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| wazd | Seriously, I have a cool idea to win :) | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| javispedro | well, good luck :) | 00:01 |
| wazd | I can't make it on my own :( | 00:01 |
| wazd | javispedro: wanna join? :) | 00:01 |
| javispedro | not really, too many things in my near term TODO list for now :( | 00:02 |
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| lcuk | fuck, i lost my proto sdk | 00:07 |
| lcuk | i had to do some coding middle of last week on a ropey ssh connection and it completely screwed up | 00:07 |
| lcuk | wazd, ill talk to you tomorrow if you like | 00:08 |
| lcuk | ive been sketching out ideas since yesterday about a few things | 00:08 |
| javispedro | wow. I envy you all. | 00:08 |
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| wazd | lcuk: ok | 00:09 |
| lcuk | javispedro :) your emu was mentioned more than once | 00:09 |
| lcuk | ppl had it installed \o/ | 00:10 |
| javispedro | yay :) | 00:10 |
| |KaE| | Happy with the Russian Programmer Day!!! | 00:10 |
| wazd | |KaE|: it was like yesterday :) | 00:11 |
| javispedro | ironically enough, now that the -devel version plays yoshi's island, yoshi's has become the game I play most :) | 00:11 |
| * javispedro hopes to find time to polish the fremantle gui a bit this weekend | 00:13 | |
| Stskeeps | wazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/composite.png - is opacity a good enough effect to be able to use? | 00:14 |
| |KaE| | wazd: sorry, but I was drank yesterday, I don't know | 00:14 |
| |KaE| | wazd: :-D | 00:14 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well... :) | 00:14 |
| Corsac | bwarf, $649 in us, 649€ in france | 00:18 |
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| Corsac | though I guess it's without VAT in .us | 00:18 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: how's the deadline coming btw? | 00:19 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well, working as hard as I can | 00:41 |
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| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/htc-leo-spotted-in-the-wild-sports-gargantuan-800-x-480-display/ | 00:49 |
| wazd | wohohow :) | 00:49 |
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| * SpeedEvil wishes you could get nonrectangular LCDs easily | 00:51 | |
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| Captain_Picard | yeh | 00:53 |
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| Captain_Picard | htc way to go | 00:53 |
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| Captain_Picard | 4.3"!!! | 00:53 |
| Captain_Picard | not some small 3.5" | 00:53 |
| pupnik_ | nice design wazd | 00:53 |
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| pupnik_ | htc can go die though | 00:54 |
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| Captain_Picard | i want maemo with 4.3" | 00:54 |
| Captain_Picard | maemo5 | 00:54 |
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| wazd | pupnik_: nice design of what? :) | 00:55 |
| wazd | pupnik_: HTC?) | 00:55 |
| chx | that HTC piece of shit | 00:56 |
| chx | runs W* M* | 00:56 |
| Captain_Picard | windows mobile rocks | 00:57 |
| zerojayPC | 4.3" would be nice. | 00:57 |
| zerojayPC | But I'm not exactly hurting with 3.5" either. | 00:57 |
| Captain_Picard | have you used the n900 yet? | 00:57 |
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| pupnik_ | nokia was smart to go 3.5" - it has to be phone-sized | 00:59 |
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| zerojay | No, but very soon. | 00:59 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 00:59 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: btw, I've gout an email from som desperate designer :) | 01:00 |
| pupnik_ | cheapest i found for n900 in germany was 530 euro | 01:00 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: with neo nuckname | 01:00 |
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| pupnik_ | 530 isnt bad if it really replaces standalone gps and caöera | 01:01 |
| pupnik_ | camera | 01:01 |
| mavhc | assuming you haven't already bought a camera | 01:01 |
| zerojay | Yeah, it'll be nice to carry one device instead of two. | 01:02 |
| zerojay | Put away my N810 and N95. | 01:02 |
| mavhc | 1 computer/phone and 1 spare battery | 01:02 |
| chx | yuck, almost 800 usd | 01:02 |
| zerojay | I've never carried a spare. | 01:02 |
| pupnik_ | n900 = N810 + phone + (video) camera + gps. 4 devices | 01:03 |
| chx | i dunno, really | 01:03 |
| zerojay | I used my n95 for bluetooth gps/tethering/camera. | 01:03 |
| chx | i am happy with the BT GPS receiver sitting separately in my backpack w its own battery | 01:04 |
| zerojay | Terrible battery life though. | 01:04 |
| chx | when i want to phone i want a small sleek device | 01:04 |
| chx | when i want to ssh i want a big screen and big keyboard (relatively big) | 01:04 |
| pupnik_ | i dont carry backpack to my roman-style orgies | 01:04 |
| chx | these dont fit | 01:04 |
| chx | again i dunno | 01:05 |
| pupnik_ | my guests love n810 for youtube/web, but want faster response and larger screen | 01:05 |
| chx | i do not need a smartphone of any kind at a roman style orgie | 01:05 |
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| pupnik_ | so a 770 with omap3, no gps, no phone, and 5-6" screen would fit the bill | 01:06 |
| pupnik_ | a coffee-table browser | 01:06 |
| * javispedro imagines battery life measured in minutes with a 1 Ghz cpu. | 01:07 | |
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| javispedro | dang. an engadget commenter got to that days before me :P | 01:07 |
| Maiku | hi, I've been having trouble with dhcp on my n810, wide-dhcpv6 won't start (although I'm on an ipv4 network I didn't see any other dhcp clients) | 01:08 |
| pupnik_ | javidpedro - will you give drnoksnes sdl window a hildon binding? i have to use kilÃl sometimes | 01:08 |
| javispedro | the launcher does weird things If I do | 01:08 |
| pupnik_ | ok | 01:09 |
| pupnik_ | not a prob for me! :( | 01:09 |
| pupnik_ | :) | 01:09 |
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| javispedro | as a "workaround" I mapped the swap hard button to quit if launched from gui | 01:09 |
| pupnik_ | swap hard button? | 01:09 |
| javispedro | "Swap application" front button ,or whatever is called | 01:10 |
| pupnik_ | do i need to look in con.. aahh | 01:10 |
| javispedro | either way. | 01:10 |
| javispedro | I'll probably need to rewrite the whole of video output | 01:10 |
| javispedro | and will do something similar to rst's | 01:10 |
| javispedro | "banging" omapfb directly. | 01:11 |
| pupnik_ | mode 7 stuff is amazing fast - almost as fast fps as regular | 01:11 |
| pupnik_ | wolw | 01:11 |
| pupnik_ | rst's emu? | 01:11 |
| javispedro | all sources seem to indicate that Xsp is a stub in fremantle :( | 01:11 |
| javispedro | yes | 01:11 |
| pupnik_ | yes daniel wanted to get rid of it - seems he won | 01:11 |
| javispedro | well, come to think of it. | 01:11 |
| javispedro | I don't know what to do. | 01:12 |
| javispedro | banging omapfb will get speed but will lose the "composited" goodness. | 01:12 |
| javispedro | bah, I'd need a device :P | 01:12 |
| pupnik_ | a n810? | 01:12 |
| javispedro | na, the n900, on the n810 everything seems ok (sdl_updaterect calls do not waste too much time) | 01:13 |
| javispedro | the only benefit to using omapfb directly there would be to try to do something interesting with tearsync | 01:13 |
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| javispedro | pupnik_: yoshi's island is one of the most taxing games currently. and kirby I tried with the C cpu interpreter and was dead slow (slower than 5fps; the frameskipping code can't handle that) | 01:14 |
| javispedro | (on n810, of course) | 01:14 |
| zerojay | Which Kirby? | 01:15 |
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| javispedro | super star / fun pack | 01:15 |
| javispedro | sa-1 | 01:15 |
| zerojay | Ah.. yeah. | 01:15 |
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| zerojay | Street Fighter Alpha 2 and Megaman X3 should also be on your test list. | 01:15 |
| pupnik_ | other people should test | 01:16 |
| javispedro | sa-1, which is an overclocked 65c816. so I used the same approach as the upstream snes9x and just used some macros around the CPU C interpreter (which I pulled from PocketSNES :) ) to "convert" it into a SA-1 interpreter. | 01:16 |
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| pupnik_ | ... drpocketsnes had no sa-1? | 01:17 |
| javispedro | nope | 01:17 |
| pupnik_ | nice | 01:17 |
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| javispedro | ideally I'd use the asm 65c816 interpreter for the sa-1, but that's way more work | 01:18 |
| pupnik_ | all those damn chips to emulate, trashing the cache | 01:18 |
| javispedro | not only that, | 01:18 |
| javispedro | but the sa-1 is really powerful, way greater clockspeed | 01:19 |
| javispedro | triple iirc | 01:19 |
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| pupnik_ | actually snes is kind of too heavy/slow to worry about tearsync | 01:20 |
| javispedro | probably. | 01:20 |
| * javispedro remembered he needs to write a sw 2x scaler | 01:21 | |
| javispedro | bah, firefox crashed | 01:22 |
| javispedro | going to bed then | 01:22 |
| pupnik_ | are you keeping a changelog of the stuff you do? | 01:22 |
| javispedro | gnit | 01:22 |
| pupnik_ | ok | 01:22 |
| javispedro | ah | 01:22 |
| javispedro | yes | 01:22 |
| pupnik_ | cool. cheers€a! | 01:22 |
| javispedro | see git.maemo.org and search for drnoksnes | 01:22 |
| javispedro | bye! | 01:22 |
| luke-jr | changelog = SCM | 01:22 |
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| pupnik_ | takes me about 10 tries to hilight a link in xterm | 02:04 |
| pupnik_ | i shoulÃd implement "link halos" | 02:04 |
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| b-man16 | hmm. seems too quiet :/ | 03:25 |
| pupnik | europe sleeps. USA ... | 03:28 |
| b-man16 | it's 8:29 pm here so.... | 03:30 |
| pupnik | the right time for USA to be coding for maemo after work :) | 03:33 |
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| wazd | europe never sleeps :) | 03:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | No, that's just wazd. | 03:37 |
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| MuJ | we finns function better when it's dark | 03:39 |
| MuJ | dark and wet and cold | 03:39 |
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| Macer | ooo | 04:56 |
| Macer | new episode of true blood | 04:56 |
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| Macer | blah. it kind of sucked | 05:24 |
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| neatojones | hello. Does anyone know how to fix a loose screen connector ribbon? | 05:44 |
| pupnik | replacement ribbon? | 05:48 |
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| neatojones | Any idea where to get one? | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Open 'er up and reseat it? | 05:50 |
| neatojones | I'm guessing my N810 is just permanently a gonner. | 05:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or is the ribbon itself damaged? | 05:50 |
| neatojones | I opened it up. But couldn't see any problem with it. | 05:50 |
| neatojones | didn't want to pull it off and then re-set it on, if it was only going to mess things up worse. | 05:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | The connector tends to come loose. | 05:51 |
| neatojones | the touch screen is very innacurate and only occaisionally works. | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it has to be reseated. | 05:51 |
| neatojones | yeah. | 05:51 |
| neatojones | any good way to do that? | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not usually an issue with the ribbon itself. | 05:51 |
| neatojones | figured that might be the case. | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just disconnect and reconnect | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie has done it | 05:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you want to talk to him before you try. | 05:51 |
| neatojones | does it slide back on easily if it is removed. I read in the Nokia manual that it has to be thrown away if it is pulled off. | 05:51 |
| neatojones | thanks GA | 05:52 |
| neatojones | I might try that. | 05:52 |
| zerojay | vsync tearing on N900 apparently now fixed: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=266 | 05:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm pretty sure he was paid off. | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just a Nokia shill. | 06:00 |
| zerojay | lol | 06:00 |
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| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: Aren't you on the shill payroll yet? | 06:10 |
| zerojay | It's ALL the rage. | 06:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm bribe free. | 06:10 |
| zerojay | Come be a part of the Maemo conspiracy. | 06:10 |
| zerojay | Where we keep everyone down for the man. | 06:11 |
| * zerojay sings Stonecutters song. | 06:11 | |
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| RST38h | reMoo | 06:19 |
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| ShadowJK | what was the problem with "tearsync" anyway? | 06:26 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk has tear-free liqbase on n8x0, right.. | 06:27 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Run iNES, look at some game thta does horizontal scrolling | 06:28 |
| RST38h | The "step" effect you see is the tearsync. Some people absolutely hate that. | 06:29 |
| ShadowJK | if they use sdl or regular x11 pixmaps it'll tear even on a PC.. | 06:29 |
| RST38h | you can avoid that by doublebuffering | 06:29 |
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| RST38h | or by blitting on vblanks | 06:29 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah but nobody (except lcuk) actually makes any effort to do that? | 06:30 |
| RST38h | some people do | 06:31 |
| RST38h | I do not because it will cost me framerate | 06:31 |
| ShadowJK | so I'm just a bit puzzled how people expect it to work :) | 06:31 |
| ShadowJK | or how one would fix it for apps that don't ask for it | 06:32 |
| RST38h | you have to use doubebuffer explicitely | 06:32 |
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| ShadowJK | even if you ask SDL for it, SDL doesn't do it when outputting to regular X afaik | 06:34 |
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| RST38h | not sure, I am not using sdl... | 06:35 |
| ShadowJK | what do you use? | 06:35 |
| RST38h | I use GTK+ Image widget when in windowed mode, fb0 + omapfb ioctl()s when in full screen mode | 06:37 |
| ShadowJK | yeah gtk isn't going to lift a finger for it | 06:37 |
| ShadowJK | a side effect of compositing, if used on n900, would be that, if the hw can do it, it would be easier to make regular x11 calls tearfree | 06:39 |
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| ShadowJK | those games are probably using SDL, and sdl doesn't do tearfree on X :/ | 06:41 |
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| * RST38h doubt x11 will be any faster on n900 | 06:49 | |
| ShadowJK | lol | 06:49 |
| RST38h | on n810 omapfb is significantly faster than using x11 (with gtk+ widget or direct x11 window) | 06:49 |
| ShadowJK | in the ideal case you save a memcpy() | 06:50 |
| ShadowJK | but gtk is far from ideal efficiency :) | 06:50 |
| RST38h | gtk is a pig, indeed | 06:51 |
| RST38h | unfortunately, there is no way to get xwindow from hildon application window | 06:51 |
| ShadowJK | that and application devlopers never even look at what their apps do | 06:51 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if the scrollbar in xchat is still redrawn 7 times | 06:52 | |
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| RST38h | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/09/500x_milliondollaaudio2.jpg <=== guess what is special about this | 06:54 |
| RST38h | oh shit it is in the url =( | 06:54 |
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| * ShadowJK tries to find a media player on n8x0 | 06:55 | |
| ShadowJK | builtin doesnt do flac (and ogg-support package doesnt add it) | 06:55 |
| ShadowJK | ukmp seems usable, and faster than builtin | 06:56 |
| ShadowJK | it shows it's python though :) | 06:56 |
| kulve | built-in player will do flac and ogg in n900 with ogg-support | 06:57 |
| ShadowJK | It claims I'm currently listening to: [u'029d9\u0163d... too long to type in | 06:57 |
| ShadowJK | dsp-flac on n8x0 added dsp-powered flac support to built-in | 06:59 |
| ShadowJK | but sound is barely recognizable :) | 06:59 |
| RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5359337/hitler-rants-about-ipod-touchs-missing-camera | 06:59 |
| Macer | hm | 06:59 |
| Macer | defying gravity isn't too bad | 06:59 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: What is the point in having it then? | 07:00 |
| ShadowJK | rst38h: none. | 07:00 |
| * ShadowJK uninstalled it | 07:01 | |
| RST38h | <sleep> | 07:03 |
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| ShadowJK | maybe i spoke too soon | 07:07 |
| * ShadowJK cant find any of his flac files in ukkmp | 07:08 | |
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| johnx | mornin' | 07:25 |
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| carboncopy | morning | 08:00 |
| carboncopy | afternoon - here | 08:00 |
| johnx | allo | 08:00 |
| carboncopy | hello | 08:00 |
| carboncopy | got a quick question | 08:00 |
| johnx | shoot | 08:00 |
| carboncopy | I have formatted the Internal Memory of the N810 to ext3 | 08:00 |
| carboncopy | if I want apps to be installed there | 08:01 |
| carboncopy | do I need to like symlink usr lib opt after i copied it there? | 08:01 |
| johnx | what would probably not be a good idea | 08:02 |
| johnx | the card won't be available to the OS until far into the boot process | 08:02 |
| carboncopy | :) | 08:02 |
| carboncopy | oh | 08:02 |
| carboncopy | what if i just want apps to be installed there | 08:02 |
| johnx | what you probably want to do is clone to sd | 08:02 |
| carboncopy | boot from flash/SD? | 08:02 |
| johnx | yup, boot from sd | 08:03 |
| johnx | http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 08:04 |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 08:06 |
| johnx | mornin' :) | 08:06 |
| b1ackdeath | its late at night here z_z | 08:07 |
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| johnx | ~ugt | 08:08 |
| infobot | methinks ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 08:08 |
| johnx | :) | 08:08 |
| b1ackdeath | my apologizes | 08:09 |
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| b1ackdeath | i wish my n810 was in better condition, altho my blog is still geting file downloads :) | 08:10 |
| johnx | heh. :D notthing to apologize for. I'm just a promoter of UGT ever since I found out about it | 08:11 |
| carboncopy | thanks :D i'll skip that for now | 08:11 |
| carboncopy | :D | 08:11 |
| b1ackdeath | i see | 08:11 |
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| MaceN8x0 | hm | 08:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | defying gravity is like | 08:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | lost | 08:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | where it will take 10 seasons to get to any type of point | 08:18 |
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| carboncopy | am back, another RFC | 08:31 |
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| carboncopy | why should I stick to FAT32 on my SD | 08:32 |
| Myrtti | what were you thinking instead? | 08:32 |
| Myrtti | most appliances read only fat32 | 08:32 |
| zerojay | Compatibility's sake. | 08:33 |
| carboncopy | I use Linux on my Desktop | 08:33 |
| carboncopy | so i can read ext3 no prob | 08:33 |
| carboncopy | interms of apps on N810 | 08:33 |
| zerojay | And if you're not at your desktop? | 08:33 |
| carboncopy | the FS is transparent to them is it not? since kernel handles it | 08:33 |
| carboncopy | SCP? | 08:33 |
| carboncopy | LoL | 08:33 |
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| zerojay | I wouldn't change from FAT32 unless I had a majorly important reason for it. | 08:34 |
| zerojay | Just simply because you never know when you might be stuck on some Windows machine with an emergency. | 08:34 |
| zerojay | And it's those rare times you'll be thankful. | 08:34 |
| carboncopy | oh true.. | 08:34 |
| carboncopy | it happened before, was trying to download a wifi driver for a windows machine | 08:35 |
| carboncopy | :D | 08:35 |
| carboncopy | another reason why i should keep to fat32 : i could not write to my ext3 from linux (not plugnplay) | 08:41 |
| johnx | carboncopy, works fine here | 08:43 |
| * johnx compiles h-i-m svn on his n800, canola on his wii, and watches flash videos on his Athlon64. heh. | 08:46 | |
| Meiz_n810 | johnx seems to have 3 core brain :) | 08:46 |
| Meiz_n810 | 3 tasks at the same time | 08:46 |
| johnx | or I'm working on developing ADD | 08:47 |
| johnx | watching robot chicken should help with that ... | 08:47 |
| Stskeeps | yay robot chicken | 08:51 |
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| *** Dar_AFK is now known as Dar | 09:00 | |
| MaceN8x0 | im still watching defying gravity | 09:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | good show although it is kind of slow | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | they should put up the pilot on hulu | 09:05 |
| tank-man | I spit on hulu | 09:06 |
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| Captain_Picard | no one who watches hulu are true developers | 09:09 |
