| johnsq | Shapeshifter: but without use only standby | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| * javispedro has still some hopes for the 3d n8x0 driver... i want to code something in ogles1 | 00:01 | |
| PinkKroliczeK | Shapeshifter: when you dont use alot yes aprox 9-10days | 00:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | nice. | 00:02 |
| ksysio | i use this only when i`m in work :> | 00:03 |
| ksysio | haha but now i`m unemployed :D | 00:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Goddamnit | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N810, I confused easyroot and rootsh again. | 00:19 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | :) | 00:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm just going to set up a text expansion so that easyroot is always replaced with rootsh whenever I try to type it. | 00:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why do people ask questions like, "why does everyone say I don't want to use it (how do you know??)," | 00:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Technical people usually have a good idea of where and how normal people are going to get themselves in trouble. | 00:22 |
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| javispedro | and the sniff that just by how you write your first question.... most of the time :P | 00:22 |
| javispedro | s/the/they/ | 00:22 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: and they sniff that just by how you write your first question.... most of the time :P | 00:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-WniM2KO-E | 00:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Comment 1 | 00:23 |
| AStorm | ha, ha, ha | 00:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | YouTube comments are the best. | 00:23 |
| AStorm | I found the best resampler to use on maemo yet | 00:24 |
| AStorm | the one in latest Sox. | 00:24 |
| javispedro | ........ | 00:24 |
| * AStorm will rewrite it in DSP later. | 00:24 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm going to sign in just to thumb that comment. | 00:24 |
| AStorm | that resampler is very simd-compatible | 00:24 |
| acouto | javispedro, again, sorry i fell, my internet is bad | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to buy Tim a teleprompter. | 00:25 |
| acouto | javispedro, are you there? | 00:25 |
| frals | <GeneralAntilles> Technical people usually have a good idea of where and how normal people are going to get themselves in trouble. <- According to my course I'm reading at uni atm this isn't really true :) | 00:25 |
| javispedro | acouto: yes. | 00:26 |
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| frals | on the other hand all this human-computer-interaction sounds like a lot of guessing and assumptions.. :P | 00:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | frals, I should probably clarify. They know if a user is asking why they need R&D mode then they definitely don't need. ;) | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not that an engineer can predict where failure points are going to be. | 00:26 |
| frals | Right, makes more sense :) | 00:27 |
| frals | And I can agree with that ;) | 00:27 |
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| acouto | javispedro, about the compile the gps example.. So i compiled with pkg-config, but when i execute in n810 appear a error "./example_gps: line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpected" | 00:30 |
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| javispedro | acouto, wha? why don't you do a "head -n 1 example_gps" and tell me what you see | 00:32 |
| javispedro | ? | 00:32 |
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| acouto | javispedro, sorry but i didnt understand | 00:34 |
| javispedro | run "head -n 1 example_gps" on your tablet | 00:34 |
| Firebird | hm, is there such a thing as an OpenGL based web browser? | 00:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Firebird, yes. | 00:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | The first one is from, like 1998. | 00:36 |
| Firebird | how about, recent and actively developed | 00:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Firebird, probably, but I don't know off-hand. | 00:36 |
| acouto | javispedro, ok http://pastie.org/618052 | 00:37 |
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| acouto | javispedro, sorry i ran the compiled file http://pastie.org/61805 | 00:40 |
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| smackpotato | anyone check out the jobs nokia is advertising at maemo.org | 00:41 |
| smackpotato | don't they need anyone to mop the floors | 00:42 |
| * smackpotato wonders what kind of job I could get after not being employed since 1986 | 00:43 | |
| RST38h | Unemployment councillor? | 00:44 |
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| javispedro | acouto: bad link. i tried to guess the missing number but other than someone's sensitive data couldn't find whatever you were trying to show me | 00:44 |
| RST38h | brb | 00:44 |
| smackpotato | lol | 00:45 |
| javispedro | acouto: so please repaste | 00:45 |
| acouto | javispedro, the original code? | 00:46 |
| javispedro | whatever you tried to show me last. | 00:46 |
| acouto | javispedro, ok just a minute | 00:47 |
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| acouto | javispedro, the code = (http://pastie.org/618062) the commands= (http://pastie.org/618067) | 00:50 |
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| javispedro | ah yeah, I forgot | 00:51 |
| javispedro | it is a x86 binary | 00:51 |
| javispedro | acouto: DIABLO_X86 means you're creating binaries for x86, for your computer. | 00:52 |
| javispedro | not for your tablet. | 00:52 |
| javispedro | switch to DIABLO_ARMEL, for example by typing "sb-menu". | 00:52 |
| javispedro | then select then DIABLO_ARMEL. | 00:52 |
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| acouto | javispedro, ok ill switch the target | 00:52 |
| acouto | javispedro, a moment | 00:53 |
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| acouto | javispedro, already | 00:54 |
| acouto | javispedro, so i ll recompile the code and send to tablet | 00:56 |
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| andre__ | yay. one week away, 250 new bugmail messages :) | 00:58 |
| javispedro | wb andre__ :) | 00:58 |
| andre__ | thanks :) | 00:58 |
| VDVsx | andre__, puff, subscribe some threads on TMO and you'll see ;) | 01:00 |
| VDVsx | andre__, btw, wb ;) | 01:00 |
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| acouto | javispedro, appeared a new erro, it didnt find the gpsbt.h (http://pastie.org/618080) | 01:01 |
| javispedro | acouto: because the _ARMEL and _X86 targets are separated, whatever you do on one you have to do on the other one. | 01:02 |
| javispedro | acouto: so apt-get install libgpsbt-dev, osso-gpsd-dev, etc | 01:02 |
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| johnsq | the archos 5 internet tablet looks good | 01:12 |
| javispedro | yeah, and the GUI fremantleish | 01:13 |
| javispedro | with that black title bar with "back" button | 01:13 |
| johnsq | good stolen is better than bad new | 01:13 |
| acouto | javispedro, i have an compiled but now appeared just w)arning (http://pastie.org/618099 | 01:14 |
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| javispedro | acouto: and the compiler is probably right, but for now it's harmless. | 01:15 |
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| acouto | javispedro, but in this case, the program not run ( http://pastie.org/618107 ) | 01:20 |
| javispedro | ah well, and I'm going to bed | 01:20 |
| acouto | javispedro, hehe ok... thanks for help me | 01:21 |
| acouto | javispedro, :) | 01:21 |
| javispedro | np | 01:21 |
| acouto | :) | 01:22 |
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| pupnik_ | javispedro seen drpocketsnes port to iphone? arm optimizations by zodttd | 01:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | A typo got me http://www.watchismo.com/nooka-watches.aspx | 03:07 |
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| mfinkle | anyone have a good way to dynamically determine if my application is running on an n810 or an n900? | 05:01 |
| mfinkle | or better yet, anyone have a good to way determine the real dpi on the n810 or n900? | 05:02 |
| mfinkle | if I can't find the actual dpi (not the 96dpi lie), then knowing if it/s an n810 or n900 would at least allow me to hack a solution | 05:02 |
| Firebird | you could do some math to calculate the DPI :o | 05:03 |
| lcuk2 | mfinkle, read and parse | 05:06 |
| lcuk2 | /proc/component_version | 05:06 |
| lcuk2 | get the token that is for product | 05:06 |
| lcuk2 | and check it against "RX-34" "RX-44" "RX-48" and "RX-51" | 05:07 |
| lcuk2 | if none is specified in the file, use the default :) | 05:07 |
| lcuk2 | its likely not a nokia | 05:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | 225dpi for the N810 | 05:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The N900 is around ~265dpi | 05:08 |
| luke-jr | mfinkle: X.org reports the wrong DPI? | 05:08 |
| lcuk2 | yes luke-jr | 05:08 |
| luke-jr | ew | 05:08 |
| lcuk2 | its so the software doesnt blow up | 05:08 |
| luke-jr | :/ | 05:08 |
| luke-jr | lcuk2: reporting wrong DPI = blow up | 05:08 |
| lcuk2 | if you tell lots of software a ridiculous dpi things look "odd" | 05:08 |
| luke-jr | nothing ridiculous about 265 dpi | 05:09 |
| mfinkle | lcuk2: thanks! | 05:09 |
| luke-jr | buggy software should be fixed | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Easier to fudge with X than to fix buggy software. | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Resources are finite, things have to ship in a reasonable amount of time. | 05:09 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: buggy software is a minority, thank God | 05:09 |
| lcuk2 | most software on the planet is buggy | 05:09 |
| luke-jr | well | 05:09 |
| luke-jr | buggy in THIS respect | 05:09 |
| lcuk2 | this is a common thing | 05:09 |
| mfinkle | yeah, we just want 8 millimeters to be 8 millimeters on both devices :) | 05:09 |
| chx | bah, millimeters! | 05:10 |
| mfinkle | I have a feeling gecko won't make it easy for me anyway | 05:10 |
| chx | that stops us from using iphone audio stuff | 05:10 |
| chx | one damned millimeter. | 05:10 |
| mfinkle | it'll blowup fonts or something | 05:10 |
| luke-jr | mfinkle: Gecko ftl :( | 05:10 |
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| mfinkle | luke-jr: I don't think mozilla would be happy with me if we wrote fennec in webkit :) | 05:11 |
| luke-jr | mfinkle: KHTML ftw? | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | :roll: | 05:12 |
| mfinkle | luke-jr: I don't think mozilla would be happy with me if we wrote fennec in /insert any engine here that is not gecko/ | 05:12 |
| mfinkle | plus I actually like writing in XUL | 05:13 |
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| fureddo | Hi, is it possible to remove the minimize button for a window? Usually, in Qt, I use setWindowFlags() to do that. In Maemo, it doesn't work. | 05:31 |
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| Dantonic | hwy guys anyone use flite or espeak? | 05:55 |
| Dantonic | hey* | 05:55 |
| Dantonic | johnx, i know you do or have in the past | 06:00 |
| Dantonic | ;P | 06:00 |
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| johnx | Dantonic, used it for about 5 minutes to put together that hack | 06:10 |
| johnx | but I'll try and answer a question | 06:10 |
| johnx | fureddo, in maemo4? not possible I think | 06:10 |
| fureddo | Yeah, it looks like so. Also, I have overridden eventFilter() to try to catch the event and ignore it but it doesn't work either. | 06:11 |
| fureddo | The event is probably handled before it reaches the window's eventFilter() method. | 06:12 |
| fureddo | Maybe you will have an alternative solution. | 06:12 |
| fureddo | I explain the problem. | 06:12 |
| johnx | matchbox-wm is pretty much purpose built to override window requests | 06:13 |
| johnx | but yeah, explain your goal :) | 06:13 |
| fureddo | I have a window that is used in fullscreen. | 06:13 |
| fureddo | From that window, I can invoke a modal dialog. | 06:14 |
| fureddo | However, the dialog has a Qt::Window style. | 06:14 |
| fureddo | So the dialog has a minimize button on its title bar. | 06:14 |
| fureddo | If the user minimize the dialog window. | 06:15 |
| fureddo | ,... It cannot reopen it because the parent window (that is fullscreen) hides the minimized icon. | 06:15 |
| johnx | any way to make it the proper type, ie a real modal dialog? | 06:15 |
| fureddo | The only way out is a shutdown. | 06:15 |
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| fureddo | If I use the default window type, it works but I would like the window to be resizable. | 06:16 |
| fureddo | Dialog modal windows don't seem to be resizable. | 06:17 |
| johnx | I don't think there's something that fits your requirements... | 06:17 |
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| fureddo | Yeah, maybe. A good compromise will be to use the default dialog style and make the window larger. | 06:18 |
| johnx | though, do you mean "user resizeable" or "the developer can create it with an arbitrary size"? | 06:18 |
| johnx | the 1st won't happen, but the latter seems likely | 06:18 |
| fureddo | I would have liked the window to be user-resizable but it's probably not possible. | 06:18 |
| johnx | never saw one in maemo 4 that is | 06:18 |
| johnx | at least not with the default wm settings | 06:19 |
| fureddo | So I will set the size of the window programmatically to be larger and it will be good enough. | 06:19 |
| fureddo | Thanks johnx. | 06:20 |
| johnx | no problem :) | 06:20 |
| fureddo | Another idea could be to have the dialog in full-screen. This way, no way to minimize it, right? | 06:21 |
| johnx | yup | 06:21 |
| fureddo | Or is there a keyboard accelerator to perform minimize? | 06:21 |
| johnx | off the top of my head, a couple apps do this | 06:21 |
| johnx | ah, good question | 06:21 |
| johnx | on the n810 there might be | 06:22 |
| fureddo | I will google for it. | 06:22 |
| johnx | do you have an n810? | 06:22 |
| fureddo | No | 06:22 |
| johnx | let me look real quick | 06:22 |
| fureddo | Do you know if there is a keyboard accelerator too to switch from one window to another? | 06:22 |
| fureddo | That could also be useful to reactivate the minimized dialog window that was unreachable. | 06:23 |
| johnx | ah, looks like the kb accelerators for minimize and "task switcher" only work on a bluetooth/usb keyboard | 06:25 |
| fureddo | F7 and F8 are Zoom in/Zoom out keys. I don't know if it means Maximize/minimize though. | 06:25 |
| johnx | they need alt | 06:25 |
| johnx | so you don't have any device at all? | 06:25 |
| fureddo | No, only a Zaurus SL-C1000 | 06:25 |
| fureddo | That's very unconvenient. | 06:25 |
| johnx | ah, I might have even asked you that same question before :) | 06:26 |
| johnx | sorry, long day. I remember talking to you now :) | 06:26 |
| fureddo | You did. No prob. | 06:26 |
| fureddo | :-) | 06:26 |
| fureddo | Yeah, the tomotko guy. | 06:26 |
| johnx | do you have scratchbox? | 06:26 |
| fureddo | Yes | 06:26 |
| johnx | the f{5-8} keys should work there I think | 06:27 |
| fureddo | *trying | 06:27 |
| johnx | zoom in/out are usually used to change font size or in apps that have a concept of zoom (maps, web browsers) | 06:27 |
| johnx | though people get "creative" all the time :) | 06:28 |
| fureddo | Ok, function keys don't seem to change anything. | 06:30 |
| johnx | do they in other apps? | 06:30 |
| johnx | they are left for the app to handle, not the wm | 06:30 |
| fureddo | No, actually, function keys work. | 06:31 |
| fureddo | f6 toggles fullscreen. | 06:32 |
