IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-11-04

GeekShad__I got a question, which format maemo use to record with the microphone ?00:00
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RST38hjeremiah: next time you plan something like that, factor in human behavior00:00
jeremiahYes sir.00:00
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RST38hnot that it is too late to consider it for THIS attempt =)00:00
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jeremiahIt is all going to work out, the process is not that hard and we can make it easier and smoother00:01
jeremiah:)00:01
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RST38hHeard that one before, long time ago in fact00:01
lcukwazd, considering that device is MT its needing a lot of pressure to get feedback, or is that only him?00:01
jeremiahWell, there seems to be some vague consensus that it does force one to make better software.00:01
lcukthe pinch he did was awfully executed00:02
azorianhi, what would be the recommende options for video playing using mplayer on a nokia 810? (without reencoding the videos)00:02
RST38hRather than admiring great strategic vision, can I suggest a few tactical tricks?00:02
jeremiahGeekShad__: I am not sure about the codec used to record sound.00:02
jeremiahGeekShad__: You might record something, then see if you can find out what type of file it is00:02
GeekShad__jeremiah, I don't own maemo device :/00:03
jeremiahazorian: There is loads of video playing software, take your pick!00:03
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GeekShad__jeremiah, I'm a fennec addon develloper00:03
jeremiahGeekShad__: Ah okay.00:03
jeremiahAren't you guys calling it firefox for mobile now or something?00:03
jeremiahNo more fennec?00:03
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GeekShad__jeremiah, yep it will be firefox mobile00:03
jeremiahokay, cool00:04
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, thanks for that email.00:04
dmj7261any plans to bring firefox to other phone platforms, haven't heard anything to that effect?00:04
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jeremiahGeneralAntilles: Thank you for your reasoned commentary.00:04
lcukwazd, also, the hidden gestures. you can see him pausing on each screen and wondering which to use.00:04
GeekShad__dmj7261, they may target android00:04
azorianjerimiah: yeah, but right now mplayer is the only one i can use since I'm playin video from the command line. I just need to know what are the best command line options that people have found on the n810. -vo xv? what about audio output? etc.00:04
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: People like you are invaluable in any community.00:04
lardmanhey jeremiah00:04
dmj7261wouldn't that take a rewrite in java?00:05
lardmanjeremiah: can you remove things from extras-devel?00:05
GeekShad__dmj7261, i'm not sure00:05
jeremiahlardman: Yes indeedy!00:05
lardmancool00:05
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lardmanwipe the lot!00:05
lardmanoh, no, I meant just a couple of things, let me find the names00:05
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GeekShad__so anybody know the audio record format ? anyone with a device can look ?00:05
jeremiahheh00:06
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, reactions like just aren't productive.00:06
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GeneralAntilless/like/like that/00:06
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: jeremiah, reactions like that just aren't productive.00:06
jeremiahI agree, though I understand the frustration a bit.00:07
lcuklardman, +1 extras-devel SHOULD perhaps be wiped00:07
lcukgive apps 40 days to be tested00:07
lcukthen boot em00:07
lcuk30*00:07
jeremiahazorian: I unfortunately am not the right person to ask. :/00:07
lardmanjeremiah: ethos http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/e/ethos/ there are 3 groups of files in there, by date, could you wipe the first two groups?00:07
* RST38h pacifies lcuk00:07
jeremiahNo worries - lardman told me to wipe the repos and I did!00:07
VDVsxwazd, moto droid sucks, only 256mb to install apps :P00:07
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, sure, but it's not like it's a process that isn't responsive to input. ;)00:07
lardmanoops00:07
RST38hVDVsx: 70MB, some say00:08
lcuklol lardman00:08
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, I could see it being justified when dealing with, say, Nokia.00:08
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: Exactly! All we need is input and some constructive criticism.00:08
lcukyou could use this to your advantage00:08
jeremiahlardman: Okay, which grouping of ethos?00:08
GeneralAntillesBut the pouting just doesn't help here.00:08
RST38hjeremiah: I do not believe you listen to constructive criticism =)00:08
jeremiahRST38h: Not yours anyway. :P00:08
VDVsxRST38h, maybe, perhaps already has some apps installed, the whole space is 256mb00:08
RST38hjeremiah: So I figured00:08
RST38hVDVsx: Free space is said to be ~70MB00:09
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, OS is on there.00:09
lardmanjeremiah: well you could just wipe them all and I'll upload again, but otherwise I want to keep the latest group of files00:09
jeremiahRST38h: What criticism do you have, I'm happy to listen. :)00:09
lardmanfor me the latest ones all read 03.11.2009 17:5600:09
jeremiahlardman: Okay, I'll wipe out the ethos files and remove the earliest by date.00:09
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RST38hjaremiah: Well, first, neither voting UI nor product information editing UI work right now00:09
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, I read 512mb, 1/2 for the OS and the other half for apps, not sure :)00:09
qwerty12_N900I say to hell with extras-testing and extras-devel: everything uploaded should go straight to Extras00:10
* lcuk jumped back in00:10
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, ah, interesting.00:10
jeremiahRST38h: Yeah, all that is coded by Niels and I don't want to re-code it without him.00:10
lardmanqwerty12_N900: and stop lardman from uploading too to avoid breaking things?00:10
RST38hjeremiah: Whatever people say about maemo.org being under heavy load, 5 people voting on apps should NOT cause the server to delay responses for minutes00:10
lcukwell qwerty, the download accept will have your personal phone number and email address00:10
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's NOT just 5 people. :)00:10
jeremiahRST38h: Yes, very fair criticism.00:10
lcukinfact, thats not a bad idea00:10
qwerty12_N900lardman: Nah, you're VIP, you're always on the front page...00:11
RST38hGeneral: It is. I am talking about a very specific use case00:11
lardmanjeremiah: also, could you wipe all of libchamplain please: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libc/libchamplain/00:11
lardmanqwerty12_N900: ;)00:11
jeremiahRST38h: But, you will see a HUGE change once we up our infrastructure by the power of 10!00:11
lcuklol see lardman00:11
RST38hjeremiah: I doubt it :(00:11
jeremiahRST38h: I promise.00:11
jeremiahI guarantee00:11
qwerty12_N900lcuk: Number: 999. E-mail: lcuksux@whatever.com00:11
lardmanjeremiah: and emerillon also: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/e/emerillon/00:11
lcukRST38h, im betting its specific queries00:11
RST38hjeremiah: The current dynamics seem to indicate that there is some problem with the coding rather than resources (although that too)00:11
jeremiahlardman: okay dude. Were you on crack today?00:11
lcukbased on specific subsets of stuff in the new packages area00:11
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, lardman is always on crack.00:12
lardmanwell I used a stupid naming scheme00:12
jeremiahRST38h: We are going to move the repos to separate machines, generally scale out horizontally00:12
w00tno web application should cause that kind of delay really00:12
qwerty12_N900jeremiah: (He also wants you to remove his upload rights, too)00:12
lardmanso I may as well wipe the slate clean and start again00:12
RST38hjeremiah: My second suggestion is to decrease the Extras promotion threshold to 5 votes for now00:12
w00t(unless it has a problem)00:12
lcukw00t, you havent used maps00:12
RST38hjeremiah: Notice "for now".00:12
jeremiahI am just going to shut down garage until Niels gets back - then he can deal with you lot.00:12
lbthas anyonw found they can't play back video recorded on the device?00:12
lardmanlol00:12
RST38hjeremiah: The problem is that users are generally lazy and they will not vote on apps even when using them00:12
lcuklbt, whilst the tracker is ummm tracking00:12
lcuktheres a delay00:13
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jeremiahRST38h: That is potentially a real problem.00:13
RST38hjeremiah: You can easily see this by looking at votes in Diablo Downloads00:13
lcuklook for me ranting in some ML or another about "we are maemo" recordings00:13
w00tlcuk: no, I haven't, I do have a fair amount of experience in the field though00:13
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RST38hjeremiah: Compare numbers of votes to numbers of downloads00:13
lcukw00t, its bad in the cities too00:13
lbtlcuk: yeah, that must have been it00:13
lbtit plays now00:13
lardmanDoes anyone else thing it would be useful to be able to withdraw ones own packages from extras-devel, as long as nothing depends on them?00:13
jeremiahRST38h: Well that ratio is always going to be a bit asymetrical.00:13
GeneralAntilleslardman, yes.00:13
lbtit came up "unsupported format"00:13
lcuklbt, and it really gets its knickers in a twist00:14
RST38hjeremiah: So, judging from the current vote numbers in Extras-Testing, it makes sense to lower threshold to 5 votes and see what happens00:14
lcukif you do multiple really short clips00:14
jeremiahI will propose we drop the threshold to 5 days.00:14
RST38hjeremiah: Does not look like there will be a disaster00:14
qwerty12_N900lardman: Yes. We need protection from your stuff00:14
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jeremiahI will send an email to the list(s) about that and see if we can't get that done.00:14
lardmanqwerty12_N900: oi!00:14
lcukspeaking of which - a few folks had an email from me last night, has anyone had a go (mail me back or pm me please)00:14
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* jeremiah goes to erase all of larman's hard work today.00:15
lardmanlcuk: yeah go on then00:15
lardmanjeremiah: not all, leave some of ethos behind :)00:15
jeremiahheh00:15
RST38hjeremiah: javispedro also has been having troubles with packages that are not apps but required by apps00:15
lardmanor just get rid and I'll upload again00:15
lardman:)00:15
RST38hjeremiah: but I can't say much about it, he has more info00:16
jeremiahRST38h: Yeah, we have been going through some of that on the lists, hhedberg had an issue there too00:16
javispedrohey, prove that extras-testing works by voting BOTH http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/openttd/0.7.3-1maemo1 and http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/openttd-opengfx/0.1.100:16
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lcukgreat! i will send you another mail, theres incentives coming i believe00:16
lcukdoes the webcam we got from skype work anywhere other than skype btw00:17
jeremiahI am right in my statement that while the process is klunky and not perfect, it does help improve software somewhat?00:17
qwerty12_N900javispedro: I'ma feel sorry for you everytime you put out an update00:17
Flandryi can't find the document that describes what signals an app should respond to when it is minimized. Anyone point me the right direction?00:17
RST38hjeremiah: At the moment, I doubt it :)00:17
lcukflandry, just a mo00:17
VDVsxlardman, the dev should also have the ability to remove thinks from -testing, I proposed that on the Q&A buzz00:17
jeremiahWell I have heard some noises in that direction.00:17
lcuki documented a patch yesterday00:18
javispedrodon't worry. Maemo.org will selfdestruct before the next openttd version because TEN people will try to vote at the same time00:18
RST38hDiablo Extras are pretty stable too at the moment, and they are not even using the QA mechanism00:18
lcukFlandry, http://pastebin.com/f53ed488200:18
qwerty12_N900TEN?! The 770s will blow up.00:18
lcukjeremiah, 100%00:18
ShadowJKsomeone made diablo gainroot spew warnings00:18
Flandrythanks00:18
lcukyes the process WILL improve apps00:18
lcukits like buying a new pair of shoes tho00:19
lcuktakes a bit of time to wear in00:19
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RST38hprobably, yes00:19
lcukonce you know the hoops needed, you jump00:19
lcukwithout thinking00:20
lcukwe have been lax00:20
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jeremiahlcuk: Well said.00:20
lardmanVDVsx: glad it's not just me who thinks that then :)00:20
lardmanand GAN of course00:20
jeremiahso lardy, you wanna keep the versions with git in them correct?00:20
lcukof course jeremiah i really dislike parts of the testing00:20
lcukbut now that we can point testers at a whole list of apps00:20
lcukand say try a bunch of those00:20
lardmanyes please00:20
lcukand they come back with info00:20
jeremiahlcuk: Yeah, but hopefully we can fix it.00:21
* lcuk nods00:21
lcukwe must.00:21
javispedroyes, because people are apphungry.00:21
VDVsxjeremiah, btw, you'll announce the Q&A meeting, right ? :)00:21
* lcuk nods00:21
jeremiahVDVsx: Yes indeed, still composing the email. :)00:22
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VDVsxjeremiah, ah, np, just checking ;)00:22
* javispedro found a fansite that is mirroring "maemo apps" by putting the .install apps in rapidshare00:22
RST38hjeremiah: Oh, one more thing: it has been widely discussed that once the package gets into Extras, updates to it should require less votes00:22
jeremiahRST38h: Yeah, we have been discussing that mechanism on the lists00:22
RST38hjeremiah: Not having that pretty much punishes developers actively updating their products00:22
jeremiahAnd we are talking about keeping karma.00:22
lcukis there a difference between an app which gets an update 3 days after the last one and an app that gets an update 6 months later00:22
jeremiahSo yeah, that is something everyone is looking at.00:23
lcukRST38h, continuously need forecourt salespeople00:23
kalikianatolijavispedro, "mirroring" by having textual references to repositories? ouch :)00:23
lcukto introduce the apps to a new crowd00:23
javispedrokalikianatoli: exactly.00:23
lcukwhen it was the existing users who detected the problem00:23
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RST38hlcuk: this gets too complicated00:24
lcukyeah does00:24
lcukthe date thing shouldnt tho00:24
lcuknice and simple00:24
lcukyou are updating updating updating, your karma should remain00:24
lcukcos you are working on it00:24
lcukbut 6 months later, why shouldnt it be retested00:24
javispedroand I don't agree with the weird ideas about using the packaging version00:25
javispedronative apps won't change the -0maemoX version00:25
lcukme neither00:25
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lcukapp devs use totally random versions00:25
Flandrylcuk: where did you find that documented? I remember reading it somewhere. My app doesn't use gtk :/00:25
javispedroports changing the -0maemoX might mean drastical changes.00:25
lcukFlandry, irc discussion00:25
GeneralAntillesI get the sense that some of these people feel like their toes are being stepped on.00:25
lcukwhat does it use00:25
Flandrysdl00:25
kalikianatolihrm... emerillon isn't integrated at all :-/00:25
kalikianatoli<-- disappointed00:26
lcukGeneralAntilles indeed00:26
lcukand i see the point00:26
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kalikianatolithe irony is that it is blindingly fast and unlike maps, works00:26
javispedroFlandry: "minimized"? read about SDL events, specially ACTIVATE.00:26
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Flandryit runs fullscreen, so i basically meant loss of focus i guess00:27
lcukkalikianatoli, in -devel ?00:27
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: I guess it's quite the change... From being able to promote anything in chinook/diablo. Of course, this is what helped Extras to be full of stuff that does not need to be there. Like libraries in user/00:27
lcukyes Flandry00:27
jeremiahI just saw emerillion go into the repos recently . . .00:27
lcukyou just killed it didnt you00:27
lcukahh no, you were killing lardmans ethos00:28
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kalikianatolilcuk, yep00:28
qwerty12_N900I always knew jeremiah was a murderer00:28
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lardmankalikianatoli: am working on it, hold your horses!00:28
jeremiahkill!00:28
Flandryso SDL knows when it loses focus?00:28
javispedroFlandry: yes.00:28
lardmanjeremiah: actually, can you purge all of libchamplain, just realised there was a mistake in there too00:28
Flandrykthnx00:28
jeremiahlardman: Sure.00:29
javispedroI would link to the SDL_ActiveEvent docs if I had a URL.00:29
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lardmanthanks00:29
kalikianatolilardman, oohh, I'll try to but my horse is hot-blooded. :D00:29
lcuklol lardman just like that!00:30
jeremiahlibchamplain is gone, it is an ex-library, it has gone to meet its maker00:30
lcukjeremiah, can you delete qwerty12_N900 please00:30
lcukerrr sorry00:30
lcukjeremiah, can you purge qwerty12_N900 please00:30
jeremiahrm -rf qwerty12_N90000:30
lcukthx00:30
jeremiahrm -rf qwerty*00:30
Flandryha00:30
qwerty12_N900jeremiah, liq* needs removing00:30
jeremiahDoesn't seem to be working.00:30
qwerty12_N900I'll make a new package in its place: liqtrash00:31
lardmangreat thanks, will replace it with a bigger and better version00:31
jeremiahPronounced: Lick Trash.00:31
Flandryhope you brought TRON along to help you qwerty00:31
* lcuk is preparing eureka right now :)00:31
lardmanor a right-er version00:31
qwerty12_N900Here lies the remains of what was some odd OS, liqbase00:31
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javispedroliqeureka00:32
lcukno00:32
* lardman wonders if lcuk is in therefore the bath00:32
lcukjust eureka00:32
lcukits just another small app :)00:32
qwerty12_N900lcuk: I'd run00:32
qwerty12_N900lardman seems interested to know if you're in the bath00:33
qwerty12_N900Try and avoid any bushes00:33
lcukof course he is, we could have a pint00:33
lcuksimon is in bath too00:33
lardmanbath of red wine00:33
lcukbleugh00:33
lardmans/bath/haze00:33
* javispedro reads about someone voting down some app because it would be hard to port to maemo600:34
lcukyeah00:34
lcukwas a typo00:34
lcukmeant to say winme00:34
javispedroa bath of red Windows ME?00:35
* javispedro sees it was just a misunderstanding00:35
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qwerty12_N900Blue Windows Me00:35
qwerty12_N900After all, BSODs were its speciality...00:35
javispedrowould Windows ME pass Maemo QA?00:36
javispedros/Maemo/-testing00:36
qwerty12_N900Yeah00:36
javispedrostart the flames!00:36
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javispedroqwerty12_N900: it would pass QA because in true Microsoft fashion they would just bump the version number from 4.2 to 4.3 and say in changelog "just cosmetic minor upgrade", thus inheriting previous version karma00:37
lcuk+100:37
* jeremiah clubs javispedro 00:37
lcukand tick the box!00:38
* jeremiah clubs lcuk 00:38
qwerty12_N900javispedro: Hehe... I was thinking more along the lines: lcuk would rig the system and consistently vote it up because it said "Windows" in the name00:38
lardmanqwerty12_N900: how do I get automake to run using cdbs?00:39
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qwerty12_N900Don't ask me, I hate the shit00:39
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jeremiahqwerty12_N900: Good answer. :)00:39
jeremiahThat is my answer too.00:40
lardmanlol00:40
qwerty12_N900Hehe00:40
javispedrolardman: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk this exists, but then... I don't what it does.00:40
javispedros/don't/don't know00:40
javispedropossibly fscking your source tree and hiding your car keys00:40
kalikianatoli^^ http://cdbs-doc.duckcorp.org/en/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id49045900:41
jeremiahBut aside from that it should work.00:41
lardmanjavispedro: thanks :)00:41
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lardmanhmm, and how to go from Makefile.in to Makefile?00:42
lardmanbloody debian packaging breaking things00:42
* javispedro proceds to vote down all -testing apps because they don't work in his N810.00:42
* qwerty12_N900 goes to start a thread on -developers about javispedro00:43
javispedros/javispedro/banning javispedro :)00:43
RST38hThey installed Windows 7 on a clean machine  with no anti-virus protection  with User Access Control in its default configuration. They threw at it the next 10 virus/worm samples that came in the door. Seven of them ran; UAC stopped only one baddie that had run in the absense of UAC.00:43
javispedroWindows 7 UAC was seriously fscked.00:44
RST38his.00:44
qwerty12_N900Windows 7:00:44
kalikianatolilardman, autotools.mk will try to run "configure" for you00:44
qwerty12_N900*?00:44
qwerty12_N900It served no useful purpose in Vista00:44
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=364875&postcount=1400:45
lardmankalikianatoli: in a sub dir I have no Makefile (just .am/.in) and it's moaning about not finding target 'all'00:45
lcuk:D00:45
javispedroqwerty12_N900: well, it seemed like they finally were going to teach a lesson to all those damn developers writing all over Program Files.00:45
javispedrobut I guess Ballmer doesn't have the balls anymore...  developers developers developers!00:46
* frals grabs lcuk's n900 and runs for it00:46
kalikianatolilardman, then your build scripts must be wrong, in a normal build they should generate those files00:46
lcukfrals, mind the door!00:46
qwerty12_N900javispedro: Be careful: You may find a chair heading your way for that comment...00:46
javispedrolcuk: and you told us that story that the finger cut was an "accident"...00:46
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lardmankalikianatoli: as I said before, damned debianisation! ;)00:47
kalikianatolilardman, well, autotools + debian is a bit like salt on a wound I agree :)00:47
* javispedro dodges flying chair. then proceeds to write preinst script that writes in both /home/user and /opt00:48
lcukkalikianatoli, our debmaster is here00:48
lcukand hes skilled in martial arts00:48
lcukjavispedro, theres a preinst?00:48
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javispedrolcuk: preinst postinst prerm postrm00:48
lardmanhmm, this is annoying as it built once, but never again00:48
javispedroBURN00:49
qwerty12_N900echo "javispedro woz here 2k9" >> /home/user/.profile00:49
javispedroBuild Uonce Run Never00:49
javispedro/ TODO: Fix Uonce typo00:49
lcuk// TOD: teach javis to add extra slashes to irc comment jokes00:49
* lcuk facepalms00:49
javispedrolcuk: I discovered what double slashes did in IRC because someone made that glaring omission00:50
woglindelol00:50
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lcukhvelarde|stealth we can still see you00:52
hvelarde|stealthlcuk: ;-)00:52
javispedrohe definitely needs a better firewall00:52
hvelarde|stealthI'm in stealth mode not for you, but for my boss00:53
lardmanso really, what command does one run on a Makefile.in to produce a Makefile?00:53
lardmanconfigure?00:53
javispedrouh? automake?00:53
javispedrono, configure.00:54
javispedro:P00:54
javispedromaybe you missed the Makefiles in AC_OUTPUT00:54
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mtnmanhello00:54
* lcuk tried to dredge up his autotools knowledge00:54
lardmanI didn't do anything, the debianisaton broke itself after one run through00:55
lcukwhy havent we got a gnumaster00:55
* lardman knows where to cast the blame00:55
