| AStorm | mmh, Gentoo on n810 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| AStorm | next step is Exherbo on n810 | 00:00 |
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| slonopotamus | AStorm, why not? | 00:04 |
| GAN800 | X-Fade is a him or her. | 00:07 |
| slonopotamus | they. | 00:07 |
| AStorm | it. | 00:07 |
| GAN800 | slonopotamus, exactly. | 00:08 |
| javispedro | shlim. | 00:08 |
| * GAN800 really hates it when non-native speakers use PC pronouns. | 00:08 | |
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| MaceN8x0 | oh yeah, have maemo4 running nice again | 00:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | minus the printing it really is awesome heh | 00:10 |
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| GAN800 | Ugh! | 00:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 00:14 |
| * GAN800 stabs Peter. | 00:15 | |
| MaceN8x0 | got my su8w back in action too | 00:15 |
| GAN800 | Using the feminine pronoun only is even worse. | 00:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | ah well. guess this will do until i get an n900 | 00:15 |
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| MaceN8x0 | the feminie pronoun? | 00:15 |
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| RST38h | Hey leave Peter alone, we all still need him until n900 is released | 00:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 00:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | i hope that means mer won´t get discontinued | 00:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | i will eventually need something newer for my n900 | 00:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | er... n810 | 00:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | maybe someone will do a real port of maemo5 to n8x0 | 00:17 |
| MaceN8x0 | never know :) | 00:17 |
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| * MaceN8x0 goes to watch some shows | 00:18 | |
| Captain_Picard | maybe someone will actually sell the n900 for under 500 euros to me | 00:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | im sure in a year or so | 00:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | they will be kind of cheaper | 00:18 |
| Captain_Picard | http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/max_lvl_89.jpg | 00:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | like when the n910 comes out | 00:19 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 00:19 |
| jaska | connery hit the level cap | 00:19 |
| MaceN8x0 | with 1G or ram and 64G internal flash | 00:19 |
| Captain_Picard | i doubt :P | 00:19 |
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| Captain_Picard | its gonna be some small upgrade | 00:20 |
| Captain_Picard | like better camera | 00:20 |
| Captain_Picard | keyboardless | 00:20 |
| javispedro | nah, I agree with rst's "premonition" there: n910 will be keyboardless n900 | 00:20 |
| Captain_Picard | N2000 | 00:21 |
| Captain_Picard | might have 64gb internal | 00:21 |
| Captain_Picard | with maemo6 | 00:21 |
| javispedro | N9000 | 00:21 |
| javispedro | might try to kill you while hibernating | 00:21 |
| Captain_Picard | when its over 9000! it will be good | 00:21 |
| GAN800 | Magic! | 00:21 |
| javispedro | GAN800, read our newest android troll? | 00:22 |
| GAN800 | Nope | 00:22 |
| javispedro | he has nothing better to say that "Maemo is still not there" in maemo.org. | 00:22 |
| RST38h | you mean they finally finished with iphone? | 00:22 |
| GAN800 | GPRS and trying to read in bits and pieces to avoid getting carsick. | 00:22 |
| javispedro | then don't click ;) : http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=318462#post318462 | 00:22 |
| javispedro | bad link: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31131 | 00:23 |
| GAN800 | Erm, no navigation in Maemo 5? | 00:23 |
| GAN800 | What in the world would be the point of shipping Maps. . . . | 00:24 |
| javispedro | "Hmm seems that maemo still needs some time... but i'll keep an eye on it. Hopefully it will become a healthy competitor to Android some day." yeah. | 00:24 |
| javispedro | hopefully. | 00:24 |
| lardman | ~lart Bank Holidays for making the internet really slow | 00:25 |
| * infobot calls Bank Holidays on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home for making the internet really slow | 00:25 | |
| javispedro | that was weird ;) | 00:25 |
| GAN800 | I hate Android's fake open source. | 00:25 |
| RST38h | javis: Oh well... | 00:25 |
| GAN800 | I hate the damage it's doing to open source. | 00:25 |
| lardman | GAN800: Peter is German isn't he? | 00:26 |
| GAN800 | lardman, no idea. | 00:26 |
| RST38h | GAN: Hasn't Peter explicitely said that the Ovi Maps included with Maemo5 include free navigation? | 00:26 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, route planning. | 00:26 |
| lardman | well message is feminine in German, so it's an easy mistake to make | 00:26 |
| RST38h | ah but not step by step navigation? | 00:27 |
| GAN800 | But a few posts later he says he's not sure about voice nav. | 00:27 |
| RST38h | I see... | 00:27 |
| roope | "route planning on the device. Please note that turn-by-turn navigation is a different story and I'm not sure when that is in the Maps version for Maemo 5." | 00:27 |
| GAN800 | Which would make Maps completely pointless. | 00:28 |
| RST38h | worksforme | 00:28 |
| roope | Well. Turn-by-turn means this annoying voice thingy. | 00:28 |
| RST38h | But I usually walk around here, not drive | 00:28 |
| roope | I think there are many other uses to maps just besides that. | 00:28 |
| GAN800 | Yeah, which is important for being able to use it while driving. | 00:28 |
| GAN800 | Might as well just Maemo Mapper. | 00:29 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: standard battery management is impossible as long as we're stuck with BME afaik | 00:29 |
| GAN800 | Which is at least open source. | 00:29 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: cx3110x doesn't work with non-Nokia kernels? | 00:29 |
| roope | Btw is the Maemo Mapper developer doing a Fremantle version? | 00:29 |
| GAN800 | and you aren't at risk of having your position reported to the mothership like Palm. :rolleyes: | 00:29 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, Stskeeps said it works, i haven't tried | 00:30 |
| RST38h | GAN: Ah, you have probably seen N-series ads, these devices are exclusively for hip urbanites. They either skate or walk, not drive ;) | 00:30 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i heard smth about hald-addon-bme | 00:30 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: standard method isn't HAL | 00:31 |
| Luke-Jr | in fact, HAL sucks | 00:31 |
| Luke-Jr | so | 00:31 |
| RST38h | Ok, sleep time. | 00:31 |
| GAN800 | What idiot decided that the S60 podcast app should play from newest to oldest? | 00:31 |
| Captain_Picard | http://zip.4chan.org/o/src/1251664200533.jpg | 00:31 |
| javispedro | gnite rst | 00:31 |
| RST38h | g'night | 00:31 |
| mavhc | isn't that what ipods do? | 00:32 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, what's the standar method? /proc or /sys ? | 00:32 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: yeah | 00:32 |
| roope | Getting Maemo Mapper to Fremantle would anyway be a great thing. To access the various map repositories, if nothing else. | 00:34 |
| Luke-Jr | would be nice if Maemo Mapper were platform independent | 00:35 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: for what? | 00:35 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, uh? | 00:35 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: "Luke-Jr, what's the standar method? /proc or /sys ?" | 00:35 |
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| Luke-Jr | Qt Mapper claims to be a port of Maemo Mapper, but I wonder why it's missing most of the functionality | 00:36 |
| MaceN8x0 | because it sucks? | 00:37 |
| javispedro | and I'd like Maemo Mapper to be more Oziexplorer-like ;) | 00:37 |
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| marnanel | Hi. I have two projects on garage ("rfk" and "belltower"), both of them using git for SCM. But http://git.maemo.org/projects/rfk/info/refs exists and http://git.maemo.org/projects/belltower/info/refs does not. What am I doing wrong here? | 00:52 |
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| marnanel | um, s/http/https/ | 00:52 |
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| andre__ | crap, this shit is so fscking broken... | 01:05 |
| zerojayPC | What shit? | 01:07 |
| VDVsx | andre__, mail it to me, I will fix it for you ;) | 01:08 |
| andre__ | fremantle. at least the stuff i run into... sigh | 01:09 |
| javispedro | heh. | 01:09 |
| andre__ | VDVsx, don't think you work on modest ;-) | 01:09 |
| javispedro | ah, modest broken is not news :) | 01:09 |
| andre__ | url parsing in the viewer. argh. | 01:09 |
| VDVsx | andre__, I can work with a proper device ;) | 01:09 |
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| mavhc | why does modest say impa.gmail.com has an unknown certificate? | 01:20 |
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| MaceN8x0 | mavhc, i think because they use mail.google.com or something else for their cert | 01:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | not sure tho | 01:22 |
| andre__ | mavhc, known issue | 01:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | i have the same problem | 01:22 |
| mavhc | says signature is BAD | 01:22 |
| mavhc | andre__: whose fault? | 01:23 |
| javispedro | it says so here from time to time (gmail pop3) | 01:23 |
| andre__ | there's a thread on talk.maemo.org about that | 01:23 |
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| andre__ | don't remember | 01:23 |
| hetz | hi people | 01:23 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 01:23 |
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| hetz | small question: Are applications which are written to N800/N810 can be run directly (without recompile) on N900? | 01:24 |
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| mavhc | I hate web forums, usenet clients have better UIs | 01:24 |
| MaceN8x0 | i hate forums period ;) | 01:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 01:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | ;-) | 01:25 |
| mavhc | all forums should have an nntp interface | 01:25 |
| * EvilGuru just read up on Maemo 5 and is impressed, good thing too as my N810 has its share of scratches | 01:26 | |
| andre__ | hetz, sometimes, sometimes not? | 01:27 |
| andre__ | hetz, there was API breakage. but maybe sometimes you're lucky :-P | 01:27 |
| hetz | I see, does anyone knows which parts in N900 drivers are still closed? | 01:29 |
| AStorm | as if anyone knows what the specs are... | 01:29 |
| AStorm | I'd like to, at least | 01:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | can someone try to dcc me a small file? | 01:30 |
| hetz | AStorm, specs for N900? | 01:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | hetz, all of it ;) | 01:31 |
| hetz | it's out already | 01:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | Stskeeps, would know that | 01:31 |
| hetz | see topic's URL | 01:31 |
| AStorm | :) | 01:31 |
| AStorm | oh hell | 01:32 |
| andre__ | AStorm, errm? http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ | 01:32 |
| AStorm | Zeiss optics! | 01:32 |
| * AStorm dies | 01:32 | |
| marnanel | is this the right place to ask questions about garage.maemo.org hosting? | 01:33 |
| * Firebird wonders why "Maemo 5 will not be available for [...] iPhone" is in the chan topic | 01:33 | |
| AStorm | I wonder if the GSM receiver supports HSPA | 01:33 |
| andre__ | "Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0/iPhone"? iPhone?! what about my microwave? | 01:33 |
| andre__ | has that really been asked so much? | 01:33 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 01:33 |
| * andre__ wonders | 01:33 | |
| Firebird | ha, I beat you to it >_> | 01:33 |
| AStorm | that'd be a winner | 01:33 |
| andre__ | Firebird, heh, yeah | 01:33 |
| MaceN8x0 | andre__, i think it was a joke | 01:33 |
| andre__ | marnanel, hummm? | 01:33 |
| AStorm | hnnm seems that it does | 01:34 |
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| MaceN8x0 | where the iphone for that bitch? lol | 01:34 |
| AStorm | 10/2 Mbps means HSPA | 01:34 |
| AStorm | I wonder now how expensive it will be | 01:34 |
| AStorm | and who will buy a tarnished used n810 of mine ;p | 01:34 |
| hetz | Actually, *Less* then Nokia N97 | 01:34 |
| EvilGuru | Although I don't understand why the N900 is being advertised as having 1GiB of memory | 01:34 |
| AStorm | EvilGuru: yeah, bad marketing | 01:35 |
| AStorm | it's 256 MB ram | 01:35 |
| EvilGuru | My N810 has virtual memory too | 01:35 |
| hetz | and 768MB swap... | 01:35 |
| marnanel | andre__: I have two applications hosted on garage.maemo.org, but git is working for one of them and not the other. "git clone..." says that https://git.maemo.org/projects/belltower/info/refs doesn't exist, which in fact it doesn't. But I suppose it should, because the corresponding URL exists for my other project. | 01:35 |
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| MaceN8x0 | blah | 01:35 |
| EvilGuru | While I can't complain about 256, 512 would be nicer | 01:35 |
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| javispedro | the 818 TiB needed to run Conboy would be nicer too :P | 01:36 |
| marnanel | Conboy runs just fine. | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Can anyone say anything about outdoors visibility of the N900 compared to the eeepc 900? | 01:36 |
| AStorm | if it uses the same screen as n810, which I guess it does, it will be excellent | 01:36 |
| javispedro | I know marnanel, it's just an old joke ;) http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM.png | 01:37 |
| AStorm | (assuming your screen is clean) | 01:37 |
| marnanel | aha, sorry | 01:37 |
| EvilGuru | Good to see the stylus biting the dust, though | 01:37 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 01:37 |
| AStorm | no, wait | 01:37 |
| AStorm | it does not | 01:37 |
| AStorm | it's 3,5" | 01:37 |
| EvilGuru | While the handwriting was neat, and it allowed for more precision it was too much of a pain to get out | 01:37 |
| AStorm | I didn't find it hindering | 01:38 |
| AStorm | w/e, can use a separate stylus | 01:38 |
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| * javispedro thanks god the n900 still has a stylus. | 01:39 | |
| andre__ | marnanel, https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=maemo.org%20Website&component=Garage ? :-) | 01:39 |
| andre__ | marnanel, don't know... at least nobody around here at this time. | 01:40 |
| marnanel | andre__: I just wanted to make sure it was in fact a problem with garage and not me being stupid. :) | 01:40 |
| EvilGuru | Is there any information with how the worldwide release is being staggared? | 01:40 |
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| andre__ | marnanel, i know that feeling, but i'm sorry that i can't help you ;-) | 01:40 |
| andre__ | EvilGuru, don't think so yet | 01:40 |
| marnanel | thanks anyway :) | 01:40 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 01:40 |
| AStorm | one thing I wonder about - does it have USB charging? | 01:40 |
| AStorm | and is the pinout of sound input iPhone-compatible | 01:41 |
| AStorm | uh... minijack | 01:41 |
| EvilGuru | AStorm: Wouldn't have thought you could pull that much power from a micro-USB | 01:41 |
| EvilGuru | But I think the 3-pole jack is the same as the one for the iPhone | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | it's probably the standard Nokia AV connector | 01:41 |
| AStorm | EvilGuru: 500 mA is normal USB, can pull that from micro | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | It's 4-pole, but backwards compatible with regular headphoens | 01:42 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah, 4-pole, but different from iPhone | 01:42 |
| AStorm | so it messes up on all other 4-pole headphones | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | It has MicroUSB charging, and apparently no regular charging port | 01:42 |
| EvilGuru | Ah, so it is, left, right, ground, mic | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | EvilGuru, or left right ground control | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | or left right ground video | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | I belive it's capable of video output on it too.. | 01:43 |
| AStorm | hmm, so it may charge a bit slow | 01:43 |
| AStorm | w/o a special fake USB port charger | 01:43 |
| gunni_ | AStorm: For the price there is a site selling the N900 for 599,- Euro to germany and italy (VAT included) as preorder, so this seems to be the upcoming price | 01:43 |
| AStorm | hmm, okayish | 01:43 |
| AStorm | I wouldn't have paid much less for n810 | 01:43 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, the included USB Charger is rated for >=1000mA, which is higher than 2.5mm Nokia chargers | 01:43 |
| AStorm | which is much higher than normal USB | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 01:44 |
| AStorm | actually, 2x higher | 01:44 |
| AStorm | :> | 01:44 |
| AStorm | maybe there will be a double plug | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | I am guess if you short the data pins together, the device will pull as much juice as it can get | 01:44 |
| EvilGuru | AStorm: Often you can pull quite a bit more from USB | 01:44 |
| AStorm | yes, sometimes | 01:44 |
| AStorm | but it's not standard | 01:44 |
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| ShadowJK | AStorm, also according to the website, there's a 2.5mm -> microUSB charging adapter included :) | 01:44 |
| EvilGuru | I've gotton close to 800mA from my Macbook | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK is referring to the power USB standard that's recent - for chargers. | 01:44 |
| AStorm | heh | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It shorts the normally data pins - to tell stuff that it's a charger - and it's safe to pull more current. | 01:45 |
| AStorm | but it's a very nice touch | 01:45 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: I know that | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | k - sorry. | 01:45 |
| AStorm | many USB hosts don't support it yet though | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 01:45 |
| AStorm | but 500 mA should be enough to charge, albeit slowly | 01:45 |
| AStorm | (it was for n810) | 01:45 |
| EvilGuru | According to wikipedia the battery has a lower capacity | 01:46 |
| AStorm | interesting | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I've wished for ages that USB peripherals could say 'high power OK' - and negotiate a 30V 0.5A supply with the hub if it was capable. That would eliminate 95% of the power adaptors on the desktop. | 01:46 |
| ShadowJK | 500mA rate should fill it up in 3 - 4 hours | 01:46 |
| AStorm | is it li-poly now? | 01:46 |
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| AStorm | SpeedEvil: more like 5V 2A | 01:46 |
| AStorm | ;P | 01:46 |
| ShadowJK | N810 was lipoly too | 01:47 |
| minimike | hi | 01:47 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: nah, li-ion | 01:47 |
| AStorm | BP-5L | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: no - 30V 0.5A - 2A on the connectors can be a reliability problem, and require short connectors. But... | 01:47 |
| EvilGuru | Wonder if the run-time is any different, but I guess it also depends on the voltage, also | 01:47 |
| minimike | are there some images for the OpenMoko available? | 01:47 |
| AStorm | EvilGuru: yes, that's why I asked about lipoly | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | minimike: the graphics accel on the freerunner really blows. | 01:48 |
| ShadowJK | minimike, I would guess you're looking for #mer | 01:48 |
| AStorm | it delivers higher voltage | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: mer isn't x86? | 01:48 |
| minimike | ok | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: li-poly and li-ion are both 4.2V max | 01:48 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: that and more | 01:48 |
| ShadowJK | minimike, maemo5 only runs on Nokia N900, if that's what you're wondering | 01:48 |
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| AStorm | SpeedEvil: yes, max, but typical li-ion is 3,7V | 01:48 |
| ShadowJK | You're a lunatic if you use Li-Poly to 4.3V, but the RC people do it :) | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: that's the nominal voltage. The nominal voltage of li-po is the same. | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: 3-4.2V or so | 01:49 |
| AStorm | I messed up, n810 uses BP-4L | 01:49 |
| AStorm | which is li-poly | 01:49 |
| AStorm | let me check wiki | 01:50 |
| ShadowJK | N800/N810 will start warning you at 3.55 or so, shuts down shortly after... and at 2.8 (iirc) the hardware refuses to run | 01:50 |
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| ShadowJK | BP-4L and BP-5L are both Lithium Polymer | 01:50 |
| ShadowJK | Source: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bp-5l http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bp-4l | 01:51 |
| AStorm | yeah | 01:51 |
| AStorm | now this uses BL-5J, a newer type | 01:51 |
| AStorm | which is li-ion | 01:51 |
| AStorm | I wonder what made them change it | 01:52 |
| AStorm | (although I suppose heat reasons) | 01:52 |
| ShadowJK | Li-Ion is pretty confusing anyway | 01:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Essentially all lithium cells today (barring LiFePO4 - which are rare in anything but powertools - though some laptops are using them as an option) are 2.5-3V bottom to 4.2V top. | 01:52 |
| EvilGuru | AStorm: Cheaper to make, possibly | 01:52 |
| AStorm | I had one battery die in n810 due to heat | 01:52 |
| ShadowJK | When people say "Li-Ion" they usually mean non-polymer cobalt based lithium chemistry :) | 01:52 |
| AStorm | note: don't leave n810 on desk on a hot day | 01:52 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah | 01:53 |
| ShadowJK | all LiIons hate heat :) | 01:53 |
| EvilGuru | An even worse thing to do with an N810 is to leave the RSS widget running for a month without using it | 01:53 |
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| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 01:53 |
| ShadowJK | It runs battery down then sits there corroding? :-) | 01:53 |
| AStorm | nah, why? | 01:53 |
| MaceN8x0 | just sucking up cycles huh? | 01:53 |
| EvilGuru | A rather icky bug with the old version caused it to eat up memory, hence swap | 01:53 |
| AStorm | oh, this | 01:53 |
| EvilGuru | a month of constant swapping = unhappy flash memory | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | Have I told you guys about the "Mugen power battery" I bought for my N800? :P | 01:54 |
| AStorm | did it work? | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: you opened it up and found 3 alkaline AAAs? | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | Not quite | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | It was advertised as 1800mAh | 01:54 |
| ShadowJK | I pop it in, and the battery identifies itself to the tablet as 1200mAh | 01:55 |
| EvilGuru | SpeedEvil: According to youtube *every* battery is a linear combination of AA and AAA ;) | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | A discharge/charge/discharge cycle later, and indeed, the real capacity of the battery is close to 1200mAh :) | 01:55 |
| ShadowJK | the missing 600mAh were eaten by the marketing trolls | 01:55 |
| MaceN8x0 | video works great on an n810 | 01:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | wish it had an atsc tuner | 01:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 01:56 |
| EvilGuru | DVB > atsc | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - I have some li-ion cells that do that. | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: (from dealextreme - claimes 2400 - real ~1500) | 01:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 01:57 |
| ShadowJK | What's up with the chinese giving lithium batteries names with "fire" in them | 01:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | SpeedEvil, arent most like that? | 01:57 |
| ShadowJK | kinda ominous | 01:57 |
| SpeedEvil | MaceN8x0: not if you buy sony/panasonic/... - or decent brands generally (if legit) | 01:59 |
| * lcuk2 laughs evily | 01:59 | |
| ShadowJK | There's also this guy in Hongkong that has decent cells | 01:59 |
| Firebird | what?! SpeedEvil 4.3v is a fully charged li-po, I charge all my pack's to that | 01:59 |
| MaceN8x0 | so i shouldnt expect 15hrs from my touch book? | 02:00 |
| ShadowJK | Firebird, they wouldn't last long enough in a phone when charged to 4.3 :) | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Firebird: I charge my li-ions to 5V (oops). Needed to throw away 6 cells due to that. | 02:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | who said they made the new battery? | 02:00 |
| AStorm | did nokia release the rundown time of n900? | 02:00 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, it's in a pdf somewhere | 02:00 |
| AStorm | hm, where? | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | rundown time is _so_ software dependant I wouldn't be surprised if they're still tweaking. | 02:00 |
| Firebird | ShadowJK, they last pretty long as RC batteries, 3.7 is like cell death or close to | 02:01 |
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| AStorm | 3.7 is still alive | 02:01 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah but you don't fly your RC daily :) | 02:01 |
| Firebird | heh | 02:01 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: for non-power uses | 02:01 |
| AStorm | correct | 02:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | AStorm: you can't take out any appreciable energy at C20 then though | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm... they are showing a doctor who said vaccines cause autism | 02:01 |
| AStorm | MaceN8x0: as a quack? | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | sort of | 02:02 |
| ShadowJK | The most the N800/N810 and N900 will face is 1/2C :) | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I thought that guy had recanted. | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | he believes he is right ;) | 02:02 |
| Firebird | wonder if anyone's ever puffed their N8x0 batteries | 02:02 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: more like 0.8C | 02:02 |
| AStorm | Firebird: I did, hey | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | dont think so | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Mace: the one that has killed several kids in the UK you mean? | 02:03 |
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| AStorm | it didn't explode, but did bulge | 02:03 |
| Firebird | ah | 02:03 |
| AStorm | good design | 02:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | it is on nbc | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | (due to lack of vaccination) | 02:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | im waiting on the bears game | 02:03 |
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| AStorm | yeah, I wonder who would buy this stuff the guy was telling | 02:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | no, he says the vaccine causes autism | 02:03 |
| ShadowJK | There's this place on the intarwebs selling LiFePo4 packs in the kWh size :( | 02:04 |
| * ShadowJK wants | 02:04 | |
| AStorm | and I say "prove it rigorously, double-blind test" | 02:04 |
| ShadowJK | though I have no idea what I'd use them forf | 02:04 |
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| AStorm | ShadowJK: an electric car | 02:04 |
| AStorm | or an electric bike | 02:04 |
| EvilGuru | MaceN8x0: Is this to do with the MMR? | 02:04 |
| AStorm | or a large UPS, in a pinch | 02:04 |
| EvilGuru | AStorm: UPS tend to prefer good ole lead acid, or kinetic-based solutions | 02:05 |
| AStorm | gel battery | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: Screw LiFePo4. I want eestor. | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | eestor? | 02:06 |
| AStorm | that new lithium tech | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: It's a wierd 2KV _high_ density capacitor. | 02:06 |
| AStorm | ah, a supercap | 02:06 |
| AStorm | disregard these | 02:06 |
| AStorm | still too low density | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: that conventional wisdom say can't work. No - supercap in normal use is electrolytic double layer thing. This is ceramic. And better than li-ion. | 02:06 |
| AStorm | the new lithium tech is great, 10% more capacity, extremely fast charge, much less heat | 02:06 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5249 this would power an UPS long time :( | 02:07 |
| AStorm | and huge voltage output possible | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: infinite charge life as good or better than li-ion energy density almost infinite power density. | 02:07 |
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| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, I'm sure the geeks are having fun with it in their labs. Bastards. | 02:07 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: heat? | 02:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eestor - if it's real - it is going to _totally_ revolutionise many things. | 02:08 |