| fureddo | f4 invokes menu. | 06:32 |
| fureddo | f7/f8 -> no effect | 06:32 |
| fureddo | Same for f5 | 06:32 |
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| johnx | then f7/f8 aren't mapped in that application | 06:32 |
| johnx | forget what f5 does ... | 06:32 |
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| johnx | though, that little task switcher in the bottom left corner of the screen can be brought up with the "home" key on the n800 or the "switch" key on the n810 | 06:33 |
| spencer_ | have question on how to compile libxml in scratchbox... | 06:34 |
| johnx | so, losing a window in fullscreen mode isn't all that big of a deal I think | 06:34 |
| fureddo | I will try if it works in scratchy. | 06:34 |
| johnx | fureddo, but I don't know what keycode you'd need to test it in sb | 06:35 |
| johnx | spencer_, we need a little more detail than that :) | 06:35 |
| fureddo | johnx, Indeed, home key does nothing. | 06:35 |
| johnx | right, on the n800 it has a picture of a "house" | 06:35 |
| johnx | it's probably not sending "Home" | 06:36 |
| spencer_ | johnx: i have libxml2 libxml2-dev and libxml2-dbg up to date according to the scratchbox.. but it's still not linking properly when i compile.. giving me /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-ar: -lxml2: No such file or directory error | 06:36 |
| johnx | libxml2 is already provided by nokia, so your install might be conflicting somehow | 06:37 |
| spencer_ | johnx: ok.. how can i tell? pardon me.. really n00b at this... | 06:37 |
| johnx | spencer_, I have no idea :) | 06:38 |
| spencer_ | :( | 06:38 |
| johnx | is there a reason you can't use Nokia's version of libxml2? | 06:38 |
| fureddo | johnx, Well, I will use fullscreen and hope no user will know to minimize a fullscreen window. That will solve my problem for now. | 06:39 |
| spencer_ | absolutely no reason.. just trying to get a project started. and found out i'm getting this error.. i can provide the configure.ac and Makefile.am if you want. | 06:39 |
| johnx | fureddo, I still think they'll be able to trigger the side "app switch" menu just fine, but I have no idea how to use it from scratchbox... | 06:39 |
| spencer_ | maybe it's just a stupidity in my automake/autoconf environment.. | 06:40 |
| johnx | or a scratchbox stupidity... | 06:40 |
| johnx | sorry, I think I misread your comment earlier. for some reason I thought you had tried to install your own version of libxml2 in sb | 06:41 |
| fureddo | johnx, It's no big deal. Time for lunch! Have a nice day. | 06:42 |
| spencer_ | nope.. i used the apt-get install libxml2 in scratchbox. | 06:42 |
| johnx | fureddo, you too :) | 06:42 |
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| johnx | spencer_, can you run apt-cache policy libxml2? | 06:42 |
| johnx | (in sb) | 06:42 |
| spencer_ | johnx: libxml2: | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | Installed: 2.6.32.dfsg-5maemo1 | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | Candidate: 2.6.32.dfsg-5maemo1 | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | Version table: | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | *** 2.6.32.dfsg-5maemo1 0 | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | 2.6.27.dfsg-1osso4 0 | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | 500 http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free Packages | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | i think that's the problem there.. | 06:45 |
| spencer_ | but why did i get the maemo5 package is beyond me.. :( | 06:46 |
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| johnx | higher version number | 06:46 |
| johnx | but ... that's not the maemo5 version, just FYI | 06:46 |
| spencer_ | ok.. that scares me for e a sec. | 06:47 |
| johnx | really easy to downgrade though: apt-get install libxml2=2.6.27.dfsg-1osso4 | 06:47 |
| spencer_ | done.. let me reload sb and try to rerun my conf/make. | 06:48 |
| spencer_ | johnx: still same issue.. but the autoconf said libxml2 is OK | 06:51 |
| johnx | then I have no idea :( | 06:52 |
| johnx | I guess you could find something else that needs libxml2 and see if it builds | 06:52 |
| johnx | if it doesn't: something's messed up with your sb install now | 06:52 |
| johnx | if it does: something is different with the autoconf/autotools setups | 06:53 |
| johnx | and by "something else" i mean some well known app available from extras | 06:53 |
| spencer_ | well, did another test.. just tried to move the XML2_CFLAGS and XML2_LIBS towards the end of the flags in the Makefile.in and now the hildon's flags are getting errored out.. i think it's the ar having issue connecting to all my CFLAGS and LIBs. | 06:58 |
| johnx | my one piece of advice is to remember to borrow heavily from other peoples' build scripts / source packages | 06:59 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: Are you around? | 07:02 |
| spencer_ | johnx, thanks for the advice.. i think my build script is just totally screwed up. i just tried to compile maemopad and compare the make output, mine wasn't even using gcc for whatever reason :P | 07:04 |
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| Khertan | HI everyone ! | 07:14 |
| luke-jr | o hai thar | 07:15 |
| Khertan | There is now a real unlimitted phone voice and call mobile plan available now in France !!!! SFR !!!! 199€ by month .... ouch ... | 07:15 |
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| AStorm | hehe | 07:16 |
| RST38h | Heya AStorm | 07:16 |
| AStorm | that sox VHQ resampler is like, 2x slower than linear | 07:16 |
| AStorm | (on Turion X2 Ultra, mind you, have to test on ARM) | 07:16 |
| AStorm | do we have sox 14.2.0 on Maemo? | 07:17 |
| johnx | didn't you know? slower = better quality! | 07:17 |
| AStorm | johnx: ... yeah, but libsamplerate is worse (at best sinc) | 07:18 |
| AStorm | and order of magnitude slower | 07:18 |
| AStorm | http://src.infinitewave.ca for one case. | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | sox only recently was legal to distribute | 07:18 |
| AStorm | luke-jr: hmmh? | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | within the past month | 07:18 |
| AStorm | sox resampler is LGPL. | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | AStorm: not sox as a whole | 07:18 |
| AStorm | yes, correct | 07:18 |
| luke-jr | the sox tarball contained copyrighted and not licensed for distribution code | 07:19 |
| AStorm | it had some plugin that was... let's say of unknown copyright status | 07:19 |
| AStorm | for ABX people out there, I've resampled the file twice with each of the resamplers. | 07:19 |
| luke-jr | hm, I suppose binary distros could just cut that out for their pkg | 07:19 |
| johnx | so you're making a fuss about something that, as of now, is legal to distribute? | 07:19 |
| AStorm | to 44100 -> 8000 -> 44100 | 07:19 |
| luke-jr | johnx: no, just throwing out info in case there wasn't a sox pkg | 07:20 |
| AStorm | and omploaded flacs | 07:20 |
| AStorm | http://omploader.org/vMmQzdg | 07:20 |
| AStorm | http://omploader.org/vMmQzdw | 07:20 |
| AStorm | http://omploader.org/vMmQzeA | 07:20 |
| AStorm | first is original. | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | either way, there should be no legal problems w/ sox distrib now | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | which makes me happy cuz I find it useful :) | 07:21 |
| AStorm | luke-jr: at worst, they'd just axe the plugin | 07:21 |
| AStorm | :) | 07:21 |
| luke-jr | AStorm: yeah, I forgot binary distros could do that :) | 07:22 |
| luke-jr | I use Gentoo, remember ;P | 07:22 |
| AStorm | Gentoo would just set the licence. | 07:22 |
| luke-jr | Gentoo mirrors the upstream sources usually | 07:22 |
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| AStorm | btw, libsamplerate produced audible artifacts on the sample.. heh | 07:23 |
| AStorm | I guess it's a killer for it | 07:23 |
| AStorm | (and it's just some midi, dammit!) | 07:23 |
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| AStorm | kudos for people who recognize the track | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | ... | 07:23 |
| luke-jr | why are you resampling a midi? | 07:23 |
| AStorm | to test the resampler | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | I would think midis are sample-less | 07:24 |
| AStorm | obvious is obvious | 07:24 |
| AStorm | no, it's a rendering of midi | 07:24 |
| AStorm | using timidity++ | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | oh :p | 07:24 |
| luke-jr | I do wonder how all those older cell phones supported MIDI ring tones | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | timidity takes quite a bit of disk space... | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | for the sounds | 07:25 |
| AStorm | in hardware. | 07:25 |
| AStorm | like the cards of old, they had hardcoded wavetable | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | hardware generation of all the sounds? | 07:25 |
| AStorm | sure yes | 07:25 |
| AStorm | it's cheap. | 07:25 |
| luke-jr | hum | 07:25 |
| RST38h | luke-jr: OPL-class FM synthesis chip will do this for you cheaply | 07:25 |
| * luke-jr wonders why timidity can't do the same in software | 07:25 | |
| AStorm | RST38h: FM is worse ;p | 07:26 |
| AStorm | luke-jr: huhwhatlol | 07:26 |
| RST38h | timidity renders audio in software | 07:26 |
| AStorm | timidity DOES that in software | 07:26 |
| RST38h | but OPL chips do it with a few oscillators | 07:26 |
| luke-jr | RST38h: yeah, but doesn't it have a collection of audio files? | 07:26 |
| RST38h | No | 07:26 |
| AStorm | exactly that. you give it samples, it renders the midi | 07:26 |
| RST38h | Just needs a MIDI score | 07:26 |
| luke-jr | what are the "sets" then? | 07:26 |
| RST38h | Wait | 07:26 |
| AStorm | soundfonts or sets of samples | 07:26 |
| RST38h | I see the problem | 07:26 |
| luke-jr | eawpatches or whatever | 07:26 |
| AStorm | the wavetable in other words. | 07:26 |
| RST38h | MIDI assumes that you not only have the score but also have a bank of musical instruments to play it | 07:27 |
| AStorm | RST38h: and yes, any phone worth the money used wavetable and not OPL | 07:27 |
| RST38h | FM chips achieve these instruments by connecting a few oscillators in the right order | 07:27 |
| AStorm | it sounds 100x better and is not more expensive. | 07:27 |
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| AStorm | even if you use tiny samples. | 07:27 |
| * johnx had a sound card with fm synthesis... | 07:27 | |
| RST38h | Timidity lacks those oscillators, so it uses waveform samples for the instruments | 07:27 |
| AStorm | johnx: me too, OPL3 | 07:27 |
| luke-jr | eawpatches is 38 MB... the hardware has 38 MB ROMs with the data? | 07:27 |
| AStorm | luke-jr: sure no | 07:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: ANY sound card that included Adlib compatible chips had FM synthesis | 07:28 |
| AStorm | eawpatches is fairly high quality | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | oscillators can't be emulated? | 07:28 |
| johnx | ES1868 ISA PNP, the most god awful sound card to get working in linux | 07:28 |
| AStorm | for cellphone, you can get away with 8-bit and limited range | 07:28 |
| AStorm | luke-jr: they can, but it's pointless | 07:28 |
| AStorm | it's worse. | 07:28 |
| AStorm | unless of course the point of the excercise is the emulation | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | i c | 07:28 |
| AStorm | like, say, in dosbox | 07:28 |
| AStorm | which has proper OPL2 and OPL3 implementation in software | 07:29 |
| * luke-jr personally thinks his cell phone MIDI sounds better than eawpatches, but whatever | 07:29 | |
| RST38h | There is no "proper" OPL implementation in software :) | 07:29 |
| RST38h | You always miss corner cases ;) | 07:29 |
| AStorm | RST38h: blah blah, yes, it's emulated, no it's perfect. | 07:29 |
| AStorm | it's bit-compatible and all the corner cases have been (hopefully) caught | 07:29 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 07:30 |
| RST38h | maybe. | 07:30 |
| * luke-jr wonders why SimCity Network Edition has no modern/free equivalent | 07:30 | |
| AStorm | luke-jr: like Simcity 2000? | 07:30 |
| AStorm | ;p | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | AStorm: IIRC, that was notably different from NE | 07:30 |
| AStorm | heh. | 07:30 |
| AStorm | I guess NE didn't sell. | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | in fact, there was a SC2k NE too... | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | probably didn't I imagine | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | it was slow as heck | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | but the concept was pretty fun | 07:31 |
| AStorm | heh, btw, even something as cheap as nokia 3310 has wavetable midi | 07:34 |
| AStorm | albeit only a few instruments | 07:34 |
| AStorm | (but good quality) | 07:34 |
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| AStorm | oh right, of note is the fact that you need to resample (with pitch shifting) in wavetable synthesis | 08:21 |
| AStorm | (unless you have samples recorded for every possible pitch, which is unlikely) | 08:21 |
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| Stskeeps | fun challenges: finding settings in a language you don't understand for a telephone provider so you can tether your tablet.. | 09:03 |
| Stskeeps | ah, - the settings by default in n810 was broken | 09:07 |
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| Stskeeps | sometimes i wish my desktop computer was a touchscreen and i ran maemo5 on it. | 09:20 |
| chx | its hard enough to keep a 4" screen clean | 09:24 |
| chx | cleaning a 24" of fingerprints is .... ouch. | 09:24 |
| Stskeeps | point taken | 09:24 |
| AStorm | I sometimes wish I had a touchscreen to replace a touchpad | 09:26 |
| AStorm | (in addition, not instead, of the screen) | 09:26 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: buy a T400s touch | 09:27 |
| Corsac | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/15/lenovo-t400s-touch-hands-on-and-impressions/ | 09:27 |
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| AStorm | and you could still use it as a touchpad in a pinch or to save power | 09:30 |
| chx | I have a T400s. | 09:30 |
| chx | I for my life can't imagine it being a touchscreen | 09:30 |
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| chx | yay trackpoint :) | 09:30 |
| AStorm | trackpoint = weak | 09:31 |
| AStorm | touchscreen = good | 09:31 |
| AStorm | even touchpad with correct extra software is ok | 09:31 |
| AStorm | (special locking modes) | 09:31 |
| AStorm | trackpoint can't really reach that kind of usability | 09:32 |
| AStorm | though it's fun for games | 09:32 |
| johnx | trackpoint is awesome *and* keeps your fingers on the home row | 09:34 |
| johnx | but I think what this means is that it comes down to preference | 09:34 |
| AStorm | touchpad in locking mode does too, haha | 09:34 |
| AStorm | you can operate it with thumbs | 09:34 |
| johnx | maybe you can... | 09:34 |
| AStorm | not maybe. I do. | 09:34 |
| johnx | I've never had any luck doing that accurately or quickly | 09:35 |
| AStorm | really needs software support though, it's not a precise way to use it | 09:35 |
| AStorm | not with normal drivers and software | 09:35 |
| AStorm | there it's impossible | 09:35 |
| johnx | luckily there's lots of choices and thus we don't have to agree :) | 09:35 |
| AStorm | the trick is that you need software support for approximate hits | 09:35 |
| AStorm | or... just large UI ;P | 09:35 |
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| AStorm | you use it then like a menu picker | 09:36 |
| AStorm | scroll somewhere to pick an option/window/whatever | 09:36 |
| AStorm | kind of like sloppy focus with resistance | 09:37 |
