IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-11-05

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luke-jr	champus: those are the biggest problem bits, but not just that, no	00:00
Jaffa	luke-jr: Presumably by dropping the baud down to something like 9600 to get enough fidelity	00:00
GeneralAntilles	champus, open kernel drivers, closed libs on some stuff.	00:00
luke-jr	Jaffa: but I thought GSM would lose the frequencies	00:00
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: obviously	00:00
ShadowJK	I think there's a fax mode	00:00
Jaffa	luke-jr: I did it myself, at least once - but didn't investigate the underlying implementation	00:01
ShadowJK	data over GSM (pre-GPRS) wasn't a standard modem hooked up to the GSM voice codec, obviously :-)	00:01
Jaffa	:)	00:01
qwerty12_N900	Jaffa: HildonFancyButton should really be a part of libhildon itself :)	00:01
luke-jr	ah, so the carrier needs to support it	00:01
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lbt	did someone say fax? Or was that MMS ?	00:01
javispedro	no fax? dealkiller!	00:01
ShadowJK	GSM has a ton of features and cruft nobody uses :)	00:02
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ShadowJK	There's this RSS-like thing for SMS too, iir	00:02
javispedro	like phone calls.	00:02
ShadowJK	iirc*	00:02
ShadowJK	javispedro, like that, yeah	00:02
champus	generalantilles, luke-jr: think it doesn't take long until they are cracked	00:02
Jaffa	qwerty12_N900: i.e. the big icon button with faded highlight on press?	00:02
GeneralAntilles	champus, until what's cracked?	00:02
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champus	generalantilles: the prop bits	00:03
* realitygaps waiting for the fax killer app		00:03
qwerty12_N900	Jaffa: Yes, that's what they are called in the Application Manager source code	00:03
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ShadowJK	OT: review of booklet 3g: "If Apple made a netbook, this is what it would have been"	00:04
javispedro	ah, the ORANGE button in SDK.	00:04
Jaffa	qwerty12_N900: Right. And it's its own impl?	00:04
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, how's Linux support?	00:04
champus	hm, general question: is the n900 with maemo also interesting for lets say teeny girls with daddys credit card? or is it too geeky for non-techier moneywasters?	00:04
Jaffa	champus: It's a bit bulky for that market, probably.	00:04
* Jaffa heard a Nokian describe it as "masculine"		00:04
* Jaffa TVs		00:04
qwerty12_N900	Jaffa: Yep. http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/blobs/master/src/hildon-fancy-button.c	00:05
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, no idea	00:05
GeneralAntilles	Although everybody I've shown Maemo 5 to has loved it.	00:05
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Jaffa	qwerty12_N900: One to submit to HildonExtras?	00:05
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, I think it's powervr too, so you're kinda like a roman slave on a trireme when it comes to drivers	00:05
javispedro	qwerty12_N900: lemme guess. the code is 100% duplicated in the clock app?	00:06
javispedro	ah, the clock app is closed.	00:06
champus	jaffa: is it to bulky for its features (screen size etc.)? or is it just that with its components its a little bit too big in comparison to less equiped smartphones?	00:06
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qwerty12_N900	Jaffa: Yeah, that idea had crossed my mind	00:06
lcuk	whats this fancy button for	00:06
javispedro	clicking.	00:06
lcuk	yeah i know	00:07
qwerty12_N900	Guess it should be proposed on -developers	00:07
qwerty12_N900	Ha	00:07
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javispedro	:)	00:07
lcuk	i cant see the start of the convo	00:07
champus	will i think: yeah, nice screen, need to grap my whole hand around it	00:07
champus	or will i think: hm, screen is nice but what about all the plastic around it?	00:07
javispedro	http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Clock.png	00:07
javispedro	those are the fancy buttons, aren't them?	00:07
qwerty12_N900	Yessir	00:07
javispedro	the "orange" buttons for those of us who still DON't HAVE AN N900.	00:07
* lcuk laffs		00:07
GeneralAntilles	champus, people who have only looked at numbers on the internet like to bitch about the thickness.	00:08
* GeneralAntilles doesn't see it as an issue.		00:08
GeneralAntilles	Since everything else they compare it to doesn't match up feature-wise.	00:08
lcuk	what part is fancy	00:08
lcuk	and are they new	00:08
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champus	generalantilles: okay, so the size is acceptable in relation to the features / hardware?	00:08
lcuk	they would just be clickable glyphs	00:08
lcuk	why are they doing anything differnt	00:08
ShadowJK	operators here marketed a "mese phone" to teeny girls. "mese" being short for MSN Messenger. Apparently that's all they use their computers for.	00:08
champus	generalantilles: as i usually say: size doesn't matter - money makes the world go round! :D	00:08
GeneralAntilles	champus, the size really isn't an issue.	00:09
GeneralAntilles	Unless you wear hotpants all of the time.	00:09
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champus	generalantilles: i don't wear any clothes	00:09
luke-jr	champus: N8x0 were never "cracked" even to today	00:09
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realitygaps	size is great imho, fits in a belt little holder like any other phone...	00:09
lcuk	has anyone checked if they are waterproof	00:09
qwerty12_N900	Erm	00:10
champus	generalantilles: hmm well, surely: i like to wear jeans which sometimes fit tight - the trackball of my blackberry bold got crapped by keeping the blackberry in my jeans when beeing in clubs and moving around fast etc.	00:10
realitygaps	should get guaka to do it seeing as he's bricked already :)	00:10
javispedro	champus: if you don't have any clothes you can cirurgically insert it on your right leg.	00:10
* qwerty12_N900 points out that they are loaned		00:10
champus	generalantilles: could this be a problem for the n900 to? don't want to use my guarantee again every 3 - 4 months -_-	00:10
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, agreed	00:10
luke-jr	champus: warranty*	00:10
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champus	yeah.. that's what i mean	00:10
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GeneralAntilles	champus, there's no parts sticking out to be broken.	00:11
champus	okay	00:11
realitygaps	champus: id worry most about the screen, otherwise it seems pretty solid	00:11
realitygaps	champus: ive dropped mine a few times too and taken it clubbing more than once	00:11
* lcuk has seen a damaged n900		00:11
lcuk	with a dent in the bezel and a chip in the screen	00:11
sevard	:(	00:12
sevard	really	00:12
* javispedro will miss the soft carrying case		00:12
sevard	:(	00:12
champus	i'm using this old nokia mobilephone right now waiting for t-mobile sending me a new blackberry... this just sucks... i hope the n900 is as stable as my old nokia here, i can do anything with it and it still works	00:12
* qwerty12_N900 has seen a really early proto of the N900. Same thing...		00:12
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luke-jr	javispedro: what replaced it?	00:12
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, same what?	00:12
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lcuk	champus, thats something nokias always are	00:12
javispedro	luke-jr: other than suposedly being more scratchproof, nothing that I know of.	00:12
lcuk	*ymmv	00:12
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: The early protos looking fugly, so you could say they were "damaged"...	00:13
lcuk	nahhh swans	00:13
ShadowJK	javispedro, there is one for N900 too (carrying case)	00:13
lcuk	rough diamonds	00:13
ShadowJK	but it isn't included	00:13
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javispedro	ShadowJK: from Nokia? didn't see it.	00:13
ShadowJK	yes from nokia	00:14
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dmj726	I found a good use for iphones: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Db7pKjUrNXQ	00:14
champus	would be a nice feeling having a luxurious, feature rich and helpful smartphone which i can pull out of my trouser pocket after dancing 10 hours without having to worry about destroeyed keys..	00:14
ShadowJK	javispedro, CP-321	00:14
realitygaps	javispedro: pretty easy to find a case. Ive got two good ones already one from golla and a holster from digipack	00:14
ShadowJK	http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/carrying-and-styling/carrying-cases/nokia-carrying-case-cp-321-for-nokia-n900	00:14
realitygaps	javispedro: generic but a nice fit	00:14
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javispedro	realitygaps: the pretty thing about the n810 is that it exactly fitted the device	00:14
luke-jr	javispedro: no case at all?!	00:14
luke-jr	javispedro: and the display is still exposed?!	00:14
luke-jr	wtf	00:14
javispedro	luke-jr: sold separately http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/carrying-and-styling/carrying-cases/nokia-carrying-case-cp-321-for-nokia-n900	00:14
realitygaps	javispedro: the belt holster i got randomly in weeze airport is a perfect fit	00:15
luke-jr	that's retarded	00:15
javispedro	luke-jr: but I agree.	00:15
luke-jr	that is one of the big reasons I prefer clamshells	00:15
champus	do you think that it will be possible soon to use all the integrated hardware in n900? want to send my gps location every 2 minutes to my webserver	00:15
javispedro	it will the first device I buy with totally unprotected screen.	00:15
luke-jr	screen is protected all the time	00:15
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champus	think i have to code a daemon e.g. for it	00:15
javispedro	you can do whatever you want, champus.	00:15
realitygaps	champus: im working on something similar at the mo	00:15
champus	but don't wanna talk to the gps module in asm... are there hardware apis?	00:15
luke-jr	champus: I don't see what's so difficult to do about that	00:15
luke-jr	... asm? wtf?	00:15
realitygaps	champus: python should be able to interface with it	00:16
luke-jr	of course there's APIs..	00:16
javispedro	champus: start by reading liblocation documentation.	00:16
champus	yeah	00:16
champus	so there are python libs for the integrated hardware?	00:16
dmj726	GPS use is included right?	00:16
champus	what the fuck	00:16
champus	that really rules	00:16
luke-jr	champus: http://gpsd.berlios.de/libgps.html	00:16
dmj726	no extra thing you have to pay for?	00:16
javispedro	"GPS use" is free.	00:16
luke-jr	Python sucks :/	00:16
realitygaps	dmj726: depends what u mean by gps use	00:16
javispedro	road to road navigation, now...	00:16
luke-jr	dmj726: GPS is hardware, not service	00:16
luke-jr	ah, true	00:17
qwerty12_N900	A kitten dies everytime someone uses liblocation	00:17
luke-jr	mapping apps are all crap :(	00:17
champus	and a last question	00:17
champus	but its optional	00:17
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champus	:	00:17
dmj726	...my family had said they heard you had to pay for it, which was news to me.	00:17
javispedro	qwerty12_N900: ah, didn't know it was banned. closed, or just useless?	00:17
realitygaps	qwerty12_N900: is there a good alternative?	00:17
dmj726	(When they were at the Chicago event)	00:17
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luke-jr	realitygaps: libgps	00:17
luke-jr	http://gpsd.berlios.de/libgps.html	00:17
champus	will i be able to call people with the n900 and talk to them using an integrated microphone and listen to them using a speaker?	00:17
champus	yeah i know	00:18
champus	i can use icq	00:18
champus	oder skype	00:18
champus	irc	00:18
realitygaps	luke-js: thx, saw that link just now	00:18
luke-jr	...	00:18
champus	to communicate	00:18
champus	but i'm retro	00:18
lcuk	champus, you mean hands free?	00:18
champus	no i mean "making a phone call"	00:18
lcuk	yeah	00:18
luke-jr	it's a phone	00:18
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lcuk	hands free	00:18
luke-jr	wtf do you expect? O.o	00:18
qwerty12_N900	realitygaps, javispedro: Please ignore me, one of my stupid comments :)	00:18
realitygaps	yep speaker works nice	00:18
dmj726	So will I be able to find my location and get it to plot directions without any particular service?	00:18
luke-jr	dmj726: no	00:19
champus	luke-jr: well, with all these features it wouldn't be hard to forget that it is a smart_phone_	00:19
luke-jr	dmj726: plotting directions is not GPS	00:19
realitygaps	dmj726: you can do a route without a service ive managed to	00:19
lcuk	dmj726, you can plot location, but without a map for reference...	00:19
champus	luke-jr: as i said - would take a long time until i realize that there is no phone feature if they forgot it	00:19
dmj726	ah...then what would I need to pay for there?	00:19
dmj726	so no maps are included?	00:19
luke-jr	dmj726: probably software and maps	00:19
realitygaps	dmj726: ovi maps allows me to add a route (from/to points) even without net access.	00:19
champus	openmaps	00:19
GeneralAntilles	dmj726, Ovi Maps is bundled.	00:19
champus	or what its called	00:19
luke-jr	dmj726: you can download OpenStreetMaps maps, but no decent software to use it exists yet	00:20
GeneralAntilles	It some approximation of routing	00:20
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realitygaps	dmj726: you can download all the map files - ive got all of europe in ovi maps even without net connection	00:20
champus	will i be able to manipulate pictures taken with the internal camera on gimp right after shooting them?	00:20
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luke-jr	champus: GIMP ftl	00:20
luke-jr	champus: use Krita :D	00:20
realitygaps	champus: ive done that using gimp in a debian chroot	00:20
javispedro	champus: GIMP on 800x480?	00:20
realitygaps	luke-jr: and also krita :)	00:20
champus	this could help me with my problem showing people pictures from club evenings without editing them before (huge pupils etc)	00:21
dmj726	okay, so Ovi maps will let me plot a route between where I am, and a given street/city?	00:21
realitygaps	dmj726: not in the most efficient way , but it works	00:21
champus	how is typing at the n900 keyboard? does it feel fast after you learned it?	00:21
dmj726	(I don't necessarily need it to voice announce or anything)	00:21
realitygaps	dmj726: you cant search for a location without being online at present in ovimaps on n900 :(	00:21
dmj726	What is inefficient?	00:21
realitygaps	dmj726: but you can find the start and end points and it calculates the route	00:22
realitygaps	dmj726: hope that improves with release	00:22
champus	i'm a fucking fast typper on real keyboard so i need to be able to type very very quick on the smartphone otherwise i'll get bored ...	00:22
realitygaps	champus: its pretty decent for such a small keybd	00:22
champus	nice	00:22
champus	but the whitespace sucks aight?	00:22
luke-jr	champus: typing on a handheld is completely different from typing on a full keyboard.	00:22
dmj726	So I can tell it to plot a route between yere and 123 residential rd, Hometown USA?	00:22
champus	luke-jr: i know... typed with many handhelds	00:23
dmj726	(made up place of course)	00:23
realitygaps	dmj726: you would need to find the point on the map rather than entering the address	00:23
dmj726	or do I need to be online for that?	00:23
luke-jr	dmj726: inefficient as in, it might take an hour to drive the route it gives you when Google's route might take 45 minutes	00:23
KMFDM	champus, well i couldn't see myself typing any faster using just my thumbs	00:23
tbf	champus: not perfect, but definitely good enough	00:23
champus	luke-jr: but some are that crappy designed you really feel that its design is stopping you from tying as fast as it would be possible with these small keys	00:23
realitygaps	dmj726: to enter the address you need to be online	00:23
luke-jr	champus: if your standard is Zaurus, then it probably sucks	00:23
champus	luke-jr: never heard of zaurus	00:23
tbf	champus: seems i start typing blindly when IMing and walking	00:23
realitygaps	luke-jr: i thought it was pretty good compared to c860	00:23
dmj726	otherwise I would need like lat/long?	00:23
luke-jr	champus: Zaurus was a handheld about 5 years ago. it had an awesome kb	00:23
champus	tbf: well that should be possible on every smartphone, otherwise its just crap	00:24
champus	ahh one more question, then i'll stop bothering you	00:24
realitygaps	dmj726: afai remember you need to locate it visually but can also use your gps position as one of the points	00:24
KMFDM	i find it a bit hard to type blind without accidentally hitting other keys	00:24
luke-jr	Zaurus SL-C760: http://www.dreadscott.com/C760/Zaurus_C760.jpg	00:24
champus	is there usb input / output and will there be something like a docking station?	00:24
* realitygaps is still running his zaurus on BSD		00:24
luke-jr	champus: ok, now you need to seriously just go read the specs	00:24
dmj726	ah...that should really be improved.	00:25
luke-jr	I wish I could force a company to build a modern Zaurus-phone :/	00:25
champus	luke-jr: you're right, but the last questions i asked where answered on a way it let my phantasy go wild	00:26
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tbf	champus: still the keyboard is not good enough, that i wouldn't login via ssh for complex debugging sessions	00:26
champus	luke-jr: specs only say: "yes" or "no". as i asked for the keyboard you made comparisions, explanations usw	00:26
champus	etc.	00:26
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champus	better to imagine	00:26
realitygaps	luke-jr: there are some nice advantages on the n900 over the zauruses....	00:27
realitygaps	luke-jr: even the n8x0's	00:27
luke-jr	champus: but USB is merely yes or no :p	00:27
realitygaps	luke-jr: like inbuilt wifi	00:27
luke-jr	realitygaps: not when it comes to keyboard	00:27
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luke-jr	and design	00:27
luke-jr	by modern, I meant updated hardware ;)	00:27
luke-jr	256+ MB RAM, decent CPU, builtin wifi/gsm	00:27
realitygaps	luke-jr: fair point but the n900 does a pretty decent job and is finally a good replacement (for me) for the zauruses and psions	00:27
luke-jr	clamshell	00:28
realitygaps	clamshell was nice for sure	00:28
realitygaps	and the twist screen	00:28
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luke-jr	I don't care much for the twist screen tbh	00:28
dmj726	zaurus looks like a pandora	00:29
luke-jr	but I suppose it could be handy if someone wanted to hold it up like a phone	00:29
SpeedEvil	champus: exact status of USB is up-in-the-air	00:29
dmj726	like I said, you want a pandora with a gsm module.	00:29
luke-jr	dmj726: yeah, Pandora might be a decent replacement	00:29
luke-jr	you cant' just add a gsm module tho	00:29
dmj726	I know	00:29
luke-jr	Pandora is IIRC also missing a lot of keys	00:29
champus	tbf: hmmm... but what about connecting a keyboard via usb or bluetooth (if this is possible)	00:29
champus	tbf: is working in a shell feeling good on the screen?	00:29
champus	erm	00:29
champus	nokia store says it will be released this month right?	00:29
luke-jr	champus: BT keyboard is supported	00:29
dmj726	you can have bluetooth keyboards I believe	00:29
realitygaps	working in a shell is as good as it could be at that sorta screen size	00:29
SpeedEvil	champus: It may be capable of witht minimal hacking to connect external USB devices. You will at least need power. but this has not been confirmed.	00:30
champus	release this month but no info bout usb status?	00:30
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champus	hm	00:30
champus	having a docking station would be nice	00:30
champus	this would be fckn smart	00:30
GeneralAntilles	champus, USB Consortium may be screwing us over.	00:30
luke-jr	?!	00:30
SpeedEvil	champus: one of the few people with a n900 would have to actually try doing USB host mode. And none have - and reported it.	00:30
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champus	hmm	00:30
GeneralAntilles	champus, there are some complications with USB charging.	00:31
GeneralAntilles	So, we don't know yet.	00:31
dmj726	I would really like to see host mode attempted.	00:31
champus	ok	00:31
champus	we'll see	00:31
luke-jr	dmj726: N810 had host mode.	00:31
SpeedEvil	USB charging should not affect things though - other than regulatorarily.	00:31
dmj726	I know	00:31
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil, that's the point.	00:31
SpeedEvil	But - it's possible there are bugs or other reasons it won't work.	00:31
dmj726	But I'm only interested in the n900 at the moment	00:31
GeneralAntilles	The USB idiots may have made them prevent it in hardware.	00:32
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SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: they can't easily.	00:32
tbf	champus: terminal as 62 columns by default and is excellent to read	00:32
dmj726	Hopefully prevent in hardware means just no power	00:32
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champus	it will be such a niice feeling wearing my bittorrent server in my trowsers pocket while it's exploiting nsa servers and sending my gps position to my friends when i'm outside but not when i'm at my friends girlfriends (excepting he is online in icq)	00:32
champus	woah everything is possible	00:32
RST38h	General: The way I heard it, USB host + USB charging do not work well together	00:32
tbf	champus: you can zoom it with the volume keys. even 100+ cols a readable	00:32
champus	wasn't this nokias quote?	00:32
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RST38h	General: I have not been able to understand if it is a hardware incompatibility or the need to write firmware support	00:33
champus	yeah	00:33
champus	so i could keep track on our servers very comfortable	00:33
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: the USB host/device port is built into the SoC - IIRC I looked at the specs briefly a while ago, and saw no device only port. There is no simple way to break it - and having no power is functionally broken enough.	00:33
RST38h	General: But it is serious enough to keep them from having host mode	00:33
dmj726	I would say that you definitely couldn't host and charge at once, but hosting while on battery is potentially another matter.	00:33
