IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-05-06

qgilStskeeps: thanks!00:01
qgildear lazyweb, wher can I find the list of Maemo projects approved for GSOC?00:01
qgilhi crashanddie00:02
lcuk#maemo :: faster than google00:02
GeneralAntilleslcuk, #maemo - usually just a proxy for Google. :P00:02
lcukindeed, you even act as the spell checker :D00:03
crashanddieno, that's just GA's usual pedantic self00:03
mikkov_google answered with thi00:04
lcukanyway, more drugs needed, bbl00:04
GeneralAntillesWithout pedantic people like me, there'd just be anarchy. :P00:04
crashanddielol, how to detect if someone has no idea what so ever who you are: They reply to "hi", but don't answer the "how are you" question :)00:04
GeneralAntillesDrove past a schoolzone today and a few of the students were wearing masks.00:04
GeneralAntillesSwine flu insanity.00:04
crashanddieyou're going to die00:04
crashanddieThat's it, your life's over00:05
crashanddieI hope you enjoyed the ride :)00:05
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GeneralAntillesAs soon as I find out I'm sick I'm flying over there to cough on you.00:05
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crashanddieI have 3 boxes of tamiflu :P00:05
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crashanddieI take pre-emptive shots just to be sure00:05
GeneralAntillesBut it's swine flu!00:06
zakkmGeneralAntilles: where in the world you live?00:06
GeneralAntilleszakkm, hostmask.00:06
GeneralAntilleszakkm, figure it out yet?00:08
zakkmwhere you live?00:09
GeneralAntilles /whois GeneralAntilles00:09
crashanddiewho set us up the bomb!00:09
zakkmdidnt think of that00:09
GeneralAntillesYou're learning something new today. :P00:09
zakkmnoo i know host address's its just i didnt think of checking00:09
zakkmi just saw your story and thinking where you live00:09
zakkmyeahh im tired :D00:09
crashanddieplease use the apostrophes in the right places00:10
crashanddiedidn't takes one, addresses doesn't ;)00:10
radicStskeeps: for what is the browserd required?00:10
crashanddieradic, the interwebs :)00:10
GeneralAntillesand I'm the pedantic one00:11
radiccrashanddie: and what can i do if it crashed?00:11
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qgil created00:18
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zakkmMain Hall equipped with tables, chairs and power chords00:18
zakkmqgil: what are power chords?00:18
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Stskeepscords :P00:18
* Stskeeps heads to bed00:19
zakkmwhere developers hang around, chat and hack. (free!)  <--- since when did you pay to hangout, chat or hack ?00:19
Stskeepszakkm: linux cafe?00:19
zakkmyou dont have to buy anything00:19
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zakkmand thats for food00:20
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qgilzakkm: actually we are going to place a guy like this one in each table:
zakkmqgil: starting to sound like a fun event00:23
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qgilzakkm: "(free!)" is after the dot - anyway you native English speakers can edit the page at will (and the rest of humans too)00:24
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zakkmenglish isnt your first language? cool00:24
qgilzakkm: there are two languages in the row before English for m00:25
zakkmqgil: thats awesome, i can only speak english00:25
zakkmwhich sucks cause i want to go into real estate, and i realize that fact will hurt00:26
luke-jrqgil: ö hi!00:26
johnxzakkm, eh, plenty of time to learn other languages. You can pick them up quick with a little immersion to help you00:26
qgilfor instance PERL, mind you00:27
zakkmmeant speaking languages :P00:27
luke-jr♡ Perl00:27
zakkmjohnx: i suppose so, takes a long time to learn a language though00:27
qgilzakkm: for some it takes only a (good) girl/boy/friend00:28
* zakkm is so glad he failed programming in school :P00:28
qgilin my case, a job definitely helps00:28
johnxqgil, yup. there are other strategies too, like getting yourself moved to some other part of the world :)00:28
zakkma friend of mine is korean , and he said he would help me if i were to try and learn it, im stupid cause i should of took  a language in my highskool / learn from people gradually00:29
zakkmunable to do that though ;p00:29
crashanddieI want to move to sweden to learn the language00:29
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zakkmhow would a job help? with speaking language?00:29
crashanddie(at least, that's what I tell my gf)00:29
johnxzakkm, if everyone at your job speaks a different language, you'll learn it or get fired :D00:29
crashanddiejohnx, not true00:30
zakkmcant pick up the language that quickly :D00:30
johnxconstant motivation is the hardest part of learning a language00:30
johnxzakkm, have you ever tried?00:30
johnxyou never know what you can do until you're *really* motivated :)00:30
zakkmhaving a job where everyone speaks a different language, no00:30
zakkmim still at my first few jobs stage ;p00:30
crashanddiejohnx, I've worked in countries that were non-english, but the work language was english, can assure you my ass was never on the line ;)00:30
qgilthere is plenty of Spanish people going to London to learn English, getting a job in a kitchen and ending up learning... all kinds of languages from other non-English spakers in the same kitchen00:31
zakkmthats cool00:31
johnxspanish <-> english isn't too bad00:31
zakkmi live in Toronto, canada by the way, for the purpose of this chat00:31
crashanddieqgil, problem with "non-qualified workers" is that most of the time they end up staying within their own community, and it gets pretty hard to learn the actual language, considering they never speak it00:31
johnxenglish <-> $asian_language is generally hard00:31
zakkmwhole new language system00:31
lcukjohnx, i spoke with omweather author for just 2 days, it was his first ever time speaking in english, obviously things were hard but i was astounded by how much we managed to convey in that time00:31
crashanddieqgil, if you are an educated worker, you'll have bases that will allow you to communicate on a primary level, learning from there is a lot easier00:32
lcuk(hes russian)00:32
qgilcrashanddie: this is why I forced myself to share flat with brits when moving to London00:32
zakkmlondon is awesome :D00:32
zakkmi was there for like 3 days few years ago00:32
johnxlcuk, yup. I still maintain that knowing "how to communicate" is a skill that's independent of language00:32
zakkmyou guys move around alot eh?00:32
zakkmdoesnt that hurt financially?00:33
qgilzakkm: in my case staying where I was would have hurt probably more00:33
crashanddieqgil, if I go to Nokia, and yell Hyvä iltaa! at 9AM, only if we have a common language will you be able to tell me "that's for evenings dude" and will I learn00:33
lcukagreed johnx, at first it took hand waving and going slowly, but we found the common ground and adapted to each other00:33
qgilSpain is beating records on unemployment as we speak...00:33
zakkmqgil: you from spain?00:33
qgilNokia is not the best place to learn Finnish in Finland, really00:34
crashanddie"Quim Gil" now there's a spanish name00:34
zakkmi once knew a guy in Finland :(00:34
zakkmwent to serve in the army, never heard from him again00:34
qgilQuim is a Catalan name, to be precise.  :)00:34
timeless_mbpNokia is about the worst place to learn anything in Finland :)00:34
crashanddieoh right, you're catalan, right, forgot about that00:34
zakkmnokia is centered in finland?00:35
crashanddiezakkm, get back in your cave00:35
zakkmyes sir00:35
qgil(time to go back to editing the wiki page)00:35
timeless_mbpnah, it's centered in Japan ;-)00:35
GeneralAntillesRight geographic oddity right there.00:35
zakkmwikipedia says Finland :D00:35
GeneralAntillesYou trust wikipedia? ;)00:36
zakkmits a problem of my youth00:36
zakkmits jsut so good00:37
qgilactually Nokia is not centered in Finland but in Espoo00:39
jaskaespoo is where the barriers between dimensions are thin00:40
jaskaand the monsters leak thru00:40
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* qgil feels some boredom starting a table for a schedule in a wiki (or plain HTML actually)00:42
GeneralAntillesDon't talk to me about wiki boredom. :P00:43
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GeneralAntillesI need to get X-Fade to fix the amboxes. . . .00:44
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VDVsxqgil, btw, the amsterdam venues that you saw are fine enough for the summit ?00:49
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qgilyes, both the WesterGas and the Felix Meritis make merits for a good Summit00:50
qgilthe problem is now on Nokia's plate, really00:50
qgilI will report more deeply, but since you ask00:50
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qgilthe thing is that we are looking at the calendar and roadmap seeing what to announce when00:51
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qgiland it could be that 11-13 is not an ideal date actually00:52
qgilmaybe after OSiM would be better00:52
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qgilor even in mid october..............00:52
qgilso we need to decide some things internally about dates and announcements00:52
qgiland then talk to you about when would be better for the summit00:53
GAN800Now that sounds bad. :/00:53
qgilmid october could mean to start talking about Harmattan...00:54
zakkmany of you guys want a free domain?00:54
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* VDVsx start crying, mid October = thesis presentation :(00:54
zakkmmid october, so far away :D00:54
qgildon't panic00:54
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qgilthe plan is still 11-13 and we would have good content and venue for that00:55
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VDVsxat least will be at a weekend I assume :P00:55
qgilbut there might be a possibility to have something more/better just 1-4 weeks later, and it's worth considering00:55
qgilremember that we took th 11-13 sep just because of OSiM world, now we have more elements to think about00:56
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qgilthe 1-4 extra weeks might help more people arranging some travel plans based on stuff announced before00:57
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qgilwhat to do? one option is to have a progression from the previous summit, having a similar audience + some more people and have something basically around Maemo 500:59
qgilanother option is to give a bit more time for more stuff, get a wider audience and have more Harmattan flesh in place01:00
qgilany many other possibilities in between of course01:00
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VDVsxmake sense, if you guys plan to announce maemo related stuff at OSIM, but IMO I think maemo 5 should take a lot of attention, not need to wait for harmattan01:01
GAN800Be nice to get a meetup outside of Europe01:01
* zakkm just got 2 year unlimited hosting from dreamhost and is willing to give ppl ftp access to upload maemo/mer/whatever related files01:02
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qgilVDVsx: remember that the prvious Maemo Summit was a good place to start sharing the "Fremantle vision"01:02
qgilby September/October Fremantle should be all set when it comes to vision01:03
VDVsxI hope so, lol01:03
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qgilGAN800: outside of Europe meaning USA?01:04
* zakkm thinks there will be a n900 prototype at the next maemo summit/danishweekend01:04
zakkmyeahhh Toronto, canada would be nice! :P01:04
GAN800qgil, eventually, but I'm sure people elsewhere would also appreciate having something there.01:04
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qgilGAN800: and us too, but we need more momentum and critical mass in the land of iPhone and Android, I think01:05
zakkmi dont know about there, but everyone here i know mostly has a ipod touch/iphone01:06
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GAN800Android is all hype. Nobody actually owns Android devices.01:07
GAN800Here, anyway.01:07
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* zakkm never seen anything android in person ever and lives in a huge city.01:07
qgilspecially in the US, hype is half of your product  ;)01:07
GeneralAntillesI've seen a G1 once.01:07
GeneralAntillesSee tons of iPhones, though.01:07
johnxGAN800, saw a fair number at LFNW, but saw just about as many freerunners ;)01:07
zakkmalso you guys are tech people, your have a higher chance of seeing such gadgets01:08
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, bad sample. :P01:08
GeneralAntillesEast coast, too.01:08
GeneralAntillesEr, I'm East, you're West.01:09
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VDVsxqgil, don't knowing the maemo roadmap at deep, I think it will all depends when fremantle will be released, i.e if freematle is out in June/July, I agreed with you (we should wait for harmattan), if the fremantle device only hit the shelf's in August/Sept, I think it will worth keep the current dates, because fremantle will still fresh at this time01:10
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johnxGeneralAntilles, thanks for clearning that up :)01:10
GuySofthey, about the maemo microphone - how come it can only record khz? what chip is on there?01:13
zakkmanyone have a old geocities account?01:14
johnxzakkm, are they owned by yahoo now? I think I had one at one point...01:14
zakkmthey always were01:14
zakkmthey shut it down like last week, and dreamhost is offering 2 yr free domain + unlimited web hosting to all old geocities members01:14
johnxyeah, think I have one, but I don't know the password ...01:14
qgilVDVsx: too many variables at the moment and I can't discuss here most of them, sorry  :(01:14
johnxzakkm, !!01:15
zakkm"$214 value"01:15
qgilas said 11-13 is still the plan and this is why yesterday (actually now 2 days ago) I went to Amsterdam to look for venues with Kees and Nils01:15
zakkmyou have to change a page to add some string, and then use it as a promocode when register for dreamhost, and it brings it to $001:15
VDVsxqgil, I know, just expressing my side/opinion :)01:15
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GAN800johnx, confusing, right? ;)01:16
johnxyeah, if you weren't here to remind me where I am I'd probably get confused and end up in Japan or something01:17
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* GAN800 is addled again today01:17
qgil20 minutes for prsentations/demos? not lightning - not extended - not taking too much time from your work01:18
zakkmwow, alot of work has been put into this event01:19
qgilVDVsx: even knowing all the internal info is not clear to have a side/opion  :)01:19
VDVsxGAN800, for me, is pacific coast and Atlantic coast :P easier01:19
GAN800I'd love to see Fremantle come with a spellcheck framework.01:19
