IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-05-05

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johnx'night RST38h00:05
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Macerknow this may sound strange but00:12
Macerwhich debian install cd would i use for a core2duo?00:12
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johnxnot ia64. you either want x86 or amd64 (not sure what it's called)00:13
Macerhm. so no itanium arch used on core2duo?00:14
Macerdo they even make itaniums anymore?00:14
johnxit's for servers00:14
johnxnot common servers though00:14
Macervirtualization etc?00:14
KurtKrauthow can I turn on or blink the N800 led? Does this envolve writing to a file in /proc like in laptops?00:14
johnxnot even...00:14
mattUnfortuently I do not believe that the Nokia n810 is for me. I bought it expecting it to have a faster processor than it does. So reckon I am going to sell it on Ebay. Any tips on how to "wipe" the internals and then make it like new again?00:14
Macermore like cracking hte genome servers?00:14
johnxyeah, stuff like that00:14
Macerthey are that good?00:15
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johnxMacer, not really, but some people have high budgets and low expectations. they're pretty good for a certain subset of problems00:15
johnxmatt, clean up files from the internal memory, then reflash00:16
johnxKurtKraut, I think there's a d-bus call you can use. let me check00:16
Macerhigh budgets and low expectations :) that's awesome00:16
mattjohnx: Ok, so lets see, hook it up via usb to do the clean up?00:16
Maceri honestly thought they were discontinued00:16
Macerand were shoved into newer tech like core2duo00:17
johnxmatt, yup. delete anything that's yours, but leave the map files alone :)00:17
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Macerkind of like ppro and p3s00:17
mattjohnx: So things such as passwords and stuff....stored in the things..........:(00:17
KurtKrautjohnx, I want to make a plugin for Pidgin to make this led to blink when there are unread messages00:17 goes slow as shit00:17
johnxMacer, nope. it's a totally different architecture. AMD forced Intel's hand by making 64-bit processors that were backwards compatible with x86 binaries00:17
KurtKrautmatt: just reinstall the firmware. But what kind of usage you have that N810 is not fast enough?00:18
Maceroh so itaniums were pure 64bit?00:18
mattKurtKraut: Mainly internet browsing..I just thought it'd be faster than it is.00:18
johnxmatt, that gets cleared when you reflash00:18
mattKurtKraut: I find myself waiting to get to my desktop instead....00:19
Macerwell. that's an awesome concept :)00:19
mattreally I just need a laptop....00:19
Macerthey should leave i386 shit to C7s and atoms00:19
johnxmatt, before you sell it, have you tried the "Tear" web browser00:19
johnxMacer, then why aren't you using an itanium? :)00:19
mattjohnx: No I haven't, is it better?00:19
Macerjohnx: don't have one :(00:19
Macermaybe i'll buy one00:19
Maceri would rather buy a sparc first tho00:19
Macera dec alpha or something00:20
Macerthat would be awesome00:20
johnxmatt, lots better. might be worth a try before you reflash and clear out your tablet. nothing to lose after all :)00:20
KurtKrautmatt: I don't think you will get faster than this on a portable device.00:20
johnxKurtKraut, seen this: ?00:20
Macermatt: i tried a netbook (the acer one) it's still slow as shit with xp or linux on it00:20
Macerand that ist he laptop version of ultra-portable00:20
Macerit's 10x larger than an n800 and runs slower imo00:21
mattjohnx: KurtKraut I may take a look at it. But another major reason I am considering is this: I tried and tried and tried to format videos for the n810, but they weren't ever smooth unless I really made the videos crap quality.00:21
Macerit was nice for an extremely small laptop though. i will give it that much. but it won't fit in a pocket00:21
johnxmatt, even in mplayer?00:21
Macermatt: easiest way i found was to use nero recode and use the ipod profile00:21
mattjohnx: Sadly. If I jumped the resolution down........well then it'd finally work.00:21
Macerthey run great doing that :)00:21
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Maceralthough you can probably make a better profile for it but i've never tried00:22
lbtlcuk hey... seriously cool new 3D technology  game available on the iPhone *and* should work on the N8x0 and probably 770 too very realistic :
Macer90MB and good enough quality to actually sit there and watch them without skipping00:22
mattMacer: I tried quite a bit of stuff............00:22
KurtKrautjohnx: no, and I cannot generate too much traffic on th connection I am using. Could you tell me what it is?00:22
johnxmatt, at about 400x240 or so video should still look pretty good00:22
Macermatt: use nero recode ;)00:22
Macertrust me.. easiest way00:22
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johnxKurtKraut, it's a LED blinking pluging for Pidgin. Source included. even if it doesn't work, it might give you a clue as to where to write to00:23
Macermp4/aac ftw00:23
tds5016hello all. can someone tell me how I'd get the mac address of the device in python?00:23
tds5016the maemo device*00:23
tds5016it's an n81000:23
johnxdo you mind just calling ash from inside python?00:24
lcuklbt, thats hyper realistic, but the technology on the 810 cannot cope - where would the balls go00:25
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tds5016johnx: was that to me?00:25
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johnxtds5016, yes. though I think someone had a way to do it in pure python00:25
lbtI thought you'd be impressed00:25
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tds5016johnx: oh okay. I'd prefer to have it in pure python.00:26
lcukmaybe we could get craves one to make an attachment00:26
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tds5016but if worse comes to worse, I'll settle for making a call to ash.00:26
tds5016can you send me a tutorial on how I'd do that?00:27
johnxwell, in sh: /sbin/ifconfig | grep HW00:28
KurtKrautjohnx: that sounds great, thanks.00:28
johnxhm, maybe: /sbin/ifconfig | grep wlan000:28
johnxthat way if usb0 is up too you don't get both ;)00:29
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johnxcutting out the part you want is left as an exercise in python. :D should be simple though00:29
paul0yay! got one N800!00:29
johnxcongrats paul000:29
paul0now the battery is full, and i'll upgrade the firmware00:29
mattSo...I plugged the nokia up to computer....I cannot remember where the *.* config files are.00:30
paul0johnx, thanks :)00:30
johnxmatt, the config files will be erased when you reflash. for now just delete anything on the "Internal Memory" that's yours00:30
mattjohnx: oh, then I should be good.00:30
mattjohnx: to reflash......00:31
infobothmm... flashing is
paul0how do i check my firmware version?00:33
johnxmenu -> settings -> control panel -> about00:33
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paul0well, my N800 is probably running the OS2007, afaik all the N800 comes with it, right?00:33
paul0i'll check anyway00:34
johnxeven if it's OS2008 it's probably an old version00:34
paul0it is the OS200700:35
johnxwell, then definitely get that upgraded to OS2008 :)00:35
paul0yup, i'm downloading the image00:36
johnxgood deal :)00:36
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paul0finally this N800 came to Brazil with a good price00:37
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johnxah good! I heard they were really expensive there for a long time00:38
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paul0it usually costs R$1000, but one online store is selling it for R$399 now00:38
johnxwow. that's a big price drop00:39
johnxglad to hear it's not a scam, too ;)00:39
johnxthat's a lot closer to the US price :)00:39
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johnxR$1000 was more than the US launch price, I think00:40
paul0now linux MIDs became much more popular00:40
paul0it doesn't come with FM Radio application already?00:42
johnxnope. but it's available to download00:42
johnxdo you have wifi?00:42
paul0yes, but i'll download it later00:42
paul0first firmware upgrade, later i'll start downloading some applications :)00:43
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thopiekaretrunko: PING00:47
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etrunkothopiekar: pong00:49
thopiekarhow is the progress with the e17 deb-repos?00:49
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thopiekarare there now available repos out there? , etrunko00:50
etrunkothopiekar: not ready yet00:51
thopiekarI tried to make packages from svn00:51
thopiekarbut I have lots of trouble00:51
mattjohnx: Macer I keep haveing troubles flashing it, I keep getting "command not found"00:51
mattfor the's odd.00:51
etrunkothopiekar: the guys are fixing the last bits in packages00:51
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etrunkothopiekar: you tried for maemo?00:52
thopiekarplease add to the dependencies cvn of e17..00:52
paul0"Suitable USB device not found, waiting"00:52
etrunkoor ubuntu/debian ?00:52
paul0i've did something wrong?00:52
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thopiekaretrunko: no I need the packages for a virtual maschine..00:52
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thopiekaretrunko: k.. so the repos will be online in the next... ?00:53
etrunkothopiekar: later this week i think00:53
thopiekarI'm just thinking about making a vm for maemo.. maybe somethink like maemoSDKvm+.. INDT's vmdk's are not defragmented to they are very big..00:54
kennethopiekar, maybe talk to setanta here on freenode, he did the vmdk00:55
etrunkothopiekar: you can try #pkg-e for further information on the repository00:55
thopiekarI managed to defragment a good solution with gnome, android sdk, maemo sdk , etc to 11,6GB and 7zip'd it to 2.8GB00:56
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thopiekaretrunko: k00:56
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thopiekar2.8GB are better to share than 20GB :P00:56
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thopiekarso I want to make a new vm with e17.. e17 is very fast and lightwight.. so the best of a vm :)00:57
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thopiekark.. I have to get some sleep.. see you soon :]01:01
KurtKrautwhat is the OS2008 default browser?01:01
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mattI seemingly cannot flash my n810, either in opensuse 11.1 or ubuntu 8.10.01:02
matteverytime I go to run the flasher, either as root or user, it get "permission denied".01:03
tds5016matt: are you sudoing or sudo su -01:03
tds5016and yes, there is a difference.01:03
matttds5016: tried both.01:03
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tds5016rut r'oh then. haha.01:03
matttds5016: I just sudoed su, ./flasher, nothing else, and get this.01:04
mattbash: ./flasher-3.0: Permission denied01:04
tds5016show me what happens if you log in with sudo su -01:04
matttds5016: what do you mean?01:05
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tds5016run the command sudo su - first01:05
tds5016that way you are actually become root.01:05
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matttds5016: tried it.01:05
tds5016okay, lemme see the outputs.01:05
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matttds5016: tds5016 permission denied.01:07
matttds5016: flasher-3.0, tried all three of them.01:09
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matttds5016: It's strange, because I have flashed it before.01:10
tds5016hmm.... that's strange. I've not much experience, so I may not be able to help.01:10
tds5016I'm sorry.01:10
johnxmatt, sudo chmod +x flasher-3.001:10
mattjohnx: tried it01:11
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b-manhello, johnx :)01:11
johnxhey b-man01:11
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johnxmatt, you're sure you have the right version of the flasher?01:11
mattjohnx: but...I'm trying the static version on my suse again, i think it will work.01:11
tds5016matt I hate suggesting this, but you could always try from windows...01:11
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matttds5016: yeah right........01:12
mattjohnx: Didn't try the static version on suse, it seems to be working.01:12
KurtKrautwhat is the OS2008 default browser? Is it Fennec?01:12
johnxI'm guessing you had the amd64 version on a 32bit distro or vice versa01:12
mattjohnx: Indeed, is working........01:12
mattjohnx: dunno.01:12
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sp3000KurtKraut: microb01:14
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KurtKrautsp3000: thanks. I miss a lot of features, for instance, block the rendering/download of images01:21
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* Macer is waiting for this damn debian install to encipher the hard drive01:22
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johnxKurtKraut, I think ther's an option to not load images.01:24
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KurtKrautjohnx: no, there isn't01:25
johnxon the bottom right of the browser screen, click the magnifying glass -> show images -> never01:26
KurtKrautyou can block javascript, but not images01:26
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KurtKrautoh hell, i was looking for that on the main confifu01:27
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KurtKrautoh hell, i was looking for that on the main configuration window. thanks again johnx01:27
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johnxno problem. it takes a while to get used to how they laid out the menus01:27
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Macerit's amazing how little scientists do :)01:29
Macerthey don't usually produce real world results01:29
lbtpass me another wheel01:30
Maceri don't think scientists created the wheel01:31
Macerit was engineers01:31
lbtnah, they built it01:31
Maceri believe the last good thing a scientist made was the atom bomb01:31
lbta scientist invented it01:31
Macerwell... not the bomb in general... but nuclear fission01:31
lbtare you calling the H-bomb bad then?01:31
Macerit had real world results01:31
lbtand fusion is not as good as fission?01:31
Macerno.. it is neither nor01:31
Macerfusion is better :)01:32
lbtbut that came after the atom bomb01:32
Macerdo they have fusion reactors?01:32
lbtso the last good thing must have been fusion01:32
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Maceri thought they were all fission?01:32
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Maceri mean realistically.. the medical scientists are the only ones who have contributed anything tangible to the rest of the world in the last 50 years (if not more)01:33
lbtso, say, semiconductors aren't tangible?01:33
lbtnah you're right01:34
Macerwhat are semiconductors doing that have improved the world greatly?01:34
lbtmedical fission01:34
Macermade a nice train at disney world?01:34
lbtwell, I can think of some medical devices...01:34
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lbtthat the medical scientists use01:34
Macerand well.. :)01:36
Macersemiconductors have been around since the 1800s01:36
lbtthey've been around since they fused in the sun01:36
Macersure in a philosophical "we are all stardust" kind of way01:36
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lbtand given silicon is a semiconductor then I suppose an egg-timer was the first semiconductor device01:37
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Macerbut i mean... paleontologists.. they study ancient creatures.. how is that helping the world?01:37
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Macerhow is it advancing humanity studying how a mammoth lived?01:37
lbtyou're right again... there's no point in looking to the past to see how things might change in the future01:38
