IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-05-04

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derftimeless: Just for you, since gcc 4.2 now lets me, I've disabled -Wparentheses via #pragma, so your build system can't possibly get it wrong.00:19
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RST38hmoo derf00:24
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derfRST38h: Un jour, tout le monde mougleras.00:27
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GeneralAntillesLater folks.00:28
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NCommanderHow do I switch the processor from ondemand mode to performance? (I can't find a clear guide on how to do so)00:30
derfecho performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor00:32
RST38hecho ondemand  > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq00:32
NCommanderderf, is that sticky, or do I need to shove it in an init script?00:32
RST38h /scaling_governor00:32
derfNCommander: No, it is not sticky.00:32
RST38hit's not sticky00:32
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NCommanderI'm hoping this will decrease the BT keyboard lag :-/00:35
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RST38hIt will not00:36
NCommander:-/00:37
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RST38hVote on the bug instead and hope Nokia fixes it00:38
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NCommanderRST38h, is the bug in the open bits or the closed bits?00:39
* NCommander might take a whack at fixing it if its in the former00:39
RST38hclosed afaik, but as nobody from nokia has admitted they have a bug, there is no way to say00:40
NCommanderThats lovely00:40
RST38hhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335900:40
RST38hSee how many comments are there and it is still "uncomfirmed"00:41
NCommanderBah00:41
NCommanderI assume that there is no way to downgrade an N810 to OS2007?00:41
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RST38hwhy?00:42
NCommanderOS2007 is unaffected00:42
NCommander(based on Google)00:43
RST38hah00:43
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NCommanderI just wish Maemo was fully free00:46
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RST38h"free" does not guarantee anyone working on it00:56
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ShadowJK_anyone tried to kill the bluetooth powersavigng modes to see if keyboard latency improves?00:57
RST38hHow do you do it?00:58
ShadowJK_unless hciconfig can (really) do it, I guess you prod hcid with magic commands over dbus00:58
RST38hah holy shit...magic dbus commands...00:59
ShadowJK_ah nm people report it with usb keyboards too01:03
fireunRST38h: "open"01:04
RST38hShadow: Yes, it looks more like some problem in the event processing01:04
RST38hhttp://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-88201:06
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lopzhola01:21
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Macerhm. need to set up an httpd01:38
Macerblah01:38
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Shadow__Xi am having trouble getting bluemaemo working any ideas03:14
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Shadow__Xi scan for my n810 in linux using hcitool scan03:24
Shadow__Xit finds it then i do hidd -connect mac address03:24
Shadow__Xand it says host is down03:24
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Shadow__Xanyone?03:28
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Shadow__Xsomeone?03:30
Shadow__Xbluemaemo03:30
Shadow__X?03:30
Shadow__Xqwerty12_N800, you there03:32
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Shadow__Xanyone use bluemaemo?03:48
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lcuki expect vdvsx does03:50
Shadow__Xthey arent here apparently i am having more issues with bluetooth on ubuntu then on the device03:51
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AndrewFBlackhead hurts from working on new minimalist theme03:59
fireunnot enough sugar03:59
AndrewFBlackto much code to looki at03:59
AndrewFBlackbut its coming together fast04:00
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fireunI need to start coding more04:02
fireunbut I'm used to embedded systems, all this ui stuff gives me headaches (:04:02
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Macerhm04:13
Macertrying to find state law regarding shooting someone to death someone breaking into your house :)04:14
Shadow__Xtexas04:14
Macerillinois04:14
Shadow__Xtexas you can do it04:14
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Maceris that the only place? :)04:16
Maceri can't find illinois law regarding something like that happening04:17
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Macerhttp://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+7&ActID=1876&ChapAct=720%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&SectionID=60595&SeqStart=7800000&SeqEnd=9300000&ActName=Criminal+Code+of+1961.04:21
Macerthere it is :)04:21
Macerman you just have to love the internet sometimes04:21
Macersomething like that would have taken forever at a library04:21
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Macerhm04:26
Macerthat law is vague though04:26
Maceri was wondering if you can shoot someone trying to steal your car in IL :)04:26
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Shadow__Xhmm one way to find out is do it04:26
Macerwell. i just always wondered04:27
Maceralthough the law seems rather clear that use of force to protect property from felony (theft) is allowed04:27
luke-jrhigh swappage kills wifi :/04:41
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Shadow__Xi got bluemaemo working04:47
Shadow__Xits awesome04:47
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Macerok. the southpark about pirates is funny05:06
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Macerhitler designed absolutely awesome flat towers05:36
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fireunflat05:45
fireuntowers05:45
fireunflat.05:45
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Bobbeu mean these? http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/05/strange-towers-of-third-reich.html05:49
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alex_mayorga_N80hello06:16
alex_mayorga_N80can anyone help? my n800 is "talking"06:17
alex_mayorga_N80I installed kde and there seems to be some text to speech going on06:18
alex_mayorga_N80how can I stop it?06:18
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alex_mayorga_N80what can it be?06:27
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Snahtare the back/home buttons on the n810 supposed to be backlit?06:33
xnt_Nope06:33
xnt_they aren't06:34
Snahtcool, then it's not broken06:34
xnt_:)06:34
Snahthooray for non-broken stuff06:34
Snahtthanks06:34
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alex_mayorga_N80I finally figured out what made my n800 talk flite on Mauku06:58
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luke-jrany place to download qt mapper source that isn't https?07:30
luke-jror at least one with a curl-happy cert?07:30
zakkmcant use https?07:30
zakkmluke-jr: try with taking the s out07:31
luke-jrit redirects07:32
zakkmoh07:32
zakkmworth a try :)07:32
luke-jrzakkm: wget doesn't like garage's https cert07:32
zakkmcant think of what i did to go around that07:33
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cars__Hello.07:47
radicwhy is the cache of the browser disabled by default?07:50
luke-jrprobably to minimize flash writes07:51
slonopotamusworse :) browser doesn't have on-disk cache at all07:52
luke-jrö07:52
radicluke-jr: why should the amount of flashe writes keept low?07:52
luke-jrradic: because flash has a limited amount of writes before it dies07:53
luke-jrthis is why I use internal flash as a rescue livecd :D07:53
luke-jrand put my real OS on a removable/replacable card07:53
slonopotamuseverything has limited amout of writes before it dies07:54
radicslonopotamus: look at about:config07:54
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slonopotamusradic, and?07:54
radicslonopotamus: there you can enable the cach07:55
slonopotamusyou want to tell me about browser.cache.disk.enable ?07:55
radic+e07:55
radicslonopotamus: right07:55
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slonopotamusradic, well... set it to true and tell me what changed07:56
radicI think a symlink to a cache-dir on my sd-card is a good idea07:57
radicslonopotamus: the pages are loaded faster07:57
slonopotamusradic, okay, and where are they stored?07:57
radici think on the internal flashe07:58
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slonopotamusdo not guess, check it :)07:59
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slonopotamuscorrect answer is: microb doesn't store pages in disk cache at all :)08:02
tank-manits cached on the server on the other side of the internet :)08:03
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RST38hthere is a big boss on the other side of the internet08:07
RST38hyou need to beat him to get out08:07
luke-jri c08:07
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LiraNunawhat does the full screen button corresponds   to in a keyboard? F11?08:21
tank-manf608:21
LiraNunaany reason behind it? (just curious)08:23
* Stskeeps yawns08:23
StskeepsLiraNuna: probably easy implementation08:24
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LiraNunahow can I get 24h clock in N810W?09:16
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zakkmliranuna: give me a sec, let me check09:17
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zakkmLiraNuna: dont believe you can, just double checking09:18
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LiraNunazakkm, are you serious?09:18
zakkmis there a reason you would need?09:18
LiraNunaI dislike the AM/PM system?09:19
zakkmim no expert, but as far as i know you cant, and im looknig through now trying to find 24h09:19
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luke-jrI dislike the 24 hour system09:19
luke-jrgive me 16 hex-hour days -.-09:20
LiraNunahttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303 says fix09:20
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zakkmQuoting the UI designer: "In Fremantle there will be a GCONF value for the time09:21
zakkmdisplay setting that apps can read."09:21
zakkmLiraNuna: that means the next version of maemo, in like summertime will support 24h09:21
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LiraNunanext version of maemo won't run on N8x0 though09:23
slonopotamusLiraNuna, time to look at other distros for your tablet :)09:25
zakkmexactly, so its up to mer, but according to that, right now there is no way to have 12h.09:25
zakkmahh 24h09:25
zakkmeven though it says fix, it doesnt necessary mean fixed09:25
LiraNunaslonopotamus, I know, mer doesn't look too good atm (I know it's alpha)09:26
zakkmslonopotamus: how goes gentoo?09:26
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zakkmLiraNuna: its not so much that mer doesnt look too good, its the window manager/UI i would say09:26
qwerty12_N800Doesn't that bug say that you can change the locale (or rebuild posix-locales) too?09:26
LiraNunaI'm not a fan of hildon at all, tbh09:26
zakkmqwerty12_N800: i must of missed that, but even if you did, locale doesnt control 24h/12h does it?09:27
LiraNunaN810 has so much potential, and most of the HW is closed source..09:27
zakkmqwerty12_N800: that would also mean that the clock applet and stuff would have to show in 24h too09:27
zakkmqwerty12_N800: locale might only make "date" show 24h09:27
qwerty12_N800zakkm: it does. LC_Time var. and all09:27
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zakkmqwerty12_N800: let me read it again, seems alot of people commented09:28
slonopotamuszakkm, perfect :) i got on-screen keyboard :)09:28
qwerty12_N800large statusbar  clock has an option for 12hr mode, independent of locale09:28
zakkmslonopotamus: how nice? :D09:28
radicqwerty12_N800: is for os2008 a replacement for the volumecontrole available?09:28
zakkmwhats wrong with volume control?09:28
slonopotamuszakkm, a little quirky, but definitely usable09:29
qwerty12_N800radic: advanced-backlight?09:29
zakkmis the tablet running alsa?09:29
zakkmor oss?09:29
slonopotamusalsa09:29
slonopotamusforget oss09:29
slonopotamusit's history :)09:29