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| tank-man | only americans watch hulu | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | or people with ssh | 09:11 |
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| MaceN8x0 | wtf is hulu? | 09:16 |
| tank-man | web site with flash video of tv shows | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | you don't know hulu, MaceN8x0 ? | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | hulu.com | 09:17 |
| tank-man | only for americans and those that like to break Terms of Service agreements | 09:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | no | 09:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | never used it | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | you would probably like it with all the tv you see | 09:18 |
| tank-man | I think its only re-runs of tv shows | 09:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 09:18 |
| tank-man | mythtv > hulu | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | nop, often up to date | 09:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | sounds like it would be crappy video | 09:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | plus... no need ;) | 09:19 |
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| * Meiz_n810 yawns | 09:56 | |
| Meiz_n810 | still a month until i get my touchbook :| | 09:58 |
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| johnx | ouch | 10:03 |
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| Meiz_n810 | johnx: do you know when pandora will ship, i have been kinda disappointed with it. (I almost sold my n810 before 2008 christmas to get pandora when it comes out.. o.o) | 10:09 |
| Meiz_n810 | wasn't it october? | 10:09 |
| johnx | yeah, it was supposed to be late-october 2008 :) | 10:10 |
| johnx | maybe it'll be october or november 2009 | 10:10 |
| johnx | I can't predict better than anyone else | 10:10 |
| Meiz_n810 | wow | 10:11 |
| Meiz_n810 | anyway, this is interesting year :) pandora n900 and TB | 10:11 |
| * Meiz_n810 is supposed to study how to calculate cone agreace and capacity -_- | 10:16 | |
| * Meiz_n810 is insead, using dictonary to find out that "kartio" is "cone" in english... | 10:18 | |
| Meiz_n810 | oh.. i'm sooo bored. | 10:20 |
| Meiz_n810 | spamming this channel with what i do | 10:20 |
| Meiz_n810 | sorry | 10:20 |
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| aspect | agreance? | 10:24 |
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| Meiz_n810 | area i mean | 10:27 |
| aspect | ah | 10:28 |
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| crashanddie_ | GeneralAntilles, please don't tell on me in the future | 10:47 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | I think 2010 is to be the year of small relatively open linux devices. | 10:49 |
| thresh | I think 2010 is to be the year of Linux on Desktop. | 10:49 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | Starting to come out of china, from some of hte myriad of small vendors | 10:49 |
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| crashanddie_ | SpeedEvil1, and there we have, yet another idiot with his stupid predictions | 10:51 |
| *** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil | 10:51 | |
| SpeedEvil | Perhaps. | 10:51 |
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| crashanddie_ | SpeedEvil, there's been "year of linux" memes for the past 15 years, and it never happened, people got even more excited when vista came out "Surely people will NOT put up with this", or with the eeePCs ("Oh look, people do buy linux"), but the matter of fact is: NO, the end consumer doesn't give a flying fuck about what is running on his device, he doesn't even know there's something running in there apart from the hamster (which i | 10:52 |
| crashanddie_ | s just a metaphor for the CPU) | 10:52 |
| SpeedEvil | If I'm wrong, I will buy you one shiny apple. | 10:52 |
| SpeedEvil | and yes. | 10:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I agree with that. | 10:52 |
| SpeedEvil | To be more explicit. | 10:53 |
| timeless_mbp | www.webhamster.com | 10:53 |
| SpeedEvil | It'll be the first two or 10 devices out of china that sell small volumes of relatively open linux. | 10:53 |
| SpeedEvil | It's _not_ going to be a widespread revolution. | 10:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | There certainly aren't 100m users out there for a niche open cheapish low-end featurephone. 100k - probably, if it's mostly sane. | 10:55 |
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| crashanddie_ | oh ffs I lost my oyster card | 10:57 |
| crashanddie_ | bloody fantastic | 10:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | :/ | 11:02 |
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| MaceN8x0 | damnit | 11:35 |
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| MaceN8x0 | ran out of defying gravity episodes | 11:36 |
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| mgedmin | Nokia N900 on amazon: 2.1 inches thick :-) | 11:38 |
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| MaceN8x0 | they are selling them on amazon? | 11:39 |
| mgedmin | a preorder page just appeared | 11:40 |
| mgedmin | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OB49SW | 11:40 |
| mgedmin | "Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S." :( | 11:41 |
| Corsac | mgedmin: expansys | 11:42 |
| SpeedEvil | 2.1" - that'll be the 47 day battery life version. | 11:42 |
| bilboed-pi | looks like someone mixed up inches and cms | 11:43 |
| mgedmin | perhaps that's the dimensions of the whole box | 11:44 |
| mgedmin | expansys is funny: "If you are a Lithuanian customer - please take a look at our Lithuanian website - www.expansys.lt" | 11:44 |
| mgedmin | www.expansys.lt looks like a typical-domain-squatter fake search page | 11:44 |
| * mgedmin is amazed to find Lithuania in the country dropdown for the billing/delivery address | 11:46 | |
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| mgedmin | "Expected release date 19 Oct 09" :( | 11:46 |
| Corsac | on expansys? | 11:47 |
| Corsac | couldn't find a release date | 11:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | preorder | 11:48 |
| MaceN8x0 | i learned my lesson with the touchbook i am still waiting on | 11:49 |
| Corsac | me too :p | 11:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | never going to preorder again | 11:49 |
| Corsac | but you can't really compare a startup like AI with its first product and Nokia, imho | 11:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | i suppose | 11:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | still tho | 11:49 |
| MaceN8x0 | preordering has been put on my "no" list | 11:50 |
| Corsac | I can understand that :) | 11:50 |
| MaceN8x0 | thanks to ai ;* | 11:50 |
| MaceN8x0 | ;) | 11:50 |
| Corsac | especially since the price may drop or there might be better offerings on various sites | 11:50 |
| MaceN8x0 | that also | 11:50 |
| Corsac | atm nokia.fr sells it at 650e while expansys is at 615e | 11:51 |
| MaceN8x0 | how much in $? | 11:51 |
| Corsac | nokia usa is at $650 | 11:51 |
| MaceN8x0 | seeing as the US is too arrogant to jump in on a world currency | 11:52 |
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| Corsac | 650 Euros = 950.88500 U.S. dollars | 11:52 |
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| MaceN8x0 | that is odd | 11:52 |
| MaceN8x0 | why 950 there and $650 here? | 11:52 |
| Corsac | because it's excluding tax, and because nokia does a 1to1 match apparently | 11:53 |
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| Corsac | something like that | 11:53 |
| Corsac | though it's cheaper elsewhere in .eu | 11:53 |
| MaceN8x0 | 1to1 match on currency? | 11:53 |
| MaceN8x0 | wtf? | 11:53 |
| suihkulokki | it is not only nokia, it is all electronics | 11:53 |
| MaceN8x0 | so we get a discount because our currency is doing worse than the euro? | 11:54 |
| Corsac | it's worth asking an us guy to buy it for me :) | 11:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | yeah | 11:54 |
| Corsac | though that means wireless channel 12 and 13 won't be available | 11:54 |
| MaceN8x0 | pfft | 11:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | 2 more cluttered channels | 11:55 |
| suihkulokki | the price difference comes down to different taxes and other eu shit (like the e-waste directive) and to the fact that as fragmented market eu customers are willing to pay more | 11:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | theyre all the same | 11:55 |
| Corsac | MaceN8x0: you don't get it | 11:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | ? | 11:56 |
| Corsac | when you don't control the network infrastructure, you might want to be able to connect to the 12/13 chans :) | 11:56 |
| Corsac | I had the problem with my us-thinkpad the other day | 11:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | i suppose | 11:56 |
| Corsac | the only available wireless network was on channel 12 | 11:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 11:56 |
| Corsac | I could see and connect with my n810 but not with the thinkpad | 11:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | us devices have fcc restrictions? | 11:57 |
| Corsac | yep | 11:57 |
| till- | use an usb-wifi-dongle :) | 11:57 |
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| MaceN8x0 | lame | 11:57 |
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| MaceN8x0 | honestly | 11:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | is there some fcc guy | 11:58 |
| MaceN8x0 | that goes house to house sniffing freqs? | 11:58 |
| Corsac | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#2.4.C2.A0GHz_.28802.11b.2Fg.2Fn.29 | 11:58 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 11:58 |
| till- | german amazon: 558,98 euro :) | 11:58 |
| Corsac | till-: wifi dongles just suck :) | 11:58 |
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| Corsac | MaceN8x0: they don't have to sniff freqs | 11:58 |
| till- | i know, mine broke when the notebook fall off my bed | 11:58 |
| Corsac | they just have to prevent anyone selling not compliant devices | 11:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | the lasers from space track you? | 11:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | that is impossible | 11:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | do you really think an inspector at customs | 11:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | would stop a wifi router because of fcc freq regulations? | 11:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 11:59 |
| Corsac | yes | 11:59 |
| Corsac | definitely | 11:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | seriously? | 12:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | no way | 12:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | so.... | 12:00 |
| Corsac | they wont inspect each and every box | 12:00 |
| Corsac | but random control | 12:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | if someone had a eu laptop | 12:00 |
| *** florian_kc is now known as florian | 12:00 | |
| MaceN8x0 | running adhoc on chan 12... | 12:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | ;) | 12:00 |
| Corsac | ha but personal stuff is not a problem | 12:00 |
| mgedmin | aren't most wifi frequency restrictions done in firmware/software? | 12:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | take his laptop? | 12:00 |
| Corsac | mgedmin: firmware on mine | 12:01 |
| Corsac | MaceN8x0: you won't have problem using an eu access point and an eu laptop I think | 12:01 |
| Corsac | nobody will bother you | 12:01 |
| Corsac | except you piss off someone on that freq | 12:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | like norad? | 12:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 12:01 |
| Corsac | like, if it's a military freq :p | 12:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | explaining that a 12billion$ jet crashed because of a eu wifi router | 12:02 |
| Corsac | that would be a good plan to invade europe | 12:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | i doube a wifi router has the power to jam a 20W military radio | 12:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | doubt | 12:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | even the manpacks | 12:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | not to mention the higher powered stuff | 12:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | we had 300W uhf amps on some of our vehivles | 12:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | vehicles | 12:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | 50W amplified vhf was also common... i think the fcc is full of shit heh | 12:05 |
| MaceN8x0 | nothing more than keeping freqs for bidding wars between multi-trillion dollar corperate conglomerates | 12:05 |
| SpeedEvil | A 30mW transmitter will jam a 300W transmitter - if the 30mW one is 100 times closer to the reciever | 12:06 |
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| wazd | heya everybody :) | 12:09 |
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| Stskeeps | heya wazd | 12:12 |
| Corsac | MaceN8x0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#ref_B | 12:14 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: yeah i suppose | 12:18 |
| Macer | but to get that close to a military receiver? :) | 12:18 |
| Macer | not to mention the military has a good knack for triangulation along with amazing accuracy with artilery | 12:19 |
| Macer | In the USA, 802.11b operation in the channels 12 and 13 is not strictly forbidden by the relevant regulatory authority, the FCC. | 12:21 |
| Macer | ah | 12:21 |
| Macer | so why not have the freqs on us routers? :) | 12:22 |
| Macer | is this like an lb vs kilo thing? | 12:22 |
| Macer | dare to be different? :) | 12:22 |
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| Macer | anyways. going to take a shower. i bought new razors and wow it is amazing the difference you feel when you've been using the same one for about a year because you were too lazy to go through the 30 steps at walgreens to get one | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it is :P | 12:23 |
| Macer | what a pain thives have put upon the world.. where razors are locked behind the counter and you have to call customer service and wait for someone to authorize the sale of a pack of friggin razors | 12:23 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: it was like using a crafted katana haha | 12:24 |
| Macer | i think the hair fell off before the razor even touched it because of the way it cut through the air | 12:24 |
| Macer | wow. i have never seen a summer so mild as this year | 12:25 |
| Macer | it was like living in california this summer.. temps above 80 were rare | 12:25 |
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| Macer | bye | 12:26 |
| Corsac | I don't shave | 12:26 |
| Corsac | simpler | 12:27 |
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| alterego | I go on holiday for a couple of weeks and the whole world turns inside out :) | 12:27 |
| johnx | well, you must be the center of the universe then :) | 12:29 |
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| gomiam | . | 12:32 |
| alterego | I'm at the centre of my universe :) | 12:34 |
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| gomiam | which is interesting considering you are "alterego" :P | 12:34 |
| johnx | I think he usurped the original ego :) | 12:35 |
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| alterego | I sold it for magical beans | 12:35 |
| glass_ | were they any good? | 12:36 |
| glass_ | big bangs? | 12:36 |
| alterego | The beans? No, they were just normal kidney beans, still waiting for paypal to resolve my dispute >_< | 12:36 |
| gomiam | and wait you will, since the dispute is with your alter-alter ego :) | 12:37 |
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| zaheerm | after installing maemo 5 sdk 2, it says i need to run script af-sb-init.sh start | 12:54 |
| zaheerm | but the script is not in my home directory | 12:54 |
| zaheerm | when inside the scratchbox | 12:54 |
| zaheerm | all i see are rootstrap tgz files there | 12:55 |
| adeus | it's in your PATH | 12:56 |
| adeus | so if you installed it correclty, just write that command | 12:56 |
| zaheerm | i get command not found, how can i debug this? | 12:56 |
| alterego | Have you installed the meta package maemo-sdk-dev or maemo-sdk-runtime? | 12:57 |
| zaheerm | the only package i installed was nokia-binaries | 12:57 |
| alterego | E: apt-get update && fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev | 12:58 |
| zaheerm | it says it is already the newest version | 12:58 |
| alterego | Well, you need to install at a minimum, the runtime to test applications and the dev image to buil;d them :) | 12:58 |
| alterego | Interesting. | 12:58 |
| alterego | It would be so much easier if every one used the VM images ^.^ | 12:59 |
| zaheerm | :) | 12:59 |
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| alterego | Well, generic advice, delete the target and try again :) | 13:00 |
| adeus | osso-af-sb-startup provides it | 13:00 |
| zaheerm | i just followed instructions on maemo.org | 13:00 |
| adeus | dunno what's the bundle | 13:00 |
| Khertan_telework | ouch i finally got the mail from jaffa about sponsorship | 13:01 |
| Khertan_telework | 5 day of delay | 13:01 |
| Khertan_telework | funny | 13:01 |
| zaheerm | adeus, ok so that package is not installed | 13:01 |
| alterego | I really want to go to the summit :( | 13:02 |
| zaheerm | and installing it gives me depends: holidon-initscrip[ts but it is not going to be installed | 13:02 |
| Khertan_telework | hum ... a nit that reboot many times when displaying the dark screen "battery is charging ..." probably mean that the problem isn't software :( | 13:02 |
| alterego | What charger are you using? | 13:03 |
| zaheerm | and hildon-initscripts can't be installed because theme-config has no installation candidate | 13:03 |
| alterego | You can cold charge a tablet with a USB charger, | 13:03 |
| alterego | ~can't. | 13:03 |
| infobot | Yes I can! | 13:04 |
| alterego | zaheerm, have you installed the rootstrap properly? | 13:04 |
| zaheerm | alterego, i have followed the instructions on the web | 13:04 |
| johnx | infobot, you can't cold charge a tablet with a USB charger | 13:04 |
| Khertan_telework | alterego: the nokia one | 13:05 |
| alterego | Khertan_telework: have you been having issues with battery life as of late? | 13:05 |
| johnx | Khertan_telework, not necessarily | 13:05 |
| johnx | that screen is actually displayed by X11 | 13:05 |
| johnx | so anything that would normally be causing a reboot loop, could be applying in that situation | 13:06 |
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| Khertan_telework | alterego: of course as it s reboot every times it doesn't charge | 13:06 |
| Khertan_telework | so battery life is short | 13:06 |
| alterego | I meant before this problem :) | 13:06 |
| Khertan_telework | but what is strange is that it doesn't occur everytime | 13:06 |
| Khertan_telework | alterego: before no prob | 13:06 |
| alterego | That is strange :) Well, kind of strange | 13:06 |
| alterego | Maybe the charger has broken cable. | 13:07 |
| Khertan_telework | other things ... after flashing it, i didn't see the problem for two days | 13:07 |
| Khertan_telework | then it come back | 13:07 |
| Khertan_telework | but ... hum ... i ve two charger ... | 13:07 |
| johnx | what have you installed so far? | 13:07 |
| Khertan_telework | maybe that ... | 13:07 |
| Khertan_telework | will try | 13:07 |
| Khertan_telework | johnx : pygtkeditor and python2.5 | 13:08 |
| Khertan_telework | :) | 13:08 |
| Khertan_telework | only that | 13:08 |
| Khertan_telework | and do the same things under mer | 13:08 |
| Khertan_telework | and while the nit is shutdown and charging | 13:08 |
| alterego | zaheerm: did you install it "manually" or did you use the install scripts? | 13:08 |
| Khertan_telework | (you know the false shutdown mode) | 13:08 |
| zaheerm | alterego, install scripts | 13:09 |
| alterego | Hrm | 13:09 |
| alterego | Well, I'd say try again :) | 13:09 |
| alterego | I usually do a manual installation, but then I'm pretty fickle. | 13:09 |
| alterego | I don't like the target names the script uses, so I wrote my own. | 13:10 |
| * Khertan_telework is trying on other nokia charger | 13:11 | |
| alterego | I _really_ want to go to the summit, but I can't, it's a pain in the ass. | 13:11 |
| alterego | I bet Murphy will be there and everyone will be handed free N900's and I'll miss out on it. ^.^ | 13:11 |
| johnx | I did actually break a charger once, then followed it up by buying a charger that broke a week later | 13:11 |
| Khertan_telework | i try the first charger on my phone | 13:12 |
| alterego | Nokia chargers are not exactly robust, I have several, but I leave them places so I don't move them, one in the office, one at home and one in the bag for emergencies/travel. | 13:12 |
| Khertan_telework | the nit doesn't seems to reboot anymore | 13:12 |
| alterego | I also have the USB charger. | 13:12 |
| kirma | alterego: chinese cheap clones are even less robust ;) | 13:12 |
| Khertan_telework | and my phone didn't seems to reboot with the first charger | 13:13 |
| Khertan_telework | arg ... i talk too fast | 13:13 |
| alterego | I think I might order my N900 from the US | 13:13 |
| Khertan_telework | nit just reboot | 13:13 |
| zaheerm | alterego, ok so how do i remove current installation? | 13:13 |
| alterego | The exchange rate is good. | 13:13 |
| Khertan_telework | in shutdown charging mode | 13:13 |
| Khertan_telework | :( | 13:13 |