lbtsay how animals coped in ice-ages01:38
Macersure certain things01:38
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Macerbut .... the underlying problem was the ice age01:38
lbtwhen we had changes to the world's temperature01:38
Macerobviously we know what the conditions were01:38
lbtnothing like toda01:39
lbtwhen we will havechanges to the world's temperature01:39
Macernow it is time to find a way to cope with those conditions by making tangible technology01:39
Maceryou know what it was and what it does and there is nothing that is being done to do anything about it :)01:39
lbtyes... to do what exactly?01:39
lbtI like solar shades01:40
lbtsounds cool in a big way01:40
lbton so many levels01:40
Macerbuild an underground society ?01:41
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Macersomething.. not just keep studying what the ice age was01:42
MacerHitler may have been a rotten bastard.. but i think the world needs fascism01:42
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lbtbut look where the dinosaurs went....01:42
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Macerthey didn't go underground01:42
Macerthey all died and were covered up by lava01:42
* lbt calls Godwin01:42
Macerfascism would point science into tangible things.. our education systems fail due to lack of control01:43
Macerwe have that "pick something you like" thing going on01:43
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Macerwhich in the end results in 1% tangible discovery01:43
Macerand 99% bullshit01:43
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Macer30 years of education wasted just because johnny had a pet horse that died so he decided to become a veterinarian instead of a physisist01:46
Macerand doesn't want to have anybody else lose their pet fish01:46
Macerok... i have to eat....using microwaves to heat water.. now that was a breakthrough01:47
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timeless_mbpsp3000: so...01:53
timeless_mbpi understand why my mbp was unhappy01:53
timeless_mbpand i decided to try to use my new hdd01:53
timeless_mbpsadly i can't follow directions01:53
timeless_mbpso i'll have to try again tomorrow01:53
timeless_mbpso, instead, what am i doing?01:55
timeless_mbpa friend's laptop died01:55
timeless_mbpit's a lenovo01:55
timeless_mbpand it has a "push to destroy all your data" button01:55
timeless_mbpthe system is cute01:55
timeless_mbp30gb for the "destroyable parition"01:55
timeless_mbpabout 200gb for "your data if you're smart enough to manage to hide anything here"01:55
timeless_mbp16gb for the "destroyer source partition"01:55
timeless_mbpit runs vista01:56
timeless_mbpso the OS, ProgramFiles, and WinSxS all live on the destroyable partition01:56
timeless_mbpso does %HOME%01:56
timeless_mbpwhich meant that among other problems, the C: drive was running out of space (yippee)01:56
timeless_mbpbut the "reset your computer" button fixed that problem :)01:56
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timeless_mbpwell... fixed is overstating it01:58
timeless_mbpsince it didn't fix the partitioning to not be insane01:58
timeless_mbpotoh, i'd been waiting for an excuse to reformat the drive w/ a moderately sane partitioning scheme, and it presented itself :)01:59
efeefehi all, just wondering if anyone has a solution for the problem with diablo initfs in n80002:00
efeefe(the shipped initfs is too big)02:00
timeless_mbphow can it be too big?02:01
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efeefetimeless_mbp: I had the following errorwhile flashing the initfs: "usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable"02:02
LiraNunaefeefe, I recently got an N810WE and I have no problem,02:02
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LiraNunaefeefe, are you root? is the USB mounted?02:03
efeefetimeless_mbp: some people say it is too big (2273 kB)02:03
efeefeLiraNuna: not mounted, I'm sudoer02:03
LiraNunaefeefe, what device? what firmware are you trying to flash?02:04
efeefeLiraNuna: n800, trying to flash the latest diablo from
LiraNunaI downloaded it and tested N810EW with no problem; I suppose it's an N800 problem only (if exists)02:05
sp3000google doesn't seem to know much of these some people02:05
infobotLiraNuna meant: I downloaded  and tested N810EW with no problem; I suppose it's an N800 problem only (if exists)02:05
LiraNunanice bot02:05
sp3000if by nice you mean annoying :)02:06
LiraNunasome people don't understand it when I use regexps02:06
sp3000efeefe: did you try again?02:07
efeefeLiraNuna: thanks anyway, I'll try downloading a previous firmware02:07
efeefesp3000: 3 or 4 times02:07
crashanddielol... What Do I Do If JBOSS Explodes My Computer:
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LiraNunaefeefe, sorry I couldn't help02:10
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LiraNunais the maemo repository down for anyone? I can't download software02:49
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LiraNunaseems to be fixed now02:58
xnt¡ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ ollǝɥ02:58
b-man⎼┴␊⎼: %⎽02:59
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crashanddiexnt, that's pretty disturbing03:01
xntbut watch03:01
xnt¿4oɯǝɐɯ ɹoɟ ǝɯǝɥʇ 5oɯǝɐɯ uɐ ǝʞɐɯ ǝqʎɐɯ sʎnƃ03:01
crashanddienot in a bad way03:01
xntguys maybe make an maemo5 theme for maemo4?03:01
xntturn your monitor up side down03:01
crashanddieI'm good thanks03:02
LiraNunaUTF8 ftw03:03
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LiraNunaanyone knows a dash build for maemo?03:03
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LiraNunadoes the maemo sdk contains anything special? or can I compile my own cross compiler (arm-linux-gnu) myself with no problem?03:21
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LiraNuna"E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture." *sigh*03:25
Macerthis debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER03:26
Macerthis debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER03:27
LiraNunathis debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER03:27
Macersorry about that03:28
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mib_bsvo3nIs this for development talk?06:09
Valoiscan somebody help me with easyroot?06:09
Valoisi am using maemo on n80006:10
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zakkm /join #mer07:15
zakkmsorry :(07:15
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CutMeOwnThroat /msg nickserv password ultrasecret07:22
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zakkmwhen i type i tend to press space alot, so i accndeitly did it before /join07:28
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zakkmwhere are maemo menu items located?07:43
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CutMeOwnThroathah, wish I knew where stuff is07:45
CutMeOwnThroatgotta get rid of busybox and install the real stuff07:45
zakkmthe real stuff?07:45
CutMeOwnThroatcan't even use find -type f -exec07:45
CutMeOwnThroatbash2, coreutils07:45
zakkmthose are in extras repository last i checked07:46
CutMeOwnThroatyeah, so?07:46
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CutMeOwnThroatI just mean... gotta get rid of busybox07:46
zakkmwhat would you gain from that?07:47
CutMeOwnThroat(not saying it's specially challanging)07:48
CutMeOwnThroatand I think I said that already07:48
CutMeOwnThroat<CutMeOwnThroat> can't even use find -type f -exec07:49
CutMeOwnThroatthere's no locate either07:49
zakkmtheres a nice "switch to lxde" in my menu that i wnat to install like gnome, and switch that switch to lxde to switch tognome07:50
CutMeOwnThroatbut having a stripped-down find and not knowing where stuff is ... torture07:50
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zakkmyou guys see the new virtualbox supports opengl 3d in linux guests?07:52
RST38h"This NASA imagerecently taken by Mars Rover Spiritshows the 5.9-inch skull of a Martian, with binocular eyes 2 inches apart, 1400 cc cranial capacity, and "most likely a carnivore."07:53
CutMeOwnThroatzakkm, which would e.g. answer your question (in time, but it would) with something like find / -type f -exec grep -il 'switch to lxde" +07:56
CutMeOwnThroat(supposing it's a newish gnu find)07:56
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* RST38h does not need to know why in this case :)07:58
CutMeOwnThroatI love the part where he plays the satanic message without lyrics first and you understand "warble warble satan warble warble"07:58
CutMeOwnThroatRST38h, it's a cool talk... watch it if you got time :)07:59
zakkmstskeeps: hows the smartq?07:59
Stskeepszakkm: so far so good - need tool to create firmware img though08:00
zakkmis it faster than the nokia?08:00
Stskeepssystem is open, already rootable08:00
Stskeeps533mhz vs 400mhz08:00
zakkmi saw 66708:00
zakkmon some info about it08:00
Stskeepsyeah, not sure where it came from08:01
zakkmbut is it a better omap chip and stuff?08:01
Stskeepsits samsung08:01
CutMeOwnThroatRST38h, the talk also actually mentions the face that viking 1 saw 197608:01
Stskeepsarmv6 vfp and it claims armv708:01
zakkmyeah does it perform better though?08:01
zakkmim thinking of selling my nokia n800 and buying the smartq, could still follow mer the same that way hah :P08:02
Stskeepsheck knows. when i get mer on i'll tell you08:02
zakkmand the smartq form factor iss better in my opinion08:02
Stskeepsdpad not there is friggen annoying08:02
Stskeepscrap speaker08:02
zakkmi dont use dpad unless playin vgba, yeah speakers important i guess08:03
zakkmthe form factor is so cool in that though08:03
Stskeepsits also much lighter than my tablet08:04
RST38hCutMe: Oh, the 1976 face is an old story :)08:04
CutMeOwnThroatobviously, being from 197608:04
RST38hit actually looks like a face, under some angles, so there are legions of loonies going for it08:04
CutMeOwnThroatactually not... looks like a face at low-res, as the guy demonstrates in the talk08:05
zakkmstskeeps: does that thing have opengl drivers?08:05
Stskeepsnot in the fs08:05
CutMeOwnThroat(taking a high-res picture and pixelizing it down to low-res)08:05
zakkmheh i want one08:06
RST38hWell the loonies prefer the low res picture :)08:08
RST38hSts" You should actually thank those nameless chinese guys that they have given you real side buttons08:09
RST38hSts: The one I worked on had touch sensors on the side and had to be handled like a freaking grenade )08:10
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Stskeepsebook reading can be compared to 77008:15
RST38hIs the top surface made of glass though?08:15
Stskeepsnot sure08:15
RST38hI mean can you press on it without being afraid of breaking it like the NIT?08:15
Stskeepsfeels like it08:16
RST38hthen on-screel dpad should more or less do the job...08:16
Valoisi need help with airhack08:17
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Stskeepsbut the os is neat but not stylus friendly08:18
zakkmjust curious, do you think nokia will come out with one past 43-7?08:18
Stskeepsyou dont get away with a desktop env on this one08:18
Stskeepszakkm: only to enable community stuff if so08:19
zakkmi like maemo but as soon as i got my n800, 43-7 sort of came out, and its been ages since then so im wondering if they are just going to go straight from 43-7 to maemo 508:19
zakkmis anyone going to use that qt animation framework , or was that just a proof of concept?08:20
Stskeepswell yes, but not for n8x008:20
zakkmso you think 43-7 will be the last update?08:20
Stskeepsthats pretty much how it looks08:21
zakkmthat sucks08:22
zakkmi like the fremantle theme, it looks so cool :D08:23
Stskeepsreason why its good to have a os in community hands08:23
zakkmmer is much different than maemo though08:24
Stskeepsyeah - intentionally08:24
zakkmi like that qt animation framework video ;p08:25
zakkmthat would be sick to make a ui out of :D08:25
zakkmwouldnt it?08:25
Stskeepsmarketings face if their million dollar ui is on some chinese mid before their own release..08:25
zakkmthat could pose a problem08:26
zakkmand fremantle is a different ui than mer08:26
luke-jrfor who? ;p08:26
zakkmmer mainly08:26
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johnxluke-jr, people who enjoy Nokia's participation in open source software ;)08:26
zakkmlast i checked doesnt nokia support mer?08:26
zakkmif mer ends up on some chinese mid before the n900, and marketing gets mad. that could affect mer couldnt it08:27
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zakkmlack of support and such by nokia08:27
johnxzakkm, well they support Mer to some extent08:27
zakkmyeah but im saying, it will do more bad than good08:27
zakkmStskeeps: marketings face if their million dollar ui is on some chinese mid before their own release..08:27
johnxand if Mer ends up on some chinese MID before the N900 is out I don't think it will be nearly as big a deal as if Maemo 5 ends up on some Chinese MID :)08:28
zakkmthat would cause more bad than good08:28
RST38hmer is mostly diablo derived, so what is the problem if it ends up on a chinese mid?08:28
zakkmit becomes a competition?08:28
johnxRST38h, When's the last time you looked at our software versions? ;)08:28
StsN800RST38h, exactly. if we took the new hd though.08:28
RST38hjohnx: about a week ago08:28
luke-jrif the Chinese can do better than Nokia, then who needs Nokia? ;)08:28
RST38hjohnx: but it still looked like diablo pretty much08:29
zakkmi want that smartq5 ! :P08:29
RST38hsame desktop08:29
StsN800we are mostly post-diablo sources08:29
luke-jrzakkm: no keyboard afaik08:29
zakkmdiablo is older08:29
zakkmno keyboard?08:29
luke-jr512 MB RAM *is* nice tho08:29
johnxRST38h, yeah, well, h-d is just about the last Diablo hold-over08:29
zakkmi have a n800, dont have one anyways08:29
StsN800RST38h, not same ver as diablo one - fremanntle api one08:29
RST38hjohnx: but it is the only thing the user sees anyway08:29
StsN800rest is mostly fremantle src08:30
zakkmi still think it needs some animation-like UI .. the tablet08:30
zakkmlike liqbase or something but much more .. system-wide or something08:30
luke-jrmy N810 is building glibc 2.8 ;)08:31
johnxRST38h, yeah. so for purposes of this hypothetical "Chinese PMP" situation, H-D is the only thing that matters. From a programmers point of view it's mostly Fremantle though08:31
johnxluke-jr, why so old?08:31
luke-jrjohnx: old?08:31
johnxnot 2.9?08:32
zakkmwhat if it hates it, and stops being so opensourced, like the tablet and fremantle08:32
luke-jrjohnx: 2.8 just went stable for Gentoo ARM08:32
zakkmwhat exactly is hildon-desktop? is it the window manager?08:32
luke-jris Mer working with 2.9? O.o08:33
johnxluke-jr, of course08:33
johnxzakkm, hildon-desktop is the side and top bar, and when we talk about it we usually are referring to the whole desktop, which includes matchbox window manager08:33
zakkmwhy doesnt mer do that anyways08:34
zakkmthat way its a clone of like maemo.. and just update like that08:34
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johnx"<zakkm> why doesnt mer do that anyways" Sorry, but what do you mean by "do that"?08:34
zakkmhave maemo look08:35
johnxthe old maemo look?08:35
zakkmthe old mer i suppose08:35
johnxwe were for a while, but we like the new look08:35
johnxit frees up more space for status bar applets, more space for apps and keeps the same functionality08:35
johnxwithout too much work you could probably make a set of packages that emulated the old look08:36
zakkmthat would be cool to add in installer :P08:36
zakkm"new look" or "old"08:36
johnxdefinitely. send us the patch :D08:36
zakkmyeahh i been meaing to ask08:37
zakkmwhere would i find the script08:37
zakkmthe "install mer" one08:37
johnxin the merinstaller package :)08:38
johnxit's just an sh script08:38
zakkmyeah i was hoping it was a .sh08:38
johnxor here:
zakkmno download button? :(08:39
zakkmbzr only?08:39
zakkmoh there08:39
zakkmjohnx: wheres the .sh ?08:40
Valoisn 1 here can help me with aircrack?08:40
johnxmerinstaller under libexec08:40