SpeedEvil	champus: having stuff active all the time will kill your battery life though.	00:33
champus	speedevil: right	00:33
SpeedEvil	IIRC some people have managed to get it down to 2 hours.	00:33
champus	speedevil: but in comparison to this crappy blackberry battery life will be endless as i read	00:33
champus	whate fuck	00:34
javispedro	2 hours!	00:34
champus	2 hours sucks	00:34
dmj726	yeah, but a power injected flash drive shouldn't be too bad	00:34
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SpeedEvil	That's 2 hours using it as a modem through bluetooth	00:34
SpeedEvil	and transferring files through 3G I think	00:34
dmj726	n900 at only 2 hours!	00:34
dmj726	:o	00:34
SpeedEvil	It's _not_ 2 hours normal use	00:34
champus	hm... what do you think, how long will the battery stand doing some usual internet surfing, listening to music and chatting?	00:34
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: active network is normal use for me	00:34
javispedro	sounds way too low even for extreme use.	00:34
champus	standard smartphone use	00:34
SpeedEvil	javispedro: I forget who it was.	00:35
GeneralAntilles	I haven't managed to hit 2 hours even with playing video.	00:35
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles: radio can use lots of power at edge of coverage	00:35
dmj726	managed to hit below 6?	00:35
GeneralAntilles	I get about 8-16 hours heavy to medium usage.	00:35
javispedro	I can manage nearly 3-4 hours with the n810 stuck in a reboot loop, and my battery IS bad (confirmed in the reboot loop thread)	00:35
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champus	nice	00:35
luke-jr	javispedro: what? my N810 can't even last 3 hours idle.	00:35
champus	will it be possible to change the battery with a better one (if a better one gets released)?	00:35
javispedro	your definition of idle is quite interesting :)	00:36
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, that's why you don't run Gentoo.	00:36
luke-jr	(where my "idle" is defined as GPS alive)	00:36
javispedro	luke-jr: I get 6 hours with navicore	00:36
javispedro	well, more like 5.	00:36
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: and what exactly are you blaming in Gentoo?	00:36
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: diablo kernel, note	00:36
javispedro	it covered an entire 600km travel :)	00:36
GeneralAntilles	luke-jr, libraries and software not optimized for power saving.	00:37
johnsq	GeneralAntilles: lol	00:37
champus	can someone explain me how to install my cracked windows xp prof. (original version) on my nokia n900? i want to play counterstrike and this doesnt work with linux, linux is so scheisse...	00:37
javispedro	SoAwfulItsCool	00:38
dmj726	have you tried WINE in an x86 emulator?	00:38
GeneralAntilles	johnsq, "lol" what? :)	00:38
dmj726	(may run slow)	00:38
johnsq	GeneralAntilles: about your stupid statement	00:38
champus	ok, serious question concerning my drug- and humanbusiness: is cryptoloop device and luks partition posible to integrate?	00:38
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dmj726	wasn't there news about some stupid xp phone?	00:39
champus	dmj726: seriously, are there chances to run some good supported win applications with wine? lol ^^	00:39
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GeneralAntilles	johnsq, _I_ made a stupid statement?	00:39
dmj726	note at any reasonable rate	00:39
champus	kk	00:39
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SpeedEvil	wine+qemu may be suitable for some very, very limited apps.	00:39
SpeedEvil	But you will be looking at a speed of perhaps 50MHz x86 equivalent.	00:40
champus	what kind of material is the touch screen? i don't wanna have a kind of display which gets crappy when snorting chemicals from it...	00:40
SpeedEvil	So functionally not.	00:40
dmj726	you would be running wine in a linux system running on an emulated x86 processor running on a 600mhz arm cpu	00:40
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dmj726	windows 3.1 is slow on n900	00:40
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champus	erm, what i really mean - does the display stand intensive all day use or does it get scraches fast?	00:41
pupnik	nice background map image (from the n900 meetup page) http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/n900meetup/assets/css/bg-map.jpg	00:41
GeneralAntilles	champus, as far as I can tell from using it intensely for the past couple months it's scratch-proof.	00:41
champus	nice	00:41
javispedro	ok, wtf.	00:41
GeneralAntilles	Now, I don't put keys or used razor blades in my pocket with my N900, so. . . .	00:41
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SpeedEvil	Also - IMO - a screen protector gets away from that issue.	00:42
champus	and my very very last question: does it have this specific "wow" effect when you pull it out of your jeans? i mean, do even big titted girls get impressed just by the way the n900 promotes itself in your hand?	00:42
javispedro	you asked that twice.	00:42
champus	no	00:42
* luke-jr locks champus up.		00:43
champus	i first asked if these girls would by it for their own	00:43
champus	but now i want to know if it fits to my lifestyle	00:43
champus	time is over were i'm hanging out with fat kernel hackers explaining them the specs of my new 10 baud modem from 1989	00:43
champus	wanna pull good working high tech out of my jeans letting all girls know bout my sexual empowerment with just one view	00:44
champus	hrmpf.. kk, im stopping it	00:44
champus	so, it does look good on the first view aight?	00:44
Jaffa	champus: yes	00:44
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dmj726	It looks "chunky" from all accounts.	00:45
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luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: where can I get these supposed patches?	00:45
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champus	hm	00:45
champus	if it HAS the power the chunky design announces thats okay	00:46
champus	otherwise it would be a 1989' gameboy...	00:46
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dmj726	I suspect it was power.	00:47
champus	are there interesting maemo projects i can put my mighty coding skillz on?	00:47
dmj726	short answer: YES.	00:47
champus	something maemo specifig, don't wanna code for ported projects	00:47
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luke-jr	champus: platform-specific projects are stupid	00:48
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champus	luke-jr: what i meant was, i dont wanna be part in a oss project like gnu tools, kernel, firefox eg	00:48
dmj726	How about a slr-style advanced video/still camera app	00:48
dmj726	with extra controls and variable focus during the video	00:48
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champus	luke-jr: better like to provide fresh software with never-seen-before-features	00:48
champus	hmm	00:48
champus	i hate multimedia	00:49
luke-jr	champus: if you mean you want to write something closed, then I will just ignore your project completely	00:49
champus	exception: porn	00:49
champus	luke-jr: no, nothing closed	00:49
champus	luke-jr: but something new which could be very handy having it on the n900	00:49
dmj726	He just doesn't want to do a port of a desktop app, I think	00:49
champus	luke-jr: maybe something fitting to the hardware	00:49
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dmj726	but not the awesome camera app?	00:49
champus	don't know, can't imagine what would be nice to have	00:49
champus	no	00:50
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luke-jr	champus: I have a number of ideas, but nothing simple.	00:50
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champus	for example?	00:50
kynky	im thinking of doing something withh ffmpeg xcb and haskell	00:50
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champus	luke-jr: im very good at doing this nasty network-systools-hacker stuff...	00:51
luke-jr	champus: I would like to tell my handheld my travel plans, toss it in my pocket, and let it manage giving me directions including planning food/sleep stops.	00:51
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luke-jr	champus: also mapping WiFi access points on the way, especially for areas where GSM connectivity is scarse	00:52
SpeedEvil	^open	00:52
champus	luke-jr: well wifi access recording / mapping is easy possible using erm	00:52
champus	what was it called	00:52
SpeedEvil	Unless you use the funky new WPA vulnerability.	00:52
luke-jr	champus: regarding food stops, it should have a general idea of the food pyramid to ensure I am well fed :p	00:52
champus	dunno, have to look... shows every wifi access point on a map using the gps module	00:52
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luke-jr	champus: kismet is barely maintained from what I can tell	00:53
champus	hmm.. often used with wpareplay	00:53
champus	kismet right	00:53
champus	but the other way round	00:53
champus	not searching for but automatically connecting to available defined spots	00:53
champus	right?	00:53
luke-jr	plotting their location and range on a geographical map.	00:54
champus	this map stuff sucks... all the vector shit and plotting etc	00:54
champus	way to much multimedia for me	00:54
luke-jr	might be interesting to try to connect to them and send a packet to the GSM IP, logging the AP's WAN IP too	00:54
champus	yeah	00:54
champus	should be easy	00:54
luke-jr	for phone-less devices, connect to and sync IMs ;)	00:54
champus	this is the stuff i mean with n900 specifig	00:55
champus	+specific	00:55
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champus	hm	00:55
luke-jr	champus: nothing N900 specific about it really	00:55
luke-jr	just as applicable to a laptop	00:55
luke-jr	or car computer	00:55
luke-jr	or wearable	00:55
champus	i could set up an alarm daemon for my media server - then i lay my n900 to the appartements front door letting it scan for new bluetooth devices	00:56
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champus	if one is called "my bitch girlfriends cheap handy" it will connect to the alarm daemon and stop all porn beeing played right now	00:56
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luke-jr	that's a simple project, sure	00:56
champus	its simple but dude... imagine... this would be godlike	00:56
luke-jr	...	00:56
luke-jr	or how about you just delete the porn and stop bragging on being a sex abuser?	00:57
champus	sorry	00:57
champus	its like dividing by zero	00:57
champus	what does "sex" ... "abuser" mean?	00:57
luke-jr	sure, sexual abuse is prevailant in modern culture, but at least some people are properly ashamed of it	00:57
champus	well, people who have problems with sex shouldn't have a n900	00:58
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luke-jr	champus: there's a difference between sex and sexual abuse	00:58
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champus	only people without sex should have access to the mighty forces of... a machine beeing to small for netbook and to big for smartphone	00:58
champus	ahh you mean sexual harrasment?	00:58
champus	raping?	00:58
luke-jr	porn is about the same as rape in my eyes	00:59
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champus	hm... can't really imagine how the n900 could increase my raping efficiency?	00:59
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champus	but propably the hardware will make it possible somehow!	00:59
champus	i love this thing	00:59
RST38h	no.	00:59
champus	would be also a good phone for kids btw	00:59
champus	total control	00:59
champus	gps tracking etc	01:00
pupnik	timsamoff takes some very nice pictures!	01:00
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champus	what about doing some table calculation	01:01
champus	only little stuff, posting workout data into a little table	01:01
* luke-jr puts champus on ignore.		01:01
champus	kk	01:01
champus	going to leave no	01:01
champus	*now	01:01
champus	have a nice evening :)	01:02
champus	btw: androids better than maemo you faps	01:02
champus	muha	01:02
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javispedro	...	01:02
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qwerty12_N900	faps?	01:04
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RST38h	hm	01:05
RST38h	I think it is from 4chan lingo	01:05
dmj726	It seemed he was compensating for something.	01:07
GeneralAntilles	OK, 2 hours clean and feeling good.	01:08
pupnik	i hope that was an unrelated thought	01:08
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javispedro	this does not make any sense. when clutter "fails" its trying to convert bitmaps to rgb888	01:09
RST38h	dmj726: penis length?	01:09
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dmj726	RST38h: I'll leave it up to you to decide.	01:09
RST38h	not that many alternatives when you come to think of it...	01:10
javispedro	gadget size	01:10
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pupnik	mhz wars	01:12
RST38h	iphone?	01:14
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* javispedro curses		01:27
javispedro	if (cogl_check_extension ("GL_EXT_packed_pixel", gl_extensions))	01:27
javispedro	glxinfo \| grep packed_pixel -> GL_EXT_packed_pixels	01:28
javispedro	GL_EXT_packed_pixels	01:28
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javispedro	s!!!!!!!!!!	01:28
pupnik	?	01:29
pupnik	hehe	01:29
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javispedro	either a typo, or some gl extension that google knows only 6 hits about	01:31
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javispedro	vs _packed_pixels which has 130,000 hits...	01:32
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javispedro	and most of the _packed_pixel 6 hits come from maemo.org... go figure.	01:32
javispedro	tada!	01:33
javispedro	sdk color issue fixed.	01:33
javispedro	and even optimized since there's now one less texture conversion.	01:34
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lcuk	hahahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AM6AN1hTCY	01:34
lcuk	javispedro, check this	01:34
* javispedro scores triple by deleting family photos		01:36
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ccooke	Evening, all	01:38
javispedro	evening	01:38
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Macer	hm	01:46
lcuk	hi ccooke	01:48
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* VDVsx is bored		01:51
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* lcuk is full of pizza		01:52
* SpeedEvil cures VDVsx's boredom.		01:52
* SpeedEvil puts away the petrol can and lighter.		01:52
* lcuk folds VDVsx up and puts him to be recycled.		01:52
* lcuk talks to the pizzabox		01:52
lcuk	shit!"	01:52
lcuk	wrong way round	01:52
* javispedro finally sees the HildonAwesomeButton or whatever its called in awesome blue, and not awful Ubuntu orange.		01:54
lcuk	+1	01:54
VDVsx	lcuk, I don't need to be recycled yet, I still have around 5 years of guarantee ;)	01:54
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lcuk	lol	01:54
lcuk	mmm my a key is sticking	01:55
* lcuk will clean and oil it tomorrow		01:55
Proteous	which key?	01:56
lcuk	my a key	01:57
lcuk	like i sid	01:57
lcuk	see	01:57
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, sorry, free of Talk. :P	01:57
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, howdy, successor. :P	01:57
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VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, what I did now ?	01:58
dmj726	n900 <a> key?	01:58
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, nothing, we just decided that you're the new me and gcobb is the new Jaffa. ;)	01:58
VDVsx	lolol	01:58
VDVsx	no one picked PB ? :P	01:58
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GeneralAntilles	I might nominate lardman for that one. ;)	01:59
ccooke	GeneralAntilles: Who are you, then?	02:00
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GeneralAntilles	ccooke, I'm me.	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Founding members don't have precursors. :P	02:00
VDVsx	texrat also needs precursor then ;)	02:00
ccooke	GeneralAntilles: so you're last year's model? :-)	02:01
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GeneralAntilles	ccooke, indeed. ;)	02:01
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, probably timsamoff.	02:02
javispedro	https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1537&action=diff	02:02
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javispedro	^^^or how I fixed the orange colors in SDK.	02:02
* javispedro sighs		02:02
GeneralAntilles	There, there, javispedro.	02:03
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* javispedro is bored now too.		02:05
GeneralAntilles	Kill some time! http://altitudegame.com/	02:05
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pupnik_	is this the Serge we know from Maemo? Augmented Reality Tower Defense for N97 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyWVH6jkDHg	02:15
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javispedro	GeneralAntilles: not bad! though I wonder if fullscreen Java applets won't cause havoc.	02:19
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, wish it were open source and not Java.	02:19
GeneralAntilles	Although trying to control it on the N900 would be hell.	02:19
javispedro	well, gnite	02:20
GeneralAntilles	Night	02:20
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* GeneralAntilles hopes TI picks up the Mali.		02:25
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pupnik_	do we expect android crapplets will run on n900?	02:27
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GeneralAntilles	If somebody ports the framework.	02:28
GeneralAntilles	I'd just as soon hope they don't.	02:28
GeneralAntilles	Don't want an OS/2 situation. ;)	02:28
pupnik_	mhm	02:28
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acidjazz	for hte love of all tahts holy	03:31
acidjazz	when is the freaking n900 going to ship already	03:31
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pupnik_	when its ready	03:34
pupnik_	third week nov i think	03:34
GAN900	acidjazz, should be soon.	03:35
pupnik_	btw, get a screen protector	03:35
pupnik_	:/	03:35
acidjazz	well how about i dont drop my phone :)	03:35
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GAN900	pupnik, what'd you do?	03:43
pupnik_	must have set it face-down onto sand and rolled it around a while	03:43
pupnik_	looks it	03:44
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GAN900	lol	03:44
pupnik_	one sand piece	03:44
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GAN900	I'm hopinh Boxwave will have a protector out soon.	03:44
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pupnik_	summit was fun	03:45
pupnik_	i want to do more meetups	03:45
pupnik_	code vacation	03:45
GAN900	I want to get one in Canada next year.	03:46
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pupnik_	mhm	03:47
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GeneralAntilles	Nearly 5 hours clean!	03:51
dmj726	of what?	03:53
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GeneralAntilles	Talk.	03:56
dmj726	ah	03:56
dmj726	I just made a graph of iphone apps vs popularity	03:57
lcuk	\|____	03:57
dmj726	Nothing is visibly used after the top 1%	03:57
dmj726	pretty good approximation.	03:58
lcuk	but thats ok	03:58
lcuk	app stores arent useful for everyone	03:58
lcuk	there are more vertical market apps in the world than popular ones	03:58
dmj726	Shows how the app store isn't a very good business plan for developers	03:58
lcuk	the person that makes a generic hobby spotting (birdwatching/trainwatching/mushroomhunting/fishing) engine will do well	03:59
lcuk	it can be	03:59
* lcuk coughs @ fiferboy		03:59
dmj726	lcuk: that's a great n900 app idea!	03:59
lcuk	yeah fiferboy already has most of his engine	03:59
lcuk	and he needs to make it generic	04:00
lcuk	and then it can be used for any hobby	04:00
lcuk	theres 100 apps	04:00
lcuk	so 100 of the lowly apps which each have 1000 users...	04:01
GeneralAntilles	I'd like to see that graph correlated with price.	04:01
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CutMeOwnThroat	would the average iphone user install any additional software anyway?	04:16
CutMeOwnThroat	or would that be "too complicated"	04:16
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GeneralAntilles	Yuck	04:42
GeneralAntilles	The Sholes has really sharp edges on its slide.	04:42
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samad	i am confused Maemo_5_developer guide uses csp_filter = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter"); for camera but https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/branches/fremantle-sdk-testing/maemo-examples/example_camera.c dont use	04:48
samad	anybody ? any help ?	04:51
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pupnik_	hilighting text is really stylus work	05:46
pupnik_	yaay for resistive screen	05:46
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GeneralAntilles	pupnik_, shift+arrow keys.	05:48
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pupnik_	GeneralAntilles: is that implemented somewhere in maemo5?	05:49
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GeneralAntilles	Most text areas.	05:50
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vladovg	hi all	06:10
vladovg	:)	06:10
vladovg	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27735&highlight=opengl	06:10
vladovg	traing to install this	06:10
vladovg	but ay am stuck	06:10
vladovg	mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p3	06:10
vladovg	and its gev my a error	06:11
pupnik_	YOUTUBE on N800, N810: mytube users can append +"&fmt=6" to searchstring and the tubes will play smoothly even while downloading	06:11
lcuk	vladovg, b-man isnt around now, but hes obviously the best person to ask	06:11
pupnik_	what error vladovg	06:11
vladovg	bin/sh: mkfs.ext3: not found	06:11
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vladovg	its sompting wit the IT	06:12
pupnik_	perhaps you need to install a package to get ext3	06:12
vladovg	?	06:12
vladovg	hmm	06:12
vladovg	tink its comming strath wit the diablo	06:13
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vladovg	google it but nothing about	06:13
pupnik_	ok i look	06:13
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pupnik_	mkfs -t ext3 ?	06:15
pupnik_	does that work?	06:15
vladovg	yes	06:15
vladovg	o noo	06:15
