| slonopotamus | strange :/ | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| javispedro | hats off to whoever made the maemo 5 user interface ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_uRmoy8Fs) | 00:02 |
| javispedro | everyone I've shown it (nokia marketing should pay me ;) ) did say something along the lines of "me-wants-it". | 00:02 |
| wazd | yeah, wanna lick the display :D | 00:02 |
| javispedro | i'm not a fan of noisy music, but I actually like the tune. | 00:03 |
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| wazd | tune is absolutely head exploding | 00:03 |
| wazd | Can't stop rocking with it :) | 00:03 |
| javispedro | :) | 00:03 |
| javispedro | Nokia should put that on TV | 00:04 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, stop alsasound, put http://dpaste.com/87898/ in /var/lib/alsa/asound.state and start it again | 00:04 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: after installing sound, udev must be restarted. | 00:04 |
| wazd | javispedro: well, shorter version :) | 00:04 |
| wazd | javispedro: or AD budget will sky rocket after day 2 :D | 00:04 |
| javispedro | heh :) | 00:04 |
| gunni_ | I got a question. I tried to setup Maemo 5 SDK, and worked step by step through installation instructions, but following command fails: | 00:05 |
| gunni_ | [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start | 00:05 |
| gunni_ | bash: af-sb-init.sh: command not found | 00:05 |
| javispedro | gunni, you probably are missing the nokia binaries step. | 00:06 |
| gunni_ | Hmm, no i did this step | 00:06 |
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| gunni_ | I will try to update once more | 00:06 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: Unknown hardware: "EAC" "TLV320AIC33" "" "" "" | 00:06 |
| slonopotamus | err | 00:07 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, you didn't put html garbage there? :) | 00:07 |
| dark | Anyone knows ettercap | 00:08 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, !!! i know | 00:08 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, n810 is supposed to have _two_ volume controls | 00:09 |
| gunni_ | javispedro: Odd. Seems you were right. My sources.list was reset, binary line was missing, and i have to install binaries again | 00:09 |
| javispedro | gunni_, you have to understand that there are two SDk targets: x86 and armel | 00:10 |
| javispedro | they share /home only | 00:10 |
| javispedro | but not the rest of the system | 00:10 |
| javispedro | you probably installed the binaries for one of the two only. | 00:10 |
| gunni_ | javispedro: Ah, ok, did not know that. And is not clearly stated in the instructions | 00:10 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, run alsamixer -c 0 | 00:11 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, and unmute 'line' | 00:11 |
| javispedro | gunni_, yeah, it maybe a bit unclear. | 00:12 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, forget asound.state | 00:12 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: now working | 00:12 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, cool! | 00:13 |
| * slonopotamus reads what alsamixer -c 0 does | 00:13 | |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: uses card 0 | 00:13 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, and what it uses without args? | 00:14 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: default or? | 00:14 |
| gunni_ | Does anyone know whom to contact to fix a typo in the instruction? "run-standalone.sh hldon-status-menu&" .... two typos :) | 00:14 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, looks like we just need to remove asound.conf | 00:14 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: mixer looks better without asound.conf | 00:15 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: but aplay needs its. | 00:16 |
| javispedro | gunni_, https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Development%20platform | 00:16 |
| javispedro | (I think :) ) | 00:16 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, i thing it needs some tweaking... | 00:16 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, try commenting out 'ctl.!default' section in /etc/asound.conf | 00:18 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, if it still sounds without it, i'll just add a patch that removes it | 00:20 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: perhaps apps need it to control the mixer. | 00:20 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, dunno. i never configured alsa manually, just ran alsaconf | 00:22 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, do your mp3s work? :) | 00:22 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: i had the problem with my laptop to output hdmi as default. | 00:22 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, i updated wiki docs (udev thing too) | 00:23 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: madplay says bad ioctl. I compile strace too look | 00:24 |
| slonopotamus | meh | 00:24 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: madplay -o raw:- /mnt/tmp/mp3/*.mp3 | aplay -f cd - is working | 00:28 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, that's cheating :) | 00:28 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: fine working and 2 application compiling. | 00:28 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, 2??? | 00:30 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: yes i started to build python and than i needed strace | 00:30 |
| slonopotamus | oh my :) not scared of watchdog? | 00:31 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: ear-phones are also working "HP" switch | 00:32 |
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| slonopotamus | johnsq, i published updated stage with gcc-4.3 and python-2.6 | 00:32 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, are you for gtk or qt, btw? | 00:33 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: I use native x11 with libxcb. but I can't use qt because it requires c++ and i don't write program in c++ | 00:34 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, my wife doesn't code at all, but happily uses kde-4.3 :) | 00:36 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: I use gtk+ and qt apps, but no gnome or kde apps. | 00:38 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, okay. if you figure out why madplay doesn't play, /msg me, ok? | 00:38 |
| * slonopotamus gone to sleep | 00:39 | |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: ok, good work with sound | 00:39 |
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| tbf | johnsq: let's create some c bindings for qt :-D | 00:42 |
| johnsq | tbf: than i make bindings for corescript. | 00:42 |
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| lardman | night all | 00:47 |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, which mail address should i put on the changelog for liqtorch | 00:51 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Don't worry about it, I'd have ran dch myself if it mattered :) | 00:52 |
| javispedro | btw qwerty12_N810, thanks a lot for the wmctrl idea ;) | 00:53 |
| lcuk | okies :) | 00:53 |
| lcuk | -- Faheem Pervez <qwerty12@southernjessieland.com> Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:05:41 +0000 | 00:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: heh | 00:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~lcuk is a tosser | 00:54 |
| infobot | okay, qwerty12_N810 | 00:54 |
| lcuk | :D | 00:54 |
| javispedro | yeah, you saved me a few hours of searching and coding | 00:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ~botsnack | 00:54 |
| infobot | qwerty12_N810: thanks | 00:54 |
| * GeneralAntilles dies. | 00:56 | |
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| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: eh? | 00:59 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: firefox 3.5.2 is running now. | 00:59 |
| javispedro | Requiescat in pace :) | 00:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, moving, and it's too hot in Florida. | 01:00 |
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| tbf | regarding t-mobile and voip and such: for germany t-mobile and vodafone just announced voip rates | 01:07 |
| tbf | €9.99 - http://news.google.de/news/story?pz=1&ncl=d3-3dwQ1oJTAq9MrDfedUfraZJcuM&topic=t | 01:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: i'm glad to hear i was told not to go to maemo summit | 01:09 |
| * timeless_mbp feels so much better | 01:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Told NOT to? | 01:09 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: italian mafia? :D | 01:09 |
| timeless_mbp | at least by the council | 01:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i haven't heard from nokia yet | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, well, WE were told to reject sponsorship requests from employees. | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which I believe was explained in that email. | 01:10 |
| timeless_mbp | it was | 01:10 |
| wazd | timeless_mbp: you can use my slot :D | 01:10 |
| timeless_mbp | still, tossing out my entire registration was uncalled for | 01:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and resulted in dataloss | 01:10 |
| timeless_mbp | i had to pick my tshirt info again | 01:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, the alternative was to have a lot of registrations sitting around eating up spots for people who may never have come. | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, it could've been handled more nicely. | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | But we're limited both by time and Midgard functionality. | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Nokia people should probably have been special cased as well. | 01:12 |
| timeless_mbp | how many nokians actually asked for sponsorship? | 01:12 |
| timeless_mbp | it couldn't have been more than a handful | 01:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd be shocked if you needed more than one hand to count them all | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, well, the whole deal has been handled by about 3 otherwise very busy unpaid volunteers. | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Half dozen or so maybe. | 01:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, it's something that should be addressed the next time around. | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's not much to be done about it now. | 01:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway, if someone doesn't agree to pay for me | 01:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not promising to come | 01:15 |
| timeless_mbp | and nokia hasn't really reimbursed me for previous travels | 01:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | so please don't expect me to show up | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully Nokia wont be stingy with its employees. | 01:15 |
| timeless_mbp | your event is during my vacation | 01:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Else there's not a whole lot of point in calling it a Summit. | 01:16 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a significant detour from my target area | 01:16 |
| * GeneralAntilles blames Maemo Software for that one. | 01:16 | |
| GeneralAntilles | If Fremantle hadn't been delayed, the Summit wouldn't have been moved. ;) | 01:16 |
| timeless_mbp | Maemo Software has been dead for 2 months :) | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, which is why Maemo Devices couldn't have a whole lot to do with the delays. :D | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, the Summit will be a poorer event without you. | 01:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Possibly yet one more reason for me not to attend. :( | 01:18 |
| lcuk | bah! dont you start | 01:20 |
| lcuk | what other reasons? | 01:20 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, i will miss you if you dont turn up even if its only for a 10 minute drunken convo :) | 01:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no AT&T 3G support | 01:21 |
| lcuk | and? | 01:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which would make it utterly pointless for me to buy a device | 01:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially without a discount program | 01:21 |
| lcuk | you have spent as long as i have known you telling us you WANT seperete devices | 01:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | and waiting until next year for a device WHICH might have AT&T 3G support will utterly exhaust any enthusiasm I have left for this platform. | 01:21 |
| lcuk | and you like the fact they arent together | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | My level of care is dropping rapidly. | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | They are together now | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | so there's not much to be done about that. | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | If I'm going convergence I'm not going halfway. | 01:22 |
| zerojay | I'll do my best to make up for timeless. | 01:22 |
| lcuk | but why does the network speed matter | 01:22 |
| zerojay | I'm a light drunk. Lol | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, have you ever used EDGE? | 01:22 |
| zerojay | I'm on edge. | 01:22 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i have NO internet on my tablet currently | 01:23 |
| zerojay | Didn't realize it. | 01:23 |
| lcuk | ANYTHING is better | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, well I've had 3G for the past 2 years | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | and EDGE for the year before that. | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not going back to it | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially not with an über-connected device like the N900. | 01:23 |
| lcuk | does iphone have 3g where you are | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 01:23 |
| lcuk | and why cant you | 01:23 |
| timeless_mbp | he's in the major east coast area | 01:24 |
| lcuk | im english | 01:24 |
| lcuk | why does this matter | 01:24 |
| * javispedro has never used any kind of carrier wireless connection, and doesn't plan to do so, even if he ends up with an n900. | 01:24 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk: because US networks suck ass | 01:24 |
| lcuk | javispedro, i would have to do some serious bending on my pay as i go sim | 01:24 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: well, you're looking at it wrong | 01:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no T-Mobile 3G support in the areas I frequent. | 01:24 |
| lcuk | well most things american suck ass | 01:24 |
| lcuk | but that cant be helped | 01:24 |
| zerojay | I used to say i would never get a wireless connection. | 01:24 |
| lcuk | ok | 01:24 |
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| lcuk | i will be happy with dialup tbh | 01:25 |
| timeless_mbp | the US coverage area is potentially larger than most of what people in Europe care about | 01:25 |
| zerojay | Truth is you can't really appreciate the tablet without one. | 01:25 |
| lcuk | irc and twitter and updates | 01:25 |
| lcuk | zerojay, without what | 01:25 |
| lcuk | a connection? | 01:25 |
| timeless_mbp | but most people in Europe don't spend time in areas without coverage | 01:25 |
| zerojay | Yeah. | 01:25 |
| timeless_mbp | or with poor coverage | 01:25 |
| lcuk | ive got an 810 here now | 01:25 |
| * lcuk waves it | 01:25 | |
| zerojay | Me too. | 01:25 |
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| lcuk | the n900 will connect to the same hotspots | 01:25 |
| aol_ | I stopped using WLANs altogether after got flat-rate 3g | 01:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: what? I can't see what's right with having two networks using CDMA and the two GSM-using networks using dodgy frequencies :) | 01:26 |
| lcuk | at the same or faster speeds | 01:26 |
| timeless_mbp | in the us, there are 4-5 carriers | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm used to having good 3G coverage everywhere I go. | 01:26 |
| lcuk | apart from with your current device | 01:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and each one essentially has to grow its own independent coverage map | 01:26 |
| zerojay | I use wifi at home, that's it | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not going to pay high $$$ to give that up. | 01:26 |
| timeless_mbp | full infrastructure | 01:26 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, what are you giving up | 01:26 |
| lcuk | you have nothing now | 01:26 |
| lcuk | no 3g | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, INCOMPATIBLE coverage map. | 01:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and the return isn't great for upgrading | 01:26 |
| lcuk | no 2 | 01:26 |
| lcuk | 2g | 01:26 |
| lcuk | no 1g | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I have a 5800 that I can tether to without issue. | 01:26 |
| lcuk | you have in house wifi | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thus, 3G everywhere I go. | 01:27 |
| lcuk | then carry on doing the frikkin same | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: yeah well, that's part of the why :) | 01:27 |
| lcuk | ?? | 01:27 |
| lcuk | or will that not be allowed? | 01:27 |
| zerojay | How can you do that when you aren't at home? | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, then I can't use the N900 as a phone at all. | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, i was on the phone w/ AT&T and T-Mobile USA earlier (well, call it late Monday local time) | 01:27 |
| lcuk | can the n900 tether still | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: tether = ? | 01:27 |
| zerojay | I think so. | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bluetooth DUN to my 5800, probably. | 01:27 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't host DUN if that's what you mean | 01:27 |
| lcuk | bluetooth connection to another phone | 01:28 |
| lcuk | on generals perfect network | 01:28 |
| Mousey | as in if ihave sprint and don't feel like being an at&t/t-mobile customer, cuz in comparison their data networks (and coverage) suck | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I'm not carrying two devices if one of them is already a phone. | 01:28 |
| Mousey | better yet would be a CDMA version of n900, or even better, no cel radio ^_^ | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i think you'd need to use WiFi hosting from the other phone | 01:28 |
| Mousey | i don't mine carrying multiple devices | 01:28 |
| * lcuk snapshots that | 01:28 | |
| timeless_mbp | because i don't see a way to configure DUN as the client | 01:28 |
| lcuk | and digs for the flop | 01:28 |
| timeless_mbp | Mousey =~ s/mine/mind/ | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm nearly done caring. | 01:29 |
| Mousey | yah, thats what i mean | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia World is probably going to decide everything for me. | 01:29 |
| timeless_mbp | isn't that today? | 01:29 |
| lcuk | the scariest post in the world | 01:30 |
| lcuk | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?s=63ca7baa5072bb5bcea98f8bd0e6c86a&p=219732&postcount=68 | 01:30 |
| lcuk | general, i really dont ever want to know what pants you wear tyvm | 01:30 |
| lcuk | some poor porn surfer could encounter your post | 01:30 |
| lcuk | and wonder wtf is goin on | 01:30 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 01:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i think you'd need a belt depending on device weight | 01:31 |
| lcuk | with quick release clips | 01:31 |
| timeless_mbp | nah, just to keep the weights from causing your pants to drop | 01:31 |
| timeless_mbp | this is just leaving them in your pocket | 01:31 |
| * timeless_mbp had 4 devices in pockets earlier | 01:31 | |
| lcuk | braces | 01:31 |
| timeless_mbp | n81, n900, n900, nokia flip phone | 01:31 |
| lcuk | 2 n900s? | 01:32 |
| * timeless_mbp has no idea what the public model number was for that last one | 01:32 | |
| timeless_mbp | yes, "red" and "green" | 01:32 |
| lcuk | o_O | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i prefer to have two devices | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | it makes comparison testing easier | 01:32 |
| lcuk | cases or base colors? | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | just bluetooth names | 01:32 |
| lcuk | or gone back to detactable? | 01:32 |
| lcuk | ohhh ffs | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the n81 is selma, and the flipphone was chicken :) | 01:32 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:32 |
| timeless_mbp | and one of them for a while was demoing a feature we really don't want to ship | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | but it seems to have decided to stop demoing it, which is great :) | 01:33 |
| lcuk | i found lukes phone was called birdshit the other day | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 01:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: when I come to steal one, my conscience will be a little more clear knowing that you have two | 01:33 |
| lcuk | i changed it back to bucket | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 01:33 |
| timeless_mbp | they're not formally mine, they're officially attached to other people. so i have to return them so they can return them | 01:33 |
| lcuk | this packaging lark is long winded | 01:34 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, no way, that was my idea too, so when he wakes up and find he has none... | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise, i lose my Audrey (for which I promised to bring an adapter a while ago, maybe today) | 01:34 |
| timeless_mbp | hey, if i don't go, you can't take :) | 01:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: fine, I'll give my N800, you give your N810? :) | 01:34 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 01:34 | |
| timeless_mbp | you guys have seen my n800/n810's, right? | 01:35 |
| timeless_mbp | adding one more of each won't really help me | 01:35 |
| javispedro | how evil :) | 01:35 |
| lcuk | timeless, do you ever turn all of em on | 01:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: But you can throw them at the Nokia ninjas! | 01:35 |
| lcuk | and just want to make em all work in unison | 01:35 |
| lcuk | like a chorus :) | 01:35 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: sure, when i go places and let people play w/ them | 01:35 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, um | 01:36 |
| lcuk | thats not quite the same | 01:36 |
| timeless_mbp | there have been times when i've done stuff like that | 01:36 |
| timeless_mbp | i've certainly raced them | 01:36 |
| lcuk | i keep having thoughts about using multi devices for ide | 01:36 |
| lcuk | one screen edit window | 01:36 |
| timeless_mbp | but i tend to know which ones will win/lose :) | 01:36 |
| lcuk | 1 screen project tree | 01:36 |
| lcuk | etc | 01:36 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 01:36 |
| lcuk | i found a nice little udp library for that kind of stuff :) | 01:36 |
| lcuk | how many have you got timeless | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dual monitor, baby. http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2519138266/ | 01:38 |
| * GeneralAntilles has a DS here with no charger for some reason. | 01:40 | |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 01:41 |
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| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 01:41 | |
| * timeless_mbp needs to finish fighting strings | 01:41 | |
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| sivang | hi all | 01:41 |
| sivang | any nokia folks around ? | 01:41 |
| lcuk | pretend there is and ask anyway | 01:42 |
| lcuk | "are there any police in this bar" | 01:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I'm from Nokla. Give us a model number and we'll clone it! | 01:42 |
| javispedro | and I'm a doctor, not from Nokia! | 01:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm from the government and I'm here to help! | 01:44 |
| javispedro | lol :) | 01:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That's the sort of phrase that gives me nightmares. | 01:45 |
| * timeless_mbp whacks javispedro | 01:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | thanks for reminding me that i need to find a doctor (MD) from Nokia | 01:46 |
| qwerty12_N810 | As in the town Nokia? :p | 01:46 |
| timeless_mbp | do you know how much respect I have for people from that town? | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | they're famous for their plumbers | 01:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Zilch? | 01:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | who connected the sewage line to their water line | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | it worked fine until one day the pressure wasn't right... | 01:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lol | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_water_supply_contamination | 01:48 |
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| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 01:48 | |
| timeless_mbp | that article wasn't written by a native speaker | 01:49 |
| timeless_mbp | someone please fix it? | 01:49 |
| timeless_mbp | "there was a poorly designed installation" | 01:49 |
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| javispedro | the whole paragraph sounds a bit funny even to me. | 01:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Nokia: Contaminating people | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia: Contaminated Pedophiles | 01:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Dammit, who's gonna put that image in Extras? | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Someone just needs to do an MS Paint job. | 01:52 |
| javispedro | as a bootsplash? | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd! | 01:52 |
| javispedro | "Today's Nokia is famous for its spa, factory shops, waterways, and events. " hum. | 01:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, have you seen the bootsplash replacement packages (shameless plug). | 01:53 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: the whole paragraph is funny | 01:53 |
| timeless_mbp | xxx please fix it :) | 01:54 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles, I actually remember having seen a bootsplash package, but don't remember any of the images off my head (yes, my memory is that useful ;) ) | 01:54 |
| javispedro | timeless, I'm not a native speaker either | 01:54 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: if you can tell the current paragraph is garbage, you can surely improve it | 01:54 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Need a new bootsplash for Mer?... | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | not necessarily make it perfect, but still | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/athf-splash | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need some real reviews to push out the BS duped reviews. :P | 01:56 |
| javispedro | ah sorry, I don't know what's on the picture (that's why I probably forgot) :P | 01:56 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | "deez images are da shit dey beat that stock pedo image" | 01:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | For those with less interesting tastes: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemoorg-splash/ | 01:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_Teen_Hunger_Force | 01:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Specifically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_Teen_Hunger_Force#Boston_bomb_scare | 01:57 |
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| javispedro | "the authorities considered the LEDs suspicious prompting the closure of major roads and waterways for investigation" .... | 01:58 |
| javispedro | "Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley said the device "had a very sinister appearance. It had a battery behind it, and wires."" | 01:59 |
| javispedro | enuff said. I hope he doesn't own a phone. | 01:59 |
| timeless_mbp | or a game station, like a NES :) | 01:59 |
| javispedro | I wonder what this guy did to his TV remote | 01:59 |
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| javispedro | ah, it's not a guy even. | 02:00 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Had it checked out by the bomb squad? =) | 02:00 |
| timeless_mbp | with a name like Martha? | 02:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i sure home not | 02:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | wtf | 02:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | abiword | 02:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | doesn't work with the bt keyboard? | 02:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | or the qwerty? | 02:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | what kind of retarded shit is that? | 02:01 |
| javispedro | Abiword doesn't work with the hw keyboard? | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | no | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'm typing on it now in xchat | 02:01 |
| lcuk | in which os | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | and abiword doesn't work | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | maemo | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | maemo4 | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'm on my su8w | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | and i can't type a paper in abiword with the kb or the qwerty | 02:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | what a load of shit :) | 02:01 |
| lcuk | packaging is a bitch! | 02:01 |
| lcuk | or rather, time consuming bitch! | 02:02 |
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| javispedro | did anybody had a look at that? is known? | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | damnit | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | i need to type something | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | guess i'll bust out the laptop | 02:02 |
| timeless_mbp | s/home/hope/ | 02:02 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: i sure hope not | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | just wanted to try out | 02:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | damnit | 02:02 |
| lcuk | file a bug then | 02:03 |
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| * javispedro is reminded of the "browser not accepting atilde; chars from the hw keyboard bug", which forced me to type things in Notes then copy & paste. | 02:03 | |
| MaceN8x0 | what a bunch of shit heh | 02:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | where would i file a bug for that? | 02:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 02:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | MaceN8x0: Using it with the N810 keyboard works for me. What version do you have installed? | 02:04 |
| * VDVsx -> 193 'summitters' after the round of rejections, nice ;) | 02:04 | |
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| MaceN8x0 | hm.... | 02:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | (2.7.6-0hub3 here) | 02:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | Random: Does the flash version suffer from the bug that's been affecting flash for ages on linux where you can't type most non-english languages? | 02:07 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, your registration for the summit is missing :G | 02:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | 2.7.6 | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-40 | 02:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'm running that version | 02:07 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: :) | 02:08 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, test url? | 02:08 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, btw, what about to the summit ? coming ? :P | 02:08 |
| javispedro | I don't know yet, but I'm a bit worried that when I know it'll be too late. | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | qwerty12_N810, what version are you running? | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | i'm running 2.7.6 | 02:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | MaceN8x0: 12:06am <qwerty12_N810> (2.7.6-0hub3 here) | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | and no kb is working | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | in maemor4 | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | ? | 02:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Yep | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | ddamnit | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | same version | 02:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | let me try to close the bt | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: err /me tries to remember. | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I assume you don't have an openstreetmap account? | 02:10 |
| javispedro | assumption status: correct ;) | 02:11 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, hurry up, only 107 free seats atm, lolol | 02:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | weird. it started working | 02:11 |
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| javispedro | damn, Horatio Caine dies? | 02:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: oh noez! Sounds like people better hurry! | 02:12 |
| javispedro | bah, he does not. | 02:13 |
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| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, and you should be the first one to do it :P | 02:13 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, who's that guy ? :P | 02:14 |
| javispedro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Caine (fic) | 02:14 |
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| javispedro | playing with wmctrl i've now counfsed fremantle enough to display every window when I click on the top left menu button. including, but not limited to, the app manager, the applications list, the top level menu, and conboy. | 02:15 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, ah ok, I don't watch CSI ;) | 02:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.geowiki.com/keycode/keycode.html javispedro - try entering any language that has multiple keystrokes per letter chinese or ... forex | 02:15 |
| javispedro | chinese?? | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | You don't have to speak it - just set keymap to it and type - you get clearly broken output - rather than glyphs | 02:16 |
| javispedro | is ' (tilde) dead key + a (a) enough? | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | nvm really - I was just wondering as it's a fault on all linux flashes for a couple of years now. | 02:17 |
| javispedro | (produces á) | 02:17 |
| javispedro | i don't want to mess with the input system. | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Fair enough :) | 02:17 |
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| javispedro | Enter text here: á | 02:18 |
| javispedro | This is how flash stores it: e1 | 02:18 |
| javispedro | This is how the server receives it: C3 A1 | 02:18 |
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| javispedro | sounds good. | 02:19 |
| javispedro | actually though. | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | it works for a small subset of european languages | 02:20 |
| javispedro | I did patch microB for a similar issue (but with _all_ text fields) | 02:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'The input of special characters (like German umlauts öäü ÖÄÜ ß) in a flash-based text input field still doesn't work.' | 02:20 |
| javispedro | and i was thinking that maybe flash does receive its keypresses through microb-eal? | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | (paste works - it's a typing thing) | 02:21 |
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| javispedro | I have german ümlaute too | 02:21 |
| javispedro | ä, Flash stores it as: e4, Server receives C3 A4. | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm - I wonder if they fixed it for this version. | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Still broken on the latest x86 | 02:22 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, this version is as old as it gets. | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Oops. | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | It may be pre-breakage. | 02:22 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, if you're new to maemo, the input system is really a beast. | 02:22 |
| javispedro | so maybe they're using maemo-specific code never broken in the first place | 02:23 |
| javispedro | (who knows) | 02:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | I am - I need to start reading some docs. | 02:23 |
| javispedro | it handles lots of things, like sticky keys, at the gtk level | 02:23 |
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| * javispedro is triying to understand why every program save for dosbox gets the input focus correctly in fremantle | 02:25 | |
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| lcuk | fuuuuuuuuuk | 02:34 |
| lcuk | that was strange | 02:34 |
| lcuk | i hate the console | 02:34 |
| sivang | javispedro: what kind of doctor ? | 02:35 |
| javispedro | Parapsychology. | 02:36 |
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| javispedro | joking of course, I'm not a doctor :) | 02:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | So you're not really DrNokSnes Pedro? | 02:38 |
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| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, behold! take care or my evil minions will take care of you !! :P | 02:39 |
| * qwerty12_N810 gulps | 02:41 | |