johnxValois, I don't think many people here use it08:41
johnxValois, have you checked the threads on ITT?08:41
zakkmjohnx: if i were to get whole bzr branch.. edit the sh .. copy to nokia, could i compile on nokia and make a deb package?08:42
johnxit's pretty hard to make a deb package on the tablet under Maemo, but it's definitely possible under Mer08:42
zakkmi have mer x86 ?08:42
zakkmon virtualbox08:43
johnxyou could use that too, or ubuntu08:43
zakkmit will work okay in virtual machine?08:43
johnxyeah, I believe so. No need to compile in this case as it's all just sh scripts08:43
johnxjust dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot08:43
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zakkmwhats the .sh for post-install ?08:46
zakkmis there any?08:46
zakkmor is that stuck inside the mer rootfs/08:46
johnxyou mean the thing you see when you first boot Mer?08:46
zakkmi was planning to add extra packages to install08:47
zakkmlike mer installs, and then it automatically apt-get's and gets stuff08:47
johnxpackages that would be installed in Mer or in Maemo?08:47
zakkmi guess i could add chroot to the script?08:47
zakkmand then apt-get -y08:47
johnxyou probably want to make a new fs image ...08:47
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zakkmthat would get complicated though, cause as mer updates, so would the new fs image of mine08:48
johnxeasier to do it once and not have to worry about it08:48
zakkmif its done in merinstaller script, mer can update.. and still have same script for install08:48
johnxah, well, then you could add it to "first-boot-wizard"08:48
zakkmdoes it change often?08:48
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zakkmi guess i could do it and evantually propose it into the actual mer fs08:49
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johnxzakkm, interesting that you ask that. I plan to change it soon, but that change should make it possible to add new "steps" to the "wizard" just by adding your own script08:49
zakkmlike when you boot mer/ mer almost done installing there would be a GUI for like.. "Gnome" "XFCE "hildon" and such and then it apt-get's accordingly, and then again for like specific choices of default web browser/additional ones08:50
johnxhmm...really best off doing that with a different image for that big of a change08:50
johnxI assume you don't want the hildon libs at all08:50
zakkmactually could it be possible to chroot from merinstaller script, and then wget a "firstbootwizard .sh" and replace it ?08:50
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zakkmthat would keep the main image lower filesize i would think08:51
zakkmand still let them have what they want08:51
zakkmSD cards to consider08:51
johnxyeah, technically, but if you want to integrate with Mer at some point, that's not the way to do it08:51
zakkmwell it would get changed at that point i would think , iwas just thinking for testing08:51
zakkmis the rootfs just tar of /  ?08:52
zakkmthe rootfs file08:52
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zakkmah then that could work , that would be cool eh?08:52
johnxin some cases, some packages might not install too well from a chroot though08:52
johnxgive it a test though08:53
zakkmyou think that seems nice though? if it does 100% succeed and work?08:53
zakkmlike a good idea?08:53
johnxhmm? to chroot during the installer?08:53
zakkmhaving a menu of DE/WM choices.. and apt-gets accordingly + software default/install choices08:53
Valois[johnx]: sorry the delay, what is ITT?08:54
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, itt is the forums on ( )08:54
johnxzakkm, thinking about that. gimme a sec08:55
johnxValois, there's a couple threads on aircrack there, but I don't think anyone got it working 100%08:55
Valoisits a web forum?08:55
zakkmthe maemo driver doesnt support packet injection, so it makes it takee impossible times to "crack"08:55
zakkmValois, it would go too slow, its not worth it08:56
zakkmthe nokia's battery would die, before you get the password08:56
Valoisbut couldnt i inject from pc08:56
Valoisthe data?08:56
zakkmcould do it all on pc then? idkk im just saying what i know of aircrack on maemo/tablet08:56
zakkmit works, can install , runs fine08:57
zakkmbut no packet injection08:57
johnxzakkm, so have this menu be part of merinstaller or part of first-boot-wizard?08:57
Valoisthank you08:57
zakkmfor the purpose of disk space i would think merinstaller, but it seems better off/easier as part of first-boot-wizard08:58
zakkmlike if its in installer, you have maemos wifi on, etc etc that it "cant" fail08:58
johnxthe problem with first-boot-wizard is right now there's no network access yet when f-b-w is running08:58
zakkmif its in first-boot-wizard, network isnt started yet08:58
zakkmalso if they dont want hildon.. first-boot-wizard requires hildon doesnt it?08:59
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zakkmi dont know much about mer, but first-boot-wizard seemed gtk/ hildon-dependent08:59
johnxzakkm, right now the package depends on hildon, but the script doesn't.08:59
johnxit would be happy with normal gtk08:59
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johnxI think having merinstaller give you a choice of images to download/install would be easiest09:00
zakkmbut it would be hard to maintain09:00
johnxnot really. we just make a new imager script and run it on every release09:00
zakkmi mean one mer update to 0.14 lets say, that might require 14 images?09:00
johnxthe script runs 14 times, 14 images come out the other end. if the script fails to generate an image, then it would have failed to install on the tablet as well09:01
zakkmyeah i realize the failing part but i mean .. hosting 14 images, if one person wants to change one simple thing thats a whole new image09:01
johnxbut, actually, if you can modify merinstaller so it works nicely and doesn't impact the actual mer install or make it harder to maintain, then sure, go for it09:02
zakkmwhile my main idea was to apt-get.. which would be alot less download size/time and less bandwidth09:02
zakkmthan redownloading a whole image09:02
zakkmand that would require replacing /09:02
johnxif you don't want hildon, you need to at least make one base image though without it09:02
zakkmi do want hildon, i just meant hildon as a choice.. to make it "default"09:03
zakkmlike always have hildon09:03
zakkmotherwise theres no keyboard or anything?09:03
johnxno hildon = no onscreen keyboard09:03
johnxyou'd need to supply another one09:03
zakkmbut if you choose gnome over hildon.. its not hildon doesnt get installed its just its not default WM/DE.. gnome is09:03
johnxah, but hildon is a lot of libraries09:04
johnxright now in mer we have a different gtk than ubuntu uses that has special support for hildon09:04
zakkmis it the same as maemo, just curious09:04
zakkmthe patched gtk09:04
johnxsame as fremantle09:04
johnxso *right now* you can't exactly have hildon-desktop installed at the same time as gnome-desktop in mer09:05
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zakkmyou cant?09:05
johnxthat's correct09:05
zakkmi got fvwm-crystal going in my mer x86 ?09:05
zakkmi just changed xinitrc09:05
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johnxfvwm-crystal != gnome-desktop :)09:05
zakkmis it just gnome?09:06
johnxkde + hildon is ok. lxde + hildon is probably ok09:06
johnxit's just gnome. gnome wants a different version of gtk than we have09:06
zakkmokay so not gnome09:06
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johnxwell, you don't want gnome anyways :)09:06
zakkmor not during beginning anyways09:06
zakkmbaby steps09:06
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johnxfirst, get 512MB of RAM soldered in, then worry about installing gnome ;)09:07
zakkmyeah that too09:07
zakkmi dont know, people said it runs quite fine actually09:07
zakkmi dont believe it , but some people here swear by it09:07
johnxsome people here play chess by mail as well :)09:07
luke-jrGNOME *never* runs fine..09:08
johnxlxde was too slow for me09:08
zakkmperformance wise09:08
luke-jrKDE would be usable were Plasma not a memory hug09:08
zakkmfluxbox, fvwm, openbox, ratpoison, .. im guessing are the choices? :)09:08
johnxzakkm, wmaker :)09:09
zakkmeven for software though09:09
johnxxfce and lxde are usable to some degree09:09
zakkmdidnt penguinbait do wmaker for maemo?09:09
johnxa long time ago09:09
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johnxnot that wmaker changes much these days :/09:09
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zakkmeven software installer though, like "simple software installer"09:11
zakkmi guess application manager is good though so idk09:12
zakkmchoices could be a good thing though09:12
johnxyeah, that's what I ran into too in deblet09:12
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CutMeOwnThroatratpoison should be rather crappy on something that mostly relies on "mouse"09:12
zakkmit was a joke ;p09:12
johnxwell, I like having access to desktop apps, but a lot of the good apps were really for maemo09:12
CutMeOwnThroatzakkm, well, ratpoison would kind of rule because it always goes to fullscreen09:13
zakkmi havent seen ratpoison in years09:13
CutMeOwnThroatit doesn't suit me for sure09:14
zakkmjohnx: was thinking e17 would be a good choice, neatojones was doing it anyways with e17 debs09:14
johnxcould be interesting09:14
johnxdoesn't seem to finger friendly, but that could change09:14
CutMeOwnThroataewm++? :)09:14
zakkmthat would be easily implemented, with his permission but i dont know why he wouldnt approve09:14
Stskeepse17 would be nice if it was friggen done..09:14
zakkmjohnx: e17 has some alternate choices .. not the same as desktop one09:14
zakkmStskeeps: forever beta?09:15
Stskeepsforever svn09:15
zakkmjust downloaded the newest elive disc :D09:15
johnxzakkm, I know. I played with it a bit.09:15
zakkmvirtualbox doesnt like it :(09:15
johnxStskeeps, that's how enlightenment works :)09:15
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zakkmnew virtualbox supports compiz/ecomorph09:15
johnxreally? craziness09:15
zakkmopengl 3d acceleration09:16
zakkmanyways, stskeeps did you listen to my idea for mer?09:16
Stskeepsif you repeat it, i might09:17
zakkmin mer installer script // first boot wizard... having a menu saying "Gnome, hildon, xfce, e17" and lets you select one. .and whichever you click.. the choice would be apt-get -y'd09:17
zakkmand add to xinitrc09:17
Stskeepsyeah, except wifi is not loaded at that point09:18
zakkmi know it has flaws lol09:18
zakkmbut the idea of giving the user choices09:18
Stskeepsmy idea is to have a control panel "Desktop environments", where in AM you can install "xfce-env" and such09:18
Stskeepsand in powerlaunch menu you can have "Switch to LXDE" or "Switch to Hildon"09:18
zakkmi was going to say possibly a app in the menu09:18
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CutMeOwnThroatheh, compiz09:22
CutMeOwnThroatyou already had that09:23
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CutMeOwnThroatbut why not... think the processor is too slow for compiz?09:24
johnxyes. and not enough RAM, and no hardware GL, also, not enough screen space to make it worthwhile09:25
timeless_mbp_your goal is to have no battery after 10 minutes or 5?09:25
johnxbut other than that, yeah sounds good09:25
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CutMeOwnThroatyeah :)09:25
CutMeOwnThroattiny little problems :-P09:25
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zakkm10! :D09:26
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CutMeOwnThroatbattery life of 10 minutes should be worthwhile the eye-candy!09:28
johnxputting that kind of draw on the battery might be a fire hazard09:29
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timeless_mbpfwiw, the device in standard config is supposed to kill itself if it thinks it's overheating09:29
timeless_mbphowever if you go about voiding the warrantee, i will not care if it burns you09:30
johnxheh, unless we're running a modified bme?09:30
CutMeOwnThroatkill itself as in "switch off" or as in "explode"?09:30
timeless_mbpe.g. if you do something like that09:30
timeless_mbpCutMeOwnThroat: yes09:30
CutMeOwnThroatI see09:30
timeless_mbpCutMeOwnThroat: note that asking a boolean logic question is stupid09:30
timeless_mbpthe answer on average will be 'yes'09:31
luke-jrcan it overhead?09:31
luke-jrmy N810 can get pretty hot, but it's never killed itself09:31
CutMeOwnThroatwell... you answer it with something like  as in "explode"!!!!!!1112309:31
timeless_mbpluke-jr: i don't think it can fly or project in default configurations09:31
timeless_mbpbut there is a video out adapter09:31
CutMeOwnThroatthere is?09:32
luke-jris someone equipping their N810 with wings?09:32
timeless_mbpi think i've actually seen protos where the software was a bit overcautious and decided it had overheated and killed itself09:32
timeless_mbp(it wasn't hot, the calibration or software was just confused)09:32
luke-jrmine is very hot right now09:33
luke-jrif it were any hotter, it'd burn me09:33
CutMeOwnThroatthat's not what I'd call "video out"09:33
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CutMeOwnThroatuh, I don't think mine ever got hot yet09:35
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CutMeOwnThroatbut then I've never tried to compile gentoo on it09:35
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CutMeOwnThroathow's it going, btw09:37
CutMeOwnThroatlast I remember was09:37
CutMeOwnThroat<luke-jr>       CutMeOwnThroat: like I said, I'm 82% doen w/ kdelibs09:37
luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: eh, it's upgrading glibc now09:38
CutMeOwnThroatendless fun, indeed09:38
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CutMeOwnThroatwhat advantage would gentoo have?09:38
CutMeOwnThroatcan you take advantage of processor-specific optimizations?09:39
luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: flexibility09:39
luke-jrthat too09:39
luke-jrnot sure how much it helps09:39
CutMeOwnThroatbut maemo would definitely have that, too09:40
CutMeOwnThroatdebian/ubuntu not, though09:40
luke-jrI just got my old Zaurus booted09:41
CutMeOwnThroathow does it perform compared to a desktop x86 processor, btw?09:41
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johnxCutMeOwnThroat, think 350MHz K6 or so09:42
johnxnot a K6-209:42
luke-jrjohnx: eh?09:43
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luke-jrARM should be faster than x86, not slower09:43
johnxluke-jr, really? how's the FPU?09:43
Guest3310_271how get all permission root in emelfm2?09:44
CutMeOwnThroatit's risc... shouldnt that use more commands/task, i.e. be slower?09:44
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CutMeOwnThroatalthough suns ...09:44
luke-jrjohnx: ?09:45
luke-jrCutMeOwnThroat: more instructions run per cycle ;)09:45
johnxluke-jr, how's the vfp vs an x86 fpu?09:46
luke-jrno idea09:46
johnxhint: it's not very fast09:46
CutMeOwnThroatanyway, sun sparcs used to be faster if on the same rate09:46
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CutMeOwnThroathm, I see09:49
timeless_mbpandre__: ping09:49
luke-jrZaurus only has 64 MB RAM :x09:49
timeless_mbpandre__: can you confirm
luke-jrI better not try to run KDE 4 on it09:49
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CutMeOwnThroatprobably no big wonder than that it had problems playing fast movement of a  688x384 film :)09:50
CutMeOwnThroatunable to connect via usb memory card in use... remove memory card09:52
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Guest3310_271how get all permission root in emelfm2?09:53
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ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: what about 688x384 film? btw, FPU is not needed for decoding video09:54
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CutMeOwnThroatssvb, not much... mplayer showed stills when there was a lot of motion09:55