zakkmthere could be alsamixer then , if you want more volume controls09:29
zakkmlike more specifics09:29
zakkmhavent used my tablet in like days before like 10min ago ;p09:30
zakkmslonopotamus: what WM/DE you got setup?09:30
radicqwerty12_N800: with that i couldn't control the recording volume09:30
zakkmradic: you see if alsamixer is on the tablet?09:30
zakkmrun from terminal09:30
slonopotamuszakkm, gnome for me, luke-jr installed kde-4.2 on his n81009:30
LiraNunado you think Nokia will deliver OpenGL ES drivers for N8x0 ?09:30
zakkmnever :P09:30
LiraNunaas in, with Maemo 5.0 ?09:30
zakkmmaemo 5 is different hardware09:31
zakkmthat will have opengl drivers09:31
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zakkmbut the n8x0 / nonmaemo 5 . .wont i think09:31
LiraNunano schedule released, eh?09:31
zakkmsummer i think?09:31
zakkmaround09:31
locutuswhy did Nokia never do GL drivers for the 810 anyway?09:31
LiraNunalocutus, "licensing issues" as far as I read09:31
StskeepsLiraNuna: quim's talking to TI this month about mbx drivers09:31
locutusLiraNuna: meh09:32
zakkmslonopotamus: did gnome run okay, do you think kde4 did? that would seem so slow09:32
LiraNunaStskeeps, "talking" in what way?09:32
LiraNunacan we make "donations"09:32
zakkmthere was a forum post on that09:32
zakkmwhats it going to take to get opengl drivers09:32
slonopotamuszakkm, gnome speed is comparable to hildon. a little bit slower, but i didn't perform any optimizations yet.09:32
LiraNunabribe09:32
StskeepsLiraNuna: as in they're still trying to get drivers for n8x009:32
* slonopotamus needs to record some videos09:32
zakkmslonopotamus: seems weird on a tablet though, too small and such09:33
LiraNunaStskeeps, can we donate? (read as bribe)09:33
konttori_Stskeeps, that would be great09:33
zakkmStskeeps: wouldnt that give a huge speed boost in a way, bring for way more things ?09:33
luke-jrzakkm: KDE 4 isn't running ok09:33
slonopotamuszakkm, better than all that 'hildonization' crap09:33
konttori_I've seen the opengl perf on the n810 and it's actually pretty cool09:33
konttori_only thing is tearing which won't disappear09:33
zakkmi want to run fvwm-crystal on tablet i think :D09:34
LiraNunaiPhone uses the same chipset09:34
StsN800zakkm, we'll see09:34
LiraNunait got a PowerVR MBX (lite)09:34
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StsN800LiraNuna, http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28548&highlight=acceleration09:34
LiraNunathe iphone version 1.1.3 has AppleMBX.kext but that got removed on 2.009:34
zakkmtheorically speaking though09:34
slonopotamuszakkm, i don't have manpower to hildonize each & every app i want to use09:34
zakkmX running off 3d support drivers , rather than what i guess is very software rendered09:35
LiraNunathere's also 2D accel, no?09:35
StsN800slonopotamus, we are working on autohildonization too though09:35
zakkmyeah i was about to say09:35
zakkm4 years of maemo? and no autohildonizations by now?09:36
LiraNunawhat's "Freemantle"09:36
zakkmmaemo 509:36
zakkmis called fremantle09:36
* luke-jr is working on anti-hildonization? ;)09:36
tank-manfreeeee09:36
StsN800zakkm, maemo had other focus09:36
slonopotamusStsN800, when you show me hildon running on stock gtk, i'll install ubuntu instead of gentoo on all my machines :)09:36
LiraNunazakkm, thanks09:36
slonopotamusi mean running correctly09:36
StsN800slonopotamus, see ubuntu mobile09:37
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zakkmtheres hildon-desktop x86 and such?09:37
luke-jrslonopotamus: traitor! :<09:37
zakkmhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/x11/hildon-desktop09:37
StsN800their mid is hildon on top of stock gtk09:37
zakkmyoo guys09:37
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StsN800time to install ubuntu, slonopotamus.09:37
zakkmi got a SD adapter stuck in the removable sd slot09:37
zakkmand i cant take it out :(09:38
StsN800tweezer09:38
zakkmtheres no secret way?09:38
StsN800and take out battery09:38
luke-jrI want Hildon-like panel in Qt4 :x09:38
* slonopotamus looks at his tablet, compares it to http://www.ubuntu.com/files/u1/html-small.jpg and doesn't see any similar parts09:38
zakkmtake out battery? what would that do09:38
zakkmany similar parts? joking right? :P09:39
StsN800zakkm, avoid shorting stuff09:39
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StsN800slonopotamus, debian runs hildon on top of stock gtk too09:39
slonopotamusright-click support?09:40
StsN800maybe with gtkstylus. who knows09:40
radic_Linux Nokia-N800-43-7 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Sat May 2 16:04:00 CEST 2009 armv6l unknown09:40
StsN800still, time to install ubuntu.;)09:41
radic_i thought it's omap2, not 1?!09:41
zakkmno09:42
zakkmits not omap1 .. the way you think09:42
LiraNunaso we're stuck at 2.6.21?09:42
zakkmradic: its like 2.6.21-omap .. build 109:42
luke-jr>_<09:42
zakkmradic: not omap1 kernel09:42
luke-jrLiraNuna: I want to get 2.6.30-omap1 working09:42
zakkmi think :D09:42
zakkmwow09:42
zakkmits at 30?09:42
luke-jrzakkm: it's not released yet ;p09:43
LiraNunaluke-jr, what about closed source drivers?09:43
luke-jrbut 2.6.30 saw p54spi+omapfb+omap-alsa hit mainline09:43
LiraNuna:O09:43
luke-jrLiraNuna: closed source drivers are not legal in Linux kernel land, so non-existent here :p09:43
zakkmslonopotamus: hows battery life, on gentoo tablet?09:43
LiraNunawere still using them09:43
LiraNunasound, wifi are closed09:43
luke-jrso in theory 2.6.30 mainline should handle wifi+display+sound09:43
Meiz_n810LiraNuna not wifi09:44
luke-jrat least09:44
LiraNunawifi got opened?09:44
Meiz_n810there's an open driver too09:44
luke-jrMeiz_n810: two09:44
Meiz_n810i think09:44
radic_luke-jr: can the kernelsources from kernel.org be compiled for omap1?09:44
LiraNunaokay my bad09:44
luke-jrradic_: omap is a branch, per definition09:44
zakkmradic_: need a kernel diff09:44
* LiraNuna is still a newbie in the community09:44
LiraNunagot my N810W a week ago09:44
zakkmsweet :D09:44
luke-jrW?09:44
zakkmhow much, curious :)09:44
LiraNunaWiMAX09:44
luke-jrI thought those were stopped production O.o09:45
LiraNunayeah :D09:45
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zakkmcheap?09:45
LiraNuna470$09:45
LiraNunanew in box sealed09:45
luke-jr>_<09:46
luke-jrwhy?09:46
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LiraNunabecause SF is getting 2.5GHz WiMAX in ~6 months09:46
luke-jrWiMAX is worth $270 to you?09:46
luke-jri c09:46
zakkmwhatt09:46
zakkmn810 is worth $200?09:46
LiraNunayes09:46
LiraNuna210$09:46
LiraNunalast time I checked09:46
luke-jrzakkm: that's what i got mine for09:46
zakkmdamnn09:46
zakkmi should sell my n800 and buy a n81009:47
slonopotamusStsN800, please don't call a thing with 2.6mb patch "stock gtk".09:47
LiraNunahttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858618003&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Ultra+Mobile+PC-_-Nokia-_-5861800309:47
slonopotamusand grepping http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gtk+2.0/gtk+2.0_2.16.1-0ubuntu2.diff.gz for "hildon" shows up many interesting results.09:47
zakkmslonopotamus: hildon isnt just for the tablet.09:47
slonopotamusdamn, that's 10% of all gtk patched09:48
luke-jrHAHAHA09:48
LiraNunaanyone knows if we can get webkit+V8 working ?09:48
zakkmcan the tablet run ubuntu mid? :P09:48
slonopotamus++#ifdef MAEMO_CHANGES09:48
zakkmLiraNuna: Use Tear browser.09:48
LiraNunaV8 has an ARM6 port, it does javascript dynarec09:48
slonopotamusperfect09:48
LiraNunazakkm, tear?09:49
zakkmLiraNuna: webkit browser, designed just for tablet, by bundyo09:49
LiraNunawhat about JS? does it use V8?09:49
zakkmhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=281889#post28188909:49
zakkmno idea, but in maemo, its the best your get09:49
LiraNunahttp://code.google.com/p/v8/09:49
zakkmcould use firefox mobile?09:49
LiraNunaARM :)09:49
zakkmi know what v8 is09:50
zakkmbut im thinking towards tablet09:50
LiraNunateblet got ARM09:50
zakkmv8 isnt that fast?09:50
zakkmnewest webkit beats it i believe09:50
LiraNunaV8 is a dynamic recompiler09:50
LiraNunaoh wow, really?09:50
LiraNunadoes it dynarec?09:50
luke-jrzakkm: even on ARM?09:50
zakkmim thinking x8609:51
LiraNunaV8 does dynamic recompilation on ARM09:51
slonopotamusluke-jr, what's so funny?09:51
luke-jrI don't like x86 ;p09:51
zakkmx86_64 .09:51
luke-jrslonopotamus: nothing?09:52
zakkmlol what tablet do you use? :P09:52
slonopotamus<luke-jr> HAHAHA09:52
zakkmahh09:52
zakkmdesktop09:52
slonopotamus:)09:52
luke-jr[01:48:04] <slonopotamus> damn, that's 10% of all gtk patched09:52
slonopotamusluke-jr, well... i had to protect gentoo :)09:52
zakkmlol09:52
zakkmslonopotamus: you try fvwm-crystal on it?09:52
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slonopotamusstill, 2.6mb patch is insane. the whole app i'm currently developing @ work is less :)09:53
zakkmif i had n810, gentoo would seem cool but i dont ;p09:53
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slonopotamuszakkm, wtf is fvwm-crystal?09:53
slonopotamusgoogling09:53
LiraNunahttp://sideshowbarker.net/2009/04/02/webkit-arm-jit/ < okay, nvm09:53
zakkmtransparent fvwm desktop09:54
zakkmwindow manager based on fvwm09:54
zakkmhttp://www.fvwm-crystal.org/screenshots/wallpapers.jpg09:54
zakkmmuch customizable09:54
slonopotamuswon't software transparency be slow?09:54
zakkmits lighter than fluxbox09:54
zakkmdont know about disk usage, cause it pulls in alot of stuff09:55
zakkmbut system resources its less09:55
zakkmgot my tablet wanting to put that on ;p09:55
luke-jrWe did measurements on a Nokia N810, and we gained 13% performance improvement. The memory consumption is increased by 3.3% which is a small trade-off for this performance improvement.09:55
luke-jrFAIL09:55
luke-jrmemory is FAR more important IMOP09:55
luke-jrIMO*09:55
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slonopotamusdisk usage isn't a problem.09:55
zakkmluke-jr: of what?09:55
zakkmslonopotamus: it has mpd/xmms builtin, uses rox-filer for file browser09:56
thuxmorning09:57
luke-jrzakkm: WebKit ARM JIT09:57
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zakkm;p09:57
LiraNunaluke-jr, memory increased by 3%, this isn't a lot09:58
LiraNunaassuming this is for code execution buffers09:58
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luke-jrLiraNuna: the N810 is already very short on memory09:59
luke-jrLiraNuna: I'm seriously considering getting compcache (memory compression) on it09:59
LiraNunahow short?09:59
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LiraNunadeblet with gnome used 77MB10:00
luke-jrGentoo with KDE 4.2 is pushing it10:00
luke-jrif I run Marble, I'm pretty sure I go over10:00
zakkmwow not bad10:00
zakkm77mb?10:00
LiraNunazakkm, that's what it reported10:00
qwerty12luke-jr: compcache has been done and the tablet likes to restart with it runnning10:01
qwerty12s/runnning/running/10:01
infobotqwerty12 meant: luke-jr: compcache has been done and the tablet likes to restart with it running10:01
zakkmcompcache crashes it.10:01
luke-jrqwerty12: oh, interesting10:01
LiraNunathat was a special gnome with 'stripped down' environment10:01
zakkmqwerty12: was that just maemo though, or was it tried in mer?10:01
luke-jrI suspect latest kernel+compcache may help10:01
qwerty12zakkm: doesn't matter, it's a kernel problem10:01
LiraNunabut had totem, nm-applet, file-roller, gedit, evince...10:01
LiraNunaI had to optimize the panels, since some of the applets such as trash-applet take 4.4MB for nothing10:02
LiraNunaso I just replaced it with a launcher to trash:// :D10:02
luke-jrXD10:02
LiraNunawhich now took a good 4k memory :)10:02
Stskeepsso, uh10:03
Stskeepsdid you see one of those SmartQ 5 MIDs?10:03
zakkmliranuna: kill gnome panel .. and run xfce-panel .. would use less :P10:03
LiraNunazakkm, 77MB was nice10:03
zakkmor even lxde panel10:03
LiraNunamy problem was wireless not working10:03
LiraNunanm-applet says no networks found10:03
zakkmdeblet is really old though ;10:03
LiraNunaI know10:04
LiraNunastill works10:04
zakkmthought you just got your tablet?10:04
zakkmyou recently tried deblet?10:04
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LiraNunaa week ago10:04
zakkmmer would of performed better :P10:04
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zakkmor ubuntu n8x010:04
LiraNunazakkm, mer performed horribly slow compared to gnome10:04
zakkmno10:05
