IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-05-07

lcuksilence at the expense of extra limbs!00:00
GeneralAntillesThey need to get a Honda powerplant00:00
GeneralAntillesThose things are silent.00:00
RST38hthat is the gasoline engine they are using00:00
RST38hbesides, do you really want It to approach silently behind your back? =)00:01
lcukit should drag a chain behind it and let out a low tense breathing sound00:01
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GeneralAntillesIt's like painting a giant bullseye on the squad00:01
lcukit depends where it would be used00:02
GeneralAntillesSquads like that don't generally move around in areas where combat isn't a possibility.00:03
* RST38h suspects that is NOT what will be used, but THIS will:
GeneralAntillesThe average pack load has gotten pretty ridiculous in recent years.00:04
GeneralAntillesFor carrying cargo?00:04
RST38hFor hitting targets00:04
lbtQt now runs on Mer ;)   I hereby declare it day-2-day usable.... ;)00:04
RST38hIsn't this what people with guns were originally for?00:04
GeneralAntillesThe big dog is for carrying cargo.00:05
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RST38hYea, I know00:05
GeneralAntilleslbt, xserver work yet>00:05
RST38hAll I mean is that it makes more political sense to use small plane airstrikes instead00:05
GeneralAntillesEh, they tried initially in Iraq00:06
GeneralAntillesFact of the matter you need troops on the ground00:06
RST38hOnce you place people on the ground, you have got a potential PR problem on your hands00:06
RST38hGeneral: Depends on what you want to do. If you want to occupy places then yes00:06
RST38hOccupying Iraq or Afghanistan is pretty stupid though.00:07
GeneralAntillesNationbuilding silliness is about as stupid as it gets00:07
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lcukOMG @ what quim just realised00:08
RST38hGeneral: Exactly00:09
RST38hAnd if US wants to hit a bunch of towelheads, the Predator and/or marines will do the job with minimal potential damage00:10
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StsN800lcuk: its official: is bad for your fingers.00:11
johnxlbt, congrats. very cool.00:13
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lbtjohnx: thanks ;)00:15
lbtit works well00:15
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GeneralAntillesJust a heads up to Mer developers. I'm going to find a new thing to harp on until everything is 100% feature-complete compared to Maemo, so don't get disheartened by it. :P00:19
lcuk:D lbt, so the gradient thingy slicing bug is cured, or this is that it made it through obs?00:19
lbtthis is the 'old' version using css00:19
lbtcss didn't have the bug00:20
lcukyeah, i meant the version of qt00:20
lbtOh, Qt still has the bug for gradients00:20
lcukdid obs take much wrangling?00:20
lbtI just don't use that kind of gradient00:20
lcukyeah completely understandable00:20
lbtstupid bug in xargs00:20
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lcukahhh yeah i heard you mentioning00:21
lbtand qt-dev tries to setup scratchbox...00:21
lcuksomething about 48.9k vs 50k or something00:21
lbtstupid stupid stupid bug00:21
lbtyeah args_max00:21
lbtmax chars on a command line00:21
lcukoff by 1?00:21
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lbtoff by 23094500:21
johnxGeneralAntilles, depends on how you harp on them. :P00:21
lcukis that arm specific thou?00:22
lcukor something generally00:22
lcukin the config00:22
GeneralAntillesjohnx, anytime somebody mentions day-to-day usable. ;)00:23
lbtxargs/qemu I think00:23
lbtmaybe sysconf is to blame?00:23
johnxGeneralAntilles, everyone has their own metric :P00:23
lcukdunno, dun care - you solved it :D00:23
lcukwhich is a win00:23
GeneralAntillesAnybody have a better history on that issue? Sounds like a pretty intense metric.00:23
GeneralAntillesjohnx, mine is the shitty xserver at the moment. ;)00:23
GeneralAntillesOnce that's fixed, it'll be the finger keyboard00:23
johnxGeneralAntilles, finger keyboard should come as soon as Nokia gives us source (or is that source out already?)00:24
GeneralAntillesDunno if it was included in the beta00:24
lbtvirtual keyb you mean?00:24
johnxyeah, the software "finger" keyboard (as opposed to the software "stylus" keyboard)00:25
lcukdo you have one with extra extra big keys? :$00:25
GeneralAntillesFinger keyboard is what I mean00:25
* lbt is ignorant00:25
GeneralAntillesThe virtual keyboard is the half-screen stylus keyboard00:25
GeneralAntillesThe finger keyboard is the fullscreen keyboard00:26
GeneralAntillesThe hardware keyboard is the hardware keyboard00:26
johnxthough even in Nokia they don't seem to be entirely consistent in naming00:26
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GeneralAntillesWhich is why we have to be. ;)00:26
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lcukhow are bluetooth keystroked registered - ie from bluemaemo to another nokia device?00:27
GeneralAntillesBluemaemo is a serial keyboard00:27
GeneralAntillesMost are HID00:27
lcukjust another definition00:28
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penguinbaitlcuk, I loaded liqbase after watching the video, is that version available somewhere?  Is this your next version?00:38
lcukyeah, its the one im working on right now00:39
penguinbaitI love the drawing program, I used it in a meeting to design some virtual servers today, it was cool00:39
lcukme too :)00:39
lcuki just like drawing over everything00:40
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penguinbaitwhat new functionality is coming in new version?00:40
penguinbaitand when do you anticipate it will be done?00:41
lcukhopefully quite a bit00:41
lcuki just noticed its not a priv server anymore00:41
lcukkeesj has posted a git clone of it00:41
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penguinbaitlcuk, you said your using gcc on tablet, do you also have autoconf and make?00:43
lcukno autoconf not dpkg-buildpackage00:43
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VDVsxlcuk, bluemaemo use the bluetooth hid profile00:55
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lcukyeah VDVsx i meant how does the other end distinguish input as differently to virtual/finger/hardware keys00:57
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VDVsxlcuk, is like a usb keyboard, the bluetooth link send the commands to the kernel and the kernel redirect them to the normal usb-hid control :P01:00
lcuki know..01:00
VDVsxso should be seen as hardware keystrokes01:00
lcukthat wasnt what i was getting at - basically gan mentioned 3 ways to get key input in, bluemaemo is a 4th01:01
VDVsxvirtual input = finger input01:01
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johnxand from an app point of view, bluetooth keyboard, usb keyboard and input from another device running blue maemo should be pretty much indistinguishable01:03
VDVsxlcuk, i.e I only see two input ways in the app, virtual keyboard (finger, stylues) or hardware keyboard (usb, bluetooth, device buttons)01:04
VDVsxjohnx, true01:04
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lcukgnite chaps01:08
VDVsxgnite lcuk01:08
johnx'night lcuk01:09
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penguinbaitQOLE (Quality of Life Enhancements)  how appropiate01:36
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GAN800penguinbait, always the classy one, eh?01:47
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lardmananyone have handy the link to the online browsable tablet kernel source?01:49
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luke-jrlardman: Diablo or latest OMAP Linux?01:50
lardmanah found it:
lardmanthanks though01:50
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lardmanI just got a useful reply back from (usb2vga people), which is nice01:59
GAN800Just buy it. :P02:00
lardmanI dunno which one though!02:00
lardmanI'm tempted by the 4-in-1 now as it has built in power, better than fiddling with powered hubs etc02:00
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lardmanno idea, but a chap on itt has got it recognised by that driver so one assumes so02:01
lardmanshame these companies don't publish a bit more info on the chipsets, even the usb ids would be better than nothing02:02
* lardman goes to put the recycling out02:03
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GAN800lardman's ultra-modern home doesn't generate any trash?02:04
GAN800ohshit! There it is, reductio ad Hitlerum
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lardmanGAN800: so much trash I have to split it into recycling and non, otherwise I can't get it all out in one go ;)02:08
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lardmannothing wrong with saluting victory....02:10
johnx'later all. off to SoCal for a couple days :D woo!02:11
GAN800Have fun02:11
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lardmanfyi this is what I was talking about:
johnxlardman, cool beans :)02:13
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[A2K]why i can not install python2.5-qt4?02:21
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[A2K]from extras-devel02:21
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[A2K]looks like python2.5-qt4-core is version 4.4.3-maemo9, but all other qt4 packages require -maemo702:22
[A2K]where to get python2.5-qt4-core_4.4.3-maemo7_armel.deb ?02:22
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GAN800Strict dependencies?02:24
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penguinbaitGAN800, did I do something?02:41
GAN800The personal attacks are nice.02:41
penguinbaiton who?02:42
penguinbaithow did I attack you?02:42
penguinbaitIf you would ave said GA, ok, I take that one02:42
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GAN800 /whois is your friend02:43
GAN800At least I manage to avoid personal attacks when discussing things with people02:43
zakkmwhats wrong with GA?02:43
lardmannight all02:43
GAN800and you think the council is creating a divide. . . .02:43
xnt14lardman: night02:43
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penguinbaityou want to replay the IRC logs from yesterday02:44
penguinbaitI liked the troll GA02:44
xnt14pb: wtf?02:45
penguinbaitI think that the council is creating a divide?02:45
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penguinbaitI think that the council is divided, when you are attaking qole02:45
penguinbaiton public forums02:46
GAN800There was no attack02:46
GAN800I was calling him out for denigrating a staff member for no purpose.02:46
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penguinbaitif you think so02:47
GAN800Re-read my post.02:47
penguinbaitI think you were denigrating him for no purpose02:47
Knirchyou called him out since he pointed out you saying bugzilla is not a suuport tool...  .. what?02:48
GAN800Then you need to read the bug02:48
GAN800Knirch, nah, earlier, the smoking comment response.02:48
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infobotKnirch meant: you called him out since he pointed out you saying bugzilla is not a suuport system...  .. what?02:48
penguinbaitOne of the responsibilities of being a council member is to not encourage discord when it's neither merited nor deserved02:48
GAN800penguinbait, do you think his comment towards X-Fade was justified?02:49
penguinbaitI guess I can see how you think this is appropiate comment to make to another council member02:49
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GAN800Was that justified or not?02:51
penguinbaitI guess send me the post I dont know I don't see it02:53
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GeneralAntillesPost #3202:54
GeneralAntillesWhich has since been edited.02:54
GeneralAntillesThe removed text is available in post #3402:55
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, this is the root of my beef with qole.02:55
GeneralAntillesI could see how you might think that it was an unjustified "attack" on my part if you didn't realize what the root of the discussion was.02:55
KnirchI don't get it02:55
GeneralAntillesKnirch, qole essentially accused X-Fade of being hostile to bug reporters.02:56
GeneralAntillesSee this bug for the "hostility"
GeneralAntillesjandmdickerson's post turned out to be a joke, but qole reacted as if there was actual hostility.