vladovg	ay did not test this	06:16
vladovg	moment	06:16
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vladovg	bin/sh: mkfs: not found	06:17
vladovg	:(	06:17
vladovg	mkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p1	06:17
vladovg	mkswap /dev/mmcblk0p2	06:17
vladovg	worcking fine	06:17
pupnik_	ok found it	06:18
vladovg	but no luck for ext3	06:18
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pupnik_	install console-toolÃs	06:20
pupnik_	install console-tools	06:20
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vladovg	just apt-get	06:20
vladovg	?	06:20
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pupnik_	yeh	06:22
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vladovg	giv my the package is missing	06:22
vladovg	and ay have all aveilable packege sources on the web for maemo	06:23
pupnik_	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=25714&highlight=mkfs.ext3	06:23
pupnik_	use t.m.o. search also	06:24
vladovg	mm	06:25
vladovg	so ay need to install Bootmenu	06:25
pupnik_	i maybe was wrong sorry	06:25
pupnik_	that threas should help	06:26
vladovg	to get the ext3	06:26
vladovg	wrong fo console-tools	06:26
vladovg	?	06:26
pupnik_	sec	06:28
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pupnik_	web is so slow!	06:29
pupnik_	stealing my time...	06:29
Vulcanis	the web is always stealing your time	06:30
vladovg	hah its some true in yo words	06:32
vladovg	:)	06:32
pupnik_	vladovg, i am waiting for a search result from http://gronmayer.com/it maemo repository search	06:32
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vladovg	ay am thear wath eksakli yu search	06:34
vladovg	nothig found for ext3	06:35
vladovg	in gronmayer	06:35
pupnik_	apt-get install e2fsprogs	06:36
pupnik_	that is it, i forgot	06:36
pupnik_	cheers	06:37
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vladovg	it on qole repo	06:37
vladovg	:)	06:37
vladovg	thak yu veri mach for helping	06:38
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pupnik_	the force is strong with this... qole...	06:41
vladovg	hah worck like a charm now	06:42
vladovg	:)	06:42
pupnik_	tell us how ubuntu works for you	06:42
vladovg	maibi ay will need more help lit dis ubuntu install	06:42
pupnik_	yes	06:42
vladovg	ay did not anderstan from wear did ay get the boot menu	06:43
pupnik_	flasher or from a command on device	06:43
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pupnik_	and how are you communicating from chaucer's england?	06:45
pupnik_	"Whan that apryl, with his shores soute, the drought of march hath perced to the roote. and bathed every veyne in sweet liqueur..."	06:46
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wazd	mornin' everyone	06:47
vladovg	good morning	06:47
vladovg	pupnik_	06:47
pupnik_	moo	06:47
vladovg	wich wai is the isiest to set up boot	06:47
vladovg	menu	06:47
pupnik_	i only did it once.	06:48
samad	i am implementing camera for n900 to take a pic i can't understand csp_filter = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter");	06:48
pupnik_	csp is camera streap processor?	06:49
pupnik_	csp is camera stream processor?	06:49
samad	Maemo_5_SDK user manual uses csp_filter = gst_element_factory_make("ffmpegcolorspace", "csp_filter"); but fremental sdk camera example dont use this	06:50
samad	so i am confuse	06:50
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DerSaidin	that appears to be a filter	06:54
DerSaidin	it might not be required to apply any filters	06:54
samad	when i initialize pipeline the following error occure GST_MESSAGE_ERROR message_str = : gstbasesrc.c(2551): gst_base_src_start (): /GstPipeline:pipeline/GstV4l2CamSrc:camera_src:	06:54
samad	Check your filtered caps, if any	06:54
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vladovg	hoooh	06:57
vladovg	downloading the image now	06:57
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vladovg	ay dont see in the Installation description how to set up the boot menu	06:58
vladovg	or its not shown ever in the page	06:59
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samad	what is the video source name of N900 ??	07:13
samad	"v4l2camsrc" or ??	07:14
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vladovg	so	07:28
vladovg	ay got to the	07:28
vladovg	Last we need to install sys-env-* to finish the installation of the system, there are currently two options:	07:28
vladovg	did ay install this in diablo Xterm	07:29
vladovg	?	07:29
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vladovg	and how to boot in the Ubuntu	07:29
vladovg	after all this	07:30
vladovg	:)	07:30
vladovg	Assuming you've chosen sys-env-x, run the following while chrooted in ubuntu	07:30
vladovg	so it is in ubuntu xterm	07:30
vladovg	hmm so now ay nedd to boot up in the ubuntu	07:31
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vladovg	but how	07:31
vladovg	?	07:31
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* \|R hopes that some next update to Maemo will scrap busybox for the real thing now that we will have at least 32GB!		07:35
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vladovg	some one	07:37
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* brbrbr is away: I'm busy		07:49
* brbrbr is back (gone 00:00:06)		07:50
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* GeneralAntilles bemoans Comcast.		07:54
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Macer	n900 in 10 days?	08:00
Macer	is that rumor true?	08:00
Macer	they are releasing in 10 days	08:00
tigert	you'll know the answer in ... 10 days! ;)	08:03
GeneralAntilles	Macer, if you can catch tigert you might be able to get it out of him. :P	08:04
tigert	i am too lazy to read those powerpoints anyway ;)	08:04
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Macer	haha	08:22
* Macer already has his debit card ready		08:22
Macer	i will buy one a couple weeks afterwards	08:22
Macer	because i got a touchbook and preordering will never be an option ever again :)	08:23
Stskeeps	that long wait?	08:25
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RST38h	Chinese bureaucrats are battling each other for the right to regulate World of Warcraft. They hope to gain the political clout and the revenue that comes along with controlling a new industry with potential for explosive growth.	08:43
RST38h	Hohoho	08:43
brbrbr	move to point blank ;)	08:44
brbrbr	or Eve	08:45
brbrbr	from weak democracy to complete dictatorship ;)	08:45
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Jaffa	Morning, all	08:51
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luke-jr	brbrbr: democracy? when did China cease to be communism?	08:55
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brbrbr	why you not ask, what to order turned USA himself, starting exploiting concntration camps labor in 198x ? p.s. let alone "free economical zomes" eupemerism to politicians	08:57
brbrbr	sucking blood from [already overopressed]countrises is not good exmaple for other contries, IMO. and no, i can't call this DENOCRACY	08:57
brbrbr	stop blocking Veimar-Vennic fix! let Americans work for americans and communists lay in own shit	08:59
Stskeeps	O_o	09:00
vladovg	can some one show mi how to config boot menu	09:01
vladovg	to boot up ubuntu	09:02
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* RST38h did not expect to trigger a tantrum		09:03
luke-jr	brbrbr: wtf are you talking about?	09:07
luke-jr	America was never a democracy, either.	09:07
brbrbr	AMerica was pawn of same circles , whose made USSR and some other "events"	09:08
brbrbr	point is there is no such thing as "democracy"	09:08
brbrbr	its like "good" and "Evil" concept	09:08
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brbrbr	and work same way. in people's hearts	09:08
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brbrbr	and exploited too. sadly	09:08
* Stskeeps gets more coffee		09:09
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* Stskeeps glances at laptops to buy		09:12
Stskeeps	lenovo still decent quality? :P	09:13
RST38h	Nooooo	09:14
RST38h	AVOID.	09:14
luke-jr	LOL	09:14
Stskeeps	well my wife's laptop has been through so much abuse :P	09:15
Stskeeps	RST38h: what would you recommend then?	09:15
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Stskeeps	and no, not a nokia booklet.	09:15
Stskeeps	:P	09:15
luke-jr	Stskeeps: not a N900?	09:15
luke-jr	see, even you agree the N900 does not satisfy what is needed!	09:15
Stskeeps	i have a loaner n900 and will buy one	09:15
Stskeeps	luke-jr: i need to do a lot of cross-compilation and n900 isn't entirely good for that :P	09:16
luke-jr	Stskeeps: ssh somewhere	09:17
RST38h	Sts: I am buying Toshiba Porteges	09:17
RST38h	Sts: They are pretty decent, and the hardware is dumb enough to use generic drivers	09:17
Stskeeps	luke-jr: when dealing with 400+ mb images to transfer, sshing isn't an option..	09:17
RST38h	Sts: People say HP is ok, although not all models	09:17
Stskeeps	yeah but with a lot of crapware on it..	09:18
Stskeeps	not that i'm not going to install linux anyway	09:19
RST38h	Sts: They all come with crapware, the question is whether you can remove it or not	09:19
luke-jr	Stskeeps: rsync while it builds	09:19
RST38h	Sts: Lenovo's crapware cannot be easily removed as you won't be able to use some of the hardware if you remove it	09:19
Stskeeps	dell is something i want to avoid though.. i am sure it's mishandling of the fan made me unable to have children	09:20
RST38h	Sts: Toshibas can be cleaned up with few ill effects, usually.	09:20
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Stskeeps	basically i just need a workhorse that sits in a corner and has usb keyboard, mouse and screen connected :P	09:20
dmj7261	Linux is the ultimate anti-crapware	09:20
RST38h	Sts: What is your target size/weight?	09:21
Stskeeps	weight is not too important.. less than 4 kg :P	09:21
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: literally?	09:21
RST38h	Sts: Maybe go for a Shuttle?	09:22
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Stskeeps	RST38h: that box pc thing? no, need to take it travelling :P	09:22
RST38h	ok	09:22
* Stskeeps ponders mbp.. :P		09:22
RST38h	Dell XPS looks usable	09:22
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RST38h	Sony has got the same problems with crapware as Lenovo, but may have got a bit better now, not sure.	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, ritzy. :P	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, but not worth it unless you're actually going to run OS X.	09:23
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vladovg	cd /etc/bootmenu.d	09:27
vladovg	and ay am stuck	09:28
vladovg	ITEM_NAME="Jaunty on internal card, p3"	09:28
vladovg	ITEM_ID="Jaunty on internal, p3"	09:28
vladovg	ITEM_DEVICE="mmcblk0p3"	09:28
vladovg	ITEM_MODULES="mbcache jbd ext3"	09:28
vladovg	ITEM_FSTYPE="ext3"	09:28
vladovg	ITEM_FSOPTIONS="noatime,ro"	09:28
vladovg	ITEM_LINUXRC="linuxrc"	09:28
vladovg	how to put all this in the directori	09:28
Stskeeps	make a file jaunty.item	09:28
Stskeeps	and put that in there	09:28
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Stskeeps	hm, guess it would be handy to have a machine with SD reader	09:29
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vladovg	how to mace the file	09:29
vladovg	ay am a big noob to unix	09:30
Stskeeps	vi? :P	09:30
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vladovg	my ubunto sits on external sd	09:36
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vladovg	did ay have to change the Jaunty on internal card, p3	09:36
Stskeeps	instead of mmcblk0 write ${EXT_CARD}	09:36
vladovg	to Jaunty on external card, p3	09:36
vladovg	ok	09:36
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vladovg	but to live the p3 (partision3)	09:38
vladovg	?	09:38
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vladovg	and how to save the file	09:42
vladovg	?	09:42
Stskeeps	:w	09:42
vladovg	:)	09:42
vladovg	its not funni	09:43
vladovg	:)	09:43
Stskeeps	i'm not kidding	09:43
Stskeeps	escape, :w	09:43
Stskeeps	:wq	09:43
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Stskeeps	ooh. a shop that allows me to search for serial port ability	09:44
Stskeeps	i'm sold	09:44
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RST38h	heh	09:49
RST38h	Are there any laptops with rs232 left?	09:49
Stskeeps	seemingily	09:50
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pupnik_	RST38h: do you dislike lenovo compared to ibm thinkpads, or compared to competitor notebooks?	09:53
RST38h	pupnik: Both	09:54
RST38h	pupnik: I disliked IBM Thinkpads for ugly, heavy design and low quality screens, but they were at least sturdy and reliable	09:54
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RST38h	pupnik: Lenovo is more or less the same design, just cost-cut by a bunch of Chinese	09:55
samad	what is the video source name VIDEO_SRC of N900 ? any help ?	09:55
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RST38h	pupnik: It is no longer sturdy or reliable, made of cheap plastic now, etc	09:55
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johnx	RST38h, some are for sure. they still make decent one though	09:56
RST38h	johnx: I have seen better and worse ones, but in general they look like those chinese "N95s" and "N900s" to me	09:56
pupnik_	samad the v4l device name?	09:56
samad	yes	09:57
pupnik_	i havent felt enough laptios but most feel like toys compared to thinkpads	09:57
johnx	RST38h, I couldn't care less what they look like. the reality is the x series at least is still reliable and comes with an awesome keyboard	09:58
RST38h	oold thinkpads, yes	09:58
pupnik_	i could google for yiu, or wat a sandwich	09:58
RST38h	new thinkpads are not the same	09:58
pupnik_	eat	09:58
RST38h	johnx: I have to deal with T series at work. And it sucks.	09:58
johnx	RST38h, and I've gotten some good hands on time with the x200 and I'm sold	09:59
RST38h	johnx: I am almost ready to drop mine to the floor, just to get HP as replacement	09:59
johnx	but yeah, the difference between ibm's handling of the thinkpad line was that they refused to have a "budget" model	09:59
johnx	but lenovo is putting together a whole spectrum	09:59
pupnik_	hp/compaq tc4200 / 4400 look interesting against x41t / x61t	09:59
RST38h	johnx: Not buying any of 'em	10:00
* RST38h is used to Porteges now		10:00
johnx	RST38h, I'm not selling you one :)	10:00
johnx	if I'm selling you one you'll see the little "the following IRC message is a paid advertisement for Lenovo (R) ThinkPads" message scroll by	10:01
pupnik_	anybody here used several x-series thinkpads?	10:01
pupnik_	i heat x6? with IPS display is nice	10:01
pupnik_	hear	10:01
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vladovg	hm my again	10:04
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vladovg	after mace the jaunty and editet	10:04
vladovg	its not shown in the bootloader menu	10:05
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javispedro	heya	10:56
javispedro	there's a rumour now about it being released in less than 10 days... all fansites are exploding in craze and agony	10:56
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Stskeeps	10..9..8...7...6..5..4..3..2...1..boom	10:57
Stskeeps	:P	10:57
javispedro	yes...	10:58
javispedro	less time for something 3d capable!	10:58
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javispedro	and to think I hoped the TI 3D drivers would come first :(	10:58
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javispedro	hey, the Hermes logo is cool.	11:00
javispedro	there's that quite noticeable missing alpha component in the HildonButtons though :(	11:00
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pupnik_	yes	11:01
pupnik_	ui guideline strikes?	11:02
javispedro	I guess more like a limitation of sapwood...	11:02
javispedro	(but I dunno)	11:02
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javispedro	maybe the HildonAwesomeButtons are transparent. Either way I think they befit the interface better.	11:03
pupnik_	i think the whole shebang came together nice for team maemo, and congratulations are in order.	11:03
pupnik_	javispedro - i know why the caged bird sings ;)	11:04
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javispedro	:)	11:05
javispedro	pupnik_: how's your loan? still bricked?	11:05
johnx	mmm...qt means no more sapwood, doesn't it? :D	11:05
javispedro	jonhx: unless they use QGtkStyle :evil:	11:06
johnx	Noooooooo.... does the luke skywalker fall-off-the-ledge thing	11:07
pupnik_	can i put 3.9v DC to battery for a couple hours?	11:07
pupnik_	lol	11:07
javispedro	hehe	11:07
johnx	pupnik_, what's put to it during charging?	11:07
pupnik_	dont know - apparently mine isnt getting a charge now	11:08
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johnx	charging at a fixed voltage will probably kill it in a fiery way	11:09
pupnik_	sad... if a computer needs its OS running to charge its battery	11:09
pupnik_	ok	11:09
johnx	agreed\	11:09
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javispedro	pupnik_: pity :(	11:10
pupnik_	maybe a drm feature?	11:10
johnx	ahaha...prevents you from using unauthorized electrons	11:10
javispedro	and charging in authorized countries.	11:10
pupnik_	:) no. do-not-charge-lockout	11:10
johnx	javispedro, eh. they already screwed up there by enabling charge from usb	11:11
* javispedro smells business plan		11:11
* pupnik_ smells something		11:11
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pupnik_	ah yes. i love the smell of hot rampant speculation in the morning!	11:12
* pupnik_ inhales deeply		11:12
johnx	yeah it goes like this: controlling charging through software is cheaper than having a dedicated hardware component	11:12
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pupnik_	are nokia replacement batteries delivered with charge? i can order a spare BL-5J.	11:15
johnx	they have some charge usually	11:15
johnx	maybe 40%	11:15
pupnik_	roger	11:15
javispedro	or probably	11:16
javispedro	you can take it to a nokia store and have it charged	11:16
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pupnik_	wsis the cell radio modulated by software also?	11:17
pupnik_	how	11:17
pupnik_	i dont usually see chargers for such batteries	11:17
pupnik_	but good call	11:17
javispedro	there are I'm sure	11:17
javispedro	but I guess it depends on the mood of the clerk	11:17
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* johnx sleeps		11:18
javispedro	I guess this marks the end of the night shift	11:18
javispedro	::)	11:18
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javispedro	ok, according to lwn, the n900' baseband does not use Hayes commands	11:34
javispedro	s/ok/oh	11:34
Stskeeps	no, but check cellmo-icp82-headers	11:34
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tekojo	pupnik_ what's the battery story?	11:59
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pupnik_	i think it doesnt charge	12:01
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wazd	you wouldn't fucking beleive it	12:09
wazd	No way	12:09
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wazd	It's a joke	12:09
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Stskeeps	mm?	12:10
anvith3	Any body here worked on flite	12:11
Stskeeps	wazd: army playing you again?	12:11
wazd	I came to take my release blank to send it to passport bureau and they said "you know, we think that those doctor summaries bout your health are fake and we need to investigate it"	12:13
anvith3	Flite is working on my n810 but there's a lag. Is there any text to speech voice syntesizer?	12:14
Stskeeps	wazd: russia is truely fucked up..	12:14
wazd	I just have no words to comment it	12:14
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anvith3	The lag is a good 5 seconds sometimes	12:14
Stskeeps	wazd: you should have asked on what basis	12:16
Stskeeps	and threatened to sue them :P	12:16
wazd	I asked	12:16
wazd	And threatened	12:16
wazd	The case is: 4 years stomatology doctor at the army dep was writing that I'm ok	12:17
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wazd	And now, after my pressure and independent analysis he wroteathat I'm not	12:18
wazd	And they said that this is actually my problem, not theirs	12:19
Stskeeps	i would sue at this point :P	12:19
wazd	Bitches	12:19
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wazd	After I said that I'm gonn sue them they told that I'm inadequate and they will call police and psycho	12:20
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Stskeeps	psycho? nothing insane in wanting to get out of the army :P	12:20
wazd	I said that I just passed psycho - I'm ok)	12:21
wazd	He threatened that it can be changed	12:21
wazd	Now I'm waiting for my doctor to get a copy of my diagnosis to be safe	12:22
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wazd	But it's the most ridiculous fuck up I've EVER faced on this planet	12:23
pupnik_	anvith3: that is longer than my delay on 770	12:24
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pupnik_	flite on 770 managed short three word bursts with < 1 second delay	12:24
Stskeeps	wazd: so if you suddenly disappear it's cos they took you to bootcamp?	12:25
pupnik_	what length input text?	12:25
anvith3	For one or 2 words it gave about 2 sec	12:26
anvith3	Longer sentence takes longer	12:26
pupnik_	wazd, that is the nature of government	12:26
wazd	Stskeeps: more probably I've blown up their office with expllosive belt	12:26
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anvith3	I installed the flite-multi.deb from penguin*'s website	12:27
RST38h	wazd: AGAIN?	12:27
anvith3	I dont remember his full id	12:27
RST38h	Noooo not again?	12:27
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pupnik_	be smart wazd	12:27
wazd	RST38h: yes, yes :D	12:27
pupnik_	penguinbaut?	12:28
pupnik_	bait	12:28
anvith3	Yes	12:28
anvith3	Yes	12:28
anvith3	:)	12:28
anvith3	Is there any other package that is optimized	12:28
pupnik_	do you have browser open?	12:28
pupnik_	memory full?	12:29
anvith3	I have an idea of developing a text to sppech app	12:29
anvith3	No	12:29
anvith3	Memory i'll have to chech	12:29
pupnik_	i look here	12:29
anvith3	Check	12:29
wazd	RST38h: dunno what to do, laugh or cry	12:29
anvith3	How do i do that?	12:29
anvith3	Check the memory i mean	12:29
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Stskeeps	wazd: you can write a book about it	12:30
pupnik_	free or top	12:30
wazd	Stskeeps: yeah, I have exactly same feeling bout it))	12:31