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ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: mplayer is well optimized for x86, this is not the case for ARMv6, additionally memory throughput does matter a lot and memory is not so fast in N80009:57
CutMeOwnThroatthe default player didn't play it, though09:57
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aquatixi think 688x384 is a tad much for a n8x009:58
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ssvbstill mplayer would gain a noticeable performance improvement if optimized more09:58
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CutMeOwnThroatit's optimized to hell...09:58
CutMeOwnThroaton x86 :)09:58
ssvbit does not use HW up to its limit09:58
aquatixssvb: well, have fun with doing so :)09:59
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aquatixwe'll be grateful09:59
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ssvbaquatix: had fun, not anymore :)10:00
CutMeOwnThroatmplayer seems to use floating point units if available for decoding, though10:00
ssvband contrary to popular belief, LCD controller is not at fault for video playback slowness10:01
aquatixssvb: you gave up or something?10:01
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GAN800ssvb, think I could talk you into writing up a general overview of why playback is slow and where people might be able to help?10:02
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: floating point is used for audio decoding, not for video10:02
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CutMeOwnThroatI know... there seem to be lots of discussions on audio decoding performance10:02
CutMeOwnThroatstill looking for video ones10:02
GAN800It's sort of a voodoo magic thing to most people and I think it would help the issue a lot if people knew what was actually going on.10:02
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CutMeOwnThroathm, might try different output modules of mplayer10:04
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ssvbGAN800: mplayer/ffmpeg has a number of functions that have optimized variants for different processors, ARMv6 support is not so good10:04
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usicowAt some stage I had to kill the media player, and since then it doesnt see any media thats on my removable SD card. When I open the media player it says 'refreshing library', but nothing ever happens.. and the CPU looks like its not doing anything at all. Does anyone know how I can fix this?10:04
ssvbGAN800: iDCT can be improved a lot, also motion compensation can benefit from ARMv610:05
timeless_mbpusicow: you probably whacked meta-crawler10:05
ssvbGAN800: LCD bandwidth is good enough for any video with a resolution up to 800x480, CPU chokes much earlier10:08
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CutMeOwnThroatguess mplayer -vo sdl won't do much good :)10:09
ssvbGAN800: LCD bandwidth was a serious problem for old versions of firmware, but not anymore10:09
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: yes, because SDL will try to do YUV->RGB conversion on ARM core, also its scaler is not optimized well10:10
johnxif it's not too complicated, could you say what what changed?10:10
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ssvbjohnx: bugs fixed :) HW is capable of providing 27.5 fps of tear-free 800x480 rgb screen updates, for yuv it's even better because yuv uses 12 bits per pixel and not 16, so it can do more than 30 fps10:12
ssvbjohnx: and LCD bandwidth depends on CPU speed too, it is fastest when CPU is running at 400MHz (the numbers above are for running at 400MHz)10:13
ssvbjohnx: with very old revisions of firmware, CPU was running at 330MHz and it was a problem for graphics too10:14
johnxalso, the default media player switched to 330 to put the DSP at top speed for mp3 decoding, yes?10:15
ssvbyes, it's a problem of the default media player10:15
usicowtimeless_mbp: I have run meta-crawler from a terminal window and it just ran and ended in liek 1 second without any output.. is that what it should do?10:15
zakkm:( arora crashes alot10:16
johnxusicow, have you tried restarting metalayer crawler from /etc/init.d or just rebooting?10:16
CutMeOwnThroatthere's -vo omapfb "nokia 770 video driver"10:16
timeless_mbpusicow: *shrug*, i don't deal w/ meta-crawler10:16
timeless_mbpime it's just pain :)10:16
RaymondL_Hi, one question for virtual keyboard.10:17
timeless_mbpthe virtual keyboard is not programmed to answer questions10:18
ssvbjohnx: still it is not very good that DVFS is not taking graphics activity into account, for example a test application which only pushes updates to screen and does not load cpu much will have pretty bad tearing (cpu will go down to 165MHz, graphics bus is tied to cpu clock speed with some multiplier and as a result screen updates will be extremely slow)10:18
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timeless_mbpnor would something named "keyboard" that was "virtual" be programmed to answer questions10:18
RaymondL_I notice that when the Virtual keyboard is launched, the application window will be automatically resized, so that vkb and app window do not overlap each other10:18
RaymondL_timeless_mbp: :)10:19
crashanddietimeless_mbp, was that funded by Nokia?10:19
usicowjohnx: I have tried that.. but just to be sure I just stopped and started /etc/init.d/meta-crawler0 but still the same problem. Do you think its logging some error somewhere?10:19
ssvbjohnx: forcing cpu to the highest clock frequency helps, that's one of the things that liqbase is doing afaik10:19
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: Artificial Intelligence to answer Interview questions?10:19
timeless_mbpi doubt it, we don't have enough intelligence for normal people to answer such questions10:20
RaymondL_but I search through HIM's code , do not find anything related to this feature. Anyone can throw a light on me?10:20
johnxusicow, probably not. I would look in the metalayer startup script and see if you can figure out a way to run it from the terminal and have it display errors. Sorry, but I don't have much experience with metalayer-crawler...10:20
timeless_mbpRaymondL_: would a lit match do?10:20
crashanddietimeless, "mbp", did Nokia fund that?10:20
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: yes :)10:20
johnxRaymondL_, it's a matchbox window manager feature10:20
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: yes, this driver has the lowest overhead, uses hardware YUV->RGB conversion and scaling10:20
timeless_mbpor would you prefer a molotov cocktail?10:20
CutMeOwnThroatdoesn't seem to do a lot better than xv on my sample, though10:21
RaymondL_johnx: oh, really :) so what is this feature call ?10:21
crashanddietimeless, I asked my company to buy me a Mac, the CFO told me "Bad joke seriously dude"10:21
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: XV is also quite good if colorkey is explicitly disabled10:21
crashanddie(I didn't know he was in the room)10:21
johnxRaymondL_, it's called, pay special attention to a certain window and don't let it overlap the other one :)10:21
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: we have a 3 layer approval process for macs these days10:21
timeless_mbpi have a powerful manager :)10:21
crashanddietimeless, at least you have an approval process10:21
timeless_mbpit came w/in days10:21
timeless_mbpwhereas, it took me a couple of months to get a certain other item10:21
crashanddieI'm still trying to justify the acquisition of a 1TB hard drive10:22
RaymondL_johnx, ok, this nick name is cool. so it's some kind of wm hint?10:22
crashanddie"But, I ran out of space... I have 600Gig worth of VMs ffs"10:22
crashanddie"What is the business requirement for your purchase?"10:22
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: cpu is the bottleneck for your sample, even zero overhead graphics output would not help it much10:22
johnxRaymondL_, matchbox window manager is a full screen window manager. I'm pretty sure the keyboard window is classified as a "dock" (like the panels) and so it won't overlap the application window10:22
johnxRaymondL_, I would interrogate with keyboard window with some X11 tools and see what it's properties are10:23
CutMeOwnThroatfunny, -hardframedrop doesn't help, but creates loads of jpeg artifacts10:23
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: working virtualization and reliable hardware :)10:23
crashanddieis this someone trying to play HD content again?10:23
timeless_mbpand speed10:23
timeless_mbpbecause the windows laptops have to have full disk encryption10:24
crashanddietimeless_mbp, dude we're going to have to talk10:24
RaymondL_johnx, I see.  so without except than matchbox wm, other wm say metacity have similar feature?10:24
timeless_mbpthe mac laptops are only required to use File Vault for Nokia confidential stuff10:24
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: you can try halfresolution decoding, '-lavdopts lowres=1', also if you are running mplayer from console, be sure to use -quiet option10:25
RaymondL_s/without except/except/10:25
infobotRaymondL_ meant: johnx, I see.  so except than matchbox wm, other wm say metacity have similar feature?10:25
crashanddietimeless_mbp, hmm, I'm afraid for us that's going to be a bit more sensitive...10:25
Stskeepsmore sensitive than nokia confidential?10:25
Stskeepsthat's unpossible10:25
RaymondL_infobot: right10:25
infobotblah blah blah/spam spam spam/yaddayaddayaddayadda sis boom bam10:25
johnxRaymondL_, metacity will treat the hildon keyboard pretty differently. If I recall, I don't think it handles it very elegantly. this goes for several other window managers. sawfish can be made to work with it to some degree with a bit of configuration work10:26
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ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: in a somewhat artificial setup, N800 is capable of decoding 480p big buck bunny video in realtime (but without sound) :)10:27
CutMeOwnThroatssvb, right, that helps, albeit making things fuzzy and w some jpeg artifacts as well...10:27
timeless_mbpRaymondL_: fwiw the behavior is actually awful10:27
timeless_mbpso please don't choose to emulate it10:27
timeless_mbpit results in all sorts of problems for web browsers10:27
RaymondL_johnx, OK, so there is no common way to perform this dock task right? sounds bad.10:27
johnxtimeless_mbp, that the window is resized?10:28
RaymondL_timeless_mbp: awful?10:28
timeless_mbpwhich causes the web page to consider self destructing10:28
timeless_mbpbecause it heard about the window size change10:28
timeless_mbpand because there was a feature in n4 where resizes did something strange10:28
crashanddieStskeeps, ;)10:28
timeless_mbpso pages would intentionally reload10:28
Stskeepscrashanddie: ah :P10:28
crashanddieshit, forgot to notice that10:28
timeless_mbpand if you reload the page10:28
timeless_mbpyou typically lose focus from the input field10:28
Stskeepscrashanddie: you say..10:29
timeless_mbpwhich means that there's no need for the input method window10:29
timeless_mbpwhich means it goes away10:29
timeless_mbpwhich means ...10:29
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CutMeOwnThroatssvb, indeed I didn't try the audio options that mplayer suggests (and I'm just mostly playing around ... hadn't really though of watching movies on there... but if it can do it of course... I gotta see how well it does)10:29
johnxRaymondL_, you can set the dock property under any window manager. It's attached to the window, not the window manager after all, but different window managers treat docks differently10:29
RaymondL_timeless_mbp, sounds to me that web browser should fix the problem :)10:30
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: IIRC, some of the audio sampling rates are very bad for performance in mplayer (resampling happens somewhere and kills the performance)10:30
timeless_mbpRaymondL_: you mean by implementing our own window manager and input method?10:30
timeless_mbpgee, tempting10:30
timeless_mbpbut yeah, we're working on it10:30
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LiraNunais there dash for maemo?10:31
johnxs/working on it/dropping the stylus keyboard/ ?10:31
johnxLiraNuna, nope. it's already using ash. There's a bash package10:31
LiraNunabash is heavy10:31
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johnxdash isn't really meant for users, is it? or were you thinking of running a script from somewhere?10:32
CutMeOwnThroatssvb, but I guess the main thing really is "don't try to play a big DivX on a slow CPU!" :)10:32
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: 48KHz audio slows everything down10:32
* johnx remembers this conversation with ssvb and will drop it on a wiki at some point10:32
johnxssvb, so 44.1KHz? Is 22050Hz ok as well?10:33
LiraNunajohnx, of course it's meant for users, ls -l /bin/sh lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2009-02-28 04:04 /bin/sh -> dash10:33
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zakkmnormal 350mb 44min xvid's work fine for me on n800?10:34
ssvbjohnx: 44.1 should be much better, don't know anything about 2210:34
CutMeOwnThroatoh yeah10:34
johnxLiraNuna, I should have said "as a login shell"10:34
CutMeOwnThroatruns fine with -nosound10:34
CutMeOwnThroatnot with -ao null, though - that must still decode and then just dispose of it10:35
CutMeOwnThroatbut that means choosing -ao something won't change things10:36
LiraNunawhat about cross develop on 64bit? maemo sdk refuses to install10:36
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: you can't be sure that it is fine, it could be displayed in "slow motion"10:36
johnxLiraNuna, I know people do it. for the most part you can just hack the installer to not check I think10:36
CutMeOwnThroatssvb, well, it's gone away from the stills... that is "fine"10:37
LiraNunajohnx, can I compile my own toolchain?10:37
CutMeOwnThroattrue, without sound I wouldn't notice if it ran a bit slower10:37
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: that's not fine if you are interested in audio10:37
CutMeOwnThroattoo true10:38
johnxLiraNuna, I don't know anyone who has, but I guess the answer is "technically, yes."10:38
CutMeOwnThroatyou need two of the things :)  one for video, one for audio10:38
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: you can also use -noframedrop option, in this case video will be also smooth, but out of sync with audio10:38
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: and you can adjust playback speed to slow it down a bit, but audio pitch will be wrong10:39
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ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: something like '-speed 0.8'10:41
CutMeOwnThroatthere's actually a cool audio filter10:41
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CutMeOwnThroatscaletempo will adjust the pitch10:41
CutMeOwnThroat(not that that's overly helpful in this case)10:41
CutMeOwnThroatwhich means you can watch videos at 1.8x speed without thinking you're listening to pixies10:42
CutMeOwnThroathm, can one copy&paste in the osso_xterm?10:42
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zakkmwhats wrong with mplayer?10:42
zakkmdoesnt it play well enough for you guys10:43
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ssvbzakkm: it's not perfect :)10:44
zakkmplays perfectly, and theres no way your get 720p going10:44
ssvb480p would be nice :)10:45
zakkmit does?10:45
zakkmnot mpeg-2 tho10:45
zakkm480p xvid works just fine?10:45
ssvbonly on some videos10:45
zakkmtv shows, 175mb/350mb xvid's play fine for me, never notice a framedrop or anything10:45
zakkmsure you got a up-to-date mplayer?10:46
CutMeOwnThroatwell, -lavdopts lowres=1 is probably the way to go10:46
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zakkmthats not 480p then ;p10:46
zakkmthats a lower quality, without encoding10:46
