| GeekShad__ | I got a question, which format maemo use to record with the microphone ? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| RST38h | jeremiah: next time you plan something like that, factor in human behavior | 00:00 |
| jeremiah | Yes sir. | 00:00 |
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| RST38h | not that it is too late to consider it for THIS attempt =) | 00:00 |
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| jeremiah | It is all going to work out, the process is not that hard and we can make it easier and smoother | 00:01 |
| jeremiah | :) | 00:01 |
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| RST38h | Heard that one before, long time ago in fact | 00:01 |
| lcuk | wazd, considering that device is MT its needing a lot of pressure to get feedback, or is that only him? | 00:01 |
| jeremiah | Well, there seems to be some vague consensus that it does force one to make better software. | 00:01 |
| lcuk | the pinch he did was awfully executed | 00:02 |
| azorian | hi, what would be the recommende options for video playing using mplayer on a nokia 810? (without reencoding the videos) | 00:02 |
| RST38h | Rather than admiring great strategic vision, can I suggest a few tactical tricks? | 00:02 |
| jeremiah | GeekShad__: I am not sure about the codec used to record sound. | 00:02 |
| jeremiah | GeekShad__: You might record something, then see if you can find out what type of file it is | 00:02 |
| GeekShad__ | jeremiah, I don't own maemo device :/ | 00:03 |
| jeremiah | azorian: There is loads of video playing software, take your pick! | 00:03 |
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| GeekShad__ | jeremiah, I'm a fennec addon develloper | 00:03 |
| jeremiah | GeekShad__: Ah okay. | 00:03 |
| jeremiah | Aren't you guys calling it firefox for mobile now or something? | 00:03 |
| jeremiah | No more fennec? | 00:03 |
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| GeekShad__ | jeremiah, yep it will be firefox mobile | 00:03 |
| jeremiah | okay, cool | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, thanks for that email. | 00:04 |
| dmj7261 | any plans to bring firefox to other phone platforms, haven't heard anything to that effect? | 00:04 |
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| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Thank you for your reasoned commentary. | 00:04 |
| lcuk | wazd, also, the hidden gestures. you can see him pausing on each screen and wondering which to use. | 00:04 |
| GeekShad__ | dmj7261, they may target android | 00:04 |
| azorian | jerimiah: yeah, but right now mplayer is the only one i can use since I'm playin video from the command line. I just need to know what are the best command line options that people have found on the n810. -vo xv? what about audio output? etc. | 00:04 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: People like you are invaluable in any community. | 00:04 |
| lardman | hey jeremiah | 00:04 |
| dmj7261 | wouldn't that take a rewrite in java? | 00:05 |
| lardman | jeremiah: can you remove things from extras-devel? | 00:05 |
| GeekShad__ | dmj7261, i'm not sure | 00:05 |
| jeremiah | lardman: Yes indeedy! | 00:05 |
| lardman | cool | 00:05 |
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| lardman | wipe the lot! | 00:05 |
| lardman | oh, no, I meant just a couple of things, let me find the names | 00:05 |
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| GeekShad__ | so anybody know the audio record format ? anyone with a device can look ? | 00:05 |
| jeremiah | heh | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, reactions like just aren't productive. | 00:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | s/like/like that/ | 00:06 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: jeremiah, reactions like that just aren't productive. | 00:06 |
| jeremiah | I agree, though I understand the frustration a bit. | 00:07 |
| lcuk | lardman, +1 extras-devel SHOULD perhaps be wiped | 00:07 |
| lcuk | give apps 40 days to be tested | 00:07 |
| lcuk | then boot em | 00:07 |
| lcuk | 30* | 00:07 |
| jeremiah | azorian: I unfortunately am not the right person to ask. :/ | 00:07 |
| lardman | jeremiah: ethos http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/e/ethos/ there are 3 groups of files in there, by date, could you wipe the first two groups? | 00:07 |
| * RST38h pacifies lcuk | 00:07 | |
| jeremiah | No worries - lardman told me to wipe the repos and I did! | 00:07 |
| VDVsx | wazd, moto droid sucks, only 256mb to install apps :P | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, sure, but it's not like it's a process that isn't responsive to input. ;) | 00:07 |
| lardman | oops | 00:07 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: 70MB, some say | 00:08 |
| lcuk | lol lardman | 00:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, I could see it being justified when dealing with, say, Nokia. | 00:08 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Exactly! All we need is input and some constructive criticism. | 00:08 |
| lcuk | you could use this to your advantage | 00:08 |
| jeremiah | lardman: Okay, which grouping of ethos? | 00:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the pouting just doesn't help here. | 00:08 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: I do not believe you listen to constructive criticism =) | 00:08 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Not yours anyway. :P | 00:08 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, maybe, perhaps already has some apps installed, the whole space is 256mb | 00:08 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: So I figured | 00:08 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Free space is said to be ~70MB | 00:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, OS is on there. | 00:09 |
| lardman | jeremiah: well you could just wipe them all and I'll upload again, but otherwise I want to keep the latest group of files | 00:09 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: What criticism do you have, I'm happy to listen. :) | 00:09 |
| lardman | for me the latest ones all read 03.11.2009 17:56 | 00:09 |
| jeremiah | lardman: Okay, I'll wipe out the ethos files and remove the earliest by date. | 00:09 |
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| RST38h | jaremiah: Well, first, neither voting UI nor product information editing UI work right now | 00:09 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, I read 512mb, 1/2 for the OS and the other half for apps, not sure :) | 00:09 |
| qwerty12_N900 | I say to hell with extras-testing and extras-devel: everything uploaded should go straight to Extras | 00:10 |
| * lcuk jumped back in | 00:10 | |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, ah, interesting. | 00:10 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, all that is coded by Niels and I don't want to re-code it without him. | 00:10 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N900: and stop lardman from uploading too to avoid breaking things? | 00:10 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Whatever people say about maemo.org being under heavy load, 5 people voting on apps should NOT cause the server to delay responses for minutes | 00:10 |
| lcuk | well qwerty, the download accept will have your personal phone number and email address | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's NOT just 5 people. :) | 00:10 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yes, very fair criticism. | 00:10 |
| lcuk | infact, thats not a bad idea | 00:10 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lardman: Nah, you're VIP, you're always on the front page... | 00:11 |
| RST38h | General: It is. I am talking about a very specific use case | 00:11 |
| lardman | jeremiah: also, could you wipe all of libchamplain please: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libc/libchamplain/ | 00:11 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N900: ;) | 00:11 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: But, you will see a HUGE change once we up our infrastructure by the power of 10! | 00:11 |
| lcuk | lol see lardman | 00:11 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: I doubt it :( | 00:11 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: I promise. | 00:11 |
| jeremiah | I guarantee | 00:11 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lcuk: Number: 999. E-mail: lcuksux@whatever.com | 00:11 |
| lardman | jeremiah: and emerillon also: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/e/emerillon/ | 00:11 |
| lcuk | RST38h, im betting its specific queries | 00:11 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: The current dynamics seem to indicate that there is some problem with the coding rather than resources (although that too) | 00:11 |
| jeremiah | lardman: okay dude. Were you on crack today? | 00:11 |
| lcuk | based on specific subsets of stuff in the new packages area | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, lardman is always on crack. | 00:12 |
| lardman | well I used a stupid naming scheme | 00:12 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: We are going to move the repos to separate machines, generally scale out horizontally | 00:12 |
| w00t | no web application should cause that kind of delay really | 00:12 |
| qwerty12_N900 | jeremiah: (He also wants you to remove his upload rights, too) | 00:12 |
| lardman | so I may as well wipe the slate clean and start again | 00:12 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: My second suggestion is to decrease the Extras promotion threshold to 5 votes for now | 00:12 |
| w00t | (unless it has a problem) | 00:12 |
| lcuk | w00t, you havent used maps | 00:12 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Notice "for now". | 00:12 |
| jeremiah | I am just going to shut down garage until Niels gets back - then he can deal with you lot. | 00:12 |
| lbt | has anyonw found they can't play back video recorded on the device? | 00:12 |
| lardman | lol | 00:12 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: The problem is that users are generally lazy and they will not vote on apps even when using them | 00:12 |
| lcuk | lbt, whilst the tracker is ummm tracking | 00:12 |
| lcuk | theres a delay | 00:13 |
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| jeremiah | RST38h: That is potentially a real problem. | 00:13 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: You can easily see this by looking at votes in Diablo Downloads | 00:13 |
| lcuk | look for me ranting in some ML or another about "we are maemo" recordings | 00:13 |
| w00t | lcuk: no, I haven't, I do have a fair amount of experience in the field though | 00:13 |
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| RST38h | jeremiah: Compare numbers of votes to numbers of downloads | 00:13 |
| lcuk | w00t, its bad in the cities too | 00:13 |
| lbt | lcuk: yeah, that must have been it | 00:13 |
| lbt | it plays now | 00:13 |
| lardman | Does anyone else thing it would be useful to be able to withdraw ones own packages from extras-devel, as long as nothing depends on them? | 00:13 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Well that ratio is always going to be a bit asymetrical. | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, yes. | 00:13 |
| lbt | it came up "unsupported format" | 00:13 |
| lcuk | lbt, and it really gets its knickers in a twist | 00:14 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: So, judging from the current vote numbers in Extras-Testing, it makes sense to lower threshold to 5 votes and see what happens | 00:14 |
| lcuk | if you do multiple really short clips | 00:14 |
| jeremiah | I will propose we drop the threshold to 5 days. | 00:14 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Does not look like there will be a disaster | 00:14 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lardman: Yes. We need protection from your stuff | 00:14 |
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| jeremiah | I will send an email to the list(s) about that and see if we can't get that done. | 00:14 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N900: oi! | 00:14 |
| lcuk | speaking of which - a few folks had an email from me last night, has anyone had a go (mail me back or pm me please) | 00:14 |
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| * jeremiah goes to erase all of larman's hard work today. | 00:15 | |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah go on then | 00:15 |
| lardman | jeremiah: not all, leave some of ethos behind :) | 00:15 |
| jeremiah | heh | 00:15 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: javispedro also has been having troubles with packages that are not apps but required by apps | 00:15 |
| lardman | or just get rid and I'll upload again | 00:15 |
| lardman | :) | 00:15 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: but I can't say much about it, he has more info | 00:16 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, we have been going through some of that on the lists, hhedberg had an issue there too | 00:16 |
| javispedro | hey, prove that extras-testing works by voting BOTH http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/openttd/0.7.3-1maemo1 and http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/openttd-opengfx/0.1.1 | 00:16 |
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| lcuk | great! i will send you another mail, theres incentives coming i believe | 00:16 |
| lcuk | does the webcam we got from skype work anywhere other than skype btw | 00:17 |
| jeremiah | I am right in my statement that while the process is klunky and not perfect, it does help improve software somewhat? | 00:17 |
| qwerty12_N900 | javispedro: I'ma feel sorry for you everytime you put out an update | 00:17 |
| Flandry | i can't find the document that describes what signals an app should respond to when it is minimized. Anyone point me the right direction? | 00:17 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: At the moment, I doubt it :) | 00:17 |
| lcuk | flandry, just a mo | 00:17 |
| VDVsx | lardman, the dev should also have the ability to remove thinks from -testing, I proposed that on the Q&A buzz | 00:17 |
| jeremiah | Well I have heard some noises in that direction. | 00:17 |
| lcuk | i documented a patch yesterday | 00:18 |
| javispedro | don't worry. Maemo.org will selfdestruct before the next openttd version because TEN people will try to vote at the same time | 00:18 |
| RST38h | Diablo Extras are pretty stable too at the moment, and they are not even using the QA mechanism | 00:18 |
| lcuk | Flandry, http://pastebin.com/f53ed4882 | 00:18 |
| qwerty12_N900 | TEN?! The 770s will blow up. | 00:18 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, 100% | 00:18 |
| ShadowJK | someone made diablo gainroot spew warnings | 00:18 |
| Flandry | thanks | 00:18 |
| lcuk | yes the process WILL improve apps | 00:18 |
| lcuk | its like buying a new pair of shoes tho | 00:19 |
| lcuk | takes a bit of time to wear in | 00:19 |
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| RST38h | probably, yes | 00:19 |
| lcuk | once you know the hoops needed, you jump | 00:19 |
| lcuk | without thinking | 00:20 |
| lcuk | we have been lax | 00:20 |
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| jeremiah | lcuk: Well said. | 00:20 |
| lardman | VDVsx: glad it's not just me who thinks that then :) | 00:20 |
| lardman | and GAN of course | 00:20 |
| jeremiah | so lardy, you wanna keep the versions with git in them correct? | 00:20 |
| lcuk | of course jeremiah i really dislike parts of the testing | 00:20 |
| lcuk | but now that we can point testers at a whole list of apps | 00:20 |
| lcuk | and say try a bunch of those | 00:20 |
| lardman | yes please | 00:20 |
| lcuk | and they come back with info | 00:20 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: Yeah, but hopefully we can fix it. | 00:21 |
| * lcuk nods | 00:21 | |
| lcuk | we must. | 00:21 |
| javispedro | yes, because people are apphungry. | 00:21 |
| VDVsx | jeremiah, btw, you'll announce the Q&A meeting, right ? :) | 00:21 |
| * lcuk nods | 00:21 | |
| jeremiah | VDVsx: Yes indeed, still composing the email. :) | 00:22 |
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| VDVsx | jeremiah, ah, np, just checking ;) | 00:22 |
| * javispedro found a fansite that is mirroring "maemo apps" by putting the .install apps in rapidshare | 00:22 | |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Oh, one more thing: it has been widely discussed that once the package gets into Extras, updates to it should require less votes | 00:22 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, we have been discussing that mechanism on the lists | 00:22 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Not having that pretty much punishes developers actively updating their products | 00:22 |
| jeremiah | And we are talking about keeping karma. | 00:22 |
| lcuk | is there a difference between an app which gets an update 3 days after the last one and an app that gets an update 6 months later | 00:22 |
| jeremiah | So yeah, that is something everyone is looking at. | 00:23 |
| lcuk | RST38h, continuously need forecourt salespeople | 00:23 |
| kalikianatoli | javispedro, "mirroring" by having textual references to repositories? ouch :) | 00:23 |
| lcuk | to introduce the apps to a new crowd | 00:23 |
| javispedro | kalikianatoli: exactly. | 00:23 |
| lcuk | when it was the existing users who detected the problem | 00:23 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: this gets too complicated | 00:24 |
| lcuk | yeah does | 00:24 |
| lcuk | the date thing shouldnt tho | 00:24 |
| lcuk | nice and simple | 00:24 |
| lcuk | you are updating updating updating, your karma should remain | 00:24 |
| lcuk | cos you are working on it | 00:24 |
| lcuk | but 6 months later, why shouldnt it be retested | 00:24 |
| javispedro | and I don't agree with the weird ideas about using the packaging version | 00:25 |
| javispedro | native apps won't change the -0maemoX version | 00:25 |
| lcuk | me neither | 00:25 |
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| lcuk | app devs use totally random versions | 00:25 |
| Flandry | lcuk: where did you find that documented? I remember reading it somewhere. My app doesn't use gtk :/ | 00:25 |
| javispedro | ports changing the -0maemoX might mean drastical changes. | 00:25 |
| lcuk | Flandry, irc discussion | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I get the sense that some of these people feel like their toes are being stepped on. | 00:25 |
| lcuk | what does it use | 00:25 |
| Flandry | sdl | 00:25 |
| kalikianatoli | hrm... emerillon isn't integrated at all :-/ | 00:25 |
| kalikianatoli | <-- disappointed | 00:26 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles indeed | 00:26 |
| lcuk | and i see the point | 00:26 |
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| kalikianatoli | the irony is that it is blindingly fast and unlike maps, works | 00:26 |
| javispedro | Flandry: "minimized"? read about SDL events, specially ACTIVATE. | 00:26 |
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| Flandry | it runs fullscreen, so i basically meant loss of focus i guess | 00:27 |
| lcuk | kalikianatoli, in -devel ? | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N900 | GeneralAntilles: I guess it's quite the change... From being able to promote anything in chinook/diablo. Of course, this is what helped Extras to be full of stuff that does not need to be there. Like libraries in user/ | 00:27 |
| lcuk | yes Flandry | 00:27 |
| jeremiah | I just saw emerillion go into the repos recently . . . | 00:27 |
| lcuk | you just killed it didnt you | 00:27 |
| lcuk | ahh no, you were killing lardmans ethos | 00:28 |
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| kalikianatoli | lcuk, yep | 00:28 |
| qwerty12_N900 | I always knew jeremiah was a murderer | 00:28 |
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| lardman | kalikianatoli: am working on it, hold your horses! | 00:28 |
| jeremiah | kill! | 00:28 |
| Flandry | so SDL knows when it loses focus? | 00:28 |
| javispedro | Flandry: yes. | 00:28 |
| lardman | jeremiah: actually, can you purge all of libchamplain, just realised there was a mistake in there too | 00:28 |
| Flandry | kthnx | 00:28 |
| jeremiah | lardman: Sure. | 00:29 |
| javispedro | I would link to the SDL_ActiveEvent docs if I had a URL. | 00:29 |
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| lardman | thanks | 00:29 |
| kalikianatoli | lardman, oohh, I'll try to but my horse is hot-blooded. :D | 00:29 |
| lcuk | lol lardman just like that! | 00:30 |
| jeremiah | libchamplain is gone, it is an ex-library, it has gone to meet its maker | 00:30 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, can you delete qwerty12_N900 please | 00:30 |
| lcuk | errr sorry | 00:30 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, can you purge qwerty12_N900 please | 00:30 |
| jeremiah | rm -rf qwerty12_N900 | 00:30 |
| lcuk | thx | 00:30 |
| jeremiah | rm -rf qwerty* | 00:30 |
| Flandry | ha | 00:30 |
| qwerty12_N900 | jeremiah, liq* needs removing | 00:30 |
| jeremiah | Doesn't seem to be working. | 00:30 |
| qwerty12_N900 | I'll make a new package in its place: liqtrash | 00:31 |
| lardman | great thanks, will replace it with a bigger and better version | 00:31 |
| jeremiah | Pronounced: Lick Trash. | 00:31 |
| Flandry | hope you brought TRON along to help you qwerty | 00:31 |
| * lcuk is preparing eureka right now :) | 00:31 | |
| lardman | or a right-er version | 00:31 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Here lies the remains of what was some odd OS, liqbase | 00:31 |
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| javispedro | liqeureka | 00:32 |
| lcuk | no | 00:32 |
| * lardman wonders if lcuk is in therefore the bath | 00:32 | |
| lcuk | just eureka | 00:32 |
| lcuk | its just another small app :) | 00:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lcuk: I'd run | 00:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lardman seems interested to know if you're in the bath | 00:33 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Try and avoid any bushes | 00:33 |
| lcuk | of course he is, we could have a pint | 00:33 |
| lcuk | simon is in bath too | 00:33 |
| lardman | bath of red wine | 00:33 |
| lcuk | bleugh | 00:33 |
| lardman | s/bath/haze | 00:33 |
| * javispedro reads about someone voting down some app because it would be hard to port to maemo6 | 00:34 | |
| lcuk | yeah | 00:34 |
| lcuk | was a typo | 00:34 |
| lcuk | meant to say winme | 00:34 |
| javispedro | a bath of red Windows ME? | 00:35 |
| * javispedro sees it was just a misunderstanding | 00:35 | |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Blue Windows Me | 00:35 |
| qwerty12_N900 | After all, BSODs were its speciality... | 00:35 |
| javispedro | would Windows ME pass Maemo QA? | 00:36 |
| javispedro | s/Maemo/-testing | 00:36 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Yeah | 00:36 |
| javispedro | start the flames! | 00:36 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: it would pass QA because in true Microsoft fashion they would just bump the version number from 4.2 to 4.3 and say in changelog "just cosmetic minor upgrade", thus inheriting previous version karma | 00:37 |
| lcuk | +1 | 00:37 |
| * jeremiah clubs javispedro | 00:37 | |
| lcuk | and tick the box! | 00:38 |
| * jeremiah clubs lcuk | 00:38 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | javispedro: Hehe... I was thinking more along the lines: lcuk would rig the system and consistently vote it up because it said "Windows" in the name | 00:38 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N900: how do I get automake to run using cdbs? | 00:39 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Don't ask me, I hate the shit | 00:39 |
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| jeremiah | qwerty12_N900: Good answer. :) | 00:39 |
| jeremiah | That is my answer too. | 00:40 |
| lardman | lol | 00:40 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Hehe | 00:40 |
| javispedro | lardman: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/autotools.mk this exists, but then... I don't what it does. | 00:40 |
| javispedro | s/don't/don't know | 00:40 |
| javispedro | possibly fscking your source tree and hiding your car keys | 00:40 |
| kalikianatoli | ^^ http://cdbs-doc.duckcorp.org/en/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id490459 | 00:41 |
| jeremiah | But aside from that it should work. | 00:41 |
| lardman | javispedro: thanks :) | 00:41 |
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| lardman | hmm, and how to go from Makefile.in to Makefile? | 00:42 |
| lardman | bloody debian packaging breaking things | 00:42 |
| * javispedro proceds to vote down all -testing apps because they don't work in his N810. | 00:42 | |
| * qwerty12_N900 goes to start a thread on -developers about javispedro | 00:43 | |
| javispedro | s/javispedro/banning javispedro :) | 00:43 |
| RST38h | They installed Windows 7 on a clean machine with no anti-virus protection with User Access Control in its default configuration. They threw at it the next 10 virus/worm samples that came in the door. Seven of them ran; UAC stopped only one baddie that had run in the absense of UAC. | 00:43 |
| javispedro | Windows 7 UAC was seriously fscked. | 00:44 |
| RST38h | is. | 00:44 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Windows 7: | 00:44 |
| kalikianatoli | lardman, autotools.mk will try to run "configure" for you | 00:44 |
| qwerty12_N900 | *? | 00:44 |
| qwerty12_N900 | It served no useful purpose in Vista | 00:44 |
| lcuk | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=364875&postcount=14 | 00:45 |
| lardman | kalikianatoli: in a sub dir I have no Makefile (just .am/.in) and it's moaning about not finding target 'all' | 00:45 |
| lcuk | :D | 00:45 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: well, it seemed like they finally were going to teach a lesson to all those damn developers writing all over Program Files. | 00:45 |
| javispedro | but I guess Ballmer doesn't have the balls anymore... developers developers developers! | 00:46 |
| * frals grabs lcuk's n900 and runs for it | 00:46 | |
| kalikianatoli | lardman, then your build scripts must be wrong, in a normal build they should generate those files | 00:46 |
| lcuk | frals, mind the door! | 00:46 |
| qwerty12_N900 | javispedro: Be careful: You may find a chair heading your way for that comment... | 00:46 |
| javispedro | lcuk: and you told us that story that the finger cut was an "accident"... | 00:46 |
| *** mardi__ has joined #maemo | 00:47 | |
| lardman | kalikianatoli: as I said before, damned debianisation! ;) | 00:47 |
| kalikianatoli | lardman, well, autotools + debian is a bit like salt on a wound I agree :) | 00:47 |
| * javispedro dodges flying chair. then proceeds to write preinst script that writes in both /home/user and /opt | 00:48 | |
| lcuk | kalikianatoli, our debmaster is here | 00:48 |
| lcuk | and hes skilled in martial arts | 00:48 |
| lcuk | javispedro, theres a preinst? | 00:48 |
| *** fluff is now known as fluff|afk | 00:48 | |
| javispedro | lcuk: preinst postinst prerm postrm | 00:48 |
| lardman | hmm, this is annoying as it built once, but never again | 00:48 |
| javispedro | BURN | 00:49 |
| qwerty12_N900 | echo "javispedro woz here 2k9" >> /home/user/.profile | 00:49 |
| javispedro | Build Uonce Run Never | 00:49 |
| javispedro | / TODO: Fix Uonce typo | 00:49 |
| lcuk | // TOD: teach javis to add extra slashes to irc comment jokes | 00:49 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 00:49 | |
| javispedro | lcuk: I discovered what double slashes did in IRC because someone made that glaring omission | 00:50 |
| woglinde | lol | 00:50 |
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| *** hvelarde|away is now known as hvelarde|stealth | 00:51 | |
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| lcuk | hvelarde|stealth we can still see you | 00:52 |
| hvelarde|stealth | lcuk: ;-) | 00:52 |
| javispedro | he definitely needs a better firewall | 00:52 |
| hvelarde|stealth | I'm in stealth mode not for you, but for my boss | 00:53 |
| lardman | so really, what command does one run on a Makefile.in to produce a Makefile? | 00:53 |
| lardman | configure? | 00:53 |
| javispedro | uh? automake? | 00:53 |