lcukcan we get RMS in here and see if he can help explain autotools :D00:56
qwerty12_N900lardman: So do we, so do we00:56
lardmanoi, bloody thing was working, now it's broken00:56
ShadowJKsome people just write configure scripts by hand instead of figuring out autotools00:57
javispedrolardman: time to "autoremake -vism"00:57
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lardmanI only have autoreconf00:58
wazdThe first thing I did when I got an N900 in my hands - I woke up :D00:58
javispedrolardman: yeah, that will do.00:58
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javispedroor corrupt your source tree and donate all your money to the FSF.00:58
javispedrowho knows.00:58
javispedrolast time I tried to run that I think some partition on my hdd was formated with reiserfs.00:59
lardmanfailed00:59
javispedro"failed" -- that's it?00:59
javispedrowell, they say unix utilities have to be terse, but...00:59
lardmanhttp://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/emerillon/00:59
lardmanlibchamplain00:59
lardman[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/build/map-friends/libchamplain/libchamplain-0.4.2] > autoreconf01:00
lardmanaclocal: macro `gl_FUNC_ARGZ' required but not defined01:00
lardmanautoreconf2.50: aclocal failed with exit status: 101:00
lardmanto be more exact01:00
javispedrocan it build outside scratchbox?01:00
lardmanno idea01:00
lardmanbut it did build inside once, so I hope it will again01:00
javispedromy sbox is busy at the moment01:00
lardmannp, qwerty12_N900! ;)01:00
woglindelardman year autotools dont find gl_FUNC_ARGZ m4-macro01:01
lardmanI bet it just builds for him too01:01
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lardmanwoglinde: still doens't mean much to me I'm afraid :)01:01
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javispedrolardman: you're linking with clutter 1.001:02
javispedrothe device has 0.801:02
javispedrobut 1.0 is in extras-devel iirc01:02
woglindeah so its a gl macro01:03
lardmanyes01:03
woglindedefined by clutter01:03
javispedroan autoconf macro? never seen that.01:03
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* javispedro blesses dget -x01:03
woglindeaclocal: macro `gl_FUNC_ARGZ' required but not defined01:04
javispedroan autoconf clutter macro, should I've said.01:04
woglindeah its comming from newer libtool01:04
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woglindeargz.m401:05
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woglindeAC_DEFUN([gl_FUNC_ARGZ],01:05
woglindeso you need libtool201:05
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woglindehm01:05
woglindewhich libtool version fremantle has?01:05
javispedro1.5.26-401:06
woglindewtf?01:06
woglindeeveryone uses libtool2 now01:06
woglinde*sigh*01:06
woglindeokay01:06
javispedrofremantle is still a fork of debian ... sarge?01:06
lardmanah don't worry about it, just can never be recompiled01:06
woglindemaybee its enough to remove local libtool.m4 macros01:06
woglindeI did this often enough for chinook-compat in oe01:07
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lardmanjeremiah: did you scrub those files? Just wondering as I'm going to upload some replacements01:07
woglindelardman look out for argz.m401:07
woglindeltoptions.m401:07
woglindeltsugar.m4 ltversion.m4 lt~obsolete.m401:07
woglinderemove them01:07
woglindeand run autoreconf again01:07
lardmanremove in my make clean?01:08
lardmandebian/rules clean even01:08
woglindenope01:08
woglindeafter unpacking01:08
woglindebefore running autoreconf01:09
* GeneralAntilles wonders how he got on both the Disney and WalMart mailing lists.01:09
lardmanok, thanks, will take a look01:09
woglindegeneral bambi01:09
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: buying Bambi from Walmart and filling in the warranty card...? ;)01:09
GeneralAntillesDamn!01:09
FlandryI'm looking at the SDL ActiveEvent documentation. When a fullscreen app in Maemo gets bumped back to a small icon in task switcher mode, is that just a loss of focus, or a loss of activity?01:09
woglindelardman *5*01:09
woglindeFlandry why you need SDl?01:10
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Flandryit's what the game i'm porting uses01:10
javispedro(curiosity) the game is?01:11
Flandryi'm trying to make it pause when out of focus01:11
javispedroFlandry: I'd consider the dashboard window being over "loss of focus"01:11
wazdooops, just deleted HTC icons x(01:11
Flandryit's the star control 2 /ur quan masters game in extras-devel01:11
woglindehm star control01:11
woglindeyes01:11
tekonivelur quan jess!!01:12
* Moo___ sends GO GO GO to tekonivel01:12
Flandryha01:13
FlandryOrz are among us01:13
Moo___*happy campers* wherE?01:13
qwerty12_N900They must be destroyed01:13
Flandryindeed01:13
* javispedro NEEDS 3d drivers01:13
* lcuk needs 4d drivers01:13
* Moo___ needs drivers01:14
woglindehm was it star control where could turn your man into fuel?01:14
Moo___woglinde: yes01:14
qwerty12_N900javispedro: Kidnap Quim at that event01:14
Flandryyeah if you were druuge01:14
woglindelol01:14
Moo___Druuge - Crimson corporation01:14
woglindehaha01:14
Moo___I was planning to name my company to Crimson corporation, but that might cause little fuzz among more conservative clients01:14
javispedroqwerty12_N900: no, I will kidnap you and bring you over there, then take you to room 101 until you REALLY don't know how to code >:)01:14
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qwerty12_N900Hey, Spain seems nice... I wouldn't say no01:15
GeneralAntilleslol01:15
javispedrohey, QA testing really works. I got a througly review of openttd-opengfx sprites!01:16
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mikkov__javispedro: I really used some time on that!01:17
javispedromikkov_:  thanks! :)01:17
* lcuk turns Moo___ upsidedown01:17
VDVsxlol01:18
lcukqwerty12_N900, you still blocked from leaving the country?01:18
lcukget yourself to this barcalona thing01:18
lcuki bet your all round knowledge would help the hackathon01:18
* Moo___ feels being australian01:18
javispedroqwerty12_N900 wants to be kidnaped it seems. do we have an app for that?01:19
Flandryqwerty is under house arrest?01:19
mtnmanprefrontal are u in boulder?01:19
lcukshut up OOW01:19
qwerty12_N900lcuk: Yes01:19
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* lcuk turns Moo___ back round01:20
* Moo___ quantum tunnels through Earth back to Finland01:20
VDVsxlcuk, btw, I don't see your name on the attendees list :P01:20
qwerty12_N900He saw you were coming, VDVsx01:21
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javispedroqwerty12_N900: you're wrong. he saw YOU weren't coming :D01:22
lardmanhmm, what did I do wrong?: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2009-November/011125.html01:22
qwerty12_N900javispedro: That's a bonus :-)01:22
* javispedro rofls01:22
Dantonicis there a sample video taken with the N900 available for download anywhere?01:22
javispedrolardman: you win. best error ever.01:22
DantonicI'd like to see the actual quality of the video as opposed to the youtube uploaded ones01:23
javispedrolardman: your prize is free promotion to extras without QA!01:23
qwerty12_N900He loses: pH5 was the first to get that01:23
lbtlardman you used sudo01:23
javispedroouch. :(01:23
lardmandid I?01:23
lardmannews to me01:23
lcukVDVsx, where do i request01:23
lcukis name on the list enough01:23
lardmanlbt: but thanks for the pointer01:23
VDVsxlcuk, here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend#Attendees01:24
lbtvague chance you used su and it somehow got transformed01:24
lcuki did that01:24
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lcuki never like editing wikitables tho lol01:24
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fralsyoure gonna mess it up!01:24
lardmanlbt: certainly can't see sudo in a grep of the build dir01:25
mikkov__lardman: builder is broken, Somebody is live testing something I guess01:25
* javispedro notes there are quite a few people now01:25
lcukit was empty when i looked01:25
mikkov__lardman: all packages are failing01:25
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lcukim added now btw01:25
lardmanmikkov_: ah ok, thanks01:25
lardman:)01:25
lcukRST38h,01:26
lcuk"If you have requested invitation and you are waiting for confirmation put "Requested" in the Attendance field. "01:26
VDVsxmikkov_, btw, not interested in the Barcelona ? :P01:26
lcukthat is different to the grid you just sent me to fill in, is the invitiation request simply adding self to the thread01:27
RST38hlcuk: Barcelona?01:27
lcukhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend01:27
mikkov__VDVsx: I'm not sure if I have any suitable application01:27
RST38hlcuk: I have not requested an invitation, out of vacation days, managing a project01:27
* lcuk nods01:28
VDVsxmikkov_, you can code, so... ;)01:28
qwerty12_N900mikkov__: Say that OpenVPN Applet needs redesigning, or something :-)01:28
VDVsxlol01:28
RST38hNo way to escape winter this year for me :)01:28
javispedrolike if I put up a good excuse :)01:28
VDVsxmikkov_, some new menus for one of your games :)01:28
lcuk"will not easily run on maemo6"01:29
lcukerr build01:29
mikkov__qwerty12: actually it does badly in all aspects :) right now it's crashing python01:29
javispedropython fault.01:29
qwerty12_N900:\01:29
Moo___python neverrr fails :<01:30
* VDVsx blames javispedro's openttd-opengfx for crashing python, hihihi01:30
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mikkov__what's the general agenda of this Barcelona thing? Coding&designing?01:30
lcukdesigning&coding01:30
javispedrodamn sprites! they're evil!01:30
javispedrocoding|designing01:31
lcukmikkov_, just before the summit01:31
VDVsxmikkov_, there's also presentations I guess01:31
lcukthere was a cocreation workshop01:31
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qwerty12_N900javispedro: You will recieve the highest form of punishment for this: a karma level of -101:31
mikkov__lcuk: I heard about it, but never really found out what happened there01:31
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javispedroVDVsx: I still don't know about the presentations though. Response in barcelona tech about the event has been poor so far (as I predicted :P)01:32
lcukVDVsx, you were there werent you01:32
javispedroso, unless they magically bring in some symbian devs...01:32
RST38hthere are symbian devs?01:32
lcukmikkov_, we spent time working through some ideas01:32
javispedroI know one!01:32
lcukno coding tho01:32
VDVsxlcuk, where ? red light district that's false, never been there01:32
lcuklol01:32
lcuki meant cocreation01:32
VDVsxah, yes01:33
qwerty12_N900VDVsx: You still haven't sent me the pics01:33
* RST38h is sure they will bring a few Symbian devs in a huge glass jar filled with alcohol01:33
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lcukmikkov_, we played hee haa hoe!01:33
javispedrococreatin' in the red light district01:33
qwerty12_N900haha01:33
RST38hAnd will only allow the attendees to look of them but NOT TOUCH01:33
lcuklol01:33
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N900, don't joke about that shit. :( http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4029300431/01:33
Moo___RST38h: symbian dinosaur01:33
* RST38h wonders if feeding will be allowed01:33
lcukim sure theres lots of content created in the rld01:33
javispedroRST38h: haha01:33
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* mikkov__ is playing sopwith01:34
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javispedroRST38h: I know a symbian dev actually! he's a low level guy though, so I don't know if he ever uses whatever user space toolkits symbian has.01:34
qwerty12_N900GeneralAntilles: Hehe. Quick, he isn't here; ban him from IRC!01:34
* RST38h is a symbian dev01:34
javispedroquick, bring in the alcohol!01:35
RST38hHave not figured out how to use Avkon though, the thing crashes01:35
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Condolences01:35
Moo___RST38h: KERN-EXEC (-3)01:35
RST38hor a variety of other unpleasant errors01:35
javispedroqwerty12_N900: he's still alive! if we put him in the jar now we'll get the best show!01:35
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qwerty12_N900Hehe01:36
RST38hhmmm...time to get out until they preserve me for history01:36
RST38h<sleep>01:36
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Moo___RST38h: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=32856026894&ref=ts01:36
* javispedro watches a helicopter fly01:37
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javispedrolcuk, watch out. black helicopters coming for your n89901:37
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RST38hMoo: these people obviously never developed for palmos01:37
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* lcuk upgrades to n899.1 and unticks keep karma01:37
javispedropalmos! I want to see it!01:38
qwerty12_N900palmos sucks!01:38
lcukwont we be landing at palmos airport?01:38
* qwerty12_N900 escapes the wrath of javispedro01:38
javispedrono. it's "el prat".01:38
javispedrowell, unless qgil decides to send you to the other side of the country.01:38
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* timeless_mbp ponders01:39
timeless_mbpanyone know who pinged me and why?01:39
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RST38hjavis: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30428#801:39
javispedroyeah, I read that :D01:40
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, nope.01:40
lcuktimeless, scrollback01:40
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RST38h64000 bytes per code segment, non-functional compiler, native ARM code accessible through a single hole in a dll, no filesystem...umgh01:40
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qwerty12_N900RST38h: Humping them alive gave more satisfaction...01:41
* javispedro nods01:41
timeless_mbplcuk: my scrollback is apparently too limited01:41
qwerty12_N900timeless: use the logs01:41
lcukbut, as qwerty points out, you are timeless :P01:41
* timeless_mbp nods01:41
lcukhard to parse qwerty12_N90001:41
javispedroRST38h: I know the damn platform well.... it was beatiful :)01:41
lcukhttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html01:41
RST38hthe best thing they could do would probably reimplementing the entire "OS" in a single smallish UI library on top of Linux01:41
frals[21:39:44] <AndrewFBlack> GeneralAntilles, yeah well I'm no going any where now I get aggervated at t.m.o but not leaving community look at timeless he has o posts on t.m.o lol01:41
qwerty12_N900lcuk: Use the search function01:42
fralsguess that couldve been it? ;o01:42
javispedroRST38h: they did. it's what GVM is.01:42
lcukshhh RST38h thats what the others are doing01:42
RST38hBut no, they were too smart for that01:42
RST38hjavis: Isn't GVM an emulator?01:42
timeless_mbpfrals: thanks01:42
javispedronope.01:42
fralsnp01:42
javispedroRST38h: do a symbol table dump in any GVM library and watch for MemPtrNew01:42
javispedroMemChunkNew actually01:42
RST38hjavis: No no, GVM runs native PalmOS apps on Maemo01:43
RST38hjavis: Hence it is an emulator01:43
javispedroRST38h: it does not emulate anything. it just runs a PalmOS 5 rom01:43
javispedrowhich contains a m68k emulator for palmos 4 apps01:43
javispedrobut pnolets are not emulated.01:43
RST38hHmmm01:44
RST38hthis isn't exactly what I meant01:44
RST38hI meant to throw the palmos rom away completely01:44
javispedrowell, the "database filesystem" requires a continuous chunk of memory01:44
RST38htake the UI framework, implement it as a little Linux library, continue writing apps under linux rather than palmos01:44
RST38hbecause palmos has not been salvageable01:45
pupnik_heh01:45
* qwerty12_N900 looks at the Palm Pre: No shit :)01:45
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pupnik_64k segment...01:45
javispedroRST38h: as I said, take a look at any of the symbols in the gvm .so files01:45
* pupnik_ twitches01:45
RST38h64000 for some reason01:46
javispedrothe rom is just for filesystem reasons01:46
javispedrothe segment size varied from version to version01:46
RST38hjavis: can you take a .so and use it separately from the gvm though>01:46
javispedroRST38h: well, that would be like taking GDI out of windows and trying to use it somewhere else.01:46
lardmannight all01:46
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javispedrobut at some point I guess you can take a subset of it..01:47
RST38hjavis: and that is exactly what I suggested :)01:47
RST38hjavis: that database crap was pretty useless01:47
RST38hno need to carry it over01:47
* RST38h notices he should be asleep. Applying fixes.01:47
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javispedroFeedback :)01:48
javispedrognite01:48
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pupnik_f part of brain could keep coding while sleeping that would be good01:48
pupnik_review over breakfast01:48
javispedroqwerty12_N900: you still have to receive your punishment for insulting palmos01:48
* javispedro adds to GPE ToDo01:48
qwerty12_N900Copy of Windows ME?01:49
javispedrohum.01:49
javispedroa 2009 computer with Windows ME.01:49
lcukpupnik_, tracy often says if i get disturbed in my sleep i talk code01:49
javispedrothat is evil.01:49
pupnik_who built dosbox for n900, qole?01:49
lcukit would run viruses quicker than ever01:49
pupnik_lol01:49
javispedropupnik_: me...01:49
Robot101does dosbox do any IPX emulation?01:49
javispedrosame flags as n810, since, well, I don't know any better.01:50
pupnik_it can01:50
Robot101I want to know if I can play networked command and conquer :)01:50
pupnik_k01:50
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Robot101ooh01:50
Robot101so, we should port it to telepathy01:50
Robot101:)01:50
pupnik_386/486 games may be too slow01:50
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javispedroit can, i don't know if the version in extras does ( i remember tinkering with it, but not what I did exactly)01:50
lcukparty @ javispedro's house!01:51
lcuk50 hackers descend01:51
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* javispedro erases all his maemo.org accounts, changes his first name and hides01:52
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lcukyou would come out of hiding when we arrived01:52
lcukwe would wave n900s01:52
* javispedro sniffs them already from here01:52
lcuklol01:52
lcukcool01:53
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GeneralAntillesWhy do people insist on recommending R&D mode. . . .01:54
javispedrobecause it sounds good.01:54
javispedroR&D mode sounds like your average politician bullshit.01:54
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VDVsxR&D pufff, for what I need that shit ? o_001:55
javispedroand I guess it's hard to delete a thousand google hits talking about it.01:55
lcuk1001 now you guys brought it up01:57
lcukcarry on, google is listening01:57
javispedrotouché.01:57
qwerty12_N900Nah, google doesn't index sites with the work "lcuk" in 'em01:57
qwerty12_N900word, even01:57
ProteousR&D mode makes you L33T. everyone knows this01:58
lcukthe Lamborghini Club UK are upset01:58
lcuk100201:58
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woglindelaallaaaa01:59
pupnik_n900 would look good in a nice audi r801:59
woglindefighting with setuptools01:59
woglindepupnik r or s?02:00
lcukwoglinde, do we need RMS again?02:00
woglindenope02:00
woglindeits working now02:00
pupnik_forget.. what u doin woglinde02:00
lcukscrollback pupnik_, hes fighting with setuptools02:00
dmj7261RMS wouldn't use an n900, not free enough.02:01
woglindefrom python02:01
woglindebut now I am fighting with the right imports02:01
woglindeto the qt stuff working02:01
javispedrowell, gnite :)02:02
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* GeneralAntilles wonders how much damage that my-symbian scratch silliness did.02:16
GeneralAntillesHe must put his devices through a rock tumbler or something.02:16
dmj7261So no other scratches?02:16
GeneralAntillesI have zero scratches on mine.02:16
GeneralAntillesIt's been dropped onto tile and carpet.02:16
dmj7261ANything else in your pocket?02:17
GeneralAntillesAdmittedly I don't store used razor blades in the same pocket with it, but still.02:17
dmj7261keys? pencils?02:17
GeneralAntillesKeys go on the other side, wallet in back.02:17
GeneralAntillesStoring your keys in with your mobile devices is just stupid.02:17
dmj7261I'll have to get used to storing keys and pencils in the other pocket02:18
dmj7261(My phone is a flip phone so it hasn't been an issue)02:18
dmj7261Is the n900 screen glass?02:18
dmj7261or plastic?02:18
GeneralAntillesBoth, of course.02:18
dmj7261I haven't heard, so I assume plastic02:18
GeneralAntillesResistive screens are plastic front glass backed.02:19
GeneralAntillesIt's just like the 5800 or N97 screen.02:19
dmj7261I've never seen either of those.02:19
kalikianatolibut the n900 doesn't *look* like plastic, compared to the 580002:21
pupnik_N900 feels very nice, for plastic02:21
asjthe n97 looks better than the 5800 which was horrible02:21
pupnik_rear of n900 is fingerprint-proof02:22
kalikianatoliyeah, it feels quite valuable (if that's the appropriate term)02:22
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pupnik_it feels like a thinkpad compared to most phones02:23
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pupnik_trackpoint mod!02:24
kalikianatoliheh02:24
kalikianatoliand of course get the cover of a prototype which *looks* like a thinkpad02:24
GeneralAntilleskalikianatoli, "well built" or "high quality"02:24
pupnik_need a seperate charger to test bl-5j02:25
pupnik_i got a charge from a friend - perhaps N900 is sensitive to wild charging voltages02:25
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kalikianatoliGeneralAntilles, ah, thanks02:25
GeneralAntillesI like that Newegg is offering the AC-8U bundled with the N900.02:26
GeneralAntilleskalikianatoli, valuable isn't incorrect, per se, but it isn't the usual usage.02:26
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lcukdmj7261, for years and years i have had my phone in my pocket with everything02:34
lcuki do try to keep stuff away from it but i havent always got an empty left hand pocket02:34
lcukso it goes in with keys and pens and cigs and lighters and stuff02:34
ccookeEvening02:35
dmj7261no scratches on n900?02:35
lcuknone so far02:35
woglindecoolio02:35
lcukim nervous ill get them soon02:35
woglindeI mastered pyqt with only .ui load and packing02:35
lcukbut im not treating my n900 differently to any other mobile ive had02:35
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lcukwhen outside02:36
lcukinside its a tablet and i carefully put it on the desk on paper or something02:36
lcukand never spin it face down ;)02:36
woglindenow I am really happy02:36
lcukexcellent woglinde02:36
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lcukccooke, \o hola¬!02:36
dmj7261...spin face down on sandpaper test?02:36
lcukon desk does it normally02:36
lcukmy old phone had a really natural centrally balanced point and i would spin it for hours02:37
lcukthere were cyclic scratches02:37
woglindelcuk yeah02:37
lcukjust one piece of grit02:37
lcuki only ever scratched n810 screen with the stylus02:37
dmj7261on the screen?02:37
lcukagain, 1 piece of grit02:37
lcukyeah dmj726102:37
woglindelatest fragmet was change blafoo.h in the .ui file to moo/noo/blafoo.h02:38
lcukit was a crap phone tho02:38
woglindeso the ui loader find my customwidgetclass02:38
lcukcool02:38
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woglindeokay good nite02:47
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pupnikwhat should i buy to charge a bl-5k (n900) out of device?03:02
pupniks/5k/5j03:02
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GeneralAntillespupnik, not sure such a beast exists.03:04
kalikianatoliI'd rather wonder what you do with it to *need* that03:04
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GeneralAntillesWell, a 5800, maybe. ;)03:04
pupnikmhm interesting idea03:05
pupnikty03:05
pupnikmy batt seems dead03:05
pupnikon loaned device03:05
