IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-11-10

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javispedroand have to go, since the headache is back and I don't want another paracetamol dose, see you.00:02
javispedroand enjoy the trolls00:02
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__ibzhi, are there any significant differences between the regional n900's? e.g n900 US vs n900 uk?00:08
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__ibzcool, seems to be a lot cheaper to purchase from the us..00:11
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cehtehyou know that the EU has high customs/taxes if they check it?00:13
GeneralAntilles__ibz, you wont have a warranty.00:13
GeneralAntilles__ibz, most of the EU cost is tax.00:13
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ShadowJKnot worth it :)00:14
__ibzcehteh: i'm hoping to get a friend to purchase and bring it over for me..00:14
__ibzShadowJK: what's not worth it?00:14
cehtehmhm why does maemo ship with a really ancient bash?00:15
greenflyit's a busybox shell00:15
greenflyif you need bash, it's apt-gettable00:15
qwerty12_N900Ancient? It doesn't ship with bash at all00:15
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n000bsorry if this is an FAQ, but how do i change to armel target on scratchbox? sb-menu gives no output and does not return.00:16
* timeless_mbp sighs00:16
ShapeshifterI guess there's zsh, isn't it00:16
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: see my latest bug move :)00:16
cehtehgreenfly: i meant that bash  2.0500:16
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timeless_mbpShadowJK: the engb and enus keyboards are the same00:17
timeless_mbpthe difference is in the charger00:17
timeless_mbpand the preloaded maps00:17
rangeThere's no tax on mobile phones in the EU, but yes, you still have to pay taxes.00:17
ShadowJKrange, VAT00:17
timeless_mbpthe us version will give you more mb of preloaded maps for your dollar :)00:17
greenflycehteh: some feature in newer versions of bash you are missing?00:17
cehtehn000b: i had that too .. some python bug00:17
rangeShadowJK: I think I just said that :)00:17
cehtehgreenfly: yes at least for the devel env00:18
n000bcehteh: so is there some other means?00:18
rangeShadowJK: Erm.00:18
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rangeThere is no customs00:18
* timeless_mbp sighs00:18
rangeBut you have to pay taxes :)00:18
timeless_mbpwho cares about customs?00:18
qwerty12_N900timeless: Until you use Ovi Maps and realise that the spending the dollars was not worth it...00:18
cehtehn000b: it suddenly started working, dunno why .. and now i scraped the old beta2 sdk and install the final one00:18
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: but you're saving bandwidth00:19
timeless_mbpand those bits are expensive :)00:19
timeless_mbpso you save a lot of money just *testing* Ovi Maps :)00:19
ShadowJKif a friend or the mail system brings it over, chances are you'll avoid customs. If DHL, UPS, Fedex or similar brings it over, they'll almost certainly take it via customs :P00:19
n000bcehteh: hmm... i'm quite sure i've installed the final one too00:19
cehtehgreenfly: need [[ x=~y ]] regex matching .. working around with 'expr' is bit pita (ok will do)00:19
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cehtehn000b: well maybe same bug then00:19
greenflycehteh: ahhh00:19
qwerty12_N900timeless: lol... sums it up :p00:20
cehtehi am still installing00:20
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, no, link?00:21
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timeless_mbpbug (bug 5995)00:22
povbotBug United States should be United States of America00:22
Shapeshifterso, ovi maps is still rubbish?00:22
timeless_mbp(bug 6099)00:22
povbotBug Incremental search function is case sensitive for "select objects" dialogue in html form elements like drop-down menus00:22
timeless_mbpwow, you've got a bot here00:22
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GeneralAntillesGuess mgedmin added a Bugzilla module to povbot.00:23
GeneralAntillesWe were going to have one last year, but jott dropped off the map before it was deployed.00:23
timeless_mbptoo helpful00:23
timeless_mbpkick it out... progress is bad00:23
timeless_mbppeople might actually learn to use bugzilla00:23
* GeneralAntilles is just glad he can always be lazy and let Andre deal with it. ;)00:24
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cehteh... 2764B/s 4h24m12s00:25
cehtehuhm is the server little slow toady?00:25
GeneralAntillescehteh, ;)00:25
cehtehwell i have some hopes that my squid kicks in for most packages00:26
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, nice. . . .00:27
cehtehnote: dont get a time-based internet tarif for the n90000:27
Shapeshiftermhh, I don't really get why there's no google maps, voiced guided routing yet00:27
GeneralAntillescehteh, yeah, servers should be coming this month or next.00:27
ShapeshifterI mean, are there some specific problems with it?00:27
ShapeshifterIf not, why isn't it there yet? If I finally get my n900 I'll write something for that if someone else doesn't...00:28
ShadowJKuh, ask google?00:28
ShapeshifterI mean, there's not that much to it. the google maps provide maps and routing, and all you need it some text-to-speech thing to tell you what to do and the trickiest bit is to constantly check for the current GPS position and trigger the direction commands accordingly00:28
Shapeshifterno, I mean, with the existing google API00:29
cehtehspeech to text would be more interesting actually00:29
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: and people wonder why i love our widgets...00:29
timeless_mbpor why i don't want to hildonize the browser00:29
timeless_mbpi could:00:29
timeless_mbpA. hildonize the browser00:29
Shapeshifterdon't really care about that00:29
timeless_mbpB. write what people actually need into upstream00:29
timeless_mbpwith B, someone can later write CSS to fix up the theming00:29
cehtehis emacs packaged for maemo5 already? :)00:30
timeless_mbpfixing Hildon widgets to not suck is painful00:30
cehtehand lua00:30
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timeless_mbpis emacs optified?00:30
cehtehas in installing to /opt ? should be doable00:30
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greenflycehteh: I see an emacs package available, and I've installed and used vim00:30
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cehtehgreenfly: i seen one for maemo400:31
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GeneralAntillescehteh, the Maemo 4 one will work fine, aside from not being optified.00:31
greenflycehteh: I'm not sure off-hand which repo it's in00:31
GeneralAntilles(Well, should)00:31
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greenflyI have testing and devel enabled though00:32
cehtehi will too00:32
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, conceptually I'm a fan of native stuff.00:32
timeless_mbpoh sure00:32
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, too bad Hildon can't seem to get its act together.00:32
timeless_mbpi don't mind the concept00:32
timeless_mbpi just have the experience to know it isn't worth it00:32
cehtehand lua is something i can install by myself, would be just nice if its officially (community) supported00:32
GeneralAntillesNative widgets are a large part of why I've never used Firefox OS X.00:32
timeless_mbpcehteh: i'm not sure what that means00:33
timeless_mbpthings that go into repositories aren't community supported00:33
GeneralAntilless/OS X/on OS X/00:33
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Native widgets are a large part of why I've never used Firefox on OS X.00:33
timeless_mbpthey're at best community hosted00:33
timeless_mbpthe person who "supports" it is the packager00:33
timeless_mbpbecause he's the person who butchers it00:33
cehtehi didnt figured this out yet00:33
timeless_mbpit's unlikely to matter significantly00:33
timeless_mbpbut do keep it in mind00:33
timeless_mbpif i post a package into extras-devel00:34
timeless_mbpthe rest of the community might hopefully use it00:34
timeless_mbpbut it's only my responsibility to support it (if that), not theirs00:34
cehtehyes i didnt cared yet how the community is organized, a friend of me has a n800 since years but i never looked in the details00:34
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timeless_mbpsorry, i'm the resident linguist00:35
timeless_mbpso, my packages include translations00:35
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timeless_mbpthey're my responsibility :)00:35
* cehteh wonders how much memory one can free on the device by purging unused languages00:36
cehtehwell prolly few hundred MB at best00:36
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cehtehbtw:   anyone tried that yet?00:37
qwerty12_N900cehteh: ~16MB on a stock install (I have localepurge installed on this N900)00:37
cehtehi have compcache on my laptop running, works well00:37
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N900: is that du output or df?00:38
timeless_mbpbecause the file system does compression00:38
cehtehstock install has no much texts, but plenty'o'extra apps will have00:38
qwerty12_N900timeless: the output reported by localepurge itself; no idea how it calculates the space00:39
cehtehwell and that keeps the translation i18n packages still installed it purges only generated locales or?00:40
qwerty12_N900timeless: That reminds me... I had to update its nopurge file thanks to your translations :o00:40
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timeless_mbpthat'd suck00:40
timeless_mbpyou have ZERO localizations, because they've all been purged :)00:41
timeless_mbpor something00:41
timeless_mbpam i supposed to modify that thing as i install?00:41
qwerty12_N900All your strings seem to be there, but I don't dare to try and revert to the stock strings00:42
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timeless_mbpi have 1 change i know that's pending00:42
timeless_mbpand i need to fix the profile menu00:42
timeless_mbpsince it turns out (surprise, surprise!) that it uses fixed width buttons00:42
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BBNShi, anyone possibly knows how to reprogram the camera key on N900? o.o00:43
cehtehbtw i had xephyr in mouse-grab mode ... how to leave that (where is any xephyr doc?)00:45
qwerty12_N900Looked at its title by any chance? =)00:45
timeless_mbpBBNS: there's some stuff in gconf00:46
timeless_mbpnot sure if it's still used00:46
timeless_mbpiirc it's stale00:46
RST38hBBNS: One word: XAtoms00:47
qwerty12_N900BBNS: DBus signals get emitted on its pressing. My guess that there's a process, somewhere, listening to them and once you find that process, it wouldn't be hard to listen to them yourself00:47
RST38ha moment00:47
BBNSwell, I know I could get the signal of camera key 'half' pressed.00:47
BBNShowever, i wanna block the camera apps being launched.00:47
BBNSsince i wanna use the key for other applications.00:48
timeless_mbpyou might want to talk to mce and ask it nicely :)00:48
timeless_mbp(iirc mce isn't documented)00:48
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BBNSo.o who's the contact?00:48
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timeless_mbpnah, try RST38h 's approach00:49
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BBNSgosh ... wanna kill the IT here.00:49
BBNStimeless_mbp: umm o.o sorry got disconnected.00:50
timeless_mbpnah, try RST38h 's approach00:50
RST38hConboy author seems to have managed using the camera button00:50
timeless_mbpfwiw, there are channel logs00:50
BBNSRST38h: oh o.o via XAtom?00:50
BBNStimeless_mbp: the channel log is realtime?00:51
RST38hyes, I have seen the code somewhere but cannot locate it with google00:51
RST38hstill searching00:51
timeless_mbpit's in the topic, try it?00:51
qwerty12_N900RST38h: He has? For what? Only thing I know that does it is load-applet, and that's for the half-pressed state via DBus00:51
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BBNStimeless_mbp: yep! it's real-time thanks!00:52
BBNSqwerty12_N900: that's what i referenced from too. only half-pressed.00:52
BBNSqwerty12_N900: but if i full pressed the button, still trigger the camera app.00:53
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RST38hqwerty: check out the fbreader volume buttons plugin in extras00:54
qwerty12_N900That just adds options to FBReader's toolbar00:55
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greenflyit would be cool if it overrode the volume keys though :)00:58
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RST38h (check out the obligatory Huge Blue LED)00:59
RST38h"...According to arrest records, Dunn denied that the items were his and told officers that they may belong to Jesus, who was setting him up."01:00
greenflyRST38h: heh, it's fun watching his thumb slide 5x on the screen before the desktop changes01:01
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RST38hat some point it looked stuck, so he turned it around "to show the finish"01:02
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DantonicHey what's the standard sound player under diablo? I need to call it from xchat to make it play sounds01:11
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n000bdo you know if i can use my host computer's webcam as the v4l2src in scratchbox?01:12
n000b(in a gst-launch pipeline)01:13
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Dantonicor is there another command line sound player that I can dl?  I think that's how I fixed it before... I just reflashed and forgot to check my settings for that :(01:16
Dantoniccan't remember how I did it... :(01:16
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sp3000timeless_mbp: trick question: how do you know a user has typed a capital letter?01:18
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Dantonicis ogg a sound player?01:18
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kalikianafkthe "ogg" package just installs a fancy icon and a codec iirc01:20
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timeless_mbpsp3000: not interested :)01:20
timeless_mbpi only care about the values in the input field01:20
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Dantonicsox! that's what it was01:20
Dantonicsox is a sound player right?01:20
timeless_mbpif the user ends up with "Un" in the input field01:20
timeless_mbpthen that's mixed case01:20
sp3000they probably typed un01:21
* timeless_mbp nods01:21
sp3000and they'd have a hard time not getting Un01:21
sp3000so triggering on that is ouch01:21
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webustanyhi there01:21
sp3000(hard time as in grumble, not impossible, of course)01:21
Dantonicnow how do I get sox on the N800 cant remember how I did that :P01:22
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webustanyI think it's a common question, but I have a gtk app here and I'd like it to be more finger friendly. I browsed the manual, the porting guide, but didn't find something relevant.01:22
webustanySpecifically I'd like thumb friendly scrollbars and buttons01:22
timeless_mbpsp3000: i could only trigger on case for characters other than the first01:22
timeless_mbpstupid special case, but..01:22
webustanyI'm using MaemoWindow, but that doesn't cgnge anything01:22
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Dantonichow do I install sox on my N800?01:27
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DantonicI'm an idiot... forgot I posted the solution back in February hahaha01:30
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DantonicAwesome it works!01:33
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Dantonicthanks johnxx !01:33
Dantonicfor something that you helped me with 8 months ago!01:34
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lardmanhmm, when comparing images, would I be best off creating a hash and saving that for later comparison?01:41
lardmanif so, what method would people recommend?01:41
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cehtehlardman: what kind of image?01:50
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lardmancehteh: an avatar01:54
lardmanso reasonably small01:54
lardmanprobably in the form of a pixbuf01:54
cehtehwell hashes work only for *exact* match01:54
lardmanyes, and that is what I'm looking for01:54
lardmanto see if someone's avatar has changed01:55
cehtehno compression artifiacts and nothing else01:55
lardmannope, should be just the same01:55
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lardmanso are there some standard hash commands available01:58
lardmansomething in glib for example?01:59
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lardmanhmm, seems not, will save that one for tomorrow02:01
* lardman reminds pupnik that he's talking about a string of chars, not weed02:03
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lardmannight all02:03
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Robot101anyone get bluemaemo working?03:08
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DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: MD5?03:27
DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: man md5sum03:29
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n000bI've been trying to compile OpenCV on scratchbox. The X86 target compiled successfully :D04:30
n000bbut i'm having trouble with ARMEL04:30
n000bI get an error saying that the python2.3 lib (lpython2.3) can't be found.04:31
n000bIndeed, I can't find it.04:31
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n000bDoes anyone know how I can install lpython2.3 on armel?04:31
n000b(I've tried installing python 2.5, but the configure script ignores it in favour of scratchbox's 2.3)04:32
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n000b...compiling --without-python for the time being...04:42
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n000bwould it be advisable for me in future to completely replace the python 2.3 in scratchbox, since it will confuse many ./configure scripts?04:55
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n1c0bundle wifi wizard seems limited on n81005:50
n1c0i can only enter wpa alphanum05:50
n1c0special chars are impossible to enter in messagebox05:50
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pupnikmr bungle06:06
clearysqueeze me macaroni06:06
clearyslop my face with that bologna...06:07
* cleary hums06:07
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pwnguinis this an appropriate place to whine about the heisenburg uncertainty of the n900 release date?06:12
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microlithnot really06:12
dmj726it's been whined about to death really06:13
pwnguinwell lemme just ask; does anyone believe newegg's ship date is accurate?06:13
microlithyou can post in the 2000+ post thread on the forums though, where you'll disappear into a sea of dumb if you like06:13
* microlith is preordered with nokia and biding his time06:14
pwnguinhmm. amazon has it for like 100 less than nokia's price =/06:14
microliththey didn't when I placed my preorder06:15
pwnguinwonder if you can cancel a preorder06:15
microlithyou can, but I'm in no hurry06:15
pwnguinonward then06:16
pwnguinhow hard would it be to make an app that sorted pictures based on distance from your location?06:17
dmj726I suspect not hard06:17
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pwnguinim thinking of doing something like this:
dmj726pwnguin: You should make one!06:18
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pwnguindmj726: i'm wondering if the album stuff doesn't already have everything i need06:18
dmj726perhaps you can add the distance feature to it?06:19
pwnguini dont have any hardware atm06:19
dmj726Neither do I.06:19
pwnguinall ive got is a lackluster virtualbox image for mer06:19
dmj726I'm just making mockups of a video editor gui06:19