wazd	But it would be in science fiction category	12:31
pupnik_	i do not have a flite build here. another user wanted faster text to speech. his company made some custom health care application	12:31
anvith3	Hmmm	12:31
wazd	Cause it's just impossible to happen in the real life	12:31
anvith3	Do u remember who that was	12:32
tekojo	pupnik_ does the device boot up if connected to charger?	12:32
anvith3	How do u check the memory in use and free memory?	12:32
pupnik_	anvith3: problem is the sentence parser needs to read whole sentence to decide how to speak the text, and i think it builds the whold output at once	12:32
anvith3	Yes	12:33
wazd	It should be started with bohemian rhapsody initial words	12:33
pupnik_	tekojo: tries to then hangs	12:33
anvith3	That much i understood	12:33
pupnik_	so Ã¶aybe if you can handle robot volice...	12:33
pupnik_	it can read phoneme-by-phoneme	12:33
wazd	Is this the real life, is this just fantasy, caught in a landslide and no escape from reality	12:34
pupnik_	they will not let me go!	12:34
pupnik_	no! no! no!	12:34
wazd	Yeah yeah))	12:34
RST38h	wazd: Get a lawyer.	12:35
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wazd	Just gotta get out, just gotta get right out of here :D	12:35
pupnik_	and the best part wazd - those jerks actually have people worshipping them. lol	12:35
RST38h	wazd: Although I guess that bringing them a shitload of paper showing that they have previously cleared you, with huge stamp marks, will do the trick	12:35
RST38h	They may not believe the doctors, but they have to believe their own paperwork	12:36
wazd	I aleady shown em THEIR paperwork	12:36
anvith3	Pupnik_ how do i check the memory usage.	12:36
wazd	And they don't beleive it	12:37
Stskeeps	wazd: try to hit another guy in the office when the irritating one isn't there? :P	12:37
RST38h	wazd: Ask them to call whoever this paperwork originated from	12:37
RST38h	Stskeeps <-- talks sense	12:37
wazd	I just... meh	12:39
wazd	~ping	12:39
infobot	~pong	12:39
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wazd	there's no other guy	12:39
wazd	No sure if he's a guy, I think he's a fag	12:40
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Stskeeps	RST38h: best way around bureaucracy is grabbing someone nicer	12:44
Stskeeps	:P	12:44
RST38h	wazd: "...in the bad sense of the word"	12:44
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w00t	wazd: if i were you, i'd go postal	12:46
w00t	shoot some people, etc.	12:46
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wazd	Damn, I'm so tired	12:50
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wazd	The better you are in your life, the worse shit you get in return	12:54
mgedmin	reverse karma	12:55
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Stskeeps	wazd: it's like with the n900. pain while you wait, excellent when you get it	12:56
Stskeeps	:P	12:56
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wazd	Hope in the end I'll get my answers	12:56
wazd	Hah)	12:56
wazd	Pain while you wait, pain when you don't get it -that's my case :D	12:57
w00t	^ :P	12:57
wazd	Ok, I'm outta hotspot and my phone's dead, so later guys	12:58
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ccooke	Morning, all	13:08
mgedmin	N900 alarms have a certain flaw:	13:09
mgedmin	when the sound sounds and the dialog pops up, if you ignore it for a few minutes, you're golden	13:09
auenf	they wake you up?	13:09
mgedmin	the alarm won't be repeated in the 10-minute snooze period	13:10
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mgedmin	when you finally wake up at 10 am, you'll see the alarm dialog on the n900 still displaying 7:21 or something like that, and patiently waiting for you to press either 'snooze' or 'stop'	13:10
ShadowJK	ha	13:11
auenf	goto bed earlier?	13:11
ShadowJK	doesn't help :)	13:11
pupnik_	N900 push: Fire-ant garage alarm assistant for N900.	13:12
pupnik_	After 3rd snooze, garage opens and fire-ants come out	13:12
pupnik_	With fire-alarm sound effect to irritate them.	13:12
pupnik_	someday i will have an idea so far off the edge of 'bad' it will wrap around to 'good'	13:13
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pupnik_	i hope	13:13
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RST38h	Wow! Bug #5343 has been fixed!	13:23
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5343 "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling	13:23
mgedmin	it's been fixed for ages, I understand, but we won't see the fix for a week yet	13:24
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_\|Nix\|_	Hey! I'm really frustrated. I've just finished setting up scratchbox and the SDK using the installer scripts, and now on the FREMANTLE_X86 target I get "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set" for everything.	13:26
_\|Nix\|_	WTF?! Of course it's not set! It's X86!	13:26
_\|Nix\|_	I don't get it.	13:26
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_\|Nix\|_	This has been killing me all day!	13:26
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Stskeeps	what OS?	13:28
RST38h	mgedmin: Not true. It has been fixed during WW44	13:28
RST38h	Nix: You may want to set it explicitely	13:29
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Stskeeps	RST38h: build hildon-desktop from gitorious and you have it	13:30
Stskeeps	i think	13:30
RST38h	Sts" or upgrade to the latest version from the sdk repo?	13:30
Stskeeps	they don't update sdk repo yet afaik	13:31
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RST38h	Khertan reported a few updates there	13:31
_\|Nix\|_	RST38h: Set it to what? It doesn't need CPU transparency. It's x86. That's what I find so frustrating.	13:31
RST38h	Nix: I dunno muchabout sb1 but it probably has some neutral setting for that	13:31
Stskeeps	is it just me or is repository.* down? :P	13:31
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Stskeeps	RST38h: maybe. but gitorious hildon-desktop building is not a bad bet either	13:32
Stskeeps	:P	13:32
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_\|Nix\|_	RST38h: I've tried that. can't find any.	13:34
_\|Nix\|_	This is really frustrating ...	13:34
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RST38h	no shit...	13:34
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zaheer_	when building a package	13:43
zaheer_	fakeroot debian/rules clean	13:44
zaheer_	test -x debian/rules	13:44
zaheer_	make: *** [testdir] Error 1	13:44
zaheer_	how do i debug that?	13:44
zaheer_	debian/rules exists	13:44
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RST38h	run make with a verbose key?	13:45
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zaheer_	rules includes /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/gnome.mk	13:47
zaheer_	but that doesn't exist in my scratchbox	13:47
zaheer_	actually i lie	13:48
zaheer_	it does	13:48
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zaheer_	well i'm running dpkg-buildpackage not make	13:49
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RST38h	it runs make at some point	13:50
zaheer_	chmod a+x debian/rules i think is the key	13:52
zaheer_	awesome now it is building :)	13:53
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* Stskeeps wonders how osgartoolkit works on maemo		14:04
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* zaheer_ just sent gstreamer0.10-plugins-ffmpeg to the autobuilder :)		14:06
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bilboed-pi	zaheer_, autobuilder ? :)	14:09
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zaheer_	bilboed-pi, maemo autobuilder	14:09
zaheer_	bilboed-pi, if it succeeds it'll be in extras-devel	14:09
bilboed-pi	neat	14:09
zaheer_	should quieten down people that want vlc because it plays everything :)	14:10
range	:)	14:10
range	Stupid thread on tmo, though.	14:10
zaheer_	bilboed-pi, do you know if our default configure flags turn off optimisations on gst-ffmpeg?	14:11
zaheer_	it'd be nice to enable the arm neon ones for maemo if they do..	14:11
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zaheer_	range, yah people on both sides of the argument there a little over-enthusiastic :)	14:12
bilboed-pi	zaheer_, it shouldn't, no	14:12
zaheer_	bilboed-pi, cool	14:12
zaheer_	i removed debian's thing for using system ffmpeg however	14:12
bilboed-pi	zaheer_, but you might want to bump up to a more recent ffmpeg revision for neon optimisations	14:12
zaheer_	bilboed-pi, yah this build is just so far to check if i can actually modify a debian pkg and push into maemo, then i investigate the optimisation possibilities...i used stock 0.10.9 gst-ffmpeg for this	14:14
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aol	I need to compile qt to N900 any pointers where to start?	14:17
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Andy80	hi all	14:19
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zaheer_	aol, look at qt.gitorious.org	14:19
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mihu	I'm using latest Maemo SDK 5.0. I wanted to look at package hildon-thumbnail and noticed that it used libplayback. I tried "apt-get source libplayback-1-0" but it says "Unable to find a source package for libplayback". http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_nokia-binaries_explicit_armel/libplayback-1-0/0.5-21+0m5 shows that it's in the "Nokia binaries" repo. There are no sources for this repo, or?	14:20
Andy80	is there any way to automatically add a counter of elements present in a wiki table? in particular it would be useful here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend	14:20
Stskeeps	mihu: correct, closed source	14:20
mihu	Stskeeps: That's bad. I'm fiddling with the gstreamer installation on my N900 and things like gst-video-thumbnailerd always come into my way.	14:21
Andy80	isn't gstreamer already installed on N900?	14:22
VDVsx	Andy80, like 1- name , 2 -name ?	14:23
mihu	Andy80: It is. But I'm porting some GStreamer based application and play around with the system a little bit. On the lowlevel side.	14:23
aol	zaheer_: ok, so I just clone the repository, and then just compile?	14:24
Stskeeps	mihu: you are perfectly allowed to use libplayback-dev and libplayback though	14:24
Stskeeps	it's in the nokia-binaries repo	14:24
zaheer_	aol, you probably want to compile a branch for fremantle	14:24
aol	hm true	14:24
Andy80	Andy80: yes... just to have an automatic sum of people who add their name to the list	14:25
mihu	Stskeeps: I wanted to have a look how libplayback interacts with gstreamer and if this is affected by the changes I do to my GStreamer installation.	14:25
VDVsx	Andy80, put # in each entry	14:25
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mihu	Stskeeps: I don't plan to use it.	14:26
VDVsx	~qt	14:26
infobot	somebody said qt was TrollTech's QT library, available at http://www.trolltech.com	14:26
Stskeeps	mihu: make a good argument for open sourcing it and submit a bug.. help us prioritise	14:26
VDVsx	~qt-maemo	14:26
Andy80	VDVsx: uhm... not working... it just write #	14:26
VDVsx	infobot, Alzheimer again ? :P	14:27
VDVsx	Andy80, let me try :)	14:27
mgedmin	my tea!	14:27
Andy80	VDVsx: ok :)	14:27
Andy80	VDVsx: just do one, if you don't have time, I'll finish the rest :)	14:28
* mgedmin thanks VDVsx for the reminder		14:28
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VDVsx	Andy80, wow, what a mixture of elements in that table :P not working due to the table proprieties, I guess	14:32
zaheer_	when is the maemo site/infra going to be upgraded again?	14:33
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Andy80	VDVsx: ok, it doesn't matter, just a tentative :)	14:33
Andy80	zaheer_: you mean midgard or servers?	14:34
zaheer_	servers	14:34
zaheer_	webpages that query the builder take hours to load :)	14:34
Andy80	I did read something about "november/december" but I really don't have any confirmation	14:34
Andy80	anyway it's a known issue	14:35
VDVsx	Andy80, well, try to figure out comparing to the summit agenda, there's a example the LT's row ;)	14:35
zaheer_	for anyone in london without an N900: NokiaFlagshipUK Pssst.. Have you heard? We've popped a few N900's under the counter at the Flagship Store. Come & have a play http://bit.ly/1VfR2c	14:35
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Stskeeps	w00t: ^	14:37
aol	hm how do I now compile the FREMANTLE branch of qt	14:37
aol	I'm able to start compiling with ./configure but I dont want to continue unless I'm sure I'm getting what I want first :)	14:38
RST38h	Where do I get Maemo5 themes at the moment?	14:38
VDVsx	aol, http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt	14:38
aol	ah, thanks!	14:39
lardman	"morning"	14:39
lcuk	zaheer_, facelink comes up blank!	14:39
lcuk	facebook link rather	14:39
lcuk	mornin lardman	14:40
VDVsx	aol, in case you need more help, the folks in #qt-maemo are willing to help you, ehehhe	14:40
lardman	what's the standard way to release a debian package from an SVN repo? Create a tag/branch with the correct dir name and package that? or extract the head and do the packaging manually outside the tree? etc.?	14:40
aol	VDVsx: or not ? :)	14:41
mgedmin	btw when microb fails to load a page due to connectivty issues, its menu has no 'reload' button and I have tap the address bar, slide out the kbd, and press enter	14:41
VDVsx	aol, nah ;)	14:41
zaheer_	lcuk, ouch let me fix it	14:42
* w00t looks		14:42
lcuk	which store is it? the regent street one?	14:42
lcuk	hey w00t	14:42
w00t	heya	14:43
w00t	says so, yes	14:43
* w00t wonders if he can arrange to get to london tomorrow.		14:43
zaheer_	lcuk, yep regent street one	14:44
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zaheer_	http://www.new.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=184564843816&id=66886927437	14:44
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zaheer_	is the link it expands to	14:44
VDVsx	zaheer_, is that the one near to the apple store ? :)	14:44
zaheer_	VDVsx, yep	14:45
zaheer_	also lucasr mentioned lhr store has one in store too	14:45
zaheer_	lhr t5 that is	14:45
zaheer_	for anyone travelling out of lhr t5	14:45
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lcuk	lardman, what do you mean	14:47
lcuk	the packaging is normally just a debian folder isnt it	14:47
RST38h	"Why You Should Think Twice Before Dating An iPhone User" (C)Gizmodo	14:47
lardman	the dir needs to have the right name afaik, e.g. mbarcode-0.0.1	14:47
lcuk	zaheer_, have you also shoved a couple of Rihannas under the desk too?	14:48
zaheer_	lcuk, no did i paste wrong link again? :)	14:49
lcuk	lardman, dpkg-buildpackage gives the name as a warning, what do you mean by release tho, actually making a garage release directly from it or just for you to build package with locally	14:49
lcuk	lol zaheer_ no	14:49
lcuk	but make sure Rihanna gets to play too	14:49
zaheer_	disclaimer: i don't work for nokia or any of their retail stores :P	14:49
VDVsx	lcuk, so, there's also a Nokia flagship store in Manchester ? :P	14:49
w00t	lcuk: I was just managing to totally misinterpret that as "make sure Rihanna gets played with too"	14:50
lardman	lcuk: Garage release/extras-devel	14:50
w00t	you can imagine the resulting confusion.	14:50
RST38h	Yahoooooo! Bug #6039 has been fixed in Git!	14:50
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6039 Hanging application menu requires system reboot	14:50
lcuk	VDVsx, yes i know!	14:51
zaheer_	RST38h, yes i look forward to the release so i can get rid of the most annoying bug on my n900	14:51
VDVsx	lcuk, there's ? wow	14:51
* lardman is hopeful that the tap/type through the app just after you open it will be fixed soon too		14:51
* lcuk cant wait for barcamp manchester this weekend		14:51
RST38h	VDVsx: If we are lucky, they may fix the PA bug! =)	14:51
lardman	what's barcamp?	14:52
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mgedmin	irritation #17: tap a text field, then slide open keyboard --> on screen you see the vkb showing up then disappearing	14:52
lcuk	there are a couple of tickets available if people wanna come	14:52
lcuk	lardman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp	14:52
lcuk	an unconference	14:52
RST38h	mgedmin: Ah don't be a wikipedian	14:52
mgedmin	the lag makes it an irritation	14:52
VDVsx	RST38h, seems that they are in bugfixing mode now :)	14:52
lcuk	attendee assigned couple of days of random talks	14:52
lardman	lcuk: does it have a topic?	14:52
RST38h	mgedmin: Let them fix the language switch on the physical keyboard first	14:53
lcuk	users make the topic	14:53
mgedmin	I wish I had a language I could switch to ...	14:53
lcuk	people from different backgrounds choose topics	14:53
lcuk	put em on a big wall and talk about stuff	14:53
RST38h	VDVsx: Have been for more than a week judging from the number of int-* bugs IDs attached to public trackers	14:53
lardman	lcuk: so I could head over and chat to people about the finer details of finite difference equation modelling using CUDA?	14:53
lcuk	some very different ones when i went to london	14:53
lcuk	if you wanted yeah	14:53
lcuk	and join in with other things	14:53
lardman	but would there be anyone who knows about it was what I'm asking...	14:54
RST38h	mgedmin: Well, if Lithuanian fails you, you can always default to Russian	14:54
* RST38h smiles sadistically =)		14:54
lardman	so there is a general topic - Linux programming, etc	14:54
lcuk	at the london one, someone spoke about using bbc micro as a church organ!	14:54
lardman	oh right	14:54
lcuk	tech people mostly	14:54
RST38h	mgedmin: Seriously though, no specific Lithuanian keyboard layout?	14:54
lcuk	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33556	14:54
lardman	but computer related then?	14:54
mgedmin	RST38h, worse: in older OSes I could at least enter ąčęėįšųūž with the vkb;in Maemo 5 there's no way at all to input them	14:55
mgedmin	also, they removed support for windows-1257, which means I cannot read 25% of my email	14:55
zaheer_	gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg 0.10.9-1 OK	14:55
lardman	ah yes, I remember reading that thread now	14:55
lcuk	at the IBM one, yeah it was, i dunno about this one	14:55
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lcuk	come on up for the day	14:55
lardman	no time I'm afraid	14:56
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RST38h	mgedmin: afaik keyboard layouts can be easily added, there is a sample package in extras too	14:56
mgedmin	RST38h, woot!	14:56
mgedmin	but I don't believe you :)	14:56
derf	I'd rather have a Compose key.	14:56
mgedmin	I think timeless discovered that the names of the layouts are hardcoded in some .so file	14:56
RST38h	derf: I guess the top left key can be considered a compose key.	14:56
RST38h	derf: And I think there is even a bug for that :)	14:56
mgedmin	it actually is Multi_key in the xkb file	14:57
RST38h	mgedmin: Oh.	14:57
* timeless_mbp looks up		14:57
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timeless_mbp	the names are definitely hardcoded in a .so file	14:57
* RST38h considers the best way to hack in the win1257 support		14:58
timeless_mbp	i didn't check the sources to see if it has extensibility points	14:58
zaheer_	ukeyboard added arabic layout	14:58
timeless_mbp	zaheer_: as a soft layout or hard layout?	14:58
zaheer_	soft	14:58
RST38h	mgedmin: You know, the easiest way would probably be by making the mail server convert it into utf8	14:58
timeless_mbp	we're talking about hard	14:58
zaheer_	sorry	14:58
timeless_mbp	and if mgedmin wasn't clear about that, i'm sorry	14:58
zaheer_	i'll go back to sleep :)	14:58
timeless_mbp	it's 5am here	14:59
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mgedmin	I want three things actually: hw keyboard layout for lt, dead keys for accents used in lithuanian in the fn+ctrl popup, and vkb layout for the fullscreen vkb	15:01
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serenity	hi	15:01
serenity	is there a wikipage about writing widgets?	15:01
RST38h	vkb layout should be doable right away	15:01
mgedmin	cool	15:02
RST38h	A moment, let me check the package name	15:02
VDVsx	serenity, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide	15:02
mgedmin	shame that I don't actually like the vkb...	15:02
RST38h	Well, something is better than nothing	15:02
mgedmin	true	15:03
RST38h	The best vkb would be a semitransparent one	15:03
serenity	ah, thanks VDVsx	15:03
RST38h	But not gonna happen any time soon	15:03
mgedmin	any Conboy developers ever played with the vkb? it's not pretty	15:03
mgedmin	bullets interfere in interesting ways	15:03
RST38h	mgedmin: I am getting impression that win1257 can be accommodate by a locale	15:04
mgedmin	RST38h, iconv doesn't support it	15:05
mgedmin	which means modest cannot display emails using it	15:05
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mgedmin	and if the emails in question use base64, all I see is [?] instead of the body	15:05
RST38h	Ok, let us check the kbd first...	15:05
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RST38h	mgedmin: http://maemo.org/packages/view/ukeyboard/ and http://maemo.org/packages/view/ukbdcreator/	15:06
RST38h	mgedmin: Notice that it covers BOTH virtual and physical keyboards.	15:06
mgedmin	nice	15:06
timeless_mbp	RST38h: does it actually result in an extra row in the hg keyboard picker?	15:07
RST38h	Now, gotta find how charmaps are added, can't believe iconv is not extendable	15:07
mgedmin	I always knew that if I was lazy, somebody else would solve my problems	15:07
timeless_mbp	iconv mostly sucks	15:07
timeless_mbp	but in some cases it's extensible	15:07
mgedmin	there was once more-gconv-modules which kinda used to extend iconv, if you set one environment variable	15:07
timeless_mbp	often by just building w/ more modules and shipping the missing ones	15:07
mgedmin	it doesn't appear to work on maemo 5	15:07
timeless_mbp	heh	15:07
mgedmin	what would be needed: more .so files in /usr/lib/gconv/, and some modification of /usr/lib/gconv/gconv-modules	15:08
RST38h	libiconv 1.9 supports win1257	15:08
mgedmin	hey, why can't I ssh to my n900 any more?	15:09
timeless_mbp	did its ip change? :)	15:09
mgedmin	dunno, I use mdns	15:10
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mgedmin	RST38h, what's libiconv?	15:11
RST38h	mgedmin: You know, given the list of encodings supported by iconv 2.5, you can probably file a bug for 1257 support	15:11
RST38h	A library iconv is based on	15:11
mgedmin	iconv is part of libc	15:11
