IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-09-17

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SpeedEvilyou missed out 'with food from dumpsters' on the end00:00
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javispedroWith the N900 the most probable is that ol' Maemo users will jump quite fast to extras-testing (just like most long term Debian users end up pretty fast in Unstable) and the newcomers will be mostly happy with the good selection available in Extras."00:07
javispedrofyi :)00:07
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Stskeepswas extras going to be enabled by default or was it yet another have to enable, btw?00:10
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javispedrobah, I now typed .00:16
javispedroStskeeps: my assumption is that it'll will be enabled, since shows some of the apps (supposedly soon) there.00:17
javispedrobut, come to think of it, tableeter did too.... :P00:17
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pupnikevening javispedro00:24
pupnikdid you see the iphone version on zodttd's site?00:24
javispedrohi pupnik00:24
javispedroah, snes4iphone?00:24
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pupnikmaybe you can share - yes they are working on ASM-izing stuff00:24
javispedroah yes, i read taht00:24
javispedroactually, he was using the C core before00:24
pupnikanything they report look interesting or usable :)00:25
javispedronot the same one as the one I'm currently using, he probably got it from osnes9x00:25
javispedronot really. actually, reading his post I said wtf twice.00:25
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javispedroI would like to see the "massive performance increases".00:26
javispedrosince if he's getting them, either the way I'm using the assembly sucks, or I used a really good C core.00:26
javispedrocause as you said we're using the same assembly cpu core now (osnes9x)00:26
javispedro(including "Super Mario RPG is no longer compatible" hiihii) :P00:27
pupnikheh yep00:27
javispedroI believe that the massive performance gains come from disabling transparency by default, which it seems he did00:27
pupnikTried playing a platformer again.  Boy do you notice getting old playing those.00:27
johnsqjavispedro: good C core should have the same speed as assembler, you can use some GNU features.00:28
pupnikAhh, a bit of cheap self promotion perhaps00:28
Mouseyi do rock!00:30
javispedropupnik: I wouldn't really like to say that, but the post reads a bit like so. For example, he talks about iPhone clobbering R9 making it difficult, which would make sense _only_ if the original platform were the asm code was developed did not clobber r9. guess what? it does. palmos stored the pointer to the first dynamic library there00:31
pupnikhmm  R9 is what?00:31
javispedroarm's r9 I mean00:31
crashanddie__after r800:31
johnsqpupnik: processor register00:32
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* javispedro actually removed the part where it push'd/pop'd r9 :P00:37
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bobbydI'm seriously excited about the n900 now01:05
bobbydthis s a great vid:
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* millenomi has been plotting to get on board for quite some time.01:06
bobbydI wasn't that interested in the iPhone, but this looks like an excellent device01:07
bobbydlooks like it could replace my netbook at work01:07
millenominow that My Business Is Actually Slightly Profitable01:08
millenomiI was planning to grab a N90001:08
millenomiand a non-phone Android tablet like the new Archos ones.01:08
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bobbydI've got the money, just need to justify it a bit more :)01:09
bobbydI'm concerned that it'll be expensive to get a good data plan01:09
mavhcif phones didn't cost 40% more than non phones, maybe01:10
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GeneralAntillesbobbyd, provider?01:17
bobbydGeneralAntilles: I could get any provider, but I'm using vodaphone atm01:19
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GeneralAntillesAh, UK, that I can't help with.01:20
GeneralAntillesThough I hear there are some reasonable plans available.01:20
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bobbydI'll have a search and ask at work :)01:22
ds3GeneralAntilles:what can you help with? US carriers?01:23
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GeneralAntillesds3, well, I have a recommendation or two for them. ;)01:23
ds3GeneralAntilles: which one?01:24
JoeBrainiPhone is great, if you want more productivity you can jailbreak & get openSSH or network tethering.01:24
ds3iphone is horrible01:24
GeneralAntillesAT&T you can get away with their $15/mo "Unlimited" Data plan.01:24
GeneralAntillesWeb'n'Walk should also work OK with T-Mobile.01:24
JoeBrainwhy ds3?01:24
luke-jris it actually unlimited?01:25
ds3JobBrain: it is too sealed up01:25
GeneralAntillesJoeBrain, you want #mac or #iphone.01:25
JoeBrainNo, it's like 1.5GB?01:25
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, is anything?01:25
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: usually unlimited wouldn't mean 5 GB limit01:25
ds3GA: is that $15 stand alone or $15 feature?01:25
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bobbydGeneralAntilles: that's a good deal!01:25
GeneralAntillesds3, $15 feature01:25
JoeBrainGeneralAntilles: Sorry I'm 30 min late to the previous convo01:25
GeneralAntilles$35 standalone.01:25
ds3that is expensive01:25
ds3I'll stay with TMO01:26
luke-jr5 GB/mo is patheticly little01:26
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ds3on a different note,what's a cheap source for replacement BP5L's?01:26
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, the wireless war isn't one we're going to win in the short term.01:26
JoeBrainYeah I'm usually worried about hitting limits though I'm probably never even close.. which is why I don't tether :\01:27
GeneralAntillesds3, Amazon had Nokia ones for relatively cheap last I checked.01:27
luke-jreven a 56k dialup modem can do 17.3 GB/mo01:27
GeneralAntillesJoeBrain, I tether all of the time and rarely hit more than about 1GB/mo.01:27
ds3GA: what are you calling cheap?01:27
GeneralAntillesds3, it was around $20 last I checked.01:27
ds3hmmm guess that sale is over then01:27
JoeBrainHrmm I only use it when it's an emergency.. when I have to be on the road & my hockey team is playing I'll tether for Slingbox :D01:27
ds3$35 is best on amazon... there are some website claiming about $2401:28
GeneralAntillesIt tends to fluctuate depending on who's offering them at the time.01:28
ds3even at $20 it seems steep... they were selling new Treo650 batteries for $1001:28
bobbydwhat does tethering mean?01:28
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GeneralAntillesds3, yeah, but how many Treos where there compared to N800s and E90s? ;)01:32
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GeneralAntillesbobbyd, using your cellphone as a modem for another device.01:32
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bobbydI do that with my current phone :)01:34
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ds3GA: fair point01:35
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ds3but the BP5L I assume is used in more then just the 770 and N80001:35
GeneralAntillesNot a lot more.01:35
GeneralAntilles770, N810, 930001:36
GeneralAntillesE90 was BP-4L01:36
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b1ackdeathis it posible to open the web browser to a certen url from the comand line or script02:03
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SpeedEvilmischan - ignore that02:04
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Dantonichey what repository is flite in? can't find it...02:06
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AStormis that maemo alsa-dsp plugin supposed to work?02:14
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GeneralAntillesOne would figure explaining partition layouts wouldn't require half a day.02:34
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torchiecan any handset maker besides nokia make their own device with maemo pre installed?02:40
GeneralAntillesNokia does not have any plans to license Maemo as far as we're aware.02:41
Firebirdbah, what happened to imagemagick for diablo02:41
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torchiei see02:43
torchiegonna have to find a way to get the cash for an n90002:43
torchieand hope they make a NAM02:43
GeneralAntillesThere's a NAM version02:44
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GeneralAntillesIt's available for pre-order from Nokia.02:44
GeneralAntillesNorth AMerican, pupnik.02:44
pupnikOh i thought vietNAM or somth02:45
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torchien900 vietnamese model02:47
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* speedevil loves n900 long-time.02:50
torchiebest phone or bestest phone02:53
speedevilnot unexpected - but still meh02:55
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torchiewhat's quid02:58
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles: can you spot any differences in the spec of NAM and rest of world?02:58
torchiewait let me google that for me02:58
speedevilA quid is a british pound sterling.02:58
speedevil$1.8 or so at the moment02:58
ShadowJK(it's money)02:59
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, only the keymap.02:59
torchie10 money please03:00
ShadowJKUk and nam keymaps are different? :)03:02
ShadowJKOh I guess nam has z instead of s..03:02
speedevilAnd no ou key03:03
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torchieou key?03:03
speedevilFor colour.03:04
speedevilAnd flavour.03:04
speedevilLooking at the price plans - probably about half the price goes into the phone - on a contract.03:05
* VDVsx wonders why Russian spammers like his blog so much o_003:07
torchiethere's a key for that?03:08
speedevilBecause you have a blog that can easily be programmatically altered?03:08
speedevilrather than recaptcha or something?03:09
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VDVsxyes, but the comments are moderated03:09
VDVsxand the spam filter catch amost everthing ;)03:10
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VDVsxanyway, useless spam, I can't read a single word in Russian:P03:11
JoeBrainthe R & E keys are backwards for UK also right?03:14
JoeBraincentre and theatre03:14
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* ShadowJK ponders spending weekend figuring out scratchbox03:44
pupnikThu Sep 17 02:45:30 CEST 200903:45
pupnikShadowJK: on what OS are you going to install it?03:45
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torchiewindows 3.103:46
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ShadowJKPupnik: i have ubuntu something in kvm03:50
ShadowJKi believe I might have succesfully installed sbox and maemo4 sdk in it03:50
pupnikk.  i have an older SB image somewhere03:50
ShadowJKBut i need to figure out how to actually use it :)03:50
pupnikmaybe we can help each other then03:51
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GeneralAntillesMultitouch is so silly.03:57
GeneralAntilles"Let's think up stupid ways to use this."03:58
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* RST38h heroically defeated the rootkit04:17
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rm_you|hey RST38h04:19
rm_you|so question... fremantle doesn't use DSME, right?04:19
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JoeBrainGeneralAntilles: Yeah that's the problem with people, they have hardware/software solutions & then they manufacture problems for them04:22
RST38hit does, afaik04:22
RST38hat least advbacklight interfaced with it04:23
rm_you|GeneralAntilles/JoeBrain: I don't know what you've been talking about, but people suck, as a rule :P04:23
JoeBrainThe answer for "should we do something with this" seems to unfortunately lie in marketing usually04:23
rm_you|RST38h: ... that's what i'm working on04:23
JoeBrainrm_you|: lol I'll narrow it down to OEM people :D04:23
rm_you|RST38h: trying to figure out if i need to change the brightness method for fremantle or not04:24
rm_you|RST38h: AFAIK (and it makes sense) the ScratchBox environment doesn't run DSME, so i have no way to test <_<04:25
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GeneralAntillesrm_you|, they're trying to make it look cool on NCIS and it just looks totally contrived.04:35
GeneralAntillesMinority Report is the only really cool use of multitouch I've seen.04:35
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b-man16man i HATE WINDOWS!!!!!04:38
b-man16i got a blue screen on my gp's laptop >:(04:39
b-man16grand patents04:40
GeneralAntillesSuper Patents?!04:40
* b-man16 hates auto complete04:40
rm_you|GeneralAntilles: make what look cool? multitouch?04:42
b-man16anyways, it's late here so i need to go - see you guys later :)04:42
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GeneralAntillesrm_you|, yeah, multitouch.04:50
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rm_you|are the graphics in Xephyr kind of buggy for everyone? or is it just me05:00
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GeneralAntillesBuggy for certain chipsets.05:05
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pupnik  [ First handmade subpixel type family, ever | Typophile ]  <<< very cool font05:34
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MacerNCIS: LA?05:35
Macerblah what garbage :)05:36
Macerthey had like a spinoff episode and it looked stupid05:36
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GeneralAntillesEw, subpixel, really, pupnik?05:37
GeneralAntillesSubpixel makes my eyes bleed.05:37
RST38hsubpixel fonts are evil05:42
GeneralAntillesSubpixel is for Windows users.05:42
RST38hto drive them blind and then inadvertently convert them to linux05:44
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pupnikDudes, i think you fail to be sufficiently impressed at a hand-drawn subpixel-hinted 3-pixel font06:24
pupnikthere are almost no greys in the font - it's all colors06:25
pupnikIt's a masterpiece of pixel pushing06:25
GeneralAntillesIt's bias or something.06:25
rm_you|it's impressive technically but fails spectacularly at being legible :P06:25
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MaceN8x0poor hubble06:34
MaceN8x0always broken heh06:35
MaceN8x0who knows.. im watching when they fixed it in 200806:35
MaceN8x0i didnt realize it was almost 20 yrs old06:36
RST38hpupnik: I am kinda fed with hand drawn subpixel fonts since ZX Spectrum06:37
RST38hpupnik: that 3x5 font was a real pain to look at06:37
MaceN8x0they always show nebulae when talking about hubble06:38
pupnikspectrum didnt have a LCD06:38
GeneralAntillesMaceN8x0, oh, check the new pictures.06:38
GeneralAntillesClarity went way up.06:38
MaceN8x0after the repair?06:38
RST38hRight, so they were drawing it with normal pixels06:38
RST38hSmeared by TV signal =)06:38
GeneralAntillesThey fixed the mirror.06:38
MaceN8x0used windex to clean it?06:39
MaceN8x0they are showing a planetary system being born06:40
MaceN8x0it is like06:40
MaceN8x04 pixels heh06:41
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MaceN8x0a teaspoon of neutron star weighs how much?06:45
GadgetoidWhat the monkey!06:49
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johnxgood morning!07:28
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* RST38h wonders if he can make pulseaudio work before falling asleep07:34
johnxRST38h, in what scenario?07:34
