IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-09-14

crashanddie_and that we'll have to use those clues to find whatever the pharma company is after00:00
zerojayThey are the modern knights templar.00:00
crashanddie_there's some chinese references on the walls, as well as american (as in, native american) and stuff00:01
crashanddie_so I'm guessing we'll be using the animus to go back to probably several different eras in time00:01
zerojayAnimus 2.0's... Heh... Interesting.00:02
crashanddie_medieval china would be cool, cool buildings and loads of details to climb on, also, sword would make sense00:02
zerojayIf you liked ac1, ac2 will make you happier.00:02
crashanddie_maya didn't really use swords that much00:02
crashanddie_but will have to see00:02
crashanddie_I just hope they don't go the ancient egypt way00:03
zerojayThere was an analyst claiming he knew ac2 was french revolution.00:03
zerojayI had a big laugh at that bs.00:03
RST38hyou hopeless virtual tourists00:03
crashanddie_that would be pretty boring00:03
RST38hwhen have you played an actually FUN game last time?00:04
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Stskeepsand bubble bobble!00:04
crashanddie_RST38h, I told her to yell out of the window everytime I spanked her, that was fun00:04
zerojayFun's different to everyone.00:04
qwerty12_N810crashanddie_: blow-up dolls don't speak00:04
RST38hvirtual tourism stopped being fun somewhere around quake300:05
crashanddie_qwerty12_N810, how many chicks gave you their numbers at 1.0?00:05
zerojayVirtual tourism?00:05
crashanddie_onedotzero in London00:06
qwerty12_N810I didn't hang around00:06
crashanddie_qwerty12_N810, you should've00:06
RST38hzerojay: that is when they give you a gun and let you wonder around some 3d world or another beating baddies00:08
Stskeepswhy did i read that as ladies?00:08
RST38hSts: Shrink to the rescue!00:09
crashanddie_i read that "being given a gun and let you wander around some 3rd world country"00:09
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Dantonichey small question, I'm logged into my ubuntu box through ssh.  what is the command to copy file and folders from the box to my NIT?  thought it was "get boxpath NITpath" isnt that correct?00:16
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crashanddie_Dantonic, no00:19
crashanddie_Dantonic, no need to be connected through SSH first00:19
crashanddie_Dantonic, what you can do is: scp username@host:/path/to/file/name.ext /path/to/where/to/put/it/on/your/NIT00:19
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DantonicI see, how would I use that command if I wanted to copy a whole directory?00:20
Dantonica folder00:20
crashanddie_Dantonic, what you can do is: scp -r username@host:/path/to/directory /path/to/where/to/put/it/on/your/NIT00:21
DantonicI see -r for recursive?00:21
crashanddie_or if on your desktop to your nit: scp -r /path/to/directory username@host:/path/to/destination00:21
crashanddie_Dantonic, also, man scp00:21
Dantoniccool well but what if I'm in through ssh because I'm browsing the folders, let's say I dont know what I need until I see it and I'm in that directory, how do I copy while logged in? same way?00:22
crashanddie_Dantonic, read00:23
crashanddie_Dantonic, I gave you the solution already00:23
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Dantonicdamn says "permission" denied on my local path00:29
Dantoniccrashanddie_, I'm using /MyDocs as my local path00:29
DantonicI need sudo maybe?00:31
lardmanwhat are you doing?00:31
Dantonicjust trying to copy from my ubuntu box to my NIT00:32
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Dantonictrying to login from my nit00:32
Dantoniccrashanddie_, suggested an scp command00:32
lardmanfile transfer then?00:32
Dantonicah it worked with sudo00:32
DantonicI used  scp -r username@host:/path/to/directory /path/to/where/to/put/it/on/your/NIT00:32
lardmanI'd use sftp, but scp should also work00:32
Dantonicit did...00:33
Dantoniclardman,  maybe you know, if I'm logged in through ssh from my N800 to the desktop, and browsing files, and I want to copy some files to my N800 would I use the same scp command?00:33
lardmanhmm, no idea, haven't used scp for years00:34
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johnxDantonic, so you want to run scp on the desktop or the n800?00:36
Dantonichey johnx I'm only using the N80000:37
Dantonicjust wondering if I'm logged in through ssh00:37
Dantonicbrowsing my desktops file system00:37
Dantonicand I want to copy some files or a directory to my N80000:37
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Dantonicdo I still use scp command?00:37
Dantonicor just cp?00:37
johnxyeah, but in that case you'd be executing the scp command on your desktop00:38
ShellEvilscp is for remote use00:38
Dantonicah ok00:38
johnxie: you're telling your desktop "run scp"00:38
Dantonicso to copy I would just do what? cp -r direcotry/path user@N800:/path ?00:38
johnxso you'd say: scp file.jpg user@192.168.1.x:/home/user/MyDocs/00:38
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johnxbeing logged into your desktop with ssh is *exactly* the same as actually sitting at it00:39
Dantonicyah with scp, but if I'm logged into ssh and browsing the desktops file directory, is there a way to just copy while logged into the desktop?00:39
Dantonicah I see00:39
Dantonicaaaaah ok00:39
johnxhowever, in that case: sftp or gftp are good commands to use00:39
Dantonicso it would just be the inverse command00:39
Dantonicoh how do those work?00:39
johnxyou have gftp, right?00:40
timeless_mbpjohnx: depends one whether or not audio works :)00:40
johnxtimeless_mbp, hmm?00:40
DantonicI have gftp client installed on my NIT, and I was trying to figure out how to setup a server on my desktop... but I'm guessing I don't need that do I to just transfer files :P00:40
johnxDantonic, you already *have* a server setup if you can ssh to your desktop :P00:40
timeless_mbpjohnx: ssh isn't a perfect equivalent :)00:40
DantonicI'm not very familiar with ftp00:40
timeless_mbpDantonic: basically if you can establish an ssh connection, you can establish an scp or sftp connection00:41
johnxtimeless_mbp, I appreciate the nit picking, but I'm talking in generalities for the time being00:41
timeless_mbpthey use the same handshake00:41
timeless_mbpand nearly identical argument00:41
Dantonictimeless, johnx could you give me a sample usage of the ftp command?00:41
Dantonicwhy use one over the other?00:42
johnxDantonic, have you ever used ftp on the command line?00:42
timeless_mbpscp is for single instance transactions00:42
Dantonicjohnx,  never00:42
timeless_mbpsftp is for multiple transactions + directory browsing00:42
johnxDantonic, how about I walk you through how to use gftp00:42
timeless_mbpssh is for generic remote command execution00:42
johnxI think you'll like it00:42
Dantonicsure if you don't mind!00:42
johnxno prob, let me reboot into maemo :)00:43
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esaym153Are any of the third party web browsers better than the default one?00:45
esaym153The default one seems slow and eats ram...00:45
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esaym153hmm, I will try it out00:45
johnxit's pretty awesome really00:45
johnxand try using it with the "iphone" versions of websites if you want even more speed and slickness00:46
* timeless_mbp sighs00:46
timeless_mbpthat's unfair00:46
Dantonicidk I still prefer MicroB... Tear works nicely, but it's still not 100% compatible with some sites... there are hangups here and there...00:46
timeless_mbpthe default browser appreciates iPhone pages as much as any other mobile browser00:46
johnxDantonic, alright, got gftp in front of me00:46
Dantonicbut it is fast!00:46
esaym153what is the browserd process that is always running i the background? If I install tear should I try to kill that process?00:46
Dantonicok johnx00:46
DantonicI have it open as well00:46
timeless_mbpesaym153: browserd is the actual browser engine00:47
johnxesaym153, just enable swap and let it get swapped out when it's not needed. easy :)00:47
timeless_mbpthe browser process is just the user interface00:47
johnxDantonic, alright, click the "two computers" icon in the center00:47
esaym153how to get to iphone pages?00:47
timeless_mbpesaym153: sadly, that depends on the server :)00:47
esaym153that .mobi stuff?00:47
johnxDantonic, put in your ubuntu box's IP address00:47
johnxfor the port: 2200:47
esaym153so tear is just an interface on top of broswerd?00:48
johnxfor the user: the user on your ubuntu box00:48
timeless_mbptear is its own browser00:48
timeless_mbpiirc tear uses webkit00:48
johnxDantonic, and where it says "FTP" pull down the box and find SSH200:49
johnxthen hit connect00:49
esaym153so I could do away with browserd then...00:49
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timeless_mbpesaym153: if you want to break your device00:49
johnxand timeless_mbp. not fair? hmm?00:49
timeless_mbpthere are lots of things you could do00:49
timeless_mbpthat would be one of them00:49
esaym153oh ...00:49
Dantonicoh already clicked with "ftp" option johnx00:49
Dantonicit's trying to connect00:49
* qwerty12_N810 doesn't bother with having browserd started up on this N81000:49
Dantonicjohnx, will the ftp option not work?00:49
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: what do you do for the feed reader app? :)00:49
johnxDantonic, it won't. you have an ssh server on your desktop, not an ftp server00:50
timeless_mbpDantonic: ftp is both a concept and a specific protocol00:50
johnxDantonic, first get ssh working, then if the speed is really a problem, you can try ftp00:50
timeless_mbpas a specific protocol, it's absolutely insecure and in general should never be running anywhere except for read only access to resources00:50
Dantonicall right connecting00:51
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I used to use its "copy link" function but someone made a Python script that forwards the load_url/open_new_window DBus messages to Tear00:51
Dantonictimeless_mbp,  you mean ftp in insecure?00:51
timeless_mbpDantonic: the classic ftp protocol sends login credentials in the clear00:51
johnxDantonic, what you're doing is something like "ftp over ssh" which is quite secure if you don't share your passwords :)00:51
Dantonicok...  still "connecting" btw00:52
timeless_mbpjohnx: why isn't it labeled sftp?00:52
timeless_mbpiirc sftp is not technically related to ftp as protocols go00:52
johnxprobably true00:52
johnxask the author?00:52
johnxDantonic, so you specified ssh2 from the dropdown and 22 for the port?00:53
johnxand it's still taking forever to connect?00:53
qwerty12_N810Honestly, the best MicroB experience I ever had was in Chinook with its browserd-less MicroB and the microb-engine packages from SVN00:53
Dantonicjohnx, that's correct I'm trying again00:53
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: the best experience i've had is on the n900 :)00:53
Dantonicjohnx, the first one timed out00:54
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I keep making it zoom by accident :(00:54
lardmananyone tried the example Fremantle camera code on the SDK?00:54
timeless_mbpqwerty12_N810: better than accidentally deleting 100 messages from your mailbox00:54
* timeless_mbp did that a few hours ago00:54
Dantonicjohnx, still nothing :( do I have to install ssh2?00:55
Dantonicor is it the same as just ssh?00:55
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: ouch :\00:55
timeless_mbpand there's no undo00:55
timeless_mbpsince it was my spam folder :(00:55
timeless_mbpi was trying to select a message which wasn't spam00:55
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: and this is why I keep my maildir in Git00:55
johnxDantonic, ok, so let's review. you can run this on your n800: ssh dantonic@192.168.1.x00:55
johnxwhere x is your IP00:56
timeless_mbpluke-jr: and how big is your maildir?00:56
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: the Git repo or the maildir itself?00:56
timeless_mbpYou are currently using 5597 MB (75%) of your 7369 MB.00:56
timeless_mbpluke-jr: i don't think it really matters :)00:56
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johnxso I'd type: ssh john@
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timeless_mbpas formats go, i think git would be an incredibly stupid format00:57
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: 616,735 messages in ~300 folders, 6.9 GB disk space00:57
johnxso in gftp I put for IP00:57
johnxjohn for user00:57
johnx22 for port00:57
johnxand pull down to ssh200:57
Dantonicjohnx, ya trying again in terminal just to make sure00:57
Dantonicgive me a minute00:57
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: Git repo is 3.9 GB00:57
johnxhmm, for mail backups, rsnapshot of a maildir should work nicely00:57
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: Pushed git repo is 2.9 GB00:58
Dantonicyup just logged in through terminal johnx00:58
luke-jrjohnx: git ftw00:58
timeless_mbpluke-jr: so...00:58
timeless_mbpyou're basically wasting 3gb of space00:58
timeless_mbpmaking your mailbox bigger than mine00:58
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: backups are not waste00:58
timeless_mbpbut only for overhead you can't possibly use in any remotely reasonable manner00:58
Dantonicjohnx, under host I put ONLY the ip? or also the
timeless_mbpluke-jr: zfs snapshot could be useful00:58
johnxDantonic, only IP00:58
timeless_mbpgit is not useful00:58
Dantonicok that's what I had done johnx00:59
johnxand the 22 is necessary for Port00:59
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: of course it is00:59
luke-jrthe overhead is minimal00:59
timeless_mbpgit assumes you have some benefit from sequential access to changes to your mailbox00:59
luke-jrand it is smaller than a simple copy backup00:59
timeless_mbpwhich you aren't going to have00:59
timeless_mbpzfs snapshot otoh lets you randomly drop versions you no longer need -- *safely*00:59
Dantonicjohnx,  its loggin on I see different messages now00:59
DantonicI think it'll work :P01:00
Dantonicnot sure what was wrong before johnx  but it worked this time01:00
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: as I never delete emails, it is irrelevant to me01:00
DantonicI see the file system :)01:00
luke-jrthe overhead is minimal, and I get live backups01:00
timeless_mbpso you're basically wasting 3gb of data for nothing01:00
timeless_mbpeven better01:00
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luke-jrif my mail server gets bombed, I can still restore the mailbox within 2 minutes01:00
* timeless_mbp contemplates the math there01:01
johnxDantonic, then you can hit the menu and make yourself a nice bookmark :)01:01
Dantonicyay!!!! johnx thans so much!01:01
johnxDantonic, sure :)01:01
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Dantonichere's another question, would it be horribly difficult to loginto my file system remotely? through the internet?01:02
johnxsee, you thought this would be more difficult than it was :D01:02
DantonicI know that's very easy :P01:02
johnxDantonic, did you get port forwarding working last night?01:02
lardmanrubbish British rail/devolved companies01:02
DantonicI thought I had to use FTP with gFTP :P01:02
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: my script does a git push to my local site about 2 minutes after a change01:02
johnxDantonic, nah, lots of the newer "FTP" clients know about ssh/sftp. Old style unencrypted FTP is going away slowly but surel01:03
qwerty12_N810Dantonic: The first line of its description in the App. manager is: "GTK+ FTP[S]/HTTP[S]/SSH2/FSP client"01:04
Dantonicjohnx, I was never trying to port forward, but I created a static IP address for my box... well basically my router doesnt allow for setting static IPs assigned to mac addresses, so I read somewhere to just assing the static IP on the desktop, and the router will follow suit... so I think I do have a static ip atm because that's how I connected to the dekstop from the N800, and it is between .2-.99 so I know the router isnt assigning a01:04
Dantonicdhcp ip to the desktop01:04
johnxDantonic, ah, good deal01:04
johnxyou might want to read up on how to do port forwarding on your router. it's not that simple, but it's doable01:04
Dantonicqwerty12_N810, ya I know, please excuse my noobness in regards to all this... I'm a very recent Winblows convert still learning what everything means01:05
ShellEvildepending on your router.01:05
ShellEvilSome are broken enough not to add it.01:05
johnxhe's got a WRT54GS :)01:05
ShellEvilThen again - this is a company that doesn't do the GPL.01:05
johnxDantonic, good choice on router, BTW :)01:05
ShellEvil(the broken one)01:05
Dantonicjohnx, I think I've done it before, because I had to do it to play my favorite game of all time... Starcraft01:05
Dantonicbut that was a couple years ago01:05
Dantonicgotta remember how01:05
qwerty12_N810Dantonic: Heh, I still use Windows... :p01:06
Dantonicwell I do to, but in Virtual Box :)01:06
Dantonicfor some progs I need01:06
Dantonicthat don't work with wine01:06
* ShellEvil has a HD he needs to drop into virtualbox.01:07
ShellEvilI accidentally bought a legit copy of windows :/01:07
Dantonicok johnx so what do I need to forward exactly?01:07
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johnxif you search for: port forwarding WRT54GS01:08
Dantonicjohnx, the desktop IP to the actual IP address?01:08
johnxthere are some very good guides01:08
johnxfollow a guide for port forwarding for bittorrent, but replace the port numbers with: 2201:09
johnxand just do the rest the same01:09
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Dantonicwell I have a very nice "port forwarding" tab that has port ranges and ip addresses01:10
Dantonicso should I just put the desktop ip for address and what for port range?01:10
johnxsounds good01:10
Dantonicudp or tcp?01:11
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Dantonicall right saved the settings...01:11
Dantonicnow how do I test it?01:11
johnxnow: drive to your local coffee shop01:11
Dantonicwell I can logonto my 3g with the N80001:12
johnxcheater :P01:12
Dantonicok now do I use my dns address?01:13
Dantonicto login?01:13
johnxyou don't :)01:13
johnxuse your router's "internet" IP address01:14
johnxdon't know where it's listed on the Linksys firmware for the WRT54GS01:14
Dantonicgot it on the "status" page01:14
Dantonicport 22 still right?01:14
Dantonicomg johnx I love you you're my new BEST FRIEND!01:16
johnxglad it works for you01:16
johnxwelcome to the future01:16
Dantonicfrom now on any post of yours I see on I will thank no matter what!01:16
johnxuhm, nah01:16
johnxthat's going to far01:16
johnxI'm cranky a lot of the time on talk.maemo.org01:16
RST38hsend him flower basket01:16
johnxjust buy me a beer if I'm in the area01:17
Dantonicvery cool stuff... I knew this was doable, but just thought it was more complicated...01:17
johnxjust take it step by step01:17
johnxand make the simple stuff work first01:17
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Dantonicdamn I need a better password now...01:17
Dantonichow do I change my root password?01:17
johnxon ubuntu?01:18
johnxby default it's not set01:18
Corsacsudo passwd01:18
johnxso *no one* can log in to root01:18
Dantonicwell I set it but its weak01:18
Dantonicok thanks corsac01:18
DantonicI've set a root password on it01:18
johnxand yeah: now that you've opened up ssh to the internet you *will* get random people trying to guess passwords01:18
Dantonicand that's the password it prompts me when logging on through ssh I think...01:18
johnxso make sure *all* the account passwords on your box are good01:19 palB/aw pala01:19
johnxall the users01:19
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DantonicI only have on password :/01:19
Dantonicah ok01:19
Dantonicthat's just one01:19
johnxbut you set the root password as well?01:19
Dantonicidk I just set one password, and I know everytime I access some progs or use sudo it asks me for it01:20
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DantonicI set it when I installed01:20
Dantonicis that the root passwd?01:20
johnxthat's your user password01:20
johnxso you type: sudo whoami01:20
johnxand put in that password and it says root, right?01:20
Dantonicyes it does01:21
johnxbut there's also a real "root" password that let's you type: su -01:21
johnxso try su -01:21
johnxand see if you can type the same password and have it accept it01:21
Dantonicauthentication failure01:21
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johnxno root password set01:22
Dantonichmm so I can't even access it?01:22
johnxthat's probably the "right thing" (tm)01:22
johnxyes, you can, but you use your "user" password01:22
johnxonly one password, means only one password you have to remember01:22
johnxso make it twice as hard to guess :>01:22
DantonicI see01:23
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Dantonicya I definitely ahve to change it... what can you do with a root password what would you need that for?01:23
johnxyou don't on ubuntu01:23
johnxit just allows you to "directly" login to root01:23
Dantonicah ok but sudo replaces that01:23
DantonicI mean sudo allows you to do everything...01:23
Dantonicjohnx, what OS do you run?01:24
johnxit's just a two step process: 1) login as dantonic 2) sudo01:24
johnxubuntu on the desktop01:24
johnxand maemo4 and/or mer on the n80001:24
Dantoniclet me ask you... I have a problem... cant resolve it...