qgilthis is why I'm concentrating on Copenhagen now because there is no 3 without 1 and 2 (Desktop Summit)01:19
johnxGAN800, gtk already has one01:19
GAN800VDVsx, 'Atlantic coast represent!' doesn't work so well. :P01:20
* zakkm would love to see fremantle ui/theme work on n80001:20
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lcukqgil, 20 mins! longer than last time :)01:20
VDVsxGAN800, lol01:20
GAN800johnx, the I'd like to see Fremantle come with a dictionary or somethimg.01:20
* lcuk starts writing now :P01:20
johnxGAN800, not sure if it's just a compile time option, or something that happened in a later gtk, or what01:21
qgillcuk: mmm nw you make think of 1501:21
GAN800s/the/then/ s/img/ing/01:21
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lcukheh - you have made me nervous already!01:21
VDVsx15 min + 5 min for Q&A sounds fine01:22
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GAN800lcuk's talk is 1 hour and nobody's allowed to laugh. :P01:22
* zakkm thinks 5min wont be enough for Q&A01:22
lcukbtw, on a related topic - is there a SIMPLE dictation program for n8x0 - i have one on my phone which "just works" but i want one for nokia01:22
lcukwe could never get mic working01:22
GAN800White Stork01:22
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* lcuk practices his Northern01:23
GAN800Quim, you have a red phone to Ville re #3602?01:24
qgilGAN800: I think this one will get sorted out01:25
GAN800Alternatively I think we should get andre__ a stick to beat people with.01:26
qgilGAN800: Ville probably doesn't have a confirmed answer yet but Fremantle is integrated in a way much more modular and customizable, so it could be done01:26
* GAN800 should look at the bugzilla report cards again.01:26
qgilI agre Ville could report more statuses even if the thing is not decided yet01:26
GAN800Shouting into the dark is tiresome and wasteful of everybody's time and bandwidth.01:27
qgilhow much time for Mer in the auditorium? 15 or more?01:27
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qgilGAN800: this darkness takes me also plenty of time so yes, I agree01:28
lcuksay 15 for now quim, then like last time we can adjust as required01:28
lcuki think time was halved as additional ones came onboard01:28
lcukbut at least you have a baseline01:28
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qgillcuk: but hre is different: we don't have a schedule to fill since those activities are complementary to the main purpose of meeting and work on your own projects and surroundings01:29
lcukgood point01:29
zakkmanyone willing to give me a google voice invite? :D01:30
fireunyou're invited (;01:31
zakkmi heard you can do invites, like gmail does01:32
zakkmi want to try it on tablet :P01:32
fireungood luck finding someone who uses it01:32
zakkmnobody uses?01:32
GAN800I haven't seen any invites01:32
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fireunskype has the only people I know who use voip01:33
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GAN800Voicemail transcription is fairly epic.01:33
zakkmskype on iphone i think changes alot :P01:34
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johnxI think they closed off invites for right now. I expect them to do more with it later though01:35
lcukim vanishing anyway \o gnite qgil, gan vdv johnx etc01:36
johnx'night lcuk :)01:36
zakkmnight lcuk01:36
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VDVsxgnite lcuk01:41
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qgilso hopefully the page is much better now based on your feedback some hours ago01:43
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qgilif someone could add some captions of the pictures of the venue available, that would be great01:44
qgilI'm falling asleep right nowwwwwwwww01:44
VDVsxqgil, isn't possible to stay at night in the 'hacking hall' ?01:45
qgilVDVsx: er... I don't think so01:45
GAN800So no leaving drunk hackers lying around. ;)01:45
qgilbut I see your point and actually there is a students lounge/bar nearby that is open during the night (don't know exact timing)01:46
qgiland I wouldn 't be surprised if they would be under the campus wifi cloud01:46
qgilI'll ask, good point01:47
VDVsxnormally those partys are 24hours of programming (or more for some strong guys :P)01:47
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qgilyes yes, we need to think something - agred01:47
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qgilnot for the 24h but at least something between 18:00-23:5901:48
GAN800Sounds to me like VDVsx is volunteering to have everybody convene in his room. :P01:49
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qgilcombination of night public transport is something to look at01:49
VDVsxGAN800, I will not attend :P01:49
qgilwe don't want hackers without money to pay a taxi realzing while compiling that it's 2am and there is no easy way to go back to the hotel01:50
lcukqgil, check with the hotel its bar opening times and laptop allowances ;)01:51
VDVsxqgil, yup, It should be a problem, I went to some hacking partys and normally we stay in the building until morning (of course older people leave earlier)01:51
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VDVsxqgil, taxi at DK should be not very cheap01:52
lcukor else im sure theres some all nite cafes01:53
* VDVsx and friends payed 30 € in amsterdam for a taxi ride :P01:53
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zakkmdoesnt anyone take public transit down there?02:01
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VDVsxgnite folks :)02:04
johnxnight VDVsx02:05
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penguinbaitlcuk :)02:10
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penguinbaithows it goin02:10
lcukpainfully thanks02:11
penguinbaithhehe, you seemed lonely from your post, so I thouhgt I would say hello02:11
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penguinbaitwooo hooo02:12
lcukheh its been bustling tonight02:12
penguinbaitit is quiet in here02:12
lcuk i meant in general02:12
lcuki almost added a footnote02:12
lcukur on a bit of a crusade at the moment anyway02:12
lcuksudden burst of energy :P02:13
penguinbaitwhich one02:13
penguinbaitlull at work :)02:13
lcukall places, ahhh02:13
lcukyou got the fremantle sdk running?02:14
penguinbaitno, I am waiting for hardware02:14
lcukwhy dont you try qoles trick :)02:14
lcukits dead simple02:14
penguinbaitwhats that?02:14
lcukjust start the sdk up and put a vnc server on it02:14
lcukthen use the vnc client on your tablet02:14
lcukyou can get the "feel" of it and see how your apps will look and stuff02:15
lcukits not perfect, but its better than pretending its a touchscreen02:15
penguinbaitI have never run anything graphically from the SDK02:16
penguinbaitI compiled 100+ apps then tarball to tablet02:16
lcukthe first time i experienced it was when qwerty12 shared it from his vnc02:16
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lcukmy home linux machine wont make it02:16
lcukwont work with it ^02:16
penguinbaitwith the VNC, or the SDK ?02:17
lcuki do all my compilation on tablet too :) gcc runs nicely02:17
lcukthe sdk on my laptop runs at about 5sec / frame02:17
penguinbaitIts handy for small stuff, It should be much better on the next hardware02:17
lcukyeah im hoping so02:17
penguinbaitme too02:18
lcukive got an idea about distribution02:18
lcukand workflow02:18
lcukchop out scratchbox for all but the biggest stuff for those willing to try :)02:18
lcuk:) johnx its also gotta work on the default install02:19
lcukbut yes 100% agree, mer allows MUCH more02:19
johnxthat's Nokia's choice if they want to pick up using the openSuse builder as well02:19
johnxThat came along at exactly the right moment for us02:20
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penguinbaitare any major changes expected when the SDK comes out of beta? or is it all just bugs fixes left?02:20
lcukyeah you lot seem to have been getting teeth into it nicely02:20
johnxthough if Nokia keeps ash+busybox I doubt building deb packages on the tablet will be very fun in Maemo02:20
lcuki dunno pb02:20
luke-jrI've decided I'm not buying the next tablet until I know for certain it is 100% open02:20
johnxok luke-jr. no one is forcing you02:21
lcukas johnx says mer is already shape using those, so momentum says the longer they leave it the less chance02:21
penguinbaitI bought 770, 800, 810, and I will buy a whatever the hell it will be called02:21
lcukluke-jr, so you dont want flash or skype or maps?02:21
luke-jrlcuk: no02:21
lcukfair enough :)02:21
luke-jrlcuk: you'd need to bribe me to use them02:21
luke-jrand I don't mean the software that is included02:21
lcukno i wouldnt02:21
luke-jrI couldn't care less what that is02:22
johnxlcuk, it only became feasible for us very recently I think, and Nokia had already decided on scratchbox for fremantle long before that02:22
luke-jrjust as long as I can install my own stuff that is Free only02:22
johnxthey have a choice for hermatten though02:22
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luke-jrlcuk: my Zaurus which I haven't touched for over a year has a newer kernel than the N810 ;p02:23
johnxluke-jr, because people spent a lot of time reverse engineering it02:23
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lcukin practical terms though, what does that gain?02:23
johnxlcuk, continued userland upgrades in the long term. better performance in the short term02:23
johnxit is an issue that will need to be addressed eventually02:23
luke-jrjohnx: my point wasn't that Sharp is better than Nokia, it's not02:24
johnxluke-jr, I agree that we need a new kernel on the n8x0 hardware. We just need to dig up a kernel hacker and get them hooked :>02:24
johnxthe situation looks better for the omap3 though02:24
luke-jrlcuk: in practical terms, my GPS takes over 30 minutes to first fix AFTER I've spent HOURS hacking at it because Nokia/TI refuses to give protocol info02:25
luke-jrI think we need a fair use law that protocol specs need to be licensed automatically if buy hardware using it02:25
lcukluke-jr, thats not the same thing as having a newer kernel - i AGREE if it was open and someone with experience in the chipset can help it would be fixed02:25
lcukbut it requires both elements02:25
luke-jrthis "you can buy the GPS, but you need to spend weeks reverse engineering if you want to use it" is BS02:26
lcuki didnt reverse engineer anything?02:26
lcuktodd happily directs tracy around02:26
johnxluke-jr, the GPLv3 should help as it further "infects" more parts of the GNU/Linux userland ;)02:26
lcuktraffic circles and everything02:26
penguinbaitMy gps works fine, and my bt gps works even better02:27
AStormGPS receivers are actually standarized02:27
AStormNMEA ftw02:27
AStormboth BT and RS-232 ones02:27
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luke-jrlcuk: you're using Nokia software; what if you want to use the GPS itself?02:29
luke-jrAStorm: the GPS5300 inside N810 is non-standard02:29
lcuk? luke-jr we do use the gps?02:29
AStormI suspect it is standard02:30
AStormbut connected to some weird bus, like SPI02:30
penguinbaitI am a maemo-mapper advocate myself02:30
AStormbtw, the gpsdriver makes it look like a BT GPS02:30
lcuki can barely talk ive got my own map here lol02:30
* lcuk was banned from google maps whilst playing02:30
AStormOpenStreet then?02:31
luke-jrAStorm: it's on a serial port UART02:31
penguinbaitdo they still offer the fre API?02:31
luke-jrlcuk: by using the GPS, I mean talking directly to the hardware02:31
AStormluke-jr, so it *has* to be standard02:31
luke-jrAStorm: nope02:31
luke-jrAStorm: proprietary gpsdriver blob converts it to NMEA in userspace02:31
AStormotherwise it's not a GPS, but some GPS-like whizbang02:31
lcukluke-jr, i thought all gps stuff was serial?02:31
penguinbaitI used to be signed up through google and they allow you to create maps from them02:31
luke-jrAStorm: gpsd dev suspects it is a specially designed dsp ;)02:31
lcukie nothing has direct access to the hardware02:31
AStormwhat idiot thought it's a good idea?02:31
luke-jrAStorm: TI02:32
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AStormah, you say it's another ARM7?02:32
AStormnifty reuse02:32
johnxprobably decided they could save some money02:32
AStormstill, the antenna is junk02:32
luke-jrto make it worse, the blob depends on GNOME libs and requires a user named "user"02:32
AStormand the algorithm is junk too02:32
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johnxthat's how these things start02:32
lcukyeah pb02:32
AStormbut, if it is ARM...02:32
luke-jrand Nokia refuses to modify/abstract the protocol even02:33
lcukif i was gonna go further than an hour of curiosity i would do02:33
AStormand we find out how to access the darned antenna02:33
lcukbut its just something else i wanted to test02:33
AStormthen we can make it suck much less02:33
AStormTI NDAs suck02:33
AStorma lot.02:33
* lcuk senses automatic internet download and displaying is gonna be important02:33
AStormluke-jr, what protocol?02:34
AStormI suspect the gpsdriver is the gps.02:34
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AStormjust a few added opcodes to some generic ARM702:34
AStormjust like the DSP02:34
AStormor possibly like IVA202:34
AStormin OMAP302:34
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luke-jrAStorm: GPS5300 proprietary protocol02:36
lcukif i just reupload my avatar does it get scaled yet02:36
luke-jrAStorm: what gpsdriver talks over the serial port02:36
lcukim sick of peeking02:36
AStormmore like ARM7 instructions?02:36
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luke-jrAStorm: more like ttyS0 communications02:37
AStormah, you mean the bunch of data they're sending02:37
luke-jrAStorm: I haven't disassembled yet, but I see no reason it'd use instructions02:37
AStormI'm talking what the gps actually is02:37
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AStormI think the actual GPS is just a tiny app connected to the antenna02:37
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AStormsomething extremely easy02:37
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AStormthen the real algorithms are in userspace02:38
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AStormand that the actual GPS "propietary" protocol is implemented on another ARM subunit02:39
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AStorma bunch of microcode, maybe02:39
AStormnow, getting at that w/o the docs might be close to impossible02:40
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AStorm"High performance: The GPS5300 NaviLink 4.0 solution enables a rapid time to first fix (TTFF) from weak satellite signals, exceeding the GPS requirements for 3GPP and 3GPP2 operation."02:42
AStormyes, it is a simple software radio specialized for GPS02:43