| javispedro | but must admit Dr. Nok Snes Pedro sounds good enough, I may take that name if I ever conquer a country and become a super villain. | 02:41 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | ...and adopt the Nokia "pedo" bootsplash as your flag? :) | 02:42 |
| timeless_mbp | hand stealing baby? | 02:42 |
| javispedro | naa, I have enough Inkscape abilities myself. Proof is in the drnoksnes banner ;) | 02:43 |
| * javispedro remembers it does not look good in fremantle, so he'll have to change it... unfortunately. | 02:44 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=253826&postcount=87 | 02:44 |
| timeless_mbp | nice | 02:45 |
| VDVsx | ~burn mosquito's | 02:45 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over mosquito's, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 02:45 | |
| javispedro | mosquitoes. know well your enemy first. | 02:45 |
| javispedro | then stab him with the proper tool! | 02:46 |
| javispedro | I personally prefer A4-sized folders. | 02:46 |
| VDVsx | moving inside is also a option :P | 02:47 |
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| VDVsx | too hot in here, bahh | 02:48 |
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| javispedro | ah, outside. then you have to print a large copy of the pedo nokia logo and hang it somewhere. | 02:48 |
| javispedro | I can assure you that all your mosquito problems will disappear. | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Staying indoors with the AC is how you defeat mosquitos. | 02:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | That, or DEET. | 02:48 |
| javispedro | unless your local police prison does not have proper mosquito plague control, of course ;) | 02:49 |
| VDVsx | lolol | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Plate armour, with duct-tape over the seams. | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just as long as it's not horse flys. | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/flys/flies/ | 02:50 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Just as long as it's not horse flies. | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mosquitos are irritating, but horse flies freaking HURT. | 02:50 |
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| javispedro | ah, damn, Tabanoidea Tabanidae | 02:51 |
| qwerty12_N810 | This is the point where I do a Nelson Muntz "Ha Ha!" to those of you living in places where the sun actually comes out | 02:52 |
| javispedro | ~burn the sun | 02:53 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over the sun, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 02:53 | |
| javispedro | It always impresses me when people come here actively looking for it. | 02:53 |
| * VDVsx loves sunny places | 02:54 | |
| VDVsx | bed time | 02:55 |
| VDVsx | g'nite folks ;) | 02:55 |
| * SpeedEvil has a forecast of a weeks solid overcast. And I'm not expecting it to be sunny after. | 02:55 | |
| javispedro | gnite | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | night. | 02:55 |
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| zerojayPC | What's the app for mime types in Maemo? | 02:58 |
| zerojayPC | Allows you to change associations? | 02:58 |
| zerojayPC | Never mind. | 02:58 |
| wazd | http://s43.radikal.ru/i099/0908/ee/153c3d13246a.jpg | 02:59 |
| angasule | javispedro: where is here? | 02:59 |
| javispedro | Spain. | 03:00 |
| javispedro | wazd, lmao :) | 03:00 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: Take it away! Take it away! | 03:00 |
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| lcuk | that looks shopped | 03:03 |
| wazd | I need to make one more page, but I'm totally dry :( | 03:03 |
| wazd | "not being killed" is a great motivation though :D | 03:03 |
| lcuk | mmm that sounds like a good start | 03:04 |
| lcuk | also you could add "mind the doors" | 03:04 |
| Proteous | mind your head | 03:05 |
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| Proteous | mind the gap | 03:05 |
| javispedro | "Take my hand, my son, and we will conquer the galaxy together, like father and son" | 03:05 |
| radic | qwerty12_N810: can I use a kernel from kernel.org for the N800? | 03:08 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I would presume you would not be able to... | 03:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | linux-omap? | 03:09 |
| javispedro | radic, don't unless you're a kernel hacker. | 03:09 |
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| javispedro | so, someone is already spamming all youtube videos with their nokia n 900 dot org domain, trying to make a profit from what he bought at nearly 100,000$ from ebay? | 03:59 |
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| * zerojayPC sighs. | 04:01 | |
| zerojayPC | I knew it would come and fast. | 04:01 |
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| GAN8001 | I like the Italian cellular blog that is mirroring all of the NokiaConversations N900 videos. | 04:03 |
| javispedro | yeah | 04:04 |
| javispedro | even paying for the first spot | 04:04 |
| javispedro | (it's now first search result on youtube, under that paid ads section) | 04:05 |
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| lcuk | heh | 04:13 |
| lcuk | can anyone suss the flaw in this logic | 04:13 |
| lcuk | s[strlen(s) - 1] = '\0'; | 04:13 |
| lcuk | z4chh, tsk tsk | 04:13 |
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| javispedro | Left$(s, Len(s) - 1) ? ;) | 04:15 |
| * lcuk cowers | 04:15 | |
| lcuk | what does the line of code appear to want to do | 04:16 |
| javispedro | Left(s$, Len(s$) - 1) I think | 04:16 |
| javispedro | (yes, my mind was corrupted by BASIC when I was young :P ) | 04:16 |
| lcuk | thats ok | 04:17 |
| lcuk | its trying to null terminate a string thats just been read from file | 04:17 |
| javispedro | what's the problem? | 04:17 |
| javispedro | aaa | 04:17 |
| lcuk | in c a string will continue until it reaches a null | 04:17 |
| javispedro | yeah, then you have a problem :) | 04:17 |
| javispedro | since you're discarding the last char. | 04:17 |
| ShadowJK | that basic looks familoar, and I remember writing lines just like that | 04:18 |
| lcuk | not really | 04:18 |
| ShadowJK | but I can't "think" in it anymore... | 04:18 |
| wazd | funny thing. I'm already in the autumn, and US is till in the summer :) | 04:18 |
| lcuk | what result would strlen return if the string never had a NULL terminator | 04:18 |
| javispedro | implementation defined? so it would launch a good game of emacs tetris like older gccs used to do ;) | 04:19 |
| ShadowJK | it runs through memory unitl it finds a NULL or until the program gets a segfault | 04:19 |
| lcuk | :D | 04:19 |
| lcuk | which is the flaw | 04:19 |
| lcuk | the memory is allocated as a 256byte array | 04:19 |
| lcuk | uninitialized the next nearest null could be anywhere | 04:20 |
| * lcuk files it as a bug for z4chh :) | 04:20 | |
| ShadowJK | you're approaching it from the wrong angle | 04:20 |
| ShadowJK | oh, not your code? | 04:20 |
| sp3000 | well, think of it positively | 04:21 |
| lcuk | no, it just jumped out at me whilst i was looking | 04:21 |
| sp3000 | you run it enough times, eventually it'll be really close | 04:21 |
| lcuk | sp3000, positively its not happened yet | 04:21 |
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| ShadowJK | if that code is supposed to ensure null termination, then it's incorrect | 04:21 |
| lcuk | its an obscure point not in the normal flow | 04:22 |
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| lcuk | but a valuable lesson to teach :) | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | but maybe it's supposed to cut away the last char | 04:22 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, all c strings must be null terminated | 04:22 |
| ShadowJK | yes, but that doesn't mean stuff you pass to str* necessarily are proper c strings ;) | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | I'd look at how the string is read in in the first place | 04:23 |
| javispedro | well. the current implementation of strlen does need proper C strings ;) | 04:23 |
| lcuk | how would strlen know otherwise | 04:23 |
| lcuk | it is pointed at a block of memory | 04:23 |
| lcuk | it doesnt know anything about its allocation limits | 04:24 |
| lcuk | or the stuff of the user | 04:24 |
| lcuk | it is asked to merely run until null | 04:24 |
| sp3000 | sounds like a good workout | 04:24 |
| lcuk | heh | 04:25 |
| ShadowJK | iirc there's a x86 opcode that does strlen ;p | 04:25 |
| javispedro | rep scas, but it maybe a bit old | 04:26 |
| javispedro | either way that requires null-terminated too (well, in fact, any-char terminated ;) ) | 04:26 |
| lcuk | javispedro, mm | 04:27 |
| lcuk | so you can send an x86 opcode scouting for spaces or something? | 04:27 |
| javispedro | that searches for a caracter | 04:28 |
| javispedro | so I guess yes | 04:28 |
| lcuk | cool | 04:28 |
| javispedro | there were even instructions for copying full strings, at least in the 16 bits days | 04:31 |
| javispedro | that's what you get with CISC :) | 04:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Man, this is some sharp cheddar. | 04:35 |
| * GeneralAntilles cut his tongue. | 04:35 | |
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| javispedro | wazd, plan to do any more x900 mockups soon? | 04:38 |
| javispedro | I already saw your e900 mockup on the wild :) | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, did you see the Mer spread? | 04:38 |
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| javispedro | nope, not yet | 04:39 |
| javispedro | where? | 04:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/mer-ui-scalability/ | 04:39 |
| javispedro | ah, _that_ :) | 04:40 |
| javispedro | yeah, hope to see my Mer Tamagotchi soon :) | 04:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meragatchi | 04:42 |
| javispedro | if you don't contribute to the project it gets mad at you :) | 04:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bugs are piles of shit. | 04:42 |
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| javispedro | and the final stage is Operating System Market Domination :D | 04:43 |
| javispedro | (Mobile) | 04:43 |
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| wazd | javispedro: If I'll not get killed within 12 hours - yep :D | 04:44 |
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| * GeneralAntilles air drops wazd an AK-47 or three. | 04:45 | |
| javispedro | killed? or misteriously "disapperead" after news about black helicopters and ninjas in your neighborhood? | 04:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia ninjas wear blue. | 04:45 |
| ShadowJK | did that e900 mockup have | on the keyboard? | 04:46 |
| javispedro | wazd, start with the n910 mockup, conservative approach: n900 mostly, no keyboard | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/nokia-e900/ | 04:46 |
| javispedro | then, when they're all drooling at you, | 04:46 |
| javispedro | start with the crazier innovative ones :) | 04:46 |
| javispedro | btw, typo: "Carl _C_eiss". | 04:47 |
| wazd | javispedro: I've missed "Y" key, what Ceiss are you talking bout :D | 04:49 |
| javispedro | you say it has got "Carl Ceiss" lens. | 04:49 |
| javispedro | so either you mean it is a cheap imitation of a Carl Zeiss lens, or it's a typo ;) | 04:50 |
| * wazd will never mock something up at night :) | 04:50 | |
| wazd | I think I'll study basic course of 3DS Max + VRay and make something real :) | 04:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ew | 04:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't use 3DS | 04:51 |
| ShadowJK | javispedro: gotta add something too after removing keyboard | 04:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you've got to use commercial, use Cinema 4D | 04:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | But Blender or Wings would be better. | 04:51 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: I can use anything cause I'm a noob :) | 04:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really like Cinema 4D | 04:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a good one. | 04:52 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: Isn't it for FX only? | 04:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's for everything. | 04:52 |
| ShadowJK | the space used for keyboard+mechanism could be used for a bigger battery, or not used for slimmer :) | 04:52 |
| javispedro | slimmer is our man. | 04:53 |
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| javispedro | (rather, the feature all those youtube believers want to see) | 04:53 |
| ShadowJK | but it's not really classical nokia unless it also adds some feature n900 doesn't have | 04:53 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: well, I'll try it then, thx :) | 04:53 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: is it vRay compatible? :) | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not sure | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I believe so. | 04:54 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: well, can it use external tracer? | 04:54 |
| ShadowJK | Maybe add a 3 axis compass :-) | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's built-in tracer is really nice. | 04:54 |
| ShadowJK | or miniprojector | 04:55 |
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| ShadowJK | Remember, you can't put all the killer features on one device, that would make it too easy on the consumer and the consumer's nerves. If you haven't got him in despair trying to choose between superfeature X and superfeature Y, you've failed. | 04:57 |
| ShadowJK | ;) | 04:57 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: I was thinking bout coffee machine :) | 04:58 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 04:58 |
| ShadowJK | Well, Nokia did invest/research heavily into home automation in the past :) | 04:58 |
| javispedro | Portable climatizator would be good enough for me. | 04:59 |
| ShadowJK | builtin razormachine | 04:59 |
| javispedro | *AC. | 04:59 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes peltiers diddn't suck so hard. | 04:59 | |
| ShadowJK | that already exist in a chinese NCKLA clone, iirc | 04:59 |
| ShadowJK | wazd: oh, lipidophobic (sp?) screen! | 05:00 |
| ShadowJK | (antismudge) | 05:00 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: well, that's not so hard to draw :D | 05:01 |
| ShadowJK | it almost makes sense too, without keys you'll be molesting the wscreen alot more | 05:01 |
| javispedro | let's just compromise on all that nokia foldable, nanoskin-based, hidrophobic, oled, and solar powered prototype. | 05:03 |
| javispedro | should be easy enough to implement. | 05:03 |
| javispedro | in a few months timeframe. | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, your next mockup should just be a brain implant. | 05:03 |
| javispedro | that gives a whole new meaning to exploding LiIon batteries. | 05:03 |
| disco_stu | anyone knows wich will be the prize of n900 ? | 05:04 |
| ShadowJK | stretchable screen would be cool. stretch it to 5" for surfing, 7" for viewin movies, down to 3" in your pocket | 05:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | damn | 05:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | abiword would be awesome if they added cups support to it | 05:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | and let you print straight from the tablet | 05:04 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: I'd better do something teasing | 05:05 |
| MaceN8x0 | i wonder if i can ask someone to add it somewhere :) | 05:05 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: that looks real | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | disco_stu, $500 Euros. | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Varies by locale. | 05:05 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: there are zillions of designers that waste theitr time on something useless and stupid :) | 05:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/$/€/ | 05:05 |
| javispedro | 500 Eurodollars ;) | 05:05 |
| ShadowJK | disco_stu: they've quoted a MSRP excl taxes and subsidiez of 500Eur. For comparison, the MsRP of iphone 3gs 32g and samsung omniahd is 150E higher than that | 05:05 |
| wazd | ShadowJK: I'd rather waste my time on useless, stupid but fun thing :) | 05:05 |
| javispedro | ~ping | 05:06 |
| infobot | ~pong | 05:06 |
| disco_stu | GeneralAntilles, damn i cant afford one ! | 05:06 |
| disco_stu | :( | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | disco_stu, give it 6 months and it'll be down under €400. | 05:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Another 4 and it'll be under €300. | 05:06 |
| wazd | or buy with contract | 05:06 |
| javispedro | contract is not cheaper for everyone. | 05:07 |
| ShadowJK | wazd: oh add the handcrank then :) | 05:07 |
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| ShadowJK | (for charging) | 05:08 |
| ShadowJK | it's eco-friendly! | 05:08 |
| ShadowJK | it can pop out instead of keyboard | 05:09 |
| disco_stu | i didnt know it was phone too | 05:10 |
| disco_stu | that makes things worse | 05:10 |
| disco_stu | because i live in nowhereland | 05:10 |
| javispedro | finally someone with some sense :) | 05:10 |
| ShadowJK | it still has wlan.. | 05:10 |
| disco_stu | and the stupid telcos here will make it impossible to afford | 05:11 |
| javispedro | ++ | 05:11 |
| ShadowJK | you didnt buy the previous tablets from a telco, did you? | 05:12 |
| disco_stu | hell no | 05:12 |
| ShadowJK | mine offered it :) | 05:12 |
| javispedro | maybe because your telco actually cares about you. | 05:12 |
| javispedro | mine doesn't. | 05:12 |
| javispedro | mine wants me to die. | 05:12 |
| disco_stu | mine too | 05:12 |
| ShadowJK | I got it elsewhere cheaper anyway | 05:12 |
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| javispedro | they'd actually charge me for turning on the phone if the law allowed them. | 05:13 |
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| ShadowJK | Nokia's all other N and E-series devices work without a sim card, I doubt N900 would start requiring one | 05:14 |
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| javispedro | yeah, but I have this feeling of wasting money then. | 05:14 |
| ShadowJK | obviously without you'd be limited to voip calls over wlan | 05:14 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 05:14 |
| ShadowJK | I recently bought new phone, and now I just *have* to buy n900. That sure feels like a waste too :) | 05:15 |
| * javispedro hates, hates his carrier, and the only reason he uses it is because _all_ his family uses it, because same-carrier calls are the only affordable ones. | 05:16 | |
| disco_stu | javispedro, where you live in ? to me happens the same thing.. | 05:16 |
| javispedro | spain. | 05:16 |
| * ShadowJK averages 5 minutes of calls per month and 50 gigabytes of data. My carrier would probably hate me if they had the competence to figure it out | 05:17 | |
| disco_stu | javispedro, i thought i was the only one with such an horrible carrier | 05:17 |
| javispedro | as I was saying on tmo, there was a ranking done between first-world countries' "mobile communications" companies. | 05:17 |
| disco_stu | i cant even afford a dataplan | 05:17 |
| javispedro | Spain ranked third worst. | 05:17 |
| SpeedEvil | UK isn't too bad thankfully. | 05:17 |
| javispedro | The US ranked first of second iirc btw | 05:18 |
| javispedro | s/of/or/ | 05:18 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: The US ranked first or second iirc btw | 05:18 |
| ShadowJK | I've picked up a few special deals over the years. Luckily they've renewed so far | 05:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Is that counting mobile? Or fixed line only? | 05:18 |
| javispedro | mobile iirc. | 05:18 |
| ShadowJK | 2M/s data (I live outside coverage anyway, edge speed for me) for 10E/month, and 5 parallell sim cards 3 days before they stopped selling it (but they honor existing agreements) | 05:19 |
| ShadowJK | so I could theoretically have 5 phones on the same number and pull 2M/sec data on them simultaneously | 05:20 |
| ShadowJK | not that there's anyplace with that much total capacity.. | 05:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm currently on GPRS. | 05:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I pay 1 pound per day I use more than 137K | 05:22 |
| ShadowJK | heck, if I try download something with my edge modem, and get a podcast on my phone at the same time, speed drops to half :) | 05:22 |
| SpeedEvil | And nothing on other days. | 05:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Which is good - as I'm not using it most days. | 05:23 |
| ShadowJK | so I guess that means their backbone to where I live is about 256kbit/s | 05:23 |
| SpeedEvil | (and I can buy 5 days for half thaT) | 05:23 |
| ShadowJK | My "best" connection is wimax :( | 05:23 |
| javispedro | fortunately, the stupid oligopoly of carriers is losing users like if there's no tomorrow | 05:24 |
| javispedro | I hope one day I can join the escapes. | 05:24 |
| * SpeedEvil is currently fighting _annoying_ RFI on his DSL. | 05:24 | |
| ShadowJK | it goes down often enough that I setup my router to automatically fallover to gprs | 05:24 |
| SpeedEvil | It drops out half an hour a day at midnightish. | 05:24 |
| SpeedEvil | This causes the DSLAM to regard my line as bad - and throttle me to under 512K - though the line does 2M the other 23.5 hours. :/ | 05:25 |
| javispedro | well, gnite all | 05:25 |
| SpeedEvil | night | 05:25 |
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| ShadowJK | so you need a reset after midnight? | 05:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Without a universal service obligation of some form - you can't have carriers being simply dumb pipes contending on price with no penalty for switching. | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Or you get providers cherry picking nice spots and not leaving any revenue to push the network out to the remoter spots | 05:26 |
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| newbie002 | is it atm? | 05:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 05:37 |
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| newbie002 | sorry arm | 05:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 05:37 |
| newbie002 | thanks! | 05:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, Debian trolls are interesting. | 05:59 |
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| samad_ | hello | 06:46 |
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| samad_ | could anybody help me how to enable vibration of N810 ? | 06:49 |
| samad_ | also N900 | 06:49 |
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| GAN800 | samad_, no vibra in N810. | 06:53 |
| GAN800 | The docs should cover the N900. | 06:53 |
| samad_ | which docs you says ? | 06:54 |
| samad_ | i have no device so i can't tested | 06:55 |
| GAN800 | Somewhere on maemo.org. Google should probably turn it up. I'm on a tablet and too lazy to dig it up. | 06:55 |
| GAN800 | konttori, got a link to the vibra api docs handy? | 06:55 |
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| konttori | umm... http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/mce-dev/dbus-names_8h.html | 06:56 |
| konttori | but, if you want proper control, you just need to write the values directly to vibra. | 06:56 |
| samad_ | i have written the following code but not tested. Could plz advice me what is wrong? | 06:56 |
| samad_ | const gchar *pattern_name = "1;3;0;0;1000;1000;180"; | 06:56 |
| samad_ | DBusConnection* connection = dbus_bus_get(DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM, NULL); | 06:56 |
| samad_ | DBusMessage *msg; | 06:56 |
| samad_ | msg = dbus_message_new_method_call(MCE_SERVICE, | 06:56 |
| samad_ | MCE_REQUEST_PATH, | 06:56 |
| samad_ | MCE_REQUEST_IF, | 06:56 |
| samad_ | MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR); | 06:56 |
| samad_ | 06:56 | |
| samad_ | dbus_message_append_args(msg, | 06:56 |
| samad_ | DBUS_TYPE_STRING, &pattern_name, | 06:56 |
| samad_ | DBUS_TYPE_INVALID); | 06:56 |
| samad_ | dbus_connection_send(connection, msg, NULL); | 06:57 |
| samad_ | dbus_message_unref(msg); | 06:57 |
| samad_ | dbus_connection_flush(connection); | 06:57 |
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| johnx | allo | 07:09 |
| johnx | morning all | 07:09 |
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| RST38h | ehlo all | 07:41 |
| RST38h | heya johnx | 07:41 |
| johnx | greetings RST38h | 07:41 |
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| RST38h | rm-559 found on the fcc site | 07:45 |
| RST38h | apparently s60e5 device with 32MB flash | 07:45 |
| RST38h | GB | 07:46 |
| johnx | huh, must have gotten a deal on those 32GB chips | 07:47 |
| RST38h | Or it will sell for another $700 | 07:48 |
| RST38h | the device footprint looks pretty small too | 07:48 |
| johnx | well so is the N900 (still surprised they ran with that name. wonder if the community had any influence...), but it's pretty deep | 07:49 |
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| * johnx writes recursive functions in bash, makes a mockery of good programing practices | 07:52 | |
| konttori | GAN800: did that API ref help | 07:52 |
| GAN800 | konttori, dunno, was for samad_. | 07:53 |
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| konttori | samad_: have you tried the same with just dbus-send on command line? | 07:55 |
| konttori | GAN800: ok, thanks | 07:55 |
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| samad__ | konttori, i am trying as u says | 07:55 |
| samad__ | how i will sure it works or not bcoz i have no device | 07:56 |
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| konttori | samad__: oh, I would recomend waiting until you get one. | 07:57 |
| samad__ | ohh thanks | 07:57 |
| samad__ | waiting........ | 07:58 |
| johnx | crap...does bash have a concept of scoped variables? | 07:58 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, local? | 07:59 |
| johnx | yeah | 08:00 |
| johnx | though, nm, I think I don't really need them | 08:00 |
| konttori | samad__: you need to define that pattern in the /etc/mce/mce.ini file | 08:00 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, i mean, 'local' keyword | 08:01 |
| konttori | and give it a name in there | 08:01 |
| johnx | ah! :) | 08:01 |
| konttori | and then use that name in the dbus method | 08:01 |
| konttori | Like: | 08:01 |
| konttori | PatternMyMattern=1;3;0;0;0;0;1000;0;0;0;180 | 08:01 |
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| samad__ | yes i have used like following | 08:02 |
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| samad__ | const gchar *pattern_name = "1;3;0;0;1000;1000;180"; | 08:03 |
| samad__ | DBusConnection* connection = dbus_bus_get(DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM, NULL); | 08:03 |
| samad__ | DBusMessage *msg; | 08:03 |
| samad__ | msg = dbus_message_new_method_call(MCE_SERVICE, | 08:03 |
| samad__ | MCE_REQUEST_PATH, | 08:03 |
| samad__ | MCE_REQUEST_IF, | 08:03 |
| samad__ | MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR); | 08:03 |
| samad__ | 08:03 | |
| samad__ | dbus_message_append_args(msg, | 08:03 |
| samad__ | DBUS_TYPE_STRING, &pattern_name, | 08:03 |
| samad__ | DBUS_TYPE_INVALID); | 08:03 |
| samad__ | dbus_connection_send(connection, msg, NULL); | 08:03 |
| samad__ | dbus_message_unref(msg); | 08:03 |
| samad__ | dbus_connection_flush(connection); | 08:03 |
| samad__ | oo ic i have got ur point | 08:04 |
| samad__ | konttori i have got ur point now trying | 08:05 |
| samad__ | thanks | 08:05 |
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| Myrtti | samad__: pastebin.com, ever heard of it? | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> const gchar *pattern_name = "1;3;0;0;1000;1000;180"; | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> IDBusConnection* connection = dbus_bus_get(DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM, NULL); | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> IDBusMessage *msg; | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> I MCE_REQUEST_PATH, | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> I MCE_REQUEST_IF, | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> Imsg = dbus_message_new_method_call(MCE_SERVICE, | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> I MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR); | 08:15 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> I | 08:16 |
| Myrtti | Proteous: oh christ | 08:16 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> Idbus_message_append_args(msg, | 08:16 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> IIIIIIIDBUS_TYPE_STRING, &pattern_name, | 08:16 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> I IIIIIDBUS_TYPE_INVALID); | 08:16 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> Idbus_connection_send(connection, msg, NULL); | 08:16 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> Idbus_message_unref(msg); | 08:16 |
| Proteous | 22:03 < samad__> Idbus_connection_flush(connection); | 08:16 |
| Proteous | pastebin? What's that? | 08:16 |
| Proteous | hehe | 08:16 |
| Proteous | sorry | 08:16 |
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| samad__ | Proteous, I want to enable vibration of N900 | 08:17 |
| Proteous | kinky | 08:17 |
| Myrtti | I want to enable brain | 08:17 |
| Proteous | INCLUDE <brain.io> | 08:17 |
| Myrtti | hasn't worked previously, why would it now | 08:18 |
| Proteous | heh | 08:18 |
| * Myrtti facepalms | 08:18 | |
| samad__ | hehehe.... | 08:18 |
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| Myrtti | samad__: seriously, pastebin.com | 08:18 |
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| RST38h | have to initialize brain properly | 08:19 |
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| slonopotamus | init_brain(&head); | 08:20 |
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| johnx | brain is overrated. I've been getting by with a huge lookup table for ~10+ years | 08:21 |
| slonopotamus | warning, passing NULL enables brains in all heads | 08:22 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, as that hash uses weakrefs, it's only usable for often-used data | 08:22 |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: did you mean: init_brain \&head; | 08:23 |
| johnx | oh, mine works pretty well for most stuff. my headspace just acts as a local cache of google | 08:23 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i meant what i said | 08:24 |
| Luke-Jr | no | 08:24 |
| Luke-Jr | you meant: init_brain \$head; | 08:24 |
| Luke-Jr | :þ | 08:24 |
| slonopotamus | u, i said what i meant | 08:24 |
| slonopotamus | s/u/k/ | 08:25 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: k, i said what i meant | 08:25 |
| Luke-Jr | you said it in a foreign language. | 08:25 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, http://translate.google.com ? | 08:25 |
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| Luke-Jr | I wrote a program. It's been running flawlessly for 2 weeks. Total CPU time usage is 23 seconds. Total memory mapped 248 KB | 08:26 |
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| Luke-Jr | yay efficiency | 08:27 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, that asound.conf from tablet-sound is bad. alsamixer shows only PCM with it, but if you do alsamixer -c 0, it shown many more controls | 08:27 |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: it shouldn't be installing asound.conf anyhow | 08:27 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, alsa can't autodetect dsp, so at least smth from it is required | 08:28 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: I want to write an OS from the ground up. | 08:28 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, why? there are plenty of them already | 08:28 |
| Luke-Jr | well, reusing Linux for kernel bits as much as possible | 08:28 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: they all suck | 08:28 |
| Luke-Jr | security policy and efficiency | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | users will be globally unique | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | code will execute with its programmer's permissions per default | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | (or a dummy sub-account at all) | 08:29 |
| Luke-Jr | s/at all/ | 08:29 |
| johnx | "users will be globably unique"? hmm? | 08:30 |
| johnx | sounds like you want to be part of OpenID | 08:30 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: there will be a single "johnx" with unlimited sub-accounts | 08:30 |
| Luke-Jr | OpenID sucks if it is what I think it is | 08:30 |
| Luke-Jr | was that the one that basically assumes you're using a browser? | 08:31 |
| slonopotamus | yep | 08:31 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: I mean if you write a program, you need to sign it to run it and then it runs with that key's permissions | 08:31 |
| johnx | so that wasn't the one you could use as a PAM backend? | 08:31 |
| Luke-Jr | a binary signed by johnx will NEVER have access to luke's files, unless Luke manually approves it | 08:32 |
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| johnx | that's an interesting idea | 08:32 |
| Luke-Jr | normal file access will be via standard OS file dialogs, which are per default approved to open their files and return the FD | 08:32 |
| johnx | I was actually thinking about sandboxing on linux the other day, with unison and chroots | 08:32 |
| Luke-Jr | so johnx's binary can call a function written by luke, and THAT can access luke's files and return a FD to johnx's code | 08:33 |
| johnx | kind of developer focused, rather than user focused, huh? | 08:33 |
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| Luke-Jr | johnx: what's the difference, really? ;) | 08:34 |
| Luke-Jr | a developer is just a user that can automate things | 08:34 |
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| RST38h | that is power user =) | 08:34 |
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| johnx | well, the use-cases are totally different | 08:34 |
| johnx | and so is the appeal | 08:34 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: this actually has a sortof limited implementation in the wild for 20+ years | 08:34 |
| johnx | ok | 08:35 |
| johnx | there was a limited implementation of COBOL in the wild for longer | 08:35 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: if your "normal" everyday file manipulation is via open/save dialogs, the user will not just "get used to" clicking Approve on unexpected authorization requests | 08:35 |
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| Luke-Jr | the key is permission seperation at the function level instead of program level | 08:36 |
| johnx | wasn't that MS' argument about their "this app requires approval" dialog | 08:36 |
| johnx | forgot what it was called | 08:36 |
| Luke-Jr | and focussing the security audit on those few functions with user trust | 08:36 |
| johnx | users will get used to *anything* given 3 repititions | 08:36 |
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| Luke-Jr | johnx: the point is you wouldn't normally see the approval request, because all access would be via the few authorized functions | 08:37 |
| johnx | it's a neat idea | 08:37 |
| Luke-Jr | in fact, perhaps even auto-reject any requests unless they're a power user and enable it ;P | 08:37 |
| johnx | though it essentially breaks compatibility with any existing code, doesn't it? | 08:37 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: probably | 08:38 |
| Luke-Jr | compatibility layers might be made | 08:38 |
| Luke-Jr | isolate the legacy apps to a directory of their own ;) | 08:38 |
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| johnx | in exactly the way I was thinking :) | 08:38 |
| Luke-Jr | basically run unsigned bins with a SHA1 key or such | 08:39 |
| Luke-Jr | so they have their own user | 08:39 |
| johnx | eh | 08:39 |
| Luke-Jr | might even want to auto-generate hybrid multi-user combination users... | 08:39 |
| Luke-Jr | so if I run johnx's app, it can create a settings file owned by johnx+luke | 08:40 |
| Luke-Jr | which can only be used by johnx's apps run by luke | 08:40 |
| johnx | how about this: use unison to combine a read-only bind mount of the mounted filesystems with a r/w tmpfs, then chroot the app into that directory, and track what files are created and prompt the user to accept changes to any directory the program isn't "supposed" to be accessing | 08:40 |
| johnx | so my "legacy" config for firefox would say it should have access to "firefox-downloads/" and ".firefox/". If it tried to write somewhere else it would either prompt the user to allow or just get killed | 08:41 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: that would have the whole developer-user mindset problem | 08:42 |
| Luke-Jr | and the "user gets used to clicking Approve" | 08:42 |
| johnx | so deny by default and crash the program | 08:43 |
| johnx | you'd have to get some developer buy-in even to make their code work in "legacy" mode anyways... | 08:43 |
| johnx | or carry a huge patch set | 08:43 |
| Luke-Jr | hmm | 08:43 |
| Luke-Jr | not necessarily | 08:44 |
| Luke-Jr | Qt might get by with simply authorizing its dialog funcs | 08:44 |
| Luke-Jr | the bigger change will be dropping X11 | 08:44 |
| RST38h | Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..... http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/26a7/index.htm | 08:44 |
| Luke-Jr | that crap is so inefficient.. | 08:44 |
| johnx | yeah, assuming no one ever reads or writes except through a file open/save dialog | 08:45 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: that and config files, which is covered by giving the app its own dir | 08:45 |
| Luke-Jr | so to go outside of its "chroot jail", it would need to use dialog | 08:46 |
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| johnx | the neater thing would be to just forcibly trick them into writing into their own directory with a chroot | 08:48 |