| AStorm | it's likely not real or too expensive | 02:08 |
| AStorm | the new li-ion is ready for cars now | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | which new are you talking about? | 02:09 |
| AStorm | it doesn't lose charge over time | 02:09 |
| AStorm | that MIT nanostructure one | 02:09 |
| AStorm | it is already in production | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | So it'll be 3-5 years before battery nerds can buy cars or whatever just to harvest those batteries | 02:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: nope | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | and further 3-5 years before you can actually buy them :) | 02:09 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: you can buy them already | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: go to ebay get a DC9360 pack | 02:10 |
| AStorm | and nerds have built a bike on these | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: 10 2.2Ah cells that can discharge at about C50 over and over again | 02:10 |
| AStorm | they're expensive though right now - lack of mass production | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: (powertool pack - dewalt) | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | Dewalt... isn't this A123? | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | I thought you were talking about something newer :) | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume that's what AStorm meant. | 02:11 |
| AStorm | probably | 02:11 |
| AStorm | but I wasn't talking about a huge pack | 02:11 |
| AStorm | but that new battery structure with nanolanes | 02:11 |
| AStorm | it's applicable for all sizes | 02:11 |
| AStorm | charge time = 0,01 of current li-ion | 02:12 |
| ShadowJK | The A123 stuff is great in powertools, but not that useful in PEDs :) | 02:12 |
| AStorm | discharge over time is about 5% of current | 02:12 |
| * brbrbr warmly greet everyone | 02:12 | |
| AStorm | let me find it, I guess it has hit /. too | 02:12 |
| AStorm | http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/battery-hybrid.html | 02:13 |
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| AStorm | combine with this: | 02:14 |
| AStorm | http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/battery-material-0311.html | 02:14 |
| * ShadowJK wonders when Toyota will upgrade to LiFePo4 :-) | 02:14 | |
| ShadowJK | they're using nimh right now | 02:15 |
| AStorm | never, because LiMn is better | 02:15 |
| AStorm | :P | 02:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: debatable. | 02:16 |
| ShadowJK | Both are a bit too new to really know which one is more durable | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: If you could fully charge your phone in 5 mins not 1h. | 02:16 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: with the new battery, in seconds. | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: that may for some users offset the raw lower battery life. | 02:16 |
| AStorm | so LiFePo4 is already obsolete | 02:16 |
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| ShadowJK | AStorm, but it will still take a few years before someone else reinvents that fancy new one, so that there can be more than one manufacturer with a patent portfolio deadlock, pushing prices down | 02:17 |
| AStorm | hehehe | 02:18 |
| AStorm | it's already being made at... ok prices | 02:18 |
| AStorm | for a new tech | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | For cellphones - the price isn't important. | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | In that 1Ah at $10 isn't an issue. | 02:19 |
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| ShadowJK | Imagine the size of the charge controller and all the wires if you want to charge in 5 seconds :) | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | For cars - that's a really annoying price. | 02:19 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: yeah, now the current would be immense | 02:19 |
| AStorm | meaning huge wires | 02:19 |
| AStorm | minutes is more real | 02:19 |
| AStorm | (something like 10A burst - possible to make) | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | (which = 5 mins for a 800mAh battery) | 02:21 |
| ShadowJK | I suspect it'll be witricity before superfast charging :P | 02:22 |
| AStorm | witricity is neat, but still short range | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Also for a 300W (30s) charger - the charger gets quite large. | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | wireless electricity is contact only. | 02:22 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: WRONG. | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | And inherently lowish power. | 02:22 |
| AStorm | read up. | 02:22 |
| AStorm | like 60W lightbulb at 10m | 02:22 |
| AStorm | fairly lowish, but for a cellphone... | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: I believe that some of the claims for that are flat-out lies and fraud. | 02:23 |
| AStorm | no, that has been demonstrated | 02:23 |
| AStorm | including the presence of standing carrier waves | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: You may be able to get that to work in a sanitised environment with no metallic components. | 02:23 |
| ShadowJK | lowish power in all practical situations, but if you can cover buildings and your car, then your phone will be getting a trickle of power almost 24/7 | 02:23 |
| AStorm | nope, because it doesn't interact with anything not tuned to the frequency | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Bullshit. | 02:23 |
| AStorm | ... it's hard physics | 02:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Metals are not selective in frequency - resonance has to be engineered or occur naturally. Many objects will have RF currents flowing at them at a wide range of frequencies. | 02:24 |
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| AStorm | including the presence of standing carrier waves# 2008: Intel reproduces Nikola Tesla's 1894 implementation and Prof. John Boys group's 1988's experiments by wirelessly powering a nearby light bulb with 75% efficiency.[23] | 02:25 |
| AStorm | hello? | 02:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yellow | 02:25 |
| AStorm | nearby is some meters | 02:25 |
| AStorm | this is extended near field coupling | 02:25 |
| AStorm | quite a trick | 02:25 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: I'm not saying it can't be done in a lab. I'm saying that it can't be done in a real environment with many cabled devices. | 02:26 |
| AStorm | it can be done, but not sure if the receiver will be light enough | 02:26 |
| AStorm | might work for a mobile charging port | 02:26 |
| AStorm | or for a laptop | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: link to the above? 60GHz or so steered beams are 'easy' - given good 60GHz tech that makes 128 or so channel transmitters cheap. | 02:27 |
| AStorm | http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39008/113/ | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | For charging pads that you throw stuff onto - there is almost no issue. | 02:27 |
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| AStorm | bah, sucky link | 02:28 |
| AStorm | I'll find a better one | 02:28 |
| AStorm | http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/wireless-0607.html | 02:28 |
| AStorm | note - MHz frequencies | 02:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | rcadden is still officially a fool. | 02:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | AStorm: The field only cancels at long ranges. And wires within the charging volume will still pick up and distort the field. How well will HDMI/... cables cope if you induce 34V@5MHz? | 02:32 |
| AStorm | it won't induce | 02:32 |
| AStorm | they're not tuned to the resonant frequency | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Resonance is only required if you want to efficiently extract power from it. Not if you want to reduce the effect to uselessness. | 02:34 |
| AStorm | yes, it will induce something | 02:34 |
| AStorm | but that something is extremely low energy | 02:34 |
| AStorm | I suspect less than a typical wifi transmitter | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: anyway - this would be more appropriate in ##electronics - I don't see much point in debating it here. I think the above - if presented as a working device for use in homes - wouldn't work at all due to it interfering with, and being shorted out by metallic elements. | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: I may well be utterly wrong. | 02:35 |
| AStorm | yeah, and my physicist friend might be too in his rough calculations | 02:36 |
| AStorm | :) | 02:36 |
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| AStorm | SpeedEvil: again, metallic elements don't block it as well as you'd expect in normal transmission (e.g. radio waves) | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Neglecting completely the volume of the reciever coil - which needs to be substantil to get a decent 'Q' (unless you find superconductors) or the howls of protest from the 'EM is evil' brigade. | 02:37 |
| AStorm | the latter might be a problem | 02:37 |
| AStorm | volume of the coil is likely not | 02:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | AStorm: That is - as I understand it - only true in limited cases. And the volume of the coil needs to be there to get Q - as it needs to be low resistance - and absenting superconductors... | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | (this is all from when I looked at doing this 8 years or so ago using basically the same setup and found problems) | 02:38 |
| zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: I love that he basically slags us all off but still gets to go to shit like Nokia World and probably will get a prerelease N900.. even after ignoring us or insulting us all this time. | 02:38 |
| AStorm | hehehe | 02:39 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs at bloggers. | 02:39 | |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: I'll check it out | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, I love that he comes back then tells us we're all pieces of shit. | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who don't give a damn about real users. | 02:39 |
| sharpneli | The term "Near field" also spells it out quite well. The distance between receiving and transmitting coil needs to be in order of the coil size. | 02:39 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs at time - on reflection more like 12) | 02:39 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is demonstrably false. | 02:39 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: extended near field | 02:39 |
| AStorm | original near field was smaller than the transmitter | 02:40 |
| javispedro | something weird is on tmo | 02:40 |
| javispedro | http://talk.maemo.org/search.php | 02:40 |
| zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: Planning on responding? | 02:40 |
| sharpneli | AStorm: Yeah whatever. It still works only on relatively close distances. | 02:40 |
| AStorm | this is... similar principle, but differently (resonance and standing waves) | 02:40 |
| javispedro | check the tag cloud of http://talk.maemo.org/search.php | 02:40 |
| AStorm | yeah, like some meters for a not too large coil | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, in the process, and not feeling very charitable. | 02:41 |
| sharpneli | AStorm: We simulated that with a friend few years ago. Yeah it works but it has problems. | 02:41 |
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| sharpneli | We got the same result as the demonstrations did that is ;p | 02:41 |
| AStorm | yeah, that is easy | 02:41 |
| sharpneli | It's very sensitive to orientation of the coils also. Which makes it tad difficult for mobile chargers. | 02:42 |
| AStorm | the trick is to tune a standing wave | 02:42 |
| AStorm | for the distance | 02:42 |
| AStorm | you have to design a special coil to have omnidirectional transfer | 02:42 |
| sharpneli | And how would you do that?-) | 02:42 |
| AStorm | a ball of wire | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: that will actually win you the nobel prize. | 02:42 |
| AStorm | no, it won't, it's been done | 02:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | AStorm: As it is a fundamental unsoluble problem. | 02:43 |
| sharpneli | Can you give the source for that statement? | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: The easy way round it is 3 orthogonal coils. | 02:43 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: yes | 02:43 |
| AStorm | with some loss of efficiency | 02:43 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: They have to be connected together which means that it actually nullifies itself ;p | 02:43 |
| AStorm | no, as long as they broadcast on the same frequency, all is fine | 02:44 |
| sharpneli | Can anyone give the source for that? I really want to see the design. I cant be certain it cannot be done with active components but with purely passive components it simply cannot be done. | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: sorry - 3 orthoganal coils with appropriate stuff - phase shift hardware to shift the phase to one phase for all of them then a diode bridge | 02:44 |
| AStorm | it might be tricky to tune them | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: or 3 diode bridges. | 02:45 |
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| sharpneli | Probably possible, still wont help one visualize it without the actual design. | 02:45 |
| javispedro | wow. people coming to tmo to basically say "I hate you all". | 02:45 |
| javispedro | in a PC manner, but anyway. | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Hairy Ball problem. Wikipedia Hairy Ball | 02:48 |
| sharpneli | That's a really neat way to state it. | 02:49 |
| AStorm | yeah, did I say it has to be mathematically perfect omnidirectional? | 02:49 |
| AStorm | it has to be good enough | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojayPC, done. | 02:50 |
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| sharpneli | Any practical coil design will have nullpoints. Which still means that on some orientations the device wont pick anything up. | 02:50 |
| AStorm | yes, but if the device is large enough and the holes small enough... | 02:51 |
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| AStorm | EvilTor? :) | 02:51 |
| sharpneli | Um. I meant null in the direction pattern. Not any spatial null. | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil1 | Also - it means the 'sharply coupled' nature drops out. | 02:51 |
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| AStorm | no, it does not, because you can still tune | 02:52 |
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| AStorm | tuning takes time though | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Can you expand on what you mean by 'tune' | 02:52 |
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| sharpneli | We simulated those conditions. It starts to suck really quickly when it's not on optimal orientation / distance. | 02:52 |
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| AStorm | find the resonant frequency, which will be close enough to ideal | 02:53 |
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| AStorm | (or rather, rated) | 02:53 |
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| vladovg | hi | 02:54 |
| sharpneli | Yeah except the power transfer capabilities start to suck really quickly. | 02:55 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: it won't work when you're moving fast due to doppler effects | 02:55 |
| AStorm | no, they don't, because there's still resonance (which you've tuned) | 02:55 |
| AStorm | the whole problem is finding that frequency for the right distance/orientation combo | 02:55 |
| sharpneli | Um yeah. The Q value goes down quite quickly. | 02:56 |
| sharpneli | Which means more power wasted. | 02:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | EvilGuru, it was | 02:56 |
| AStorm | Q value of the simple coil, yes, but you're changing it | 02:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | it is almost over now | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Err - doppler is utterly irrelevant. | 02:56 |
| sharpneli | ? | 02:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | im just waiting on the football game | 02:56 |
| AStorm | add communication between the transmitter and receiver | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: you can't. Q is set by the resistance of the coil. | 02:56 |
| AStorm | to pick correct frequencies | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: and the operating frequency. | 02:57 |
| sharpneli | AStorm: How do you change the Q value? | 02:57 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: how do you tune radios? | 02:57 |
| AStorm | :P | 02:57 |
| sharpneli | :D | 02:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | ķ | 02:57 |
| sharpneli | Okey :D | 02:57 |
| MaceN8x0 | oops | 02:57 |
| sharpneli | AStorm: What is Q value? :) | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: by a means that is unrelated to this. | 02:57 |
| sharpneli | And what does it have to do with resonance? | 02:57 |
| AStorm | Q value is the width of the transmission band, so to say | 02:57 |
| sharpneli | :DDDD | 02:57 |
| AStorm | short version | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: typically today - a PLL ran from a 32KHz or few MHz oscillator and a frac-n synth. | 02:57 |
| AStorm | correct | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Q is the 'perfection' of the coil. | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: A circuit with infinite Q will ring forever. | 02:58 |
| MaceN8x0 | blah | 02:58 |
| sharpneli | And in short version you oughta said "Width of the transmission band is inverse of Q" | 02:58 |
| AStorm | also correct :) | 02:58 |
| AStorm | you want extreme narrowband | 02:58 |
| sharpneli | Basically you shortened it to mean complete falsehood. | 02:59 |
| AStorm | I've... messed up (again, inverted the definition) | 02:59 |
| sharpneli | Yep in this case the higher the Q ratio the less power is wasted. | 02:59 |
| sharpneli | So when the Q ratio goes down we simply start to waste more power. | 02:59 |
| AStorm | the whole trick is to have a good compromise between size and Q | 03:00 |
| AStorm | it has to be large enough | 03:00 |
| sharpneli | As the resonance between the two coils is not as good as it's in ideal case. | 03:00 |
| AStorm | yes, just reduced efficiency | 03:00 |
| AStorm | if you're near enough the peak, the loss is not too much | 03:00 |
| AStorm | I think it is exponential or so | 03:01 |
| sharpneli | Yeah but that requires good orientation. | 03:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | game is on | 03:01 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: which is possible if you have for example an array of transmitters | 03:01 |
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| sharpneli | If the orientation is wrong -> Q ratio goes down -> resonance peak widens -> the efficiency drops a lot. | 03:02 |
| sharpneli | Yeah | 03:02 |
| sharpneli | It's a system which could work with lots of active processing and communication between the devices. | 03:02 |
| AStorm | not all that much, just "pick channel" and signal power measurement | 03:03 |
| sharpneli | And it most definitely requires communication. Otherwise the transmitter could find a peak from my computer case and start to heat that up :D | 03:03 |
| AStorm | yes | 03:03 |
| AStorm | since we're talking about cell phones... use GSM for this | 03:03 |
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| sharpneli | Ah the latencies | 03:04 |
| AStorm | not high enough, unless you're moving the device very fast | 03:04 |
| sharpneli | Think about when it's on your pocket and how often you change your direction. | 03:04 |
| AStorm | :) | 03:04 |
| AStorm | it'll get a respectable charge up every so often | 03:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey! | 03:05 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles: Ho! | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 03:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wrong window on the wrong computer. | 03:05 |
| sharpneli | I just wonder how much power we'll have to send just to compensate the constant gsm radio usage :D | 03:05 |
| AStorm | not that much | 03:06 |
| AStorm | for lower usage, you could use bluetooth | 03:06 |
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| sharpneli | Most likely the efficiency of that kind of system would suck badly (eg. On average < 0.05) | 03:06 |
| Luke-Jr | I would like a 24 hour webcam disguised as a working pen, that transmits a continuous stream over GSM with a buffer in case it's out of range for 30 mins.... | 03:06 |
| AStorm | excellent spying device | 03:08 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: for BT: Class 2 2.5 mW (4 dBm) ~10 meters | 03:08 |
| Luke-Jr | AStorm: you know of one? | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: I plan to sell something related - 2*2*2cm wireless solar camera. | 03:09 |
| sharpneli | AStorm: How is that relevant? | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: not designed for constant motion though. | 03:09 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: the kind of power required in this range | 03:09 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: wireless anywhere? | 03:09 |
| Luke-Jr | o | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: no - 10m range. | 03:09 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: I basically want to record everything I do. | 03:10 |
| Luke-Jr | I'm sick of people slandering me and accusing me of things I never did/said. | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: yeah - I've thought of that. | 03:10 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: quite easy to get over unity | 03:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: Add face recognition - and it's awesome. | 03:10 |
| sharpneli | AStorm: The actual bt chip uses a lot more than that. I'd love to see a transmitter working with 1 efficiency. | 03:10 |
| AStorm | and resonant coupling won't work much farther anyway | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: with a HUD in glasses. | 03:10 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: yeah, like 15 mW | 03:10 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: yes, a wearable is ideal, but I'm not sure how practical it is :þ | 03:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: 'you last saw this person ^ on the 15th of april - when you tripped them up accidentally. The weapon in their right hand is an AK47 with an extended capacity magazine' | 03:11 |
| Luke-Jr | :D | 03:12 |
| sharpneli | AStorm: My point with the low efficiency was that recharging devices with these takes a lot of power. You'll have to pump out buttload of joules to get even few actually stored at the battery. | 03:12 |
| javispedro | what is "abject vitriole"? | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, lots of bile. | 03:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | A spiteful negative reaction | 03:13 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: sounds like one of the defences against libel in the UK | 03:13 |
| javispedro | should have guessed so. | 03:13 |
| javispedro | thanks. | 03:13 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: yes, this is true, you could use a capacitor as an intermediary if necessary | 03:13 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: you can't libel someone by simple abuse - it has to be of a defamatory nature. | 03:13 |
| AStorm | at very least it will reduce battery drain | 03:14 |
| AStorm | sharpneli: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy use this | 03:15 |
| AStorm | in the Bluetooth 3 connectionless mode | 03:15 |
| AStorm | (for lower latency) | 03:15 |
| sharpneli | The big thing I'm asking is that what is the problem this solves? | 03:15 |
| AStorm | reducing power usage of a constantly running transmitter for tuning | 03:16 |
| AStorm | if they could light a bulb, you can easily send a few watts | 03:16 |
| AStorm | which might be enough for more power efficient devices | 03:17 |
| sharpneli | Yeah. Except the light bulb was stationary. Most importantly it did not turn all the time. | 03:17 |
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| sharpneli | And sorry. I did not mean the "problem this solves" for the bluetooth case. | 03:18 |
| MaceN8x0 | blah | 03:18 |
| sharpneli | I meant it completely for the wireless power supply. Considering the current limitations I have hard time seeing if it can be of any use. | 03:19 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 03:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, i.e., very little to do with my post. | 03:20 |
| javispedro | agreed. | 03:20 |
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| AStorm | sharpneli: if the omnidirectionality is made to work in the few meter range... it could be very useful, wouldn't it | 03:22 |
| sharpneli | In that case yeah it would be useful. Btw. The most likely opposition for it comes from the green crowd. | 03:23 |
| SpeedEvil | In reality - at ranges outside the nearest field region - you will be struggling _hard_ to hit 10% efficiency. | 03:24 |
| sharpneli | If they bother to campaign for disconnecting chargers when not in use they'll sure as hell will campaign against lot's of increased power usage vs minor convenience gain. | 03:24 |
| sharpneli | Yyap. | 03:24 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles, I hope this guy at least keeps an eye on maemo.org (instead of leaving because he's not a developer) or else he's going to start with the "nokia switches to qt maemo is death ohnoes" rumours. | 03:25 |
| javispedro | ("he's not a developer" should go quoted) | 03:26 |
| javispedro | cause I've already read a "microb sucks" comment somewhere... | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, yeah, the 10 awesome things about Maemo post on his blog. | 03:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 03:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | there is no such thing as "green" | 03:28 |
| javispedro | somewhere else I meant (people are actually _listening_ to him) | 03:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | it's just another hypocrasy | 03:28 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: 25% is good enough | 03:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | people drives hybrid cars | 03:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | don't realize that some chinese slave miner in a nickel mine | 03:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | is making their car battery | 03:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | not to mention the fumes released in such plants | 03:29 |
| sharpneli | Hey, slave miner's dont pollute much ;) | 03:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | sharpneli, yeah. but then they have to ship them | 03:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | in their giant fuel guzzling ship overseas | 03:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | so by the time it actually gets here. the "green savings" are all but lost during the life span of the car | 03:30 |
| sharpneli | Source for that statement? | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | not to mention the later disposal of the cars | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | which contain a ton of nickel based chemicals | 03:30 |
| sharpneli | Especially the ship fuel usage vs car fuel usage savings. | 03:30 |
| javispedro | I really dislike those kinds of sites ("10 things to waste your time reading on while we show our cool ads") but mainstream seems to like them (e.g. most sites linked by digg) | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 03:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | sharpneli, i will have to do research but i am sure that a lot is lost by the actual shipment of parts for the car | 03:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | especially if they arrive in different shipments | 03:31 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: we're talking low power devices, which is say 10W max | 03:31 |
| javispedro | marketing. it will always be a mistery to me. | 03:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | which i am sure they do | 03:31 |
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| MaceN8x0 | so honestly. there is no such thing as green | 03:31 |
| AStorm | you'll get 40W drain per device, not too bad | 03:31 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: Ofcourse you'll do a comparison between non hybrid car also. | 03:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | true "green" people live in the woods | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: Sure - 100W input at 10% efficiency. | 03:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | and live off the land | 03:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | with no electricity and no gadgets, no car, etc | 03:32 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: 10% efficiency is rather pessimistic | 03:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | even solar panels polute | 03:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | when production is taken into account | 03:32 |
