IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-05-03

AStorm	the unit is m, with SI prefix it's km	00:00
timeless_mbp	thanks, note that i added options to get an answer about the lack of a space before the unit	00:00
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* timeless_mbp doesn't care about spelling here		00:00
AStorm	or in other words, 3.2808399 ft	00:01
AStorm	* 1000	00:01
timeless_mbp	heh	00:01
timeless_mbp	iow, localizer = braindead	00:01
AStorm	haha, now, convert that to miles for fun and profit	00:01
AStorm	0.621371192 miles, US I think.	00:01
AStorm	that's 1 km	00:02
AStorm	yes, imperial units are braindead	00:02
AStorm	there's one SI unit I like - it's a barn.	00:02
timeless_mbp	heh	00:02
timeless_mbp	well, this was clearly a braindead localiser (i.e. someone failing to impersonate British)	00:03
timeless_mbp	since the localiser failed to include the obligatory space in a metric unit :)	00:03
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* lcuk wouldnt put one either lol		00:04
timeless_mbp	yeah, that's a different story	00:04
timeless_mbp	i'd personally expect x m instead	00:04
timeless_mbp	but that's a coder/ui-spec bug	00:05
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AStorm	actually, barn is USAnian unit ;)	00:05
AStorm	I recommend everyone to measure in yottabarns	00:07
AStorm	heck, I'll even make that an optional unit in my hwr	00:07
AStorm	(for an area, of course)	00:09
AStorm	hm, wrong, too large	00:10
AStorm	only need zettabarns	00:10
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AStorm	Stskeeps, hmm, found a "feature" in application manager	00:13
AStorm	it now doesn't want to go back to the category selector	00:14
AStorm	maybe there are now only 3 apps to show or sth	00:14
Stskeeps	yeah - there's a block somewhere	00:18
Stskeeps	it'll hopefully go away in the HAM update from fremantle	00:18
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AStorm	btw, who does adv. backlight? I'd like an option to only dim the screen w/o turning it off	00:30
Stskeeps	rm_you	00:30
AStorm	(on same timeout)	00:30
AStorm	rm_you, pingy	00:30
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Stskeeps	and the problem is actually in DSME :P	00:30
AStorm	aw shucks ;)	00:30
Stskeeps	we're going to work on putting it through HAL and powerlaunch magic	00:30
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AStorm	I know HAL, but not Powerlaunch... guess I'll have to learn	00:30
Stskeeps	powerlaunch is basically a event-reaction scripting language	00:31
Stskeeps	has a bit weird syntax but it makes sense	00:31
AStorm	ok, so you say, throw this away and redo it in something sane? later ;)	00:33
AStorm	we need better-optimized byte-compiled language	00:34
AStorm	no, not Perl.	00:34
Stskeeps	well, considering the fact it's a lot of tiny recipes, i've actually had trouble coming up with something saner than powerlaunch	00:34
Stskeeps	and that's scary	00:34
AStorm	tiny things like "on x do y" event system	00:35
Stskeeps	basically, but there's also mode changes in it	00:35
Stskeeps	so "push all events towards X module instead"	00:35
AStorm	so it's a stateful event-based system. duh	00:35
Stskeeps	and yes	00:35
AStorm	ouch, wait, then it's a broken split event system	00:35
AStorm	PITA	00:35
Stskeeps	well it makes sense though	00:36
Stskeeps	when you have clicked power button, action/response is different	00:36
lcuk	you can take many broken pieces and put them together into something that works	00:36
AStorm	sometimes, somewhat :)	00:36
AStorm	assuming the API is good	00:36
AStorm	I recommend bash	00:36
AStorm	do it "the POSIX way"	00:36
lcuk	but the cost/benefit/time of redoing everything the sticky tape solution manages is what makes things tough	00:36
Stskeeps	except bash is a memory and cpu hungry bastard :P	00:36
Stskeeps	also	00:37
AStorm	memory, maybe, cpu, not really	00:37
Stskeeps	powerlaunch comes with glade, dbus, etc support	00:37
Stskeeps	and is fairly lightweight	00:37
AStorm	dbus-monitor? glade means start another app	00:37
AStorm	:)	00:37
Stskeeps	eh, no, it does it within powerlaunch	00:37
Stskeeps	anyway	00:37
Stskeeps	take a look at it, i'm glad to hear proposals for better stuff :)	00:37
AStorm	which adds to my idea of a broken Piece of Software	00:38
Stskeeps	i wanted to replace it too initially	00:38
Stskeeps	also keep in mind launcing another app is not always the answer on a n8x0 if it's to feel slightly interactive :P	00:38
AStorm	heck, you could use advanced variant of Xdialog and still have better UI	00:38
AStorm	:P	00:38
Stskeeps	sure - powerlaunch ui is just how it is to look like the typical power button ui. but the point of PL isn't the power button ui, it's the behaviour of tablet stuff :)	00:39
Stskeeps	it's a generic event-reaction daemon, which is really useful to have :P	00:39
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Stskeeps	it can implement a lot of the behaviours of a tablet, without having to resort to several daemon processes	00:40
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AStorm	it's so generic, you can replace it with bash™	00:40
johnx	and without having to run shell scripts on events	00:41
AStorm	s/bash/insert any scripted language here/	00:41
infobot	AStorm meant: it's so generic, you can replace it with insert any scripted language here™	00:41
AStorm	infobot, failure.	00:41
infobot	somebody said failure was always an option, or http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5784521764&pageNo=1&sid=1#15	00:41
AStorm	for this bot, it is.	00:41
Stskeeps	AStorm: yeah.. just don't resort to bash as the solution, because that's rather insane :P	00:41
johnx	we actually had that on the zaurus and it creates noticeable lag on screen rotation	00:41
AStorm	because you don't have a.... bash daemon	00:42
AStorm	yes, real bash uses named pipes.	00:42
AStorm	:)	00:42
AStorm	why pay to start it up every time	00:42
johnx	how about at least a dash daemon	00:42
johnx	keep in mind, some of these machines will have 64MB of RAM	00:43
AStorm	well, POSIX shell.	00:43
AStorm	or at least, 95% POSIX.	00:43
johnx	ok, that sounds better already :)	00:43
AStorm	not the broken cut busybox shell	00:43
Macer	blah	00:44
AStorm	next step is an Xdialog daemon	00:44
Macer	long day today. need to rest.	00:44
Stskeeps	AStorm: anyway.. my requirement for such a language is easily understandable and stable, as in, it doesn't crash on broken scripts. someone should be able to write a recipe for certain behaviour ("press headset button while tethered => mute music") etc	00:45
AStorm	Stskeeps, ah btw, is this vim in Mer actual vim 7 with some additions?	00:45
AStorm	Stskeeps, yeah, neither shell nor powerlaunch is	00:45
Stskeeps	AStorm: there's vim-tiny and vim i think but i think it's real vim.	00:45
AStorm	shell can at least be made	00:46
Stskeeps	included editors for devel handiness	00:46
AStorm	yes, you can start separated subshells w/o restarting bash	00:46
AStorm	not sure if POSIX sh can do that	00:46
AStorm	yeah, someone actually wrote a httpd in bash	00:47
AStorm	with security.	00:47
Stskeeps	anyway, i'd love a powerlaunch replacement, but having a larger number of processes (including dbus-monitor, etc) and other crap running in mem, instead of a single C process with simply GTK, dbus and such,..	00:47
Stskeeps	is a bit insane :)	00:48
luke-jr_	AStorm: pretty sure that's not possible ;)	00:48
Stskeeps	i'd love another language too, i think powerlaunch syntax is ugly :P	00:48
AStorm	which eats how much ram already? :>	00:48
AStorm	luke-jr_, it is	00:48
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AStorm	luke-jr_, ever heard about /dev/tcp?	00:49
Stskeeps	i'd love to tell you but i don't have a mer n8x0 open	00:49
luke-jr_	AStorm: yeah, but how do you listen?	00:49
AStorm	I do.	00:49
Stskeeps	AStorm: and with maemo-launcher it's a hell lot less memory	00:49
AStorm	luke-jr_, same :)	00:49
AStorm	you cat a port	00:49
Stskeeps	AStorm: then give me a hint on the memory size of bash vs powerlaunch :P	00:49
AStorm	but I'd rather have inetd running than this	00:50
luke-jr_	AStorm: eh?	00:50
luke-jr_	AStorm: oh, leave out the IP part?	00:50
AStorm	hmm, nah, you need bash 4 for this	00:50
AStorm	newness	00:50
AStorm	:P	00:50
luke-jr_	oh	00:50
luke-jr_	AStorm: what is the path used?	00:50
luke-jr_	how can it differentiate between connect and listen?	00:51
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* Stskeeps boots up his mer.		00:52
AStorm	luke-jr_, because of using a pure . for listen	00:52
luke-jr_	a what?	00:52
AStorm	/dev/tcp/./port	00:52
AStorm	that listens on all interfaces	00:52
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luke-jr_	i c	00:52
luke-jr_	what if I want to bind a specific IP? ;)	00:52
AStorm	not sure how.	00:52
AStorm	still, there's netcat	00:52
AStorm	:)	00:53
luke-jr_	netcat isn't bash	00:53
AStorm	yeah, but close enough	00:53
* johnx has difficulty that this will take up less memory than powerlaunch (but would love to be proven wrong)		00:53
johnx	s/ty th/ty believing th/	00:53
AStorm	Stskeeps, hey, I installed the apps and they didn't show up in the menu	00:53
johnx	AStorm, which apps?	00:54
AStorm	ah, not just Organize is broken	00:54
AStorm	also the install part of selecting the place	00:54
AStorm	all got dumped into Extras despite other choices	00:54
Stskeeps	okay, so 1.4% of one bash instance and 5.0% of powerlaunch	00:55
Stskeeps	powerlaunch needs maemo-launcher though.	00:55
Stskeeps	aanyway. i'm off to bed	00:56
AStorm	hehe	00:57
Stskeeps	considering how much crap powerlaunch keeps track of however..	00:57
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* GeneralAntilles comes home, looks at itT and gets depressed.		01:07
GeneralAntilles	Wow, those wiki places screenshots look a lot like Maemo 5, don't they?	01:09
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timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: except for being a bad photoshop job (see scrollback)	01:10
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, ah.	01:11
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, how do I clone MXR by the way?	01:11
timeless_mbp	hg clone mxr.maemo.org; hg clone timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test;	01:11
timeless_mbp	iirc	01:11
timeless_mbp	the former is just branding	01:11
* xnt now F*cking Hates PulseAudio...		01:11
timeless_mbp	the latter is the code	01:11
timeless_mbp	xnt: this isn't #twitter	01:12
GeneralAntilles	abort: repository mxr.maemo.org not found! abort: repository timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test not found!	01:12
timeless_mbp	hrm	01:12
timeless_mbp	did you include http: :)	01:12
xnt	sorry, just wanted to vent my anger somewhere :P	01:12
timeless_mbp	GeneralAntilles: sorry, it's 1am and i haven't had dinner/lunch	01:13
timeless_mbp	i think if you add http:// it should work :)	01:13
xnt	WHAT? that was shopped?	01:13
GeneralAntilles	abort: 'http://mxr.maemo.org/' does not appear to be an hg repository! destination directory: mxr-test real URL is http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/ abort: 'http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/' does not appear to be an hg repository!	01:13
timeless_mbp	ok, or not :)	01:13
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, no worries, trying to find something more productive to do than watch the spirally, flaming descent of itT orchestrated by a bunch of angry trolls.	01:14
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timeless_mbp	talk.maemo.org doesn't resolve :(	01:14
xnt	timeless_mbp: your right :(	01:15
ShadowJK_	nxdomain here too :(	01:15
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xnt	timeless_mbp: wtf, they actually have a #twitter channel?	01:15
timeless_mbp	xnt: i so don't want to know :)	01:16
xnt	:P	01:16
GeneralAntilles	timeless_mbp, waiting on Nokia to change the DNS. Not sure if they have it's propagating or if they've just been ignoring us.	01:16
