8x0 then21:55
RST38hhrw: Nokia sells 3-4 types of BT headphones21:56
hrwHS-47 headset21:56
lardmanborken for me21:56
lcukerrr those got broke years ago21:56
RST38hhrw: Just buy a pair you like and use it21:56
BluesLeehow are the stand by time son the n900?21:56
hrwRST38h: FM radio require headphones for antenna21:56
RST38hhrw: yea, but will you use the radio?21:56
hrwRST38h: I do a lot21:56
* RST38h does not have much use for the radio21:56
lcukBluesLee, "how girl get pragnent?"21:57
hrwRST38h: I like to listen to radio when I am abroad (if I find English speaking one)21:57
hrwRST38h: it also gives me newer songs to listen then ones on phone21:57
BluesLeelcuk: give me some numbers please21:57
lcukahhh i just deciphered that21:58
hrwRST38h: vagalume == 3G data == costs21:58
RST38hbtw, vagalume still not ported to n900 =)21:58
lcuki dunno i cant leave it alone long enough to fade out through stand by21:58
Stskeepsvagalume needs to be ported.21:58
RST38hhrw: oh21:58
GeneralAntillesRST38h, isn't it a Star?21:58
Stskeepsi got so desperate i set up upnp.21:58
RST38hGeneral: does it have any reliation to being ported? :)21:58
RST38hMaemo Mapper is also a star...21:58
qwerty12_N900RST38h and Stskeeps: Look at the Gitorious page21:58
qwerty12_N900for Vagalume21:59
GeneralAntillesRST38h, so is FBReader. :(21:59
lcukBluesLee, my phone happily sits and is usable every single time i need it,  but i do exactly the same with this as i have done with every other phone ever21:59
hrwvagalume basically just need recompile to be usable. then someone to change settings to finger friendly21:59
RST38hhrw: Pretty much the only radio I ever listen to is PBS, but it is US only :)21:59
GeneralAntillesStars program isn't 100% successful. . . .21:59
GeneralAntillesRST38h, PBS? :P21:59
Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: ah, good, it's being worked on21:59
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RST38hSorry, NPR21:59
* RST38h always messes these two up21:59
BluesLeelcuk: hmm22:00
Jaffatbf: I'm not violating Facebook's TOS as I'm not fetching phone numbers and full addresses from Facebook. Nor am I proxying the user's creednetials. Whoever told you I was was talking bbollocks.22:00
lcukBluesLee, hmm?22:00
BluesLeeGeneralAntilles: do you have standby times of the n900?22:00
GeneralAntillesBluesLee, Nokia has the numbers in the specs PDF.22:00
BluesLeeGeneralAntilles: okay, will search it22:01
lcukdoes anyone just leave their pre prod phone alone22:01
lcuki know i dont22:01
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tbfJaffa: obviously.22:02
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* qwerty12_N900 gives Jaffa knuckledusters: release the fury!22:02
greenflylcuk: heh not here22:02
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* lardman passes over the nunchuks22:03
tbfJaffa: actually i wondered when you added such stuff22:03
Jaffaqwerty12_N900: Rar22:03
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hrwJaffa: how Palm Pre handle facebook stuff?22:03
BluesLeeGeneralAntilles: do you have a linkto that pdf?22:03
GeneralAntillesBluesLee, not handy. 2-4 days was the number they quoted, I believe.22:04
Jaffahrw: I don't know. Not investigated. Imagine it's a deal between Palm and Facebook.22:04
GeneralAntillesBluesLee, keep in mind that nobody here has production firmware.22:04
tbfJaffa: but as some guy highlighted me and claimed i'd have claimed such stuff i wanted to drop you that information about FB TOS22:04
GeneralAntillesSo any number we give you may change when the device is released.22:04
tbfJaffa: well, but as it seems this madness is old news to you22:04
tbfhrw: i have confirmed information that there is a public API and another API for companies which pay22:04
BluesLeeGeneralAntilles: you are right, but 2-4 days doesnt sound too much22:05
hrwok, good to know22:05
hrwanyway I do not use FB too much22:05
lcukis facebook good or evil22:05
Robot101mostly evil22:05
tbfso much about owning your data in the cloud22:05
Robot101like google its an advertising platform, but google do it by taking you to other people's useful information22:06
GeneralAntillesBluesLee, it's a laptop in your pocket, not a phone.22:06
lcukmostly Robot101? you mean there are redeeming qualities?22:06
Robot101web searches, videos, images, e-mails, XMPP, etc22:06
Robot101facebook locks all of those things in22:06
kirmablueslee: recent blog post on planet maemo had some idle measurements on ogg playback length post22:06
Robot101and offers a demeaningly restricted API to get in and access the info22:06
BluesLeekirma: yeah, about 93 hours22:07
tbfRobot101: well, FB tries to justify those limitations with protecting users from data harvesters22:07
GeneralAntillestbf, unless they have money. ;)22:07
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kirmaI charge my phone every night anyway, so it's not really so bad. I'm more concerned about background applications sneakily eating the battery in an hour or something22:08
tbfRobot101: and if you consider how easy non-geek fb users are on taking quizzes and such, i am 30% tempted to believe them.22:08
kirma(mostly referring to web pages)22:08