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pupniki hate to spend money on a fix but none other known03:06
|Rpupnik: http://www.sourcingmap.com/bl5j-battery-charger-for-mobile-phone-nokia-bl5j-5800x-p-33841.html03:07
|Rjust searching for bl-5j charger will give you these chinese chargers i guess :)03:08
|RAre there good screen protectors for n900 out yet?03:08
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pupnikdunno03:11
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pupniklinks2 is nice on a few sites03:35
pupnikrreal compact data03:35
pupnikdo some diablo apps run on maemo5? ;)03:36
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pupniki want someone with a n900 to be my remote control robot for an evening pls :)03:37
pupnikwith webcam03:37
pupnikor no, ssh * webcam :)03:38
kalikianatoliwith a 245?03:40
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Ronaldo38741My N810 has decided to no longer recognise either the internal or external memory cards. Possible reasons?03:44
lcukRonaldo38741 dunno, corruptions?03:45
lcuktake the card out and see if it works in another machine03:45
FireFox17maybe..03:45
Ronaldo38741The external card works in my laptop03:46
ccookenight, all03:47
FireFox17try mount /deb/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc1 and see if that helps03:47
FireFox17*dev03:47
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Ronaldo38741If that works but disappears on reboot, then what?03:48
Ronaldo38741Eh, nevermind03:49
Ronaldo38741Despite disappearing for 3 boots today, they have now automagically reappeared03:49
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kalikianatoliif it disappears after something's done with it, it's likely corrupted03:51
kalikianatoliyou can often try to use it until the filesystem driver notices the corruption03:51
Ronaldo38741I haven't used them for weeks03:51
Ronaldo38741Just turned on this morning, gone. Turned on 5mins ago, back03:52
lcukwere you plugged into usb03:52
Ronaldo38741Nope03:52
lcukbizarre03:52
Ronaldo38741I use it mainly for webmail/calendar/twitter/notes, not much use for memory cards03:53
Ronaldo38741But like them to work, obviously03:53
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GeneralAntillesLot of typing. . . .04:14
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FireFox1704:22
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samadhello04:26
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samadwhat's the procedure to restart the N900 device from Application popup menu04:28
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samadi have tried with system("reboot"); but no result04:29
GeneralAntillesPress the power button?04:29
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samadGeneralAntilles : popup menu yes no dialog04:30
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GeneralAntillessamad, why do you need this?04:31
samadGeneralAntilles: i have an application and i have to write mce.ini file so need to restart04:32
v2pxso tell the user to restart, maybe?04:33
samadv2px, yes04:33
VDVsxsamad, restart a Linux system ? that's a bit odd. Linux =! windows :P04:33
VDVsxunless you are messing with the system04:34
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samadVDVsx, then what's the procedure ?04:34
VDVsxsamad, I don't know what do you need :)04:35
VDVsxif you can elaborate a bit04:35
samadVDVsx, I have an application that will write vibration pattern to mce.ini file so need to restart the device for updating the pattern04:36
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samadi have popup menu do u want to restart device ? yes | no04:38
VDVsxsamad, well IMO that's not a good idea, do you know you can brick you device if you mess the mce.ini ?04:38
VDVsxcan you use a plugin based approach ?04:38
lcukAnalias, theres plenty of ppl with n810s04:40
lcukat least one of them should have one for sale04:40
VDVsxsamad, anyway: "/etc/init.d/mce restart" should restart the daemon, so no need to restart the whole system04:40
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AnaliasAnyone state side with an N810 to sell?04:41
lcukAnalias, what condition do you need04:42
samadthat means i need execute system("/etc/init.d/mce restart"); right ?04:42
lcukmint in the box?04:42
lcukVDVsx, does that command need root privs04:42
VDVsxsamad, exact, I'm not sure about maemo5 but should be the same command04:42
VDVsxlcuk, maemo4 no04:43
AnaliasLcuk: functional, don't mind too many scratches - must have a clear screen and accessories04:43
VDVsxmaemo5 dunno04:43
lcuksamad, which vibe patterns are you playing with04:43
samadVDVsx, i think there may be previllege problem04:44
fureddoAnyone has experience with optification?  I have a problem optifying user's data for my application, and I would welcome some advice.04:44
samadluck : customize vibration that is not defined finally04:45
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lcukyeah i see04:45
lcukreading now, cool04:45
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VDVsxsamad, try as root, this will not warm you system04:45
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samadif i use sudo , then how password  can be used ?04:46
samadVDVsx : if i use sudo , then how password  can be used ?04:47
VDVsxsamad, sudo gainroot04:47
lcuksamad, are you making an app to change these04:47
ali1234fureddo: what do you mean by "user's data?" it should probably go in $HOME as usual04:47
samadluck, right04:47
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VDVsxsamad, are you sure you need to mess with mce.init for add a new pattern ?04:48
fureddoali1234, Ok then.  I think I have read somewhere that user data should be optified as much as possible.04:49
fureddoali1234, Using $HOME directory will solve my problem.04:49
ali1234fureddo: files that user creates should be stored on MyDocs or whatever04:50
lcukfureddo, application global data04:50
VDVsxfureddo, MyDocs is the big partition so no problem :)04:50
lcukso if your app installs 17png files and a big .dat from the .deb file04:50
lcukoptify that, but thats different to the user creating data himself by using your app04:51
samadVDVsx, not clear04:52
samadsudo gainroot is command ?04:52
fureddolcuk, Application data files are optimized properly (I think).  The latest problem was when using user data (in my case, they are vocabulary and preferences files).04:52
VDVsxsamad, yes, you need to install rootsh04:53
fureddolcuk, So I will revert to original version and use $HOME/.toMOTko directory for user data.04:53
VDVsxsamad, this one: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/04:53
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VDVsxsamad, then use "sudo gainroot" to gain root permissions04:54
lcukcool04:54
fureddolcuk, Concerning the MyDocs partition, do you refer it as /MyDocs ?  Or $HOME/MyDocs or something else?04:54
lcukgnite folks \o04:54
samadVDVsx: after installing i have to execute command04:54
lcuki ignore it for now04:54
lcuk~/.liqbase04:54
VDVsxsamad, yes, each time you need root04:55
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VDVsxfureddo, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs04:55
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VDVsxand for samad  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/System_Software04:56
samadso when my application is to installed any device need to install rootsh ??04:56
VDVsxsamad, no04:56
VDVsxif can tell your app to run with root privileges on installation04:57
fureddoVDVsx, Is there a MyDocs directory on Diablo devices (as well as Fremantle)?04:57
VDVsxS/if/you/04:57
VDVsxfureddo, can't remember the diablo name04:58
fureddoVDVsx, Ok, I will use $HOME so that it works on both Diablo and Fremantle.04:58
VDVsxfureddo, how big are your files ?04:59
VDVsxjust config files ?04:59
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fureddoVDVsx, up to 2-3 MB.05:00
fureddoVDVsx, For most cases, probably less than that.05:01
fureddoVDVsx, For exceptional cases, it could take 50 MB.  But I think it's very very unlikely.05:01
VDVsxif $HOME in fremantle points to MyDocs, you're fine, too late to my to check need to sleep :P05:02
fureddoVDVsx, Good night!05:02
VDVsxif not it will fail the Q&A criteria and you need a better solution :P05:02
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fureddoVDVsx, I will give it a try.05:03
VDVsxfureddo, thanks, I can confim it for you tomorrow if you, just ping me here ;)05:04
VDVsxgnite folks05:04
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anvith3penguinbait: hello there. i just saw the old posts on flite ported to Maemo05:19
anvith3and wanted to know if u are still pursuing the project05:20
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samadVDVsx, i have executed system("/etc/init.d/mce restart"); but shows Restarting Mode Controller Entity: mcedsmesock_connect: No such file or directory05:32
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pupnikrock and roll mcdonalds...06:14
GeneralAntillesGross06:17
pupnikyou know the son GeneralAntilles -- wesley willis06:24
pupniksong06:24
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* GeneralAntilles is listening to Peter, Paul & Mary.06:27
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pupniknice06:28
dmj7261any europeans on here at the moment?06:35
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* GeneralAntilles finds you folks really stingy with the Thanks!. :P07:59
dmj7261thanks07:59
* Stskeeps is tired07:59
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, poor excuse!08:00
GeneralAntillesYou're http://maemo.org now.08:00
GeneralAntillesTiredness is inexcusable.08:00
Stskeepsmy work day starts in an hour and ends 4 hours later :P08:00
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ta for the backing in maemo5 on n810 thread08:21
thuxmorning08:21
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thuxwhat is good wlan router for maemo and phones? from reasonable price range08:34
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Stskeepsi like asus wl-500gp08:36
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johnxmmm...new wireless adapter08:39
johnxI'm sure there must have been something very wrong with my previous wifi card now08:40
thuxasus looks nice does it support these linux firmwares?08:40
* GeneralAntilles has had good success with his new WRT320N08:44
GeneralAntillesAlthough I miss Tomato.08:44
* johnx <3 tomato08:45
johnxkeep coming back from openwrt/x-wrt08:45
GeneralAntillesJust wish it would support some N routers.08:46
johnxthe sales dude at fry's almost managed to convince me to buy something only supported by ndis wrapper. I assume stupidity instead of malice, but I was still disappointed08:46
thux'WL-500g Premium is fully supported and runs stable' say openwrt08:46
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GeneralAntillesMan, it's so nice being able to do UPnP videos on the N900 without having to fool with transcoding.08:50
johnxand that fm transmitter thing is working great too08:50
thuxi haven't got n900 yet wonder why :(08:51
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GAN900thux, it's not what you now, it's how nice the bribes you send Nokia are. ;)08:54
GAN900and I think I've figured out part of my problem with the hardware keyboard.08:54
GAN900It's that damn reverse iPhone-finger thing again.08:55
thuxbut here nokialand we should get devices first :(08:56
thuxcause we have to suffer company headquarters and such08:56
pupnikhehe09:01
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* RST38h moos at tekojo09:03
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tekojoRST38h morning!09:05
* pupnik looks at sun, subtracts 6h for RST38h, clucks mildly09:06
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RST38hpupnik: I am in .RU not in .CN09:10
RST38hOh, wait, you are subtracting, so that must east cost US =)09:10
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Macerussr!09:16
Macerthe ussr had the right idea, just bad execution :)09:16
RST38hussr had very good execution, executed lots of people at some time09:17
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pupnikoh09:22
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pupnikyou were also in BC, canada at some point, in my memory09:23
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dmj7261The EU looks like it's about to give "open" a very strange definition.09:24
dmj7261http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2620&blogid=1409:25
johnxyeah. read that. yay lobbyists!09:25
dmj7261johnx: Are you in Europe?09:25
johnxnope09:26
johnxwell, not usually09:26
RST38hpupnik: Newfoundland airport is as close as I have ever been to Canada09:26
dmj7261me neither: Europeans here should protest this.09:26
dmj7261The ACTA treaty is very nasty too.09:27
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johnxyeah09:28
johnxpretty worried about that one :|09:28
dmj7261I found Cory Doctorow's step 2.09:29
dmj72611: Sue and alienate fans.09:29
dmj72612:09:29
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dmj72613: A chastened world returns to the record stores.09:30
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dmj7261Step 2 is Destroy the Internet, since nothing useful or profitable can come from it for anybody.09:30
* RST38h would add a few items to the plan though09:31
dmj7261Actually destroying the internet might be a slight challenge, even with ACTA.09:32
RST38hLooks meek the way it is stated09:32
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RST38hRaise the prices for international travel to x3 the current values09:32
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dmj7261The three accusations and your entire household is off the internet strikes me as blatently wrong.09:33
RST38hStrip search the passengers, take their clothing, hand out the pajamas and sedatives09:33
dmj7261RST38h: I accuse you of copyright infringement.09:33
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RST38hdmj7261: Show the prior art or fuck off =)09:34
RST38hLet's see, what next...09:35
dmj7261You can make airplane travel completely safe, just do a strip and cavity search, prohibit baggage or personal items of anykind (even checked), confiscate and burn all clothing, and restrain passengers naked in the plane by both hands and legs.09:35
RST38hdmj7261: No mention of pajamas09:35
* RST38h laughs diabolically09:35
dmj7261Pajamas could be used to strange someone.09:36
RST38hdmj7261: that is where valium kicks in09:36
dmj7261...Otherwise, give me my shoes and my waterbottle.09:36
RST38hAlso not mentioned in your quotation09:36
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RST38hDisband the US airforce, replace it with a fleet of drones whose service and operation is outsourced to Boeing/Lokheed/etc09:37
RST38hOnce the costs of bombing far away places are brought down, start looking for targets =)09:37
RST38hI mean, if it is not the margins, it has to be the volume, right? =)09:38
dmj7261ummm?09:38
RST38hnuthin', just extrapolating some current trends...09:39
dmj7261Yeah, those things worry me too.09:41
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aboutsource US airforce to China09:41
abhire Dell to get logistics right for the army forces09:42
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pupnikno logistics, that way they cant travel far from home09:42
dmj7261http://xkcd.com/652/09:42
dmj7261http://xkcd.com/651/09:42
RST38hab: That is, of course, impossible09:43
abRST38h, we have parallel-running continents, why wouldn't we have parallel-running universes?09:43
RST38hab: The whole idea of having an airforce is to let local company-states make a megabuck09:43
pupnikshould make bucks with cancer research09:44
RST38hab: I suspect lobbying will work the same in all parallel universes09:44
pupniklol09:44
pupniknooo09:44
abRST38h, they are parallel, after all09:44
ab:)09:44
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RST38hab: BTW, Dell is already hired: http://www.biginsiders.org/index.php?mode=dod&page=summary09:46
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L0cutusre09:53
johnxugh. I think I need to give up on t.m.o for a while09:56
dmj7261too much waiting?09:57
Jaffamorning, all09:57
johnxtoo much noise09:57
Jaffajohnx: x: join the club, it's very therapeutic :)09:57
johnxwhat are the membership benefits?09:58
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Jaffajohnx: Sanity, intellectual discussion, reduced noise level10:02
Jaffajohnx: ...increased time for actual productive stuff (such as QA process and writing s/w)10:03
anvith3i downloaded the .deb packages from here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=24409210:03
anvith3and installed the multi package10:03
anvith3sorry its regarding flite10:04
johnxanvith3, how's it working for you?10:04
anvith3what is the default install directory for any software on a N81010:04
johnxbinaries end up in /usr/bin10:04
johnxplatform independent data tends to go in /usr/share (but sometimes in /usr/lib if the program isn't well packaged)10:05
johnxto see a listing of all the files in your package type: dpkg -L package-name10:05
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abRST38h, they have been hired multiple times but as suppliers of computers/laptops, not as logistics experts10:10
sarowerGood morning all,10:10
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sarowerI am using came from applet, and during the initialization of GST  gst_init(argc, argv) what will be the value of argv?10:11
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sarowerAny body?10:12
sarower*camera10:12
sarowerNormally it should be the application name! But for applet where i will get the application nama>10:13
sarowerAs it has no executable?10:13
sarowerIt runs from *.so10:13
sarowerright?10:13
sarowername*10:13
RST38hab: Probably won't be good at logistics outside their business model though10:13
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abRST38h, what's the difference? there are multiple weapons suppliers, food suppliers, etc. Dell can drive them to death to low whole chain costs :)10:15
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suihkulokkihttp://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/03/secret-copyright-tre.html10:18
Stskeepsyeah, that's pretty bad10:20
Stskeepstime to collect counterfeit10:20
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sarowerI am trying to run camera from applet, and during the initialization of GST  gst_init(argc, argv) what will be the value of argv?10:23
sarowerNormally it should be the application name! But for applet where i will get the application name?10:23
sarowerAs it has no executable? It runs from *.so10:24
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sarowertimeless_mbp:10:27
sarower?10:27
johnxAnvi3, I'm here10:27
sarowertimeless_mbp: Any idea?10:27
RST38hjohnx: Where can I get publicly available parts of Maemo5? In source code form?10:28
sarowerjohnx:  Any idea?10:29
mgedminsarower, what's the purpose of those args?10:29
johnxsarower, never played with gst10:29
mgedmingstreamer-specific command-line argument parsing?10:29
mgedmingetting the application name to display in error messages?10:29
mgedmindo the docs say?10:29
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johnxRST38h, http://maemo.org/development/10:30
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RST38haha10:30
sarowerjohnx:  gst_init(argc, argv) no need?10:30
johnxsarower, I don't know gst. :P and even my C is pretty rusty10:31
sarowerjohnx: When i am running camera?10:31
johnxwhy not ask a magic 8-ball10:31
johnx?10:31
RST38hyou are his magic 8-ball10:31
RST38hget used to it =)10:31
johnxsarower, http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi10:32
johnxit said "my sources say no"10:32
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JaffaRST38h: I'm seeing some odd behaviour with the latest iNES where it ends up shafting the device to the point I do a controlled reboot.10:37
RST38hJaffa: PulseAudio bug #552410:38
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JaffaRST38h: ta. I've seen it when already listening to music, so that sounds reasonable10:39
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RST38hJaffa: There is not much I can do about it. Looking at PA source code at the moment10:40
RST38hLooks like it hangs in pa_threaded_mainloop_stop()10:40
* Jaffa opens the bug to vote on it and bump priority10:40
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sarowerjohnx: What is this? it does not give me the answer!10:44
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johnxheh10:44
johnxhi lbt10:44
lbthi johnx10:44
sarowerjohnx: I is just saying No way?10:44
johnxanvith3, hi. still here. if you want to ask me a question. you can ask it on #maemo rather than PMing me10:45
anvith3sorry10:45
lbtI nearly got a Fremantle chroot in OBS last night10:45
Stskeepscool10:45
anvith3i downloaded the .deb packages from here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=24409210:45
johnxsarower, it was a joke...10:45
johnxanvith3, did you miss my message from earlier?10:45
anvith3and installed the multi package10:45
anvith3yeah10:46
johnxdpkg -L package10:46
anvith3some prob with Xchat10:46
johnxit will list the locations of files10:46
anvith3ok10:46
sarowerjohnx:  Oh no! man it's not joking time man!10:46
anvith3ok10:46
johnxbinaries live in /usr/bin10:46
anvith3ok10:46
johnxshared libraries in /usr/lib and data in /usr/share10:46
johnxfor the most part10:46
johnxsarower, it is for me. must be a timezone thing10:46
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sarowerjohnx: May be, but please give me the solution please!10:47
johnxsarower, I told you: I don't have one10:47
Anvith_i'm gettin this werror on xchat(An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine).10:47
johnxsarower, you need to read the things I say10:47
sarowerjohnx: Ok brother, thankyou!10:48
sarowerjohnx: I have read a lot brither10:48
Anvith_kohnx : root access necessary10:48
Anvith_?10:48
Anvith_*johnx:10:48
sarowerBut it is not so easy to get this kind of information10:48
johnxAnvith_, sorry. no idea about the error10:49
Anvith_ok10:49
johnxtwo copies of xchat running maybe?10:50
Anvith_well i googled10:50
Anvith_ its a common rror10:50
Anvith_ but no proper solutions mentoned oter than re install and shutting down firewall10:50
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Anvith_thanks JohnX10:55
johnxwas I right?10:56
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Anvith__Nick anvi310:58
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sarowerregarding gtkentry10:59
sarowerIs there any Api that set the vertical alignment of text11:00
* RST38h applies a dirty hack11:00
sarowerthat means text will be shown from middle11:00
sarowerlike in excell format cell-> middle11:01
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sarowermiddle of top and bottom11:02
tigertisnt it like that?11:03
tigertare you trying to use custom fonts or stuff?11:04
sarowertigert: me?11:04
tigertyeah11:04
tigertits centered on my device11:04
tigertin gtkentry11:04
sarowertigert: Not custome. but i want that it show the text in centre11:05
sarowernot from bottom11:05
tigertscreenshot?11:05
sarowertigert: But it is showing in my emulator from bottom11:05
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sarowertigert: 2 min]11:05
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pupnik"please, don't damage your n900" http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/4001102936_bf14bdbeff.jpg11:06
pupniks/damage/fry11:06
* RST38h has seen this one11:06
tigertsarower: http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/maemo-5-sdk-beta.jpg11:06
johnxwonder how many they burned already ...11:06
tigertsarower: the "hello world" is vertically centered..?11:07
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sarowertigert: let see11:07
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sarowertigert: Is it by default centered?11:08
