IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-09-13

zerojayPCI'm sure someone can cobble that together rather quickly for you. I would myself if I wasn't so busy with being lazy right now. ;)00:02
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: playing around with awesome wm atm .. if you hated the fremantle notifications, you'll absolutely hate my accidential fullscreen notification :>00:04
endorphinumzero: lol. well the main problem about all of this is that when i started the project about 1 year ago, the *nix scene constantly threw tomates, eggs, salad, cashew nuts, beer cups and goats at me because i am realizing the project with Flash :) .... so i think that no one at the moment is willing. But if you would like to, i'd fall in love with it :)00:04
zerojayPCendorphinum: We're all love here, man.00:05
pupnik_except for flash00:05
zerojayPCendorphinum: As long as you support the diagonal orientation movement.00:05
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: The notifications look better on the real thing00:05
endorphinumzero: i know mate. I was just kidding. But i totally understand that the policies of Flash suck just like as they are not open.00:05
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: true00:06
endorphinumzero: what movemtn is that ?00:06
zerojayPCendorphinum: The movement to allow the N900 to work slanted at a 45 degree angle, counterclockwise and have all the apps be aware.00:06
zerojayPCendorphinum: Because, you know... it's great getting neck cramps.00:07
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endorphinumLOL ? WHAT ???? Is that true ? You want to develop apps for 45° ?00:07
endorphinumok got it.00:07
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zerojayPCI'm just poking fun at the people bitching about portrait mode.00:07
endorphinumzero: why not start a 720 movement ? So that you have to turn your body 2 times while it is starting, otherwise it won't work !?00:08
zerojayPCendorphinum: Don't be retarded.00:08
zerojayPCI'm sure there's someone out there that's in the middle of trying to Wii-ize the N900 as we speak.00:09
zerojayPCSo if you want to send a new message to someone, you just take your N900 and throw it at them.00:09
endorphinumBut before throwing, you have to call that person and ask if something is between you both that could "block the transfer" .00:09
zerojayPCIt hits the ground and you see that nice notification come up...00:10
zerojayPC"Jake just hit you in the fucking face. Would you like to chat?"00:10
endorphinumYou just brought me to a new augment reality application ! Instead of typing :) or :(  you have to look into the camera and the app will convert your face into one out of 20 smilies available.00:11
mavhcJake: a bat would like to chat with you, accept?00:11
zerojayPCendorphinum: Yeah, I'm good like that.00:11
endorphinumthe problem with that app and me would be the system failure "Smiley can not be generated. You are too fucking ugly".00:12
zerojayPC"Please do not point the camera at a wall."00:12
zerojayPCOh man.. there's a small little story I wanna tell, but I can't.00:13
zerojayPCFucking NDAs.00:13
zerojayPCSo appropriate too. Bah.00:13
endorphinumLet me guess, Nokia is developing exactly that. Jesus, don't they got better things to do ??? What about an automatic message system informing me that there is no beer in the fridge !?00:13
zerojayPCendorphinum: Hah.. no, that particular NDA isn't with Nokia.00:14
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endorphinumok my beloved friends. i am breaking my head here with nokia's WRT tutorials. maybe will get back later but for now bye bye and have a pleasant night !00:19
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Khertan_n810Hi !00:26
Khertan_n810i like the topic ... use Mer instead00:26
Khertan_n810lu crashanddie00:26
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Tu13esnice, i didnt see that one00:45
*** crashanddie_ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ | | Maemo Community Council | | | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open - | Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0/iPhone, use Mer instead"00:47
Firebirdiphone.. use Mer instead?00:47
*** crashanddie_ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ | | Maemo Community Council | | | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open - | Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0, use Mer instead"00:47
zerojayPCYes, iphone = use Mer instead. :)00:50
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GAN800Batteries dead again.01:04
GAN800Fun fun01:04
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ShellEviltried swapping bat?01:07
crashanddie_GAN800, wassup bro?01:08
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* Firebird pokes zerojayPC01:26
zerojayPCI'll try it after my tablet charges.01:27
Firebirdah, so it doesn't parachute after you cd?01:27
zerojayPCI don't know.01:27
zerojayPCI'll try it after my tablet charges.01:27
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* lardman considers ping01:42
* zerojayPC ponders pong01:42
lardmanhey zerojayPC01:42
lardmanhow's your MSN collabra (spelling?) hacking coming on...?01:43
zerojayPCStalled for now.01:43
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GAN800ShellEvil, batteries are 300 miles North of here.01:44
lardmanhi VDVsx01:44
lardmanhey crashanddie_, didn't see you arrive01:45
GAN800crashanddie_, still waiting impatiently for my Mac Pro.01:45
lardmanhi GAN80001:45
VDVsxhello lardman :)01:45
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wazdGAN800: you've been waiting forever I think :)01:50
qwerty12_N810Firebird: Your Slysics-run script wants bash installed but the contents of the script really do not justify installing it :)01:51
Firebirdah, I assumed everyone had bash :D01:51
FirebirdI'll get to fixing that...01:51
wazdI know what software should we make for n900 - phonecall cost counter01:52
Firebirdthanks qwerty12_N810 , so should I just use sh?01:52
FirebirdI'm always used to using the bash heading, guess I got ahead of myself01:52
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rm_you_so again, when are people planning on arriving at the amsterdam airport? want to give them an arrival time that has me there at a time i can meet up with people to head to the hotel :P01:56
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Firebirdqwerty12_N810, does maemo5 have bash out of the box?01:58
qwerty12_N810No, plain ol' busybox01:58
pupnik_24 hour coding competition suggestion:  Maemo bluetooth pong (p vs p)02:05
FirebirdI'd have to learn some bluez api or dbus :o02:06
Pavlovis it possible to get new audio codecs for the n900?02:09
Pavlovor do they exist, i guess?:)02:09
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pupnik_Pavlov: yeah, libogg or libtheora for e.g.02:14
Pavlovany idea about apple lossless?02:18
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ShadowJKiirc maemo uses gstreamer, so apple lossless could be made to work through ffmpeg-gst02:24
ShadowJKnot that I know if the default media player uses gstreamer :/02:24
zerojayIt does.02:26
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* ShadowJK just installed flac-dsp on n810 and it isn't that nice :)02:27
ShadowJKis that your project, lardman? you're about the only one doing stuff on dsp :)02:27
timeless_mbpPavlov: in theory our gstreamer is wired to recognize missing codecs02:29
GAN800wazd, yeah, but it's actually on its way now.02:29
timeless_mbpand try to help you do something about it02:29
* Firebird wonders why only the i386 build of his package made it to extras-devel02:29
timeless_mbpi've never seen it in practice02:29
ShadowJKtimeless, I thought that was harmattan goal? :)02:30
* timeless_mbp shrugs02:30
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timeless_mbpmaybe i'm confused02:30
Pavlovtimeless_mbp: my experience is that it happily tells me about my tracks02:30
timeless_mbpi don't pay attn to the media player02:30
Pavlovand how it can't play them02:30
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timeless_mbpPavlov: well, my ipod happily tells me that i could buy a new os02:30
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, it's probably going to be useless anyhow, not even microsoft can make it do anything useful in wmp02:30
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timeless_mbpbut it doesn't explain in English what the license is02:30
timeless_mbpso i can't buy it02:30
Pavlovim thinking about buying a zune hd02:31
lardmanShadowJK: no, a commercial group who were going Symbian DSP stuff released it02:31
GAN800rm_you, waiting on a call from the travel agent I guess.02:31
ShadowJKlardman, it stutters :)02:31
Pavlovbut my car only supports ipod ;/02:31
ShadowJKthe stutter is the same regardless of CPU speed setting, oddly enough02:31
ShadowJKand mplayer plays the same file with 5% cpu use02:31
lardmanhmm, I never got round to looking at it tbh02:32
qwerty12_N810Pavlov: Wait for the N900 with its FM transmitter02:32
lardmanShadowJK: only a small part is on the dsp though, so should be easy enough to debug02:33
lardmanprobably buffer underrun or something like that02:33
Pavlovqwerty12_N810: i dont want fm transmitter02:33
Pavlovthe bay area only has like 3 stations not broadcasting02:33
Pavlovand those are noisy02:33
lardmanusing SWIG, trying to compile my wrapper, I've got an error about a stray $, which should be encapsulated by an #ifdef __cplusplus statement02:34
timeless_mbpPavlov: i've had someone demo FM radio for me02:34
Pavlovplus i actually care about audio quality02:34
timeless_mbpbut that was @santa cruz02:34
timeless_mbpit did work02:34
lardmanwhere is __cplusplus defined normally?02:34
timeless_mbpthat was 2 years ago iirc02:34
timeless_mbplardman: typically g++ internals02:34
javispedrolardman: by the compiler itself.02:34
timeless_mbpor msvc or whatever02:34
lardmanhmm, am compiling c code02:34
lardmanwith gcc02:34
timeless_mbpgcc -E02:35
timeless_mbpis your friend, kinda02:35
timeless_mbpit'll give you a list of files it managed to include02:35
timeless_mbpgrep all of those for __cplusplus :)02:35
timeless_mbp(or you could use strace/truss)02:35
lardmanok thanks02:36
RST38hmoo all02:36
lardmanwhat does this declaration try to achieve? $*ltype temp3 ;02:38
pupnik_and then there are those of us who debug with printf02:38
RST38his there anything wrong with that? =)02:39
pupnik_being ign'ant perhaps02:39
RST38hMr Ganesh Kumar is sending me riches02:39
* GAN800 is just reading the dev karma thread.02:39
pupnik_but then again, i started doing that when i was 11 years old.02:39
GAN800Hooray, trolls!02:40
zerojayGan, don't bother.02:40
javispedrotrolls? where!02:40
RST38hThat was one thread I would wish had not been started02:40
* javispedro would read anything, he's procrastinating02:40
RST38hLOTS of opportunities for quarrel02:40
javispedrodamn real work :(02:41
GAN800It gives me a good opportunity to toss karma at people being intelligent and rational.02:41
lardmanah crap, looks like my swig file is at fault02:41
zerojayI'm going to sit back and laugh at that thread.02:41
GAN800Fucking irrelevant bullshit.02:42
GAN800YoDude is such a massive hypocrit.02:42
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lardmanI'm calling it quits, night all, more SWIG'ing tomorrow I fear02:44
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Firebirdhmm, either the builder exploded or it forgot to move my armel package >_>02:44
javispedroFirebird: it takes a while02:44
Firebirdjavispedro, it put 3 other ones, so its 3 max?02:45
Firebirdlike, the i386 of the same package02:45
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RST38hbye lardman02:46
javispedroFirebird: sometimes it takes two hours...02:47
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Firebirdmmm, alright, I'll wait. Always thought that the two architechtures were uploaded together02:48
javispedrobtw, what has changed between -2 and -3, only the bash issue?02:48
javispedro(I want to try it :) )02:48
Firebirdyea, just the bash issue02:49
GAN800Did we ever get a hardware upgrade on the builders?02:49
Firebirdjavispedro, though, -2 I changed the fall off force02:49
javispedroi'm going to pull -202:49
javispedroit's the one in -devel right now02:49
Firebirdyea, they're all in devel02:50
javispedroFirebird: you left the .svn folder in the packaging!02:52
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Firebirdjavispedro, in the data folder right?02:53
