IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-11-05

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luke-jrchampus: those are the biggest problem bits, but not just that, no00:00
Jaffaluke-jr: Presumably by dropping the baud down to something like 9600 to get enough fidelity00:00
GeneralAntilleschampus, open kernel drivers, closed libs on some stuff.00:00
luke-jrJaffa: but I thought GSM would lose the frequencies00:00
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: obviously00:00
ShadowJKI think there's a fax mode00:00
Jaffaluke-jr: I did it myself, at least once - but didn't investigate the underlying implementation00:01
ShadowJKdata over GSM (pre-GPRS) wasn't a standard modem hooked up to the GSM voice codec, obviously :-)00:01
qwerty12_N900Jaffa: HildonFancyButton should really be a part of libhildon itself :)00:01
luke-jrah, so the carrier needs to support it00:01
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lbtdid someone say fax? Or was that MMS ?00:01
javispedrono fax? dealkiller!00:01
ShadowJKGSM has a ton of features and cruft nobody uses :)00:02
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ShadowJKThere's this RSS-like thing for SMS too, iir00:02
javispedrolike phone calls.00:02
ShadowJKjavispedro, like that, yeah00:02
champusgeneralantilles, luke-jr: think it doesn't take long until they are cracked00:02
Jaffaqwerty12_N900: i.e. the big icon button with faded highlight on press?00:02
GeneralAntilleschampus, until what's cracked?00:02
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champusgeneralantilles: the prop bits00:03
* realitygaps waiting for the fax killer app00:03
qwerty12_N900Jaffa: Yes, that's what they are called in the Application Manager source code00:03
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ShadowJKOT: review of booklet 3g: "If Apple made a netbook, this is what it would have been"00:04
javispedroah, the ORANGE button in SDK.00:04
Jaffaqwerty12_N900: Right. And it's its own impl?00:04
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, how's Linux support?00:04
champushm, general question: is the n900 with maemo also interesting for lets say teeny girls with daddys credit card? or is it too geeky for non-techier moneywasters?00:04
Jaffachampus: It's a bit bulky for that market, probably.00:04
* Jaffa heard a Nokian describe it as "masculine"00:04
* Jaffa TVs00:04
qwerty12_N900Jaffa: Yep.
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, no idea00:05
GeneralAntillesAlthough everybody I've shown Maemo 5 to has loved it.00:05
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Jaffaqwerty12_N900: One to submit to HildonExtras?00:05
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, I think it's powervr too, so you're kinda like a roman slave on a trireme when it comes to drivers00:05
javispedroqwerty12_N900: lemme guess. the code is 100% duplicated in the clock app?00:06
javispedroah, the clock app is closed.00:06
champusjaffa: is it to bulky for its features (screen size etc.)? or is it just that with its components its a little bit too big in comparison to less equiped smartphones?00:06
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qwerty12_N900Jaffa: Yeah, that idea had crossed my mind00:06
lcukwhats this fancy button for00:06
lcukyeah i know00:07
qwerty12_N900Guess it should be proposed on -developers00:07
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lcuki cant see the start of the convo00:07
champuswill i think: yeah, nice screen, need to grap my whole hand around it00:07
champusor will i think: hm, screen is nice but what about all the plastic around it?00:07
javispedrothose are the fancy buttons, aren't them?00:07
javispedrothe "orange" buttons for those of us who still DON't HAVE AN N900.00:07
* lcuk laffs00:07
GeneralAntilleschampus, people who have only looked at numbers on the internet like to bitch about the thickness.00:08
* GeneralAntilles doesn't see it as an issue.00:08
GeneralAntillesSince everything else they compare it to doesn't match up feature-wise.00:08
lcukwhat part is fancy00:08
lcukand are they new00:08
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champusgeneralantilles: okay, so the size is acceptable in relation to the features / hardware?00:08
lcukthey would just be clickable glyphs00:08
lcukwhy are they doing anything differnt00:08
ShadowJKoperators here marketed a "mese phone" to teeny girls. "mese" being short for MSN Messenger. Apparently that's all they use their computers for.00:08
champusgeneralantilles: as i usually say: size doesn't matter - money makes the world go round! :D00:08
GeneralAntilleschampus, the size really isn't an issue.00:09
GeneralAntillesUnless you wear hotpants all of the time.00:09
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champusgeneralantilles: i don't wear any clothes00:09
luke-jrchampus: N8x0 were never "cracked" even to today00:09
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realitygapssize is great imho, fits in a belt little holder like any other phone...00:09
lcukhas anyone checked if they are waterproof00:09
champusgeneralantilles: hmm well, surely: i like to wear jeans which sometimes fit tight - the trackball of my blackberry bold got crapped by keeping the blackberry in my jeans when beeing in clubs and moving around fast etc.00:10
realitygapsshould get guaka to do it seeing as he's bricked already :)00:10
javispedrochampus: if you don't have any clothes you can cirurgically insert it on your right leg.00:10
* qwerty12_N900 points out that they are loaned00:10
champusgeneralantilles: could this be a problem for the n900 to? don't want to use my guarantee again every 3 - 4 months -_-00:10
lcukqwerty12_N900, agreed00:10
luke-jrchampus: warranty*00:10
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champusyeah.. that's what i mean00:10
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GeneralAntilleschampus, there's no parts sticking out to be broken.00:11
realitygapschampus: id worry most about the screen, otherwise it seems pretty solid00:11
realitygapschampus: ive dropped mine a few times too and taken it clubbing more than once00:11
* lcuk has seen a damaged n90000:11
lcukwith a dent in the bezel and a chip in the screen00:11
* javispedro will miss the soft carrying case00:12
champusi'm using this old nokia mobilephone right now waiting for t-mobile sending me a new blackberry... this just sucks... i hope the n900 is as stable as my old nokia here, i can do anything with it and it still works00:12
* qwerty12_N900 has seen a really early proto of the N900. Same thing...00:12
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luke-jrjavispedro: what replaced it?00:12
lcukqwerty12_N900, same what?00:12
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lcukchampus, thats something nokias always are00:12
javispedroluke-jr: other than suposedly being more scratchproof, nothing that I know of.00:12
qwerty12_N900lcuk: The early protos looking fugly, so you could say they were "damaged"...00:13
lcuknahhh swans00:13
ShadowJKjavispedro, there is one for N900 too (carrying case)00:13
lcukrough diamonds00:13
ShadowJKbut it isn't included00:13
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javispedroShadowJK: from Nokia? didn't see it.00:13
ShadowJKyes from nokia00:14
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dmj726I found a good use for iphones:
champuswould be a nice feeling having a luxurious, feature rich and helpful smartphone which i can pull out of my trouser pocket after dancing 10 hours without having to worry about destroeyed keys..00:14
ShadowJKjavispedro, CP-32100:14
realitygapsjavispedro: pretty easy to find a case. Ive got two good ones already one from golla and a holster from digipack00:14
realitygapsjavispedro: generic but a nice fit00:14
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javispedrorealitygaps: the pretty thing about the n810 is that it exactly fitted the device00:14
luke-jrjavispedro: no case at all?!00:14
luke-jrjavispedro: and the display is still exposed?!00:14
javispedroluke-jr: sold separately
realitygapsjavispedro: the belt holster i got randomly in weeze airport is a perfect fit00:15
luke-jrthat's retarded00:15
javispedroluke-jr: but I agree.00:15
luke-jrthat is one of the big reasons I prefer clamshells00:15
champusdo you think that it will be possible soon to use all the integrated hardware in n900? want to send my gps location every 2 minutes to my webserver00:15
javispedroit will the first device I buy with totally unprotected screen.00:15
luke-jrscreen is protected all the time00:15
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champusthink i have to code a daemon e.g. for it00:15
javispedroyou can do whatever you want, champus.00:15
realitygapschampus: im working on something similar at the mo00:15
champusbut don't wanna talk to the gps module in asm... are there hardware apis?00:15
luke-jrchampus: I don't see what's so difficult to do about that00:15
luke-jr... asm? wtf?00:15
realitygapschampus: python should be able to interface with it00:16
luke-jrof course there's APIs..00:16
javispedrochampus: start by reading liblocation documentation.00:16
champusso there are python libs for the integrated hardware?00:16
dmj726GPS use is included right?00:16
champuswhat the fuck00:16
champusthat really rules00:16
dmj726no extra thing you have to pay for?00:16
javispedro"GPS use" is free.00:16
luke-jrPython sucks :/00:16
realitygapsdmj726: depends what u mean by gps use00:16
javispedroroad to road navigation, now...00:16
luke-jrdmj726: GPS is hardware, not service00:16
luke-jrah, true00:17
qwerty12_N900A kitten dies everytime someone uses liblocation00:17
luke-jrmapping apps are all crap :(00:17
champusand a last question00:17
champusbut its optional00:17
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champus:00:17 family had said they heard you had to pay for it, which was news to me.00:17
javispedroqwerty12_N900: ah, didn't know it was banned. closed, or just useless?00:17
realitygapsqwerty12_N900: is there a good alternative?00:17
dmj726(When they were at the Chicago event)00:17
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luke-jrrealitygaps: libgps00:17
champuswill i be able to call people with the n900 and talk to them using an integrated microphone and listen to them using a speaker?00:17
champusyeah i know00:18
champusi can use icq00:18
champusoder skype00:18
realitygapsluke-js:  thx, saw that link just now00:18
champusto communicate00:18
champusbut i'm retro00:18
lcukchampus, you mean hands free?00:18
champusno i mean "making a phone call"00:18
luke-jrit's a phone00:18
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lcukhands free00:18
luke-jrwtf do you expect? O.o00:18
qwerty12_N900realitygaps, javispedro: Please ignore me, one of my stupid comments :)00:18
realitygapsyep speaker works nice00:18
dmj726So will I be able to find my location and get it to plot directions without any particular service?00:18
luke-jrdmj726: no00:19
champusluke-jr: well, with all these features it wouldn't be hard to forget that it is a smart_phone_00:19
luke-jrdmj726: plotting directions is not GPS00:19
realitygapsdmj726: you can do a route without a service ive managed to00:19
lcukdmj726, you can plot location, but without a map for reference...00:19
champusluke-jr: as i said - would take a long time until i realize that there is no phone feature if they forgot it00:19
dmj726ah...then what would I need to pay for there?00:19
dmj726so no maps are included?00:19
luke-jrdmj726: probably software and maps00:19
realitygapsdmj726: ovi maps allows me to add a route (from/to points) even without net access.00:19
GeneralAntillesdmj726, Ovi Maps is bundled.00:19
champusor what its called00:19
luke-jrdmj726: you can download OpenStreetMaps maps, but no decent software to use it exists yet00:20
GeneralAntillesIt some approximation of routing00:20
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realitygapsdmj726: you can download all the map files - ive got all of europe in ovi maps even without net connection00:20
champuswill i be able to manipulate pictures taken with the internal camera on gimp right after shooting them?00:20
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luke-jrchampus: GIMP ftl00:20
luke-jrchampus: use Krita :D00:20
realitygapschampus: ive done that using gimp in a debian chroot00:20
javispedrochampus: GIMP on 800x480?00:20
realitygapsluke-jr: and also krita :)00:20
champusthis could help me with my problem showing people pictures from club evenings without editing them before (huge pupils etc)00:21
dmj726okay, so Ovi maps will let me plot a route between where I am, and a given street/city?00:21
realitygapsdmj726: not in the most efficient way , but it works00:21
champushow is typing at the n900 keyboard? does it feel fast after you learned it?00:21
dmj726(I don't necessarily need it to voice announce or anything)00:21
realitygapsdmj726: you cant search for a location without being online at present in ovimaps on n900 :(00:21
dmj726What is inefficient?00:21
realitygapsdmj726: but you can find the start and end points and it calculates the route00:22
realitygapsdmj726: hope that improves with release00:22
champusi'm a fucking fast typper on real keyboard so i need to be able to type very very quick on the smartphone otherwise i'll get bored ...00:22
realitygapschampus: its pretty decent for such a small keybd00:22
champusbut the whitespace sucks aight?00:22
luke-jrchampus: typing on a handheld is completely different from typing on a full keyboard.00:22
dmj726So I can tell it to plot a route between yere and 123 residential rd, Hometown USA?00:22
champusluke-jr: i know... typed with many handhelds00:23
dmj726(made up place of course)00:23
realitygapsdmj726: you would need to find the point on the map rather than entering the address00:23
dmj726or do I need to be online for that?00:23
luke-jrdmj726: inefficient as in, it might take an hour to drive the route it gives you when Google's route might take 45 minutes00:23
KMFDMchampus, well i couldn't see myself typing any faster using just my thumbs00:23
tbfchampus: not perfect, but definitely good enough00:23
champusluke-jr: but some are that crappy designed you really feel that its design is stopping you from tying as fast as it would be possible with these small keys00:23
realitygapsdmj726: to enter the address you need to be online00:23
luke-jrchampus: if your standard is Zaurus, then it probably sucks00:23
champusluke-jr: never heard of zaurus00:23
tbfchampus: seems i start typing blindly when IMing and walking00:23
realitygapsluke-jr: i thought it was pretty good compared to c86000:23
dmj726otherwise I would need like lat/long?00:23
luke-jrchampus: Zaurus was a handheld about 5 years ago. it had an awesome kb00:23
champustbf: well that should be possible on every smartphone, otherwise its just crap00:24
champusahh one more question, then i'll stop bothering you00:24
realitygapsdmj726: afai remember you need to locate it visually but can also use your gps position as one of the points00:24
KMFDMi find it a bit hard to type blind without accidentally hitting other keys00:24
luke-jrZaurus SL-C760:
champusis there usb input / output and will there be something like a docking station?00:24
* realitygaps is still running his zaurus on BSD00:24
luke-jrchampus: ok, now you need to seriously just go read the specs00:24
dmj726ah...that should really be improved.00:25
luke-jrI wish I could force a company to build a modern Zaurus-phone :/00:25
champusluke-jr: you're right, but the last questions i asked where answered on a way it let my phantasy go wild00:26
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tbfchampus: still the keyboard is not good enough, that i wouldn't login via ssh for complex debugging sessions00:26
champusluke-jr: specs only say: "yes" or "no". as i asked for the keyboard you made comparisions, explanations usw00:26
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champusbetter to imagine00:26
realitygapsluke-jr: there are some nice advantages on the n900 over the zauruses....00:27
realitygapsluke-jr: even the n8x0's00:27
luke-jrchampus: but USB is merely yes or no :p00:27
realitygapsluke-jr: like inbuilt wifi00:27
luke-jrrealitygaps: not when it comes to keyboard00:27
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luke-jrand design00:27
luke-jrby modern, I meant updated hardware ;)00:27
luke-jr256+ MB RAM, decent CPU, builtin wifi/gsm00:27
realitygapsluke-jr: fair point but the n900 does a pretty decent job and is finally a good replacement (for me) for the zauruses and psions00:27
realitygapsclamshell was nice for sure00:28
realitygapsand the twist screen00:28
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luke-jrI don't care much for the twist screen tbh00:28
dmj726zaurus looks like a pandora00:29
luke-jrbut I suppose it could be handy if someone wanted to hold it up like a phone00:29
SpeedEvilchampus: exact status of USB is up-in-the-air00:29
dmj726like I said, you want a pandora with a gsm module.00:29
luke-jrdmj726: yeah, Pandora might be a decent replacement00:29
luke-jryou cant' just add a gsm module tho00:29
dmj726I know00:29
luke-jrPandora is IIRC also missing a lot of keys00:29
champustbf: hmmm... but what about connecting a keyboard via usb or bluetooth (if this is possible)00:29
champustbf: is working in a shell feeling good on the screen?00:29
champusnokia store says it will be released this month right?00:29
luke-jrchampus: BT keyboard is supported00:29
dmj726you can have bluetooth keyboards I believe00:29
realitygapsworking in a shell is as good as it could be at that sorta screen size00:29
SpeedEvilchampus: It may be capable of witht minimal hacking to connect external USB devices. You will at least need power. but this has not been confirmed.00:30