| javispedro | no, configure. | 00:54 |
| javispedro | :P | 00:54 |
| javispedro | maybe you missed the Makefiles in AC_OUTPUT | 00:54 |
| *** mtnman has joined #maemo | 00:54 | |
| mtnman | hello | 00:54 |
| * lcuk tried to dredge up his autotools knowledge | 00:54 | |
| lardman | I didn't do anything, the debianisaton broke itself after one run through | 00:55 |
| lcuk | why havent we got a gnumaster | 00:55 |
| * lardman knows where to cast the blame | 00:55 | |
| lcuk | can we get RMS in here and see if he can help explain autotools :D | 00:56 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lardman: So do we, so do we | 00:56 |
| lardman | oi, bloody thing was working, now it's broken | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | some people just write configure scripts by hand instead of figuring out autotools | 00:57 |
| javispedro | lardman: time to "autoremake -vism" | 00:57 |
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| lardman | I only have autoreconf | 00:58 |
| wazd | The first thing I did when I got an N900 in my hands - I woke up :D | 00:58 |
| javispedro | lardman: yeah, that will do. | 00:58 |
| *** mikkov__ has joined #maemo | 00:58 | |
| javispedro | or corrupt your source tree and donate all your money to the FSF. | 00:58 |
| javispedro | who knows. | 00:58 |
| javispedro | last time I tried to run that I think some partition on my hdd was formated with reiserfs. | 00:59 |
| lardman | failed | 00:59 |
| javispedro | "failed" -- that's it? | 00:59 |
| javispedro | well, they say unix utilities have to be terse, but... | 00:59 |
| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/emerillon/ | 00:59 |
| lardman | libchamplain | 00:59 |
| lardman | [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/build/map-friends/libchamplain/libchamplain-0.4.2] > autoreconf | 01:00 |
| lardman | aclocal: macro `gl_FUNC_ARGZ' required but not defined | 01:00 |
| lardman | autoreconf2.50: aclocal failed with exit status: 1 | 01:00 |
| lardman | to be more exact | 01:00 |
| javispedro | can it build outside scratchbox? | 01:00 |
| lardman | no idea | 01:00 |
| lardman | but it did build inside once, so I hope it will again | 01:00 |
| javispedro | my sbox is busy at the moment | 01:00 |
| lardman | np, qwerty12_N900! ;) | 01:00 |
| woglinde | lardman year autotools dont find gl_FUNC_ARGZ m4-macro | 01:01 |
| lardman | I bet it just builds for him too | 01:01 |
| *** javispedro is now known as qwerty12_N920 | 01:01 | |
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| lardman | woglinde: still doens't mean much to me I'm afraid :) | 01:01 |
| *** qwerty12_N920 is now known as javispedro | 01:01 | |
| javispedro | lardman: you're linking with clutter 1.0 | 01:02 |
| javispedro | the device has 0.8 | 01:02 |
| javispedro | but 1.0 is in extras-devel iirc | 01:02 |
| woglinde | ah so its a gl macro | 01:03 |
| lardman | yes | 01:03 |
| woglinde | defined by clutter | 01:03 |
| javispedro | an autoconf macro? never seen that. | 01:03 |
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| * javispedro blesses dget -x | 01:03 | |
| woglinde | aclocal: macro `gl_FUNC_ARGZ' required but not defined | 01:04 |
| javispedro | an autoconf clutter macro, should I've said. | 01:04 |
| woglinde | ah its comming from newer libtool | 01:04 |
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| woglinde | argz.m4 | 01:05 |
| *** cure` has joined #maemo | 01:05 | |
| woglinde | AC_DEFUN([gl_FUNC_ARGZ], | 01:05 |
| woglinde | so you need libtool2 | 01:05 |
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| woglinde | hm | 01:05 |
| woglinde | which libtool version fremantle has? | 01:05 |
| javispedro | 1.5.26-4 | 01:06 |
| woglinde | wtf? | 01:06 |
| woglinde | everyone uses libtool2 now | 01:06 |
| woglinde | *sigh* | 01:06 |
| woglinde | okay | 01:06 |
| javispedro | fremantle is still a fork of debian ... sarge? | 01:06 |
| lardman | ah don't worry about it, just can never be recompiled | 01:06 |
| woglinde | maybee its enough to remove local libtool.m4 macros | 01:06 |
| woglinde | I did this often enough for chinook-compat in oe | 01:07 |
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| lardman | jeremiah: did you scrub those files? Just wondering as I'm going to upload some replacements | 01:07 |
| woglinde | lardman look out for argz.m4 | 01:07 |
| woglinde | ltoptions.m4 | 01:07 |
| woglinde | ltsugar.m4 ltversion.m4 lt~obsolete.m4 | 01:07 |
| woglinde | remove them | 01:07 |
| woglinde | and run autoreconf again | 01:07 |
| lardman | remove in my make clean? | 01:08 |
| lardman | debian/rules clean even | 01:08 |
| woglinde | nope | 01:08 |
| woglinde | after unpacking | 01:08 |
| woglinde | before running autoreconf | 01:09 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders how he got on both the Disney and WalMart mailing lists. | 01:09 | |
| lardman | ok, thanks, will take a look | 01:09 |
| woglinde | general bambi | 01:09 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: buying Bambi from Walmart and filling in the warranty card...? ;) | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn! | 01:09 |
| Flandry | I'm looking at the SDL ActiveEvent documentation. When a fullscreen app in Maemo gets bumped back to a small icon in task switcher mode, is that just a loss of focus, or a loss of activity? | 01:09 |
| woglinde | lardman *5* | 01:09 |
| woglinde | Flandry why you need SDl? | 01:10 |
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| Flandry | it's what the game i'm porting uses | 01:10 |
| javispedro | (curiosity) the game is? | 01:11 |
| Flandry | i'm trying to make it pause when out of focus | 01:11 |
| javispedro | Flandry: I'd consider the dashboard window being over "loss of focus" | 01:11 |
| wazd | ooops, just deleted HTC icons x( | 01:11 |
| Flandry | it's the star control 2 /ur quan masters game in extras-devel | 01:11 |
| woglinde | hm star control | 01:11 |
| woglinde | yes | 01:11 |
| tekonivel | ur quan jess!! | 01:12 |
| * Moo___ sends GO GO GO to tekonivel | 01:12 | |
| Flandry | ha | 01:13 |
| Flandry | Orz are among us | 01:13 |
| Moo___ | *happy campers* wherE? | 01:13 |
| qwerty12_N900 | They must be destroyed | 01:13 |
| Flandry | indeed | 01:13 |
| * javispedro NEEDS 3d drivers | 01:13 | |
| * lcuk needs 4d drivers | 01:13 | |
| * Moo___ needs drivers | 01:14 | |
| woglinde | hm was it star control where could turn your man into fuel? | 01:14 |
| Moo___ | woglinde: yes | 01:14 |
| qwerty12_N900 | javispedro: Kidnap Quim at that event | 01:14 |
| Flandry | yeah if you were druuge | 01:14 |
| woglinde | lol | 01:14 |
| Moo___ | Druuge - Crimson corporation | 01:14 |
| woglinde | haha | 01:14 |
| Moo___ | I was planning to name my company to Crimson corporation, but that might cause little fuzz among more conservative clients | 01:14 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: no, I will kidnap you and bring you over there, then take you to room 101 until you REALLY don't know how to code >:) | 01:14 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | Hey, Spain seems nice... I wouldn't say no | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 01:15 |
| javispedro | hey, QA testing really works. I got a througly review of openttd-opengfx sprites! | 01:16 |
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| mikkov__ | javispedro: I really used some time on that! | 01:17 |
| javispedro | mikkov_: thanks! :) | 01:17 |
| * lcuk turns Moo___ upsidedown | 01:17 | |
| VDVsx | lol | 01:18 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N900, you still blocked from leaving the country? | 01:18 |
| lcuk | get yourself to this barcalona thing | 01:18 |
| lcuk | i bet your all round knowledge would help the hackathon | 01:18 |
| * Moo___ feels being australian | 01:18 | |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N900 wants to be kidnaped it seems. do we have an app for that? | 01:19 |
| Flandry | qwerty is under house arrest? | 01:19 |
| mtnman | prefrontal are u in boulder? | 01:19 |
| lcuk | shut up OOW | 01:19 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lcuk: Yes | 01:19 |
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| * lcuk turns Moo___ back round | 01:20 | |
| * Moo___ quantum tunnels through Earth back to Finland | 01:20 | |
| VDVsx | lcuk, btw, I don't see your name on the attendees list :P | 01:20 |
| qwerty12_N900 | He saw you were coming, VDVsx | 01:21 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: you're wrong. he saw YOU weren't coming :D | 01:22 |
| lardman | hmm, what did I do wrong?: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2009-November/011125.html | 01:22 |
| qwerty12_N900 | javispedro: That's a bonus :-) | 01:22 |
| * javispedro rofls | 01:22 | |
| Dantonic | is there a sample video taken with the N900 available for download anywhere? | 01:22 |
| javispedro | lardman: you win. best error ever. | 01:22 |
| Dantonic | I'd like to see the actual quality of the video as opposed to the youtube uploaded ones | 01:23 |
| javispedro | lardman: your prize is free promotion to extras without QA! | 01:23 |
| qwerty12_N900 | He loses: pH5 was the first to get that | 01:23 |
| lbt | lardman you used sudo | 01:23 |
| javispedro | ouch. :( | 01:23 |
| lardman | did I? | 01:23 |
| lardman | news to me | 01:23 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, where do i request | 01:23 |
| lcuk | is name on the list enough | 01:23 |
| lardman | lbt: but thanks for the pointer | 01:23 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend#Attendees | 01:24 |
| lbt | vague chance you used su and it somehow got transformed | 01:24 |
| lcuk | i did that | 01:24 |
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| lcuk | i never like editing wikitables tho lol | 01:24 |
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| frals | youre gonna mess it up! | 01:24 |
| lardman | lbt: certainly can't see sudo in a grep of the build dir | 01:25 |
| mikkov__ | lardman: builder is broken, Somebody is live testing something I guess | 01:25 |
| * javispedro notes there are quite a few people now | 01:25 | |
| lcuk | it was empty when i looked | 01:25 |
| mikkov__ | lardman: all packages are failing | 01:25 |
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| lcuk | im added now btw | 01:25 |
| lardman | mikkov_: ah ok, thanks | 01:25 |
| lardman | :) | 01:25 |
| lcuk | RST38h, | 01:26 |
| lcuk | "If you have requested invitation and you are waiting for confirmation put "Requested" in the Attendance field. " | 01:26 |
| VDVsx | mikkov_, btw, not interested in the Barcelona ? :P | 01:26 |
| lcuk | that is different to the grid you just sent me to fill in, is the invitiation request simply adding self to the thread | 01:27 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Barcelona? | 01:27 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend | 01:27 |
| mikkov__ | VDVsx: I'm not sure if I have any suitable application | 01:27 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I have not requested an invitation, out of vacation days, managing a project | 01:27 |
| * lcuk nods | 01:28 | |
| VDVsx | mikkov_, you can code, so... ;) | 01:28 |
| qwerty12_N900 | mikkov__: Say that OpenVPN Applet needs redesigning, or something :-) | 01:28 |
| VDVsx | lol | 01:28 |
| RST38h | No way to escape winter this year for me :) | 01:28 |
| javispedro | like if I put up a good excuse :) | 01:28 |
| VDVsx | mikkov_, some new menus for one of your games :) | 01:28 |
| lcuk | "will not easily run on maemo6" | 01:29 |
| lcuk | err build | 01:29 |
| mikkov__ | qwerty12: actually it does badly in all aspects :) right now it's crashing python | 01:29 |
| javispedro | python fault. | 01:29 |
| qwerty12_N900 | :\ | 01:29 |
| Moo___ | python neverrr fails :< | 01:30 |
| * VDVsx blames javispedro's openttd-opengfx for crashing python, hihihi | 01:30 | |
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| mikkov__ | what's the general agenda of this Barcelona thing? Coding&designing? | 01:30 |
| lcuk | designing&coding | 01:30 |
| javispedro | damn sprites! they're evil! | 01:30 |
| javispedro | coding|designing | 01:31 |
| lcuk | mikkov_, just before the summit | 01:31 |
| VDVsx | mikkov_, there's also presentations I guess | 01:31 |
| lcuk | there was a cocreation workshop | 01:31 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | javispedro: You will recieve the highest form of punishment for this: a karma level of -1 | 01:31 |
| mikkov__ | lcuk: I heard about it, but never really found out what happened there | 01:31 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx: I still don't know about the presentations though. Response in barcelona tech about the event has been poor so far (as I predicted :P) | 01:32 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, you were there werent you | 01:32 |
| javispedro | so, unless they magically bring in some symbian devs... | 01:32 |
| RST38h | there are symbian devs? | 01:32 |
| lcuk | mikkov_, we spent time working through some ideas | 01:32 |
| javispedro | I know one! | 01:32 |
| lcuk | no coding tho | 01:32 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, where ? red light district that's false, never been there | 01:32 |
| lcuk | lol | 01:32 |
| lcuk | i meant cocreation | 01:32 |
| VDVsx | ah, yes | 01:33 |
| qwerty12_N900 | VDVsx: You still haven't sent me the pics | 01:33 |
| * RST38h is sure they will bring a few Symbian devs in a huge glass jar filled with alcohol | 01:33 | |
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| lcuk | mikkov_, we played hee haa hoe! | 01:33 |
| javispedro | cocreatin' in the red light district | 01:33 |
| qwerty12_N900 | haha | 01:33 |
| RST38h | And will only allow the attendees to look of them but NOT TOUCH | 01:33 |
| lcuk | lol | 01:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N900, don't joke about that shit. :( http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4029300431/ | 01:33 |
| Moo___ | RST38h: symbian dinosaur | 01:33 |
| * RST38h wonders if feeding will be allowed | 01:33 | |
| lcuk | im sure theres lots of content created in the rld | 01:33 |
| javispedro | RST38h: haha | 01:33 |
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| * mikkov__ is playing sopwith | 01:34 | |
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| javispedro | RST38h: I know a symbian dev actually! he's a low level guy though, so I don't know if he ever uses whatever user space toolkits symbian has. | 01:34 |
| qwerty12_N900 | GeneralAntilles: Hehe. Quick, he isn't here; ban him from IRC! | 01:34 |
| * RST38h is a symbian dev | 01:34 | |
| javispedro | quick, bring in the alcohol! | 01:35 |
| RST38h | Have not figured out how to use Avkon though, the thing crashes | 01:35 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: Condolences | 01:35 |
| Moo___ | RST38h: KERN-EXEC (-3) | 01:35 |
| RST38h | or a variety of other unpleasant errors | 01:35 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: he's still alive! if we put him in the jar now we'll get the best show! | 01:35 |
| *** decasm has left #maemo | 01:35 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | Hehe | 01:36 |
| RST38h | hmmm...time to get out until they preserve me for history | 01:36 |
| RST38h | <sleep> | 01:36 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 01:36 | |
| Moo___ | RST38h: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=32856026894&ref=ts | 01:36 |
| * javispedro watches a helicopter fly | 01:37 | |
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| javispedro | lcuk, watch out. black helicopters coming for your n899 | 01:37 |
| *** hardaker has joined #maemo | 01:37 | |
| RST38h | Moo: these people obviously never developed for palmos | 01:37 |
| *** hannesw_ has quit IRC | 01:37 | |
| * lcuk upgrades to n899.1 and unticks keep karma | 01:37 | |
| javispedro | palmos! I want to see it! | 01:38 |
| qwerty12_N900 | palmos sucks! | 01:38 |
| lcuk | wont we be landing at palmos airport? | 01:38 |
| * qwerty12_N900 escapes the wrath of javispedro | 01:38 | |
| javispedro | no. it's "el prat". | 01:38 |
| javispedro | well, unless qgil decides to send you to the other side of the country. | 01:38 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 01:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyone know who pinged me and why? | 01:39 |
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| RST38h | javis: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30428#8 | 01:39 |
| javispedro | yeah, I read that :D | 01:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, nope. | 01:40 |
| lcuk | timeless, scrollback | 01:40 |
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| RST38h | 64000 bytes per code segment, non-functional compiler, native ARM code accessible through a single hole in a dll, no filesystem...umgh | 01:40 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: Humping them alive gave more satisfaction... | 01:41 |
| * javispedro nods | 01:41 | |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: my scrollback is apparently too limited | 01:41 |
| qwerty12_N900 | timeless: use the logs | 01:41 |
| lcuk | but, as qwerty points out, you are timeless :P | 01:41 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 01:41 | |
| lcuk | hard to parse qwerty12_N900 | 01:41 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I know the damn platform well.... it was beatiful :) | 01:41 |
| lcuk | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html | 01:41 |
| RST38h | the best thing they could do would probably reimplementing the entire "OS" in a single smallish UI library on top of Linux | 01:41 |
| frals | [21:39:44] <AndrewFBlack> GeneralAntilles, yeah well I'm no going any where now I get aggervated at t.m.o but not leaving community look at timeless he has o posts on t.m.o lol | 01:41 |
| qwerty12_N900 | lcuk: Use the search function | 01:42 |
| frals | guess that couldve been it? ;o | 01:42 |
| javispedro | RST38h: they did. it's what GVM is. | 01:42 |
| lcuk | shhh RST38h thats what the others are doing | 01:42 |
| RST38h | But no, they were too smart for that | 01:42 |
| RST38h | javis: Isn't GVM an emulator? | 01:42 |
| timeless_mbp | frals: thanks | 01:42 |
| javispedro | nope. | 01:42 |
| frals | np | 01:42 |
| javispedro | RST38h: do a symbol table dump in any GVM library and watch for MemPtrNew | 01:42 |
| javispedro | MemChunkNew actually | 01:42 |
| RST38h | javis: No no, GVM runs native PalmOS apps on Maemo | 01:43 |
| RST38h | javis: Hence it is an emulator | 01:43 |
| javispedro | RST38h: it does not emulate anything. it just runs a PalmOS 5 rom | 01:43 |
| javispedro | which contains a m68k emulator for palmos 4 apps | 01:43 |
| javispedro | but pnolets are not emulated. | 01:43 |
| RST38h | Hmmm | 01:44 |
| RST38h | this isn't exactly what I meant | 01:44 |
| RST38h | I meant to throw the palmos rom away completely | 01:44 |
| javispedro | well, the "database filesystem" requires a continuous chunk of memory | 01:44 |
| RST38h | take the UI framework, implement it as a little Linux library, continue writing apps under linux rather than palmos | 01:44 |
| RST38h | because palmos has not been salvageable | 01:45 |
| pupnik_ | heh | 01:45 |
| * qwerty12_N900 looks at the Palm Pre: No shit :) | 01:45 | |
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| pupnik_ | 64k segment... | 01:45 |
| javispedro | RST38h: as I said, take a look at any of the symbols in the gvm .so files | 01:45 |
| * pupnik_ twitches | 01:45 | |
| RST38h | 64000 for some reason | 01:46 |
| javispedro | the rom is just for filesystem reasons | 01:46 |
| javispedro | the segment size varied from version to version | 01:46 |
| RST38h | javis: can you take a .so and use it separately from the gvm though> | 01:46 |
| javispedro | RST38h: well, that would be like taking GDI out of windows and trying to use it somewhere else. | 01:46 |
| lardman | night all | 01:46 |
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| javispedro | but at some point I guess you can take a subset of it.. | 01:47 |
| RST38h | javis: and that is exactly what I suggested :) | 01:47 |
| RST38h | javis: that database crap was pretty useless | 01:47 |
| RST38h | no need to carry it over | 01:47 |
| * RST38h notices he should be asleep. Applying fixes. | 01:47 | |
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| javispedro | Feedback :) | 01:48 |
| javispedro | gnite | 01:48 |
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| pupnik_ | f part of brain could keep coding while sleeping that would be good | 01:48 |
| pupnik_ | review over breakfast | 01:48 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: you still have to receive your punishment for insulting palmos | 01:48 |
| * javispedro adds to GPE ToDo | 01:48 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | Copy of Windows ME? | 01:49 |
| javispedro | hum. | 01:49 |
| javispedro | a 2009 computer with Windows ME. | 01:49 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, tracy often says if i get disturbed in my sleep i talk code | 01:49 |
| javispedro | that is evil. | 01:49 |
| pupnik_ | who built dosbox for n900, qole? | 01:49 |
| lcuk | it would run viruses quicker than ever | 01:49 |
| pupnik_ | lol | 01:49 |
| javispedro | pupnik_: me... | 01:49 |
| Robot101 | does dosbox do any IPX emulation? | 01:49 |
| javispedro | same flags as n810, since, well, I don't know any better. | 01:50 |
| pupnik_ | it can | 01:50 |
| Robot101 | I want to know if I can play networked command and conquer :) | 01:50 |
| pupnik_ | k | 01:50 |
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| Robot101 | ooh | 01:50 |
| Robot101 | so, we should port it to telepathy | 01:50 |
| Robot101 | :) | 01:50 |
| pupnik_ | 386/486 games may be too slow | 01:50 |
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| javispedro | it can, i don't know if the version in extras does ( i remember tinkering with it, but not what I did exactly) | 01:50 |
| lcuk | party @ javispedro's house! | 01:51 |
| lcuk | 50 hackers descend | 01:51 |
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| * javispedro erases all his maemo.org accounts, changes his first name and hides | 01:52 | |
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| lcuk | you would come out of hiding when we arrived | 01:52 |
| lcuk | we would wave n900s | 01:52 |
| * javispedro sniffs them already from here | 01:52 | |
| lcuk | lol | 01:52 |
| lcuk | cool | 01:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Why do people insist on recommending R&D mode. . . . | 01:54 |
| javispedro | because it sounds good. | 01:54 |
| javispedro | R&D mode sounds like your average politician bullshit. | 01:54 |
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| VDVsx | R&D pufff, for what I need that shit ? o_0 | 01:55 |
| javispedro | and I guess it's hard to delete a thousand google hits talking about it. | 01:55 |
| lcuk | 1001 now you guys brought it up | 01:57 |
| lcuk | carry on, google is listening | 01:57 |
| javispedro | touché. | 01:57 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Nah, google doesn't index sites with the work "lcuk" in 'em | 01:57 |
| qwerty12_N900 | word, even | 01:57 |
| Proteous | R&D mode makes you L33T. everyone knows this | 01:58 |
| lcuk | the Lamborghini Club UK are upset | 01:58 |
| lcuk | 1002 | 01:58 |
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| woglinde | laallaaaa | 01:59 |
| pupnik_ | n900 would look good in a nice audi r8 | 01:59 |
| woglinde | fighting with setuptools | 01:59 |
| woglinde | pupnik r or s? | 02:00 |
| lcuk | woglinde, do we need RMS again? | 02:00 |
| woglinde | nope | 02:00 |
| woglinde | its working now | 02:00 |
| pupnik_ | forget.. what u doin woglinde | 02:00 |
| lcuk | scrollback pupnik_, hes fighting with setuptools | 02:00 |
| dmj7261 | RMS wouldn't use an n900, not free enough. | 02:01 |
| woglinde | from python | 02:01 |
| woglinde | but now I am fighting with the right imports | 02:01 |
| woglinde | to the qt stuff working | 02:01 |
| javispedro | well, gnite :) | 02:02 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders how much damage that my-symbian scratch silliness did. | 02:16 | |
| GeneralAntilles | He must put his devices through a rock tumbler or something. | 02:16 |
| dmj7261 | So no other scratches? | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have zero scratches on mine. | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's been dropped onto tile and carpet. | 02:16 |
| dmj7261 | ANything else in your pocket? | 02:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Admittedly I don't store used razor blades in the same pocket with it, but still. | 02:17 |
| dmj7261 | keys? pencils? | 02:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Keys go on the other side, wallet in back. | 02:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Storing your keys in with your mobile devices is just stupid. | 02:17 |
| dmj7261 | I'll have to get used to storing keys and pencils in the other pocket | 02:18 |
| dmj7261 | (My phone is a flip phone so it hasn't been an issue) | 02:18 |
| dmj7261 | Is the n900 screen glass? | 02:18 |
| dmj7261 | or plastic? | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both, of course. | 02:18 |
| dmj7261 | I haven't heard, so I assume plastic | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Resistive screens are plastic front glass backed. | 02:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just like the 5800 or N97 screen. | 02:19 |
| dmj7261 | I've never seen either of those. | 02:19 |
| kalikianatoli | but the n900 doesn't *look* like plastic, compared to the 5800 | 02:21 |
| pupnik_ | N900 feels very nice, for plastic | 02:21 |
| asj | the n97 looks better than the 5800 which was horrible | 02:21 |
| pupnik_ | rear of n900 is fingerprint-proof | 02:22 |
| kalikianatoli | yeah, it feels quite valuable (if that's the appropriate term) | 02:22 |
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| pupnik_ | it feels like a thinkpad compared to most phones | 02:23 |
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| pupnik_ | trackpoint mod! | 02:24 |
| kalikianatoli | heh | 02:24 |
| kalikianatoli | and of course get the cover of a prototype which *looks* like a thinkpad | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | kalikianatoli, "well built" or "high quality" | 02:24 |
| pupnik_ | need a seperate charger to test bl-5j | 02:25 |
| pupnik_ | i got a charge from a friend - perhaps N900 is sensitive to wild charging voltages | 02:25 |
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| kalikianatoli | GeneralAntilles, ah, thanks | 02:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like that Newegg is offering the AC-8U bundled with the N900. | 02:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | kalikianatoli, valuable isn't incorrect, per se, but it isn't the usual usage. | 02:26 |
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| lcuk | dmj7261, for years and years i have had my phone in my pocket with everything | 02:34 |
| lcuk | i do try to keep stuff away from it but i havent always got an empty left hand pocket | 02:34 |
| lcuk | so it goes in with keys and pens and cigs and lighters and stuff | 02:34 |
| ccooke | Evening | 02:35 |
| dmj7261 | no scratches on n900? | 02:35 |
| lcuk | none so far | 02:35 |
| woglinde | coolio | 02:35 |
| lcuk | im nervous ill get them soon | 02:35 |
| woglinde | I mastered pyqt with only .ui load and packing | 02:35 |
| lcuk | but im not treating my n900 differently to any other mobile ive had | 02:35 |
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| lcuk | when outside | 02:36 |
| lcuk | inside its a tablet and i carefully put it on the desk on paper or something | 02:36 |
| lcuk | and never spin it face down ;) | 02:36 |
| woglinde | now I am really happy | 02:36 |
| lcuk | excellent woglinde | 02:36 |
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| lcuk | ccooke, \o hola¬! | 02:36 |
| dmj7261 | ...spin face down on sandpaper test? | 02:36 |
| lcuk | on desk does it normally | 02:36 |
| lcuk | my old phone had a really natural centrally balanced point and i would spin it for hours | 02:37 |
| lcuk | there were cyclic scratches | 02:37 |
| woglinde | lcuk yeah | 02:37 |
| lcuk | just one piece of grit | 02:37 |
| lcuk | i only ever scratched n810 screen with the stylus | 02:37 |
| dmj7261 | on the screen? | 02:37 |
| lcuk | again, 1 piece of grit | 02:37 |
| lcuk | yeah dmj7261 | 02:37 |
| woglinde | latest fragmet was change blafoo.h in the .ui file to moo/noo/blafoo.h | 02:38 |
| lcuk | it was a crap phone tho | 02:38 |
