| *** glima[AWAY] is now known as glima | 00:01 | |
| elninja__ | My n810 seems a little looser on the right side than the left, when the keyboard is slid out... The top/bottom half jiggle a little on the right, but not on the left... Is this normal, or is it a sign that my device was poorly assembled and may have future problems? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| suihkulokki | people think that wimax is just like wifi (fast and free), but with better coverage | 00:01 |
| *** lpotter is now known as ljp | 00:01 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 00:02 |
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| jeremiah_ | I still think WiMax will lose to LTE. | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hope the RX-51 is better put together than the N810. | 00:02 |
| johnx | jeremiah_, so do I at this point. but I think there might be room for competition with fixed broadband in rural areas | 00:03 |
| jeremiah_ | johnx: Yeah, I suppose that might be an excellent way to use it. | 00:03 |
| jeremiah_ | But I have seen so many WiMax projects falter. | 00:03 |
| johnx | clearwire is doing that already with their draft-wimax network | 00:03 |
| elninja__ | GeneralAntilles, are you saying things like i noticed are common? | 00:04 |
| jeremiah_ | Here in 'telecom alley', they abandoned WiMax a while ago. | 00:04 |
| johnx | it's only compatible with their own branded wimax adapters though AFAIK | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | elninja__, no, just an idle observation. | 00:04 |
| elninja__ | ah | 00:05 |
| jeremiah_ | johnx: That is total FAIL - they have to support off the shelf stuff to succeed. | 00:05 |
| jeremiah_ | elninja__: I think my N810 is pretty well engineered frankly. I surprised to hear you are having problems. | 00:05 |
| johnx | jeremiah_, I dunno. if they're replacing/competing with DSL/cable service people kind of expect a "rent the modem" scenario | 00:05 |
| * Jaffa wonders about checking ITT/talk again before bed. | 00:05 | |
| suihkulokki | yeah, wimax (or rather, the fixed point variant of it) will be usefull for rural broadband | 00:05 |
| suihkulokki | but only when you put a wimax antenna on your roof | 00:06 |
| Jaffa | It's only going to depress me, isn't it (but Stskeeps' post talk intrigues me) | 00:06 |
| jeremiah_ | johnx: True, that is definitely true. | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I wasn't able to spot Stskeeps' post, just go to bed and save the depression. | 00:06 |
| johnx | but yeah, they really need to get their network updated to the real wimax/mobile wimax standard | 00:06 |
| * jeremiah_ Runs to read Stskeeps' talk post. | 00:06 | |
| johnx | I just think they are seeing a lot of cost and no immediate benefit | 00:07 |
| Jaffa | Wonderfully constructive new poll "Should talk.maemo.org create and support a dark theme like the original ITT?". | 00:07 |
| lcuk | #my only problem with themes is having to be logged in | 00:08 |
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| jeremiah_ | Jaffa: Yeah - I can't find Stskeeps' post either, URL? | 00:10 |
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| * GeneralAntilles is starving to death. | 00:11 | |
| johnx | the one on cost of enabling the MBX? | 00:12 |
| johnx | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283003#post283003 | 00:12 |
| luke-jr_ | http://dashjr.org/maps/wifi/ | 00:12 |
| * Jaffa wonders if SD69 is particularly pissed off as he's not been invited to be a mod. | 00:14 | |
| elninja__ | jeremiah_, well, I haven't had problems yet. I've only had it 1 day so far, but I noticed that it feels more fragile than I was expecting from new unit.(especially with the sliding mechanism) so far I am really interested in what I can do with the device once I get some time to play with the SDK. I've been burned in the past with devices that failed due to manufacturing defects, and don't want to do something that may void my warr | 00:15 |
| elninja__ | anty when I may need to use it. | 00:15 |
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| Jaffa | Ah, yeah - I saw Stskeeps' post on Weds. Good post indeed, Stskeeps++ | 00:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, either way, I sure aint inviting him. ;) | 00:16 |
| * Jaffa also wonders if qgil moderating the thread is going to help matters ;-) | 00:16 | |
| jeremiah_ | Stskeeps++ | 00:17 |
| lcuk | click the thanks button in itt lol | 00:17 |
| lcuk | we havent incorporated irc thanks yet ;) | 00:17 |
| Jaffa | Indeed | 00:17 |
| jeremiah_ | elninja__: Yeah, I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the quality and the usefulness of the device. :) At least I was and I hope you are too. | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~Stskeeps++ | 00:18 |
| lcuk | heh | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~karma Stskeeps | 00:18 |
| infobot | stskeeps has karma of 1 | 00:18 |
| lcuk | would anyone apart from you remember to put the ~ before | 00:18 |
| jeremiah_ | Stskeeps++ | 00:18 |
| jeremiah_ | Stskeeps++ | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~karma Stskeeps | 00:18 |
| infobot | stskeeps has karma of 1 | 00:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~Stskeeps++ | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~karma Stskeeps | 00:19 |
| jeremiah_ | Must.increase.his.karma | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~karma Stskeeps | 00:19 |
| infobot | stskeeps has karma of 2 | 00:19 |
| jeremiah_ | ~jeremiah | 00:19 |
| jeremiah_ | ~jeremiah karma | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 00:19 |
| jeremiah_ | I hate you infobot | 00:19 |
| * GeneralAntilles slaps jeremiah_ with the bot manual. | 00:19 | |
| jeremiah_ | Ouch! | 00:19 |
| jeremiah_ | :=) | 00:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__! | 00:19 |
| elninja__ | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17026 <-- cool. I guess this is normal... should have googled it earlier | 00:20 |
| lcuk | so 4 people agree and its "normal" | 00:20 |
| lcuk | do you have a clue? | 00:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need mods who can split threads. | 00:20 |
| elninja__ | lcuk, please enlighten me | 00:21 |
| luke-jr_ | ugh | 00:22 |
| * luke-jr_ boycotts ITT | 00:22 | |
| lcuk | well so far a few people in the world have swine flu, the way the media is reporting its as if we all have it | 00:22 |
| lcuk | thats like your observation | 00:22 |
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| luke-jr_ | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/snapshot42.png | 00:24 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Obviously one or more of those people may have accounts on ITT, so I reckon swine flu is an attempt by the maemo.org overlords (am I one?) to take over ITT | 00:25 |
| lbt | who does irc karma? | 00:25 |
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| * Jaffa considers starting a poll "Who finds themselves coming to these forums less after all the inane whining, rather than constructive action, over the change in theme?" - but that's probably not going to help | 00:26 | |
| * lbt wonders if #mer is part of the maemo community ;) | 00:26 | |
| jeremiah_ | Jaffa: Probably not -- but everyone involved should know they did a good job. | 00:26 |