| johnx | and only the open/save would be able to access the rest of the fs | 08:48 |
| Luke-Jr | … | 08:49 |
| Luke-Jr | I just said that? :þ | 08:49 |
| johnx | well, you were saying authorization to write outside their chroot, I thought you mean that a write to /home/luke/documents/my-doc.odt.sav would fail instead of succeeding after a redirect to /home/luke/.my-prog/home/luke/documents/my-doc.odt.sav | 08:50 |
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| Luke-Jr | well, if you just transparently redirect, you have major usability issues | 08:51 |
| Luke-Jr | $HOME could be an app config dir | 08:51 |
| johnx | you have major usability issues either way | 08:52 |
| Luke-Jr | true | 08:52 |
| johnx | you get to pick how you break things :> | 08:52 |
| Luke-Jr | I'm not sure what app, if any, I'd really want to run legacy | 08:52 |
| johnx | in fact prompt the user: "Break things with Plan A or Plan B?" :D | 08:52 |
| Luke-Jr | almost every app for linux is bloated | 08:52 |
| johnx | yes, you could sit alone at a prompt with just the apps you write by yourself | 08:53 |
| Luke-Jr | yeah | 08:53 |
| Luke-Jr | I wish I had the time to do all this XD | 08:53 |
| Luke-Jr | I could make a fortune | 08:53 |
| johnx | that would imply convincing someone to pay money for breaking all their apps | 08:53 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: if I wrote all the apps, I mean | 08:53 |
| Luke-Jr | and use a GPL-like license ;) | 08:54 |
| Luke-Jr | eg, at no cost if you share your code, but you can buy open-source-with-copyright license | 08:54 |
| Luke-Jr | in increments of 5 years of copyright enforcement | 08:54 |
| johnx | dual licensed is what you're looking for | 08:54 |
| * Luke-Jr wonders if that would be enforcable | 08:54 | |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: no, I would under no conditions allow proprietary | 08:55 |
| Luke-Jr | I would sell 5 years of enforcing copyright on your code, while distributing code with your product that nobody was allowed to redistribute. | 08:55 |
| Luke-Jr | so after that 5 years, anyone who had bought your product was free to share it | 08:55 |
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| johnx | so basically make linking against your libc a) required and b) impossible to do while making your code proprietary ? | 08:56 |
| Luke-Jr | and of course, since I don't license the platform to closed-source products, they would be unable to assert ANY copyright at all since they themselves are in violation of mine ;p | 08:56 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: well, I'd sell a license for "lifetime" copyright enforcement, so effectively proprietary until the creator dies | 08:57 |
| johnx | I don't think you'd need to worry about proprietary software in the same way the GNU/Hurd guys don't | 08:57 |
| Luke-Jr | heh | 08:58 |
| Luke-Jr | like I said, we've gone off on a "Luke has infinite time" tangent | 08:58 |
| johnx | oh, and make sure you throw in a vector-based UI with a News-like windowing system | 08:58 |
| Luke-Jr | huh? | 08:58 |
| johnx | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS | 08:59 |
| johnx | was talking to a guy who worked on this. he said X11 was a crappy rip-off | 08:59 |
| Luke-Jr | that does sound pretty nice | 09:00 |
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| Luke-Jr | but the interpretor overhead of Postscript might kill it | 09:01 |
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| Luke-Jr | might be practical to do some kind of common bytecode like Java, and make it simple for thinclients to process it into native bytecode | 09:06 |
| Luke-Jr | ala GCJ without a huge lib | 09:06 |
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| Luke-Jr | johnx: let's not forget making the ABI all network-independent ;) | 09:07 |
| Luke-Jr | so programX on my PC can simply call libraryY on your PC without having a local copy | 09:07 |
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| wazd_n800 | heya all | 09:08 |
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| Luke-Jr | wazd_n800: we are dreaming of perfect OS | 09:08 |
| johnx | heh, except, as the article said, AJAX is the new NeWS | 09:08 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: AJAX is difficult, though, not to mention inefficient | 09:09 |
| suihkulokki | ..like NeWS :) | 09:09 |
| Myrtti | AJAX is difficult, let's go shopping | 09:09 |
| wazd_n800 | Luke-Jr, well, I wish to dream bout dream, you know) | 09:09 |
| Luke-Jr | mainly because you need 3 or 4 representations of each element | 09:10 |
| Luke-Jr | in HTML, in ECMAScript, in XML, and whatever it really is on the server | 09:10 |
| johnx | difficult, inefficient, and very wide spread, with some decent support libraries = success :) | 09:11 |
| johnx | mornin' wazd_n800 | 09:11 |
| johnx | as we've seen from history: elegant design without wide acceptance leads to things going the way of the dinosaurs | 09:11 |
| Luke-Jr | yeah, I guess those libraries help | 09:12 |
| Luke-Jr | I don't really use them XD | 09:12 |
| wazd_n800 | johnx, dinosaurs != elegant design :D | 09:13 |
| Luke-Jr | wazd_n800: "the way of" != "is" | 09:13 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, haven't you ever gazed lovingly at the long slendar neck of a brontosaurus? what? uhm...me neither... | 09:13 |
| wazd_n800 | Hope I won't be dead today, have to see nokia world) | 09:19 |
| johnx | does anyone know a fairly straightforward way to recursively go through an apt source repository compiling a pkg and all of its dependencies that aren't already available as binary packages | 09:20 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, you don't want that in binary-based distro | 09:28 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, if the binaries don't exist, I'd like to build them: exactly once | 09:29 |
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| johnx | and I'd like to not have to setup a whole buildd or do it by hand | 09:29 |
| slonopotamus | how you get sources? | 09:29 |
| johnx | and apt-build appears to be approximately as useful as apt-get buildep $foo && apt-get -b source $foo | 09:29 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: you can do that with Gentoo just fine | 09:30 |
| johnx | Luke-Jr, how's gentoo coming on the N800? | 09:30 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, from an apt-src repo | 09:30 |
| Luke-Jr | FEATURES=buildpkg EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=-k | 09:30 |
| Luke-Jr | johnx: I don't have N800 | 09:30 |
| johnx | ah, then gentoo must not be available for my platform. better stick to mer I suppose | 09:31 |
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| Luke-Jr | johnx: slonopotamus has N800 | 09:31 |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: please tell me you put RESTRICT in the ebuild you made right? ☺ | 09:31 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, in closed-source one, yep | 09:32 |
| Luke-Jr | k | 09:32 |
| slonopotamus | RESTRICT="mirror installsources bindist" | 09:32 |
| johnx | I can't help but think this would be easier in scheme than bash | 09:32 |
| * Luke-Jr beats slonopotamus | 09:32 | |
| slonopotamus | osso-dsp-modules | 09:33 |
| * Luke-Jr mutters about deletion | 09:33 | |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: let me guess, your excuse is stlc4560 has nothing to do with n8x0? | 09:33 |
| Luke-Jr | argh, and you dropped cx3110x USE too | 09:34 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:34 |
| slonopotamus | yep, nothing to do | 09:34 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: … | 09:35 |
| johnx | mornin' Jaffa | 09:35 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, things became ambigious when you added 'nokia-osso-linux'. why use it for sound, but not for wifi? | 09:35 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: because wifi isn't part of nokia-osso-linux? | 09:36 |
| Luke-Jr | whereas the sound stuff is specific to that | 09:36 |
| *** slonopotamus changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ http://maemo.nokia.com | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> http://tinyurl.com/mvbcdy | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open - http://tinyurl.com/lumhbk | Maemo 5 will not be availalukble for 770/n8x0/iPhone" | 09:36 | |
| slonopotamus | err | 09:36 |
| Luke-Jr | … | 09:36 |
| slonopotamus | i did smth | 09:36 |
| Proteous | longest... topic... ever... | 09:36 |
| *** slonopotamus changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N900 and Maemo 5 announced @ http://maemo.nokia.com | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Maemo Summit 2009: Call for Content Now Open! -> http://tinyurl.com/mvbcdy | Maemo Summit 2009: Registration now open - http://tinyurl.com/lumhbk | Maemo 5 will not be available for 770/n8x0/iPhone" | 09:36 | |
| slonopotamus | fixed | 09:36 |
| Proteous | but I WANT MAEMO 5 ON MY IPHONE | 09:36 |
| Captain_Picard | Iphart | 09:37 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, it has to do as much as tablet-sound. | 09:37 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: no, cx3110x is valid on non-nokia Linux kernels | 09:37 |
| johnx | heh...uhm, looks like I have a little script to recursively build things out of an apt-repo now :) | 09:37 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, tablet-sound & friends too. | 09:37 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: not afaik | 09:37 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: mainline supports sound just fine w/o any of that | 09:38 |
| Captain_Picard | i still want mobile wine for maemo 5 :( | 09:38 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, yes afaik | 09:38 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: *why* would you use any of that? ;) | 09:38 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, dsp is not only about outputting sound | 09:38 |
| Captain_Picard | slonopotamus: i demmand Wine-support for maemo | 09:38 |
| johnx | Captain_Picard, work on qemu | 09:38 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: then what? | 09:38 |
| johnx | or buy it in one of those jugs with a handle | 09:38 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, dsp can decode stuff. better than main cpu | 09:39 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, that's up for debate actually | 09:39 |
| Captain_Picard | johnx: qemu dont support win x86 :( software | 09:39 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: USE=nokia-osso-linux should be specifically for "needed for Nokia Linux only" or "only works with Nokia Linux" ☺ | 09:40 |
| johnx | Captain_Picard, hmm? qemu-i386 can *run* windows | 09:40 |
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| Luke-Jr | Captain_Picard: qemu+wine does | 09:40 |
| johnx | unless I'm quite mistaken | 09:40 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, ... | 09:41 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, that doesn't fit what you did with alsa-plugins | 09:41 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: nobody could tell me wtf alsa-plugins maemo plugins did | 09:41 |
| Luke-Jr | so I had to guess | 09:42 |
| Luke-Jr | "needed for sound on Nokia Linux" | 09:42 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you didn't ask. it builds dsp module so alsa knows about dsp at all. | 09:42 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: non-Nokia Linux works fine without them | 09:42 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, it builds /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module*dsp* | 09:43 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: non-Nokia Linux works fine without them | 09:44 |
| slonopotamus | :/ | 09:44 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, non-nokia linux works fine without cx3110x? | 09:44 |
| slonopotamus | using stlc45xx? :) | 09:45 |
| Luke-Jr | not that I've seen | 09:45 |
| Luke-Jr | either way, cx3110x is usable with non-Nokia | 09:45 |
| Luke-Jr | what scenario does alsa-plugins maemo make sense outside of nokia? :þ | 09:46 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, define 'outside of nokia' | 09:46 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: mainline Linux OMAP | 09:46 |
| Luke-Jr | ignoring current bootability/re-porting issues | 09:47 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, it is usable with non-nokia linux :) | 09:48 |
| Luke-Jr | is it useful? | 09:48 |
| slonopotamus | making sence is irrelevant | 09:48 |
| Luke-Jr | what does it do, exactly? | 09:48 |
| Luke-Jr | offloads codecs? | 09:48 |
| Captain_Picard | how exactly can i run a windows program on maemo? | 09:48 |
| Luke-Jr | figure out what USE flag represents "offload codecs to dsp" | 09:48 |
| Captain_Picard | first qemu on maemo ? | 09:48 |
| Luke-Jr | Captain_Picard: hard work and effort | 09:48 |
| Captain_Picard | then from qemu wine? | 09:48 |
| Luke-Jr | Captain_Picard: and a ton of disk space | 09:48 |
| Captain_Picard | 32gb! should be enough | 09:49 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, no idea. how many volume controls do you have on omap kernel? | 09:49 |
| johnx | Captain_Picard, the short answer is: unless you feel like doing some serious hacking/packaging: you can't | 09:49 |
| Captain_Picard | ok | 09:49 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: … about 50+? | 09:49 |
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| johnx | and even if you did a ton of work: it would never be fast enough to be usable | 09:49 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, working, i mean | 09:49 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: I don't have the time to figure out what they all do | 09:50 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, hmm. s/nokia-osso-linux/dsp/ for sound? | 09:50 |
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| benson | good morning. How can n810 support A2DP? | 09:51 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: dsp-codecs perhaps? | 09:51 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, and revert to 'cx3110x' for wifi? | 09:51 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i'm thinking about pushing alsa-plugins to gentoo upstream. they won't accept 'dsp-codecs' | 09:52 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: why not? | 09:52 |
| johnx | benson, on maemo: checkout my A2DP thread. the basics still apply, but you'll have to put together some bits and pieces if you want it to work even moderately well | 09:52 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, 'cause there are no codecs in alsa-plugins | 09:53 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: then what are they? | 09:53 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, 'they'? codecs are in osso-dsp-modules | 09:53 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: alsa_cards_SOMETHING | 09:53 |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: we should make n8x0 profiles to set these USE flags XD | 09:56 |
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| Luke-Jr | and include n8x0-env in @system | 09:56 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, why in @system? | 09:57 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, profiles - maybe. too lazy to do it for 2 flags | 10:00 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, so. either use nokia-osso-linux for both sound and wifi (so alsa + wifi + nokia-osso-linux brings in them both) or drop nokia-osso-linux at all and use separate cx3110x/<dsp_smth>. makes sence? | 10:02 |
| slonopotamus | i'm happy with both approaches | 10:02 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, which one you prefer? | 10:03 |
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| Luke-Jr | <dsp_smth> is obvious | 10:04 |
| Luke-Jr | alsa_cards_SOMETHING | 10:04 |
| Luke-Jr | what was the chipset? :þ | 10:04 |
| Luke-Jr | ...he left | 10:04 |
| Luke-Jr | -.- | 10:04 |
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| slonopotamus | meh, battery died | 10:06 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you answered smth? | 10:06 |
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| johnx | grr...appears I need to actually be a little smarter about my builder | 10:20 |
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| RST38bis | maemo.org seems to have died | 11:06 |
| johnx | wonder if it got /.'ed | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | Worksforme[tm]? | 11:06 |
| johnx | t.m.o is down for me | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | Ah talk. | 11:07 |
| RST38bis | X-Fade: At least you ar enot answering with FixedInFremantle... | 11:07 |
| X-Fade | Works for me too btw. | 11:07 |
| RST38bis | Brainstorm did not work either | 11:07 |
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| X-Fade | Also works for me. | 11:08 |
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| sivang | morning all | 11:14 |
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| benson | morning | 11:29 |
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| sivang | are there any nokia people around ? | 11:44 |
| Proteous | damn nokia people | 11:45 |
| Proteous | always hanging around | 11:45 |
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| Jaffa | sivang: Possibly; but this isn't an official Nokia support channel. It's a community/development/user channel, in which some Nokians are involved. | 11:48 |
| sivang | Jaffa: I want to speak with a developer not for support purposes | 11:51 |
| * lbt is beginning to like eclipse UML2 modeller | 11:52 | |
| lbt | sivang: just ask :) | 11:52 |
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| sivang | I am an experienced ubuntu MOTU , with python and pygtk develpoment experience , linux experience (no kernel hacking though) i'm also conversant with C, and I want to work for nokia. I can do package builds, merges, develop apps, improve UI and do QA. | 11:53 |
| sivang | I want to work for nokia. | 11:53 |
| sivang | I'm not sure I fit to the regular applicant definition, that's why I prefer to talk to nokians here | 11:54 |
| lbt | http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobsearch.ftl | 11:54 |
| sivang | (I don't have a degree and I am all self-taught) | 11:54 |
| lbt | where are you based? | 11:55 |
| sivang | Israel | 11:55 |
| * lbt is not nokian just FYI | 11:55 | |
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| lbt | are you going to the summit? | 11:55 |
| sivang | which summit ? | 11:55 |
| sivang | the barceloan one? | 11:55 |
| lbt | Maemo 2009 summit | 11:55 |
| lbt | http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit_2009 | 11:56 |
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| lbt | I suggest you start by forgetting about the job thing | 11:56 |
| sivang | I just lost my job so it will be a problem financing this, but I need to check | 11:56 |
| lbt | and demonstrating capability in the community | 11:56 |
| lbt | get involved and get familiar with Maemo (and maybe Mer) | 11:57 |
| lbt | and *maybe* it will lead to something | 11:57 |
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| sivang | so I need to starve for a year, and hope someone will notice my contribution and hire me? :) | 11:58 |
| lbt | yes | 11:58 |
| sivang | interesting :-p | 11:58 |
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| * lbt is in a similar position... | 11:58 | |
| sivang | ah | 11:58 |
| Khertan_ | Hi ! | 11:58 |
| sivang | I see | 11:58 |
| * Proteous gives lbt some food | 11:58 | |
| sivang | what about rent? | 11:58 |
| sivang | how do you pay the rent ? | 11:58 |
| * lbt grabs and runs into a corner cackling madly | 11:58 | |
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| Proteous | lol | 11:58 |
| lbt | sivang: I saved up! | 11:59 |
| sivang | I wish I could.. I have some kids depe3nding on me so it's not easy | 11:59 |
| lbt | seriously though... you are unlikely to get a job by wandering into IRC and asking.... but you can get some valuable skills and establish credibility in the community | 11:59 |
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| suihkulokki | there are maemo jobs also outside nokia as well that might be easier to grab: http://dy.fi/eol | 12:00 |
| beatpanic | sivang, try to find another work, not nokia related. get interviews, send cvs | 12:00 |
| suihkulokki | site is in fi_FI but you can grab the buzzwords from the job ads ;) | 12:00 |
| Khertan_ | suihkulokki: hum ... everythings located in .fi :) | 12:01 |
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| Myrtti | Khertan_: WELCOME TO FINLAND! | 12:01 |
| Khertan_ | héhé | 12:01 |
| Myrtti | we embrace you and lavish you with salmiakkikossu | 12:01 |
| Khertan_ | to be honest it ll be an experience, but ... my wife already found that france is a cold country | 12:02 |
| Khertan_ | so i can't imagine her living in .fi | 12:02 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 12:02 |
| Myrtti | the trick is woolly socks. | 12:02 |
| suihkulokki | in finland we have this thing called central heating | 12:02 |
| beatpanic | lol, salmiakki is strange but good | 12:02 |
| beatpanic | for my taste | 12:02 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_: Well, there is also a lot of work done in Bangalore ;) | 12:03 |
| Myrtti | beatpanic: add vodka and you've got salmiakkikossu | 12:03 |
| Myrtti | nomnom | 12:03 |
| sivang | beatpanic: getting a nokia job is impossible ? | 12:03 |
| beatpanic | Myrtti, I see :) | 12:03 |
| X-Fade | sivang: Not at all. As you can see they are hiring. | 12:03 |
| beatpanic | sivang, I don't know, but if I think about your position, I'll first research the local offers | 12:03 |
| beatpanic | sivang, I don't work for nokia :) | 12:04 |
| sivang | I'll find another job and contribute meanwhile :) | 12:04 |
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| beatpanic | sivang, try to make a cool maemo app, and share it, maybe it will get noticed! | 12:04 |
| sivang | I have an idea already for one | 12:04 |
| beatpanic | sivang, cool | 12:05 |
| sivang | not sure how to start, since the sdk seems very crippled and in a very bad shape | 12:05 |
| sivang | and app manager doesn't really work | 12:05 |
| sivang | we added repositories by hand and apt-get installed to get some apps running | 12:05 |
| sivang | how can I work on the SDK/ os itself? | 12:05 |
| sivang | without kernel hacking, that is | 12:05 |
| sivang | should I have used an older distro and upgraded to 5 ? | 12:06 |
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| msh_ | mm. scratchbox.org needs mirroring on akamai or something I reckon. | 12:08 |
| sivang | my app needs acces to the accelometers | 12:08 |
| Macer | hm | 12:08 |
| sivang | can this be simulated in the SDK ? | 12:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | sivang: so um | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia hires lots of people | 12:09 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: you a nokian ? | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | we generally stick you into a box | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | so, if you're QA, you won't do engineering | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | if you're engineering, you'll be banned from QA | 12:09 |
| sivang | hahah | 12:09 |
| timeless_mbp | once you're moved to management, forget about doing engineering | 12:10 |
| sivang | I will never move to management | 12:10 |
| sivang | I will write code till the day I die! | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | that's what they all say :) | 12:10 |
| sivang | heheh | 12:10 |
| aquatix | wait till you reach 35 ;) | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | please note that Harmattan was announced as including Qt | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and Qt is built on C++ | 12:10 |
| beatpanic | lol | 12:10 |
| sivang | what about PyQT ? | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | if I were a nascent job applicant | 12:10 |
| timeless_mbp | please also note that Nokia recently announced PySide (?) | 12:11 |
| sivang | I noticed that | 12:11 |
| sivang | yes | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | I don't know anything about Python, PyQt or PySide | 12:11 |
| sivang | the ubertranslator | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | however, I wouldn't highlight C in an application to work on something like Harmattan | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | and I have no idea what our python story is :) | 12:11 |
| sivang | it seems you use lots of it | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | you can check the public info to see if we've provided one | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | really? | 12:11 |
| sivang | yes | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | news to me :) | 12:11 |
| sivang | check the SDK | 12:11 |
| timeless_mbp | no thanks :-) | 12:12 |
| sivang | every blow up has a cpython backtrace | 12:12 |
| lbt | sivang: if you want to learn about the OS then look at Mer; we're kinda backporting fremantle (+harmattan) to the older devices | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, i'm not sure i'm in a position where i could/would comment on how hiring works | 12:13 |
| samad__ | could anybody help me how to enable vibration of N900 ? | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.nokia.com/careers/jobs/how-to-apply | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.brainmass.com/homework-help/business/other/62121 | 12:13 |
| timeless_mbp | are the first two google hits for |nokia hiring| :) | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | samad_: um, you have an n900 but don't know how? | 12:14 |
| timeless_mbp | did you steal it? | 12:14 |
| *** calvaris has quit IRC | 12:14 | |
| * lbt offers samad__ $$$$ | 12:14 | |
| samad__ | i have no device with me | 12:14 |
| * lbt revokes offer | 12:14 | |
| beatpanic | :( | 12:15 |
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| adeus | is there valgrind available for the device in the repos? | 12:15 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | valgrind doesn't work on arm | 12:16 |
| *** calvaris has joined #maemo | 12:16 | |
| timeless_mbp | setup an x86 scratchbox and use valgrind there | 12:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: ping | 12:16 |
| adeus | except the thing doesn't leak memory in x86 :) | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ misspelled "GObject" :( | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | adeus: well then, i guess you can't use valgrind :) | 12:16 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, i've setup gdb-server and used breakpoints + macros | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | it's incredibly expensive, but it will work :) | 12:17 |
| adeus | something consumes the heap on the device | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | s/device/app/ ? | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | heaps are per app... | 12:17 |
| adeus | well yes | 12:18 |
| adeus | point being thins happens on the device only | 12:18 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 12:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: that whole page is buggy | 12:18 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: -> dneary | 12:19 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: docmaster | 12:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: can i just file a bug in bugzilla? | 12:19 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: yes, there is documentation in there. | 12:19 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: probably goes to Jarmo. | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i can pick dneary for the assignee | 12:20 |
| timeless_mbp | it does default to jarmo | 12:20 |
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| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: Well it is Jarmo's doc. | 12:21 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: dneary can only help ping and push, I guess. | 12:22 |
| timeless_mbp | dneary has 2 bugzilla accounts | 12:22 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 12:22 | |
| timeless_mbp | Bug 5054 has been added to the database | 12:22 |
| * kirma wonders if browser supplied in N900 is going to provide semi-standardised, or even any sort of location javascript API | 12:22 | |
| kirma | if not, that's quite a pity | 12:22 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: what do you work on? | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: btw, doing homework is recommended | 12:23 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: ah :) | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo.org has a page for registered users | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | if you can't figure it out, i'd personally be uninterested in hiring you | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | n.b. i have no influence over hiring | 12:24 |
| * sivang goes to stand in the corner and looks for the registered users page | 12:24 | |
| Macer | raising the bar is a riot | 12:24 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 12:27 | |
| sivang | usability wise, I think this page had to offer me to register: | 12:27 |
| sivang | http://maemo.org/news/events/registrations/register/e840196271eb11deb15535a00f6d72187218/ | 12:27 |
| sivang | who's incharge of the website? | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you can file bugs about the website in bugs.maemo.org | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | : | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 12:27 |
| Proteous | ::) | 12:28 |
| Proteous | :::)) | 12:28 |
| Proteous | :::))) | 12:28 |
| Proteous | ::::)) | 12:28 |
| Proteous | ::::)))) | 12:28 |
| * qwerty12_N810 misses the funny Proteous | 12:28 | |
| Proteous | wait, what are we doing? | 12:28 |
| Proteous | hey now | 12:28 |
| VDVsx | sivang, https://garage.maemo.org/account/register.php | 12:28 |
| sivang | do I need to open an account to file bugs? :) | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | certainly | 12:29 |
| VDVsx | button in the top | 12:29 |
| sivang | VDVsx: thanks | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | how else can we ask for clarification when your questions aren't clear enough | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | or verification when we do a half-assed job fixing your bug | 12:29 |
| Proteous | I tried to file a bug once, it was hard, I kept squishing it | 12:29 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: see the irony ? | 12:29 |
| sivang | :) | 12:29 |
| sivang | usability, usability | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | you are aware this is a series of Nokia related services, no? :) | 12:29 |
| Proteous | I'd service nokia if they gave me a n900 | 12:30 |
| sivang | hehe | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | i think our definition of usability is something like "If it's shiny, it must be usable" | 12:30 |
| * sivang rotfls | 12:30 | |
| Proteous | not really | 12:31 |
| Proteous | that's all for tonight folks, I'll be here all week | 12:31 |
| beatpanic | medium serious question: I have no problem in using scratchbox etc, but it will be there an IDE to develop for N900? (I'm thinking for other people, so generous :) | 12:31 |
| VDVsx | interesting for game 'porters': http://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/08/31/nintendo-sixty/ | 12:31 |
| VDVsx | especially the OGL part ;) | 12:32 |
| sivang | beatpanic: there's gvim :) | 12:32 |
| beatpanic | sivang, I prefer, vim :) | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | beatpanic: there's a um... something plugin for eclipse iirc | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | you can google for |maemo eclipse| | 12:32 |
| beatpanic | timeless_mbp, ok, fine thanks | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=maemo+eclipse | 12:33 |
| beatpanic | timeless_mbp, LOL good man :) | 12:33 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't use that often | 12:34 | |
| VDVsx | beatpanic, ESbox and PluThon ;) | 12:34 |
| beatpanic | VDVsx, saw saw :) | 12:34 |
| * beatpanic is willing to try the N900 as soon as it is out | 12:34 | |
| * beatpanic hopes to make it buy here at work "for research" :) | 12:35 | |
| * Khertan_ hope he will be selected for a developper program :) | 12:35 | |
| tbf | go to nokia world or ifa ;-) | 12:35 |
| tbf | beatpanic: ^ | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | irish football? | 12:36 |
| tbf | beatpanic: no idea if you can touch the device there already, but afaik they's show it | 12:36 |
| lcuk | Khertan_, the only nokia developer program for this device is a neural implant. if you want to take part, ill go get my hammer and chisel - for "installation" :D | 12:36 |
| VDVsx | hiihihih | 12:36 |
| kirma | I wonder when nokia flagship stores might be featuring N900 as showpiece | 12:36 |
| * timeless_mbp visits ifa-show.com and can't figure out anything beyond "it's in Berlin" | 12:37 | |
| Khertan_ | ok ... see you at the summit to implement yours :) | 12:37 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | kirma: i'd sure hope soon after launch | 12:37 |
| tbf | timeless_mbp: "Internationale Funkausstellung" - http://www.ifa-berlin.com/ | 12:37 |
| kirma | launch == nokia world? | 12:37 |
| kirma | or actual shipments... | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | shipment | 12:37 |
| beatpanic | tbf, it would be cool, but there is good beer in stuttgart? :P | 12:37 |
| Khertan_ | none :) | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, wrong word | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | FCS i suppose | 12:37 |
| beatpanic | berlin mon amour | 12:37 |
| SpeedEvil | What is the current showpiece? | 12:37 |
| lcuk | khertan_ :o | 12:38 |
| tbf | beatpanic: good beer as in pilsner? yes. | 12:38 |
| lcuk | nooo i opted out of that program, i own an iphone now | 12:38 |
| lcuk | that unfortunately had an anal adapter for its dev program | 12:38 |
| * lcuk is still clenching | 12:38 | |
| beatpanic | tbf, I prefer weissbier! | 12:38 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk ... haha you can't use an iphone ... you can't compile onboard :) | 12:38 |
| kirma | buttplug and play? | 12:38 |
| tbf | beatpanic: that's not beer :-D | 12:38 |
| beatpanic | tbf, LOL | 12:38 |
| VDVsx | Khertan, btw, do you have plans for a presentation at the summit ? maybe a LT :P | 12:39 |
| beatpanic | tbf, that's a taste experience! | 12:39 |
| lcuk | Khertan_, actually, gcc is available for it | 12:39 |
| Khertan_ | ? hum ... so apple change is mind and allow compiling things onboard ? | 12:39 |
| tbf | beatpanic: well, bavarians even had to invent their own reinheitsgebot for this brühe :-D | 12:40 |
| Khertan_ | VDVsx not yet ... it ll depends on the announce of the next two days | 12:40 |
| lcuk | khertan_ i never said that | 12:40 |
| lcuk | i just said gcc is available | 12:40 |
| tbf | beatpanic: well, actually i only avoid weissbier because it causes headaches | 12:40 |
| Khertan_ | but i think i ll do a Lightning Session | 12:40 |
| VDVsx | Khertan, announce ? | 12:40 |
| lcuk | YES | 12:40 |
| lcuk | do khertan | 12:40 |
| beatpanic | tbf, k | 12:41 |
| tbf | beatpanic: i am always amazed when people managed to drink more than one bottle of it, without having headaches next day | 12:41 |
| Khertan_ | VDVsx: depends on if they announce of a sync with google calendar for the agenda ... | 12:41 |
| tbf | ...well, maybe they have and just learned to mask them :-D | 12:41 |
| beatpanic | tbf, I'm strong of costitution, so I can keep up a bit | 12:41 |
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| VDVsx | Khertan, ah ok ;) | 12:41 |
| Khertan_ | else i ll surely do a lightning session about a sync tool :) | 12:41 |
| VDVsx | Khertan_, we'll be waiting for your submission ;) | 12:42 |
| Khertan_ | yes ... i know | 12:43 |
| Khertan_ | that i should hurry up | 12:43 |
| Khertan_ | this time i ll try to not delete my notes just before the presentation | 12:43 |
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| tbf | beatpanic: those headaches have nothing to do with constitution. it's just the bad quality of this kind of "beer" ;-) | 12:44 |
| Khertan_ | as some know i was hardly working on a new Calendar ... but when i see the one on Maemo5 | 12:44 |
| beatpanic | tbf, I see :) maybe the same talk is about wine! | 12:44 |
| tbf | beatpanic: i don't get headaches from pils, vodka, wine, schnaps... | 12:44 |
| *** jhford is now known as zz_jhford | 12:44 | |
| Khertan_ | mine will be not required anymore except for Maemo 4 users | 12:45 |
| beatpanic | tbf, anyway, I don't have headaches with beer | 12:45 |
| beatpanic | tbf, maybe if I get drunk I'm on a roller coaster, that's all :) | 12:45 |
| Khertan_ | VDVsx: http://khertan.net/2009/08/a-quick-overview-of-the-current-developpment-of-mpim/ | 12:45 |
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| VDVsx | Khertan_, cool | 12:47 |
| Khertan_ | beatpanic: do not forget the need of toilett too :) | 12:47 |
| VDVsx | Khertan, did you saw the WebOS calendar ? there's a very cool feature there, at least for me :P | 12:47 |
| Khertan_ | i didn't see it ... | 12:47 |
| Khertan_ | what is this feature ? | 12:47 |
| beatpanic | Khertan_, sure, puking is mandatory | 12:47 |
| tbf | wtf!? berlin also once was famous for brewing weissbier!? | 12:47 |
| beatpanic | Khertan_, it's a protocol :) | 12:47 |
| Khertan_ | beatpanic: :) | 12:47 |
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| lcuk | and the internet is a series of tubes | 12:48 |
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| RST38bis | lcuk: with fecal matter flowing through them no doubt | 12:49 |
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| VDVsx | Khertan, the ability to 'shrink' the big appointments, like when you have a appointment of 4 hours, this is really useful on small screens | 12:50 |
| VDVsx | dunno if you can understand, hard to explain :P | 12:50 |