champusrelease this month but no info bout usb status?00:30
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champushaving a docking station would be nice00:30
champusthis would be fckn smart00:30
GeneralAntilleschampus, USB Consortium may be screwing us over.00:30
SpeedEvilchampus: one of the few people with a n900 would have to actually try doing USB host mode. And none have - and reported it.00:30
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GeneralAntilleschampus, there are some complications with USB charging.00:31
GeneralAntillesSo, we don't know yet.00:31
dmj726I would really like to see host mode attempted.00:31
champuswe'll see00:31
luke-jrdmj726: N810 had host mode.00:31
SpeedEvilUSB charging should not affect things though - other than regulatorarily.00:31
dmj726I know00:31
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, that's the point.00:31
SpeedEvilBut - it's possible there are bugs or other reasons it won't work.00:31
dmj726But I'm only interested in the n900 at the moment00:31
GeneralAntillesThe USB idiots may have made them prevent it in hardware.00:32
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: they can't easily.00:32
tbfchampus: terminal as 62 columns by default and is excellent to read00:32
dmj726Hopefully prevent in hardware means just no power00:32
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champusit will be such a niice feeling wearing my bittorrent server in my trowsers pocket while it's exploiting nsa servers and sending my gps position to my friends when i'm outside but not when i'm at my friends girlfriends (excepting he is online in icq)00:32
champuswoah everything is possible00:32
RST38hGeneral: The way I heard it, USB host + USB charging do not work well together00:32
tbfchampus: you can zoom it with the volume keys. even 100+ cols a readable00:32
champuswasn't this nokias quote?00:32
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RST38hGeneral: I have not been able to understand if it is a hardware incompatibility or the need to write firmware support00:33
champusso i could keep track on our servers very comfortable00:33
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: the USB host/device port is built into the SoC - IIRC I looked at the specs briefly a while ago, and saw no device only port. There is no simple way to break it - and having no power is functionally broken enough.00:33
RST38hGeneral: But it is serious enough to keep them from having host mode00:33
dmj726I would say that you definitely couldn't host and charge at once, but hosting while on battery is potentially another matter.00:33
SpeedEvilchampus: having stuff active all the time will kill your battery life though.00:33
champusspeedevil: right00:33
SpeedEvilIIRC some people have managed to get it down to 2 hours.00:33
champusspeedevil: but in comparison to this crappy blackberry battery life will be endless as i read00:33
champuswhate fuck00:34
javispedro2 hours!00:34
champus2 hours sucks00:34
dmj726yeah, but a power injected flash drive shouldn't be too bad00:34
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SpeedEvilThat's 2 hours using it as a modem through bluetooth00:34
SpeedEviland transferring files through 3G I think00:34
dmj726n900 at only 2 hours!00:34
SpeedEvilIt's _not_ 2 hours normal use00:34
champushm... what do you think, how long will the battery stand doing some usual internet surfing, listening to music and chatting?00:34
luke-jrSpeedEvil: active network is normal use for me00:34
javispedrosounds way too low even for extreme use.00:34
champusstandard smartphone use00:34
SpeedEviljavispedro: I forget who it was.00:35
GeneralAntillesI haven't managed to hit 2 hours even with playing video.00:35
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: radio can use lots of power at edge of coverage00:35
dmj726managed to hit below 6?00:35
GeneralAntillesI get about 8-16 hours heavy to medium usage.00:35
javispedroI can manage nearly 3-4 hours with the n810 stuck in a reboot loop, and my battery IS bad (confirmed in the reboot loop thread)00:35
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luke-jrjavispedro: what? my N810 can't even last 3 hours idle.00:35
champuswill it be possible to change the battery with a better one (if a better one gets released)?00:35
javispedroyour definition of idle is quite interesting :)00:36
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, that's why you don't run Gentoo.00:36
luke-jr(where my "idle" is defined as GPS alive)00:36
javispedroluke-jr: I get 6 hours with navicore00:36
javispedrowell, more like 5.00:36
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: and what exactly are you blaming in Gentoo?00:36
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: diablo kernel, note00:36
javispedroit covered an entire 600km travel :)00:36
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, libraries and software not optimized for power saving.00:37
johnsqGeneralAntilles: *lol*00:37
champuscan someone explain me how to install my cracked windows xp prof. (original version) on my nokia n900? i want to play counterstrike and this doesnt work with linux, linux is so scheisse...00:37
dmj726have you tried WINE in an x86 emulator?00:38
GeneralAntillesjohnsq, "lol" what? :)00:38
dmj726(may run slow)00:38
johnsqGeneralAntilles: about your stupid statement00:38
champusok, serious question concerning my drug- and humanbusiness: is cryptoloop device and luks partition posible to integrate?00:38
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dmj726wasn't there news about some stupid xp phone?00:39
champusdmj726: seriously, are there chances to run some good supported win applications with wine? lol ^^00:39
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GeneralAntillesjohnsq, _I_ made a stupid statement?00:39
dmj726note at any reasonable rate00:39
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SpeedEvilwine+qemu may be suitable for some very, very limited apps.00:39
SpeedEvilBut you will be looking at a speed of perhaps 50MHz x86 equivalent.00:40
champuswhat kind of material is the touch screen? i don't wanna have a kind of display which gets crappy when snorting chemicals from it...00:40
SpeedEvilSo functionally not.00:40
dmj726you would be running wine in a linux system running on an emulated x86 processor running on a 600mhz arm cpu00:40
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dmj726windows 3.1 is slow on n90000:40
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champuserm, what i really mean - does the display stand intensive all day use or does it get scraches fast?00:41
pupniknice background map image (from the n900 meetup page)
GeneralAntilleschampus, as far as I can tell from using it intensely for the past couple months it's scratch-proof.00:41
javispedrook, wtf.00:41
GeneralAntillesNow, I don't put keys or used razor blades in my pocket with my N900, so. . . .00:41
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SpeedEvilAlso - IMO - a screen protector gets away from that issue.00:42
champusand my very very last question: does it have this specific "wow" effect when you pull it out of your jeans? i mean, do even big titted girls get impressed just by the way the n900 promotes itself in your hand?00:42
javispedroyou asked that twice.00:42
* luke-jr locks champus up.00:43
champusi first asked if these girls would by it for their own00:43
champusbut now i want to know if it fits to my lifestyle00:43
champustime is over were i'm hanging out with fat kernel hackers explaining them the specs of my new 10 baud modem from 198900:43
champuswanna pull good working high tech out of my jeans letting all girls know bout my sexual empowerment with just one view00:44
champushrmpf.. kk, im stopping it00:44
champusso, it does look good on the first view aight?00:44
Jaffachampus: yes00:44
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dmj726It looks "chunky" from all accounts.00:45
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luke-jrGeneralAntilles: where can I get these supposed patches?00:45
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champusif it HAS the power the chunky design announces thats okay00:46
champusotherwise it would be a 1989' gameboy...00:46
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dmj726I suspect it was power.00:47
champusare there interesting maemo projects i can put my mighty coding skillz on?00:47
dmj726short answer: YES.00:47
champussomething maemo specifig, don't wanna code for ported projects00:47
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luke-jrchampus: platform-specific projects are stupid00:48
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champusluke-jr: what i meant was, i dont wanna be part in a oss project like gnu tools, kernel, firefox eg00:48
dmj726How about a slr-style advanced video/still camera app00:48
dmj726with extra controls and variable focus during the video00:48
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champusluke-jr: better like to provide fresh software with never-seen-before-features00:48
champusi hate multimedia00:49
luke-jrchampus: if you mean you want to write something closed, then I will just ignore your project completely00:49
champusexception: porn00:49
champusluke-jr: no, nothing closed00:49
champusluke-jr: but something new which could be very handy having it on the n90000:49
dmj726He just doesn't want to do a port of a desktop app, I think00:49
champusluke-jr: maybe something fitting to the hardware00:49
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dmj726but not the awesome camera app?00:49
champusdon't know, can't imagine what would be nice to have00:49
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luke-jrchampus: I have a number of ideas, but nothing simple.00:50
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champusfor example?00:50
kynkyim thinking of doing something withh ffmpeg xcb and haskell00:50
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champusluke-jr: im very good at doing this nasty network-systools-hacker stuff...00:51
luke-jrchampus: I would like to tell my handheld my travel plans, toss it in my pocket, and let it manage giving me directions including planning food/sleep stops.00:51
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luke-jrchampus: also mapping WiFi access points on the way, especially for areas where GSM connectivity is scarse00:52
champusluke-jr: well wifi access recording / mapping is easy possible using erm00:52
champuswhat was it called00:52
SpeedEvilUnless you use the funky new WPA vulnerability.00:52
luke-jrchampus: regarding food stops, it should have a general idea of the food pyramid to ensure I am well fed :p00:52
champusdunno, have to look... shows every wifi access point on a map using the gps module00:52
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luke-jrchampus: kismet is barely maintained from what I can tell00:53
champushmm.. often used with wpareplay00:53
champuskismet right00:53
champusbut the other way round00:53
champusnot searching for but automatically connecting to available defined spots00:53
luke-jrplotting their location and range on a geographical map.00:54
champusthis map stuff sucks... all the vector shit and plotting etc00:54
champusway to much multimedia for me00:54
luke-jrmight be interesting to try to connect to them and send a packet to the GSM IP, logging the AP's WAN IP too00:54
champusshould be easy00:54
luke-jrfor phone-less devices, connect to and sync IMs ;)00:54
champusthis is the stuff i mean with n900 specifig00:55
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luke-jrchampus: nothing N900 specific about it really00:55
luke-jrjust as applicable to a laptop00:55
luke-jror car computer00:55
luke-jror wearable00:55
champusi could set up an alarm daemon for my media server - then i lay my n900 to the appartements front door letting it scan for new bluetooth devices00:56
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champusif one is called "my bitch girlfriends cheap handy" it will connect to the alarm daemon and stop all porn beeing played right now00:56
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luke-jrthat's a simple project, sure00:56
champusits simple but dude... imagine... this would be godlike00:56
luke-jror how about you just delete the porn and stop bragging on being a sex abuser?00:57
champusits like dividing by zero00:57
champuswhat does "sex" ... "abuser" mean?00:57
luke-jrsure, sexual abuse is prevailant in modern culture, but at least some people are properly ashamed of it00:57
champuswell, people who have problems with sex shouldn't have a n90000:58
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luke-jrchampus: there's a difference between sex and sexual abuse00:58
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champusonly people without sex should have access to the mighty forces of... a machine beeing to small for netbook and to big for smartphone00:58
champusahh you mean sexual harrasment?00:58
luke-jrporn is about the same as rape in my eyes00:59
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champushm... can't really imagine how the n900 could increase my raping efficiency?00:59
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champusbut propably the hardware will make it possible somehow!00:59
champusi love this thing00:59
champuswould be also a good phone for kids btw00:59
champustotal control00:59
champusgps tracking etc01:00
pupniktimsamoff takes some very nice pictures!01:00
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champuswhat about doing some table calculation01:01
champusonly little stuff, posting workout data into a little table01:01
* luke-jr puts champus on ignore.01:01
champusgoing to leave no01:01
champushave a nice evening :)01:02
champusbtw: androids better than maemo you faps01:02
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RST38hI think it is from 4chan lingo01:05
dmj726It seemed he was compensating for something.01:07
GeneralAntillesOK, 2 hours clean and feeling good.01:08
pupniki hope that was an unrelated thought01:08
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javispedrothis does not make any sense. when clutter "fails" its trying to convert bitmaps to rgb88801:09
RST38hdmj726: penis length?01:09
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dmj726RST38h: I'll leave it up to you to decide.01:09
RST38hnot that many alternatives when you come to think of it...01:10
javispedrogadget size01:10
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pupnikmhz wars01:12
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* javispedro curses01:27
javispedro  if (cogl_check_extension ("GL_EXT_packed_pixel", gl_extensions))01:27
javispedroglxinfo | grep packed_pixel ->  GL_EXT_packed_pixels01:28
javispedro GL_EXT_packed_pixel*s*01:28
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javispedroeither a typo, or some gl extension that google knows only 6 hits about01:31
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javispedrovs _packed_pixels which has 130,000 hits...01:32
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javispedroand most of the _packed_pixel 6 hits come from go figure.01:32
javispedrosdk color issue fixed.01:33
javispedroand even optimized since there's now one less texture conversion.01:34
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lcukjavispedro, check this01:34
* javispedro scores triple by deleting family photos01:36
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ccookeEvening, all01:38
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lcukhi ccooke01:48
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* VDVsx is bored01:51
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* lcuk is full of pizza01:52
* SpeedEvil cures VDVsx's boredom.01:52
* SpeedEvil puts away the petrol can and lighter.01:52
* lcuk folds VDVsx up and puts him to be recycled.01:52
* lcuk talks to the pizzabox01:52
lcukwrong way round01:52
* javispedro finally sees the HildonAwesomeButton or whatever its called in awesome blue, and not awful Ubuntu orange.01:54
VDVsxlcuk, I don't need to be recycled yet, I still have around 5 years of guarantee ;)01:54
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lcukmmm my a key is sticking01:55
* lcuk will clean and oil it tomorrow01:55
Proteouswhich key?01:56
lcukmy a key01:57
lcuklike i sid01:57
GeneralAntillespupnik, sorry, free of Talk. :P01:57
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, howdy, successor. :P01:57
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, what I did now ?01:58
dmj726n900 <a> key?01:58
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, nothing, we just decided that you're the new me and gcobb is the new Jaffa. ;)01:58
VDVsxno one  picked PB ? :P01:58
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GeneralAntillesI might nominate lardman for that one. ;)01:59
ccookeGeneralAntilles: Who are you, then?02:00
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GeneralAntillesccooke, I'm me.02:00
GeneralAntillesFounding members don't have precursors. :P02:00
VDVsxtexrat also needs precursor then ;)02:00
ccookeGeneralAntilles: so you're last year's model? :-)02:01
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GeneralAntillesccooke, indeed. ;)02:01
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, probably timsamoff.02:02
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javispedro^^^or how I fixed the orange colors in SDK.02:02
* javispedro sighs02:02
GeneralAntillesThere, there, javispedro.02:03
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* javispedro is bored now too.02:05
GeneralAntillesKill some time!