javispedrothe etch dpkg-buildpackage doesn't clean it automatically02:53
javispedroyou have to either svn export first or add "-I.svn" to the dpkg-buildpackage args02:53
javispedroanother candidate for the "performanced" daemon ;)02:54
FirebirdI built the package from a svn checkout, debian rules just copied the entire data directory to the final folder02:54
javispedroFirebird: yeah, but modern debian tools ignore the .svn folder for you automatically02:56
javispedro(dpkg-deb actually)02:56
javispedroI always wanted to do a game like this one :)02:57
javispedroonly with buildings :)02:57
javispedro(I mean, draw "buildings" then destroy them, watch them fall! >:) )02:57
crashanddie_hey lardman02:57
crashanddie_GAN800, yeah well, be happy you're getting one02:57
javispedrocongrats Firebird, it's very fluid :)02:58
crashanddie_you already cost them a fortune just in the hours you've spent using up their resources in call centers02:58
Firebirdheh, thanks javispedro02:58
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* javispedro guillotines the poor line rider03:02
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pupnik_that's just the funniest nick03:10
Firebirdjavispedro, heh, don't refer to it as line rider, before I get sued >_>03:11
Firebirdcall him: "The figure" :D03:11
pupnik_call it 'Calvin and Hobbes' crazy sled ride'03:12
pupnik_and get permission03:12
* javispedro creates a "The figure" distiller: figure goes in, organs go out :)03:13
Firebirdhmm, wonder how obvious it is that you can rotate the spawn03:15
RST38hjavis: There is an SCP for that03:15
javispedroFirebird: well, I don't see how :P03:16
Firebirdjavispedro, push and hold the spawn03:16
javispedroI see.03:16
javispedroI saw the "handle" to rotate it03:17
javispedroif you could make it so that tapping in the handle would rotate it...03:17
Firebirdheh, it was intended to point to the current direction03:17
javispedroI understand it now, but ... heh, it seemed a handle :)03:18
javispedrobtw, what's the "Flag" button for? Other than printf'ing "flagith" ;)03:18
Firebirdnothing yet?03:18
Firebirdhaven't bothered coding it yet03:18
javispedroi've not played the flash game either so I have no idea03:19
Firebirdlikewise, there's no load function03:19
Firebirdjavispedro, its supposed to make it so you can set the flag and spawn from the flag at speed or whatever happens at that point03:19
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javispedroand the diferent line colors? :D (is that documented somewhere?)03:20
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javispedro(not a complain, just curious)03:20
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Firebirdjavispedro, not at all :P, the orange one makes you increase speed in current direction, the tan one are like brakes03:21
javispedroah, thanks!03:21
Firebirdthat's why the guy is slanted forward in the icon03:21
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Firebirdjavispedro, you can also edit after pausing if you haven't tried that yet03:22
timeless_mbpGAN800: ohloh is our friend03:23
timeless_mbpkarma by ohloh, please :)03:23
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javispedroFirebird: every time I try the same track something different happens. I don't know if that's intentional (changing the box2d timesteps?) but is funny :)03:27
Firebirdyea, box2d isn't that consistent heh03:28
FirebirdI guess it adds to the game play sort of.. "Make your tracks robust for change"03:28
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javispedrobut box2d should be consistent by itself, it's not like it reads /dev/random ;)03:29
Firebirdit also seems to repeat it self like every other simulation is the same03:29
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ShadowJKhah, kernel just blew up when apt-get install tried to restart the media player related stuff. MMU and DSP related errors in dmesg, and the kernel is being confused running around in circles trying to free more and more memory, 70 megs free and increasing :)03:30
ShadowJK81M free...03:31
ShadowJKAh it gave up...03:31
* ShadowJK waits for userspace to come back from swap03:31
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crashanddie_bloody hell03:34
crashanddie_far cry 2 is the worst game ever03:35
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RST38h" posession of or being posessed by..."03:45
Firebirdis that a question?03:45
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RST38hin full, it was "Personnel trying to exit unit 19-633 in possession of or being possessed by SCP-633 are to be terminated immediately."03:46
crashanddie_so what's SCP-633?03:47
crashanddie_An object?03:47
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Khertan_BSGHi again !03:47
RST38h"SCP-633 has been identified as a symbiotic organism which resembles an unkempt beard, reddish-brown in hue and of substantial volume. While aware of its surroundings, SCP-633 has the initial instinct to seek out an adult male in its range of cognizance: if it finds a suitable host, it will temporarily attach itself to their face"03:47
crashanddie_would make sense if it possesses you and then terminates you :P03:47
RST38hit makes you seek a mirror.03:47
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pupnik_i should get electrolysis03:56
pupnik_maybe you could burn em off with isopropyl alcohol03:57
* pupnik_ nominates crashanddie_ 03:57
crashanddie_pupnik_, can't03:57
crashanddie_pupnik_, don't have enough karma :D03:57
HeckleJecklegeneral question for c gtk+ programming  - anyone got recommendations for an open source project in c/gtk+ that can serve as a good example for a beginner in both03:57
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RST38hthere is probably a generic gtk helloworld example too03:58
pupnik_HeckleJeckle: you would like to develop for maemo?  or general gtk03:58
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pupnik_I've got lots of things03:59
pupnik_lets see - lopster UI needs a rework for 800x48003:59
pupnik_that's a nice gtk grind :D03:59
pupnik_also got about three things to do with hildon that are bout as easy as 'hello world' but actually useful to me04:00
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Firebirdhmm, are things that aren't mine supposed to show up on my build queue?04:07
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wazdwee, I've made parallax demo for my blog :)04:15
wazd 8)04:19
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GAN800WALL-E is such a great movie.05:26
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RST38hNext time you eat kiwi, remember this:
wazd <- comment! :)05:30
wazdGAN800: were you crying? :)05:30
RST38hwazd: so, you want to be able to place widgets at different layers?05:31
wazdRST38h: no, just background05:31
RST38hso that the bottom widgets do not scroll with the background?05:31
wazdRST38h: it's kinda useless for widgets IMO :)05:31
RST38hno no05:32
RST38hconsider this:05:32
wazdRST38h: it's just an eye-candy that never been made before05:32
GAN800wazd, my eyes were a little wet the first time I saw it. ;)05:32
RST38hI want to keep some widgets present at all desktops while I want other widgets to only be present at one desktop05:32
RST38hSo I place immobile widgets at the bottom layer and mobile widgets at the top layer05:33
wazdRST38h: well, that's a neat idea :)05:33
RST38h(of course it will all be confusing to the user, but we are not currently talking of the user, are we?)05:33
wazdRST38h: nono, screw user :D05:33
wazddamn, I've made really cool demo :)05:34
wazdcan stare at it for hours :)05:34
RST38hadd animals now! =)05:35
wazdRST38h: yeah, I was thinking bout adding birds :)05:35
RST38hgiraffe would also do nicely05:36
wazdRST38h: or a powerline :)05:36
RST38hthat would be easy05:36
wazdit's incredible how such a simple trich gives such a srong #D effect :)05:37
RST38hyea, SNES and Genesis coders knew it long ago ;)05:37
wazdblurred tree makes it even more beleiveable :)05:37
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RST38hlooks almost like a video05:37
wazdRST38h: 6:40 AM, wake up :D05:38
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: can you push Nokia to do something like the new Zaurus, but with  cellphone + BT capabilities?05:39
wazdluke-jr: he's Nokia CEO, of course he can :)05:39
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zerojayPC <-- Yes, portrait mode for the entire OS will only take two weeks to add. lol06:40
zerojayPCJust.. like... how fucking high do you have to be to think that's possible?06:41
GAN800It'd take less than that if it'd done at the wm.06:41
GAN800It's sachin06:41
GAN800He's often like that.06:41
luke-jrzerojayPC: huh? randr shouldn't be difficult06:42
zerojayPCIt's not about randr.06:42
luke-jrprovided the apps are sanely developed to work with any window size06:42
luke-jrhopefully I can get that new Zaurus supported before it's even released? haha06:43
luke-jrI think it comes out Sep 25, so probably not06:43
zerojayPCGood luck.06:44
luke-jrhopefully the dev kit will include docs needed to add a webcam and cell phoen to it06:44
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timeless_mbpluke-jr: right, i have no control over management/direction08:02
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unixSnobWhy would the Maemo SDK need LaTeX?08:50
chxto write docs08:52
unixSnobthat's silly.  developers don't need to write docs in their sdk environment08:55
pupnikwho developed that bounce game for n90008:56
unixSnobit's like distributing with an sdk08:56
chxmaybe there is a dvi viewer in maemo5?08:59
chxthat would, by the way, rock so hard09:00
chxi would not believe it09:00
chx like dunno advi :)09:02
unixSnobchx: it would indeed be a bloated OS that includes a dvi viewer09:05
unixSnobit's especially bloatware for a portable os09:05
chxis that so09:05
chxmy memory is rusty09:06
unixSnobtexlive is certainly large09:06
chxbut i believe there were tex systems that happily fit on a single floppy drive09:06
chxLaTex: TeX typesetting system for UNIX-like systems, with AMS-Tex (from American Mathematical Society) package and the famous Lyx word processor + dvips, xdvi, etc. All that, in a single floppy disk!09:07
unixSnobi'm not saying it's not useful to have, but it doesn't belong in an os09:07
chxwell, i have not used tex since i handed in my masters thesis09:08
unixSnobor an sdk09:08
unixSnobi use it to write letters09:08
unixSnoband autogenerate test reports09:09
unixSnobbut i don't see how it's needed to make an sdk complete.  an sdk can be quite complete without it09:11
unixSnobthe reason i'm particularly keen on bitching about it is my sdk installation is failing because of a texlive conflict09:11
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unixSnobhow can I find out what tools are available to install using maemo-sdk?09:38
unixSnob"maemo-sdk install tools etch-2008" implies that "etch-2008" is one option... what are the others?09:39
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vasily_pupkinHi! Anybody know, does wifi driver in Mer support injection?09:51
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MacerMessage Name:Timeout expired.  The timeout period elapsed prior to completion of the operation or the server is not responding.10:27
Macershitty bank10:27
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johnxhallo all11:13
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lbtmorning johnx11:19
lbtsigh... I have to setup Kerberos/LDAP here11:20
lbtneed to do a presentation for an interview11:20
johnxyeah, it was a little bit of a pain to make the LDAP simple auth work with the krb5 backend11:21
johnxbut that was probably because I was new to LDAP11:21
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Stskeepsmorning johnx11:22
johnxmorning :)11:23
johnxhow are your new digs?11:23
johnxthe place where you live11:23
johnxsorry, US english I think11:23
Stskeepsah, they're okay11:23
Stskeepsi have a good view to all landing planes of warsaw, so11:23
unixSnobwhat rootstrap version maps to 5.2008.43-7 ?11:28
unixSnobrootstrap versions seem to have different numbering11:28
MacerNational Geographic: Seed Hunter11:28
Macersounds exciting :)11:28
Maceri wonder what types of stealth it takes to pounce on the seeds11:28
unixSnobMacer: that's just a precursor to bounty hunting.. it's the first step11:29
Maceri wonder what types of weapons the seed hunter uses11:30
Macerarmed with his killer shovel11:30