dmj726I have a scratchbox image of fremantle06:20
* pwnguin still hasn't learned the codenames06:20
dmj726maemo 5 /a virtual n90006:20
pwnguini thought scratchbox was a toolchain06:20
dmj726I'm running maemo 5 somehow06:21
dmj726it's slow though06:21
pwnguinhonestly, i think the problem with a simple album approach is multiple franchise locations06:22
pwnguintheres more than one best buy in the area, for example06:22
pwnguinwhat you really want is to identify the store you're in, and show a barcode for it06:22
dmj726perhaps a time + location = event filter?06:23
pwnguinperhaps make a location DB06:24
n000bThis guy didn't get a reply to his post on the forum:
n000bI'm having the same problem. Does have any suggestions?06:24
pwnguin1) you link against python06:25
pwnguin2) you link against python2.3?06:25
n000bi'm trying to link against any python, but the configure script for the package i'm trying to install only finds the scratchbox python, which doesn't have the libpython installed06:27
n000b(and i can't find python2.3-dev package anywhere)06:27
pwnguindoes maemo even have 2.3?06:28
pwnguinubuntu has like 2.5 and 2.606:28
luke-jrI would hope so.06:28
n000b2.3 is in /scratchbox/tools/bin06:29
n000bI have 2.5 installed in /usr/bin06:29
n000b(that is, /usr/bin of the chrooted environment)06:29
luke-jrI have 2.6 on my N810, but it's not Maemo :p06:29
dmj726I have a theory about camera phones.  They were kinda pointless for a long time.  I think the reason is that they needed to take quality pictures and transfer easily to one's PC.06:31
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luke-jrthat always seemed obvious to me.06:32
luke-jrseriously, VGA res is useless06:32
luke-jrespecially for stills06:32
dmj726yeah, those are the two reasons I've rarely used my camera phone06:32
luke-jrnot to mention the shortage of space on the phone06:32
luke-jrand impracticality of putting things back once downloaded06:33
dmj726They were only useful in rare occasions, and they were more or less stuck on the phone06:33
dmj726I don't take pictures for exclusive use on the phone.06:33
dmj726and I don't want to spend dozens of dollars to stick them on another device.06:34
dmj726Of course both problems have been solved by now.06:34
pwnguincamera phones were invented for the same reason all technology is invented06:34
luke-jrin that case, let's burn all technology06:35
microlithyou'll burn first, I assure you :)06:35
dmj726the wheel was invented for pr0n?06:35
pwnguinyes. why do you think there's a hole in the middle?06:35
dmj726In the words of M Night. Shamylan: "What a twist!"06:36
dmj726at any rate, theres little point to a blurry, low res pic.06:36
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dmj726new video editing mockup:
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sarowergood morning all08:31
sarowerIs it possible to take the camera on a dialog08:32
sarowerany body? any idea?08:32
dmj726what do you mean?08:32
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Stskeepsthe shipping delays thread remind me of an asylum09:40
Corsacexpansys still says “4 days to go”09:41
Stskeepsand i really hope there are constructive and contributing people within that flood of new people..09:41
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timeless_mbpit's snowing...09:45
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thuxis here lot of H1N1 patients? much smaller channel where I'm is one case for sure (tested)10:05
Stskeepsprolly had some after the summit10:05
thuxwas he really sick?10:06
Stskeepswell didnt die..10:06
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thuxthey say here that it hits harder after 1970 born people who fortunately are usually better condition than before epoch bornt10:08
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Stskeepsvirus determines if it works based on your unix timestamp?10:10
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thuxStskeeps: hehe i just remembered that unix epoch is 1.1.1970 isn't it?10:14
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thuxand doctors claim that persons who haven't live in sixties doens't have some resitance against virus10:15
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cosmo_what was the screenshot key combo on fremantle?10:34
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cosmo_timeless_mbp: thanks10:37
Stskeepsmaybe the delay thread will finally get sane10:38
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: so much for not shipping the same week as a recall10:39
timeless_mbpfwiw, we were expecting to ship this week10:39
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: well, it's a new day10:39
timeless_mbpthe software had met final approval sometime last week10:39
Stskeepsso headlines are scrubbed of recall10:39
timeless_mbpi suppose i should be glad that we have some spine/backbone10:39
johnxmmm...really looking forward to a retail flashable image10:40
Stskeepsi'm looking forward to some of the more irritating bugs being fixed :P10:40
dmj726what's this about a recall?10:40
Stskeepsdmj726: some chargers10:41
dmj726for n900?10:41
johnxdmj726, if your charger has exposed metal and it sparking, you need to not touch it with your tongue10:41
dmj726oh, good10:41
dmj726...What chargers are these?10:41
dmj726glad it's nothing that affects n900 users10:42
Stskeepsjohnx: nothing on tablets-dev yet :P10:42
johnxI'll et an auto refresh10:43
mgedminyay shipping10:43
dmj726I'm really happy that it's shipping10:43
johnxcongrats Nokia people!10:43
Stskeepsuntil you get it in your hands and realize they did a last minute casing change to Hello Kitty themed casing.10:44
* johnx has a high tolerance level to hello kitty10:44
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dmj726Wait until you see the Darth Vader/Master Chef/Hello Kitty mashup casing10:45
dmj726made of falsehood cake.10:45
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johnxactually, I want that fake wood paneling that was on 80s station wagons :D10:46
mgedminhello ctulthu10:46
johnxmgedmin, I'd probably pay money for that ...10:46
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* frals dislikes the n95 browser dying after a few refreshs on talk :(11:02
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johnxit's to limit the amount of insanity you're exposed to11:02
fralsHehe, guess so11:04
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Stskeepswtf, talk.* shows me the n900 shipping thread as double11:16
cehtehmaybe it ships double now :P11:16
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johnxI'd settle for keeping mine twice as long :>11:17
fralsStskeeps: twice the insanity, half the fun11:17
johnxI have on auto-refresh11:18
johnxno love yet11:18
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stevemLo, does anyone know if the N900 a) has a tilt sensor and b) rotates the screen when tilted?11:22
stevemand any videos of it doing this?  been looking high and low and can't find any11:22
Stskeepsyes it has a accelerometer11:22
stevemI know it goes portrait when a call comes in, but other than this - I've never seen it in portrait mode11:22
Stskeepsit is because many apps are not portrait11:23
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Stskeepsso they don't switch11:23
Myrttihas anyone ported shell-fm to maemo5 yet?11:24
johnxstevem, if you find a video of the picture viewer, that goes portrait on rotate11:25
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johnxand the actual sensing part of it feels pretty solid11:25
stevemhmm ok, at least I know there _is_  a limitation now, and I'm not just going crazy11:25
johnxit hasn't gone nuts on me yet11:25
stevemit's not something I'm overly concerned about, I expect that and MMS will get improved in later firmware?11:25
johnxNokia says portrait mode browsing before 201011:26
stevembeen looking around at what contract deals deals in the UK there are for getting it free11:26
johnxand a lot of 3rd party apps have a portrait mode11:26
johnxxournal looks real nice in portrait :)11:26
stevemwas looking to get a N800/810 for years and was holding off for the N830 WiMax (never happened lol)11:26
Stskeepsi kinda want a rotation button instead11:26
stevemI suppose a N900 will do11:26
fralsNo official word on mms thou11:26
johnxStskeeps, I want more buttons, but that's just me ...11:27
johnxI'd also like to bind the shutter to something when the lens cover is closed ...11:27
stevemanyone know any good N900 on contract deals?  UK?11:27
fralsIts being worked on by people stupid enough to read wap specifications thou11:28
stevemI've seen the ones on voda... but the company looks dodgy11:28
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suihkulokki10:38 < Stskeeps> maybe the delay thread will finally get sane11:28
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Stskeepssuihkulokki: well, okay, maybe a bit optimistic.11:29
suihkulokkinaah, now people will go completly nuts when some people get their shiny toys why they don't have theirs in their hands yet11:29
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SpeedEvilstevem: why dodgy?11:41
stevemSpeedEvil, well for a company selling phones, they never answer them11:42
stevemthe e-mails take days to respond and the livechat is shite11:42
SpeedEvilthey're quite a large company IIRC11:42
vesawhoever coded hermes: much <3 to you!11:42
AD-N770good morning from Barcelona11:43
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SpeedEvilOnly contract news other than that is vodafone ireland have said they will carry it.11:43
stevemSpeedEvil, apparently run the Nokia Retail stores... but I'm not sure if it's all of them (bar london) or not11:43
AD-N770I'm planning attend the maemo long weekend in Barcelona11:43
stevemNo network in the UK has said they'll carry it11:43
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stevemJust web sites that offset the price from the commission11:43
SpeedEvilyes, just ireland.11:43
AD-N770but I'm not sure how to register me, have I just add me in the wiki ?11:44
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VDVsxlcuk, ;)11:49
VDVsxAD-N770, yes11:49
VDVsxAD-N770, and please introduce yourself here:
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AD-N770VDVsx: what I need to put requested or planned ?11:50
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VDVsxAD-N770, are you interested in the long-weekend event (conferences and training ) or in the UX met code event (hackfest) ?11:51
VDVsxAD-N770, hackfest is by invitation only, so you should put "requested"11:52
AD-N770what's the procedure to be invited?11:52
VDVsxAD-N770, and I gave you the wrong thread in this case,  1 sec11:52
lcukVDVsx, arent you down as going? i thought you were like first on the list11:52
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VDVsxlcuk, don't have money enough money atm :(, without a invite probably can't go :(11:53
* VDVsx blames google and Nokia11:54
VDVsxAD-N770, instructions here:
VDVsxAD-N770, and introduce yourself in that thread ^11:55
AD-N770ok, trying to register me in talk but it says that I'm a bot ;)11:55
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VDVsxAD-N770, wrong captcha ?11:56
AD-N770no, I've tried 3 times11:57
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AD-N770same again11:58
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VDVsxAD-N770, any luck ?12:07
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VDVsxfinally :  :P12:20
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w00tI'm tempted to say old news, but I'd have to run12:20
VDVsxw00t, true, at least vague news :P12:21
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SpeedEvil10208380         Nokia N900         This order has not shipped.         0         012:24
mgedminthe n900 is shipping probably deserves to be in /topic12:24
mgedminstill no n900 in the forum nokia eStore12:25
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MyrttiI wonder what does "new sim card" mean in this context12:25
SpeedEvilMyrtti: I suspect it's a problem with the SIM software12:26
MyrttiSpeedEvil: I don't really care about what the problem is, I want to know how do I know which SIM card I have...12:27
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w00tSpeedEvil: probably going from factory to distributors first, so it'll probably take a few more days to ship to individual people - though this is just a guess of mine12:27
Myrttiproblem is irrelevant, what is relevant if I'd be affected12:27
VDVsxMyrtti, it's new ? :)12:27
MyrttiVDVsx: "new" - In my books a sim card 9 months old is quite new still12:27
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Myrttineed a definition of "new"12:28
Stskeepswazd o/12:28
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wazdoh, Day S :D12:28
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wazdgrats everyone :)12:28
fralsbug 531512:28
povbotBug 3 Mobile SIM card rejected12:28
VDVsxMyrtti, only affects the cards from the "3" network, afaik12:28
MyrttiVDVsx: and I have one... I'm not totally dim ;-)12:29
VDVsxMyrtti, hehe12:29
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wazdand still no answer from NDDP, to any of my inboxes12:32
wazdI think I'm ignored12:32
VDVsxwazd, what's NDDP ?12:32
wazdVDVsx: nokia developer device program :)12:33
mgedminsounded like the name of a political party12:33
VDVsxyeah ;)12:33
mgedminthe national democratic democrat party?12:34
mgedmin"a n900 for every voter!"12:34
wazdrussia is in the list that will receive shipping for sale12:34
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wazdbut you can't get it thru :(12:34
wazdmgedmin: the n900 developer democratic party :D12:35
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Stskeepswho says it has to be democratic12:36
Stskeepsdespotic ;p12:36
SpeedEvilMyrtti: Openmoko also had a problem with 3 SIMs, and required a phone firmware update12:36
mgedminI can imagine: it's not trivial to handle three SIM cards in one slot12:36
wazdStskeeps: well, extras-testing approval is rather democratic move :D12:37
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SpeedEvilmgedmin: unfortuantely.12:37
SpeedEvilmgedmin: that'd be really handy12:37
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sarowergood morning all12:39
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sarowerHow to invalidate rect when using HildonWindow?12:40
sarowerany body any idea?12:40
VDVsxnews firmware features: Among the functionality is an app which periodically pulls down contact profile photos and automatically syndicates them out to the various social networking and address book databases across the Maemo handset.12:40
VDVsxsounds like hermes :P12:40
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StskeepsVDVsx: source?12:41
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Stskeepsah, peter's n900 is probably an adventure in itself12:42
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Stskeepsit doesn't mean it is in fw12:42
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VDVsxStskeeps, of course,lol12:42
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sarowerI am using HildonWindow in my application and can not invalidate it!12:46
sarowerhow it could be done?12:46
SargunThe gods have blessed us on this very good day.12:47
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ccookeMorning, all12:47
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Sargunwhen will my Amazong preordered one get here?12:47
SargunWe've been blessed.12:47
MyrttiSargun: your guess is as good as ours12:48
SargunI'd say probably a week at least12:49
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hrwsoon DDP threads start to appear with "argh!!! ddp not sent me info yet" :D12:51
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edgar2anyone know of how to re-flash the n900 now that shipments have started?12:52
mgedminsarower, usually people need to invalidate the widgets they're drawing on, e.g. GtkDrawingArea, not the whole window12:52
edgar2ie, ROM image somewhere?12:52
mgedminthere's a gtk function for that iirc12:52
mgedminmaybe you want gtk_widget_queue_draw_area instead, sarower?12:52
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sarowermgedmin: something like that12:53
Sargunit's been a little more than a few hours.12:53
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sarowermgedmin: any way how i can draw widget over a drawing area12:53
mgedminmaybe GtkLayout containing both the drawing area and the widget?12:56
mgedminthere was a similar question on planet gnome today12:56
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sarowerSuppose i have taken an image (suppose a.png) as gtkimage in a vbox later i want to change the image by (b.png)13:01
sarowerhow it could be?13:01
vesaedgar2: i don't think there's an image public yet. afaik the flashing software will be available as public domain which would suggest the image would too13:02
sarowermgedmin: ?13:03
mgedminis there a #gtk?13:03
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Stskeepsvesa: flasher is open but images are usually behind eulas13:04
mgedminsarower, go ahead and change it, what's the problem?  do you have difficulties finding the api function?13:04
mgedmindevhelp rules13:04
mgedmingoogle does too13:04
serenityi just dl'ed and 002. After cat i have one .zip, but can't unpack it13:04
sarowermgedmin: I have changed but does not work!13:05
mgedminit should've13:06
mgedminpastebin your code?13:06
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SargunI'm going to wake up in a few hours, and find out my N900 has shipped, right? :-P13:06
vesamm sweet. samsung coming out with their own mobile os13:07
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vesaoops, wrong channel that =/13:08
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lardmanvesa: you've given yourself away now....13:08
vesadamn... =)13:09
vesathe more the merrier, eh?13:09
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sarowerSUppose i have three vbox and inside one i am packing an image by gtkimage. I wnat to change it during run time13:12
sarowerbut it does not work!13:13
mgedminah, but is the samsung mobile os built on linux?13:13
mgedminsarower, the process debugging boils down to systematically examining your assumptions and finding which one (or which ones) do not match reality13:13
serenityanyone an idea, why unpacking doesn't work?13:15
stevemOMG an N900 WiMax!13:16
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Stskeepsstevem: source? :P13:17
stevem(just kidding!)13:17
lcukserenity, same here.  last year i got one and it was packed with .7z and managed to get that back together13:18
lcuki tried a few days ago and got 2 parts incomplete13:18
lcuknot had time to see why i couldnt glue em back together tho13:18
Stskeepsjust get a ubuntu VM and put the scripts on top.13:18
serenitythe md5 sums are ok, but the result after cat doesn't work13:18
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stevemDo you think Nokia's relationship with WiMax is dead?13:19
lardmanurgh, is sooo slow13:20
lardmanor is that the isp problem?13:20
mgedminafaiu the servers are overloaded13:21
Stskeepslardman: they did a changeover today13:21
lardmanmore servers sounds like a good idea13:21
mgedminI dunno if the bottleneck is CPU or I/O13:21
mgedminmore servers are planned in december13:21
* mgedmin just repeating rumors13:21
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lardmanthere must be some old N810s scudding about to add the the existing 77013:21
mgedminwell, not rumors, official news from the official webmaster13:21
fralsI dont notice any slowness over my 3g connection13:21
mgedminafaiu they're building a new server room from scratch13:21
mgedminout of lego blocks13:21
mgedminfor the new n810 servers13:22
Stskeepsno, out of bricked n900s13:22
lardmanah, that's why it's slow, overly aggressive power saving on the wifi connections13:22