penguinbaitWell its hard to comment on any of this as I do not see X-fades remarks, only in your post02:58
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, please see his comment on bug #4417 which is linked above.02:58
GeneralAntillesThere is no hostility02:58
GeneralAntillesWhich is why I took issue with qole's post.02:58
KnirchI still don't get it03:00
Knirchhow is this relevant to the discussion in the forum03:00
Knirchthread hijackers!03:00
penguinbaitI am getting lost in all this, but, the fact is, you should have taken it offline with him, not tried to adminish him in the forum03:00
penguinbaitwhether he did or not,03:01
GeneralAntillesOpen is open03:01
GeneralAntillesI wasn't really prepared to let that sit in the open uncontested.03:02
GeneralAntillesperhaps I should have taken it up in private, but I generally don't think like that.03:02
penguinbaitYour not really prepared to let much sit GA03:02
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GeneralAntillesNot when someone is attacking somebody else without reason.03:02
penguinbaitIf it was any other member I would agree03:02
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, perhaps you need to set your bias aside then.03:02
penguinbaitBut I think as council members, it would have been better to take that offline03:02
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, and I'd appreciate if you could avoid personal attacks in the future03:03
penguinbaitme to GA03:03
GeneralAntillesas it doesn't nothing but break down discussions to bickering.03:03
penguinbaitI would appreciate it if you would stop03:03
GeneralAntillesWhat personal attack, exactly?03:03
penguinbaitYou came into this chat room yesterday and attacked me for 5 minutes straight03:03
GeneralAntillesI didn't attack you.03:04
GeneralAntillesAttacks look like this:
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GeneralAntillesYour definition of "attack" seems to be rather different from mine.03:06
penguinbait16 was perhaps an attack as I made you look like a troll, 14 was just the truth03:06
GeneralAntillesSounds like an opinion to me.03:07
GeneralAntillesBut, really, when you spend the past few days doing what you've been doing, you shouldn't expect mild responses.03:07
penguinbaitwhat have I been doing GA?03:08
penguinbaitsoliciting community support for my agenda?03:08
GeneralAntillespenguinbait, an awful lot of spewing of bile.03:08
penguinbaityou could learn from that?03:08
GeneralAntillesA lot of shouting, and a lot of attacks flinging left and right.03:08
penguinbaitSure GA, thats what happened03:09
GeneralAntillesClearly you and I don't see eye to eye (or even seem to be seeing the same reality. . . .)03:11
penguinbaitthis is true GA, but its not a new thing03:11
GeneralAntillesI just ask that you don't tear the whole place down while you're gathering your "community support"03:11
GeneralAntillesBecause you're doing a pretty damn good job at the moment.03:11
penguinbaitWhat I really want you to understand is that I am not alone, and we are not all wrong.03:11
penguinbaitSo its the people that are upset with the changes that were made that are tearing the community apart, not the changes themselves03:12
penguinbaitI personally think its neither the chanes nor the people asking for additional changes.  It is the response those people get when they attemp to request additional options that is ruining the community03:13
timeless_mbpfwiw, i'm flying west in <6hrs03:16
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timeless_mbpi'll be back eventually03:16
zakkmis the maemo danish weekend this weekend?03:16
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timeless_mbpthis is something else03:19
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sp3000have fun at your something else! :)03:58
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AndrewFBlackPBs poll nees another option I'm coming to forums less becuase of this thread
AndrewFBlackanyone have any comments on talks minimalist theme screenshots I've posted?04:14
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GeneralAntillesI didn't see the screenshots, were they in the first post?04:17
GeneralAntillesHum, wonder how heavy a gif would be for the header.04:19
AndrewFBlackI thought about it04:20
AndrewFBlackanyone have a photoshop file or a png of that file?04:20
GeneralAntilles~mo-logos is
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay04:21
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, I'd almost say it'd be nice to clone the rounded box style from, but it's really a waste of bandwidth and rendering time.04:25
GeneralAntillesIt's too bad WebKit chokes on the CSS boxes and they don't really work elsewhere04:26
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AndrewFBlacklol it had round boxes before but I removed them people everyone said it was wasted of rendering time04:29
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AndrewFBlack what you thing GeneralAntilles04:39
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* b-man starts installing Mer 0.1204:40
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AndrewFBlackb-man you tried using openoffice base on Mer yet?04:41
b-mannope, not yet04:41
AndrewFBlackwell I guess I'll just have to try it for myself04:41
AndrewFBlackgot a database at work I use daily and would love to use tablet with it04:42
* b-man wants to install gimp04:42
AndrewFBlacklol will it run?04:42
b-manyes XD04:42
* b-man made his ubuntu rescue menu with gimp on his tablet ;)04:43
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Andrewfblackthere back in a decent irc client04:49
AndrewfblackI give up on a free open source irc client on windows04:49
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zakkmmirc is windows only04:50
zakkmisnt it?04:50
* b-man doesn't ever use Windows04:50
b-manunless i'm forced lol04:50
zakkmxchat is a good alternate to xchat04:50
zakkmvery similar04:50
Andrewfblackyeah Mirc is windows I use several windows computers04:50
zakkmon tablet?04:50
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zakkmthat sounds really bad04:51
Andrewfblackxchat for windows is nice but its not free04:51
b-manindeed :P04:51
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AndrewfblackI was trying to stay open source and all on even windows when I can but I was using Berirc and it doens't evne have auto complete for peoples names04:55
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Maceri threw out my back and had to go to the ER04:55
Macerthank god we don't have national healthcare :)04:56
dhpgot a bit of a maemo question04:56
dhpnot sure how the input interface works..04:56
dhpi've got that python2.5-edje-demo keyboard installed.. i'd like to make it the default04:56
dhphow would I go about that?04:56
luke-jrAndrewfblack: my desktop system is 100% Free software04:56
luke-jrAndrewfblack: and FYI, X-Chat is Free always, even on Windows04:57
Andrewfblackluke-jr your right but the nice packaged windows install for xchat isn't free04:58
luke-jrAndrewfblack: no? so compile it yourself04:58
Andrewfblackwell I have things like gimp but I also have my photoshop depending on what i'm working on04:58
* Andrewfblack is to lazy04:58
luke-jrah, Windows is still stuck w GIMP04:59
AndrewfblackGeneralAntilles you around?04:59
dhpor does anyone know where I might start looking as to how maemo handles the onscreen vkbd ?05:01
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GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, vaguely.05:02
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, I'll see if I can do a gif with a real background.05:03
AndrewfblackI can05:03
Andrewfblackshouldn't matter should it?05:04
Andrewfblackimage looks like crap because I recolored it after I resized it05:05
Andrewfblackwas more of a quick how does this look kind of thing05:06
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, I wonder if it'd be worth putting the rest of the header links and left-aligning the logo at some point.05:06
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penguinbaitviva la community05:08
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GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, I'm thinking it might be worthwile to either remove or move some of the stuff in the top navbar05:10
GeneralAntillesIt's consuming a lot of space at the top of the page05:10
GeneralAntillesalternatively it may be easier just to move the whole block to the bottom05:10
GeneralAntillesYou know how the member name in the header on the regular Talk theme links to the user's "home" page?05:11
Andrewfblackwouldn't it suck to have to scroll all the way down for new post link05:11
GeneralAntillesThe subscriptions, buddy list, and user cp can probably be accessed from there05:11
GeneralAntillesI'm proposing that the Talk FAQ be dropped totally in bugzilla05:12
GeneralAntillesCan you reduce "Forum Home" to "Home easily?05:12
GeneralAntillesMaybe "New" and "Today" for New Posts and Today's Posts?05:12
GeneralAntillesand, actually, maybe unbold the whole thing.05:13
Andrewfblackwell if I drop FAQ, move subscrions and buddy list ot user cp, then shorten Forum Home,New Posts, and Todays post it should take up no more then one line05:14
GeneralAntillesYeah, that'll be good05:15
AndrewfblackMember list can go to user CP as well05:15
GeneralAntillesOK, look here:
GeneralAntillesSee how the forum list under each section is shown as a single box?05:15
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GeneralAntillesCan you make it match that easily?05:16
aspectis there a way to launch a 3rd-party virtual keyboard on pressing the middle d-pad button?05:16
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GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, I think I like the idea of sticking the whole navigation bar at the top (Community, Downloads, etc.) but for now, can you just left-align the logo?05:17
Andrewfblackyeah I can, you don't think nav bar will wait space?  Also do you want the orange bar under header?05:22
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, nah, I'm thinking if we can fit it next to the logo.05:22
GeneralAntillesOn the same line05:22
GeneralAntillesYeah, if it's one line it's fine where it is.05:22
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Andrewfblackso instead of looking like put all the top bar links on same line as logo05:25
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GeneralAntillessee if it can't be made to look somewhat similar to the navbar05:26
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AndrewfblackGeneralAntilles all your suggestions have been done except for nav bar so far05:42
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GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, cool, how's it look?05:45
xnt14Andrewfblack: ???05:46
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Andrewfblackxnt14 wow thats a old screenshot05:53
xnt14:P ok05:54
Andrewfblackhe was asking about minimalist theme05:54
xnt14I just found it while randomly surfing the interwebs :P05:54
Andrewfblacklol nice05:54
* xnt14 is compiling google chrome v8 on linux, and wonders why google chose scon over make (Why google why...) :P05:55
xnt14v8 = google chrome js engine05:55
AndrewfblackGeneralAntilles was to lazy to do this one in tablet but you get the idea
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Pavlovtracemonkey is faster on arm05:58
xnt14Pavlov: im just testing it out, firefox ftw :)05:59
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Andrewfblackwow minimalist is looking good06:04
* Andrewfblack doesn't feel bad talking his own project up06:06
Pavlovxnt14: its actually pretty cool, its getting faster and faster06:07
Pavlovon arm06:07
xnt14:) ,yup now if only we could put chromium on Maemo or Mer... :P06:08
fireunor even a V806:11
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Macerfuck chromium06:15
Macerit's wine06:15
fireunare you thinking of chrome?06:16
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pferrillAnyone have the Maemo 5 SDK up and running on Ubuntu 9.04?06:29
pferrillI'm getting errors when I try to install the Nokia Binaries in the x86 host06:30
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zakkmwhy is it when i press the power button on my nokia, i dont get the menu popped up anymore ( newest diablo )06:42
xnt14night everyone06:45
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zakkmwhats a good pdf reader for nokia? ( textbook pdfs )06:46
aspectzakkm: I like xournal, cause you can scribble on them06:48
zakkmit can read pdfs?06:48
luke-jrzakkm: I use Okular06:48
zakkmon nokia?06:49
luke-jrgood old Okular06:49
zakkmits been ported?06:49
zakkmi liked it on desktop06:49
zakkmi need one for maemo :P06:49
luke-jrI run Gentoo06:49
zakkmi use mac on desktop .. i read in "Preview"06:49
zakkmbut i need to read a bunch of pdf's .. like 500pg long ones06:49
zakkmpure text06:49
luke-jrcould always install Gentoo ;)06:49
zakkmpdf reader on nokia .. default one doesnt work well06:49
luke-jrbecome user number 406:50
zakkmthen okular?06:50
zakkmthat was my plan you know06:50
luke-jrKDE 4.2 ;)06:50
zakkmbefore i got my n80006:50
zakkmto port gentoo to the tablet06:50
luke-jrzakkm: it's running ok06:50
zakkmat least a year ago06:50
zakkmkde4? :P06:50
luke-jrmaybe you should join the dark side06:50
luke-jrGentoo is running OK06:50
luke-jrKDE 4… not so much06:50
luke-jrI wish there was a good mapping/driving directions app tho06:51
luke-jrMarble kinda sucks06:51
zakkmgoogle maps ?:D06:51
luke-jrzakkm: I'm considering writing a Plasma replacement that works similar to Hildon06:51
luke-jrGoogle Maps doesn't work offline06:51
zakkmdriving directions, that would require alot of disk space06:52