johnxno idea01:25
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johnxsuspend has always been flakey on some hardware01:25
johnxI just don't suspend my desktop01:25
johnxthat's probably some real kernel level debugging01:25
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DantonicI see01:25
Dantonicjust wondering if you had the same problem01:25
johnxI might if I tried to suspend :)01:25
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DantonicI was very used to suspend01:26
Dantonicnow I shutdown every time :(01:26
johnxdesktop is on 24/7 here since it serves files for the whole network01:26
johnxbut I also figure out in advance: 1) what do I need to work in ubuntu 2) given that what hardware do I need to buy01:26
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DantonicI see so you go off of a compatible hardware list or something?01:27
Dantonicis there such a list?01:27
johnxDantonic, I just do some research with google01:27
DantonicI'm actually getting close to building a new box...01:27
DantonicI'll look into that01:27 <==== write these guys and ask them to port!!!01:27
johnxhey Firebird :) saw your game. looks very nice, hopefully I'll get a chance to try it out later01:27
johnxoh, while we're talking 3D, anyone see WebGL in webkit :)01:28
johnxlooks kinda interesting01:28
Firebirdheh, thanks johnx01:28
RST38hnot yet01:28
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johnxwith a GL->GLES wrapper, it might be workable on the pandora/n900/touchbook01:29
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johnxthat'd be pretty amazing01:29
johnxanyways, gotta change the spark plugs on my car while it's still light out01:30
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Dantonicgtg to work thanks again johnx01:37
lardmannight all01:39
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rm_youjohnx: ping02:03
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rm_youGAN800: you going to the summit this time>02:08
rm_youalso someone remind me, we have hotels booked for the night of the 8th, 9th, and 10th?02:09
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luke-jrrm_you: no, THEY have hotels booked for the night of the 8th, 9th, and 10th. YOU get to sit out in the cold. The cat needs his own room.02:25
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* th3_4zarado slaps th3_4zarado around a bit with a large trout02:29
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luke-jrth3_4zarado: hey, no animal abuse in here please!02:31
Firebird9uh oh, my hard-drive is making squealing noises02:34
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ShadowJKOr panic02:37
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Firebird9hmm, the noise continues when I turn my computer off... wonder where its coming from -_-02:43
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MrGoosetheres a new ebook plugin for canola02:49
MrGoosehas anyone used it?02:49
MrGooseI cant figure out how to install it02:49
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ShadowJKFirebird9: I'ved often hunted rattling fans after leaving the cork on soda bottles slightly open02:56
ShadowJKSo that the gas buildup insided has made a bubbling/popping sound at the cork02:57
* b-man16 waits for his OMAP3 pandora kernel to finish building..........02:57
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RST38hwill it finish before or after pandora ships? =)03:01
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RST38h"Ingredients list, including such materials as live leeches, skullcap seeds, chicken fetuses, snake skin, ginger root, mandrake root, lily-of-the-valley-water, spider eggs, and nearly two dozen more items, in varying amounts. The most prominent ingredient appears to be a living human being, preferably a child."03:07
RST38hwazd: according to at least one screenshot, Fremantle has got the iPhone-like unlock slider.03:08
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wazdRST38h: yeah, saw that :)03:08
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wazdRST38h: I wonder why you'll need software lock if you have hardware lock :)03:09
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RST38hcoolness factor?03:10
wazdmeh :)03:11
wazdRST38h: THAT unlocker that I've seen is definitely not cool :D03:11
RST38hbesides, hardware lock lets you turn the locked screen off, software lock like the one used in iPhone does not03:11
RST38hwazd: To each his own. Notice how Eldar absolutely hated the Twist03:11
wazdRST38h: yeah, he likes boring touch bricks :)03:12
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RST38h"SCP-735 is capable of speaking to a subject in any known language and dialect, but has a tendency to use one that will be the most upsetting to the person interacting with it."03:13
RST38hwazd: I got to use an iPod Touch today. The most annoying thing is how I always try to use a nail to touch the screen and
wazdRST38h: well, it's a matter of time :)03:16
RST38hah also the screen kinda sucks03:18
wazdRST38h: yeah, especialy wieh it's with n800/810 side by side03:18
wazdwhat's wieh I wonder :D03:19
RST38ha town in .de?03:21
ShadowJKi wish there was a tmo theme like minimalist dark or light, but with font size of the '' theme03:23
ShadowJKThe minimalist theme has hueg fonts03:23
RST38hand the pages are still 100+kB each03:24
RST38hsomebody has to tell reggie that he loses nothing by using old urchin.cs03:24
ShadowJKYeah tmo theme is twice that, and loads much slower. Must be referencing something on slow servers03:24
ShadowJKOr lots of pointless js03:25
RST38hhe uses google analytics new .js file for tracking03:25
RST38hThis file alone is 100kB. If he changes back to the old urchin.cs, the Google Analytics will still work but the load volume will be much less03:26
ShadowJKIt's a cancer03:27
* ShadowJK switched off js03:27
ShadowJKi'm using 5x7 pixel font normally in putty, etc, and then tmo shows up in some ludicrous 32x3203:29
ShadowJKWith minimalist03:30
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Macervampire diaries is idiotic03:31
Macer:) thought it would be more like true blood03:31
Macerand it totally sucks03:31
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* ShadowJK fails at fibguring out how to go to last unread post in thread in tmo thene03:37
ShadowJKOh right, that column was clickable too03:39
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Macertmo thene?03:45
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carboncopyhello everybody03:59
carboncopyhave a quick question to ask :)03:59
carboncopyon N810 the /media/mmc203:59
carboncopyis it not writable? am trying to delete stuffs on it. those default videos etc.04:00
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zerojayIt's writable.04:00
carboncopyoh.. hmmm..04:00
carboncopywhen tried deleting stuff using File Manager or XTerm04:01
carboncopyboth told me i can't do it04:02
carboncopyok, now that i plugged into USB04:02
carboncopytrying to delete it using FC1104:02
carboncopyError stating file 'foo/bar/map/navicore/ids': Input/output error04:03
carboncopyI say skip04:03
carboncopyNow it says Read-only file system04:03
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blendmaster1024will the linux the maemo is going to run be android or a custom distro?04:08
zerojayThe distro is called maemo. It is not based on android.04:09
blendmaster1024aw. i was hoping that if i wrote an andriod app, i would not have to do any porting...04:10
blendmaster1024oh well, i'll write a maemo app04:10
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rm_youSomeone confirm that I want to be flying out of Amsterdam on Sunday the 11th?04:15
luke-jrblendmaster1024: write a Qt app. then it will run on (almost?) anything04:18
rm_youoh, no... we ahve stuff until 4pm on the 11th <_<04:20
luke-jrblendmaster1024: well, at least Mac, Windows, and X1104:21
luke-jrblendmaster1024: Maemo too04:21
luke-jrSymbian apparently too04:22
angasuleluke-jr: linux framebuffer, too04:25
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pupnik_n900 ame port candidate:  Total Annihilation 3D
ds3is Mer fully sync'ed up with the N900 release? In particular, does Mer now have the A2DP support?04:43
GeneralAntillesds3, no.04:44
GeneralAntillesThe N900's software has not been released yet.04:44
ds3oh :(04:44
GeneralAntillesWait for a release. ;)04:44
ds3I suppose....04:47
ds3btw, are there any Peer to Peer Bluetooth messaging system software for the N800?04:48
C4coloI have an old nokia 770 ... was hoping to make a car computer out of it.  Done some research, but what's the best option for software?04:54
C4coloI only have the 64mb card04:54
C4coloI was reading that the 2008 runs better with a bigger card and some extra swap on there04:54
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C4colois there a way to strip down the 2008 version to just the basics and only put on the few items I need on there?04:57
ds3C4colo: what do you want to do with it?04:57
C4colomostly music04:58
C4coloturn the USB port around and hook up storage of some sort04:58
C4coloif I get real creative bluetooth or usb gps and some sort of mapping software04:59
ds3you can probally strip it down but unless all you do is play stuff through the DSP, the 1710 may choke a bit04:59
ds3Maemo mapper + OGG on a N800 does not work well04:59
C4colohmm, was hoping something like mplayer04:59
C4colothe other option is to use it as a remote display for a mini-itx board somehow05:01
C4colomaybe hack it to do remote x-server proxy stuff05:01
dragornC4colo: rdp/vnc works on it05:02
dragornthat was the best plan I ever came up with for doing a car ui with one05:03
dragornbut then i never botherede05:03
dragornit's in a box somewhere05:03
C4coloif I get it working ... i'll probably not have documented it05:03
ds3is there a workable Vorbis player for the DSPyet?05:04
GeneralAntillesI hate when idiots spread SDXC FUD around.05:05
Pavlovds3: still waiting..05:06
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carboncopyhi am back05:08
carboncopyi found out why the mmc2 was locked05:09
carboncopysupposedly it was corrupted05:09
carboncopythat link help me solved it05:09
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blendmaster1024is there going to be any closed-source software used on the maemo? for instance, as the desktop environment? or is it going to be opensource stuff? (i'm aware that it will be mostly or all custom software)05:21
GeneralAntillesNokia's differentiation stuff is closed.05:22
GeneralAntillesBut most of the platform stuff and the DE stuff is open.05:22
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johnxrm_you, pomg05:35
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ShadowJKNokia online shop finland now estimates preorders will ship w44 or w4506:32
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zerojayPCWhich is when for those of us that aren't europeans and don't generally think in week numbers? :)06:33
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tank-manI would have not guessed those were week numbers06:33
zerojayPCExactly my point. :)06:33
GeneralAntillesI only would thanks to Maemo.06:33
zerojayPCSame here.06:34
tank-manoct26 - wk4406:34
johnxhmm, I'd hoped it would be out sooner so that the price would already be dropping by the end of the year06:35
johnxshould see a drop after christmas I would think though06:35
johnxthough $650 is a rather steep christmas present IMHO06:35
zerojayPCThat's the kind of christmas present you give when you absolutely wanna get laid.06:36
zerojayPCLike... I guess if you were a girl.06:36
johnxyeah, I think giving that to my wife would not have the desired result06:37
zerojayPCI'm borderline about if it would work with mine.06:37
GeneralAntillesClearly you should both try and see.06:38
GeneralAntillesAt worst Nokia is about $1300 richer. :P06:38
zerojayPCNah, that's the sort of thing you only do when courting anyways. lol06:39
johnxGeneralAntilles, well, in the worst case scenario, I'd be out $650, and not getting laid because my wife was playing bounce on it constantly06:39
GeneralAntilleslol06:39 fact, the likeliness of that outcome seems very high06:40
johnxmmm...mer looks so much nicer with the fremantle oxygen-icons theme that kontorri put together06:41
GeneralAntillesScreenshots or it didn't happen.06:42
johnxin the mean time, you saw the open source thumb keyboard example, right?06:44
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disco_stusince maemo5 wont run in n8x0 are we n8x0 users moving to #mer on this irc ?06:46
johnxdisco_stu, only if you want06:47
johnxstill quite valid to talk about maemo4/n8x0 or maemo2/770 here06:47
johnxbut yeah, for mer technical stuff, #mer will get you a better response06:47
disco_stui feel bad in here, because maemo5 is so awesome06:48
johnxwell, the hardware is a huge difference, and it makes the 3D accelerated stuff possible06:48
johnxbut most of the software should come over to mer without much pain and look pretty nice06:49
johnxmer is kind of in the middle of (hopefully the last) interface transition06:49
ShadowJKIt's funny, I was reading a popular .fi forum where Nokia Shop posts too06:49
ShadowJKand nobody was complaining about the price...06:50
johnxthe probably destination of the latest mer-ui transition:
ShadowJKexcept one guy who said it's too low :P06:50
johnxShadowJK, seriously? not 'exclusive' enough for him?06:50
johnxGeneralAntilles, yup, the goal is to 'minimize delta' :)06:50
johnxas lbt would put it06:51
ShadowJKHe argued that it should have been priced above N97 when the hw platform is a generation newer and all06:51
ShadowJKand then he complained that the resale value of his N97 will drop so fast now06:51
GeneralAntillesDon't want shit resale value, don't buy shit phones. :P06:51
ShadowJKN97 is priced up there with iphone and samsung's "flagship" phones :)06:52
ShadowJKand then N900 shows up and undercuts them all06:52
johnxyeah, buying an arm11 for $700 in 2009 isn't exactly a genius move06:52
johnxwell, at least if you're planning to sell it off later06:53
johnxif it works for you then, whatever06:53
johnxanyways, tried to compile the fsk example, but it looks like we're waiting on slightly newer him support libs due out with the next maemo5 sdk release06:55
ShadowJKthe est shipping date slipping is either expectation management due to high amount of preorders, or new deadlines for fixing the bugs discovered by all those N900s nokia has given out :)06:55
johnxI won't touch it until January or so at earliest, so the sooner it gets out and gets cheaper, the better :>06:56
GeneralAntillesjohnx, what about discount codes? ;)06:56
GeneralAntillesIt'll be really silly if they're not ready for the Summit, however.06:57
ShadowJKi think you have better chance waiting for discount in the us than here06:57
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johnxGeneralAntilles, dunno if I'll make the cut06:57
johnxwell, dunno if I'm going to summit06:58
johnxbut actually getting me a device is probably cheaper than getting me over the atlantic. heh06:58
ShadowJKwhen is summit?07:00
johnxoct 8,9,10 I think?07:01
johnxor thereabouts07:01
ShadowJKhah, lol07:05
ShadowJKenjoy summit without N900 then ;)07:05
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GeneralAntillesI still want to stab nm to death everytime I see its icon in the statusbar, however.07:19
GeneralAntillesHi, tigert.07:19
johnxGeneralAntilles, nm is the best choice among a whole field of not that great alternatives, but the good news is it's getting better and will continue to do so07:20
* ShadowJK hugs nokia's "differentation" clone07:21
GeneralAntillesThat doesn't make me hate it less. :P07:21
ShadowJKit never gives me grief, it just works :)07:21
johnxShadowJK, yup. turns out to be a non-starter for mer though07:22
ShadowJKand it even keeps its paws away from me giving myself seamless roaming between wlan and cell :D07:22
johnxand I think 'wheel reinvention' is actually my number 1 pet peeve07:22
ShadowJKYeah except they did it right ;-)07:23
ShadowJKwell.. except for not opensourcing it as a nm rival07:23
johnxand now we have to do it again07:23
johnxinstead of fixing nm07:23
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure it's possible to fix nm. ;)07:23
johnx(I mean that because they didn't just fix nm)07:23
ShadowJKThe biggest problem with nm is the people who wrote it, imo ;)07:23
johnxShadowJK, they seem reasonable enough to me07:24
johnxhave you talked with them much?07:24
johnxthe biggest problem is that there are lots of situations where drivers weren't getting pushed on all that much, so when something actually pushes on them, all the bugs suddenly pop up07:25
Sho_GeneralAntilles: Makes sense, considering the nm icon isn't Oxygen ;)07:25
johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah, we should just present new users with vi and tell them to go edit /etc/network/interfaces and forget about roaming07:25
ShadowJKTheir answer to "NetworkManager doesn't support static IP and loses my DNS settings" in bugzilla was "Configure your DHCP server to serve out the correct settings on a per-MAC basis" or something such07:25
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yes, clearly that would be my chosen alternative.07:26
johnxShadowJK, yeah, well it was probably presented as a workaround, given that they've of course fixed that by now07:26
ShadowJKStill broken in NetworkManager 0.7.1 :)07:26
* ShadowJK hasn't tried newer yet07:27
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disco_stunickar: are you from AR ?07:27
nickaryep :D07:27
nickarhi disco_stu07:27
ShadowJKI actually dread it. I have scripts and workarounds in place now to go fix all the config files after NetworkManager rewrites them with garbage07:27
disco_stunickar: me parecia07:27
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disco_stunickar: por la ip07:28
nickarjajaja, me conocés disco_stu07:28
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nickardisco_stu:  vos?07:28
disco_stunickar: de mendoza07:28
nickardisco_stu:   i am from Bahía Blanca07:28
disco_stunickar: cool :)07:28
nickardisco_stu:  why don't we let other people to join us in our talk! (by speaking in english)?!07:29
disco_stunickar: it's quiet at this time07:29
nickaryes, i see :D07:30
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johnxxShadowJK, looks like the biggest fault with nm is that xchat doesn't understand disconnect/reconnect events07:31
johnxxand, yes, static IPs work07:31
disco_stuStskeeps: did you finish the upload ?07:31
nickardisco_stu:  what do you do for living? are you developer?07:32
ShadowJKjohnx: wha07:32
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disco_stunickar: software engineer07:32
ShadowJKI actually prefer it if NM keeps its paws away from xchat07:32
johnxxit's just an announcement on dbus07:32
johnxxthings can ignore it if they want07:32
ShadowJKJust because a connection is down a few minutes doesn't mean you have to tear down tcp connections07:33
johnxxShadowJK, also, which config files does it "destroy"?07:33
johnxxand things can react to it in any way they see fit07:33
johnxxthe only thing is that they have more information to work with and less guessin to do07:33
ShadowJKit nukes my resolv.conf everytime I plug in my ethernet cable, for example :)07:33
johnxxjust like dhclient?07:33
ShadowJKI dont use dhclient07:34
johnxxdid you ever think about excluding your eth0 from being picked up by nm?07:34
ShadowJKand when I did, I could tell it not to modify dns07:34
nickardisco_stu:  we'll have to leave the conversation for another time, cause tomorrow is a very long day :S07:34
nickarbut i'll return :D07:34
nickarregards disco_stu07:35
ShadowJKyeah, if I do that, the nm tells firefox "oh noes the intarwebs are dead!", and firefox flat refuses to even try07:35
disco_stunickar: see ya07:35
disco_stunickar: i'm here 24/707:35
johnxxwhich you can change in firefox...07:35
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johnxxanyways, my point is that it wasn't always great, but the devs seem to be committed to making it better07:36
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ShadowJKI actually have openvpn running in the background on tablet all the time. xchat and microb connect through it. icd just happily does its thing and connects (with static IP) to wlan APs in my house, completely seamless between APs thanks to static IP07:37