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RST38hjohnx: simple07:35
johnxdeveloper perspective or user?07:35
RST38hWell, I have done it07:36
RST38hdeveloper of course07:36
RST38hBut it eats off 12fps. Not fair.07:36
pupniki've heard pulse is a bit heavy07:37
RST38h12fps is not a bit...07:38
RST38hit is 20% of the needed framerate07:38
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johnxis pulse using lots of CPU time? or just messing with timing in some way?07:41
johnxyou're not making it resample the audio, right?07:41
johnx(not trying to be condescending, just throwing out ideas)07:41
RST38hOk, lowering sampling drequency to 22kHz put it back in place07:41
RST38hjohnx: I have no idea what PA's native sampling freq is. For ESD it was 44.1kHz07:42
johnxwell, the native for the tablet sound hardware is 44.1kHz07:42
RST38hjohnx: Looks like setting it to 22.05kHz makes PA happier07:42
johnxwas it soaking up CPU time? or maybe a memory bandwidth thing?07:42
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RST38hit was PA + my smooth scaling code07:45
RST38hturned smooth scaling off, set PA to 22.05kHz, and I am back at 60fps07:45
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RST38hnow just a few issues left: keyboard, menus, full screen mode...07:47
RST38hit shapes to be a nice little gaming system, especially given decent keyboard07:48
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johnx"it" = N900?07:52
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ShadowJKPA is a nontrivial CPU hog even on pc desktop :/07:55
* ShadowJK attempts to compile latest mplayer for diablo07:55
RST38hShadowJK: Appears to be under control so far07:55
RST38hShadowJK: Of course, you never know what type of load will make things go haywire...07:56
ShadowJKYeah, like 48000hz on N8x007:57
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ShadowJKEven MPlayer's non-fast resampler is faster than feeding 4800007:57
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RST38hShadow: ESD works in 44100 natively. Do not try feeding it other rates07:59
RST38h'cause it will get ugly07:59
ShadowJKlol, I think nobody has tried to compile mplayer for arm6 since... since Cortex A8 came into existence07:59
* RST38h decides to try AlmostTI07:59
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ShadowJKRST38h, yeah but back when I last used esd on desktop, it resampled quite happily in P133 at decent speed07:59
ShadowJKAdmittedly at suck-ass quality08:00
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timelessgadgetoid: are you really on an n900?08:03
* timeless is waiting for this flight to take off08:03
RST38hHmm...trying AlmostTI was a really BAD idea.08:04
* timeless is starting summer vacation today08:04
* timeless will see people in a month or so08:05
Gadgetoid_n900fun times!08:05
johnxbon voyage08:05
Gadgetoid_n900timeless - there's something distinctly freudian about my nick08:05
Gadgetoid_n900I meant to type n81008:05
pupnikYou must be the n1000 then08:06
ShadowJKsummer vacation in mid-september? :-)08:07
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Gadgetoid_n900i will probably end up with an n90008:08
Gadgetoid_n900despite my desperately wanting to go payg + data sim08:08
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timelessshadowjk: why leave hel in the summer? i'd miss the three good days of weather08:09
johnxGadgetoid_n900, what's stopping you from doing that with an n900?08:10
RST38hOk, building VGBA and hitting the bed.08:10
timelessthis way, i manage to miss the last minute n900 panic instead08:10
ShadowJKtimeless, excellent plan :)08:10
* ShadowJK looks at the assembler protesting :(08:10
johnxRST38h, going to bed early or monstrously late?08:10
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timelessnot intentional, but it managed to work out nicely08:10
timelessok, bye all08:10
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RST38hjohnx: as usual, 1:1408:11
johnx1:14 *PM*?08:12
RST38hIt is US east coast08:12
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johnxforgot you were back here :)08:12
ShadowJKHm. Maybe the as in sb is too old08:12
ShadowJKoh, 2005.. :/08:13
* ShadowJK sighs08:13
RST38hno cortex for you =)08:13
ShadowJKRST38h, this is friggin vfp08:13
RST38hActually, Fremantle should be using 2009 toolchain08:14
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ShadowJKadmittedly the vfp assembler file seems to start with .fpu neon08:14
* ShadowJK ponders08:14
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ShadowJKwhat's "UAL Syntax"?08:18
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RST38hUnified Assembly Language?08:26
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RST38hOk. VGBA runs. Still having audio problems when fps get too low though08:31
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ShadowJKhm, right08:33
ShadowJKI hope the problem is that -march wasn't set08:33
* ShadowJK wonders what gcc -march corresponds to cpu in N8x0 anyway08:34
pupnikhmm arm1136js08:35
pupniknow what is the difference between -maarch and -mcpu ?08:35
ShadowJKoh, hm, i'm screwed then08:35
ShadowJKthe assembler complains about vpush08:37
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ShadowJKRight. as is too ancient08:59
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Passelidoes anyone know what is the difference (as character set) between ASCII text and ASCII English text ?09:02
ShadowJKASCII is english09:02
ShadowJKthere is only one ASCII charset09:02
Passelibecause i have difficulties with uploaded package to repository09:04
Passelionly difference i have found, is that debian changelog file has been ASCII English text type09:05
Passeliuploaded package does not show up in maemo repository09:05
Passeliby difference i mean differences between previous package, which shows up in repo just fine09:06
Passelirunning dch command inside scratchbox complains about that file character set is not utf-809:08
Passelibut i cannot change the character set of the changelog09:08
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pupnikPasseli: i wish i knew what to tell you09:58
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johnxRST38h, ok, you're right: they should have just stuck with OSS10:14
Stskeepsmorning johnx10:15
johnxmornin' Stskeeps10:15
johnxI still haven't learned git :)10:15
Stskeepsusing UsingGitorious or something?10:16
johnxI looked at it, but it kind of blew my mind10:16
Stskeepsyeah, it's like that at first10:16
johnxso I decided to hack on other stuff tonight10:16
johnxI'll just put the patches up on my site and link them in #mer10:16
johnx...for now at least10:17
Stskeepsjrocha and feimondora sit in here so you can probably talk to them with improvements10:18
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pupnik  LCD Test - RGB order and orientation for subpixel hinting decision11:08
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Corsachmhm does someone with a n900 could answer a simple question: is there a limit in term of received sms/mms/im messages (besides the internal memory capacity)11:33
timelesswhat's internal memory?11:35
timelessafaik there are no translatable strings describing such an error state11:35
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timelesshowever IME if your rootfs is full you may experience dataloss in related areas. and certainly if there's insufficient ram to manage billions of SMSs...11:36
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Corsacyeah if the sms are stored in the main memory I guess the limit is high enough not to worry11:37
Corsacbut in my SE the sms aren't stored there, I have plenty of room available but still I can't store more than few dozen sms11:37
Corsac(which just plain sucks)11:37
timelessconsider 1GB of VM and 30GB of storage. hypothetically if you manage to only receive 1byte sms's you wouldn't beable tomreach all of them11:38
timelessi doubt the people here w/ n900s have intentionally stress tested inbound sms11:38
timelessi certainly haven't had time to do that11:39
timelesswhat's an SE?11:40
Corsacif there's an hard limit maybe it's noted somewhere on it, though11:40
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Corsac(except it's not on my SE, but...)11:40
timelessanyway my flight's about to depart11:41
timelessremember that most don't have official boxes as afaik none have been officially sold11:42
Stskeepstimeless: have a good flight11:42
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timelessthanks. it's a very strange flight11:42
timelessi'm in vienna but i think most of the people aboard speak ivrit11:43
SpeedEvilCorsac: that means it's leaving them on the SIM - not moving them off onto the phone11:43
SpeedEvilSIMs can store from about 10 up to hundreds of SMS11:43
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timelessoh, i don't think our device supports storing SMSs to the SIM11:44
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timelessagain, i haven't seen strings for that. unlike the camera which has storage options11:45
timelessbye all11:45
SpeedEvilThat's actually a not uncommon use-case - storing SMSs on the SIM so you can move them between phones11:47
CorsacI'm not sure it stores them on SIM, but it'd be worth a try11:48
adeusI think phone switch handles the sms:s as well11:50
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SpeedEvilCorsac: well - it's one trivial reason for SMS limit of a dozen or two11:50
SpeedEvilCorsac: many phones have options as to what you do with incoming ones11:51
Corsacit's a bit more than that, but looking at the net, all SE phones seem to have that sms limit11:51
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mk8sorry ... which version os scratchbox is used for maemo5? If read a lots of time ago that is the 2.0 while on my system the version is 1.0.16 .... Is this correct?12:23
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gaspamk8: from beta2, yes.12:32
mgedminmk8: sb2 is a potential replacement for sb1 that works somewhat differently12:34
mgedminI think it's still in beta12:35
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mk8ok ... thanks .... exist a image (VMware, VirtualBox, etc..) for maemo5 ready to download?12:47
gaspamgedmin: sb2 was already used for SDKs until 5beta2...12:51
gaspa(well, I admit it's strange...)12:51
mgedminand they switched back?12:51
mgedminmaybe sb2 proved out to be not ready yet12:52
gaspamaybe, I really don't know why...12:55
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_berto_I don't know if it includes the maemo 5 sdk, though13:09
mavhcwhen are vmware releasing their vm for arm?13:09
mk8_berto_: already check ... only Diablo ... :(13:10
gaspa_berto_: i think not.13:10
johnxmavhc, I kinda figured it was more of a tech demo to lure big companies into contracting with them13:11
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lcukjohnx, everything is a techdemo13:39
wazdso, for the record, any questions for Jussi you want to ask?13:41
vesamk8: there was an vpc image somewhere13:41
crashanddiewazd: why is he so awesome?13:47
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Stskeepswazd is always awesome13:48
mk8vesa: unfortunally there is no virtualpc for linux :)13:50
* SpeedEvil wonders if the DSP could be convinced to do x86 emulation.13:50
alteregoAnything is possible, it's just about time13:51
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vesathere's a vmx file there too which opened in VMware player13:51
SpeedEvilI suspect not very well13:51
aolvesa: hmmm what distro does that have?13:51
vesait just had some links to download stuff, didn't really look that far into it as we have a working image already13:51
aolvesa: if it has ubuntu then it's perfect13:52
vesaah yes13:52
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aolI tried to do that my self but ubuntu did not want to run13:53
aolhad to change VMWare13:53
aolbut I rather used virtualPC13:53
mk8if can be open by VMware I suppose that can ve read from VirtualBox ....13:53
vesano idea mate, i'm quite a newbie here/using images in general.13:54
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aolI don't think they are interchangeable13:55
mk8ok vesa ... I will make a test as soon as possibile ...13:55
aolbut not sure though13:55
mk8aol: VirtualBox can open VMWare image13:55
mk8I already do it13:55
DantonicHi, anyone know what repos flite is located in?13:56
Dantonicjohnx, ?13:56
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ShapeshifterMh, I wonder how well syncing with google calendar will work14:01
Shapeshifteron the n90014:01
lcukShapeshifter, khertan has been working on his mcalendar/mpim software which uses google sync14:02
Shapeshifterlcuk: is that the same as the "official" one? The official calendar looks sweet for the n90014:02
gaspamk8: I lost something... have you found an image with 5beta2 ?14:03
mk8gaspa: vesa had posted a link to a virtualpc image .... I downloading it now but my internel connection is slow ....14:04
lcukShapeshifter, dont know whther the official one supports google sync14:04
Shapeshifterlcuk: I think it only does m$ exchange.14:05
gaspamk8: ok, found. but can it be opened with virtualbox?14:05
mk8I not know yet .... I will try it when I finish to download it14:05
lcukShapeshifter, then you already know the answer14:05
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gaspamk8: seems not, but it's worth giving a try.14:07
mk8gaspa: in the worst case I will start a VMWare converter to migrate from VirtualPc to VMware that can be open using virtualbox ....14:08
Shapeshifterlcuk: fyi, found out that google can be configured to mimick an exchange server for syncing tasks. nice.
lcukyou mean google is a shapeshifter too ;)14:09
Shapeshifterlcuk: ;)14:09
Shapeshifterand both google and maemo5 do "active sync" so that's another option apparently.14:09
vesamk8: there's a subdir in the package with vmware image too so if vbox can do vmware images you should be able to open it14:09
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mk8thanks vesa14:10
Shapeshifteror maybe active sync means exchange...14:10
Corsacproblem with that is to depend on an third-party server14:14
Corsacdevice2device sync seems way harder to get :/14:14
ShapeshifterCorsac: A matter of taste I would say. Some like cloud computing. And the google calendar is really usable.14:15
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Myrttilcuk: ping14:16
Corsaceven with cloud computing, I find it weird to have bluetooth, a phone and a laptop at 20cm, and having to send the data to some datacenter in the other part of the world14:16
Corsacand yes, security wise I don't like cloud computing at all14:16
Corsac(and installing a funambol server is a pain, too)14:16
Shapeshiftermh, right.14:16
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Myrttilcuk: unping, need to go14:17
Corsacapple kind-of managed to do it fine (wether by iSync or I guess iTunes)14:17
CorsacI assume there are solution on Windows too14:18
Corsacbut on Linux, it's quite a pain atm14:18
Corsacopensync/multisync is buggy14:18
SpeedEvil(not really)14:21
lcukMyrtti, damn14:21
lcukmail me liquid @ gmail14:22
Corsacsyncevolution with libsynthesis might become an usable solution, but only with evolution, so...14:22
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Shapeshifterdoesn't the ical format support all usual things? like recurring, recurring every, and those14:28
tuukkahthis is weird, from a month ago: "We have no plans of addressing the Python market. We believe the language of choice for scripting is JavaScript."