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lcuk* NB requires a 12 foot antenna02:43
johnxheh. I thought you were laughing about the "rapid time to first fix" :)02:44
AStormI was, and the other point too02:44
AStormit is a dumb antenna02:44
AStormso we could actually code better noise/echo rejection algorithm for it02:44
lcuki wonder if using it in the car actually boosts the signal if placed correctly in the window02:45
johnxwell, what did you expect them to say "The GPS5300 NaviLink 4.0 solution enables a painfully slow time to first fix, leaving your users frustrated and confused."?02:45
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AStormfunny there's no actual docs about it02:47
jaskawell, thatd be truth in advertising :)02:47
AStormpropietary protocols of uselessness02:47
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AStormit's not *that* bad I suspect, but n810 antenna is suboptimal02:47
AStormand the software algorithms are... poor02:48
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AStormto cut costs most of the "analog" path is actually digital components, increasing quantization noise02:48
AStorm"DRP: decreasing power usage at the cost of noise floor"02:49
luke-jrAStorm: to be fair, when A-GPS is working, gpsdriver got me a fix quite fast02:50
AStormthat's 5s in good conditions02:50
luke-jr5 sec max TTFF is impossible02:51
AStormwhich is quite slow :)02:51
AStormthat's not max02:51
AStormthat min02:51
AStormmax is infinity02:51
luke-jrmax is 30s in ideal conditiosn02:51
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AStormin building obscured clean weather conditions, I got like 30-45s02:51
AStormwhich is not good, considering that fairly slow SIRF3 could go in 3s02:52
AStormw/o AGPS02:52
luke-jr3s is impossible w/o AGPS…02:52
AStorm(MTK was instantaneous, btw)02:52
AStormit is, because it caches last fix data02:52
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luke-jrthat's AGPS02:53
AStormthat's not exactly AGPS02:53
AStormclose enough02:53
AStormAGPS gives fresh ephemeris02:53
luke-jrthat last fix data is very useful02:53
AStormthis thing extrapolates from old ephemeris02:53
AStormyes, it is :)02:53
luke-jrgot code for that? ;)02:53
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AStormno, sorry, it's hardware!02:53
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luke-jrAStorm: hardware can't do that02:54
AStormsure it can02:54
luke-jrfirmware is not hardware02:54
AStormwhatever you say02:54
AStormit is a DSP02:54
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AStormok, so it actually can "extend" ephemeris data to about 20h02:55
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AStormI got tricked02:55
AStormit wasn't a fresh fix then02:55
AStormit was a "guess fix"02:55
AStorm(but AGPS is not a first fix either, really, heh)02:56
AStorman actual first fix *inside a building* took 35s02:57
AStormnow, n810's can't do that02:57
luke-jrI get better fixes inside a building02:57
luke-jrmine can02:57
luke-jrdepends on the building, of course02:57
AStormyes, that was good old brick02:57
AStormwith thick walls02:57
AStormsome meters from windows02:58
AStormI wonder how it resolved all the echos to get a 2D fix02:58
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AStormthe TI chip is junk02:59
Macerthis toshiba laptop i got goes slow as shit :)02:59
Macercompared to the macbook02:59
AStormit's not even that power-efficient02:59
johnxit's their low end chip. if they made it not crappy no one would buy a better one02:59
johnxthis is the chip they use to upsell people :P03:00
AStormnot low end - it's just old03:00
AStormNokia got it as a part of a package deal03:00
johnxit's their cheapest one, isn't it?03:00
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AStormyou get OMAP2 with all the additional stuff03:00
AStormjohnx, nope03:00
AStormthere are cheaper ones03:00
johnxeven my $20 (with contract) phone gets a gps fix faster03:01
AStormit probably has some older SIRF03:01
AStormthose are cheap03:01
johnxif course now it's not playing nice. heh.03:02
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johnxhey b-man03:02
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b-manhello, johnx :)03:02
AStormmeh, MTK kicks butt of all the other GPS receivers anyway03:02
AStormbut it's not a brand yet :)03:02
johnxthis is the longest I've ever seen it take to get a fix. Must be performance anxiety ...03:03
johnxguess being stuck inside makes a difference :)03:03
johnxoh, it just saw a satellite03:04
AStormyes it does03:04
AStormn810's doesn't see a sat from here even with AGPS03:04
AStormit's 3m to a window, brick building though, and a lot of electric noise03:04
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locutusAStorm: i havent even gotten GPS to work while standing outside in the field, on a unclouded day03:08
locutusAStorm: i stood there for 10 minutes, then it just felt to stupid to continue03:09
AStormyou mean n810's?03:09
locutusn810's internal one yes03:09
AStormw/o AGPS it usually sucked03:09
AStormyou had to move for it to get a fix03:09
AStormassisted - downloads ephemeris data from the internet03:09
AStorm(given approximate location)03:10
locutustbh, i've just thrown a BT GPS in my backpack03:10
locutusit gets a fix in about 5 seconds03:10
AStormwhich one btw?03:10
* johnx needs to hack up my phone so my n800 can use its gps...03:10
locutusthe one03:10
AStormI think the internal GPS is lacking proper echo cancellation03:11
AStormthat's why when it's not moving, the times to fix are far longer03:11
AStormyes, they are03:12
AStormon the move, slow, it fixes much faster03:12
AStormwhere slow means like <30 km/h03:12
AStormeven walking around is enough03:13
AStormheck, I had it fix (w/o AGPS) in my pocket after 20s03:13
AStormjust because I was walking03:14
AStormwhich was similar to fix times w/ AGPS on03:14
luke-jrpretty sure AGPS-less in 20s is impossible03:15
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AStormit is possible, if the ephemeris is received fine in first attempt03:17
AStorm(the receiver can grab that from a few sats at once)03:17
AStorm(that's how the better GPS chips get TTFF so fast)03:18
luke-jrAStorm: the ephemeris takes 14 minutes to receive03:18
luke-jrover GPS03:18
AStormfull, yes03:18
luke-jrfrom 1 sat03:18
AStormbut enough to get around, nope03:19
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AStormyou only need current position really03:20
AStormso if you're lucky, a few sats will be broadcasting just that03:21
AStormone sat ephemeris transmission takes about 30s03:26
AStorm - if you really have to know :)03:27
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AStormso the minimum TTFF w/o the current almanac is 18s03:35
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AStormif you happen to receive from at least 3 different sats the correct 3 subframes03:35
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AStormw/ almanac you technically need only parts of subframes 2 and 303:38
AStormthat's 6-12s03:38
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* b-man HATES his POS connection >:(03:45
GeneralAntillesI've come to the conclusion that what penguinbait really wants is a mass email spaming for every little bit of community minutia that happens to come up.03:45
GeneralAntillesb-man, is it Comcast?03:46
b-manno, Version03:47
GeneralAntillesAh, fun too.03:47
johnxGeneralAntilles, you still having problems with comcast? it's gotten worse here, but it's impossible to search google for anyone with similar problems03:47
b-manre: Verison03:47
GeneralAntillesFriend of mine got a 20/20 FiOS connection03:47
johnx...because there are too many people with problems...03:47
GeneralAntillesThey dropped all connections every 15 minutes to keep people from running servers.03:47
penguinbaityeah GA03:47
penguinbaityou pegged it03:47
penguinbaitI want 5 mailing lists03:47
b-manhay penguinbait03:47
penguinbait40 webpages03:47
penguinbait50 wiki pages03:48
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, there are 3 mailing lists.03:48
GeneralAntillesjohnx, dunno, I'm on Brighthouse now again.03:48
penguinbaitlooks like 5 to me03:48
penguinbaithey b-man03:48
johnxpenguinbait, those last ones were supposed to be kept secret from users because it's a Nokia conspiracy though03:49
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, I see the assertion made that these things were never discussed on itT, yet when Tim provides several topic links to refute that claim his post goes ignored.03:49
penguinbaithey, you got to wag the dog03:49
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, the Newstyle testing thread was really quite long.03:49
penguinbaitNobody was saying that it was not discussed03:50
GeneralAntillesYeah, that seems to be exactly what I'm reading.03:50
penguinbaitwe are just saying it better if more people know03:50
GeneralAntillesYour proposal seems to be spamming email for every possible thing anybody might possibly want to provide input on.03:51
Maceri went to the museum of science and industry today03:51
Maceri haven't been there since i was 603:51
Macerit totally sucked :)03:51
GeneralAntillesThere's a certain amount of due diligence required if you really want to input your opinion on every tiny thing.03:51
Macerthey had soem sort of harry potter exibit .. and i had no idea what harry potter had to do with science or industry03:52
penguinbaitGA, please go reread my first post03:52
penguinbaityou seem to be confused03:52
GeneralAntillesThe closing of the subforums was discussed rather extensively. There was plenty of opportunity to provide input, the thread was very visible on itT03:52
penguinbaitso your saying you dont want community input GA?03:52
GeneralAntillesso where's your input?03:52
penguinbaitI juat saw a thread started today, I gave my input03:53
penguinbaitlike it03:53
GeneralAntillesOnly coming out now after a consensus has been reached and the work has been done.03:53
penguinbaitYou gonna be ok?03:53
penguinbaitI responded to the post I saw03:53
penguinbaitI apparently didnt see the other one03:54
GeneralAntillesI'm not really sure what to say, if you're the type of person who likes to have an opinion about stuff like this, then you should probably be following the places where discussions take place.03:54
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penguinbaitI guess thats what happens, when you have a job, and four kids, you miss some shit03:54
GeneralAntillesWhich is why the big stuff is aggregated to the council blog.03:55
johnxpenguinbait, well, the onus isn't on other people to keep you informed. If you care, figure out how to keep up with this stuff.03:55
penguinbaitThanks for the input Johnx03:55
Proteoussometimes it's the shit that's right in the middle of the kitchen floor that you step on when you get up in the middle of the night to pee then think that getting a snack would be a good idea and then when you get into the kitchen and step in something soft and smelly the snack looses all appeal03:56
penguinbaitI feel enlightened03:56
GeneralAntillesWe can't play guessing games at what people are going to pitch fits over.03:56
johnxpenguinbait, sure. any time. enlightenment on request, satisfaction guaranteed03:56
ProteousI pitch fits over small animals getting into my cat food supply, just so you don't have to guess03:56
penguinbaitLook its a community, I am using my voice NOW to alter my community, and GA you are my inspiration03:56
penguinbaitdon't like, tough fing shit fellas03:56
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GeneralAntillesInput is generally solicited on -community or the forum03:57
penguinbaitThanks for the input GA03:57
penguinbaitI feel enlightened03:57
GeneralAntillesa peek into either about once or twice a week will keep you from missing anything you deem important.03:57
johnxpenguinbait, you're definitely providing a lot of input, but I doubt it's going to accomplish much without being a little more constructive and civil03:57
penguinbaityoud be surprised what is being accomplished03:58
penguinbaitmaybe some might even be mad?  oh well03:58
GeneralAntillesA lot of negativity is being thrown around to little use is what it looks like to me.03:58
johnxhere's what I see accomplished: People are getting stirred up. Someone will write a css theme to invert the colors03:58
penguinbaitthats because its mostly coming from you GA03:58
penguinbaitits easy to hear03:58
johnxthis could have been accomplished just as well without creating this huge shit storm03:59
* luke-jr flings some doo at johnx03:59
* b-man wonders if it is worth releasing Pdisk for maemo - i allrety have it built03:59
* johnx ignores luke-jr again03:59
penguinbaitwhats pdisk03:59
luke-jryou're all being way too serious ;P03:59
b-manpenguinbait: Mac patition utility04:00
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GeneralAntillespenguinbait, I really don't have the energy to dig up a bunch of examples of posts from you that I believe are negative, but don't tell me you believe yourself to be squeaky clean here.04:00
penguinbaitjust command line or ncurses?04:00
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penguinbaitgood GA, because I dont want to read your crap04:00
penguinbaitsave it04:00
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, yeah, see that's negative.04:01
penguinbaitI called texrat a dick04:01
penguinbaitlook that up04:01
b-mancommand line - kinda like sfdisk04:01
penguinbaityour being one too btw04:01
GeneralAntillesI don't deny it at least.04:01
GeneralAntillesYou, apparently, believe yourself to be complete faultless.04:01
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: You, apparently, believe yourself to be completely faultless.04:02
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penguinbaitwhen did I say I was faultless04:02
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penguinbaitI never said I was Jesus04:02
b-manguys, guys, we don't need to fight :)04:03
johnxb-man++ :)04:03
penguinbaithey, lcuk said the channel was quiet04:04
johnxI don't think anyone's going to suddenly see eye-to-eye, here. Might as well just cool down...04:04
penguinbaitI'm good04:05
penguinbaitanyone else just dying to get some fresh hardware?04:06
johnxwould be fun. means more work though ;)04:06
* luke-jr flings some grilled chicken at b-man04:06
penguinbaitI can't wait to get some more speed04:06
luke-jrb-man: let's turn this into a food fighjt04:06
johnxeven a little more RAM would make me much happier.04:06
penguinbaitme too04:06
penguinbaitmore ram04:06
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luke-jr128 MB creates problems trying to link qt-webkit :<04:07
luke-jris N810 RAM solder-replacable?04:07
penguinbaitnot by me04:07
* b-man eats dinner04:08
b-manluke-jr: :P04:08
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johnxalso looking forward to universal video playback04:13