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tigertI think so11:08
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tigertif you can screenshot yours it might give a clue what is wrong11:09
sarowertigert: Ok, it is vertically centered by default11:10
sarowertigert: Thank you very much11:10
sarowertigert: I was wrong11:10
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tigertok :)11:12
tigertgood11:12
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Mekfor quite a while it seems that every package on the auto-builder has an "ERROR running /etc/buildme.d/setup_build" in its output with a sudo-message asking for a passwork below...11:36
zaheer_yah i saw that11:36
zaheer_in builds i sent11:37
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wazd'lo all11:39
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paddy_melonhey guys, what devices has maemo been ported to other then n8*0?11:48
SpeedEviln90011:52
paddy_melonn900 is a phone11:53
SpeedEvilIt's a device.11:53
paddy_melonI don't want a phone11:54
paddy_melontoo expensive11:54
Myrttimaemo ported to?11:54
Myrttihuh?11:54
Jaffapaddy_melon: Mer, a fully open source derivative of Maemo 5, has been ported to N8x0, OpenMoko FreeRunner, 770, PocketLoox, x86, TouchBook etc11:54
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paddy_meloncool11:54
paddy_melonthanks11:54
Jaffapaddy_melon: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer for more info. There are also some Chinese devices which are running what they claim is "Maemo"11:55
paddy_melonok thanks11:55
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lardmanmorning11:56
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lardmanhas the extras-autobuilder been fixed yet?11:56
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lardmanhmm, still spouting strange messages, but at least there's a link to the useful stuff at the bottom12:01
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* tigert chuckles at the "its a phone" comment12:07
tigertwhat is a phone anyway? something you make voice calls with12:07
tigertsure. [x] it's a phone then12:07
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tigertn900 feels a lot like a shrunken minilaptop to me12:08
RST38hshrunken a bit too far, if you ask me12:08
tigertthat is the paradox12:08
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tigertyou want it to be small in your pocket and large when you use it12:09
Myrttipeople still haven't invented the bag of holding? tut-tut12:09
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Myrttiquit ircing and start inventing12:09
lardmanwe obviously need to carry handbags ;)12:09
SpeedEvilWe just need proper cases that lie flush to the back, and allow you to remove a netbook one-handed.12:10
SpeedEvilAnd are rugged enough to sit on without issue.12:10
Myrttilardman: manbags are always a good idea12:10
johnxbackpacks > manbags12:10
* mgedmin roots for resizable devices12:10
lardmanbut never hold as much as a handbag, as illustrated by my wife's12:10
mgedminit works for windows, why not physical objects?12:10
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* mgedmin grabs the railing12:11
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mgedminchoppy weather today on irc12:11
SpeedEvilmgedmin: it's coming - bit it'll be a while before flex-screens are flexy and reliable enough to be rolled and unrolled ten thousand times.12:11
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mgedminfeh, rolling is 1D12:11
mgedminI want 2D resizing12:11
mgedmingrab a corner and stretch12:11
RST38htigert: a maemo-running moleskin!12:12
SpeedEvilyeah - 1D is almost good enough.12:12
SpeedEvilImagine a phone a bit longer than a n900, which you can extend the screen from the long edge to get a widescreen display.12:12
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tigertRST38h: :)12:12
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ccookeMorning, all12:21
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lardmanis it possible to remove libraries from the debianised list in ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} ?12:24
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lardmanTo build I need Python to create some bindings, but then Python is not necessary to run the main app, just the bindings, so it shouldn't be a run-time dep afaiu12:25
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lardmanalso, in the autobuilder, how can one tell what is being built for? I.e. Fremantle or Diablo12:28
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Jaffalardman: Build-Depends: maemo-version, and then check /etc/maemo_version12:33
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lardmanthanks Jaffa12:33
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_berto_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTy-qwYLF8I12:41
RST38hhttp://www.mobile-review.com/lj/2376.jpg12:41
RST38hHehe12:42
lardmanI'm thinking of adding something like libethos support to mbarcode so people can write plugins that appear in the app and use the barcode data12:42
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lardmando you reckon that's worth doing, or should I just send the data out over dbus?12:42
v2pxlol @ the "oh pls dont ever again make stupid aps in iphone style " comment12:42
RST38hlardman: With mbarcode, I would say dbus12:43
lardmanwould it not be a bit clunky needing two apps open all the time?12:43
RST38hDoes mbarcode have a UI now?12:43
RST38hor is it more like a daemon?12:43
lardmanyeah always has had12:44
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RST38hI would daemonize it in some way, like GPS thingie12:44
lardmanno has a ui, to allow you to see what you're scanning12:44
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TermanaMy Nokia N810 finally arrived :D rawr :D its much much smaller than I imagined12:45
lardmanStefan Kost has written a GStreamer element to use zbar, which could would serve that purpose I guess12:45
* RST38h is thinking how barcode acquisition can be integrated into an arbitrary app12:46
lardmanmost apps will need to have a ui to aim and trigger the camera at least12:46
StskeepsTermana: cool :)12:46
lardmanso may as well let plugins run in that app, was my thought12:46
TermanaStskeeps: Cant wait to try Mer on it :D lol12:47
TermanaIF I can even get the back cover back on :|12:47
wazdmaemo.org is finally fast? :)12:47
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RST38hlardman: how about the ui-less daemon that pops up a little viewfinder on dbus request and says "click on the viewfinder to scan the barcode?12:48
RST38hwazd: yea. right.12:48
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wazdRST38h: moo :)12:48
RST38hmoo, yea12:48
lardmanRST38h: I guess that would be workable, might be issues if an app is already using the camera though12:49
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Termanaany damn tips for getting the Nokia N810 cover back on :|12:49
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RST38htop first then the bottom afaik12:50
lardmanslide in at the top and press in the bottom12:50
RST38hlardman: then you return a error code12:50
lardmanthen jiggle a bit to get the latch to close12:50
lardmanRST38h: yes12:50
RST38hlardman: camera being unavailable is something the user has to take care about, not your problem12:51
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TermanaThanks guys, I got it :D I won't be taking that thing off anytime soon though12:51
MyrttiRST38h: http://github.com/dsample/mobilebarcoder12:53
Myrttioh, aqcuisition.12:53
Myrttinevermind12:53
* Myrtti hides12:53
Myrttienglish language understanding fail due to lack of sleep and head full of mucus12:54
* RST38h hunts for Myrtti with a preheated barcoder12:54
Myrttiooo warmth12:54
lardmannp :)12:54
Myrttican you point that thing to my ankles, they're freezing12:55
* SpeedEvil is warming up after going outside and working on cold wood.12:55
SpeedEvil~1C12:55
SpeedEvil:/12:55
RST38hyea, except that you may start triggering supermarket scanners afterward12:55
SpeedEvilAnd wet12:55
RST38hbadly exposed ankle - and you are 4.99 euros poorer =)12:56
Myrttiburkhas ftw12:56
Macerhm12:57
Macermake+gcc is pretty good on the mem12:57
Macer10% or so12:58
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Macerbitbake was like 80% on both :)12:58
* lardman curses his ssh connection12:59
lardmanor more accurately, Nautilus for not working with sftp13:00
lardmanI thought Nautilus had been replaced?13:00
Myrttiwith what?13:01
lardmandunno13:01
lardmansomething that works perhaps13:01
lardman;)13:01
lardmanRight, have uploaded new version of mbarcode for diablo users, pushed some changes to make sure it builds, and pushed zbar-0.10 to extras-devel for diablo (was already there for Fremantle)13:02
RST38hAmong the changes Asus has made to the device are the replacement of its 5in resistive touchscreen display with a capacitive panel. <--- that is asus keyboard13:02
wazdjeez! I just crapped my pants!13:03
wazdcause of that maemoproject stuff :D13:03
wazdcrazy finnish bastards :)13:03
lardmandoes anything happen?13:04
wazdyeah :D13:04
lardmanwow that's loud13:04
lardmanat about what time?13:04
wazd9m13:05
lardmanhmm, 7min to wait then :)13:05
tekojowazd what maemoproject ?13:05
wazdtekojo: http://www.maemoproject.com/13:06
tekojoDoes it now do something?13:06
v2pxhint: click it13:06
wazdtekojo: if you'll watch closely, you can notice n900 release date at about 9m mark13:06
RST38hlardman: Oh, THAT thing13:07
tekojo9m mark? don't get it13:07
RST38hwazd: Oh THAT thing13:07
RST38hwazd: They say that you can find 2500+ varieties of mushrooms in Finnish forests...13:07
jaskaom nom nom13:07
wazdtekojo: about 9 minutes13:07
wazdtekojo: there's a timer13:08
tekojoRST38h yes, and some of them are excellent!13:08
lardmanand 99% make you create strange videos?13:08
jaska1up shrooms13:08
tekojoI need to drink coffee for nine minutes?13:08
RST38htekojo: ...as this video clearly indicates13:08
wazdtekojo: for 8:30 :)13:08
lardmanmust have been a quiet day at Nokia HQ, no-one using a perfectly serviceable meeting room13:08
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wazdI failed to make a shot but there's really n900 release date there13:09
RST38hwazd: So what is it? =)13:09
tekojooh, I need to watch it then too13:09
lardmanis there any guidance about how to make your app rotate?13:09
RST38hyep13:10
wazdRST38h: I was too surprised to see it, don't remember :D13:10
RST38hlardman: A moment13:10
murraychttp://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Finding_Out_The_Current_Hardware_Orientation13:10
murraycIt's no fun.13:10
lardmanthanks13:10
RST38hthis is not sufficient13:10
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lardman7m50s, getting excited now!13:11
lardmanall the coffee I've drunk13:11
wazdlardman: stay focused, I just saw "You'll see n900 at ..."13:12
wazdlardman: missed the actual date13:12
v2px:>13:12
lardmanat 9m I saw something odd on the table, nothing else13:13
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RST38hlardman: http://repo.or.cz/w/gpodder.git?a=blob;f=src/gpodder/gtkui/frmntl/portrait.py13:14
wazdlardman: no sound I guess? :D13:14
lardmanhmm, at 10m it starts again13:14
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lardmanyeah sound, but just gobledeegook13:14
Robot101dd if=/dev/coffee of=/dev/robot101 bs=1cup count=113:14
wazdlardman: damn, you're boring :D13:14
lardmanRST38h: thanks13:15
wazdlardman: and cold blooded :)13:15
lardmanwazd: should I have actually seen/heard something, not feeling too hot so perhaps I didn't hear it13:15
wazdlardman: ofcourse not :)13:15
wazdlardman: this is the fake scene from "Paranormal Activity" movie :)13:16
lardmanah, well another useful 10m of my life wasted then ;)13:16
RST38hhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/04/asa_ruling/13:16
lardmanah, not seen that13:16
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wazdlardman: that "something" was dog :)13:16
* RST38h suddenly understands that he is to blame for this promo video13:16
RST38hShould not have been quoting SCP at #maemo with so many Nokians around.13:17
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jaska:D13:18
lardmanhmm, so what should I do to replace a gtk_notebook?13:18
lardmanI'm not so keen on the idea of panning, as each notebook page should really be separate13:19
lardmanwho does the desktop do its view switching?13:19
RST38hlardman: afaik you are now supposed to pan13:20
lardmansideways?13:20
RST38hyea13:20
lardmanthat would work13:20
lardmanas long as it pans one page at a time13:20
RST38halso look at addressbook in vertical mode13:21
RST38h(go to phone, switch to vertical layout, press "select contact")13:21
lardmanI don't want a panning listview though13:21
lardmanor can I place each of my "frames" in a listview?13:22
lardmanhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Migration: Because the use of notebooks is not advised in Hildon, the way to migrate a Maemo 4 dialog with notebook to Maemo 5, is to simply put all the items inside a single pannable dialog.13:22
lardmannot quite what I was after13:22
mgedminlardman, the ui guidelines suggest replacing notebooks in dialogs with one long vertical list of fields13:22
mgedminwhat is your use case?13:22
RST38hlardman: developer guide mostly suggests brain damaged approaches at the moment :(13:22
lardmanmgedmin: my main window currently uses a notebook to separate out the acquisition view from the db view from the search view, etc13:23
lardmanI should add I hate GUIs, so this was just expedient13:23
RST38hoh I know!13:24
mgedminstackable windows!13:24
qwerty12lardman: Filter buttons in the menu? Would get annoying though, rather quickly..13:24
RST38hlardman: Use a bunch of filter items in the menu13:24
RST38hheh13:24
* qwerty12 gets the point13:24
lardmanhmm, having to tap twice everywhere would indeed be annoying13:24
mgedmintree structure: main window with buttons for "acquire", "browse", "search"13:24
lardmanif I could do the desktop-style swipe to get to the next page, that would work13:25
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RST38hI have a better idea13:25
mgedminmaemo 5 tends to make the user tap twice as much as before13:25
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mgedmingiven my experience with the desktop, horizontal swipe to pan _doesn't work_13:25
RST38hHow about a vertical strip of buttons at the right side of the screen for switching views?13:25
* qwerty12 just uses a bunch of GtkToggleButtons on the dialog itself. Same vein as a GtkNotebook, but at least the buttons can be hit by fingers...13:25
mgedmin40% of the time it wiggles and snaps back to the same view13:25
RST38hyea, swipes are overrated13:25
lardmanmgedmin: works well for me, but then that's just me13:25
mgedminI assume I'm not using enough force13:26
RST38hmostly dirties the screen for me13:26
lardmanRST38h, qwerty12: yeah, then I may as well just use a notebook and be done with it ;)13:26
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RST38halso, scratching across the whole screen with your nails is scary :)13:26
lardmanbut mgedmin is right, perhaps I should go for a load of views which can be opened from each other13:27
lardmanoh the pain of using GUIs13:27
qwerty12friendliness13:27
qwerty12Eh13:27
mgedminconsistency is valuable13:27
mgedmin(up to a point, anyway)13:27
lardman-h always gives you help, what more do you need? ;)13:27
Macerblah13:27
qwerty12lardman: Oh, been using dh_make -h a lot? ;)13:28
tigertlardman: what app?13:28
lardmandh_make is a waste of time13:28
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Macerstill building this touchbook kernel from Stskeeps' mer kernel srv13:28
Macersrc13:28
lardmantigert: mbarcode13:28
tigertlardman: see how browser does it? its a compromise too, but it has a menu with N items13:28
tigerteach opens a dialog with more buttons13:28
tigertno wait13:28
tigertits not quite the same case though13:28
lardmanI'm talking about the main view, not a menu/dialog though13:28
tigertgot a screenshot?13:28
tigertor is it in repo?13:29
lardmanno, is here though: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/mbarcode/13:29
lardmanI need to debianise it13:29
qwerty12lardman: If your application is better suited using a GtkNotebook, then use it. Nokia are not exactly holier than thou in this respect (look at the advanced settings in connectivity)13:29
lardmanyeah13:29
qwerty12+dialog13:29
tigertlardman: got a screenshot?13:30
lardmanhang on, let me find a device13:30
lardmanwhat was the magic keypress to screenshots?13:30
murraycqwerty12: I think that UI is just something that they forgot or didn't have time to fix. It's quite awful.13:31
qwerty12murrayc: Good point. Wonder if they actually will get around to fixing it, though...13:31
mgedminlardman, ctrl+shift+p13:31
tigertqwerty12: the connection settings is not using maemo5 stuff much at all13:31
murraycqwerty12: We could file a bug.13:31
RST38hfile a bug for the pdf viewer as well then13:31
tigertwell, notes and sketch13:32
qwerty12murrayc: I still find the use of depreciated widgets by Nokia fun. Look at the Display control panel applet13:32
lardmanmgedmin: thanks13:32
qwerty12*deprecated13:32
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* murrayc tries not to rant again about the need to ifdef just to get the correct appearance.13:32
tigertqwerty12: other option would have been to fix them and ship it next christmas :)13:33
tigertbut yeah, those apps are an eyesore13:33
qwerty12tigert: True. :) It just doesn't give the idea of a consistent UI :)13:33
tigertit doesnt13:33
tigertthats why we fixed those things first that the user sees most13:34
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RST38hthe current GUI guidelines artifically limit functionality13:34
tigertlike I never really did much in connectivity settings myself13:34
tigertsomeone likely will, but most people dont13:34
RST38hit make more sense to fix the guidelines first13:34
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RST38hAdd back the submenus. Add back the pager of some kind.13:34
RST38hNot just say "you should simplify your UI and minimize the number of options"13:35
tigertnah13:35
tigertsubmenus suck13:35
RST38hDepends on how you implement them13:35
tigertbrowser has them implemented with dialogs in settings13:35
tigertit works ok13:35
tigertI think nested submenus are cumbersome13:35
lardmanhttp://share.ovi.com/album/lardman.Random13:35
lardmanfinally13:35
RST38hBrowser has got several seemingly randomly named menu items13:35
RST38htigert: Consider this possible implementation:13:36
qwerty12On the talk of Browser, will the Addons page stay as-is?13:36
RST38htigert: Maemo5 already implements a special menu item called the Filter13:36
tigertRST38h: everyone also has an opinion about the browser :/13:36
SpeedEvilI don't.13:36
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* SpeedEvil clicks order status page on nokia.co.uk again.13:36
tigertRST38h: yeah this could work too, though its not used anywhere else, but an interesting thought13:36
RST38htigert: What if we assume the top menu level being the filter items and submenus being the actual menu13:36
tigertRST38h: like tabbed menu :)13:36
RST38htigert: Yep13:37
RST38htigert: Allows one level of submenus, does not look ugly feels ok13:37
tigertlardman: yay, ovi share :)13:37
qwerty12RST38h: Tear actually does it like this13:37
lardmanI thought I should at least try it ;)13:37
suihkulokkitigert: talking about submenus, try to get to the menu where the "power managment" setting for a wifi ap is selected...13:37
RST38htigert: About the browser, I am actually pretty positive on it, but the current menu items sound arbitrary13:37
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lardmanbbiam13:38
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RST38hsuihkulokki: This is as much about submenus as it is about braindamaged dialogs layout13:39
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RST38hsuihkulokki: Where dialog boxes are no longer usable for most config dialogs (you have to use stackable windows for them)13:39
tigertlardman|gone: I think that ui needs a complete rethought. is that preferences or the actual UI? :)13:39
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qwerty12RST38h: I'm still not sure why dialog buttons should not be on the bottom. I mean, it works well for toolbars :)13:43
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tigertqwerty12: because we thought it is more important to get one extra row in dialog lists13:45
RST38hqwerty: Same here. I think they have been trying to reimplement S60 simple dialogs13:45
tigertinstead of wide content (when the screen is widescreen aspect already)13:45
tigertand we got rid of the maemo4 task navigator / toolbar thingy in the left13:45
RST38htigert: :(13:45
tigertso dialog content is kinda same width than in maemo4 even when buttons on the right13:46
RST38hyea but the screen became physically smaller!13:46
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tigerta bit yeah13:46
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RST38hso the end result is that the old styled dialogs became too small13:47
RST38hthe new styled dialogs do not allow pages and require a lot of scrolling with huge percentage of false clicks in the process13:47
RST38hI guess the best solution (under current constraints) would be to give dialogs the full screen and have a couple of transparen buttons labelled with arrows (OK and BACK) at the corner, like MicroB has13:48
clmntchgood morning13:49
mgedminbtw maemo 5 dialog content area is a teeeny bit narrower than in maemo 413:49
mgedminwhich you notice in fbreader's dialogs where some fields become invisible13:50
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tigertit is not that much smaller really13:53
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RST38hit is physically smaller13:53
tigertsome extra width came from removing task navigator panel13:53
tigertso are widgets13:53
tigertbut yeah13:53
RST38hbut not my fingers or the stylus :)13:54
RST38hthese are unfortunately of fixed width13:54
tigertdiet? :)13:54
* tigert RUS13:54
tigertRUNS even13:54
tigerta finger-sharpener would be useful sometimes13:54
RST38hor that special door at Nokia HQ that they used on lcuk =)13:54
tigertespecially with the browser13:54
mgedminsome sandpaper could help with the size of the stylus13:54
tigertheh yeah13:54
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v2pxwhat size can the microSD be for the n900?13:58
RST38hWell, I have fixed the menu-hangs-tablet-hard-when-player-running bug13:59
RurouniJones16gb isn't it?13:59
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RST38h3213:59
RurouniJonesOo they upeed it?13:59
auenfas big as microsdhc goes13:59
RurouniJonesupped13:59
RST38hIt is a dirty hack (I do not shut down sound when losing focus with menu activated) but it will prevent the hangups for now13:59
RurouniJonesAll the marketing stuff said 32gb expandable to 48 with mem card.14:00
v2pxhmm but this says 16g: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications14:00
auenfcause only 16gb cards were available14:00
RurouniJonesAh right14:00
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auenfmicrosdxc starts at 64gb?14:00
SpeedEvilAIUI, yes.14:00
SpeedEvilSDHC runs out of steam at 32.14:01
SpeedEvilI haven't found out if SDXC includes a backwards compatible mode with SDHC controllers. It should be a simple driver change if it does14:01
auenfartificially limited to 32GB14:03
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auenfXC will require XC compliant devices14:03
v2pxand what is the best sdhc manufacturer? :P14:03
auenfjust get sandisk14:03
v2pxalright, thx14:04
javispedrothank god #5524 (aka "they killed pulseaudio!" bug) is now "critical".14:05
RST38hjavispedro: thank Jaffa not god14:06
RST38hjavispedro: I actually implemented a temporal fix in my stuff14:06
javispedronot closing the pulse stream?14:06
javispedro:)14:06
RST38hjavis: Only when the application menu is active14:07