Shapeshiftertuukkah: ewww14:29
jeremiah_Javascript isn't as bad as you think14:29
Shapeshifterwhat kind of choice is that. they're completely different languages made for different purposes.14:29
Shapeshifterjeremiah_: I'm not saying it is bad, it's actually quite nifty.14:29
tuukkahcase of left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing? or pyside being only a temporary solution for maemo?14:29
lcuktuukkah, nokia has create pyside which is a version of pyqt14:30
jeremiah_Python in the client is anot a great idea if you ask me.14:30
tuukkahlcuk, i know, that's the weirdness14:30
jeremiah_Not until they fix the GIL.14:30
lcukare they talking about scripting from inside a qt app itself tho14:31
jeremiah_Most likely.14:31
tuukkahjeremiah, um, it's not about the GIL. you don't need to run a client app on multiple cores at the moment14:31
lcukthepyqt and pyside stuff is usually for creating apps using qt from outside14:31
jeremiah_tuukkah: Except when your machine is already multi core14:31
jeremiah_Like all the time14:31
Shapeshifterwell for inside stuff I would possibly agree that javascript would be just as good14:31
X-Fadejeremiah_: Not until you are going to do some serious processing.14:32
tuukkahthe ticket was about the pyqt and pyside stuff: "It is suggested that Qt support more actively PyQt which is currently maintained by a third party Riverbank Computing."14:32
X-Fadejeremiah_: A desktop applet will never have that problem.14:32
jeremiah_Sure it will14:32
jeremiah_If the OS delegates to different core, it will14:32
lcukShapeshifter, i would suggest that using c++ itself within a qt app would be best, but what other scripted mechanisms exist.  is there an introspective runtime api available?14:33 can compile and run code dynamically using any of its supported languages14:33
X-Fadejeremiah_: Any python app using 100% of a core needs to be killed anyway.14:33
jeremiah_X-Fade: True =]14:33
lcuknot really python specific that14:34
lcukbut the 100% might be needed for something14:34
lcukso might simply be running at fullspeed14:34
X-Fade* for longer periods of time14:34
tuukkahbesides, you can always fork instead of starting a thread :-)14:34
Shapeshifterlcuk: I think the point would be to use it like lua is used in game engines, like MEL in used in maya etc.14:34
lcukmmm what about a movie player or something14:34
lcukdecoding massive amounts of data for hours14:34
lcukor games14:35
Shapeshifterlcuk: for using already made functions in an app dynamically without recompiling and such.14:35
jeremiah_What you need is something that efficiently does concurrent programming14:35
jeremiah_Python is not that language.14:35
X-Fadelcuk: Sure, write your low level video decoder in python ;)14:35
lcukShapeshifter, i agree14:35
lcukbut even something like a C++ interface would theoretically be feasible14:35
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Shapeshifterlcuk: so I guess for that reason javascript is sufficient.14:35
lcukdont the best game engines have c++ internal scripting ;)14:35
lcuklol X-Fade the argument doesnt matter about the language used tho14:36
jeremiah_lcuk: No - emacs scripting!14:36
tuukkahdunno if there's going to be pyjavascript?14:36
jeremiah_(If you consider emacs "gaming")14:36
X-FadeAnyway, most pyton on the devices load C libraries or call other low level stuff.14:36
Shapeshiftertuukkah: there's no point int that, really.14:36
tuukkahactually, i suppose there is as you can do firefox extensions in python14:36
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tuukkahwhat about javascriptqt14:37
jeremiah_It would be cool to have some kind of VM where you could write you language of choice and it gets translated into device language.14:37
lcukjeremiah_, see gcc ;)14:37
jeremiah_Without compiling14:37
tuukkahShapeshifter, right, that one14:37
lcukthen see mono/.net14:37
jeremiah_No thank you.14:38
jeremiah_Patent trap14:38
tuukkahtranslating is compiling14:38
jeremiah_But there is Parrot.14:38
tuukkahit may be a jit though14:38
lcukand jeremiah using gcc to create a .so, symlinking it in with a framework and using it is something that could be done v quickly14:38
jeremiah_lcuk: Doesn't Vala do that?14:38
SpeedEvilUnless it's interpreting. (translating)14:39
lcukprobably, but compilation from vala to c then to object code takes an age14:39
jeremiah_oh, didn't know that. :(14:39
lcukits the vala to c one on device thats the longest14:39
lcukvala is most similar to early c++ (c with objects)14:39
X-FadeBut that is not a run time penalty.14:39
lcuknot at all14:39
X-FadeSo tough luck for the developer, but great for the user ;)14:40
lcukbut then you are back to using python and other scripting languages14:40
Dantonicthank you lcuk14:40
Dantonicthat's the link I needed :P14:40
tuukkahi might guess that the ovi sdk grows to encompass what an app needs, and then you can write your app in javascript14:40
lcukDantonic, whick link?14:40
Dantonicto flite14:40
lcukahhh cool yw14:41
lcukscripting languages work really well as glue14:41
jeremiah_Speaking of python:
lcuki remember on the amiga having arexx interface in app specifically for scripting14:42
Shapeshifterbut there are no bindings for javascript14:42
Shapeshifterare there?14:42
tuukkahis there any reports about what the ovi sdk actually contains? that is, is there something like xulrunner implemented in webkit and qt?14:42
lcukits something that isnt quite so standardized or pushed - though dbus should be that interface14:42
X-Fadetuukkah: Nokia webruntime?14:43
tuukkahX-Fade, yes, if that's what the ovi sdk targets14:44
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tuukkah"Quim is on the record (somewhere, I forget where) saying that WRT isn't on Maemo yet."14:48
tuukkah"it's unclear if the release of the Ovi SDK (whenever it is) will coincide with the release of WRT for Maemo." - this is Jaffa on talk14:49
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tuukkahok, i think this clears it up :-)
tuukkahinteresting times14:54
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tuukkahso you can use web technologies, or add some pyqt or qt for the parts that wrt doesn't have14:56
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tuukkah"should i learn gtk or qt?" - no, you should learn javascript14:58
jeremiah_tuukkah: Start with Qt, add some javascript for certain uses.14:58
tuukkahby the way, i wrote my first pyqt app yesterday and was a bit disappointed in that it's much less pythonic than pygtk14:59
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tuukkahlike i can't connect to 'activated', i need to connect to QtCore.SIGNAL('activated (const QModelIndex &)')15:01
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tuukkahalso, can't set a table header as "Package", need to set it as QtCore.QVariant("Package")15:03
Corsacmaybe Nokia expects that, at the end of  maemo summit, there'll be a lot of "widgets"/apps available for all the n900 buyers :)15:04
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lcuktuukkah, i wonder if pyside will be similar15:04
lcukor if they will aim to integrate with python better15:05
jeremiah_ Corsac: I suspect you're onto something there. :)15:05
Corsacpeople coding during the summit, and monday, oct 12, tada! product launch15:06
Corsachmhm, though it might be easier to code while already having the device15:06
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: ping?15:07
* Corsac flips a coin15:07
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RST38hmooo all15:11
tuukkahlcuk, hope they will. "We will however maintain API compatibility with PyQt, at least for the initial release." should perhaps take a look at these:
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MaceN8x0hello and good morning15:15
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tuukkahif it tells something, they've converted from this "self.exitAction.triggered.connect(QtGui.qApp.quit)" to this "self.connect(self.exitAction, QtCore.SIGNAL("triggered()"), QtGui.qApp.quit)" :-/15:15
MaceN8x0Stskeeps, how goes mer?15:16
MaceN8x0lcuk get a good liq gui going for you guys yet? :)15:16
lcukliqbase library is coming along at a tremendous rate15:17
lcukit successfully managed to control the massive interaction and allowed the crowds to work with it exactly as required :)15:18
MaceN8x0so that's a no? :)15:18
lcukit was quick, slick and did everything requested :) we were able to create a really responsive gaming speed controller15:18
MaceN8x0that sounded like a wikipedia entry lcuk ;)15:19
lcukits a yes15:19
lbttuukkah: although : cMgr.connect(self.exitAction, self.triggered(), QtGui.qApp.quit) would be better15:19
StskeepsMaceN8x0: works okay, we finally got the WPA entry bug fixed yesterday15:19
StskeepsMaceN8x0: so we can move ahead on 0.16 release15:19
lcukive got calendar and torch and sketching working nicely and the n900 allows me to do even more than before15:19
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lcukand theres is an AMAZING liqflow app which is so touch responsive its a dream15:19
MaceN8x0doesn't n900 + maemo5 have opengles?15:20
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tuukkahlbt, so you mean the QtCore.SIGNAL stuff is good?15:20
lcukMaceN8x0, it does15:20
MaceN8x0so are you able to use hw 3D woth opengles?15:20
lcukhave a look there tho15:20
lbtI like the connect() semantics15:20
lcuki will do soon15:20
MaceN8x0and liq?15:20
lcuki want rotation for widgets anyway15:20
lbtthey are about establishing a relationship15:20
* lcuk is watching javispedro closely15:20
lbtI think there's too much noise in the syntax above though :)15:21
MaceN8x0that sounds awesome15:21
MaceN8x0will be nice to see what you do with it15:21
lbtbut I like something to act on both the sender and recvr...15:21
lcukyeah im actively seeking a way to allow the widgets in the playground rotate with the accel to always point downwards15:21
MaceN8x0make an office app with cups  support and a liq interface15:21
lbtnot have the sender tell itself what to send to...15:21
lcukMaceN8x0, the postcard app is crying out for that!15:21
lbtthe 3rd party view works better in the abstract/general case IMHO15:22
tuukkahlbt, what's the cMgr stuff?15:22
lbtwell, it's OO15:22
lcukthats the full presentation15:22
lbtso you can't just do connect()15:22
lcukthe calendar and liqflow look amazing in huge display!15:22
lbtnotionally it's the mainloop connection manager15:22
* lcuk loves how fast and slick the image viewer is15:22
lcukliqbase kinetics slide on superbutter on n90015:23
lcukimageselect/viewer *15:23
lbtone huge way that python slaps java is by not pretending that every damn thing is an object15:23
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tuukkahlbt, i see. however, in such a central feature of the platform, i think it'd be important to have concise syntax - such as the old one15:23
lbtfully agree15:24
lbtI don't mind Qt.connect() though15:24
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tuukkahmy issue was more with the "QtCore.SIGNAL('activated (const QModelIndex &)')" part. that all should just be 'activated' in python15:25
MaceN8x0lcuk,  nice calendar15:25
lbtooh... Red Arrows just flew over .....   low and in formation15:25
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mgedminlbt: actually, in python everything is an object, more so than in java (no primitives, no weird class-object syntax), but I understand what you mean15:26
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MaceN8x0you going to make a liq mer ui?15:26
lbtmgedmin: yes15:26
lbttuukkah: pyside is new... Nokia are making noises about community contributions15:27
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lbtwe can fix it15:27
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MaceN8x0can hardly hear this15:27
tuukkahi wonder if it would even be possible to infer the former syntax from the latter15:27
MaceN8x0all this tech crap you guys have and nobody can get a better camcorder? :)15:28
lbtit gets interesting when there are parameters passed ..15:28
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lbtnot thought about it for a bit15:28
MaceN8x0nobody had an n96? hehe15:28
lbtIIRC there are late-binding things and runtime type issues15:28
wazdliqtorch is absolutely brilliant in it's apotheosis :D15:29
tuukkahlbt, yeah :-/15:29
lcukwazd :) it is art lol15:29
MaceN8x0wow. don't ever hire this guy to cam a bootleg movie15:30
lcukits hello world too15:30
lcukthe simplest liq* app possible15:30
lcukshows the ropes and lights the way15:30
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tuukkahthere's a pyqt talk at the summit, perhaps we'll know more then:
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wazdlcuk: does it forces backlight to turn on completely?15:36
RST38hmoo wazd15:36
wazdRST38h: heya15:36
lcukwazd, it just shows a bright screen, if theres bugs send patches15:37
wazdlcuk: cause you know, in dark room light sensor will dim the backlight as much as possible15:37
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lcukwazd, it isnt a big deal really - i use it goin to bed lol15:38
lcukand i can see with it15:38
lcukif someone has a problem, they can send a patch - its the idea of it15:38
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lcukbbiab tho15:39
wazdlcuk: I can't I can only suggest :)15:39
lcukofc :)15:39
* lcuk loves suggestions15:39
lcukbut i have lots to do myself - principally finding a job15:39
lcukwhich i really hope does not involve me stopping maemo work15:40
wazdlcuk: you can apply to nokia :)15:40
jjocome work for maemo ;)15:40
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lcukwazd, the roles require 2 major things - .masters degrees and .fi  whilst i can go anywhere, the family have once again asserted they cannot leave manchester (jacob has learning difficulties and is set in school), so whatever role would need to manage two houses.15:43
crashanddiewazd: I didn't see any jobs in Nokia or Maemo recently15:43
lcukthere are some crashanddie15:43
crashanddies/recently/recently, that had lcuk's requirements/15:43
infobotcrashanddie meant: wazd: I didn't see any jobs in Nokia or Maemo recently, that had lcuk's requirements15:43
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X-Fadecrashanddie: 33 jobs found15:44
crashanddieX-Fade: read up ^15:44
lcuki was reading hte jobs site:
Mace_N8x0damn phone is being a whore15:44
tuukkahlcuk, you know finland is known for having the best schools in the world :-)15:44
X-Fadecrashanddie: Yeah, lag..15:44
crashanddietuukkah: english schools?15:44
tuukkahlcuk, in helsinki there are english languages schools as well15:44
lcuktuukkah, if someone can convince my girlfriend  then i would jump at the chance :$15:45
lcukbut no job would pay me to hold 2 locations open15:45
wazdI think master degree is not a big issue15:45
lcuki dont either15:45
lcukand i put 4 candidate jobs to the side which looks good and had the sorts of roles and skills i am strong with15:46
lcukbut its the family issue :)15:46
wazdno, I mean I don't think that they won't take you onboard if you won't have master degree but will have nice portfolio15:46
glasspaylevel in finland sucks anyways15:46
crashanddielcuk: most reasonable companies would offer you a decent relocation package, especially if the family has to come with15:46
crashanddieglass: that was more my thought15:47
thuxsalaries are also low here and taxes high (fi)15:47
lcukcrash, relocation only comes if the family wants to be relocated15:47
crashanddielcuk: they will if you have no other choice15:47
lcukotherwise its called something else15:47
crashanddieplus it's just moving countries ffs, it builds character15:47
glassthux: and living and food is world top level..15:47