| woglinde | so the ui loader find my customwidgetclass | 02:38 |
| lcuk | cool | 02:38 |
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| woglinde | okay good nite | 02:47 |
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| pupnik | what should i buy to charge a bl-5k (n900) out of device? | 03:02 |
| pupnik | s/5k/5j | 03:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, not sure such a beast exists. | 03:04 |
| kalikianatoli | I'd rather wonder what you do with it to *need* that | 03:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, a 5800, maybe. ;) | 03:04 |
| pupnik | mhm interesting idea | 03:05 |
| pupnik | ty | 03:05 |
| pupnik | my batt seems dead | 03:05 |
| pupnik | on loaned device | 03:05 |
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| pupnik | i hate to spend money on a fix but none other known | 03:06 |
| |R | pupnik: http://www.sourcingmap.com/bl5j-battery-charger-for-mobile-phone-nokia-bl5j-5800x-p-33841.html | 03:07 |
| |R | just searching for bl-5j charger will give you these chinese chargers i guess :) | 03:08 |
| |R | Are there good screen protectors for n900 out yet? | 03:08 |
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| pupnik | dunno | 03:11 |
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| pupnik | links2 is nice on a few sites | 03:35 |
| pupnik | rreal compact data | 03:35 |
| pupnik | do some diablo apps run on maemo5? ;) | 03:36 |
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| pupnik | i want someone with a n900 to be my remote control robot for an evening pls :) | 03:37 |
| pupnik | with webcam | 03:37 |
| pupnik | or no, ssh * webcam :) | 03:38 |
| kalikianatoli | with a 245? | 03:40 |
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| Ronaldo38741 | My N810 has decided to no longer recognise either the internal or external memory cards. Possible reasons? | 03:44 |
| lcuk | Ronaldo38741 dunno, corruptions? | 03:45 |
| lcuk | take the card out and see if it works in another machine | 03:45 |
| FireFox17 | maybe.. | 03:45 |
| Ronaldo38741 | The external card works in my laptop | 03:46 |
| ccooke | night, all | 03:47 |
| FireFox17 | try mount /deb/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc1 and see if that helps | 03:47 |
| FireFox17 | *dev | 03:47 |
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| Ronaldo38741 | If that works but disappears on reboot, then what? | 03:48 |
| Ronaldo38741 | Eh, nevermind | 03:49 |
| Ronaldo38741 | Despite disappearing for 3 boots today, they have now automagically reappeared | 03:49 |
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| kalikianatoli | if it disappears after something's done with it, it's likely corrupted | 03:51 |
| kalikianatoli | you can often try to use it until the filesystem driver notices the corruption | 03:51 |
| Ronaldo38741 | I haven't used them for weeks | 03:51 |
| Ronaldo38741 | Just turned on this morning, gone. Turned on 5mins ago, back | 03:52 |
| lcuk | were you plugged into usb | 03:52 |
| Ronaldo38741 | Nope | 03:52 |
| lcuk | bizarre | 03:52 |
| Ronaldo38741 | I use it mainly for webmail/calendar/twitter/notes, not much use for memory cards | 03:53 |
| Ronaldo38741 | But like them to work, obviously | 03:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Lot of typing. . . . | 04:14 |
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| samad | hello | 04:26 |
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| samad | what's the procedure to restart the N900 device from Application popup menu | 04:28 |
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| samad | i have tried with system("reboot"); but no result | 04:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Press the power button? | 04:29 |
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| samad | GeneralAntilles : popup menu yes no dialog | 04:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | samad, why do you need this? | 04:31 |
| samad | GeneralAntilles: i have an application and i have to write mce.ini file so need to restart | 04:32 |
| v2px | so tell the user to restart, maybe? | 04:33 |
| samad | v2px, yes | 04:33 |
| VDVsx | samad, restart a Linux system ? that's a bit odd. Linux =! windows :P | 04:33 |
| VDVsx | unless you are messing with the system | 04:34 |
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| samad | VDVsx, then what's the procedure ? | 04:34 |
| VDVsx | samad, I don't know what do you need :) | 04:35 |
| VDVsx | if you can elaborate a bit | 04:35 |
| samad | VDVsx, I have an application that will write vibration pattern to mce.ini file so need to restart the device for updating the pattern | 04:36 |
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| samad | i have popup menu do u want to restart device ? yes | no | 04:38 |
| VDVsx | samad, well IMO that's not a good idea, do you know you can brick you device if you mess the mce.ini ? | 04:38 |
| VDVsx | can you use a plugin based approach ? | 04:38 |
| lcuk | Analias, theres plenty of ppl with n810s | 04:40 |
| lcuk | at least one of them should have one for sale | 04:40 |
| VDVsx | samad, anyway: "/etc/init.d/mce restart" should restart the daemon, so no need to restart the whole system | 04:40 |
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| Analias | Anyone state side with an N810 to sell? | 04:41 |
| lcuk | Analias, what condition do you need | 04:42 |
| samad | that means i need execute system("/etc/init.d/mce restart"); right ? | 04:42 |
| lcuk | mint in the box? | 04:42 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, does that command need root privs | 04:42 |
| VDVsx | samad, exact, I'm not sure about maemo5 but should be the same command | 04:42 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, maemo4 no | 04:43 |
| Analias | Lcuk: functional, don't mind too many scratches - must have a clear screen and accessories | 04:43 |
| VDVsx | maemo5 dunno | 04:43 |
| lcuk | samad, which vibe patterns are you playing with | 04:43 |
| samad | VDVsx, i think there may be previllege problem | 04:44 |
| fureddo | Anyone has experience with optification? I have a problem optifying user's data for my application, and I would welcome some advice. | 04:44 |
| samad | luck : customize vibration that is not defined finally | 04:45 |
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| lcuk | yeah i see | 04:45 |
| lcuk | reading now, cool | 04:45 |
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| VDVsx | samad, try as root, this will not warm you system | 04:45 |
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| samad | if i use sudo , then how password can be used ? | 04:46 |
| samad | VDVsx : if i use sudo , then how password can be used ? | 04:47 |
| VDVsx | samad, sudo gainroot | 04:47 |
| lcuk | samad, are you making an app to change these | 04:47 |
| ali1234 | fureddo: what do you mean by "user's data?" it should probably go in $HOME as usual | 04:47 |
| samad | luck, right | 04:47 |
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| VDVsx | samad, are you sure you need to mess with mce.init for add a new pattern ? | 04:48 |
| fureddo | ali1234, Ok then. I think I have read somewhere that user data should be optified as much as possible. | 04:49 |
| fureddo | ali1234, Using $HOME directory will solve my problem. | 04:49 |
| ali1234 | fureddo: files that user creates should be stored on MyDocs or whatever | 04:50 |
| lcuk | fureddo, application global data | 04:50 |
| VDVsx | fureddo, MyDocs is the big partition so no problem :) | 04:50 |
| lcuk | so if your app installs 17png files and a big .dat from the .deb file | 04:50 |
| lcuk | optify that, but thats different to the user creating data himself by using your app | 04:51 |
| samad | VDVsx, not clear | 04:52 |
| samad | sudo gainroot is command ? | 04:52 |
| fureddo | lcuk, Application data files are optimized properly (I think). The latest problem was when using user data (in my case, they are vocabulary and preferences files). | 04:52 |
| VDVsx | samad, yes, you need to install rootsh | 04:53 |
| fureddo | lcuk, So I will revert to original version and use $HOME/.toMOTko directory for user data. | 04:53 |
| VDVsx | samad, this one: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ | 04:53 |
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| VDVsx | samad, then use "sudo gainroot" to gain root permissions | 04:54 |
| lcuk | cool | 04:54 |
| fureddo | lcuk, Concerning the MyDocs partition, do you refer it as /MyDocs ? Or $HOME/MyDocs or something else? | 04:54 |
| lcuk | gnite folks \o | 04:54 |
| samad | VDVsx: after installing i have to execute command | 04:54 |
| lcuk | i ignore it for now | 04:54 |
| lcuk | ~/.liqbase | 04:54 |
| VDVsx | samad, yes, each time you need root | 04:55 |
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| VDVsx | fureddo, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 04:55 |
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| VDVsx | and for samad http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/System_Software | 04:56 |
| samad | so when my application is to installed any device need to install rootsh ?? | 04:56 |
| VDVsx | samad, no | 04:56 |
| VDVsx | if can tell your app to run with root privileges on installation | 04:57 |
| fureddo | VDVsx, Is there a MyDocs directory on Diablo devices (as well as Fremantle)? | 04:57 |
| VDVsx | S/if/you/ | 04:57 |
| VDVsx | fureddo, can't remember the diablo name | 04:58 |
| fureddo | VDVsx, Ok, I will use $HOME so that it works on both Diablo and Fremantle. | 04:58 |
| VDVsx | fureddo, how big are your files ? | 04:59 |
| VDVsx | just config files ? | 04:59 |
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| fureddo | VDVsx, up to 2-3 MB. | 05:00 |
| fureddo | VDVsx, For most cases, probably less than that. | 05:01 |
| fureddo | VDVsx, For exceptional cases, it could take 50 MB. But I think it's very very unlikely. | 05:01 |
| VDVsx | if $HOME in fremantle points to MyDocs, you're fine, too late to my to check need to sleep :P | 05:02 |
| fureddo | VDVsx, Good night! | 05:02 |
| VDVsx | if not it will fail the Q&A criteria and you need a better solution :P | 05:02 |
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| fureddo | VDVsx, I will give it a try. | 05:03 |
| VDVsx | fureddo, thanks, I can confim it for you tomorrow if you, just ping me here ;) | 05:04 |
| VDVsx | gnite folks | 05:04 |
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| anvith3 | penguinbait: hello there. i just saw the old posts on flite ported to Maemo | 05:19 |
| anvith3 | and wanted to know if u are still pursuing the project | 05:20 |
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| samad | VDVsx, i have executed system("/etc/init.d/mce restart"); but shows Restarting Mode Controller Entity: mcedsmesock_connect: No such file or directory | 05:32 |
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| pupnik | rock and roll mcdonalds... | 06:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gross | 06:17 |
| pupnik | you know the son GeneralAntilles -- wesley willis | 06:24 |
| pupnik | song | 06:24 |
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| * GeneralAntilles is listening to Peter, Paul & Mary. | 06:27 | |
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| pupnik | nice | 06:28 |
| dmj7261 | any europeans on here at the moment? | 06:35 |
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| * GeneralAntilles finds you folks really stingy with the Thanks!. :P | 07:59 | |
| dmj7261 | thanks | 07:59 |
| * Stskeeps is tired | 07:59 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, poor excuse! | 08:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're http://maemo.org now. | 08:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tiredness is inexcusable. | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | my work day starts in an hour and ends 4 hours later :P | 08:00 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: ta for the backing in maemo5 on n810 thread | 08:21 |
| thux | morning | 08:21 |
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| thux | what is good wlan router for maemo and phones? from reasonable price range | 08:34 |
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| Stskeeps | i like asus wl-500gp | 08:36 |
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| johnx | mmm...new wireless adapter | 08:39 |
| johnx | I'm sure there must have been something very wrong with my previous wifi card now | 08:40 |
| thux | asus looks nice does it support these linux firmwares? | 08:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles has had good success with his new WRT320N | 08:44 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Although I miss Tomato. | 08:44 |
| * johnx <3 tomato | 08:45 | |
| johnx | keep coming back from openwrt/x-wrt | 08:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just wish it would support some N routers. | 08:46 |
| johnx | the sales dude at fry's almost managed to convince me to buy something only supported by ndis wrapper. I assume stupidity instead of malice, but I was still disappointed | 08:46 |
| thux | 'WL-500g Premium is fully supported and runs stable' say openwrt | 08:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Man, it's so nice being able to do UPnP videos on the N900 without having to fool with transcoding. | 08:50 |
| johnx | and that fm transmitter thing is working great too | 08:50 |
| thux | i haven't got n900 yet wonder why :( | 08:51 |
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| GAN900 | thux, it's not what you now, it's how nice the bribes you send Nokia are. ;) | 08:54 |
| GAN900 | and I think I've figured out part of my problem with the hardware keyboard. | 08:54 |
| GAN900 | It's that damn reverse iPhone-finger thing again. | 08:55 |
| thux | but here nokialand we should get devices first :( | 08:56 |
| thux | cause we have to suffer company headquarters and such | 08:56 |
| pupnik | hehe | 09:01 |
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| * RST38h moos at tekojo | 09:03 | |
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| tekojo | RST38h morning! | 09:05 |
| * pupnik looks at sun, subtracts 6h for RST38h, clucks mildly | 09:06 | |
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| RST38h | pupnik: I am in .RU not in .CN | 09:10 |
| RST38h | Oh, wait, you are subtracting, so that must east cost US =) | 09:10 |
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| Macer | ussr! | 09:16 |
| Macer | the ussr had the right idea, just bad execution :) | 09:16 |
| RST38h | ussr had very good execution, executed lots of people at some time | 09:17 |
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| pupnik | oh | 09:22 |
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| pupnik | you were also in BC, canada at some point, in my memory | 09:23 |
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| dmj7261 | The EU looks like it's about to give "open" a very strange definition. | 09:24 |
| dmj7261 | http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2620&blogid=14 | 09:25 |
| johnx | yeah. read that. yay lobbyists! | 09:25 |
| dmj7261 | johnx: Are you in Europe? | 09:25 |
| johnx | nope | 09:26 |
| johnx | well, not usually | 09:26 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Newfoundland airport is as close as I have ever been to Canada | 09:26 |
| dmj7261 | me neither: Europeans here should protest this. | 09:26 |
| dmj7261 | The ACTA treaty is very nasty too. | 09:27 |
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| johnx | yeah | 09:28 |
| johnx | pretty worried about that one :| | 09:28 |
| dmj7261 | I found Cory Doctorow's step 2. | 09:29 |
| dmj7261 | 1: Sue and alienate fans. | 09:29 |
| dmj7261 | 2: | 09:29 |
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| dmj7261 | 3: A chastened world returns to the record stores. | 09:30 |
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| dmj7261 | Step 2 is Destroy the Internet, since nothing useful or profitable can come from it for anybody. | 09:30 |
| * RST38h would add a few items to the plan though | 09:31 | |
| dmj7261 | Actually destroying the internet might be a slight challenge, even with ACTA. | 09:32 |
| RST38h | Looks meek the way it is stated | 09:32 |
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| RST38h | Raise the prices for international travel to x3 the current values | 09:32 |
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| dmj7261 | The three accusations and your entire household is off the internet strikes me as blatently wrong. | 09:33 |
| RST38h | Strip search the passengers, take their clothing, hand out the pajamas and sedatives | 09:33 |
| dmj7261 | RST38h: I accuse you of copyright infringement. | 09:33 |
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| RST38h | dmj7261: Show the prior art or fuck off =) | 09:34 |
| RST38h | Let's see, what next... | 09:35 |
| dmj7261 | You can make airplane travel completely safe, just do a strip and cavity search, prohibit baggage or personal items of anykind (even checked), confiscate and burn all clothing, and restrain passengers naked in the plane by both hands and legs. | 09:35 |
| RST38h | dmj7261: No mention of pajamas | 09:35 |
| * RST38h laughs diabolically | 09:35 | |
| dmj7261 | Pajamas could be used to strange someone. | 09:36 |
| RST38h | dmj7261: that is where valium kicks in | 09:36 |
| dmj7261 | ...Otherwise, give me my shoes and my waterbottle. | 09:36 |
| RST38h | Also not mentioned in your quotation | 09:36 |
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| RST38h | Disband the US airforce, replace it with a fleet of drones whose service and operation is outsourced to Boeing/Lokheed/etc | 09:37 |
| RST38h | Once the costs of bombing far away places are brought down, start looking for targets =) | 09:37 |
| RST38h | I mean, if it is not the margins, it has to be the volume, right? =) | 09:38 |
| dmj7261 | ummm? | 09:38 |
| RST38h | nuthin', just extrapolating some current trends... | 09:39 |
| dmj7261 | Yeah, those things worry me too. | 09:41 |
| *** ab[out] is now known as ab | 09:41 | |
| ab | outsource US airforce to China | 09:41 |
| ab | hire Dell to get logistics right for the army forces | 09:42 |
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| pupnik | no logistics, that way they cant travel far from home | 09:42 |
| dmj7261 | http://xkcd.com/652/ | 09:42 |
| dmj7261 | http://xkcd.com/651/ | 09:42 |
| RST38h | ab: That is, of course, impossible | 09:43 |
| ab | RST38h, we have parallel-running continents, why wouldn't we have parallel-running universes? | 09:43 |
| RST38h | ab: The whole idea of having an airforce is to let local company-states make a megabuck | 09:43 |
| pupnik | should make bucks with cancer research | 09:44 |
| RST38h | ab: I suspect lobbying will work the same in all parallel universes | 09:44 |
| pupnik | lol | 09:44 |
| pupnik | nooo | 09:44 |
| ab | RST38h, they are parallel, after all | 09:44 |
| ab | :) | 09:44 |
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| RST38h | ab: BTW, Dell is already hired: http://www.biginsiders.org/index.php?mode=dod&page=summary | 09:46 |
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| L0cutus | re | 09:53 |
| johnx | ugh. I think I need to give up on t.m.o for a while | 09:56 |
| dmj7261 | too much waiting? | 09:57 |
| Jaffa | morning, all | 09:57 |
| johnx | too much noise | 09:57 |
| Jaffa | johnx: x: join the club, it's very therapeutic :) | 09:57 |
| johnx | what are the membership benefits? | 09:58 |
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| Jaffa | johnx: Sanity, intellectual discussion, reduced noise level | 10:02 |
| Jaffa | johnx: ...increased time for actual productive stuff (such as QA process and writing s/w) | 10:03 |
| anvith3 | i downloaded the .deb packages from here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=244092 | 10:03 |
| anvith3 | and installed the multi package | 10:03 |
| anvith3 | sorry its regarding flite | 10:04 |
| johnx | anvith3, how's it working for you? | 10:04 |
| anvith3 | what is the default install directory for any software on a N810 | 10:04 |
| johnx | binaries end up in /usr/bin | 10:04 |
| johnx | platform independent data tends to go in /usr/share (but sometimes in /usr/lib if the program isn't well packaged) | 10:05 |
| johnx | to see a listing of all the files in your package type: dpkg -L package-name | 10:05 |
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| ab | RST38h, they have been hired multiple times but as suppliers of computers/laptops, not as logistics experts | 10:10 |
| sarower | Good morning all, | 10:10 |
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| sarower | I am using came from applet, and during the initialization of GST gst_init(argc, argv) what will be the value of argv? | 10:11 |
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| sarower | Any body? | 10:12 |
| sarower | *camera | 10:12 |
| sarower | Normally it should be the application name! But for applet where i will get the application nama> | 10:13 |
| sarower | As it has no executable? | 10:13 |
| sarower | It runs from *.so | 10:13 |
| sarower | right? | 10:13 |
| sarower | name* | 10:13 |
| RST38h | ab: Probably won't be good at logistics outside their business model though | 10:13 |
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| ab | RST38h, what's the difference? there are multiple weapons suppliers, food suppliers, etc. Dell can drive them to death to low whole chain costs :) | 10:15 |
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| suihkulokki | http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/03/secret-copyright-tre.html | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that's pretty bad | 10:20 |
| Stskeeps | time to collect counterfeit | 10:20 |
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| sarower | I am trying to run camera from applet, and during the initialization of GST gst_init(argc, argv) what will be the value of argv? | 10:23 |
| sarower | Normally it should be the application name! But for applet where i will get the application name? | 10:23 |
| sarower | As it has no executable? It runs from *.so | 10:24 |
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| sarower | timeless_mbp: | 10:27 |
| sarower | ? | 10:27 |
| johnx | Anvi3, I'm here | 10:27 |
| sarower | timeless_mbp: Any idea? | 10:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: Where can I get publicly available parts of Maemo5? In source code form? | 10:28 |
| sarower | johnx: Any idea? | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | sarower, what's the purpose of those args? | 10:29 |
| johnx | sarower, never played with gst | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | gstreamer-specific command-line argument parsing? | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | getting the application name to display in error messages? | 10:29 |
| mgedmin | do the docs say? | 10:29 |
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| johnx | RST38h, http://maemo.org/development/ | 10:30 |
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| RST38h | aha | 10:30 |
| sarower | johnx: gst_init(argc, argv) no need? | 10:30 |
| johnx | sarower, I don't know gst. :P and even my C is pretty rusty | 10:31 |
| sarower | johnx: When i am running camera? | 10:31 |
| johnx | why not ask a magic 8-ball | 10:31 |
| johnx | ? | 10:31 |
| RST38h | you are his magic 8-ball | 10:31 |
| RST38h | get used to it =) | 10:31 |
| johnx | sarower, http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi | 10:32 |
| johnx | it said "my sources say no" | 10:32 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: I'm seeing some odd behaviour with the latest iNES where it ends up shafting the device to the point I do a controlled reboot. | 10:37 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: PulseAudio bug #5524 | 10:38 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: ta. I've seen it when already listening to music, so that sounds reasonable | 10:39 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: There is not much I can do about it. Looking at PA source code at the moment | 10:40 |
| RST38h | Looks like it hangs in pa_threaded_mainloop_stop() | 10:40 |
| * Jaffa opens the bug to vote on it and bump priority | 10:40 | |
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| sarower | johnx: What is this? it does not give me the answer! | 10:44 |
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| johnx | heh | 10:44 |
| johnx | hi lbt | 10:44 |
| lbt | hi johnx | 10:44 |
| sarower | johnx: I is just saying No way? | 10:44 |
| johnx | anvith3, hi. still here. if you want to ask me a question. you can ask it on #maemo rather than PMing me | 10:45 |
| anvith3 | sorry | 10:45 |
| lbt | I nearly got a Fremantle chroot in OBS last night | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 10:45 |
| anvith3 | i downloaded the .deb packages from here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=244092 | 10:45 |
| johnx | sarower, it was a joke... | 10:45 |
| johnx | anvith3, did you miss my message from earlier? | 10:45 |
| anvith3 | and installed the multi package | 10:45 |
| anvith3 | yeah | 10:46 |
| johnx | dpkg -L package | 10:46 |
| anvith3 | some prob with Xchat | 10:46 |
| johnx | it will list the locations of files | 10:46 |
| anvith3 | ok | 10:46 |
| sarower | johnx: Oh no! man it's not joking time man! | 10:46 |
| anvith3 | ok | 10:46 |
| johnx | binaries live in /usr/bin | 10:46 |
| anvith3 | ok | 10:46 |
| johnx | shared libraries in /usr/lib and data in /usr/share | 10:46 |
| johnx | for the most part | 10:46 |
| johnx | sarower, it is for me. must be a timezone thing | 10:46 |
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| sarower | johnx: May be, but please give me the solution please! | 10:47 |
| johnx | sarower, I told you: I don't have one | 10:47 |
| Anvith_ | i'm gettin this werror on xchat(An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine). | 10:47 |
| johnx | sarower, you need to read the things I say | 10:47 |
| sarower | johnx: Ok brother, thankyou! | 10:48 |
| sarower | johnx: I have read a lot brither | 10:48 |
| Anvith_ | kohnx : root access necessary | 10:48 |
| Anvith_ | ? | 10:48 |
| Anvith_ | *johnx: | 10:48 |
| sarower | But it is not so easy to get this kind of information | 10:48 |
| johnx | Anvith_, sorry. no idea about the error | 10:49 |
| Anvith_ | ok | 10:49 |
| johnx | two copies of xchat running maybe? | 10:50 |
| Anvith_ | well i googled | 10:50 |
| Anvith_ | its a common rror | 10:50 |
| Anvith_ | but no proper solutions mentoned oter than re install and shutting down firewall | 10:50 |
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| Anvith_ | thanks JohnX | 10:55 |
| johnx | was I right? | 10:56 |
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| Anvith__ | Nick anvi3 | 10:58 |
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| sarower | regarding gtkentry | 10:59 |
| sarower | Is there any Api that set the vertical alignment of text | 11:00 |
| * RST38h applies a dirty hack | 11:00 | |
| sarower | that means text will be shown from middle | 11:00 |
| sarower | like in excell format cell-> middle | 11:01 |
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| sarower | middle of top and bottom | 11:02 |
| tigert | isnt it like that? | 11:03 |
| tigert | are you trying to use custom fonts or stuff? | 11:04 |
| sarower | tigert: me? | 11:04 |
| tigert | yeah | 11:04 |
| tigert | its centered on my device | 11:04 |
| tigert | in gtkentry | 11:04 |
| sarower | tigert: Not custome. but i want that it show the text in centre | 11:05 |
| sarower | not from bottom | 11:05 |
| tigert | screenshot? | 11:05 |
| sarower | tigert: But it is showing in my emulator from bottom | 11:05 |
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| sarower | tigert: 2 min] | 11:05 |
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| pupnik | "please, don't damage your n900" http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/4001102936_bf14bdbeff.jpg | 11:06 |
| pupnik | s/damage/fry | 11:06 |
| * RST38h has seen this one | 11:06 | |
| tigert | sarower: http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/maemo-5-sdk-beta.jpg | 11:06 |
| johnx | wonder how many they burned already ... | 11:06 |
| tigert | sarower: the "hello world" is vertically centered..? | 11:07 |
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| sarower | tigert: let see | 11:07 |
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| sarower | tigert: Is it by default centered? | 11:08 |