| lcuk | the ability to shake the appointments up and scatter them around the screen after a bad day is even more important | 12:50 |
| VDVsx | lollol | 12:50 |
| Khertan_ | arf | 12:51 |
| Khertan_ | i understand | 12:51 |
| Khertan_ | just that i don't see really the interest of the things | 12:51 |
| Khertan_ | but it can be done i suppose | 12:52 |
| VDVsx | Khertan_, it's a feature for people that do a heavy use of the calendar and have lots of appointments per day:) | 12:54 |
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| lcuk | VDVsx, how on earth did people cope before computeres | 12:57 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, piece of paper, piece of rock ? :P | 12:58 |
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| RST38bis | piece of scissors? | 13:00 |
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| *** Moku has joined #maemo | 13:04 | |
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| * RST38bis yawns | 13:11 | |
| * VDVsx sends coffee to RST38bis | 13:14 | |
| *** sphenxes01 has quit IRC | 13:15 | |
| * RST38bis drinks coffee, than swallows the cup | 13:15 | |
| RST38bis | s/than/then | 13:16 |
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| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 13:21 | |
| * SpeedEvil ponders a buisness opportunity. | 13:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | Cups made from ice-cream cone material, lined with... | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | sweet vanilla flavoured egg-white baked on? | 13:22 |
| VDVsx | with coffe flavour, muahh | 13:23 |
| *** Andy80 has joined #maemo | 13:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | With a maemo logo on the side. | 13:25 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 13:27 | |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 13:27 | |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm. Or a cup made from bacon-egg composite. | 13:27 |
| *** Mortah has joined #maemo | 13:27 | |
| * Mortah pokes Jaffa | 13:27 | |
| Mortah | :D | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | This is clearly a concept that works, and needs several millions in venture capital! | 13:28 |
| * SpeedEvil finds a venture capitalist. | 13:28 | |
| * Khertan_ is thinking of doing a forum bot for talk.maemo.org | 13:29 | |
| Khertan_ | if "n800 freemantle" in message: | 13:30 |
| Khertan_ | print "This is one of the purpose of the Mer Project" | 13:30 |
| VDVsx | and if iPhone Fremantle ? ihihi | 13:31 |
| Andy80 | hi all :) | 13:31 |
| VDVsx | hi Andy80 | 13:31 |
| kirma | steve doesn't approve | 13:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Is mer a general 'maemo5 on everything' port? | 13:31 |
| Khertan_ | not really | 13:32 |
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| Jaffa | Mortah: Yup? | 13:33 |
| Mortah | guess who? | 13:33 |
| Jaffa | Mortah: Ah :) | 13:34 |
| Mortah | (Flicked through the channel list and this one is quite high... so I thought I'd say hello) | 13:34 |
| Jaffa | Mortah: You'll have to get yourself an N900 | 13:34 |
| Mortah | I was tempted (just upgraded my phone)... but I have no moneys :( | 13:34 |
| RST38bis | you mean n900 is already out? | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Mortah: Simply get a time machine - and buy one from ebay in 2012. It'll be a bit scratched - but cheap. | 13:35 |
| Jaffa | :) | 13:35 |
| Mortah | SpeedEvil... can't afford a time machine :D | 13:36 |
| aquatix | SpeedEvil: not to forget, it'll likely come with the latest updates | 13:36 |
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| Mortah | Jaffa, about your last tweet... there is only so much time I can sit coding on my own before my need for socialising kicks in. Seems it's ~ 6 months | 13:37 |
| Jaffa | Mortah: Ah, even geeks need to socialise. Especially around gadget lust | 13:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | Mortah: you social animal! :) | 13:38 |
| Mortah | very true, gadget lust, tech lust or games | 13:38 |
| aquatix | (or lust in general?) | 13:40 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes Jaffa | 13:40 | |
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| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: yup? | 13:43 |
| Jaffa | Is this the new #maemo game? | 13:43 |
| timeless_mbp | this is the other channel, yes | 13:44 |
| timeless_mbp | can you look in and comment? | 13:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | /topic Nothing to do here, except for poking Jaffa | 13:44 |
| * Jaffa goes to look. irssi didn't highlight my nick :( | 13:44 | |
| * Jaffa imagines much pokeage tomorrow at Nokia World | 13:44 | |
| * timeless_mbp wonders why it didn't highlight | 13:44 | |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: i'm going to try to catch smaug for lunch | 13:45 |
| RST38bis | OMAP2 is ARM11, right? | 13:45 |
| zerojayPC | Hope you have a good time, Jaffa. | 13:45 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: I suspect irssi needs some bit twiddled for having a nick highlighted anywhere apart from at the start of the screen | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 13:46 |
| timeless_mbp | well, your client is lame ;-) | 13:46 |
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| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Yup | 13:47 |
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| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp, shouldn't you be using chatzilla :P | 13:48 |
| * RST38bis is getting all teary reading through Cortex presentation | 13:48 | |
| RST38bis | when, ah when... | 13:49 |
| zerojayPC | Jaffa: The sprint meeting is today, right? | 13:49 |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: sp3000 uses it | 13:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i have used chatzilla at times | 13:50 |
| jeremiah | zerojayPC: Yup | 13:53 |
| jeremiah | 13:30 UTC | 13:53 |
| jeremiah | timeless_mbp: irssi rox0rz | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | anything that causes dataloss sucks :) | 13:55 |
| adeus | rm | 13:56 |
| jeremiah | rm -rf / | 13:57 |
| * Myrtti smacs jeremiah | 13:58 | |
| Myrtti | naughty | 13:59 |
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| * timeless_mbp is too lazy to start osol to have it return an error | 14:03 | |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 14:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://blogs.sun.com/jbeck/date/20041001#rm_rf_protection | 14:04 |
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| Mortah | wow, some standards bodies really do like being pedantic | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | job security | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | but also... changing standards mostly violates the idea of having a standard | 14:06 |
| zerojayPC | jeremiah, Jaffa: I'll do what I can to be there, but I'm at work during that time. I'll be on my tablet typing slowly at best. | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | imagine a standard w/ one million revisions | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | is that one standard, or one million competing, and by definition incompatible, standards? | 14:07 |
| jeremiah | zerojayPC: heh | 14:07 |
| jeremiah | See you then | 14:07 |
| * jeremiah spanks Myrtti, Now _that_ is naughty! | 14:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | oops, i'm late for lunch | 14:08 |
| * timeless_mbp runs | 14:08 | |
| *** timeless_mbp has quit IRC | 14:08 | |
| lcuk | jeremiah, Myrtti get a room! | 14:09 |
| lcuk | (amsterdam has them charging by the 1/2 hour :p | 14:09 |
| zerojayPC | lol | 14:10 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: Oh really? How would you know? | 14:10 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, someone posted your last expenses form online | 14:10 |
| jeremiah | oh. shit. | 14:10 |
| lcuk | :D | 14:11 |
| jeremiah | :P | 14:11 |
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| lcuk | on that score - jaffa, make sure when you look for hotels to ensure you book each of us in for the whole night | 14:11 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, 5 whole packages now! | 14:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | blah | 14:12 |
| lcuk | (released anyway) | 14:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | hm, i need a touchbook | 14:13 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: Good stuff | 14:13 |
| jeremiah | When is liqme coming out? | 14:13 |
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| lcuk | heh well since everything is standalone now ... | 14:13 |
| MaceN8x0 | never!! | 14:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 14:14 |
| lcuk | each app has its own icon and stuff, whilst at the same time be available integrated into my playground | 14:15 |
| lcuk | MaceN8x0, dont tempt me | 14:15 |
| lcuk | liqtorch was a "quick" test case | 14:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | ouch | 14:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | guilty | 14:15 |
| lcuk | end to end in maybe 1hour | 14:15 |
| lcuk | shame it took me 18months of prep work to get to that point | 14:15 |
| lcuk | but now i have it, i can do things much simpler :) | 14:16 |
| * lcuk likes c | 14:16 | |
| * Mortah off for lunch before working on shiny new features | 14:19 | |
| lcuk | Mortah, what are you working on then | 14:20 |
| * lcuk likes shiney | 14:20 | |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Mortah gets to look at shiny models all day: http://www.sonnetmodels.com/ | 14:24 |
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| lcuk | hah | 14:34 |
| lcuk | hows travelling goin jaffa | 14:35 |
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| * Khertan_ think that the nokia world begin today ... | 14:42 | |
| * Khertan_ just see that it s 2 and 3 september ... not 1 and 2 ... :( | 14:42 | |
| VDVsx | humm, rm-559 should be the new ITT :P | 14:43 |
| VDVsx | https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=508284&fcc_id=%27LJPRM-559%27 | 14:43 |
| VDVsx | it's a phone :( | 14:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | Does the qrcode mean anything? | 14:45 |
| SpeedEvil | (on the fcc ID label) | 14:45 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Flight leaves Heathrow at 2055 | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | VDVsx: hmm - no FM transmitter | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | VDVsx: actually - no - that wouldn't be counted as they loophole by being low power? | 14:47 |
| VDVsx | anyways, let's wait for nokia world :) | 14:48 |
| Khertan_ | Nokia RM-559 ... could be a e900 ? | 14:51 |
| Khertan_ | lol VDVsx it didn t see your post | 14:51 |
| Khertan_ | ; | 14:51 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 14:51 |
| Myrtti | humdidumdi | 14:51 |
| kirma | I've heard of multiple maemo devices under development | 14:52 |
| VDVsx | lets call it by the name: Alvin :P | 14:52 |
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| Khertan_ | kirma >> no more details ? | 14:53 |
| kirma | but also things about them that are contradictory with each other regarding when those would come to market | 14:53 |
| kirma | khertan: even if I had specific details, I wouldn't probably tell... even if I don't personally have NDA | 14:53 |
| Khertan_ | did you work at nokia ? | 14:54 |
| kirma | let's say that probably half of my friends are inside the local nokia ecosystem in a way or another | 14:55 |
| Khertan_ | hum ... yep so this is understable | 14:55 |
| Khertan_ | by no more details i suppose a link to a public source or something already publish | 14:56 |
| Khertan_ | i don t ask for other things | 14:56 |
| Khertan_ | of course | 14:56 |
| kirma | I've never quite directly worked at nokia, but "almost" | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Khertan: compare the frequency bands to the existing ones. | 14:56 |
| Khertan_ | anyway ... i think we ll get more information the next two days ... | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I haven't checked - look to see if the wcdma are the same | 14:57 |
| kirma | manufacturing in hungary might well point towards a device that isn't quite on top of the product line | 14:57 |
| kirma | much more mass-market oriented model maybe than E90 has been | 14:58 |
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| * SpeedEvil wishes they hadn't requested secrecy for the schematics :) | 14:59 | |
| Khertan_ | kirma: this is what i think too when i see manufactured in hungary | 14:59 |
| kirma | one option might theoretically be mechanically less challenging touchscreen only version | 14:59 |
| Khertan_ | Battery BL-5J | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Touchscreen only version with magnetometer would be nice. | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | err - compass | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | and selling for $50 unlocked. | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 15:00 |
| Khertan_ | what is funny on this 559 is that the sticker say : MADE IN HUNGARY | 15:01 |
| Khertan_ | and : FABRIQUE EN HONGRIE | 15:01 |
| Khertan_ | which is in french | 15:01 |
| kirma | but what RM standed for? I think tablets and E900 have been internally RX series | 15:02 |
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| Khertan_ | Dummy battery FS-77R << what s that ? | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | It's an open phone - so maybe they are using the first two letters of RMS? | 15:02 |
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| kirma | if some things I've heard are true, there might actually be like four maemo devices on the market before end of the year, but at the same time, there has been lots of things in those rumors that quite don't fit together | 15:04 |
| SpeedEvil | A largish internet tablet thingy might be nice too. | 15:04 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes trackpoint were available. | 15:04 | |
| kirma | I'm a bit pessimistic with that (large tablet as success) | 15:05 |
| kirma | there is not much market segment between devices that fit to pocket like a phone, and devices that are fully usable laptops (including netbooks) | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd like something like a 6" widescreen screen, with a trackpoint on it. | 15:06 |
| suihkulokki | we know how big tabletpc's were :P | 15:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | But maybe I'm wierd. | 15:06 |
| kirma | you need a separate carrying bag for them anyway, and devices don't tend to be very sturdy, so the bag has to be such... | 15:06 |
| RST38bis | RM-559 is Alvin. It is an expressmusic device. | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I also want a 11" 4:3 laptop. | 15:06 |
| Khertan_ | WCDMA 1900 Test results | 15:06 |
| * Khertan_ prefer the same screen size as his n810 | 15:07 | |
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| Khertan_ | RST38bis: thx for the information | 15:07 |
| * RST38bis wants a StarTrek datapad | 15:07 | |
| Khertan_ | RST38bis: startrek datapad is outdated | 15:08 |
| kirma | nokia does product placement on latest star trek movie... :I | 15:09 |
| kirma | intentionally on side of absurdity imho ;) | 15:09 |
| RST38bis | Khertan: Not at all | 15:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | datapad is a sane form factor IMO. | 15:10 |
| Jaffa | Oooh, Quim says that the dashboard and desktop bits of Maemo 5 are both going to be opensource | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | The hard part is making it robust - if you come up with one that you can sit on... | 15:10 |
| * SpeedEvil wants sit-on-proof laptops. | 15:11 | |
| Mortah | SpeedEvil, they would then also be strong enough for boshing would-be thieves :) | 15:12 |
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| rkirti | good morning | 15:13 |
| kirma | datapad that you can sit on and handle more carelessly than delicate $1000 glass vase is ok, but exactly those things are missing from all devices except something like toughbooks (which are *heavy*) | 15:15 |
| lcuk | kirma, cheaper way to get same result - make these devices spikey | 15:16 |
| RST38bis | Speed: aluminium, tempered glass | 15:16 |
| lcuk | you would only ever sit on one in your lifetime | 15:16 |
| kirma | :) | 15:16 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, that's hildon-desktop, I guess | 15:17 |
| kirma | nobody has a paper notepad they handle with constant fear of breaking it because it might slip to the floor | 15:17 |
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| RST38bis | nobody has a paper notepad that can connect to data sources wirelessly and update its contents on its own, not to mention ability to remove drawings without wasting a page | 15:19 |
| RST38bis | so, what was your point? =) | 15:19 |
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| Jaffa | VDVsx: Guess so | 15:20 |
| kirma | well... | 15:20 |
| glass_ | in star treks time the datapad could be any shape and any material the engineer had wanted | 15:20 |
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| RST38bis | glass: they usually came as thin rectangular pads of different sizes | 15:20 |
| RST38bis | "any shape and material" is more like Stephenson | 15:20 |
| kirma | I wonder how big challenge it would be to cut displays to non-rectangular shape | 15:21 |
| RST38bis | or whatever that latest post-modern post-technologic sf writer is named | 15:21 |
| glass_ | kirma: not at all | 15:21 |
| kirma | probably causes extra costs though | 15:22 |
| glass_ | kirma: good luck finding someone wanting to buy a triangular monitor tho | 15:22 |
| RST38bis | Doesn't LCD use a rectangular grid of cells? | 15:22 |
| kirma | :) | 15:22 |
| kirma | the benefit of slightly non-rectangular display that might occur on phone or such would be... very slight, though | 15:23 |
| lbt | Jaffa: cite? | 15:24 |
| Mortah | there was a 'trendy' tv that was non-rectangular | 15:24 |
| Mortah | well, kinda | 15:24 |
| Mortah | it was widescreen + standard size overlapped | 15:24 |
| Mortah | an L shape | 15:25 |
| glass_ | first tubes were spherical at the end,no? | 15:25 |
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| glass_ | you could place (o)led arrays to form anything i suppose nowadays | 15:26 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=319442&postcount=17 | 15:29 |
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| lbt | ta | 15:30 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: yes - however nothing says you have to fill the array. You can cut a TFT monitor in half diagonally - and the bit connected to the row and column electrodes will still work. Or arbitrarily distort it. (do not try this at home [unless you have a LCD fab in your home]) | 15:33 |
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| kirma | square-ness of pixels becomes also less and less relevant with increase of GPU power and capabilities | 15:34 |
| kirma | at least if you ignore the fact that traditionally software is written with square pixel assumption :] | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | It's hard to fabricate non rectiliniar arrays though - comparatively | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | which is what I meant - but the screen overall dimensions don't have to be square or rectangular. | 15:36 |
| kirma | it could be interesting to have triangular/octagonal pattern, and potentially some other subpixel color scheme than RGB :) | 15:36 |
| lcuk | they exist | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Though curved edges are going to be tricky. | 15:36 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 15:36 | |
| lcuk | thats what cleartype on MS is meant to solve | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | The ideal would be a black and white display. | 15:36 |
| lcuk | GBR RGB triniton etc all have different layouts | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | With true 180Hz or so response. | 15:37 |
| lcuk | speedevil :) | 15:37 |
| lbt | or stick a cardboard mask over a bigger display... | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | And RGB backlights | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | RGBW backlights even | 15:37 |
| lcuk | i always wanted to have GGG instead of RGB | 15:37 |
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| lcuk | we would be working on 2400*480 display | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Current LCDs lose at least 5/6ths of the backlight due to colour filters and polarisation. | 15:38 |
| kirma | non-square pixels could work reasonably when resolutions rise to levels that N900 has, for instance | 15:38 |
| SpeedEvil | IMO - 100dpi as the default desktop resolution is insane. | 15:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | 140-180dpi is closer to where you start getting diminishing returns. | 15:39 |
| kirma | N900 is like 260+ dpi | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - that's silly unless you have it right up to your face. | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | My other device is 285. | 15:39 |
| kirma | but of course, eye distance is much shorter | 15:39 |
| SpeedEvil | You can have an 80*25 xterm non-fullscreen on a 3.5" display :) | 15:40 |
| lcuk | kirma | 15:40 |
| SpeedEvil | And it's readable. | 15:40 |
| lcuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pixel_geometry_01_Pengo.jpg | 15:40 |
| lcuk | the x0 is the best | 15:40 |
| lcuk | in different lighting conditions it changes its effective resolution | 15:40 |
| lcuk | its amazing | 15:40 |
| lcuk | but complex to code for at the backend | 15:41 |
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| kirma | lcuk: yep yep | 15:45 |
| kirma | it might even be triangular layout... maybe smaller gaps between pixels. | 15:46 |
| kirma | or octagonal rather | 15:46 |
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| dneary | hi all | 15:51 |
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| VDVsx | wb dneary :) | 15:56 |
| dneary | VDVsx: I was about, just not on IRC :) | 15:56 |
| lcuk | hello dneary, you finally arrived back in present time! | 15:57 |
| lcuk | what marvelous things did you see on your journeys :P :D | 15:57 |
| lcuk | and did you bring an almanac back with you? | 15:57 |
| dneary | VDVsx: Do you know what that blank spot at 12am on Saturday in the app developers track is? | 15:57 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Can I claim that? | 15:58 |
| X-Fade | dneary: For 'Publishing your software through maemo.org' | 15:58 |
| dneary | X-Fade: Let's see what it's for yet :) | 15:58 |
| VDVsx | dneary, yes I know :) | 15:58 |
| dneary | Maybe I don't know something Valerio does | 15:58 |
| dneary | We seem to have lots of lightning talk slots to fill | 15:59 |
| VDVsx | dneary, that was one of the hijacked slots, I forgot to put the text back | 15:59 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule&oldid=16577 | 16:01 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, did khertan apply yet | 16:01 |
| lcuk | if not, take a big stick | 16:01 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, nop | 16:01 |
| lcuk | Khertan, :P theres a spot with your name waiting for it | 16:01 |
| lbt | quote of the week.... guy in #mer want's to get some usb drivers for his SmartQ5. Needs to cross-recompile the kernel | 16:02 |
| lbt | " I was thinking of just using the Windows gcc port. But obviously you don't think thats a good idea? " | 16:02 |
| * VDVsx ->facepalm | 16:03 | |
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| lcuk | lbt, thats the best idea yet - use gcc windows to compile windows kernel for smartq | 16:03 |
| lcuk | winrar! | 16:03 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, and you should have an e-mail about it also | 16:06 |
| RST38bis | gcc arm toolchain for windows would be nice though | 16:06 |
| * mgedmin feels tired ... | 16:06 | |
| RST38bis | Will gcce work? | 16:06 |
| * lbt makes a not for the summit talk... | 16:06 | |
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| RST38bis | 1 | 16:08 |
| lbt | VDVsx: did you make any decisions on the OBS/git thing? I'd be happy to run them together - but it would be good to take a longer (55min) slot | 16:08 |
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| lbt | we have cross-build acceleration on OBS now so that would be in there too | 16:09 |
| VDVsx | lbt, not yet | 16:09 |
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| julianoliver | is there a list of devices known to run Maemo? | 16:10 |
| lbt | 770, N800, N810, N900 | 16:10 |
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| lcuk | lbt, cross build acceleration - how many hours to compile qt then now? | 16:10 |
| * RST38bis curses marketing people who call their 4-page advertising booklets "datasheets" | 16:10 | |
| lbt | 4 minutes | 16:10 |
| Meizirkki | lbt, how long do you think arm build of Qt would take now using OBS ? | 16:10 |
| lcuk | tps reports | 16:11 |
| lcuk | lbt :O srsly? | 16:11 |
| lbt | I only accelerated the non-gcc bits :( | 16:11 |
| RST38bis | Four pages of MS Word clipart and abstract statements ARE NOT a datasheet, bastards | 16:11 |
| lbt | trying to build a cross-gcc at the moment | 16:11 |
| lcuk | so how long from source to packages for qt? | 16:11 |
| lbt | for normal builds we're seeing a difference | 16:11 |
| lbt | the emulated package handling is quite slow | 16:11 |
| lcuk | i find the git handling a little slow | 16:12 |
| julianoliver | lbt: is there a Nokia policy on porting Maemo for other platforms? | 16:12 |
| lcuk | on large packages | 16:12 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38bis: I agree with your sentiment, and would like to subscribe to your publication, or horde of villagers with torches and scythes. Can supply own scythe. | 16:12 |
| lbt | julianoliver: go for it | 16:12 |
| lbt | Mer is the maemo.org project you want | 16:12 |
| julianoliver | nice, so no binary blobs excluding ports | 16:12 |
| lbt | it kinda ports maemo to SmartQ | 16:12 |
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| lbt | and works around binary blob issues | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Also, can round-tables be added to the schedule? | 16:14 |
| kirma | rst38bis: I still like the contents of old Ampex hard drive I had on PDP-11... it had circuit schematics and all | 16:14 |
| X-Fade | dneary: It would be good for people to see that those are also an option. | 16:14 |
| lbt | lcuk: It only started to work yesterday | 16:14 |
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| RST38bis | kirma: That was long long time ago, when negineers still had the rest of the company under control | 16:14 |
| lbt | lcuk: I am on planet.maemo.org though :) | 16:15 |
| lcuk | lbt cool - you tried for a while to get that runnin | 16:15 |
| lbt | sadly I need to figure out this aggregation thing | 16:15 |
| Khertan_ | [15:01] <lcuk> VDVsx, did khertan apply yet [15:02] <lcuk> if not, take a big stick [15:02] <VDVsx> lcuk, nop 5:01] <lcuk> VDVsx, did khertan apply yet [15:02] <lcuk> if not, take a big stick [15:02] <VDVsx> lcuk, nop [15:02] <lcuk> Khertan, :P theres a spot with your name waiting for it | 16:15 |
| Khertan_ | hum ... :) | 16:15 |
| lbt | so more than 5 words appear | 16:15 |
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| * SpeedEvil has a cellphone with schematics. :) | 16:16 | |
| lbt | lcuk: yes... read up... it's not totally straighforward | 16:16 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Your posts on planet look fine to me... | 16:16 |
| RST38bis | kirma: Now you have got CEOs, CTOs, lawyers, marketing, strategy planners, demand analytics, integration specialists, quality assurance, and deep down there, at the bottom, in a dark cubicle you have got an engineer, hired to do their bidding | 16:16 |
| lbt | fiferboy: but Categories: scratchbox ?? | 16:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38bis: naah. The engineer is in someone elses cubicle halfway round the planet - and doesn't speak the same language. | 16:16 |
| lbt | also fiferboy, http://blog.morpheuz.cc/31/08/2009/tokamak-3/ | 16:17 |
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| lbt | morpheus is having issues with "problems that we’re facing with the raster engine on embedded devices. " | 16:17 |
| lbt | I can't find the git commit that resolved this for us | 16:17 |
| RST38bis | SpeedEvil: Sometimes, although I think suits finally understood that it does not always work out | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38bis: yeah - hopefully that's changing somewhat. many disasters with outsourcing. | 16:18 |
| derf | As long as it's cheap, they'll keep trying. | 16:18 |
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| Khertan_ | http://wiki.maemo.org/User_talk:Khertan <<< what is this talk page ? | 16:18 |
| derf | Most people are secretly convinced that any job they don't understand how to do is "easy". | 16:19 |
| zerojay | It's where we make fun of you. ;) | 16:19 |
| Khertan_ | derf: < of course ! | 16:19 |
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| dneary | VDVsx: Do you know if baloo is available for a quick chin-wag now? | 16:20 |
| dneary | X-Fade: We'll talk about it with baloo & VDVsx | 16:20 |
| dneary | X-Fade: I'm only concerned that a working session for 5 to 10 people will get lost in a big room | 16:20 |
| dneary | Or a session which would be useful with 5 people will end up being useless with 30 | 16:20 |
| X-Fade | dneary: That is why I requested the small room. | 16:21 |
| VDVsx | dneary, we've a small one | 16:21 |
| X-Fade | dneary: round-tables should be done in small rooms. | 16:21 |
| dneary | By "Round-table", you mean BOF, I assume? | 16:21 |
| dneary | You don't mean having a moderator & panel discussion? | 16:21 |
| msh_ | huh. is user/network or user/communication right for a fremantle ssh package...? | 16:21 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Just throw your opinions on the able kind of session. | 16:21 |
| dneary | X-Fade: Right now, I am wondering what kind of session you have in mind | 16:22 |
| dneary | Thus the questions :) | 16:22 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Check the submissions ;) | 16:22 |
| VDVsx | dneary, BOF, working session, I guess | 16:22 |
| dneary | lbt: You left the beagleboard off the list of devices | 16:23 |
| Khertan_ | X-Fade: about "Publishing your software through maemo.org" session, did you will talk also about onboard possibilities ? | 16:23 |
| wazd | reheya all | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_: no ;) | 16:23 |
| X-Fade | dneary: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Submissions#Extras.2Fautobuilder.2Finterfaces_round-table | 16:23 |
| Khertan_ | ahha :) | 16:23 |
| wazd | took a nap, life is beautiful :) | 16:23 |
| dneary | VDVsx: So the QtTracker presentation got added to the schedule, then removesd | 16:23 |
| dneary | ??? | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_: Just an overview of the services we offer and how you should publish your software through maemo.org | 16:24 |
| Khertan_ | X-Fade: ok | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_: Just to give a short overview, so new developers get the general picture. | 16:24 |
| dneary | X-Fade: The questions stand - who do you expect to be there? How many people? What do you understand by round-table? | 16:24 |
| Khertan_ | at least me :) | 16:25 |
| VDVsx | dneary, dneary, did you checked the mails ?, as I said, the speaker hijacked the slot :) | 16:25 |
| VDVsx | dneary, like Jussi did ;) | 16:25 |
| X-Fade | dneary: < 20 people, developers using our services. "What do we have planned, what would you like us to add" | 16:25 |
| dneary | VDVsx: I don't think you realise how much email I came back to after the holidays :) Was it this week? Last week? | 16:25 |
| dneary | X-Fade: OK - so very much a BOF then | 16:26 |
| RST38bis | heya wazd | 16:26 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Call it what you want ;) | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | dneary, hehe, 1 min | 16:26 |
| dneary | X-Fade: It's not the name that I'm wondering about | 16:26 |
| dneary | I am perhaps being unclear | 16:26 |
| dneary | How will the session work? | 16:27 |
| lbt | dneary: quite right | 16:27 |
| VDVsx | dneary, subject: Maemo Summit proposal - Managing metadata by accessing Tracker with QtTracker | 16:27 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, Aug 17 | 16:27 |
| dneary | Will there be 1 or 2 or 3 people running a presentation and extended Q&A? | 16:27 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Short introduction, then brainsorm? | 16:27 |
| dneary | Or will everyone be sitting in a circle with a facilitator, having a planning discussion? | 16:27 |
| dneary | Or will 3 or 4 people be doing most of the talking? | 16:28 |
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| X-Fade | dneary: Like I said. Short introduction by the organizers, then discussion? | 16:28 |
| dneary | ok | 16:29 |
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| MaceN8x0 | aww | 16:31 |
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| VDVsx | dneary, it seems ok for me, since we have the required conditions for the session | 16:31 |
| VDVsx | the special "activities room" is that one: http://www.westergasfabriek.nl/english/engels_zalen_detail.php?detail=453 | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: Well it is a square table, but hey.. | 16:34 |
| VDVsx | lol | 16:34 |
| dneary | Meeting started | 16:34 |
| wazd | I have a breakthru community idea but I need a coder for that :D | 16:36 |
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| wazd | well, mabe not 100% breaktru but cool anyway :) | 16:37 |
| VDVsx | wazd, I can code for you , 150€/hour :P | 16:38 |
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| VDVsx | kidding | 16:39 |
| wazd | VDVsx: well, that's for web, can you do something like simple php/js?) | 16:40 |
| VDVsx | wazd, not skilled in that area ;) | 16:41 |
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| wazd | I was thinking bout one centralized place for all maemo designers to receive requests for help and publish (or sell) their small stuff like themes of icons or whatever | 16:41 |
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| Khertan_ | please define "breakthru community" | 16:42 |
| Mortah | Jaffa you might like this: http://thinkature.com/ | 16:42 |
| lcuk | supplying little hammers with the new device | 16:42 |
| wazd | Khertan: breakthru community *idea* ;) | 16:42 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: if you continue ... i ll come with mine to implement you the developper programms :) | 16:43 |
| * lcuk has spent the last 5 years on an idea. 18 motnhs of coding later and its only just starting to get close to what i hoped it would be | 16:43 | |
| Meizirkki | wazd, whasn't this pic made by you? http://www.concept-phones.com/nokia/nokia-e900-concept-business-meets-touchscreen/ | 16:43 |
| lcuk | :O kherton | 16:43 |
| jrocha | lizardo, hi | 16:43 |
| wazd | what ya think chaps, worth trying to raise OSS design level to the new level?) | 16:44 |
| Khertan_ | lol | 16:44 |
| wazd | Meizirkki: elouel :D | 16:44 |
| Mortah | lcuk, what you working on? | 16:44 |
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| lcuk | Mortah, you first | 16:46 |
| lcuk | jaffa thinks you work in a model agency | 16:47 |
| lcuk | or was jesting | 16:47 |
| Mortah | kind of :P | 16:47 |
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| Mortah | i really need to turn on nick highlighting | 16:47 |
| lcuk | yeah, but it was my fault too | 16:47 |
| lcuk | you just posted you were goin for lunch | 16:47 |
| lcuk | i have been writing my liqbase app for a while | 16:47 |
| lcuk | lol, | 16:47 |
| lcuk | this is probably the most important vide | 16:48 |
| lcuk | o | 16:48 |
| lcuk | to watch :) | 16:48 |
| lcuk | where i show my zooming 3d desktop on n810 | 16:48 |
| lcuk | in february this year :) | 16:48 |
| Khertan_ | wazd: i like the leak of y key ... | 16:49 |
| Mortah | winner, found the option :) | 16:49 |
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| Khertan_ | wazd: specially when some website present your fake as the next e900 from their secret sources ... lol | 16:49 |
| wazd | Khertan: yeah, everybody seems to be pretty excited bout that too :D | 16:49 |
| wazd | Khertan: it's a feature :D | 16:50 |
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| Khertan_ | héhé ... i like it | 16:50 |
| Khertan_ | it let's some space for more important key ... the tab ! | 16:50 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 16:50 |
| Mortah | short version: We get people to rate models. We then present this information to modelling agencies to make the scouting process more efficient | 16:50 |
| lcuk | khertan / wazd, which? | 16:50 |
| wazd | so, bach to designer headquaters | 16:50 |
| Khertan_ | should be a interesting job to be paid for rating model ... :) | 16:50 |
| wazd | back | 16:50 |
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| lcuk | mortah, i find your ideas intruiging and wish to subscribe to your newsletter | 16:51 |
| wazd | lcuk: which what?) | 16:51 |
| lizardo | jrocha: hi | 16:51 |
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| Khertan_ | lcuk: http://www.concept-phones.com/nokia/nokia-e900-concept-business-meets-touchscreen/ | 16:51 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 16:51 |
| lcuk | bbl | 16:51 |
| Mortah | lcuk, if you want to look at people: http://apps.facebook.com/sonnetmodels | 16:51 |
| jrocha | lizardo, regarding the python bindings, there are some things I find to be odd | 16:52 |
| Mortah | bleh, http://apps.facebook.com/sonnetmodels/vote.php (and i've just seen you go :P) | 16:52 |
| wazd | Khertan: I love how they refer to another blog that's not an author :) | 16:52 |
| jrocha | lizardo, e.g. why are the hildon sizes like gtk.HILDON_SIZE_AUTO_HEIGHT instead of hildon.SIZE_AUTO_HEIGHT | 16:52 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: this is mostly because in C, HILDON_SIZE_AUTO_HEIGHT is defined in gtkenums.h AFAIK , so the binding generator clones the behaviour | 16:54 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: we can override that, but then it will diverge from the C API... | 16:55 |