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hannohi there. what's the target price one should settle for in Europe for the n900? there are already offers at 500€, will it go lower than that?13:22
lardmanis Attila Csipa on here somewhere?13:22
serenityhanno: not much, because then it will be cheaper than n97 mini13:23
lardmanI was wanting to talk to him about Shepherd and context aware applications13:24
sarowerSuppose that i have added a button in a container. Is it possible to change the widget in the run time?13:26
lardmanas long as you have a pointer to it13:26
sarowersuppose later i want to add a label there13:26
hannothe web is full of fraudulent sellers for the n900, already.13:26
lardmanon the button or above/below/beside it?13:26
sarowerlardman: Suppose fiet time i have added a button and in the run time i want to add a label instead of that button13:27
serenityhanno: but all about 500€s13:27
saroweris it possible?13:27
hannoserenity - the fraudulent ones are lower. :-)13:27
serenityexpect 450€ as cheapest to the end of year13:28
lardmansarower: yes13:28
lardmansarower: though I'd need to look at the docs to work out how to remove a widget and add in a new one13:28
lardmannot being much of a UI person myself ;)13:28
sarowerlardman: So !13:28
sarowerlardman: it is still a problem to me13:28
hannoi don't believe this guy is real - - there are dozens like this one out there.13:29
lardmansarower: try something like this:
lardmanor as it says there, just destroy it and it will be removed13:30
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rangehanno: nope, even without MwSt. this is too low.13:30
fralsNice, first post about his order not being shipped yet13:31
infobotfrals meant: Nice, first topic about his order not being shipped yet13:32
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lcuklardman, sarower havent you then got to make sure you put the new label/widget back int othe same packing order space?13:33
lardmansarower: seem suitable then?13:33
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cehteh  << \o/ china13:33
lcukif you just append from a layout the new item will just come at the bottom13:33
lardmanlcuk: in which case you ask the container for the location of the widget and insert it in the same place13:33
lcukyeah but must remember to do it before you destroy it13:34
crashanddieI've got 12 megs of free space left13:34
crashanddiebut I need to install GCC13:34
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crashanddiewhich is 14 megs13:34
crashanddiewhat do I do?13:34
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crashanddieeverybody jump whooooooooo-hooooo13:34
lardmanalso the fs is compressed, so you might make it, just....13:34
lardmanif you're talking about the rootfs that is13:35
ccookecrashanddie: what are you installing to?13:35
lardmanotherwise buy a bigger uSD card13:35
crashanddieno go13:35
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crashanddielardman: I can't change the uSD card13:35
ccookecrashanddie: do you have space on it?13:35
wazdI still cant see any phone there :(13:36
ccookecrashanddie: I take it you can't uninstall anything?13:36
mgedminis gcc optified?13:37
xnt14guys the n900 is (coming) out (very soon?) !13:37
mgedmin(probably not)13:37
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Stskeepsxnt14: shipped toda13:37
Stskeepsshipping that is13:37
xnt14awesome ;)13:37
crashanddieccooke: yeah, sure13:37
crashanddielardman: PM13:37
* cehteh wonders what (local) versions are shipped, which countries13:38
crashanddieo/ lcuk13:38
ccookecrashanddie: if not and you have space free, there's the script I wrote a while back - that'll shunt some stuff into /opt for you13:38
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crashanddieccooke: I tried that, but didn't know what I was supposed to do with it13:38
crashanddiewhat was the name again?13:38
lcukhi seb13:38
* lcuk tries to beat up scratchbox13:39
* crashanddie helps lcuk 13:39
* mgedmin hands lcuk an extra spanner13:39
* Stskeeps hands lcuk a knife13:39
crashanddiescratchbox can feel the love13:39
mgedminpoor scratchbox13:39
* mgedmin stands back and watches13:39
crashanddieccooke: yup, that's the one, but how do you use it? It started asking me a bunch of questions and I didn't know what would break or not13:40
lardmancrashanddie: I don't see any PMs13:40
crashanddielardman: you need a dog then13:40
zaheermthe pulsing dots when asked to wait for something, is it in a hildon widget i can use in my app?13:40
lardmancrappy client13:41
ccookecrashanddie: okay. It's asking about whether to move files into opt for each package, ordered by the size of files in /usr13:41
* lardman restarts, bbiam13:41
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ccookecrashanddie: busybox is a *bad* one to move13:41
ccookecrashanddie: but libqt is a good bet13:41
crashanddieccooke: ok13:41
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crashanddieccooke: so which command should I type to arc or skip?13:41
ccookecrashanddie: Type 'arc' to move files to /opt13:42
ccookecrashanddie: enter to move to the next package13:42
ccookecrashanddie: if you've already moved a package's files, 'undo' will undo it.13:42
ccookecrashanddie: and as I said - *don't* move busybox or anything else you think isn't a GUI app :-)13:43
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ccookeI've moved:13:43
ccookeadobe-flashplayer, hildon-theme-alpha, libqt4-core, nokia-maps-core, nokia-maps-maplets, nokia-maps-ui13:44
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ccookeoh, and when I tried openttd, I'd moved that, too :-)13:44
serenitywill a packages out of debian-arm-repo work on a n900?13:44
ccookeserenity: without modification it's unlikely13:44
crashanddiedoes the n900 support SDIO?13:45
shayatinanyone tried porting mupen64 on maemo ?13:46
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ccookecrashanddie: given the location of the sd card, I'd guess the answer's no regardless of technical ability13:46
lardmanbecause you can't close the door13:46
crashanddiedid not compute13:46
lardmandepends on whether the card is oversided or not13:47
crashanddieah, ok13:47
crashanddieyeah, not an issue here13:47
lardmanbut you may well find there's no support as most cards are oversided13:47
ccookecrashanddie: the SD card is under the battery cover and fits into a niche: There's nowhere for anything that wouldn't fit in a microsd enclosure to go.13:47
crashanddieccooke: yeah, but SDIO does not == bigger card, so the protocol could be supported, correct?13:48
ccooke... actually, I've never seen a microsd SDIO card. Only full-size ones.13:48
lardmanyou'll need to check the kernel code13:48
sarowerI have a drawing area widget where i am playing my camera. After taking the photo i want to show the image over the drawing area instead of camera13:48
crashanddiefair enough13:48
sarowerIs it possible?13:48
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lardmansarower: yes13:48
crashanddiesarower: just change the imgsource for a second13:48
sarowercrashanddie: Sorry! Could not understand13:49
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Stskeepsmorning zerojay13:53
crashanddiesarower: your camera viewer area is set to the camera as the image source13:53
crashanddiesarower: after taking the picture, you have the image, set that as the image source for a few seconds, then switch again to the camera input13:54
sarowercrashanddie: yes...!13:54
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* ccooke considers: bluetooth keyboard, portable LCD TV with batteries, n900. 13:54
ccookeThat could be an interesting mobile coding station :-)13:54
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sarowerrashanddie: not few second...13:55
saroweri need it to show there for long time untill get the user event13:55
crashanddiewell, that's your decision mate13:55
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sarowerrashanddie: How i will set the image source source . It works with gst stuff, right?13:59
crashanddiesarower: you didn't even say which toolkit you're using13:59
crashanddiesarower: but yeah, if you're using gstreamer, it should be possible13:59
crashanddieNokia Maps is based on HTML?13:59
sarowerrashanddie: camera is related to gstelement13:59
crashanddieplease type my nickname correctly14:00
rangeHey, but it made sense, too :)14:00
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wazdroadrashanddie :D14:01
lopzhey ;)14:02
sarowercrashanddie: Sorry yaar!14:02
sarowercrashanddie: camera is showing over a drawing area widget. If i can change the drawing area widget by gtk image widget!14:03
sarowercrashanddie: it would be very simple14:03
crashanddiesarower: you could do something like that14:04
sarowercrashanddie: but i can not do that!14:04
sarowercrashanddie: IT IS NOT WORKING14:04
sarowercrashanddie: i am doing like this...14:04
crashanddiesarower: I would suggest you play around with a few different algorithms (switching gstreamer source, switching drawing area type, hidding/displaying the correct drawing area)14:04
sarowergtk_container_remove(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->cam_box), appdata->screen);14:04
crashanddiesarower: you're talking to me like it's my fault or I care14:04
Myrttihave a lollipop, for gods sake14:05
sarowergtk_container_add(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->cam_box), img);14:05
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sarowercrashanddie: No man i am considering you as an expert14:05
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crashanddiesarower: you're wrong14:06
Myrtticrashanddie: you've deserved a cookie14:06
* Myrtti hands crashanddie a cookie14:06
LynoureHow does one bookmark webpages in N900?14:08
LynoureAfter all this use, I still have not figured it out.14:08
auenfprolly the 'menu'14:08
Lynoureauenf: I tried tapping Bookmark there, and promptly was sent to look at my bookmarks14:09
jeremiahUse the little "+"14:10
VDVsxLynoure, the big "+" in the bar14:10
jeremiahThat will bookmark stuff for ya!14:10
LynoureThanks,... so obvious... and so not :)14:10
jeremiahbig, little "+"14:10
auenfwas it 'bookmark' or 'bookmarks' in the 'menu' ?14:10
wazdin fact n900 is not that "OHMYGOOOOD!!!" much thicker than droid14:10
LynoureI still need to find a way to tell the Application manager to not to hog everything at the first sight of a network connection14:11
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LynoureBecause usually when I get suddenly online after a day offline, it is  to urgently check bus schedules.14:12
jeremiahLynoure: Yeah, I am not fond of that either.14:12
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* GeneralAntilles yawns.14:20
* GeneralAntilles wonders what build the retail units will have.14:20
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lardmanI was wondering that actually ;)14:21
GeneralAntillesJaffa, ping?14:23
VDVsxI bet w44 :P14:24
lardmanI wonder when we will get this mysterious new image...? :)14:24
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, some blogger already have w42, I've seen screenshots14:25
edgar2so where to keep looking for the new image?14:25
edgar2also, i think i'd like to reflash14:25
zaheermpeople seem to have w4514:25
VDVsxbahh, I loose ;)14:26
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, doesn't mean it'll be in retail. :P14:26
lardmanzaheerm: people like whom?14:26
lardmannot us at any rate :)14:26
zaheermi saw a bug report closed saying ti works fine with w4514:26
zaheermnot me :)14:26
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, true14:26
GeneralAntillesAndre just closed some for w46.14:26
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* VDVsx wants a new image with portrait mode on the browser :P14:30
lardmanPortrait mode on the calendar for me please14:30
ShadowJKso nokia press release just said they're delivering n900 today. They didn't say to who, though14:31
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, distributors, clearly.14:32
ShadowJKMaybe they meant they sent a discounted one out14:32
zaheermprobably means nokia retail won't see them for a few days14:33
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Dantonicyes but when are they going to send it to me??14:34
TomaszDhey, is the release firmware available somewhere now that shipping has begun?14:34
* edgar2 +114:34
vesanot publically as i've understood from statements here14:34
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MyrttiI think someone should change the topic...14:35
Myrtti"yes, it has started shipping, but your guesses are as good as ours"14:35
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GeneralAntillesTomaszD, because nobody has uploaded it yet?14:35
vesaTomaszD: you'd have to ask nokia.14:35
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t_s_ohrmf, typical that i would hit a income valley when it starts showing...14:36
TomaszDI will ask Nokia14:36
lardmanwait till you get a device in your hand14:37
edgar2worksforsome :)14:37
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edgar2but for the sparta people, not so much14:37
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vesaanyone else had trouble with scratchbox net connectivity? works out but not in =/14:38
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vesait has worked in the past, usually a reboot helps but not this time14:39
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pupnikgetting some crazy noises from mplayer playing back recent youtubes14:41
pupniksomebody stacksmashing?14:41
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VDVsxso, "Maemo select" is 'mirroring' Extras ? :)14:44
kalikianatolinot as such, it includes Nokia apps as well14:45
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JaffaMorning, all14:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: pong14:46
VDVsxkalikianatoli, yup, but almost all 'Extras' apps as well ;)14:47
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jeremiahVDVsx: Nice catch :)14:47
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zaheermtrending topic on twitter: Nokia N900 Now14:50
zaheermVDVsx, wasn't that the idea?14:50
JaffaVDVsx: It's supposed to be the "best" of Extras. As Extras only contains good stuff right now...14:50
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VDVsxzaheerm, more or less, I'm not complaining or rating ;)14:51
VDVsxJaffa, ehehhe, true14:51
GAN900Jaffa, I had a though as I was skimming through the app list.14:51
GAN900Jaffa, why not drop the apostraphe from Hermes' short description?14:51
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jeremiahVDVsx: Do we have a facility for logging the extras-testing chat today?14:53
jeremiahI think I can log it with irssi if you want.14:53
VDVsxjeremiah, mmlogger is there14:53
jeremiahokay, cool14:53
wazdPeriodic table of chemical elements.14:53
vesascratchbox resolving resolved, wrong dns in resolv.conf...14:53
VDVsxjeremiah, but I don't know where the logs will end up, X-fade is the bot owner14:54
wazdCopernic was an astronomer14:54
GAN900X-Fade will have to upload them.14:55
VDVsxmgedmin, ping14:55
JaffaGAN900: Because it enriches the information of your contacts, and so it's possessive.14:56
jeremiahAnd it's grammatically correct. :)14:56
GAN900Jaffa, it can work either way14:57
GAN900Personal, I think it sounds better without.14:58
JaffaVDVsx: Besides, it's not all Extras apps: neither of mine are14:58
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JaffaGAN900: It sounds the same either way ;-)14:58
GeneralAntillesYou know what I mean. ;)14:59
GeneralAntillesOr maybe it just sounds less British.14:59
Jaffai.e. inaccurate and lazy? ;-)14:59
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wazd lol15:01
wazdnice screenshot15:02
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GAN900I vote for "contact information" or "contacts information"15:03
zaheermJaffa, hermes not in maemo select?15:03
Jaffazaheerm: Correct.15:03
zaheermthat sucks15:03
JaffaPresumably because of a rogue apostrophe? ;-)15:03
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* GeneralAntilles throws paper balls at Jaffa.15:04
fralsi wonder if its time to throw away that "n900 shipping delayed" now that its shipping from the factory15:05
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kurtanthat makes me so angry i could kill15:09
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kurtannokia sweden puts a hold on deliveries until the phone can handle 3's sim cards15:11
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zaheermkurtan, 3 exist in sweden?15:12
* kurtan is not amused15:12
* SpeedEvil is amused.15:12
zaheermhopefully nokia uk won't do the same15:12
Stskeepskurtan: time to demonstrate in front of the shops15:12
Stskeepskurtan: which is completely stupid since it's a SW issue, not HW15:12
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SpeedEvilAssuming the flash can be performed by the user15:13
kurtanand 3 only has like 1/6th of the market, its rubbish15:13
zaheermthey want more sales for n97 mini perhaps15:13
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SpeedEvilFor legal reasons - for example - is the firmware able to be shipped to end-users, along with a flash updater tool15:14
StskeepsSpeedEvil: SSU..15:14
zaheermNSU on win32 will work i guess15:15
jeremiahkurtan: I have 3 in Sweden - I had to leave them just to get my N900 to work as a phone.15:15
jeremiahI doubt this will be fixed anytime soon. :(15:15
Stskeepsit'll be in a SSU in december some claimed15:16
Myrttijeremiah: aw. I take my Nelson-impression ha-ha back15:16
lcukpeter claimed such on tmo i believe15:16
kurtanthe dude from nokia sweden claimed it to be in the next firmware due in week 4915:16
jeremiahBut too late for me.15:16
jeremiahBesides, 3 sucks.15:17
jeremiahTelenor FTW!15:17
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fralsajgioshagdg wtf sweden not selling it15:18
mgedminVDVsx, pong, kinda15:18
fralsgod i hope my retailer is selling it - no sane man is using 3 anyway!15:18
lcuko_O i have unlimited internet and SMS from o2 on my payg sim :D15:19
lcukonly 7.50 a month as a bolton :D15:19
pupnikthat is nice15:19
* lcuk is now online as it happens15:19
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Shapeshifterheh. availability in my preferred shop went up to "early december" as well.15:20
zaheermlcuk, except when all your batteries run out of juice ;)15:21
zaheermor o2's data network stops working ;)15:22
Shapeshifterthe waiting game continues. I really didn't expect it any earlier then mid-november when they said october a while ago15:22
VDVsxmgedmin, Can you loan us one of your bots ? we need one at maemo-meeting :P15:22
lcukzaheerm, have spare batteries, am used to having no internet or credit at all15:22
fralskurtan: I wonder if komplett/dustin etc gets their phones from Nokia Sverige or if its only for the people who order from
lcukso however much uptime i have now is up from before15:22
kurtanfrals: dunno, i've ordered from nokia sverige thou :(15:23
VDVsxmgedmin, can be the one at maemo-testing, we don't need him there anymore15:23
lcukanyway, wasnt stopping, dinner pinged bbl15:23
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fralsokey, i just mailed dustinhome and asked :P15:23
rangeUuuuuh, microwave.15:23
mgedminVDVsx, okay, just a sec15:24
jeremiahfrals: They probably get it from the distributor channel, i.e. TechData or Ingram Micro, etc.15:24
mgedminVDVsx, how urgent is this?15:24
fralsyeah, thats what im hoping... otherwise im gonna use my silja card and go to helsinki and buy it lol15:24
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VDVsxmgedmin, 14:30 UTC :P15:24
jeremiahsilja card?15:25
jeremiahWhat is that? :)15:25
kurtanferry line card15:25
mgedminthe bot should be there (unless the server reboots and it forgets to re-join)15:25
jeremiahI am going to Riga on Siljay15:25
VDVsxmgedmin, but if you don't have time, dont worry ;)15:25
