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| johnx | 'night RST38h | 00:05 |
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| Macer | know this may sound strange but | 00:12 |
| Macer | which debian install cd would i use for a core2duo? | 00:12 |
| Macer | ia64? | 00:12 |
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| johnx | not ia64. you either want x86 or amd64 (not sure what it's called) | 00:13 |
| Macer | hm. so no itanium arch used on core2duo? | 00:14 |
| Macer | do they even make itaniums anymore? | 00:14 |
| johnx | yup | 00:14 |
| johnx | it's for servers | 00:14 |
| Macer | oh | 00:14 |
| johnx | not common servers though | 00:14 |
| Macer | virtualization etc? | 00:14 |
| KurtKraut | how can I turn on or blink the N800 led? Does this envolve writing to a file in /proc like in laptops? | 00:14 |
| johnx | not even... | 00:14 |
| matt | Unfortuently I do not believe that the Nokia n810 is for me. I bought it expecting it to have a faster processor than it does. So reckon I am going to sell it on Ebay. Any tips on how to "wipe" the internals and then make it like new again? | 00:14 |
| Macer | more like cracking hte genome servers? | 00:14 |
| johnx | yeah, stuff like that | 00:14 |
| Macer | haha | 00:15 |
| Macer | they are that good? | 00:15 |
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| johnx | Macer, not really, but some people have high budgets and low expectations. they're pretty good for a certain subset of problems | 00:15 |
| johnx | matt, clean up files from the internal memory, then reflash | 00:16 |
| Macer | haha | 00:16 |
| johnx | KurtKraut, I think there's a d-bus call you can use. let me check | 00:16 |
| Macer | high budgets and low expectations :) that's awesome | 00:16 |
| matt | johnx: Ok, so lets see, hook it up via usb to do the clean up? | 00:16 |
| Macer | i honestly thought they were discontinued | 00:16 |
| Macer | and were shoved into newer tech like core2duo | 00:17 |
| johnx | matt, yup. delete anything that's yours, but leave the map files alone :) | 00:17 |
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| Macer | kind of like ppro and p3s | 00:17 |
| matt | johnx: So things such as passwords and stuff....stored in the things..........:( | 00:17 |
| KurtKraut | johnx, I want to make a plugin for Pidgin to make this led to blink when there are unread messages | 00:17 |
| Macer | debian.org goes slow as shit | 00:17 |
| johnx | Macer, nope. it's a totally different architecture. AMD forced Intel's hand by making 64-bit processors that were backwards compatible with x86 binaries | 00:17 |
| KurtKraut | matt: just reinstall the firmware. But what kind of usage you have that N810 is not fast enough? | 00:18 |
| Macer | oh so itaniums were pure 64bit? | 00:18 |
| matt | KurtKraut: Mainly internet browsing..I just thought it'd be faster than it is. | 00:18 |
| johnx | matt, that gets cleared when you reflash | 00:18 |
| matt | KurtKraut: I find myself waiting to get to my desktop instead.... | 00:19 |
| Macer | well. that's an awesome concept :) | 00:19 |
| matt | really I just need a laptop.... | 00:19 |
| Macer | they should leave i386 shit to C7s and atoms | 00:19 |
| johnx | matt, before you sell it, have you tried the "Tear" web browser | 00:19 |
| johnx | Macer, then why aren't you using an itanium? :) | 00:19 |
| matt | johnx: No I haven't, is it better? | 00:19 |
| Macer | johnx: don't have one :( | 00:19 |
| Macer | maybe i'll buy one | 00:19 |
| Macer | i would rather buy a sparc first tho | 00:19 |
| Macer | a dec alpha or something | 00:20 |
| Macer | that would be awesome | 00:20 |
| johnx | matt, lots better. might be worth a try before you reflash and clear out your tablet. nothing to lose after all :) | 00:20 |
| KurtKraut | matt: I don't think you will get faster than this on a portable device. | 00:20 |
| johnx | KurtKraut, seen this: http://maemo.jabber.dk/ ? | 00:20 |
| Macer | matt: i tried a netbook (the acer one) it's still slow as shit with xp or linux on it | 00:20 |
| Macer | and that ist he laptop version of ultra-portable | 00:20 |
| Macer | it's 10x larger than an n800 and runs slower imo | 00:21 |
| matt | johnx: KurtKraut I may take a look at it. But another major reason I am considering is this: I tried and tried and tried to format videos for the n810, but they weren't ever smooth unless I really made the videos crap quality. | 00:21 |
| Macer | it was nice for an extremely small laptop though. i will give it that much. but it won't fit in a pocket | 00:21 |
| johnx | matt, even in mplayer? | 00:21 |
| Macer | matt: easiest way i found was to use nero recode and use the ipod profile | 00:21 |
| matt | johnx: Sadly. If I jumped the resolution down........well then it'd finally work. | 00:21 |
| Macer | they run great doing that :) | 00:21 |
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| Macer | although you can probably make a better profile for it but i've never tried | 00:22 |
| lbt | lcuk hey... seriously cool new 3D technology game available on the iPhone *and* should work on the N8x0 and probably 770 too very realistic : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2AF0GMjUsQ | 00:22 |
| Macer | 90MB and good enough quality to actually sit there and watch them without skipping | 00:22 |
| matt | Macer: I tried quite a bit of stuff............ | 00:22 |
| KurtKraut | johnx: no, and I cannot generate too much traffic on th connection I am using. Could you tell me what it is? | 00:22 |
| johnx | matt, at about 400x240 or so video should still look pretty good | 00:22 |
| Macer | matt: use nero recode ;) | 00:22 |
| Macer | trust me.. easiest way | 00:22 |
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| johnx | KurtKraut, it's a LED blinking pluging for Pidgin. Source included. even if it doesn't work, it might give you a clue as to where to write to | 00:23 |
| Macer | mp4/aac ftw | 00:23 |
| Macer | bbl | 00:23 |
| tds5016 | hello all. can someone tell me how I'd get the mac address of the device in python? | 00:23 |
| tds5016 | the maemo device* | 00:23 |
| tds5016 | it's an n810 | 00:23 |
| johnx | do you mind just calling ash from inside python? | 00:24 |
| lcuk | lbt, thats hyper realistic, but the technology on the 810 cannot cope - where would the balls go | 00:25 |
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| tds5016 | johnx: was that to me? | 00:25 |
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| johnx | tds5016, yes. though I think someone had a way to do it in pure python | 00:25 |
| lbt | I thought you'd be impressed | 00:25 |
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| tds5016 | johnx: oh okay. I'd prefer to have it in pure python. | 00:26 |
| lcuk | maybe we could get craves one to make an attachment | 00:26 |
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| tds5016 | but if worse comes to worse, I'll settle for making a call to ash. | 00:26 |
| tds5016 | can you send me a tutorial on how I'd do that? | 00:27 |
| johnx | well, in sh: /sbin/ifconfig | grep HW | 00:28 |
| KurtKraut | johnx: that sounds great, thanks. | 00:28 |
| johnx | hm, maybe: /sbin/ifconfig | grep wlan0 | 00:28 |
| johnx | that way if usb0 is up too you don't get both ;) | 00:29 |
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| johnx | cutting out the part you want is left as an exercise in python. :D should be simple though | 00:29 |
| paul0 | yay! got one N800! | 00:29 |
| johnx | congrats paul0 | 00:29 |
| paul0 | now the battery is full, and i'll upgrade the firmware | 00:29 |
| matt | So...I plugged the nokia up to computer....I cannot remember where the *.* config files are. | 00:30 |
| paul0 | johnx, thanks :) | 00:30 |
| johnx | matt, the config files will be erased when you reflash. for now just delete anything on the "Internal Memory" that's yours | 00:30 |
| matt | johnx: oh, then I should be good. | 00:30 |
| matt | johnx: now...how to reflash...... | 00:31 |
| johnx | ~flashing | 00:31 |
| infobot | hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 00:31 |
| paul0 | how do i check my firmware version? | 00:33 |
| johnx | menu -> settings -> control panel -> about | 00:33 |
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| paul0 | well, my N800 is probably running the OS2007, afaik all the N800 comes with it, right? | 00:33 |
| paul0 | i'll check anyway | 00:34 |
| johnx | yup | 00:34 |
| johnx | even if it's OS2008 it's probably an old version | 00:34 |
| paul0 | it is the OS2007 | 00:35 |
| johnx | well, then definitely get that upgraded to OS2008 :) | 00:35 |
| paul0 | yup, i'm downloading the image | 00:36 |
| johnx | good deal :) | 00:36 |
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| paul0 | finally this N800 came to Brazil with a good price | 00:37 |
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| johnx | ah good! I heard they were really expensive there for a long time | 00:38 |
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| paul0 | it usually costs R$1000, but one online store is selling it for R$399 now | 00:38 |
| johnx | wow. that's a big price drop | 00:39 |
| paul0 | yup | 00:39 |
| johnx | glad to hear it's not a scam, too ;) | 00:39 |
| johnx | that's a lot closer to the US price :) | 00:39 |
| paul0 | yes | 00:40 |
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| johnx | R$1000 was more than the US launch price, I think | 00:40 |
| paul0 | now linux MIDs became much more popular | 00:40 |
| paul0 | here | 00:40 |
| paul0 | it doesn't come with FM Radio application already? | 00:42 |
| johnx | nope. but it's available to download | 00:42 |
| johnx | do you have wifi? | 00:42 |
| paul0 | yes, but i'll download it later | 00:42 |
| paul0 | first firmware upgrade, later i'll start downloading some applications :) | 00:43 |
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| thopiekar | etrunko: PING | 00:47 |
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| etrunko | thopiekar: pong | 00:49 |
| thopiekar | how is the progress with the e17 deb-repos? | 00:49 |
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| thopiekar | are there now available repos out there? , etrunko | 00:50 |
| etrunko | thopiekar: not ready yet | 00:51 |
| etrunko | http://packages.enlightenment.org | 00:51 |
| thopiekar | I tried to make packages from svn | 00:51 |
| thopiekar | but I have lots of trouble | 00:51 |
| matt | johnx: Macer I keep haveing troubles flashing it, I keep getting "command not found" | 00:51 |
| matt | for the flasher...it's odd. | 00:51 |
| etrunko | thopiekar: the guys are fixing the last bits in packages | 00:51 |
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| etrunko | thopiekar: you tried for maemo? | 00:52 |
| thopiekar | please add to the dependencies cvn of e17.. | 00:52 |
| paul0 | "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" | 00:52 |
| etrunko | or ubuntu/debian ? | 00:52 |
| paul0 | i've did something wrong? | 00:52 |
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| thopiekar | etrunko: no I need the packages for a virtual maschine.. | 00:52 |
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| thopiekar | etrunko: k.. so the repos will be online in the next... ? | 00:53 |
| etrunko | thopiekar: later this week i think | 00:53 |
| thopiekar | I'm just thinking about making a vm for maemo.. maybe somethink like maemoSDKvm+.. INDT's vmdk's are not defragmented to they are very big.. | 00:54 |
| etrunko | hmm | 00:55 |
| kenne | thopiekar, maybe talk to setanta here on freenode, he did the vmdk | 00:55 |
| etrunko | thopiekar: you can try #pkg-e for further information on the repository | 00:55 |
| thopiekar | I managed to defragment a good solution with gnome, android sdk, maemo sdk , etc to 11,6GB and 7zip'd it to 2.8GB | 00:56 |
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| thopiekar | etrunko: k | 00:56 |
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| thopiekar | 2.8GB are better to share than 20GB :P | 00:56 |
| etrunko | yeah | 00:56 |
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| thopiekar | so I want to make a new vm with e17.. e17 is very fast and lightwight.. so the best of a vm :) | 00:57 |
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| thopiekar | k.. I have to get some sleep.. see you soon :] | 01:01 |
| KurtKraut | what is the OS2008 default browser? | 01:01 |
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| matt | I seemingly cannot flash my n810, either in opensuse 11.1 or ubuntu 8.10. | 01:02 |
| matt | everytime I go to run the flasher, either as root or user, it get "permission denied". | 01:03 |
| tds5016 | matt: are you sudoing or sudo su - | 01:03 |
| tds5016 | ? | 01:03 |
| tds5016 | and yes, there is a difference. | 01:03 |
| matt | tds5016: tried both. | 01:03 |
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| tds5016 | rut r'oh then. haha. | 01:03 |
| matt | tds5016: I just sudoed su, ./flasher, nothing else, and get this. | 01:04 |
| matt | bash: ./flasher-3.0: Permission denied | 01:04 |
| tds5016 | show me what happens if you log in with sudo su - | 01:04 |
| tds5016 | first. | 01:04 |
| matt | tds5016: what do you mean? | 01:05 |
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| tds5016 | run the command sudo su - first | 01:05 |
| tds5016 | that way you are actually become root. | 01:05 |
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| matt | tds5016: tried it. | 01:05 |
| tds5016 | okay, lemme see the outputs. | 01:05 |
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| matt | tds5016: tds5016 permission denied. | 01:07 |
| matt | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php | 01:08 |
| matt | tds5016: flasher-3.0, tried all three of them. | 01:09 |
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| matt | tds5016: It's strange, because I have flashed it before. | 01:10 |
| tds5016 | hmm.... that's strange. I've not much experience, so I may not be able to help. | 01:10 |
| tds5016 | I'm sorry. | 01:10 |
| johnx | matt, sudo chmod +x flasher-3.0 | 01:10 |
| matt | johnx: tried it | 01:11 |
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| b-man | hello, johnx :) | 01:11 |
| johnx | hey b-man | 01:11 |
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| johnx | matt, you're sure you have the right version of the flasher? | 01:11 |
| matt | johnx: but...I'm trying the static version on my suse again, i think it will work. | 01:11 |
| tds5016 | matt I hate suggesting this, but you could always try from windows... | 01:11 |
| tds5016 | :-/. | 01:11 |
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| matt | tds5016: yeah right........ | 01:12 |
| matt | johnx: Didn't try the static version on suse, it seems to be working. | 01:12 |
| KurtKraut | what is the OS2008 default browser? Is it Fennec? | 01:12 |
| johnx | I'm guessing you had the amd64 version on a 32bit distro or vice versa | 01:12 |
| matt | johnx: Indeed, is working........ | 01:12 |
| matt | johnx: dunno. | 01:12 |
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| sp3000 | KurtKraut: microb | 01:14 |
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| KurtKraut | sp3000: thanks. I miss a lot of features, for instance, block the rendering/download of images | 01:21 |
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| Macer | word | 01:22 |
| * Macer is waiting for this damn debian install to encipher the hard drive | 01:22 | |
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| johnx | KurtKraut, I think ther's an option to not load images. | 01:24 |
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| KurtKraut | johnx: no, there isn't | 01:25 |
| johnx | on the bottom right of the browser screen, click the magnifying glass -> show images -> never | 01:26 |
| KurtKraut | you can block javascript, but not images | 01:26 |
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| KurtKraut | oh hell, i was looking for that on the main confifu | 01:27 |
| johnx | :) | 01:27 |
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| KurtKraut | oh hell, i was looking for that on the main configuration window. thanks again johnx | 01:27 |
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| johnx | no problem. it takes a while to get used to how they laid out the menus | 01:27 |
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| Macer | it's amazing how little scientists do :) | 01:29 |
| Macer | they don't usually produce real world results | 01:29 |
| lbt | true. | 01:30 |
| lbt | pass me another wheel | 01:30 |
| Macer | i don't think scientists created the wheel | 01:31 |
| Macer | it was engineers | 01:31 |
| lbt | nah, they built it | 01:31 |
| Macer | i believe the last good thing a scientist made was the atom bomb | 01:31 |
| lbt | a scientist invented it | 01:31 |
| lbt | good? | 01:31 |
| Macer | well... not the bomb in general... but nuclear fission | 01:31 |
| lbt | are you calling the H-bomb bad then? | 01:31 |
| Macer | it had real world results | 01:31 |
| lbt | and fusion is not as good as fission? | 01:31 |
| Macer | no.. it is neither nor | 01:31 |
| Macer | fusion is better :) | 01:32 |
| lbt | but that came after the atom bomb | 01:32 |
| Macer | do they have fusion reactors? | 01:32 |
| lbt | so the last good thing must have been fusion | 01:32 |
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| Macer | i thought they were all fission? | 01:32 |
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| Macer | i mean realistically.. the medical scientists are the only ones who have contributed anything tangible to the rest of the world in the last 50 years (if not more) | 01:33 |
| lbt | so, say, semiconductors aren't tangible? | 01:33 |
| lbt | nah you're right | 01:34 |
| Macer | what are semiconductors doing that have improved the world greatly? | 01:34 |
| lbt | medical fission | 01:34 |
| Macer | made a nice train at disney world? | 01:34 |
| lbt | well, I can think of some medical devices... | 01:34 |
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| lbt | that the medical scientists use | 01:34 |
| Macer | and well.. :) | 01:36 |
| Macer | semiconductors have been around since the 1800s | 01:36 |
| lbt | they've been around since they fused in the sun | 01:36 |
| Macer | sure in a philosophical "we are all stardust" kind of way | 01:36 |
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| lbt | and given silicon is a semiconductor then I suppose an egg-timer was the first semiconductor device | 01:37 |
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| Macer | but i mean... paleontologists.. they study ancient creatures.. how is that helping the world? | 01:37 |
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| Macer | how is it advancing humanity studying how a mammoth lived? | 01:37 |
| lbt | you're right again... there's no point in looking to the past to see how things might change in the future | 01:38 |
| lbt | say how animals coped in ice-ages | 01:38 |
| Macer | sure certain things | 01:38 |
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| Macer | but .... the underlying problem was the ice age | 01:38 |
| lbt | when we had changes to the world's temperature | 01:38 |
| Macer | obviously we know what the conditions were | 01:38 |
| lbt | nothing like toda | 01:39 |
| lbt | y | 01:39 |
| lbt | when we will havechanges to the world's temperature | 01:39 |
| Macer | now it is time to find a way to cope with those conditions by making tangible technology | 01:39 |
| Macer | you know what it was and what it does and there is nothing that is being done to do anything about it :) | 01:39 |
| lbt | yes... to do what exactly? | 01:39 |
| lbt | I like solar shades | 01:40 |
| lbt | sounds cool in a big way | 01:40 |
| lbt | on so many levels | 01:40 |
| Macer | build an underground society ? | 01:41 |
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| Macer | something.. not just keep studying what the ice age was | 01:42 |
| Macer | Hitler may have been a rotten bastard.. but i think the world needs fascism | 01:42 |