timeless_mbp	ok, try that instead	01:18
timeless_mbp	i probably don't have .htaccess in a .hg sharing mood	01:18
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johnx	GeneralAntilles, eh, pretty sure it will all blow over. Eventually even the people who don't like the new theme will get tired of listening to the trolls complaining :)	01:21
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, hopefully, but it's more . . . angry than these sorts of things have been in the past.	01:21
johnx	more people = more angry	01:21
GeneralAntilles	There's a lot more "we hate maemo.org" tied up in the whole thing.	01:21
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johnx	eh, I think they'll get used to it or go away eventually. or that's what I hope	01:22
GeneralAntilles	Several of them I'd rather see gone, true.	01:24
GeneralAntilles	In the mean time, though, I'm worried that they're doing a lot of damage.	01:24
johnx	I think a lot of people are just avoiding those threads. I know I am	01:24
GeneralAntilles	The whole Maemo School thing is rather depressing, too.	01:27
luke-jr_	honestly, I like the brighter colours, just the implementation annoys me	01:27
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I would like to see that go somewhere, but that's another thread I don't have the energy to follow.	01:28
GeneralAntilles	I would, too, but I'd rather NOT see time and energy spent creating a custom solution when there's a perfectly usable wiki that fulfills all of the technical requirements running right now.	01:28
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NCommander	hola	01:29
johnx	hi NCommander	01:29
GeneralAntilles	Also, I don't really love the whole "only one editor" idea.	01:29
NCommander	johnx, how goes it?	01:29
GeneralAntilles	It sort of goes against the spirit of maemo.org.	01:29
johnx	GeneralAntilles, it's funny that some people want a more community feel and some people want more hand holding	01:29
johnx	NCommander, well enough. kinda busy. and you?	01:30
NCommander	johnx, just ran into the OS2008 bug with external keyboard (yay LAG! :-/)	01:30
ShadowJK_	yay lag?	01:31
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johnx	did you disable all the predictive text stuff?	01:31
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NCommander	johnx, trying to find them all :-/	01:31
NCommander	johnx, I'm told though even with all of them off, there is still a resudial lag.	01:31
johnx	input -> dictionaries	01:31
* ShadowJK_ thought the initial lag was just due to bluetooth powersaving :-)		01:31
johnx	there is some even with a usb keyboard. it's mostly high CPU requirements I think	01:31
johnx	dunno why	01:31
NCommander	johnx, I used to use an internal keyboard on a Palm III, which had an 8Mhz processor	01:32
NCommander	If the N810 can't drive one, I would be greatly disturbed :-)	01:32
johnx	and most of the OS for the palm III was probably written in assembly :)	01:33
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NCommander	johnx, point taken	01:33
NCommander	johnx, no love	01:33
NCommander	The process keeps spiking everytime I type	01:33
johnx	gtk is in some ways a bit heavy for this, especially input into a browser suffers for me	01:33
* NCommander notes Qt is as bad or worse		01:33
johnx	try switching to performance mode?	01:33
NCommander	where's the switch?	01:34
* NCommander is fairly new to the N810 as a PDA		01:34
johnx	it's a command line thing :)	01:34
NCommander	ah, right at home there	01:34
lcuk	or a liqbase thing :P	01:34
GeneralAntilles	Or adv-power.	01:34
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AStorm	"106. I do not have weapon proficiency in cat." :D	01:35
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AStorm	oh, btw, what do I have to do to install adv. power on mer?	01:35
AStorm	which repo(s) to add?	01:35
NCommander	johnx, I'm fairly sure its a OS2008 issue :-/	01:37
johnx	well, adv power is up here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/advanced-power	01:37
ShadowJK_	the hw keyboard on N810 suffers no lag ime?	01:37
johnx	no ideas about bt keyboards other than that...	01:37
NCommander	ShadowJK_, I might not be able to type fast enough to trigger it	01:39
NCommander	I know hildon does some weird things with Gtk input	01:39
AStorm	ShadowJK_, yes, it doesn't	01:43
AStorm	tested that, I can type fairly fast on this	01:43
ShadowJK_	yes	01:45
ShadowJK_	I can type even faster on bluetooth keyboard because the keys are nicer	01:45
ShadowJK_	But the first keystroke after a pause takes ages to register, I always assumed it was waking up from powersaving slumber..	01:46
* NCommander gets stutters of lag		01:50
NCommander	Its completely unusable for me :-/	01:50
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GeneralAntilles	Can we just deploy the Debian packages application to maemo.org?	02:00
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AndrewFBlack	I wish avatars on Talk were bigger I lose so much detail in my new one	02:33
AndrewFBlack	I took the time to recreate my entire n810 viewing maemo.org but at 50 pixels square its hard to see	02:33
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, feel free to open a Newstyle enhancement request.	02:33
AndrewFBlack	I mean its ok everyone elses looks ok I just put to much detail into my drawning I even drew the keys out.	02:34
AndrewFBlack	I used real the test from maemo.orgs front page also lol	02:35
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rm_you	AStorm: pongy?	03:58
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* AndrewFBlack is getting a headache from all the fightin on Talk		04:31
GeneralAntilles	AndrewFBlack, I'm just getting depressed. ;)	04:31
AndrewFBlack	It wouldn't be so bad it there wasn't so many threads ask/saying the same things I don't know how many times we have to tell them no we can't just put the old theme up it doesn't work with new version of vBulletin	04:33
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AndrewFBlack	have you noticed after I told people to stop complaining on my minimalist theme post no one has posted anything lol	04:38
doc\|work	they're being minimalist	04:43
fireun	heh	04:46
fireun	damn nihilists	04:46
fireun	totally different than the minimalists, of course	04:47
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xnt	~nuke b-man's MMC	05:38
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at b-man's MMC ... B☢☢M!		05:38
xnt	:P	05:38
b-man	lol	05:39
xnt	lol	05:39
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b-man	~nuke xnt's HDD	05:41
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's HDD ... B☢☢M!		05:41
b-man	lol	05:41
* xnt is on an ssd		05:41
xnt	~nuke b-man's cpu	05:42
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at b-man's cpu ... B☢☢M!		05:42
b-man	~nuke xnt's SSD	05:42
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's SSD ... B☢☢M!		05:42
b-man	XD	05:42
b-man	~nuke xnt's computer	05:42
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's computer ... B☢☢M!		05:42
b-man	lolol	05:42
* xnt gets on his eee		05:42
*** xnt is now known as xnt_eee		05:43
b-man	~nuke xnt's eee	05:43
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at xnt's eee ... B☢☢M!		05:43
xnt_eee	~kill b-man	05:43
* infobot shoots a excited photon gun at b-man		05:43
b-man	hahaha	05:43
b-man	noooo!!!	05:43
xnt_eee	~attack b-man's body	05:43
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing b-man's body		05:43
* b-man can run when he's dead? 0o		05:43
xnt_eee	http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html	05:44
xnt_eee	:P	05:44
xnt_eee	~bored	05:44
infobot	La ... lalalala ... beer!	05:44
xnt_eee	what?	05:44
b-man	lol	05:44
xnt_eee	wtf, :P	05:44
xnt_eee	~wtf	05:44
xnt_eee	~help	05:44
xnt_eee	~ok	05:44
xnt_eee	~shutup	05:45
infobot	fine	05:45
xnt_eee	~die	05:45
infobot	yes master, I'll STFU	05:45
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		05:45
xnt_eee	:P	05:45
b-man	lol	05:45
xnt_eee	lol	05:45
b-man	~hump	05:45
* infobot humps the channel		05:45
xnt_eee	lol	05:45
xnt_eee	~hack	05:45
b-man	lol	05:45
b-man	~shag	05:45
xnt_eee	~fly	05:45
* infobot strips and bends over.. give it to me baby ;)		05:45
* infobot flies a F16, or http://photos.photosig.com/photos/85/49/1144985-bf2effb0adcf81c9.jpg		05:45
b-man	lol	05:45
xnt_eee	lol	05:45
b-man	~burn himself	05:46
xnt_eee	~brb	05:46
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		05:46
infobot	xnt_eee: brb, too. Be Right Back	05:46
xnt_eee	lol	05:46
xnt_eee	~lol	05:46
infobot	it has been said that lol is stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.	05:46
b-man	lol	05:46
* xnt_eee lol		05:46
b-man	lol	05:46
xnt_eee	rofl	05:46
xnt_eee	~nit	05:46
infobot	i heard nit is Nokia Internet Tablet	05:46
xnt_eee	~b-man	05:46
b-man	~rofl	05:46
infobot	it has been said that rofl is rolling on the floor laughing	05:46
xnt_eee	~xnt	05:47
b-man	~kill	05:47
b-man	~infobot	05:47
infobot	hmm... infobot is [infobot], or infobot, or likes abuse	05:47
b-man	lol	05:47
xnt_eee	~status	05:47
infobot	Since Thu Apr 30 17:30:04 2009, there have been 42 modifications, 237 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 131 commands. I have been awake for 2d 9h 17m 26s this session, and currently reference 116128 factoids. I'm using about 21520 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 5402.81/229.91 child 0.09/0.05	05:47
xnt_eee	lol	05:47
b-man	infobot: you suck	05:48
infobot	and very well I might add	05:48
xnt_eee	~google lol	05:48
b-man	lol	05:48
*** vandenoever has quit IRC		05:48
xnt_eee	~read lol	05:49
xnt_eee	~buy b-man	05:49
xnt_eee	~Help!	05:49
infobot	it has been said that help is /msg infobot help	05:49
xnt_eee	~lol	05:49
infobot	[lol] stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.	05:49
b-man	~dead	05:49
infobot	yes :(	05:49
*** skibur has joined #maemo		05:49
b-man	infobot: your a dork	05:49
b-man	~dork	05:49
infobot	Right back at you, b-man.	05:50
b-man	f*ck you, infobot	05:50
xnt_eee	infobot: kernelstats	05:50
luke-jr_	lulz	05:50
luke-jr_	~lulz	05:50
* infobot did it for da lulz		05:50
xnt_eee	~attack luke-jr	05:50
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing luke-jr		05:50
b-man	lol	05:50
luke-jr_	~die	05:50
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		05:50
b-man	heheha	05:51
xnt_eee	~stab luke-jr_	05:51
* infobot runs at luke-jr_ with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.		05:51
b-man	lol	05:51
xnt_eee	lol	05:51
luke-jr_	b-man: xnt_eee!	05:51
luke-jr_	come to #anime for IRC gamez	05:51
*** xnt_eee is now known as xnt		05:51
b-man	shure !!!	05:51
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b-man	i'm back	06:22
*** luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr		06:26
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DavidePalm	hi, does anyone use penguintv?	06:41
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luke-jr	b-man: hi b-mean	06:55
b-man	hello	06:55
xnt	lol	06:55
xnt	~lulz	06:56
* infobot did it for da lulz		06:56
b-man	~dies	06:56
infobot	i do?	06:56
b-man	yes	06:56
luke-jr	lulz	06:57
*** b-mean has joined #maemo		06:57
xnt	rofl	06:57
b-man	hello xnt aka b-mean	06:57
b-man	XD	06:57
xnt	:P	06:57
xnt	xD	06:57
b-man	~burn b-mean	06:58
* infobot pours gasoline all over b-mean, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		06:58
b-man	XD	06:58
b-mean	~attack b-man	06:59
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing b-man		06:59
b-man	~nuke b-mean	06:59
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at b-mean ... B☢☢M!		06:59
b-man	xD	06:59
b-mean	~die	06:59
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		06:59
luke-jr	]y xnt	06:59
b-man	~stab b-mean	06:59
* infobot runs at b-mean with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.		06:59
b-man	:D	06:59
luke-jr	bot abusers	07:00
b-man	lol	07:00
xnt	lol	07:00
b-man	~stab himself	07:00
