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| jeremiah | I saw wormux come into the builder recently. | 00:18 |
|---|---|---|
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| jeremiah | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/wormux_0.8.4-0maemo3/summary.log | 00:19 |
| mikkov_ | VDVsx: it works otherwise but sound is crashing https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5001 | 00:19 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, does the world fall down if i have the wrong sized icons in the icon cache folders? | 00:19 |
| jeremiah | Nope | 00:19 |
| lcuk | cool | 00:19 |
| jeremiah | They just look bad, I think. | 00:19 |
| lcuk | so if i only have one size of icon it will just do the best it can | 00:20 |
| jeremiah | but it should be trivial to re-size, no? | 00:20 |
| VDVsx | mikkov_, ogg issue then ? | 00:20 |
| lcuk | ill have to look if ive got the original svg | 00:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | There's a cheat way actually if you can't be arsed to resize. | 00:20 |
| lcuk | lol | 00:20 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N810, you know me too well :P | 00:20 |
| jeremiah | heh | 00:20 |
| lcuk | i saw the sun icons in liqtorch | 00:20 |
| mikkov_ | VDVsx: for some reason libsdl-mixeroggwav doesn't work | 00:21 |
| VDVsx | my sbox sound is also broken :( | 00:21 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Place icon in /usr/share/pixmaps and /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/ and hildon-desktop'll do the resizing | 00:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | ^ lcuk | 00:21 |
| lcuk | o_O nice | 00:21 |
| mikkov_ | VDVsx: hard to say what's wrong, it works in sbox x86 target with sound | 00:21 |
| lcuk | i might just go for the splatter approach | 00:21 |
| lcuk | and resize anyway | 00:21 |
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| lcuk | psp old version doesnt like to do transparent resaves | 00:22 |
| lcuk | it always loses it | 00:22 |
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| jaem | hmm... is there any easy way on Diablo to keep an osso-xterm instance preloaded in memory, like the quicklaunch features that Konqueror and OOo have? | 00:24 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: Do you need to something in /usr/share/pixmaps? | 00:25 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: I never put anything there | 00:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mikkov_: for the cheat way, yes. | 00:26 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: I usually put only one icon to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/ | 00:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mikkov_: same. I just put icons in the correct 26x26, 48x48, and scalable folders | 00:26 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, interesting, thanks | 00:26 |
| mikkov_ | I don't know if it right thing to do, but works for me | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Heh, hildon-desktop should just use /usr/share/pixmaps... it'd save a lot of bother :) | 00:28 |
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| mikkov_ | yeah, icons and .service and .desktop files take too much time. There's always something wrong with them | 00:30 |
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| Captain_Picard | hi, anyone know if wine is gonna be ported to arm architecture | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | well | 00:31 |
| zerojayPC | It won't be. | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | it'd have to be wincee | 00:31 |
| SpeedEvil | wine is not an emulator. | 00:31 |
| Captain_Picard | or if it will be possible to run a windows application on maemo, got intrested if i could use a navigation program :D | 00:32 |
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| zerojayPC | No. | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a compatibility layer which translates windows calls onto linux ones. | 00:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | It does not emulate the program at all - the program runs natively. | 00:32 |
| zerojayPC | The N900 will have it's own maps app with free navigation already installed anyways. | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | zerojayPC: by free do you mean OSM - or some paid-for map? | 00:32 |
| Captain_Picard | free navi just for a limited period? | 00:33 |
| Captain_Picard | nokia ovi maps is like pay to play | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | wine can't be "ported" to the ARM architechture. wine is not an emulator. What one might be able to do though, is run wine under qemu-userspace | 00:33 |
| jeremiah | OSM works like a charm on my N810 | 00:33 |
| zerojayPC | Supposed to be Nokia/Ovi Maps and told that it was free, so.. dunno. | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: wince - wine could in principle work. | 00:33 |
| jeremiah | You can use MaemoMapper which is free and put whatever map source you want in it | 00:33 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, yeah but wine doesn't implement wince :) | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | jeremiah: yeah - it really depends quite highly where you are. My garden for example is very well mapped. | 00:33 |
| jeremiah | SpeedEvil: That is true. :] | 00:34 |
| ShadowJK | I bet you get a year or two of free navigation with the N900 | 00:34 |
| aol_ | I hate Nokia for not providing Map API like Google does on Android | 00:34 |
| Captain_Picard | lol i doubt my marine naval chart would work good on maemo mapper :D | 00:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Including even the snowmobile track. | 00:34 |
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| zerojayPC | http://maemo.nokia.com/features/ovi-maps/ | 00:35 |
| Captain_Picard | yes but is the ovi-maps free? | 00:35 |
| zerojayPC | I remember seeing that it's free... don't remember where though. | 00:36 |
| Captain_Picard | i dont like monthly fees .. | 00:36 |
| javispedro | Captain_Picard, maemo mapper can be used as a raster map application | 00:36 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, same pricing scheme as S60 | 00:36 |
| GAN8001 | Yearly, quarterly or monthly. | 00:36 |
| aol_ | probably comes with a year free regional subscription for navigation | 00:36 |
| GAN8001 | Routing costs money | 00:36 |
| Captain_Picard | GAN8001: yeh thats why im not intrested | 00:36 |
| GAN8001 | Everything else is free. | 00:36 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, then use Maemo Mapper and call it a day. | 00:36 |
| aol_ | I love to use Nokia Maps on my S60 phones... just not interested in the routing | 00:37 |
| Captain_Picard | id rather get a program that i can pay once get full map be happy with it | 00:37 |
| * GAN8001 shrugs. | 00:37 | |
| doc|home | there's bound to be something tha tuses openstreet maps | 00:37 |
| GAN8001 | Nokia provides you with free updates. | 00:37 |
| doc|home | *that uses | 00:37 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Is gnuite doing a Fremantle build of Maemo Mapper? | 00:37 |
| GAN8001 | Whereas most one-time-fee devices go out of date rather rapidly. | 00:37 |
| ShadowJK | doc|home, maemomapper uses osm ;) | 00:37 |
| doc|home | ShadowJK: can you do routing with it? | 00:38 |
| Captain_Picard | lol i been happy with and old tomtom with old maps for a long time | 00:38 |
| Captain_Picard | sadly it broke now | 00:38 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, I saw in twitter other guy trying a port | 00:38 |
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| ShadowJK | doc|home, yeah it uses google for routing | 00:38 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, via quimgil | 00:38 |
| ShadowJK | (internet required) | 00:38 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: couldn't care less, I don't follow twitter :) | 00:38 |
| doc|home | ShadowJK: :/ would like something without a net connection but better than nothing | 00:38 |
| Captain_Picard | well, tell me if anyone of you knows another navi program for maemo | 00:39 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, ok, you will miss the big news :P | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | It's much less of a limitation now that N900 will have its own gsm+3g :) | 00:39 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, Ovi Maps is only about $70 a year | 00:39 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Nah, I'll make you tell me the news ;) | 00:40 |
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| doc|home | ShadowJK: that depends entirely on data plan costs :/ | 00:40 |
| ShadowJK | I guess :) | 00:40 |
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| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, payment in beers ? we have a deal ;) | 00:40 |
| Captain_Picard | GAN8001: bought that tomtom for about 120 dollars included the device + 1 year updates | 00:41 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: I may be able to stretch to a Coke can or two ;) | 00:41 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, don't know what to tell you, then. | 00:42 |
| GAN8001 | Buy another TomTom. | 00:42 |
| Captain_Picard | GAN8001: doesnt sound very good, i pay 600 euros for device i hafto pay 70 dollars a year ? | 00:42 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, again, I don't know what to tell you. | 00:42 |
| GAN8001 | Things cost money. | 00:42 |
| doc|home | Captain_Picard: then don't pay it | 00:42 |
| doc|home | Captain_Picard: you're not forced to | 00:42 |
| GAN8001 | If you want free, then you want Maemo Mapper. | 00:42 |
| zerojayPC | Captain_Picard: I guess you don't expect to pay for a phone plan either? :) | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN8001: some things cost money. | 00:43 |
| Captain_Picard | im not here to talk about that, im just curious about possibilities to use other navigation software | 00:43 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, coke is bad for my health, doctor told me to drink beer instead ;) | 00:43 |
| GAN8001 | Maemo Mapper or Ovi Maps. | 00:43 |
| GAN8001 | Each has their own pros and cons. | 00:43 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, it'll probably come with 30 days free. | 00:43 |
| GAN8001 | So try the trial, then decide. | 00:43 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: Alcopop or nothing | 00:44 |
| Captain_Picard | i hope some firm is going to make a maemo navigator with no montly fees | 00:44 |
| Captain_Picard | the device itself is perfect | 00:45 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, too strong for me :P | 00:45 |
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| lardman|afk | my word, I go away for a little while and Star Trek is back from the future and qwerty12_N810 is risking London's finest by drinking alcopops | 00:46 |
| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman | 00:46 | |
| * qwerty12_N810 wouldn't pay a monthly fee to use navigation, but he has no problem with an exorbitant fee for a lifetime license. But, fuck it, I don't even have a car | 00:47 | |
| jeremiah | That is illogical, lardman | 00:47 |
| Captain_Picard | sad that all good navigation software are not open source | 00:47 |
| lcuk | i do not pay monthly for navigation. i pay for the time i need it. | 00:47 |
| lardman | I reckon a monthly fee to use, as long as it's enabled month my month when you need it | 00:47 |
| lcuk | 90% of time we drive on same roads | 00:47 |
| lcuk | that we dont need routing | 00:47 |
| lardman | jeremiah: that;s captain to you ;) | 00:47 |
| lcuk | the rest of the time, we purchase a weekly/monlthy ticket | 00:47 |
| lardman | or even daily would be fine by me | 00:48 |
| lcuk | Captain_Picard, the software is complex. i do not mind paying smart people for good code. | 00:48 |
| lardman | normally it's one day and I need to go somewhere, or get past an accident, etc | 00:48 |
| wazd | Monthly fee for navigation is absolutely ridiculous | 00:48 |
| wazd | I bought software, I use it | 00:48 |
| lardman | hmm, I don't need navigation hints most of the time though | 00:49 |
| Captain_Picard | wazd: yeh thats my point | 00:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | wazd: Indeed. Do ma | 00:49 |
| lardman | so it's wasted money | 00:49 |
| Captain_Picard | waste of money to use ovi maps | 00:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *Do map updates come as part of the monthly fee? | 00:49 |
| wazd | That's just greedy bastard's business model | 00:49 |
| lardman | do they charge? Did I miss that? | 00:49 |
| Captain_Picard | sure, but who cares of map updates | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | Realistically though, if it comes with 2 year's free navigation, you'll have bought a new device with free navigation by the time it runs out ;P | 00:49 |
| lardman | I do for roads | 00:49 |
| Captain_Picard | the road network doesnt change that much | 00:49 |
| wazd | If I want updated map - I buy updated map | 00:49 |
| lcuk | you do you pillock when you rely on it | 00:49 |
| Captain_Picard | wazd: *word* | 00:50 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hmm, that's not so bad, then... | 00:50 |
| lcuk | wazd - do what i do then | 00:50 |
| lardman | oi, enough of the pregnant fish | 00:50 |
| lcuk | keep a large single map of where you need to be | 00:50 |
| wazd | I don't use any server or cell station or whatever to use GPS, who the fuck I'm paying to | 00:50 |
| lcuk | i have done it for each country ive visited so far | 00:50 |
| lardman | can someone refresh me, what's the price? | 00:51 |
| lcuk | i think it was based on old model lol | 00:51 |
| lcuk | i dont think anyone knows | 00:51 |
| wazd | I just don't understand, for what companies are charging users | 00:51 |
| Captain_Picard | yeh the ovi-maps buisness model is flawed | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, of? | 00:51 |
| lardman | Ovi-maps | 00:51 |
| Captain_Picard | they should tell people its based on monthly fees | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | dunno, I'm still on my free years :) | 00:51 |
| Captain_Picard | on the mameo n900 site | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | (on my E75's maps) | 00:51 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: ah, so some free ones come with the phone then? | 00:52 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Wayfinder was a shithole though, I pity anyone who paid monthly for that | 00:52 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: or you pay for new maps? | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | wazd: the maps | 00:52 |
| Captain_Picard | lots of my friends are thinking of buying n900 also and belive they get free navigation software with it | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, on nokia's Symbian high-end phones, you get something like a year of free navigation | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | wazd: maps cost to generate and license. | 00:52 |
| lardman | and after that, what's the cost? | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | the year starts from the first time you use it for routing | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, hm, not sure | 00:52 |
| ShadowJK | I'll check on my older phone | 00:52 |
| lardman | np | 00:52 |
| lardman | I bought Wayfinder lifetime licence for £30 | 00:53 |
| ShadowJK | it has Maps 2.0.. it isn't exactly equivalent to ovimaps/3.0 | 00:53 |
| mikkov_ | some of the "navigator" models have lifetime licence | 00:53 |
| javispedro | http://europe.nokia.com/explore-services/maps/prices_and_coverage/pricing-tables-navigable | 00:53 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: I buy the map | 00:53 |
| Captain_Picard | maps costs to generate and license they can still be sold with a one time payment | 00:53 |
| lardman | it works ok, bit slow and old maps and I'd hate to use it one handed | 00:53 |
| lcuk | wazd, osm | 00:53 |
| wazd | SpeedEvil: then I use it as much as I want | 00:53 |
| SpeedEvil | wazd: in some cases you buy the map. | 00:53 |
| lcuk | dont stop being a penny pincher. use the maps there for us | 00:53 |
| lardman | lcuk: not the best quality | 00:53 |
| SpeedEvil | wazd: In some cases you buy the rights to use the map for a given period. | 00:53 |
| lcuk | lardman, thats our fault then | 00:54 |
| lardman | yeah | 00:54 |
| lcuk | osm2go will be available for n900 | 00:54 |
| lcuk | we can help | 00:54 |
| SpeedEvil | wazd: the less rights you have to use the map data - the cheaper it is for nokia or whoever to license. | 00:54 |
| lcuk | improve your local map | 00:54 |
| lcuk | so wazd can have his dream | 00:54 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: If only it had a magnetometer. | 00:54 |
| lcuk | wazd | 00:54 |
| lardman | Well Bath is already really good, no thanks to me, but I don';t need a map here either! | 00:54 |
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| lcuk | if we can find decent routing then its possible | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: But even without that - the camera + GPS + enough screen to meaningfully do editing = win | 00:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Do OSM accept brothels as POIs? | 00:55 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: to detect buried treasure? | 00:55 |
| lcuk | the algo is something i remember on amiga | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | qwerty12_N810: yes | 00:55 |
| lcuk | seeing map routing stuff there | 00:55 |
| qwerty12_N810 | *grin* | 00:55 |
| lcuk | it branches out from source to desk | 00:55 |
| lcuk | its a lovely thing to see | 00:55 |
| lcuk | to dest | 00:55 |
| lcuk | from both ends | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: stand in location known by GPS - pointed at a given direction - known by magnetometer + accel | 00:55 |
| lardman | compass? | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: take pic of streetsign - automatically OCRd - and ready to add to the street | 00:56 |
| lardman | that would be good | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, week:5.95 month:7.65 year:59.99 | 00:56 |
| lardman | GBP? | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | eur | 00:56 |
| lardman | not too bad | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-August/040675.html | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | that's what it told me when I tried to activate navigation on maps 2.0 :) | 00:56 |
| lcuk | how much are proper OS maps nowadays | 00:56 |
| javispedro | http://europe.nokia.com/explore-services/maps/prices_and_coverage/pricing-tables-navigable | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | oh wait, it's actually 1.2 | 00:57 |
| lardman | nice | 00:57 |
| javispedro | ^^ check the url | 00:57 |
| lcuk | http://leisure.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/products/paper-maps/paper-maps-ordnance-survey-great-britain/paper-maps-ordnance-survey-great-britain-os-explorer-active-map/manchester-and-salford/pid-9780319466155 | 00:57 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: sort of like the mapping vans that drive around doing the pay-for maps :) | 00:57 |
| lcuk | ok £13.99 for a local paper map of manchester | 00:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | lardman: yes. | 00:58 |
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| lcuk | if i were travelling to a destination for a couple of weeks | 00:58 |
| lcuk | the price seems more than reasonable | 00:58 |
| lardman | well if someone put up a page saying use this hw, run this sw and upload the data I'm sure people would take part | 00:58 |
| lardman | editting the maps manually puts me off | 00:58 |
| lcuk | what kind of editing | 00:59 |
| lcuk | we need routes | 00:59 |
| lcuk | and paths | 00:59 |
| lcuk | and tracks | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: as an aside - I'm currently trying to design a pod that magnetically clamps to a car - and takes panos at 5m intervals for my local town. 500G or so | 00:59 |
| lardman | javispedro: wow, for the whole of Europe too. Not too bad imo | 00:59 |
| lcuk | and a copilot to poke at road types | 00:59 |
| lcuk | nothing more complex really | 00:59 |
| lcuk | gps gives us speeds | 00:59 |
| javispedro | well, being used to the garmin 190€ ripoff, sounds good. | 00:59 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: POIs, streetsigns | 00:59 |
| lcuk | copilot says "a" "b" "dc" "m" | 00:59 |
| lcuk | TMI | 00:59 |
| javispedro | (that was long ago btw, dunno what their current prices are) | 01:00 |
| lcuk | too dificult to put in on the go | 01:00 |
| lcuk | quick, light simple | 01:00 |
| GAN8001 | lol | 01:00 |
| lcuk | crest can be filled in later | 01:00 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, dunno where you live, but roads change all of the time here. | 01:00 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, it's needing either the copilot, or to edit the tracks after the fact that is time consuming. If the signs could be deciphered (or even just displayed to remind you) that would be far easier | 01:00 |
| lcuk | fuck signs | 01:00 |
| lcuk | we need mic input | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: it's actually quite possible to do. Especially on bike. | 01:00 |
| lcuk | "dual carriageway" | 01:00 |
| lcuk | "motorway" | 01:00 |
| MaceN8x0 | hi | 01:00 |
| lcuk | "a627" | 01:00 |
| lcuk | entering | 01:00 |
| lcuk | leaving | 01:00 |
| lcuk | simple voice commands | 01:01 |
| lcuk | no copilot | 01:01 |
| lardman | well just saying that at my normal cruising speed gives a circle of uncertainty of 200m ;) | 01:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | 1 more month til n900 is sold out | 01:01 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:01 |
| javispedro | hmmm... yummy useless but cool 3d buildings. | 01:01 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 01:01 |
| lcuk | lol | 01:01 |
| lcuk | that can come after tho | 01:01 |
| lcuk | when someone plays sims and creates houses on plots | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the problem is you're missing the point. | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the signs are the hard part to get - not the easy part. | 01:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | how to put maemo 5 on iphone? | 01:02 |
| lcuk | why are you needing to get them | 01:02 |
| javispedro | MaceN8x0, virgins. | 01:02 |
| lcuk | i know the names of the roads | 01:02 |
| lcuk | or i can shout them out | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: the driving round and getting a grid/... is easy. Without POIs and streetnames, and ... it's largely useless | 01:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 01:02 |
| SpeedEvil | There is audio functionality in JOSM | 01:02 |
| lardman | lcuk: true, fine for your area | 01:03 |
| lcuk | you have levels of information | 01:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | i have to run bootmenu again | 01:03 |
| lcuk | someone driving cannot give such minute details | 01:03 |
| lcuk | but someone can go over later | 01:03 |
| lardman | adding direction information and speed would be good (once if's finished) to allow better routing | 01:03 |
| lcuk | but the drivers course and heading and speed are important factors | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Autoconverting from GPS traces also has problems. | 01:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | just to rm the gentoo entry | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | GPS traces aren't ideal. | 01:04 |
| lardman | reflections? | 01:04 |
| lcuk | same thing | 01:04 |
| lcuk | that is post processing | 01:04 |
| lcuk | by someone good at touching up | 01:04 |
| lardman | but again needs time | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/josm.png | 01:04 |
| lardman | should ideally be automated, otherwise people won't bother | 01:04 |
| lcuk | if you force EVERYBODY to be good at every job they will do poorly | 01:04 |
| lardman | that's my reason anywa | 01:04 |
| lardman | y | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | This shows 20 or so traces along the top. | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | And one trace where I went round a new estate. | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | The pink line is one GPS - the white the other | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | The pink GPS was reporting good signal and low error | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | GPSs were next to each other | 01:05 |
| lcuk | cool | 01:05 |
| lardman | so the answer? Look at the reported error level, or just get lots of data and take the median? | 01:06 |
| lcuk | just keep building up runs whilst driving naturally | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: It depends. | 01:06 |
| lcuk | the pathways we humans take will emerge | 01:06 |
| lcuk | and random offs will vanish | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: a _LARGE_ fraction of germany has been mapped. | 01:06 |
| oli | btw, someone could update maemo mapper's map repo - google sat/street has changed a little | 01:06 |
| Captain_Picard | anyone know if there is somekind of software connecting maemo and pc? | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: For some reason germans like mapping. | 01:07 |
| lcuk | yeah ssh | 01:07 |
| Captain_Picard | lika symbian as pc suite | 01:07 |
| GAN8001 | PC Suite. . . . | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, this looks a bit like when I've had tracking enabled in maemomapper, and the GPS has drawn lines when I've drive down a road on separate occasions :) | 01:07 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: although exact positions are ideal, the mapping programs will need to take into account that other GPSes will not track the roads exactly, so it probably doesn't matter too much I guess | 01:07 |
| Captain_Picard | im just curious what nokia delivers | 01:07 |
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| MaceN8x0 | wow that is a gay nick | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | nobody sane uses PC suite, with anything :) | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - it'll be seperated by 10m or so max. The above pic was to show that someitmes it _really_ does not follow the roads. | 01:07 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: didn't one of the commercial providers donate their maps for Germany? | 01:07 |
| Captain_Picard | MaceN8x0: glad you like it | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: no - that was .nl | 01:08 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, your track has illuminated it for me | 01:08 |