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| lbt | but look where the dinosaurs went.... | 01:42 |
| lbt | underground | 01:42 |
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| Macer | they didn't go underground | 01:42 |
| Macer | they all died and were covered up by lava | 01:42 |
| * lbt calls Godwin | 01:42 | |
| Macer | :) | 01:42 |
| Macer | fascism would point science into tangible things.. our education systems fail due to lack of control | 01:43 |
| Macer | we have that "pick something you like" thing going on | 01:43 |
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| Macer | which in the end results in 1% tangible discovery | 01:43 |
| Macer | and 99% bullshit | 01:43 |
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| Macer | 30 years of education wasted just because johnny had a pet horse that died so he decided to become a veterinarian instead of a physisist | 01:46 |
| sp3000 | OH NO METRICS RUN FOR YOUR LIFE | 01:46 |
| Macer | and doesn't want to have anybody else lose their pet fish | 01:46 |
| Macer | haha | 01:46 |
| Macer | ok... i have to eat....using microwaves to heat water.. now that was a breakthrough | 01:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | sp3000: so... | 01:53 |
| timeless_mbp | i understand why my mbp was unhappy | 01:53 |
| timeless_mbp | and i decided to try to use my new hdd | 01:53 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly i can't follow directions | 01:53 |
| timeless_mbp | so i'll have to try again tomorrow | 01:53 |
| sp3000 | heh | 01:54 |
| timeless_mbp | so, instead, what am i doing? | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | a friend's laptop died | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a lenovo | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | and it has a "push to destroy all your data" button | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | the system is cute | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | 30gb for the "destroyable parition" | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | about 200gb for "your data if you're smart enough to manage to hide anything here" | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | 16gb for the "destroyer source partition" | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly | 01:55 |
| timeless_mbp | it runs vista | 01:56 |
| timeless_mbp | so the OS, ProgramFiles, and WinSxS all live on the destroyable partition | 01:56 |
| timeless_mbp | so does %HOME% | 01:56 |
| timeless_mbp | which meant that among other problems, the C: drive was running out of space (yippee) | 01:56 |
| timeless_mbp | but the "reset your computer" button fixed that problem :) | 01:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | well... fixed is overstating it | 01:58 |
| timeless_mbp | since it didn't fix the partitioning to not be insane | 01:58 |
| timeless_mbp | otoh, i'd been waiting for an excuse to reformat the drive w/ a moderately sane partitioning scheme, and it presented itself :) | 01:59 |
| efeefe | hi all, just wondering if anyone has a solution for the problem with diablo initfs in n800 | 02:00 |
| efeefe | (the shipped initfs is too big) | 02:00 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 02:01 |
| timeless_mbp | how can it be too big? | 02:01 |
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| efeefe | timeless_mbp: I had the following errorwhile flashing the initfs: "usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable" | 02:02 |
| LiraNuna | efeefe, I recently got an N810WE and I have no problem, | 02:02 |
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| LiraNuna | efeefe, are you root? is the USB mounted? | 02:03 |
| efeefe | timeless_mbp: some people say it is too big (2273 kB) | 02:03 |
| efeefe | LiraNuna: not mounted, I'm sudoer | 02:03 |
| LiraNuna | efeefe, what device? what firmware are you trying to flash? | 02:04 |
| efeefe | LiraNuna: n800, trying to flash the latest diablo from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php | 02:04 |
| LiraNuna | I downloaded it and tested N810EW with no problem; I suppose it's an N800 problem only (if exists) | 02:05 |
| sp3000 | google doesn't seem to know much of these some people | 02:05 |
| LiraNuna | s/it// | 02:05 |
| infobot | LiraNuna meant: I downloaded and tested N810EW with no problem; I suppose it's an N800 problem only (if exists) | 02:05 |
| LiraNuna | nice bot | 02:05 |
| sp3000 | if by nice you mean annoying :) | 02:06 |
| LiraNuna | some people don't understand it when I use regexps | 02:06 |
| sp3000 | efeefe: did you try again? | 02:07 |
| efeefe | LiraNuna: thanks anyway, I'll try downloading a previous firmware | 02:07 |
| efeefe | sp3000: 3 or 4 times | 02:07 |
| crashanddie | lol... What Do I Do If JBOSS Explodes My Computer: http://www.jboss.org/community/docs/DOC-12681 | 02:07 |
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| LiraNuna | efeefe, sorry I couldn't help | 02:10 |
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| LiraNuna | is the maemo repository down for anyone? I can't download software | 02:49 |
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| LiraNuna | seems to be fixed now | 02:58 |
| xnt | ¡ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ ollǝɥ | 02:58 |
| b-man | lol | 02:59 |
| xnt | :P | 02:59 |
| b-man | ⎼┴␊⎼: %⎽ | 02:59 |
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| crashanddie | xnt, that's pretty disturbing | 03:01 |
| xnt | sorry | 03:01 |
| xnt | but watch | 03:01 |
| xnt | ¿4oɯǝɐɯ ɹoɟ ǝɯǝɥʇ 5oɯǝɐɯ uɐ ǝʞɐɯ ǝqʎɐɯ sʎnƃ | 03:01 |
| crashanddie | not in a bad way | 03:01 |
| xnt | guys maybe make an maemo5 theme for maemo4? | 03:01 |
| xnt | turn your monitor up side down | 03:01 |
| xnt | :) | 03:02 |
| crashanddie | I'm good thanks | 03:02 |
| xnt | lol | 03:02 |
| xnt | ok | 03:02 |
| b-man | ⎼ | 03:02 |
| LiraNuna | UTF8 ftw | 03:03 |
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| LiraNuna | anyone knows a dash build for maemo? | 03:03 |
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| LiraNuna | does the maemo sdk contains anything special? or can I compile my own cross compiler (arm-linux-gnu) myself with no problem? | 03:21 |
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| LiraNuna | "E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture." *sigh* | 03:25 |
| Macer | ugh | 03:26 |
| Macer | this debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER | 03:26 |
| Macer | this debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER | 03:27 |
| LiraNuna | this debian lenny encrypted hard drive erasing takes FOREVER | 03:27 |
| Macer | oops | 03:28 |
| Macer | sorry about that | 03:28 |
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| LiraNuna | ;P | 03:33 |
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| mib_bsvo3n | Is this for development talk? | 06:09 |
| Valois | can somebody help me with easyroot? | 06:09 |
| Valois | i am using maemo on n800 | 06:10 |
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| Macer | gr | 06:50 |
| Macer | wtf | 06:50 |
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| zakkm | /join #mer | 07:15 |
| fireun | woops | 07:15 |
| zakkm | opps | 07:15 |
| zakkm | sorry :( | 07:15 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hehe | 07:21 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | /msg nickserv password ultrasecret | 07:22 |
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| zakkm | when i type i tend to press space alot, so i accndeitly did it before /join | 07:28 |
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| zakkm | where are maemo menu items located? | 07:43 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hah, wish I knew where stuff is | 07:45 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | gotta get rid of busybox and install the real stuff | 07:45 |
| zakkm | the real stuff? | 07:45 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | can't even use find -type f -exec | 07:45 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | bash2, coreutils | 07:45 |
| zakkm | those are in extras repository last i checked | 07:46 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | yeah, so? | 07:46 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | I just mean... gotta get rid of busybox | 07:46 |
| zakkm | what would you gain from that? | 07:47 |
| Stskeeps | sanity | 07:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | (not saying it's specially challanging) | 07:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | indeed! | 07:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | and I think I said that already | 07:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | <CutMeOwnThroat> can't even use find -type f -exec | 07:49 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | there's no locate either | 07:49 |
| zakkm | theres a nice "switch to lxde" in my menu that i wnat to install like gnome, and switch that switch to lxde to switch tognome | 07:50 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | but having a stripped-down find and not knowing where stuff is ... torture | 07:50 |
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| zakkm | you guys see the new virtualbox supports opengl 3d in linux guests? | 07:52 |
| RST38h | "This NASA imagerecently taken by Mars Rover Spiritshows the 5.9-inch skull of a Martian, with binocular eyes 2 inches apart, 1400 cc cranial capacity, and "most likely a carnivore." | 07:53 |
| RST38h | Hehe | 07:53 |
| Stskeeps | url?;p | 07:53 |
| RST38h | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/5255394/Alien-skull-spotted-on-Mars.html | 07:55 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | zakkm, which would e.g. answer your question (in time, but it would) with something like find / -type f -exec grep -il 'switch to lxde" + | 07:56 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | (supposing it's a newish gnu find) | 07:56 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | RST38h, http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/michael_shermer_on_believing_strange_things.html | 07:57 |
| * RST38h does not need to know why in this case :) | 07:58 | |
| CutMeOwnThroat | I love the part where he plays the satanic message without lyrics first and you understand "warble warble satan warble warble" | 07:58 |
| RST38h | Yessss | 07:59 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | RST38h, it's a cool talk... watch it if you got time :) | 07:59 |
| zakkm | stskeeps: hows the smartq? | 07:59 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: so far so good - need tool to create firmware img though | 08:00 |
| zakkm | fast? | 08:00 |
| zakkm | is it faster than the nokia? | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | system is open, already rootable | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | 533mhz vs 400mhz | 08:00 |
| zakkm | i saw 667 | 08:00 |
| zakkm | on some info about it | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, not sure where it came from | 08:01 |
| zakkm | but is it a better omap chip and stuff? | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | its samsung | 08:01 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | RST38h, the talk also actually mentions the face that viking 1 saw 1976 | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | armv6 vfp and it claims armv7 | 08:01 |
| zakkm | yeah does it perform better though? | 08:01 |
| zakkm | im thinking of selling my nokia n800 and buying the smartq, could still follow mer the same that way hah :P | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | heck knows. when i get mer on i'll tell you | 08:02 |
| zakkm | and the smartq form factor iss better in my opinion | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | dpad not there is friggen annoying | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | crap speaker | 08:02 |
| zakkm | i dont use dpad unless playin vgba, yeah speakers important i guess | 08:03 |
| zakkm | the form factor is so cool in that though | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | its also much lighter than my tablet | 08:04 |
| RST38h | CutMe: Oh, the 1976 face is an old story :) | 08:04 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | obviously, being from 1976 | 08:04 |
| RST38h | it actually looks like a face, under some angles, so there are legions of loonies going for it | 08:04 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | actually not... looks like a face at low-res, as the guy demonstrates in the talk | 08:05 |
| zakkm | stskeeps: does that thing have opengl drivers? | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | not in the fs | 08:05 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | (taking a high-res picture and pixelizing it down to low-res) | 08:05 |
| zakkm | fs? | 08:05 |
| Stskeeps | rootfs | 08:05 |
| zakkm | ah | 08:06 |
| zakkm | heh i want one | 08:06 |
| RST38h | Well the loonies prefer the low res picture :) | 08:08 |
| RST38h | Sts" You should actually thank those nameless chinese guys that they have given you real side buttons | 08:09 |
| RST38h | Sts: The one I worked on had touch sensors on the side and had to be handled like a freaking grenade ) | 08:10 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 08:14 |
| Stskeeps | ebook reading can be compared to 770 | 08:15 |
| RST38h | Is the top surface made of glass though? | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | not sure | 08:15 |
| RST38h | I mean can you press on it without being afraid of breaking it like the NIT? | 08:15 |
| Stskeeps | feels like it | 08:16 |
| RST38h | then on-screel dpad should more or less do the job... | 08:16 |
| RST38h | on-screen | 08:17 |
| Valois | i need help with airhack | 08:17 |
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| Stskeeps | but the os is neat but not stylus friendly | 08:18 |
| zakkm | just curious, do you think nokia will come out with one past 43-7? | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | you dont get away with a desktop env on this one | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: only to enable community stuff if so | 08:19 |
| zakkm | i like maemo but as soon as i got my n800, 43-7 sort of came out, and its been ages since then so im wondering if they are just going to go straight from 43-7 to maemo 5 | 08:19 |
| zakkm | is anyone going to use that qt animation framework , or was that just a proof of concept? | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | well yes, but not for n8x0 | 08:20 |
| zakkm | so you think 43-7 will be the last update? | 08:20 |
| zakkm | is* | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | thats pretty much how it looks | 08:21 |
| zakkm | that sucks | 08:22 |
| zakkm | i like the fremantle theme, it looks so cool :D | 08:23 |
| Stskeeps | reason why its good to have a os in community hands | 08:23 |
| zakkm | mer is much different than maemo though | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah - intentionally | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | imagine | 08:24 |
| zakkm | i like that qt animation framework video ;p | 08:25 |
| zakkm | that would be sick to make a ui out of :D | 08:25 |
| zakkm | wouldnt it? | 08:25 |
| Stskeeps | marketings face if their million dollar ui is on some chinese mid before their own release.. | 08:25 |
| zakkm | that could pose a problem | 08:26 |
| zakkm | and fremantle is a different ui than mer | 08:26 |
| luke-jr | for who? ;p | 08:26 |
| zakkm | mer mainly | 08:26 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, people who enjoy Nokia's participation in open source software ;) | 08:26 |
| zakkm | last i checked doesnt nokia support mer? | 08:26 |
| zakkm | if mer ends up on some chinese mid before the n900, and marketing gets mad. that could affect mer couldnt it | 08:27 |
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| zakkm | lack of support and such by nokia | 08:27 |
| johnx | zakkm, well they support Mer to some extent | 08:27 |
| zakkm | yeah but im saying, it will do more bad than good | 08:27 |
| zakkm | Stskeeps: marketings face if their million dollar ui is on some chinese mid before their own release.. | 08:27 |
| johnx | and if Mer ends up on some chinese MID before the N900 is out I don't think it will be nearly as big a deal as if Maemo 5 ends up on some Chinese MID :) | 08:28 |
| zakkm | that would cause more bad than good | 08:28 |
| RST38h | mer is mostly diablo derived, so what is the problem if it ends up on a chinese mid? | 08:28 |
| zakkm | it becomes a competition? | 08:28 |
| johnx | RST38h, When's the last time you looked at our software versions? ;) | 08:28 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, exactly. if we took the new hd though. | 08:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: about a week ago | 08:28 |
| zakkm | hd? | 08:28 |
| luke-jr | if the Chinese can do better than Nokia, then who needs Nokia? ;) | 08:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: but it still looked like diablo pretty much | 08:29 |
| zakkm | i want that smartq5 ! :P | 08:29 |
| RST38h | same desktop | 08:29 |
| StsN800 | we are mostly post-diablo sources | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | zakkm: no keyboard afaik | 08:29 |
| zakkm | diablo is older | 08:29 |
| zakkm | no keyboard? | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | 512 MB RAM *is* nice tho | 08:29 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, well, h-d is just about the last Diablo hold-over | 08:29 |
| zakkm | i have a n800, dont have one anyways | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | heh | 08:29 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, not same ver as diablo one - fremanntle api one | 08:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: but it is the only thing the user sees anyway | 08:29 |
| StsN800 | rest is mostly fremantle src | 08:30 |
| zakkm | i still think it needs some animation-like UI .. the tablet | 08:30 |
| zakkm | like liqbase or something but much more .. system-wide or something | 08:30 |
| luke-jr | my N810 is building glibc 2.8 ;) | 08:31 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah. so for purposes of this hypothetical "Chinese PMP" situation, H-D is the only thing that matters. From a programmers point of view it's mostly Fremantle though | 08:31 |
| johnx | luke-jr, why so old? | 08:31 |
| luke-jr | johnx: old? | 08:31 |
| johnx | not 2.9? | 08:32 |
| zakkm | what if it hates it, and stops being so opensourced, like the tablet and fremantle | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | johnx: 2.8 just went stable for Gentoo ARM | 08:32 |
| zakkm | what exactly is hildon-desktop? is it the window manager? | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | is Mer working with 2.9? O.o | 08:33 |
| johnx | luke-jr, of course | 08:33 |
| johnx | zakkm, hildon-desktop is the side and top bar, and when we talk about it we usually are referring to the whole desktop, which includes matchbox window manager | 08:33 |
| zakkm | why doesnt mer do that anyways | 08:34 |
| zakkm | that way its a clone of like maemo.. and just update like that | 08:34 |
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| johnx | "<zakkm> why doesnt mer do that anyways" Sorry, but what do you mean by "do that"? | 08:34 |
| zakkm | have maemo look | 08:35 |
| johnx | the old maemo look? | 08:35 |
| zakkm | yeah | 08:35 |
| zakkm | the old mer i suppose | 08:35 |
| johnx | we were for a while, but we like the new look | 08:35 |
| johnx | it frees up more space for status bar applets, more space for apps and keeps the same functionality | 08:35 |
| johnx | without too much work you could probably make a set of packages that emulated the old look | 08:36 |
| zakkm | that would be cool to add in installer :P | 08:36 |
| zakkm | "new look" or "old" | 08:36 |
| johnx | definitely. send us the patch :D | 08:36 |