* infobot runs at himself with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.		07:00
* xnt wants his own infobot		07:00
b-man	XD	07:00
fireun	frobot	07:00
b-man	~infobot	07:00
infobot	infobot is, like, [infobot], or infobot, or likes abuse	07:00
b-man	:P	07:00
luke-jr	my N810 is a portable pocket warmer while it compiles GCC!	07:00
b-man	mine is too lol	07:01
LiraNuna	lmao	07:01
fireun	yikes	07:01
Shadow__X	what temps does it go upto	07:01
b-man	~stab everyone and everything like a mad man	07:01
* infobot runs at everyone and everything like a mad man with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.		07:01
luke-jr	it needs a label: CAREFUL: avoid direct skin contact while compiling code!	07:01
xnt	:P	07:01
b-man	lol	07:02
luke-jr	b-man: hurry up	07:02
b-mean	~screw	07:02
* infobot takes out his screw driver and screws b-mean right up		07:02
xnt	WTF?	07:02
b-man	woh	07:02
luke-jr	O.O	07:03
b-man	~screw luke-jr	07:03
* infobot asks luke-jr to bend over		07:03
b-man	lol	07:03
* luke-jr charges infobot with first degree sexual assault of a child.		07:03
fireun	well thats cultured	07:03
GeneralAntilles	OK, enough bot abuse.	07:03
b-man	lolololol	07:03
xnt	ok	07:03
* xnt wants xntbot		07:03
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: come play with us in #anime ? :p	07:04
*** b-mean has left #maemo		07:06
DavidePalm	hi	07:08
xnt	konichiwa	07:08
xnt	:P	07:08
xnt	go to #anime	07:08
b-man	~screw everyone	07:08
* infobot asks everyone to bend over		07:08
b-man	omfg lol	07:09
xnt	rofl	07:09
*** b-mean has joined #maemo		07:11
*** b-mean is now known as yandere		07:11
xnt	rofl	07:11
xnt	~kill yandere	07:11
* infobot shoots a ionized fluxquark gun at yandere		07:11
xnt	i win	07:12
xnt	:P	07:12
b-man	lol	07:12
b-man	~rape yandere	07:12
* infobot takes yandere behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams		07:12
b-man	lol	07:12
xnt	WTF :P	07:13
LiraNuna	r.i.p #maemo	07:14
xnt	lol?	07:14
GeneralAntilles	b-man, enough.	07:14
b-man	LOL	07:14
b-man	ok, i'm done :)	07:14
*** yandere has quit IRC		07:15
*** xntbot has joined #maemo		07:15
b-man	xntbot: lol	07:16
xnt	(hack b-man	07:16
* xntbot hacks up b-man's acer		07:17
* b-man 's screen flickers		07:17
* b-man sees a error message from xntbot		07:18
b-man	lol jk	07:18
xnt	(take lm b-man	07:18
* xntbot takes b-man's lunch money		07:18
b-man	(take lm xnt	07:19
xntbot	Command Ignored	07:19
b-man	lol	07:19
xnt	(buy lol	07:19
xntbot	Lol out of stock	07:19
xnt	(take nt b-man	07:21
* b-man downloads and installs infobot		07:21
luke-jr	you two better hope GeneralAntilles can't gain op ;)	07:21
b-man	http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=2241	07:22
* xntbot rips b-man's Nokia Internet TabletTM right out of brians hands		07:22
pupnik	GeneralAntilles: we'll see about RX51 d-pad and buttons. if they're not suitable for gaming, i'm finished.	07:22
b-man	lol	07:22
xnt	luke-jr wait does this count against my bots too?	07:22
pupnik	n810 is a bust in that department, unfortunately	07:22
xnt	nokia better add that because better gpu = better games	07:23
b-man	xnt: http://voxel.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/infobot/infobot-1.5.3.tar.gz	07:23
b-man	;)	07:24
luke-jr	hmm	07:24
luke-jr	my N810 seems to lose wifi connection when it gets hot enough	07:24
xnt	( destroy /	07:25
luke-jr	(rm -rf /	07:25
* xntbot destroys / (rm -rf /)		07:25
xntbot	DO NOT RUN THAT!!!	07:25
xnt	:P	07:25
luke-jr	xnt: too late, why?	07:25
xnt	lol fail	07:26
luke-jr	rm: cannot remove root directory `/'	07:26
b-man	brb	07:26
xnt	DONT RUN THAT	07:26
luke-jr	xnt: it just errors	07:26
xnt	it deletes everything	07:26
luke-jr	nope	07:26
luke-jr	just errors	07:26
* xnt slaps his forehead		07:26
Shadow__X	if you run it as user on a maemo devices	07:26
b-man	not if you run rm -f /*	07:26
b-man	;)	07:27
Shadow__X	you dont get access to root do you	07:27
xnt	luke-jr seriously don't run that	07:27
luke-jr	Shadow__X: -r is dangerous ;)	07:27
luke-jr	xnt: seriously I did	07:27
luke-jr	but not on N810	07:27
luke-jr	on desktop	07:27
Shadow__X	-r is recursive -f is force	07:28
xnt	exactly	07:28
luke-jr	and --preserve-root is nice	07:28
xnt	be careful with rm commands	07:28
* pupnik first rm'd by accident in 1988		07:28
Shadow__X	luke-jr, i know what it does i also know that some repos are flaky and if you upgrade using apt it will delete your mounted share	07:28
* xnt has never rm'd		07:28
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GeneralAntilles	pupnik, just get a Pandora then help out Mer.	07:29
* xnt nevers rms on his ipod		07:29
xnt	it bricks	07:29
xnt	it	07:29
* luke-jr rms xnt's ipod		07:29
* xnt 's ipod it off (drained battery from listening to music all day		07:30
*** xntbot has quit IRC		07:30
xnt	brb	07:31
Shadow__X	GeneralAntilles, whens the eta for the pandora	07:33
GeneralAntilles	Shadow__X, maybe sometime in 2012 as far as I can tell.	07:33
luke-jr	pupnik: let's design our own Free software handheld? ;)	07:33
luke-jr	Shadow__X: I think Pandora is vapourware	07:33
Shadow__X	hmm but shouldnt the new tablet be better	07:33
Shadow__X	for everything other than gaming	07:34
GeneralAntilles	Shadow__X, than?	07:34
Shadow__X	pandora will be better for games	07:34
Shadow__X	all the buttons	07:34
GeneralAntilles	Depends on the games.	07:35
GeneralAntilles	Accelerometers will be nice for a few of them.	07:35
pupnik	eh	07:36
Shadow__X	right hmm would that give an iphone type feel	07:36
GeneralAntilles	I'd really dig a marble-maze style game.	07:36
pupnik	like Marble Madness?	07:36
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	07:36
pupnik	maybe a simpler one	07:36
pupnik	marble madness made heavy use of trackball	07:37
luke-jr	GeneralAntilles: like Neverball?	07:37
pupnik	you wouldn't just want to tilt to get super speed	07:37
pupnik	yeah neverball would be perfect	07:37
luke-jr	pupnik: I've played Neverball with my Thinkpad	07:37
luke-jr	it has accelerometers	07:37
*** b-man is now known as FireFox		07:37
pupnik	which thinkpad?	07:37
luke-jr	I forget	07:38
luke-jr	it's long broken	07:38
locutus	almost all thinkpads have accelerators	07:38
pupnik	not my t42p, a30, a21, or the 486 based ones	07:38
locutus	http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Active_Protection_System	07:38
locutus	those are ANCIENT	07:38
pupnik	?	07:38
locutus	actually, t42 should have it	07:40
pupnik	hmm maybe u right	07:40
pupnik	2ghz is fast enough btw	07:40
pupnik	and the 14.1 form factor is much more pleasant than these big honkin notebooks	07:41
pupnik	imo	07:41
pupnik	i mean, i need room for coffee and ashtray	07:41
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DavidePalm	Hi, anyone have issues with penguintv not starting at all?	07:42
DavidePalm	http://pastebin.com/f7dffe5c6	07:43
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DavidePalm	anyone know what that error could be?	07:44
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* xnt has an imb thinkpad r32 :P		07:48
xnt	* ibm	07:48
locutus	i have a IBM z50 \o/	07:48
locutus	MIPS Thinkpad!	07:48
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luke-jr	Ö	07:49
fireun	I have a sliderule!	07:49
fireun	neener	07:49
* xnt has a TI-89 when he was in the 7th grade		07:50
luke-jr	BUT IS IT MIPS⁈	07:50
xnt	* + titanium	07:50
GeneralAntilles	68k	07:50
GeneralAntilles	Which is much cooler than MIPS	07:51
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luke-jr	no wai	07:51
* xnt had an old intel dos server as a first comp		07:51
FireFox	cough	07:51
*** FireFox is now known as b-man		07:51
luke-jr	I was raised by a Z80	07:51
xnt	cant recall the cpu	07:51
*** xnt is now known as FireFox		07:52
FireFox	:P	07:52
FireFox	lol	07:52
b-man	lol	07:52
*** FireFox is now known as IceFox		07:52
*** b-man is now known as FireFox3		07:52
* fireun was raised by an HP-85		07:52
*** FireFox3 is now known as IceWeasel		07:53
* IceFox had an Point of sale workstation as a first linux (redhat) comp		07:53
*** IceFox is now known as xnt		07:53
*** IceWeasel is now known as b-mean		07:53
*** b-mean is now known as b-man		07:53
*** xnt is now known as tnx		07:54
*** b-man is now known as nam-b		07:54
*** tnx is now known as xnt14		07:54
*** nam-b is now known as b-man16		07:54
*** xnt14 is now known as xnt		07:55
*** b-man16 is now known as b-man		07:55
*** xnt is now known as b-man16		07:55
b-man	wtf	07:55
b-man16	lol	07:55
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*** b-man16 is now known as gopi_		07:56
gopi_	lol	07:56
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*** gopi_ is now known as Shadow_x		07:56
*** b-man is now known as b-man16-		07:56
*** b-man16- is now known as b-man15		07:56
b-man15	lol	07:56
fireun	lloll	07:56
*** Shadow_x is now known as b-man17		07:56
*** b-man17 is now known as b-man99		07:56
b-man99	:P	07:56
b-man15	XD	07:57
*** b-man99 is now known as b-man2		07:57
fireun	identity theft! alert! alarm! actung!	07:57
*** b-man15 is now known as b-man1		07:57
b-man2	I CAN HAZ N800	07:57
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b-man2	:p	07:57
b-man1	lol	07:57
*** b-man2 is now known as fireun5		07:57
fireun5	lol	07:57
*** fireun5 is now known as xnt		07:58
*** b-man1 is now known as xnt14		07:58
luke-jr	omfg	07:58
luke-jr	spammers	07:58
xnt	~seen b-man	07:58
infobot	b-man <n=b-man@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2m 46s ago, saying: 'wtf'.	07:58
xnt	lol	07:58
xnt	ok ill stop	07:58
* xnt14 is done		07:58
*** xnt14 is now known as b-man		07:59
xnt	damn #anime and #mer looks like crap	07:59
xnt	long list of nick changes	07:59
luke-jr	LOL	07:59
b-man	haha!!!	07:59
*** xnt is now known as xnt14		07:59
xnt14	ok i really am 14 so ill take xnt14	07:59
*** b-man is now known as b-man16		08:00
luke-jr	kids	08:01
*** Shadow__X has joined #maemo		08:01
xnt14	バカ jk	08:01
b-man16	hehe	08:01
xnt14	oops	08:01
xnt14	愚か者	08:01
xnt14	jk	08:02
xnt14	luke-jr is a 愚か者	08:02
xnt14	jk	08:02
xnt14	lol	08:02
luke-jr	()$@#%Q@_^	08:02
b-man16	lol	08:02
xnt14	ROFL	08:02
xnt14	luke-jr did you read that?	08:03
b-man16	ROFL!!!!!!	08:03
luke-jr	no	08:03
b-man16	xD	08:03
xnt14	http://translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=en#ja\|en\|%E6%84%9A%E3%81%8B%E8%80%85	08:03
b-man16	lol	08:03
* xnt14 imagines the look on luke-jr's face when he reads that		08:03
luke-jr	xnt14: s/when/if/	08:04
luke-jr	I have no intention to	08:04
xnt14	:P	08:04
xnt14	ok	08:04
xnt14	ルーク-ジュニア素晴らしいです...	08:04
b-man16	ファック！ファック！	08:05
*** kaltsi has quit IRC		08:05
xnt14	ok that didn't translate right	08:05
xnt14	lol	08:05
* b-man16 時計ルーク-ジュニア死ぬ		08:06
b-man16	~ルークを殺す-ジュニア	08:08
*** b-man16 is now known as [b		08:09
*** [b is now known as b-man		08:09
*** b-man is now known as _		08:12
xnt14	luke-jr doesn't come out right throgh google translate	08:12
_	neither does b-man	08:13
*** _ is now known as Guest90395		08:13
*** Guest90395 is now known as b-man		08:13
radic_	where are the configurationfiles of the webbrowser located?	08:13
xnt14		08:13
xnt14	b-homem não	08:13
xnt14	radic_ : /home/user/.mozilla I think	08:14
b-man	yup	08:14
xnt14	b-man translate	08:14
xnt14	b-homem não	08:14
b-man	lol	08:14
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b-man	xnt14: look at #anime lol	08:16
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b-man	nooo!!!	08:16
*** b-man has quit IRC		08:16
*** glima[AWAY] is now known as glima		08:26
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jmob	Is it possible to get flash version 10 on the n810?	08:36
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pupnik	my new samsung mp3 player runs on linux + sdl, mmuless kernel	08:43
pupnik	pretty cheap, slim	08:43
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Stskeeps	morning kaltsi :)	08:47
*** glima is now known as glima[AWAY]		08:47
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timeless_mbp	radic_: which "configuration files" for the web browser?	09:10