zakkmlowres=1 ..10:47
CutMeOwnThroatit specially fuzzes out quite a lot in between keyframes, if I see that right10:47
ssvbCutMeOwnThroat: it actually decodes at half resolution, for example uses 4x4 idct instead of 8x8 tweaks motion compensation, etc.10:48
zakkmhence = lower quality.10:48
CutMeOwnThroatguess I'll have to choose a different sample :)10:48
zakkmjust use normal 175mb/350mb xvid's10:48
zakkmor if your encoding, go h.26410:49
ssvbthis option is only good when you have some video file and want to play it back on your device (having no possibility to transcode it)10:49
ssvbthe other hacks are using grayscale decoding, this saves some cpu load too10:49
zakkmhave filesize to consider too10:49
zakkmif your at home, use knots it would transcode10:50
CutMeOwnThroatwell, this is 700MB10:50
zakkm700mb what?10:50
zakkmhow many mins10:50
zakkmthat should play perfectly10:50
zakkmwell almost10:51
CutMeOwnThroat RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 688 x 384, 25.00 fps, video: XviD, audio: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (stereo, 48000 Hz)10:51
zakkmthat should play okay10:51
zakkmg2gg sorry10:51
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CutMeOwnThroatnot if there's fast motion10:51
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ssvbzakkm: it depends on how the file was encoded, B-frames are good for performance (can be easily skipped without artefacts), qpel is bad10:52
ssvbzakkm: gmc is extremely bad for performance10:52
CutMeOwnThroathe's gorn!10:53
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CutMeOwnThroathow come your auto-complete didn't tell you :)10:54
ssvbok :)10:54
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ssvbnevertheless default encoding options from xvid are quite good for low cpu usage, but if somebody starts to tweak options, the result may be unplayable on internet tablets10:56
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RaymondL_hmm, seems matchbox-keyboard do resize works under matchbox-wm, by setting the the toolbar type to true11:03
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LordFELhi guys11:22
lardmanmorning all11:23
Stskeepsmorning lardman11:23
CutMeOwnThroatindeed, it's 3AM11:23
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RST38hmoo lardman11:24
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LordFELI was wondering if I could get some help setting up the SDK... I'm getting a weird error about the installer script not being able to run apt-get update inside scratchbox11:27
lardmanhey RST38h11:27
lardmanhey Stskeeps11:27
Stskeepsheh, smartq brand headphones11:28
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t_s_ohey Stskeeps, where did you get hold of your new toy?11:31
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Stskeepst_s_o: a long shot11:36
Stskeepsasked if they would like to donate one to the mer project .. and provided they hold their bargain we get 2 donated and 10 developer rebates11:37
Stskeepsi got one, zenvoid waiting for his11:38
RST38hhave you got their devkit already?11:38
t_s_oholy smokes, thats nice11:38
StskeepsRST38h: not yet. but their community has produced a firmware maker11:39
Stskeepsi just asked yesterday for that info so (kernel plus firmware maaker)11:39
t_s_ohmm, reading a article just now, is this device smaller then the N800?11:41
Stskeepst_s_o: screen size same, but no dpad or kickstand11:41
Stskeepsor good speakers11:41
Stskeepsits a neat low cost tablet11:42
Stskeepsscreen is quite nice and it seems to be armv711:44
Stskeepsand its light11:44
lardmanwhat's this device?11:44
Stskeepssmartq 5 mid11:45
Stskeepsruns ubuntu 8.0411:45
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* lardman is looking for something MID-like11:46
lardmanno kb though?11:46
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lardmanlooks cool though, and very cheap11:47
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lardmanI used Navicore (or whatever it's called now) to navigate to and from Norfolk this weekend, and it was pretty good11:49
lardmanI don't know what people were complaining about, other than the "take turn now" once you've already turned down it/gone past it ;)11:49
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lcuklardman - "at the traffic circle"11:57
lcuktracy loves todd11:57
lardmanno, it says roundabout I think doesn't it?11:57
lcuki think it depends which voice11:58
lardmanby that point my codriver has already told me which exit and I'm lining up on the racing line...11:58
lardmanleft 40, do not cut, flat in 4th11:58
lcukheh yeah so u survived then11:58
lardmanyeah, no phone signals in Norfolk though, quite a quiet weekend11:58
lcukthats a good thing11:58
lcuki have only ever been there once11:59
t_s_oif its the gps system used on the tablets, i think people is complaining about the "hidden" cost...11:59
lcukyes t_s_o i agree there11:59
lardmanyeah perhaps, I got a licence + new Nokia GPS (i.e. BT, one which works) for £30 or so11:59
lcukbut the functionality itself is worth having12:00
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lardmanthose sirfstar3 GPSes are bloody wonderful, drive a few hundred miles, turn it on and it's locked in about 10s flat inside a car12:01
t_s_oheh, now im tempted to get myself a new one. i got a sirf2 or something as i didnt do my research properly...12:02
t_s_onot that i use gps much so...12:02
* lardman wonders, GPS navigation which outputs pacenotes.... :)
lcukyeah, what it doesnt tell u is that it uses a camera, looks at the sky and uses stars properly ;)12:02
LiraNunaScummVM works really well on the N81012:02
* lcuk crashes vista for the 10th time this mornin12:02
lardmant_s_o: over here you can get them for next to nothing (not the Nokia one, but same chipset) i.e. £30, I'd recommend it over the previous gen12:02
lardmanlcuk: well in Norfolk that might actually work, you can see more than 3 stars there!12:03
* timeless_mbp looks for a nokian12:03
* timeless_mbp considers walking to work to hunt one down12:04
lardmantimeless_mbp: bow or gun?12:04
timeless_mbpandre__: thanks12:04
timeless_mbplardman: leash12:04
timeless_mbpi just need someone to try logging into a mailbox12:04
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timeless_mbpactually, a net would work too12:04
timeless_mbpor snare12:04
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LiraNunaDotT works really really nice on the N810, even without HW accel12:12
RST38hwhy would it require hw acceleration?12:12
LiraNunalarge rendering buffer12:13
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LiraNunaI see no tearing which is nice12:13
RST38hit is just showing pictures12:14
RST38hshowing a static picture has never been a problem really12:14
lcukRST38h, apart from on Stskeeps' dodgy n80012:19
lardmanoo, I've got 65 for discussion karma now, I think that's more than I had before12:20
lcukarent u a moderator now - cant u just adjust your karma to whatever you want12:21
lcukor tell ppl to thank you or be banned (mwahahahah)12:21
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RST38hlcuk: that;s a feature12:28
lcukits only a feature if you can control it !12:32
wjtfeh. ScummVM really suffers from it being impossible to hover over things without clicking them12:35
wjtI found Beneath a Steel Sky pretty hard as a result12:35
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RST38hlcuk: He can turn it on and off!13:03
lcukwjt, you can hover over things, but the system cannot detect you doing so13:03
RST38hthat's control, isn't it? B)13:03
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lcukRST38h, thats a good point13:03
wjtlcuk: well yes :)13:03
lcukso to stop scrolling he shuts down pc13:03
wjtlcuk: i think it would have been better to have clicking mapped to hovering13:03
wjtlcuk: and to use the zoom buttons as LMB/RMB13:03
lcukwjt, not at all13:03
wjtlcuk: not in the entire tablet13:04
wjtlcuk: just for scumm13:04
wjtbecause quite a few scumm puzzles depend on you scrubbing for usable objects13:04
lcukbetter to have a windowing system that is happy with a mouse pointer that isnt continuous and will warp13:04
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RST38hlcuk: and made of bacon.13:10
superjoeRST38h: I'm reading your emulator howto pages13:11
superjoegood stuff13:11
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lardmanlcuk: sorry for the tardy reply, had to get caffeine to counteract the swine flu13:15
lardmanlcuk: no discussion karma is for ml posts13:15
lardmananyway, when do we expect the n900?13:17
* lardman attempts to get back in the loop13:17
lcukyou missed it, we are aiming for the n910 now :P13:18
lardmandrat! ;)13:18
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X-Fadelardman: You don't have one yet? Everybody in here has had it for a long time ;) You're really missing out!13:19
lcukmornin X-Fade '\o13:20
lardmanX-Fade: :p anyway aren't you supposed to be working out where my Discussion karma has leaked away to? ;)13:20
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X-Fadelardman: One thing to check is if it at least grows when you post a message now.13:20
lardmanok, I'll have a look at that13:21
lcukcan we rename karma pinocchio13:21
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lardmanAnyone have any recommendations for usb-vga adaptors? Are they all SiS based?13:32
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GAN800lardman, MTK is better than SiRF13:34
GAN800Stskeeps, is it a Cortex?13:34
lardmanGAN800: you reckon?13:34
StskeepsGAN800: samsung13:34
Stskeepskernel claims it's armv713:34
GAN800lardman, the Startech is good for Linux compat.13:35
GAN800Stskeeps, then is it Cortex?13:35
lardmanI'm looking at cheapness as a major factor here13:35
GAN800lardman, MTK has vastly better powersaving. SiRF IIIc is more inline, but nobody ships it.13:36
lardmanfair enough, with a stand alone it doesn't make much odds though as the batteries are pretty big13:36
GAN800Stskeeps, because if it's ARM11, as I've so often heard, then that makes exactly zero sense.13:37
radicis the use of hwclock --systohc not needed on the N800?13:37
GAN800lardman, my i-Blue can easily run for 25 hours active.13:37
GAN800The VGA adaptors are about as cheap as they get.13:38
lardmanthat's longer than my n810 will run... so not necessary for me anyway. I think my SirfStar3 ones will last something like 15h, which is more than enough13:38
* GAN800 thinks the nightmare he just woke up from probably has good potential as a horror flick.13:38
lardmanthose are pretty dear over here ~£75 afaict13:39
GAN800lardman, the i-Blue can sit for a week idle, however.13:39
GAN800Anyway, point is, MTK is usually cheaper, too.13:39
lardmanyeah but that's down to the gps controller, not the chipset, it switches it off and assumes that it can fast fix to overcome any problems13:40
GAN800Stskeeps, something REALLY isn't meshing up there.13:40
GAN800Stskeeps, is it or is it not a Cortex A8?13:41
lardmananyway I've not got an MTK one so I can't really comment, ss3 just looked a better bet when I bought one last year13:41
StskeepsGAN800: well, it's armv6+vfp definately13:41
GAN800lardman, SiRF III units don't do that.13:41
GAN800You didn't look hard enough then. :P13:42
GAN800Stskeeps, I dunno what to say, if it aint Cortex, it aint armv713:42
lardmanyes they do13:42
lardmananyway I'm quite contented :)13:43
StskeepsGAN800: i'm baffled too really13:43
GAN800The fairly obvious answer is that somebody is lying13:43
GAN800and that you should perpetrait the lie yourself. :P13:44
Stskeepsthey only claimed a certain samsung chip at least13:44
infobotGAN800 meant: and that you shouldn't perpetrait the lie yourself. :P13:44
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GAN800Whatever, I just woke up.13:44
lardmando vs continue13:45
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GAN800This is really rather clearly ARM11:
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GAN800So it really can't also be armv713:47
genewitchI just recommended the n800 to a bunch of people for use in journalism, in combination with Wifi-SD cards for their cameras and a cellphone connection. :-)13:48
genewitchthey tend to get arrested a lot, i figured there's no way to destroy evidence if it's already been uploaded with a script :-)13:48
lardmanperhaps they are just getting confused with the hw vs instruction set naming13:48
lardmani.e. arm7 is the instruction set13:48
GAN800ARM11 is13:48
lardmanis the name of the hw13:49
Stskeepseither way13:49
Stskeepsi got their kernel and FW imaging scripts.13:49
* RST38h can't quite understand why having a certain ARM chip makes such a big difference13:49
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Stskeepscos it'd be awesome if it was armv7 and that cheap? :P13:50
Stskeepsthis is the kind of tablet we can't rely on dpad interaction on13:51
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Stskeepsoh, and , i didn't paste in here i think :P13:53
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GAN800lardman, ARM11 is armv6. There's no confusion there.13:53
lardmanfair enough13:54
lardmantoo many numbers for my liking :)13:54
lardmanwhatyamacallit version 11 that is13:56
lcukStskeeps, how well does it run13:56
Stskeepslcuk: good13:56
lcukis the framebuffer nice13:56
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GAN800Engadget had a story recently about some idiot campaigning for less 'technical' language. Dont use words like 'desktop', etc.13:57
lcuknothing wrong with less technical, there are more people without computer knowledge than with :)13:58
GAN800lcuk, there is when your definition of 'technical' is was off.13:58
infobotGAN800 meant: lcuk, there is when your definition of 'technical' is way off.13:58
lcuki know a lot of people who would be banging on the wooden worktop when you said click on the desktop13:59
* lardman thinks desktop is reasonably straight-forward, in the same way as door-handle, etc13:59
GAN800For instance, what would you have mechanics call fuel injectors? Or sparkplugs? Those are technical terms by this guy's definition.13:59
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lcukgan800 nothing wrong with technical people talking technical terms at each other14:00
GAN800There's a reason for 'technical' language, and that's because specific names for specific things are easier than describing everything as a 'widget' or 'whatchamadoo'14:00
lardmansecret car bits that live under the bonnet?14:00
* lcuk doesnt know how a fuel injector works14:00
lardmanwould lcuk like a lesson....?14:00
GAN800lcuk, nor is there in the expectation that people's vocabularies should exceed 2000 words.14:01
genewitchit has a hole, and fuel goes through it14:01
lcukheh nope, i have my comfort zone, john up the street fixes the car, i fix the comp[uters14:01
lcukthe worst is telling a non computer person to right click on something, they always mishear you and think you said "right, click on ...."14:03
lcukso you have to reword it as click with your right mouse button - yes the one on the right hand side14:03
GAN800Must be a UK thing.14:04
GAN800We never really say, 'Right, . . . ' over here in that particular context.14:05
lardmanso that's why they always know I'm a Brit14:05
lcukand thats why assumptions of acceptable language are not universal and keeping it as simple as possible is good14:06
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GAN800There's a point at which 'simple' makes things vastly more complicated as you don't have anything specific enough to describe what you're talking about and end up having to describe things as 'widgets' and 'thingamabobs'.14:07
GAN800This is the line that the guy crossed.14:08
GAN800Ah, penguinbait, classy Planet post with classy comments.14:08
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cosmo_heh, looks like my mer is broken14:15
cosmo_it's in reboot loop14:15
Stskeepswe have reboot loops? jffs edition?14:16
t_s_oStskeeps: another mer target?