zakkmto store06:52
luke-jrin theory Navit does it, but it's GTK+06:53
zakkmwouldnt it?06:53
zakkmto store such data06:53
zakkmhah that would be slow though :P06:53
luke-jrit's the same data used for the maps06:54
zakkmthats awesome :P06:56
zakkmkde4 hah sounds so slow06:56
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luke-jrzakkm: Plasma is the main problem07:09
zakkmfor speed?07:10
zakkmluke-jr: for speed?07:12
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zakkmis there a way to have backlight lower than 1 but higher than 0  ? ( n800 )07:41
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zakkmin advanced backlight07:41
StsN800it goes 0..127 i think07:41
zakkmyeah i need like 0.507:44
zakkmwhen i turn off my light in my room and lie in bed.. 0 is off and is wayy to low07:44
zakkmand 1 is way too bright07:44
StsN800yeah i agree07:45
StsN800except the control is i=0..127, i integer07:45
StsN800on kernel level07:45
zakkminteger = no decimal place right?07:45
zakkmbeen a while since i did programming07:46
StsN800right, or math07:46
zakkmi failed grade 11 math, havent done math since07:46
zakkmnumpty physics game wont quit :(07:47
zakkmStskeeps: that sucks, not having one between that07:48
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man_in_pdaok, that was scary07:57
luke-jrzakkm: what?07:57
luke-jrzakkm: what does Plasma have to do with speed?07:57
man_in_pdan810 wouldn't boot07:57
zakkmyou saying plasma is what makes kde4 slow?07:57
zakkmah i want to try soemthing besides maemo :P07:57
luke-jrzakkm: who said it was slow?07:57
zakkmkde4 is slow ;p07:58
man_in_pdaand i got a usb F-F adapter07:58
luke-jrbetter than GNOME07:58
zakkmman_in_pda: you got a f-f adapter for n810?07:58
luke-jrnow compiling cmake07:58
luke-jrTHAT is slow07:58
GeneralAntilleszakkm, the hardware doesn't have any more levels.07:58
man_in_pdazakkm, no, generic f-f adapter07:59
zakkm1 is too bright and 0 is too low :(07:59
GeneralAntillesIf you want to notch it down a level, you're stuck soldering in a resistor.07:59
zakkmthat sucks07:59
zakkmi thought it might be software :(07:59
luke-jrin fact, I just aborted cmake compile it's too slow07:59
GeneralAntillesBe thankful we've got what we do.07:59
GeneralAntillesLaptops are often far less generous in their provided backlight levels.07:59
luke-jrzakkm: try a lens over the LCD08:00
luke-jrlike a tinted screen protector08:00
zakkmi use my nokia before i sleep like laying in bed and 0 well cant see anything at all its off and 1 is too bright it hurts my eyes after awhile08:00
zakkmwouldnt know where to obtain one08:00
luke-jrme either ^^08:00
luke-jrcould probably get colours at some art store08:00
zakkmand its touchscreen the tablet, so it would be even harder to find08:01
zakkmpaint my screen protector? :D08:01
man_in_pdawondering how to get usb keyboard set up08:01
zakkmthat would be cool08:01
zakkmman_in_pda: onesec08:01
luke-jrzakkm: btw,
zakkmyeah i was reading that08:01
zakkmman_in_pda: <-- would add a statusbar icon, and then you can click on the icon.. then first one for host mode .. and then start typing08:02
zakkmman_in_pda: <-- wiki page08:02
zakkmluke-jr: would hate to compile long though, how well does it perform?08:02
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luke-jrzakkm: it runs kismet fine08:03
luke-jrand nano08:03
luke-jrand KDE 4.2 somewhat OK08:03
luke-jrbut I've been using console for a week or so now08:03
zakkmi have n800, i would require onscreen keyboard08:03
zakkmor ssh08:03
luke-jrI think slono has a standard X OSK08:04
zakkmluke-jr: i want to try penguinbait's old kde 3 i think :D08:04
zakkmthe one in maemo :p08:04
luke-jrit'd be *so* tempting to switch to KDE 3 all around if it was Qt408:05
zakkmcouldnt you do kde4 in maemo ?08:05
luke-jrMaemo is what I dislike08:05
luke-jrKDE 4 is also what I dislike08:05
luke-jrGentoo and KDE 3 are what I like08:06
zakkmwhat do you like?08:06
zakkmyou tried it?08:06
zakkmgentoo + kde3?08:06
luke-jrI also like Qt4, and don't use Qt3/GTK+08:06
luke-jrKDE 3 is Qt3 :<08:06
luke-jrI'm sure it would work tho08:06
zakkmnot much dfiference ;p08:06
luke-jrKDE 3 doesn't have Plasma crap08:07
luke-jrand has working PIM08:07
zakkmi prefer 3 to 4 :P08:07
luke-jrmy point exactly08:07
luke-jrbut 3 requires old Qt308:07
zakkmim a mac guy though :D08:08
man_in_pdai has keyboard08:09
zakkmman_in_pda: :D08:10
zakkmman_in_pda:  dont you have a physical one on the nokia though?08:10
man_in_pdanumlock light doesn't seem to come on though08:10
zakkmit works though.08:10
man_in_pdaand the keyboard is about 5-6 times as big as the device ;)08:11
man_in_pdayes, it works08:11
man_in_pdaSO DOES CAPS-LOCK08:11
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zakkmman_in_pda: so lucky you have physical keyboard :p08:11
man_in_pdaAlready had one :P08:12
zakkmno attached to nokia08:12
man_in_pdanow i have a full-size one :D08:12
man_in_pdan810 has a hardware keyboard08:12
luke-jra crappy one :<08:12
man_in_pdamaybe, but it works08:13
zakkmi want the n810 :D08:13
zakkmill trade you guys :P08:13
zakkmn800 + $50 ? :D08:13
zakkmand f-f adapter08:13
man_in_pdano deal08:13
luke-jrzakkm: I'm not sure what I could do with a N80008:14
luke-jrseems useless tbh08:14
luke-jrno GPS, no keyboard..08:14
man_in_pdan800 + ... one hundred ... BILLION DOLLARS!08:14
zakkmonscreen, big onscreen08:14
luke-jrseriously, that's everything I do with my N81008:14
man_in_pdan810 has big screen too :P08:14
zakkmyeah gps sucks though i thought08:14
zakkmthe onscreen keyboard is huge08:14
luke-jrwrite notes and GPS08:14
luke-jrzakkm: GPS is usable08:14
zakkmthe finger keyboard08:14
man_in_pdaoh right08:15
man_in_pdan810 has that too08:15
man_in_pdait's big08:15
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man_in_pdahehe, alt-tab doesn't work :P08:17
zakkmshould, just once though, then you use arrow keys08:17
zakkmand prses enter to select08:17
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man_in_pdaooh, shift-alt-tab brings up the apps menu08:18
zakkmthing sucks battery :D08:20
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man_in_pdalol, alt+f4 is application's menu08:27
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zakkmhow would i go about and installing the 48mhz kernel from ?08:31
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StsN801morning qgil :)09:49
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RST38hmoo all10:20
aquatixmorning all10:23
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LiraNunacan anyone help me booting b-man's ubuntu?10:33
Stskeepsonly god can help you, i'd say :P10:34
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thuxwhere is official ubuntu for tablets10:37
radicin wiche packed is "ar" included?10:38
aquatixradic: what distro?10:38
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Stskeepsthux: not official10:39
thuxbut rumors about official n8x0 ubuntu10:40
thuxhave heard them long time10:40
thuxthat tablet-ubuntu comes and is much better than maemo10:41
radicaquatix: OS2008 diablo10:41
Stskeepseh, b-man made a port of ubuntu (largely based on deblet and Mer work), and Mer is based on top of ubuntu10:41
Stskeepsthe "better than maemo" i don't think anyone claimed10:41
Stskeepsespecially since maemo is expert at power saving10:42
thuxStskeeps: yes i don't talk about b-mans port10:42
thuxeven one nokia guy said to me that official ubuntu for tablets is coming10:43
thuxbut haven't see it yet10:43
Stskeepsthux: maybe rx-51 :P10:44
Stskeepsthat's more likely i'd say10:44
thuxthey are then porting it?10:44
Stskeepsno idea10:44
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thuxso many rumors around10:46
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jaem_N810hey folks10:50
jaem_N810is there an easy way to stop (or mute) playback of the media player home widget at a specified time?10:50
Stskeepsmorning jaem_N81010:50
jaem_N810I should be asleep, but I want music - however, it will wake me up early if I leave it on10:51
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* jaem_N810 thinks...10:51
jaem_N810"I should be asleep... so I'll go on IRC!"10:52
jaem_N810that's kind of like me wasting time reading blogs about productivity a few weeks ago10:52
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Stskeepsbetter than me waking up and checking iTT at 4am10:52
jaem_N810night... I'll read the scrollback in the morning if anyone has ideas10:52
Stskeepsdid you know debian packaging btw?10:53
jaem_N810the N810 is great for sleepness nights10:53
jaem_N810I've done a bit, but it drives me nuts10:53
jaem_N810why do you ask?10:53
jaem_N810I like Arch10:53
jaem_N810's pkgs10:53
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Stskeepsah, trying to find people to do tiny things but even if they're tiny, they make a big difference10:54
jaem_N810well, I could probably stomach some packaging for that :P10:54
jaem_N810I'll have to get back to you about that tomorrow, though10:55
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thuxi got error 'mv: cannot rename 'hello-world.inactive': No such file or directory' when installing garage deb, is it important?11:24
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qgilX-Fade: do you know how to make that users clicking to "Roadmap" in the nav bar at go directly to ? I want to deprecate completely11:31
qgilor even better to so we don't need to change it release by release11:32
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floriangood morning11:41
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b0unc3good morning11:47
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pupnik  didn't see this before, another odd omap device12:12
florianthat's an interesting toy12:13
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pupnikhehe @ $150012:19
pupnikbut it's meant as a dev platform, which could be a reasonable business model12:19
pupniklet ppl do their work on real hardware, before building their own device12:19
Stskeepsthat's how the companies do it12:20
andre__heja Stskeeps, so is still valid for Fremantle beta, right?12:21
* Stskeeps checks12:21
pupnikStskeeps: actually probably more useful as a demo unit, since you can get 10x beagleboards for the price12:22
* andre__ updating some version numbers12:22
Stskeepsandre__: no, actually not - they have seperated out libhildondesktop-dev from hildon-desktop12:23
Stskeepsas far as i can tell12:23
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Stskeepsthat the bug is still a pain in the ass for the old hildon-desktop i guess is our own problem :)12:23
RST38hOMAP Zoom is an official OMAP dev platform from TI12:23
andre__Stskeeps, oha. feel free to add a comment.12:23
RST38hUnless you are a company, forget it12:24
RST38hExpensive, heavy, and huge, more like a demo item12:24
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Stskeepsandre__: commented12:25
andre__thanks a lot12:26
Stskeepsi'm just happy to see it being seperated12:26
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Stskeepsit's a pain in the ass when we port :)12:26
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rmtAnyone created a CIA World Factbook app?12:27
andre__i'll ping internally...12:27
rmtOpera has a nice widget for it, which uses their reformatted for a small screen pages..12:28
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X-Fadeqgil: Roadmap redirected.13:51
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lardmanmorning chaps13:54
Stskeepsmorning lardman :)13:55
lardman~lart Windows for stealing the focus, I just wrote "hey" in the middle of my report, grrr!13:55
* infobot hooks into a hydrant and hoses Windows down for stealing the focus, I just wrote "hey" in the middle of my report, grrr!13:55
lardmanStskeeps: hey anyway :)13:56
lardmanHow's Mer coming along?13:56
Stskeepsalmost there with fully-built-in-OBS13:56
* lardman gives a subtle hint that a mailing list would be good ;)13:56
Stskeeps ,
Stskeepswe're microblogging to it so it makes nice digests13:57
lardmanah good stuff, nice to be able to read the digests13:57
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Stskeepsthe default mode is set to be digest so13:57
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Stskeepsseems like qwerty12 has changed his priorities and no longer on irc and in mer, kinda sucks :/ he'll be missed13:58
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lardmanprobably exam time coming up too13:58
Stskeepsi don't blame him, i'm downsizing a bit too, difficult month ahead13:59
lardmanwell I've been quiet all year on pretty much all forms, I've had a busy one so far13:59
Stskeepsyeah, and you're getting married soon :)13:59
lardmanyep, end of this month :)13:59
Stskeepsi'll toast to that at the cph meeting ;)14:00
lardmancool, thanks :)14:00
lardmanI would have liked to pop along and actually find some time to do some coding14:00
lardmanwhen I get back from honeymoon I should have some free time at last :)14:00
lardmantaking weeks out in the middle of the year doesn't help the conference paper writing, etc14:01
qgilX-Fade: thanks for the rediroadmap14:01
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lardmanhey qgil14:01
lardmanStskeeps: right am subscribed14:02
Stskeeps*nod* you'll be spammed with a digest daily, if the messages in it <30 ;)14:02
qgilhi my dear bride  :)14:02
* lardman would prefer s/bride/groom ;)14:02
qgilah, details14:02
lardmanit's all in the name lard-"man" ;)14:03
lardmanqgil: holding up to the onslaught of "when will the next tablet be out" questions?14:05
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* Stskeeps wonders idly if the talk.* wars have calmed down14:06
X-FadeStskeeps: Time heals all wounds ;)14:06
Stskeepshaven't seen a post in 5 hours about theme/etc/community complaining/etc14:06