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| tigert | I think so | 11:08 |
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| tigert | if you can screenshot yours it might give a clue what is wrong | 11:09 |
| sarower | tigert: Ok, it is vertically centered by default | 11:10 |
| sarower | tigert: Thank you very much | 11:10 |
| sarower | tigert: I was wrong | 11:10 |
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| tigert | ok :) | 11:12 |
| tigert | good | 11:12 |
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| Mek | for quite a while it seems that every package on the auto-builder has an "ERROR running /etc/buildme.d/setup_build" in its output with a sudo-message asking for a passwork below... | 11:36 |
| zaheer_ | yah i saw that | 11:36 |
| zaheer_ | in builds i sent | 11:37 |
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| wazd | 'lo all | 11:39 |
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| paddy_melon | hey guys, what devices has maemo been ported to other then n8*0? | 11:48 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 | 11:52 |
| paddy_melon | n900 is a phone | 11:53 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a device. | 11:53 |
| paddy_melon | I don't want a phone | 11:54 |
| paddy_melon | too expensive | 11:54 |
| Myrtti | maemo ported to? | 11:54 |
| Myrtti | huh? | 11:54 |
| Jaffa | paddy_melon: Mer, a fully open source derivative of Maemo 5, has been ported to N8x0, OpenMoko FreeRunner, 770, PocketLoox, x86, TouchBook etc | 11:54 |
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| paddy_melon | cool | 11:54 |
| paddy_melon | thanks | 11:54 |
| Jaffa | paddy_melon: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer for more info. There are also some Chinese devices which are running what they claim is "Maemo" | 11:55 |
| paddy_melon | ok thanks | 11:55 |
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| lardman | morning | 11:56 |
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| lardman | has the extras-autobuilder been fixed yet? | 11:56 |
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| lardman | hmm, still spouting strange messages, but at least there's a link to the useful stuff at the bottom | 12:01 |
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| * tigert chuckles at the "its a phone" comment | 12:07 | |
| tigert | what is a phone anyway? something you make voice calls with | 12:07 |
| tigert | sure. [x] it's a phone then | 12:07 |
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| tigert | n900 feels a lot like a shrunken minilaptop to me | 12:08 |
| RST38h | shrunken a bit too far, if you ask me | 12:08 |
| tigert | that is the paradox | 12:08 |
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| tigert | you want it to be small in your pocket and large when you use it | 12:09 |
| Myrtti | people still haven't invented the bag of holding? tut-tut | 12:09 |
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| Myrtti | quit ircing and start inventing | 12:09 |
| lardman | we obviously need to carry handbags ;) | 12:09 |
| SpeedEvil | We just need proper cases that lie flush to the back, and allow you to remove a netbook one-handed. | 12:10 |
| SpeedEvil | And are rugged enough to sit on without issue. | 12:10 |
| Myrtti | lardman: manbags are always a good idea | 12:10 |
| johnx | backpacks > manbags | 12:10 |
| * mgedmin roots for resizable devices | 12:10 | |
| lardman | but never hold as much as a handbag, as illustrated by my wife's | 12:10 |
| mgedmin | it works for windows, why not physical objects? | 12:10 |
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| * mgedmin grabs the railing | 12:11 | |
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| mgedmin | choppy weather today on irc | 12:11 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: it's coming - bit it'll be a while before flex-screens are flexy and reliable enough to be rolled and unrolled ten thousand times. | 12:11 |
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| mgedmin | feh, rolling is 1D | 12:11 |
| mgedmin | I want 2D resizing | 12:11 |
| mgedmin | grab a corner and stretch | 12:11 |
| RST38h | tigert: a maemo-running moleskin! | 12:12 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - 1D is almost good enough. | 12:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Imagine a phone a bit longer than a n900, which you can extend the screen from the long edge to get a widescreen display. | 12:12 |
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| tigert | RST38h: :) | 12:12 |
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| ccooke | Morning, all | 12:21 |
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| lardman | is it possible to remove libraries from the debianised list in ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} ? | 12:24 |
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| lardman | To build I need Python to create some bindings, but then Python is not necessary to run the main app, just the bindings, so it shouldn't be a run-time dep afaiu | 12:25 |
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| lardman | also, in the autobuilder, how can one tell what is being built for? I.e. Fremantle or Diablo | 12:28 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: Build-Depends: maemo-version, and then check /etc/maemo_version | 12:33 |
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| lardman | thanks Jaffa | 12:33 |
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| _berto_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTy-qwYLF8I | 12:41 |
| RST38h | http://www.mobile-review.com/lj/2376.jpg | 12:41 |
| RST38h | Hehe | 12:42 |
| lardman | I'm thinking of adding something like libethos support to mbarcode so people can write plugins that appear in the app and use the barcode data | 12:42 |
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| lardman | do you reckon that's worth doing, or should I just send the data out over dbus? | 12:42 |
| v2px | lol @ the "oh pls dont ever again make stupid aps in iphone style " comment | 12:42 |
| RST38h | lardman: With mbarcode, I would say dbus | 12:43 |
| lardman | would it not be a bit clunky needing two apps open all the time? | 12:43 |
| RST38h | Does mbarcode have a UI now? | 12:43 |
| RST38h | or is it more like a daemon? | 12:43 |
| lardman | yeah always has had | 12:44 |
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| RST38h | I would daemonize it in some way, like GPS thingie | 12:44 |
| lardman | no has a ui, to allow you to see what you're scanning | 12:44 |
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| Termana | My Nokia N810 finally arrived :D rawr :D its much much smaller than I imagined | 12:45 |
| lardman | Stefan Kost has written a GStreamer element to use zbar, which could would serve that purpose I guess | 12:45 |
| * RST38h is thinking how barcode acquisition can be integrated into an arbitrary app | 12:46 | |
| lardman | most apps will need to have a ui to aim and trigger the camera at least | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | Termana: cool :) | 12:46 |
| lardman | so may as well let plugins run in that app, was my thought | 12:46 |
| Termana | Stskeeps: Cant wait to try Mer on it :D lol | 12:47 |
| Termana | IF I can even get the back cover back on :| | 12:47 |
| wazd | maemo.org is finally fast? :) | 12:47 |
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| RST38h | lardman: how about the ui-less daemon that pops up a little viewfinder on dbus request and says "click on the viewfinder to scan the barcode? | 12:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: yea. right. | 12:48 |
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| wazd | RST38h: moo :) | 12:48 |
| RST38h | moo, yea | 12:48 |
| lardman | RST38h: I guess that would be workable, might be issues if an app is already using the camera though | 12:49 |
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| Termana | any damn tips for getting the Nokia N810 cover back on :| | 12:49 |
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| RST38h | top first then the bottom afaik | 12:50 |
| lardman | slide in at the top and press in the bottom | 12:50 |
| RST38h | lardman: then you return a error code | 12:50 |
| lardman | then jiggle a bit to get the latch to close | 12:50 |
| lardman | RST38h: yes | 12:50 |
| RST38h | lardman: camera being unavailable is something the user has to take care about, not your problem | 12:51 |
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| Termana | Thanks guys, I got it :D I won't be taking that thing off anytime soon though | 12:51 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: http://github.com/dsample/mobilebarcoder | 12:53 |
| Myrtti | oh, aqcuisition. | 12:53 |
| Myrtti | nevermind | 12:53 |
| * Myrtti hides | 12:53 | |
| Myrtti | english language understanding fail due to lack of sleep and head full of mucus | 12:54 |
| * RST38h hunts for Myrtti with a preheated barcoder | 12:54 | |
| Myrtti | ooo warmth | 12:54 |
| lardman | np :) | 12:54 |
| Myrtti | can you point that thing to my ankles, they're freezing | 12:55 |
| * SpeedEvil is warming up after going outside and working on cold wood. | 12:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | ~1C | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 12:55 |
| RST38h | yea, except that you may start triggering supermarket scanners afterward | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | And wet | 12:55 |
| RST38h | badly exposed ankle - and you are 4.99 euros poorer =) | 12:56 |
| Myrtti | burkhas ftw | 12:56 |
| Macer | hm | 12:57 |
| Macer | make+gcc is pretty good on the mem | 12:57 |
| Macer | 10% or so | 12:58 |
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| Macer | bitbake was like 80% on both :) | 12:58 |
| * lardman curses his ssh connection | 12:59 | |
| lardman | or more accurately, Nautilus for not working with sftp | 13:00 |
| lardman | I thought Nautilus had been replaced? | 13:00 |
| Myrtti | with what? | 13:01 |
| lardman | dunno | 13:01 |
| lardman | something that works perhaps | 13:01 |
| lardman | ;) | 13:01 |
| lardman | Right, have uploaded new version of mbarcode for diablo users, pushed some changes to make sure it builds, and pushed zbar-0.10 to extras-devel for diablo (was already there for Fremantle) | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Among the changes Asus has made to the device are the replacement of its 5in resistive touchscreen display with a capacitive panel. <--- that is asus keyboard | 13:02 |
| wazd | jeez! I just crapped my pants! | 13:03 |
| wazd | cause of that maemoproject stuff :D | 13:03 |
| wazd | crazy finnish bastards :) | 13:03 |
| lardman | does anything happen? | 13:04 |
| wazd | yeah :D | 13:04 |
| lardman | wow that's loud | 13:04 |
| lardman | at about what time? | 13:04 |
| wazd | 9m | 13:05 |
| lardman | hmm, 7min to wait then :) | 13:05 |
| tekojo | wazd what maemoproject ? | 13:05 |
| wazd | tekojo: http://www.maemoproject.com/ | 13:06 |
| tekojo | Does it now do something? | 13:06 |
| v2px | hint: click it | 13:06 |
| wazd | tekojo: if you'll watch closely, you can notice n900 release date at about 9m mark | 13:06 |
| RST38h | lardman: Oh, THAT thing | 13:07 |
| tekojo | 9m mark? don't get it | 13:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh THAT thing | 13:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: They say that you can find 2500+ varieties of mushrooms in Finnish forests... | 13:07 |
| jaska | om nom nom | 13:07 |
| wazd | tekojo: about 9 minutes | 13:07 |
| wazd | tekojo: there's a timer | 13:08 |
| tekojo | RST38h yes, and some of them are excellent! | 13:08 |
| lardman | and 99% make you create strange videos? | 13:08 |
| jaska | 1up shrooms | 13:08 |
| tekojo | I need to drink coffee for nine minutes? | 13:08 |
| RST38h | tekojo: ...as this video clearly indicates | 13:08 |
| wazd | tekojo: for 8:30 :) | 13:08 |
| lardman | must have been a quiet day at Nokia HQ, no-one using a perfectly serviceable meeting room | 13:08 |
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| wazd | I failed to make a shot but there's really n900 release date there | 13:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: So what is it? =) | 13:09 |
| tekojo | oh, I need to watch it then too | 13:09 |
| lardman | is there any guidance about how to make your app rotate? | 13:09 |
| RST38h | yep | 13:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: I was too surprised to see it, don't remember :D | 13:10 |
| RST38h | lardman: A moment | 13:10 |
| murrayc | http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Finding_Out_The_Current_Hardware_Orientation | 13:10 |
| murrayc | It's no fun. | 13:10 |
| lardman | thanks | 13:10 |
| RST38h | this is not sufficient | 13:10 |
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| lardman | 7m50s, getting excited now! | 13:11 |
| lardman | all the coffee I've drunk | 13:11 |
| wazd | lardman: stay focused, I just saw "You'll see n900 at ..." | 13:12 |
| wazd | lardman: missed the actual date | 13:12 |
| v2px | :> | 13:12 |
| lardman | at 9m I saw something odd on the table, nothing else | 13:13 |
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| RST38h | lardman: http://repo.or.cz/w/gpodder.git?a=blob;f=src/gpodder/gtkui/frmntl/portrait.py | 13:14 |
| wazd | lardman: no sound I guess? :D | 13:14 |
| lardman | hmm, at 10m it starts again | 13:14 |
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| lardman | yeah sound, but just gobledeegook | 13:14 |
| Robot101 | dd if=/dev/coffee of=/dev/robot101 bs=1cup count=1 | 13:14 |
| wazd | lardman: damn, you're boring :D | 13:14 |
| lardman | RST38h: thanks | 13:15 |
| wazd | lardman: and cold blooded :) | 13:15 |
| lardman | wazd: should I have actually seen/heard something, not feeling too hot so perhaps I didn't hear it | 13:15 |
| wazd | lardman: ofcourse not :) | 13:15 |
| wazd | lardman: this is the fake scene from "Paranormal Activity" movie :) | 13:16 |
| lardman | ah, well another useful 10m of my life wasted then ;) | 13:16 |
| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/04/asa_ruling/ | 13:16 |
| lardman | ah, not seen that | 13:16 |
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| wazd | lardman: that "something" was dog :) | 13:16 |
| * RST38h suddenly understands that he is to blame for this promo video | 13:16 | |
| RST38h | Should not have been quoting SCP at #maemo with so many Nokians around. | 13:17 |
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| jaska | :D | 13:18 |
| lardman | hmm, so what should I do to replace a gtk_notebook? | 13:18 |
| lardman | I'm not so keen on the idea of panning, as each notebook page should really be separate | 13:19 |
| lardman | who does the desktop do its view switching? | 13:19 |
| RST38h | lardman: afaik you are now supposed to pan | 13:20 |
| lardman | sideways? | 13:20 |
| RST38h | yea | 13:20 |
| lardman | that would work | 13:20 |
| lardman | as long as it pans one page at a time | 13:20 |
| RST38h | also look at addressbook in vertical mode | 13:21 |
| RST38h | (go to phone, switch to vertical layout, press "select contact") | 13:21 |
| lardman | I don't want a panning listview though | 13:21 |
| lardman | or can I place each of my "frames" in a listview? | 13:22 |
| lardman | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Migration: Because the use of notebooks is not advised in Hildon, the way to migrate a Maemo 4 dialog with notebook to Maemo 5, is to simply put all the items inside a single pannable dialog. | 13:22 |
| lardman | not quite what I was after | 13:22 |
| mgedmin | lardman, the ui guidelines suggest replacing notebooks in dialogs with one long vertical list of fields | 13:22 |
| mgedmin | what is your use case? | 13:22 |
| RST38h | lardman: developer guide mostly suggests brain damaged approaches at the moment :( | 13:22 |
| lardman | mgedmin: my main window currently uses a notebook to separate out the acquisition view from the db view from the search view, etc | 13:23 |
| lardman | I should add I hate GUIs, so this was just expedient | 13:23 |
| RST38h | oh I know! | 13:24 |
| mgedmin | stackable windows! | 13:24 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Filter buttons in the menu? Would get annoying though, rather quickly.. | 13:24 |
| RST38h | lardman: Use a bunch of filter items in the menu | 13:24 |
| RST38h | heh | 13:24 |
| * qwerty12 gets the point | 13:24 | |
| lardman | hmm, having to tap twice everywhere would indeed be annoying | 13:24 |
| mgedmin | tree structure: main window with buttons for "acquire", "browse", "search" | 13:24 |
| lardman | if I could do the desktop-style swipe to get to the next page, that would work | 13:25 |
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| RST38h | I have a better idea | 13:25 |
| mgedmin | maemo 5 tends to make the user tap twice as much as before | 13:25 |
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| mgedmin | given my experience with the desktop, horizontal swipe to pan _doesn't work_ | 13:25 |
| RST38h | How about a vertical strip of buttons at the right side of the screen for switching views? | 13:25 |
| * qwerty12 just uses a bunch of GtkToggleButtons on the dialog itself. Same vein as a GtkNotebook, but at least the buttons can be hit by fingers... | 13:25 | |
| mgedmin | 40% of the time it wiggles and snaps back to the same view | 13:25 |
| RST38h | yea, swipes are overrated | 13:25 |
| lardman | mgedmin: works well for me, but then that's just me | 13:25 |
| mgedmin | I assume I'm not using enough force | 13:26 |
| RST38h | mostly dirties the screen for me | 13:26 |
| lardman | RST38h, qwerty12: yeah, then I may as well just use a notebook and be done with it ;) | 13:26 |
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| RST38h | also, scratching across the whole screen with your nails is scary :) | 13:26 |
| lardman | but mgedmin is right, perhaps I should go for a load of views which can be opened from each other | 13:27 |
| lardman | oh the pain of using GUIs | 13:27 |
| qwerty12 | friendliness | 13:27 |
| qwerty12 | Eh | 13:27 |
| mgedmin | consistency is valuable | 13:27 |
| mgedmin | (up to a point, anyway) | 13:27 |
| lardman | -h always gives you help, what more do you need? ;) | 13:27 |
| Macer | blah | 13:27 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Oh, been using dh_make -h a lot? ;) | 13:28 |
| tigert | lardman: what app? | 13:28 |
| lardman | dh_make is a waste of time | 13:28 |
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| Macer | still building this touchbook kernel from Stskeeps' mer kernel srv | 13:28 |
| Macer | src | 13:28 |
| lardman | tigert: mbarcode | 13:28 |
| tigert | lardman: see how browser does it? its a compromise too, but it has a menu with N items | 13:28 |
| tigert | each opens a dialog with more buttons | 13:28 |
| tigert | no wait | 13:28 |
| tigert | its not quite the same case though | 13:28 |
| lardman | I'm talking about the main view, not a menu/dialog though | 13:28 |
| tigert | got a screenshot? | 13:28 |
| tigert | or is it in repo? | 13:29 |
| lardman | no, is here though: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/mbarcode/ | 13:29 |
| lardman | I need to debianise it | 13:29 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: If your application is better suited using a GtkNotebook, then use it. Nokia are not exactly holier than thou in this respect (look at the advanced settings in connectivity) | 13:29 |
| lardman | yeah | 13:29 |
| qwerty12 | +dialog | 13:29 |
| tigert | lardman: got a screenshot? | 13:30 |
| lardman | hang on, let me find a device | 13:30 |
| lardman | what was the magic keypress to screenshots? | 13:30 |
| murrayc | qwerty12: I think that UI is just something that they forgot or didn't have time to fix. It's quite awful. | 13:31 |
| qwerty12 | murrayc: Good point. Wonder if they actually will get around to fixing it, though... | 13:31 |
| mgedmin | lardman, ctrl+shift+p | 13:31 |
| tigert | qwerty12: the connection settings is not using maemo5 stuff much at all | 13:31 |
| murrayc | qwerty12: We could file a bug. | 13:31 |
| RST38h | file a bug for the pdf viewer as well then | 13:31 |
| tigert | well, notes and sketch | 13:32 |
| qwerty12 | murrayc: I still find the use of depreciated widgets by Nokia fun. Look at the Display control panel applet | 13:32 |
| lardman | mgedmin: thanks | 13:32 |
| qwerty12 | *deprecated | 13:32 |
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| * murrayc tries not to rant again about the need to ifdef just to get the correct appearance. | 13:32 | |
| tigert | qwerty12: other option would have been to fix them and ship it next christmas :) | 13:33 |
| tigert | but yeah, those apps are an eyesore | 13:33 |
| qwerty12 | tigert: True. :) It just doesn't give the idea of a consistent UI :) | 13:33 |
| tigert | it doesnt | 13:33 |
| tigert | thats why we fixed those things first that the user sees most | 13:34 |
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| RST38h | the current GUI guidelines artifically limit functionality | 13:34 |
| tigert | like I never really did much in connectivity settings myself | 13:34 |
| tigert | someone likely will, but most people dont | 13:34 |
| RST38h | it make more sense to fix the guidelines first | 13:34 |
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| RST38h | Add back the submenus. Add back the pager of some kind. | 13:34 |
| RST38h | Not just say "you should simplify your UI and minimize the number of options" | 13:35 |
| tigert | nah | 13:35 |
| tigert | submenus suck | 13:35 |
| RST38h | Depends on how you implement them | 13:35 |
| tigert | browser has them implemented with dialogs in settings | 13:35 |
| tigert | it works ok | 13:35 |
| tigert | I think nested submenus are cumbersome | 13:35 |
| lardman | http://share.ovi.com/album/lardman.Random | 13:35 |
| lardman | finally | 13:35 |
| RST38h | Browser has got several seemingly randomly named menu items | 13:35 |
| RST38h | tigert: Consider this possible implementation: | 13:36 |
| qwerty12 | On the talk of Browser, will the Addons page stay as-is? | 13:36 |
| RST38h | tigert: Maemo5 already implements a special menu item called the Filter | 13:36 |
| tigert | RST38h: everyone also has an opinion about the browser :/ | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't. | 13:36 |
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| * SpeedEvil clicks order status page on nokia.co.uk again. | 13:36 | |
| tigert | RST38h: yeah this could work too, though its not used anywhere else, but an interesting thought | 13:36 |
| RST38h | tigert: What if we assume the top menu level being the filter items and submenus being the actual menu | 13:36 |
| tigert | RST38h: like tabbed menu :) | 13:36 |
| RST38h | tigert: Yep | 13:37 |
| RST38h | tigert: Allows one level of submenus, does not look ugly feels ok | 13:37 |
| tigert | lardman: yay, ovi share :) | 13:37 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Tear actually does it like this | 13:37 |
| lardman | I thought I should at least try it ;) | 13:37 |
| suihkulokki | tigert: talking about submenus, try to get to the menu where the "power managment" setting for a wifi ap is selected... | 13:37 |
| RST38h | tigert: About the browser, I am actually pretty positive on it, but the current menu items sound arbitrary | 13:37 |
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| lardman | bbiam | 13:38 |
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| RST38h | suihkulokki: This is as much about submenus as it is about braindamaged dialogs layout | 13:39 |
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| RST38h | suihkulokki: Where dialog boxes are no longer usable for most config dialogs (you have to use stackable windows for them) | 13:39 |
| tigert | lardman|gone: I think that ui needs a complete rethought. is that preferences or the actual UI? :) | 13:39 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: I'm still not sure why dialog buttons should not be on the bottom. I mean, it works well for toolbars :) | 13:43 |
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| tigert | qwerty12: because we thought it is more important to get one extra row in dialog lists | 13:45 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Same here. I think they have been trying to reimplement S60 simple dialogs | 13:45 |
| tigert | instead of wide content (when the screen is widescreen aspect already) | 13:45 |
| tigert | and we got rid of the maemo4 task navigator / toolbar thingy in the left | 13:45 |
| RST38h | tigert: :( | 13:45 |
| tigert | so dialog content is kinda same width than in maemo4 even when buttons on the right | 13:46 |
| RST38h | yea but the screen became physically smaller! | 13:46 |
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| tigert | a bit yeah | 13:46 |
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| RST38h | so the end result is that the old styled dialogs became too small | 13:47 |
| RST38h | the new styled dialogs do not allow pages and require a lot of scrolling with huge percentage of false clicks in the process | 13:47 |
| RST38h | I guess the best solution (under current constraints) would be to give dialogs the full screen and have a couple of transparen buttons labelled with arrows (OK and BACK) at the corner, like MicroB has | 13:48 |
| clmntch | good morning | 13:49 |
| mgedmin | btw maemo 5 dialog content area is a teeeny bit narrower than in maemo 4 | 13:49 |
| mgedmin | which you notice in fbreader's dialogs where some fields become invisible | 13:50 |
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| tigert | it is not that much smaller really | 13:53 |
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| RST38h | it is physically smaller | 13:53 |
| tigert | some extra width came from removing task navigator panel | 13:53 |
| tigert | so are widgets | 13:53 |
| tigert | but yeah | 13:53 |
| RST38h | but not my fingers or the stylus :) | 13:54 |
| RST38h | these are unfortunately of fixed width | 13:54 |
| tigert | diet? :) | 13:54 |
| * tigert RUS | 13:54 | |
| tigert | RUNS even | 13:54 |
| tigert | a finger-sharpener would be useful sometimes | 13:54 |
| RST38h | or that special door at Nokia HQ that they used on lcuk =) | 13:54 |
| tigert | especially with the browser | 13:54 |
| mgedmin | some sandpaper could help with the size of the stylus | 13:54 |
| tigert | heh yeah | 13:54 |
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| v2px | what size can the microSD be for the n900? | 13:58 |
| RST38h | Well, I have fixed the menu-hangs-tablet-hard-when-player-running bug | 13:59 |
| RurouniJones | 16gb isn't it? | 13:59 |
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| RST38h | 32 | 13:59 |
| RurouniJones | Oo they upeed it? | 13:59 |
| auenf | as big as microsdhc goes | 13:59 |
| RurouniJones | upped | 13:59 |
| RST38h | It is a dirty hack (I do not shut down sound when losing focus with menu activated) but it will prevent the hangups for now | 13:59 |
| RurouniJones | All the marketing stuff said 32gb expandable to 48 with mem card. | 14:00 |
| v2px | hmm but this says 16g: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications | 14:00 |
| auenf | cause only 16gb cards were available | 14:00 |
| RurouniJones | Ah right | 14:00 |
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| auenf | microsdxc starts at 64gb? | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI, yes. | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | SDHC runs out of steam at 32. | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't found out if SDXC includes a backwards compatible mode with SDHC controllers. It should be a simple driver change if it does | 14:01 |
| auenf | artificially limited to 32GB | 14:03 |
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| auenf | XC will require XC compliant devices | 14:03 |
| v2px | and what is the best sdhc manufacturer? :P | 14:03 |
| auenf | just get sandisk | 14:03 |
| v2px | alright, thx | 14:04 |
| javispedro | thank god #5524 (aka "they killed pulseaudio!" bug) is now "critical". | 14:05 |
| RST38h | javispedro: thank Jaffa not god | 14:06 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I actually implemented a temporal fix in my stuff | 14:06 |
| javispedro | not closing the pulse stream? | 14:06 |
| javispedro | :) | 14:06 |
| RST38h | javis: Only when the application menu is active | 14:07 |
| RST38h | javis: I left the rest as it is, so still hangs up on exit | 14:08 |
| javispedro | I don't want to even imagine what they did to pulse. | 14:08 |