timeless_mbp	the web browser ui is controlled by a couple of other files, the core is mostly in the directory previously mentioned	09:10
timeless_mbp	but we also pay attn to some gconf settings	09:10
radic_	timeless_mbp: I solved the problem	09:11
timeless_mbp	jmob: if you pay adobe $$$$$$$$$$ and then work on it, sure	09:11
timeless_mbp	otherwise, not really	09:12
Stskeeps	morning timeless_mbp	09:12
timeless_mbp	really it's more like (very) late evening, but hello there :)	09:12
jmob	Doesnt it exist for linux?	09:12
timeless_mbp	for arm?	09:12
timeless_mbp	can i have whatever you're smoking?	09:12
jmob	Oh, right, arm...	09:12
timeless_mbp	to the extent that it exists for arm, it's mostly because nokia is paying adobe and working w/ adobe on it	09:13
jmob	Adobe is incapable of compiling for other archs...	09:13
timeless_mbp	no	09:13
timeless_mbp	it's just not quite the same priority	09:13
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timeless_mbp	it can work on arm, but if you want it to work fast on strange hardwares	09:13
timeless_mbp	well....	09:13
timeless_mbp	the first problem should be obvious	09:13
timeless_mbp	flash itself is reasonably portable	09:14
timeless_mbp	but what matters to users isn't really portability	09:14
timeless_mbp	it's performance (battery life, speed)	09:14
jmob	I dont quite understand the barriers though, why is compiling for other archs so hard if their code is well written/tested	09:15
timeless_mbp	sadly video decoders written in C don't magically become fast on random platforms	09:15
timeless_mbp	especially when you're asked to use a really lame version of a C compiler	09:15
timeless_mbp	but really, if you want to be a consumer, and you sound like one	09:15
timeless_mbp	please don't wonder here	09:15
timeless_mbp	you aren't paying me enough	09:16
jmob	What does maemo require?	09:16
timeless_mbp	consumers pay for products that work well	09:16
timeless_mbp	but engineers aren't paid by consumers to listen to them complain about random products	09:16
timeless_mbp	otoh, if you give me 1kEUR i'll be your consultant and listen to you whine for ... hrm, 5 hours :)	09:17
jmob	True enough...	09:17
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jmob	I am a consumer in this case	09:17
* timeless_mbp noticed		09:17
jmob	Otoh, you continue to respond to my "whining"	09:18
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* timeless_mbp is stupid		09:18
jmob	(That was meant in jesting manner)	09:19
jmob	Doesnt omap include some hardware acceleration aimed at video decoding?	09:19
timeless_mbp	those things don't work out of the box	09:20
timeless_mbp	there aren't C primitives for them, and since you don't use them when you write code for x86/x64/ppc, you actually have to write and test new code	09:21
timeless_mbp	this is where the claim of "if your code is so portable, why... " falls apart	09:21
timeless_mbp	the n8x0s have a DSP too	09:21
timeless_mbp	but again, those aren't standard items you find in x86 hardware	09:22
jmob	Right, just "wondering", sorry (-:	09:22
timeless_mbp	so again, you have to write and test	09:22
timeless_mbp	and as it happens, it seems that each DSP is different	09:22
timeless_mbp	so it isn't write once, it's write per device	09:22
timeless_mbp	(or perhaps device class if you claim the n800 and n810 are different devices in the same class)	09:22
GAN800	Hopefully that'll be getting better soon.	09:23
* timeless_mbp chuckles		09:23
timeless_mbp	yeah right	09:23
GAN800	With slightly more standardized DSP software	09:24
timeless_mbp	oh, and this stuff is hardly standard stuff that any random programmer can just do	09:24
timeless_mbp	you get to read lots of technical specifications, contact the vendors to ask questions	09:24
RST38h	GAN: Standardized across OMAP3 line :)	09:24
timeless_mbp	and then you deal w/ reality which includes bugs	09:24
GAN800	OpenMAX LOOKS to be moving in a positive direction.	09:24
GAN800	RST38h, better than every vendor rolling their own for OMAP2. ;)	09:24
jmob	Well, presumably there's certain "pivot" points in the code such that not everything has to be rewritten...	09:25
* RST38h thought TI was the only vendor of OMAP2. Missed something? =)		09:25
timeless_mbp	jmob: mostly it's just the video decoders	09:25
timeless_mbp	but it isn't one decoder	09:25
timeless_mbp	it's one for each codec	09:25
timeless_mbp	since they all need to be fast	09:25
GAN800	RST38h, DSP software implementation.	09:25
timeless_mbp	well.. ok, we might not give you all of them	09:25
timeless_mbp	but anyway, that's the idea	09:25
RST38h	GAN: Ah, that...	09:26
timeless_mbp	adobe could probably ship a flash10 for the n800/n810 w/o support for Videos	09:26
timeless_mbp	but they wouldn't	09:26
timeless_mbp	and they wouldn't let anyone else	09:26
timeless_mbp	(it'd fail the certification requirements)	09:26
timeless_mbp	and no consumer would want it	09:26
GeneralAntilles	Flash == YouTube	09:26
jmob	There's at least one that would	09:27
* timeless_mbp is shocked		09:27
timeless_mbp	what could you possibly need from flash10 that doesn't include video?	09:27
jmob	Oh, you said w/o video, i retract my previous statement	09:28
RST38h	http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/05/Picture_10_610x386.png	09:29
RST38h	Ehhehe...	09:29
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RST38h	Neither Nokia nor SE are included though. Weird.	09:30
RST38h	http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009082 <=== Nokia does show up in "dumb phones" category. I wonder how they did that survey...	09:32
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user__	.	09:57
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pupnik	Read Thomas Woods' "Meltdown" to understand the cause of the crisis.	10:07
pupnik	http://www.amazon.com/Meltdown-Free-Market-Collapsed-Government-Bailouts/dp/1596985879	10:07
pupnik	"It is curious that Congress is on the verge of passing an economic stimulus bill that is opposed by nearly two thirds of Americans. Mr. Woods provides the logic behind the intuition of this increasingly disenfranchised majority. Americans opposed to further government meddling should read this book to fully arm themselves with the knowledge necessary to win the debate. Well-intentioned Americans who support government intervention in the economy should	10:07
RST38h	Well, opposed != wrong	10:13
RST38h	Just means that if these gentlemen fuck up, they can forget about being reelected.	10:13
roope	let's not debate economics or politics here, please. :)	10:17
RST38h	roope: Should we discuss the new ITT theme instead then? =)	10:19
* RST38h cackles evilly		10:19
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roope	Well, my opinions on it could really start an argument, so perhaps not. :)	10:28
* RST38h hands out huge plastic happy face masks to everyone then		10:29
* Vulcanis puts on happyface mask.		10:31
Vulcanis	Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.	10:31
Vulcanis	The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.	10:31
Vulcanis	Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me Vulcanis.	10:31
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pupnik	if the world's governments continue in this fashion, we may see such a decline in civilization as to make maemo irrelevant	10:35
pupnik	i would ask you to consider whether you are seeing this already	10:35
Vulcanis	maemo won't be irrelivant, you can... organize your... revolution.. on it	10:36
pupnik	anybody got a graph for commits, bug reports, updates, new releases over the past 3 years?	10:36
GeneralAntilles	Of everything or just Maemo?	10:38
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pupnik	maemo	10:41
GeneralAntilles	Steady increase, I'd say.	10:41
GeneralAntilles	With a spike over the past year or so.	10:41
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EpoXXy	good morning =)	10:45
pupnik	nice	10:46
GeneralAntilles	I definitely know Maemo SW has be hiring like crazy.	10:46
EpoXXy	i've seen that it's possible to send a2dp from an n800 to a compatible headset etc. but is it possible for a computer to send a2dp TO the n800 that plays the sounds on its small speakers?	10:47
roope	Yes, we're hiring like crazy.	10:48
roope	Mostly to Finland, unfortunately.	10:48
GeneralAntilles	Hope some real fruit from that hiring will be coming sooner rather than later, though. :(	10:49
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roope	Yeah, obviously it takes some time from hiring to learning the ropes to doing work for products to the products coming out.	10:50
RST38h	Finland is good.	10:52
* RST38h suspects that Nokia does have a secret plan on Maemo in phones then. Otherwise, there would be no reason for hiring that many people		10:53
timeless_mbp	RST38h: way to silence roope :)	10:53
roope	Yeah. :)	10:54
roope	Yeah to the silencing, that is. :)	10:54
timeless_mbp	pupnik: ohloh.net :)	10:54
* pupnik clicks		10:54
timeless_mbp	RST38h: finland is evil	10:54
pupnik	finland kicks ass	10:54
timeless_mbp	my ass	10:54
pupnik	did you see their kill ratio in their war with russia?	10:54
pupnik	crazy	10:55
roope	Yeah... We sure like to kill Russians...	10:55
roope	(another very good topic ;)	10:55
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timeless_mbp	technically we hired a handful of people in the bay area	10:57
timeless_mbp	one hand that is	10:57
roope	keeping with the "no numbers" policy, timeless could be referring to a centipede.	10:57
roope	(well that made no sense whatsoever).	10:58
timeless_mbp	indeed not	10:58
RST38h	Oh it makes perfect sense	10:58
timeless_mbp	but i'm not really certain how many names fit in one hand	10:58
timeless_mbp	so roope is technically correct	10:58
RST38h	Bay area. Centipede.	10:58
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* RST38h is trying to make binary translator backtrack and set sane branch addresses		11:01
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RST38h	Anyone remembers if x86 has conditional jumps to address given in a register	11:08
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RST38h	Naah it does not =(	11:13
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sampppa	hey, can you guys get horizontal scrolling to work with hildon pannable?	11:15
sampppa	http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/tutorial/html/x368.html like in this example it should work	11:15
sampppa	but i only can scroll vertical	11:15
sampppa	oh it shouldnt scroll vertical by default?	11:16
sampppa	horizontal i mean	11:16
RST38h	it should not	11:17
RST38h	Appears to be a vertically scrollable list	11:17
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sampppa	yeah it needs HILDON_MOVEMENT_MODE_BOTH to be set	11:19
sampppa	but it says on the bottom of that page, "In this example, horizontal and vertical panning are activated as that is needed to allow users to be able to interact both all the widgets."	11:20
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timeless_mbp	a buggy example in beta documentation, wow	11:27
timeless_mbp	if the text is wrong, please file a bug :)	11:27
timeless_mbp	they crave feedback	11:27
sampppa	:)	11:27
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user__	any application for copy website localy iam on diablo instead chinook?	11:44
thux	hello all, does tear have config file somewhere? i would like to set where to save folder	11:48
user__	any application for copy website localy iam on diablo instead chinook?	11:49
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thux	user__: wget?	11:51
user__	wget?	11:51
thux	wget -k -r website.address	11:52
radic_	how can i write the degree-char?	11:52
thux	if i remember rightly	11:52
thux	first have to install wget	11:53
thux	sudo apt-get install wget	11:53
thux	i don't know if you have to have extras repository	11:54
user__	no is not in the extra	11:54
radic_	Stskeeps: you are there?	11:55
user__	its source or a .deb	11:55