| lcuk | im deffo gonna be recording tracks i make and playing :) | 01:08 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: ah ok | 01:08 |
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| * lcuk will find the ideal racing line home | 01:08 | |
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| lcuk | heh | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: Germany seems to have been largely mapped in a couple of years. I'm unsure if this can be pushed elsewhere. A good app for phones could help. | 01:09 |
| lcuk | would be cool to have 2 GPSes on car :O | 01:09 |
| lcuk | :O:O:O | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: the tools are really quite rapidly improving. | 01:09 |
| Captain_Picard | how will the n900 show up if i plug it into the computer with usb? | 01:09 |
| lardman | really though, if I could setup a camera to even just play back images where I want on the track, I'd happily take part | 01:09 |
| lcuk | one at front and one at back :D | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I've gone out with 3 :) | 01:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | lcuk, why? | 01:09 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: yes, I'll have to take a look | 01:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | just to have 2? | 01:09 |
| lcuk | to get better avarage position | 01:10 |
| javispedro | Captain_Picard, n810 shows up as mass storage class by default. | 01:10 |
| ShadowJK | Captain_Picard, the previous devices showed up as mass-storage device. Also can show up as ethernet device | 01:10 |
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| MaceN8x0 | lcuk, haha | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: you can with a normal camera - you take a pic of the GPS to get a time sync. - any pics you then take show up automatically geotagged in the editors. | 01:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | you would a better positioning system | 01:10 |
| GAN8001 | Captain_Picard, PC Suite should support tethering, too. | 01:10 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: not really what I want to be doing while driving along at 70mph though | 01:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | not two gpses | 01:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | ;) | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: true. | 01:11 |
| lardman | esp as we get fined and points for using phones or eating chocolate these days | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: though I've simply mounted a camera with a GPS mount pointed through the window - which worked well - with shutter button pressed down | 01:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | lardman, have you tried the carman stuff? | 01:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | it is pretty sweet with the obd2 cable | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: 1024*768 pics at 1fps or so worked well | 01:12 |
| lardman | MaceN8x0: no, I assumed it was only OBD2 stuff | 01:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | does maps too | 01:12 |
| lardman | MaceN8x0: my connector is between my knees, so not ideal for driving :) | 01:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | and has pidgen support for tracking friends | 01:12 |
| lardman | that's cool | 01:12 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lardman: I won't ask | 01:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | it's bt | 01:12 |
| MaceN8x0 | just run it away under the dasg | 01:13 |
| MaceN8x0 | dash | 01:13 |
| MaceN8x0 | the cable | 01:13 |
| aol_ | jesus, the Maemo SDK is frustrating to install 1st time :( | 01:13 |
| pillar | aol yep, I agree | 01:13 |
| aol_ | so many of the instructions dont work as they're supposed to, and always have to find out what's wrong | 01:13 |
| MaceN8x0 | lardman, it is nice | 01:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | especially if you have friends with it | 01:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | reminds me of need for speed | 01:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | heh | 01:14 |
| lardman | hmm, the obd2 thingies were expensive last time I looked, but I was tempted | 01:14 |
| aol_ | I hope I get my Hildon UI visible soon | 01:14 |
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| MaceN8x0 | 169$ | 01:14 |
| MaceN8x0 | probably less | 01:15 |
| lardman | expensive | 01:15 |
| MaceN8x0 | thats ccheap | 01:15 |
| lardman | hmm | 01:15 |
| javispedro | hmm... wormux is still using the install-to-internal-card thing. | 01:15 |
| aol_ | the OBD2 are nowadays 50 euros | 01:15 |
| pillar | aol I installed the image and was able to get it working, but unsure of how to add qt-support | 01:15 |
| lardman | not so bad then, need to check on that port position. Google here I come | 01:16 |
| mikkov_ | javispedro: it is. If you have some real info of the filesystem, please share :) | 01:17 |
| javispedro | mikkov_, nope, I was trying to steal some from your source ;) | 01:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | mikkov_: Are you using maemo-confirm-text? :) | 01:17 |
| javispedro | he's not | 01:17 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: no questions asked | 01:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah, thanks | 01:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I just saw how maemo-confirm-text is done in Fremantle and had a WTF moment | 01:18 |
| mikkov_ | it will fail to install if mmc is not usable | 01:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I should push Zenity... | 01:18 |
| javispedro | already there | 01:19 |
| javispedro | but i've read the nokia guidelines and they now recommend a "no questions asked" policy too | 01:19 |
| javispedro | s/nokia// | 01:19 |
| infobot | javispedro meant: but i've read the guidelines and they now recommend a "no questions asked" policy too | 01:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/z/zenity/ doesn't exist | 01:20 |
| qwerty12_N810 | But you make a fair point with the "no questions asked" policy | 01:20 |
| javispedro | lol, you are right, i am in the diablo sdk | 01:20 |
| javispedro | :P thanks for noticing | 01:20 |
| javispedro | damn me used to the prompt and not paying attention to it ;) | 01:20 |
| javispedro | well, for now i will just install to rootfs. | 01:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I'm just installing to /usr/share/ as always... if the N900 has a gig of space for applications, like it says in the specs, then I don't see how it's a problem. | 01:22 |
| lardman | hmm, not so bad, under the ashtray so Google tells me | 01:22 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: which specs? | 01:23 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: or where, exactly? | 01:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hmm, I'm misreading the specs | 01:24 |
| mikkov_ | there's 768MB NAND memory, but i don't know how it's partitioned | 01:24 |
| javispedro | well, it may be a problem for a 50 MiB _compressed_ file (wormux-data hint hint ;) ) | 01:25 |
| qwerty12_N810 | I don't get how saving to /home/user can be fine :) | 01:25 |
| javispedro | yeah, the removed the MyDocs/.games dir didnt'they? | 01:26 |
| javispedro | it's not on the sdk | 01:26 |
| lardman | aol_: still ~£100 for the UK | 01:26 |
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| lardman | for a BT version that is | 01:27 |
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| javispedro | now where i'm going to put all the user stuff | 01:28 |
| javispedro | bah, hidden folders again. | 01:28 |
| aol_ | lardman: yeah OBDKey is expensive | 01:28 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Didn't notice come think of it, but when I told Transmission to save to /home/user/MyDocs, qgil said he still kept getting "Permission denied" errors, but "/home/user/Downloads" (Transmission's default) worked fine. I'm confused because, with the exception of the Terminal, Diablo tried to hide /home/user | 01:28 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12_N810: that I didn't understant too | 01:29 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, that may be because MyDocs is on FAT32 | 01:29 |
| lardman | aol_: all the recommended ones come out about the same though | 01:29 |
| lardman | aol_: I can't justify that sort of money for something that does little more than the GPS (I don;t need the technical info thankfully, touch wood!) | 01:30 |
| javispedro | hm.. the SDK continues to hide /home/user | 01:30 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Maybe we should interrogate Andre through a series of bugs ;) | 01:30 |
| aol_ | lardman: knockoffs are 20-50£ in ebay.co.uk | 01:31 |
| mikkov_ | filesystem structure would be pretty important to know :) | 01:31 |
| andre__ | qwerty12_N810, hell yesh! | 01:31 |
| lardman | aol_: oh right, well interesting, but will add it to the end of my todo list :) | 01:31 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hehe, evening andre__ :) | 01:31 |
| aol_ | lardman: yeah I guess carman OBD2 is just for serious car geeks :) | 01:31 |
| aol_ | lardman: my software also supports the OBD2, but not fault codes etc... just data logging for motorsports :) | 01:32 |
| lardman | 10 years ago I would have done it for sure, my PhD was automotive engineering | 01:32 |
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| Andy80 | hi all | 01:32 |
| javispedro | we need filesystem structure, dmesg, | 01:33 |
| javispedro | what else... | 01:33 |
| VDVsx | BT | 01:33 |
| lardman | list of modules | 01:33 |
| qwerty12_N810 | The list of icons in /usr/share/icons | 01:33 |
| javispedro | tell qgil to install sshd and leave it on | 01:33 |
| javispedro | ;) | 01:33 |
| VDVsx | ehhehe | 01:34 |
| aol_ | lardman: Not sure if this interests your, but it might: http://www.racechrono.com/ , planning to port this for Maemo | 01:34 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, let's do a app for that ;) | 01:34 |
| javispedro | lol | 01:34 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Add x11vnc and a respective init script to OpenTTD ;) | 01:34 |
| VDVsx | lololol | 01:34 |
| javispedro | upload "DoNotInstallMe" app to extras | 01:34 |
| lardman | aol_: I know people were looking at GPS based data acquisition but it wasn't really accurate enough | 01:34 |
| javispedro | and then see eldar and all those who got a prototype device install it ;) | 01:35 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: Not "Free XXX"? ;) | 01:35 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, touché :) | 01:35 |
| aol_ | lardman: depends just on accuracy of the GPS ... | 01:35 |
| lardman | yes, and update rate also | 01:35 |
| aol_ | not really the update rate so much | 01:35 |
| aol_ | 5 Hz would be enough if it was accurate :) | 01:36 |
| pperrn | hi. Need some help here. I was developing on diablo sometime ago, and try to improve the code that i did last time, recently. I reflashed my n810 to the latest diablo image, and try to install my application. It installs fine (using dpkg -i), and it runs the first time. But when i reinstall it the second time, the application does not seem to run anymore. Am I missing sth here? Could anyone help me? | 01:36 |
| lardman | aol_: well 5Hz is more than standard | 01:36 |
| aol_ | lardman: Qstarz BT-Q818X is really amazing cheap GPS, but if you want to go next level, expect to pay 500-1000$ | 01:36 |
| lardman | yes I've seen some reasonably cheap ones with 5Hz now, all good :) | 01:37 |
| aol_ | lardman: I got the whole range on my test devices :) | 01:37 |
| aol_ | lardman: this one I mentioned is around £60... it has the MTK-II chipset | 01:37 |
| aol_ | normally they are the older MTK chipset which is not as good | 01:37 |
| lardman | what do you do? | 01:38 |
| aol_ | lardman: www.racechrono.com | 01:38 |
| lardman | ah, now I see the link :) | 01:39 |
| aol_ | lardman: also http://www.racechrono.com/tracks/?lang=en | 01:39 |
| lardman | Some decent >1Hz GPS stuff would have been good for my work, instead had to work from wheel speed encoders, etc | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ,ad | 01:40 |
| lardman | nice | 01:40 |
| aol_ | lardman: what kind of work do you do ? | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman; | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | ,a | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | argh | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: I plan on something silly. | 01:40 |
| lardman | now I do non-destructive testing using thermography; then I did some driveability work | 01:40 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: what's that? | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=516-1843-ND - to measure road speed. | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: optical mouse chip | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | IR LED, small lens. | 01:41 |
| lardman | how do those work, image correlation? | 01:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | sort-of, yes. | 01:42 |
| Guest26813 | someone know how i can install plugins for ettercap | 01:42 |
| Guest26813 | To enable plugins: libltdl (part of libtool) | 01:42 |
| aol_ | lardman: alright ... I do mobile software for living, but I'm enthusiastic about motorsport, motorbikes and racing cars so that's why I do this software, to combine two different passions of mine :D | 01:42 |
| Guest26813 | but how i can download | 01:42 |
| Guest26813 | or where i can find it | 01:43 |
| SpeedEvil | there is a few hundred to a few thousand fps camera in there. and a little DSP | 01:43 |
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| lardman | SpeedEvil: fast enough to work on a road? | 01:44 |
| lardman | aol_: cool :) | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: easily - the road at 1m vs the mousepad at 2mm | 01:45 |
| aol_ | what are you planning, openstreetview rig? | 01:46 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: ah yes, need to sort out the lens system of course | 01:46 |
| lardman | and illumination? | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: 1W or so of IR LED | 01:47 |
| lardman | you can get nice 16W arrays now | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - I know - it's not needed | 01:49 |
| lardman | what's the res of the camera? | 01:49 |
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| lardman | anyway sounds like an interesting project, I look forward to hearing how you get on | 01:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | lardman: 16*16 I think | 01:54 |
| lardman | will that give you sufficient res when looking at 1m square? | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. It's similar to paper | 01:55 |
| Guest26813 | anyone knows ettercap for maemo | 01:55 |
| Guest26813 | diablo | 01:55 |
| lardman | SpeedEvil: cool | 01:56 |
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| lardman | night all | 02:12 |
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| Federico2 | hi there | 02:51 |
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| johnx | allo | 02:58 |
| Federico2 | any idea on the expected cost of the maemo? | 02:58 |
| javispedro | lol, running sdl fullscreen under xephyr/fremantle_x86 is very funny. parts of it are color-swapped, other parts are blur, and those randomly move around the screen. also, every few seconds it flashes black. | 02:59 |
| johnx | 500 euros | 02:59 |
| johnx | also, just so you know: Maemo is the OS and the device is the N900 | 02:59 |
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| * lcuk waves @ johnx | 02:59 | |
| johnx | mornin lcuk | 02:59 |
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| lcuk | hey there | 03:00 |
| lcuk | how goes it | 03:00 |
| johnx | it goes | 03:00 |
| lcuk | goooood | 03:00 |
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| johnx | just got back from buying car parts. got some maintenance to do laterish | 03:00 |
| lcuk | ive been busy hacking :) | 03:01 |
| johnx | fun stuff :) | 03:01 |
| johnx | got a more generic rendering backend? | 03:01 |
| Federico2 | thanks johnx | 03:02 |
| MaceN8x0 | have to love the battery life on the n810 | 03:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 03:03 |
| johnx | yeah, it's good stuff | 03:03 |
| johnx | just bought a new battery for my n800 and did a clean flash | 03:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | been going for about 6 hrs so far | 03:03 |
| MaceN8x0 | and still have 3/4 | 03:03 |
| johnx | goes fast after that though | 03:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | yeah | 03:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | but still ;) | 03:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | 6 hrs makes me happy enough | 03:04 |
| johnx | yeah | 03:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | i just decided to stick with maemo4 | 03:04 |
| johnx | between that and a phone with a good battery, I can be tethered on IM for a good chunk of the day away from power | 03:04 |
| MaceN8x0 | i just keep the phone hooked up to power and wifi tether | 03:05 |
| MaceN8x0 | which is amazing because im sure the wifi takes up more than bt would | 03:05 |
| MaceN8x0 | i cant wait til i get an n900 | 03:06 |
| johnx | especially ad-hoc wifi | 03:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | hope the battery is good | 03:06 |
| johnx | smaller battery in the n900 though. worries me a little | 03:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | my phone lasts like 1.5 hrs adhoc tethering | 03:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 03:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | damn g1 | 03:06 |
| MaceN8x0 | has shit for battery life | 03:06 |
| javispedro | fremantle sdk: "Uninstall conbox frees 858993459 kB of device memory" wtf?? | 03:06 |
| javispedro | *conboy. | 03:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 03:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | wow | 03:07 |
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| lcuk | johnx, ive got a more generic framework | 03:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | that is quite a bit :) | 03:07 |
| lcuk | more anonymous | 03:07 |
| javispedro | "Uninstalling Attitude frees -171986918 kB of device memory".... | 03:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | -? | 03:07 |
| MaceN8x0 | so it takes memory away? | 03:07 |
| javispedro | i think I'm hitting a h-a-m bug, but dunno, because it didn't happen with my package | 03:08 |
| johnx | maybe that's the correct behavior and your package has the bug? :) | 03:09 |
| javispedro | may be, trying to uninstall my package caused it to crash :S | 03:09 |
| javispedro | hum, but hildon-theme-alpha also shows a pretty sane "9.4MiB", so I don't think so. | 03:10 |
| johnx | or maybe those packages don't have the right thing listed in their "Size:" field and the app manager doesn't fall back to some other method of checking? | 03:11 |
| javispedro | Attitude: "Installed-Size: 132" | 03:11 |
| javispedro | that seems ok... | 03:11 |
| javispedro | a bit on the low size tho | 03:12 |
| javispedro | http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM.png | 03:13 |
| javispedro | with those kind of "applications" I think qgil was wrong telling us not to worry about available size, not even the 32 GiB will be enough ;) | 03:14 |
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| johnx | it's ok, just install attitude first to free up room | 03:14 |
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| javispedro | so this is what happens after an uncontrolled century of software bloat, 858 tibibyte note taking application. | 03:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: You know it's coming. | 03:17 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: And it'll probably be reality before you die. | 03:17 |
| * SpeedEvil notes his current laptop has a million times the RAM and storage of his first computer. (ZX81) | 03:18 | |
| javispedro | calling the zx81 a laptop is evil. | 03:18 |
| javispedro | the 16k expansion I have is bigger than a CRT monitor. | 03:18 |
| javispedro | around a 15'' one. | 03:18 |
| javispedro | oops, sorry, should learn to read ;) | 03:19 |
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| mavhc | and in another 20 years it'll be a million times bigger | 03:23 |
| johnx | though, I don't see code amounts jumping the same way they have | 03:24 |
| johnx | media content: yes, library dependencies: yes, but monolithic programs of huge size must be close to the maximum reasonable size they can get | 03:24 |
| mavhc | which means you'll have everything non-video ever created | 03:24 |
| AStorm | well | 03:25 |
| mavhc | and 24/7 recordings of your entire life, and anyone you know who's given you a copy | 03:25 |
| AStorm | about 3200xsomething is the resolution of human eye | 03:25 |
| johnx | mavhc, nah, cause cameras will keep adding megapixels, but for some reason everyone will still have 129kbs mp3s | 03:25 |
| AStorm | so if the screen is placed right... | 03:25 |
| mavhc | and in another 20 years you'll have the life video of everyone on the planet | 03:25 |
| AStorm | nope, mp4 is slowly phasing it out | 03:25 |
| AStorm | unfortunately, not Vorbis :( | 03:25 |
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| mavhc | and about 50 years after that the zx81 OS will become public domain | 03:26 |
| johnx | but audio bitrates are still impressively low | 03:26 |
| AStorm | maybe we'll finally have Flac-supporting devices | 03:26 |
| mavhc | does maemo play flac? | 03:26 |
| AStorm | sure | 03:26 |
| mavhc | so there's no problem | 03:27 |
| AStorm | mplayer does and there's a gstreamer plugin too | 03:27 |
| AStorm | not sure if it uses any DSP code | 03:27 |
| mavhc | when mp3 was invented it was rare to find people who could tell that a 128kbit mp3 was compressed | 03:27 |
| AStorm | wrong | 03:27 |
| AStorm | in the tests, 128kbit mp3s got a 4 | 03:28 |
| AStorm | out of 5, on average | 03:28 |
| mavhc | tests of who? | 03:28 |
| AStorm | of FhG | 03:28 |
| mavhc | of random members of the public, or audio guys? | 03:29 |
| AStorm | note, this didn't apply to pure ISO encoders, which were broken | 03:29 |
| AStorm | a representative sample of general public | 03:29 |
| mavhc | anyway, the point is over time we've learned to hear the differences | 03:30 |
| AStorm | actually, we just got a bunch of bad codecs | 03:30 |
| AStorm | that is, ISO-based code | 03:30 |
| AStorm | try LAME@128kbps for a fairly good representation | 03:30 |
| AStorm | lowpassed, but ok | 03:30 |
| AStorm | of course, Vorbis and AAC are better | 03:32 |
| AStorm | but the difference is most noticeable at about 64 kbps, that is very low bitrates | 03:33 |
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| soap | how old are you? | 03:41 |
| AStorm | now 20-something | 03:41 |
| soap | male? | 03:41 |
| AStorm | and I did have fun testing and tuning LAME | 03:41 |
| AStorm | yup | 03:41 |
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| soap | So LAME's lowpass is a problem for you? | 03:42 |
| AStorm | no, it's not problematic, just audible | 03:42 |
| AStorm | it sounds more like FM radio | 03:43 |
| soap | you can hear musical content above 16k? | 03:43 |
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| soap | impressive for a 20 something male. | 03:43 |
| angasule | I can hear music content above 30k | 03:43 |
| AStorm | yes, last tested up to 19,5k | 03:43 |
| AStorm | angasule, yeah sure, are you a dog or a cat? | 03:43 |
| angasule | I am superman | 03:43 |
| AStorm | maybe a bat? | 03:43 |
| AStorm | ;P | 03:43 |
| angasule | AStorm: I'm an elephant. | 03:43 |
| angasule | a green elephant. | 03:43 |
| javispedro | last time I tried one of those tests I did not hear anything at all ;P | 03:43 |
| soap | You're in a slim percentile if you can hear 19.5k, much less in music. | 03:43 |
| AStorm | javispedro, well | 03:43 |
| AStorm | soap, yes, but 16k is easy for most people | 03:44 |
| soap | no it isn't. | 03:44 |
| AStorm | e.g. 16k lowpass vs 18k lowpass | 03:44 |
| AStorm | just a tiny bit of careful listening | 03:44 |
| soap | not for > 80% of the population, not for > 95% of the >20 population | 03:44 |
| AStorm | it's audible on percussion | 03:44 |
| angasule | hmm | 03:44 |
| angasule | can I test it on a website or something? | 03:44 |
| AStorm | and sometimes distorted guitars | 03:44 |
| angasule | I've lost a lot of hearing, lately :( | 03:45 |
| soap | angasule, yea you can - so long as you are sure your audio card doesn't resample. | 03:45 |
| AStorm | angasule, yes, I think ff123.net might have some useful samples | 03:45 |
| angasule | it used to be that riding the subway was painful, but no longer | 03:45 |
| AStorm | it may resample, but has to do it well | 03:45 |
| soap | many people, angasule, convince themselves they can hear much higher frequencies than they really can as a result of aliasing. | 03:45 |
| AStorm | yeah | 03:45 |
| angasule | soap: I have sensitive hearing, but not in the frequency meaning, I can just hear very very low volume sounds | 03:46 |
| AStorm | low ATH then | 03:46 |
| AStorm | mine is about average | 03:46 |
| angasule | like hunters hiding in the bush, the smartypants won't get me! | 03:46 |
| soap | that's good. One tends to lose the two together - but that's good nonetheless. | 03:46 |
| AStorm | and I've a difference in left vs right ear, heh | 03:46 |
| AStorm | (in low frequencies) | 03:46 |
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| javispedro | when using the sweep.zip file here, http://ff123.net/sweep.html, I can hear for the whole 6 seconds, which means something is amiss in my audio setup :P | 03:49 |
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| angasule | I should probably disable pulseaudio | 03:50 |
| javispedro | i'm outputting directly to the creative p16v | 03:50 |
| angasule | I bet that PoS intereferes, but I haven't been able to configure my computer lately | 03:50 |
| angasule | I used to play games with the speakers off, I didn't need the extra amplification of powering them on | 03:51 |
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| AStorm | nah, pulse has fine resamplers | 03:54 |
| AStorm | but make sure to set the output frequency correctly (usually 48000 Hz) | 03:54 |
| angasule | I'll do it tomorrow | 03:55 |
| angasule | or maybe the day after, so I can do it in the bedroom | 03:55 |
| angasule | I have a very noisy fridge in the next room which is annoying :) | 03:55 |
| angasule | I didn't program anything at all today, I'm a bad boy heh | 03:56 |
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| MaceN8x0 | wow | 04:08 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i guess it does go fast afterwards | 04:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | can i get an extended batt for an n810? | 04:09 |