lcukkirma, ive run some sneaky apps and ive never managed to drain my battery in an hour22:08
GeneralAntilleskirma, I got about 6 hours at ~70% CPU with the screen off the other day.22:08
kirmawell, that's good :)22:09
kirmabut even 4-6 hours is bad user experience if user doesn't comprehend what was causing it, and nothing alerted him about it...22:10
kirmaand typically, he could have been without that drain.22:10
tbfRobot101: would suck if every anonymous harvester would get my high quality address data, just 'cause some friend takes a quiz22:10
Robot101tbf: right22:10
tbfRobot101: well, but yes: FB could fix that22:10
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cehteh /lib/ No such file or directory  ... mhm22:15
* lcuk thinks about liqbase dev using the shortest possible apt-get line from stock22:17
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RST38hTurkish spam.22:21
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sjgadsbySelect all, Move threads, Off-Topic, Ok22:44
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GAN900Damn SMS light is flashing, but I don't have any new ones.22:53
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GeneralAntillessjgadsby, lol.22:53
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GeneralAntillesI really don't like the discount program being handled through Forum Nokia.23:01
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greenflyhopefully this will mean they will open up free SIP gvoice calls for more than 3 mins at a time23:02
greenflyif so, then we won't need a special google voice plugin for the n900 contact list23:02
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Shapeshifterdamn... the micro of my mobile went busted23:10
sjgadsbymarcinw is Frank Wagner with commas in place of hyphens.23:10
Shapeshiftern900 should get released. I want one.23:10
Shapeshifterdon't care if the software is buggy23:10
Shapeshiftergimme ;)23:11
qwerty12_N900sjgadsby: And we all know of how he went into hibernation in the end...23:11
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wazd"HD2 has 1ghz processor and 448MB ram, why not the n900? " jeez...23:14
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greenflyheh, could be worse, "HD2 has windows mobile, why not the n900?"  :)23:15
Shapeshiftereww, it's windows23:15
* qwerty12_N900 stares at greenfly in shock23:15
qwerty12_N900The sad thing is, I wouldn't past someone to actually post that23:16
qwerty12_N900+put it23:16
greenflyI'm sure the post would also be in the form of some threat23:16
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greenflyie. "Nokia is missing out on a huge market opportunity here!" etc etc23:16
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Shapeshifterbut yeah, I guess greenfly has a point in that devices are getting faster by the minute23:17
javispedrowhy, oh, why every day there's news about the DDP I get sick. And I mean literally.23:17
Shapeshifterso. how about releasing the n900 -.-23:17
Shapeshiftereveryone wants to buy one.23:17
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, oh, they have.23:18
prometoyshi, does anyboddy use git on the device (n900/freemantle)?23:18
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, fanoush's point in that thread is interesting.23:18
GeneralAntillesNot all of that may be available to the user.23:18
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GeneralAntillesprometoys, lcuk does, I believe.23:18
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, why sick?23:19
GeneralAntillesNo warranty, NDA agreement, and obnoxious credit card issues make the DPP pretty damn irritating.23:19
prometoysGeneralAntilles,  but there isn't an official package, or?23:19
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: *facepalm*23:19
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GeneralAntillesprometoys, think it's in the Tools repo.23:19
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, the whole process on DPP end-to-end has been unpleasant.23:20
javispedroGeneralAntilles: I really mean literally sick. I wake up with quite high fever this morning. I fear H1N1, but then again I'm still alive so it can't be that isn't it? :)23:20
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, lol.23:20
serenitybtw battery: is there any progress in the enduser-device?23:20
Shapeshifteruhm... wha'ts DPP23:20
GeneralAntillesI mean, hope you feel better. :P23:20
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, the N900 discount program.23:20
lcukprometoys, its still in the diablo-extras repo23:20
javispedroI do, I'm high on (legal) drugs now23:20
Shapeshifterexcuse my ignorance23:20
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: ahh.23:20
greenflywhat mechanism determines which packages that are in a repo show up in the GUI package manager? is it something like Ubuntu's Add/Remove Programs system?23:20
lcukjust add the repo, apt-get update;   apt-get install git-core;    remove repo23:20
GeneralAntillesgreenfly, user/* section23:21
Shapeshifterwell... I don't care really, I would pay the full price.23:21
hcarregaany new for release date?23:21