thux	qwerty12: in what repo is wget?	11:55
user__	please	11:55
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qwerty12	http://maemo.org/development/tools/	11:55
thux	thanx	11:56
user__	every go	11:56
user__	tx qwerty	11:56
user__	and thux	11:56
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radic_	qwerty12: can you say me how too wriite special chars like the degree symbol?	11:57
qwerty12	Dunno, I just use the symbols input on the VKB if I need to use symbols	11:57
RST38h	"Merck created a phony, but real sounding, peer-review journal titled the 'Australasian Journal of Bone and Joint Medicine' to publish data favorable to its products"	11:57
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thux	some websites are quite large remembered pulling easily 500mb with wget -k -r	12:02
thux	some can disable wget if no phony broser header is not set	12:03
thux	browser	12:04
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RST38h	that is easy to work around though :)	12:09
radic_	qwerty12: ° is not on the software keybord	12:10
qwerty12	It's always fun to run wget --recursive to get a folder while, all the time, you forgot --no-parent	12:10
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thux	some sysadmin downloaded ms-site with wget	12:11
thux	apparently large	12:12
lcuk	microsoft site is really bad for saving - they destroy links after just a few months instead of planning for the future	12:17
lcuk	the number of times i click results and stuff and end up on dead "this page fucked off" holding page is terrible	12:18
thux	ok	12:19
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timeless_mbp	lcuk: can i get you to look at a random C change?	12:21
lcuk	with what?	12:22
timeless_mbp	ignore the what	12:22
lcuk	ok	12:22
timeless_mbp	the goal is to change the code w/o changing the logic	12:22
lcuk	as long as you dont want me rebuilding the linux kernel lol	12:23
timeless_mbp	query lcuk	12:23
timeless_mbp	no, don't build anything	12:23
timeless_mbp	just read it and tell me if you see any way that the code's old and new behavior could be different	12:24
timeless_mbp	assume that arrays are not going to change while the code is running and that functions will behave rationally	12:24
lcuk	alright, gimme a few	12:24
mavhc	what's great is when you click links in the WinXP interface and those are broken too	12:25
user__	how download in mmc1 whit wget?	12:28
thux	cd in mmc1	12:29
lcuk	timeless, your new check "" while(i!=0) "" is different to the old method which would continue while ""i>=0""	12:29
timeless_mbp	?	12:30
user__	i make it but download in /	12:30
lcuk	the old method used a for loop	12:30
lcuk	with i >= 0 && some other things	12:30
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thux	user__: cd /media/mmc1	12:30
lcuk	your new one continues looping only while (i!=0)	12:30
user__	yes	12:30
timeless_mbp	right	12:30
lcuk	so you will miss the final char	12:31
lcuk	or first char whichever way its working	12:31
timeless_mbp	will it?	12:31
* timeless_mbp looks		12:31
user__	but after the downld go in / instead /media/mcc1	12:31
lcuk	i prefer the readability of the while() loop over the complex for(;;) block :)	12:32
timeless_mbp	lcuk: so, if the string is 0 long, it will return false, right?	12:32
timeless_mbp	and then the only question is what it thinks about the first char in the string...	12:32
lcuk	hmmm you also start from one character further along in the new block	12:32
thux	user__: are you in /media/mmc1 what say pwd?	12:33
lcuk	old: PRInt32 i = pos - 1;	12:33
lcuk	new: PRUint32 i = pos;	12:33
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lcuk	the answer is, yes you have changed the logic and its different :P	12:33
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timeless_mbp	yeah, ok...	12:33
* timeless_mbp sighs and tries to fix		12:33
lcuk	timeless, ive been working with these damned +- 1 adjustments all year ;)	12:34
lcuk	this kind of logic makes liqbase show graphical glitches and drawing too much or too little	12:34
lcuk	they are annoyingto fix	12:34
user__	yes iam in and sudo	12:34
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thux	strange	12:35
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thux	qwerty12: ain't wget should download in working directory?	12:35
qwerty12	it should do as far as I am aware	12:36
lcuk	timeless, also if you want me to glance over stuff - i cant read patch files well, i broke it into the 2 final pieces and put them side by side	12:36
timeless_mbp	would -y be better?	12:36
lcuk	i dunno im not a patch machine lol	12:36
lcuk	i didnt know that codebase was in c++ thou	12:37
thux	user__: i try it myself if you wait	12:37
user__	ok tx for generous help	12:37
lcuk	tick tock - amazing clock designs: http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2009/05/extraordinary-clocks-and-watches.html	12:38
Bobbe	Hey guys. I just got my N800, so I don't know if it should be this way, but is my E71 supposed to access my wifi connection faster than my E71?	12:38
Bobbe	*sorry, than my N800?	12:38
* lcuk erases the witty comment he was typing		12:38
lcuk	Bobbe, dunno what have you noticed speed wise	12:39
timeless_mbp	Bobbe: define access?	12:39
Bobbe	Well, I just tried using the youtube website from my E71, from Canola and from the N800 browser	12:40
Bobbe	Canola is the slowest by far	12:40
Bobbe	the N800 fares very well	12:40
Bobbe	but I see the wifi more responsive to the E71	12:40
timeless_mbp	see.. wifi is a service	12:40
thux	user__: i got the page in mmc1 when wget -k -r http://somepage.org i didn't use sudo	12:41
Bobbe	I have to use my 3g modem and share it with my router over wifi via ICS (modem doesn't work on Linux, trust me, I tried)	12:41
Bobbe	so I keep looking at the connection icons in my tray (all of them, there are three actually), and when I access something on the internet with my E71, the moment I open the browser the connection lights flash and I see them working	12:42
Bobbe	with the N800 the connection flashes quickly, turns off, waits 2 or 3 seconds, then launches again, but not as fast	12:43
Bobbe	does that make any sense?	12:43
Stskeeps	difference in browser engine maybe	12:43
Bobbe	I dunno, but it doesn't seem like it. The same thing happens with loads of different apps	12:44
AStorm	hello	12:45
Stskeeps	morning AStorm	12:45
Bobbe	whatever tries to access my wifi from the N800 seems to be having a hard time doing it. Could it be related to some config in my router? Something about the channel, or some other config?	12:45
Stskeeps	try disabling power saving and see if it helps	12:45
timeless_mbp	sadly, i can't think of any apps which can be used for benchmarking	12:45
user__	i got it tx	12:45
timeless_mbp	because the platforms are so different	12:45
Bobbe	yeah that's true	12:46
Bobbe	maybe trying to download a given file	12:46
AStorm	Stskeeps, so, it mostly works	12:46
AStorm	what do I have to install to get the adv. battery monitor?	12:46
AStorm	(urls, repo urls wanted)	12:47
Bobbe	how do I disable power save?	12:47
Stskeeps	AStorm: qwerty12 probably knows	12:47
Stskeeps	~wifi-psm	12:47
infobot	wifi-psm is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)	12:47
Stskeeps	-> Bobbe	12:47
AStorm	yes, in Maemo, it's in connection options	12:47
AStorm	just below transmitter power	12:47
Bobbe	k lemme try	12:47
AStorm	warning - this will drain battery	12:48
user__	and if i want just one kind of file downld in website?	12:48
timeless_mbp	Bobbe: trying to download a file may test browser behaviors more than network behavior	12:49
Bobbe	hm, how so?	12:49
RST38h	Is mov dword ptr <immediate>,edx prohibited ???	12:50
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* timeless_mbp shrugs		12:51
AStorm	RST38h, in ARM?	12:52
AStorm	ah, no x86	12:52
RST38h	AStorm: Of course not, x86	12:53
AStorm	ptr can't go through immediate	12:53
AStorm	it has to go via one of CS, SS	12:53
AStorm	and then SP,BP	12:53
AStorm	you probably want EDP	12:54
AStorm	grr tpyos	12:54
RST38h	What is EDP?	12:54
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AStorm	:) EBP	12:54
AStorm	register	12:54
RST38h	All I want is mov dword ptr MAGICKEY,edx when MAGICKEY is a 32bit field	12:54
RST38h	Really weird that MASM does not let this through	12:54
AStorm	then why ptr?	12:55
RST38h	immediate operand not allowed	12:55
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RST38h	mmmm	12:55
AStorm	ptr means "pointing to memory"	12:55
AStorm	drop it and just bump the immediate value	12:55
RST38h	because MAGICKEY points to memory?	12:55
AStorm	it doesn't, if it's an ASM const.	12:55
AStorm	other than that, you have to go via stack registers	12:56
RST38h	I have to do WHAT???	12:56
AStorm	mov that to EBP	12:56
AStorm	then mov dword ptr EBP, EDX	12:56
* RST38h gives up on AStorm		12:57
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AStorm	you can't move immediate ptr to EDX directly, that's why	12:57
AStorm	this is MASM, so it's intel syntax, yes	12:59
AStorm	hmm, going through ESI should work too	12:59
RST38h	I am not moving anything to EDX	12:59
RST38h	I am moving EDX to a 32bit memory location pointed to by MAGICKEY	13:00
AStorm	ah, so again I mistook the order	13:00
RST38h	And, of course, I can use ANY register for the dest address not just EBP	13:00
* AStorm wants to kill AT&T and Intel		13:00
AStorm	yes, in extended mode, sorry for the confusion, too much 16-bit recently	13:00
RST38h	The real question is why the hell I can't use an immediate address....	13:01
AStorm	shouldn't that be @MAGICKEY or such?	13:01
AStorm	again AT&T, meh	13:02
AStorm	this should be [MAGICKEY]	13:02
AStorm	:)	13:02
AStorm	or mov dword ptr offset MAGICKEY, EDX	13:03
AStorm	I got rusty with Intel syntax	13:03
AStorm	one or the other should work	13:03
RST38h	dword ptr MAGICKEY show do the job.	13:05
RST38h	s/show/should	13:05
AStorm	I think yes	13:06
AStorm	no idea why it doesn't	13:06
AStorm	what does MAGICKEY point to?	13:06
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AStorm	if you did to [MAGICKEY], you'll write to the contents of it...	13:07
AStorm	s/ll/d/	13:08
infobot	AStorm meant: if you did to [MAGICKEY], you'd write to the contents of it...	13:08
AStorm	mhm, no, to the location it points to	13:08
Bobbe	Ok there's definitely something wrong	13:08
AStorm	which is what you want	13:08
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Bobbe	my 3g connection (600kbps) is loading faster than my 2mbps wifi	13:09
AStorm	Bobbe, does it happen with other connections?	13:09
AStorm	I mean, wifi	13:09
Bobbe	I could only test with the one at work	13:10
Bobbe	and that is some slow connection	13:10
Bobbe	could never tell	13:10
Bobbe	maybe I messed something up with my router config?	13:11
AStorm	hard to mess up so bad	13:11
AStorm	but if it's going at 2Mbps, then it's definitely broken	13:11
AStorm	probably packet loss	13:12
AStorm	3G is resilient OTOH	13:12
Bobbe	TRUE	13:13
Bobbe	sorry	13:13
Bobbe	true	13:13
Bobbe	how can I test/fix this/	13:13
Bobbe	?	13:13
Bobbe	try a different router?	13:14
Bobbe	maybe it's the damn ICS thing?	13:14
AStorm	nah, ICS works well...	13:14
RST38h	Some chinese web design studio continues spamming me and the WANT a response	13:14
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AStorm	spamback?	13:15
RST38h	Poor annoying suckers...	13:15
RST38h	Yea, that may be a good idea in this case	13:15
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Bobbe	is there a network activity applet for maemo?	13:25
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Stskeeps	there's in Connection info in the app menu or something	13:25
AStorm	in the menu and control panel too	13:26
Bobbe	thx	13:27
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oilinki	I wonder if anyone have tried to use cdma evdo usb modem with n810?	13:36
AStorm	sure, people did	13:37
AStorm	the problem is that you have to carry the cable	13:37
AStorm	and powered hub too	13:37