zakkminstall mer, than apt-get gnome10:05
LiraNunagnome was nice and fast, almost as fast as hildon10:05
LiraNunazakkm, I believe Stskeeps said it's problematic10:05
zakkmcant be worse than deblet, i would think10:05
Stskeepszakkm: some GTK conflicts10:05
zakkmfrom patched gtk?10:06
zakkmbut then how does b-man do it?10:06
Stskeepshe doesn't pin mer on top10:06
LiraNunaI want to try ubuntu10:06
LiraNunabut I don't have my miniSD adapter yet10:06
zakkmn810's are cool :D10:07
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Stskeepsmy fiancee tells me the exact same box as http://kamleung.com/goodies/q5/index.html is waiting for me at home10:07
zakkmfremantle beta ui/theme looks so cool :D10:07
zakkmnothing aganist your fiancee, but shes lying stskeeps :D10:08
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LiraNunahaha10:11
LiraNunahmm, unable to install libidn11 - incompatible application package10:12
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LiraNunadoes the N8x0 have HFPU or GCC's vFPU?10:15
slonopotamusLiraNuna, http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0/cflags10:16
LiraNunaVFP \o/10:17
LiraNunaI'm used to weak ARMs10:17
LiraNunaARM7TDMI, ARM9v5STE10:17
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LiraNuna"However, there are rumours that some programs break with -Os" only if you don't use volatile in the right way10:18
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qwerty12slonopotamus: march can also be set to arm1136jf-s and I also tend to use -mfloat-abi=softfp too10:19
LiraNunasoft?10:20
LiraNunaif you use softfp, have -ffast-math as well10:20
luke-jrLiraNuna: softfp is an ABI, not actual software ;)10:22
LiraNunasorry, I'm used to lower-level ARM development10:24
LiraNunalike manipulating the ARM's MPU for dynarec emulation of lower level ARMs10:26
LiraNunafuntimes10:26
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wazdHello maemo10:33
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slonopotamusqwerty12, -mfloat-abi=softfp doesn't have any visible effect10:37
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slonopotamusqwerty12, march can, but will it change anything actually?10:38
qwerty12If you're only targeting the N8x0, I can't see it hurting anything10:39
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LiraNunaholy shi- Tear is so friggin fast10:45
LiraNunaonly thing stopping it is the LCD rendering10:45
Stskeepsyeah10:45
LiraNunanow how do I get adblock for it? :D10:47
LiraNunaholy shi- it also supports flash10:48
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LiraNunawhere's the dude[s] that created this and how can I donate him[them]10:49
StskeepsBundyo10:50
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zakkmLiraNuna: hosts file would be better than adblock , performance wise10:53
LiraNunahmm10:54
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LiraNunazakkm, thanks, I didn't thought of that10:54
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LiraNunaI need to mesh the touchscreen for flash to work, hehe10:57
zakkmLiraNuna: i suggest adding qole's repository, so you can use application manager to update tear + libwebkit10:58
zakkmand get notified of updates10:58
LiraNunait's not in extras-devel?10:58
zakkmno10:59
zakkmnot that i know of?10:59
zakkmis it?10:59
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LiraNunawhat's the repo link?10:59
zakkmLiraNuna: goto http://qole.maemobox.org/11:00
zakkmit will tell you11:00
LiraNunaty11:00
zakkmLiraNuna: going to bed, :D have class in just over 5 hours, still in highschool11:03
zakkmhave fun with Tear and maemo learning :)11:03
LiraNunathanks for your help11:03
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* Meiz_n810 wonders what the hell is wrong with us (Finnish people) O_O http://www.google.com/trends?q=goatse&ctab=1986094119&geo=all&date=ytd11:04
LiraNunayou obviously love it11:05
glassMeiz_n810: well, a lot. + goatse is a bucket of fun11:05
LiraNunadon't forget, google is your best friend - if you ask it for goat sex, it'll ask "are the goats on fire?"11:05
locutusLiraNuna: it offers me no such thing :-(11:06
qwerty12Meiz_n810: goatse is jokes11:06
jeremiah_Meiz_n810: I won't click on anything with 'goatse' in the link. Scary.11:07
Stskeepsmorning jeremiah_ :)11:07
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Hello Sir Stskeeps!11:08
jeremiah_How is life in beautiful Denmark?11:09
Stskeepsjeremiah_: i received http://kamleung.com/goodies/q5/index.html  , one of these boxes today :)11:09
jeremiah_Hot form the oven?! :)11:09
Stskeepsfrom i think they meant :)11:10
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: Does it run Mer?11:10
Stskeepsjeremiah_: it will.. :)11:10
jeremiah_heh11:10
Stskeepsit's basically a slightly faster n80011:11
jeremiah_Keep on rockin' Stskeeps!11:11
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Stskeepsand the company is donating two of those to the project and 10 developer rebates, they already run ubuntu so11:11
jeremiah_Hmmm - Are all the developer rebates spoken for? =)11:12
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Stskeepsnot yet, there's no formal process set up11:12
jeremiah_Are they really the size of a business card?11:12
jeremiah_That is tiny.11:12
Stskeepsnah, bigger11:12
jjoeven the full price doesn't seem too bad11:12
Stskeepsi would get a nokia for the quality obviously11:13
Stskeepsbut if i need some random tablet around the house, i'd go for a cheap one11:13
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Of course. And for the community. :P11:13
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Stskeepsand for people liking to experiment it has a capacitive screen11:14
Stskeepsand runs ubuntu already11:14
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jeremiah_Stskeeps: Interesting that they chose Ubuntu, I wonder why.11:15
Stskeepsjeremiah_: no need for a sw department?11:15
jeremiah_Stskeeps: And what are the practical benefits of a capacative screen?11:15
Stskeepsjeremiah_: multitouch for instance afai11:15
jeremiah_Stskeeps: I mean Ubuntu versus debian.11:15
Stskeepsah11:15
Stskeepsmore user friendly? :P11:15
Stskeepsbut yeah, good question11:16
jeremiah_Yeah, maybe that is what they thought.11:16
jeremiah_Maybe they think Ubuntu is more popular.11:16
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Stskeepsor better chinese support11:17
jeremiah_Stskeeps: It would be really interesting to find out - if you ever speak to them, ask them why Ubuntu and not Debian. Though I am sure that might not be the first thing on your list. :)11:17
LiraNunaStskeeps, how big are they?11:17
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Debian is known for its excellent internationalization.11:17
jeremiah_In fact, debian is available in Mongolian and other languages.11:17
StskeepsLiraNuna: http://www.slashgear.com/smartq-5-mid-specs-photos-emerge-just-132-2639014/11:17
jeremiah_So I doubt they chose Ubuntu over Debian because of Chinese language support, but maybe.11:18
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Does it do any type of telephony?11:19
Stskeepsjeremiah_: not a phone, it's a tablet11:19
Stskeepsit's not a competitor for rx-51 for sure11:19
jeremiah_Stskeeps: And does it have proprietary blobs?11:19
Stskeepsjeremiah_: only video codecs as far as i can tell, and libertas wifi firmware11:19
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Wow - pretty open.11:20
Stskeepsbut nothing that is required to use it11:20
jeremiah_cool.11:20
Stskeepsjeremiah_: they'll publish HW design and source code soon they said11:20
jeremiah_Really!?11:20
jeremiah_Amazing.11:20
jeremiah_Stskeeps: That will generate some interest if they follow through.11:20
Stskeepsthey just might11:20
Stskeepsbtw, he commented something i didn't hear of before: I have just noticed companies like Marvell choose maemo as11:21
Stskeepstheir MID/Netbook reference design.11:21
Stskeepsis this anything heard about?11:21
LiraNunahow different is this one from the N800?11:21
StskeepsLiraNuna: no dpad, no buttons than the ones above, bigger battery11:21
Stskeepsmore internal flash11:21
StskeepsSD slot11:21
Stskeepscapacitive screen11:22
LiraNunawhat about chipsets?11:22
Stskeepssamsung armv5 it seems11:22
Stskeepssec11:22
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Do you mean have I heard anything about companies using Maemo as their reference design? No - they keep me in the dark. :)11:23
Stskeepsjeremiah_: ah, if anyone heard11:23
Stskeepsi haven't been able to find anything about it, so it might be an internal chinese thing :)11:23
StskeepsLiraNuna: http://www.slashgear.com/smartq-5-mid-gets-reviewed-let-down-by-poor-cpu-0640122/ has video11:24
LiraNuna"but there’s no Flash or YouTube support" we can fix it right? :)11:25
Stskeepsnow that's a rather murky area and i don't want to give an answer to that :P11:25
Stskeepsgnash should work? :P11:25
jeremiah_LiraNuna: That will be a PITA.11:25
LiraNunahow's Nxx0 flash player different?11:26
LiraNunait's a browser plugin, right?11:26
Stskeepsyeah, and tied to maemo sortof :P11:26
Stskeepsalso, we can't legally copy that :>11:26
jeremiah_LiraNuna: Well, you are starting off with a different CPU.11:26
LiraNunajeremiah_, it's still ARM, we can patch the binary ;P11:27
LiraNunaI know it's 'illegal' but are they REALLY gonna chase us?11:27
jeremiah_LiraNuna: I doubt they well chase you, they might even like it. :)11:27
StskeepsLiraNuna: adobe would probably.11:28
jeremiah_LiraNuna: But how much official support will you get?11:28
jeremiah_I mean, you can hack your machine all you want, but you won't be able to distribute.11:28
jeremiah_So what's the point?11:28
LiraNunahow much official support does the N series get? none11:28
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jeremiah_LiraNuna: Nokia supports the maemo community in a huge way.11:28
jeremiah_They get it.11:29
jeremiah_Sure you may feel it could be more open11:29
jeremiah_but they are bound by agreements that already exist in the marketplace11:29
jeremiah_That they cannot change11:29
LiraNunaI'm new, so I don't really know11:29
jeremiah_LiraNuna: :)11:29
jeremiah_LiraNuna: No biggie - you raise important issues.11:29
jeremiah_LiraNuna: And I apologize if I sound critical, I don't mean to.11:30
lbtLiraNuna: but they have stated that there will be no more 'official' releases of anything for the N8x0s11:30
lbt(you only got a tablet a few days ago didn't you?)11:30
LiraNunaso, that means flash support is deprecated11:30
jeremiah_lbt: But you don't really expect to spend all that money supporting an EOL product do you?11:31
jeremiah_No other company does that.11:31
LiraNunameaning we can do stuff with it and they shouldn't really move anything11:31
LiraNunalbt, last week11:31
lbtjeremiah_ they still sell them ... I expect them to support products they sell11:31
jeremiah_lbt: You have a point.11:31
lbtand I expect them to be supported for a year after they stop selling them11:31
lbtlook at LiraNuna ... tablet less than a week old and it's "EOL"... tough11:32
jeremiah_lbt: Yeah. Not good.11:32
lbtso, tbh, it could be better11:32
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lbtI have an old Nokia phone, the new sync SW still supports it11:33
LiraNunalbt, I know the WiMAX edition is EOL11:33
LiraNunasomeone here said before that 2.6.30 kernel is possible11:33
lbtLiraNuna: nevertheless... it's brand new and I think you're entitled to expect that bug fixes will be at least looked at for a reasonable duration11:34
LiraNunalbt, of course, but I don't really think Adobe will bother11:34
lbthowever a bug report against an N8x0 is met with "WONTFIX" ... eol11:34
LiraNunaheh11:34
lbtso my N800 has the internet phone app11:34
lbtit makes a great SIP handset11:35
lbtbut there is no DTMF11:35
lbtnot worth filing a bug :(11:35
lbtanyhow, it is what it is11:35
lbtand whilst I think it's a poor show11:35
lbtNokia are doing other things which are a lot better :)11:36
lbtthere is support for Mer in many areas11:36
lbtbut it looks like you'll never get to use the internal gps in Mer11:37
jeremiah_lbt: I think using Mer for backwards compatibility is a great idea11:37
jeremiah_lbt: I puts the control in the hands of the community.11:37
LiraNunais the GPS chipset closed-source too?11:37
lbtwell... it also offloads legacy responsibility11:37