crashanddielcuk: how old is your oldest?15:47
wazdglass: nothing is more expensive than Moscow :D15:48
tuukkahumm, aren't the salaries comparable to anywhere else?15:48
lcuk14 nearly 1515:48
wazdglass: so I don't care :D15:48
crashanddieglass: rent is higher than london or SF?15:48
glasscrashanddie: i think you could find small areas where even that would apply in finland15:48
crashanddielcuk: I had 4 different countries in my passport by that time15:48
glasscrashanddie: you can buy a house for pretty cheap though. if you don't care that it's 3 hours from helsinki15:48
lcuki relally must go, i will read this lot properly later15:49
crashanddieglass: how much is a house in helsinki?15:49
tuukkahtrue, after the taxes you have less money left but you also need to spend less as you don't have to pay for kids going to school etc.15:49
crashanddieglass: 3 bedroom house in nice area?15:49
thuxmany works here between 3-4k e in ict industry15:49
thuxa month15:49
crashanddieafter tax?15:49
glasscrashanddie: a million? if you're talking about a house and not an apartment.  depends highly of course on location in finland..15:49
RST38hwazd: not true actually, but anyway :)15:49
glasscrashanddie: but a house in shithole town in finland is like 60ke15:50
wazdRST38h: Is Tokyo more expensive? )15:50
RST38hwazd: Sweden is afaik15:50
crashanddieglass: a house in a shithole anywhere is dirt cheap15:50
RST38hAnd some other nordic countries as well15:50
glassi think helsinki is quite often right after moscow on "most expensive places on earth"15:50
wazd3k E is pretty nice15:50
crashanddiebefore or after tax?15:51
RST38hwazd: Also the stats you are talking about have been computed for executive-level expats having to live in Moscow15:51
wazdwell, even 2.5 K is awesome :)15:51
crashanddiethat's what I'm on and I'm 23yo15:51
RST38hwazd: They include a Volvo with a personal driver, if I remmber correctly ;)15:51
glasswazd: it's not awesom if same job in germany would net you double15:51
RST38hglass: but taxes?15:52
crashanddie4ke BT is pretty low tbh15:52
glassRST38h: but taxes in finland are higher than anything i can think of so15:52
crashanddieespecially if you get hit with something along the lines of 60% tax15:52
glassi make ~3ke taxed, i get about 2000e to hand15:52
RST38hglass: remember, .ru taxesare 13% flat15:52
RST38h30% isn' bad15:52
wazdI'm 21 and I can't find a job for more than 800 euros :)15:52
tuukkahso do you guys know of some research doing these comparisons?15:52
wazdWith all my skills and stuff15:53
crashanddiewazd: sure you can, just move to the correct city15:53
glassRST38h: also, vodka etc doesn't cost anything in russia15:53
glassRST38h: 10e for cheap 0.5l here15:53
threshcheap vodka, true15:53
wazdcrashanddie: I can't leave the country yet15:53
threshgood vodka, i dunno15:53
threshwazd: moscow?15:53
RST38hwazd; that can be remedied, a friend needs a reasonable website designe15:53
wazdthresh: I'm already here :)15:53
crashanddiewazd: I'm 23 and I'm on the average that glass was talking about, lol so yeah, there's jobs out there, you just need to move out15:54
threshit's weird, we got plenty of positions (programmers, though) in Korolev15:54
crashanddiewazd: why can't you move out?15:54
RST38hglass: AFAIK you have got decent wines, cheap15:54
threshfor a lot more than 800E15:54
glassRST38h: hahahahahahahahahahah15:54
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glassRST38h: look, a wine that's 1.5e in spain is 7e here15:54
RST38hglass: But I am only telling what I have been told, not drinking and all15:54
wazdcrashanddie: army dep don't want me to leave so fast :)15:54
crashanddiewazd: their authority stops at the border15:54
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wazdRST38h: well, I'm doing some stuff like this (that's the only thing that brigns me money) but I wish I had a full-time job :(15:55
glassbut yeah, norway is more expensive than finland15:55
crashanddieyeah, but you get paid shitloads more too15:55
crashanddiedon't forget, salaries are in direct relation to the cost of life15:55
wazdcrashanddie: their authority stops *me* at the border and brings me home :D15:55
glassand if you're in southern norway it's not such a long trip to denmark15:55
crashanddiestop thinking in terms of "omfg that country is expensive", just make sure you ask for the correct amount of money so you can maintain the same lifestyle15:56
glasshehe yeah15:56
Stskeepspoland for the tax and food prices15:56
RST38hwazd: Programmer jobs are not that hard to find in Moscow. They pay about $1500...$400015:56
threshisnt poland boring as hell?15:56
Stskeepsthresh: plenty of beautiful women15:56
RST38hwazd: So, start learning C++ ;)15:56
threshStskeeps: ok, fine for me15:57
wazdRST38h: well, designers are much more widespread15:57
glassthresh: poland is in direct connection to middle europe. that's not boring :D15:57
crashanddieif I wanted to have the same lifestyle as I have now, I could move to some godforsaken town in Texas and live with $30k a year, if I want to have the same lifestyle in SF, I need $120k15:57
tuukkahcrashanddie, one thing to remember is to account for travelling abroad and the currency exchange rates15:57
wazdRST38h: every schoolboy can work for food so it's really hard to find something worthy15:57
threshyou cant got clubbing in some next country ...15:57
RST38hwazd: that is not entirely correct15:58
wazdRST38h: thst's wat I see :)15:58
crashanddietuukkah: I'm european and my job includes travelling around the world continuously, trust me, if there's one thing I know about, it's currencies ;)15:58
RST38hwazd: because people with expertise and no brainbugs are hard to come by15:58
threshdesigners and photographers <- what moscow is made of15:58
tuukkahgo work in a cheap country and you can never travel back home. whereas if you work in an expensive country such as finland, you can travel abroad cheaply15:58
RST38hwazd: you usually get either a complete newbie reading the Hacker magazine or something15:59
wazdRST38h: Art.Lebedev wanted to give me like 500 bucks a month :)15:59
RST38hwazd: Fuck Lebedev15:59
wazdRST38h: And I was like, meh, c ya dudes :)15:59
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tuukkahthere's helsinki at 29th most expensive city16:00
tuukkahor is that the quality of life ?-)16:00
RST38hwazd: have you done any polygraphy work?16:01
tuukkahhighest in the uk is london at 39th16:01
wazdRST38h: well... I guess not16:01
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wazdRST38h: My school's logo on the uniform doesn't count I think :)16:02
RST38hwazd: nah, I am afraid :(16:02
threshwell if you're really good, isnt it better to work on yourself?16:02
wazdRST38h: I think I can do basicaly everything except art and 3D16:02
RST38hwazd: Could you send me some likeness of a portfolio? I will forward it to a friend of mine16:03
wazdthresh: I work for myself now :)16:03
wazdRST38h: well, you can lik him to my blog for example, that usually works :)16:04
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RST38hwazd: They basically need website UI design, may also need logos, etc16:04
wazdRST38h: since 99.9% of images are drawn by me :)16:04
RST38hwazd: got it.16:04
crashanddielik to your blog?16:04
wazdRST38h: oh, and no complex Flash stuff. Yet :)16:05
wazdRST38h: like games and so on :)16:05
RST38hwazd: they ain't using it, and they have got the PHP guy already16:05
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wazdRST38h: wow, just the design16:06
wazdRST38h: Am I in Heavens? :D16:06
RST38hwazd: Well, you may end up doing php as well.16:06
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RST38hwazd: Which, IMHO, is a good thing really16:06
wazdRST38h: I'm not very good at PHP16:07
wazdRST38h: I can do it, but slow and swearing :)16:07
threshno php programmer is any good at php16:07
thresh(as well as everything else, actually)16:07
* RST38h programs in PHP every now and then16:08
* RST38h now feels disqualified from humanity. Gotta find a wall to throw myself at =)16:08
RST38hwazd: What email should I give?16:09
ccookeRST38h: there's nothing wrong with programming in php...16:10
ccooke... if there isn't an alternative16:10
wazdRST38h: I think would be fine16:11
RST38hccooke: Like ASP.NET for example...16:11
* RST38h cackles evilly16:11
ccookeRST38h: I said "an alternative", not "a festering wound upon the computing industry" ;-)16:12
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tuukkah2009 study: helsinki 7th most expensive, 12th highest wages, 14th highest purchasing power. the rest is not in rankings, but interesting read with weekly working hours etc.16:12
ccookephp is *merely* inconsistent, unreliable and horrible to code large proects in :-016:12
crashanddiePHP was a good language, they're just plagued by bad coders, and the devs/PM listen to those bad developers too much16:12
ccookecrashanddie: PHP has been fundamentally flawed since its inception. It *does* actually get better each release, on average16:13
crashanddieccooke: I hear what you're saying, but still believe you're wrong16:13
RST38hccooke: you are not supposed to code anything big in php16:13
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ccookebut it still suffers from the paradigm: "There are many ways to do it, and some of them will turn out to have been utterly wrong after six months"16:14
RST38hAs to inconsistency or unreliability, I haven't really found much16:14
RST38hYes, PHP is easy to code in and this attracts stupid people with "ideas"16:14
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RST38hThat is not PHP's fault though16:14
ccookeRST38h: I may be a little bitter; spent the last months coding in PHP because it was the only language some of the other devs knew and management Decided.16:15
ccookefew months, even16:15
ccookeThankfully, I'll be working in Ruby for my next bit of dev work. *so* much nicer16:15
crashanddieccooke: and as a moderator of fclp and zce, I approve of my statement16:16
RST38hnot sure about it :)16:16
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ccookecrashanddie: there are things I like about php - quite a lot, actually. The annoyances are a little high on my list right now, but given six months I'll likely be back to normal ambivalence :-)16:17
crashanddieccooke: tbh, I've given up on PHP16:17
crashanddieI use it for small stuff, on an old PHP 4 installation16:17
crashanddiePHP 5 is when I drew a line16:17
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RST38hwhat changed in php5?16:18
* RST38h uses php516:18
crashanddietheir OO model16:18
ccookebut there are some absolutely... well. I recall one thing from this project: A two order of magnitude increase in performance, swapping every use of array_key_exists() for the (also built-in, almost identical) isset()16:18
ccookecrashanddie: that's one of the things I like about it, actually :-)16:18
RST38hah...I ignore the oo model :)16:18
ccookealthough it's missing a few bits and pieces16:18
crashanddiebasically,  they've created an OO model that allowed for people who don't understand OO. People who would use Java or C++ without ever using extends or implements keywords16:18
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lbtfiferboy: you around16:19
* RST38h never uses those, they are not present in c++ =)16:19
crashanddie: then16:19
crashanddieMost PHP OO programmers just want to wrap procedural code in classes, create 20 objects at the start, and call useless static methods16:19
lbthave you looked at django?16:20
lbtit's php with a brain16:20
* RST38h isn't sure he wants brain in his PHP16:21
lbts/with/for people with/16:21
infobotlbt meant: it's php for people with a brain16:21
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ccookecrashanddie: heh. The project I've just come from is OO from the start. The php5 model does work rather well for it.16:22
lbtI think php is a bit like perl16:22
RST38hMek: Somebody is violating his NDA ;)16:22
ccookelbt: there's a reason for that :-)16:22
lbtawesome language... lots of dipshit programmers16:23
RST38hlbt: all C-derived scripting languages are a bit like each other16:23
ccookelbt: php was originally a perl script16:23
RST38hAs to shitty/awesome languages, you can write good code in BASIC, if you know what you are doing16:23
ccookeRST38h: hey, don't knock basic. Some variants of it were great... Acorn/BBC basic, for instance :-)16:24
glass_qbasic was great.   great in the sense that it came with msdos.  (it took us a while to find friends who could copy us a c compiler back in the day..)16:24
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glass_and it included a pretty good help too16:25
ccookeI was given a copy of quickbasic by a work experience place I went to. That was fun :-)16:25
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ccookealthough I think qbasic was actually more capable by the end16:26
glass_ccooke: we just were given the possibility to bring home old coax cables :\16:26
glass_though, for home lanning they worked16:26
ccookeglass_: I was very lucky. It was a place with no real programmers who used a lot of PCs with DOS programs to interface with some unix machines16:27
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glass_also we were given tasks a 14 year old could figure out would have been better to have scripted rather than to be done by hand16:27
ccookeMy first experience of Unix, actually :-)16:27
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ccookeI ended up writing a menuing system for them - text based, nothing complex. But since they had nobody who could do it, they were very happy16:27
glassalso one of those work experience places was the only place i've seen sco unix used16:28
fiferboylbt: I'm here16:28
* RST38h remembers the sudden freedom of knowing that you can walk into any campus lab and all your data will be at your fingertips instantly16:28
jeremiah_Sco UNIX used to be quite popular.16:28
RST38hIt actually felt way better than carrying a laptop or a tablet16:28
glassjeremiah_: yeah but we were running linux at home by then. also, they didn't seem to know how to remote use it16:28
ccookeThey used MS Xenix at a college I went to :-)16:29
ccooke(which is what became SCO)16:29
RST38hjeremiah: "popular" in the sense "widely despised"?16:29
ccookeRST38h: real SCO, not the Canopy group who bought the name later16:29
jeremiah_RST38h: Before it was bought by patent trolls, it was considered quite 'open'16:29
jeremiah_I think it was Caldera before16:29
RST38hjeremiah: open, shmopen, it was dumb16:30
ccookeCaldera were a Linux distributor who bought real-SCO16:30
ccookethe Canopy group then bought Caldera and renamed it SCO16:30
RST38hjeremiah: you could crash a running program by doing "more <program-binary>"16:30
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RST38hjeremiah: the install process had to be done from ~50 floppies because the CDROM drivers never worked right16:30
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lbtSCO was crap but nice16:31
RST38hjeremiah: You had freaking Microsoft C and CodeView for developer tools16:31
* jeremiah_ reading
jeremiah_It really did come from Xenix, wow.16:31
ccookeIIRC Xenix/SCO Unix was one of the first Unixes on x8616:31
RST38hit did16:31
RST38hcooke: there were a few others16:31
RST38hMinix is one ;)16:32
ccookeindeed :-)16:32
jeremiah_That is what Linus copied. :)16:32
lbtSCO was very popular with small businesses though16:32
jeremiah_lbt: It was, especially in the US16:32
ccookelbt: cheap hardware16:32
jeremiah_It had lots of customers, for a while anyway.16:32
RST38hlbt: It was government certified16:32
RST38hlbt: We couldn't legally use anything but SCO, that is why we had to suffer16:33
lbtI ported xlib menus to emacs 18 on SCO16:33