| AStorm | are we still talking about few meters range? | 03:32 |
| AStorm | MaceN8x0: not as bad as they did earlier | 03:32 |
| sharpneli | Yeah they do. They pollute less than previous methods. And we've come a long way from the days of acid rain etc, which is nice :) | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: 10% is pessimistic - based on what detailed electromagnetic simulation of a realistic environment? | 03:33 |
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| MaceN8x0 | production and shipment of "green" parts make them moot | 03:33 |
| AStorm | SpeedEvil: heh | 03:33 |
| AStorm | I don't have these numbers :) | 03:33 |
| AStorm | I'd have to actually build and experiment | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: so you can't say that 10% is optimistic or pessimistic. I'd be quite prepared to believe efficiencies in the range 0.1%-50% for a 'realistic' setup. | 03:34 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: Why do green parts have so much bigger shipment and production penalties than 'regular' parts? | 03:34 |
| MaceN8x0 | they don't. but they are marketd as being "green" | 03:34 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: Eg. Why does green part take so much more fuel to manufacture and transport? | 03:34 |
| MaceN8x0 | when in reality they are just a little less | 03:34 |
| MaceN8x0 | when all the factors are taken into consideration | 03:34 |
| sharpneli | Actually it's not only a 'little' less. But yeah it's true. And that was news for you? | 03:35 |
| MaceN8x0 | no :) i'm just against false marketing | 03:35 |
| MaceN8x0 | like the 1000MB terabyte | 03:35 |
| sharpneli | Hmm. Roughly how much fuel does a generic containership consume for one trip from china to your western country of choice? | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: not that much per kilo. | 03:36 |
| sharpneli | Rough estimates are ok. | 03:36 |
| MaceN8x0 | they use sails | 03:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, it wasn't really a bad article and would've been a nice introduction to what Fremantle is all about for newbies except he got all of the technical details dead wrong | 03:36 |
| * MaceN8x0 grins | 03:36 | |
| MaceN8x0 | i dunno. let me see if i can find out | 03:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | then instead of correcting them he uses the opportunity to make uninformed digs at MicroB and Modest. | 03:36 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles, it's all part of the show. | 03:36 |
| sharpneli | So you dont know but yet you claimed that the hybrid fuel saving is nullified by the gas guzzling ship?-) | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: google 'CO2 per ton-mile' | 03:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, the interesting thing I've discovered after being on the "other" side of what's being covered by various journalistic agencies over the years is that most reporting is just plain wrong. | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: my internet is being slow. | 03:37 |
| javispedro | I'm just checking a random 10-worse-movies thing from Digg, and everytime I read the one-liner describing the movie I get this feel the guy didn't actually watched the movie but just read the wikipedia summary. | 03:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is a scary thought considering how many people take the stuff at face value. | 03:38 |
| MaceN8x0 | http://green.autoblog.com/2009/06/02/a-single-container-ship-may-emit-as-much-as-50-million-cars/ | 03:39 |
| sharpneli | Ah you yankees and your funny units of measurements ;p | 03:39 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles, yeah, I noticed it too. The Slashdot inaccuracy seemed like a one-letter typo vs what the local press here reported. | 03:39 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 03:39 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: "cancer and asthma-causing chemicals as 50m cars" | 03:40 |
| javispedro | For a start, they all eat the "1 GiB RAM" without any doubt. | 03:40 |
| sharpneli | Which is NOT the same as fuel usage. | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, first time I noticed it was when a local news station did a piece on the elementary school I attended | 03:40 |
| sharpneli | They just use shittier fuel | 03:40 |
| MaceN8x0 | i thought the point was the actual contamination of the enviroment? | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | They didn't get a single name right and most of the stuff they said had little or no relation to reality. | 03:40 |
| MaceN8x0 | which is what the point of hybrid cars was :) | 03:41 |
| MaceN8x0 | i shouldn't hav said in realition to fuel consumption | 03:41 |
| MaceN8x0 | but emissions | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | sharpneli, Yankees? http://yankees.mlb.com/ | 03:41 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: "Shipping is responsible for 3.5% to 4% of all climate change emissions" | 03:41 |
| SpeedEvil | A source says 6*10^12 ton-miles for 37*10^6 tons of fuel. for container ships. | 03:41 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 03:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | SpeedEvil, and how many cars can a typical ship carry? | 03:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 03:42 |
| MaceN8x0 | anyways. point is that unless the cars are producted locally and delivered by hybrid trucks... they are moot | 03:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Or 4*10^7/6*10^12 = 6 grams of fuel per ton-mile. | 03:43 |
| MaceN8x0 | like ethanol | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | (http://www.sof.or.jp/en/activities/index6_3.php) | 03:43 |
| * lcuk2 sighs | 03:43 | |
| lcuk2 | i think liqbase just found its style | 03:43 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: Considering that cars are quite a big greenhouse gas producers the tens of percents of improvement produced by them completely trumps all the shipping induced greenhouse gases | 03:44 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: Even if we count ALL of the worlds shipping against hybrid cars. | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Say a cars non-local parts weigh a ton - and come 4000 miles - that's 24Kg of fuel - 30l or so - a small fraction of the resultant cars fuel usage in one fillup even. | 03:44 |
| sharpneli | Which is ridiculous. | 03:44 |
| javispedro | lcuk2, I tried liqtorch today. really very useful app :) I like the "on" animation | 03:44 |
| lcuk2 | javispedro, :) | 03:44 |
| lcuk2 | thats just one | 03:44 |
| javispedro | i plan to try the liqbase api someday, to get the feel | 03:45 |
| lcuk2 | to test the waters and try to iron out bugs | 03:45 |
| MaceN8x0 | sharpneli, as well as increased nickel mining and production? | 03:45 |
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| lcuk2 | javispedro :) liqbase has found its style | 03:45 |
| SpeedEvil | The much larger number is total CO2 from employees. You have to count the employees total CO2 output for the hours they are making the car or its parts. | 03:45 |
| lcuk2 | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_012038.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png | 03:45 |
| MaceN8x0 | not to mention the actual taking of the cars to the ship | 03:45 |
| MaceN8x0 | do they just have 3287466846 people lifting them by hand? | 03:46 |
| javispedro | not bad, i'd put a border to buttons | 03:46 |
| sharpneli | I have a hunch that you're just pulling stuff up. Provide real sources. | 03:46 |
| MaceN8x0 | i suppose that is a very green way to do things | 03:46 |
| lcuk2 | javispedro, but that is the exact same layout style i normally use | 03:46 |
| MaceN8x0 | sharpneli, i will work on it and put it somewhere ;) | 03:46 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'm sure i have a valid argument | 03:46 |
| lcuk2 | just instead of silly boxen, it has grad fills | 03:46 |
| lcuk2 | dynamically blended :) | 03:46 |
| MaceN8x0 | that "green" thus far has been marketing | 03:46 |
| MaceN8x0 | and benefits are minimal | 03:46 |
| javispedro | lcuk2, yeah, but without borders they don't seem to look like buttons... | 03:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | but the typical "green" argument is that ANY change is better | 03:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | sharpneli, just stick around and i'll put it up somewhere soon with sources provided | 03:47 |
| MaceN8x0 | good sources ;) not "oilmonger.com" stuff | 03:47 |
| javispedro | lcuk2, don't take mee too seriously tho ;) | 03:48 |
| lcuk2 | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_014844.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png | 03:50 |
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| javispedro | I appreciate the postcard ;P | 03:51 |
| lcuk2 | :) | 03:51 |
| lcuk2 | next, upload to liqbase.net :) | 03:51 |
| lcuk2 | to match with: | 03:51 |
| lcuk2 | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_net_preview.png | 03:52 |
| javispedro | hehe | 03:52 |
| javispedro | the interface of the playground is too hard btw | 03:52 |
| lcuk2 | i like having a decent base to stand on :) | 03:52 |
| javispedro | i couldn't figure out what the "right menu" seems to do | 03:52 |
| lcuk2 | dont fret | 03:52 |
| lcuk2 | apps are standalone | 03:52 |
| lcuk2 | or combined | 03:52 |
| lcuk2 | and searching is a piece of piss | 03:52 |
| lcuk2 | if in the playground, just type "post" and you get postcard machine | 03:53 |
| lcuk2 | if you like it, keep it on desktop | 03:53 |
| lcuk2 | if not just run whenever | 03:53 |
| lcuk2 | you can have variations available | 03:53 |
| lcuk2 | and i could have 10 different postcard machines | 03:53 |
| lcuk2 | just like ive got 2 clocks | 03:53 |
| lcuk2 | or different little games | 03:53 |
| javispedro | and a color-changing apple. | 03:54 |
| lcuk2 | oh that, it was a lemon | 03:54 |
| woglinde | so good nite | 03:54 |
| lcuk2 | it got upgraded ages ago | 03:54 |
| sharpneli | MaceN8x0: Unfortunately I cannot stay around right now. It's almost 04:00AM here so I'm off to bed. Paste the link to priv or at some other day. Night. -> | 03:54 |
| javispedro | gnite woglinde | 03:54 |
| lcuk2 | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090526_031404.lib.scr.png | 03:54 |
| lcuk2 | better shot of what the lemon became there | 03:54 |
| woglinde | hm did I said howmuch python with twisted springpython and pyqt4 rockz? | 03:55 |
| lcuk2 | top left | 03:55 |
| javispedro | i couldn't see the iphoneish battery | 03:55 |
| javispedro | aaa | 03:55 |
| lcuk2 | no | 03:55 |
| lcuk2 | that isnt on the package | 03:55 |
| javispedro | so the lemon's color indicated charge? | 03:55 |
| lcuk2 | yeah | 03:55 |
| javispedro | lol :P | 03:55 |
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| lcuk2 | and i was crap at photoshop | 03:55 |
| lcuk2 | i needed to see if the color changing would work | 03:55 |
| lcuk2 | and test the function to make it optimal | 03:55 |
| lcuk2 | when i got it working i replaced it with a real battery | 03:56 |
| lcuk2 | but i still cant read charge | 03:56 |
| lcuk2 | i have no fucking idea | 03:56 |
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| javispedro | the "lemon" changes colour by touching it too. | 03:59 |
| lcuk2 | it just changes color when it gets rendered | 04:00 |
| lcuk2 | cheap trick | 04:00 |
| javispedro | ag, I finally got to the interestting stuff (all the .so plugins) but then crashed | 04:03 |
| lcuk2 | those are still very fragile | 04:04 |
| lcuk2 | hence them being in the back :) | 04:04 |
| lcuk2 | when i have been working on different aspects i have been bringing them to the front of the list by command line | 04:04 |
| lcuk2 | liqbase-playground-run.sh contains a command line param | 04:04 |
| lcuk2 | -showwidget | 04:04 |
| lcuk2 | and if you know the .so names of the files you want it will just show those | 04:05 |
| lcuk2 | this has changed now | 04:05 |
| javispedro | heh, lcuk_bot is calling home | 04:05 |
| lcuk2 | and when the new one is operating properly it will load selection from user ticks in the desktopmanager | 04:06 |
| lcuk2 | yeah its #liqbase-test | 04:06 |
| javispedro | closed before you use irc to convert my n810 into your evil minion ;) | 04:06 |
| lcuk2 | just to see what i could do with it | 04:06 |
| lcuk2 | nahhh it only responds with bacon and marcopolo | 04:06 |
| lcuk2 | its completely benign | 04:06 |
| lcuk2 | and you obviously chose "liqirc" :P | 04:07 |
| javispedro | of course :) | 04:07 |
| lcuk2 | it will also not disconnect until you do | 04:07 |
| lcuk2 | i fucked up on threading | 04:07 |
| lcuk2 | and have no way to stop them if they dont terminate :$ | 04:07 |
| AStorm | killall -KILL liqirc | 04:08 |
| lcuk2 | it was based on the same thread model the image loader uses - and that just fires, loads image and closes thread | 04:08 |
| * lcuk2 will need some help expaining it sometime soon :) | 04:09 | |
| AStorm | leave thread closing to the main process | 04:09 |
| AStorm | less error-prone | 04:09 |
| lcuk2 | its instance based | 04:10 |
| javispedro | it got a bit crazy now | 04:10 |
| lcuk2 | you probably went into one of the "bit crazy" mods | 04:10 |
| javispedro | yeah | 04:10 |
| javispedro | it started acting exactly like It would do if someone remotely controlled it from irc ;) | 04:11 |
| lcuk2 | ive spent a lot of time in certain modules getting them right | 04:11 |
| lcuk2 | haha | 04:11 |
| lcuk2 | review the code :) (please, help make it work!) | 04:12 |
| javispedro | one of my intentions is to help with liqreader | 04:12 |
| javispedro | but that is in the long-term agenda :( | 04:12 |
| lcuk2 | same here | 04:12 |
| lcuk2 | i have left that as a stub right now | 04:13 |
| lcuk2 | it will get my time next time i find an interesting book i want to read | 04:13 |
| javispedro | fbreader is, well, a bit worse of what my older palm offered me. | 04:14 |
| javispedro | so that is "itching" me ;) | 04:14 |
| lcuk2 | desktop manager has had a bit of an upgrade | 04:14 |
| lcuk2 | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_021207.desktopmanage_desktopmanage1.scr.png | 04:14 |
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| lcuk2 | those thumbnails are saved every time you close an instance of the program | 04:15 |
| lcuk2 | just tiny 80*48 thumbs :) | 04:15 |
| lcuk2 | but lovely to glance at | 04:16 |
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| lcuk2 | that uses the search facility i wrote for the desktop | 04:17 |
| lcuk2 | so it filters down load | 04:17 |
| lcuk2 | live ^ | 04:17 |
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| javispedro | cool :) | 04:23 |
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| zerojayPC | GAN800: Trouble in wifi land? :) | 04:26 |
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| Pavlov | hrm | 04:26 |
| GAN8001 | No, moving my RAID into my backup G5. | 04:27 |
| Pavlov | lcuk2: the online liqbase working well? | 04:28 |
| Pavlov | screenshot looks cool | 04:28 |
| lcuk2 | i got it to a workable stage | 04:28 |
| lcuk2 | i can push directly from liqbase | 04:29 |
| lcuk2 | it was about this point last time when i started to go getting a database | 04:29 |
| lcuk2 | for all the media downloads | 04:29 |
| lcuk2 | cos it went so well on the server | 04:29 |
| Pavlov | ah | 04:29 |
| lcuk2 | but the local database was shit | 04:30 |
| lcuk2 | and didnt work like it was meant to | 04:30 |
| lcuk2 | it made sketching slow work - it took ~2-3 seconds to add a record | 04:30 |
| lcuk2 | (pushing the sketch itself into the db, mind you - it ws 115mb and contained everything ive ever drawn or screenshotted | 04:31 |
| lcuk2 | i still dont know how to do download dyncing | 04:31 |
| lcuk2 | its pissin me off actually :) | 04:31 |
| lcuk2 | ill push another test package soon, but just include the known stable modules :) | 04:34 |
| lcuk2 | the rest will come with time | 04:34 |
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| zelrikriando | hello | 04:59 |
| javispedro | gnite all | 05:00 |
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| MaceN8x0 | bears are doing good | 05:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | know it is a pre season game but still | 05:12 |
| derf | The only thing that matters is who wins the first quarter. | 05:18 |
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| Macer | hm | 07:36 |
| Macer | my damn server is acting flaky as hell | 07:36 |
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| RST38h | Ok, who here complained about 1320mAh battery in N900? | 08:07 |
| RST38h | Because I have just found this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/U-Bop-PowerSURE-Performance-Battery-XpressMusic/dp/B002BXOBI6/ref=pd_cp_ce_2/275-2797910-8969514 | 08:07 |
| RST38h | 1620mAh, BL-5J dimensions | 08:07 |
| Firebird | RST38h, did you read the review? | 08:09 |
| johnx | I've never had good luck with 3rd party batteries | 08:11 |
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| RST38h | No, is it exploding on contact with fingers? | 08:13 |
| johnx | nah, usually they just work about 1/4 to 1/2 as well as a stock OEM battery | 08:13 |
| johnx | sometimes they're DOA | 08:13 |
| johnx | though that would be a cool trick to play on someone | 08:13 |
| RST38h | this one is relatively inexpensive, may be worth a try | 08:16 |
| johnx | let's see: one negative review and shipping fro the UK | 08:16 |
| johnx | hmmm | 08:16 |
| johnx | think I'll let someone else be the guinea pig :> | 08:16 |
| RST38h | hehe | 08:17 |
| RST38h | but then there is this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/RHXX3UQXFMWE | 08:17 |
| RST38h | and this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B001LOVCRO | 08:18 |
| johnx | John S. Wood...with a glowing review...pardon my pessimism, but that review sounds almost plant-like | 08:19 |
| RST38h | U-Bop seems to act as a reseller for someone | 08:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: probably is, too | 08:19 |
| slonopotamus_ | 42 posts in 'n900: isn't it too thick?'. and these people call me insane! | 08:19 |
| slonopotamus_ | morning | 08:19 |
| RST38h | heffalump: insane != stupid | 08:19 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, i know :) | 08:20 |
| johnx | yeah, signal/noise ratio is going through the floor :/ | 08:21 |
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| GAN8001 | 'Why S60 people are bad for Maemo' | 08:22 |
| johnx | I don't know if it's that so much as I'm starting to think about whether something like a "users" / "hackers" / "devs" three way split might be not the worst idea ever | 08:23 |
| * GAN8001 sighs http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318620&postcount=26 | 08:23 | |
| GAN8001 | If only he knew. | 08:24 |
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| GAN8001 | johnx, maemo.nokia.com / maemo.org / Maemo @ Forum Nokia | 08:24 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, i came to conclusion i just need to ignore nontechnical subforums | 08:25 |
| GAN8001 | johnx, and I'm talking about S60 managers and engineers. | 08:25 |
| slonopotamus | any common appproaches to measure 'battery life' on tablet? | 08:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: There is a subforum called Development | 08:26 |
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| johnx | I guess I should just view the forums through their RSS feeds | 08:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: It has not yet been occupied by trolls, so just create a few relevant threads there and enjoy | 08:26 |
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| slonopotamus | what does libgst0.10-dsp do? | 08:31 |
| johnx | probably the dsp sink for gstreamer? | 08:32 |
| Meiz_n810 | Description: DSP audio and video plugins for OSSO Gstreamer | 08:34 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, hmm. but dsp already connected to alsa, so why not just use alsa to output sound? | 08:34 |
| slonopotamus | ah, video | 08:34 |
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| slonopotamus | hmm. i don't see anything video-related in /lib/dsp/modules/ | 08:35 |
| johnx | that's correct. I don't believe the n8x0 uses the dsp for video stuff | 08:35 |
| slonopotamus | so... | 08:35 |
| slonopotamus | what does libgst0.10-dsp do? :) | 08:36 |
| johnx | it is the dsp output for gstreamer | 08:36 |
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| slonopotamus | why not just output to alsa? | 08:36 |
| johnx | I don't know precisely why | 08:36 |
| slonopotamus | it's already aware of dsp | 08:36 |
| johnx | probably to get the shortest route possible to the DSP | 08:36 |
| johnx | also, their alsa-dsp implementation proved to be a little buggy IIRC | 08:37 |
| Captain_Picard | http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/09/08/29/1934251/Pigeon-Protocol-Finds-a-Practical-Purpose | 08:38 |
| slonopotamus | i know why | 08:38 |
| slonopotamus | to do decoding on dsp | 08:38 |
| Meiz_n810 | http://pastebin.com/m1f1f4b33 | 08:39 |
| slonopotamus | if you use alsa, stream has to be already decoded | 08:39 |
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| MaceN8x0 | blah | 08:56 |
| MaceN8x0 | have to find out what is killing my server | 08:56 |
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| slonopotamus | This package contains the Acting dead UI. | 09:17 |
| slonopotamus | o_O | 09:18 |
| RST38h | And the new winner troll is... christexaport! | 09:25 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, do you still use tablet-wireless package? | 09:43 |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: yes | 10:06 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, k | 10:06 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, morning, btw. how's sound? :) | 10:07 |
| Luke-Jr | no clue | 10:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: ping | 10:15 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: ping | 10:15 |
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| tigert | huomenta | 10:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | hey | 10:37 |
| timeless_mbp | what magical word do i need to inscribe onto mail to tell posti.fi that the addressee doesn't live here? | 10:37 |
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| * timeless_mbp pokes tigert | 10:39 | |
| gomiam | timeless_mbp: unsubscribe? | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | gomiam: snail mail | 10:39 |
| timeless_mbp | personal snail mail | 10:39 |
| gomiam | oh, ok... then... unsubscribe? ;) | 10:39 |
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| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: "muuttanut toiseen osoitteeseen" | 10:40 |
| * timeless_mbp should frame that | 10:40 | |
| gomiam | Myrtti: try to speak a bit faster ;) | 10:40 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:40 |
| sarower | Good morning all, | 10:40 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: that's for "moved to another address" | 10:41 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: "vastaanottaja tuntematon" would be "unknown recipient" | 10:41 |
| sarower | Trying to activate the vibration through d-bus. But can not test in the emulator.. | 10:41 |
| sarower | Is there any way to test in the wmulator? | 10:41 |
| sarower | And I am tryinh to do it by this code: | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | Myrtti: thanks, i needed both :) | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp | sarower: device over irc would work | 10:42 |
| sarower | const gchar *pattern_name = "DevLockDelay0"; | 10:42 |
| sarower | //const gchar *pattern_name = "1;3;0;0;1000;1000;180"; | 10:42 |
| sarower | DBusConnection* connection = dbus_bus_get(DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM, NULL); | 10:42 |
| sarower | DBusMessage *msg; | 10:42 |
| sarower | msg = dbus_message_new_method_call(MCE_SERVICE, | 10:42 |
| sarower | MCE_REQUEST_PATH, | 10:42 |
| sarower | MCE_REQUEST_IF, | 10:42 |
| sarower | MCE_DEVLOCK_MODE_SIG); | 10:43 |
| sarower | 10:43 | |
| timeless_mbp | as long as it's python | 10:43 |
| sarower | dbus_message_append_args(msg, | 10:43 |
| sarower | DBUS_TYPE_STRING, &pattern_name, | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | or shell | 10:43 |
| sarower | DBUS_TYPE_INVALID); | 10:43 |
| sarower | dbus_connection_send(connection, msg, NULL); | 10:43 |
| Myrtti | sarower: pastebin, honey, pastebin | 10:43 |
| sarower | dbus_message_unref(msg); | 10:43 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't do compile over irc | 10:43 | |
| sarower | dbus_connection_flush(connection); | 10:43 |
| sarower | small code | 10:43 |
| sarower | thats why | 10:43 |
| Myrtti | hardly | 10:43 |
| Myrtti | anything over two lines isn't small | 10:43 |
| sarower | ok i will pastebin later | 10:43 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not sure what i'd say the limit is, but you exceeded it :) | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | and really, if you want it tested, it should be in python or shell | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not going to compile foreign code on a private device | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but if i can see it's relatively harmless, i might run python/shell | 10:44 |
| timeless_mbp | (dbus-send) | 10:44 |
| sarower | sure ... but i want to know whether the way is rigth or not? | 10:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | do you want to know if it works or if it's right? | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | i can only offer the former | 10:45 |
| sarower | anything | 10:45 |
| timeless_mbp | for the latter, there either is or isn't documentation | 10:45 |
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| sarower | I am confused about the "DBusConnection*".... | 10:47 |
| sarower | in other reference it looks like server = dbus_server_listen ("unix:tmpdir="DBUS_TEST_SOCKET_DIR, &error); | 10:47 |
| sarower | which one is the right? | 10:48 |
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| sarower | DBusConnection* connection = dbus_bus_get(DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM, NULL); | 10:48 |
| sarower | or | 10:48 |
| sarower | connection = dbus_connection_open (messages_address, &error); | 10:48 |
| sarower | ? | 10:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | you should read a dbus manual | 10:50 |
| sarower | but.... if you can help....thenthe cost will be less | 10:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus | 10:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/IntroductionToDBus#head-b3c65ff40e850ba5f2062a0196b334f4d68d5435 | 10:52 |
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| andre__ | timeless_mbp, pong | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: open control panel, certificates | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | does the top line (above the first certificate) look strange? | 11:11 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, known issue, filed already | 11:12 |
| andre__ | query.cgi is your friend | 11:12 |
| * timeless_mbp hearts andre__ | 11:12 | |
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| Khertan | Hello ! | 11:12 |
| Khertan | It s seems that the n900 and #maemo 5 news interest many new people ... a bit too much for maemo.org | 11:13 |
| Khertan | maemo.org isn't reasponding ... please reboot the Nokia 770 which host maemo.org :) | 11:13 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: Works for me. | 11:14 |
| timeless_mbp | Khertan: maemo.org loaded fine for me | 11:14 |
| Khertan | ?euh? | 11:14 |
| Khertan | yes it s talk.maemo.org | 11:14 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan: Ah, yeah. that happens quite often. Will be back shortly ;) | 11:14 |
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| Khertan | X-Fade: i ve got some problem too with the pygtkeditor page in downloads | 11:15 |
| Khertan | i ve edited it, as i ve modifified the version number 2.4.1 | 11:15 |
| Khertan | but it s come back to version 2.4.0-2 | 11:15 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: how do you write the web site name? | 11:15 |
| Khertan | and this two times :( | 11:15 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. "mozilla.org" | 11:16 |
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| Khertan | timeless_mbp: with letters ! | 11:16 |
| Khertan | :) | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Khertan: MAEMO.org ? | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | maEMO.oRG ? | 11:16 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Which website? | 11:16 |
| Khertan | MaEmO.OrG | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | btw "." isn't a letter | 11:16 |
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| Khertan | gnignia ... :) | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | my favorite example of that... | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | load: | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | https://account.nokia.com/acct/register?serviceId=Ovicom&lid=acctregrtnav&lang=en-US | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | in the first text area (User Name), enter ".test" | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | then click outside the text area | 11:17 |