| johnx | yeah, there's a lot of "it works great as long as the software is designed for it." | 09:37 |
| AStorm | it doesn't really need a huge redesign | 09:37 |
| AStorm | some toolkit support, yes | 09:37 |
| johnx | but there's nothing I can use today? | 09:37 |
| AStorm | (so that the driver knows where the menu/button is for resistance to work) | 09:38 |
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| AStorm | much less than hildon, for example. | 09:39 |
| johnx | yup. sounds like I'll just stick to trackpoint... | 09:40 |
| AStorm | whatever you wish | 09:40 |
| AStorm | I prefer keys to trackpoint anyway | 09:40 |
| AStorm | (since the apps I use have proper key bindings) | 09:40 |
| AStorm | and drawing with either touchpad or trackpoint is not really possible | 09:41 |
| johnx | </religious pointer debate> | 09:41 |
| AStorm | so no loss | 09:41 |
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| L0cMini9 | re | 09:46 |
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| Macer | blah | 11:48 |
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| kralllllll | Oii | 11:50 |
| kralllllll | Alguem do brasil? | 11:51 |
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| _berto_ | kralllllll: acho que sim, mas este canal é em inglês | 11:52 |
| kralllllll | E vi isso | 11:53 |
| kralllllll | Amigo vc tem maemo em que aparelho | 11:53 |
| _berto_ | english only, sorry :) | 11:54 |
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| Lorthirk | hi guys | 12:45 |
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| vpol | hi all. is there ability to upgrade python in scratchbox up to 2.5? | 12:58 |
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| lcuk2 | vpol, not sure, but if you do that, how do you then get users on the tablet itself to update | 13:01 |
| lcuk2 | or does the tablet have 2.5 too? | 13:01 |
| javispedro | vpol: yes, but its a bit hard, usually people just use unredirect the sbox python and use a native one | 13:01 |
| lcuk2 | hey javispedro \o | 13:01 |
| javispedro | hi lcuk :) | 13:01 |
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| lcuk2 | hows tricks | 13:01 |
| javispedro | fine but busy :D | 13:02 |
| vpol | lcuk2: mm.. i've heared that it have 2.5 | 13:03 |
| * lcuk2 is v busy also | 13:03 | |
| lcuk2 | vpol, then why does your scratchbox SDK install not have it... | 13:03 |
| vpol | that's the question :) | 13:03 |
| javispedro | lcuk2: by default sbox uses a very old but i386 one. | 13:04 |
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| javispedro | vpol: it can be done, I did it, following the sbox devkit howto. but then I'd suggest to just use SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=... | 13:04 |
| lcuk2 | javispedro, ahhh | 13:07 |
| * lcuk2 defers to those that know lol | 13:07 | |
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| javispedro | it's best not to know those things, really :D | 13:07 |
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| * crashanddie shrugs | 13:11 | |
| * crashanddie discovers one of the core java files of one of our products | 13:11 | |
| crashanddie | 5834 lines | 13:11 |
| crashanddie | 172KB | 13:11 |
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| * javispedro is not impressed | 13:13 | |
| javispedro | (but shares the grief :) ) | 13:13 |
| lcuk2 | crashanddie, if you are only discovering it today, i have to ask - where was it hiding | 13:15 |
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| pancake | where are the git/svn/hg repos of maemo5? | 13:25 |
| timeless_mbp | hidden :) | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | i think there are some near maemo.gitorious | 13:26 |
| pancake | i would like to make a patch for libhildon to optionally drop the libcanberra dependency | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | http://gitorious.org/maemo-af | 13:27 |
| timeless_mbp | claims to be something like maemo | 13:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | pancake: you're currently working from the sdk sources? | 13:28 |
| pancake | uh hildon is not there | 13:28 |
| pancake | timeless_mbp: I got the tarballs from repository.maemo.org | 13:28 |
| * timeless_mbp would just as soon file a bug in bugs maemo w/ a diff against the sdk sources and a link to the source tarball | 13:28 | |
| timeless_mbp | if the people who made the sdk are incapable of figuring out how it relates to the internal versioning system, then that's their problem, not yours | 13:28 |
| timeless_mbp | https://git.maemo.org/ | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | has a hildon in it | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | https://git.maemo.org/?p=hildon;a=summary | 13:29 |
| pancake | timeless_mbp: cool :) | 13:29 |
| * timeless_mbp loves the repository descriptions | 13:30 | |
| timeless_mbp | "Unnamed repository; edit this..." | 13:30 |
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| javispedro | yeah, that ought to be fixed some day... | 13:31 |
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| pancake | uhm where's the git uri for git.maemo.org ? | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 13:32 |
| crashanddie | lcuk2: I don't usually look at the code, not a programmer, remember:P | 13:32 |
| pancake | ah /projects | 13:32 |
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| Mikho | How can I find out which version of fremantle I have in my scratchbox? | 13:34 |
| timeless_mbp | take notes? :) | 13:34 |
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| Mikho | there must be some way to find out which release it is, but can't google well enough to find out | 13:36 |
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| suihkulokki | milos_: why do you need the version of the whole platform? check the versions of the components you care about | 13:40 |
| Mikho | because it's been ages since I last tried maemo5, and would like to find out whether I need to spend more ages to reinstall it, or if simple apt-get upgrade is enough | 13:41 |
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| Mikho | oh, I need to reinstall even if it's the first beta... | 13:43 |
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| Stskeeps | murrayc: so far so good regarding the finger keyboards :), still waiting for the newer SDK - but thanks for the work and discovery in this area | 13:51 |
| wazd | heya maemo | 13:53 |
| murrayc | Stskeeps: Cheers. I had given up hope. | 13:54 |
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| femorandeira | hi, Stskeeps: jrocha and I wrote the two new virtual keyboards in hildon-input-method-plugins-example | 13:56 |
| femorandeira | we are open to suggestions for other kinds of plugins | 13:56 |
| femorandeira | i.e. keyboard assistants | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | femorandeira: thanks to you too :) we will integrate them in Mer and will definately give feedback based on that | 13:56 |
| jrocha | Stskeeps, nice! | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | johnx's been hacking at getting it going so | 13:57 |
| femorandeira | great! they are still unfinished but they should give you an idea for writing cooler ones ;-) | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:58 |
| jrocha | Stskeeps, we released those two keyboards so people could take them as examples and learn from them | 13:58 |
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| Stskeeps | definately needed too | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | we've tried to get fremantle HIM to act correctly for 6-8 months or so :) | 13:58 |
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| zerojay | javispedro: Your SNES emulator.. do you have it in Maemo 5 extras/extras-devel yet? | 14:08 |
| javispedro | zerojay: extras-devel, with a ugly GUI so far. | 14:08 |
| zerojay | javispedro: Thanks. | 14:08 |
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| femorandeira | Stskeeps: most/all the UI part of the HIM has been removed in Fremantle, so on one hand that means that portability shouldn't be hard, and on the other that the old plugins won't work well :-/ | 14:14 |
| femorandeira | I wonder if one could develop a plugin to act as a container of other plugins, like the HIM UI in Diablo did | 14:15 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/09/16/archos_phone/ <- interesting | 14:16 |
| javispedro | yay. was Nokia late to the party? | 14:17 |
| zerojay | Nokia started the party. | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | Archos? Android phone will be available in early 2010. | 14:17 |
| javispedro | must admit it did. seems the current "phone of the future" trend is a tablet-like one. | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Openmoko started the party. | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Badly | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | for phones yes, tablets no | 14:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | My fundamental problem with all these classes of device is they're too fragile. | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Do I want to be carrying something around that's $700 or so - if insurance won't cover many of the things that can go wrong with it. | 14:21 |
| kynde | Stskeeps: weren't you the one with a smartQ5? may I ask have you managed to flash the system via usb in some way (e.g. like the N810)? | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | a n810 can take a lot of beating | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | kynde: yeah, - no usb flashing but noone says it can't be implemented | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | it has two modes, boot from sd internal or sd external | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | everything after is uboot/qi/etc | 14:22 |
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| kynde | Stskeeps: how doesn boot from external work? I mean, does it take keypress (like the home-button in N810) or what? | 14:24 |
| kynde | Stskeeps: didn't get any manuasl and I haven't found anything but chinese documentation which is about as useful to me as tp. | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | kynde: hang on | 14:25 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: is the n900 fragile? | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: how would i know? :P | 14:25 |
| Corsac | well you seem to say that "all these devices" are | 14:26 |
| Corsac | so I wondered | 14:26 |
| Corsac | if you had some info from the happy few :p | 14:26 |
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| Stskeeps | Corsac: show me some context i said that :) | 14:26 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: the sentence about "all this class of devices" | 14:26 |
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| Corsac | Stskeeps: damn. | 14:26 |
| * Corsac hides | 14:27 | |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: not sure what you are talking about | 14:27 |
| kynde | Stskeeps: will do. no rush. if you have pointers or additional information that would be great. | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Expensive featurephones and tablets can often be fragile. I have no personal experience of the n900 | 14:27 |
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| Stskeeps | kynde: you should join #mer, a lot of q5/7 hackers there | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | kynde: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Hardware/SmartQ5 | 14:27 |
| kynde | Stskeeps: ack. now there, too. | 14:27 |
| * SpeedEvil thinks all phones should be as robust as the 3310. | 14:28 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Where if you sit on it, you move because it's uncomfortable, not because you're sure you've just broken it. | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | kynde: even though it seems like Mer has a bit bad reputation in SmartQ world we seemingily kill internal SD cards. always fun | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | +since | 14:28 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: my SE is a bit like that | 14:29 |
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| Corsac | RAH | 14:29 |
| Corsac | SpeedEvil: my SE is a bit like that | 14:29 |
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| Corsac | (sorry) | 14:29 |
| kirma | is there "standard"/documented/known API for reading more than minimally detailed power and battery statistics on Maemo 5? that'd be battery charge, voltage, current load in amperes/watts, and such. | 14:29 |
| kirma | obviously the software interface is there, if I've heard right | 14:30 |
| kynde | Stskeeps: so it's possible to say, reflash the internal flash via booting from the external. looks promising. cheers. | 14:30 |
| kirma | on N900 of course... | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | kynde: sure, unless you killed the internal flash, :P other interesting forums is smartqmid.com and ill-logix.com | 14:30 |
| kynde | Stskeeps: cheers. I'll check them out and make further queries at #mer. | 14:31 |
| Razumihin | There's the onboard statistics program on N900 so i think you can get those out somehow, | 14:31 |
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| kirma | Razumihin: can you point to a more specific resource? (just knowing if it's definetly going to be, or *not* going to be public interface is helpful in contemplating things) | 14:34 |
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| Razumihin | Sorry but i can't, my knowledge is based on a live talk with a developer :/ | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | there'll be a energy profiler, or at least one exists | 14:36 |
| Razumihin | Yeah, i've played with it. | 14:36 |
| Razumihin | But is it going to be closed source, don't know. | 14:37 |
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| kirma | open source read-only interface would be so nice | 14:38 |
| kirma | or rather, "documented" | 14:38 |
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| farrell | Hello, I've just bought a n810, if I get root access and I crash the system how can I could to fix it? | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | farrell: you can always reflash | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | don't try to mess with /dev/mtdblock files directly as you might bust the basic bootloader | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | also, grab fanoush's bootmenu | 14:40 |
| kirma | Razumihin: supposedly the application won't be open source at least :I | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | kirma: what do you have in mind to do? | 14:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Any thoughts on why nokia.com.au doesn't have n900? | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | waiting for kangaroo edition to come out? | 14:42 |
| farrell | Stskeeps, when I do a reflash my device back to be original factory? | 14:42 |
| kirma | own "direct" power usage analysis, and potentially bringing this information to something like a custom screensaver/alerter | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | farrell: correct - you can also reflash certain bits only | 14:42 |
| kirma | plain battery level is of course a start, but something in the style of nokia energy profiler on S60, but with an API, would be really nice too. | 14:43 |
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| ccooke | SpeedEvil: they're finalising the driver for the accelerometer which corrects the problem of using it upside down (... sorry) | 14:44 |
