IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-11-10

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javispedro	and have to go, since the headache is back and I don't want another paracetamol dose, see you.	00:02
javispedro	and enjoy the trolls	00:02
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__ibz	hi, are there any significant differences between the regional n900's? e.g n900 US vs n900 uk?	00:08
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ShadowJK	keyboard	00:09
__ibz	cool, seems to be a lot cheaper to purchase from the us..	00:11
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cehteh	you know that the EU has high customs/taxes if they check it?	00:13
GeneralAntilles	__ibz, you wont have a warranty.	00:13
GeneralAntilles	__ibz, most of the EU cost is tax.	00:13
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ShadowJK	not worth it :)	00:14
__ibz	cehteh: i'm hoping to get a friend to purchase and bring it over for me..	00:14
__ibz	ShadowJK: what's not worth it?	00:14
cehteh	mhm why does maemo ship with a really ancient bash?	00:15
greenfly	it's a busybox shell	00:15
greenfly	if you need bash, it's apt-gettable	00:15
qwerty12_N900	Ancient? It doesn't ship with bash at all	00:15
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n000b	sorry if this is an FAQ, but how do i change to armel target on scratchbox? sb-menu gives no output and does not return.	00:16
Shapeshifter	huh...	00:16
* timeless_mbp sighs		00:16
Shapeshifter	I guess there's zsh, isn't it	00:16
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: see my latest bug move :)	00:16
cehteh	greenfly: i meant that bash 2.05	00:16
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timeless_mbp	ShadowJK: the engb and enus keyboards are the same	00:17
timeless_mbp	the difference is in the charger	00:17
timeless_mbp	and the preloaded maps	00:17
range	There's no tax on mobile phones in the EU, but yes, you still have to pay taxes.	00:17
ShadowJK	range, VAT	00:17
timeless_mbp	the us version will give you more mb of preloaded maps for your dollar :)	00:17
greenfly	cehteh: some feature in newer versions of bash you are missing?	00:17
cehteh	n000b: i had that too .. some python bug	00:17
range	ShadowJK: I think I just said that :)	00:17
cehteh	greenfly: yes at least for the devel env	00:18
n000b	cehteh: so is there some other means?	00:18
range	ShadowJK: Erm.	00:18
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ShadowJK	right	00:18
range	There is no customs	00:18
* timeless_mbp sighs		00:18
range	But you have to pay taxes :)	00:18
timeless_mbp	who cares about customs?	00:18
qwerty12_N900	timeless: Until you use Ovi Maps and realise that the spending the dollars was not worth it...	00:18
cehteh	n000b: it suddenly started working, dunno why .. and now i scraped the old beta2 sdk and install the final one	00:18
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N900: but you're saving bandwidth	00:19
timeless_mbp	and those bits are expensive :)	00:19
timeless_mbp	so you save a lot of money just testing Ovi Maps :)	00:19
ShadowJK	if a friend or the mail system brings it over, chances are you'll avoid customs. If DHL, UPS, Fedex or similar brings it over, they'll almost certainly take it via customs :P	00:19
n000b	cehteh: hmm... i'm quite sure i've installed the final one too	00:19
cehteh	greenfly: need [[ x=~y ]] regex matching .. working around with 'expr' is bit pita (ok will do)	00:19
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cehteh	n000b: well maybe same bug then	00:19
greenfly	cehteh: ahhh	00:19
qwerty12_N900	timeless: lol... sums it up :p	00:20
cehteh	i am still installing	00:20
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, no, link?	00:21
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timeless_mbp	bug (bug 5995)	00:22
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5995 United States should be United States of America	00:22
Shapeshifter	so, ovi maps is still rubbish?	00:22
timeless_mbp	err	00:22
timeless_mbp	(bug 6099)	00:22
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6099 Incremental search function is case sensitive for "select objects" dialogue in html form elements like drop-down menus	00:22
timeless_mbp	sorry	00:22
timeless_mbp	wow, you've got a bot here	00:22
timeless_mbp	why?	00:22
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GeneralAntilles	Guess mgedmin added a Bugzilla module to povbot.	00:23
GeneralAntilles	We were going to have one last year, but jott dropped off the map before it was deployed.	00:23
timeless_mbp	too helpful	00:23
timeless_mbp	kick it out... progress is bad	00:23
timeless_mbp	people might actually learn to use bugzilla	00:23
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	00:24
* GeneralAntilles is just glad he can always be lazy and let Andre deal with it. ;)		00:24
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cehteh	... 2764B/s 4h24m12s	00:25
cehteh	uhm is the server little slow toady?	00:25
GeneralAntilles	cehteh, http://scratchbox.org? ;)	00:25
cehteh	repository.maemo.org	00:25
cehteh	well i have some hopes that my squid kicks in for most packages	00:26
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, nice. . . .	00:27
cehteh	note: dont get a time-based internet tarif for the n900	00:27
Shapeshifter	mhh, I don't really get why there's no google maps, voiced guided routing yet	00:27
GeneralAntilles	cehteh, yeah, servers should be coming this month or next.	00:27
Shapeshifter	I mean, are there some specific problems with it?	00:27
Shapeshifter	If not, why isn't it there yet? If I finally get my n900 I'll write something for that if someone else doesn't...	00:28
ShadowJK	uh, ask google?	00:28
Shapeshifter	I mean, there's not that much to it. the google maps provide maps and routing, and all you need it some text-to-speech thing to tell you what to do and the trickiest bit is to constantly check for the current GPS position and trigger the direction commands accordingly	00:28
Shapeshifter	no, I mean, with the existing google API	00:29
cehteh	speech to text would be more interesting actually	00:29
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: and people wonder why i love our widgets...	00:29
timeless_mbp	or why i don't want to hildonize the browser	00:29
timeless_mbp	i could:	00:29
timeless_mbp	A. hildonize the browser	00:29
Shapeshifter	don't really care about that	00:29
timeless_mbp	B. write what people actually need into upstream	00:29
timeless_mbp	with B, someone can later write CSS to fix up the theming	00:29
cehteh	is emacs packaged for maemo5 already? :)	00:30
timeless_mbp	fixing Hildon widgets to not suck is painful	00:30
cehteh	and lua	00:30
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timeless_mbp	is emacs optified?	00:30
cehteh	as in installing to /opt ? should be doable	00:30
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greenfly	cehteh: I see an emacs package available, and I've installed and used vim	00:30
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cehteh	greenfly: i seen one for maemo4	00:31
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GeneralAntilles	cehteh, the Maemo 4 one will work fine, aside from not being optified.	00:31
greenfly	cehteh: I'm not sure off-hand which repo it's in	00:31
GeneralAntilles	(Well, should)	00:31
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greenfly	I have testing and devel enabled though	00:32
cehteh	i will too	00:32
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, conceptually I'm a fan of native stuff.	00:32
timeless_mbp	oh sure	00:32
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GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, too bad Hildon can't seem to get its act together.	00:32
timeless_mbp	i don't mind the concept	00:32
timeless_mbp	i just have the experience to know it isn't worth it	00:32
cehteh	and lua is something i can install by myself, would be just nice if its officially (community) supported	00:32
GeneralAntilles	Native widgets are a large part of why I've never used Firefox OS X.	00:32
timeless_mbp	cehteh: i'm not sure what that means	00:33
timeless_mbp	things that go into repositories aren't community supported	00:33
GeneralAntilles	s/OS X/on OS X/	00:33
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Native widgets are a large part of why I've never used Firefox on OS X.	00:33
timeless_mbp	they're at best community hosted	00:33
timeless_mbp	the person who "supports" it is the packager	00:33
cehteh	ah	00:33
timeless_mbp	because he's the person who butchers it	00:33
cehteh	i didnt figured this out yet	00:33
timeless_mbp	it's unlikely to matter significantly	00:33
timeless_mbp	but do keep it in mind	00:33
timeless_mbp	if i post a package into extras-devel	00:34
timeless_mbp	the rest of the community might hopefully use it	00:34
timeless_mbp	but it's only my responsibility to support it (if that), not theirs	00:34
cehteh	yes i didnt cared yet how the community is organized, a friend of me has a n800 since years but i never looked in the details	00:34
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timeless_mbp	sorry, i'm the resident linguist	00:35
timeless_mbp	so, my packages include translations	00:35
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timeless_mbp	they're my responsibility :)	00:35
* cehteh wonders how much memory one can free on the device by purging unused languages		00:36
cehteh	well prolly few hundred MB at best	00:36
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cehteh	btw: http://code.google.com/p/compcache/ anyone tried that yet?	00:37
qwerty12_N900	cehteh: ~16MB on a stock install (I have localepurge installed on this N900)	00:37
cehteh	i have compcache on my laptop running, works well	00:37
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N900: is that du output or df?	00:38
timeless_mbp	because the file system does compression	00:38
cehteh	stock install has no much texts, but plenty'o'extra apps will have	00:38
qwerty12_N900	timeless: the output reported by localepurge itself; no idea how it calculates the space	00:39
timeless_mbp	heh	00:39
cehteh	well and that keeps the translation i18n packages still installed it purges only generated locales or?	00:40
qwerty12_N900	timeless: That reminds me... I had to update its nopurge file thanks to your translations :o	00:40
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timeless_mbp	lol	00:40
timeless_mbp	sorry	00:40
timeless_mbp	that'd suck	00:40
timeless_mbp	you have ZERO localizations, because they've all been purged :)	00:41
timeless_mbp	or something	00:41
timeless_mbp	am i supposed to modify that thing as i install?	00:41
qwerty12_N900	All your strings seem to be there, but I don't dare to try and revert to the stock strings	00:42
timeless_mbp	heh	00:42
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timeless_mbp	i have 1 change i know that's pending	00:42
timeless_mbp	and i need to fix the profile menu	00:42
timeless_mbp	since it turns out (surprise, surprise!) that it uses fixed width buttons	00:42
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BBNS	hi, anyone possibly knows how to reprogram the camera key on N900? o.o	00:43
cehteh	btw i had xephyr in mouse-grab mode ... how to leave that (where is any xephyr doc?)	00:45
qwerty12_N900	Looked at its title by any chance? =)	00:45
timeless_mbp	BBNS: there's some stuff in gconf	00:46
timeless_mbp	not sure if it's still used	00:46
timeless_mbp	iirc it's stale	00:46
RST38h	BBNS: One word: XAtoms	00:47
qwerty12_N900	BBNS: DBus signals get emitted on its pressing. My guess that there's a process, somewhere, listening to them and once you find that process, it wouldn't be hard to listen to them yourself	00:47
RST38h	a moment	00:47
BBNS	well, I know I could get the signal of camera key 'half' pressed.	00:47
BBNS	however, i wanna block the camera apps being launched.	00:47
BBNS	since i wanna use the key for other applications.	00:48
timeless_mbp	you might want to talk to mce and ask it nicely :)	00:48
timeless_mbp	(iirc mce isn't documented)	00:48
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BBNS	o.o who's the contact?	00:48
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timeless_mbp	nah, try RST38h 's approach	00:49
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BBNS	gosh ... wanna kill the IT here.	00:49
BBNS	timeless_mbp: umm o.o sorry got disconnected.	00:50
timeless_mbp	nah, try RST38h 's approach	00:50
RST38h	Conboy author seems to have managed using the camera button	00:50
timeless_mbp	fwiw, there are channel logs	00:50
BBNS	RST38h: oh o.o via XAtom?	00:50
BBNS	timeless_mbp: the channel log is realtime?	00:51
RST38h	yes, I have seen the code somewhere but cannot locate it with google	00:51
RST38h	still searching	00:51
timeless_mbp	it's in the topic, try it?	00:51
qwerty12_N900	RST38h: He has? For what? Only thing I know that does it is load-applet, and that's for the half-pressed state via DBus	00:51
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BBNS	timeless_mbp: yep! it's real-time thanks!	00:52
BBNS	qwerty12_N900: that's what i referenced from too. only half-pressed.	00:52
BBNS	qwerty12_N900: but if i full pressed the button, still trigger the camera app.	00:53
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RST38h	qwerty: check out the fbreader volume buttons plugin in extras	00:54
qwerty12_N900	That just adds options to FBReader's toolbar	00:55
RST38h	oh	00:56
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greenfly	it would be cool if it overrode the volume keys though :)	00:58
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RST38h	http://gizmodo.com/5400764/the-android-iphone (check out the obligatory Huge Blue LED)	00:59
RST38h	"...According to arrest records, Dunn denied that the items were his and told officers that they may belong to Jesus, who was setting him up."	01:00
greenfly	RST38h: heh, it's fun watching his thumb slide 5x on the screen before the desktop changes	01:01
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RST38h	at some point it looked stuck, so he turned it around "to show the finish"	01:02
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Dantonic	Hey what's the standard sound player under diablo? I need to call it from xchat to make it play sounds	01:11
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n000b	do you know if i can use my host computer's webcam as the v4l2src in scratchbox?	01:12
n000b	(in a gst-launch pipeline)	01:13
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Dantonic	or is there another command line sound player that I can dl? I think that's how I fixed it before... I just reflashed and forgot to check my settings for that :(	01:16
Dantonic	can't remember how I did it... :(	01:16
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sp3000	timeless_mbp: trick question: how do you know a user has typed a capital letter?	01:18
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Dantonic	is ogg a sound player?	01:18
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kalikianafk	the "ogg" package just installs a fancy icon and a codec iirc	01:20
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timeless_mbp	sp3000: not interested :)	01:20
timeless_mbp	i only care about the values in the input field	01:20
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Dantonic	sox! that's what it was	01:20
Dantonic	sox is a sound player right?	01:20
timeless_mbp	if the user ends up with "Un" in the input field	01:20
timeless_mbp	then that's mixed case	01:20
sp3000	they probably typed un	01:21
* timeless_mbp nods		01:21
sp3000	and they'd have a hard time not getting Un	01:21
sp3000	so triggering on that is ouch	01:21
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webustany	hi there	01:21
sp3000	(hard time as in grumble, not impossible, of course)	01:21
Dantonic	now how do I get sox on the N800 cant remember how I did that :P	01:22
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webustany	I think it's a common question, but I have a gtk app here and I'd like it to be more finger friendly. I browsed the manual, the porting guide, but didn't find something relevant.	01:22
webustany	Specifically I'd like thumb friendly scrollbars and buttons	01:22
timeless_mbp	sp3000: i could only trigger on case for characters other than the first	01:22
timeless_mbp	stupid special case, but..	01:22
webustany	I'm using MaemoWindow, but that doesn't cgnge anything	01:22
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webustany	*change	01:23
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Dantonic	how do I install sox on my N800?	01:27
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Dantonic	rofl	01:30
Dantonic	I'm an idiot... forgot I posted the solution back in February hahaha	01:30
Dantonic	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26896&highlight=install+sox	01:30
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Dantonic	Awesome it works!	01:33
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Dantonic	thanks johnxx !	01:33
Dantonic	for something that you helped me with 8 months ago!	01:34
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lardman	hmm, when comparing images, would I be best off creating a hash and saving that for later comparison?	01:41
lardman	if so, what method would people recommend?	01:41
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cehteh	lardman: what kind of image?	01:50
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lardman	cehteh: an avatar	01:54
lardman	so reasonably small	01:54
lardman	probably in the form of a pixbuf	01:54
cehteh	well hashes work only for exact match	01:54
lardman	yes, and that is what I'm looking for	01:54
lardman	to see if someone's avatar has changed	01:55
cehteh	no compression artifiacts and nothing else	01:55
lardman	nope, should be just the same	01:55
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lardman	so are there some standard hash commands available	01:58
lardman	something in glib for example?	01:59
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* pupnik looks at lardman like a pimp on a scouting mission		02:00
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lardman	hmm, seems not, will save that one for tomorrow	02:01
* lardman reminds pupnik that he's talking about a string of chars, not weed		02:03
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lardman	night all	02:03
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Robot101	anyone get bluemaemo working?	03:08
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DocScrutinizer	lardman\|gone: MD5?	03:27
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n000b	I've been trying to compile OpenCV on scratchbox. The X86 target compiled successfully :D	04:30
n000b	but i'm having trouble with ARMEL	04:30
n000b	I get an error saying that the python2.3 lib (lpython2.3) can't be found.	04:31
n000b	Indeed, I can't find it.	04:31
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n000b	Does anyone know how I can install lpython2.3 on armel?	04:31
n000b	(I've tried installing python 2.5, but the configure script ignores it in favour of scratchbox's 2.3)	04:32
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n000b	...compiling --without-python for the time being...	04:42
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n000b	would it be advisable for me in future to completely replace the python 2.3 in scratchbox, since it will confuse many ./configure scripts?	04:55
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pupnik	www.anal0g.org/magic_silver_box/WHAT_ARE_YOU_DOING.mp3	05:39
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n1c0	hi	05:50
n1c0	bundle wifi wizard seems limited on n810	05:50
n1c0	i can only enter wpa alphanum	05:50
n1c0	special chars are impossible to enter in messagebox	05:50
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pupnik	bungle	06:05
pupnik	mr bungle	06:06
cleary	squeeze me macaroni	06:06
cleary	slop my face with that bologna...	06:07
* cleary hums		06:07
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pwnguin	is this an appropriate place to whine about the heisenburg uncertainty of the n900 release date?	06:12
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microlith	not really	06:12
dmj726	it's been whined about to death really	06:13
pwnguin	well lemme just ask; does anyone believe newegg's ship date is accurate?	06:13
microlith	you can post in the 2000+ post thread on the forums though, where you'll disappear into a sea of dumb if you like	06:13
pwnguin	heh	06:14
dmj726	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33313&goto=newpost	06:14
* microlith is preordered with nokia and biding his time		06:14
pwnguin	hmm. amazon has it for like 100 less than nokia's price =/	06:14
microlith	they didn't when I placed my preorder	06:15
pwnguin	wonder if you can cancel a preorder	06:15
microlith	you can, but I'm in no hurry	06:15
pwnguin	onward then	06:16
pwnguin	how hard would it be to make an app that sorted pictures based on distance from your location?	06:17
dmj726	I suspect not hard	06:17
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pwnguin	im thinking of doing something like this: http://www.justoneclubcard.com/	06:18
dmj726	pwnguin: You should make one!	06:18
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pwnguin	dmj726: i'm wondering if the album stuff doesn't already have everything i need	06:18
dmj726	perhaps you can add the distance feature to it?	06:19
pwnguin	perhaps	06:19
pwnguin	i dont have any hardware atm	06:19
dmj726	Neither do I.	06:19
pwnguin	all ive got is a lackluster virtualbox image for mer	06:19
dmj726	I'm just making mockups of a video editor gui	06:19
pwnguin	hah	06:20
dmj726	I have a scratchbox image of fremantle	06:20
* pwnguin still hasn't learned the codenames		06:20
dmj726	http://imagebin.org/71044	06:20
dmj726	maemo 5 /a virtual n900	06:20
pwnguin	i thought scratchbox was a toolchain	06:20
dmj726	I'm running maemo 5 somehow	06:21
dmj726	it's slow though	06:21
pwnguin	honestly, i think the problem with a simple album approach is multiple franchise locations	06:22
pwnguin	theres more than one best buy in the area, for example	06:22
pwnguin	what you really want is to identify the store you're in, and show a barcode for it	06:22
dmj726	perhaps a time + location = event filter?	06:23
pwnguin	perhaps make a location DB	06:24
n000b	This guy didn't get a reply to his post on the forum: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32646&highlight=python	06:24
n000b	I'm having the same problem. Does have any suggestions?	06:24
pwnguin	1) you link against python	06:25
pwnguin	2) you link against python2.3?	06:25
n000b	i'm trying to link against any python, but the configure script for the package i'm trying to install only finds the scratchbox python, which doesn't have the libpython installed	06:27
n000b	(and i can't find python2.3-dev package anywhere)	06:27
pwnguin	does maemo even have 2.3?	06:28
pwnguin	ubuntu has like 2.5 and 2.6	06:28
luke-jr	I would hope so.	06:28
n000b	2.3 is in /scratchbox/tools/bin	06:29
n000b	I have 2.5 installed in /usr/bin	06:29
n000b	(that is, /usr/bin of the chrooted environment)	06:29
luke-jr	I have 2.6 on my N810, but it's not Maemo :p	06:29