| javispedro | your post about silence when the media player is on scares me. | 14:08 |
| RST38h | javis: You have not noticed? | 14:08 |
| javispedro | idonthaveann900... | 14:08 |
| RST38h | It does not seem to mix, at least the pa_simple_* stuff | 14:08 |
| javispedro | puaj. | 14:08 |
| javispedro | it's weird. | 14:09 |
| javispedro | the media player is not supposed to use pulse.. | 14:09 |
| javispedro | on n810 media player output went straight to one of the three dsp channels | 14:09 |
| javispedro | (the other two were reserved for esd output and alsa) | 14:09 |
| javispedro | good luck to whoever maintains pulse at nokia... | 14:10 |
| RST38h | there is an interesting corollary of this bug | 14:10 |
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| javispedro | "if it's not broken don't fix it"? :D | 14:10 |
| javispedro | s/fix/touch | 14:11 |
| RST38h | When application shows a menu, you can neither go into task switcher nor shut application down with the "app not responding" dialog | 14:11 |
| RST38h | So, if an app hangs in the menu, you are fucked. | 14:11 |
| javispedro | ah, like in desktop linux. | 14:11 |
| RST38h | really??? | 14:11 |
| javispedro | yep.. | 14:11 |
| javispedro | showing a menu gets a global pointer lock | 14:11 |
| javispedro | thus if the app hangs after getting the cursor lock, you're stuck. | 14:12 |
| * RST38h facepalms | 14:12 | |
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| javispedro | the "workaround" here was "don't do anything that could hang after having shown a menu", which is basically what you did. | 14:14 |
| RST38h | yep | 14:15 |
| * RST38h watches god turn the lights off behind his window | 14:15 | |
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| Termana | in s | 14:21 |
| Termana | damn it | 14:21 |
| Termana | in desktop linux if it hangs at the menu i've been able to exit the app | 14:22 |
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| * VDVsx steals andre__ 's bottle of wine :P | 14:23 | |
| andre__ | hey, I still need that one for breakfast! | 14:23 |
| javispedro | Termana: how? It will grab the pointer and steal all click events | 14:24 |
| javispedro | the only one I found to get out is to kill the offending app from ssh / term | 14:24 |
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| javispedro | (linux term, not xterm of course) | 14:24 |
| Termana | maybe i'm imagening things | 14:24 |
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| wazd_ | wow, I caught first BSOD in a year | 14:40 |
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| wazd_ | ironicaly, yesterday I've installed SP2 | 14:40 |
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| javispedro | yes!, yes!, yes! | 14:48 |
| Termana | vista sp2? | 14:48 |
| aquatix | aka win7? | 14:48 |
| javispedro | I got VMGL working. now to try if Fremante SDK works with it. | 14:49 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, how much space do microb take up on the N8x0 firmware? | 14:49 |
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| * RST38h found a way to upload screenshots to maemo.org Doanloads | 14:54 | |
| RST38h | javis: Care to guess what it is? ;) | 14:54 |
| javispedro | does it consist in telnet and writing POST HTTP/1.1 ? :) | 14:54 |
| RST38h | almost | 14:55 |
| javispedro | heh. | 14:55 |
| RST38h | you have to open the Edit Product page in IE8 *running in IE6 compat mode* | 14:55 |
| javispedro | lol | 14:55 |
| RST38h | then it seems to work | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Any version of FireFox or IE7/IE8 - and it times out | 14:56 |
| javispedro | did you try with a real IE6? | 14:56 |
| RST38h | Yes, but only through a proxy | 14:56 |
| javispedro | so it's true what they say. qwerty uses IE6 :) | 14:56 |
| RST38h | It also times out, with less probability | 14:56 |
| Termana | does microb cache pages? | 14:56 |
| javispedro | it has a 5MiB cache iirc. | 14:56 |
| javispedro | it does not cache as agressively as your average desktop though. the back button always requests the page here. | 14:56 |
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| mgedmin | almost always | 14:57 |
| RST38h | javis: Now, the next guy who tells me it is "server load related" gets murdered. | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | there was that one time when it didn't | 14:57 |
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| wazd | torrent seeders: 11210 | Download speed: 8 kb/s | 14:57 |
| mgedmin | RST38h, it was just a coincidence that the server responded quicker when you were using IE8 | 14:57 |
| wazd | what the hell... | 14:58 |
| mgedmin | or maybe a Microsoft load balancer prioritising IE requests somewhere in the infrastructure | 14:58 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Given that I made several attempts over two days and IE8-IE6-mode always worked while FF did not... | 14:58 |
| * javispedro causes a stack overflow by making the GL wrapper wrap the GL wrapper which wraps the GL wrapper that wraps the GL wrapper that | 14:58 | |
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| RST38h | javis: ....that tells you in nice 3D letters: 0fps | 14:59 |
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| Termana | yo dawg... | 14:59 |
| javispedro | it would be better than software rendering at least. | 14:59 |
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| javispedro | http://maemo.pastebin.com/d25a311cc | 15:00 |
| javispedro | hehehe | 15:00 |
| RST38h | oh...so two wrappers are wrapping each other? | 15:01 |
| javispedro | exactly. | 15:01 |
| javispedro | instead of one of the two deciding to call the remote stub | 15:01 |
| Macer | the saga continues | 15:01 |
| Macer | still building a kernel on my touchbook heh | 15:01 |
| mgedmin | "you do it", "no, you do it" | 15:01 |
| Macer | in soviet russia we use arm for building, not cross compiler | 15:02 |
| javispedro | in soviet russia and in gentoo :) | 15:02 |
| Macer | i wouldn't even try gentoo on this thing :) | 15:02 |
| Macer | it would be chaos | 15:02 |
| javispedro | ok, I'm near! I'm near! | 15:03 |
| javispedro | yes!!!!!!!!!!! | 15:03 |
| javispedro | yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 | 15:03 |
| Macer | javispedro: uhm | 15:03 |
| * aquatix hands javispedro a tissue | 15:03 | |
| javispedro | finally 3D accelerated xephyr. | 15:03 |
| Macer | found out how to get your n810 to project a girlfriend? | 15:03 |
| Macer | oh wow.. really?? | 15:03 |
| Macer | that's amazing | 15:03 |
| wazd | haha, can't use it in VM :D | 15:03 |
| * tigert wishes for stretchable xephyr | 15:03 | |
| Macer | with mgx drivers or something? | 15:03 |
| tigert | but yeah, no luck for that in vmware :( | 15:04 |
| javispedro | VMGL, uses host 3D drivers AND works with nvidia propietary drivers | 15:04 |
| javispedro | and yes, you can use it in a VM | 15:04 |
| tigert | javispedro: url? | 15:04 |
| javispedro | what url! | 15:04 |
| Macer | javispedro: hahaha | 15:04 |
| javispedro | I just got it work. | 15:04 |
| tigert | :) | 15:04 |
| Macer | what is the point ? :) | 15:04 |
| Myrtti | URL OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN | 15:04 |
| tigert | PACKAGES. NOW. | 15:04 |
| tigert | :) | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | can xepher do disconnects and reconnects to other heads? | 15:04 |
| Myrtti | *splört* | 15:04 |
| tigert | eww | 15:04 |
| lardman_ | speaking of 3Dness, what's the status of the PowerVR stuff? | 15:04 |
| Macer | javispedro: if you can't do it on your n810 then why bother? :) | 15:04 |
| aquatix | Myrtti: lol | 15:05 |
| mgedmin | yeah, haven't those two weeks already passed? | 15:05 |
| lardman_ | feels like it | 15:05 |
| javispedro | Macer: cause I can finally watch the fremantle 3d transitions in non slow-mo | 15:05 |
| Macer | oh. n900 devel? | 15:05 |
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| Macer | i figured you were doing it so people can use opengles on their n810s finally | 15:05 |
| Macer | :) | 15:05 |
| mgedmin | I wish I could watch some fremantle 3d transmissions in fast-motion on the n900 | 15:05 |
| javispedro | Macer: haha, I wish. Where are those 3d drivers??? :)( | 15:06 |
| mgedmin | specifically, the "flip around, go get a cup of coffee, flip back" transition from portrait to landscape and vice versa | 15:06 |
| Macer | javispedro: heh.. well. they were SUPPOSED to be making it out there | 15:06 |
| Macer | who knows though | 15:06 |
| aquatix | mgedmin: will be fixed in harmattan | 15:06 |
| * aquatix runs | 15:06 | |
| Macer | i think they are worried people will buy $150 n810s off ebay than n900s | 15:06 |
| Macer | :) | 15:06 |
| lardman_ | aquatix: lol | 15:06 |
| javispedro | the orangeness is still there. But I already knew that. | 15:07 |
| lardman_ | aquatix: probably will be, as they use more acceleration in Qt | 15:07 |
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| javispedro | ~seen Firebird | 15:08 |
| infobot | firebird <n=Firebird@pool-138-88-201-253.res.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 19h 18m 18s ago, saying: 'oh, thanks GeneralAntilles...'. | 15:08 |
| javispedro | hmpf. | 15:08 |
| javispedro | well, going to eat. see you. | 15:08 |
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| kulve | lardman_: Ameet said that the drivers will be released in 2-3 weeks. It's now been 3.5 weeks | 15:09 |
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| derf | Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery. | 15:10 |
| lardman_ | kulve: thanks | 15:10 |
| mgedmin | you know the algorithm for estimates: multiply by two and shift units to the next level | 15:10 |
| mgedmin | so, 4 months | 15:10 |
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| RST38h | javis, qwerty, Jaffa: Ok, take a look here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 | 15:15 |
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| RST38h | I have done some research | 15:15 |
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| RST38h | Moo, derf | 15:16 |
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| derf | ? | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Looks like a reasonable analysis | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Hello, I mean. | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Someone willing to compile pulseaudio and try it with printf()s is needed | 15:16 |
| derf | Oh, it had been so long since I'd said something I'd forgotten I had. | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: about 40 minutes of work, given that you have the environment set up (I do not, with SB2 etc) | 15:18 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: No appropriate environment here, I'm afraid. | 15:18 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: VDVsx or qwerty might be able to do it | 15:19 |
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| AndrewFBlack | Anyone else get message that application failed to install when it did install on there N900? | 15:31 |
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| mgedmin | AndrewFBlack, what application, and what does the log say? | 15:32 |
| * mgedmin bets the app failed in postinst | 15:33 | |
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| ablack_ | mgedmin, lots, about 80% of what I've installed I will have to check the log | 15:37 |
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| mgedmin | are you sure you're not running out of disk space? | 15:38 |
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| mgedmin | I had a bunch of "failures" when the app installed, ran gtk-update-icon-cache, which complained about being out of disk space | 15:38 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: known bug | 15:39 |
| cocayden | anybody having issues running apt-get update in scratchbox? | 15:39 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: #5450 | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | gaaah, please, somebody write a bug-number-to-clickable-link bot | 15:40 |
| Jaffa | that'd be cool | 15:42 |
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| * mgedmin reads about http://code.google.com/p/supybot-bugzilla/ | 15:46 | |
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| * RST38h ready to kill tracker | 15:50 | |
| RST38h | useless thing... who said I want to have my files indexed? | 15:51 |
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| fiferboy | RST38h: Are you using tracker for any programming, or is it just getting in the way? | 15:51 |
| RST38h | getting in the way | 15:51 |
| mgedmin | bug 5450 | 15:51 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5450 major, High, ---, nobody@maemo.org, NEW, Installing many packages at a time via App Manager exhausts rootfs space | 15:51 |
| mgedmin | ta-dah! | 15:51 |
| RST38h | coooool | 15:52 |
| VDVsx | eeheh | 15:52 |
| fiferboy | whoa! | 15:52 |
| RST38h | and let us see if bug 5450 works like this | 15:52 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, btw, I don't have last sbox installed :( | 15:52 |
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| RST38h | vdvsx: no fremantle sdk? | 15:52 |
| fiferboy | bug 6035 | 15:53 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6035 enhancement, Low, ---, andrew.olmsted@gmail.com, NEW, Make better use of the widget space | 15:53 |
| RST38h | yohoho | 15:53 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, I've beta 2 | 15:53 |
| RST38h | vdvsx: by all means upgrade | 15:53 |
| RST38h | vdvsx: it is useful even if you are not planning to look at pa | 15:53 |
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| Jaffa | mgedmin: Should pick out #(\d{3,4}) wherever it appears in the text (and why 'pov'?) | 15:55 |
| mgedmin | pov is the name of the company I work for; the bots' original purpose was to log our irc channel | 15:55 |
| Jaffa | Ah | 15:55 |
| mgedmin | I don't see a regexp among the plugin's options | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | Of course, pov in the fqdn | 15:56 |
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| mgedmin | #6035 | 15:57 |
| mgedmin | nope | 15:57 |
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| mgedmin | the regexp is r"(?P<url>https?://\S+/)show_bug.cgi\?id=(?P<bug>\w+)" | 15:57 |
| mgedmin | no it isn't | 15:57 |
| mgedmin | r"""\b((?P<install>\w+)\b\s*)?(?P<type>bug|attachment)\b[\s#]*(?P<id>\d+)""" | 15:57 |
| RST38h | jaffa: sure you want such a chatty bot? | 15:58 |
| jooon | mgedmin: that took you ten minutes to implement? good job :) | 16:00 |
| jooon | the bug thing... | 16:00 |
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| mgedmin | jooon, for values of "implement" meaning google up the plugin, check it out, configure it by chatting to the bot | 16:05 |
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| wazd_ | bug 666 | 16:08 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666 Problems with Javascript setTimeout function | 16:08 |
| wazd_ | meheheh | 16:08 |
| Macer | http://pastebin.com/d6c29f005 | 16:13 |
| Macer | can someone explain that one to me? | 16:13 |
| Macer | i don't really know why the usb stuff is making the kernel stop its build | 16:13 |
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| lardman_ | where does omap_dm_timer_*() live? | 16:15 |
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| VDVsx | wazd_, everybody knows that javascript is evil :P | 16:16 |
| Macer | lardman: i honestly don't know. | 16:16 |
| Macer | i have been looking through everything and been trying to tweak the kernel but can't find out where it is losing it | 16:16 |
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| Macer | i'm going to disable usb altogether and see if it builds to see if there is maybe an option i am missing when trying to build it | 16:17 |
| lardman | arch/arm/plat-omap/dmtimer.c | 16:17 |
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| Macer | so is it a problem with the actual code in dmtimer.c? | 16:18 |
| Macer | that is beyond me then :) | 16:18 |
| lardman | you need another object file linked in | 16:19 |
| lardman | but why it's not being, I've no idea | 16:19 |
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| lardman | in fact you probably need yet another to handle the twl4030_i2c_write_u8() stuff too, I imgaine that will be somewhere else | 16:20 |
| lardman | is that the start of the build? | 16:20 |
| VDVsx | seems that maemo.org people are receiving nice e-mails ;) : http://pastebin.com/m64dde61e | 16:21 |
| lardman | strange that it's trying to link everything together there, or is that how it's done? | 16:21 |
| lardman | lol | 16:21 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: lol | 16:21 |
| lardman | where was that sent to? | 16:21 |
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| VDVsx | lardman, got it on twitter from yerga ;) | 16:22 |
| VDVsx | seems that zerojay received it as well ;) | 16:22 |
| lbt | aww, they let the nokians out :) | 16:22 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Not sure | 16:24 |
| javispedro | lol, the know their targets well (high karma) | 16:24 |
| javispedro | s/the/they | 16:24 |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: KILL KILL | 16:24 |
| * VDVsx bets that Jaffa, Quim and Tim have received one too ;) | 16:25 | |
| * javispedro bets that someone replied | 16:25 | |
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| Macer | blah. looks like i am going to have to break down and just use my debian box | 16:26 |
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| RST38h | TouchBook 1 : Macer 0 | 16:26 |
| Macer | what is it that makes doing stuff like thsi natively on arm so difficult? | 16:26 |
| Macer | RST38h: haha | 16:26 |
| RST38h | Macer: Memory bandwidth. | 16:26 |
| fiferboy | Hi wazd_ | 16:26 |
| RST38h | Coupled with miniscule cache sizes | 16:27 |
| Macer | RST38h: arm 20 macer 0 | 16:27 |
| * javispedro doesn't have enough karma for "this guy". | 16:27 | |
| Macer | you missed my n810 fun earlier maybe? :) | 16:27 |
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| Macer | RST38h: yeah but a kernel isn't that much to build | 16:27 |
| Macer | probably takes 45mins on a 600MHz arm | 16:27 |
| RST38h | Building stuff is CPU/disk/memory intensive. So just cross build | 16:27 |
| Macer | if it can make it all the way | 16:28 |
| Macer | RST38h: that is complacency talking :) | 16:28 |
| RST38h | No, just cynical practicality | 16:28 |
| javispedro | RST38h: "handle SIGARLM ignore" in gdb | 16:28 |
| RST38h | You have got that steaming Intel box that will run circles around your ARM | 16:29 |
| javispedro | er... nothing, sorry. | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Not because it is better, necessarily, but because it has been built with different goals in mind | 16:29 |
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| RST38h | So why not use that box? Why try riding cockroaches? | 16:29 |
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| RST38h | javis: that was strace, can't do that :) | 16:30 |
| javispedro | yeah, noticed it late :) | 16:30 |
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| javispedro | the trace is hardly useful though. not all futex operations show up there. | 16:31 |
| Macer | RST38h: i think i am finally going to have to agree with you on this one :) | 16:31 |
| Macer | let me start up the debian vm | 16:31 |
| javispedro | even though it proves there's something blocked waiting for one. | 16:31 |
| Macer | er.. vbox | 16:31 |
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| Jaffa | javispedro: I think my spam filter caught it | 16:32 |
| javispedro | lol. | 16:32 |
| RST38h | javis: I suspect that the main business happened when I oopened the menu, but it does not show up in the strace | 16:32 |
| javispedro | my spam filter caught quite a few of the tmo post notifications. | 16:33 |
| * lardman ponders what's wrong with his code | 16:33 | |
| * javispedro receives spam with subject "Stop sitting near computer, let's go out" | 16:34 | |
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| RST38h | lardman: You wrote it in FORTRAN? =) | 16:37 |
| lardman | no, C, but FORTRAN might have been a better bet | 16:37 |
| fiferboy | lardman: Did you get the packaging sorted out? | 16:37 |
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| lardman | fiferboy: yes, thanks | 16:37 |
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| lardman | fiferboy: or at least sorted enough that it built ok | 16:38 |
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| fiferboy | lardman: So packaging works. Now you just need the code to work? ;) | 16:38 |
| fiferboy | Or is this different code? | 16:38 |
| lardman | oh no, this is day job | 16:38 |
| lardman | FDE code | 16:38 |
| fiferboy | Ah, that doesn't matter so much then | 16:38 |
| lardman | lol, nah | 16:38 |
| lardman | hmm, still need to test emerillon once it gets into extras-devel to see if ethos is working properly with its update | 16:39 |
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| fiferboy | Is it building now? Or waiting for import | 16:39 |
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| qwerty12 | lardman: I'd say "if it gets into extras-devel"... :p | 16:40 |
| * qwerty12 hides | 16:40 | |
| lardman | oi, it said it build ok | 16:40 |
| fiferboy | There should be a bot that tracks how many times qwerty12 ducks or hides | 16:40 |
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| lardman | he'll have back problems when he hits his teens | 16:41 |
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| lardman | while I do like it that App Manager gives some feedback that it's doing something now, what on earth is it actually doing that tajkes this long!? | 16:43 |
| qwerty12 | Giving the feedback | 16:43 |
| RST38h | lardman: Updating repo lists | 16:44 |
| RST38h | from the network | 16:44 |
| lardman | yay, emerillon now working | 16:44 |
| lardman | just needs hildonificationeration | 16:44 |
| RST38h | Better tell me: when you start app manager and immediately click on Updates, does it disappear for you? And then reappear? | 16:44 |
| lardman | RST38h: just seems to take a loooong time | 16:45 |
| qwerty12 | lardman: Oh, while we're are on the subject of the Application Manager, it also uses a GtkNotebook in its Details dialog. And I see its interface is pretty "Fremantleized"... | 16:45 |
| lardman | RST38h: what the focus goes to the app behind it? | 16:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: depends on the number of enabled repos and their responsiveness | 16:45 |
| lardman | yeah that happens for all apps for me | 16:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: Yes | 16:45 |
| fiferboy | GtkNotebook! I thought those were outlawed... | 16:45 |
| RST38h | Only happens for App Manager here | 16:45 |
| RST38h | the hell they are... | 16:45 |
| * RST38h gloomily looks over the memory page cache implementation | 16:46 | |
| qwerty12 | Double standards, boys, double standards :-) | 16:46 |
| fiferboy | Not even qwerty12 uses GtkNotebook, and he loves deprecated widgets | 16:46 |
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| qwerty12 | I still continue to use deprecated widgets because Nokia continue to do the same | 16:46 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: When the Style Guide finally covers all common UI use scenarios, we will all drop old widgets | 16:47 |
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| Myrtti | wrongdoings of others do not justify yours | 16:47 |
| Myrtti | ;-) | 16:47 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: Until then, screw 'em | 16:47 |
| qwerty12 | That said, considering Maemo 6 will use Qt, how exactly will these widgets be dropped | 16:47 |
| lardman | no, I'd do wrong even if they didn't | 16:47 |
| mgedmin | qwerty12, wholesale | 16:47 |
| qwerty12 | Myrtti: Bah, I follow the crowd :-) | 16:47 |
| RST38h | qwerty: They do not have to be dropped | 16:47 |
| Myrtti | cheeky bastards | 16:47 |
| fiferboy | I'll settle for the widget gallery for maemo5 showing maemo5 widgets instead of maemo4 | 16:47 |
| clmntch | hrm | 16:47 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Just reimplemented in Qt | 16:47 |
| javispedro | qwerty12: that means RST38h is right, all widgets will be dropped :) | 16:47 |
| pw_1234 | when do developers get time to go over old code and change wholesale things like widget choice? | 16:48 |
| lardman | yeah, a subtle ploy to get us using Qt now | 16:48 |
| RST38h | javis: Will we finally switch to javascript based UI with Qt? =)~~ | 16:48 |
| * RST38h hides | 16:48 | |
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| pw_1234 | class qtwidget{ import gtkwidget }; | 16:48 |
| javispedro | ya well! I will only use KDE with my dead cold fingers! | 16:48 |
| * lardman wonders what the logic behind the checking for updates progress bar is....? | 16:48 | |
| RST38h | lardman: step = 100/number-of-repos ? | 16:49 |
| lardman | apparently not | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Actually not | 16:49 |
| RST38h | It starts the bar progress anew for each repo | 16:49 |
| lardman | step = 0.5; do something and get stuck in a loop | 16:49 |
| lardman | why does it get stuck when I can run apt-get update from the command line without problems | 16:50 |
| mgedmin | command-line apt also has a very interesting progress bar | 16:50 |
| mgedmin | it's as if current_step increases steadily, but the total_number_of_steps increases in leaps every now and then | 16:51 |
| pw_1234 | mgedmin: yeah as it finds out it has additional work in each repo it must adjust the bar to compensate | 16:51 |
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| pw_1234 | most progress indicators do the same | 16:51 |
| lardman | at least I can see it doing something on the command line | 16:51 |
| mgedmin | most progress indicators are lying to me | 16:52 |
| pw_1234 | 97% of statistics are made up on the spot | 16:52 |
| RST38h | these are not statistics | 16:53 |
| RST38h | just some animated trinket to prevent you from destroying your device after the 7-secondwait period =) | 16:53 |
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| javispedro | 7 second wait? this is 2009. a iphone user would burn the device after 2 seconds of "no farts". | 16:54 |
| Myrtti | put a picture of a cheesecake on the screen | 16:55 |
| Myrtti | they'll look at it mesmerized and won't notice the time fly | 16:55 |
| mgedmin | I get the urges to burn something every time I scroll the web browser and tap on something only to have it redraw with a different content a few milliseconds later | 16:55 |
| derf | I'm sure AppMan could be made to fart while it updated. | 16:55 |
| lardman | aaaargh, why do I have to wait 10s for the list of catalogues to appear | 16:55 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Only if cheesecake smiles at them =) | 16:55 |
| mgedmin | microb + google reader == aaaaaaaugh! | 16:55 |
| mgedmin | lardman: apt is amazingly slow, even on desktops | 16:56 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: hehe ;) | 16:56 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: alternatively, a picture of a chihuahua http://cuteoverload.com/2009/11/04/fiesta-deck-or-promenade-deck/ | 16:56 |
| lardman | mgedmin: this is in the App Manager, when I want to add/remove them | 16:56 |
| * mgedmin is still waiting for somebody with sufficient resources to notice that problem and set out to fix it | 16:56 | |
| mgedmin | well, app manager uses apt as the backend, doesn't it? | 16:57 |
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| mgedmin | and when I said apt I meant the whole infrastructure rather than the tool | 16:57 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: Static stuff does not work, usually. Has to be a dancing chihuahua | 16:57 |
| lardman | mgedmin: fair enough | 16:57 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: I have got an idea: http://r33b.net/ | 16:57 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: yeah, that would wo.... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD | 16:58 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Oh. Shit. http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:HypnotoadIRL.jpg | 16:59 |
| RST38h | IT LIVES! | 16:59 |
| qwerty12 | KILL THE FUCKER | 16:59 |
| SpeedEvil | http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Hypnofish.PNG | 17:00 |