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ShadowJKif I go for a drive, there's about a minute of lag, but thanks to the vpn setup, it looks like just that, lag, to xchat and microb07:38
* johnx shrugs. nm supports static IPs07:38
ShadowJKtcp sessions arent broken and continue working07:38
johnxand icd and nm have pretty similar behavior in terms of notifying apps07:39
johnxit's always the app's choice how to use that information07:39
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ShadowJKthat reminds me...07:42
ShadowJKI still have to figure out how to stop NM&friends from blowing away my nfs mounts07:43
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ShadowJKwell I'd hope it's not a core nm "feature" :)07:44
johnxyou think portmap is getting restarted?07:45
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ShadowJKno whenever nm thinks there might not be a connection, it throws a dice and either throws a fit and runs ifconfig down on the device, and then unmounts all nfs and cifs shares (which is left hung because nm just down the interface), OR07:47
ShadowJKit decides to screw static and launch dhcp anyway07:47
johnxwhat distro are you on?07:48
ShadowJKit soon decides there IS a connection, and brings up the device, and if the nfs/cifs mounts are in fstab, it tries to mount them. It doesn't wait for the running umount attempt to complete, and it doesnt try cancel it, so any mouunt attempts will fail because they're still mounted at that point07:49
ShadowJKeventually retries on the umount kick in, and you're left with half your vfs :)07:50
ShadowJKfedora, lovely isn't it?07:50
johnxif you said suse I would have just stopped talking to you :)07:50
johnxwhen I get a chance I'll test but I feel like ubuntu doesn't behave the same, which I think means that's a fedora config of nm issue07:51
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ShadowJKwhen basic elementary things just cause grief, I cant imagine what a nightmare it would be to try make nm do harder stuff07:53
ShadowJKlike managing mixed VPNs, ethernets, wlans and packet data07:53
johnxI just used it to tether bt to my phone then shared out over ad-hoc wifi07:53
johnxadmittedly haven't touched VPNs07:54
johnxbut I find the whole VPN thing kind of perverse anyways07:54
ShadowJKunfortunately sctp is used even less than ipv6 :(07:55
ShadowJKsctp has support for "hey, I'm now over here on this address and port" type messages, I think07:55
johnxhmm, I wonder if my hosted xen instance has an IPv6 IP...07:56
johnxholy crap yes :)07:56
ShadowJKand with the ipv6 utopia we're all of course supposed to have huge amount of addresses that we can take with us07:56
johnxyup, IP mapping to MAC address07:56
johnxit'll be a nice future once the countries hoarding all the IPv4 addresses finally run out :)07:57
ShadowJKbut until then the next best thing is a server with static IP to vpn through, then it doesn't matter if your ISP sometimes gives you new IP every 2 minutes07:58
johnxwhy isn't that dyndns thing good enough?07:58
ShadowJKbecause if I'm trying to stream a youtube clip and the IP changes, the connection to youtube is left dead07:59
johnxah, bummer07:59
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johnxyour ISP might actually suck worse than mine07:59
ShadowJKand then I have to manually seek to end, seek to start and other trickery to force it to reconnect07:59
johnxand that's kind of impressive07:59
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ShadowJKand hope nothing happens08:00
ShadowJKit varies, sometimes it stays up a week08:01
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ShadowJKsometimes it's down hours, sometimes it goes up and down every minute08:01
johnxI basically keep the same IP until I have to reset the cable modem08:01
ShadowJKbut atleast it's faster than edge when it works08:01
johnxbut someplace on the other side has an 80% of failing to route packets during peak hours08:02
johnxfor minutes at a time08:02
ShadowJKthe vpn router on my lan automatically falls over to edge when the wimax goes down, keeping tcp sessions intact :-)08:02
johnxout in the middle of nowhere?08:03
ShadowJKnext year the fibre co-op is supposed to lay down fibre here though08:04
johnxvery cool08:05
johnxyou'll probably have it before me08:05
johnxback in a sec. I want to see if nm interferes with nfs mounts here08:05
johnxI've become curious08:05
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ShadowJKI'm pessimistic, but then I also was a naysayer and doomed the project to total failure and told them they're lunatics08:05
ShadowJKand was proved wrong when they started construction last year :/08:06
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johnxShadowJK, now, I'm not trying to badmouth Fedora, but I think your nm problems might stem from their configuration08:09
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ShadowJKwouldn't surprise me08:10
ShadowJKthere was big nm flamewar on fedora bugzilla08:11
ShadowJK...started by Linus Torvalds coincidentally08:11
ShadowJKfor many of the same reasons I rant :)08:11
johnxyeah, nm is purposefully designed to be flexible in how it fits into a distro08:12
johnxso that can make a big difference08:12
johnx(also it's full of bugs)08:12
ShadowJKit doesnt help that the redhat people seem  to live on an alien planet :/08:14
johnxyeah, canonical kind of has it's @$$ on the line with every release in terms of trying to sell it to dell, hp, et al08:15
johnxand there have been ubuntu releases with entirely b0ken nm setups of course08:15
johnxbut it *seems* better for *me* recently, so I'll go with cautious optimism08:16
johnxespecially given that their aren't good alternatives08:16
ShadowJKI bet if nm had a bug where it spawned 5000 copies of itself, the reply to the bugreport whining about sluggishness would probably be "I don't notice a thing on my 8000cpu power machine. WORKSFORME"08:16
johnxmaybe so, but I think canonical will now end up having to make it play nice on ARM machines, sooo, again: hopeful, yet cautious :)08:17
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johnxrm_you, poke08:38
rm_youjohnx: pong08:39
rm_youoh, anyone here who spricht Deutsch as a native language want to read like 100 words of a horrible essay for my german201 class and tell me how bad it is? :P08:40
AStormnopes, not native here.08:40
rm_youdo you speak german well tho? :P08:43
rm_youjohnx: any hope of making it to amsterdam? >_>08:44
rm_youmethinks you waited a really long time to apply... i am semi worried08:44
johnxhave all the people with sponsorship already been accepted?08:44
rm_younot sure08:44
rm_you*some* have08:44
rm_youI was08:44
rm_youbut i read something on the homepage about them having like 16 people who submitted topics for talks really near the deadline and only having a few spaces08:45
rm_youwere you one of those? i remember you mentioned something along those lines08:45
johnxwell, I submitted on the 8th08:45
johnxdunno, dunno08:46
rm_youwell, i'm keeping my fingers crossed for you08:46
rm_youwould be nice to see you there :P08:46
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johnxyeah, it really would08:48
johnxI'd be thrilled, and this time I think I have some cool stuff to show off08:48
johnxbut if it's not to be, then I won't get too worked up about it08:48
rm_youi'm poking pretty hard at ABL for fremantle now <_<08:49
rm_youit's being a bit%#08:49
johnxand I'm working on my builder for mer/ppc08:49
rm_youbut hopefully i'll have it functional if not stable by the summit08:50
johnxand will work on some mer/n800 once that's building08:50
rm_youyeah i wonder if Mer/n900 will be feasible08:50
johnxmore feasible than on the n8x0 for sure08:50
johnxharder to lure people on to it though ;)08:51
rm_youwould be neat if you could get it to actually make calls :P08:51
rm_youyeah, kinda need your cellphone to be functional08:51
johnxwell, if the modem is handled at a low enough level that you can just ATDT1800555121208:51
rm_youwhere do i know that number from?08:51
johnx555 is the "TV" prefix for fake numbers08:52
rm_youtv/movie? or is it just a common enough "fake number"08:52
rm_youyeah but also 121208:52
johnxbut I think 555-1212 is some kind of information08:52
johnxmight have been the first acceptable "fake" number08:52
rm_youah yeah08:52
johnxanyways, then it's just a question of hooking sound up sound to someplace08:52
rm_youdirectory assistance08:52
rm_youIn the North American Numbering Plan (covering Canada and the United States), directory assistance may be contacted by dialing 4-1-1 (one of the N11 codes) or to get a listing in a remote or non-local area code, directory assistance is available at 1-area code-555-1212.08:53
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AStormrm_you: only moderately good with German09:00
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rm_youjohnx: yeah i tried that with my phone in linux when using it as a modem and had no luck, but i suppose that's prolly not designed to work over the serial or whatever connection i had running09:05
rm_youi could call people but they wouldn't even have the option to answer, it was loltastic09:05
johnxthis would only work if that's expressly the way it was designed09:06
johnxanyways, I do have a fallback phone for now, and any month now I'll take delivery of a *different* omap3 device ;)09:06
johnxso that might be where my mer work gets concentrated on for a while09:06
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rm_youwoo omap309:15
rm_youi just hope they do a developer program09:15
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rm_youso i can afford the new one :P09:15
rm_youbbl, sleep09:16
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jaemevening folks09:44
Stskeepsevening jaem09:44
* jaem is in a conundrum09:44
jaemI'm still trying to figure out some way for lefties to right-click in my Einstein port, without being horribly unusable09:45
jaemand Nokia really didn't take lefties into account when making the tablets09:45
jaemany keyboard-based modifier will work on two of the tablet models at most09:46
lcukwhy cant lefties right click09:46
lcukmornin Stskeeps \o09:46
jaemlcuk: SDL app09:47
lcukwhats that gotta do with anythin?09:47
Stskeepsmorning lcuk09:47
jaemadding libgtkstylus-like functionality would be bad, because there's a rather small target area for some of the clicks09:47
jaemalso, it would be a bit annoying09:47
jaemleft-click==flip card, right-click==discard card09:48
lcukbut surely thats the same for righties as wel09:48
jaemright now, I'm using Fullscreen as a modifier09:48
jaembut that only works for right-handed people, if I assume that not everyone has X Rotation support installed09:48
lcukthat only works for people who have keyboard closed too09:49
jaemand there is no key common to all the tablets that would work for either09:49
lcukand people with a fullscreen key09:49
jaemshift would work... but only on the N81009:49
jaemon the N770, there's nothing that works at all09:49
lcukbut like i say, why is that "leftie" bad09:49
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lcukand not just the fact you found a solution for a specific device09:49
jaembecause they can't activate a modifier key with the hand that isn't holding the stylus09:49
jaemI'm not saying it's my fault - I'm just not happy with it as-is09:50
jaemand at least one person had specifically complained about that09:50
jaemso... keyboard-based modifiers are out09:50
lcukthere are many ways to get round left/right clicks09:50
jaemtap-and-hold is awkward09:50
lcukso avoid that completely09:51
jaemwhat are you suggesting?09:51
lcuki dunno because i dont know the app09:51
lcukbut most of the time finding a "tap once does one thing, tap again inverts it" seems to work09:52
jaemthat's the original version09:52
jaemI'm still fiddling with the UI on the Maemo port09:52
lcukdont these sorts of games do flipping on clicking and automatically then make the combinations "glow"09:53
jaembut essentially, as you work out the clues (right hand side and bottom), you can flip up a card (top-left area), or hide it (it's a process-of-elimination style game, sort of like sudoko on steroids)09:53
lcukand when you click on a glowing bit it is removed09:54
jaemI'm not following you...09:54
jaemyou flip up a card if you know it's the right one for the cell09:54
jaemyou hide it if you know it isn't09:54
jaemjust to keep things straight09:55
lcukthe screenshot doesnt help either, if its complex the interaction wont be comfortable no matter what09:55
jaemit's a bit hard to explain without you having tried it09:55
* lcuk nods09:55
* jaem just had a thought09:55
johnxwhat about something in that title area that if you tap inside it once, your next tap is turned into a right click09:56
jaemjohnx: that was suggested09:56
jaembut I don't like modes09:56
jaemit wouldn't be that bad in this game09:56
jaembut still...09:56
johnxyeah, it's a pain...but you don't have many options09:57
jaemthe thought I just had would be to flip that around - rather than a button toggling actions, how about the user taps a card to select it, and then chooses an action with one of two buttons?09:57
johnxor do that and fullscreen button and shift button09:57
johnxand hope your lefty has an n810 :)09:57
jaemit's essentially the same, but it avoids modes09:57
johnxavoids modes, but makes every tap into two taps09:57
jaeminstead of only some of them09:58
johnxthough I guess it's kind of a slow paced game?09:58
* jaem nods09:58
jaemas I said... "sudoku on steroids"09:58
johnxthen yeah, that might be your solution :)09:58
jaemmost of the time is spent thinking09:58
jaemyeah, I think so09:58
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johnxI've never managed to make myself play sudoku. all I ever see when looking at it is: I could write a general solver in like 10 lines09:59
lcukhopefully that is a normal state of mind09:59
jaemlcuk: for some :P09:59
jaemjohnx: well, you could for this, too, but for a human, it's a bit trickier to work through09:59
johnxthis at least looks kind of interesting10:00
jaemstill algorithmic, but hard enough that you can enjoy working it out10:00
lcukcould einstein humself use this game>10:00
johnxbut sudoku just looks like math homework10:00
jaemjohnx: heh... yeah, I'm not really a fan of sudoku10:00
jaemlcuk: supposedly he thought it up, and make some claims as to IQ points and some such10:00
jaemI'm not buying it10:00
johnxI want to see competitive regular expressions10:00
jaembut it's still interesting10:00
johnxnow that'd be a great network game10:01
lcukbut hes left handed10:01
lcukhahaha johnx10:01
jaemlcuk: the computers of his day took both hands to operate anyway :P10:01
lcukjohnx, did you see the jamming session with liqflow at onedotzero with jaffa jussi crashanddie_ and i?10:01
johnxnope, got a video?10:02
lcukjaem, yeah ofc10:02
lcukmind you, an abacus is available in handheld models10:02
johnxwow O_o10:03
lcukoh yeahhhhh :D we had lots of fun10:03
lcukthat came out of me noticing on the train the flow pulsated as the train went over the sleepers10:04
lcukjamming in the greenroom was fun10:04
lcukand i got to see calendar and that flow on the projected display10:04
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* lcuk had lots of fun and met loads of great people10:05
johnxso it responds to the music and the mic input simultaneously?10:05
lcukwhen i have 5 minutes ill put together a full rundown of my time :)10:05
lcukthats responding to the drumming on the desk10:05
lcukits technically not touching the music10:05
johnxalso, lining them up like that really adds to the effect10:06
lcukyeah theres some really cool ideas coming out of it10:07
johnxit's too bad they don't have 2x 3axis accelerometers10:07
johnxthey'd be able to get absolute spacial position out of that ...10:07
jaemjohnx: too bad it doesn't have a gyro :)10:07
jaemeven more fun10:07
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jaemgah... is there any sane way to install openssh-server into the Diablo SDK VMware image?10:08
jaemoh wait a minute10:08
jaemmaybe I won't, anyway... the image is from *before* they got that little SSH bug worked out ;)10:09
lcukjaem, mmm10:09
jaemjohnx: on a related aside, these are neat:
jaemif I had the means to figure out how their calibrated, I would be all over that :P10:11
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* jaem wishes his windows would close10:28
jaem...oh the joys of living in uni residence10:28
johnxmust suck in the winter10:28
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johnxrm_you, go back to bed10:28
jaemjohnx: no, this was just broken when I moved in :P10:29
jaemlike our oven10:29
jaemand the holes in the walls10:29
johnxI didn't even have an oven in my last apartment :P10:29
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jaemwell, at least the carpets were well cleaned10:29
jaemthat was the only part that was....10:30
johnxwell, it's the only part you have to walk on, so that's a start10:30
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jaemmy roommate and I were trying to set up a triple-WAN router for our dorm yesterday, but PFSense (the router software) was being stupid10:30
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jaemwhich is a shame, because everyone needs three broadband connections, right?10:31
johnxheh. uni: crappy living conditions, great internet10:32
johnxlater you'll be nostalgic for the inet connection, and totally forget about the living conditions :P10:32
jaemjohnx: well...10:32
jaemthe Internet kind of fails10:32
jaemthey were on a 7-year contract with one ISP10:33
jaemand it was stupid slow (think dial-up at peak times), and usually went down for a week around exam time10:33
johnxsounds like a pretty mean joke10:34
jaemthey also told us we were crazy when we spotted an arp-spoofing attack on the network10:34
lardmanAnyone know where Mr Klapper is these days?10:34
jaemand then, three weeks later when it took out their switches, they made a big deal about them discovering it :/10:34
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jaemso some other company bought out the contract in my second year10:35
jaemand they're decent, although it's still not reliable10:35
jaembut now the problem is that they charge 1/3 the price, for a good speed, but low data cap10:35
jaemresidence charges us the original price, and takes 2/3 off the top10:36
jaemmeaning that to get a decent amount of data, we have to pay $60/month10:36
jaemwhich is equivalent to getting a second, faster line from the local cable company10:36
lardmanis this in uni accommodation?10:36
jaemon top of the mandatory uni line10:36
jaemand we have to pay for it whether we use it or not10:36
lardmanhmm, free at Bath, though no voip/p2p allowed10:37
jaemwell, these guys are decent in that regard10:37
jaemalthough I think it's more due to a lack of ability/resources to monitor our usage10:37
johnxthat describes the relationship between me and my cell phone carrier pretty well :>10:38
jaemwell, the problem is that the ISP is fulfilling their side of things as agreed (although higher reliability would be good)10:38
jaemthe university is ripping us off10:39
johnxthat's what unis do10:39
jaemluckily, the ISP has decided to be nice, and change the hard cap to a "fair use" policy10:39
lardmanthey used to do it with phones in the old days, now it;s moved onto internet connections10:39
jaembut that's completely out of the goodness of their heart - the school is paying them for 10GB/month10:39
johnxthe original thing to gouge students on was books I think :)10:39
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lardmanah, but you don't have to buy them from the uni10:40
lardmanprobably papyrus scrolls & clay tablets in truth ;)10:40
jaemjohnx: check out these guys: http://www.flatworldknowledge.com10:40
johnxlardman, kinda, some schools release book lists so close to class starts that you don't have time to get anything shipped10:40
lcuklardman, \o10:40
lardmanoh yeah, I remember those days10:40
johnxanyways, I'm out of school these days :)10:41
lardmanwell I still work at one10:41
jaembrb - I have to swap out my keyboard10:41