dmj726	I have a theory about camera phones. They were kinda pointless for a long time. I think the reason is that they needed to take quality pictures and transfer easily to one's PC.	06:31
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luke-jr	that always seemed obvious to me.	06:32
luke-jr	seriously, VGA res is useless	06:32
luke-jr	especially for stills	06:32
dmj726	yeah, those are the two reasons I've rarely used my camera phone	06:32
luke-jr	not to mention the shortage of space on the phone	06:32
luke-jr	and impracticality of putting things back once downloaded	06:33
dmj726	They were only useful in rare occasions, and they were more or less stuck on the phone	06:33
dmj726	I don't take pictures for exclusive use on the phone.	06:33
dmj726	and I don't want to spend dozens of dollars to stick them on another device.	06:34
pwnguin	disagree	06:34
dmj726	Of course both problems have been solved by now.	06:34
pwnguin	camera phones were invented for the same reason all technology is invented	06:34
pwnguin	pr0n	06:34
luke-jr	-.-	06:34
luke-jr	in that case, let's burn all technology	06:35
microlith	you'll burn first, I assure you :)	06:35
dmj726	the wheel was invented for pr0n?	06:35
pwnguin	yes. why do you think there's a hole in the middle?	06:35
luke-jr	..............	06:36
dmj726	In the words of M Night. Shamylan: "What a twist!"	06:36
dmj726	at any rate, theres little point to a blurry, low res pic.	06:36
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dmj726	new video editing mockup: http://imagebin.org/71163	07:56
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sarower	good morning all	08:31
sarower	Is it possible to take the camera on a dialog	08:32
sarower	any body? any idea?	08:32
dmj726	what do you mean?	08:32
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Stskeeps	the shipping delays thread remind me of an asylum	09:40
Corsac	expansys still says “4 days to go”	09:41
Stskeeps	and i really hope there are constructive and contributing people within that flood of new people..	09:41
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timeless_mbp	it's snowing...	09:45
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thux	morning	10:03
thux	is here lot of H1N1 patients? much smaller channel where I'm is one case for sure (tested)	10:05
Stskeeps	prolly had some after the summit	10:05
thux	was he really sick?	10:06
Stskeeps	well didnt die..	10:06
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thux	good	10:07
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thux	they say here that it hits harder after 1970 born people who fortunately are usually better condition than before epoch bornt	10:08
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Stskeeps	virus determines if it works based on your unix timestamp?	10:10
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thux	Stskeeps: hehe i just remembered that unix epoch is 1.1.1970 isn't it?	10:14
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thux	and doctors claim that persons who haven't live in sixties doens't have some resitance against virus	10:15
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cosmo_	what was the screenshot key combo on fremantle?	10:34
timeless_mbp	ctrl-shift-p	10:35
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Stskeeps	http://www.reuters.com/article/technologySector/idUSHEL00939820091110	10:36
johnx	keen!	10:37
cosmo_	timeless_mbp: thanks	10:37
Stskeeps	maybe the delay thread will finally get sane	10:38
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: so much for not shipping the same week as a recall	10:39
timeless_mbp	fwiw, we were expecting to ship this week	10:39
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: well, it's a new day	10:39
timeless_mbp	the software had met final approval sometime last week	10:39
Stskeeps	so headlines are scrubbed of recall	10:39
timeless_mbp	i suppose i should be glad that we have some spine/backbone	10:39
johnx	mmm...really looking forward to a retail flashable image	10:40
Stskeeps	i'm looking forward to some of the more irritating bugs being fixed :P	10:40
dmj726	what's this about a recall?	10:40
Stskeeps	dmj726: some chargers	10:41
dmj726	for n900?	10:41
Stskeeps	anah	10:41
Stskeeps	nah	10:41
johnx	dmj726, if your charger has exposed metal and it sparking, you need to not touch it with your tongue	10:41
dmj726	oh, good	10:41
dmj726	...What chargers are these?	10:41
Stskeeps	nokia.com/press	10:41
dmj726	glad it's nothing that affects n900 users	10:42
Stskeeps	johnx: nothing on tablets-dev yet :P	10:42
johnx	I'll et an auto refresh	10:43
mgedmin	yay shipping	10:43
dmj726	I'm really happy that it's shipping	10:43
johnx	congrats Nokia people!	10:43
Stskeeps	until you get it in your hands and realize they did a last minute casing change to Hello Kitty themed casing.	10:44
* johnx has a high tolerance level to hello kitty		10:44
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dmj726	Wait until you see the Darth Vader/Master Chef/Hello Kitty mashup casing	10:45
dmj726	made of falsehood cake.	10:45
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johnx	actually, I want that fake wood paneling that was on 80s station wagons :D	10:46
mgedmin	hello ctulthu	10:46
johnx	mgedmin, I'd probably pay money for that ...	10:46
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* frals dislikes the n95 browser dying after a few refreshs on talk :(		11:02
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johnx	it's to limit the amount of insanity you're exposed to	11:02
frals	Hehe, guess so	11:04
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timeless_mbp	heh	11:06
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Stskeeps	wtf, talk.* shows me the n900 shipping thread as double	11:16
cehteh	maybe it ships double now :P	11:16
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johnx	I'd settle for keeping mine twice as long :>	11:17
frals	Stskeeps: twice the insanity, half the fun	11:17
johnx	I have http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php on auto-refresh	11:18
johnx	no love yet	11:18
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stevem	Lo, does anyone know if the N900 a) has a tilt sensor and b) rotates the screen when tilted?	11:22
stevem	and any videos of it doing this? been looking high and low and can't find any	11:22
Stskeeps	yes it has a accelerometer	11:22
stevem	I know it goes portrait when a call comes in, but other than this - I've never seen it in portrait mode	11:22
Stskeeps	it is because many apps are not portrait	11:23
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Stskeeps	so they don't switch	11:23
Myrtti	has anyone ported shell-fm to maemo5 yet?	11:24
johnx	stevem, if you find a video of the picture viewer, that goes portrait on rotate	11:25
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johnx	and the actual sensing part of it feels pretty solid	11:25
stevem	hmm ok, at least I know there _is_ a limitation now, and I'm not just going crazy	11:25
johnx	it hasn't gone nuts on me yet	11:25
stevem	it's not something I'm overly concerned about, I expect that and MMS will get improved in later firmware?	11:25
johnx	yup	11:26
stevem	cool	11:26
johnx	Nokia says portrait mode browsing before 2010	11:26
stevem	been looking around at what contract deals deals in the UK there are for getting it free	11:26
johnx	and a lot of 3rd party apps have a portrait mode	11:26
johnx	xournal looks real nice in portrait :)	11:26
stevem	was looking to get a N800/810 for years and was holding off for the N830 WiMax (never happened lol)	11:26
Stskeeps	i kinda want a rotation button instead	11:26
stevem	I suppose a N900 will do	11:26
frals	No official word on mms thou	11:26
johnx	Stskeeps, I want more buttons, but that's just me ...	11:27
johnx	I'd also like to bind the shutter to something when the lens cover is closed ...	11:27
stevem	anyone know any good N900 on contract deals? UK?	11:27
frals	Its being worked on by people stupid enough to read wap specifications thou	11:28
stevem	I've seen the mobilephonesdirect.co.uk ones on voda... but the company looks dodgy	11:28
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suihkulokki	10:38 < Stskeeps> maybe the delay thread will finally get sane	11:28
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Stskeeps	suihkulokki: well, okay, maybe a bit optimistic.	11:29
Stskeeps	:P	11:29
suihkulokki	naah, now people will go completly nuts when some people get their shiny toys why they don't have theirs in their hands yet	11:29
L0cutus	re	11:29
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SpeedEvil	stevem: why dodgy?	11:41
stevem	SpeedEvil, well for a company selling phones, they never answer them	11:42
stevem	the e-mails take days to respond and the livechat is shite	11:42
SpeedEvil	they're quite a large company IIRC	11:42
vesa	whoever coded hermes: much <3 to you!	11:42
AD-N770	good morning from Barcelona	11:43
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SpeedEvil	Only contract news other than that is vodafone ireland have said they will carry it.	11:43
stevem	SpeedEvil, apparently run the Nokia Retail stores... but I'm not sure if it's all of them (bar london) or not	11:43
AD-N770	I'm planning attend the maemo long weekend in Barcelona	11:43
stevem	No network in the UK has said they'll carry it	11:43
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stevem	Just web sites that offset the price from the commission	11:43
SpeedEvil	yes, just ireland.	11:43
AD-N770	but I'm not sure how to register me, have I just add me in the wiki ?	11:44
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VDVsx	lcuk, http://events.linkedin.com/Maemo-Barcelona-Long-Weekend/pub/163544 ;)	11:49
VDVsx	AD-N770, yes	11:49
VDVsx	AD-N770, and please introduce yourself here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=370695#post370695	11:49
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AD-N770	VDVsx: what I need to put requested or planned ?	11:50
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VDVsx	AD-N770, are you interested in the long-weekend event (conferences and training ) or in the UX met code event (hackfest) ?	11:51
AD-N770	hackfest	11:51
VDVsx	AD-N770, hackfest is by invitation only, so you should put "requested"	11:52
AD-N770	ok	11:52
AD-N770	what's the procedure to be invited?	11:52
VDVsx	AD-N770, and I gave you the wrong thread in this case, 1 sec	11:52
lcuk	VDVsx, arent you down as going? i thought you were like first on the list	11:52
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VDVsx	lcuk, don't have money enough money atm :(, without a invite probably can't go :(	11:53
* VDVsx blames google and Nokia		11:54
VDVsx	AD-N770, instructions here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33719	11:54
VDVsx	AD-N770, and introduce yourself in that thread ^	11:55
AD-N770	ok, trying to register me in talk but it says that I'm a bot ;)	11:55
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VDVsx	AD-N770, wrong captcha ?	11:56
AD-N770	no, I've tried 3 times	11:57
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AD-N770	same again	11:58
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VDVsx	AD-N770, any luck ?	12:07
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VDVsx	finally : http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-begins-shipping/ :P	12:20
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w00t	I'm tempted to say old news, but I'd have to run	12:20
w00t	;p	12:20
VDVsx	w00t, true, at least vague news :P	12:21
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w00t	hehe	12:22
SpeedEvil	10208380 Nokia N900 This order has not shipped. 0 0	12:24
SpeedEvil	:/	12:24
mgedmin	the n900 is shipping probably deserves to be in /topic	12:24
mgedmin	still no n900 in the forum nokia eStore	12:25
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Myrtti	I wonder what does "new sim card" mean in this context	12:25
SpeedEvil	Myrtti: I suspect it's a problem with the SIM software	12:26
Myrtti	SpeedEvil: I don't really care about what the problem is, I want to know how do I know which SIM card I have...	12:27
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w00t	SpeedEvil: probably going from factory to distributors first, so it'll probably take a few more days to ship to individual people - though this is just a guess of mine	12:27
Myrtti	problem is irrelevant, what is relevant if I'd be affected	12:27
VDVsx	Myrtti, it's new ? :)	12:27
Myrtti	VDVsx: "new" - In my books a sim card 9 months old is quite new still	12:27
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Myrtti	need a definition of "new"	12:28
Stskeeps	wazd o/	12:28
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wazd	oh, Day S :D	12:28
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wazd	grats everyone :)	12:28
frals	bug 5315	12:28
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5315 3 Mobile SIM card rejected	12:28
VDVsx	Myrtti, only affects the cards from the "3" network, afaik	12:28
Myrtti	VDVsx: and I have one... I'm not totally dim ;-)	12:29
VDVsx	Myrtti, hehe	12:29
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hrw	hi	12:29
wazd	and still no answer from NDDP, to any of my inboxes	12:32
wazd	I think I'm ignored	12:32
VDVsx	wazd, what's NDDP ?	12:32
wazd	VDVsx: nokia developer device program :)	12:33
mgedmin	sounded like the name of a political party	12:33
VDVsx	yeah ;)	12:33
mgedmin	the national democratic democrat party?	12:34
mgedmin	"a n900 for every voter!"	12:34
wazd	russia is in the list that will receive shipping for sale	12:34
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wazd	but you can't get it thru forum.nokia :(	12:34
wazd	mgedmin: the n900 developer democratic party :D	12:35
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Stskeeps	who says it has to be democratic	12:36
Stskeeps	despotic ;p	12:36
SpeedEvil	Myrtti: Openmoko also had a problem with 3 SIMs, and required a phone firmware update	12:36
mgedmin	I can imagine: it's not trivial to handle three SIM cards in one slot	12:36
wazd	Stskeeps: well, extras-testing approval is rather democratic move :D	12:37
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SpeedEvil	mgedmin: unfortuantely.	12:37
SpeedEvil	mgedmin: that'd be really handy	12:37
Myrtti	rubbish	12:38
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sarower	good morning all	12:39
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sarower	How to invalidate rect when using HildonWindow?	12:40
sarower	any body any idea?	12:40
VDVsx	news firmware features: Among the functionality is an app which periodically pulls down contact profile photos and automatically syndicates them out to the various social networking and address book databases across the Maemo handset.	12:40
VDVsx	sounds like hermes :P	12:40
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Stskeeps	VDVsx: source?	12:41
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VDVsx	Stskeeps, http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n900-ships-today-maemo-enhancements-get-video-demo-1063170/	12:41
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Stskeeps	ah, peter's n900 is probably an adventure in itself	12:42
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Stskeeps	it doesn't mean it is in fw	12:42
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VDVsx	Stskeeps, of course,lol	12:42
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Myrtti	flipflop	12:46
sarower	I am using HildonWindow in my application and can not invalidate it!	12:46
sarower	how it could be done?	12:46
Sargun	The gods have blessed us on this very good day.	12:47
Sargun	http://www.reuters.com/article/technologySector/idUSHEL00939820091110	12:47
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ccooke	Morning, all	12:47
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Sargun	when will my Amazong preordered one get here?	12:47
Sargun	We've been blessed.	12:47
Myrtti	Sargun: your guess is as good as ours	12:48
Sargun	I'd say probably a week at least	12:49
Sargun	http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-begins-shipping/	12:49
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hrw	soon DDP threads start to appear with "argh!!! ddp not sent me info yet" :D	12:51
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edgar2	anyone know of how to re-flash the n900 now that shipments have started?	12:52
mgedmin	sarower, usually people need to invalidate the widgets they're drawing on, e.g. GtkDrawingArea, not the whole window	12:52
edgar2	ie, ROM image somewhere?	12:52
mgedmin	there's a gtk function for that iirc	12:52
mgedmin	gdk_window_invalidate_rect	12:52
mgedmin	maybe you want gtk_widget_queue_draw_area instead, sarower?	12:52
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sarower	mgedmin: something like that	12:53
Sargun	it's been a little more than a few hours.	12:53
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sarower	mgedmin: any way how i can draw widget over a drawing area	12:53
mgedmin	hm	12:55
mgedmin	maybe GtkLayout containing both the drawing area and the widget?	12:56
mgedmin	there was a similar question on planet gnome today	12:56
mgedmin	http://www.bani.com.br/lang/en/2009/11/rounded-boxes-in-gtk/	12:56
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sarower	Suppose i have taken an image (suppose a.png) as gtkimage in a vbox later i want to change the image by (b.png)	13:01
sarower	how it could be?	13:01
vesa	edgar2: i don't think there's an image public yet. afaik the flashing software will be available as public domain which would suggest the image would too	13:02
sarower	mgedmin: ?	13:03
mgedmin	is there a #gtk?	13:03
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serenity	hi	13:04
Stskeeps	vesa: flasher is open but images are usually behind eulas	13:04
mgedmin	sarower, go ahead and change it, what's the problem? do you have difficulties finding the api function?	13:04
mgedmin	devhelp rules	13:04
mgedmin	google does too	13:04
serenity	i just dl'ed Maemo_PreFinal_2_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip.001 and 002. After cat i have one .zip, but can't unpack it	13:04
sarower	mgedmin: I have changed but does not work!	13:05
mgedmin	it should've	13:06
mgedmin	pastebin your code?	13:06
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Sargun	I'm going to wake up in a few hours, and find out my N900 has shipped, right? :-P	13:06
vesa	mm sweet. samsung coming out with their own mobile os	13:07
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lardman	morning	13:08
vesa	oops, wrong channel that =/	13:08
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lardman	vesa: you've given yourself away now....	13:08
frals	:D	13:08
vesa	damn... =)	13:09
vesa	the more the merrier, eh?	13:09
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sarower	SUppose i have three vbox and inside one i am packing an image by gtkimage. I wnat to change it during run time	13:12
sarower	but it does not work!	13:13
mgedmin	ah, but is the samsung mobile os built on linux?	13:13
sarower	strange!	13:13
mgedmin	yeah!	13:13
mgedmin	sarower, the process debugging boils down to systematically examining your assumptions and finding which one (or which ones) do not match reality	13:13
serenity	anyone an idea, why unpacking doesn't work?	13:15
stevem	OMG an N900 WiMax!	13:16
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Stskeeps	stevem: source? :P	13:17
stevem	(just kidding!)	13:17
lcuk	serenity, same here. last year i got one and it was packed with .7z and managed to get that back together	13:18
lcuk	i tried a few days ago and got 2 parts incomplete	13:18
lcuk	not had time to see why i couldnt glue em back together tho	13:18
Stskeeps	just get a ubuntu VM and put the scripts on top.	13:18
serenity	the md5 sums are ok, but the result after cat doesn't work	13:18
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stevem	Do you think Nokia's relationship with WiMax is dead?	13:19
lardman	urgh, maemo.org is sooo slow	13:20
lardman	or is that the isp problem?	13:20
mgedmin	afaiu the servers are overloaded	13:21
Stskeeps	lardman: they did a changeover today	13:21
lardman	more servers sounds like a good idea	13:21
mgedmin	I dunno if the bottleneck is CPU or I/O	13:21
mgedmin	more servers are planned in december	13:21
* mgedmin just repeating rumors		13:21
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lardman	there must be some old N810s scudding about to add the the existing 770	13:21
mgedmin	well, not rumors, official news from the official webmaster	13:21
frals	I dont notice any slowness over my 3g connection	13:21
mgedmin	afaiu they're building a new server room from scratch	13:21
mgedmin	out of lego blocks	13:21
mgedmin	for the new n810 servers	13:22
Stskeeps	no, out of bricked n900s	13:22
Stskeeps	:P	13:22
edgar2	:)	13:22
lardman	ah, that's why it's slow, overly aggressive power saving on the wifi connections	13:22
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hanno	hi there. what's the target price one should settle for in Europe for the n900? there are already offers at 500€, will it go lower than that?	13:22
lardman	is Attila Csipa on here somewhere?	13:22
serenity	hanno: not much, because then it will be cheaper than n97 mini	13:23
lardman	I was wanting to talk to him about Shepherd and context aware applications	13:24
sarower	Suppose that i have added a button in a container. Is it possible to change the widget in the run time?	13:26
lardman	yes	13:26
lardman	as long as you have a pointer to it	13:26
sarower	suppose later i want to add a label there	13:26
hanno	the web is full of fraudulent sellers for the n900, already.	13:26
lardman	on the button or above/below/beside it?	13:26
sarower	lardman: Suppose fiet time i have added a button and in the run time i want to add a label instead of that button	13:27
serenity	hanno: but all about 500€s	13:27
sarower	is it possible?	13:27
hanno	serenity - the fraudulent ones are lower. :-)	13:27
serenity	expect 450€ as cheapest to the end of year	13:28
lardman	sarower: yes	13:28
lardman	sarower: though I'd need to look at the docs to work out how to remove a widget and add in a new one	13:28
lardman	not being much of a UI person myself ;)	13:28
sarower	lardman: So !	13:28
sarower	lardman: it is still a problem to me	13:28
hanno	i don't believe this guy is real - http://www.b2b-zentrum.de/angebot/1008921/artikel.html - there are dozens like this one out there.	13:29
lardman	sarower: try something like this: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkContainer.html#gtk-container-remove	13:29
lardman	or as it says there, just destroy it and it will be removed	13:30
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range	hanno: nope, even without MwSt. this is too low.	13:30
frals	Nice, first post about his order not being shipped yet	13:31
frals	s/post/topic/	13:32
infobot	frals meant: Nice, first topic about his order not being shipped yet	13:32
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lcuk	lardman, sarower havent you then got to make sure you put the new label/widget back int othe same packing order space?	13:33
lardman	sarower: seem suitable then?	13:33
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cehteh	http://www.papayaone.com/sensor-cellphone-p-3211.html << \o/ china	13:33