| elninja__ | lcuk, I came in here to ask if anyone else had experienced this. I was hoping somebody would have some info. I googled it, and on the first page were several mentions of this problem. that thread was one of them where 4 out of 4 of the posts noticed this same quirk on their device. my statement about how I should have googled it was because I can found more info on it there than I did here. | 00:26 |
| jeremiah_ | I think th new site looks good. | 00:26 |
| lcuk | #mer is the technical part of the community at this point :) | 00:26 |
| * lbt agreees with Jaffa and is put of iTT by the bickering... | 00:27 | |
| lcuk | im put off by the brightness | 00:27 |
| Jaffa | ~jeremiah_++ | 00:27 |
| lcuk | and lack of focus | 00:27 |
| Jaffa | s/focus/bacon/ | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | sjgadsby would be an awesme itT mod IMHO | 00:27 |
| lcuk | heh | 00:27 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: seen his twitter status? | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | *awesome | 00:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa: nope :) | 00:27 |
| lcuk | elninja__, ive got 2 n810s here and the slide out drawer acts just the same as it does on both and as on my slider phones and on my kitchen drawers | 00:28 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: http://twitter.com/sjgadsby/status/1672748359 | 00:28 |
| lbt | elninja__: actually your sample is such that all you've identified is that you're not alone... OTOH, given the quick response that means it's likely a design feature .... don't worry but keep an eye on it | 00:28 |
| luke-jr_ | Jaffa: put the poll somewhere off ITT, so those of us who don't go to ITT can vote | 00:28 |
| lbt | my keyboard is absolutely rock solid though | 00:29 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr_: The only obvious place is maemo.org, but that'd just feed the conspiracy | 00:29 |
| jeremiah_ | Ooh, ooh, I wanna follow andre__ on Twitter! | 00:29 |
| lcuk | if i knew how to make a poll i would make a poll asking people what poll they want to post in | 00:29 |
| jeremiah_ | What is his handle? | 00:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa: lol, thanks for the link... | 00:29 |
| * Jaffa is now, honestly, looking forward to 2 weeks camping and avoiding all this stupidity. | 00:29 | |
| luke-jr_ | heh | 00:29 |
| jeremiah_ | lcuk: Face it, you would ask about liqbase. :) | 00:30 |
| lcuk | where u camping jaffa | 00:30 |
| johnx | lcuk, I liked the "Do you vote in polls?" poll. I think "No" won ... | 00:30 |
| luke-jr_ | well, maybe someone should have checked that the design actually works before deploying it | 00:30 |
| lcuk | jeremiah_, not at all i do that enough face to face :) | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Normandy (well, camping ~= static Eurocamp caravan) | 00:30 |
| luke-jr_ | Jaffa: maemo.org is somewhat broken too | 00:30 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, fine. I'll bite: What doesn't it work on? | 00:30 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: the top-menu thing is screwed up across both sites | 00:31 |
| jeremiah_ | Jaffa: Cool! You're in France? Vive la France! | 00:31 |
| luke-jr_ | for ITT, the actual posts are on like page 3 | 00:31 |
| luke-jr_ | http://luke.dashjr.org/tmp/snapshot42.png | 00:31 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, did you submit a bug report? | 00:31 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: nope | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeesh, broken browser. | 00:31 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, why? | 00:31 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: most standards-compliant browser on the market | 00:31 |
| lcuk | shame the websites dont follow standards | 00:32 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah_: Oui, je peut parle un petit peu de francais, mais "mon fils as une allegee aux oeufs et aux lait" est difficile | 00:32 |
| johnx | is that arora? | 00:32 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: Konqueror | 00:32 |
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| lcuk | i get to see my finger tomorrow :O | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's going to have turned into a butterfly. | 00:33 |
| luke-jr_ | LOL | 00:33 |
| lcuk | im hoping for a stylus tip tbh | 00:33 |
| lcuk | its gonna hurt like a bitch when they take stitches out :'( | 00:33 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: heh | 00:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, pic or it didn't happen. | 00:35 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, is there a reason you came to IRC to complain instead of filing a bug report? | 00:35 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: IRC was open | 00:35 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/fingerfriendly.jpg | 00:35 |
| lcuk | thats the worksafe one :) | 00:35 |
| lcuk | i have the actual photos | 00:35 |
| lcuk | and im taking camera tomorrow :$ | 00:35 |
| jeremiah_ | Jaffa: Merde! | 00:35 |
| jeremiah_ | But I think allegee means "frozen underpants" | 00:36 |
| lcuk | johnx, its 10000000000% easier moaning in irc, we know that already | 00:36 |
| jeremiah_ | I could be mistaken. | 00:36 |
| jeremiah_ | Still, if you don't like eggs and milk, you're SOL in France. | 00:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want to work on Bugzilla. :( | 00:37 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah_: true (on all counts, I *think* allergée is correct; but will check ;-)) | 00:37 |
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| * Jaffa will, fortunately, only have to speak & listen. | 00:37 | |
| Jaffa | "Grande biere, s'il vous plait" :-) | 00:37 |
| Jaffa | "Une bouteille du vin rouge" | 00:38 |
| lcuk | even i understand that :D | 00:38 |
| * lcuk normally needs translations into northern | 00:38 | |
| Jaffa | "Bottl' of best, Betty" | 00:38 |
| Jaffa | "...and a pie" | 00:39 |
| lcuk | no bacon? | 00:39 |
| Jaffa | Chicken and bacon pie ;-) | 00:40 |
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| luke-jr_ | johnx: didn't expect an actual answer? :p | 00:40 |
| jeremiah_ | Merci a vous Madame. | 00:40 |
| jeremiah_ | Ceci delicieux. | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah_: tres bien | 00:40 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, so out of curiosity, what does konqueror get on the acid test these days? | 00:40 |
| jeremiah_ | C'est quai? Une chien? | 00:40 |
| jeremiah_ | MERDE! | 00:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | You crazy people want #maemo-fr. :P | 00:40 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah_: all your French seems to conclude with swear words ;-) | 00:41 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: the highest score | 00:41 |
| jeremiah_ | Jaffa: Well, you know, they are the easiest to learn. =) | 00:41 |
| luke-jr_ | Firefox 3.0.10: 71/100 | 00:41 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, webkit gets 100/100. Are you saying konqueror gets higher? :P | 00:41 |
| luke-jr_ | Konqueror 4.2.2: 87/100 | 00:41 |
| luke-jr_ | Opera 9.64: 85/100 | 00:42 |
| luke-jr_ | Safari 3.2.2: 75/100 | 00:42 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: Scm versions don't count ;) | 00:42 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, even if they're part of a released browser? | 00:42 |
| luke-jr_ | I don't use scm KDE | 00:42 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: what released browser? | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah_: c'est vrai | 00:42 |