| * timeless_mbp encourages people to try that | 11:18 | |
| Khertan | Your user name can only contain numbers and letters, not symbols. | 11:19 |
| Khertan | :) | 11:19 |
| Khertan | you can't enter a point as the first letter | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | Khertan: now read the instructions above the text area | 11:19 |
| Khertan | timeless_mbp: they should indicate too that you can't enter symbol and number as first caracter position too | 11:20 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, it's a <period> or <dot>, not <point> :) | 11:20 |
| timeless_mbp | Khertan: try _test instead of .test | 11:20 |
| timeless_mbp | or 1test | 11:20 |
| timeless_mbp | or -test | 11:20 |
| Khertan | 1test is ok | 11:20 |
| Khertan | That name is available. | 11:21 |
| Khertan | -test | 11:21 |
| Khertan | Sorry, that name isn't available. Try one of these, or enter a new one. | 11:21 |
| Khertan | :) | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | or _test | 11:21 |
| * timeless_mbp chuckles | 11:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | ovi over irc | 11:21 |
| Khertan | _test | 11:21 |
| Khertan | That name is available. | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, ovi irc sounds appealing | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | less flash! | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | faster response times | 11:22 |
| Khertan | ovi irc ? | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | well, i type something here, you're feeding it to ovi, and sending me the response, all over irc | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | and i get less flash content :) | 11:22 |
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| X-Fade | Hmmm so N900 does have a FM receiver. | 11:25 |
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| tbf | X-Fade: maybe it's just not announced. | 11:25 |
| X-Fade | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318661&postcount=451 | 11:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | X-Fade: yep, and we, as the community, have nominated you to write the app that'll utilize it | 11:25 |
| tbf | X-Fade: afair the n8x0's receiver also was a secret hardware feature | 11:26 |
| X-Fade | tbf: yeah, but then it is a different chip from which we thought was used. | 11:26 |
| X-Fade | So RDS and TMC might not be out of the question. | 11:26 |
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| andre__ | X-Fade, FM receiver? i thought a transmitter "only"? | 11:27 |
| X-Fade | andre__: Peter says no. | 11:27 |
| Khertan | there is a transmitter | 11:27 |
| andre__ | aha | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, the hardware is there | 11:28 |
| Khertan | so there will be also a receiver i think | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and it's likely the kernel won't stop you | 11:28 |
| andre__ | somebody give me an app... | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | but we didn't provide any higher layers | 11:28 |
| mavhc | why is there an fm transmitter? | 11:28 |
| X-Fade | Well that won't be a prolem. | 11:28 |
| timeless_mbp | mavhc: so you can listen to music from your car | 11:29 |
| X-Fade | mavhc: Play your audio on any radio? | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | because unlike apple, we won't be able to convince car manufacturers to install n900 ports | 11:29 |
| Khertan | <mavhc> why is there an fm transmitter? < for forcing the fm receiver in the car to just diffuse my music instead the music of my wife | 11:29 |
| Khertan | :) | 11:29 |
| mavhc | didn't they installed standard audio in ports? | 11:29 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: I have an aux-in on my car radio :) | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | aquatix: did you pay extra for it? | 11:30 |
| jaska | mine has usb and aux in... old radio would have cost like 200 eur to get aux in so i tossed it :D | 11:30 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: no, the stereo had both usb and aux-in, along with cd (which can do mp3) | 11:30 |
| mavhc | car radios with audio in are cheap, but most cars seem to make it impossible to change the radio without taking half the dashboard off | 11:30 |
| aquatix | sony thing for 140EUR or something | 11:30 |
| X-Fade | But all those solutions are _wired_ | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | besides | 11:30 |
| aquatix | even has remote | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | we're supposed to be a wireless device | 11:31 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: true | 11:31 |
| mavhc | bluetooth audio? | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | you really don't want a cable running from your phone in your pocket to your dashboard | 11:31 |
| aquatix | yeah, bluetooth would be cool | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | mavhc: only available in high end cars | 11:31 |
| aquatix | just do a2dp :) | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | that might "just work" | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | i know we spent a lot of effort improving stuff there | 11:31 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: erm, i almost bought a car radio with bluetooth | 11:31 |
| timeless_mbp | *almost* | 11:32 |
| aquatix | but not sure whether that was a2dp though | 11:32 |
| mavhc | timeless_mbp: it'd get tied up with the one to the power socket so your phone/gps/transmitter/audio player doesn't die | 11:32 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: yeah, i liked usb and aux-in better | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway | 11:32 |
| aquatix | but indeed | 11:32 |
| aquatix | FM is easiest | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the point of fm is that it will work w/ a much higher percentage of cars | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | has anyone seen a car built in the last 20 years that didn't have an fm radio? | 11:32 |
| jaska | its also lower quality than aux or digital | 11:32 |
| timeless_mbp | well, we have a headset jack | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | you're free to use it | 11:33 |
| mavhc | usb to charge and do audio out would be best | 11:33 |
| jaska | yeah, thats what i use :) | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | and there is micro usb | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not certain that usb audio works | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't tried | 11:33 |
| jaska | the radio expects mass storage | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | actually, i haven't tried fm radio either | 11:33 |
| timeless_mbp | jaska: eh? | 11:33 |
| aquatix | it might work in my car, but that means it's unmounted on the n900 itself | 11:33 |
| aquatix | jaska: indeed | 11:34 |
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| aquatix | timeless_mbp: like a usb thumbdrive | 11:34 |
| jaska | its not a "usb audio" device, it just reads fat32 usb mass storage | 11:34 |
| mavhc | the car we hired would read the n810 as mass storage and play mp3 files off it, weird | 11:34 |
| kirma | how maemo deals with swapping on flash? I mean, wear leveling and minimising amount of flash erases... | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | kirma: um | 11:34 |
| jaska | yeah, i wonder how the n900 with swap on flash is going to do | 11:34 |
| aquatix | mavhc: nah, it acted like a usb thumbdrive then | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | there are two flash volumes | 11:34 |
| mavhc | the manual said it had usb, I assumed for charging, but it had a windows logo on it | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | the primary one is managed by UBIFS | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | which does wear leveling | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | the secondary one (the 32gb thing) | 11:34 |
| timeless_mbp | has the logic built into the chip | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | at least, that's my naive understanding | 11:35 |
| aquatix | sounds logical | 11:35 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: vans and other company vehicles. | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | kirma: so, basically, "the n900 doesn't deal with it" | 11:35 |
| kirma | oh | 11:35 |
| mavhc | I want a car where the buttons can be programmed to be a bluetooth keyboard | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | "something magically works" (but not necessarily optimally) | 11:35 |
| timeless_mbp | kirma: the other approach is currently estimated at 6 months engineering effort | 11:35 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: ...where companies don't want to pay radio taxes | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | by an unspecified number of engineers (possibly 3-6) | 11:36 |
| mavhc | there's a radio tax? | 11:36 |
| kirma | I'd really like to see unified effort, but well. :/ | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: radio taxes? | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | what kind of stupid countries are these? | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | or do i really not want to know? | 11:36 |
| kirma | especially because that would allow using UBIFS efficiently on 32GB device | 11:36 |
| jaska | i think my stupid country might | 11:36 |
| timeless_mbp | wtf | 11:36 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEMA | 11:37 |
| Khertan | <timeless_mbp> what kind of stupid countries are these? <<< France too :) | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | kirma: that kinda doesn't make sense | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | Khertan: i rest my case? | 11:37 |
| * aquatix wonders whether FM transmitters are allowed in his country | 11:37 | |
| jaska | for playing radio at work or smth | 11:37 |
| X-Fade | aquatix: Yep, whole EU. | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | aquatix: typically as long as you don't exceed a certain power output/range | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | it's not an issue | 11:37 |
| aquatix | timeless_mbp: yeah, guessed so | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | UCLA got in trouble years ago iirc | 11:37 |
| timeless_mbp | their campus radio station amped up its output exceeding their license | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | and they got caught | 11:38 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: officially it's just some copyright compensation, not a tax. but in its omnipresence it feels like a tax | 11:38 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't see a difference | 11:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok so um | 11:38 |
| timeless_mbp | could someone please explain why i can't use the fm transmitter while i have usb active? | 11:39 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: additionally there are public broadcast fees: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEZ | 11:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | tbf: i don't suppose you could link to en.? | 11:39 |
| timeless_mbp | <nicht> sprechen zi deutsch | 11:39 |
| glass_ | google for history of pirate radios | 11:39 |
| jaska | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebühreneinzugszentrale | 11:39 |
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| tbf | timeless_mbp: i think you are geek enough to find Wikipedia's language links by yourself | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: yes, and i did | 11:40 |
| glass_ | a common way has been to use disposable transmitters.. | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but it's terribly inconvenient | 11:40 |
| kirma | aquatix: I believe their usage was ratified by ETSI or whatever organisation trying to create european policy couple years ago | 11:40 |
| aquatix | kirma: ah, good to know | 11:40 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: in <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebühreneinzugszentrale> | 11:41 |
| Mek | 21 | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | they write "novel broadcast ..." | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | do they mean "new" ? | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | 24 | 11:41 |
| kirma | aquatix: but IANAL :) | 11:41 |
| Mek | sorry :P | 11:41 |
| aquatix | hey Mek :) | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, was 21 a guess about radification? | 11:41 |
| aquatix | kirma: fair enough :) | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | i thought you were tossing out random numbers | 11:41 |
| Mek | no, just a random number | 11:41 |
| timeless_mbp | so i contributed :) | 11:41 |
| aquatix | Mek: half an answer? ;) | 11:42 |
| Mek | :) | 11:42 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: no, they mean "novel" in the sense of "new kind of" | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | sp^^ => ratification | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: yes, i understand | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i just don't think it works that way in English | 11:42 |
| timeless_mbp | google for: novel broadcast receiving devices | 11:43 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: originally GEZ only covered radio and tv, but then decades after invention public broadcasting stations realized that there is a new evil think like the internet... | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | the results don't indicate it's a technical term | 11:43 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: and that they need more money to also publish their crap there. | 11:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | personally, i'd parse it as "novel(book) broadcast receiving devices" | 11:43 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm aware that "novel" can have othe rmeanings, but i don't think it parses that way in that position | 11:44 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: of course you won't find that term somewhere, 'cause it's just a term invented by some greedy asses with far too much influence | 11:44 |
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| aquatix | timeless_mbp: novel way of broadcasting stuff sounds better i guess | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | aquatix: correct | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | the point is, "would someone please fix that stupid wikipedia text" | 11:45 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: German translation "Neuartige Rundfunkempfänger" sounds as awful as "novel broadcast receiving devices" | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | please? :) | 11:45 |
| Myrtti | timeless_mbp: {{sofixit}} | 11:45 |
| aquatix | Myrtti: \o/ | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | tbf: heh, not my problem, i don't have to suffer through the German :) | 11:45 |
| kirma | aquatix: oh well, I were optimistic. I suppose the change was adopted in .fi, but not otherwise as widely as I assumed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fm_transmitter#European_legality_of_FM_transmitters | 11:45 |
| aquatix | kirma: ah | 11:46 |
| aquatix | kirma: oh well, i guess they don't really make a big deal out of it here, as long as you don't act like some pirate radio station | 11:46 |
| aquatix | (arrrr) | 11:46 |
| kirma | yep. | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | the UCLA Radio bit is mentioned in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLAradio.com#History fwiw | 11:47 |
| kirma | friend once thought about connecting his home to university with highly directional wlan link... but there was one thing. the benefit of directionality would have been realistic if one ignored ETSI ERP regulations. only problem was that between his home and the university happened to be the radio lab of national research venter :P | 11:49 |
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| kirma | center | 11:49 |
| glass_ | hehe | 11:50 |
| timeless_mbp | ouch | 11:50 |
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| kirma | well, he thankfully decided not to try it :) | 11:50 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.english.ucla.edu/ucla1960s/6869/stern.htm#today | 11:52 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly that text has typos | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | and it seems like it was a student research paper | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | the scariest part is that the 6869 /might/ be the last 4 digits from an ssn :o | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | (hopefully not, i can't remember if ucla was one of those places which did that) | 11:54 |
| aquatix | kirma: :) | 11:55 |
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| mavhc | people will stop using personal information if other people stop using it to identify people with | 11:57 |
| mavhc | s/using/stealing | 11:57 |
| aquatix | indeed | 11:57 |
| * aquatix dislikes how personal info ends up online by institutions | 11:57 | |
| aquatix | or even associations | 11:58 |
| mavhc | but it shouldn't matter | 11:58 |
| mavhc | it's like using your phone number as your password | 11:58 |
| aquatix | we found my boss' address, personal phone number and more on some church site | 11:58 |
| X-Fade | lbt: Feed added to the planet. | 12:00 |
| lbt | ta | 12:00 |
| Khertan | Hum ... i ve just trying pygtkeditor in the fremantle sdk | 12:00 |
| Khertan | and x crash | 12:00 |
| Khertan | strange | 12:00 |
| mavhc | hopefully when everyone's using voip for phones we can identify via a data channel with certificates | 12:02 |
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| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 12:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | so, there's a STANDARD | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | which spells something "color" | 12:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | the british localizers helpfully localiSed the standard to "colour" | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | (the actual standard/word in question has been changed to protect the guilty" | 12:11 |
| jaska | lol | 12:11 |
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| aquatix | timeless_mbp: :) | 12:12 |
| florian | timeless_mbp: heh... in fact I guess they were lacking the context | 12:13 |
| aquatix | yeah | 12:14 |
| Khertan | Still no news about sponsored n900 programs ? | 12:14 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:14 |
| thux | RST38h: thanks for converter link, maybe can now see those recordings after all :) | 12:15 |
| X-Fade | ~seen lizardo | 12:16 |
| infobot | lizardo <n=lizardo@189.2.128.130> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 13h 8m 31s ago, saying: 'frade_home: yeah :) but only home widgets ... no status widgets yet'. | 12:16 |
| * timeless_mbp adds a paragraph long localization note | 12:19 | |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 12:20 | |
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| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 12:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | someone invented another term | 12:55 |
| lcuk2 | mornin chaps \o | 12:57 |
| lcuk2 | what have you found timeless | 12:57 |
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| lcuk2 | and are you goin to nokia world | 12:57 |
| timeless_mbp | nope, i'm comfortably in HEL | 12:58 |
| jaska | hell-sink-i | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | HEL sink I (rhymes with me) | 12:58 |
| lcuk2 | lol | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | it's actually warm in the sun here... | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | my sister left this morning :/ | 12:59 |
| lcuk2 | :( boo | 12:59 |
| glass_ | pablo made helllsinki jokes at helsinki gig | 12:59 |
| lcuk2 | now whos gonna make you good meals lol | 12:59 |
| Myrtti | pablo made bad jokes | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk2: no kidding | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | there's leftovers in the fridge | 13:00 |
| timeless_mbp | but she insists i clean out the fridge occasionally and take out the trash | 13:01 |
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| lcuk2 | yeah | 13:01 |
| lcuk2 | when cups actually grow mould that starts to talk, you know its time to cleanout | 13:01 |
| jaska | or the milk/juice crawls out of the carton | 13:01 |
| timeless_mbp | my sister made me throw out a spoon which was growing mold in a tin can in my fridge :( | 13:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | it was part of a set too :( | 13:03 |
| lcuk2 | haha | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | they didn't approve of my defense about penicillin | 13:04 |
| lcuk2 | yeah but it could just as easily wiped out the world | 13:05 |
| lcuk2 | your sister saved us all ;) | 13:05 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 13:05 | |
| timeless_mbp | so... someone needs to explain to me what this 100% invented term means | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | since it doesn't exist | 13:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't translate invented terms | 13:05 |
| lcuk2 | go for it | 13:05 |
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| AStorm | I wonder if it's the right place to ask about connman | 13:09 |
| AStorm | does it support bluetooth devices and/or ppp? | 13:09 |
| AStorm | (seems it does bluetooth PAN) | 13:10 |
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| VDVsx | ah conman, beautiful name for a app :P | 13:17 |
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| radic | qwerty12_N810: wiche was the defconfig I need for the N800? | 13:35 |
| radic | for the kernel | 13:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | nokia_2420_defconfig | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a qemu dev target for maemo5 - or is it fundamentally too slow? | 13:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: for what purpose? | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it is possible in general to do system qemu | 13:38 |
| Dieterbe | what's the best way to start hacking with maemo (5) without having any compatible hardware device? is there a good emulator? | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | (it's slow) | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | but the thing is that some versions of qemu don't support enough arm instructions to work | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | Dieterbe: personally i use virtualbox+mer | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | the official approach is to get the Maemo5 beta sdk (whatever the latest one is) | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | but i suggest eating lunch too | 13:39 |
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| AStorm | VDVsx: double n. | 13:41 |
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| X-Fade | lizardo: Ping? | 13:44 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: pong | 13:44 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: There seem to be python packages in SDK which are not in Extras-devel for fremantle. | 13:45 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: ( | 13:45 |
| X-Fade | pycairo, pygobject, pygtk, python-defaults) | 13:45 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Are you guys managing these packages? | 13:45 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: well, all those are in extras-devel ?? | 13:45 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: or they were at least last week .. | 13:45 |
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| lizardo | python-gtk2: | 13:47 |
| lizardo | Installed: (none) | 13:47 |
| lizardo | Candidate: 2.12.1-6maemo7 | 13:47 |
| lizardo | Version table: | 13:47 |
| lizardo | 2.12.1-6maemo7 0 | 13:48 |
| lizardo | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages | 13:48 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: ^ | 13:48 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: same for pycairo and python-defaults... | 13:48 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Hmm true, I wonder what the problem was about. Let me check. | 13:49 |
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| Khertan_ | Hi ... | 13:54 |
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| Khertan_n810 | still no news about sponsored travel for the maemo summit ? | 13:55 |
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| zerojayPC | What kind of news do you mean? | 13:56 |
| zerojayPC | Whether you've been accepted or not? | 13:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 13:57 |
| lcuk2 | Khertan_n810, just a mo | 13:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | as i need to organize the travel | 13:57 |
| lcuk2 | yes | 13:58 |
| Khertan_n810 | and it 's now in a month | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | but i cannot find the link to the actual confirmation | 13:58 |
| lcuk2 | i have a local saved copy | 13:58 |
| zerojayPC | I'm looking too. | 13:58 |
| zerojayPC | Here we go: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/ar.html | 13:58 |
| zerojayPC | Khertan_n810: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=315947&postcount=112 | 13:59 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s not the final decision ? | 13:59 |
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| zerojayPC | As far as I know it is... maybe you might want to ask Jaffa about that. | 14:00 |
| lcuk2 | Khertan_n810, its the internal deliberations from the grey council | 14:00 |
| lcuk2 | take it how you like | 14:00 |
| radic | thx qwerty12_N810 | 14:00 |
| lcuk2 | but i think 5 yeses is enough | 14:00 |
| zerojayPC | lol | 14:01 |
| radic | qwerty12_N810: it's located in the arch/arm/configs? | 14:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | oh great news ! | 14:01 |
| lcuk2 | zerojayPC, was that a titter about the "grey council" | 14:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | thx for the link | 14:02 |
| zerojayPC | lcuk2: No, about the "5 yeses". | 14:02 |
| lcuk2 | :D | 14:02 |
| zerojayPC | lcuk2: Not sure what you meant when you said "grey" there, honestly. :) | 14:03 |
| lcuk2 | http://www.google.co.uk/#q=grey+council | 14:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | so if i undertand well nokia organize the booking of the travel | 14:03 |
| lcuk2 | Summoned, I take the place that has been prepared for me. I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. -Delenn | 14:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | at least for the hostel and the flight | 14:04 |
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| lcuk2 | Khertan_n810, holding pattern | 14:04 |
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| lcuk2 | we should get emails | 14:04 |
| lcuk2 | explaining what to do | 14:04 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: It seems there is an issue with python2.5-dbus depending on python2.5-xml (>= 0.8.4-1osso8) | 14:04 |
| lcuk2 | but i also believe some folks getting own travel sorted | 14:04 |
| lcuk2 | and just putting in a claim | 14:04 |
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| lcuk2 | thats right isnt it x-fade ^ | 14:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | ok i ll wait so | 14:05 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: are you testing that on the device, right? | 14:05 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Somehow the device complains about that missing. | 14:05 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Well, not me, andre__ is ;) | 14:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | i m also wainting a email from nokia for a n900 programs :) | 14:05 |
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| mgedmin | oh, wait, it's time to organize travel & accomodations | 14:05 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: yeah, andre__ reported it on #pymaemo last week, but we had not come to a conclusion on what might it be :) | 14:06 |
| lcuk2 | yes mgedmin ! | 14:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | i hope they will do it :) | 14:06 |
| * lcuk2 acts like the proclaimers | 14:06 | |
| * mgedmin hates taking care of these things | 14:06 | |
| X-Fade | lizardo: dpkg --compare-versions just seems to like the newer version in -devl | 14:06 |
| lcuk2 | i remember our discussions last time lol | 14:06 |
| andre__ | X-Fade, lizardo, i know that i'm just making noise. ;-) | 14:06 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: as I told him, all the seemingly "broken" packages install just fine on scratcbox... I need a more verbose error to debug the problem :/ | 14:06 |
| zerojayPC | Khertan_n810: I have a hard time imagining they won't, but it does worry people that they haven't talked about it at all yet. | 14:06 |
| andre__ | lizardo, okay, just tell me how to create a verbose error :-) | 14:07 |
| X-Fade | andre__: are you using apt-get or AM? | 14:07 |
| andre__ | AM | 14:07 |
| * lcuk2 cant wait for this item to work properly | 14:07 | |
| lizardo | andre__: running the "apt-get install <package>" command on the terminal and giving the output should be a start :) although the output might be mistleading sometimes | 14:07 |