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| lupine_85 | so I'm considering getting an N900 when they're released, and I was wondering how open the development is? e.g. symbian development is supposedly open, yet you have all those certifications and devicecaps hoops to jump through. Anyone have any comments? | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | very, very | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | you can hand-code in assembler if you want | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | You get root | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | it's an arm linux box | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | that's pretty much it. | 14:46 |
| lupine_85 | and whatever you code can be run on any other maemo machine without hoops? awesome :) | 14:46 |
| ccooke | lupine_85: possible porting problems, but nothing huge | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not java | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | So yes, you may need to recompile or link | 14:47 |
| lupine_85 | mm, that's all fine :) | 14:47 |
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| lupine_85 | so the apps have normal linux-style access to the hardware as well? I'm assuming there'll be binary blobs scattered around to control some of the hardware - but that's not really a problem | 14:49 |
| lupine_85 | at least the hardware'll run, like a hacked-up HTC phone :D | 14:49 |
| lupine_85 | unlike* | 14:49 |
| ccooke | lupine_85: put it this way... Most of the Debian ARM repo would require a recompilation at most. And there's a debian chroot if you can't be bothered with that. | 14:49 |
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| lupine_85 | I think I know what my xmas present will be :D | 14:49 |
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| ccooke | package management is apt-get, but there's enough drift in library versions to require a separate repository | 14:50 |
| lupine_85 | no worries | 14:50 |
| ccooke | Hmm. Has anyone ever set up a debian-style build-farm for maemo? | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | ccooke: autobuilder? :P | 14:51 |
| lupine_85 | building on-device is presumably a pain :D | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | lupine_85: binary blobs are probably telephony, battery management and the typical wifi firmwares and DSP | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Not really. | 14:51 |
| lupine_85 | in terms of speed | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not a slow system. | 14:51 |
| ccooke | Stskeeps: I'm thinking "recompilation of most of Debian main" | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not going to be as fast as your desktop. | 14:51 |
| lupine_85 | last I checked 600MHz ARM was pretty slow for compiling | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | But compiling an individual app shouldn't be a problem unless it's huge | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | ccooke: ah | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | ccooke: MUD? | 14:52 |
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| Stskeeps | maybe | 14:52 |
| lupine_85 | certainly slower than an atom, and they take a good hour or two for a kernel | 14:52 |
| javispedro | lupine_85: people are actually compiling on device with the n8x0 (400mhz arm11) | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | lupine_85: Not on my planet | 14:52 |
| ccooke | Stskeeps: expn MUD? | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC kernel took well under 20 mins on my eeepc 900A | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/ , ccooke | 14:53 |
| ccooke | Stskeeps: ah, thanks | 14:53 |
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| lupine_85 | speaking of which... what's the bootloader/kernel stuff like? not a great deal of point to booting a custom kernel, I'm sure (since it'll be missing said binary blobs), but having control over it would be good too | 14:54 |
| ccooke | Stskeeps: looks to not be operational yet. Would it need help from a bored sysadmin from time to time? | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | ccooke: prod Jaffa i guess | 14:54 |
| ccooke | will do. | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | lupine_85: on a N8x0 we have NOLO and X-Loader. those are closed source and basically get the device to the point it loads a kernel from internal flash | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | lupine_85: kernel source is fully available and can be recompiled and toyed with | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | i doubt that has changed for rx-51 | 14:56 |
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| lupine_85 | sounds good :) | 14:56 |
| lupine_85 | maybe 2010 will be the year of linux on the mobile phone | 14:57 |
| lupine_85 | (I know, 2009 was too. even if the phones were crap :D) | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | i certainly want a n900 | 14:57 |
| lupine_85 | that keyboard makes me want it | 14:57 |
| thresh | 2010 will be the year of linux on desktop | 14:58 |
| ccooke | Every now and then I have to stop and think just how much Unix has prospered in the last fifteen years :-) | 14:58 |
| thresh | linux will finally rule the world of desktop machines! | 14:58 |
| lupine_85 | "yay" :D | 14:58 |
| ccooke | (not just linux, of course) | 14:58 |
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| Shapeshifter | the booklet 3g looks nice | 15:01 |
| Shapeshifter | if it's easily possible to make phone calls with it, I'll get that instead of an n900 | 15:01 |
| Shapeshifter | and put linux on it >.> | 15:02 |
| ccooke | Shapeshifter: drivers for that will be "fun" to get hold of | 15:02 |
| AStorm | heh... damned shall be nokia for using a plug that is incompatible with iPhone's in ground connection | 15:03 |
| AStorm | just switched mic with gnd :P | 15:03 |
| Shapeshifter | ccooke: I get the feeling that the components are pretty generic | 15:03 |
| Shapeshifter | apart from the 3g adaptor. | 15:03 |
| AStorm | iphone uses a very interesting way of signalling "mic connected" that is "receive" | 15:08 |
| AStorm | connects a 1 Ohm resistor | 15:08 |
| AStorm | to the ground | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: isn't it more like that iphone is doing something non-standard? :P | 15:08 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: no, they are actually the standard ;p | 15:08 |
| AStorm | but yes, their plug is... weirder than usual | 15:09 |
| AStorm | it uses the sleeve for mic data | 15:09 |
| AStorm | while normally it's used for GND | 15:09 |
| * lupine_85 found htc's extusb plug interesting | 15:10 | |
| AStorm | it'd be trivial to add such a module to Nokia devices. | 15:10 |
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| AStorm | (but not for me - taking apart such small embedded devices is hard, much less adding a switch - best would be autosense digital) | 15:12 |
| AStorm | (simple, since it's the ground that matters - sensing lack of ground is very easy) | 15:13 |
| andre__ | Khertan, seen http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/pygtkeditor/2.4.2-1/ ? | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | wb andre__ | 15:15 |
| andre__ | heja | 15:15 |
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| Shapeshifter | mhh. you know what *I* would buy immediately: A 3G-enabled netbook which integrates a rather simple mobilephone which plugs in on the side. The mobile phone would carry the 3g chip and some storage for contacts and such, and you can do calls with it and all that. Then you plug it into the lap top (similar to a batter pack, in a way that it perfectly integrates into the lap top) and then the netbook makes use of the chip, synchronizes ... | 15:16 |
| Shapeshifter | ... automatically, and can be used as a 3G netbook. | 15:16 |
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| andre__ | gnarf. whoever allows a RESOLVED LATER "resolution" in a bugzilla installation should be punished, or should also provide a RESOLVED NOTYETRESOLVED resolution | 15:18 |
| lcuk2 | Shapeshifter, does it come preinstalled with a pony? | 15:18 |
| Shapeshifter | lol | 15:18 |
| lupine_85 | Shapeshifter, why not buy a netbook with integrated 3G modem, then just add a USB head/handset? | 15:18 |
| Shapeshifter | no, only a pack of squirrels. | 15:18 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: FIXEDINHARMATTAN? | 15:18 |
| javispedro | Shapeshifter: actually, I saw some one of those. the phone looked awful though. | 15:18 |
| lcuk2 | lupine_85, why use a usb headset | 15:18 |
| Shapeshifter | lupine_85: because the netbook would need to be running just to make a phone call | 15:18 |
| X-Fade | Hold your netboook up to you ear ;) | 15:18 |
| lcuk2 | sidetalkin is makin a comeback | 15:18 |
| lupine_85 | mm, true enough | 15:18 |
| lupine_85 | heh. clone the sim card, choose your favourite phone :D | 15:19 |
| Shapeshifter | X-Fade: I thought of that. it would look really silly but I wouldn't care | 15:19 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, heh, nope. "resolved later" which means "take this off my radar and stats, i state that i take a look later but in fact i'm going to forget about it" | 15:19 |
| lupine_85 | I'm sure fun things happen if they're both on at the same time though | 15:19 |
| * RST38h moos | 15:19 | |
| Stskeeps | andre__: ah, memory hole resolution type | 15:19 |
| X-Fade | Shapeshifter: just buy a bt headset. | 15:19 |
| lcuk2 | you remember ghostbusters and the photon packs - crossing streams etc | 15:19 |
| Shapeshifter | lupine_85: why? the netbook would know the phone is missing. | 15:19 |
| Shapeshifter | X-Fade: as I said, the netbook would need to be running just to make a phone call | 15:19 |
| javispedro | lcuk2: yay universe-destroying phone! :D | 15:19 |
| Shapeshifter | or to choose a contact | 15:20 |
| X-Fade | Shapeshifter: Or a phone in your pocket over bt again ;) | 15:20 |
| lcuk2 | javispedro, thats the n900 itself. | 15:20 |
| RST38h | msg javispedro I am afraid you will have to magnify openttd x2 for the n900 :) | 15:20 |
| lcuk2 | just get an n900 and forget the laptop | 15:20 |
| RST38h | ah sorry | 15:20 |
| RST38h | yep | 15:20 |
| Shapeshifter | lcuk2: I imagine the n900 just to be a really wicked toy. but I doubt it can be used for coding or anything, while a netbook can. | 15:21 |
| lcuk2 | feck off | 15:21 |
| lcuk2 | i code on mine all the time | 15:21 |
| Shapeshifter | lcuk2: so, it's doable? | 15:21 |
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| lcuk2 | eminently | 15:21 |
| lcuk2 | apt-get install build-essential | 15:21 |
| Shapeshifter | lcuk2: punctuation? | 15:21 |
| Shapeshifter | isn't it a paint to get a { or so | 15:21 |
| lcuk2 | none, i failed english | 15:22 |
| lcuk2 | and they didnt have c courses back in my day | 15:22 |
| Shapeshifter | lcuk2: no, I mean when coding on it. | 15:22 |
| lupine_85 | bluetooth keyboard? | 15:22 |
| lcuk2 | oh that part i dunno lol, i just build stuff there | 15:22 |
| lcuk2 | and use apple bt | 15:22 |
| ccooke | Shapeshifter: depends on your language, too | 15:23 |
| lcuk2 | Shapeshifter, i prefer to work from desktop, in windows actually, use winscp to get at filesystem | 15:23 |
| lcuk2 | and all work isthe work is done on the tablet | 15:23 |
| lcuk2 | i dont have a home linux system | 15:23 |
| ccooke | Shapeshifter: ruby or python, for instance, will only use {}s for hashes... | 15:24 |
| * lupine_85 tries to imagine that | 15:24 | |
| ccooke | (in general) | 15:24 |
| lupine_85 | ccooke, Hash.new() ;)_ | 15:24 |
| ccooke | lupine_85: yeah, but the shortcuts get used a lot :-) | 15:24 |
| lupine_85 | indeedy. trying to write code on anything less than a full keyboard is a nightmare | 15:24 |
| lcuk2 | console has mechanism to add new virtual keys | 15:24 |
| lupine_85 | but there's no reason why you couldn't use a bluetooth keyboard :) | 15:24 |
| lcuk2 | like tab is there | 15:25 |
| ccooke | I've done a lot of work on the n810 using a bt keyboard. Very nice, it was. | 15:25 |
| mgedmin | use vim people, create mappings -- e.g. make ,( enter [ | 15:25 |
| * lupine_85 is looking forward to the first mobiles with projector chips | 15:25 | |
| ccooke | Until I destroyed the keyboard :-) | 15:25 |
| lupine_85 | then you need a bluetooth keyboard and a sheet of A4 paper, and you can do all your development using your phone | 15:25 |
| lcuk2 | mgedmin, if i ever get into console editing like that | 15:25 |
| mgedmin | not that I've done any programming on my n8x0 | 15:25 |
| * RST38h has problems using bt keyboard on 810 | 15:25 | |
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| lcuk2 | i am going to map the accelerometer to the quit combination | 15:25 |
| lcuk2 | when i shake it out of frustration it will close :) | 15:25 |
| ccooke | RST38h: really? how so? | 15:25 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: ping? | 15:26 |
| RST38h | ccooke: it lags badly | 15:26 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, lllllllllllllllllllllllllag? | 15:26 |
| RST38h | yeeeeep | 15:26 |
| ccooke | huh. Never saw that. | 15:26 |
| Shapeshifter | ccooke: actually, dicts as well. in python | 15:26 |
| lcuk2 | its the ccccccccccccccccccpu getting stuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk on something | 15:26 |
| ccooke | what keyboard, so I can avoid it when I replace my old one? :-) | 15:26 |
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| RST38h | ccooke: lucky one | 15:26 |
| Shapeshifter | ccooke: but I guess I'll get a n900 anyway. | 15:26 |
| Shapeshifter | :| | 15:26 |
| RST38h | ccooke: Apple BT kbd for me, many other makes for other people, inclluding usb keyboards | 15:26 |
| lupine_85 | now, if only the n900 were cheaper :D | 15:27 |
| suihkulokki | http://ps3computing.blogspot.com/2009/07/iphone-piracy-cold-hard-figures.html | 15:27 |
| lcuk2 | its not the kb thats struggling | 15:27 |
| lupine_85 | still, you have to pay for quality | 15:27 |
| lcuk2 | theres something lowlevel where the cpu gets lagged | 15:27 |
| ccooke | RST38h: probably an artefact of what I was doing, then. Well, I can take being lucky :-) | 15:27 |
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| mgedmin | still, the hardware keyboard never gets ssssssssssssssssssstuck autorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrepeating keys like bt keyboards do | 15:27 |
| RST38h | yeaaaaa rrrrightttt | 15:28 |
| mgedmin | I've had the same effect with x2x on desktop linux, controlling a different pc remotely | 15:28 |
| mgedmin | here I attribute that to network delays between 'key down' and 'key up' events making the server think I'm holding it down | 15:28 |
| lcuk2 | mgedmin, thhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhats a good point | 15:28 |
| mgedmin | maybe bt lllllllllllllag works in a similar way | 15:28 |
| RST38h | mgedmin; Yes, it takes a while to reach the green men's lunar base... | 15:29 |
| RST38h | Well, Fremantle has removed support for BT keyboards, so this problem is gone | 15:30 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, its a round trip remember | 15:30 |
| RST38h | Ain't you all feeling happy, punks? =) | 15:30 |
| lcuk2 | because of the positioning between device and keyboard, it must first travel to the moon, then return safely | 15:30 |
| javispedro | yay. Instead of Fixed In Harmattan, "Removed in Harmattan" | 15:30 |
| javispedro | say goodbye to all libhildon bugs :) | 15:31 |
| ccooke | RST38h: ... no BT keyboard? huh? | 15:31 |
| ccooke | damnit. | 15:31 |
| mgedmin | well, if it doesn't work, why not remove it? | 15:31 |
| mgedmin | having a broken feature just irritates users | 15:31 |
| mgedmin | I'm sure there'll be 3rd party packages | 15:31 |
| RST38h | ccooke: they say we can add HD support ourselves | 15:32 |
| RST38h | Should not be difficult | 15:32 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: yeah. Remember, this is the first time I've heard it was 'broken' :-) | 15:32 |
| mgedmin | HD or HID? | 15:32 |
| RST38h | HID | 15:32 |
| RST38h | as in humain interface device | 15:32 |