| luke-jr_ | Wikipedia has Safari 3.2.2 as latest Webkit | 00:42 |
| luke-jr_ | oh, sorry | 00:43 |
| luke-jr_ | Chrome 1.0: 79/100 | 00:43 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah_: Google says "allergique" FWIW | 00:43 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, heh. just watched tear on my n800 get 96/100 | 00:44 |
| luke-jr_ | wtf is tear | 00:44 |
| johnx | let me send you a link to the thread on itt | 00:45 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: I won't read it if it's on ITT | 00:45 |
| jeremiah_ | Jaffa: I suspected alergee was a bit of Franglais. :) | 00:45 |
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| johnx | try a working browser that's standards compliant like arora | 00:45 |
| johnx | or file a bug report | 00:45 |
| johnx | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28539&highlight=tear | 00:45 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: ah, so ITT is officially only supported in non-released browsers? | 00:45 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah, try a working browser like friggin' pork-sandwich. | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | luke-jr_: Don't be dramatic; it works in firefox - there's obviously a glitch. It's hardly personal ;-) | 00:46 |
| luke-jr_ | Firefox sucks ;) | 00:46 |
| jeremiah_ | The Interwebs hate me. | 00:47 |
| Jaffa | At a first glance, my opinion of Konqueror's not much better ;-) | 00:47 |
| jeremiah_ | That I know for sure. | 00:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah_, >:| | 00:47 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah_: They're powered by computers, right? They all hate me. | 00:47 |
| jeremiah_ | GeneralAntilles: Uh oh. | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Technology is the worst. | 00:47 |
| jeremiah_ | Is that emoticon meant to mean; "I am very disappointed in you."? | 00:47 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, it works on basically *every* other browser besides konqueror. what is the most likely explanation here? | 00:48 |
| luke-jr_ | every other browser has a bug that it abuses? ;) | 00:48 |
| luke-jr_ | or it has a bug that every other browser fails to expose | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah_, that's the internets hating you. :P | 00:48 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, I'm ignoring you now | 00:48 |
| luke-jr_ | the latter case is pretty common, actually | 00:48 |
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| jeremiah_ | GeneralAntilles: Phew! I thought you were mad at me. | 00:49 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: most other browsers do undefined behaviour the same | 00:49 |
| luke-jr_ | Konqueror doesn't define undefined behaviour | 00:49 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, why don't you *file a bug* | 00:50 |
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| luke-jr_ | johnx: maybe I will | 00:50 |
| luke-jr_ | at least bugs.maemo.org works | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, things should work or they should be fixed by telepathy, duh. | 00:50 |
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| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: is there an update to telepathy fixing that Jabber bug? | 00:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Seems like the reason most people hate orange is because they've got crappy LCDs. | 00:59 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, so the answer is to send out new LCDs with the theme :) | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I'm totally into Nokia paying for that. | 01:01 |
| luke-jr_ | lol | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | IPS, please! | 01:01 |
| johnx | not at the expense of sending people to hackfests/summits :P | 01:01 |
| johnx | or sending people development machines O_o; | 01:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I was thinking at the expense of S60, personally. | 01:02 |
| johnx | ok, works for me | 01:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm kinda excited about the N97, now. | 01:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Assuming the low-end processor brings a lower price tag | 01:04 |
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| johnx | heh | 01:04 |
| Stskeeps | why all the highlights? :P | 01:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps | 01:05 |
| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: are you highlighting on "I"? | 01:05 |
| svu | does anyone know how to get the location (supplied by carman) from jabber? | 01:05 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, that's what happens when you say something people agree with. | 01:05 |
| luke-jr_ | svu: eh? | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr_: no, stskeeps or sts | 01:06 |
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| gnuton | Hi there! | 01:06 |
| svu | luke-jr_, carman is using my jabber account. I presume it is able to share my location, isn't it? So I would love to know how to use that feature | 01:06 |
| luke-jr_ | svu: I wouldn't assume that XD | 01:07 |
| svu | luke-jr_, what is XD? | 01:08 |
| luke-jr_ | … | 01:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | svu, memory card format. ;) | 01:09 |
| luke-jr_ | sigh | 01:09 |
| svu | brrr. I am lost | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | svu, first definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XD | 01:09 |
| svu | what does my question about carman have to do with card format? | 01:10 |
| luke-jr_ | nothing | 01:10 |
| svu | oops, I am just slow. It was just a smile, I guess:) | 01:11 |
| svu | well, anyway, what exactly carman is doing in jabber. other than logging in? | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | svu, maybe try #canola | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Although they're probably idle at the moment. | 01:12 |
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| svu | why not.... | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or there's the Carman mailing list. | 01:12 |
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| luke-jr_ | svu: do you REALLY want the world to know where you are constantly? | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://carman.garage.maemo.org/ | 01:12 |
| svu | luke-jr_, well, my friends can have that info. why not? | 01:13 |
| svu | (when I gps on, of course) | 01:13 |
| svu | and when I am late, that is a good alibi for my wife:)) | 01:14 |
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| luke-jr_ | i c | 01:14 |
| * svu just invented that kind of usage. really cool feature imho! | 01:15 | |
| luke-jr_ | patent it? | 01:16 |
| svu | sure | 01:16 |
| luke-jr_ | aww | 01:16 |
| luke-jr_ | can I have a license plz? | 01:16 |
| svu | we'll negotiate it later:) | 01:16 |
| luke-jr_ | :/ | 01:16 |
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| paul0 | how do i find out which mobile phones i can use as modem for N800? | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically anything that reasonably supports DUN. | 01:34 |
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| johnx | list here, but it's far from complete: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_network_enabled_cell_phones | 01:35 |
| johnx | also, it might vary by carrier for branded phones | 01:35 |