lbtGPS->  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=438011:37
jeremiah_lbt: Yes - but that is part of the deal and a realistic expectation.11:38
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lbt<cynical> so Nokia can EOL even sooner and say it's supported via Mer... apart from.....</cynical>11:38
jeremiah_You may argue that it is happening too soon or without enough Nokia support, and you may be right, but it is, in principle, a good thing.11:38
LiraNunableh11:38
jeremiah_At least, so thinks I.11:38
lbtwhat? Mer?11:39
LiraNunagood thing I got this thing for free11:39
LiraNunathat way I can get my wife to get another one :D11:39
lbtwhat? Mer? <- jeremiah_11:39
jeremiah_LiraNuna: When the new one comes out, you will want to give your wife the old one. :)11:40
jeremiah_lbt: Yeah.11:40
Stskeepssome might argue that cutting off life support is a good way to get the community encouraged11:40
LiraNunajeremiah_, I meant, get my wife to agree to get the new one11:40
Stskeepsrage is a good motivator sometime :)11:40
jeremiah_LiraNuna: Heh.11:40
lbthehe ... but futile rage .... ?11:40
jeremiah_Stskeeps: You have a way with words. :)11:40
* lbt has an N800 and a BT gps11:40
LiraNunathe shop that sold the N810W to me delivered the product after 34 days (!) and I already claimed fraud11:41
Stskeepslbt: oh, it's not futile if there's someone ready to facilitate the rage :P11:41
* lbt hopes maemo-mapper can ignore the liblocate stuff and use gpsd11:41
lbtStskeeps: some things we can't reasonably expect to fix ... 3D accel, n810 gps...11:42
lbtI doubt Mer will ever support them11:42
lbtbut we'll see if Nokia continue to open up the HW11:42
lbtit's a journey for them11:42
LiraNunahmm, Tear doesn't seem to pass acid3 test11:43
LiraNunaI get 13/10011:43
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Stskeepslbt: obviously, but you didn't see qgil coming in to talk about it? (he's taking a talk with TI about it this month), and http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283003&highlight=acceleration#post28300311:44
Stskeeps(3d)11:44
Stskeepsgps we'll have to figure out somehow11:44
lbtoh yes11:45
lbtI meant *we* as in not-Nokia11:45
lbtso we can rage all we like .... but it's not enough.... whereas being pissed off at the lack of fingerscrolling in Qt.... I can do something about that <grin>11:46
lbtI'd *really* like to get that into Qt11:47
lbtto demonstrate community feedback11:47
lbtsomething small, but very 'pointable at'11:47
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Stskeeps*nod*11:51
Stskeepsfingerscrolling, pannable area?11:51
lbtyes...11:51
* lbt hates the word kinetic11:51
Stskeepshehe11:52
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* lbt thinks that implies momentum and continued motion/slowing down11:52
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timeless_mbpLiraNuna: you understand that Flash Player for 770/n800/n810 is licensed by Nokia from Adobe, right?12:06
timeless_mbpit's based on the real flash player sources12:06
LiraNunatimeless_mbp, oh wow12:06
LiraNunaso we can't get a newer version?12:06
Stskeepsmorning timeless_mbp12:07
LiraNunait's still stuck on 9.0 r2212:08
timeless_mbpjeremiah_: btw you're unfair, IBM, Sun and Microsoft all support EOLd products (if you *PAY* for a service contract)12:08
timeless_mbpum, you shouldn't have r2212:08
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timeless_mbpyou probably have the buggy misbranded 49 or whatever12:08
timeless_mbpand there's an update to fix that12:08
timeless_mbpyou can either find the official way to get the update12:09
LiraNunaI got the wimax12:09
timeless_mbpit doesn't matter12:09
LiraNuna<- tablet life of 6 days12:09
timeless_mbpsorry it's misbranded 48, not 4912:09
lcukx41o/' mornin12:09
timeless_mbphttp://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/flash-player-r48-0.1.deb12:09
timeless_mbpnote that i haven't tried it on rx4812:09
timeless_mbpbut it should work12:09
jeremiah_timeless_mbp: You got me! :)12:10
timeless_mbpyou really should find the correct way to update to the final released version of the system stack12:10
LiraNunatimeless, thank you, works12:10
timeless_mbpgo to control panel, what does about[product] say?12:11
timeless_mbpLiraNuna: anyway, youtube and friends should stop bothering you about flash for a while12:11
LiraNuna5.2008.43-712:11
* timeless_mbp ponders12:11
timeless_mbpanyone know what the last version is? :)12:11
Stskeepsthat12:11
Stskeeps:P12:11
LiraNunatimeless_mbp, I had flash, just r2212:11
timeless_mbpLiraNuna: what does about:plugins say now? :)12:11
LiraNunar4812:12
LiraNuna<LiraNuna> timeless, thank you, works12:12
timeless_mbpyeah, i figured, but i might as well see output :)12:12
LiraNunaanyone knows anything about the WiMAX chip of the N810W?12:12
Stskeepspc2400m12:12
Stskeepsor something12:12
timeless_mbpi'm sure some of my coworkers do since they work on it :)12:12
timeless_mbpor rather worked on it12:12
timeless_mbpbut :)12:13
LiraNunaStskeeps, not open, right?12:13
StskeepsLiraNuna: i compiled it the other day12:13
Stskeepsso i guess it's open12:13
LiraNuna:O12:13
qwerty12LiraNuna: the source for it is in the kernel12:13
LiraNunaawesome \:D/12:13
qwerty12But the firmware is stored on the initfs which, as you'll have guessed, is not open :)12:13
LiraNunaI think Intel (?) gives the firmware version12:14
timeless_mbphttp://www.brainfall.com/quizzes/which-disney-princess-are-you/12:14
LiraNunahttp://www.linuxwimax.org/Download12:14
Stskeepspossible12:14
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LiraNunasays i2400 but I don't know if it's this one12:14
Stskeepsit's pc2400m so12:14
jeremiah_timeless_mbp: Which Disney princess are you?12:15
Stskeepssnowwhite is my bet12:15
LiraNunabut the firmware is not bound to a kernel right?12:15
timeless_mbpjeremiah_: i've only tried picking the top answer12:15
Stskeepscorrect12:15
timeless_mbpi'm going to actually answer now12:15
LiraNunaso no problem about that right?12:15
* jeremiah_ Waiting on tenterhooks. . .12:15
thuxtenterhooks where is my dictionary12:16
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timeless_mbpJasmine :)12:17
jeremiah_timeless_mbp: I would be shocked if only I knew who Jasmine was. :-/12:17
jeremiah_I guess I will have to take the quiz.12:17
timeless_mbpjeremiah_: um, crawl out from under your carpet12:17
timeless_mbpcome along for a magic carpet ride12:18
lcukx41lol timeless how come theres no disney princesses who spend friday nights drinking beer and coding12:18
timeless_mbpactually... come in out of the desert12:18
timeless_mbplcukx41: not my problem, i chose read a book12:18
* timeless_mbp doesn't drink12:18
lcukx41i am belle - and i dunno who she is lol12:18
Stskeepsbeauty and the beast?12:18
timeless_mbplcukx41: gah12:19
timeless_mbp++Stskeeps12:19
Stskeeps(.. i spent too much time in HS with girls who loved disney songs..)12:19
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timeless_mbpactually i'm not sure if i ever saw the disney version of that start to finish12:19
timeless_mbpbut i still know it!12:19
lcukx41Stskeeps: dont lie, you have all the videos lol12:19
timeless_mbpjeremiah_: did you figure out who jasmine is?12:19
LiraNunamemorized!12:19
jeremiah_timeless_mbp: Not yet, but I found out I am Pocahontas. \0/12:20
timeless_mbpi hope you know who she is12:20
timeless_mbpJasmine is Aladdin's girlfriend12:20
lbtJasmine/Pocahontas12:20
jeremiah_I do know Pocahontas - thank god. :)12:20
LiraNunaJasmine is from Aladin, no?12:20
timeless_mbpbut have you seen the movie?12:20
timeless_mbpLiraNuna: yes12:21
jeremiah_I don't want to be ostracized by everyone here for not knowing about Pocahontas.12:21
timeless_mbp(in the case of Aladdin, i believe there are 3)12:21
lcukx41jeremiah_: there are much worse things in the world12:21
LiraNunag'night all, thanks for being patient with me12:21
timeless_mbpjeremiah_: truth be told, i'd only ostracize Americans for her12:21
LiraNunawonderful community12:21
timeless_mbpthe rest can rightfully claim a certain degree of ignorance12:21
jeremiah_Pocahontas was a real person who played an important role in American history.12:22
timeless_mbpright12:22
jeremiah_So us Americans _ought_ to know about her.12:22
timeless_mbpright12:22
jeremiah_But this Jasmine person . . .12:22
jeremiah_I have an excuse, right?12:22
timeless_mbpfor not knowing enough tales from the Arabian nights?12:22
timeless_mbpnot really12:22
jeremiah_Bummer.12:23
lcukx41did aladin let her rub his lamp?12:23
timeless_mbplcukx41: in movie 2 or 3 i'm pretty sure12:23
timeless_mbpor was there a four?12:23
lcukx41i dunno, who did they cast in the roll? sasha grey?12:23
* jeremiah_ slinks off to Piratebay to find some Disney movies . . .12:24
timeless_mbpheh12:24
qwerty12lcukx41: what sort of Aladdin movies do you watch?12:24
lcukx41i dont12:24
jeremiah_uh oh - I am sensing a shift from childrens films to something more, um, adult.12:24
lcukx41not at all lol12:25
timeless_mbpok, i was right,there were only 312:25
* RST38h moos12:25
* Stskeeps ponders idly how the SmartQ slipped past customs12:26
RST38hAre you talking erotics in Disney animated movies or what?12:26
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StskeepsRST38h: welcome to the internet12:26
Stskeeps:P12:26
qwerty12Stskeeps: threats from the triad12:26
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lcukx41Stskeeps: it arrived with you?12:27
Stskeepslcukx41: yup.12:27
Stskeepsor at least my gf claims so12:27
RST38hFreeBSD 7.2 released. Coolness.12:28
lcukx41nice12:28
lcukx41is it omap3 or still omap2?12:29
Stskeepsit's a samsung chipset12:29
Stskeepsarm still though12:29
lcukx41arm11 or more then?12:29
Stskeepsarm11 yea12:29
Stskeepsdidn't see if it has vfp yet12:29
RST38hSts: Is your customs policy the same as .RU? Can't bring anything in, can't send anything out?12:29
StskeepsRST38h: well normally i get a nice VAT on top and such12:30
RST38hSts: how much is VAT?12:30
StskeepsRST38h: 25% + a silly customs fee12:30
RST38hOh12:30
lcukx41Stskeeps: 25% of what tho12:31
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Stskeepsof the value.. :P12:31
aquatixof the `$60' note on the box ;)12:31
lcukx41but if its not for sale its priceless12:31
RST38hSts: I hope they do not include express service (FedEx,UPS,etc) costs into taxable amount like Russians do though =)12:31
lcukx41lol aquatix thats sorta what im thinking, or the variation where you send an empty box marked up in millions of € :D12:32
RST38hlcukx41: then they keep it for themselves until you come up with 25% of infinity =)12:32
aquatixStskeeps: i read at http://www.umpcfever.com/news/?postid=2225 that the SmartQ is a tad slow12:33
Stskeepssure, but imagine Mer on it?12:33
aquatixhm :)12:33
aquatixgood point12:33
Stskeepsand 1gb internal flash12:34
Stskeeps(i actually have it suspected of being an 1gb internal mmc.)12:34
aquatixwell, knowing samsung it might be regular internal flash12:34
aquatixbut maybe speaking mmc/sd indeed12:34
Stskeepsi'll see when i get it bootin'12:35
Stskeepsi checked out their fw the other day12:35
aquatixheh, it has blueman by default12:35
Stskeepsyeah12:36
Stskeepsthat was actually what inspired me to try out blueman for tablets12:36
aquatixsoftware looks rather ok12:36
Stskeepsit's LXDE afaik12:36
aquatixyeah, blueman is damn nice12:36
aquatixuse it on my laptops too12:36
aquatixor regular xfce maybe?12:36
aquatixor maybe not12:36
Stskeepsit's basically ubuntu/mojo hasty12:37
Stskeeps(8.04)12:37
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aquatixwow 2000mAh battery12:38
aquatixand about the same size screen as the n8x0 right?12:38
Stskeepsthink so12:38
Stskeepsyeah.. and they claim it can drive a EDGE modem too (3g?)12:38
aquatix4.3" if i read well12:38
aquatixedge is gprs++12:38
aquatix2.5G12:38
Stskeepsi'm really looking forward to go home and play with it :p12:38
aquatix:)12:39
lcukx41im so impressed with the n810 battery now - and powersaving on the proper wifi is really cool12:41
Stskeepsbetter than adhoc, eh? ;)12:41
aquatixlcukx41: what did you change then?12:42
lcukx41i finally got a router :)12:42
lcukx41but before then i didnt even consider it - i thought it was fine before, now its super smart and i dont have to remember to dc12:43
lcukx41yeah sts :)12:43
aquatix:)12:43
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GAN800lcukx41, just so you know, I'm going to have to hit you at the Summit. :P12:44