lcuk	if you just append from a layout the new item will just come at the bottom	13:33
lardman	lcuk: in which case you ask the container for the location of the widget and insert it in the same place	13:33
lcuk	yeah but must remember to do it before you destroy it	13:34
lardman	yep	13:34
crashanddie	I've got 12 megs of free space left	13:34
crashanddie	but I need to install GCC	13:34
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crashanddie	which is 14 megs	13:34
crashanddie	what do I do?	13:34
lardman	jump	13:34
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crashanddie	everybody jump whooooooooo-hooooo	13:34
lardman	also the fs is compressed, so you might make it, just....	13:34
lardman	if you're talking about the rootfs that is	13:35
lardman	?	13:35
ccooke	crashanddie: what are you installing to?	13:35
lardman	otherwise buy a bigger uSD card	13:35
crashanddie	no go	13:35
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crashanddie	lardman: I can't change the uSD card	13:35
ccooke	crashanddie: do you have space on it?	13:35
wazd	I still cant see any phone there :(	13:36
ccooke	crashanddie: I take it you can't uninstall anything?	13:36
mgedmin	is gcc optified?	13:37
xnt14	guys the n900 is (coming) out (very soon?) !	13:37
mgedmin	(probably not)	13:37
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Stskeeps	xnt14: shipped toda	13:37
Stskeeps	y	13:37
Stskeeps	shipping that is	13:37
xnt14	awesome ;)	13:37
crashanddie	ccooke: yeah, sure	13:37
crashanddie	lardman: PM	13:37
* cehteh wonders what (local) versions are shipped, which countries		13:38
lcuk	mgedmin, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/53026	13:38
crashanddie	o/ lcuk	13:38
ccooke	crashanddie: if not and you have space free, there's the script I wrote a while back - that'll shunt some stuff into /opt for you	13:38
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crashanddie	ccooke: I tried that, but didn't know what I was supposed to do with it	13:38
crashanddie	what was the name again?	13:38
lcuk	hi seb	13:38
* lcuk tries to beat up scratchbox		13:39
* crashanddie helps lcuk		13:39
* mgedmin hands lcuk an extra spanner		13:39
* Stskeeps hands lcuk a knife		13:39
crashanddie	scratchbox can feel the love	13:39
mgedmin	poor scratchbox	13:39
ccooke	crashanddie: http://pastebin.com/f1355fe1f	13:39
* mgedmin stands back and watches		13:39
crashanddie	ccooke: yup, that's the one, but how do you use it? It started asking me a bunch of questions and I didn't know what would break or not	13:40
lardman	crashanddie: I don't see any PMs	13:40
crashanddie	lardman: you need a dog then	13:40
zaheerm	the pulsing dots when asked to wait for something, is it in a hildon widget i can use in my app?	13:40
lardman	crappy client	13:41
ccooke	crashanddie: okay. It's asking about whether to move files into opt for each package, ordered by the size of files in /usr	13:41
* lardman restarts, bbiam		13:41
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ccooke	crashanddie: busybox is a bad one to move	13:41
ccooke	crashanddie: but libqt is a good bet	13:41
crashanddie	ccooke: ok	13:41
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lardman	re	13:41
crashanddie	ccooke: so which command should I type to arc or skip?	13:41
ccooke	crashanddie: Type 'arc' to move files to /opt	13:42
ccooke	crashanddie: enter to move to the next package	13:42
ccooke	crashanddie: if you've already moved a package's files, 'undo' will undo it.	13:42
ccooke	crashanddie: and as I said - don't move busybox or anything else you think isn't a GUI app :-)	13:43
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ccooke	I've moved:	13:43
ccooke	adobe-flashplayer, hildon-theme-alpha, libqt4-core, nokia-maps-core, nokia-maps-maplets, nokia-maps-ui	13:44
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ccooke	oh, and when I tried openttd, I'd moved that, too :-)	13:44
serenity	will a packages out of debian-arm-repo work on a n900?	13:44
serenity	-s	13:44
ccooke	serenity: without modification it's unlikely	13:44
serenity	ok	13:45
crashanddie	does the n900 support SDIO?	13:45
shayatin	anyone tried porting mupen64 on maemo ?	13:46
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ccooke	crashanddie: given the location of the sd card, I'd guess the answer's no regardless of technical ability	13:46
crashanddie	eh?	13:46
lardman	because you can't close the door	13:46
crashanddie	did not compute	13:46
lardman	depends on whether the card is oversided or not	13:47
crashanddie	ah, ok	13:47
crashanddie	yeah, not an issue here	13:47
lardman	but you may well find there's no support as most cards are oversided	13:47
ccooke	crashanddie: the SD card is under the battery cover and fits into a niche: There's nowhere for anything that wouldn't fit in a microsd enclosure to go.	13:47
crashanddie	ccooke: yeah, but SDIO does not == bigger card, so the protocol could be supported, correct?	13:48
lardman	s/oversided/oversized	13:48
ccooke	... actually, I've never seen a microsd SDIO card. Only full-size ones.	13:48
lardman	you'll need to check the kernel code	13:48
sarower	I have a drawing area widget where i am playing my camera. After taking the photo i want to show the image over the drawing area instead of camera	13:48
crashanddie	fair enough	13:48
sarower	Is it possible?	13:48
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lardman	sarower: yes	13:48
crashanddie	sarower: just change the imgsource for a second	13:48
sarower	crashanddie: Sorry! Could not understand	13:49
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Stskeeps	morning zerojay	13:53
crashanddie	sarower: your camera viewer area is set to the camera as the image source	13:53
crashanddie	sarower: after taking the picture, you have the image, set that as the image source for a few seconds, then switch again to the camera input	13:54
sarower	crashanddie: yes...!	13:54
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* ccooke considers: bluetooth keyboard, portable LCD TV with batteries, n900.		13:54
ccooke	That could be an interesting mobile coding station :-)	13:54
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sarower	rashanddie: not few second...	13:55
sarower	i need it to show there for long time untill get the user event	13:55
sarower	rashanddie:...!	13:55
crashanddie	well, that's your decision mate	13:55
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sarower	rashanddie: How i will set the image source source . It works with gst stuff, right?	13:59
crashanddie	sarower: you didn't even say which toolkit you're using	13:59
crashanddie	sarower: but yeah, if you're using gstreamer, it should be possible	13:59
crashanddie	Nokia Maps is based on HTML?	13:59
sarower	rashanddie: camera is related to gstelement	13:59
crashanddie	please type my nickname correctly	14:00
range	Hey, but it made sense, too :)	14:00
crashanddie	true	14:00
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wazd	roadrashanddie :D	14:01
lopz	hey ;)	14:02
sarower	crashanddie: Sorry yaar!	14:02
jeremiah	crashcrashcrashanddie	14:02
sarower	crashanddie: camera is showing over a drawing area widget. If i can change the drawing area widget by gtk image widget!	14:03
sarower	crashanddie: it would be very simple	14:03
crashanddie	sarower: you could do something like that	14:04
sarower	crashanddie: but i can not do that!	14:04
sarower	crashanddie: IT IS NOT WORKING	14:04
sarower	crashanddie: i am doing like this...	14:04
crashanddie	sarower: I would suggest you play around with a few different algorithms (switching gstreamer source, switching drawing area type, hidding/displaying the correct drawing area)	14:04
sarower	gtk_container_remove(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->cam_box), appdata->screen);	14:04
crashanddie	sarower: you're talking to me like it's my fault or I care	14:04
Myrtti	have a lollipop, for gods sake	14:05
sarower	gtk_container_add(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->cam_box), img);	14:05
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sarower	crashanddie: No man i am considering you as an expert	14:05
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crashanddie	sarower: you're wrong	14:06
Myrtti	crashanddie: you've deserved a cookie	14:06
* Myrtti hands crashanddie a cookie		14:06
Lynoure	How does one bookmark webpages in N900?	14:08
Lynoure	After all this use, I still have not figured it out.	14:08
auenf	prolly the 'menu'	14:08
Lynoure	auenf: I tried tapping Bookmark there, and promptly was sent to look at my bookmarks	14:09
jeremiah	Use the little "+"	14:10
VDVsx	Lynoure, the big "+" in the bar	14:10
VDVsx	eheh	14:10
jeremiah	That will bookmark stuff for ya!	14:10
wazd	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llg7e0sLHMA&feature=channel	14:10
Lynoure	Thanks,... so obvious... and so not :)	14:10
jeremiah	big, little "+"	14:10
auenf	was it 'bookmark' or 'bookmarks' in the 'menu' ?	14:10
wazd	in fact n900 is not that "OHMYGOOOOD!!!" much thicker than droid	14:10
Lynoure	I still need to find a way to tell the Application manager to not to hog everything at the first sight of a network connection	14:11
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Lynoure	Because usually when I get suddenly online after a day offline, it is to urgently check bus schedules.	14:12
jeremiah	Lynoure: Yeah, I am not fond of that either.	14:12
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* GeneralAntilles yawns.		14:20
* GeneralAntilles wonders what build the retail units will have.		14:20
jeremiah	Harmattan.	14:21
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lardman	I was wondering that actually ;)	14:21
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, ping?	14:23
VDVsx	I bet w44 :P	14:24
lardman	I wonder when we will get this mysterious new image...? :)	14:24
GeneralAntilles	41-10	14:24
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, some blogger already have w42, I've seen screenshots	14:25
edgar2	so where to keep looking for the new image?	14:25
edgar2	also, i think i'd like to reflash	14:25
zaheerm	people seem to have w45	14:25
VDVsx	bahh, I loose ;)	14:26
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, doesn't mean it'll be in retail. :P	14:26
lardman	zaheerm: people like whom?	14:26
lardman	not us at any rate :)	14:26
zaheerm	i saw a bug report closed saying ti works fine with w45	14:26
zaheerm	not me :)	14:26
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, true	14:26
GeneralAntilles	Andre just closed some for w46.	14:26
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* VDVsx wants a new image with portrait mode on the browser :P		14:30
lardman	Portrait mode on the calendar for me please	14:30
ShadowJK	so nokia press release just said they're delivering n900 today. They didn't say to who, though	14:31
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GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, distributors, clearly.	14:32
ShadowJK	Maybe they meant they sent a discounted one out	14:32
zaheerm	probably means nokia retail won't see them for a few days	14:33
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Dantonic	yes but when are they going to send it to me??	14:34
vesa	soon(tm)	14:34
TomaszD	hey, is the release firmware available somewhere now that shipping has begun?	14:34
* edgar2 +1		14:34
vesa	not publically as i've understood from statements here	14:34
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TomaszD	why?	14:35
Myrtti	I think someone should change the topic...	14:35
Myrtti	"yes, it has started shipping, but your guesses are as good as ours"	14:35
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GeneralAntilles	TomaszD, because nobody has uploaded it yet?	14:35
vesa	TomaszD: you'd have to ask nokia.	14:35
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t_s_o	hrmf, typical that i would hit a income valley when it starts showing...	14:36
TomaszD	I will ask Nokia	14:36
lardman	wait till you get a device in your hand	14:37
edgar2	worksforsome :)	14:37
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edgar2	but for the sparta people, not so much	14:37
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vesa	anyone else had trouble with scratchbox net connectivity? works out but not in =/	14:38
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vesa	it has worked in the past, usually a reboot helps but not this time	14:39
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pupnik	getting some crazy noises from mplayer playing back recent youtubes	14:41
pupnik	somebody stacksmashing?	14:41
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VDVsx	so, "Maemo select" is 'mirroring' Extras ? :)	14:44
VDVsx	http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/1/0/0/#content	14:44
kalikianatoli	not as such, it includes Nokia apps as well	14:45
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Jaffa	Morning, all	14:46
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: pong	14:46
VDVsx	kalikianatoli, yup, but almost all 'Extras' apps as well ;)	14:47
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jeremiah	VDVsx: Nice catch :)	14:47
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zaheerm	trending topic on twitter: Nokia N900 Now	14:50
zaheerm	VDVsx, wasn't that the idea?	14:50
Jaffa	VDVsx: It's supposed to be the "best" of Extras. As Extras only contains good stuff right now...	14:50
*** GAN900_ is now known as GAN900		14:50
VDVsx	zaheerm, more or less, I'm not complaining or rating ;)	14:51
VDVsx	Jaffa, ehehhe, true	14:51
GAN900	Jaffa, I had a though as I was skimming through the app list.	14:51
GAN900	Jaffa, why not drop the apostraphe from Hermes' short description?	14:51
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jeremiah	VDVsx: Do we have a facility for logging the extras-testing chat today?	14:53
jeremiah	I think I can log it with irssi if you want.	14:53
VDVsx	jeremiah, mmlogger is there	14:53
jeremiah	okay, cool	14:53
wazd	Copernicium	14:53
wazd	Periodic table of chemical elements.	14:53
vesa	scratchbox resolving resolved, wrong dns in resolv.conf...	14:53
VDVsx	jeremiah, but I don't know where the logs will end up, X-fade is the bot owner	14:54
wazd	Copernic was an astronomer	14:54
GAN900	X-Fade will have to upload them.	14:55
VDVsx	mgedmin, ping	14:55
jeremiah	aha	14:56
Jaffa	GAN900: Because it enriches the information of your contacts, and so it's possessive.	14:56
jeremiah	And it's grammatically correct. :)	14:56
GAN900	Jaffa, it can work either way	14:57
GAN900	Personal, I think it sounds better without.	14:58
Jaffa	VDVsx: Besides, it's not all Extras apps: neither of mine are	14:58
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Jaffa	GAN900: It sounds the same either way ;-)	14:58
GeneralAntilles	You know what I mean. ;)	14:59
GeneralAntilles	Or maybe it just sounds less British.	14:59
Jaffa	i.e. inaccurate and lazy? ;-)	14:59
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wazd	http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/applications/vncviewer/ lol	15:01
wazd	nice screenshot	15:02
frals	:D	15:02
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GAN900	I vote for "contact information" or "contacts information"	15:03
zaheerm	Jaffa, hermes not in maemo select?	15:03
Jaffa	zaheerm: Correct.	15:03
zaheerm	:(	15:03
zaheerm	that sucks	15:03
Jaffa	Presumably because of a rogue apostrophe? ;-)	15:03
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zaheerm	lol	15:04
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* GeneralAntilles throws paper balls at Jaffa.		15:04
frals	i wonder if its time to throw away that "n900 shipping delayed" now that its shipping from the factory	15:05
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kurtan	http://www.mobil.se/artikel/nokia_borjar_salja_supermobilen_n900_mob_091110130156-421.html	15:09
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kurtan	that makes me so angry i could kill	15:09
tru	why?	15:10
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kurtan	nokia sweden puts a hold on deliveries until the phone can handle 3's sim cards	15:11
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Myrtti	HA-HA<nelson/>	15:11
zaheerm	kurtan, 3 exist in sweden?	15:12
* kurtan is not amused		15:12
kurtan	yes	15:12
* SpeedEvil is amused.		15:12
zaheerm	hopefully nokia uk won't do the same	15:12
Stskeeps	kurtan: time to demonstrate in front of the shops	15:12
Stskeeps	kurtan: which is completely stupid since it's a SW issue, not HW	15:12
kurtan	indubitably	15:12
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SpeedEvil	Assuming the flash can be performed by the user	15:13
kurtan	and 3 only has like 1/6th of the market, its rubbish	15:13
zaheerm	they want more sales for n97 mini perhaps	15:13
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SpeedEvil	For legal reasons - for example - is the firmware able to be shipped to end-users, along with a flash updater tool	15:14
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: SSU..	15:14
zaheerm	NSU on win32 will work i guess	15:15
jeremiah	kurtan: I have 3 in Sweden - I had to leave them just to get my N900 to work as a phone.	15:15
jeremiah	I doubt this will be fixed anytime soon. :(	15:15
Stskeeps	it'll be in a SSU in december some claimed	15:16
Myrtti	jeremiah: aw. I take my Nelson-impression ha-ha back	15:16
lcuk	peter claimed such on tmo i believe	15:16
jeremiah	\0/	15:16
kurtan	the dude from nokia sweden claimed it to be in the next firmware due in week 49	15:16
jeremiah	But too late for me.	15:16
jeremiah	Besides, 3 sucks.	15:17
jeremiah	Telenor FTW!	15:17
lcuk	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=353767	15:17
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frals	ajgioshagdg wtf sweden not selling it	15:18
mgedmin	VDVsx, pong, kinda	15:18
frals	god i hope my retailer is selling it - no sane man is using 3 anyway!	15:18
kurtan	http://www.minhembio.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=240785&view=findpost&p=2651435	15:19
lcuk	o_O i have unlimited internet and SMS from o2 on my payg sim :D	15:19
lcuk	only 7.50 a month as a bolton :D	15:19
pupnik	that is nice	15:19
* lcuk is now online as it happens		15:19
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Shapeshifter	heh. availability in my preferred shop went up to "early december" as well.	15:20
zaheerm	lcuk, except when all your batteries run out of juice ;)	15:21
zaheerm	or o2's data network stops working ;)	15:22
Shapeshifter	the waiting game continues. I really didn't expect it any earlier then mid-november when they said october a while ago	15:22
VDVsx	mgedmin, Can you loan us one of your bots ? we need one at maemo-meeting :P	15:22
lcuk	zaheerm, have spare batteries, am used to having no internet or credit at all	15:22
frals	kurtan: I wonder if komplett/dustin etc gets their phones from Nokia Sverige or if its only for the people who order from store.nokia.se	15:22
lcuk	so however much uptime i have now is up from before	15:22
kurtan	frals: dunno, i've ordered from nokia sverige thou :(	15:23
VDVsx	mgedmin, can be the one at maemo-testing, we don't need him there anymore	15:23
lcuk	anyway, wasnt stopping, dinner pinged bbl	15:23
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frals	okey, i just mailed dustinhome and asked :P	15:23
range	Uuuuuh, microwave.	15:23
mgedmin	VDVsx, okay, just a sec	15:24
jeremiah	frals: They probably get it from the distributor channel, i.e. TechData or Ingram Micro, etc.	15:24
mgedmin	VDVsx, how urgent is this?	15:24
frals	yeah, thats what im hoping... otherwise im gonna use my silja card and go to helsinki and buy it lol	15:24
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VDVsx	mgedmin, 14:30 UTC :P	15:24
kurtan	:p	15:24
jeremiah	silja card?	15:25
jeremiah	What is that? :)	15:25
kurtan	ferry line card	15:25
mgedmin	the bot should be there (unless the server reboots and it forgets to re-join)	15:25
jeremiah	I am going to Riga on Siljay	15:25
VDVsx	mgedmin, but if you don't have time, dont worry ;)	15:25
jeremiah	Should I get a card?	15:25
mgedmin	I'll make the logs available on the web this evening, if it's all right	15:25
jeremiah	mgedmin: Should be fine.	15:25
frals	yeah, you get a bonus card or something and you get cheaper tickets/stuff	15:25
jeremiah	w00t	15:25
jeremiah	I'm in Gbg so I won't use Silja that often.	15:25
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VDVsx	mgedmin, thanks :)	15:26
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Jaffa	VDVsx: luovanto and WeAreMaemo have just confirmed on Twitter that all Extras apps are supposed to show up in Maemo Select (atm, at least)	15:30
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GeneralAntilles	What the HELL is on http://maemo.nokia.com	15:32
GeneralAntilles	Are those mutant monster fingers?	15:32
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crashanddie	lolwut	15:32
Stskeeps	creepy hands v2?	15:32
crashanddie	apt-get install grep	15:32
crashanddie	??	15:32
inz	GA, they're penguins...	15:33
Stskeeps	wtf at the penguin	15:33
inz	...with lasers...	15:33
Stskeeps	friggen lasers!	15:33
inz	yesh	15:33
inz	!	15:33
GeneralAntilles	inz, Ok, I can see that.	15:33
GeneralAntilles	Sort of	15:33
inz	Sharks just became obsolete	15:33
mgedmin	aieeee!	15:33
jeremiah	Is that really a penguin?	15:33
Stskeeps	it's a hardcore penguin.	15:34
GeneralAntilles	There are dangerous minds behind the N900 marketing campaign.	15:34
Stskeeps	i want to see the first video as a tv commercial	15:34
Stskeeps	:P	15:34
frals	the maemoproject ad is pretty nice, doesnt say a whole lot to people not familiar with the device thou	15:35
jeremiah	It's a 'lifestyle' thing	15:35
range	I think they should update the stores. "BUY NOW" -> "Preorder" (at least for .de)	15:35
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Jaffa	Bah, no N900 in Forum Nokia eShop yet. Wondered what the UK discount price would be	15:36
crashanddie	halp: checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... configure: error: no acceptable grep could be found in	15:36
inz	jeremiah, the one peeking (with LASER EYEs) behind the text is easiest to recognise	15:36
ccooke	Obviously they're playing some sort of laser tag game. With their eyes, and the Maemo sculpture for cover	15:37
jeremiah	crashanddie: Can you use xargs?	15:37
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ccooke	(it'd be ideal, actually - lots of holes to peer out of)	15:37
Stskeeps	it's symbolism of the gnubies attacking maemo for it's closed blobs	15:37
crashanddie	jeremiah: not my configure script, and it's bloody massive	15:37
mgedmin	crashanddie: apt-get install findutils?	15:37
crashanddie	jeremiah: and it works in scratchbox	15:37
mgedmin	assuming it exists	15:37
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mgedmin	busybox grep is lame	15:37
lardman\|home	am trying to port some code that uses the apparently rather nasty gtk_ui_manager_add_ui_from_file() functions, any hints?	15:37
crashanddie	mgedmin: lol... same as apt-get install grep... Try it, it's fun	15:38
crashanddie	After this operation, 194MB disk space will be freed.	15:38
mgedmin	and the device will be bricked	15:38
mgedmin	apt should totally say that	15:38
ccooke	crashanddie: erk!	15:38
crashanddie	mgedmin: other options?	15:40
jeremiah	After this operation, 194MB disk will be freed and your device will go up in flames.	15:40