Macerand a knife to fend off vicious seed eating birds from their prey11:30
Macercamoflauged seed holding buckets for the kill11:31
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unixSnobMacer: timing is everything.  You have to attack before the seed grows into a thorny skin destroying organism11:32
Maceroh i'm sure11:34
Macernot to mention you have to make sure the parent plant is asleep as to avoid its wrath11:34
Maceri'm starting to think that national geographic is running out of things to make videos about :)11:34
unixSnobMacer: and you have to make sure it's not a genetically modified seed, or you could get sued by the farmer11:35
Stskeepsnext up, national geographic going into pornography11:35
unixSnobyes.. porky pine sex.. I've always wanted to see how that works11:35
unixSnobthe ultimate organism for sex and violence11:36
Macerah yes11:38
Maceras we can see from which evolutionary stage spousal abouse stems from11:39
Macerthe UK office show isn't that funny11:40
Maceri suppose british humor11:40
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Macerman i'm actually glad i had a problem with comcast12:06
Macerthey had a speed upgrade that costs the same as my current lease and igot like 2x the speed since i leased it about a year and a half ago12:06
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Proteousman I'm glad I switched my other computers over to my DSL  line and away from comcast. I now have a much more consistant connection and my pings are lower and rock stable12:09
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ShellEvillead free is not as good in most ways. It requrires higher temps which risks damaging older stuff, requires more active fluxes leading to corrosion risks, wets many materials less well, creates dendrites especially in damp conditions, ...12:18
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unixSnobwhy would a maemo-sdk installation destroy procmail scripts in a users home folder?12:42
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infoboti guess firmware is hardware that is beginning to melt  Firmware for GrandStream phones is at
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ShellEvilFirmware is embedded programming, often unchangeable12:52
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Meizirkkii was trying to get the link for search is such a mess12:54
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Dantonicwhat do I setup on my ubuntu box to be able to share files on my N800 through gftp?12:59
johnxDantonic, openssh-server13:00
Dantonicis that difficult to setup? I've never setup an ftp server before13:01
Dantonicis it command line based?13:02
johnxno setup at all :)13:02
johnxinstall it from synaptic, then connect to your ubuntu box's IP address from gftp on the n80013:02
Dantonicok installing now13:03
Dantonicso I can connect over my Network?13:03
Dantonicwith the local ip?13:03
johnxyeah, that'll work inside your LAN13:04
johnxwon't work from over the internet of course13:04
Dantonicwhat if I wanted to do it over the internet?13:04
johnxyou'd have to setup your router to port forward 22 to your ubuntu box?13:05
DantonicI see13:05
DantonicI'm also trying to figure out how to setup a static ip for my ubuntu box13:05
DantonicI'm wondering if I disable dhcp on my router how will that affect all the other computers on my network?13:05
Dantonicif at all?13:05
johnxyes it will13:06
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johnxjust set your ubuntu machine to have a static IP that's the same as it's current one13:06
johnxyour router should "do the right thing" and not try to assign that IP to another machine automatically13:06
Dantonicya I'm trying to figure out how to do it... maybe I'll look for a guide for my router...13:07
Dantonicso I dont need to disable dhcp?13:07
Dantonicto set static for my ubuntu box?13:07
johnxthat's right13:07
Dantonicjohnx, how do I find out my dns address in ubuntu? is there a terminal command that shows it?13:10
johnxyour hostname?13:11
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wazdheya everybody13:11
johnxhey wazd13:11
johnxDantonic, when you open a terminal it's the name after the @13:12
Dantonicah I found it in the router's status page :P13:12
Dantoniclike the dns ip address?13:13
crashanddie_Dantonic, or you could just configure your router to always give the same IP address to a specific mac address13:13
johnxDantonic, yeah, you can look at /etc/resolv.conf13:13
Dantoniccrashanddie_, ya that's what I'm trying to figure out how to do on my router13:13
Dantonicnot sure how I'm looking for a guide or something13:14
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crashanddie_Dantonic, or, if your router supports it, you should be able to configure your hosts to issue a DNS request that contains their hostname, the router will then become your DNS server, and map the hostnames to internal IPs13:14
crashanddie_Dantonic, what router do you have?13:15
Dantoniclinksys WRT54GS13:15
ShellEvilOr you just ignore the whole shizzle - and do static IP13:17
crashanddie_Dantonic, install openwrt :P13:17
Dantonicwhats openwrt?13:17
Dantonicanother issue I was having with ubuntu is that after a suspend I lose internet... so I was hoping maybe to try with a static ip... it could help idk13:18
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Dantonicthat was part of the reason for it...13:18
crashanddie_Dantonic, if you lose internet connectivity after suspending your laptop, it's probably more related to the fact your wifi card doesn't wake up properly13:19
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Macer05:14 < Dantonic> whats openwrt?13:20
Dantonicits desctop and wired13:21
lardmanany SWIG gurus about?13:21
MacerDantonic: openwrt is a replacement firmware for wifi routers.. works on quite a bit of routers13:21
Macerbut was specifically made for a linksys wrt type of router13:21
Maceri actually used ddwrt when it was free13:22
Macerand still have it on my router like 3 years later heh.. :)13:22
Macerheard the project leader of ddwrt was a real prick. got all this community support and made it good then took it all and packed up and started charging money for it13:22
Macertotally screwing all the developers that put effort into it13:23
johnxtomato is nice13:23
johnxonly it seems to not work 100% with my setup here, so I'm on openwrt13:23
johnxbut yeah, Dantonic for what you're doing you really don't need to worry about this stuff :)13:23
Macernever tried tomato13:24
Maceri was going to put openwrt on a 54gs that i have here13:24
Macerone of the speedboost wifi routers from back in the day ... never tried though13:25
johnxtry tomato on it first. it's really pretty :)13:25
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Macerjohnx: that's what i hear13:25
Maceropenwrt was a pain when i tried it like 4 years ago.. had to use a bunch of iptables rules13:25
Macerno web interface :)13:25
johnxand if you use openwrt, use xwrt with it13:26
johnxthat's the only way to fly :)13:26
Maceri mean it worked but it was just like running a small linux box13:26
Macerwtf is that? :)13:26
johnxa nice web interface for openwrt13:26
Macerx11 on a wrt? heh13:26
Macerwell.. i don't really have much of a need for it.. but i wanted to have a secondary in case this one died on me13:26
* SpeedEvil has run X on damn near as small hardware.13:27
DantonicDestination LAN IP. The Destination LAN IP is the address of the remote network or host to which you want to13:27
Dantonicassign a static route.13:27
SpeedEvilThough not recently13:27
Dantonicthat's what i need right?13:27
Dantonicthe host would be my box13:27
johnxSpeedEvil, heh. my first desktop was just as low spec as my WRT54GS13:27
MacerSpeedEvil: x isn't that bad13:27
Maceri used to run x on sx25s ;)13:27
SpeedEvilNo, X isn't.13:27
SpeedEvilI've run X and a browser from a floppy.13:27
Macerit's those damn enviroments that bloat the hell out of it13:27
SpeedEvilOk - the browser was a cut-down lynx13:27
johnxDantonic, yeah13:28
Macerlike gnome and kde13:28
SpeedEvilAnd the floppy was overclocked to 1.7M or something.13:28
crashanddie_Macer, and support for composite, card driver framework, etc13:28
SpeedEvilBut still13:28
Macercrashanddie_: yeah. that too ;)13:28
crashanddie_how do you "overclock" a floppy? it's not lack you can have it turn faster or anything13:28
Maceri mean don't get me wrong on the right hardware it is beautiful.. but even stripped down13:28
Macerenviroments are whores13:28
crashanddie_I remember when you could transform a 700k floppy to 1.4M13:28
Macercrashanddie_: haha... you replace the motor ? :)13:29
DantonicGateway not directly reachable through that interface13:29
SpeedEvilcrashanddie_: you reduce the inter-sector gaps, and use non-standard sector sizes and more than the standard tracks13:29
Macerdon't they have laser turntables nowadays?13:29
Macerfor vinyl records?13:29
crashanddie_Macer, don't think so13:29
Macerwow if you ever hear audiophiles talk about vinyls.. it's amazing13:29
SpeedEvilcrashanddie_: this can give you a reliable 1.7M - IIRC - on a 1.4M floppy - at least for read on all drives - and slightly more if you use tracks >8013:29
crashanddie_Macer, the grooves don't actually follow a perfect circle, so you'd need a very precise detection system to know where to point the laser at next13:30
Macerabout how digital music steps and vinyls are true analog so you get more sound :)13:30
Maceri mean seriously13:30
Macerif your ears are that good then you have to find a new job as a spy or something13:30
crashanddie_you don't get more sound than out of a CD13:30
crashanddie_you just get loss and noise13:30
Macercrashanddie_: uh oh13:30
Maceryou sound like one of htem!13:30
crashanddie_that's like saying that VHS is better quality than DVD because it's an analogical storing solution13:31
SpeedEvilcrashanddie_: however - I'm not sure some USB floppies will support this :)13:31
Macercrashanddie_: i don't think that is a good comparison13:31
Maceri believe the argument is that the wave from a CD steps13:31
crashanddie_SpeedEvil, I used to have those iomega zip drives? 120megs or something. 5 hours to read it in full13:32
crashanddie_"Oh yeah, this is the future baby"13:32
crashanddie_Then CD writers came along13:32
crashanddie_and that was that13:32
Macercrashanddie_: you mean cheap cd writers?  ;)13:32
SpeedEvilCD writeres were hellaspensive for ages though13:32
SpeedEvilAs was media13:32
crashanddie_Macer, yes, exactly what I mean ^^13:32
Macerthank god for china13:33
Macerand "free trade"13:33
Macerthe communist-capitalist industrial machine13:33
crashanddie_yeah, I guess $5 a month labour counts as "free trade"13:33
Macerever see west wing?13:33
crashanddie_can't say I have13:34
Macerwell. there is an episode in the 4th season when the president has his debate and an assistant sec of state explains that the chinese will be sewing cheap goods by their teeth whether we sell them cheeseburgers or not... so lets sell them cheeseburgers13:35
Macerthe american way.. who cares how the goods are made.. just give it to us13:35
Maceri mean honestly. i could care less if a thousand people die a day in some chinese factory if i can find a bray burner and cheap discs for less than $30013:36
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lardmanhmm, in SWIG, can I have more than one %apply <type here> *INPUT line?13:37
crashanddie_I think you scared him away13:37
Maceri guess i had this argument earlier about hybrid cars13:38
Maceri don't think most hybrid green one-worlders realize what nickel production looks like :)13:39
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crashanddie_lardman, yes13:40
crashanddie_lardman, as long as the underlying language supports your directives13:40
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lardmancrashanddie_: I think I've sorted it, only need those directives for pointer type arguments, don't need to specify the input/output type for every one13:41
Dantonicwhat do I put for default gateway?13:41
crashanddie_Dantonic, your router13:41
Dantonicso just
Macer production pollution/silverbeam/CSM Blog/pollution.jpg13:42
Macerthere's another one13:42
crashanddie_Dantonic, that's the one13:42
Dantoniclol 'May be default route already exists' wtf is that error?13:42
Dantonicis the router making fun of me?13:42
Macerthink about that pic when you realize how much production of nickel has increased in order to satisfy a person's ability to think they're doing good things for the planet13:42