| zakkm | yeahh i been meaing to ask | 08:37 |
| zakkm | where would i find the script | 08:37 |
| zakkm | the "install mer" one | 08:37 |
| johnx | in the merinstaller package :) | 08:38 |
| johnx | it's just an sh script | 08:38 |
| zakkm | yeah i was hoping it was a .sh | 08:38 |
| johnx | or here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller | 08:38 |
| zakkm | no download button? :( | 08:39 |
| zakkm | bzr only? | 08:39 |
| zakkm | oh there | 08:39 |
| zakkm | johnx: wheres the .sh ? | 08:40 |
| Valois | n 1 here can help me with aircrack? | 08:40 |
| johnx | merinstaller under libexec | 08:40 |
| johnx | Valois, I don't think many people here use it | 08:41 |
| johnx | Valois, have you checked the threads on ITT? | 08:41 |
| zakkm | johnx: if i were to get whole bzr branch.. edit the sh .. copy to nokia, could i compile on nokia and make a deb package? | 08:42 |
| johnx | it's pretty hard to make a deb package on the tablet under Maemo, but it's definitely possible under Mer | 08:42 |
| zakkm | i have mer x86 ? | 08:42 |
| zakkm | on virtualbox | 08:43 |
| johnx | you could use that too, or ubuntu | 08:43 |
| zakkm | it will work okay in virtual machine? | 08:43 |
| johnx | yeah, I believe so. No need to compile in this case as it's all just sh scripts | 08:43 |
| johnx | just dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot | 08:43 |
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| zakkm | whats the .sh for post-install ? | 08:46 |
| zakkm | is there any? | 08:46 |
| zakkm | or is that stuck inside the mer rootfs/ | 08:46 |
| johnx | you mean the thing you see when you first boot Mer? | 08:46 |
| zakkm | i was planning to add extra packages to install | 08:47 |
| zakkm | like mer installs, and then it automatically apt-get's and gets stuff | 08:47 |
| johnx | packages that would be installed in Mer or in Maemo? | 08:47 |
| zakkm | mer | 08:47 |
| zakkm | i guess i could add chroot to the script? | 08:47 |
| zakkm | and then apt-get -y | 08:47 |
| johnx | you probably want to make a new fs image ... | 08:47 |
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| zakkm | that would get complicated though, cause as mer updates, so would the new fs image of mine | 08:48 |
| johnx | easier to do it once and not have to worry about it | 08:48 |
| zakkm | if its done in merinstaller script, mer can update.. and still have same script for install | 08:48 |
| johnx | ah, well, then you could add it to "first-boot-wizard" | 08:48 |
| zakkm | does it change often? | 08:48 |
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| zakkm | i guess i could do it and evantually propose it into the actual mer fs | 08:49 |
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| johnx | zakkm, interesting that you ask that. I plan to change it soon, but that change should make it possible to add new "steps" to the "wizard" just by adding your own script | 08:49 |
| zakkm | like when you boot mer/ mer almost done installing there would be a GUI for like.. "Gnome" "XFCE "hildon" and such and then it apt-get's accordingly, and then again for like specific choices of default web browser/additional ones | 08:50 |
| johnx | hmm...really best off doing that with a different image for that big of a change | 08:50 |
| johnx | I assume you don't want the hildon libs at all | 08:50 |
| zakkm | actually could it be possible to chroot from merinstaller script, and then wget a "firstbootwizard .sh" and replace it ? | 08:50 |
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| zakkm | that would keep the main image lower filesize i would think | 08:51 |
| zakkm | and still let them have what they want | 08:51 |
| zakkm | SD cards to consider | 08:51 |
| johnx | yeah, technically, but if you want to integrate with Mer at some point, that's not the way to do it | 08:51 |
| zakkm | well it would get changed at that point i would think , iwas just thinking for testing | 08:51 |
| zakkm | is the rootfs just tar of / ? | 08:52 |
| johnx | yup | 08:52 |
| zakkm | the rootfs file | 08:52 |
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| zakkm | ah then that could work , that would be cool eh? | 08:52 |
| johnx | in some cases, some packages might not install too well from a chroot though | 08:52 |
| johnx | give it a test though | 08:53 |
| zakkm | you think that seems nice though? if it does 100% succeed and work? | 08:53 |
| zakkm | like a good idea? | 08:53 |
| johnx | hmm? to chroot during the installer? | 08:53 |
| zakkm | no | 08:53 |
| zakkm | having a menu of DE/WM choices.. and apt-gets accordingly + software default/install choices | 08:53 |
| Valois | [johnx]: sorry the delay, what is ITT? | 08:54 |
| johnx | ~itt | 08:54 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) | 08:54 |
| johnx | zakkm, thinking about that. gimme a sec | 08:55 |
| johnx | Valois, there's a couple threads on aircrack there, but I don't think anyone got it working 100% | 08:55 |
| Valois | its a web forum? | 08:55 |
| zakkm | the maemo driver doesnt support packet injection, so it makes it takee impossible times to "crack" | 08:55 |
| johnx | yes | 08:55 |
| zakkm | Valois, it would go too slow, its not worth it | 08:56 |
| zakkm | the nokia's battery would die, before you get the password | 08:56 |
| Valois | but couldnt i inject from pc | 08:56 |
| Valois | the data? | 08:56 |
| zakkm | could do it all on pc then? idkk im just saying what i know of aircrack on maemo/tablet | 08:56 |
| zakkm | it works, can install , runs fine | 08:57 |
| zakkm | but no packet injection | 08:57 |
| Valois | hmm | 08:57 |
| johnx | zakkm, so have this menu be part of merinstaller or part of first-boot-wizard? | 08:57 |
| Valois | thank you | 08:57 |
| zakkm | for the purpose of disk space i would think merinstaller, but it seems better off/easier as part of first-boot-wizard | 08:58 |
| zakkm | like if its in installer, you have maemos wifi on, etc etc that it "cant" fail | 08:58 |
| johnx | the problem with first-boot-wizard is right now there's no network access yet when f-b-w is running | 08:58 |
| zakkm | if its in first-boot-wizard, network isnt started yet | 08:58 |
| zakkm | also if they dont want hildon.. first-boot-wizard requires hildon doesnt it? | 08:59 |
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| zakkm | i dont know much about mer, but first-boot-wizard seemed gtk/ hildon-dependent | 08:59 |
| johnx | zakkm, right now the package depends on hildon, but the script doesn't. | 08:59 |
| johnx | it would be happy with normal gtk | 08:59 |
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| johnx | I think having merinstaller give you a choice of images to download/install would be easiest | 09:00 |
| zakkm | but it would be hard to maintain | 09:00 |
| johnx | not really. we just make a new imager script and run it on every release | 09:00 |
| zakkm | i mean one mer update to 0.14 lets say, that might require 14 images? | 09:00 |
| johnx | the script runs 14 times, 14 images come out the other end. if the script fails to generate an image, then it would have failed to install on the tablet as well | 09:01 |
| zakkm | yeah i realize the failing part but i mean .. hosting 14 images, if one person wants to change one simple thing thats a whole new image | 09:01 |
| johnx | but, actually, if you can modify merinstaller so it works nicely and doesn't impact the actual mer install or make it harder to maintain, then sure, go for it | 09:02 |
| zakkm | while my main idea was to apt-get.. which would be alot less download size/time and less bandwidth | 09:02 |
| zakkm | than redownloading a whole image | 09:02 |
| zakkm | and that would require replacing / | 09:02 |
| johnx | if you don't want hildon, you need to at least make one base image though without it | 09:02 |
| zakkm | i do want hildon, i just meant hildon as a choice.. to make it "default" | 09:03 |
| zakkm | like always have hildon | 09:03 |
| zakkm | otherwise theres no keyboard or anything? | 09:03 |
| johnx | no hildon = no onscreen keyboard | 09:03 |
| johnx | you'd need to supply another one | 09:03 |
| zakkm | but if you choose gnome over hildon.. its not hildon doesnt get installed its just its not default WM/DE.. gnome is | 09:03 |
| johnx | ah, but hildon is a lot of libraries | 09:04 |
| johnx | right now in mer we have a different gtk than ubuntu uses that has special support for hildon | 09:04 |
| zakkm | is it the same as maemo, just curious | 09:04 |
| zakkm | the patched gtk | 09:04 |
| johnx | same as fremantle | 09:04 |
| johnx | yeah | 09:04 |
| johnx | so *right now* you can't exactly have hildon-desktop installed at the same time as gnome-desktop in mer | 09:05 |
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| zakkm | you cant? | 09:05 |
| johnx | that's correct | 09:05 |
| zakkm | i got fvwm-crystal going in my mer x86 ? | 09:05 |
| zakkm | i just changed xinitrc | 09:05 |
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| johnx | fvwm-crystal != gnome-desktop :) | 09:05 |
| zakkm | is it just gnome? | 09:06 |
| johnx | kde + hildon is ok. lxde + hildon is probably ok | 09:06 |
| johnx | it's just gnome. gnome wants a different version of gtk than we have | 09:06 |
| zakkm | oh | 09:06 |
| zakkm | okay so not gnome | 09:06 |
| zakkm | :( | 09:06 |
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| johnx | well, you don't want gnome anyways :) | 09:06 |
| zakkm | or not during beginning anyways | 09:06 |
| zakkm | baby steps | 09:06 |
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| johnx | first, get 512MB of RAM soldered in, then worry about installing gnome ;) | 09:07 |
| zakkm | yeah that too | 09:07 |
| zakkm | i dont know, people said it runs quite fine actually | 09:07 |
| zakkm | i dont believe it , but some people here swear by it | 09:07 |
| johnx | some people here play chess by mail as well :) | 09:07 |
| luke-jr | GNOME *never* runs fine.. | 09:08 |
| johnx | lxde was too slow for me | 09:08 |
| zakkm | performance wise | 09:08 |
| luke-jr | KDE would be usable were Plasma not a memory hug | 09:08 |
| luke-jr | hog* | 09:08 |
| zakkm | fluxbox, fvwm, openbox, ratpoison, .. im guessing are the choices? :) | 09:08 |
| johnx | zakkm, wmaker :) | 09:09 |
| zakkm | even for software though | 09:09 |
| johnx | xfce and lxde are usable to some degree | 09:09 |
| zakkm | didnt penguinbait do wmaker for maemo? | 09:09 |
| johnx | a long time ago | 09:09 |
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| johnx | not that wmaker changes much these days :/ | 09:09 |
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| zakkm | even software installer though, like "simple software installer" | 09:11 |
| zakkm | i guess application manager is good though so idk | 09:12 |
| zakkm | choices could be a good thing though | 09:12 |
| johnx | yeah, that's what I ran into too in deblet | 09:12 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | ratpoison should be rather crappy on something that mostly relies on "mouse" | 09:12 |
| zakkm | it was a joke ;p | 09:12 |
| johnx | well, I like having access to desktop apps, but a lot of the good apps were really for maemo | 09:12 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | zakkm, well, ratpoison would kind of rule because it always goes to fullscreen | 09:13 |
| zakkm | i havent seen ratpoison in years | 09:13 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | it doesn't suit me for sure | 09:14 |
| zakkm | johnx: was thinking e17 would be a good choice, neatojones was doing it anyways with e17 debs | 09:14 |
| johnx | could be interesting | 09:14 |
| johnx | doesn't seem to finger friendly, but that could change | 09:14 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | aewm++? :) | 09:14 |
| zakkm | that would be easily implemented, with his permission but i dont know why he wouldnt approve | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | e17 would be nice if it was friggen done.. | 09:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:14 |
| zakkm | johnx: e17 has some alternate choices .. not the same as desktop one | 09:14 |
| zakkm | lol | 09:15 |
| zakkm | Stskeeps: forever beta? | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | forever svn | 09:15 |
| zakkm | just downloaded the newest elive disc :D | 09:15 |
| johnx | zakkm, I know. I played with it a bit. | 09:15 |
| zakkm | virtualbox doesnt like it :( | 09:15 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, that's how enlightenment works :) | 09:15 |
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| zakkm | new virtualbox supports compiz/ecomorph | 09:15 |
| johnx | really? craziness | 09:15 |
| zakkm | opengl 3d acceleration | 09:16 |
| zakkm | anyways, stskeeps did you listen to my idea for mer? | 09:16 |
| Stskeeps | if you repeat it, i might | 09:17 |
| zakkm | hah | 09:17 |
| zakkm | in mer installer script // first boot wizard... having a menu saying "Gnome, hildon, xfce, e17" and lets you select one. .and whichever you click.. the choice would be apt-get -y'd | 09:17 |
| zakkm | and add to xinitrc | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, except wifi is not loaded at that point | 09:18 |
| zakkm | i know it has flaws lol | 09:18 |
| zakkm | but the idea of giving the user choices | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | my idea is to have a control panel "Desktop environments", where in AM you can install "xfce-env" and such | 09:18 |
| zakkm | yeah | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | and in powerlaunch menu you can have "Switch to LXDE" or "Switch to Hildon" | 09:18 |
| zakkm | i was going to say possibly a app in the menu | 09:18 |
| zakkm | :( | 09:18 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | heh, compiz | 09:22 |
| zakkm | ? | 09:23 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | ops... | 09:23 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | you already had that | 09:23 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | but why not... think the processor is too slow for compiz? | 09:24 |
| johnx | yes. and not enough RAM, and no hardware GL, also, not enough screen space to make it worthwhile | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp_ | your goal is to have no battery after 10 minutes or 5? | 09:25 |
| johnx | but other than that, yeah sounds good | 09:25 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | yeah :) | 09:25 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | tiny little problems :-P | 09:25 |
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| zakkm | 10! :D | 09:26 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | battery life of 10 minutes should be worthwhile the eye-candy! | 09:28 |
| johnx | putting that kind of draw on the battery might be a fire hazard | 09:29 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hehe | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, the device in standard config is supposed to kill itself if it thinks it's overheating | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | however if you go about voiding the warrantee, i will not care if it burns you | 09:30 |
| johnx | heh, unless we're running a modified bme? | 09:30 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | kill itself as in "switch off" or as in "explode"? | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. if you do something like that | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | CutMeOwnThroat: yes | 09:30 |
| luke-jr | LOL | 09:30 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | I see | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | CutMeOwnThroat: note that asking a boolean logic question is stupid | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | the answer on average will be 'yes' | 09:31 |
| luke-jr | can it overhead? | 09:31 |
| luke-jr | overheat* | 09:31 |
| luke-jr | my N810 can get pretty hot, but it's never killed itself | 09:31 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | well... you answer it with something like as in "explode"!!!!!!11123 | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | luke-jr: i don't think it can fly or project in default configurations | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | but there is a video out adapter | 09:31 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 09:31 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | there is? | 09:32 |
| luke-jr | is someone equipping their N810 with wings? | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i think i've actually seen protos where the software was a bit overcautious and decided it had overheated and killed itself | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | (it wasn't hot, the calibration or software was just confused) | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_projector | 09:33 |
| luke-jr | mine is very hot right now | 09:33 |
| luke-jr | if it were any hotter, it'd burn me | 09:33 |
| timeless_mbp | http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=fly+overhead | 09:33 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | that's not what I'd call "video out" | 09:33 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | uh, I don't think mine ever got hot yet | 09:35 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | but then I've never tried to compile gentoo on it | 09:35 |
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| luke-jr | LOL | 09:37 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | how's it going, btw | 09:37 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | last I remember was | 09:37 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | <luke-jr> CutMeOwnThroat: like I said, I'm 82% doen w/ kdelibs | 09:37 |
| luke-jr | CutMeOwnThroat: eh, it's upgrading glibc now | 09:38 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | endless fun, indeed | 09:38 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | what advantage would gentoo have? | 09:38 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | can you take advantage of processor-specific optimizations? | 09:39 |
| luke-jr | CutMeOwnThroat: flexibility | 09:39 |
| luke-jr | that too | 09:39 |
| luke-jr | not sure how much it helps | 09:39 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | but maemo would definitely have that, too | 09:40 |
| luke-jr | maybe | 09:40 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | debian/ubuntu not, though | 09:40 |
| luke-jr | I just got my old Zaurus booted | 09:41 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | how does it perform compared to a desktop x86 processor, btw? | 09:41 |
| luke-jr | eh? | 09:41 |
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| johnx | CutMeOwnThroat, think 350MHz K6 or so | 09:42 |
| johnx | not a K6-2 | 09:42 |
| luke-jr | johnx: eh? | 09:43 |
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| luke-jr | ARM should be faster than x86, not slower | 09:43 |
| johnx | luke-jr, really? how's the FPU? | 09:43 |
| Guest3310_271 | how get all permission root in emelfm2? | 09:44 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | it's risc... shouldnt that use more commands/task, i.e. be slower? | 09:44 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hmm | 09:44 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | although suns ... | 09:44 |
| luke-jr | johnx: ? | 09:45 |
| luke-jr | CutMeOwnThroat: more instructions run per cycle ;) | 09:45 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | ok | 09:45 |
| johnx | luke-jr, how's the vfp vs an x86 fpu? | 09:46 |
| luke-jr | no idea | 09:46 |
| johnx | hint: it's not very fast | 09:46 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | anyway, sun sparcs used to be faster if on the same rate | 09:46 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hm, I see | 09:49 |
| luke-jr | hum | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: ping | 09:49 |
| luke-jr | Zaurus only has 64 MB RAM :x | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: can you confirm https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=563546 | 09:49 |