AStorm	(as evdo modems need full 500 mA)	13:37
oilinki	AStorm: ok thanks. the power might be the biggest issue.	13:38
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oilinki	one option, I was thinkin is to use n810 or 770 as wan connection. eg. Internet - CDMA modem - 770 - router - PC :)	13:40
oilinki	I'm currently using openwrt router with usb-port, but that could be another option.	13:41
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AStorm	that's crazy talk	13:42
AStorm	it is possible, but indeed crazy	13:42
AStorm	for CDMA you still need a powered hub and possibly another external power source (outlet)	13:43
oilinki	well could be. Anyway now the connection is working. I had to put usb-modem to the roof to be able to get an decent connection. using 10m usb-cable is not the best option either, but it works.	13:43
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lcuk	yerga, are you around	14:10
yerga	lcuk, yes I think so	14:10
lcuk	heh, whats your blog page link	14:10
yerga	yerga.net/blog	14:11
lcuk	ive got someone asking about gtk widgets and what can be included	14:11
lcuk	sampppa, step out of the shadows and ask ffs :D	14:12
AStorm	hey, I messed up root pass in Mer I think	14:12
AStorm	how can I fix this?	14:12
lcuk	same way you fix root password forgetfullness anywhere else	14:12
AStorm	boot single and run passwd? a bit hard :P	14:13
lcuk	my finger looks like ET	14:13
sampppa	yerga: is it possible to put hildon pannablea area in gtkfixed container ?	14:13
yerga	sampppa, I haven't tested it	14:13
yerga	but I imagine so	14:13
sampppa	yerga: so that it would work	14:13
yerga	pannable area is similar to scrollwindow	14:13
lcuk	hildon extensions are just subclassed gtk widgets arent they	14:13
AStorm	ah, I didn't	14:14
sampppa	and scrollwindow works in gtkfixed ?	14:14
AStorm	just wrong kb layout	14:14
lcuk	heh astorm	14:14
yerga	sampppa, if it doesn't work with a simple 'add'	14:14
lcuk	gory ET finger picture after stitches removed :O http://liqbase.net/finger_macro.jpg	14:14
yerga	try with 'add_with_viewport'	14:14
sampppa	yerga: ok gonna try	14:15
AStorm	lcuk, aaargh my brain! ;)	14:15
yerga	sampppa, tell us if it works ;)	14:15
Stskeeps	lcuk: auch	14:15
Jaffa	lcuk: was the trip worth the pain?	14:16
lcuk	absolutely - i had said i would give my right hand to go - i really didnt think nokia would take it literally	14:17
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Jaffa	heh	14:17
sampppa	:)	14:18
lcuk	jaffa, this week of not really coding has been good as well, when i recover and get going i know what i have to do	14:19
GAN800	yerga, see the Ars article?	14:20
yerga	GAN800, yes	14:20
yerga	I'm famous now :P	14:20
GAN800	Hehe	14:20
lcuk	im moving liqbase from the private .git server to maemo garage soon as well	14:20
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pupnik	got pix of the hand lcuk?	14:24
lcuk	i just posted it	14:24
pupnik	i see it	14:24
pupnik	looks worse than mine	14:25
pupnik	<- also put hand through a door 2 weeks ago	14:25
pupnik	glass	14:25
lcuk	how did you manage that!	14:26
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pupnik	punched the window in	14:26
pupnik	to make a point	14:27
lcuk	:S	14:27
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, betting that the glass wasn't fist-proof? :P	14:29
pupnik	twas not mah frieahn	14:30
pupnik	bbl lunch	14:30
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sampppa	yerga: yeah it works	14:41
yerga	sampppa, ok, cool	14:41
lcuk	\o/ nice	14:42
sampppa	yerga: at least if i put hildon pannable area on gtk table and gtktable on gtkfixed	14:43
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AStorm	mmmh, Mer has Python 2.6.2	15:07
AStorm	will we get an update for Chinook/Diablo too?	15:08
Stskeeps	not sure	15:09
Stskeeps	mer has python2.6 cos ubuntu has it :P	15:09
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AStorm	ok, any todo app I can grab right now?	15:14
Stskeeps	"osmo", maybe	15:15
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AStorm	and there's gtodo too, and other random stuff	15:17
AStorm	I need that list in app manager too	15:17
AStorm	btw, do add less to the next one	15:18
AStorm	next version of Mer	15:18
Stskeeps	nod	15:18
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AStorm	hey, it is there, wth?	15:24
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AStorm	Stskeeps, maemopad+ change directory dialog is thoroughly broken	16:05
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Stskeeps	we're lacking icons, it's the new hildon file chooser	16:05
Macer	wow	16:06
Macer	that pacquiao fight was just a brutal ass kicking	16:06
Stskeeps	lo macer	16:06
Macer	hi Stskeeps	16:06
Macer	hatton got killed and that last punch hurt me and i was only watching it on television	16:07
AStorm	Stskeeps, also, this time it seems adv. backlight exploded	16:07
AStorm	on the reboot	16:07
AStorm	now it doesn't change the backlight level	16:07
Stskeeps	hmm	16:07
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thux	i got 'cannot preserve ownership of' when move files to mmc, is it cause of dosfs in mmc? would it be good to format mmcs to ext2?	16:08
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AStorm	Stskeeps, more importantly, all hildon-fm is broken	16:11
AStorm	this includes tiny file manager	16:11
Stskeeps	nod	16:11
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AStorm	hmmh, and "close this app" applet is missing an icon	16:12
AStorm	add some X or another :)	16:12
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Stskeeps	hmm? the rightmost one?	16:13
Stskeeps	or the applet you can enable which shouldn't be there in the first place :P	16:13
AStorm	yes, that one, which is excellent usability	16:14
AStorm	do fix it :)	16:14
AStorm	just needs an icon or sth	16:14
Stskeeps	the rightmost one in http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/?action=view&current=zaurus-google-maps.png ?	16:14
Macer	wonder how much i can download before tmob cuts my connection	16:15
Macer	i should just leave it downloading for like 4 days straight and see what happens	16:15
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Stskeeps	who is muru.com btw?	16:34
suihkulokki	Stskeeps: try the command "whois muru.com" :9	16:37
Stskeeps	that'd be too easy ;>	16:38
* Stskeeps really wonders what it would take to bring n8x0 kernel to be sane on newer versions		16:39
Stskeeps	other than loss of sanity, that is	16:39
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alphalux	can someone clue me into a cron daemon for diablo? I found an extremely old binary from some obscure place, and it's functionality was a bit obscure.	16:48
lopz	hola	16:50
AStorm	Stskeeps, hmmh?	16:51
AStorm	rightmost? I can see no icon there	16:51
AStorm	unless you mean the picker	16:51
AStorm	I mean the unselected "Close window" applet	16:51
Stskeeps	AStorm: the rightmost moon like thing :P	16:51
Stskeeps	ah	16:51
Stskeeps	well it just needs an icon then it probably works	16:51
AStorm	which works, but needs an icon	16:51
AStorm	draw some X and be done with it :)	16:52
Stskeeps	hehe	16:52
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AStorm	and the X buttons in the switcher need to be larger	16:53
AStorm	they're not finger-friendly	16:53
Stskeeps	yeah	16:53
Stskeeps	file a bug or add to wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints/0.13 really	16:53
Stskeeps	my memory is shot so it's better to add it or report it, or noone will pick it up	16:54
lcuk	make some icon so god damned afwul that ppl offer new ones	16:56
lcuk	red background and yellow X or something	16:56
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airtonarantes	I have installed here maemo emulator and I've already tested some apps, but I don't understand why when I call the python interpreter I can't import nothing about gtk or PyQt4(these are installed).But some example that I did works fine. Does anyone here can explain me?	17:06
qwerty12_N800	You're running "python2.5" as opposed to "python"?	17:08
airtonarantes	the imports statements don't work directly on terminal, only when I run the application using "run-standalone ./program.py"	17:08
crashanddie	qwerty12_N800, OH. MY. GOD.	17:08
qwerty12_N800	lol, hi crashanddie	17:10
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zeev	Hi, will the new Nokia tablet be able to connect with GPRS and run skype?	17:10
crashanddie	zeev, sure, apparently we'll even be able to use the Apple App Store	17:11
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crashanddie	zeev, it is unsure if RIM will allow access to the Blackberry app store though, so we're still negotiating on that	17:12
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crashanddie	zeev, finally, because of Lex Nokia, we've now been able to pinpoint that a fair percentage of Nokia employees believe in Santa (being in Finland and all), so the next version of the devices will only work within the arctic circle	17:13
Stskeeps	deep sarcasm there :P	17:13
crashanddie	ya think?	17:14
crashanddie	:P	17:14
airtonarantes	qwerty12_N800: great success, it works very well with python2.5, thank you very much	17:15
lcuk	until the upgrade to python 2.6 comes out	17:18
thux	personally i didn't understand all the noise about lex nokia	17:18
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lcuk	personally i didnt hear too much noise about it	17:19
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thux	i was in sendmail post list long time a go and common question was howto cc boss every mail sent out	17:20
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thux	probably now all postfix and exim admins has samekind of configs	17:22
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crashanddie	qwerty12_N800, so, when you coming off age? Might be time for us to catch that beer, don't ya think?	17:23
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qwerty12_N800	crashanddie: lol, about 1 year & 6 months	17:24
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crashanddie	dayum	17:25
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AStorm	Stskeeps, seems like vkb is ignoring the keyboard_available setting	17:31
AStorm	and is always show	17:31
AStorm	*shown	17:31
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AStorm	how do I disable this useless PoS	17:31
AStorm	also, the xkb applet doesn't work	17:32
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Stskeeps	AStorm: edit /usr/bin/start-hildon and remove hildon-input-method.	17:33
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AStorm	mhmmm, so it's a script :)	17:35
Firebird	Does anyone know the forced window size in hildon (windowed mode)?	17:35
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airtonarantes	Folks, I'm with a problem using pyqt to do a simple app. please, see http://pastebin.com/m725cc69d . What's wrong?	17:36
qwerty12_N800	Firebird: around 720x435	17:37
Firebird	thanks	17:37
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Meizirkki	fremantle will have Opera based browser?	17:46
Stskeeps	eh? :P	17:46
Meizirkki	There is "X-OperaSkin=default.zip" in their index.theme	17:47
Stskeeps	ah, that's a leftover from 2007 times	17:47
Stskeeps	well, or 2006	17:47
Meizirkki	okay	17:47
Stskeeps	there -used- to be opera	17:47
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AStorm	Stskeeps, hmm, matchbox is broken	17:49
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AStorm	I get in some places a dialog to allow access to my keyring	17:49
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AStorm	and stupid matchbox places previous dialog windows on top of it	17:50
AStorm	and there's no way to access that window	17:50
Stskeeps	aware of it, -- feel free to write it down	17:50
Stskeeps	somewhere, so we can pick up on it :)	17:50
AStorm	I'm not much into writing - feel free to copy and paste	17:51
Stskeeps	mm	17:51