| jrocha | lizardo, I see. I don't know if you should override or not but it is weird to me to use it the way they are now | 16:56 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, because I assume the hildon sizes belong to hildon, so, they should be used from that package | 16:57 |
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| jrocha | lizardo, btw, do you know when will the app menu get_items bug I submitted last week be solved and available? | 17:02 |
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| lizardo | jrocha: no idea, sorry :/ it depends on the priority for the other open bugs ... but hopefully in the following 2 weeks or so | 17:05 |
| jrocha | lizardo, ok | 17:06 |
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| RST38bis | This document is available only to registered ARM customers. Click here ARM Architecture Reference Manual ARMv7-A and ARMv7R request to register and download this document. | 17:10 |
| RST38bis | WTF? | 17:10 |
| lardman | yep | 17:11 |
| lardman | what are you looking for? | 17:12 |
| RST38bis | I.e. I cannot see the instruction set? | 17:12 |
| * RST38bis was looking for the instruction set description | 17:12 | |
| lardman | hmm, I thought that was available | 17:12 |
| RST38bis | apparently not =( | 17:12 |
| lardman | I have a copy somewhere if not, hang on let me see if I can find it | 17:13 |
| RST38bis | quick ref card is available | 17:13 |
| lardman | tried here?: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp | 17:13 |
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| RST38bis | lardman: Yes, these do not seem to contain the description of the instruction set (with encodings etc) | 17:15 |
| RST38bis | lardman: timing information is there though | 17:15 |
| lardman | hmm, I thought there was a list of instructions there too | 17:16 |
| lardman | then again they change the contents every 5 minutes | 17:16 |
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| lardman | http://www.arm.com/miscPDFs/14128.pdf ? | 17:19 |
| lardman | bit old, there was a newer one on the Japanese site, in Japanese though | 17:20 |
| lardman | but the basics will be the same, and that technical reference has the extended instructions and Thumb stuff listed | 17:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Googling can often pull up datasheets that are not on makers siteds | 17:22 |
| javispedro | the new arm documentation site sucks | 17:22 |
| lardman | do you fancy sending an email about the GPS to the bugtracker? | 17:22 |
| lardman | javispedro: what's new?! | 17:23 |
| lardman | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2878 | 17:23 |
| javispedro | "new" as in "a year old" ;) | 17:23 |
| lardman | yep | 17:23 |
| lardman | at least it's easier to browse than the pdfs | 17:23 |
| javispedro | but still not old enough so that all links pointing to the older one are dropped from google | 17:23 |
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| wazd | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=319519 | 17:24 |
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| * javispedro thinks we're not going to see gvm for n900 | 17:27 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | Palm have their own OMAP device now :) | 17:28 |
| javispedro | GVM was not made by Palm | 17:28 |
| tank-man | theres always POSE (palm os emu) | 17:28 |
| javispedro | POSE is an enu, GVM was a VM. | 17:29 |
| javispedro | *emu. | 17:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Oh, excuse my ignorance then, I've always assumed ACCESS and Palm were in on it together | 17:29 |
| Khertan_ | gvm was made by Palm | 17:29 |
| Khertan_ | at least ... Palm Software | 17:29 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 17:29 |
| * ccooke wonders how many people here plan to pre-order the n900 | 17:29 | |
| javispedro | GVM was made by Access. | 17:29 |
| Khertan_ | which was bought by Access | 17:29 |
| javispedro | nope, they're totally independent. | 17:29 |
| javispedro | the only thing Palm and Access have in common is that they both share a license to the PalmOS5 source code. | 17:30 |
| Khertan_ | are you sure ? it s seems that the dev for Garnet VM was started by Palm Softwares ... | 17:30 |
| javispedro | Palm Software is PalmSource, which is Access. | 17:30 |
| Khertan_ | javispedro: Access didn't share a licence ... they have the system right | 17:31 |
| javispedro | yes, Access owns it. | 17:31 |
| Khertan_ | javispedro: true ... PalmSoftware is PalmSource which is Access | 17:31 |
| javispedro | (I'm sure external viewers are now laughing at how a good OS can be literally ripped off and divided in a few companies) | 17:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Either way, I'm not fussed. I hardly used GVM on my tablets and StyleTap was hardly ever used on my Pocket PC either. | 17:32 |
| Khertan_ | which OS ... Cobalt ? :) | 17:32 |
| javispedro | hehe :) | 17:32 |
| javispedro | Cobalt is Android. | 17:32 |
| javispedro | astonished? :) | 17:32 |
| RST38h | Anyone knows how Nokia batteries are named? I.e. what letters and digits in a battery name mean? | 17:34 |
| RST38h | moo, javis | 17:34 |
| javispedro | hi rst | 17:34 |
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| wazd | RST38h: you think nokia has logic in it's product line names? :D | 17:35 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, yeah qwerty, I too no longer use it too much. Just for the nostalgic touch. | 17:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: battery names sound logical enough | 17:35 |
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| wazd | RST38h: you can't tell for sure, what battery is larger, 4L or 5P :) | 17:36 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: lol. The one Palm Pilot that I ever owned (a really old model, used a serial port on its sync cradle) got smashed :) | 17:36 |
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| javispedro | evil, I knew you were evil too. | 17:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | What? How was I meant to know that slippery fingers and a tiled floor didn't go well... | 17:38 |
| javispedro | naaaaaaaah I don't listen | 17:38 |
| javispedro | evil!! | 17:38 |
| *** qwerty12_N810 is now known as EvilQwerty | 17:38 | |
| lcuk | omg qwerty, you finally hit puberty and grew a tash! | 17:39 |
| javispedro | lol :D | 17:39 |
| EvilQwerty | Silence, puny lcuk. | 17:39 |
| javispedro | EvilQwerty, the Pilot smasher. | 17:40 |
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| lcuk | o_O | 17:40 |
| wazd | http://www.oobject.com/category/12-awful-guis/ | 17:40 |
| javispedro | nightmare of nokians, or prototype-holders alike. he'll come while you're sleeping, grab your rover prototypes... then he'll smash them!! | 17:40 |
| lcuk | filematrix rocks! | 17:41 |
| RST38h | wazd: all look about the same | 17:41 |
| EvilQwerty | Where's PalmOS on that list? :( | 17:41 |
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| lcuk | javispedro, i dont think he will smash em | 17:41 |
| javispedro | wazd, saying sugar is awful is a bit... | 17:42 |
| javispedro | hm. | 17:42 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, filematrix is a winner for sure :D | 17:42 |
| RST38h | javis: why smash 'em when you can steal 'em? | 17:42 |
| RST38h | wazd: I meant batteries :) | 17:42 |
| wazd | RST38h: oh :) | 17:42 |
| VDVsx | sad that one of the biggest open source advocates of my country think that way :( : http://blog.1407.org/2009/09/01/nokias-free-software-bullshit-and-insults-in-maemo/ | 17:42 |
| RST38h | wazd: I knew a guy who defended dissertation on GUIs such as used in filematrix | 17:43 |
| Khertan_ | to the elaborate work of Apple’s iPhone <<< hum ... the things without copy paste ... | 17:43 |
| EvilQwerty | VDVsx: http://maemo.org/2009/09/01/Portugals-open-source-advocate-full-of-bollocks/ | 17:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: his UI was way simpler though, basically showing directories and files as areas inside parent directory areas | 17:43 |
| Khertan_ | when it s start like that ... i assume the rest is without interest | 17:43 |
| RST38h | wazd: with fluid scaling and scrolling, works like a charm | 17:43 |
| VDVsx | EvilQwerty, heheh | 17:44 |
| lopz | hi | 17:44 |
| javispedro | EvilQwerty, 404. yet another evil act. | 17:44 |
| EvilQwerty | VDVsx: out of curiosity, do you still use your Freerunner? :) | 17:45 |
| EvilQwerty | javispedro: muahahahahaha | 17:45 |
| VDVsx | EvilQwerty, only for coding a bit, from time to time | 17:45 |
| VDVsx | never used it as a phone | 17:45 |
| RST38h | wazd: well I am glad Sun's OpenWindows made it into the list =) | 17:45 |
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| EvilQwerty | VDVsx: Ah | 17:45 |
| Sallen | Hi all | 17:45 |
| jeremiah | The guy has some points though - software patents suck. | 17:46 |
| GiantTalkingCow | So, which GUI that you've run across do you each think was the worst? | 17:46 |
| VDVsx | wazd, hiss, I used #2 a lot :P | 17:46 |
| Sallen | Can anyone answer me this: is it possible to configure the Application Manager to use the external memory card to install software or use it in some way so that it doesn't eat up all the space in the internal disk? | 17:47 |
| EvilQwerty | dosshell | 17:47 |
| RST38h | Sallen: No. | 17:47 |
| javispedro | EvilQwerty, I want the link. So please provide it for me. :@ | 17:47 |
| Sallen | Ook | 17:47 |
| RST38h | Has ANYONE ever used Freerunner as a phone? | 17:47 |
| VDVsx | that guy^ use | 17:48 |
| VDVsx | at least he says so | 17:48 |
| GiantTalkingCow | RST38h: No, no one. And I don't just mean no one in this channel, I mean no one. Ever. | 17:48 |
| Sallen | Then the N810 is pretty limited in space, what options do I have? | 17:48 |
| EvilQwerty | javispedro: For that display of anger, I force you to smash your dead Palm | 17:48 |
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| * javispedro , in an attemp to find that link, tries to google the phrase "Advocate full of bollocks". But receives lots of hits :( | 17:49 | |
| RST38h | Then what the hell was the point of Freerunner??? | 17:49 |
| EvilQwerty | Sallen: | 17:49 |
| EvilQwerty | ~boot-sd | 17:49 |
| infobot | from memory, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card | 17:49 |
| GiantTalkingCow | RST38h: Hype. | 17:49 |
| RST38h | Sallen: You can delete some stuff. | 17:49 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, see above | 17:49 |
| VDVsx | :P | 17:49 |
| javispedro | http://maemo.org/2009/09/01/Portugals-open-source-advocate-full-of-bollocks/ does not work here :( | 17:50 |
| jeremiah | The OpenMoko people are coming out with something called the Nano Note this fall | 17:50 |
| Sallen | interesting | 17:50 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, mine: http://blog.1407.org/2009/09/01/nokias-free-software-bullshit-and-insults-in-maemo/ | 17:50 |
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| EvilQwerty | javispedro: try replacing it with the Spanish equivalent of "bollocks" | 17:50 |
| Sallen | Is it possible to use the sd in the same manner you use different disk partitions for /boot or /usr in "regular" linux? | 17:50 |
| jeremiah | But most of the people I know with Freerunners just use them as paperweights, bucause they are bricks. | 17:50 |
| javispedro | VDVsx: yeah, but I though qwerty was talking about a reply | 17:50 |
| * lcuk likes evilqwerty more than the regular one | 17:51 | |
| lcuk | because you just KNOW hes actually having to try really hard to be evil | 17:51 |
| * VDVsx too | 17:51 | |
| nomis | what is evilquerty? | 17:51 |
| EvilQwerty | Can't even spell qwerty? Take a cold shower. | 17:51 |
| javispedro | the evil mastermind behind the Maemo HAM App Store. | 17:51 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: It's not quite a brick anymore. | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: SHR is moderately functional. | 17:52 |
| jeremiah | oh good. :) | 17:52 |
| RST38h | Sallen: It is possible to boot from SD and then install stuff to SD. But it has got some consequences too. | 17:52 |
| VDVsx | coufh coufh | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: But OM-corporate had the _most_broken_ idea of interaction with the community possible. | 17:52 |
| RST38h | jeremiah; OpenMoko people are no different from Pandora people as far as I am concerned | 17:52 |
| nomis | ah, heh :) | 17:52 |
| Sallen | RST38h: The problem is my SD is 1GB, so I suppose I would have the same space issues... | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: shipping hardware at least. | 17:52 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: Sorry to hear that. | 17:53 |
| RST38h | javis: I think you are looking for Bruce Perens | 17:53 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: They have a long way to go before they get their reputation back, that's for sure. | 17:53 |
| RST38h | Sallen: Your internal / partition is 256MB | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: IMO - they could have had a functional software stack - maybe not very pretty - two yearsish ago. | 17:53 |
| lcuk | maemo HAM mmmmmmm almost bacon | 17:53 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: I saw a freerunner run debian at this years FOSDEM | 17:54 |
| Sallen | RST38h: Hehe... | 17:54 |
| jeremiah | So I had high hopes | 17:54 |
| * lcuk will release liqbacon soon | 17:54 | |
| Sallen | RST38h: Ok, thanks, I will look into SD booting :) | 17:54 |
| VDVsx | hihihihi "So yeah, Nokia N900 is an impressive device. It rocks as a device, but it sinks like a rock in terms of user’s software freedom!" | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: but they were focussed on making it pretty - and jumped UI ships abandoning large chunks of code several times. It was mostly functional as a phone in 2007. It's only really gotten back to that state early this year - with several critical hardware bugs resolved. | 17:54 |
| jeremiah | I think a totally free phone is harder than people think. | 17:54 |
| VDVsx | me too | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: plus - it's still shipping - and you can have schematics. | 17:55 |
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| lardman | VDVsx: where did that pearl come from? | 17:55 |
| Sallen | RST38h: What about the internal memory card (2Gb). What is it used for? | 17:55 |
| VDVsx | lardman, http://blog.1407.org/2009/09/01/nokias-free-software-bullshit-and-insults-in-maemo/ | 17:55 |
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| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: Open schematics are the bomb. | 17:55 |
| javispedro | Sallen, FAT32 partition. But you can repartition to ext3 and boot from it. | 17:55 |
| javispedro | *ext2. | 17:55 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: Maybe that is where the Qi Note is getting its' mojo | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: In some ways. In others they are irrelevant. You can't go schematic->hardware without several iterations of a PCB costing >$500 each typically. | 17:56 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: and economies of scale don't really start to kick in until >>1K | 17:56 |
| jeremiah | interesting. | 17:57 |
| Sallen | javispedro: OK, so the system is installed in the internal 256MB disk? The internal 2GB disk has 1.6GB occupied. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: as actual hardware documentation - they are awesome. | 17:57 |
| javispedro | Sallen, Maps. | 17:57 |
| Sallen | facepalm | 17:57 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: how hard would it be to build a phone from parts? | 17:57 |
| jeremiah | So you think it can be done with COTS? | 17:57 |
| javispedro | either you move them to the external sd before partition, or you install OS to the external sd instead. | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: Define parts. Do you mean modules like gumstick - ... | 17:57 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: Yeah, I mean an ugly phone that works. | 17:58 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: If so - it's not _that_ hard - you end up at - when I last added it up - $800 to get something broadly similar to freerunner specs at twice the weight and volume. | 17:58 |
| Sallen | javispedro: Can't I just obliterate them? | 17:58 |
| javispedro | Sallen, of course, backup them just in case you ever change opinion. | 17:58 |
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| Sallen | javispedro: Fine, thanks! | 17:59 |
| jeremiah | cool | 17:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: Making it from components that you put on a custom PCB brings a whole new level of pain - many phone vendors simply won't sell you components in under 100K - so you're restricted to end-of-life stuff and the secondary market for some stuff. | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Sallen: You can delete everything (usually Maps data) off the internal 2GB card and boot from it | 18:00 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: The benefit is that you can shrink the volume lots - but each revision will take maybe $1K - and you need over 10 probably unless you're lucky. | 18:00 |
| RST38h | Sallen: Although there are also consequences | 18:00 |
| jeremiah | Do you think the remnants of OpenMoko can overcome those hurdles? | 18:00 |
| lcuk | rockets go to the moon on ancient equipment that the secondary market has given up as crap | 18:00 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: No. | 18:00 |
| julianoliver | agreed | 18:00 |
| lcuk | well, not the moon | 18:00 |
| lcuk | but you get the idea | 18:00 |
| Sallen | RST38h please, proceed | 18:00 |
| jeremiah | It looks unlikely. | 18:00 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: Yeah, but would you want to ride in one? | 18:01 |
| lcuk | hell yeah! | 18:01 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: It's not impossible. There are some ways round it - trade some volume for ultimate achievable price and availability - for example - you don't build your modem onto the PCB - you buy a module for maybe 5* the price of the parts. | 18:01 |
| lcuk | intergalactic graffiti for me | 18:01 |
| jeremiah | lcuk is now known as fireball | 18:01 |
| lcuk | rocket trails around the sky etc | 18:01 |
| * lcuk is a quanta | 18:01 | |
| RST38h | Sallen: Well, you lose your maps data, you increase the chance of semi-bricking the device, and the next system update from Nokia (if it ever comes) will probably fail | 18:01 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: But things like ofono would sorta make that route worthless | 18:02 |
| * VDVsx obligates lcuk to use a OM phone for a entire month | 18:02 | |
| jeremiah | I mean if I had a computer with ofono I can plug in a dongle and away I go | 18:02 |
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| lcuk | hell i might actually make it work | 18:02 |
| jeremiah | So why do I need a "phone" | 18:02 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil,jeremiah: Folks, you are discussing it as if it were a technical problem | 18:02 |
| julianoliver | SpeedEvil: but who would actually buy the device, even at a low price? it still needs to be marketed. | 18:02 |
| Khertan_ | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3155/2891773166_e4465623e8.jpg <<< i just found my photo with a google search on " one hand use n810" | 18:02 |
| Khertan_ | lol | 18:02 |
| RST38h | It has nothign to do with technology. It has everything to do with logistics and business skills | 18:02 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, there is a business / social problem too. :) | 18:02 |
| Khertan_ | why every one complain about landscape cannot be used with one hand on n900 | 18:03 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan_: Google tracks you, so it favours your links. | 18:03 |
| jeremiah | Khertan_: Nice photo! | 18:03 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: You start a business to make money. What was OpenMoko folks' reason to start this crap? | 18:03 |
| Khertan_ | if i can do it with many beers ... and a n810 every one can do it with an n900 | 18:03 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Because they certainly weren't going to make money from it | 18:03 |
| julianoliver | secondly OpenMoko needs an application ecology around it for it to be vaguely appealing for customers. | 18:03 |
| jeremiah | well, I think you can make money from a completely open phone | 18:03 |
| jeremiah | julianoliver: Yup | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: It _could_ have taken off - if they diddn't drop the ball in a pile of shit and start digging it out with a teaspoon. | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: (where taken off is sales of a few 10s of K's) | 18:04 |
| lardman | they spent too much time changing the ui and not enough getting it working | 18:04 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, yeah, but some technical problems arise | 18:04 |
| lardman | and it was too large | 18:04 |
| lcuk | theres a tewaspoon on the freerunner? | 18:04 |
| jeremiah | I mean Nokia is almost there, so why couldn't OpenMoki have done it? | 18:04 |
| RST38h | jeremiah; You can make money form a phone, if people (not just geeks) buy it in huge numbers and if it costs THEM way more than it costs YOU to make | 18:04 |
| Sallen | RST38h I see | 18:04 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, that is the model I think they could have had | 18:04 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: The "technical" problem is finding the right Chinese and motivating them properly | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: Nokia had perhaps a thousand times the dev budget. | 18:04 |
| julianoliver | lardman: I think they took a "build it and they will come" approach, which works only in the total absense of competitors. | 18:04 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: No doubt. | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: And they are nokia. | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: Nokia goes to a component supplier - and they piss themselves with eagerness. | 18:05 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Well, if that is the model, then they tried implementing it totally wrong | 18:05 |
| Khertan_ | x-fade ... yes google track me ... look at khertan + some other word in google image search is really funny | 18:05 |
| jeremiah | But being Nokia, I think they have made something pretty amazing and pretty open | 18:05 |
| jeremiah | But I guess that is why we are all here. | 18:05 |
| VDVsx | agreed | 18:05 |
| * javispedro wonders if Nokia making the first three NIT models non-phones was part of the masterplan. | 18:05 | |
| jeremiah | :] | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: A random company goes to a component supplier with promises to buy 5K components - and they get told to go away. | 18:05 |
| Myrtti | javispedro: it was | 18:05 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: You implement it by going to Taiwan, finding the cheap phone manufacturer you like | 18:05 |
| julianoliver | the N900 has captured imagination of more than just the handheld geek crowd also. | 18:05 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Moses will do nicely, afaik | 18:05 |
| Khertan_ | javispedro: i'm sure that it was the master plan | 18:05 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: Well, of course, but the cost of parts has dropped substantially. | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: Irrelevant. | 18:06 |
| Khertan_ | javispedro: and moore have said : " and they have a plan " | 18:06 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: You sit down with them and come up with a design for a feature phone that will be cheap and universally likeable | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: You cannot buy many cellphone parts in quantities of under 100K or so. | 18:06 |
| Khertan_ | " and they have a plan " Copyright BattleStar Galactica :) | 18:06 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: Really? That seems unlikely somehow | 18:06 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: You pay them for the first batch of phones and control the quality of manufacturing really closely. This is very exhausting by the way. | 18:06 |
| jeremiah | But I have never tried. :P | 18:06 |
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| jeremiah | RST38h: I am exhausted just thinking about it. =] | 18:07 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: For the software, you hire a bunch of East Europeans, sit down with them, fifure out what you want, then control the process very closely | 18:07 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Scream at them, etc | 18:07 |
| Khertan_ | RST38h: and see that nothing is working | 18:07 |
| javispedro | the "figure out what you want" being the hardest part. | 18:07 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: Unfortunately, it's not. They spend the same effort supporting Nokia or Apple - who buy 10M chips - as teenyvendor - that buys 5K. One makes them 50K - the other 100M. The support cost is 20K say. It's not hard to see why they won't. | 18:07 |
| julianoliver | bah. cliches | 18:07 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: The software bit is just debian | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Khertan: Oh, it will work. Unless you are an OpenMoko guy | 18:07 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: "just debian" won't make phone calls | 18:08 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Nonsense | 18:08 |
| jeremiah | I've seen it done on the OpenMoko | 18:08 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: you need a suite of basic apps, and they should be usable and likeable | 18:08 |
| jeremiah | likeable? | 18:08 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Returning to my original question: Has anyone used OpenMoko to call people? :) | 18:08 |
| jeremiah | I like the command line | 18:08 |
| jeremiah | Of course. | 18:08 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Likeable by normal people, not you | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Yes - there are several devs using it as a primary phone | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | And no - it's not a user ready device or close to. | 18:09 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: You and other geeks are only considered 3-4 months before release, when you command 2-3 of those Russians, Ukrainans, Poles, Hungarians, etc to come up with SDK and developer docs | 18:09 |
| wazd | http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2009/08/fullscreen-and-portrait-modes-for.html | http://s50.radikal.ru/i130/0909/6f/31f8ce35e8a5.jpg :) | 18:09 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Note that at that point, Eldar Murtazin should already have a sample and like it =) | 18:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: why not rotate the whole desktop? :) | 18:10 |
| VDVsx | mine isn't ready to do call, I've to buzz fix it first, lolol | 18:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, cause you can't :) | 18:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: funny thing, rotating the whole desktop is doable but rotating just one window is not | 18:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: ootb :) | 18:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: because it is a hardware setting on the display controller :) | 18:11 |
| thp | wazd: nice mock-up :) | 18:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's not rotated window, that's just proper widget layout :) | 18:11 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: I don't command any Russians, or Ukrainians | 18:11 |
| SpeedEvil | If OM had had a clue - minor revs to the existing hardware (neo1973) - and concentrated work getting the stack ready would have made a working geek-phone (linux, working dialer, browser, ...) by xmas 2007. | 18:11 |
| wazd | thp: I've used it during my lection in SPb | 18:12 |
| SpeedEvil | (not pretty - but...) | 18:12 |
| wazd | thp: you're thinking in the right way :) | 18:12 |
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| wazd | http://s11.radikal.ru/i183/0909/ea/f8eaa3752154.jpg | 18:13 |
| VDVsx | SpeedEvil, when a phone can't do proper calls, what much we can say | 18:13 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: or Chinese, right? | 18:13 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: So the first step is to find and contact some | 18:13 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: Preferable some whose work you have seen, like it, and whom you can reasonably trust | 18:14 |
| SpeedEvil | VDVsx: It could - march-april 2007. I was using it. | 18:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | VDVsx: Then they decided to change software stacks 2 or 3 times and focus on new hardware that was going to be shiny and wonderful. | 18:14 |
| wazd | thp: btw, bout RSS handler, I can draw fremantle mockup for you, but a bit later, have some dayjob now | 18:14 |
| VDVsx | SpeedEvil, om2007 was soooo slow | 18:14 |
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| VDVsx | SpeedEvil, the gtk+ version | 18:15 |
| SpeedEvil | VDVsx: Sure. Could it have been sped up by 5* from then to xmas - certainly. | 18:15 |
| SpeedEvil | VDVsx: Even if you lost some of the smooth scrolling. | 18:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | Alas this is a rather pointless discussion. | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone got plans for a time-machine? | 18:16 |
| lcuk | dneary | 18:16 |
| VDVsx | maybe Evilqwert | 18:16 |
| VDVsx | y | 18:16 |
| javispedro | I do too, it uses light-speed vibrations. | 18:16 |
| dneary | lcuk: Yes? | 18:16 |
| dneary | lcuk: I'm off - appointment | 18:17 |
| lcuk | sorry, speedevil asked if anyone had a time machine | 18:17 |
| lcuk | you have one! | 18:17 |
| Sallen | RST38h OK, what would happen if I copied the contents of /usr to the internal 2GB card and then specified /usr as its mount point? | 18:17 |
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| Khertan_ | hum ... maybe this -> http://pupnik.de/Gemrb_Screen1_1280.jpg could be playable on n900 | 18:17 |
| Mek | Sallen: you most likely wouldn't be able to boot anymore, as you would need things from /usr before the 2GB card is mounted | 18:17 |
| Captain_Picard | Khertan_: wth?? | 18:18 |
| Captain_Picard | how is taht possible? | 18:18 |
| Captain_Picard | a troll? | 18:18 |
| Sallen | crap | 18:18 |
| thp | wazd: thanks :) i'm currently simply using a touchselector in fremantle | 18:18 |
| Khertan_ | troll yourself ! | 18:18 |
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| Sallen | OK, so I guess I will have to boot from the internal card | 18:19 |
| Sallen | apt-get install e2fsprogs is complaining about unmet dependencies that "will not be installed", hints? | 18:19 |
| lcuk | Captain_Picard, pupnik is resourceful | 18:20 |
| lcuk | it loaded ifaik and ran but do not know the speed | 18:20 |
| ali1234 | those old PC games on handhelds are done by running them in dosbox in vnc on a PC and then using VNC client on the handheld (usually) | 18:21 |
| Sallen | OK, forget about that, didn't read the whole article | 18:21 |
| lcuk | ali1234, | 18:21 |
| lcuk | dosbox on client | 18:21 |
| lcuk | why not just run natively | 18:21 |
| lcuk | pupnik has dosbox for tablet | 18:21 |
| lcuk | and others lol | 18:21 |
| javispedro | (i am the maintainer now btw) | 18:21 |
| lcuk | heh | 18:22 |
| lcuk | passed the sword | 18:22 |
| javispedro | dosbox and snes only ;) | 18:22 |
| Captain_Picard | lcuk: http://pupnik.de/photos/Claudia_CornCob02_sm.html | 18:22 |
| Captain_Picard | extreamly | 18:22 |
| ali1234 | well, there's a video on youtube of someone running WoW that way :) | 18:22 |
| ali1234 | not in dosbox obviously | 18:22 |
| lcuk | Captain_Picard, hahaha you are rummaging around pupniks secret photo stash! | 18:23 |
| RST38h | iRiver came out with a bookreader | 18:23 |
| RST38h | hm | 18:23 |
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| Captain_Picard | what about porn reader? | 18:24 |
| RST38h | it does comics, so manga porn should work | 18:25 |
| RST38h | =) | 18:25 |
| RST38h | In related news "Tetris players found to have greater brain efficiency, thicker cortex and better hair" | 18:25 |
| * javispedro wonders how Opera could think that reusing the same server that does opera mini-like web compression would work for desktop opera 10 | 18:25 | |
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| VDVsx | RST38h, "better hair", wowoow | 18:27 |
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| * RST38h scratches his thicker cortex thoughtfully | 18:27 | |
| * SpeedEvil has wondered about differential proxy compression. | 18:27 | |
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| SpeedEvil | You have a proxy server that has a copy of the devices hundred or two meg cache. It knows the contents of this cache. So it sends only page diffs against this cache if it's useful. | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | For example ebay.com - about 15K compressed - the actual differential content per load is under 0.5K compressed. | 18:29 |
| zeev | Hi, can N900 recognize letters being written on its touchscreen and transform it to text? | 18:29 |
| javispedro | you mean vnc? | 18:29 |
| javispedro | ;) | 18:29 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil^^ | 18:29 |
| RST38h | Speed: And ebay.com with adblocker, 0.1K compressed =) | 18:29 |
| Sallen | RST38h, before I brick my N810 I need to know, is there any way of restoring "factory settings" (ie. fresh system installation)? | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: no. Some tests indicated that browsing ebay forex - you could get 10-20* compression. | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: indeed - perhaps. | 18:30 |
| RST38h | Sallen: Yes, flash it again with the original firmware | 18:30 |
| javispedro | but what you're describing seems vnc. | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: no - http | 18:30 |
| javispedro | ah | 18:30 |
| javispedro | doing http diffs? | 18:30 |
| javispedro | hm. | 18:30 |
| Sallen | RST38h, OK, good. | 18:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Server:WebProxy | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: | 18:30 |
| RST38h | Gentlemen, why don't you just use webpages designed for mobile devices? | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | (writeup, no code) | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: because foo.com doesn't have any | 18:30 |
| RST38h | They work perfectly, you know. Without Opera servers. | 18:31 |
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| RST38h | Speed: Well, then use Google Mobile or some other converter | 18:31 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, some stupid web designers think "designed for mobile devices" means less featured, but with the same amount of ads, shiny graphics, and 500KiB js. | 18:31 |
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| RST38h | javis: Goole or some other converter will cut all this off | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Sure - I think you can get better results. | 18:31 |
| javispedro | Google also belives this. Last time I used their converted they "paginated" pages. | 18:32 |
| RST38h | Because relying on Opera is kinda shaky | 18:32 |
| javispedro | relying on Google is not? ;) | 18:32 |
| RST38h | javis: there are a few other alternatives | 18:32 |
| RST38h | javis: Google is not inside my browser, so it is ok | 18:32 |
| zeev | can N900 recognize letters being written on its touchscreen and transform it to text on fly? | 18:32 |
| javispedro | it will be soon RST38h ;) | 18:32 |
| RST38h | javis: Well, it tried to get there but I killed it in cold blood | 18:33 |
| RST38h | javis: Took some registry editing too | 18:33 |
| Luke-Jr | Sallen: if you *really* brick your N810, there is no going back | 18:33 |
| Luke-Jr | Sallen: but AFAIK nobody has ever actually done it | 18:33 |
| javispedro | i like opera10 tab bar, its height can be configured until it shows only 100px of each web page thumbnail's header. | 18:33 |
| SpeedEvil | The above idea was basically for devices with _slow_ net and ruinously expensive connections - but without reducing the page in any way other than loading images at lower res. | 18:33 |
| javispedro | most of the time, just pngcrushing pngs and recompressing jpegs with a sane (aka non-adobe) compressor already helps., | 18:34 |
| Sallen | Luke-Jr, that's what "brick" stands for ^^ | 18:34 |
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| Luke-Jr | Sallen: to your earlier question, it is possible to move Maemo to an external card, I think. In that case your installs would go to it as well | 18:34 |
| RST38h | qwerty: BTW, any progress on that Quasar thing getting into Extras? Or you are not tracking it? | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: indeed - I was assuming something like that - and progressive jpegs where a click gets anotehr slice of the image. | 18:35 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: It's nothing to do with me :) | 18:35 |
| Luke-Jr | Sallen: usually N810 "bricking" doesn't involve destroying the NOLO bootloader ;) | 18:35 |
| coldboot | My device says the memory card is unformatted or corrupted, but it won't mount when plugged in to a Windows system, and I can't disable extended virtual memory, because it says there is no internal card. | 18:35 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Ok =) | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | JTAG FTW. | 18:35 |
| RST38h | qwerty: You are the mighty packager though, so it may have something to do with you ;) | 18:36 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: that involves disassembly ;) | 18:36 |