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mgedmin	5995,00 SEK looks like a lot	15:40
jeremiah	It isn't	15:40
frals	talk abit crowded.. Most users ever online was 1,091, Today at 14:38. :D	15:40
mgedmin	crashanddie: yes, but I'm too busy now to explain them	15:40
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RST38h	Hmm...something weird is going on	15:40
jeremiah	6000 SEK is actually not bad at all.	15:40
ShadowJK	It's SEK, move the decimal point leftward one digit	15:41
Jaffa	jeremiah: Not for Sweden, anyway	15:41
ShadowJK	to start with	15:41
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I tried to order mine yesterday.	15:41
ShadowJK	and then consider their 25% VAT	15:41
* Jaffa waves from Stockholm		15:41
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, need to talk to the credit card company, though, since they flagged the transaction.	15:41
RST38h	I am getting a flood of notifications from maemo-admin: looks like some anonymous entity is voting my apps down, multiple times	15:41
* jeremiah waves from Gothenburg		15:41
GeneralAntilles	I REALLY don't care for doing this whole deal through Forum Nokia.	15:41
jeremiah	The Front of Sweden	15:41
RST38h	That is not Extras-Testing votes but Maemo5 Downloads votes	15:41
mgedmin	jeremiah, hi!	15:41
* mgedmin is there too		15:41
jeremiah	wha?	15:42
Jaffa	jeremiah: I thought about waving as the plane HUD showed us flying overhead.	15:42
mgedmin	until saturday	15:42
jeremiah	I had no idea!	15:42
VDVsx	Jaffa, cool ;9	15:42
jeremiah	ah	15:42
jeremiah	FSCONS?	15:42
GeneralAntilles	Obnoxious, inappropriate process, NDA agreements, overseas seller, etc, etc.	15:42
jeremiah	Or are you at the GNU hackers meeting?	15:42
* mgedmin is consulting		15:42
* mgedmin is in theory pair-programming right now		15:42
jeremiah	Oooooh. Slick. :)	15:42
RST38h	Hmm...What the hell	15:42
GeneralAntilles	Did the N810 discount program come with warranties?	15:43
* kurtan waves from somewhere på landet		15:43
kurtan	:P	15:43
jeremiah	mgedmin: Are you in Lindholmen some where?	15:43
RST38h	Can we please log the IP address atleast?!?	15:43
mgedmin	Sannegarten	15:43
mgedmin	so pretty close	15:43
Shapeshifter	http://www.reuters.com/article/technologySector/idUSHEL00939820091110	15:43
Shapeshifter	so, apparently they should be shipping today	15:43
jeremiah	Nu ska vi talar svenska eftersom alla e i sverige!	15:43
Myrtti	♥	15:43
kurtan	<3	15:43
frals	svenska <3	15:43
RST38h	moo Myrtti	15:43
mgedmin	the only word I didn't understand from that was "e"	15:44
onion	eller e finlandssvenskar :)	15:44
jeremiah	e is ar	15:44
frals	e is slang for är	15:44
jeremiah	^^	15:44
mgedmin	slang! not fair!	15:44
jeremiah	what he said. :)	15:44
RST38h	Mmm?	15:44
jeremiah	I had to use since I am use Synergy and it does something wierd to Unicode.	15:44
* Jaffa gets by with "tack" and "another beer, please"		15:45
jeremiah	heh	15:45
Jaffa	Oh, and "hey"	15:45
jeremiah	hej!	15:45
Jaffa	I don't have to write it ;)	15:45
crashanddie	OK, so i tried copying the scratchbox grep to the N900, didn't work so well	15:45
frals	:D	15:45
* mgedmin gets by with "tack" and "hej" too, and /me doesn't drink beer		15:45
ShadowJK	onion, du också?	15:45
frals	depending on if you are in the suburbs of stockholm or not, that might be more swedish than the average "swede".. ;P	15:45
jeremiah	nejmen, ShadowJK du med?	15:46
mgedmin	crashanddie, most likely scratchbox grep is x86	15:46
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mgedmin	but if you can find the armel findutils .deb and extract it ...	15:46
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ShadowJK	jeremiah, ja om du säger att vi ska tala sv är det väl bäst att lyda ;)	15:48
VDVsx	lcuk, http://www.slashgear.com/maemo-contagious-content-concept-promises-geo-linked-collaborative-media-1063181/ ;)	15:48
jeremiah	heh	15:48
jeremiah	bra sagt!	15:48
jeremiah	:)	15:49
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* jeremiah had no idea there were so many Swedish speakers here.		15:49
zacky	eller nordmenn	15:49
jeremiah	Wow!	15:49
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jeremiah	Just det	15:49
lcuk	VDVsx, best hope the gps doesnt show us as 2 streets over then	15:49
Lupu	eller finsk som förstår lite svenska	15:50
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jeremiah	Tankt inte pa det	15:50
Myrtti	+1	15:50
jeremiah	w00t	15:50
lcuk	in amsterdam, thats the difference between normality and who knows what	15:50
Myrtti	jeremiah: fail	15:50
lardman\|home	anyone feel like writing a Hildon version of GTK ui manager?	15:50
mgedmin	I studied danish for a year, that's why I kinda can read swedish	15:50
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jeremiah	Myrtti: Yeah, not the same without the a,a,o :)	15:50
VDVsx	lcuk, lol	15:51
jeremiah	lardman\|home: I'd love to.	15:51
Myrtti	jeremiah: man kan aldrig glömma Finlandäre som kan svenska...	15:51
ShadowJK	mgedmin, to me the people in south sweden sound like danish anyway... </troll>	15:51
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mgedmin	heh, I can't really understand either language, when spoken	15:51
jeremiah	Like Linus Torvalds!	15:51
mgedmin	to me spoken swedish sounds a bit like spoken japanese sometimes	15:51
frals	kurtan: just got reply from dustinhome, they wont get it before Nokia Sverige starts to sell it appearently :<	15:51
kurtan	frals.. bah	15:52
Myrtti	jeremiah: men han är ju finlandssvenskt, inte bara en finlandäre som kan prata svenska	15:52
frals	but someone the forum you posted got a reply from netonnet saying they are shipping this week (planned)	15:52
kurtan	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-faCh8BUEts but s/Glenn Beck/Klas Ström	15:52
kurtan	frals: saw that	15:52
jeremiah	Myrtti: reall?	15:52
jeremiah	I thought he was from Finland.	15:53
ShadowJK	he is	15:53
ShadowJK	It's like the french speakers in canada	15:53
frals	orders from netonnet	15:53
jeremiah	French Canadians are just freaks.	15:53
Myrtti	jeremiah: there's a difference between Swedes who've moved here from Sweden, and people speaking Swedish that have been here since age eternal	15:54
jeremiah	aha	15:54
Myrtti	s/here/to Finland/	15:54
infobot	Myrtti meant: jeremiah: tto Finland's a difference between Swedes who've moved here from Sweden, and people speaking Swedish that have been here since age eternal	15:54
sarower	Can not i add widget in a GTK_BOX dynamicaly?	15:54
Myrtti	FAIL	15:54
pablo	Anybody know where the " qt-x11-maemo" ?? Finished? Moved?	15:54
sarower	It can be removed but adding is not working!	15:54
frals	that was a pretty bad s :D	15:54
sarower	Strange!	15:54
Myrtti	I know	15:54
jeremiah	"s/" may have trouble with unicode	15:55
Myrtti	I'll go sacrifice a herring on the altar of Linux later	15:55
lardman\|home	jeremiah: really.....?	15:55
jeremiah	lardman\|home: Sorry, I was being sarcastic. :/	15:55
lardman\|home	thought so, don't worry ;)	15:55
* jeremiah hides from lardman\|home		15:55
* lardman\|home can only see weird glibisms spinning thro his head so no fear		15:56
sarower	Can not i add widget in a GTK_BOX dynamicaly?	15:56
sarower	It can be removed but adding is not working!	15:56
jeremiah	heh	15:56
ShadowJK	And then there are the native-finnish-language finns who've learned swedish as a second language in school...	15:57
pupnik	does it fail with a message sarower ?	15:57
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sarower	pupnik: No message	15:57
ShadowJK	But then it gets complicated to assign names when these minority-language people move across borders :-)	15:58
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sarower	Iam using "gtk_container_add(GTK_CONTAINER(appdata->img_view_box), img);"	16:01
sarower	and "gtk_box_pack_start(GTK_BOX(appdata->img_view_box), img, FALSE, FALSE, 0);"	16:01
sarower	too	16:01
mgedmin	what is the type of img_view_box?	16:02
sarower	vbox	16:02
mgedmin	hmm	16:02
mgedmin	did you make img visible?	16:02
mgedmin	widgets are hidden by default	16:02
sarower	no	16:02
sarower	gtk_widget_show()?	16:02
mgedmin	yes	16:02
sarower	it also does not solves the prob	16:03
mgedmin	usually you do (1) create buncha widgets (2) stuff them inside each other (3) call show_all(), but if you then do (4) add new widgets, you'll need to (5) show() them manually	16:03
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ccooke	Oh, impressive. From http://maemo.nokia.com/ , try to buy an n900 from the UK store :-)	16:03
vesa	anyone done location stuff with maemo5? the example lists methods such as location_gpsd_control_stop which don't seem to exist.	16:03
mgedmin	what do they mean "it's not serious"???	16:03
ccooke	mgedmin: indeed!	16:03
ShadowJK	lol	16:04
lardman\|home	vesa: yeah	16:04
mgedmin	heh, the swedish shop has a dropdown for selecting colour	16:04
mgedmin	the only option is 'black'	16:04
lardman\|home	that fn doesn't seem to work tho	16:04
ShadowJK	aw, no CP-321 on .fi nokia store	16:04
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Jaffa	ccooke: indeed	16:05
lardman\|home	argh, the cursed slow maemo.org!	16:05
Jaffa	Yay, Hermes in Maemo Select	16:05
RST38h	destroooy	16:05
wazd	maemo.org is spamming me with e-mails :(	16:05
RST38h	lardman: Weird crap going on: some anonymous entity is voting my apps down, like dozens of time in a row	16:05
lardman\|home	hmm	16:06
sjgadsby	It's odd that people keep reporting the Talk username "YuuDumFuks" as offensive, but no one complains about "urnass", member since 2007. Is it the camelcase?	16:06
wazd	RST38h: same for you btw? :)	16:06
sarower	mgedmin: Boss it is working now!	16:06
VDVsx	wazd, what did you got ?	16:06
sarower	mgedmin: Thank you	16:06
RST38h	wazd: Yep	16:06
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wazd	RST38h: damn)	16:06
lardman\|home	sjgadsby: shall I use my super powers to change his name to something less offensive? Like Iiimanidiot?	16:06
Jaffa	sjgadsby: Yeah, the camel casing forces a particular pronounciation, wheres I'd pronounce "urnass" as "your-nass"	16:07
wazd	VDVsx: "ATI85 page has been commented by Jaffa. Obey!"	16:07
VDVsx	wazd, ahah	16:07
lardman\|home	oh come on maemo.org, I want to look at the liblocation apis	16:07
wazd	VDVsx: 10 same e-mails already	16:07
crashanddie	anyone got an idea on how to get a real grep on the n900?	16:07
VDVsx	wazd, I also got some for Supertux	16:07
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Jaffa	sjgadsby: However, I've got in trouble before for supposition as to other's actions (particularly with Texrat)	16:08
GeneralAntilles	sociopath.	16:09
lardman\|home	vesa: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/LocationGPSDevice.html#location-gps-device-stop	16:09
lardman\|home	?	16:09
mgedmin	crashanddie: what I would do was apt-get source -b findutils in scratchbox, then scp the grep binary over	16:09
mgedmin	a nicer way to have grep for everyone would be to build a package that, I dunno, uses dpkg-divert maybe to move the busybox grep aside?	16:09
vesa	lardman\|home: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/liblocation/LocationGPSDControl.html#location-gpsd-control-stop	16:09
mgedmin	which sounds like work	16:10
vesa	lardman\|home: but my problem seems to be in the linking phaze.	16:10
vesa	lardman\|home: ie. it's not even compiling yet =) i've got -llocation, is there some other lib that i should be including?	16:10
zaheerm	Jaffa, saw hermes on maemo select just now :)	16:11
fiferboy	Any guesses on when the final firmware will be available?	16:11
lardman\|home	vesa: use pkg-config	16:11
lardman\|home	vesa: what app are you making?	16:12
SpeedEvil	fiferboy: 4:37 in the morning of the 14th of november. (UTC).	16:12
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lardman\|home	hey fiferboy	16:12
fiferboy	SpeedEvil: That is a precise guess	16:12
mgedmin	SpeedEvil, is that 4:37:00 or 4:37:59?	16:12
fiferboy	hi lardman\|home	16:12
mgedmin	be specific, man!	16:12
lardman\|home	we want pico-seconds!	16:13
ShadowJK	wonderful... the "create account" button on nokia.fi store is not clickable	16:13
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vesa	lardman\|home: not so much an app as a runtime kind of thing.	16:13
SpeedEvil	fiferboy: 4:37:15.88	16:13
SpeedEvil	http://www.virtualhud.com/virtualhud/VirtualHUD.aspx Now - that is _clever_	16:14
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fiferboy	SpeedEvil: Thanks for the clarification	16:14
SpeedEvil	(though not directly related to n900	16:14
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vesa	lardman\|home: just getting to grips with maemo development implementing the location -wrappers for our umm. 'base'	16:14
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BBNS	yeah ... finally shipped!	16:14
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, nice.	16:14
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vesa	lardman\|home: http://origoide.com/ is the actual end product	16:15
lardman\|home	and IDE?	16:16
lardman\|home	s/and/an	16:16
lardman\|home	ah, a lang	16:16
BBNS	1,110 online 0_0 see tmo will break even higher record today.	16:17
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lardman\|home	what's the best bet for geocoding? Google or GeoNames?	16:18
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RST38h	wazd: Somebody is really busy voting all the apps down	16:19
SpeedEvil	'best' is a _horribly_ complex thing.	16:19
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lardman\|home	easiest to implement in C ;)	16:19
RST38h	wazd: You are only receiving ati85 notifications but I am getting them all	16:19
SpeedEvil	There can be nasty license provisions for example	16:19
lardman\|home	or rather use	16:19
SpeedEvil	I would say openstreetmaps namefinder, but it's currently broken AIUI	16:20
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lardman\|home	oh	16:20
lardman\|home	shame I can't just have raw lat/lon data from a contact	16:20
lardman\|home	ah well GeoNames looks simple enough to use	16:21
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lardman\|home	that will have to do for the time being	16:21
VDVsx	RST38h, yup, seems so	16:21
cehteh	does the n900 work without battery when you plug the charger in?	16:23
mgedmin	n8x0 didn't	16:23
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Stskeeps	lo qwerty12	16:24
qwerty12	Hiya, stemosco	16:24
qwerty12	*Stskeeps	16:24
lardman\|home	hmm, I seem to remember being told at the summit that Nokia would provide a (reverse)geocoding api for us to use	16:24
lardman\|home	am I remembering properly?	16:24
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RST38h	VDVwsx: Yours too???	16:24
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crashanddie	mgedmin: (from scratchbox) scp /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/bin/grep root@whatever:/usr/bin seems to have done the trick	16:25
VDVsx	RST38h, yup	16:25
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VDVsx	RST38h, from anonymous :P	16:26
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mgedmin	crashanddie: cool	16:29
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mgedmin	I assumed grep might be redirected to a native grep	16:29
mgedmin	native as in x86	16:29
ShadowJK	cehteh, most likely not	16:29
RST38h	VDVsx: We have got a vigilante! Somebody has finally got insane while waiting for his N900!	16:30
VDVsx	RST38h, ehhehe	16:30
* RST38h can't quite get over the feeling of accomplishment at driving another mindless human vermin insane		16:30
* RST38h cackles evilly		16:30
ShadowJK	are they voting all apps down, or just the maemo5 apps down?	16:31
VDVsx	ShadowJK, only maemo5 so far for me	16:32
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Stskeeps	scary @ 1130 users on tal	16:33
Stskeeps	k	16:33
ShadowJK	oh that's a bit funny then :)	16:33
VDVsx	----> Q&A and Extras-testing discussion @ #maemo-meeting - Starting in a few minutes	16:33
lardman\|home	has anyone got pocketsphinx working?	16:33
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* frals heads over to #maemo-meeting for quality stalking		16:34
lardman\|home	bbiab	16:35
RST38h	VDVsx: The Tentacled One is having a feast tonight!	16:35
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Flandry	Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/core/privilege.php on line 457	16:37
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Flandry	I so love trying to use m.o :D	16:37
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frals	well atleast talk is still fast ;)	16:38
Flandry	yeah	16:38
Flandry	funny how that works	16:38
Flandry	anything to actually be productive takes forever	16:38
Flandry	we can chat it up all day unhindered	16:38
frals	:D	16:38
wazd	RST38h: jeez :S	16:38
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Flandry	From the looks of things the testing process needs a bit of streamlining	16:41
Flandry	(might as well throw that old chestnut in there while i'm saying redundant things)	16:42
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Messi	juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html	16:56
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lardman	re	16:57
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lardman	I see geoclue offers geocoding	17:02
lardman	but we use liblocation, so back to the original question - will Nokia offer an api (which is what was mentioned at the summit)?	17:02
vesa	the camera gives tags when you have geotagging on (worked atleast in london)	17:03
vesa	so i guess it's more of 'when will they release the api'	17:04
lardman	yeah	17:04
lardman	so it tags the photos "London"?	17:04
vesa	yeah, i'm just trying to find something from the device to see what it's got	17:04
lardman	might have to do some decompilation	17:04
lardman	but first I'll email the list and ask	17:04
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vesa	yeah, just tags 'finland, helsinki' if i take one now	17:05
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Jaffa	lardman: liblocation and libaddress	17:06
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vesa	libaddress doesn't seem to be in the docs	17:07
sarower	g_signal_connect (G_OBJECT (appdata.normal_image_box), "button_press_event", G_CALLBACK (add_camera_screen), &appdata);	17:08
sarower	getting appdata null here	17:08
sarower	add_camera_screen(GtkWidget *widget, gpointer data)	17:08
sarower	any help!	17:08
sarower	data is null here	17:09
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lardman	Jaffa: thanks	17:10
Jaffa	vesa: probably not!	17:10
lardman	are there any headers for it?	17:10
* lardman is at work on a Windows box so can't look		17:11
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Ceron^	hi, i heard n900 is shipping	17:12
Ceron^	is it true? :P	17:13
aquatix	yep	17:13
Ceron^	did i hafto preorder 10 months ago to get it?	17:13
Ceron^	now	17:13
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Suurorca	I suppose "shipping" means it'll take a few days until the distributos get it and a few days still until stores have it in stock :/	17:14
lardman	how do I get into here? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/nokia-binaries/	17:15
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lardman	I need some strange token iirc	17:15
Stskeeps	tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula	17:16
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lardman	thanks	17:16
qwerty12	lardman: If you wish to browse it: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=338238&postcount=14	17:16
lardman	ah, ideal	17:16
GiantTalkingCow	So according to Reuters, the N900 has started shipping. About time, I say.	17:18
lardman	hmm, no libaddress in there	17:19
* ccooke idly considers porting mutt to the n900		17:21
ccooke	with notifications :-)	17:21
RST38h	ccooke: Alpine!!!	17:21
ccooke	that shouldn't be at all difficult	17:21
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ccooke	RST38h: heh. I used pine for years. It took me ages to switch to mutt. But I think mutt's a better client overall... sorry :-)	17:21
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mgedmin	mutt rules	17:22
frals	(is this where i promote outlook?)	17:22
mgedmin	frals, if you want to get a lot of free rotten fruit, yes	17:23
* lardman prepares the pots of burning oil		17:23
frals	:D	17:23
qwerty12	cough	17:23
qwerty12	lardman: I remember your client of choice	17:23
lardman	well yeah, I'm stuck with it tho	17:23
wazd	who did transmission for fremantle btw?	17:23
* qwerty12 puts his hand up		17:24
wazd	qwerty12: any wish to make it look cool? :)	17:24
RST38h	yess yess	17:24
* mgedmin feels cheated		17:24
RST38h	Although Transmission already looks pretty good	17:24
mgedmin	in amsterdam they demoed transmission plugin for canola 2	17:25
kalikianatoli	sarower, where is appdate allocated/ declared?	17:25
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mgedmin	I installed canola 2 and it isn't there!	17:25
mgedmin	not released yet probably	17:25
qwerty12	wazd: Sure. :) Only change I have made to the main window recently is to kill off its Filterbar and shove the filters in the menu and the searchbar was added to the toolbar :)	17:25
kalikianatoli	sarower, you can't pass it if it's a struct* appdata inside a function	17:25
kalikianatoli	if it's a struct appdata, even	17:25
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* lardman wishes for an online tool to search the repos		17:30
RST38h	lardman: Packrat	17:30
RST38h	lardman: http://ageofikon.info/packrat/	17:30
lardman	nice, thanks :)	17:30
hrw	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U	17:31
wazd	qwerty12: I'll check it in SDK and see what can be improved :)	17:31
qwerty12	wazd: Thank you :)	17:31
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lardman	hmm, I could have sworn flite was available for Diablo, anyone know where it came from?	17:33
qwerty12	It wasn't. People used the Chinook version	17:33
lardman	oh ok	17:33
RST38h	chinook, diablo, who cares? same thing	17:33
qwerty12	Chinook version was ported by gnuite who uploaded it to Extras in the times when there was no autobuilder and people were free to upload stuff without source	17:34
qwerty12	(in free, that is)	17:34
* lardman feeling the love for speaking and listening phones after seeing Android in action		17:34
hrw	YES!	17:34
hrw	Discounted Devices Program: N900 250.00 EUR	17:34
hrw	Add to Cart	17:34
lardman	:)	17:34
ccooke	oooh, that's a nice deal	17:34
mgedmin	cool, I thought it was supposed to be 300 EUR	17:35
hrw	now time to read nda ;(	17:35
lardman	hrw: you still involved with OE?	17:35
hrw	mgedmin: 50% of price (about 300eur dependly on market)	17:35
hrw	lardman: I live from OE and Poky	17:35
penguinbait	you have to sign NDA to order dev unit?	17:35
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lardman	hrw: your links at the top of this page are about half broken: http://openembedded.org/	17:36
GiantTalkingCow	And what's the 'Discounted Devices Program'? Dev discount?	17:36
mgedmin	yes	17:36
* qwerty12 has still yet to order his DDP N900...		17:36
penguinbait	you can get at dell for under 500US and its 371US	17:36
penguinbait	its not a 50% saving in the US	17:37
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mgedmin	hey, _I_ still don't see N900 in the forum nokia eStore	17:37