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pupnik_is this the Serge we know from Maemo?  Augmented Reality Tower Defense for N97
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: not bad! though I wonder if fullscreen Java applets won't cause havoc.02:19
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, wish it were open source and not Java.02:19
GeneralAntillesAlthough trying to control it on the N900 would be hell.02:19
javispedrowell, gnite02:20
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* GeneralAntilles hopes TI picks up the Mali.02:25
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pupnik_do we expect android crapplets will run on n900?02:27
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GeneralAntillesIf somebody ports the framework.02:28
GeneralAntillesI'd just as soon hope they don't.02:28
GeneralAntillesDon't want an OS/2 situation. ;)02:28
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acidjazzfor hte love of all tahts holy03:31
acidjazzwhen is the freaking n900 going to ship already03:31
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pupnik_when its ready03:34
pupnik_third week nov i think03:34
GAN900acidjazz, should be soon.03:35
pupnik_btw, get a screen protector03:35
acidjazzwell how about i dont drop my phone :)03:35
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GAN900pupnik, what'd you do?03:43
pupnik_must have set it face-down onto sand and rolled it around a while03:43
pupnik_looks it03:44
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pupnik_one sand piece03:44
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GAN900I'm hopinh Boxwave will have a protector out soon.03:44
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pupnik_summit was fun03:45
pupnik_i want to do more meetups03:45
pupnik_code vacation03:45
GAN900I want to get one in Canada next year.03:46
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GeneralAntillesNearly 5 hours clean!03:51
dmj726of what?03:53
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dmj726I just made a graph of iphone apps vs popularity03:57
dmj726Nothing is visibly used after the top 1%03:57
dmj726pretty good approximation.03:58
lcukbut thats ok03:58
lcukapp stores arent useful for everyone03:58
lcukthere are more vertical market apps in the world than popular ones03:58
dmj726Shows how the app store isn't a very good business plan for developers03:58
lcukthe person that makes a generic hobby spotting (birdwatching/trainwatching/mushroomhunting/fishing) engine will do well03:59
lcukit can be03:59
* lcuk coughs @ fiferboy 03:59
dmj726lcuk: that's a great n900 app idea!03:59
lcukyeah fiferboy already has most of his engine03:59
lcukand he needs to make it generic04:00
lcukand then it can be used for any hobby04:00
lcuktheres 100 apps04:00
lcukso 100 of the lowly apps which each have 1000 users...04:01
GeneralAntillesI'd like to see that graph correlated with price.04:01
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CutMeOwnThroatwould the average iphone user install any additional software anyway?04:16
CutMeOwnThroator would that be "too complicated"04:16
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GeneralAntillesThe Sholes has really sharp edges on its slide.04:42
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samadi am confused Maemo_5_developer guide uses  csp_filter = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter"); for camera  but dont use04:48
samadanybody ? any help ?04:51
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pupnik_hilighting text is really stylus work05:46
pupnik_yaay for resistive screen05:46
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GeneralAntillespupnik_, shift+arrow keys.05:48
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pupnik_GeneralAntilles: is that implemented somewhere in maemo5?05:49
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GeneralAntillesMost text areas.05:50
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vladovghi all06:10
vladovgtraing to install this06:10
vladovgbut ay am stuck06:10
vladovgmkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p306:10
vladovgand its gev my a error06:11
pupnik_YOUTUBE on N800, N810: mytube users can append  +"&fmt=6" to searchstring and the tubes will play smoothly even while downloading06:11
lcukvladovg, b-man isnt around now, but hes obviously the best person to ask06:11
pupnik_what error vladovg06:11
vladovgbin/sh: mkfs.ext3: not found06:11
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vladovgits sompting wit the IT06:12
pupnik_perhaps you need to install a package to get ext306:12
vladovgtink its comming strath wit the diablo06:13
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vladovggoogle it but nothing about06:13
pupnik_ok i look06:13
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pupnik_mkfs -t ext3 ?06:15
pupnik_does that work?06:15
vladovgo noo06:15
vladovgay did not test this06:16
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vladovgbin/sh: mkfs: not found06:17
vladovgmkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p106:17
vladovgmkswap /dev/mmcblk0p206:17
vladovgworcking fine06:17
pupnik_ok found it06:18
vladovgbut no luck for ext306:18
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pupnik_install console-toolÃs06:20
pupnik_install console-tools06:20
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vladovgjust apt-get06:20
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vladovggiv my the package is missing06:22
vladovgand ay have all aveilable packege sources on the web for maemo06:23
pupnik_use t.m.o. search also06:24
vladovgso ay need to install Bootmenu06:25
pupnik_i maybe was wrong sorry06:25
pupnik_that threas should help06:26
vladovgto get the ext306:26
vladovgwrong fo console-tools06:26
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pupnik_web is so slow!06:29
pupnik_stealing my time...06:29
Vulcanisthe web is always stealing your time06:30
vladovghah its some true in yo words06:32
pupnik_vladovg, i am waiting for a search result from maemo repository search06:32
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vladovgay am thear wath eksakli yu search06:34
vladovgnothig found for ext306:35
vladovgin gronmayer06:35
pupnik_apt-get install e2fsprogs06:36
pupnik_that is it, i forgot06:36
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vladovgit on qole repo06:37
vladovgthak yu veri mach for helping06:38
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pupnik_the force is strong with this... qole...06:41
vladovghah worck like a charm now06:42
pupnik_tell us how ubuntu works for you06:42
vladovgmaibi ay will need more help lit dis ubuntu install06:42
vladovgay did not anderstan from wear did ay get the boot menu06:43
pupnik_flasher or from a command on device06:43
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pupnik_and how are you communicating from chaucer's england?06:45
pupnik_"Whan that apryl, with his shores soute, the drought of march hath perced to the roote. and bathed every veyne in sweet liqueur..."06:46
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wazdmornin' everyone06:47
vladovggood morning06:47
vladovgwich wai is the isiest to set up boot06:47
pupnik_i only did it once.06:48
samadi am implementing camera for n900 to take a pic i can't understand csp_filter = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter");06:48
pupnik_csp is camera streap processor?06:49
pupnik_csp is camera stream processor?06:49
samadMaemo_5_SDK user manual uses csp_filter = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter"); but fremental sdk camera example dont use this06:50
samadso i am confuse06:50
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DerSaidinthat appears to be a filter06:54
DerSaidinit might not be required to apply any filters06:54
samadwhen i initialize pipeline the following error occure GST_MESSAGE_ERROR message_str = : gstbasesrc.c(2551): gst_base_src_start (): /GstPipeline:pipeline/GstV4l2CamSrc:camera_src:06:54
samadCheck your filtered caps, if any06:54
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vladovgdownloading the image now06:57
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vladovgay dont see in the Installation description how to set up the boot menu06:58
vladovgor its not shown ever in the page06:59
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samadwhat is the video source name of N900 ??07:13
samad"v4l2camsrc" or  ??07:14
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vladovgay got to the07:28
vladovgLast we need to install sys-env-* to finish the installation of the system, there are currently two options:07:28
vladovgdid ay install this in diablo Xterm07:29
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vladovgand how to boot in the Ubuntu07:29
vladovgafter all this07:30
vladovgAssuming you've chosen sys-env-x, run the following while chrooted in ubuntu07:30
vladovgso it is in ubuntu xterm07:30
vladovghmm so now ay nedd to boot up in the ubuntu07:31
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vladovgbut how07:31
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* |R hopes that some next update to Maemo will scrap busybox for the real thing now that we will have at least 32GB!07:35
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vladovgsome one07:37
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* brbrbr is away: I'm busy07:49
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* GeneralAntilles bemoans Comcast.07:54
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Macern900 in 10 days?08:00
Maceris that rumor true?08:00
Macerthey are releasing in 10 days08:00
tigertyou'll know the answer in ... 10 days! ;)08:03
GeneralAntillesMacer, if you can catch tigert you might be able to get it out of him. :P08:04
tigerti am too lazy to read those powerpoints anyway ;)08:04
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* Macer already has his debit card ready08:22
Maceri will buy one a couple weeks afterwards08:22
Macerbecause i got a touchbook and preordering will never be an option ever again :)08:23
Stskeepsthat long wait?08:25
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RST38hChinese bureaucrats are battling each other for the right to regulate World of Warcraft. They hope to gain the political clout and the revenue that comes along with controlling a new industry with potential for explosive growth.08:43
brbrbrmove to point blank ;)08:44
brbrbror Eve08:45
brbrbrfrom weak democracy to complete dictatorship ;)08:45
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JaffaMorning, all08:51
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luke-jrbrbrbr: democracy? when did China cease to be communism?08:55
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brbrbrwhy you not ask, what to order turned USA himself, starting exploiting concntration camps labor in 198x ? p.s. let alone "free economical zomes" eupemerism to politicians08:57
brbrbrsucking blood from [already overopressed]countrises is not good exmaple for other contries, IMO. and no, i can't call this DENOCRACY08:57
brbrbrstop blocking Veimar-Vennic fix! let Americans work for americans and communists lay in own shit08:59
vladovgcan some one show mi how to config boot menu09:01
vladovgto boot up ubuntu09:02
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* RST38h did not expect to trigger a tantrum09:03
luke-jrbrbrbr: wtf are you talking about?09:07
luke-jrAmerica was never a democracy, either.09:07
brbrbrAMerica was pawn of same circles , whose made USSR and some other "events"09:08
brbrbrpoint is there is no such thing as "democracy"09:08
brbrbrits like "good" and "Evil" concept09:08
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brbrbrand work same way. in people's hearts09:08
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brbrbrand exploited too. sadly09:08
* Stskeeps gets more coffee09:09
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* Stskeeps glances at laptops to buy09:12
Stskeepslenovo still decent quality? :P09:13
Stskeepswell my wife's laptop has been through so much abuse :P09:15
StskeepsRST38h: what would you recommend then?09:15
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Stskeepsand no, not a nokia booklet.09:15
luke-jrStskeeps: not a N900?09:15
luke-jrsee, even you agree the N900 does not satisfy what is needed!09:15
Stskeepsi have a loaner n900 and will buy one09:15
Stskeepsluke-jr: i need to do a lot of cross-compilation and n900 isn't entirely good for that :P09:16
luke-jrStskeeps: ssh somewhere09:17
RST38hSts: I am buying Toshiba Porteges09:17
RST38hSts: They are pretty decent, and the hardware is dumb enough to use generic drivers09:17
Stskeepsluke-jr: when dealing with 400+ mb images to transfer, sshing isn't an option..09:17
RST38hSts: People say HP is ok, although not all models09:17
Stskeepsyeah but with a lot of crapware on it..09:18
Stskeepsnot that i'm not going to install linux anyway09:19
RST38hSts: They all come with crapware, the question is whether you can remove it or not09:19
luke-jrStskeeps: rsync while it builds09:19
RST38hSts: Lenovo's crapware cannot be easily removed as you won't be able to use some of the hardware if you remove it09:19
Stskeepsdell is something i want to avoid though.. i am sure it's mishandling of the fan made me unable to have children09:20
RST38hSts: Toshibas can be cleaned up with few ill effects, usually.09:20
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Stskeepsbasically i just need a workhorse that sits in a corner and has usb keyboard, mouse and screen connected :P09:20
dmj7261Linux is the ultimate anti-crapware09:20
RST38hSts: What is your target size/weight?09:21
Stskeepsweight is not too important.. less than 4 kg :P09:21
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luke-jrStskeeps: literally?09:21
RST38hSts: Maybe go for a Shuttle?09:22
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StskeepsRST38h: that box pc thing? no, need to take it travelling :P09:22
* Stskeeps ponders mbp.. :P09:22
RST38hDell XPS looks usable09:22
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RST38hSony has got the same problems with crapware as Lenovo, but may have got a bit better now, not sure.09:23
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, ritzy. :P09:23
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, but not worth it unless you're actually going to run OS X.09:23
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vladovgcd /etc/bootmenu.d09:27
vladovgand ay am stuck09:28
vladovgITEM_NAME="Jaunty on internal card, p3"09:28
vladovgITEM_ID="Jaunty on internal, p3"09:28
vladovgITEM_MODULES="mbcache jbd ext3"09:28
vladovghow to put all this in the directori09:28
Stskeepsmake a file jaunty.item09:28
Stskeepsand put that in there09:28
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Stskeepshm, guess it would be handy to have a machine with SD reader09:29
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vladovghow to mace the file09:29
vladovgay am a big noob to unix09:30
Stskeepsvi? :P09:30
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vladovgmy ubunto sits on external sd09:36
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vladovgdid ay have to change the Jaunty on internal card, p309:36
Stskeepsinstead of mmcblk0 write ${EXT_CARD}09:36
vladovgto Jaunty on external card, p309:36
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vladovgbut to live the p3 (partision3)09:38
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vladovgand how to save the file09:42
vladovgits not funni09:43
Stskeepsi'm not kidding09:43
Stskeepsescape, :w09:43
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Stskeepsooh. a shop that allows me to search for serial port ability09:44
Stskeepsi'm sold09:44
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RST38hAre there any laptops with rs232 left?09:49
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pupnik_RST38h: do you dislike lenovo compared to ibm thinkpads, or compared to competitor notebooks?09:53
RST38hpupnik: Both09:54
RST38hpupnik: I disliked IBM Thinkpads for ugly, heavy design and low quality screens, but they were at least sturdy and reliable09:54
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RST38hpupnik: Lenovo is more or less the same design, just cost-cut by a bunch of Chinese09:55
samadwhat is the video source name VIDEO_SRC of N900 ? any help ?09:55
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RST38hpupnik: It is no longer sturdy or reliable, made of cheap plastic now, etc09:55
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johnxRST38h, some are for sure. they still make decent one though09:56
RST38hjohnx: I have seen better and worse ones, but in general they look like those chinese "N95s" and "N900s" to me09:56
pupnik_samad the v4l device name?09:56
pupnik_i havent felt enough laptios but most feel like toys compared to thinkpads09:57
johnxRST38h, I couldn't care less what they look like. the reality is the x series at least is still reliable and comes with an awesome keyboard09:58
RST38hoold thinkpads, yes09:58
pupnik_i could google for yiu, or wat a sandwich09:58
RST38hnew thinkpads are not the same09:58
RST38hjohnx: I have to deal with T series at work. And it sucks.09:58
johnxRST38h, and I've gotten some good hands on time with the x200 and I'm *sold*09:59
RST38hjohnx: I am almost ready to drop mine to the floor, just to get HP as replacement09:59
johnxbut yeah, the difference between ibm's handling of the thinkpad line was that they refused to have a "budget" model09:59
johnxbut lenovo is putting together a whole spectrum09:59
pupnik_hp/compaq tc4200 / 4400 look interesting against x41t / x61t09:59
RST38hjohnx: Not buying any of 'em10:00
* RST38h is used to Porteges now10:00
johnxRST38h, I'm not selling you one :)10:00
johnxif I'm selling you one you'll see the little "the following IRC message is a paid advertisement for Lenovo (R) ThinkPads" message scroll by10:01
pupnik_anybody here used several x-series thinkpads?10:01
pupnik_i heat x6? with IPS display is nice10:01
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vladovghm my again10:04
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vladovgafter mace the jaunty and editet10:04
vladovgits not shown in the bootloader menu10:05
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javispedrothere's a rumour now about it being released in less than 10 days... all fansites are exploding in craze and agony10:56
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javispedroless time for something 3d capable!10:58
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javispedroand to think I hoped the TI 3D drivers would come first :(10:58
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javispedrohey, the Hermes logo is cool.11:00
javispedrothere's that quite noticeable missing alpha component in the HildonButtons though :(11:00
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pupnik_ui guideline strikes?11:02
javispedroI guess more like a limitation of sapwood...11:02
javispedro(but I dunno)11:02
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javispedromaybe the HildonAwesomeButtons are transparent. Either way I think they befit the interface better.11:03
pupnik_i think the whole shebang came together nice for team maemo, and congratulations are in order.11:03
pupnik_javispedro - i know why the caged bird sings ;)11:04
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javispedropupnik_: how's your loan? still bricked?11:05
johnxmmm...qt means no more sapwood, doesn't it? :D11:05
javispedrojonhx: unless they use QGtkStyle :evil:11:06
johnxNoooooooo.... *does the luke skywalker fall-off-the-ledge thing*11:07
pupnik_can i put 3.9v DC to battery for a couple hours?11:07
johnxpupnik_, what's put to it during charging?11:07
pupnik_dont know - apparently mine isnt getting a charge now11:08
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johnxcharging at a fixed voltage will probably kill it in a fiery way11:09
pupnik_sad... if a computer needs its OS running to charge its battery11:09
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javispedropupnik_: pity :(11:10
pupnik_maybe a drm feature?11:10
johnxahaha...prevents you from using unauthorized electrons11:10
javispedroand charging in authorized countries.11:10
pupnik_:)  no.  do-not-charge-lockout11:10
johnxjavispedro, eh. they already screwed up there by enabling charge from usb11:11
* javispedro smells business plan11:11
* pupnik_ smells *something*11:11