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| RST38h | [carefully] It looks like the Tentacled One's ambassador. Are you sure you want to kill it? | 17:00 |
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| qwerty12 | Hmm, yes, you are right. I do not wish to kill it. Killing the Tentacled One instead would be much more satisfactory | 17:01 |
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| qwerty12 | Then the pieces can be served at the next Summit | 17:02 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Psychedelic_frogfish_-_face_08Am3b.jpg | 17:02 |
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| RST38h | Recless they are, who wish to harm the Tentacled One... | 17:03 |
| mihu | Is there a gdbserver available for remote debugging on the N900` | 17:07 |
| javispedro | hum. bolognese... | 17:08 |
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| javispedro | "Somalia has the highest number of Pirates AND the lowest Carbon emissions of any country." | 17:11 |
| javispedro | the Tentacled One will be pretty happy I guess. | 17:12 |
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| lardman | lol | 17:14 |
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| RST38h | javis: That is not where he lives though | 17:15 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: He doesn't have to: He'll be kidnapped and taken there | 17:15 |
| lardman | he's omnipresent isn't he? | 17:15 |
| qwerty12 | And I'd like to see him escape from 1001 AK-47s | 17:16 |
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| lardman | he's got frikkin tentacles | 17:16 |
| javispedro | I like to see him escape from MY fork | 17:16 |
| qwerty12 | Mmm, Cthulhu on toast... | 17:16 |
| mgedmin | mihu, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Debugging_Guide#Preparing_Internet_Tablet_for_Debugging | 17:17 |
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| suihkulokki | 16:55 < mgedmin> microb + google reader == aaaaaaaugh! | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | yes, suihkulokki | 17:17 |
| suihkulokki | mgedmin: use the iphone version of google reader | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | I am | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | the 'aagh' is because google reader resizes divs or iframes or whatever it has there | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | and microb shows old contents while you're panning | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | then redraws new contents on top of them | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | which is very disconcerning | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | *disconcerting | 17:18 |
| suihkulokki | looks fine to me when panning | 17:18 |
| mihu | mgedmin: Great. Thanks! | 17:18 |
| javispedro | ok. | 17:18 |
| javispedro | so if I unpacked nearly a gigabyte of source packages, changing random files in them, and now want to produce a proper patch... something installable by a mortal... | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | suihkulokki, try opening a looong post, deciding you'll read it later, pan all the way down to find the [x] mark as read, click on it, pan all the way back up to find the next post | 17:19 |
| javispedro | considering most of the edited files were edited only to add "fprintf(stderr..." of key variables... | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | I'd take a screencast, but load-applet records only a blank screen | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | hm | 17:20 |
| qwerty12 | mgedmin: There's a fix for that: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=341807&postcount=8 | 17:21 |
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| mgedmin | actually, panning back up is not necessary | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | just try to read the posts in order | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | I want a native app :/ | 17:22 |
| suihkulokki | mgedmin: what "mark as read" ? | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | just forget the marking as read part | 17:23 |
| suihkulokki | in the bottom of a post I see share/note/email/keep unread | 17:24 |
| mgedmin | http://mg.pov.lt/n900-microb-panning-bug.png | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | the picture looks like this while I'm holding my finger down | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | as soon as I lift it, the screen is redrawn properly | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | http://mg.pov.lt/n900-microb-panning-no-bug.png | 17:26 |
| RST38h | where is the bug? | 17:27 |
| RST38h | oh I see | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | bottom half of the page is not redrawn | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | until I release my finger | 17:27 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=365424#post365424 | 17:27 |
| RST38h | Well, you do know that you are looking at the buffer shared between MicroB and browserd? | 17:28 |
| RST38h | So this means browserd has not redrawn the bottom part yet | 17:28 |
| mgedmin | right | 17:28 |
| mgedmin | but it's not redrawing it! | 17:28 |
| mgedmin | it's waiting for me to stop panning and release the touchscreen | 17:28 |
| RST38h | probably has not been told to redraw yet, most likely to prevent excessive redrawing | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | it should draw when it's idle | 17:29 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: remember how Tear panning stutters on Maemo4? | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | so? | 17:29 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: My guess is that they are trying to avoid it by only starting redraw when you are done panning | 17:29 |
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| mgedmin | but I don't know _when_ I'm done panning, since I can't see where I'm panning to! | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | imagine you're trying to find the little 'mark as read' button between two posts | 17:30 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: But, again, /msg romaxa, if he is online he may know what is going on | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | you pan down, you see something that looks like it, you stop panning and start clicking | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | browserd redraws the area and you've no idea where you're now | 17:30 |
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| mgedmin | it wouldn't be _bad_ if that area was blank | 17:31 |
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| mgedmin | but it shows actual text that more or less matches the page you're looking at | 17:31 |
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| mgedmin | except that google reader (mobile) resized a div somewhere above and now all that nicely drawn are is invalid | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | invalid but not cleared | 17:31 |
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| greenfly | for me google reader would work ok if only the url bar wouldn't pop up every time the page refreshed | 17:33 |
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| * RST38h watches Symbian's conceptual UI demo | 17:33 | |
| greenfly | and even that would be tolerable if "mouse mode" didn't turn off every time a page refreshed | 17:33 |
| greenfly | (essentially I like to browse google reader with j and k) | 17:34 |
| javispedro | and they don't work? | 17:34 |
| RST38h | Their graphics artist has to go into a rehab or something. Yellow rubber duckies on struts are NOT healthy | 17:34 |
| greenfly | javispedro: if I turn on mouse mode they do, otherwise when you hit keys the keypresses don't go to the browser they go to the URL bar | 17:34 |
| * javispedro curses | 17:35 | |
| mgedmin | cool! | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | I didn't know there was a way to make keyboard shortcuts work | 17:35 |
| greenfly | but then google reader refreshes at least every minute | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | mouse mode, interesting | 17:35 |
| javispedro | greenfly: what happens when an text box gets focus? | 17:35 |
| greenfly | javispedro: I would imagine the key presses would go to the text box | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | does Google have an API? | 17:35 |
| javispedro | and, more important, what happens when a text box has focus and you enable mouse mode? | 17:36 |
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| mgedmin | all I want is "gimme posts", "mark as read", "like", "star", "share" | 17:36 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: i don't know, but there's an unofficial google reader app for android at least | 17:36 |
| greenfly | mgedmin: yeah, slide your finger from the left side of the screen to the screen (like a reverse of the "Back" gesture) | 17:36 |
| greenfly | but apart from these weird UI things, the full version of Google reader works fine | 17:37 |
| greenfly | and those could easily be fixed I would imagine | 17:37 |
| greenfly | ie. maintain mouse mode when a page refreshes | 17:37 |
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| aep | hm any guide how to setup scratchbox for maemo? sb-menu complains that i should run sb-menu and then goes into a loop | 17:51 |
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| RST38h | aep: Add MaemoSDK+ repo to the list of sources, install maemosdk+ using Aptitude in Ubuntu :) | 17:54 |
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| RST38h | then type maemo-sdk from command line and use menu system to install toolchain, rootstrap, etc | 17:54 |
| aep | ah it depends on debian ? didnt say that | 17:54 |
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| aep | is there an sdk for a different os then? maybe windows or mac or something | 17:56 |
| RST38h | no | 17:56 |
| aep | outch | 17:56 |
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| ali1234 | is there really any reason to put optified libraries in /opt/maemo/usr/lib rather than /opt/libfoo/lib? | 17:58 |
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| konttori | is it true that there are almost no bug reports for fremantle official platform at the moment? | 18:00 |
| ali1234 | no | 18:01 |
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| konttori | oh, am I looking at the wrong place then? | 18:01 |
| ali1234 | where are you looking? | 18:01 |
| konttori | bugs.maemo.org | 18:02 |
| konttori | if I filter with official platform and fremantle, I see 29 bugs | 18:02 |
| konttori | and they are mostly related to some documentation issues | 18:02 |
| ali1234 | i see 334 | 18:04 |
| javispedro | I see a lot, where do you choose "fremantle"? in target? | 18:04 |
| ali1234 | ah i see, yeah in target | 18:05 |
| ali1234 | and you get 29 | 18:05 |
| ali1234 | but probably the bugs just aren't labelled properly | 18:05 |
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| RST38h | konttori: What do you mean by official platform? Some examples/ | 18:05 |
| RST38h | ? | 18:05 |
| javispedro | target is very messy. | 18:06 |
| javispedro | for example the pulseaudio bug is "target ---" | 18:06 |
| konttori | RST38h this: http://pastebin.com/md48497f | 18:06 |
| RST38h | konttori: So, it is SDK, documentation, style guide, etc? | 18:07 |
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| javispedro | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=Maemo+Official+Platform&version=5.0&version=5.0-alpha&version=5.0-alpha-pre1&version=5.0-alpha-pre2&version=5.0-beta&version=5.0-beta2&version=5.0-final&version=5.0%2F(1.2009.41-10)&version=Fremantle&target_milestone=---&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteb | 18:07 |
| javispedro | oard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&va | 18:07 |
| javispedro | lue0-0-0= | 18:07 |
| javispedro | er... | 18:07 |
| javispedro | sorry. | 18:07 |
| RST38h | stoooop | 18:07 |
| pw_1234 | thats an overly specific search criteria! | 18:08 |
| pw_1234 | no wonder theres not many things | 18:08 |
| javispedro | links seem smaller in a browser :) | 18:08 |
| qwerty12 | javispedro: https://www.squarefree.com/bookmarklets/mozilla.html#shorten_bug_query =) | 18:08 |
| RST38h | konttori: Because I think we may have a misunderstanding here. Check bug #5449 or #5448 or #5329 for example | 18:08 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5449 /dev/fb0 returns invalid results from FBIO_*SCREENINFO ioctl()s | 18:08 |
| lardman | javispedro: it's the DPI you know ;) | 18:08 |
| RST38h | konttori: Do they apply to the area of your interest? | 18:09 |
| javispedro | still 366 chars after shortening | 18:10 |
| javispedro | but thanks qwerty12 | 18:10 |
| pw_1234 | wow! povbot thank you | 18:11 |
| pw_1234 | #6000 | 18:11 |
| qwerty12 | bug #6000 | 18:11 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6000 Build fails because contextproperty.h can't be found. | 18:11 |
| pw_1234 | bug #6000 | 18:11 |
| qwerty12 | javispedro: May I suggest $FAVOURITEURLSHORTENINGSERVICE? :-) | 18:11 |
| javispedro | oh, that's pretty cool. who taught povbot to do that? | 18:11 |
| pw_1234 | who is the bothandler? | 18:11 |
| javispedro | qwerty12: already done http://maemo.pastebin.com/d248d3123:) | 18:12 |
| javispedro | qwerty12: already done http://maemo.pastebin.com/d248d3123 *damn* :) | 18:12 |
| * mgedmin bows | 18:12 | |
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| qwerty12 | javispedro: hehe | 18:12 |
| pw_1234 | mgedmin did you change povbot? | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | yes | 18:13 |
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| javispedro | mgedmin: thanks! that is very useful. | 18:13 |
| pw_1234 | is it possible to remove the "bug " prefix and search just hash number ? | 18:14 |
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| pw_1234 | because i know many people forget to say bug #1234 but all use the hashtag | 18:14 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234 close-buttons on home menu are too small | 18:14 |
| qwerty12 | pw_1234: Be annoying if you are just referring to a channel | 18:14 |
| javispedro | yeah, too many false positives | 18:15 |
| pw_1234 | which channels are numeric? | 18:15 |
| pw_1234 | hash number | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | pw_1234, possible yes, but that would require hacking the source code | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | of the supybot plugin | 18:16 |
| pw_1234 | is it open source? | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | I expect people will learn to say bug #nnn | 18:16 |
| pw_1234 | the problem now is people dont learn | 18:17 |
| mgedmin | yes, http://code.google.com/p/supybot-bugzilla/ | 18:17 |
| pw_1234 | they get asked, what bug number | 18:17 |
| pw_1234 | and the reply is mostly | 18:17 |
| pw_1234 | #1234 | 18:17 |
| qwerty12 | Then you can just type bug #number. | 18:17 |
| * mgedmin doesn't care about people who don't learn, provided that the people in question aren't him | 18:17 | |
| qwerty12 | It's useful not having to search for the bug, but, come on, no need to be that lazy. | 18:18 |
| pw_1234 | i have my password as my irc nick. i am that lazy | 18:18 |
| pw_1234 | thank you though mgedmin i do really appreciate the improvement in lazyness factor | 18:19 |
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| pw_1234 | mgedmin: do you host the bot inside mozilla ? | 18:21 |
| mgedmin | http://www.4degreez.com/misc/seven_deadly_sins.html told me sloth was my deadly sin today | 18:21 |
| * mgedmin <-- no connection to mozilla | 18:21 | |
| pw_1234 | but supybot code you gave was for a mozilla plugin | 18:22 |
| mgedmin | ??? | 18:22 |
| pw_1234 | [16:16] <mgedmin> yes, http://code.google.com/p/supybot-bugzilla/ | 18:22 |
| mgedmin | it's a supybot plugin, written by people for the mozilla project, which uses bugzilla as its bug tracking system | 18:22 |
| mgedmin | just like maemo.org uses bugzilla for bug tracking | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | which makes this supybot plugin useful for us as well | 18:23 |
| pw_1234 | its a good job one of us is paying attention! | 18:23 |
| mgedmin | wait, what? you said something? sorry, I was distracted | 18:24 |
| * qwerty12 uses this opportunity to take mgedmin's N900 for fun | 18:24 | |
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| * mgedmin slaps qwerty12's thieving fingers | 18:25 | |
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| pw_1234 | how many people with n900s are there now? | 18:26 |
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| cosmo_ | _o/ | 18:27 |
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| zaheer_ | 300 + nokia + nokia subcontractors ? | 18:28 |
| javispedro | 413 | 18:28 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: you're evil, plain and simple. | 18:28 |
| * qwerty12 bows | 18:29 | |
| RST38h | are all qwerty12s evil or is it only the qwerty12_n900? | 18:29 |
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| pw_1234 | good to see and hear. when do real people get them | 18:29 |
| zaheer_ | pw_1234, pre-orders start getting them next week according to people who were told bt nokia uk | 18:30 |
| pw_1234 | nice! cant wait | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | zaheer_: I have had no email | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | (ordered through nokia.co.uk) | 18:31 |
| range | SpeedEvil: You didn't harass the people there enough. | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Perhaps. | 18:32 |
| * SpeedEvil starts making petrol bombs. | 18:32 | |
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| zaheer_ | SpeedEvil, i ordered then cancelled due to receiving one in amsterdam | 18:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I ordered on 20th oct. | 18:34 |
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| aep | http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/ says i should run af-sb-init.sh start but i get command not found | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | use final sdk | 18:38 |
| aep | and i get that from where? | 18:39 |
| aep | yeah no such script included in the sdk | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml | 18:40 |
| aep | thanks | 18:40 |
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| anvith3 | finally installed fite on my n810 and got it to work | 18:52 |
| anvith3 | its very slow though | 18:52 |
| anvith3 | takes atleast 3 seconds to read out the words | 18:53 |
| anvith3 | sorry its flite* | 18:53 |
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| aep | Stskeeps: same thing with the sdk from that link | 18:55 |
| aep | there is no such file in the tarbal | 18:55 |
| aep | s/tarbal/scratchbox where the script installed to | 18:55 |
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| javispedro | nokia-binaries... | 18:57 |
| aep | ah | 18:58 |
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| * GAN900 finds it odd that the Web .desktop actually goes to Bookmarks. . . . | 19:11 | |
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| flux | the accelerometers on n900, do they also measure rotation? | 19:16 |
| flux | or mostly just rotation :) | 19:17 |
| javispedro | no, they measure acceleration. | 19:17 |
| cosmo_ | 3d-acceleration afai | 19:17 |
| cosmo_ | k | 19:17 |
| flux | hmph, too bad, I was hoping it'd provide some hints for panoramic shoots | 19:17 |
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| Moo___ | is it possible to emulate accelerometer under x86 scratchbox? | 19:17 |
| flux | or rather, that it could be used for that purpose, not that it did that by default :) | 19:18 |
| javispedro | Moo___: yeah, but there's no "prepackaged solution" that I know of. | 19:18 |
| cosmo_ | flux: i guess you are thinking about compass | 19:18 |
| flux | hm, so does that mean they cannot be used 'as a wheel' for, say, a game? | 19:18 |
| flux | cosmo_, no, not really | 19:18 |
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| flux | cosmo_, I was thinking when taking a sequence of images, the location of the next image relative to the previous one could be put along the EXIF data | 19:18 |
| flux | (and not just location, but orientatino too - or actually mostly, because on panoramas you want to rotate camera) | 19:19 |
| Moo___ | javispedro: any pointers where to start? | 19:19 |
| cosmo_ | ok, something like a gyro sensor would do | 19:19 |
| flux | ah, I actually /lastlogged acceleration before asking that question and just now I notice that the very first message addressed my question, sigh :) | 19:20 |
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| javispedro | Moo___: read the documentation about the accelerometer API. IIRC there are two ways to read it: a /sys file and a d-bus interface. You may not simulate a /sys file trivially but if you can modify the source code point it to a different file, or, you can create the corresponding d-bus service. | 19:21 |
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| kami | hi | 19:24 |
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| greenfly | just a quick question: is there a development google voice telepathy plugin? dialcentral is nice but it'd be even nicer if it were integrated into the contact list | 19:33 |
| lardman | aaargh, a single typo | 19:33 |
| lardman | d instead of b | 19:33 |
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| * lardman wonders if 3 hours work this arvo was a good return to find a single (important) typo | 19:34 | |
| * qwerty12 does the obligatory Nelson Muntz HAHA! | 19:34 | |
| pupnik | wazd_: does that have to do with browser pausing javascript ? | 19:34 |
| greenfly | qwerty12: I looked into the xkb issue yesterday and even though there's an xkb entry that has keyboard mappings that match the n900, changing it didn't seem to affect anything. looks like maybe hildon overrides it all? not sure yet | 19:34 |
| pupnik | oh dear stuck in scrollback | 19:35 |
| wjt | greenfly: it should work as is | 19:35 |
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| wjt | oh, google voice not google talk, my mistake | 19:35 |
| wjt | not that we know of | 19:35 |
| qwerty12 | greenfly: Yeah, I also edited that rx-51 keymap to no avail. After getting frustrated, I deleted it to see if it was even being read :) | 19:35 |
| greenfly | wjt: thanks. well I'm sure it's a matter of time | 19:35 |
| pupnik | who has voice commands working yet | 19:36 |
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| Robot101 | greenfly: you could try it in any language you want that has a dbus binding | 19:36 |
| wjt | greenfly: well, it's a matter of time, and someone working on it :P | 19:36 |
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| greenfly | wjt: heh, the dialcentral guy seemed to mention working on something in a forum post | 19:36 |
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| greenfly | Robot101: I'm just trying to get Meta or Alt_L available in the terminal | 19:37 |
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| Robot101 | greenfly: I meant google voice | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | greenfly, maybe this will help a bit: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2009-October/014527.html | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | hasn't anybody ported xmodmap yet? | 19:38 |
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| greenfly | mgedmin: thanks | 19:38 |
| greenfly | Robot101: not sure I'm quite up to the task of writing the telepathy plugin | 19:38 |
| * Jaffa unmeets | 19:39 | |
| qwerty12 | ~mgedmin++ | 19:39 |
| mgedmin | nom nom nom tasty karma | 19:39 |
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| greenfly | mgedmin: might be able to make that part of the .profile or something | 19:39 |
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| mgedmin | careful, see also my next message | 19:40 |
| mgedmin | after playing with xkbcomp I discovered a strange maemo-xinput-sounds process eating 100% cpu | 19:40 |
| mgedmin | the 'xinput' bit made me think it could be related | 19:40 |
| greenfly | hmm | 19:40 |
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| greenfly | mgedmin: where are you finding default.xkb? | 19:41 |
| mgedmin | xkbcomp <source> <destination> | 19:41 |
| mgedmin | either can be a file or an X display name | 19:41 |
| greenfly | ohhhh, sorry, that makes sense | 19:41 |
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| mgedmin | actually, I've never tried xkbcomp file1 file2 or xkbcomp :1 :2 | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | and the xkb file produced is huuuge and buggy | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | i.e. cannot be fed back without manual fixes | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | xkb is a murky mess, and X.org developers are slowly working to rewrite it | 19:42 |
| Jaffa | Gaaaahhhgh. Trying to attach fscking screenshots | 19:42 |
| greenfly | all the same, that's enough hope that I'll invest some time in getting it to work | 19:43 |
| greenfly | thanks | 19:43 |
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| mgedmin | I'd like to know very much where the on-screen symbol palette is defined | 19:43 |
| greenfly | yeah, it would be really nice to just add a button or two to xterminal | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | I'm afraid it's in some closed-source nokia app or library | 19:43 |
| greenfly | then I could leave the current keyboard as is | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | maybe you can do that with gconf-editor? | 19:44 |
| greenfly | hmm | 19:44 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders if anybody on Talk watches 30 Rock. | 19:45 | |
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| mgedmin | ooh, I need to write a sharing plugin to scp an image to my web server | 19:47 |
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| javispedro | it is way too easy to go around nokia.com with MicroB and find a "XXX does not currently support the browser you're using" error message | 20:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, bugs at b.m.o MAY be forwarded. | 20:06 |
| javispedro | what's worse is that those links won't even work with any other s60 webkit browser... | 20:07 |
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| javispedro | ouch. the "add security exception" dialog is as is from desktop firefox in the sdk maemo browser | 20:07 |
| Jaffa | Yay, Hermes is in extras :) | 20:08 |
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| RST38h | congratulations | 20:08 |
| greenfly | cool | 20:09 |
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| Jaffa | The gauntlet has been run. | 20:10 |
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| * lcuk kicks aSIMULAtor and knocks her into aSIMULAtur | 20:36 | |
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| * javispedro publishes vmgl stuff http://depot.javispedro.com/vmgl/ | 20:38 | |
| lcuk | javispedro, whats that then | 20:38 |
| javispedro | a way to allow accelerated 3D on the SDK even if using a nvidia card or a vm . | 20:39 |
| lcuk | :D wicked smart | 20:39 |
| javispedro | not mine :) | 20:39 |
| javispedro | i just forward ported it to recent versions of xorg | 20:39 |
| lcuk | any chance of getting accelerometer working by default in the sdk? :D | 20:40 |
| lcuk | tho i suppose that could just be mapped fromt he normal driver interface point | 20:40 |
| lcuk | to where the nokia exposes them | 20:40 |
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| lcuk | can you symlink driver branches (assuming compatible data format) | 20:40 |
| lcuk | hey MoonTiger \o | 20:40 |
| MoonTiger | hey lcuk :) | 20:40 |
| javispedro | "symlink driver branches"? O.o | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 20:41 |
| lcuk | errr /sys/ or whatever we get accelerometer data from | 20:41 |
| javispedro | lcuk, do you read acceloremeter data from d-bus or from | 20:41 |
| javispedro | er. | 20:41 |
| javispedro | you answered me already :) | 20:41 |
| lcuk | /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord | 20:41 |
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| javispedro | na, you can't put a file there | 20:42 |
| lcuk | shame | 20:42 |
| javispedro | either patch the kernel, patch a preloaded library, or edit your binary | 20:42 |
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| javispedro | you could edit it so that when it builds under x86 it uses /home/user/.accel | 20:42 |