jeremiahShould I get a card?15:25
mgedminI'll make the logs available on the web this evening, if it's all right15:25
jeremiahmgedmin: Should be fine.15:25
fralsyeah, you get a bonus card or something and you get cheaper tickets/stuff15:25
jeremiahI'm in Gbg so I won't use Silja that often.15:25
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VDVsxmgedmin, thanks :)15:26
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JaffaVDVsx: luovanto and WeAreMaemo have just confirmed on Twitter that all Extras apps are supposed to show up in Maemo Select (atm, at least)15:30
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GeneralAntillesWhat the HELL is on
GeneralAntillesAre those mutant monster fingers?15:32
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Stskeepscreepy hands v2?15:32
crashanddieapt-get install grep15:32
inzGA, they're penguins...15:33
Stskeepswtf at the penguin15:33
inz...with lasers...15:33
Stskeepsfriggen lasers!15:33
GeneralAntillesinz, Ok, I can see that.15:33
GeneralAntillesSort of15:33
inzSharks just became obsolete15:33
jeremiahIs that really a penguin?15:33
Stskeepsit's a hardcore penguin.15:34
GeneralAntillesThere are dangerous minds behind the N900 marketing campaign.15:34
Stskeepsi want to see the first video as a tv commercial15:34
fralsthe maemoproject ad is pretty nice, doesnt say a whole lot to people not familiar with the device thou15:35
jeremiahIt's a 'lifestyle' thing15:35
rangeI think they should update the stores. "BUY NOW" -> "Preorder" (at least for .de)15:35
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JaffaBah, no N900 in Forum Nokia eShop yet. Wondered what the UK discount price would be15:36
crashanddiehalp: checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... configure: error: no acceptable grep could be found in15:36
inzjeremiah, the one peeking (with LASER EYEs) behind the text is easiest to recognise15:36
ccookeObviously they're playing some sort of laser tag game. With their eyes, and the Maemo sculpture for cover15:37
jeremiahcrashanddie: Can you use xargs?15:37
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ccooke(it'd be ideal, actually - lots of holes to peer out of)15:37
Stskeepsit's symbolism of the gnubies attacking maemo for it's closed blobs15:37
crashanddiejeremiah: not my configure script, and it's bloody massive15:37
mgedmincrashanddie: apt-get install findutils?15:37
crashanddiejeremiah: and it works in scratchbox15:37
mgedminassuming it exists15:37
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mgedminbusybox grep is lame15:37
lardman|homeam trying to port some code that uses the apparently rather nasty gtk_ui_manager_add_ui_from_file() functions, any hints?15:37
crashanddiemgedmin: lol... same as apt-get install grep... Try it, it's fun15:38
crashanddieAfter this operation, 194MB disk space will be freed.15:38
mgedminand the device will be bricked15:38
mgedminapt should totally say that15:38
ccookecrashanddie: erk!15:38
crashanddiemgedmin: other options?15:40
jeremiahAfter this operation, 194MB disk will be freed and your device will go up in flames.15:40
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mgedmin5995,00 SEK looks like a lot15:40
jeremiahIt isn't15:40
fralstalk abit crowded.. Most users ever online was 1,091, Today at 14:38. :D15:40
mgedmincrashanddie: yes, but I'm too busy now to explain them15:40
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RST38hHmm...something weird is going on15:40
jeremiah6000 SEK is actually not bad at all.15:40
ShadowJKIt's SEK, move the decimal point leftward one digit15:41
Jaffajeremiah: Not for Sweden, anyway15:41
ShadowJKto start with15:41
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I tried to order mine yesterday.15:41
ShadowJKand then consider their 25% VAT15:41
* Jaffa waves from Stockholm15:41
GeneralAntillesJaffa, need to talk to the credit card company, though, since they flagged the transaction.15:41
RST38hI am getting a flood of notifications from maemo-admin: looks like some anonymous entity is voting my apps down, multiple times15:41
* jeremiah waves from Gothenburg15:41
GeneralAntillesI REALLY don't care for doing this whole deal through Forum Nokia.15:41
jeremiahThe Front of Sweden15:41
RST38hThat is not Extras-Testing votes but Maemo5 Downloads votes15:41
mgedminjeremiah, hi!15:41
* mgedmin is there too15:41
Jaffajeremiah: I thought about waving as the plane HUD showed us flying overhead.15:42
mgedminuntil saturday15:42
jeremiahI had no idea!15:42
VDVsxJaffa, cool ;915:42
GeneralAntillesObnoxious, inappropriate process, NDA agreements, overseas seller, etc, etc.15:42
jeremiahOr are you at the GNU hackers meeting?15:42
* mgedmin is consulting15:42
* mgedmin is in theory pair-programming right now15:42
jeremiahOooooh. Slick. :)15:42
RST38hHmm...What the hell15:42
GeneralAntillesDid the N810 discount program come with warranties?15:43
* kurtan waves from somewhere på landet15:43
jeremiahmgedmin: Are you in Lindholmen some where?15:43
RST38hCan we please log the IP address atleast?!?15:43
mgedminso pretty close15:43
Shapeshifterso, apparently they should be shipping today15:43
jeremiahNu ska vi talar svenska eftersom alla e i sverige!15:43
fralssvenska <315:43
RST38hmoo Myrtti15:43
mgedminthe only word I didn't understand from that was "e"15:44
onioneller e finlandssvenskar :)15:44
jeremiahe is ar15:44
fralse is slang for är15:44
mgedminslang! not fair!15:44
jeremiahwhat he said. :)15:44
jeremiahI had to use since I am use Synergy and it does something wierd to Unicode.15:44
* Jaffa gets by with "tack" and "another beer, please"15:45
JaffaOh, and "hey"15:45
JaffaI don't have to write it ;)15:45
crashanddieOK, so i tried copying the scratchbox grep to the N900, didn't work so well15:45
* mgedmin gets by with "tack" and "hej" too, and /me doesn't drink beer15:45
ShadowJKonion, du också?15:45
fralsdepending on if you are in the suburbs of stockholm or not, that might be more swedish than the average "swede".. ;P15:45
jeremiahnejmen, ShadowJK du med?15:46
mgedmincrashanddie, most likely scratchbox grep is x8615:46
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mgedminbut if you can find the armel findutils .deb and extract it ...15:46
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ShadowJKjeremiah, ja om du säger att vi ska tala sv är det väl bäst att lyda ;)15:48
VDVsxlcuk, ;)15:48
jeremiahbra sagt!15:48
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* jeremiah had no idea there were so many Swedish speakers here.15:49
zackyeller nordmenn15:49
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jeremiah Just det15:49
lcukVDVsx, best hope the gps doesnt show us as 2 streets over then15:49
Lupueller finsk som förstår lite svenska15:50
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jeremiahTankt inte pa det15:50
lcukin amsterdam, thats the difference between normality and who knows what15:50
Myrttijeremiah: fail15:50
lardman|homeanyone feel like writing a Hildon version of GTK ui manager?15:50
mgedminI studied danish for a year, that's why I kinda can read swedish15:50
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jeremiahMyrtti: Yeah, not the same without the a,a,o :)15:50
VDVsxlcuk, lol15:51
jeremiahlardman|home: I'd love to.15:51
Myrttijeremiah: man kan aldrig glömma Finlandäre som kan svenska...15:51
ShadowJKmgedmin, to me the people in south sweden sound like danish anyway... </troll>15:51
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mgedminheh, I can't really understand either language, when spoken15:51
jeremiahLike Linus Torvalds!15:51
mgedminto me spoken swedish sounds a bit like spoken japanese sometimes15:51
fralskurtan: just got reply from dustinhome, they wont get it before Nokia Sverige starts to sell it appearently :<15:51
kurtanfrals.. bah15:52
Myrttijeremiah: men han är ju finlandssvenskt, inte bara en finlandäre som kan prata svenska15:52
fralsbut someone the forum you posted got a reply from netonnet saying they are shipping this week (planned)15:52
kurtan but s/Glenn Beck/Klas Ström15:52
kurtanfrals: saw that15:52
jeremiahMyrtti: reall?15:52
jeremiahI thought he was from Finland.15:53
ShadowJKhe is15:53
ShadowJKIt's like the french speakers in canada15:53
frals*orders from netonnet*15:53
jeremiahFrench Canadians are just freaks.15:53
Myrttijeremiah: there's a difference between Swedes who've moved here from Sweden, and people speaking Swedish that have been here since age eternal15:54
Myrttis/here/to Finland/15:54
infobotMyrtti meant: jeremiah: tto Finland's a difference between Swedes who've moved here from Sweden, and people speaking Swedish that have been here since age eternal15:54
sarowerCan not i add widget in a GTK_BOX dynamicaly?15:54
pabloAnybody know where the " qt-x11-maemo" ?? Finished? Moved?15:54
sarowerIt can be removed but adding is not working!15:54
fralsthat was a pretty bad s :D15:54
MyrttiI know15:54
jeremiah"s/" may have trouble with unicode15:55
MyrttiI'll go sacrifice a herring on the altar of Linux later15:55
lardman|homejeremiah: really.....?15:55
jeremiahlardman|home: Sorry, I was being sarcastic. :/15:55
lardman|homethought so, don't worry ;)15:55
* jeremiah hides from lardman|home 15:55
* lardman|home can only see weird glibisms spinning thro his head so no fear15:56
sarowerCan not i add widget in a GTK_BOX dynamicaly?15:56
sarowerIt can be removed but adding is not working!15:56
ShadowJKAnd then there are the native-finnish-language finns who've learned swedish as a second language in school...15:57
pupnikdoes it fail with a message sarower ?15:57
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sarowerpupnik: No message15:57
ShadowJKBut then it gets complicated to assign names when these minority-language people move across borders :-)15:58
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sarowerIam using "gtk_container_add(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->img_view_box), img);"16:01
sarowerand "gtk_box_pack_start(GTK_BOX(appdata->img_view_box), img, FALSE, FALSE, 0);"16:01
mgedminwhat is the type of img_view_box?16:02
mgedmindid you make img visible?16:02
mgedminwidgets are hidden by default16:02
sarowerit also does not solves the prob16:03
mgedminusually you do (1) create buncha widgets (2) stuff them inside each other (3) call show_all(), but if you then do (4) add new widgets, you'll need to (5) show() them manually16:03
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ccookeOh, impressive. From , try to buy an n900 from the UK store :-)16:03
vesaanyone done location stuff with maemo5? the example lists methods such as location_gpsd_control_stop which don't seem to exist.16:03
mgedminwhat do they mean "it's not serious"???16:03
ccookemgedmin: indeed!16:03
lardman|homevesa: yeah16:04
mgedminheh, the swedish shop has a dropdown for selecting colour16:04
mgedminthe only option is 'black'16:04
lardman|homethat fn doesn't seem to work tho16:04
ShadowJKaw, no CP-321 on .fi nokia store16:04
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Jaffaccooke: indeed16:05
lardman|homeargh, the cursed slow!16:05
JaffaYay, Hermes in Maemo Select16:05
RST38hdestroooy16:05 is spamming me with e-mails :(16:05
RST38hlardman: Weird crap going on: some anonymous entity is voting my apps down, like dozens of time in a row16:05
sjgadsbyIt's odd that people keep reporting the Talk username "YuuDumFuks" as offensive, but no one complains about "urnass", member since 2007. Is it the camelcase?16:06
wazdRST38h: same for you btw? :)16:06
sarowermgedmin: Boss it is working now!16:06
VDVsxwazd, what did you got ?16:06
sarowermgedmin: Thank you16:06
RST38hwazd: Yep16:06
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wazdRST38h: damn)16:06
lardman|homesjgadsby: shall I use my super powers to change his name to something less offensive? Like Iiimanidiot?16:06
Jaffasjgadsby: Yeah, the camel casing forces a particular pronounciation, wheres I'd pronounce "urnass" as "your-nass"16:07
wazdVDVsx: "ATI85 page has been commented by Jaffa. Obey!"16:07
VDVsxwazd, ahah16:07
lardman|homeoh come on, I want to look at the liblocation apis16:07
wazdVDVsx: 10 same e-mails already16:07
crashanddieanyone got an idea on how to get a real grep on the n900?16:07
VDVsxwazd, I also got some for Supertux16:07
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Jaffasjgadsby: However, I've got in trouble before for supposition as to other's actions (particularly with Texrat)16:08
mgedmincrashanddie: what I would do was apt-get source -b findutils in scratchbox, then scp the grep binary over16:09
mgedmina nicer way to have grep for everyone would be to build a package that, I dunno, uses dpkg-divert maybe to move the busybox grep aside?16:09
mgedminwhich sounds like work16:10
vesalardman|home: but my problem seems to be in the linking phaze.16:10
vesalardman|home: ie. it's not even compiling yet =) i've got -llocation, is there some other lib that i should be including?16:10
zaheermJaffa, saw hermes on maemo select just now :)16:11
fiferboyAny guesses on when the final firmware will be available?16:11
lardman|homevesa: use pkg-config16:11
lardman|homevesa: what app are you making?16:12
SpeedEvilfiferboy: 4:37 in the morning of the 14th of november. (UTC).16:12
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lardman|homehey fiferboy16:12
fiferboySpeedEvil: That is a precise guess16:12
mgedminSpeedEvil, is that 4:37:00 or 4:37:59?16:12
fiferboyhi lardman|home16:12
mgedminbe specific, man!16:12
lardman|homewe want pico-seconds!16:13
ShadowJKwonderful... the "create account" button on store is not clickable16:13
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vesalardman|home: not so much an app as a runtime kind of thing.16:13
SpeedEvilfiferboy: 4:37:15.8816:13
SpeedEvil Now - that is _clever_16:14
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fiferboySpeedEvil: Thanks for the clarification16:14
SpeedEvil(though not directly related to n90016:14
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vesalardman|home: just getting to grips with maemo development implementing the location -wrappers for our umm. 'base'16:14
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BBNSyeah ... finally shipped!16:14
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, nice.16:14
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vesalardman|home: is the actual end product16:15
lardman|homeand IDE?16:16
lardman|homeah, a lang16:16
BBNS1,110 online 0_0 see tmo will break even higher record today.16:17
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lardman|homewhat's the best bet for geocoding? Google or GeoNames?16:18
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RST38hwazd: Somebody is really busy voting all the apps down16:19
SpeedEvil'best' is a _horribly_ complex thing.16:19
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lardman|homeeasiest to implement in C ;)16:19
RST38hwazd: You are only receiving ati85 notifications but I am getting them all16:19
SpeedEvilThere can be nasty license provisions for example16:19
lardman|homeor rather use16:19
SpeedEvilI would say openstreetmaps namefinder, but it's currently broken AIUI16:20
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lardman|homeshame I can't just have raw lat/lon data from a contact16:20
lardman|homeah well GeoNames looks simple enough to use16:21
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lardman|homethat will have to do for the time being16:21
VDVsxRST38h, yup, seems so16:21
cehtehdoes the n900 work without battery when you plug the charger in?16:23
mgedminn8x0 didn't16:23
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Stskeepslo qwerty1216:24
qwerty12Hiya, stemosco16:24
lardman|homehmm, I seem to remember being told at the summit that Nokia would provide a (reverse)geocoding api for us to use16:24
lardman|homeam I remembering properly?16:24
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RST38hVDVwsx: Yours too???16:24
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crashanddiemgedmin: (from scratchbox) scp /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/bin/grep root@whatever:/usr/bin seems to have done the trick16:25
VDVsxRST38h, yup16:25
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VDVsxRST38h, from anonymous :P16:26
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mgedmincrashanddie: cool16:29
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mgedminI assumed grep might be redirected to a native grep16:29
mgedminnative as in x8616:29
ShadowJKcehteh, most likely not16:29
RST38hVDVsx: We have got a vigilante! Somebody has finally got insane while waiting for his N900!16:30
VDVsxRST38h, ehhehe16:30
* RST38h can't quite get over the feeling of accomplishment at driving another mindless human vermin insane16:30
* RST38h cackles evilly16:30
ShadowJKare they voting all apps down, or just the maemo5 apps down?16:31
VDVsxShadowJK, only maemo5 so far for me16:32
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Stskeepsscary @ 1130 users on tal16:33
ShadowJKoh that's a bit funny then :)16:33
VDVsx----> Q&A and Extras-testing discussion @ #maemo-meeting - Starting in a few minutes16:33
lardman|homehas anyone got pocketsphinx working?16:33
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* frals heads over to #maemo-meeting for quality stalking16:34
RST38hVDVsx: The Tentacled One is having a feast tonight!16:35
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FlandryFatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/core/privilege.php on line 45716:37
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FlandryI so love trying to use m.o :D16:37
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fralswell atleast talk is still fast ;)16:38
Flandryfunny how that works16:38
Flandryanything to actually be productive takes forever16:38
Flandrywe can chat it up all day unhindered16:38
wazdRST38h: jeez :S16:38
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FlandryFrom the looks of things the testing process needs a bit of streamlining16:41
Flandry(might as well throw that old chestnut in there while i'm saying redundant things)16:42
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Messijuego de boxeo online
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lardmanI see geoclue offers geocoding17:02
lardmanbut we use liblocation, so back to the original question - will Nokia offer an api (which is what was mentioned at the summit)?17:02
vesathe camera gives tags when you have geotagging on (worked atleast in london)17:03
vesaso i guess it's more of 'when will they release the api'17:04
lardmanso it tags the photos "London"?17:04
vesayeah, i'm just trying to find something from the device to see what it's got17:04
lardmanmight have to do some decompilation17:04
lardmanbut first I'll email the list and ask17:04
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vesayeah, just tags 'finland, helsinki' if i take one now17:05
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Jaffalardman: liblocation and libaddress17:06
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vesalibaddress doesn't seem to be in the docs17:07
sarowerg_signal_connect (G_OBJECT (appdata.normal_image_box), "button_press_event", G_CALLBACK (add_camera_screen), &appdata);17:08
sarowergetting appdata null here17:08
saroweradd_camera_screen(GtkWidget *widget, gpointer data)17:08
sarowerany help!17:08
sarowerdata is null here17:09
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lardmanJaffa: thanks17:10
Jaffavesa: probably not!17:10
lardmanare there any headers for it?17:10
* lardman is at work on a Windows box so can't look17:11
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Ceron^hi, i heard n900 is shipping17:12
Ceron^is it true? :P17:13
Ceron^did i hafto preorder 10 months ago to get it?17:13
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SuurorcaI suppose "shipping" means it'll take a few days until the distributos get it and a few days still until stores have it in stock :/17:14
lardmanhow do I get into here?