RST38hjavis: I left the rest as it is, so still hangs up on exit14:08
javispedroI don't want to even imagine what they did to pulse.14:08
javispedroyour post about silence when the media player is on scares me.14:08
RST38hjavis: You have not noticed?14:08
javispedroidonthaveann900...14:08
RST38hIt does not seem to mix, at least the pa_simple_* stuff14:08
javispedropuaj.14:08
javispedroit's weird.14:09
javispedrothe media player is not supposed to use pulse..14:09
javispedroon n810 media player output went straight to one of the three dsp channels14:09
javispedro(the other two were reserved for esd output and alsa)14:09
javispedrogood luck to whoever maintains pulse at nokia...14:10
RST38hthere is an interesting corollary of this bug14:10
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javispedro"if it's not broken don't fix it"? :D14:10
javispedros/fix/touch14:11
RST38hWhen application shows a menu, you can neither go into task switcher nor shut application down with the "app not responding" dialog14:11
RST38hSo, if an app hangs in the menu, you are fucked.14:11
javispedroah, like in desktop linux.14:11
RST38hreally???14:11
javispedroyep..14:11
javispedroshowing a menu gets a global pointer lock14:11
javispedrothus if the app hangs after getting the cursor lock, you're stuck.14:12
* RST38h facepalms14:12
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javispedrothe "workaround" here was "don't do anything that could hang after having shown a menu", which is basically what you did.14:14
RST38hyep14:15
* RST38h watches god turn the lights off behind his window14:15
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Termanain s14:21
Termanadamn it14:21
Termanain desktop linux if it hangs at the menu i've been able to exit the app14:22
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* VDVsx steals andre__ 's bottle of wine :P14:23
andre__hey, I still need that one for breakfast!14:23
javispedroTermana: how? It will grab the pointer and steal all click events14:24
javispedrothe only one I found to get out is to kill the offending app from ssh / term14:24
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javispedro(linux term, not xterm of course)14:24
Termanamaybe i'm imagening things14:24
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wazd_wow, I caught first BSOD in a year14:40
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wazd_ironicaly, yesterday I've installed SP214:40
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javispedroyes!, yes!, yes!14:48
Termanavista sp2?14:48
aquatixaka win7?14:48
javispedroI got VMGL working. now to try if Fremante SDK works with it.14:49
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t_s_ohmm, how much space do microb take up on the N8x0 firmware?14:49
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* RST38h found a way to upload screenshots to maemo.org Doanloads14:54
RST38hjavis: Care to guess what it is? ;)14:54
javispedrodoes it consist in telnet and writing POST HTTP/1.1 ? :)14:54
RST38halmost14:55
javispedroheh.14:55
RST38hyou have to open the Edit Product page in IE8 *running in IE6 compat mode*14:55
javispedrolol14:55
RST38hthen it seems to work14:55
RST38hAny version of FireFox or IE7/IE8 - and it times out14:56
javispedrodid you try with a real IE6?14:56
RST38hYes, but only through a proxy14:56
javispedroso it's true what they say. qwerty uses IE6 :)14:56
RST38hIt also times out, with less probability14:56
Termanadoes microb cache pages?14:56
javispedroit has a 5MiB cache iirc.14:56
javispedroit does not cache as agressively as your average desktop though. the back button always requests the page here.14:56
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mgedminalmost always14:57
RST38hjavis: Now, the next guy who tells me it is "server load related" gets murdered.14:57
mgedminthere was that one time when it didn't14:57
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wazdtorrent seeders: 11210 | Download speed: 8 kb/s14:57
mgedminRST38h, it was just a coincidence that the server responded quicker when you were using IE814:57
wazdwhat the hell...14:58
mgedminor maybe a Microsoft load balancer prioritising IE requests somewhere in the infrastructure14:58
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RST38hmgedmin: Given that I made several attempts over two days and IE8-IE6-mode always worked while FF did not...14:58
* javispedro causes a stack overflow by making the GL wrapper wrap the GL wrapper which wraps the GL wrapper that wraps the GL wrapper that14:58
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RST38hjavis: ....that tells you in nice 3D letters: 0fps14:59
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Termanayo dawg...14:59
javispedroit would be better than software rendering at least.14:59
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javispedrohttp://maemo.pastebin.com/d25a311cc15:00
javispedrohehehe15:00
RST38hoh...so two wrappers are wrapping each other?15:01
javispedroexactly.15:01
javispedroinstead of one of the two deciding to call the remote stub15:01
Macerthe saga continues15:01
Macerstill building a kernel on my touchbook heh15:01
mgedmin"you do it", "no, you do it"15:01
Macerin soviet russia we use arm for building, not cross compiler15:02
javispedroin soviet russia and in gentoo :)15:02
Maceri wouldn't even try gentoo on this thing :)15:02
Macerit would be chaos15:02
javispedrook, I'm near! I'm near!15:03
javispedroyes!!!!!!!!!!!15:03
javispedroyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!115:03
Macerjavispedro: uhm15:03
* aquatix hands javispedro a tissue15:03
javispedrofinally 3D accelerated xephyr.15:03
Macerfound out how to get your n810 to project a girlfriend?15:03
Maceroh wow.. really??15:03
Macerthat's amazing15:03
wazdhaha, can't use it in VM :D15:03
* tigert wishes for stretchable xephyr15:03
Macerwith mgx drivers or something?15:03
tigertbut yeah, no luck for that in vmware :(15:04
javispedroVMGL, uses host 3D drivers AND works with nvidia propietary drivers15:04
javispedroand yes, you can use it in a VM15:04
tigertjavispedro: url?15:04
javispedrowhat url!15:04
Macerjavispedro: hahaha15:04
javispedroI just got it work.15:04
tigert:)15:04
Macerwhat is the point  ? :)15:04
MyrttiURL OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN15:04
tigertPACKAGES. NOW.15:04
tigert:)15:04
SpeedEvilcan xepher do disconnects and reconnects to other heads?15:04
Myrtti*splört*15:04
tigerteww15:04
lardman_speaking of 3Dness, what's the status of the PowerVR stuff?15:04
Macerjavispedro: if you can't do it on your n810 then why bother? :)15:04
aquatixMyrtti: lol15:05
mgedminyeah, haven't those two weeks already passed?15:05
lardman_feels like it15:05
javispedroMacer: cause I can finally watch the fremantle 3d transitions in non slow-mo15:05
Maceroh. n900 devel?15:05
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Maceri figured you were doing it so people can use opengles on their n810s finally15:05
Macer:)15:05
mgedminI wish I could watch some fremantle 3d transmissions in fast-motion on the n90015:05
javispedroMacer: haha, I wish. Where are those 3d drivers??? :)(15:06
mgedminspecifically, the "flip around, go get a cup of coffee, flip back" transition from portrait to landscape and vice versa15:06
Macerjavispedro: heh.. well. they were SUPPOSED to be making it out there15:06
Macerwho knows though15:06
aquatixmgedmin: will be fixed in harmattan15:06
* aquatix runs15:06
Maceri think they are worried people will buy $150 n810s off ebay than n900s15:06
Macer:)15:06
lardman_aquatix: lol15:06
javispedrothe orangeness is still there. But I already knew that.15:07
lardman_aquatix: probably will be, as they use more acceleration in Qt15:07
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javispedro~seen Firebird15:08
infobotfirebird <n=Firebird@pool-138-88-201-253.res.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19h 18m 18s ago, saying: 'oh, thanks GeneralAntilles...'.15:08
javispedrohmpf.15:08
javispedrowell, going to eat. see you.15:08
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kulvelardman_: Ameet said that the drivers will be released in 2-3 weeks. It's now been 3.5 weeks15:09
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derfPlease allow 4-6 weeks for delivery.15:10
lardman_kulve: thanks15:10
mgedminyou know the algorithm for estimates: multiply by two and shift units to the next level15:10
mgedminso, 4 months15:10
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RST38hjavis, qwerty, Jaffa: Ok, take a look here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=552415:15
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RST38hI have done some research15:15
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RST38hMoo, derf15:16
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derf?15:16
JaffaRST38h: Looks like a reasonable analysis15:16
RST38hHello, I mean.15:16
RST38hJaffa: Someone willing to compile pulseaudio and try it with printf()s is needed15:16
derfOh, it had been so long since I'd said something I'd forgotten I had.15:17
RST38hJaffa: about 40 minutes of work, given that you have the environment set up (I do not, with SB2 etc)15:18
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JaffaRST38h: No appropriate environment here, I'm afraid.15:18
RST38hJaffa: VDVsx or qwerty might be able to do it15:19
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AndrewFBlackAnyone else get message that application failed to install when it did install on there N900?15:31
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mgedminAndrewFBlack, what application, and what does the log say?15:32
* mgedmin bets the app failed in postinst15:33
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ablack_mgedmin, lots, about 80% of what I've installed I will have to check the log15:37
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mgedminare you sure you're not running out of disk space?15:38
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mgedminI had a bunch of "failures" when the app installed, ran gtk-update-icon-cache, which complained about being out of disk space15:38
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RST38hmgedmin: known bug15:39
cocaydenanybody having issues running apt-get update in scratchbox?15:39
RST38hmgedmin: #545015:40
mgedmingaaah, please, somebody write a bug-number-to-clickable-link bot15:40
Jaffathat'd be cool15:42
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* mgedmin reads about http://code.google.com/p/supybot-bugzilla/15:46
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* RST38h ready to kill tracker15:50
RST38huseless thing... who said I want to have my files indexed?15:51
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fiferboyRST38h: Are you using tracker for any programming, or is it just getting in the way?15:51
RST38hgetting in the way15:51
mgedminbug 545015:51
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450 major, High, ---, nobody@maemo.org, NEW, Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space15:51
mgedminta-dah!15:51
RST38hcoooool15:52
VDVsxeeheh15:52
fiferboywhoa!15:52
RST38hand let us see if bug 5450 works like this15:52
VDVsxRST38h, btw, I don't have last sbox installed :(15:52
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RST38hvdvsx: no fremantle sdk?15:52
fiferboybug 603515:53
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6035 enhancement, Low, ---, andrew.olmsted@gmail.com, NEW, Make better use of the widget space15:53
RST38hyohoho15:53
VDVsxRST38h, I've beta 215:53
RST38hvdvsx: by all means upgrade15:53
RST38hvdvsx: it is useful even if you are not planning to look at pa15:53
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Jaffamgedmin: Should pick out #(\d{3,4}) wherever it appears in the text (and why 'pov'?)15:55
mgedminpov is the name of the company I work for; the bots' original purpose was to log our irc channel15:55
JaffaAh15:55
mgedminI don't see a regexp among the plugin's options15:56
JaffaOf course, pov in the fqdn15:56
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mgedmin#603515:57
mgedminnope15:57
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mgedminthe regexp is r"(?P<url>https?://\S+/)show_bug.cgi\?id=(?P<bug>\w+)"15:57
mgedminno it isn't15:57
mgedminr"""\b((?P<install>\w+)\b\s*)?(?P<type>bug|attachment)\b[\s#]*(?P<id>\d+)"""15:57
RST38hjaffa: sure you want such a chatty bot?15:58
jooonmgedmin: that took you ten minutes to implement? good job :)16:00
jooonthe bug thing...16:00
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mgedminjooon, for values of "implement" meaning google up the plugin, check it out, configure it by chatting to the bot16:05
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wazd_bug 66616:08
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Problems with Javascript setTimeout function16:08
wazd_meheheh16:08
Macerhttp://pastebin.com/d6c29f00516:13
Macercan someone explain that one to me?16:13
Maceri don't really know why the usb stuff is making the kernel stop its build16:13
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lardman_where does omap_dm_timer_*() live?16:15
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VDVsxwazd_, everybody knows that javascript is evil :P16:16
Macerlardman: i honestly don't know.16:16
Maceri have been looking through everything and been trying to tweak the kernel but can't find out where it is losing it16:16
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Maceri'm going to disable usb altogether and see if it builds to see if there is maybe an option i am missing when trying to build it16:17
lardmanarch/arm/plat-omap/dmtimer.c16:17
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Macerso is it a problem with the actual code in dmtimer.c?16:18
Macerthat is beyond me then :)16:18
lardmanyou need another object file linked in16:19
lardmanbut why it's not being, I've no idea16:19
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lardmanin fact you probably need yet another to handle the twl4030_i2c_write_u8() stuff too, I imgaine that will be somewhere else16:20
lardmanis that the start of the build?16:20
VDVsxseems that maemo.org people are receiving nice e-mails ;) : http://pastebin.com/m64dde61e16:21
lardmanstrange that it's trying to link everything together there, or is that how it's done?16:21
lardmanlol16:21
javispedroVDVsx: lol16:21
lardmanwhere was that sent to?16:21
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VDVsxlardman, got it on twitter from yerga ;)16:22
VDVsxseems that zerojay received it as well ;)16:22
lbtaww, they let the nokians out :)16:22
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JaffaRST38h: Not sure16:24
javispedrolol, the know their targets well (high karma)16:24
javispedros/the/they16:24
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RST38hVDVsx: KILL KILL16:24
* VDVsx bets that Jaffa, Quim and Tim have received one too ;)16:25
* javispedro bets that someone replied16:25
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Macerblah. looks like i am going to have to break down and just use my debian box16:26
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RST38hTouchBook 1 : Macer 016:26
Macerwhat is it that makes doing stuff like thsi natively on arm so difficult?16:26
MacerRST38h: haha16:26
RST38hMacer: Memory bandwidth.16:26
fiferboyHi wazd_16:26
RST38hCoupled with miniscule cache sizes16:27
MacerRST38h: arm 20 macer 016:27
* javispedro doesn't have enough karma for "this guy".16:27
Maceryou missed my n810 fun earlier maybe? :)16:27
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MacerRST38h: yeah but a kernel isn't that much to build16:27
Macerprobably takes 45mins on a 600MHz arm16:27
RST38hBuilding stuff is CPU/disk/memory intensive. So just cross build16:27
Macerif it can make it all the way16:28
MacerRST38h: that is complacency talking :)16:28
RST38hNo, just cynical practicality16:28
javispedroRST38h: "handle SIGARLM ignore" in gdb16:28
RST38hYou have got that steaming Intel box that will run circles around your ARM16:29
javispedroer... nothing, sorry.16:29
RST38hNot because it is better, necessarily, but because it has been built with different goals in mind16:29
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RST38hSo why not use that box? Why try riding cockroaches?16:29
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RST38hjavis: that was strace, can't do that :)16:30
javispedroyeah, noticed it late :)16:30
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javispedrothe trace is hardly useful though. not all futex operations show up there.16:31
MacerRST38h: i think i am finally going to have to agree with you on this one :)16:31
Macerlet me start up the debian vm16:31
javispedroeven though it proves there's something blocked waiting for one.16:31
Macerer.. vbox16:31
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Jaffajavispedro: I think my spam filter caught it16:32
javispedrolol.16:32
RST38hjavis: I suspect that the main business happened when I oopened the menu, but it does not show up in the strace16:32
javispedromy spam filter caught quite a few of the tmo post notifications.16:33
* lardman ponders what's wrong with his code16:33
* javispedro receives spam with subject "Stop sitting near computer, let's go out"16:34
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RST38hlardman: You wrote it in FORTRAN? =)16:37
lardmanno, C, but FORTRAN might have been a better bet16:37
fiferboylardman: Did you get the packaging sorted out?16:37
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lardmanfiferboy: yes, thanks16:37
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lardmanfiferboy: or at least sorted enough that it built ok16:38
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fiferboylardman: So packaging works.  Now you just need the code to work? ;)16:38
fiferboyOr is this different code?16:38
lardmanoh no, this is day job16:38
lardmanFDE code16:38
fiferboyAh, that doesn't matter so much then16:38
lardmanlol, nah16:38
lardmanhmm, still need to test emerillon once it gets into extras-devel to see if ethos is working properly with its update16:39
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fiferboyIs it building now?  Or waiting for import16:39
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qwerty12lardman: I'd say "if it gets into extras-devel"... :p16:40
* qwerty12 hides16:40
lardmanoi, it said it build ok16:40
fiferboyThere should be a bot that tracks how many times qwerty12 ducks or hides16:40
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lardmanhe'll have back problems when he hits his teens16:41
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lardmanwhile I do like it that App Manager gives some feedback that it's doing something now, what on earth is it actually doing that tajkes this long!?16:43
qwerty12Giving the feedback16:43
RST38hlardman: Updating repo lists16:44
RST38hfrom the network16:44
lardmanyay, emerillon now working16:44
lardmanjust needs hildonificationeration16:44
RST38hBetter tell me: when you start app manager and immediately click on Updates, does it disappear for you? And then reappear?16:44
lardmanRST38h: just seems to take a loooong time16:45
qwerty12lardman: Oh, while we're are on the subject of the Application Manager, it also uses a GtkNotebook in its Details dialog. And I see its interface is pretty "Fremantleized"...16:45
lardmanRST38h: what the focus goes to the app behind it?16:45
RST38hlardman: depends on the number of enabled repos and their responsiveness16:45
lardmanyeah that happens for all apps for me16:45
RST38hlardman: Yes16:45
fiferboyGtkNotebook!  I thought those were outlawed...16:45
RST38hOnly happens for App Manager here16:45
RST38hthe hell they are...16:45
* RST38h gloomily looks over the memory page cache implementation16:46
qwerty12Double standards, boys, double standards :-)16:46
fiferboyNot even qwerty12 uses GtkNotebook, and he loves deprecated widgets16:46
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qwerty12I still continue to use deprecated widgets because Nokia continue to do the same16:46
RST38hfiferboy: When the Style Guide finally covers all common UI use scenarios, we will all drop old widgets16:47
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Myrttiwrongdoings of others do not justify yours16:47
Myrtti;-)16:47
RST38hfiferboy: Until then, screw 'em16:47
qwerty12That said, considering Maemo 6 will use Qt, how exactly will these widgets be dropped16:47
lardmanno, I'd do wrong even if they didn't16:47
mgedminqwerty12, wholesale16:47
qwerty12Myrtti: Bah, I follow the crowd :-)16:47
RST38hqwerty: They do not have to be dropped16:47
Myrtticheeky bastards16:47
fiferboyI'll settle for the widget gallery for maemo5 showing maemo5 widgets instead of maemo416:47
clmntchhrm16:47
RST38hqwerty: Just reimplemented in Qt16:47
javispedroqwerty12: that means RST38h is right, all widgets will be dropped :)16:47
pw_1234when do developers get time to go over old code and change wholesale things like widget choice?16:48
lardmanyeah, a subtle ploy to get us using Qt now16:48
RST38hjavis: Will we finally switch to javascript based UI with Qt? =)~~16:48
* RST38h hides16:48
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pw_1234class qtwidget{ import gtkwidget };16:48
javispedroya well! I will only use KDE with my dead cold fingers!16:48
* lardman wonders what the logic behind the checking for updates progress bar is....?16:48
RST38hlardman: step = 100/number-of-repos ?16:49
lardmanapparently not16:49
RST38hActually not16:49
RST38hIt starts the bar progress anew for each repo16:49
lardmanstep = 0.5; do something and get stuck in a loop16:49
lardmanwhy does it get stuck when I can run apt-get update from the command line without problems16:50
mgedmincommand-line apt also has a very interesting progress bar16:50
mgedminit's as if current_step increases steadily, but the total_number_of_steps increases in leaps every now and then16:51
pw_1234mgedmin: yeah as it finds out it has additional work in each repo it must adjust the bar to compensate16:51
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pw_1234most progress indicators do the same16:51
lardmanat least I can see it doing something on the command line16:51
mgedminmost progress indicators are lying to me16:52
pw_123497% of statistics are made up on the spot16:52
RST38hthese are not statistics16:53
RST38hjust some animated trinket to prevent you from destroying your device after the 7-secondwait period =)16:53
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javispedro7 second wait? this is 2009. a iphone user would burn the device after 2 seconds of "no farts".16:54
Myrttiput a picture of a cheesecake on the screen16:55
Myrttithey'll look at it mesmerized and won't notice the time fly16:55
mgedminI get the urges to burn something every time I scroll the web browser and tap on something only to have it redraw with a different content a few milliseconds later16:55
derfI'm sure AppMan could be made to fart while it updated.16:55
lardmanaaaargh, why do I have to wait 10s for the list of catalogues to appear16:55
RST38hMyrtti: Only if cheesecake smiles at them =)16:55
mgedminmicrob + google reader == aaaaaaaugh!16:55
mgedminlardman: apt is amazingly slow, even on desktops16:56
RST38hmgedmin: hehe ;)16:56
MyrttiRST38h: alternatively, a picture of a chihuahua http://cuteoverload.com/2009/11/04/fiesta-deck-or-promenade-deck/16:56
lardmanmgedmin: this is in the App Manager, when I want to add/remove them16:56
* mgedmin is still waiting for somebody with sufficient resources to notice that problem and set out to fix it16:56
mgedminwell, app manager uses apt as the backend, doesn't it?16:57
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mgedminand when I said apt I meant the whole infrastructure rather than the tool16:57
RST38hMyrtti: Static stuff does not work, usually. Has to be a dancing chihuahua16:57
lardmanmgedmin: fair enough16:57
RST38hMyrtti: I have got an idea: http://r33b.net/16:57
MyrttiRST38h: yeah, that would wo.... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD16:58