| ccooke | RST38h: indeed, not. The capabilities already exist. | 15:32 |
| RST38h | Shit, I am lousy even on this laptop keyboard | 15:32 |
| AStorm | Shapeshifter: your miracle machine is called a cellphone with any laptop | 15:34 |
| AStorm | ;p | 15:34 |
| Shapeshifter | AStorm: yeah... | 15:34 |
| AStorm | the only tricky part is accessing the contacts | 15:35 |
| AStorm | but not too tricky with many phones | 15:35 |
| AStorm | (which use files for storage of this stuff) | 15:35 |
| RST38h | http://www.google.com/m/gp <=== anyone can tell me what made them shrink all links from this page to 320x240 size??? | 15:35 |
| AStorm | e.g. mine has 2 modes - a modem or USB dsik | 15:35 |
| AStorm | *disk | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: iphony? | 15:36 |
| javispedro | damn iphone and their 320 resolution | 15:36 |
| AStorm | nope | 15:36 |
| AStorm | actually, many phones have that res | 15:36 |
| AStorm | or close | 15:36 |
| javispedro | so now, "mobile version", instead of meaning "plain html, no frills version" means "320 full of shit safari css & js version" | 15:37 |
| RST38h | Sts: but why, WHY? | 15:38 |
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| lupine_85 | my current phone has 320x240 resolution. it's awful :( | 15:38 |
| RST38h | btw, gentlemen, whoever ha not discovered it yet: http://searchengineland.com/see-googles-iphone-made-sites-on-your-browser-15494 | 15:38 |
| RST38h | try 'em in your microb | 15:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h: at least gmail iphone sucks, unless you use portrait mode. | 15:39 |
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| RST38h | javis: reader is very nice, so are the docs | 15:40 |
| RST38h | gmail sucks because it also shrinks the damn screen | 15:40 |
| RST38h | igoogle is also very decent | 15:40 |
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| RST38h | Canonical engineers prepare the new background picture for Ubuntu desktop: http://de.fishki.net/picsw/092009/16/pics/photopodborka_001.jpg | 15:45 |
| mgedmin | Elitist Elephant is about 11 years away | 15:47 |
| mgedmin | they're early | 15:47 |
| mgedmin | it'll take a while to cycle through the rest of the alphabet | 15:47 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: they have been using a piece of elephant's butt for the desktop background for years now | 15:47 |
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| * RST38h uses it on his n810 in fact =) | 15:48 | |
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| MaceN8x0 | hello | 15:58 |
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| crashanddie | oh yeah baby... private static final String[] HEX_STRING_VALUES = {"0", "1", "2", "3", "4", "5", "6", "7", "8", "9", "10", "A", "B", "C", "D", "E", "F"}; | 16:00 |
| RST38h | That is a Java programmer for you. | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 16:01 |
| aol | :D | 16:02 |
| RST38h | (and yes, it gets much worse than that) | 16:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | java | 16:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | pfft | 16:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | what a fluke that turned out to be | 16:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | "use anything on anything" | 16:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | whatever | 16:03 |
| thresh | wait, 10 ?! | 16:03 |
| thresh | why the hell is 10 there?! | 16:04 |
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| aol | write once test everywhere | 16:04 |
| nomis | thresh: thanks, I managed to miss that gem :) | 16:04 |
| aol | nice to do J2ME programs for mobile phones, you have to test on every model where as native software run much wider selection | 16:04 |
| thresh | that's another WTF in that string, yeah | 16:04 |
| aol | "10" is nice touch IMO | 16:05 |
| nomis | (in fact having a LUT for the hex digits is something I did at some point as well) | 16:05 |
| nomis | insofar not that much WTF for the rest. | 16:05 |
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| RST38h | nomis: const char *Hex = "0123456789ABCDEF"; | 16:06 |
| RST38h | that is how it is done. | 16:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | native software runs on a wider selection | 16:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 16:06 |
| nomis | right :) | 16:06 |
| RST38h | Macer: "If Java is the answer, then what the hell was the question?!?" | 16:07 |
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| nomis | and to chip in a bit for Java: it *is* better than C++. Not that that means very much... :) | 16:07 |
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| RST38h | Better in what aspect? | 16:09 |
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| MaceN8x0 | wasnt c++ supposed to be universal also? | 16:10 |
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| RST38h | C++ is just C with functions inside structs | 16:10 |
| nomis | RST38h: plus a lot of ambiguities added. | 16:11 |
| RST38h | It is not universal in theory, but has become pretty universal in practice | 16:11 |
| RST38h | nomis: Yes, but you can avoid these by not using parts of C++ standard | 16:11 |
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| MaceN8x0 | RST38h, seems like the opposite direction of java | 16:11 |
| RST38h | Macer: Java came AFTER C++ | 16:11 |
| nomis | RST38h: right. Everybody restricts himself to a subset of C++. The trouble is, that this is specific to the programmer. | 16:12 |
| RST38h | Macer: Java was a pet project by some Sun engineer who said he was going to "fix" all the C++ problems | 16:12 |
| RST38h | nomis: Not much | 16:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 16:12 |
| RST38h | nomis: We do have some quarrels about this at work, but very mild ones | 16:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | by turning it into c++ in reverse? | 16:12 |
| nomis | also you have niceties in the language like "AA BB(CC);" in the top level of a C file being quite ambiguous. | 16:12 |
| RST38h | Macer: No, by making an interpreted language with C++-like syntax | 16:12 |
| nomis | (which makes compiling C++ hard and slow) | 16:12 |
| nomis | eh, a C++ file of course. | 16:13 |
| RST38h | Yea, debugging a crash in a global data constructor can be a bitch | 16:13 |
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| nomis | RST38h: so you think it is not a function prototype? :) | 16:13 |
| RST38h | Macer: But while Sun was pushing Java down everyone's throat, a weird thing occurred with C++ | 16:13 |
| RST38h | nomis: Ah, you mean that...depends on the context | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Macer: First, everyone eventually standardized on GCC, which fixed incompatibility problems between compilers | 16:14 |
| nomis | right. C++ is way more context sensitive than C, so the compiler has to take a lot more guesses until it gets it right. --> slower compilation. | 16:14 |
| RST38h | Macer: Second, the huge variety of different CPU architectures shrunk to about 3 or 4 | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Macer: So, nowadays, if you are a decent C++ programmer, your program will run without changes on just about anything | 16:15 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile, Java adepts discovered that the real shit starts not with the language, but when you have 100+MB of platform libraries which are real easy to become incompatible even between tertiary releases | 16:16 |
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| RST38h | Hence you now have Eclipse-based "solutions" that come with their own copy of Eclipse that comes with its own copy of Java runtime, which I summarily delete off any computer I work on. | 16:17 |
| vanksi | does maemo support rsap? | 16:17 |
| Khertan_ | Hello ! | 16:17 |
| kirma | vanksi: I think I heard somewhere that it, at least initially, wouldn't have it. | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | rsap? | 16:18 |
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| vanksi | kirma, ok, thanks, even google doesn't seem to know | 16:19 |
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| kirma | I can't say I'm certain, but I *think* I read so somewhere | 16:19 |
| vanksi | Stskeeps, remote sim access profile | 16:19 |
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| kirma | but I'm pretty certain it can be added afterwards, maybe even as a thirt party feature | 16:20 |
| vanksi | yeah, just wondering if i could get the N900 to work with my car handsfree | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | vanksi: as as I am aware, no | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | vanksi: also, I don't know which version would be supported | 16:21 |
| crashanddie | but it is definitely something that should be requested | 16:21 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: ping? | 16:25 |
| wazd | wow, just got an invitation from http://womworld.com/nokia | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | for? | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | ah, inclusion | 16:28 |
| * RST38h finds it weird how many fake torrent search engines exist | 16:29 | |
| MaceN8x0 | fake torrent search engines haha | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Try google for <somthing> torrent | 16:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | torrents are so 1990s | 16:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | like xvid :) | 16:29 |
| RST38h | And then following the links | 16:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | takes you to a 30 pop up site | 16:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | trying to install 50 forms of spyware? | 16:30 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: Q&A session on the Nokia N900 and Maemo 5 | 16:31 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: ah | 16:32 |
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| lbt | fiferboy: pong | 16:33 |
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| lbt | <blush> | 16:33 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Hey, how is it going? | 16:33 |
| lbt | I'm a bit snowed under this week. I tried to get back to Qt but I think it'll be the weekend | 16:33 |
| fiferboy | Antonio is going to tag the first Fremantle release either Friday or Monday and is going to put finger scrolling in it | 16:34 |
| lbt | that's good to hear | 16:34 |
| fiferboy | There is a small issue with the different properties right now, but I will work on that | 16:34 |
| lbt | thanks | 16:35 |
| lbt | I've started to look at webkit - nothing serious though | 16:35 |
| fiferboy | It is a bit weird that they are not using QAbstractScrollArea for webviews, but I guess that is because they are extending a default WebKit install | 16:37 |
| lbt | I guess so too - they handle events differently too - it's not really a widget container I guess | 16:38 |
| fiferboy | For the properties - is there a reason we don't just install a Q_PROPERTY on the QAbstractScrollArea? | 16:39 |
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| lbt | binary compatible. Using dynamic apis the code works with and without | 16:39 |
| lbt | so if that's not true then maybe a different answer | 16:40 |
| amit_usual | Hi all I am wondering is their a way one could check the direction of wifi connection and also are their any python libraries to use wifi services including checking theb direction? | 16:42 |
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| lcuk2 | qwerty12, you about | 16:46 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk2: yessir | 16:46 |
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| asdaf | lbt, I see you are working on QT. Is the plan to move to QT instead of GTK as default toolkit in maemo? | 16:47 |
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| lbt | asdaf: yes | 16:47 |
| lbt | long term though - and transitioned | 16:47 |
| asdaf | lbt, so will hildon be replaced or ported to qt? | 16:48 |
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| lbt | we'll find out at the summit I hope | 16:48 |
| qwerty12 | X-Fade: pong | 16:49 |
| lcuk2 | hey lbt | 16:49 |
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| lbt | hi lcuk2 | 16:50 |
| lcuk2 | snowed under isnt good | 16:50 |
| lbt | true | 16:51 |
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| crashanddie | snowed above isn't good either | 16:55 |
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| lbt | interesting ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/sep/16/wikileaks-postcode-file-free-data | 17:08 |
| asdaf | sorry, anywone can confirm that n900 has/doesn't have the digital compass? | 17:12 |
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| lcuk2 | lbt, as the article says PAF data is the more important stuff | 17:17 |
| lcuk2 | and postcode lists list this are nothing new and always end up out of date | 17:17 |
| lcuk2 | its actually simpler just subscribing with one of the official sources and getting the postcode software update | 17:17 |
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| luke-jr | that data should be public domain... | 17:18 |
| lcuk2 | same with all commercial stuff - if you are running as a business you are better to be legit | 17:18 |
| lcuk2 | luke-jr, so who pays the people to collate it and keep them in jobs? | 17:19 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk2: the people who want it in the first place? | 17:19 |
| ccooke | asdaf: At least one Nokia person has said it *does* have. However, it's not in any of the official specification lists and I've seen no text mentioning it in English. | 17:19 |
| ccooke | asdaf: so the best that can be said at the moment is "It might have" | 17:20 |
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| lcuk2 | luke-jr, mmmm you seem to be missing a few things here. the postcode information is collated and mainted by a team of people | 17:23 |
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| lcuk2 | who pays those information and how do they get their money if they simply give away the data | 17:24 |
| Lorthirk | i'm sorry, what are we talking about? | 17:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | The data is not however in the public domain - the postcode file. | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It is both protected by copyright and database rights. | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Leaking it does nothing. | 17:37 |
| SpeedEvil | (other than make it illegally available) | 17:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - illegal in the UK | 17:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | s/UK/EU/ | 17:40 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: Well - illegal in the EU | 17:40 |
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| andre__ | so does the HIG mention the usage of mnemonics anywhere? | 17:58 |
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| amr | whaddup yo | 18:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | andre__: heh | 18:08 |
| timeless_mbp | probably not :) | 18:08 |
| timeless_mbp | it should say "please don't, we're a touchscreen device" | 18:08 |
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| andre__ | and it seems like it doesn't | 18:08 |
| andre__ | anyway, i'll send a message to maemo-devs first | 18:08 |
| timeless_mbp | afaik, the only main app that violates that rule is XTerm | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | mnemonics? | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and i fully intend to yell at them eventually | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | underlined letters in buttons/menus | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | which would let you use <alt>+<letter> | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | which is extremely helpful for n900 users | 18:09 |