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lardmanI need some strange token iirc17:15
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qwerty12lardman: If you wish to browse it:
lardmanah, ideal17:16
GiantTalkingCowSo according to Reuters, the N900 has started shipping. About time, I say.17:18
lardmanhmm, no libaddress in there17:19
* ccooke idly considers porting mutt to the n90017:21
ccookewith notifications :-)17:21
RST38hccooke: Alpine!!!17:21
ccookethat shouldn't be at all difficult17:21
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ccookeRST38h: heh. I used pine for *years*. It took me ages to switch to mutt. But I think mutt's a better client overall... sorry :-)17:21
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mgedminmutt rules17:22
frals(is this where i promote outlook?)17:22
mgedminfrals, if you want to get a lot of free rotten fruit, yes17:23
* lardman prepares the pots of burning oil17:23
qwerty12lardman: I remember your client of choice17:23
lardmanwell yeah, I'm stuck with it tho17:23
wazdwho did transmission for fremantle btw?17:23
* qwerty12 puts his hand up17:24
wazdqwerty12: any wish to make it look cool? :)17:24
RST38hyess yess17:24
* mgedmin feels cheated17:24
RST38hAlthough Transmission already looks pretty good17:24
mgedminin amsterdam they demoed transmission plugin for canola 217:25
kalikianatolisarower, where is appdate allocated/ declared?17:25
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mgedminI installed canola 2 and it isn't there!17:25
mgedminnot released yet probably17:25
qwerty12wazd: Sure. :) Only change I have made to the main window recently is to kill off its Filterbar and shove the filters in the menu and the searchbar was added to the toolbar :)17:25
kalikianatolisarower,  you can't pass it if it's a struct* appdata inside a function17:25
kalikianatoliif it's a struct appdata, even17:25
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* lardman wishes for an online tool to search the repos17:30
RST38hlardman: Packrat17:30
lardmannice, thanks :)17:30
wazdqwerty12: I'll check it in SDK and see what can be improved :)17:31
qwerty12wazd: Thank you :)17:31
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lardmanhmm, I could have sworn flite was available for Diablo, anyone know where it came from?17:33
qwerty12It wasn't. People used the Chinook version17:33
lardmanoh ok17:33
RST38hchinook, diablo, who cares? same thing17:33
qwerty12Chinook version was ported by gnuite who uploaded it to Extras in the times when there was no autobuilder and people were free to upload stuff without source17:34
qwerty12(in free, that is)17:34
* lardman feeling the love for speaking and listening phones after seeing Android in action17:34
hrw   Discounted Devices Program: N900  250.00 EUR17:34
hrwAdd to Cart17:34
ccookeoooh, that's a nice deal17:34
mgedmincool, I thought it was supposed to be 300 EUR17:35
hrwnow time to read nda ;(17:35
lardmanhrw: you still involved with OE?17:35
hrwmgedmin: 50% of price (about 300eur dependly on market)17:35
hrwlardman: I live from OE and Poky17:35
penguinbaityou have to sign NDA to order dev unit?17:35
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lardmanhrw: your links at the top of this page are about half broken:
GiantTalkingCowAnd what's the 'Discounted Devices Program'? Dev discount?17:36
* qwerty12 has still yet to order his DDP N900...17:36
penguinbaityou can get at dell for under 500US and its 371US17:36
penguinbaitits not a 50% saving in the US17:37
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mgedminhey, _I_ still don't see N900 in the forum nokia eStore17:37
qwerty12mgedmin: I had to do some weird shit like going to Pro first, and then going back to the eStore17:37
lardmanhrw: where do I find the OE metadata tree? Is there still a way of browsing it from online?17:37
mgedminthey make us jump through hoops?17:37
Stskeeps <- nokia marketing scares me17:37
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* mgedmin wonders if he should maybe log in17:38
mgedminthat worked!17:38
hrwmgedmin: logged in?17:38
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Ceron^ ->
Ceron^finnish metro water flood17:39
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GiantTalkingCowStskeeps: The marketing for the new Motorola Droid here in the US is even scarier. It's like an old Sega commercial on meth.17:40
RST38hBesides, Droid shows the Eye of Sauron on bootup17:40
Stskeepsthis would have been great on halloween17:41
penguinbaitI see what you mean Stskeeps, wtf17:41
GiantTalkingCowI've been on the fence in regards to a smartphone for a while, but seeing as the n900 is being sold unlocked in quite a few places, I'll likely end up going for it. The data and voice plans that most of the normal smartphones come with are insanely overpriced.17:42
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Suurorcathey could have made that ad just sooo much better :/17:42
penguinbaitwill the ddp program still end at end of year, or was it also extended?17:44
Ceron^hrw: where to get it for 250 euro?17:45
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penguinbaitbyt the way, I took some medication earlier, am I the only one seeing the Giant Talking Cow?17:45
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Stskeepsdepends, what kind of meds?17:45
Ceron^hrw: tell me please17:46
hrwCeron^: n900 discount program offered for that price for me17:46
javispedropenguinbait: you too? )17:46
Ceron^hrw: what discount program?17:46
mgedminCeron^, go back in time, accumulate lots of karma, get invited to the developer discount program17:46
hrwCeron^: if you did not know about program then you dont get17:46
GiantTalkingCowA talking cow? Nonsense, there's no such thing!17:46
mgedminthe invitations went out a couple of months ago17:46
mgedminor maybe one month17:46
Ceron^i call that bullshit17:46
Ceron^580euro vs 250 euro...17:47
Ceron^seriously i dont like this marketing at all..17:47
hrwmgedmin: less then month even17:47
Ceron^yeh so if i posted alot at i would have got discount codes :\17:48
lardmanquite possibly17:48
GiantTalkingCowYou guys in Europe get screwed over on all sorts of high-tech gadget pricing, and not just by American firms, either. :I17:48
Ceron^anyone know the cheapest europian store17:49
Ceron^to buy n900 from17:49
lardmanbuy it with a contract, you'll need one anyway17:49
javispedroCeron^: well yeah, if you posted a few posts in tmo, uplaoded 3 apps to mo/d, filled some bugs in bugzilla and mailed some nonsense to the -users mailing list you'd have a discount.17:49
Ceron^lardman: i dont i got company simcard17:49
wirelessdreamerI've been having trouble getting scratchbox to connect to the net when I change netconnections, the host can ping, but scratchbox can't resolv anything17:49
wirelessdreameri've checked resolv.conf and route17:50
GiantTalkingCowlardman: Not really. It's being sold unlocked here in the US, so all you need is a SIM card to put in, and you're fine.17:50
lardmanwell invest the money you'd otherwise spend on a contract then ;)17:50
wirelessdreamerany other ideas?17:50
Ceron^lardman: anyway, where to find the cheapest price17:50
lardmanGiantTalkingCow: yeah, but you need a contract to use it, so may as well get a discounted phone + contract17:50
Ceron^one would think you guys would know :)17:50
Ceron^this channel is full of n900 hungry people. There should be some good links17:51
lardmanno idea17:51
lardmanthere were a few threads on TMO iirc17:51
javispedroThis channel is full of n900 owners instead ... :P17:51
GiantTalkingCowlardman: I'd rather pay the full price and use my existing SIM. I'm not fond of contracts.17:51
RST38hjavispedro: loan recipients rather17:51
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lardmanGiantTalkingCow: just have to work out the costs and go the cheapest way17:51
javispedroRST38h: touché.17:51
wazdqwerty12: well, plenty of work to do in fact :D17:52
* qwerty12 whistles17:52
trudid you guys see the n900 ad?17:53
trunot sure if I am going to be scared or awed.17:53
Stskeepstru: i think it's meant to make the iphone marketing guys piss their pants..17:53
wirelessdreamertru: have a link?17:54
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javispedro friggin penguins with friggin lasers!!!17:54
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lardmanhmm, not available in the Uk store anyway17:56
mikhasgreat picture17:56
mikhasdo the penguins attack maemo?17:56
* wazd needs new pants17:57
* mgedmin at work, wants to watch the ad, but must resist17:57
mikhasor the product launch?17:57
javispedromikhas: lol17:57
javispedrois with this ad at 2:0017:57
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javispedro"I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm not sleeping in the same room as my N900 any more. It's going to be sleeping inside a safe. In concrete." lol17:58
RST38hjavispedro: how about adding n900 to SCP? ;)17:59
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yuizyjavispedro: ;D17:59
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javispedrodid they hire Family Guy guionists for the ad or what18:00
mgedminhey, openssh autostarts just fine!18:00
mgedminwhy doesn't avahi-daemon???18:00
mgedmindash in init.d script name?18:00
VDVsxjavispedro, nice, n900 + free handset :
zaheermis there an issue with avahi and ip address/network changing etc.18:01
javispedroStskeeps: oh, they're not using in sysvinit compat mode? score an extra point for maemo18:01
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mgedminVDVsx, ITYM headset18:02
wazdcool CG btw18:02
wazdfor youtube quality at least18:02
mgedminah, openssh-server ships an event.d file18:02
javispedroVDVsx: saw it (btw they still say 1 GiB _RAM_). Even though if I get the DDP one...18:02
* mgedmin rubs hands excitedly18:02
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RST38hSomebody kill the anonymous guy!18:03
RST38hHe is going nuts!18:03
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dmj726So apparently they make n900s out of crazy people.18:04
dmj726n900 is people18:04
VDVsxmgedmin, yes, lol18:04
javispedroinsane people infected with some random spacetime distorting virus18:06
RST38hjavis: It is the Tentacled One and his diet of human brains18:06
javispedrook, I want more perverted ads like this one18:07
javispedrothe next one we need more gore18:07
RST38hThe victims are still alive, but their skulls are empty, funny, isn't it? =)18:07
dmj726It's known as penguinitis and it has an unfortunate tendency to infect open source programmers.18:07
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javispedroI hope it features the Umbrella corp logo18:07
Stskeepsand cause penguins to shoot lasers18:07
javispedro"Nokia drives you mad"18:08
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Stskeepspenguinbait: council member attention needed in #maemo-meeting18:09
Suurorcah, nice Idea. I just might have to create an umbrella bootvideo for it ;D18:09
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Ceron^The Nokia N900 will be available in retail stores in November with an estimated retail price of EUR 500, excluding sales taxes and subsidies.18:10
Ceron^100 euro taxes :(18:10
mikhas-500 euro subsidies, though18:11
mikhasthat's what I expect, at least =)18:11
vesalardman: location problem fixed. missing extern "C" around the location includes18:12
javispedro"I guess it had to happen eventually. Some Emos have found work in the advertising trades, and here's their idea of branding and product promotion. God help us when they get elected to public office..." today I find Engadget's comments quite entertaining... maybe because of meds :)18:12
vesai hear this might be what you might call a 'shortcoming' of the headers18:12
vesawe use a c++ compiler and not c...18:12
dmj726I suspect that this ad may only appeal to people who already like the n90018:12
lardmanvesa: cool18:12
mgedminvesa, 'shortcoming' is arguable; the API is for C, not for C++18:13
vesawell that's true, but it's quite a simple fix and so far everything else works with c++18:13
mgedminalthough I do see your point of view18:14
nomismhm, I suspect that I just have to live with a QWERTY-keyboard when using the discounted devices program, right?18:14
Stskeepsput a label on it and select other hw keyboard type?18:15
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javispedroor try to create a bastardized layout where at least the symbols match18:15
javispedrowhich is what I plan to do18:16
javispedro(match with what's printed on the device, I mean)18:16
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wazdqwerty12: ok, I've downloaded new Transmission look from the Astral DB, now I need to draw it :)18:22
qwerty12Cool, thank you :)18:22
VDVsxJaffa, humm, your pymaemo test is interesting, did you tried to do any performance tests ?18:23
JaffaVDVsx: Not properly, no18:23
JaffaJust gut feel18:24
VDVsxruntime performance tests should be easy to do ;)18:24
lizardoJaffa: I'll answer you there on the list, for the records :)18:24
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crashanddieBest algorithm to test N900 performance: every 10ns, launch a new thread that generates 50 md5sums of microtime * Integer.parse(substr(/dev/random, 0, 10)) (preferably in Java)18:27
mgedminJaffa, did you test that bind-mounting init script on the device?18:27
mgedminbecause I'm baffled now: do init.d scripts work or not?18:27
Andy80hi all18:27
mgedminthey kinda should, but for avahi-daemon they don't18:27
Jaffamgedmin: Yes, I did test it on device.18:28
wazdwooo, modern warfare 2 is out!18:28
Jaffamgedmin: rc2.d?18:29
mgedminbtw there's some kind of syntax for doing bind mounts straight from /etc/fstab, but I never remember it18:29
Jaffamgedmin: Oh, cool18:29
javispedro/device /mount/point auto bind18:29
mgedmin$ grep -v ^# /etc/rc2.d/S50avahi-daemon |head18:29
mgedmintouch /tmp/avahi-daemon-init.d-script-was-run18:29
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mgedminafter boot I look in /tmp, and nothing18:29
javispedroeven though I don't know if busybox's mount -a accepts it18:29
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Jaffamgedmin: I'll look closer this evening. Perhaps I've played tricks on myself18:33
mgedminI'm pretty sure _I_ missed something, but so far I haven't figured out what18:33
mgedminsome run-rc.d variants may be unhappy with dashes in filenames maybe18:34
JaffaOr something upstarty needs to be prodded?18:34
mgedminS20osso-applet-display disagrees18:34
mgedminit's possible the whole /etc/init.d is a big fat decoy18:34
* Jaffa goes to get Stockholm's #1 bus from Stora Essingen to, err, best check.18:35
mgedminbut /etc/event.d/rcS says "This task runs the old sysv-rc startup scripts."18:35
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mgedmin/etc/init.d/rcS ignores .d and does everything manually18:36
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Jaffamgedmin: Doh!18:38
Jaffamgedmin: So, we need to put something in /etc/event.d18:39
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mgedminwho maintains avahi-daemon?18:39
mgedminI don't think Utopia Maintenance Team <> will be happy to get maemo-specific queries18:40
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mgedminand thanks to docpurge I can't look at /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/changelog.Debian.gz18:41
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qwerty12mgedmin: The version in extras-devel was uploaded by "jhs_s", if that is any help...18:41
greenflywow. I didn't realize maemo5 used so much upstart18:41
mgedmin/etc/event.d/sshd is a nice role model18:42
mgedminthe bits with mkdir /var/ ought to be included in the screen package18:42
greenflybut yeah, I don't see the old backwards-compatible sysV upstart scripts in /etc/event.d18:42
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greenflyother than rcS, which just starts one shell script18:43
greenflyso it looks like everyone will have to use upstart18:43
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greenflywhich honestly, this is a good platform to make that shift18:45
mgedmincutting edge tech18:46
mgedminwell, not really18:46
javispedrodoes ssh only start up when net is up or something like that?18:46
mgedminupstart 0.3.8-56+0m518:46
mgedminkarmic comes with 0.6.3-1018:47
greenflyheh, yeah upstart came into play with Ubuntu 6.10 IIRC but most people didn't realize it was there18:47
mgedmin/etc/event.d is obsolete and no longer supported, iirc, upstart now uses a different config syntax and files in /etc/init/*.conf18:47
greenflysince all it really managed (besides PID 1) was ttys, and running sysinit for different runlevels18:47
greenflyto make it more confusing there's the /etc/event.replace.d18:48
mgedminproblem is: now I can't copy and paste upstart config files from my laptop to my n90018:50
greenflyahh, you have to backport them to the old syntax?18:50
mgedminand there are semantic differences too18:50
mgedmine.g. on the n900 /etc/event.d/dbus has "exec /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork"18:51
mgedminon karmic /etc/init/dbus.conf has "exec dbus-daemon --system --fork"18:51
mgedminah, there's also "expect fork"18:51
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* javispedro ponders the DDP19:10
* mgedmin wonders about the taxes and duties19:10
javispedrothat too.19:11
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javispedrodo they ship from finland?19:13
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* mgedmin just reproduced 600419:18
javispedrobug #600419:18
povbotBug N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable19:18
mgedminwhen they ship and how long they travel is another very good question19:18
mgedminwould be fun if the n900 arrived home before I did19:18
javispedrothe site says "3 bussines days"19:18
javispedroer.. don't mind the typo19:19
mgedminthe forum nokia estore?19:19
javispedromgedmin: yep19:19
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mgedminI didn't notice19:19
* javispedro looks19:19
javispedro"Usually ships within three business days."19:19
mgedmin"usually" is a good word19:20
mgedminhow often do they ship just-released n900s?19:21
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javispedroI'd assume it's copied and pasted from all the other "device developers" items we don't have access to.19:21
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mgedminI assume it means "we will try to ship within three days, but if we can't, don't go back complaining that we promised"19:24
wazdjavispedro: hah, they can't even ship me an e-mail so I wouldn't expect anything :D19:24
* mgedmin always found the phrase "shiping an email" very funny19:25
mgedminmental picture always goes to an ocean liner carrying a cardboard box with a printout of an email inside19:25
greenflyyou need an ocean liner because the rest of it is full of other cardboard boxes full of printouts of spam :)19:26
lcuki always see a little dinghy with an overworked grunt rowing slowly across the pacific19:26
javispedromgedmin: well, the alternative to putting "usually" is adding a load of "standard disclaimers"19:26
mgedminwhat do they use for shipping, anyway?19:26
javispedrowazd: yeah, that scaries me.19:26
mgedminthe post office?19:26
javispedromgedmin: DHL19:26
javispedroSince I'm not a company19:29
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javispedrohow I am supposed to "agree" to the NDA19:29
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mgedminwithout reading it, probably19:34
javispedroactually mentioning it is forbidden too.19:34
mgedminmentioning what?19:34
javispedroactually, the entire NDA is rather moot for mortals like me.19:35
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LurkerXXX_The N900 is finally shipping. :)19:54
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GiantTalkingCowYep, heard about it a few hours ago. I figure I'll try one out sometime this week, then decide whether or not to get it. I'm mostly concerned about the keyboard and its performance.19:55
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mgedmincompared to a laptop, both suck19:56
mgedmincompared to a n810, both are stellar19:56
cosmo_it can't say it's better than n810's.. feels pretty same19:57
mgedminsudo dpkg -i procps*.deb -- good idea, bad idea, Very Bad Idea ?19:57
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mgedminwish I could test apt-get, but I'm too lazy to look up how to set up an apt repo on the filesystem19:57
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mgedminuploading procps to extras-devel blindly: good idea, bad idea, treasonous shoot-on-sight idea?19:58
mgedminworst thing that could happen: somebody installs it and removes busybox plus a few hundred meg of absolutely essential system packages, device is bricked19:58
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zaheermmgedmin, flasher will fix it :)19:59
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mgedminas soon as the official image appears somewhere19:59
mgedminanybody seen an image?19:59
mgedminyeah, me neither20:00
zaheermmaybe it is on some torrent by now ;)20:00
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mgedminmaybe they're shipping OS-less N900s20:00
toggles_whmm.. amazon claim they can deliver it tomorrow..20:00
LurkerXXX_somehow I doubt that20:01
ShadowJKprocps on N8x0 makes things go kaboom iirc20:01
toggles_wyeah, me too20:01
LurkerXXX_but they should be able to deliver within a couple more days.20:01
javispedromgedmin: don't upload logic bombs to extras-devel please20:01
toggles_wnewegg says 14/11 so yeah, should be soon20:01
javispedroit still makes me sad when people say "extras-devel is dangerous because there's newer versions of libs that won't go into -stable"20:02
mgedminjavispedro, I'm currently trying to determine whether it's a logic bomb or not20:02
mgedminwithout exploding my n90020:02