johnxbut I keep thinking about getting a bigger battery for my N800 to make it a real always-on mobile server04:14
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GAN800Do they offee bigger batteries?04:19
GAN800Beagles would be nice for that if they had better powersaving.04:19
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johnxyou can get an expanded BP-5L kit for a different Nokia phone, but you'd be without a back cover at that point04:20
johnxI'm thinking of a gumstix with a 9-cell laptop battery on the back and a card that can do wifi hostap04:21
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johnxhi t2a04:21
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johnxnah, I was just gonna go verdex. whatever has a CF slot04:22
GAN800x86 seems like a bad plan04:22
johnxeh? verdex is xscale/pxa27x04:22
GAN800oh is it? nevermind then04:22
johnxsame as the zaurus. good support, not too bad on power, can be clocked low and undervolted04:22
GAN800I don't pay much attention to Gumstux's lineup.04:23
infobotGAN800 meant: I don't pay much attention to Gumstix's lineup.04:23
johnxI look at it and get grand plans every couple months :)04:23
johnxnever do anything with it though. heh04:23
johnxit was in the past. soon it will be lack of time :)04:23
t2aHow do you managed build error while crosscompiling dbus-glib please ? i would like to compile it for powrepc (sorry it out of topic) and i'm stuck with cannot execute binary file /home/gpg/build-tools/ltib/rpm/BUILD/dbus-glib-0.76/dbus/.libs/lt-dbus-binding-tool --prefix=some_object --mode=glib-server --output=example-service-glue.h ./example-service.xml04:23
GAN800er, how much for the board?04:24
t2ai would like to share your experience regarding this issue04:24
johnxt2a, considered building in qemu-system-ppc?04:24
t2ajohnx, interesting04:24
t2ajoelmaher, haven't tried yet04:24
t2ajoelmaher, oops04:25
joelmahert2a: np04:25
johnxnot sure if that's an easy option, but it seems that during the build it's trying to run execute some intermediate ppc binary04:25
t2ajohnx, no04:25
t2ajohnx, yes of course04:25
t2ait uses those binaries to generate some header files04:25
t2ajohnx, i cant use qemu-system-ppc but trying to figure if it's possible to call lt-dbus-binding-tool with qemu-ppc instead04:26
johnxlooks like you might need to alter the build system, build natively on ppc, or build "natively" in qemu-system-ppc04:26
johnxyou'd need to staticly link it, but maybe so04:27
johnxanother thought is to look at how the OE/angstrom guys have altered the build system so that they can compile it04:27
t2ajohnx, thank you (i like this chan)04:27
johnxno problem :)04:28
johnxGAN800, the overo looks very cool though04:28
GAN800johnx, not sure if its powersaving is better than the Beagle's or not.04:30
johnxpowersaving is mostly a software thing IIUC04:31
GAN800Hardware clocks sucking juice all the time. Not sure if the DVI transceiver can be turned off, etc.04:31
GAN800To an extent04:31
johnxah, well that is suboptimal :/04:31
johnxI'll wait for rev C to judge :)04:32
GAN800It's out, no different. ;)04:32
johnxeither way I have a use for at least one beagle board in my head already04:32
johnxit is? shipping?04:32
GAN800For a while now04:32
t2ajohnx, have seen some no-example patches on theit website :) thank you again, i've completely forgot oe project :)04:33
johnxsure. they're a really good source for patches, even if I don't use angstrom on anything right now :>04:33
johnxeep, gotta run though. just saw the time O_o04:33
johnx'later all04:33
Macerit's about time house tapped cutty04:37
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fireunMacer: but does he stop hallucinating?04:55
penguinbaitanyone tried the handwriting calculator?04:57
penguinbaitlooks sweet I am grabbing it now04:57
b-manit's ok04:57
luke-jrb-man: Yandere?04:58
b-manshure lol04:58
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BobbeHey guys, just a general poll here. What soft do you use to share your media with your n8x0 over wifi? (I'm in Windows XP)04:59
* b-man really HATES his P.O.S connection >:(05:03
* b-man really HATES his P.O.S connection >:(05:03
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b-man(sorry if i double posted)05:03
Bobbewhat's P.O.S?05:05
b-man(piece of shit) lol05:05
Bobbelive and learn05:06
BobbeI'm having trouble with my wifi too, but I seriously think it's my router05:06
* b-man isn't using his router atm05:08
Bobbewhat's wrong with your connection?05:08
b-manit's verry unstable05:08
Bobbe3g here. u could be worse :|05:08
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Bobbedamn thing won't work on linux for love or money05:10
Bobbethis home media server canola recommends is one big P.O.S05:11
Bobbethis guy in itt wrote this neat little script that converts and streams to his n800 on-the-fly05:12
Bobbeall I wanted was something that did that in windoze05:13
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tank-manBobbe, ive heard of tversity on winxp that a lot of ps3/xbox360 users use to stream05:21
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tank-manupnp and all05:21
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Bobbedling it now, will test it. Thanks tank-man05:23
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Proteousbobbe, I use TVersity05:34
Proteousto stream to my n810, it works great05:35
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Proteousthere is even a n8x and n7x encoding setting05:35
Bobbeu use the canola version?05:37
BobbeI mean05:37
Bobbedo u access it via canola?05:37
BobbeProteous, when you select the N800 as the device, will it convert to the n8x0 screen size automatically?05:42
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Proteousyou can browse via UPNP from the tablets built in file browser05:51
Proteouswhich is what I use, but any software the supports UPNP servers will work05:51
Proteousas far as the screen size, I think I adjusted mine05:51
Proteouslet me check05:51
Proteoushe's gone05:52
CutMeOwnThroatthe cheek of it05:52
CutMeOwnThroatI normally rely on autocomplete to tell me05:52
CutMeOwnThroatand still people trick me05:52
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luke-jrwow, my N810 got lucky06:10
luke-jrTTFF < 1 min06:10
luke-jrTime To First Fix (GPS)06:11
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LiraNunais the TTFF long because of software or hardware?06:38
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luke-jrLiraNuna: software06:50
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LiraNunaluke-jr, and gps is closed source, right?07:05
luke-jrLiraNuna: yes07:06
LiraNunachipset known?07:06
luke-jrTI GPS530007:06
LiraNunaoh, did you guys heard about the Samsung Mondi?07:09
LiraNunalooks like a ripoff to me ->
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Bobbetank-man, thanks07:17
Bobbeexactly what I was looking for07:17
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luke-jrI thought Qt Mapper was a port of Maemo Mapper.. why does it have practically no functionality? :/09:18
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* thux would like to try flashrom in my lap but no coreboot.bins available :P09:24
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ZakkmN800chatting from nokia n800 is hard09:26
Stskeepsyeah, sometimes09:27
johnxneed a keyboard :)09:27
ZakkmN800i have one its attached to pc though i gota f to f adapter09:28
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* RST38h moos09:34
Stskeepsmoo Robot10109:35
RST38hheya sts, all09:35
johnxmorning RST38h09:35
* Stskeeps glances at the rs232 connector pics09:36
RST38hmale or female part?09:36
RST38h(sorry had to ask that =))09:37
Stskeepswell i asked them if there was a console connector on the board, and turns out there is :) sent me 4 high res pics of their solution for it, heh09:37
RST38hthere usually is, sometimes two09:38
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johnxtwo consoles at once? what would that be like? :D09:38
Stskeepsand the device even can boot from boot sector on a SD09:38
RST38hwhose SoC are they using anyway?09:38
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Stskeepsis what it seems to be modelled on09:39
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* Stskeeps wonders if it's possible to tap into the ethernet or IDE.09:39
RST38heither would require external circuitry09:39
Stskeepsyeah, obviously09:40
ZakkmN800woahh usb keyboardd :)09:40
ZakkmN800Gotta love the f-f adapter.09:40
ZakkmN800lots of wires though :(09:41
RST38hthats samsung...09:41
ZakkmN800Stskeeps: you got home yet to try the smartq?09:42
StskeepsZakkmN800: long ago. runs mer already09:42
ZakkmN800yo guys, i pressed some button and now i seem to have spellcheck popped up?09:42
ZakkmN800what just happened/ what i press09:42
StskeepsZakkmN800: took me less than 24 hours to port it09:42
ZakkmN800i dont know what i pressed :( i want it gone :(09:43
ZakkmN800and thats cool, full support?09:43
Stskeepsi'm missing 3-4 things and i have a fully open source firmware09:43
ZakkmN800Stskeeps, did you benchmark it yet ?09:44
Stskeepsnot yet09:44
ZakkmN800to see how well it compares to nokia tablet?09:44
Stskeepsnokia tablet has advantages in speaker and double-sd09:44
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Stskeepsand the fact nokia doesn't die when charger is taken out :)09:45
ZakkmN800the smartq dies?09:45
ZakkmN800mer thing or bad device?09:45
Stskeepscharger circuit fault on first batch09:45
Stskeepsbut works fine on battery after that09:45
ZakkmN800heh thats weird :)09:45
Stskeepsi have their firmware maker, rs232 console access, console, boot-from-SD, etc09:46
ZakkmN800also i find it weird it says usb device not supported, yet keyboard works fine ;p09:46
ZakkmN800it looks nicer than the tablets09:46
ZakkmN800well n810 looks better, but cant afford that :)09:46
ZakkmN800would make a nice alternate i think, having alot of mer devices09:47
Stskeepsalso, n8x0 had dpad.09:47
Stskeepsand esc buttn etc.09:47
Stskeepsi miss that.09:47
ZakkmN800what esc button?09:47
Stskeepsthe back button?09:48
ZakkmN800i think esc as like ¨ëxit¨09:48
ZakkmN800ör close09:48
ZakkmN800the smartq is at a nice price too09:49
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind a couple of them around my house really09:50
Stskeepsoh, it does suspend to ram too09:50
ZakkmN800the nokia should do that too i think09:51
ZakkmN800shouldnt it?09:51
ZakkmN800why doesnt it?09:51
Stskeepsit does but this one it seems to work nicley09:51
Stskeepsanyway, i gotta head to class soon09:52
ZakkmN800in school?09:52
Stskeepsfinishing my masters degree09:52
ZakkmN800oh wow09:52
ZakkmN800that must take long.09:52
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Stskeeps6 years (i am one year behind)09:53
ZakkmN800and to think my post secondary education will only be 2-3 years :)09:53
ZakkmN800most likely less09:53
Stskeepsthe 6 years go fast.09:53
ZakkmN800(in last grade of highschool)09:54
ZakkmN8001/3 of my life :)09:54
Stskeepsheh, i'm turning 25 and then im done with university and school, hopefully forever09:56
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Stskeepswas thinking of pursuing a phd but now i'm just dead tired of school.09:56
ZakkmN800i dont understand how people going for doctor and stuff do it09:57
ZakkmN800a good friend is mine is in uni now to become a surgeon, and im just thinking way too much school09:57
ZakkmN800this is so cool, n800 + xchat + usb keyboard09:58
ZakkmN800maybe i should get a bluetooth keyboard or soemthing, use in school09:59
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StsN801morn X-Fade10:47
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* X-Fade is thinking of distilling this QA discussion in a wiki page.10:52
X-FadeAnd then come up with a concrete plan of actually implementing the thing.10:52
timeless_mbpwhat's that?10:53
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Exactly ;)10:53
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timeless_mbpis it where people say "i don't think this is my bug, lemme give it to the next guy", the next guy says "oh, it's not my bug, invalid", the reporter says "but i didn't say it was your bug reopen", first guy "what priority should this have?", "please set a priority"10:54
timeless_mbpengineer who ignored qa "oh, i already fixed something like this (by doing the opposite of what was asked here, already fixed"10:54
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timeless_mbpqa "reporter, please verify this urgently"10:55
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Well, I guess we will start with: Works vs Doesn't work ;)10:55
timeless_mbpwith or without specs specifying what's expected? :)10:55
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timeless_mbpbtw, in case it wasn't obvious, while what i described above happens, it isn't QA, it's people who have been given a funny hat with "Quirky Actor" written on it (the lowercase letters are so small that no one can read them)10:56
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RST38hX-Fade: What discussion?11:07
RST38hX-Fade: Are there changes to bug processing coming?11:07
X-FadeRST38h: -developers11:08
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RST38hShit, the maemo community page is a total mess :(11:08
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RST38hFunny how none of the committee members thought of placing stuff that is actually being USED on top11:09
RST38hX-Fade: "QA from extras-devel to extras-testing" ?11:11
X-FadeRST38h: Yes.11:11
johnxthought the quality on extras was actually pretty good11:12
RST38hX-Fade: I agree with Matan that the whole discussion is ominous11:12
X-Fadejohnx: Well yes and no.11:12
RST38hCurrent Extras are pretty good as they are11:12
X-FadeThere are still some packages that are presenting themselves as user packages, but actually are not.11:13
RST38hX-Fade: Then deal with them on one-to-one basis11:13
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X-FadeMostly issues that could be spotted by some automated process and fixed by the developer when he/she even knew about it.11:13
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RST38hAutomatic scan + email + check for changes + removal if changes are not applied in 1 month time11:14
X-FadeAnd people are now able to upload system libs for instance, which breaks everything.11:14
RST38hAlso easy to check, if you have a list of base packages from Nokia11:14
X-FadeSo it is not to make it hard to upload, just some sanity checks really.11:15
RST38hAll this can be made invisible to the uploaders, no need for formal QA procedures11:15
X-FadeUploading an application which doesn't install doesn't make much sense.11:15
X-FadeAnd then there is testing the actual application.11:16
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johnxjeez, it's almost like you're trying to hit the reliability of a mobile phone OS or something :P11:18