crashanddie_Dantonic, what the hell are you doing?13:42
crashanddie_Dantonic, i mean seriously, you don't understand anything of this and just issue commands at random?13:43
Dantonicattempting unsuccessfully to assign a static local ip to my ubuntu box13:43
DantonicI have a vague understanding13:43
crashanddie_vague alright13:43
DantonicI'm just working in my routers software13:44
crashanddie_Dantonic, the reason the route already exists is that you probably already connected through DHCP when starting the machine13:44
Dantonicok makes sense... so what am I doing wrong? what should I look for?13:44
crashanddie_Dantonic, it will be a *lot* easier to just tell your router to bind a specific IP to a specific MAC address13:44
crashanddie_Dantonic, post some screenshots of the interface, I'll guide you13:44
Dantoniccrashanddie_, I'd love to do that... I actually did it al ong time ago on a different router, just havent been able to find the right page on this router's firmware13:45
crashanddie_Dantonic, in your interface, click until you find DHCP, and then "client Mac addresses" or something like that13:45
Dantonicthere's a MAC Address Clone tab13:46
crashanddie_nope, not that one13:47
crashanddie_that's to change the MAC address of the router13:47
crashanddie_Dantonic, you said earlier you found a list of currently connected clients?13:47
Dantonicyes I have that13:47
Dantonicunder status DHCP clients table13:48
Dantonicand this pc doesnt show up... wtf13:48
Dantonicjust the laptop and N80013:48
Dantonicnm maybe it does13:49
Dantonicifconfig should show my mac address correct?13:49
Dantonic inet addr:
Dantonicbut that doesnt show in the dhcp clients table13:50
crashanddie_that's your IP addres13:50
johnxDantonic, HW address13:50
Dantonicya hw address =  mac address right?13:50
crashanddie_Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:13:02:39:c4:d413:50
Dantonicya doesnt show in my clients table on the router13:52
Dantonicbah ifconfig shows the mac address to the router13:54
Dantonicthats why13:54
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DantonicI'm reading on the internet that my router apparently might not support this feature...13:58
Dantonicof binding IP to mac...13:58
Dantonicso I might need new firmware to do it :*(13:58
crashanddie_told you to install openwrt13:59
Dantonicok so tell me some more about that what is it?14:01
Dantoniccould it brick my router?14:01
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Dantoniccrashanddie_, how do I get openwrt?14:07
Dantonicnot in synaptic package manger?14:07
johnxDantonic, it's a replacement for the firmware/software that your router runs14:10
Dantonicjohnx, sounds scary... is there  a risk?14:12
johnxnot really, but I don't think it's worth it in your case14:12
Dantonicwell I found out my router does not support static ip configuration14:13
Dantonicip-mac address14:13
johnxlook, just change your ubuntu's machine to a static IP address, and don't bother messing with anything else14:14
Dantonicyou mean in ubuntu?14:14
Dantoniclike in my interfaces file?14:14
johnxjust use network manager14:14
Dantonicso any ip I assign to it will jive with the router?14:15
johnxjust use your current one :)14:15
Dantonicall right I'll give it a shot :)14:15
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lardmanis this a known error with Fremantle SDK? unrecognized option `-Qy'14:17
qwerty12_N810It comes when using the old Python that is internal to scratchbox, I believe14:17
lardmanyes, looks that way14:18
lardmanbit rubbish that it comes with an old version14:18
qwerty12_N810apt-get install python2.5 and point <whatever needs python> to /usr/bin/python2.5 directly14:19
lardmanyeah, have it installed, assumed it would overwrite the python binary with a symlink14:19
qwerty12_N810scratchbox's folders appear before /usr/bin in path14:20
lardmanah yes of course14:20
lardmanright, sorted now, thanks14:21
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radicqwerty12_N810: you know why I couldn't backup my settings?14:26
* qwerty12_N810 never uses the Backup program14:27
lardmanhmm ImportError: dynamic module does not define init function (initbarmix)14:32
lardmananyone know if that's my fault or SWIG's fault?14:32
lardmanah, I see it in the FAQ14:33
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crashanddie_lardman, noob14:39
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JaffaMorning, all14:46
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lardmancrashanddie_: yeah I know15:01
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: know who/what does? :p15:44
timeless_mbpmakes decisions?15:44
timeless_mbpno :)15:44
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* luke-jr ponders a petition to make an open-spec Zaurus-like phone, and having people sign on to buy one if someone produces it <.<15:50
SpeedEvilluke-jr: google gta02-core15:53
luke-jrSpeedEvil: why?15:54
luke-jrI googled gta02-core months ago. useless and not at all like what I just described.15:54
SpeedEvilluke-jr: It's an open spec phone with some question as to how it's going to be produced15:54
luke-jrSpeedEvil: with no intention to use any recent hardware advances or even have a keyboard15:55
luke-jrlet alone be Zaurus-like15:55
SpeedEvilrecent hardware or a keyboard adds _LOTS_ to the production cost unfortunately15:55
luke-jrSpeedEvil: well, KDE needs at the very least 256 MB RAM :p15:56
luke-jrand I like the Zaurus specs, except that it lacks phone capabilities and BT15:56
zerojayPC"recent hardware advances" = closed source, so...15:56
SpeedEvilzerojayPC: not so much15:57
SpeedEvilzerojayPC: or ratehr - that's a side-effect15:57
zerojayPCI know.15:57
SpeedEvilzerojayPC: I was more referring to the great difficulty of sourcing the latest greatest chips - as the vendors are often concentrating only on volume and may not even ship small volumes.15:57
zerojayPCThat too.15:58
SpeedEvilzerojayPC: when they get a bit older - stuff starts appearing on the secondary market - and documentatoin may become a bit more available.15:58
zerojayPCWelcome to the reason why the tablets weren't completely open to begin with.15:58
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SpeedEvilThat said - someone like nokia does have enormous leverage if they choose to use it.15:59
luke-jrzerojayPC: I don't need open source hardware, just open spec15:59
luke-jrzerojayPC: and in this case, I should be able to get a NDA spec at least15:59
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Sure - if you can buy the parts.16:00
zerojayPCluke-jr: Oh, you don't? I thought that was what you were complaining about the tablets for at least the last few months.16:00
crashanddie_what the f is Tim on about with his "stealth operation"?16:00
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Which you usually can't. And sometimes NDAs come with clauses that mean you can't distribute an open-source driver based on them.16:00
zerojayPCcrashanddie_: <-- page 9 of the presentation, lol16:01
crashanddie_luke-jr, Nokia have always said they didn't care about the software, but they didn't feel like playing ball with giving away the specs of the hardware16:02
crashanddie_which in my book, is fair enough. Nokia is a revenue driven business, and phones/hardware is their main revenue point. For them, software is just an enabler.16:02
zerojayPCcrashanddie_: Agreed.16:03
crashanddie_zerojayPC, didn't get your point about proclamation16:03
SpeedEvilPart of the problem is that if nokia make the OS - including all the hardware drivers availale - then any random maker that can find the parts can pretty much crank one out.16:03
zerojayPCThey're already far more open with us than almost any other company out there.16:03
zerojayPCcrashanddie_: It's not my slideshow.16:03
* SpeedEvil almost responds, then spots the almost.16:03
crashanddie_zerojayPC, still don't get why you'd show that to me16:03
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zerojayPCcrashanddie_: Tim's pic is funny there, that's all. If we're even talking about the same Tim.16:04
crashanddie_didn't that was him16:05
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crashanddie_never met the guy16:05
luke-jrzerojayPC: no, my complaint was mainly the closed drivers16:05
zerojayPCYou'll be at summit?16:05
crashanddie_zerojayPC, dunno, maybe, have to see if I can fit in my schedule16:05
crashanddie_been asked a lot over the past few days to join the gig, but it's out of my hands, reallyu16:05
zerojayPCluke-jr: Yes and the closed drivers are a symptom of what I said.16:06
luke-jrclosed drivers != closed source hardware16:06
luke-jranyhow, bbl16:06
crashanddie_luke-jr, no, but open source drivers give you a *lot* more information than closed source ones16:06
crashanddie_luke-jr, you get heaps of information about the actual hardware, and that's something that is very hard to sell to higher management16:07
crashanddie_they don't hear "some of our users, maybe a decimal percentage of the market will love this", they hear "we're giving open access to our hardware to all and any of our competitors"16:08
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* wazd drools16:10
RST38hmoo all16:12
RST38hwazd: Ah come on, it runs S4016:12
zerojayPCStskeeps: ?16:12
StskeepszerojayPC: got bored and saw how i could emulate fremantle ui on n8x0 :)16:12
RST38hBTW, why have I started receiving 419 scams from Poland?16:12
StskeepsRST38h: i moved here! ;)16:12
RST38hSts: I knew! I KNEW! :)))16:13
wazdRST38h: it's not about functionality :)16:13
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RST38hwazd: 320x240 display16:14
RST38hAnd yes, it is shiny but iPhone is shinier16:14
wazdRST38h: I guess it's s steel phone, so nothing compares :)16:15
SpeedEvilAlso - more importantly - open sourced - GPL - drivers mean that anyone can simply use them on a similar architecture phone with almost no cost16:15
* RST38h goes over his mental list of steel phones16:15
SpeedEvilRather than having to get your own one that actually works.16:16
RST38hwazd: Old Siemenses would probably do16:16
zerojayPCStskeeps: Oh nice. :)16:16
zerojayPCYes.. there was one that had this weird sort of metal outer lining you had to take off each time you wanted to take a battery out or switch SIMs. What a pain.16:17
zerojayPCIt was like an S&M phone.16:17
jaskafits in lederhosen?:)16:18
Stskeepsit was german, of course it was S&M ;)16:18
zerojayPCHad to be one of the strangest phones we got at work.16:19
zerojayPCThen there was also a Samsung... smallest phone I've seen yet. Looked like an mp3 player. The keypad was two columns of 5 keys.16:19
zerojayPCCost something like $1200 unlocked.16:19
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zerojayPCI was out drinking the night before with coworkers.16:20
zerojayPCAnd my metabolism SUCKS.16:20
zerojayPCSo even though I stopped drinking at midnight, I was still slightly tipsy at 8am.16:20
zerojayPCI get a package from our New York office. Chocolates from our localization head saying thank you for the work I did.16:21
zerojayPCI pop one into my mouth.. and it's one of those rum-filled ones.16:21
zerojayPCInstantly, I'm back to being full-on smashed at work.16:21
zerojayPCSo I run up to my boss and just tell her.16:21
Stskeepsbetter than hangovers so bad you can't recall how to code16:21
Robot101zerojayPC: good times! :)16:22
zerojayPC"I am... w-w-w-wwaasted right now and I SWEAR, it's NOT my fault!16:22
* chx never drinks alcohol. problem solved.16:22
zerojayPCShe's cool with it.16:22
zerojayPCI walk into our kitchen with this brand new Samsung that we paid $1200 for.16:22
zerojayPCIt slips out of my hands while I'm walking, my foot ends up punting it under the fridge.16:22
zerojayPCI look around to see if anyone saw.16:23
zerojayPCMy boss is behind me with a big smile on her face.16:23
zerojayPC"New office rule, no chocolates the day after a drunk night out?"16:23
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zerojayPCAnd in the end, it turns out that Samsung wasn't the actual phone we ordered, so...16:25
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crashanddie_RST38h, why would nigerian law apply to poland?16:26
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RST38hzerojay: What Samsung model may cost $1200 ???16:28
RST38hcrashanddie: That may be the reason why it is coming from Poland, yes16:28
zerojayPCRST38h: I don't remember which model it was but this was over two years ago. Some super small mp3 player sized phone.16:29