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| * timeless_mbp waits for Stskeeps to find the alt key | 18:09 | |
| Stskeeps | i hate gnome-terminal having f10 as a bound key. as a midnight-commander user. | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | f10=menu key from windows | 18:09 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: you can disable them all | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | shift-f10 = context menu | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: i do | 18:10 |
| timeless_mbp | it makes perfect sense | 18:10 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't rely on a keyboard to have an alt key | 18:10 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: i'm a mc user too | 18:10 |
| timeless_mbp | so is romaxa | 18:10 |
| * timeless_mbp thinks you guys are all nuts | 18:10 | |
| Stskeeps | f10 = exit mc | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:10 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: butbutbut, i need alt for irssi! | 18:11 |
| Mek | esc works just fine for irssi... | 18:11 |
| timeless_mbp | aquatix: well, good, you can help Stskeeps hunt for the alt key so he can trigger the X Term mnemonics | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | Stskeeps: I use alt-0 instead of f10 | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | esc, fn, 0 on the hw kbd | 18:12 |
| aquatix | \o/ | 18:12 |
| timeless_mbp | mgedmin: on which hw kbd? | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | my n810's | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | it's a midnight commander feature: alt+1,2,3,... == <f1>,<f2>,<f3>,... | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | not that I use mc much | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | actually, I think I only use mc when I'm ssh'ed in | 18:13 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/16/moneuals-minew-a10-nettop-gets-preciously-attacked-by-hello-kit/ <- hell yes | 18:26 |
| lupine_85 | arrrrrrrrrrrrrr! | 18:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/feedbacks/BrowseReviews.dx/sku.1808 | 18:28 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm, is it just me or does it seem like council elections this year will require a big bucket of popcorn? | 18:30 |
| qwerty12 | Popcorn? | 18:31 |
| * qwerty12 gets the guns ready ;) | 18:31 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, yeah, it may end up being interesting. . . . | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | did you stand this time? | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | or did you throw in the towel | 18:37 |
| * Stskeeps can't recall | 18:37 | |
| andre__ | i take the popcorn even without the elections. | 18:37 |
| qwerty12 | andre__: It's toffee popcorn | 18:38 |
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| pupnik_ | i read "coffee popcorn" | 18:40 |
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| Corsac | "Now we are finalising the package, software, hardware, marketing campaign. The goal is to get it out in October," Jaaksi said. | 18:44 |
| Corsac | hmhm, "in october" is not really "beginning of october" :/ | 18:44 |
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| glass_ | yeh.. | 18:46 |
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| glass_ | when versed like that it's usually "our deadline is end of oct, maybe we'll make it" | 18:46 |
| SpeedEvil | And 'the goal' is not 'we will' | 18:47 |
| Corsac | definitely | 18:48 |
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| mgedmin | *whoosh* | 18:49 |
| mgedmin | is the sound a deadline makes | 18:50 |
| mgedmin | when it passes by | 18:50 |
| Corsac | like when an app is run on the n900? | 18:50 |
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| Mace_N8x0 | hehe | 18:51 |
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| Mace_N8x0 | maybe a company should give outrageous deadlines | 18:52 |
| Mace_N8x0 | like say 8 months when they'll be ready in 2 | 18:52 |
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| Mace_N8x0 | then trumpet how efficient they are :) | 18:52 |
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| jaska | scottying | 18:52 |
| crashanddie | Mace_N8x0: so you'd rather be given 2 months when really you need 8? | 18:53 |
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| Myrtti | ooooo I get to fiddle N900 in a couple of weeks :-D | 19:01 |
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| thopiekar | hi | 19:03 |
| aSIMULAter | u like fiddling with devices myrtti | 19:03 |
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| * mgedmin is green with envy | 19:04 | |
| thopiekar | got problems getting the fremantle beta sdk working.. http://pastebin.com/d1c17d6e5 | 19:04 |
| Myrtti | aSIMULAter: yup | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | although... I think 'no more cute half-screen virtual keyboard' and feel better | 19:05 |
| thopiekar | some problem in FREMANTLE-x86 | 19:05 |
| qwerty12 | mgedmin: I used to use it a *lot* (I IRCed from it, on an N800) but, now, I honestly do not miss it at all | 19:05 |
| amit_usual | thopiekar: You might beed to install the nokia binaries | 19:05 |
| luke-jr | lcuk2: collected? you mean fabricated. | 19:06 |
| thopiekar | amit_usual: k will try that out :) | 19:06 |
| thopiekar | thanks | 19:06 |
| Myrtti | I bought N800 specifically for not having a hw keyboard | 19:07 |
| * qwerty12 bought it because he's a cheapskate :) | 19:08 | |
| Myrtti | oh, and with my N95 with I had little use with the GPS | 19:09 |
| ccooke | Hmm. Seeing a few people talking about the Cortex A9. Looks fun - I wonder if they'll use it for the next device | 19:09 |
| Myrtti | and I love the idea of two changeable SD card slots | 19:09 |
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| Myrtti | but, to everyone according to their needs | 19:09 |
| SpeedEvil | 'Please B: card' | 19:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Please insert | 19:10 |
| SpeedEvil | meh | 19:10 |
| thopiekar | yeah I use my N95 as a bluetooth gps module with ExtGPS :P | 19:10 |
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| ccooke | Myrtti: What about the keyboard didn't you want? (Curious only) | 19:11 |
| Myrtti | ccooke: IIRC the scandinavian keyboard layout was either non existant or bad | 19:11 |
| mgedmin | in theory everything about the n810 seemed worse | 19:12 |
| ccooke | Myrtti: ah ha. | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | in practice, once I saw it with my eyes, I found it prettier | 19:12 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: how so? | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | and the hw kbd is kinda nice sometimes, despite my preconceptions | 19:12 |
| Myrtti | ccooke: rather have a correct vkb that I can switch from en to fi than a wrong kind of fi | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | ccooke: I'm not sure, the design works better | 19:12 |
| luke-jr | N810 keyboard certainly sucks | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | not as round, not as weirdly fat, no holes in front | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | I hated the pictures, loved it when I saw a real one | 19:13 |
| * ccooke started off on the Psion 5 - I've never wanted a device without a keyboard | 19:13 | |
| ccooke | Although every single device has had a slightly worse keyboard than the last :-) | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | buying things for what they *don't* have is pretty dumb, btw ;) | 19:13 |
| luke-jr | you can always ignore these things | 19:13 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: I meant what about the n810 looked worse? I've heard complaints about the dpad location and lack of second SD slot, but... for me, the n810 was the first device I could actually consider using. | 19:14 |
| ccooke | admittedly, GPS was more a nice-to-have and I've actually used it *much* more than I expected | 19:14 |
| Myrtti | but I'm smitten with N900. will have to wait until OpenMind before getting my hands on it, then I'll see how it goes | 19:15 |
| Myrtti | it's with 75% certainty my next phone | 19:16 |
| * ccooke is very interested in the feel of the keyboard | 19:16 | |
| * mgedmin doesn't know yet if he'll replace his phone, or if he'll carry two devices around -- a n900 with his simple series 40 nokia 6600 | 19:16 | |
| ccooke | might actually be the first time a new device's was better than the last for me in ten years :-) | 19:16 |
| mgedmin | ccooke: re "looked worse", I dunno, yeah, the dpad looked silly, I suppose | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | aesthetics are hard to explain | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | I never went to design school | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | I don't know why people like things or find them pretty | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | I just know when I do or do not in a particular case | 19:18 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: people who *did* go to a design school *still* say they're hard to explain | 19:18 |
| mgedmin | and I know that other people have different tastes (surprisingly) | 19:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | ccooke: I thought finding bullshit reasons to explain it was a required course. | 19:20 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | SpeedEvil: that's marketing | 19:21 |
| frade | lizardo, ping | 19:22 |
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| lizardo | frade: hi | 19:22 |
| frade | lizardo, it seems that gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT (and the hildon size constants in general) are missing in hildon and gtk modules | 19:22 |
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| frade | (using 0.9.0-1maemo11) | 19:23 |
| frade | (using python-hildon 0.9.0-1maemo11) | 19:23 |
| frade | lizardo, is it a known bug? am i missing something? | 19:23 |
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| * ccooke wonders... of the people travelling from the UK to the summit next month, are any considering the ferry or Eurostar for transport? | 19:28 | |
| lizardo | frade: are you sure about that? I think jrocha was using it without problems.. | 19:30 |
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| jrocha | hi | 19:31 |
| lizardo | frade: I'll check anyway, we are about to release a new version for python-hildon that covers some new API on hildon | 19:31 |
| lizardo | jrocha: is gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT working for you? | 19:31 |
| jrocha | lizardo, frade, yes | 19:31 |
| jrocha | frade, one stupid question, are you using python2.5 | 19:32 |
| jrocha | ? | 19:32 |
| frade | jrocha, yes | 19:32 |
| frade | somebody installed my program from extras-devel and it was working fine for him (!) | 19:32 |
| frade | i wonder if i am taking python-hildon from a wrong repository... | 19:33 |
| frade | i use explicitly python2.5 | 19:33 |
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| frade | jrocha, can that be a problem? | 19:33 |
| jrocha | frade, I don't think so, you MUST use python2.5 | 19:33 |
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| jrocha | frade, can you find that variable if you dir(gtk) | 19:34 |
| jrocha | ? | 19:34 |
| frade | jrocha, a dir(gtk) and dir(hildon) inside python2.5 doesn't show the HILDON_SIZE_* symbols | 19:34 |
| jrocha | it should be inside gtk | 19:34 |
| frade | yes, no size symbols there :/ | 19:35 |
| jrocha | maybe you screwed your gtk instalation? | 19:35 |
| frade | uhm... wait, i can check the python-gtk2 package version | 19:35 |
| lizardo | frade: here it works just fine: | 19:35 |
| lizardo | python2.5 -c "import gtk; print gtk.HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT" | 19:35 |
| lizardo | <flags HILDON_SIZE_FINGER_HEIGHT of type HildonSizeType> | 19:35 |
| lizardo | (using 0.9.0-1maemo11) | 19:36 |
| frade | 2.12.1-6maemo7 | 19:36 |
| lizardo | 2.12.1-6maemo7 here too | 19:36 |
| lizardo | I was referring to the hildon version earlier :) | 19:37 |
| lizardo | frade: are you on ARMEL or X86? | 19:37 |
| lizardo | frade: and fremantle ? (just to be sure) | 19:37 |
| frade | lizardo, fremantle, on the device | 19:37 |
| jrocha | frade, you can do one experience, you can remove the gtk module from inside the site-packages of python2.5 temporarily | 19:37 |
| jrocha | and then try to import it | 19:38 |
| Meizirkki | http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/351619/arm-launches-attack-on-intels-netbook-stranglehold Whoever wrote that arcticle is retarded.. | 19:38 |
| jrocha | to check if it's that gtk you're using | 19:38 |
| lizardo | frade: can you run: "apt-cache policy python-gtk2" to check where your pygtk package is coming from? | 19:38 |
| frade | the previous line (import gtk; print gtk....) says "module doesn't has not attribute..." | 19:38 |
| jrocha | or that :) | 19:38 |
| Meizirkki | "The one huge disadvantage ARM faces is that its processors are incompatible with Windows." sounds stupid | 19:39 |
| lizardo | frade: because I've seen some problems before related to the SDK guys silently getting our packages from PyMaemo and importing into the tools SDK repository :) | 19:39 |
| * SpeedEvil holds up his windows-ARM device | 19:39 | |
| Meizirkki | Windows is incompatible with ARM, saying processor is incompatible sounds stupid | 19:39 |
| frade | repository.maemo.org fremantle/free | 19:39 |
| frade | lizardo, wait, i dont have the latest version of python-gtk2 | 19:40 |
| frade | i have still 6maemo4 or something like that. Upgrading. | 19:40 |
| jrocha | :) | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meizirkki, the better point: who cares about Windows? ;) | 19:41 |
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| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: too many people. That's the problem :-) | 19:41 |
| lizardo | frade: it could be the one provided in the Maemo SDK repository... | 19:43 |
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| crashanddie | Design flaws travel in groups. | 19:44 |
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| kirma | anything that isn't windows looks like a huge disadvantage from viewpoint of a guy that's windows-centric | 19:45 |
| frade | lizardo, jrocha sorry for the noise. It works | 19:45 |
| kirma | although if you hand him for instance a browser that doesn't have a slightest hint of the underlying operating environment, he might be happy until the fact that it's not windows is exposed | 19:45 |
| frade | for some reason the python2.5-gtk2 package was "hold" | 19:46 |
| lizardo | frade: well, good to know :) | 19:46 |
| jrocha | frade, no problem, happens to the best of us! :D | 19:46 |
| frade | lizardo, jrocha it was installed -6maemo4 or something like that | 19:46 |
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| lizardo | have to go lunch now , see you later | 19:46 |
| frade | i wonder why the package was on "hold" state... just after a fresh flash | 19:46 |
| frade | see you later! thanks | 19:46 |
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| thopiekar | hmm can't start the fremantle ui.. tried to fix that problem by reinstalling but the same: http://pastebin.com/d1c17d6e5 | 19:47 |
| thopiekar | X-Fade , jeremiah , jeremiah_ : ping | 19:48 |
| wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7v815bYUw eeeeeehihihihi :D | 19:48 |
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| Corsac | without sound it's a bit less funny I guess? | 19:49 |
| thopiekar | wazd: :D | 19:50 |
| wazd | Corsac: oh, it's senseless without sound :D | 19:50 |
| thopiekar | great, great, great :D | 19:50 |
| wazd | reeeealy cool :) | 19:50 |
| wazd | What if Apple keynote was written by Cohen bros :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXT0gOk1Ogw | 19:52 |