lcukx41no u arent, i cant defend myself12:45
* lcukx41 waves his ET finger at you12:45
GAN800Or maybe shut your other finger in a door. :P12:45
lcukx41we need plenty of beer at the summit :)12:46
* lcukx41 has to have evil nurses changing bandages later12:46
lcukx41i used to look up to nurses, but they are sadists12:47
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* GAN800 looks at bergie's blank email in Modest. <_<12:48
bergieGAN800: what email?12:48
GAN800Sprint scheduling12:48
* GAN800 tries hitting Modest with a stick to no effect.12:48
bergieah, Modest probably didn't like the GPG signature12:49
bergieGAN800: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-community/read/fbd4d782387b11de9bb2094ed741c926c926/12:50
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murrayclcukx41: Was that some new door handle button thing? Maybe I've just been lucky.12:54
GAN800Modest doesn't like sending and receiving email as far as I can tell. ;)12:55
lcukx41murrayc: i dunno, from what i have heard the doors that i got caught on are open by default and arent usually closed12:55
murrayclcukx41: Ah.12:56
murrayclcukx41: Life keeps offering new evidence that "The Design Of Everyday Things" has a point about doors being hard to open due to thoughtless designers.12:56
GAN800bergie, who wants to re-triage Hirvinen's bugs? Alternatively: who do you want ME to reassign them to? ;)12:57
bergieGAN800: we'll do that12:57
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lcukx41indeed murrayc, where i sit in my dayjob i get to overlook a bank, and they just added a new dimension to getting in12:58
lcukx41you have to press a button to unlock the door and open it12:58
lcukx41i watch people every day try to push and force and some give up without finding the butotn12:58
murrayclcukx41: That's customer lock-in.12:58
lcukx41lockout12:58
lcukx41from the inside you just pull12:59
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qwerty12lcukx41: at our nationwide branch here, we have to press a button to get out12:59
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lcukx41maybe it is the same then o_O13:00
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lcukx41i want startreks doors everywhere :D13:00
andradehi, anyone could help me to properly install qt on scratchbox? I got qmake: error while loading shared libraries: libgcc_s.so.1 when executing qmake -project13:01
andradeah... greetings from Brazil :)13:01
lcukx41im just wondering whether i need to file a bugtracker report about the incident13:02
RST38hlcuk: they filter the most stupid clients out this way13:05
RST38hsaves them a fortune on productivity13:05
lcukx41booo13:06
lcukx41or should i say mooo13:06
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RST38hHELO lcukx4113:07
thuxehlo13:08
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lcukx41did anyone watch the finalle of heroes13:11
lcukx41(series)13:11
GeneralAntilleslol Heroes13:14
* timeless_mbp starves13:14
lcukx41GeneralAntilles: was good, what are you watching at the mo13:14
Stskeepslcukx41: i'm so behind after i sat down in an episode and thought it was so incredibly badly written :P13:15
Stskeepswill catch up sometime :P13:15
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lcukx41lol Stskeeps it went through a period of crapola, but this series was much better13:17
GeneralAntilleslcukx41, depressingly enough the last thing I watched (at the insistence of a friend, and it actually turned out to be really excellent--for a kid's show, anyway ;)) was Avatar.13:18
GeneralAntillesThrough to completion, I should say.13:18
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lcukx41havin the kids around i get to see the drivel thats on nowadays13:19
lcukx41thankfully spongbob washes over you after a while13:19
Stskeepsspongebob is awesome. :P13:19
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lcukx41yes but in small doses13:20
GeneralAntilleslcukx41, there are a few gems every once and a while.13:20
lcukx41of course, same as anywher13:20
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GeneralAntillesI think I had a better-than-usual selection of children's programming when I was young, though.13:20
lcukx41that was about 1/2 hour ago wasnt it?13:21
GeneralAntilles:P13:21
lcukx41heh13:21
GeneralAntillesJudging by the fact that I just finished a Nickelodeon show, maybe. ;)13:21
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping?13:21
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bergieGeneralAntilles: I'm also looking for X-Fade :-)13:24
bergiewe need to discuss brainstorm deployment13:24
GeneralAntillesbergie, poor bastard's probably still sleeping off the website deployment. :D13:24
bergie:-)13:25
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bergieGeneralAntilles: I just hope he wakes up before the meeting tomorrow so we can still launch it13:27
GeneralAntillesI wonder if the Nokia DNS people ever added t.m.o13:28
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lcukx41mornin mgedmin o/'  thanks for your comments13:36
mgedminhi, lcukx4113:36
mgedminfrom your nickname I assume you've got yourself a nice thinkpad?13:36
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lcukx41i got this at christmas, i just dont usually sit in bed13:37
GeneralAntillesbergie, oh, right, X-Fade's on the town in Amsterdam with Quim and Kees today.13:37
bergieaha, ok13:38
bergiewell, then we'll try to do the deployment tomorrow before the meeting13:38
* GeneralAntilles gets out of bed.13:38
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lcukx41mgedmin: its the first laptop i can actually call a laptop, all others have been frankenmachines with dead batteries of knackered whatever bits, this one just works most of the time13:43
mgedminthinkpads are nice13:44
lcukx41ubuntu on the whole works with it13:44
mgedminubuntu is getting nicer and nicer (but still buggy)13:44
lcukx41dont mind buggy, its the direction its going, for a desktop os its satisfactory13:45
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mgedminmost satisfactory13:45
lcukx41cant use the touchscreen with it too well tho, its too routed in mousing paradigm to be comfortable13:45
lbthow does maemo mapper talk to a BT gps ? anyone know?13:45
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mgedminlbt: there's this maemo platform library for communicating with gpses, I believe13:45
lcukx41lbt, it opens a socket doesnt it13:46
lbtugh, it uses the nokia lib to talk over BT to a 3rd party GPS?13:46
mgedminmaybe13:46
Stskeepslibgpsbt? :P13:47
mgedminI mean, there's this feature where you can choose "bluetooth" and leave the bt address empty and get it to talk to the n810's internal gps13:47
* lbt gets the source13:47
Stskeepsclosed source afaik13:47
mgedminwhich makes me think it's using the library instead of opening an RFCOMM socket13:47
mgedminmaemo mapper is GPL13:47
mgedminlibgpsbt is not13:47
lbtyep...13:47
* lbt thinks of Mer13:47
lbtand losing MM :(13:48
mgedminah13:48
Stskeepslbt: we have maemo-mapper ported already13:48
Stskeepsi disabled the GPS :P13:48
mgedminouch13:48
lbtyeah, great :{13:48
Stskeeps(yes, i know)13:48
mgedminactually, not ouch13:48
* lbt looks at gpsd13:48
* lcukx41 got banned from google maps the other day :$13:48
mgedminI use maemo mapper more often as a map application, the n810's gps sucks13:48
* lbt has an N800 and a good BT gps13:49
* Stskeeps should start preparing cph meet presentation and such13:49
lbtand open streetmap....13:49
* lcukx41 navigates by the stars13:49
RST38hit is ok once locked13:49
RST38hlcuk: in your sparkling spaceship, ET? =)13:49
lbtStskeeps: me too - we need to agree a split13:49
lbtthat's why I wanted your likes/dislikes13:49
lcukx41this finger IS like et13:49
* lcukx41 finds the picture13:50
lbtStskeeps: can I move MM to Extras13:51
* lbt goes to #mer13:51
lcukx41http://liqbase.net/finger_macro.jpg  (warning shows wounded hand with stitches removed)13:52
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Stskeepslbt: go ahead13:53
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pupnik_lcuk wins for hand damage14:06
pupnik_mine's more artistic tho14:06
lcukyeah, you broke windows with yours tho, you should install linux14:07
robtaylorlcuk: ouch!14:07
lcukindeed rob14:08
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lcukyou can try other swear words as well - i know i did14:08
robtaylorhah14:08
robtaylorlcuk: how did you manage that?14:08
lcukfull rundown http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/22909714:08
lcuki had answered the same thing and same questions afterwards so thought i would put it in one place ;)14:09
pupnik_your description is vague on the actual cause of glass breakage though14:10
pupnik_at least i couldn't understand it14:10
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lcukno glass breakage14:10
Stskeepsjust an evil automatic door14:11
pupnik_OW14:11
lcukmy finger was inside the handle - my hand was trapped between the handle and the fixed pole in the centre of the doors (double doors)14:11
Stskeepslcuk: at least in denmark it would be almost obligatory for the company to fix the issue, as it would be a work environment violation14:11
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robtaylorlcuk: impressively done ;)14:13
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* liri is sad14:23
Stskeepsdead tablet?14:24
lirimy n810 is sitting like a brick on my drawer for a couple of months now14:24
Stskeepsheh - i see my n8x0 as a multipurpose device14:24
Stskeepsi can always find some kind of purpose for it :)14:24
liriI recently upgraded all packages including the media player (forgot it's name) and it stopped playing files14:24
liriStskeeps: share with me.14:25
liriStskeeps: I tried using it on the go as well but it gets cumbersome14:25
Stskeepswell, my LCD on my n8x0 is scrolling insanely. low power wireless server, with mer / debian on top14:25
lirino easy PIM, GPS takes up to 3-4 minutes to get a lock/signal, browser isn't loading websites too fast14:25
Stskeepsdid you try Tear yet?14:26
liriwhat do you mean scorlling insanely?14:26
Stskeepsyou owe yourself that14:26
Stskeepshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm5TYGwTwU14:26
liriI've been out of the community for months now cause I've been busy as well so I'm a bit off about the new stuff14:26
StskeepsGPS i can't help with beyond AGPS14:26
StskeepsPIM .. yeah14:26
lirino solution yet for pim right?14:27
RST38hnot much new14:27
RST38hdon't worry14:27
RST38hthe new maemo.org website is up and the itt has been moved there14:27
Stskeepsand everyone is exploding with orgasmic conspiracies, heh14:28
Stskeepsat least the content is starting to be > the noise14:28
liriheh14:28
RST38hthere is a Finnish company that released a semicommercial web browser for the tablet but it does not work wwell enough yet14:28
RST38htheir youtube app works fine though14:28
lcuki still think Stskeeps is writing a book reader14:28
woglindehi14:28
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lcukhiya woglinde \o14:28
liriStskeeps: I don't get that video. that's just the screen going rotation all the time?14:28
woglindethe PIM theme again *g*14:29
Stskeepsliri: yes, and unstoppable :P14:29
Stskeepsit's might hard to use it14:29
Stskeeps+y14:29
liriStskeeps: lol, that's just fun14:29
woglindehm is there no qt pim stuff14:29
RST38hliri: his Blizzard chip is somehow broken, that is all14:29
Stskeepsrest of tablet is fine though14:29
liriStskeeps: what are your uses for it?14:30
lcukhack the x11 driver to adjust the y offset - you never know, your tablet might be the only one that tears when showing a static screen but is flawless when in motion ;)14:30
Stskeepsliri: well i got a new n800 donated, which i use for developing mer and as my day to day device14:31
Stskeepsthe old one i have to start using in some way14:31
Stskeepsah.14:31
Stskeepsnow i know.14:31
Stskeepstorrents.14:31
lirimer is the new version call sign yes?14:31
Stskeepsnah, fremantle is maemo 5.014:31
Stskeepsmer is the community backport / maemo reconstructed14:32
Stskeepswiki.maemo.org/Mer14:32
* lcuk vanishes for pills14:32
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lirihow is debian running on it? is it slow?14:32
Stskeepswell, Mer is basically Maemo UI but based on top of ubuntu14:33
woglindebye lcuk14:33
Stskeepswhich works quite nicely14:33