| X-Fade | andre__: can you try to apt-get intall app? | 14:08 |
| lcuk2 | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_025549.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png | 14:08 |
| Khertan_n810 | zerojayPC: i did worry too much about that, as the last time the dev program was available after the availability of the n810 | 14:08 |
| X-Fade | Maybe there is a bug in AM resolving ;) | 14:08 |
| andre__ | lizardo, X-Fade: okay, will do. i guess i report in #pymaemo, okay? less noisy. | 14:08 |
| lcuk2 | Khertan_n810, see that link, i have the ui working for postcards :) | 14:08 |
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| X-Fade | lizardo: But anyway: 0.8.4-10.1maemo3 isn't really a nice version number. | 14:08 |
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| * lcuk2 dances and boogies | 14:09 | |
| lizardo | X-Fade: last week andre__ explained to me the AM error, it tried to install 2 packages and AM complained about two non-instalable packages that well... are not dependencies of the packages he was trying to install :/ | 14:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ve see the postcard for people going to nokia world :) | 14:09 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: why that ? | 14:09 |
| andre__ | but these are fixed now. | 14:09 |
| zerojayPC | Khertan_n810: Yeah, I remember that dev program starting quite late. | 14:09 |
| andre__ | iirc | 14:09 |
| lcuk2 | yeah will be better when i tie it with the twit upload and liqbase.net direct upping | 14:09 |
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| X-Fade | lizardo: Why would your package revision be 10.1 :) | 14:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | the french nokia store sell already the n900 at 599Euros | 14:10 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: the package version in Maemo Fremantle SDK is 0.8.4-10.1maemo1 | 14:10 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: so I followed it ;) | 14:10 |
| Khertan_n810 | but right now it s out of stock | 14:10 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: (although I might suspect it is our fault in the beggining :) | 14:11 |
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| X-Fade | lizardo: I don't know why they picked that then. How complicated do you want your version numbers to be ;) | 14:11 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: anyway it is mostly because we track Debian packages | 14:11 |
| Khertan_n810 | i just hope that the price will significally drop down if there is any dev program ... else i would able | 14:11 |
| andre__ | X-Fade, lizardo: aha. installing via apt-get works. so likely that h-a-m is on crack. | 14:11 |
| Khertan_n810 | i would not be able to buy it | 14:11 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: 0.8.4-10maemo1, I can understand. | 14:11 |
| Khertan_n810 | my wife think that is too much | 14:11 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: and we could not use 10maemoN probably because there someone uploaded the package to the SDK *without* the maemoN suffix | 14:11 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: and we couldn't use -11maemo1 either, because there was no -11 upstream :/ | 14:12 |
| lcuk2 | Khertan_n810, my missus thought the n810 was too much | 14:12 |
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| X-Fade | lizardo: Great ;) | 14:12 |
| lcuk2 | but heaven and high water wouldnt have stopped me! | 14:12 |
| lizardo | X-Fade: we use it as a "last resort", usually you will see only "-NNmaemoN" naming scheme :) | 14:13 |
| lizardo | anyway, time to have breakfast, see you later! | 14:13 |
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| GAN8001 | kirma, UBIFS is for raw NAND devices. | 14:19 |
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| GAN8001 | kirma, trying to use it on a device (like the 32GB eMMC) that already has wear-leveling built-in could theoretically nullify both wear-leveling schemes. | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN800: doesn't sound likely. | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN800: it'd be lovely if you could tell a SD 'get out of my way - just become a dumb block device' | 14:22 |
| GAN8001 | SpeedEvil, well, it doesn't work like that. | 14:23 |
| GAN8001 | Not sure what the point would be, either, since the internal wear-leveling on the vast majority of devices works just fine. | 14:24 |
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| JvA | Hi! Are there any log somewhere in which I can see if a status bar plugin loaded, crashed etc? Where do g_debug log to? | 14:24 |
| jaska | i wish you could bypass leveling and query the nand configuration :( | 14:24 |
| JvA | Because my plugin sometimes loads, sometimes not. It's driving me crazy. | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | gan8001: I know it doesn't. The point would be greater predictability and exposure of the erase block units directly for better granularity on the flash and higher performance with appropriate filesystems. | 14:24 |
| GAN8001 | and until UBIFS, the existing raw device filesystems were too RAM expensive to make managing anything over 512MB or 1GB realistic. | 14:24 |
| Khertan | lcuk2: a wife is a bigger problem than that | 14:25 |
| lcuk2 | agreed! | 14:26 |
| lcuk2 | but you tell them that they can spend equal amount in shoes and suddenly the world is good again | 14:26 |
| Khertan | once she will spend that for shoes ... there will be not enought to bought the n900 | 14:28 |
| lcuk2 | haha | 14:29 |
| inz | you need a better job then | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Do something you're not around the house then. Washing up, ... | 14:31 |
| inz | and youll be less home and need to buy more shoes and flowers, and all the money is gone again | 14:31 |
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| Khertan | inz: this is the last thing i do ... a better job ... less at home ... so more shoes and flowers :) | 14:32 |
| Khertan | not exactly shoes and flowers ... | 14:32 |
| Khertan | but more work at home, a new garage door ... | 14:32 |
| Khertan | a new bath room ... | 14:33 |
| Khertan | far more expensives than shoes | 14:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone with n900 hardware willing to do some GPS tests - involving strace mainly and leaving it in sight of the sky for 6 hoursish. | 14:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | Khertan: naah. Couple of pipes at the right level - pour 3 feet of concrete into the bathroom - and sculpt it into bathroom furniture as it sets. | 14:34 |
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| * SpeedEvil is currently insulating the house. Fun. | 14:34 | |
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| RST38bis | moo all | 14:46 |
| jaska | oink | 14:47 |
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| zerojay | Gotta love when people argue with you about something that's already official. | 14:50 |
| zerojay | It's like saying the sky is red. | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | It is. | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | (sometimes) | 14:50 |
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| zerojay | Perhaps that explains your nick. ;) | 14:51 |
| timeless_mbp | mac book pro ? | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | It has a boring explanation. I made up a random word generator to put two words together from /usr/dict/words. This was the one out of the 25 I picked | 14:51 |
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| zerojay | Ah, ok. | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | zerojay: Sometimes people are just insane - sometimes the sky is red in their part of the world when they wrote - and you need to revisit your assumptions I meant. | 14:52 |
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| zerojay | Peter@Maemo says there's an fm receiver in the n900. | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | there is? | 14:54 |
| zerojay | How red does your sky need to be to argue that especially when he has the hardware and you don't? | 14:54 |
| zerojay | That's what he said, receiver but no app yet. | 14:55 |
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| zerojay | I love being on irc from my bus to work. | 14:56 |
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| aquatix | :) | 14:56 |
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| andre__ | lizardo, X-Fade: filed an internal ticket about that weird python2.5-xml issue in h-a-m. will keep you informed | 14:59 |
| lizardo | andre__: ok, let us know if we need any changes to the packages in extras-devel | 15:00 |
| RST38bis | zerojay: If you mean the MMS support in the kernel, it is indeed very strange | 15:00 |
| RST38bis | zerojay: MMS basically travels over HTTP. Why would it involve the kernel I do not quite understand | 15:00 |
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| zerojay | Not talking about mms. | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh. FM reciever. Nice. | 15:01 |
| andre__ | sigh, testing issues would be way faster if the system would not crash every two minutes. | 15:02 |
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| nomis | mhm, if there is FM transmitter *and* FM receiver in the device, I wonder if one could do near-field data transmission... :) | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | nomis: what do you mean? | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | nomis: Oh - not really near field | 15:04 |
| nomis | eh, maybe "near field" is just wrong wording. | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | nomis: you've got BT and wifi - you probably don't need to :) | 15:04 |
| nomis | SpeedEvil: but that requires setting up a connection. | 15:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | nomis: so does the FM thingy. | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | nomis: through some protocol or other. | 15:04 |
| nomis | well, it probably is a stupid idea, yeah :) | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | nomis: ad-hoc wifi for example is similar. | 15:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | However - imagine the fun you can have transcoding a FM station to another FM station and messing with the output. | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I've wondered for a while about auto-song-replace to replace songs you don't like with equal length ones you do. | 15:06 |
| nomis | heh :) | 15:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | Or drop into a podcast | 15:06 |
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| GAN8001 | Stskeeps, we've known that from the kernel since forever. | 15:08 |
| Stskeeps | i thought the chip got replaced with a FMTX only thing | 15:08 |
| RST38bis | FM transmission will probably kill your FM reception | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38bis: probably, yes. | 15:09 |
| RST38bis | Given that both circuits are so close together and apparently use the same antenna | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38: Was there an actual statement that there is a reciever too - I only saw speculation. | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | i can't tell if the si4713 is fm tx only or rxrx | 15:10 |
| RST38bis | Peter says receiver hw is there but no Nokia app for it | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | rxtx | 15:10 |
| GAN8001 | Yes, there was a statement, and, yes, it's in the kernel. | 15:10 |
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| RST38bis | He hopes people will write a community app | 15:10 |
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| * SpeedEvil would. :) | 15:10 | |
| GAN8001 | si4713 was replaced with the TI chip as far as I know. | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | wasn't it reverse? | 15:11 |
| GAN8001 | No | 15:11 |
| GAN8001 | Or it could be in the Broadcom chip. | 15:11 |
| GAN8001 | I'm not particularly clear on the WL1271's capabilities as far as that goes. | 15:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | It seems to be only recieve. | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 15:12 |
| RST38bis | easy to check | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | only transmit - the si4713 - with power reception - to find a clear channel - not audio | 15:12 |
| GAN8001 | There's both RX and TX. | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | - Integrated receiver for receive power measurement | 15:12 |
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| RST38bis | WL1271 is a TI WiLink chip | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN8001: yes - on the short-form datasheet it specifically does not say audio | 15:13 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN8001: recieve power measurement is to find a clear channel only - not audio | 15:13 |
| RST38bis | supports 802.11b/g/n (notice N) | 15:13 |
| GAN8001 | Both are mentioned several times in the kernel and there are a number of part numbers listed which support both. | 15:13 |
| RST38bis | Both solutions support Bluetooth specification v2.1 + EDR and FM transmit and receive. (second one is WL1273) | 15:13 |
| GAN8001 | SpeedEvil, I'm not talking about the si. | 15:14 |
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| GAN8001 | That was deprecated by a number of other chips mentioned more recently. | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN8001: ah | 15:14 |
| GAN8001 | I've been digging around through kernel sources and changelogs since the first SDK release last year. | 15:14 |
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| RST38bis | In related news, "The New OMAP™ 4 platform is the industry’s most optimized mobile applications platform." :) | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN8001: what's the current one - the WL*? | 15:16 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if there are pics of taken-apart 900's floating around. | 15:16 | |
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| GAN8001 | WL1271 was mentioned most recently. | 15:17 |
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| GAN8001 | SpeedEvil, sure, contact the FCC. ;) | 15:17 |
| javispedro | morning | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | FCC should say if it receives on FM shouldn't it | 15:17 |
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| zerojay | In other words, fm reception is possible based on the hardware. | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Both solutions support Bluetooth specification v2.1 + EDR, and provide FM transmit and receive functions to turn the handset into a personal area broadcast device. | 15:17 |
| zerojay | Right? | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | To quote the WL1271 | 15:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | brief spec | 15:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Though of course that doesn't mean it's actually there - the hardware. | 15:18 |
| GAN8001 | Well, Peter says it's there. | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | oops - missed RST38's comment | 15:19 |
| GAN8001 | So it's there. | 15:19 |
| javispedro | oh, cool. fm receiver. | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN8001: I hadn't seen any statement to that effect, just speculation. Nice to know. | 15:19 |
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| javispedro | even qgil thanks peter's message, so I guess this is the real deal. | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | then again empty-space fm band finder -is- a receiver.. | 15:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Would be nice if more information was released on it, already, since Nokia aren't including an app which'll utilize it. | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: not a useful one usually though. | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: unless you want to do data transmission via morse :) | 15:20 |
| javispedro | do we know if it's the wl1271? | 15:20 |
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| javispedro | receiver but no app. I wonder what's Nokia thinking. | 15:21 |
| GAN8001 | Probably thinking we can handle it. | 15:22 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Doesn't sell numbers, lower priority ;) | 15:22 |
| javispedro | same as Palm? Which used to "add" and "remove" the usb mass storage gadget feature every other model | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: it wouldn't be fun if we didn't have things to hack | 15:22 |
| javispedro | even though the drivers were always there, so all was missing was the "enable" app. | 15:22 |
| X-Fade | Now let's hope we find a compass in there too ;) | 15:22 |
| javispedro | I call it: "Newbie market segmentation". | 15:22 |
| Stskeeps | http://osdir.com/ml/linux-media/2009-08/msg00301.html seems neat if it is the chip in it | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | set radio text of own choice,etc | 15:23 |
| javispedro | You make newbies buy the more expensive model to get Mass storage support, but then make hackers happy by even putting the mass storage driver gadget there (but no ui) | 15:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: tell RDS radios that there are traffic announcements and to switch to your channel now. | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 15:24 |
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| javispedro | that si4713 says nothing about fm rx? | 15:25 |
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| * RST38bis would be interested to play with RDS | 15:25 | |
| javispedro | other than "measuring noise level". | 15:25 |
| *** GAN800 is now known as GeneralAntilles | 15:25 | |
| * Stskeeps gahs at the guy demanding to dl maemo 5 | 15:25 | |
| javispedro | "demanding" being the key word ;) | 15:25 |
| RST38bis | Sts: I personally like the christexaport guy vetter | 15:26 |
| RST38bis | better | 15:26 |
| Stskeeps | i'm without most of my tech right now, else i would be taking kontorri's theme maker, put the deb on mer, and see how it looks | 15:26 |
| Khertan | javispedro: yep but if palm unactive it ... on some models, it was due to incompatibility with it | 15:26 |
| RST38bis | Sts: Such an earnest guy | 15:26 |
| Khertan | this haven't pass the test | 15:26 |
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| Khertan | at least on the treo | 15:27 |
| javispedro | Khertan, palm T|X incompatible? it had the driver! | 15:27 |
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| Khertan | palm tx has the driver ... | 15:27 |
| Khertan | t5 too | 15:27 |
| Khertan | and t5 have the app to enable it ... | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38: I'm unsure if it's widespread in the US - I know it's common in theUK | 15:27 |
| javispedro | t5 had the ui | 15:27 |
| javispedro | so, why did they remove the ui from tx? | 15:27 |
| Khertan | but using the driver on the TX can corrupt data | 15:28 |
| Khertan | specially when using the wifi at the same time | 15:28 |
| Khertan | i ve done an ui to use it ... and i see that sometimes ... | 15:28 |
| Khertan | there is some problem with it | 15:28 |
| javispedro | Khertan, (apart from my personal 4 years using it without corruption) more info? | 15:28 |
| Khertan | yep the driver send error | 15:29 |
| Khertan | s | 15:29 |
| javispedro | Khertan, I even programmed the PXA UTC directly and _never_ ever seen a transmission error. | 15:29 |
| Khertan | javispedro: i ve done an ui for it ... but never release it ... | 15:29 |
| RST38bis | Speed: won't need the US for at least the next 6 months | 15:29 |
| Khertan | directly isn't the problem ... | 15:29 |
| Khertan | the problem is the driver | 15:29 |
| javispedro | Khertan, you mean mass storage _host_? | 15:30 |
| javispedro | I was talking about _gadget_. | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38bis: I thought you were in the US | 15:30 |
| RST38bis | Speed: Not currently | 15:30 |
| Khertan | i mean the stupid driver that sometimes think there is no more connection and unmount the mass storage | 15:30 |
| javispedro | Khertan, sorry, don't follow you. | 15:30 |
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| Khertan | the mass storage is managed by the pxa and the drivers | 15:31 |
| javispedro | gadget, I hope you mean. | 15:31 |
| Khertan | when using wifi at the same times at 100ma ... | 15:31 |
| javispedro | Host is another beast. | 15:31 |
| Khertan | for a reason i didn't understand | 15:31 |
| javispedro | I fried my T|X while trying host ;) | 15:32 |
| Khertan | lol | 15:32 |
| Khertan | the driver got error ... maybe insuffisiant power ... and stop the 'mass storage mode' | 15:32 |
| javispedro | But I've been talking about gadget (aka Drive Mode) | 15:32 |
| Khertan | and if you are wrinting information on the sd ... on the fs ... it s can corrupt it | 15:32 |
| Khertan | yes i m talking of the gadget 'Drive Mode' | 15:33 |
| javispedro | k. | 15:33 |
| Khertan | and this never happen on T5 ... | 15:33 |
| javispedro | well, never seen it happen in T|X either, but I take your word. | 15:33 |
| Khertan | sdio sd maybe doesn't eat less battery | 15:33 |
| Khertan | but i doubt ... | 15:34 |
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| javispedro | wouldn't such issue also affect the hotsync protocol? | 15:34 |
| Khertan | javispedro: i ve kill the fat on my sd card two or three time | 15:34 |
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| Khertan | javispedro: i don't think | 15:34 |
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| Khertan | but i ve never really use hotsync :) | 15:35 |
| javispedro | to be honest, I've always had problems with the palm's udc, but connecting it to the root hub fixed them | 15:36 |
| andre__ | hmm, what's the easiest way (dpkg?) to list all apps that depend on package foo? | 15:36 |
| javispedro | apt-cache rdepend foo | 15:36 |
| javispedro | rdepends (sorry) | 15:37 |
| andre__ | ah. thanks! | 15:37 |
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| zeev | Hi, if the N900 will become a "bestseller" - is there a chance that Nokia will keep gtk+? | 15:40 |
| zerojay | Gtk isn't going away. | 15:40 |
| javispedro | zeev, Nokia is not going to kill gtk+. It will be on extras much like the way qt is currently is. | 15:40 |
| zerojay | It'll be community supported. | 15:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | What they said. | 15:41 |
| javispedro | So. | 15:42 |
| javispedro | If you are a user, you will not notice (the interface is still going to be cool) | 15:42 |
| javispedro | If you are a developer, just pull gtk from extras and neither you nor your users are going to notice | 15:42 |
| javispedro | (if "community" can manage to get the gtk theme to match) | 15:42 |
| RST38bis | Well who knows what happens to Gtk+... | 15:43 |
| javispedro | it dies. gnome mobile switches to qt ;) | 15:43 |
| RST38bis | Not that anyone would forcibly "kill" it, but with no official maintenance from Nokia and all apps moving to Qt, there isn't much incentive to use Gtk+ | 15:43 |
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| X-Fade | jeremiah: ping? | 15:49 |
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| RST38bis | javispedro,X-Fade,jeremiah: Reminder: the icon proposal thing | 15:51 |
| X-Fade | RST38bis: Icon proposal? | 15:51 |
| lizardo | X-Fade (or anyone who might know): can we have only one GIT repository per garage project? | 15:52 |
| javispedro | X-Fade, ok, I'll explain :) | 15:52 |
| RST38bis | X-Fade: javis will explain :) | 15:52 |
| X-Fade | lizardo: Yes, at the moment at least. I'm not sure if Ferenc is working on more. | 15:53 |
| javispedro | Yesterday we noticed that some fremantle packages were using icons bigger that 26x26 in XB-Maemo-Icon-26 field in the debian/control file. I was browsing through the package list using Fremantle SDK Hildon Application Manager and though that they looked cooler than the current 26x26. | 15:53 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: 48x48? | 15:53 |
| javispedro | X-Fade, I think that's the maximum. HAM startes rescaling them if they're bigger | 15:54 |
| RST38bis | X-Fade: We have also noticed that Maemo packages already come with 40x40 icons :) | 15:54 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade, yeah, the buildin "generic package icon" seems already bigger than 26x26 | 15:54 |
| javispedro | *builtin. | 15:54 |
| RST38bis | X-Fade: And came up with idea of replacing XB-Maemo-Icon-26 with XB-Maemo-Icon and running a script in the repo that automatically takes 40x40 icons from packages and places them into package control files | 15:54 |
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| lizardo | X-Fade: hmm that's not good for projects like PyMaemo which host many packages in a single garage project :/ I think we will stay at SVN for the time being then (although I use git-svn locally to manage my commits) | 15:55 |
| * JosefAssad reads the topic and grumbles... "No maemo for iphone... GRRR" | 15:55 | |
| JosefAssad | seriously, is that a FAQ? | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume not as the binary components of iphone kernel? | 15:56 |
| X-Fade | RST38bis: Well, we're not going to change submitted packages in any way. That is considered evil ;) | 15:56 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, I wouldn't make that thing in the server side anyway | 15:56 |
| javispedro | For a start just let the propose be the "increase of suggested size in XB-Maemo-Icon field" | 15:57 |
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| javispedro | RST38bis, if you're interesting in making maemo packaging "more cimpatible" with debian's, ideally, dh_install or cdbs should be patched to search for the icon and add it to the control file, but I think the extras server is not the one for the job | 15:58 |
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| * javispedro will mail -devel later with this | 16:00 | |
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| javispedro | X-Fade, do you have currently any checks in maemo.org/packages promotion for the icon size? | 16:01 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: no | 16:01 |
| javispedro | ok | 16:01 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: do you have an example of a 40x40 app icon in a package? | 16:02 |
| javispedro | BlueMaemo is 128x128 ;) | 16:02 |
| javispedro | supertux-stable is 48x48 | 16:02 |
| javispedro | I don't remember a 40x40 off my head now | 16:02 |
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| javispedro | (bluemaemo is armel-only so don't search for it in sdk) | 16:04 |
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| javispedro | btw X-Fade (this is cheating, I'll file feature reqs later): the packages interface ought to use the XB-Maemo-Package-Name and icon fields if the package has them | 16:04 |
| X-Fade | An other problem with these big icons is that they make the Packages file huge. | 16:04 |
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| javispedro | (for proper capitalisation in the /packages/view/foo page) | 16:05 |
| javispedro | (specially the h1 part) | 16:06 |
| javispedro | X-Fade, yeah, but we found 40x40 to be a reasonable compromise | 16:06 |
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| javispedro | not much bigger in average | 16:06 |
| javispedro | (not even 2x the size, since PNG compression does its job) | 16:06 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: I asked Daniel to check what the official guideline for these icons is. | 16:08 |
| javispedro | packaging guide says 26x26 only. | 16:08 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Yeah, but AM seems to take larger at least. | 16:09 |
| javispedro | yes, I'd call it a bit unfair. | 16:09 |
| javispedro | If AM allows them everyone is going to use them if this ever ends up being as huge as the iphone app store ;) | 16:10 |
| lcuk2 | javispedro, did you see the bug/test that qwerty managed to find from within AM source | 16:10 |
| javispedro | lcuk2, yeah, it does not crash. | 16:10 |
| lcuk2 | it was on about overflows, the guide will say small icons because thats logically the right thing to do | 16:10 |
| * SpeedEvil gets busy coding a version of http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/08/iphone-i-am-ric.html . | 16:10 | |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Well, there is no Packaging Policy for Fremantle out yet, so we might be able to change that :) | 16:10 |
| lcuk2 | even if it doesnt crash any more | 16:10 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: Already there. i-am-free | 16:11 |
| javispedro | X-Fade, for the record, lcuk2 is talking about a h-a-m bug crashing with > 2KiB icons. not present in fremantle h-a-m but supposedly still present in diablo's | 16:11 |
| javispedro | well, gotta go, sorry. if you have something to tell me please do, I'll check the logs when I get back this afternoon. | 16:12 |
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| lopz | gm ;) | 16:16 |
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| * kirma hears highly confusing whispers of future maemo devices | 16:40 | |
| thp | X-Fade: would it be possible to get the "XB-Maemo-Upgrade-Description" on the maemo.org downloads pages for OS2008? | 16:40 |