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slonopotamus	lazy :P	17:52
lcuk	astorm u know more about issues and its better if described by you, Stskeeps will tell you where, you paste it in	17:52
AStorm	that I can do... :P	17:53
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* xnt is thinking of setting up a linuxmce setup because maemo has an orbiter app :)		18:01
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Macer	hm	18:52
Macer	i wonder why this xforwarding is going so slow over my phone	18:52
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lcuk	the electrons have trouble moving down curly phone wires	18:56
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lcuk	u need to straighten the wire	18:56
Macer	or the xserver on the macbook is set to too high of a color? :)	18:56
Macer	heh	18:56
Macer	and it's a cell ;) no curly phone lines on it	18:57
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Macer	but it's seriously going slow as shit ... don't know why	18:57
Macer	everything else is going an ok speed	18:58
lcuk	is it normally so slow?	18:58
Macer	i honestly never really used it over the cell before	18:58
Macer	goes fast enough over wifi	18:58
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Macer	the cell gives me like 90K/s so have no idea what is slowing it down like that	18:58
Macer	plus i'm typing in the same ssh screen with no lag	18:58
Macer	strange	18:58
Macer	wtf	19:00
Macer	ugh. i just need to change one thing :)	19:00
Macer	piece of shit heh... ah well.. i'll just do it when i get home. guess it isn't that serious	19:00
Macer	i should have opened up this port a long time ago... whatever.. i'm going to head home. later	19:01
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Macer	blah. this is starting to get on my damn nerves	19:27
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Macer	i will just have to wait til i get home... grrr	19:27
Macer	i figured 90K/s would be fast enough for ssh xforwarding	19:28
Macer	GUESS NOT	19:28
ShadowJK_	hah	19:28
ShadowJK_	It depends on the app	19:28
Macer	was trying ff	19:29
Macer	heh	19:29
ShadowJK_	IME QT doesn't do as much extra pointless crap so it works better over slow links	19:29
ShadowJK_	Yeah, ff is really terrible	19:29
ShadowJK_	konqueror is better iirc	19:29
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Macer	konqueror is almost as bad as opera	19:29
Macer	:)	19:29
Macer	i need something to work with actual java support	19:29
ShadowJK_	I haven't tested opera over slow X, but it's probably not as bad as ff	19:30
Macer	i'm sure it's not... but i need something that actually works with ajax	19:30
ShadowJK_	speaking of java, ff consistently failed on that for me today	19:31
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ShadowJK_	Like, I could switch windows, and it'd redraw them, and the java applet was running okay, but firefox ignored all other UI input...	19:31
ShadowJK_	This was kinda new	19:31
Macer	well.. maybe i can use opera just to set up the port	19:31
Macer	i just need to get on a local browser to change the nat of my router	19:32
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ShadowJK_	You'd be better off using vnc on that slow a connection really	19:32
Macer	yeah i know.. but vnc isn't encrypted	19:32
ShadowJK_	neither is X	19:32
Macer	it is when ssh forwarding pkts	19:33
ShadowJK_	same for vnc	19:33
Macer	you mean run vnc in ssh? :)	19:33
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ShadowJK_	eh?	19:33
Macer	you said X isn't encrypted	19:33
ShadowJK_	ssh gives you encrypted pipe	19:33
ipndrmath	Sorry to interrupt. What is better for speed and reliability: Placing OS2008 of my N810 on the internal 2G memory or a 8G Class 6 microSDHC card?	19:34
ShadowJK_	you can forward arbitrary ports over ssh	19:34
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ShadowJK_	so with -L 5900:localhost:5900 then connecting to the local localhost 5900 would make sshd on the remote host connect to the remote host's localhost ;-)	19:34
Macer	that's kind of ghetto :)	19:35
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Macer	opera is going slow too.. i guess it's just an overall xfowarding thing	19:36
ShadowJK_	It's slow even over wlan :)	19:37
Macer	then again i'm doing this on a macbook so there is probably something jacked up with the osx xserver	19:37
ShadowJK_	on gigabit it's approaching usable	19:37
Macer	no	19:37
Macer	wifi is ok	19:37
Macer	not bad at all.. but over my damn cell it's killing me	19:37
ShadowJK_	X is too fast so developers don't notice if they do stupid things :)	19:37
Stskeeps	latency is bigger on cell afaik	19:37
Macer	it's not lagging talking on irc too badly?	19:38
Macer	:)	19:38
Macer	and i'm ssh'd to the same box using irssi... you can hardly notice the lag	19:38
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ShadowJK_	yeah well, 3 vs 30 vs 300ms isn't noticeable over ssh	19:39
Macer	i suppose i will just set up vnc on it for now	19:39
ShadowJK_	but it's noticeable of GTK doees something stupid that requires 300 round-trips to X	19:39
ShadowJK_	if*	19:39
ShadowJK_	NX might be able to remove some of those roundtrips, but I wouldn't want to use NX on highlatency either :)	19:40
ipndrmath	Okay. I'm going to multi-task. So if anyone has an answer to my question please call out to me, i.e. ipndrmath:	19:40
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Macer	which is pointless now because i can't set up the port forwarding to get to the box because i need to use a local web browser :)	19:41
Macer	looks like i'm really stuck til i get home	19:41
ShadowJK_	huh you've already got ssh	19:41
ShadowJK_	you can port forward through that	19:41
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Macer	yeah i suppose... blah... i'm too lazy now .. i'm at work and i want to walk around a bit	19:42
Macer	:)	19:42
Macer	i'm falling asleep	19:42
ShadowJK_	ipndrmath, if I would want to find that out, I'd run iozone with a dataset twice of four times as big as RAM, concentrating on the 4K random read and random write performance. The "Class 6" stuff is only specified for sequential write speed, which says nothing about random read/write speed, which has more of an impact on general OS use :)	19:43
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Stskeeps	jeremiah_: idea: tests in maemian that shows the package has a strong reliance on being built in scratchbox	19:45
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Stskeeps	for example links to /scratchbox in the source package, etc	19:45
ipndrmath	ShadowJK_: Hmm okay. Darn, I thought it would be an easy answer. Do you have an idea as to where the results may lean? Thanks for your help.	19:49
ShadowJK_	no idea :)	19:50
ShadowJK_	let me see if I can get it compiled on the device though	19:51
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ipndrmath	okay. thanks. There seems to be a repository, albeit chinook, for it	19:52
ipndrmath	debfarm, specifically	19:52
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ShadowJK_	running it now on my Class 6	20:11
ShadowJK_	class 6 microsdhc	20:11
ipndrmath	cool thanks. I don't have my mini adapter yet, So I couldn't run this. Thanks for all your help	20:11
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ShadowJK_	On my N810, 8Gbyte Class 6 microsdhc, 128M test file, 4K record size. Sequential write: 6135 Sequential read: 6423 Random read: 2029 random write: 791	20:21
ShadowJK_	(kbyte/s)	20:21
ipndrmath	okay. Could you run it on the internal 2g card? Do smaller numbers mean quicker?	20:22
ShadowJK_	smaller is slower	20:24
ShadowJK_	Yeah I'll run it on internal	20:24
ShadowJK_	it just takes some time to run	20:24
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ipndrmath	That was a stupid question after you told me kbyte/s, sorry	20:25
ipndrmath	Thanks	20:25
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PowerGrid	hi	20:26
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ipndrmath	hi	20:27
PowerGrid	has anyone encountered hildon-input-method running hot on diablo lately?	20:27
ipndrmath	I haven't noticed, but I haven't been looking. Hot as in heavy CPU?	20:28
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ipndrmath	*CPU Load	20:28
PowerGrid	ipndrmath yes two processes one running at 90% or higher	20:29
ipndrmath	No, I haven't. Does it lag up your machine	20:30
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PowerGrid	yes I have to go kill it to make the system useable and prevent battery usage	20:31
PowerGrid	unneccessary battery usage	20:31
Dantonic	Is there such a file as 'fstab' in ubuntu for os2008 where someone could permanently mount a network location?	20:32
PowerGrid	dantonic i haven't loaded ubuntu on os2008 but there should be ... however	20:33
ipndrmath	Oh. Have you been screwing around at all on that level?	20:33
PowerGrid	if your start-up scripts do not call mount -a or mount -T nfs -a then it does nothing for you	20:33
Dantonic	PowerGrid, no, what i meant is just on maemo is there such a file, i don't have ubuntu installed on the nit, i'm just looking for a way to permanently mount a network location	20:34
PowerGrid	let me check	20:34
qwerty12	~lart diablo autobuilder	20:35
* infobot eats diablo autobuilder and falls over dead		20:35
Dantonic	?	20:35
qwerty12	An annoyance of mine	20:35
PowerGrid	dantonic so it does exist as a file and you should be able to update it	20:36
PowerGrid	however check /proc/filesystems to see if the kernel can handle nfs or smbfs or cifs	20:36
Dantonic	where is it located?	20:37
PowerGrid	/etc/fstab	20:37
Dantonic	ah kk	20:37
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PowerGrid	but let me check which rc script neeeds to be update to make it work though	20:38
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Dantonic	powergrid, how can i edit it from the command lline? what's the call to open it with leafpad?	20:39
PowerGrid	i haven't used leafpad i normally use vi from busybox	20:40
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PowerGrid	so i would run vi /etc/fstab	20:40
yerga	qwerty12, thanks for the post on -developers	20:40
Dantonic	i suck at vi, is there a way i could make leafpad open it?	20:41
yerga	qwerty12, I have been three days waiting for a package	20:41
PowerGrid	dantonic I don't see why not	20:41
qwerty12	yerga: 3 days! :(	20:41
qwerty12	I'm waiting for the python-vte bindings to be transferred >.<	20:42
PowerGrid	how ever i'm not sure if you load leafpad manually that you'll be able to edit the file you need root access to modify it	20:42
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Dantonic	powergrid i suck at linux just trying to figure out the command. 'leafpad /etc/fstab' doesn't work	20:43
ipndrmath	ShadowJK_ : Any word?	20:44
PowerGrid	do a which leafpad to see where it is	20:44
ShadowJK_	not yet	20:44
ipndrmath	Hmm... well if the time is any indication, I'm guessing the Class 6 will be faster	20:45
ipndrmath	*time to complete	20:45
Dantonic	powergrid it's in usr/bin/	20:45
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PowerGrid	so try /usr/bin/leafpad /etc/leafpad	20:45
PowerGrid	but if you're in root you may not be able to start the app as X may not permit you	20:46
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Dantonic	ah that's what it was, i got out of root and 'leafpad /etc/fstab' worked.	20:48
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Dantonic	thanks!	20:48
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qwerty12_N800	'run-standalone.sh leafpad /etc/fstab' to run it as root BTW	20:49
PowerGrid	dantonic no problem	20:49
Dantonic	ok ty	20:49
Dantonic	now if i specify a windows network location i have to include 'cifs' in the command right?	20:50
ShadowJK_	ipndrmath, Oh I haven't started the test on internal yet	20:51
ShadowJK_	I'm running with record sizes 4 to 512k to see how much faster it is with more sequential access	20:51