liriso it's essentially ubuntu14:34
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Stskeepsyeah, but more optimized towards mobile usage14:34
Stskeepsit power saves in similar ways to maemo14:34
AStormStskeeps, meh14:34
liriwhat are the benefits of that upon the maemo os?14:34
AStormmy bluetooth fails in Mer14:34
StskeepsAStorm: hmm14:34
Stskeepsliri: easier to get any app you might want or libraries :)14:34
AStormit binds fine14:34
AStormbut cannot connect to dial-up port14:35
AStorm(can to the serial, can transfer files)14:35
AStormso it's some funky failure14:35
liriStskeeps: cause it uses ubuntu's repos?14:35
Stskeepsliri: correct. :)14:35
AStormmight be blueman suckage14:35
StskeepsAStorm: .xsession-errors might reveal some things14:35
AStormI'll check that later, thanks14:35
Stskeepsliri: also we are working on making development a hell lot easier14:35
Stskeepsno scratchbox, for instance14:36
AStormalso, I need a new battery, this one is dead14:36
AStormat least Mer's charge counter works correct14:36
liriStskeeps: uhmm nice14:36
Stskeepsliri: and no busybox, etc14:37
AStormStskeeps, btw, I'll try direct rfcomm config - by hand14:37
Stskeepsk14:37
Stskeepsliri: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.12#Screenshots14:37
AStormdid that before - if that works, the failure is due to blueman14:37
Stskeepsor NetworkManager :P14:37
AStormyep14:38
AStormthough i could add the connection in nm14:38
AStorm(but the bt device didn't connect)14:38
liriStskeeps: it looks pretty slick, nice work14:39
liriStskeeps: I would guess that it isn't exactly 'production-ready' though?14:40
AStormah btw14:40
AStormthe blueman .desktop file is broken14:40
Stskeepsliri: correct, 20% answered it was day to day usable14:40
AStormand Mer's "tray" is limited to 4 items14:40
Stskeepsbut we have a lot of things working still14:40
AStormneed a way to resize it and a button to "show more items" like in Maemo14:40
StskeepsAStorm: make a huge .txt with the bugs and i'll gladly add them administratively :P14:40
Stskeepsand yes14:40
AStormyeah14:40
liriit's cool though14:41
Stskeepsliri: but we have wifi power saving working, etc14:41
Stskeepsso we're getting closer14:41
lirithis way you get a full blown linux distro with the comfortable mobile UI14:41
AStormand your pidgin version is not hildonized14:41
StskeepsAStorm: we have a pidgin version?14:41
AStormadd the one from Maemo repos, which is14:41
AStorm:)14:41
Stskeepsmust be the ubuntu one14:41
liriheh14:41
AStormno, you don't. exactly14:42
Stskeepsliri: also we target towards making normal apps act well in maemo ui too :P14:42
lirithat's a blessing14:42
AStormI also recommend switching off static dialogs in matchbox for now14:42
AStorm(switch to free)14:42
lirithough I'd be sticking with maemo os until that happens, and who knows when is that :)14:42
Stskeepsliri: *nod*14:42
AStormand disable super_modal14:42
lirito be honest I thought alot about flash games in the tablet but I found out that they run insanely slow which is in contrary to what I thought at first14:43
AStormit's a workaround though - to work with that, need to extend the "task buttons" to show all the dialogs too14:43
liriI figured that this happens because the cpu still can't handle all that math14:43
StskeepsAStorm: i agree with all your observations, but i need them in list form :)14:44
GAN800liri, the Flash plugin is really badly put together.14:44
RST38hAStorm: Want a riddle?14:44
AStormStskeeps, later today - have to jump on labs14:44
liriGAN800: you mean the flash plugin for the browser?14:44
AStormor rather, run14:44
ShadowJK_LiraNuna, I have 24hour clock... maybe because I set country to Finland?14:44
GAN800liri, yes.14:44
AStormbbl14:44
liriGAN800: ahh14:44
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GAN800liri, Flash on the Linux is terrible, Flash on Linux ARM is worse.14:45
liriGAN800: well there's no other alternative. I tried playing the flash file in the media player (that default one) which it plays it but it's even worse than on the browser14:45
liriGAN800: heh, nice14:45
* RST38h knows why Flash is slow on the tablets. It is NOT because of the math too14:45
RST38hThe reason is way funnier14:45
aquatixoh?14:46
lirihow come then RST38h?14:46
RST38hIt performs busy loops on gettimeofday().14:46
aquatixeh14:46
RST38hThe way to improve it is patch gettimeofday() to provide it with a "local" copy of the time14:46
RST38hThere is a patch available too, made for different purposes on RedHat.14:47
Stskeepshmm14:47
StskeepsRST38h: maybe that can be LD_PRELOADed14:47
RST38hYea, exactly14:47
RST38hI will try locating the patch if one of you agrees to try it on NIT14:47
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liriRST38h: I'll do it happily14:47
RST38hOk, let me see if I can locate it14:48
RST38hHere is an x86 specific patch: http://lwn.net/Articles/9266/14:49
RST38hIt uses TSC unfortunately, so will need modifications14:50
woglindelol14:50
StskeepsRST38h: gladly taking kernel patch for Mer kernels :P14:51
Stskeeps(works for maemo too)14:51
* RST38h would rather have this stuff in maemo though =(14:51
Stskeepsyeah, our kernels work for maemo too :P RDNIS patch is -wonderful-14:51
RST38hBut let me see if there is an arch-agnostic patch available14:51
woglinderst the patch is for 2.4 kernels14:52
lirimy maemo kernel is running version 4.814:53
* liri flew 2 decades to the future to get it!14:53
RST38hwoglinde: as it uses TSC you will have to rewrite it anyway, so it does nto matter14:53
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AFB|Workno wonder I can' get on at work I'm on at home lol14:55
Stskeepshehe14:55
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AFB|WorkIf I want to file a feature request to make avatars bigger again on talk.mameo.org do I just file it like a bug?14:57
Stskeepsyeah, think so14:57
* RST38h files a bug to remove the avatars14:57
woglinderst *g*14:57
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* AFB|Work files a bug to delete RST38h's bug14:59
murraycandre__: Can you confirm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4439 ? I am very suprised so I still wonder if it's just me.14:59
andre__murrayc, Lucas already confirmed it15:00
murraycandre__: Yeah, but I still wonder.15:01
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RST38hFOUND IT15:01
RST38hliri,Stskeeps,woglinde: https://www.redhatrenewals.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_MRG/1.0/html/Realtime_Tuning_Guide/sect-Realtime_Tuning_Guide-General_System_Tuning-gettimeofday_speedup.html15:01
RST38hi.e. RedHat has it in the kernel15:01
andre__from past experiences i trust lucas15:01
murraycok15:01
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woglinderst so its only a echo?15:02
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woglindean echo15:03
RST38hwoglinde: it is an echo if you have a RedHat Linux Enterprise Edition15:03
GeneralAntillesAFB|Work, under Newstyle, please15:03
* lbt is breaking in a new coffee cup15:03
RST38hwoglinde: otherwise it is fsck fsck fsck fsck15:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, you do realize that's a setting, right?15:03
RST38hGeneral: It is a setting that enables this feature in the RedHat Linux kernel / glibc15:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, avatars on itT. . . . . . .15:04
RST38hGeneral: For Maemo, someone will have to go into the kernel code and port the changes15:04
RST38hGeneral: Ah, that...15:04
RST38hGeneral: I have pretty much abandoned any hopes that you guys will change ITT layout15:05
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, good for you.15:05
RST38hGeneral: Or implement a choice of color schemes for those who really need it (I do not)15:05
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RST38hGeneral: My current plan is to personally petition Reggie into readding the mobile scheme again and use that15:06
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RST38hGeneral: Whatever visual silliness you wreak on that poor forum site, I no longer care15:07
ShadowJK_hm, are they selling that smartq5 thing to europe/us anywhere?15:08
GeneralAntillesWoo then we're agreed!15:08
RST38hGeneral: Mmm...I, would not go THAT far with conclusions :)15:08
GeneralAntillesI don't care, you don't care.15:09
GeneralAntillesSure sounds like it.15:09
RST38hGeneral: Basically, my current take is that the current Maemo.org design has been discussed among a really small group of people who are currently closed to taking any external suggestions seriously15:09
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RST38hGeneral: I do think it is bad, but there does not seem to be a way to convey this to the above group.15:11
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woglinderst where did you find the gettimeofday is the sucker?15:13
StsN800RST38h, though, there's been countless open meetings and ml discussions15:13
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AFB|WorkGeneralAntilles: opps I filed it under TALK15:14
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RST38hSts: Yea, but the same people were present15:20
RST38hSts: I tried participating a few times, but it did not look like anybody listened15:20
RST38hwoglinde: use strace on MicroB15:21
woglinderst there is no vdso support for arm15:21
woglindeat all15:21
woglindeand the vdso stuff is in for all kernels15:21
RST38hwogline: open a page with a few youtube videos and watch strace go bonkers =)15:21
woglindehttp://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-2.6.29.y.git;a=blob;f=arch/x86/vdso/vclock_gettime.c;h=d9d35824c56f30e56266445cdf9ed5877f94bf52;hb=HEAD15:21
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RST38hwoglinde: Well, as I said before, it is not simple patch application, some real work has to be done15:22
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StsN800oh dear god15:22
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StsN800star trek + nokia commercials in .dk15:22
RST38hSts: Ok, who has got the Nokia handset? =)15:23
StsN800i wonder when lcars tablet shows up15:23
StsN800RST38h, in a bus atm so saw it briefly15:23
* RST38h wonders what would happen if the new StarTrek movie had all the crew members use N97 instead of traditional tricorders15:24
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lbtthey wouldn't get a signal15:24
lbtKirk would die15:25
RST38hhehe15:25
StsN800j j abrams gone insane?15:25
lbtbad idea15:25
RST38hKirk can't die.15:25
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RST38hHe is like Achilles, there is just one combination of events that makes him die15:25
lbtDCMA ?15:26
lbttakedown Kirk!!!15:26
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lbtulitmate weapon?15:26
RST38hOnly if that combination of events gets 0 probability =)15:28
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AFB|WorkWhat do you guys think would be better for minimalist theme a row or two of links that at top of everypage,  or a drop down box full of links that will take up almost as much space?15:28
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RST38hAFB: One thin menu at the top15:29
RST38hAFB: Windows style.15:30
RST38hi.e. not the menu but a menu bar, sorry15:30
AFB|Workyou saying a set of drop down boxes across the top15:30
RST38hno15:30
RST38hI am saying a menu bar, no drop down boxes15:30
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RST38hDrop down boxes = javascript = bad bad bad on an S60 phone15:31
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AFB|Workyeah I was trying to get away from the drop down box15:36
AFB|WorkI'll just stick with the menus thing I'm working on now15:36
RST38hmenus take vertical space and S60 phones have got 320x240 screens15:37
RST38h(and there is no mobile theme any more, so your minimalistic one is all we have got)15:37
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RST38hwoglinde: btw, the alternative way would be exposing kernel time via mmap()15:42
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RST38hwoglinde: i.e. you open and mmap some device (/dev/rtc ?) and make gettimeofday() read directly from mmap()ped page15:43
woglinderst yes15:43
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ShadowJKopera mini is also a bit cumbersome with drop down boxes :)15:47