| kirma | but wellll. if I start to wait the next big thing "just around the corner", that wait is not going to end for quite a while. | 16:41 |
| X-Fade | thp: I intend to add this extra info to the packages pages first. And later copy them over to Downloads. | 16:41 |
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| thp | ok. should i file a bug report (feature request) as a reminder or is this unnecessary? | 16:42 |
| X-Fade | thp: What is in a bug can't be forgotten ;) | 16:43 |
| thp | X-Fade: ok :) will do. thanks for fixing the promotion stuff, btw :) seems to work great now | 16:44 |
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| windmill | How do I change targets in scratchbox? | 16:46 |
| zerojay | Sb-menu | 16:46 |
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| windmill | zerojay, Thanks! | 16:47 |
| windmill | zerojay, it says I must close scratchbox sessions first but I don't have any running? any ideas? | 16:48 |
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| fiferboy | windmill, from sb-menu try the "kill processes" option sending them signal 15 | 16:50 |
| fiferboy | You should be able to switch after that | 16:50 |
| windmill | fiferboy, Thanks, that has worked | 16:50 |
| thp | windmill: sb-conf select DIABLO_ARMEL also works as one-line command (you can set an alias for it) | 16:52 |
| thp | (with DIABLO_ARMEL being replaced with the target you want to switch to) | 16:52 |
| fiferboy | There is also an sb-conf switch to send a kill signal of your choice to the processes that you can add into to smooth the process | 16:53 |
| fiferboy | I can't remember the switch, but sb-conf --help should provide a lead | 16:53 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy, i dropped the db for now | 16:55 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: File system is that much faster for you, eh? | 16:55 |
| lcuk | soooo much faster | 16:56 |
| lcuk | ill reevaluate it later | 16:56 |
| fiferboy | I am considering an xml-based approach, but I want to minimize data duplication as much as possible | 16:56 |
| lcuk | yeah | 16:56 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I wonder if it is a short coming of sqlite, file access time, or just databases in general in your case | 16:57 |
| lcuk | mmm cant decide yet, but there could be ways for me to get database query performance i want | 16:57 |
| lcuk | its probably always going to be slow with the size of the db i was working with | 16:58 |
| lcuk | but there has to be ways round it cos using filesystem only its quick | 16:58 |
| lcuk | i might just store indexes to the datafiles :) | 16:58 |
| lcuk | for collating etc | 16:58 |
| lcuk | now i got back into proper code tho, i had some time for style upgrades | 16:59 |
| fiferboy | Yes, storing meta data in a database could speed up searching and sorting | 16:59 |
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| lcuk | nahhh | 16:59 |
| lcuk | not searching | 16:59 |
| lcuk | at least not the first level stuff i do | 16:59 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: You store that in the file itself? | 16:59 |
| lcuk | no, its all just based on simple keys and instr lol | 17:00 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt7qB37sLLo | 17:00 |
| lcuk | but watch that and see the kind of effects i get | 17:00 |
| lcuk | when i tried that same code using database queries on indexed fields it blew chunks | 17:00 |
| fiferboy | My searches take advantage of the Qt list widgets filtering abilities, though I am considering going back to hildon/gtk for the time being just for top-notch Fremantle integration | 17:00 |
| lcuk | about 2:20 in ;) | 17:01 |
| lcuk | yeah gtk is nice | 17:01 |
| lcuk | and the style is nice | 17:01 |
| lcuk | i have my own forming tho :) | 17:01 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_025549.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png | 17:02 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: I saw that postcard picture. Have you been working on the look of your widgets? The buttons look quite nice | 17:02 |
| lcuk | those are the same buttons as i always had | 17:03 |
| lcuk | i finally worked out how to tint a gradient tho | 17:03 |
| fiferboy | Really? I don't remember the gradiants before... | 17:03 |
| fiferboy | Ah, so they are coloured now? | 17:03 |
| lcuk | ive never wanted to make specific buttons and just left them as colored boxes for this reasonm | 17:03 |
| lcuk | yeah they have always been colored | 17:03 |
| lcuk | just not textures | 17:03 |
| windmill | I'm still having problems followingthe SKD installation instructions, I can't get the SDK UI to start. I get child (pid=2802) terminated due to signal=6 | 17:04 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: When you were using sqlite, you used the c api? | 17:04 |
| lcuk | yeah | 17:05 |
| fiferboy | windmill: You agreed to the EULA and installed the nokia-binaries? | 17:05 |
| windmill | yes | 17:05 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: When you did a query, did you have to walk through the result set and populate your widgets? | 17:05 |
| fiferboy | windmill: You are running from the FREMANTLE_X86 rootstrap? | 17:05 |
| lcuk | the query returned the ID column only | 17:06 |
| zerojay | Gen800: i'm really starting to think he's trolling now. | 17:06 |
| lcuk | a set of ID columns for the grid rather | 17:06 |
| windmill | fiferboy, I changed target | 17:06 |
| lcuk | when a grid item is shown on screen it then loads details | 17:06 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Did it return the total number of results of the query, or did you have to read them one at a time until you hit the end? | 17:06 |
| lcuk | but before that its been a single key field | 17:06 |
| lcuk | resultset | 17:07 |
| lcuk | array(fieldcount*recordcount) (effectively) | 17:07 |
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| fiferboy | Thanks | 17:07 |
| windmill | I get GLIB ERROR ** default - Not enough memory to set up DBusConnection for use with GLib | 17:07 |
| windmill | the first error is : | 17:08 |
| windmill | process 2802: arguments to dbus_connection_send_with_reply_and_block() were incorrect, assertion "connection != NULL" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 3298. | 17:08 |
| * javispedro is surprised to find that basically nokia has desisted from trying to "monetize" the maemo.org downloads section. | 17:10 | |
| RST38bis | javispedro: [back to the icons thing] well there is already a lot of apps with 26x26 icons in the repo, so asking maintainers to replace all the icons is going to be difficult | 17:10 |
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| RST38bis | javispedro: most stuff there is GPLed | 17:10 |
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| RST38bis | cant easily monetize it | 17:11 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, changing H-A-M to accept "XB-Maemo-Icon-40" will probably be difficult too. so easiest thing to do will be to just accept 40x40 icons in XB-Maemo-Icon-26 | 17:11 |
| javispedro | (the hackish solution, as usual) | 17:11 |
| RST38bis | javis: Yea, and I suspect it is already done ;) | 17:11 |
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| javispedro | yeah RST38bis, but there have been "community" effors to make maemo.org/downloads an app store-like, and now qgil just comes and says "ovi". | 17:12 |
| RST38bis | javis: No wonder, Ovi is Nokia's latest pet project | 17:13 |
| RST38bis | javis: Was NGage before that, or Nokia Download!, I no longer remember which one | 17:13 |
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| javispedro | I'm sure someone from the upper branches just saw "oh what's this n900 maemo 5 thingie and why it does not play with ovi" | 17:14 |
| javispedro | and thus the immediate change in "direction". | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | Af;noon | 17:14 |
| javispedro | afternoon | 17:15 |
| Jaffa | Seems like I've missed some stuff. | 17:15 |
| Jaffa | 40x40 icons for app manager? | 17:15 |
| Jaffa | Ovi store? | 17:15 |
| javispedro | heh | 17:15 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: Ovi store: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318664&postcount=33 | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, not particularly enthused thinking about how they'll implement it. | 17:17 |
| monkeyiq | anyone got gphoto2 working with any stability on an n810? | 17:17 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: 40x40 icons: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2009-08-31T15:51:26 | 17:18 |
| javispedro | (i'm such a lazy bastard ;) ) | 17:18 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Do you think the AT&T NAM N900 rumour has any merit? | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, I have no idea. | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, if Nokia's not gone clinically insane it should. | 17:19 |
| tbf | fiferboy: well, you know (or can google) the FCC specs | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | The email quoted in the article definitely sounded like there would be an announcement, probably wiating for Nokia World | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: ta | 17:20 |
| GAN800 | fiferboy, I just hope it isn't that N920. | 17:21 |
| mikkov_ | do you think that fremantle is able to mute sound from all other applications when there's an incoming call? | 17:21 |
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| mikkov_ | or do all apps have to support muting though dbus or something? | 17:21 |
| javispedro | mikkov_, it's using pulseaudio (even for phone calls?) so maybe the builtin gui does not allow that but it could be done. | 17:21 |
| javispedro | muting through dbus? sounds evil ;) | 17:22 |
| tbf | mikkov_, javispedro: allowing such games was one of lennart's main motivations to even start with PA! | 17:22 |
| javispedro | yeah, I did read the whole story | 17:22 |
| javispedro | unfortunately I switched to hw sound mixing before pulseaudio got to the "usable" state. | 17:23 |
| javispedro | and now I depise it ;) | 17:23 |
| tbf | javispedro: write a pulse audio plugin for your hw mixer! :-D | 17:24 |
| javispedro | tbf: hey! that is already on my agenda!! | 17:24 |
| tbf | (to avoid missing the train of modern audio features) | 17:24 |
| tbf | javispedro: gooood! :-) | 17:24 |
| javispedro | tbf: have you read that somewhere? do you have any pointers? | 17:24 |
| Captain_Picard | http://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/media.php?id=65182&c=11 | 17:24 |
| javispedro | just wondering ;) | 17:24 |
| fiferboy | What are AT&T GSM frequencies? | 17:25 |
| RST38bis | javis: Isn't PulseAudio more demanding for resources? | 17:26 |
| GAN8001 | 850/1900 | 17:27 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, definitely a big yes. However, I don't know what Nokia's done with it. | 17:27 |
| fiferboy | GAN800: N900 specs list "Quad-band GSM EDGE 850/900/1800/1900" doesn't that cover it? | 17:27 |
| javispedro | the other day GAN surprised me with the fact Nokia seems not to be using DSP for sound anymore. | 17:27 |
| javispedro | so who knows. | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, for EDGE. | 17:27 |
| RST38bis | javis: Will ALSA still be available then? | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not 3G | 17:27 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, expect it to be always EBUSY'd by pulse. | 17:28 |
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| fiferboy | Ah, I have never used a data plan (being from Canada it is too rich for my blood) | 17:28 |
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| RST38bis | javis: argh. | 17:28 |
| fiferboy | GAN800: 3G is WCDMA? | 17:29 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, they may also configure libasound to output to pulse instead of /dev/snd/*, | 17:29 |
| GAN8001 | fiferboy, yeah. | 17:29 |
| javispedro | so (theoretically) no api break. | 17:29 |
| fiferboy | Ah... | 17:29 |
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| javispedro | but from what I've read, it sucks. | 17:29 |
| RST38bis | javis: this all sounds scary | 17:29 |
| javispedro | yeah, I was pissed by no longer dsp mixed sound. | 17:30 |
| * RST38bis still wants his /dev/dsp back | 17:30 | |
| javispedro | has /dev/dsp ever been in Maemo? | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | doubt it | 17:30 |
| javispedro | (one of my pet projects was to get /dev/dsp support back in the kernel, but noticing that asound-plugins done all the rerouting job to the dsp, seems nearly impossible) | 17:30 |
| RST38bis | javis: No. AFAIK, ALSA plugs directly into DSP code that plays sound | 17:31 |
| javispedro | yeah, as part of the dsp plugin. | 17:32 |
| javispedro | but it does that in usermode. | 17:32 |
| javispedro | I mean, apps write to /dev/dsp/* instead of /dev/snd. | 17:32 |
| RST38bis | /dev/snd api has not been published | 17:32 |
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| javispedro | there isn't any. look there, just the usual control file. | 17:32 |
| javispedro | but no pcm endpoints. | 17:33 |
| RST38bis | well it does not mean you can't talk to it, with ioctls | 17:33 |
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| javispedro | what I mean is that with the Maemo libasound, ALSA apps write to /dev/dsp/* instead of /dev/pcm/* as is the usual config on desktop | 17:33 |
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| javispedro | s/ /dev/pcm/* / /dev/snd/* / | 17:34 |
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| RST38bis | javis: that is for the x86 version? | 17:35 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, that is "normal" alsa. | 17:35 |
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| RST38bis | yea, I know | 17:36 |
| RST38bis | But I actually have an arm board that has no /dev/pcm or /dev/dsp either | 17:36 |
| javispedro | sorry, it's /dev/snd | 17:36 |
| RST38bis | It also implements audio API at ALSA level | 17:36 |
| javispedro | instead of /dev/pcm, it's /dev/snd/, I tried to make the correction but don't know how infobot quotes / chars ;) | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder if HD supports more than 4 desktops in n900 | 17:37 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Max texture size? | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 17:38 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, alsa is both libasound and the kernel api. by patching libasound you can make alsa apps output to wherever you want without them even calling the kernel. | 17:38 |
| RST38bis | Sts: theme maker only accepts 4 | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind more than 4 really | 17:38 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: And how about vertical desktops too ;) | 17:38 |
| RST38bis | javis: Yes, but my guess is that it is the ONLY kernel API for audio in Maemo | 17:38 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, I haven't looked very much at it, but I think there's actually _no_ "kernel PCM API" (that's the reason I couldn't build the /dev/dsp emulation module) | 17:39 |
| javispedro | and just libasound is patched (asound-plugins is the one patched) to just make apps use the dsp kernel api | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: i did wonder about that | 17:40 |
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| RST38bis | javis: Yea. But the interesting question is what this dsp kernel api is | 17:42 |
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| javispedro | (of course, with all those people here having recently ported the whole maemo sound system to other sounds, please correct me if I get things wrong ;) ) | 17:42 |
| RST38bis | javis: i.e. what ioctls are accepted by those /dev/snd devices | 17:42 |
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| javispedro | RST38bis, /dev/dsptask devices ;) | 17:43 |
| javispedro | I think lardman knows. | 17:44 |
| javispedro | (if you're interested ;) ) | 17:45 |
| _berto_ | http://twitter.com/iwantanokian900 | 17:45 |
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| javispedro | spam. | 17:45 |
| javispedro | so they don't even know what the OS is like but already want it. | 17:45 |
| slonopotamus | qwerty12_N810, ping | 17:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | slonopotamus: pong | 17:46 |
| slonopotamus | qwerty12_N810, do you accidentally know how to switch sound between speaker/headphones? | 17:47 |
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| slonopotamus | fm radio applet has such button | 17:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | In Maemo, it's: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller /com/nokia/osso_hp_ls_controller com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller.loudspeaker.force_loudspeaker_on | 17:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | In Mer, I used to mess with GNOME ALSA Mixer to switch | 17:48 |
| jaska | thats a "bit" repetitive :D | 17:48 |
| RST38bis | amixer should do it | 17:49 |
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| javispedro | RST38bis, btw, no ioctls in /dev/dsptasks, strace says alsa apps just open /dev/dsptask/pcm3 O_RDWR then mmap around 3 pages of it. | 17:49 |
| slonopotamus | qwerty12_N810, hmm. what handles that dbus call? | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | dsp protocol is documented | 17:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | slonopotamus: the closed source multimediad | 17:50 |
| RST38bis | javis: so, if I do the same and map 'em to my internal audio buffer... ? =)\ | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | as in nokia dsp | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | send pcm samples with a header, pcm task happy | 17:51 |
| javispedro | RST38bis, heh. I've never touched the user mode asound API, does it allocate the buffer for you? maybe it's already doing that. | 17:51 |
| RST38bis | javis: Alsa can do it either way afaik | 17:51 |
| RST38bis | javis: It is really a mercedes benz of APIs, too bad people only implement parts of it | 17:52 |
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| javispedro | I never liked alsa. I am much better with a way simpler API (think /dev/dsp aka OSS) and then a complex all-in-user-space daemon. | 17:52 |
| javispedro | ALSA tries to be a big do-it-all mix which I never understood completely.. | 17:52 |
| javispedro | but then I don't have high latency reqs ;) | 17:53 |
| RST38bis | javis: I really just prefer /dev/dsp and its likes. For outputing a synthesized waveform, it is sufficient | 17:53 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro, use esd/pulseaudio? | 17:53 |
| RST38bis | javis: Ah, authors just really loved making APIs and took it a little bit farther than they should have :) | 17:53 |
| javispedro | slonopotamus, too late for me, I bought a hw mixing card and configured all apps to use OSS ;) | 17:53 |
| javispedro | at 10$, really cheap | 17:54 |
| RST38bis | javis: Same can be said about oss though | 17:54 |
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| javispedro | old creative card, works flawlessly if you can stand the dsp resampling everything to 48kHz | 17:54 |
| javispedro | (and the dsp can be programmed to do interesting things like hw equalizer) | 17:55 |
| msh | evening. wondering, do we need to do something special to upload to the fremantle extras autobuilder if previously had diablo? I'm getting auth failures. | 17:55 |
| javispedro | (mostly documented too, but never played with it very much) | 17:55 |
| RST38bis | msh: Need to bug X-Fade | 17:55 |
| msh | RST38bis: *nod* | 17:55 |
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| X-Fade | msh: You should be able to upload to the autobuilder for every supported dist. | 17:56 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, on that score, is it still possible to build for os2007? | 17:58 |
| lcuk | or has it been removed from the default ui | 17:58 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: never has been? | 17:58 |
| lcuk | i dunno - i got my n800 with 2007 on after even diablo | 17:59 |
| Khertan | http://khertan.net/wp-content/uploads/Capture-1024x640.png | 17:59 |
| msh | X-Fade: actually yeah, it's auth failing so must be something else. | 17:59 |
| Khertan | <<<< hihihi | 17:59 |
| Khertan | http://khertan.net/wp-content/uploads/Capture-1-1024x640.png <<< and 1 min after | 18:00 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:00 |
| Khertan | :( | 18:00 |
| lcuk | bravo Khertan :D | 18:00 |
| javispedro | python crashing? | 18:00 |
| Khertan | the difficulty isn't to port a python things | 18:00 |
| Khertan | the difficulty is installing scratchbox and python libs ! | 18:00 |
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| Khertan | yes python crash | 18:00 |
| Khertan | :( | 18:01 |
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| lcuk | no wai! | 18:01 |
| * javispedro notes to ask qgil about /proc/asound/devices when he gets to go the dmesg public dump | 18:02 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 grumbles. PCManFM doesn't crash when opening its Preferences dialog if I add a g_debug | 18:04 | |
| * SpeedEvil is astonished that after 15 yearsish sound on linux is still somewhat broken. | 18:04 | |
| SpeedEvil | Meh. | 18:04 |
| javispedro | it's not broken. it's just that we have not yet accepted that we really need the 300 apis. windows has them. | 18:05 |
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| * javispedro will settle for pulseaudio as soon as he can get it to use hw mixing. | 18:05 | |
| javispedro | (because, as I said, i don't have latency requeriments at all) | 18:06 |
| javispedro | ;P | 18:06 |
| mikkov_ | msh: if you're using dput or scp problem is most likely this https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3354 | 18:06 |
| msh | hm, maybe. it manages to try the right key then a few more, so seems a bit different. | 18:08 |
| msh | the extras assistant worked fine anyway, so no huge deal. | 18:08 |
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| lardman | afternoon | 18:13 |
| javispedro | wb lardman | 18:13 |
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| lardman | not sure I've been here today | 18:13 |
| lardman | hmm | 18:13 |
| lardman | but thanks :) | 18:13 |
| javispedro | nm ;) | 18:13 |
| lardman | in pygtk, when setting up a signal handler, can I use NULL as the value for data to be passed, or should it be None? | 18:13 |
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| javispedro | NULL's a valid python keyword? | 18:14 |
| lardman | no idea | 18:15 |
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| javispedro | think not | 18:15 |
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| slonopotamus | use None | 18:15 |
| lardman | yeah, I was thinking that might be the case :) | 18:15 |
| lardman | ok | 18:15 |
| lardman | thanks chaps | 18:15 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, and you're right :) | 18:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm | 18:17 |
| javispedro | :) | 18:17 |
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| MaceN8x0 | im trying to break my server | 18:17 |
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| MaceN8x0 | hoping that the opensolaris update fixed whatever was causing it to freeze | 18:18 |
| VDVsx | MaceN8x0, grab a hammer ;) | 18:18 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx, noticed that the BlueMaemo pkg icon is 128x128 ? ;) | 18:19 |
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| MaceRep | heh | 18:19 |
| MaceRep | that wouldn't solve the reason ;) | 18:19 |
| MaceRep | i'll do that later | 18:19 |
| MaceRep | although there is one thing left that i think it could be | 18:19 |
| lardman | does pyHildon have a date/time editor widget/ | 18:20 |
| lardman | ? | 18:20 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, yessir, some experiments ;), but Bluemaemo doesn't work atm in Maemo5, will fix it later | 18:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | hildon.TimeEditor? | 18:21 |
| lardman | ah yes DateEditor and TimeEditor, just found the docs | 18:21 |
| lardman | thanks | 18:21 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, well, I'm going to write the "suggest icons to be 40x40" proposal to -devel due to your "experiments" ;) | 18:21 |
| VDVsx | lol | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | fremantle changed icon sizes to match gnome i think | 18:21 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, debian/control icons | 18:22 |
| javispedro | would be nice to know | 18:22 |
| javispedro | yeah, H-A-M icons | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:22 |
| javispedro | it seems to be able to display up to 48x48 icons | 18:22 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, I will second your proposal :) | 18:23 |
| javispedro | some devs (hint hint ;) ) are already using larger icons | 18:23 |
| javispedro | and they look better in finger-sized rows as used by the fremantle ham | 18:23 |
| VDVsx | actually, I used a larger icon in ST by mistake :P | 18:23 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4735 - bug or feature? | 18:24 |
| Khertan | GLIB_WARNING sapwood - scaling pixmap for GtkButton : requested 78x64 | 18:24 |
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| Khertan | it s look like fremantle try to use by default larger icon in toolbar | 18:24 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:24 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan: 48x48 according to -devel earlier | 18:25 |
| Khertan | humm ... strange | 18:25 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: I'll patch mud to use 40x40 as a preference, 48x48 if available and then fall back to 26x26, perhaps using /etc/maemo_version :) | 18:25 |
| Khertan | http://khertan.net/wp-content/uploads/Capture-1-1024x640.png <<< | 18:26 |
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| Khertan | :) | 18:26 |
| javispedro | Jaffa, if really icon sizes have been changed around in Fremantle, maybe the default should be 48x48 | 18:26 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps, can you elaborate on fremantle icon sizes ? (or point to appropiate google keywords to search ;) ) | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Maybe. | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | We're still using HAM aren't we? | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: mer icons look crap cos gtk sizes changed | 18:27 |
| javispedro | yea, but the 40x40 size came because most hildon apps already have 40x40 icons, so we don't ask for yet another icon size to devs. | 18:27 |
| javispedro | Jaffa^^ | 18:27 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Ah | 18:27 |
| RST38bis | Ok, H1N1 time. | 18:28 |
| javispedro | well, gotta write to -devel to see if someone proposes a different thing | 18:28 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, hildon apps already have 40x40 icons ? | 18:30 |
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| javispedro | VDVsx, says so on the guide (26x26 to .../icons/hildon/26x26, 40x40 to ../40x40, and 64x64 to ../scalable) | 18:30 |
| VDVsx | lol I have 48x48 in the last ones, damn | 18:31 |
| javispedro | I don't know what the fremantle guide says. | 18:31 |
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| javispedro | icons is a though area really | 18:32 |
| VDVsx | lol | 18:32 |
| javispedro | in my N810 I have nearly 4 o 5 apps _per category_ with wrong icon sizes | 18:33 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: sorry, looking | 18:34 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, upps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing#Icons | 18:34 |
| javispedro | LOL | 18:34 |
| VDVsx | says 48x48 for the h-a-m icon | 18:34 |
| Jaffa | Ha! | 18:35 |
| * javispedro shuts the fuck up. | 18:35 | |
| Jaffa | Well-communicated. | 18:35 |
| Jaffa | WTF they didn't rename it, I've no idea. | 18:35 |
| javispedro | ++VDVsx | 18:35 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Indeed, I just get confirmation too. | 18:35 |
| javispedro | ok, this ends the whole story. | 18:35 |
| javispedro | heh | 18:36 |
| javispedro | someone changed it | 18:36 |
| javispedro | on 28 august | 18:36 |
| VDVsx | probably I was drunk when did the last package, and actually read this :P | 18:36 |
| javispedro | http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Documentation%2FMaemo_5_Developer_Guide%2FPackaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing&diff=17020&oldid=16966 | 18:36 |
| javispedro | nokia IP? | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not surprised re icons, but that's me :P | 18:36 |
| javispedro | :P | 18:37 |
| thux | RST38h: did you got H1N1? | 18:37 |
| X-Fade | Probably Daniel or Soumya as they are working on the wiki docs. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | well, thanks. that makes it as official as it could be ;) | 18:37 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, USA IP | 18:37 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: i guess it's a bug | 18:38 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't think we'll work on it | 18:38 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, i'll forward anyway. after wasting time parsing the spec of course :-P | 18:38 |
| andre__ | thanks | 18:38 |
| Myrtti | or one of us | 18:39 |
| Myrtti | X-Fade: ^ | 18:39 |