jeremiah_Once Red Hat came around and the UNIX copyright wars part 2 showed up, people fled.16:33
RST38hBesides, x.25 boards only had sco drivers16:33
ccookeThe college I went to was pretty average: a mid-range 486 (we're talking 1994, here) with around 30 dumb terminals plugged in16:33
RST38hjeremiah: People fled because SCO sucked.16:33
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RST38hjeremiah: And they actually fled to BSDs first, except for poor souls whose use of SCO was mandated16:34
jeremiah_Well, BU moved from SCO to Red Hat anyway.16:34
jeremiah_Which was pretty cool.16:34
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crashanddieccooke & RST38h: there's only one good reason to be programming in PHP these days16:35
crashanddieccooke & RST38h:
RST38hjeremiah: The SCO vs Linux war came much later, when SCO was already running dry16:35
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jeremiah_heh, mod_perl FTW!16:35
ccookecrashanddie: It's a good fit for small-scale, heavily template based projects.16:36
jeremiah_Its a templating language, based on perl and C.16:36
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RST38hjeremiah: BTW, at that time (1993-1999) I would be really scared of using Linux in production. The same RedHat kernel-paniced on failed name lookups16:36
jeremiah_RST38h: Which kinda proves SCO didn't suck _that much_ then16:36
RST38hjeremiah: shitty networking, jerky scheduler16:36
crashanddieschedular still isn't fixed, tbh16:37
RST38hjeremiah: Well you had NetBSD/FreeBSD that worked very very well16:37
jeremiah_The BSDs have always had a pretty reputable TCP stack16:37
ccookeRST38h: er... 1993 I'll agree with easily, but 1999? I was using linux in production in 1998, and the only reason I wasn't doing so earlier is that's when I started working :-)16:37
RST38hcrashanddie: I used to bet that I can recognize a Linux machine by how responsive my ftp session is ;)16:37
crashanddieRST38h: lmao16:38
RST38hccooke: Well, in 1999 it was way better than in 1993 :)16:38
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jeremiah_In 1993 it was two years old16:38
RST38hccooke: But if you wanted a computer you could forget about maintaining, that was FreeBSD16:38
ccookeRST38h: of course it was! We're not talking about Hurd, here ;-)16:38
jeremiah_And that is when debian was born16:38
crashanddieRST38h: net* > *16:38
RST38hcrashanddie: Or NetBSD, especially if you had weird hardware16:38
RST38hIt is funny how Linux (always FUDing BSD world for "fragmentation") broke into so many distros, while BSD forks are still very few and focused on distinct purposes16:40
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ccookeRST38h: I'd read that as a simple popularity indicator16:42
RST38hyes, that too16:42
ccookethere are a roughly comparable number of big-name Linux and BSD variants16:42
ccookebut Linux gets tons of hobbyist and optimist spinoffs. BSD has a few, too - just far fewer.16:42
RST38hnot really comparable16:43
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RST38hBSD: Net,Free,Open. Linux: Slackware,Debian,RedHat,SUSE,Ubuntu,Gentoo,Centos,Mandriva,Fedora,Xandros,etc16:44
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Mace_N8x0RST38h, that is a short list you have there16:45
RST38hYep, I missed about as many as I listed16:45
ccookeRST38h: Debian, RedHat, SUSE, Ubuntu. The rest are parts of the same project. And there are many more BSDs than that, too :-)16:45
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ccookegah, missed a sentence16:45
Mace_N8x0ccooke, hm. far fewer than linux distros16:45
RST38hccooke: No, a fork is a fork16:45
ccookeparts of the same project or hobbyist/niche/etc.16:45
ccookeFedora is not a fork of redhat16:46
Mace_N8x0linux is what is wrong with open source16:46
RST38hccooke: but it is far enough from redhat16:46
RST38hso is centos16:46
Mace_N8x0forgot freenas ;)16:46
RST38hYou missed Slackware and Gentoo16:46
ccookeRST38h: no, fedora is Redhat+x16:46
Mace_N8x0that's a bsd based distro isnt it?16:46
RST38hok, let us disqualify Fedora16:46
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RST38hMace: well, it's linux16:46
Mace_N8x0i  thought freenas was nbsd based16:47
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ccookeCentos *is* redhat. 100% binary compatible, just rebranded.16:47
Mace_N8x0or am i thinking of something else?16:47
RST38hdisqualifying CentOS16:47
RST38hThe rest you will have trouble disqualifying though16:48
Mace_N8x0disqualify maemo?16:48
RST38hSUSE/ubuntu are definitely NOT Debian16:48
ccookeI don't need to - the rest I'm basically calling "hobbyist or niche"16:48
RST38hMacer: I do not think maemo and android qualify as distros16:48
ccookeMandriva, actually, is probably still big enough to be counted as major16:48
ccookeSlackware isn't.16:48
alteregoMaemo does, IMO, android, not so much.16:48
RST38hMacer: they are applications of a certain distro16:48
Mace_N8x0ubuntu is an obvious fork16:48
Mace_N8x0RST38h, why not? ;)16:48
Mace_N8x0fair enough16:49
Mace_N8x0mer ;)16:49
ccookeyeah, ubuntu's a fork.16:49
Mace_N8x0i guess mer = ubuntu16:49
RST38hAngstrom/Familiar are probably separate distros though16:49
Mace_N8x0(sort of)16:49
ccookeMace_N8x0: is it really that close?16:50
Mace_N8x0i suppose16:52
Mace_N8x0either way, linux does tend to fragment over petty disputes16:52
Stskeepswe rape ubuntu a bit16:52
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Mace_N8x0typical linux dev means disputes are settled with a "fuck you then" fork16:53
Stskeepsbut yeah, we're just a pinning repo on top of ubuntu technically speaking16:53
Mace_N8x0why not call it merbuntu?16:54
Mace_N8x035676555678778 more users if you do that :)16:54
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* Mace_N8x0 thinks of "the debian foundation"16:55
Mace_N8x0never mind16:55
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Wooly_hey guys, just after a little bit of assistance getting a gstreamer pipe into an application widget, rather than the full window. Anyone about to take a look at the code?17:20
RST38hAnyone from Nokia here?17:20
RST38h(and willing to help with fb0 usage in Fremantle?)17:20
mfinkleanyone know how to programmatically turn off auto-capitalize for edit boxes?17:21
Meizirkkimfinkle, It's in Control Panel17:22
MeizirkkiText Input Settings17:22
mfinkleMeizirkki: I don't want to turn it off for the entire device, just my app17:22
mfinkleor even for a single editbox in my app17:23
Stskeepsmfinkle: there's an option for it afaik17:23
crashanddiemfinkle: the option is called String.toLower()17:26
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mfinklecrashanddie: sorry, that's not acceptable :)17:27
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Mace_N8x0anybody here a lawyer?17:32
Stskeepswhat'd you do now?17:33
Mace_N8x0killed my gf with a laserprinter17:33
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Stskeepsimpossible, those things are heavy as hell. the hulk must have done it.17:34
Mace_N8x0i was actually curious about hazardous waste ventelation requirements for biochemical vapors17:34
lcukMace_N8x0, that requires more than a lawyer afaik17:34
lcuka very specific industry specialist lawyer would be best17:34
lcukspeak with your company17:35
lcukor is it relating to your girlfriend farting17:35
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Mace_N8x0well, was just looking for epa guidelines on it17:35
crashanddieMace_N8x0: that's country specific17:36
lcukeven worse, its industry within country specific usually17:36
Mace_N8x0biochemical industries are rather similar17:36
Wooly_I have a full screened application, and want to have the contents of the webcam in a 320x240 box in the middle of the screen. If I add the gtk.DrawableArea to the VBox, and set the size request for the drawing area to be 320x240, the vertical size is maintained, but not the horizontal size. Any ideas?17:36
lcukcant you just read the epa guidelines then17:37
Mace_N8x0i figured it would be covered under superfund17:37
Mace_N8x0still looking though for applicable law17:37
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lcukWooly_, lardman started the barcode reader as a simple gtk app which displayed webcam contents in a gtk box17:37
lcukits relatively simple code (or was) and may answer your question17:37
lcuklemme just see if i can find the garage project17:38
Wooly_lcuk: It's all in C afaik, and i'm not so good with C :(17:38
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lcukahhh you didnt say that :P17:38
lcukwhich toy language then17:38
Wooly_ahh sorry, Python :D17:38
lcukwell, his new barcode app is in python afaik lol17:38
lcukso the same may still apply17:38
lcukbut i dunno where it all is17:38
Wooly_haha yeah, but I'm not sure if he's published the code yet17:38
Wooly_doesn't appear he has :(17:40
Wooly_I'm sure it's something pretty trivial, and I just cant see it17:41
lcukhave you checked whether it does the same none resizing thing when you use a standard non camera widget in the same place17:41
lcukie just a colored box17:42
lcukand if it does, you can tailor your question at general gtk devs17:42
Wooly_not yet, that sounds like a good next step :D17:42
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lcukbtw Wooly_ its the trivial little details which catch a lot of people up.  especially if you have a mostly working codebase but havent implemented something required17:48
Wooly_yeah that's true17:48
GeneralAntillesThe email from the travel agent has to be the most confusing thing I've ever seen.17:48
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lcukGeneralAntilles, especially the part about parachutes17:49
RST38hlcuk: the ones labelled "opens on impact"?17:50
lcukahhh mine said "there are 14 parachutes available for this flight on a first come, first saved basis"17:50
Stskeepsanyone know of any good minicom alternatives? :P17:50
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Stskeepsi'm getting slightly pissy at it :P17:51
RST38hnot really unless you are willing to use MSDOS =)17:51
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crashanddieRST38h: CP/M18:05
RST38hMSDOS *is* CP/M for all practical purposes18:06
RST38hBad, bad Nokia programmers18:06
RST38hHow could they screw up FBIOGET_*SCREENINFO ioctl()s???18:07
ShadowJKi hope youre not treating n900 as omapfb? ;)18:11
RST38hI am being a good boy and innocently trying to get framebuffer parameters18:11
RST38hNothing dirty18:11
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mgedminStskeeps: screen18:25
Stskeepsscreen does serial? :p18:25
mgedminspecifically, screen /dev/ttyS0 (or whatever)18:25
mgedminI was very surprised too18:25
Stskeepsi guess that's worth a tr18:25
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GeneralAntillesminicom works better than screen, honestly.18:30
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nomisGeneralAntilles: heh, I switched to screen a while ago, because it does what I usually need, without the configuration hassle minicom forces on you...  :)18:32
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lupine_85we use screen with serial lines (and telnet) quite extensively18:36
lupine_85it's nice :)18:37
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mmatthany gdb experts around?   i'm having trouble getting gdb to find my source file though it's loading the debug symbols just fine18:41
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ccookemmatth: I'm in no way an expert, but it's *possible* I can help18:43
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wazdpoor Jussi, he's completely flooded with questions :)18:46
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qwerty12X-Fade: Thanks :)18:47
Stskeepswb qwerty1218:47
qwerty12Thank you, Stskeeps18:47
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GeneralAntillesGTFO, qwerty12.18:48
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crashanddiemmatth: debugging symbols are in the executable, when you compile with -g18:48
* qwerty12 sticks his middle finger up at GeneralAntilles 18:48
crashanddiemmatth: source file needs to be either in the include path or current directory18:49
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mmatthyeah, the symbols look fine.  i can even set a breakpoint on class/function name and that works fine.  but it can't find the source to go along with it.  so when it hits the breakpoint, it doesn't show the source file.  and if i try to set the breakpoint by file:line then it reports "No source file named filename.cpp"18:50
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crashanddiemmatth: are you in the correct directory?18:51
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mmatth"pwd" from inside gdb reports that it's in the directory that my file is located18:52
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, already got a summit roommate ?18:53
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crashanddiemmatth: what's the full path?18:54
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BluesLeethe nokia n900 price difference between us and europe is not fair, 400 vs 600 euros18:56
crashanddiemmatth: and your binary is?18:57
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SpeedEvilBluesLee: do the numbers18:57
SpeedEvilBluesLee: once you count import duty and VAT - it's a wash18:57
crashanddieBluesLee: UK is £49918:57
SpeedEvilBluesLee: at least for the UK18:57
RST38hwhat import duty? what VAT?18:58
mmatthcrashanddie - well, this might be revealing.  my code is in a shared library loaded by another application18:58
BluesLeeSpeedEvil: why i should import a device which is produced in europe?18:58
SpeedEvilImport duty is what you'd have to pay if importing a n900 from the US18:58
gomiam Value Added Tax18:58
RST38hAh, you want the arrows ;))18:58
crashanddiemmatth: so you're debugging another app, right?18:58
ShadowJKVAT is 15 - 25%. kinda like sales tax18:58
SpeedEvilBluesLee: Because they have arranges their corporate structure such that it is more or less the same price all over the world.18:59
gomiam(it taxes the increase in the value of a good as it goes through the distribution chain)18:59
BluesLeeus has 1y guarantee, europe 2y18:59
GeneralAntillesmmatth, drop the socialism, then you, too, can have cheap consumer electronics.19:00
BluesLeeyesterday it was 560 euros from amazon.de19:00
BluesLeenow they raised the price19:00
crashanddiebtw, BluesLee where did you see 400?19:00
gomiamBluesLee: beware, warranty might be void if the device leaves the country you bought it in.19:00
BluesLee588.99 US-Dollar19:00
BluesLeeon amazon.com19:01
mmatthcrashanddie - right19:01
crashanddiemmatth: so where do you load gdb from?19:01
BluesLeegomiam: i know, i imported a zaurus some years ago19:01
gomiamBluesLee: mmm... it doesn't include the bluetooth headset, right?19:01
mmatthjust from the command line.  i ran gdb then in gdb i ran the commands "file application" and then "run"19:02
mmatththen ctl-c so that i could set breakpoints and "continue" so that i could hit them19:02
crashanddiemmatth: the way GDB looks for code is as follows: say you have your source file in /usr/test/source.cpp, and you run application test from /home/user/test, gdb would look for source.cpp in /home/user/usr/test/source.cpp and then /home/user/source.cpp19:02
ShadowJK"Earlier this week HTC released an update to the software on its Hero handset, but T-Mobile customers who thought their handsets were equally Heroic are being left behind." <- I hope Nokia wont allow operators to cripple n900 like that :/19:03
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Given that you can't buy it through operators...19:03
BluesLeegomiam: hmmm, for 600 euros i get this one Stereo-Headset WH-20519:03