X-Fadejohnx: Well, isn't that the eventual goal anyway? Now we are targetting tech people, but shouldn't we be targetting your mother in step 5?11:19
johnxhey, stay away from my mom. you're not even my real dad :P11:19
X-FadeHeh ;)11:19
X-FadeJust so say, we need to start somewhere to make it easy for the real end-users.11:20
johnxI'm all for it, just make real sure you don't chase away the power users and devs :)11:21
X-FadeAnd if someone managed to promote a sdl lib which breaks all games, this kind of kills the experience for most people.11:21
X-Fadejohnx: Powerusers should just enable extras-devel and be living on the edge always?11:21
RST38hX-Fade: There are basically two ways to do it11:22
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RST38hX-Fade: You can either let people upload more or less freely, run some automatic checks, and leave the rest to the Tentacled One11:22
RST38hX-Fade: Or you can assume Tentacled One's duties yourself (or delegate to some QA cabal) in which case the Extras will stay sparkling clean but people will start creating their own repos again11:23
X-FadeRST38h: Well there are multiple levels in this.11:23
johnxX-Fade, I think you might have something with a three tiered system actually. devel -> testing -> extras. extras-devel is scary/b0rken enough that even power users stay away11:24
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RST38hX-Fade: So it seems, but there is a threshold anyway11:24
timeless_mbphey, does vpnc still work in mer?11:24
X-FadeDevelopers would like their application to be available for everybody, and extras will be enabled by default.11:24
RST38hX-Fade: And whatever level you take, it will fall either above or below the threshold11:24
X-FadeIf a developer doesn't care, he can provide the package any way he likes. He will not get the same amount of downloads.11:25
RST38hX-Fade: Well, my guess is that with the open source stuff where developers are not making money, most of them will not care.11:25
johnxor certainly care a lot less11:25
X-FadeRST38h: You have to think of what the goal is of a developer.11:25
RST38hX-Fade: they simply won't got with the Extras distribution11:25
X-FadeIf you develop software, you want people to use it?11:25
RST38hX-Fade: I *am* a developer, I know what my goal is.11:26
X-FadeOr do you only develop for yourself?11:26
X-FadeThose are 2 completly different goals.11:26
glassX-Fade: some, make that many, oss devs don't really care about if anyone uses it or not11:26
RST38hX-Fade: And, as a developer, I can assure you that most free software developers do it for themselves11:26
johnxX-Fade, there are shades of grey in between11:26
glassX-Fade: and that gets us to what sucks about certain open projects11:26
RST38hX-Fade: And of course they all love other people using it, but not to the point of eating red tape11:26
johnx"I'd like to share, but if you make this too hard, then I'll post it on a forum and get on to the next cool hack."11:26
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X-Fadejohnx: Well, if everybody can download it easily, it certainly is an advantage for the developer?11:27
RST38hX-Fade: Only if they pay money :)11:27
RST38hX-Fade: Besides, they can download it just as easily from his own repo11:27
X-FadeA developer who doesn't care about people using it, will probably not make great software anyway?11:27
glasssome devs like that people use their soft even if it doesn't make money. just having users is motivating11:27
RST38hX-Fade: not true11:27
RST38hX-Fade: there are examples against that11:27
X-FadeRST38h: Why would you even publish your software if you don't care about people using it?11:28
johnxX-Fade, there's a certain amount of effort devs are willing to go through, and when the threshold is too high, they give up11:28
glassRST38h: name a few11:28
RST38hX-Fade: Because I have written it already11:28
RST38hglass: FAR11:28
RST38hX-Fade: Why not publish it?11:28
X-FadeRST38h: Yeah, but why do you want people to use it?11:28
RST38hglass: Search for far manager11:28
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RST38hX-Fade: I do not *want* people to use it, I *let* people use it11:29
RST38hX-Fade: See the difference?11:29
glassRST38h: far managers site is built so that it seems they want people to use it(care about it)11:29
RST38hglass: Look at the date the last update came out11:29
johnxjust look at all the stuff that's already on ITT but not extras11:29
X-FadeEverytime you publish something, you do an active thing.11:29
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RST38hX-Fade: Again not true11:30
johnxpiles of qwerty12's stuff was there (he did put it in extras once that got easier). Tear is ITT only for now11:30
glassRST38h: ach.  dunno. the app still looks like he cared that people would use it11:30
RST38hX-Fade: You mistake the act of putting somethign online with attention whoring11:30
X-Fadejohnx: Those are code drops labeled, worksforme but beware ;)11:30
RST38hglass: It is an excellent app11:30
RST38hglass: Not being very much cared for though11:30
johnxX-Fade, and they're more stable than some other things in extras ;)11:30
X-Fadejohnx: Well then people can install it from there.11:31
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RST38hX-Fade: They can, destroying the idea of a single repo11:31
X-FadeBut they will go to some warnings before installing in Fremantle.11:31
* RST38h has no problem with clicking on a warning11:31
johnxexactly. because those devs 1) wanted people to use their software, but 2) didn't want to put in the effort to push to extras or extras-devel11:31
X-FadeRST38h: Well if you care about that, then you should upload to that single repo.11:31
RST38hX-Fade: Care about what? A single repo? I do not11:32
X-FadeAgain, this is not about makeing it harder to upload. Just to get a better quality end result.11:32
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RST38hX-Fade: It is a nice-to-have, not a must-have11:32
johnxX-Fade, ok, I get that. It was just a friendly suggestion from me to be careful down this road not to put in any more roadblocks than absolutely necessary11:32
X-Fadejohnx: Those are the same developers that drop of the net regularly.11:33
RST38hX-Fade: Anyways, just to make my opinion known to the higher ups:11:33
RST38hX-Fade: 1) Implement some common sense automated checks and remove stuff that does not pass them11:33
X-FadeRST38h: To me is as high as you get and I'm at the same level as you are ;)11:33
RST38hX-Fade: 2) If a trusted 3rd party repo is absolutely needed, create a new one or promote packages into existing Nokia repo for 3rd party software11:33
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X-FadeRST38h: This is, not Nokia.11:34
X-FadeWe're not talking about Ovi store here.11:34
RST38hX-Fade: Well, you can always either talk to Nokia about it or create a new repo11:34
RST38hX-Fade: Oh, I was talking about that weird 3rd party software repo that Nokia already has enabled11:34
X-FadeRST38h: This has nothing to do with nokia. It is what we want.11:34
RST38hX-Fade: The one with skype etc11:35
X-FadeRST38h: Those are Nokia commercial partners. Nothing to do with maemo.org11:35
RST38hX-Fade: But nothing prevents Nokia from creating a free subbranch of that repo and adding checked packages there11:35
RST38hX-Fade: It will be both technically and logically correct11:35
X-FadeWe, the community, get one repository on every device which is enabled by default.11:36
X-FadeThis is Extras.11:36
X-FadeEvery other repository we add can be for hard-core users, no problem.11:36
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RST38hX-Fade: Well, then leave only checked packages in Extras and create a new repo for all the advanced users that is disabled by default11:37
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RST38hX-Fade: Just *not* call it Extras-devel which is a terrible mess11:37
johnxRST38h, extras-testing?11:37
RST38hor something like that11:37
X-FadeRST38h: This is what extras-testing is proposed for?11:38
RST38hX-Fade: You have to expect that most packages will be stored in that repo permanently, so no "testing" in the name11:38
RST38hX-Fade: I.e. it will completely replace the current Extras11:38
X-FadeRST38h: It won't as 99% of our downloads will still be from Extras ;)11:39
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RST38hX-Fade: It will, you will see11:39
RST38hX-Fade: See discussion above11:39
X-FadeRST38h: Community members are such a small drop in the total users count.11:40
RST38hX-Fade: It does not matter really. What matters is that once you fence off Extras, developers will stop trying to get there11:41
X-FadeMost people will just download through the Application Manager, or downloads catalog.11:41
RST38hSo, in order to keep developers in a single repo, you will need a permanent alternative to Extras11:41
RST38hWhether this alternative will be created by or some rogue developer is up to you :)11:42
X-FadeRST38h: Most developers are not like you ;)11:42
RST38hX-Fade: Oh, really? :)11:42
RST38hX-Fade: Check out penguinbait's rants on ITT :)11:42
X-FadeAnyway, Fremantle will have signed downloads presented differently.11:42
johnxplace your bets now gentlemen :)11:43
* RST38h is actually quite sane as far as averages go =)11:43
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RST38hActually, creating a new repo called Stars and enabling it by default in Fremantle may satisfy everybody11:44
johnxactually, in my mind, that would make a lot more sense11:44
RST38hIt will both look nice to the end users and create a sense of elitism for those who DO get into it11:45
johnxfor people who want to push the polish of their app, they have something to shoot for11:45
X-FadeWell, I think that Extr can easily serve that role. Without to many hassle for developers.11:45
johnxfor people who just want to share what they have and move on, Extras11:45
RST38hX-Fade: You won't be able to do what you want to accomplish without hassle11:46
RST38hX-Fade: And even if you have got a plan, some more managerial-minded characters will insist on lots of red tape11:46
X-FadeRST38h: We're talking about things like automatic time delayed promotion.11:47
X-FadeAnd only removing the package when there are serious problems.11:47
RST38hX-Fade: Ah, automatic would be ok, but the mailing list was talking abuot a QA team, 10 approvals, with even a single non-approval disabling promotion11:47
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X-FadeRST38h: 10 approvals or time delayed if nobody tested it.11:48
X-FadeSo it will only speed promotion up if people test it.11:48
RST38hX-Fade: time delayed by what amount?11:48
X-FadeRST38h: to be determined11:48
RST38hX-Fade: But this is the important part11:48
johnxRST38h, 1 miiiiillion years11:48
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X-FadeRST38h: Say a 2 week timeout. And when x amount of people thumb up, direct.11:49
RST38hX-Fade: It is a difference between "ok, lemme upload it and wait" and "lemme just publish it on ITT while it is waiting for approval"11:49
timeless_mbpwhat happens if 1 person thumbs down? :)11:49
X-FadeAnd we can even build up a certain trust level.11:49
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: We can check which person it is ;)11:49
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X-FadeAnd if one person flags down, the debmaster needs to check it himself.11:50
X-FadeEverything else will just go through?11:50
RST38hX-Fade: Does not sound like a good idea, really. Sounds like an attempt to break something not broken11:50
X-FadeRST38h: It is just to stabilize it a bit.11:50
RST38hX-Fade: So I would suggest a new repo called Stars and enabled by default, with promotion process up to public consideration11:51
X-FadeIf someone promotes a broken package now, Extras is instantly broken.11:51
RST38hWell, automatically check package dependencies11:51
X-FadeRST38h: Sure, but what about a broken post-install?11:51
RST38hAnd contents too, so that it does not overwrite other packages11:51
X-FadeYeah, so there are multiple things to test.11:52
RST38hX-Fade: well, I can suggets a way to check THAT too, but it is messy11:52
RST38hX-Fade: So in this case it may be better to just let it be11:52
X-FadeAnd then there is: drains battery in 4 hours because it installs a deamon.11:52
RST38hAnd then there is: shows nude women every 15 minutes11:53
X-FadeThings like that can be spotted by manual installs.11:53
X-FadeRST38h: ;)11:53
RST38hAnd then there is: contains the lyrics of Jignle Bells (copyrighted)11:53
RST38hAnd then there is: calls maemo community council member an idiot, in high-pitched gay voice11:53
johnxRST38h, which app is that, with the nude women? I need to test that ... to protect the users...11:53
RST38hAre you gonna filter THEm ALL? :)11:53
RST38hjohnx: ! Here is the first business model for NIT software =)11:54
RST38hWas that AStorm who insisted that selfless people can't be evil? :)11:55
RST38hjohnx: hell, I was just going to suggest python for that =)11:55
suihkulokkiIsn't microb the app with all the nude women?11:55
johnxplease feed a crumpled up 5 dollar bill into the sd card slot to continue11:55
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RST38hX-Fade: BTW, if you want to make sure nobody pushes a virus through postinst, let me know11:58
johnxRST38h, you've developed a turing oracle?11:58
RST38hX-Fade: there is an automatic way to check for that although you may not like the complexity of it11:58
RST38hjohnx: ah it is way simpler11:58
X-FadeWell we have no kill switch to kill the app on a user's device.11:59
X-FadeThe only thing we can do is remove it from the repo.11:59
RST38hyou do have it11:59
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X-FadeOr offer an updated version ;)12:00
RST38hpush a system update that diables the app12:00
RST38hor that12:00
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X-FadeBut that still requires the user to do something.12:00
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johnxI hope it doesn't reach the point where we're putting out fires like that already... :/12:00
RST38hyea, requires him to run system update12:04
RST38hor install it from app manager12:04
timeless_mbpsuihkulokki: yep12:04
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timeless_mbpjohnx: if you want to test, try
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: you have to offer a package 'maemo-blacklist'12:05
timeless_mbpwhich is updated periodically and conflicts with other packages which are blacklisted12:05
johnxto see how the browser deals with scrolling huge images?12:05
timeless_mbpjohnx: well... to see how the browser deals w/ a lot of images12:06
johnxtimeless_mbp, not sure how apt would behave in that situation12:06
timeless_mbp(i.e. running out of memory)12:06