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johnxso the n900 has an IR transmitter, does it have a receiver as well?10:45
lardmandoes it?10:45
johnxthere's already an app out for use as a tv remote10:46
lardmanoh, cool10:46
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PetarluHm, I found some evidence that the built-in media player is not open-source at all. Too bad.11:20
johnxthat's correct11:20
johnxfor open source maemo players, try youamp or if you're into shiny UIs check canola11:21
lardmanthe ui may not be, but the backend should be11:21
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PetarluI want to understand how the internals of that media player work when it comes to the gstreamer components that are used.11:22
PetarluFor example, does it use "playbin" or does it create the decoding graph on it's own?11:22
johnxah, well the gstreamer stuff is open source except for, IIRC, some of the gstreamer libs that interact with the DSP11:22
lardmanPetarlu: that I don't know11:24
PetarluYes. From the web I could collect some facts that the ways to access the DSP has changed again and again over time. Now it seems to be gst-dsp that will drive the decoding, previously it seemed to be gst-openmax.11:24
PetarluNow means in upcoming Maemo 5.11:24
lardmanwhat device areg we talking about btw?11:24
lardmannow is gst -> openmax for dsp video decoding11:25
lardmanor gst only for audio11:25
lardmanbefore was gst + gst dsp sinks for audio11:25
lardmanin the very old days, 770, gst dsp sinks were also used for video decoding11:26
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Petarlulardman: Thanks for the informations. I have a N800 and wanted to understand how hw accelartion is used. Then I read about the N900 and tried to find out if support has changed. So for N900/Maemo 5 gst-openmax will still be used? Or gst-dsp? Sorry for the newbie questions...11:27
* slonopotamus never heard of gst-openmax 11:28
johnxwell, given that gst-openmax isn't used yet, it'd be kind of surprising if they already had another new thing before even releasing gst-openmax11:28
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johnxslonopotamus, heard of openmax?11:28
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slonopotamusjohnx, neither11:29
lardmanon the n800 only gst is used, no openmax, and gst sinks directly interface with dsp tasks11:29
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lardmanon the n900, etc., gst will interface with gst-openmax, and the openmax structure will be used on the dsp11:29
floriangood morning11:30
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slonopotamusjohnx, one more wrapper?11:31
Petarlujohnx: Yes, this is thought as well, because then the proprietary TI DSP stuff can be hidden behind gst-openmax interface nicely. But then I found gst-dsp, which says to "Texas Instruments provides DSP algorithms for the OMAP 3 platform used in a number of devices like beagleboard and rx51 (Maemo 5).This project aims to provide GStreamer elements to take advantage of those algorithms. The list includes video/image decoders and encoders.  Unlike other similar11:31
Petarlujohnx: Now I'm confused...11:31
bilboed-piwith gst-dsp... you bypass the openmax API11:32
bilboed-pi==> less overhead11:32
lardmanhmm, interesting11:32
lardmanI don't know about those11:32
lardmanas you say removes the middleman, presumably there was some reason Nokia were planning on using openmax11:32
lardmanI've not looked at the Fremantle DSP stuff yet I'm afraid. What I said before was the planned implementation11:33
lardmanor at least what we were told was planned :)11:33
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Petarlulardman: Hehe. When using gst-openmax, things are split nicely I guess. OpenMAX components can be implemented by TI or whoever and gst-openmax only used generic OpenMAX stuff. With gst-dsp, you are close to the DSP, but depend on the firmware I guess. That means if TI updates the DSP code, you have to update gst-dsp perhaps. This will not happen with gst-openmax.11:35
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lardmanthough the DSP-side of openmax would still need updating11:35
bilboed-piopenmax tries to be an abstraction layer like GStreamer. The difference is that... well... the API is just a bunch of badly documented header files11:35
lardmanalso, from what I've read, the DSP task interface is probably fairly fixed11:35
bilboed-piso it's not just about overhead11:36
slonopotamusPetarlu, that works if TI really provides dsp<->openmax stuff11:36
lardmanno the overhead is probably pretty small once everything is setup in truth11:36
slonopotamusjust. one. more. wrapper.11:36
lardmanbilboed-pi: big is it?11:37
bilboed-pilardman, openmax starts extra threads... which you can't really control11:37
lardmansounds just like gst :D11:37
bilboed-pino, in gst you can control them11:37
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johnxwow...openmax sounded really cool when it was announced. that's a shame :/11:37
johnxany comments about the openness of the gst-dsp stuff?11:38
bilboed-pioh, and also... that's only one part of openmax... there's 3 (4?) layers to it... the only used one seems to be OpenMAX/IL ... which is the equivalent of the gstreamer plugin-side API11:38
lardmanshould be open, assuming it interfaces with the Ti designed task interface stuff11:38
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johnxlardman, I was wondering more about the tasks themselves11:39
lardmanah those are closed11:39
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lardmanthough the interfaces are documented, etc11:39
Petarlubilboed-pi: Yes, IL (interface layer) is the one mainly used. The others are not so widespread.11:39
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lardmanotherwise it's just recreating gst isn't it11:40
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Petarlulardman: OpenMAX and gstreamer have the same audience. It would easier to rewrite the application using OpenMAX instead of gstreamer, if you really want to go for OpenMAX.11:41
PetarluInstead of putting OpenMAX components into gstreamer components. My 2 cents...11:41
lardmanwell openmax reaches deeper doesn't it? closer to the hw? at least that was what I assumed as for the reason to use it11:42
bilboed-pilardman, no, none of them do low-level. It's the *implementations* of the various plugins that do the low-level stuff11:44
lardmanah fair enough11:44
Petarlulardman: Not necessarily. As you said, it's mainly described by the header files. The actual implementation can be ti-openmax or the "bellagio" implemention. It has components similar to gstreamer elements. The clock control is more expliciti with dedicated clock components. With gst-dsp, gstreamer and OpenMAX are fairly similar. But OpenMAX has the "advantage", that you can provide binary-only implementations more easily.11:44
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bilboed-piPetarlu, excuse me ?11:44
bilboed-piPetarlu, there's binary-only gstreamer plugins out there11:45
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bilboed-piPetarlu, same thing for clock control11:45
johnxsomehow when I read about openmax earlier, I was under the impression there were a whole bunch of binary plugins for it that were free for the taking and just waiting to be used11:45
bilboed-pihow different is it from the hundreds of available (open-source or not) gstreamer plugins ??11:46
johnxI guess I got the impression that the openmax plugins were rather heavily optimized for the Cortex-A811:47
bilboed-pithe dsp code is11:47
Petarlubilboed-p: Yes, I know. This is why I said "more easily". The interface is, let's say, more plain-C-like and probably easier to understand and use.11:48
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bilboed-piPetarlu, ... easier to understand... maybe. Easier to use ... err...11:48
bilboed-piPetarlu, also... good luck writing a simple multi-format player with openmax only :)11:49
bilboed-piPetarlu, or a voip client11:49
bilboed-piPetarlu, or <multimedia-application-of-your-choice>11:49
bilboed-piyou'd have to rewrite a truckload of code every single time depending on what formats you want to support, what outputs, etc...11:49
bilboed-pilike... *joy*11:49
Petarlubilboed-pi: I don't advocate for the one or the other. My main problem at the moment is to understand how gstreamer supports these DSP decoding approach. I mean, in theory, the DSP supports demultiplexing, decoding, post-processing and rendering. So in theory the data never leaves the DSP again. But using any component-based mulitmedia framework, the framework pretends that it moves the data around, but in reality it's always in the DSP (proprietary communica11:51
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bilboed-pi(end of your sentence went to /dev/null)11:51
wazdhello everyone11:51
Petarlubilboed-pi: I agree with you that OpenMAX lacks all the format recognition stuff.11:51
Petarlubilboed-pi: I mean, in theory, the DSP supports demultiplexing, decoding, post-processing and rendering. So in theory the data never leaves the DSP again.11:52
bilboed-piyah, and ?11:52
Petarlubilboed-pi: But using any component-based mulitmedia framework, the framework pretends that it moves the data around, but in reality it's always in the DSP (proprietary communication in OpenMAX).11:52
bilboed-piyou still need to pass around some metadata (like ... timestamps). Kind of useful when you want to have accurate synchronous rendering11:53
bilboed-piall data stays in dsp until the last element... and that element's sole task is to say at the right time "OK, FLIP, DISPLAY"11:53
Petarlubillboed-pi: Does gstreamer support this? I mean, having elements that will not output the actual data, but just metadata?11:54
bilboed-pibut basically... *you* don't have to care whether it's raw data in main memory or in GPU memory, open-gl textures, or memory on the dsp11:54
bilboed-piPetarlu, *YES*11:54
bilboed-piPetarlu, how do you think gst-dsp or gst-opengl works ?11:54
bilboed-piPetarlu, do you *seriously* think we shuffle data around between main memory and various components ??? You'd never be able to watch HD video on your computer11:54
bilboed-pia case you use everyday when watching videos on a linux system : data is allocated downstream (by the video card) and returned to the decoder... which decodes straight into GPU memory11:55
Petarlubilboed-pi: No, I was not thinking that, but I could not find out how it works. For gst-dsp I understand that the renderer (gst-omapfb) provides buffers to the decoder, which actually is the framebuffer directly.11:55
bilboed-piand then the buffer just has a pointer to that video memory. When it reaches the sink, the only thing it has to do is at the right moment go "ok, display"11:55
PetarluPerhaps I'm too focussed on embedded systems and SoCs.11:56
bilboed-piyah :) remember : GStreamer is just a framework. We just provide a unified API (like for requesting buffers downstream)11:56
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PetarluMy problem is: assume that decoding and rendering is done by the GPU, internally. For an SoC, perhaps the CPU cannot access the memory used at all.12:01
PetarluThen you insert a video postprocessing element and you have the problem that the CPU needs to manipulate the video data.12:02
PetarluOr you want to support a codec that the GPU/SoC does not support.12:02
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PetarluIdeally the SoC/DSP/whatever want to handle all the decoding internally.12:03
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PetarluHm, probably i'll go to #gst_ti and ask the guys what they think about it...12:07
Petarlubilboed-pi, lardman, johnx: thanks for the discussion!12:07
johnxPetarlu, nice talking to you :)12:08
bilboed-piPetarlu, right, that's where caps negotiation comes into place.12:09
bilboed-piPetarlu, between the various elements12:09
bilboed-piPetarlu, if all elements between you dsp decoder and your dsp sink can handle the same caps (let's say "video/x-dsp")... then they won't be converted12:09
bilboed-piPetarlu, if you put a postprocessing element that can't handle that format, you'll have to put converter elements in between (i.e. an element that can take "video/x-dsp" and output "video/x-raw-yuv" or the like)12:10
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bilboed-pi(that last element would just be downloading the memory from DSP ready-only memory to main memory)12:10
bilboed-piand there's also some tricks to make sure your buffer won't be written to and, if an element wishes to write to it, can request a writable copy (the copy is up to your buffer implementation)12:11
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Petarlubilboed-pi: That's interesting. Now I understand. But using stuff like "video/x-dsp" does not work well with existing application that use "playbin", or?12:13
bilboed-piplaybin2, yes12:13
bilboed-piplaybin doesn't have that good support for hw-only decoders and sinks)12:13
bilboed-piplaybin2 made it better (and uses less memory, and is smarter)12:13
bilboed-piI'm pretty sure it's playbin2 which is now being used in Maemo512:14
PetarluPlaybin2, yes. Then I have to check playbin2 again.12:16
AStormhey guys12:18
AStormwhat's the ID of Nokia N900 GPS chipset?12:18
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AStormheh, any idea?12:21
Stskeepscheck the kernel :P12:22
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AStormStskeeps: buy me N900 first12:25
AStormwhy don't you just tell me?12:26
Stskeepsbecause i don't know :P12:26
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SpeedEvil1It's a TI binary blob thing12:28
SpeedEvil1no - ignore that12:28
SpeedEvil1that's correct for the 81012:28
SpeedEvil1I've just workn up12:28
lardmanit probably is now too12:29
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Stskeepsafaik the chip speaks nmea now12:29
AStormyes it does12:29
AStormbut still no info WHICH one it is.12:29
AStormI'm trying to get that.12:29
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lardmanWe only worked out what the other one was from a disassembly of gspdriver12:31
AStormI wonder why they're so secretive about it12:32
AStormit's not like anyone will steal it from them12:32
AStormor that we can't open the device and check12:32
fralsbtw, has anyone posted dmesg output yet or is that nda-material until release? :p12:32
SpeedEvil_all_ the device hardware is basically under NDA12:32
AStorm(there are better gps chips to steal)12:32
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johnxwhich is funny, because I sware quim told me I should run dmesg on the "dev" unit at danish weekend :)12:33
SpeedEvilGPS chips are quite easy12:33
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johnxand yet, easy to get wrong it seems12:33
AStormSpeedEvil: not.12:33
AStormunless that's a softgps12:33
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AStormthat's indeed easy12:34
fralssomeone should head over the flagship stores and get the dmesg output ;)12:34
SpeedEvilThere is a wide variety from the really cheap ones that _everything_ is done on the CPU - to the fully cooked ones12:34
AStormI guess this one will be more hardware12:34
SpeedEvil(everything = including correlation)12:34
AStormsince they dropped battery12:34
* johnx wants his GPS chip cooked to a golden brown12:34
SpeedEvilIt's all a balance between price, volume, and ...12:34
AStormand power use.12:34
johnx and what's available from your favorite vendor ;)12:34
SpeedEvilAStorm: included in '...'12:34
AStormprice is of no consideration here I think12:34
AStormTI can handle the volume12:35
AStormSpeedEvil: in N90012:35
AStormand likely N500 as well12:35
SpeedEvilAStorm: Assuming it's TI12:35
AStormyes, otherwise they'd tell us what it is12:35
AStormother companies aren't so draconian in their NDAs12:35
AStormTI lawyers are really hard-ass12:35
johnxsome are better, lots are worse12:35
SpeedEvilThere is nothing in the NDA saying what it is.12:35
SpeedEvilabout saying12:36
SpeedEviljust giving details - generally - that aren't public12:36
AStormSpeedEvil: there is something I guess, or that info would be divulged.12:36
SpeedEvilAStorm: _nothing_ about the hardware is being12:36
AStormand TI is known for extreme NDAs.12:36
lardmanchances are it's the standard Ti fare for this age of chip12:36
lardmansame was true of the N810's gps chipset12:36
lardmanI don't know what that is mind you12:36
kirmaOMAP3 is certainly offered with companion GPS chips from TI, and those companion chips even integrate other useful features in them, and also handle interference avoidance between subsystems12:38
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lcuklardman, is it in pieces now?12:39
kirmaall TI chips, based on what information is available, look like soft-gps12:39
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SpeedEvilThere are several classes of GPS chip12:41
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SpeedEvilthe simplest just digitise the GPS radio spectrum, and do nothing more12:41
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SpeedEvilThe more complex ones do all the hard-real-time in hardware - and have a slowish serial link - but the CPU does all the work of determining the position12:42
SpeedEvilThen you've got fully cooked ones that you just apply power and recieve position12:42
kirmaspeedevil: this looks pretty interesting, and even that has "unnecessary" USB glue:
johnxI can imagine the pinout on that last type: power goes here->[]->signal comes out here12:44
aSIMULAtorpäivää whatever12:47
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SpeedEvilkirma: that's been available for sparkfun for 3? years12:50 autobuilder liiiives12:50
SpeedEviljohnx: with several annoying passives typically, but more or less12:51
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SpeedEvilkirma: this is the first type - just a A/D - like a soundcard but higher freqs :)12:51
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kirmaspeedevil: ah, found it12:52
kirmathe paradoxical thing is the price :/12:52
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lardmanhas anyone tried the camera api on the Fremantle SDK?12:59
lardmanThe C code?12:59
lardmanlooks pretty much identical to the Diablo code12:59
lardman(not too unexpected that)12:59
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KhertanARGGG lost 4 hours ... founding where our server at work where compromising13:04
SpeedEvilkirma: these are very low volume things - which boosts the price unforutnately13:04
Khertana stupid phpmyadmin hole !13:04
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Khertanagain !13:04
lardmancu all on Thursday13:04
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Khertansystem($_GET(['c'])) !13:05
kirmakhertan: that's understandable, but sort of unfortunate...13:05
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MaceN8x0stupid ogg13:08
* MaceN8x0 is starting to hate ogg13:09
slonopotamusMaceN8x0, got printing working in mer yet? :)13:09
MaceN8x0slonopotamus, lol. no13:09
MaceN8x0i have been in maemo4 for a while13:09
MaceN8x0got it working in gentoo?13:09
slonopotamusMaceN8x0, emerge cups happily works :P13:10
MaceN8x0yeah but13:11
MaceN8x0have you tried it in an app that is worthwhile?13:11
slonopotamusMaceN8x0, is evince worthwhile?13:12
MaceN8x0im watching inuyasha13:13
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MaceN8x0i should try out high def movies on this artigo13:13
MaceN8x0i doubt the cpu has enough power13:14
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wazd Damn, I'm too young again13:19
SpeedEvilyou can always apply13:20
SpeedEvilWell - unless you're young enough that you can't work the hours13:20
wazdSpeedEvil: well, 8-10 years of working in industry - When I was 11 I had no computer at all :D13:20
wazdAnd I have no degree in this sphere13:21
wazdcause we have no universities that can graduate in this sphere :D13:22
johnx"The job is no longer available."13:22
johnxthat was fast13:22
slonopotamusjohnx, sshh! that was a joke13:22
SpeedEvilApplying if you realistically think you have the skills - supplying a CV as to why you can - is generally never bad.13:22