| javispedro | you think the battery level in n810 plummets, wait to see n900's one :P | 04:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | you would think they would make batteries longer | 04:09 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 04:10 |
| javispedro | 3 bars = 3 hours according to maemo.nokia.com screenshots :P | 04:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | n810 lasts a fair amount of time tho | 04:10 |
| AStorm | yeah, up to 9h here | 04:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | too bad i have a g1 | 04:10 |
| AStorm | (playing music) | 04:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | i have to adhoc tether | 04:10 |
| AStorm | ouch | 04:10 |
| MaceN8x0 | bt support in android totally sucks | 04:11 |
| AStorm | now, tethered it lasts about 7h | 04:11 |
| AStorm | 5 to 7h depending on usage | 04:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | android altogether sucks compared to maemo4 | 04:11 |
| AStorm | my cell phone lasts less if used heavily for gprs | 04:11 |
| MaceN8x0 | it was cool at first, but once into it... it sucks | 04:11 |
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| MaceN8x0 | damn i really want my touchbook | 04:15 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i thought it was odd that they were promoting the fact it comes with firefox AND fennec | 04:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | i hope the bookmarks are shared | 04:16 |
| MaceN8x0 | i suppose fennec is better for it in tablet mode | 04:16 |
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| AStorm | is fennec still extreme excercise in patience? | 04:18 |
| AStorm | (as in, slower than a snail) | 04:18 |
| zerojayPC | On the N810 or? | 04:19 |
| AStorm | everywhere | 04:19 |
| GAN8001 | New release should be coming soonish | 04:20 |
| GAN8001 | Last beta release was better but not great on my N800. | 04:20 |
| MaceN8x0 | it totally sucked when i tried it | 04:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | but touchbook is a bit faster than an n810 | 04:22 |
| MaceN8x0 | and has a bit more ram | 04:22 |
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| MaceN8x0 | i think it is amazing that arm arch based things work so well wirh such limited ram | 04:23 |
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| zerojayPC | ARM's pretty damn good. | 04:24 |
| zerojayPC | Just too bad so many ARM machines out there use Java. ;) | 04:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | i guess they hold back on ram for power saving? | 04:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | Nxxx doesnt | 04:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | nor does a touchbook | 04:25 |
| MaceN8x0 | ;) | 04:25 |
| zerojayPC | I'm talking about all the other cell phones out there. | 04:25 |
| zerojayPC | And Java's terrible for it. | 04:26 |
| MaceN8x0 | oh, yeah | 04:26 |
| MaceN8x0 | like shitdroid | 04:26 |
| MaceN8x0 | what a let down android has been | 04:26 |
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| zelrikriando | hello | 04:26 |
| zerojayPC | I understand the idea was that you could have one app that just ran on all phones... but working in the game industry... it REALLY didn't work out that way. | 04:26 |
| zerojayPC | Different phones had different or faulty JVMs. | 04:26 |
| zerojayPC | Some had VERY strange bugs. | 04:26 |
| javispedro | all that usage of java is because I guess nobody expected ARM would continue leading for long | 04:27 |
| zerojayPC | So we had to make individual builds anyway. | 04:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | zerojayPC, java itself was supposed to be the bridge | 04:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | where everything ran everywhere | 04:27 |
| zerojayPC | Into madness! | 04:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahaha | 04:27 |
| zerojayPC | Yes, I know. | 04:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | yeah, seems that way | 04:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | it didnt work | 04:27 |
| MaceN8x0 | although | 04:27 |
| zerojayPC | And it just didn't work that way. I know... I spent years doing nothing but porting our apps to different phones with all sorts of results. | 04:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | js seems to work well | 04:28 |
| javispedro | this is going to be a problem with qt too | 04:28 |
| zerojayPC | that's fine. | 04:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | hahahaha | 04:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | that sucks | 04:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | porting in the universal jre? | 04:28 |
| zerojayPC | QT's not pretending that the same app will run unchanged on all. | 04:28 |
| zelrikriando | the n900 looks impressive | 04:28 |
| javispedro | it's not? | 04:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | :) | 04:28 |
| zerojayPC | No, it's not. | 04:28 |
| MaceN8x0 | sure does | 04:29 |
| javispedro | :) | 04:29 |
| zelrikriando | too bad I bought an android device | 04:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | and it is an actual phone | 04:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | zelrikriando, me too | 04:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | but ive had my g1 for a while | 04:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | i can change | 04:29 |
| zerojayPC | Not the way Java was anyway. | 04:29 |
| zelrikriando | is there some kind of market on the n900? | 04:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | and find someone with tmob | 04:29 |
| zerojayPC | market meaning...? | 04:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | n900 works with tmob | 04:29 |
| zelrikriando | app market | 04:29 |
| zerojayPC | App store? | 04:29 |
| MaceN8x0 | at least it is supposed to | 04:29 |
| zelrikriando | yeah | 04:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | omg | 04:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | i hope not | 04:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | haha | 04:30 |
| zelrikriando | why not lol | 04:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | android market is shitty | 04:30 |
| zerojayPC | No... there will be Maemo Select which will be a selection of the best apps available, and there's the Extras repo that will have most of the good apps in it. | 04:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | if i saw that on a nokia phone | 04:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | i would be sad | 04:30 |
| zerojayPC | The Apple app store is a complete fucking disaster. | 04:30 |
| zelrikriando | lol | 04:30 |
| MaceN8x0 | zelrikriando, ever use quickoffice? | 04:30 |
| zelrikriando | but but... I use all those apps | 04:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | on a nokia in symbian? | 04:31 |
| zelrikriando | :D | 04:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | it is awesome | 04:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | and on shitdroid | 04:31 |
| zelrikriando | I never had a nokia | 04:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | it was view only for $20 | 04:31 |
| zerojayPC | lol | 04:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | what bullshit | 04:31 |
| zelrikriando | I dont have access to paid for apps | 04:31 |
| zelrikriando | lol | 04:31 |
| MaceN8x0 | good | 04:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | they all suck anyways | 04:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | anything anybody really uses is free | 04:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | like connectbot | 04:32 |
| zelrikriando | I just use stuff like shopsavvy | 04:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | and, ... uhm.... | 04:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | thats it haha | 04:32 |
| zelrikriando | lol | 04:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | steel is a nice browser | 04:32 |
| zelrikriando | I dont have connect bot | 04:32 |
| zelrikriando | I like steel | 04:32 |
| MaceN8x0 | for a phone | 04:32 |
| zerojayPC | I came close to buying the HTC Magic a few weeks ago. | 04:33 |
| zerojayPC | But had a feeling something was going to be announced soon. | 04:33 |
| MaceN8x0 | connectbot is for ssh | 04:33 |
| zerojayPC | Glad I waited. | 04:33 |
| zelrikriando | zerojayPC: I went further that you and bought one | 04:33 |
| * javispedro sends 6x9 MiB packages to the autobuilder :P | 04:33 | |
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| zelrikriando | MaceN8x0: I can see some use but I dont use it now | 04:33 |
| MaceN8x0 | zerojayPC, i heard magic totally sucks | 04:33 |
| MaceN8x0 | all types of problems | 04:33 |
| zerojayPC | I don't really know firsthand. Didn't hear much. | 04:34 |
| javispedro | well, gnite all | 04:34 |
| MaceN8x0 | mostly due to lack of kernel src? | 04:34 |
| zelrikriando | I dont have any problem | 04:34 |
| zerojayPC | I guess the lure of open source and Google stuff interested me. | 04:34 |
| zelrikriando | I am running on a custom rom though | 04:34 |
| zelrikriando | and I dont have the crapy US version | 04:34 |
| MaceN8x0 | zelrikriando, do you tether? | 04:34 |
| zelrikriando | I do | 04:34 |
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| zelrikriando | Well | 04:34 |
| zelrikriando | I can | 04:34 |
| MaceN8x0 | people in canada usin rogers... | 04:34 |
| MaceN8x0 | had all types of problems | 04:35 |
| MaceN8x0 | ive been using stock jf roms | 04:35 |
| MaceN8x0 | i will try a hero rom soon | 04:35 |
| MaceN8x0 | anyways. i have to go ;) | 04:35 |
| zelrikriando | I am on rogers | 04:35 |
| zelrikriando | what problems ? | 04:35 |
| MaceN8x0 | take care all | 04:35 |
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| zelrikriando | damn | 04:36 |
| zelrikriando | now I am worried | 04:36 |
| zelrikriando | I didnt know about maemo until I saw the n900 ad on youtube | 04:40 |
| zelrikriando | :p | 04:40 |
| zelrikriando | like today | 04:40 |
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| GAN8001 | Woo, AGP card slot is fried. | 04:57 |
| GAN8001 | That's a $1000 part. | 04:57 |
| GAN8001 | Plus the rusty case is about another $500 Apple will have to put in to repair. | 04:58 |
| GAN8001 | Mac Pro here I come. | 04:58 |
| ShadowJK | is this warranty repair or are they expecting you to pay | 04:58 |
| GAN8001 | It leaked. | 04:58 |
| GAN8001 | So this is a warranty exception | 04:58 |
| GAN8001 | They "repaired" the leak a couple of months ago | 04:58 |
| GAN8001 | but it's failed again. | 04:58 |
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| loufoque | is there a place where I can get more information about the N900 than the maemo website? | 05:19 |
| zelrikriando | loufoque: did you try google? | 05:20 |
| zerojay | It's not released yet, so not really. | 05:23 |
| zelrikriando | there are vids on youtube | 05:23 |
| zelrikriando | but it might come from the website | 05:23 |
| zelrikriando | :D | 05:23 |
| zerojay | What info are you looking for? | 05:24 |
| GAN8001 | loufoque, feel free to ask. | 05:27 |
| GAN8001 | Between the group of us here we pretty much know everything there is to know that's not covered under NDA. | 05:27 |
| GAN8001 | Of course, no Genius reservations available. | 05:27 |
| loufoque | I wonder how the phone features will interact with maemo and SIP | 05:28 |
| GAN8001 | loufoque, Eldar's screenshots show a choser for picking between SIP and cellular. | 05:28 |
| GAN8001 | I'm pretty sure they'll use the same interface. | 05:29 |
| GAN8001 | Anyway, it definitely supports SIP audio just fine. | 05:29 |
| GAN8001 | (Better than Diablo, even) | 05:29 |
| loufoque | so it can't automatically use the best network according to what is available and the type of number? | 05:31 |
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| loufoque | I mean, no transparent use of cellular or VoIP is planned? | 05:31 |
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| zerojay | I like that leap in logic. | 05:41 |
| GAN8001 | lol | 05:44 |
| GAN8001 | I'm sure somebody could implement that. | 05:44 |
| * GAN8001 mutters more obscene things about Apple. | 05:45 | |
| GAN8001 | I can't believe how far downhill their warranty service has declined since they started selling the iPod. | 05:45 |
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| qpoi | Where can I download the Maemo OS straight up? | 05:47 |
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| GAN8001 | qpoi, do you own a device? | 05:49 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, certain parts of the OS are only licensed to device owners | 05:50 |
| GAN8001 | and, thus, cannot be downloaded by just anybody. | 05:50 |
| qpoi | GAN8001: I'd settle for just the GPL bit | 05:50 |
| GAN8001 | This should cover you: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ | 05:50 |
| zerojay | Not trying to preview Maemo 5, i hope. | 05:51 |
| GAN8001 | Perhaps also: http://repository.maemo.org/ | 05:51 |
| * GAN8001 really loves his plain-text web pages. | 05:51 | |
| qpoi | More or less I'm interested in previewing whatever the closest is that I can to what the N900 will have. | 05:51 |
| zerojay | Yeah, youtube then. | 05:52 |
| qpoi | I have an iPhone 3GS, and I'd possibly be willing to be a turncoat on my contract in order to get a phone with raw enough linux | 05:52 |
| qpoi | Not so much interested in the UI--which is what I suspect YouTube will have | 05:52 |
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| ShadowJK | on s60 you can make sip default call type, and after keying in a number you can also chose whether to make cell, video or sip call | 05:52 |
| ShadowJK | I imagine it wont be too different in maemo5 | 05:53 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, YouTube and the Maemo 5 SDK. | 05:53 |
| zerojay | I'm sure it'll be there too. | 05:53 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, but the SDK is a testing environment, not an emulation environment. | 05:53 |
| zerojay | All the fancy ui stuff doesn't exist in it. | 05:53 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, the platform is basically a mobile-modified Debian with the GNOME Mobile stack. | 05:54 |
| qpoi | GAN8001: is the backend capable of running ARM Debian as described in wikipedia? | 05:54 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, you should be able to run anything you want. Only issue is going to be the cellular stack. | 05:54 |
| GAN8001 | Which we don't have enough details on to be sure of yet. | 05:54 |
| GAN8001 | May be worth browsing the SDK packages here: http://repository.maemo.org/unstable/fremantle/ | 05:55 |
| qpoi | what's the most likely outcomes on the celluar stack? | 05:55 |
| qpoi | likeliness of all linux applications having access to the internet, for example | 05:55 |
| zerojay | 100% | 05:56 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, not enough details, Nokia is doing the whole oFono thing which will be very open, but it wont be ready for Maemo 5. | 05:56 |
| GAN8001 | So they've got their own system in place for now. | 05:56 |
| zerojay | All linux apps should be able to access the net just fine. | 05:56 |
| GAN8001 | Which I suspect should be easy enough to get running on something else, but couldn't say without more details. | 05:56 |
| GAN8001 | Yeah, net access should be no trouble at all. | 05:56 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, at its core it's regular old Debian. | 05:57 |
| GAN8001 | Not a castrated Linux like Android. | 05:57 |
| qpoi | exactly what has my interest up | 05:57 |
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| qpoi | Android got my hopes up for nothing | 05:57 |
| GAN8001 | The userspace stuff is mostly the same as what's on the desktop. | 05:57 |
| zerojayPC | Compile it and it should run just fine. :) | 05:57 |
| GAN8001 | Unlike Android and WebOS which are mostly just a kernel with non-compatible userspace stuff designed to lock you into their platform. | 05:58 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, this is the real deal. | 05:58 |
| GAN8001 | Honestly. | 05:58 |
| zerojayPC | Maemo always has been open to letting the user do what they want. This is Linux as you want it. | 05:58 |
| qpoi | Maemo needs to get some people out there handling PR if that's truly the case | 05:58 |
| qpoi | because I had almost lost interest in it based on some comments I had seen on blogs/etc | 05:59 |
| zerojayPC | X-Term comes preinstalled even, I think. | 05:59 |
| zerojayPC | Which comments? | 05:59 |
| qpoi | couldn't cite it off hand, it's been a couple weeks now | 05:59 |
| zerojayPC | I wouldn't go by what some random phone blogs say. So many of them get the details all wrong. | 05:59 |
| qpoi | but it was readily apparent on a relevant front page google search | 05:59 |
| zerojayPC | As we all know. :) | 05:59 |
| qpoi | yeah, but it's a serious PR problem at a bare minimum -- because not everyone knows to look beyond something like that | 06:00 |
| zerojayPC | I don't know what PR problem you're talking about. I haven't heard anyone saying that the N900 wasn't full open linux so...? | 06:00 |
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| zerojayPC | If anything, it's a major part of the PR already. | 06:01 |
| ShadowJK | Haven't Nokia employees said something like "the best part about Maemo is that you can get rid of it"? :P | 06:01 |
| zerojayPC | Haha. | 06:01 |
| zerojayPC | No, not quite the quote. | 06:01 |
| ShadowJK | aw | 06:02 |
| zerojayPC | qpoi: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ - this may help you understand what's going on here. | 06:02 |
| zerojayPC | ShadowJK: They didn't say it was the best part. But they did say you could get rid of it if you wanted to. | 06:02 |
| GAN8001 | http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ | 06:02 |
| GAN8001 | Oh, bitch. | 06:02 |
| * zerojayPC muhahahaha | 06:02 | |
| qpoi | will GTK also be a future possibility in maemo 5? | 06:03 |
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| GAN8001 | qpoi, it should get better once the real announcement is out. | 06:03 |
| zerojayPC | GTK *IS* Maemo 5. | 06:03 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, with Harmattan it will be community supported. | 06:03 |
| GAN8001 | Which means we decide how well supported we want it to be. Much like Python and Qt now. | 06:03 |
| GAN8001 | Fremantle is still GTK. | 06:03 |
| GAN8001 | Hildon is just a mobile-oriented GTK extension. | 06:04 |
| ShadowJK | "If freedom is your concern then you don’t need to “unlock” or “jailbreak” Maemo 5. From installing an application to getting root access, it’s you who decide. We trust you, and at the end it’s your device." :) | 06:04 |
| zerojayPC | Porting GTK apps to Maemo is pretty simple for the most part. | 06:04 |
| qpoi | what exactly does porting it entail? | 06:05 |
| zerojayPC | Are you a programmer? | 06:05 |
| qpoi | i can read and modify code, but not compose it fluently | 06:05 |
| zerojayPC | Or someone planning on doing porting work? | 06:05 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, you should be fine, then. | 06:05 |
| GAN8001 | Actually, you can mostly just compile things straight. | 06:05 |
| GAN8001 | Problem is, they wont be optimized for mobile usage. | 06:06 |
| GAN8001 | You'll need to poke at window behaviors, move menus around and prod toolbars. | 06:06 |
| zerojayPC | Small checkboxes and buttons... | 06:06 |
| GAN8001 | Ah, found it. | 06:07 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node13.html | 06:07 |
| zerojayPC | That where they show how to port that podcast client? | 06:08 |
| zerojayPC | Close enough. | 06:08 |
| zerojayPC | Typical end users won't need to bother with porting stuff, obviously. | 06:08 |
| GAN8001 | More and more FPSes are starting to ship with Invert Y disabled by default. :( | 06:09 |
| qpoi | does maemo keep a data connection alive at all times? | 06:11 |
| qpoi | or does it have a timeout | 06:12 |
| GAN8001 | Not sure yet, actually. | 06:12 |
| GAN8001 | It's designed to be always-on. | 06:12 |
| GAN8001 | But I'm not sure how the configuration is setup. | 06:12 |
| qpoi | what about on current gen devices? | 06:13 |
| GAN8001 | You can configure timeouts. | 06:13 |
| GAN8001 | It's WiFi/DUN and you can set it up for a variety of behaviors. | 06:13 |
| qpoi | i wonder if an apache server would be possible | 06:13 |
| qpoi | over VPN | 06:13 |
| GAN8001 | So I suspect they wont be regressing there. | 06:13 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, should be no problem. | 06:13 |
| qpoi | even over the cellular network? | 06:13 |
| GAN8001 | Probably depends on your provider. | 06:14 |
| qpoi | what about geolocation -- is maemo aware? | 06:15 |
| GAN8001 | A-GPS and cellular. | 06:15 |
| GAN8001 | Uses it for tagging photos, and Ovi Maps out of the box. | 06:16 |
| qpoi | very interesting | 06:16 |
| qpoi | seems like you could grep that data and call it from a php script | 06:16 |
| qpoi | run an apache server, and display your location on the web | 06:16 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, I would read through http://maemo.nokia.com/features/ | 06:16 |
| GAN8001 | Keeping in mind that marketing people are idiots. | 06:17 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, that'd be really easy | 06:17 |
| GAN8001 | although I would recommend running something lighter than Apache. | 06:17 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, I think there's a Telepathy plugin to feed that info to your friends list. | 06:19 |
| GAN8001 | Then you can show a moving map with everybody's location pinpointed. | 06:19 |
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| qpoi | pretty exciting | 06:19 |
| qpoi | just can't wait for it to come true | 06:19 |
| qpoi | fully functional linux on a phone, that is | 06:20 |
| GAN8001 | Well and truly. | 06:20 |
| GAN8001 | Exciting times ahead. | 06:20 |
| GAN8001 | I just have my fingers crossed for AT&T 3G support in the NAM version. | 06:20 |
| qpoi | is there any specified date on when we will know that information? | 06:21 |
| GAN8001 | qpoi, Nokia World | 06:22 |
| GAN8001 | September 2-3 | 06:22 |
| esaym153 | c | 06:25 |
| qpoi | interesting thought..VLC | 06:25 |
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| qpoi | i wonder if VLC will be able to hook the input device | 06:25 |
| qpoi | and stream video | 06:25 |
| qpoi | that would likely require v4l support i assume -- any idea if audio/video are based on the closed or open source half of the phone? | 06:28 |
| qpoi | or of maemo, rather | 06:28 |
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| GAN8001 | Should be v4l2. | 06:31 |
| GAN8001 | Is in Diablo, anyway. | 06:31 |
| GAN8001 | So, yeah, video streaming should work fine. | 06:31 |
| GAN8001 | GStreamer or somesuch. | 06:31 |
| qpoi | interesting | 06:31 |
| qpoi | what about the audio? same deal? | 06:37 |
| qpoi | could record phone calls... | 06:37 |
| GAN8001 | I'd assume so, | 06:37 |
| zerojayPC | hhope not | 06:37 |
| GAN8001 | But realize that it may not be illegal to do so in your state or municipality. | 06:37 |
| qpoi | how come, zerojay? | 06:38 |
| qpoi | fortunately it's legal in my locale | 06:38 |
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| Firebird | GAN8001, is the hpm git version supposed to be utterly broken? | 06:50 |
| GAN8001 | hpm? | 06:50 |
| Firebird | package manager | 06:50 |
| GAN8001 | Oh, h-a-m? | 06:50 |
| GAN8001 | Not as far as I know. | 06:50 |
| GAN8001 | Might poke qwerty12_N810 about it tomorrow, though. | 06:50 |
| Firebird | can't add any repos and it won't read any existing ones | 06:50 |
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| Firebird | the icons also have the neat image missing icon | 06:51 |
| Firebird | *image | 06:51 |
| GAN8001 | Refresh the icon cache? | 06:52 |
| Firebird | eh, it may just be missing/pointing to nothing | 06:53 |
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| * GAN8001 will never understand some people's need to have Bible readers on every mobile device they own. | 07:07 | |
| zerojayPC | qpoi: Just because something is legal doesn't mean it should be done. | 07:08 |
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| zerojayPC | qpoi: Recording a phone call with someone without their permission or knowledge is pretty scumbagish in my opinion. | 07:09 |
| zerojayPC | Just like going through my trash. | 07:09 |
| GAN8001 | What, I go through your trash all the time. | 07:10 |
| zerojayPC | The built-in media player uses gstreamer. VLC already has a port for current tablets, I believe... should work fine on N900. | 07:10 |
| zerojayPC | GAN8001: Damn Maemo council has its privilages. | 07:11 |
| * GAN8001 grits his teeth. | 07:11 | |
| GAN8001 | Maemo _Community_ Council. :P | 07:11 |
| zerojayPC | lol | 07:11 |
| zerojayPC | I got lazy typing. | 07:11 |
| zerojayPC | And yeah, don't understand the bible reader shit either. | 07:12 |
| zerojayPC | Especially since most don't follow half of what the thing says anyways. | 07:13 |
| GAN8001 | To Each His Own I guess. | 07:13 |
| GAN8001 | Strange all the same, though. | 07:13 |
| zerojayPC | I would think a comic book reader would work just as well. | 07:14 |
| GAN8001 | You're a bad man, zerojayPC. :D | 07:15 |
| GAN8001 | A nice comic reader would be nice. | 07:16 |
| zerojayPC | Hell, it's all fiction, so what does it matter? lol | 07:16 |
| qpoi | zerojayPC: not if they're recording you back | 07:17 |
| GAN8001 | Somebody needs to put together a slick comic reader for Fremantle. | 07:17 |
| GAN8001 | That'll draw people in. | 07:17 |
| qpoi | zerojayPC: conversations with companies that play dirty is mostly what i have in mind when i talk recording calls | 07:17 |
| qpoi | zerojayPC: more or less leveling the playing field | 07:18 |
| zerojayPC | So... why not... you know, stop doing business with them? | 07:18 |
| qpoi | zerojayPC: not always possible | 07:18 |
| zerojayPC | I know that if I found out someone was recording my calls with them, it would be the last call they'd ever get from me. | 07:18 |
| qpoi | nearly all of corporate America records telephone calls | 07:19 |
| GAN8001 | Yeah, hard to avoid with customer service. ;) | 07:19 |
| zerojayPC | They tell you the call is being recorded. That's fine. | 07:19 |
| zerojayPC | GAN8001: http://comix.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html - hmm.. could be interesting for applying a Fremantle UX. | 07:21 |
| GAN8001 | zerojayPC, yeah, there's a MyPaint-style port for Diablo | 07:22 |
| GAN8001 | But a real UI overhaul would kick ass. | 07:22 |
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| qpoi | zerojayPC: yeah, they tell you the call is being recorded -- so that means the employee already acknowledges that they're being recorded | 07:41 |