RST38hStskeeps: Got Mer running on that PMP? =)14:18
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radicStskeeps: is an proxy available for contentfiltering?14:20
Knirchcan someone please set me straight if I'm wrong, but just read this ticket: which is marked as resolved, in freemantle, will freemantle eventually run on a n810? if not, how on earth can that ticket be considerd resolved? is there a FAQ regarding nokia made bugfixes where I can read up on policy instead?14:21
StskeepsRST38h: yup14:22
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StskeepsRST38h: it's actually more of a MID14:23
t_s_oKnirch: lets just say its a hot topic on the forum ;)14:23
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Knircht_s_o: right, so it's the same situation as it's been since 770? I thought that had changed :/ thanks14:23
StskeepsKnirch: on the other hand Mer is in good progress14:24
KnirchStskeeps: aye14:24
Stskeepsso the community will have a OS in their hands they control14:24
t_s_oStskeeps: is the wifi power save working in mer?14:24
Stskeepst_s_o: yeah, it does now - (on n8x0?)14:24
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usicowAt some stage I had to kill the media player, and since then it doesnt see any media thats on my removable SD card. When I open the media player it says 'refreshing library', but nothing ever happens.. and the CPU looks like its not doing anything at all. Does anyone know how I can fix this?14:30
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SavagoHello there, good morning.14:30
SavagoI'm trying to compile some Qt code on fremantle sdk, but got some linker errors:
SavagoAnyone has an idea of what could be missing?14:31
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aapohi, I'm porting game named openttd to maemo (diablo). It works but it has "famous" sdl-not-showing-window-in-list-issue and I cant fix it. What is current solution for it?14:32
Stskeepsaapo: isn't it already ported?14:32
* Stskeeps remembers playing it14:33
* glass remembers it having been ported in the 770 days14:33
lcukaapo, for a window to show in the list it has to be registered with osso/hildon i think14:34
lcukotherwise you are an outcast and your handle falls by the wayside14:34
lcuka shame really14:34
RST38hStskeeps: !!!14:34
StskeepsRST38h: less than 24 hours it took me14:35
aapoStskeeps, I didn't found current release and compiled it. Very few patches needed14:35
StskeepsRST38h: and i have the kernel and the GPL imager now14:35
* RST38h hurrahs thrice14:35
Stskeepsinitially i thought it didn't work, but the problem was actually the backlight off ;p14:36
lcuk"let there be light"14:36
Stskeepssshed in and turned backlight on .. :)14:37
lcukdo you  think god used ssh  too?14:37
KnirchI bet he wrote a script in lisp14:37
RST38hGod used makefiles.14:37
RST38hNamely, He used gmake, that's where g- came from.14:38
GAN800Knirch, Nokia is helping backport the Fremantle stuff through Mer.14:38
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StskeepsGAN800: doesn't apply to media player though14:38
Stskeepswhich was the example :)14:38
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X-FadeStskeeps: Did you notice any problems with sysv-rc vs mini-rc?14:39
KnirchGAN800: ok, doesn't change anything though, one would expect software issues to be resolved in the device I own, with the firmware I bought14:39
StskeepsX-Fade: for the fremantle stuff? don't think so14:39
Stskeepsthey're switching to upstart anyway14:39
KnirchGAN800: I do like Mer, even more so due to stuff like this14:39
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, I guess that is what mini-rc is for?14:39
X-FadeStskeeps: At the moment we aren't able to build any package, which uses nokia-binaries, because it wants to install mini-rc14:40
X-FadeWhich in turn removes sysv-rc ;)14:40
StskeepsX-Fade: ah, i didn't look at mini-rc at all14:40
Stskeepsas in14:40
KnirchGAN800: It's just depressing to see they _still_ do this, fix something for the upcoming devices and leave the old ones behind, regardless of support for community project, hack editions whatnot14:40
lcukKnirch, which bug?14:41
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Knirchthe one I used as an example to ask my question was this:
GeneralAntillesKnirch, in this case, it's more justified than not.14:43
Stskeeps"metalayer-crawler is a POS"? :P14:43
lcuklol t_s_o14:43
KnirchGeneralAntilles: as an example14:43
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usicowwhat is the latest version of maemo os2008?14:44
GeneralAntillesIt's a weak deal, sure, but the reality is that Nokia can't deliver Fremantle with the experience they want to have on OMAP2 hardware.14:44
X-FadeStskeeps: Anyway, it is giving me a lot of pain right now ;)14:44
KnirchGeneralAntilles: that's an absurd argument14:44
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StskeepsX-Fade: my gripe is mostly with scratchbox-isms currently.. i hope it will be a requirement for extras to not contain sb-isms, heh :P14:44
GeneralAntillesKnirch, you wouldn't say that if you were familiar with the hardware and software involved.14:44
Stskeeps(using maemian checks)14:44
Knirchwhat you're saying is that my current hardware is incapable of sorting14:45
Stskeepsah, so it's the "no more updates for diablo"14:45
GeneralAntillesKnirch, no, I'm not talking about any specific bug.14:45
* Knirch headdesks14:45
GeneralAntillesI'm talking about Fremantle on OMAP2.14:45
KnirchI understand that freemantle won't run on my current device, I'm fine with that14:45
Knirchdevelopment can't stand still14:45
GeneralAntillesSince Fremantle was menionted earlier, I assumed that was what this was about.14:45
Knirchbut _bugfixes_14:46
KnirchGeneralAntilles: yes, the bug is resolved since it's resolved in freemantle14:46
GeneralAntillesAnyway, Media player sucks. Why would anybody want to use it over the dozen and one open source community alternatives?14:46
Knirchand yet again, I only used that as an example to ask my question which has been answered14:47
lcuktechnically because its the simplest and most default and installed everywhere and generally "works"14:47
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* RST38h is kinda concerned that of all the applications Nokia provides with its device, only MicroB works semidecently14:47
Knirchthat almost no more bug will be fixed in nokia branded software for my current device, just like it was when I only had the 770 :)14:47
RST38hs/applications/major end-user application14:47
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this is why I think people shouting for more bundled applications and bundled community applications are silly.14:48
RST38hGeneral: I just think Nokia has to put its act together14:48
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RST38hThe main usage cases (web,mail,music,video,photo) should sparkle14:49
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GeneralAntillesI'm thinking it'll come together with Fremantle onward.14:50
timeless_mbpRST38h: sparkle, crack, pop... ?14:50
GeneralAntilleslcuk, oh, and that's a stupid reason to hamstring yourself with shitty software.14:50
timeless_mbps/pop/poop/ ?14:51
lcukwhat is? minimal working stuff - when i need it it works - i still use shitty winamp here at home because it does what i need and doesnt try to get in my way14:51
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GeneralAntillesIt's actually a good thing that MicroB sucks so much, as its endless focus and virtual input bugs are the only things forcing me to use a real computer.14:51
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ShadowJKinput bugs? What are those? I haven't found those yet :-)14:53
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lcuktimeless_mbp, did you forget to remove those #ifdef user==GAN things again14:53
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, the fact that the finger keyboard just plain doesn't work.14:53
ShadowJKmy N800's touchscreen is still not too crap to use the stylus keyboard with finger14:54
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GeneralAntillesI'm utterly amazed OS2008 made it out the door and THEN managed to ship updates for a year and virtual input is still so UTTERLY BROKEN.14:54
GeneralAntillesIt's the one thing that regularly makes me want to punt my tablet out a window.14:54
lcukcan we have a video whilst you do?14:55
ShadowJKand on my N810 I'd rather use the finger keyboard with fingers, but alas once the touchscreen goes insensitive it no longer distinguishes between stylus and fingertap..14:55
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lcukShadowJK, yeah x11 picks up the stylus input using a threshhold - if i use native x11 mouse events i get broken strokes and missed input14:55
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lcukbut using the xsp pressure library it registers whole strokes14:56
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lcuki keep pondering if the threshhold can be changed, but x11 is big and imposing14:57
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Stskeepsafternoon jeremiah_14:59
ShadowJKI'd want a different threshold for different parts of the screen...14:59
lcuka few people have said that - basically a pair of glasses14:59
lcukbut for x11 and gtk you dont need that14:59
lcuksince pressure isnt natively required15:00
Stskeepshack up tslib? :P15:00
lcukyou simply need to know when you touched it15:00
lcukStskeeps, the problem is how do you configure it - it would have to be a warp map as well15:00
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lcukand it would have to adjust with temp and stuff15:00
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lcukgranted, if it were a nasa project we would reprocess all input and throw it through a mask and out the other side15:01
lcuk(like hubble had done)15:01
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ShadowJKlcuk, well I'd want it to require the same pressure to register as click everywhere... I think it'd be much nicer to use if I had to stab it everywhere, instead of having this ring where literally just touching it registers as click, and a circle in the middle that requires serious stabbing to register as click, and the edges that require pressure somewhere in between. When I type on the onscreen keyboards, when I move from a letter on the sensitive area to a15:02
ShadowJKletter on the insensitive area, I start losing letters because what worked for the previous letters don't work for the other ones15:02
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lcukShadowJK, you really wouldnt notice - a touch is a touch15:03
* Stskeeps ponders how much power budget that USB port has15:03
lcukif your screen is soooooooo bad its not registering anything at all unless punched no amount of hacking will work15:03
lcukStskeeps, 8x0 or q?#15:03
ShadowJKOh but what registers are click on the sensitive area, didn't produce any visible results (or randomly distorted results) when I tried liqbase as you suggested15:03
Stskeepslcuk: q515:04
Stskeepsit is shown with a gprs dongle so15:04
ShadowJKlcuk, hack the thresholds so that I need a punch everywhere :-)15:04
ShadowJKi.e. different threshold for different areas of screen15:04
lcukbut if the pressure isnt reporting being touched thats a different issue15:04
lcukyou just said its not reporting correctly from liqbase - in that case thats worse15:05
lcuksince im asking the xsp library directly for pressure readings15:05
ShadowJKI can touch the screen with stylus (lightly) on all of the screen without seeing anything drawn in liqbase15:05
X-FadeShadowJK: It is a resistive touchscreen. You need to apply some presure.15:06
ShadowJKif I apply minimal of pressure, there's a "halo" where stuff is drawn, basically a circular band that excludes the middle and the edges15:06
ShadowJKif I apple moderate pressure, it registers on the edges too15:07
ShadowJKif I apply lots of pressure, it registers on the entire screen15:07
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ShadowJKNow obviously the screen is reporting different pressure values for the same amount of physical pressure, depending on where on the screen I'm pressing... So I'd want a a way to calibrate either the pressure reporting, or the thresholds15:08
lcukbut if the screen is NOT returning any reported values for a particular location (using the pressure library) then how can changing the threshhold help15:09
lcukthat is a different issue to the one i am talking about15:09
ShadowJKthen I don't know what issue you're talking about?15:09
lcukim talking about getting broken lines and missing clicks when i DO click hard enough and there are values reported in pressure library, but x11 takes a hard threshhold and if you press over that it registers a mousedown15:10
ShadowJKhuh, if you press too hard?15:11
lcuki know how hard to press because i am writing all the time, i also know when i have compiled liqbase to include or exclude pressure support because when im writing it comes out broken using x11 alone and together when using pressure library15:12
ShadowJKhm, do you want it to not register mouseup until no pressure at all is registered?15:12
lcukbut anyway, enough typin for today15:12
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* ShadowJK was talking about the thing not registering taps15:13
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ShadowJKAnyway... what I would like is a tap-calibration... Provide calibration targets, say 16 x 8 of them or more... have me tap all of them with equal pressure (how to do this is left as an excercise to the reader ;), record the reported pressure, interpolate it over all of the screen, and use that as threshold for reporting mousedown15:15
RST38hAnd how do you intend to maintain the same pressure between taps?15:16
ShadowJKOh temporarily tape a AAA battery to the stylus and just use fingers to guide it to stand on the targets, or something similar..15:17
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RST38hDo you expect this to be included into the paper user manual? =)15:18
usicowhow can I tell if meta-crawler is working or not?15:18
ShadowJKRST38h, they could include a plastic widget for it :)15:19
RST38hInclude a single AA battery, then watch poor users as they try to insert it into the gadget15:20
usicowWhen I run meta-crawler in debug mode I get 'Segment fault' how could I get more information about why thats happening?15:20
usicowmetalayer-crawler rather15:21
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RST38hmake it drop a core then gdb meta-crawler core15:22
ShadowJKRST38h, the obvious solution is to not have crapass touchscreen15:22
ShadowJKBut failing that, I guess you have to fix the hardware in software somehow15:23
RST38hShadow: Or, at least, do not bend it during installation15:23
X-Fadeusicow: if you create a folder called core-dumps in the root of your mmc1, you should get a core dump.15:24
ShadowJKI wonder what Nokia Care would tell me about touchscreen sensitivity15:24
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ShadowJKwould they tell me it's fine as long as a alkaline D battery attached to stylus registers as click? :-)15:24
RST38hThey will tell you it is absolutely normal15:25
RST38hAnd if you ask why an application X does ot register pressure evenly, they will tell you thta they do not support 3rd party apps15:25
ShadowJKbut it's noticeable in... Sketch!15:26
RST38hIs Sketch a bundled app?15:26
ShadowJKthe stylus keyboard too15:26
RST38hThis will make 'em think a little bit then come up with some other explanation15:26
ShadowJKthey'll blame my operator15:27