| Khertan_telework | so this seems to be the battery | 13:13 |
| Khertan_telework | grr | 13:13 |
| alterego | zaheerm, I think you can just run the scripts again, outside of scratchbox. Otherwise, delete everything under /scratchbox/users/<USERNAME>/targets (don't quote me on that path) ;) | 13:14 |
| alterego | Khertan_telework: do you have a multimeter? | 13:14 |
| Khertan_telework | yep | 13:14 |
| alterego | What V is the battery measuring at? | 13:14 |
| Khertan_telework | good idea ... 3.7 Right ? | 13:15 |
| alterego | Yeah | 13:15 |
| alterego | It'll be significantly lower if it's screwed. | 13:15 |
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| Khertan_telework | hum ... just take a me | 13:23 |
| Khertan_telework | mesure | 13:23 |
| Khertan_telework | alterego: there seems to be a serious problem | 13:23 |
| Khertan_telework | battery output is 3.9V | 13:23 |
| johnx | it's topped up then I think | 13:24 |
| Khertan_telework | and now 4.0V | 13:24 |
| johnx | unloaded, fully charged? | 13:24 |
| Khertan_telework | uhm ... and it s look larger than before | 13:25 |
| johnx | tip: don't cold it tightly or leave it on something flammable | 13:25 |
| alterego | Oh, it might be exploding. | 13:26 |
| alterego | I'd dispose of it. | 13:26 |
| alterego | And check for shorts. | 13:26 |
| alterego | But I'm not too up on Li-Ion tech. | 13:26 |
| alterego | Make a note of the serial number/s | 13:26 |
| johnx | s/cold/hold of course ... | 13:26 |
| Khertan_telework | johnx: extracted from the nit | 13:26 |
| alterego | I think Nokia have a site that tells you if a batch is possibly faulty | 13:26 |
| Khertan_telework | johnx: not fully charged | 13:26 |
| Khertan_telework | and the back seems Domed | 13:26 |
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| alterego | That, definitely isn't good. | 13:27 |
| Khertan_telework | cambered | 13:27 |
| Khertan_telework | yep thanks | 13:27 |
| alterego | Is it hot? | 13:27 |
| Khertan_telework | no the battery is cold | 13:27 |
| Khertan_telework | thanks alterego to give me the idea to use a multimeter ... so i ve extracted the battery | 13:27 |
| alterego | Well, like I said, I'm not really qualified to tell you what to do :P | 13:27 |
| alterego | I'd ask someone that is :) | 13:28 |
| Khertan_telework | for me it s clear ... i ll not use it anymore | 13:28 |
| johnx | metal bucket | 13:28 |
| Khertan_telework | but it s just seems domed a little | 13:28 |
| Khertan_telework | and haven't an other to compare | 13:28 |
| alterego | This is an N810 right | 13:28 |
| Khertan_telework | right | 13:28 |
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| Khertan_telework | BP-4L | 13:29 |
| alterego | Which side is domed? The side with the hologram or the other side? | 13:29 |
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| Khertan_telework | the both | 13:30 |
| lbt | the N900 has an IR transmitter ... does it have a rcvr? | 13:30 |
| alterego | Yeah, definitely something wrong there. Mine is completely flat. | 13:30 |
| Khertan_telework | (made in china) | 13:30 |
| alterego | lbt: should be an IrDA port, so yes. | 13:30 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:30 |
| lbt | ah... | 13:30 |
| Khertan_telework | nokia 's batteries are made in china ? | 13:30 |
| johnx | lbt, I think not | 13:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Khertan_telework: IMO - put it somewhere where if it catches fire it won't cause damage | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_telework: hi.. | 13:31 |
| Khertan_telework | alterego: Mine is completely flat. <<< thanks | 13:31 |
| Khertan_telework | SpeedEvil: yep ... | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_telework: you made a typo in pygtkeditor depends :) | 13:31 |
| Khertan_telework | hi X-Fade | 13:31 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU | 13:31 |
| johnx | didn't see anything about receiving...or the term IRDA so I kind of assume it's not there | 13:31 |
| SpeedEvil | This is of course mechanical damage | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_telework: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/pygtkeditor/2.4.2-1/ | 13:31 |
| alterego | johnx: Oh I thought I saw that in the kernel config. Sorry, I'm probably wrong ;) | 13:31 |
| lbt | hmm, would be interesting... | 13:32 |
| johnx | alterego, nope, you'd be right :) | 13:32 |
| johnx | didn't look at the kernel | 13:32 |
| johnx | awesome! | 13:32 |
| alterego | :) | 13:32 |
| johnx | I do love the IR | 13:32 |
| johnx | means we can set it by the TV and use a nice remote with it | 13:32 |
| lbt | what hardware spec - can you tell | 13:32 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_telework: pythonh? :) | 13:32 |
| Khertan_telework | lol thanks x-fade | 13:32 |
| alterego | I dunno, I'm not really interested in the IR, unless I can use it with my SeXBox | 13:32 |
| johnx | or let it track with IR lights like a wiimote :> | 13:32 |
| lbt | can't track | 13:32 |
| lbt | that needs a camers | 13:33 |
| Khertan_telework | but can't fix it right now ... source is in internal memory ... and has you can read it some line before ... my nit battery is dying | 13:33 |
| alterego | We have two cameras! :) | 13:33 |
| Khertan_telework | SpeedEvil: ouch ! | 13:33 |
| zerojay | wjt: Don't know if you saw, but telepathy-butterfly adds audio/video calling for MSN. Hmmmm.... ;) | 13:33 |
| johnx | lbt, ah, right. wasn't thinking clearly | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Khertan_telework: yeah - it shows how much energy is in them | 13:33 |
| wjt | zerojay: are you thinking what i'm thinking? :) | 13:33 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_telework: as long as you know that there is a problem ;) | 13:33 |
| lbt | alterego: can't track IR using the irDA... that needs a camera | 13:33 |
| Khertan_telework | yep thanks | 13:33 |
| alterego | lbt, I know, and the N900 has two cameras :P | 13:34 |
| alterego | Anyhow, you can pair a wiimote with the N900 and use that. | 13:34 |
| zerojay | wjt: We're going to go and take over the world tonight, Pinky? | 13:34 |
| johnx | alterego, wiimote needs two IR sources, so looks like two n900s :) | 13:34 |
| johnx | but N900s tracking *each other* is kind of cool | 13:34 |
| johnx | laser tag anyone? :D | 13:34 |
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| alterego | A Wiimote and a sensor bar. | 13:35 |
| alterego | It's only interfacing with the N900, which could be plugged into your TV like a console and used to play some game. | 13:36 |
| Khertan_telework | i didn't understand how a battery can output 4V when she is constructed to output 3.7V | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Khertan_telework: it's not | 13:36 |
| johnx | yup, and I have this really nice battery powered "sensor" bar | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Khertan_telework: the operating range of lithium-ion is from 3-4.2V | 13:36 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_telework: 3.7v is nominal. | 13:36 |
| johnx | actually works better than nintendo's | 13:36 |
| johnx | probably uses brighter LEDs | 13:36 |
| alterego | Cool | 13:36 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_telework: 4.2v when full. | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe a little under 3 in some circumstances | 13:36 |
| johnx | but if you had two N900s you *could* use their IR LEDs to act as a "sensor" "bar" | 13:37 |
| Khertan_telework | hum ... ok | 13:37 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: Well, I don't think Nokia would allow a device to go under 3.6v or something like that. | 13:37 |
| alterego | I ca'm finding it hard to justify getting one N900, let alone two. | 13:37 |
| alterego | I will have an N900, I will buy it, but it's hard pursuading myself to spend 500 pounds on another gadget :/ | 13:38 |
| alterego | Even if it is the most amazing peice of kit around. | 13:38 |
| johnx | yeah | 13:38 |
| johnx | it'll be a while after launch til I get mine | 13:38 |
| * ShadowJK spent 400 on new phone a couple of months ago :( | 13:39 | |
| alterego | I love my N96+N810 | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | X-Fade: 3.6 has about 15% of the energy left till it reaches the normal threshold of 3V or so | 13:39 |
| alterego | But there are things that the N810 doesn't do that are stopping my from writing the applications I want to write, the N900 has these facilities. | 13:39 |
| zerojay | I'm very looking forward to dumping my N95 + N810 for an N900. | 13:39 |
| johnx | I think my n800 will still find plenty of purpose | 13:40 |
| johnx | maybe for in car audio/navigation | 13:40 |
| alterego | I gave my N800 to my brother when I got the N810 | 13:40 |
| alterego | He loves it, like I love my N810. | 13:40 |
| alterego | zerojay, I am also, it's the ultimate in convergence device for me ;) | 13:40 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: yes, but the drop off is quite steep and with temperature changes you risk not being able to boot anymore to start the charge. | 13:41 |
| ShadowJK | speedevil: NITs shutdown around 3.5 actually :) | 13:41 |
| alterego | Is there any reason I shouldn't order an N900 fromn the states? | 13:42 |
| alterego | Rather than getting one from the UK? | 13:42 |
| zaheerm | warranty? | 13:42 |
| johnx | alterego, I don't know what they'll do in terms of WLAN channels | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - the amount of time you have after 3.6 goes down _sharply_ with slightly older batteries. | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: so shutting off earlier makes some sense. | 13:43 |
| alterego | Hrm | 13:43 |
| * alterego sighs | 13:43 | |
| johnx | and I assume you're ok with US qwerty? | 13:43 |
| zaheerm | also getting one from lhr t5 would work out cheaper than getting one from usa, right? | 13:43 |
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| ShadowJK | if you're crazy you can probably run down to 2.5V (but that's too low for n8x0, no boost converters except for usb otg) | 13:43 |
| alterego | It's 140 pounds more though, | 13:43 |
| Khertan_telework | johnx i ll got mine only if i can get it by a developper program at a lower price | 13:43 |
| zaheerm | is it that much more? | 13:43 |
| alterego | It is at the current exchange rate. | 13:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: after 3 you have _very_ little energy though - 1% - maybe less | 13:44 |
| johnx | Khertan_telework, might be the same for me :/ | 13:44 |
| johnx | if I can't get it with a dev program rebate it'll be quite a while ... | 13:44 |
| Khertan_telework | or maybe one year after if price drop down | 13:44 |
| crashanddie | oh come on, don't tell me you can't afford to spend 500 quid on a phone... | 13:44 |
| Khertan_telework | but i can't really put more than 200 Euros in a gadget | 13:45 |
| Khertan_telework | crashanddie: i can't | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | just eat pasta for a month | 13:45 |
| zaheerm | also did anyone figure out whether n900 has usb otg like n810? | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | don't buy clothes | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | work more | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | show your dedication | 13:45 |
| johnx | crashanddie, I can't afford to spend 500 quid on a non-necessary item right now, and I do eat an awful lot of pasta | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | johnx: out of a job? | 13:45 |
| johnx | crashanddie, so you're picking it up at launch? | 13:45 |
| crashanddie | johnx: trying to even before that ;) | 13:46 |
| johnx | nah, just not getting paid all that much | 13:46 |
| alterego | zaheerm: it does, there's a whole thread on maemo talk. | 13:46 |
| alterego | About the hardware. | 13:46 |
| Khertan_telework | crashanddie: working more didn't give you more money | 13:46 |
| Khertan_telework | just working more | 13:46 |
| Khertan_telework | :) | 13:46 |
| johnx | crashanddie, and I have my wife and mine medical stuff to cover | 13:46 |
| Khertan_telework | i live in france :) | 13:46 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: in the correct industry, working more does give you more $$$ ;) | 13:46 |
| ShadowJK | speedevil: my old n800 battery goes from 3.8V idle to 3.6V streaming music ;) | 13:46 |
| alterego | 500 pounds is a lot of money, I don't care who you are. | 13:46 |
| alterego | That's a months living expenses for me. | 13:47 |
| alterego | More than infact. | 13:47 |
| ShadowJK | waiting until it's 3.6 idle and then launching the media player doesn't even give you low battery warning :) | 13:47 |
| Khertan_telework | i can bought it if i want but it s clearly not my priority ... and clearly not the one of my wife | 13:47 |
| Khertan_telework | what 's wife wants, god wants ! | 13:47 |
| alterego | Khertan_telework: exactly, you're probably in the same mindset as I am about it ;) | 13:47 |
| alterego | My gf is always complaining about me and my gadgets ^.^ | 13:48 |
| johnx | crashanddie, heh, ironically, my wife would be fine with me getting it, but she's kind of an optimist when it comes to our budget ... | 13:48 |
| alterego | OTOH, an N900 would replace two of my gadgets, so it should be a win ;) | 13:48 |
| crashanddie | heh | 13:48 |
| crashanddie | living alone -- much more bang for the bukc | 13:48 |
| crashanddie | buck | 13:48 |
| Khertan_telework | i m currently planning to make a bathroom at the upstair | 13:48 |
| Khertan_telework | so ... it s a lot of money | 13:49 |
| johnx | and yet not as much bang for the ... nevermind :) | 13:49 |
| alterego | crashanddie: sure, but you pay twice as much bills+rent :P | 13:49 |
| alterego | Hah | 13:49 |
| Khertan_telework | crashanddie: yeah ... i understand now ... you are alone ... this explain everythings ... | 13:49 |
| crashanddie | alterego: I really don't care about that... | 13:49 |
| crashanddie | alterego: I can afford it, you guys are not going to give me grief for that ;) | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: see http://melbourne.gumtree.com.au/c-Unit-House-Real-Estate-flat-share-house-share-looking-for-some1-to-share-my-bed-2-get-cheaper-rent-and-save-W0QQAdIdZ140320307 | 13:49 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: lol | 13:50 |
| crashanddie | I said I lived alone, not that I *was* alone | 13:50 |
| crashanddie | small difference in words, huge difference in actions | 13:50 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: t'as quel age deja/ | 13:51 |
| crashanddie | ? | 13:51 |
| alterego | Pahahah | 13:51 |
| zaheerm | alterego, after adding sales tax for california, device costs 712.28 usd works out about 432 gbp | 13:51 |
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| ShadowJK | what's the price in UK? | 13:51 |
| alterego | I've been using the Tritanium theme on my N810 the past couple of days, I like the charging indicator. | 13:51 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: £499 | 13:52 |
| alterego | Sorry Khertan_telework | 13:52 |
| crashanddie | zaheerm: yeah, but you'll have to pay import tax probably | 13:52 |
| mojocafe | hi everyone. i just downloaded the vmware with the maemo sdk inside - does anyone of you can tell me where a simple "hello world" tutorial is ? for maemo4 please not the 5th version | 13:52 |
| ShadowJK | so add 15% VAT to 432? | 13:52 |
| crashanddie | is it only 15%? | 13:52 |
| zaheerm | crashanddie, yah just thought i'd let alterego that its prob better to buy from here | 13:52 |
| alterego | Yeah, I will, because I'm like that :P | 13:53 |
| crashanddie | ShadowJK: works up around £495 off the top of my head | 13:53 |
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| crashanddie | so the ticket to the US really kinda shoots the idea down :P | 13:53 |
| johnx | mojocafe, maemo 4 is called diablo. if you search with "maemo diablo hello world" you should get some results | 13:53 |
| Khertan_telework | crashanddie: 27 :) | 13:53 |
| crashanddie | k | 13:53 |
| alterego | It's a bit annoying though, because we've heard absolutely nothing about any device programme, so what if we all rush out and buy one, then they announce it. | 13:53 |
| zaheerm | i fly thru lhr t5 on 17/10, hopefully it is out by then so i can buy from airport nokia store | 13:53 |
| mojocafe | johnx: thanks. | 13:53 |
| crashanddie | alterego: my expectation is there won't be one | 13:54 |
| ShadowJK | iirc 15% when they lowered it to EU minimum, might have gone up since | 13:54 |
| zaheerm | there is a device program qgil said on ml | 13:54 |
| mojocafe | lol... i just search for "diablo hell world" | 13:54 |
| mojocafe | :D | 13:54 |
| alterego | crashanddie: the general consensus was supposed to be, that stage 4/5 have the final dev programme. | 13:54 |
| crashanddie | that's the general consensus, I gave my opinion | 13:54 |
| johnx | alterego, then they can hand out devices to devs who don't have the money, and they win :) | 13:54 |
| zerojay | zaheerm: Should be announced around Maemo Summit. | 13:54 |
| alterego | But this close to the release, what do they expect us devs to do? | 13:55 |
| crashanddie | johnx: already been doing that | 13:55 |
| ShadowJK | if you order from US via usps there's a risk you'll have to pay VAT in uk. if they ship with ups,dhl,fedex, youll almost certainly need to pay vat | 13:55 |
| alterego | There are going to be a lot of users having these devices that wont get commmunity support, because none of the community own one :) | 13:55 |
| johnx | crashanddie, right, but if they let the early adopters spend money first, then offer a dev program for the holdouts | 13:55 |
| johnx | they make their money go farther | 13:55 |
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| zaheerm | wonder if upstream library devs would qualify as well as app writers | 13:56 |
| alterego | zaheerm: package maintainers are just as important as app developers, | 13:56 |
| alterego | IMO ;) | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: And a fee on top for DHL/fedex/... to kindly pay this fee for you | 13:57 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah :) | 13:57 |
| mojocafe | i am on this page - http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial/ -.... where do i put the code in??? i am a totall noob with *nix/hildon scripting.... | 13:57 |
| crashanddie | johnx: maybe | 13:57 |
| crashanddie | johnx: however it would be pretty unfair to the early adopters | 13:57 |
| alterego | Grr, I'm so sad I can't go to the summit. | 13:57 |
| johnx | just throwing out the pessimist's opinion | 13:58 |
| * alterego sulks. | 13:58 | |
| crashanddie | johnx: the devs who need one already got one, on a lending basis, but still | 13:58 |
| johnx | alterego, might be joining you in non-summitness | 13:58 |
| ShadowJK | I think nokia will have problems producing enough devices to meet demand for the next few months | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | I hope so. | 13:58 |
| ShadowJK | you hope so? | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes. | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | It'd mean that they've underestimated the market, and there is a potential for price cuts as volume kicks in more. | 13:59 |
| alterego | Yeah | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | a greater potential | 13:59 |
| alterego | Though when have Nokia ever adjusted their prices from demand :P | 13:59 |
| ShadowJK | alterego: when nobody was excited about n97, they cut :P | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | If they've budgeted for making 10K - if they turn up with orders for 100K - they can probably tweak | 14:00 |
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| Khertan_telework | ouch the price of the battery BP-4L 45 Euros plus 7.5Euro for delivery | 14:01 |
| ShadowJK | they're 25-ish from the right places (original, too) | 14:02 |
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| alterego | Heh, Dell want me to pay 100 GBP for a replacement abttery for my XPS | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | At least secondary production of laptop batteries seems to have kicked in somewhat. | 14:03 |
| crashanddie | Nokia has a habit of underestimating the demand and traction of their n-series products | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | A new battery for my older thinkpad is maybe half retail | 14:03 |
| alterego | I wouldn't mind, but the batter is deffective. | 14:03 |
| alterego | But my laptop is out of warrenty. | 14:03 |
| crashanddie | they're surprised every single time by the demand | 14:03 |
| zerojay | Not like this though. | 14:04 |
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| Khertan_telework | hum ... where is the right place ? | 14:04 |
| mojocafe | can anyone help me how to make first steps in vmware to develop maemo apps ? | 14:04 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: just get the Nokia one | 14:04 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: i bought one from ebay for a few quid, got it, and it holds the charge for maybe 2 or 3 hours. Got a new one from Nokia, for 25 quid or something, and works fine (10 hours of use), it failed after a few months, and got it replaced for free | 14:05 |
| ShadowJK | they're about half price without retail packaging :) | 14:06 |
| Khertan_telework | for 25 quid or something ;;;; here it s 45 | 14:06 |
| Khertan_telework | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWq6rWzChw | 14:06 |
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| crashanddie | buying stuff from youtube? | 14:07 |
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| zaheerm | alterego, weird 2nd time round, it worked :) | 14:11 |