| X-Fade | Myrtti: You should know better to login before editing ;) | 18:39 |
| msh | is it still called "Maemo-Icon-26" ? | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | msh: Yup | 18:40 |
| msh | hah | 18:40 |
| javispedro | yes. so it's the hackish solution, but I'm fine. | 18:40 |
| Myrtti | X-Fade: I'm just minding my own business of fixing the scripts, don't know what the others do ;-) | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | oh dear | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | Well at least smaller icons still work. | 18:41 |
| * javispedro imagines Maemo 2019: "XB-Maemo-Icon-26 should contain 256x256 icons, or in svg format" | 18:42 | |
| Khertan | bye everyone ... | 18:42 |
| Khertan | i m leaving the office ... | 18:43 |
| javispedro | bye | 18:43 |
| Khertan | ah just a question before | 18:43 |
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| Khertan | someone know how to set the scroll position in a mokoui | 18:43 |
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| msh | hrm. user/network seems to have gone away...? | 18:44 |
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| Khertan | fingerscroll ? | 18:44 |
| X-Fade | So, now you know that fingers should not be bigger than 48x48 pixels. | 18:45 |
| wazd | javispedro: no, it would be cooler. "XB-Maemo-icon-26 should be oil-painted" :D | 18:45 |
| javispedro | X-Fade, that's HILDON_FINGER_SIZE (actually I think it's a constant ;) ) | 18:45 |
| Khertan | bye | 18:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | sorry for the delay | 18:46 |
| timeless_mbp | we're busy playing battlestar galactica, much more important | 18:46 |
| Jaffa | wazd: "XB-Maemo-Icon-26" should contain the longitude, lattitude of the oil painting to display in loc:// URI scheme. | 18:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 18:46 |
| fiferboy | I'd like to get some opinions on the "Do not repeat yourself" guideline in the HIG | 18:46 |
| X-Fade | And needs to include Bob Ross episode number. | 18:46 |
| fiferboy | What if I have functionailty in a menubar, but give the user the ability to hide it in fullscreen? | 18:47 |
| fiferboy | s/menubar/toolbar/ | 18:47 |
| infobot | fiferboy meant: What if I have functionailty in a toolbar, but give the user the ability to hide it in fullscreen? | 18:47 |
| wazd | fiferboy: it's not an iPhone, you can do what you want :) | 18:47 |
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| wazd | fiferboy: guidelines are jusr recomendations, not rules | 18:48 |
| fiferboy | wazd: I realize my application won't be rejected because of this, but I want to follow as closely as possible the look and feel of Fremantle | 18:48 |
| * wazd is sick of translating stoopid lawer text for website | 18:48 | |
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| fiferboy | wazd: I'm far more worried my application will be rejected for duplication of core functionality :) | 18:49 |
| wazd | fiferboy: :D | 18:49 |
| wazd | fiferboy: freemantle already duplicates your functionality :D | 18:50 |
| fiferboy | wazd: I assume fremantle will come with some sort of rudimentary bird sighting application pre-installed, and Nokia will feel threatened by my superior version | 18:50 |
| fiferboy | wazd: I know :( | 18:50 |
| wazd | fiferboy: like clock and personal launcher :) | 18:50 |
| fiferboy | wazd: All my biggest sellers are made oboselete. Maybe I should take that as a compliment. | 18:50 |
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| wazd | fiferboy: yeah, you can ask for free device at least :P | 18:51 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Have you investigated how diablo HAM handles 48x48 icons in XB-Maemo-Icon-26? | 18:51 |
| wazd | fiferboy: like "hey guys, you're using my ideas, eh? :P | 18:51 |
| javispedro | Jaffa, not the source, but it just displays them fine. | 18:51 |
| fiferboy | wazd: Well, some of them were your ideas... | 18:51 |
| javispedro | bigger icons are rescaled to 48x48, smaller icons are not rescaled at all. | 18:51 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, when did you get to see the fremantle bird watching application? | 18:52 |
| wazd | fiferboy: well, I have my own list of fremantle ideas used, so all your software belongs to you :) | 18:52 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: wow! sorry, misread "diablo" for "fremantle" ;) | 18:52 |
| javispedro | ok, going to test them now. | 18:52 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Bah :) | 18:52 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: It is just a prediction based on the facts that the N900 hardware is a perfect fit for bird watchers! | 18:52 |
| lcuk | jaffa :) you like the postcard? | 18:52 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: When he found out Nokia were using it to spot a different type of bird and fiferboy subsequently blackmailed them | 18:53 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: lovely ta. Wish you were there ;-) | 18:53 |
| lcuk | this is nokias day :) | 18:53 |
| lardman | I wonder if someone can point me to the right function/idea whereby I can remove all non-alphanumeric chars in a python string | 18:54 |
| lardman | ? | 18:54 |
| lcuk | tho you can have a rough package if you want ;) | 18:54 |
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| lcuk | lardman, urg, i think theres a regex type class isnt there | 18:54 |
| * lcuk dredges memory | 18:54 | |
| wazd | lardman: well, char codes or something? :) | 18:54 |
| lcuk | or is that just recognition | 18:54 |
| wazd | lardman: I'm not a coder but I was making that stuff with VB in university :P | 18:55 |
| lcuk | wazd, did you see the postcard maker? | 18:55 |
| wazd | lcuk: yeah | 18:55 |
| lardman | wazd: well that's what I do in C, but in Python I was wondering if there was a utility, rather than converting each char of the string and testing it | 18:55 |
| Jaffa | lardman: http://docs.python.org/library/re.html | 18:55 |
| lcuk | starting to feel a lot more confident about the frameworks' abilities | 18:56 |
| lardman | Jaffa, lcuk thanks | 18:56 |
| lcuk | you should see the image select! | 18:56 |
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| msh | lardman: ''.join( c for c in string if c.isalnum()) | 18:56 |
| lcuk | =false surely | 18:56 |
| lcuk | he wanted everything but alphanum | 18:56 |
| Jaffa | lardman: something like re.sub("\W+", "") | 18:56 |
| lcuk | addd no | 18:57 |
| msh | lcuk: wanted to remove them? | 18:57 |
| lcuk | tis ok | 18:57 |
| lcuk | me reading wrong lol | 18:57 |
| msh | :) | 18:57 |
| Jaffa | lardman: In fact, result = re.sub("\W+", "", string) | 18:57 |
| lcuk | i wouldv left him with punctuation lol | 18:57 |
| lcuk | , . !!!! | 18:57 |
| lardman | want everything alphanumeric, nothing else :) | 18:57 |
| lardman | so \w in that case I think | 18:58 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, tested a 128x128 icon in diablo, and HAM displayed it without problems ;) | 18:58 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, lol, faster :) | 18:58 |
| javispedro | was waiting for dpkg to end ;) | 18:59 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, I did these tests yesterday ;) | 19:00 |
| AndrewFBlack | don't you hate it when you lose something you wish you hasn't, I decided to do some theme work on my old themes and I don't know where my theme templates are anymore think they are one the computer I wiped and sold a few weeks ago lol | 19:00 |
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| javispedro | yeah, VDVsx Jaffa, confirming: Diablo's HAM rescales to 26x26 | 19:00 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Cool | 19:01 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, did you test older versions? | 19:01 |
| Jaffa | lardman: That replaces anything which isn't alphanumeric with "" (i.e. delete 'em) | 19:01 |
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| * Jaffa <---- regexp monk | 19:01 | |
| VDVsx | javispedro, chinook ? | 19:01 |
| lardman | Jaffa: ideal, thanks | 19:02 |
| javispedro | whatever. qwerty12 mentioned about a h-a-m bug crashing with > 2 KiB icons, but I don't know which versions. | 19:02 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N810^^^ =) | 19:02 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, dunno about that | 19:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It might've been fixed long ago. For all I know, it may have been mistral/bora versions that suffered from the bug | 19:03 |
| javispedro | ta | 19:03 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Although, in that case, not sure why that script would still be in the git :) | 19:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=318654#post318654 <<<< resume : | 19:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | their will be another 'developper programs' | 19:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 19:04 |
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| Khertan_n810 | s/their/there | 19:05 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, ahahah, I was right again about the 48x48-->http://wiki.maemo.org/Q%26A_Porting_to_Fremantle#What_icon_size_should_be_used.3F | 19:06 |
| VDVsx | :P | 19:06 |
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| javispedro | again ++ ;) | 19:06 |
| javispedro | you karma whore ;) | 19:06 |
| *** Khertaninthetrai is now known as Kht_Inthetrain | 19:07 | |
| wazd | requests for pre-authorization of hospitalization or elective surgery <- WHAT THE FUCK does that mean | 19:07 |
| wazd | My brain is boiling out | 19:07 |
| javispedro | thanks VDVsx! | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: America, fuck yeah! :P | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | or something | 19:07 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, :) | 19:07 |
| * javispedro opens inkscape ;) | 19:07 | |
| Kht_Inthetrain | gnié ? | 19:07 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I need to translate it into Russian :) | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: as in that the insurance covers that you are pre-approved to get hospitalized or get surgery.. | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | or something | 19:08 |
| VDVsx | some kinda of VISA ?? lol | 19:08 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: well, when it's out of the whole text - it's more understandable | 19:08 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: but the whole fucking text looks like this | 19:09 |
| Kht_Inthetrain | Someone know how to set the scroll position of a mokoui.Fingerscroll ? | 19:09 |
| Kht_Inthetrain | or of a gtk.ScrolledWindow ? | 19:09 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, danielwims put that a few hours ago! | 19:10 |
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| Kht_Inthetrain | set_scroll_adjustment should be enought isn't it ? | 19:10 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, minutes ;) 15:43(utc) | 19:10 |
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| javispedro | heh, utc. | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, contracts. | 19:11 |
| * javispedro changes maemo.org wiki prefs | 19:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, that's the whole reason lawyers exist. | 19:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | To make contracts completely and utterly unapproachable for normal people. | 19:11 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: that's freaking torture | 19:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, meh, it's the same everywhere. | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: legalese is horrid | 19:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's certainly not limited to insurance. | 19:14 |
| lcuk | legalese should be illegal | 19:14 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: It may well be, but only the lawyers can tell... | 19:15 |
| lcuk | ;) | 19:15 |
| javispedro | Disney buys Marbel. | 19:16 |
| javispedro | *Marvel. | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | scary | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | batman and mickey mouse coming up | 19:16 |
| wazd | Disney vs Marvel fighting? :D | 19:16 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Wow. We will now see shitty Disney classics in comic form | 19:16 |
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| wazd | Donald Duck noir comic :D | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | that's just steel duck or how it is.. | 19:17 |
| _berto_ | Pinoccio vs Wolverine crossover | 19:17 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: pong | 19:17 |
| jaska | what, adamantium dagger nose? | 19:18 |
| wazd | wolverchip & spiderdale :D | 19:18 |
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| wazd | Em, chaps, .aspx is microsoft stuff? No apache in there? | 19:23 |
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| jeremiah | wazd: I think you can call a cgi executable whatever you want, so the suffix is no idication of platform / language | 19:24 |
| jeremiah | I am not sure but I htink you can serve aspx with apache | 19:24 |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 19:24 | |
| jeremiah | Though I doubt anyone who uses ASP or .NET uses much apache. | 19:24 |
| wazd | "As a token of apology for any breach that may occur in our promise of quality service, we shall send you $25 immediately after finalizing an investigation of the event that entitles you to compensation, with the exception of faults caused by force majeure. " -lol :D | 19:25 |
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| wazd | jeremiah: thx :) | 19:25 |
| suihkulokki | jeremiah: I could imagine people preferring .net + mod_mono + apache over any of the java alternatives for apache.. | 19:30 |
| jeremiah | suihkulokki: Yeah, I think actually that would be a lot faster | 19:32 |
| jeremiah | I know that the mono implementation of .NET is faster than Microsofts(!) | 19:32 |
| jeremiah | Hard to believe but apparently their are benchmarks | 19:32 |
| wazd | I'm done with translating! back to CSS... | 19:32 |
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| Khertan | ~ping | 19:48 |
| infobot | ~pong | 19:48 |
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| Khertan | i ve found the solution for mokoui.FingerScroll ... | 19:50 |
| Khertan | scroll_to_cel(cellindex) | 19:50 |
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| thopiekar | ~ping | 19:56 |
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| infobot | ~pong | 19:56 |
| thopiekar | :D | 19:56 |
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| Khertan | yep ... everybody is sleeping or maybe applying to developper programm for n900 | 19:57 |
| Khertan | :) | 19:57 |
| javispedro | developper programm? | 19:58 |
| * Jaffa wants to be adding themeing to Attitude, and uploading a new version to extras-devel. However, instead, I'm going to be a) catching up on tmo and b) sending out accept/reject sponsorship notices. | 19:58 | |
| * javispedro is rescaling icons like if there's no tomorrow. | 19:58 | |
| Khertan | javispedro : it s a joke | 19:59 |
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| thopiekar | hi there, are there any plans for the next Maemo Summit? | 19:59 |
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| Jaffa | thopiekar: Err, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009 | 20:00 |
| Khertan | jaffa ... i think you should try to do accept/reject sponsorship for summit as soon as possible | 20:00 |
| Khertan | as the date is close | 20:00 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: Thank you. I hadn't thought of that :-p | 20:00 |
| thopiekar | naa for the one in 2010 :P | 20:00 |
| Jaffa | thopiekar: Oh, no :) | 20:00 |
| Khertan | and booking for flight could be difficult | 20:00 |
| Khertan | jaffa ... i did doubt that you haven t forget it | 20:01 |
| * thopiekar wants to get the summit back to his city solingen, germany :P | 20:01 | |
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| Jaffa | Khertan: There's a travel agent thing. | 20:01 |
| wazd | Jaffa: oh, skip me, I'm not going anyway :( | 20:01 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Oh? | 20:01 |
| Khertan | but with all the good news we got with n900 | 20:01 |
| Khertan | it easy to be overbooked | 20:01 |
| Khertan | :) | 20:01 |
| thopiekar | We've got a new business park.. I think I have to get some informations about the capacity.. | 20:02 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: It's not N900 stuff particularly. Just everything else. | 20:02 |
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| Khertan | there is already a summit in germany ... maybe other country next time | 20:02 |
| Khertan | jaffa ... yep i could just imagine | 20:02 |
| wazd | Jaffa: well, you can keep me in mind in case there will be a major cataclysm on the Sep 14, hand of god will come to my army dep with international passport and loud voice will say "you should let him leave the country. Obey" :D | 20:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, that sucks so much. | 20:04 |
| Khertan | i ll ask you how it will be organized ..; but i ll not bother you and wait for email _) | 20:04 |
| Khertan | :) | 20:04 |
| * SpeedEvil calls the pope to try to arrange wazd's travel. | 20:05 | |
| Jaffa | Khertan: Lack of emails is one of the blockers for the emails. | 20:05 |
| thopiekar | Khertan: the one in stutgard isn't it? is actually too fair for me.. getting there by train, for example, is for me a bit expensive :/ | 20:05 |
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| lardman | if the wonderful power of the Euro holds we should have the summit in the UK | 20:07 |
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| Khertan | jaffa : mine is khertan@khertan.net _) | 20:07 |
| Khertan | :) | 20:07 |
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| Jaffa | Khertan: Sorry, lack of *details* | 20:07 |
| * SpeedEvil offers his house as a venue. | 20:07 | |
| javispedro | North pole. Then announce Nokia is going to do the developer program thing there. | 20:08 |
| Khertan | ah :) | 20:08 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders a really big tarp, and a fan to inflate it into a nice dome. | 20:08 | |
| Khertan | this is an other games so _) | 20:08 |
| Khertan | :) | 20:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 20:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Which unfortunately ended in tragedy - as everyone present fell through the thin ice. | 20:08 |
| * Khertan want a iceberg and a fan to diffuse cold ! | 20:09 | |
| javispedro | yeah, its way too hot here. | 20:09 |
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| Khertan | maybe we should ask for a portable climatisation for the next maemo device | 20:10 |
| Khertan | it ll be more interesting than an integrated coffe machine ! | 20:10 |
| florian | ... climatisation in a device by a Finnish company ;) | 20:10 |
| javispedro | now that would be a killer feature, unfortunately those in colder countries would get a thousand times more battery life :( | 20:11 |
| Khertan | about battery life my n810 battery is less and less powerfull | 20:12 |
| Khertan | does hot temperature reduce it s life ? | 20:13 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 20:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Lithium batteries are great - however unfortunately they age fairly rapidly especially in high drain things. | 20:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | Expect to replace them after a year or two at the outside. | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're in a hot climate more often. | 20:14 |
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| inz | speed, they make a nice bang when used properly | 20:15 |
| Khertan_ | network connection isn t really stable in train | 20:15 |
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| Khertan_ | it s funny to see the nooby question we can see on talk.maemo.org | 20:16 |
| inz | how can there be 3 minute timeout for 1 minute visit | 20:16 |
| Khertan_ | the n900 seems to interest many people | 20:16 |
| Khertan_ | inz ? | 20:17 |
| inz | ah, sry, misread the nick | 20:17 |
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| Khertan_ | ~ping | 20:17 |
| inz | the underscore makes great difference | 20:17 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:17 |
| Khertan_ | lol | 20:17 |
| Khertan_ | what is strange is that i didnt lost the connection | 20:18 |
| Khertan_ | just the webchat.freenode.net which disconnect me | 20:18 |
| inz | should my train ride interrupt teh inttenets, you wouldnt notice | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | inz: indeed. | 20:19 |
| Khertan_ | say thanks to sfr/vodaphone for blocking everything tghat isn t passing thrue port 80 | 20:19 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc8RqSKU is fun | 20:19 |
| SpeedEvil | (mechanical damage of li-po) | 20:19 |
| Khertan_ | ouch my nokia 6500 phone is really HOT ! | 20:20 |
| Khertan_ | ~ping | 20:20 |
| infobot | ~pong | 20:20 |
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| Khertan_ | 599 euro on fr store | 20:22 |
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| Khertan_ | for an n900 say thank for 20% TVA Tax | 20:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Khertan_: it's designed for cold climates - where that's a feature. | 20:23 |
| lardman | no price in the UK still | 20:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | Khertan_: Where are you in the world? | 20:23 |
| Khertan_ | lardman: out of stock in fr store | 20:23 |
| Khertan_ | speedevil : france | 20:23 |
| lardman | s/out of/none yet | 20:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 20:24 |
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| lardman | hmm, so what are the 3 elements at the top left of the N900? | 20:24 |
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| lardman | VGA camera, light sensor +? | 20:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lardman, LED, proximity, ambient, VGA. | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Light sabre output port. | 20:24 |
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| lardman | LED is bottom left? | 20:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 20:25 |
| lardman | proximity, interesting, how does that work? | 20:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Same way it works on a synth | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | htf do you do proximity anyway? | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | infrared? | 20:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | It bouncen an IR beam off your face. | 20:25 |
| lardman | capacitance? | 20:25 |
| lardman | ah ok | 20:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/bouncen/bounces/ | 20:25 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: It bounces an IR beam off your face. | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:25 |
| slonopotamus | what do you think about using glibc extensions in C? | 20:26 |
| lardman | ah yes, it does look like it has 2 elements in there | 20:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, almost the exact same arrangement on my 5800. | 20:26 |
| lardman | cool | 20:26 |
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| javispedro | slonopotamus, I guess you don't plan to use something other than glibc anytime soon, why you ask? | 20:27 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro, i plan to use uclibc, so i'm checking that extensions exist in both of then | 20:28 |
| javispedro | http://www.uclibc.org/downloads/Glibc_vs_uClibc_Differences.txt | 20:28 |
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| Khertan | [19:23] <Khertan_> lardman: out of stock in fr storen[19:23] <Khertan_> speedevil : francen[19:23] <lardman> s/out of/none yetn[19:23] <Khertan_> france the country of taxesn[19:24] <Khertan_> lardman : the store say : out of stockn[19:24] <Khertan_> of course in french 'epuisé' | 20:29 |
| Khertan | but i didn t believe they have already send one unit | 20:30 |
| lardman | Khertan: yeah I know that, just thinking what it probably means | 20:30 |
| Khertan | specially that the french store didn t know the n810 | 20:30 |
| Khertan | :) | 20:30 |
| Khertan | did expect something accurate from the french store | 20:30 |
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| *** Khertan_ is now known as Khertan2 | 20:33 | |
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| Khertan2 | grrrr | 20:33 |
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| andre__ | javispedro, where can i file dosbox issues? | 20:33 |
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| Khertan2 | but the irc client was really more stable ! | 20:34 |
| javispedro | andre__, /dev/null ;) garage's current owner did not reply to my emails | 20:34 |
| andre__ | javispedro, hehe | 20:34 |
| javispedro | for a start, if it's short enough here will be ok ;) | 20:34 |
| andre__ | javispedro, time to conquer and overtake? | 20:34 |
| andre__ | okay. i cannot enter anything in dosbox 0.73-7maemo1, addressbook always pops up. weird, i know. | 20:34 |
| javispedro | lol. | 20:35 |
| andre__ | any way to debug? | 20:35 |
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| javispedro | no idea so far.. | 20:35 |
| lcuk | andre__, | 20:35 |
| andre__ | javispedro, ah well, x-terminal looks nice already. i'll send you an email | 20:36 |
| javispedro | andre__, thanks | 20:36 |
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| javispedro | of course, it works in xephyr (somewhat, layout is all wrong, but that happened too in diablo sdk) | 20:37 |
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| andre__ | javispedro, when i start DOSBox from x-terminal any input goes into x-temrinal in background instead of DOSBox | 20:39 |
| javispedro | can you try to tap inside the dosbox surface? | 20:40 |
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| javispedro | this is going to be though, since I was also thinking that with a smaller hw keyboard taking care of h-i-m is bigger priority now | 20:42 |
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| Stskeeps | heh, as i predicted: openmoko people coming to N900 | 20:44 |
| javispedro | we have a few already here in this channel, right now | 20:44 |
| Mousey | why can't maemo go to freerunner? | 20:44 |
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| andre__ | openmoko was a nice idea. as communism was. if it works out is always another question. | 20:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because it's about as underpowered as it gets. | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | Mousey: Mer runs on Freerunner :) | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | well, crawls, or runs, dependng on definition | 20:45 |
| Mousey | Stskeeps: in that case, yay!!! ...sort of | 20:45 |
| * javispedro is impressed gerbick is now defending maemo over the other trolls | 20:45 | |
| Stskeeps | maemo does have benefits that can't be denied | 20:46 |
| Mousey | apt-get, for instance | 20:46 |
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| Stskeeps | but frankly, even though there is open source trolls, it's about engaging them and seeing the good things about what we actuall -do- have :P | 20:46 |
| lardman | just wait for the trolls to give up, then we can crack on | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | nah | 20:47 |
| javispedro | 318 users here now, it's slowing but steadily increasing. | 20:47 |
| lardman | or rather crack on, and ignore the trolls till they give up | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | engage the trolls in such a way that they contribute to Mer or gentoo over pure rage over the 20% open source stuff :P | 20:47 |
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| Stskeeps | err. | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | closed source stuff | 20:47 |
| lardman | lol | 20:47 |
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| * javispedro imagines the combined of a thousand trolls processed into a nice powervr driver for n8x0 | 20:48 | |
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| javispedro | *combined rage. | 20:48 |
| lardman | unfortunately I get the feeling most trolls don't do coding, otherwise they'd just get on with it (and would know that 100% open source is very very hard to find) | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: that is still in progress btwe | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | the last updates are looking good | 20:48 |
| javispedro | are they public? | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | the updates? | 20:49 |
| javispedro | yeah, just to get a bit of joy :D | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | i think i referred to qgils post recently | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | i think situation is open kernel driver closed libs | 20:49 |
| javispedro | "recently" as in "a month ago"? | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | as in when i talked to someone about this last | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | just hang on a bit :) | 20:49 |
| * lcuk doesnt want an n900 ;) | 20:50 | |
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| javispedro | don't worry, I may actually have read it and forgotten about it. | 20:50 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps^^ | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | i'll let you know if i discover more | 20:50 |