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RST38hMyrtti: Oh. Shit. http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:HypnotoadIRL.jpg16:59
RST38hIT LIVES!16:59
qwerty12KILL THE FUCKER16:59
SpeedEvilhttp://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Hypnofish.PNG17:00
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RST38h[carefully] It looks like the Tentacled One's ambassador. Are you sure you want to kill it?17:00
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qwerty12Hmm, yes, you are right. I do not wish to kill it. Killing the Tentacled One instead would be much more satisfactory17:01
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qwerty12Then the pieces can be served at the next Summit17:02
SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Psychedelic_frogfish_-_face_08Am3b.jpg17:02
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RST38hRecless they are, who wish to harm the Tentacled One...17:03
mihuIs there a gdbserver available for remote debugging on the N900`17:07
javispedrohum. bolognese...17:08
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javispedro"Somalia has the highest number of Pirates AND the lowest Carbon emissions of any country."17:11
javispedrothe Tentacled One will be pretty happy I guess.17:12
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lardmanlol17:14
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RST38hjavis: That is not where he lives though17:15
qwerty12RST38h: He doesn't have to: He'll be kidnapped and taken there17:15
lardmanhe's omnipresent isn't he?17:15
qwerty12And I'd like to see him escape from 1001 AK-47s17:16
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lardmanhe's got frikkin tentacles17:16
javispedroI like to see him escape from MY fork17:16
qwerty12Mmm, Cthulhu on toast...17:16
mgedminmihu, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Debugging_Guide#Preparing_Internet_Tablet_for_Debugging17:17
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suihkulokki16:55 < mgedmin> microb + google reader == aaaaaaaugh!17:17
mgedminyes, suihkulokki17:17
suihkulokkimgedmin: use the iphone version of google reader17:17
mgedminI am17:17
mgedminthe 'aagh' is because google reader resizes divs or iframes or whatever it has there17:17
mgedminand microb shows old contents while you're panning17:17
mgedminthen redraws new contents on top of them17:17
mgedminwhich is very disconcerning17:17
mgedmin*disconcerting17:18
suihkulokkilooks fine to me when panning17:18
mihumgedmin: Great. Thanks!17:18
javispedrook.17:18
javispedroso if I unpacked nearly a gigabyte of source packages, changing random files in them, and now want to produce a proper patch... something installable by a mortal...17:19
mgedminsuihkulokki, try opening a looong post, deciding you'll read it later, pan all the way down to find the [x] mark as read, click on it, pan all the way back up to find the next post17:19
javispedroconsidering most of the edited files were edited only to add "fprintf(stderr..." of key variables...17:20
mgedminI'd take a screencast, but load-applet records only a blank screen17:20
mgedminhm17:20
qwerty12mgedmin: There's a fix for that: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=341807&postcount=817:21
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mgedminactually, panning back up is not necessary17:22
mgedminjust try to read the posts in order17:22
mgedminI want a native app :/17:22
suihkulokkimgedmin: what "mark as read" ?17:23
mgedminjust forget the marking as read part17:23
suihkulokkiin the bottom of a post I see share/note/email/keep unread17:24
mgedminhttp://mg.pov.lt/n900-microb-panning-bug.png17:25
mgedminthe picture looks like this while I'm holding my finger down17:25
mgedminas soon as I lift it, the screen is redrawn properly17:25
mgedminhttp://mg.pov.lt/n900-microb-panning-no-bug.png17:26
RST38hwhere is the bug?17:27
RST38hoh I see17:27
mgedminbottom half of the page is not redrawn17:27
mgedminuntil I release my finger17:27
javispedrohttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=365424#post36542417:27
RST38hWell, you do know that you are looking at the buffer shared between MicroB and browserd?17:28
RST38hSo this means browserd has not redrawn the bottom part yet17:28
mgedminright17:28
mgedminbut it's not redrawing it!17:28
mgedminit's waiting for me to stop panning and release the touchscreen17:28
RST38hprobably has not been told to redraw yet, most likely to prevent excessive redrawing17:29
mgedminit should draw when it's idle17:29
RST38hmgedmin: remember how Tear panning stutters on Maemo4?17:29
mgedminso?17:29
RST38hmgedmin: My guess is that they are trying to avoid it by only starting redraw when you are done panning17:29
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mgedminbut I don't know _when_ I'm done panning, since I can't see where I'm panning to!17:30
mgedminimagine you're trying to find the little 'mark as read' button between two posts17:30
RST38hmgedmin: But, again, /msg romaxa, if he is online he may know what is going on17:30
mgedminyou pan down, you see something that looks like it, you stop panning and start clicking17:30
mgedminbrowserd redraws the area and you've no idea where you're now17:30
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mgedminit wouldn't be _bad_ if that area was blank17:31
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mgedminbut it shows actual text that more or less matches the page you're looking at17:31
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mgedminexcept that google reader (mobile) resized a div somewhere above and now all that nicely drawn are is invalid17:31
mgedmininvalid but not cleared17:31
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greenflyfor me google reader would work ok if only the url bar wouldn't pop up every time the page refreshed17:33
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* RST38h watches Symbian's conceptual UI demo17:33
greenflyand even that would be tolerable if "mouse mode" didn't turn off every time a page refreshed17:33
greenfly(essentially I like to browse google reader with j and k)17:34
javispedroand they don't work?17:34
RST38hTheir graphics artist has to go into a rehab or something. Yellow rubber duckies on struts are NOT healthy17:34
greenflyjavispedro: if I turn on mouse mode they do, otherwise when you hit keys the keypresses don't go to the browser they go to the URL bar17:34
* javispedro curses17:35
mgedmincool!17:35
mgedminI didn't know there was a way to make keyboard shortcuts work17:35
greenflybut then google reader refreshes at least every minute17:35
mgedminmouse mode, interesting17:35
javispedrogreenfly: what happens when an text box gets focus?17:35
greenflyjavispedro: I would imagine the key presses would go to the text box17:35
mgedmindoes Google have an API?17:35
javispedro and, more important, what happens when a text box has focus and you enable mouse mode?17:36
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mgedminall I want is "gimme posts", "mark as read", "like", "star", "share"17:36
javispedromgedmin: i don't know, but there's an unofficial google reader app for android at least17:36
greenflymgedmin: yeah, slide your finger from the left side of the screen to the screen (like a reverse of the "Back" gesture)17:36
greenflybut apart from these weird UI things, the full version of Google reader works fine17:37
greenflyand those could easily be fixed I would imagine17:37
greenflyie. maintain mouse mode when a page refreshes17:37
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aephm any guide how to setup scratchbox for maemo?  sb-menu  complains that i should run sb-menu and then goes into a loop17:51
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RST38haep: Add MaemoSDK+ repo to the list of sources, install maemosdk+ using Aptitude in Ubuntu :)17:54
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RST38hthen type maemo-sdk from command line and use menu system to install toolchain, rootstrap, etc17:54
aepah it depends on debian ?  didnt say that17:54
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aepis there an sdk for a different os then?  maybe windows or mac or something17:56
RST38hno17:56
aepoutch17:56
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ali1234is there really any reason to put optified libraries in /opt/maemo/usr/lib rather than /opt/libfoo/lib?17:58
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konttoriis it true that there are almost no bug reports for fremantle official platform at the moment?18:00
ali1234no18:01
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konttorioh, am I looking at the wrong place then?18:01
ali1234where are you looking?18:01
konttoribugs.maemo.org18:02
konttoriif I filter with official platform and fremantle, I see 29 bugs18:02
konttoriand they are mostly related to some documentation issues18:02
ali1234i see 33418:04
javispedroI see a lot, where do you choose "fremantle"? in target?18:04
ali1234ah i see, yeah in target18:05
ali1234and you get 2918:05
ali1234but probably the bugs just aren't labelled properly18:05
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RST38hkonttori: What do you mean by official platform? Some examples/18:05
RST38h?18:05
javispedrotarget is very messy.18:06
javispedrofor example the pulseaudio bug is "target ---"18:06
konttoriRST38h this: http://pastebin.com/md48497f18:06
RST38hkonttori: So, it is SDK, documentation, style guide, etc?18:07
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javispedrohttps://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&version=5.0&version=5.0-alpha&version=5.0-alpha-pre1&version=5.0-alpha-pre2&version=5.0-beta&version=5.0-beta2&version=5.0-final&version=5.0%2F(1.2009.41-10)&version=Fremantle&target_milestone=---&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteb18:07
javispedrooard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&va18:07
javispedrolue0-0-0=18:07
javispedroer...18:07
javispedrosorry.18:07
RST38hstoooop18:07
pw_1234thats an overly specific search criteria!18:08
pw_1234no wonder theres not many things18:08
javispedrolinks seem smaller in a browser :)18:08
qwerty12javispedro: https://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/mozilla.html#shorten_bug_query =)18:08
RST38hkonttori: Because I think we may have a misunderstanding here. Check bug #5449 or #5448 or #5329 for example18:08
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5449 /dev/fb0 returns invalid results from FBIO_*SCREENINFO ioctl()s18:08
lardmanjavispedro: it's the DPI you know ;)18:08
RST38hkonttori: Do they apply to the area of your interest?18:09
javispedrostill 366 chars after shortening18:10
javispedrobut thanks qwerty1218:10
pw_1234wow!   povbot thank you18:11
pw_1234#600018:11
qwerty12bug #600018:11
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6000 Build fails because contextproperty.h can't be found.18:11
pw_1234bug #600018:11
qwerty12javispedro: May I suggest $FAVOURITEURLSHORTENINGSERVICE? :-)18:11
javispedrooh, that's pretty cool. who taught povbot to do that?18:11
pw_1234who is the bothandler?18:11
javispedroqwerty12: already done http://maemo.pastebin.com/d248d3123:)18:12
javispedroqwerty12: already done http://maemo.pastebin.com/d248d3123 *damn* :)18:12
* mgedmin bows18:12
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qwerty12javispedro: hehe18:12
pw_1234mgedmin did you change povbot?18:13
mgedminyes18:13
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javispedromgedmin: thanks! that is very useful.18:13
pw_1234is it possible to remove the "bug " prefix and search just hash number ?18:14
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pw_1234because i know many people forget to say bug #1234 but all use the hashtag18:14
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 close-buttons on home menu are too small18:14
qwerty12pw_1234: Be annoying if you are just referring to a channel18:14
javispedroyeah, too many false positives18:15
pw_1234which channels are numeric?18:15
pw_1234hash number18:15
mgedminpw_1234, possible yes, but that would require hacking the source code18:16
mgedminof the supybot plugin18:16
pw_1234is it open source?18:16
mgedminI expect people will learn to say bug #nnn18:16
pw_1234the problem now is people dont learn18:17
mgedminyes, http://code.google.com/p/supybot-bugzilla/18:17
pw_1234they get asked, what bug number18:17
pw_1234and the reply is mostly18:17
pw_1234#123418:17
qwerty12Then you can just type bug #number.18:17
* mgedmin doesn't care about people who don't learn, provided that the people in question aren't him18:17
qwerty12It's useful not having to search for the bug, but, come on, no need to be that lazy.18:18
pw_1234i have my password as my irc nick. i am that lazy18:18
pw_1234thank you though mgedmin i do really appreciate the improvement in lazyness factor18:19
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pw_1234mgedmin: do you host the bot inside mozilla ?18:21
mgedminhttp://www.4degreez.com/misc/seven_deadly_sins.html told me sloth was my deadly sin today18:21
* mgedmin <-- no connection to mozilla18:21
pw_1234but supybot code you gave was for a mozilla plugin18:22
mgedmin???18:22
pw_1234[16:16] <mgedmin> yes, http://code.google.com/p/supybot-bugzilla/18:22
mgedminit's a supybot plugin, written by people for the mozilla project, which uses bugzilla as its bug tracking system18:22
mgedminjust like maemo.org uses bugzilla for bug tracking18:23
mgedminwhich makes this supybot plugin useful for us as well18:23
pw_1234its a good job one of us is paying attention!18:23
mgedminwait, what?  you said something?  sorry, I was distracted18:24
* qwerty12 uses this opportunity to take mgedmin's N900 for fun18:24
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* mgedmin slaps qwerty12's thieving fingers18:25
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pw_1234how many people with n900s are there now?18:26
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cosmo__o/18:27
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zaheer_300 + nokia + nokia subcontractors ?18:28
javispedro41318:28
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javispedroqwerty12_N900: you're evil, plain and simple.18:28
* qwerty12 bows18:29
RST38hare all qwerty12s evil or is it only the qwerty12_n900?18:29
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pw_1234good to see and hear.  when do real people get them18:29
zaheer_pw_1234, pre-orders start getting them next week according to people who were told bt nokia uk18:30
pw_1234nice! cant wait18:31
SpeedEvilzaheer_: I have had no email18:31
SpeedEvil(ordered through nokia.co.uk)18:31
rangeSpeedEvil: You didn't harass the people there enough.18:32
SpeedEvilPerhaps.18:32
* SpeedEvil starts making petrol bombs.18:32
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zaheer_SpeedEvil, i ordered then cancelled due to receiving one in amsterdam18:33
SpeedEvilI ordered on 20th oct.18:34
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aephttp://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/   says i should run af-sb-init.sh start but i get command not found18:38
Stskeepsuse final sdk18:38
aepand i get that from where?18:39
aepyeah no such script included in the sdk18:40
Stskeepshttp://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml18:40
aepthanks18:40
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anvith3finally installed fite on my n810 and got it to work18:52
anvith3 its very slow though18:52
anvith3takes atleast 3 seconds to read out the words18:53
anvith3sorry its flite*18:53
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aepStskeeps: same thing with the sdk from that link18:55
aepthere is no such file in the tarbal18:55
aeps/tarbal/scratchbox where the script installed to18:55
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javispedronokia-binaries...18:57
aepah18:58
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* GAN900 finds it odd that the Web .desktop actually goes to Bookmarks. . . .19:11
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fluxthe accelerometers on n900, do they also measure rotation?19:16
fluxor mostly just rotation :)19:17
javispedrono, they measure acceleration.19:17
cosmo_3d-acceleration afai19:17
cosmo_k19:17
fluxhmph, too bad, I was hoping it'd provide some hints for panoramic shoots19:17
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Moo___is it possible to emulate accelerometer under x86 scratchbox?19:17
fluxor rather, that it could be used for that purpose, not that it did that by default :)19:18
javispedroMoo___: yeah, but there's no "prepackaged solution" that I know of.19:18
cosmo_flux: i guess you are thinking about compass19:18
fluxhm, so does that mean they cannot be used 'as a wheel' for, say, a game?19:18
fluxcosmo_, no, not really19:18
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fluxcosmo_, I was thinking when taking a sequence of images, the location of the next image relative to the previous one could be put along the EXIF data19:18
flux(and not just location, but orientatino too - or actually mostly, because on panoramas you want to rotate camera)19:19
Moo___javispedro: any pointers where to start?19:19
cosmo_ok, something like a gyro sensor would do19:19
fluxah, I actually /lastlogged acceleration before asking that question and just now I notice that the very first message addressed my question, sigh :)19:20
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javispedroMoo___: read the documentation about the accelerometer API. IIRC there are two ways to read it: a /sys file and a d-bus interface. You may not simulate a /sys file trivially but if you can modify the source code point it to a different file, or, you can create the corresponding d-bus service.19:21
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kamihi19:24
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greenflyjust a quick question: is there a development google voice telepathy plugin? dialcentral is nice but it'd be even nicer if it were integrated into the contact list19:33
lardmanaaargh, a single typo19:33
lardmand instead of b19:33
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* lardman wonders if 3 hours work this arvo was a good return to find a single (important) typo19:34
* qwerty12 does the obligatory Nelson Muntz HAHA!19:34
pupnikwazd_: does that have to do with browser pausing javascript ?19:34
greenflyqwerty12: I looked into the xkb issue yesterday and even though there's an xkb entry that has keyboard mappings that match the n900, changing it didn't seem to affect anything. looks like maybe hildon overrides it all? not sure yet19:34
pupnikoh dear stuck in  scrollback19:35
wjtgreenfly: it should work as is19:35
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wjtoh, google voice not google talk, my mistake19:35
wjtnot that we know of19:35
qwerty12greenfly: Yeah, I also edited that rx-51 keymap to no avail. After getting frustrated, I deleted it to see if it was even being read :)19:35
greenflywjt: thanks. well I'm sure it's a matter of time19:35
pupnikwho has voice commands working yet19:36
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Robot101greenfly: you could try it in any language you want that has a dbus binding19:36
wjtgreenfly: well, it's a matter of time, and someone working on it :P19:36
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greenflywjt: heh, the dialcentral guy seemed to mention working on something in a forum post19:36
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greenflyRobot101: I'm just trying to get Meta or Alt_L available in the terminal19:37
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Robot101greenfly: I meant google voice19:38
mgedmingreenfly, maybe this will help a bit: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2009-October/014527.html19:38
mgedminhasn't anybody ported xmodmap yet?19:38
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greenflymgedmin: thanks19:38
greenflyRobot101: not sure I'm quite up to the task of writing the telepathy plugin19:38
* Jaffa unmeets19:39
qwerty12~mgedmin++19:39
mgedminnom nom nom tasty karma19:39
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greenflymgedmin: might be able to make that part of the .profile or something19:39
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mgedmincareful, see also my next message19:40
mgedminafter playing with xkbcomp I discovered a strange maemo-xinput-sounds process eating 100% cpu19:40
mgedminthe 'xinput' bit made me think it could be related19:40
greenflyhmm19:40
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greenflymgedmin: where are you finding default.xkb?19:41
mgedminxkbcomp <source> <destination>19:41
mgedmineither can be a file or an X display name19:41
greenflyohhhh, sorry, that makes sense19:41
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mgedminactually, I've never tried xkbcomp file1 file2 or xkbcomp :1 :219:42
mgedminand the xkb file produced is huuuge and buggy19:42
mgedmini.e. cannot be fed back without manual fixes19:42
mgedminxkb is a murky mess, and X.org developers are slowly working to rewrite it19:42
JaffaGaaaahhhgh. Trying to attach fscking screenshots19:42
greenflyall the same, that's enough hope that I'll invest some time in getting it to work19:43
greenflythanks19:43
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mgedminI'd like to know very much where the on-screen symbol palette is defined19:43
greenflyyeah, it would be really nice to just add a button or two to xterminal19:43
mgedminI'm afraid it's in some closed-source nokia app or library19:43
greenflythen I could leave the current keyboard as is19:44
mgedminmaybe you can do that with gconf-editor?19:44
greenflyhmm19:44
* GeneralAntilles wonders if anybody on Talk watches 30 Rock.19:45
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mgedminooh, I need to write a sharing plugin to scp an image to my web server19:47
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javispedroit is way too easy to go around nokia.com with MicroB and find a "XXX does not currently support the browser you're using" error message20:05
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, bugs at b.m.o MAY be forwarded.20:06
javispedrowhat's worse is that those links won't even work with any other s60 webkit browser...20:07
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javispedroouch. the "add security exception" dialog is as is from desktop firefox in the sdk maemo browser20:07
JaffaYay, Hermes is in extras :)20:08
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RST38hcongratulations20:08
greenflycool20:09
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JaffaThe gauntlet has been run.20:10
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* lcuk kicks aSIMULAtor and knocks her into aSIMULAtur20:36
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* javispedro publishes vmgl stuff http://depot.javispedro.com/vmgl/20:38
lcukjavispedro, whats that then20:38
javispedroa way to allow accelerated 3D on the SDK even if using a nvidia card or a vm .20:39
lcuk:D wicked smart20:39
javispedronot mine :)20:39
javispedroi just forward ported it to recent versions of xorg20:39
lcukany chance of getting accelerometer working by default in the sdk? :D20:40
lcuktho i suppose that could just be mapped fromt he normal driver interface point20:40
lcukto where the nokia exposes them20:40
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lcukcan you symlink driver branches (assuming compatible data format)20:40
lcukhey MoonTiger \o20:40
MoonTigerhey lcuk :)20:40
javispedro"symlink driver branches"? O.o20:41
GeneralAntilleslol20:41
lcukerrr /sys/ or whatever we get accelerometer data from20:41
javispedrolcuk, do you read acceloremeter data from d-bus or from20:41
javispedroer.20:41
javispedroyou answered me already :)20:41
lcuk/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord20:41
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javispedrona, you can't put a file there20:42