| javispedro | lol, opera10 breaks tmo | 18:36 |
| Sallen | Luke-Jr, I'm trying to follow the wiki instructions to install the system in the internal 2GB card, but I can't install e2fsprogs, even after adding the devel-extras repository. It complains about unmet dependencies. | 18:36 |
| Luke-Jr | Sallen: oh well, N810 hasn't actually been supported by Maemo for a while so who knows | 18:37 |
| javispedro | Sallen, which deps? | 18:37 |
| fiferboy_ | coldboot: Your internal memory? | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Can anyone supply me with straces of the GPS in the n900 getting a lock and tracking for a few hours? To look at decoding the GPS protocol as a first step to seeing if reverse engineering the blob looks plausible? | 18:38 |
| paperclip1 | If I wanted to start French localization, should I be working from the Mer-l10n repo on Gitorious? Also, who should I contact about getting the relevant tasks added to the backlog? | 18:38 |
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| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: is it confirmed N900 GPS is a blob? | 18:38 |
| Sallen | javispedro: e2fslibs, libblkid1, libcomerr2, libss2, libuuid1 and scim-gtk2-immodule | 18:38 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: Whatever mmc2 is supposed to be. | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: I personally - from what I've heard of it - am convinced. | 18:39 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: giving up on N810? | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: CPU usage is right - FPU usage is right - ... | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: ? | 18:39 |
| fiferboy_ | coldboot: That is internal. Can you see the internal memory in the file manager? | 18:39 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, that was for N810 | 18:39 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: "right" for what? | 18:39 |
| javispedro | I don't even know if N900 uses the same TI gps. | 18:39 |
| Luke-Jr | javispedro: pretty sure it doesn't | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Oh - I thought the discussion a few nights ago was the n900 | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 18:40 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: this might be it http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/dbg/gpsdriver.dump.bz2 | 18:40 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, it is the n810 the one with the ugly nearly nonfuncctional gpsdriver. | 18:40 |
| javispedro | hopefully, nokia has done something to fix it. | 18:40 |
| javispedro | in the n900. | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: is that the n900 - or the n810? | 18:40 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: N810 | 18:40 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: N900 is not even shipping yet AFAIK | 18:40 |
| timeless_mbp | Luke-Jr: sounds about right | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I assumed you'd had access to a prototype. | 18:41 |
| Luke-Jr | timeless_mbp: ? | 18:41 |
| timeless_mbp | people w/ access to protos aren't allowed to dump software | 18:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | that'd be a violation of either an employment contract or an NDA | 18:41 |
| timeless_mbp | either of which would be a pretty bad idea | 18:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Do it anyway! | 18:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :) | 18:41 |
| Luke-Jr | timeless_mbp: I'm not sure strace output is covered ;) | 18:41 |
| timeless_mbp | Luke-Jr: did you read the ms w7 rc terms and conditions? | 18:42 |
| Luke-Jr | strace output would be like photos | 18:42 |
| timeless_mbp | it included not posting benchmarks | 18:42 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: Apparently it's mmcblk0p1... | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - the blob CPU usage would be key. | 18:42 |
| timeless_mbp | Luke-Jr: historically, posting photos has been banned until a certain point | 18:42 |
| timeless_mbp | what that certain point is, i'm not always certain, but it has been banned | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I suppose that could be considered a bench. | 18:43 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: ~0.7% with no lock | 18:43 |
| fiferboy__ | coldboot: There is a tool in the file manager to format corrupt cards | 18:43 |
| javispedro | Sallen e2fslibs is built from the same source package as e2fsprogs, so I don't know what are you doing for it to complain. | 18:43 |
| Luke-Jr | on N810 | 18:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: I mean of the 900 - to see if it was. | 18:43 |
| timeless_mbp | fiferboy: you mean the file manager? :) | 18:43 |
| javispedro | Sallen, just enable extras, disable extras-devel, and apt-get install e2fsprogs. | 18:43 |
| Sallen | javispedro, 1 sec | 18:43 |
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| Luke-Jr | timeless_mbp: can you mention if N900 requires a blob? | 18:44 |
| Luke-Jr | for GPS | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't know and don't want to look | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't know if i could mention, but i really don't care | 18:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i have other things to do, like read my corporate mail, which might include new rules about what i can / can't say :) | 18:44 |
| Luke-Jr | what if it says you can't talk about the new rules? ;) | 18:45 |
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| Luke-Jr | then you couldn't even say "I can't answer that" XD | 18:45 |
| javispedro | well, him not talking about it would mean we would find out is it about "a new rule", so that'd logic failure. | 18:46 |
| Luke-Jr | ;) | 18:47 |
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| Luke-Jr | err | 18:47 |
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| Luke-Jr | python-updater thinks gps5300driver depends on Python 2.5 :/ | 18:47 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: The stupid tool says it's formatting, then says nothing, and it's not formatted. | 18:48 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: And it won't format unless the card is mounted. | 18:48 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Try going to the memory section of the control panel and resizing or removing swap | 18:48 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: I mounted it manually in ssh. | 18:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: can you delete the state files, and make a strace (strace -s 9999 ...) of the GPS getting a lock? | 18:48 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: It won't let me do anything, it says the card is corrupted. | 18:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: Ideally and tracking for an hourish. | 18:48 |
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| fiferboy | coldboot: Maybe remove the .swap file on the card and reboot? | 18:48 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: I think I'll be lucky to get a lock these days | 18:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: that bad? | 18:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: even outside? | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | yeah pretty bad | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | it used to work semi-decent | 18:49 |
| javispedro | do you delete the nvd_data file regularly? | 18:49 |
| Luke-Jr | javispedro: no | 18:49 |
| Captain_Picard | so anyone got any new navigation software for maemo 5! | 18:50 |
| javispedro | what's maemo 5? I don't know anything about it. it's not even released. | 18:50 |
| Sallen | javispedro, OK, I did what you said, but still couldn't, so I grabbed the .deb file manually and opened it in Application Manager. According to it, it is "Incompatible application package". | 18:50 |
| javispedro | so don't do it. | 18:50 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: I think teh bigger problem would be saving the data fast enough | 18:50 |
| Captain_Picard | javispedro: maemo 6! | 18:51 |
| javispedro | Sallen, can you do apt-get search e2fs ? | 18:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Luke-Jr: why? It should be well under a few K a second. | 18:51 |
| javispedro | *apt-cache search e2fs | 18:51 |
| Luke-Jr | SpeedEvil: remind me again when I'm done with python-updater ;) | 18:51 |
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| Sallen | javispedro: e2fslibs, e2gsprogs, e2fsck-static and e2fslibs-dev show up | 18:52 |
| javispedro | engadget talking about resistive screens again. | 18:52 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: This is retarded. It keeps sending me around in circles. | 18:52 |
| javispedro | Sallen, so, what happens when you apt-get install e2fsprogs? | 18:52 |
| Sallen | javispedro a bunch of PreDependency errors | 18:52 |
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| fiferboy | coldboot: I've had this happen once, and eventually got it straigtened out but don't remember exactly how | 18:53 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Have you tried unmounting the card and formating from the terminal | 18:53 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: I deleted .swap, rebooted, .swap is gone. Then I look at memory, it says it has no internal card, then I mount it, says it's corrupted, I try to format the stupid thing in File Manager, and it does nothing like before. | 18:53 |
| Sallen | member:javispedro: e2fslibs, libblkid1, libcomerr2, libss2, libuuid1 and scim-gtk2-immodule | 18:53 |
| javispedro | http://maemo.pastebin.com/pastebin.php can you paste the whole session? | 18:53 |
| javispedro | from the apt-get install call | 18:53 |
| Sallen | ok | 18:54 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: mkfs.vfat /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 18:55 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: Any good? | 18:55 |
| coldboot | fiferboy: Still says it's corrupted or unformatted after a reboot. | 18:56 |
| Sallen | javispedro: http://maemo.pastebin.com/d1fe1cd4d (btw, -f install does not correct the problem) | 18:56 |
| javispedro | you have extras-devel enabled i think | 18:56 |
| Sallen | not any more | 18:56 |
| javispedro | did you apt-get update between? | 18:56 |
| Sallen | I will delete it from the list and update just in case | 18:57 |
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| fiferboy | coldboot: looks like you have to repartition it as well | 18:58 |
| fiferboy | coldboot: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=18043 | 18:58 |
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| javispedro | Sallen, my package version: http://maemo.pastebin.com/d10d65b4f | 18:58 |
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| Sallen | mmmhh | 19:00 |
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| Sallen | javispedro: Maybe I have too many repositories | 19:01 |
| javispedro | Sallen, the usual suggestion is to have tableeter and extras only. | 19:02 |
| Sallen | javispedro, I'm going to clean the list and try again | 19:02 |
| Sallen | javispedro: I have more than 20 repos... I never learn... This is how I break my Debians | 19:03 |
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| Sallen | javispedro, can you pastebin your sources list? | 19:05 |
| javispedro | no (it's the default one) :) | 19:06 |
| javispedro | http://repository.maemo.org/ | 19:06 |
| javispedro | (check that page) | 19:06 |
| Sallen | k :) | 19:06 |
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| javispedro | just grab the maemo extras lines while leaving the tableteer ones intact. | 19:06 |
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| javispedro | lcuk: latest liqbase-playground crashes | 19:09 |
| javispedro | ./liqbase-playground: symbol lookup error: ./liqbase-playground: undefined symbol: liqcell_historystore_historythumb_getfilename | 19:09 |
| javispedro | do I need to clear something? | 19:09 |
| Sallen | javispedro: do I have to enable/disable red pill mode? | 19:11 |
| lcuk | get latest lib | 19:11 |
| lcuk | its in the repo | 19:11 |
| javispedro | Sallen, don't touch it. | 19:11 |
| lcuk | vdv had this i downloaded the source from the repo and the function exists.. | 19:11 |
| lcuk | 3.30 | 19:11 |
| lcuk | for the lib | 19:11 |
| Sallen | OK, so I guess I should disable it | 19:11 |
| lcuk | i havent rechecked personally tho | 19:12 |
| lcuk | so it might be an actual fault lol | 19:12 |
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| javispedro | you kidnapped my calendar lcuk | 19:12 |
| lcuk | no i didnt | 19:12 |
| * mgedmin is curious | 19:12 | |
| javispedro | :) | 19:12 |
| lcuk | just go into the app manager and tick it back on | 19:12 |
| lcuk | anything is removable / installable perminently | 19:12 |
| javispedro | but I can't boot liqbase | 19:12 |
| javispedro | (don't worry, i'll downgrade) | 19:13 |
| mgedmin | if you install openssh-server on a fresh tablet, can you ssh in, or do you have to edit /etc/shadow and replace :!: with :*: there first? | 19:13 |
| lcuk | apt-get install libliqbase | 19:13 |
| lcuk | tell me what ver you have | 19:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | fiferboy: do you happen to be in Fife? | 19:13 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: you can ssh in right away | 19:13 |
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| mgedmin | good | 19:13 |
| Sallen | javispedro, we have a new error! "scim needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it". Just that. | 19:13 |
| RST38h | will be asked for a root password too | 19:13 |
| mgedmin | then it means I ran passwd -l user at some point on mine | 19:13 |
| RST38h | so, once you set it, ssh root@localhost will acr as becomeroot | 19:13 |
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| RST38h | s/acr/act | 19:14 |
| lcuk | javispedro, leave me a pm or post and ill check as soon as i get in | 19:15 |
| javispedro | luck, thanks, i was looking for libliqbase but its libliqbase1 | 19:15 |
| javispedro | it boots now :) | 19:15 |
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| javispedro | hmm.. windowed, thanks | 19:16 |
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| javispedro | Sallen, wathever you do at this point be careful, since you probably pulled scim from somewhere, and may break whatever program used it | 19:18 |
| Sallen | OK | 19:18 |
| Sallen | javispedro, what is scim anyway? | 19:19 |
| javispedro | some kind of input method iirc | 19:19 |
| RST38h | and you need scim to boot from sd? | 19:20 |
| Sallen | RST48h I guess I don't :) | 19:21 |
| javispedro | RST38h, no, he needs to get rid of it to install e2fsprogs in a new kind of dependency hell. | 19:21 |
| Sallen | lol | 19:21 |
| Sallen | OK, I can't remove it either | 19:21 |
| Sallen | Sallen, why would you want Chinese input in your N810 for anyway?? | 19:22 |
| javispedro | hmpf. | 19:22 |
| lcuk | javispedro, errthhhyhfgnvg | 19:22 |
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| Sallen | OK, I can't reinstall it or remove it. What do I do? | 19:22 |
| lcuk | mmm | 19:23 |
| javispedro | backup & reflash ? :) | 19:23 |
| lcuk | javispedro, windowed mode | 19:23 |
| lcuk | does it look/feel ok for you | 19:23 |
| Sallen | I got this thing yesterday... :_| | 19:23 |
| javispedro | yeah, looks good. a bit slower, but I guess that was expected. | 19:23 |
| lcuk | shouldnt be slower | 19:23 |
| lcuk | if theres more on the desktop than original | 19:23 |
| lcuk | yeah it will be | 19:23 |
| lcuk | remove items from the desktop | 19:24 |
| javispedro | Sallen, if you didn't reflash it as soon as you get it, more reason for reflashing it now :) | 19:24 |
| lcuk | go into the manager and tick things from Y to N | 19:24 |
| Sallen | javispedro, good point, there we go | 19:24 |
| lcuk | you can also run anything immediately in the manager (menu..) just by clicking it | 19:24 |
| lcuk | javis, theres a load of new modules in there | 19:24 |
| RST38h | javis: scary shit | 19:24 |
| lcuk | liqflow :) | 19:25 |
| RST38h | javis: I guess that is why I am still running the basic Diablo setup on my tablet :) | 19:25 |
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| Sallen | that was quick | 19:30 |
| javispedro | yeah, it is | 19:30 |
| javispedro | well, gotta go | 19:30 |
| Sallen | ok, thank you for everything! | 19:31 |
| javispedro | np and welcome to maemo :) | 19:31 |
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| Stskeeps | moo | 19:31 |
| Sallen | ty | 19:31 |
| javispedro | moo & bye sts :) | 19:32 |
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| mikkov_ | I may have to visit Flagship store on thursday ;) | 19:44 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | mikkov_: You're doing it wrong. Just find timeless and steal his two N900s :p | 19:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | mikkov_: which store? | 19:45 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, @HEL? | 19:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ping me, i'll join you | 19:45 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: Flagship store is easier to find :) | 19:45 |
| * timeless_mbp wants to see them try to sell / market them | 19:45 | |
| RST38h | Ok, Alvin news from Murtazin: "Alvin, I have it :) looks like square 5800, 32 Gb etc... nothing special except price." | 19:45 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders what their return policy is :) | 19:45 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | mikkov_: "<timeless_mbp> ping me, i'll join you" :D | 19:45 |
| mikkov_ | timeless_mbp: I'll be there when it opens :) | 19:45 |
| timeless_mbp | that's kinda early | 19:46 |
| timeless_mbp | can't you wait until 3 pm or something? :) | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | when is official release again? | 19:46 |
| slonopotamus | oh crap | 19:46 |
| mikkov_ | ok when I wake up | 19:46 |
| timeless_mbp | did someone announce a day it'd actually be available in stores? | 19:46 |
| mikkov_ | nokia.fi says that N900 is on display 3.9 onwards | 19:46 |
| slonopotamus | i'm in train and a man next to me watches movie on his hand watch! | 19:46 |
| slonopotamus | that's insane | 19:47 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: Are you sure it is not Arkanoid? | 19:47 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, absolutely | 19:47 |
| mikkov_ | http://kauppa.nokia.fi/nokia-fi/product.aspx?sku=6958193&culture=fi-FI | 19:47 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: Because it is the only guy I know around here who would do something like this | 19:47 |
| slonopotamus | meh, it really shows movie o_O | 19:48 |
| mikkov_ | timeless_mbp: actually 3pm is more realistic :) | 19:48 |
| qwerty12_N810 | slonopotamus: Then you get these people complaining about N900 screen size :p | 19:48 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: it also makes calls and snaps pictures | 19:48 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h, ... you need a proof? | 19:49 |
| RST38h | wanna URL? | 19:49 |
| RST38h | I have a proof | 19:49 |
| paroneayea | Hum. I was under the impression that maemo was debian based in the sense that you had access to all of debian's packages :\ | 19:50 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h, what url? you know that device? | 19:50 |
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| slonopotamus | oh, he also has fm radio there | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | how hard will it be expected to be to run maemo on debian on the n900? I'm new to this stack of software | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I saw some similar devices than that on dealextreme.com | 19:50 |
| timeless_mbp | mikkov_: i'm told that i can fondle it there on the 3rd | 19:50 |
| slonopotamus | craaazy | 19:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it sounds like a good day for a field trip | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | I see that some of it has been ported, and that there's an "easydebian" project | 19:50 |
| paroneayea | for the n800 line at least | 19:50 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a wrong noodle bar nearby | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | slonopotamus: | 19:50 |
| timeless_mbp | we could go there for lunch (circa 2pm) | 19:50 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: I do | 19:51 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: give me a oment | 19:51 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus: http://arkanoid.livejournal.com/223220.html | 19:51 |
| mikkov_ | timeless_mbp: ok, I'll ping you on thursday :) | 19:52 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 19:52 |
| lbt | paroneayea: you want Mer | 19:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll try to bring others | 19:52 |
| timeless_mbp | it sounds like a great field trip | 19:52 |
| Captain_Picard | 3.9.2009 eteenpäin sinulla on mahdollisuus kokeilla Nokia N900 -mobiilitietokonetta ensimmäisten joukossa. Vieraile Nokia Flagship Storessa Helsingin Aleksanterikadulla ja voit tutustua laitteeseen Nokian henkilökunnan opastuksella | 19:52 |
| Captain_Picard | w00t | 19:52 |
| Captain_Picard | in 2 days i can try N900 | 19:52 |
| Captain_Picard | in helsinki | 19:52 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly, i might not be able to make it, one of my bosses is trying to schedule a meeting w/ a group of crazy people | 19:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and i need to be there to try to reprogram those people | 19:52 |
| timeless_mbp | that's slightly more important | 19:52 |
| mikkov_ | heh :) | 19:52 |
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| paroneayea | lbt: mer? | 19:52 |
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| lbt | paroneayea: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Ow - 599e | 19:53 |
| lbt | it will allow you to apt-get install $anything | 19:53 |
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| paroneayea | lbt: hum, that's appealing... so is it just a layer on top of debian, or? | 19:54 |
| paroneayea | guess I should read the about page :) | 19:54 |
| lbt | :) | 19:54 |
| lbt | then ask if it's not clear... also note #mer | 19:55 |
| paroneayea | okay, read the about page | 19:55 |
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| zeev | can N900 recognize letters being written with stylus on its touchscreen and transform it to text on fly? | 20:02 |
| AStorm | unless they threw out epitext, it should | 20:02 |
| AStorm | btw, is it possible to order it now (or preorder) | 20:02 |
| zeev | also different languages? | 20:03 |
| AStorm | n810 could do some languages | 20:04 |
| mgedmin | rather badly at that | 20:04 |
| AStorm | yeah, fairly poorly | 20:05 |
| AStorm | not much can be expected from a bunch of decision trees | 20:05 |
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| derf | Decision trees? Seriously? | 20:06 |
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| AStorm | derf: yeah, looks like those | 20:07 |
| AStorm | it makes these predictable errors | 20:07 |
| derf | ... | 20:07 |
| zeev | do you have a link on that epitext? | 20:07 |
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| AStorm | zeev: no, but I think google will find it | 20:08 |
| AStorm | it's the name of the package | 20:08 |
| zeev | a, ok... | 20:08 |
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| AStorm | no, you won't | 20:09 |
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| mgedmin | what does "on display" actually mean? | 20:09 |
| AStorm | it's not even available in repository | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | can people buy the N900 in helsinki on that day, or are they only allowed to fondle it? | 20:09 |
| RST38h | AStorm: possible to preorder but not in .PL and you won't like the price anyway | 20:10 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: no, it is a demo sample only | 20:10 |
| mikkov_ | mgedmin: they can try it | 20:10 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Nokia often does this in its flagship stores | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | thought so | 20:10 |
| AStorm | RST38h: it's 599 euro, I see | 20:10 |
| AStorm | worth it | 20:10 |
| AStorm | +S&H | 20:11 |
| RST38h | not sure it is worth $858... | 20:12 |
| * Sallen booted from internal memory card! | 20:12 | |
| RST38h | congrats | 20:12 |
| Sallen | ty ^^ | 20:12 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: 858$? not necessarily | 20:13 |
| RST38h | e600 at exchange rate of 1.43 | 20:13 |
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| AStorm | but note that n810 costed close to that on launch | 20:14 |
| tlax | 599 euros would be nice.. | 20:14 |
| AStorm | and this looks far far better | 20:14 |
| tbf | RST38h: € 600 includes taxes | 20:14 |
| RST38h | AStorm: it cost $400 in US | 20:14 |
| AStorm | huhwha?! | 20:14 |
| AStorm | that must've been a sale | 20:14 |
| RST38h | tbf: who cares? if I order from .fr I pay .fr taxes | 20:14 |
| RST38h | AStorm: no normal price | 20:14 |
| AStorm | or USD was stronger | 20:14 |
| slonopotamus | n810 costs $400 in russia _now_ :( | 20:15 |
| tbf | RST38h: oh, should have targeted AStorm | 20:15 |
| mgedmin | slonopotamus: you can _buy_ a n810 in russia? luxury! | 20:15 |
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| mgedmin | I have to get somebody to smuggle one across the border | 20:15 |
| tbf | RST38h: considering the random vat rule in the states it surely won't be 858 USD. | 20:15 |
| tbf | wtf!? | 20:15 |
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| RST38h | mgedminL don't tell me you can't fedex/ups to Lithuania | 20:16 |
| tbf | AStorm: ^^^ regarding taxe | 20:16 |
| RST38h | mgedminL being a member of eu and stufff... | 20:16 |
| slonopotamus | mgedmin, err? | 20:16 |
| AStorm | well, I paid 400 euro for my n810 | 20:16 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h: the nokia web shop requires you to have a billing address in one of 11 countries | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | lithuania is not on that list | 20:16 |
| AStorm | (and it was fairly fresh then) | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | amazon doesn't ship electronics to lithuania either | 20:16 |
| RST38h | mgedminL ah that...yea, buying N810 from US web shop on US cc, from .RU was fun | 20:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I will - in the UK offer to recieve any N900s anyone ships to me free. | 20:16 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 20:16 |
| AStorm | and steal a few in the process? ;P | 20:17 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: They almost used anal probe on me (probably would, but could not do it over telephone) | 20:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I will then post it on free after making sure it works for a couple of years. | 20:17 |
| AStorm | ahha | 20:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | SpeedEvil: Your generosity knows no limits :) | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I will even include one 32G microsd! :) | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | and diligence! don't forget diligence | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | very rigorous burn-in testing | 20:18 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders what the 900 will go for in the UK with providers. | 20:18 | |
| * mgedmin admires SpeedEvil | 20:18 | |
| * RST38h remembers succulance and pulls out a knife and a fork | 20:19 | |
| AStorm | heh | 20:19 |
| AStorm | it will cost close to the european price | 20:19 |
| AStorm | now, I wonder how well it will function as a GPRS modem connected via USB or BT | 20:20 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: I mean with carrier subsidy. If any will. | 20:20 |
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| AStorm | maybe, I wouldn't count on that | 20:20 |
| AStorm | if any, it'll be as expensive as iPhone's | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: yeah. | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: however - would I buy an iphone with a similar package - no way. | 20:21 |
| RST38h | but I do not intend on buying an iphone | 20:21 |
| RST38h | AStorm: I expect it to cost $500 in US, sans contract | 20:22 |
| AStorm | and it might be impossible to simlock it well | 20:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | AStorm: how did you work that out? | 20:22 |
| AStorm | RST38h: mmmh, I'd buy it at the price if anyone would send to Poland | 20:22 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Have you seen a Nokia device that would only be sold on contract? | 20:22 |
| SpeedEvil | AStorm: I mean impossible to simlock | 20:23 |
| RST38h | AStorm: That depends on how anal retentive our custos are | 20:23 |
| RST38h | customs | 20:23 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Sending *anything* to/from Russia by mail is a sure ticket to Kafka | 20:23 |
| AStorm | well, Poland is EU. | 20:23 |
| AStorm | so shouldn't be that bad | 20:23 |
| AStorm | even with customs, it will be cheaper | 20:24 |
| RST38h | AStorm: After what mgedmin said, I am having some doubts about EU customs laws being uniform... | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | it's not the laws | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | it's the merchants | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be interesting if they could create a buzz about a phone without subsidy. | 20:24 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Oh, so the only problem is a wrong cc? | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | afaiu there are no custom taxes inside the EU | 20:24 |
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| konttori | Guys. We will have a /opt which will be a symlink to ext3 partition. | 20:25 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h: yes; I couldn't order one from the stores that had it available, using my CC | 20:25 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: A merchant can choose not to ship to different countries. | 20:25 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: Not paying VAT on incoming packages? | 20:25 |
| AStorm | RST38h: our laws will allow it in | 20:25 |
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| konttori | this extends installable application space to over gig | 20:25 |
| AStorm | the q is whether US laws will allow it out | 20:25 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, FYI: http://www.bakonvodka.com/ :) (probably you already saw this) | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | RST38h: actually, I | 20:25 |
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| mgedmin | RST38h: actually, I've no clue | 20:25 |
| konttori | (of disk that is never mounted to PC) | 20:25 |
| RST38h | AStorm: They will | 20:25 |
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| RST38h | mgedmin: Do find out at your leisure, or you may get an unpleasant surprise at some point | 20:25 |
| AStorm | so, I'll have to pay at most 18% custom tax | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: that's rather late to reveal in the process | 20:26 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Ok, so you do pay VAT | 20:26 |
| konttori | sure. | 20:26 |
| AStorm | yeah | 20:26 |
| AStorm | actually, 22% | 20:26 |
| RST38h | AStorm: In US, there is no VAT | 20:26 |
| lcuk | konttori, so apps have to be altered to cater specifically for maemo? | 20:26 |
| AStorm | still better than the EU price | 20:26 |
| AStorm | including S&H | 20:26 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: There is state sales tax (differes from 0% to 18% by state) | 20:26 |
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| Stskeeps | esepcially since this means all packages will have to ./configure --prefix=/opt | 20:26 |
| lcuk | and i have to treat fremantle partitioning in special case (ie theres no big /opt on 810) | 20:26 |
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| konttori | autotools allows you to just specify that as a parameter | 20:26 |
| RST38h | AStorm: And (surprise!) in most states it is not charged if you order stuff by mail from overseas or diff state | 20:26 |
| dick-richardson | how can I scan for available wireless networks from the terminal? | 20:27 |
| derf | RST38h: That's mostly changed. | 20:27 |
| lcuk | not everything uses autotools | 20:27 |
| konttori | anyway, that is option. You can continue installing as normal. | 20:27 |
| konttori | but the device will run out of space in no time | 20:27 |
| Stskeeps | mm true | 20:27 |
| AStorm | RST38h: goodies. Unlike Germany, where I had to pay the full taxed price :) | 20:27 |
| RST38h | derf: Well, I did not pay a thing as late as this spring | 20:27 |
| derf | You are now _supposed_ to declare it on your taxes at the end of the year, but there's little to no enforcement. | 20:27 |
| AStorm | (but didn't have to pay our tax, in fact could redeem that) | 20:27 |
| lcuk | so the majority of apps will just find an extra fragmented bit of space in a hidden unused section? | 20:27 |
| konttori | so, that allows unmountable data to be located on executable mounted location | 20:27 |
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| Stskeeps | konttori: someone needs to announce that officaially very soon | 20:27 |
| RST38h | derf: No shit? | 20:27 |
| derf | RST38h: Well, I say "mostly" because I don't know that it's changed for every state. | 20:27 |
| konttori | I have been asking for that as well. | 20:27 |
| RST38h | derf: Haven't heard such a thing about MD | 20:28 |
| konttori | but hey, do you guys need something detailed on that? | 20:28 |
| derf | But it has for a lot of them. | 20:28 |
| konttori | good tutorials on how to use it? | 20:28 |
| RST38h | derf: I guess nobody does it though? | 20:28 |
| konttori | what tutorials should we do? | 20:28 |
| derf | RST38h: Do you file MD income taxes? | 20:28 |
| lcuk | konttori, its not detailed, its why /etc | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, not a problem re /opt | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | is on rootfs | 20:28 |
| konttori | lcuk: why is because of lack of space | 20:28 |
| lcuk | why not mount one of the existing full partitions so all apps benefit by default? | 20:28 |
| lcuk | /etc -> this magical big area | 20:29 |
| RST38h | derf: 505 | 20:29 |
| konttori | you mean mount rootfs? | 20:29 |
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| konttori | not doable, emmc is not good for OS level content. | 20:29 |
| konttori | random access writes are too slow. | 20:29 |
| lcuk | i just think if dev time is being used to actually work out how all apps will need to be changed | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so /opt isn't a horrible idea | 20:29 |
| lcuk | rather than a fix all solution.. | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | but this should have been mentioned from day 1 | 20:29 |
| dick-richardson | is there a method to see the mac address of an access point before connecting? | 20:30 |
| lcuk | konttori, so this doesnt expand usable space for apps | 20:30 |
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| konttori | it will. why would it not? | 20:30 |
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| lcuk | well we have /media/mmcX for that right now | 20:30 |
| lcuk | and mmc2 is fixed | 20:30 |
| lcuk | on n810 at least | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: it allows for apps built for that | 20:30 |
| derf | RST38h: http://individuals.marylandtaxes.com/usetax/faq/q2.asp | 20:31 |
| lcuk | yeah - but wouldnt retaining mmc be simpler and more understandable and logical for existing devs | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | still this could easily be a recipe for ui disaster :/ | 20:31 |
| derf | As I said, there's basically no enforcement. | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, mmc is a bit ugly hack for this stuff | 20:32 |
| RST38h | derf" Yes but I am not using this merchandise in the state | 20:32 |
| Stskeeps | /opt is more unixy | 20:32 |
| * RST38h explodes in a fit of diabolical laughter | 20:32 | |
| derf | In NC, for example, they have a "no receipts" option where you just pay a fixed amount based on your taxable income. | 20:32 |
| RST38h | derf: Just imagine how they would investigate and prosecute this kind of stuff... | 20:33 |
| derf | And VA, for example, does not require you to pay anything if you paid _any_ sales tax in another state, even if it was less than VA's sales tax. | 20:33 |
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| dick-richardson | is there a method to see the mac address of the available access points before connecting? | 20:33 |
| derf | (any sales tax on that particular item, I mean) | 20:34 |
| GAN8001 | RST38h, it cost $479 at launch in the US. | 20:34 |
| GAN8001 | RST38h, the N800 cost $399. | 20:34 |
| konttori | lcuk: fat is not executable. whereas the ext3 in /opt is | 20:34 |
| mikkov_ | konttori: thanks for the info, I've wondering filesystem for ages | 20:34 |
| derf | But right, I imagine the cost of collection is so ridiculously high that it'll never get brought up, unless they're auditing you anyway. | 20:34 |
| AStorm | konttori: fixable with the right mount options | 20:35 |
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| Stskeeps | konttori: this also needs to go into maemopad and other example apps | 20:35 |
| mikkov_ | but I may still continue installing to fat32 at least on some packages :) | 20:35 |
| lcuk | cool i hope it gets used | 20:35 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: I'll ask the guys to make examples especially to maemopad example | 20:36 |
| konttori | anything else? | 20:36 |
| lcuk | what would happen on 810 | 20:37 |
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| lcuk | is it just shared under / anyway | 20:37 |
| AStorm | GAN8001: and incidentally, also euro 399 | 20:37 |
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| AStorm | but I couldn't find any US company shipping to Poland to capitalize on this | 20:37 |