RST38h	mgedmin: Not on FreeBSD :)	15:11
mgedmin	well, gconv is the implementation of iconv, shipped as part of glibc, and used in all linux distros, including maemo	15:11
mgedmin	it supports cp1252 and a bazillion other encodings	15:12
mgedmin	it's just disabled in maemo 5 for some reason	15:12
mgedmin	I've already filed a bug, a few weeks ago	15:12
timeless_mbp	the reason we disable stuff	15:12
RST38h	mgedmin: There is no reason not to resolve it	15:12
timeless_mbp	is because it eats space	15:12
timeless_mbp	and no one can defend shipping it	15:12
mgedmin	bug 5303	15:12
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5303 Enable cp1257 support in iconv	15:12
RST38h	mgedmin: 1251-1254 are al supported why not 1257?	15:12
timeless_mbp	the browser team looked at iconv, found the impl on maemo incredibly insufficient, and went back to nice and safe uconv	15:13
timeless_mbp	(gecko's converter)	15:13
mgedmin	timeless_mbp, ooh, I'm intrigued	15:13
timeless_mbp	remember that code page conversions are basically incredibly huge wastes of space	15:13
mgedmin	can you tell us more?	15:13
timeless_mbp	they're basically data blobs	15:13
timeless_mbp	and if the target market didn't seem to have any need for it	15:13
RST38h	1257 is hardly a huge waste of space, it covers 127 characters	15:14
timeless_mbp	then it's very hard to justify retaining big blobs that waste space	15:14
mgedmin	RST38h, CP1257.so is 12K on my laptop	15:14
timeless_mbp	RST38h: historically, chinese and friends are teh big offenders	15:14
timeless_mbp	but 127c they may be, if they cost 12k, that's not 1k	15:14
RST38h	For example, that glibc-based iconv supports a bunch of OSF* conversions that nobody has heard about probably since DEC times	15:14
timeless_mbp	and it probably doesn't compress well	15:14
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timeless_mbp	"that" == ?	15:15
w00t	it doesn't really matter how much it is, if there's very little to no use case for it, then it makes sense to trim it and stick something more desired there in the space left	15:15
timeless_mbp	anyway, w00t understands the reason	15:15
timeless_mbp	again, i don't care	15:15
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timeless_mbp	the browser team ran into this problem and worked around it	15:16
timeless_mbp	plus we didn't want to have to fight to maintain it	15:16
mgedmin	ah, so the problem is lack of coverage	15:16
mgedmin	and not other implementation details	15:16
timeless_mbp	?	15:16
RST38h	w00t: ~7 million people	15:16
timeless_mbp	depends on who and what	15:16
mgedmin	when you mentioned iconv was incredibly insufficient, I assumed dunno, algorithmic reasons	15:16
timeless_mbp	RST38h: in a world with what, 5 trillion people?	15:16
mgedmin	lack of detection, error recovery, things like that	15:16
mgedmin	dunno why I assumed that	15:16
RST38h	iconv -l shows support for some encodings that are not even used by 7 million people	15:17
timeless_mbp	the question is whether those 7 million people are likely to want to buy our product	15:17
timeless_mbp	if they are, then you have a much better business case	15:17
timeless_mbp	if they aren't, then you don't	15:17
timeless_mbp	it's very simple	15:17
timeless_mbp	and if you think there are space savings to be had, file a distinct bug for a single converter and explain why no one we currently or are likely to try to sell to would care if it was removed	15:18
timeless_mbp	(don't file too many at a time, but if you get one win, file another)	15:18
RST38h	How many of potential Nokia customers are going to use OSF00010001 encoding?	15:18
RST38h	What about OSF00010002 encoding?	15:19
RST38h	These are all supported though	15:19
mgedmin	noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! the app-menu bug strikes again	15:19
mgedmin	I cannot play with ukbdcreator	15:19
RST38h	Ha ha ha ha ha	15:19
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: eh?	15:19
RST38h	you can invoke it from the command line	15:19
timeless_mbp	which bug is this?	15:20
timeless_mbp	(bugs.maemo.org url)	15:20
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* timeless_mbp sighs		15:21
mgedmin	bug 6039, wasn't it?	15:21
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6039 Hanging application menu requires system reboot	15:21
timeless_mbp	osf00010001 is not googlable	15:21
mgedmin	no, that's not it	15:22
mgedmin	bug 5713	15:22
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5713 Cannot scroll application menu	15:22
mgedmin	which is a dupe of bug 5343	15:23
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5343 "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling	15:23
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mgedmin	btw, RST38h, my comment about 5343 being fixed "ages ago" was prompted by this comment: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5343#c1	15:23
povbot	Bug 5343: "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling	15:23
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RST38h	mgedmin: 10-13 is something like WW43	15:25
timeless_mbp	andre__: btw	15:25
timeless_mbp	your explanation of week numbers is probably dangerous	15:25
timeless_mbp	there's a form of branching going on	15:25
RST38h	which correlates with WW44 date given later in comments	15:25
timeless_mbp	which in theory means that perhaps you're explanation won't be right :(	15:26
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andre__	timeless_mbp, yeah. and i wonder if i'm allowed to state something about potential branchings in public :-/	15:26
andre__	but that should be only a problem for one or two weeks afaik	15:26
RST38h	too late, andre	15:26
* timeless_mbp ponders		15:26
timeless_mbp	RST38h: no, the fault is mine, not his	15:27
timeless_mbp	he didn't state it	15:27
RST38h	and we know about branchings anyway, Intel works similarly	15:27
timeless_mbp	i think the following are known:	15:27
timeless_mbp	1. the shipping version doesn't exist	15:27
timeless_mbp	(vaguely obvious, otherwise, we'd have shipped)	15:27
andre__	timeless_mbp, i also thought about this issue, but so far i only see a very small problem currently	15:27
timeless_mbp	2. we're working on a service release	15:27
timeless_mbp	logical conclusion: someone is somehow branching	15:28
Jaffa	And someone's working on Harmattan ;-)	15:28
timeless_mbp	super-branch	15:28
* timeless_mbp wonders when that leaked		15:28
RST38h	Jaffa: Not until we start seeing FIXED-IN-HARMATTAN resolutions...	15:29
Stskeeps	RST38h: we did already afaik	15:29
RST38h	thank Murtazin	15:29
mgedmin	well, all that talk about harmattan during the summit kinda implied people were already working on it rather than just talking about it	15:29
mgedmin	although I assumed it only applied to qt	15:29
mgedmin	downside of launching gui apps over ssh: when the connection times out, the app is killed	15:30
RST38h	screen.	15:30
Stskeeps	gui.. then you need NX	15:30
lardman	or add an &	15:31
RST38h	Low-Energy Laser Etching May Replace Fruit Labels	15:31
RST38h	Tatoos next	15:31
range	RST38h: The "Modest IDLE support broken" bug has a "might get a fix in harmattan but nobody knows" :)	15:31
mgedmin	ukbdcreator is not exactly intuitive	15:32
mgedmin	so, I've got a large text box, what do I type in it?	15:32
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mgedmin	loading a default layout would be nicer	15:32
Jaffa	mgedmin: Indeed, random talk at summit about Harmattan plans implied some development was happening, presumably in some components which arleady exist	15:32
RST38h	range: What is modest idle? =)	15:33
timeless_mbp	range: that's amusing	15:33
timeless_mbp	RST38h: vaporware	15:33
RST38h	Jaffa: It is a non-secret really. Working on two evolutionary steps of the system at the time is a standard practice	15:33
range	RST38h: IDLE support in IMAP - something like push mail done correctly :)	15:33
RST38h	Oh	15:34
range	timeless_mbp: Well, errm.	15:34
timeless_mbp	range: fwiw...	15:34
timeless_mbp	IDLE is apparently mostly useless	15:34
RST38h	Jaffa: Would be more surprised if they WERE NOT working on Harmattan	15:34
timeless_mbp	i think most people want NOTIFY instead	15:34
timeless_mbp	i know that IDLE would be a disaster for me	15:34
timeless_mbp	range: out of curiosity, how many folders does your imap account have?	15:35
mgedmin	mine has less than two hundred	15:35
RST38h	Jaffa: What would be really nice to know though is how many Fremantle packages are branched for Harmattan and how many are being taken from the Fremantle main trunk	15:35
range	timeless_mbp: Yeah, but that is DRAFT mostly.	15:35
RST38h	The more of them are branched => the less support we are gonna get for Fremantle	15:35
timeless_mbp	mgedmin: less than 200 folders	15:36
derf	I have a mere 17.	15:36
range	timeless_mbp: Too many :)	15:36
range	20? 30?	15:36
mgedmin	77	15:36
timeless_mbp	well golly gee, you definitely do not want IDLE	15:36
derf	Only 5 of which can receive mail.	15:36
derf	Well, mail that I'd want to read.	15:36
timeless_mbp	derf: well that's great	15:36
mgedmin	20 of which receive incoming mail	15:36
derf	And yes, I know IDLE is mostly useless.	15:36
timeless_mbp	you planning to write a ui to let a normal user explain to modest which folders are "interesting"?	15:37
mgedmin	and I don't even know what IDLE is	15:37
timeless_mbp	can you imagine our ui team trying to do that?	15:37
derf	timeless_mbp: I can do it in other mail programs.	15:37
derf	But no, I'm not ever planning to touch modest.	15:37
RST38h	It is a pretty easy ui though	15:37
timeless_mbp	derf: oh sure	15:37
timeless_mbp	RST38h: how would you do it?	15:37
RST38h	Unless you want to comply with Maemo5 Stule Guide which limits you in all kinds of ways	15:37
timeless_mbp	...	15:37
timeless_mbp	well, we're talking about fremantle ui designers	15:38
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mgedmin	hey, multi-selection kinetic lists exist in maemo 5	15:38
RST38h	Show attractive list of folders and ask the user to arrange them	15:38
timeless_mbp	so i think you kinda have to take that as a given	15:38
mgedmin	and this is exactly what's needed for, e.g. subscribing/unsubscribing to folders	15:38
derf	RST38h: I like checkboxes next to them.	15:38
RST38h	If it is a bisection of interesting-vs-uninteresting, I would divide the screen in two halves, etc	15:38
timeless_mbp	RST38h: "arrange" is definitely not supported by maemo5 :)	15:38
RST38h	Putting little stars on interesting folders will also work	15:38
derf	RST38h: But things have parent/child relationships.	15:38
mgedmin	trees can be flattened	15:38
timeless_mbp	derf: tell me about it	15:39
mgedmin	modest already does that to my folders	15:39
RST38h	derf: Does not matter for this particular activity	15:39
timeless_mbp	i have at least two folders named "bugzilla"	15:39
derf	RST38h: Yes, it does.	15:39
timeless_mbp	one of which is useless	15:39
timeless_mbp	one of which is important	15:39
derf	For the reason timeless_mbp just elucidated.	15:39
RST38h	derf: You can show a tree and ask the user to star interesting folders	15:39
derf	RST38h: Right. That was what I was suggesting.	15:39
derf	And is, in fact, how other programs do it.	15:39
RST38h	derf: The UI is not really a problem	15:39
derf	I didn't claim it was.	15:40
timeless_mbp	RST38h: can you try explaining that in 4-6 words composing a title or English sentence?	15:40
timeless_mbp	"star interesting folders" doesn't cut it	15:40
RST38h	derf: It is artifical lmitations enforced by Maemo5 UI people that are problem	15:40
timeless_mbp	nah	15:40
timeless_mbp	the maemo5 ui can definitely support it	15:40
timeless_mbp	but coming up w/ decent strings is ... definitely a challenge	15:40
RST38h	Ability To Mark Watched Folders	15:40
RST38h	Here, Have it.	15:40
timeless_mbp	and given that they've failed for much simpler strings...	15:40
timeless_mbp	if "watched" isn't a technical term	15:41
derf	"Mark folders to check for new mail"	15:41
RST38h	It is a term people understand	15:41
timeless_mbp	then you've just written something which doesn't mean anything	15:41
derf	It's 7 words, but what do you want.	15:41
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timeless_mbp	derf: 6 max ;-)	15:41
timeless_mbp	really	15:41
timeless_mbp	you have two things to deal w/	15:41
timeless_mbp	1. a button in a menu	15:41
timeless_mbp	max ~3 words	15:41
timeless_mbp	2. a title line in a "view"	15:41
derf	"Folder subscriptions"	15:41
timeless_mbp	that implies i can only see folders for which idle is enabled	15:42
timeless_mbp	someone said 5 / 17 folders get new interesting mail	15:42
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timeless_mbp	would that someone never want to read mail from the other 12?	15:42
wjt	New mail subscriptions	15:42
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timeless_mbp	wjt: "maybe"	15:43
tigert	a friend had a good folder structure	15:43
tigert	very well organized set of folder	15:43
tigert	s	15:43
tigert	and one which had the name "Mail I actually read"	15:43
tigert	:)	15:43
timeless_mbp	tigert: my folder structure suffers	15:43
timeless_mbp	modest sorts alphabetically	15:43
timeless_mbp	and i have a folder named "archive"	15:43
timeless_mbp	so the folders i actually need to read are nowhere near inbox	15:43
mgedmin	my incoming mail is in INBOX and in a bunch of folders named IN.something	15:43
tigert	so name them like we used to do with MacOS9 apple menu?	15:43
range	Well, a pull every 10 minutes doesn't really make it better.	15:43
timeless_mbp	because my archive tree is huge	15:43
mgedmin	which means I scroll halfway through the list to see them	15:44
tigert	" Foobar", " Foobar" etc	15:44
range	As long as I can turn off "new mail has arrived!"	15:44
timeless_mbp	tigert: 1, 2, 3?	15:44
tigert	or if that doesnt work, 1Foobar 2Blah 3Zoo	15:44
tigert	ugly but works	15:44
* timeless_mbp nods		15:44
timeless_mbp	personally, i want imap subscription management	15:44
timeless_mbp	but i'm using MfE not imap	15:44
timeless_mbp	so..	15:44
tigert	you can use imap too afaik?	15:44
tigert	exchange has imap	15:44
timeless_mbp	is our imap public/	15:45
tigert	havent tried	15:45
* timeless_mbp can't remember		15:45
tigert	our exchange is, so...	15:45
tigert	try	15:45
timeless_mbp	iirc it was for about a week	15:45
timeless_mbp	and then went back to not being	15:45
tigert	ok	15:45
tigert	use vpn?	15:45
* timeless_mbp dresses up a dead body		15:46
* timeless_mbp shoves it toward tigert		15:46
timeless_mbp	it's not like imap actually has advantages in Modest over MfE	15:46
timeless_mbp	c.f. -IDLE -NOTIFY +BANDWIDTH	15:47
timeless_mbp	telnet somewhere imap4-ssl	15:47
range	timeless_mbp: Ummm. Yes. I "only" have an IMAP server.	15:47
timeless_mbp	Trying somewhere...	15:47
timeless_mbp	telnet: connect to address somewhere: Operation timed out	15:47
timeless_mbp	telnet: Unable to connect to remote host	15:47
timeless_mbp	range: sorry, side discussion about a hypothetical infrastructure for a hypothetical employer	15:48
range	:)	15:48
timeless_mbp	note that hypothetically non MS servers can implement MfE support	15:48
timeless_mbp	hypothetically there might even be a major vendor which does	15:48
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* range takes out his knive to drill holes into his shinbone.		15:49
range	That sounds like more fn.	15:49
timeless_mbp	such a hypothetical server might not work with a released version of modest	15:49
range	fnu.	15:49
range	FUN	15:49
timeless_mbp	but hypothetically that could be fixed	15:49
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timeless_mbp	don't file a bug about that btw :)	15:50
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mgedmin	fnu sounds like the predecessor of gnu	15:50
range	fnu is not gnu is not unix?	15:50
timeless_mbp	heh	15:50
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wazd	bye-bye barcelona :(	16:01
Anvith3	i'm running low on internal memory on my n810. i've uninstalled all unwanted apps. how can i free up more memory. where are the temp files located?	16:01
Stskeeps	wazd: :(	16:01
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zaheer_	wazd, ?	16:02
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Macer	ok	16:09
Macer	that's it	16:09
Macer	touchbook is fail :)	16:09
Macer	going to try to get android on it and if i can't i'll sell it for half the price haha	16:09
Stskeeps	why is it fail?	16:09
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Macer	Stskeeps: i wouldn't even know where to begin	16:11
Macer	I think that it's neither software, nor hardware (in the sense of a design	16:11
Macer	error). Maybe a faulty connection somewhere. I will continue investigating.	16:11
Macer	that is the last bug reply i got for it randomly blanking	16:11
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Macer	it just needs a good os for it but there really isn't anything out there that i can put on it that is far enough developed to work properly	16:12
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Macer	Stskeeps: i am going to sell it. want to buy it for $250? you might find something good to do with it	16:13
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Macer	but yeah. for me. the touchbook is a total piece of shit :)	16:14
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Anvith3	i'm running low on internal memory on my n810. i've uninstalled all unwanted apps. how can i free up more memory. where are the temp files located?	16:15
Anvith3	sorry about double post	16:15
RST38h	Macer: He will put Mer on it =)	16:15
RST38h	Anvith: What is internal memory? / partition?	16:16
Anvith3	my mistake i meant phone memory	16:16
Macer	RST38h: i wouldn't care what he did with it. i am personally about to run it over with my car	16:16
Anvith3	the 250 mb	16:16
Anvith3	one+	16:16
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Macer	right now i am going to write a flame article on http://tech.rancorous.net	16:17
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Termana	Macer - I think its better to run it over with your car than give it away, imo	16:19
wazd	Macer: moblin 2.1?	16:19
RST38h	Macer: Come on, at the very least it makes a nice coffee tablet decoration	16:20
Termana	Don't forget to take a video	16:20
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anvith3_N810	RST38h: how do i do it?	16:20
RST38h	Anvith: Uninstall some applications	16:20
RST38h	Anvith: Remove unused locales	16:21
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RST38h	Anvith: Simply reboot, to let the OS garbage collect	16:21
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Termana	Anvith - Remember to do the madatory "bash your head against a wall". The computing gods aren't ever happy, and will never give you results unless you cause yourself pain in the process.	16:25
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JamieBennett	How do you get the IMEI number from the N900? Want to put it on my insurance but it *#06# doesn't seem to work	16:26
Termana	JamieBennett: Try looking under that battery	16:26
Termana	the*	16:26
SpeedEvil	Is it perhaps writen under the battery?	16:26
zaheer_	JamieBennett, it is in about in settings	16:26
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SpeedEvil	Though *#... not working is probably a bug	16:26
JamieBennett	ah, so Nokia are diverging from the standard then? or not supported yet?	16:26
zaheer_	JamieBennett, plus the battery thing everyone else said :)	16:27
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zaheer_	but yah i just checked, it is definitely in About product in the settings app	16:27
JamieBennett	zaheer_ wins for easy of finding out, thanks	16:27
JamieBennett	wow, spelling problems today :)	16:28
JamieBennett	sorry	16:28
zaheer_	JamieBennett, it's ok, i misspelt my nick also	16:28
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JamieBennett	:)	16:28
* JamieBennett goes back to device tree research		16:29
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VDVsx	ROTFL -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VZHT389eR4 (watch till the end :P)	16:30
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pupnik_	i like cork soled sandals because i can make little farting noises with my feet when i'm waiting in line	16:34
JamieBennett	Bug submitted. I really should stop moaning and file more bugs but I fear that I have a lot of them for the n900 :)	16:35
pupnik_	for when n810 is not handy	16:35
RST38h	javis: Rejoice, they have fixed the menu hangup bug!	16:35
javispedro	we'll see how :)	16:36
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RST38h	BTW, anyone have encountered a bug where ENTER key in XTerm suddenly stops working?	16:36
Stskeeps	anyone with a 770, os2006 around and 'file' installed?	16:36
Stskeeps	RST38h: yeah, probably hildon input method screwing up	16:36
* RST38h has been hit with it twice over the last two days		16:36
Stskeeps	use ctrl-m	16:36
RST38h	Hmmmm...you havew got a point	16:37
Stskeeps	(we're back to the 70s)	16:37
RST38h	Should I file it though?	16:37
Mek	enter always stops working after I detach screen in xterm for me....	16:37
Mek	(screen in ssh in xterm that is)	16:37
RST38h	Anyone got bug id for it?	16:37
anvith3_N810	ok thanks. @termana : ah well what can i say.	16:37
anvith3_N810	:)	16:37
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wazd	I just caught a design revelation	16:38
Stskeeps	army clothes for teletubbies?	16:39
Macer	hahahahaa	16:39
wazd	If you want to make flush screen in the phone - don't make front case black - make it silvery dark grey, same as the screen	16:40
RST38h	wazd: sure you can get the color right though?	16:40
RST38h	Because if it is even a little bit off, this makes no sense to do	16:40
wazd	RST38h: I bet it's possible)	16:40
wazd	RST38h: with all that zillion of different materials	16:41
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RST38h	wazd: it may be difficult to predict exact lcd color, when it is off	16:41
RST38h	even two batches of the same lcd model may have somewhat different colors	16:41
wazd	for me they are really the same :D	16:41
RST38h	collect some of your gadgets and compare =)	16:42
Stskeeps	Macer: the issue sounds like a kernel issue though, especially that people were able to have it continue working by continously feeding the backlight setting	16:42
wazd	RST38h: looking at SE t630 and n800 now - really the same	16:42
wazd	RST38h: like exactly	16:43
VDVsx	javispedro, ping	16:43
javispedro	VDVsx: pong	16:43