| lcuk | im not thinking for me | 20:42 |
| lcuk | im thinking for everything else that uses the accelerometer | 20:42 |
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| lcuk | to allow testing on laptops which support accelerometer | 20:43 |
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| javispedro | well, patching the kernel is out of the question I think. | 20:43 |
| lcuk | does that /sys/ branch exist in the sdk? | 20:43 |
| lcuk | if not, a new kernel mod could be insmodded | 20:44 |
| javispedro | it is binded to host's /sys | 20:44 |
| javispedro | i don't want to mess with i2c mods | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | it's just a matter of writing a kernel module | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | that provides that file | 20:44 |
| lcuk | "just" | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | yes, "just" | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | writing a kernel module is easy | 20:44 |
| javispedro | can you overwrite "another driver"'s /sys namespace? | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | compared with, say, packaging a library for maemo | 20:45 |
| javispedro | plainly and simply' | 20:45 |
| lcuk | ali1234, now you got me interested | 20:45 |
| lcuk | but packaging a library wasnt difficult, it was using autotools that felt like tooth extraction | 20:45 |
| lcuk | it got easy once idropped them | 20:45 |
| * RST38h moos at lcuk | 20:45 | |
| * lcuk meows back @ RST38h | 20:45 | |
| ali1234 | javispedro: you're not overwriting another driver's space because it's under /sys/class - you just need to provide a driver of that class | 20:45 |
| javispedro | ali1234: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | you just need to provide a driver which pretends to do i2c | 20:46 |
| javispedro | that's what I said I don't want to mess with i2c mods. | 20:46 |
| javispedro | ali1234: no | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | javispedro: yes | 20:46 |
| javispedro | nearly every desktop already has i2c mods loaded. | 20:46 |
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| * RST38h sadly notices that the Planet has been littered by some twitterer | 20:46 | |
| javispedro | edit it and you can fry my dvb tuner and nvidia card | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | javispedro: it doesn't matter, there's several i2c drivers, they all coexist | 20:47 |
| ali1234 | javispedro: that's only a problem if apps are hard coded to use a specific i2c bus | 20:47 |
| javispedro | but we have to get that exact same path. | 20:47 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: qgil killed it, seems. | 20:48 |
| javispedro | ali1234: exactly. they're hardcoded. | 20:48 |
| ali1234 | yes exactly. they *SHOULDN'T* be | 20:48 |
| ali1234 | you should be looking at /sys/class/i2c-adapter-*/name to determine which i2c bus to use | 20:48 |
| pupnik | how am i to understand scope and mission of planet.m.o? | 20:48 |
| javispedro | so we go back to step 1. just make them point to /home/user/.accelerometer when building under x86 | 20:49 |
| ali1234 | javispedro: no. you get people to write their accelerometer driver properly | 20:49 |
| ali1234 | javispedro: what happens if a n920 comes out, and the accelerometer is now on i2c-4? | 20:49 |
| javispedro | <lcuk> im not thinking for me | 20:49 |
| javispedro | <lcuk> im thinking for everything else that uses the accelerometer | 20:49 |
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| ali1234 | if you use sysfs properly, it isn't a problem | 20:50 |
| ali1234 | if you hardcode the path, you're screwed | 20:50 |
| javispedro | the ideal solution for me would be to add yet another layer of abstraction -- libaccelerometer | 20:50 |
| javispedro | possibly with commonly used helpers (is_device_portrait()?) | 20:50 |
| javispedro | cause, what if the n920 doesn't use i2c for the accelerometer chip? | 20:51 |
| ali1234 | libaccelerometer would still need to handle sysfs properly | 20:51 |
| ali1234 | actually an ideal solution would be to define an event device for accelerometers | 20:51 |
| lcuk | there is a d-bus already for it | 20:51 |
| ali1234 | then you can emulate them from userspace using uinput | 20:51 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers | 20:52 |
| ali1234 | but, d-bus is horrible | 20:52 |
| RST38h | javis: I still see it | 20:53 |
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| RST38h | maybe need to reload | 20:53 |
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| ali1234 | heh, turns out the kernel driver for omap-i2c is broken anyway, and names all the i2c-adapters exactly the same | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | so you can't reliably know which is which | 20:55 |
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| ali1234 | what you can do is access it through /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.3/ | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | that shouldn't ever appear on a desktop/sdk | 20:58 |
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| konttori | RST38h: sorry, I had to take care of the baby, so about https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=5449%2C5448%2C5329 - I'll get my guys to check the mime issue, looks like the accelerometer is being taken care of by riku and the bit depth issue I'll ask someone tomorrow if they could take a look at it,. | 21:01 |
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| javispedro | and pulseaudio, the pulseaudio bug! | 21:02 |
| javispedro | bug #5524 | 21:02 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 program hangs on exit when media player is playing music | 21:02 |
| javispedro | ^^ this one. | 21:02 |
| javispedro | :) | 21:03 |
| lcuk | :D haha when did marius update povbot | 21:03 |
| lcuk | bug #1 | 21:03 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it | 21:03 |
| javispedro | lol | 21:04 |
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| konttori | javispedro: oh, pulseaudio bug. now where have I heard that sentence before... | 21:04 |
| RST38h | konttori: If these are the type of bugs you are looking for, I will collect some more for you. They are usually not classified into the category you searched | 21:04 |
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| ali1234 | i like how it's "the" pulseaudio bug. think yourself lucky to have only one... | 21:05 |
| konttori | RST38h: so, they are not categorized as fremantle bug, right? | 21:05 |
| RST38h | konttori: They are Fremantle all right, but different categories | 21:05 |
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| RST38h | konttori: like Core | 21:05 |
| lcuk | there are no bugs in fremantle yet, everything has been fixed already :D | 21:05 |
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| RST38h | konttori: The Platform category you mentioned is somewhat vague, people like more concrete ones :) | 21:05 |
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| javispedro | actually, I don't even know for sure if it's a pulseaudio bug :) but hey, humans need to anthropomorphize things. :) | 21:06 |
| sijk | bug #1 is always kind of interesting: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1 | 21:06 |
| konttori | my search covered all products | 21:06 |
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| RST38h | konttori: Another thing I had in mind but did not file yet is to also handle all the hardware buttons/sensors as /dev/input events | 21:06 |
| konttori | RST38h: classification should be super category of product | 21:06 |
| RST38h | konttori: I.e. avoid dbus as much as possible, just register stuff like kickstand state, camera cover state, proximity sensor as /dev/input events | 21:07 |
| RST38h | konttori: that should not be too hard to do if they are mostly GPIOs | 21:07 |
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| ali1234 | is proximity analogue? | 21:08 |
| konttori | RST38h: that is not a bad idea at all. otoh, dbus is really not that bad for those either. | 21:09 |
| konttori | by all means, do make a bug on those. | 21:09 |
| RST38h | konttori: my concern about dbus is that 1) it is too high level for this kinda stuff and 2) takes resources | 21:09 |
| lcuk | ideally, shouldnt dbus be looking at the /dev/input .. | 21:10 |
| RST38h | konttori: i.e. it can be used but feels like overkill | 21:10 |
| lcuk | RST38h, for those apps that dont want direct banging it makes sense | 21:10 |
| VDVsx | bug #2 | 21:10 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 Static linking under SDK-PC does not work | 21:10 |
| lcuk | bug #vdvsx | 21:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk: /dev/input isn't really direct banging, it is pretty OS friendly | 21:11 |
| javispedro | depends. | 21:11 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, it's the correct way, period!! | 21:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: To make it MORE friendly, one may want to route those events to GTK events | 21:11 |
| javispedro | your framework could be already monitoring the d-bus fd. | 21:11 |
| lcuk | but does not specify events or retain status and you cannot hook things easily can you | 21:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But it is more of a "nice to have" | 21:11 |
| javispedro | s/monitoring/select'ing | 21:11 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Yea, you want to plug them into UI, you map them to GTK+ events | 21:12 |
| lcuk | ccooke, this kind of discussion is related to your area | 21:12 |
| konttori | anyhoo, we can take a look at making those more friendly. I agree that we should have at least the accelerometer as an input device. | 21:12 |
| ali1234 | dbus is totally not meant to handle things like input | 21:13 |
| RST38h | konttori: Remember saying that it may be a good idea to add surfaces of arbitrary size? | 21:13 |
| RST38h | display surfaces I mean | 21:13 |
| konttori | ali1234: some of those listed are not input (kickstand, proximity sensor) | 21:13 |
| lcuk | yes they are | 21:13 |
| ali1234 | actually they are | 21:13 |
| konttori | my point is that they are not changing values very often | 21:14 |
| ali1234 | raw value of proximity sensor = input, "user is holding phone to their face" = what dbus is for | 21:14 |
| RST38h | konttori: If I file a tracker for this, should I say "add Xv surfaces of variable size" or "implement *SETINFO ioctl()s in fb0"? | 21:14 |
| konttori | for that, I agree | 21:14 |
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| konttori | have title as the former. have the latter in the description | 21:14 |
| RST38h | konttori: Ok, so these do not need to be events, they have to provide ability to read their states though? | 21:15 |
| konttori | and do make a case why it should be done (so, an example why you need it for some app) that will help in getting it done | 21:15 |
| RST38h | ok | 21:15 |
| RST38h | Will try | 21:15 |
| konttori | related to that, we have implemented the compositor scaling already. It won't be out in sales release, but on the first update release. | 21:16 |
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| javispedro | nice :) | 21:19 |
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| lcuk | konttori, RST38h i see you are discussing Xv in amongst this - does this imply the XV yuv plane will be scaled on the dashboard? | 21:20 |
| konttori | nope. it's directly rendered and passes the compositor | 21:20 |
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| konttori | for the compositor scaling, here's an example code - feel free to comment javispedro : http://pastebin.com/m6e0617ff | 21:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | 100,00 apps in the AppStore | 21:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | At this point it's just silly. | 21:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | How many of those can one person be exposed to? | 21:21 |
| konttori | if you feel like the direction is not proper, please email me at urho.konttori@nokia.com | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, publicly indexed channel. ;) | 21:22 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, 100,000 webpages in the AppStore | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | GeneralAntilles: allegedly the average iphone user installs 9 apps per month | 21:22 |
| lcuk | at this point its just silly | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | ali1234, interesting. | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Although my anecdotal evidence doesn't bear that out. | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | nor mine | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | but that's what the pundits reckon | 21:23 |
| RST38h | konttori: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6037 | 21:23 |
| povbot | Bug 6037: Implement ability to create RGB drawing surfaces of variable size | 21:23 |
| RST38h | konttori: Does this sound like a reasonable bug tracker? | 21:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder what percentage of applications have less than 10 downloads. | 21:23 |
| lcuk | long tail gen, | 21:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really don't see the point of having that many apps | 21:24 |
| lcuk | people make them cos they are easy | 21:24 |
| RST38h | General: KILL! | 21:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | The AppStore is woefully underfeatured for discovering even a small portion of that number. | 21:24 |
| javispedro | konttori: still didn't read how clutter works so can't comment. looks sane though and seems to allow certain parts of the window not to be scaled, so I say OK. | 21:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd bet things taper off insanely fast once you get out of the top-25s. | 21:25 |
| lcuk | its as easy to make an iphone app as it is to make a webpage | 21:25 |
| lcuk | and it should be that simple for us | 21:25 |
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| lcuk | moobox | 21:25 |
| lcuk | cowbox | 21:25 |
| lcuk | horsebox | 21:25 |
| javispedro | the interesting thing of course is if it's faster than doing scaling on cpu or using opengl es from within the app. | 21:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, have you developed any iPhone applications? | 21:25 |
| pupnik | hooray to konttori | 21:26 |
| * GeneralAntilles prefers a slightly higher barrier to entry. | 21:26 | |
| lcuk | define developed gen, the majority are cookie cuts from a template | 21:26 |
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| ali1234 | GeneralAntilles: http://metrics.admob.com/ | 21:26 |
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| pupnik | respect, jah! | 21:26 |
| lcuk | there are a few exceptional apps where people put time and effort in | 21:26 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/apples_app_store_100k_apps_few_hits.php | 21:26 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: didn't they say the were counting "book" apps now? | 21:26 |
| lcuk | but once you get going you can spout out apps like you crap in the toilet | 21:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I don't want that for Maemo. | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want fewer, higher quality applications. | 21:27 |
| ali1234 | also this: http://metrics.admob.com/2009/06/may-2009-mobile-metrics-report/ | 21:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not spam. | 21:27 |
| lcuk | give everyone what they want | 21:28 |
| lcuk | why not have that many? | 21:28 |
| lcuk | if people buy em its not a prob | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | after the top 25% of apps, you're looking at 1000 users per app or less | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, because past a certain point you're looking at spam, not choice. | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's simply no way a normal person can sort through all of that noise. | 21:29 |
| javispedro | I don't mind having 100,000 (even if 10,000 are just apps that are integrated book + ebook reader). I mind them using that as an argument. | 21:29 |
| lcuk | so? you get others to do it for yu | 21:29 |
| lcuk | look at the interweb | 21:29 |
| lcuk | people like variety | 21:29 |
| lcuk | "oh there can only be 100 websites" | 21:30 |
| qwerty12_N900 | I so love this iFart app over this one | 21:30 |
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| lcuk | iFart deluxe | 21:30 |
| javispedro | the eFart is way better! | 21:30 |
| lcuk | moobox | 21:30 |
| * VDVsx codes mFart ;) | 21:31 | |
| lcuk | khertan has already written that | 21:31 |
| lcuk | his stinks tho :p | 21:31 |
| javispedro | he's going to be happy having the #1 app | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it doesn't seem to work in practice. | 21:31 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, do you think thers too much choice on the internet? | 21:32 |
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| RST38h | konttori: Ok, hw state access APIs requested here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6038 | 21:32 |
| povbot | Bug 6038: Implement common device-level interface for accessing hw sensors | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | povbot: I love you | 21:32 |
| povbot | qwerty12_N900: Error: "I" is not a valid command. | 21:32 |
| RST38h | konttori: I specifically mentioned that there are two faces to these APIs: querying current state and delivering state changes | 21:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, invalid analogy. | 21:32 |
| lcuk | its identical to iphone | 21:33 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: iPhone dev is easier (but not as easy as a webpage), but even iMoobox would have a rotating, screen orientation aware picture, some form of animation and switchable graphics etc | 21:33 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, of course instead of a static pic its a blender model | 21:33 |
| javispedro | now on bbc: "the science behind iFart apps" | 21:33 |
| lcuk | no denying that | 21:33 |
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| lcuk | but its still really simply | 21:33 |
| lcuk | simple | 21:33 |
| javispedro | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.tuaw.com/media/2009/02/frtapstuaw0210_0004.png | 21:35 |
| RST38h | lcuk,javispedro,qwerty: Ok, as we are filing platform bugs, should I file a requested for a clean way to request ownership of the hardware buttons, or is it ok the way it is? | 21:36 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: you assume that apps are loaded by browsing... they're not. They grow through word of mouth and networking | 21:36 |
| lbt | the store is just "where you go to get it" | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, not as often as you think. | 21:36 |
| lbt | having 10k apps is fine | 21:36 |
| * GeneralAntilles knows a few iPhone users. | 21:36 | |
| lcuk | mouth and fart is wrong | 21:36 |
| lbt | consider deb-a-day | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt and word-of-mouth still doesn't help the initial discovery phase. | 21:36 |
| lbt | sure there are people who browse the apps.... but not for long ;) | 21:37 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: Indifferent on the issue. I only knock out really simple GTK stuff :) | 21:37 |
| lcuk | top 25 | 21:37 |
| lcuk | just like maemo downloads | 21:37 |
| lcuk | you bet your ass they need neww servers ;) | 21:37 |
| javispedro | RST38h: and I don't know what you mean. Which hardware buttons? | 21:37 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah: "debslave" sounds like a cool new command | 21:37 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders if anybody's ever going to fix the whole "Maemo Extras" silliness. | 21:37 | |
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| RST38h | javis: volume +/-, camera | 21:38 |
| javispedro | ouch, are they used by the system in fremantle? | 21:38 |
| RST38h | General: Which one? There are many! | 21:39 |
| RST38h | javis: Yes | 21:39 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | ccamameerraa wwoouulldd bebe uusseeffuull aanndd tthhiiss NN990000 keyYbBoOaArRdD hasS fFuUcCkKeEdD uUpP | 21:39 |
| javispedro | so it's really volume+/- and no apps use it for zoom :( | 21:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, the naming one. | 21:39 |
| johnsq | Hi | 21:39 |
| RST38h | javis: Well you can take ownership of them, but it requires deep anal penetration | 21:39 |
| RST38h | javis: Almost all the way to the teeth | 21:40 |
| RST38h | General: * Can vote multiple times on the same package | 21:40 |
| javispedro | RST38h: for the sake of god then, file it. | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, that's a Packages issue, not a "Maemo Extras" issue. | 21:41 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N900: no, your keyboard is still broken. | 21:41 |
| RST38h | General: Hmm...what is the Extras issue then? | 21:41 |
| qwerty12_N900 | javispedro: Pulled out the battery; all OK now :-) | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | The naming issue. . . . | 21:41 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I think GeneralAntilles is referring to the fact it is in the default image as "Maemo Extras" rather than "maemo.org Extras" | 21:42 |
| RST38h | javis: I will probably wait for now though: too afraid to suggest some really stupid API | 21:42 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Oh that... | 21:42 |
| javispedro | RST38h: was thinking that it's going to be a hard issue. | 21:42 |
| javispedro | and also UX one. | 21:42 |
| * RST38h can't see the difference how it is called =( | 21:42 | |
| RST38h | javis: Well, Symbian somehow manages to handle it in a relatively sane way | 21:43 |
| javispedro | I might even like a "hardcoded" volume button, so I don't know what to say. | 21:43 |
| jeremiah | heh | 21:45 |
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| konttori | RST38h: I mailed myself the bugs, I'll check those out tomorrow on what we could do and who would need to do that. | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, it'd be nice if they could just call it "Extras" | 21:47 |
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| RST38h | konttori: This is not an enhancement request but you may find it delicious: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6039 | 21:50 |
| povbot | Bug 6039: Hanging application menu requires system reboot | 21:50 |
| RST38h | konttori: (it stems from that pulseaudio bug) | 21:50 |
| RST38h | Several other types of hangups are related to it (like, Phone App coming up when some other application shows its menu, etc) | 21:51 |
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| bgat | is there a downloadable QEMU image for maemo? | 21:59 |
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| Stskeeps | qemu doesn't do GL just yet.. soon | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:00 |
| bgat | ok, so if I want to run maemo "in a window" on my desktop workstation, what are my options? | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | Maemo SDK :) | 22:01 |
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| bgat | aah | 22:01 |
| bgat | d'oh! | 22:01 |
| bgat | do the instructions in Maemo5_Final_Installation work for debian lenny amd64? | 22:02 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: I just tried the sdk with vmgl :) | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | bgat: not so much for amd64 i think | 22:02 |
| bgat | darn, blocked again! | 22:03 |
| * javispedro notes clutter-0.8 is missing libgl1-dev as build-dep | 22:03 | |
| jjo | bgat: they should | 22:03 |
| javispedro | bgat: the sdk does work in amd64, but I don't know if the automated script works. the manual instructions should. | 22:04 |
| jjo | installer scripts should work also | 22:04 |
| bgat | http://danielkitta.org/howto/maemo-amd64 ? | 22:04 |
| jjo | the sb-script needs an extra parameter to force the installation of 32-bit packages | 22:04 |
| RST38h | Siebers admitted to stabbing himself so he could get out of going to work at a Colorado Blockbuster. | 22:05 |
| bgat | jjo: and that extra param is.... ? | 22:05 |
| jjo | can't remember, but it's in the --help | 22:06 |
| bgat | aah... it's -F | 22:06 |
| jjo | bgat: the link you gave, go through steps 1 & 2 and do the rest with the installers | 22:06 |
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| jjo | they work around some problems | 22:06 |
| bgat | ok | 22:07 |
| bgat | can I do the download and install first, and then reboot? | 22:07 |
| jjo | well, mainly the /opt issue and something else | 22:07 |
| jjo | bgat: the vdso has to be there for the sb to work, so sdk can't be installed before that | 22:08 |
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| bgat | aah | 22:08 |
| bgat | darn | 22:08 |
| bgat | ok, I guess I'll be rebooting in a sec! :) | 22:08 |
| RST38h | "We aren't sure why the Americans think a 5-litre V8 engine is necessary in a commuter car, but 110V is enough to power your juicer. Surely they should have gone for 500V? Or even a trillion?" | 22:08 |
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| bgat | heh, there's a section about halfway down the page for MAEMO5_Final_Installation that talks about x86-x4 debian installations! | 22:10 |
| * bgat needs to rtfm | 22:10 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, who's hating on fun? | 22:11 |
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| RST38h | General: http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49303764-5,00.htm (mildly funny) | 22:12 |
| bgat | RST38h: When I'm merging from a surface street onto a busy interstate with a short ramp, a V8 5.0L (or larger) is the only thing that keeps me from getting rear-ended during rush hour! | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | My 4-banger does me OK. ;) | 22:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | American V8s are so inefficient. <_< | 22:13 |
| bgat | GeneralAntilles: not when it's in a 3000lb Chevrolet Suburban! | 22:13 |
| derf | Yeah, really. If there's less car to move, it takes less engine to move it. | 22:13 |
| bgat | GeneralAntilles: so whose are better? give me some specs | 22:14 |
| toggles_w | i like my 5l v8... | 22:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | bgat, your Suburban weighs less than my Camry? O_o | 22:14 |
| RST38h | derf: also makes it a deathtrap though | 22:14 |
| bgat | GeneralAntilles: holdonasec, | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | bgat, I mean the consumer V8s they put in most cars. | 22:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | bgat, not American V8s in generall. | 22:15 |
| derf | RST38h: This is America. You expect to get killed on the road. | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I have a love affair with the LS7. | 22:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's unpatriotic to not die in traffic. | 22:15 |
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| bgat | GeneralAntilles: I lied. gross weight is 7200 lbs; I didn't think 3000 sounded right as soon as I pressed enter... | 22:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | bgat, yeah, my Camry is about ~3400lbs. ;) | 22:17 |
| bgat | GeneralAntilles: crap, that isn't right either. curb weight is 5474 lbs for the 2wd model; mine is 4wd, so that probably adds 1000 lbs | 22:17 |
| RST38h | Camry started at around 750kg | 22:17 |
| RST38h | So, it is >1500kg now? =) | 22:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, yes, they got bigger. | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can actually fit things in the trunk now. | 22:18 |
| bgat | of course, with 50gal of fuel in it that adds yet another 400 lbs... | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plus motorized seats, nice big radios, etc, etc | 22:18 |
| lcuk | car+1 american/european driver can easily double, if not triple the weight. | 22:18 |
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| RST38h | the trunk was about the same size in '84 model, at least in my perception | 22:18 |
| bgat | plus the wife and kids.... yea, 7200 is probably more reasonable. :) | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, passenger space has gone up significantly. | 22:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I fit 16 2x4s in my 2004. | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Couldn't do that in the 90s models. | 22:18 |