qwerty12	mgedmin: I had to do some weird shit like going to Pro first, and then going back to the eStore	17:37
lardman	hrw: where do I find the OE metadata tree? Is there still a way of browsing it from online?	17:37
mgedmin	they make us jump through hoops?	17:37
Stskeeps	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U <- nokia marketing scares me	17:37
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* mgedmin wonders if he should maybe log in		17:38
mgedmin	that worked!	17:38
mgedmin	duh	17:38
hrw	lardman: http://cgit.openembedded.org/	17:38
lardman	thanks	17:38
hrw	mgedmin: logged in?	17:38
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mgedmin	yes	17:39
Ceron^	http://photofile.ru/photo/fishki_net/3667506/81977817.jpg -> http://kuvat2.iltasanomat.fi/iltasanomat/iDoc/1757489-kukateki.jpg	17:39
Ceron^	finnish metro water flood	17:39
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GiantTalkingCow	Stskeeps: The marketing for the new Motorola Droid here in the US is even scarier. It's like an old Sega commercial on meth.	17:40
RST38h	Besides, Droid shows the Eye of Sauron on bootup	17:40
Stskeeps	this would have been great on halloween	17:41
penguinbait	I see what you mean Stskeeps, wtf	17:41
GiantTalkingCow	I've been on the fence in regards to a smartphone for a while, but seeing as the n900 is being sold unlocked in quite a few places, I'll likely end up going for it. The data and voice plans that most of the normal smartphones come with are insanely overpriced.	17:42
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Suurorca	they could have made that ad just sooo much better :/	17:42
penguinbait	will the ddp program still end at end of year, or was it also extended?	17:44
Ceron^	hrw: where to get it for 250 euro?	17:45
Ceron^	!!!	17:45
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penguinbait	byt the way, I took some medication earlier, am I the only one seeing the Giant Talking Cow?	17:45
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Stskeeps	depends, what kind of meds?	17:45
Stskeeps	:P	17:45
Ceron^	hrw: tell me please	17:46
hrw	Ceron^: n900 discount program offered for that price for me	17:46
javispedro	penguinbait: you too? )	17:46
Ceron^	hrw: what discount program?	17:46
mgedmin	Ceron^, go back in time, accumulate lots of maemo.org karma, get invited to the developer discount program	17:46
hrw	Ceron^: if you did not know about program then you dont get	17:46
Ceron^	isee	17:46
GiantTalkingCow	A talking cow? Nonsense, there's no such thing!	17:46
mgedmin	the invitations went out a couple of months ago	17:46
mgedmin	or maybe one month	17:46
Ceron^	i call that bullshit	17:46
Ceron^	:l	17:46
Ceron^	580euro vs 250 euro...	17:47
Ceron^	seriously i dont like this marketing at all..	17:47
hrw	mgedmin: less then month even	17:47
hrw	Ceron^: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32951	17:47
Ceron^	yeh so if i posted alot at memo.org i would have got discount codes :\	17:48
Ceron^	maemo	17:48
lardman	quite possibly	17:48
GiantTalkingCow	You guys in Europe get screwed over on all sorts of high-tech gadget pricing, and not just by American firms, either. :I	17:48
Ceron^	true	17:49
Ceron^	anyone know the cheapest europian store	17:49
Ceron^	to buy n900 from	17:49
lardman	buy it with a contract, you'll need one anyway	17:49
javispedro	Ceron^: well yeah, if you posted a few posts in tmo, uplaoded 3 apps to mo/d, filled some bugs in bugzilla and mailed some nonsense to the -users mailing list you'd have a discount.	17:49
Ceron^	lardman: i dont i got company simcard	17:49
wirelessdreamer	I've been having trouble getting scratchbox to connect to the net when I change netconnections, the host can ping, but scratchbox can't resolv anything	17:49
wirelessdreamer	i've checked resolv.conf and route	17:50
GiantTalkingCow	lardman: Not really. It's being sold unlocked here in the US, so all you need is a SIM card to put in, and you're fine.	17:50
lardman	well invest the money you'd otherwise spend on a contract then ;)	17:50
wirelessdreamer	any other ideas?	17:50
Ceron^	lardman: anyway, where to find the cheapest price	17:50
lardman	GiantTalkingCow: yeah, but you need a contract to use it, so may as well get a discounted phone + contract	17:50
Ceron^	one would think you guys would know :)	17:50
Ceron^	this channel is full of n900 hungry people. There should be some good links	17:51
lardman	no idea	17:51
lardman	there were a few threads on TMO iirc	17:51
javispedro	This channel is full of n900 owners instead ... :P	17:51
GiantTalkingCow	lardman: I'd rather pay the full price and use my existing SIM. I'm not fond of contracts.	17:51
RST38h	javispedro: loan recipients rather	17:51
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lardman	GiantTalkingCow: just have to work out the costs and go the cheapest way	17:51
javispedro	RST38h: touché.	17:51
wazd	qwerty12: well, plenty of work to do in fact :D	17:52
* qwerty12 whistles		17:52
tru	did you guys see the n900 ad?	17:53
tru	not sure if I am going to be scared or awed.	17:53
Stskeeps	tru: i think it's meant to make the iphone marketing guys piss their pants..	17:53
Stskeeps	:P	17:53
wirelessdreamer	tru: have a link?	17:54
wazd	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxiOKKF721U	17:54
tru	http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-ad-suggests-a-history-of-mental-illness/	17:54
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javispedro	http://maemo.nokia.com/ friggin penguins with friggin lasers!!!	17:54
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mikhas	wow	17:56
lardman	hmm, not available in the Uk store anyway	17:56
mikhas	great picture	17:56
mikhas	do the penguins attack maemo?	17:56
wazd	wowjezuschrist!	17:56
* wazd needs new pants		17:57
* mgedmin at work, wants to watch the ad, but must resist		17:57
mikhas	or the product launch?	17:57
javispedro	mikhas: lol	17:57
javispedro	o	17:57
javispedro	k	17:57
javispedro	wtf	17:57
javispedro	is with this ad at 2:00	17:57
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javispedro	"I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm not sleeping in the same room as my N900 any more. It's going to be sleeping inside a safe. In concrete." lol	17:58
RST38h	javispedro: how about adding n900 to SCP? ;)	17:59
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yuizy	javispedro: ;D	17:59
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javispedro	did they hire Family Guy guionists for the ad or what	18:00
mgedmin	hey, openssh autostarts just fine!	18:00
mgedmin	why doesn't avahi-daemon???	18:00
mgedmin	dash in init.d script name?	18:00
VDVsx	javispedro, nice, n900 + free handset : http://tienda.nokia.es/nokia-es/product.aspx?sku=10195587&culture=es-ES	18:00
Stskeeps	event.d?	18:01
Stskeeps	:P	18:01
zaheerm	is there an issue with avahi and ip address/network changing etc.	18:01
javispedro	Stskeeps: oh, they're not using in sysvinit compat mode? score an extra point for maemo	18:01
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mgedmin	VDVsx, ITYM headset	18:02
wazd	cool CG btw	18:02
wazd	for youtube quality at least	18:02
mgedmin	ah, openssh-server ships an event.d file	18:02
javispedro	VDVsx: saw it (btw they still say 1 GiB _RAM_). Even though if I get the DDP one...	18:02
* mgedmin rubs hands excitedly		18:02
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RST38h	Somebody kill the anonymous guy!	18:03
RST38h	He is going nuts!	18:03
GiantTalkingCow	?	18:04
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dmj726	So apparently they make n900s out of crazy people.	18:04
dmj726	n900 is people	18:04
Stskeeps	dmj726++	18:04
VDVsx	mgedmin, yes, lol	18:04
javispedro	:)	18:05
javispedro	insane people infected with some random spacetime distorting virus	18:06
RST38h	javis: It is the Tentacled One and his diet of human brains	18:06
javispedro	ok, I want more perverted ads like this one	18:07
javispedro	the next one we need more gore	18:07
RST38h	The victims are still alive, but their skulls are empty, funny, isn't it? =)	18:07
dmj726	It's known as penguinitis and it has an unfortunate tendency to infect open source programmers.	18:07
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javispedro	I hope it features the Umbrella corp logo	18:07
Stskeeps	and cause penguins to shoot lasers	18:07
javispedro	lol	18:08
javispedro	"Nokia drives you mad"	18:08
javispedro	:)	18:08
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Stskeeps	penguinbait: council member attention needed in #maemo-meeting	18:09
Suurorca	h, nice Idea. I just might have to create an umbrella bootvideo for it ;D	18:09
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Ceron^	The Nokia N900 will be available in retail stores in November with an estimated retail price of EUR 500, excluding sales taxes and subsidies.	18:10
Ceron^	100 euro taxes :(	18:10
mikhas	-500 euro subsidies, though	18:11
mikhas	that's what I expect, at least =)	18:11
vesa	lardman: location problem fixed. missing extern "C" around the location includes	18:12
javispedro	"I guess it had to happen eventually. Some Emos have found work in the advertising trades, and here's their idea of branding and product promotion. God help us when they get elected to public office..." today I find Engadget's comments quite entertaining... maybe because of meds :)	18:12
vesa	i hear this might be what you might call a 'shortcoming' of the headers	18:12
vesa	we use a c++ compiler and not c...	18:12
dmj726	I suspect that this ad may only appeal to people who already like the n900	18:12
lardman	vesa: cool	18:12
mgedmin	vesa, 'shortcoming' is arguable; the API is for C, not for C++	18:13
vesa	well that's true, but it's quite a simple fix and so far everything else works with c++	18:13
mgedmin	although I do see your point of view	18:14
nomis	mhm, I suspect that I just have to live with a QWERTY-keyboard when using the discounted devices program, right?	18:14
Stskeeps	put a label on it and select other hw keyboard type?	18:15
Stskeeps	:P	18:15
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javispedro	or try to create a bastardized layout where at least the symbols match	18:15
javispedro	which is what I plan to do	18:16
nomis	mhm.	18:16
javispedro	(match with what's printed on the device, I mean)	18:16
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wazd	qwerty12: ok, I've downloaded new Transmission look from the Astral DB, now I need to draw it :)	18:22
qwerty12	Cool, thank you :)	18:22
VDVsx	Jaffa, humm, your pymaemo test is interesting, did you tried to do any performance tests ?	18:23
Jaffa	VDVsx: Not properly, no	18:23
Jaffa	Just gut feel	18:24
VDVsx	runtime performance tests should be easy to do ;)	18:24
lizardo	Jaffa: I'll answer you there on the list, for the records :)	18:24
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crashanddie	Best algorithm to test N900 performance: every 10ns, launch a new thread that generates 50 md5sums of microtime * Integer.parse(substr(/dev/random, 0, 10)) (preferably in Java)	18:27
mgedmin	Jaffa, did you test that bind-mounting init script on the device?	18:27
mgedmin	because I'm baffled now: do init.d scripts work or not?	18:27
Andy80	hi all	18:27
mgedmin	they kinda should, but for avahi-daemon they don't	18:27
Jaffa	mgedmin: Yes, I did test it on device.	18:28
wazd	wooo, modern warfare 2 is out!	18:28
Jaffa	mgedmin: rc2.d?	18:29
mgedmin	btw there's some kind of syntax for doing bind mounts straight from /etc/fstab, but I never remember it	18:29
Jaffa	mgedmin: Oh, cool	18:29
javispedro	/device /mount/point auto bind	18:29
mgedmin	$ grep -v ^# /etc/rc2.d/S50avahi-daemon \|head	18:29
mgedmin	touch /tmp/avahi-daemon-init.d-script-was-run	18:29
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mgedmin	after boot I look in /tmp, and nothing	18:29
javispedro	even though I don't know if busybox's mount -a accepts it	18:29
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Jaffa	mgedmin: I'll look closer this evening. Perhaps I've played tricks on myself	18:33
mgedmin	I'm pretty sure _I_ missed something, but so far I haven't figured out what	18:33
mgedmin	some run-rc.d variants may be unhappy with dashes in filenames maybe	18:34
Jaffa	Mebbe.	18:34
Jaffa	Or something upstarty needs to be prodded?	18:34
mgedmin	S20osso-applet-display disagrees	18:34
mgedmin	it's possible the whole /etc/init.d is a big fat decoy	18:34
* Jaffa goes to get Stockholm's #1 bus from Stora Essingen to, err, best check.		18:35
mgedmin	but /etc/event.d/rcS says "This task runs the old sysv-rc startup scripts."	18:35
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mgedmin	ha!	18:36
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mgedmin	/etc/init.d/rcS ignores .d and does everything manually	18:36
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Jaffa	mgedmin: Doh!	18:38
Jaffa	mgedmin: So, we need to put something in /etc/event.d	18:39
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mgedmin	who maintains avahi-daemon?	18:39
mgedmin	I don't think Utopia Maintenance Team <pkg-utopia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org> will be happy to get maemo-specific queries	18:40
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mgedmin	and thanks to docpurge I can't look at /usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/changelog.Debian.gz	18:41
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qwerty12	mgedmin: The version in extras-devel was uploaded by "jhs_s", if that is any help...	18:41
greenfly	wow. I didn't realize maemo5 used so much upstart	18:41
mgedmin	/etc/event.d/sshd is a nice role model	18:42
mgedmin	the bits with mkdir /var/ ought to be included in the screen package	18:42
greenfly	but yeah, I don't see the old backwards-compatible sysV upstart scripts in /etc/event.d	18:42
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greenfly	other than rcS, which just starts one shell script	18:43
greenfly	so it looks like everyone will have to use upstart	18:43
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greenfly	which honestly, this is a good platform to make that shift	18:45
mgedmin	cutting edge tech	18:46
javispedro	well.	18:46
mgedmin	well, not really	18:46
javispedro	does ssh only start up when net is up or something like that?	18:46
mgedmin	upstart 0.3.8-56+0m5	18:46
mgedmin	ancient!	18:46
mgedmin	karmic comes with 0.6.3-10	18:47
greenfly	heh, yeah upstart came into play with Ubuntu 6.10 IIRC but most people didn't realize it was there	18:47
mgedmin	/etc/event.d is obsolete and no longer supported, iirc, upstart now uses a different config syntax and files in /etc/init/*.conf	18:47
greenfly	since all it really managed (besides PID 1) was ttys, and running sysinit for different runlevels	18:47
greenfly	to make it more confusing there's the /etc/event.replace.d	18:48
mgedmin	problem is: now I can't copy and paste upstart config files from my laptop to my n900	18:50
greenfly	ahh, you have to backport them to the old syntax?	18:50
mgedmin	yes	18:50
greenfly	:/	18:50
mgedmin	and there are semantic differences too	18:50
mgedmin	e.g. on the n900 /etc/event.d/dbus has "exec /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system --nofork"	18:51
mgedmin	on karmic /etc/init/dbus.conf has "exec dbus-daemon --system --fork"	18:51
mgedmin	ah, there's also "expect fork"	18:51
mgedmin	interesting	18:51
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* javispedro ponders the DDP		19:10
* mgedmin wonders about the taxes and duties		19:10
javispedro	that too.	19:11
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javispedro	do they ship from finland?	19:13
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* mgedmin just reproduced 6004		19:18
javispedro	bug #6004	19:18
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable	19:18
mgedmin	when they ship and how long they travel is another very good question	19:18
mgedmin	would be fun if the n900 arrived home before I did	19:18
javispedro	the site says "3 bussines days"	19:18
javispedro	er.. don't mind the typo	19:19
mgedmin	the forum nokia estore?	19:19
javispedro	mgedmin: yep	19:19
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mgedmin	I didn't notice	19:19
* javispedro looks		19:19
javispedro	"Usually ships within three business days."	19:19
mgedmin	"usually" is a good word	19:20
mgedmin	how often do they ship just-released n900s?	19:21
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javispedro	I'd assume it's copied and pasted from all the other "device developers" items we don't have access to.	19:21
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mgedmin	I assume it means "we will try to ship within three days, but if we can't, don't go back complaining that we promised"	19:24
wazd	javispedro: hah, they can't even ship me an e-mail so I wouldn't expect anything :D	19:24
* mgedmin always found the phrase "shiping an email" very funny		19:25
mgedmin	mental picture always goes to an ocean liner carrying a cardboard box with a printout of an email inside	19:25
greenfly	you need an ocean liner because the rest of it is full of other cardboard boxes full of printouts of spam :)	19:26
lcuk	i always see a little dinghy with an overworked grunt rowing slowly across the pacific	19:26
javispedro	mgedmin: well, the alternative to putting "usually" is adding a load of "standard disclaimers"	19:26
mgedmin	what do they use for shipping, anyway?	19:26
javispedro	wazd: yeah, that scaries me.	19:26
mgedmin	the post office?	19:26
javispedro	mgedmin: DHL	19:26
javispedro	btw	19:28
javispedro	Since I'm not a company	19:29
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javispedro	how I am supposed to "agree" to the NDA	19:29
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mgedmin	without reading it, probably	19:34
javispedro	actually mentioning it is forbidden too.	19:34
mgedmin	mentioning what?	19:34
ShadowJK	lol	19:35
javispedro	actually, the entire NDA is rather moot for mortals like me.	19:35
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LurkerXXX_	The N900 is finally shipping. :)	19:54
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GiantTalkingCow	Yep, heard about it a few hours ago. I figure I'll try one out sometime this week, then decide whether or not to get it. I'm mostly concerned about the keyboard and its performance.	19:55
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mgedmin	compared to a laptop, both suck	19:56
mgedmin	compared to a n810, both are stellar	19:56
cosmo_	it can't say it's better than n810's.. feels pretty same	19:57
mgedmin	sudo dpkg -i procps*.deb -- good idea, bad idea, Very Bad Idea ?	19:57
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mgedmin	wish I could test apt-get, but I'm too lazy to look up how to set up an apt repo on the filesystem	19:57
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mgedmin	uploading procps to extras-devel blindly: good idea, bad idea, treasonous shoot-on-sight idea?	19:58
mgedmin	worst thing that could happen: somebody installs it and removes busybox plus a few hundred meg of absolutely essential system packages, device is bricked	19:58
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zaheerm	mgedmin, flasher will fix it :)	19:59
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mgedmin	as soon as the official image appears somewhere	19:59
mgedmin	anybody seen an image?	19:59
mgedmin	yeah, me neither	20:00
zaheerm	maybe it is on some torrent by now ;)	20:00
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mgedmin	bugs.maemo.org doesn't have a version for it either	20:00
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mgedmin	maybe they're shipping OS-less N900s	20:00
toggles_w	hmm.. amazon claim they can deliver it tomorrow..	20:00
LurkerXXX_	somehow I doubt that	20:01
ShadowJK	procps on N8x0 makes things go kaboom iirc	20:01
toggles_w	yeah, me too	20:01
LurkerXXX_	but they should be able to deliver within a couple more days.	20:01
javispedro	mgedmin: don't upload logic bombs to extras-devel please	20:01
toggles_w	newegg says 14/11 so yeah, should be soon	20:01
javispedro	it still makes me sad when people say "extras-devel is dangerous because there's newer versions of libs that won't go into -stable"	20:02
mgedmin	javispedro, I'm currently trying to determine whether it's a logic bomb or not	20:02
mgedmin	without exploding my n900	20:02
mgedmin	in the process	20:02
mgedmin	hey, I've got a repo at mg.pov.lt/770!	20:02
mgedmin	for precisely this kind of private minefield reasons	20:02
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* javispedro can't imagine which qa testing plan needs to upload the candidate bombs to a online repo		20:03
ShadowJK	mgedmin, I think you need to compile it so that the utilities get an extra prefix, like for example "real", so that top becomes realtop, etc, and then the package dependencies, provides and conflicts need to be fixed up...	20:03
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mgedmin	aaugh	20:07
mgedmin	how do I open a URL from the command line?	20:07
mgedmin	magic dbus message?	20:07
mgedmin	oh, browser --url	20:07
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mikkov__	Nokia Software Updater has a new firmware	20:11
mgedmin	hmmm	20:12
mgedmin	is that the windows thing?	20:12
Stskeeps	more interestingly, does tablets-dev.nokia.com? :P	20:12
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mgedmin	Stskeeps, xchat doesn't make urls clickable when you omit the http://	20:12
mikkov__	it's the windows thing, yes	20:13
qwerty12	mikkov_: Thanks for the heads up. Do you know if it tries to flash the eMMC?	20:13
mikkov__	file size is 161.4 MB	20:13
mikkov__	installing it now, let's see	20:13
mikkov__	didn't read all warnings :)	20:14
* mgedmin riots		20:14
zaheerm	mikkov_, :)	20:14
zaheerm	mikkov_, you are our guinea pig	20:14
mgedmin	oh, hey, any ideas whether the new firmware will be available via SSU?	20:14
qwerty12	Doesn't sound like it: The RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.40-3.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin file I have is 235MB	20:14
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mgedmin	poor compression?	20:15
qwerty12	RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-10_PR_LEGACY_TRUE_ARM.bin is 161MB	20:15
mikkov__	version is 1.2009.41.11	20:15
qwerty12	So I guess the eMMC doesn't get flashed, which is good news for me :)	20:15
mgedmin	that's the amsterdam one, right?	20:15
mikkov__	version is 1.2009.42.11	20:15
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zaheerm	mikkov_, interesting...	20:15
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mgedmin	mikkov_, you anticipated my question	20:16
mgedmin	woohoo, nice!	20:16
mgedmin	maybe	20:16
mikkov__	magic :)	20:16
mgedmin	yes, nice!	20:16
mgedmin	sudo apt-get install procps: The following packages will be REMOVED: busybox-symlinks-procps	20:16
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: the eMMC is regional	20:16
mgedmin	they made a package with nothing but symlinks	20:16
timeless_mbp	the US image is 1.6G iirc	20:16
qwerty12	mikkov_: I'll update my device tommorow if your device doesn't get killed today :p	20:16
mikkov__	:P	20:17
timeless_mbp	other images are considerably smaller	20:17
qwerty12	*tomorrow	20:17