SpeedEviljohnx: immediately after wazd posted13:23
wazdjohnx: I don't think they've found someone in like 5 days :D13:23
t_s_okinda "fun" seeing apple faithfull using the tablet arguments as reasons why apple should not get involved with netbooks :P13:23
lcukwho *knows* the location of the summit, ie who has been there and walked around and has an idea of the layout13:23
slonopotamuswazd, could you post my cv link then so i get better-paid job immediately? :D13:23
wazdlcuk: google street view? :)13:24
SpeedEvilHow are the smaller macbooks not netbooks?13:24
SpeedEvilExcept for the price13:24
lcukwazd, good idea but street view does not go inside locations13:24
wazdSpeedEvil: well, they are large and heavy :)13:24
KhertanHum ... is there some place to report 0day security hole ?13:24
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lcukKhertan, get in a queue.  unfortunately the queue takes 3 days13:25
Stskeepsthere's a page on it yetah13:25
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SpeedEvilIt's insane - I really want a duplicate of my Toshiba 3110CT.13:27
SpeedEvilWhich - with a re-celled battery - got 8h battery life in around a kilo with a nice metal case.13:27
SpeedEvilBut it was only PII/30013:27
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johnxerrr...does someone know if there's a maximum depth for recursive functions in bash?13:40
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lcukjohnx, oooer how deep do you need13:42
lcukcos i see examples of recursive functions around13:42
johnxmight be a couple hundred deep13:42
lcukand is it a case of the stack limit13:42
johnxadding some tests to find out13:42
* zerojayPC yawns big/scratches random body parts.13:42
lcukwhat are you calculating?13:42
johnxit's a package auto builder13:43
johnxI'm used to recursive seemed simplest :/13:43
lcukyeah, recursion is simple.13:43
lcuksee previous comment13:43
lcukpeople seem to use it for recursive folder diving and stuff13:44
lcukperhaps if you are having trouble, refactor slightly and remove the recursion from some parts of it13:44
johnxnah, I don't think it's the recursion13:45
johnxI just have to fully understand what I wrote :)13:45
johnxI just wrote a little test and let it get 2608 deep13:45
lcuki know when i build parsers and compilers sometimes recursion has to give way to do whiles13:45
lcukif you unrolled that code and printed it, wouldnt the entire thing travel round the world13:46
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zeevcan one use skype to call SIP?13:51
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Stskeepsno, but you can use n8x0 sip support13:55
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MaceN8x0i should try out  the ogg stuff on this thing13:56
MaceN8x0even if ogg sucks13:56
wazdanyone has an example of good CV? :)13:56
ccookewazd: define "good"?13:58
ccookeI've had some very positive results from mine, but...13:58
zeevdoes N900 supports internet connection sharing over bluetooth as stnadard feature?13:58
glasswazd: it should be one page, add some portfolio crap as extra if you wish13:58
SpeedEvilOne page is good.13:59
SpeedEvilThe content is more important than the style hopefully though.13:59
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SpeedEvilOne page of highlights, then expand and add references in the latter pages.13:59
wazdccooke: well, good = existing :D14:00
johnxzeenix, the people who know can't say14:00
johnxsorry :) I meant zeev14:00
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ccookeMine's basically one page of keywords with small descriptions plus another page and a bit of history and background. I'll have to rewrite it when I update it for the last two years, though - it'll get too long.14:01
millenomianyone with any experience with ObjC runtimes on Maemo?14:02
* millenomi ducks and screams "aaa don't look at me like that"14:03
ccookemillenomi: Well, I visited and checked that it'd work on the n810...14:05
ccooke(No, sorry)14:05
millenomiwell, that's not a ObjC runtime :)14:05
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ccooketechnically it is, almost. ObjJ is a complete port of ObjC to javascript. Quite an interesting idea, actually14:05
millenomiI know, but it's not source-compatible, so it's a little out of the way for my purposes for now.14:06
millenomi<--- has a large ObjC codebase for an app on That Other Phone. Looking to port it over.14:06
millenomiI'd prefer not to have to rewrite the 'portable' part of the thing.14:06
Stskeepsnot sure if gcc 4.2 has it14:07
ccookeObjective C has definitely been ported14:07
millenomiI was more worried about the runtime portion of the thing (GNUstep or Cocotron)14:08
millenomito see if anyone ventured that way.14:08
ccookeThe real difficulty will be hildonising, surely14:08
millenomior if I have to be a pioneer and such.14:08
millenomioh I don't plan on having the UI written in ObjC.14:08
millenomijust the model/engine/network stack thingie that powers the app. (
ccooke - looks to be at least somewhat active.14:09
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millenomianother q: if I were to build a cross-compiler for Maemo on another platform, what platform should I target? any guide?14:15
johnxlcuk, tripped over a global variable14:15
millenomimethinks I'll have to gut Scratchbox and learn how it works exactly before venturing in that territory >_<14:15
johnxmake sure that gobjc isn't already included before you get too far :)14:16
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johnxbut hmm, adding to the maemo sdk toolchain...14:16
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Stskeepssb2 is probably closer to your sanity14:17
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millenomiwill look, thanks :)14:22
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millenomimmm, looks like GNUstep is a no-go -- they're stuck with the previous version of the language.14:29
millenomiI'll have to go with Cocotron, which means building my own cross-compiler >_<14:29
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lbtmillenomi: I just setup an SDK for Mer which builds the Ubuntu toolchain - it wouldn't be hard to tack on objc14:31
millenomithe problem is that the GNU objc stuff is stuck to 2004, language-wise, as far as I can see.14:31 has patches that correspond to the newer version of the language, but I still have to see how they apply them to GCC14:31
lbtok, nm then14:32
lbtmy objective is to use the vanilla upstream compiler code as a cross-14:32
lbtand of course this is all for Mer/OBS not fremantle14:33
lcukmillenomi, having objc gives you the language, but what about the support libraries and OS specific deps - how are they ahndled (it might be included but i dunno)14:33
lcukhey david \o14:33
millenomiCocotron also has the full implementation of Foundation that I need, it seems.14:34
zeevdoes N810 supports internet connection sharing over bluetooth as stnadard feature?14:34
millenomibut it's Windows-geared.14:34
lbthi garry14:34
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lbtgood weekenddotzero14:34
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lcukamazing onedotzero :)14:35
* lbt renames lcuk lcuk.014:35
lcukseeing so many people from so many fields come together and play their part in a collaborative experience was amazing14:35
lcukmuch higher paced than random dev14:35
lcukwas great to actually have principle deadline and goals/objectives14:35
lbtwould love to have known about it beforehand14:36
ccooke(so is there a twodotzero next year?)14:36
mgedminzeev: if by that you mean getting your laptop online through a n810's bluetooth 3g/edge/gprs connection, then no14:36
mgedminI'm sure it's possible, though14:36
lcukand working with karsten especially on his massive exhibit was soooooooooooo cool14:36
mgedminwith some 3rd party packages14:36
mgedminI've never done that14:36
lcukccooke, the onedotzero festival is a collaborative get together of digital media artists and it travels around the world14:37
lcukstarting in london it visits numerous cities following a theme14:37
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lcukthis year, its adventures in motion, and the identity installation (which is controlled by a bespoke app written in liqbase on the n900) is going to evolve over the year14:38
lcuklbt, i was asked to keep it quiet im afraid14:38
lcuki wanted it on right at the start14:39
lcukto allow greater collaboration and input14:39
lbtlcuk: yeah, I heard :)14:39
ccookelcuk: Interesting.14:39
lcukthere is some media coverage of the event and installation14:40
ccookeI've (naturally) heard about the identity installation)14:40
lcuki hadnt!14:41
lcukthe hardware on the n900 is dreamy :$14:41
* ccooke grins14:42
lcukit made for a really responsive fast controller - people were making it roll and tumble and zoom and were pretending to be topguns and all sorts14:42
lcukkarsten is hopefully going to release his identity app for desktop machines soon14:42
lcukwhich allows users at home to play and take part14:42
lcukand obviously the onedotzero app on should control it too14:42
lcukwas great to meet a load of folks, especially qwerty14:43
lcukhe hasnt been able to get to any other maemo events :)14:43
lcukgood that something happened so close14:43
lcukthis was a different type of collaboration (again using hte n900)14:44
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lcukwe were sat in a bar drumming on a table whilst my liqflow was running14:44
lcuk(thats myself jaffa crashanddie jussim)14:45
lcuklbt, the proto looks familiar doesnt it :$14:45
ccookelcuk: huh. That's nice!14:46
lcukccooke, it came about after i noticed on the train14:46
lbtlcuk: where've I seen one of those before?14:46
Corsacthe top one is a proto n900?14:46
lcukwell, first - liqflow uses accelerometer data to let the particles fall like rain, and it also uses it in a rumble/shake capacity14:47
lcuklol lbt14:47
lcukwhen i was on the train going to london i noticed as i went over the track connections it pulsed14:47
lcukand i showed em, and we started drumming on the desk :D and had a great time playing14:48
lcukCorsac, :$ yeah14:48
Corsacit looks nice14:48
X-FadeCorsac: development device.14:48
Corsaca bit rugged, thinkpad like14:48
lcukX-Fade, indeed :)14:48
X-FadeBasically hardware in a box ;)14:48
lcuklots of development has occured on it14:48
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wazdyeah, remote controlling is such an innovative feature, it relases the whole firepower on n900 hardware for sure :D14:54
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crashanddieI'm coming to the Summit, it would seem15:28
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crashanddieso what exactly happens if I show up while I'm technically on the waiting list?15:30
timeless_mbpgood for you15:30
timeless_mbpwhat waiting list? :)15:30
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andre810crashanddie, there is no waiting list. either you registered for the summit, or you didn't15:32
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crashanddieandre810: pretty sure the web page I'm looking at says "Waiting list"15:33
timeless_mbpyou sure it isn't for sponsorship?15:33
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crashanddieoh, it says it on the page "We are opening a waiting list to allow people keeping registering. Once we agree on the hard limit of participants of the Summit, those in the waiting list will be accepted by strict order of registration."15:34
andre810aha... didnt know that15:35
crashanddiesod it, anyway, I'm big, nobody will try to stop me from getting in15:35
* ccooke notes that some of the people on the waiting list have rather more right to be there than I do :-/15:35
* timeless_mbp puzzles15:35
crashanddieccooke: you being who on that list?15:35
timeless_mbpthe waiting list has 7 items and says it's for people after 30015:36
ccookecrashanddie: not on that list.15:36
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timeless_mbpthe maemo summit page says there are 312 registrants15:36
timeless_mbp312 = 300 + 7, right?15:36
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ccookeIt seems likely that Nokia will find space for more people - how many is the question.15:38
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure the space itself will have physical limitations15:38
timeless_mbpbut i'd imagine a couple of people can be squeezed in15:38
crashanddieemail fail15:39
crashanddieIf you requested sponsorhip, the request is pending for approval15:39
crashanddiesponsorhip, the coolest way to be sponsored!15:39
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: a coworker noted the use of the word "ment" in a document this morning15:39
timeless_mbppersonally, my favorite of the day is:
Corsacthey didn't manage to decide?15:40
crashanddietimeless_mbp: he ment to do well :P15:40
timeless_mbpbut i'm not sure sponsorhip beats micorophone and mirophone15:40
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: my coworker confirmed my guess that it's a "4 letter word" (i.e. a curse)15:41
timeless_mbpCorsac: it's a localized localisation of well brother. something?15:41
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timeless_mbpoh, "a mess", that's it! :)15:42
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crashanddietimeless_mbp: still, I haven't seen anything worse than the dutch Katholiek Universiteit Tilburg15:42
crashanddietimeless_mbp: which logo spelt out "KUT" on the business cards15:42
crashanddieI'll let you find out what kut means in dutch :)15:42
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timeless_mbpooh, i guessed right!15:43
Corsacwell, my CS diploma is called "Diplome d'Ingenieur en Informatique et Communications". I let you imagine how it's pronunced in english.15:43
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timeless_mbpCorsac: we used to have a TV production group by that sound15:43
timeless_mbparound :28 is the audible set i remember as a child15:44
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crashanddieCorsac: Informatique et Reseau pour l'Industrie et les Services techniques. IRIS, pretty cool to be honest. You have no idea how many people we fooled in saying we did eye-related computer science15:45
timeless_mbpand yes, they produced children's television programming :)15:45
* timeless_mbp grinds teeth15:47
timeless_mbpat least dic used animated violence15:47
timeless_mbp(is there anyone here who hasn't seen inspector gadget?)15:47
crashanddieGO GO GADGET15:47
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keesjmy kid doens't like it15:48
crashanddietimeless_mbp: by the looks of it (and the conf calls I'm in atm), I won't be in the Ukraine this week, sorry bro15:48
timeless_mbpkeesj: do you remember the alternative parsing of the phrase?15:48
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crashanddieAndrewFBlack: you really ought to brush up your candidacy email15:49
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Corsacnot sure15:53
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timeless_mbpi.e. "it should be safe"15:53
MyrttiCorsac: on my scale it goes to "why do I bother with this channel" end15:54
timeless_mbpanyway... DIC as a production house is fairly old15:55
* RST38h wonders if cartoon porn is regulated in the US15:56
CorsacI'd assume so15:56
timeless_mbp around 3:4015:56
SpeedEvilSome parts regulate it insanely.15:57
RST38hJapan apparently does not...15:57
Corsacdepends if there's tentacles involved15:57
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RST38hThey are?15:58
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: not really15:59
timeless_mbpif you take two people and then draw the act into the picture16:00
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timeless_mbpbut they didn't really do it, should you be able to say "it wasn't real, so it's ok"?16:00
RST38hCorsac: One can argue that anything with tentacles should be considered an expression of religious freedom16:00
SpeedEvilSure. That is a realistic representation.16:00
RST38hCorsac: By the Cthulhu adepts16:00
timeless_mbpone is free to argue anything, but one is likely to lose16:00
SpeedEvilThis is a representation of two completely fictional chars.16:00
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: well, personally, i'd go after them for copyright / trademark abuse16:01
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timeless_mbpbecause the owners of the copyright would not want their characters depicted in that manner16:01
SpeedEvilThat wouldn't actually generally work either - due to the parody defence.16:01
RST38hDepends if this can be called a parody16:02
SpeedEvilParody is a legitimate use of copyrighted works - in many countries at least. True.16:02
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timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: so, ...16:02
timeless_mbpone of the two should work16:02
RST38hThey will bring in some egghead expert and he will call it not a parody, case closed16:02
timeless_mbpput it this way, i don't approve of certain middle eastern groups taking Mickey Mouse and using him to endorse Murder16:02
RST38hEhehe, Haiku Project site got slashdotted16:04
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* RST38h is personally ok with Mickey promoting jihad, serves him well.16:05
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RST38hToo bad no tentacles are involved, of course.16:06
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wazd <- OLED definitely rocks :)16:10
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RST38hWhat about life expectancy though?16:11
crashanddiewazd: still a bloody zune so it's going to suck for one reason or another16:11
wazdRST38h: well, Zune HD has pretty low display resolution, so it doesn't eat so much power16:12
crashanddiewazd: everytime the zune has come out, the creators did something that can only be explained by one thought: "Ok, so basically, we've made the device awesome, now we need to get it up to our regular standard and make it suck HARD, what can we f up?"16:12
RST38hwazd: I actually meant different thing16:12
mihuIs there a know problem with login to I registered on Garage and can login there, but cannot login on
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: um16:12
wazdcrashanddie: hmm, the hype tells me that it's gonna sell well :)16:13
RST38hwazd: People say OLEDs go bad way sooner than LCDs16:13
timeless_mbphow do i call the belarussian embassy in urkraine?16:13
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wazdRST38h: oh, OLED dies16:13
timeless_mbpi don't speak Belarussian or ...16:13
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wazdRST38h: but you know, if it will die in like 5 years, who cares :)16:13
ccookeRST38h: they do, but the worst case - blue - should still last 3-4 years of very heavy use16:13
RST38hwazd: Yea, unfortunately :(16:13
crashanddieRST38h: people also say that they received an email from The Ministry of Defence telling them that a specific phone number is dangerous and will hijack your phone, don't answer it16:13
RST38hcrashanddie: Got the number?16:14
crashanddietimeless_mbp: why do you need the belarussian embassy?16:14
timeless_mbpif i want to visit minsk16:14
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crashanddietimeless_mbp: also, there is none, there's a consulate, at best16:14
timeless_mbpi'll need a visa16:14
RST38hccooke: so the first sign of dying OLED is picture going brownish?16:14
timeless_mbpembassy, consulate, what's the difference? :)16:15
wazdtimeless_mbp: Minsk is in Belarussia, why Ukraine?16:15
timeless_mbpi.e. i don't care about the difference as long as they issue vidas16:15
mgedminmihu: I'm just guessing wildly, but maybe the user database needs to gets synchronized between the two sites; i.e. maybe wait a few minutes and try again?16:15
X-Fademihu: What is your account name on garage?16:15
crashanddieconsulate is a volunteer, unpaid, and usually only open once a week, embassy is a government official16:15
lcukhey VDVsx welcome back!!!16:15
ccookeRST38h: probably. Hard to say.16:15
timeless_mbpwazd: because i'll be in Ukraine on Thursday16:15
lcukhope you enjoyed london and onedotzero and playing on the n900 :D16:15