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pupnik_ah yes.  i love the smell of hot rampant speculation in the morning!11:12
* pupnik_ inhales deeply11:12
johnxyeah it goes like this: controlling charging through software is cheaper than having a dedicated hardware component11:12
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pupnik_are nokia replacement batteries delivered with charge?  i can order a spare BL-5J.11:15
johnxthey have some charge usually11:15
johnxmaybe 40%11:15
javispedroor probably11:16
javispedroyou can take it to a nokia store and have it charged11:16
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pupnik_wsis the cell radio modulated by software also?11:17
pupnik_i dont usually see chargers for such batteries11:17
pupnik_but good call11:17
javispedrothere are I'm sure11:17
javispedrobut I guess it depends on the mood of the clerk11:17
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* johnx sleeps11:18
javispedroI guess this marks the end of the night shift11:18
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javispedrook, according to lwn, the n900' baseband does not use Hayes commands11:34
Stskeepsno, but check cellmo-icp82-headers11:34
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tekojopupnik_ what's the battery story?11:59
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pupnik_i think it doesnt charge12:01
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wazdyou wouldn't fucking beleive it12:09
wazdNo way12:09
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wazdIt's a joke12:09
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anvith3Any body here worked on flite12:11
Stskeepswazd: army playing you again?12:11
wazdI came to take my release blank to send it to passport bureau and they said "you know, we think that those doctor summaries bout your health are fake and we need to investigate it"12:13
anvith3Flite is working on my n810  but there's a lag. Is there any text to speech voice syntesizer?12:14
Stskeepswazd: russia is truely fucked up..12:14
wazdI just have no words to comment it12:14
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anvith3The lag is a good 5 seconds sometimes12:14
Stskeepswazd: you should have asked on what basis12:16
Stskeepsand threatened to sue them :P12:16
wazdI asked12:16
wazdAnd threatened12:16
wazdThe case is: 4 years stomatology doctor at the army dep was writing that I'm ok12:17
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wazdAnd now, after my pressure and independent analysis he wroteathat I'm not12:18
wazdAnd they said that this is actually my problem, not theirs12:19
Stskeepsi would sue at this point :P12:19
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wazdAfter I said that I'm gonn sue them they told that I'm inadequate and they will call police and psycho12:20
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Stskeepspsycho? nothing insane in wanting to get out of the army :P12:20
wazdI said that I just passed psycho - I'm ok)12:21
wazdHe threatened that it can be changed12:21
wazdNow I'm waiting for my doctor to get a copy of my diagnosis to be safe12:22
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wazdBut it's the most ridiculous fuck up I've EVER faced on this planet12:23
pupnik_anvith3: that is longer than my delay on 77012:24
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pupnik_flite on 770 managed short three word bursts with < 1 second delay12:24
Stskeepswazd: so if you suddenly disappear it's cos they took you to bootcamp?12:25
pupnik_what length input text?12:25
anvith3For one or 2 words it gave about 2 sec12:26
anvith3Longer sentence takes longer12:26
pupnik_wazd, that is the nature of government12:26
wazdStskeeps: more probably I've blown up their office with expllosive belt12:26
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anvith3I installed the flite-multi.deb from penguin*'s website12:27
RST38hwazd: AGAIN?12:27
anvith3I dont remember his full id12:27
RST38hNoooo not again?12:27
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pupnik_be smart wazd12:27
wazdRST38h: yes, yes :D12:27
anvith3Is there any other package that is optimized12:28
pupnik_do you have browser open?12:28
pupnik_memory full?12:29
anvith3I have an idea of developing a text to sppech app12:29
anvith3Memory i'll have to chech12:29
pupnik_i look here12:29
wazdRST38h: dunno what to do, laugh or cry12:29
anvith3How do i do that?12:29
anvith3Check the memory i mean12:29
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Stskeepswazd: you can write a book about it12:30
pupnik_free or top12:30
wazdStskeeps: yeah, I have exactly same feeling bout it))12:31
wazdBut it would be in science fiction category12:31
pupnik_i do not have a flite build here.  another user wanted faster text to speech. his company made some custom health care application12:31
wazdCause it's just impossible to happen in the real life12:31
anvith3Do u remember who that was12:32
tekojopupnik_ does the device boot up if connected to charger?12:32
anvith3How do u check the memory in use and free memory?12:32
pupnik_anvith3: problem is the sentence parser needs to read whole sentence to decide how to speak the text, and i think it builds the whold output at once12:32
wazdIt should be started with bohemian rhapsody initial words12:33
pupnik_tekojo: tries to then hangs12:33
anvith3That much i understood12:33
pupnik_so öaybe if you can handle robot volice...12:33
pupnik_it can read phoneme-by-phoneme12:33
wazdIs this the real life, is this just fantasy, caught in a landslide and no escape from reality12:34
pupnik_they will not let me go!12:34
pupnik_no! no! no!12:34
wazdYeah yeah))12:34
RST38hwazd: Get a lawyer.12:35
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wazdJust gotta get out, just gotta get right out of here :D12:35
pupnik_and the best part wazd - those jerks actually have people worshipping them.   lol12:35
RST38hwazd: Although I guess that bringing them a shitload of paper showing that they have previously cleared you, with huge stamp marks, will do the trick12:35
RST38hThey may not believe the doctors, but they have to believe their own paperwork12:36
wazdI aleady shown em THEIR paperwork12:36
anvith3Pupnik_ how do i check the memory usage.12:36
wazdAnd they don't beleive it12:37
Stskeepswazd: try to hit another guy in the office when the irritating one isn't there? :P12:37
RST38hwazd: Ask them to call whoever this paperwork originated from12:37
RST38hStskeeps <-- talks sense12:37
wazdI just... meh12:39
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wazdthere's no other guy12:39
wazdNo sure if he's a guy, I think he's a fag12:40
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StskeepsRST38h: best way around bureaucracy is grabbing someone nicer12:44
RST38hwazd: " the bad sense of the word"12:44
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w00twazd: if i were you, i'd go postal12:46
w00tshoot some people, etc.12:46
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wazdDamn, I'm so tired12:50
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wazdThe better you are in your life, the worse shit you get in return12:54
mgedminreverse karma12:55
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Stskeepswazd: it's like with the n900. pain while you wait, excellent when you get it12:56
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wazdHope in the end I'll get my answers12:56
wazdPain while you wait, pain when you don't get it -that's my case :D12:57
w00t^ :P12:57
wazdOk, I'm outta hotspot and my phone's dead, so later guys12:58
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ccookeMorning, all13:08
mgedminN900 alarms have a certain flaw:13:09
mgedminwhen the sound sounds and the dialog pops up, if you ignore it for a few minutes, you're golden13:09
auenfthey wake you up?13:09
mgedminthe alarm won't be repeated in the 10-minute snooze period13:10
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mgedminwhen you finally wake up at 10 am, you'll see the alarm dialog on the n900 still displaying 7:21 or something like that, and patiently waiting for you to press either 'snooze' or 'stop'13:10
auenfgoto bed earlier?13:11
ShadowJKdoesn't help :)13:11
pupnik_N900 push:  Fire-ant garage alarm assistant for N900.13:12
pupnik_After 3rd snooze, garage opens and fire-ants come out13:12
pupnik_With fire-alarm sound effect to irritate them.13:12
pupnik_someday i will have an idea so far off the edge of 'bad' it will wrap around to 'good'13:13
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pupnik_i hope13:13
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RST38hWow! Bug #5343 has been fixed!13:23
povbotBug "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling13:23
mgedminit's been fixed for ages, I understand, but we won't see the fix for a week yet13:24
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_|Nix|_Hey! I'm really frustrated. I've just finished setting up scratchbox and the SDK using the installer scripts, and now on the FREMANTLE_X86 target I get "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set" for everything.13:26
_|Nix|_WTF?! Of course it's not set! It's X86!13:26
_|Nix|_I don't get it.13:26
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_|Nix|_This has been killing me all day!13:26
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Stskeepswhat OS?13:28
RST38hmgedmin: Not true. It has been fixed during WW4413:28
RST38hNix: You may want to set it explicitely13:29
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StskeepsRST38h: build hildon-desktop from gitorious and you have it13:30
Stskeepsi think13:30
RST38hSts" or upgrade to the latest version from the sdk repo?13:30
Stskeepsthey don't update sdk repo yet afaik13:31
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RST38hKhertan reported a few updates there13:31
_|Nix|_RST38h: Set it to what? It doesn't need CPU transparency. It's x86. That's what I find so frustrating.13:31
RST38hNix: I dunno muchabout sb1 but it probably has some neutral setting for that13:31
Stskeepsis it just me or is repository.* down? :P13:31
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StskeepsRST38h: maybe. but gitorious hildon-desktop building is not a bad bet either13:32
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_|Nix|_RST38h: I've tried that. can't find any.13:34
_|Nix|_This is really frustrating ...13:34
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RST38hno shit...13:34
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zaheer_when building a package13:43
zaheer_ fakeroot debian/rules clean13:44
zaheer_test -x debian/rules13:44
zaheer_make: *** [testdir] Error 113:44
zaheer_how do i debug that?13:44
zaheer_debian/rules exists13:44
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RST38hrun make with a verbose key?13:45
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zaheer_rules includes /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/gnome.mk13:47
zaheer_but that doesn't exist in my scratchbox13:47
zaheer_actually i lie13:48
zaheer_it does13:48
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zaheer_well i'm running dpkg-buildpackage not make13:49
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RST38hit runs make at some point13:50
zaheer_chmod a+x debian/rules i think is the key13:52
zaheer_awesome now it is building :)13:53
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* Stskeeps wonders how osgartoolkit works on maemo14:04
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* zaheer_ just sent gstreamer0.10-plugins-ffmpeg to the autobuilder :)14:06
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bilboed-pizaheer_, autobuilder ? :)14:09
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zaheer_bilboed-pi, maemo autobuilder14:09
zaheer_bilboed-pi, if it succeeds it'll be in extras-devel14:09
zaheer_should quieten down people that want vlc because it plays everything :)14:10
rangeStupid thread on tmo, though.14:10
zaheer_bilboed-pi, do you know if our default configure flags turn off optimisations on gst-ffmpeg?14:11
zaheer_it'd be nice to enable the arm neon ones for maemo if they do..14:11
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zaheer_range, yah people on both sides of the argument there a little over-enthusiastic :)14:12
bilboed-pizaheer_, it shouldn't, no14:12
zaheer_bilboed-pi, cool14:12
zaheer_i removed debian's thing for using system ffmpeg however14:12
bilboed-pizaheer_, but you might want to bump up to a more recent ffmpeg revision for neon optimisations14:12
zaheer_bilboed-pi, yah this build is just so far to check if i can actually modify a debian pkg and push into maemo, then i investigate the optimisation possibilities...i used stock 0.10.9 gst-ffmpeg for this14:14
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aolI need to compile qt to N900 any pointers where to start?14:17
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Andy80hi all14:19
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zaheer_aol, look at qt.gitorious.org14:19
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mihuI'm using latest Maemo SDK 5.0. I wanted to look at package hildon-thumbnail and noticed that it used libplayback. I tried "apt-get source libplayback-1-0" but it says "Unable to find a source package for libplayback". shows that it's in the "Nokia binaries" repo. There are no sources for this repo, or?14:20
Andy80is there any way to automatically add a counter of elements present in a wiki table? in particular it would be useful here:
Stskeepsmihu: correct, closed source14:20
mihuStskeeps: That's bad. I'm fiddling with the gstreamer installation on my N900 and things like gst-video-thumbnailerd always come into my way.14:21
Andy80isn't gstreamer already installed on N900?14:22
VDVsxAndy80, like 1- name , 2 -name ?14:23
mihuAndy80: It is. But I'm porting some GStreamer based application and play around with the system a little bit. On the lowlevel side.14:23
aolzaheer_: ok, so I just clone the repository, and then just compile?14:24
Stskeepsmihu: you are perfectly allowed to use libplayback-dev and libplayback though14:24
Stskeepsit's in the nokia-binaries repo14:24
zaheer_aol, you probably want to compile a branch for fremantle14:24
aolhm true14:24
Andy80Andy80: yes... just to have an automatic sum of people who add their name to the list14:25
mihuStskeeps: I wanted to have a look how libplayback interacts with gstreamer and if this is affected by the changes I do to my GStreamer installation.14:25
VDVsxAndy80, put # in each entry14:25
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mihuStskeeps: I don't plan to use it.14:26
infobotsomebody said qt was TrollTech's QT library, available at http://www.trolltech.com14:26
Stskeepsmihu: make a good argument for open sourcing it and submit a bug.. help us prioritise14:26
Andy80VDVsx: uhm... not working... it just write #14:26
VDVsxinfobot, Alzheimer again ? :P14:27
VDVsxAndy80, let me try :)14:27
mgedminmy tea!14:27
Andy80VDVsx: ok :)14:27
Andy80VDVsx: just do one, if you don't have time, I'll finish the rest :)14:28
* mgedmin thanks VDVsx for the reminder14:28
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VDVsxAndy80, wow, what a mixture of elements in that table :P not working due to the table proprieties, I guess14:32
zaheer_when is the maemo site/infra going to be upgraded again?14:33
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Andy80VDVsx: ok, it doesn't matter, just a tentative :)14:33
Andy80zaheer_: you mean midgard or servers?14:34
zaheer_webpages that query the builder take hours to load :)14:34
Andy80I did read something about "november/december" but I really don't have any confirmation14:34
Andy80anyway it's a known issue14:35
VDVsxAndy80, well, try to figure out comparing to the summit agenda, there's a example the LT's row ;)14:35
zaheer_for anyone in london without an N900: NokiaFlagshipUK Pssst.. Have you heard? We've popped a few N900's under the counter at the Flagship Store. Come & have a play
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Stskeepsw00t: ^14:37
aolhm how do I now compile the FREMANTLE branch of qt14:37
aolI'm able to start compiling with ./configure but I dont want to continue unless I'm sure I'm getting what I want first :)14:38
RST38hWhere do I get Maemo5 themes at the moment?14:38
aolah, thanks!14:39
lcukzaheer_, facelink comes up blank!14:39
lcukfacebook link rather14:39
lcukmornin lardman14:40
VDVsxaol, in case you need more help, the folks in #qt-maemo are willing to help you, ehehhe14:40
lardmanwhat's the standard way to release a debian package from an SVN repo? Create a tag/branch with the correct dir name and package that? or extract the head and do the packaging manually outside the tree? etc.?14:40
aolVDVsx: or not ? :)14:41
mgedminbtw when microb fails to load a page due to connectivty issues, its menu has no 'reload' button and I have tap the address bar, slide out the kbd, and press enter14:41
VDVsxaol, nah ;)14:41
zaheer_lcuk, ouch let me fix it14:42
* w00t looks14:42
lcukwhich store is it? the regent street one?14:42
lcukhey w00t14:42
w00tsays so, yes14:43
* w00t wonders if he can arrange to get to london tomorrow.14:43
zaheer_lcuk, yep regent street one14:44
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zaheer_is the link it expands to14:44
VDVsxzaheer_, is that the one near to the apple store ? :)14:44
zaheer_VDVsx, yep14:45
zaheer_also lucasr mentioned lhr store has one in store too14:45
zaheer_lhr t5 that is14:45
zaheer_for anyone travelling out of lhr t514:45
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lcuklardman, what do you mean14:47
lcukthe packaging is normally just a debian folder isnt it14:47
RST38h"Why You Should Think Twice Before Dating An iPhone User" (C)Gizmodo14:47
lardmanthe dir needs to have the right name afaik, e.g. mbarcode-0.0.114:47
lcukzaheer_, have you also shoved a couple of Rihannas under the desk too?14:48
zaheer_lcuk, no did i paste wrong link again? :)14:49
lcuklardman, dpkg-buildpackage gives the name as a warning, what do you mean by release tho, actually making a garage release directly from it or just for you to build package with locally14:49
lcuklol zaheer_ no14:49
lcukbut make sure Rihanna gets to play too14:49
zaheer_disclaimer: i don't work for nokia or any of their retail stores :P14:49
VDVsxlcuk, so, there's also a Nokia flagship store in Manchester ? :P14:49
w00tlcuk: I was just managing to totally misinterpret that as "make sure Rihanna gets played with too"14:50
lardmanlcuk: Garage release/extras-devel14:50
w00tyou can imagine the resulting confusion.14:50
RST38hYahoooooo! Bug #6039 has been fixed in Git!14:50
povbotBug Hanging application menu requires system reboot14:50
lcukVDVsx, yes i know!14:51
zaheer_RST38h, yes i look forward to the release so i can get rid of the most annoying bug on my n90014:51
VDVsxlcuk, there's ? wow14:51
* lardman is hopeful that the tap/type through the app just after you open it will be fixed soon too14:51
* lcuk cant wait for barcamp manchester this weekend14:51
RST38hVDVsx: If we are lucky, they may fix the PA bug! =)14:51
lardmanwhat's barcamp?14:52
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mgedminirritation #17: tap a text field, then slide open keyboard --> on screen you see the vkb showing up then disappearing14:52
lcukthere are a couple of tickets available if people wanna come14:52
lcukan unconference14:52
RST38hmgedmin: Ah don't be a wikipedian14:52
mgedminthe lag makes it an irritation14:52
VDVsxRST38h, seems that they are in bugfixing mode now :)14:52
lcukattendee assigned couple of days of random talks14:52
lardmanlcuk: does it have a topic?14:52
RST38hmgedmin: Let them fix the language switch on the physical keyboard first14:53
lcukusers make the topic14:53
mgedminI wish I had a language I could switch to ...14:53
lcukpeople from different backgrounds choose topics14:53
lcukput em on a big wall and talk about stuff14:53
RST38hVDVsx: Have been for more than a week judging from the number of int-* bugs IDs attached to public trackers14:53
lardmanlcuk: so I could head over and chat to people about the finer details of finite difference equation modelling using CUDA?14:53
lcuksome very different ones when i went to london14:53
lcukif you wanted yeah14:53
lcukand join in with other things14:53
lardmanbut would there be anyone who knows about it was what I'm asking...14:54
RST38hmgedmin: Well, if Lithuanian fails you, you can always default to Russian14:54
* RST38h smiles sadistically =)14:54
lardmanso there is a general topic - Linux programming, etc14:54