| paul0 | thanks :) | 01:36 |
| paul0 | i've found the Samsung Zv30, which has bluetooth and support 3G | 01:36 |
| johnx | if it can tether to anything else, chances are good it can tether to the n8x0 | 01:37 |
| paul0 | hm.. | 01:38 |
| paul0 | anyway, 3G is quite expensive here, maybe i'll just get some GPRS enabled mobile | 01:40 |
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| Jaffa | paul0: here == ? | 01:55 |
| paul0 | Jaffa, yes | 01:56 |
| paul0 | oh | 01:57 |
| paul0 | Jaffa, here == Brazil | 01:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr_, you're kidding, right? | 01:59 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: ? | 01:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not a bug report, that's a joke. | 01:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You expect whoever you want to fix this for you to just guess what browser you're using? | 01:59 |
| luke-jr_ | it's on the stupid titlebar | 02:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's really not. | 02:00 |
| luke-jr_ | wtf | 02:00 |
| luke-jr_ | it was for me :/ | 02:00 |
| luke-jr_ | weird | 02:00 |
| Jaffa | paul0: Ah, OK :) The specific place might have people here who could help :) | 02:01 |
| luke-jr_ | mayeb I need to report a bug for KSnapshot too | 02:01 |
| luke-jr_ | but how the heck did it do that? :/ | 02:01 |
| johnx | you also need to actually provide a description of the problem, and a proper title | 02:01 |
| Jaffa | And if the bug report for KSnapshot's buggered, you'll have to report a bug against your browser... and that way recursive madness will lie ;-) | 02:02 |
| luke-jr_ | XD | 02:02 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, seriously, this is the perfect way to make sure your bug isn't given any attention | 02:02 |
| luke-jr_ | hum | 02:03 |
| luke-jr_ | I can reproduce one minor part of the bug in Firefox 3.1 ;) | 02:04 |
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| luke-jr_ | FWIW, Marble is not usable for driving | 02:05 |
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| GAN800 | Awesome, more Nokia conspiracies | 02:11 |
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| Jaffa | Yup. | 02:17 |
| johnx | I'd like to hear Nokia's conspiracy theories about the community for once. It's the side of the story that's never examined | 02:17 |
| Jaffa | heh | 02:17 |
| Jaffa | Sit in one of the "let's just ship a bug fix containing this patch we got from the community" meetings. | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn, how the hell do I hg clone MXR/ | 02:18 |
| Jaffa | Bound to be loads of them ;-) | 02:18 |
| lcuk | if the patch is for a codebase the nokian engineers know and can verify i really dont see it as a problem | 02:21 |
| *** gnuton is now known as Gnu[OFF] | 02:21 | |
| Jaffa | lcuk: That's because you're part of the conspiracy, dude! | 02:21 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:21 |
| Jaffa | Bloody maemo.org/midgard falls over when you ask for the last page (599 according to the page) of the profile list. | 02:22 |
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| * Jaffa beds as the firestorm on ITT settles down (go Reggie!) | 02:33 | |
| Jaffa | [shock: it wasn't a conspiracy] | 02:33 |
| roope | The new theme is a lot nicer than the old one. Blah for the bickering. :) | 02:37 |
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| roope | People just hate change in general. | 02:38 |
| lcuk | roope, it was less the colors and more the meta info gettin in the way - thats been tweaked now and i can invert my eyes and cope ;) | 02:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | roope, hey, if they hate this, it's looking like they'll end up loving Maemo 5. ;) | 02:42 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, so, will we have another maemo.org color change to match maemo 5? :D | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | I sure as hell hope not. | 02:42 |
| roope | Maemo 5 will be invisible. | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | This one was painful enough. | 02:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | roope, ah, going after the blind market? ;) | 02:42 |
| roope | With a huge d-pad. | 02:43 |
| johnx | hopefully now we can keep the same layout and people can make themes | 02:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd love to see that braille ebook reader. | 02:43 |
| johnx | I'd love to see a decent d-pad | 02:43 |
| luke-jr_ | roope: the new theme is broken | 02:44 |
| roope | Well, making it darker won't fix anything. | 02:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | roope, his browser doesn't like it, apparently. | 02:44 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, how's that bug coming along? | 02:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Who the hell thinks Wikipedia is hard to navigate? :\ | 02:49 |
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| Proteous | who navigates on wikipedia? | 02:58 |
| Proteous | I just go to a page from google | 02:58 |
| Proteous | google is my wiki guide | 02:59 |
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| sp3000 | I wish wikipedia was hard to navigate | 03:06 |
| sp3000 | as it is it's all a huge slippery slope into a gaping timesink | 03:06 |
| sp3000 | where you wake up on the other side several hours later | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 03:07 |
| lcuk | when i download the source with apt so i can work on it, where is the most common location to put it | 03:07 |
| lcuk | is there a general convention | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | sp3000, ever played 5 Degrees of Jesus? :P | 03:07 |
| sp3000 | don't think so | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Start with Special:Random then try to get to the article on Jesus in five clicks or less. | 03:08 |
| johnx | lcuk, if you apt-get source foo, then it ends up in ./ | 03:08 |
| lcuk | yeah johnx, but do ppl use a logical set of folders or just randomly drop source everywhere | 03:09 |
| sp3000 | oh, darn, I can't start at jesus and thry to find my way to teletubbies in five steps or less? :) | 03:09 |
| johnx | I tend to keep a projects/mer/working directory | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | sp3000, that sounds impossible. | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I'd sure like to see it. :P | 03:10 |
| lcuk | /projects or ~/projects? | 03:10 |
| johnx | ~/projects | 03:10 |
| johnx | I used to have really elaborate organization in ~/ :) | 03:10 |
| lcuk | like i have an ~/svn on most machines then | 03:10 |
| lcuk | even tho i use git now | 03:11 |
| johnx | that makes sense. also, remember the power of symlinks :) | 03:11 |
| lcuk | yeah im just thinking about something | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, ping? | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or sp3000. | 03:11 |
| lcuk | i want to build and run liqbase on all machines as i make changes | 03:11 |
| lcuk | im thinking about running a net deamon to listen to the git commits | 03:12 |
| lcuk | and pull down and build/run :) | 03:12 |
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| lcuk | the daemon might itself be a liqbase module ;) | 03:12 |
| sp3000 | well, I got to vermin; not quite teletubbies, but, ...eh | 03:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | sp3000, how do I hg clone MXR? | 03:13 |