| luke-jr | I better not try to run KDE 4 on it | 09:49 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | probably no big wonder than that it had problems playing fast movement of a 688x384 film :) | 09:50 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | huh | 09:51 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 09:52 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | unable to connect via usb memory card in use... remove memory card | 09:52 |
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| Guest3310_271 | how get all permission root in emelfm2? | 09:53 |
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| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: what about 688x384 film? btw, FPU is not needed for decoding video | 09:54 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | ssvb, not much... mplayer showed stills when there was a lot of motion | 09:55 |
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| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: mplayer is well optimized for x86, this is not the case for ARMv6, additionally memory throughput does matter a lot and memory is not so fast in N800 | 09:57 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | the default player didn't play it, though | 09:57 |
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| aquatix | i think 688x384 is a tad much for a n8x0 | 09:58 |
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| ssvb | still mplayer would gain a noticeable performance improvement if optimized more | 09:58 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | it's optimized to hell... | 09:58 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | on x86 :) | 09:58 |
| ssvb | it does not use HW up to its limit | 09:58 |
| aquatix | ssvb: well, have fun with doing so :) | 09:59 |
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| aquatix | we'll be grateful | 09:59 |
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| ssvb | aquatix: had fun, not anymore :) | 10:00 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hm | 10:00 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | mplayer seems to use floating point units if available for decoding, though | 10:00 |
| ssvb | and contrary to popular belief, LCD controller is not at fault for video playback slowness | 10:01 |
| aquatix | ssvb: you gave up or something? | 10:01 |
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| GAN800 | ssvb, think I could talk you into writing up a general overview of why playback is slow and where people might be able to help? | 10:02 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: floating point is used for audio decoding, not for video | 10:02 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | yeah | 10:02 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | I know... there seem to be lots of discussions on audio decoding performance | 10:02 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | still looking for video ones | 10:02 |
| GAN800 | It's sort of a voodoo magic thing to most people and I think it would help the issue a lot if people knew what was actually going on. | 10:02 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | hm, might try different output modules of mplayer | 10:04 |
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| ssvb | GAN800: mplayer/ffmpeg has a number of functions that have optimized variants for different processors, ARMv6 support is not so good | 10:04 |
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| usicow | At some stage I had to kill the media player, and since then it doesnt see any media thats on my removable SD card. When I open the media player it says 'refreshing library', but nothing ever happens.. and the CPU looks like its not doing anything at all. Does anyone know how I can fix this? | 10:04 |
| ssvb | GAN800: iDCT can be improved a lot, also motion compensation can benefit from ARMv6 | 10:05 |
| timeless_mbp | usicow: you probably whacked meta-crawler | 10:05 |
| ssvb | GAN800: LCD bandwidth is good enough for any video with a resolution up to 800x480, CPU chokes much earlier | 10:08 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | guess mplayer -vo sdl won't do much good :) | 10:09 |
| ssvb | GAN800: LCD bandwidth was a serious problem for old versions of firmware, but not anymore | 10:09 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: yes, because SDL will try to do YUV->RGB conversion on ARM core, also its scaler is not optimized well | 10:10 |
| johnx | if it's not too complicated, could you say what what changed? | 10:10 |
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| ssvb | johnx: bugs fixed :) HW is capable of providing 27.5 fps of tear-free 800x480 rgb screen updates, for yuv it's even better because yuv uses 12 bits per pixel and not 16, so it can do more than 30 fps | 10:12 |
| ssvb | johnx: and LCD bandwidth depends on CPU speed too, it is fastest when CPU is running at 400MHz (the numbers above are for running at 400MHz) | 10:13 |
| ssvb | johnx: with very old revisions of firmware, CPU was running at 330MHz and it was a problem for graphics too | 10:14 |
| johnx | also, the default media player switched to 330 to put the DSP at top speed for mp3 decoding, yes? | 10:15 |
| ssvb | yes, it's a problem of the default media player | 10:15 |
| usicow | timeless_mbp: I have run meta-crawler from a terminal window and it just ran and ended in liek 1 second without any output.. is that what it should do? | 10:15 |
| zakkm | :( arora crashes alot | 10:16 |
| johnx | usicow, have you tried restarting metalayer crawler from /etc/init.d or just rebooting? | 10:16 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | there's -vo omapfb "nokia 770 video driver" | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | usicow: *shrug*, i don't deal w/ meta-crawler | 10:16 |
| timeless_mbp | ime it's just pain :) | 10:16 |
| RaymondL_ | Hi, one question for virtual keyboard. | 10:17 |
| timeless_mbp | the virtual keyboard is not programmed to answer questions | 10:18 |
| ssvb | johnx: still it is not very good that DVFS is not taking graphics activity into account, for example a test application which only pushes updates to screen and does not load cpu much will have pretty bad tearing (cpu will go down to 165MHz, graphics bus is tied to cpu clock speed with some multiplier and as a result screen updates will be extremely slow) | 10:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | nor would something named "keyboard" that was "virtual" be programmed to answer questions | 10:18 |
| RaymondL_ | I notice that when the Virtual keyboard is launched, the application window will be automatically resized, so that vkb and app window do not overlap each other | 10:18 |
| RaymondL_ | timeless_mbp: :) | 10:19 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp, was that funded by Nokia? | 10:19 |
| usicow | johnx: I have tried that.. but just to be sure I just stopped and started /etc/init.d/meta-crawler0 but still the same problem. Do you think its logging some error somewhere? | 10:19 |
| ssvb | johnx: forcing cpu to the highest clock frequency helps, that's one of the things that liqbase is doing afaik | 10:19 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: Artificial Intelligence to answer Interview questions? | 10:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i doubt it, we don't have enough intelligence for normal people to answer such questions | 10:20 |
| RaymondL_ | but I search through HIM's code , do not find anything related to this feature. Anyone can throw a light on me? | 10:20 |
| johnx | usicow, probably not. I would look in the metalayer startup script and see if you can figure out a way to run it from the terminal and have it display errors. Sorry, but I don't have much experience with metalayer-crawler... | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | RaymondL_: would a lit match do? | 10:20 |
| crashanddie | timeless, "mbp", did Nokia fund that? | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: yes :) | 10:20 |
| usicow | ok | 10:20 |
| crashanddie | :) | 10:20 |
| johnx | RaymondL_, it's a matchbox window manager feature | 10:20 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: yes, this driver has the lowest overhead, uses hardware YUV->RGB conversion and scaling | 10:20 |
| timeless_mbp | or would you prefer a molotov cocktail? | 10:20 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | doesn't seem to do a lot better than xv on my sample, though | 10:21 |
| RaymondL_ | johnx: oh, really :) so what is this feature call ? | 10:21 |
| crashanddie | timeless, I asked my company to buy me a Mac, the CFO told me "Bad joke seriously dude" | 10:21 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: XV is also quite good if colorkey is explicitly disabled | 10:21 |
| crashanddie | (I didn't know he was in the room) | 10:21 |
| johnx | RaymondL_, it's called, pay special attention to a certain window and don't let it overlap the other one :) | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: we have a 3 layer approval process for macs these days | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a powerful manager :) | 10:21 |
| crashanddie | timeless, at least you have an approval process | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | it came w/in days | 10:21 |
| crashanddie | bastard | 10:21 |
| timeless_mbp | whereas, it took me a couple of months to get a certain other item | 10:21 |
| crashanddie | I'm still trying to justify the acquisition of a 1TB hard drive | 10:22 |
| RaymondL_ | johnx, ok, this nick name is cool. so it's some kind of wm hint? | 10:22 |
| crashanddie | "But, I ran out of space... I have 600Gig worth of VMs ffs" | 10:22 |
| crashanddie | "What is the business requirement for your purchase?" | 10:22 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: cpu is the bottleneck for your sample, even zero overhead graphics output would not help it much | 10:22 |
| johnx | RaymondL_, matchbox window manager is a full screen window manager. I'm pretty sure the keyboard window is classified as a "dock" (like the panels) and so it won't overlap the application window | 10:22 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hehe | 10:23 |
| johnx | RaymondL_, I would interrogate with keyboard window with some X11 tools and see what it's properties are | 10:23 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | funny, -hardframedrop doesn't help, but creates loads of jpeg artifacts | 10:23 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: working virtualization and reliable hardware :) | 10:23 |
| crashanddie | is this someone trying to play HD content again? | 10:23 |
| timeless_mbp | and speed | 10:23 |
| timeless_mbp | because the windows laptops have to have full disk encryption | 10:24 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp, dude we're going to have to talk | 10:24 |
| RaymondL_ | johnx, I see. so without except than matchbox wm, other wm say metacity have similar feature? | 10:24 |
| timeless_mbp | the mac laptops are only required to use File Vault for Nokia confidential stuff | 10:24 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: you can try halfresolution decoding, '-lavdopts lowres=1', also if you are running mplayer from console, be sure to use -quiet option | 10:25 |
| RaymondL_ | s/without except/except/ | 10:25 |
| infobot | RaymondL_ meant: johnx, I see. so except than matchbox wm, other wm say metacity have similar feature? | 10:25 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp, hmm, I'm afraid for us that's going to be a bit more sensitive... | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | more sensitive than nokia confidential? | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | that's unpossible | 10:25 |
| RaymondL_ | infobot: right | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:25 |
| infobot | blah blah blah/spam spam spam/yaddayaddayaddayadda sis boom bam | 10:25 |
| johnx | RaymondL_, metacity will treat the hildon keyboard pretty differently. If I recall, I don't think it handles it very elegantly. this goes for several other window managers. sawfish can be made to work with it to some degree with a bit of configuration work | 10:26 |
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| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: in a somewhat artificial setup, N800 is capable of decoding 480p big buck bunny video in realtime (but without sound) :) | 10:27 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | ssvb, right, that helps, albeit making things fuzzy and w some jpeg artifacts as well... | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | RaymondL_: fwiw the behavior is actually awful | 10:27 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hehe | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | so please don't choose to emulate it | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp | it results in all sorts of problems for web browsers | 10:27 |
| RaymondL_ | johnx, OK, so there is no common way to perform this dock task right? sounds bad. | 10:27 |
| johnx | timeless_mbp, that the window is resized? | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | yes | 10:28 |
| RaymondL_ | timeless_mbp: awful? | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | which causes the web page to consider self destructing | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | because it heard about the window size change | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and because there was a feature in n4 where resizes did something strange | 10:28 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, www.actividentity.com ;) | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | so pages would intentionally reload | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: ah :P | 10:28 |
| crashanddie | shit, forgot to notice that | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | and if you reload the page | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp | you typically lose focus from the input field | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: goatse.cx you say.. | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | which means that there's no need for the input method window | 10:29 |
| crashanddie | lol | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | which means it goes away | 10:29 |
| timeless_mbp | which means ... | 10:29 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | ssvb, indeed I didn't try the audio options that mplayer suggests (and I'm just mostly playing around ... hadn't really though of watching movies on there... but if it can do it of course... I gotta see how well it does) | 10:29 |
| johnx | RaymondL_, you can set the dock property under any window manager. It's attached to the window, not the window manager after all, but different window managers treat docks differently | 10:29 |
| RaymondL_ | timeless_mbp, sounds to me that web browser should fix the problem :) | 10:30 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: IIRC, some of the audio sampling rates are very bad for performance in mplayer (resampling happens somewhere and kills the performance) | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | RaymondL_: you mean by implementing our own window manager and input method? | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | gee, tempting | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp | but yeah, we're working on it | 10:30 |
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| LiraNuna | is there dash for maemo? | 10:31 |
| johnx | s/working on it/dropping the stylus keyboard/ ? | 10:31 |
| johnx | LiraNuna, nope. it's already using ash. There's a bash package | 10:31 |
| LiraNuna | bash is heavy | 10:31 |
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| johnx | dash isn't really meant for users, is it? or were you thinking of running a script from somewhere? | 10:32 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | ssvb, but I guess the main thing really is "don't try to play a big DivX on a slow CPU!" :) | 10:32 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: 48KHz audio slows everything down | 10:32 |
| * johnx remembers this conversation with ssvb and will drop it on a wiki at some point | 10:32 | |
| johnx | ssvb, so 44.1KHz? Is 22050Hz ok as well? | 10:33 |
| LiraNuna | johnx, of course it's meant for users, ls -l /bin/sh lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2009-02-28 04:04 /bin/sh -> dash | 10:33 |
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| zakkm | normal 350mb 44min xvid's work fine for me on n800? | 10:34 |
| ssvb | johnx: 44.1 should be much better, don't know anything about 22 | 10:34 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | oh yeah | 10:34 |
| johnx | LiraNuna, I should have said "as a login shell" | 10:34 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | runs fine with -nosound | 10:34 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | not with -ao null, though - that must still decode and then just dispose of it | 10:35 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | but that means choosing -ao something won't change things | 10:36 |
| LiraNuna | what about cross develop on 64bit? maemo sdk refuses to install | 10:36 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: you can't be sure that it is fine, it could be displayed in "slow motion" | 10:36 |
| johnx | LiraNuna, I know people do it. for the most part you can just hack the installer to not check I think | 10:36 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | ssvb, well, it's gone away from the stills... that is "fine" | 10:37 |
| LiraNuna | johnx, can I compile my own toolchain? | 10:37 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | true, without sound I wouldn't notice if it ran a bit slower | 10:37 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: that's not fine if you are interested in audio | 10:37 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | too true | 10:38 |
| johnx | LiraNuna, I don't know anyone who has, but I guess the answer is "technically, yes." | 10:38 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | you need two of the things :) one for video, one for audio | 10:38 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: you can also use -noframedrop option, in this case video will be also smooth, but out of sync with audio | 10:38 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: and you can adjust playback speed to slow it down a bit, but audio pitch will be wrong | 10:39 |
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| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: something like '-speed 0.8' | 10:41 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | there's actually a cool audio filter | 10:41 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | scaletempo will adjust the pitch | 10:41 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | (not that that's overly helpful in this case) | 10:41 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | which means you can watch videos at 1.8x speed without thinking you're listening to pixies | 10:42 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hm, can one copy&paste in the osso_xterm? | 10:42 |
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| zakkm | whats wrong with mplayer? | 10:42 |
| zakkm | doesnt it play well enough for you guys | 10:43 |
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| ssvb | zakkm: it's not perfect :) | 10:44 |
| zakkm | plays perfectly, and theres no way your get 720p going | 10:44 |
| ssvb | 480p would be nice :) | 10:45 |
| zakkm | it does? | 10:45 |
| zakkm | not mpeg-2 tho | 10:45 |
| zakkm | 480p xvid works just fine? | 10:45 |
| ssvb | only on some videos | 10:45 |