lcukat the london one, someone spoke about using bbc micro as a church organ!14:54
lardmanoh right14:54
lcuktech people mostly14:54
RST38hmgedmin: Seriously though, no specific Lithuanian keyboard layout?14:54
lardmanbut computer related then?14:54
mgedminRST38h, worse: in older OSes I could at least enter ąčęėįšųūž with the vkb;in Maemo 5 there's no way at all to input them14:55
mgedminalso, they removed support for windows-1257, which means I cannot read 25% of my email14:55
zaheer_gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg 0.10.9-1 OK14:55
lardmanah yes, I remember reading that thread now14:55
lcukat the IBM one, yeah it was, i dunno about this one14:55
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lcukcome on up for the day14:55
lardmanno time I'm afraid14:56
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RST38hmgedmin: afaik keyboard layouts can be easily added, there is a sample package in extras too14:56
mgedminRST38h, woot!14:56
mgedminbut I don't believe you :)14:56
derfI'd rather have a Compose key.14:56
mgedminI think timeless discovered that the names of the layouts are hardcoded in some .so file14:56
RST38hderf: I guess the top left key can be considered a compose key.14:56
RST38hderf: And I think there is even a bug for that :)14:56
mgedminit actually is Multi_key in the xkb file14:57
RST38hmgedmin: Oh.14:57
* timeless_mbp looks up14:57
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timeless_mbpthe names are definitely hardcoded in a .so file14:57
* RST38h considers the best way to hack in the win1257 support14:58
timeless_mbpi didn't check the sources to see if it has extensibility points14:58
zaheer_ukeyboard added arabic layout14:58
timeless_mbpzaheer_: as a soft layout or hard layout?14:58
RST38hmgedmin: You know, the easiest way would probably be by making the mail server convert it into utf814:58
timeless_mbpwe're talking about hard14:58
timeless_mbpand if mgedmin wasn't clear about that, i'm sorry14:58
zaheer_i'll go back to sleep :)14:58
timeless_mbpit's 5am here14:59
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mgedminI want three things actually: hw keyboard layout for lt, dead keys for accents used in lithuanian in the fn+ctrl popup, and vkb layout for the fullscreen vkb15:01
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serenityis there a wikipage about writing widgets?15:01
RST38hvkb layout should be doable right away15:01
RST38hA moment, let me check the package name15:02
mgedminshame that I don't actually like the vkb...15:02
RST38hWell, something is better than nothing15:02
RST38hThe best vkb would be a semitransparent one15:03
serenityah, thanks VDVsx15:03
RST38hBut not gonna happen any time soon15:03
mgedminany Conboy developers ever played with the vkb?  it's not pretty15:03
mgedminbullets interfere in interesting ways15:03
RST38hmgedmin: I am getting impression that win1257 can be accommodate by a locale15:04
mgedminRST38h, iconv doesn't support it15:05
mgedminwhich means modest cannot display emails using it15:05
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mgedminand if the emails in question use base64, all I see is [?] instead of the body15:05
RST38hOk, let us check the kbd first...15:05
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RST38hmgedmin: and
RST38hmgedmin: Notice that it covers BOTH virtual and physical keyboards.15:06
timeless_mbpRST38h: does it actually result in an extra row in the hg keyboard picker?15:07
RST38hNow, gotta find how charmaps are added, can't believe iconv is not extendable15:07
mgedminI always knew that if I was lazy, somebody else would solve my problems15:07
timeless_mbpiconv mostly sucks15:07
timeless_mbpbut in some cases it's extensible15:07
mgedminthere was once more-gconv-modules which kinda used to extend iconv, if you set one environment variable15:07
timeless_mbpoften by just building w/ more modules and shipping the missing ones15:07
mgedminit doesn't appear to work on maemo 515:07
mgedminwhat would be needed: more .so files in /usr/lib/gconv/, and some modification of /usr/lib/gconv/gconv-modules15:08
RST38hlibiconv 1.9 supports win125715:08
mgedminhey, why can't I ssh to my n900 any more?15:09
timeless_mbpdid its ip change? :)15:09
mgedmindunno, I use mdns15:10
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mgedminRST38h, what's libiconv?15:11
RST38hmgedmin: You know, given the list of encodings supported by iconv 2.5, you can probably file a bug for 1257 support15:11
RST38hA library iconv is based on15:11
mgedminiconv is part of libc15:11
RST38hmgedmin: Not on FreeBSD :)15:11
mgedminwell, gconv is the implementation of iconv, shipped as part of glibc, and used in all linux distros, including maemo15:11
mgedminit supports cp1252 and a bazillion other encodings15:12
mgedminit's just disabled in maemo 5 for some reason15:12
mgedminI've already filed a bug, a few weeks ago15:12
timeless_mbpthe reason we disable stuff15:12
RST38hmgedmin: There is no reason not to resolve it15:12
timeless_mbpis because it eats space15:12
timeless_mbpand no one can defend shipping it15:12
mgedminbug 530315:12
povbotBug Enable cp1257 support in iconv15:12
RST38hmgedmin: 1251-1254 are al supported why not 1257?15:12
timeless_mbpthe browser team looked at iconv, found the impl on maemo incredibly insufficient, and went back to nice and safe uconv15:13
timeless_mbp(gecko's converter)15:13
mgedmintimeless_mbp, ooh, I'm intrigued15:13
timeless_mbpremember that code page conversions are basically incredibly huge wastes of space15:13
mgedmincan you tell us more?15:13
timeless_mbpthey're basically data blobs15:13
timeless_mbpand if the target market didn't seem to have any need for it15:13
RST38h1257 is hardly a huge waste of space, it covers 127 characters15:14
timeless_mbpthen it's very hard to justify retaining big blobs that waste space15:14
mgedminRST38h, is 12K on my laptop15:14
timeless_mbpRST38h: historically, chinese and friends are teh big offenders15:14
timeless_mbpbut 127c they may be, if they cost 12k, that's not 1k15:14
RST38hFor example, that glibc-based iconv supports a bunch of OSF* conversions that nobody has heard about probably since DEC times15:14
timeless_mbpand it probably doesn't compress well15:14
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timeless_mbp"that" == ?15:15
w00tit doesn't really matter how much it is, if there's very little to no use case for it, then it makes sense to trim it and stick something more desired there in the space left15:15
timeless_mbpanyway, w00t understands the reason15:15
timeless_mbpagain, i don't care15:15
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timeless_mbpthe browser team ran into this problem and worked around it15:16
timeless_mbpplus we didn't want to have to fight to maintain it15:16
mgedminah, so the problem is lack of coverage15:16
mgedminand not other implementation details15:16
RST38hw00t: ~7 million people15:16
timeless_mbpdepends on who and what15:16
mgedminwhen you mentioned iconv was incredibly insufficient, I assumed dunno, algorithmic reasons15:16
timeless_mbpRST38h: in a world with what, 5 trillion people?15:16
mgedminlack of detection, error recovery, things like that15:16
mgedmindunno why I assumed that15:16
RST38hiconv -l shows support for some encodings that are not even used by 7 million people15:17
timeless_mbpthe question is whether those 7 million people are likely to want to buy our product15:17
timeless_mbpif they are, then you have a much better business case15:17
timeless_mbpif they aren't, then you don't15:17
timeless_mbpit's very simple15:17
timeless_mbpand if you think there are space savings to be had, file a distinct bug for a single converter and explain why no one we currently or are likely to try to sell to would care if it was removed15:18
timeless_mbp(don't file too many at a time, but if you get one win, file another)15:18
RST38hHow many of potential Nokia customers are going to use OSF00010001 encoding?15:18
RST38hWhat about OSF00010002 encoding?15:19
RST38hThese are all supported though15:19
mgedminnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! the app-menu bug strikes again15:19
mgedminI cannot play with ukbdcreator15:19
RST38hHa ha ha ha ha15:19
timeless_mbpmgedmin: eh?15:19
RST38hyou can invoke it from the command line15:19
timeless_mbpwhich bug is this?15:20
timeless_mbp( url)15:20
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* timeless_mbp sighs15:21
mgedminbug 6039, wasn't it?15:21
povbotBug Hanging application menu requires system reboot15:21
timeless_mbposf00010001 is not googlable15:21
mgedminno, that's not it15:22
mgedminbug 571315:22
povbotBug Cannot scroll application menu15:22
mgedminwhich is a dupe of bug 534315:23
povbotBug "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling15:23
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mgedminbtw, RST38h, my comment about 5343 being fixed "ages ago" was prompted by this comment:
povbotBug 5343: "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling15:23
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RST38hmgedmin: 10-13 is something like WW4315:25
timeless_mbpandre__: btw15:25
timeless_mbpyour explanation of week numbers is probably dangerous15:25
timeless_mbpthere's a form of branching going on15:25
RST38hwhich correlates with WW44 date given later in comments15:25
timeless_mbpwhich in theory means that perhaps you're explanation won't be right :(15:26
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andre__timeless_mbp, yeah. and i wonder if i'm allowed to state something about potential branchings in public :-/15:26
andre__but that should be only a problem for one or two weeks afaik15:26
RST38htoo late, andre15:26
* timeless_mbp ponders15:26
timeless_mbpRST38h: no, the fault is mine, not his15:27
timeless_mbphe didn't state it15:27
RST38hand we know about branchings anyway, Intel works similarly15:27
timeless_mbpi think the following are known:15:27
timeless_mbp1. the shipping version doesn't exist15:27
timeless_mbp(vaguely obvious, otherwise, we'd have shipped)15:27
andre__timeless_mbp, i also thought about this issue, but so far i only see a very small problem currently15:27
timeless_mbp2. we're working on a service release15:27
timeless_mbplogical conclusion: someone is somehow branching15:28
JaffaAnd someone's working on Harmattan ;-)15:28
* timeless_mbp wonders when that leaked15:28
RST38hJaffa: Not until we start seeing FIXED-IN-HARMATTAN resolutions...15:29
StskeepsRST38h: we did already afaik15:29
RST38hthank Murtazin15:29
mgedminwell, all that talk about harmattan during the summit kinda implied people were already working on it rather than just talking about it15:29
mgedminalthough I assumed it only applied to qt15:29
mgedmindownside of launching gui apps over ssh: when the connection times out, the app is killed15:30
Stskeepsgui.. then you need NX15:30
lardmanor add an &15:31
RST38hLow-Energy Laser Etching May Replace Fruit Labels15:31
RST38hTatoos next15:31
rangeRST38h: The "Modest IDLE support broken" bug has a "might get a fix in harmattan but nobody knows" :)15:31
mgedminukbdcreator is not exactly intuitive15:32
mgedminso, I've got a large text box, what do I type in it?15:32
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mgedminloading a default layout would be nicer15:32
Jaffamgedmin: Indeed, random talk at summit about Harmattan plans implied some development was happening, presumably in some components which arleady exist15:32
RST38hrange: What is modest idle? =)15:33
timeless_mbprange: that's amusing15:33
timeless_mbpRST38h: vaporware15:33
RST38hJaffa: It is a non-secret really. Working on two evolutionary steps of the system at the time is a standard practice15:33
rangeRST38h: IDLE support in IMAP - something like push mail done correctly :)15:33
rangetimeless_mbp: Well, errm.15:34
timeless_mbprange: fwiw...15:34
timeless_mbpIDLE is apparently mostly useless15:34
RST38hJaffa: Would be more surprised if they WERE NOT working on Harmattan15:34
timeless_mbpi think most people want NOTIFY instead15:34
timeless_mbpi know that IDLE would be a disaster for me15:34
timeless_mbprange: out of curiosity, how many folders does your imap account have?15:35
mgedminmine has less than two hundred15:35
RST38hJaffa: What would be really nice to know though is how many Fremantle packages are branched for Harmattan and how many are being taken from the Fremantle main trunk15:35
rangetimeless_mbp: Yeah, but that is DRAFT mostly.15:35
RST38hThe more of them are branched => the less support we are gonna get for Fremantle15:35
timeless_mbpmgedmin: less than 200 *folders*15:36
derfI have a mere 17.15:36
rangetimeless_mbp: Too many :)15:36
range20? 30?15:36
timeless_mbpwell golly gee, you definitely do *not* want IDLE15:36
derfOnly 5 of which can receive mail.15:36
derfWell, mail that I'd want to read.15:36
timeless_mbpderf: well that's great15:36
mgedmin20 of which receive incoming mail15:36
derfAnd yes, I know IDLE is mostly useless.15:36
timeless_mbpyou planning to write a ui to let a normal user explain to modest which folders are "interesting"?15:37
mgedminand I don't even know what IDLE is15:37
timeless_mbpcan you imagine our ui team trying to do that?15:37
derftimeless_mbp: I can do it in other mail programs.15:37
derfBut no, I'm not ever planning to touch modest.15:37
RST38hIt is a pretty easy ui though15:37
timeless_mbpderf: oh sure15:37
timeless_mbpRST38h: how would you do it?15:37
RST38hUnless you want to comply with Maemo5 Stule Guide which limits you in all kinds of ways15:37
timeless_mbpwell, we're talking about fremantle ui designers15:38
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mgedminhey, multi-selection kinetic lists exist in maemo 515:38
RST38hShow attractive list of folders and ask the user to arrange them15:38
timeless_mbpso i think you kinda have to take that as a given15:38
mgedminand this is exactly what's needed for, e.g. subscribing/unsubscribing to folders15:38
derfRST38h: I like checkboxes next to them.15:38
RST38hIf it is a bisection of interesting-vs-uninteresting, I would divide the screen in two halves, etc15:38
timeless_mbpRST38h: "arrange" is definitely not supported by maemo5 :)15:38
RST38hPutting little stars on interesting folders will also work15:38
derfRST38h: But things have parent/child relationships.15:38
mgedmintrees can be flattened15:38
timeless_mbpderf: tell me about it15:39
mgedminmodest already does that to my folders15:39
RST38hderf: Does not matter for this particular activity15:39
timeless_mbpi have at least two folders named "bugzilla"15:39
derfRST38h: Yes, it does.15:39
timeless_mbpone of which is useless15:39
timeless_mbpone of which is important15:39
derfFor the reason timeless_mbp just elucidated.15:39
RST38hderf: You can show a tree and ask the user to star interesting folders15:39
derfRST38h: Right. That was what I was suggesting.15:39
derfAnd is, in fact, how other programs do it.15:39
RST38hderf: The UI is not really a problem15:39
derfI didn't claim it was.15:40
timeless_mbpRST38h: can you try explaining that in 4-6 words composing a title or English sentence?15:40
timeless_mbp"star interesting folders" doesn't cut it15:40
RST38hderf: It is artifical lmitations enforced by Maemo5 UI people that are problem15:40
timeless_mbpthe maemo5 ui can definitely support it15:40
timeless_mbpbut coming up w/ decent strings is ... definitely a challenge15:40
RST38hAbility To Mark Watched Folders15:40
RST38hHere, Have it.15:40
timeless_mbpand given that they've failed for much simpler strings...15:40
timeless_mbpif "watched" isn't a technical term15:41
derf"Mark folders to check for new mail"15:41
RST38hIt is a term people understand15:41
timeless_mbpthen you've just written something which doesn't mean anything15:41
derfIt's 7 words, but what do you want.15:41
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timeless_mbpderf: 6 max ;-)15:41
timeless_mbpyou have two things to deal w/15:41
timeless_mbp1. a button in a menu15:41
timeless_mbpmax ~3 words15:41
timeless_mbp2. a title line in a "view"15:41
derf"Folder subscriptions"15:41
timeless_mbpthat implies i can only see folders for which idle is enabled15:42
timeless_mbpsomeone said 5 / 17 folders get new interesting mail15:42
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timeless_mbpwould that someone never want to read mail from the other 12?15:42
wjtNew mail subscriptions15:42
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timeless_mbpwjt: "maybe"15:43
tigerta friend had a good folder structure15:43
tigertvery well organized set of folder15:43
tigertand one which had the name "Mail I actually read"15:43
timeless_mbptigert: my folder structure suffers15:43
timeless_mbpmodest sorts alphabetically15:43
timeless_mbpand i have a folder named "archive"15:43
timeless_mbpso the folders i actually need to read are nowhere near inbox15:43
mgedminmy incoming mail is in INBOX and in a bunch of folders named IN.something15:43
tigertso name them like we used to do with MacOS9 apple menu?15:43
rangeWell, a pull every 10 minutes doesn't really make it better.15:43
timeless_mbpbecause my archive tree is huge15:43
mgedminwhich means I scroll halfway through the list to see them15:44
tigert" Foobar", "  Foobar" etc15:44
rangeAs long as I can turn off "new mail has arrived!"15:44
timeless_mbptigert: 1, 2, 3?15:44
tigertor if that doesnt work, 1Foobar 2Blah 3Zoo15:44
tigertugly but works15:44
* timeless_mbp nods15:44
timeless_mbppersonally, i want imap subscription management15:44
timeless_mbpbut i'm using MfE not imap15:44
tigertyou can use imap too afaik?15:44
tigertexchange has imap15:44
timeless_mbpis our imap public/15:45
tigerthavent tried15:45
* timeless_mbp can't remember15:45
tigertour exchange is, so...15:45
timeless_mbpiirc it was for about a week15:45
timeless_mbpand then went back to not being15:45
tigertuse vpn?15:45
* timeless_mbp dresses up a dead body15:46
* timeless_mbp shoves it toward tigert 15:46
timeless_mbpit's not like imap actually has advantages in Modest over MfE15:46
timeless_mbpc.f. -IDLE -NOTIFY +BANDWIDTH15:47
timeless_mbptelnet somewhere imap4-ssl15:47
rangetimeless_mbp: Ummm. Yes. I "only" have an IMAP server.15:47
timeless_mbpTrying somewhere...15:47
timeless_mbptelnet: connect to address somewhere: Operation timed out15:47
timeless_mbptelnet: Unable to connect to remote host15:47
timeless_mbprange: sorry, side discussion about a hypothetical infrastructure for a hypothetical employer15:48
timeless_mbpnote that hypothetically non MS servers can implement MfE support15:48
timeless_mbphypothetically there might even be a major vendor which does15:48
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* range takes out his knive to drill holes into his shinbone.15:49
rangeThat sounds like more fn.15:49
timeless_mbpsuch a hypothetical server might not work with a released version of modest15:49
timeless_mbpbut hypothetically that could be fixed15:49
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timeless_mbpdon't file a bug about that btw :)15:50
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mgedminfnu sounds like the predecessor of gnu15:50
rangefnu is not gnu is not unix?15:50
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wazdbye-bye barcelona :(16:01
Anvith3i'm running low on internal memory on my n810. i've uninstalled all unwanted apps. how can i free up more memory. where are the temp files located?16:01
Stskeepswazd: :(16:01
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zaheer_wazd, ?16:02
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Macerthat's it16:09
Macertouchbook is fail :)16:09
Macergoing to try to get android on it and if i can't i'll sell it for half the price haha16:09
Stskeepswhy is it fail?16:09
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MacerStskeeps: i wouldn't even know where to begin16:11
MacerI think that it's neither software, nor hardware (in the sense of a design16:11
Macererror). Maybe a faulty connection somewhere. I will continue investigating.16:11
Macerthat is the last bug reply i got for it randomly blanking16:11
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Macerit just needs a good os for it but there really isn't anything out there that i can put on it that is far enough developed to work properly16:12
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MacerStskeeps: i am going to sell it. want to buy it for $250? you might find something good to do with it16:13
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Macerbut yeah. for me. the touchbook is a total piece of shit :)16:14