zerojayPCSamsung X???16:29
zerojayPCWe only had it for a very short time, otherwise I would have remembered the model.16:29
* RST38h knows these (with mp3 player on one side, phone on another) but none of them could cost that much16:31
zerojayPCIt was one of the first. It was EXTREMELY small.16:32
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zerojayPCless than 50% the size of your average small flip.16:32
RST38hthat was it16:32
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zerojayPC - Looks like this, except smaller still. There was only room for two columns of keys instead of the three here.16:33
* RST38h found this one:
zerojayPCAH HA!16:34
zerojayPCFound it.16:34
RST38hYepp...X830, found it as well16:34
zerojayPCA real POS.16:34
RST38hLooks like a fashion accessory. $1200??? Crazy.16:35
zerojayPCSent it back because the screen size was FAR too small for us to port our games to.16:35
RST38hhey you ca port to n900 now =)16:35
zerojayPC128x220 doesn't sound right though.16:36
RST38hof course, MIDP on such a small screen will suck speed-wise16:36
zerojayPCWell, we've been doing iPhone stuff lately.16:36
RST38hIs it easily portable to outside the walled garden btw?16:36
zerojayPCNeed to have Unity3D ported. Oh well.16:36
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RST38h(the question arised a few times on t.m.o)16:37
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zerojayPCI'm not the best person to ask, but I know that we use a middleware solution called Unity3D for our projects so unless that gets ported to N900... it's just not going to happen.16:37
zerojayPCCode itself is all objective C, I think.16:38
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zerojayPCI tend to stay away from doing programming at work so again, not the best person to ask.16:39
RST38hWhat DO you do? =)16:49
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zerojayPCYou just asked me the worst possible question. lol16:49
zerojayPCNot because I do nothing.16:50
zerojayPCBut because I do a little bit of everything.16:50
zerojayPCI might be proofreading one day, QA another, minor programming fixes, working on game pitches/game design, documentation, art.... whatever.16:50
zerojayPCIt's actually something that is supposed to be done at some point... nailing down a specific task list for me.16:51
zerojayPCI'm the only floater in the company. My timesheets are *insane*.16:52
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vasily_pupkinanybody know how can I debug maemo kernel?16:59
vasily_pupkini need at least stack trace before kernel panic16:59
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zerojayPCSpeedEvil: Haha.. yeah, except I know where I'll be floating eventually. ;)17:11
RST38hzerojayPC: Sounds dangerous employment-security-wise17:13
RST38hzerojayPC: But at least you must be able to contact the Unity3D guys and talk them into porting to Maemo ;)17:13
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zerojayPCRST38h: Actually, it's quite the opposite. I'm very safe because I can do so many things. I'm one of the few people still there since I started 4 years ago after 3 rounds of layoffs.17:16
zerojayPCRST38h: I'll try.17:16
zerojayPCRST38h: My only issue is... if I do lose my job, I have no idea how to describe what I did, lol.17:17
zerojayPCWith a simple title.17:17
SpeedEvilzerojayPC: technojanitor.17:18
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zerojayPCOne of the higher ups suggested "King of All Cosmos"17:19
SpeedEvilCorporate wide problem-solver?17:19
RST38hSupreme Leader, yes17:19
RST38hAre there job openings for supreme leaders?17:19
zerojayPCProbably "assistant producer" in the end.17:20
SpeedEvilRST38h: North Korea seems to have some occasionally.17:20
SpeedEvilRST38h: the interview process is tough.17:20
zerojayPCBe sure to add "Kim" somewhere to your name.17:20
zerojayPCand enjoy American movies.17:20
zerojayPCBut still hate Americans.17:20
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Firebird9Hmm, odd, after apt-get upgrading, my tablet can't connect to my wireless access point17:22
* RST38h wonders what the perks are. Korean girls?17:22
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SpeedEvilRST38h: Getting to play with _really_ large fireworks17:24
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zerojayPCUnless I can get good hamburgers there, it's a no-g.17:29
zerojayPCno go.17:29
javispedroFirebird9: the wonders of having extras-devel when upgrading I guess. Even though I don't know what could cause that.17:29
RST38hzreojay: You can command your submariners to kidnap the best US ha,burger chief17:29
RST38hchef sorry17:29
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FIrebirdInteresting, ghosting doesn't say "Killed by services" anymore17:31
FIrebirdjavispedro, when I try to connect to any access point it either gives "Cannot get IP address" or "Network Error" :/ hope I don't have to reflash17:31
RST38htry disabling security for now17:33
crashanddie_hamburger chief17:34
crashanddie_sounds like proper american army or police stuff17:34
FIrebirdRST38h, already tried17:35
FIrebirdboth the N800 and N810 can't connect after upgrading17:35
javispedrograb a list of the packages that were upgraded17:36
javispedroand then deupgrade any "suspicious" ones17:37
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FIrebirdwish I knew how to do that.. there's alot of packages in dist-upgrade.. but no internets17:40
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javispedrowho uploaded an updated udhcpc package to -devel?17:44
javispedroFIrebird: downgrade it. "apt-get install udhcpc=0.9.8cvs20050303-2osso6"17:44
javispedroah, damn17:44
javispedroyou have no internets.... :(17:44
javispedrocan't you get a usbnet connection or something like that? the orig package is in the tableeter/passwd protected repo17:45
fralshmm, lots of swedish retailers got the n900 listed as 2009-09-28.. :D17:45
Stskeepsjavispedro: there really should be a ban on uploading packages that are in SDK17:45
RST38hquite possible17:45
Stskeeps / on device17:46
crashanddie_frals, I'd be more interested in the Finnish retailers17:46
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: Not entirely (ones in the SDK). Until the device is shipped with the same amount of libs that the SDK comes with, a ban isn't really gonna work :)17:46
javispedroStskeeps: actually, that version does not come from the sdk (which has -2osso6 version too)17:46
GAN800lol @ karma thread17:46
Stskeepsjavispedro: lovely17:47
crashanddie_GAN800, link17:47
crashanddie_GAN800, debian already has a solution about this17:50
FIrebirdhmm, javispedro anyway to download it through wget?17:50
crashanddie_GAN800, popularity contest17:50
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javispedroFIrebird: since it seems to be same version than the freely available sdk one,
zerojayPCcrashanddie_: No kidding.17:50
Stskeepsstill, there really should be efforts karma17:51
crashanddie_I seriously don't get what all the fuss is about with the karma stuff17:51
crashanddie_it's creating more problems than anything else17:51
zerojayPCFor the vast majority of people, it's not.17:51
zerojayPCFor one or two people maybe.17:51
crashanddie_we have developers spending time on useless algorithms which only fuel an epeen contest, and the noise it generates is just stupid17:51
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crashanddie_I think we've seen it recently with the amount of people available for election to the council17:52
Stskeepscrashanddie_: well, since sponsorship and devices are normally based on karma, i think it's fair things should count :P17:52
crashanddie_only people who deliberately keep their karma low are not electable17:52
crashanddie_(like me)17:52
crashanddie_Stskeeps, well then we need to stop it17:52
crashanddie_like quim says, it's very easy to boost up your karma by rating shit, blogging shit, and talking shit17:52
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Stskeepsah, blogging not so easily anymore17:53
zerojayPCBy being active in the community.17:53
Stskeepsyeah, what zerojayPC said :P17:53
crashanddie_but in the end, the people who matter (say, enablers for meetings, the guys who work their ass off for a summit), those who create the things that make this community what it is get diddlysquat17:53
Stskeepscrashanddie_: that's why i say we need effort karma :P17:54
javispedroFIrebird: if downgrading udhcpc fixes it, please tell, we'll have to ban it from reaching extras... :S17:54
crashanddie_that was a preemptive no17:54
Stskeepsi don't get that much karma for Mer, let's say, even though it's been a major part of my life for a year now.. wazd doesn't get anything for all the artwork he does, etc17:54
FIrebirdjavispedro, thanks, it fixed it17:54
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zerojayPCStskeeps: You're also not working on Mer because you expect something in return.17:55
crashanddie_Stskeeps, how about we use something called reputation based on merit? It's been working in most communities since the beginning of time17:55
StskeepszerojayPC: i do it for job opportunities past education .. and because it's fun17:55
zerojayPCStskeeps: Exactly.17:55
Stskeepsand devices, shiny devices17:55
crashanddie_Are we seriously *that* arrogant that regular communications and sociality standards aren't good enough for us?17:55
Stskeepscrashanddie_: in a big community merit is difficult to quanitify though17:56
crashanddie_no, it's not17:56
GAN800Problem is, it's a big community and it's not always easy to spot the big contributors.17:56
zerojayPCcrashanddie_: Only works when the community is smaller and everything's very visble though.17:56
crashanddie_it's a tiny community gues17:56
crashanddie_this is 25k people we're talking about17:56
crashanddie_from which maybe 2k ever open their mouths17:56
GAN800For instance, the guy who has filed a ton of bugs but rarely participates anywhere else.17:56
crashanddie_we have been lucky there hasn't been any abuse anywhere as of yet17:57
crashanddie_but as soon as Maemo picks up (and it just might do exactly that, with the n900), we're going to get all the losers and script kiddies, and trust me, all those nifty karma scripts and algos? Out the bloody door they'll go17:57
crashanddie_mark my words17:57
GAN800Karma isn't perfect, karma isn't weighted that heavily, either, but it IS helpful for things like sponsorship and device programs.17:57
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StskeepsGAN800: offtopic, are you a thumb keyboard guy or stylus keyboard?17:58
crashanddie_As soon as this community reaches 50k people, Nokia won't even care about karma anymore. There will be a sea of people with huge amounts of karma, and it won't help anything at all. Principles like karma don't scale.17:58
zerojayPCYou know, with all the hype the N900's gotten, I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen more people come to tmo.17:58
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StskeepszerojayPC: there's a load of new faces, really17:59
GAN800Anyway, I mostly feel that this is a discussion that's unlikely to change anybody's minds, so I'm going to spend this time doing something else. :P17:59
Stskeepsand reactivated ones17:59
crashanddie_It's like the number of posts on a bulletin board, in the beginning, you have the one guy with 10 times more posts than anyone else, and you know he's a good guy, and he should be rewarded17:59
GAN800Stskeeps, thumb.17:59
zerojayPCStskeeps: Not anywhere near as many as I expected though.17:59
GAN800Since it was released.17:59
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crashanddie_but as the number of contributors increases, post counts tend to become infinite and it becomes a useless quantifier17:59
GAN800My stylus never leaves the silo anymore.17:59
crashanddie_What you'll have, is quim and some others, looking at the 30 guys they know the names of, and see if they ought to get a new devices or brought to the summit18:00
crashanddie_end of story18:00
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kirmawhere is this karma applied apart the developer devices decisions? I hope not automatically in too many places...18:00
crashanddie_and if you're not part of those "known names", and haven't done anything "right" in the past year that makes you stand out? Though.18:00
Stskeepskirma: except for elections not much18:00
Stskeepsand summit sponsorship18:00