mgedminin the process20:02
mgedminhey, I've got a repo at!20:02
mgedminfor precisely this kind of private minefield reasons20:02
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* javispedro can't imagine which qa testing plan needs to upload the candidate bombs to a online repo20:03
ShadowJKmgedmin, I think you need to compile it so that the utilities get an extra prefix, like for example "real", so that top becomes realtop, etc, and then the package dependencies, provides and conflicts need to be fixed up...20:03
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mgedminhow do I open a URL from the command line?20:07
mgedminmagic dbus message?20:07
mgedminoh, browser --url20:07
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mikkov__Nokia Software Updater has a new firmware20:11
mgedminis that the windows thing?20:12
Stskeepsmore interestingly, does :P20:12
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mgedminStskeeps, xchat doesn't make urls clickable when you omit the http://20:12
mikkov__it's the windows thing, yes20:13
qwerty12mikkov_: Thanks for the heads up. Do you know if it tries to flash the eMMC?20:13
mikkov__file size is 161.4 MB20:13
mikkov__installing it now, let's see20:13
mikkov__didn't read all warnings :)20:14
* mgedmin riots20:14
zaheermmikkov_, :)20:14
zaheermmikkov_, you are our guinea pig20:14
mgedminoh, hey, any ideas whether the new firmware will be available via SSU?20:14
qwerty12Doesn't sound like it: The RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.40-3.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin file I have is 235MB20:14
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mgedminpoor compression?20:15
qwerty12RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-10_PR_LEGACY_TRUE_ARM.bin is 161MB20:15
mikkov__version is 1.2009.41.1120:15
qwerty12So I guess the eMMC doesn't get flashed, which is good news for me :)20:15
mgedminthat's the amsterdam one, right?20:15
mikkov__version is 1.2009.42.1120:15
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zaheermmikkov_, interesting...20:15
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mgedminmikkov_, you anticipated my question20:16
mgedminwoohoo, nice!20:16
mikkov__magic :)20:16
mgedminyes, nice!20:16
mgedminsudo apt-get install procps: The following packages will be REMOVED: busybox-symlinks-procps20:16
timeless_mbpmgedmin: the eMMC is regional20:16
mgedminthey made a package with nothing but symlinks20:16
timeless_mbpthe US image is 1.6G iirc20:16
qwerty12mikkov_: I'll update my device tommorow if your device doesn't get killed today :p20:16
timeless_mbpother images are considerably smaller20:17
timeless_mbpbtw, have people plugged their n900's into normal computers?20:17
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mgedminokay, the BAD thing about my procps is that it only ships kill and ps20:17
javispedro"normal computers" as in blessed by gates?20:17
mgedminwhere's uptime, pkill, watch, free, pgrep, top?20:17
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timeless_mbpjavispedro: OS X, Windows, or Ubuntu 9.04+20:18
mgedminah, in /usr/bin, where they belong20:18
mgedminfalse alarm20:18
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mgedmintimeless_mbp, ubuntu 9.1020:18
greenflytimeless_mbp: I've connected it to an ubuntu 9.10 machine20:18
mgedminany specific questions?20:18
mgedminI've got it plugged it right now20:18
timeless_mbpwhat do you see on the desktop and do you like it?20:18
mgedminhm, I asked it not to mount20:19
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greenflyif you tell it mass storage mode the photo manager will fire up20:19
mgedminI remember seeing a cellphone icon20:19
timeless_mbpdid you like it?20:19
mgedminit was a very cellphone'y cellphone20:19
greenflyIn my case I didn't want to upload any photos20:19
greenflyso it sorta gets in the way, but I can always turn that off20:19
mgedminI'd rather have an icon that looks like a n90020:19
timeless_mbpthe photo manager bit isn't my fault20:19
mgedminwhich ought to be possible20:19
timeless_mbpwait, what!?20:20
greenflyyeah, understood20:20
timeless_mbpscreenshot please20:20
timeless_mbpbecause well...20:20
timeless_mbpscreenshot first, story later20:20
mgedminscreenshot of what?20:20
timeless_mbpthe picture you see on the desktop20:20
* timeless_mbp grumbles20:20
* timeless_mbp will probably kill someone20:20
* timeless_mbp worked *very* hard on that thing20:20
timeless_mbpit was supposed to be a very shiny n900 icon20:20
timeless_mbpand they had a month to integrate it20:21
mikkov__OK, this Software Updater is crap20:21
timeless_mbpmikkov_: what happened?20:21
zaheermmikkov_, it bricked the phone?20:21
qwerty12timeless_mbp: That N900 icons shows up on the Windows running computers I've connected my N900 to20:21
mikkov__it crashed when it was supposed to start flashing'20:21
timeless_mbpqwerty12: screenshot please20:21
mgedmintimeless_mbp, you'll kill somebody, since now I see a generic "document" icon20:21
timeless_mbpthere were two rounds of a picture20:21
mgedminmaybe what I remember was with ubuntu 9.04 before I upgraded20:21
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: there's a .n900.ico on the root of the volume20:22
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lardmanoh great debian packagers, are you here?20:22
qwerty12timeless_mbp: sec20:22
timeless_mbpopen it and see if it gives a shiny thing or a black thing20:22
timeless_mbpmgedmin: is that a 770 serving it?20:22
mgedminnah, office adsl line with puny uplink20:23
zaheermmore like an s40 device20:23
mikkov__let's see if I can resurrect this thing20:23
sp3000how about progressive png ;)20:23
timeless_mbpor icon at top of desktop...20:23
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* javispedro contributes to overloaded mgedmin's adsl line20:24
zaheerm#maemo effect?20:24
mgedmin2-line paste flood warning!20:24
mgedminmg@platonas:/media/Nokia N900 $ sha1sum .n900.ico20:24
mgedmindbd690b709a35aaa7136144ad44439041d633110  .n900.ico20:24
javispedrosince when gnome cares about .ico files?20:24
mgedmintimeless_mbp, all my viewers say my .n900.ico is broken or invalid20:24
luke-jrmgedmin: you just violated the copyright terms on that icon!20:24
* qwerty12 bans mgedmin 20:24
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sp3000doesn't the warning make it 3?20:24
timeless_mbpsp3000: fax header page counts have always been fun20:25
timeless_mbpbtw, the gnome message text is buggy20:25
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timeless_mbpwe're debating filing bugs20:25
timeless_mbp'what' => 'the20:25
mgedminooh, gimp can open it and shows a bunch of pretty images20:25
javispedrothat'd be my guess.20:26
mgedminI'd say gnome/ubuntu bug20:26
javispedrothe N900.ico is set through an autorun.inf file20:26
javispedroisn't it?20:26
timeless_mbpmgedmin: you need a newer less lame version of nautilus or something20:26
timeless_mbpif the images are very shiny, then it's just your lame nautilus20:26
lardmandoes anyone know how to replace dh_quilt_unpatch for our version of dh?20:26
javispedroand when did someone start parsing autorun.inf in nautilus?20:26
timeless_mbpmgedmin: ok... so, as long as it's mostly shiny on osx+windows20:26
timeless_mbpjavispedro: ages ago20:26
javispedrooh, I missed the big flamewar then :(20:27
timeless_mbpyou can search for bugs i've filed on it to see references to the code20:27
timeless_mbpwe had a mini flamewar internally when someone saw my first draft20:27
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timeless_mbpsp3000 + myself were like "if gnome didn't want to do this, then it wouldn't have added support for it, DUH"20:27
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dmj726what's a good rss reader for n900?20:28
* javispedro finds out nautilus will actually run files on cdroms20:28
greenflydoesn't it come with one?20:28
qwerty12timeless_mbp: My battery is low and the N900 is refusing to export MyDocs over USB...20:29
mgedminI try to use google reader mobile version, with great patience and much unhappiness20:29
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greenflyyeah google reader on the n900 isn't exactly there yet20:30
dmj726so it does20:30
timeless_mbp /m20:30
timeless_mbpor /x20:30
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greenflyyou /should/ be able to load the full version, and you can, but the UI pops up the URL bar every time it refreshes20:30
dmj726the rss reader is google reader or something else?20:31
timeless_mbpjavispedro: what is that?20:31
timeless_mbpdmj726: we use liverea or something20:31
* mgedmin didn't even try the bundled rss reader, maybe /he should20:31
* dmj726 has just discovered evolution-rss and is liking it.20:31
timeless_mbpmgedmin: i wouldn't bother :)20:31
mgedminhere goes nothing: sudo apt-get install procps20:31
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mgedminoh, ubuntu...20:32
povbotBug 595027: was not found.20:32
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mgedminright-clicking on the n900 gives me choices: eject, unmount, and safely remove drive20:32
timeless_mbppoints to
povbotBug 154549: was not found.20:32
mgedminWHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE???20:32
timeless_mbpunmount doesn't eject20:32
mgedminpovbot, stupid, that was a gnome bugzilla, not the maemo bugzilla20:33
povbotmgedmin: Error: "stupid," is not a valid command.20:33
timeless_mbpeject unmounts and then tells usb "i stopped using you"20:33
javispedrotimeless: one of those new paintjob features in windows 7, "device stage".20:33
timeless_mbpjavispedro: do you have an n900?20:33
mgedmintimeless_mbp, and safely remove?20:33
javispedrotimeless: no, that's a microsoft mockup20:33
timeless_mbpmgedmin: from a power perspective, unmounting doesn't stop using the service20:33
mgedminthree different options are at least one too much20:33
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timeless_mbpso the device still has 500mA power20:33
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timeless_mbpi'm not actually sure how eject and safely remove differ20:34
timeless_mbpi could be wrong20:34
timeless_mbpyou probably usually want safely remove20:34
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timeless_mbpperhaps my description is for that20:34
timeless_mbpeject should work on the microSD that's in the back20:34
timeless_mbpsuch that if you eject, you should be able to safely remove the back cover20:34
timeless_mbpswap microSDs20:34
timeless_mbprestore the back cover20:35
timeless_mbpand somehow have it see the new microSD card20:35
timeless_mbpsafely remove should *not* do that20:35
timeless_mbpsince it would depower the device and stop using the service20:35
timeless_mbpunmount shouldn't either20:35
timeless_mbpbecause it wouldn't tell the device that it unmounted20:35
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timeless_mbpunmount is basically an OS impl detail that isn't exposed via the USB protocol20:35
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I'm REALLY not impressed by Forum Nokia.20:35
timeless_mbpanyway, that would be the technical explanation of what those things *should* do20:36
timeless_mbpno idea what they actually *do* do20:36
povbotBug 154549: was not found.20:36
ShadowJKI think some windows people once complained that linux "Safely Remove" didn't cut power to the USB device20:36
* timeless_mbp kicks povbot 20:36
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mgedminwell, after doing Eject the icon disappears from the desktop20:36
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: try pulling the usb plug20:36
mgedminafter that when you're trying to safely remove from Computer, you get this nice error20:36
timeless_mbpif the device whines "you didn't safely remove"20:36
mgedminError SYNCHRONIZE CACHE for /dev/sdb: Success sense buffer empty; Error STOP UNIT for /dev/sdb: No such file or directory20:36
* timeless_mbp rotfl20:36
mgedminI was just wondering if it were possible to kick it into "charging-only" mode20:37
mgedminso I could access my files20:37
mgedminfrom the n90020:37
mgedminunplug & replug will work20:37
timeless_mbpyou never want to use charging only20:37
mgedminI don't?20:37
timeless_mbpthat's 100mA20:37
timeless_mbpyou always want PC Suite20:37
mgedminthis is very very interesting20:37
timeless_mbpthat's 500mA and no storage lock20:37
mgedmintell us more20:37
timeless_mbpthe USB protocol is basically this:20:37
mgedminwhy is charging only only 100mA?20:37
timeless_mbpa device walks into a bar20:37
javispedroGeneralAntilles: well, "A caballo regalado.." (according to wiktionary translation "Never look a gift horse in the mouth")20:37
timeless_mbpthe bar says "howdy stranger, here's enough water for you to use so you can indicate what you want to do"20:38
timeless_mbp"until you indicate what you can do, i won't feed you more"20:38
timeless_mbp"if you take more, that's theft"20:38
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, not much of a gift for US people, though, sadly.20:38
timeless_mbp100mA is sufficient to get a device barely up20:38
Mekbut if my n900 is in charge-only mode, it is already seen as an usb network device by my computer, doesn't that indicate that it already uses more than just the base 100mA?20:38
timeless_mbpthe device says "Hey, I speak Mass Storage and <PC Suite>"20:38
mgedminwhat's the battery capacity?20:38
ShadowJK1340-ish as new20:39
timeless_mbpif you use PC Suite, then you're offering Networking20:39
mgedminI could fully charge my device with 4 hours of "charging only"20:39
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Mekit offsers networking in charging-only mode already20:39
konttoriJaffa: have you seen the release video of n900 by peter schneider?20:39
timeless_mbpwe might be cheating actually20:39
timeless_mbpiirc we did :)20:39
mgedminalso, in charging only the PC sees a usb mass storage device with two ejected drives20:39
konttoriLook into 00:3620:39
timeless_mbpmgedmin: iirc you're not supposed to change your USB topography20:40
mgedminI think what PC Suite does is modprobe g_nokia20:40
mgedminwhich enables usb0 networking20:40
timeless_mbpyou can say "I'm a hub with 3 ports"20:40
mgedminmaybe it never goes away when you unplug, which would explain why Mek sees his n900 as a network device20:40
timeless_mbpand then "Ooh, port 1 got another device which is a hub with 5 ports"20:40
qwerty12_N810mgedmin: There's a script somewhere on the device, pcsuite_enable.sh20:40
timeless_mbpbut you can't say "I've changed my mind, I'm no longer a hub with 3 ports, i'm now a hub with 5 ports"20:40
mikkov__Windows updater is simply broken.20:41
javispedrowell, you can simulate being unplugged and  replugged20:41
timeless_mbpmikkov_: file a bug ;-)20:41
javispedrothats what my older palm did20:41
javispedroto switch between mass storage / serial cable mode20:41
mikkov__I'll have to dig the file and use the linux flasher20:41
mgedmininteresting! does /sbin/rmmod g_file_storage20:41
mgedminamong other things20:41
VDVsxseems that some folks already got their hands in the N900, I'm getting a huge amount of spam from votes :P20:41
mikkov__VDVsx: me too!20:42
wazdPeter said something bout 5th desktop? :)20:42
mgedminbtw procps appears to work and doesn't appear to have bricked my device20:42
timeless_mbpwazd: eh?20:42
timeless_mbpanyway... that's the general idea20:42
kynkynokia uk shop still says order not shipped :(20:42
Suurorca"damn, why didn't they release it a few weeks later"20:42
konttoriwazd: umm when ? (about 5th)20:43
timeless_mbpbasically a device plugged into a host isn't allowed to steal power20:43
wazdkonttori: 0:17 mark20:43
wazdmaybe I've missheard something20:43
timeless_mbpuntil the user chooses a usb profile from the device20:43
* lardman patches where appropriate then gets rid20:43
timeless_mbpat which point the host provides it20:43
lardmananyone interested in Fremantle builds of pocketsphinx and flite?20:43
konttorinooo.. there is not 5th screen. Perhaps he referred to dashboard20:44
mgedmintimeless_mbp, is there a way to figure out the power mode in /sys somewhere?20:44
timeless_mbpi think there's some stuff for that20:44
zaheermVDVsx, can they vote only with a device? :)20:44
timeless_mbpbut i don't remember how to20:44
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lcukhe said he needed a 5th soon.   in relation to how full his were20:44
VDVsxzaheerm, no20:44
zaheermVDVsx, :)20:44
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lcuksaying he was running out of space20:44
timeless_mbplcuk: yeah, that's what i thought i heard20:45
timeless_mbphe's not saying there is one20:45
VDVsxzaheerm, downloads are also raising ;)20:45
lcukthats not the same as a product announcement20:45
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timeless_mbp"raising [sic]"20:45
lcukthats just him having it full20:45
ShadowJKQuick, someone blog that he said there will be a fifth. The blogosphere will perpetuate the lies until they become truth20:45
* mgedmin tries to figure out a mapping from "bus 001 device 017" to /sys/bus/usb/devices20:45
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timeless_mbpthat's saying that he as a customer has an unsupported need20:45
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lcukmagic button!20:45
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javispedroand the fifth screen will act like a capacitive screen!20:45
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fralswith multitouch!20:46
frals(and color-fax)20:46
lcukmind you, if anyone was asking for a new feature, he is the more likely than most to get his way :P20:46
timeless_mbpfrals: some people would settle for printing support20:46
javispedrodocstogo had printing support on palmos20:46
* ShadowJK right now would want a working USB hub for his PC20:46
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Suurorcaand i wand the thing to work as a holo-projector :)20:47
konttorilcuk: by the way, welcome to the team20:47
kynkybe cool if the n900 could be a wireless usb hub20:47
SpeedEvilHolo projectors are boring.20:47
ShadowJKa regular projector would be quite awesome... or video goggles20:47
* timeless_mbp gets to the bit about the expensive flashlight for developed countries20:48
lcuk:) konttori indeed.20:48
javispedroSpeedEvil: replicators capable of replicating the n920 with just a sw update20:48
ShadowJKtimeless, nah, there are real flashlight that cost the same20:48
konttorilcuk: I cannot see you yet in internal irc though.20:48
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mgedminShadowJK, probably last longer too20:48
ShadowJKmgedmin, not sure :)20:48
dmj726iphone is an expensive flashlight that lets you pay more for it to be a flashlight.20:49
lcukkonttori, few days, setting up stuff20:49
SpeedEvilOh ...20:49
konttoriok. cool. I added most of the permissions you need earlier today20:49
SpeedEvilCan the flash LEDs be turned on to act like a flashlight?20:49
SpeedEvilThey will presumably need to be PWM'd to keep them in SOA20:49
mgedminlsusb -v shows me the N900 has two configurations self-powered 100mA and bus-powered 500mA20:49
mgedminif I understand the output correctly20:49
lcukyeah i saw those, reading mostly atm20:50
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konttoriSpeedEvil: yes, you can keep it on20:50
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: 500mA is the most a device can legally ask for from a host20:50
timeless_mbp100mA is the minimum a device will get20:51
SpeedEvil^USB2 host20:51
SpeedEvilUSB3 ...20:51
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: i believe in usb120:51
* SpeedEvil stabs the USB3 standard.20:51
javispedrowhen did USB become ugly20:51
timeless_mbpyeah usb3 is ... whatever20:51
SpeedEvilUSB1/2 standard.20:51
timeless_mbpjavispedro: OHCI/UHCI ?20:51
SpeedEviljavispedro: 1.1 isn't too bad.20:51
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javispedroSpeedEvil: agreed20:51
SpeedEviljavispedro: 2 is a whole nother kettle of banannas.20:51
timeless_mbpanyway, the autorun.inf stuff in nautilus dates to a request in 2004 or so20:51
SpeedEviljavispedro: And 3, the inmates have taken over the asylum.20:52
timeless_mbpit landed in early 200820:52
javispedroearly 2008.. so no debian lenny20:52
timeless_mbpjavispedro: basically you need a really modern linux distro20:52
timeless_mbpand you need a non lame graphics thingy too20:52
timeless_mbpit turns out that my enhanced art trips something20:52
dmj7262008 != modern20:52
timeless_mbpwe were going to file a bug20:52
timeless_mbpbut i think we forgot20:52
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javispedroah, for the "shininess"20:52
timeless_mbpwell, the icon is either properly parsed, or not20:53
timeless_mbpso you either get *shiny* or broken20:53
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timeless_mbpif you want the older dull icon, i can leak it20:53
timeless_mbpbut i'd rather not20:53
timeless_mbpi'm proud of my shiny icon20:53
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* GeneralAntilles wants a new image. :(20:53
timeless_mbpit probably makes my one contribution the *most* visible one in the entire program20:53
infobottimeless_mbp meant: it probably makes my one contribution the *most* visible one in the entire product20:53
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: leak the older one so we can laugh at how non-shiny it is20:54
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: iirc it's in the tutorial20:54
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I uninstalled it...20:55
* javispedro would have prefered a "killer n900" icon with blood and gore to match the new ad's 20:55
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to make a new killer penguin widget20:55
GeneralAntillesWith a penguin that wanders around the desktop shooting holes in it with its laser eyes.20:55