| zaheerm | ouch or so i thought | 14:12 |
| zaheerm | seems it exists for FREMANTLE_ARMEL | 14:12 |
| zaheerm | but not for FREMANTLE_X86 | 14:13 |
| zaheerm | aah shit i am stupid | 14:14 |
| wazd | so | 14:14 |
| wazd | Any desperados to participate in Push with me? :D | 14:14 |
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| Stskeeps | what are you planning? :P | 14:16 |
| alterego | wazd: details? | 14:16 |
| wazd | I have a really nice idea :) | 14:16 |
| SpeedEvil | does it involve cheese? | 14:16 |
| alterego | wazd: I'd like to :) | 14:17 |
| * RichiH_aussie is on the road so forgive me for not googling extensively and simply asking (time is spare-ish): is there any GPS tracking application for the n810? i.e. i want to log places/routes | 14:17 | |
| wazd | no gadgets from 80's involved :D | 14:17 |
| RichiH_aussie | thanks :) | 14:17 |
| alterego | Hahah | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH_aussie: maemo mapper | 14:17 |
| RichiH_aussie | thansk! | 14:17 |
| wazd | and btw it would be a good opportunity to show liqbase as something realy useful at last :D | 14:18 |
| RichiH_aussie | also, can i download maps for the n810 on a normal computer & then copy them via USB? | 14:18 |
| RichiH_aussie | downloading does not work | 14:18 |
| wazd | along with GSoC project :) | 14:18 |
| alterego | Nice | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH_aussie: possibly, search talk.maemo.org for that | 14:18 |
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| RichiH_aussie | kk | 14:18 |
| wazd | alterego: do you have any coding skills? :) | 14:18 |
| lcuk | liqbase has always been useful you cheeky sob :P | 14:18 |
| Stskeeps | RichiH_aussie: winmapper or search for maemo mapper | 14:19 |
| wazd | lcuk: yeah, as a remote controller :D | 14:19 |
| RichiH_aussie | second to last question: can i download apps on a normal laptop & then copy them over via usb? | 14:19 |
| alterego | wazd: Yes, I'm a software engineer :) | 14:19 |
| wazd | lcuk: no, seriously, I need you :) | 14:19 |
| wazd | alterego: ok, great! :) | 14:19 |
| alterego | I spend most of my time coding in C, C#, Ruby & Python | 14:19 |
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| alterego | I'm also good witGNU/Linux and love Debian ;) | 14:20 |
| wazd | join #pushn900 to discuss the idea, maybe it's stupid :) | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | wazd whats your twitter | 15:04 |
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| wazd | lcuk: well, andrewzhilin but I'm not gonna use I think :) | 15:07 |
| lcuk | not gonna use what? | 15:07 |
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| lcuk | ahhh i see | 15:09 |
| lcuk | not a twitterer then - you should link irc with it | 15:09 |
| lcuk | and just start blogging your ideas | 15:09 |
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| RST38h | heya, lcuk, wazd | 15:10 |
| lcuk | hiya RST38h ! | 15:10 |
| AndrewFBlak | Khertan_telework, you around? | 15:11 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i saw my calendar and graffiti liqflow on a big display finally. i know its gonna work (there might even be video out soon showing it :D) | 15:11 |
| lcuk | tho somehow a 20foot calendar was a bit scary! | 15:11 |
| Khertan_telework | AndrewFBlak: yes i m here | 15:11 |
| AndrewFBlak | I'm trying to build my deb on tablet using py2deb but its not pulling all the files from my src folder and putting them in the tar file | 15:11 |
| Khertan_telework | AndrewFBlak: i didn't receive your email ... but this morning i got the one from jaffa about sponsorship which was sent 5 days ago | 15:12 |
| Khertan_telework | but its not pulling all the files from my src folder and putting them in the tar file < normal | 15:12 |
| lcuk | lol Khertan_telework but but but but but | 15:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: On TV you mean? | 15:12 |
| Khertan_telework | it s depends on your py "make" file | 15:12 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, no, on projector in a couple of presentations | 15:13 |
| RST38h | Ah | 15:13 |
| AndrewFBlak | so I got something wrong in my make file then | 15:13 |
| Khertan_telework | lcuk: my nit battery is doing strange things ... and push the cover this morning :) | 15:13 |
| * RST38h wonders how lcuk will draw on a projected display =) | 15:13 | |
| lcuk | liqflow small and big http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyMRTNPCVQM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 | 15:13 |
| Khertan_telework | i need to change it ... | 15:13 |
| lcuk | the calendar was that big | 15:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Is it the same flow going through all three tablets??? | 15:13 |
| lcuk | RST38h, there was a laser spraycan at odz actually that was cool | 15:14 |
| Khertan_telework | arg the n810 can't work only on charger without any battery ? | 15:14 |
| lcuk | the small one is yeah | 15:14 |
| lcuk | the big one isnt | 15:14 |
| RST38h | cooool | 15:14 |
| RST38h | So, they are talking to each other over the network to maintain the same flow? | 15:14 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya | 15:14 |
| lcuk | not yet | 15:14 |
| vesa | umm, is the real n900 device 65k color screen? =O | 15:14 |
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| lcuk | and there is no real way to get accurate positioning yet | 15:15 |
| lcuk | i have an idea involving hundreds of tablets | 15:15 |
| lcuk | but only if i know where people are sat | 15:15 |
| * lcuk is thinking of using seating plan | 15:15 | |
| lcuk | and having tablet users enter the seat # into app | 15:15 |
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| RST38h | you will never get this precise positioning, so it may make sense to just fix positions | 15:15 |
| lcuk | and then taking picutre from above | 15:15 |
| lcuk | as all tablets are showing messages and flowing stuff | 15:15 |
| lcuk | the gas fabriteque thing at the summit would be PERFECT for it too | 15:16 |
| Khertan_telework | AndrewFBlak: http://wiki.maemo.org/Py2deb <<< look at the #Thanks to DareTheHair from talk.maemo.org for this snippet that recursively builds the file list | 15:16 |
| lcuk | its a big round room with lots of height | 15:16 |
| lcuk | just need a vid cam from above | 15:16 |
| lcuk | "we are maemo" scrolling 80s style (H) | 15:17 |
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| AndrewFBlak | Khertan_telework, is there any parts I need to change to that section | 15:17 |
| vesa | there is no official specs about the bit-depth of the n900 screen? | 15:18 |
| * RST38h got the DHL missed shipment delivery slip | 15:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | vesa: why does it matter? | 15:18 |
| timeless_mbp | what if we can only render 62197 colors? :) | 15:18 |
| lcuk | vesa, i know from experience it is technically capable of displaying full color 16.7m colors, BUT that is not to say the software is sending that bitdepth | 15:18 |
| vesa | well, if one makes graphics for applications it'd be nice to know | 15:18 |
| RST38h | vesa: Apparently 65536 | 15:18 |
| lcuk | and i dont know which its using | 15:18 |
| RST38h | vesa: Or my stuff would not work on them | 15:19 |
| vesa | atleast the protos need dithering | 15:19 |
| lcuk | vesa, yuv is not dithered and fullcolor | 15:19 |
| AndrewFBlak | think I found the problem | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Andrew: BTW, could you fix the Minimalist theme so that it always goes to the first unread message in a thread? | 15:20 |
| vesa | ok. thanks for the replies. | 15:20 |
| RST38h | Andrew: Otherwise 100kB+ needed to load a t.m.o page becomes 200kB+ | 15:20 |
| AndrewFBlak | RST38h, it should go to first unread of you click number | 15:21 |
| RST38h | Andrew: Could you do the same for the thread topic? | 15:22 |
| RST38h | Andrew: Mainly asking because the other themes do that, and I have also seen other people complain | 15:22 |
| AndrewFBlak | I'll check with Reggie when I set it up he wanted topic to go ot first post | 15:23 |
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| * RST38h missed package by 20 minutes yesterday. NOTFAIR | 15:24 | |
| RST38h | Andrew: please do | 15:24 |
| AndrewFBlak | also just checked other themes still go to first post for topi | 15:24 |
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| RST38h | Andrew: wait, I think I know where discrepancy crawls in... | 15:25 |
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| Khertan_telework | AndrewFBlak: normally no | 15:25 |
| AndrewFBlak | Khertan_telework, I think I got a probelm with the tabs in that section | 15:26 |
| Khertan_telework | arf ... python / tabulation / space ... still the same problem ! | 15:26 |
| Khertan_telework | this is why the last version of pygtkeditor include a 'Replace all tabs by space !' :) | 15:27 |
| RST38h | Andrew: It is possible that only subscribed threads do that...Hmmm | 15:27 |
| AndrewFBlak | I take it pythons doesn't like tabs lol | 15:28 |
| RST38h | Andrew: Still, going to the first unread post seems to be a logical thing to do | 15:28 |
| AndrewFBlak | RST38h, only subscribed threads go to last on topic? | 15:28 |
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| AndrewFBlak | RST38h, We have been trying to keep a standard setup on all themes so if others go to first post on topic minimalist will do the same or people will who want to see first post will have to load 2 pagse all the time right now if you don't wnt to load but on page and see last post click numbers not topic | 15:29 |
| RST38h | Andrew: Yes, but if I have never read a thread, why would I have to click twice to see the first post? | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Andrew: And if I have been reading this thread, how likely it is I want to go straight to the start? | 15:31 |
| AndrewFBlak | RST38h, You don't have to click twice just click number beside topic | 15:33 |
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| RST38h | Andrew: But unless you tell me, how would I know I have to click the damn number: :) | 15:33 |
| RST38h | s/:/? | 15:33 |
| AndrewFBlak | Khertan_telework, I'm getting an error now telling me in line f for in files: NameError: name 'files' is not defined | 15:34 |
| AndrewFBlak | RST38h, its the same way on all other themes at t.m.o | 15:34 |
| Khertan_telework | pastebin your script | 15:35 |
| Khertan_telework | i ll take a look at it | 15:35 |
| RST38h | Andrew: Could you ask Reggie if he would be willing to swap the behavior? | 15:35 |
| AndrewFBlak | Khertan_telework, http://pastebin.com/mf773524 | 15:36 |
| AndrewFBlak | I'm sure its something easy always is with me lol | 15:36 |
| AndrewFBlak | RST38h, I'll ask him if he wants me to swap it | 15:36 |
| RST38h | thanks =) | 15:36 |
| Khertan_telework | tabulation ... as is say ... use space :) | 15:37 |
| Khertan_telework | http://pastebin.com/macf30da | 15:37 |
| Khertan_telework | should be better | 15:37 |
| AndrewFBlak | RST38h, just remember for atleast now click on number like on main theme | 15:38 |
| AndrewFBlak | thanks | 15:38 |
| AndrewFBlak | I think hte editor i'm using put the tabs in when I copied it | 15:38 |
| Khertan_telework | what you didn't use pygtkeditor ? | 15:41 |
| Khertan_telework | :) | 15:41 |
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| AndrewFBlak | Khertan_telework, well I'm wrting it on my windows computer at work | 15:42 |
| AndrewFBlak | seems to not be working at all now | 15:43 |
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| lcuk | holy flock my calendar is massive!!! even bigger than i thought when i was stood there | 15:44 |
| lcuk | http://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/15/video-nokia-n900-presentation-with-gary-birkett-and-liqbase/ | 15:44 |
| lcuk | it really is visible from orbit | 15:44 |
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| Khertan_telework | OneDotZero <<< never heard ... what that ? | 15:44 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Who was generating the video, anyway? | 15:45 |
| Khertan_telework | Gary has been using the N900 for quite a while <<< serious ? | 15:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | yes | 15:45 |
| lcuk | Khertan_telework, it was a digital art festival. i was contacted and asked to create a remote control using the n900 which talks to huge high powered machines to display a massive 90foot display of whatever message is wanted | 15:45 |
| timeless_mbp | people who actually needed access to hardware were given access | 15:45 |
| RST38h | Ehehe, you have got the back of a postcard there! | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: c'est ce que je disais tout a l'heure | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: ceux qui ont besoin du hardware l'ont deja, et gratuitement en plus | 15:46 |
| Khertan_telework | crashanddie: euh ... je t'ai pas lu | 15:46 |
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| Khertan_telework | crashanddie: mouais ... no comment | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: je suis outré | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_telework: j'ai pas dis que c'était juste, je ne fais que dire ce que j'ai vu publiquement... | 15:47 |
| Khertan_telework | oui oui ... je prefere juste ne pas faire de commentaire | 15:48 |
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| RST38h | Ahahaha, lcuk has got tearing!!! :) | 15:49 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The tear nazis will visit your blog soon to complain about tearing! :) | 15:50 |
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| Khertan_telework | bye ... i ll try to see the price of a bp-4l battery at a local store ... | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | wave | 15:51 |
| RST38h | Khertan: May it be cheap and long lived for you! | 15:52 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, ill just tell em to use n8x0 then :p which part do you notice | 15:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Usually shows during full-screen transitions | 15:53 |
| * lcuk cant see through vnc properly | 15:53 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: When the screen shifts, you can see the characteristic "step". | 15:53 |
| lcuk | thats probably my code more than anything :D | 15:54 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Not really, I doubt you do this ON PURPOSE :) | 15:54 |
| lcuk | on the way down to london the app was crashing every 2 minutes it was seriously unstable | 15:54 |
| RST38h | weird | 15:54 |
| lcuk | i had adjusted one of the blitter functions and changed the Y offset instead of y height - so it was writing to Y=-1... | 15:55 |
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| RST38h | Ehhh | 15:55 |
| timeless_mbp | youch | 15:55 |
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| lcuk | yeah RST38h it took some heavy drinking to work out what was wrong | 15:56 |
| lcuk | i had noticed at the last minute that one plane was overrendering 1 line (i said this would happen to wazd the other day!) | 15:57 |
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| * SpeedEvil passes lcuk a fencepost to aid his coding. | 16:04 | |
| lcuk | fencepost? | 16:04 |
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| RST38h | Anyone can remind me if N900 has got a real power plug socket? | 16:05 |
| lcuk | usb | 16:05 |
| RST38h | Not the silly micro USB thing? | 16:05 |
| lcuk | .. | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencepost_error#Fencepost_error - a common term for off-by-one errro | 16:05 |
| RST38h | so, no power plug? | 16:05 |
| lcuk | hahaha SpeedEvil :) thank you | 16:06 |
| lcuk | no | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Speed: Jeez, they have got words for everything =) | 16:06 |
| lcuk | all usb | 16:06 |
| * lcuk vanishes | 16:06 | |
| * AndrewFBlak smacks head on desk | 16:07 | |
| * SpeedEvil calls the royal society for the prevention of cruelty to desks. | 16:08 | |
| AndrewFBlak | Khertan_telework, left didn't he | 16:08 |
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| suihkulokki | RST38h: if you mean does it have a socket to the classic 3.5mm or the newer 2mm nokia charger hole, no it does not have it | 16:10 |
| RST38h | heya javis | 16:10 |
| RST38h | javis: New OpenTTD is coool | 16:11 |
| suihkulokki | however, it comes with a microusb wall charger and a adapter for older chargers | 16:11 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki: Can we start a petition for inclusion of the 3.5mm socket into all Nokia devices? | 16:11 |
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| RST38h | suihkulokki: Becase these late adventures in charging are becoming silly =) | 16:11 |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: no, microusb charging is the new standard all phone manufacturers have agreed on | 16:12 |
| RST38h | suihkulokki: :( | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | There could have been worse standards. | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | But it sucks docks | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | for docks | 16:12 |
| RST38h | Well, the 2mm plug was pretty bad | 16:13 |
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| RST38h | But having it charge over USB has got some problems as well. The same N97 for example often *refuses* to charge over USB. You plug it in and it reports a data connection being established | 16:13 |
| mgedmin | when you plug it into a wall socket? | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | that's an annoying issue yes. | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Charging at high rate throgh normal USB hubs is broken | 16:14 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: apparently so | 16:14 |
| mgedmin | oops ouch | 16:15 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Got a friend with N97, he complained a lot about it | 16:15 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Some complaints seem to do with broken firmware, others are just generic "does not work as expected" complaints | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Nokia Maps current position randomly jumps by hundrends kms for example. Google Maps operate normally. | 16:16 |
| javispedro | RST38h: ta! :) | 16:16 |
| RST38h | javis: Got a weird bug report to make | 16:16 |
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| javispedro | feel free :) | 16:16 |
| till- | why didn't they provide both charge methods, over usb and 2mm | 16:16 |
| RST38h | javis: Any OpenTTD window that appears at the left edge of the display becomes unclosable in full screen mode | 16:17 |
| till- | now all my 2mm chargers will be useless | 16:17 |
| RST38h | javis: Nothing to do with the software of course, it is just that the N8x0 touch screen sucks at edges | 16:17 |
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| till- | and what if i want usb host mode and power supply | 16:17 |
| RST38h | till: there is a convertor for 2mm charger | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | till-: volume inside the case has many costs | 16:17 |
| AndrewFBlak | anyone who uses py2deb see any problem with this ? http://pastebin.com/mf773524 | 16:18 |
| SpeedEvil | till-: from squeezing other stuff to the extra costs of a hole | 16:18 |
| till- | but i don't want to carry a converter around all the time | 16:18 |
| RST38h | javis: So, it makes sense to open all windows a little bit away from the left and top edges of the screen | 16:18 |
| javispedro | RST38h: thank god you say that, I was starting to believe my digitizer was ddesensitizing | 16:18 |
| ccooke | On the plus side: Since every single phone manufacturer in Europe *has* to use a USB charger, it's rather likely we'll see a lot of work go into improvements to it in the next year or two | 16:18 |
| RST38h | javis: Naah, a known problem | 16:18 |
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| till- | i only have nokia devices with 2mm | 16:19 |
| ccooke | hell, it'll mean standardised docks become possible... | 16:19 |
| javispedro | noted, will see what can I do | 16:19 |
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| RST38h | ccooke: Gazing into my crystal balls, I already see multiple incompatible chargers using the same micro USB plug... | 16:19 |
| till- | is it possible to use the usb for charging and usb host mode at the same time? | 16:20 |
| ccooke | RST38h: one of the points is that they'd all work with a *standard* usb charger - the exact text actually defines exactly what that is | 16:20 |
| RST38h | till: Not eletrically | 16:20 |
| javispedro | there's actually a "usb charger class" spec in usb.org | 16:20 |
| RST38h | till: The device either provides power or accepts it, doesn't it? | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: yes, electrically | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | at least it seems like you shouldn't use a freerunner to charge a n900 | 16:21 |
| till- | well maybe it can work with some sort of special usb hub | 16:21 |
| ccooke | till-: possible, but you'd need drivers for it on the n900 | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: It's not completely clear where the fault is there. I'd want to check that freerunner with a 500mA load | 16:21 |
| RST38h | Speed: You mean, it can both provide power and get charged? =) | 16:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: I was addressing the multiple incompatible chargers question | 16:22 |
| RST38h | Speed: Ah | 16:22 |
| RST38h | Speed: Got it | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | The being in host mode while charging is a seperate question really, and is probably largely a firmware thing. | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think there's a standard for that. | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | compromise: 2 microUSB ports | 16:23 |