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: my operator will sell it, and they wont cripple it19:03
SpeedEvilWhich one?19:04
crashanddieBluesLee: why don't you try to buy a device in the US, and then see how much tax you'll have to pay for when it crosses the border ;)19:04
SpeedEvilPut it in natures pocket.19:04
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BluesLeecrashanddie: i am not crazy;-)19:04
crashanddieright, then stop moaning19:05
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: Saunalahti :P19:05
BluesLeecrashanddie: maybe i will wait and get one from hk19:05
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mmatthcrashanddie:  but if i use the "directory" command to add the path to my file wouldn't it also search that location for filename.cpp?19:05
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crashanddiemmatth: only at startup of gdb, AFAIK19:07
crashanddieBluesLee: lol...19:07
crashanddieBluesLee: "yay, let's wait a year to spare $40"19:07
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crashanddieqwerty12: is your host "be there", or "bet here" ?19:07
qwerty12"be there"19:07
crashanddienice subliminal message :D19:08
BluesLeecrashanddie: it will be more than 40$ but damn ... 600 euros are a lot of money ... i think my children have to hunger for the next months19:08
crashanddieBluesLee: pasta is a great way to teach them survival skills19:08
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BluesLeecrashanddie: hehe19:09
BluesLeecrashanddie: you told me to install the sdk? is there a kind of emulator for the device nxxx?19:09
crashanddieBluesLee: yeah19:10
BluesLeecrashanddie: do you have a link, wiki...19:10
infobotThe webOS emulator doco is at
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infobotI believe you meant 'topic'?19:10
BluesLeei tried the webos19:10
crashanddie~help topic19:11
lcukinfo bot is gonna kill you guys soon19:13
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BluesLeei will go before this will happen, have to juggle19:13
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Meizirkkiinfobot, are you going to kill us?19:13
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lcukBluesLee, there is not a full n900 emulator - there is a device emulator with limited sdk functionality.  its designed to allow you to create components which will happily run on the real device19:13
lcukie it has a desktop and api compliance19:14
crashanddiewho the hell killed infobot?19:14
crashanddieHe doesn't know anything anymore19:14
crashanddie~stupid bot19:14
infobotStupid human.19:14
SpeedEvilI would guess that a 'proper' emulator would run at maybe 10% speed on the fastest of CPUs19:14
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crashanddielcuk: he left19:15
lcukhence the balllsack19:15
lcukhe hadnt when i started19:15
crashanddieI thought that was for me, lol19:15
crashanddie[17:15] <crashanddie> ~stupid bot [17:15] <infobot> Stupid human. [17:15] <lcuk> ballsack19:15
javispedroyeap, infobot knows nothing.19:16
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lcuk~lart crashanddie19:16
* infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking crashanddie's head off19:16
crashanddie~ballsack is usually a person bread and fed in northern england19:16
infobotcrashanddie: okay19:16
qwerty12infobot: you cock sucking son of a bitch19:16
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crashanddie~ballsack is usually a person bred and fed in northern england19:16
infobot...but ballsack is already something else...19:16
Meizirkkihi infobot19:16
crashanddie~forget about ballsack19:16
infoboti didn't have anything called 'about ballsack' to forget, crashanddie19:16
crashanddie~forget ballsack19:17
infobotcrashanddie: i forgot ballsack19:17
Mousey~cock is a doodle doo19:17
GeneralAntillescrashanddie you need ~no19:17
infobot...but cock is already something else...19:17
infobotthanks, Meizirkki19:17
GeneralAntillesYou can modify a factoid. . . .19:17
crashanddie~no, cock is GeneralAntilles19:17
crashanddiedoesn't work19:17
Meizirkki~say hi19:17
GeneralAntillesDrop the comma. . . .19:17
infobotNo! You quit!19:18
qwerty12~cock is also GeneralAntilles19:18
crashanddie~leave #maemo19:18
infobotqwerty12: okay19:18
infobot[cock] Copes alter-ego when he is feeling naughty.  GeneralAntilles19:18
infobotsomebody said lol was stands for Laughs Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.19:18
crashanddie~forget cock19:18
infoboti forgot cock, crashanddie19:18
* Meizirkki LOL19:18
crashanddiethat sounds so bad19:18
Mousey~forget yourbirthday19:18
infobotMousey: i didn't have anything called 'yourbirthday' to forget19:18
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javispedro~* is 4219:19
infobot...but * is already something else...19:19
infobotsomebody said * was asterisk19:19
GeneralAntillesAh, tmo trolls.19:19
Meizirkki~taco is food19:19
infobot...but taco is already something else...19:19
infobotTACO TACO TACO!19:19
javispedroI wonder if infobot's fact database is shared along channels? :P19:19
crashanddie~42 is the answer to the question: "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?"19:20
infobot...but 42 is already something else...19:20
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, it is.19:20
qwerty12~suck crashanddie's pussy19:20
* infobot sucks crashanddie's pussy's neck19:20
infobot[42] the answer to life the universe and everything, see also,_the_universe,_and_everything19:20
GeneralAntillesWe collide with other channel's factoids pretty frequently.19:20
Meizirkki~what are you talking about19:20
infobotMeizirkki: what are you talking about?19:20
infobotThe webOS emulator doco is at
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: how many channels is this bot on?19:20
infobotmethinks webos is the linux-based operating system of the Pre and later handsets by Palm, Inc.19:20
infoboti guess maemo is a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future.
* javispedro grins evilly19:20
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, it varies, but usually #maemo and #debian at a minimum.19:20
* javispedro but decides not do his evil plan19:21
crashanddieBloody hell19:21
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infobotmethinks pi is 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664821339360726024914127372458700660631558817488152092096282925409119:21
infobotMeizirkki: bitte19:21
GeneralAntillesIt must suck going through life being unable to type.19:21
infoboti heard 2+2 is 519:22
lcukmmmmmmmmmmm pi19:22
crashanddie~forget 2+219:22
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infobotmethinks android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open., or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible19:23
infobotmethinks maemo is a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future.
crashanddiethat's old19:23
lcukcant we change that to be proper meaning of android19:23
dottedmagNothing about "not really open"19:23
lcukthis googlism  is such a hijacking19:23
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bilboed-pioh man... that android description is 100% accurate :)19:24
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* javispedro wonders if changing the ~emulator link to point to a tinyurl link pointing to a porn page is good etiquette19:25
qwerty12No, but it makes for a good day19:26
lcukjavispedro, changing it to point at your emu page wouldnt be such a bad move..19:26
infobotMeizirkki: de rien19:26
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lcuk"the single best emulator for any platform ever"  and leave your link19:27
lcukpeople will either be outraged of impressed :D19:27
Meizirkkiinfobot sucks at math calculations ..19:27
javispedrolcuk: but porn would be more funny :) I can imagine someone changing the "~flashing" page to that flash page inducing epilepsy19:27
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lcukthat i agree with19:28
lcukbut mucking with the emu page effects you19:28
nomiscrashanddie: apparently infobot interprets "^" as XOR.19:29
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lcukhes not that bad19:29
javispedrohe needs better error reporting abilities tho.19:29
RST38hjavispedro: Changing all links to the tubgirl usually works better than inducing epilepsy19:30
lcuknah, you just divided by zero, infobot is gonna vanish into a blackhole19:30
Meizirkki4*pi*(27/2)^3 is 30917,984100303950156330119:30
Meizirkkiinfobot saidf 168 O_O19:30
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infobotmethinks pi is 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664821339360726024914127372458700660631558817488152092096282925409119:30
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Meizirkki~what is pi19:30
infoboti guess pi is 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914564856692346034861045432664821339360726024914127372458700660631558817488152092096282925409119:30
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Meizirkki~who are you19:31
infobotMeizirkki: what are you talking about?19:31
qwerty12infobot: libbeastiality is a library to download animal porn, developed by Valério Valério19:31
infobotokay, qwerty1219:31
nomisnombot: calc 3**519:32
nombotnomis: 24319:32
javispedroinfobot: how about a nice game of chess?19:32
infobotSimple Command Line Calculator. URL:
Meizirkki~use it19:32
javispedro~global thermonuclear war19:32
infobothow about a nice game of chess?19:32
nomisnombot has a subset of python as math capabilities  :)19:32
nomisnombot: a = 519:32
nomisnombot: calc a = 519:32
nombotnomis: Ok!19:32
javispedroinfobot: no, I want to play global thermonuclear war.19:32
nomisnombot: calc 4 + a19:33
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nombotnomis: 919:33
lardmanafternoon all19:33
javispedro~nombot: calc 1/019:33
javispedronombot: calc 1/019:33
nombotjavispedro: ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero19:33
qwerty12Hello, lardman. Finally...19:33
nomisnombot: calc (10**10)**1019:33
nombotnomis: 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000019:33
javispedroyes, some sanity :)19:33
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lardmanhey qwerty12, sorry19:33
VDVsx~kill qwerty1219:33
* infobot shoots a ionized fluxneutrino gun at qwerty1219:33
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Meizirkki~say hello to nombot19:33
infobothello to nombot19:33
lardmandon't go to Blackpool19:34
nomisnombot: calc (100**100)**10019:34
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javispedro~say ~say ~say 119:34
infobot~say ~say 119:34
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nomisoops  :)19:34
Meizirkkinombot: hi19:34
qwerty12nombot: you suck cock19:34
* nomis actually did not expect nombot to complete this calculation :)19:34
javispedronombot: help19:35
Meizirkki~seen nombot19:35
infobotnombot is currently on #maemo (52s), last said: 'nomis: 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000'.19:35
nomisnombot: 1000**1000**100019:35
Gadgetoidom nom nom nom19:35
nomisnombot: calc 1000**1000**100019:35
nombotnomis: RuntimeError: calculation took too long19:35
javispedronombot: calc first 125 digit prime number19:35
nombotjavispedro: SyntaxError: invalid syntax (, line 1)19:35
Meizirkkinombot: calc 4*pi*(27/2)^3/319:35
nombotMeizirkki: TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'float' and 'int'19:35
javispedronombot: calc import sys19:35
nombotjavispedro: ImportError: __import__ not found19:35
Meizirkkinombot: calc 2+219:36
nombotMeizirkki: 419:36
nomisnombot: calc  4*pi*(27/2)**3/319:36
nombotnomis: 9202.7720799219:36
Gadgetoidnombot: calc 1/019:36
nombotGadgetoid: ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero19:36
SpeedEvilnombot: calc send me all your owners posessions next-day-air19:36
nombotSpeedEvil: SyntaxError: invalid syntax (, line 1)19:36
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javispedro~say nombot: calc 2+219:36
infobotnombot: calc 2+219:36
nombotinfobot: 419:36
infobot4 is a number, silly19:36
Gadgetoidnombot: calc 1/0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000119:36
nombotGadgetoid: 1e+4519:36
nomisheh  :)19:36
arpia49hello everybody, does anyone know how a valid sftp uri should be? i can't write using gnome_vfs via sftp19:37
Meizirkki~say nombot: calc 1-319:37
infobotnombot: calc 1-319:37
nombotinfobot: -219:37
infobothmm... libbeastiality is a library to download animal porn, developed by Valério Valério19:37
* javispedro sees time and flees19:37
javispedrosee you!19:37
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nomis~say nombot calc "~" + "libbeastiality"19:38
infobotnombot calc "~" + "libbeastiality"19:38
nomis~say nombot: calc "~" + "libbeastiality"19:38
infobotnombot: calc "~" + "libbeastiality"19:38
nombotinfobot: ~libbeastiality19:38
nomisah, dang  :)19:38
Meizirkkinombot: say something19:39
Gadgetoidnombot calc 0.000000001*0.000000001*0.00000001*0.0000001*0.000001*0.00000119:39
VDVsxinfobot, curse badly qwerty1219:39
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, badly qwerty12 !19:39
Meizirkki~say nombot: ~say nombot19:39
infobotnombot: ~say nombot19:39
Meizirkki~say nombot: say nombot19:40
infobotnombot: say nombot19:40
Gadgetoidnombot: say /nick iamdumb19:40
nombot/nick iamdumb19:40
GadgetoidDarn flammit19:40
Meizirkki~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say19:40
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say19:40
nombot~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say19:40
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say19:40
nombot~say nombot: say19:40
infobotnombot: say19:40
Meizirkki~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say hi!19:41
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say hi!19:41
nombot~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say hi!19:41
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say hi!19:41
nombot~say nombot: say hi!19:41
infobotnombot: say hi!19:41
wazd~say nombot: say nombot: say ~say nombot19:41
infobotnombot: say nombot: say ~say nombot19:41
nombotnombot: say ~say nombot19:41
Meizirkki~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
nombot~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
nombot~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
nombot~say nombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
infobotnombot: say ~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
nombot~say nombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
infobotnombot: say HELLO!!!319:41
* Meizirkki stops spamming19:41
* nomis will stop nombot as soon as it annoys anyone :)19:41
wazdjeez :)19:41
nomisnombot: hvæs19:42
nomisheh, that stuff still works  :)19:42
Mikhothat's it19:42
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wazdI think he's out t pick up the shotgun :D19:42
wazdinfobot: are you SkyNet?19:43
VDVsx~kill nombot19:43
Gadgetoidnombot say ∕nick blah19:43
* infobot shoots a magneto-ionized pseudoelectron gun at nombot19:43
Meizirkkinombot: say `uname -r`19:43
nombot`uname -r`19:43
nomishvaes was a cat in #gimp that at some time walked across the danish laptop keyboard of someone.19:43
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Gadgetoidnombot: say ⁄nick blah19:43
nombot⁄nick blah19:43
wazdnombot: say ~lart infobot19:44
nombot~lart infobot19:44
* infobot overclocks nombot until nombot burns out19:44
qwerty12/topic channel to test your bots19:44
nomisnombot: die19:44
nombotYeth, marthter!19:44
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Meizirkkinombot: say /topic channel to test your bots19:44
wazdMeizirkki: too late, he's dead :(19:45
Meizirkkinombot: resurrect #maemo19:47