javispedrojust to see if there was something I needed to do about the DDP but I see that's not the case.23:21
GeneralAntilleshcarrega, should be very soon.23:21
greenflyGeneralAntilles: ahh, thanks23:21
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: I won't be ordering for a while, so I hope it doesn't get worse...23:21
GeneralAntilleshcarrega, the DDP people just opened up for ordering.23:21
hcarregaGeneralAntilles: just preorder23:21
Shapeshifterhcarrega: like end of november I think23:21
hcarregain october23:21
Shapeshifterwell, s/I think/I guess/23:21
hcarregafnac online says december23:21
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hcarregai wish not true23:22
hcarregaif so23:22
hcarregai prefer to send out of the bridge23:22
GeneralAntilleshcarrega, Newegg says the 14th.23:22
hcarregai will w823:22
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prometoyslcuk ok,  I just wget the deb :)23:22
hcarregaits all ready pay23:22
hcarregathanks any way23:23
lcukfair enough23:23
javispedroat least the price is lower than what I expected.23:23
javispedrono taxes seems? not confirmed though.23:23
javispedro(why I believe I'll need to pray for good luck on customs)23:23
* lcuk is good23:24
qwerty12_N900EvilQwerty will be praying for javispedro to get hit with a high customs tax23:24
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Shapeshifterprice is extremely reasonable23:25
Shapeshifterit's now at 718USD / 478 euros here in switzerland.23:25
javispedrolcuk: hey, good luck with the UX day23:26
Shapeshifterwhich isn't much. The iphone 3g 32gb sells at 1200USD23:26
serenitycheapest price in germany are 499€23:26
lcukjavispedro, you not coming?23:26
Shapeshifterserenity: damn the 19% tax >.>23:26
Shapeshifterlucky me got 7.523:26
javispedrolcuk: I plan to attend, if there are no more DDP news and more sick days :)23:26
serenityShapeshifter: you name it23:26
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prometoysGeneralAntilles, thanks for remembering about the tools repro, I forget it every time23:27
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javispedrona, just joking23:27
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javispedroI saw the N900 here at 400€, but then, Western Union >:)23:27
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serenityi hope on release it will be <450€23:28
javispedroIMHO that is bit wishful. 450€ around end of year, maybe..23:29
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serenityjavispedro: that's the same: release and end of year ;)23:29
javispedroah, well.23:30
javispedroI think the release is near23:30
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ShapeshifterI wonder how long one must wait who didn't preorder23:31
Shapeshifterwell, I think once they release the units will be shipped pretty fast23:31
Shapeshifterthose production lines are damn fast23:31
qwerty12_N900Nokia should put on some festive tunes in that case. such as: "Santa Claus is coming to moms" and "Jingle Balls"23:32
javispedro2 months and already thinking on him?23:32
javispedrolet the poor guy rest dammit23:32
javispedrook, ok, not exactly 2 months.23:33
Shapeshifterjavispedro: you haven't prepared your easter decoration yet?? :o23:33
Shapeshifterit's only 5 months!23:33
Shapeshifterlet alone chrismas, it's almost over already23:33
Shapeshifterisn't it.23:33
javispedroyes, respitory masks will be this years decoration23:33
Shapeshiftertalking about chrismas 2010 here.23:33
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dmj7262I had a chance to play with some guy's moto Droid just now.23:37
javispedrodid you burn your hand through the exhaust pipe that droid has?23:37
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dmj7262exhaust pipe?23:37
javispedrothat ugly striped finish on the backside which they say gives a retro feel23:37
dmj7262I kept trying to figure out where the weird twitching was coming from23:37
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dmj7262It won't respond to fingernails.23:38
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dmj7262so you have to use your finger pads.23:39
dmj7262which are less precise.23:40
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dmj7262the screen was nice and big and crisp though.23:40
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GeneralAntillesdmj726, did you find the slide edges sharp?23:41
GeneralAntillesThe dummy unit I tried at Best Buy kept trying to cut my index fingers.23:42
dmj7262didn't cut me23:42
kamiquestion for the german people: on which shop have you preordered?23:42
javispedrohey, another troll on tmo!23:42
dmj7262The keyboard felt squishy though23:42
javispedroshould I post on that thread? will we get commemorative photos?23:42
* qwerty12_N900 says "Hi"23:42
Stskeepswho's 'cool900'? :P23:42
kamihi qwerty23:43
wazddroid has 848x480 screen. Why not n900?23:43
javispedro8 pixels is like, 0.8mm23:43
wazdI'm kidding :D23:43
dmj726248 pixels actually.23:43
javispedrobut if you want to open another thread, go ahead :)23:43
wazdyeah, 48 ;)23:43
* javispedro is on meds23:44
javispedrowell, no, no excuse for being idiot23:44