wazdtimeless_mbp: oh :)16:15
ccookeRST38h: ... Although that does make me feel amused that the Zune is one of the first PMPs using it ;-)16:15
RST38hmoo lcuk16:15
lcukhey RST38h \o16:16
wazdtimeless_mbp: no Moscow in your tour? :D16:16
crashanddieVDVsx: I can't believe we didn't even talk to each other while you were here, standing litterally next to me16:16
mihumgedmin: I says to wait a few minutes, so I tried after ~20 minutes.16:16
RST38hccooke: Have to be different at least in something...16:16
mihuX-Fade: tsbmhu16:16
timeless_mbpwazd: not this one, no16:16
VDVsxlcuk, thanks, was cool :)16:16
crashanddielcuk: o/16:16
ccookeRST38h: bah. The Zune was stealing Ubuntu's looks.16:16
RST38hccooke: Given that the first Zunes were actually Toshibas...16:16
ccookeRST38h: indeed16:16
lcukhey mr bodyguard!  thanks for your help around london seb16:16
RST38hcooke: And had that beautiful semitransparent turd color...16:17
lcukwouldv been lost without you :)16:17
crashanddielcuk: I didn't really do a lot16:17
VDVsxcrashanddie, crashanddie, where ? probably wasn't me :P16:17
crashanddieVDVsx: yeah, was you, in the EAT restaurant? At BFI? :P16:17
* timeless_mbp puzzles16:17
timeless_mbpsomeone check that map for me16:17
timeless_mbpRussia is part of Europe?16:17
threshof course16:17
RST38hwazd: BTW, miracle happened16:17
ccooketimeless_mbp: mostly, yes. Bits of it are parts of Asia.16:18
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threshwait, what?16:18
timeless_mbpccooke: i know that some of Russia is in Europe16:18
threshmostly, no16:18
RST38hwazd: NO MORE LUGGAGE CHECKS for US flights16:18
threshbits of Russia are in Europe16:18
timeless_mbpbut i usually would have said that *most* of Russia is NOT in Europe16:18
wazdRST38h: oh :)16:18
X-Fademihu: Hasn't been synched yet indeed.16:18
threshhave you ever seen a globe?16:18
ccookeWell. Mostly on standard maps. I'm not sure about the balance on equal-areaa maps16:18
crashanddietimeless_mbp: then again, they put afghanistan in "NEAR EAST"16:18
lcukcrashanddie, you were there and listened to me :)16:18
X-Fademihu: Should happen soon.16:18
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: it's unsafe, near east seems fitting :)16:18
threshccooke: your planet differs from mine, it seems16:18
ccooketimeless_mbp: Politically or geologically? :-)16:18
mihuX-Fade: Thanks for checking.16:18
* RST38h prays for Obama's well being16:19
crashanddieoh, and for all you yanks out there: yes, europe stops after germany16:19
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timeless_mbp> foreigners may enter Belarus with up to $10,000 and exit the country with up to $3,000 without submitting a written declaration.16:21
VDVsxcrashanddie, I saw you at the restaurant, but I wasn't in the same table as you were ;)16:21
crashanddietimeless_mbp: so you're basically bound to lose 7k16:22
jaskafor all the bribes16:22
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thopiekarI created a chroot yesterday and I want to use it on my tablet.. is there a how to do that?16:23
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millenomimmm, has anyone found themselves tangling with GCC refusing to see mpfr.h during configure?16:24
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zapmillenomi: have you looked in config.log?16:25
millenomijust a sec, this build script used a separate build dir and I couldn't find it16:26
fiferboylbt: How is the webview finger scrolling going?16:26
millenomistupid Mac fat binaries are stupid.16:27
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KhertanHi !16:27
thopiekarhi Khertan16:27
millenomiexport CC="gcc -arch i386" ftw.16:28
crashanddieyo Khertan16:28
timeless_mbpmillenomi: what about smart mac fat binaries?16:28
thopiekarhow are you?16:28
KhertanStskeeps: still here ?16:28
millenomitimeless_mbp: oh those work very well.16:28
Khertani m fine and you ?16:28
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thopiekarme too thanks, Khertan16:29
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* timeless_mbp cries16:34
* timeless_mbp can't figure out how to get useful information16:34
* timeless_mbp frowns16:34
GeneralAntillesGoddamn Wikipedia16:35
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* timeless_mbp frowns16:36
timeless_mbpMyrtti: you're a finn, right?16:36
timeless_mbpFor immediate assistance, call our Customer Service Centre at 0871 223 5000 , or +44 871 223 5000 (Primary) and +44 203 320 3320 (Secondary) from outside of the UK. Our Customer Service Centre is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week.16:36
Myrttitimeless_mbp: yup16:36
timeless_mbpis my reading of that wrong? i think i tried dilaing the 871 number16:37
infobottimeless_mbp meant: is my reading of that wrong? i think i tried dialing the 871 number16:37
timeless_mbpbut i got ... well, could you call it? :)16:37
* timeless_mbp tries to find a useful phone number for ebookers16:37
RST38hHeh...Nokia's web site hung FireFox16:37
RST38hWhat the hell are they doing with JavaScript there???16:38
timeless_mbpRST38h: something evil, what else is new?16:38
* timeless_mbp sighs16:38
* timeless_mbp can't figure out how to deal w/ this16:38
glassRST38h: they're refactoring the site to break even more links, using your cpu power with js16:39
Myrttitimeless_mbp: the 871 number is the same as the second number16:39
Myrttitimeless_mbp: it just lacks the international UK prefix16:39
timeless_mbphrm, so you're saying that the number is local for England?16:39
Myrttitimeless_mbp: here, you need some coffee16:39
Myrttitimeless_mbp: yes16:39
timeless_mbpcan you find me a number local to finland? :)16:40
* timeless_mbp sighs16:40
Myrttitimeless_mbp: it even says it there on the thing you pasted16:40
timeless_mbpi'm sick :)16:40
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RST38hglass: connecting to the fridge and linking it with the door bell, no doubt...16:40
timeless_mbphrm, my phone knows a number16:41
RST38hall right, time to go16:41
MyrttiCSS at 0871---    , OR        +44871... and +44203 from outside uk16:41
Myrttitimeless_mbp: for all I can see, there is no number local to finland16:41
timeless_mbpMyrtti: heh16:41
thopiekarwanna mount a file with a ext3 fs on my tablet but get this: mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on /chroot faild ..16:42
timeless_mbpthere's a number, since my phone knows the number16:42
thopiekardo you know why?16:42
thopiekar* as root16:42
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timeless_mbpthe first busy signal i get is calling what should be the belarus embassy in the DC.US16:46
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mihuX-Fade: Another 30 minutes have passed and I still cannot login. Is there something you can do for me?16:47
* timeless_mbp finds a secondary number16:48
crashanddietimeless_mbp: you tried the one in Kiev?16:50
crashanddieno answer?16:50
timeless_mbpno English?16:52
timeless_mbpi must have taken a wrong turn in the menu16:52
timeless_mbpi just spoke with someone at the Belarus Embassy in DC and he said that someone on the phone should have been able to answer in English16:53
crashanddiejust keep pressing 0 until you hear a human voice16:53
timeless_mbphas a whole set of things i'll need16:53
crashanddie"secondary passport" from some island16:53
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: 0 doesn't seem to work well in certain countries16:53
crashanddie"Dominica Passport Single Applicant Fees are only US$75,000 + Legal Fees & Background Checks"16:53
timeless_mbpwhere's that?16:53
zerojaySpeak louder and slower. They will understand.16:54
crashanddie"St. Kitts Passport Single Applicant Fee is US$35,000 + Investment of US$350,000 + Legal Fees & Background Checks"16:54
* timeless_mbp frowns16:54
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timeless_mbpso I guess I want a Type C visa16:54
crashanddiesure, I'll just get a secondary passport for half a million bucks16:54
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: where are you reading?16:54
MyrttiOne Can Always Read Wrong16:55
crashanddiejust some website, nevermind16:55
Myrtti"St. Kittens Passport Single Applicant Fee..."16:55
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* timeless_mbp frowns16:55
timeless_mbpso, is a single Entry visa really a good idea?16:55
timeless_mbpor am i going to get in trouble?16:56
timeless_mbphrm, it's only 160 EUR assuming they're not doing evil stuff on the exchange16:56
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crashanddiesingle entry?16:57
crashanddiewell, yeah, you're alone, right?16:57
crashanddiethen unless you want to buddy up for the costs, yeah16:57
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timeless_mbpi assume that entry = my ability to enter the country16:57
timeless_mbpso if i enter and leave, i can't return16:57
crashanddieIIRC, it's for the number of people who require the visa16:58
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crashanddieor maybe not16:59
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crashanddietimeless_mbp: after reading that page more intently, it would appear you are correct17:00
crashanddie"isas can be issued upon submitting a certified cable from a doctor"17:01
crashanddiewait, what?17:01
crashanddieDoctors issue cables?17:01
timeless_mbpthey're like telegraphs, only different17:01
* timeless_mbp frowns17:03
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* timeless_mbp sighs17:04
* timeless_mbp needs to figure out this calendar too17:05
timeless_mbpif i'm in Ukraine for ~10 days, then when would i actually be in Belarus?17:05
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timeless_mbpthis is so not working17:07
crashanddietimeless_mbp: you do realise that we're not actually *all* your PA?17:07
crashanddieso asking questions about *your* calendar isn't very helpful17:07
timeless_mbpplanning agency?17:07
crashanddieprivate assistant17:07
crashanddietimeless_mbp: kiev got a lot of interesting stuff to visit17:08
timeless_mbpyeah sure17:09
crashanddieseriously, just hire a bike (ok, maybe a bit hard, considering I didn't see a single bike over there) and just take off17:09
timeless_mbpbut hrm17:09
timeless_mbpwell, i don't have a driver's license17:09
* timeless_mbp ponders17:09
timeless_mbpso... my goal is to spend ~15 days in ~3 countries17:09
timeless_mbpand it seems pretty clear i've screwed up my planning entirely17:10
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timeless_mbpbecause at this point belarus seems impractical17:10
* timeless_mbp ponders17:10
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crashanddiejust do poland then17:10
crashanddieor hire a car and go down to the sea (about 8h drive though)17:11
timeless_mbpok, so, maybe kiev  (5 days) => warsaw (?) => krakow () => prague (must be there by oct 3)17:11
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crashanddiewhen are you leaving?17:12
mihuI wanted to register for the Maemo summit. I created an account for Garage, and now can login and visit the registration site for the waiting list. But I cannot enter anything into fields like "Job title" or "Country". It seems this is automatically filled in, but I cannot find the settings either in Garage nor on the Maemo site for my account. Where can I change these settings?17:13
crashanddiemihu: you can modify job title during the request17:14
crashanddiemihu: I just did17:14
mihucrashanddie: So just with "Next" skip to the next page and then change the stuff there?17:14
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timeless_mbpi fly to ukraine thursday17:15
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timeless_mbpmihu: should let you edit your profile17:15
crashanddiemihu: There's a page where you can change everything (the same one where they ask the information about the sponsorship request)17:15
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I'd recommend you travel either early saturday morning or monday evening17:16
mihutimeless_mbp: Ah, thanks. Somehow I managed to skip this during registration. Thanks for your help.17:17
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: travel where?17:18
timeless_mbpand note that i don't travel on saturdays :)17:18
crashanddietimeless_mbp: to warsaw or krakow17:18
mihucrashanddie: After updating my profile, now I can change all settings on the registration page. Thanks for your help.17:19
timeless_mbpi probably should travel tuesday (or monday night) from kiev to warsaw or krakow17:20
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i'm probably up for a meet if you come past warsaw but currently don't have a couch to provide :P17:20
Stskeepsif i am not abroad, that is17:21
timeless_mbpassume monday night17:21
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timeless_mbpi'd need to travel thursday night from one of krakow/warsaw to the other17:21
timeless_mbpthat leaves me in one of them for that weekend17:21
Stskeepsmm, i'm gone sunday-the next monday17:22
timeless_mbpthen i have a bit of free time (i.e. i messed up again) before i magic to prague on thursday/friday17:22
timeless_mbpok, redo :)17:22
GeneralAntillesDamn typos.17:23
GeneralAntillesTrying to multitask isn't working out today.17:23
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* timeless_mbp coughs17:33
* timeless_mbp really needs to visit the doctor17:33
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* Stskeeps is curled up under his duvet with tea, tablet and the simpsons on media centre17:37
* millenomi fights with the Apple linker.17:38
Stskeepsubuntu vm may be saner17:39
millenomithe idea is that CT integrates with Xcode, so I'm trying not to deviate from its expected environment too much.17:39
millenomiI just modified the target to arm-none-linux-gnueabi17:39
thopiekargot my chroot now mounted on my tablet but when I want start it via "~# chroot /chroot " the term says >> cannot execute /bin/sh: Exec format error17:40
timeless_mbpwouldn't you want to use a cross linker?17:40
thopiekarwhats the problem?17:40
Stskeepsthopiekar: what is in the chroot?17:41
timeless_mbpthopiekar: file /chroot/bin/sh17:41
millenomino, it's GCC compilation (linking GCC itself on the host) that is slightly broken. nothing that cannot be changed by careful editing of the makefiles.17:41
Stskeepsand what timeless_mbp said17:41
millenomiall the fun re: cross-compiling has yet to start :)17:41
thopiekarubuntu-minimal + avr-compiler + java for the arduinoIDE..17:41
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Stskeepsthopiekar: that sounds x86ish17:42
millenomithe tablet isn't x86 :)17:42
timeless_mbpmillenomi: there you go taking the fun out of it17:42
millenomior I would have had a much easier time doing the mad thing I'm doing :)17:43
thopiekar> file: file not found..17:43
millenomiI'm all about strangling the fun in its infancy.17:43
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thopiekarso I need to install bash on the tablet or sh in the chroot isn'T it?17:43
Stskeepsthopiekar: apt-get install file17:43
thopiekaron the tab. , Stskeeps17:44
timeless_mbpfile /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh17:44
timeless_mbpthopiekar: whereever you wanted to run 'file' ...17:44
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thopiekarsh: file: not found , on my device17:45
thopiekarso k I install it now on my chroot17:45
Stskeepsthopiekar: you are trying to use x86 binaries on arm, which is futile..17:46
Stskeepsmight work with qemu, but it's insane17:46
thopiekaraah I know what you want to hear from me.. "use Mer instead" :D17:47
timeless_mbpmore like "oh, i get it, boy what i was trying to do was stupid"17:47
thopiekar:P, timeless_mbp17:47
Stskeepsthopiekar: no, x86 under arm is insane under mer too17:47
timeless_mbpapt-get install file on the tablet17:47
timeless_mbpchroot doesn't magically change architecture17:48
timeless_mbpbut to understand that, you need to have file working somewhere (i,e, tablet)17:48
timeless_mbpso, back to that schedule17:48
timeless_mbpi could use my blank spot for bratislava17:49
thopiekark installed file and linked busybox and dash17:49
timeless_mbpfile /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh17:49
timeless_mbpwell read the output?17:49
thopiekar/bin/sh: symlink to busybox17:50
thopiekar/chroot/bin/sh: symlink to dash17:50
Stskeepsfile /bin/dash17:51
thopiekarlol # which dash > ""17:52
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thopiekarfile /bin/dash: can not open /bin/dash17:52
timeless_mbpfile /bin/busybox17:52
timeless_mbpfile /chroot/bin/dash17:52
Stskeepsfile /bin/busybox17:52
Stskeepser. yeah.17:52
* timeless_mbp kicks file for being annoying17:53
timeless_mbpfile -L /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh17:53
* timeless_mbp kicks file for not being posix17:54
timeless_mbpPOSIXLY_CORRECT=1 file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh17:54
timeless_mbp(for people who like posix)17:54
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thopiekarok I install openssh now17:55
mgedminopenssh rules17:56
mgedminand so does avahi17:56
mgedminexcept avahi's init scripts are started waaaay too early by default17:56
millenomiBonjour/mDNS/Zeroconf implementation for Linux.17:57
thopiekarStskeeps: before taking to much time with that..17:59
thopiekarDoes Mer have ttyUSB0 support?17:59
thopiekarI mean Serial USB support?17:59
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thopiekarPOSIXLY_CORRECT=1 file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh18:00
thopiekarPOSIXLY_CORRECT=1 file /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh18:00
mgedminthopiekar: we heard the first time, thank you18:00
thopiekarsorry mgedmin :/18:01
thopiekar - /bin/sh:        symbolic link to `busybox'18:01
thopiekar- /chroot/bin/sh: symbolic link to `dash'18:01
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timeless_mbpbah, use -L ?18:02
timeless_mbp       This manual page, and particularly this section, is too long.18:02
timeless_mbpok, what gives?18:03
timeless_mbpPOSIXLY_CORRECT is in the file man page on a linux box i have18:03
thopiekarfile -L /bin/sh /chroot/bin/sh18:04
thopiekar- /bin/sh:        ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped18:04
thopiekar- /chroot/bin/sh: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped18:04
timeless_mbpsounds like your shell was stupid wrt POSIXLY_CORRECT18:04
timeless_mbpon a non lame shell, that'd have worked18:04
timeless_mbpanyway, hopefully this output from file will explain the problem18:05
timeless_mbpok, so... kiev, warsaw, krakow, bratislava18:06
timeless_mbpthat doesn't seem too bad18:06
thopiekarbtw. if catched that false.. I will be not able to chroot into it until it'S x86?18:06
thopiekar^ timeless_mbp18:06
timeless_mbpif your system is arm, then you can generally only run arm binaries18:07
thopiekarah ok :)18:07
timeless_mbpchroot doesn't change the processor of your hardware18:07
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timeless_mbpit just changes the paths that your software sees18:07
timeless_mbpqemu and friends can change the hardware that software sees18:07
thopiekarthanks, timeless_mbp18:07
timeless_mbpbut the cost is incredibly high18:07
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: ping :)18:14
Corsacand qemu doesn't really support omap318:14
Corsaceven the qemu-omap3 project18:14
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millenomiduh, is there anything GCC can't do? (cross-compilin', cross-compilin')18:15
timeless_mbpmillenomi: generate decent code?18:15
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millenomiah, that, yes.18:15
timeless_mbpgenerate debuggable code?18:16
luke-jrGCC can't compile x86/arm/etc into another architecture18:16
timeless_mbpfully support c99?18:16
* timeless_mbp isn't sure about that last one18:16
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timeless_mbpmaybe c++201x18:16
millenomiall that stops me from cross-compiling this runtime to ARM is a tiny speck of assembly code that I shall now research and rewrite.18:16
crashanddietimeless_mbp: meh, who cares about c9918:17
crashanddietimeless_mbp: the new C is c2009!18:17
* luke-jr writes his C in C9918:17
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crashanddieI write my apps directly through cat | gcc18:18