timeless_mbp	btw, have people plugged their n900's into normal computers?	20:17
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mgedmin	okay, the BAD thing about my procps is that it only ships kill and ps	20:17
javispedro	"normal computers" as in blessed by gates?	20:17
mgedmin	where's uptime, pkill, watch, free, pgrep, top?	20:17
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timeless_mbp	javispedro: OS X, Windows, or Ubuntu 9.04+	20:18
mgedmin	ah, in /usr/bin, where they belong	20:18
mgedmin	false alarm	20:18
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mgedmin	timeless_mbp, ubuntu 9.10	20:18
greenfly	timeless_mbp: I've connected it to an ubuntu 9.10 machine	20:18
mgedmin	any specific questions?	20:18
mgedmin	I've got it plugged it right now	20:18
timeless_mbp	what do you see on the desktop and do you like it?	20:18
mgedmin	hm, I asked it not to mount	20:19
timeless_mbp	...	20:19
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greenfly	if you tell it mass storage mode the photo manager will fire up	20:19
mgedmin	I remember seeing a cellphone icon	20:19
timeless_mbp	did you like it?	20:19
mgedmin	it was a very cellphone'y cellphone	20:19
greenfly	In my case I didn't want to upload any photos	20:19
greenfly	so it sorta gets in the way, but I can always turn that off	20:19
mgedmin	I'd rather have an icon that looks like a n900	20:19
timeless_mbp	the photo manager bit isn't my fault	20:19
mgedmin	which ought to be possible	20:19
timeless_mbp	wait, what!?	20:20
greenfly	yeah, understood	20:20
timeless_mbp	screenshot please	20:20
timeless_mbp	because well...	20:20
timeless_mbp	screenshot first, story later	20:20
mgedmin	screenshot of what?	20:20
timeless_mbp	the picture you see on the desktop	20:20
* timeless_mbp grumbles		20:20
* timeless_mbp will probably kill someone		20:20
* timeless_mbp worked very hard on that thing		20:20
timeless_mbp	it was supposed to be a very shiny n900 icon	20:20
timeless_mbp	and they had a month to integrate it	20:21
mikkov__	OK, this Software Updater is crap	20:21
timeless_mbp	mikkov_: what happened?	20:21
zaheerm	mikkov_, it bricked the phone?	20:21
qwerty12	timeless_mbp: That N900 icons shows up on the Windows running computers I've connected my N900 to	20:21
mikkov__	it crashed when it was supposed to start flashing'	20:21
timeless_mbp	qwerty12: screenshot please	20:21
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, you'll kill somebody, since now I see a generic "document" icon	20:21
timeless_mbp	there were two rounds of a picture	20:21
mgedmin	maybe what I remember was with ubuntu 9.04 before I upgraded	20:21
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timeless_mbp	mgedmin: there's a .n900.ico on the root of the volume	20:22
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lardman	oh great debian packagers, are you here?	20:22
qwerty12	timeless_mbp: sec	20:22
timeless_mbp	open it and see if it gives a shiny thing or a black thing	20:22
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, http://mg.pov.lt/n900-icon-not-worky.png	20:22
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: is that a 770 serving it?	20:22
mgedmin	nah, office adsl line with puny uplink	20:23
zaheerm	more like an s40 device	20:23
mikkov__	let's see if I can resurrect this thing	20:23
sp3000	how about progressive png ;)	20:23
timeless_mbp	or icon at top of desktop...	20:23
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* javispedro contributes to overloaded mgedmin's adsl line		20:24
zaheerm	#maemo effect?	20:24
mgedmin	2-line paste flood warning!	20:24
mgedmin	mg@platonas:/media/Nokia N900 $ sha1sum .n900.ico	20:24
mgedmin	dbd690b709a35aaa7136144ad44439041d633110 .n900.ico	20:24
javispedro	since when gnome cares about .ico files?	20:24
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, all my viewers say my .n900.ico is broken or invalid	20:24
luke-jr	mgedmin: you just violated the copyright terms on that icon!	20:24
* qwerty12 bans mgedmin		20:24
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sp3000	doesn't the warning make it 3?	20:24
timeless_mbp	sp3000: fax header page counts have always been fun	20:25
timeless_mbp	btw, the gnome message text is buggy	20:25
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timeless_mbp	we're debating filing bugs	20:25
timeless_mbp	'what' => 'the	20:25
timeless_mbp	[f]	20:25
luke-jr	lol	20:25
mgedmin	ooh, gimp can open it and shows a bunch of pretty images	20:25
javispedro	that'd be my guess.	20:26
mgedmin	I'd say gnome/ubuntu bug	20:26
javispedro	the N900.ico is set through an autorun.inf file	20:26
javispedro	isn't it?	20:26
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: you need a newer less lame version of nautilus or something	20:26
timeless_mbp	if the images are very shiny, then it's just your lame nautilus	20:26
mgedmin	[autorun]	20:26
mgedmin	icon=.n900.ico	20:26
lardman	does anyone know how to replace dh_quilt_unpatch for our version of dh?	20:26
javispedro	and when did someone start parsing autorun.inf in nautilus?	20:26
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: ok... so, as long as it's mostly shiny on osx+windows	20:26
timeless_mbp	javispedro: ages ago	20:26
javispedro	oh, I missed the big flamewar then :(	20:27
timeless_mbp	you can search for bugs i've filed on it to see references to the code	20:27
timeless_mbp	we had a mini flamewar internally when someone saw my first draft	20:27
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timeless_mbp	sp3000 + myself were like "if gnome didn't want to do this, then it wouldn't have added support for it, DUH"	20:27
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dmj726	what's a good rss reader for n900?	20:28
* javispedro finds out nautilus will actually run autorun.sh files on cdroms		20:28
greenfly	doesn't it come with one?	20:28
luke-jr	lol	20:29
qwerty12	timeless_mbp: My battery is low and the N900 is refusing to export MyDocs over USB...	20:29
mgedmin	I try to use google reader mobile version, with great patience and much unhappiness	20:29
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greenfly	yeah google reader on the n900 isn't exactly there yet	20:30
timeless_mbp	dmj726: reader.google.com	20:30
dmj726	so it does	20:30
timeless_mbp	/m	20:30
timeless_mbp	or /x	20:30
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javispedro	http://www.ethek.com/wp-content/uploads/windows7-device-stage-1.png	20:30
greenfly	you /should/ be able to load the full version, and you can, but the UI pops up the URL bar every time it refreshes	20:30
dmj726	the rss reader is google reader or something else?	20:31
timeless_mbp	javispedro: what is that?	20:31
timeless_mbp	dmj726: we use liverea or something	20:31
* mgedmin didn't even try the bundled rss reader, maybe /he should		20:31
* dmj726 has just discovered evolution-rss and is liking it.		20:31
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: i wouldn't bother :)	20:31
mgedmin	here goes nothing: sudo apt-get install procps	20:31
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mgedmin	oh, ubuntu...	20:32
timeless_mbp	https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595027	20:32
povbot	Bug 595027: was not found.	20:32
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mgedmin	right-clicking on the n900 gives me choices: eject, unmount, and safely remove drive	20:32
timeless_mbp	points to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154549	20:32
povbot	Bug 154549: was not found.	20:32
mgedmin	WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE???	20:32
timeless_mbp	unmount doesn't eject	20:32
mgedmin	povbot, stupid, that was a gnome bugzilla, not the maemo bugzilla	20:33
povbot	mgedmin: Error: "stupid," is not a valid command.	20:33
timeless_mbp	eject unmounts and then tells usb "i stopped using you"	20:33
javispedro	timeless: one of those new paintjob features in windows 7, "device stage".	20:33
timeless_mbp	javispedro: do you have an n900?	20:33
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, and safely remove?	20:33
javispedro	timeless: no, that's a microsoft mockup	20:33
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: from a power perspective, unmounting doesn't stop using the service	20:33
mgedmin	three different options are at least one too much	20:33
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timeless_mbp	so the device still has 500mA power	20:33
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timeless_mbp	i'm not actually sure how eject and safely remove differ	20:34
timeless_mbp	i could be wrong	20:34
timeless_mbp	you probably usually want safely remove	20:34
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timeless_mbp	perhaps my description is for that	20:34
timeless_mbp	conceptually...	20:34
timeless_mbp	eject should work on the microSD that's in the back	20:34
timeless_mbp	such that if you eject, you should be able to safely remove the back cover	20:34
timeless_mbp	swap microSDs	20:34
timeless_mbp	restore the back cover	20:35
timeless_mbp	and somehow have it see the new microSD card	20:35
mgedmin	hmm	20:35
timeless_mbp	safely remove should not do that	20:35
timeless_mbp	since it would depower the device and stop using the service	20:35
timeless_mbp	unmount shouldn't either	20:35
timeless_mbp	because it wouldn't tell the device that it unmounted	20:35
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timeless_mbp	unmount is basically an OS impl detail that isn't exposed via the USB protocol	20:35
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, I'm REALLY not impressed by Forum Nokia.	20:35
timeless_mbp	anyway, that would be the technical explanation of what those things should do	20:36
timeless_mbp	no idea what they actually do do	20:36
timeless_mbp	https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154549	20:36
povbot	Bug 154549: was not found.	20:36
ShadowJK	I think some windows people once complained that linux "Safely Remove" didn't cut power to the USB device	20:36
* timeless_mbp kicks povbot		20:36
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mgedmin	well, after doing Eject the icon disappears from the desktop	20:36
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timeless_mbp	mgedmin: try pulling the usb plug	20:36
mgedmin	after that when you're trying to safely remove from Computer, you get this nice error	20:36
timeless_mbp	if the device whines "you didn't safely remove"	20:36
mgedmin	Error SYNCHRONIZE CACHE for /dev/sdb: Success sense buffer empty; Error STOP UNIT for /dev/sdb: No such file or directory	20:36
* timeless_mbp rotfl		20:36
mgedmin	I was just wondering if it were possible to kick it into "charging-only" mode	20:37
mgedmin	so I could access my files	20:37
mgedmin	from the n900	20:37
timeless_mbp	so...	20:37
mgedmin	unplug & replug will work	20:37
timeless_mbp	you never want to use charging only	20:37
mgedmin	I don't?	20:37
timeless_mbp	that's 100mA	20:37
timeless_mbp	you always want PC Suite	20:37
mgedmin	this is very very interesting	20:37
timeless_mbp	that's 500mA and no storage lock	20:37
mgedmin	tell us more	20:37
timeless_mbp	the USB protocol is basically this:	20:37
mgedmin	why is charging only only 100mA?	20:37
timeless_mbp	a device walks into a bar	20:37
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: well, "A caballo regalado.." (according to wiktionary translation "Never look a gift horse in the mouth")	20:37
sp3000	CLANGGG!	20:38
timeless_mbp	the bar says "howdy stranger, here's enough water for you to use so you can indicate what you want to do"	20:38
sp3000	clatter	20:38
timeless_mbp	"until you indicate what you can do, i won't feed you more"	20:38
timeless_mbp	"if you take more, that's theft"	20:38
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, not much of a gift for US people, though, sadly.	20:38
timeless_mbp	100mA is sufficient to get a device barely up	20:38
timeless_mbp	anyway...	20:38
Mek	but if my n900 is in charge-only mode, it is already seen as an usb network device by my computer, doesn't that indicate that it already uses more than just the base 100mA?	20:38
timeless_mbp	the device says "Hey, I speak Mass Storage and <PC Suite>"	20:38
mgedmin	what's the battery capacity?	20:38
ShadowJK	1340-ish as new	20:39
timeless_mbp	if you use PC Suite, then you're offering Networking	20:39
mgedmin	I could fully charge my device with 4 hours of "charging only"	20:39
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Mek	it offsers networking in charging-only mode already	20:39
timeless_mbp	oh	20:39
konttori	Jaffa: have you seen the release video of n900 by peter schneider?	20:39
timeless_mbp	we might be cheating actually	20:39
konttori	http://jkontherun.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-now-shipping-with-new-enhancements/	20:39
timeless_mbp	iirc we did :)	20:39
mgedmin	also, in charging only the PC sees a usb mass storage device with two ejected drives	20:39
konttori	Look into 00:36	20:39
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: iirc you're not supposed to change your USB topography	20:40
mgedmin	I think what PC Suite does is modprobe g_nokia	20:40
mgedmin	which enables usb0 networking	20:40
timeless_mbp	you can say "I'm a hub with 3 ports"	20:40
mgedmin	maybe it never goes away when you unplug, which would explain why Mek sees his n900 as a network device	20:40
timeless_mbp	and then "Ooh, port 1 got another device which is a hub with 5 ports"	20:40
qwerty12_N810	mgedmin: There's a script somewhere on the device, pcsuite_enable.sh	20:40
timeless_mbp	but you can't say "I've changed my mind, I'm no longer a hub with 3 ports, i'm now a hub with 5 ports"	20:40
mikkov__	Windows updater is simply broken.	20:41
javispedro	well, you can simulate being unplugged and replugged	20:41
timeless_mbp	mikkov_: file a bug ;-)	20:41
javispedro	thats what my older palm did	20:41
javispedro	to switch between mass storage / serial cable mode	20:41
mikkov__	I'll have to dig the file and use the linux flasher	20:41
mgedmin	interesting! pcsuite-enable.sh does /sbin/rmmod g_file_storage	20:41
mgedmin	among other things	20:41
VDVsx	seems that some folks already got their hands in the N900, I'm getting a huge amount of spam from maemo.org votes :P	20:41
mikkov__	VDVsx: me too!	20:42
wazd	wait	20:42
wazd	Peter said something bout 5th desktop? :)	20:42
mgedmin	btw procps appears to work and doesn't appear to have bricked my device	20:42
timeless_mbp	wazd: eh?	20:42
timeless_mbp	anyway... that's the general idea	20:42
kynky	nokia uk shop still says order not shipped :(	20:42
Suurorca	"damn, why didn't they release it a few weeks later"	20:42
konttori	wazd: umm when ? (about 5th)	20:43
wazd	timeless_mbp: http://jkontherun.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-now-shipping-with-new-enhancements/	20:43
timeless_mbp	basically a device plugged into a host isn't allowed to steal power	20:43
wazd	konttori: 0:17 mark	20:43
wazd	maybe I've missheard something	20:43
timeless_mbp	until the user chooses a usb profile from the device	20:43
* lardman patches where appropriate then gets rid		20:43
timeless_mbp	at which point the host provides it	20:43
lardman	anyone interested in Fremantle builds of pocketsphinx and flite?	20:43
konttori	nooo.. there is not 5th screen. Perhaps he referred to dashboard	20:44
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, is there a way to figure out the power mode in /sys somewhere?	20:44
timeless_mbp	i think there's some stuff for that	20:44
zaheerm	VDVsx, can they vote only with a device? :)	20:44
timeless_mbp	but i don't remember how to	20:44
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lcuk	he said he needed a 5th soon. in relation to how full his were	20:44
VDVsx	zaheerm, no	20:44
VDVsx	lol	20:44
zaheerm	VDVsx, :)	20:44
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lcuk	saying he was running out of space	20:44
timeless_mbp	lcuk: yeah, that's what i thought i heard	20:45
timeless_mbp	he's not saying there is one	20:45
VDVsx	zaheerm, downloads are also raising ;)	20:45
lcuk	thats not the same as a product announcement	20:45
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timeless_mbp	"raising [sic]"	20:45
lcuk	thats just him having it full	20:45
ShadowJK	Quick, someone blog that he said there will be a fifth. The blogosphere will perpetuate the lies until they become truth	20:45
* mgedmin tries to figure out a mapping from "bus 001 device 017" to /sys/bus/usb/devices		20:45
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timeless_mbp	that's saying that he as a customer has an unsupported need	20:45
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lcuk	magic button!	20:45
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javispedro	and the fifth screen will act like a capacitive screen!	20:45
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frals	with multitouch!	20:46
frals	(and color-fax)	20:46
lcuk	mind you, if anyone was asking for a new feature, he is the more likely than most to get his way :P	20:46
timeless_mbp	frals: some people would settle for printing support	20:46
lcuk	+100	20:46
javispedro	docstogo had printing support on palmos	20:46
* ShadowJK right now would want a working USB hub for his PC		20:46
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Suurorca	and i wand the thing to work as a holo-projector :)	20:47
konttori	lcuk: by the way, welcome to the team	20:47
kynky	be cool if the n900 could be a wireless usb hub	20:47
SpeedEvil	Holo projectors are boring.	20:47
ShadowJK	a regular projector would be quite awesome... or video goggles	20:47
SpeedEvil	Replicators.	20:47
* timeless_mbp gets to the bit about the expensive flashlight for developed countries		20:48
lcuk	:) konttori indeed.	20:48
javispedro	SpeedEvil: replicators capable of replicating the n920 with just a sw update	20:48
ShadowJK	timeless, nah, there are real flashlight that cost the same	20:48
konttori	lcuk: I cannot see you yet in internal irc though.	20:48
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mgedmin	ShadowJK, probably last longer too	20:48
ShadowJK	mgedmin, not sure :)	20:48
dmj726	iphone is an expensive flashlight that lets you pay more for it to be a flashlight.	20:49
lcuk	konttori, few days, setting up stuff	20:49
SpeedEvil	Oh ...	20:49
konttori	ok. cool. I added most of the permissions you need earlier today	20:49
SpeedEvil	Can the flash LEDs be turned on to act like a flashlight?	20:49
SpeedEvil	They will presumably need to be PWM'd to keep them in SOA	20:49
mgedmin	lsusb -v shows me the N900 has two configurations self-powered 100mA and bus-powered 500mA	20:49
mgedmin	if I understand the output correctly	20:49
lcuk	yeah i saw those, reading mostly atm	20:50
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konttori	SpeedEvil: yes, you can keep it on	20:50
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timeless_mbp	mgedmin: 500mA is the most a device can legally ask for from a host	20:50
timeless_mbp	100mA is the minimum a device will get	20:51
SpeedEvil	^USB2 host	20:51
SpeedEvil	USB3 ...	20:51
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: i believe in usb1	20:51
* SpeedEvil stabs the USB3 standard.		20:51
javispedro	when did USB become ugly	20:51
timeless_mbp	yeah usb3 is ... whatever	20:51
SpeedEvil	USB1/2 standard.	20:51
timeless_mbp	javispedro: OHCI/UHCI ?	20:51
SpeedEvil	javispedro: 1.1 isn't too bad.	20:51
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javispedro	SpeedEvil: agreed	20:51
SpeedEvil	javispedro: 2 is a whole nother kettle of banannas.	20:51
timeless_mbp	anyway, the autorun.inf stuff in nautilus dates to a request in 2004 or so	20:51
SpeedEvil	javispedro: And 3, the inmates have taken over the asylum.	20:52
timeless_mbp	it landed in early 2008	20:52
javispedro	early 2008.. so no debian lenny	20:52
timeless_mbp	javispedro: basically you need a really modern linux distro	20:52
timeless_mbp	and you need a non lame graphics thingy too	20:52
timeless_mbp	it turns out that my enhanced art trips something	20:52
dmj726	2008 != modern	20:52
timeless_mbp	we were going to file a bug	20:52
timeless_mbp	but i think we forgot	20:52
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javispedro	ah, for the "shininess"	20:52
timeless_mbp	well, the icon is either properly parsed, or not	20:53
timeless_mbp	so you either get shiny or broken	20:53
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timeless_mbp	if you want the older dull icon, i can leak it	20:53
timeless_mbp	but i'd rather not	20:53
timeless_mbp	i'm proud of my shiny icon	20:53
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* GeneralAntilles wants a new image. :(		20:53
timeless_mbp	it probably makes my one contribution the most visible one in the entire program	20:53
javispedro	:)	20:53
timeless_mbp	s/program/product/	20:53
javispedro	true.	20:53
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: it probably makes my one contribution the most visible one in the entire product	20:53
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: leak the older one so we can laugh at how non-shiny it is	20:54
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: iirc it's in the tutorial	20:54
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qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: I uninstalled it...	20:55
* javispedro would have prefered a "killer n900" icon with blood and gore to match the new ad's		20:55
GeneralAntilles	Somebody needs to make a new killer penguin widget	20:55
GeneralAntilles	With a penguin that wanders around the desktop shooting holes in it with its laser eyes.	20:55
mgedmin	penguin with accelerometer-controlled eyes	20:56
javispedro	someone could make a penguin doll with lasers instead of eyes	20:56
javispedro	and give them in the next summit	20:56
GeneralAntilles	pew pew	20:56
dmj726	Perhaps a gift for Ballmer?	20:56
* javispedro is remembered of the "mr. gates, I'll be your host today" giant penguin posters their uni' BOFHs have.		20:57
javispedro	s/their/his	20:58
* timeless_mbp pokes mgedmin 's irc client		20:58
javispedro	basic grammar... the last frontier.	20:58
SpeedEvil	penguin with carebarestare.	20:58
* mgedmin back		20:59
dmj726	I've actually seen a dorm room with no fewer than 7 stuffed penguins.	20:59
mgedmin	I have three or four	20:59
dmj726	one of which was a giant penguin in a red hat.	20:59
javispedro	I have a stuffed yoshi instead. I prefer tropical climates.	20:59
javispedro	:)	21:00
timeless_mbp	/usr/share/icons/hicolor/26x26/hildon/tmp_tutorial_tn_icon.png	21:00
qwerty12_N810	dmj726: Good for target practice, then, I'm guessing...	21:00
timeless_mbp	was the source for the older icon fwiw	21:00
timeless_mbp	(roughly)	21:00
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SpeedEvil	I have one plastic penguin.	21:01
fiferboy	RST38h: I just methodically got five anonymous ratings on each of my products (in alphabetical order)	21:01
* SpeedEvil wonder WTF is going on		21:01
SpeedEvil	negative?	21:01
fiferboy	It is weird, the first brought my average down, the second up, third down, fourth up	21:02
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, guess it's the ratings from Maemo Select?	21:02
fiferboy	Maybe it is rounding	21:02
javispedro	lol.	21:02
javispedro	lol.	21:02
javispedro	rates from Maemo Select' er... "average" users into the QA?	21:02