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fred23 Hi!  I'm with Mozilla, working on Fennec (Firefox mobile) and I've hit something in the sapwood theme engine that's slowing down our startup... is any theme-expert online ?15:50
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lbtfred23: sorry not me15:57
fred23lbt: np15:57
lbtOTOH...15:57
timeless_mbpfred23: have you filed a bug w/ the private bug tracker?15:57
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lbtdo you know where the maemo source for fennec lives?15:58
timeless_mbplbl: they're in hg15:58
timeless_mbpthe instructions are on wiki.mozilla.org iirc if you really want to pull and build15:58
lbt.dsc ?15:58
timeless_mbpno.15:58
lbt:(15:58
timeless_mbpwe aren't talking about packages, we're talking about live projects :)15:58
fred23timeless_mbp : it's not a bug per se... I wanted to talk to someone closer to the code to discuss some improvements I had in mind...15:58
lbtyeah - agile.... package as you go15:59
timeless_mbpagile: don't package at all15:59
timeless_mbpjust build continuously15:59
* lbt thinks you're thinking of Gentoo15:59
timeless_mbpfred23: if you're associated w/ mozilla, you should have access to the private bug database15:59
timeless_mbpfred23: and you should be using it15:59
timeless_mbpfile a bug and stick something in it, have someone cc me, i'll connect the bug to an engineer if i can16:00
lbtit's a shame ... if there was a .dsc I could have it building on OBS For Mer in a few minutes16:00
timeless_mbplbt: and how would that help anyone?16:00
lbtOh, like there are never inter-OS issues or packaging problems16:00
fred23yeah, but I don't like filing bugs before knowing a minimum and talking with the concerned guys... that might be an irrelevant issue.16:01
timeless_mbpfred23: i can't talk about this in the open, this channel is logged16:01
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fred23np16:01
timeless_mbpif you don't have a way of reaching the people you need directly, then use the bug database16:01
fred23I'll do16:01
timeless_mbpdon't worry about bug count or quality, we have many and none16:01
timeless_mbpthink about it more as a logged secure email16:02
timeless_mbpwith safe ways to cc people into a conversation later w/o them losing context16:02
fred23timeless_mbp: cool. thanx16:03
lbtso timeless_mbp, there's really nothing done on packaging it?16:03
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timeless_mbplbt: there are .deb's and things16:04
lbtOK...16:04
timeless_mbpbut it's totally irrelevant to our needs as developers16:04
timeless_mbpand you're asking a pair of mozilla devs16:04
timeless_mbpwhich is ...16:04
* timeless_mbp goes off searching for analogies16:04
* thux .fi spam coming sorry, perustettiin Meizirkkin kanssa suomi kanava #nettilaudat tervetuloa local channel for tablets16:05
timeless_mbplike asking a pair of field workers about the recipe for soup16:05
lbtyeah, I know...16:05
lbtthanks for the help though16:06
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timeless_mbpseriously though, there are debs in the repository for mozilla16:07
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lbtOK, I'm after a .dsc and a tar.gz to run on the Mer autobuilder (getting ready for the Danish weekend)16:09
ShadowJKrepository for mozilla?16:10
* lbt is googling16:10
ShadowJKthere's some version of fennec in extras-devel atleast16:11
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Meiz_n810lbt get fennec sources from ubuntu-repo16:11
Meiz_n810ubuntu has it16:11
qwerty12That version was put there by X-Fade, it wasn't built with the autobuilder so it may not have source16:11
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lbtta - submitted to OBS16:13
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RST38hfred23: Sapwood sources are available AFAIK (at least I remember finding a bug there)16:20
RST38hfred23: So you can easily find what is causing problems16:21
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fred23RST38h: what do you mean ?... I've got the sources and I've pinpointed the exact problem. I just wanted to discuss something with the theme guys before submitting hack ideas...16:21
RST38hfred23: Ah16:22
fred23thanx anyways ;-)16:22
RST38hfred23: Submit a bug. It won't be fixed in the current OS2008.16:22
fred23RST38h: you got it.16:22
RST38hfred23: It *may* be fixed in the upcoming OS on the upcoming device, if it still uses the same Sapwood and there is someone in Nokia who shows interest in your bug report.16:23
fred23RST38h: ok, so no big expectations to have here, if I understand correctly..16:23
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lopzhi16:26
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RST38hfred23: Well, there are at least two things you can do, aside from filing the bug (which is also useful, whatever I said)16:53
RST38hfred23: One is submit your patch to Stskeeps here who will introduce it into MeR16:53
RST38hfred23: Another is to publish the patch and/or the .deb with the patched sapwood on ITT16:53
RST38hfred23: This will at least let people who are interested in a fix apply it to their current tablets16:54
StskeepsRST38h: option three is simply to talk to herzi :)16:54
RST38hStskeeps: no official updates to Diablo any more =(16:54
StskeepsRST38h: sure, but that doesn't mean sapwood doesn't work for diablo :P16:55
Stskeepsand yes, file a bug16:55
fred23Stskeeps: yeah, I tried to get to herzi, but I'm afraid here's rarely online.16:55
Stskeepsfile a bug then16:55
fred23Stskeeps: bug filed... np16:55
fred23let's wait then...16:55
fred23thank you all for this prompt support!16:56
RST38hsorry that we can't do more here16:56
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RST38hHmm...N97 supposedly does not have OMAP317:00
Stskeepsyeah17:01
RST38h32GB internal flash though, oh yeah17:01
lbtStskeeps can't fred23 also provide a patch for Mer?17:03
Stskeepslbt: same code17:03
jaskareminds me, do sdhc cards beyong 16GB work on n810?17:03
lbtyes, except we have the ability to accept and try a patch 'easily'17:03
lbtin Devel:MC ?17:03
Stskeepssure, but we can get that from the bug report :)17:03
lbtnb xulrunner is building17:03
lbtold Jaunty version17:04
Stskeepsk17:04
GeneralAntilles$700 for the N9717:05
GeneralAntillesThey've got to be kidding for an ARM11.17:05
GeneralAntillesRST38h, 400MHz and change.17:05
lbtbut it allows an easy setup of the osc armel chroot with all the builddeps17:05
GeneralAntillesjaska, cards up to 2TB will work fine.17:05
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* RST38h has no problem with ARM11 (why they hide the exact manufacturer though?) but $700 is way too steep17:05
jaskaoh17:05
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jaskai just recall it officially being 8g max and 16g working17:06
RST38hIt is just a phone, and not even the business E-series model17:06
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GeneralAntillesjaska, 8GB is what was available to be certified with at the time the N810 was released.17:06
lbtanyhow, fred23, if you want to get your patch tried on Mer, give me a yell17:07
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I don't have a problem with ARM11, either, but not for $700.17:07
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jaskayeah, thats what i gather, googling around, thinking of upping my sd card from 4 to something17:07
ShadowJKNot that there's any big difference between E series and N series?17:07
fred23lbt: I appreciate ! thanx17:07
lbtnp17:07
ShadowJKExcept N series has crippled/nonexistant VoIP and E-series has cumbersome media player, I guess..17:08
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* Robot101 has always found the build quality and software stability better on E series17:09
Robot101ie they don't feel like they're going to fall in 2 every time you open the phone17:10
GeneralAntillesWish somebody would give me some input on the repository.maemo.org improvemnts.17:10
Robot101and the e-mail app actually works. like, I can read and send email.17:10
* wazd ponders why Reggie killed old iTT theme :(17:11
ShadowJKdunno, email has "just worked" for me ever since I got my first phone with email support17:11
ShadowJKSeries 40 :)17:11
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GeneralAntilleswazd, it's not compatible with the new vBulletin17:12
Robot101its been variously shit in most of the S60 phones I've had until E-series17:12
wazdGeneralAntilles: ah, damn(17:12
GeneralAntillesE71x, 5800, or wait for the Maemo phone. . . .17:13
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* ShadowJK is pondering E71 vs E75 now :/17:13
GeneralAntillesE75 seems extra expensive for little purpose.17:14
GeneralAntilles$200 just doesn't seem worth it.17:14
ShadowJKoh my memory had them down as similarily priced, or atleast I was assuming they'd be similar once E75 is out in volume17:15
GeneralAntillesMaybe, it's listed at around $550, now, though, right?17:15
ShadowJKah right, 100E difference17:15
ShadowJK340 for E71, 425 for E75 with dubious shipping dates all over17:16
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* Robot101 has an E66 and is v. happy17:16
ShadowJKI know if I get an E66 I'll be sad if any operator decides to extend HSDPA coverage17:17
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ShadowJKhm, E71 is 389E on Nokia's online store and E75 is 49917:18
GeneralAntillesE71 is about $320 USD here.17:19
ShadowJKRobot101, oh I was thinking of E6317:19
ShadowJKhm, E66 does seem to have both 2100 and 900 band 3g and hsdpa, but no qwerty and costs more than E71? wtf? :)17:21
suihkulokkistyle costs :)17:24
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ShadowJKhow much would it cost to put modern hardware inside E70 formfactor :(17:26
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RST38hmoo wazd17:28
RST38hShadow: Will probably cost a few human sacrifices to the Tentacled One =)17:28
inzwazd has no easter eggs17:28
lbtRST38h: human?17:28
wazdRST38h: heya)17:28
lbtI have a cat here that keeps treading on my keyboard17:29
lbtwill she do?17:29
RST38hlbt: What did you expect? A rabbit?17:29
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RST38hlbt: No.17:29
lbtaw please17:29
lbtI'll put sauce on her17:29
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RST38hlbt: The Tentacled One liks brains!17:30
lbtoh, she's smart17:31
lbtand quite pudgy too17:31
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lbtI've told her what's coming!17:31
RST38hNo new E70 for you.17:31
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wazdRST38h: kids at Fruct were charmed with ATi :)17:32
RST38hwazd: Poor kids, they have nothing to learn programming on nowadays =)17:34
wazdI surrender, I can't use iTT anymore17:34
Stskeepsuse minimal theme17:34
Stskeeps:P17:34
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RST38hSts: it has also got problems17:35
RST38hfewer, yes17:35
wazdStskeeps: it doesn't show new messages17:35
Stskeeps"New posts" on rightmost17:35
Stskeepsand "Active topics"17:35
* Stskeeps has new posts bookmarked.17:36
RST38hSts: but it wastes so much space...17:36
GeneralAntilleswazd, what's the problem?17:36
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I filed a bug about that.17:36
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wazdGeneralAntilles: too much noise and no info arrange17:37
GeneralAntilleswazd, what does that means?17:37
GeneralAntillesThere's less noise, as there are no ads anymore.17:37
GeneralAntillesThere's actually less information overall on the page.17:38
Stskeepshuh.17:38
Stskeepscan it be a capactive screen when my nokia stylus works on it?17:38
lcukit could be dual mode17:38
RST38hGeneral: fixing it will require removal of the right column, but it is contrary to the maemo.org style =(17:38
lcukbut i doubt it17:38
GeneralAntillesRST38h, for the topic list? Bull.17:38
RST38hGeneral: it's 25% of the total width17:39
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, somebody lied?17:39
wazdGeneralAntilles: http://s54.radikal.ru/i145/0905/ae/14e4a8b99df3.png17:39
RST38hWith no clear use (which is true for most of those columns)17:39
wazdGeneralAntilles: This theme should be called "Kill All Humans" you know17:39
GeneralAntilleswazd, I'm not sure what you're showing me.17:40
wazdGeneralAntilles: why the hell titles are orange?17:40
* RST38h personally has no problem with the color17:41