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| * AndrewFBlak thinks dang it I'm an artist not a developer | 16:23 | |
| SpeedEvil | Though there are obvious solutions that occur - for example - if a hub called 'nokiacharger' is plugged in - then go to high power charging and host mode | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | And a charger with a couple of USB device ports on top | 16:24 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: ...and make one of them accept 3.5mm plug =) | 16:24 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: usb has no concept of names | 16:24 |
| javispedro | it does have concept of product names and all that | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: not quite true - but I was speaking generically. | 16:25 |
| RST38h | crashanddieL actually it does | 16:25 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: I am not sure if hubs are named though | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: they can be | 16:25 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: no, a 2mm one (because *I* have a gazillion 2mm chargers and not a single 3.5mm one) | 16:25 |
| RST38h | interesting | 16:25 |
| javispedro | I am not sure if the USB group would accept that :) | 16:25 |
| mgedmin | 3.5mm is for audio | 16:25 |
| ccooke | RST38h: they can be. | 16:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: they almost never have serial numbers or names, but the only reason for that is cost | 16:25 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: 2mm is commonly considered too flimsy | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | As keyboards can have serial numbers - but rarely do. | 16:26 |
| * SpeedEvil stabs. | 16:26 | |
| mojocafe | is anyone willing and having the time to tell me the first steps with esbox on vmware ? | 16:26 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: the old fashioned 3.5mm was actually just right - thin enough to fit, yet thick enough to be durable | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: you have vendor and model information, no specific name | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: and having a driver audit for specific strings is probably the worst idea I've heard in quite some time | 16:26 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: you also can have a device identifier string | 16:26 |
| ccooke | I think all of my 2mm chargers are at least slightly bent.. | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: which is unique | 16:26 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: this is sufficient for what is being suggested | 16:26 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: for each device, not per model | 16:27 |
| mgedmin | it's true that a third of my gazillion 2mm chargers kinda died | 16:27 |
| mgedmin | and a second third look weirdly angled | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: indeed - there is also a serial number | 16:27 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: you do not really care if this hub is a unique one, as long as it has got the right product/vendor ids | 16:27 |
| ccooke | If nothing else, every USB device provides a Vendor and Product identifier - each are 16bits IIRC | 16:27 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: my point exactly | 16:27 |
| * till- wants a nokia usb hub with charging, host mode and 2/4 normal usb interfaces | 16:27 | |
| ccooke | and matching on those is enough. | 16:27 |
| mojocafe | noe one? :( *crying* | 16:27 |
| * RST38h just wants the DHL truck to come already | 16:28 | |
| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlak: didn't you do some Flash-related project on maemo at some point? | 16:28 |
| till- | can't that be integrated in this microusb-2mm thing? | 16:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm simply proposing a nokia charger - with its own nokia USB ID - which can do charging at high rate and let you connect devices at the same time. | 16:28 |
| AndrewFBlak | Stskeeps, yeah | 16:28 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: just read the bloody tutorials | 16:29 |
| alterego | I wonder if I can get an N900 in time for me going to Iceland next month | 16:29 |
| SpeedEvil | The _right_ way to do this would be for the USB committee not to be idiots. | 16:29 |
| mojocafe | ok, could anyone at least tell me a page with the simpliest Hello World tutorial for diablo !? | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlak: what exactly was it? | 16:29 |
| ccooke | alterego: when are you going? | 16:29 |
| alterego | Mid Oct :) | 16:29 |
| alterego | It's not likely I know ^_^ | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Speed: The moment word "commitee" is used, you can't avoid saying "idiots" | 16:29 |
| mgedmin | wasn't there like an eclipse plugin for maemo development? | 16:29 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: #include <stdio.h> int main() { printf("Hello world\n"); return 0 } | 16:29 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: there is, but then using Eclipse is torture | 16:30 |
| ccooke | alterego: so far, we have delivery by the 27th of September, 1st of October, 12th of October and 19th of October. Oh, and I think I heard the 1st of November, too. | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Regrettably. I've been arguing for some years that a 30V 0.5A option from 'high power' hubs would have killed 99% of the powersupplies on the desk. But meh. | 16:30 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: There is also an Anjuta plugin though, Anjuta looks like a usable choice | 16:30 |
| ccooke | alterego: at least a *couple* of those would be fine for you :-) | 16:30 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: and scratchbox isn't torture? | 16:30 |
| alterego | I'm in the UK ;) | 16:30 |
| mojocafe | crash: thnx, but not for scratchbox. i am totally new to the scripting etc. and just downloaded esbox to have unix via vmware on my xp OS | 16:30 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Not really | 16:30 |
| AndrewFBlak | Stskeeps, never finished any of them one was an audio player and others were games and loaders | 16:30 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Not unless you expect much from it | 16:30 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: tell that to mojocafe | 16:30 |
| ccooke | alterego: ah, well. Not a single one of those dates *directly* relates to you, then. But hey, who knows :-) | 16:30 |
| ccooke | I'm also in the UK... and while it's likely to be silly, I'm *hoping* for early October | 16:31 |
| RST38h | mgedmin; I will wait on that, until he gets smarter ;) | 16:31 |
| alterego | mojocafe: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial/ | 16:31 |
| alterego | mojocafe: that one is fine for diablo | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: I have to agree with you on that. I've been a big supporter of having one main DC supply running along the house, just one big converter from AC to low voltage DC (48V or something), would eliminate the need of every single device using it's own power supply | 16:31 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: But not, as long as you use SB2 and only compile stuff in it, it is pretty harmless | 16:31 |
| mgedmin | ignorance and stupidity are two different things | 16:31 |
| crashanddie | its** | 16:32 |
| mgedmin | does apt-get install work in SB2 these days? | 16:32 |
| mgedmin | it didn't when I tried it | 16:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Worked for me | 16:32 |
| mgedmin | hard to compile stuff when you can't get libraries | 16:32 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: then follow the tutorials on maemo.org | 16:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Yes, it had problems and is still having some problems | 16:32 |
| alterego | mojocafe: there's also a hello world package in the repository you can download and look at in the scratchbox targets. | 16:32 |
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| mojocafe | alter: thnx a lot. but now a stupid question: how can i enter these NOT in terminal but in esbox ? | 16:32 |
| javispedro | I like SB1 :) | 16:32 |
| mgedmin | mojocafe: what is "esbox"? | 16:32 |
| javispedro | eclipse. | 16:32 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: But at least you are no longer forced to access your local project files via NFS :) | 16:32 |
| mojocafe | http://esbox.garage.maemo.org/ | 16:32 |
| AndrewFBlak | Stskeeps, why do you ask? | 16:33 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I use --bind. The result is still faster than SB2... | 16:33 |
| mojocafe | is esbox = eclipse ? | 16:33 |
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| mgedmin | ah, _that_'s the eclipse thing I vaguely heard about | 16:33 |
| RST38h | javis: Dunno, I have not noticed any problems with compilation speed | 16:33 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: no, esbox is the project that packages eclipse in the manner you're using it | 16:33 |
| alterego | I've never used the Eclipse plugin. | 16:33 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: I suggest you learn to use Linux before trying to develop for it | 16:33 |
| RST38h | mgedminL Btw, esbox does not free you from having to use SB | 16:33 |
| alterego | I use a KVM virtualised environment with SSH+GEDIT | 16:33 |
| mgedmin | mojocafe: I assume you already read the documentation on the esbox site? | 16:34 |
| * RST38h compiles on an Ubuntu host (with sb2), the SCPs and runs on the device | 16:34 | |
| mojocafe | crash: ok got it, thnx. i there started a new c++ maemo project and he built me hundreds of files that i do not know what to do about. i would like to start from the first line by myself. | 16:34 |
| RST38h | mojocafe: You start by deleting all those files, then deleting Eclipse | 16:34 |
| alterego | RST38h: used sshfs on the host side? | 16:34 |
| javispedro | lol. | 16:34 |
| mojocafe | RST: lol | 16:34 |
| alterego | Works a little better for me than scp :) | 16:35 |
| RST38h | mojocafe: Once you do that, get the Maemopad example and examine it closely | 16:35 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: just download a linux VM and start with that | 16:35 |
| RST38h | mojocafe: Alternatively, you can look at the older HelloWorld example from Maemo3 SDK | 16:35 |
| RST38h | mojocafe: It is much simpler and shows you how to compile stuff without autoconf | 16:35 |
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| mojocafe | crash: esbox and vmware are taht. and it is great. i can even start a maemo emulator. i understood the mandatory filestructure of a maemo project but do not even know where to continue. | 16:35 |
| javispedro | "mandatory"? | 16:36 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: please use the full nickname of the people you're talking to | 16:36 |
| RST38h | alterego: Yea, using sshfs every now and then, but I am used to command line, so scp is not a big deal | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlak: cos of mojocafe | 16:36 |
| mojocafe | rst38h: that might be a good idea !!!! | 16:36 |
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| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlak: wants to do a simple loader i think | 16:36 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I mount the dev folder in the device using NFS. works great. | 16:37 |
| AndrewFBlak | I thought mojocafe was web browser based | 16:37 |
| javispedro | (for gdb sessions, since gdb finds the source) | 16:37 |
| crashanddie | mojocafe: I know what esbox is, please don't be a smartass when asking for help. I'm telling you you're taking things too quickly. Get yourself used to writing a small app, no fancy project development tools, just gcc/python, whatever floats your boat | 16:37 |
| mojocafe | andrewFBlak: coreect but i want to develop it as fullscreen application for my n800 | 16:37 |
| RST38h | javis: I am not that advanced... | 16:37 |
| RST38h | javis: Besides, I have found long time ago that printf() is sufficient for debugging and does not add all that much to debugging time | 16:38 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: lol | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | printf++ | 16:38 |
| RST38h | You just use it STRATEGICALLY and you are fine | 16:38 |
| javispedro | it's great for finding your way around :) | 16:38 |
| mojocafe | ok. thanks. | 16:38 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: one of my projects generates 15megs of logs in the first 30 seconds of startup | 16:39 |
| javispedro | actually, I consider oprofile a godsend. | 16:39 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Bad strategy! :) | 16:39 |
| lcuk | mojocafe, also, with your fullscreen app, make sure user has an easy way out - if you dont and they get a phone call they will be annoyed | 16:39 |
| RST38h | javis: Brought to you by Intel, really | 16:39 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: that's why you can set the debug flags ;) | 16:39 |
| javispedro | Didn't know. I've been playing a bit with the pin stuff lately | 16:39 |
| RST38h | javis: If Intel had not included those hw performance counters into its CPUs, nobody would :) | 16:39 |
| AndrewFBlak | mojocafe, are you wanting to have peoples settings on your site carry over to the tablet application? I mean having the Flash Items on tablet is real easy linking which ones show from users site account is only hard part | 16:40 |
| javispedro | ah, you mean _indirectly_ :) | 16:40 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: just saying, a good logging library is needed, and a lot more performing than say, if (DEBUG == true) printf(bla) | 16:40 |
| mojocafe | AndrewFBlak: nah forget. I'll check other stuff first. Thanks a lot for your help and support. | 16:41 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Whatever logging library you implement, if you are dropping 15MB of logs on startup, you will still lose | 16:41 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: As a short term solution, I can suggest using ZLib, it will be quick to add | 16:41 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: this is a multi million project that is being used by multiple governments ;) | 16:41 |
| javispedro | Also, at least when I talk about "printf debugging" I don't mean "proper logging". Sometimes I abuse and do "Printf("a1\n"); | 16:41 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: And all these will lose =) | 16:41 |
| crashanddie | right :) | 16:41 |
| RST38h | javis: I use 111, 222, 333, 444, ... | 16:42 |
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| RST38h | javis: Just to see where exactly it fucks up | 16:42 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 16:42 |
| crashanddie | arrogant IRC prat tells successful company how to write their code, news at 11 | 16:42 |
| RST38h | but it is one of situations where GDB is of some use though | 16:42 |
| * javispedro considers that a bad habit though. learnt from the palm days. | 16:42 | |
| alterego | I use, 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, :P | 16:42 |
| RST38h | It is good at pointint out the crahs points :) | 16:42 |
| alterego | Nice when you need to recurse into a function call :P | 16:43 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: Ah, ok, continue generating 15MB logs at startup | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Who am I to tell you not to... :) | 16:43 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: in debug mode, I really don't see any issue with that ;) | 16:43 |
| javispedro | I don't either. Just call it a "trace" and be done with it :) | 16:44 |
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| RST38h | Ehehe | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | lol javispedro, fair enoughj | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | anyway, time for cancer | 16:44 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: is the weather shite in gunchester as well? | 16:44 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: Google Street View Cars Prowl Outer Herbides! | 16:44 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders openstreetview again. | 16:45 | |
| alterego | Heh | 16:45 |
| alterego | I wanna do some augmented reality stuff. | 16:45 |
| RST38h | drugs, you mean? | 16:46 |
| lbt | holland is good for that | 16:46 |
| alterego | :) | 16:46 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, sunny windy. outlook is ok so far today | 16:46 |
| javispedro | btw, does anyone know a good (fast, not perl) tcp over udp tunnel and udp hole punching? | 16:47 |
| lcuk | hope the remaining clouds clear tho | 16:47 |
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| lcuk | tcp over udp tunnel? | 16:47 |
| lcuk | isnt that tcp itself | 16:47 |
| alterego | That's what I was thinking :) | 16:47 |
| javispedro | not really. tcp uses ip. | 16:47 |
| lcuk | thats like being asked to use udp code but put in delivery confirmation and resending :p | 16:47 |
| javispedro | it makes no sense I know. It does when you factor in two hosts between two NATs each. | 16:47 |
| lcuk | udp uses ip | 16:47 |
| javispedro | see http://samy.pl/chownat/ (which is what I've been using) | 16:48 |
| lcuk | for router problems, you could just use carrier pigeons | 16:48 |
| javispedro | but being in perl, in requires a chroot, and is sloooow. | 16:48 |
| lcuk | its always going to be slow | 16:48 |
| lcuk | you have to attack from both sides and hope you get a match | 16:48 |
| lcuk | and its a flood attack basically isnt it | 16:48 |
| crashanddie | yup | 16:49 |
| javispedro | for the startup phase at least | 16:49 |
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| javispedro | but after that it should be "as fast as a direct udp connecting". | 16:49 |
| javispedro | *connection. | 16:49 |
| RST38h | Hmmm...Combined Canon+SE device to be announced on Sep 21 | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | javispedro: it's never going to be as fast | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | javispedro: you have an extra layer, atop of UP | 16:49 |
| crashanddie | UDP | 16:49 |
| javispedro | crashanddie: ah, right. | 16:50 |
| ccooke | RST38h: not necessarily - aren't those seperate announcements that happen to have the same date? | 16:50 |
| javispedro | but no "random" overheads due to flooding | 16:50 |
| crashanddie | however, having it being run by a perl script isn't helping the whole speed thing | 16:50 |
| RST38h | ccooke: apparently they are preparing a joint announcement | 16:51 |
| javispedro | that's what I say. It starts to consume a lot of memory and nearlt 50% of the cpu just by sshing in and doing "ps ax". | 16:51 |
| lcuk | flooding is only at connection time | 16:51 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: joint announcement? In Amsterdam? | 16:51 |
| javispedro | lcuk: yes, afaiu | 16:51 |
| RST38h | Or maybe I am reading too much into it | 16:51 |
| lcuk | once you have the "connection"/"session" isnt it normal speed as you say | 16:51 |
| alterego | I want to write an app that downloads my friends profile pics from facebook/whereever and uses those images in my phone book. | 16:51 |
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| X-Fade | alterego: Isn't that what Maemo5 does already? | 16:52 |
| ccooke | TCP over UDP is almost as fast as raw TCP - the only times it'll be slower are when you're sending packets that are larger than your MTU - and even then, it's only a few percent slower. | 16:52 |
| alterego | X-Fade: does it? | 16:53 |
| ccooke | perl ought to be able to saturate a 100Mbit link at the least, probably gigabit. | 16:53 |
| javispedro | ccooke: on a tablet | 16:53 |
| ccooke | javispedro: ah, well. n810? | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | alterego: Well, at least it seems to get the from your gtalk contacts etc? | 16:53 |
| javispedro | yep | 16:53 |
| alterego | I don't use gtalk | 16:53 |
| ccooke | javispedro: if you can't saturate a 10M connection, something's wrong. | 16:53 |
| alterego | And none of my friends use it either :P | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | alterego: in the demo youtube video you see that. | 16:54 |
| ccooke | javispedro: it *should* be fast enough for that. | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | alterego: So I guess you can plug in every telepathy provider? | 16:54 |
| javispedro | ccooke: well. it felt *so slow* (ssh) than I didn't even try a NX/VNC session. | 16:54 |
| ccooke | That's a shame :-. | 16:54 |
| ccooke | hmm | 16:55 |
| alterego | How does it know that facebook friend A is contact 1? | 16:55 |
| ccooke | For pure networking, perl is actually pretty optimised | 16:55 |
| javispedro | ccooke: i fault perl, since I'm using the totally unoptimised debian binary | 16:55 |
| javispedro | compiled for armv4 iirc. | 16:55 |
| ccooke | javispedro: thing is, perl has a pretty good built-in optimiser. When you're doing networking code, it should be *fast*. | 16:56 |
| X-Fade | alterego: Don't know if there is a facebook provider for telepathy. | 16:56 |
| ccooke | javispedro: it's not like user code where you shunt around strings and dynamic variables. It'll be basically working on ints and never casting... | 16:56 |
| javispedro | ccooke: well, maybe It's just not good for interactive stuff but has good throughput. will try with NX when I get back. | 16:56 |
| ccooke | javispedro: of course, that assumes that the perl script was well written | 16:56 |