GAN800kirma, it'll be processed by people like Quim, don't worry.18:01
StskeepsGAN800: ah, good, one less person to upset when we switch to the new published HIM thumb keyboards from nokia :P18:01
zerojayPCStskeeps: Better be diagonal mode.18:02
timeless_mbpStskeeps: if you used Bugzilla for Mer, would that help your karma?18:02
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: we do use bugzilla for mer18:02
zerojayPCThey do use Bugzilla for Mer.18:02
kirmaI don't worry, because I simply buy the device. I know bunches of people that got earlier devices basically through contacts, but I certainly don't care that much of getting it free, or that little about going morally sensible way...18:02
zerojayPCAnd yes, it does give karma.18:02
StskeepszerojayPC: saw the screenshots? looks very customizable, sc..18:02
zerojayPCStskeeps: No, I haven't.18:02
zerojayPCAnd with a hardware keyboard included, I doubt I'll ever care. :)18:03
zerojayPCI haven't used the virtual keyboard even once with the N810.18:03
kirmaI worry about election processes and such a bit more. but I suppose there one can look at debian or something?18:03
timeless_mbpGAN800: i still want us to award karma based on ohloh :)18:03
timeless_mbpStskeeps: weren't you guys using something else for project planning?18:04
GAN800timeless_mbp, feel free to propose it.18:04
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ah, yes, our sprint system18:04
timeless_mbpGAN800: if it requires a tmo account, forget it :)18:04
timeless_mbpStskeeps: basically, do you use bugzilla for feature work18:04
timeless_mbpor only bug tracking18:04
GAN800timeless_mbp, maemo-community18:04
timeless_mbpif you aren't using it for feature work, you're losing out on free karma18:04
Stskeepsonly bug tracking mostly18:04
timeless_mbpand not just free karma, valid and important karma18:05
GAN800kirma, low minimum for voter and candidate eligibility, nothing more.18:05
zerojayPCMinimums should probably be raised.18:05
GAN800We already had the voting on that one. ;)18:05
kirmahope it works. I wonder if such community-corporate mix has been experienced with some other open source project before, at such scale that N900 is probably going to be sold. probably not?18:06
GAN800kirma, thus the revolution.18:06
crashanddie_kirma, what do you mean? "scale that N900 is going to be sold" ?18:06
crashanddie_like the 770, n800 or n810 didn't sell?18:06
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: the quantities for the 770/n800/n810 are much lower than our hopes for the n90018:07
javispedroyeah, the n900 is much, much, much more hyped.18:08
zerojayPCAnd we've heard sales for the N800 surprised Nokia already.18:08
crashanddie_timeless_mbp, as far as I can tell, there are no hopes, there never have been any. Every single time, people are surprised at how well each revision is being welcomed and appreciated18:08
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zerojayPCSo... I'm pretty sure they are completely blindsided right now.18:08
kirmaalso: I hope that community can't make outsiders harder to get their (potentially open source) software to the repositories that normal end users see. I mean that a mediocre piece of software from inside the community would be there out of friendship ties, and amazing piece of software from the outside would have hard time in that.18:08
timeless_mbpwe were shocked by the good reception at nokia world18:08
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crashanddie_timeless_mbp, from my discussions this week, I was more under the impression that Nokia has always underestimated the potential of the devices, and just dismissed it as "geek toys", waiting for a second coming18:09
zerojayPCkirma: They can just add it to extras-devel and get it promoted.18:09
rmtSo - how is the N900 as a normal phone, actually?18:09
crashanddie_rmt, pretty good18:09
timeless_mbprmt: quite good actually18:09
timeless_mbpmy sister+parents find the audio quality much better than my previous nokia phones18:09
Stskeepsit'll be the ultimate communicator when the collabora msn etc plugins come in18:09
crashanddie_rmt, sound quality is as expected, the sms discussions are awesome, and for the rest it just behaves like a decent phone (not surprising from a phone manufacturer)18:10
zerojayPCStskeeps: Yes, it will.18:10
kirmacrashhanddie: I think it will be considerably more popular. if it's not going to be, nokia is certainly going to have a big disappointment...18:10
rmtI assume it has multiple modes for audio output (& input?) .. standard to-the-ear operation, on speaker, and headphones.18:10
timeless_mbpthere are two annoyances about conversations18:10
crashanddie_kirma, use the tab key18:10
* Stskeeps is personally waiting for that, - and finding what button is sane data plan on his polish provider18:10
timeless_mbprmt: yes, you can pair a headset18:10
timeless_mbpi use speakerphone18:10
crashanddie_kirma, no, they're not going to be disappointed18:10
timeless_mbpthe speaker is great18:10
timeless_mbpthe bt headset and normal headset just work18:10
rmttimeless, But to-the-ear works also?18:11
zerojayPCA lot of people's complaints about the older tablets are fixed here... phone connectivity, ad2p, etc..18:11
timeless_mbpquite well18:11
crashanddie_kirma, they're taking a huge risk, and hence, by corporate standards, they're lowering the bar by an incredible margin to *not* be disappointed. Expectation management, all that, especially with shareholders18:11
rmtThen I'm pretty much sold .. now, when will we be able to run android apps on it too? :-)18:11
timeless_mbpno java stack18:11
Stskeepsrmt, once the android ubuntu guy gets his finger out, maybe18:11
rmtYeah, lazy arse open source developers. ;-)18:11
timeless_mbpi mean, you're welcome to port java18:11
crashanddie_timeless, jalimo?18:12
* Stskeeps is convinced they're sitting on the code to have a marketing advantage 18:12
* javispedro refrains from restarting the "android is not java" flamewar18:12
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: probably dalvik in this case18:12
crashanddie_plus, android could potentially run on the hardware18:12
timeless_mbpStskeeps: sure, you're welcome to port dalvik too18:12
timeless_mbpeither way, not included in the box18:12
zerojayPCFuck Android... KDE4. ;)18:12
Stskeepsbut free to add :)18:12
suihkulokkiandroid is not java - it just looks like java, sounds like java, and smells like java :P18:12
javispedrobut is NOT java.18:13
* Stskeeps hugs maemo18:13
javispedrobecause if that were the case, then C# would be Java too.18:13
crashanddie_what is it with idiots thinking of any n-series and going "OMFG I WANT A FULL DESKTOP ON IT!!!1111"18:13
crashanddie_why do people even bother with KDE?18:13
crashanddie_zerojayPC, no offence18:13
zerojayPCBecause it works and works well.18:13
Stskeepsi don't want a full desktop, i just want the libs, heh18:13
rmtI think the n900's winning now .. can give my gf the 810. Or buy a jacket with a second front pocket. ;)18:13
qwerty12_N810crashanddie_: same... not a KDE person either18:13
crashanddie_rmt, you going to dash out £499 immediately?18:14
javispedrocrashanddie_, looked at a symbian vnc client  youtube video recently I guess? ;)18:14
zerojayPCcrashanddie_: I would like a full desktop... but with smaller screensizes, it's not really all that great for usability.18:14
crashanddie_javispedro, can't say I have18:14
* kirma admits that only relatively graphically oriented piece of software he has ever adopted is the browser18:14
crashanddie_kirma, how long you been in this community?18:14
* timeless_mbp finally discovers that kirma is a nick18:14
javispedrocrashanddie_, ah, I tough your OMGF quote was straight from it :)18:14
timeless_mbpkirma: what does 'adopted' mean?18:14
rmtcrashanddie_, Old phone's on its way out.. just moved to Germany.. need a SIM and a phone..18:14
crashanddie_javispedro, oh, ok ^^18:14
kirmaall the rest is really in the terminal - thus I don't have much interest of *moving* the desktop experience to the tablets. and it would be even more absurd to move the terminal experience as is :)18:15
rmtMuch Maemo work with Nokia done in Berlin?18:15
timeless_mbprmt: does Nokia Maps count?18:15
zerojayPCDon't think so.18:15
timeless_mbpand beyond that, we probably can't say about where work is done unless it's publicly known18:15
rmtHmm.. I've seen the job adverts for that.. don't think the listings so far are exactly my thing.18:16
Stskeepsmaemo's developed in the caves of Mars!18:16
crashanddie_Don't get me wrong, I love the n900, it's a very nice product, very polished, and finally up to a standard I'd feel comfortable adopting (compared to other smartphones), but please, fanbois, go back to your caves and don't block the intertubes. You're only allowed to yell about it when you have the pre-order coupon18:16
* rmt nods. Smart move.18:16
javispedroeverything's done in Russia, didn't your that guy's review? :)18:16
kirmacrashhanddie_: well, I haven't tinkered with my 770 for quite a while, but I did some back then, and I did play with iPAQ running Linux before that. not very social activity, but still.18:16
crashanddie_kirma, use the tab key18:16
crashanddie_damn, this channel has gone quiet18:20
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zerojayPC[11:48] <crashanddie_> Don't get me wrong, I love the n900, it's a very nice product, very polished, and finally up to a standard I'd feel comfortable adopting (compared to other smartphones), but please, fanbois, go back to your caves and don't block the intertubes. You're only allowed to yell about it when you have the pre-order coupon <--- what do you expect? lol18:21
zerojayPCOf course it's gone quiet. ;)18:21
* crashanddie_ goes back into his troll-cage18:21
javispedrobtw timeless_mbp: fixed the "1GB RAM" "typo" in the store subdomain (by replacing the entire paragraph actually). The one on the frontpage remains.18:21
timeless_mbpjavispedro: yeah... i saw18:22
timeless_mbpreminds me18:22
timeless_mbpsome firm in germany owes me a phone call18:22
aol_can I yell18:23
aol_I have preordered plus may or may not have access to one at work  :P18:23
aol_but I'm total geek so I dont count18:23
crashanddie_Nokia was handing out free n900s on Thursday18:23
aol_where ?18:24
* javispedro suicides18:24
crashanddie_onedotzero event18:24
qwerty12_N810crashanddie_: yes, how is yours doing? ;)18:24
crashanddie_not really *free*18:24
crashanddie_they're lent or something18:24
crashanddie_only to very good people18:24
crashanddie_qwerty12_N810, did you get one?18:24
aol_ah .. who cares about lending ....18:24
qwerty12_N810crashanddie_: You *saw* mine18:25
aol_nokia does that all the time18:25
aol_getting something for free would be something18:25
crashanddie_qwerty12_N810, I was drunk most of the time and looking at pretty ladies, excuse me for not retaining all the details18:25
aol_got my n800 free, but don't have high expectations on the n90018:25
aol_so that's why preorder18:25
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: hmm, any good places to check movie schedules for some cinemas in HEL?18:25 ?18:25
timeless_mbpStskeeps: you in town?18:25
Myrttitimeless_mbp: you beat me to it18:25
crashanddie_for a second I honestly thought Stskeeps was asking for cinema tips in HELL18:26
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: in a week for a week18:26
timeless_mbpi'll be in Ukraine or points around18:26
timeless_mbphave fun18:26
crashanddie_timeless_mbp, in the Ukraine? Kiev?18:26
* timeless_mbp is still trying to figure out Belarus18:26
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: yes18:26
timeless_mbpdo you know people there/18:26
crashanddie_timeless_mbp, what hotel you staying at?18:26
timeless_mbpi fly in Thursday18:26
timeless_mbpi haven't gotten that far18:26
crashanddie_timeless_mbp, I'll probably be at the President Hotel as always18:26
Stskeepstaking along the wife for weekend probably18:26
crashanddie_timeless_mbp, get a cab service booked before arriving there18:26
timeless_mbpfrom the airport or before flying?18:27
crashanddie_timeless_mbp, you do *NOT* want to get one of the 8000 cab drivers that wait at the airport to take you18:27
timeless_mbpi'm considering going to Uman too18:28
timeless_mbpbut i really don't know the area18:28
timeless_mbpmy biggest concern is Belarus18:28
timeless_mbpit seems you need a visa18:28
timeless_mbpbut there's no consulate in Finland18:28
timeless_mbpi could go to Latvia first, which seems a bit unreasonable18:28