| javispedro | wazd: the reality distortion field would allow jobs to pee on the public | 19:52 |
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| * javispedro envisions the newest apple keynote: jobs appears, shows something on a slide, then proceeds to say "Awesome, Awesome, awesome. Thanks for coming and good bye! Ah, one more thing: Gorgeus. See you!". | 19:55 | |
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| dirk2 | I'm following Maemo on BeagleBoard instructions http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/alpha.html. I reached '[sbox-maemo-beagle: ~/rootfs ] > fakeroot ./make_rootfs.sh' stage, but this fails with http://pastebin.com/m63fa69a5 | 20:00 |
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| mgedmin | ssh rules | 20:02 |
| suihkulokki | dirk2: if you run "apt-get update" on the sbox-maemo-beagle prompt, does it finish without errors? | 20:03 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: with screen and ssh... it's actually hard to imagine what you *can't* do, from a system management view :-) | 20:03 |
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| dirk2 | suihkulokki: http://pastebin.com/m211e5881 | 20:06 |
| Sudhir | I heard that qt based applicatons work very slow on n810. Is it true? What will give better performance a gtk based applicatin or qt based application on n810? | 20:07 |
| mgedmin | screen is just very useful sometimes; but it sucks as often as it rules | 20:07 |
| mgedmin | Sudhir: probably depends *a lot* on the particular applications in question | 20:07 |
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| mgedmin | qt apps probably have to pay the cost of dynamic linking of all the c++ virtual methods on startup | 20:08 |
| Sudhir | mgedmin: I am developing a touch screen based app. Say a map application on which I will use some drag and drop arrows to indicate some places. | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | gtk apps usually have fewer references | 20:08 |
| Sudhir | ok | 20:09 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: huh. I've been using screen so long, I'd be hard pressed to survive without it. | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | still, the difference will be measured in milliseconds, and it's a one-time cost | 20:09 |
| dirk2 | If I add libcodelockui1 and osso-bookmark-engine to packages list, I get different errors. Later ... | 20:09 |
| Sudhir | mgedmin: so there would not be issues in runtime? | 20:09 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: (re: qt slow) it's mostly the memory cost, I think | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | Sudhir: I've no personal experience with qt versus gtk apps at runtime | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | Sudhir: do a prototype in both, then measure -- the only way to get a correct answer | 20:10 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: qt apps will need to load an entirely new set of libraries, and there isn't really enough space on the n810 for all the GTK libs and all the QT ones... so you're either very, very short of memory or you hit swap, which slows everything down | 20:10 |
| Sudhir | mgedmin: thanks. i guess i will do that exercise. | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | yeah, ccooke has a good point -- overall system memory usage is better if all apps use the same libraries | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | which is also a good reason not to use Python on maemo | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | but you pay for that with increased development costs | 20:11 |
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| ccooke | mgedmin: unless someone else already used it, of course | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | ccooke: one of the things about Python, is that library modules cannot be shared between processes (unlike what happens with C libraries) | 20:12 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: really? damnit. | 20:12 |
| ccooke | that's unfortunate | 20:12 |
| Sudhir | mgedmin, ccooke: thanks for the explanation. Where should I look for to get some sample gtk based applications for n810? | 20:12 |
| mgedmin | I believe pypy may get mmappable .pyc files at some point | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | Sudhir: how about Maemo Mapper? | 20:13 |
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| mgedmin | not exactly a small application, but it uses gtk and deals with maps | 20:13 |
| mgedmin | and is open source | 20:13 |
| Sudhir | mgedmin: would i find its source code in maemo repositories? | 20:13 |
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| ccooke | Hmm. Wonder if we're using the -OO flag on the python scripts in Maemo | 20:15 |
| mgedmin | Sudhir: google | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | here: https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=29 | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | ccooke: it doesn't do much | 20:18 |
| Sudhir | mgedmin: thanks I am looking at some google links | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | although it may conserve some memory... hmm.... | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | would be interesting to measure | 20:18 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: that's what I thought | 20:18 |
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| ccooke | mgedmin: stick "PYTHONOPTIMISE=2" into the environment, and see what difference it makes? | 20:20 |
| ccooke | IIRC that'll be the equivalent of always running with -OO | 20:20 |
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| ccooke | (ah, manpage confirms that :-) | 20:21 |
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| mgedmin | sonata is a python app, right? | 20:21 |
| ccooke | yeah | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | VSZ=49868 without -OO | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | VSZ=48836 with -OO | 20:23 |
| ccooke | hmm. Saving a meg. | 20:23 |
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| ccooke | Probably worth it, actually, given the memory space available | 20:23 |
| mgedmin | or 2% of VSZ | 20:23 |
| mgedmin | the scary bit is that *some* apps may be parsing docstrings and using those for correct execution | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | e.g. I believe there are parser libraries that require you to define your grammar in docstrings | 20:24 |
| ccooke | ah ha... | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | and some command-line tools construct their --help message from docstrings | 20:24 |
| ccooke | Fun :-/ | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | so it's a risky thing to turn on by default system-wise | 20:24 |
| javispedro | does that happen? O.o | 20:24 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: this is the downside of using a parsed structure for commenting | 20:25 |
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| javispedro | that's what you get when you don't just strip all that to begin with :P | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | might be fine if you document this in your platform porting guide and allow individual packages to override it | 20:25 |
| ccooke | exectuable comments are really quite evil | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | is documentation executable? | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | I personally dislike the "define grammar in docstrings" bit | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | too | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | the --help example appeals to me | 20:26 |
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| mgedmin | not that command-line apps are what maemo is for :) | 20:26 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: the problem is, docstrings are the only way to create a multiline comment in python... | 20:26 |
| mgedmin | um, no | 20:27 |
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| mgedmin | just put a # in front of every line | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | presto! | 20:27 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: that's not a multiline comment, that's a lot of single-line comments | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | you're arguing semantics | 20:27 |
| ccooke | yes, but well-defined ones | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | a docstring is not a commentr | 20:27 |
| ccooke | no, but the python tutorials I've seen treat it as one | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | if you're arguing about the ease of commenting out many lines, my answer is: get yourself a real editor | 20:28 |
| ccooke | you're missing the point. | 20:28 |
| mgedmin | I abhor people who abuse docstrings for commenting out code | 20:28 |
| * mgedmin probably is missing the point | 20:28 | |
| mgedmin | but arguing on the internet is fun! | 20:29 |
| ccooke | docstrings are *communicated* as a way of commenting code | 20:29 |
| ccooke | that's how they're presented to users. | 20:29 |
| ccooke | mgedmin: heh. Far too true. | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | gaah, yeah, when you said "commenting", I assumed "commenting out" as in "temporarily disabling code" | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | my bad | 20:30 |
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| mgedmin | yeah, I've seen docstrings used inside functions | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | I personally dislike that | 20:31 |
| mgedmin | I think PEP-8 agrees with me | 20:31 |
| ccooke | I've only used #, myself - done too much coding in languages which don't have multiline comments, so I don't miss it. | 20:31 |
| mgedmin | my view: docstrings document the external API (classes, functions, modules), comments describe implementation details | 20:33 |
| mgedmin | different audiences, different semantics, different syntax | 20:33 |
| * mgedmin is going through FBReader's bug tracker | 20:33 | |
| ccooke | *nod* | 20:34 |
| mgedmin | that sounds better than it is | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | I'm not looking for bugs I could fix; I'm trying to see if the wishlist I want to suggest is already there ;) | 20:35 |
| ccooke | heh | 20:36 |
| ccooke | what do you want? | 20:36 |
| javispedro | BACK BUTTON! I want hardware BACK BUTTON!!! :P | 20:38 |
| javispedro | sorry ;) | 20:38 |
| SpeedEvil | d-pad! | 20:38 |
| javispedro | come to think of it, fbreader can't map "back" to a hard button | 20:38 |
| * mgedmin wants a BOOK COVER button, so he could answer "What are you reading?" questions without words | 20:39 | |
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| andre__ | javispedro, backspace? | 20:41 |
| * mgedmin digs out an obscure metadata standard for HTML and updates http://www.fbreader.org/mantis/view.php?id=102 | 20:41 | |
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| javispedro | andre__: oh, is that true? a hardcoded mapping? (can't test right now) | 20:42 |
| javispedro | (in case you mean fbreader, of course :) ) | 20:42 |
| andre__ | i only said "keyboards have a backspace key". didn't read the backlog :-P | 20:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also. A fun app for generic powersaving - has anyone seen the screen security offering using eye-tracking and scrambling what the eye is not looking at? | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | If you did that - but dimmed all but what the eye was looking at | 20:43 |
| javispedro | why do they keep calling use cases that require constant monitoring "powersaving" ? ;) | 20:44 |
| SpeedEvil | of course this doesn't work on current backlights | 20:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | You can powersave while in use by turning off stuff that's not used | 20:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, FBReader == zoom +/-? | 20:46 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: zoom keys scroll. I want back the "back" toolbar button does, only in a hardware key. | 20:47 |
| javispedro | s/back/what/ | 20:47 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: GeneralAntilles: zoom keys scroll. I want what the "back" toolbar button does, only in a hardware key. | 20:47 |
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| * javispedro adds to TODO list.... | 20:48 | |
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| lcuk2 | javispedro, but what does back do | 20:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | It clearly cues up a Sir-Mix-A-Lot track. | 20:51 |
| javispedro | lcuk2: for example, in epub books, return to Table of Contents. Plucker books, on the other side, have actual hyperlinks and thus back acts like your average web browser's back button. | 20:51 |
| lcuk2 | ahh | 20:52 |
| * SpeedEvil loves big books and he cannot lie. | 20:52 | |
| * javispedro has nearly all technical documentation you could think of in plucker format | 20:52 | |
| lcuk2 | i love big books full of pictures of women holding their big boos! | 20:52 |
| lcuk2 | *k | 20:52 |
| javispedro | (outdated since I've not cared to update it since the palm days :P) | 20:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | I like html - I have a little backreference script that does backreference links to the first occurance of a proper name that's not been in the past n00 lines | 20:53 |
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| mgedmin | mantis is a weird bugtracking system | 21:00 |
| mgedmin | javispedro: the Escape key goes back in *my* fbreader | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | any of the maemo GTK+ peeps around? having some trouble after we upgraded to maemo-gtk 2.14 and network-manager-gnome :P | 21:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I'm not sure I know what the back key does in FBReader. | 21:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, I see. | 21:10 |
| mgedmin | help you out when you accidentally jump somewhere you didn't intend to jump | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | evince should have one | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | grr! | 21:11 |
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| mgedmin | now I remember why I stopped using it | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | you try to use the stylus to pan | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | only to discover the text underneath was a hyperlink warping you to the end of the 300-page document | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | there's no back button | 21:11 |
| mgedmin | what do you do? | 21:12 |
| mgedmin | curse, is what | 21:12 |
| johnsq | uninstall | 21:12 |
| mgedmin | I wish the builtin pdf reader remembered the document and the current page when you closed and re-opened it | 21:13 |
| mgedmin | it's kinda very nice otherwise | 21:13 |
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| javispedro | mgedmin: escape does nothing here. holding it closes fbreader. either way, escape is reprogrammable keybinding, but "back" is not on the list of possible actions | 21:15 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: easiest way is to grab any Plucker book. | 21:15 |
| mgedmin | javispedro: very interesting | 21:15 |
| mgedmin | oops, you're right | 21:16 |
| mgedmin | why did I think escape was back? | 21:16 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: because that's what I'd expect in a Hildon app. | 21:16 |
| lcuk2 | *any app | 21:16 |
| mgedmin | because it works when you accidentally click something like "browse library" or "network search" | 21:16 |
| lcuk2 | its the universal oh shit button | 21:17 |
| mgedmin | javispedro: I believe the action is called Undo | 21:17 |
| mgedmin | so you can map escape to it | 21:17 |