lardmanprobably just waiting for the caffeine to take effect before they kick off again ;)14:07
dnearyhey ho14:07
lardmanhi dneary, how's things?14:07
dnearyso so14:07
dnearyBeen a busy week on another project14:08
lardmanoh, what's up, swine flu?14:08
lardmanah worse then ;)14:08
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Stskeepsoh that's interesting14:12
lardmanpretty cheap isn't it14:13
Stskeepswell, 120 quid14:13
lardmanI saw some reports of >£100 ?14:13
Stskeepsprice on gbax is 129.9914:14
lardmanwhat's the (processor, memory, flash) spec?14:14
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lardmanno kb anyway so I don't want one, but still interesting14:15
Stskeepsit's fully hackable, too14:15
lardmanpm too?14:16
Stskeepsas far as i can tell14:16
Stskeepskernel source has everything14:16
lardmaninteresting, hw accel too14:16
Stskeepswell, under a samsung NDA .. :P14:16
lardmanwhich the hw accel?14:16
lardmanoh crap14:17
Stskeepsbut their firmware does not have the libraries14:17
Stskeepsjust the video codecs14:17
lardmanbetter than nothing I suppose14:17
Stskeepsbut besides that, it's quite open: i have kernel & firmware maker and all that jazz14:17
lardmanI wonder if the 3D stuff could be obtained14:17
Stskeepsi could build a Mer image in 23 hours14:17
lardmanstill shame it has no kb14:18
lardmanI wonder if they use Jazelle on it14:19
lardmanwould be nice to officially rev eng that14:19
Stskeepsyeah, on the other hand14:19
Stskeepsit's tinier than a n800 and lighter14:19
lardmanwhat's the screen size? 4.3" still?14:19
Stskeepsjust no dpad14:19
lardmanok, so not too bad14:20
Stskeepsbut there's the 3 buttons on top14:20
lardmanI never use the dpad anyway makes no odds to me14:20
RST38hprobably not using jazelle14:20
RST38hjazelle = $$$14:20
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lardmanno, shame, I can't find any binaries to rev eng in a more legal manner14:20
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lardman~lart Stskeeps for distracting lardman from report writing ;)14:27
* infobot gives Stskeeps a good seeing to for distracting lardman from report writing ;)14:27
lardmanhmm, infobot is getting a bit rude14:27
RST38h~lawyers lardman14:28
RST38hno, that one did not work14:28
lardmanphew, would have been time consuming and expensive too! :)14:29
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* lardman finds himself being pulled toward Google on a quest to look for some 3D drivers/clues/other hw which uses that Samsung chip14:34
Stskeepsmorning jeremiah_14:38
ShadowJKheh cool, I didn't realize fring made a version for N8x014:40
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RST38hShadowJK: Given that their S60 version is a pos, it does not change much14:50
Stskeepswhy do i get really really bad vibes from
ShadowJKah well, if they make crappy S60 version that must mean their brains aren't suffering symbian-brainrot yet, and as such surely the N810 version will be awesome and made with the enthusiasm of someone who just escaped from a dungeon pit14:52 I the only one sensing a fallacy in this logic? =)14:52
lardmanStskeeps: because they're involved with the Pandora too?14:53
Stskeepslardman: ah, yeah14:54
Stskeepsthat's probably why14:54
lardmanif I see anything with Pandora comparisons I wonder a little14:54
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pupniki think RST38h should build the new dosbox cvs and -fprofile-generate / -fprofile_use14:56
ShadowJKdoes that actually help...14:57
* ShadowJK blinks14:57
RST38hpupnik: Why?14:57
pupnikcause i cant14:57
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RST38hI can't either - got a child on my hands, and once I pass her to my wife got the rest of this work day to complete14:58
Stskeepsi have reached a new low. i'm signing up for a chinese forum through
* pupnik accepts14:59
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aquatixStskeeps: lol15:05
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RST38h"...based on anecdotal evidence, it appears that the SCP was commissioned to journey to the sun under orders of Shi Huang Ti. Whether it was for a military expedition or a petitionerÁ15:36
RST38hs journey appears unclear so far."15:36
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*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to " May sprint meeting today (2009-05-07) @ 1330 UTC in #maemo-meeting | Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | |"15:55
* GeneralAntilles yawns loudly15:55
Stskeepsmorning, and welcome to another day of not so fun Talk threads :P15:56
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b-manhay, Stskeeps16:00
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man_in_pdaah, there we go16:03
man_in_pdanumlock working again :D16:03
b-manStskeeps: btw, i herd about someone talking about including a new feature in the installer witch would allow you to install different environments16:03
b-mansounds interesting16:04
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man_in_pdayay, nethack with full-sized keyboard16:04
GeneralAntillesWoo, r.m.o updated.16:04
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GeneralAntillesAh, Talk, how I hate you.16:07
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* timsamoff just got home from dropping my 30-year-old son off at daycare.16:19
sjgadsbyThey grow so quickly.16:20
timsamoffHa ha ha!16:20
timsamoffYeah, funny typo in a recent Maemo-related interview.16:20
sjgadsbyI must have missed that one.16:20
penguinbaitI put my ten year old on my shoulders yesterday and bent over, I can no longer turn my head16:20
timsamoffI'll bet my 3-year-old weighs as much as your 10-year-old. :p16:21
sjgadsbyWow, it's like the opposite of those old "my dad can beat up your dad" arguments.16:21
timsamoffsjgadsby: Thanks for all of the "talk" spam reporting. Just squashed the last two.16:23
sjgadsbyNo problem, timsamoff. I just feel bad for all the email spam I generate to the mods by reporting spam.16:24
timsamoffNah. It's a good thing.16:24
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penguinbaitcmon, tim, how big is your 3 year old :) or is he really 30 :)16:28
GeneralAntillesSprint meeting in 2 minutes.16:28
penguinbaitalthough my 10 year old only ways 65lbs16:28
timsamoffpenguinbait: Ok, you win. Mine's only 38.16:29
penguinbaitwhere is the sprint meeting held?16:30
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RST38h.NET Micro Framework kaboom.16:36
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lardmanhmm, does that SmartQ 5 actually have wifi, I'm doubtful16:56
lardmanand the link from slashgear shows pretty shocking video decoding, not ideal16:57
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StsN801lardman, it even has meshable wifi17:00
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StsN801and mplayer.. i think some actual xine/mplayer would help17:01
lardmanI didn't see a wifi module load in the dmesg output17:02
lardmanand on the product page it talks about connection over EDGE rather than talking about wifi17:02
lardmanit was in Chinese mind you17:02
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StsN801ah, its there.
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lardmanyou got a physical machine?17:05
lardmanwell in that case I trust your judgement, I thought we were still speculating17:06
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StsN801nah, the company sent me one17:06
lardmanthat's ok :)17:07
lardmanso does mplayer work on it?17:07
StsN801didn't test yet17:07
lardmanwere those very poor mp4 outputs an anomaly?17:07
StsN801it is probably an artefact of shitty os;)17:08
lardmanthe hw acceleration should sort it out though17:08
suihkulokkion samsung?17:09
StsN801its fbdev though17:09
suihkulokkithe hw acceleration for samsung s3c chips only works for very selected codecs and bitrates17:10
StsN801thought so17:10
lardmanyeah, I thought mp4 was one of the accelerated ones though17:11
lardman p517:12
qgilhi, can you acces ?17:13
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X-Fadeqgil: No, 40417:14
qgilthe internet is becoming multidimensional lately17:15
qgilah wait, can it be a matter of permissions?17:15
X-Fadeqgil: Yeah, it is a rights problem.17:16
X-Fadeqgil: I can read it with my admin account17:16
qgil"everyone" - "read"?17:17
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X-Fadeqgil: Should be enough.17:17
qgilit's set that way already17:18
X-Fadeqgil: No, it is a red cross.17:18
X-Fadeqgil: So that means !read ;)17:18
X-Fadeqgil: Needs to be a green tickmark.17:19
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qgilI'm just a middleman here, as usual17:19
qgilso now:
X-FadeYep, works17:20
timsamoffWorking now.17:20
X-FadeWell the images are broken.17:20
X-FadeAnd there is a typo: "fartoot" instead of fakeroot ;)17:20
* timsamoff is laughing uncontrollably.17:21
* timsamoff is so mature.17:21
lardmandon't worry, I was also laughing17:22
lardmanactually that shouldn't stop you worrying, I should just join you :)17:22
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suihkulokkifakeroot is even unneeded in this case...17:22
timsamoffSomeone should come up with a fartroot utility, just in case. ;)17:22
ShadowJKfbdev seriously hurts17:24
ShadowJK(for video playback)17:24
qgilalright, now we see why it was pulled  :)17:24
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X-Fadeqgil: ;)17:26
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mtsu_Mattgah! my N810 is being delievered today, but I need to leave in about an hour for my last exam17:29
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RST38hexam or n810 unboxing? unboxing or the exam? it is a really hard choice...17:40
mtsu_Mattwell, the class was hell (boring teacher more than anything) so I'd hate to have to repeat it17:40
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mtsu_Mattin brighter news, I got an A in my parallel class.17:40
lardmanthe old fire alarm trick?17:40
lardmanor a bomb threat?17:40
lardmanor swine flu outbreak17:41
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RST38hthe swine flu!!!17:41
mtsu_Matt95 on the exam, and the teacher was checking through to see if I'd done it all because I was finished so fast17:41
lardmanchecking for your crib sheet more likely! ;)17:41
RST38hwhat was the subject anyway*17:41
mtsu_Mattyeah, our school keeps send out info about swine flu17:42
mtsu_Mattseems like it'd be more effective if they sprayed down the lab keyboards with disinfectent17:42
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lardmanover here they are planning on giving people marks based on their coursework if swine flu closes schools17:45
lardmanthen again mtsu_Matt may be over here anyway17:45
mtsu_MattI'm in TN,USA17:45
timsamofflardman: Isn't it bacon flu?17:45
lardmanah ok, I'm in the UK17:45
lardmantimsamoff: yep, so we need to eat more to reduce the number of pigs, easy ;)17:45
mtsu_Mattoh well, I'm off, hopfully there'll be a toy waiting for me when I get back17:46
lardmangood luck on both fronts17:47
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RST38hlardman: so, willing to bet on whether he bricks it before midnight today?17:48
mtsu_MattI heard that17:48
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mtsu_Mattthanks for the luck lardman, I just came back to say it just got here17:48
RST38hah real good luck now17:49
lardmanah well let's hope your luck holds then :)17:49
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lardmanRST38h: well there's "brick" and brick ;)17:49
lardmanperhaps the former, not the latter though17:50
mtsu_MattI thought you could just copy back your OS from backup, re-flash it17:50
RST38hyea the latter is a bit difficult to accomplish17:50
mtsu_Mattcan you brick it where flashing doesn't work?17:50
lardmanprobably, but you have to try quite hard17:50
RST38hif you try hard17:50
StsN801very hard17:51
lardmanwe won't tell you how though17:52
lardmannot yet17:52
mtsu_Mattright then, cheerio chaps17:53
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GeneralAntillesfartoot. . . .17:58
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rm_yousprint meeting today? :P17:59
Stskeepsjust missed it17:59
*** rm_you changes topic to " Masprinty sprint meeting today (2009-05-07) @ 1330 UTC in damn | Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | |"17:59
X-Faderm_you: just finished.17:59
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rm_youwtf how did i do that17:59
X-FadeI'll post the log.17:59
*** rm_you changes topic to " May sprint meeting today (2009-05-07) @ 1330 UTC in damn | Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | |"17:59
penguinbaitI can compile my own OS, but I cannot seem to figure out how to add a picture a wiki page, can external linked images be added?17:59
rm_youwell, fixed17:59
rm_youbut wtf17:59
rm_youi shouldnt have permissions to change the topic IMO?17:59
Stskeepsrm_you: been like that forever here18:00
rm_youpenguinbait: yes18:00
rm_youlol ok whatev, just have to be more careful where i click :)18:00
X-Faderm_you: The title is like a wiki ;)18:00
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rm_youoh oops missed one part rofl18:00
*** rm_you changes topic to " May sprint meeting today (2009-05-07) @ 1330 UTC in #maemo-meeting | Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | |"18:00
penguinbaitany advice on format? [[Image:]] does not seem to be working for me?18:00
rm_youstill had "damn" :P18:01
rm_youerr, Image:?18:01
X-Fadepenguinbait: Not all wikis allow external images.18:01
rm_youwhich wiki is this?18:01
Stskeepsyou can upload without issue though18:01
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | |"18:02
Stskeepspenguinbait: yeah, there's a "upload" button :)18:05