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| sp3000 | I'm not too sure where the various versions might live | 03:15 |
| sp3000 | timeless knows of course, he'll probably be available in 19 hours or so | 03:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK | 03:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Now if andre__ would just get me the testzilla. . . . :P | 03:16 |
| sp3000 | http://hg.mozilla.org/webtools/mxr/ would be one answer I bet | 03:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I need the Maemo one though for the Maemo layout. | 03:18 |
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| Proteous | the snauseberries taste like snauseberries | 03:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Snozzberries? Who ever heard of a snozzberry? | 03:23 |
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| Xamusk | is there some way to watch flash videos not from youtube? | 03:30 |
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| Xamusk | with good performance? | 03:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, most of them are way too heavy. | 03:34 |
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| Xamusk | GeneralAntilles, I just find it interesting that specialized youtube players can play them much better | 03:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, Flash on Linux is awful. Flash on Linux ARM is worse. | 03:35 |
| sp3000 | GeneralAntilles: ok, Akimbo (disambiguation) > Akimbo (band) > Seattle,_Washington > Seattle_University > Society_of_Jesus > Jesus | 03:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | sp3000, nice. | 03:35 |
| Xamusk | GeneralAntilles, indeed :( | 03:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, maybe there's hope with HTML 5, maybe once Adobe ships official Linux ARM support. I don't know. | 03:36 |
| Xamusk | GeneralAntilles, I don't know, since flash eats a lot of the cpu even in full-blown laptops | 03:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, Flash is pretty bad on Windows and just gets worse anywhere else. | 03:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | mplayer can do FLVs pretty well, but you gotta feed 'em to it somehow. | 03:37 |
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| Xamusk | GeneralAntilles, actually, I couldn't play an flv I had downloaded in maemo's mplayer, even though it plays fine in my laptop | 03:38 |
| boomre | someone have a good link about color swatch theme and all different colors for ui theme? | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, there was an FLV bug in one of the mplayer versions, I think. | 03:39 |
| Xamusk | GeneralAntilles, well, I just downloaded mine from the repo today | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | It hasn't been updated in a while, so maybe there still is. | 03:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure. | 03:40 |
| Xamusk | ok | 03:40 |
| Xamusk | for now I'm converting everything :( | 03:40 |
| Xamusk | so I have to download in the laptop, convert, transfer and only then play :( which is pretty awful | 03:40 |
| boomre | any idea where i can get more info about every part in this chart | 03:41 |
| boomre | http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6154/55528692.png | 03:41 |
| boomre | iam a french so i have difficult to understand every color vs every result in maemo | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | boomre, maybe the ThemeMaker documentation? | 03:41 |
| boomre | i try to find a good link for complete info about this sheme | 03:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://thememaker.garage.maemo.org/ | 03:42 |
| boomre | no i dont find it | 03:42 |
| boomre | the point is i cant figure out what colors is for what cause iam french so its hard to me | 03:42 |
| boomre | just whit name is too hard | 03:42 |
| boomre | so i wanna find something where all color/parts is more explained | 03:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know of anything off-hand. | 03:43 |
| Xamusk | how do I unmount the sd cards? | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Open up the doors | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which works unless they're in-use. | 03:44 |
| boomre | + because nothing is here for more explain i need to built a little pictured tutorial for explain all part | 03:44 |
| boomre | whit picture of a scrennshot of every part | 03:45 |
| boomre | in the context | 03:45 |
| boomre | anyway | 03:45 |
| boomre | tx general | 03:45 |
| boomre | always good help for you | 03:45 |
| Xamusk | doors? | 03:45 |
| boomre | i know you are a master | 03:45 |
| boomre | woot | 03:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, um, the card covers. | 03:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | They've got little magnets that tell the OS when they're open. | 03:45 |
| Xamusk | GeneralAntilles, this is quite unusual, specially for the external one | 03:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xamusk, assuming that the filesystem isn't actively in use it will attempt to unmount it when you open the cover. | 03:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | and warn you if it fails. | 03:47 |
| Xamusk | cool | 03:47 |
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| AndrewFBlack | Hello | 04:52 |
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| * AndrewFBlack bangs head on the wall | 04:55 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, I put mine through it earlier today. :P | 04:56 |
| AndrewFBlack | I just don't understand this whole theme thing | 04:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apparently there's a conspiracy involved somehow. | 04:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Would you like to join? :P | 04:57 |
| AndrewFBlack | Don't think they will take me on there side I'm getting attacked for changing Minmalist theme now lol | 04:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Join the conspirators and do evil, then. ;) | 04:59 |
| AndrewFBlack | You would think I picked the colors my self by the way some are acting | 04:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Honestly I'd do an inverted scheme if it's not a ton of effort. | 05:00 |
| *** antognolli[AWAY] is now known as antognolli | 05:00 | |
| AndrewFBlack | So GeneralAntilles now that new site is out time for file hosting on maemo.org | 05:00 |
| AndrewFBlack | GeneralAntilles a striaght inverted colors on bottom I could do in 30 minutes | 05:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably, I think there's actually a Midgard module that may be able to help. | 05:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you have any particularly concrete ideas about how it should operate and the free time a wiki task would be great. | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | If not, I think I can hash something together this week. | 05:02 |
| AndrewFBlack | where to put it in the wiki? | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Task:File_hosting_on_maemo.org would be good. | 05:02 |
| AndrewFBlack | thats my problem with wikis I never know where to put the stuff lol | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stick {{task|proposed}} at the top. | 05:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Then just write up a simple outline for what you'd like to see and we can start figuring it out. | 05:03 |
| AndrewFBlack | ok | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe put some use-cases that it'd fulfill, too. | 05:03 |