wazd	RST38h: the only difference is that you can see pixel grid on 630 :)	16:43
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VDVsx	javispedro, do you know if sbox still have issues with OGL ?	16:43
wazd	RST38h: I'm sure next iPhone will use that idea :)	16:44
javispedro	VDVsx: i am at this very moment still trying to understand the clutter ogl intricacies. so yes, the final sdk still has issues with OGL.	16:44
RST38h	wazd: Or just make the inactive screen totally black =)	16:44
wazd	RST38h: that's kinda impossible/expensive	16:44
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javispedro	VDVsx: even though may I ask to elaborate the question? from the top of my head there's the "uses software rendering no mather what" and the "orangeness" issues.	16:45
wazd	RST38h: OLED - yes	16:45
RST38h	wazd: polarized glass or one-way mirror	16:45
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RST38h	wazd: you lose some brightness of course, but it has been done before, even with a third-party film	16:45
RST38h	wazd: I have seen iPhone screen protector that becomes a mirror when the iPhone screen is off	16:46
javispedro	VDVsx: and I have somewhat working fixes for both	16:46
wazd	RST38h: not sure, never seen it for myself	16:46
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wazd	RST38h: and assumed that it's too expensive to polarize screen	16:46
VDVsx	javispedro, it runs fast ? and the sbox packages are still diff from the device ones ?	16:46
wazd	RST38h: ah, yep, saw that too	16:46
javispedro	VDVsx: with VMGL it runs fast indeed. sdk packages are so old that now the autobuilder gets them from "in-device packages repo" instead of sdk	16:47
wazd	RST38h: http://www.daydeal.com/files/images8/iphone_mirror_screen_pro2.jpg	16:47
wazd	RST38h: but as you can see - black border still around	16:47
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javispedro	VDVsx: want to try? if you have debian lenny it should be easy (well, patch and recompile xserver-xephyr...)	16:49
RST38h	wazd: Yea	16:50
RST38h	Mek: Still here?	16:50
VDVsx	javispedro, I've ubuntu ;)	16:50
VDVsx	javispedro, but don't have the last sbox version	16:50
wazd	RST38h: you can make it disappear at some angles but my solution will work better :)	16:50
RST38h	Mek: Please, vot/comment on this bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6045	16:50
povbot	Bug 6045: ENTER key stops working in XTerm	16:50
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zaheerm	VDVsx, that video was too funny!	16:51
* javispedro saw it already :)		16:52
VDVsx	hehe	16:53
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Macer	http://tech.rancorous.net/2009/11/05/touchbook-fail/	16:54
Macer	lol	16:54
Stskeeps	well, google is getting a shitload of bad press atm	16:54
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RST38h	Sts: Smear campaign! =)	16:54
javispedro	Even though this common belief that "Cyogen did a better rom in his spare time than the Google team in months" is common, and I dislike it	16:55
Stskeeps	all things considered, we do have a -fairly- good relationship with nokia :P	16:55
* javispedro saw it loooots of times in the PalmOS sphere		16:55
Macer	javispedro: :)	16:55
Macer	cyanogen is awesome	16:55
lcuk	mgedmin, povbot is awesome! :D	16:56
SpeedEvil	What are the things the mods do that the stock doesnT?	16:56
Macer	ah.	16:57
Macer	SpeedEvil: for oen thing their updates are quicker	16:57
Macer	they have dev tools and certain mods that are nice to have	16:57
Macer	theme support is nice too :)	16:57
SpeedEvil	ah	16:57
* lcuk hopes barcamp has good food this weekend		16:57
javispedro	Macer: too bad the TB sucks so much, I was considering it.	16:58
Macer	javispedro: it is a total piece of shit :)	16:58
RST38h	lcuk: What is BarCamp anyway? How did it start? Th description at Maemo Planet sounds delicious	16:58
lcuk	the touchbook is made of awesome tho	16:58
Macer	i guess it would be good for people who are hardcore developers	16:58
Stskeeps	god, i love that ending of the movie	16:58
Macer	but as it stands the thing is a total piece of crap :)	16:58
javispedro	Stskeeps: the real one or the one with N900 references? :)	16:58
lcuk	RST38h, planet or talk	16:58
lcuk	i cant get planet up atm	16:58
RST38h	lcuk: no longer remember, the one with pictures	16:59
Macer	you would be best to save your money and get a beagleboard or an n900	16:59
* VDVsx just found out that he has a friend studying in Barcelona :)		16:59
Macer	save the $400 and you are 2/3 to an n900 :)	16:59
javispedro	Macer: beagleboard sucks batteries too	16:59
Stskeeps	javispedro: both but the n900 reference got me	16:59
javispedro	VDVsx: studying what? :)	16:59
Macer	javispedro: unless a REAL company picks up a GOOD arm based netbook. i think an atom is the best route	16:59
lcuk	lol, its an unconference full of people from tech who come together and discuss topics on the day they arrive	16:59
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lcuk	very very cool idea :) there were people from all areas last time	17:00
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lcuk	and we took part in some really nifty presentations and bofs	17:00
VDVsx	javispedro, Msc, think is CS, let me ask, He contact me asking if I'll be there for the maemo hackfest ;)	17:00
VDVsx	javispedro, http://www.iua.upf.edu/csim/	17:01
javispedro	ah, good.	17:02
VDVsx	javispedro, your univ as well ?	17:02
* VDVsx now hopes to be invited ;)		17:03
javispedro	VDVsx: nope, I'm from barcelona tech (as most of those who posted in the thread so far)	17:03
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VDVsx	javispedro, :)	17:04
javispedro	(barcelona tech is not the real name but sounds cool either way :) )	17:04
VDVsx	ehhe	17:05
RST38h	BTU?=)	17:05
javispedro	heh	17:05
VDVsx	FIB isn't it ?	17:05
VDVsx	lol	17:05
javispedro	yep	17:06
Macer	http://bash.org/?766026	17:07
Macer	lol	17:07
javispedro	lol	17:08
* RST38h wonders if the author meant some sex toy by "octopus"		17:08
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RST38h	Because the live octopus somehow feels less relevant to the described situation	17:09
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* javispedro believes someone was triying to reuse problems from another book by just changing the text but not the numbers		17:10
javispedro	after "reinventing" problems for a few hours I'm sure a octopus in a physics problem sounds reasonable	17:10
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Macer	javispedro: haha	17:12
Macer	javispedro: i was wondering if there was any type of centrifugal force created by the puck hitting the octopus	17:12
Stskeeps	javispedro: keyboard and ts part?	17:12
Stskeeps	err..	17:12
Stskeeps	Macer:	17:12
Macer	?	17:13
fiferboy	Throwing octipii onto the ice is actually common in one NHL city - I think Detroit	17:13
Stskeeps	Macer: TB	17:13
Macer	Stskeeps: yeah. that's short for touchbullshit	17:13
Macer	:)	17:13
javispedro	octipii!	17:14
Stskeeps	shipping included in 250 USD? ;)	17:14
fiferboy	octopii?	17:14
javispedro	octopuses iirc	17:14
fiferboy	octopuses, octopi, octopodes, aparently	17:15
Macer	Stskeeps: hm. i am trying to remember how much the n800 was to ship to you	17:15
javispedro	wasn't there a entire domain dedicated to the "virii" issue ;)	17:15
Stskeeps	Macer: a TB is probably a lot heavier :P	17:15
javispedro	wouldn't anyone know when GL_UNSIGNED_SHORT_5_6_5 was introducen in desktop opengl?	17:16
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Macer	honestly. if it is less than $50 to ship. then sure. screw it	17:16
Macer	this thing is worthless to me :)	17:17
Macer	let me check at the usps and i will tell you by saturday	17:17
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Macer	at least the 200 will help me get my n900 :).. i am hating the day i ever thought about buying this touchbook	17:18
Macer	haha	17:18
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Macer	but if you really want it .. let me know so i don't go wait in line for nothing :)	17:19
Macer	i accept paypal haha	17:19
Macer	A++++++	17:19
ShadowJK	Macer: discovered that it's not as comfortable for couch/bed surfing? :-)	17:19
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Macer	ShadowJK: discovered that it's not comfortable while ripping my hair out	17:21
Macer	it's a worthless piece of shit :)	17:22
Macer	taht's what i get for buying something designed by the french	17:22
Macer	Stskeeps would have a lot more "fun" with it than i could	17:23
ShadowJK	Software unusable?	17:23
Macer	taht... hardware seems flaky too... let me find the bug....	17:23
Macer	http://bugzilla.alwaysinnovating.com/show_bug.cgi?id=39	17:24
povbot	Bug 39: libosso docs: remove contact info	17:24
Macer	read the last entry :)	17:24
Macer	that is from the "inventor" of the tb	17:24
Macer	"Not hardware or software" kind of made me laugh	17:24
Macer	there are gremlins or french cockroaches in my TB i suppose	17:24
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Macer	wow. i think i overpaid all my credit cards	17:26
Stskeeps	Macer: i'm pondering if there's some bad readings on whatever controls backlight	17:26
Macer	Stskeeps: i am pondering throwing the thing off a tall buiilding	17:26
Macer	;)	17:26
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Hrww	hi	17:26
Macer	Stskeeps: i had a theory that it may be some type of obscure backlight power management that keeps detecting the tablet battery as being empty	17:27
Macer	since the sensor for the tablet battery doesn't seem to function properly	17:27
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Stskeeps	what did other people say that kept it from happening?	17:28
javispedro	ok, 5_6_5 is available from GL 1.2 onwards	17:28
Macer	Stskeeps: i think they found a small led flashlight	17:28
Macer	and duct taped it inside	17:28
javispedro	so why did someone believe they needed packed_pixels ext for it? Hmpf.	17:28
Macer	i thought gregoire put the broken kernel in the bug to download :)	17:29
Macer	s/thought/thought it was awesome when	17:29
Stskeeps	Macer: i do run a risk of you killing me if i discover it's some simple issue though	17:30
Macer	Stskeeps: honestly i could care less. overall i hate the thing ;) even if the backlight worked	17:30
Macer	i'd rahter have a more developed device	17:30
Macer	like an n900. even when an n900 comes out it wouldn't have NEARLY the amount of problems the tb has	17:31
* Stskeeps checks the dollar exchange rate		17:31
Macer	what do they use in poland?	17:31
Macer	euros?	17:31
Stskeeps	pln	17:31
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Macer	poland isnt eu?	17:31
range	Macer: It is, but it isn't Euro-Zone (as in currency) yet.	17:32
range	Not all countries in the EU have the EUR:	17:32
Macer	too poor huh? rest of the richer countries don't want them to drag down the currency rate? :)	17:33
Stskeeps	nah	17:33
Stskeeps	voted not to get it	17:33
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Stskeeps	in case of denmark at least	17:33
Macer	wow really? odd	17:33
lcuk	Macer, you raved about touchbook for ages	17:33
lcuk	what changed? did some pretty laptop flutter her usb ports at you?	17:34
* Moo___ got n900 <2		17:34
Moo___	<3 even	17:34
ShadowJK	Sweden and denmark held referendum and the people said no	17:34
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range	Macer: UK is one of the oldest EU countries and rather watches their pound going down than going EUR :)	17:34
Macer	lcuk: i raved about it when i was waiting on the 4 month late preorder	17:34
Macer	then got it and was totally disappointed	17:34
ShadowJK	UK artificially kept their economy from not qualifying for euro :)	17:34
lcuk	so what changed	17:34
Macer	range: well. that is probably the global economic collapse thing	17:35
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Stskeeps	Macer: at least you didn't preorder a pandora	17:35
Macer	probably had too much of a stake in the US$ or property	17:35
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Macer	Stskeeps: the same TI stuff plagues the TB also	17:35
Macer	OPEN EMBEDDED my ass :)	17:35
ShadowJK	EU is a bit fuzzy. Some aspects of EU don't apply to all of EU, and some aspects extend and apply in some places outside EU	17:36
lcuk	Macer, dont shout that too loudly	17:36
lcuk	someone may take it as an invite	17:36
Moo___	ShadowJK: italians don't even translat the directives to their language ;)	17:36
javispedro	to open embed his ass?	17:36
javispedro	O.o	17:36
Macer	lcuk: hahaha	17:36
* mgedmin was quite surprised this year when he discovered UK wasn't in Schengen		17:36
Macer	freudian slip	17:36
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Macer	uk doesn't use euros does it?	17:36
Macer	i thought they stuck with their pounds	17:36
Macer	i only recently found out the royal family still has control of hte military	17:37
Macer	like the queen decides on what to do with it still	17:37
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ShadowJK	Schengen is the border control thing	17:38
Macer	she should have them kill parliment.. like ye old days	17:38
Macer	olde	17:38
RST38h	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1225042/Germanys-bald-bears-Fur-disease-afflicts-Dolores-baffles-vets.html	17:38
Macer	ah well... i'm off to sleep for a bit. tty later	17:38
Macer	Stskeeps: i will let you know if 250 is viable with shipping tomorrow or saturday	17:39
Stskeeps	we'll see.. no promises yet	17:39
Moo___	help	17:39
ShadowJK	What are they as new?	17:39
Moo___	how can I type ä with US n900 layout	17:39
ShadowJK	Is it under chr/sym perhaps	17:40
VDVsx	mgedmin, same , lol	17:41
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RST38h	moo: press top left key	17:42
RST38h	moo: select :, then press the A key	17:42
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mgedmin	Moo___, fn+ctrl, ¨, a	17:43
mgedmin	took me ages to find the unicode code for ¨	17:43
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RST38h	it shows up as two characters here	17:46
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frals	awesome, got home from fighting with win2k3 and lpd to find wap push dbus docs in my mail \o/	17:47
* RST38h lazily watches Oct2009s discussing "games worth emulating"		17:48
javispedro	tell them to get out of your lawn!	17:48
ccooke	RST38h: have they mentioned any PS3/360 games yet? :-)	17:49
javispedro	no, but someone mentioned "the emulatos on android have better compatibility rates" and me feel dizzy	17:50
mgedmin	where's diff for fremantle?	17:50
RST38h	ccooke: coming	17:50
Moo___	mgedmin: nope, no luck yet :P	17:51
Moo___	top left is "sym ctrl"	17:51
RST38h	"Amiga 500: is apparently a console game	17:51
* javispedro wins		17:53
mgedmin	Moo___, you need to hold down fn (the blue northeast-pointing arrow), press sym/ctrl	17:54
mgedmin	a symbol palette will pop up	17:54
RST38h	Moo: Mgedmin is right, sorry	17:54
mgedmin	press ¨, it will light up	17:54
mgedmin	then press a	17:54
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mgedmin	simple!	17:54
mgedmin	five easy steps	17:54
javispedro	SDK 0 javispedro 1	17:54
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* mgedmin wants to throw a sport at some UI designers		17:54
mgedmin	*spork	17:55
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RST38h	why not go for a knife from the start? we know THAT is what you REALLY want =)	17:55
lardman	splade might do more harm ;)	17:55
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RST38h	Entering ~ character is funny too	17:56
javispedro	the compositing thing sucks, since it's basically just getting the window contents as raw bitmaps (using xshmimageget) and then uploading as gl textures. at least on ogl, not yet seen the ogles code path.	17:56
Moo___	mgedmin: i am pretty sure I know what you mean	17:56
Moo___	but it does not work :P	17:56
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mgedmin	worksforme, Moo___	17:57
mgedmin	if I wasn't bitten by bug 5343, I could start xchat and prove it to you	17:57
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5343 "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling	17:57
javispedro	if the ogles code path is anything similar this means using the "official" scaler konttori shown us will be faster	17:57
javispedro	because data uploaded to gpu will be halved	17:57
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mgedmin	hm, actually, I may be using an UK keyboard layout	17:58
mgedmin	I wonder if the popup palette is different for US	17:58
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pupnik_	javispedro but for 2x scaling, the composited path means 1/2 as memcopy as without composited, right?	17:59
pupnik_	s/as/as much/	17:59
javispedro	pupnik_: exactly.	17:59
infobot	pupnik_ meant: javispedro but for 2x scaling, the composited path means 1/2 as much memcopy as without composited, right?	17:59
javispedro	wait.	17:59
* javispedro reparses		17:59
Stskeeps	morning orbarron	18:00
pupnik_	say i scale 2x, that means 4x memcpy	18:00
pupnik_	normally	18:00
javispedro	pupnik_: without compositing, I'd expect the GPU to draw on to screen directly	18:00
javispedro	thus avoiding any memcpy at all	18:00
pupnik_	with this composite i copy original siye twice, so 2x	18:00
pupnik_	size	18:00
orbarron	morning Stskeeps	18:01
javispedro	with compositing and outputting 800x480 it's going to upload a 800x480 texture to gpu	18:01
mgedmin	wtf segfault? http://pastie.org/684962	18:01
pupnik_	ow, no... no...	18:02
pupnik_	really?	18:02
javispedro	seems so.	18:02
javispedro	actually, a FBO.	18:02
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pupnik_	ok well device is fast enough	18:02
pupnik_	lolÃ¤	18:02
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mgedmin	waah, dead ssh sessions are hogging all my PTYs	18:03
mgedmin	is there a bug asking for an increase?	18:03
Stskeeps	i vote for more open xterms too	18:04
mgedmin	bug 5824	18:04
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5824 Maximum number of pseudo terminals too low (4)	18:04
pupnik_	were the sgx designers this clueless about what we need, ir is this a limitation imposed by x?	18:05
pupnik_	nice clppless Q, pupnik	18:05
pupnik_	shh	18:05
* Moo___ managed to switch Suomi Svenka layout and can now type å and ö but no ä :(		18:06
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Moo___	now!	18:06
Moo___	up arrow	18:06
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mgedmin	anybody experimented with init scripts on fremantle?	18:07
lcuk	which is the best vmware image for fremantle stuff? the laptop network pissed me off for the final time	18:07
Corsac	hmnhm what exactly maemo architecture uses for managing the archive? (asking because we started accepting 3.0 source format which I guess aren't known in maemo atm)	18:08
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javispedro	seems that indeed the ogles codepath is mostly the same as the ogl one.	18:13
javispedro	why aren't they using FBOs?	18:13
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mgedmin	flaky flaky network	18:15
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AndrewFBlack	Is there no way to disable an applet on n900	18:17
lcuk	javispedro, so you are patching up the sdk side of things still	18:18
lcuk	(very worthy btw!)	18:18
lcuk	AndrewFBlack, explain more..	18:18
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javispedro	lcuk: yeah, I am reading to try to understand how it works and make more informated comments in bug #4870	18:18
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK	18:18
AndrewFBlack	lcuk, ok lets say I'm tried of see load applet right but I don't want ot install it can I not disable it like before?	18:19
* mgedmin very very angry about bug network flakyness		18:19
lcuk	it happens all over mgedmin	18:19
fiferboy	AndrewFBlack: No, it seems there is no way of disabling status bar applets	18:19
lcuk	the wifi end of my house is annoying	18:19
fiferboy	Maybe if you dig into some configuration files that control the loading of them...	18:20
mgedmin	laptop's wifi is _fine_, n900's wifi is tired	18:20
lcuk	heh other way round here	18:20
AndrewFBlack	seems like there are several functions they have remeved to make fremantle "Simpler" has made it well not so simple to me	18:20
lcuk	the laptop works great if its within about 5 foot of the router	18:20
lcuk	otherwise it has a shitfit	18:20
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lcuk	AndrewFBlack, you want to install the applet but you dont want it running?	18:21
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AndrewFBlack	well lets say I don't want it running right now atleast like I don't always need load applet running but I have ot keep it running all the time now	18:23
lcuk	gotcha	18:23
AndrewFBlack	I think I like Maemo5-loadapplet better but I can't figure out how to do screenshots with it	18:24
lcuk	file it as an bug/enhancement request?	18:24
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jysky	what's the latest eta for n900?	18:25
w00t	nokia uk have been saying that shipping of preorders starts on the 9th for a fair while, so i'm sticking with that	18:26
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jysky	nice	18:27
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jysky	few weeks ago i asked from verkkokauppa.com and they said that week 45. don't know if it has changed	18:29
RST38h	WW45 is like NOW	18:29
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jysky	yeah, but if they get 2 pieces at friday afternoon it's still 45 :)	18:30
RST38h	Sunday still satisfies the promise, in European terms	18:30
w00t	overseas dates have been very mixed	18:30
jysky	don't think they be going through their deliveries at weekends	18:31
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javispedro	TODO: non-comp. in portrait mode	18:31
javispedro	heh.	18:31
* lcuk takes apart nintendo wii		18:32
* mgedmin wonders why RST38h uses a double-double-u prefix for week numbers		18:32
RST38h	mgedmin: work-week	18:32
RST38h	mgedmin: pretty standard in the industry	18:32
mgedmin	interesting, I've never encountered it	18:33
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SpeedEvil	Has anyone here ordering from nokia.co.uk gotten an email?	18:33
mgedmin	I've always used ISO 8601, which is just W45	18:33
range	Hmmm. Wouldn't that be different for everybody depending on when they take their vacations?	18:33
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range	And. I don't have 52 work weeks per year :)	18:34