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mavhcgcc does cross compile, the risc os people do it that way18:20
* mgedmin used gcc < /dev/stdin on a couple of occasions18:22
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RST38hAh, shitload of newly open Maemo job vacancies!18:42
RST38hBe careful, it hangs browsers18:42
lbtso it does18:43
GiantTalkingCowWell that's a bit counterproductive, to say the least.18:45
zerojayThey all expect far too much experience.18:45
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jaskayeah, you need M.Sc. to mop floors there18:46
zerojayLook at your own link.18:46
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RST38hYou mean the +18years thing?18:46
RST38h+16, sorry18:46
jaska+18 on what i saw18:47
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lbtwhat's wrong with that?18:47
RST38hNot all of them. Besides, I have got about that much =)18:47
zerojayNothing unless they want to fill the positions.18:48
RST38hwazd: Hey, they are looking for UI graphics designer ;)18:48
jaskawell, around here people tend to be overeducated (which says nothing about their skills, those vary wildly)18:48
* RST38h is kinda suspicious about the +/- sign before those 18 years though =)18:49
RST38hWill negative experience do?18:49
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jaskawhat does negative experience mean, visual basic?18:49
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RST38hOr maybe they expect to keep you locked up and working for them until you reach 18 years of experience...18:50
RST38hBUT, gentlemen, may it be that the +/-18 means that your degree has to be earned no farther than 18 years ago?18:50
rm_youGeneralAntilles: ping18:51
wazdRST38h: yeah, I kinda fit but I have no grade and I'm too young :(18:51
jaska0 years of education and ~7 years of experience, so no point in even looking there18:51
GeneralAntillesrm_you, pong?18:51
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you going to be at this summit? >_>18:51
GeneralAntillesrm_you, yeah.18:51
rm_youfinally :P18:51
RST38hwazd: Well, the "Head of..." vacancy is beyond reach, but maybe they are also looking for UI designer in general? (not for the manager type)18:51
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* GeneralAntilles still needs a roommate.18:52
RST38hfemale roommate no doubt18:52
rm_youoh, wanna look at my travel arrangements and verify that they're accurate?18:52
rm_youneed to email kaleva and confirm18:52
RST38hsays no longer available18:52
wazdRST38h: strange :)18:53
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm up for it but you'd prolly end up murdering me in your sleep  ;)18:53
wazdRST38h: well, type "maemo" in keywords here:
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RST38hOk, +/-18 thing is a dummy.18:53
RST38hwazd: I just did, got a list18:53
wazdRST38h: 7th position18:53
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, what, do you recite the periodic table in your sleep or something? ;)18:53
RST38hIn job descriptions they clearly specify "5 years of experience"18:54
wazdRST38h: and yeah, 18 +/- is a little confusing :D18:54
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: naah.a18:54
jaska18 years of education and 5 years of exp on top of that?:)18:54
RST38hwazd: The Principal thing will most likely kill your application. BUT, there are more graphics design jobs in the list18:54
wazdjaska: jeez :D18:54
rm_youI'll prolly end up rooming with johnx if he goes, but dunno yet if he's getting sponsored18:55
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wazdRST38h: well, I can at least make coffee for UX Team :D18:56
RST38hwazd: Yes, poisoning the UX team may be a good strategic move18:57
wazdRST38h: I don't have an example of a good CV though to apply :(18:58
GeneralAntilleswazd, who knows, they may be fans of your Mermagotchi. :P19:00
wazdGeneralAntilles: they definitely are :P19:00
wazd(Senior) Designer, Graphic Design-HEL000001WJ19:02
wazdthat's the right thing I guess19:03
RST38hmore or less19:03
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wazd3 years of design experience, AP, AI, AF, info design, UI/UX, good eye, design documentation, fluent English. Additionaly web design, localization, portfolio :)19:05
GeneralAntillesDo it.19:06
RST38hdefinitely will do19:06
RST38hand get the freaking travel passport ASAP19:06
wazdRST38h: working on it :)19:07
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RST38h and check the most-read column on the right (aka "why I like TheRegister)19:11
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Corsacthe swedish one?19:16
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RST38hoh, just any of 'em19:17
RST38hFrom the giant man-eating eagle to the Germans satisfying their latex needs with dandelions...19:18
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* RST38h wonders why doing it the old-fashioned way is not longer acceptable19:21
Corsaclike, directly with the donor?19:22
RST38hBTW, remember how we were all told that "because N900 is a phone, it needs smaller display to be comfortable"?19:22
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RST38hHere, HTC prototype with a 4.3" 800x480 display:
aSIMULAterRST38h: lol19:23
GeneralAntillesRST38h, how many normal people do you think would buy that, though?19:23
RST38hGeneral: I would (if not for WinMo) but I am not normal by any measure19:23
GeneralAntillesThe idea is that in order to appeal to a more mainstream (and, thus, substantially larger) customer base, a 3.5" screen is a more reasonable proposition.19:24
RST38hIt does not look too uncomfortable though, if it is thin19:24
GeneralAntillesWhich doesn't preclude a Maemo device with a larger display in the future.19:24
RST38hhopefully, yes19:24
GeneralAntillesIt's just not something that they're going to launch their new high-end platform with first.19:24
penguinbaitI concur19:24
penguinbait"hopefully yes"19:24
RST38hand, btw, the biggest problem will be not the physical screen size19:24
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RST38hbut the ability to adapt to any screen resolution19:24
RST38hThis fixation at 800x480 is not good for the platform19:25
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mavhcstretchy screens needed19:26
GeneralAntillesRST38h, resolution independence was on the roadmap years ago.19:26
GeneralAntillesIt's probably still a consideration.19:26
RST38hGeneral: And it was even shown to work a few times19:27
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Stskeepsresolution indepence is trivial19:28
RST38hSts: Only if all your stock apps can resize themselves19:29
RST38hOtherwise, it is PITA x <number of apps>19:29
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penguinbaitis there a way to get alternate screen resolutions on video out on the n900 or is it still 800x480?19:31
RST38hrotate it :)19:31
RST38hinstant alternate resolution19:31
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RST38hpenguin: the tv encoder works off the main screen buffer, so the only way to do that is to change the main resolution. Also, don't want to disappoint, but analog video has some inherent problems with anything >640x48019:33
RST38hWith NTSC starting to have color problems at widths >256 pixels19:33
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SpeedEvilI'm unsure if mono output at high res may work19:38
SpeedEvilIt's not implausible - but you'd need an adaptor19:38
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RST38hAhha, Murtazin appears to be preparing another N900 article. But he is now really negative on N900.19:41
RST38hCalling it niche device, etc.19:41
* RST38h off19:41
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SpeedEvilIt _is_ a niche device19:44
SpeedEvilAt least - compared to phones.19:44
Stskeepsa phone you can stay all day in a niche with19:44
Stskeepswithout getting bored19:44
* GeneralAntilles already has a niche, just needs the phone now.19:45
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SpeedEvilBut it's not going to be outselling the iphone this time next week. :)19:46
infobotSpeedEvil meant: But it's not going to be outselling the iphone this time next month. :)19:46
GeneralAntillesSure, but who cares?19:46
SpeedEvilI care. I'd like it to be volume.19:47
GeneralAntillesCompared to the cellular market at large, the iPhone is a niche too.19:47
SpeedEvilIt's still one of the larger selling individual phone models19:47
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GeneralAntillesYou know how many enV3's I've seen in the past 6 months?19:48
SpeedEvilI mean - if it wasn't niche - I might be able to afford it.19:48
SpeedEvilI mean - if it was available through carriers.19:48
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SpeedEvilAs currently through the UKs pricing scheme - I would pay as much for a suitable contract with internet with or without a phone. And the phones available are perhaps 1/3 the price of the device19:49
SpeedEvilAnd yes, this does suck - but...19:50
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GeneralAntillesUS, too.19:51
GeneralAntillesWhatever, I just want a usable phone.19:51
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millenomijust one thing: anyone knows a replacement for __sync_bool_compare_and_swap that runs on ARM in general and on Maemo tablets in particular?19:51
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SpeedEvilMe too - but for me usable includes being able to afford :)19:52
GeneralAntillesGive it 6 months.19:52
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Corsacin 6 months n910 will be announced19:53
SpeedEvilI can see the price dropping - but I'd be surprised if the networks are carrying it.19:53
SpeedEvil(delighted - but surprised)19:53
lcukGeneralAntilles, as a phone its splendid19:53
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lcukseamless text message conversations19:54
lcukive actually started txting people :$19:54
aSIMULAteryou like sms conversation view? :)19:54
millenomiif anyone can answer the above question, it means I just ported Cocotron's pretty modern Objective-C and Foundation runtime to Maemo.19:54
lcukaSIMULAter, sms messaging on any previous device has been "oh shit what did they say" and hope i remember19:54
lcuknow its a conversation :)19:55
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* aSIMULAter is happy you like it19:55
lcukaSIMULAter, did you create/have a part in it19:55
millenomi(in fact, I replaced that call with a thread-unsafe macro and I'm going to see if the toolchain produced an actually working executable.)19:55
lcukcos there is a bug..19:55
aSIMULAterwhat bug?19:55
lcukhahaha you wanna pm19:55
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Khertan_n810Hi again19:55
Khertan_n810 <-- it could be interesting for maemo if not coded in mono :(19:56
millenomi/join #gcc19:57
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millenomiwhoops o_O19:57
millenomihow did it not become a command?19:57
SpeedEvilmillenomi: you're spraying random chars everywhere19:57
Khertan_n810not a /19:57
millenomiew, sorry, didn't mean to19:57
SpeedEvilfor example - after 'foundation' - you have a 001c unicode box19:57
SpeedEvilmillenomi: maybe that's it19:57
SpeedEvilmillenomi: doesn't bother - I was just meaning that's maybe the reason19:58
millenomiyep, it probably is19:58
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crashanddiethere's a couple of smartypanties who thought it'd be fun to pretend they were in antartica20:01
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mgedminand someone is at +0+020:01
mgedminI think20:02
Sho_KDE used to have a similar map20:02
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I see nobody wants you as a roommate20:02
mgedminno, it was a different version of that map that I remember on the wiki20:02
Sho_Not been updated in an eterinity, though, I think20:02
crashanddiethe newspaper I was supposed to start writing for is closing shop before they even published my first column :(20:03
qwerty12crashanddie: That's because he'll kill anyone using Maemo/ in the wrong context20:03
* mgedmin remembers that +0+0 is in the ocean, since that's what Maemo Mapper used to do if you pressed "center on gps location" before it got a fix20:03
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SpeedEviloff africa20:04 rules, and don't forget the maemo council ;)20:04
* GeneralAntilles is bringing some liquid nitrogen and a trout just for that purpose.20:04
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: is website + community? Then there is Maemo Council, and Maemo software project?20:05
penguinbait#@$^$%^% there is no "maemo council"  It is the "maemo community council" cmon people20:06
crashanddiewhat's that I hear? Someone killing a trout?20:06 is the website and the brand identity for the community, the Maemo Community is the community, the Maemo Community Council is its elected representatives and Maemo Devices works on Maemo the software platform.20:06
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mgedminand we all eat Maemo Pancakes for breakfast20:07
millenomi <--- an ObjC binary running under FREMANTLE_ARMEL20:07
qwerty12And smoke Maemo Weed, and go with Maemo Hookers20:07
GeneralAntillesSadly not since the FDA recalled them.20:07
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Khertan_n810millenomi .... still no cocoa framework ? :)20:08
penguinbaitGee Qwerty, already got a plan eh!20:08
millenomiit has Foundation20:08
crashanddieqwerty12: oh, so sweet, you first times with both of those will be at a Maemo event, you truly are dedicated20:08
millenomiFoundation's the lower part of Cocoa -- ie everything except the UI20:08
millenomiwhich I would not do using AppKit anyway on a mobile thingie.20:08
qwerty12crashanddie, penguinbait: You assume that I'm going :p20:08
crashanddieqwerty12: i didn't say this one20:09
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millenomiso, for all intents and purposes, ObjC/Cocoa works on Maemo now. You're all welcome.20:09
millenomiand I can port my app over, yay.20:09
crashanddieqwerty12: you're still a virgin, you can wait a couple more years until the summit comes to London20:09
penguinbaitI went camping and it was intents20:09
qwerty12crashanddie: None of the next events are in Amsterdam. :)20:09
Stskeepsmillenomi: woo :)20:09
qwerty12crashanddie: I've told you before, your hand doesn't count20:09
crashanddieqwerty12: like you can't find weed or hookers in London20:09
Khertan_n810millinomi: no you can do a printf 'hello word' in cocoa :)20:10
Stskeepsmillenomi: post on talk.* about it20:10
millenomiI have no idea what talk.* is.20:10
crashanddiemillenomi: talk.marmo.org20:10
crashanddiemaemo pirate edition20:10
Khertan_n810talk.* the place where everybody whine :)20:11
penguinbaitI got a peg leg and the end of my stump20:11
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Stskeepsmillenomi: that, or maemo-developers20:15
Khertan_n810lol 20 people is wearing a mask in the train car where am i20:15
Khertan_n810paranoiac mode20:15
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zerojayScientology raid.20:15
Khertan_n810and one is washing is hand with antiseptic solution20:15
crashanddieKhertan_n810: c'est juste parceque tu pues20:16
zerojayT'es ben gentil, crash. ;)20:16
Khertan_n810crashanddie: ca peut pas etre pire que le parfum de la grnognasse derriere moi20:16
Khertan_n810c est immonde20:17
crashanddienan mais j'l'aime bien le p'ti rideau ;)20:17
crashanddieKhertan_n810: how are we supposed to pronounce your nick, btw?20:17
crashanddiebecause, most people I know just say "curtain"20:17
Khertan_n810good question :)20:17
qwerty12J'deteste Français20:17
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Khertan_n810qwerty12: why ? because every rules is an exception ?20:18
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crashanddieet voila, ca c'est fait, maintenant on va pouvoir se foutre de la gueule du p'ti qwerty12, et le pauvre va rien bitter de c'qu'on vautre dans un bon p'ti dialecte, et si on a d'la chance, il va se faire des films, le pauvre20:19
qwerty12Khertan_n810: I couldn't "get" the language and failed, badly, at it :)20:19
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qwerty12But my aptitude for languages is pretty shitty anyway and I'd be hard pressed to speak something that is not English20:19
crashanddieconsidering you're already hard pressed speaking just "normal" English :P20:20
Khertan_n810for my nick : i will say Care Tane ... :)20:20
qwerty12crashanddie: it could be worse - I could be speaking northerner20:21
Khertan_n810crashanddie:  je vaios pas trop critiquer vu mon anglais a deux balles20:21
crashanddieit's funny cuz these days most people think I'm south african20:21
zerojayYour english isn't that bad, khertan.20:21
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zerojayAt least not here.20:22
* Khertan_n810 remember is phone conferences two weeks ago, with an texan20:22
qwerty12Indeed, I can understand what you say.20:22
crashanddieKhertan_n810: oh, those are the worst20:22
crashanddieKhertan_n810: try having a phone conf with an indian guy, a russian, an australian and a german20:22
Khertan_n810specially when speaker is too small and the is cut in the voip20:23
Khertan_n810add a portuges :)20:23
crashanddieyou're too small to pass through VoIP?20:23
GeneralAntillesThere's too much crap to catch up on since I stopped paying attention to computers.20:23
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AndrewFBlackanyone know how a theme made using theme maker can be uploaded to extras as a non-free package?20:26
crashanddieBoss just announced I have to attend a team meeting in the US next month20:26
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qwerty12crashanddie: Just did some "hand-action"?20:27
qwerty12crashanddie: ah20:27
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crashanddieand for "budgetary reasons, all EMEA personel will have to stay over the weekend and flights will be arranged from Tuesday"20:27
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crashanddie3 days of partying in SF, wooohoooo20:27
crashanddie(and paid for by company)20:27
elninjaI wonder how difficult it would be to get Fallout or Fallout 2 running on the n810...20:28
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Khertan_try_3andrewfblack: why did you wan to upload it as non-free ? are you making really a non-free theme ?20:30
GeneralAntilleselninja, good luck.20:30
penguinbait1 smart fella, and he felt smart - two smart fella's and they felt smart - three smart fellas and they all felt smart..20:30
AndrewFBlackKhertan_try_3, because as I under stand it theme make themes have to go as non-free since it doesnt make a full source deb20:31
Khertan_try_3et la chaussette de l archiduchesse ?20:31
Khertan_try_3hum ... if it s just the problem, send me your deb and i ll explain you how to do a full source deb with py2deb20:32
Khertan_try_3so you ll be able to upload it to extras as a free package20:33
Khertan_try_3@ == _at_20:34
AndrewFBlackok I'll send t20:34
AndrewFBlackI"ve never uploaded any of my themes to extras because i was to lazy to figure out how but its about time I learn20:35
AndrewFBlackdeb sent20:35
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Khertan_try_4[19:32] <Khertan_try_3> hum ... if it s just the problem, send me your deb and i ll explain you how to do a full source deb with py2debn[19:32] <Khertan_try_3> so you ll be able to upload it to extras as a free packagen[19:32] <Khertan_try_3> :)n[19:33] <Khertan_try_3> khertan_at_khertan.netn[19:33] <Khertan_try_3> @ == _at_n[19:33] <Khertan_try_3> :)20:36
Khertan_try_4sorry the 3g network coverage isn t good here20:36
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luke-jrKhertan_try_4: the only thing that didn't get thru was the :)20:37
Khertan_try_4oh thx20:37
crashanddieSlashdot about "Making science popular again": "We must all rally toward a single goal: without sacrificing the growth of knowledge or scientific innovation, we must invest in a sweeping project to make science relevant to the whole of America's citizenry."20:37