mgedminpenguin with accelerometer-controlled eyes20:56
javispedrosomeone could make a penguin doll with lasers instead of eyes20:56
javispedroand give them in the next summit20:56
GeneralAntillespew pew20:56
dmj726Perhaps a gift for Ballmer?20:56
* javispedro is remembered of the "mr. gates, I'll be your host today" giant penguin posters their uni' BOFHs have.20:57
* timeless_mbp pokes mgedmin 's irc client20:58
javispedrobasic grammar... the last frontier.20:58
SpeedEvilpenguin with carebarestare.20:58
* mgedmin back20:59
dmj726I've actually seen a dorm room with no fewer than 7 stuffed penguins.20:59
mgedminI have three or four20:59
dmj726one of which was a giant penguin in a red hat.20:59
javispedroI have a stuffed yoshi instead. I prefer tropical climates.20:59
timeless_mbp /usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/tmp_tutorial_tn_icon.png21:00
qwerty12_N810dmj726: Good for target practice, then, I'm guessing...21:00
timeless_mbpwas the source for the older icon fwiw21:00
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SpeedEvilI have one plastic penguin.21:01
fiferboyRST38h: I just methodically got five anonymous ratings on each of my products (in alphabetical order)21:01
* SpeedEvil wonder WTF is going on21:01
fiferboyIt is weird, the first brought my average down, the second up, third down, fourth up21:02
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, guess it's the ratings from Maemo Select?21:02
fiferboyMaybe it is rounding21:02
javispedrorates from Maemo Select' er... "average" users into the QA?21:02
fiferboyIt happens about once a minute, five times in a row for each product, then moves on to the next one21:02
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ShadowJKAha, now THIS is an expensive flashlight for developed countries, 900 pounds:
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, Downloads or Packages?21:03
lcukdoes danielwilms app have rating in?21:03
lcukperhaps hes testing it21:03
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Downloads21:03
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, pretty sure it's the Maemo Select ratings.21:03
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: IIRC that's not really true - I recall brighter21:04
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javispedroah, downloads. sorry, I read something about testing before :P21:04
fiferboyWhere do you even rate an application on Maemo select?21:04
SpeedEvilShadowJK: kilowatt HID bulbs portable21:04
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, on the listings pages.21:04
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, yes it says so in the article that there are brighter, but this one reaches further because the beam is much more focused21:04
fiferboyAh, only on the non-detailed screen?21:04
GeneralAntillesAlthough the ratings system is super broken.21:04
GeneralAntillesDoesn't respond to clicks most of the time.21:04
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Actually - I think I made a possibly comparable one.21:05
mgedminvideo out supports portrait, cool21:05
lcuk"<GeneralAntilles> Doesn't respond to clicks most of the time."21:05
wazdfiferboy: how's it going? :)21:05
lcukclick click click click21:05
mgedminit never occurred to me to try that21:05
fiferboyDo the select ratings take into account the download ratings?21:05
lcuk"why are my votes goin up n down"21:05
mgedminnot that there are many apps that support portrait21:05
SpeedEvilShadowJK: 1W LED, with a 1.5*1.5mm source but a 60cm*60cm lens. not really important21:05
fiferboywazd: Pretty good.  You?21:05
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I assume so, but dunno.21:06
wazdfiferboy: same as always :)21:06
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fiferboyHmm, m.o downloads says 61 downloads, Maemo select says 52...21:06
ShadowJKIf you settle for just frying scrambled eggs instead of a whole dog, it's as cheap as 300 :)21:06
qwerty12_N810But whole dog is more tasty :(21:07
javispedroqwerty12_N810: there's an app for that21:09
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lardmanI nearly tried dog when I was in korea21:09
lardmandidn;t look too tasty tho, so went for the live squid instead21:09
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ShadowJKSo when you get fed up with your N900/iphones/droids/hd2/whatever, you can just "illuminate" them...:
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fiferboylardman: Was the squid bathed in lard?21:12
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serenityyeah, maemo runs under scratchbox21:13
lardmanfiferboy: no; had it been, there would have been no hesitation and thoughts of eating a pooch21:13
* lardman curses flite debianisation21:14
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lardmanhmm, managed to hack it into building, but any debianites will not be pleased with my methods I imagine21:19
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timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: ping21:23
timeless_mbpdid you write the updated binary thing for me?21:23
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: pong21:23
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I gave you a link to a zenity binary that accepts a --parent-window=XID param21:23
timeless_mbpyeah, but the cpa part?21:24
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timeless_mbpyou gave me an arm binary, right?21:24
timeless_mbpi can't really test that w/o xwininfo which ... hrm21:24
qwerty12_N810Nope, I was waiting for you to finish off the required modifications to your stuff so I could modify the CPA as required21:25
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Yes, it was an ARM binary21:25
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timeless_mbpis x11-utils available anywhere?21:25
GeneralAntillesSDK repo, maybe.21:25
timeless_mbpcould someone check, i'm a bit busy?21:27
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javispedrotimeless: x11-utils 7.4+2-1maemo3 , probably sdk repo21:29
* timeless_mbp busy waits for the catalogs item to open21:29
javispedrosdk tools repo actually21:30
serenitywhich repo must i add inside maemo to get apps?21:30
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timeless_mbpserenity: just enable extras21:30
zaheermwith gtk+/hildon how is best way to have a floating bar of widgets like say in the video player come up with controls on touch?21:31
timeless_mbpis the tools repo "safe" for use on the device?21:31
lcuki use it21:32
javispedrosafe guess is "it's not". but x11-utils package alone shouldn't cause much damage21:32
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timeless_mbpok, your zenity binary work21:36
timeless_mbpbut i can't use that feature w/o knowing that the zenity supports it21:36
timeless_mbpcan you promise me a zenity package version number?21:37
qwerty12_N810I will update it, I promise (I tried y/day but maemo-optify went up the shitter)21:37
timeless_mbpalso, please add it to --help[-something]21:38
qwerty12_N810It should be there; try --help-general21:38
timeless_mbpoh, i didn't see --hildon before21:38
timeless_mbpis that new?21:38
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: No, but it's useless for the most part under Fremantle21:39
timeless_mbp(it doesn't seem to work)21:39
timeless_mbpshould i use it under the assumption that you'll eventually fix it? :)21:39
qwerty12_N810I'd recommend not to use it...21:40
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lardmanflite & pocketsphinx here, let me know if they do or don't work:
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Stskeepsis it possible to call someone over sip without a sip account?21:41
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timeless_mbpyou'd need a sip gateway :)21:42
Stskeepsand i guess google talk doesn't count21:42
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timeless_mbpi'm not quite sure what you mean21:42
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timeless_mbpsip involves giving your device a hint about a sip gateway21:43
timeless_mbpthink of it as a point of presence21:43
timeless_mbpi don't think we run our own sip server21:43
timeless_mbpnote that i really don't speak sip21:43
timeless_mbpso i could be wrong21:43
timeless_mbpbut that's the general idea, i think21:43
timeless_mbpalthough if i understand correctly you end up doing point to point connections after you dial21:44
timeless_mbpbut i'm pretty sure you use the server to deal w/ directory lookups21:44
timeless_mbp"where's the server i can use to talk to so-and-so?"21:44
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timeless_mbpor "hi point-of-presence, i'm over here, tell me when someone calls me"21:45
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suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: you can make direct sip-phone <-> sip-phone calls without any servers or gateways inbetween, if the recieving side is configured in to allow that21:50
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: so i can callto:@ ?21:50
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Ah yes. was what I was thinking of.21:51
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: does our ui support that? :)21:51
suihkulokki1) yes (firewalls and proxies permitting) 2) no clue21:51
suihkulokkiin the original sip plans people would use dns as the directory21:52
suihkulokkibut indeed, these days most people configure their sip phones to make calls through a specified gateway/server/proxy21:53
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* ShadowJK just dials normal numbers and has no clue how to dial sip outside of the "normal" telephony addressspace21:54
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javispedroouch. damn wrong window zorder21:54
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acidjazzany update on the n900 shipping21:55
javispedroacidjazz: http://talk.maemo.org21:55
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acidjazzyea its all crap21:56
acidjazzppl yelling at each other21:56
acidjazzi read the forum 1st always21:56
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kynkymine doesnt say shipping on uk nokia shop, afaict nokia shipping to resellers first like amazon and mpd, who will ship on 16th to have in hands of customers on 17th, but no idea on nokia shop deliveries, although i imagine it will vary from region to region21:57
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SpeedEvilMine also says nothing about shipping on my uk nokia shop order of the 20th last month21:58
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GeneralAntillesStupid Nokia and their stupid NSU.22:01
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GeneralAntillesWindows updater22:03
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realitygapsis there a non NSU way of updating? I remember the flasher was updated to work with n900 but couldnt find a rom anywhere22:04
GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, yes, but they need to release a FIASCO image, first.22:05
SpeedEvilI assume there is a linux flasher?22:05
realitygapsGeneralAntilles: any idea of an ETA for that? or do i have to find a freedom hating machine to use :(22:06
kynkymaemo flasher 3.5 iirc22:06
timeless_mbpwe could probably leak an image :)22:06
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timeless_mbpbut i don't have one22:06
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kynkyimage should be for d/l soon i thought considering shipped status22:06
GeneralAntillesrealitygaps, I really hope the week 42 image NSU seems to be providing isn't the real deal.22:06
GeneralAntillesOtherwise that was a big waste of a deylay.22:07
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Otherwise that was a big waste of a delay.22:07
timeless_mbpkynky: i'm not sure22:07
realitygapsGeneralAntilles: me too but maybe its a later revision?22:07
timeless_mbpafaiu historically we've never offered the original image22:07
dmj726Yeah, I don't even have a Windows box in booting condition right now.22:07
timeless_mbpdmj726: the flasher that people use @nokia is flasher-3.522:07
realitygapsdmj726: me either, already had to install a debian just to get scratchbox working on linux22:07
timeless_mbpwhich runs on windows and linux22:07
* timeless_mbp has never gotten it to work on osx22:07
GeneralAntillesand OS X22:07
timeless_mbpfor me, it doesn't work22:08
qwerty12_N810No one cares about OS X22:08
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* timeless_mbp kicks qwerty12_N810 22:08
dmj726Ubuntu machines I have in plenty22:08
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, works on every machine I've tried so far22:08
realitygapsdmj726: ubuntu is too broken for me for daily use22:08
GeneralAntilles10.5/10.6 PPC/Intel machines.22:08
* timeless_mbp ponders22:08
timeless_mbpi've tried it on two macbooks22:08
timeless_mbpneither liked it22:09
dmj726Karmic is fine for my daily use.22:09
realitygapstimeless_mbp: as root?22:09
timeless_mbprealitygaps: um22:09
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, maybe 10.5/Intel is the machine fail?22:09
timeless_mbpthe error message was from the loader22:09
realitygapsdmj726: karmic dropped my laptop battery life to half for starters...22:09
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: 10.5-intel yes22:09
realitygapsdmj726: and kde on ubuntu is really pretty crappy22:09
dmj726which distro do you use realitygaps?22:09
realitygapsdmj726: generally archlinux22:09
qwerty12_N810s/on ubuntu//22:10
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: timeless_mbp, maybe 10.5/Intel is the magic fail?22:10
dmj726I'm a GNOME user/dev22:10
realitygapssometimes debian (sidux)22:10
realitygapsdmj726: did they fix apt-get install gnome in ubuntu yet? its been broken nearly every release i tried22:10
GeneralAntillesWeek 42, what a waste of time and effort.22:10
dmj726I just get the Ubuntu with GNOME22:11
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: eh?22:11
timeless_mbpjust wait for pr1.122:11
timeless_mbpwhich won't include a browser update :)22:11
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, unfortunately a lot of people are going to buy these things and perhaps never upgrade.22:11
realitygapsdmj726: yes but thats ubuntu-desktop - if you try apt-get install gnome (to grab the full gnome) then it usually says broken packages, even in LTS22:11
realitygapsGeneralAntilles: its a real shame22:11
dmj726never tried it.22:11
realitygapsthey had a chance to really fix so much22:11
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: well, since the important browser upgrade won't come out until even later...22:12
realitygapswill the NSU wipe the big disk?22:12
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: week 42 (freeze) revision 1122:13
Stskeepsas far as i can tell22:13
* realitygaps hopes someone in this channel might leak him a nokia image that is flashable under linux....22:13
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GeneralAntillesWoo, NSU is throwing errors in Finnish.22:16
GeneralAntillesOh, now it's in English22:16
GeneralAntillesWindows 7 is not supported?22:16
fiferboyNSU detects my N900, but says there is no updated firmware available...22:16
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: nice22:16
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: actually22:16
GeneralAntillesNokia: Bringing the Fail22:17
timeless_mbpgiven that the nokia stuff has a broken service name22:17
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realitygapsNokia: open source via closed source platforms22:17
timeless_mbpsuch that the microsoft fire wall says FCUK OFF22:17
kamihi all22:17
* lardman wonders why xchat closes itself whenever he walks away from the pc for more than 10min22:17
timeless_mbpthe nokia app names have a trailing space :)22:17
timeless_mbpthe windows firewall does *not* approve22:17
timeless_mbp(such a thing is typically a sign of an evil app)22:17
Stskeepsa firewall after your head?22:18
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Stskeepser, according22:18
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kynkywindows needs package manager with reposotories22:18
GeneralAntillesI can't even begin to fathom that working on Windows.22:19
realitygapskynky: that would be great then thousands of users would click to add the virus repository in their IE22:19
luke-jrkynky: so do most OS22:19
realitygapskynky: and enter their credit cards after clicking install22:19
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dmj726Imagine a package manager that doesn't need a credit card!22:20
matt__I just updated my N900 from 37 - 42. Now I notice that I can't save files.  Looks like the fs mounted at /home/user/MyDocs has rodir in /etc/fstab and not rw.  Why is this? Is su the only fix? how do I do that?22:20
MuJlardman: faulty powersace options or somethingg?22:20
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suihkulokkirealitygaps: hows that different that the current reality where windows users click to add a virus.exe and give it their cc number ?22:21
sp3000hrm, why is mirror lacking packages in extras proper22:21
sp3000and why does it list python-support twice :)22:21
realitygapssuihkulokki: it would just be more efficient :)22:21
lcuksuihkulokki, where can i download that from? sounds cool22:21
timeless_mbpmatt__: if your file system is corrupted22:21
timeless_mbpwe'll mount it ro22:21
timeless_mbpthere's a repair tool floating around somewhere in the n900 iirc22:21
suihkulokkithe only difference I see that with a repo the virus provider can provide smooth updates if they don't get knocked of the internet22:22
timeless_mbpalternatively you can try to plug it into a windows computer and use checkdisk22:22
* realitygaps busy downloading an XP image to try flash nokias 'open phone' using windows in virtualbox22:22
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timeless_mbpwhere did you guys find the image?22:22
lcukhiya timeless :) settled back in now22:22
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timeless_mbplcuk: mostly22:22
timeless_mbpi have 400-500 unread bugmails22:22
timeless_mbpdown from perhaps 10,000 iirc22:23
timeless_mbpdunno, i didn't pay much attn to that part22:23
sp3000hrm, the openssh combo package isn't happy either (it's missing its parts)22:23
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sp3000so how do you vote packages down from extras proper :}22:34
SpeedEvil - clearly an app needed for maemo.22:35
qwerty12_N810iBoobs first, please, kthxbye22:35
lcukSpeedEvil, arduino22:36
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SpeedEvillcuk: well - yes.22:36
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lcukuse a pair of n900s (or 1 with a mirror to get stereoscopic vision)22:36
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* lcuk was looking at robot parts last night22:37
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SpeedEvillcuk: car scrapyards are good sources.22:37
SpeedEvillcuk: door lock motors, windscreen wipers, ...22:38
lcuki was thinking of starting a bit smaller with something i could host an n900 in22:38
lcuklike the dog, but with more firepower22:38
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SpeedEvillcuk: Clearly you need to mount a flamethrower on your dog.22:38
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lcukthese surprised me22:39
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lcukand my missus would not let me have one tho22:40
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lcukand these are even worse - like cockroaches (v big and fast)
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lcukoh cool i found the really evil looking spider one
matt__Yes, there is a remark for FAT error: invalid cluster chain at ipos 0. MS chckdisk does nothing. Where is this other tool?  I can not umount (not permitted) and can not run fsck in mass storage mode.22:41
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suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: apparently our ui doesn't allowing sip calls without a sip account, and when you have one, all the calls seem to the service provider...22:43
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: cute22:44
lardmanMuJ: dunno, but it's still running this time :)22:44
suihkulokkitimeless_mbp: could just be my incompetence with sip setup and uris22:45
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lardmanhmm, flite -v "hello how are you" makes a small squeak and tells me it's created 1.498125s of audio22:46
timeless_mbplardman: that should be "hello, how are you?"22:46
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timeless_mbpunless you know someone fn:how, mn:are ln:you22:47
lardmantimeless_mbp: you reckon it objects to my grammar? ;)22:47
timeless_mbpits legal to read it considerably faster w/o punctuation :)22:47
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: it's22:47
infobottimeless_mbp meant: it's legal to read it considerably faster w/o punctuation :)22:47
lcuklardman, it would have more problems trying to speak northern22:47
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* qwerty12_N810 had to have his turn at being a pedant ;)22:47
lardmantrue, adding a "," and a "?" made the alleged output .3 s longer22:47
GiantTalkingCowSpeaking of reading faster, I've got a bit of a weird question: do you all read normally word by word or a sentence at a time?22:48
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timeless_mbpGiantTalkingCow: 'you all' and 'normally' and complex sentence structure22:48
lardman5 words at a time, or thereabouts I guess22:48
timeless_mbp= yuck22:48
lcukif the text is correctly formatted you can read much faster22:48
timeless_mbpi read word at a time22:48
lcukfor irc its slower22:48
lardmantoo many northerners ;)22:48
SpeedEvilThere was one insane nutter over on #freenode - possibly still is.22:48