| AndrewFBlack | I think I might make a garage project for minimalist theme to keep track of bugs and such in it | 05:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you want to file Minimalist bugs in Talk on b.m.o that'd be fine. | 05:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | SVN sounds good, though. | 05:04 |
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| AndrewFBlack | ok I got a little something up | 05:28 |
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| AndrewFBlack | found a bug in theme wish I wasn't to lazy to go post it lol | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | AndrewFBlack, awesome, thanks. I'll try to flesh it out and advertise it a bit next week. | 05:32 |
| AndrewFBlack | thanks | 05:32 |
| Macer | hello | 05:33 |
| Macer | watching serenity | 05:34 |
| Macer | good movie but could have been better | 05:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Love that movie. | 05:34 |
| Macer | yeah .. the show was good | 05:35 |
| Macer | too bad they cancelled it after a few episodes | 05:35 |
| AndrewFBlack | it mad full season didn't like liek 12 | 05:35 |
| Macer | huh? | 05:36 |
| AndrewFBlack | like 12 episodes | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not enough | 05:36 |
| locutus | to many | 05:36 |
| Macer | thought it was like 15 | 05:36 |
| Macer | and the movie | 05:36 |
| locutus | TO MANY | 05:36 |
| locutus | :-( | 05:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | locutus, Go to many? | 05:37 |
| b-man | lol | 05:37 |
| locutus | GeneralAntilles: i did not like Firefly ;-) | 05:37 |
| locutus | (I'M NOT A BITTER SCIFI GROGNARD, NO SIR) | 05:37 |
| b-man | XD | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/to/too/ | 05:38 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: locutus, Go too many? | 05:38 |
| AndrewFBlack | I can't beleave I lost my micro sd card | 05:38 |
| locutus | infobot: huh what? | 05:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 05:39 |
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| b-man | hahahahaha | 05:39 |
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| *** b-man is now known as FireFox | 05:55 | |
| *** FireFox is now known as b-man | 05:55 | |
| *** pcfe` is now known as pcfe | 05:59 | |
| *** speeksts has joined #maemo | 06:00 | |
| speeksts | :P | 06:00 |
| xnt | hmm | 06:01 |
| * xnt notices that speeksts is stskeeps spelled backwards | 06:01 | |
| speeksts | lol | 06:01 |
| b-man | lol | 06:02 |
| * xnt wonders is stskeeps is awake | 06:02 | |
| *** man_in_shack has joined #maemo | 06:02 | |
| * man_in_shack waves | 06:02 | |
| man_in_shack | i have an odd issue with chat on maemo | 06:02 |
| speeksts | hi | 06:03 |
| xnt | hi | 06:03 |
| b-man | ~seen stskeeps | 06:03 |
| infobot | stskeeps is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 42 messages. Is idling for 4h 57m 34s, last said: 'luke-jr_: no, stskeeps or sts'. | 06:03 |
| man_in_shack | i can send people messages and they get them fine, but when they respond it goes to a different resource (when another client is logged in) | 06:03 |
| b-man | hehe | 06:03 |
| xnt | lol | 06:03 |
| xnt | mis: ? | 06:03 |
| xnt | i dont get it | 06:04 |
| man_in_shack | you don't get me? | 06:04 |
| b-man | XD | 06:04 |
| xnt | no I just wonder why it would do that | 06:05 |
| man_in_shack | yeah | 06:05 |
| man_in_shack | it's consistent though. keeps coming up on my desktop | 06:05 |
| *** tnx has joined #maemo | 06:08 | |
| xnt | wtf? | 06:08 |
| xnt | tnx = xnt spelled backwards? | 06:08 |
| tnx | what? | 06:08 |
| xnt | tnx = xnt spelled backwards | 06:09 |
| tnx | yeah, thats my nick | 06:09 |
| man_in_shack | mibbit is evil | 06:10 |
| * speeksts watches | 06:10 | |
| * xnt hate mibbit | 06:10 | |
| xnt | * hates | 06:10 |
| *** kcahs_ni_nam has joined #maemo | 06:11 | |
| kcahs_ni_nam | HI! | 06:12 |
| * xnt notices that kcahs_ni_nam is man in shack spelled backwards? imposters? | 06:12 | |
| * kcahs_ni_nam pokes man_in_shack | 06:13 | |
| * xnt is sick of these imposters | 06:13 | |
| * tnx shoves xnt | 06:14 | |
| * kcahs_ni_nam laughs | 06:14 | |
| * xnt kicks tnx in the stomach as he falls | 06:14 | |
| * tnx recovers and then stabs xnt | 06:15 | |
| * kcahs_ni_nam joins in | 06:15 | |
| * b-man joins i | 06:16 | |
| b-man | n | 06:16 |
| * xnt dies then comes back from the dead as a zombie vampire | 06:16 | |
| * kcahs_ni_nam stabs tnx | 06:17 | |
| b-man | lol | 06:17 |
| * tnx shoots kcahs_ni_nam before he dies | 06:18 | |
| xnt | rofl | 06:18 |
| * kcahs_ni_nam turns into a zombe | 06:18 | |
| kcahs_ni_nam | *zombie | 06:18 |
| * speeksts cuts xnt's head off | 06:19 | |
| kcahs_ni_nam | lolololololololololol | 06:19 |
| b-man | lol | 06:19 |
| * xnt walks up to speeksts and chokes him to death | 06:19 | |
| kcahs_ni_nam | ~nuke everyone | 06:20 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at everyone ... B☢☢M! | 06:20 | |
| xnt | WTF? *dies again* | 06:20 |
| b-man | haha | 06:20 |
| xnt | ~nuke tnx | 06:20 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at tnx ... B☢☢M! | 06:20 | |
| xnt | ~nuke mibbit | 06:21 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at mibbit ... B☢☢M! | 06:21 | |
| xnt | ~nuke infobot | 06:21 |
| b-man | omg XD | 06:21 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at infobot ... B☢☢M! | 06:21 | |
| xnt | :P | 06:21 |
| b-man | ~nuke himself | 06:21 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at himself ... B☢☢M! | 06:21 | |
| xnt | lol | 06:21 |
| b-man | XD | 06:21 |
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| b-man | ~burn himself | 06:22 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 06:22 | |
| xnt | ~burn stevebalmer | 06:22 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over stevebalmer, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 06:22 | |
| *** des^ has joined #maemo | 06:22 | |
| xnt | ~blow up microsoft | 06:22 |
| * infobot blows up microsoft | 06:22 | |
| b-man | :) | 06:23 |
| * xnt randomly wants to kill des^ | 06:23 | |
| xnt | ~kill des^ | 06:23 |
| * infobot shoots a ionized fluxquark gun at des^ | 06:23 | |
| xnt | :P | 06:23 |
| b-man | lol | 06:23 |
| xnt | randomness | 06:23 |
| xnt | ~kill everyone | 06:24 |
| * infobot shoots a hyper-charged electron gun at everyone | 06:24 | |
| b-man | XD | 06:24 |
| xnt | ~attack tnx | 06:24 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing tnx | 06:24 | |
| speeksts | ~attack xnt | 06:24 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing xnt | 06:24 | |
| xnt | ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh | 06:24 |
| b-man | xD | 06:24 |
| man_in_shack | ~sell xnt on ebay | 06:26 |
| * infobot sells xnt on ebay to a passing bunch of Ishmaelites | 06:26 | |
| Davide | Hey I have a question, I have cloned to my SD card, but failed to create a swap partition. I made a linux partition 1gb for the os, and 1 fat partition 1gb for storage. I now want to split that fat partition into a swap and a storage partition. | 06:26 |
| kcahs_ni_nam | ~hump | 06:26 |
| radic__ | If I want to compile module-init-tools staticly I have to run configure withe --enable-static? | 06:26 |
| * infobot humps the channel | 06:26 | |
| Davide | how would I do that using sfdisk and without hurtin my boot partition? | 06:26 |
| xnt | Davide: usb or on device | 06:26 |
| man_in_shack | Davide, cfdisk may be a better tool for you | 06:27 |