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Indeed, that can be one solution.12:06
johnxyou could probably do some really "clever" apt pinning to make the conflicting app always chosen12:06
timeless_mbpyou need to make sure it works of course12:07
johnxwow, that's a lot of images12:08
johnxkeeping firefox plenty busy on my desktop12:09
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suihkulokkiwe already trust that apt doesn't remove osso-software-version I guess the maemo-blacklist would be protected the same way12:10
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X-Fadesuihkulokki: Well is can remove o-s-v easily ;)12:11
johnxyou mean as soon as someone uses apt-get instead of h-a-m it's history?12:11
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suihkulokkiah, so o-s-v is just to protect endusers, not geeks :)12:12
X-Fadesuihkulokki: yep. there is an o-s-v-unlocked for geeks too.12:12
johnxtimeless_mbp, will check how tear handles that in a couple minutes12:13
timeless_mbpjohnx: grading system 1. Fail if device reboots12:13
timeless_mbpi've killed a number of boxes running various os's w/ that page12:14
timeless_mbpa bunch of phones, an oqo, a fbsd box (years ago)12:14
RST38hjohnx: I do not consider this a catastrophe really12:14
RST38hjohnx: As long as there is a way to quickly remedy any problems, should be fine12:15
johnxyeah, not a big deal, just had to comment about trusting apt not to remove o-s-v12:16
RST38hsuihkulokki: Funny, I have just removed osso-software-version with apt =)12:16
X-FadeRST38h: Only matters if you want software updates ;)12:17
RST38hjohnx: It can probably be protected by some means, for example it can create some files in postinst that apt won't know about12:17
X-FadeYeah, great typing today... ;)12:18
RST38hX-Fade: see above =)12:18
johnxRST38h, there's easier ways, but it's mildly intrusive (read: annoying) to power users12:18
RST38hjohnx: yea, but o=s=v I can live with, personally12:18
RST38hjohnx: As long as there is an unofficial way to get around it in dire need of course :)12:18
johnxRST38h, you just tell apt: always resolve deps in such a way that this package stays installed. It's called pinning12:19
RST38hjohnx: But THIS can be overridden with apt options, not?12:19
johnxonly if you're *very explicit* about what you want to do, which I belive is the goal12:19
johnxright now it's set up so that apt will remove o-s-v at the drop of a hat12:20
johnxto change the pinning you edit the config file -or- directly specify some really long-ass option on the apt command line12:21
RST38hShould work then12:21
johnxwe were getting people on itt who knew how to use apt-get but were confused about why it wanted to remove o-s-v12:21
johnxit would actually be nice if that was just a *little bit* harder :)12:21
RST38hIf people continue freaking it out, just create files in postinst12:22
RST38hThen there truly won't be a way to kill it with apt12:22
johnxRST38h, nah, that's intrusive beyond reason. Then you're just fighting users, not guiding them12:22
RST38hjohnx: it is just one spot, with good reasons for it12:22
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RST38hFor this single spot, I have no problems12:23
johnxright but "apt-get --I-really-want-to-break-my-shit install b0rken-package" should be enough I think12:23
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johnxno need to have that succeed then have some postinst go and remove b0rken-package after it's already messed things up12:24
johnxplus it's nice to not bastardize apt more than is strictly necessary12:25
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RST38hof course nothing like this is gonna happen, we will just get Extras all redtaped =(12:26
johnxeh, like rats from a sinking ship, jump into Mer. :D12:27
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johnxthis is why they don't let me do marketing...12:27
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RST38hMer isn't an exit strategy12:29
StsN801off the plank, yarr!12:29
dl9pfStsN801: moin12:29
johnxRST38h, correct, but I couldn't resist the pun :>12:30
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* RST38h is trying to fix a test case =(12:46
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X-FadeStsN801: Photoshop release?13:02
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StsN801X-Fade, fullscreen webbrowser prolly13:06
X-FadeStsN801: No, I meant that the whole device is rendered.13:07
StsN801their q7 does have a 7" lcd though13:07
StsN801so there might be smth to their rendering13:07
StsN801the q5 is surprisingly smooth and well designed13:08
StsN801as is the box13:08
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roope4500mAh is a big-ass battery.13:20
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StsN801im not sure its for more than couch surfing / laptop like use13:21
StsN801the q5 has 2000mah13:21
roope7 inch for me is a dead size. If I want to couch surf, I get my 15" laptop.13:22
roopeThen again, 7 inch is awkward size to carry. It should be either bigger or then smaller.13:22
Shadow__Xits hard to find a good common ground13:22
Shadow__Xbecause as things get bigger just get a real laptop13:22
StsN801my laptop gets too hot for couch surfing13:22
Shadow__Xpersonally i cant use a 7-10 inch laptop13:23
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Shadow__Xi plan to get a macbook to replace everyday uses13:23
StsN801a fully hackable 7" tablet is interesting though13:23
Shadow__Xand possible get a new tablet13:23
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radicwhere are the words for the auto completation stored?13:47
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lcukroope, 7" is very nice size for a photo frame for your grandparents though14:09
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RST38hStskeeps <--- stealthily trying to make me buy a SmartQ with all this stuff =)14:19
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StskeepsRST38h: hehe14:20
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lcukStskeeps, its lacking in a few essential features tho14:21
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* lcuk really likes the basic idea :)14:21
Stskeepslcuk: like?14:21
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lcukcamera, keyboard14:23
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Robot101Stskeeps: moo to you too :P14:27
StskeepsRobot101: sorry :)14:27
Stskeepslack of coffee and tab completion isn't good14:27
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Stskeepsuh. :P15:00
xnt :P15:00
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* xnt would take a 770 over this any day15:01
lcukwheres the Fn in that15:01
Stskeepsxnt: i actually have a smartq 5 MID.15:01
Stskeepsit's so hackable.15:01
xntcan it run, ume?15:02
Stskeepsxnt: it runs ubuntu by standard, runs mer, etc15:02
Stskeepsthe screen on the Q7 is the same as on some Asus EEE15:02
* xnt researches...15:02
Stskeepssearch SmartQ on iTT15:03
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Stskeepsbut yeah, Fn key is a bit mysterious..15:03
Stskeepstrust me, you'd take this one over a 770 ;)15:04
Stskeeps(the q7)15:04
Stskeepsexcept if you love your dpad :P15:04
xntok :)15:04
xntis it x86?15:05
Stskeepsno, arm15:05
Stskeeps(the q5 i mean)15:05
xntso h ave you gotten mer on it?15:05
Stskeepsthe q7 is similar hw15:05
xntRun Fremantle on it :P, it has a gpu15:06
Stskeepsyes, but no 3d drivers15:06
Stskeepsget me a person with a samsung nda, heh15:06
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xntoh wait that doesn't work anymore :P15:07
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xnthow much is it?15:08
* xnt reads
* xnt might buy15:09
Stskeeps.. yeah, if you can get it in the US15:09
Stskeepsi got mine donated by the company15:09
xnthow big is it?15:09
Stskeepstinier and lighter than a n80015:09
Stskeepsbut same screen size15:09
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Stskeepsyeah, so much import that i had to make a makeshift power plug convertor :P15:09
* xnt might use this as a remote for his future lmce system15:10
* xnt searches ebay15:10
xnt|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 ???15:11
xntWait its chinese only?15:11
Stskeepswith Mer? no15:12
Stskeepsalso, you can always open a terminal and edit the locale15:12
xntoh so default os = chinese15:12
Stskeepsno keyboard15:12
woglindesdk has no findutils15:12
xnt:(  / :)15:12
xntwhat mlocate?15:13
xntor find?15:13
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* xnt <3 mlocate :P15:13
woglindemlocate wont work inside sdk15:13
xntvery fast15:13
xntmaemo 5 or 4?15:14
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woglindenow it works15:15
xnt this?15:15
xntok :)15:16
woglindeseems I was to fast15:16
* xnt needs to go through maemo garage again, I haven't gone there in like a month15:16
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lcukwoglinde, in computing theres not such thing as too fast :P15:17
lcukyou simply had lag15:18
woglindeist okay15:18
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andre__eheh. got a first request to clone a bug report from internal to external instead of the other way round. nokia can be funny15:45
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X-Fadeandre__: Can you try to make a case of moving all hildon and modest bugs to the public bugzilla?15:46
X-Fadeandre__: As they are public projects now :)15:46
Stskeepsi concur15:46
andre__while i whole-heartly agree that that would be awesome, it's not that easy :-/15:46
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X-Fadeandre__: No, I guess that will be hard. Although moving some parts to the public one should be doable.15:47
X-Fadeandre__: A rule like: public bugzilla by default, unless it contains sensitive info..15:47
andre__e.g. it would require all involved people to also have accounts in bmo, and there will be comments added (e.g. from testing) that are not meant for public because they sometimes reveal infrastructure and/or hardware information :-/15:48
X-Fadeandre__: Things like, save button is insensitive when in this and this dialog... Should just be in the public one?15:48
andre__of course, the issue itself is totally fine for public bugzilla15:48
andre__but correctly *dealing* with the report will require huge changes in nokia's internal workflow15:49
andre__but it might be a good time to start another push into that direction, yeah15:49
X-Fadeandre__: Well yeah, but they started to move on the path when they decided to open the code.15:49
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X-Fadeandre__: You are open, or you aren't..15:49
andre__it's not that black and white :)15:50
andre__i totally agree with the aim15:50
andre__but it's way more complicated :-/15:50
andre__but yeah. time to push it again and get some people into thinking about this again.15:51
X-Fadeandre__: It would mean that device testing and things like that should be done somewhere else.15:51
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andre__...which is currently well integrated in the internal bugtracker15:51
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X-FadeYeah, well there needs to be a change anyway ;)15:52
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andre__definitely something for me to think about tonight again while having a beer. but you can imagine, every company has some people that are pushing to get more open, and some people that want to avoid any changes in their workflow ("it has always worked fine for us like this").15:53
lcukX-Fade, glad i caught you (but i might have to vanish) is it possible to get clean simple exports of certain kinds of data from the m.o (such as user avatars with actual userjpg style filenames instead of UID keys15:53
andre__so sometimes argumentation must be well-prepared and show the advantages (the latter is very important)15:54
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X-Fadeandre__: Well with starting to moving things in the open, higher management has already decided that things change. Hard to argue with that ;)15:54
andre__well. i don't tell you anything new here. so conclusion: oh yeah, let me try to move it into the open. somehow. :)15:54
X-Fadelcuk: For avatars it is hard as I don't think we have the originals.15:55
andre__higher management *accepted* it because some developers pushed this, that's my impression15:55
X-Fadeandre__: Well in any case, it happened.15:55
andre__yupp, and that's a good first step15:55
X-Fadeandre__: So now things need to be adjusted to make sense :)15:55
lcukX-Fade, but in the user list you already do a lookup to get username, and then show his image - if there were a couple of out of the way places to get this raw information,  tell you what it will be easier to show you in the next few days15:56
lcukive got a minimal version already, but its crabby and only shows a glimpse of what im aiming for :)15:56
X-Fadelcuk: You would have to explain your use-case better...15:56
lcukill show it you, picture worth a 1000 words and all that15:57
lcuknot now tho lol15:57
lcukyou will have to wait :P15:57
X-Fadelcuk: story of my life ;)15:58
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lcukive apparantly lost the ability to take screenshots from within liqbase (code bug deep in the event handler goosed up) so i cant just run and show u15:59
RST38hmoo lcuk15:59
RST38hAre you now retargeting liqbase as a custom interface to =)16:00
lcuknow, was just wanting to get some images that meant something to us all :)16:01
lcuktheres a few other exports as well i might want, but i might be able to do without exports16:01
lcukno ^16:01
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lcukanyway, back to stuffs16:02
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GAN800Yeesh, I can't believe what I'm seeing re non-free stuff on the lists. . . .16:18
GAN800andre__, is that a new address. . . .16:19
andre__GAN800, hmm? what do you refer to?16:20
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andre__nope. i just set the missing qa defaults for three bugs16:21
andre__that address existed before already16:21
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GAN800ah, ok16:22
andre__nothing worse than before ;-))16:23
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RST38hWhoever wants and/or in a "dark" color scheme, vote here:
RST38hAnd leave comments16:39
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GAN800X-Fade, just so you know, your reply to 4417 was, apparently, 'hostile'.16:53
X-FadeGAN800: Huh?16:54
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X-FadeGAN800: I just asked if they could test something? Didn't close it with WORKSFORME or anything like that?16:55
X-FadeGAN800: Doesn't work?16:56
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X-FadeGAN800: Sigh..17:00