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| mgedmin | yep, the toolbar buttons are mapped to "gotoHome", "undo", "redo" in toolbar.xml | 21:18 |
| javispedro | lol | 21:18 |
| javispedro | s/lol/wow | 21:18 |
| * mgedmin customized toolbar.xml to put smallScrollBackward/smallScrollForward as toolbar buttons, because HARDWARE KEYS SUCK | 21:18 | |
| javispedro | mgedmin: you're right, thanks!! | 21:19 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: they rule for fullscreen. | 21:19 |
| mgedmin | you've a point there, I suppose | 21:19 |
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| mgedmin | I find fullscreen to be not colourful enough, and with too small margins, so I don't use it | 21:19 |
| lcuk2 | i never liked touching the screen in fbreader | 21:20 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: so I put 10 px margins and set white over black text | 21:20 |
| lcuk2 | one tap and the doc would go south | 21:20 |
| mgedmin | yeah, tap scrolling is completely unusable | 21:20 |
| javispedro | lcuk2: worst is when one tap in ToC would go... well, anywhere. | 21:20 |
| mgedmin | which is why I settled for toolbar buttons | 21:20 |
| lcuk2 | its why i like grab scrolling | 21:20 |
| mgedmin | don't get me started about the size of tappable areas in the library view | 21:20 |
| lcuk2 | it never mattered | 21:20 |
| mgedmin | which is why I only ever use the add book dialog | 21:21 |
| mgedmin | why can't fbreader do panning? | 21:21 |
| mgedmin | (answer: because nobody wrote a patch) | 21:21 |
| lcuk2 | speed | 21:21 |
| mgedmin | that too | 21:21 |
| * javispedro removes something from this TODO list, thanks to mgedmin. | 21:21 | |
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| lcuk2 | i think the kindle has a faster refresh rate | 21:21 |
| mgedmin | :) | 21:21 |
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| mgedmin | but fbreader doesn't flicker | 21:21 |
| * lcuk2 makes a point to try it | 21:21 | |
| * mgedmin is a fan of double-buffering | 21:21 | |
| Captain_Picard | any NEW ON N900? | 21:22 |
| Captain_Picard | news* | 21:22 |
| javispedro | the kindle? faster refresh rate? eink??? | 21:22 |
| lcuk2 | mgedmin, i used to see it draw | 21:22 |
| mgedmin | actually, fbreader *does* flicker if you're fullscreen, or if you rotate the text | 21:22 |
| ccooke | hmm. There's a thought. If there's no escape key, that's going to make a load of console apps *much* harder to use | 21:22 |
| mgedmin | non-fullscreen updates seem instant to me | 21:22 |
| lcuk2 | you have low refresh eyes | 21:22 |
| mgedmin | :) | 21:22 |
| lcuk2 | eat more carrots | 21:22 |
| mgedmin | eink sounds like something e-pigs would say | 21:22 |
| mgedmin | eink, eink eink | 21:22 |
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| lcuk2 | javispedro, id actually quite like to hack on a kindle | 21:23 |
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| javispedro | mgedmin: glad you didn't hear "Gyricon" then. | 21:23 |
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| mgedmin | what's that? | 21:23 |
| javispedro | xerox's version of eink (they were first btw) | 21:24 |
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| andre__ | anybody can tell me how composite chars work in windows xp? in linux i can enter ~ and then n and i get ñ | 21:27 |
| andre__ | is there something similar in windows? | 21:27 |
| andre__ | (or the same concept?) | 21:27 |
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| johnsq | a | 21:27 |
| johnsq | andre__: alt keycode | 21:27 |
| andre__ | argh. | 21:28 |
| andre__ | you mean like alt and then using the numpad to enter "232"? | 21:28 |
| suihkulokki | javispedro: xerox seems well into the "invent first and let others take the market" business :P | 21:28 |
| johnsq | andre__: yes | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: it depends on the keymap | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love option keys. | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno how you guys do it in Linux and Windows. | 21:29 |
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| andre__ | i want to know about windows. | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | alt-keys | 21:29 |
| crashanddie | windows? | 21:29 |
| andre__ | yes, this is another case of discussing with managers that the linux way might NOT be intuitive when selling a Maemo5 device :-P | 21:29 |
| crashanddie | I've been hearing that name quite a lot? Is this some new hype? | 21:29 |
| andre__ | crashanddie, "microsoft windows" is the complete name. just google it | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, we keep telling you you need to wash them. | 21:30 |
| javispedro | suihkulokki: very true. and sad. | 21:30 |
| crashanddie | microsoft? | 21:30 |
| crashanddie | Another web 2.0 bloatware and vaporware company eh? | 21:30 |
| andre__ | my question still stands. | 21:31 |
| andre__ | useful answers are welcome. | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: my windows in danish lets me use ~ (a dead key) plus n :P | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | which is the sane method sometimes | 21:31 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, oh nice | 21:31 |
| spoleeba | hypothetical question: What would be the best way to find someone to contract with to write a high quality maemo application under NDA? | 21:31 |
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| mgedmin | ask someone on IRC? | 21:31 |
| * mgedmin ducks | 21:31 | |
| spoleeba | mgedmin, no | 21:31 |
| crashanddie | spoleeba: talk to lcuk2 | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | spoleeba: put out a tender and evaluate skills and performance in the past? :P | 21:32 |
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| mgedmin | there are companies (I think Collabora is one) that have been doing exactly that for Nokia | 21:32 |
| crashanddie | openedhand as well | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | spoleeba: really depends on the type of ap | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | p | 21:32 |
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| spoleeba | Stskeeps, its for demonstration purposes for something else | 21:33 |
| javispedro | In Microsoft Word, a capital Ñ can be typed by pressing [CTRL]+[Shift]+[~] and then pressing "N" | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | spoleeba: I repeat, talk to lcuk2 | 21:33 |
| spoleeba | crashanddie, thanks | 21:33 |
| javispedro | microsoft reinventing input methods for every other app. | 21:33 |
| * Stskeeps votes for lcuk2 to | 21:33 | |
| Stskeeps | o | 21:33 |
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| crashanddie | luck two too? | 21:34 |
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| wazd | Now I know who Eldar reminds me | 21:38 |
| wazd | Gypsy :D | 21:38 |
| wazd | "I predict n900 will not sell in Russia! Or it will" | 21:38 |
| lcuk2 | did someone mention my name | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | We don't care for you. | 21:38 |
| lcuk2 | \o/ bah | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Go was the windows with crashanddie. | 21:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/was/wash/ | 21:38 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Go wash the windows with crashanddie. | 21:38 |
| lcuk2 | you might not, but others do | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Your imaginary friends don't count. | 21:39 |
| wazd | lcuk2: go was DOS :D | 21:39 |
| wazd | damn, same typo :) | 21:39 |
| wazd | s/was/wash | 21:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's contagious! | 21:39 |
| wazd | fail :( | 21:39 |
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| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: ping? | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: re 5117, sure libalarm doesn't exist? it's very much alive in beta2 | 22:23 |
| andre__ | uargh, did i say this for fremantle? damn | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | i'll add some wise comments | 22:24 |
| andre__ | yes, of course it does exist | 22:25 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: your failure has always been contagious | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: yessir? | 22:28 |
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| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: rootsh is heading for Extras ;) | 22:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Heh :) | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | first package to reach? | 22:30 |
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| X-Fade | qwerty12_N810: First app. | 22:30 |
| * Stskeeps gets out the champagne | 22:30 | |
| X-Fade | I still need to do some backend scripting to unlock it, but I'll give qwerty12_N810 the honours tomorrow to push the button.. | 22:31 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Do I get a Rolls Royce delivered to my house too? :) | 22:32 |
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| X-Fade | heh ;) | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, good thing it's so limited. ;) | 22:33 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: you're about as limited as a aids-infected crackwhore :P | 22:35 |
| crashanddie | incredibly resourceful, and you could probably get whatever it is you need, but in the end, you'll end up fucked | 22:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Meaning that you'll end up like crashanddie | 22:36 |
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| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: at least, we'll get fucked in our lifetime, q | 22:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Right.. So what's your limit on how much you'll spend on doing so, by a whore? | 22:38 |
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| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: I have a well paid job, I don't have a limit | 22:38 |
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| lcuk2 | course you do. i still remember the time the pimp beat you up cos you tried to pay by cheque. | 22:40 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk2: that's just because I was trying to save your ass, as you tried to bribe him with nectar points | 22:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: Nice... Have a good time getting herpes and paying a lot for the privilege. Because, let's face it, only way you're gonna get it safe is with a blow-up doll, or your hand | 22:41 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: right :) | 22:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :p | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: I suggest you don't go too far, you might hear things that hurt your ears | 22:42 |
| crashanddie | and no, the tongue-in-cheeck smiley doesn't fix everything :) | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: bored? | 22:42 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, uh? | 22:43 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | crashanddie: Please, by all means, say this stuff that will "hurt my ears" | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: retutime would be a good choice for reimplementation :P | 22:43 |
| crashanddie | qwerty12_N810: just leave it at that | 22:43 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, trying to figure out proper CAL write places without bricking my tablet :) | 22:44 |
| lcuk3 | isnt that kinda like brain surgery on yourself | 22:44 |
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| lcuk3 | without a mirror | 22:44 |
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| crashanddie | "Hey, I wonder what this squooshy thing does... kwak... kwak.... baaaaaaaaaah" | 22:45 |
| * lcuk3 vanishes anyway | 22:46 | |
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| lcuk3 | cyas later | 22:46 |
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| * GeneralAntilles opened System Preferences for some goddamn reason. . . . | 22:48 | |
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| * javispedro rushes to read qgil's post in 3d accel thread | 23:15 | |
| javispedro | "3 emails exchanged this week, to give you a specific example. " yay | 23:15 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=328081&postcount=286 c'mon, give qgil another round of karma, he deserves it for any progress at all :) | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | mm, i guess i should reply to an email related to that | 23:18 |
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| javispedro | Stskeeps: post in that thread too and get some karma from me! :) | 23:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, the karma pimp. | 23:23 |
| javispedro | just wait until I finish registering all those puppet accounts | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: do you have any questions you want answered? | 23:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pff, there's no way you'll ever catch up to all of the sock puppet I, apparently, have on wikipedia. :P | 23:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/puppet/puppets/ | 23:24 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Pff, there's no way you'll ever catch up to all of the sock puppets I, apparently, have on wikipedia. :P | 23:24 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps: your question made my head hurt. which kind of question? is "what can we expect out of the 'deal'?" a valid one? | 23:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, why is the sky blue? | 23:27 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: dust | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: spectrum of light something | 23:27 |
| lbt | http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html | 23:28 |
| lbt | now ask about the plane on the runway | 23:28 |
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| javispedro | what is the odour of the sky? | 23:34 |
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| javispedro | javispedro: my dog has no nose. how does he smell? awful! | 23:38 |
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| rzr | hi | 23:48 |
| rzr | can you suggest some free alt to wayfinder ? | 23:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | rzr, Maemo Mapper? | 23:51 |
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| ZrZ | GeneralAntilles: ok let me try this | 23:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | alternative | 23:53 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 23:53 | |
| timeless_mbp | how about "working product" | 23:53 |
| luke-jr | O.o? | 23:54 |
| * timeless_mbp wouldn't call the bundled products "working" | 23:57 | |
| wazd | jeez, new Rammstein video is absolutely freaky :D | 23:57 |
| javispedro | timeless: last time I saw, the browser was "bundled" ;) | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: no, the browser is integrated | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | maps are bundled | 23:58 |
| * qwerty12_N810 coughs | 23:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | please note the same distinction applies for the n900 :) | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | here's one way to tell that maps aren't integrated: | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | contacts support address fields | 23:58 |
| luke-jr | here's another: | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | if the address field can't be used to open maps, and if maps can't find / use contacts, it isn't integrated | 23:59 |
| luke-jr | I can't tell it to locate wifi APs and find the best route from Omaha to KC stopping at them every hour or two, and planning out my meal stops to make the fastest yet nutritionally competent trip | 23:59 |
| luke-jr | :p | 23:59 |
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