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RST38hThe last bubble in their diagram is probably "send your device for repairs"15:27
ShadowJKhaving attached an AAA battery to my stylus now with a cabletie...15:28
ShadowJKthe upper edge of hte screen notices nothing :)15:28
RST38hShadow: Just drop it from a bigger height15:29
ShadowJKI'm not dropping at all15:29
ShadowJKI should post pic of stylus with battery to ITT and claim it's a call-home feature of the N900 stylus, so you can find it when you lose it15:32
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lcukif you genuinely want to find a reproducable testing mechanism, using a steel ball bearing of specified diameter and density and roll it around the screen.  (like the game lbt mentioned last night)15:32
RST38hoh yesss15:33
ShadowJKYeah I was thinking something liek that would be ideal15:33
RST38hin fact, there is no need for a specific diameter or density15:33
RST38hbecause you are looking for relative values15:33
lcukcourse there is - if i used a pingpong ball vs a steelie it wont be the same15:34
ShadowJKwell, with stylus and AAA I can paint approx 75% of the screen :)15:34
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RST38hyea, you want it to be heavy enough15:34
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usicowis there a way to scan and correct any corruption on an SD card in the N810?15:52
timeless_mbpany corruption?15:52
timeless_mbpthere's a way to scan sd corruptions for certain corruptions15:52
timeless_mbpbut we can't guarantee that we would understand any random corruption15:52
usicowfair enough.. :)15:52
timeless_mbpit's available from file manager15:53
timeless_mbpyou should of course be running the latest os release15:53
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ShadowJKlooks like tslib's linear module has stuff for pressure scaling16:13
ShadowJKbut no way to set it :)16:13
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RST38hIf I rmemeber correctly, the device returns an 8bit pressure reding16:19
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RST38hHowever you scale it, it is still a faulty 8bit pressure reading16:19
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* man_in_ltop waves16:44
man_in_ltopso i've been playing nethack on maemo16:44
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man_in_ltopit's got some annoying quirks :D16:45
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man_in_ltopOooh, i remember what's i wanted17:08
man_in_ltopdictionary for maemo :D17:09
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man_in_ltopi see dict client, but i want something stored locally :)17:09
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lardmanstardict or something like that17:13
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lardmanthere are a couple of them around, or there were anyway17:13
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woglindehi lardman17:14
lardmanhey woglinde17:14
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Macertrying to install some working printer drivers for this stupid brother laserprinter17:35
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man_in_ltopanyone tried nethack on maemo? :)17:39
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RST38h"For those a little delicate, we have tried them, and although they be a little sandy, they are delicious."17:40
RST38hGuess (without Google) what it was about17:40
man_in_ltopsomething that you normally see in porn?17:41
RST38hmmm, no, not really17:41
RST38hwould be too simple17:41
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RST38hno gadget porn either.17:41
man_in_ltopam i warmer?17:41
Macernow the gnome printing utility just disappeared17:44
Macerbecause apt-get removed it for i can't even understand what reason17:44
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RST38hman: not at all17:45
RST38hAny more takers?17:45
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RST38hOk, the answer:
andre__Macer: what is a "gnome printing utility"? print dialogs, or talking about a specific package?17:48
Macerthe little printing app that pops up under administration17:49
Macerfor some reason apt-get removed it and i don't know what pkg it is a part of17:49
Maceri thnk i found it17:51
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Macerthat made no sense17:51
Maceri have no idea why apt-get would remove something like that when it is in use17:51
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Macerwell.. got it working17:54
Macerthat was a bigger pain than i thought it would be :)17:54
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GAN800andre__, you want to start a pool on when we'll get an answer on 3602? :P18:23
jeremiah_GAN800: I'm in. 10 Euros says not until June.18:24
jeremiah_Oops. Should have read the whole thread.18:24
jeremiah_I take it back.18:25
jeremiah_That might never get answered.18:25
andre__i should fly to helsinki, get a list of people that don't answer, and block their doors until i get one. ;-)18:25
andre__GAN800, got some bugzilla template file somewhere?18:26
GAN800andre__, got a local copy of the svn I've been poking at.18:26
andre__oh nice18:26
andre__(sorry for responding so late)18:26
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GAN800I think I might need to reclone and start over, though.18:26
andre__and? works(tm)? :)18:26
GAN800Dunno, got nothing to test it with.18:27
GAN800I moved the footer stuff into the sidebar18:27
andre__but can you send me a patch?18:27
GAN800Which I don't think will work.18:27
andre__hmm, that might be... confusing18:27
ShadowJKandre__, how about recruiting someone in here to deliver a copy of the question, constructed by cutting out letters from magazines and gluing to a sheet of paper, to their mailboxes?18:27
GAN800Um, yeah, probably tomorrow18:27
andre__GAN800, well, options stuff isn't needed that often IMO (at least not for average users), hence bottom is probably preferable18:28
GAN800Any chance of testing it somewhere or do I need to setup a local install?18:28
andre__we should test it on testzilla IMO18:28
andre__ShadowJK, now that sounds like a plan! :)18:28
GAN800I'll work on it tonight and toss you a patch tomorrow.18:29
jeremiah_There are loads and loads of packages that do not have the right maintainer in maemo.18:29
GAN800I like the ones with Ubuntu mailing lists as maintainers.18:29
jeremiah_If we are going to start rejecting or demoting packages, we need to have the right email address of whomever uploaded the package.18:29
jeremiah_GAN800: lol18:29
jeremiah_I haven't seen that yet. :)18:29
jeremiah_I wonder if we can co-ordinate the garage email address with uploading a package?18:30
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jeremiah_And spit out an error message if they don't match?18:31
GAN800I wish we could get the goddamn categories out the door so we can start harassing maintainers18:31
GAN800So far all we've freaking gotten from Nokia for Mer and continued Diablo support is a lot of hot air.18:32
jeremiah_GAN800: Yeah, that is a good think too.18:32
jeremiah_Sorry, what I am trying to say is I agree with you.18:33
jeremiah_fingers    so     cold18:33
ShadowJKneed more hot air18:33
jeremiah_BTW, this is a little weird, but works:
GAN800Can't even get them to look at work-free website patches.18:33
* GAN800 sighs18:33
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jeremiah_I need to strip the icons somehow, but otherwise.18:33
GAN800I miss the maemo applications wiki page.18:34
jeremiah_Try 'chrpath' for example18:34
GAN800The Days Before Extras18:34
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torkiano :(18:42
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torkianois there a aptitude port for maemo?18:43
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jeremiah_torkiano: I haven't seen one.18:44
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timeless_mbpandre__: ping18:45
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andre__timeless_mbp, pong18:46
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timeless_mbpso, about my notes bug18:46
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timeless_mbpcan you please hit them with a cluebat18:46
timeless_mbpa quick test shows that you don't "always" get that error message18:46
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timeless_mbpand any sane person would tell you that you can't usefully give that error message18:47
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andre__please hit them yourself. see the int ref in the alias field...18:47
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timeless_mbpyeah, i looked18:47
andre__it's really easier. you have access to test that stuff18:47
timeless_mbpi'm now more depressed than i was before18:47
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andre__even if you hate discussing it directly with them ;-))18:47
timeless_mbpyou can see why!18:47
andre__yeah. i've seen enough such cases.18:47
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qgilGeneralAntilles: hi, do you remember whether there is a high-res logo somewhere in
GAN800Still haven't managed to round up an svg of the favicon. . . .19:09
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iamlindoroHi Guys, having some trouble with maemo/n810 and hoping it might be a common issue-- Attempting to use the n810 in USB host mode to serve as the master for a device my company is building-- plug in the device, issue lsusb (and see expected results), and the system hangs within a few seconds, then resets itself.  Thinking it might be power related, but have tried the same through a powered hub and the problem persists-- Our device19:56
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Stskeepsand i presume you did enable usb host, after rmmod g_file_storage?19:58
iamlindoroDid the former, had not tried the latter19:58
iamlindoroCan give that a shot if you think it might help19:59
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Stskeepsgive it a try :)19:59
iamlindorosure, thanks, will do that right now19:59
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iamlindoroHmm, I seem to lose USB entirely when I rmmod g_file_storage20:08
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tank-manive heard someone else with the same rebooting issue with a usb keyboard, but he wasnt using the stock kernel20:37
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iamlindorotank-man: Fancy seeing you here-- All stock here, including repositories-- only thing added has been openssh-server and usbcontrol20:43
iamlindorostock otherwise20:43
tank-mananything interesting from "dmesg" before the reboot?20:46
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iamlindoronot that I've managed to intercept, I have noticed that I can extend survival a little longer by not running lsusb (which fairly immediately causes it) but it ultimately hangs and restarts no matter what20:48
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Stskeeps <- N800 & smartq5 :P21:45
RST38hIf they mate, what will you call the offpsring?21:46
RST38hthe chinese one does look cool, better than n80021:46
Stskeepsthe sd slot is a bitch though21:47
Stskeepsi often have to pull the sd out, and clicking it isn't easy21:47
RST38hwell, n810 sd slot also isn't fun21:47
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Stskeepsbeyond that it's excellent for touch21:52
Stskeepsand actually looks better than an iphone, heh21:52
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lcukStskeeps, lower dpi then21:55
lcuk(v nice tho)21:55
Stskeepslcuk: same size screen21:55
lcukahh optical illusion21:56
RST38hthe screen looks bigger than in n8x021:56
Stskeepsit's perspective21:56
lcukit wasnt just that, its size of the bezel21:56
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lcukStskeeps, WHERES THE D-PAD?21:58
Stskeepslcuk: yeah, exactly21:58
lcuksince that is the most common thing ppl scream at new tech21:58
Stskeepsthere's 3 buttons on top but no dpad.21:58
lcukno camera either by the looks21:59
lcukits a digital photo frame :)21:59
RST38hwait until you get a chance to ask this question about n9x021:59
lcukwhich is cool21:59
StskeepsRST38h: i'm inclined to think fremantle doesn't need a dpad21:59
* lcuk can see these devices doing very well for what i have in mind21:59
Stskeepslcuk: with wifi and bluetooth and usb host/otg/gadget.. and speaker and microphone21:59
Stskeeps.. and tv out it seems22:00
Stskeepsand 2000mAh battery22:00
RST38hSts: Fremantle may not but I do22:00
Stskeepsthe buttons on top are 770 like22:00
RST38hSts: how is battery life on smartq22:00
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StskeepsRST38h: ran it over 4 hours yesterday but i would like to move away from my rather electrically insecure plug convertor at the moment22:01
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StskeepsRST38h: ubuntu lxde isn't exactly power saving22:04
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RST38hSts: Still no hildon desktop there?22:05
StskeepsRST38h: what, huh? :P22:05
RST38hjust asking =)22:05
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Stskeepsi got the device about 26 hours ago :P22:05
Stskeepsyes, i have hildon desktop22:05
Stskeepslook at the pic :)22:05
RST38hso why lxde?22:06
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Stskeepslxde was their own setup22:06
Stskeepswhich is what i tested with22:06
RST38hah, I am more interested in how it fares under mer22:06
RST38hwhich is supposed to be very power saving22:06
Stskeepsyeah - i will look forward that too22:06
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Stskeepsas well as seeing if wifi power saving works22:07
johnxlzaurusRST38h, if you want to be a mer developer we might be able to swing you a discount code for the smartq ...22:08
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Stskeepsfunny fact: it says ccc fcc and ce22:10
johnxlzaurusI think in some cases you can pay a company to get all the testing done for you at once22:11
Stskeepswell if it's based on a development board, hm :P22:11
johnxlzaurusit might not cost that much more to get ce and fcc done at the same time ...22:11
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RST38hjohnx: I have nothign against another gadget22:11
RST38hjohnx: but no time either =(22:12
johnxlzauruswell even if you just want to buy one to port emus too, it isnt like they are that expensive22:13
johnxlzaurusalso excuse the punctuation as I need to do a bit of work on this keymap it seems22:13
RST38hThe review says $132 in China22:14
RST38hnot a lot of money indeed22:14
RST38h"eBay Fakes Devalue the Craft of Tomb Robbing" <=== hehehe22:15
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lcukStskeeps, have you been and gloated in the pandora thread yet?22:18
Stskeepslcuk: nah22:19
Stskeepsno need to make enemies22:19
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RST38hah, it is more like beating zombies than making enemies22:19
Stskeepsgood one :)22:19
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johnxheh, I think most of the pandora people left that thread long ago :)22:25
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zakkmanyone know why the advanced battery statusbar icon, the battery % only goes up to like 93%?22:26
lcukreally, mine goes all the way to 1122:26
johnxthey use a different algorithm for determining when the battery is "full" than the Nokia battery applet22:27
johnxdifferent batteries charge different amounts22:27
zakkmyeah but it stops at 93%, i find that odd ;p22:27