| Davide | on device | 06:27 |
| man_in_shack | oh | 06:27 |
| man_in_shack | fun times | 06:27 |
| xnt | ~sell man_in_shack on craigslist | 06:27 |
| * infobot sells man_in_shack on craigslist to a passing bunch of Ishmaelites | 06:27 | |
| Davide | how do I get cfdisk? just apt-get install cfdisk? | 06:27 |
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| b-man | lol XD | 06:27 |
| Davide | what repository is it in? | 06:27 |
| xnt | Davide: well I don't know try it | 06:27 |
| xnt | ~attack Davide out of randomness | 06:28 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing Davide out of randomness | 06:28 | |
| xnt | lol | 06:28 |
| Davide | lol | 06:28 |
| b-man | lol | 06:28 |
| xnt | ~attack brian | 06:28 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing brian | 06:28 | |
| Davide | hey another question I am new to linux... but once I create a swap partition it will be recognized automatically as the swap? | 06:28 |
| b-man | :O | 06:28 |
| Davide | the OS will use it? | 06:28 |
| xnt | Davide: yeah | 06:28 |
| Davide | ok | 06:29 |
| xnt | as far a i remember | 06:29 |
| xnt | *as | 06:29 |
| * b-man runs from infobot | 06:29 | |
| xnt | ~burn channel | 06:29 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over channel, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 06:29 | |
| xnt | ~burn the channel | 06:29 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over the channel, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 06:29 | |
| * b-man jumps ship | 06:30 | |
| * xnt gets on a helicopter | 06:30 | |
| * xnt sends robotic sharks after b-man | 06:30 | |
| Davide | xnt couldn't find package cfdisk | 06:30 |
| radic__ | Davide: the best way for you is to create a image of an swap-partition | 06:30 |
| Davide | radic__ how would I do that? | 06:30 |
| * b-man jumps into a jet | 06:30 | |
| * xnt sends the hawx squadron from hawx the game after bman | 06:31 | |
| Davide | can I ruin the current boot partition on the SD?? | 06:31 |
| Davide | I want to avoid that | 06:31 |
| xnt | brb | 06:31 |
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| Davide | I was trying to use sfdisk to do this but got stumped because I don't quite understand how fdisk works... | 06:32 |
| Davide | my current FAT partition is mmcblk0p1, and my linux boot partition is mmcblk0p2. When I run fdisk, it will ask me in sequence to assign sectors to the partitions. this means I will have to re-assigne the linus partition? and then assign swap in the 3rd position mmcblk0p3?? | 06:32 |
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| Davide | and what kind of file system is swap? is it ext2 like the linux partition? | 06:34 |
| radic__ | dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs=SIZE count=1 | 06:34 |
| radic__ | mkswap swap.img | 06:34 |
| radic__ | swapon swap.img | 06:34 |
| man_in_pda | Davide, it's swap | 06:34 |
| Davide | radic__ could you explain what those commands do because I don't want to risk killing my boot partition... | 06:35 |
| radic__ | Davide: replace SIZE of the wanted size in bytes of your swap... | 06:35 |
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| Davide | ok but where will it take the space from on the card? | 06:35 |
| Davide | it's not gonna ruin the OS partition like that? | 06:35 |
| radic__ | Davide: withe dd you write zeros from /dev/zero to swap.img, bs limits the size of swap.img | 06:35 |
| radic__ | withe mkswap you create the swap"filesystem" in swap.img | 06:36 |
| radic__ | and with swapon you "mount" the swap | 06:36 |
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| radic__ | that's my preffered way to get a swap partition if I need more space oder If I fergot to create it | 06:37 |
| Davide | radic__ what do you mean "you write zeros from /dev/zero to swap.img"? and I understand limiting the size, but where will it take the space from on the card? how do I know it won't partition from the wrong spot? | 06:38 |
| Davide | right now there is the fat partition mmcblk0p1 from sector 1-30000 | 06:38 |
| Davide | and the linux 83 partition mmcblk0p2 from 30001-end of the card | 06:38 |
| radic__ | Davide: /exec -o df -hTa | grep swap.img | 06:39 |
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| radic__ | hmm | 06:39 |
| Davide | what will that do? | 06:39 |
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| radic__ | withe df you see the used space of the mounted filesystem, but it wasn't for you | 06:40 |
| radic__ | I fergot to remove your nick... | 06:40 |
| Davide | oh ok I'll ignore that then :) | 06:41 |
| Davide | let me explain what I was trying to do. | 06:42 |
| radic__ | cat: /proc/swap: No such file or directory | 06:42 |
| radic__ | FilenameTypeSizeUsedPriority | 06:42 |
| radic__ | /home/radic/test.img file4920-1 | 06:42 |
| radic__ | it's a 512000 byte swap-file | 06:42 |
| Davide | radic__ with sfdisk if I just run it on the whole card it will ask partition by partition to declare the sector size... if I go through them again that will ruin my OS partition correct? | 06:43 |
| Davide | so I was trying sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -N1 which only edits the first partition | 06:43 |
| Davide | and I was gonna make that idk 1,15000 to be storage for example | 06:44 |
| Davide | then with sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -N3 that edits the 3rd partition I was gonna declare that as 15001,30000 to be swap | 06:44 |
| Davide | I'm following the "Partition" page from the wiki on maemo.org for the fat partition it says to format with the command mkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 06:45 |
| Davide | and for the linux partition it says to format with mke2fs /dev/mmcblk0p2 | 06:45 |
| radic__ | create a swap-file instand of a partition | 06:45 |
| Davide | so for swap I would just format with mkswap /dev/mmcblk0p3 | 06:46 |
| Davide | ? | 06:46 |
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| Davide | oh the image file? is that better? | 06:46 |
| Davide | what's the difference? | 06:46 |
| radic__ | Davide: the the compete /dev/mmcblk0p3 is a swap-partition and all data are going to lose | 06:47 |
| Davide | radic__ well as long as I'm taking from the Fat partition sectors I dont care because that partition is empty | 06:47 |
| Davide | so but if I use dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs=512000 count=1 | 06:48 |
| Davide | then it will just create a swap image file that is 512MB in size? | 06:48 |
| radic__ | 512kb | 06:48 |
| Davide | or kb yes :P | 06:48 |
| Davide | lol | 06:48 |
| radic__ | 512*1024*1024 | 06:48 |
| radic__ | 512*1024^2 | 06:49 |
| radic__ | ;) | 06:49 |
| Davide | but help me with the exact command how do I specifically tell it to use that card? instead of /dev/zero I use /dev/mmcblk0 ? | 06:49 |
| Davide | or /dev/mmcblk0p1 more specifically? | 06:50 |
| radic__ | if= is the sourece | 06:50 |
| radic__ | of= the target | 06:50 |
| radic__ | and you fill the swap.img withe zeros | 06:50 |
| Davide | so the source would be that correct /dev/mmcblk0p1 which is my current FAT partition | 06:50 |
| Davide | ? | 06:50 |
| radic__ | if you use if=/dev/hda you fill the of= withe the data of hda | 06:52 |
| radic__ | withe dd you can create a exact image of a partition or a disk | 06:52 |
| * xnt is back | 06:53 | |
| * xnt reads the irc log | 06:53 | |
| *** b-man has joined #maemo | 06:54 | |
| man_in_pda | logs are fun | 06:54 |