| zakkm | tv shows, 175mb/350mb xvid's play fine for me, never notice a framedrop or anything | 10:45 |
| zakkm | sure you got a up-to-date mplayer? | 10:46 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | well, -lavdopts lowres=1 is probably the way to go | 10:46 |
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| zakkm | thats not 480p then ;p | 10:46 |
| zakkm | thats a lower quality, without encoding | 10:46 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | no | 10:46 |
| zakkm | lowres=1 .. | 10:47 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | it specially fuzzes out quite a lot in between keyframes, if I see that right | 10:47 |
| ssvb | CutMeOwnThroat: it actually decodes at half resolution, for example uses 4x4 idct instead of 8x8 tweaks motion compensation, etc. | 10:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | hmm | 10:48 |
| zakkm | hence = lower quality. | 10:48 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | guess I'll have to choose a different sample :) | 10:48 |
| zakkm | just use normal 175mb/350mb xvid's | 10:48 |
| zakkm | or if your encoding, go h.264 | 10:49 |
| ssvb | this option is only good when you have some video file and want to play it back on your device (having no possibility to transcode it) | 10:49 |
| ssvb | the other hacks are using grayscale decoding, this saves some cpu load too | 10:49 |
| zakkm | have filesize to consider too | 10:49 |
| zakkm | if your at home, use knots it would transcode | 10:50 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | well, this is 700MB | 10:50 |
| zakkm | 700mb what? | 10:50 |
| zakkm | how many mins | 10:50 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | 1:17 | 10:50 |
| zakkm | that should play perfectly | 10:50 |
| zakkm | ? | 10:51 |
| zakkm | well almost | 10:51 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 688 x 384, 25.00 fps, video: XviD, audio: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (stereo, 48000 Hz) | 10:51 |
| zakkm | that should play okay | 10:51 |
| zakkm | g2gg sorry | 10:51 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | not if there's fast motion | 10:51 |
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| ssvb | zakkm: it depends on how the file was encoded, B-frames are good for performance (can be easily skipped without artefacts), qpel is bad | 10:52 |
| ssvb | zakkm: gmc is extremely bad for performance | 10:52 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | he's gorn! | 10:53 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | how come your auto-complete didn't tell you :) | 10:54 |
| ssvb | ok :) | 10:54 |
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| ssvb | nevertheless default encoding options from xvid are quite good for low cpu usage, but if somebody starts to tweak options, the result may be unplayable on internet tablets | 10:56 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | buybuy | 10:56 |
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| RaymondL_ | hmm, seems matchbox-keyboard do resize works under matchbox-wm, by setting the the toolbar type to true | 11:03 |
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| LordFEL | hi guys | 11:22 |
| lardman | morning all | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | morning lardman | 11:23 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | indeed, it's 3AM | 11:23 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | damnit | 11:23 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | bedtime | 11:23 |
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| RST38h | moo lardman | 11:24 |
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| LordFEL | I was wondering if I could get some help setting up the SDK... I'm getting a weird error about the installer script not being able to run apt-get update inside scratchbox | 11:27 |
| lardman | hey RST38h | 11:27 |
| lardman | hey Stskeeps | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | heh, smartq brand headphones | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | neat | 11:28 |
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| t_s_o | hey Stskeeps, where did you get hold of your new toy? | 11:31 |
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| Stskeeps | t_s_o: a long shot | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | asked if they would like to donate one to the mer project .. and provided they hold their bargain we get 2 donated and 10 developer rebates | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | i got one, zenvoid waiting for his | 11:38 |
| RST38h | have you got their devkit already? | 11:38 |
| t_s_o | holy smokes, thats nice | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: not yet. but their community has produced a firmware maker | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | i just asked yesterday for that info so (kernel plus firmware maaker) | 11:39 |
| t_s_o | hmm, reading a article just now, is this device smaller then the N800? | 11:41 |
| RST38h | ah | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: screen size same, but no dpad or kickstand | 11:41 |
| t_s_o | ah | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | or good speakers | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | its a neat low cost tablet | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | screen is quite nice and it seems to be armv7 | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | and its light | 11:44 |
| lardman | what's this device? | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | smartq 5 mid | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | runs ubuntu 8.04 | 11:45 |
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| * lardman is looking for something MID-like | 11:46 | |
| lardman | no kb though? | 11:46 |
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| lardman | looks cool though, and very cheap | 11:47 |
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| lardman | I used Navicore (or whatever it's called now) to navigate to and from Norfolk this weekend, and it was pretty good | 11:49 |
| lardman | I don't know what people were complaining about, other than the "take turn now" once you've already turned down it/gone past it ;) | 11:49 |
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| lcuk | lardman - "at the traffic circle" | 11:57 |
| lcuk | tracy loves todd | 11:57 |
| lardman | no, it says roundabout I think doesn't it? | 11:57 |
| lcuk | i think it depends which voice | 11:58 |
| lardman | by that point my codriver has already told me which exit and I'm lining up on the racing line... | 11:58 |
| lardman | left 40, do not cut, flat in 4th | 11:58 |
| lardman | etc | 11:58 |
| lcuk | heh yeah so u survived then | 11:58 |
| lardman | yeah, no phone signals in Norfolk though, quite a quiet weekend | 11:58 |
| lcuk | thats a good thing | 11:58 |
| lcuk | i have only ever been there once | 11:59 |
| t_s_o | if its the gps system used on the tablets, i think people is complaining about the "hidden" cost... | 11:59 |
| lcuk | yes t_s_o i agree there | 11:59 |
| lardman | yeah perhaps, I got a licence + new Nokia GPS (i.e. BT, one which works) for £30 or so | 11:59 |
| lcuk | but the functionality itself is worth having | 12:00 |
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| lardman | those sirfstar3 GPSes are bloody wonderful, drive a few hundred miles, turn it on and it's locked in about 10s flat inside a car | 12:01 |
| t_s_o | heh, now im tempted to get myself a new one. i got a sirf2 or something as i didnt do my research properly... | 12:02 |
| t_s_o | not that i use gps much so... | 12:02 |
| * lardman wonders, GPS navigation which outputs pacenotes.... :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacenotes | 12:02 | |
| lcuk | yeah, what it doesnt tell u is that it uses a camera, looks at the sky and uses stars properly ;) | 12:02 |
| LiraNuna | ScummVM works really well on the N810 | 12:02 |
| * lcuk crashes vista for the 10th time this mornin | 12:02 | |
| lardman | t_s_o: over here you can get them for next to nothing (not the Nokia one, but same chipset) i.e. £30, I'd recommend it over the previous gen | 12:02 |
| lardman | lcuk: well in Norfolk that might actually work, you can see more than 3 stars there! | 12:03 |
| * timeless_mbp looks for a nokian | 12:03 | |
| * timeless_mbp considers walking to work to hunt one down | 12:04 | |
| lardman | timeless_mbp: bow or gun? | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: thanks | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | lardman: leash | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | i just need someone to try logging into a mailbox | 12:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | actually, a net would work too | 12:04 |
| timeless_mbp | or snare | 12:04 |
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| LiraNuna | DotT works really really nice on the N810, even without HW accel | 12:12 |
| RST38h | why would it require hw acceleration? | 12:12 |
| LiraNuna | large rendering buffer | 12:13 |
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| LiraNuna | I see no tearing which is nice | 12:13 |
| RST38h | it is just showing pictures | 12:14 |
| RST38h | showing a static picture has never been a problem really | 12:14 |
| lcuk | RST38h, apart from on Stskeeps' dodgy n800 | 12:19 |
| LiraNuna | haha | 12:20 |
| lardman | oo, I've got 65 for discussion karma now, I think that's more than I had before | 12:20 |
| lcuk | arent u a moderator now - cant u just adjust your karma to whatever you want | 12:21 |
| lcuk | or tell ppl to thank you or be banned (mwahahahah) | 12:21 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: that;s a feature | 12:28 |
| lcuk | its only a feature if you can control it ! | 12:32 |
| wjt | feh. ScummVM really suffers from it being impossible to hover over things without clicking them | 12:35 |
| wjt | I found Beneath a Steel Sky pretty hard as a result | 12:35 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: He can turn it on and off! | 13:03 |
| lcuk | wjt, you can hover over things, but the system cannot detect you doing so | 13:03 |
| RST38h | that's control, isn't it? B) | 13:03 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, thats a good point | 13:03 |
| wjt | lcuk: well yes :) | 13:03 |
| lcuk | so to stop scrolling he shuts down pc | 13:03 |
| wjt | lcuk: i think it would have been better to have clicking mapped to hovering | 13:03 |
| wjt | lcuk: and to use the zoom buttons as LMB/RMB | 13:03 |
| lcuk | wjt, not at all | 13:03 |
| wjt | lcuk: not in the entire tablet | 13:04 |
| wjt | lcuk: just for scumm | 13:04 |
| wjt | because quite a few scumm puzzles depend on you scrubbing for usable objects | 13:04 |
| lcuk | better to have a windowing system that is happy with a mouse pointer that isnt continuous and will warp | 13:04 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: and made of bacon. | 13:10 |
| superjoe | RST38h: I'm reading your emulator howto pages | 13:11 |
| superjoe | good stuff | 13:11 |
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| lardman | lcuk: sorry for the tardy reply, had to get caffeine to counteract the swine flu | 13:15 |
| lardman | lcuk: no discussion karma is for ml posts | 13:15 |
| lardman | anyway, when do we expect the n900? | 13:17 |
| * lardman attempts to get back in the loop | 13:17 | |
| lcuk | you missed it, we are aiming for the n910 now :P | 13:18 |
| lardman | drat! ;) | 13:18 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: You don't have one yet? Everybody in here has had it for a long time ;) You're really missing out! | 13:19 |
| lcuk | mornin X-Fade '\o | 13:20 |
| lardman | X-Fade: :p anyway aren't you supposed to be working out where my Discussion karma has leaked away to? ;) | 13:20 |
| lardman | :D | 13:20 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: One thing to check is if it at least grows when you post a message now. | 13:20 |
| lardman | ok, I'll have a look at that | 13:21 |
| lcuk | can we rename karma pinocchio | 13:21 |
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| jaska | nose-over-ip | 13:25 |
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| lardman | Anyone have any recommendations for usb-vga adaptors? Are they all SiS based? | 13:32 |
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| GAN800 | lardman, MTK is better than SiRF | 13:34 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, is it a Cortex? | 13:34 |
| lardman | GAN800: you reckon? | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: samsung | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | kernel claims it's armv7 | 13:34 |
| GAN800 | lardman, the Startech is good for Linux compat. | 13:35 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, then is it Cortex? | 13:35 |
| lardman | I'm looking at cheapness as a major factor here | 13:35 |
| GAN800 | m | 13:36 |
| GAN800 | lardman, MTK has vastly better powersaving. SiRF IIIc is more inline, but nobody ships it. | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Hardware/SmartQ5 | 13:36 |
| lardman | fair enough, with a stand alone it doesn't make much odds though as the batteries are pretty big | 13:36 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, because if it's ARM11, as I've so often heard, then that makes exactly zero sense. | 13:37 |
| radic | is the use of hwclock --systohc not needed on the N800? | 13:37 |
| GAN800 | lardman, my i-Blue can easily run for 25 hours active. | 13:37 |
| GAN800 | The Startech.com VGA adaptors are about as cheap as they get. | 13:38 |
| lardman | that's longer than my n810 will run... so not necessary for me anyway. I think my SirfStar3 ones will last something like 15h, which is more than enough | 13:38 |
| * GAN800 thinks the nightmare he just woke up from probably has good potential as a horror flick. | 13:38 | |
| lardman | those are pretty dear over here ~£75 afaict | 13:39 |
| GAN800 | lardman, the i-Blue can sit for a week idle, however. | 13:39 |
| GAN800 | Anyway, point is, MTK is usually cheaper, too. | 13:39 |
| lardman | yeah but that's down to the gps controller, not the chipset, it switches it off and assumes that it can fast fix to overcome any problems | 13:40 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, something REALLY isn't meshing up there. | 13:40 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, is it or is it not a Cortex A8? | 13:41 |
| lardman | anyway I've not got an MTK one so I can't really comment, ss3 just looked a better bet when I bought one last year | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: well, it's armv6+vfp definately | 13:41 |
| GAN800 | lardman, SiRF III units don't do that. | 13:41 |
| GAN800 | You didn't look hard enough then. :P | 13:42 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, I dunno what to say, if it aint Cortex, it aint armv7 | 13:42 |
| lardman | yes they do | 13:42 |
| lardman | anyway I'm quite contented :) | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: i'm baffled too really | 13:43 |
| GAN800 | The fairly obvious answer is that somebody is lying | 13:43 |
| GAN800 | and that you should perpetrait the lie yourself. :P | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | they only claimed a certain samsung chip at least | 13:44 |
| GAN800 | s/should/shouldn't/ | 13:44 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: and that you shouldn't perpetrait the lie yourself. :P | 13:44 |
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| RST38h | perpetrate. | 13:44 |
| lardman | perpetuate | 13:44 |
| GAN800 | Whatever, I just woke up. | 13:44 |
| lardman | do vs continue | 13:45 |
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| GAN800 | This is really rather clearly ARM11: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=229&partnum=S3C6410 | 13:46 |
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| GAN800 | So it really can't also be armv7 | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | true | 13:47 |
| genewitch | I just recommended the n800 to a bunch of people for use in journalism, in combination with Wifi-SD cards for their cameras and a cellphone connection. :-) | 13:48 |
| genewitch | they tend to get arrested a lot, i figured there's no way to destroy evidence if it's already been uploaded with a script :-) | 13:48 |
| lardman | perhaps they are just getting confused with the hw vs instruction set naming | 13:48 |
| lardman | i.e. arm7 is the instruction set | 13:48 |
| GAN800 | ARM11 is | 13:48 |
| lardman | is the name of the hw | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | either way | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | i got their kernel and FW imaging scripts. | 13:49 |
| * RST38h can't quite understand why having a certain ARM chip makes such a big difference | 13:49 | |
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| Stskeeps | cos it'd be awesome if it was armv7 and that cheap? :P | 13:50 |
| lardman | s/arm7/arm11 | 13:50 |
| lardman | :) | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | this is the kind of tablet we can't rely on dpad interaction on | 13:51 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, and http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-smartq.png , i didn't paste in here i think :P | 13:53 |
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| GAN800 | lardman, ARM11 is armv6. There's no confusion there. | 13:53 |
| lardman | fair enough | 13:54 |
| lardman | too many numbers for my liking :) | 13:54 |
| GAN800 | thingamabobber | 13:55 |
| lardman | whatyamacallit | 13:56 |
| lardman | whatyamacallit version 11 that is | 13:56 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, how well does it run | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: good | 13:56 |
| lcuk | is the framebuffer nice | 13:56 |
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| GAN800 | Engadget had a story recently about some idiot campaigning for less 'technical' language. Dont use words like 'desktop', etc. | 13:57 |
| lcuk | nothing wrong with less technical, there are more people without computer knowledge than with :) | 13:58 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, there is when your definition of 'technical' is was off. | 13:58 |
| GAN800 | s/was/way/ | 13:58 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: lcuk, there is when your definition of 'technical' is way off. | 13:58 |
| lcuk | i know a lot of people who would be banging on the wooden worktop when you said click on the desktop | 13:59 |
| * lardman thinks desktop is reasonably straight-forward, in the same way as door-handle, etc | 13:59 | |
| GAN800 | For instance, what would you have mechanics call fuel injectors? Or sparkplugs? Those are technical terms by this guy's definition. | 13:59 |
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| lcuk | gan800 nothing wrong with technical people talking technical terms at each other | 14:00 |
| GAN800 | There's a reason for 'technical' language, and that's because specific names for specific things are easier than describing everything as a 'widget' or 'whatchamadoo' | 14:00 |
| lardman | secret car bits that live under the bonnet? | 14:00 |
| * lcuk doesnt know how a fuel injector works | 14:00 | |
| lardman | would lcuk like a lesson....? | 14:00 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, nor is there in the expectation that people's vocabularies should exceed 2000 words. | 14:01 |
| genewitch | it has a hole, and fuel goes through it | 14:01 |
| lcuk | heh nope, i have my comfort zone, john up the street fixes the car, i fix the comp[uters | 14:01 |
| lardman | :) | 14:01 |
| lcuk | the worst is telling a non computer person to right click on something, they always mishear you and think you said "right, click on ...." | 14:03 |
| lcuk | so you have to reword it as click with your right mouse button - yes the one on the right hand side | 14:03 |