| qpoi | zerojayPC: so if you record them in addition to their recording, it only means that you can defend yourself the same way that they intend to | 07:41 |
| qpoi | zerojayPC: i've had so many people lie to me that i have had no option but to record a few people over the years | 07:42 |
| kirma | bible reader and fox news viewer, because anything more general-purpose would be communism | 07:45 |
| kirma | ;) | 07:45 |
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| Luke-Jr | qpoi: meh, you don't even need to tell them in most states | 07:50 |
| qpoi | GAN8001: still around? | 07:55 |
| qpoi | had another idea while i was away -- how feasible does running truecrypt sound? | 07:55 |
| qpoi | does maemo use EXT/3? | 08:00 |
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| tank-man | you can use ext2 or ext3 | 08:02 |
| tank-man | or jjfs (?) | 08:02 |
| qpoi | ext2 is default? | 08:02 |
| tank-man | no | 08:02 |
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| GAN800 | qpoi, UBIFS, ext3, FAT32 and swap are default. | 08:07 |
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| GAN800 | UBIFS for the PoP NAND (256MB I believe), FAT32 for USB storage, ext3 for /home and 768MB of swap on the 32GB eMMC. | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | thank god for wifi at polish border motels | 08:09 |
| GAN800 | tank-man, JFFS2 is deprecated in favor of UBIFS for Fremantle. | 08:09 |
| GAN800 | Hi, Stskeeps. | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 08:10 |
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| jiiv | morning. | 08:17 |
| jiiv | stskeeps: finally getting around to trying mer, installing now. | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | have fun | 08:25 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 08:25 |
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| pupnik_ | so, i got a new pc yesterday | 09:48 |
| pupnik_ | booted up sidux (linux) from CD. gave my username, password and the partition i wanted. install took 1 minute and 32 seconds | 09:48 |
| pupnik_ | tried installing windows XP... | 09:48 |
| pupnik_ | 4 hours and 40 reboots later, still no windows | 09:48 |
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| BluesLee | pupnik_: where is the problem, who needs windows? | 09:59 |
| BluesLee | pupnik_: just a joke | 10:00 |
| pupnik_ | i understand | 10:00 |
| BluesLee | pupnik_: in general it should work, i dont know how sidux handles the partitions | 10:01 |
| pupnik_ | it's interesting to see performance on a variety of games | 10:01 |
| pupnik_ | but XP is a POS from a POS company | 10:01 |
| pupnik_ | glad i don't need to use it for work | 10:02 |
| BluesLee | pupnik_: than you are fine | 10:02 |
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| thadeusb | Do you have to have a debian system to develope on maemo or is there a way to install on non-debian systems, such as archlinux? | 10:05 |
| konttori | nice. python edje demos are in extras-devel | 10:09 |
| * konttori is waiting for canola 2 eagerly! | 10:09 | |
| konttori | thadeusb: you can develop on any system | 10:09 |
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| thadeusb | konttori: the examples all for setting up the environment seem to be all debian based and reliant on apt-get to install the packages. Is there a place I can download the source? | 10:11 |
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| * brbrbr greeting all | 10:15 | |
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| Aruz | hi all | 10:17 |
| Aruz | does maemo run python applications? | 10:17 |
| Aruz | n900 | 10:17 |
| Aruz | how can I get more info about pymaemo | 10:18 |
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| * brbrbr greeting all | 10:36 | |
| pupnik_ | can vmware run directx games fast? | 10:40 |
| pupnik_ | windows in native mode is not working | 10:40 |
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| slonopotamus | pupnik_, afaik, no | 10:46 |
| pupnik_ | k | 10:46 |
| pupnik_ | i installed sidux in 10 min | 10:46 |
| pupnik_ | winxp - all day, and still no work | 10:47 |
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| slonopotamus | ~curse autotools | 11:05 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, autotools ! | 11:05 |
| johnx | so what do you prefer instead of autotools? | 11:06 |
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| rkirti | autotools are a necessary evil | 11:09 |
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| * johnx sighs about the signal/noise ratio in t.m.o | 11:17 | |
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| thp | clear | 11:40 |
| thp | oops. sorry ;) | 11:40 |
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| rkirti | a little bit of fun : http://sudharsh.wordpress.com/2009/06/30/give-your-boss-the-illusion-of-managing-you-with-pidgin-and-dbus/ | 11:47 |
| konttori | pupnik_: afaik, it should run up to dx9 pretty fast | 11:48 |
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| * konttori starts working on dpkg / apt front-end (yeah, deb installation in appman has been removed due to popular demand in n900. grrr....) | 11:53 | |
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| johnx | might want to see if gdebi behaves acceptably before putting in too much effort | 11:54 |
| RST38h | heya johnx | 11:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: have your prayers to Sharp been answered? =) | 11:55 |
| johnx | that NetWalker is pretty damn cool looking | 11:55 |
| johnx | I thought it was atom at first | 11:55 |
| RST38h | ARM! | 11:55 |
| johnx | even the price point isn't bad | 11:55 |
| johnx | and 512MB of RAM! and a Cortex A8 @ 800MHz! wow! madness | 11:55 |
| RST38h | is it using iMX51? | 11:56 |
| johnx | yeah, that's an A8, isn't it? | 11:56 |
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| konttori | looks nice | 11:56 |
| konttori | otoh, would I have that rather than a 10" device... not sure | 11:57 |
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| konttori | also, I would have gone for a bigger screen. It has the space for it | 11:57 |
| konttori | Looks like it could easily have fitted 8" display | 11:57 |
| konttori | that would have been nice compromise imho | 11:57 |
| johnx | kinda | 11:57 |
| konttori | but it looks really quite nice | 11:57 |
| johnx | screen to the edge probably makes it more flimsy | 11:57 |
| RST38h | johnx: yes, 51 is a cortex chip | 11:57 |
| konttori | I want to see one live definitely | 11:57 |
| RST38h | They seem to have skipped over iMX41 though =) | 11:58 |
| konttori | I think screen to the edge demands a good rigid frame to surround the display | 11:58 |
| pillar | is there really no IDE available for coding and debugging Qt for Maemo that integrates with scratchbox? | 11:58 |
| johnx | I haven't seen any pocketable/baggable gadgets with a screen all the way to the edge in recent years | 11:58 |
| konttori | at least devs@nokia use the qt creator | 11:59 |
| RST38h | pillar: Specifically for Qt, none | 12:02 |
| RST38h | If you feel like waiting for your menus to open and cursor to move, there is Eclipse plugin | 12:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: no wonder, it makes 'em fragile. ThinkPads had screens almost-to-the-edge once, but these were really special edges | 12:03 |
| pillar | rst: ok, this one? https://edit.qt.troll.no/developer/eclipse-integration | 12:03 |
| RST38h | pillar: this one is not maemo specific | 12:04 |
| pillar | rst: oh there is a maemo specific one too? I was looking for something like that but didn't find. Have to take a better look then | 12:05 |
| RST38h | pillar: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/1204012983/ | 12:05 |
| RST38h | Also http://www.cs.tut.fi/~laika/ | 12:05 |
| RST38h | But again, it is all for Eclipse == useless | 12:05 |
| johnx | time to catch some sleep | 12:05 |
| johnx | 'night all | 12:05 |
| RST38h | g'night | 12:06 |
| RST38h | pillar: and http://maemogeek.blogspot.com/2008/02/eclipse-plugins-for-maemo-development.html | 12:06 |
| pillar | oh I didn't realize esbox included qt support | 12:07 |
| pillar | RST38h: I have used eclipse for java development before, so I don't mind the ide | 12:07 |
| RST38h | I do not think it does, but it may | 12:07 |
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| RST38h | Personally, I would suggest Geany (www.geany.org) - it is a much better IDE | 12:08 |
| lcukx41 | mornin \o | 12:09 |
| RST38h | heya lcuk | 12:09 |
| slonopotamus | lcukx41, hello, mister | 12:09 |
| pillar | RST38h does it have better maemo qt support then? | 12:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hullo, lcukx41 | 12:10 |
| lcukx41 | geany is good | 12:10 |
| lcukx41 | and simple afaik :) | 12:10 |
| lcukx41 | pillar, why dont you use the qt ide that goes with qt itself? | 12:11 |
| pillar | lcukx41: you men qt creator? | 12:11 |
| lcukx41 | i mean whatever whizzbang ide it uses lol | 12:11 |
| RST38h | pillar: no, but it is simpler, lighter, and works | 12:11 |
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| RST38h | Also you may want to try Anjuta (Maemo plugin included): http://anjuta-maemo.garage.maemo.org/ | 12:12 |
| RST38h | heya wazd | 12:12 |
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| lcukx41 | i use komodo edit on windows for all my hacking :$ | 12:13 |
| lcukx41 | my laptop is not my own | 12:13 |
| lcukx41 | even my bookmarks are gone | 12:13 |
| * lcukx41 cant remember the url for /. | 12:13 | |
| RST38h | get your wife another laptop =) | 12:14 |
| lcukx41 | :D | 12:14 |
| pillar | it's not so much of what ide is the best that I am looking for, it's whichever would I be able to get it working so I can debug maemo qt apps with scratchbox | 12:14 |
| lcukx41 | i dont use it normally from the ui | 12:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | konttori: hei | 12:17 |
| timeless_mbp | how do i mark on posti.fi snail mail that the addressee doesn't live here? | 12:17 |
| lcukx41 | http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/08/30/0823206/Nokia-Makes-LGPL-Version-of-PyQt?art_pos=1 | 12:17 |
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| yves_ | Hi, I was wondering whether it is possible to run maemo on an ordinary laptop? | 12:18 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd probably choose to run Mer | 12:19 |
| timeless_mbp | which is basically Maemo but with more awareness that other hardware exists | 12:19 |
| yves_ | ah, super, thx | 12:20 |
| yves_ | I suppose it'll have development support | 12:20 |
| yves_ | found it online, will give this a go | 12:21 |
| timeless_mbp | lcukx41: yeah yeah | 12:21 |
| yves_ | y'all also exctited about that n900? | 12:21 |
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| wazd | heya RST38h, all :) | 12:23 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 12:24 | |
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| lcukx41 | timeless which are you yeahyeahing, the /. link? | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 12:25 |
| lcukx41 | its one way to solve a problem i suppose lol | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | there aren't many others | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | short of buying the company | 12:27 |
| lcukx41 | so pyqt is still fine and good, it just means theres now a duplicate | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | depends who you are | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, basically | 12:28 |
| lcukx41 | yeah, from my gpl perspective i agree, mind you, the other side of me says - its bindings | 12:29 |
| lcukx41 | there should be a way to make bindings automatically anyway | 12:29 |
| lcukx41 | ie without needing different license from the library itself | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, i object to the idea of licensing Headers or Bindings | 12:30 |
| * lcukx41 nods | 12:30 | |
| lcukx41 | i didnt even know they were a different thing anyway | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | well, people are imo stupid | 12:30 |
| timeless_mbp | and stick license blobs on headers | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | a header is not an api, and is not code | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | it's just a random series of uninteresting strings | 12:31 |
| timeless_mbp | a binding actually has code | 12:31 |
| jaska | mmhmm, a local shop started preorders for n900 :| | 12:31 |
| lcukx41 | actually - sticking gpl wrapper around a non gpl library isnt right anyway | 12:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | although calling a binding a creative work is imo questionable | 12:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | lcukx41: it's not illegal | 12:31 |
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| lcukx41 | so i could stick a gpl wrapper around nokia pc quite or around skype | 12:32 |
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| lcukx41 | suite | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | depends | 12:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | nokia pc suite is probably an executable instead of a dll | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | skype for the n900 is actually dll's afaiu | 12:33 |
| *** RST38h has joined #maemo | 12:33 | |
| timeless_mbp | sticking a gpl wrapper around skype and distributing it would be amusing | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm relatively confident you couldn't legally distribute it + the skype library in a bundle w/o permission from skype | 12:33 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'd expect that skype wouldn't give you that permission | 12:33 |
| RST38h | Ok, who is willing to bet that the 2nd (Q1 2009) Maemo5 device will be the thin keyboardless version of N900? =) | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | the library itself, alone, is code, and alone doesn't violate anything | 12:34 |
| lcukx41 | and thats similar to the pyqt surely - and means nokia were right :) | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | personally i'd rather nokia wrote the thing as BSD | 12:34 |
| timeless_mbp | again, i don't personally believe that bindings are creative works | 12:35 |
| * lcukx41 is happy with gpl+lgpl option later (all devs who have coded have agreed) | 12:35 | |
| *** Meizirkki has joined #maemo | 12:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | i didn't spend the time trying to argue this when they indicated their intent | 12:36 |
| lcukx41 | yeah, but moving to lgpl is least resistance and gives community what they desire | 12:36 |
| * timeless_mbp pokes a random Finn for help w/ the Finnish postal system | 12:36 | |
| lcukx41 | was | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | oh i'm just talking about the binding | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | moving Qt itself to LGPL makes sense | 12:37 |
| lcukx41 | having the bindings in house is a good thing (tm) especially if the updates are more in sync and considered when a major release is done | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | if done right, maybe | 12:38 |
| *** madhav has quit IRC | 12:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | but what if i want to write an app using the latest bindings and it turns out i'm running on an older version of Qt? | 12:39 |
| lcukx41 | but it still doesnt help the steamroller effect the pyqt devs must be feeling | 12:39 |
| *** timeless_mbp has left #maemo | 12:39 | |
| lcukx41 | then update | 12:39 |
| *** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo | 12:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | eep, my window died | 12:39 |
| lcukx41 | hah | 12:40 |
| lcukx41 | which laptop is that, the _mbp always made me think it was your phone | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | macbook pro | 12:41 |
| lcukx41 | ahhhh | 12:42 |
| lcukx41 | the penny drops | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | my phones have their name embedded | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | timelE61i | 12:43 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if xchat made fremantle extras yet | 12:43 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, pyqt guys are not unique and this is just what they should be feeling right now :) | 12:43 |
| *** madhav has joined #maemo | 12:43 | |
| lcukx41 | mmm rst? | 12:43 |
| * lcukx41 does know some instances | 12:44 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: that's about Nokia deciding to clone pyqt | 12:44 |
| lcukx41 | yeah i know | 12:44 |
| RST38h | In unrelated news, "EMC co-founder kills himself" | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ?! | 12:45 |
| RST38h | This one actually deserves pity, as he had lung cancer =( | 12:45 |
| lcukx41 | mer has just a topbar doesnt it | 12:54 |
| lcukx41 | i notice fremantle does too | 12:54 |
| lcukx41 | are the bar heights the same? | 12:54 |
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| lcukx41 | hey RST38h i found a neat way to get rid of bare button syndrome! | 12:56 |
| lcukx41 | i have a nice gradiented background which is tinted to the original flat button :) | 12:56 |
| RST38h | Cell phone bill for July 2009 was rur400 :) | 12:56 |
| lcukx41 | looks much nicer and more polished | 12:56 |
| RST38h | That is ~$11 | 12:57 |
| lcukx41 | thats good then isnt it | 12:57 |
| RST38h | Kinda high :) | 12:57 |
| lcukx41 | or is $11 still 6 months wages | 12:57 |
| RST38h | Naah, it is not a lot really | 12:57 |
| lcukx41 | my phone bill was about £150 | 12:57 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I think you should just let wazd work on the backgrounds and buttons | 12:57 |
| lcukx41 | yeah i can now i have support :) | 12:58 |
| RST38h | lcuk: and trust him to do the right thing, he usually does | 12:58 |
| lcukx41 | before i didnt want to have to worry about every button | 12:58 |
| lcukx41 | which would be a ballache | 12:58 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The August bill will probably be higher as they started rounding GPRS sessions to the nearest 100kB | 12:58 |
| lcukx41 | so now i can just make a screen and know it wont look crap | 12:58 |
| RST38h | or actually upper 100kB | 12:58 |
| lcukx41 | urg | 12:58 |
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| lcukx41 | and thats per session i gather | 12:59 |
| lcukx41 | so open, dl 10kb close | 12:59 |
| RST38h | yea, but I rarely dl 10kB :) | 13:00 |
| lcukx41 | but thats the principle | 13:00 |
| lcukx41 | and if it was 810kb | 13:00 |
| lcukx41 | etc | 13:00 |
| RST38h | "gprs session" is the time when your gprs symbol is shown at the display | 13:00 |
| lcukx41 | urg | 13:01 |
| RST38h | as I usually browse a few sites before cutting connection and often run IM clients, it is not THAT bad :) | 13:01 |
| lcukx41 | my phone is really evily clever | 13:01 |
| lcukx41 | the gprs open is on the cancel button | 13:01 |
| lcukx41 | so if you cancel too far it opens gprs window | 13:01 |
| RST38h | what is gprs window anyway? | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | browser | 13:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcukx41: your o2 phone? | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | connect to o2 | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | yeah | 13:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Figures... | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | i hate it | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | its the only function on the phone that annoys | 13:02 |
| RST38h | ah | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | because i cancel cancel cancel and then shit | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | and have to close browser | 13:02 |
| lcukx41 | (i dont literally shit you understand) | 13:03 |
| qwerty12_N810 | My mum had a T630 where the T-zones button on the side would open up the internet... Changed the homepage to mailto:// and she was happy | 13:03 |
| RST38h | Funny, MTS now offers unlimited Internet tariffs, at ~$48/month but ONLY to iPhone users | 13:03 |
| jaska | iphone users are already being robbed through the nose?:D | 13:03 |
| lcukx41 | qwerty12_N810, good idea | 13:04 |
| lcukx41 | infact, even better, ill just try to vape all the stuff | 13:04 |
| RST38h | Kinda useless too, given that you can have 1GB cap for the same $48 | 13:04 |
| lcukx41 | but it tries to be clever and if i delete the crap contacts it restores them | 13:04 |
| lcukx41 | on bootup | 13:04 |
| RST38h | jaska: ah it is funnier than that actually | 13:04 |
| RST38h | jaska: local operators bought shitloads of iPhones from Apple | 13:05 |
| lcukx41 | i bet they did | 13:05 |
| RST38h | jaska: and now they do not know what to do with these | 13:05 |
| * lcukx41 still wonders how well liqbase could run on iphone hardware | 13:06 | |
| RST38h | giving them away as corporate gifts to employees, selling them through electronics chains below cost, etc | 13:06 |
| jaska | im surprised they still dont sell them here unlocked.. only phone ive seen that has been sold locked for any time | 13:06 |
| mavhc | my phone usage is so low o2 keep trying to cut me off | 13:06 |
| jaska | retarded laws they passed to allow it | 13:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: probably about the same, although I doubt you would get YUV buffer | 13:06 |
| lcukx41 | i wouldnt mind | 13:07 |
| lcukx41 | the phone is lores anyway | 13:07 |
| mavhc | apparently if you don't top up your credit every 999 days they get annoyed | 13:07 |
| lcukx41 | id just have to make a proper rgb backend | 13:07 |
| * lcukx41 is pondering how to do backend support anyway | 13:08 | |
| thux | ot is it possible to see wtv files in linux? (win mediacenter recorded tv) | 13:09 |
| lcukx41 | thux, dunno never heard of em before now | 13:11 |
| thux | ok apparently not cause google didn't know | 13:13 |
| thux | they always invent some new formats | 13:13 |
| RST38h | thux: prolly not although I would check if the format has any relation to wmv | 13:16 |
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| RST38h | thux: http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/WTV-to-AVI-Converter-Download-123655.html | 13:19 |
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| konttori | timeless: hey | 13:23 |
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| konttori | timeless: put it back to a outgoing snail mailbox and mark on the cover that person does not live at the address. | 13:24 |
| RST38h | Ah, wonderful! I think we have got a winner troll a t.m.o! | 13:25 |
| jaska | troll.maemo.org | 13:25 |
| RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318223&postcount=384 | 13:26 |
| RST38h | s/a/at | 13:26 |
| Proteous | a/s/l | 13:26 |
| RST38h | 6/6/6 | 13:27 |
| Proteous | hawt | 13:27 |
| Myrtti | meh | 13:27 |
| konttori | how do I register my app as the default app to open .deb files? | 13:28 |
| RST38h | konttori: add it to mime database | 13:29 |
| RST38h | need an example? | 13:29 |
| konttori | please | 13:29 |
| RST38h | a moment | 13:29 |
| konttori | I thought it was enough to add something to .desktop file | 13:29 |
| RST38h | no | 13:29 |
| qwerty12_N810 | IIRC, you need a mimetype file to register the new mimetype, a MimeType entry in the desktop to register your application as being able to open the file, and then a callback function for libosso to get the filename passed... | 13:30 |
| RST38h | konttori: Get ColEm portable sources from here: http://fms.komkon.org/ColEm/ | 13:30 |
| konttori | thanks | 13:30 |
| RST38h | konttori: go to Maemo/Package | 13:30 |
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| RST38h | konttori: you want to look at colem-mime.xml, debian/postinst, debian/postrm | 13:31 |
| konttori | thanks | 13:31 |
| RST38h | konttori: Also, as file opening is done via DBus, you will have to look at EMULib/Maemo/LibMaemo.c at some point | 13:31 |
| konttori | ok. I'll check some python example for that | 13:32 |
| RST38h | python will probably work similarly, except I do not know how it will get started | 13:32 |
| RST38h | looks like you have to run your app as a dbus service to open files like that | 13:33 |
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| VDVsx | packaging/cdbs experts, any help ? : http://pastebin.ca/1548125 | 13:42 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | You sure debian/rules is marked executable? :) | 13:44 |
| qwerty12_N810 | +as | 13:44 |
| VDVsx | lame :( | 13:45 |
| VDVsx | qwerty12_N810, thanks :) | 13:45 |
| VDVsx | +1 beer for you ;) | 13:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lol | 13:46 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 13:46 | |
| timeless_mbp | why/how did Frozen Bubble get into extra(-devel) for fremantle? | 13:46 |
| *** Meizirkki_ has quit IRC | 13:46 | |
| timeless_mbp | it depends on libgl1 which doesn't seem to be available | 13:46 |
| wnd | had you used debuild, it would have taken care of that x-bit automagically ;-) | 13:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: it's my turn to grumble :( | 13:47 |
| timeless_mbp | about what do you wish to grumble? | 13:47 |
| qwerty12_N810 | About libgl1... I uploaded it there, as it worked in the SDK | 13:48 |
| lcukx41 | haha | 13:48 |
| VDVsx | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/frozen-bubble/2.2.0-1maemo1 | 13:48 |
| VDVsx | everthing is satisfied ;) | 13:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | well, ham complains about libgl1 and perl | 13:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Perl... that one can be solved easily | 13:49 |
| qwerty12_N810 | VDVsx: check sdlperl perhaps? :) | 13:49 |
| * RST38h cannot believe frozen bubble is done in perl | 13:50 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | I can't be arsed to deal with the shitty way GL is done in Fremantle ATM | 13:50 |
| VDVsx | its here: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_sdk_free_armel/libgl1/7.1~RC3-0maemo1-recomp1/ | 13:50 |
| lcukx41 | is there *any* mobile device with native standard gl? | 13:50 |
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| timeless_n900 | hello world | 13:51 |
| lcukx41 | ooo poshbosh | 13:51 |
| VDVsx | ah but those packages are only in the SDK repo, nice ;) | 13:51 |
| lcukx41 | timeless, xchat? | 13:51 |
| timeless_n900 | telnet | 13:52 |
| lcukx41 | haha | 13:52 |
| * qwerty12_N810 wonders about how secure Finnish homes are... | 13:52 | |
| timeless_mbp | perl is not installable | 13:53 |
| lcukx41 | qwerty, but timeless is american, however secure lol, he will leave a key under a plantpot or something | 13:53 |
| * VDVsx sends ninjas to steal timeless_mbp's n900 | 13:53 | |
| timeless_mbp | we aren't supposed to leave them lying around | 13:53 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcukx41: haha | 13:53 |