timsamoffHave a good day/night everyone.18:05
lardmannight timsamoff18:05
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Stskeepslardman: they have some codecs in module form but we obviously don't distribute thos18:06
Stskeepsand i'm actually not sure the firmware actually uses the codecs18:06
lardmanStskeeps: interesting18:06
lardmani was wondering that from the poor performance of the videos18:06
lardmanthough the codecs may just be very picky of course18:06
Stskeepsi just got word the second donated smartq made it to the receiver :)18:06
lardmanare they willing to donate technical documentation?18:07
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Stskeepsso far i've gotten info on how to access rs232 console, how to boot from SD entirely (with boot sector and internal rom), kernel, firmware builder18:08
Stskeepsa lot of the samsung stuff is already out there though18:08
Stskeepsit seems to be pretty similar to SMDK641018:08
lardmansome info on hw accel would be good - cpu info manual, etc18:08
Stskeepsyeah - except i'm not 100% that's the vendors field18:08
lardmanno nor am I18:09
lardmanbut they might be able to just pass it on ;)18:09
Stskeepsi suspect the openmoko people might have stuff as well18:09
Stskeepsit looks a bit like the "gta03" they were working on18:09
lardmanyeah I saw some stuff about adding support for the chip to the kernel18:10
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penguinbaitcan I resize in the image on the wiki, or do I need to do it before upload?18:11
luke-jrwhy won't ITT let me send PMs?18:11
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penguinbaitare you at your limit?18:12
luke-jrpenguinbait: I just joined18:12
penguinbaitah, very low limit18:13
penguinbaitor none at all?18:13
luke-jrI haven't sent a single PM either ;)18:13
penguinbaithave you made posts?18:13
lardmanyeah, was just downloading that18:13
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lardmanhmm, that's more a physical connection user manual18:14
lardmanneed the cpu manual18:14
lardmanhave to wait and see if I request to join the Samsung site registered users is allowed18:16
GeneralAntillesResizing is done is the inline element.18:16
penguinbaitI did it manually, but thanks18:17
lardmanInteresting Imagination Technologies are asking what they can do to help the community (to get more exposure), I wonder if I should ask for PowerVR info or wait for Quim18:18
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GAN8001lardman, Quim's talking to TI this month.18:18
GAN8001They're working on it, so I'd just wait18:18
lardmanI will do18:19
luke-jrI'm more interested in GPS specs than PowerVR tbh -.-18:19
lardmanon the n810?18:20
lardmanwhat do you want to know specifically?18:20
Guest001_330Hi. I tried to install Android on my n810 with this procedure (, but it says "Impossible installing android-installer". Any ideas? Thank you very much!18:20
luke-jrmaybe if you can get PowerVR stuff without Quim, he might be willing to reassign his talks to GPS? :/18:20
luke-jrlardman: specs for how to access the chip18:20
lardmanI've no chance without Quim18:20
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lardmanluke-jr: just reverse engineer the gpsdriver code18:20
luke-jrlardman: faster said than done18:21
lardmanbut either the chipset or the antenna is crap anyway18:21
lardmanhow large is gpsdriver?18:21
luke-jrlardman: ~100 KB IIRC18:21
lardmanI'm not sure you'll be able to improve it really18:21
luke-jrit seems to implement the actual GPS positioning18:21
luke-jrI don't care to improve it.18:22
lbtGuest001_330: not seen android discussed much here :(18:22
luke-jrit works pretty good for me.18:22
lardmanoh right, just want to talk to it in an open source fashion?18:22
Guest001_330The thread on ITT about android-installer was deleted...18:23
StsN801nah, moved18:23
StsN801check in alternatives18:23
luke-jrlardman: and without GNOME libs, for example18:24
lardmangpsdriver doesn't rely on anything gnome18:24
lardmanit's command line18:24
StsN801he claims gconf is gnome18:25
lardmanah I see18:25
luke-jr     Description:         Gnome Configuration System and Daemon18:25
luke-jr(gnome-base category on Gentoo, as well)18:26
StsN801yeah but the important part is the latter18:26
luke-jryeah, but either way it depends on GTK+/glib, which I don't want installed ;)18:26
luke-jrgah, made a post and STILL cant' send PMs -.-18:27
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lardmanluke-jr: remind me about gpsdriver if I'm online tonight18:29
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jaem_N810_afklardman: ping!18:58
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lardmanjaem_N810_afk: pong18:58
jaem_N810I just woke up and read the scrollback, and had something to add RE: exams :P18:59
jaem_N810I was taking a aphysics exam first year, and forgot to turn off jmy cell phone...18:59
jaem_N810which wouldn't have been that bad, except...18:59
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jaem_N810the ringer was full-volume, and set to an air raid siren18:59
jaem_N810the prof actually tried to evacuate the class before I said "that's... my... phone >_<"19:00
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jaem_N810he never mentioned it19:00
jaem_N810ever again19:01
lardmanprobably thought you were embarrassed enough already19:01
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jaem_N810I figured he was19:01
jaem_N810I thought it was funny, albeit unfortunate19:02
* jaem_N810 goes to pour water on himself19:02
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penguinbaitHas hell frozen over??  The planets out of alignment?19:05
MeizirkkiHell froze when "Lordi" won EuroVision song contest19:06
penguinbaitTexrat defended me, basically called me a community uniter19:07
penguinbaitI must be dreaming, we never agree on anything19:08
penguinbaitIt's mot april fools day in Finlad or something is it?19:09
lardmanperhaps it was a crafty ruse? ;)19:09
lcukcommunity untier u mean :P19:09
penguinbaittrouble maker, dick, arsehole19:10
lcukdebate is good and its only effective if there are people passionate about both camps19:10
penguinbaitI answer to lots of things :)19:10
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penguinbaitI have just never fought with anyone like I have fought with Texrat on the forums19:11
penguinbaitOK, maybe GA19:11
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lcuki conflict with my boss often about things (im not a yes man) but in the end we find a path where he gets what he wants and i do it the way i want without breaking too much stuff19:12
lardmanso those wrist locks I taught you are working then...? No need to break things any more :)19:13
lcukheh yeah19:13 has gone back to typin one handed :S19:14
lcuk /19:14
StsN801i dont get the whole anti  sentiment by many. the community is too inactive and unfocused and is a excellent way for projects to get hosting,support,inclusion etc,19:15
lardmanit's probably just that people want something new to focus on19:15
lcuki didnt know there was an explicit anti sentiment?  as far as a portal goes its coming along nicely19:17
lbtyeah, what colour bikeshed....19:17
lbtlike that's the most important thing for the future of the N8x019:17
lcuktheme wars dont really make life too bad, its just momentum19:17
StsN801orange revolution!19:17
* lbt goes to find the xserver code in Mer and remove all non-orangey colours19:18
lcukbeing reminded of the subject every 3 lines makes my blood boil tho!" :D :p19:18
lardmanhold your hands near the screenwash reservoir then19:18
lardmangot to go, might be back on later on19:20
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jaem_N810a friend and I were discussing how terribly Hollyood handles science and technology in movies19:32
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ShadowJKor anything else really19:33
jaem_N810and we decided it would be amusing to spoof their horribly fake "hacker" movies and such by making one about a pair of uni students (us) who run the Internet from their dorm room19:33
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jaskaa real hacker movie19:33
jaem_N810we have enoug equipment that the most gullible might just be fooled19:33
jaska1.5 hours of filming a terminal window19:33
jaem_N810that too19:33
jaskaand grunting noises, scratching head19:33
crashanddiewhat should I do if after plugging in my n810 to the charger, it says "NOKIA", and then the screen just dies? If I pull the battery and try again, it just keeps rebooting like that for 5 minutes19:34
jaem_N810submit it to some "artsy" film festival19:34
jaem_N810they might take it, if you pitched it with flowery language19:34
ShadowJKcrashanddie, what's happened right before it started doing that?19:34
ShadowJKdid you run down the battery?19:34
crashanddieShadowJK: yeah, might have been unpowered for a couple of weeks19:34
jaem_N810wait... it crashes... and dies?19:34
jaem_N810no kidding ;)19:35
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crashanddiejaem_N810: swallow a knife kiddo, go back to your wet dreams of fame by crappy movies ;)19:35
jaem_N810I was kidding :S19:35
ShadowJKhm, I suppose it could be stuck booting and noticing the battery is dangerously empty and shut down19:35
jaem_N810and that's a terrible thing to say :O19:36
ShadowJKthere's actually some sort of amateur movie about that already, so...19:36
crashanddieShadowJK: It's what I suspect as well, though I've had it plugged in on the charger for most of the day so I'm starting to wonder19:36
ShadowJKbut about internet pirates :)19:36
crashanddieli-on batteries don't really like to be drained do they/19:36
jaem_N810so I've heard19:37
crashanddielcuk: got a spare battery for me mate?19:37
ShadowJKThey have a habbit of venting gas violently if they're recharged after being completely emptied :)19:37
* RST38h vents gas:
jaem_N810ShadowJK: are you serious?  I thought that was just shoddy/damaged/overheated batteries19:38
ShadowJKcrashanddie, I don't suppose you have a DMM?19:38
ShadowJKdigital multimeter19:38
crashanddieyeah I do actually, hang on19:39
ShadowJKjaem_N810, fully discharged counts as "damaged"19:39
crashanddie(at work, might take a while to find it)19:39
jaem_N810ShadowJK: does the N810 have any protection against that?19:39
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ShadowJKcrashanddie, set it to DC Volts, make sure the leads are in COM and Vma holes. Whatever you do, don't have the leads plugged into any holes marked "10ADC", and don't have the dial in A area :)19:40
ShadowJKjaem_N810, yes it would refuse to charge a battery that's dangerously empty19:40
jaem_N810I know I have accidentally run it down once, although I otherwise make sure not to19:40
jaem_N810well, that's good, anyway19:40
jaem_N810I was thinking of something that would kill it before it reaches that point in discharge19:41
penguinbaitI run my 810 down to dead all the time, never a problem?19:41
ShadowJK"dangerously" low is somewhere around 2.8-3.0 volts. The system shuts down at about 3.5 Volts and there's another threshold at 3.2V.19:41
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crashanddieShadowJK: I have an electronics degree ;)19:41
jaem_N810oh, ok19:41
ShadowJKBut there are things still running after you shut down, like the clock..19:41
jaem_N810crashanddie: in progress for me19:41
xnt_atschoolHello World!19:41
jaem_N810hello snt19:41
xnt_atschoolim in tech class19:41
xnt_atschoolinstalling debian on my other server19:41
jaem_N810xnt - did you get around to trying Arch?19:42
crashanddieShadowJK: obviously the MM has gone footch19:42
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xnt_atschoolyeah I installed it in a vm, but I haven't gotten around to installing on real hardware19:42
* xnt_atschool hates the schools internet (So slow 20minutes to dl debian packages)19:43
crashanddieI take it having some kind of black ink on the battery is not a good sign19:43
Stskeepsthat's normal19:43
jaem_N810xnt_at_school: my uni is a data/processing center for the LHC, so we have *lots* of BW19:43
jaem_N810and a couple 15PB arrays to boot19:44
ShadowJKcrashanddie, on the terminals?19:44
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xnt_atschool30 mins :(19:44
* xnt_atschool still needs to set up a wifi network, so I can get online with my ipod and nit19:44
xnt_atschoolbut I Can still setup usb networking :)19:45
* xnt_atschool has 24 computers at school with burned powersupplies, and I fixed them an I plan to create my own parallel computing cluster :)19:45
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RST38hjaem: Have you got plans on what to do when LHC causes the end of the world? =)19:46
jaem_N810RST38h: yes19:46
RST38hjaem: elaborate =)19:46
* xnt_atschool will get in a shuttle to moon/mars19:46
jaem_N810read a book written by a real physicist, and ignore it19:46
RST38hyou mean, ignore the end of the world while reading a book?19:47
xnt_atschoolbut if it causes the end of the entire universe, then no19:47
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jaem_N810well, if the book disproves reality, then it shouldn't be too hard19:47
xnt_atschoolbtw is irc encrypted/obfusicated?19:47
jaem_N810not by default19:48
jaem_N810some is19:48
jaem_N810Freenode doesn't support SSL, afaik19:48
* xnt_atschool hopes that the school doesn't know how to use a packet sniffer19:48
RST38hand if it does?19:48
jaem_N810tunnel it?19:48
* xnt_atschool looks if HydraIRC Supports socks19:48
crashanddiehang on, how much is the input supposed to be?19:48
xnt_atschoolcant use xchat19:48
jaem_N810yeah, that's an issue19:49
xnt_atschoolthe school proxy blocks it because it has the word "chat" in it :P19:49
RST38hssh to an outside shell account and irc from there19:49
ShadowJKcrashanddie, hm?19:49