| GAN800 | Must be a UK thing. | 14:04 |
| GAN800 | We never really say, 'Right, . . . ' over here in that particular context. | 14:05 |
| lardman | so that's why they always know I'm a Brit | 14:05 |
| lcuk | and thats why assumptions of acceptable language are not universal and keeping it as simple as possible is good | 14:06 |
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| GAN800 | There's a point at which 'simple' makes things vastly more complicated as you don't have anything specific enough to describe what you're talking about and end up having to describe things as 'widgets' and 'thingamabobs'. | 14:07 |
| GAN800 | This is the line that the guy crossed. | 14:08 |
| GAN800 | Ah, penguinbait, classy Planet post with classy comments. | 14:08 |
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| cosmo_ | heh, looks like my mer is broken | 14:15 |
| cosmo_ | it's in reboot loop | 14:15 |
| Stskeeps | we have reboot loops? jffs edition? | 14:16 |
| t_s_o | Stskeeps: another mer target? http://www.slashgear.com/zhongyi-s101-mid-gets-hands-on-0542811/ | 14:18 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Got Mer running on that PMP? =) | 14:18 |
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| radic | Stskeeps: is an proxy available for contentfiltering? | 14:20 |
| Knirch | can someone please set me straight if I'm wrong, but just read this ticket: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1045 which is marked as resolved, in freemantle, will freemantle eventually run on a n810? if not, how on earth can that ticket be considerd resolved? is there a FAQ regarding nokia made bugfixes where I can read up on policy instead? | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yup | 14:22 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: it's actually more of a MID | 14:23 |
| t_s_o | Knirch: lets just say its a hot topic on the forum ;) | 14:23 |
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| Knirch | t_s_o: right, so it's the same situation as it's been since 770? I thought that had changed :/ thanks | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | Knirch: on the other hand Mer is in good progress | 14:24 |
| Knirch | Stskeeps: aye | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | so the community will have a OS in their hands they control | 14:24 |
| t_s_o | Stskeeps: is the wifi power save working in mer? | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: yeah, it does now - (on n8x0?) | 14:24 |
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| usicow | At some stage I had to kill the media player, and since then it doesnt see any media thats on my removable SD card. When I open the media player it says 'refreshing library', but nothing ever happens.. and the CPU looks like its not doing anything at all. Does anyone know how I can fix this? | 14:30 |
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| Savago | Hello there, good morning. | 14:30 |
| Savago | I'm trying to compile some Qt code on fremantle sdk, but got some linker errors: http://pastebin.com/d55f98e40 | 14:31 |
| Savago | Anyone has an idea of what could be missing? | 14:31 |
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| aapo | hi, I'm porting game named openttd to maemo (diablo). It works but it has "famous" sdl-not-showing-window-in-list-issue and I cant fix it. What is current solution for it? | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | aapo: isn't it already ported? | 14:32 |
| * Stskeeps remembers playing it | 14:33 | |
| * glass remembers it having been ported in the 770 days | 14:33 | |
| lcuk | aapo, for a window to show in the list it has to be registered with osso/hildon i think | 14:34 |
| lcuk | otherwise you are an outcast and your handle falls by the wayside | 14:34 |
| lcuk | a shame really | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: !!! | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: less than 24 hours it took me | 14:35 |
| aapo | Stskeeps, I didn't found current release and compiled it. Very few patches needed | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: and i have the kernel and the GPL imager now | 14:35 |
| * RST38h hurrahs thrice | 14:35 | |
| Stskeeps | initially i thought it didn't work, but the problem was actually the backlight off ;p | 14:36 |
| lcuk | "let there be light" | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | sshed in and turned backlight on .. :) | 14:37 |
| lcuk | do you think god used ssh too? | 14:37 |
| Knirch | I bet he wrote a script in lisp | 14:37 |
| RST38h | God used makefiles. | 14:37 |
| RST38h | Namely, He used gmake, that's where g- came from. | 14:38 |
| GAN800 | Knirch, Nokia is helping backport the Fremantle stuff through Mer. | 14:38 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN800: doesn't apply to media player though | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | which was the example :) | 14:38 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Did you notice any problems with sysv-rc vs mini-rc? | 14:39 |
| Knirch | GAN800: ok, doesn't change anything though, one would expect software issues to be resolved in the device I own, with the firmware I bought | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: for the fremantle stuff? don't think so | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | they're switching to upstart anyway | 14:39 |
| Knirch | GAN800: I do like Mer, even more so due to stuff like this | 14:39 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Yeah, I guess that is what mini-rc is for? | 14:39 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: At the moment we aren't able to build any package, which uses nokia-binaries, because it wants to install mini-rc | 14:40 |
| X-Fade | Which in turn removes sysv-rc ;) | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: ah, i didn't look at mini-rc at all | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | as in | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | nokia-binaries | 14:40 |
| Knirch | GAN800: It's just depressing to see they _still_ do this, fix something for the upcoming devices and leave the old ones behind, regardless of support for community project, hack editions whatnot | 14:40 |
| lcuk | Knirch, which bug? | 14:41 |
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| Knirch | the one I used as an example to ask my question was this: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1045 | 14:41 |
| t_s_o | http://xkcd.com/224/ | 14:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Knirch, in this case, it's more justified than not. | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | "metalayer-crawler is a POS"? :P | 14:43 |
| lcuk | lol t_s_o | 14:43 |
| Knirch | GeneralAntilles: as an example | 14:43 |
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| usicow | what is the latest version of maemo os2008? | 14:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a weak deal, sure, but the reality is that Nokia can't deliver Fremantle with the experience they want to have on OMAP2 hardware. | 14:44 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Anyway, it is giving me a lot of pain right now ;) | 14:44 |
| Knirch | GeneralAntilles: that's an absurd argument | 14:44 |
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| Stskeeps | X-Fade: my gripe is mostly with scratchbox-isms currently.. i hope it will be a requirement for extras to not contain sb-isms, heh :P | 14:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Knirch, you wouldn't say that if you were familiar with the hardware and software involved. | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | (using maemian checks) | 14:44 |
| Knirch | what you're saying is that my current hardware is incapable of sorting | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | ah, so it's the "no more updates for diablo" | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | argument | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Knirch, no, I'm not talking about any specific bug. | 14:45 |
| * Knirch headdesks | 14:45 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm talking about Fremantle on OMAP2. | 14:45 |
| Knirch | I understand that freemantle won't run on my current device, I'm fine with that | 14:45 |
| Knirch | development can't stand still | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since Fremantle was menionted earlier, I assumed that was what this was about. | 14:45 |
| Knirch | but _bugfixes_ | 14:46 |
| Knirch | GeneralAntilles: yes, the bug is resolved since it's resolved in freemantle | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/freemantle/Fremantle/g | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, Media player sucks. Why would anybody want to use it over the dozen and one open source community alternatives? | 14:46 |
| Knirch | and yet again, I only used that as an example to ask my question which has been answered | 14:47 |
| lcuk | technically because its the simplest and most default and installed everywhere and generally "works" | 14:47 |
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| * RST38h is kinda concerned that of all the applications Nokia provides with its device, only MicroB works semidecently | 14:47 | |
| Knirch | that almost no more bug will be fixed in nokia branded software for my current device, just like it was when I only had the 770 :) | 14:47 |
| RST38h | s/applications/major end-user application | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, this is why I think people shouting for more bundled applications and bundled community applications are silly. | 14:48 |
| RST38h | General: I just think Nokia has to put its act together | 14:48 |
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| RST38h | The main usage cases (web,mail,music,video,photo) should sparkle | 14:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm thinking it'll come together with Fremantle onward. | 14:50 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: sparkle, crack, pop... ? | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, oh, and that's a stupid reason to hamstring yourself with shitty software. | 14:50 |
| timeless_mbp | s/pop/poop/ ? | 14:51 |
| lcuk | what is? minimal working stuff - when i need it it works - i still use shitty winamp here at home because it does what i need and doesnt try to get in my way | 14:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's actually a good thing that MicroB sucks so much, as its endless focus and virtual input bugs are the only things forcing me to use a real computer. | 14:51 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 14:51 |
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| ShadowJK | input bugs? What are those? I haven't found those yet :-) | 14:53 |
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| lcuk | timeless_mbp, did you forget to remove those #ifdef user==GAN things again | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, the fact that the finger keyboard just plain doesn't work. | 14:53 |
| ShadowJK | ah | 14:54 |
| ShadowJK | my N800's touchscreen is still not too crap to use the stylus keyboard with finger | 14:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm utterly amazed OS2008 made it out the door and THEN managed to ship updates for a year and virtual input is still so UTTERLY BROKEN. | 14:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the one thing that regularly makes me want to punt my tablet out a window. | 14:54 |
| lcuk | can we have a video whilst you do? | 14:55 |
| ShadowJK | and on my N810 I'd rather use the finger keyboard with fingers, but alas once the touchscreen goes insensitive it no longer distinguishes between stylus and fingertap.. | 14:55 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, yeah x11 picks up the stylus input using a threshhold - if i use native x11 mouse events i get broken strokes and missed input | 14:55 |
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| lcuk | but using the xsp pressure library it registers whole strokes | 14:56 |
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| lcuk | i keep pondering if the threshhold can be changed, but x11 is big and imposing | 14:57 |
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| Stskeeps | afternoon jeremiah_ | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | I'd want a different threshold for different parts of the screen... | 14:59 |
| lcuk | a few people have said that - basically a pair of glasses | 14:59 |
| lcuk | but for x11 and gtk you dont need that | 14:59 |
| lcuk | since pressure isnt natively required | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | hack up tslib? :P | 15:00 |
| lcuk | you simply need to know when you touched it | 15:00 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, the problem is how do you configure it - it would have to be a warp map as well | 15:00 |
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| Stskeeps | true | 15:00 |
| lcuk | and it would have to adjust with temp and stuff | 15:00 |
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| lcuk | granted, if it were a nasa project we would reprocess all input and throw it through a mask and out the other side | 15:01 |
| lcuk | (like hubble had done) | 15:01 |
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| ShadowJK | lcuk, well I'd want it to require the same pressure to register as click everywhere... I think it'd be much nicer to use if I had to stab it everywhere, instead of having this ring where literally just touching it registers as click, and a circle in the middle that requires serious stabbing to register as click, and the edges that require pressure somewhere in between. When I type on the onscreen keyboards, when I move from a letter on the sensitive area to a | 15:02 |
| ShadowJK | letter on the insensitive area, I start losing letters because what worked for the previous letters don't work for the other ones | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | http://www.tom-carden.co.uk/2005/07/28/grid-warp/ | 15:02 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, you really wouldnt notice - a touch is a touch | 15:03 |
| * Stskeeps ponders how much power budget that USB port has | 15:03 | |
| lcuk | if your screen is soooooooo bad its not registering anything at all unless punched no amount of hacking will work | 15:03 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, 8x0 or q?# | 15:03 |
| ShadowJK | Oh but what registers are click on the sensitive area, didn't produce any visible results (or randomly distorted results) when I tried liqbase as you suggested | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: q5 | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | it is shown with a gprs dongle so | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, hack the thresholds so that I need a punch everywhere :-) | 15:04 |
| ShadowJK | i.e. different threshold for different areas of screen | 15:04 |
| lcuk | but if the pressure isnt reporting being touched thats a different issue | 15:04 |
| lcuk | you just said its not reporting correctly from liqbase - in that case thats worse | 15:05 |
| lcuk | since im asking the xsp library directly for pressure readings | 15:05 |
| ShadowJK | I can touch the screen with stylus (lightly) on all of the screen without seeing anything drawn in liqbase | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: It is a resistive touchscreen. You need to apply some presure. | 15:06 |
| ShadowJK | if I apply minimal of pressure, there's a "halo" where stuff is drawn, basically a circular band that excludes the middle and the edges | 15:06 |
| ShadowJK | if I apple moderate pressure, it registers on the edges too | 15:07 |
| ShadowJK | if I apply lots of pressure, it registers on the entire screen | 15:07 |
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| ShadowJK | Now obviously the screen is reporting different pressure values for the same amount of physical pressure, depending on where on the screen I'm pressing... So I'd want a a way to calibrate either the pressure reporting, or the thresholds | 15:08 |
| lcuk | but if the screen is NOT returning any reported values for a particular location (using the pressure library) then how can changing the threshhold help | 15:09 |
| lcuk | that is a different issue to the one i am talking about | 15:09 |
| ShadowJK | then I don't know what issue you're talking about? | 15:09 |
| lcuk | im talking about getting broken lines and missing clicks when i DO click hard enough and there are values reported in pressure library, but x11 takes a hard threshhold and if you press over that it registers a mousedown | 15:10 |
| ShadowJK | huh, if you press too hard? | 15:11 |
| lcuk | i know how hard to press because i am writing all the time, i also know when i have compiled liqbase to include or exclude pressure support because when im writing it comes out broken using x11 alone and together when using pressure library | 15:12 |
| ShadowJK | hm, do you want it to not register mouseup until no pressure at all is registered? | 15:12 |
| lcuk | but anyway, enough typin for today | 15:12 |
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| * ShadowJK was talking about the thing not registering taps | 15:13 | |
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| ShadowJK | Anyway... what I would like is a tap-calibration... Provide calibration targets, say 16 x 8 of them or more... have me tap all of them with equal pressure (how to do this is left as an excercise to the reader ;), record the reported pressure, interpolate it over all of the screen, and use that as threshold for reporting mousedown | 15:15 |
| RST38h | And how do you intend to maintain the same pressure between taps? | 15:16 |
| ShadowJK | Oh temporarily tape a AAA battery to the stylus and just use fingers to guide it to stand on the targets, or something similar.. | 15:17 |
| ShadowJK | gravity | 15:17 |
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| RST38h | Do you expect this to be included into the paper user manual? =) | 15:18 |
| usicow | how can I tell if meta-crawler is working or not? | 15:18 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, they could include a plastic widget for it :) | 15:19 |
| RST38h | Include a single AA battery, then watch poor users as they try to insert it into the gadget | 15:20 |
| usicow | When I run meta-crawler in debug mode I get 'Segment fault' how could I get more information about why thats happening? | 15:20 |
| usicow | metalayer-crawler rather | 15:21 |
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| RST38h | make it drop a core then gdb meta-crawler core | 15:22 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, the obvious solution is to not have crapass touchscreen | 15:22 |
| ShadowJK | But failing that, I guess you have to fix the hardware in software somehow | 15:23 |
| RST38h | Shadow: Or, at least, do not bend it during installation | 15:23 |
| X-Fade | usicow: if you create a folder called core-dumps in the root of your mmc1, you should get a core dump. | 15:24 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder what Nokia Care would tell me about touchscreen sensitivity | 15:24 |
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| ShadowJK | would they tell me it's fine as long as a alkaline D battery attached to stylus registers as click? :-) | 15:24 |
| RST38h | They will tell you it is absolutely normal | 15:25 |
| RST38h | And if you ask why an application X does ot register pressure evenly, they will tell you thta they do not support 3rd party apps | 15:25 |
| ShadowJK | but it's noticeable in... Sketch! | 15:26 |
| RST38h | Is Sketch a bundled app? | 15:26 |
| ShadowJK | ya | 15:26 |
| ShadowJK | the stylus keyboard too | 15:26 |
| RST38h | This will make 'em think a little bit then come up with some other explanation | 15:26 |
| ShadowJK | they'll blame my operator | 15:27 |