| timeless_mbp | and i'd be terribly annoyed if you bothered my sister and her friend | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | it'd make a really bad last impression | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't want to rely on perl | 13:54 |
| timeless_mbp | you probably want perl-base or something | 13:54 |
| qwerty12_N810 | No, afaik, FB needs stuff from perl-modules | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | we have perl-base 5.8.3-something in the repo | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | s/repo/device | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | well | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | file a bug against something | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | the sdk fwiw is typically broken | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | as shown here | 13:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it should *not* provide things that aren't in the product :) | 13:56 |
| VDVsx | lololol, right | 13:56 |
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| * timeless_mbp got tired of irc over telnet | 13:56 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | show off | 13:57 |
| * lcukx41 thinks he just renamed his laptop :P | 13:57 | |
| *** lcukx41 is now known as lcuk_n_over9000 | 13:57 | |
| lcuk_n_over9000 | :D | 13:57 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: XChat builds for Fremantle BTW, so if you've got a SDK install... :p | 13:57 |
| timeless_mbp | qwerty12_N810: the hardest part about ... | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | um, does the sdk work on osx ?: ) | 13:58 |
| *** lcuk_n_over9000 is now known as lcukx41 | 13:58 | |
| *** rkirti|coffee is now known as rkirti | 13:58 | |
| timeless_mbp | the hardest part about irc over telnet on the n900 is the login procedure | 13:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | timeless_mbp: no, it requires a real computer, with a real os | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | you have a short timeout, and have to type: | 13:58 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lol | 13:58 |
| timeless_mbp | user timeless timeless timeless timeless | 13:58 |
| lcukx41 | liqbase needs better irc caps | 13:58 |
| * timeless_mbp gave up and used copy+paste in xterminal | 13:59 | |
| lcukx41 | i really like middle mouse click pasting in term | 13:59 |
| lcukx41 | i didnt think i would ever get used to it | 13:59 |
| lcukx41 | jeremiah, i just saw on the maemo wiki notes about dll versions | 14:00 |
| lcukx41 | libxsp | 14:00 |
| lcukx41 | when i looked in the first beta im sure it didnt exist | 14:00 |
| lcukx41 | or am i mixing up the x41 stuff again | 14:00 |
| * lcukx41 goes for lunch | 14:03 | |
| lcukx41 | anyone want bacon butties? | 14:03 |
| * timeless_mbp wants a pony | 14:03 | |
| RST38h | in harmattan. | 14:04 |
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| lcukx41 | swap ya for your n900 | 14:04 |
| * lcukx41 has a pony | 14:04 | |
| lcukx41 | its a bit scabby | 14:04 |
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| Federico2 | hi there | 14:04 |
| lcukx41 | but you didnt indicate any quality conditons | 14:04 |
| lcukx41 | hi Federico2 | 14:05 |
| RST38h | lcuk: slightly used? | 14:05 |
| lcukx41 | very used | 14:06 |
| lcukx41 | it used to be a standin for the donkeys on the beach | 14:06 |
| lcukx41 | bbl anyway, timeless my offer stands | 14:06 |
| timeless_mbp | heh, sorry, i don't own any n900's, so i can't swap them | 14:07 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | I'll give you a pony that you just need to put in the oven if you steal the N900 and give it to me | 14:08 |
| Federico2 | ponies are not for nom | 14:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Sure they are! They're delicious fried. And a bit of mayo helps | 14:10 |
| timeless_mbp | they aren't kosher | 14:10 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Hmm... Some Quorn in the shape of a pony then? | 14:11 |
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| Federico2 | agreed | 14:12 |
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| lcukx41 | a perl script in the shape of a pony is more topical! | 14:13 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Just add liqpony to the playground, already | 14:14 |
| lcukx41 | i might if i get the other stuff done lol | 14:15 |
| * timeless_mbp prefers perl dolphin crypto | 14:15 | |
| lcukx41 | qwerty12_N810, your mention of continuous flashing concerns me somewhat | 14:16 |
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| lcukx41 | mmm tho i wonder if running in windowed mode will remove that entirely anyway | 14:17 |
| lcukx41 | since the xv overlay wouldnt be running at 800*480 | 14:17 |
| lcukx41 | which was the only place it was ever noticed | 14:18 |
| lcukx41 | mmm | 14:18 |
| lcukx41 | qwerty12, i hope you dont mind i altered the postinst when i brought it over | 14:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Why would I mind? | 14:19 |
| lcukx41 | i added a message to the "updating cache" message :P | 14:19 |
| lcukx41 | "qwerty12 is a southern jessie" | 14:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Asshole | 14:19 |
| qwerty12_N810 | :p | 14:19 |
| lcukx41 | and it is in the postinst template for all liq* apps :P | 14:20 |
| lcukx41 | payback :D | 14:20 |
| lcukx41 | the notification doofer is better than a message | 14:20 |
| lcukx41 | cos no1 has the chance to approve/cancel, its just fact :P | 14:20 |
| lcukx41 | ( it really says "thanks to qwerty12" :) | 14:21 |
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| rkirti | ~seen tuxmaniac | 14:50 |
| infobot | tuxmaniac <n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac> was last seen on IRC in channel #gsoc, 148d 16h 50m 4s ago, saying: '0'. | 14:50 |
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| lcuk | rkirti, thats a looooooooooong time ago | 14:52 |
| koos | is gdb on maemo5-beta2 broken? I get 'free(): invalid pointer' errors and a core dump afterwards when starting an app | 14:53 |
| rkirti | lcuk: yeah,all my devel friends are active only on channels that are not covered by infobot | 14:53 |
| lcuk | under the radar | 14:54 |
| lcuk | sometimes a good place to be :) | 14:54 |
| koos | I wonder maybe my scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486_1.0.12-8_i386.deb is too new | 15:00 |
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| RST38h | koos: what makes you think it is gdb and not the app you are debugging? | 15:04 |
| koos | RST38h: because it crashes gdb and crashes w/ the maemo-examples and crashes w/ the core file 'gdb gdb core' | 15:05 |
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| koos | RST38h:but it works for you in the x86 mode? | 15:06 |
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| Macer | hm | 15:11 |
| Macer | they're going to start closing post offices soon | 15:11 |
| Macer | :) | 15:11 |
| koos | RST38h:btw. switching to diablo-x86 gdb works just fine | 15:12 |
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| RST38h | koo | 15:25 |
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| RST38h | n | 15:27 |
| RST38h | koos: oh you are doing it in scratchbox.. | 15:27 |
| RST38h | ]]] | 15:27 |
| RST38h | Anything can happen in scratchbox. | 15:27 |
| koos | RST38h:Uhm, so where have you installed maemo5-beta2? | 15:29 |
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| RST38h | I have not | 15:29 |
| RST38h | As to Maemo4, I am debuggin on the actual device | 15:29 |
| RST38h | After finding out that trying to open a file dialog crashes applications in Scratchbox | 15:29 |
| koos | RST38h:like mentioned, diablo works fine for me (indeed gnome-vfs init may hang gdb occasionally) | 15:30 |
| koos | deadlocks afaiks | 15:31 |
| koos | actually, the app hangs, not gdb as I could ^C and get a bt | 15:32 |
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| RST38h | ah | 15:35 |
| * RST38h uses sb2 to compile, as sb1 does not let him use host file syste, | 15:36 | |
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| Meizirkki | phew, i'm getting my KDE back :P | 15:43 |
| Meizirkki | not really maemo related, but i love apt-pinning | 15:43 |
| Meizirkki | i was stupid enough to break my kubuntu-box by installing karmic kde | 15:44 |
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| RST38h | "karmic" in the name should have been a hint =) | 15:45 |
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| zerojayPC | lol | 15:47 |
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| lopz | hi | 15:59 |
| javispedro | lol this is ... | 16:00 |
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| javispedro | tmo has degenerated so much they're already discussing free energy | 16:00 |
| javispedro | what's next? "10 things you're going to love about the N900" digg-like posts? | 16:01 |
| qwerty12_N810 | "iPhone transformation pack for N900" | 16:02 |
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| wazd | "n900 transformation pack for iPhone" :D | 16:02 |
| qwerty12_N810 | That's easy: 1) Burn iPhone 2) Buy N900 3) Profit :p | 16:03 |
| javispedro | .... | 16:03 |
| javispedro | make 1) "Sell iPhone to Apple fanboy wannabe" and you may actually have a Profit. | 16:03 |
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| * javispedro just notices the autobuilder created a nearly empty openttd-dbg package :( | 16:05 | |
| javispedro | lol my fault, my local test package was also empty :P | 16:06 |
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| javispedro | btw, what's the new package (debian/control) icon size for Fremantle? | 16:09 |
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| * VDVsx wonders how will be the Nokla n900 | 16:15 | |
| VDVsx | javispedro, I'm using the same as in diablo | 16:16 |
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| zerojayPC | GAN800: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318266&postcount=1 - Just say no! | 16:16 |
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| MaceN8x0 | /dev/mmcblk0p2 none swap sw 0 0 | 16:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | am i missing something? | 16:21 |
| MaceN8x0 | the swap doesn't seem to initialize on boot in maemo | 16:22 |
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| MaceN8x0 | blah | 16:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | as far as i know the icon size hasn't changed | 16:27 |
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| RST38h | Macer: Have you actually created swap there? | 16:32 |
| JvA | Hi! I'm coding a small status bar plugin on my N810 using C. I've managed to compile it (.so-file) and create a .desktop file. My problem is that even though I've placed them in the right place, the plugin doesn't seem get launched after a reboot. | 16:34 |
| JvA | Can I manually start the plugin, or force the status bar to reread all plugins available? | 16:34 |
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| JvA | So I somehow can get an error message or something telling me what I'm doing wrong. | 16:34 |
| zerojayPC | Does it show up in the list of plugins for the status bar in Control Panel? | 16:36 |
| zerojayPC | And do you have it enabled there? | 16:36 |
| JvA | oh, let's check that | 16:37 |
| JvA | Oh yes :) | 16:38 |
| JvA | I see it + the right icon in a list | 16:38 |
| zerojayPC | Was it also enabled? | 16:38 |
| JvA | However, I just have OK, arrow up, arrow down and Cancel as buttons? How do I enable it? | 16:38 |
| zerojayPC | Should be a checkbox next to it. | 16:39 |
| JvA | Note: It's not a desktop applet, it's a status bar applet. | 16:39 |
| zerojayPC | There's a checkbox to the right of each status bar applet listed. | 16:39 |
| zerojayPC | Those that do not have the checkbox enabled are not shown. | 16:39 |
| zerojayPC | So find your plugin on the list, enable the checkbox and hit OK. | 16:40 |
| zerojayPC | Did you find it? | 16:41 |
| JvA | In the Control Panel I click on Panels then I get a window with two tabs, one saying Statusfält (Status field). In that tab I see my plugin, but no checkboxes. | 16:42 |
| zerojayPC | They should be on the right, next to the scrollbar. one for each. | 16:43 |
| zerojayPC | Do you see 'Battery', 'Sound' and the others there? | 16:43 |
| JvA | Yes | 16:43 |
| zerojayPC | You don't see checkboxes for those either? | 16:44 |
| JvA | No | 16:44 |
| zerojayPC | Are you running latest Diablo? | 16:44 |
| JvA | I'm running Diablo OS 2008 | 16:44 |
| zerojayPC | You should be able to choose which of the status bar plugins to show or hide there. | 16:45 |
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| JvA | Ok, but perhaps there's a way to do it manually? | 16:45 |
| zerojayPC | The up and down buttons rearrange the order of the plugins in the status bar. | 16:45 |
| JvA | You're right, the help manual (clicked on ?) says exactly the same, but I still don't see any checkboxes. Very weird | 16:46 |
| zerojayPC | Some will be dimmed for status icons you can't remove (presence). | 16:47 |
| zerojayPC | Strange. | 16:47 |
| zerojayPC | Are you sure you're on the most recent version of Diablo? | 16:47 |
| JvA | Yes, downloaded and installed the firmware image 2 days ago | 16:47 |
| JvA | hmm | 16:48 |
| JvA | Let's say I've done something wrong in my .desktop-file. Could it mess up the Control Panel? Let's try to delete my .desktop file. | 16:48 |
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| zerojay | I would imagine it's possible. | 16:49 |
| JvA | Deleted it, my plugin disappeared from the list but otherwise, no difference. | 16:50 |
| zerojay | Try rebooting. | 16:50 |
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| JvA | yep | 16:50 |
| JvA | no difference | 16:52 |
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| JvA | I can move them around and it changes the order in the status bar. | 16:56 |
| JvA | So at least it obeys me to some point | 16:56 |
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| haoyu | hi, is that possible to run Maemo on EeePC? | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | You should be able to try to run Mer on it | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | note that Maemo as delivered by Nokia is for ARM processors | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | EeePC runs on Intel processors | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | Nokia provides an SDK for Intel | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | whereas Mer (based on Maemo) is provided as a full platform for both Intel and ARM | 17:00 |
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| haoyu | ah, so sound Mer is the one for me. ok will take a look for Mer | 17:01 |
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| zerojayPC | And please don't go expecting to see all the whiz-bang effects of Maemo 5 either... Mer/SDK are not meant to give you a preview of the N900. | 17:02 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 17:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | anyone here willing to help me write some perl? | 17:03 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise i get to fight strings | 17:03 |
| lcuk | lol | 17:03 |
| RST38h | haoyu: you can run ubunrtu on eeepc | 17:03 |
| pillar | has there been an increase of people asking how to run maemo on their laptop after n900 announcement? | 17:03 |
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| RST38h | no. | 17:03 |
| zerojayPC | Yes, most of them because they want to see the UI effects from the N900 for themselves. | 17:03 |
| haoyu | RST38h, I know, I know I can run ubuntu on eeepc, but I want to try something else.... | 17:03 |
| zerojayPC | I can't tell you how many of my friends have been asking me for that and then got disappointed because they were expecting a live N900 demo on their desktop. | 17:04 |
| pillar | heh | 17:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | zerojay: heh | 17:04 |
| haoyu | is maemo opensource? can't we directly build a maemo for x86? | 17:04 |
| lcuk | zerojayPC, from my perspective, i seem to see a lot of the effects on liqbase 810 every day :) | 17:04 |
| RST38h | well, you can run Fremantle (maemo2005) inside scratchbox in ubuntu running on eeepc | 17:04 |
| zerojayPC | lcuk: Because you're stoned. ;P | 17:05 |
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| zerojayPC | jk | 17:05 |
| lcuk | the videos ive seen might have more polish but i have a zooming desktop and nice fast kinetics | 17:05 |
| slonopotamus | haoyu, not 100% | 17:05 |
| haoyu | okey I know... | 17:05 |
| zerojayPC | I haven't played with it in a while. I'll reinstall it. | 17:05 |
| lcuk | i have only pushed one test engine build of the playground to the repositories | 17:06 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: 2005?? | 17:07 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Yeah, I was wondering about that too. | 17:07 |
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| slonopotamus | ~ping | 17:10 |
| infobot | ~pong | 17:10 |
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| RST38h | s/2005/2009 sorry | 17:16 |
| * RST38h is sloppy, compiling MAME | 17:16 | |
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| timeless_mbp | hey, is Bluetooth LAN = PAN? | 17:17 |
| AStorm | yes | 17:18 |
| AStorm | at least, usually | 17:18 |
| RST38h | ah hey astorm | 17:18 |
| AStorm | there are also bluetooth full LAN devices though | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | eh? | 17:19 |
| AStorm | yeah, bluetooth APs supporting full LAN protocol, not just PAN | 17:21 |
| AStorm | PAN is the bastardized version for small devices | 17:21 |
| RST38h | Hmmm...MAME compiled. Now the scariest part... | 17:22 |
| AStorm | running or writing DSP assembly to make it work reasonably fast? :> | 17:23 |
| RST38h | Running. | 17:23 |
| RST38h | No idea how to supply it with the roms even | 17:24 |
| AStorm | it will run very very slow | 17:24 |
| RST38h | That we will see | 17:24 |
| RST38h | Maybe I should run it on Ubuntu first though | 17:25 |
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| glass_ | AStorm: it will depend largely on what the rom is | 17:29 |
| glass_ | AStorm: there was a mame port for s60 v1 and it could run some old(think pacman) roms ok | 17:29 |
| zerojayPC | RST38h: Compiling it for the tablets? | 17:30 |
| zerojayPC | RST38h: There's a command line option for the ROM directory, throw pacman into it and see if it runs. | 17:31 |
| RST38h | zerojay: not for the tablets | 17:32 |
| RST38h | I see... | 17:32 |
| GAN800 | zerojayPC, weeeeee! | 17:33 |
| glass_ | theres popular front ends | 17:33 |
| glass_ | like xmame.. well i don't know if it technically counts as a front end but anyhow | 17:33 |
| zerojayPC | RST38h: You can run mame with 'mame -createconfig' to create a mame.ini file that you can edit with all your parameters instead. | 17:33 |
| zerojayPC | xmame's dead. | 17:34 |
| zerojayPC | Been dead for like.. 3 years. | 17:34 |
| RST38h | Ehehehe, compiling cyclone.s on x86 is gonna be a problem :))) | 17:34 |
| glass_ | ah | 17:34 |
| RST38h | Looks like I have no other choice but run it on ARM. | 17:34 |
| GAN800 | zerojayPC, I like nilchak's reply. | 17:34 |
| RST38h | You only like it because it refers to Wiki, GAN :) | 17:35 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 17:37 | |
| GAN800 | :roll: | 17:38 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 17:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | these strings don't make any sense: | 17:38 |
| Stskeeps | 'the program 1 is now installed' | 17:38 |
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| Stskeeps | ~[6~(in danish) | 17:41 |
| RST38h | bye bye partition table | 17:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: heh | 17:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: 1 application successfully installed | 17:46 |
| timeless_mbp | the first question i have is whether you can install more than one :) | 17:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | there's an iPhone w/in bluetooth range of my apt | 18:00 |
| slonopotamus | looks like gentoo-on-n8x0 will get sound soon | 18:01 |
| suihkulokki | timeless_mbp: send the n900 advertizment video to it! | 18:01 |
| zerojayPC | lol | 18:01 |
| * timeless_mbp rotfl | 18:01 | |
| timeless_mbp | suihkulokki: is it on my n900? | 18:02 |
| zerojayPC | When I was downtown at a public access point, I sent out 1.mp3 to about 40 people. | 18:02 |
| zerojayPC | It was amazing. | 18:02 |
| suihkulokki | no idea | 18:02 |
| zerojayPC | 1.mp3 was the theme song to The Price Is Right. | 18:02 |
| GiantTalkingCow | I really wish Nokia would release a non-phone version of the n900. I don't need a phone, and sure as hell don't want a contract. Here in the US, mobile contracts are barbaric to say the least. | 18:02 |
| zerojayPC | So I started hearing it all over the place. lol | 18:02 |
| zerojayPC | Buy it from a flagship store and ignore the phone then. | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: i wish people would wish elsewhere | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | if wishes were horses .... | 18:03 |
| zerojayPC | I want a pony. | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: you could try contacting Nokia Care | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | sometimes i am happy i live in europe, where tele markets are at least a little sane | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'd suggest you wait until *after* the n900 goes on sale | 18:04 |
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| GiantTalkingCow | Stskeeps: And the technology's also not in the damned Stone Age. | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | just software :) | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | GiantTalkingCow: nothing stops you from using it as an internet tablet AFAIK | 18:04 |
| zerojayPC | Exactly. | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | and when you want a phone, or 3g data, you have the chipst for it | 18:05 |
| GiantTalkingCow | Stskeeps: I suppose not, but seeing as it's being sold as a phone, getting one without a contract will cost an arm and a leg, whereas if it were sold as a tablet, the price would likely be a tad more reasonable. Oh well, I may end up getting one anyhow, if there's no Android device out by then that catches my eye. | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | tbh for what it contains, even without the 3g part.. it isn't a bad price | 18:06 |
| RST38h | Hmmmm... Why did Flash 9.4 thread went to Offtopic on t.m.oz? | 18:06 |
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| lardman | 'noon all | 18:08 |
| derf | Morning lardman. | 18:08 |
| timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: so | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | the cost was announced | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and it's an unlocked cost | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd have to buy it from the nokia store | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'm sure we'll gladly take your money | 18:09 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: =~ s/went to/go/ | 18:10 |
| lardman | hi derf | 18:10 |
| timeless_mbp | GiantTalkingCow: the cost for this product is not much higher than the previous products | 18:10 |
| javispedro | sorry for leaving previously without notice (isp cut me) | 18:10 |
| derf | timeless_mbp: Weren't the others closer to €400 instead of €550? | 18:11 |
| javispedro | I was asking for the h-a-m pkg icon size because some icons in the Games section in fremantle extras-devel are bigger | 18:11 |
| javispedro | e.g. Mad Bomber. | 18:11 |
| timeless_mbp | derf: wasn't the quoted price 500, not 550? | 18:11 |
| derf | I thought I saw 550. I could be wrong. | 18:11 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/search?q=n900%20500&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 | 18:12 |
| lardman | 500 euro iirc | 18:12 |
| derf | That's still 25%. | 18:12 |
| lardman | yep | 18:12 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, supertux seems to use a larger package icon too. | 18:12 |
| lardman | also add in tech product price deflation | 18:13 |
| derf | Which some might not view as "not much". | 18:13 |
| Myrtti | moo | 18:13 |
| timeless_mbp | derf: perhaps, there's also a faster cpu, more ram, more flash, a non lame camera, and working gps | 18:13 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, what icon ? | 18:13 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, debian/control one. | 18:13 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, as I said same as in diablo | 18:13 |
| derf | timeless_mbp: Right, which is why I'm not comparing it to the cost of an N810 _now_. | 18:13 |
| javispedro | 26x26? | 18:13 |
| * javispedro grabs pixel ruler | 18:14 | |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | it does look to be bigger than before | 18:14 |
| javispedro | timeless, are you looking at the pkg icons? | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | yep | 18:15 |
| javispedro | compared with the simsu one, supertux is definitely bigger | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | the mad bomber icon fwiw is *small* here | 18:15 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, yes, I used 'uuencode -m' | 18:15 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, not "byte" size but picture size | 18:15 |
| RST38h | 499 euros | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: look for the bluemaemo icon | 18:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it's the proper size | 18:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ok? | 18:16 |
| RST38h | 18:16 | |
| VDVsx | javispedro, 26x26, I guess | 18:16 |
| timeless_mbp | VDVsx: don't guess | 18:16 |
| * timeless_mbp has hardware handy | 18:16 | |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, at least should be | 18:16 |
| javispedro | Going to make a screenshot | 18:16 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: dmesg then? ;) | 18:16 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: sorry | 18:16 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, h-a-m works for you ? (m5 sdk) | 18:16 |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: I know :) | 18:17 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, yes, but it can't install anything | 18:17 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, mine don't show anything | 18:17 |
| javispedro | VDVsx, fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot-net | 18:17 |
| javispedro | (in sb context) | 18:17 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, ok ;) | 18:17 |
| javispedro | btw, if you want to laugh a bit: http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM.png | 18:18 |