wazdGeneralAntilles: why not black?17:41
GeneralAntillesBecause that's what links are colored.17:41
RST38hBut if everybody wishes, I can submit a bug tracker asking to provide a quick color scheme selection box17:41
GeneralAntillesBlack makes it impossible to tell that it's a link.17:41
RST38hShouldn't be difficult really17:41
RST38hGeneral: Should I17:42
RST38h?17:42
wazdGeneralAntilles: okay, what about block at the right17:42
GeneralAntillesNobody's really fixated on orange, but no other viable link color have been proposed.17:42
wazdGeneralAntilles: it's black and it's a link17:42
ShadowJKStskeeps, so it's really "capacitive" and not capacitive then ;-)17:42
ShadowJKI suspect the battery is "2400mAh" and not 2400 mAh too ;-)17:42
wazdGeneralAntilles: BTW there is a huge difference between link in a text and a Title17:43
RST38hGeneral: Should I file bug tracker for Talk or for website in general?17:43
GeneralAntillesLinks colors should go under Newstyle.17:44
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RST38hUnderstood17:44
wazdGeneralAntilles: Anyway, I will not criticize new style anymore cause it's senseless17:44
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GeneralAntilleswazd, specific improvement suggestions are good. Generic "it sucks" are not.17:45
wazdGeneralAntilles: I've made a huge post bout specific improvements. Only one was actually made17:46
wazdGeneralAntilles: Headline links were added (which are black too btw)17:47
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RST38hwazd, General: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446717:47
RST38hI hope the description is neutral enough and will satisfy both the web site maintainers and the ITT crowd17:48
RST38hOrange-on-gray will of course stay the default color, so the branding is retained17:49
wazdRST38h: I should have another account to confirm?17:49
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RST38hwazd: I think bugzilla accounts are separate from maemo ones17:50
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wazdRST38h: eeh... I had only "leave as unconfirmed" option17:54
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RST38hwazd: oh you can't confirm it yourself17:55
RST38hwazd: But you can vote for it and if enough people vote it gets autoconfirmed17:55
GeneralAntillesConfirming isn't all that excitingly important here.17:55
RST38hwazd: Find "Vote for this bug" link, click on it and check it17:56
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wazdRST38h: it was hard but I've made it :)18:02
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radicI bound /media/mmc2/user to /home/user via a init-script19:15
radicI linked ist to rcX.d as S10...19:16
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radicStskeeps: the Themes are not in /home/user?19:47
Meizirkki/usr/share/themes ?19:47
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radicMeizirkki: I have some dataloss in /home/user now the theme wouldn't be loaded correctly19:51
radicI restored a backup, I hope it helps19:54
radicno, it didn't19:55
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skiburhas anybody put Arm Slackware on the Tablet yet?20:18
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Shadow__Xhas anyone gotten auto nick complete without  tab working using xchat20:22
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Stskeepswhoa21:46
Stskeepswhere'd the orange writing go?21:46
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Stskeeps(in titles)21:46
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, gone, apparently. :P21:47
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RST38hehhehe21:49
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RST38h"All personnel working around SCP-807 must be well-fed, and should preferably wear oral restraints to prevent accidental ingestion."22:03
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JaffaEv'nin all22:13
JaffaWhite wine at in-laws with Torchwood marathon. Great22:14
JaffaNot even articles on p.m.o can bring me down :)22:14
GeneralAntillesLivin' high, and having fun, eh?22:15
* johnx reads chinese forums through google translate 22:17
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RST38humm... why?22:20
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Wine helps at the in-laws' ;-)22:20
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GAN800A 15" laptop really is a battleship.22:35
resethello22:35
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resetanybody knows if exists a project for maemo running over nokia 5800??22:36
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RST38hno22:46
johnxRST38h, the SmartQ 522:47
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RST38hjohnx: I am hearing about SmartQ since Sts got his this morning. What exactly is the big deal? It looks like a generic Chinese PMP, is there something special about it?22:50
johnxRST38h, 1) it's cheap and commonly available in China 2) it's as open (maybe more open?) than the N8x0 devices were on launch22:51
johnxbut the emphasis is on 1. It's actually a big deal over there22:51
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RST38hHmm, interesting23:00
* RST38h thought hundreds of PMPs are commonly available in China, a market in Taipei certainly made me believe that23:00
johnxRST38h, hundreds of open, linux-running PMPs with a company that's actually providing support and firmware updates?23:01
johnxhonestly, I don't know why this is so big, but I think it struck the same chord with the Chinese Linux community as the N8x0 struck with the US/CA/EU Linux community23:02
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ShadowJKMost of the "MP4" and "MP5" PMPs are rockchip based, this is arm-based.. :)23:02
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RST38hjohnx: Interesting...23:07
RST38hjohnx: I actually thought a lot of these devices were pretty open to begin with, but that is probably because I was looking from developer's point of view23:08
RST38hI mean, commercial developer23:08
johnxyeah, I think (at least some people) are actually getting tired of pirating crappy half-working programs and having no recourse23:09
suihkulokkiIt was curious to find out a mips-based linux laptop had open documentation23:10
suihkulokki..but only in chinese23:10
johnxah, that mips thing? I saw one of those at a little shop once :)23:10
johnxI think23:10
ShadowJKThere are several :)23:10
suihkulokkiseveral based on same design23:10
johnxit was like a MIPS, 64MB of RAM, Linux and a 480x320 7" screen.23:10
ShadowJKThere's a family of them with MIPS, 512 - 2 gig of ram, 1024x600 9" too23:11
johnxthat sounds much more worthwhile23:12
ShadowJKLemote YeeLoong 8089, for example23:12
johnxthe one I played with cost almost as much as the original eeePC, and was at almost the same weight...23:12
RST38hsuihkulokki: Actually, I think I have English language documentation for it :)23:12
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RST38hBut not, I would not suggest a MIPS based laptop to anyone23:13
ShadowJKOnly reason why you'd get it though is if you're a free (as in GNU) fanatic... it costs more than a low end EEE for similar performance and hungrier power consumption23:13
ShadowJKhttp://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Products/CFL-00223:13
johnxI highly doubt it's as fast as even the original eeePC...23:13
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ShadowJKyeah it isn't23:13
RST38hMIPS devices are actually cheaper than ARM ones but, again, the architecture is mightily outdates23:13
RST38houtdated23:14
ShadowJKStallman has that one as his primary computer :-)23:14
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ShadowJK(after olpc embraced windows)23:14
johnxheh, as long as it runs emacs, huh?23:14
RST38hWell, Stallman walks around the town with a kettle and a supermarket bag with tea packs23:14
RST38h(or so the legend says anyway)23:14
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ShadowJKYeah... and tinfoil23:15
johnxactually, that's kinda cool23:15
johnx335EU is a little high though23:15
ShadowJKyeah23:15
ShadowJKIt's "kinda cool", I don't know why, but I think so too :-)23:15
luke-jrRST38h: what? MIPS architecture is awesome23:16
ShadowJKI've been tempted to get one... but then I remind myself of what kind of EEE or Acer you could get for 33523:16
RST38hluke: Have you actually tried programming for mips?23:16
johnxat 335 or so, the HP mini looks really nice23:16
RST38hin assembler?23:16
luke-jrRST38h: yes, and reverse engineered23:16
RST38hand how is that academic monstrosity better than arm?23:17
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LiraNunaanyone else gets 96/100 in ACID3 in Tear?23:17
luke-jrnow you're asking for a relative comparison23:17
luke-jrI don't know ARM asm23:17
ShadowJKyou could compare it to itanium23:17
johnxLiraNuna, me too. Bundyo was getting 100/100 a couple weeks ago23:17
luke-jrI don't know Itanium asm either23:17
LiraNunaluke-jr, ARM has 16 registers, all 16bit23:18
LiraNuna32bit*23:18
LiraNunanamed r0 to r1523:18
luke-jrok23:18
luke-jrMIPS has 32x 32-bit regs23:18
LiraNunaasm is similar to mips, but you don't have a 'dst'23:18
LiraNunaadd r0, r123:19
LiraNunar0 += r123:19
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luke-jrLiraNuna: this is a good thing?23:19
LiraNunayou can also inline shift, mov r0, r1, lsl#323:20
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LiraNunawhich is r0 = r1 << 323:20
luke-jrMIPS is RISC ;)23:20
LiraNunaI know that, but the syntax is similar23:20
LiraNunajust no dst23:20
RST38hluke: You can't use most of MIPS registers because they are allocated by ABI or the OS23:20
luke-jrRST38h: that's an ABI/OS issue23:21
RST38hluke: You do not have conditional opcode execution, builtin shifts, you can't load more than 16bit integer in a single instruction23:21
RST38hluke: When you are the one programming it, it is YOUR issue.23:21
luke-jrRST38h: what stops an OS from using fewer registers?23:22
RST38hLet us see....mm....Ah, I forgot that once MIPS encounters a potential stall it just continues running, corrupting your state23:22
RST38hSo the assembler automatically inserts NOPs for stalls :)23:22
luke-jrsure you understand that?23:22
RST38hluke: What stops you from eating concrete bricks?23:22
luke-jrinstruction 3 is already started when instruction 1 finishes23:23
RST38hYes, luke-jr, I understand that23:23
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RST38hluke-jr: write a program that does loads, stores, or branches, compile it with assembler, then look at the binary23:23
* johnx makes some popcorn, grabs a drink23:24
luke-jrRST38h: yes, I agree GCC could use some better MIPS optimizations ;)23:24
RST38hluke-jr: Ask yourself why some of your instructions take 2x32bit words, not just one23:24
RST38hOh dear23:24
luke-jrhow do you expect to load a 32-bit value with only a single 32-bit word23:24
luke-jr?23:24
RST38hIt is not about optimizations. It is about an architectural feature where MIPS does not stall no matter what23:24
luke-jrdefine 'stall'?23:24
RST38hluke-jr: Do exactly what I said. See what happens. Google for the definition of "stall".23:25
luke-jrGoogle doesn't know23:25
RST38hluke-jr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_pipelining23:27
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luke-jrRST38h: looks like a safeguard for incorrect code23:29
ssvbluke-jr: looks like not having stalls implemented in HW restricts the possibilities to make a new CPU core with higher latencies which is still compatible with the binaries built for old CPUs23:31
derfssvb: If Intel had had that restriction, we wouldn't have had the abomination known was the Pentium 4.23:32
LiraNuna^ lol.23:32
derf*as23:33
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RST38hluke-jr: you need a junior-level college class on comp arch23:35
ssvbderf: no, we would probably have itanic by now :)23:36
RST38hluke-jr: Anything taught by Hennessy&Patterson book will do. BTW, Hennessy is the guy who headed the MIPS project23:36
johnx...also makes some good booze23:37
luke-jrssvb: maybe my code EXPECTS the pipeline ;)23:38
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RST38hpipelines by themselves are no problem23:42
RST38hThey are actually good for you =)23:42
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