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| RST38h | The last bubble in their diagram is probably "send your device for repairs" | 15:27 |
| ShadowJK | having attached an AAA battery to my stylus now with a cabletie... | 15:28 |
| ShadowJK | the upper edge of hte screen notices nothing :) | 15:28 |
| RST38h | Shadow: Just drop it from a bigger height | 15:29 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not dropping at all | 15:29 |
| ShadowJK | I should post pic of stylus with battery to ITT and claim it's a call-home feature of the N900 stylus, so you can find it when you lose it | 15:32 |
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| lcuk | if you genuinely want to find a reproducable testing mechanism, using a steel ball bearing of specified diameter and density and roll it around the screen. (like the game lbt mentioned last night) | 15:32 |
| RST38h | oh yesss | 15:33 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah I was thinking something liek that would be ideal | 15:33 |
| RST38h | in fact, there is no need for a specific diameter or density | 15:33 |
| RST38h | because you are looking for relative values | 15:33 |
| lcuk | course there is - if i used a pingpong ball vs a steelie it wont be the same | 15:34 |
| ShadowJK | well, with stylus and AAA I can paint approx 75% of the screen :) | 15:34 |
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| RST38h | yea, you want it to be heavy enough | 15:34 |
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| usicow | is there a way to scan and correct any corruption on an SD card in the N810? | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | any corruption? | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | there's a way to scan sd corruptions for certain corruptions | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | but we can't guarantee that we would understand any random corruption | 15:52 |
| usicow | fair enough.. :) | 15:52 |
| timeless_mbp | it's available from file manager | 15:53 |
| usicow | thanks | 15:53 |
| timeless_mbp | you should of course be running the latest os release | 15:53 |
| usicow | yep | 15:53 |
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| ShadowJK | hm... | 16:13 |
| ShadowJK | looks like tslib's linear module has stuff for pressure scaling | 16:13 |
| ShadowJK | but no way to set it :) | 16:13 |
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| RST38h | If I rmemeber correctly, the device returns an 8bit pressure reding | 16:19 |
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| RST38h | However you scale it, it is still a faulty 8bit pressure reading | 16:19 |
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| * man_in_ltop waves | 16:44 | |
| man_in_ltop | so i've been playing nethack on maemo | 16:44 |
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| man_in_ltop | it's got some annoying quirks :D | 16:45 |
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| lopz | hola | 16:54 |
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| man_in_ltop | HOLLAR | 17:04 |
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| man_in_ltop | Oooh, i remember what's i wanted | 17:08 |
| man_in_ltop | dictionary for maemo :D | 17:09 |
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| man_in_ltop | i see dict client, but i want something stored locally :) | 17:09 |
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| lardman | stardict or something like that | 17:13 |
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| lardman | there are a couple of them around, or there were anyway | 17:13 |
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| woglinde | hi lardman | 17:14 |
| lardman | hey woglinde | 17:14 |
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| Macer | hm | 17:35 |
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| Macer | trying to install some working printer drivers for this stupid brother laserprinter | 17:35 |
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| man_in_ltop | anyone tried nethack on maemo? :) | 17:39 |
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| RST38h | "For those a little delicate, we have tried them, and although they be a little sandy, they are delicious." | 17:40 |
| RST38h | Guess (without Google) what it was about | 17:40 |
| man_in_ltop | something that you normally see in porn? | 17:41 |
| RST38h | mmm, no, not really | 17:41 |
| RST38h | would be too simple | 17:41 |
| man_in_ltop | iphone | 17:41 |
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| RST38h | no. | 17:41 |
| RST38h | no gadget porn either. | 17:41 |
| man_in_ltop | am i warmer? | 17:41 |
| Macer | wtf | 17:44 |
| Macer | now the gnome printing utility just disappeared | 17:44 |
| Macer | because apt-get removed it for i can't even understand what reason | 17:44 |
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| RST38h | man: not at all | 17:45 |
| RST38h | Any more takers? | 17:45 |
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| RST38h | Ok, the answer: http://www.anarchistnews.org/?q=node/7202 | 17:47 |
| andre__ | Macer: what is a "gnome printing utility"? print dialogs, or talking about a specific package? | 17:48 |
| Macer | the little printing app that pops up under administration | 17:49 |
| Macer | for some reason apt-get removed it and i don't know what pkg it is a part of | 17:49 |
| Macer | i thnk i found it | 17:51 |
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| Macer | that made no sense | 17:51 |
| Macer | i have no idea why apt-get would remove something like that when it is in use | 17:51 |
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| Macer | well.. got it working | 17:54 |
| Macer | that was a bigger pain than i thought it would be :) | 17:54 |
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| GAN800 | andre__, you want to start a pool on when we'll get an answer on 3602? :P | 18:23 |
| jeremiah_ | GAN800: I'm in. 10 Euros says not until June. | 18:24 |
| andre__ | heh | 18:24 |
| jeremiah_ | Oops. Should have read the whole thread. | 18:24 |
| jeremiah_ | I take it back. | 18:25 |
| jeremiah_ | That might never get answered. | 18:25 |
| andre__ | i should fly to helsinki, get a list of people that don't answer, and block their doors until i get one. ;-) | 18:25 |
| andre__ | GAN800, got some maemo.org bugzilla template file somewhere? | 18:26 |
| GAN800 | andre__, got a local copy of the svn I've been poking at. | 18:26 |
| andre__ | oh nice | 18:26 |
| andre__ | (sorry for responding so late) | 18:26 |
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| GAN800 | I think I might need to reclone and start over, though. | 18:26 |
| andre__ | and? works(tm)? :) | 18:26 |
| andre__ | uh | 18:26 |
| GAN800 | Dunno, got nothing to test it with. | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | I moved the footer stuff into the sidebar | 18:27 |
| andre__ | but can you send me a patch? | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | Which I don't think will work. | 18:27 |
| andre__ | hmm, that might be... confusing | 18:27 |
| ShadowJK | andre__, how about recruiting someone in here to deliver a copy of the question, constructed by cutting out letters from magazines and gluing to a sheet of paper, to their mailboxes? | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | Um, yeah, probably tomorrow | 18:27 |
| andre__ | GAN800, well, options stuff isn't needed that often IMO (at least not for average users), hence bottom is probably preferable | 18:28 |
| GAN800 | Any chance of testing it somewhere or do I need to setup a local install? | 18:28 |
| andre__ | we should test it on testzilla IMO | 18:28 |
| andre__ | ShadowJK, now that sounds like a plan! :) | 18:28 |
| GAN800 | I'll work on it tonight and toss you a patch tomorrow. | 18:29 |
| jeremiah_ | There are loads and loads of packages that do not have the right maintainer in maemo. | 18:29 |
| GAN800 | I like the ones with Ubuntu mailing lists as maintainers. | 18:29 |
| jeremiah_ | If we are going to start rejecting or demoting packages, we need to have the right email address of whomever uploaded the package. | 18:29 |
| jeremiah_ | GAN800: lol | 18:29 |
| andre__ | heh | 18:29 |
| jeremiah_ | I haven't seen that yet. :) | 18:29 |
| GAN800 | ntp-docs | 18:30 |
| jeremiah_ | I wonder if we can co-ordinate the garage email address with uploading a package? | 18:30 |
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| jeremiah_ | And spit out an error message if they don't match? | 18:31 |
| GAN800 | I wish we could get the goddamn categories out the door so we can start harassing maintainers | 18:31 |
| GAN800 | So far all we've freaking gotten from Nokia for Mer and continued Diablo support is a lot of hot air. | 18:32 |
| jeremiah_ | GAN800: Yeah, that is a good think too. | 18:32 |
| jeremiah_ | thing | 18:32 |
| jeremiah_ | Sorry, what I am trying to say is I agree with you. | 18:33 |
| jeremiah_ | fingers so cold | 18:33 |
| ShadowJK | need more hot air | 18:33 |
| jeremiah_ | BTW, this is a little weird, but works: http://test.maemo.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi | 18:33 |
| GAN800 | Can't even get them to look at work-free website patches. | 18:33 |
| * GAN800 sighs | 18:33 | |
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| jeremiah_ | I need to strip the icons somehow, but otherwise. | 18:33 |
| GAN800 | I miss the maemo applications wiki page. | 18:34 |
| jeremiah_ | Try 'chrpath' for example | 18:34 |
| GAN800 | The Days Before Extras | 18:34 |
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| torkiano | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1282 :( | 18:42 |
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| torkiano | is there a aptitude port for maemo? | 18:43 |
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| jeremiah_ | torkiano: I haven't seen one. | 18:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | andre__: ping | 18:45 |
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| andre__ | timeless_mbp, pong | 18:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | so, about my notes bug | 18:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | can you please hit them with a cluebat | 18:46 |
| timeless_mbp | a quick test shows that you don't "always" get that error message | 18:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | and any sane person would tell you that you can't usefully give that error message | 18:47 |
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| andre__ | please hit them yourself. see the int ref in the alias field... | 18:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah, i looked | 18:47 |
| andre__ | it's really easier. you have access to test that stuff | 18:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm now more depressed than i was before | 18:47 |
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| andre__ | even if you hate discussing it directly with them ;-)) | 18:47 |
| timeless_mbp | you can see why! | 18:47 |
| andre__ | yeah. i've seen enough such cases. | 18:47 |
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| qgil | GeneralAntilles: hi, do you remember whether there is a high-res maemo.org logo somewhere in maemo.org? | 19:08 |
| qgil | ah http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/logos/ | 19:09 |
| GAN800 | Still haven't managed to round up an svg of the favicon. . . . | 19:09 |
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| iamlindoro | Hi Guys, having some trouble with maemo/n810 and hoping it might be a common issue-- Attempting to use the n810 in USB host mode to serve as the master for a device my company is building-- plug in the device, issue lsusb (and see expected results), and the system hangs within a few seconds, then resets itself. Thinking it might be power related, but have tried the same through a powered hub and the problem persists-- Our device | 19:56 |
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| Stskeeps | and i presume you did enable usb host, after rmmod g_file_storage? | 19:58 |
| iamlindoro | Did the former, had not tried the latter | 19:58 |
| iamlindoro | Can give that a shot if you think it might help | 19:59 |
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| Stskeeps | give it a try :) | 19:59 |
| iamlindoro | sure, thanks, will do that right now | 19:59 |
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| iamlindoro | Hmm, I seem to lose USB entirely when I rmmod g_file_storage | 20:08 |
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| tank-man | ive heard someone else with the same rebooting issue with a usb keyboard, but he wasnt using the stock kernel | 20:37 |
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| iamlindoro | tank-man: Fancy seeing you here-- All stock here, including repositories-- only thing added has been openssh-server and usbcontrol | 20:43 |
| iamlindoro | stock otherwise | 20:43 |
| tank-man | anything interesting from "dmesg" before the reboot? | 20:46 |
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| iamlindoro | not that I've managed to intercept, I have noticed that I can extend survival a little longer by not running lsusb (which fairly immediately causes it) but it ultimately hangs and restarts no matter what | 20:48 |
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| mib_ijm4o0 | test | 20:57 |
| timeless_mbp | fail | 20:58 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | bot! | 21:08 |
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| Stskeeps | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/img-1-mq.jpg <- N800 & smartq5 :P | 21:45 |
| RST38h | If they mate, what will you call the offpsring? | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | n805? | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:46 |
| RST38h | ehhh | 21:46 |
| RST38h | the chinese one does look cool, better than n800 | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | the sd slot is a bitch though | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | i often have to pull the sd out, and clicking it isn't easy | 21:47 |
| RST38h | well, n810 sd slot also isn't fun | 21:47 |
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| Stskeeps | beyond that it's excellent for touch | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | and actually looks better than an iphone, heh | 21:52 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, lower dpi then | 21:55 |
| lcuk | (v nice tho) | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: same size screen | 21:55 |
| lcuk | ahh optical illusion | 21:56 |
| RST38h | the screen looks bigger than in n8x0 | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | it's perspective | 21:56 |
| lcuk | it wasnt just that, its size of the bezel | 21:56 |
| RST38h | yep | 21:57 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, WHERES THE D-PAD? | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: yeah, exactly | 21:58 |
| lcuk | since that is the most common thing ppl scream at new tech | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | there's 3 buttons on top but no dpad. | 21:58 |
| lcuk | no camera either by the looks | 21:59 |
| lcuk | its a digital photo frame :) | 21:59 |
| RST38h | wait until you get a chance to ask this question about n9x0 | 21:59 |
| lcuk | which is cool | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i'm inclined to think fremantle doesn't need a dpad | 21:59 |
| * lcuk can see these devices doing very well for what i have in mind | 21:59 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: with wifi and bluetooth and usb host/otg/gadget.. and speaker and microphone | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | .. and tv out it seems | 22:00 |
| lcuk | nice | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | and 2000mAh battery | 22:00 |
| RST38h | Sts: Fremantle may not but I do | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | the buttons on top are 770 like | 22:00 |
| RST38h | Sts: how is battery life on smartq | 22:00 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: ran it over 4 hours yesterday but i would like to move away from my rather electrically insecure plug convertor at the moment | 22:01 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: ubuntu lxde isn't exactly power saving | 22:04 |
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| RST38h | Sts: Still no hildon desktop there? | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: what, huh? :P | 22:05 |
| RST38h | just asking =) | 22:05 |
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| Stskeeps | i got the device about 26 hours ago :P | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | yes, i have hildon desktop | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | look at the pic :) | 22:05 |
| RST38h | so why lxde? | 22:06 |
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| Stskeeps | lxde was their own setup | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | which is what i tested with | 22:06 |
| RST38h | ah, I am more interested in how it fares under mer | 22:06 |
| RST38h | which is supposed to be very power saving | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | yeah - i will look forward that too | 22:06 |
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| Stskeeps | as well as seeing if wifi power saving works | 22:07 |
| johnxlzaurus | RST38h, if you want to be a mer developer we might be able to swing you a discount code for the smartq ... | 22:08 |
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| Stskeeps | funny fact: it says ccc fcc and ce | 22:10 |
| johnxlzaurus | I think in some cases you can pay a company to get all the testing done for you at once | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | well if it's based on a development board, hm :P | 22:11 |
| johnxlzaurus | it might not cost that much more to get ce and fcc done at the same time ... | 22:11 |
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| RST38h | johnx: I have nothign against another gadget | 22:11 |
| RST38h | johnx: but no time either =( | 22:12 |
| johnxlzaurus | well even if you just want to buy one to port emus too, it isnt like they are that expensive | 22:13 |
| johnxlzaurus | also excuse the punctuation as I need to do a bit of work on this keymap it seems | 22:13 |
| RST38h | The review says $132 in China | 22:14 |
| RST38h | not a lot of money indeed | 22:14 |
| RST38h | "eBay Fakes Devalue the Craft of Tomb Robbing" <=== hehehe | 22:15 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, have you been and gloated in the pandora thread yet? | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: nah | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | no need to make enemies | 22:19 |
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| RST38h | ah, it is more like beating zombies than making enemies | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | good one :) | 22:19 |
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| johnx | heh, I think most of the pandora people left that thread long ago :) | 22:25 |
| RST38h | enjoy: http://latemag.com/district-9-trailer | 22:25 |
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| zakkm | anyone know why the advanced battery statusbar icon, the battery % only goes up to like 93%? | 22:26 |
| lcuk | really, mine goes all the way to 11 | 22:26 |
| johnx | they use a different algorithm for determining when the battery is "full" than the Nokia battery applet | 22:27 |
| johnx | different batteries charge different amounts | 22:27 |
| zakkm | yeah but it stops at 93%, i find that odd ;p | 22:27 |
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| zakkm | could the battery be replaced with a more long lasting one? | 22:27 |
| locutus | yes | 22:27 |
| locutus | i have one | 22:27 |
| zakkm | how much | 22:27 |
| zakkm | mah ? | 22:27 |
| locutus | but you have to use a different bulging backplate | 22:28 |