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| javispedro | (check the pkg sizes) | 18:18 |
| zerojayPC | lardman: Nice try. ;) | 18:18 |
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| VDVsx | javispedro, negative size :P | 18:19 |
| javispedro | We have to tell conny to stop bloating its note taking app ;) | 18:19 |
| javispedro | *his. | 18:19 |
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| * javispedro considers submitting that screenshot to thedailywtf, but since it would start an iphone-n900 flamewars decides it's not worth it. | 18:20 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: edit ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager and set assume-connection to 1 if you wish to install stuff with it | 18:21 |
| javispedro | oh, thanks qwerty12_N810 | 18:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Well, kinda... | 18:22 |
| qwerty12_N810 | It seems :\ | 18:22 |
| javispedro | ok, now this is weird | 18:22 |
| javispedro | my DOSBox package appears with a "Folder" icon instead of | 18:23 |
| javispedro | * The icon I put in debian/control | 18:23 |
| RST38h | Yahoooooo! MAME printed me a page of info | 18:23 |
| javispedro | * The default package icon | 18:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: you should photoshop it for more inflammatory content | 18:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: or claim something weird about it | 18:23 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: dpkg-deb crashes with sigfpe :p | 18:23 |
| javispedro | RST38h, that site is very pro-microsoft. I DON'T want to even imagine what would come out of it. | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | gah, where's wazd | 18:25 |
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| javispedro | ah, I think the "folder" icon means broken package. | 18:28 |
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| javispedro | fwiw, the screenshot with the icon size mess: http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM2.png | 18:31 |
| javispedro | (in the usual "happy colors") | 18:31 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, ah supertux is 48x48 ;) | 18:32 |
| javispedro | lol, supertux was also "bloated" ;) | 18:32 |
| jeremiah | puffy tux! | 18:33 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, looks better than 26x26, IMO | 18:33 |
| javispedro | yeah | 18:33 |
| javispedro | we should standarize | 18:33 |
| lcuk | 80*48 is a nice thumb size :) | 18:33 |
| javispedro | but then, Xb-Maemo-Icon-26 followed by a 48x48 icon would look weird | 18:33 |
| VDVsx | javispedro, let me check one thing ;) | 18:33 |
| kirma | bloated? can't be :) | 18:34 |
| javispedro | 858 TiB is a bit bloated, I think ;) | 18:34 |
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| lcuk | tux should diet | 18:35 |
| lcuk | or just render him at 26*48 | 18:35 |
| javispedro | attitude, instead, needs to gain some weight. | 18:35 |
| VDVsx | lolol | 18:35 |
| zerojayPC | GeneralAntilles: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318310&postcount=12 | 18:35 |
| lcuk | what does attitude look like | 18:35 |
| javispedro | lcuk, http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM2.png | 18:36 |
| javispedro | (check the pkg size :P) | 18:36 |
| GAN8001 | zerojayPC, magic! | 18:36 |
| lcuk | theres some funky things goin on in your xepyhr | 18:36 |
| javispedro | i'm an specialist :) | 18:37 |
| javispedro | in that screenshot you can see nearly 3 bugs | 18:37 |
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| javispedro | well, 4. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | * the colors swapped bug. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | * the "mad" package size bug. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | * the "we need to standarize on a better icon size" feature request | 18:37 |
| javispedro | * and the "why do broken packages get a folder icon" bug | 18:38 |
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| javispedro | fortunately, none of them happen on real device. | 18:39 |
| lcuk | did you put bug reports in anyway | 18:40 |
| lcuk | or was the confermation obtained after registering bugs | 18:40 |
| javispedro | only for the colors issue so far ;) | 18:40 |
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| javispedro | for the others i think i will delete my dpkg database before submitting them... | 18:41 |
| lcuk | heh | 18:41 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: so 26x26 is too small? | 18:49 |
| RST38h | javispedro: can't 40x40 be used in the app manager? | 18:49 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, I think this speaks by itself http://depot.javispedro.com/MadHAM2.png, considering most icons save for the folder and supertux are 26x26 | 18:50 |
| javispedro | supertux icon is 48x48 | 18:50 |
| javispedro | I would settle for 48x48 icon size, but then there's the problem that the Maemo spec says "26x26" (in fact, the field name is Xb-Maemo-Icon-26) | 18:51 |
| GAN800 | javispedro, feel free to patch! | 18:53 |
| javispedro | policy? | 18:53 |
| javispedro | the problem here is policy/guidelines, not code. | 18:53 |
| RST38h | javis: Frankly, they look ok to me | 18:54 |
| javispedro | RST38h, of course, I'm not going to argue. This is a low priority request ;) | 18:55 |
| RST38h | javis: But if the tux is 48x48, it should be trivial to make AppManager use 40x40 icons instead. This will not violate any packaging guidelines. | 18:55 |
| javispedro | 40x40 icons are allowed? | 18:55 |
| RST38h | javis: Absolutely no documentation changes required, as you are SUPPOSED to supply 40x40 icons | 18:55 |
| javispedro | as I said, the field is "Xb-Maemo-Icon-26". the name itself says "26x26" icons. | 18:56 |
| RST38h | ah, right: it takes the icon from the control file | 18:57 |
| RST38h | not from the package itself | 18:57 |
| javispedro | yeah | 18:57 |
| RST38h | So, can AppManager be modified to look for a bigger icon in the package and revert to Xb-Maemo-Icon-26 if not found? | 18:58 |
| GAN800 | javispedro, either the code or the policy. | 18:58 |
| RST38h | because it would probably look like shit if we started including 40x40 icons into control files | 18:58 |
| GAN800 | javiapedro, both are open. | 18:58 |
| GAN800 | If you'd like to propose a change send a [Policy] email to -developers. | 18:59 |
| javispedro | GAN800, bah, I would do some stupid thing like promoting both Xb-Maemo-Icon-26 and Xb-Maemo-Icon-48 ;) | 18:59 |
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| GAN800 | Consistency is king here. | 18:59 |
| javispedro | yeah, but apt-get lists are going to get big | 18:59 |
| javispedro | so, maybe just drop the -26 moniker | 19:00 |
| javispedro | and tell packagers to provide a "up to 48x48" icon. | 19:00 |
| RST38h | the lists will still become big | 19:00 |
| RST38h | But, can I suggest something? Something X-Fade may do? | 19:01 |
| javispedro | yeah RST38h, but consider that the use case is that the app manager needs to download icons quickly | 19:01 |
| javispedro | and being compatible with standard apt repo layout would be a plus. | 19:01 |
| javispedro | how does ubuntu do this http://www.gnomejournal.org/images/43.png anyone knows? | 19:03 |
| javispedro | (warn: big 1280x1024 shot) | 19:03 |
| jeremiah | That is a gnome tool | 19:04 |
| RST38h | Ok, look, in the repo we already have packages that contain 26x26 icons in control files and ALSO 40x40 icons as separate files | 19:04 |
| jeremiah | Not specific to oobuntoo | 19:04 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, I think that is the way to do it. | 19:04 |
| javispedro | jeremiah, but does it work in any way like Maemo's current Xb-Maemo-Icon field? | 19:04 |
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| RST38h | It should be relatively trivial to write a script that iterates over packages in the repo, extracts 40x40 icons, encodes them and replaces 26x26 icons in the control files with the converted40x40 icons | 19:05 |
| jeremiah | No, that has nothing to do with packages. | 19:05 |
| jeremiah | javispedro: That is only what you want to see on your menu bar | 19:05 |
| javispedro | RST38h, extract the first icon found _inside_ the package is what windows does. | 19:05 |
| javispedro | and the results are ugly at best. | 19:05 |
| javispedro | (see your appmgr.cpl, where most programs are represented by their "uninstall" program icon) | 19:06 |
| javispedro | fortunately, on maemo most packages only ship one icon, but even then it smells hackish.. | 19:06 |
| jeremiah | javispedro: I think it is good because it shows up in the AM. | 19:07 |
| jeremiah | That is useful | 19:07 |
| jeremiah | Once the package is on the machine you can have bigger icons | 19:07 |
| javispedro | jeremiah, but that's the current approach, I like it too. | 19:07 |
| jeremiah | oh, good. :) | 19:07 |
| javispedro | it's the only way the app mgr can download all those icons in a blast | 19:07 |
| javispedro | ah, you also mean that you're fine with 26x26 icons? | 19:08 |
| * jeremiah shuts up since he isn't really understanding the whole conversation. | 19:08 | |
| javispedro | don't worry, my english is horrible, I know. | 19:08 |
| jeremiah | javispedro: Not at all. | 19:08 |
| jeremiah | You write good English. | 19:09 |
| jeremiah | Or rather, you write English well. | 19:09 |
| javispedro | that's because you haven't listened to me yet ;) | 19:09 |
| jeremiah | :] | 19:09 |
| zerojayPC | lol | 19:09 |
| javispedro | think qgil's accent is bad, just hope you never listen to me ;) | 19:09 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Go to Birmingham, UK and you'll appriciate your accent... | 19:10 |
| javispedro | well, jeremiah, the discussion started because we found some extras-devel packages using 48x48 in debian/control field. | 19:10 |
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| javispedro | those look good in fremantle package manager, and I though it would be cool if we could standardize on that size | 19:11 |
| lardman | nothing wrong with qgil's accent | 19:11 |
| lardman | certainly not when I've spoken to him | 19:12 |
| timeless | javis, did you check the bluemaemo icon size | 19:12 |
| lardman | hell of a lot better than my Spanish in any case! :) | 19:12 |
| timeless | lardman,mit's accented | 19:12 |
| javispedro | timeless, nope, bluemaemo does not appear in my package list, I started searching for it but forgot middle way ;) | 19:12 |
| timeless | well unforget | 19:12 |
| javispedro | lardman, well, I am the worst person to say anything about other people's accent, so forgive me :) | 19:13 |
| lardman | :) | 19:13 |
| * lcuk gulps at the amount of console output generated | 19:15 | |
| timeless | how do i ask apt for the full path to a deb | 19:16 |
| timeless | or the actual repo | 19:16 |
| javispedro | timeless, bluemaemo is not on x86 | 19:16 |
| javispedro | http://maemo.org/packages/view/bluemaemo/ only armel. | 19:16 |
| javispedro | timeless, if you want of a fremantle extras package, use http://maemo.org/packages/ | 19:17 |
| zerojayPC | hmm... anyone interested in a maemo podcast? | 19:19 |
| timeless | you only need the icon field | 19:20 |
| timeless | just steal kit | 19:20 |
| RST38h | javispedro: But Maemo is not Windows. | 19:20 |
| * timeless is walking through helsinki and tyyping from an n900 | 19:21 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: The .desktop file inside the package clearly tells which icon is the app icon. And the size of the icon is also known | 19:21 |
| RST38h | javispedro: So, the script running over repo packages can pick EXACTLY the 40x40 app icons it needs | 19:21 |
| timeless | rst, right windows is sane | 19:21 |
| timeless | using non power of two sizesd. yuck | 19:21 |
| javispedro | RST38h, and then publish them somehow in the repo? | 19:22 |
| RST38h | Let us just say, Windows version of FireFox does not leave processes hanging in memory when it is not running | 19:22 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Simply extract them, encode them, and insert them back into control files in each package | 19:22 |
| javispedro | (so that h-a-m does not have to download each and every .deb to render the list of available packages) | 19:22 |
| derf | RST38h: Unless you ask it to. | 19:22 |
| RST38h | javispedro: of course this will blow up the control file size =( | 19:22 |
| RST38h | derf: Can you really? | 19:23 |
| javispedro | yeah, we are back to stage one again. | 19:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: wait, I think it is not that bad | 19:23 |
| derf | Doesn't it have some "quick start" feature that was their answer to IE's start times, since most of the IE components were resident all the time? | 19:23 |
| RST38h | javispedro: let me check someting | 19:23 |
| RST38h | derf: Never seen it | 19:23 |
| javispedro | derf, it had, but third-party iirc. | 19:23 |
| derf | I know the old Mozilla suite did. | 19:23 |
| derf | Not sure about Firefox. | 19:23 |
| javispedro | firefox quickstart says lots of hits in google. | 19:24 |
| timeless | quicklaunch was dropped ages ago | 19:24 |
| derf | Since, of course, the solution to your competitor having his browser in RAM all the time is to have _two_ browsers in RAM all the time. | 19:24 |
| RST38h | javis: ! It is not that bad ! | 19:24 |
| timeless | not in ram | 19:24 |
| RST38h | javis: look here: | 19:24 |
| RST38h | -rwxrwxrwx 2 root root 1045 2009-01-17 18:25 vgba-26x26.png | 19:24 |
| RST38h | -rwxrwxrwx 2 root root 1619 2009-01-17 18:25 vgba-40x40.png | 19:24 |
| javispedro | base64 it | 19:25 |
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| timeless | what isn't used is swapped out | 19:25 |
| RST38h | javis: PNGs are compressed, so the size for 40x40 is not that much bugger | 19:25 |
| RST38h | javis: base64ing it is irrelevant as base64 will always blow it up by the same percentage | 19:25 |
| derf | timeless: That's true, Windows agressively swaps out everything, which is one of the reasons it's so godawful slow. | 19:25 |
| javispedro | so I guess I should propose 40x40 icon to -developers | 19:26 |
| javispedro | or else shut up ;) | 19:26 |
| RST38h | Maemo does not though, not unless swap is enabled | 19:26 |
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| RST38h | So once you have got a process in maemo memory, it stays there | 19:26 |
| RST38h | javis: I think you should discuss it with x-fade and jeremiah first, then make a joint proposal | 19:27 |
| derf | And if you have swap enabled, you might as well just reboot the device now, because it'll do it for you once it starts pegging it too hard. | 19:27 |
| RST38h | javis: people who actually make a difference should support it | 19:27 |
| javispedro | Maemo does swap read only mmaped files back to disk. | 19:27 |
| RST38h | derf: never happened to me | 19:27 |
| javispedro | even if swap is not enabled. | 19:27 |
| derf | It may have been a cheap card. | 19:27 |
| RST38h | well, it is not swapping realy :) | 19:28 |
| javispedro | that's not swap of course, but saying the binary is on memory all the time is also not true | 19:28 |
| RST38h | javis: htop. | 19:28 |
| javispedro | (.text & .rodata being mmap'd ro) | 19:28 |
| derf | But even if it didn't reboot, once it started swapping, it would often be _faster_ to reboot. Swap was really, really slow. | 19:28 |
| * RST38h has not noticed too much slowdown, but the tablet has not become any faster either | 19:30 | |
| RST38h | Maybe it was simply not using the swap | 19:30 |
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| javispedro | well, swapiness is set to a very low value in maemo | 19:31 |
| RST38h | shit, gentlemen, I hate to ask this, but could someone supply me with a couple of rom sets that actually WORK in mame4all? | 19:31 |
| derf | The effect was not subtle. | 19:31 |
| RST38h | anything that I try downloading off the Net seems to have wrongly named/mismatching files | 19:31 |
| derf | If you were pegging it, you knew. | 19:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Are there any vmm patches that know about flash erase blocks? | 19:34 |
| timeless | heh | 19:34 |
| timeless | you want to use the internal volume for swap? | 19:35 |
| javispedro | the current linux code currently swaps in/out in 8 (iirc) page blocks, it should be trivial to make it swap in/out bigger blocks | 19:35 |
| timeless | our understanding is that getting that stuff working well would take half a year or more | 19:35 |
| RST38h | javispedro: there is an easier solution | 19:36 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: I was wondering about it. If for example swapout always defaulted to a circular buffer write - with contiguous writing being the default - it'd greatly improve swapout speed - maybe by an order of magnitude. | 19:36 |
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| derf | SpeedEvil: http://www.usenix.org/event/hotos09/tech/full_papers/saxena/saxena_html/ | 19:36 |
| RST38h | javispedro: instead of improving swap, one can try reducing the amount of resident code and data in memory | 19:37 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: One good candidate for disabling is Modest, as the WHOLE program has to be present in memory for background mail checks | 19:37 |
| javispedro | :P | 19:37 |
| timeless | rst, one can try to get pigs to fly | 19:37 |
| timeless | ot won't work | 19:38 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Another good candidate is browserd, although the current "design" requires it to be resident | 19:38 |
| derf | RST38h: I would also like a pony. | 19:38 |
| derf | Made of CAKE. | 19:38 |
| RST38h | derf: lcuk has one, he offered it to people today | 19:38 |
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| derf | lcuk has a cake pony? | 19:38 |
| lcuk | the cake is a lie | 19:38 |
| derf | I suspected as much. | 19:38 |
| lcuk | it was a scabby pony | 19:38 |
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| lcuk | cos timeless said he would swap me his n900 for | 19:39 |
| timeless | did not | 19:39 |
| lcuk | did too | 19:39 |
| RST38h | javispedro: to do background mail checks, you really just need a small program, possibly even started as a cron job | 19:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h, well, to tell the truth, I always wondered why a Debian system did not use a GNU mail system (fetchmail and the trope) | 19:40 |
| derf | lcuk: I suspect more than just the cake may be a lie here. | 19:40 |
| timeless | rst, but how do you show the user a pesky "i can't trust your server" dialog | 19:40 |
| timeless | or "your password seems wrong" | 19:41 |
| javispedro | parsing fetchmail logs ? ;) | 19:41 |
| javispedro | at gui start. | 19:41 |
| * lcuk smiles at his search working as expected | 19:41 | |
| timeless | ok, my sister insists i stop irc'ing from dinner | 19:41 |
| javispedro | timeless, obey :) | 19:42 |
| kulve | lcuk: did you already start learning neon? :) | 19:43 |
| lcuk | no kulve | 19:43 |
| lcuk | ive got too much still to do here | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | derf: interesting. | 19:44 |
| Macer | ok wtf | 19:45 |
| Macer | i have copied maemo over to the internal sd | 19:45 |
| RST38h | 19:45 | |
| Macer | and the maemosd.item looks good | 19:45 |
| Macer | it boots. and right before it gets into maemo | 19:45 |
| Macer | it reboots | 19:45 |
| Macer | are you not supposed to use .item for booting maemo or something? | 19:47 |
| RST38h | You do not show use pesky dialogs because it is the BACKGROUND mail check. The user is not there. | 19:48 |
| javispedro | RST38h, I am definitely interesting in knowing why I am not getting mail. | 19:48 |
| javispedro | *interested. | 19:48 |
| RST38h | If you really insist on showing pesky crap to the user, show it when Modest full UI starts. Or show it via a status bar icon if you are REALLY determined to bug the user to death | 19:48 |
| RST38h | javis: Only when you open the mail client, really | 19:49 |
| javispedro | RST38h, yeah, I agree with that point. | 19:49 |
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| RST38h | javis: Besides, see, Modest is not telling me why I am not getting email. It gets stuck on my pop3 account and just hangs in memory until reboot | 19:49 |
| RST38h | Or maybe it gets stuck on my gmail IMAP account, who knows...Who cares... | 19:50 |
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| derf | Or port gnubiff. It has a penguin that bounces. | 19:50 |
| derf | Everyone likes bouncing penguins. | 19:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | derf: Does it also dance? | 19:51 |
| derf | It flaps its wings while it bounces. | 19:51 |
| derf | That's about as close as it gets. | 19:51 |
| derf | I think you can provide your own custom animations, though. | 19:52 |
| * javispedro can't believe the "pepetual motion" tmo thread. | 19:52 | |
| Macer | odd | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: I heard that before. | 19:53 |
| Macer | i guess you can't use maemo as an .item | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: seemingly forever :) | 19:53 |
| Macer | although i remember doing that before | 19:53 |
| RST38h | derf: can I have a stuffed penguin, preferable lightly used? =) | 19:53 |
| RST38h | preferablY | 19:53 |
| derf | RST38h: No, but you can have one made of cake. | 19:54 |
| * RST38h isn't sure cake will do the job in this case... | 19:54 | |
| Macer | ah well. it's working again. now if only someone would build abiword with cups support for maemo4 :) | 19:54 |
| Macer | heh | 19:54 |
| Macer | *cough* | 19:54 |
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| derf | I really should port gnubiff. It's gotta be better than leaving a browser window open to my webmail. | 19:55 |
| javispedro | to defend modest, i'm very happy with it, i still have to see it crash. | 19:56 |
| Macer | what was the command to boot from the SD? | 19:56 |
| Macer | in order to get it to autoboot from the sd that is | 19:56 |
| Macer | ask: blahblah or something like that :) | 19:57 |
| javispedro | Macer, flasher? | 19:57 |
| derf | I've yet to even use it. Everyone I've asked says it handles multiple, large IMAP folders poorly. | 19:57 |
| javispedro | i use pop3; i store mail in the server either way | 19:57 |
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| Macer | chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mer | 19:58 |
| Macer | nm ;) | 19:58 |
| derf | Yes, but pop3 clients like to download _all_ the mail locally. | 19:58 |
| javispedro | derf, that's fine with me, I control the pop3 server. | 19:58 |
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| javispedro | mail read using the imap interface won't get downloaded to pop3 | 19:59 |
| RST38h | javispedro: never worked for me | 19:59 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: goes haywire if your wifi connection is unstable | 19:59 |
| RST38h | javispedro: goes haywire on pop3 servers | 19:59 |
| RST38h | javispedro: goes haywire on IMAP servers with large folders | 19:59 |
| RST38h | javispedro: does not delete emails that you "delete" | 20:00 |
| javispedro | never seen it fail here, even when using my ugly libicd-network-wpa thing. | 20:00 |
| Macer | alrighty. awesome | 20:00 |
| javispedro | RST38h, yeah, that last one | 20:00 |
| * Macer has his n810 back in real business :) | 20:00 | |
| javispedro | the does not delete emails bits me a lot | 20:00 |
| * javispedro adds it to his agenda | 20:00 | |
| Macer | maemo4tw | 20:00 |
| Macer | (until n900 comes out i guess) | 20:01 |
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| * javispedro find yet another maemo-hater blog whose author has turned to the "good side" just to please the want-n900 audience. | 20:04 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: btw, in relation to freeing up memory, I have almost forgotten the metalayer-crawler | 20:05 |
| RST38h | another waste of memory and cpu time | 20:05 |
| Macer | lol | 20:05 |
| Macer | maemo is great | 20:05 |
| Macer | :) | 20:05 |
| Macer | it always has been | 20:05 |
| javispedro | RST38h, another one I've never had to kill :S | 20:05 |
| Macer | although it did kind of suck without the qwerty in the n800 | 20:05 |
| javispedro | (even thought I've read horror stories from this one) | 20:05 |
| Macer | i think i have pains in my wrist still from pecking my n800 to death with they stylus | 20:05 |
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| GAN800 | Macer, that's what the finger keyboard was for. | 20:06 |
| zerojayPC | javispedro: Who are you refering to this time? lol | 20:07 |
| GAN800 | I hit 40-50wpm on this thing. | 20:07 |
| javispedro | zerojayPC, the blogger? this guy: http://tamss60.tamoggemon.com/ | 20:07 |
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| RST38h | Maniac, maniac :) | 20:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro: the crawler is what makes the tablet hang for a minute or so when it has just booted up | 20:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro: its results are basically used only by the default media player | 20:08 |
| javispedro | RST38h, yeah, I know. | 20:08 |
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| GAN800 | The crawler, Modest and MicroB are what make RST38h exagerate about Maemo's deficiencies. | 20:09 |
| RST38h | javispedro: so, you can just as well show a dialog at the player startup "Do you want me to search for new media files and add them to the library?" | 20:09 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, you know my opinions. I love Tracker. | 20:09 |
| javispedro | If I were a Maemo designer there won't be hildon-fm. Just Tracker. | 20:09 |
| RST38h | GAN: I am not actually trying to exagerate anything, I am fairly ok with the current Maemo | 20:10 |
| RST38h | GAN: But the problems are still there, and they won't go anywhere unless you talk about them | 20:10 |
| konttori | javispedro: if it's of any concelation, h-fm uses tracker | 20:10 |
| konttori | for the metadata. | 20:10 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Funny, had to kill Tracker on my Ubuntu desktop, with extreme prejudice | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: did we ever get around to helping you make source package themes for theme maker? | 20:11 |
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| Stskeeps | wb qwerty12_N810 | 20:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: terrible resource hog, even on an x86 system. Will probably slow tablets down to a crawl | 20:11 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: I have now the needed info to make them | 20:11 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Thank you, Stskeeps | 20:11 |
| konttori | I think I've even tested making them. | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | alright :) | 20:11 |