RST38h	range: nah, it is not a work week only if everyone stops working	18:34
RST38h	which will eventually happen, I guess, but not right away	18:34
RST38h	The Tentacled One needs some more time waking up	18:35
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mgedmin	ooh, conboy devs are fixing bugs!	18:36
mgedmin	I should file some new ones	18:36
pH5	:)	18:37
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pinheiro_	hey people	18:52
pinheiro_	one question what is teh defoult font in maemo?	18:52
range	Nokia Sans, probably.	18:52
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VDVsx	yeah, think so	18:53
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mgedmin	uh oh bumped max pty limit to 16 and ran out of them	18:54
VDVsx	the maemo encyclopedia should know that :)	18:54
VDVsx	qwerty12, what the default font in maemo ?	18:54
* mgedmin whispers "nokia sans"		18:54
VDVsx	*what's	18:54
qwerty12	Nokia Sans	18:54
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pinheiro_	cool	18:55
VDVsx	qwerty12, thanks ;)	18:55
Ircng	Hi all	18:55
pinheiro_	now were can i find it :)	18:55
pinheiro_	making mocks :)	18:55
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Jaffa	Blimey, fmradio's now in extras	18:56
Jaffa	Needs a screenshot	18:56
qwerty12	pinheiro_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33181&highlight=nokia+sans has two ways, with the install Nokia Internet Tablet Video Converter method being the easiest...	18:56
Ircng	Anyone knows when new n900 trully will be launched in US?	18:56
qwerty12	Jaffa: They can all be found on wazd's blog ;)	18:57
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RST38h	Ircng: no.	18:57
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Jaffa	qwerty12: Are they actually used by the app? I've not tried it (I'd also say it needs an XB-Maemo-Display-Name of 'FM Radio')	18:57
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qwerty12	Jaffa: Well, it does have the scale, but it does not look like one on wazd's blog =)	18:58
qwerty12	=the	18:58
pinheiro_	only windows and mac ports :(	18:59
pinheiro_	oo well wine will get it i think	18:59
qwerty12	The SDK route is also available...	18:59
javispedro	anyone saw anyone using HildonRemoteTexture?	19:00
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RST38h	The Firefox for Mobile aggregator is back!	19:02
pinheiro_	qwerty12: thanks wine worked the software works via wine, :) now to find the ttf	19:03
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* javispedro thinks adding HildonRemoteFBO wouldn't be a bad idea		19:03
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javispedro	ah well, enough clutter for today	19:05
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javispedro	RST38h: not only it's back, but it's also "Unknown author"	19:05
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andrei1089	hi.. is there any way to catch the headset button press on N900?	19:06
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RST38h	javispedro: can't it be disabled as being offtopic?	19:07
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javispedro	RST38h: I dunno. IMHO all tweets should disappear from there.	19:09
RST38h	yep	19:10
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practisevoodoo_	does anyone know how to enable usb host mode inside easy debian on an n810?	19:23
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lcuk	practisevoodoo_, easydebian is inside a choot within diablo isnt it	19:29
lcuk	ie, if you enable hostmode the normal way, wont it just follow and use that	19:29
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* lcuk makes a nintendo wii fixing tool		19:36
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courmisch	anyone knows how to get pannable rather than scrollbar widgets with Qt4 on N900 ?	19:39
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Tomomosius	Whant to win prizes like Xbox360 Elite,PS3,PSP-3000,40 inc LCD TV and many more. Then watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZl3vlYgO0g It will explain u how.U can pm me here to	19:40
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v2px_	:3	19:40
VDVsx	lol, no N900's :(	19:41
qwerty12	VDVsx, for you, they will reserve an Android-running phone of your choice	19:42
VDVsx	qwerty12, nice ;)	19:43
* VDVsx wants one :)		19:43
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Khertan	Hi everybody !	19:43
mgedmin	~lart flaky wifi	19:44
* infobot puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at flaky wifi		19:44
VDVsx	~cookie	19:44
* infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... zip 42350... Island McLean KY		19:44
Khertan	Topic doesn t say anymore that maemo 5 will not be available on n8x0 ... does it s mean it will ?	19:45
Khertan	:)	19:45
mgedmin	nah, it means everybody knows already	19:45
mgedmin	there probably exists a parallel universe in which maemo 5 will be backported to the 770	19:46
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Khertan	why does nokia fuck the gtk.filechooserdialog with their theme ....i can t display extension with hildon.filechooserdialog !	19:47
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Khertan	does there is a way to read received sms on n900	19:49
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Khertan	i mean with python ?	19:49
zaheerm	yah	19:53
zaheerm	event logger api	19:54
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fiferboy	courmisch: pannable widgets are going to be default in the next release of the qt libs	19:55
fiferboy	courmisch: If you want to try them out now, go to qt4.garage.maemo.org and click the install arrow	19:55
courmisch	fiferboy: ok	19:57
courmisch	fiferboy: btw, why was tray icon class removed rather than stubbed?	19:57
Khertan	zaheerm: does there is examples somewhere ?	19:58
Stskeeps	no tray icons in fremantle? :P	19:58
Khertan	or api doc ?	19:58
fiferboy	courmisch: I'm not sure. You could try asking at #qt-maemo	19:58
zaheerm	Khertan, there should be, i don't know where though	19:58
Khertan	ah ok ...	19:59
courmisch	SMS are exposed via DBus with an internal API	19:59
courmisch	probably com.nokia.csd.sms.something	19:59
Khertan	the purpose is simple	20:00
Khertan	when an sms is receive with a specific code erase data take picture and gps position and send it to kill the thief :)	20:00
Khertan	just in case it could be usefull for a stupid thief which didn t flash the n900	20:01
courmisch	I'm pretty sure N900 is not capable of killing someone	20:01
Stskeeps	wanna bet?	20:01
courmisch	I doubt CE label would allow it	20:01
Khertan	yep but with gps position stream send i can	20:02
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Flandry__	We just leave the killing part to Skynet's "operatives"	20:02
Khertan	:)	20:03
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Khertan	maybe i can read sms file if it s stored somewhere	20:04
Khertan	hum not a good idea for battery	20:04
courmisch	/var/spool/sms IIRC	20:05
VDVsx	Khertan, probably they will release the API for that	20:05
courmisch	define they?	20:05
Khertan	yep ... i ll wait the api	20:05
VDVsx	there's a couple of apps for Symbian with the same functionality ;)	20:06
Khertan	or at least documention on dbus	20:06
VDVsx	courmisch, Nokia	20:06
Khertan	yep and palm too :)	20:06
courmisch	my understanding as an employee in the maemo cellular team is _no_	20:06
VDVsx	:(	20:07
courmisch	but the upper-layer Telepathy API, maybe	20:07
Khertan	i ve done one for my palm which install himself in the firmware	20:07
* RST38h moos		20:07
Khertan	courmisch: :(	20:07
wjt	the Telepathy API is all in the open	20:07
wjt	http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=rtcom-telepathy-glib.git;a=summary	20:07
VDVsx	Khertan, I've done a similar thing with pyS60, but not for the same propose	20:07
wjt	plus the regular Telepathy interfaces	20:07
courmisch	the CSD API is not very hard to figure out, but it's unlikely to be documented	20:07
Khertan	sniff	20:08
VDVsx	courmisch, security reasons ? :P	20:08
Stskeeps	courmisch: you did notice cellmo-icp28-headers are in sdk?	20:08
courmisch	weird	20:08
courmisch	but that's only useful if you want to talk to the modem directly	20:08
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Stskeeps	still, if that is accessible, then why not csd? :P	20:09
courmisch	because then we have an excuse for not maintaining the API in Maemo 6, and for not supporting apps that screw cellular up	20:10
Khertan	:(	20:10
courmisch	Stskeeps: ofono is probably a better source if you want to reverse engineer the modem protocol anyway	20:11
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VDVsx	eheh	20:12
lcuk	Khertan, easy api for python	20:12
RST38h	Stskeeps: Or you can google for "cellular AT command set"	20:13
courmisch	The N900 does not talk AT natively	20:13
Khertan	lcuk ? for what ?	20:13
RST38h	is there some point where you can feed AT commands though?	20:13
courmisch	the USB port	20:13
lcuk	the heck of it	20:13
Robot101	Khertan: I don't see the problem - you can send and receive SMSes through telepathy	20:14
RST38h	courmisch: ?	20:14
RST38h	Oh ok	20:14
Robot101	even without any magic cellular extra interfaces	20:14
courmisch	the only thing that uses AT is the USB Abstract Communication Modem interface	20:14
courmisch	for compatibility reasons	20:14
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* lcuk tried ordering pizza with telepathy too :)		20:15
pupnik_	i am getting operated-on. n810 at standby :)	20:15
Khertan	Robot101: i didn t know	20:15
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courmisch	you can also talk AT commands by invoking pnatd...	20:15
Khertan	for me telepathy = msn + jabber :)	20:15
courmisch	...but the device supports only one instance at a time	20:15
Robot101	Khertan: courmisch and wjt said like 10 mins ago :)	20:15
Robot101	Khertan: on N900, telepathy = jabber + cellular + skype + sip	20:16
Robot101	and we have IRC, MSN, AIM, etc to download and install	20:16
Khertan	i m looking at the api reference ... slow 3g connection :)	20:17
zaheerm	Robot101, have you or other telepathy guys noticed issues with telepathy-butterfly on n900? i have no idea how to check logs or anything but it seems most of the time it just says network error and sometimes i'm lucky (or not wrt msn) and it has connected	20:17
lcuk	Khertan, did you ever get a scratchbox setup at home	20:18
lcuk	or are you still onboard	20:18
Khertan	lcuk : still onboard :j	20:19
lcuk	how are you finding it on n900 now	20:19
lcuk	have you settled in	20:19
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Khertan	i m still developping a from scratch pygtkeditor	20:20
lcuk	cool!	20:20
lcuk	make sure you post about your progress	20:20
Khertan	but what s annoying me the much currently is that i can t use gtksourceview	20:20
lcuk	whats up with it? the scrollbars?	20:20
Khertan	and show file extension in hildon filechooserdialog	20:21
lcuk	it would be nice to allow them to connect together - use editor on one n900 and debug on another and run code on another	20:21
lcuk	ahh	20:21
Khertan	lcuk : the scrollbar and the fact that slow in a pannablearea	20:21
lcuk	perhaps its something the hildondialogs library could have a look at	20:21
Khertan	this why i ve dev a full python hildoncodebuffer :)	20:21
lcuk	ouch!	20:22
Khertan	and it s works ...	20:22
lcuk	is it possible to reuse the principles from your simplified calendar widget	20:22
lcuk	thats ok then	20:22
Khertan	regex powa	20:22
Khertan	now i m implenting the undo manager	20:23
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Khertan	as there isn t undo in textbuffer	20:23
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Khertan	i really like this n900 :)	20:23
lcuk	how long do you have on the train?	20:23
Khertan	but it s annoying that gtk.filechooser is unusable now on fremantle	20:24
lcuk	yeah, like i say theres a few dialogs that arent right	20:24
lcuk	and if the file select is wrong, it could join with the font and color dialogs	20:24
Khertan	around 4 hours by day ... 3 day by week	20:24
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lcuk	3 days a week isnt so bad	20:25
lcuk	i did an 8hour train stint last week	20:25
lcuk	7	20:25
lcuk	really tested media player	20:25
Khertan	yep two days working at home	20:25
Khertan	~ping	20:26
infobot	~pong	20:26
Khertan	ouch did you have a second battery ?	20:26
Khertan	i test it everyday :)	20:26
lcuk	yeah, next time i go im taking transcoded tv episodes	20:26
lcuk	gonna see how much of a difference they make	20:26
Khertan	the main problem i ve is for playing video with subtitle ... it doesn t read subtitle when they are in a separate file	20:27
lcuk	heh last time i messed with subtitles	20:27
Khertan	so i use mplayer	20:27
lcuk	i edited the file and gave tracy hints about star wars	20:27
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lcuk	mplayer is built now?	20:27
zaheerm	Khertan, that should be easily sorted	20:27
zaheerm	Khertan, what type of external subtitle file is it?	20:28
Khertan	yeah i got it on my n900 so it is :)	20:28
Khertan	zaheerm: don t know ... doznload ... unzip ... use it :)	20:28
Khertan	srt without tag	20:28
zaheerm	Khertan, if you can provide me a sample zip, i can get it working	20:28
zaheerm	then you can use the normal media player and hence dsp optimised codecs	20:29
Khertan	i ve still some difficulty with the qwerty keyboard as you can see :)	20:29
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Khertan	zaheerm really ? where is the trick ?	20:29
Khertan	zaheerm : yep 2s i got the limk	20:30
zaheerm	Khertan, probably no subtitle decoder for your subtitle format installed, so i can build a small package that contains it	20:30
zaheerm	i assume same file plays in totem fine on the desktop right?	20:30
lcuk	DEVELOPERS: there is a small survey going on on t.m.o, PLEASE fill it in	20:32
lcuk	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33974	20:32
Khertan	~ping	20:32
infobot	~pong	20:32
Khertan	yep work fine with totem	20:34
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Jaffa	lcuk: Meh, I'm still on my abstinence kick :-p	20:35
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lcuk	jaffa, get over it, this thread is useful	20:35
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Khertan	zaheerm i can t provide a direct link : but it s available here : http://www.u-sub.net/sous-titres/stargate-universe-152/saison_1/	20:36
Khertan	select one and click on 'Telecharger la selection'	20:37
Jaffa	lcuk: I've looked; can you refine "useful"?	20:37
lcuk	informative then	20:37
lcuk	good to know what devs are actually doing in one place and where they think they are upto	20:37
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Jaffa	More so than looking at -devel in m.o/p/?	20:37
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lcuk	all email is a swrawling wasteland filled with viagra ads and junk	20:38
* Jaffa meant extras-devel user/ packages		20:38
lcuk	yeah tis	20:38
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lcuk	:D the best isp throttling comeback ever :D http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1431486&cid=29985272	20:40
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Khertan	hum auto rotation is funny for a code source editor :)	20:42
* Khertan is still trying to found a way to show extension in hildon.FileChooser		20:43
lcuk	Khertan, how much worse is gtk filechooser	20:43
zaheerm	Khertan, ok so just need to compile the subparse element	20:43
zaheerm	Khertan, give me 1/2 an hour and i will put it in extras-devel or something	20:44
lcuk	~zaheerm++	20:44
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wazd	oh my god, news of the week!	20:47
wazd	Sony invented "apple" keyboard! http://www.joshua-consulting.fr/forum/AlienWare_X505-1.jpg	20:47
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Khertan2	i m back ...browserd crash	20:47
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lcuk	wazd, why is there a bullet hole in the middle of it	20:47
wazd	and macbook air eventually	20:47
wazd	lcuk: that's trackpoint	20:48
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wazd	http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/stb-leasing/cabinet/item/pcg_x505p.jpg	20:48
Khertan2	lcuk : not useable gtk one display only 3 characters	20:48
lcuk	Khertan2, arg	20:48
Khertan2	due to the giant open button theme	20:48
Khertan2	and gtk.recentchooserdialog didn t show anything	20:49
Khertan2	strange	20:49
Khertan2	so an other things to do myself	20:50
zaheerm	my god that post to the poll took a while :)	20:53
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acidjazz	any update on the n900 ship date	21:01
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w00t	acidjazz: what is the last you heard?	21:03
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frals	"pr0xyfl00d3r", wow, havent seen a 'cool' nick like that in a while :)	21:04
VDVsx	w00t, I heard, same release date as duke nukem forever ;)	21:05
* VDVsx hides		21:05
frals	the question is - will it run duke nukem forever? dealbreaker if not tbh!	21:05
w00t	VDVsx: hehe, i was wondering for a while.	21:05
VDVsx	frals, oh yeah, will be one of the pre-installed games ;)	21:06
w00t	frals: sure it will! together with a digital compass so you can duke it out in the real world if you feel like it	21:06
* w00t snerks		21:06
lcuk	VDVsx, of course its the same time, DNF is a launch title on the n900 itself	21:06
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w00t	lcuk: shush, you have an n900	21:06
w00t	;)	21:07
* VDVsx has one too :P		21:07
* w00t puts VDVsx between the crosshairs		21:07
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acidjazz	w00t: nothing, all the maemo forum posts just lost the subject	21:08
VDVsx	Nov 16, was last I heard	21:09
acidjazz	lcuk: howd you get one?	21:09
w00t	acidjazz: well, nokia uk have been saying that shipping starts on the 9th for about the past 2-3 weeks now	21:09
acidjazz	nov 9th?	21:09
acidjazz	ooo	21:09
acidjazz	thast not too far	21:09
zaheerm	nov 9th for preorders	21:09
* w00t nods		21:09
zaheerm	in store probably 14th	21:09
lcuk	acidjazz, get one of what?	21:10
w00t	lcuk: n900	21:10
VDVsx	zaheerm, that's Saturday	21:10
zaheerm	and other countries 16th	21:10
VDVsx	ah	21:10
acidjazz	lcuk: n900	21:10
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lcuk	needed one for this: http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/onedotzero-adventures-in-motion-powered-by-nokia-n900/	21:10
zaheerm	VDVsx, yah we have no life, saturday and sunday are like work days :)	21:10
VDVsx	lol	21:10
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* w00t is personally considering taking the whole of next week off if it arrives.		21:11
VDVsx	acidjazz, I bet that more than 60% of the people here have n900's	21:11
lcuk	nahhh VDVsx	21:11
zaheerm	i have bad news for khertan2, the media player needs to actually set the subtitle-uri :(	21:11
zaheerm	so you'd need another player ui	21:11
zaheerm	even if i get subparse into extras-devek	21:11
zaheerm	devel	21:11
lcuk	zaheerm, at least you tried, is that info able to be documented somewhere	21:12
lcuk	where it wont be lost	21:12
zaheerm	i should do some wiki stuff	21:12
lcuk	its a shame you cannot link pages with projects	21:12
lcuk	in the same way you can link bug reports	21:12
VDVsx	lcuk, well, stars + 300 summiters + nokians + contractors + bloggers = a lot of N900's out there ;)	21:12
lcuk	VDVsx, sure	21:13
lcuk	but 90% of those over there have never said a single word!	21:13
zaheerm	300 summiters, i doubt even 75 are here	21:13
ccooke	There are 387 people here... but how many of them only lurk?	21:14
lcuk	i dont doubt theres a lot	21:14
wazd	VDVsx: not all stars got their n90 btw ;)	21:14
VDVsx	wazd, true :(	21:14
lcuk	ccooke, i was gonna point you out as a lurker, then you spoke	21:14
zaheerm	lcuk, so you didn't get a 2nd n900 at summit did you?	21:14
lcuk	no	21:15
RST38h	ccooke: most.	21:15
ccooke	lcuk: when? now?	21:15
lcuk	zaheerm are you nokia emp?	21:15
lcuk	yeah lol ccooke	21:15
zaheerm	lcuk, nope	21:15
zaheerm	lcuk, i'm just a poor gstreamer dev :)	21:15
zaheerm	with an 770, n810 and now n900	21:16
lcuk	not a bad thing to be :)	21:16
ccooke	zaheerm: nice collection :-)	21:16
lcuk	do all your devices run	21:16
RST38h	http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/saygus-vphone-11-05-09.jpg	21:16
zaheerm	the 770 runs chinook i think, n810 runs diablo, n900 runs fremantle	21:17
zaheerm	but until the n900, i didn't use the devices as much as i would have liked	21:17
lcuk	it would be cool to try and get liqbase on 770 one day (more of an effort than 5 minutes at the 2008 summit)	21:17
ccooke	zaheerm: what was missing?	21:17
lcuk	zaheerm, i use my n900 OUTSIDE!	21:18
zaheerm	i got flumotion running on the n810 and used it quite a bit	21:18
zaheerm	ccooke, cellular connectivity	21:18
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* ccooke would say the n810 is the most successful device he's ever owned. the n900 is better, but might end up being used slightly less.		21:18
zaheerm	also the portability	21:19
zaheerm	i prefer the smaller form factor	21:19
acidjazz	VDVsx: how?? where are they getting em?	21:19
derf	zaheerm: Really (about flumotion)?	21:19
zaheerm	derf, yah i have it running on my n900 already	21:19
derf	Did you make a package for it?	21:19
penguinbait	just notice the browser "tear" is like body fluids and not pronounced like "tare"	21:19
VDVsx	acidjazz, well, Nokia loaned ~300 at the Maemo summit	21:20
lcuk	ccooke, used less?	21:20
penguinbait	thank God for little icons	21:20
acidjazz	what does loaned mean?	21:20
acidjazz	you have to like give it back?	21:20
zaheerm	derf, no at the time i didn't know how to make a debian package :)	21:20
zaheerm	acidjazz, yep, in april	21:20
Jaffa	6 month Product Loan Agreement	21:20
derf	zaheerm: That never stopped anyone else!	21:20
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acidjazz	what happens if you dont	21:20
practisevoodoo_	lcuk, looks like it does but that the device just isnt supported	21:20
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lcuk	practisevoodoo_, ?	21:21
zaheerm	derf, well i plan to make a package for flumotion on fremantle	21:21
derf	Excellent.	21:21
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goodnight	when n900 release party?	21:21