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Anvith3i'm running low on internal memory on my n810. i've uninstalled all unwanted apps. how can i free up more memory. where are the temp files located?16:15
Anvith3sorry about double post16:15
RST38hMacer: He will put Mer on it =)16:15
RST38hAnvith: What is internal memory? / partition?16:16
Anvith3my mistake i meant phone memory16:16
MacerRST38h: i wouldn't care what he did with it. i am personally about to run it over with my car16:16
Anvith3the 250 mb16:16
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Macerright now i am going to write a flame article on http://tech.rancorous.net16:17
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TermanaMacer - I think its better to run it over with your car than give it away, imo16:19
wazdMacer: moblin 2.1?16:19
RST38hMacer: Come on, at the very least it makes a nice coffee tablet decoration16:20
TermanaDon't forget to take a video16:20
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anvith3_N810RST38h: how do i do it?16:20
RST38hAnvith: Uninstall some applications16:20
RST38hAnvith: Remove unused locales16:21
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RST38hAnvith: Simply reboot, to let the OS garbage collect16:21
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TermanaAnvith - Remember to do the madatory "bash your head against a wall". The computing gods aren't ever happy, and will never give you results unless you cause yourself pain in the process.16:25
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JamieBennettHow do you get the IMEI number from the N900? Want to put it on my insurance but it *#06# doesn't seem to work16:26
TermanaJamieBennett: Try looking under that battery16:26
SpeedEvilIs it perhaps writen under the battery?16:26
zaheer_JamieBennett, it is in about in settings16:26
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SpeedEvilThough *#... not working is probably a bug16:26
JamieBennettah, so Nokia are diverging from the standard then? or not supported yet?16:26
zaheer_JamieBennett, plus the battery thing everyone else said :)16:27
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zaheer_but yah i just checked, it is definitely in About product in the settings app16:27
JamieBennettzaheer_ wins for easy of finding out, thanks16:27
JamieBennettwow, spelling problems today :)16:28
zaheer_JamieBennett, it's ok, i misspelt my nick also16:28
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* JamieBennett goes back to device tree research16:29
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VDVsxROTFL -> (watch till the end :P)16:30
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pupnik_i like cork soled sandals because i can make little farting noises with my feet when i'm waiting in line16:34
JamieBennettBug submitted. I really should stop moaning and file more bugs but I fear that I have a lot of them for the n900 :)16:35
pupnik_for when n810 is not handy16:35
RST38hjavis: Rejoice, they have fixed the menu hangup bug!16:35
javispedrowe'll see how :)16:36
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RST38hBTW, anyone have encountered a bug where ENTER key in XTerm suddenly stops working?16:36
Stskeepsanyone with a 770, os2006 around and 'file' installed?16:36
StskeepsRST38h: yeah, probably hildon input method screwing up16:36
* RST38h has been hit with it twice over the last two days16:36
Stskeepsuse ctrl-m16:36 havew got a point16:37
Stskeeps(we're back to the 70s)16:37
RST38hShould I file it though?16:37
Mekenter always stops working after I detach screen in xterm for me....16:37
Mek(screen in ssh in xterm that is)16:37
RST38hAnyone got bug id for it?16:37
anvith3_N810ok thanks. @termana : ah well what can i say.16:37
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wazdI just caught a design  revelation16:38
Stskeepsarmy clothes for teletubbies?16:39
wazdIf you want to make flush screen in the phone - don't make front case black - make it silvery dark grey, same as the screen16:40
RST38hwazd: sure you can get the color right though?16:40
RST38hBecause if it is even a little bit off, this makes no sense to do16:40
wazdRST38h: I bet it's possible)16:40
wazdRST38h: with all that zillion of different materials16:41
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RST38hwazd: it may be difficult to predict exact lcd color, when it is off16:41
RST38heven two batches of the same lcd model may have somewhat different colors16:41
wazdfor me they are really the same :D16:41
RST38hcollect some of your gadgets and compare =)16:42
StskeepsMacer: the issue sounds like a kernel issue though, especially that people were able to have it continue working by continously feeding the backlight setting16:42
wazdRST38h: looking at SE t630 and n800 now - really the same16:42
wazdRST38h: like exactly16:43
VDVsxjavispedro, ping16:43
javispedroVDVsx: pong16:43
wazdRST38h: the only difference is that you can see pixel grid on 630 :)16:43
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VDVsxjavispedro, do you know if sbox still have issues with OGL ?16:43
wazdRST38h: I'm sure next iPhone will use that idea :)16:44
javispedroVDVsx: i am at this very moment still trying to understand the clutter ogl intricacies. so yes, the final sdk still has issues with OGL.16:44
RST38hwazd: Or just make the inactive screen totally black =)16:44
wazdRST38h: that's kinda impossible/expensive16:44
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javispedroVDVsx: even though may I ask to elaborate the question? from the top of my head there's the "uses software rendering no mather what" and the "orangeness" issues.16:45
wazdRST38h: OLED - yes16:45
RST38hwazd: polarized glass or one-way mirror16:45
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RST38hwazd: you lose some brightness of course, but it has been done before, even with a third-party film16:45
RST38hwazd: I have seen iPhone screen protector that becomes a mirror when the iPhone screen is off16:46
javispedroVDVsx: and I have somewhat working fixes for both16:46
wazdRST38h: not sure, never seen it for myself16:46
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wazdRST38h: and assumed that it's too expensive to polarize screen16:46
VDVsxjavispedro, it runs fast ? and the sbox packages are still diff from the device ones ?16:46
wazdRST38h: ah, yep, saw that too16:46
javispedroVDVsx: with VMGL it runs fast indeed. sdk packages are so old that now the autobuilder gets them from "in-device packages repo" instead of sdk16:47
wazdRST38h: but as you can see - black border still around16:47
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javispedroVDVsx: want to try? if you have debian lenny it should be easy (well, patch and recompile xserver-xephyr...)16:49
RST38hwazd: Yea16:50
RST38hMek: Still here?16:50
VDVsxjavispedro, I've ubuntu ;)16:50
VDVsxjavispedro, but don't have the last sbox version16:50
wazdRST38h: you can make it disappear at some angles but my solution will work better :)16:50
RST38hMek: Please, vot/comment on this bug report:
povbotBug 6045: ENTER key stops working in XTerm16:50
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zaheermVDVsx, that video was too funny!16:51
* javispedro saw it already :)16:52
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Stskeepswell, google is getting a shitload of bad press atm16:54
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RST38hSts: Smear campaign! =)16:54
javispedroEven though this common belief that "Cyogen did a better rom in his spare time than the Google team in months" is common, and I dislike it16:55
Stskeepsall things considered, we do have a -fairly- good relationship with nokia :P16:55
* javispedro saw it loooots of times in the PalmOS sphere16:55
Macerjavispedro: :)16:55
Macercyanogen is awesome16:55
lcukmgedmin, povbot is awesome! :D16:56
SpeedEvilWhat are the things the mods do that the stock doesnT?16:56
MacerSpeedEvil: for oen thing their updates are quicker16:57
Macerthey have dev tools and certain mods that are nice to have16:57
Macertheme support is nice too :)16:57
* lcuk hopes barcamp has good food this weekend16:57
javispedroMacer: too bad the TB sucks so much, I was considering it.16:58
Macerjavispedro: it is a total piece of shit :)16:58
RST38hlcuk: What is BarCamp anyway? How did it start? Th description at Maemo Planet sounds delicious16:58
lcukthe touchbook is made of awesome tho16:58
Maceri guess it would be good for people who are hardcore developers16:58
Stskeepsgod, i love that ending of the movie16:58
Macerbut as it stands the thing is a total piece of crap :)16:58
javispedroStskeeps: the real one or the one with N900 references? :)16:58
lcukRST38h, planet or talk16:58
lcuki cant get planet up atm16:58
RST38hlcuk: no longer remember, the one with pictures16:59
Maceryou would be best to save your money and get a beagleboard or an n90016:59
* VDVsx just found out that he has a friend studying in Barcelona :)16:59
Macersave the $400 and you are 2/3 to an n900 :)16:59
javispedroMacer: beagleboard sucks batteries too16:59
Stskeepsjavispedro: both but the n900 reference got me16:59
javispedroVDVsx: studying what? :)16:59
Macerjavispedro: unless a REAL company picks up a GOOD arm based netbook. i think an atom is the best route16:59
lcuklol, its an unconference full of people from tech who come together and discuss topics on the day they arrive16:59
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lcukvery very cool idea :) there were people from all areas last time17:00
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lcukand we took part in some really nifty presentations and bofs17:00
VDVsxjavispedro, Msc, think is CS, let me ask, He contact me asking if I'll be there for the maemo hackfest ;)17:00
javispedroah, good.17:02
VDVsxjavispedro, your univ as well ?17:02
* VDVsx now hopes to be invited ;)17:03
javispedroVDVsx: nope, I'm from barcelona tech (as most of those who posted in the thread so far)17:03
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VDVsxjavispedro, :)17:04
javispedro(barcelona tech is not the real name but sounds cool either way :) )17:04
VDVsxFIB isn't it ?17:05
* RST38h wonders if the author meant some sex toy by "octopus"17:08
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RST38hBecause the live octopus somehow feels less relevant to the described situation17:09
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* javispedro believes someone was triying to reuse problems from another book by just changing the text but not the numbers17:10
javispedroafter "reinventing" problems for a few hours I'm sure a octopus in a physics problem sounds reasonable17:10
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Macerjavispedro: haha17:12
Macerjavispedro: i was wondering if there was any type of centrifugal force created by the puck hitting the octopus17:12
Stskeepsjavispedro: keyboard and ts part?17:12
fiferboyThrowing octipii onto the ice is actually common in one NHL city - I think Detroit17:13
StskeepsMacer: TB17:13
MacerStskeeps: yeah. that's short for touchbullshit17:13
Stskeepsshipping included in 250 USD? ;)17:14
javispedrooctopuses iirc17:14
fiferboyoctopuses, octopi, octopodes, aparently17:15
MacerStskeeps: hm. i am trying to remember how much the n800 was to ship to you17:15
javispedrowasn't there a entire domain dedicated to the "virii" issue ;)17:15
StskeepsMacer: a TB is probably a lot heavier :P17:15
javispedrowouldn't anyone know when GL_UNSIGNED_SHORT_5_6_5 was introducen in desktop opengl?17:16
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Macerhonestly. if it is less than $50 to ship. then sure. screw it17:16
Macerthis thing is worthless to me :)17:17
Macerlet me check at the usps and i will tell you by saturday17:17
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Macerat least the 200 will help me get my n900 :).. i am hating the day i ever thought about buying this touchbook17:18
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Macerbut if you really want it .. let me know so i don't go wait in line for nothing :)17:19
Maceri accept paypal haha17:19
ShadowJKMacer: discovered that it's not as comfortable for couch/bed surfing? :-)17:19
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MacerShadowJK: discovered that it's not comfortable while ripping my hair out17:21
Macerit's a worthless piece of shit :)17:22
Macertaht's what i get for buying something designed by the french17:22
MacerStskeeps would have a lot more "fun" with it than i could17:23
ShadowJKSoftware unusable?17:23
Macertaht... hardware seems flaky too... let me find the bug....17:23
povbotBug 39: libosso docs: remove contact info17:24
Macerread the last entry :)17:24
Macerthat is from the "inventor" of the tb17:24
Macer"Not hardware or software" kind of made me laugh17:24
Macerthere are gremlins or french cockroaches in my TB i suppose17:24
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Macerwow. i think i overpaid all my credit cards17:26
StskeepsMacer: i'm pondering if there's some bad readings on whatever controls backlight17:26
MacerStskeeps: i am pondering throwing the thing off a tall buiilding17:26
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MacerStskeeps: i had a theory that it may be some type of obscure backlight power management that keeps detecting the tablet battery as being empty17:27
Macersince the sensor for the tablet battery doesn't seem to function properly17:27
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Stskeepswhat did other people say that kept it from happening?17:28
javispedrook, 5_6_5 is available from GL 1.2 onwards17:28
MacerStskeeps: i think they found a small led flashlight17:28
Macerand duct taped it inside17:28
javispedroso why did someone believe they needed packed_pixels ext for it? Hmpf.17:28
Maceri thought gregoire put the broken kernel in the bug to download :)17:29
Macers/thought/thought it was awesome when17:29
StskeepsMacer: i do run a risk of you killing me if i discover it's some simple issue though17:30
MacerStskeeps: honestly i could care less. overall i hate the thing ;) even if the backlight worked17:30
Maceri'd rahter have a more developed device17:30
Macerlike an n900. even when an n900 comes out it wouldn't have NEARLY the amount of problems the tb has17:31
* Stskeeps checks the dollar exchange rate17:31
Macerwhat do they use in poland?17:31
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Macerpoland isnt eu?17:31
rangeMacer: It is, but it isn't Euro-Zone (as in currency) yet.17:32
rangeNot all countries in the EU have the EUR:17:32
Macertoo poor huh? rest of the richer countries don't want them to drag down the currency rate? :)17:33
Stskeepsvoted not to get it17:33
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Stskeepsin case of denmark at least17:33
Macerwow really? odd17:33
lcukMacer, you raved about touchbook for ages17:33
lcukwhat changed? did some pretty laptop flutter her usb ports at you?17:34
* Moo___ got n900 <217:34
Moo___<3 even17:34
ShadowJKSweden and denmark held referendum and the people said no17:34
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rangeMacer: UK is one of the oldest EU countries and rather watches their pound going down than going EUR :)17:34
Macerlcuk: i raved about it when i was waiting on the 4 month late preorder17:34
Macerthen got it and was totally disappointed17:34
ShadowJKUK artificially kept their economy from not qualifying for euro :)17:34
lcukso what changed17:34
Macerrange: well. that is probably the global economic collapse thing17:35
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StskeepsMacer: at least you didn't preorder a pandora17:35
Macerprobably had too much of a stake in the US$ or property17:35
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MacerStskeeps: the same TI stuff plagues the TB also17:35
MacerOPEN EMBEDDED my ass :)17:35
ShadowJKEU is a bit fuzzy. Some aspects of EU don't apply to all of EU, and some aspects extend and apply in some places outside EU17:36
lcukMacer, dont shout that too loudly17:36
lcuksomeone may take it as an invite17:36
Moo___ShadowJK: italians don't even translat the directives to their language ;)17:36
javispedroto open embed his ass?17:36
Macerlcuk: hahaha17:36
* mgedmin was quite surprised this year when he discovered UK wasn't in Schengen17:36
Macerfreudian slip17:36
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Maceruk doesn't use euros does it?17:36
Maceri thought they stuck with their pounds17:36
Maceri only recently found out the royal family still has control of hte military17:37
Macerlike the queen decides on what to do with it still17:37
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ShadowJKSchengen is the border control thing17:38
Macershe should have them kill parliment.. like ye old days17:38
Macerah well... i'm off to sleep for a bit. tty later17:38
MacerStskeeps: i will let you know if 250 is viable with shipping tomorrow or saturday17:39
Stskeepswe'll see.. no promises yet17:39
ShadowJKWhat are they as new?17:39
Moo___how can I type ä with US n900 layout17:39
ShadowJKIs it under chr/sym perhaps17:40
VDVsxmgedmin, same , lol17:41
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RST38hmoo: press top left key17:42
RST38hmoo: select :, then press the A key17:42
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mgedminMoo___, fn+ctrl, ¨, a17:43
mgedmintook me ages to find the unicode code for ¨17:43
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RST38hit shows up as two characters here17:46
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fralsawesome, got home from fighting with win2k3 and lpd to find wap push dbus docs in my mail \o/17:47
* RST38h lazily watches Oct2009s discussing "games worth emulating"17:48
javispedrotell them to get out of your lawn!17:48
ccookeRST38h: have they mentioned any PS3/360 games yet? :-)17:49
javispedrono, but someone mentioned "the emulatos on android have better compatibility rates" and me feel dizzy17:50
mgedminwhere's diff for fremantle?17:50
RST38hccooke: coming17:50
Moo___mgedmin: nope, no luck yet :P17:51
Moo___top left is "sym ctrl"17:51
RST38h"Amiga 500: is apparently a console game17:51
* javispedro wins17:53
mgedminMoo___, you need to hold down fn (the blue northeast-pointing arrow), press sym/ctrl17:54
mgedmina symbol palette will pop up17:54
RST38hMoo: Mgedmin is right, sorry17:54
mgedminpress ¨, it will light up17:54
mgedminthen press a17:54
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mgedminfive easy steps17:54
javispedroSDK 0 javispedro 117:54
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* mgedmin wants to throw a sport at some UI designers17:54
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RST38hwhy not go for a knife from the start? we know THAT is what you REALLY want =)17:55
lardmansplade might do more harm ;)17:55
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RST38hEntering ~ character is funny too17:56
javispedrothe compositing thing sucks, since it's basically just getting the window contents as raw bitmaps (using xshmimageget) and then uploading as gl textures. at least on ogl, not yet seen the ogles code path.17:56
Moo___mgedmin: i am pretty sure I know what you mean17:56
Moo___but it does not work :P17:56
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mgedminworksforme, Moo___17:57
mgedminif I wasn't bitten by bug 5343, I could start xchat and prove it to you17:57
povbotBug "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling17:57
javispedroif the ogles code path is anything similar this means using the "official" scaler konttori shown us will be faster17:57
javispedrobecause data uploaded to gpu will be halved17:57
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mgedminhm, actually, I may be using an UK keyboard layout17:58
mgedminI wonder if the popup palette is different for US17:58
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pupnik_  javispedro but for 2x scaling, the composited path means 1/2 as memcopy as without composited, right?17:59
pupnik_s/as/as much/17:59
javispedropupnik_: exactly.17:59
infobotpupnik_ meant:   javispedro but for 2x scaling, the composited path means 1/2 as much memcopy as without composited, right?17:59
* javispedro reparses17:59
Stskeepsmorning orbarron18:00
pupnik_say i scale 2x, that means 4x memcpy18:00
javispedropupnik_: without compositing, I'd expect the GPU to draw on to screen directly18:00
javispedrothus avoiding any memcpy at all18:00
pupnik_with this composite i copy original siye twice, so 2x18:00
orbarronmorning Stskeeps18:01
javispedrowith compositing and outputting 800x480 it's going to upload a 800x480 texture to gpu18:01
mgedminwtf segfault?