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crashanddieHow about making burgers and fries an official and mandatory class in the US?20:38
crashanddieThat'll get youth thriving20:38
Khertan_try_4Restricted too America ... not a quite good start :)20:39
crashanddiein this day and age, anyone who thinks in ideas restricted by countries' borders is a plonker, an idiot, or a liberal democrat20:40
Khertan_try_4class Burger:20:40
crashanddie(not that there is a big difference between the 3, but still, no generalisations please)20:40
luke-jrcrashanddie: I would think liberals tend to favour abolishing borders, assuming they're aware of the existence...20:41
crashanddieluke-jr: nooooooooo20:42
crashanddieluke-jr: lib-dems only want YOUR BRAAAAAAIIINNNS20:42
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luke-jrit's usually the neo-cons that are most America-centric20:42
crashanddiecons are the best in the world20:42
penguinbaitmore brains20:42
luke-jrconservatives are a very small minority. neo-cons are just liberals who like to think of themselves as conservative20:43
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crashanddiehow can you be a small minority?20:43
crashanddieHow hard is it to be a big minority?20:43
crashanddie"Yes, the blacks in Africa are a very large minority"20:43
luke-jrEnglish fail20:43
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crashanddiegoing home, see you in a bit20:44
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luke-jr49% is a large minority.20:45
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mojocafeciao ciao bella ciaoooo !20:55
mojocafeciao everyone how the french people say! lol... just kidding.20:55
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chxMi diranno Che bel fior!20:56
chxthat's one surprisingly beautiful song.20:56
mojocafeciao chx.... commo stai !? ..... well that is all i know in italian20:56
chxi dont know italian20:56
millenomimojocafe: I don't know if I should be flattered or mildly insulted.20:56
chxthat does not stop me from enjoying the song.20:56
mojocafechx: wich song?20:56
chxthat you started to sing?20:56
mojocafeah, you mean ciao bella ciao20:56
mojocaferight right, now i got you.20:56
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millenomiit's a very, very sad song. though the Modena City Ramblers do it a LOT of justice.20:58
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mojocafeok guys - i am desperatly trying to find a way to learn to script for maemo. but the biggest problem i have is that i am working on a thing called "computer with windows XP" *sigh*20:59
mojocafeso how can i develop maemo stuff on it ?20:59
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millenomigrab Ubuntu and install it in a VM21:00
mojocafethat might work?21:01
mojocafewhat VM would you suggest ?21:01
millenomiI'm using VirtualBox on a Mac21:02
millenomiit works rather well and it's free21:02
mojocafedoes it also work with XP ?21:02
mojocafewhy isn't there a VB for DOS ?21:03
jaskathere is21:03
jaskaah, thought you meant visual basic21:03
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mojocafe10 print ":D"21:04
mojocafe20 goto 1021:04
mojocafestrange.... does not work in here !21:04
mojocafeif i would like to develop my own web browser, is there someting i can relay on ?21:05
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lcukmojocafe, internet explorer works21:07
lcukjust incorporate the activex into your app21:07
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penguinbaitshutdown -h now21:07
lcukhiya penguinbait :D21:08
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lcukyou seen any of the onedotzero stuff :D21:08
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mojocafelcuk: ok, theorticaly i understand that. but i realy have to do it step by step. ... lcuk... wait, you think in VB ? nah, i want to develo it for maemo :D21:10
lcukshhhh my liq* ideas start as vb screens ;)21:10
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GeneralAntillesmojocafe, just grab the Maemo SDK VM.21:12
lcukmojocafe, agreed there21:12
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mojocafeHi General, nice to see ya after so long.21:12
lcukbut isnt a whole browser off the cuff quite an undertaking21:12
* lcuk knows21:13
mojocafelcuk: well my attempt is to develop something that "grabs the adobe flash active-x or whatever" so that i could develop a mojocafe starting application.21:13
lcuki told you about a hack that does that already21:13
lcukproblem is, flash binary is closed21:14
lcukso you wouldnt know how to interface it21:14
mojocafelcuk: yeah but that was like jewish scrambled up with chinese ... so i wanted to get closer to it21:14
lcukthe maemo getting started guide on the device is a flash thing21:14
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wiretappedmojocafe: import webkit21:14
wiretappedor gtkmozembed21:15
wiretappedlooks pretty easy21:15
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* unixSnob considers offering a bounty for a Maemo video game -- throwing shoes at Bush21:15
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millenomicode available for Cocoa on Maemo:
mojocafewire: THAT looks definitly easy. ..... i am installing virtual box now to get a step closer21:16
wiretapped looks slightly less easy21:17
mojocafevirtualbox axes (!) me for an OS and a version. Os= linux but what version would you recommend to install the maemo sdk ?21:18
mojocafeubuntu ?21:18
mojocafeor might there be a smaller one?21:19
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AndrewFBlackKhertan, You around21:28
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millenomimojocafe: I gave Ubuntu eight gigs and IIRC it took around three21:34
millenomiwith plenty of space for me to program in.21:34
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lcukhey keesj \o21:44
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mojocafehaha... i just developed the most minimalistic digital clock in text (mojo id 26)21:56
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mojocafefifty i meant21:57
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fnordianslipmojocafe: cool21:58
mojocafethanks but.... well, uncool if you want to know the exact time. but i was too lazy now to write one to sixty :D21:58
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fnordianslipi'm a fan of ddate myself21:58
mojocafefnordian: what is ddate ?21:59
crashanddie_mojocafe, that's pretty lame21:59
SpeedEvilYou know you're tired when you type ddate and spend 30s trying to parse it21:59
SpeedEvilI thought I was OK until that point.21:59
fnordiansliptry it on any linux box (perhaps excepting a NIT)21:59
SpeedEvilbash-3.1$ ddate21:59
SpeedEvilToday is Boomtime, the 38th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 317521:59
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keesjPUSH sounds like a fun project21:59
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mojocafelol... i just wikied ddate.... shall i make a mojo out of it !?22:00
mojocafewell the problem is that a lot of people won't understand it.... but it sounds awesome.22:00
fnordianslipmojocafe: reckon so22:00
SpeedEvilIf only wikipedias 'on this day' was a bit more populated.22:01
mojocafei never heard about ddate before.... it sounds more important to me then the swatch internet time.22:01
fnordianslipoh it is22:01
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SpeedEvilYou could set stuff to give you news headlines for 280 years ago, and your date to show as that.22:01
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mojocafeoh my gosh... i am running ubunto through a VB for the first time...... this is soooo exsiting !22:05
mojocafeubunto = ubuntu22:05
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penguinbaitexsiting = exciting ;)22:07
mojocafekee_ virtualbox.22:08
mojocafepeng: thnx22:08
keesjon maemo?22:08
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mojocafeno on XP.22:08
mojocafesorry. i am a noob.22:08
keesjI see you are experiencing a linux enligthenment moment, enjoy it!22:10
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mojocafeekeesj: nah, i allready know and love ubuntu. but i had it as "ubunto on a stick" so it never was very safe. i am just trying out for the first time how virtualbox works like  so that i might be able to install the maemo sdk on it.22:12
mojocafe... why the hell am i typing ubunto !???? geesus who is responsible for all these errors in the matrix nowadays !?22:13
penguinbaitall those developers getting an early start in Amsterdam22:13
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Stskeepsmore important, did you sign up and optionally request sponsorship?22:15
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penguinbaitnot me22:20
bulfaiterI'm installing an ubuntu server vm image from within esbox, but the maemo/maemo login/password doesn't work for me22:20
lcukkeesj, i presented liqbase playground stuff in the push presentation yesterday22:20
AndrewFBlackhow long does it take for a package to show up in extras-dlevel22:20
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lcukthe stuff there was wicked smart!22:21
lcukthey had a rolodex22:21
crashanddie_bulfaiter, check the keyboard layout22:21
lcukthat when you turned the hardware an onscreen card turned22:21
bulfaitercrashanddie_: ok, will try copy & pasting22:21
bulfaiterdoesn't work, either22:22
lcukAndrewFBlack, did you get your "passed autobuilder" mail22:22
crashanddie_bulfaiter, ok, could you go into a bit more detail? You gave virtually no information, and just go "doesn't work"22:23
AndrewFBlacklcuk, yeah22:23
crashanddie_AndrewFBlack, ?22:23
bulfaiterOk: I downloaded esbox for mac OS X22:23
lcukits normally about an hour or so i think max.  its just when its picked up and reindexed22:23
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crashanddie_bulfaiter, from? version?22:23
SpeedEvillcuk: Did they also have an accellerometer activated butler?22:24
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bulfaiterfrom here:, full product archive: both prefinal common components and mac intelX support22:25
AndrewFBlacklcuk, cool22:25
bulfaiterafter that, followed "installing and running" in the same webpage22:25
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bulfaiterand, to get the virtual machine, when here:
bulfaiterso I did the File > New > Other > Maemo Installers > Maemo SDK Virtual Image step, and chose the Ubuntu Server version, instead of the Desktop one22:26
lcukno, there was a speak n spell, an app that accepted text message of 80s artist, which then searched lastfm and transmitted to radio22:26
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crashanddie_bulfaiter, any specific reason you went with server rather than desktop?22:27
lcukand a cool viewmaster image creator22:27
VDVsxSpeedEvil, lcuk ,
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bulfaitercrashanddie_: there were the two options, with the server one being less to download. The wizard stated that it would download everything necessary, and the desktop one seemed more focused on developing "from the inside", running the vm directly, instead of running eclipse on the host machine22:28
lcukheh VDVsx scary i think thats my shadow :O22:28
VDVsxI also have some videos and photos of the hacks, will post them later ;)22:28
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bulfaitershould I try the other option?22:29
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crashanddie_bulfaiter, when you type maemo in the username22:31
crashanddie_bulfaiter, does it actually show up as "maemo"?22:31
crashanddie_not something like ,qe,o ?22:31
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bulfaitercrashanddie_: I think is my fault. As the docs said esbox supported virtualbox, I thought it would be "automagically" support. The VM fields were defaulting to vmware22:33
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bulfaiterI'm going to try and change that22:33
mojocafesorry for asking so strange things, but i have ubuntu now running under virtualbox. wich maemo sdk shall i install ?22:33
mojocafeand .... can i install the n8x0 AND the n900 sdk at the same time ?22:34
bulfaitersorry for bothering, crashanddie_ :)22:34
zerojayCrash, give me your email address.22:35
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mojocafehow can i install the scratchbox installer script without ANY knowledge ? when i click the link, he wants to open the .sh file with a text editor22:40
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AndrewFBlackif I'm having to recalibrate my screen on my n810 every hour or so is my screen starting to fail?22:46
zerojayUm, maybe.22:46
StskeepsAndrewFBlack: did you clean under the screen edges?22:47
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AndrewFBlackStskeeps, no do I need to?22:47
AndrewFBlacklooks dusty under there22:47
StskeepsAndrewFBlack: it has a tendancy to gather dust on the sides of the screen22:47
Stskeepsand that disturbs the TS22:47
zerojayHow do you clean it out?22:48
Stskeepssmall hairs, etc22:48
AndrewFBlackI'll try and if something to get under and clean it with22:48
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Stskeepsthe easy answer is schematics and a torx, but hmm22:48
AndrewFBlackis cover only held on by the two torx on top or do i have ot tear it apart osme more?22:50
AndrewFBlackbtw i mean top back of screen22:50
Stskeepsgo see the service manuals, it should make that part more clear >P22:51
AndrewFBlackI tried some canned air for now maybe that will help22:52
AndrewFBlackif this screen goes bad I'm back ot my 770 lol22:52
* AndrewFBlack sits waiting to see his new theme show up in extras-dlevel22:53
mojocafehow the hack shall dumb idiots like me learn to develop for maemo if i never terminaled and this link simply reminds me of my good ol' DOS days....
mojocafeain't there an easier way to install the tools ?22:58
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Stskeepsmojocafe: there's tools like esbox and other tools22:59
melmothmojocafe: there used to be an already prepare vmware image ready available somewhere.23:00
melmothbut it s not like it s complicated to prepare the env, it s just boring :)23:01
mojocafests: is esbox maemo 5 only ?23:01
Stskeepsmm, it may be maemo 4 too23:01
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mojocafei do not have and realy know the eclipse IDE ... is it like aptana ?23:02
melmothdont know, i never used eclipse.23:02
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Stskeepsaptana is based on eclipse yeah23:02
mojocafemmmmh. i am realy too dumb for this. let me read the link u send me....23:03
Stskeepsyou basically want to make an app you can click and it loads a certain url with flash on it?23:04
mojocafests. yep that's it. but i also want it to run fullscreen.23:04
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mojocafeubuntu is making some updates. i think i will try to make the step by step installation from the page i posted here a few lines ago.23:05
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dmzhowdy y'all, anyone have any suggestions on waht would cause n810 to stop being able to connect to network (wifi)? it was working and wifi is working for other laptops but not nokia! :(23:10
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dmzi see it associating but not doing dhcp requests23:13
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javispedrobtw, the n900 does not support eap-ttls+pap yet, doesn't it?23:16
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javispedro(the bug says _no_, but just in case someone had common sense :P )23:17
* kirma notes that technical reference manual and other manuals for equivalent-to-n900 power management chip are available -> people are free to fry their devices eventually :o23:18
kirmaand TRM is only 925 pages ;)23:19
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Stskeepswazd_n800: o/23:23
wazd_n800Stskeeps, \m/ :D23:23
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wazd_n800can anybody explain what's Nokia Push?23:27
Stskeepswazd_n800: hackaday for n900?23:27
wazd_n800Is it any crazy showcase idea or just useful one?)23:28
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javispedroI'd guess crazy.23:28
javispedrospecially because of the "connect to anything" part.23:29
wazd_n800javispedro, cool :)23:29
* javispedro proposes n900 activating, via serial cable, the blender that will blend the n900 itself.23:29
lcukwhilst videoing itself and sending a distress sms23:29
javispedrothen create a series of "Will it blend... BY ITSELF??" youtube videos23:29
lcukhey javispedro \o23:30
javispedrohi lcuk23:30
lcukwazd_n800, the push presentation was cool, some really trippy hacks23:30
wazd_n800I have some cool showcase ideas btw :)23:31
lcukdid you see liqflow in action23:31
wazd_n800lcuk, awesome :)23:31
* lbt wonders about a titanium N900 in "will it blend?"23:31
lcukwill it survive23:31
wazd_n800lcuk, yeah, if the flow is networked in real time then it's very nice)23:31
lbtrunning liqflow to the beat23:31
lbtand getting very queasy watching the big screen controlled by a blending N90023:32
lcukyeah well the lib for udp connections exists and ive got a wicked idea23:32
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javispedrowow multiscreen liqflow23:32
lcukjavispedro :D23:33
lcukit was more than the flow - we were jamming and drumming on the desk23:33
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lcukthe throbbing response was the coolest part :D23:33
wazd_n800I have a real multiuser interaction idea for Nokia Stores, we're gonna win this contest :)23:33
wazd_n800lcuk: yeah, that's nice too :)23:34
SpeedEvil I submitted the n900 - we need more suggestions23:34
javispedrocuriosity: what did you put in "Why?" field?23:35
wazd_n800damn, I have a goddam cool idea for this Push stuff!23:35
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crashanddie_lcuk, it was indeed one of the coolest things I've seen in quite a while23:36
javispedrowazd: does it consist in weird ugly cables around, weak and/or cold solders, and a hand-made electrocuting the first unsuspecting user who touches it?23:36
javispedroif it does not, it doesn't have any chance ;)23:37
crashanddie_lcuk, the accelerometer doesn't have a digital compass in it, does it?23:37
SpeedEviljavispedro: something along the lines of 'The nokia n900 is the most interesting phone to come along in a long while - but the vital question that has been missing from all reviews so far is 'will it blend' ?23:38
javispedro:P :)23:38
lcukcrashanddie_, dunno, would need to look23:38
javispedroI guess no digital compass, it would've been announced by now23:38
wazd_n800javispedro, get out of my head! :D23:39
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javispedro*hand-made connectors :)23:39
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* javispedro imagines next youtube hit: "Will a N900 blend itself while inside a blender inside a microwave owen in space?"23:46
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wazdjavispedro: in Saturn atmosphere :D23:47
javispedrocrazy people23:48
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* javispedro today freed 20MiB of rootfs memory just by doing "dpkg -l | grep ^rc | cut -f4 -d" " | xargs dpkg --purge"23:49
javispedrodon't try that at home, since it came off my head (aka untrusted source)23:50
wazdI think we can use liqbase for my hack aswell :)23:50
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wazdany coders want to participate in action? :)23:52
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SpeedEvilA USB controlled robot arm.23:55
SpeedEvilYou log into the N900 from a remote webserver, and using the camera from the phone peering out of the blender navigate the arm to the 'blend' button23:55
javispedronow THAT makes it interesting ;)23:56
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crashanddie_that blender joke has outlived itself23:56
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javispedrowhat joke? it was my best idea for the push contest! :(23:56
crashanddie_what contest?23:57
javispedro"Hacking 80's Gadgets with the Nokia N900"23:58

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