lcukshame20:42
javispedroeither patch the kernel, patch a preloaded library, or edit your binary20:42
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javispedroyou could edit it so that when it builds under x86 it uses /home/user/.accel20:42
lcukim not thinking for me20:42
lcukim thinking for everything else that uses the accelerometer20:42
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lcukto allow testing on laptops which support accelerometer20:43
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javispedrowell, patching the kernel is out of the question I think.20:43
lcukdoes that /sys/ branch exist in the sdk?20:43
lcukif not, a new kernel mod could be insmodded20:44
javispedroit is binded to host's /sys20:44
javispedroi don't want to mess with i2c mods20:44
ali1234it's just a matter of writing a kernel module20:44
ali1234that provides that file20:44
lcuk"just"20:44
ali1234yes, "just"20:44
ali1234writing a kernel module is easy20:44
javispedrocan you overwrite "another driver"'s /sys namespace?20:45
ali1234compared with, say, packaging a library for maemo20:45
javispedroplainly and simply'20:45
lcukali1234, now you got me interested20:45
lcukbut packaging a library wasnt difficult, it was using autotools that felt like tooth extraction20:45
lcukit got easy once idropped them20:45
* RST38h moos at lcuk20:45
* lcuk meows back @ RST38h 20:45
ali1234javispedro: you're not overwriting another driver's space because it's under /sys/class - you just need to provide a driver of that class20:45
javispedroali1234: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord20:46
ali1234you just need to provide a driver which pretends to do i2c20:46
javispedrothat's what I said I don't want to mess with i2c mods.20:46
javispedroali1234: no20:46
ali1234javispedro: yes20:46
javispedronearly every desktop already has i2c mods loaded.20:46
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* RST38h sadly notices that the Planet has been littered by some twitterer20:46
javispedroedit it and you can fry my dvb tuner and nvidia card20:46
ali1234javispedro: it doesn't matter, there's several i2c drivers, they all coexist20:47
ali1234javispedro: that's only a problem if apps are hard coded to use a specific i2c bus20:47
javispedrobut we have to get that exact same path.20:47
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javispedroRST38h: qgil killed it, seems.20:48
javispedroali1234: exactly. they're hardcoded.20:48
ali1234yes exactly. they *SHOULDN'T* be20:48
ali1234you should be looking at /sys/class/i2c-adapter-*/name to determine which i2c bus to use20:48
pupnikhow am i to understand scope and mission of planet.m.o?20:48
javispedroso we go back to step 1. just make them point to /home/user/.accelerometer when building under x8620:49
ali1234javispedro: no. you get people to write their accelerometer driver properly20:49
ali1234javispedro: what happens if a n920 comes out, and the accelerometer is now on i2c-4?20:49
javispedro<lcuk> im not thinking for me20:49
javispedro<lcuk> im thinking for everything else that uses the accelerometer20:49
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ali1234if you use sysfs properly, it isn't a problem20:50
ali1234if you hardcode the path, you're screwed20:50
javispedrothe ideal solution for me would be to add yet another layer of abstraction -- libaccelerometer20:50
javispedropossibly with commonly used helpers (is_device_portrait()?)20:50
javispedrocause, what if the n920 doesn't use i2c for the accelerometer chip?20:51
ali1234libaccelerometer would still need to handle sysfs properly20:51
ali1234actually an ideal solution would be to define an event device for accelerometers20:51
lcukthere is a d-bus already for it20:51
ali1234then you can emulate them from userspace using uinput20:51
lcukhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers20:52
ali1234but, d-bus is horrible20:52
RST38hjavis: I still see it20:53
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RST38hmaybe need to reload20:53
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ali1234heh, turns out the kernel driver for omap-i2c is broken anyway, and names all the i2c-adapters exactly the same20:55
ali1234so you can't reliably know which is which20:55
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ali1234what you can do is access it through /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.3/20:58
ali1234that shouldn't ever appear on a desktop/sdk20:58
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konttoriRST38h: sorry, I had to take care of the baby, so about https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=5449%2C5448%2C5329   - I'll get my guys to check the mime issue, looks like the accelerometer is being taken care of by riku and the bit depth issue I'll ask someone tomorrow if they could take a look at it,.21:01
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javispedroand pulseaudio, the pulseaudio bug!21:02
javispedrobug #552421:02
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 program hangs on exit when media player is playing music21:02
javispedro^^ this one.21:02
javispedro:)21:03
lcuk:D haha when did marius update povbot21:03
lcukbug #121:03
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it21:03
javispedrolol21:04
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konttorijavispedro: oh, pulseaudio bug. now where have I heard that sentence before...21:04
RST38hkonttori: If these are the type of bugs you are looking for, I will collect some more for you. They are usually not classified into the category you searched21:04
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ali1234i like how it's "the" pulseaudio bug. think yourself lucky to have only one...21:05
konttoriRST38h: so, they are not categorized as fremantle bug, right?21:05
RST38hkonttori: They are Fremantle all right, but different categories21:05
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RST38hkonttori: like Core21:05
lcukthere are no bugs in fremantle yet, everything has been fixed already :D21:05
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RST38hkonttori: The Platform category you mentioned is somewhat vague, people like more concrete ones :)21:05
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javispedroactually, I don't even know for sure if it's a pulseaudio bug :) but hey, humans need to anthropomorphize things. :)21:06
sijkbug #1 is always kind of interesting: https://launchpad.net/bugs/121:06
konttorimy search covered all products21:06
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RST38hkonttori: Another thing I had in mind but did not file yet is to also handle all the hardware buttons/sensors as /dev/input events21:06
konttoriRST38h: classification should be super category of product21:06
RST38hkonttori: I.e. avoid dbus as much as possible, just register stuff like kickstand state, camera cover state, proximity sensor as /dev/input events21:07
RST38hkonttori: that should not be too hard to do if they are mostly GPIOs21:07
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ali1234is proximity analogue?21:08
konttoriRST38h: that is not a bad idea at all. otoh, dbus is really not that bad for those either.21:09
konttoriby all means, do make a bug on those.21:09
RST38hkonttori: my concern about dbus is that 1) it is too high level for this kinda stuff and 2) takes resources21:09
lcukideally, shouldnt dbus be looking at the /dev/input ..21:10
RST38hkonttori: i.e. it can be used but feels like overkill21:10
lcukRST38h,  for those apps that dont want direct banging it makes sense21:10
VDVsxbug #221:10
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 Static linking under SDK-PC does not work21:10
lcukbug #vdvsx21:10
RST38hlcuk: /dev/input isn't really direct banging, it is pretty OS friendly21:11
javispedrodepends.21:11
VDVsxRST38h, it's the correct way, period!!21:11
RST38hlcuk: To make it MORE friendly, one may want to route those events to GTK events21:11
javispedroyour framework could be already monitoring the d-bus fd.21:11
lcukbut does not specify events or retain status and you cannot hook things easily can you21:11
RST38hlcuk: But it is more of a "nice to have"21:11
javispedros/monitoring/select'ing21:11
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RST38hlcuk: Yea, you want to plug them into UI, you map them to GTK+ events21:12
lcukccooke, this kind of discussion is related to your area21:12
konttorianyhoo, we can take a look at making those more friendly. I agree that we should have at least the accelerometer as an input device.21:12
ali1234dbus is totally not meant to handle things like input21:13
RST38hkonttori: Remember saying that it may be a good idea to add surfaces of arbitrary size?21:13
RST38hdisplay surfaces I mean21:13
konttoriali1234: some of those listed are not input (kickstand, proximity sensor)21:13
lcukyes they are21:13
ali1234actually they are21:13
konttorimy point is that they are not changing values very often21:14
ali1234raw value of proximity sensor = input, "user is holding phone to their face" = what dbus is for21:14
RST38hkonttori: If I file a tracker for this, should I say "add Xv surfaces of variable size" or "implement *SETINFO ioctl()s in fb0"?21:14
konttorifor that, I agree21:14
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konttorihave title as the former. have the latter in the description21:14
RST38hkonttori: Ok, so these do not need to be events, they have to provide ability to read their states though?21:15
konttoriand do make a case why it should be done (so, an example why you need it for some app) that will help in getting it done21:15
RST38hok21:15
RST38hWill try21:15
konttorirelated to that, we have implemented the compositor scaling already. It won't be out in sales release, but on the first update release.21:16
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javispedronice :)21:19
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lcukkonttori, RST38h i see you are discussing Xv in amongst this - does this imply the XV yuv plane will be scaled on the dashboard?21:20
konttorinope. it's directly rendered and passes the compositor21:20
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konttorifor the compositor scaling, here's an example code  - feel free to comment javispedro : http://pastebin.com/m6e0617ff21:21
GeneralAntilles100,00 apps in the AppStore21:21
GeneralAntillesAt this point it's just silly.21:21
GeneralAntillesHow many of those can one person be exposed to?21:21
konttoriif you feel like the direction is not proper, please email me at urho.konttori@nokia.com21:22
GeneralAntilleskonttori, publicly indexed channel. ;)21:22
lcukGeneralAntilles, 100,000 webpages in the AppStore21:22
ali1234GeneralAntilles: allegedly the average iphone user installs 9 apps per month21:22
lcukat this point its just silly21:22
GeneralAntillesali1234, interesting.21:22
GeneralAntillesAlthough my anecdotal evidence doesn't bear that out.21:22
ali1234nor mine21:22
ali1234but that's what the pundits reckon21:23
RST38hkonttori: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603721:23
povbotBug 6037: Implement ability to create RGB drawing surfaces of variable size21:23
RST38hkonttori: Does this sound like a reasonable bug tracker?21:23
GeneralAntillesI wonder what percentage of applications have less than 10 downloads.21:23
lcuklong tail gen,21:24
GeneralAntillesI really don't see the point of having that many apps21:24
lcukpeople make them cos they are easy21:24
RST38hGeneral: KILL!21:24
GeneralAntillesThe AppStore is woefully underfeatured for discovering even a small portion of that number.21:24
javispedrokonttori: still didn't read how clutter works so can't comment. looks sane though and seems to allow certain parts of the window not to be scaled, so I say OK.21:24
GeneralAntillesI'd bet things taper off insanely fast once you get out of the top-25s.21:25
lcukits as easy to make an iphone app as it is to make a webpage21:25
lcukand it should be that simple for us21:25
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lcukmoobox21:25
lcukcowbox21:25
lcukhorsebox21:25
javispedrothe interesting thing of course is if it's faster than doing scaling on cpu or using opengl es from within the app.21:25
GeneralAntilleslcuk, have you developed any iPhone applications?21:25
pupnikhooray to konttori21:26
* GeneralAntilles prefers a slightly higher barrier to entry.21:26
lcukdefine developed gen, the majority are cookie cuts from a template21:26
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ali1234GeneralAntilles: http://metrics.admob.com/21:26
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pupnikrespect, jah!21:26
lcukthere are a few exceptional apps where people put time and effort in21:26
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/apples_app_store_100k_apps_few_hits.php21:26
javispedroGeneralAntilles: didn't they say the were counting "book" apps now?21:26
lcukbut once you get going you can spout out apps like you crap in the toilet21:26
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GeneralAntillesI don't want that for Maemo.21:27
GeneralAntillesI want fewer, higher quality applications.21:27
ali1234also this: http://metrics.admob.com/2009/06/may-2009-mobile-metrics-report/21:27
GeneralAntillesNot spam.21:27
lcukgive everyone what they want21:28
lcukwhy not have that many?21:28
lcukif people buy em its not a prob21:28
ali1234after the top 25% of apps, you're looking at 1000 users per app or less21:28
GeneralAntilleslcuk, because past a certain point you're looking at spam, not choice.21:29
GeneralAntillesThere's simply no way a normal person can sort through all of that noise.21:29
javispedroI don't mind having 100,000 (even if 10,000 are just apps that are integrated book + ebook reader). I mind them using that as an argument.21:29
lcukso? you get others to do it for yu21:29
lcuklook at the interweb21:29
lcukpeople like variety21:29
lcuk"oh there can only be 100 websites"21:30
qwerty12_N900I so love this iFart app over this one21:30
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lcukiFart deluxe21:30
javispedrothe eFart is way better!21:30
lcukmoobox21:30
* VDVsx codes mFart ;)21:31
lcukkhertan has already written that21:31
lcukhis stinks tho :p21:31
javispedrohe's going to be happy having the #1 app21:31
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it doesn't seem to work in practice.21:31
lcukGeneralAntilles, do you think thers too much choice on the internet?21:32
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RST38hkonttori: Ok, hw state access APIs requested here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603821:32
povbotBug 6038: Implement common device-level interface for accessing hw sensors21:32
qwerty12_N900povbot: I love you21:32
povbotqwerty12_N900: Error: "I" is not a valid command.21:32
RST38hkonttori: I specifically mentioned that there are two faces to these APIs: querying current state and delivering state changes21:32
GeneralAntilleslcuk, invalid analogy.21:32
lcukits identical to iphone21:33
Jaffalcuk: iPhone dev is easier (but not as easy as a webpage), but even iMoobox would have a rotating, screen orientation aware picture, some form of animation and switchable graphics etc21:33
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lcukjaffa, of course instead of a static pic its a blender model21:33
javispedronow on bbc: "the science behind iFart apps"21:33
lcukno denying that21:33
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lcukbut its still really simply21:33
lcuksimple21:33
javispedrohttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2009/02/frtapstuaw0210_0004.png21:35
RST38hlcuk,javispedro,qwerty: Ok, as we are filing platform bugs, should I file a requested for a clean way to request ownership of the hardware buttons, or is it ok the way it is?21:36
lbtGeneralAntilles: you assume that apps are loaded by browsing... they're not. They grow through word of mouth and networking21:36
lbtthe store is just "where you go to get it"21:36
GeneralAntilleslbt, not as often as you think.21:36
lbthaving 10k apps is fine21:36
* GeneralAntilles knows a few iPhone users.21:36
lcukmouth and fart is wrong21:36
lbtconsider deb-a-day21:36
GeneralAntilleslbt and word-of-mouth still doesn't help the initial discovery phase.21:36
lbtsure there are people who browse the apps.... but not for long ;)21:37
qwerty12_N900RST38h: Indifferent on the issue. I only knock out really simple GTK stuff :)21:37
lcuktop 2521:37
lcukjust like maemo downloads21:37
lcukyou bet your ass they need neww servers ;)21:37
javispedroRST38h: and I don't know what you mean. Which hardware buttons?21:37
Jaffajeremiah: "debslave" sounds like a cool new command21:37
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* GeneralAntilles wonders if anybody's ever going to fix the whole "Maemo Extras" silliness.21:37
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RST38hjavis: volume +/-, camera21:38
javispedroouch, are they used by the system in fremantle?21:38
RST38hGeneral: Which one? There are many!21:39
RST38hjavis: Yes21:39
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qwerty12_N900ccamameerraa  wwoouulldd  bebe  uusseeffuull  aanndd  tthhiiss  NN990000  keyYbBoOaArRdD  hasS  fFuUcCkKeEdD  uUpP21:39
javispedroso it's really volume+/- and no apps use it for zoom :(21:39
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, the naming one.21:39
johnsqHi21:39
RST38hjavis: Well you can take ownership of them, but it requires deep anal penetration21:39
RST38hjavis: Almost all the way to the teeth21:40
RST38hGeneral: * Can vote multiple times on the same package21:40
javispedroRST38h: for the sake of god then, file it.21:40
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that's a Packages issue, not a "Maemo Extras" issue.21:41
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javispedroqwerty12_N900: no, your keyboard is still broken.21:41
RST38hGeneral: Hmm...what is the Extras issue then?21:41
qwerty12_N900javispedro: Pulled out the battery; all OK now :-)21:41
GeneralAntillesThe naming issue. . . .21:41
JaffaRST38h: I think GeneralAntilles is referring to the fact it is in the default image as "Maemo Extras" rather than "maemo.org Extras"21:42
RST38hjavis: I will probably wait for now though: too afraid to suggest some really stupid API21:42
RST38hJaffa: Oh that...21:42
javispedroRST38h: was thinking that it's going to be a hard issue.21:42
javispedroand also UX one.21:42
* RST38h can't see the difference how it is called =(21:42
RST38hjavis: Well, Symbian somehow manages to handle it in a relatively sane way21:43
javispedroI might even like a "hardcoded" volume button, so I don't know what to say.21:43
jeremiahheh21:45
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konttoriRST38h: I mailed myself the bugs, I'll check those out tomorrow on what we could do and who would need to do that.21:46
GeneralAntillesJaffa, it'd be nice if they could just call it "Extras"21:47
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RST38hkonttori: This is not an enhancement request but you may find it delicious: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=603921:50
povbotBug 6039: Hanging application menu requires system reboot21:50
RST38hkonttori: (it stems from that pulseaudio bug)21:50
RST38hSeveral other types of hangups are related to it (like, Phone App coming up when some other application shows its menu, etc)21:51
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bgatis there a downloadable QEMU image for maemo?21:59
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Stskeepsqemu doesn't do GL just yet.. soon22:00
Stskeeps:P22:00
bgatok, so if I want to run maemo "in a window" on my desktop workstation, what are my options?22:01
StskeepsMaemo SDK :)22:01
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bgataah22:01
bgatd'oh!22:01
bgatdo the instructions in Maemo5_Final_Installation work for debian lenny amd64?22:02
javispedroStskeeps: I just tried the sdk with vmgl :)22:02
Stskeepscool22:02
Stskeepsbgat: not so much for amd64 i think22:02
bgatdarn, blocked again!22:03
* javispedro notes clutter-0.8 is missing libgl1-dev as build-dep22:03
jjobgat: they should22:03
javispedrobgat: the sdk does work in amd64, but I don't know if the automated script works. the manual instructions should.22:04
jjoinstaller scripts should work also22:04
bgathttp://danielkitta.org/howto/maemo-amd64 ?22:04
jjothe sb-script needs an extra parameter to force the installation of 32-bit packages22:04
RST38hSiebers admitted to stabbing himself so he could get out of going to work at a Colorado Blockbuster.22:05
bgatjjo:  and that extra param is.... ?22:05
jjocan't remember, but it's in the --help22:06
bgataah... it's -F22:06
jjobgat: the link you gave, go through steps 1 & 2 and do the rest with the installers22:06
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jjothey work around some problems22:06
bgatok22:07
bgatcan I do the download and  install first, and then reboot?22:07
jjowell, mainly the /opt issue and something else22:07
jjobgat: the vdso has to be there for the sb to work, so sdk can't be installed before that22:08
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bgataah22:08
bgatdarn22:08
bgatok, I guess I'll be rebooting in a sec!  :)22:08
RST38h"We aren't sure why the Americans think a 5-litre V8 engine is necessary in a commuter car, but 110V is enough to power your juicer. Surely they should have gone for 500V? Or even a trillion?"22:08
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bgatheh, there's a section about halfway down the page for MAEMO5_Final_Installation that talks about x86-x4 debian installations!22:10
* bgat needs to rtfm22:10
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, who's hating on fun?22:11
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RST38hGeneral: http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49303764-5,00.htm (mildly funny)22:12
bgatRST38h: When I'm merging from a surface street onto a busy interstate with a short ramp, a V8 5.0L (or larger) is the only thing that keeps me from getting rear-ended during rush hour!22:12
GeneralAntillesHehe22:13
GeneralAntillesMy 4-banger does me OK. ;)22:13
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GeneralAntillesAmerican V8s are so inefficient. <_<22:13
bgatGeneralAntilles: not when it's in a 3000lb Chevrolet Suburban!22:13
derfYeah, really. If there's less car to move, it takes less engine to move it.22:13
bgatGeneralAntilles: so whose are better? give me some specs22:14
toggles_wi like my 5l v8...22:14
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GeneralAntillesbgat, your Suburban weighs less than my Camry? O_o22:14
RST38hderf: also makes it a deathtrap though22:14
bgatGeneralAntilles: holdonasec,22:14
GeneralAntillesbgat, I mean the consumer V8s they put in most cars.22:14
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GeneralAntillesbgat, not American V8s in generall.22:15
derfRST38h: This is America. You expect to get killed on the road.22:15
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I have a love affair with the LS7.22:15
GeneralAntillesIt's unpatriotic to not die in traffic.22:15
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bgatGeneralAntilles: I lied.  gross weight is 7200 lbs; I didn't think 3000 sounded right as soon as I pressed enter...22:16
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GeneralAntillesbgat, yeah, my Camry is about ~3400lbs. ;)22:17
bgatGeneralAntilles: crap, that isn't right either.  curb weight is 5474 lbs for the 2wd model; mine is 4wd, so that probably adds 1000 lbs22:17
RST38hCamry started at around 750kg22:17
RST38hSo, it is >1500kg now? =)22:17
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes, they got bigger.22:18
GeneralAntillesI can actually fit things in the trunk now.22:18
bgatof course, with 50gal of fuel in it that adds yet another 400 lbs...22:18
GeneralAntillesPlus motorized seats, nice big radios, etc, etc22:18
lcukcar+1 american/european driver can easily double, if not triple the weight.22:18