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timeless_mbpor i could try to get a visa while I'm in Ukraine18:29
timeless_mbphave you ever gone to belarus?18:30
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: well, that preorder coupon doesn't make me feel happy atm ;-) Waiting for 10/01 and days are so looong18:31
crashanddie_10th of january?18:31
glasseastern europe visas, not fun..18:31
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: 2009/10/0118:31
crashanddie_timeless, you don't need a visa for the Ukraine18:32
kirmarussian visas are pretty trivial to get from Finland, and I think Ukraine doesn't need one. Belarus is trickier, though.18:32
timeless_mbpcrashanddie_: yeah, i know18:32
timeless_mbpbut i'm hoping to go to Minsk too18:32
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kirmabut getting any sort of visa more or less overnight, or in less than a week, is going to be expensive18:33
timeless_mbpdefine expensive?18:33
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: I really wonder why not even devels had a chance to get a pre-massmarket device18:33
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: um18:34
timeless_mbpthat's an inaccurate depiction18:34
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer, devels have18:34
timeless_mbpwe've shared probably two dozen devices to devels who need them18:34
timeless_mbpeveryone else doesn't actually need the hardware until the software is really ready18:34
DocScrutinizerso it's not exactly mentioned in developers newsletter of Nokia anyway18:34
crashanddie_there's like 4 different revisions of the device out there18:35
kirmatimeless_mbp: something like 150 euros extra easily on russian visa, if I remember right.18:35
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer, of course not18:35
kirmaif you want one overnight, I mean.18:35
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: lol. I thought it's exactly other way round18:35
timeless_mbpkirma: yeah, i had that problem, i gave up on getting a russian visa the last time i did the research18:35
kirmaif you have about a week that you can wait, it's much easier. still, stupid bureaucratic process that doesn't serve any other purpose than bringing money to the country and gripes to the foreigners...18:36
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: well, maybe I'm a little biased by developing OM hw and watching the endless FOSS development18:36
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: so...18:37
timeless_mbpmaemo is a channel for a software platform18:37
timeless_mbpif you want to complain about nokia policy18:37
kirmaI think closest belarussian consulate, looking from Helsinki, is in Tallinn. but... still, the "standard" processing time is one week, and quicker costs more money.18:37
timeless_mbpplease do me a favor and contact nokia through some public nokia entrypoint18:37
timeless_mbpe.g. their Press, PR, Corporate Affairs, whatever18:38
timeless_mbpnot here.18:38
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timeless_mbpkirma: since i fly to Kiev this Thursday, that's not helpful :)18:38
DocScrutinizerDid I complain?18:38
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timeless_mbpyou were starting to, yes18:40
DocScrutinizerooh, so sorry18:40
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: please tell me - is it maemo (SW) or N900 (HW) that's responsible for USB breaking specs when charging via USB? (if that ticket actualy holds valid in the end). The ticket reporter told me Nokia guys were rather concerned about that, and I wonder how I could help to debug without the HW - even if that's preliminary SW on there. No kidding or offense intended18:46
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: it was my device :)18:46
* GAN800 needs a battery. :(18:46
timeless_mbpas far as i understand, the hardware isn't responsible for not killing things18:47
GAN800Or a new N900.18:48
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: note that dumb usb chargers can provide 1.2 amps iirc18:49
DocScrutinizerUSB is speced up to 100mA afaik18:50
DocScrutinizer1000 even18:50
DocScrutinizerthe connectors18:50
javispedroback in my days it was 100mA, then 500mA if the device provided the adequate descriptor18:51
timeless_mbp100mA you can get for free w/o asking18:51
timeless_mbp500mA if you ask nicely18:51
DocScrutinizeranyway any device should do a kind of negotiation to draw more than 100. For more than 500 that would be USB2.0-chager specs which have a mandatory short of D+ and D-18:51
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: 1. i'm a software guy18:52
timeless_mbp2. i'm a software guy18:52
timeless_mbp3. in software, it's the job of software to be tolerant of bogus input18:52
timeless_mbpin hardware, the same should apply18:52
kirmaoh, lindi's episode with phone-to-phone charging was... interesting. but not as dramatic as it might seem from the bug report :)18:52
timeless_mbpyeah, it didn't smoke visibly until he removed the battery18:52
timeless_mbpand then it was more of a smell than smoke18:53
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: my question was, does SW or does HW this negotiation in N900 (test for that D/- short to indicate charger)18:53
timeless_mbpi work on a web browser18:54
timeless_mbpi don't do usb work18:54
DocScrutinizeror is it done at all?18:54
timeless_mbpbut in general, it's probably going to be done by software18:54
aol_the miniusb charged phones have to break the usb standard18:54
DocScrutinizerthat's where my demand for a developer device comes in18:54
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: why18:55
aol_otherwise it would take them 10 hours to charge ...18:55
timeless_mbpyou want to get an NDA so you can sue the vendor when it isn't ready for prime time?18:55
timeless_mbpyou think that's going to hold up?18:55
DocScrutinizercan't reproduce the bug otherwise. Can't help fix a possible bug in maemo18:55
SpeedEvilaol_: they don't - the USB standard has extensions specally for chargers18:55
timeless_mbpyou're assuming we aren't aware that the usb behavior isn't per spec18:55
aol_SpeedEvil: hm ok, I did not know that18:55
timeless_mbpwe're not asking for help18:56
crashanddie_who the hell wants an NDA?18:56
DocScrutinizerfine then :-/18:56
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: do note that lindi was warned in advance that the device was not conforming to standards18:58
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timeless_mbpit was a plug-in to my device at your own risk18:58
* DocScrutinizer away... find nicer playground18:58
Stskeepsneat @ bug report19:01
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Stskeepsespecially the temperature jumping 31 to 58 degrees19:02
javispedroYeah. Nice.19:02
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javispedroreminds me of my poor palmt|x trying to power up my usb scanner19:02
javispedroI considered that one defective and sent it back to Palm. I was right.19:03
MrYeti1Is there a separate pymaemo channel?19:05
lardmanhmm, interesting19:06
lardmanMrYeti1: not that I know of, ask away19:06
MrYeti1I'm trying to spawn my hildon-python app from a hildon widget, But get errors about Button arrangements19:06
MrYeti1/home/robin/hamster-applet/hamster/ Warning: IA__g_object_new_valist: object class `HildonTimeButton' has no property named `arrangement' self.start_time = hildon.TimeButton(gtk.HILDON_SIZE_AUTO , hildon.BUTTON_ARRANGEMENT_VERTICAL)19:07
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ShadowJK2A, that's impressive19:10
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MrYeti1Also, How do you use use HomeSystemFont or SmallSystemFont -
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lardmanno idea from me, though the error message for the first one is pretty explicit19:14
ShadowJKon N8x0 there's no charging at all without software, btw19:14
* javispedro wonders when was common sense lost in hw design19:14
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Andy80hi all19:15
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MrYeti1lardman: Yeah, the error message does seem straight-forward, the part confusing me is that it works when not called from the widget.19:20
crashanddie_MrYeti1, library issues19:21
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MrYeti1crashanddie_: An issue with my use of the library? or a deeper problem i can't fix?19:23
Stskeepsmm, typical linux friendly laptops, any hints? and no, i can't get a ARM laptop right now :/19:24
Stskeepsmy last dell overheated with ubuntu to the point i doubt i'll have children19:24
GAN800Laptops suck anyway19:25
crashanddie_MrYeti1, no, your widget doesn't have access to the correct libraries19:27
crashanddie_MrYeti1, that's why it doesn't know that HildonTimeButton has a property named arrangement19:27
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* Stskeeps ponders if the manufacturers will look oddly when i demand a serial port19:27
* MrGoose finds a canola plugin for remember-the-milk19:30
* MrGoose is very happy19:30
paperclip1Stskeeps: Was your last laptop a Vostro 1400/Inspiron 1420, by any chance?19:30
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MrGoosespeaking of which, are vostro laptops any good?19:31
MrGoosethey are a bit cheaper though19:31
paperclip1I have a Vostro 1400, and Fedora 11 runs fine. I had some sound issues in Fedora 10, though.19:32
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paperclip1Also, I had to have the motherboard replaced because the GPU overheated or somesuch.19:33
radicwhere are the names of the menu-entries stored?19:33
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MrGooseI had an xps 1330 laptop with the faulty 8400 nvidia adapter19:33
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MrGooseand I thought that I'll never buy a dell with nvidia in it again19:34
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paperclip1FWIW, the Vostro tech support was excellent.19:35
fralsive had my xps 1330 with the "faulty" 8400 for 2 years now, still no problems with it :+19:35
paperclip1frals: did you update the BOIS?19:35
MrGooseI didnt say that their tech support was bad19:35
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MrGoosebut why produce bad devices in the first place?19:36
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Andy80hey guys... we're over 300 registered people for the summit...19:36
Andy80should we close the registration form?19:36
MrGoosewhat summit?19:36
GAN800Time to start killing them off.19:36
* MrGoose googles19:36
GAN800Maemo Summit19:36
Andy80MrGoose: Maemo Summit19:36
paperclip1If you don't know whether the device will be good or bad, you're better off knowing that the support is good.19:36
jeremiahAndy80: Are you serious? Already 300? Wow.19:37
Andy80more than 300 :)19:37
MrGooseah Netherlands!19:37
jeremiahThey expected 300 but we might get 50019:37
MrGooseyes you can close it now :D19:37
fralsthats how i pick where to buy stuff, even if the product is a tad more expensive its so worth it knowing you are gonna get proper support if something goes to hell19:37
MrGoosefrals: I would've wanted to downgrade from the motherboard with the nvidia adapter to the one with the intel adapter but they wouldnt allow that19:38
MrGoosebecause then they wont be able to give us refurbished nvidia motherboard19:39
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MrGoosefor me that is evil19:39
n6pfkkHi, is there a nxclient available for the N810?19:40
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zeevHi, what is the name of the application that can turn N810 into an wlan access point?20:34
zeev(to share cellular internet connection)20:35
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zeevis there smth. like this?20:38
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zerojayI'm on the roof of a museum with the sum coming down and my feet in blue sand.20:43
Stskeepsshrooms and n900 doesn't go well together?20:44
Stskeepsokay, so a guy is posting on a forum Mer kills internal SD chip because it writes when battery is really low20:46
Stskeepsis there any sort of merit to this?20:46
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crashanddie_zerojay, is the sum like a oephemism for your wife?20:48
SpeedEvilThe hardware should keep a stable voltage, and reset or turn off when it goes out of spec.20:48
SpeedEvilStskeeps: the SD will be run off a regulated supply - as the CPU.20:49