fiferboy	It happens about once a minute, five times in a row for each product, then moves on to the next one	21:02
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ShadowJK	Aha, now THIS is an expensive flashlight for developed countries, 900 pounds: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-513644/Worlds-brightest-torch-lights-objects-miles-away.html	21:03
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, Downloads or Packages?	21:03
lcuk	does danielwilms app have rating in?	21:03
lcuk	perhaps hes testing it	21:03
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Downloads	21:03
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, pretty sure it's the Maemo Select ratings.	21:03
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: IIRC that's not really true - I recall brighter	21:04
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javispedro	ah, downloads. sorry, I read something about testing before :P	21:04
fiferboy	Where do you even rate an application on Maemo select?	21:04
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: kilowatt HID bulbs portable	21:04
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, on the listings pages.	21:04
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, yes it says so in the article that there are brighter, but this one reaches further because the beam is much more focused	21:04
fiferboy	Ah, only on the non-detailed screen?	21:04
GeneralAntilles	Although the ratings system is super broken.	21:04
GeneralAntilles	Doesn't respond to clicks most of the time.	21:04
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Actually - I think I made a possibly comparable one.	21:05
mgedmin	video out supports portrait, cool	21:05
lcuk	"<GeneralAntilles> Doesn't respond to clicks most of the time."	21:05
wazd	fiferboy: how's it going? :)	21:05
lcuk	click click click click	21:05
mgedmin	it never occurred to me to try that	21:05
fiferboy	Do the select ratings take into account the maemo.org download ratings?	21:05
lcuk	"why are my votes goin up n down"	21:05
mgedmin	not that there are many apps that support portrait	21:05
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: 1W LED, with a 1.51.5mm source but a 60cm60cm lens. not really important	21:05
fiferboy	wazd: Pretty good. You?	21:05
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, I assume so, but dunno.	21:06
wazd	fiferboy: same as always :)	21:06
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fiferboy	Hmm, m.o downloads says 61 downloads, Maemo select says 52...	21:06
ShadowJK	If you settle for just frying scrambled eggs instead of a whole dog, it's as cheap as 300 :)	21:06
qwerty12_N810	But whole dog is more tasty :(	21:07
javispedro	qwerty12_N810: there's an app for that	21:09
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lardman	I nearly tried dog when I was in korea	21:09
lardman	didn;t look too tasty tho, so went for the live squid instead	21:09
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ShadowJK	So when you get fed up with your N900/iphones/droids/hd2/whatever, you can just "illuminate" them...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AluuEjloH0M	21:11
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fiferboy	lardman: Was the squid bathed in lard?	21:12
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serenity	yeah, maemo runs under scratchbox	21:13
lardman	fiferboy: no; had it been, there would have been no hesitation and thoughts of eating a pooch	21:13
* lardman curses flite debianisation		21:14
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lardman	hmm, managed to hack it into building, but any debianites will not be pleased with my methods I imagine	21:19
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timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: ping	21:23
timeless_mbp	did you write the updated binary thing for me?	21:23
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: pong	21:23
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: I gave you a link to a zenity binary that accepts a --parent-window=XID param	21:23
timeless_mbp	yeah, but the cpa part?	21:24
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timeless_mbp	you gave me an arm binary, right?	21:24
timeless_mbp	i can't really test that w/o xwininfo which ... hrm	21:24
qwerty12_N810	Nope, I was waiting for you to finish off the required modifications to your stuff so I could modify the CPA as required	21:25
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qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: Yes, it was an ARM binary	21:25
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timeless_mbp	is x11-utils available anywhere?	21:25
GeneralAntilles	SDK repo, maybe.	21:25
timeless_mbp	could someone check, i'm a bit busy?	21:27
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javispedro	timeless: x11-utils 7.4+2-1maemo3 , probably sdk repo	21:29
* timeless_mbp busy waits for the catalogs item to open		21:29
javispedro	sdk tools repo actually	21:30
serenity	which repo must i add inside maemo to get apps?	21:30
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timeless_mbp	serenity: just enable extras	21:30
zaheerm	with gtk+/hildon how is best way to have a floating bar of widgets like say in the video player come up with controls on touch?	21:31
javispedro	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/x/x11-utils/	21:31
timeless_mbp	is the tools repo "safe" for use on the device?	21:31
lcuk	i use it	21:32
javispedro	safe guess is "it's not". but x11-utils package alone shouldn't cause much damage	21:32
lcuk	randomly	21:32
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timeless_mbp	ok, your zenity binary work	21:36
timeless_mbp	but i can't use that feature w/o knowing that the zenity supports it	21:36
timeless_mbp	can you promise me a zenity package version number?	21:37
qwerty12_N810	I will update it, I promise (I tried y/day but maemo-optify went up the shitter)	21:37
timeless_mbp	oh	21:38
timeless_mbp	also, please add it to --help[-something]	21:38
qwerty12_N810	It should be there; try --help-general	21:38
timeless_mbp	oh, i didn't see --hildon before	21:38
timeless_mbp	is that new?	21:38
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qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: No, but it's useless for the most part under Fremantle	21:39
timeless_mbp	(it doesn't seem to work)	21:39
timeless_mbp	should i use it under the assumption that you'll eventually fix it? :)	21:39
qwerty12_N810	I'd recommend not to use it...	21:40
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timeless_mbp	ok	21:40
lardman	flite & pocketsphinx here, let me know if they do or don't work: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/speech/	21:40
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Stskeeps	is it possible to call someone over sip without a sip account?	21:41
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timeless_mbp	you'd need a sip gateway :)	21:42
Stskeeps	and i guess google talk doesn't count	21:42
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timeless_mbp	i'm not quite sure what you mean	21:42
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timeless_mbp	sip involves giving your device a hint about a sip gateway	21:43
timeless_mbp	think of it as a point of presence	21:43
Stskeeps	mm	21:43
timeless_mbp	i don't think we run our own sip server	21:43
timeless_mbp	note that i really don't speak sip	21:43
timeless_mbp	so i could be wrong	21:43
timeless_mbp	but that's the general idea, i think	21:43
timeless_mbp	although if i understand correctly you end up doing point to point connections after you dial	21:44
timeless_mbp	but i'm pretty sure you use the server to deal w/ directory lookups	21:44
timeless_mbp	"where's the server i can use to talk to so-and-so?"	21:44
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timeless_mbp	or "hi point-of-presence, i'm over here, tell me when someone calls me"	21:45
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suihkulokki	timeless_mbp: you can make direct sip-phone <-> sip-phone calls without any servers or gateways inbetween, if the recieving side is configured in to allow that	21:50
timeless_mbp	suihkulokki: so i can callto:@192.168.200.167 ?	21:50
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Ah yes. http://www.polarion-store.com/cat_polarion.cfm was what I was thinking of.	21:51
timeless_mbp	suihkulokki: does our ui support that? :)	21:51
suihkulokki	1) yes (firewalls and proxies permitting) 2) no clue	21:51
suihkulokki	in the original sip plans people would use dns as the directory	21:52
suihkulokki	but indeed, these days most people configure their sip phones to make calls through a specified gateway/server/proxy	21:53
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* ShadowJK just dials normal numbers and has no clue how to dial sip outside of the "normal" telephony addressspace		21:54
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javispedro	ls	21:54
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javispedro	ouch. damn wrong window zorder	21:54
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acidjazz	any update on the n900 shipping	21:55
javispedro	acidjazz: http://talk.maemo.org	21:55
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acidjazz	yea its all crap	21:56
acidjazz	ppl yelling at each other	21:56
acidjazz	i read the forum 1st always	21:56
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kynky	mine doesnt say shipping on uk nokia shop, afaict nokia shipping to resellers first like amazon and mpd, who will ship on 16th to have in hands of customers on 17th, but no idea on nokia shop deliveries, although i imagine it will vary from region to region	21:57
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SpeedEvil	Mine also says nothing about shipping on my uk nokia shop order of the 20th last month	21:58
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GeneralAntilles	Goddamnit	22:01
GeneralAntilles	Stupid Nokia and their stupid NSU.	22:01
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timeless_mbp	heh	22:03
SpeedEvil	NSU?	22:03
GeneralAntilles	Windows updater	22:03
SpeedEvil	ah	22:03
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realitygaps	is there a non NSU way of updating? I remember the flasher was updated to work with n900 but couldnt find a rom anywhere	22:04
GeneralAntilles	realitygaps, yes, but they need to release a FIASCO image, first.	22:05
SpeedEvil	I assume there is a linux flasher?	22:05
realitygaps	GeneralAntilles: any idea of an ETA for that? or do i have to find a freedom hating machine to use :(	22:06
qwerty12_N810	SpeedEvil: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo_flasher-3-5_tool_final_for_fremantle_and_diablo_released/	22:06
kynky	maemo flasher 3.5 iirc	22:06
timeless_mbp	we could probably leak an image :)	22:06
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timeless_mbp	but i don't have one	22:06
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kynky	image should be for d/l soon i thought considering shipped status	22:06
GeneralAntilles	realitygaps, I really hope the week 42 image NSU seems to be providing isn't the real deal.	22:06
GeneralAntilles	Otherwise that was a big waste of a deylay.	22:07
GeneralAntilles	s/deylay/delay/	22:07
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Otherwise that was a big waste of a delay.	22:07
timeless_mbp	kynky: i'm not sure	22:07
realitygaps	GeneralAntilles: me too but maybe its a later revision?	22:07
timeless_mbp	afaiu historically we've never offered the original image	22:07
dmj726	Yeah, I don't even have a Windows box in booting condition right now.	22:07
timeless_mbp	dmj726: the flasher that people use @nokia is flasher-3.5	22:07
realitygaps	dmj726: me either, already had to install a debian just to get scratchbox working on linux	22:07
timeless_mbp	which runs on windows and linux	22:07
* timeless_mbp has never gotten it to work on osx		22:07
GeneralAntilles	and OS X	22:07
timeless_mbp	for me, it doesn't work	22:08
qwerty12_N810	No one cares about OS X	22:08
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* timeless_mbp kicks qwerty12_N810		22:08
dmj726	Ubuntu machines I have in plenty	22:08
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, works on every machine I've tried so far	22:08
realitygaps	dmj726: ubuntu is too broken for me for daily use	22:08
GeneralAntilles	10.5/10.6 PPC/Intel machines.	22:08
* timeless_mbp ponders		22:08
timeless_mbp	i've tried it on two macbooks	22:08
timeless_mbp	neither liked it	22:09
dmj726	Karmic is fine for my daily use.	22:09
realitygaps	timeless_mbp: as root?	22:09
GeneralAntilles	lol	22:09
timeless_mbp	realitygaps: um	22:09
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, maybe 10.5/Intel is the machine fail?	22:09
timeless_mbp	the error message was from the loader	22:09
realitygaps	dmj726: karmic dropped my laptop battery life to half for starters...	22:09
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: 10.5-intel yes	22:09
dmj726	eeek?	22:09
realitygaps	dmj726: and kde on ubuntu is really pretty crappy	22:09
dmj726	which distro do you use realitygaps?	22:09
realitygaps	dmj726: generally archlinux	22:09
GeneralAntilles	s/machine/magic/	22:10
qwerty12_N810	s/on ubuntu//	22:10
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: timeless_mbp, maybe 10.5/Intel is the magic fail?	22:10
dmj726	I'm a GNOME user/dev	22:10
realitygaps	sometimes debian (sidux)	22:10
realitygaps	dmj726: did they fix apt-get install gnome in ubuntu yet? its been broken nearly every release i tried	22:10
GeneralAntilles	Week 42, what a waste of time and effort.	22:10
dmj726	I just get the Ubuntu with GNOME	22:11
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: eh?	22:11
timeless_mbp	just wait for pr1.1	22:11
timeless_mbp	which won't include a browser update :)	22:11
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, unfortunately a lot of people are going to buy these things and perhaps never upgrade.	22:11
realitygaps	dmj726: yes but thats ubuntu-desktop - if you try apt-get install gnome (to grab the full gnome) then it usually says broken packages, even in LTS	22:11
dmj726	hmmm	22:11
realitygaps	GeneralAntilles: its a real shame	22:11
dmj726	never tried it.	22:11
realitygaps	they had a chance to really fix so much	22:11
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: well, since the important browser upgrade won't come out until even later...	22:12
realitygaps	will the NSU wipe the big disk?	22:12
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: week 42 (freeze) revision 11	22:13
Stskeeps	as far as i can tell	22:13
* realitygaps hopes someone in this channel might leak him a nokia image that is flashable under linux....		22:13
edgar2	+1	22:14
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GeneralAntilles	Woo, NSU is throwing errors in Finnish.	22:16
GeneralAntilles	Oh, now it's in English	22:16
GeneralAntilles	Windows 7 is not supported?	22:16
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	22:16
fiferboy	NSU detects my N900, but says there is no updated firmware available...	22:16
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: nice	22:16
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: actually	22:16
GeneralAntilles	Nokia: Bringing the Fail	22:17
timeless_mbp	given that the nokia stuff has a broken service name	22:17
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realitygaps	Nokia: open source via closed source platforms	22:17
timeless_mbp	such that the microsoft fire wall says FCUK OFF	22:17
kami	hi all	22:17
* lardman wonders why xchat closes itself whenever he walks away from the pc for more than 10min		22:17
timeless_mbp	the nokia app names have a trailing space :)	22:17
timeless_mbp	the windows firewall does not approve	22:17
timeless_mbp	(such a thing is typically a sign of an evil app)	22:17
Stskeeps	a firewall after your head?	22:18
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Stskeeps	er, according	22:18
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kynky	windows needs package manager with reposotories	22:18
GeneralAntilles	I can't even begin to fathom that working on Windows.	22:19
realitygaps	kynky: that would be great then thousands of users would click to add the virus repository in their IE	22:19
luke-jr	kynky: so do most OS	22:19
realitygaps	kynky: and enter their credit cards after clicking install	22:19
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kynky	lol	22:19
dmj726	Imagine a package manager that doesn't need a credit card!	22:20
matt__	I just updated my N900 from 37 - 42. Now I notice that I can't save files. Looks like the fs mounted at /home/user/MyDocs has rodir in /etc/fstab and not rw. Why is this? Is su the only fix? how do I do that?	22:20
MuJ	lardman: faulty powersace options or somethingg?	22:20
MuJ	save*	22:20
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suihkulokki	realitygaps: hows that different that the current reality where windows users click to add a virus.exe and give it their cc number ?	22:21
sp3000	hrm, why is mirror lacking packages in extras proper	22:21
sp3000	and why does it list python-support twice :)	22:21
realitygaps	suihkulokki: it would just be more efficient :)	22:21
lcuk	suihkulokki, where can i download that from? sounds cool	22:21
timeless_mbp	matt__: if your file system is corrupted	22:21
timeless_mbp	we'll mount it ro	22:21
timeless_mbp	there's a repair tool floating around somewhere in the n900 iirc	22:21
suihkulokki	the only difference I see that with a repo the virus provider can provide smooth updates if they don't get knocked of the internet	22:22
timeless_mbp	alternatively you can try to plug it into a windows computer and use checkdisk	22:22
* realitygaps busy downloading an XP image to try flash nokias 'open phone' using windows in virtualbox		22:22
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timeless_mbp	where did you guys find the image?	22:22
lcuk	hiya timeless :) settled back in now	22:22
lcuk	?	22:22
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timeless_mbp	lcuk: mostly	22:22
timeless_mbp	i have 400-500 unread bugmails	22:22
lcuk	yikes	22:23
timeless_mbp	down from perhaps 10,000 iirc	22:23
timeless_mbp	dunno, i didn't pay much attn to that part	22:23
sp3000	hrm, the openssh combo package isn't happy either (it's missing its parts)	22:23
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sp3000	so how do you vote packages down from extras proper :}	22:34
SpeedEvil	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x5IziyOcAg - clearly an app needed for maemo.	22:35
qwerty12_N810	iBoobs first, please, kthxbye	22:35
lcuk	SpeedEvil, arduino	22:36
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: well - yes.	22:36
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lcuk	use a pair of n900s (or 1 with a mirror to get stereoscopic vision)	22:36
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* lcuk was looking at robot parts last night		22:37
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: car scrapyards are good sources.	22:37
SpeedEvil	lcuk: door lock motors, windscreen wipers, ...	22:38
lcuk	i was thinking of starting a bit smaller with something i could host an n900 in	22:38
lcuk	like the dog, but with more firepower	22:38
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: Clearly you need to mount a flamethrower on your dog.	22:38
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lcuk	these surprised me	22:39
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lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYRehpTxbik	22:39
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lcuk	and my missus would not let me have one tho	22:40
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lcuk	and these are even worse - like cockroaches (v big and fast) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Soq9qpK5Ac	22:40
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lcuk	oh cool i found the really evil looking spider one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdR0q-suw0c&feature=related	22:41
matt__	Yes, there is a remark for FAT error: invalid cluster chain at ipos 0. MS chckdisk does nothing. Where is this other tool? I can not umount (not permitted) and can not run fsck in mass storage mode.	22:41
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suihkulokki	timeless_mbp: apparently our ui doesn't allowing sip calls without a sip account, and when you have one, all the calls seem to the service provider...	22:43
timeless_mbp	suihkulokki: cute	22:44
lardman	MuJ: dunno, but it's still running this time :)	22:44
suihkulokki	timeless_mbp: could just be my incompetence with sip setup and uris	22:45
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lardman	hmm, flite -v "hello how are you" makes a small squeak and tells me it's created 1.498125s of audio	22:46
timeless_mbp	lardman: that should be "hello, how are you?"	22:46
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timeless_mbp	unless you know someone fn:how, mn:are ln:you	22:47
lardman	timeless_mbp: you reckon it objects to my grammar? ;)	22:47
timeless_mbp	its legal to read it considerably faster w/o punctuation :)	22:47
lardman	:)	22:47
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: it's	22:47
timeless_mbp	s/its/it's/	22:47
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: it's legal to read it considerably faster w/o punctuation :)	22:47
lcuk	lardman, it would have more problems trying to speak northern	22:47
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* qwerty12_N810 had to have his turn at being a pedant ;)		22:47
lardman	true, adding a "," and a "?" made the alleged output .3 s longer	22:47
GiantTalkingCow	Speaking of reading faster, I've got a bit of a weird question: do you all read normally word by word or a sentence at a time?	22:48
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timeless_mbp	GiantTalkingCow: 'you all' and 'normally' and complex sentence structure	22:48
lardman	5 words at a time, or thereabouts I guess	22:48
timeless_mbp	= yuck	22:48
lcuk	if the text is correctly formatted you can read much faster	22:48
timeless_mbp	i read word at a time	22:48
lcuk	for irc its slower	22:48
lardman	too many northerners ;)	22:48
SpeedEvil	There was one insane nutter over on #freenode - possibly still is.	22:48
timeless_mbp	but i read fairly quickly	22:48
SpeedEvil	Blind person.	22:48
timeless_mbp	i think i have a 5 word buffer	22:49
lcuk	SpeedEvil, thats not insane	22:49
SpeedEvil	Who had his screenreader going at 600wpm	22:49
timeless_mbp	that's fairly typical	22:49
qwerty12_N810	lardman: so true	22:49
timeless_mbp	blind users w/ screen readers will tune their readers up to incredibly fast speeds	22:49
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timeless_mbp	there was a demo (mostly auditory) a week ago, sunday	22:49
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GiantTalkingCow	SpeedEvil: Oh yeah, I remember that guy. I tried something like that myself. I was able to follow everything without much trouble, but it sort of lost the nuance. That sort of thing is fine for absorbing technical info, but I just don't see plays or stories working very well.	22:50