| konttori | just have not been interested so far in uploading them | 20:12 |
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| javispedro | RST38h, to tell the truth, I killed the desktop one. In Debian Lenny, it serves no purpose. it's just a slow search app. | 20:12 |
| konttori | Hmm.. oh. Yeah, I need dpkg-buildpackage for windows. | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yeah | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | that was the blocker | 20:12 |
| konttori | or I just need to create the .changes and .dsc files manually | 20:12 |
| javispedro | but I like what a proper designed one could do. | 20:12 |
| konttori | but that's pretty easy to do anyway | 20:12 |
| konttori | I've been doing that in the past sometimes | 20:13 |
| konttori | so, not a biggie | 20:13 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Probably can't do much. Does not replace file manager, for sure | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: was there any video of non-transition maemo5 btw? | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | kinda curious to see it | 20:14 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: May be a nice addon, for cases where you *know* what you are looking for, but not at the cost I have observed on the desktop :) | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | (apologies for all the questions, i'm catching up after finally having time to work on maemo stuff) | 20:14 |
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| gunni | Is there any info available, if harmatten will run on a N900? I will buy it anyways, but as Qt Fan i am interessted in this question. | 20:15 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: um. if none of the current videos has, then yeah, if not, I cannot make you one. | 20:16 |
| konttori | We have been asked not to contribute additional info for the time being | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | would be interesting from mer pov | 20:16 |
| Stskeeps | gunni: not much info about harmattan yet tbh | 20:17 |
| konttori | Well, have a look at quims and jussis video. those might have something (not sure) | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | but it's an understandable worry :) | 20:17 |
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| Stskeeps | konttori: ah, i meant how maemo5 acts when all the transitions are turned off :) your transitioncontrol stuff | 20:17 |
| konttori | qt will at least run on n900, so you can develop on qt. | 20:17 |
| konttori | oh. well, it will skip the transitions | 20:18 |
| GAN800 | It's a conspiracy! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=318355#post318355 | 20:18 |
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| Stskeeps | but yeah, i can understand why marketing want a controlled time before release | 20:18 |
| javispedro | heh, so we can forget about the dmesg dump | 20:18 |
| madhav | congratulations guys! for n900 | 20:18 |
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| lcuk | konttori, transitions wouldnt occur in qt? o_O | 20:18 |
| gunni | Stskeeps: thx, as said its not that necessary, but just interesting. I never owned a mobile, as i never needed one, but as i saw the n900 2 days ago, i fell in love :) | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | gunni: i can understand why you did :) | 20:19 |
| madhav | lcuk: wat r ur views on N900 | 20:19 |
| konttori | lcuk: Umm... well, some would, e.g. opening a window. | 20:19 |
| lcuk | madhav, ive already started sharpening my elbows. hell or high water wouldnt stop me from getting one | 20:19 |
| konttori | also, I think stacked window can be implemented in qt as well. And so can dialogs. afaik. | 20:19 |
| GAN800 | gunni, you can use Qt just fine on Fremantle. | 20:20 |
| lcuk | you can run qt on diablo | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | stacked window is basically a traditional window with a different window type | 20:20 |
| lcuk | stop worrying | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | should be fine :P | 20:20 |
| madhav | lcuk: im also..waiting to get hands on new N900 | 20:20 |
| GAN800 | My own suspicion is that Harmattan will work fine, but there's no way of confirming that right now. | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: any things to back that up? | 20:20 |
| javispedro | Reggie is also founder of ClieSource? | 20:21 |
| gunni | I ever said to me: "When i buy a mobile, it has to be exactly to miy wishes, like camera, wlan, gps, keyboard, and at best would run linux, and you can install all needed sofware like ssh, vpn ..." So this would really be the first device that matches my wishes 100% | 20:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | People would lynch Nokia if the N900 only ever got one release. | 20:21 |
| javispedro | lol, I've spent half my life browsing his sites. | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | that's a good point yeah | 20:21 |
| lcuk | you gotta be some kind of super shit coder to create a gui that wont run on something that looks as powerful as an n900 | 20:21 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, only suppositions about timelines, approximate timeframes and how those might correspond to future hardware. | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N810: one major release you mean | 20:21 |
| lcuk | and from what i know, qt is very slick and stable | 20:21 |
| zerojayPC | The fact that the N900 is pretty much the new flagship tells me we don't have to worry too much about Harmattan not running on it. | 20:21 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Stskeeps: true | 20:22 |
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| lcuk | davids shopper on 810 rocks \m/ | 20:22 |
| zerojayPC | Unless Harmattan's got something completely fucking way out there... I doubt there would be a reason, hardware-wise, it wouldn't run. | 20:22 |
| johnsq | Hi | 20:22 |
| javispedro | hi :) | 20:22 |
| zerojayPC | lcuk: I found that it has a lot of strange bugs. :/ | 20:22 |
| zerojayPC | And doesn't like any other theme other than default. Hehe | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: freaking lasers shooting interface straight into your eyes | 20:23 |
| GAN800 | i.e., OMAP4 isn't on track to be shipping by the time Harmattan is likely to be released, and even if it were, OMAP4 isn't radically different enough from OMAP3 (in the way OMAP3 is to OMAP2 now) to break backwards compatability. | 20:23 |
| * zerojayPC blind | 20:23 | |
| zerojayPC | My kid is in the living room singing "here I am, rock me like a hurricane.." lol | 20:24 |
| Stskeeps | uhoh.. 80s kid? :P | 20:24 |
| lcuk | zerojayPC, bugs can be cured and polished and overcome | 20:24 |
| javispedro | Stskeeps, read that Snow crash book? ;) | 20:24 |
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| lcuk | the fact is - qt can run on now hardware, why would anyone even doubt it cannot run on future hw | 20:24 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: i think i may have read it but i think i wasn't aware enough at that point to fully appreciate it | 20:24 |
| zerojayPC | lcuk: Yep. Agreed. I just didn't feel I could trust my grocery list to it. | 20:24 |
| GAN800 | zerojayPC, what happened to you IRC narrator? :D | 20:25 |
| lcuk | heh | 20:25 |
| zerojayPC | GAN800: Whaaa? | 20:25 |
| javispedro | bah, could those maemo domain spammers do something else other than installing outdated wordpress versions | 20:25 |
| * GAN800 recalls zerojay's kid reading IRC scrollback to him some months ago. | 20:25 | |
| zerojayPC | lol | 20:26 |
| zerojayPC | Forgot all about that. | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: short answer to podcast.. there was the other stuff related to maemo magazine etc, could try to coordinate efforts | 20:26 |
| zerojayPC | My organic text-to-speech reader is in the living room playing with his hermit crab. | 20:26 |
| zerojayPC | Stskeeps: Good idea. | 20:27 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: and yah, 'good idea' applies to the idea ;) | 20:27 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders if hulu.com works on n900 | 20:28 | |
| zerojayPC | Wouldn't work for me anyways since I'm on the internet and not in the US... as if that should really matter somehow. | 20:29 |
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| zerojayPC | GAN800: You just reminded me of something that happened back when my kid was reading my IRC window to me. lol | 20:29 |
| zerojayPC | I swear like a sailor... and I don't censor myself around my kid... but he has absolutely no desire to swear himself. | 20:30 |
| zerojayPC | He got all freaked out when he read someone saying "fuck you" and only realized what he said 2 seconds after he said it. | 20:30 |
| zerojayPC | He gasped and slapped his two hands over his mouth. lol | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: proxychains is a brilliant brilliant tool. | 20:31 |
| * javispedro was hoping it was not a piece of nsfw ascii arts. | 20:31 | |
| Stskeeps | and SSH. | 20:31 |
| zerojayPC | Stskeeps: Yes, I know, but I shouldn't HAVE to use it. | 20:31 |
| GAN800 | Ha | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | guess how i plan to survive dubbed polish tv | 20:31 |
| zerojayPC | Some sausage? | 20:32 |
| zerojayPC | :) | 20:32 |
| zelrikriando | is there a version of maemo for laptops? :) | 20:33 |
| * javispedro wonders when is tmo going to discuss the existence of god. | 20:33 | |
| johnsq | yes linux | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | zerojayPC: hildon doesn't work well without touch | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | err | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | zelrikriando: | 20:33 |
| zelrikriando | ok | 20:34 |
| zelrikriando | so it's useless on a pc is that what you say | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | nah, just a bit annoying to use | 20:34 |
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| zelrikriando | ok | 20:34 |
| johnsq | zelrikriando: why do you want this? to test, you can install the sdk | 20:34 |
| zelrikriando | ok | 20:35 |
| zelrikriando | I ll try | 20:35 |
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| slonopotamus | where i get sources for maemo libasound2-plugins? | 20:37 |
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| javispedro | slonopotamus, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/a/alsa-plugins/ ? | 20:40 |
| slonopotamus | meh, i was searching under 'liba' | 20:40 |
| slonopotamus | javispedro, thanks | 20:41 |
| javispedro | np | 20:41 |
| javispedro | btw, does http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/360/ work? even with flash on it still requests me to install it. | 20:41 |
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| slonopotamus | yeah, 'you need adobe flash(r) player' | 20:42 |
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| javispedro | well, just in case anybody is interested, here is the swf file for the 360 view: http://maemo.nokia.com/flash/Main.swf | 20:43 |
| javispedro | (until now I had not bothered to check what all the buttons were for) | 20:44 |
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| slonopotamus | gentoo-on-n8x0 got sound working! | 20:44 |
| javispedro | :) | 20:45 |
| qwerty12_N810 | congrats | 20:45 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: nice. than i should run update later. | 20:45 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, not pushed yet, fixing last bits | 20:45 |
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| osku- | Hello | 20:46 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: i still haven't build the new power IR-LED modul | 20:47 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, you scare me :) | 20:48 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: I don't know if they work, but they should have 75% more range. | 20:49 |
| * slonopotamus knows absolutely nothing about ir besides what everyone who has remote control knows :) | 20:50 | |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: requiring osso-dsp-rx-44-modules i assume? | 20:51 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, sure | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:51 |
| Luke-Jr | is that kernel mods for ALSA? | 20:51 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: no overlay changes...? | 20:52 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, <slonopotamus> johnsq, not pushed yet, fixing last bits | 20:52 |
| vasily_pupkin | Hi | 20:52 |
| vasily_pupkin | anybody know, will prelink make my diablo at n810 unusable? | 20:52 |
| zerojayPC | Prelink shouldn't make anything unusable. | 20:52 |
| vasily_pupkin | oh.. | 20:52 |
| slonopotamus | need to package funky alsa-plugins | 20:52 |
| vasily_pupkin | :) | 20:52 |
| vasily_pupkin | this is maemo | 20:53 |
| vasily_pupkin | here i can kill whole system with just updating shared libpng :] | 20:53 |
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| zerojayPC | prelinking is reversable anyways... you could just remove prelinking from apps that don't work with it if there's an issue. | 20:53 |
| vasily_pupkin | ... if this isn't hildon desktop :] | 20:53 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, what version of alsa-plugins does mer use? | 20:54 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, the same as diablo? or you forward-poorted their patches to newer versions? | 20:55 |
| vasily_pupkin | hmmm | 20:55 |
| vasily_pupkin | dpkg-gencontrol: error: current build architecture armel does not appear in package's list (alpha amd64 i386 powerpc ppc64) | 20:55 |
| vasily_pupkin | 20:55 | |
| zerojayPC | Your package isn't made for armel. | 20:56 |
| vasily_pupkin | smells like shit | 20:56 |
| vasily_pupkin | to do or not to do.. | 20:56 |
| vasily_pupkin | (% | 20:56 |
| javispedro | I remember a bug with prelink on arm resulting in all binaries corrupted, so take care. | 20:57 |
| vasily_pupkin | oh. | 20:57 |
| javispedro | (hopefully it was fixed long ago) | 20:57 |
| vasily_pupkin | now i think this is bad idea :) | 20:57 |
| javispedro | well vasily_pupkin, trying is fun, and you can let us know how it went :) | 20:58 |
| vasily_pupkin | :D | 20:58 |
| vasily_pupkin | .oO(every sunday i kill it) | 20:58 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you want sound too? | 20:59 |
| vasily_pupkin | javispedro: you right. this is fun (% | 21:00 |
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| zerojayPC | @PeterMaemo Message from the Head of Maemo Devices: www.jaaksi.blogspot.com | 21:06 |
| zerojayPC | Oh.. nevermind. | 21:06 |
| zerojayPC | Just Peter catching up. | 21:07 |
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| vasily_pupkin | hey | 21:09 |
| vasily_pupkin | make ls -l /lib/ld* plz | 21:09 |
| javispedro | vasily_pupkin, /lib/ld-2.5.so /lib/ld-linux.so.3 | 21:10 |
| vasily_pupkin | hm | 21:11 |
| vasily_pupkin | interesting | 21:11 |
| javispedro | (n810 btw) | 21:11 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: might be useful | 21:11 |
| vasily_pupkin | what means "Using /lib/ld-linux.so.3, not /lib/ld-linux.so.2" | 21:11 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, will commit today | 21:11 |
| javispedro | sounds like a good thing. | 21:11 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: when updating n8x0-env, keep in mind 2.6.30-rc8 did not need anything extra for sound | 21:13 |
| vasily_pupkin | hm | 21:15 |
| vasily_pupkin | seems like ld-linux.so.2 hardcoded | 21:15 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, so just don't enable approppriate useflag | 21:16 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: so just don't make the USE flag be something generic like 'alsa' | 21:16 |
| slonopotamus | i wanted to :) | 21:17 |
| Luke-Jr | -.- | 21:17 |
| slonopotamus | 'sound' is ok? | 21:17 |
| Luke-Jr | make a 'diablo-linux' package with IUSE='alsa' perhaps doing RDEPEND | 21:17 |
| Luke-Jr | or PDEPEND | 21:17 |
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| Luke-Jr | meh | 21:18 |
| Luke-Jr | that requires reinventing the kernel eclass really | 21:18 |
| slonopotamus | you're free to hack things once i push :) | 21:18 |
| slonopotamus | eta: 15 mins | 21:18 |
| vladovg | hi | 21:18 |
| Luke-Jr | how about IUSE="alsa diablo" | 21:18 |
| Luke-Jr | or perhaps s/diablo/diablo-linux/ to avoid any potential ambiguous... | 21:19 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you may think how gstreamer-dsp package fits in this approach while i'm building alsa-plugins and rebooting to check it works :) | 21:19 |
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| Luke-Jr | I want nothing to do with gstreamer | 21:21 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, phonon uses it as backend | 21:22 |
| Luke-Jr | my phonon uses xine | 21:22 |
| Luke-Jr | so there | 21:22 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: remember, I went to extra work to make gps5300driver work w/o glib | 21:23 |
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| RST38h | "Cell phone contracts are so hard to get out of that many have lines they no longer use but still pay for." <-- is it really true for uk? | 21:32 |
| kirma | took a while to even parse that sentence | 21:33 |
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| javispedro | lol timeless, now I get to see what you meant with the bluemaemo icon. base64 coded is nearly 500 lines long. | 21:40 |
| javispedro | (vs the usual 60) | 21:40 |
| lcuk2 | i saw a note somewhere about testing for a bug relating to that length | 21:40 |
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| javispedro | it's 128x128 | 21:42 |
| javispedro | :P | 21:42 |
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| RST38h | javis: were testing if appmanager can digest it? =) | 21:42 |
| javispedro | i'd need to make a x86 package, too lazy for it ;) | 21:43 |
| * javispedro evily rewrits bluemaemo's control file | 21:43 | |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: it'd probably fail with some versions of the app manager then ;) : http://gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager/mainline/blobs/master/utils/check-icon-overflow | 21:44 |
| javispedro | is that part of Maemian? | 21:44 |
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| qwerty12_N810 | Part of h-a-m | 21:44 |
| javispedro | ah, for testing | 21:45 |
| javispedro | the icon is 24KiB | 21:45 |
| javispedro | so yeah, I guess it crash hard ;P | 21:45 |
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| yerga | What are the user/* sections in Fremantle? | 21:47 |
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| javispedro | yerga, I have this opened right now: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Packaging_Policy_proposed_changes | 21:48 |
| zerojayPC | Peter@Maemo: "Haven't read most of this thread yet (kind of busy during launch) but OVI Maps works without exta payment. Maps and route planning plus info on places is free of charge." | 21:48 |
| lardman | RST38h: no it's not really true | 21:48 |
| yerga | javispedro, thanks | 21:48 |
| lardman | RST38h: though as some contracts are now 2 years, I could see it might be if someone lost their phone & couldn't afford to replace it outright | 21:48 |
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| kirma | referring to earlier blog post: what on earth these android, iphone and especially ipod touch users are doing in their lives, or what kind of apps they're "using" if they download 10 or even 20 apps *per month*? | 21:54 |
| kirma | I understand that when "settling in" on a platform, but otherwise... | 21:54 |
| johnsq | kirma: games which last only 1 hour | 21:54 |
| javispedro | seen a typical iphone? 4 pages of apps. | 21:55 |
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| javispedro | typical user then only uses one of them, usually on the third page. | 21:55 |
| javispedro | (it's something I noticed ;P) | 21:55 |
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| zerojayPC | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=318410#post318410 | 21:59 |
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| * javispedro grabs popcorn. | 22:00 | |
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| kirma | yeah, somehow the concept of what's the purpose of an application seems to be completely different for iphone users, even if I don't know any of them very personally | 22:01 |
| kirma | they're like snacks to them. apparently because most applications are useless short-term entertainment, or at least very cheap. | 22:01 |
| kirma | I hope that attitude disappears some day ;) | 22:02 |
| javispedro | apple likes it. | 22:02 |
| javispedro | you said it well, apps are now like snacks | 22:02 |
| javispedro | number > quality. | 22:02 |
| * lcuk2 smiles | 22:02 | |
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| zerojayPC | It's official, no MMS support on N900 at the moment. | 22:04 |
| ShadowJK | zerojayPC, link? | 22:04 |
| javispedro | btw, i've now created a package with the bluemaemo 128x128 icon: h-a-m rescales it. | 22:04 |
| kirma | I don't quite know what to say to that | 22:04 |
| zerojayPC | Peter's reasoning makes sense... pretty much "why send it to someone when you have flickr?" | 22:04 |
| javispedro | qwerty12_N810, so no crash in beta2 ;) | 22:04 |
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| zerojayPC | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318414&postcount=419 | 22:04 |
| kirma | I could call it both surprising and sort of predicted | 22:04 |
| kirma | from different perspectives | 22:04 |
| qwerty12_N810 | javispedro: glad to hear it. it'd be fun if a powerhouse could be taken down simply with an oversized icon ;) | 22:05 |
| kirma | receiving MMSes is probably possible with browser-equipped phone anyway on most operators... but sending, hm | 22:05 |
| zerojayPC | people still use MMS? | 22:06 |
| kirma | not that I could remember a single occassion when I would have needed that feature... sending, I mean. even if I have a photo to send to parents or aunt (soon pensioner-age), I can just use email... | 22:07 |
| Myrtti | zerojayPC: sure - there's lots of people that don't have data subscription in their phones and as such can't send pictures etc as email or other methods that require it | 22:07 |
| kirma | but SMSes I certainly use. those work though apparently, based on ads... | 22:07 |
| Luke-Jr | wtf is MMS | 22:07 |
| kirma | N900 without sensible data plan is pretty moronic lifestyle | 22:08 |
| lcuk2 | some new fangled technology that apparantly lets you send pictures to other people | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: :) | 22:08 |
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| kirma | luke-jr: is that sarcasm? :] | 22:08 |
| zerojayPC | kirma: Agreed. | 22:08 |
| Myrtti | kirma: even on sensible data plan *RECEIVING* MMS would be nice | 22:08 |
| Luke-Jr | kirma: no? | 22:08 |
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| kirma | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service | 22:09 |
| RST38h | None of you really wanna know what MMS is technically... | 22:09 |
| lcuk2 | what R&D is needed to implement MMS by the way? | 22:09 |
| lcuk2 | and surely, hasnt this already been done | 22:09 |
| RST38h | SMS too for that matter, but MMS is way way more evil | 22:09 |
| lcuk2 | somewhere | 22:09 |
| javispedro | timeless_mbp, in my h-a-m setup it is rescaled to a "sane" 50x50 (or something around that, my pixel ruler sucks) | 22:09 |
| RST38h | lcuk2: Not much needed | 22:09 |
| lcuk2 | RST38h, porting | 22:09 |
| lcuk2 | not r&d then | 22:10 |
| javispedro | hope you were not looking into an unsane h-a-m not rescaling it and showing bare 128x128 icon ;) | 22:10 |
| Luke-Jr | I would like a 24 hour webcam disguised as a working pen, that transmits a continuous stream over GSM with a buffer in case it's out of range for 30 mins | 22:10 |
| kirma | I believe it's pretty widely "used", or at least supported in Europe. just that it tends to be more expensive than text messages, and thus more or less avoided by most people | 22:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk2: You need to read a couple of huge obscure standard definitions not available anywhere, unless you know exactly what to ask for | 22:10 |
| lcuk2 | im sure the largest phone company in the world will have those obscure definitions somewhere | 22:10 |
| Myrtti | kirma: it's exactly as expensive in finland as a normal sms, IIRC | 22:10 |
| Luke-Jr | 24 hour battery, that is :þ | 22:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk2: Then you need to make yourself implement all the crap described in these manuals, all those bit fields, java-like encodings, etc etc | 22:11 |
| lcuk2 | they have been done | 22:11 |
| lcuk2 | on numerous platforms | 22:11 |
| lcuk2 | and different devices | 22:11 |
| kirma | if I remember right, MMS reception is basically special SMS message + GPRS connection to the operator... and sending is something vaguely similar I bet | 22:11 |
| javispedro | yeah, I'm sure nokia can grab the code and reuse. | 22:11 |
| lcuk2 | other nokia phones do MMS VERY well | 22:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk2: Then you need ty to make sure your stuff works with the infrastructure, preferably with multiple providers | 22:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk2: Because different providers use different MMS gates that behave a bit differently | 22:11 |
| lcuk2 | if this modem acts any differently to the other modems then there is something wrong with the modem driver itself | 22:12 |
| lcuk2 | which i doubt is maemopecific | 22:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk2: All of this so that some idiot can send a bad image of his penis to whoever he likes at absolutely exhorbitant prices | 22:12 |
| lcuk2 | hell yes | 22:12 |
| lcuk2 | punters love it | 22:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: it is not in the modem | 22:12 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: the modem is the easiest part of it | 22:12 |
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| lcuk2 | then we need a solution | 22:13 |
| kirma | oh yes. used to write SMS gateway software years and years ago, but left that job before MMS really caught on | 22:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: the horrors start at the higher levels, basically at the level of http | 22:13 |
| lcuk2 | its hard to use flickr to send a pic to someone | 22:13 |
| lcuk2 | and most of the time you send to a single person and dont want the world seeing it | 22:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I think we need to forget the whole MMS thing for now | 22:13 |