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RST38hthe trunk was about the same size in '84 model, at least in my perception22:18
bgatplus the wife and kids.... yea, 7200 is probably more reasonable.  :)22:18
GeneralAntillesRST38h, passenger space has gone up significantly.22:18
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GeneralAntillesI fit 16 2x4s in my 2004.22:18
GeneralAntillesCouldn't do that in the 90s models.22:18
RST38humgh22:18
lcukyou carry wood in your car on a regular basis?22:19
lcuki cant remember the last time i had wood in my car22:19
GeneralAntilleslcuk, regular enough.22:19
bgatlcuk: married, right?  :)22:19
lcuklol22:19
lcukwe did drive home from ikea once with a bed on the roof, and it rained and the cardboard disintigrated22:20
RST38h"Cat diagnosed with swine flu" (C)WashPost22:20
bgatI had a bundle of 1x2x8 firring strips in mine the other night, that's more wood than the vehicle has seen in decades22:20
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I like working with my hands.22:20
lcukyes we know, thats why you are the principle person asking for portrait access to certain websites22:21
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bgatjjo: the Memo5 SDK installation instructions don't mention vdso; any chance it's optional?  :)22:22
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, my name is not Faheem.22:22
lcukhaha good point22:22
RST38hSomething just crossed my mind: Do we have an API to access device's IMEI?22:23
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* SpeedEvil put 40 6' fenceposts in his nissan micra.22:26
* RST38h once moved a friend in one trip of honda crv22:27
bgatSpeedEvil: did you bottom out the suspension in the process? besides the size, that's a lot of weight22:27
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champushey fellaz22:27
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SpeedEvilbgat: no - it's not actually that far out of spec - vs a couple of fat people in the back.22:27
SpeedEvilbgat: It was quite low.22:28
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bgatwooden fence posts, or metal ones?22:28
champusam I allowed to host a website "ilikemaemo.com", post stuff i exeprience with maemo and use google layer ads to help me finance the webhosting?22:28
SpeedEvilbgat: wood22:28
bgatwow22:28
champusi don't exactly understand the terms of use and license22:28
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champusnobody in here who can tell me if this is legal or not?22:29
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GeneralAntilleschampus, shouldn't be an issue.22:31
qwerty12_N900RST38h: The IMEI can be retrieved via DBus22:32
qwerty12_N900RST38h: dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei22:33
champusgeneralantilles: hmm well can't really believe that... a blog which uses ads is a commercial website so when i post maemo i use the trademark maemo commercially, don't I?22:33
RST38hcoool22:33
RST38hthanks =)22:33
jeremiahchampus: Well, you are potentially violating copyright.22:34
jeremiahchampus: And Nokia can send you a takedown order22:34
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GeneralAntillesjeremiah, the person to contact is Quim Gil.22:34
jeremiahchampus: But they probably won't22:34
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jeremiahIndeed - Quim will know22:34
champusjeremish: but I don't want to do this illegaly22:35
jeremiahchampus: Post your question the way you phrased it to talk.maemo.org and I am sure Quim will answer22:35
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, easier to email directly.22:35
jeremiahQuim works for Nokia and knows exactly the scoop on trademark and copyright.22:35
champusjeremish: i want to do this legaly, is it possible that companys (my little 1man company and nokia) do corperate in situations like this?22:35
luke-jrjeremiah: what copyright?22:35
champusahh ok22:35
jeremiahGeneralAntilles: Except then it is online for the next person22:35
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luke-jr"Maemo" is a trademark, not a copyright.22:35
champusso what does this mean?22:36
champusmay i use it on a commercial website?22:36
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jeremiahchampus: You cannot use someone else's trademark without permission22:36
jeremiahchampus: Look on wikipedia for info on trademark22:37
champusok22:37
luke-jrjeremiah: there is fair use, of course22:37
GeneralAntilleschampus, however there are certain formulas that Nokia explicitly allows.22:37
GeneralAntilleschampus, "x for Maemo" is one of them22:37
champusgeneralantilles: you said mailing him would be easier? do you have his mail adress?22:37
luke-jr"Crazy for Maemo!"22:37
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I figure that it would be pretty difficult to confuse "http://ililkemaemo.com" with something official.22:38
champusgeneralantilles: hmm but i want to post objectively and don't want to use these phrases22:38
GeneralAntilleschampus, quim.gil at nokia.com22:38
jeremiahOh, so you want to say: "Maemo sucks"22:38
luke-jrhahaha22:38
jeremiahIn that regard, they'll sue.22:38
champusgeneralantilles: hmm.. my plan is to start the greatest maemo blog in germany and than build a community around it22:38
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jeremiahchampus: There is a thread about this already on Talk!22:39
jeremiahPost your question there!22:39
GeneralAntillesThere's a lot of commercial interests hoping on the bandwagon.22:39
champuswhere is it?22:39
champusah22:39
jeremiahQuim is asking if they should start sub-forums in German22:39
jeremiahetc.22:39
jeremiahSuomi, svenska, deutsch, etc.22:39
bgatWhat, no Klingon?22:40
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jeremiahbgat: heh22:40
* Stskeeps thinks you should, to avoid seperation into new communities22:40
luke-jrNihongo22:40
Stskeepsmaemo.org needs to stay together22:40
jeremiahAnd hold hands.22:40
qwerty12_N900Then point the gun on its neighbours22:40
jeremiahI think we should have sub-forums in other languages though.22:40
jeremiahDoesn't hurt22:40
jeremiahAnd if it is not on talk, then others will do it anyway22:41
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Stskeepsi already saw the harm of smartq community escaping to their own forum instead of organising under maemo.org, heh22:41
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps: But Mer does destroy devices!22:41
qwerty12_N900/s22:42
luke-jrNokia controls Maemo.org, so I imagine competitors would be hesitant to trust it22:42
Stskeepsqwerty12_N900: not anymore we do not :P22:42
luke-jranyhow, we clearly need distinct forums for British English and American English.22:42
Stskeepsluke-jr: tbh nokia doesn't22:42
Stskeepsit's a PR disaster if they overreach22:42
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, since when?22:43
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, WE control http://maemo.org.22:43
jeremiahYeah, I thought Reggie registered talk22:43
* Jaffa unfoods.22:44
jeremiahunfoods? Is that barfing?22:44
jeremiahOr pooping?22:44
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jeremiahAnd if you are pooping, do you really need to tell us?22:45
jeremiahI mean, do I really need to know that?22:45
* jeremiah re-foods22:45
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, this is the age of microblogging.22:45
jeremiahheh22:45
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: "WE"?22:45
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, the community.22:46
GeneralAntillesjeremiah, if random strangers don't know when you're on the can you might as well just be dead.22:46
jeremiahlol22:46
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: where are the computers?22:46
jeremiahluke-jr: France.22:46
luke-jrNokia HQ?22:46
Stskeepshosting center somewhere with akamai hosting22:47
jeremiahThat is the CDN22:47
jeremiahThe servers are in Scandinavia somewhere . . .22:47
jeremiahThree guesses and the first two don't count.22:48
qwerty12_N900Australia?22:48
* jeremiah presents qwerty12_N900 with the maemo intelligence and geography award22:48
toggles_wlol22:49
qwerty12_N900Why, thank you, jeremiah22:49
jeremiahWell done young man.22:49
jeremiahWe are all very proud of you.22:49
* luke-jr slices qwerty12_N900 up with the maemo intelligence and geography sword.22:49
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, not behind the Nokia firewall. :)22:50
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* qwerty12_N900 comes back as the Tentacled One and will continue to attack luke-jr for the rest of his life22:50
GeneralAntillesNokia has indicated that we're free to move them to wherever we like if the need arises. :)22:50
luke-jr>_<22:50
GeneralAntillesThey just pay the bills.22:50
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: oooh, move them to my hosting biz and I'll give you a special extra-high rate ;p22:50
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jeremiahluke-jr: Sounds good - how many machines can we have?22:51
*** javispedro changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt"22:51
javispedro(no longer a "tentative"22:51
javispedro)22:51
luke-jrjeremiah: shrug, I'll just rent them from someone else and resell them at a higher price :D22:51
jeremiahTrue entrepeneur22:52
luke-jrlol22:52
SpeedEvilOpenmoko at #2 on amazon sales in PDAs! http://www.amazon.com/OpenMokoRises/dp/B002N5521W/ref=pd_ts_e_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics22:52
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luke-jrand the person who makes the purchasing decision gets free incentives for switching? lol22:52
luke-jrSpeedEvil: that's the stupid wikireader though22:53
SpeedEvilyes.22:53
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Which is annoying, in an alternate world...22:53
SpeedEvil(though the wikireader gets a lot of stuff right)22:53
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ShadowJKso openmoko's secret project was a wikireader?22:58
toggles_wplan b22:58
SpeedEvilShadowJK: apparantly.22:59
SpeedEvil:/22:59
SpeedEvilNot even full linux - may be uclinux - unsure23:00
ShadowJKThat it runs for months at a time is awesome...23:00
SpeedEvilyes.23:00
ShadowJKbut no editing? It's not turing^WHHGTTG-complete!23:00
SpeedEvilThe 'subscribe to our update' service is also interesting.23:01
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wazd_I'm back at last23:01
konttoriRST38h: regarding 6039, as far as I remember, that has been fixed, but not for sales release as far as I remember.23:02
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fiferboyhi wazd_23:02
JaffaGah. Git causes nothing but pain.23:03
Jaffabug 603923:03
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6039 Hanging application menu requires system reboot23:03
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wazd_fiferboy: heya :)23:03
* GeneralAntilles swears off Talk for at least 24 hours.23:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: what brought you over the edge?23:04
lcukarent you a moderator?23:04
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, a string of things.23:04
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no.23:04
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, reading about people here taking that approach I realized exactly how much it's stressing me out. ;)23:05
JaffaGeneralAntilles: It's been at least 72 hours for me. A very nice 72 hours, I must say23:05
GeneralAntillesSo, break time.23:05
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* GeneralAntilles wonders if the Talk people get that they're driving away all of the useful folks.23:05
* Jaffa almost fell off the wagon today, but work intervened23:05
lcuksome threads are fun23:06
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* GeneralAntilles might need to fix it at the router.23:06
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lcukpost in the "1st things you would do" thread telling people what you DID is something evil and cool ;)23:06
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the other thing is that karma whoring just isn't effective when there's nobody around to whore to. :D23:07
* javispedro votes for tmo civil war23:07
lcukw00t23:07
* GeneralAntilles shoots musket balls at javispedro.23:07
qwerty12_N900Yeah: Everyone vs. javispedro23:07
Stskeepsjavispedro: just don't make it more pathetic than last time someone tried..23:07
lcukwhich side is malcolm reynolds on?23:08
lcukcos i wanna be on his team23:08
fiferboyI used to fire a musket...23:08
javispedrolcuk: he's on my side of course. but I forgot what was the war for already... :S23:08
lcukisnt that always the case23:08
JaffaDamnit. Someone's posted something to a Hermes thread I'm following. Will have to go into *that thread only*23:08
lcukwhole countries have been wiped out in world wide wtfs23:09
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, never fired black powder. Have fire a Ma Deuce, though. *g*23:09
qwerty12_N900Jaffa: And suddenly find yourself wondering out of that thread? :)23:09
* lcuk thinks jaffa secretly browses anonymously :P23:09
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, was that the itT insanity?23:09
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GeneralAntillesDidn't we have a spinoff forum for a while thanks to that?23:09
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yes23:10
qwerty12_N900Oh yeah, penguinbait's one23:10
GeneralAntillesRight, thanks to penguinbait.23:10
GeneralAntillesFun times.23:10
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Black Powder is fun in artillery.  I never fired ball with the musket, though23:10
lcukdidnt he ummm become council member replacing you sometime after that23:10
JaffaHe became a council member. I've yet to see him *do* anything.23:11
JaffaErr, ignore I said that. I said I wouldn't say anything or interfere with the new council.23:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I like to believe that VDVsx replaced me.23:11
JaffaAh, I'm having gcobb replace me then23:11
GeneralAntillesHehe23:11
lcuklol23:11
* GeneralAntilles was just typing that.23:11
* realitygaps also getting a bit overwhelmed by silly t.m.o threads23:11
GeneralAntillesAll those gaps in reality.23:12
lcukpost a thread "if nobody posts in this thread, i will send out an n900 to everyone tomorrow"23:12
lcukyou can bet your ass they would ruin it for thsemselves ;)23:12
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Stskeepsi want GA back in council :P23:13
lcukno, he was grumpy then23:13
lcuknow hes the light of our lives23:13
qwerty12_N900GA 201023:13
* GeneralAntilles wants zerojay and sjgadsby on the council.23:13
lcuki think VDVsx is bein super active23:14
lcukand texrat also23:14
lcuksurprisingly for a rat23:14
qwerty12_N900VDVsx was awesome even before he became a Council member23:14
JaffaWhich is How It Should Be[TM].23:14
lcukyeah q23:15
lcukhyperactive23:15
JaffaGiven at least two of the members put themselves forward on a "change we can believe in" and "increased transparency" ticket, they've either gone very quiet or hyperactive (making it difficult, IMHO, to separate the noise from the signal)23:15
* Jaffa shuts himself up.23:15
lcukmaybe they are changing things23:16
javispedrowell, things are changing indeed.23:16
GeneralAntilleslol, Jaffa23:16
qwerty12_N900Jaffa: Smile! http://imgur.com/yFCpG.png23:16
lcukcivil war, veterans vs current council23:17
Jaffaqwerty12_N900: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo23:17
lcukwe need qole as ref23:17
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JaffaThe new council is doing an excellent job...23:17
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, psh, no contest. lardman fights /dirty/.23:18
toggles_wqwerty12_N900: you need a charge23:18
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lcuki said veterans, not ancestors ;)23:18
GeneralAntillesOh god23:18
GeneralAntillesI just loaded up the New Posts page by reflex.23:18
GeneralAntillesDefinitely going to have to fix this one at the router.23:18
Stskeepsi had it like that with slashdot and reddit for a bit23:18
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qwerty12_N900toggles_w: It's doing just that; I just happened to take a screenshot when the animation was at the bottom ;)23:19
wazdfiferboy: around? :)23:19
fiferboywazd: present23:19
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lcuki think i need to reply to quim with a proposal tonight23:19
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wazdfiferboy: you're out of Jabber now23:19
* lcuk was hoping to hear back about something first23:19
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fiferboywazd: connectiong...23:20
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javispedrojust hope the N900 is released so they can finally get ahold the device, say "no mms. less mhz than the snapdragon. lame.", complain for a few months then go away :D23:21
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realitygaps:) what is the estimated release date currently?23:22
javispedroWhen it's done (TM)23:22
lcukwhat is a killer app and why do people keep thinking things are it23:22
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SpeedEvilAllegedly some people in the UK from nokia.uk got mailed release dates.23:22
SpeedEvillcuk: visicalc23:22
* realitygaps waiting for a flash image so he can break the device :)23:23
lcuk:D the oldest app i can run23:23
SpeedEvilVisicalc was awesome for personal computers in the workplace.23:23
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lcukSpeedEvil, but that doesnt explain23:25
lcukwhat dependencies do i need to include to create a killer app23:25
SpeedEvilah23:25
lcukwhich repository are they on23:25
wazdsnapdragon has like 30 minutes of work time23:25
javispedro(note the "lame" part is a slashdot reference)23:26
lcukjavispedro, thats in reference tothe device you are comparing, not the sd23:28
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* ShadowJK obtained a tekkeon mp155023:31
ShadowJKThe nokia tip is huge. The tip gets warm. With the supplied tip, provided power to device is half of what arrives at device with a generic tip :-)23:32
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* javispedro tries to understand the weird colors SDK issue23:33
javispedrothe c"orruption" is produced between the XShmGetImage call and before it's sent to libGL.23:34
javispedrothat leaves clutter-0.8 and ... er... nobody else? as possible culprit.23:34
lcukRGB BGR issue?23:35
lcukthe device is BGR i believe23:35
javispedromight be23:35
javispedrosince whatever it is doesn't touch the green channel23:35
lcukthen, yeah it will be23:35
javispedroand only seems to happen in RGB565 pixmaps23:35
lcuk16bit23:36
javispedroexactly.23:36
lcukyeah i had same thing23:36
lcuki did the yuv to rgb conversion23:36
javispedronow I have to find where is that happening23:36
javispedroand why it only happens "sometimes".23:36
lcukand it looked a bit crap till i inverted the tachyon field and raised shields23:36
javispedromax power to the shields!23:36
lcukcos some pathways in will have been fixed too soon23:36
javispedroengage!23:36
lcukinstead of a generic fix once at the warp core manifold, they decided to fix in each jerries tube they found the fluctuations in23:37
lcukblame shoddy engineering ;)23:37
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lcuki only used the sdk once23:38
lcuki didnt actually see the bad colors issue for myself23:38
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javispedronokia hosts a screenshot of it, wait a bit.23:39
javispedrolcuk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Clock.png23:40
lcukthe menu indicator nobble has gone on my real screen23:41
lcukthat little hint would +1000 the intuitive interface23:42
javispedroI guess UX can't decided wheter to keep or remove it.23:42
javispedros/decided/decide23:42
Proteousjerries tube?23:42
Proteousit's it jefferies23:42
javispedrobut you can see the orangeness there.23:43
* javispedro is modifiying the clutter pixmaps and clearly sees red converted to blue23:43
GeneralAntillesProteous, I'm pretty sure Jerry would disagree.23:43
Proteouswho is jerry again?23:44
lcukProteous, the tv series is fictional23:44
Proteouswhat? lies23:44
lcukthe real ones on board the real enterprise are called jerries tubes23:44
GeneralAntillesIndeed23:44
Proteousno no, I went back in time and killed Jerry23:45
penguinbaita belated bite me to all ;)23:45
Proteousso it was his brother jeff that got the tubes named after him23:45
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javispedrothe pixmaps seem to be stored in RGB565 LE format23:50
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champusWill it be possible to run an asterisk or fax server on nokia n900 / maemo to receive faxes?23:52
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pupnikway too many posts on t.m.o. now23:54
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luke-jrchampus: lol, nice joke23:54
champusy?23:55
luke-jrchampus: of course not23:55
champusy not?23:55
luke-jrbecause N900 doesn't have a landline23:55
champusdoesn't i have full access to the hardware?23:55
luke-jrduh23:55
luke-jrno23:55
champushm...23:55
luke-jrN900 is closed, too23:55
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champusdidn't ever care bout how fax work, thought it just uses this scratchy tunes to transmit data23:56
luke-jrbut even if it were open, you need a landline or T.38 VoIP for fax23:56
champushm k23:56
luke-jrit does23:56
champusok, one more question23:56
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luke-jrand cell phone compression doesn't preserve it23:56
champusi'm going to sell my blackberry bold and get a n90023:56
opengeekv2hi everybody!23:56
opengeekv2i have a question23:56
champusis the n900 a good smartphone for a linux geek like me?23:56
GeneralAntillesYes.23:56
javispedrolcuk: clutter_texture_set_from_yuv_data lol but seems fremantle build doesn't have it enabled.23:56
champuswill I have the linux feeling on a good powered hardware?23:56
realitygapschampus: yes23:57
GeneralAntillesYes.23:57
champushmm nice23:57
opengeekv2i flashed my n800 with mer and i've seen it is not much stable23:57
champusuhh... ssh?23:57
luke-jrchampus: buy me one and I'll make sure I get KDE 4.3 usable on it ;)23:57
javispedroopengeekv2: there is #mer too.23:57
champusluke-jr: what processor does the n900 use, arm?23:57
GeneralAntilleschampus, yes.23:57
champusthink there is allready a port ^^23:57
luke-jrchampus: OMAP3 ARM, yes23:57
GeneralAntillesOMAP343023:57
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opengeekv2yes, i know23:57
luke-jrchampus: it's not that simple23:57
GeneralAntillesopengeekv2, give it another 2-3 months or so.23:57
champusbut it can't be that hard23:57
luke-jrchampus: I'd need to get all the closed stuff working23:58
realitygapschampus: with a debian chroot you can run almost anything ....23:58
champussome modifications for fitting the screen size23:58
opengeekv2but the problem is i'm trying to reflash it with a maemo diablo image amnd d the flasher says to me usb device busy23:58
luke-jrchampus: slonopotamus and I ported it to N810 ;)23:58
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champushm23:58
champusi hope the n900 is as solid as my old nokia edgebox-pre-world-war-modell23:59
luke-jrchampus: keep in mind, being a free software fanatic, my port will also aim to replace the proprietary bits with open software when possible23:59
luke-jrlike Asterisk23:59
champushad to change my blackberry bold 3 times this year23:59
Jaffaluke-jr: The Psion's could send and receive faxes over GSM23:59
champusthats way to much for just wearing it in jeans23:59
luke-jrJaffa: how? GSM is lossy23:59
* realitygaps remembers the psions fondly23:59
Jaffa(gah, apostrophe abuse)23:59
luke-jrJaffa: or did they force analog mode on the carrier?23:59
champusluke-jr: hm... thought these proprietary bits are just binary drivers?23:59

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