| lcuk | i have mine attached to a big battery, but the lead is a tad short | 22:28 |
| locutus | so the n810 becomes less nice to handhold | 22:28 |
| RST38h | yes but bigger capacity batteries are bigger | 22:28 |
| locutus | so i never use it | 22:28 |
| zakkm | none same size, but more capacity? | 22:28 |
| locutus | because it wont easilly fit in my trouser pockets then | 22:28 |
| zakkm | condensed | 22:28 |
| lcuk | locutus, you got a mugen? | 22:28 |
| locutus | lcuk: dunno | 22:28 |
| locutus | lcuk: i was given this set as a present | 22:28 |
| lcuk | cool | 22:28 |
| locutus | yeah | 22:28 |
| locutus | mugen | 22:28 |
| lcuk | zakkm, whats wrong with battery life, barring the 93% | 22:29 |
| zakkm | i just find it odd being fully charged and it saying its at 93% :P | 22:29 |
| locutus | zakkm: it could btw be that your battery just doesnt charge to 100% full anymore | 22:29 |
| locutus | zakkm: which can happen with age | 22:29 |
| lcuk | locutus, there is a hardware hacker who makes addins which use the extra space that battery holds | 22:29 |
| lcuk | hes got all sorts of goodies in mind | 22:29 |
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| locutus | zakkm: mugen 3600mAh yes | 22:29 |
| locutus | lcuk: yeah, i have one which adds a full sized SD slot there | 22:29 |
| locutus | lcuk: i see no real use for it, as i just use a MicroSD+MiniSD adapter | 22:29 |
| zakkm | would that 3600mah mugen fit perfectly? | 22:30 |
| lcuk | zakkm, did you not listen - he has a fat extended back cover | 22:30 |
| lcuk | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23205 | 22:30 |
| lcuk | photos here | 22:30 |
| locutus | that 3600mAh one fits only with a fat cover | 22:30 |
| zakkm | oh wow | 22:31 |
| zakkm | 32gb sdhc ;o | 22:31 |
| lcuk | i think hes making a kitchensink addon next | 22:31 |
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| zakkm | what do 770's go for these days? | 22:33 |
| lcuk | original retail * 10 i think | 22:34 |
| lcuk | they are almost collectables :D | 22:34 |
| zakkm | dang | 22:34 |
| lcuk | ebay will tell you - its not expensive i dont think | 22:35 |
| zakkm | i was thinking of selling my n800 and buy a 770 .. | 22:35 |
| zakkm | and end up with some nice cash ;p | 22:35 |
| lcuk | but why would you want a 770? | 22:35 |
| lcuk | apart from hard cover | 22:35 |
| lcuk | and cool design | 22:35 |
| lcuk | and retro chic | 22:35 |
| locutus | n770 looks crappy | 22:35 |
| zakkm | between that or a smartq 5 i think | 22:35 |
| zakkm | i dont like the way the n800 looks | 22:35 |
| zakkm | and im using it less and less | 22:36 |
| johnx | trading down from an n800 to a 770 would kinda suck | 22:36 |
| lcuk | what are you using instead | 22:36 |
| * RST38h suggests a microVAX for that retro chic feeling | 22:36 | |
| zakkm | i used to have a 770, bought it on ebay for $85, but then it wsod'd and i got screwed | 22:36 |
| zakkm | like a month later | 22:36 |
| locutus | RST38h: why a -micro- VAX? | 22:36 |
| johnx | they're all gonna WSOD one day | 22:36 |
| locutus | RST38h: why not go all out and get a VAX780 ? ;-) | 22:36 |
| lcuk | anyone on twitter? | 22:38 |
| lcuk | mines lookin empty | 22:38 |
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| qgil | hi there | 22:49 |
| qgil | I'm looking for fast feedback about this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend | 22:49 |
| qgil | how can it serve better the purpose of bringing more developers to Copenhagen at the end of this month? | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Flash! | 22:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Free hats! | 22:50 |
| lbt | agenda ? | 22:51 |
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| zakkm | free hats.. damn i should of got invited :D | 22:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody needs to poke Tim about getting the shirts together | 22:51 |
| lbt | 2 hrs hacking code, lots of free coffee | 22:51 |
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| lbt | 4 hrs hacking code, lots of free coffee | 22:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qgil, got a nice logo for the event you could stick on the top? | 22:51 |
| qgil | GeneralAntilles: like http://www.ounae.com/wp-content/uploads//2008/03/vintage-flash-camera-clock.jpg | 22:51 |
| VDVsx | more promotion, especially at DK University's | 22:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | qgil, combined with hypnosis that might work | 22:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | but I was thinking the Adobe sort. :P | 22:52 |
| qgil | GeneralAntilles: not hats, but free entrance, lunch and even some beers | 22:52 |
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| lbt | promise to show off pre-production prototypes.... | 22:52 |
| florian | re | 22:52 |
| lbt | yeah, some "re" too | 22:52 |
| qgil | logo for the vent, the Mozilla guys are onto something, yes | 22:53 |
| * lbt assumes "re" is Danish coffee | 22:53 | |
| lbt | seriously - do people know what's actually happening? | 22:53 |
| qgil | local promotion yes, I have failed in my part and the Mozilla office located in the very same campus haven't been that active either. Noted. With urgency. | 22:54 |
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| lbt | I'm kinda expecting to talk, see lots of laptops compiling code, new ideas being sketched out on whiteboards... | 22:54 |
| lbt | design reviews | 22:54 |
| lbt | that kind of thing | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | yeah - facilities would be good, what can we get of equipment, will we be sitting sweating at tables in the big hall or where would we be or something :) | 22:55 |
| qgil | lbt: believe it or not I'm working hard to get some kind of development boards so people can see their apps in real action - but can't promise at this point | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | whiteboards, HDMI/DVI screens, etc | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | so people can start preparing demos | 22:55 |
| lbt | heh - that's a hook to attract attention | 22:55 |
| * zakkm wants a free maemo hat :) | 22:55 | |
| lbt | but actually saying "talk, lots of laptops compiling code, new ideas being sketched out on whiteboards..." | 22:55 |
| lbt | intense/creative design atmosphere | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | or even simple stuff about if there'll be a coffee machine ;p | 22:56 |
| qgil | Stskeeps & lbt , you mean a schedule (if only a skeleton) where you can visualize what will be there | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | schedule sketch might also help so people can start proposing | 22:56 |
| lbt | yes... and I don't know what a "hackfest" really is | 22:56 |
| lbt | I don't know whether to do a powerpoint show on OBS | 22:57 |
| lbt | or a screencast | 22:57 |
| lbt | or just have an example to walk through on a big projector | 22:57 |
| qgil | lbt: yes, you can | 22:57 |
| qgil | ok, I'll start working on a skleton right now | 22:57 |
| lbt | heh - pick one eh? | 22:57 |
| lcuk | do we need a pre-meeting meeting to arrange some of the specifics | 22:58 |
| qgil | also the Mozilla guys found the "official" hotel and booked 40 double rooms, that would help making things concrete as well :) | 22:58 |
| lcuk | qgil, have you heard whether vlads clearance is ok | 22:58 |
| qgil | also, we have sponsored about a bunch of developers, but also nobody knowsn | 22:58 |
| lbt | there will be people who have lots of knowledge... but I assume there will be "walk in" people too? | 22:58 |
| qgil | and nobody knows we still have budget to sponsor some more good developers | 22:58 |
| lbt | what are they doing ? | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: another idea since much of it is tablet-centered - there's a small bunch of Nokians coming - what areas that they are in might be good for people to know | 22:58 |
| lbt | any Qt people? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | such as, if there's a hildon expert coming or clutter, that'd be great to know | 22:59 |
| lbt | paff gtk ... | 22:59 |
| lcuk | qgil, i would like to have a pow-wow with kot and crash and a couple of others - it might have been mentioned | 22:59 |
| qgil | lcuk, do we really need a meeting (may be), or is it about action in the wiki + mailing list + forum, planet... | 22:59 |
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| * lcuk was joking | 22:59 | |
| lbt | ad-hoc irc meeting may be an idea | 23:00 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: the nokians coming basically belong to development platform and browser | 23:00 |
| lcuk | we already had ours - i am eager to speak with vlad and sampo | 23:00 |
| qgil | since the rest are tied to their Fremantle desks with a thick iron chain | 23:00 |
| lcuk | do you know if hendrik is coming | 23:00 |
| VDVsx | VERY important: don't forget the (free) snacks & coffee :P it's a very important part in this kind of events | 23:01 |
| qgil | lbt: qt people, that's a good point | 23:01 |
| lbt | Antonio is busy :( | 23:01 |
| qgil | I expect Kate and Antonio to b there at least, will ask the official post-trolls as well | 23:01 |
| qgil | VDVsx: eating and drinking (with moderation) shouldn't b a problem, even for free | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | heh, the cantina at ITU is interesting - you get charged per kg :> | 23:02 |
| lbt | If we can get an idea of who is presenting what and in what style | 23:02 |
| VDVsx | qgil, .) | 23:02 |
| lbt | then we can plan around it... | 23:02 |
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| qgil | ok lbt: schedule skeleton coming tonight | 23:03 |
| lbt | + scale... presentation to 50 people != 5 people around a screen | 23:03 |
| lcuk | lbt, i learnt how to present to a large audience :) just do it to one person | 23:03 |
| * lbt volunteers something on OBS (obviously) | 23:03 | |
| lcuk | quim, it was nokia that arranged the projector for the summit (overhead one) can it be there again? | 23:04 |
| lbt | lcuk ... style + content differ with scale | 23:04 |
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| VDVsx | and... please, please record some of the talks :) | 23:04 |
| qgil | there are different spaces: auditorium (150 people) + 1 Mozilla room + 1 maemo.org room + 1 Maemo/Nokia room (40 seats each) | 23:04 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, that means we should contact jamie and see if hes available | 23:04 |
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| qgil | lcuk projectors are not a problem in the ITU! | 23:05 |
| lcuk | are star fleet uniforms supplied or do we need to bring our own? | 23:05 |
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| lbt | you're ET, not starfleet | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: ah - and we'd be mostly in the mozilla/maemo/maemo-nokia rooms? | 23:05 |
| lcuk | yes yes | 23:05 |
| * Stskeeps isn't entirely sure how it'd look yet :) | 23:06 | |
| VDVsx | lcuk, he is in the attending list, I think | 23:06 |
| zakkm | how many people are expected to come? | 23:06 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: ah no, tactually the default place is the hall, with plenty of tables and chairs to sit and hack | 23:06 |
| lcuk | good VDVsx ill send him a mail and make sure | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: fantastic :) | 23:06 |
| qgil | those rooms are for BOFs, team discussions and other loud activities :) | 23:06 |
| * Stskeeps misses old demo scene parties | 23:06 | |
| * zakkm sees stskeeps running around the main room .. MER HAS ___!!!!!!! | 23:06 | |
| lcuk | do we have a list of current participants | 23:06 |
| qgil | The Maemo/Nokia room could be to offer specific support to SDK users | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: .. yeah, that pretty much qualifies how insane i am :) | 23:07 |
| lbt | spare international power plug adaptors | 23:07 |
| qgil | lcuk the list of confirmed participants is in the wiki page | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: good point | 23:07 |
| lcuk | gotcha - was hunting for ages | 23:07 |
| lbt | various private wifi routers? | 23:07 |
| qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend/Participants - forgot that I created a separate page | 23:07 |
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| zakkm | nobody from canada :P | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i'll take my fonera along, :P | 23:08 |
| lbt | spare N800 batteries | 23:08 |
| * Stskeeps ponders idly how heavy his backpack will be. | 23:08 | |
| qgil | international power plug adapters? I never get them when flying to UK/US :) | 23:08 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, its just down the road for you | 23:09 |
| * johnx needs to get a line on a laptop to borrow O_o; | 23:09 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: n800 and bluetooth keyboard, that's all you need | 23:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:09 |
| lbt | extra long vga cables | 23:09 |
| zakkm | is there seriously going to be free maemo hats? | 23:09 |
| qgil | perhaps maemo.org hats if you convince the council ;) | 23:10 |
| johnx | I think better with multiple windows up at once. I guess I can just array the zaurus, wii+tv and n800 out in front of me... | 23:10 |
| lcuk | oh no Stskeeps that bluetooth keyboard caused liqbase death! | 23:10 |
| lbt | zakkm: we're all shaving our heads and having Mer tatoos | 23:10 |
| zakkm | i want a maemo.org hat to put up in my room :D | 23:10 |
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| qgil | alright, I'll go to edit that wiki page right now | 23:10 |
| qgil | thanks for the braindrop! | 23:10 |
| lbt | seperate content | 23:11 |
| lcuk | yw :) | 23:11 |
| lbt | from practicals | 23:11 |
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| lcuk | ive just mailed jamie | 23:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, Tim should be working on shirts. | 23:13 |
| zakkm | if shipping isnt much, and i paid shipping, would someone mail me one? :D | 23:14 |
| lcuk | qgil, on the participants thing im not starred for sponsorship (*) am i getting there under my own steam or sharing a suitcase with some others? | 23:14 |
| lbt | lcuk, I persuaded them to send me first class.... you're swimming. | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | the 24 hour boat is a blast | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:15 |
| * lcuk mutters something about bloody vikings ;) | 23:15 | |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, how far is it for ou travelling | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: 3h30m or so | 23:18 |
| qgil | lcuk you need to apply for sponsorship as said in the web | 23:18 |
| qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend/Participants updated | 23:18 |
| qgil | 45 participants confirmed now | 23:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, these are likely to be specific to this meetup. | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, plan is to have a real swag store at some point. | 23:22 |
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| radic | can someone agree that the browser is slightly unstable? | 23:22 |
| lcuk | hmm i am sure i already filled that in once, nm ive applied again | 23:22 |
| lcuk | radic, yeah internet explorer is a pain in the ass | 23:22 |
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| lcuk | it crashes all the time | 23:22 |
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| radic | lcuk: i mean that on my n800 | 23:23 |
| lcuk | i dunno it always seemed fine with me - but i dont use it so often | 23:23 |
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| qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Accommodation updated | 23:47 |
| qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend/Accommodation created | 23:47 |
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| zakkm | 75eur per night is alott :P | 23:47 |
| qgil | less if you share | 23:47 |
| zakkm | that sleep in heaven looks better | 23:48 |
| zakkm | 17.47 eur, free wifi, locker and such | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | People just love to have forums for their little pet projects. . . . | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: in terms of comfort, cabinn is nicer :P | 23:48 |
| zakkm | your barely be there though | 23:48 |
| zakkm | except sleep | 23:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | If people would move DOCUMENTATION to the wiki nobody would have to dig around in subforums to find stuff. | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, shared room planning | 23:50 |
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| * Stskeeps marks himself availiable for a roommate :P | 23:50 | |
| zakkm | i call shared room with STSKEEPS! :D | 23:50 |
| lbt | quim... do you snore | 23:50 |
| qgil | lbt: only at night | 23:50 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, perfect hotel spot | 23:51 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | oh, the MicroB browser is proprietary | 23:51 |
| * suihkulokki wonders if it is a great idea to have the party *before* hacking event :P | 23:51 | |
| zakkm | i can see it now, everyone in their rooms on their nokia :) | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | right next to metro | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: i'm pondering to share with a jetlagged USian or something :P | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | CutMeOwnThroat, the UI is closed, MicroB is actually the engine, which is Gecko-based and open. | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | CutMeOwnThroat, the UI will be open in Fremantle. | 23:52 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | Fremantle? | 23:52 |
| johnx | I think rm_you and I will probably end up sharing a room | 23:52 |
| * johnx changes the wiki | 23:52 | |
| zakkm | have you guys ever seen eachother in person before? | 23:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~fremantle | 23:53 |
| johnx | zakkm, we went to the same highschool :) | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: nop | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | (at least i didn't) | 23:53 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | google says it's a town :) | 23:53 |
| johnx | zakkm, rm_you and I, I mean :) | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle | 23:53 |
| lcuk | shame zach cant make it | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo 5 | 23:53 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | ok | 23:53 |
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| zakkm | i want a tshirt :( | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, go triage some bugs. That's how I got mine. ;) | 23:54 |
| zakkm | you got a maemo tshirt? | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, one of the real maemo (lowercase m) ones, too. ;) | 23:55 |
| zakkm | lucky | 23:55 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: do you mind moving the content of http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Mer to an own page, I want to convert those Focus areas in a simple bullet list with links, thanks! | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: yep - sec | 23:56 |
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| CutMeOwnThroat | well, tempting to see how those things do on a x86 desktop... guess I'll run matchbox-window-manager at sometime :) | 23:57 |
| CutMeOwnThroat | although single-window is probably not so great there | 23:58 |
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| crashanddie | Hi qgil o/ | 23:59 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: edited, feel free to edit as needed | 23:59 |
| crashanddie | how's it going in crazy Finland? | 23:59 |
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