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crashanddieShadowJK: what's the power supply supposed to give out?19:49
jaskasounds like a schutzstaffel school19:49
crashanddieShadowJK: how many V/A ?19:49
crashanddiecuz I only have this only :-*19:50
ShadowJKmine gives 6.something Volts19:50
jaem_N810xnt_at_school: what exactly triggers the blocking?19:50
crashanddiemaybe not for the n81019:50
crashanddieShadowJK: this one is 5V 350mA19:50
ShadowJKyeah but they actually give out more19:50
xnt_atschoolschool uses a proxy19:50
xnt_atschoolon the main router19:50
crashanddieShadowJK: IIRC, this one was for a bluetooth earpiece19:50
jaem_N810yes, but where does the offending instance of the word "chat" occur?19:51
xnt_atschoolim on my comp I built from the broken comps my school throws out19:51
xnt_atschoolthe url19:51
jaem_N810are you using
crashanddiexnt_at_school: set up ssh server on a box at home, apache + mod_proxy, also setup cgiirc and you're good to go19:52
crashanddiexnt_at_school: ssh tunnels ftw19:52
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jaem_N810amen to that :D19:52
xnt_atschoolyup ssh tunnel ftw19:52
* xnt_atschool has vpn on his router but it only work on his ipod for some reason19:53
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ShadowJKcrashanddie, might be worth finding a nokia "fast charger", they can give out more than the device consumes, i think19:53
xnt_atschoolsayanara jaem19:53
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GAN8001lcuk, you need to read talk more closely, then.19:53
crashanddieShadowJK: yeah, I'll ask lcuk to give it a go this weekend, will see from there19:53
GAN8001lcuk, apparently is a hostile takeover of the independent itT community by Nokia.19:53
crashanddieGAN8001: lmao19:54
RST38hGAN: It is you who should read it less closely :)19:54
crashanddieGAN8001: and the chinese FBI wants to hijack the builders for themselves19:54
RST38hcrashanddie: THAT by the way we have evidence for19:55
RST38hcrashanddie: Stskeeps just registered for a chinese developers' forum yesterday!19:55
crashanddieyeah yeah yeah19:55
GAN8001 RST38h, it's my job to read things closely.19:55
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xnt_atschoolthe proxy19:56
xnt_atschool24 mins :)19:56
* xnt_atschool hates lhric19:56
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RST38hGAN: Don't take it as your job. Quim actually gets PAID for this and even he does not react to every forum loony.19:56
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crashanddiexnt_at_school: i2p19:56
* xnt_atschool can read sortof really fast19:56
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* xnt_atschool imagines the sysadmin walking into the tech room for his irc comments :P19:57
Stskeepsdid you get your tablet back? :P19:58
xnt_atschoolNope ;(19:58
crashanddiexnt_atschool: stop the ego trip, he's got better things to do19:58
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* xnt_atschool notices the apple new thing19:59
crashanddieGotta go, going up to Manchester, take care people19:59
xnt_atschoollhric are the people who gave my school the servers/comps20:00
xnt_atschoolcrashanddie: k bye20:00
xnt_atschoolnow my pos school blocked twitter20:01
* xnt_atschool really wants a phone with unlimited data + tether + router20:01
xnt_atschoolwow just wow, :P
xnt_atschoolif I owned the school20:02
xnt_atschoolI would change it to
Stskeepsand you might not want to divulge that info in a logged channel :)20:03
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crashanddiexnt_atschool: uninteresting monologues are not allowed on this channel20:03
* ShadowJK has a subscription with unlimited data and no phone, and 2 sim cards (parallell cards, I can get a total of 5!)20:03
crashanddieand now he's faking the fact that he got owned by the sysadmin20:03
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ShadowJKOr he changed firewall settings and the pos firewall rebooted?20:04
* xnt_atschool notices20:04
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GAN8001RST38h, by "forum loony" you mean people like penguinbait?20:04
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penguinbaithey GA, whats up20:05
xnt_atschoolhello pb20:05
RST38hGAN: Last time I checked, penguinbait actually had a point20:05
* xnt_atschool 's irc client is real crappy20:05
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RST38hGAN: So unless he went all mad in the last 8 hours, no20:05
GAN8001RST38h, point is, it's not just the "loonies" who have strange ideas about maemo.org20:05
ShadowJK<GAN8001> lcuk, apparently is a hostile takeover of the independent itT community by Nokia.20:05
xnt_atschoolpb: what are you running on your tablet?20:05
ShadowJKdoesn't that fit into nokia's world domination plan?20:06
RST38hGAN: There is really easy way to control damage there20:06
GAN8001Either way, my only point is that the opinion is certainly a popular one on Talk.20:06
GAN8001and I was surprised that lcuk missed it.20:06
RST38hGAN: Just devise a way to make ITT look closer to the original design at the least cost20:06
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GAN8001RST38h, hey, presto! Let me just get out my magic wand here!20:06
ShadowJKRST38h, free sunshades for all?20:06
RST38hGAN: Change the layout a little bit, change a few colors, then write a huge ITT post about how you addressed public feedback20:07
RST38hShadow: Well, you won't be able to satisfy all and the sunshades will be mostly made of html cardboard, but yes20:07
xnt|schoolhow about useing greasemonkey to change it to the old theme?20:07
penguinbaitI personally think this is the best option I have seen20:07
GAN8001RST38h, all of these things have already happened.20:07
RST38hGAN: Not really20:08
penguinbaitSee I don't want the standard theme altered20:08
GAN8001The layout and colors have changed dramatically since Talk first launched.20:08
RST38hGAN: That is why they are still raving =)20:08
penguinbaitwe want a choice, like we used to have20:08
lcukmissed what? ive been a bit drugged up recently20:08
GAN8001penguinbait, this is exactly the problem. Everybody wants different things.20:08
Stskeepspeople should stop friggen discussing and actually do something20:08
penguinbaitno GA, most just want other color options20:08
GAN8001Some people want one set of layout changes, others want another. Some other people want one set of color changes, and others want yet another.20:08
xnt|schoolwell Personally Im ok with the current theme, just want darker color20:09
GAN8001It's not a clear-cut issue.20:09
xnt|schoolI can try to help with the color thing20:09
Stskeepsmer has done things people have discussed within community and nokia for ages, sometimes it just takes doing instead of talking20:09
penguinbaitPerhaps if council decided to address this is a logical manner we could move on20:09
RST38hGAN: Well the color issue gets addressed by implementing #4667 on ITT20:09
GAN8001penguinbait, put together a dark theme and Reggie will install it20:09
RST38hGAN: And it really should be as simple as writing some JS20:09
GAN8001It's as simple as that.20:09
GAN8001None of the paid personnel are going to be working on it, though.20:09
RST38hGAN: Will satisfy everyone, more or less20:09
* xnt|school is good at js20:10
GAN8001I'd say that is both reasonable and logical.20:10
penguinbaitIt seems like the best option I have seen, that will make the most people happy20:10
xnt|schoolRST38h: js or css?20:10
RST38hGAN: As far as layout stuff goes, if that useless right column is removed and the amount of posts shown at a page is maximized, that should do the job20:10
ShadowJKStskeeps, seen monty python's "life of brian"?20:10
RST38hxnt: js modifying css attributes dynamically20:10
GAN8001RST38h, useless for you is not useless for somebody else.20:10
ShadowJKi think that was the title..20:10
xnt|schooloh ok :P20:10
GAN8001This is the problem with the vast majority of layout change proposals.20:11
RST38hGAN: I have yet to see anyone (outside of the designers team) who finds the right column useful20:11
StskeepsRST38h: i love the right column20:11
Stskeepsi don't have to click "new posts" all the time anymore20:11
RST38hSts: Really? How do you use it?20:11
Stskeepssaves me a lot of time20:11
* xnt|school is 100% fine with the current layout but wants the color changed, and he will try to work on it :)20:11
GAN8001RST38h, people don't usually tend to speak up when they're satisfied with something.20:12
RST38hSts: But what if you just have a special page for that, showing 2-3 times as many new posts?20:12
GAN8001So the only people you see talking are the people that really hate the changes.20:12
RST38hGAN: That's 100% true unfortunately20:12
StskeepsRST38h: doesn't matter, i get the info while i browse anyway20:12
Stskeepsi use new posts initially20:12
Stskeepsand the right column for rest20:12
Stskeepsand new posts popping up as i browse20:12
GAN8001RST38h, so don't pretend like not seeing people talk about it implies implicit support of your position.20:12
lcuki like the ispy thing :$20:12
lcuki didnt know it existed before20:13
penguinbaitSo Jaffa, GA, Quim, Reggie, andrewfblack, they have put up a loud counter fight20:13
penguinbaitwith no real loss if they would just let it happen?20:13
Stskeepsdidn't it start at "this has been discussed at several meetings"?20:13
RST38hGAN: I guess this can be kinda determined with a vote20:13
GAN8001RST38h, no more polls.20:13
GAN8001Polls just entrench people20:14
* sp3000 votes the bikeshed on fire20:14
penguinbaitreggie suggested yesterday I should run a poll and see who wins classic, or dark theme20:14
RST38hAh, everybody is already in trenches anyway judging from the discussion20:14
GAN8001penguinbait, it's as simple as this: if you want a dark theme, put one together and Reggie will put it up.20:14
penguinbaitI agree with GA, polls are done20:14
GAN8001That's all there is to it.20:14
penguinbaitNot a good enough answer GA20:14
RST38hpenguinbait: GAN has a point, why don't you try to create a new theme?20:14
penguinbaitsorry, thanks for playing20:14
GAN8001penguinbait, tough, that's the answer you get.20:14
penguinbaitI looked into it20:14
GAN8001sp3000, why don't we set you on fire? :D20:15
penguinbaitI am not a web developer, nor do I want to be20:15
RST38hpenguinbait: And if Reggie backs off his word and does not put it up, then the ball is in his court20:15
RST38hpenguinbait: Neither am I but I do this stuff when absolutely needed20:15
GAN8001penguinbait, then find somebody who is20:15
sp3000GAN8001: I'm reminded of wicker man now :)20:15
GAN8001If it really has as much support as you claim, then surely you'll be able to dredge one person up.20:16
RST38hpenguinbait: it is no rocket science20:16
penguinbaitHow many people have to go do this, why not just use bug 4467 and make people happy20:16
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RST38hmy guess is that they have got some images in orange color20:16
GAN8001The paid personnel are working on more important things than satisfying the wishes of an extremely vocal minority20:16
RST38hnot easily changed when the color scheme css is changed20:16
penguinbaitIts all about community involvment, I want more, some people seem to only want an ilusion of community involvment20:16
GAN8001Like making sure Extras and the rest of the website is ready for Fremantle20:17
suihkulokkiWhat is the whine today about?20:17
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GAN8001and planning the Maemo Summit.20:17
GAN8001suihkulokki, no change.20:17
* suihkulokki goes fetch popcorn20:17
RST38hsuihkolokki: same20:17
RST38hsuihkolokki: probably won't stop until somebody DOES provide a dark themse20:17
Stskeeps.. isn't Minimalist dark?20:17
GAN8001RST38h, it wont step then, either.20:17
Stskeepsor am i just dense?20:17
penguinbaitshit I got a box to go rebuild, carry on20:17
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GAN8001Andrew is working on a dark version of minimalist, yes.20:17
xnt|schoolStskeeps: I don't think people like the layout20:17
RST38hSts: Yea, it is dark, I do not know why penguinbait does not use it20:18
RST38hbut it has got some problems on its own20:18
Stskeepsof course20:18
Stskeepsbut some things has to be sacrificed20:18
RST38hPersonally, I mostly miss mobile themes20:18
GAN8001RST38h, file an enhancement20:18
RST38hNot having these is a real problem :(20:18
GAN8001If it's just a default vBulletin theme, they get updated when vBulletin does, so. . . .20:19
RST38hI guess it was something cutom20:19
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GAN8001Well, find something that suits you and get Reggie to install it.20:19
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thopiekaris it normal that the menu-buttons of aren't working?20:20
RST38hlet's see what google brings up...20:20
xnt|schoolGAN: So If I make a theme I can send it to reggie, and get him to install it for the whole forum or just me?20:21
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fiferboylbt: ping20:22
GAN8001xnt|school, you can discuss it with him.20:22
xnt|schoolok g2g, to class20:22
GAN8001xnt|school, but we're not just installing any and every theme that gets offered up.20:22
xnt|schoolGAN: ok thanks20:22
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RST38hGAN: what version of vbulletin are we talking about?20:23
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GAN8001Maybe .320:24
GAN8001It says at the bottom in the footer20:24
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RST38hHere is one:
GAN8001Open an enhancement if you think it's appropriate20:31
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RST38hGAN: 448720:38
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RST38hGAN: As I expected - "WONTFIX" from Reggie.20:52