| dick-richardson | I have two routers that have the same SSID, I need to see the mac address for each so I can map out where coverage is or isn't overlapping - can someone point me in the right direction? | 20:38 |
| konttori | lcuk: you would need to have a partitioned internal card | 20:38 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Oh, sorry | 20:38 |
| GAN8001 | konttori, isn't this why we have SDKs? | 20:38 |
| lcuk | konttori, i mean if an app tried to install its bits under /opt | 20:39 |
| lcuk | would it break | 20:39 |
| GAN8001 | konttori, to let developers know about this stuff before the device ships? | 20:39 |
| * GAN8001 sees Nokia still doesn't get it. | 20:39 | |
| RST38h | GAN: Was it in line with the euro price, wrt exchange rate of that time? | 20:39 |
| SpeedEvil | dick-richardson: iwlist wlan0 (or whatever) scanning | 20:39 |
| SpeedEvil | dick-richardson: ? | 20:39 |
| GAN8001 | RST38h, I don't know. | 20:39 |
| konttori | GAN8001: I assure you, this was not decided early enough. | 20:39 |
| konttori | and no, I have no clue who should have made it and when, but it wasn't until late in the game. | 20:39 |
| dick-richardson | SpeedEvil, that appears to just show the ap I'm connected to | 20:39 |
| lcuk | is it simply apps are more bloated? | 20:39 |
| lcuk | or just different totally | 20:40 |
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| konttori | installing qt libraries takes 30 megs | 20:40 |
| konttori | installing python 10 megs | 20:40 |
| lcuk | ok understood | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | dick-richardson: scan I mean - not scanning | 20:40 |
| konttori | so yeah, things are just more bloated. | 20:40 |
| lcuk | will it ship with qt? | 20:40 |
| konttori | cannot comment on that detail. sorry. | 20:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Awesome. http://maemotalk.com/ | 20:41 |
| lcuk | hah ok | 20:41 |
| lcuk | :P you mentioned it first | 20:41 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: With qt in the Extras ;) | 20:41 |
| lcuk | bbiab | 20:41 |
| dick-richardson | "wlan0 Interface doesn't support scanning" | 20:41 |
| * GeneralAntilles bangs his head through the wall then gets back to moving. | 20:41 | |
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| mikkov_ | maemotalk.com looks actually better than maemo.org frontpage :) | 20:42 |
| SpeedEvil | dick-richardson: I think some only do scanning when not associated. | 20:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, subjective. | 20:43 |
| dick-richardson | SpeedEvil, gotcha - I can work around that. Thank you! :) | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, it's also not brand compliant and horribly confusing since everybody is insisting on calling talk.maemo.org "Maemo Talk". | 20:44 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Reggie? | 20:44 |
| wazd | I really don't think that maemo talk and talk maemo at the same time is a good idea for newbies | 20:44 |
| VDVsx | ehhe, the background is a green rip-off of maemo.nokia background ;) | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, yes. | 20:44 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: yeah, my point | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo.org Talk is talk.maemo.org | 20:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or just "Talk". | 20:45 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Well, I guess he got the ok for it :) | 20:45 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: it would be uber-confusing, I swear | 20:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Tablet Scene anyone? :) | 20:45 |
| zerojay | He did. | 20:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, awfully obnoxious considering that it pretty much collides with an existing site name however. | 20:45 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: "No, not talk, maemotalk...no, not talkmaemo, maemotalk!" | 20:45 |
| VDVsx | oh dear | 20:46 |
| wazd | What do you think bout design branch guys? | 20:46 |
| wazd | I'd really appreciate your opinions | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: maemo developer guide, maemo-developers, talk.* maemol5 | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | maemo5 | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: sounds great | 20:47 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: so, what do you mean? | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: asked for any other places to announce and edit :) | 20:48 |
| RST38h | what is the maemotalk thing? Who is the lucky owner? | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | sorry, on tablet and in car, so lagged | 20:48 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: sure. will announce soon | 20:48 |
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| wazd | konttori: oh, heya, your opinion conts aswell, especially as you're a designer :) | 20:48 |
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| RST38h | Oh it is Reggie again | 20:49 |
| konttori | wazd: opinion on what? | 20:49 |
| wazd | konttori: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=319615 | 20:50 |
| penguinbait | opinions are like assholes, and nobody wants to see (or hear) yours ;)~ | 20:50 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, that damned extras repository | 20:52 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: What's up? | 20:52 |
| mikkov_ | GeneralAntilles: sure, my personal opinion. I like the what's up box | 20:52 |
| lcuk | nothin | 20:52 |
| konttori | wazd: I would recomend irc. | 20:52 |
| lcuk | i solved it | 20:52 |
| lcuk | i just stressed last night | 20:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: How many designers do you expect to gather there? | 20:52 |
| konttori | if nothing else, then a dedicated maemo-designers channel | 20:52 |
| lcuk | with the update lib+usable things | 20:52 |
| * konttori goes to read briefing material for nokai world | 20:53 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | maemotalk is a nice replacement for the (still-alive) internettablettalk.com front page, anyway | 20:53 |
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| * konttori leaves home at 6 AM and back at midnight. | 20:54 | |
| konttori | gonna be so fun | 20:54 |
| lcuk | flying visit literally | 20:54 |
| VDVsx | doctor visit :P | 20:54 |
| lcuk | hiya pb | 20:54 |
| lcuk | when did you arrive | 20:54 |
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| smackpotat | what's new | 20:55 |
| lcuk | penguinbait even :P | 20:55 |
| penguinbait | ;) | 20:55 |
| penguinbait | just a min ago | 20:56 |
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| wazd | RST38h: well, globaly every designer in the house :) | 20:57 |
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| lcuk | whats new then pb | 20:58 |
| lcuk | have you got your uniform ready | 20:58 |
| X-Fade | wazd: On one hand it is a good idea, on the other you have to wath for not going off an create your own group.. | 20:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: How many do you know? | 20:58 |
| X-Fade | wazd: All depends on implementation of course ;) | 20:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: I mean, my main concern would be getting the critical mass of people, to maintain the conversation | 20:58 |
| wazd | RST38h: me, Tim, kontorri, that guy ith stolen HTC theme :) | 20:59 |
| wazd | RST38h: mabe Canola dudes | 20:59 |
| wazd | RST38h: maybe* | 20:59 |
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| lcuk | then discuss it informally first | 21:00 |
| lcuk | you can coordinate and have a decent style session yourselves | 21:00 |
| lcuk | and if that works then see | 21:00 |
| * lcuk just realised he sounded like his mum | 21:01 | |
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| RST38h | wazd: Sounds like a plan, as long as all these people agree to participate =) | 21:01 |
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| wazd | RST38h: why wouldn't they?) | 21:01 |
| RST38h | wazd: lack of topics to discuss, other things to do, general laziness | 21:02 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's not only for discussion | 21:02 |
| wazd | RST38h: showcase, help | 21:02 |
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| RST38h | wazd: You know what...One idea to start up some discussion is to create a contest | 21:03 |
| wazd | http://symbianuibrainstorm.wordpress.com/ <- hehe | 21:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: Like "best fremantle theme" for example, with a public vote | 21:03 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Or "best icon set" | 21:03 |
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| wazd | RST38h: every contest should have it's prize :) | 21:04 |
| RST38h | wazd: That would create a continuous activity for people to participate in | 21:04 |
| RST38h | wazd: That too, ask Quim ;) | 21:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't have money even for n900 :D | 21:04 |
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| RST38h | wazd: that is why you should ask Quim :) | 21:05 |
| RST38h | a prize does not have to be very expensive too | 21:05 |
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| wazd | RST38h: Yacht? :D | 21:06 |
| RST38h | wazd: Spaceship! | 21:06 |
| Jaffa | lcuk++ - no point doing lots of infrastructure ahead of time | 21:06 |
| RST38h | Live elephant will work too | 21:06 |
| qwerty12_N810 | GIMP suit | 21:06 |
| Jaffa | Start with a "Design" sub-forum on tmo, perhaps with a sticky for best themes/tools etc. | 21:07 |
| Jaffa | There you could have polls to choose winners etc. | 21:07 |
| wazd | wazd, Jaffa: well, that's why I've asked on the t.m.o first :) | 21:07 |
| X-Fade | Themes and icon sets can be in Extras, ratings on Downloads. I'll even throw in a separate category ;) | 21:08 |
| Jaffa | design.maemo.org could be a redirect to that forum whilst it's being nurtured | 21:08 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: That is not the whole point | 21:08 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: The whole point is that wazd wants a subforum or some place where designers can discuss design topics | 21:08 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well, that is what talk should be used for then? | 21:09 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I am saying that to keep people active in such a subforum, there has to be some ongoing activity. And design contests fit the bill perfectly | 21:09 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Maybe a subforum of talk | 21:09 |
| lcuk | would the designer sub forum have its own theme? | 21:09 |
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| lcuk | new carpet and rugs | 21:09 |
| lcuk | and a different entrance :D | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Furry theme! | 21:10 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: We have got Development, why not also have Design, as long as enough people are interested? | 21:10 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: with animated background? =) | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | That is - with lots of fur - not anthropomorphic animals. | 21:10 |
| florian | re | 21:10 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Sure. | 21:10 |
| mikkov_ | design.maemo.org sound like wreckamovie.com but for open source applications | 21:11 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: themes would be in extras, sure, but it would be cool to have them agregated in one place | 21:14 |
| Jaffa | Talking of new themes, maemotalk.com is shiny | 21:14 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Sure, but that would be pretty easy. | 21:15 |
| wazd | Jaffa: well, stolen background :D | 21:15 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Stickies, app manager and a particular section in downloads | 21:15 |
| wazd | X-Fade: the easier - the better :D | 21:15 |
| wazd | X-Fade: app manager shows screenshots? | 21:15 |
| Jaffa | wazd? downloads.ammaemo.org does | 21:16 |
| X-Fade | And Maemo Select will too. | 21:17 |
| wazd | X-Fade: I thought Select is something like tableteer | 21:17 |
| Jaffa | Damn train | 21:17 |
| wazd | X-Fade: just essential software | 21:17 |
| X-Fade | wazd: No, a selection of software. | 21:18 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Sourced from Downloads and perhaps Ovi Store? | 21:18 |
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| Jaffa | That's my understanding too | 21:19 |
| wazd | X-Fade: I don't know, it's a secret :) | 21:19 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Well, the downloads part is known ;) | 21:19 |
| wazd | X-Fade: yep | 21:20 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: But Quim talked ovi too on talk. | 21:20 |
| Jaffa | wazd? Nokia have been talking about Select (without using that name) since the last summit | 21:20 |
| * wiretapped is out of the loop | 21:21 | |
| wiretapped | is there going to be a central marketplace for pay apps on maemo? | 21:21 |
| X-Fade | wiretapped: At some point in time, probably. | 21:21 |
| wiretapped | i was talking to an android dev who has a neat acceleromter app he just submitted to some google contest, he was saying he'd only develop on maemo if he can sell stuff | 21:22 |
| wiretapped | i'm sure it's a common sentiment | 21:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I see the chances of there not being a pay-for-market as tiny | 21:23 |
| SpeedEvil | If that's going to spring into full view on the 19th of October at 4:30 UTC is another question. | 21:23 |
| * wiretapped wants less closed source sw, not more, but must admit it would be good for the platform to cater to that demand | 21:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | you can have opensource pay-for too. | 21:24 |
| wiretapped | They should make donating to free software projects just as easy as buying them | 21:24 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle. | 21:25 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 21:25 |
| wiretapped | so all the free software should be "name your own price" alongside the pay wares | 21:25 |
| lcuk | donation should start as a game with virtual money that folks can topup from maemo.org | 21:25 |
| lcuk | all the "thnkas" and "wow cool" stuff should give $1 of virtual cash :D | 21:25 |
| lcuk | thanks even | 21:25 |
| SpeedEvil | With the author able to select between 'Gimme it all!' 'Donate to Red Cross' 'Donate to community fund' | 21:26 |
| lcuk | then sell your chips at the end of the night :) | 21:26 |
| SpeedEvil | (amongst others) | 21:26 |
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| wiretapped | if the app store doesn't have the free software in it, that would be extremely lame | 21:26 |
| wiretapped | but it totally wouldn't surprise me if they did that :/ | 21:27 |
| wiretapped | "maemo.org is for floss software, ovi app store isn't" | 21:28 |
| wiretapped | PLEASE don't do that, nokia | 21:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure - there should at least be some quality testing - even if it is fairly minimal. | 21:29 |
| X-Fade | Well, as long as you can browse both I see no harm in separation? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | "why yes, this fart app is exceptionally life like" | 21:29 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Exactly. | 21:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Poor quality fart noises will damage nokias reputation. | 21:30 |
| lcuk | i see many other apps anyway | 21:30 |
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| lcuk | and they dont have to be massive :) | 21:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah - there are lots of teeny stupid fun apps. | 21:30 |
| lcuk | or complex - weekend projects for people to scratch an itch | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | And then you have stuff like tomtom dropping their platform on it. | 21:31 |
| * lcuk must be a stupid teeny then | 21:31 | |
| lcuk | but thats ok | 21:31 |
| lcuk | cos thats another viable valid use case | 21:31 |
| X-Fade | It seems we reached the 200 participants mark for the summit! | 21:31 |
| lcuk | and people would pay | 21:31 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, have you seen the kind of apps i like | 21:31 |
| wiretapped | SpeedEvil: I don't see what QA has to do with the floss vs proprietary question; I'd expect them to do the same amount of testing of everything they allow in their store, whatever that is | 21:32 |
| lcuk | they let all the rif raf in the stores | 21:32 |
| wiretapped | srsly. | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | wiretapped: Nothing - prettymuch. | 21:32 |
| lcuk | its whether it has a price tag that matters | 21:32 |
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| wiretapped | well presumably they'll skim a bit from the voluntary payments people make to floss projects thru this hypothetical interface, which should cover their costs of doing whatever minimal level of review to do to allow apps in | 21:33 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY | 21:33 |
| lcuk | 5 shows more little apps | 21:33 |
| lcuk | but that should give you an idea | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | wiretapped: some sort of 'donate to community' option by authors of apps - and ways to allocate those community funds. | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Poor Reggie. | 21:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | He never gets the reaction he expects with his site launches. | 21:35 |
| wiretapped | I think they should just give the money to the authors of the software to do with as they please | 21:35 |
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| lcuk | wiretapped, some of those authors might already be involved in the community anyway | 21:35 |
| lcuk | and so donating to a global maemo.org entity may be desired anyway | 21:36 |
| wiretapped | If the Maemo Mapper guy wants to donate to charity, thats his concern and he can say he's doing so; but I'd like to donate to him. | 21:36 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: looking nice | 21:37 |
| * wiretapped just donated to gnuite | 21:37 | |
| lcuk | of course | 21:37 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, was that vid 4 or 5 you saw | 21:37 |
| lcuk | good on you wiretapped :D | 21:37 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: 4 | 21:37 |
| lcuk | 4 was the first glimpse, 5 is a bit later :) | 21:37 |
| lcuk | and, well - now im most impressed | 21:37 |
| lcuk | shame my video camera is knackered :) | 21:38 |
| X-Fade | thp: Congrats on being the first app in testing with positive karma! :) | 21:38 |
| thp | X-Fade: :) great.. hehe | 21:39 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_025549.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png | 21:39 |
| lcuk | oooh thp | 21:39 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:39 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, wheres the page | 21:40 |
| lcuk | showing app karma | 21:40 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: qa queue | 21:41 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/ | 21:42 |
| lcuk | nice | 21:42 |
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| * lcuk saves that link | 21:43 | |
| X-Fade | lcuk: it is on http://maemo.org/packages/ ;) | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: fn - the video is smoother than it looks in video? | 21:43 |
| lcuk | i dont normally browse | 21:43 |
| lcuk | :$ theres lots of distractions for me | 21:43 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, what do you mean | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: And is that a fake handwriting font - or a 'I haven't written handwriting recogniser' ? | 21:44 |
| RST38h | Japan Plans $21B Space Power Plant <== One accident and the whole nation is zapped from space | 21:44 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, ? which bit | 21:44 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=liq | 21:44 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Save that one too ;) | 21:44 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the handwriting in the calendar forex | 21:44 |
| lcuk | no | 21:44 |
| lcuk | thats handwriting | 21:44 |
| lcuk | or drawings | 21:44 |
| julianoliver | lcuk: nice work on the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt7qB37sLLo&NR=1 | 21:45 |
| lcuk | or the normal stuff you put on wall calendar | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | you know, real stuff | 21:45 |
| julianoliver | impressive performance.. | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: yeah - I see why it's powerful - but also not searchable | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | and? they can be tagged easily | 21:45 |
| lcuk | and i have been playing with a hwr algo | 21:45 |
| lcuk | but ive got other things to concern myself with | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. Good hwr isn't. | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | easy | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | ive got neough of my writing to at least get decent detection | 21:46 |
| lcuk | enough | 21:46 |
| lcuk | around 5000 notes at last count | 21:46 |
| lcuk | some are just doodles, others are outlines for things or bug reports | 21:46 |
| lcuk | but im a visual person | 21:46 |
| lcuk | i cant search paper | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Do you simply have pixel-maps - or do you have velocity too? | 21:47 |
| lcuk | but i can scan down a list | 21:47 |
| lcuk | no pixelmaps | 21:47 |
| lcuk | i have vector coordinates | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | vector with speed? | 21:47 |
| lcuk | reproduced and rendered realtime | 21:47 |
| lcuk | well | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | (for the writing) | 21:47 |
| lcuk | each point in the stroke has x,y,z,t | 21:47 |
| lcuk | z=pressure | 21:48 |
| lcuk | tho thats been removed recently | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | that'l make for lots more data. | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | (which is good) | 21:48 |
| lcuk | cos my x41 doesnt have xsp lib | 21:48 |
| lcuk | its tiny data | 21:48 |
| lcuk | each sketch is really small | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean more data in respect of an algo - which is good | 21:48 |
| lcuk | oh yeah | 21:49 |
| kirma | someone was asking about VFP, NEON and such on Cortex-A8 (or the OMAP34whatever on N900). I found this page pretty valuable: http://wiki.davincidsp.com/index.php/Cortex_A8 | 21:49 |
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| lcuk | i can already differentiate and group up sketches | 21:49 |
| lcuk | resolution independent stroke identification is fairly simple | 21:49 |
| lcuk | its grouping into letters and words thats hard | 21:49 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: doing anything on squaring up drawings and stuff? | 21:49 |
| kirma | VFP is *not* the way to go unless IEEE754 compliance is necessary | 21:49 |
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| lcuk | squaring up? | 21:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: tidying up drawings to 'perfect' them - smoothing curves - straightening lines live | 21:50 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, :D that list WILL grow! | 21:50 |
| RST38h | kirma: why? | 21:50 |
| lcuk | sod that | 21:50 |
| lcuk | ive looked | 21:50 |
| lcuk | it was too much cpu on the n810, maybe i can use more later | 21:50 |
| lcuk | on n900 etc | 21:50 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_025549.ctrlliqpostcard_intro1.scr.png | 21:51 |
| lcuk | look there | 21:51 |
| lcuk | low res rendering of sketch | 21:51 |
| kirma | VFP implementation is not efficient... it's very simple "VFP lite" on Cortex-A8 | 21:51 |
| lcuk | thats half res that its stored as | 21:51 |
| kirma | and NEON is obviously designed for performance | 21:51 |
| lcuk | ive got curve smoothing algos and AA line drawing, but not enough time to drop in | 21:51 |
| lcuk | :) http://maemo.org/packages/view/liqtorch/ | 21:52 |
| lcuk | my favorite package | 21:52 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: Looking very interesting! | 21:52 |
| derf | VFP was really slow on ARM11, too. | 21:52 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, yeah it is | 21:52 |
| lcuk | its been hard work to get the engine running | 21:52 |
| lcuk | ive got 1001 apps i want it for | 21:52 |
| * lcuk daydreams about touching his own code. :) | 21:53 | |
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| * lcuk notes more bugs before settling down for some coding | 21:56 | |
| * SpeedEvil is putting all his effort ATM into tidying the garden, so I can leave it for a bit :/ | 21:57 | |
| SpeedEvil | 2 tons of gravel moved today. | 21:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Then more time for fun stuff | 21:57 |
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| lcuk | SpeedEvil, :) tending to liqbase is like an unruly garden | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 21:59 |
| lcuk | theres always weeds popping up somewhere and i sometimes concentrate on some things at the detrement of others :) | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Does it have 2m high broccoli though? | 21:59 |
| lcuk | no, but it has a bacon patch | 22:00 |
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| lcuk | ok, theres a bit in liqbase at the moment | 22:00 |
| lcuk | it shows a thumbnail preview of each of the modules | 22:01 |
| lcuk | but it can only take that preview *after* the module has been run for the first time | 22:01 |
| lcuk | its annoying and i dont know how to solve it to make it more polished | 22:01 |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 22:01 | |
| * lcuk explains with a screenshot | 22:01 | |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090831_021207.desktopmanage_desktopmanage1.scr.png | 22:02 |
| SpeedEvil | initial png? | 22:02 |
| lcuk | but the pngs are stored and loaded from a user level subfolder | 22:02 |
| lcuk | ie, not installed as part of the package | 22:02 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 22:02 |
| lcuk | i have worked really hard recently to reduce the footprint of the basic package | 22:02 |
| lcuk | it went from 8mb to under 1 | 22:02 |
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| * SpeedEvil has no clue. | 22:03 | |
| * lcuk trimmed lots of hedges | 22:03 | |
| lcuk | and removed lots of bulk :) | 22:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - sorry - falling asleep. | 22:03 |
| *** Khertan has joined #maemo | 22:03 | |
| * SpeedEvil lies down for a bit. | 22:03 | |
| lcuk | np, ive done this much anyway lol | 22:03 |
| lcuk | \o | 22:03 |
| *** ejdav_gon is now known as jdav_gone | 22:03 | |
| Khertan | Youhou !!! Pre order for n900 is now available in french store ! Youhou !!! 649 Euros ... this is clearly not for me ! | 22:03 |
| Khertan | gurps | 22:04 |
| lcuk | lol Khertan | 22:04 |
| lcuk | what if you replaced your mobile phone contract with one (i assume that will be the idea?) | 22:04 |
| lcuk | so it was much cheaper? | 22:05 |
| *** tiagofalcao[AWAY is now known as tiagofalcao | 22:05 | |
| Khertan | lol | 22:05 |
| lcuk | thats a point, can you internet whilst on the phone? | 22:05 |
| AStorm | 650 Euros? that's much higher than the list price | 22:05 |
| AStorm | damnit | 22:05 |
| Khertan | cheaper ? if i take a mobile plan at 69 Euros by month ... | 22:05 |
| lcuk | what list price? | 22:05 |
| kirma | 500 euros + taxes | 22:05 |
| lcuk | do you have a plan now? | 22:05 |
| lcuk | holy cow! | 22:05 |
| Khertan | 500 Euros + TVA = 599Euro Max | 22:06 |
| lcuk | which country has no taxes? | 22:06 |
| AStorm | Bahamas? ;p | 22:06 |
| lcuk | and nokia deliveries | 22:06 |
| Khertan | lcuk : yep a unlimited data plan with one hour of talk which doesn't exist anymore | 22:06 |
| AStorm | nokia deliveries are cheap inside EU | 22:06 |
| lcuk | :D one of the finnish islands | 22:06 |
| Khertan | for 18Euro by month | 22:06 |
| Khertan | AStorm : 17Euros is cheap for a delivery ? | 22:06 |
| AStorm | unlimited... data... plan... WANT! | 22:06 |
| AStorm | not bad | 22:07 |
| lcuk | ANY data plan want | 22:07 |
| Khertan | AStorm: i paid less for a computare | 22:07 |
| Khertan | computer delivery | 22:07 |
| lcuk | i think my phone does morse | 22:07 |
| lcuk | or at a push semaphore or smoke signals | 22:07 |
| Khertan | mine is a 6500Slide | 22:07 |
| AStorm | ;P | 22:07 |
| Khertan | nice s40 phone | 22:07 |
| Khertan | :) | 22:07 |
| jaska | yeah.. theyre having preorders here in finland too.. but no price yet | 22:07 |
| AStorm | mine is a sheissung U700 | 22:07 |
| jaska | not gonna preorder something i dont know price and date of | 22:07 |
| AStorm | *Scheissung | 22:07 |
| lcuk | you balk at 599 for n900, but have a €6500 slide? | 22:07 |
| lcuk | jaska, when i saw the n810 i knew i had to have one. no matter what. this 900 has brought back the love affair | 22:08 |
| lcuk | but my 810 will get jealous | 22:08 |
| lcuk | thankfully there are a load of great apps for 810 currently and liqbase will remain fully compatible | 22:09 |
| AStorm | really | 22:09 |
| AStorm | I'd buy it just for the camera | 22:09 |
| lcuk | yeah its a major factor :$ | 22:09 |
| * lcuk has wanted a real camera for so long | 22:09 | |
| julianoliver | i'm more curious as to the video performance overall. | 22:09 |
| AStorm | but no, they had to add the better cpu, more ram, more flash... | 22:09 |
| AStorm | pity the screen is smaller | 22:10 |
| AStorm | julianoliver: likely better than n810 given the stronger cpu | 22:10 |
| lcuk | AStorm, the 810 really couldnt have kept up | 22:10 |
| * julianoliver develops Augmented Reality applications | 22:10 | |
| kirma | jaska: I assume you don't mean kauppa.nokia.fi but verkkokauppa.com etc? | 22:10 |
| lcuk | it struggles to do 640*480 previews | 22:10 |
| julianoliver | the N900 finds a sweet spot for AR | 22:10 |
| jaska | kirma: yeah | 22:10 |
| lcuk | julianoliver, why video then for AR stuff? | 22:10 |
| AStorm | lcuk: no, I mean, smaller as in size, the res is the same | 22:10 |
| lcuk | or are they 2 different lines | 22:10 |
| kirma | verkkokauppa.com can't really enforce an order whose price they can't tell | 22:11 |
| jaska | yeah i know | 22:11 |
| julianoliver | lcuk: the video is used as the basis for the track. the augmentation is an overlay. | 22:11 |
| jaska | but i dont want to order something i dont know when and how much for :) | 22:11 |
| kirma | so, I put myself in the preorder queue like the day it appeared there | 22:11 |
| lcuk | ahhh yeah | 22:11 |
| jaska | patience is not in my vocabulary | 22:11 |
| lcuk | ive seen the effect | 22:11 |
| lcuk | they said the screen was more touchable than ever - when i was playing in cph it was soooo responsive :$ | 22:12 |
| lcuk | i walked away with poor 810 prodding it and poking it | 22:12 |
| kirma | if I get it faster somewhere else with reasonable price... well, I'm certainly going to cancel verkkokauppa.com order. I've carried thousands of euros of own money to that shop already this year... | 22:12 |
| julianoliver | plenty of people seem disappointed about it not being a capacitive screen.. | 22:12 |
| lcuk | why is that | 22:12 |
| jaska | i would be disappointed if it was | 22:13 |
| lcuk | capacitive isnt the answer to everything | 22:13 |
| julianoliver | less responsive apparently, and also poorer in sunlight. | 22:13 |
| jaska | capacitive = cant use nail or stylus | 22:13 |
| lcuk | capacitive == cant draw | 22:13 |
| julianoliver | admittedly i like to use a pen from time to time so capacitive doesn't suit so well | 22:13 |
| Khertan | [21:12] <lcuk> they said the screen was more touchable than ever - when i was playing in cph it was soooo responsive <<<< ? | 22:13 |
| lcuk | Khertan, copenhagen a couple of months ago | 22:13 |
| kirma | julianoliver: let's say that maemo 6 has multitouch on the schedule | 22:13 |
| Khertan | capacitive sucks ... there are not precise | 22:13 |
| julianoliver | kirma: interesting.. | 22:14 |
| lcuk | just look in your logs for when i started moaning lots about packaging | 22:14 |
| kirma | and it's not really there just for fun | 22:14 |
| lcuk | kirma, now a blended approach would be good | 22:14 |
| lcuk | or a stathen (spelling) resistive multitouch panel | 22:14 |
| Khertan | lcuk: you mean you have already see the n900 before ? | 22:14 |
| kirma | let's say that I people can connect the dots in their minds | 22:14 |
| lcuk | Khertan, no | 22:14 |
| lcuk | we saw and played with some prototype things | 22:15 |
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| julianoliver | hay Maemo on the BB. i thought Mer was the closest to Maemo on this specific hardware: http://maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org/ | 22:15 |
| * julianoliver is a little late to the proverbial party | 22:16 | |
| Khertan | hum ... my n810 reboot on charger ... | 22:16 |
| thp | Khertan: it was like a prerelease device with some big plastic cover around to hide most of the rest of the device that is not the screen | 22:16 |
| argonel | so i just locked my n800, and have no idea what the unlock code is. it isn't the default. is there any way i can get in? | 22:16 |
| Khertan | battery are during less than two hours | 22:16 |
| argonel | i'm really annoyed that i was not prompted to enter the lock code before locking it | 22:16 |
| lcuk | Khertan, changed anything ? | 22:16 |
| AStorm | maybe a multisensor resistive? | 22:16 |
| Khertan | opening the keyboard block sometimes | 22:16 |
| lcuk | default screen brightness? | 22:16 |
| AStorm | that's possible, but expensive | 22:16 |
| lcuk | bluetooth etc | 22:17 |
| Khertan | seems thant it s dying slowly | 22:17 |
| AStorm | buy a new battery | 22:17 |
| Khertan | lcuk, i ven't change the bluetooth | 22:17 |
| AStorm | they dislike heat a lot | 22:17 |
| Khertan | diminush the brightness | 22:17 |
| Khertan | it has begin when the temp was hot | 22:17 |
| AStorm | hey, I blew a battery completely due to heat | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | My battery's capacity was noticeably reduced this summer when I had N810 with me in the car :) | 22:18 |
| AStorm | maybe that's the reason for the change | 22:18 |
| ShadowJK | (and that's finland) | 22:18 |
| * Khertan isn't trying to find an excuse for buying a n900 | 22:18 | |
| lcuk | yeah yeah | 22:18 |
| lcuk | we believe you | 22:19 |
| lcuk | do you say the same things to missus? | 22:19 |
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| Khertan | i ll be able to change only if i can get one a less at half the actual price ... around 300Euros Max | 22:19 |
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| Khertan | s/a/at | 22:19 |
| Khertan | so i don't expect to get an n900 before the next year ... :( | 22:20 |
| Khertan | ouch the n810 reboot again while charging | 22:20 |
| Khertan | does it can come from the charger ? | 22:20 |
| Khertan | an idea on how to track what cause the reboot ? | 22:21 |
| julianoliver | are there any non Nokia devices coming to market slated to run Maemo 5 in the near future? | 22:21 |
| Khertan | none know | 22:22 |
| Khertan | yet | 22:22 |
| julianoliver | is there expressed interest from third party hardware manufacturers in the platform? | 22:22 |
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| ShadowJK | Some of the Maemo5 components are binary-only copyright Nokia, so a non nokia manufacturer couldn't take maemo5 as-is | 22:23 |
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| Khertan | i don tknow any | 22:23 |
| julianoliver | ShadowJK: hence 'Mer' | 22:23 |
| Khertan | ShadowJK: this is only component specific to driver | 22:23 |
| kirma | rst38h: do you (or somebody?) know about details of issue rates and instructions of different NEON pipelines... obviously they're not typically one clock cycle rates, since the thing has *seven* pipelines but the NEON unit accepts only two instructions per clock cycle at maximum... | 22:23 |
| kirma | I bet there's a document somewhere, just too lazy to search for that specific one now :) | 22:24 |
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| ShadowJK | iirc neon also runs concurrent with the arm core? | 22:24 |
| julianoliver | Khertan: interesting.. so there's nothing stopping someone from authoring their own drivers for Maemo, allowing it to run unhindered on new hardware. | 22:25 |
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| kirma | quick look would suggest that Cortex-A8 can issue two instructions per cycle on the traditional ARM core, and two on NEON per clock cycle | 22:25 |
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| Khertan | julianoliver: if you can look at mer ... it could run on other device than the nokia one | 22:25 |
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| julianoliver | Khertan: yes, Mer looks great. | 22:26 |
| julianoliver | is the theme and icon set used on the N900 also open? | 22:26 |
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| * julianoliver greps around | 22:26 | |
| * kirma wonders if that could translate into 4800 multiply-accumulate MFLOPs, 2400, or what | 22:26 | |
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| Khertan | someone know how i can get while my n810 reboot with strace ? | 22:27 |
| kirma | single precision floating point that is | 22:27 |
| Khertan | s/while/why | 22:27 |
| ShadowJK | mru would know, though he is not involved/active/interested in maemo/nxxx/nokia | 22:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | julianoliver: so um | 22:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't want the icon set from the n900 | 22:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it's awful :) | 22:27 |
| julianoliver | timeless_mbp: hehe not to my boss ;) | 22:27 |
| timeless_mbp | i've heard people say it reminds them of s60 | 22:27 |