RST38hX-Fade: Well, to be frank, the login system is somehow screwed up even withough web cache17:01
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X-FadeRST38h: Whatever device I use, PCs, other connections, friends and family. It always works for me.17:02
RST38hX-Fade: Can't explain the exact behaviour at the moment, but it takes usually takes me several attempts to login from home (no cache)17:02
RST38hX-Fade: Maybe I am doing something wrong?17:02
X-FadeMy guess is that the server doesn't send cache-invalidate headers./17:03
RST38hX-Fade: Sometimes I have to manually add "s" to "http" for it to register my login17:03
X-FadeRST38h: You should never have to do that.17:03
RST38hX-Fade: You mean, the page gets stuck in the local FF cache?17:03
X-FadeIt probably means that you got a server side or client side cached page.17:03
RST38hX-Fade: Well, then something is wrong on the server side17:04
X-FadeAnd clicking through to some pages where you haven't been before would probably show that you in fact are logged in.17:04
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RST38hX-Fade: Yes, sometimes17:04
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RST38hBut something is definitely wrong with logins17:04
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X-FadeFunny thing is, I really can't reproduce it at all.17:05
X-FadeAnd believe me, I tried.17:05
X-FadeI have multiple accounts, new, admin. Everything just works fine for me.17:06
RST38hMaybe when it sees you it always logs you in by default? :)17:06
RST38hBTW, this crap occurred to me with the "old" design but then it went away after you fixed something17:07
X-FadeNo, I have lots of browsers installed and flushed caches. It always takes only one attempt and the page that comes up after login shows my name.17:07
RST38hIt resurfaced with the new design, although not sure if it has got the same cause17:07
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GAN800Ah, Texrat is in in it now.17:08
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* GAN800 tries not to shoot barbs in his direction.17:08
X-FadeGAN800: But anyway, I've read the bug comment again. And I can't find anything hostile in there.17:08
GAN800X-Fade, because there's not.17:08
RST38hX-Fade: "WORKSFORME" keyword sounds hostile17:08
* RST38h ducks17:09
X-FadeRST38h: It is not in there?17:09
GAN800qole took the poster's claim of 'smoking something' at face value.17:09
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RST38hnow, that's childish17:10
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X-FadeAnd even worse for a council member.17:11
GAN800itT is a mess these days17:11
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GAN800and Quim was proposing closing -community in favor of it. . . .17:12
RST38hGAN: That will make one mess from two, good idea IMHO :)17:13
GAN800You're losing an awful lot of good contributors moving it to itT17:14
X-FadeI think we just need to add a 10 second counter after each post.17:14
GAN800Whatever your personal bias is.17:14
X-FadeAnd then ask if the person still wants to post  the comment ;)17:14
RST38hPossibly, yes...17:14
RST38hMaybe creating some limited kind of a gateway would work17:15
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RST38hMaybe gate -community postings into ITT but not the vice versa?17:15
RST38hyo lardman17:15
lardmanhi RST38h17:15
GAN800I want to see the vBulletin mailing list integration.17:16
X-FadeI just think it is sad that people always have to add emotions into simple technical discussions.17:16
RST38hX-Fade: People have agendas17:16
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RST38hX-Fade: And, when it comes to look-and-feel, things become highly subjective17:16
X-FadeRST38h: "Can you test this" is not really something to get emotional about? :)17:17
RST38hNow, what I do not understand, is why the website/forum guys do not just implement what forum members are asking them, at least in some limited form17:17
RST38hX-Fade: I am afraid the login thing is so overheated because of the overall feeling about the website17:18
RST38hX-Fade: it is interpreted as "bad layout, weird colors, all familiar pages lost, and I can't even login" or something like that17:18
X-FadeRST38h: Waste of energy, really.17:19
* RST38h vividly remembers some guy in Logan attacking an airline representative17:19
RST38hAfter the airline lost his luggage and kept him in the terminal for two days. Approximately the same shit happsn on itt17:20
woglinderst was he shoot down?17:21
woglindeargs maemo python has not xml.minidom17:22
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RST38hwoglinde: naaah, it was before 9/1117:23
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digidietzeDoes anybody know how I can reach a webmaster of
X-Fadedigidietze: I have an idea, yes ;)17:34
digidietzeI left a post on the Developer forum about pic uploading two days ago17:35
digidietzebut have got no hint or help yet17:35
X-Fadedigidietze: Let me look it up.17:36
digidietzeGreat, thanks!17:36
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lardmandigidietze: webmaster@ ...?17:36
X-Fadedigidietze: Tip: always just state your problem in your mail.17:37
lardmanworked for me anyway a few times17:37
X-FadeNot "where can I find the webmaster" :)17:37
X-Fade*in your subject.17:37
digidietzeOK. Got it.17:37
X-Fadedigidietze: But it is a known problem and I have asked bergie to look at it.17:37
lardmananyone seen an RDS manipulation lib in the new beta release?17:38
digidietzeThat's news. I thought there were only two17:38
lardmans/beta/SDK beta17:38
X-Fadedigidietze: I think the index field which contains the screenshot names for those applications is corrupted, but we have to find out what it is exactly.17:39
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digidietzeIt might have helped if there had been a confirmation about the problem on; I would not have inquired further17:41
X-Fadedigidietze: Well, one tip there too. Please add only one problem per bug.17:42
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X-Fadedigidietze: User Login Quirks (and Upload Broken) is not a good way to describe the problem.17:43
X-FadeAs those can easily be problems that need to be handled by different people.17:44
X-FadeBut anyway, the login problem is another bug already and is being worked on.17:44
X-FadeThe upload problem is something that still needs to be looked at.17:44
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RST38handroid powered netbooks. mghm17:46
woglinderst yes17:46
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, are you abusing volunteers again? ;)17:46
woglinderumors since some time17:46
GeneralAntillesWho the hell would want to use Android in that formfactor.17:46
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Huh?17:47
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* RST38h has no idea either. It sounds strange17:47
GeneralAntillesSetting aside the question of "Who the hell would want to use Android?" of course.17:47
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, exactly. :P17:47
RST38hAt the very least, this thing would have to have SOME office apps17:47
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Hey, that was my line. Don't steal that ;)17:47
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Mikhowould someone know a solution for this? I'm trying to compile third party code, but the make process requires a stubs-32.h -file in /usr/include/gnu folder. The file is included in the libc6-dev package, but only in i386 version. The armel package doesn't have it. What can I do?17:48
RST38hSee what version of libc and gcc your armel sdk has?17:49
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* RST38h checks what this file is about17:50
RST38hMikho: Ok, your code has got -m32 or some other ia32 specific option in its makefiles17:52
RST38hMikho: You have to remove it, possibly by explicitely telling make what architecture you are compiling it for17:52
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digidietzeThe bug no. #4383 mentioned in the forum post was actually reported by someone else. I just added a comment to confirm it17:52
GAN800digidietze, be sure to add a vote to bugs you want to confirm.17:53
X-Fadedigidietze: Hmm yeah, your bug is duplicate to #4383.17:54
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X-Fadedigidietze: And the other part is duplicate to: probably ;)17:55
Mikhothe problem is just it's not my code17:56
Mikhobut I'll try to search for the -m3217:56
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digidietzeI did vote for the bug 4383 as soon as I saw it. And yes, you are right about multiple bug reporting.17:57
X-Fadedigidietze: Do you mind if I close your bug as duplicate and follow up on the others?17:58
X-FadeThat way we have 2 separate bugs tracking these issues.17:58
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digidietzeI thought I was first ... and there might be some information in the posts of this bug (4386)18:00
X-FadeYeah, but it is also a mess talking about all kinds of things ;)18:01
X-FadeAnd if you experience the problem with logging in to bugzilla too, then I'm certain that the problem is at you end.18:02
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X-FadeBecause that is a completely difference service, running on a different server.18:02
digidietzeOK, maybe I connected dots that are unrelated18:03
* GeneralAntilles doesn't feel like setting up a computer to work on the Bugzilla templates.18:03
digidietzeFeel free to close the bug. I'm comfortable with knowing that help is on the way :)18:05
X-Fadedigidietze: You should receive a bunch of bugzilla mails ;)18:05
GeneralAntillesI was watching some poor lady tote around a Kindle yesterday at the Apple store18:06
GeneralAntillesSeems like an awful lot of effort to carry an ebook reader.18:06
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Wait until you go on holiday and need to take about 3kg books with you like I do.18:07
lardmanX-Fade: +1 to that18:07
GeneralAntillesHooray, tablet.18:07
* RST38h uses a cell phone for that18:07
lardmanX-Fade: I'd be a bit worried about someone borrowing it if I leave it on the beach though18:08
GeneralAntillesI've managed to get digital copies of most of my textbooks for the past 3 years.18:08
* RST38h uses damn cell phone for pretty much everything nowadays, the thing even got chew marks on it18:08
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GeneralAntilleslol, and the Kindle just got bigger.18:09
GeneralAntilleslcuk, chew your nails much? :P18:13
digidietzeMy bugzilla problem is probably browser-related. Firefox worked fine. It smells like a cache problem of Opera.18:14
X-Fadedigidietze: Well, it can be that we don't send the correct cache invalidation headers.18:15
X-Fadedigidietze: But both FF and IE have no problems for me.18:15
X-Fadedigidietze: And my tablet works fine too.18:15
GeneralAntillesIs there any way we could make logins somewhat persistent?18:16
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: They are?18:16
GeneralAntillesI'm tired of having to login every time I want to heart/thumb something18:16
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I never have to?18:17
Stskeepsmy impression is that they aren't either, not sure why18:17
GeneralAntillesI'd love to be able to stay logged in for an appreciable amount of time.18:17
mikkov_my login is very persistent18:17
GeneralAntillesMoving between 3 machines regularly maybe doesn't help?18:17
X-FadeDo you clear cache close?18:17
RST38hX-Fade: I also have to relogin at random seemingly18:17
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X-FadeThere is a timout of a few days.18:17
X-FadeOr when your ip changes, I guess.18:17
X-FadeWhich mine never does.18:17
RST38hX-Fade: I do access the site from multiple IPs (work, home, mobile, etc)18:18
GeneralAntillesIP hasn't been changing, and it's definitely more often than once a day most of the time.18:18
RST38hX-Fade: Can you just store a cookie at each client and use that?18:18
RST38hITT seems to do that pretty well, too18:18
GeneralAntillesI don't really have any troubles on Bugzilla either.18:18
X-FadeBugzilla cookie expires in 2038 ;)18:19
* RST38h wonders if NITs will still be around18:19
mikkov_my bugzilla login times out in couple of hours18:19
GeneralAntillesOops, Reggie used "TALK"18:20
X-Fadethe TALK even ;)18:21
* GeneralAntilles files a few bugs.18:21
Stskeeps.seen qwerty1218:21
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RST38hBTW another weird feature about logins:18:22 and seem to have different records of me18:22
X-FadeDifferent host18:22
RST38htalk. reports me as "fms", shows my full name18:22
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, vBulletin doesn't have you fullname in its account info18:23
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GeneralAntillesThe accounts are separate from's18:23
RST38hok, so it is a different database of users?18:23
RST38hI see18:23
GeneralAntillesSame as the itT database.18:23
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, header TALK link can change.18:23
X-FadeJust a different skin on top of itt.18:23
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Let's wait a day so every dns has been updated.18:24
X-FadeDon't want more angry people ;)18:24
RST38h"Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete." <-- from itt18:24
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X-FadeReggie is just switching over, give him a few minutes ;)18:25
GeneralAntillesBut we want it now! ;)18:26
mikkov_yeah, now it's completely borked :)18:26
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RST38hGeneral: To complain about how it did not work 30 seconds ago? =)18:27
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RST38hHmmm...RTComm and Media are now developed at Bangalore?18:29
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X-FadeRST38h: Could be, there are a lot of job offerings there too?18:31
RST38hYep, almost exclusively there at the moment18:33
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RST38hThere is just one offering for US (Mountain View) which seems to deal with supporting exteranl parties (Adobe? =))18:34
GeneralAntillesReggie really does kick ass at Bugzilla18:34
GeneralAntillesWhenever we put together those Bugzilla report cards I'm giving him an "A+++++ would buy from again"18:35
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RST38hcannot convert parameter 1 from 'int' to 'U32'18:38
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RST38hcannot convert parameter 2 from 'U16' to 'U32'  <--- gcc went into bullshitting mode18:38
sjgadsbyGrr. This computer is too slow.18:40
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GeneralAntillessjgadsby, story of my life lately.18:43
sjgadsbyThat reminds me, how is your leaky Mac repair/replacement going?18:43