| RST38h | umgh | 22:18 |
| lcuk | you carry wood in your car on a regular basis? | 22:19 |
| lcuk | i cant remember the last time i had wood in my car | 22:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, regular enough. | 22:19 |
| bgat | lcuk: married, right? :) | 22:19 |
| lcuk | lol | 22:19 |
| lcuk | we did drive home from ikea once with a bed on the roof, and it rained and the cardboard disintigrated | 22:20 |
| RST38h | "Cat diagnosed with swine flu" (C)WashPost | 22:20 |
| bgat | I had a bundle of 1x2x8 firring strips in mine the other night, that's more wood than the vehicle has seen in decades | 22:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I like working with my hands. | 22:20 |
| lcuk | yes we know, thats why you are the principle person asking for portrait access to certain websites | 22:21 |
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| bgat | jjo: the Memo5 SDK installation instructions don't mention vdso; any chance it's optional? :) | 22:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, my name is not Faheem. | 22:22 |
| lcuk | haha good point | 22:22 |
| RST38h | Something just crossed my mind: Do we have an API to access device's IMEI? | 22:23 |
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| * SpeedEvil put 40 6' fenceposts in his nissan micra. | 22:26 | |
| * RST38h once moved a friend in one trip of honda crv | 22:27 | |
| bgat | SpeedEvil: did you bottom out the suspension in the process? besides the size, that's a lot of weight | 22:27 |
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| champus | hey fellaz | 22:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | bgat: no - it's not actually that far out of spec - vs a couple of fat people in the back. | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | bgat: It was quite low. | 22:28 |
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| bgat | wooden fence posts, or metal ones? | 22:28 |
| champus | am I allowed to host a website "ilikemaemo.com", post stuff i exeprience with maemo and use google layer ads to help me finance the webhosting? | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | bgat: wood | 22:28 |
| bgat | wow | 22:28 |
| champus | i don't exactly understand the terms of use and license | 22:28 |
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| champus | nobody in here who can tell me if this is legal or not? | 22:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | champus, shouldn't be an issue. | 22:31 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: The IMEI can be retrieved via DBus | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N900 | RST38h: dbus-send --system --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei | 22:33 |
| champus | generalantilles: hmm well can't really believe that... a blog which uses ads is a commercial website so when i post maemo i use the trademark maemo commercially, don't I? | 22:33 |
| RST38h | coool | 22:33 |
| RST38h | thanks =) | 22:33 |
| jeremiah | champus: Well, you are potentially violating copyright. | 22:34 |
| jeremiah | champus: And Nokia can send you a takedown order | 22:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, the person to contact is Quim Gil. | 22:34 |
| jeremiah | champus: But they probably won't | 22:34 |
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| jeremiah | Indeed - Quim will know | 22:34 |
| champus | jeremish: but I don't want to do this illegaly | 22:35 |
| jeremiah | champus: Post your question the way you phrased it to talk.maemo.org and I am sure Quim will answer | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, easier to email directly. | 22:35 |
| jeremiah | Quim works for Nokia and knows exactly the scoop on trademark and copyright. | 22:35 |
| champus | jeremish: i want to do this legaly, is it possible that companys (my little 1man company and nokia) do corperate in situations like this? | 22:35 |
| luke-jr | jeremiah: what copyright? | 22:35 |
| champus | ahh ok | 22:35 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Except then it is online for the next person | 22:35 |
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| luke-jr | "Maemo" is a trademark, not a copyright. | 22:35 |
| champus | so what does this mean? | 22:36 |
| champus | may i use it on a commercial website? | 22:36 |
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| jeremiah | champus: You cannot use someone else's trademark without permission | 22:36 |
| jeremiah | champus: Look on wikipedia for info on trademark | 22:37 |
| champus | ok | 22:37 |
| luke-jr | jeremiah: there is fair use, of course | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | champus, however there are certain formulas that Nokia explicitly allows. | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | champus, "x for Maemo" is one of them | 22:37 |
| champus | generalantilles: you said mailing him would be easier? do you have his mail adress? | 22:37 |
| luke-jr | "Crazy for Maemo!" | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I figure that it would be pretty difficult to confuse "http://ililkemaemo.com" with something official. | 22:38 |
| champus | generalantilles: hmm but i want to post objectively and don't want to use these phrases | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | champus, quim.gil at nokia.com | 22:38 |
| jeremiah | Oh, so you want to say: "Maemo sucks" | 22:38 |
| luke-jr | hahaha | 22:38 |
| jeremiah | In that regard, they'll sue. | 22:38 |
| champus | generalantilles: hmm.. my plan is to start the greatest maemo blog in germany and than build a community around it | 22:38 |
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| jeremiah | champus: There is a thread about this already on Talk! | 22:39 |
| jeremiah | Post your question there! | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a lot of commercial interests hoping on the bandwagon. | 22:39 |
| champus | where is it? | 22:39 |
| champus | ah | 22:39 |
| jeremiah | Quim is asking if they should start sub-forums in German | 22:39 |
| jeremiah | etc. | 22:39 |
| jeremiah | Suomi, svenska, deutsch, etc. | 22:39 |
| bgat | What, no Klingon? | 22:40 |
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| jeremiah | bgat: heh | 22:40 |
| * Stskeeps thinks you should, to avoid seperation into new communities | 22:40 | |
| luke-jr | Nihongo | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | maemo.org needs to stay together | 22:40 |
| jeremiah | And hold hands. | 22:40 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Then point the gun on its neighbours | 22:40 |
| jeremiah | I think we should have sub-forums in other languages though. | 22:40 |
| jeremiah | Doesn't hurt | 22:40 |
| jeremiah | And if it is not on talk, then others will do it anyway | 22:41 |
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| Stskeeps | i already saw the harm of smartq community escaping to their own forum instead of organising under maemo.org, heh | 22:41 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Stskeeps: But Mer does destroy devices! | 22:41 |
| qwerty12_N900 | /s | 22:42 |
| luke-jr | Nokia controls Maemo.org, so I imagine competitors would be hesitant to trust it | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N900: not anymore we do not :P | 22:42 |
| luke-jr | anyhow, we clearly need distinct forums for British English and American English. | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: tbh nokia doesn't | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | it's a PR disaster if they overreach | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, since when? | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, WE control http://maemo.org. | 22:43 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, I thought Reggie registered talk | 22:43 |
| * Jaffa unfoods. | 22:44 | |
| jeremiah | unfoods? Is that barfing? | 22:44 |
| jeremiah | Or pooping? | 22:44 |
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| jeremiah | And if you are pooping, do you really need to tell us? | 22:45 |
| jeremiah | I mean, do I really need to know that? | 22:45 |
| * jeremiah re-foods | 22:45 | |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, this is the age of microblogging. | 22:45 |
| jeremiah | heh | 22:45 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: "WE"? | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, the community. | 22:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, if random strangers don't know when you're on the can you might as well just be dead. | 22:46 |
| jeremiah | lol | 22:46 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: where are the computers? | 22:46 |
| jeremiah | luke-jr: France. | 22:46 |
| luke-jr | Nokia HQ? | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | hosting center somewhere with akamai hosting | 22:47 |
| jeremiah | That is the CDN | 22:47 |
| jeremiah | The servers are in Scandinavia somewhere . . . | 22:47 |
| jeremiah | Three guesses and the first two don't count. | 22:48 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Australia? | 22:48 |
| * jeremiah presents qwerty12_N900 with the maemo intelligence and geography award | 22:48 | |
| toggles_w | lol | 22:49 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Why, thank you, jeremiah | 22:49 |
| jeremiah | Well done young man. | 22:49 |
| jeremiah | We are all very proud of you. | 22:49 |
| * luke-jr slices qwerty12_N900 up with the maemo intelligence and geography sword. | 22:49 | |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, not behind the Nokia firewall. :) | 22:50 |
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| * qwerty12_N900 comes back as the Tentacled One and will continue to attack luke-jr for the rest of his life | 22:50 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia has indicated that we're free to move them to wherever we like if the need arises. :) | 22:50 |
| luke-jr | >_< | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | They just pay the bills. | 22:50 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: oooh, move them to my hosting biz and I'll give you a special extra-high rate ;p | 22:50 |
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| jeremiah | luke-jr: Sounds good - how many machines can we have? | 22:51 |
| *** javispedro changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | http://maemo.nokia.com | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | UX meets Code hackfest - http://tinyurl.com/ybl8ytt" | 22:51 | |
| javispedro | (no longer a "tentative" | 22:51 |
| javispedro | ) | 22:51 |
| luke-jr | jeremiah: shrug, I'll just rent them from someone else and resell them at a higher price :D | 22:51 |
| jeremiah | True entrepeneur | 22:52 |
| luke-jr | lol | 22:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Openmoko at #2 on amazon sales in PDAs! http://www.amazon.com/OpenMokoRises/dp/B002N5521W/ref=pd_ts_e_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics | 22:52 |
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| luke-jr | and the person who makes the purchasing decision gets free incentives for switching? lol | 22:52 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: that's the stupid wikireader though | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Which is annoying, in an alternate world... | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | (though the wikireader gets a lot of stuff right) | 22:53 |
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| ShadowJK | so openmoko's secret project was a wikireader? | 22:58 |
| toggles_w | plan b | 22:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: apparantly. | 22:59 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 22:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Not even full linux - may be uclinux - unsure | 23:00 |
| ShadowJK | That it runs for months at a time is awesome... | 23:00 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 23:00 |
| ShadowJK | but no editing? It's not turing^WHHGTTG-complete! | 23:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The 'subscribe to our update' service is also interesting. | 23:01 |
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| wazd_ | I'm back at last | 23:01 |
| konttori | RST38h: regarding 6039, as far as I remember, that has been fixed, but not for sales release as far as I remember. | 23:02 |
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| fiferboy | hi wazd_ | 23:02 |
| Jaffa | Gah. Git causes nothing but pain. | 23:03 |
| Jaffa | bug 6039 | 23:03 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6039 Hanging application menu requires system reboot | 23:03 |
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| wazd_ | fiferboy: heya :) | 23:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles swears off Talk for at least 24 hours. | 23:03 | |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: what brought you over the edge? | 23:04 |
| lcuk | arent you a moderator? | 23:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, a string of things. | 23:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no. | 23:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, reading about people here taking that approach I realized exactly how much it's stressing me out. ;) | 23:05 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: It's been at least 72 hours for me. A very nice 72 hours, I must say | 23:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, break time. | 23:05 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders if the Talk people get that they're driving away all of the useful folks. | 23:05 | |
| * Jaffa almost fell off the wagon today, but work intervened | 23:05 | |
| lcuk | some threads are fun | 23:06 |
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| * GeneralAntilles might need to fix it at the router. | 23:06 | |
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| lcuk | post in the "1st things you would do" thread telling people what you DID is something evil and cool ;) | 23:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, the other thing is that karma whoring just isn't effective when there's nobody around to whore to. :D | 23:07 |
| * javispedro votes for tmo civil war | 23:07 | |
| lcuk | w00t | 23:07 |
| * GeneralAntilles shoots musket balls at javispedro. | 23:07 | |
| qwerty12_N900 | Yeah: Everyone vs. javispedro | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: just don't make it more pathetic than last time someone tried.. | 23:07 |
| lcuk | which side is malcolm reynolds on? | 23:08 |
| lcuk | cos i wanna be on his team | 23:08 |
| fiferboy | I used to fire a musket... | 23:08 |
| javispedro | lcuk: he's on my side of course. but I forgot what was the war for already... :S | 23:08 |
| lcuk | isnt that always the case | 23:08 |
| Jaffa | Damnit. Someone's posted something to a Hermes thread I'm following. Will have to go into *that thread only* | 23:08 |
| lcuk | whole countries have been wiped out in world wide wtfs | 23:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, never fired black powder. Have fire a Ma Deuce, though. *g* | 23:09 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Jaffa: And suddenly find yourself wondering out of that thread? :) | 23:09 |
| * lcuk thinks jaffa secretly browses anonymously :P | 23:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, was that the itT insanity? | 23:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Didn't we have a spinoff forum for a while thanks to that? | 23:09 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yes | 23:10 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Oh yeah, penguinbait's one | 23:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right, thanks to penguinbait. | 23:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fun times. | 23:10 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Black Powder is fun in artillery. I never fired ball with the musket, though | 23:10 |
| lcuk | didnt he ummm become council member replacing you sometime after that | 23:10 |
| Jaffa | He became a council member. I've yet to see him *do* anything. | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | Err, ignore I said that. I said I wouldn't say anything or interfere with the new council. | 23:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I like to believe that VDVsx replaced me. | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | Ah, I'm having gcobb replace me then | 23:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 23:11 |
| lcuk | lol | 23:11 |
| * GeneralAntilles was just typing that. | 23:11 | |
| * realitygaps also getting a bit overwhelmed by silly t.m.o threads | 23:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | All those gaps in reality. | 23:12 |
| lcuk | post a thread "if nobody posts in this thread, i will send out an n900 to everyone tomorrow" | 23:12 |
| lcuk | you can bet your ass they would ruin it for thsemselves ;) | 23:12 |
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| Stskeeps | i want GA back in council :P | 23:13 |
| lcuk | no, he was grumpy then | 23:13 |
| lcuk | now hes the light of our lives | 23:13 |
| qwerty12_N900 | GA 2010 | 23:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles wants zerojay and sjgadsby on the council. | 23:13 | |
| lcuk | i think VDVsx is bein super active | 23:14 |
| lcuk | and texrat also | 23:14 |
| lcuk | surprisingly for a rat | 23:14 |
| qwerty12_N900 | VDVsx was awesome even before he became a Council member | 23:14 |
| Jaffa | Which is How It Should Be[TM]. | 23:14 |
| lcuk | yeah q | 23:15 |
| lcuk | hyperactive | 23:15 |
| Jaffa | Given at least two of the members put themselves forward on a "change we can believe in" and "increased transparency" ticket, they've either gone very quiet or hyperactive (making it difficult, IMHO, to separate the noise from the signal) | 23:15 |
| * Jaffa shuts himself up. | 23:15 | |
| lcuk | maybe they are changing things | 23:16 |
| javispedro | well, things are changing indeed. | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol, Jaffa | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N900 | Jaffa: Smile! http://imgur.com/yFCpG.png | 23:16 |
| lcuk | civil war, veterans vs current council | 23:17 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N900: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo | 23:17 |
| lcuk | we need qole as ref | 23:17 |
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| Jaffa | The new council is doing an excellent job... | 23:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, psh, no contest. lardman fights /dirty/. | 23:18 |
| toggles_w | qwerty12_N900: you need a charge | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | i said veterans, not ancestors ;) | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh god | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just loaded up the New Posts page by reflex. | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Definitely going to have to fix this one at the router. | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | i had it like that with slashdot and reddit for a bit | 23:18 |
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| qwerty12_N900 | toggles_w: It's doing just that; I just happened to take a screenshot when the animation was at the bottom ;) | 23:19 |
| wazd | fiferboy: around? :) | 23:19 |
| fiferboy | wazd: present | 23:19 |
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| lcuk | i think i need to reply to quim with a proposal tonight | 23:19 |
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| wazd | fiferboy: you're out of Jabber now | 23:19 |
| * lcuk was hoping to hear back about something first | 23:19 | |
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| fiferboy | wazd: connectiong... | 23:20 |
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| javispedro | just hope the N900 is released so they can finally get ahold the device, say "no mms. less mhz than the snapdragon. lame.", complain for a few months then go away :D | 23:21 |
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| realitygaps | :) what is the estimated release date currently? | 23:22 |
| javispedro | When it's done (TM) | 23:22 |
| lcuk | what is a killer app and why do people keep thinking things are it | 23:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Allegedly some people in the UK from nokia.uk got mailed release dates. | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: visicalc | 23:22 |
| * realitygaps waiting for a flash image so he can break the device :) | 23:23 | |
| lcuk | :D the oldest app i can run | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Visicalc was awesome for personal computers in the workplace. | 23:23 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, but that doesnt explain | 23:25 |
| lcuk | what dependencies do i need to include to create a killer app | 23:25 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 23:25 |
| lcuk | which repository are they on | 23:25 |
| wazd | snapdragon has like 30 minutes of work time | 23:25 |
| javispedro | (note the "lame" part is a slashdot reference) | 23:26 |
| lcuk | javispedro, thats in reference tothe device you are comparing, not the sd | 23:28 |
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| * ShadowJK obtained a tekkeon mp1550 | 23:31 | |
| ShadowJK | The nokia tip is huge. The tip gets warm. With the supplied tip, provided power to device is half of what arrives at device with a generic tip :-) | 23:32 |
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| * javispedro tries to understand the weird colors SDK issue | 23:33 | |
| javispedro | the c"orruption" is produced between the XShmGetImage call and before it's sent to libGL. | 23:34 |
| javispedro | that leaves clutter-0.8 and ... er... nobody else? as possible culprit. | 23:34 |
| lcuk | RGB BGR issue? | 23:35 |
| lcuk | the device is BGR i believe | 23:35 |
| javispedro | might be | 23:35 |
| javispedro | since whatever it is doesn't touch the green channel | 23:35 |
| lcuk | then, yeah it will be | 23:35 |
| javispedro | and only seems to happen in RGB565 pixmaps | 23:35 |
| lcuk | 16bit | 23:36 |
| javispedro | exactly. | 23:36 |
| lcuk | yeah i had same thing | 23:36 |
| lcuk | i did the yuv to rgb conversion | 23:36 |
| javispedro | now I have to find where is that happening | 23:36 |
| javispedro | and why it only happens "sometimes". | 23:36 |
| lcuk | and it looked a bit crap till i inverted the tachyon field and raised shields | 23:36 |
| javispedro | max power to the shields! | 23:36 |
| lcuk | cos some pathways in will have been fixed too soon | 23:36 |
| javispedro | engage! | 23:36 |
| lcuk | instead of a generic fix once at the warp core manifold, they decided to fix in each jerries tube they found the fluctuations in | 23:37 |
| lcuk | blame shoddy engineering ;) | 23:37 |
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| lcuk | i only used the sdk once | 23:38 |
| lcuk | i didnt actually see the bad colors issue for myself | 23:38 |
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| javispedro | nokia hosts a screenshot of it, wait a bit. | 23:39 |
| javispedro | lcuk: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Clock.png | 23:40 |
| lcuk | the menu indicator nobble has gone on my real screen | 23:41 |
| lcuk | that little hint would +1000 the intuitive interface | 23:42 |
| javispedro | I guess UX can't decided wheter to keep or remove it. | 23:42 |
| javispedro | s/decided/decide | 23:42 |
| Proteous | jerries tube? | 23:42 |
| Proteous | it's it jefferies | 23:42 |
| javispedro | but you can see the orangeness there. | 23:43 |
| * javispedro is modifiying the clutter pixmaps and clearly sees red converted to blue | 23:43 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, I'm pretty sure Jerry would disagree. | 23:43 |
| Proteous | who is jerry again? | 23:44 |
| lcuk | Proteous, the tv series is fictional | 23:44 |
| Proteous | what? lies | 23:44 |
| lcuk | the real ones on board the real enterprise are called jerries tubes | 23:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Indeed | 23:44 |
| Proteous | no no, I went back in time and killed Jerry | 23:45 |
| penguinbait | a belated bite me to all ;) | 23:45 |
| Proteous | so it was his brother jeff that got the tubes named after him | 23:45 |
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| javispedro | the pixmaps seem to be stored in RGB565 LE format | 23:50 |
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| champus | Will it be possible to run an asterisk or fax server on nokia n900 / maemo to receive faxes? | 23:52 |
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| pupnik | way too many posts on t.m.o. now | 23:54 |
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| luke-jr | champus: lol, nice joke | 23:54 |
| champus | y? | 23:55 |
| luke-jr | champus: of course not | 23:55 |
| champus | y not? | 23:55 |
| luke-jr | because N900 doesn't have a landline | 23:55 |
| champus | doesn't i have full access to the hardware? | 23:55 |
| luke-jr | duh | 23:55 |
| luke-jr | no | 23:55 |
| champus | hm... | 23:55 |
| luke-jr | N900 is closed, too | 23:55 |
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| champus | didn't ever care bout how fax work, thought it just uses this scratchy tunes to transmit data | 23:56 |
| luke-jr | but even if it were open, you need a landline or T.38 VoIP for fax | 23:56 |
| champus | hm k | 23:56 |
| luke-jr | it does | 23:56 |
| champus | ok, one more question | 23:56 |
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| luke-jr | and cell phone compression doesn't preserve it | 23:56 |
| champus | i'm going to sell my blackberry bold and get a n900 | 23:56 |
| opengeekv2 | hi everybody! | 23:56 |
| opengeekv2 | i have a question | 23:56 |
| champus | is the n900 a good smartphone for a linux geek like me? | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 23:56 |
| javispedro | lcuk: clutter_texture_set_from_yuv_data lol but seems fremantle build doesn't have it enabled. | 23:56 |
| champus | will I have the linux feeling on a good powered hardware? | 23:56 |
| realitygaps | champus: yes | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 23:57 |
| champus | hmm nice | 23:57 |
| opengeekv2 | i flashed my n800 with mer and i've seen it is not much stable | 23:57 |
| champus | uhh... ssh? | 23:57 |
| luke-jr | champus: buy me one and I'll make sure I get KDE 4.3 usable on it ;) | 23:57 |
| javispedro | opengeekv2: there is #mer too. | 23:57 |
| champus | luke-jr: what processor does the n900 use, arm? | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | champus, yes. | 23:57 |
| champus | think there is allready a port ^^ | 23:57 |
| luke-jr | champus: OMAP3 ARM, yes | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | OMAP3430 | 23:57 |
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| opengeekv2 | yes, i know | 23:57 |
| luke-jr | champus: it's not that simple | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | opengeekv2, give it another 2-3 months or so. | 23:57 |
| champus | but it can't be that hard | 23:57 |
| luke-jr | champus: I'd need to get all the closed stuff working | 23:58 |
| realitygaps | champus: with a debian chroot you can run almost anything .... | 23:58 |
| champus | some modifications for fitting the screen size | 23:58 |
| opengeekv2 | but the problem is i'm trying to reflash it with a maemo diablo image amnd d the flasher says to me usb device busy | 23:58 |
| luke-jr | champus: slonopotamus and I ported it to N810 ;) | 23:58 |
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| champus | hm | 23:58 |
| champus | i hope the n900 is as solid as my old nokia edgebox-pre-world-war-modell | 23:59 |
| luke-jr | champus: keep in mind, being a free software fanatic, my port will also aim to replace the proprietary bits with open software when possible | 23:59 |
| luke-jr | like Asterisk | 23:59 |
| champus | had to change my blackberry bold 3 times this year | 23:59 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr: The Psion's could send and receive faxes over GSM | 23:59 |
| champus | thats way to much for just wearing it in jeans | 23:59 |
| luke-jr | Jaffa: how? GSM is lossy | 23:59 |
| * realitygaps remembers the psions fondly | 23:59 | |
| Jaffa | (gah, apostrophe abuse) | 23:59 |
| luke-jr | Jaffa: or did they force analog mode on the carrier? | 23:59 |
| champus | luke-jr: hm... thought these proprietary bits are just binary drivers? | 23:59 |
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