| ShadowJK | you'd probably find him in the beagleboard channel, possibly other omap3 interested people there as well | 22:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, because it IS S60. | 22:28 |
| julianoliver | heh. | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's ripped straight for S60 5th for the most part. | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | julianoliver, Nokia's iconsets are never free. | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nor are their themes. | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Excepting the SDK theme. | 22:28 |
| julianoliver | i wondered as much.. | 22:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Differentiation. It's not unreasonable. | 22:28 |
| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: there is a theme in the | 22:28 |
| Khertan | Sdk .? | 22:28 |
| julianoliver | GeneralAntilles: indeed. | 22:29 |
| Khertan | and there is icon too ? | 22:29 |
| Khertan | oh ! | 22:29 |
| Khertan | really :) | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | It sucks when Chinese cloners ship stuff that looks exactly like what you ship to normal consumers. | 22:29 |
| VDVsx | Nokla FTW ;) | 22:29 |
| timeless_mbp | did you see the chinese n900? | 22:29 |
| julianoliver | GeneralAntilles: well Nokia has a huge chunk of the market in China. nothing to worry about there.. | 22:29 |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, not yet, here ? | 22:30 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Nokla N900? =) | 22:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, I ordered one accidentally in my confusion. ;) | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 22:30 |
| kirma | I actually saw a chinese "N900" page today | 22:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: No, no, Nokla E900, based upon wazd's mockup | 22:30 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Isn't it made by HTC? :) | 22:30 |
| kirma | but it was just a phone with N-series-sounding name and looks | 22:30 |
| Khertan | Nokla N900 exist : http://www.dhgate.com/2pcs-lot-cellphone-nokla-n900-gsm-cdma-fm/p-ff80808122ba26e80122ba4eb65811ac.html | 22:30 |
| Khertan | :) | 22:30 |
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| VDVsx | behold, qwerty12_N810 is an secret nokla agent :) | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mynokiablog.com/tag/clone | 22:31 |
| ShadowJK | 3g on a chinese clone? rare :) | 22:32 |
| javispedro | damn, I'm out for an hour, and you already reveal the filesystem layout? | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | Huh, it claims to have S60 3.1 | 22:32 |
| * kirma was in shanghai and beijing gadget/electronics markets couple weeks ago... saw like four different copied versions of N97 alone | 22:33 | |
| julianoliver | well admittedly i couldn't care less whether i owned a clone or not. as long as it's running code whose license has been honoured and it outperforms the 'original' at a better price! | 22:33 |
| kirma | some particularly crude, others on the level that really looked real... | 22:33 |
| timeless_mbp | julianoliver: right, you don't care if people get money to contribute changes to open source projects | 22:33 |
| timeless_mbp | so that they can buy pizza and beer for themselves and clothing for their family | 22:34 |
| julianoliver | lost me.. | 22:34 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 22:34 | |
| Captain_Picard | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKVfuAik2wE&feature=related wtf :D | 22:34 |
| Captain_Picard | seriously :D | 22:34 |
| Captain_Picard | where do they make | 22:34 |
| Captain_Picard | theese fake nokias :D | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | That nokla n900 doesn't look particulary cheap | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | you get a genuine for the same amount | 22:34 |
| javispedro | so what's the filesystem layout? Union fs in /? Plain old 256MiB rootfs? | 22:34 |
| Captain_Picard | what file system | 22:35 |
| Captain_Picard | is it running? | 22:35 |
| Captain_Picard | a music express phone? | 22:35 |
| julianoliver | timeless_mbp: i get paid to work on opensource projects often! | 22:35 |
| AStorm | ... real Nokia N900 | 22:35 |
| Captain_Picard | operativ system | 22:35 |
| AStorm | Maemo 5 | 22:35 |
| javispedro | the N900 one I mean. I've read something about /opt that is already worrying me. | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, I meant you get a real Nokia of same spec for same or less | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, 256MB UBIFS on NAND, 32GB eMMC is split into 768MB swap, some value of FAT32 and some value of ext3 (1GB is one number I've heard). | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | julianoliver: if people don't pay for the hardware, then no one will be able to pay the engineers who work on the open source | 22:35 |
| julianoliver | timeless_mbp: in fact working with an on opensource projects has been a staple part of my income for 10 years or so. | 22:35 |
| konttori | javispedro: what's worrying you? | 22:35 |
| konttori | (about opt) | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, that 1GB is apparently mounted on /opt. | 22:36 |
| javispedro | ah... | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | The FAT32 may be on /home | 22:36 |
| julianoliver | timeless_mbp: but they are paying for the hardware.. it's just a clone, probably made by the same people that manufacture the 'original'. | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | FAT32 = /home/user/MyDocs | 22:36 |
| javispedro | GAN, doubt /home is FAT32, but $MYDOCSDIR may | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | /opt and /home share 1gb of ext3 | 22:36 |
| javispedro | share? | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or that. | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | well, i don't remember the exact layout | 22:36 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders if anything is depending on that FAT32. | 22:36 | |
| konttori | it's a bit over a gig | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc /opt is a symlink | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | If not it's the first thing I'm wiping. | 22:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | konttori: whatever | 22:37 |
| AStorm | in v4 stuff did | 22:37 |
| AStorm | in v5, hopefully they used -t auto | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: well, the bluetooth and pc suite stuff kinda have some assumptions | 22:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | if you don't care about those | 22:37 |
| javispedro | konttori: yet again split packages. but no real complains (it's at least a bit better than the diablo situation) | 22:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | konttori: do you know the filename of the pause icon in the media player? (if you can share it) | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | then... | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless_mbp, don't use PC Suite, I'm guessing Bluetooth wont be a big issue. | 22:37 |
| ShadowJK | nobody in their right mind install pc suite anyway | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, /opt => /home/opt | 22:37 |
| konttori | qwerty12_N810: sorry, can't remember from top of my head | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | that's the "share" bit | 22:38 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: 100% agree | 22:38 |
| ShadowJK | (or equivalent from any other vendor) | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | konttori: Ah, thanks anyway | 22:38 |
| konttori | the theme example does contain it though | 22:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | konttori: Ah, brilliant, thanks, I'll check it out :) | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | it's closer to 1.8gb according to df here fwiw | 22:38 |
| javispedro | 256MiB rootfs is a bit on the low side though. Even simpler aplications will now have to install to /opt. | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure where *that* number came from :) | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, we're hunting dinner | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: could be worse solution really | 22:39 |
| * javispedro envisions /usr/lib full of symlinks | 22:39 | |
| Stskeeps | no need | 22:39 |
| javispedro | LD_LIBRARY_PATH or ld.conf? | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | just add to ld.so.conf or whatever | 22:39 |
| javispedro | then $PATH | 22:39 |
| konttori | qwerty12_N810: but only in the source zip file | 22:39 |
| konttori | not in the template itself | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | path is easy | 22:39 |
| javispedro | but either we agree on that, or hope that the base system contains the link | 22:39 |
| konttori | (so, in the to-do list for me) | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: i was trying to make that | 22:40 |
| javispedro | I personally hope we can agree on /opt/lib for LD_LIBRARY_PATH, and /opt/bin for $PATH | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't manage to focus long enough not to brick a device | 22:40 |
| javispedro | /opt/usr/bin is too long ;) | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: no need to involve ld_library path afaik | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | more interesting problems are /etc | 22:40 |
| javispedro | hum, true. | 22:40 |
| kirma | is OMAP3530 exact equivalent of OMAP3420? | 22:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | obviously not | 22:41 |
| RST38h | no, hence different number | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h++ | 22:41 |
| javispedro | if we can get most packages to install into /opt we may even get the ideal "NAND is only base-system, eMMC is addons". | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | if you use autoconf and a sane setup, this shnouldnt break anythinh | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: someday we'd like to see unionfs | 22:41 |
| AStorm | blah blah | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe mer can work on that | 22:41 |
| derf | It's 110 OMAPs better, of course. | 22:41 |
| kirma | well, one is available through "handset channel" (for manufacturers) and other through "catalog channel" (smaller quantities...) | 22:41 |
| AStorm | unionfs is trivial | 22:42 |
| AStorm | what's not trivial is immc performance | 22:42 |
| javispedro | well, on N810 they're mostly on par. | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: my worry is that app manager doesn't accept a package can use external space even though nand is full | 22:42 |
| RST38h | kirma: the wiki page you are looking at does not list all the chip specifics | 22:42 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps, does it check that? | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | so it should first warn when things have gone full | 22:42 |
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| Stskeeps | javispedro: not sure | 22:42 |
| javispedro | bare Sarge dpkg does not | 22:43 |
| javispedro | I remember fscking my vmware because of that | 22:43 |
| kirma | RST38h: well, the fun part is that I'd want to hunt the technical reference manual for this 3420 | 22:43 |
| AStorm | oooh, raid0 on flash and immc ;) | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | a internal/external mb indicator on app man would be nice | 22:43 |
| kirma | but it seems that I find quickly only 35xx series from TI | 22:43 |
| javispedro | yeah, ideally, just hide the whole concept of the NAND space | 22:43 |
| RST38h | kirma: you want the comparison or just the datasheet on 3420? | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | so 0mb/60m | 22:43 |
| javispedro | and let the 1 GiB be "space for applications". | 22:43 |
| julianoliver | kirma: yes i noticed that the 34* manuals are harder to find now. | 22:44 |
| javispedro | then make Maemian or the maemo.org/packages reject those who install more than 1% of the space to / instead of /opt | 22:44 |
| RST38h | kirma: The differences seem to be in the peripheral devices | 22:44 |
| kirma | well, I'm pretty flexible, but if some things differ, I'd like to see detailed explanation... | 22:44 |
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| kirma | ah. peripherals are not so interesting to me. | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: maemian should definately encourage this stuff | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | 3rd party apps too | 22:44 |
| RST38h | kirma: A moment | 22:44 |
| thp | does that mean that fremantle package should set their $PREFIX to /opt when installing? | 22:44 |
| thp | s/package/packages/ | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | thp: that's what it sounds like | 22:45 |
| infobot | thp meant: does that mean that fremantle packages should set their $PREFIX to /opt when installing? | 22:45 |
| AStorm | sounds yuck | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | /usr/local wouldn't have been a bad choice either | 22:45 |
| javispedro | yes, another debian incompatibility. but hey, ust another one in a already long list ;) | 22:45 |
| * qwerty12_N810 would like to see for himself how using /opt works before changing the prefix from /usr | 22:45 | |
| ShadowJK | isn't | 22:45 |
| ShadowJK | isn't /opt usually arranged as /opt/nameofsoftware/ | 22:46 |
| RST38h | kirma: 3420 diagram and specs: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12765&contentId=30083&DCMP=WTBU&HQS=Other+OT+omap3420 | 22:46 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: it is | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: oh boy | 22:46 |
| AStorm | wg 5 | 22:46 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 22:46 |
| AStorm | sorry | 22:46 |
| ShadowJK | so you''d have /opt/firefox /opt/thunderbird /opt/openoffice instead of just having /opt as PREFIX? | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | we need a public discussion on this asap | 22:46 |
| javispedro | but then we'd have to do GoboLinux-like link system | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | before things go really haywire | 22:46 |
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| javispedro | which is not definitely something to do weeks before the device launches. | 22:47 |
| javispedro | :) | 22:47 |
| javispedro | *something not to do. :) | 22:47 |
| AStorm | nah nah | 22:47 |
| ShadowJK | Anyone who's used a Sun installation must be familiar with the /opt mess :) | 22:47 |
| RST38h | kirma: OMAP3530 diagram and specs: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html | 22:47 |
| AStorm | most of apps work out of box w/o gobolinux-like hacks | 22:47 |
| thp | so, they have something like a 256mb (?) rootfs + a 2gb non-fat volume mounted at /opt/ in the n900? | 22:47 |
| lcuk | i think i got the jist theres technical performance reasons to not just move /usr/share somewhere with lots of space | 22:47 |
| lcuk | is that right | 22:47 |
| AStorm | wrong | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: libs take space too | 22:48 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 22:48 |
| AStorm | performance reason | 22:48 |
| kirma | rst38h: yep, that I found. I'm mostly intrigued how they implemented the Cortex-A8 core, since the implementation isn't really "fixed", but the licensor can considerably affect it | 22:48 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, thats the point! | 22:48 |
| kirma | for instance, what are instruction throughputs and latencies | 22:48 |
| lcuk | i got the impression /opt was for data | 22:48 |
| AStorm | kirma: I think they haven't altered the original design | 22:48 |
| lcuk | not for apps | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | thp: aye - except it may seen a bit non-lsb atm | 22:48 |
| RST38h | kirma: these seem to be documented at the arm site, so they should be fixed | 22:48 |
| AStorm | lcuk: nopes, for large separate application packages | 22:48 |
| AStorm | /usr/share is for data | 22:49 |
| kirma | I wonder what's the "tunable" part if all that is fixed :) | 22:49 |
| thp | http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES | 22:49 |
| AStorm | kirma: it means they can add things | 22:49 |
| thp | says "A package to be installed in /opt must locate its static files in a separate /opt/<package> or /opt/<provider> directory tree, where <package> is a name that describes the software package and <provider> is the provider's LANANA registered name." | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | thp: and that's where things get insane | 22:49 |
| lcuk | if the share folder was just relocated tho, wont that cure the problem without changing/testing apps | 22:50 |
| AStorm | LANANANANA, what a joke | 22:50 |
| lcuk | you can still have /opt | 22:50 |
| lcuk | but kill 2 birds with one stone | 22:50 |
| lcuk | easy changes vs harder | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | /usr/local is a much better choice | 22:50 |
| wazd | wow, wordpress can export all the suff in a single db | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | mimics /use | 22:50 |
| javispedro | lcuk: but it looks even uglier :) | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | usr | 22:50 |
| wazd | cool, time to reveal new tabletui then :) | 22:50 |
| lcuk | javispedro, its just a symlink/mountpoint isnt it | 22:51 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I vote for /opt/program and then an apt hook that symlinks everything within it to its /use equivalent ;) | 22:51 |
| * qwerty12_N810 hides | 22:51 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | *usr | 22:51 |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N810: ugh | 22:51 |
| thp | Stskeeps: /usr/local is "in the hands of the admin" and "out of reach for packages" (or at least that's my impression). i.e. where "make install" stuff goes. | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: that's the result tbh | 22:51 |
| * javispedro points qwerty to gobolinux. | 22:51 | |
| AStorm | messy mess | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | thp: sigh.. | 22:51 |
| javispedro | /apps | 22:51 |
| javispedro | and be done with it. | 22:51 |
| * AStorm points Nokia to unionfs | 22:51 | |
| lcuk | what about whole /usr folder :$ | 22:51 |
| thp | what would speak against mounting the 2gb volume as /usr? | 22:52 |
| javispedro | well, gotta go. | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | how does it handle libs installing into /opt/appname? | 22:52 |
| javispedro | again. :) | 22:52 |
| lcuk | thp :) | 22:52 |
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| thp | yeah :) | 22:52 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, have both | 22:52 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: you can add libs into ld.conf | 22:52 |
| lcuk | thats easy | 22:52 |
| kirma | ahh, *something*: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbudocumentcenter.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12804#62 | 22:52 |
| slonopotamus | /opt? you gonna patch each and every app again? | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | ok; but then dpkg / app manager needs to add these things.. | 22:52 |
| kirma | haha, nice *3450* page document on 3400 series | 22:52 |
| argonel | is there any way in to the n800 when its locked, and network is off? i don't want to reflash and erase everything | 22:52 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: yeah, Gobo has its own package manager | 22:53 |
| ShadowJK | slonopotamus, unless they're broken, I don't think they'd need patching? | 22:53 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, its being maintained again from what we hear | 22:53 |
| kirma | I do remember OMAP2 series packed too many features on some chip already :) | 22:53 |
| AStorm | kirma: ? nah. | 22:53 |
| slonopotamus | argonel, that the point of locking :) | 22:53 |
| thp | maybe we should come up with a package that rsyncs the contents of /usr to /opt, then "sed"s /etc/fstab from /opt to /usr and then reboots and be done with it? ;) | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | either way, will someone please start a thread on this and why it really really needs to be documented and discussed | 22:54 |
| lcuk | +100internets | 22:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | thp: This is Maemo? /etc/fstab? ;) | 22:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | kirma, just, FYI, the OMAP3430 is what's in the N900. | 22:54 |
| argonel | slonopotamus: oh. it looks more like the point of locking is to make me hate the device, since i misclicked on the menu. | 22:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the only real difference between OMAP35x stuff and OMAP34x is ball-pitch, a couple of missing proprietary features and distribution channel. | 22:54 |
| AStorm | argonel: the default code is 0000 I think | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | because this is going haywire if people start --prefix=/opt, and we find out it's --prefix=/opt/appname | 22:55 |
| kirma | generalantilles: that I knew thankfully :) | 22:55 |
| argonel | AStorm: the default is 12345, but i must have played it with the day i set i up | 22:55 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, yeah | 22:55 |
| kirma | I mean that it's 3420 | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | did i mention the sedding of .install files we need to do? | 22:56 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, and even after /opt has exploded into a mess people will be flaming eachother about which version is correct | 22:56 |
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| AStorm | argonel: well, not sure if you can drop this lock with the flasher | 22:56 |
| slonopotamus | argonel, is it still locked after reboot? | 22:56 |
| AStorm | worth a try | 22:56 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Why would you sed them? | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | not to think about what happens to /opt at reflash | 22:56 |
| slonopotamus | oh! | 22:56 |
| argonel | slonopotamus: yes, boots to "enter lock code" | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: /usr/share/foo/bar..? | 22:56 |
| argonel | AStorm: apparently the flasher doesn't drop the lock code, but it does unlock it. but then flashing it erases the internal memory | 22:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | .install files just point to a repo and a package | 22:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +name | 22:57 |
| thp | argonel: if you install Mer, it does not ask for the lock code (last time I checked, atleast) | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: debian package .install files | 22:57 |
| AStorm | thp: funny plug | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: debian/foo.install | 22:57 |
| AStorm | argonel: might want to try dropbear ssh for file recovery | 22:57 |
| argonel | someone wrote "There _is_ a way you would have been able to back up all your files, but it involves some familiarity with Linux. Search for fanoush's custom initfs with telnet in these forums." - but i'm not finding anything that doesn't need to be set up beforehand | 22:57 |
| AStorm | (and that USB cable) | 22:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: Ah, thought you meant the Maemo variant. Not dh_install ones. | 22:57 |
| AStorm | argonel: it's possible to set up using the flasher | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: sorry, bit tired :) | 22:58 |
| AStorm | just flash the initfs | 22:58 |
| AStorm | (not the whole flash filesystem) | 22:58 |
| argonel | so i could rewrite the inifs, but not just erase the lock code? cute :) | 22:59 |
| thp | i meant if you dual-boot with mer, the lock code that is set isn't asked when booting into mer | 22:59 |
| AStorm | argonel: yeah, the lock code is kept somewhere in a weird place | 22:59 |
| argonel | i don't even know whats installed on here | 22:59 |
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| argonel | osso-rx-44 2007-49 1 | 23:00 |
| AStorm | oldie, that's chinook | 23:00 |
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| argonel | <-- lazy | 23:01 |
| kirma | at full throttle, OMAP3420 has quite a bit of MIPS/FLOPS going on... it has three processors each capable of issuing bunch of instructions per cycle :I | 23:01 |
| kirma | too bad powervr is so minimally documented. | 23:02 |
| AStorm | powervr? what powervr ;P | 23:02 |
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| ShadowJK | in the omap3 processor | 23:02 |
| AStorm | it still has that? they haven't replaced it? | 23:02 |
| AStorm | damnit! | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | kirma, as I've understood it, the instruction decoder can't keep up? | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, it's another powervr in omap3 than in omap2 | 23:03 |
| kirma | supposedly it's very energy-efficient by design | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | sgx vs mbx or something | 23:03 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: with open drivers? | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | hahaha | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | of course not :) | 23:03 |
| AStorm | yeah. | 23:03 |
| kirma | but yes, I suppose mbx is not programmable, sgx certainly is | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | There hardly exist any 3D cards at all with open drivers | 23:03 |
| kirma | both closed designs | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | oh yeah, intel, I forgot | 23:03 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: and ati | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | for some of the cards | 23:04 |
| AStorm | and nvidia if you squint hard enough | 23:04 |
| AStorm | for all of them | 23:04 |
| AStorm | (2D at least, 3D for older ones and in the works) | 23:04 |
| ShadowJK | maybe I should have said usable drivers :) | 23:04 |
| AStorm | they are very usable | 23:04 |
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| AStorm | heck, I'm using ati right now | 23:05 |
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| AStorm | but those chips are too power hungry | 23:05 |
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| lcuk | people stopped worrying about power on desktops on the whole havent they | 23:06 |
| lcuk | with kw and gw PSUs in vogue | 23:07 |
| lcuk | they dont seem to car | 23:07 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, they sometimes do remember | 23:07 |
| RST38h | lcuk: usually when it starts a fire or accidentally fries their cat | 23:07 |
| lcuk | yeah ofc | 23:07 |
| lcuk | heh | 23:07 |
| lcuk | but it was upgradin ur bytez! | 23:07 |
| Luke-Jr | AStorm: uh, isn't even 2D accel for nVidia only on older cards? | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, it's just the lunatics that have the multi-kW PSUs | 23:07 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK: nopes | 23:08 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Actually it is even funnier on notebooks | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | Depends on what you mean with 2D accel | 23:08 |
| AStorm | I mean Xv and 2D accel ;> | 23:08 |
| Luke-Jr | ShadowJK: Linux 3D accel for ATi cards is plenty usable | 23:08 |
| RST38h | lcuk: My notebook gets so hot that ACPI forces CPU speed down to prevent meltdown | 23:08 |
| lcuk | i run my notebook in powersave anyway | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | On the whole considering intel's GPUs have something like >50% marketshare, I imagine the portion of 200W+ nvidia/ati GPUs in use is quite small :) | 23:08 |
| lcuk | it can practically run fanless | 23:08 |
| lcuk | 600mhz :) | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | AStorm, what do you mean by 2D accel? | 23:09 |
| AStorm | I mean full exa | 23:09 |
| ShadowJK | iirc that's definitely missing | 23:09 |
| AStorm | copy, rotate, scale | 23:09 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I can actually make it run at full speed but then the fan makes threatening noises | 23:09 |
| AStorm | these are done in ati | 23:09 |
| mikkov_ | arrow keys are not fully usable in some localised keyboard layouts http://twitpic.com/ffnk5 | 23:09 |
| lcuk | yikes | 23:09 |
| AStorm | in nouveau, not for all chips | 23:09 |
| RST38h | Like it is going to take off or something | 23:09 |
| RST38h | mikkov: I think we knew that already | 23:10 |
| RST38h | mikkov: Somebody promised the cyrillics at those arrow keys | 23:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, that bastard! | 23:10 |
| mikkov_ | RST38h: well that's good then | 23:10 |
| RST38h | mikkov: Not sure. How would you like roman [B] to be accessible only with SHIFT? | 23:11 |
| kirma | any idea if there is going to be traditional chinese font support by default? | 23:12 |
| mikkov_ | RST38h: eh, I meant that it's good that we knew about layouts | 23:12 |
| wazd | hmmm | 23:12 |
| kirma | (or even input) | 23:12 |
| wazd | left-right under sym? | 23:12 |
| wazd | I mean up-down | 23:12 |
| RST38h | mikkov: Knowing that you are going to be fucked in advance is a small consolation =) | 23:12 |
| wazd | I think people will use up-down more than left right | 23:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: I hope it does not get to that... | 23:12 |
| kirma | mikkov: argh. did they really compromise arrow keys for nordic layout? | 23:13 |
| kirma | arrgh | 23:13 |
| mikkov_ | kirma: haven't you heard about n97 moaning? ;) | 23:13 |
| RST38h | mikkov: another reason to get US version. | 23:13 |
| fuzzy | I can make my n810 moan if I touch it very sensually | 23:14 |
| kirma | I thought they just put the umlaut letters under syms or something | 23:14 |
| mikkov_ | basically you can't use arrow keys for default controls in games | 23:14 |
| kirma | *hopefully* the keyboard working logic can be configured by power users... | 23:14 |
| mikkov_ | or any other keys :( | 23:15 |
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| RST38h | mikkov: You can | 23:15 |
| lcuk | it was in the n810 - i think it will still be selectable | 23:15 |
| mikkov_ | kirma: you can map the keys how ever you like | 23:15 |
| lcuk | afterall - how do nokia change the layout for their needs.. | 23:15 |
| RST38h | mikkov: There is translated and untranslated keycode | 23:15 |
| kirma | mikkov: is there "but" part to that :P | 23:15 |
| lcuk | no | 23:16 |
| RST38h | mikkov: As long as you are using untranslated keycodes, you are fine | 23:16 |
| mikkov_ | RST38h: hmm, ok sounds good | 23:16 |
| lcuk | RST38h, but thats for this hardware | 23:16 |
| lcuk | keycodes can and do change | 23:16 |
| RST38h | mikkov: I am more concerned about how you will use those arrow keys to kick buddies while holding your tablet by the corner :) | 23:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: with hardware changes, they can | 23:17 |
| mikkov_ | RST38h: well, that's another problem :) | 23:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: but at least you can be sure that they stay the same on all n900 | 23:17 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: truly? not like that damned German version? | 23:18 |
| AStorm | with umlauts painted and Fn symbols changed? | 23:18 |
| AStorm | and qwertz | 23:18 |
| RST38h | AStorm: I do not think this all affects the actual low level keycodes | 23:18 |
| AStorm | it doesn't, makes it all worse | 23:18 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Symbian is funny about this | 23:18 |
| lcuk | yeah rst, the rx-51 will have same internal keycodes throughout - and just get mapped to countries as required | 23:19 |
| RST38h | AStorm: It uses semi-userland entities to translate keys | 23:19 |
| kirma | I don't think nokia has done more than key marking differences for phones that are sold under same model name on different markets anyway | 23:19 |
| lcuk | kirma, which like? | 23:19 |
| kirma | and it's rather understandable why, although it can lead to this kind of brain-damaged situations | 23:19 |
| RST38h | AStorm: And the low level keycodes for the same keys differ across phone models, but very slightly | 23:19 |
| AStorm | ugh | 23:20 |
| Luke-Jr | wtf | 23:20 |
| Luke-Jr | I sure hope the kernel can detect the layout :/ | 23:20 |
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| RST38h | kirma: making you press shift for up/down will cause an uproar | 23:20 |
| lcuk | RST38h, thinking wrong | 23:21 |
| lcuk | its only games | 23:21 |
| lcuk | and you said workarounds | 23:21 |
| kirma | is the keycode mapping controlled by standard X facilities? if so, changing the mode logic should be pretty straight-forward... | 23:21 |
| RST38h | kirma: it is | 23:21 |
| mikkov_ | arrow keys can be very helpful in text editing too | 23:22 |
| RST38h | mikkov: vi! | 23:22 |
| * qwerty12_N810 would've liked a little jog-wheel thingy for up/down | 23:22 | |
| kirma | the keyboard lacks esc key ;> | 23:22 |
| RST38h | qwerty: would you use it to play games too? :) | 23:22 |
| mikkov_ | RST38h: i'm sure that modest doesn't support vi keys :) | 23:22 |
| RST38h | kirma: Aaaaargh! There is not escape! We are all gonna die!!! | 23:22 |
| kirma | :) | 23:23 |
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| lcuk | lol RST38h | 23:23 |
| lcuk | there is no escape | 23:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | RST38h: Good point =). But I want it anyway ;P | 23:23 |
| lcuk | and there is no cancel | 23:23 |
| RST38h | mikkov:modest.... ... ... | 23:23 |
| javispedro | remoo again. | 23:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wb, javispedro | 23:23 |
| javispedro | so we have consensus? | 23:23 |
| RST38h | heya javis | 23:23 |
| javispedro | we install the apps into /mnt/by/category/games/by/name/openttd/* ? | 23:23 |
| RST38h | yes, but do we have quorum? | 23:24 |
| RST38h | we install all the games into openttd/? | 23:24 |
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| javispedro | that'd be my plan. then I get to filter which apps I allow to be installed in everyone's N900. | 23:25 |
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| DrNokJobs | muahahaha | 23:25 |
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| * lcuk doesnt like spraying the filesystem with loads of files | 23:26 | |
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| lcuk | javispedro, damn you | 23:27 |
| lcuk | we had moved on from that | 23:27 |
| * RST38h slays DrNokJobs with a holy scythe of apple harvesting | 23:27 | |
| * javispedro reads the logs | 23:28 | |
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| AndreiD | Hello! | 23:32 |
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| AndreiD | Quick question: will there be support for PGP keys in the mail client of Maemo 5? | 23:33 |
| AndreiD | or any types or certificates for that matter? | 23:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | AndreiD, dunno offhand, but if not it should be reasonably straightforward to add as a plugin. | 23:35 |
| AndreiD | I just thought I'd ask in here, since there's no specific info on the website | 23:36 |
| AndreiD | Thanks for the answer :) | 23:36 |
| javispedro | the mail client is called "modest". | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, the svn is on Garage. | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | You could dig there. ;) | 23:36 |
| AndreiD | javispedro: Thanks for the tip! ;) | 23:37 |
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| javispedro | GeneralAntilles AndreiD: https://git.maemo.org/?p=modest;a=summary | 23:37 |
| AndreiD | Cool, thanks a lot! | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is it in git now? | 23:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Interesting. | 23:38 |
| javispedro | seems so | 23:38 |
| argonel | ok, maybe i'm a little dense, but all of the methods for changing the initfs seem to require the work to be done in root on the device.. | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | argonel, yes. | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the question? | 23:38 |
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| argonel | GeneralAntilles: i selected the wrong menu item, locked the n800, don't know the passcode (its not default), don't want to erase the flash contents. told i could just reflash the initfs to enable dual boot or dropbear ssh, but can't find a way to do it from without | 23:40 |
| qwerty12_N810 | argonel: You're already running an old-ass version of OS2008 anyway. Bite the bullet and just reflash. :) | 23:40 |
| AndreiD | Thanks again and see your around! | 23:40 |
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| argonel | qwerty12_N810: there are a couple of passwords stored on it i don't want to do without... | 23:40 |
| erik__ | hey folks, what is the base class for the desktop widget ? | 23:41 |
| erik__ | is there a sample code somewhere ? | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | argonel, so did you try 12345? | 23:41 |
| argonel | stupidly i didn't expect that the device would just instantly and irretreivably lock when i selected the wrong menu item | 23:41 |
| argonel | ShadowJK: yes | 23:41 |
| ShadowJK | I tried to lock my used N800 once, and it refused unless I entered the correct lock code, which I don't have :) | 23:41 |
| argonel | yeah, i was a bit pissed that it didn't ask | 23:42 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ShadowJK: http://austinche.name/maemo/getlockcode :) | 23:42 |
| argonel | for all i know, the code could be nothing, which i can't enter in this box | 23:42 |
| mavhc | it asks the first time you try to lock it I think | 23:43 |
| argonel | which was back in 2007 :( | 23:43 |
| javispedro | lol, Gobolinux plans to redo itself using FUSE. | 23:44 |
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| * GeneralAntilles hadn't realized maemo.org was an open source project. http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo/open-source/ :roll: | 23:57 | |
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| javispedro | they make it sound like if maemo.org was the base distro :S | 23:58 |
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