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zakkmcould the battery be replaced with a more long lasting one?22:27
locutusi have one22:27
zakkmhow much22:27
zakkmmah ?22:27
locutusbut you have to use a different bulging backplate22:28
lcuki have mine attached to a big battery, but the lead is a tad short22:28
locutusso the n810 becomes less nice to handhold22:28
RST38hyes but bigger capacity batteries are bigger22:28
locutusso i never use it22:28
zakkmnone same size, but more capacity?22:28
locutusbecause it wont easilly fit in my trouser pockets then22:28
lcuklocutus, you got a mugen?22:28
locutuslcuk: dunno22:28
locutuslcuk: i was given this set as a present22:28
lcukzakkm, whats wrong with battery life, barring the 93%22:29
zakkmi just find it odd being fully charged and it saying its at 93% :P22:29
locutuszakkm: it could btw be that your battery just doesnt charge to 100% full anymore22:29
locutuszakkm: which can happen with age22:29
lcuklocutus, there is a hardware hacker who makes addins which use the extra space that battery holds22:29
lcukhes got all sorts of goodies in mind22:29
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locutuszakkm: mugen 3600mAh yes22:29
locutuslcuk: yeah, i have one which adds a full sized SD slot there22:29
locutuslcuk: i see no real use for it, as i just use a MicroSD+MiniSD adapter22:29
zakkmwould that 3600mah mugen fit perfectly?22:30
lcukzakkm, did you not listen - he has a fat extended back cover22:30
lcukphotos here22:30
locutusthat 3600mAh one fits only with a fat cover22:30
zakkmoh wow22:31
zakkm32gb sdhc ;o22:31
lcuki think hes making a kitchensink addon next22:31
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zakkmwhat do 770's go for these days?22:33
lcukoriginal retail * 10 i think22:34
lcukthey are almost collectables :D22:34
lcukebay will tell you - its not expensive i dont think22:35
zakkmi was thinking of selling my n800 and buy a 770 ..22:35
zakkmand end up with some nice cash ;p22:35
lcukbut why would you want a 770?22:35
lcukapart from hard cover22:35
lcukand cool design22:35
lcukand retro chic22:35
locutusn770 looks crappy22:35
zakkmbetween that or a smartq 5 i think22:35
zakkmi dont like the way the n800 looks22:35
zakkmand im using it less and less22:36
johnxtrading down from an n800 to a 770 would kinda suck22:36
lcukwhat are you using instead22:36
* RST38h suggests a microVAX for that retro chic feeling22:36
zakkmi used to have a 770, bought it on ebay for $85, but then it wsod'd and i got screwed22:36
zakkmlike a month later22:36
locutusRST38h: why a -micro- VAX?22:36
johnxthey're all gonna WSOD one day22:36
locutusRST38h: why not go all out and get a VAX780 ? ;-)22:36
lcukanyone on twitter?22:38
lcukmines lookin empty22:38
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qgilhi there22:49
qgilI'm looking for fast feedback about this page:
qgilhow can it serve better the purpose of bringing more developers to Copenhagen at the end of this month?22:50
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GeneralAntillesFree hats!22:50
lbtagenda ?22:51
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zakkmfree hats.. damn i should of got invited :D22:51
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to poke Tim about getting the shirts together22:51
lbt2 hrs hacking code, lots of free coffee22:51
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lbt4 hrs hacking code, lots of free coffee22:51
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GeneralAntillesqgil, got a nice logo for the event you could stick on the top?22:51
qgilGeneralAntilles: like
VDVsxmore promotion, especially at DK University's22:52
GeneralAntillesqgil, combined with hypnosis that might work22:52
GeneralAntillesbut I was thinking the Adobe sort. :P22:52
qgilGeneralAntilles: not hats, but free entrance, lunch and even some beers22:52
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lbtpromise to show off pre-production prototypes....22:52
lbtyeah, some "re" too22:52
qgillogo for the vent, the Mozilla guys are onto something, yes22:53
* lbt assumes "re" is Danish coffee22:53
lbtseriously - do people know what's actually happening?22:53
qgillocal promotion yes, I have failed in my part and the Mozilla office located in the very same campus haven't been that active either. Noted. With urgency.22:54
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lbtI'm kinda expecting to talk, see lots of laptops compiling code, new ideas being sketched out on whiteboards...22:54
lbtdesign reviews22:54
lbtthat kind of thing22:55
Stskeepsyeah - facilities would be good, what can we get of equipment, will we be sitting sweating at tables in the big hall or where would we be or something :)22:55
qgillbt: believe it or not I'm working hard to get some kind of development boards so people can see their apps in real action - but can't promise at this point22:55
Stskeepswhiteboards, HDMI/DVI screens, etc22:55
Stskeepsso people can start preparing demos22:55
lbtheh - that's a hook to attract attention22:55
* zakkm wants a free maemo hat :)22:55
lbtbut actually saying "talk, lots of laptops compiling code, new ideas being sketched out on whiteboards..."22:55
lbtintense/creative design atmosphere22:56
Stskeepsor even simple stuff about if there'll be a coffee machine ;p22:56
qgilStskeeps & lbt , you mean a schedule (if only a skeleton) where you can visualize what will be there22:56
Stskeepsschedule sketch might also help so people can start proposing22:56
lbtyes... and I don't know what a "hackfest" really is22:56
lbtI don't know whether to do a powerpoint show on OBS22:57
lbtor a screencast22:57
lbtor just have an example to walk through on a big projector22:57
qgillbt: yes, you can22:57
qgilok, I'll start working on a skleton right now22:57
lbtheh - pick one   eh?22:57
lcukdo we need a pre-meeting meeting to arrange some of the specifics22:58
qgilalso the Mozilla guys found the "official" hotel and booked 40 double rooms, that would help making things concrete as well  :)22:58
lcukqgil, have you heard whether vlads clearance is ok22:58
qgilalso, we have sponsored about a bunch of developers, but also nobody knowsn22:58
lbtthere will be people who have lots of knowledge... but I assume there will be "walk in" people too?22:58
qgiland nobody knows we still have budget to sponsor some more good developers22:58
lbtwhat are they doing ?22:58
Stskeepsqgil: another idea since much of it is tablet-centered - there's a small bunch of Nokians coming - what areas that they are in might be good for people to know22:58
lbtany Qt people?22:59
Stskeepssuch as, if there's a hildon expert coming or clutter, that'd be great to know22:59
lbtpaff gtk ...22:59
lcukqgil, i would like to have a pow-wow with kot and crash and a couple of others - it might have been mentioned22:59
qgillcuk, do we really need a meeting (may be), or is it about action in the wiki + mailing list + forum, planet...22:59
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* lcuk was joking22:59
lbtad-hoc irc meeting may be an idea23:00
qgilStskeeps: the nokians coming basically belong to development platform and browser23:00
lcukwe already had ours - i am eager to speak with vlad and sampo23:00
qgilsince the rest are tied to their Fremantle desks with a thick iron chain23:00
lcukdo you know if hendrik is coming23:00
VDVsxVERY important: don't forget the (free) snacks & coffee  :P it's a very important part in this kind of events23:01
qgillbt: qt people, that's a good point23:01
lbtAntonio is busy :(23:01
qgilI expect Kate and Antonio to b there at least, will ask the official post-trolls as well23:01
qgilVDVsx: eating and drinking (with moderation) shouldn't b a problem, even for free23:02
Stskeepsheh, the cantina at ITU is interesting - you get charged per kg :>23:02
lbtIf we can get an idea of who is presenting what and in what style23:02
VDVsxqgil, .)23:02
lbtthen we can plan around it...23:02
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qgilok lbt: schedule skeleton coming tonight23:03
lbt+ scale...  presentation to 50 people != 5 people around a screen23:03
lcuklbt, i learnt how to present to a large audience :)  just do it to one person23:03
* lbt volunteers something on OBS (obviously)23:03
lcukquim, it was nokia that arranged the projector for the summit (overhead one) can it be there again?23:04
lbtlcuk ... style + content differ with scale23:04
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VDVsxand... please, please record some of the talks :)23:04
qgilthere are different spaces: auditorium (150 people) + 1 Mozilla room + 1 room + 1 Maemo/Nokia room (40 seats each)23:04
lcukVDVsx, that means we should contact jamie and see if hes available23:04
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qgillcuk projectors are not a problem in the ITU!23:05
lcukare star fleet uniforms supplied or do we need to bring our own?23:05
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lbtyou're ET, not starfleet23:05
Stskeepsqgil: ah - and we'd be mostly in the mozilla/maemo/maemo-nokia rooms?23:05
lcukyes yes23:05
* Stskeeps isn't entirely sure how it'd look yet :)23:06
VDVsxlcuk, he is in the attending list, I think23:06
zakkmhow many people are expected to come?23:06
qgilStskeeps: ah no, tactually the default place is the hall, with plenty of tables and chairs to sit and hack23:06
lcukgood VDVsx ill send him a mail and make sure23:06
Stskeepsqgil: fantastic :)23:06
qgilthose rooms are for BOFs, team discussions and other loud activities  :)23:06
* Stskeeps misses old demo scene parties23:06
* zakkm sees stskeeps running around the main room .. MER HAS ___!!!!!!! 23:06
lcukdo we have a list of current participants23:06
qgilThe Maemo/Nokia room could be to offer specific support to SDK users23:07
Stskeepszakkm: .. yeah, that pretty much qualifies how insane i am :)23:07
lbtspare international power plug adaptors23:07
qgillcuk the list of confirmed participants is in the wiki page23:07
Stskeepslbt: good point23:07
lcukgotcha - was hunting for ages23:07
lbtvarious private wifi routers?23:07
qgil - forgot that I created a separate page23:07
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zakkmnobody from canada :P23:08
Stskeepslbt: i'll take my fonera along, :P23:08
lbtspare N800 batteries23:08
* Stskeeps ponders idly how heavy his backpack will be.23:08
qgilinternational power plug adapters? I never get them when flying to UK/US  :)23:08
lcukStskeeps, its just down the road for you23:09
* johnx needs to get a line on a laptop to borrow O_o;23:09
Stskeepsjohnx: n800 and bluetooth keyboard, that's all you need23:09
lbtextra long vga cables23:09
zakkmis there seriously going to be free maemo hats?23:09
qgilperhaps hats if you convince the council  ;)23:10
johnxI think better with multiple windows up at once. I guess I can just array the zaurus, wii+tv and n800 out in front of me...23:10
lcukoh no Stskeeps that bluetooth keyboard caused liqbase death!23:10
lbtzakkm: we're all shaving our heads and having Mer tatoos23:10
zakkmi want a hat to put up in my room :D23:10
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qgilalright, I'll go to edit that wiki page right now23:10
qgilthanks for the braindrop!23:10
lbtseperate content23:11
lcukyw :)23:11
lbtfrom practicals23:11
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lcukive just mailed jamie23:12
GeneralAntilleszakkm, Tim should be working on shirts.23:13
zakkmif shipping isnt much, and i paid shipping, would someone mail me one? :D23:14
lcukqgil, on the participants thing im not starred for sponsorship (*) am i getting there under my own steam or sharing a suitcase with some others?23:14
lbtlcuk, I persuaded them to send me first class.... you're swimming.23:15
Stskeepsthe 24 hour boat is a blast23:15
* lcuk mutters something about bloody vikings ;)23:15
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lcukStskeeps, how far is it for ou travelling23:18
Stskeepslcuk: 3h30m or so23:18
qgillcuk you need to apply for sponsorship as said in the web23:18
qgil updated23:18
qgil45 participants confirmed now23:18
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GeneralAntilleszakkm, these are likely to be specific to this meetup.23:21
GeneralAntilleszakkm, plan is to have a real swag store at some point.23:22
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radiccan someone agree that the browser is slightly unstable?23:22
lcukhmm i am sure i already filled that in once, nm ive applied again23:22
lcukradic, yeah internet explorer is a pain in the ass23:22
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lcukit crashes all the time23:22
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radiclcuk: i mean that on my n80023:23
lcuki dunno it always seemed fine with me - but i dont use it so often23:23
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qgil updated23:47
qgil created23:47
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zakkm75eur per night is alott :P23:47
qgilless if you share23:47
zakkmthat sleep in heaven looks better23:48
zakkm17.47 eur, free wifi, locker and such23:48
GeneralAntillesPeople just love to have forums for their little pet projects. . . .23:48
Stskeepszakkm: in terms of comfort, cabinn is nicer :P23:48
zakkmyour barely be there though23:48
zakkmexcept sleep23:48
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GeneralAntillesIf people would move DOCUMENTATION to the wiki nobody would have to dig around in subforums to find stuff.23:49
Stskeepshehe, shared room planning23:50
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* Stskeeps marks himself availiable for a roommate :P23:50
zakkmi call shared room with STSKEEPS! :D23:50
lbtquim... do you snore23:50
qgillbt: only at night23:50
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Stskeepsah, perfect hotel spot23:51
CutMeOwnThroatoh, the MicroB browser is proprietary23:51
* suihkulokki wonders if it is a great idea to have the party *before* hacking event :P23:51
zakkmi can see it now, everyone in their rooms on their nokia :)23:51
Stskeepsright next to metro23:51
Stskeepssuihkulokki: i'm pondering to share with a jetlagged USian or something :P23:51
GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, the UI is closed, MicroB is actually the engine, which is Gecko-based and open.23:51
GeneralAntillesCutMeOwnThroat, the UI will be open in Fremantle.23:52
johnxI think rm_you and I will probably end up sharing a room23:52
* johnx changes the wiki23:52
zakkmhave you guys ever seen eachother in person before?23:52
johnxzakkm, we went to the same highschool :)23:53
Stskeepszakkm: nop23:53
Stskeeps(at least i didn't)23:53
CutMeOwnThroatgoogle says it's a town :)23:53
johnxzakkm, rm_you and I, I mean :)23:53
lcukshame zach cant make it23:53
GeneralAntillesMaemo 523:53
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zakkmi want a tshirt :(23:53
GeneralAntilleszakkm, go triage some bugs. That's how I got mine. ;)23:54
zakkmyou got a maemo tshirt?23:54
GeneralAntillesYeah, one of the real maemo (lowercase m) ones, too. ;)23:55
qgilStskeeps: do you mind moving the content of to an own page, I want to convert those Focus areas in a simple bullet list with links, thanks!23:56
Stskeepsqgil: yep - sec23:56
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CutMeOwnThroatwell, tempting to see how those things do on a x86 desktop... guess I'll run matchbox-window-manager at sometime :)23:57
CutMeOwnThroatalthough single-window is probably not so great there23:58
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crashanddieHi qgil o/23:59
Stskeepsqgil: edited, feel free to edit as needed23:59
crashanddiehow's it going in crazy Finland?23:59
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