serenity	serenity@mangolassi:~$ /scratchbox/login	22:50
serenity	bash: /scratchbox/login: Permission denied	22:50
timeless_mbp	by ibm showing a screenreader-browser thing	22:50
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timeless_mbp	which managed to deal with 'descriptive audio' in conjunction with a video	22:50
sp3000	oh, oops, user error	22:50
timeless_mbp	it was based on fennec	22:50
matt__	timeless_mbp ? where can i find the other fsck?	22:50
lcuk	neat	22:50
timeless_mbp	matt__: um	22:50
timeless_mbp	dunno :)	22:50
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lcuk	the other one?	22:50
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serenity	why can't i login in scratchbox?	22:50
matt__	Is there a source repository somewhere?	22:51
timeless_mbp	serenity: you forgot to log out	22:51
timeless_mbp	unix permissions are assigned at log in	22:51
timeless_mbp	s/log in/login/ (?)	22:51
timeless_mbp	so if you login, create a group x, put yourself into it, and try to use the group, you'll find you aren't a member	22:51
lcuk	which ides offer ui designer and not so much boilerplate?	22:51
lcuk	or rather, not so much required	22:52
lcuk	for me to type	22:52
timeless_mbp	lcuk: copy xul files !	22:52
timeless_mbp	:)	22:52
lcuk	yeah, xul is nice ill give you that	22:52
timeless_mbp	s/ill/i'll/	22:53
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qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: Working on Gecko and such, how do you justify to yourself using Safari?	22:53
lardman	would you believe it, pocketsphinx actually works :)	22:53
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: i can't uninstall it	22:53
timeless_mbp	and i'm in the credits	22:53
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qwerty12_N810	Terrible excuse :-)	22:54
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: do you have webkit handy?	22:54
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qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: I use Tear on the N810, but apart from that, no	22:54
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GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N810, he'd never admit it, but it's the native widgets. ;)	22:55
lardman	wow, flite also works	22:55
timeless_mbp	http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/k/kde4libs/kde4libs_4.3.1-0ubuntu2/kdelibs5.copyright	22:55
GiantTalkingCow	Last time I used it, Fennec was dog slow, albeit with a nice UI. I wonder if it's improved any?	22:55
timeless_mbp	heck, i'm in the khtml credits :)	22:55
timeless_mbp	GiantTalkingCow: a bit faster	22:56
timeless_mbp	and support for html5:video	22:56
timeless_mbp	http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:FLur08s0lq0J:opensource.apple.com/source/files/files-521/Library/Documentation/Acknowledgements.rtf+webkit+credits+timeless+soref&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk	22:56
lcuk	theres a youtube converter somewhere isnt there? does native html5+video tag run faster/smoother than hosting in flash	22:56
GiantTalkingCow	Good to know, I suppose. I do hope it gets up to snuff. I enjoy having an adblocker without having to tweak my hosts file.	22:56
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lcuk	that reminds me	22:57
lcuk	i need to fix flashblock again	22:57
GiantTalkingCow	Yes there is. I read about it on Reddit yesterday. A quick search over there and you should find it.	22:57
lcuk	its letting flash through on my win box	22:57
GeneralAntilles	GiantTalkingCow, AdBlock is in Extras.	22:57
GeneralAntilles	For Fremantle, anyway.	22:57
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lcuk	in garage	22:58
lcuk	there is an old project	22:58
lcuk	and its svn is not public	22:58
timeless_mbp	grep -i timeless /Library/Documentation/Acknowledgements.rtf \|perl -pne 's/.(<timeless.?>).*/$1/'	22:58
timeless_mbp	<timeless@mac.com>	22:58
lcuk	i thought all svn stuff was public	22:59
timeless_mbp	see :)	22:59
* GeneralAntilles misses iTools.		22:59
lcuk	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/bac/	22:59
timeless_mbp	what's iTools?	22:59
* lcuk cannot download files		22:59
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: :)	22:59
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timeless_mbp	that's kinda cool, no? :)	22:59
* lcuk thinks timeless rocks		22:59
timeless_mbp	i'm in credits in a number of amusing places :)	22:59
timeless_mbp	i think my favorite is lsof :)	22:59
lcuk	not for that :P i meant cos you know how to regex :P	23:00
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MobileMe	23:00
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matt__	lcuk -- I'm looking for a way run fsck; but I can't without root. Any idea how to get there?	23:00
qwerty12_N810	timeless: Yes, but now I can't say you're a traitor to Mozilla :(	23:00
lcuk	matt__, your fscked	23:00
lcuk	gainroot	23:00
lcuk	i think	23:00
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: that bit is because of work that was taken by apple (really dave hyatt) from mozilla when he started working on webkit	23:00
* timeless_mbp frowns		23:01
timeless_mbp	how the heck do i find lsof credits anyway?	23:01
lcuk	google	23:01
fiferboy	Hmm, the old NSU detects my N900 but says there is no update	23:01
fiferboy	The new NSU doesn't detect my N900...	23:01
timeless_mbp	i'm failing to google for it	23:01
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qwerty12_N810	fiferboy: Yeah, Canadians not allowed	23:01
lcuk	email?	23:02
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: not funny, historically iranians aren't allowed	23:02
fiferboy	qwerty12_N810: Ah. I wondered if it was something like that	23:02
timeless_mbp	ITAR iirc	23:02
lardman	hmm, play_wave doesn't seem to work in flite	23:02
* lardman goes and watches CSI		23:02
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timeless_mbp	eep	23:02
timeless_mbp	ok, where the heck is lsof actually hosted?	23:03
Robot101	robot101@tau:/usr/share/doc/lsof$ head -n5 copyright	23:03
Robot101	This package was debianized by Jim Mintha jmintha@debian.org on	23:03
Robot101	Sat, 15 May 1999 22:50:27 +0200.	23:03
Robot101	It was downloaded from ftp://vic.cc.purdue.edu/pub/tools/unix/lsof	23:03
qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/lsof/lsof-41/lsof/00CREDITS	23:03
timeless_mbp	qwerty12_N810: :)	23:04
timeless_mbp	do you see me in that list?	23:04
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qwerty12_N810	timeless_mbp: Yep :)	23:04
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timeless_mbp	site:www.opensource.apple.com + :)	23:04
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* timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to package this stuff		23:06
timeless_mbp	is there anything wrong with me first having a package in maemo-extras-devel as non-free	23:06
timeless_mbp	and then having a later version in free ?	23:06
sjgadsby	The distant screaming you hear is me running from the "Which is better, a widget or a shortcut?" discussion on Talk.	23:07
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* lcuk sighs		23:07
range	sjgadsby: A swidgecut!	23:08
GeneralAntilles	sjgadsby, nice place, Talk.	23:08
qwerty12_N810	sjgadsby: You're too calm a moderator. Release the anger within...	23:08
Stskeeps	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=371541&postcount=130 <- noone can claim they're getting ignored by nokia now	23:09
Stskeeps	;p	23:09
kalikianatoli	osso has no way to tell me if an application is running - that's a pity :-(	23:09
LiraNuna	hahaha	23:09
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qwerty12_N810	They only want him for the free N900s :(	23:10
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GeneralAntilles	sjgadsby, I vote for more pro-active culling.	23:10
timeless_mbp	kalikianatoli: pidof?	23:11
sjgadsby	With qwerty12_N810's "release your rage" suggestion in mind, the "So who will get it first" poll takes on much more fun possibilities.	23:11
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wazd	http://s15.radikal.ru/i189/0911/55/50ed1b9913d0.png <- how's that?	23:14
GeneralAntilles	wazd, description should go above authors	23:14
GeneralAntilles	Downloads should probably be moved under the rating.	23:15
GeneralAntilles	and I'd just drop the "Description:" heading.	23:15
kalikianatoli	timeless_mbp, I would have wanted an osso_something function, for when my app is called from a terminal.	23:15
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timeless_mbp	kalikianatoli: shrug	23:15
timeless_mbp	i'm a hacker	23:15
timeless_mbp	my gui is perl+zenity	23:15
kalikianatoli	heh	23:15
wazd	why it should go above the authors?	23:15
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wazd	install near "close" button - fail :)	23:16
timeless_mbp	wazd: maybe put the stars in the left column?	23:16
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LiraNuna	it looks fine imo	23:16
LiraNuna	it's green, it's easy to blindly click	23:17
qwerty12_N810	wazd: Is this for danielwilms' app?	23:17
timeless_mbp	are the stars live or an indicator?	23:17
GeneralAntilles	wazd, because nobody cares who wrote it.	23:17
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lardman	anyone knows if there are any tricks needed to get decent alsa output on the N900?	23:17
timeless_mbp	i'd rather downloads and stars be in a column together	23:17
timeless_mbp	(stacked)	23:17
timeless_mbp	probably the left one	23:17
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wazd	timeless: http://s47.radikal.ru/i117/0911/f7/85d231bf13d4.png <- that's why stars are on the right (ignore the bottom bar)	23:18
fiferboy	I'm famous!	23:19
wazd	GeneralAntilles: you don't have to scroll for description because of that authors row, so basically it's not harming, and some author promotion is good too btw	23:19
wazd	fiferboy: :D	23:19
GeneralAntilles	wazd, depends on how long the description is. :)	23:19
qwerty12_N810	fiferboy: Grr, it's called Talk now, not "ITT forums" :p	23:19
GeneralAntilles	wazd, and the key is still putting the more useful information first	23:19
GeneralAntilles	NOBODY cares who wrote it	23:19
RST38h	wazd: why not make stars vertical? :)	23:19
GeneralAntilles	and even fewer will recognize those names.	23:19
fiferboy	qwerty12_N810: It's nostalgic	23:20
GeneralAntilles	So putting USELESS information first is backwards.	23:20
wazd	RST38h: diagonal, anyone? :D	23:20
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fiferboy	wazd: In a circle	23:20
serenity	a installation went wrong. How can i reset dpkg?	23:20
wazd	RST38h: well, it will look like a single coloumn of stars in the list view	23:20
lcuk	RST38h, ewww	23:21
lcuk	wazd, i once had idea to do hot or not and let app pics move left or right in a grid	23:21
lcuk	left was blue cold	23:21
lcuk	right was hot red	23:21
lcuk	you just adjust x pos	23:21
wazd	GeneralAntilles: well, maybe you're right	23:22
GeneralAntilles	wazd, of course I'm right. :P	23:22
wazd	GeneralAntilles: but again, it's not that important cause you don't need to scroll	23:23
GeneralAntilles	wazd, sure it is.	23:23
GeneralAntilles	wazd, this is only a single case	23:23
lcuk	is the author info available in the offline metadata HAM uses?	23:23
GeneralAntilles	There are applications with much longer descriptions.	23:23
lcuk	i know this is the online one	23:23
serenity	noone an idea?	23:23
GeneralAntilles	and your setup breaks sooner in those cases for no reason.	23:23
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GeneralAntilles	Other than "Because this is how I decided to do it first"	23:23
lcuk	serenity, dunno, but dpkg is the same here as everywhere else	23:24
lcuk	generic dox should help	23:24
lcuk	in same way	23:24
serenity	lcuk: yeah, but how to obtain a console?	23:24
lcuk	go2shop, give cashier money, she will give you a console	23:24
lcuk	what stage is the system stuck in	23:25
wazd	GeneralAntilles: any examples of 7-row long description? :)	23:25
lcuk	for you to not just open a console	23:25
matt__	sudo gainroot : requires RD ... how do I set RD?	23:25
lcuk	long descriptions can just extend	23:25
Stskeeps	install 'rootsh'	23:25
lcuk	and for the rarity it occurs the layout can adjust surely	23:26
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* Stskeeps wonders who decided to put the usb plug where it is.		23:26
serenity	lcuk: i installed a tool, but installation ended in the middle. After that, no catalogues are available and i can't add any	23:26
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lcuk	so whats all this about a console?	23:26
greenfly	Stskeeps: someone who wanted to give any 3rd-party dock engineers a hard time?	23:26
serenity	lcuk: i want to repair it	23:27
Stskeeps	greenfly: for that purpose it isn't actually in a bad place	23:27
lcuk	wazd	23:27
greenfly	Stskeeps: depends on whether you'd want the dock to also access the headphone jack	23:27
lcuk	where do you show descriptions	23:28
lcuk	in that layout	23:28
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Stskeeps	greenfly: mm.	23:28
lcuk	how do i tell the media scanner to only extract metadata from the filename of movies and mp3s	23:29
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lcuk	because i dont care about the stuff inside	23:29
lcuk	and so it doesnt lockup everytime i drop another few tv episodes on	23:29
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lcuk	sorry, not lockup - slow down	23:30
greenfly	uses trackerd so if you can tweak it, it would be like you'd tweak trackerd on an ubuntu machine	23:30
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lcuk	i use windows xp :)	23:30
lcuk	well, until my computer arrives	23:30
greenfly	I would imagine that you might have to wait until someone provides some configuration interface into it, then	23:31
* lcuk nods		23:31
lcuk	its all complex linuxy stuff	23:31
lcuk	i might have a play with the db	23:31
lcuk	its only sqlite	23:31
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greenfly	lcuk: I see some people mentioning that the tracker daemon has a pre-set list of directories it scans	23:32
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lcuk	yeah, but it treats different filetypes differently	23:33
greenfly	it might be possible to put media you don't want it to scan in a hidden directory, but then you also would have to use the file browser to access it	23:33
lcuk	like windows has some evil thing for its searing	23:33
lcuk	searching	23:33
lcuk	yeah greenfly, thats kinda not the point	23:33
lcuk	i want it accessible from media player	23:33
lcuk	but it doesnt need to scan the entire damn file	23:33
lcuk	or whatever it appears to be doing	23:34
lcuk	it warns me its gonna be 10 mins or something	23:34
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lcuk	instead of a 5 second file list refresh	23:34
qwerty12_N810	lcuk: I had 23 minutes last time :-)	23:34
lcuk	and for my purposes everything is catalogued in folders anyway	23:34
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Ceron^	lcuk: hello!	23:34
greenfly	lcuk: if there is a solution, it'll be found in tweaking what trackerd does and doesn't do	23:35
lcuk	hola Ceron^ !	23:35
greenfly	but not sure how to do that currently	23:35
Ceron^	lcuk: got anything new under development?	23:35
lcuk	yeah greenfly ill find out one day	23:35
lcuk	always Ceron^	23:35
lcuk	well, apart from today	23:35
lcuk	when i havent got an sdk	23:35
lcuk	i somehow managed to destroy gtk	23:35
lcuk	but kept clutter running	23:36
lcuk	so the ui looks "interesting	23:36
wazd	http://s51.radikal.ru/i131/0911/c5/f69e05f11fc1.png	23:36
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lcuk	gotcha wazd	23:36
lcuk	now, if omweather had another couple of lines	23:36
lcuk	would it be the end of the world to show em	23:36
lcuk	and drop the next icon start down a bit	23:36
GAN900	wazd, there you go. Though I still think the downloads should go near the stars.	23:37
* lcuk missaw lol		23:37
wazd	GAN900: again, any button near close cross = fail :)	23:37
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wazd	GAN900: especially the most important one	23:37
lcuk	move cross to bottom left :P	23:38
wazd	lcuk: what icon?	23:38
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lcuk	its ok you are now showing a detailed view	23:38
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zaheerm	lcuk, the tracker on n900 uses gstreamer to extract the metadata from video and audio files	23:38
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lcuk	i thought you were showing the list with descriptions in	23:38
lcuk	zaheerm, well it could just use the filesystem	23:38
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lcuk	theres no meta data worth extracting from my 350mb videos	23:39
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Ceron^	what about	23:39
Ceron^	google maps!!!	23:39
Ceron^	for n900	23:39
zaheerm	lcuk, it doesn't read all 350MB of your files :)	23:39
Ceron^	isnt it available yet :(	23:39
lcuk	it takes 9 minutes to update meta data on 6 new files	23:40
qwerty12_N810	google.co.uk/maps	23:40
lcuk	it must be doing something drastic	23:40
Ceron^	qwerty12_N810: that doesnt help me at all	23:40
zaheerm	lcuk, well that is a bug!	23:40
Ceron^	qwerty12_N810: no gps support	23:40
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zaheerm	lcuk, you should file it	23:40
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Ceron^	lame :(	23:40
qwerty12_N810	Ceron^: oh, sorry: google.fi/maps	23:40
pwnguin	Ceron^: my assupmtion is that google is leaving it android only	23:40
zaheerm	Ceron^, n900 came out today, give google a chance to support it :P	23:40
lcuk	i would if i had a publicly accessible url to share	23:40
pwnguin	zaheerm: did it?	23:40
lcuk	ie an example video	23:41
qwerty12_N810	Ceron^: Although, Maemo Mapper is being ported to Fremantle	23:41
Ceron^	zaheerm: well one would think n900 has been in googles hands for sometime now	23:41
pwnguin	well ill be damned	23:41
timeless_mbp	Ceron^: you can install geolocation for microb	23:41
timeless_mbp	it's available as an addon	23:41
timeless_mbp	i need to poke the google gears people	23:41
timeless_mbp	wazd: hey	23:41
zaheerm	Ceron^, no clue	23:41
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timeless_mbp	instead of buttons on the bottom	23:41
timeless_mbp	can you use icons	23:41
timeless_mbp	a bug icon, stars, a word bubble, and a package-plus	23:42
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wazd	timeless_mbp: maybe, but I'm too lazy do draw'em now :D	23:42
timeless_mbp	wazd: add it to your to consider list?	23:42
wazd	timeless_mbp: I thought icons can be good for portrait mode	23:42
timeless_mbp	the reason to use it for landscape is that icons are fixed width	23:42
wazd	timeless_mbp: it's already there :)	23:42
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timeless_mbp	text varies by locale	23:42
timeless_mbp	and can easily suck	23:42
timeless_mbp	there's a reason we only have 2 columns for buttons in general	23:43
wazd	timeless_mbp: yep, I agree, but I really wanted to show basics :)	23:43
timeless_mbp	icons can suck regionally (nokia manages to do that on windows, very impressive)	23:43
timeless_mbp	but generally for your target audience, icons will win	23:43
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timeless_mbp	wazd: is this a replacement package manager?	23:44
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wazd	timeless_mbp: http://danielwilms.wordpress.com/2009/10/21/download-client-for-applications-in-extras/	23:44
Milo-	hmm, will n900 be able to import s60v3 calendar, phonebook and sms's? with bluetooth?	23:45
timeless_mbp	Milo-: sometimes/usually	23:45
wazd	timeless_mbp: not sure if I have that little self-respect to work on package manager for maemo 5	23:45
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Milo-	timeless_mbp sounds fun :P	23:46
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timeless_mbp	i used pcsuite/pcsync to push my n81/e61i to outlook	23:46
timeless_mbp	and then used activesync to pull to my n900	23:46
Milo-	you already have one? :o	23:47
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timeless_mbp	i've already loaned out 2	23:47
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timeless_mbp	and arranged to loan 2 others	23:47
timeless_mbp	but... i work for nokia on the browser...	23:47
Milo-	ah, I see	23:47
Milo-	According to a rumour said by someone, Nokia started delivering the phones to the stores today in Finland	23:48
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Milo-	shall see if I get a notification this week \o/	23:48
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wazd	Milo-: it's not a rumor	23:51
wazd	Milo-: it's oficcial :)	23:51
Milo-	I know, found an article from kauppalehti	23:51
wazd	official*	23:51
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Milo-	hmm is N97 and N900 technically the same device, but with different OS?	23:52
Stskeeps	no	23:52
cehteh	no	23:52
Milo-	okay, they seem very similiar	23:52
GAN900	wazd, um, button?	23:52
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GAN900	Downloads the statistic is a button? . . . .	23:53
wazd	GAN900: what? :)	23:53
timeless_mbp	iirc n97 is omap2	23:53
timeless_mbp	and n900 is omap3	23:53
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GAN900	timeless_mbp, some Samsung something or othefr ARM11	23:55
GAN900	Milo-, other than being vaguely the same shape and both phones they really aren't similar in hardware or software.	23:55
Milo-	well, software is a no-brainer	23:56
GAN900	Nokia hasn't used an OMAP2 in anything in forever.	23:56
Milo-	different OS says it all	23:56
GAN900	Milo-, the N900 is AT LEAST twice as fast.	23:56
Milo-	sounds like marketing talk	23:56
GAN900	Significantly faster than that in certain cases.	23:57
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Milo-	gibber jabber	23:57
GAN900	Milo-, no, those are hard numbers.	23:57
timeless_mbp	the n810 was omap2, right?	23:57
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GAN900	Milo-, but clearly you're not interested in learning anything so I wont waste my breath.	23:57
GAN900	timeless_mbp, yes.	23:57
* timeless_mbp wonders how short GAN900's forever is		23:57
GAN900	OMAP2420	23:57
GAN900	Well, in the ARM11 timeframe.	23:58
Milo-	GAN900 I am, but 'AT LEAST twice as fast' is gibberish, it's never true, as far as benchmarking goes	23:58
Stskeeps	Milo-: it is remarkably faster than omap2.	23:58
GAN900	They moved on to non-TI SoCs really quickly.	23:58
timeless_mbp	Milo-: comparing processor classes is pretty much impossible	23:58
wazd	Milo-: it's twice as fast in WORST cases	23:58
* cehteh wonders how much faster maemo is in comparsion to android .. the VM there is quite good, but its still a vm		23:58
wazd	Milo-: like "oh, it was bad day" and so on	23:59
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Stskeeps	cehteh: i multitask 24 windows without slowdown.	23:59
cehteh	on android?	23:59
Stskeeps	no, maemo.	23:59
cehteh	well i asked about a comparsion :)	23:59
Stskeeps	and thats not even as intense as other people's attempts	23:59
Stskeeps	i don't use android. :P	23:59
timeless_mbp	cehteh: buy a bunch and let us kbow	23:59

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