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| alterego | X-Fade: there is for libpurple, I thought they were kind of the same thing .. Kind of .. :) | 16:57 |
| ccooke | javispedro: the problem is, tcp over udp is the best fit for interactive use there is when tunneling. | 16:57 |
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| javispedro | :P | 16:59 |
| ccooke | what's the script you use? | 17:00 |
| javispedro | ccooke: http://samy.pl/chownat/ | 17:00 |
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| X-Fade | alterego: It seems that msn support is being uploaded to extras-devel as we speak. | 17:03 |
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| alterego | Cool | 17:03 |
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| X-Fade | ah, and facebookchat was already uploaded, but failed to build. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Any news of BT HID support? | 17:04 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: How should I know? | 17:04 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:05 |
| X-Fade | It seems that Jonnylamb is doing a good job ;) | 17:05 |
| ccooke | javispedro: tried it with debug enabled? | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | for fremantle? | 17:06 |
| * Stskeeps drools | 17:06 | |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Well, I hoped somebody could upload it to extras-devel as well =) | 17:06 |
| RST38h | After all, it is said to be easily addable | 17:06 |
| javispedro | ccooke: I was thiking just about that. it did print sequence numbers for each package received, so I guess the answer is "yes". | 17:06 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well, I guess that when hardware is generally available, someone will scratch that itch. | 17:06 |
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| ccooke | javispedro: and nothing about missing packets? | 17:07 |
| javispedro | ccooke: none that I could see. | 17:07 |
| ccooke | javispedro: drat. The code isn't setting off any warning bells in my head - which of course doesn't mean it's *good*, but... | 17:07 |
| javispedro | ccooke: i'm open to suggestions :) | 17:07 |
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| javispedro | (about alternative programs) | 17:08 |
| javispedro | I will give this one another go, but not today | 17:08 |
| ccooke | javispedro: well, I used openvpn on the nokia a while back | 17:08 |
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| ccooke | javispedro: which also uses tcp-over-udp, but was definitely okay for interactive use | 17:09 |
| javispedro | con you use that between two nat'd hosts without an extra host? | 17:09 |
| javispedro | ah | 17:09 |
| ccooke | javispedro: it can be used in several modes, but IIRC one will provide that. | 17:09 |
| javispedro | also, being able to use it without root is a nice plus. | 17:10 |
| ccooke | javispedro: http://opensource-openmind.blogspot.com/2007/12/setting-up-openvpn-server-behind-router.html | 17:10 |
| ccooke | ah, now that's something that openvpn won't solve, unfortunately | 17:10 |
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| * GeneralAntilles stabs Comcast. | 17:11 | |
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| ccooke | Technically, there's no reason you couldn't run a single-connection-single-port client as a user | 17:11 |
| ccooke | but as far as I know it hasn't been done | 17:12 |
| javispedro | yeah. Well, there's the script I sent you, which I found nice. Using ssh then I can multiplex in any extra ports as required. | 17:12 |
| ccooke | *nod* | 17:13 |
| ccooke | ... actually... | 17:13 |
| ccooke | hmm. | 17:13 |
| ccooke | One moment. | 17:13 |
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| AndrewFBlak | I'm trying to use py2deb but all my files are not making it into the tar file can I just add the ones that are not going in manually or will that not work? | 17:14 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, where was the packages interface again? as in, view queue, new builds etc | 17:21 |
| lopz | hi ;) | 17:21 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: maemo.org/packages/ | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | i went for packages.maemo.org, silly me :P | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | ta | 17:21 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Although the new builds part is changing at the moment ;) | 17:21 |
| javispedro | hum. someone built minimal libesd->pulseaudio, good news :) | 17:22 |
| wazd | http://www.mobilewhack.com/new-bmorn-player-bm-888/ | 17:22 |
| wazd | New Mer candidate? :) | 17:22 |
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| Stskeeps | possibly, but it has to be hackable :P | 17:23 |
| javispedro | they don't even list what cpu it uses. | 17:23 |
| acouto | hi all | 17:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: It is an x86 device | 17:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: Will probably run Ubuntu or Moblin | 17:24 |
| javispedro | for 177$? | 17:24 |
| RST38h | Well it says " The player weighs 440grams, supports USB 2.0, and works with Windows Vista, XP, and Windows 2000." | 17:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: noway :) | 17:25 |
| SpeedEvil | There are some _really_ cheap lower end x86 chips coming out | 17:25 |
| SpeedEvil | 'works with' != runs | 17:25 |
| RST38h | hmm | 17:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: I think it "supports" Win Vist etc | 17:25 |
| javispedro | RST38h: considering the rest of the announcement reads like an advertisement, my guess is "the music+adware software we force you to use works with..." | 17:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: UMPC for $200? :D | 17:26 |
| RST38h | well it is made by brando, so it has to be cheap | 17:26 |
| RST38h | wazd: more like a keyboardless netbook | 17:26 |
| RST38h | javis: maybe, yes | 17:26 |
| javispedro | either way. an x86 tablet for $177, capable of running Windows? I would buy it in an instant. | 17:26 |
| wazd | RST38h: noway :) There should be hell of a noise then :) | 17:26 |
| javispedro | it's 7''. | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: you can get that on ebay. | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Just not very new ones :)( | 17:27 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, :) | 17:27 |
| RST38h | wazd: Atoms run fanless | 17:27 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, I mean "Blog" noise :) | 17:28 |
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| RST38h | ah | 17:29 |
| RST38h | wazd: btw, ru_nokia | 17:29 |
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| RST38h | wazd: empty for now, but rumor says it will be the "official blog" | 17:29 |
| javispedro | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/15/sinchuns-8-9-inch-umpc-891a-holds-onto-the-past-with-xp/ | 17:29 |
| javispedro | see, a x86 7'' tablet | 17:30 |
| javispedro | well, not 7'', but approx ;) | 17:30 |
| javispedro | and it costs $439 | 17:30 |
| RST38h | who knows... | 17:30 |
| acouto | i have a question : "i wanna to execute a gps example. I installed the scratchbox and maemo's sdk and I can not compile . says he doesnt have the lib gps.h, how do I install this lib?" | 17:30 |
| RST38h | apt-get | 17:31 |
| javispedro | "a gps example"? | 17:31 |
| acouto | javispedro, http://pastie.org/617451 | 17:32 |
| javispedro | ah, using libgpsbt | 17:32 |
| javispedro | I don't have libgpsbt in my fremantle sdk | 17:33 |
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| javispedro | are you targeting diablo or fremantle? | 17:33 |
| acouto | diablo | 17:34 |
| AndrewFBlak | wonder why i keep getting logged out of maemo.org when using extras assistant | 17:34 |
| javispedro | acouto: "apt-get install osso-gpsd-dev" | 17:34 |
| RST38h | 'cause Maemo.org logins are still broken in mysterious ways | 17:34 |
| qwerty12 | AndrewFBlak: https:// | 17:35 |
| RST38h | So far, X-Fade managed to persuade me that it is all because of web caching, but I am getting doubtful again | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | AndrewFBlak: because that is garage. | 17:35 |
| acouto | javispedro, i ll install | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | AndrewFBlak: Which technically isn't maemo.org ;) | 17:35 |
| AndrewFBlak | ok i keep getting logged out of Garage :) | 17:35 |
| X-Fade | AndrewFBlak: Different sessions at least. | 17:35 |
| acouto | javispedro, osso-gpsd-dev is already the newest version. | 17:36 |
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| javispedro | then pastebin your compiler output, since that package provides gps.h | 17:37 |
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| acouto | javispedro, I think I'm not knowing how to compile. I just "gcc -o" | 17:38 |
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| acouto | javispedro, http://pastie.org/617469 | 17:43 |
| qwerty12 | acouto: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pkg-config | 17:44 |
| crashanddie | how is gcc -o not compiling? | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: shouldn't you be at school or something? | 17:46 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: lessons finished for the day | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: then shouldn't you be selling drugs? | 17:46 |
| *** xkill is now known as riot | 17:46 | |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: that comes later | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: selling stolen PS3s at the moment? | 17:46 |
| crashanddie | ebaying russian wives? | 17:46 |
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| qwerty12 | Wow, who gave you my eBay username? | 17:47 |
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| javispedro | acouto: actually, gps.h is in /usr/include, | 17:47 |
| javispedro | your problem is that both gtk.h _and_ gpsbt.h are missing | 17:48 |
| javispedro | gps.h is the only one it finds | 17:48 |
| javispedro | ..... | 17:48 |
| * javispedro sighs :) | 17:48 | |
| crashanddie | acouto: -I/usr/lib/gtk or something | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | or /usr/include | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | can't remember | 17:49 |
| javispedro | or `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0' iirc | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | javispedro: that too :) | 17:49 |
| javispedro | better yet: grab the maemopad makefile and read how they invoke gcc. | 17:49 |
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| wazd_ | lol, my internet cord works like water pipe or something :) | 17:50 |
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| qwerty12 | In Soviet Russia, internet disconnects you | 17:51 |
| wazd_ | If I'll squeeze it - internet stops working :D | 17:51 |
| crashanddie | wazd_: you use your internet to make girls wearing white tshirts wet? Then yes, your internet cord is the same as my water hose | 17:52 |
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| hexa-- | is it possible to get maemo 5.0 installed into qemu? | 17:53 |
| javispedro | it's not released. | 17:54 |
| hexa-- | oh ok | 17:54 |
| hexa-- | all these news about n900 and it is not released yet :D | 17:54 |
| javispedro | there's a beta sdk released | 17:54 |
| javispedro | which runs parts of the gui (both as native i386 and user-space qemu armel), but that's not maemo5. | 17:55 |
| hexa-- | hm okay, so i'll be patient :) | 17:55 |
| hexa-- | thanks for the input | 17:55 |
| javispedro | :) | 17:56 |
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| * AndrewFBlak slaps the garage | 18:03 | |
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| AndrewFBlak | I don't get my garage never has any problem keeping me logged in until today | 18:09 |
| javispedro | Murphy's Law? | 18:12 |
| * RST38h wonders why all these java-based web "solutions" insist on setting webpage icon to SUN logo | 18:12 | |
| javispedro | RST38h: same reason my ISP had the "Netscape web server" favicon for years. | 18:12 |
| RST38h | javis: Let me guess... "ignorance"? | 18:12 |
| javispedro | :) | 18:12 |
| javispedro | a mix of ignorance, lazyness, and expecting your users are ignorants are the same time :) | 18:13 |
| javispedro | *at the same time | 18:13 |
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| RST38h | Student Kills Intruder with Samurai Sword after PlayStation, Laptops Stolen | 18:14 |
| javispedro | yay revenge | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: server pride :) | 18:18 |
| timeless_mbp | part of the reason though was to prevent the server logs from filling up w/ 404s | 18:18 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 18:18 |
| javispedro | dreamhost now implemented a policy where a 404 to a "favicon.ico" file results in the webserver creating the file (empty content). | 18:19 |
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| AndrewFBlak | ok this makes no since why garage wont remember me even if whn I try multple computers | 18:21 |
| javispedro | Suicide of France Telecom employee 23rd in 18 months, triggering government concern | 18:21 |
| javispedro | wha? | 18:21 |
| javispedro | I knew carriers were more evil than the devil, but this... | 18:21 |
| RST38h | "Can be easily summoned with an enchanted dagger made of a pure metal. Since there is little limitations on when or where this ritual can take place, Dimensional Shamblers have become a favourite species to summon for many wizards and / or cultists." | 18:22 |
| RST38h | javis: They should at least inflict some damage on the employer before they suicide, otherwise it sounds like waste | 18:23 |
| javispedro | "A 32-year-old employee working in the bill collection service threw herself from a sixth-floor window of the Paris building where she worked Friday evening shortly after learning that she would get a new boss." | 18:23 |
| javispedro | I think "that" qualifies as damage ;) | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: France Telecom is obviously Hell Inc. | 18:23 |
| qwerty12 | Only if she smashed the window before jumping out of it. | 18:24 |
| javispedro | I wonder if the "new boss" was steve ballmer or someone equally evil. | 18:25 |
| *** AndrewFBlak has quit IRC | 18:26 | |
| RST38h | Must have been the Tentacled One Himself! | 18:26 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h: Didn't you hear? He also killed himself after hearing that he would have to work there, too | 18:27 |
| RST38h | qwerty: The Tentacled One is eternal, of course. | 18:27 |
| qwerty12 | But this is France Telecom | 18:27 |
| javispedro | yes, they're even more eternal. | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | No one fucks with them unless they're about to kill themselves | 18:28 |
| javispedro | if the fine print of your average phone contract is to be believed. | 18:28 |
| RST38h | Telecoms may well be controlled by supernatural forces | 18:28 |
| RST38h | Has anyone ever seen a head of a national telecom company in person? I mean, as a live person? | 18:28 |
| crashanddie | what did quim eat this morning? | 18:28 |
| crashanddie | some superwarior cereals? | 18:29 |
| RST38h | See? For all we know they may be Deep Ones | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | Vindicative Manager syndrome pops? | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: yup | 18:29 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: What happened to Quim? | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: I met the head of BT and head of FT | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | which are both international, I guess | 18:29 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: how many tentacles on each? | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | 6 on average | 18:29 |
| chx | where do you guys get audio cables (to plug in a headphone and a mic) for the n810? | 18:30 |
| *** crashanddie_ has quit IRC | 18:30 | |
| crashanddie | eh | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | I quit? | 18:30 |
| RST38h | you did. for revealing the number of tentacles BT chief has | 18:30 |
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| crashanddie | well it is from a BT landline | 18:30 |
| RST38h | anyways, what is up with Quim? | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | I dunno | 18:30 |
| RST38h | t.m.o finally got on his nerves? | 18:30 |
| crashanddie | his answers are a bit rough, to say the least | 18:31 |
| crashanddie | "Guys, we can't micromanage every detail for everybody. Apply your common sense, don't abuse the system and everything will be fine. Thank you!" | 18:31 |
| crashanddie | "Maybe it's me, but 3) sounds like a no brainer [...]" | 18:32 |
| qwerty12 | It's your fault. | 18:32 |
| RST38h | well, isn't he right? | 18:32 |
| crashanddie | well, no | 18:32 |
| crashanddie | he misreads an email, and then tries to make us look like idiots | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, that sounds like one of my statements that's not intended to be brusque being interpreted as such. | 18:32 |
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| crashanddie | hi crashanddie_ | 18:33 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie_: like crashanddie, you suck | 18:33 |
| AndrewFBlack | does the garage extras assistant work for everyone else or is just me? | 18:33 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: stfu, kiddo | 18:33 |
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| qwerty12 | crashanddie_ is too pussy to answer | 18:33 |
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| qwerty12 | He has to get crashanddie to do it for him | 18:34 |
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| _crashanddie_ | happy now? | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | asshat | 18:34 |
| javispedro | AndrewFBlack: I can get to the package upload form. I don't have a package to upload though. | 18:34 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles & qwerty12: there's a guy who just wanted advice/point out something based on the very good premise that it's not his money, and he just wanted to know which options he had | 18:35 |
| crashanddie | and quim just tells him he lacks common sense, and pollutes THE FUCKING MAILING LISTS? | 18:35 |
| RST38h | crash: url? | 18:35 |
| crashanddie | dunno, check your inbox | 18:35 |
| RST38h | ok | 18:36 |
| timeless_mbp | which list? | 18:36 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/52275 | 18:36 |
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| crashanddie | it's a mailing list, helloooooo, half the stuff that goes on in there is just ranting is stupid stuff | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | it's like IRC on crack | 18:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, hello, overreaction. | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I can't get some IDM code to work, just venting, nevermind | 18:36 |
| Myrtti | *yawn* | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: lmao @ comment on stephen's nomination | 18:37 |
| * javispedro searches the internets for superwarior cereals | 18:37 | |
| timeless_mbp | post 7 isn't talking about polluting the mailinglist | 18:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it's saying don't try to rip nokia off for 1000usd | 18:38 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: :) | 18:38 |
| ccooke | javispedro: you might have more luck search for supperwarrior ones | 18:38 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 18:38 |
| javispedro | replacing one typo with another? :) | 18:39 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: "What, so you can't fly first class?" | 18:39 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs @c10 | 18:39 | |
| ccooke | javispedro: argh. | 18:39 |
| qwerty12 | ccooke: That's called "Viagra"... | 18:39 |
| timeless_mbp | ccooke: i can't fly at all :) | 18:39 |
| ccooke | timeless_mbp: oh? | 18:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | nokia won't pay for me to go :) | 18:39 |
| AndrewFBlack | this make no since some times I can get to step 4 before garage logs me out and sometimes I just get loged right back out when I log in | 18:40 |
| crashanddie | ccooke: timeless has a physical condition which prevents him from taking the plane | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | timeless_mbp: Ask them to pay for your face change operation and we'll vouch for you as a community member | 18:40 |
| crashanddie | ccooke: as such, he has to go everywhere on a push-bike | 18:40 |
| ccooke | well, nor me. Although I know for certain that's a good decision on their part :-) | 18:40 |
| javispedro | "Chinock Reposatory"... :D | 18:40 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: where'd you find that? | 18:40 |
| javispedro | tmo post | 18:40 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: well, i do have a physical condition that prevents me from driving a car unaided ;-) | 18:40 |
| * timeless_mbp needs glasses :( | 18:40 | |
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| ccooke | I have a physical condition that prevents me from driving a car unmodified... :-) | 18:41 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12: why did you remove the "rt" part of your last name? | 18:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | ccooke, a Need for Speed? ;) | 18:41 |
| qwerty12 | crashanddie: I didn't want to be associated with people like you | 18:42 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: he said unmodified, not under the influence | 18:42 |
| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: Heh. No, I'm too big. There isn't a car I can drive without having the front seat ripped out and bolted on further back :-) | 18:42 |
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| crashanddie | qwerty12: so it's not Faheem Pervertz? | 18:42 |
| ccooke | Which is the main reason I've never learned | 18:42 |
| crashanddie | ccooke: how big? | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | ccooke, ever driven an American SUV? | 18:43 |
| ccooke | crashanddie: 6'8", but built like an average (so, you know. Overweight) geek scaled up. | 18:43 |
| crashanddie | geeks aren't overweight | 18:43 |
| crashanddie | well, I guess geeks are usually in the extremes | 18:43 |
| ccooke | crashanddie: yeah, painfully thin is about as common | 18:44 |
| crashanddie | I was scared that if I sneezed, qwerty12 would fly away | 18:44 |
| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: Tried one once. They're not *particularly* common in the UK, of course. | 18:44 |
| qwerty12 | But, yet, I'd need a fucking bulldozer to even move crashanddie an inch | 18:44 |
| * javispedro uses a bulldozer to move around | 18:45 | |
| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: I could get my legs under the steering wheel, but having them above the pedals was painful to the point of muscle spasm. Which they told me wouldn't be a good thing for a driver :-) | 18:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | ccooke, clearly you need to go bigger, then. ;) | 18:45 |
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| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: naturally! | 18:45 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, and crashanddie has superhero powers - he just holds out his hand and you fly back 10 foot | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wikipedia. . . . | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love it when people drive-by spam deletion proposals. | 18:46 |
| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: oh dear. Which article? | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Canola | 18:47 |
| javispedro | fwiw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canola_(software) | 18:47 |
| AndrewFBlack | well it took over 100 tries but i got extras assistant to take my files lol | 18:48 |
| chx | http://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-Audio-Adaptor-Microphone-Nokia/dp/B000XEUHP6 <= will this work with the N810? | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | javispedro & GeneralAntilles: there's no discussion on the talk page about the deletion | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | canola probably won't meet notability | 18:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, right, because all they did was add a deletion notice to the top and claim it's not notable. | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Canola_%28software%29 | 18:50 |
| javispedro | yay deletionpedia | 18:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know what purpose deleting articles serves. | 18:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Busy bodies with too much goddamn time on their hands. | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The motto of the AIW is Conservata veritate, which translates to, "With the preserved truth". This motto reflects the inclusionist desire to change Wikipedia only when no knowledge would be lost as a result. | 18:50 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 18:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ovi Maps seems to have incomplete lists of everything. | 18:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Of the dozen post offices in this area, it only lists 4. | 18:51 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: me neither. and don't get me started why Grand Moff Tarkin deserves an article but every other piece of software in existence does not. | 18:51 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: The guy's name is "Miami33139". Go find him and beef it out. | 18:51 |
| Proteous | it's your fault for having so many frickin post offices | 18:51 |
| Proteous | 12? | 18:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, Miam scares the shit out of me quite honestly. :P | 18:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Proteous, yeah, USPS is AWESOME. | 18:52 |
| qwerty12 | :p | 18:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | You just wish you had 12 UPS stores. | 18:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/Miam/Miami/ | 18:52 |
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| * GeneralAntilles is off to the post office. | 18:52 | |
| Proteous | lol | 18:52 |
| Proteous | choices choices | 18:53 |
| crashanddie | w00t w00t, let's fight the Wikipedia trolls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Canola_%28software%29#Canola_.28software.29 | 18:55 |
| RST38h | lets not. | 18:55 |
| javispedro | good luck. | 18:55 |
| javispedro | I personally already bookmarked the future Deletionpedia url. | 18:55 |
| javispedro | "Andrew Lih, a deletionist-turned inclusionist, observes a cultural shift from Wikipedia's initial expansion in that it has become more cautious. He changed his position when an article he created about the social networking website Pownce was speedily deleted by another administrator as advertising." | 18:57 |
| RST38h | Association of Illusionist Wikipedians... | 18:57 |
| javispedro | formally, this means there can be no true deletionist. | 18:57 |
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| RST38h | presently, it means that just about any wikipedian is an illusionist =) | 18:58 |
| javispedro | "The article on South African restaurant Mzoli's was nominated for deletion after being created by Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales,[27] who said that supporters of deletion displayed "shockingly bad faith behavior." | 18:58 |
| Myrtti | there is no such thing as a deletionist | 18:58 |
| javispedro | heh. | 18:58 |
| Myrtti | there's only eventualists | 18:58 |
| RST38h | all articles created by Wales should be deleted. | 18:59 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: delete wikipedia itself then :) | 18:59 |
| RST38h | after all he tainted himself. burn, Burn. BURN IT ALL!!! | 18:59 |
| RST38h | javis: Good idea | 19:00 |
| * RST38h laughs diabolically | 19:00 | |
| qwerty12 | Despite being a geek myself, I actually find it sad and laughable that there's fucking drama to be found on Wikipedia. | 19:00 |
| RST38h | qwerty: This is known as "Geeks find out about social interaction" | 19:01 |
| javispedro | there's drama in my soup too. | 19:01 |
| javispedro | RST38h: more like "geeks getting to rule the world" | 19:01 |
| * RST38h prefers lurkmore/etc | 19:01 | |
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| RST38h | And scp of course | 19:01 |
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| RST38h | javis: *and* finding about social interaction in the process. | 19:01 |
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| Myrtti | qwerty12: which is why I'm not going to be elected to the Finnish Wikipedia ArbCom anymore | 19:02 |
| javispedro | instead of political debates between abortion or evolution, we would get inclusionism vs deletionism | 19:02 |
| * RST38h wishes US daycare/school would be more like in .RU | 19:02 | |
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| RST38h | That would greatly decrease social awkwardness at the later stages | 19:02 |
| crashanddie | geeks getting to shape what history will remember, now that's scary | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | Myrtti: :) | 19:02 |
| javispedro | crashanddie: yay, "the geek age" :) | 19:03 |
| Myrtti | it's actually why I haven't really contributed to it at all in two years | 19:03 |
| qwerty12 | I just don't get all the drama over a encyclopedia. "Ooh, let's ban him! Delete this article! This guy is a spammer!" | 19:03 |
| qwerty12 | Jesus Christ, get a fucking life | 19:03 |
| qwerty12 | (And this is me saying that...) | 19:04 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Everybody thinks his assho^H^H^H^Hopinion is the most important one, that's all | 19:04 |
| javispedro | qwerty12: it's all about ruling the world :) especially when your average reporter is going to grab his "facts" from there :) | 19:04 |
| Myrtti | qwerty12: http://xkcd.com/386/ | 19:04 |
| qwerty12 | javispedro: I thought that was The Onion? :) | 19:04 |
| Myrtti | knowledge is power | 19:04 |
| qwerty12 | Myrtti: :D | 19:04 |
| RST38h | qwerty: This feeling should really get surgically removed at early stages of kid's growth | 19:04 |
| crashanddie | Myrtti: http://xkcd.com/285/ | 19:05 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Unfortunately, it does not, at least not in the US | 19:05 |
| Myrtti | related http://xkcd.com/635/ | 19:05 |
| RST38h | qwerty: So, 18-20 years later, you get this crap. | 19:05 |
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| rm_you | daycare in the US is useless | 19:06 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: huh? surgically remove a feeling? | 19:06 |
| rm_you | I'd rather have my children wandering around my house unsupervised | 19:06 |
| rm_you | then when they find a knife and cut themselves they damn well learn not to do it again | 19:07 |
| RST38h | more or less, yes | 19:07 |
| luke-jr | rm_you: lol | 19:07 |
| RST38h | But it is not too late to remove all the warning labels ;) | 19:07 |
| luke-jr | I think that's how my daughter learned not to stick her hand in the trash ;) | 19:08 |
| RST38h | luke-jr: So, what was hiding in the trash? =) | 19:08 |
| rm_you | yeah, whatever happened to the days of "let your kids touch a hot stove and burn their hand, THEN tell them not to do it"? | 19:08 |
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| rm_you | nowadays kids don't learn the stove is hot till they move out and go try to cook in their college dorm | 19:08 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: metal can, opened | 19:09 |
| crashanddie | Myrtti: xkcd fight: http://xkcd.com/446/ | 19:09 |
| RST38h | luke_jr: Oh. Painful. | 19:09 |
| rm_you | and they're like, omg this really IS hot | 19:09 |
| luke-jr | rm_you: pfft, make your kids cook meals for you when they turn 7 | 19:09 |
| RST38h | rm_you: There was a story in some blog once, about the author taking his 12 year old daughter to the window | 19:09 |
| * rm_you things it is somewhat ironic that he holds this view and IS a college student | 19:09 | |
| zaheerm | rm_you, what's a stove again? ;) | 19:09 |
| rm_you | s/things/thinks/ | 19:09 |
| luke-jr | haha, so true | 19:10 |
| rm_you | lol | 19:10 |
| luke-jr | most kids probably only use microwaves | 19:10 |
| rm_you | i was taught the old way | 19:10 |
| rm_you | apparently i'm an exception | 19:10 |
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| Myrtti | I use microwave for cooking my porridge mainly | 19:10 |
| qwerty12 | microwaves++ | 19:10 |
| RST38h | rm_you: And saying "See, there is probably 1-2 million people you can see from this window. And not a single one of them GIVES ANY SHIT ABOUT YOU and your feelings." | 19:10 |
| luke-jr | my wife trashed our microwave years ago | 19:10 |
| rm_you | like the first time i fried an AT motherboard by plugging the wires in backwards | 19:10 |
| Myrtti | I want an inverter microwave | 19:10 |
| rm_you | or shocked myself on a power supply that wasn't drained properly before attempting to repair it | 19:10 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: where was this window that you can see 2 million people from it? | 19:11 |
| rm_you | RST38h: rofl. win | 19:11 |
| RST38h | luke-jr: Moscow. 15mil total population (estimated) | 19:11 |
| luke-jr | rm_you: meh, who's scared of a little shock? | 19:11 |
| rm_you | luke-jr: well, me, *now* | 19:11 |
| luke-jr | I used to electrocute myself with AC for fun | 19:11 |
| crashanddie | air conditioning? cool | 19:11 |
| rm_you | lol | 19:11 |
| luke-jr | AC power, idiot | 19:12 |
| RST38h | Living dangerously? =) | 19:12 |
| crashanddie | anonymous coward power? | 19:12 |
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| luke-jr | building up immunity for the inevitable electrocution? :P | 19:12 |
| rm_you | Air Conditioning is usually written A/C for some reason | 19:12 |
| javispedro | hm... anonymous coward power... | 19:12 |
| rm_you | not sure why | 19:12 |
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| luke-jr | Alternating Current, in case you really don't know... | 19:12 |
| * RST38h had burns for three months after trying to fix an oscilloscope power plug, without unplugging the other end of the cable | 19:12 | |
| luke-jr | RST38h: O.o | 19:13 |
| crashanddie | if slashdot could harness AC power they'd never have to pay for energy bills ever again | 19:13 |
| rm_you | heh | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: perhaps my power source was filtered in some way | 19:13 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: lol | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | it was the two knobs at the top of an electronics kit... | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | I'd attach wires to them | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | then lick my fingers and grab the wire ends | 19:13 |
| rm_you | yeah, though i think the charge in the transformer in like, a CRT monitor for instance, is way more dangerous than just the average AC outlet | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | I suppose the wire gagues might have limited current | 19:13 |
| crashanddie | "oh, we're losing power, quick, release an article about ${OS}" (where ${OS} equals Linux/OSX/Windows) | 19:13 |
| RST38h | luke-jr: You may have had a low-current protection installed | 19:14 |
| lcuk | or hes composed entirely of playdoh | 19:14 |
| rm_you | it's amperage that can actually kill you, not voltage, right? | 19:14 |
| RST38h | goood idea | 19:14 |
| crashanddie | rm_you: correct | 19:14 |
| RST38h | rm_you: yes, except that given the same resistance, twice the voltage will give twice the amperage | 19:14 |
| * rm_you wants to be an engineer. sometimes. usually weekends after payday. | 19:15 | |
| RST38h | rm_you: luke probably had 110V, I had 220V :) | 19:15 |
| luke-jr | heh | 19:15 |
| luke-jr | yeah, 110 I imagine | 19:15 |
| RST38h | If you want to be really wikipedian, you should also take into account the power source characteristics | 19:15 |
| crashanddie | who on earth really wants to be a wikipedian? | 19:15 |
| RST38h | But we can safely ignore that with plain vanilla power outlets | 19:15 |
| javispedro | so, does being an engineer imply some electrocutions, or does having an electrocution imply being an engineer someday? | 19:15 |
| rm_you | gah gotta run to lunch | 19:15 |
| crashanddie | javispedro: neither | 19:16 |
| rm_you | i'd guess the former | 19:16 |
| RST38h | javis: Depends on which engineer you wanna be | 19:16 |
| rm_you | the latter would make for a better joke tho :P | 19:16 |
| rm_you | anywho, i'm out | 19:16 |
| rm_you | bbl | 19:16 |
| javispedro | :) | 19:16 |
| RST38h | javis: Civil engineering implies being crushed under some heavy duty solids | 19:16 |
| RST38h | javis: Electrical engineering implies soldering iron burns and some electrocution | 19:16 |
| RST38h | javis: Nuclear engineering ... well you get my drift | 19:17 |
| javispedro | lol. | 19:17 |
| * RST38h suddenly thinks of Social Engineering | 19:17 | |
| * javispedro did too. | 19:17 | |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: nuclear engineer problably means you'll never talk about it with your kids | 19:26 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: surprisingly, not | 19:27 |
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| RST38h | crashanddie: there was an epic thread once, with a physicist dealing with nuclear non-proliferation explaining to forum geeks how A-bomb works. In detail. | 19:28 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: most of this stuff is not secret any more, you just need to read a proper book | 19:28 |
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| crashanddie | and software engineer probably means that you will start dating not based on looks or attraction, but more probably simply because the number of prospects is starting to get slimmer by the year | 19:29 |
| RST38h | you start dating in software, over the internet? ;) | 19:30 |
| crashanddie | actually, technically speaking, at the moment I'm having a phone affair | 19:30 |
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| RST38h | see? | 19:31 |
| RST38h | switch her to tcp/ip to lower costs! | 19:31 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: oh we're unlimited, no problem there ;) | 19:31 |
| RST38h | hehehe | 19:32 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, hi | 19:44 |
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| genewitch | is there a way to tell the RSS feed reader app that i don't want it to update, refresh, download, or otherwise use 100% of the CPU while i am actually reading the feeds? | 20:06 |
| javispedro | Kill Wi-Fi., | 20:06 |
| genewitch | then it just pops up a window to connect | 20:07 |
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| genewitch | and having it manually update completely breaks the functionality of an RSS feed reader. | 20:08 |
| genewitch | not to mention i have to wait the 2 minutes while it updates | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | does the RSS reader still expire all unread posts when it auto-refreshes, or was that fixed? | 20:10 |
| lizardo | jrocha: hi | 20:11 |
| genewitch | mgedmin: it retains older ones | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | oh, good | 20:11 |
| genewitch | i don't know how many it keeps, it drops older ones off eventually | 20:11 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I'm gonna bother you more on the gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_BUTTON | 20:11 |
| jrocha | :) | 20:11 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, I gotta do the following: hildon.Button((gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT, hildon.BUTTON_ARRANGEMENT_VERTICAL) | 20:12 |
| lizardo | jrocha: if I can help :) | 20:12 |
| jrocha | and while this works | 20:12 |
| jrocha | it is ugly | 20:12 |
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| jrocha | now, I understand that the size is implemented on the gtk part | 20:12 |
| jrocha | but I really think you should consider overriding this behavior so we have: hildon.SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT | 20:13 |
| jrocha | it just makes more sense to people used to work with PyGTK | 20:13 |
| jrocha | imho of course :) | 20:13 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, what are your thought on this, cara? :) | 20:14 |
| lizardo | jrocha: while I agree it makes sense, let me try to show you the other way.... the first argument are somethings like "Gtk sizes for Hildon" the seconde is just arrangement for hildon buttons) | 20:14 |
| lizardo | jrocha: so gtk-enums has sizes for other things that are not just Hildon... | 20:15 |
| lizardo | jrocha: there must be some reason why they put it on gtk-enums on the first place | 20:15 |
| lizardo | and not on something like "hildon-enums.h"... | 20:15 |
| jrocha | lizardo, hmm, I see | 20:16 |
| lizardo | so I *think* this is because you can use these sizes with gtk widgets too | 20:16 |
| genewitch | i certainly hope the n900 + maemo 5 handle such things as the RSS feed reader being responsive... and web pages. | 20:16 |
| lizardo | jrocha: and not use hildon at all, but still have hildon sized widgets for your gtk app | 20:16 |
| jrocha | lizardo, that seems understandable, yet weird | 20:17 |
| jrocha | lizardo, because even if one wants to use a hildon size, they should get it from hildon thinking theoretically | 20:17 |
| crashanddie | lmao | 20:17 |
| crashanddie | I just unleashed my bullshit generator | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | I was asked by my boss to justify why I need to spend 2 weeks in the US | 20:18 |
| AStorm | jrocha: no, that would only add porting burden | 20:18 |
| jrocha | lizardo, about hildon implementing it that way, maybe it was for convenience (more easy to assign sizes this way) | 20:18 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: yes, but in this case, the application would depend on any hildon libs (although the changes to gtk-enums.h are only on Maemo? not sure) | 20:18 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, so, the case would be that one maybe wants to use hildon sizes where they don't have hildon libs available? seems weird | 20:19 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: anyway, the reasoning behind it is : there are various Gtk sizes (that can be used anywhere were you want those sizes and not use hardcoded constants), the hildon sizes just happen to be some of them | 20:20 |
| jrocha | lizardo, yes | 20:20 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, and it is easy to use, I was just discussing whether it makes sense or not | 20:20 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: I'm no gtk programmer :( but I think this can be asked on the Hildon mailing list , if they have some reasoning, the same would apply for the binding... but if you look at a C code, you would ask the same question: why GTK_HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT and not HILDON_GTK_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT ?) | 20:22 |
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| genewitch | wouldn't it be because GTK is the base library and hildon is just a library that happens to use GTK? | 20:25 |