pupnik_ow, no... no...18:02
javispedroseems so.18:02
javispedroactually, a FBO.18:02
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pupnik_ok well device is fast enough18:02
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mgedminwaah, dead ssh sessions are hogging all my PTYs18:03
mgedminis there a bug asking for an increase?18:03
Stskeepsi vote for more open xterms too18:04
mgedminbug 582418:04
povbotBug Maximum number of pseudo terminals too low (4)18:04
pupnik_were the sgx designers this clueless about what we need, ir is this a limitation imposed by x?18:05
pupnik_nice clppless Q, pupnik18:05
* Moo___ managed to switch Suomi Svenka layout and can now type å and ö but no ä :(18:06
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Moo___up arrow18:06
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mgedminanybody experimented with init scripts on fremantle?18:07
lcukwhich is the best vmware image for fremantle stuff?  the laptop network pissed me off for the final time18:07
Corsachmnhm what exactly maemo architecture uses for managing the archive? (asking because we started accepting 3.0 source format which I guess aren't known in maemo atm)18:08
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javispedroseems that indeed the ogles codepath is mostly the same as the ogl one.18:13
javispedrowhy aren't they using FBOs?18:13
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mgedminflaky flaky network18:15
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AndrewFBlackIs there no way to disable an applet on n90018:17
lcukjavispedro, so you are patching up the sdk side of things still18:18
lcuk(very worthy btw!)18:18
lcukAndrewFBlack, explain more..18:18
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javispedrolcuk: yeah, I am reading to try to understand how it works and make more informated comments in bug #487018:18
povbotBug Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK18:18
AndrewFBlacklcuk, ok lets say I'm tried of see load applet right but I don't want ot install it can I not disable it like before?18:19
* mgedmin very very angry about bug network flakyness18:19
lcukit happens all over mgedmin18:19
fiferboyAndrewFBlack: No, it seems there is no way of disabling status bar applets18:19
lcukthe wifi end of my house is annoying18:19
fiferboyMaybe if you dig into some configuration files that control the loading of them...18:20
mgedminlaptop's wifi is _fine_, n900's wifi is tired18:20
lcukheh other way round here18:20
AndrewFBlackseems like there are several functions they have remeved to make fremantle "Simpler" has made it well not so simple to me18:20
lcukthe laptop works great if its within about 5 foot of the router18:20
lcukotherwise it has a shitfit18:20
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lcukAndrewFBlack, you want to install the applet but you dont want it running?18:21
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AndrewFBlackwell lets say I don't want it running right now atleast like I don't always need load applet running but I have ot keep it running all the time now18:23
AndrewFBlackI think I like Maemo5-loadapplet better but I can't figure out how to do screenshots with it18:24
lcukfile it as an bug/enhancement request?18:24
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jyskywhat's the latest eta for n900?18:25
w00tnokia uk have been saying that shipping of preorders starts on the 9th for a fair while, so i'm sticking with that18:26
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jyskyfew weeks ago i asked from and they said that week 45. don't know if it has changed18:29
RST38hWW45 is like NOW18:29
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jyskyyeah, but if they get 2 pieces at friday afternoon it's still 45 :)18:30
RST38hSunday still satisfies the promise, in European terms18:30
w00toverseas dates have been very mixed18:30
jyskydon't think they be going through their deliveries at weekends18:31
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javispedroTODO: non-comp. in portrait mode18:31
* lcuk takes apart nintendo wii18:32
* mgedmin wonders why RST38h uses a double-double-u prefix for week numbers18:32
RST38hmgedmin: work-week18:32
RST38hmgedmin: pretty standard in the industry18:32
mgedmininteresting, I've never encountered it18:33
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SpeedEvilHas anyone here ordering from gotten an email?18:33
mgedminI've always used ISO 8601, which is just W4518:33
rangeHmmm. Wouldn't that be different for everybody depending on when they take their vacations?18:33
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rangeAnd. I don't have 52 work weeks per year :)18:34
RST38hrange: nah, it is not a work week only if everyone stops working18:34
RST38hwhich will eventually happen, I guess, but not right away18:34
RST38hThe Tentacled One needs some more time waking up18:35
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mgedminooh, conboy devs are fixing bugs!18:36
mgedminI should file some new ones18:36
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pinheiro_hey people18:52
pinheiro_one question what is teh defoult font in maemo?18:52
rangeNokia Sans, probably.18:52
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VDVsxyeah, think so18:53
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mgedminuh oh bumped max pty limit to 16 and ran out of them18:54
VDVsxthe maemo encyclopedia should know that :)18:54
VDVsxqwerty12, what the default font in maemo ?18:54
* mgedmin whispers "nokia sans"18:54
qwerty12Nokia Sans18:54
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VDVsxqwerty12, thanks ;)18:55
IrcngHi all18:55
pinheiro_now were can i find it :)18:55
pinheiro_making mocks :)18:55
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JaffaBlimey, fmradio's now in extras18:56
JaffaNeeds a screenshot18:56
qwerty12pinheiro_: has two ways, with the install Nokia Internet Tablet Video Converter method being the easiest...18:56
IrcngAnyone knows when new n900 trully will be launched in US?18:56
qwerty12Jaffa: They can all be found on wazd's blog ;)18:57
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RST38hIrcng: no.18:57
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Jaffaqwerty12: Are they actually used by the app? I've not tried it (I'd also say it needs an XB-Maemo-Display-Name of 'FM Radio')18:57
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qwerty12Jaffa: Well, it does have the scale, but it does not look like one on wazd's blog =)18:58
pinheiro_only windows and mac ports :(18:59
pinheiro_oo well wine will get it i think18:59
qwerty12The SDK route is also available...18:59
javispedroanyone saw anyone using HildonRemoteTexture?19:00
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RST38hThe Firefox for Mobile aggregator is back!19:02
pinheiro_qwerty12:  thanks wine worked the software works via wine, :) now to find the ttf19:03
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* javispedro thinks adding HildonRemoteFBO wouldn't be a bad idea19:03
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javispedroah well, enough clutter for today19:05
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javispedroRST38h: not only it's back, but it's also "Unknown author"19:05
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andrei1089hi.. is there any way to catch the headset button press on N900?19:06
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RST38hjavispedro: can't it be disabled as being offtopic?19:07
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javispedroRST38h: I dunno. IMHO all tweets should disappear from there.19:09
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practisevoodoo_does anyone know how to enable usb host mode inside easy debian on an n810?19:23
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lcukpractisevoodoo_, easydebian is inside a choot within diablo isnt it19:29
lcukie, if you enable hostmode the normal way, wont it just follow and use that19:29
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* lcuk makes a nintendo wii fixing tool19:36
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courmischanyone knows how to get pannable rather than scrollbar widgets with Qt4  on N900 ?19:39
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TomomosiusWhant to win prizes like Xbox360 Elite,PS3,PSP-3000,40 inc LCD TV and many more. Then watch this video It will explain u how.U can pm me here to19:40
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VDVsxlol, no N900's :(19:41
qwerty12VDVsx, for you, they will reserve an Android-running phone of your choice19:42
VDVsxqwerty12, nice ;)19:43
* VDVsx wants one :)19:43
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KhertanHi everybody !19:43
mgedmin~lart flaky wifi19:44
* infobot puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at flaky wifi19:44
* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... zip 42350... Island McLean KY19:44
KhertanTopic doesn t say anymore that maemo 5 will not be available on n8x0 ... does it s mean it will ?19:45
mgedminnah, it means everybody knows already19:45
mgedminthere probably exists a parallel universe in which maemo 5 will be backported to the 77019:46
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Khertanwhy does nokia fuck the gtk.filechooserdialog with their theme ....i can t display extension with hildon.filechooserdialog !19:47
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Khertandoes there is a way to read received sms on n90019:49
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Khertani mean with python ?19:49
zaheermevent logger api19:54
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fiferboycourmisch: pannable widgets are going to be default in the next release of the qt libs19:55
fiferboycourmisch: If you want to try them out now, go to and click the install arrow19:55
courmischfiferboy: ok19:57
courmischfiferboy: btw, why was tray icon class removed rather than stubbed?19:57
Khertanzaheerm: does there is examples somewhere ?19:58
Stskeepsno tray icons in fremantle? :P19:58
Khertanor api doc ?19:58
fiferboycourmisch: I'm not sure.  You could try asking at #qt-maemo19:58
zaheermKhertan, there should be, i don't know where though19:58
Khertanah ok ...19:59
courmischSMS are exposed via DBus with an internal API19:59
Khertanthe purpose is simple20:00
Khertanwhen an sms is receive with a specific code erase data take picture and gps position and send it to kill the thief :)20:00
Khertanjust in case it could be usefull for a stupid thief which didn t flash the n90020:01
courmischI'm pretty sure N900 is not capable of killing someone20:01
Stskeepswanna bet?20:01
courmischI doubt CE label would allow it20:01
Khertanyep but with gps position stream send i can20:02
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Flandry__We just leave the killing part to Skynet's "operatives"20:02
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Khertanmaybe i can read sms file if it s stored somewhere20:04
Khertanhum not a good idea for battery20:04
courmisch/var/spool/sms IIRC20:05
VDVsxKhertan, probably they will release the API for that20:05
courmischdefine they?20:05
Khertanyep ... i ll wait the api20:05
VDVsxthere's a couple of apps for Symbian with the same functionality ;)20:06
Khertanor at least documention on dbus20:06
VDVsxcourmisch, Nokia20:06
Khertanyep and palm too :)20:06
courmischmy understanding as an employee in the maemo cellular team is _no_20:06
courmischbut the upper-layer Telepathy API, maybe20:07
Khertani ve done one for my palm which install himself in the firmware20:07
* RST38h moos20:07
Khertancourmisch: :(20:07
wjtthe Telepathy API is all in the open20:07
VDVsxKhertan, I've done a similar thing with pyS60, but not for the same propose20:07
wjtplus the regular Telepathy interfaces20:07
courmischthe CSD API is not very hard to figure out, but it's unlikely to be documented20:07
VDVsxcourmisch, security reasons ? :P20:08
Stskeepscourmisch: you did notice cellmo-icp28-headers are in sdk?20:08
courmischbut that's only useful if you want to talk to the modem directly20:08
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Stskeepsstill, if that is accessible, then why not csd? :P20:09
courmischbecause then we have an excuse for not maintaining the API in Maemo 6, and for not supporting apps that screw cellular up20:10
courmischStskeeps: ofono is probably a better source if you want to reverse engineer the modem protocol anyway20:11
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lcukKhertan, easy api for python20:12
RST38hStskeeps: Or you can google for "cellular AT command set"20:13
courmischThe N900 does not talk AT natively20:13
Khertanlcuk ? for what ?20:13
RST38his there some point where you can feed AT commands though?20:13
courmischthe USB port20:13
lcukthe heck of it20:13
Robot101Khertan: I don't see the problem - you can send and receive SMSes through telepathy20:14
RST38hcourmisch: ?20:14
RST38hOh ok20:14
Robot101even without any magic cellular extra interfaces20:14
courmischthe only thing that uses AT is the USB Abstract Communication Modem interface20:14
courmischfor compatibility reasons20:14
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* lcuk tried ordering pizza with telepathy too :)20:15
pupnik_i am getting operated-on.  n810 at standby :)20:15
KhertanRobot101: i didn t know20:15
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courmischyou can also talk AT commands by invoking pnatd...20:15
Khertanfor me telepathy = msn + jabber :)20:15
courmisch...but the device supports only one instance at a time20:15
Robot101Khertan: courmisch and wjt said like 10 mins ago :)20:15
Robot101Khertan: on N900, telepathy = jabber + cellular + skype + sip20:16
Robot101and we have IRC, MSN, AIM, etc to download and install20:16
Khertani m looking at the api reference ... slow 3g connection :)20:17
zaheermRobot101, have you or other telepathy guys noticed issues with telepathy-butterfly on n900? i have no idea how to check logs or anything but it seems most of the time it just says network error and sometimes i'm lucky (or not wrt msn) and it has connected20:17
lcukKhertan, did you ever get a scratchbox setup at home20:18
lcukor are you still onboard20:18
Khertanlcuk : still onboard :j20:19
lcukhow are you finding it on n900 now20:19
lcukhave you settled in20:19
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Khertani m still developping a from scratch pygtkeditor20:20
lcukmake sure you post about your progress20:20
Khertanbut what s annoying me the much currently is that i can t use gtksourceview20:20
lcukwhats up with it? the scrollbars?20:20
Khertanand show file extension in hildon filechooserdialog20:21
lcukit would be nice to allow them to connect together - use editor on one n900 and debug on another and run code on another20:21
Khertanlcuk : the scrollbar and the fact that slow in a pannablearea20:21
lcukperhaps its something the hildondialogs library could have a look at20:21
Khertanthis why i ve dev a full python hildoncodebuffer :)20:21
Khertanand it s works ...20:22
lcukis it possible to reuse the principles from your simplified calendar widget20:22
lcukthats ok then20:22
Khertanregex powa20:22
Khertannow i m implenting the undo manager20:23
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Khertanas there isn t undo in textbuffer20:23
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Khertani really like this n900 :)20:23
lcukhow long do you have on the train?20:23
Khertanbut it s annoying that gtk.filechooser is unusable now on fremantle20:24
lcukyeah, like i say theres a few dialogs that arent right20:24
lcukand if the file select is wrong, it could join with the font and color dialogs20:24
Khertanaround 4 hours by day ... 3 day by week20:24
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lcuk3 days a week isnt so bad20:25
lcuki did an 8hour train stint last week20:25
lcukreally tested media player20:25
Khertanyep two days working at home20:25
Khertanouch did you have a second battery ?20:26
Khertani test it everyday :)20:26
lcukyeah, next time i go im taking transcoded tv episodes20:26
lcukgonna see how much of a difference they make20:26
Khertanthe main problem i ve is for playing video with subtitle ... it doesn t read subtitle when they are in a separate file20:27
lcukheh last time i messed with subtitles20:27
Khertanso i use mplayer20:27
lcuki edited the file and gave tracy hints about star wars20:27
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lcukmplayer is built now?20:27
zaheermKhertan, that should be easily sorted20:27
zaheermKhertan, what type of external subtitle file is it?20:28
Khertanyeah i got it on my n900 so it is :)20:28
Khertanzaheerm: don t know ... doznload ... unzip ... use it :)20:28
Khertansrt without tag20:28
zaheermKhertan, if you can provide me a sample zip, i can get it working20:28
zaheermthen you can use the normal media player and hence dsp optimised codecs20:29
Khertani ve still some difficulty with the qwerty keyboard as you can see :)20:29
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Khertanzaheerm really ? where is the trick ?20:29
Khertanzaheerm : yep 2s i got the limk20:30
zaheermKhertan, probably no subtitle decoder for your subtitle format installed, so i can build a small package that contains it20:30
zaheermi assume same file plays in totem fine on the desktop right?20:30
lcukDEVELOPERS: there is a small survey going on on t.m.o, PLEASE fill it in20:32
Khertanyep work fine with totem20:34
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Jaffalcuk: Meh, I'm still on my abstinence kick :-p20:35
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lcukjaffa, get over it, this thread is useful20:35
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Khertanzaheerm i can t provide a direct link : but it s available here :
Khertanselect one and click on 'Telecharger la selection'20:37
Jaffalcuk: I've looked; can you refine "useful"?20:37
lcukinformative then20:37
lcukgood to know what devs are actually doing in one place and where they think they are upto20:37
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JaffaMore so than looking at -devel in m.o/p/?20:37
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lcukall email is a swrawling wasteland filled with viagra ads and junk20:38
* Jaffa meant extras-devel user/ packages20:38
lcukyeah tis20:38
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lcuk:D the best isp throttling comeback ever :D
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Khertanhum auto rotation is funny for a code source editor :)20:42
* Khertan is still trying to found a way to show extension in hildon.FileChooser20:43
lcukKhertan, how much worse is gtk filechooser20:43
zaheermKhertan, ok so just need to compile the subparse element20:43
zaheermKhertan, give me 1/2 an hour and i will put it in extras-devel or something20:44
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wazdoh my god, news of the week!20:47
wazdSony invented "apple" keyboard!