practisevoodoo_	lcuk, i asked a question a couple of hours ago, you answered	21:21
zaheerm	derf, now i actually know how to make them :)	21:21
lcuk	i know that lol, i cant scrollback	21:21
ccooke	lcuk: my n810 I used heavily as an ebook reader.	21:21
lcuk	why wont you use this one as such	21:22
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zaheerm	my n810 i used mainly as an ssh client and as a flumotion admin	21:22
ccooke	I'd probably do the same on the n900, but I was given an ereader last week...	21:22
Jaffa	acidjazz: Nokia claim RRP off you? and never loan any again.	21:22
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* lcuk wants liqbase to operate collaboratively http://liqbase.net/double_tiny.JPG		21:23
lcuk	book reader panning over multiple. droooool	21:23
ccooke	and while I can't use it in the dark, it's much nicer to read than any LCD could be.	21:23
lcuk	and everything else in liqbase	21:23
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Jaffa	Is FBReader Fremantle compatible yet? (properly, I mean)	21:23
ccooke	heh	21:23
ccooke	that would be awful to read on the tube, though :-)	21:23
lcuk	ccooke, not really, change the orientation as you like	21:23
ccooke	I must admit, carrying an epaper device and the n900 is giving me ideas, though	21:23
lcuk	yeah touchable kindle sounds good	21:24
ccooke	lcuk: holding two devices together, in a confined space? Even with hands my size, they'd get dropped :-)	21:24
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lcuk	lol ccooke thats just the principle :P	21:24
ccooke	I'm starting to think of some ideas for the future	21:24
zaheerm	Jaffa, congrats btw Hermes -> extras	21:24
lcuk	ccooke, ive wanted to combine devices for a while	21:24
lcuk	ive been thinking about it more and more recently, having things like code edit in one, designer on another and running on third	21:25
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Jaffa	zaheerm: thanks :)	21:26
ccooke	lcuk: I'm thinking about combining different devices together	21:26
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lcuk	^	21:27
ccooke	epaper devices are great for reading: they're a large size. They're low power, easy to read.	21:27
ccooke	the n900 is a wonderful communicator	21:27
ccooke	it's a control device	21:27
lcuk	cool	21:27
ccooke	So: I want a wifi-enabled epaper device, so I can use it in tandem with the n900	21:28
zaheerm	Jaffa, not sure if anyone has asked you...i have 2 contacts with the same name (diff people) in my contacts (also same in Facebook), one of those's photos got put in both my contacts. is there a way in the summary for undoing an auto-merge to handle this kinda issue?	21:28
ccooke	You've seen the new stuff in mobile firefox, with weave?	21:28
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ccooke	sharing bookmarks between the mobile and desktop firefox.	21:28
ccooke	Something like that, but local and immediate.	21:29
* lcuk nods		21:29
ccooke	(local in addition to the sync with remote servers)	21:29
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ccooke	that basically means a shared locally networked storage area - PAN style, whether bluetooth or via wifi.	21:30
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lcuk	dont like bluetooth	21:30
ccooke	and an app on each device logging what they've looked at to the shared storage.	21:30
ccooke	nor do I exactly, but it's the best current option.	21:31
lcuk	kindle has 3g, does it have wifi too?	21:31
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ccooke	no	21:31
ccooke	but there are ereaders with wifi. Some have bluetooth as well or instead	21:31
ccooke	I've been playing around with the ereader this week and thinking of options.	21:32
ccooke	http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/06/bebook-2-e-reader-revealed-and-in-the-wild-at-cebit-2009/	21:32
ccooke	That's one.	21:32
ccooke	it's supposed to have 3g, too	21:32
lcuk	so which have you been playing with	21:34
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ccooke	I have a prs-505. Not too new, but hey - didn't have to pay for it. And it's a good size and weight.	21:35
ccooke	it's goodd enough for me to realise I'll be buying a better one when I can afford to. And when I do, I'm hoping I'll be able to find one that the n900 can order around :-)	21:36
ccooke	of course, that does mean thinking up an interface that makes sense for it. On the n900 side, that's probably a browser extension	21:37
* ccooke realises he's entirely killed the conversation here. Oops, sorry :-)		21:37
lcuk	no i went looking at the bebook	21:37
Shapeshifter	any good news everyone?	21:38
lcuk	very interesting	21:38
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zaheerm	lcuk, dumped some basic stuff here http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Installing_codecs_for_files_that_don%27t_play_in_Media_Player	21:38
ccooke	lcuk: I'll put some thought into it over the next few months. It's very much a "wait for the hardware to be ready" idea	21:39
lcuk	zaheerm, :D coool	21:39
lcuk	ccooke, if you wait till its ready to start hacking for it ..	21:39
ccooke	lcuk: did I say that? :-)	21:39
lcuk	make your plan, use it on the tech you have (n900)	21:39
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lcuk	and see if it works and use it on ultiple platforms	21:40
lcuk	lol	21:40
* frals bashes head against programming assignments in this java course.. step 1: implement client-server model over tcp. step 2: throw it all away and make it udp-multicast		21:40
lcuk	lol frals	21:40
ccooke	lcuk: no, I'll be looking around very carefully for hardware that might support it... and if all else fails, I've got a few tabs open with parts costs for an epaper display.	21:40
lcuk	better than me, i was asked to use udp to save bandwidth after i made a tcp app	21:40
frals	:D	21:41
lcuk	then i was asked to put delivery checking and retries	21:41
lcuk	facepalm	21:41
ccooke	lcuk: so you quite reasonably used a tcp-in-udp encapsulation, right? :-)	21:42
lcuk	ccooke, i was very tempted to just revert the tcp transport	21:42
frals	lol lcuk :D	21:42
ccooke	lcuk: udp does have some advantages sstill	21:42
lcuk	it does in some scenarios	21:43
GeneralAntilles	andre__, File manager?	21:43
ccooke	Probably none that the people giving you work to do understood, mind, but some :-)	21:43
ccooke	lcuk: the main one being nat traversal, which probably doesn't apply in this case?	21:43
lcuk	ccooke, what OS are you planning on using for the ebook side	21:44
sp3000	romaxa: eh, I'm wrong actually -- current greasemonkey does install fine, I probably had both edition fighting each other before or something	21:44
ccooke	(hmm: http://www.loopygadgets.com/brother-sv-100b-bluetooth-e-reader/ )	21:44
lcuk	no ccooke it was all on the same subnet	21:44
sp3000	romaxa: but the script install ui does fail to launch from either a userscript or the ext settings	21:44
lcuk	and the nat traversal is a hack isnt it	21:44
ccooke	lcuk: if I end up butchering a device for it... I'll probably use a Mer base with custom GUI.	21:45
lcuk	flood the router from both ends	21:45
lcuk	providing you can get x11 on there	21:45
ccooke	lcuk: no fllooding required, actually.	21:45
RST38h	! The Brothers Grimm on TV !	21:46
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ccooke	the nat traversal method usually requires a server somewhere that both ends can talk to, but if you know the IP address of both ends you can get it working with... say, one packet every minute or so in both directions, just to keep the connection up.	21:47
lcuk	i am vanishing anyway. nice chattin with you as usual charles, cyas all later \o	21:47
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ccooke	see you	21:48
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derf	UDP is useful for real-time communication.	21:50
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derf	Where retransmission would just be a waste of bandwidth, because the data would be stale by the time it arrived anyway.	21:51
ccooke	yes.	21:51
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* Stskeeps notes there's a lot of danes coming by this channel.		21:55
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w00t	yes, far too many.	21:56
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AndrewFBlack	you know making a finger friendly website for n900 that looks good on other mobiles devices is hard	21:59
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* Stskeeps hates cross-compilation toolchains.		22:04
* w00t high fives		22:05
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fiferboy	How come just when Jaffa and GeneralAntilles lay off t.m.o it starts getting a record number of visitors?	22:34
aSIMULAtur	good evening maemoystava	22:35
Stskeeps	fiferboy: ow	22:35
Stskeeps	:P	22:35
Stskeeps	evening aSIMULAtur	22:36
fiferboy	Hi aSIMULA*	22:36
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AndrewFBlack	I'm going to regreat this but I have 8 google wave invites if anyone wants one /msg me	22:36
CutMeOwnThroat	wtf is google wave	22:37
CutMeOwnThroat	I find it confusing to google for google services	22:37
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w00t	http://wave.google.com	22:37
AndrewFBlack	kinda of a colaboration software	22:37
w00t	that wasn't so hard, was it? :p	22:37
AndrewFBlack	maemo.org has a wave now also if anyone has wave and wnts to be added to it	22:38
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w00t	AndrewFBlack: pick me, pick me	22:38
Milo-	Which Qt version does Maemo support?	22:38
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aSIMULAtur	ooh google wave i'd like an invite :)	22:38
Milo-	4.5?	22:38
AndrewFBlack	woot 7 left /msg me your email	22:38
lcuk	i have an invite somewhere	22:38
w00t	aSIMULAtur: i'd send you one if I had one	22:38
fiferboy	Milo-: Currenty 4.5.3	22:38
AndrewFBlack	same aSIMULAtur	22:38
lcuk	never bothered	22:38
Milo-	fiferboy thanks	22:38
fiferboy	Milo-: 4.6 coming Q1 2010	22:38
aSIMULAtur	:)	22:39
aSIMULAtur	how is everyone, long time no speak	22:39
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Milo-	fiferboy yeah, but it will be backwards compatible with 4.5 application, I hope?	22:39
CutMeOwnThroat	w00t, it was more, kind of, like, rhetorical, you know :)	22:39
Milo-	they can't change it THAT much :P	22:39
Stskeeps	decent, waiting to see if n900 actually gets released in some days or not :P	22:39
CutMeOwnThroat	w00t, just expressing my disbelieve in the multitude of google services	22:40
Milo-	I think they pushed the release date to December now :P	22:40
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fiferboy	Milo-: It should run anything from 4.0 on	22:40
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fiferboy	Milo-: And there are 3.x compatibility libraries (but I have never tried those out)	22:40
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Stskeeps	finland coming back online or there was a outage somewhere? :P	22:40
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Milo-	I'm from finland, and I didn't die :)	22:41
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AndrewFBlack	5 left if no one here wants them I'll just pick people from t.m.o who wantsthem	22:41
Stskeeps	cos the amount of finns coming in right now is worrying ;)	22:41
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fiferboy	Stskeeps: You're right. That's a lot of .fi joining the channel	22:41
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frals	AndrewFBlack: still got a wave-invite?	22:42
Milo-	*wonders if he should use Qt to get html-page, or use C++	22:42
AndrewFBlack	frals yeah	22:43
luke-jr	Milo-: huh?	22:43
luke-jr	C++ has no support for HTTP/HTML	22:44
inz	Andrew, I'd like one too	22:44
Milo-	just figured that out	22:44
Milo-	Boost does..	22:44
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AndrewFBlack	inz, send me your email	22:44
Milo-	qt it is!	22:44
luke-jr	Milo-: Boost isn't C++	22:45
Milo-	I know	22:45
luke-jr	yet	22:45
luke-jr	:p	22:45
Milo-	hopefully most of it will be soon :)	22:45
luke-jr	anyhow, I'd stick to one language	22:45
luke-jr	Qt or C++	22:45
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Milo-	the user interface has to be made in Qt anyways	22:46
Milo-	so I guess I'll use that..	22:46
luke-jr	Milo-: please consider writing a library or CLI app first, and a GUI in Qt for that ;P	22:46
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Milo-	even a CLI would fail since I need to download a certain webpage for that.	22:48
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Milo-	or I could write a python application and then use qt bindings to show the data	22:50
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VDVsx	aSIMULAtur, still need a invite for wave ? :P	22:55
aep	you got some? oO	22:55
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VDVsx	ah ok, AndrewFBlack also have some ;)	22:56
aSIMULAtur	VDVsx: andrew gave me one i think! :) still haven't gotten it yet...but thanks for hte offer mr same-surname :D	22:56
VDVsx	lol	22:57
VDVsx	aSIMULAtur, it takes about a week, afailk	22:57
VDVsx	*afaik	22:57
aep	VDVsx: would you send one to me?	22:57
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VDVsx	aep, sure, send me your e-amil in pm	22:58
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AndrewFBlack	VDVsx, I have 3 left	22:58
AndrewFBlack	funny thing is until now i havn't heard of 2 generation users getting invites	22:59
VDVsx	AndrewFBlack, I was a GSoC mentor ;)	22:59
VDVsx	GSoC = Google summer of code	22:59
aSIMULAtur	oh, quite long!	23:01
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GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, I feel so much better.	23:19
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: How's that?	23:19
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, same way I felt better after I unsubscribed from -users. ;)	23:20
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fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: Ah! I never subscribed to -users, so I don't know that joy	23:20
GeneralAntilles	fiferboy, loading up Talk to stress myself out every 15 minutes wasn't fun.	23:20
fiferboy	GeneralAntilles: It has all changed since you left. Everything there is really good now. You should go and see for yourself...	23:21
derf	It's unclear to me why anyone would ever do either.	23:21
* GeneralAntilles puts a fork slowly into fiferboy's eye.		23:21
fiferboy	Okay, I deserved that	23:22
fiferboy	Someone has to try it, since qwerty12 isn't around	23:22
* qwerty12_N900 slaps fiferboy.		23:22
b-man17	lol	23:22
lcuk	haha	23:22
fiferboy	I didn't deserve that!	23:22
fiferboy	How am I to know you have been lurking here for 16 hours waiting for someone to mention your name??	23:22
GeneralAntilles	Oh, Comcast is getting more awesome!	23:24
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ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, always innovating new ways to screw you over eh	23:24
GeneralAntilles	I love how their slogan has become synonymous with useless crap.	23:25
ShadowJK	everytime I visit the DX website looking for something I get scared by random stuff, either in: a) they MAKE things like that? or b) How can you ship THAT /from/ china at that price?	23:26
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* qwerty12_N900 laughs at lcuk's empty "Barcamp Manchester this weekend!!" thread. Empty... pretty much sums up Manchester		23:27
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ShadowJK	there's something seriously fucked up when you can get Cat5e cable via AIRMAIL from China cheaper than at a local shop	23:27
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dmj7262	ShadowJK, really?	23:28
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Stskeeps	ShadowJK: local shops are always overpriced	23:28
dmj7262	Does that include cat5e spools to make it yourself?	23:28
ShadowJK	I was looking at readymade cables	23:29
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ShadowJK	or rather, accidentally stumbled on them whilst looking for a non-davicom usb ethernet adapter	23:29
dmj7262	that the readymade ones are overpriced isn't surprising	23:29
lcuk	qwerty12_N900, i tend to agree right now	23:29
lcuk	:P get yourself up to manchester	23:30
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* Stskeeps starts the 13th toolchain compilation of the day.		23:30
lcuk	yikes Stskeeps	23:31
javispedro	since every gcc compiles itself twice or thrice, I guess its more like the 100th compilation of the day :)	23:31
qwerty12_N900	Stskeeps, it shouldn't be you doing it..	23:31
lcuk	why shouldnt it	23:32
javispedro	he should be spamming the TI 3D drivers guy for us instead >:)	23:32
lcuk	+1	23:33
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lcuk	ello again MoonTiger	23:33
lcuk	we are coming your way soon!	23:33
qwerty12_N900	Hint: Run	23:34
* javispedro is planning to do the same		23:34
lcuk	shutup pinocchio	23:34
javispedro	the seychelles islands seem far enough.	23:35
Dantonic	hello	23:35
javispedro	hiyo!	23:35
Dantonic	how goes it?	23:35
* javispedro is enjoying the FAST and BLUE SDK		23:35
qwerty12_N900	Ey up, there	23:36
Dantonic	jaivispedro what's the FAST and BLUE?	23:36
javispedro	FAST=3d accelerated, BLUE=without the weird colors bug	23:37
* javispedro is happy because of that. did I repeat that enough times?		23:37
qwerty12_N900	Poor man's N900? =)	23:37
Stskeeps	what fixed the colors problem?	23:37
Dantonic	I want an N900 damn it!	23:38
javispedro	Stskeeps: more like workarounded. Clutter GLX applied some conversion on pixmaps before uploading them to GL because it wrongly assumed it couldn't send RGB565 "as is".	23:38
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Dantonic	my N800 is taking a royal DUMP!	23:38
lcuk	optimization as well as fixes too!	23:38
Stskeeps	javispedro: report as a bug?	23:39
javispedro	lcuk: take 2 pay 1!	23:39
lcuk	removal of conversion have any speedups?	23:39
javispedro	bug #4870	23:39
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 Red & blue color channels swapped sometimes in SDK	23:39
javispedro	lcuk: a lot	23:39
javispedro	specially when using VMGL	23:39
lcuk	f'ckin A!	23:39
lcuk	nice one	23:39
javispedro	since it's sending half the data through the loopback interface	23:39
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dmj7262	oh, was that why blue and orange flicker in the browser?	23:43
javispedro	lcuk: of course, it does not speedup the device. on GLES it is assumed it'll handle 5_6_5	23:43
javispedro	dmj7261: exactly.	23:43
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dmj7262	ah...I thought that was weird.	23:43
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lcuk	javispedro, i know its not on the device, but optimizations tot he sdk that many people have said performs badly is a good thing (TM)	23:44
lcuk	and enough of them mean you can use laptop for longer :D	23:44
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javispedro	the greatest speedup comes from using vmgl.	23:45
javispedro	fixing this while still using the software renderer will have a measly improvement.	23:45
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javispedro	(aka 2x of very slow = very slow ;) )	23:46
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zaheerm-lp	homeasvs_, evening :)	23:46
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tekonivel	can't wait for n900 (i guess nobody can), my n95 is driving me up the wall	23:51
wazd	some retro concept: http://s51.radikal.ru/i131/0911/7d/f39db42d5c70.png	23:51
javispedro	argh :)	23:52
SpeedEvil	wazd: And it fades the station in over 40s.	23:52
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javispedro	way too retro for my liking	23:52
tekonivel	met two ppl today who have the device. the other had been to the summit, the other works for nokia	23:52
tekonivel	did anyone of you know that Nokia is a small town in Finland btw?	23:53
javispedro	tekonivel: and you didn't kill any of them?	23:53
Stskeeps	yes :P	23:53
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Stskeeps	i still regret not getting nokian rubber boots when i saw them getting sold in HEL	23:53
javispedro	yes, known for their public utility problems	23:53
Stskeeps	:P	23:53
tekonivel	and they make tyres. i've got a Nokia studded tyre for my bike (i should install it btw, today was icy in the morning)	23:53
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wazd	they have two separate brands	23:53
tekonivel	also, back in the day "a nokia" was a batong the cops used to use	23:54
wazd	nokiaN and nokia	23:54
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Stskeeps	wazd: still fun :P	23:54
tekonivel	Stskeeps: those boots are great!	23:54
wazd	also nokia makes TV's	23:54
tekonivel	Stskeeps: everyone here has a pair, we've had them since childhood	23:54
* Stskeeps is happy about the mumin cup he bought though		23:55
tekonivel	wazd: all this electronics is relatively new to them	23:55
* lcuk didnt have time for shopping last time he was in hel		23:55
wazd	http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/18/82/4b/nokia-tv.jpg :D	23:55
wazd	yeah, I can see some oled stuff here :D	23:55
lcuk	its the first city i cant actually remember much about	23:55
tekonivel	well, they made fixed line modems and other network things in the 1980s	23:55
qwerty12_N900	wazd: Nokia made one of the best Cable recievers ever: DBOX2	23:55
wazd	also they chop wood :D	23:56
tekonivel	lcuk: lol	23:56
tekonivel	Stskeeps: oh the moomin cups...	23:56
tekonivel	Stskeeps: that's a bit of a phenomenon in certain circles.. ;) ;) ;)	23:56
qwerty12_N900	lcuk: I bet the chopping of your finger must've cut time short	23:57
qwerty12_N900	OK, horrible joke	23:57
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lcuk	yeah that was a bit crap :P	23:57
lcuk	even by your standards	23:57
tekonivel	Stskeeps: girl couples might go ring the doorbell of the dude next door or some friend with a moomin cup, in the pursuit of getting a kid	23:58
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javispedro	how to programmatically get the xid of a window I just created?	23:58
javispedro	err... in a bash script :)	23:58
Stskeeps	tekonivel: scary	23:58
lcuk	lol @ Stskeeps now buying a hoard of them and filling his windowsill in the hopes of lesbian groupies converging on his pad	23:59
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