PowerGrid	dantonic yes ... but also make sure it is loaded in the kernel	20:52
ShadowJK_	Starting on internal now :)	20:52
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Dantonic	What's the command to reload fstab without rebooting?	20:52
Dantonic	oh powergrid how do i make sure it's loaded?	20:52
PowerGrid	cat /proc/filesystems	20:53
Dantonic	powergrid, hmm cifs is not loaded, but why is my filemanager sometimes able to recognize that windows partition anyway? is it using a different file system?	20:56
Dantonic	ah, when i do a mount i see it is currently loading it as tmpfs	20:57
PowerGrid	i think it's using upnp	20:57
ShadowJK_	On my N810, internal mmc, 128M test file, 4K record size. Sequential write: 6100 Sequential read: 7510 Random read: 2018 random write: 978	20:58
ipndrmath	OH! so the Internal is quicker?	21:00
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ipndrmath	for write anyway	21:00
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ShadowJK_	hm	21:02
ShadowJK_	I'd say it's too close to mean anything :)	21:02
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ipndrmath	True.	21:02
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ShadowJK_	I'd clone to internal	21:02
ShadowJK_	and keep the card swappable	21:02
ipndrmath	Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Cool.	21:02
ShadowJK_	this is with hispeed mmc kernel btw	21:02
Dantonic	heh won't let me save over the old fstab	21:03
ShadowJK_	though I hadn't locked cpu speed :/	21:03
ipndrmath	hispeed mmc kernel?	21:03
ShadowJK_	http://intr.overt.org/blog/?p=71	21:03
ipndrmath	Hmm... do you suggest I patch?	21:04
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ipndrmath	Okay. Well anyway. Thank you ShadowJK_ for your help and the link to the custom kernel. I'll consider it.	21:08
Stskeeps	hmm, does the maemo statusbar go right to left?	21:08
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ShadowJK_	yeah	21:09
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RST38h	AStorm: here?	21:30
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jeremiah_	Hey qwerty12_N800	21:46
Stskeeps	lo jeremiah_ :)	21:46
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: Hi 'keeps? How is everything?	21:46
jeremiah_	/'keeps?/'keeps!/	21:46
qwerty12_N800	Hi jeremiah_, was in the process of typing a reply but IRC may be faster :P :)	21:46
Stskeeps	sts ;)	21:47
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: :)	21:47
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: well, good - doing some homework and rather surprised over https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-mid-karmic-use-mer - but it will hopefully bring quality packages to all of us	21:47
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jeremiah_	Stskeeps: You rock.	21:47
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: That just proves it.	21:47
Stskeeps	and i'm also absolutely crap at packaging :>	21:48
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: Ubuntu is basing its MID strategy on your work?	21:48
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: (that does not imply that Mer would be a ubuntu project, but more like working on common packages and packaging)	21:48
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: Dude, quit school, call Canonical, get some money for your work.	21:48
jeremiah_	:)	21:48
jeremiah_	Actually, don't quit school.	21:48
jeremiah_	School is good.	21:49
Stskeeps	i would fail the first packaging exaxm	21:49
qwerty12_N800	jeremiah_: thank you for reindexing the packages, the autobuider usually runs awesomely - maybe it just got used to the Finnish holiday :)	21:49
Stskeeps	exam	21:49
Stskeeps	:P	21:49
jeremiah_	qwerty12_N800: Sorry it broke. :( I think there is something seriously wrong since this is the second time in about four days.	21:49
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: There are no packaging exams!	21:50
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: You make it up as you go along.	21:50
jeremiah_	qwerty12_N800: I am going to bring this up at the sprint - the autobuilder cannot eat source packages.	21:50
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: and i just compiled my first Maemo kernel + modules today with OBS, so that's neat :>	21:51
Stskeeps	and compiling the openmoko kernel right now	21:51
jeremiah_	Holy shit, very cool.	21:51
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jeremiah_	But isn't Openmoko dead?	21:52
zecrazytux	hi	21:52
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: they still sell but not develop sw	21:52
zecrazytux	I've installed espeak on my n810, but I cannot get any sound... did anyone tried ?	21:52
zakkm	you guys heard of wolfram alpha?	21:52
qwerty12_N800	jeremiah_: heh, I just hope python-vte source packge is there, it took me time to seperate that one from vte :) - but a massive thank you for your responiveness	21:53
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: http://goshawknest.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/maemomer-on-freerunner-half-ported/	21:53
jeremiah_	zakkm: Wolfram is a software development company - they created Mathematica.	21:53
jeremiah_	zakkm: Google is your friend.	21:53
zakkm	apparently they are making a search engine	21:53
Stskeeps	.. and google uses linear algebra for their pagerank	21:53
Stskeeps	:P	21:53
zakkm	http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/see_wolfram_alpha_in_action_-_video_and_screenshots.php	21:53
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jeremiah_	qwerty12_N800: My pleasure qwerty12_N800, again, I feel a bit responsible being the debmaster and all, but I didn't really build the autobuilder.	21:54
jeremiah_	qwerty12_N800: I will try to get it fixed though.	21:54
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: at least you're the debmaster right now and not dealing with the iTT rebels :>	21:55
qwerty12_N800	Yeah, I just blame it for thinking i can have some R&R due to the Finnish holiday :D	21:55
qwerty12_N800	s/ingg i/it/	21:55
jeremiah_	qwerty12_N800: Holiday here in Sweden too.	21:55
jeremiah_	These Scandinavians love their holidays!	21:55
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jeremiah_	Stskeeps: iTT rebels - they scare me.	21:56
qwerty12_N800	Hehe, hope it was a good one! :)	21:56
jeremiah_	qwerty12_N800: I worked in the woods all weekend, _very_ Scandinavian!	21:56
jeremiah_	:)	21:56
slonopotamus	'there is gps, gsm, wireless and bluetooth support but i’m not able to test them ATM until we will not solve the GUI issues' wtf?	21:56
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: as in, we get the ui working first, then the tech stuff is more fun :P	21:57
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slonopotamus	huh. i first got wifi working, only then usable gui	21:57
qwerty12_N800	jeremiah_: hehe, mind shipping some over? I need large amounts of paper... :P	21:57
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: ah, i got usbnet working first. priorities	21:58
Stskeeps	:P	21:58
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: also, the pieces for GSM, GPS, etc are already there	21:58
Stskeeps	we just need to integrate them	21:58
slonopotamus	i wonder if there's someone brave enough to make tablets run on newer kernel...	21:58
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: I like your maemian / scratchbox test	21:59
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: solca :P	21:59
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: That makes sense to me.	21:59
Stskeeps	jeremiah_: they are so damn irritating to clean up afterwards :P	21:59
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, who is solca?	21:59
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: nitdroid guy	21:59
zecrazytux	nobody's using espeak (or at least know why it does not work on my n810, without any error) ?	21:59
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, oh	22:00
jeremiah_	Stskeeps: Yeah, any idea like that which makes the packagers life easier I think is worth doing.	22:00
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Stskeeps	jeremiah_: other silly things can be running autoconf when not build-dep on autoconf.. and so forth	22:00
Stskeeps	many funny things to test for	22:00
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Stskeeps	(that's a scratchboxism: people think autoconf is always there, but you can't rely on that Maemo6 will have scratchbox automatically installed, or autoconf provided)	22:01
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Stskeeps	or if you build on other OSes using normal builders, autoconf isn't there unless you build-dep on it :)	22:01
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Stskeeps	but i think we can discuss this further some other time	22:02
Stskeeps	we're building a bunch of Extras packages right now to find the common patterns	22:03
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jeremiah_	Stskeeps: Yes indeed.	22:04
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jpereira	somebody using HP/Ipaq folding keyboard in NXXX?	22:06
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Stskeeps	er, don't they have a properitary port or how was it?	22:07
Stskeeps	at least my ipaq 3630 one does :P	22:07
jpereira	hehe	22:07
qwerty12_N800	jpereira: if it's bluetooth, tried kbdd: http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ ?	22:08
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* RST38h has looked into the monster's eyes today		22:08
Stskeeps	mm?	22:08
Stskeeps	you have flu A? :P	22:08
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RST38h	Given two instructions: mov eax,dword ptr 666 and mov eax,dword ptr ds:666 what will the difference be, you think?	22:08
jpereira	qwerty12_N800: just, i get and try kbdd... but make changes and make patch for optimize the kbdd.	22:08
jpereira	i using now the kbdd and works fine, i think that maybe had other alternative for kbdd. thanks qwerty12_N800	22:10
qwerty12_N800	Ah :)	22:10
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jpereira	qwerty12_N800: the keyboard works in my n800 and my desktop! ;)	22:11
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mikkov_	qwerty12_N800: do you delete your source packages once they are ready? :)	22:23
qwerty12_N800	mikkov_: after I've uploaded... I now see this isn't a good habit... :)	22:24
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mikkov_	you like to live dangerously :)	22:24
jeremiah_	There is a tool in debian that makes new packages out of packages you have already built, so it can be good to keep old packages around.	22:24
jeremiah_	Especially if you are just updaing.	22:24
jeremiah_	One such tool is called uupdate	22:25
qwerty12_N800	lol... I've become too used to hitting shift+delete... :)	22:25
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jeremiah_	heh	22:25
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zecrazytux	I've found that espeak can create a valid wav file, but can't play it (no sound)	22:27
zecrazytux	is there a workaround ?	22:28
qwerty12_N800	I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that python-vte shows up... I plan on using it and i need to reupload it as I fixed the python vte reaper support patch to actually cause the pygtk codegen not to fail...	22:28
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mikkov_	does anybody know if autobuilder configuration problem is causing libgda3 build to fail or if it's something that has to worked around?	22:29
mikkov_	problem is "-L/scratchbox/devkits/apt-https/lib" in linker command	22:30
zecrazytux	what could i use to play a wav file in console ?	22:31
zecrazytux	there is no "aplay" in maemo	22:31
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zecrazytux	gst-launch is the key	22:38
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