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lardmananyone have Andre's email address handy?20:57
ShadowJKiirc on n8x0 the hw shuts down after the voltage drops below sd write voltage20:57
ShadowJK(but bme and hal-bme should shut it down way before that)20:58
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Khertanarg my nit is still in looping reboot while charging20:59
mojocafekhertan: call neo. it might be a bug in the matrix!20:59
Khertanmojocafe: could you give me the number ?21:00
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MrGooseneo doesnt maintain the matrix21:00
MrGooseits the architect21:00
MrGoosedamn noobs21:00
Khertanseems to be software anyway ... didn't have the problem after flash ...21:01
Khertanbut don't know which apps/things do it21:01
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mojocafehey guys... anyone from britain in here ? I just uploaded the latest mojo and i am sure that britains are going to love it !!!! www.mojocafe.net21:09
mojocafeanyone of you would like to see his/her country flag as full screen widget ?21:09
lardmanlol, people will think I'm a far right21:14
mojocafelardman: what does that mean?21:14
MrGooselardman: use the french flag21:14
lardmana member of the far right21:14
lardmanMrGoose: hmm :)21:14
MrGooseor the libyan flag21:14
MrGoosedoes the pirate party have a flag?21:15
lardmanFSM would be good :)21:15
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thopiekaris that possible? wanna create a chroot as a *.bin, mount it on my N800, with everything needed to write and compile, upload via ttyUSB0 (with host-mode) to my ardunio.21:43
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thopiekarI would just need to link /dev/ttyUSB0 with the one in my chroot, isn't it?21:44
thopiekar- arduino.cc21:45
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MrYeti1I'm still having trouble with my hildon widget...22:05
MrYeti1The first error i get is: /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/ Warning: cannot register existing type `HildonButtonArrangement'22:05
MrYeti1Python... using dir(hildon) gives the same as running an app.22:06
MrYeti1*running from the app22:06
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KhertanHello !22:11
KhertanTHIS RELEASE WAS ACCIDENTIALLY DELETED, PLEASE WAIT FOR 0.16<<< hum ... when i decide to scratch my sys ...22:12
StskeepsKhertan: yeah, i messed up22:13
Stskeeps'm regenerating the images right now22:13
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rm_youok srsly need to decide when i'm going to arrive in amsterdam... i'm leaning towards early thursday morning?22:19
Khertansame here22:20
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rm_youam hoping to manage arriving at the same time as others22:20
rm_youso we could all catch a cab/bus/train/whatever22:20
rm_youstrength in numbers :P22:21
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thopiekarhey where can i find the apt's uninstall scripts.. need to edit some to get my chroot work22:32
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t_s_othe stuff that apt performs when you uninstall a specific deb? try opening the deb with a archive program as iirc its a tar-ball...22:33
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crashanddie_thopiekar, use dpkg-buildpackage and the like to extract the source from your .deb22:34
crashanddie_thopiekar, you'll get the install and uninstall scripts22:34
crashanddie_thopiekar, just read about .deb file structure as a whole, and how it is created22:35
thopiekarI have trouble with removing dbus and pulseaudio.. when removing them it trys to stop the services but they return 1 :/22:35
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qwerty12_N810thopiekar: /var/lib/dpkg/info22:35
crashanddie_why in the name of whatever would you want to remove dbus and pulseaudio?22:35
crashanddie_I mean, pulseaudio, fair enough22:35
crashanddie_but dbus?????22:35
crashanddie_what are you trying to do?22:36
thopiekarcrashanddie_: see above :P22:36
crashanddie_because if it's breaking your system, I'd say you're pretty much on crack22:36
crashanddie_err, track22:36
crashanddie_thopiekar, you should *not* have to remove dbus or whatever just to chroot into another environment22:37
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thopiekarhmm k22:37
crashanddie_wow, penguinbait a candidate to the council22:38
Stskeepscrashanddie_: world's coming to an end22:38
thopiekarthats why i want to deinstall them22:38
crashanddie_andrewfblack and penguinbait, if those two make it in the council, we're done for22:38
thopiekarStskeeps: :D22:38
vasily_pupkinany ideas about porting mac80211 on 2.6.21? :]22:39
Stskeepscrashanddie_: nah, afb is slightly more sane22:39
crashanddie_Stskeeps, he probably did the shortest introduction in the history of introductions22:40
thopiekardo you have a solution?22:40
crashanddie_"Hi, I'm afb, and I'd like to be on the council. kthxbai"22:40
crashanddie_thopiekar, yes, but it doesn't involve hacking away at uninstall scripts so you won't be happy22:40
Stskeepscrashanddie_: a candidate for the people who doesn't care about introductions :)22:40
crashanddie_Stskeeps, it's important, the guy basically said "I couldn't be bothered to go through the full process the last time, so I just gave up"22:41
crashanddie_"I decided to run for the Council this time I have considered it the first two times but never followed thru on signing up I think its time I go for it."22:41
crashanddie_I mean... seriously22:41
KhertanStskeeps: using image 0.14 and doing an apt-get upgrade isn't enought ?22:41
Stskeepscrashanddie_: *shrug* :)22:42
crashanddie_yo, rideau, enought?22:42
crashanddie_t'essayes de tricher au scrabble, c'est ca?22:43
StskeepsKhertan: not sure if we broke anything 0.14->0.1522:43
Khertannot sure ... ok i ll try :)22:43
Stskeepsalso i'm not sure 0.14 images are there :P22:44
Khertani m sure ;) i can't found it :)22:46
RST38hMoo all22:46
Stskeepsuploading new 0.15 images :P22:46
Khertanso i ll wait that you release the 0.15 again :)22:46
Khertanoh thanks22:46
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Khertanan estimated time ?22:50
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Stskeepsuploading right now:P it's 1.8gb22:50
Stskeepsat 500k/s22:50
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radicIf I start any application there isn't "XXX Loading"22:54
qwerty12_N810That only comes if you load a porn site from the application menu22:54
radicI mean there aren't displayed the correct names22:54
radichi qwerty12_N81022:55
qwerty12_N810hi radic22:55
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LoCusF_ <- compcache packages with automatic startup on reboot, for diablo23:12
Stskeepshow is stability_23:14
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* RST38h rofls23:15
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* Stskeeps installs happily23:16
RST38hApparently, RedHat Gnome comes with a font where I and l look exactly the same23:16
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RST38hWhen asked what she sees, a [blonde?] girl says "well, it is a capital pipe symbol and a small pipe symbol"23:17
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khertan|| ?23:20
khertan|  ll |||| || ll ||||||| ll ?23:21
LoCusF_Stskeeps: its good now, I got Nitin Gupta to fix the ARM version for android and n810, so no more crashes :)23:21
StskeepsLoCusF_: now a user23:21
LoCusF_when Fremantle comes, I'll compile it right away23:22
LoCusF_cool :)23:22
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LoCusF_remember to disable swap for mmc first23:23
LoCusF_now sleep ->23:23
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radicthe Map-application couldn't download any maps23:34
luke-jrRST38h: the difference between I and l in Console is 1 pixel23:35
radicluke-jr: two!23:35
luke-jrno, one23:36
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timeless_mbpanyone know the person who's maintaining...23:45
AStormradic: report problems to Wayfinder.23:45
crashanddie_luke-jr, change the font?23:45
AStormit's theirs23:45
crashanddie_I think that's why fonts were in such popular use23:45
luke-jrcrashanddie_: I like the font.23:45
crashanddie_because some people prefer certain fonts, and others prefer others!23:45
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AStormcrashanddie_: ayub23:45
crashanddie_timeless_mbp, maintaining what?23:46
AStormthe nokia fonts are fine with me23:46
AStormbut dejavu series is great too23:46
crashanddie_AStorm, ?23:46
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AStormcrashanddie_: about fonts, duh23:47
crashanddie_is that a font?23:47
AStormno. that's ayup with a typo23:47
crashanddie_Cuz google gives me a rebel leader in 945, and a paki president23:47
AStormyou never know what you find after googling a typo23:48
AStormit could've meant something dirty23:48
crashanddie_AStorm, what's your name?23:48
AStormreal or handle?23:48
AStormalso, /msg nickserv23:48
AStormoh, nopes23:49
AStormI must've removed it23:49
AStormRadosław Szkodziński23:49
crashanddie_bloody hell23:49
crashanddie_I'm not even going to bother googling that23:49
crashanddie_Sebastian the Crab (full name "Horatio Thelonious Ignacious Crustaceous Sebastian") is a Disney character who first appears in Disney's 1989 The Little Mermaid23:50
AStormyou'd find only my traces.23:50
qwerty12_N810crashanddie_ <-- cyberstalker23:50
AStormI'm careful to never put my address in public forms23:50
RST38hcrashanddie: Have all Disney characters got names like that?23:50
crashanddie_Faheem: The definition is derived from the Arabic verb 'fa-he ma' or the source 'Fahm' which means to lack understanding.23:51
RST38hAnd BTW, what was the linker line for The Little Mermaid? Which libraries did they link against?23:51
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crashanddie_hey EdLin23:51
RST38hShit, qwerty is out of luck =)23:51
EdLintrying to get znc to work properly, sorry for the joins and parts23:51
crashanddie_EdLin, just noticed you had the securabit mask23:52
crashanddie_Far Cry 2 SUCKS23:52
zerojayI work with one of the sound guys from FC2.23:53
crashanddie_qwerty12_N810, seriously, you were crying cuz you didn't have any cool games, FC2 would make you regret that statement. After playing FC2, even tetris or pacman is new and refreshing23:53
crashanddie_most boring piece of shit ever made, can't believe ubisoft released that crap23:54
AStormcrashanddie_: in a lazy translation, my real name could mean: one-who-is-famous-for-advice23:54
crashanddie_I guess you just proved a point there23:54
AStormor for happiness23:55
AStormdepending on your take on the name.23:55
qwerty12_N810crashanddie_: Hmm? TBH, I barely play games. Last game I played (properly) was GTA: SA...23:55
* zerojay Ubisoft23:55
crashanddie_Assassin's Creed was an actually good game23:55
crashanddie_but then again, it was the french canadian division of Ubisoft who developed that...23:56
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zerojayI was playing through ac1 when my boss plopped the script for ac2 on my desk.23:56
crashanddie_And the only way for the french canadian game industry to produce anything that's remotely bad would be for them to tell 3 year olds to snort crack23:56
zerojayThanks for ruining the series for me, lol23:56
crashanddie_zerojay, bollocks, there's no script23:56
zerojayThere's a full script.23:56
crashanddie_oh, ac23:57
crashanddie_no fc, lol, misread that23:57
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crashanddie_zerojay, what do you do, exactly?23:57
crashanddie_zerojay, let's be honest though, the end of ac1 was seriously rushed23:57
zerojayWasn't rushed.23:57
qwerty12_N810crashanddie_: Take the "Canadian" part out and all one can expect to see is bad games23:58
crashanddie_absolutely no clue at all what's happening, completely "omfg da vinci code was good, let's go that way too"23:58
crashanddie_did dan brown actually help write the script?23:58
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zerojayThe's so much i wish i could tell you right now.23:58
crashanddie_took me 20 minutes alone to understand that I could use the eagle vision23:59
crashanddie_(I got the game on wednesday, finished it on thursday morning)23:59
zerojayYou'll see more "bleeding" like that.23:59
crashanddie_well, I'm guessing that subject 16 left a lot of clues around the place23:59

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