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Khertan2i m back ...browserd crash20:47
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lcukwazd, why is there a bullet hole in the middle of it20:47
wazdand macbook air eventually20:47
wazdlcuk: that's trackpoint20:48
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Khertan2lcuk : not useable gtk one display only 3 characters20:48
lcukKhertan2, arg20:48
Khertan2due to the giant open button theme20:48
Khertan2and gtk.recentchooserdialog didn t show anything20:49
Khertan2so an other things to do myself20:50
zaheermmy god that post to the poll took a while :)20:53
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acidjazzany update on the n900 ship date21:01
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w00tacidjazz: what is the last you heard?21:03
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frals"pr0xyfl00d3r", wow, havent seen a 'cool' nick like that in a while :)21:04
VDVsxw00t, I heard, same release date as duke nukem forever ;)21:05
* VDVsx hides21:05
fralsthe question is - will it run duke nukem forever? dealbreaker if not tbh!21:05
w00tVDVsx: hehe, i was wondering for a while.21:05
VDVsxfrals, oh yeah, will be one of the pre-installed games ;)21:06
w00tfrals: sure it will! together with a digital compass so you can duke it out in the real world if you feel like it21:06
* w00t snerks21:06
lcukVDVsx, of course its the same time, DNF is a launch title on the n900 itself21:06
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w00tlcuk: shush, you have an n90021:06
* VDVsx has one too :P21:07
* w00t puts VDVsx between the crosshairs21:07
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acidjazzw00t: nothing, all the maemo forum posts just lost the subject21:08
VDVsxNov 16, was last I heard21:09
acidjazzlcuk: howd you get one?21:09
w00tacidjazz: well, nokia uk have been saying that shipping starts on the 9th for about the past 2-3 weeks now21:09
acidjazznov 9th?21:09
acidjazzthast not too far21:09
zaheermnov 9th for preorders21:09
* w00t nods21:09
zaheermin store probably 14th21:09
lcukacidjazz, get one of what?21:10
w00tlcuk: n90021:10
VDVsxzaheerm, that's Saturday21:10
zaheermand other countries 16th21:10
acidjazzlcuk: n90021:10
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lcukneeded one for this:
zaheermVDVsx, yah we have no life, saturday and sunday are like work days :)21:10
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* w00t is personally considering taking the whole of next week off if it arrives.21:11
VDVsxacidjazz, I bet that more than 60% of the people here have n900's21:11
lcuknahhh VDVsx21:11
zaheermi have bad news for khertan2, the media player needs to actually set the subtitle-uri :(21:11
zaheermso you'd need another player ui21:11
zaheermeven if i get subparse into extras-devek21:11
lcukzaheerm, at least you tried, is that info able to be documented somewhere21:12
lcukwhere it wont be lost21:12
zaheermi should do some wiki stuff21:12
lcukits a shame you cannot link pages with projects21:12
lcukin the same way you can link bug reports21:12
VDVsxlcuk, well, stars + 300 summiters + nokians + contractors + bloggers = a lot of N900's out there ;)21:12
lcukVDVsx, sure21:13
lcukbut 90% of those over there have never said a single word!21:13
zaheerm300 summiters, i doubt even 75 are here21:13
ccookeThere are 387 people here... but how many of them only lurk?21:14
lcuki dont doubt theres a lot21:14
wazdVDVsx: not all stars got their n90 btw ;)21:14
VDVsxwazd, true :(21:14
lcukccooke, i was gonna point you out as a lurker, then you spoke21:14
zaheermlcuk, so you didn't get a 2nd n900 at summit did you?21:14
RST38hccooke: most.21:15
ccookelcuk: when? now?21:15
lcukzaheerm are you nokia emp?21:15
lcukyeah lol ccooke21:15
zaheermlcuk, nope21:15
zaheermlcuk, i'm just a poor gstreamer dev :)21:15
zaheermwith an 770, n810 and now n90021:16
lcuknot a bad thing to be :)21:16
ccookezaheerm: nice collection :-)21:16
lcukdo all your devices run21:16
zaheermthe 770 runs chinook i think, n810 runs diablo, n900 runs fremantle21:17
zaheermbut until the n900, i didn't use the devices as much as i would have liked21:17
lcukit would be cool to try and get liqbase on 770 one day (more of an effort than 5 minutes at the 2008 summit)21:17
ccookezaheerm: what was missing?21:17
lcukzaheerm, i use my n900 OUTSIDE!21:18
zaheermi got flumotion running on the n810 and used it quite a bit21:18
zaheermccooke, cellular connectivity21:18
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* ccooke would say the n810 is the most successful device he's ever owned. the n900 is better, but might end up being used slightly less.21:18
zaheermalso the portability21:19
zaheermi prefer the smaller form factor21:19
acidjazzVDVsx: how?? where are they getting em?21:19
derfzaheerm: Really (about flumotion)?21:19
zaheermderf, yah i have it running on my n900 already21:19
derfDid you make a package for it?21:19
penguinbaitjust notice the browser "tear" is like body fluids and not pronounced like "tare"21:19
VDVsxacidjazz, well, Nokia loaned ~300 at the Maemo summit21:20
lcukccooke, used less?21:20
penguinbaitthank God for little icons21:20
acidjazzwhat does loaned mean?21:20
acidjazzyou have to like give it back?21:20
zaheermderf, no at the time i didn't know how to make a debian package :)21:20
zaheermacidjazz, yep, in april21:20
Jaffa6 month Product Loan Agreement21:20
derfzaheerm: That never stopped anyone else!21:20
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acidjazzwhat happens if you dont21:20
practisevoodoo_lcuk, looks like it does but that the device just isnt supported21:20
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lcukpractisevoodoo_, ?21:21
zaheermderf, well i plan to make a package for flumotion on fremantle21:21
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goodnightwhen n900 release party?21:21
practisevoodoo_lcuk, i asked a question a couple of hours ago, you answered21:21
zaheermderf, now i actually know how to make them :)21:21
lcuki know that lol, i cant scrollback21:21
ccookelcuk: my n810 I used *heavily* as an ebook reader.21:21
lcukwhy wont you use this one as such21:22
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zaheermmy n810 i used mainly as an ssh client and as a flumotion admin21:22
ccookeI'd probably do the same on the n900, but I was given an ereader last week...21:22
Jaffaacidjazz: Nokia claim RRP off you? and never loan any again.21:22
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* lcuk wants liqbase to operate collaboratively
lcukbook reader panning over multiple.  droooool21:23
ccookeand while I can't use it in the dark, it's *much* nicer to read than any LCD could be.21:23
lcukand everything else in liqbase21:23
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JaffaIs FBReader Fremantle compatible yet? (properly, I mean)21:23
ccookethat would be awful to read on the tube, though :-)21:23
lcukccooke, not really, change the orientation as you like21:23
ccookeI must admit, carrying an epaper device and the n900 is giving me ideas, though21:23
lcukyeah touchable kindle sounds good21:24
ccookelcuk: holding two devices together, in a confined space? Even with hands my size, they'd get dropped :-)21:24
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lcuklol ccooke thats just the principle :P21:24
ccookeI'm starting to think of some ideas for the future21:24
zaheermJaffa, congrats btw Hermes -> extras21:24
lcukccooke, ive wanted to combine devices for a while21:24
lcukive been thinking about it more and more recently, having things like code edit in one, designer on another and running on third21:25
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Jaffazaheerm: thanks :)21:26
ccookelcuk: I'm thinking about combining different devices together21:26
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ccookeepaper devices are great for reading: they're a large size. They're low power, easy to read.21:27
ccookethe n900 is a wonderful communicator21:27
ccookeit's a control device21:27
ccookeSo: I want a wifi-enabled epaper device, so I can use it in tandem with the n90021:28
zaheermJaffa, not sure if anyone has asked you...i have 2 contacts with the same name (diff people) in my contacts (also same in Facebook), one of those's photos got put in both my contacts. is there a way in the summary for undoing an auto-merge to handle this kinda issue?21:28
ccookeYou've seen the new stuff in mobile firefox, with weave?21:28
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ccookesharing bookmarks between the mobile and desktop firefox.21:28
ccookeSomething like that, but local and immediate.21:29
* lcuk nods21:29
ccooke(local in addition to the sync with remote servers)21:29
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ccookethat basically means a shared locally networked storage area - PAN style, whether bluetooth or via wifi.21:30
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lcukdont like bluetooth21:30
ccookeand an app on each device logging what they've looked at to the shared storage.21:30
ccookenor do I exactly, but it's the best current option.21:31
lcukkindle has 3g, does it have wifi too?21:31
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ccookebut there are ereaders with wifi. Some have bluetooth as well or instead21:31
ccookeI've been playing around with the ereader this week and thinking of options.21:32
ccookeThat's one.21:32
ccookeit's supposed to have 3g, too21:32
lcukso which have you been playing with21:34
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ccookeI have a prs-505. Not too new, but hey - didn't have to pay for it. And it's a good size and weight.21:35
ccookeit's goodd enough for me to realise I'll be buying a better one when I can afford to. And when I do, I'm hoping I'll be able to find one that the n900 can order around :-)21:36
ccookeof course, that does mean thinking up an interface that makes sense for it. On the n900 side, that's probably a browser extension21:37
* ccooke realises he's entirely killed the conversation here. Oops, sorry :-)21:37
lcukno i went looking at the bebook21:37
Shapeshifterany good news everyone?21:38
lcukvery interesting21:38
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zaheermlcuk, dumped some basic stuff here
ccookelcuk: I'll put some thought into it over the next few months. It's very much a "wait for the hardware to be ready" idea21:39
lcukzaheerm, :D coool21:39
lcukccooke, if you wait till its ready to start hacking for it ..21:39
ccookelcuk: did I say that? :-)21:39
lcukmake your plan, use it on the tech you have (n900)21:39
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lcukand see if it works and use it on ultiple platforms21:40
* frals bashes head against programming assignments in this java course.. step 1: implement client-server model over tcp. step 2: throw it all away and make it udp-multicast21:40
lcuklol frals21:40
ccookelcuk: no, I'll be looking around very carefully for hardware that might support it... and if all else fails, I've got a few tabs open with parts costs for an epaper display.21:40
lcukbetter than me, i was asked to use udp to save bandwidth after i made a tcp app21:40
lcukthen i was asked to put delivery checking and retries21:41
ccookelcuk: so you quite reasonably used a tcp-in-udp encapsulation, right? :-)21:42
lcukccooke, i was very tempted to just revert the tcp transport21:42
fralslol lcuk :D21:42
ccookelcuk: udp *does* have some advantages sstill21:42
lcukit does in some scenarios21:43
GeneralAntillesandre__, File manager?21:43
ccookeProbably none that the people giving you work to do understood, mind, but some :-)21:43
ccookelcuk: the main one being nat traversal, which probably doesn't apply in this case?21:43
lcukccooke, what OS are you planning on using for the ebook side21:44
sp3000romaxa: eh, I'm wrong actually -- current greasemonkey does install fine, I probably had both edition fighting each other before or something21:44
ccooke(hmm: )21:44
lcukno ccooke it was all on the same subnet21:44
sp3000romaxa: but the script install ui does fail to launch from either a userscript or the ext settings21:44
lcukand the nat traversal is a hack isnt it21:44
ccookelcuk: if I end up butchering a device for it... I'll probably use a Mer base with custom GUI.21:45
lcukflood the router from both ends21:45
lcukproviding you can get x11 on there21:45
ccookelcuk: no fllooding required, actually.21:45
RST38h! The Brothers Grimm on TV !21:46
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ccookethe nat traversal method usually requires a server somewhere that both ends can talk to, but if you know the IP address of both ends you can get it working with... say, one packet every minute or so in both directions, just to keep the connection up.21:47
lcuki am vanishing anyway.  nice chattin with you as usual charles, cyas all later \o21:47
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ccookesee you21:48
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derfUDP is useful for real-time communication.21:50
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derfWhere retransmission would just be a waste of bandwidth, because the data would be stale by the time it arrived anyway.21:51
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* Stskeeps notes there's a lot of danes coming by this channel.21:55
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w00tyes, far too many.21:56
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AndrewFBlackyou know making a finger friendly website for n900 that looks good on other mobiles devices is hard21:59
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* Stskeeps hates cross-compilation toolchains.22:04
* w00t high fives22:05
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fiferboyHow come just when Jaffa and GeneralAntilles lay off t.m.o it starts getting a record number of visitors?22:34
aSIMULAturgood evening maemoystava22:35
Stskeepsfiferboy: ow22:35
Stskeepsevening aSIMULAtur22:36
fiferboyHi aSIMULA*22:36
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AndrewFBlackI'm going to regreat this but I have 8 google wave invites if anyone wants one /msg me22:36
CutMeOwnThroatwtf is google wave22:37
CutMeOwnThroatI find it confusing to google for google services22:37
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AndrewFBlackkinda of a colaboration software22:37
w00tthat wasn't so hard, was it? :p22:37 has a wave now also if anyone has wave and wnts to be added to it22:38
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w00tAndrewFBlack: pick me, pick me22:38
Milo-Which Qt version does Maemo support?22:38
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aSIMULAturooh google wave i'd like an invite :)22:38
AndrewFBlackwoot 7 left /msg me your email22:38
lcuki have an invite somewhere22:38
w00taSIMULAtur: i'd send you one if I had one22:38
fiferboyMilo-: Currenty 4.5.322:38
AndrewFBlacksame aSIMULAtur22:38
lcuknever bothered22:38
Milo-fiferboy thanks22:38
fiferboyMilo-: 4.6 coming Q1 201022:38
aSIMULAturhow is everyone, long time no speak22:39
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Milo-fiferboy yeah, but it will be backwards compatible with 4.5 application, I hope?22:39
CutMeOwnThroatw00t, it was more, kind of, like, rhetorical, you know :)22:39
Milo-they can't change it THAT much :P22:39
Stskeepsdecent, waiting to see if n900 actually gets released in some days or not :P22:39
CutMeOwnThroatw00t, just expressing my disbelieve in the multitude of google services22:40
Milo-I think they pushed the release date to December now :P22:40
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fiferboyMilo-: It should run anything from 4.0 on22:40
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fiferboyMilo-: And there are 3.x compatibility libraries (but I have never tried those out)22:40
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Stskeepsfinland coming back online or there was a outage somewhere? :P22:40
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Milo-I'm from finland, and I didn't die :)22:41
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AndrewFBlack5 left if no one here wants them I'll just pick people from t.m.o who wantsthem22:41
Stskeepscos the amount of finns coming in right now is worrying ;)22:41
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fiferboyStskeeps: You're right.  That's a lot of .fi joining the channel22:41
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fralsAndrewFBlack: still got a wave-invite?22:42
Milo-*wonders if he should use Qt to get html-page, or use C++22:42
AndrewFBlackfrals yeah22:43
luke-jrMilo-: huh?22:43
luke-jrC++ has no support for HTTP/HTML22:44
inzAndrew, I'd like one too22:44
Milo-just figured that out22:44
Milo-Boost does..22:44
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AndrewFBlackinz, send me your email22:44
Milo-qt it is!22:44
luke-jrMilo-: Boost isn't C++22:45
Milo-I know22:45
Milo-hopefully most of it will be soon :)22:45
luke-jranyhow, I'd stick to one language22:45
luke-jrQt or C++22:45
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Milo-the user interface has to be made in Qt anyways22:46
Milo-so I guess I'll use that..22:46
luke-jrMilo-: please consider writing a library or CLI app first, and a GUI in Qt for that ;P22:46
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Milo-even a CLI would fail since I need to download a certain webpage for that.22:48
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Milo-or I could write a python application and then use qt bindings to show the data22:50
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VDVsxaSIMULAtur, still need a invite for wave ? :P22:55
aepyou got some? oO22:55
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VDVsxah ok, AndrewFBlack also have some ;)22:56
aSIMULAturVDVsx: andrew gave me one i think! :) still haven't gotten it yet...but thanks for hte offer mr same-surname :D22:56
VDVsxaSIMULAtur, it takes about a week, afailk22:57
aepVDVsx: would you send one to me?22:57
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VDVsxaep, sure, send me your e-amil in pm22:58
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AndrewFBlackVDVsx, I have 3 left22:58
AndrewFBlackfunny thing is until now i havn't heard of 2 generation users getting invites22:59
VDVsxAndrewFBlack, I was a GSoC mentor ;)22:59
VDVsxGSoC = Google summer of code22:59
aSIMULAturoh, quite long!23:01
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GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I feel so much better.23:19
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: How's that?23:19
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, same way I felt better after I unsubscribed from -users. ;)23:20
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Ah!  I never subscribed to -users, so I don't know that joy23:20
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, loading up Talk to stress myself out every 15 minutes wasn't fun.23:20
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: It has all changed since you left.  Everything there is really good now.  You should go and see for yourself...23:21
derfIt's unclear to me why anyone would ever do either.23:21
* GeneralAntilles puts a fork slowly into fiferboy's eye.23:21
fiferboyOkay, I deserved that23:22
fiferboySomeone has to try it, since qwerty12 isn't around23:22
* qwerty12_N900 slaps fiferboy.23:22
fiferboyI didn't deserve that!23:22
fiferboyHow am I to know you have been lurking here for 16 hours waiting for someone to mention your name??23:22
GeneralAntillesOh, Comcast is getting more awesome!23:24
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ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, always innovating new ways to screw you over eh23:24
GeneralAntillesI love how their slogan has become synonymous with useless crap.23:25
ShadowJKeverytime I visit the DX website looking for something I get scared by random stuff, either in: a) they MAKE things like that? or b) How can you ship THAT /from/ china at that price?23:26
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* qwerty12_N900 laughs at lcuk's empty "Barcamp Manchester this weekend!!" thread. Empty... pretty much sums up Manchester23:27
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ShadowJKthere's something seriously fucked up when you can get Cat5e cable via AIRMAIL from China cheaper than at a local shop23:27
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dmj7262ShadowJK, really?23:28
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StskeepsShadowJK: local shops are always overpriced23:28
dmj7262Does that include cat5e spools to make it yourself?23:28
ShadowJKI was looking at readymade cables23:29
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ShadowJKor rather, accidentally stumbled on them whilst looking for a non-davicom usb ethernet adapter23:29
dmj7262that the readymade ones are overpriced isn't surprising23:29
lcukqwerty12_N900, i tend to agree right now23:29
lcuk:P get yourself up to manchester23:30
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* Stskeeps starts the 13th toolchain compilation of the day.23:30
lcukyikes Stskeeps23:31
javispedrosince every gcc compiles itself twice or thrice, I guess its more like the 100th compilation of the day :)23:31
qwerty12_N900Stskeeps, it shouldn't be you doing it..23:31