| crashanddie | lizardo: so that people would actually start using IDEs with code completion | 20:25 |
| jrocha | _berto_, any comments on this? | 20:25 |
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| lizardo | crashanddie: well, you can use code completion for hildon things too , I suppose :) | 20:26 |
| _berto_ | it's HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_SIZE | 20:27 |
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| _berto_ | and that enum wasn't originally meant to be in gtk | 20:27 |
| _berto_ | but we had to move it | 20:27 |
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| lizardo | _berto_: hmm, that might change the reasoning I was explainer before :) | 20:28 |
| lizardo | explaining* | 20:28 |
| _berto_ | when we move people were already using it, so we had to keep the values | 20:28 |
| lizardo | _berto_: so, just to makes things clear: HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_SIZE is a hildon specific thing, but kept in gtk-enums.h only for historical reasons? | 20:29 |
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| _berto_ | lizardo: not for historial reasons, but also because it's used in maemo-gtk | 20:29 |
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| _berto_ | it could have been named HILDON_GTK_... if that's what you ask | 20:30 |
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| lizardo | _berto_: no no, we were discussing how to have it in python | 20:31 |
| _berto_ | ah | 20:31 |
| _berto_ | :) | 20:31 |
| lizardo | _berto_: as part of the "gtk" module or of the "hildon" module | 20:31 |
| jrocha | _berto_, I was telling them that imo it should be hildon's | 20:31 |
| _berto_ | jrocha: it's part of maemo-gtk actually | 20:31 |
| _berto_ | it's used in maemo-gtk | 20:31 |
| lizardo | _berto_: because as it was in gtk-enums.h it seemed "logical" to have it in the gtk module | 20:31 |
| _berto_ | and the api is in maemo-gtk | 20:31 |
| _berto_ | yes, maemo-gtk has a few things specific to maemo | 20:32 |
| _berto_ | this is one of them | 20:32 |
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| _berto_ | there's also the tap-and-hold signal, etc | 20:32 |
| lizardo | _berto_: I wonder where is this maemo-gtk project? I could find it only at stage.maemo.org | 20:32 |
| _berto_ | lizardo: yes, that's the official repo | 20:32 |
| lizardo | _berto_: but is it part of the official diablo/fremantle releases, or a community project? | 20:33 |
| _berto_ | lizardo: it's official | 20:33 |
| _berto_ | lizardo: it's the branch of gtk that comes with maemo | 20:33 |
| lizardo | _berto_: hmm, I see, so the gtk we have on the devices come from this maemo-gtk branch? | 20:34 |
| jrocha | yes, everytime you "import gtk" | 20:34 |
| _berto_ | yes | 20:34 |
| _berto_ | (sorry, telephone) | 20:34 |
| wazd | hehe. sometimes to know English is so cool :) | 20:35 |
| lizardo | _berto_, jrocha : in this case , maybe having the HILDON_SIZE_* symbols in gtk still makes sence, if you think that we are actually talking about maemo-gtk ... IMHO | 20:35 |
| lizardo | given that it is part of the maemo-gtk API and not on the Hildon API | 20:35 |
| wazd | I have a neighbour from GB, he tried to tell me that the elevator is not working in russian | 20:35 |
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| javispedro | "The browser is Mozilla’s Fennec Fox, but in future, users will have the options to use firefox on their N900." sigh. | 20:36 |
| _berto_ | lizardo: well, we try to keep maemo-gtk as close to upstream gtk as possible | 20:36 |
| _berto_ | lizardo: but a few things have to be changed | 20:36 |
| jrocha | lizardo, well, now that we know the whole story, it makes sense, from the implementation part | 20:36 |
| wazd | When I said "You can speak English" his face showed sch a relief :D | 20:36 |
| lizardo | jrocha: note that I not completely sold on this , but what I need to avoid is having inconsistences between what we provide as gtk/hildon modules and how the actual underlying API is... | 20:36 |
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| * ShadowJK discovers diablo's "hung app" protection is broken | 20:37 | |
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| lizardo | "I need" -> "We need" :) | 20:37 |
| jrocha | lizardo, of couse | 20:37 |
| jrocha | course* | 20:37 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I understand | 20:37 |
| _berto_ | lizardo: understood | 20:37 |
| _berto_ | :) | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | I manually stopped a game by sending it the STOP signal. The hildon UI hung. No "blah blah not responding" dialog appeared even after 10 minutes | 20:37 |
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| * ShadowJK logged in through ssh and sent -CONT to the game, and everything came back to life | 20:38 | |
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| jrocha | lizardo, my suggestions were only because when I code with Hildon, I don't really know where does the HILDON_SIZE... comes from but on Python it seemed to cripple the reading, when one sees: gtk.HILDON_SIZE... | 20:39 |
| jrocha | lizardo, but now that I understand the whole story it's okay, and I won't bug you anymore :) | 20:39 |
| lizardo | jrocha: yeah , it is a namespace issue , I would say :) | 20:39 |
| lizardo | jrocha: because in C you don't have namespaces, so everything you #include is kind of global :) | 20:40 |
| jrocha | lizardo, yes | 20:40 |
| lizardo | jrocha: if that helps, you could use from gtk import HILDON_SIZE... | 20:40 |
| jrocha | lizardo, last line of "import this": Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! :D | 20:40 |
| lizardo | jrocha: would even make some calls smaller :) | 20:40 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I know how to manipulate the imports, but of course, that's not a good practice | 20:41 |
| jrocha | if I import * from gtk and then use a Button... who knows where the hell that button comes from | 20:41 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: well, I tend to use some from ... import ... where the code becomes easier to read :) (following the Python zen) | 20:42 |
| jrocha | and we should not mess with Python's readability or else Guido is summoned by the interpreter and punches you in the nose :) | 20:42 |
| lizardo | jrocha: "from import *" is like using C's #include ... IMHO :) | 20:43 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, I use from import * mainly when I refer to a module of mine | 20:44 |
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| jrocha | and I know it ain't like I'm gonna have a Button class lying around | 20:45 |
| lizardo | jrocha: I agree, makes sense when you are splitting code into different files for modularity | 20:45 |
| jrocha | alright, back to work, nice to talk with you and finally get this issue clarified | 20:45 |
| lizardo | jrocha: but using from gtk import XXX where XXX is a list of some specific often used symbols does not hurt IMHO :) | 20:46 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: ok, feel free to ask other python specific question on #pymaemo too, its too quiet there | 20:46 |
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| Macer | ugh | 20:47 |
| Macer | android sucks so badly | 20:47 |
| Macer | i need an n900 | 20:47 |
| javispedro | who doesn't :) | 20:47 |
| javispedro | and why does everybody keep insisting it does have a compass? :P | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't. I need two! | 20:48 |
| Macer | i need to take this g1 and run it over with a car | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: It helps with AR apps | 20:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: If you know exactly which way you're pointing, and where you are - you know what's in front of you | 20:48 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: which I consider a fad. But even then, it does _not_ have one :P | 20:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: especially handy - IMO - for geotagged photos - for example for openstreetmap | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | But - that is probably admittedly a niche use. | 20:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, I though you loved Android. | 20:49 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: but that is one useful use. | 20:49 |
| javispedro | :) | 20:49 |
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| Macer | GeneralAntilles: android itself is ok | 20:49 |
| Macer | the apps suck | 20:49 |
| Macer | then again | 20:49 |
| Macer | android sucks | 20:49 |
| Macer | heh | 20:49 |
| Macer | using maemo4 is a much better experience | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: AR - ... There are few compelling apps yet. | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | None? | 20:50 |
| Macer | i wish i could get maemo5 on the g1 | 20:50 |
| Macer | that would be so awesome | 20:50 |
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| Macer | it would be like a poor man's n900 | 20:50 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: and even then, I don't see neither myself nor my parents nor my grandma using that. | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: The killer app hasn't really arrived. | 20:51 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: It would clearly be good for tourist map type stuff | 20:51 |
| Macer | you have tp wait for the n900gs | 20:51 |
| ShadowJK | I want a gyro! | 20:51 |
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| Macer | for the compass | 20:51 |
| ShadowJK | N900i ;) | 20:52 |
| Macer | ShadowJK: get one then | 20:52 |
| Macer | heh | 20:52 |
| javispedro | the risk of me being run over by a car is already way too high just with the gps | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | Macer, I mean I want 4 of them, in the device | 20:52 |
| Macer | oh | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: this is why you need AR. | 20:52 |
| Macer | thought you meant the food | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | 'STOP LOOKING AT ME - RUN!' | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | there's a good called gyro? | 20:52 |
| Macer | ;) | 20:52 |
| ShadowJK | a food* | 20:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Gyroscope | 20:52 |
| Macer | compass rotates maps also doesnt it? | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, no way it'll fit in less than 640x480. | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | silicon chip gyros are expensive | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe $15 for 3 axis in volume | 20:53 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: maemo5? | 20:53 |
| Macer | really? | 20:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | Compared to $.8 maybe for the accellerometer | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not in its current state, anyway. | 20:53 |
| Macer | needs that high of a res? | 20:53 |
| Macer | heh | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | (and maybe $3 for compasses) | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sure somebody could brow beat it, but it likely wouldn't work well. | 20:53 |
| javispedro | were to choose, I would select the compass instead of the gyro | 20:53 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: doesnt matter | 20:53 |
| ShadowJK | gyro+accelerometers would be perfect for stabilising and augmenting the dodgy data you get from gps&compass though | 20:54 |
| Macer | g1 will never see maemo5 on it | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, oh I want both compass and gyros | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - gyro will drop in price though | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | and accel, and gps | 20:54 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: I want a 24 hour battery. | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: it's starting to see the sort of exponential price drop you saw with accelerometers. | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | ShadowJK, I have one | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | uh | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, I have one | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I WANT A CAKE PONY! | 20:54 |
| javispedro | :P :) | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Which now they're sprayed into everything get cheaper. | 20:54 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, unfortunately it's installed in my car! | 20:54 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Remove it, and place in backpack | 20:55 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Voila - days of active use. | 20:55 |
| Macer | haha | 20:55 |
| javispedro | bah :P | 20:55 |
| Macer | nothing beats going to the suit case era | 20:55 |
| ShadowJK | You could use the accel to detect when user has put phone down on table or wherever, and when it's still, you can get an accurate-ish compass reading, and accurate-ish reading from accelerometers to determine your direction, and calibrate gyros to that | 20:56 |
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| javispedro | doesn't the compass need calibration too? | 20:56 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - this is all nice - but you _still_ can't do inertial navigation very well. | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | indications you're not using enough time with the wife: she starts faking extreme power surges with the living room lamp | 20:56 |
| javispedro | instead of entering power save, it would enter power hungry mode. | 20:56 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, I don't want to do inertial navigation | 20:56 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: huh? | 20:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Why not - it's cool! | 20:57 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, well, I do, but only for a second at a time | 20:57 |
| Macer | she didnt really do that did she? | 20:57 |
| ShadowJK | in between gps updates basically | 20:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - it'd be so nice if you could get free of GPS - from indoors | 20:57 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: arebt you still a newlywed? | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: sure, month day today :P | 20:57 |
| Macer | you should still be having sex every 5 minutes | 20:58 |
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| Macer | get off the computer crap and go have sex | 20:58 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, I doubt it'd be accurate enough to answer "am I still inside the building?" with 50% confidence for more than a few minutes :) | 20:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: it's not. | 20:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Of the order of a centimeter a second a second error | 20:58 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, for indoor positioning we need UWB or the magic pony-GPS luke was talking about | 20:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Or image processing | 20:59 |
| ShadowJK | ugh | 20:59 |
| aol | wlan positioning | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is horrible | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | But just about doable | 20:59 |
| ShadowJK | cellphone bill for my stay in germany just dropped in. 200Euro :-( | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 20:59 |
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| ShadowJK | 60 megs of data :) | 21:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | You were there half an hour? | 21:01 |
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| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, 10 days | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | that's 6 megabytes of intarwebs a day! | 21:11 |
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| Robot101 | where does the hildon theme that comes with the sdk live? | 21:37 |
| fiferboy | /usr/share/themes/Default/ | 21:38 |
| Robot101 | I mean, its source or repo or whatever | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: you diddn't get a german SIM - or are the german rates that bad? | 21:41 |
| fiferboy | Robot101: hildon-theme-alpha is the package name, I think | 21:42 |
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| fiferboy | Hmm, maybe alpha is a different one. I'm not sure if the theme is available anywhere as a package, | 21:43 |
| fiferboy | Everything you need should be in /usr/share/themes/Default though | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | The theme isn't free like Plankton was in Diablo | 21:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | and I can't see it in non-free so I'm guessing it's in nokia-binaries | 21:44 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, hi again | 22:03 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, how can use a HildonFileChooserDialog? | 22:04 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: ok, you are hitting the "non-documented" edges of python-hildon :) | 22:05 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: you need to pass it a filesystem model, let me find the usage example: | 22:05 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, I think it is very common to want to use a file chooser :) | 22:05 |
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| jrocha | I C hildon I only need to arguments but the python one keeps asking me for 3 args | 22:06 |
| lizardo | jrocha: take a look at : https://garage.maemo.org/svn/pymaemo/packages/python-hildon/trunk/tests/test_hildon_file_chooser_dialog.py | 22:06 |
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| jrocha | oh, ok | 22:07 |
| jrocha | nice | 22:07 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: yes, but in C you must pass a model too, I think in the constructor | 22:07 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: I tried it in C, I remember it asserted somewhere | 22:07 |
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| jrocha | probably | 22:08 |
| jrocha | anyway, I'll check that, so | 22:08 |
| jrocha | thanks | 22:08 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: no prob :) just to let you know, regarding file chooser, I had a hard time implementing support for it because the API docs didn't mention the file system model is required in fremantle (IIRC) | 22:10 |
| lizardo | jrocha: so I had to dig some API usage examples to find the correct usage :) | 22:10 |
| lizardo | jrocha: in C, I mean | 22:10 |
| jrocha | lizardo, yes, the file chooser can be a little obscure | 22:11 |
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| thp | how do I add a button to the titlebar of a window in fremantle? | 22:45 |
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| RST38h | you can't, can you? | 22:46 |
| thp | i think i've seen screenshots where there was a button in the titlebar | 22:47 |
| thp | I've found the thread.. http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg19687.html | 22:48 |
| thp | looks like it's a dirty hack ;) | 22:50 |
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| oo | can someone PLEASE help me run a simple HelloMIDlet in maemo? | 23:25 |
| oo | already tried jalimo/cacao/midpath/phoneme but no suceess running a cldc midp software | 23:26 |
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| MrGoose | oo: you sound desperate | 23:27 |
| MrGoose | oo: I cant help though; not my know how | 23:27 |
| oo | just a little frustrated | 23:27 |
| oo | nvm thanks anyway xD | 23:28 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 23:33 |
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| PinkKroliczeK | sorry | 23:44 |
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| PinkKroliczeK | some can help me with b-man sources list? | 23:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | Mhh. The N900 looks really sweet. | 23:51 |
| Shapeshifter | really, really sweet. | 23:51 |
| PinkKroliczeK | Who can help me with my n810 here maybe? | 23:51 |
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| javispedro | hm. people already dumping their n810s in ebay | 23:54 |
| javispedro | might as well get another one and hang it on the wall ;P | 23:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Obviously not into Mer, then :> | 23:55 |
| johnsq | javispedro: why? its usable for too much things, if cheap | 23:55 |
| javispedro | I'm serious with haging it on the wall, then leave it as a p2p machine, router, or always on server | 23:55 |
| Shapeshifter | I never had a proper phone, using a 10 buck LG that can do SMS >.> I think I want one. I'm wondering what kind of phone. Not an iphone, and no windows. Looked at the HTC hero, looks better now with the updated rom. But should I wait for an N900? | 23:56 |
| johnsq | photoframe, file server ... | 23:56 |
| Shapeshifter | I bet it's going to be ages until it comes to Switzerland -.- | 23:56 |
| PinkKroliczeK | javispedro: i like my 810 :) | 23:57 |
| javispedro | yeah. couldn't live without it right now. :) | 23:57 |
| PinkKroliczeK | just for call i use inq for me is verry good :> | 23:58 |
| javispedro | why does everybody use the n800 as a dev board? | 23:59 |
| Shapeshifter | mhhh... how long does the battery go on an 810? | 23:59 |
| Shapeshifter | says here 10 days | 23:59 |
| Shapeshifter | that would be amazing | 23:59 |
| javispedro | I'm looking at some of the ARM RVCT propaganda and they have a photo with a bastardized n800 | 23:59 |
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| javispedro | plus the vmware demo not too much ago | 23:59 |
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