| lcuk | why is the n900 so open. if it was windows it would be better | 20:50 |
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| javispedro | lcuk troll ;) | 20:50 |
| lcuk | goin for flamebait actually | 20:51 |
| javispedro | today I used liqcalendar. I like it for the quick jobs. | 20:51 |
| lcuk | ill like it more when i hang a tabletpc on the wall | 20:51 |
| javispedro | I think I'm keeping the playground installed. just remember to allow windowed mode ;) | 20:51 |
| lcuk | so far every time ive tried the screen doesnt work | 20:51 |
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| lcuk | i just hammer the nail through gently | 20:51 |
| lcuk | javispedro, its been in system from day1 | 20:52 |
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| lcuk | i just hated it :) | 20:52 |
| lcuk | and it used to be slow at switching | 20:52 |
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| lcuk | cos my x11 code was bad | 20:52 |
| lcuk | and i could never be arsed curing it | 20:52 |
| lcuk | but now its sorted :) | 20:52 |
| javispedro | yeah, saw zach's post. | 20:52 |
| lcuk | which one? | 20:52 |
| * javispedro should have tried to do a gsoc this year :( | 20:53 | |
| javispedro | lcuk, http://blog.zachhabersang.com/?p=129 | 20:53 |
| lcuk | i was glad i was a student this year too | 20:53 |
| javispedro | liqcanvas_init(... int fullscreen) | 20:53 |
| lcuk | yeah :) | 20:53 |
| lcuk | he needs to get his blog wider | 20:54 |
| * lcuk hates thin columns | 20:54 | |
| konttori | what's up? | 20:55 |
| Captain_Picard | why didnt N900 get a 4.3" screen | 20:55 |
| slonopotamus | Captain_Picard, it would be too god | 20:55 |
| lcuk | konttori, z4chhs blog is too thin | 20:55 |
| konttori | nope. 3.5" | 20:55 |
| slonopotamus | s/god/good/ | 20:55 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: Captain_Picard, it would be too good | 20:55 |
| konttori | what blog? | 20:55 |
| Captain_Picard | lol | 20:56 |
| Captain_Picard | to buy a nokia N810 right now | 20:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, so you don't look like a douche holding it to your head? | 20:56 |
| Captain_Picard | costs about 100 euros | 20:56 |
| Captain_Picard | in retail stores | 20:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | The current tablets have 4.13" screen by the way. | 20:56 |
| lcuk | z4chhs with a cool getting started guide for liqbase apps :) http://blog.zachhabersang.com/?p=129 | 20:56 |
| Captain_Picard | GeneralAntilles: from when has anyone useing maemo cared about looking like a douche? | 20:57 |
| konttori | what do I have to put to postinst to get desktop to recognize the new app icon? | 20:57 |
| tbf | Captain_Picard: 'cause resolution is what really matters | 20:57 |
| Captain_Picard | the N900 shouldt be about looks! | 20:57 |
| Captain_Picard | its nerds who use it anyway | 20:57 |
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| javispedro | konttori, gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor | 20:57 |
| konttori | gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor | 20:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, not anymore. | 20:57 |
| tbf | Captain_Picard: well, and cause it shall fit into pockets, i guess | 20:58 |
| konttori | oh. I though that's only to update the icon cache. | 20:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia is pushing the mainstream market now. | 20:58 |
| wazd | konttori: heya, I've a question bout TM | 20:58 |
| konttori | I haven't installed a new icon | 20:58 |
| Captain_Picard | thats just wrong | 20:58 |
| konttori | wazd: ? | 20:58 |
| lcuk | konttori, see pm | 20:58 |
| Captain_Picard | I WANT N900_NERD EDITION | 20:58 |
| tbf | Captain_Picard: going mainstream? | 20:58 |
| javispedro | konttori, uhh, then maemo-select-menu-location dosbox.desktop ? | 20:58 |
| wazd | konttori: why there's no .psd file with layout? :) | 20:58 |
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| wazd | konttori: those green widget zones were very handy | 20:58 |
| Captain_Picard | is there any windows emulation available for maemo 5? | 20:58 |
| konttori | wazd: I can add those zones to next release | 20:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, not if you want Maemo to continue existing. | 20:58 |
| tbf | Captain_Picard: you can be sure that maemo would have been shutdown already if they didn't finally decide to go for main stream | 20:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Captain_Picard, trolls get the boot. | 20:59 |
| lcuk | Captain_Picard, only if run on the starship enterprise holodeck | 20:59 |
| tbf | Captain_Picard: in the end nokia still is a company, not a geek charity | 20:59 |
| wazd | konttori: that would be awesome) | 20:59 |
| lcuk | theres klingons on the starboard side, starboard side starboard side | 20:59 |
| Myrtti | IT'S DEAD JIM | 20:59 |
| Captain_Picard | :D | 20:59 |
| wazd | konttori: and I have a small tip for layout: you can label each widget, if it can use transparency or not | 20:59 |
| konttori | javispedro: in fremantle you cannot choose location. | 21:00 |
| Captain_Picard | i really want to emulate a navigation software from windows on my MA-"Emo" device | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I've wondered for ages why paramount has not licenesed a working combadge. | 21:00 |
| javispedro | konttori, I know, but then I don't know what you want ;) | 21:00 |
| Captain_Picard | what about Google Latitude? is it comming to maemo? | 21:00 |
| Myrtti | Captain_Picard: and I want a pony | 21:01 |
| slonopotamus | Captain_Picard, start 'wine mobile edition' project | 21:01 |
| javispedro | Yes. Google has already launched their assimilation probes. | 21:01 |
| konttori | wazd: I have a nice idea for you: make a layer for me that says those ;) lol, indeed, I could do that. The thing is that for the sales release not all will support transparency, but we are cooking on full (like every widget will) support of transparency | 21:01 |
| javispedro | they're slowly coming to Maemo. | 21:01 |
| Captain_Picard | javispedro: resistance is futile | 21:01 |
| konttori | unfortunately, it's still not quite there and I decided that we won't try to put it into sales. | 21:01 |
| wazd | konttori: well, actually I did that for previous template :D | 21:01 |
| konttori | too much unknowns on that still | 21:02 |
| wazd | konttori: good to hear, keep up the great work :) | 21:02 |
| konttori | wazd: oh, good! | 21:02 |
| Myrtti | I WANT A PONY! | 21:02 |
| Myrtti | now! | 21:02 |
| Myrtti | no? | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: any published deb for nuvo fremantle? | 21:02 |
| Myrtti | you're no fun. | 21:02 |
| * GeneralAntilles waves his magic wand to summon a pony for Myrtti. | 21:02 | |
| wazd | Myrtti: We have only 3.5" Pony's :) | 21:02 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: hmm... not yet. Lemme try a bit and I'll see if I can put the latest to garage. | 21:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anything? | 21:03 |
| Captain_Picard | mainstream ponys with no windows emulation support! | 21:03 |
| * SpeedEvil hands Myrtti a pony - made of cake. | 21:03 | |
| Stskeeps | konttori: ta | 21:03 |
| konttori | It has a bug : highlights do not work. | 21:03 |
| lcuk | ,%%%, | 21:03 |
| lcuk | % `%%%, | 21:03 |
| lcuk | |' )`%%, | 21:03 |
| lcuk | \_/\ %%%, | 21:03 |
| lcuk | __/ %%%--"""-.%, | 21:03 |
| lcuk | /`__| \%% | 21:03 |
| lcuk | \\ \ / | /'%, | 21:03 |
| lcuk | \] | /----'. < `%, | 21:03 |
| lcuk | || `>> > | 21:03 |
| konttori | something wrong with gtkrc file. | 21:03 |
| lcuk | || ///` | 21:03 |
| lcuk | myrtti /( //( | 21:03 |
| Captain_Picard | thats a damn horse not a pony | 21:03 |
| wazd | lcuk: that's a horse :) Not a Pony :) | 21:03 |
| aol_ | it's pretty small on my 14" screen | 21:04 |
| aol_ | must be a pony | 21:04 |
| Myrtti | brilliant | 21:04 |
| GAN800 | and I'm pretty sure that horse is on fire. | 21:04 |
| lcuk | wazd you picky bugger | 21:04 |
| Myrtti | horsie! | 21:04 |
| Captain_Picard | GAN800: looks like a horse on fire yeh | 21:04 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, close enough for you? | 21:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I hope someone put barbecue sauce on before lighting it. | 21:05 |
| Captain_Picard | http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/433734311_eee0ced638_b.jpg | 21:05 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: yup | 21:05 |
| aol_ | Captain_Picard: haha | 21:05 |
| lcuk | hahahahaha urban errors :D | 21:05 |
| lcuk | from troll to hero in 0.1s | 21:05 |
| wazd | there are "expected errors" in IE :) | 21:06 |
| javispedro | "expected errors"=features | 21:06 |
| * SpeedEvil was one of the few who agreed with Rumsfields four unknowns speech. | 21:06 | |
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| wazd | like "And now I'm gonna break my leg" :D | 21:06 |
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| * lcuk looks on his playground and smiles :) | 21:09 | |
| * slonopotamus plays 'Rear_Left.wav' with aplay in gentoo on n800 and smiles | 21:09 | |
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| * javispedro looks at his ugly blurred rescaled icons and smiles | 21:12 | |
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| lcuk | javispedro, good | 21:13 |
| lcuk | and they may appear blurred to you | 21:13 |
| lcuk | but the iphone crowd wont see that | 21:13 |
| javispedro | you're accusing me of making iphone apps? | 21:14 |
| lcuk | no lol | 21:14 |
| javispedro | good. | 21:14 |
| javispedro | :) | 21:14 |
| lcuk | worrying about resized icons | 21:14 |
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| javispedro | maybe true, with a 250ish dpi | 21:15 |
| javispedro | I could just black every other pixel and nobody'd notice. | 21:15 |
| slonopotamus | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYcF_xX2DE8 lol | 21:15 |
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| javispedro | I specially like the comment about the kid dying of "Radioten Poisening" | 21:20 |
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| florian | re | 21:25 |
| lcuk | hiya florian | 21:28 |
| florian | hi lcuk | 21:28 |
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| lcuk | florian, how much further along with oe is everything now then | 21:29 |
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| florian | lcuk: it depends... till "useful for developers" or "ready for a product"? | 21:32 |
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| lcuk | i dunno florian, but i was watching rkirti this summer and trying to understand the recipes model and liked it muchly :) | 21:34 |
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| florian | lcuk: I selected the cheapest device i found and try how it behaves... | 21:38 |
| lcuk | heh cool | 21:38 |
| florian | rkirti: btw. removing that desktop file helped indeed. | 21:39 |
| * RST38h moos evilly | 21:39 | |
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| javispedro | ~reflashing | 21:40 |
| javispedro | ~flash | 21:40 |
| infobot | [flash] For an EEPROM (flash) programmer that can handle any chip except +12V ones, go to http://fly.hiwaay.net/~jfrohwei/circuit/, or a proprietary format for online animations by Macromedia. However "GPL Flash" has now been released @ http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/, or wget http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer/special/beta/installers/linux/plugin/install_flash_player_6_linux.tar.gz, or ap | 21:40 |
| javispedro | ~reflash | 21:40 |
| infobot | [reflash] zImage and/or initrd.bin on CF and press C+D+Reset (collie) OR updater.sh, zimage.bin and/or initrd.bin on CF/SD and press OK while rebooting, then option 4, then CD or SF, then HAI (yes), then wait and cross fingers (all other models) | 21:41 |
| javispedro | ~refsck | 21:41 |
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| javispedro | ~flashing | 21:41 |
| infobot | somebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 21:41 |
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| javispedro | thanks, infobot | 21:41 |
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| javispedro | "Haven't read most of this thread yet (kind of busy during launch) but OVI Maps works without exta payment. Maps and route planning plus info on places is free of charge." | 21:45 |
| javispedro | ah, well, old news seems | 21:45 |
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| RST38h | javis: no voice navigation though | 21:48 |
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| X-Fade | lbt: ping? | 21:51 |
| * javispedro watches cool 48x48 icon in h-a-m and smiles | 21:54 | |
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| RST38h | javis: how? =) | 21:55 |
| javispedro | http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Q%26A_Porting_to_Fremantle&diff=17118&oldid=16278 | 21:56 |
| javispedro | RST38h, ^^^ look at the date ;) | 21:56 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Daniel added that because of your question. | 21:56 |
| javispedro | XB-Maemo-Icon-26 is now a 48x48 icon :) | 21:56 |
| RST38h | ahaha | 21:57 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: thank him for me, and you too :) | 21:57 |
| RST38h | will it still handle 26x26? | 21:57 |
| X-Fade | Yes. | 21:57 |
| X-Fade | It is just smaller ;) | 21:57 |
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| javispedro | btw RST38h, I finally got to fix the latest bug I introduced into openttd 0.7.2, it's usable again, and plan to move it to diablo extras soon | 22:00 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: ping | 22:02 |
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| RST38h | javis: yes yes yes yes | 22:13 |
| slonopotamus | 'XB-Maemo-Icon-26' is 48x48? why not just add XB-Maemo-Icon-48? or read icon side from it :) | 22:15 |
| slonopotamus | i mean, from data itself | 22:16 |
| slonopotamus | or even use svg :) | 22:16 |
| X-Fade | Because it is used in the Packages file, which the Application Manager reads. | 22:16 |
| X-Fade | One big file. | 22:17 |
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| slonopotamus | so? | 22:18 |
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| slonopotamus | one big file is better than many small files | 22:18 |
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| neil__ | hi, anybody know why when I start a gtk app from the xterm is looks different then when started from popen from another process? | 22:23 |
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| X-Fade | neil__: runstandalone.sh ? | 22:26 |
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| neil__ | you mean popen("runstandalone.sh bladibla","r"); ? | 22:26 |
| X-Fade | neil__: /usr/bin/run-standalone.sh yourapp | 22:26 |
| neil__ | I'll try | 22:27 |
| X-Fade | try that from xterm. | 22:27 |
| neil__ | well the thing is when started from xterm it looks like I want | 22:27 |
| neil__ | when started from a osso started service process it look horrible | 22:27 |
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| X-Fade | neil__: define horrible? | 22:28 |
| neil__ | i'll try it is a glade using app | 22:29 |
| neil__ | it is wmgui the gui app of cwiid | 22:29 |
| neil__ | it has some progress bars that look good on the xterm started and are invisible on the other one | 22:29 |
| neil__ | when started with run-standalone.sh from the xterm it still looks ok | 22:30 |
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| neil__ | it goes like this. my statusbar plugin sends a dbus command to an osso service which launches the wmgui which then look 'horrible' | 22:31 |
| X-Fade | neil__: Only pretending to know anything about this, hoping others will take over from here ;) | 22:32 |
| neil__ | horrible also in the sense that the box around a menu is not drawn | 22:32 |
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| neil__ | X-Fade: thanks | 22:32 |
| RST38h | Dozens of alpine cows appear to be committing suicide by throwing themselves off a cliff near the small village in the Alps. In the space of just three days, 28 cows and bulls have mysteriously died after they plunged hundreds of metres to rocks below where they were killed instantly. | 22:33 |
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| aol_ | that's a cow cult. from south park. | 22:34 |
| Myrtti | moo | 22:34 |
| X-Fade | neil__: Did you try to issue show() on everything? | 22:34 |
| neil__ | show()? on what? | 22:34 |
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| zerojay | Aww, no drama? | 22:36 |
| rkirti | re | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, usuk | 22:38 |
| zerojay | Lol | 22:39 |
| zerojay | Why? | 22:39 |
| zerojay | I'm jack black now! | 22:39 |
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| konttori | Stskeeps: Look in garage. https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=36 | 22:39 |
| konttori | nuvofre is there now | 22:39 |
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| neil__ | X-Fade: very nice. when running 'sudo run-standalone.sh wmgui' from the service process it looks nice (well nicer then before) | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, hey, you want drama you ugly son of a bitch, then I'm more than happy to give it to you. :P | 22:40 |
| konttori | it's needs a bit of love. So, please, if you do know how to fix the gtkrc, lemme know. | 22:40 |
| zerojay | Haha | 22:40 |
| MrGoose | is it advisable to use mer yet? | 22:40 |
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| zerojay | Sure. | 22:40 |
| X-Fade | neil__: Well, at least some result then. | 22:40 |
| zerojay | Not really for end users yet though. | 22:41 |
| MrGoose | really? is it stable enough? | 22:41 |
| zerojay | Was when i used it. | 22:41 |
| zerojay | Didn't use it long though. | 22:41 |
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| neil__ | X-Fade: yep. thanks a lot. one step further in having wiimote control my n800... | 22:42 |
| MrGoose | well my n800 has been a bit sluggish recently | 22:42 |
| konttori | neil__: have you used wiicontrol? | 22:42 |
| neil__ | well I am trying to | 22:43 |
| RST38h | ok, will go die in my sleep. | 22:43 |
| konttori | neil__: so, what's the problem | 22:43 |
| neil__ | used cwiid and xwii. cwiid looks best | 22:43 |
| konttori | so, why not wiicontrol? | 22:43 |
| neil__ | where can i find wiicontrol? I seem to have missed something | 22:43 |
| konttori | shttp://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2008/05/wiicontrol-for-nokia-n810-n800.html | 22:43 |
| konttori | http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2008/05/wiicontrol-for-nokia-n810-n800.html | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | MrGoose, stability isn't the issue, friendly UI features are. | 22:44 |
| konttori | you should find that in extras afaik | 22:44 |
| konttori | but that blog post has the link as well | 22:44 |
| konttori | neil__: you just need to have python installed first | 22:44 |
| MrGoose | GeneralAntilles: cool | 22:45 |
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| neil__ | konttori: thanks for the link, watching the video now | 22:45 |
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| Khertan | Hi again :) | 22:47 |
| Khertan | is there a way to detect why my nit reboot without any reason ? | 22:47 |
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| zerojay | Watchdog. | 22:50 |
| Luke-Jr | Khertan: you just said there was no reason, so the answer to "why" is obviously "no reason" | 22:51 |
| Luke-Jr | <.< | 22:51 |
| konttori | neil__: np | 22:51 |
| neil__ | konttori: hehe it works... | 22:52 |
| konttori | neil__: if you want to improve it, go ahead. All source code is included in that deb (as it's python) | 22:52 |
| * konttori should try it with n900 | 22:52 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | And YouTube the result? :) | 22:52 |
| neil__ | well first I have to recover from the shock of all my useless hard work on my cwiid stuff | 22:52 |
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| MrGoose | konttori you have an n900? | 22:52 |
| konttori | yeah | 22:53 |
| MrGoose | konttori where do you live and how long does it take for the cops to get there? | 22:53 |
| konttori | Well, I'm heading Fremantle applications framework, so I should have one to check how we are doing, no? | 22:53 |
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| konttori | so, I'm in helsinki and spend most of my time working on fremantle. | 22:54 |
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| ShadowJK | MrGoose, for a "Help someone stole my cellphone!"? Days. | 22:56 |
| konttori | MrGoose: anyway, come to nokia world on wednesday and I can show my device to you :) | 22:56 |
| MrGoose | konttori hmmm nokia world? I bet that isnt in England | 22:57 |
| ShadowJK | Do you think I could find someone there who could tell me why Nokia has erased all traces of HS-45 and AD-54 from their websites? :) | 22:58 |
| konttori | stutgart | 22:58 |
| konttori | ShadowJK: what are those? | 22:58 |
| timeless_mbp | konttori: ping | 22:59 |
| konttori | here | 22:59 |
| timeless_mbp | how's your North American geography? | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | AD-54 has a male 3.5mm AV plug, some cable that ends in a control unit (volume, call, play, stop, next, previous) and a 3.5mm stereo output port | 22:59 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: really bad, but what about it? | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | headphone extension cable with music controls on the end | 23:00 |
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| ShadowJK | It was bundled with HS-45, some generic-looking earbuds of dubious fidelity | 23:00 |
| konttori | I was couning once how many states I remembered and I almost remembered all. Just a few missing. But I did spend a lot of time trying to remember them | 23:00 |
| wazd | konttori: I guess silence on the device will remain untill NW, so we expect you to become 24/7 YouTube n900 reviewer after that :P | 23:01 |
| Myrtti | ShadowJK: oh that messy thing that's in my handbag tangling everywhere and is useless if you've got passkey enabled in the phone? | 23:02 |
| thopiekar | hi | 23:02 |
| thopiekar | whats up with the qt4 libs for maemo? | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | Myrtti, my phone doesn't have media keys, so I found it quicker and easier than taking phone out of pocket and waiting for the screen to activate :) | 23:03 |
| thopiekar | can't find them in the repos | 23:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://thenokiablog.com/2009/08/29/nokia-n900-variant-850-1900-3g/ | 23:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not good. | 23:03 |
| konttori | wazd: I cannot really come out until device is in shops | 23:03 |
| konttori | I think we are under radio silence until that (or very close) time | 23:03 |
| wazd | konttori: oh | 23:04 |
| thopiekar | where can i find them? | 23:04 |
| * konttori goes to watch us open | 23:05 | |
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| wazd | http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackarus/3856832507/sizes/o/ | 23:06 |
| wazd | damn, n97 shoots better than my friend's compact :) | 23:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | Even at lower light wazd? | 23:16 |
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| wazd | SpeedEvil: well, his comapct is pretty shitty | 23:18 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: I was really surprised how shitty it is :D | 23:18 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: but n97 image quality is pretty fine, especially for a phone | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - some compact cameras are really phone chips :) | 23:20 |
| SpeedEvil | phone imagers that is. | 23:21 |
| SpeedEvil | VGA imagers are below $1 in quantity | 23:21 |
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| toggles_w | make | 23:28 |
| Mousey | make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. | 23:28 |
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| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Odd question. :) | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: at Nokia, we work hard to "Upset as many Nationals as Possible" (tm) | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | Landing Islands square in the Mainland of a country | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | moving cities across borders into neighboring countries | 23:30 |
| timeless_mbp | confusing States from one continent with Islands in another ocean | 23:31 |
| lcuk | surely you can just give ovi maps random coordinates | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: try 20210 in maps.ovi.com | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | Expelling cities from Kingdoms into their own lesser entities | 23:31 |
| lcuk | cos putting a pin in the screen to mark who you are gonna pee off today would be expensive | 23:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | especially those who have spent decades or more fighting wars over similar issues | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | oooh its color now | 23:32 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | last time i saw an ovi map it was b&w | 23:32 |
| lcuk | or was that something else ovi | 23:32 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: no, it's colour | 23:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | we also try to confuse Islands with Countries | 23:34 |
| lcuk | timeless, i didnt know beverly hills was in oulu | 23:34 |
| lcuk | mind you, thats easy | 23:34 |
| lcuk | it found somewhere | 23:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcuk: finding somewhere isn't interesting | 23:35 |
| timeless_mbp | finding the right place is important | 23:35 |
| timeless_mbp | and in case people are curious, i'm not using / talking about ovi maps | 23:35 |
| timeless_mbp | that's another unrelated disaster | 23:35 |
| * timeless_mbp has already given it an F | 23:35 | |
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| lcuk | what are you trying then | 23:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, it's part of the OS base :) | 23:36 |
| timeless_mbp | what else would need cities? :) | 23:36 |
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| javispedro | the world clock app? :) | 23:36 |
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| javispedro | http://ki6amd.tumblr.com/post/170762673/n900-what-you-must-know | 23:40 |
| javispedro | ah... | 23:40 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Hahaha. | 23:40 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Nokia: Pissing People Off | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: :) | 23:41 |
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| javispedro | "Maemo devs Please don’t go wild with the N900 accelerometer… I don’t want to look like an iPhone idiot who’s looking for a place to eat. " | 23:42 |
| zerojayPC | Yeah, that's actually the guy that was arguing with me about Peter claiming there's an FM receiver. | 23:42 |
| javispedro | quite a strong opinionated guy | 23:42 |
| zerojayPC | Yeah... eventually got it worked out. | 23:43 |
| javispedro | "The N900 doesn’t include a stylus" | 23:43 |
| zerojayPC | But yeah, no surprise. | 23:43 |
| aquatix | like you need one | 23:43 |
| javispedro | you need, at least to currently play OpenTTD ;) | 23:43 |
| tbf | javispedro: and for web pages | 23:43 |
| tbf | the web doesn't care about finger size UI | 23:44 |
| aquatix | tbf: finger nail | 23:44 |
| aquatix | i never use my n810's stylus | 23:44 |
| javispedro | but, the n900 has a stylus doesn't it? it's on the lower left corner afaik | 23:44 |
| javispedro | *right corner. | 23:44 |
| tbf | javispedro: of course it has one | 23:44 |
| javispedro | that guy actually puts references so I was starting to doubt my sanity. | 23:45 |
| * lcuk hopes its usable | 23:45 | |
| aol_ | they removed the stylus from Nokia 5230 too (5800 derivate) | 23:45 |
| javispedro | in this world were everything is wrong, even first sources are wrong | 23:45 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 23:51 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, how's sound? | 23:53 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: sound compiled, running, but i hear nothing | 23:53 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, check alsamixer? | 23:55 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: i have only pcm, 100% and not muted | 23:56 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, try wav files from /usr/share/sounds/alsa/ with aplay | 23:57 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, if they work, smth is wrong between your player and alsa | 23:57 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: they play, but i hear nothing. | 23:58 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, oh, /etc/init.d/alsasound started? | 23:58 |
| johnsq | yes | 23:58 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, and /etc/init.d/osso-dsp-loader ? | 23:59 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: dmesg [ 1348.015625] EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled | 23:59 |
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