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* nombot is psychic19:48
Meizirkkinombot: become immortal19:48
* nombot refuses19:49
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nombot_clonenombot: hi!19:50
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* Meizirkki stops playing until homework is done19:50
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darkHi i had a problem with transmission19:52
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nombotuh, power going down...19:53
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darkI cant download torrent into my maoemo19:53
wazdMao wasn't Emo I think :)19:56
GeneralAntillesThat's a lot of dead bodies for somebody who wasn't at least a little depressed. :P19:56
darkWho knows19:57
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, Emos kills themselves when depressed :)19:57
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RST38hwazd: Got any other URLs for your design samples?20:08
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lcuklardman, get back down south you jessie!20:10
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lcukbut i agree, blackpool has seen better days20:10
lcukhopefully they will regenerate it into the resort people remember it for :)20:11
lardmanlcuk: I am now in the South, thank God20:11
qwerty12lardman knows.20:11
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lcukits been turned into a beer swilling place20:11
lcukthey even wrecked the pleasure beach20:12
* lcuk has many fond memories of blackpool )20:12
qwerty12"Fond" and "Blackpool" do not go together20:12
thpX-Fade: ping20:13
crashanddieqwerty12: I was more thinking along the lines of "lcuk", "having" and "memories" can't end up in the same sentence20:14
lcukwho are you?20:14
qwerty12He's your pimp, and you're his bitch20:15
crashanddiedon't use words you don't know the meaning of20:15
qwerty12crashanddie: Silence, bitch20:15
lcukas a london rentboy, im sure he knows the meaning of them lol20:15
lardmanI was up till 3 last night, 2 the night before20:15
lcukyikes simon!20:15
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crashanddielardman: let me guess, 1 the night before?20:16
lardmanspent ~£80 on beer in the past 3 days, not to mention the free wine20:16
crashanddiewell, you didn't spend money on free wine, did you?20:16
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crashanddieOr else, I'd say you got ripped off20:16
lardmancrashanddie: nah, was 2 the first night too20:16
lardmanno, the free wine was free20:16
crashanddieso why did you mention it?20:16
lardmannote to self, don't start drinking the white when the red runs out20:17
lardmanall as a preamble to my saying that I'm going to wander off as I can't really be bothered to type as I'm so tired20:17
lardmanall this networking is tiring stuff :)20:17
crashanddieso you're too tired to type, but you're not too tired to walk?20:18
qwerty12He's tired of talking to you, get the hint20:19
crashanddieI don't bore20:19
crashanddieI rejuvinate20:19
GeneralAntillesMy own experience doesn't seem to agree with that claiim.20:19
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: did your macpro arrive yet?20:20
GeneralAntillesCalled and the fuckers say my G5 just arrived at Apple and it'll be another 7-10 days until they get a Mac Pro back at the store.20:21
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GeneralAntillesThe guy said I'd have to pick it up which doesn't agree with them telling me they'd ship it to me when I dropped my G5 off.20:22
GeneralAntillesMy restored goodwill for Apple is slowly seeping away.20:22
qwerty12Use an iPhone and watch it all drain in an instant20:23
Stskeepswazd: - opinions? (i know text isn't aligned properly)20:24
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GeneralAntillesThe karma whore in me hates it when people thank you for a post but don't actually Thank! you.20:24
crashanddieStskeeps: the text isn't alligned proper20:24
infobotcrashanddie meant: Stskeeps: the text isn't alligned properly20:24
aSIMULAterStskeeps: why do you have the task launcher button on the right?20:24
qwerty12To add insult to injury, qwerty12 thanks qole's post20:25
StskeepsaSIMULAter: ah, it's just a base layout test - this is not how it would look :)20:25
aSIMULAterok :)20:25
StskeepsaSIMULAter: just the see-through bar and the background, buttons on top20:25
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, that's one ugly font.20:26
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aSIMULAterSystemFont pls :P20:27
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StskeepsaSIMULAter: would love to use Nokia Sans but it's not public :P20:28
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qwerty12Stskeeps: the Chinese are good at copying the Nokia logo, ask them for a quote20:29
qwerty12(generalising: not good...)20:30
Stskeepsnokla ftw20:30
crashanddielol qwerty1220:30
crashanddiethe problem is, when you have a country with 1.4bn people20:30
crashanddiewill it ever be possible to generalise/20:31
aSIMULAternokla connecting peopre20:32
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, perhaps we can get special dispensation for Nokia devices? :P20:32
lardmanhmm, caffeine, amazing effect on the body20:33
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GeneralAntilleslardman's heart is going explode.20:33
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wazdStskeeps: well, closs in the center is definitely bad idea20:35
lardmanno, will be ok, Holly has told me we'll drink some champagne later20:35
Stskeepswazd: ignore placement, it's just to see how icons and such look :P20:35
lardmannot sure that will help with the 3 day hangover or not20:35
wazdStskeeps: icons look fine :)20:39
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Stskeepswazd: background and opacity of background?20:40
Stskeepser, bar20:40
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wazdStskeeps: I'd make the font color white20:41
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Stskeepswazd: hmm, good point20:43
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Stskeepswazd: with it looks a bit odd doesn't it?20:46
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Stskeeps(one case where opacity might be a bad idea)20:47
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* GeneralAntilles mutters evil things about Apple.20:50
Pavlovapple loves you20:50
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lardmanDo we have anything like this in the offing for the new device?
nomisis there a compass in the n900?20:54
RST38hlardman: need a compass20:54
RST38hno compass, no candy20:54
lardmanah, true20:54
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RST38hlardman: Still, you may kinda fake compass with inertial sensor20:55
RST38hlardman: i.e. ask the user to face in known direction for a second, calibrate, then keep track of rotation20:56
nomisRST38h: but you cannot track rotation with an acceleration sensor.20:56
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ShadowJKRST38h, even with many accelerators you can't keep track of yaw20:57
ShadowJKfor more than a few seconds with any sort of accuracy anyway20:57
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nomisRST38h: you need gyroscopic sensors for that.20:57
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ShadowJKtheoretically if you had accelerometers at all ends of the device, you could detect the difference in acceleration when device is rotated, and calculate rotation from that... but you'd need super-accurate accelerometers for that... at which point it'd be cheaper with gyros or compass :)20:59
pupniki think they left out the gyros so we don't make missiles with them21:00
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RST38hnomis,ShadowJK:  actually, you can try computing rotation from the other axis, as long as the subject is guaranteed to stay put21:01
lardmanhmm, well is still cool21:01
RST38hpupnik: You mean, the fuel tanks are in there?21:02
lardmanmight be worth the addition of a BT compass, if such a thing exists21:02
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RST38hHeh, Murtazin went to .KR and now says Samsung will beat Nokia21:02
RST38hEverywhere including the tablet phones (or whatever we are supposed to call the n900)21:03
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qwerty12RST38h: He's also full of shit... He's comparing a pre-production device to one that will come out in 201121:03
ShadowJKAccelerometers can't detect rotation around the axis going straight up... amusingly Apollo had one gyro too little and couldn't point in a certain direction or it'd completely lose track of where it was pointing :)21:03
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* RST38h knew that would piss off people =)21:03
pupniki think Eldar's samsung prehype is pretty retarded21:04
RST38hqwerty12: When Samsung releases a real, extendable smartphone, I may agree with Eldar21:04
RST38hBefore that happens, I do not care what they are basing their feature phone on.21:04
RST38hHeh, even Quim got offended a little bit.21:05
rektidemaemo only is designed for and only supports one output display, correct ?21:07
RST38hyes, the mobile device usually has only one display buffer :)21:07
rektidedoes anyone have knowledge of maemo ever being used in a multi-monitor fashion ?21:07
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RST38hnot on the actual devices21:08
rektidebut, hypothetically, beagle or some such?21:08
Stskeepsrektide: clone or multimonitor21:08
rektidei ask because omap4 has HDMI out21:08
rektidei'm really only interested in multi-monitor21:08
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rektidewell, as the only mobile platform around that can capitalize on Linux's success21:09
rektidei hope at some point in the not too distant future, multi-mon comes under consideration21:09
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Stskeepsrektide: next step is Qt, so there's a big unknown21:10
Stskeepsno idea if maemo5 supports it21:10
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pupnikless talk about devices 2-3 years away, unless you're working on them21:10
RST38hOMAP video output is a copy of the display buffer21:10
RST38hAs far as I know, OMAP *does not* support separate buffers for lcd display and video out21:11
lardmanwhat does a pgp key look like?21:11
RST38hlardman: Block of text21:12
RST38hlike a MIME block more or less21:12
lardmanI've generated one using the Ubuntu gui jobbie, but not sure how to obtain the key itself21:12
RST38hladman: gpg -a --generate21:12
RST38hlardman: gpg --export -a21:12
RST38hlardman: and dump output into a file21:12
RST38hlardman: You want 1024-bit DSA+ElGamal21:13
lardmanah cool21:13
lardmanyeah I selected that one21:13
lardmanso where is my private key then?21:13
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RST38hin the ether =)21:13
lardmanof does pgp hide that away from me and use it itself when decrypting, etc.?21:13
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RST38hlardman: no, you still have it in ~/.gnupg or ~/.gpg21:14
lardmanok cool, thanks21:14
RST38hA Nova Scotia farmer is opposing the construction of a microwave tower for fear it will eventually mutate his organic garlic crop.21:15
RST38hmutant garlic!21:15
RST38hok, gotta go21:15
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luke-jrno u21:23
johnsqStskeeps: Mer coming to archos 5it?21:23
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Stskeepsjohnsq: hmm?21:26
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johnsqStskeeps: n900 without camera and mobil and cheap21:26
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GeneralAntillesGood luck.21:27
johnsqGeneralAntilles: I found them always ugly, never tried one21:28
Stskeepsjohnsq: if its hackable, which i doubt it is21:29
qwerty12_N810Honestly, if there's one company that treats your ass like an ATM, it's Archos21:29
Corsaccan someone change the date to october?21:29
luke-jrdidn't the N900 have 256 MB RAM?21:30
johnsqStskeeps: its linux with android and same chipset21:30
luke-jrArchos only has 128 MB21:30
Stskeepsjohnsq: yeah, but archos devices are known to be very uhm, .. closed21:30
luke-jrStskeeps: if they violate Linux copyrights, report them?21:30
luke-jrthey seem to on their website21:31
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luke-jrthey have a download for firmware, but no mention of GPL21:31
johnsqluke-jr: when i go to download i get firmware and below gnu public license21:32
luke-jrjohnsq: ?21:34
luke-jrI see no mention of it period.21:34
Stskeepsluke-jr: you'd have a field day on archos21:34
luke-jron the specs.html page?21:34
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johnsqluke-jr: no click support&account -> Downloads21:35
Stskeepsevening qgil21:35
qgilhi there21:35
qgilI was looking for VDVsx :)21:35
luke-jrjohnsq: ok. do they include that with the product itself?21:35
Pavlov /win 3121:35
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tuukkahlcuk, lbt, anyone else who followed the earlier conversation here, i'm sorry. actually, the more pythonic and concise signal syntax is not obsolete, it's *new* in qt4.5 and not implemented in pyside yet21:36
johnsqluke-jr: I don't know, I have only read the annoucement and the price.21:36
luke-jrjohnsq: where do you see the chipset info?21:36
GadgetoidAhh feeling the Archos love21:37
GadgetoidI single handedly shot down the Archos TV+ and made sure they never tried again21:37
luke-jraha, Wikipedia has it21:37
johnsqluke-jr: have you looked in the pdf sheet?21:37
GadgetoidI'm proud of that fact :)21:37
GadgetoidActually, I'm guessing the fact that the product sucked balls probably had more to do with it than me stating that it sucks balls21:38
luke-jrjohnsq: what do you think of the new Zaurus?21:38
johnsqluke-jr: I don't like that it included a keyboard.21:39
luke-jrZaurus always include keyboards...21:39
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GadgetoidSheesh, I wish I had a classic Zaurus *sigh*21:39
GadgetoidI totally missed that boat21:39
luke-jrGadgetoid: 64 MB RAM doesn't cut it :(21:40
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GadgetoidTrue, luke-jr, but I've enjoyed worse - the Sharp ZQ770 for starters21:40
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johnsqluke-jr: I don't need a device with keyboard (which is not standard).21:40
luke-jrjohnsq: keyboardless devices are useless21:40
luke-jrheck, even my wireless mouse has a keyboard21:40
GadgetoidYeah, how are you supposed to type linux and shit without a keyboard!21:41
Gadgetoid> Do linux > Doing Linux > Linux done21:41
johnsqluke-jr: I need only 10 keys...21:41
johnsqGadgetoid: latest version you can type with the touchpad.21:42
Gadgetoid10 keys, all you need to type: "child porn"21:42
GadgetoidI don't know why I find that hilarious, I need therapy21:42
GadgetoidFour U keys? The only thing you're going to be able to type is SUUUUUUUUUUU01234567890#*21:43
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* luke-jr ponders what other devices might come out with i.MX51521:45
GadgetoidI don't think I could master an 11 key board21:45
lcuktuukkah, dont apologise im glad you followed up with it.  hope you manage to get what you need21:46
johnsqluke-jr: or wait for omap4 devices21:46
luke-jrjohnsq: why?21:46
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luke-jrI have absolutely no attachment to TI21:46
johnsqluke-jr: why not? dual core >1ghz is better than my desktop pc21:46
lcukjohnsq, as a left hander i find your keyboard offensive and will continue to use the touchpad on the left hand side of my cherry input device21:47