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RST38hGAN: It does not make sense to file any requests for changes or improvements of ITT or, it looks20:52
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GAN8001RST38h, don't make me generate a buglist for you.20:54
GAN8001That statement is clearly and demonstrably false.20:54
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RST38hGAN: well, if it is some clear bug that only needs a quick fix, filing it may work20:55
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z4chhthere any reason why the itt wiki is not working?20:56
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GAN8001z4chh, as I said several times on the forums, the itT wiki was going to be deprecated in favor the wiki when Talk went live.20:56
z4chhGAN8001, sorry don't read the forums much20:57
GAN8001Out of 1034 bugs in the classification Website, 641 were RESOLVED FIXED while only 82 were WONTFIX.20:57
GAN8001Those numbers pretty well refute your "theory"20:57
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RST38hGAN: How many of 641 were requests for enhancements?20:59
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GAN8001Of 1034 bugs in the component Website, 200 of these are enhancements. Of these, 112 have been RESOLVED FIXED, and only 21 are WONTFIX.21:04
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RST38hsounds reasonable indeed21:08
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lbtfiferboy: pong21:16
fiferboylbt: Hey.  Are you using Qt mostly on Mer now?21:17
lbtI'm working on it21:17
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lbtnot many Qt apps21:17
fiferboyAre there any performance or appearance differences?21:17
luke-jrwe need a Qt mapping app :/21:18
lbtqtmapper exists21:18
luke-jrqtmapper also is pathetic21:18
lcukan app to map the qt libraries :P21:18
lbtno, it appears very similar to maemo Qt21:18
lbtsome minor issues21:18
lbtsuch as vkbd not initiated in some widgets21:19
luke-jrqtmapper has 4 buttons, 2 of which are zoom21:19
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lbtqt-dev has sbox-isms21:19
lbtluke-jr: let me know when you submit a patch21:19
fiferboyHow is finger scroll coming?21:19
lbtit works fine21:19
lbtactually ran all the qtdemos21:20
lbtand it works on them21:20
luke-jrlbt: from QtMapper's codebase size, starting from scratch seems more practical tbh21:20
lbtluke-jr: feel free21:20
fiferboyNice.  I was trying to think of cases to test21:20
lbtfound the bug gnuton mentioned21:20
luke-jrI'm busy fixing bootmenu up :p21:20
fiferboylbt: Which bug?21:20
lbtoh, it also works on qtdesigner21:20
lbtwhich is a bit slow and cramped on the tablet!!21:21
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lbtthe scrollbar itself is a child of the scrollarea21:21
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fiferboyWow, that is some impressive coding to have a drop in work in all those cases21:21
lbtand if you fingerscroll it21:21
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lbtit goes wrong21:21
lbtactually it is impressive21:21
lbtbut it's the Qt design that makes it work21:21
fiferboyHave you thought about styling the scrollbar to make it match Fremantle?21:22
lbtwell, it takes 40hrs to compile Qt21:22
lbtso iterations are hard21:22
Dantonicwhat prog are you guys discussing?21:22
lbtwhy does florian keep saying re21:22
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fiferboyI have never actually complete the compile in scratchbox.21:23
Stskeepslbt: re-hi? :P21:23
lbtoh this is not sbox21:23
lbtit's qemu21:23
lbtmuch cleaner21:23
fiferboyRight, but when I compile it for Hildon I use scratchbox.  At least, I would if there was any hope of my computer ever finishing21:23
lbtfunny though - my sbox1 setup "just works"21:24
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lbt(and it uses native gcc and all 3 cores so it's an overnight compile)21:24
fiferboyI can send you some code to style the scrollbar like Fremantle, if you would like21:24
lbtI'd like to setup a debian-mer in qt4-x1121:25
lbtand have patchsets in there21:25
lbt(so yes)21:25
lbt(but that's how I'd like it)21:25
lbtI will be basing Mer on fremantle qt anyway21:25
lbtneed to check it's not GL based though21:26
lbtoh, also got QTablet moving21:26
lbtpackaging that tonight I hope21:26
lbtmmm kiwi21:26
fiferboyI've heard of QTablet21:26
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lbtbit embryonic21:27
fiferboyThe blog mentions something about a pannable widget, which I assume is different from yours.21:28
fiferboyI think it is in the QAnimationFramework code21:28
lbtyep, I have it running on x8621:28
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lbtonce I package it I'll do an armel build21:28
lbtI also have qtanimationframework waiting21:29
fiferboyCan you tell from the x86 build how complete it is?21:29
lbtyes :(21:30
fiferboyNot very?21:30
lbtwell, it doesn't make me think it'll be the #1 ui anytime soon21:31
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lbtbut it's small and neat21:31
fiferboyCan you tell if there is any advantage for Qt applications?  Faster startup or smoother execuation?21:32
luke-jryeah, GTK+ sucks21:32
fiferboyluke-jr: I don't think you want to open that particular can of worms here...21:33
lbtwell, I assume that once the .so are in memory that it'll be quicker21:33
GeneralAntillesToolkit wars are about as silly as it gets.21:34
GeneralAntillesSome things work better for some developers, others for other developers.21:34
fiferboyLanguage wars are good too21:34
lbtwhereas colour scheme wars...21:34
lbtthey're for the brave21:34
GeneralAntillesThe only thing that matters to the end user is that the applications do what they expect them to do in the manner that they expect.21:34
GeneralAntilleslbt, it stopped being about the colors a long time ago.21:34
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: I haven't been following closely, what's it about now?21:35
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, it's mostly about a lot of hostility, negativity and entrenched positions.21:35
fiferboyDoesn't sound like I'm missing out on much, then21:36
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fiferboylbt: I missed your comment about .so in memory.  That's what I thought, but I guess it is hard to tell until you have it running on the tablet21:37
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lbtyes, and gtk is already in there.... when I have pure Qt versions of all the hildon apps I'll let you know...21:38
lbtcirca 202021:38
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Do you remember the roadmap for more Qt integration?  Is it the "H" release?21:39
GeneralAntillesWhich seems likely to be in a 2010-ish timeframe21:39
fiferboyRight.  hopefully that is before OS202021:39
GeneralAntillesSince, supposedly, there's something relevant coming up in October.21:40
fiferboylbt: Did you ever try FlickCharm on the tablet?21:41
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lbtno, I admit I read the flickcharm code after I wrote mine and never actually ran it <blush> I stole some optimisations from it and also noticed some areas I think I did better.21:43
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fiferboyI was wondering if there was any performance difference.21:45
lbtI doubt it ... very similar design21:45
lbtmine is more invasive though21:46
lbtflickcharm is designed to be an addon widget to new apps21:46
lbtmine, of course, has to cope with existing apps21:46
lbtso it does things like monitore widget add/remove on the scrollarea21:46
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lbtand intercepts events on them too21:46
fiferboyMy tablet struggles with a 1100 item list with photos and FlickCharm.  I guess it is just too much for the tablet.21:46
fiferboyMaybe I will try to optimize my paint code for my QItemDelegates21:47
lbtyes, I doubt that's flickcharm per se21:47
Passelilbt: what stuff are you talking about?21:47
fiferboyWith no images it is fairly smooth21:48
lbtQt port to Mer and some extra finger friendly things21:48
lbtPassel Dantonic ^^21:48
lcukfiferboy, how can you expect 1000 images to be smooth anyway21:49
lcukthats a lorra memory and caching and loading and destroying as you go21:49
lcukor are they tiny pics21:49
fiferboyWell, not every line has an image.  I didn't really expect it to me smooth, but I was hoping.21:50
fiferboyThey are about 100x100, so tiny.21:50
lbtfiferboy: if we ever get opengl... maybe21:50
lcuki once tested liqbase with 25000 sketches in the graffiti wall21:50
lcukit was lovely21:50
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fiferboylbt: That would help.  Or just a bit more horsepower.  Or a little less overhead.21:50
slonopotamushmm... mplayer can output to fbcon. tablets have fbcon module. anyone tried?21:51
fiferboylcuk: I assume you are using some pretty optimized thumbnailing code :)21:51
Stskeepsslonopotamus: you dont need fbcon loaded to do that21:51
lcukfiferboy, for the sketches? no they are all fully in memory, for pictures yeah i would need to thumbnail them21:51
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lcuksketches are tiny21:52
lcukphotos are massive21:52
slonopotamusStskeeps, i wonder if it is better/worse than playing through X21:52
lcukthe blit routines dont care about size tho21:52
fiferboyHow much memory is the average sketch?21:52
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lcukout of 1500 sketches in my current working set, the largest is 99k on disk - they take up less memory when loaded21:53
lcukmost are 10-30k21:53
lcuka sketch is a collection of strokes21:53
lardmanhmm, less memory when loaded?21:53
slonopotamuslcuk, i couldn't find liqbase sources tarball :/ (didn't search much though)21:53
lcuka stroke is just txyzp21:53
lcuklardman, yeah - writing out the data in ascii21:54
lcukvs holding binary ints21:54
lardmanoh really?21:54
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lcukslonopotamus, its not released21:54
lardmanwhy not use some sort of binary format then?21:54
lcukits not ready21:54
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lcukcos i wanted to see what they looked like21:54
lcukand i wanted to put them through irc21:54
lcukbut thats a different story21:54
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slonopotamuslcuk, oh. i read you decided to open it21:54
lcuki stopped that as soon as i got kicked lol21:55
lcukslonopotamus, you can come and have a peek at the git if you like :)21:55
GAN8001lcuk, telepathy21:55
GAN8001User Jabber or something.21:55
infobotGAN8001 meant: Use Jabber or something.21:55
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lcukstep into #liqbase :)21:55
lcukgan you havent seen what i want to do with it all yet21:55
GAN8001I don't want to get my feet dirty. :P21:56
fiferboylbt: Do your qemu compiled binaries run on the device with no problems?21:56
lardmanWierd, ordered a book through Amazon marketplace for ~£94 and it was shipped straight from Wiley (publisher) with an invoice which says ~£117, hope I don't get charged that21:56
lbtfiferboy: of course :)21:56
GAN8001lardman, sue!21:56
lbtthe next Mer release is 100% pure OBS21:56
lardmanGAN8001: bloody Americans! ;)21:56
fiferboyEven with the qt4-dev scratchbox issues?  Or is that just for building against your binaries?21:56
lbtwell, it's only a silly script in qt4-dev.postinst21:57
lbtactually I need to fix that21:57
fiferboylbt: Oops, I meant on a device running Hildon...21:57
lbtfiferboy: did you want my Qt finger binaries ? (Andrew?)21:58
fiferboylbt: I would very much like to try them out.21:58
lbtyeah, they'll be ready thursday from OBS...21:58
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fiferboyExcellent.  I only have FlickCharm used in a few places in my code, but I have some places that your fingerscrolling will be much better21:59
fiferboyDrag and drop scrolling widgets come to mind...21:59
lbtworks on drag'n'drop too22:00
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lbtyou have to 'push and hold' to 'grab' an item22:00
lbtand 'touch and move' to scroll22:01
fiferboyI saw your video with drag'n'drop, quite impressive22:01
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lbtit's quite intuitive22:01
fiferboyAnd push and hold still works with context menu?22:01
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lbtno spinner in Qt though22:02
fiferboyI saw the email about that.  A spinner would be nice at some point.22:02
fiferboyIs the timeout for 'push and hold' configurable?22:03
lbtfiferboy: msged you the url22:04
lbtnot as such...22:04
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lbt(before my time that!)22:04
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fiferboyWhat is the timeout to pick up a dragable item versus the timeout for context menu?22:05
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yonkeltronso, is this the wrong place to ask about installing android on the nokia 810?22:05
Stskeeps-- sortof, #nitdroid also exists :)22:06
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lbtfiferboy: draggable ~0.2 sec ... click 2sec22:08
lbtyonkeltron: you want Mer instead... Android is for phones22:08
lbtfunny you should ask yonkeltron22:08
yonkeltronlbt: and i'm pretty sure android is moving off of phones22:08
yonkeltronlbt: enlighten me?22:08
Stskeepsyonkeltron: heh, and android on a netbook would be a nightmare to use22:09
* Stskeeps yawns and goes back to hacking22:09
* lbt shudders at the thought of it22:09
RST38hSts: depends22:09
* lbt stops yabbering and hits QTablet with a ./debian22:09
RST38hSts: one thing for sure - that netbook isn't gonna run Office =)22:09
lbtOh, Mer status FWIW ....