| RST38h | I seriously doubt many people here or on maemo.org use MMSes often | 22:14 |
| lcuk2 | i hope i get liqbase.net up soon then :) | 22:14 |
| javispedro | with email being so simple (at least at the layers I know), I agree: drop MMS. | 22:14 |
| RST38h | Overpriced, unreliable crap | 22:14 |
| Myrtti | again, it's something that would be nice to be able to atleast receive | 22:14 |
| Myrtti | if not send | 22:14 |
| RST38h | IF punters scream for it, Nokia will add MMSes, I am sure about it | 22:14 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: This might be possible to achieve via some MMS->email gate | 22:15 |
| kirma | 3GPP folks are capable of creating highly brain-damaging standards, at least if you, as the reader, are not born as telecom engineer | 22:15 |
| lcuk2 | i am too RST38h | 22:15 |
| kirma | you know, POTS networks, SS7, etc | 22:15 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: sure, Finnish operators use that as well - or claim to use - and I've never ever managed to see anything sent to it | 22:15 |
| RST38h | kirma: They are Java people who are being paid to create standards, not to implement or use them | 22:15 |
| lcuk2 | kirma, i am sure there are many well trained engineers within nokia | 22:15 |
| kirma | at least I mean the standards before web really got into phones | 22:16 |
| javispedro | Java people? :D | 22:16 |
| lcuk2 | do not mock them | 22:16 |
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| RST38h | kirma: It is a sure recipe for disaster, cured only by exterminating the whole commitee | 22:16 |
| lcuk2 | they control the airwaves lol | 22:16 |
| woglinde | hi | 22:16 |
| javispedro | hi wog | 22:16 |
| kirma | java people create the network standards? that explains a lot :D | 22:16 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Yes, you can clearly see it when reading MMS standard | 22:16 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: all the values are encoded in the java format, XML everywhere, etc | 22:17 |
| lcuk2 | qwerty12_N810, that note was the one i read! | 22:17 |
| javispedro | "java format"? | 22:17 |
| lcuk2 | you are a super human | 22:17 |
| RST38h | javispedro: A moment, let me locate the description | 22:17 |
| qwerty12_N810 | lcuk2: Hmm? :) | 22:18 |
| lcuk2 | app manager icon length check bug thing | 22:18 |
| qwerty12_N810 | Ah | 22:18 |
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| kirma | I wonder if MMS payload transfer required some not-quite-so-IP kind of GPRS connection to accomplish its task | 22:21 |
| kirma | really can't remember any more, it's well over five years since last looked at it | 22:21 |
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| kirma | oh yes - MMS also requires at least some of the moronic WAP data format parsers to work. | 22:22 |
| slonopotamus | ~curse autotools | 22:22 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, autotools ! | 22:22 |
| woglinde | *g* | 22:23 |
| woglinde | ~curse all other buildsystems too | 22:23 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, all other buildsystems too ! | 22:23 |
| RST38h | javis: Shit, I have trouble locating the binary format description | 22:24 |
| RST38h | javis: but it goes like this: | 22:24 |
| RST38h | javis: 1 byte for data type, 1-2 bytes for length, then value | 22:24 |
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| RST38h | javis: MMS uses exactly the same format to encode header field values | 22:24 |
| javispedro | ah, java bytecode-like | 22:24 |
| slonopotamus | woglinde, cmake is ok | 22:24 |
| RST38h | javis: correct | 22:25 |
| javispedro | constant pool, | 22:25 |
| javispedro | I should've said. | 22:25 |
| RST38h | javis: And for structure it uses XML converted into binary, where each tag is translated into an integer | 22:25 |
| javispedro | well RST38h, it's not usual for a java coder to know how the VM works ;) | 22:25 |
| RST38h | i.e. there is a dictionary with those somewhere | 22:25 |
| RST38h | javis: Yes, I found it mighty difficult to find this format description with google. Real weird. | 22:25 |
| kirma | talking about telecom-inspired protocols, I considered writing SMIL server some years ago. it didn't take much experimentation to figure to give up... | 22:26 |
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| kirma | err, not smil. what it was again? | 22:26 |
| RST38h | Anyways, MMS isn't something nice to implement and it has serious capability to drive you mad | 22:26 |
| RST38h | kirma: SMIL | 22:26 |
| kirma | chat protocol specified by 3GPP or such | 22:26 |
| RST38h | kirma: SMIL with a WML-like presentation language for MMS | 22:27 |
| RST38h | kirma: I did not know they had chat protocol | 22:27 |
| kirma | certainly there is/was... but what was the name? :) | 22:28 |
| RST38h | kirma: I know that they have got SMS (all those weird bitfields within bitfields), MMS (more of the same crap + java + kinda xml), HDML (last decent standard they had), WML (terrible XML based crap made up by a committee and never fully supported by anyone) | 22:28 |
| RST38h | kirma: And SMIL (kinda WML for MMS, never really seen it used by anyone ) | 22:29 |
| javispedro | i never knew what the real purpose of wml was. | 22:29 |
| javispedro | fortunately, nobody used it. | 22:29 |
| javispedro | (at least here) | 22:29 |
| javispedro | the first phone I bought with "browser" already was HTML-compatible. | 22:30 |
| kirma | OMA IMPS maybe. | 22:30 |
| kirma | I think I had a ericsson pre-production phone that supported SMIL, or something | 22:31 |
| kirma | but what I meant was probably IMPS... | 22:31 |
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| kirma | WML was ill-guided combination of content-compression *and* new vaguely HTMLish hypertext format that alone had made million compromises too many not to be practical anywhere | 22:32 |
| kirma | or was the compression outside it? anyway, it was related. | 22:33 |
| kirma | preceding "solutions" must have been horrible when Web with Ajax seems like a panacea :P | 22:33 |
| RST38h | HDML was ok | 22:34 |
| RST38h | It did its job of showing "web" on a 2-line text screen | 22:34 |
| RST38h | WML was HDML digested and shitted out by a bunch of XML gurus | 22:35 |
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| * RST38h thanks the Tentacled One for the demise of XML | 22:36 | |
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| JvA | The person I spoke to earlier today about status bar plugin issues: I discovered that when running with Swedish as system languages, the fields to select or deselect plugins did not show. However, now with the language set to English (UK), everything works as it should. | 22:36 |
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| jagguli | Hi, would it be dangerous to do an apt-get dist-upgrade on an n810 | 22:37 |
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| JvA | jagguli: Worst case, you can always install the original firmware, but then you would lose everything saved on system memory. | 22:37 |
| RST38h | jagguli: apt-get upgrade works as long as you tightly control the list of enabled repositories | 22:38 |
| zerojayPC | jvA: Sounds like a bug to me. I guess I'll file it. Think you can take a screenshot? | 22:38 |
| zerojayPC | er.. well, I could do it too, I guess. | 22:39 |
| RST38h | don't try it unless you are absolutely sure that you only have trusted repos with working packages on the list | 22:39 |
| JvA | zerojayPC: Try to reproduce the bug on your device first. I'll need to check if I can reproduce it on my other two N810-devices at work tommorow. | 22:39 |
| jagguli | JvA: im doing an apt-get upgrade now, the last time i did an dist-upgrade , it messed up the system | 22:39 |
| zerojayPC | yeah, I'm going to try it. | 22:39 |
| zerojayPC | Swedish = Sverige? | 22:40 |
| JvA | Yes | 22:40 |
| zerojayPC | Here goes nothing. | 22:40 |
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| zerojayPC | sondag. :) | 22:41 |
| JvA | zerojayPC: Yep :) | 22:41 |
| Andy80 | hi all | 22:41 |
| zerojayPC | Holy fuck. | 22:42 |
| JvA | You see the problem? | 22:42 |
| zerojayPC | Small screens = horrible for other languages. lol | 22:42 |
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| zerojayPC | no, I don't but also, the entire dialog box is much bigger. | 22:42 |
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| zerojayPC | I'll take a screenie and file a bug and see if it happens in other languages. | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | "some operators argue that their customers would have wanted them to manage the experience and, on such a constrained device, avoid giving access to too many services." | 22:43 |
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| zerojayPC | Italiano! | 22:45 |
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| zerojayPC | It's fine in Italian. | 22:47 |
| zerojayPC | But again, the dialog box is normal size in Italian. | 22:47 |
| JvA | hmm, do Italian use åäö? | 22:47 |
| kirma | not | 22:47 |
| JvA | I'm thinking perhaps the Swedish characters mess it up? | 22:47 |
| JvA | UTF-8 problem? | 22:47 |
| zerojayPC | Maybe. | 22:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: the kernel we have doesn't support proper MMS center handling | 22:48 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, johnsq, http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0/sound | 22:50 |
| zerojayPC | German appears to have no problems despite the fact that the dialog box is slightly larger... which makes sense since German takes so much more space than English. | 22:51 |
| zerojayPC | In honor of wazd, I'm trying Russian. | 22:52 |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: what is it with you using init scripts to load firmware and crap? | 22:53 |
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| zerojayPC | Heh.. this is how picky I am, I guess. I noticed that if an N has the ~ over it, it's slightly cut off on the left side. | 22:55 |
| * RST38h wonders why *kernel* should have anything to do with MMS | 22:55 | |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i just mimiced what mer does. feel free to improve. you expected me to write opensource dsp firmware? :) | 22:55 |
| woglinde | rst maybee qt-kernel | 22:55 |
| RST38h | wazd | 22:55 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: lrn2udev | 22:55 |
| RST38h | woglinde: same question | 22:56 |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, it starts some magic demon dsp_dld which performs dark magic on stuff from /lib/dsp | 22:57 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: I thought we had stlc4550? | 22:57 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, driver or what? | 22:58 |
| Luke-Jr | chip | 22:58 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, that's wifi, yep | 22:59 |
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| slonopotamus | woops | 23:00 |
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| zerojayPC | JvA: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5028 - Look right to you? Check the screenshot as well. | 23:00 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, and sound is ti c55x | 23:01 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: why does n8x0-env dep 4560 driver? | 23:01 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you did that | 23:02 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, not driver, but firmware | 23:02 |
| * Luke-Jr fixes | 23:02 | |
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| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, w/e. test sound :) | 23:03 |
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| slonopotamus | it took me just one day | 23:03 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: when start working, it is quick done, the problem is starting :) | 23:04 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: what are the maemo alsa plugins about? | 23:07 |
| JvA | zerojayPC: Yep. Exactly :) | 23:07 |
| * lcuk2 ponders a new package | 23:08 | |
| JvA | Someone who knows how to read the userspace log? | 23:08 |
| JvA | I want to see if my messages/errors were logged. | 23:08 |
| zerojayPC | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5029 - I'd like to subtitle this one "The straw that breaks andre__'s back" ;) | 23:09 |
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| andre__ | we'll see ;-) | 23:10 |
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| zerojayPC | I once had a programmer throw a stapler at me because I saw ONE pixel was incorrect. | 23:14 |
| AStorm | zerojayPC: :) | 23:15 |
| lcuk2 | oh fuck | 23:15 |
| lcuk2 | you best not see my code then | 23:15 |
| zerojayPC | lol | 23:15 |
| AStorm | what a lovable person | 23:15 |
| mavhc | that's why we work via the internet | 23:15 |
| zerojayPC | When I was working QA on our games, I was as picky as possible. | 23:15 |
| AStorm | that's what QA is after all | 23:15 |
| lcuk2 | mavhc, +1 | 23:15 |
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| mavhc | whose fault is it if an error is missed when you have a QA guy? | 23:16 |
| zerojayPC | Everyone's. | 23:16 |
| AStorm | both programmers and the QA | 23:16 |
| zerojayPC | It happens from time to time... thankfully almost never anything too major though. | 23:16 |
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| mavhc | I found two errors post cd printing in my games, one popped up an error box if you got every question right, harmless enough, one missed out the last 2 digits of numbers in certain maths question explainations | 23:18 |
| lcuk2 | remind me next to come to you for banking software | 23:20 |
| lcuk2 | never ^ doh | 23:20 |
| mavhc | it was all due to the client wanting win3.1 support in 1999 | 23:20 |
| lcuk2 | cool | 23:22 |
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| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: does Nokia actually violate Linux's copyright with osso-dsp-modules? | 23:26 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: the n ~ has been a bug for ages, i complained in our internal tracker | 23:26 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 23:26 | |
| timeless_mbp | they refused to fix it | 23:27 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: basically the network settings you use for MMS can be very unrelated to the ones you use for everything else | 23:27 |
| timeless_mbp | they could overlap, they could be disjoint, etc. | 23:27 |
| timeless_mbp | they could have dns which has totally different values | 23:27 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't want your other apps to break when you try to use mms | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | to use/implement MMS safely you want to segregate it from the normal tcp stuff | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and this is possible using a *recently* added kernel feature | 23:28 |
| timeless_mbp | (this topic came up last week internally) | 23:28 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Still a problem in Fremantle? | 23:29 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: you should be able to find my corresponding bug for 5029 | 23:29 |
| johnsq | where is the add music button in canola2? | 23:29 |
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| andre__ | hmm. looks like this device has become a brick. shit. | 23:30 |
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| johnsq | in settings, wauw very user friendly. | 23:31 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, no idea about maemo alsa plugins. they're in upstream, just gentoo didn't have approppriate useflag. | 23:31 |
| Toba | andre__: whatd you do | 23:31 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: 38597 | 23:31 |
| andre__ | Toba, good question. at least booting and flashing don't work. grumble | 23:32 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, osso-dsp-modules are not linked with anything | 23:32 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, thanks. hmm | 23:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: i'll have to try to get my devices to cooperate long enough | 23:33 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, canola in gentoo? :P | 23:33 |
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| johnsq | slonopotamus: no, testing under maemo, I don't like it. not very user friendly to use. | 23:34 |
| slonopotamus | it's too foreign to everything else | 23:34 |
| slonopotamus | ui, i mean | 23:35 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: so, i think we may ship w/ more fonts than we used to | 23:35 |
| johnsq | I didn't found playing an album, only added to playlist. | 23:35 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Can't say that's not a surprise. | 23:35 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, test sound in gentoo! :) | 23:36 |
| zerojayPC | er. | 23:36 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Can't say that's a surprise, I mean. | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | i believe it's still broken | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | the bug was wontfix in 770 times | 23:37 |
| andre__ | grmpf. bitchy hardware. seems to be alive again now, after trying 10 times. | 23:37 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: I transfered mp3 on the internal card. | 23:37 |
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| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Does no one check the previous bugs before starting a new release or what? | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | well um | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | the reason was basically something like | 23:38 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, mp3... have smth to play it? | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | "third party nokia crappy font" "we don't want to hack freetype" | 23:38 |
| mavhc | canola takes too much ram, doesn't work on half my rss feeds, and won't even load anymore, I use videocenter and media player now | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | those explanations didn't change from 770 through maemo5 | 23:38 |
| timeless_mbp | sometimes people clone bugs | 23:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | which is just as annoying as when they don't | 23:39 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: madplay should work, will see it | 23:39 |
| zerojayPC | Hack freetype? It looks like it's just an error in the font itself though. | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | in this case, i think the key point is "crappy nokia font" | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: so | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | someone took Nokia Sans and introduced it to MS Word | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and the result was ok | 23:40 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i don't like nokia-osso-linux useflag on alsa-plugins. i want to push it upstream (gentoo), doubt they'll accept such name | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | although i'm not sure the someone tested sufficiently small font sizes | 23:40 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: then think of a better name | 23:40 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: this has nothing to do with Maemo | 23:40 |
| Luke-Jr | and AFAIK, it's specific to Nokia OSSO's Linux | 23:40 |
| * timeless_mbp thinks he tested 10..32 instead of 8 | 23:41 | |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, module is named 'maemo' in alsa-plugins | 23:41 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: I'm aware. It still is wrong :þ | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: my favorite comment there is #9 | 23:41 |
| timeless_mbp | remind me to flog the idiot from comment 10 | 23:41 |
| Luke-Jr | slonopotamus: 99% sure installing asound.state is bad | 23:41 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, your own one? :-P | 23:42 |
| timeless_mbp | well yes | 23:42 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, hmm, maybe | 23:42 |
| *** elninja_ has joined #maemo | 23:42 | |
| timeless_mbp | is there something wrong w/ liking one's own comments? | 23:42 |
| andre__ | awesome response to your comment. i know that.... | 23:42 |
| andre__ | nope, not at all. | 23:42 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: fwiw, i'm sorry i didn't file that bug publicly at some point | 23:43 |
| lcuk2 | andre__, | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | i filed it internally august 2006 | 23:43 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: No need to apologize to me... I'm just glad someone knows it exists internally. | 23:43 |
| lcuk2 | how does bugtracker work with projects | 23:43 |
| lcuk2 | is it only things in garage | 23:43 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, you may remove it after checking that things continue to work :) btw, you renamed useflags. fixed wiki? | 23:43 |
| lcuk2 | or things in the repos | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | well "knows" is an odd word | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | it was wontfixed once formally that i know of for n800 | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | it wasn't cloned to other products | 23:44 |
| andre__ | lcuk2, not necessarily garage only. anything specific in mind? | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | and it's basically "we bought/selected a lame font and can't fix it" | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | there are rumors that for harmattan we might get a set of non lame fonts | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not holding my breath | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly getting non lame fonts doesn't imply dropping lame fonts | 23:44 |
| johnsq | dejavu would be a good choice | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | no comment | 23:45 |
| lcuk2 | libliqbase,liqcalendar,liqflow,onedotzero,liqtorch,liqgraffitiwall,liqsketchedit,liqrecentphotos,liqaccelview,liqaccelview_alternative,liqbook,liqdesktopmanager | 23:45 |
| lcuk2 | to name but a few | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: re https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1345 | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | can you scroll down? | 23:45 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i'd like to make a list of things we still want to have and prioritize it | 23:45 |
| * timeless_mbp wants to see the longest item | 23:45 | |
| lcuk2 | just on the working set that are gonna be released and will most likely all need bugs assigning to them | 23:45 |
| lcuk2 | i could bulk some up into semi combined projects | 23:46 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, like, standard api for battery level so kde/gnome applets are aware of it | 23:46 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: Give me a minute to get back into Swedish. | 23:46 |
| lcuk2 | but the aim was to allow people complete ala cart installation of the components they desire | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | zerojayPC: sure | 23:47 |
| * timeless_mbp goes back to translating from Engrish | 23:47 | |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i approve removing of asound.state :) | 23:47 |
| lcuk2 | andre__, its gonna be hard to be manually creating bug entries for each thing that comes out | 23:47 |
| andre__ | lcuk2, heh, well, sure :) | 23:48 |
| lcuk2 | but working on them piece by piece is better cos it allows interested parties to help on the bits they are good at | 23:48 |
| * lcuk2 ponders more | 23:48 | |
| zerojayPC | What are you guys on about? | 23:48 |
| lcuk2 | liqbase standalone projects | 23:49 |
| zerojayPC | Ah, ok. | 23:49 |
| lcuk2 | well, some of em anyway | 23:49 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: It's the fucking "Software updates" one. | 23:49 |
| slonopotamus | Luke-Jr, i think n8x0-env no longer needs cx3110x useflag. it's just wifi+nokia-osso-linux | 23:49 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: I'll add the screenshot in a sec. | 23:49 |
| zerojayPC | It's appaling that they thought that would be a good string for that. | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 23:50 |
| timeless_mbp | i can't say i'm shocked | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't give the localizers guidance on string width | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | and our testers aren't very clever about breaking things | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | but when they do find things, they're incredibly stubborn | 23:51 |
| zerojayPC | Too bad. I like breaking things. | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | note that i'm not always on localizer's sides | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | they filed a bug complaining about a string being truncated in the browser | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i said it was a bug in the ui which refused to let the button grow | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | the ui designer insisted that we not grow the button | 23:52 |
| zerojayPC | Screenshot added. | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i insist that if the localization testers can't actually translate the dialog they're reading properly | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't trust them to test a changed translation | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | and given that the idiotic ui designers screwed up the Alarm Clock Tone dialog | 23:53 |
| zerojayPC | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1347 - Yeah, I think it's too long. ;) | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | (ostensibly at my behest) | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | nice! | 23:53 |
| zerojayPC | JvA: Take a look. ;) | 23:54 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: wiki wrong euse -E maemo is also needed. | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | (and testers didn't complain about that verb) | 23:54 |
| zerojayPC | timeless_mbp: All the other ones are short enough. | 23:54 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, it'll tell you. | 23:55 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, beware, luke has just modified ebuilds a bit | 23:55 |
| *** javispedro has joined #maemo | 23:55 | |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: USE='nokia-osso-linux alsa maemo' should it be. | 23:56 |
| slonopotamus | wait | 23:56 |
| johnsq | slonopotamus: ok. I look if i have alreay build madplay | 23:57 |
| slonopotamus | johnsq, pull. correct useflags are 'alsa nokia-osso-linux', no maemo | 23:59 |
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