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GeneralAntillessjgadsby, dropped it off at the Apple store yesterday18:45
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GeneralAntillesThey gave me a parts list that totals out over $3000, so I called the customer relations guy yesterday to ask about a replacement again.18:46
GeneralAntillesHopefully he'll call me back at some point today.18:46
sjgadsbyHere's hoping you just get a new machine.18:47
GeneralAntillesI apparently copied down his extension incorrectly, and there are three people by that name at Apple.18:47
GeneralAntillesYeah, here's hoping18:47
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine they'd really prefer replacing the CPU assembly, motherboard, power supply, and case over just giving me a new machine.18:47
sjgadsbyAgreed. The repair doesn't sound to be worth their time or money.18:48
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, what would they not replace?18:48
RST38hGet a Gateway!18:48
* RST38h ducks, then hides quickly18:48
GeneralAntillesYeah, unfortunately the people in the store aren't enabled to do shit, apparently.18:48
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, because the CSR guy didn't authorize a replacement, he authorized a repair.18:49
ShadowJKNo I mean, what's left to replace after all that... harddrive and ram?18:49
GeneralAntillesGraphics cards, and a lot of little internal bits and pieces (fans, etc.) but, yeah, not much.18:50
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Graphics card, and a lot of little internal bits and pieces (fans, etc.) but, yeah, not much.18:50
ShadowJKOh I thought the fans would count as part of case :-)18:51
GeneralAntillesNah, most of them are modular.18:51
GeneralAntillesI will be so fucking happy if I can get a Mac Pro out of this, though. . . .18:51
ShadowJKFunny that if you buy a low-end brandname case you usually get a PSU too, preinstalled, but if you buy a high-end brandname case you usually get fans preinstalled and no psu :-)18:54
GeneralAntillesLot of people there yesterday with 1st gen iPhone with lines on the screen and no recourse but a $200 repair.18:54
ShadowJKwhat, warranty over already?18:54
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, yeah, but the PSU you get bundled with that case is rather likely to explode on you. ;)18:54
GeneralAntilles1-year warranty18:55
GeneralAntillesIn the ~1.5 years old range18:55
ShadowJKmine didn't explode, but it did see fit to auto-overclock my board by sending 6V down 3.3V line18:55
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GeneralAntillesIt's a 600watt PSU in my G518:55
ShadowJKBut the contract is longer than 1 year.. what are people, stupid?18:56
GeneralAntillesWell, they did buy iPhones. ;)18:56
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lardmanTalking about contracts, I had a chap on the phone today from TalkTalk asking me my name, address, dob, etc18:58
lardmanI told him no and he became quite upset18:59
ShadowJKWhat did he say?18:59
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lardmanand it turns out they wanted to offer me something like £15 for signing up for another 18months, as opposed to my keeping my existing rolling contract, hmm I wonder if I should take it.....? ;)18:59
lardmannot exactly enough to make me sign my life away for the next year and a half19:00
GeneralAntillesSee if you can talk him into giving you an RX-51. ;)19:01
lardmanlol, the funniest thing was that I offered to give my dob if he would tell me my account number, and he said he couldn't as with that information I could impersonate myself :D19:01
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: !19:01
ShadowJKhm :)19:01
ShadowJKtwo way challenge-response authentication :)19:02
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ShadowJKlardman, next time, offer him to sum up the numbers in your account number and DOB, and that if he gets it right you'll tell him your full DOB19:02
lardmanhmm, I'm not sure he'd have been able to manage that one19:03
lardmanGeneralAntilles: come on then, where are these new devices?19:03
lardmanI was thinking of getting one of those usb2vga adaptors for a minute there (for £30), but after some serious digging it looks like that chipset isn't supported19:04
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lardmanand the supported ones are ~£50 :(19:04
GeneralAntilleslardman, dunno, you tell me. :P19:05
lardmanoh, I thought that was a subtle hint about a TalkTalk tie in ;)19:06
lardmanAh well, fingers crossed for some time in July then19:06
MikhoI cannot find the -m32 flag anywhere in the code and nothing mentions stubs-32.h19:06
Mikhowhat kind of things could imply the use of stubs-32.h?19:07
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lardmanusing a 64bit compiler?19:07
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Mikhothe compiler i'm using is  cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm19:10
lardmanhmm, no idea then19:12
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Mikhonever mind...19:14
lardman./me heads for the cinema, see you guys later/tomorrow19:15
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Mikhothe problem was called the "always run make clean when you switch targets"19:15
Mikhoof course it used the object files I had compiled for i38619:15
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Mikho2 hours of work time completely wasted19:16
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RST38hMicro Focus is in the process of buying Borland Software for $75 million.20:41
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* RST38h drops a tear on the white carcass of Borland20:41
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lcukcareful RST38h the dna in that tear could bring them back20:46
RST38hnothing can bring 'em back20:48
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lcukthey say that at the end of every horror movie20:48
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RST38hthis horror movie ends with a cameo by Microsoft20:49
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radicIs it possible to use 3 akkus together?21:14
radicand could they charched by the n800?21:14
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LiraNunadoes b-man ever hang our here?21:29
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lcukyeah but later21:33
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Guest3410_089any idea about''official'' unbuntu mid?21:52
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* lcuk has happy pills22:18
lcukGeneralAntilles, yes22:19
lcukbut about 10% less at the moment22:19
GAN800lcuk, context?22:21
* GAN800 doesn't remember what he asked.22:21
lcukdo i chew my nails much22:21
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GAN800I can see why nail chewers might like using the stylus. ;)22:23
lcukheh yeah22:23
lcukwhat else am i gonna do if theres no bacon22:23
lcukhi woglinde22:24
lcukGAN800, did you see the pic then22:24
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GAN800Yeah, looks nice.22:24
GAN800I like the bruise moving up the finger.22:24
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lcukyeah - it reallllllly hurt this afternoon, i dropped my pen and instinctively reached out to grab it22:25
CutMeOwnThroatand the pen was a laser sword?22:26
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lcukno CutMeOwnThroat - it might not be so ironic if it was22:26
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* sjgadsby thinks lcuk has taken his quest for a free RX-51 a bit too far.22:28
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lcukshame it got me nowhere lol22:29
lcuktalk. is starting to look a little easier on the eyes - improved muchly once the meta data calmed down and titles stopped repeating22:30
sjgadsbyEh, file an enhancement request to add "Bled for Nokia" to the karma calculation. At least your position will rise in the developer device program.22:30
sjgadsbyYes, now it's just the topics that repeat.22:31
lcukwell sjgadsby i said i would give my right hand to be involved :P  i really didnt think they would take it literally22:31
lcukbbl anyway its easier to type now, but theres 2 of everything22:32
sjgadsbyThe Finns are a very literal people.22:32
GeneralAntillesI'm just glad we managed to dodge the searching flamewar when overfloat brought that one up.22:35
GuySoftoh my.. i just found out someone in the world hates me22:35
sjgadsbyOnly one person, GuySoft? You're not trying hard enough.22:36
GuySoftsjgadsby, no its really a strange one - let me tell22:36
GuySoftok.. so i get this strange comment on my latest blog post about the nokia-sugar thing22:36
GeneralAntillesSeriously, if you're not getting at least one hate mail a week, you aint doing it right. ;)22:37
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, you managed any bugzilla hatemail yet?22:37
sjgadsbyNo, no hatemail yet.22:38
GuySoftthat says something like "thank you so much" and points to a really strange URL, its a wordpress blog with a lot of links to software downloads.. while i am not sure if to approve the comment i google the url of the blog: .. when i googled it i understand why the guy hates me22:38
Stskeepsah, heh22:39
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, ah, too bad. That freejazz character sent me death threats.22:39
* sjgadsby is impressed.22:39
GuySoftill try to sum up: when you google this guys blog, you get mine..22:39
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GuySoftso he commented on my blog with a link..22:40
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GuySofti mean, i can imagine how annoying it is to him. supose i google: ,. and googles says back: Did you mean:  Top 2 results shown22:41
GuySoftthats what the poor guy gets..22:41
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derfGuySoft: I doubt he hates you... he just wants you to post the link so increase his PageRank.22:43
GuySoftderf, but i am against spamdexing.. i preach about it to all the morons that come to me and say they want to advance their website in google22:44
GuySoftah! the irony!22:44
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CutMeOwnThroatGuySoft, well, side effect of google ranking # of links over everything else (even spelling)22:46
CutMeOwnThroatboth :)22:46
CutMeOwnThroatanyway, googling urls is kinda stupid :)22:47
GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, i dono.. i just looked at this blog of his.. it has links to a lot of free software in a commercial website without attribution.. i am against that too..22:48
CutMeOwnThroatso whaddaya care22:48
GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, i tend to do ctrl+k ctrl+v instead of ctrl+l ctrl+v my mistake..22:49
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tank-mandelete his comment :)22:50
tank-mando it!22:50
GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, well i am just surprised i found out why.. i think ill have to listen to tank-man that goes with my logic22:51
CutMeOwnThroator change it to "my google-fu is weak"22:51
GuySofti mean CutMeOwnThroat just tried to convince me to help a spamdexer that links to software without attribution (and also CutMeOwnThroat proved he is stupid)22:51
GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, na.. i think the most evil thing i could have done if i wanted to, its just remove the url.. then when he searches his username it would also link to my blog22:52
CutMeOwnThroatI tried to convince you of anything?22:52
CutMeOwnThroatand yay, I proved that I'm stupid22:53
CutMeOwnThroatwonder how I did it22:53
GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, i thought you did when you said i shouldn't care. misunderstanding22:53
CutMeOwnThroat<GuySoft> oh my.. i just found out someone in the world hates me22:53
GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, we are all stupid.. look at my reply - i do it too22:53
CutMeOwnThroatI shouldn't wonder why you care?22:53
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GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, ya.. i guess i did , i am not sure if it passed by now..22:54
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GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, i think we better drop the subject.. i have to get back to my homework in electromagnetism (bloody dipoles)22:55
GeneralAntillesIf the h-a-m in the beta matches the internal release, what the HELL has that team been working on in the past year? . . .22:55
CutMeOwnThroatoh, didn't know you need blood to get electromagnets to work22:55
GuySoftCutMeOwnThroat, you need blood for the multipole derivation.. and a few forbidden items..22:56
GuySoft.. and i dont mean Taylor series22:57
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: Ovi Porn22:57
CutMeOwnThroatwell, go and sacrifice a goat, then22:58
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, seems like that would require work on h-a-m. . . .23:03
GeneralAntillesIf they're working on a separate applications I'm going to petition to have them all drawn and quartered23:04
paul0i've saw a OLSR port to N77023:07
paul0it will run on N800 (OS2008)23:08
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GeneralAntillesWe didn't even get any UI momentum going while we had the chance. . . .23:12
* GeneralAntilles sighs23:12
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GeneralAntillesWe need somebody to mock up some real tabs for Newstyle.
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lcukGeneralAntilles, wheres the link to these app categories things23:20
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GeneralAntilles~categories is
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles23:21
lcukthx, are those example apps canon?23:22
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, only to an extent23:25
GeneralAntilleslcuk, what's the real question?23:25
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lcuknothin lol, you answered it :)23:25
lcukdid you solicit translations for "Other"?23:26
GeneralAntillesYes, but Other isn't a valid category.23:26
GeneralAntillesThat's for packages with invalid categories ONLY.23:26
lcuki know other isnt a valid category, but it would need a translated tag23:27
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lcukmmm did you know "boston dynamics" lab used an n810 to control the Big Dog robot (the one that walked over anything and could be kicked and stuff)   - at least they show one in the advert23:56
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Proteousthat's cool23:58
GeneralAntillesVeeery interesting23:58
GeneralAntillesThat thing is loud as all get out, though.23:58
lcukyeah thats the genny23:59
lcukthey should replace it with an rtg23:59

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