dmj7262actually that probably makes up the entire size difference on the screen23:44
Stskeepsjavispedro: perfect time for making a debian package with stub libGLESv2 and libEGL, using __attribute__((weak)) for all API symbols then23:44
javispedrowhat WHAT?=23:44
javispedrowhat for?23:45
Stskeepsbuilding against gles api without uploading closed source libs :P23:45
dmj7262Any clue why the Droid wouldn't respond to my fingernail, err organic stylus?23:45
javispedrogood point :P23:45
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wazddoes droid looks that retro-brick in real life too?23:45
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javispedroStskeeps: wouldn't you know if mesa has at least the symbols declared?23:46
javispedroI think EGL support was fairly complete23:46
wazdI'm really really shocked bout that moto failure :(23:46
dmj7262what failure?23:46
wazddroid design23:46
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GeneralAntillesdmj726, capacitive.23:46
dmj7262ah.  It doesn't look ugly persay, but angular brink does come to mind.23:47
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Stskeepsjavispedro: it's not complete in GLES/GLES223:47
wazdcapacitive displays will become precise and stylus friendly someday23:47
dmj7262ah, so capacitive only responds to skin, not nail?23:47
javispedrowell, I guess no difference with your weak monster DSO23:47
wazdand resistive touchscreens will die :)23:48
javispedro(note that all I know from DSOs on GNU system was from quicly eyeing Ulrich's paper on it so ..)23:48
Stskeepsjavispedro: no libGLESv2 in mesa at all :/23:48
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javispedroah, bad news then. ta.23:49
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javispedropardon my ignorance, but I was wondering.. why weak?23:50
dmj7262there was also some funky notifications drawer I kept pulling down from th top of the screen23:50
lardmandmj726: Android?23:51
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lardmanyeah, some things are quite cool23:51
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lardmanI like the throwing away desktop shortcuts23:51
* qwerty12_N900 sets mode +b on lardman23:51
lardmanalways things to learn from ;)23:52
Stskeepsjavispedro: that or actual stubs23:52
dmj7262I didn't notice that.23:52
javispedroah, so no reason :)23:52
dmj7262I had a hard time finding the url bar for the browser23:52
lardmanyeah, hold then drag to the bottom where it says something like "rubbish" then they turn red and vanish23:52
javispedroStskeeps: well I cannot think of anything better right now.. so go ahead I say.23:53
dmj7262managed to find it but have no idea how.23:53
javispedroStskeeps: btw, what about headers?23:53
javispedroI guess Khronos ones are valid for uploading into the autobuilder?23:53
javispedros/valid/free enough23:53
dmj7262The app thingy had lots of apps23:53
lardmanmine less so as it's QVGA23:54
dmj7262you mean 320x240?23:54
lardmanscreen res - they don;t show apps that don't specifically say they can work in that res23:54
dmj7262that's not cool23:54
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lardmanwell the res works fine, shame they hold back the apps23:55
lardmanbut hopefully people will have to go back and update their apps now23:55
dmj7262I thought Andoid phones were all hvga or higher?23:55
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lardmanno, the newer ones can have different res23:55
dmj7262what phone is that?23:55
lardmanhtc tattoo23:55
lardmanmy wife's23:55
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dmj7262Let me guess, you want the n900?23:55
lardmanI've got one23:56
* dmj7262 is jealous23:56
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lardmanbut still the Android phone has some cool features23:56
lardmanand some not so cool ones23:56
dmj7262what do you like/dislike23:56
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lardmanI do like the Google integration (as that's what she uses); the desktop app stuff is cool, touchscreen works better than on N90023:57
lardmanI don't like the lack of choice and lack of integration of non-Google stuff23:57
dmj7262what do you mean lack of choice?23:57
lardmannot fond of the random menus you have to go into, not very intuitive imo23:58
lardmanwell you can't have MSN integrated, you have to download an app to use it23:58
javispedroStskeeps: (answering myself) Khronos headers are "GSI Free Software License B " which is X11, and they seems to have minor diffs with Imagintion's. So they should be enough.23:58
lardmanwhereas with the N8x0/N900 it just works in the same built-in app23:58
fralsthis glade and pygtk is pretty nice... god i like when i dont have to code gui stuff :D23:58
dmj7262Here's an idea!  Android phone with Debian userland!23:59
lardmandmj726: just copy the good ideas and move on I reckon ;)23:59
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javispedroStskeeps: also, if you're interested, I found yesterday a tool to generate stubs from parsing the gl.h header (actual remote stubs). May be a bit overkill for what you want to do, but if you're interested...23:59

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