GadgetoidThe Netwalker looks really quite nice until you land on the screen, and it's a pokey little affair in a bezel so thick it looks like it came from a speak-n-spell21:47
lcukspeak n spell is cool again!21:47
GadgetoidOnly if you're into circuit bending...21:48
lcukno even21:48
johnsqlcuk: I'm also left hander you can use it with right hand also. but i prefer using keyboard with the good hand21:48
lcukthats got an n900 in it!21:48
luke-jrjohnsq: i.MX515 is marketted as 5-core21:48
lcukand it sends text messages21:48
lcukand speaks :D21:48
GadgetoidHaha lcuk21:49
lcukuses an arduino hardware mod with bluetooth interface and is one of the coolest hardware hacks ive ever seen :D21:49
GadgetoidI don't know how I'm going to avoid buying an N90021:49
lcukthe other cool hacks were on an equally amazing level21:49
lcukthe n900 rocks!21:49
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darkWho had n 90021:55
lupine_85me soon!21:57
lupine_85who's getting themselves one for christmas? :)21:57
* luke-jr ponders building a i.MX515 wearable21:59
gunni<--- will be my first mobile :) Never needed one, but thats exactly the one i must have21:59
* till- will buy run right after christmas 22:00
johnsqluke-jr: I see only one core22:00
luke-jrjohnsq: apparently they are counting the co-processors like 3D etc22:01
lcukthey should22:05
lcukthey are cores22:05
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ShadowJKN810 has 4 cores!22:08
ShadowJKarm, vfp, dsp, gpu ;)22:08
johnsqShadowJK: wifi is also a cpu22:08
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slonopotamusand bt, i think :)22:09
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keesjand the 3G probably aslo a few and sometimes the gps22:10
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vladovgis thear a bluejack or somting similar for the diablo22:14
GadgetoidDoes that still exist? do people still DO that?22:15
GadgetoidBluejacking is like, sooo totally over dude!22:15
lbtyou phreak22:15
GadgetoidIt's all midgetjacking these days22:15
vladovgand after all did exsist22:16
Gadgetoidyeah I like so totally told stacy that i bluejacked this guy and sent smileys to his phone, and she was like "grrrl that's so totally over!!!"22:16
GadgetoidAnd I was like "whaat? no way" and she was like "yeah way! yo got to get him on facebook!"22:17
vladovgits dear a soft or not22:17
GadgetoidAircrack is where it's all at, hax peoples wifi and print messages to their printers22:18
GadgetoidOh and use the tcp/ip stack bug in Windows Vista/7 to BSOD their machines22:18
vladovgay have aircrack22:18
vladovgneed a bluejack22:18
GadgetoidWoo, TomTom has almost finished downloading to my iPhone22:19
qwerty12_N810/ban Gadgetoid*!@* We do not talk of iPhones22:20
GadgetoidThe iPhone suckered me in, with its shiny oblong22:20
vladovgspesali yors22:20
GadgetoidAnd now I resent not being free of contract for an N90022:20
GadgetoidSo I've got to watch my other half get one and spit in my eye22:21
vladovgdid some one have anser of my qeston22:21
GadgetoidAlso I resent the N900 being a phone22:21
lardmanchampagne does the trick, I recommend it as a hangover cure22:21
lcuklol qwerty12_N810 that wasnt a joke22:21
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qwerty12_N810lcuk: indeed :p22:21
lcukthe onedotzero apps profanity filter wouldnt let you insult iphone22:21
lcukthankfully i made a patch :D22:21
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qwerty12_N810Yeah well, you know what I think of the whole filter itself22:22
GadgetoidWTF, music industry groups want more money from iTunes22:22
lcuklol ive seen vdvsxs insult22:22
lcukthey want blood22:22
lcukthey would like the iphone to actually connect to a vein22:22
qwerty12_N810lcuk: I want him to put that video on YouTube22:23
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GadgetoidI could probably unlock my iPhone and use the proceeds of its sale to buy out my contract22:23
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GadgetoidWhen I went from TyTN2 to iPhone I just ebayed my phone and gave the SIM away to a family member22:24
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slonopotamusGadgetoid, wince, iphone? you're a lost soul22:29
GadgetoidNah slonopotamus, I'm a wondering soul22:29
GadgetoidAlthough I did hang around wince long enough to know why they call it wince22:29
GadgetoidSheesh, modern winblows phones don't run any faster than my greyscale Compaq Aero 152022:30
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Proteous_I always laugh at the people who take thier stylish slim iphone and put it in a huge ugly plastic case22:30
GadgetoidProteous_:  you'd love me, I've got an Otterbox Defender22:30
GadgetoidAnd about 30 other iPhone cases22:31
pupnik_How do i find the actual sum of filesizes on a linux filesystem?  Not the disk space used?22:31
pupnik_I want to find out how much wasted space i have due to large blocks/clusters whatever22:31
pupnik_argh i knew this22:31
GeneralAntillesProteous_, it implodes if you don't put it in a case.22:31
GadgetoidGot ma Griffin Clarifi on at the moment22:32
GadgetoidMakes photos slightly less shit22:32
GadgetoidHmm, looks like it'll set me back about £150 to buy out of contract22:32
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fnordianslippupnik_: try "du -hs /", perhaps with a sudo, so it includes files the user can't read22:51
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VDVsxqgil, ping23:01
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carloscesahi folks, I'm facing a problem with my N810 and maybe you can help me.23:07
* VDVsx goes watch the 2nd half of the football match, back in 45min ;)23:07
GadgetoidWhat's the problemo?23:07
carloscesaGadgetoid, well, just a few seconds after initialization the device turn off. After some debugging, I got the following errors:23:08
carloscesaGadgetoid, [   36.921875] JFFS2 notice: (1200) check_node_data: wrong data CRC in data node at 0x0b651edc: read 0x25e088e1, calculated 0x76861b05.23:09
GadgetoidTried reflashing it?23:09
carloscesaGadgetoid, [   40.578125] JFFS2 warning: (1293) jffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary, padsize = -96523:09
lcukcarloscesa, how did you debug if it turns off?23:09
carloscesaGadgetoid, Yes, I tried reflash the whole FIASCO23:09
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carloscesaGadgetoid, it looks like the flash has several bad blocks23:10
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GadgetoidFailness :(23:12
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lcukcarloscesa, :( if thats your prognosis im not sure what can be done23:14
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lcukyou already know more than most of us could know what to do23:15
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lcuki suggest you possibly contact nokia for warranty repair, or post on the maemo -developers list and see if anyone knows23:15
SpeedEvilIt should - I thought - cope with a fraction of CRC errors naturally - unless they are in the first block23:16
SpeedEvilPerhaps it's got into a state where it can't cope with one more error, and a reformat might work23:17
SpeedEvilmkjffs or whatever it is23:17
SpeedEvil(it = jffs)23:17
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carloscesaGadgetoid, lcuk , SpeedEvil thanks guys23:20
SpeedEvilNAND flash has a certain fraction of bad blocks specced.23:20
SpeedEvilA new 64M device may start out with 66M real blocks23:20
GadgetoidSorry I couldn't actually be useful :D23:21
SpeedEvilIt is specced that the first block will be OK for up to 1000 writes, with no errors.23:21
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SpeedEvilAnd that the capacity after 100000 or a million writes of every block on the device will be 64M23:21
GadgetoidSmeggy smeg smeg, PS3 not seeing MediaLink, boohoo23:21
SpeedEvil64M blocks without too many errors23:22
qgilVDVsx: I was offering help with the Summit submissions but now it's too late in Helsinki and I'm basically going to landscape mode23:22
qgilgood night!23:24
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lcukgood evening keesj of the grey council \o23:26
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keesjit's been my longest day in the council yet23:26
keesjgood morning early bird of the next generation23:27
lcukive had a long few weeks too23:27
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keesjplaying and hacking around, that's fun23:27
lcukahh but i wasnt doing either23:27
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GAN800keesj, a year was a mistake. ;)23:28
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lcukGAN800, thats only cos you were holding the cattleprod at the wrong end ;)23:29
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daniel32708guys, is there a spec sheet (pdf) for the n810?  ive been loking for one and cant find23:29
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lcukdaniel32708, im sure there is somewhere23:31
lcukbut i do not know where23:31
daniel32708its hidden in some usb in some office in noki23:31
* keesj is mainly thinkin about a good push n900 idea and looking forward to some serious case-modding23:33
lcukkeesj, we put a suggestion in from liqbase yesterday23:33
* lcuk based it on stuff tested at onedotzero23:34
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lardmanhmm, am still on the front page, good good23:34
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keesjI want to create a case with extra buttons (game console) and put pupnik's emulators on there23:34
lcuklol lardman23:34
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lcukand javispedros!23:34
lcukkeesj, proper old school console case would be cool23:35
qwerty12_N810lardman: It's there to show its longest registered member respect ;)23:35
keesjlardman: how did that happen and do you get karma for it?23:35
lcukwould it be wise though for recognisable computerised games consoles to be on display in store?23:35
lardmankeesj: no idea, been like that for months23:35
lcukits there to push you to make a radio app :P23:35
lardmanoh yes, I remember that now23:36
lcuklardman, speaking of which, the push presentation had a radio transmit idea23:36
keesjlet's start comparing garage user ids :P23:36
qwerty12_N810It's part of his council re-election campaign23:36
carloscesaSpeedEvil, sorry I'm back. Well, I'm aware of this number of writes on mem..23:36
lcukyou texted a musicians name in and it would do a search and then transmit to old style radio23:36
keesjI guess that all pretty faces where banned from the front page because they where to distracting23:37
lcukkeesj, i dont think he gets karma for it, but being recognised in the street by nokia groupies has its benefits for him23:37
GadgetoidThere we go, iPhone fully unlocked and given to my partner, and I've put my SIM in a Sonim XP323:37
SpeedEvilcarloscesa: The above was based on general knowledge - I've no idea exactly how this'd work when flashing the device.23:37
lcuki bet the "ladies" in blackpool loved having a celeb around23:38
keesjdoes he have nokia groupies?23:38
qwerty12_N810keesj: rofl23:38
lcuki use that term loosely because its hard to tell them apart behind the mustaches23:38
lardmanlcuk: the ladies in Blackpool were born before the invention of the wheel23:38
qwerty12_N810lcuk: But they have dentures, your favourite!23:38
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lardmanis there any Python camera code for Fremantle?23:39
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lcukcamera is quite advanced on n900!   i know gstreamer has lots of new options23:39
carloscesaSpeedEvil, There must be an solution for this. Booting from external mmc or usb-nfs could be workaround to use device..23:40
lcuki didnt manage to get a working camera until a few days ago tho either23:40
lcuklardman, i think in the new range of maemo-examples there is cam code23:40
* lcuk tries to check23:40
lardmanyeah I saw it, but in C iirc23:41
keesjlcuk: what kind of proposal did you do (if you care to share)23:41
lardmanwhere do I file bugs against the dev docs?23:41
lcuka big long one23:41
lardman "Note: Developer documentation bugs should be filed under Development platform!"23:42
lcukits a word doc, so not online atm23:42
lardmanwhere is that then?23:42
lcuknokia push n90023:42
lardmanwhat's that?23:42
lcuki wanted to do it as part of the summit too23:42
lcukmarketing campaign to create an installation to go in nokia stores early next year23:43
lcuksubmit a proposal and get backing to make it if selected23:43
lardmanah, cool23:43
GeneralAntillesAh, gerbick.23:43
lardmanis this the right url?
lardmanI don't see camera code there23:44
lcuklardman, i was gonna ask you about one aspect of it too - but you were afk.  your existing work will still be strongly needed for one aspect and will be credited accordingly if it goes ahead23:44
lardmanGeneralAntilles: do you know where to file dev doc bugs? Or rather under which category?23:44
lcukme neather now simon23:44
lcukjust lemme find it23:44
lcuki know its around23:45
GeneralAntillesShould be a documentation component.23:45
lardmanyeah that's what I want to file a bug about, there's no working link to the full C code23:46
lardmanthanks GeneralAntilles23:46
keesjbut it that push stuff a hint for people to start asking for schematics and such?23:47
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lcukkeesj, i had a few ideas23:49
SpeedEvillcuk: A 'wow' installation - with a big monitor, and ... ?23:49
lcuktin can phones which have voice, video, touch vibe modes23:49
lcuktwo big cans and string23:49
lcukthe same software can be used outside the store with gf23:50
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lcukand if you shake phone your other end shakes too23:50
lcukSpeedEvil, now you mention it23:50
lcukthat was like the proposal i did make23:50
b-man16hello lcuk :)23:50
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lcukwith backup resources from: seeing flow in biiiiiiig   and jamming on a desk in small23:51
lardmanlooks pretty23:52
lcukwe had a great time with them and i think its really novel and fun!23:52
keesjvry cool23:52
keesjso how many devices do you need for testing :p23:52
lcukyou mean i didnt show you simon? :$23:52
lcukheh keesj the display specifies 5*5..23:52
lcukif it works how i think its scalable tho23:52
lcukand we could play with anything from 1 to .....23:52
lcuklimit of network23:52
lcukbest part is the home participation aspect23:53
keesjdoes it use near field communication23:53
* lardman wonders if checking out all of maemo-examples was a mistake23:53
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lcukit would be expected to use wifi23:53
lcukthough it would run using multicast23:53
lcukand if it works how i am planning the traffic will be minimal23:54
lcukit just needs to send over the "weather map" of data, the actual individual particles do not have to flow or be managed between devices23:54
keesjthanks for the chat , going off now :p23:55
lcuki dont mind23:55
lcukkeesj, i have been playing with the flow for a few weeks now23:55
lcukand its so touchable23:55
lcuklol lardman i dont tihnk its the checkout of the items directly23:56
lcukits the number of mods that have been made23:57
mfinkleanyone know of api docs for manipulating the autocomplete, auto-captialize features?23:57
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* javispedro should probably get to fix some drnoksnes' bugs instead of playing yoshi's island23:57
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johnsqjavispedro: *lol*23:57
lardmanthe maemo-examples stuff doesn't build on the SDK23:58
lardmanlooks like it's old23:58
javispedrolardman: why it does not surprise me :P23:58

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