timeless_mbpbut i read fairly quickly22:48
SpeedEvilBlind person.22:48
timeless_mbpi think i have a 5 word buffer22:49
lcukSpeedEvil, thats not insane22:49
SpeedEvilWho had his screenreader going at 600wpm22:49
timeless_mbpthat's fairly typical22:49
qwerty12_N810lardman: so true22:49
timeless_mbpblind users w/ screen readers will tune their readers up to incredibly fast speeds22:49
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timeless_mbpthere was a demo (mostly auditory) a week ago, sunday22:49
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GiantTalkingCowSpeedEvil: Oh yeah, I remember that guy. I tried something like that myself. I was able to follow everything without much trouble, but it sort of lost the nuance. That sort of thing is fine for absorbing technical info, but I just don't see plays or stories working very well.22:50
serenityserenity@mangolassi:~$ /scratchbox/login22:50
serenitybash: /scratchbox/login: Permission denied22:50
timeless_mbpby ibm showing a screenreader-browser thing22:50
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timeless_mbpwhich managed to deal with 'descriptive audio' in conjunction with a video22:50
sp3000oh, oops, user error22:50
timeless_mbpit was based on fennec22:50
matt__timeless_mbp ? where can i find the other fsck?22:50
timeless_mbpmatt__: um22:50
timeless_mbpdunno :)22:50
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lcukthe other one?22:50
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serenitywhy can't i login in scratchbox?22:50
matt__Is there a source repository somewhere?22:51
timeless_mbpserenity: you forgot to log out22:51
timeless_mbpunix permissions are assigned at log in22:51
timeless_mbps/log in/login/ (?)22:51
timeless_mbpso if you login, create a group x, put yourself into it, and try to use the group, you'll find you aren't a member22:51
lcukwhich ides offer ui designer and not so much boilerplate?22:51
lcukor rather, not so much required22:52
lcukfor me to type22:52
timeless_mbplcuk: copy xul files !22:52
lcukyeah, xul is nice ill give you that22:52
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Working on Gecko and such, how do you justify to yourself using Safari?22:53
lardmanwould you believe it, pocketsphinx actually works :)22:53
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: i can't uninstall it22:53
timeless_mbpand i'm in the credits22:53
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qwerty12_N810Terrible excuse :-)22:54
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: do you have webkit handy?22:54
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I use Tear on the N810, but apart from that, no22:54
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N810, he'd never admit it, but it's the native widgets. ;)22:55
lardmanwow, flite also works22:55
GiantTalkingCowLast time I used it, Fennec was dog slow, albeit with a nice UI. I wonder if it's improved any?22:55
timeless_mbpheck, i'm in the khtml credits :)22:55
timeless_mbpGiantTalkingCow: a bit faster22:56
timeless_mbpand support for html5:video22:56
lcuktheres a youtube converter somewhere isnt there?  does native html5+video tag run faster/smoother than hosting in flash22:56
GiantTalkingCowGood to know, I suppose. I do hope it gets up to snuff. I enjoy having an adblocker without having to tweak my hosts file.22:56
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lcukthat reminds me22:57
lcuki need to fix flashblock again22:57
GiantTalkingCowYes there is. I read about it on Reddit yesterday. A quick search over there and you should find it.22:57
lcukits letting flash through on my win box22:57
GeneralAntillesGiantTalkingCow, AdBlock is in Extras.22:57
GeneralAntillesFor Fremantle, anyway.22:57
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lcukin garage22:58
lcukthere is an old project22:58
lcukand its svn is not public22:58
timeless_mbpgrep -i timeless /Library/Documentation/Acknowledgements.rtf |perl -pne 's/.*(<timeless.*?>).*/$1/'22:58
lcuki thought all svn stuff was public22:59
timeless_mbpsee :)22:59
* GeneralAntilles misses iTools.22:59
timeless_mbpwhat's iTools?22:59
* lcuk cannot download files22:59
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: :)22:59
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timeless_mbpthat's kinda cool, no? :)22:59
* lcuk thinks timeless rocks22:59
timeless_mbpi'm in credits in a number of amusing places :)22:59
timeless_mbpi think my favorite is lsof :)22:59
lcuknot for that :P i meant cos you know how to regex :P23:00
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matt__lcuk -- I'm looking for a way run fsck; but I can't without root.  Any idea how to get there?23:00
qwerty12_N810timeless: Yes, but now I can't say you're a traitor to Mozilla :(23:00
lcukmatt__, your fscked23:00
lcuki think23:00
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: that bit is because of work that was taken by apple (really dave hyatt) from mozilla when he started working on webkit23:00
* timeless_mbp frowns23:01
timeless_mbphow the heck do i find lsof credits anyway?23:01
fiferboyHmm, the old NSU detects my N900 but says there is no update23:01
fiferboyThe new NSU doesn't detect my N900...23:01
timeless_mbpi'm failing to google for it23:01
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qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Yeah, Canadians not allowed23:01
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: not funny, historically iranians aren't allowed23:02
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: Ah.  I wondered if it was something like that23:02
timeless_mbpITAR iirc23:02
lardmanhmm, play_wave doesn't seem to work in flite23:02
* lardman goes and watches CSI23:02
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timeless_mbpok, where the heck is lsof actually hosted?23:03
Robot101robot101@tau:/usr/share/doc/lsof$ head -n5 copyright23:03
Robot101This package was debianized by Jim Mintha on23:03
Robot101Sat, 15 May 1999 22:50:27 +0200.23:03
Robot101It was downloaded from
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: :)23:04
timeless_mbpdo you see me in that list?23:04
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qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: Yep :)23:04
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* timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to package this stuff23:06
timeless_mbpis there anything wrong with me first having a package in maemo-extras-devel as non-free23:06
timeless_mbpand then having a later version in free ?23:06
sjgadsbyThe distant screaming you hear is me running from the "Which is better, a widget or a shortcut?" discussion on Talk.23:07
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* lcuk sighs23:07
rangesjgadsby: A swidgecut!23:08
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, nice place, Talk.23:08
qwerty12_N810sjgadsby: You're too calm a moderator. Release the anger within...23:08
Stskeeps <- noone can claim they're getting ignored by nokia now23:09
kalikianatoliosso has no way to tell me if an application is running - that's a pity :-(23:09
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qwerty12_N810They only want him for the free N900s :(23:10
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GeneralAntillessjgadsby, I vote for more pro-active culling.23:10
timeless_mbpkalikianatoli: pidof?23:11
sjgadsbyWith qwerty12_N810's "release your rage" suggestion in mind, the "So who will get it first" poll takes on much more fun possibilities.23:11
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wazd <- how's that?23:14
GeneralAntilleswazd, description should go above authors23:14
GeneralAntillesDownloads should probably be moved under the rating.23:15
GeneralAntillesand I'd just drop the "Description:" heading.23:15
kalikianatolitimeless_mbp, I would have wanted an osso_something function, for when my app is called from a terminal.23:15
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timeless_mbpkalikianatoli: *shrug*23:15
timeless_mbpi'm a hacker23:15
timeless_mbpmy gui is perl+zenity23:15
wazdwhy it *should* go above the authors?23:15
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wazdinstall near "close" button - fail :)23:16
timeless_mbpwazd: maybe put the stars in the left column?23:16
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LiraNunait looks fine imo23:16
LiraNunait's green, it's easy to blindly click23:17
qwerty12_N810wazd: Is this for danielwilms' app?23:17
timeless_mbpare the stars live or an indicator?23:17
GeneralAntilleswazd, because nobody cares who wrote it.23:17
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lardmananyone knows if there are any tricks needed to get decent alsa output on the N900?23:17
timeless_mbpi'd rather downloads and stars be in a column together23:17
timeless_mbpprobably the left one23:17
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wazdtimeless: <- that's why stars are on the right (ignore the bottom bar)23:18
fiferboyI'm famous!23:19
wazdGeneralAntilles: you don't have to scroll for description because of that authors row, so basically it's not harming, and some author promotion is good too btw23:19
wazdfiferboy: :D23:19
GeneralAntilleswazd, depends on how long the description is. :)23:19
qwerty12_N810fiferboy: Grr, it's called Talk now, not "ITT forums" :p23:19
GeneralAntilleswazd, and the key is still putting the more useful information first23:19
GeneralAntillesNOBODY cares who wrote it23:19
RST38hwazd: why not make stars vertical? :)23:19
GeneralAntillesand even fewer will recognize those names.23:19
fiferboyqwerty12_N810: It's nostalgic23:20
GeneralAntillesSo putting USELESS information first is backwards.23:20
wazdRST38h: diagonal, anyone? :D23:20
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fiferboywazd: In a circle23:20
serenitya installation went wrong. How can i reset dpkg?23:20
wazdRST38h: well, it will look like a single coloumn of stars in the list view23:20
lcukRST38h, ewww23:21
lcukwazd, i once had idea to do hot or not and let app pics move left or right in a grid23:21
lcukleft was blue cold23:21
lcukright was hot red23:21
lcukyou just adjust x pos23:21
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, maybe you're right23:22
GeneralAntilleswazd, of course I'm right. :P23:22
wazdGeneralAntilles: but again, it's not that important cause you don't need to scroll23:23
GeneralAntilleswazd, sure it is.23:23
GeneralAntilleswazd, this is only a single case23:23
lcukis the author info available in the offline metadata HAM uses?23:23
GeneralAntillesThere are applications with much longer descriptions.23:23
lcuki know this is the online one23:23
serenitynoone an idea?23:23
GeneralAntillesand your setup breaks sooner in those cases for no reason.23:23
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GeneralAntillesOther than "Because this is how I decided to do it first"23:23
lcukserenity, dunno, but dpkg is the same here as everywhere else23:24
lcukgeneric dox should help23:24
lcukin same way23:24
serenitylcuk: yeah, but how to obtain a console?23:24
lcukgo2shop, give cashier money, she will give you a console23:24
lcukwhat stage is the system stuck in23:25
wazdGeneralAntilles: any examples of 7-row long description? :)23:25
lcukfor you to not just open a console23:25
matt__sudo gainroot : requires RD ... how do I set RD?23:25
lcuklong descriptions can just extend23:25
Stskeepsinstall 'rootsh'23:25
lcukand for the rarity it occurs the layout can adjust surely23:26
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* Stskeeps wonders who decided to put the usb plug where it is.23:26
serenitylcuk: i installed a tool, but installation ended in the middle. After that, no catalogues are available and i can't add any23:26
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lcukso whats all this about a console?23:26
greenflyStskeeps: someone who wanted to give any 3rd-party dock engineers a hard time?23:26
serenitylcuk: i want to repair it23:27
Stskeepsgreenfly: for that purpose it isn't actually in a bad place23:27
greenflyStskeeps: depends on whether you'd want the dock to also access the headphone jack23:27
lcukwhere do you show descriptions23:28
lcukin that layout23:28
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Stskeepsgreenfly: mm.23:28
lcukhow do i tell the media scanner to only extract metadata from the filename of movies and mp3s23:29
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lcukbecause i dont care about the stuff inside23:29
lcukand so it doesnt lockup everytime i drop another few tv episodes on23:29
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lcuksorry, not lockup - slow down23:30
greenflyuses trackerd so if you can tweak it, it would be like you'd tweak trackerd on an ubuntu machine23:30
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lcuki use windows xp :)23:30
lcukwell, until my computer arrives23:30
greenflyI would imagine that you might have to wait until someone provides some configuration interface into it, then23:31
* lcuk nods23:31
lcukits all complex linuxy stuff23:31
lcuki might have a play with the db23:31
lcukits only sqlite23:31
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greenflylcuk: I see some people mentioning that the tracker daemon has a pre-set list of directories it scans23:32
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lcukyeah, but it treats different filetypes differently23:33
greenflyit might be possible to put media you don't want it to scan in a hidden directory, but then you also would have to use the file browser to access it23:33
lcuklike windows has some evil thing for its searing23:33
lcukyeah greenfly, thats kinda not the point23:33
lcuki want it accessible from media player23:33
lcukbut it doesnt need to scan the entire damn file23:33
lcukor whatever it appears to be doing23:34
lcukit warns me its gonna be 10 mins or something23:34
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lcukinstead of a 5 second file list refresh23:34
qwerty12_N810lcuk: I had 23 minutes last time :-)23:34
lcukand for my purposes everything is catalogued in folders anyway23:34
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Ceron^lcuk: hello!23:34
greenflylcuk: if there is a solution, it'll be found in tweaking what trackerd does and doesn't do23:35
lcukhola Ceron^ !23:35
greenflybut not sure how to do that currently23:35
Ceron^lcuk: got anything new under development?23:35
lcukyeah greenfly ill find out one day23:35
lcukalways Ceron^23:35
lcukwell, apart from today23:35
lcukwhen i havent got an sdk23:35
lcuki somehow managed to destroy gtk23:35
lcukbut kept clutter running23:36
lcukso the ui looks "interesting23:36
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lcukgotcha wazd23:36
lcuknow, if omweather had another couple of lines23:36
lcukwould it be the end of the world to show em23:36
lcukand drop the next icon start down a bit23:36
GAN900wazd, there you go. Though I still think the downloads should go near the stars.23:37
* lcuk missaw lol23:37
wazdGAN900: again, any button near close cross = fail :)23:37
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wazdGAN900: especially the most important one23:37
lcukmove cross to bottom left :P23:38
wazdlcuk: what icon?23:38
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lcukits ok you are now showing a detailed view23:38
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zaheermlcuk, the tracker on n900 uses gstreamer to extract the metadata from video and audio files23:38
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lcuki thought you were showing the list with descriptions in23:38
lcukzaheerm, well it could just use the filesystem23:38
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lcuktheres no meta data worth extracting from my 350mb videos23:39
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Ceron^what about23:39
Ceron^google maps!!!23:39
Ceron^for n90023:39
zaheermlcuk, it doesn't read all 350MB of your files :)23:39
Ceron^isnt it available yet :(23:39
lcukit takes 9 minutes to update meta data on 6 new files23:40
lcukit must be doing something drastic23:40
Ceron^qwerty12_N810: that doesnt help me at all23:40
zaheermlcuk, well that is a bug!23:40
Ceron^qwerty12_N810: no gps support23:40
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zaheermlcuk, you should file it23:40
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Ceron^lame :(23:40
qwerty12_N810Ceron^: oh, sorry:
pwnguinCeron^: my assupmtion is that google is leaving it android only23:40
zaheermCeron^, n900 came out today, give google a chance to support it :P23:40
lcuki would if i had a publicly accessible url to share23:40
pwnguinzaheerm: did it?23:40
lcukie an example video23:41
qwerty12_N810Ceron^: Although, Maemo Mapper is being ported to Fremantle23:41
Ceron^zaheerm: well one would think n900 has been in googles hands for sometime now23:41
pwnguinwell ill be damned23:41
timeless_mbpCeron^: you can install geolocation for microb23:41
timeless_mbpit's available as an addon23:41
timeless_mbpi need to poke the google gears people23:41
timeless_mbpwazd: hey23:41
zaheermCeron^, no clue23:41
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timeless_mbpinstead of buttons on the bottom23:41
timeless_mbpcan you use icons23:41
timeless_mbpa bug icon, stars, a word bubble, and a package-plus23:42
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wazdtimeless_mbp: maybe, but I'm too lazy do draw'em now :D23:42
timeless_mbpwazd: add it to your to consider list?23:42
wazdtimeless_mbp: I thought icons can be good for portrait mode23:42
timeless_mbpthe reason to use it for landscape is that icons are fixed width23:42
wazdtimeless_mbp: it's already there :)23:42
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timeless_mbptext varies by locale23:42
timeless_mbpand can easily suck23:42
timeless_mbpthere's a reason we only have 2 columns for buttons in general23:43
wazdtimeless_mbp: yep, I agree, but I really wanted to show basics :)23:43
timeless_mbpicons can suck regionally (nokia manages to do that on windows, very impressive)23:43
timeless_mbpbut generally for your target audience, icons will win23:43
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timeless_mbpwazd: is this a replacement package manager?23:44
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Milo-hmm, will n900 be able to import s60v3 calendar, phonebook and sms's? with bluetooth?23:45
timeless_mbpMilo-: sometimes/usually23:45
wazdtimeless_mbp: not sure if I have that little self-respect to work on package manager for maemo 523:45
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Milo-timeless_mbp sounds fun :P23:46
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timeless_mbpi used pcsuite/pcsync to push my n81/e61i to outlook23:46
timeless_mbpand then used activesync to pull to my n90023:46
Milo-you already have one? :o23:47
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timeless_mbpi've already loaned out 223:47
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timeless_mbpand arranged to loan 2 others23:47
timeless_mbpbut... i work for nokia on the browser...23:47
Milo-ah, I see23:47
Milo-According to a rumour said by someone, Nokia started delivering the phones to the stores today in Finland23:48
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Milo-shall see if I get a notification this week \o/23:48
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wazdMilo-: it's not a rumor23:51
wazdMilo-: it's oficcial :)23:51
Milo-I know, found an article from kauppalehti23:51
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Milo-hmm is N97 and N900 technically the same device, but with different OS?23:52
Milo-okay, they seem very similiar23:52
GAN900wazd, um, button?23:52
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GAN900Downloads the statistic is a button? . . . .23:53
wazdGAN900: what? :)23:53
timeless_mbpiirc n97 is omap223:53
timeless_mbpand n900 is omap323:53
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GAN900timeless_mbp, some Samsung something or othefr ARM1123:55
GAN900Milo-, other than being vaguely the same shape and both phones they really aren't similar in hardware or software.23:55
Milo-well, software is a no-brainer23:56
GAN900Nokia hasn't used an OMAP2 in anything in forever.23:56
Milo-different OS says it all23:56
GAN900Milo-, the N900 is AT LEAST twice as fast.23:56
Milo-sounds like marketing talk23:56
GAN900Significantly faster than that in certain cases.23:57
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Milo-gibber jabber23:57
GAN900Milo-, no, those are hard numbers.23:57
timeless_mbpthe n810 was omap2, right?23:57
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GAN900Milo-, but clearly you're not interested in learning anything so I wont waste my breath.23:57
GAN900timeless_mbp, yes.23:57
* timeless_mbp wonders how short GAN900's forever is23:57
GAN900Well, in the ARM11 timeframe.23:58
Milo-GAN900 I am, but 'AT LEAST twice as fast' is gibberish, it's never true, as far as benchmarking goes23:58
StskeepsMilo-: it is remarkably faster than omap2.23:58
GAN900They moved on to non-TI SoCs really quickly.23:58
timeless_mbpMilo-: comparing processor classes is pretty much impossible23:58
wazdMilo-: it's twice as fast in WORST cases23:58
* cehteh wonders how much faster maemo is in comparsion to android .. the VM there is quite good, but its still a vm23:58
wazdMilo-: like "oh, it was bad day" and so on23:59
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Stskeepscehteh: i multitask 24 windows without slowdown.23:59
cehtehon android?23:59
Stskeepsno, maemo.23:59
cehtehwell i asked about a comparsion :)23:59
Stskeepsand thats not even as intense as other people's attempts23:59
Stskeepsi don't use android. :P23:59
timeless_mbpcehteh: buy a bunch and let us kbow23:59

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