RST38hMaybe they are planning to place android into firmware and let it run in quick-boot mode?22:10
yonkeltronlbt: screenshots of mer, perhaps?22:11
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lbtyonkeltron: follow that link... I'd dig them up but my Qt upload is killing my connection22:11
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lbttry About22:12
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Stskeepsthat's old screenshots though22:13
Stskeepsmore recent22:13
RST38hfor god's sake, fix that purple22:14
lcukStskeeps, lbt, how on earth would mer cause doomsday22:14
lbtfailure to release?22:14
fiferboymer needs to be more orange...22:14
Stskeepslcuk: i can mention a couple of ways22:15 themed, eh? :P22:15
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yonkeltronmer seems nike22:22
yonkeltronnice, too22:22
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yonkeltronlbt: so, if i wanted to install mer, where would i start?22:24
yonkeltronalso, is there a list of Mer pages somewhere?22:25
lbt links to almost all of them.... dig around a bit...22:25
yonkeltronoh! it's there below22:26
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GAN8001Talking to Apple about meeting halfway. . . .22:37
lbtfiferboy: they're uploaded now22:39
fiferboylbt: Got them, thanks!22:39
lcukthe n800 just took a trip down the stairs22:40
fiferboyMy old Zaurus took a running leap onto a concrete sidewalk once22:41
VDVsxlcuk, np, it's a nokia :
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lcukooooh VDVsx22:45
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fiferboylbt: Your libraries use newer versions of certain packages (libgcc1, libstdc++6,etc) than Hildon does22:50
lbtaww - so they won't install?22:51
lbtthey're ubuntu9.04 based so that makes sens22:51
fiferboyNot with a clean dpkg, I'm going to try to force the depends22:51
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lbtfremantle Qt is configured  -opengl es2 \22:54
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Ko_deZHi all. I have just built a PC to put in my car, and I need a GUI for it. Maemo seems to hit the spot exactly. Can I install the maemo interface on any computer?22:55
fiferboyThey work fine if I force the depends22:55
lbtKo_deZ: yes....22:56
lbtfiferboy: cool22:56
Ko_deZIt is a core duo (not 64bit) regular computer (micro ATX) with a 7" touch-screen.22:56
lbtKo_deZ: you may want to look at Mer as a more open solution... community version of Mer22:56
lbtessentially Ubuntu with touch22:56
Ko_deZlbt: awsome. I tried googling for a guide, but did not find a whole lot.22:56
lbtand we almost have dl'able i58622:57
lbtit is alpha at the moment22:57
Ko_deZlbt: The main issue is that I need big icons and stuff. Should be able to change songs while driving. 7" and 800x480 is not a whole lot.22:57
fiferboylbt: Finger scrolling works as well as I could expect (great on small lists with no pics, clunky on huge lists with pics)22:57
Ko_deZlbt: Will look into Mer though. Thanks.22:57
lbtKo_deZ: it's the right answer IMHO22:57
lbtwe're on #mer22:57
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lbtfiferboy: yes - but a huge list is a bad ui22:58
lbtso fix that first ;)22:58
fiferboyWell, that is basically what my application does - lists.22:59
lbtsmaller lists ... ?22:59
lcukbig lists are amazing23:00
fiferboyI have options to filter down the list based on what you want to see, and break it up into sublists, but about half the time I want to see the whole list23:00
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lcuk"see" the whole list, or have all list items there to be scrollable23:01
lcuk"whoa dudes, check out my new 800*48000000000000 lcs23:01
fiferboylcuk: Have the whole list scrollable23:01
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lcukdid you know the bookreader in liqbase is just a listviewer23:01
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fiferboylbt: Selection works great, drag and drop is really impressive, having every scroll area automatically pannable is very refreshing.23:03
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lbtcool - comments to qt4-dev too ;)23:03
fiferboyI will.23:03
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fiferboyOnly case I have seen is when a widget is disabled it is still scrollable, even though it isn't with scroll bars.23:04
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RST38hHello, Andrewfblack23:05
RST38hAndrew: Sorry for a stupid question but where are the new shots of minimalist?23:05
AndrewfblackFirst post23:06
Andrewfblackthings have changed a little bit you can tell from first post what new menu looks like the other 3 have old menu on it23:06
AndrewfblackAnyone have any last menu ideas get them in now.  I'm going to be taking it out for a beta run soon.23:07
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fiferboylbt: QWebView widgets are not scrollable with your code.23:09
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lbtneed to do the same simple hack sometime soon23:10
fiferboyThought I would bring it up, as that is a useful place for finger scrolling.23:10
lbtyes, need to id all the widgets that can pan23:11
fiferboyAre there any others you know of that don't inherit QAbstractScrollArea?23:11
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xnt14hello world!23:12
xnt14im back from school23:12
* xnt14 wants his tablet back23:13
RST38hAndrew: The post author / date /etc can be shown in a single line23:14
RST38hAndrew: Also, I think there is no need to make it white, I would go for a thin 1-pixel frame around post header+body and a thin 1-pixel line separating header from the body23:15
RST38hAndrew: this way it is clear which header relates to which post23:15
RST38hAndrew: the number of top menu items can be reduced and their font size made smaller - right now they are bigger than titles on those shots23:16
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RST38hAndrew: Stuff like Bugs, Talk FAQ, Buddy List, Member List does not have to be there on top23:16
RST38hThese items are rarely used23:16
RST38hFor the top menu bar I would leave: Home | New | Today | Mark Read | User CP | Subscriptions23:17
RST38hDunno what Viaspy is so no opinion on that. "Today", "Subscriptions", "Mark Read" can be dropped if the total width becomes a problem (mobile)23:18
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RST38hThat's about all feedback.23:18
fiferboylbt: Do you have any plans or ideas to add a bounce or overshoot?  I notice Fremantle has one...23:18
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lbtI'd like to23:19
lbtfremantle gtk?23:19
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fiferboyIt does the "overshoot and scroll back" if I remember correctly.23:21
fiferboyI only tried it breifly in the SDK, though.23:21
lbtyes, 3 features: fingerscroll, bounce, smooth-single-item23:21
lbtbut I think we keep them separate23:22
lcukbest way to check out the sdk is with vcn on a tablet23:22
lbtto allow any ones to go in23:22
lcukbut can i ask, whats the deal with bouncing and overshooting - the list ended, it stopped23:22
fiferboysmooth-single-item is a good one23:22
fiferboyI'm thinking more for integration with Fremantle, to make the behaviour as close as possible.23:23
fiferboyBut other than that, I don't know.23:23
fiferboyBecause Apple does it?23:23
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pferrillanybody get the Freemantle Beta SDK running on Ubuntu 9.04?23:24
lbtit looks cool and sells devices23:24
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roopeGo ask Disney. :)23:25
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fiferboylbt: How are you going to keep them separate?23:26
lbtoh, just seperate patches I meant...23:26
lbtie make one work, then another, then another23:26
fiferboyAh, gotcha23:26
fiferboyRight, an incremental approach.23:27
lbtso they can be accepted individually if they aren't all ready in time23:27
lcukfiferboy, to use something my mother once said if apple jumped off a bridge would you follow?23:27
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fiferboyI send a (hopefully) rave review of the fingerscroll to qt4-dev23:27
lbtjust saw :)   Thanks!23:28
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fred23Hi !  I'd like to file a bug concerning the binutils_2.18.50 found on maemo freemantle pool... But I don't know which "product" to choose from bugzilla.maemo... Does "core" seem acceptable ?  thanx23:28
fiferboylcuk: I'm not saying we should do it because Apple did, but because Fremantle Gtk does and it would be nice to follow the UI23:28
lcukof course23:28
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fiferboyWhat if we push Apple off that bridge, though?23:28
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paul0Maemo uses cryptography to connect to gtalk and sip accounts?23:29
lcukthen you chuck oranges and melons and make a nice fruit salad at the bottom23:29
fiferboylbt: Thanks for letting me try the code.  Maybe I can make some contributions.23:29
fiferboyI've got to get going now, though.23:29
lcuk\o hi roope23:29
lbtwould be good .... l8r23:30
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fred23Hi !  I'd like to file a bug concerning the binutils_2.18.50 found on maemo freemantle pool... But I don't know which "product" to choose from bugzilla.maemo... Does "core" seem acceptable ?  thanx23:30
roopehi lcuk.23:30
Stskeepssomeone really needs to check if some people on Talk are taking their meds.23:31
Stskeepsand we need a FOAD button.23:32
lcukisnt that added to moderators interface :D23:32
roopeI'd only hope people would have more ... important things to talk about.23:32
Stskeepsplease release RX-51 so people will start drooling instead of bitching23:33
lcuklol roope, at least people are discussing things23:33
Stskeepsthis long wait is causing community psychosis, obviously ;)23:33
roopeGo and turn off the lights at your room if you want dark things. :)23:33
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roopeBut yes, that's true of course. rx-51.23:33
lcukbut then itt seems even brighter23:34
lcukStskeeps, could you make mer omap driver invert everything23:34
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Stskeepslcuk: .. anything's possible23:34
lcuko_O :D23:35
lcukyou have mer on beagle dont you23:35
Stskeepsnot at home and i think i erased my installation23:35
lcukhave others been testing it23:36
Stskeepsyeah, kozak for instance23:36
lcuktop banana23:36
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suihkulokkithe value of feedback from forums in general seems just way too low be worth reading23:37
* b-man trys to think of something that would be fun/useful for Mer that he could create23:37
lcukb-man, build an rx-51 from scratch that we can install mer into :)23:37
lcukmight be a bit fiddly soldering the transistors ontothe homemade omap3 chip23:38
Stskeepsb-man: did you sign up for mer-chatter yet?23:38
Stskeepsand be in #mer too if so :P23:39
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b-mani was thinking about a menu, kinda like gdm, but it would allow you to boot into different desktop environments23:39
Stskeepsnah - the idea is "Switch to LXDE" etc in powerlaunch menu.23:40
Stskeepsbest thing you can do right now is learn powerlaunch scripting23:40
Stskeepswe need someone who can do it23:40
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* b-man could try23:41
lcukdidnt the last person to do that go insane?23:41
Stskeepsbasically it's a language for tablet behaviour23:42
lcukwith the "switch to....." doesnt powerlaunch have to work in each WM?23:42
kfx...does the author of powerlaunch discuss anywhere why it has an app-specific scripting language23:42
Stskeepsentirely possible23:42
Stskeepskfx: because there's nothing quite like powerlaunch23:43
Stskeepsbut if you want the real reason: he's a computer scientist23:43
lcukkfx, because sometimes you head down a path and before you realise it you cannot easily change direction23:43
kfxokay that second one is way more believeable :)23:43
* b-man may go insane doing this, but he will continue insane or not XD23:44
Stskeepsb-man: ask me any questions you might have23:45
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Stskeepsread "Config file", "Namespaces", "Handlers"23:46
* b-man starts taking notes23:47
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b-manhello, xnt23:57
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