| b-man | yup | 06:54 |
| Davide | radic__ and this won't erase any data right? | 06:55 |
| Davide | it will just create a file | 06:55 |
| Davide | ? | 06:55 |
| radic__ | yes | 06:57 |
| xnt | Davide: and btw just be careful with the dd commands you get on the forums you could just write zeros to your hdd/sd, but radic__'s command is correct | 06:57 |
| Davide | xnt I'm trying to understand exactly what I'm doing sorry guys if I"m thick, just new to this. So with this command dd if=/dev/mmcblk0p1 of swap.img bs 512000 count=1 | 06:58 |
| Davide | I will create an image swap file on my current FAT partition which is mmcblk0p1 | 06:58 |
| radic__ | xnt: on a mounted partition too? | 06:58 |
| Davide | is that correct? | 06:58 |
| Davide | of=swap.img* | 06:58 |
| radic__ | Davide: it will work, but why you will write the first 512000 bytes of /dev/mmcblk0p1 to your swap.img | 06:59 |
| radic__ | fill the file withe zeros | 07:00 |
| Davide | so that will automatically fill the file with zeros? | 07:00 |
| Davide | oh if I write dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs 512000 count=1 | 07:01 |
| Davide | that will fill the file with zeros? | 07:01 |
| Davide | but how will it know to create this from the mmcblk0p1 partition? | 07:02 |
| Davide | I must be misunderstanding :( | 07:02 |
| radic__ | I give up... | 07:03 |
| Davide | radic__ I'm sorry but I'm new and it is unclear, knowing what I told you about the name of my partition and that's where I want to create teh swap... can you write the exact command I would personally need to enter for it to do this? | 07:04 |
| Davide | I apologize | 07:04 |
| radic__ | play a littele bit withe dd but DO NOT use any device for of= | 07:04 |
| Davide | :( | 07:06 |
| radic__ | needs someone the module-init-tools-3.8? | 07:06 |
| Davide | thanks anyway | 07:06 |
| Davide | when I enter "dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs=512000 count=1" it says dd: can't ope '/dev/ZERO': No such file or directory | 07:13 |
| Davide | can't open* | 07:13 |
| radic__ | ? | 07:14 |
| Davide | radic__ I'm sorry I'm totally clueless, I know it seems trivial to you but it's unclear to me still what I'm supposed to enter. I have no experience at all with these commands, and I don't understand what context they have to be used in. | 07:16 |
| Davide | xnt how would the swap file be created in that storage partition with that command? | 07:24 |
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| b-man | hay, panguinbait! | 07:25 |
| penguinbait | hey b-man | 07:25 |
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| b-man | what's up? | 07:26 |
| xnt | hey pb hi! | 07:26 |
| b-man | lol | 07:26 |
| penguinbait | causing trouble :) | 07:26 |
| b-man | :) | 07:26 |
| xnt | penguinbait: I remember when I fell asleep while installing kde on my n810, and waking up to the startup sound :P | 07:27 |
| penguinbait | am I the only one who keeps going to internettablettalk.com and hitting refresh? | 07:28 |
| penguinbait | nice: xnt | 07:28 |
| penguinbait | was it worth the wait? | 07:28 |
| xnt | pb: yeah | 07:28 |
| xnt | loved it | 07:28 |
| tank-man | Davide, did you type zero in lower or upper case? | 07:28 |
| xnt | I want to see kde4 but it would be too slow :( | 07:28 |
| penguinbait | I can't wait for the faster processer and hopefull more memory | 07:29 |
| xnt | :) | 07:29 |
| * b-man is working on an update to the original Android port btw :) | 07:29 | |
| xnt | itt works fine here in ny | 07:29 |
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| Davide | tank-man not sure I went back to the other boot partition and am fiddling with sfdisk... the case matters? should it be lowercase or uppercase? | 07:29 |
| vandenoever | goodmoning | 07:29 |
| tank-man | yes case matters | 07:29 |
| xnt | vandenoever: its 12:30:AM here | 07:30 |
| vandenoever | is there a virtualbox image for starting maemo development? (i'm on a 64 bit machine) | 07:30 |
| xnt | oh neverminf | 07:30 |
| tank-man | most likely it should be lowercase | 07:30 |
| b-man | it's 11:58pm here | 07:30 |
| Davide | tank-man can you help me understand what /dev/zero is? that is what causes zeros to be written to the swap.img file? | 07:30 |
| xnt | Davide: linux is case sensitive | 07:30 |
| penguinbait | 12:30am here | 07:30 |
| vandenoever | xnt: hooray for worldwide projects, i hope your next morning may be good | 07:30 |
| Davide | ok | 07:30 |
| tank-man | /dev/zero is a file with zeros in it | 07:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | vandenoever, http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ | 07:30 |
| penguinbait | b-man where the hell are u | 07:31 |
| Davide | I see | 07:31 |
| xnt | chicago | 07:31 |
| xnt | he in chicago | 07:31 |
| xnt | im in ny | 07:31 |
| xnt | pb where are you? | 07:31 |
| xnt | oh nvm bmans in ohio | 07:31 |
| penguinbait | I am in michigan, and its 12:30 | 07:31 |
| Davide | tank-man so when I type that line dd if=/dev/zero of=swap.img bs 512000 count=1 how will the system know where to create the swap.img file? | 07:31 |
| b-man | no | 07:31 |
| b-man | penguinbait: i'm in Bowling Green Ohio | 07:31 |
| penguinbait | itsnot 11:59 in Chicago | 07:31 |
| xnt | :P | 07:31 |
| penguinbait | or ohio | 07:31 |
| * b-man 's clock is off | 07:31 | |
| b-man | ohio | 07:32 |
| penguinbait | 30 minutes | 07:32 |
| vandenoever | GeneralAntilles: thanks, i'll try it on my virtualbox | 07:32 |
| b-man | yeah XP | 07:32 |
| * xnt has internet time :) | 07:32 | |
| penguinbait | where in OH | 07:32 |
| tank-man | Davide, maybe it might make it in the current directory | 07:32 |
| penguinbait | I am near Flint, MI | 07:32 |
| b-man | Bowling Green - south of Toledo | 07:32 |
| xnt | im in New City | 07:32 |
| penguinbait | not too far | 07:32 |
| * b-man use to live in Dermingham michigan | 07:33 | |
| Davide | tank-man so I would have to go into the SD card's other partition space first? otherwise it will create it on my os partition? | 07:33 |
| * xnt went to washinton once | 07:33 | |
| penguinbait | I cant wait to get back to cedar point this summer, I took my kids for the first time laast year, my youngest is finally 4 foot tall :) | 07:33 |
| b-man | i was born in michigan ;) | 07:33 |
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| penguinbait | where abouts | 07:34 |
| xnt | pb: how old are your kids im 14 | 07:34 |
| tank-man | Davide, you can modify that command to specify where you want swap.img to be created | 07:34 |
| xnt | b-man is 16 | 07:34 |
| Davide | tank-man how? | 07:34 |
| penguinbait | My kids are 10 11 14 16 | 07:34 |
| *** glima is now known as glima[AWAY] | 07:34 | |
| xnt | nice | 07:34 |
| b-man | penguinbait: royalaok | 07:34 |
| fireun | busy penguin | 07:34 |
| b-man | awsome :) | 07:34 |
| tank-man | dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/swap.img bs 512000 count=1 | 07:35 |
| b-man | lol | 07:35 |
| Davide | oh | 07:35 |
| penguinbait | , not for the last 10 years, I finally figured out what caused that | 07:35 |
| Davide | tank-man :) ok thanks! | 07:35 |
| Davide | what does the count=1 stand for? | 07:35 |
| Davide | just curious | 07:35 |
| tank-man | Davide, the man page for dd will tell you more. you can look at the man page with the command "man dd" | 07:36 |
| penguinbait | the number of times it will read/write the 512000 | 07:36 |
| * xnt imagines itt school, with stskeeps, pb, johnx as the teachers :P | 07:36 | |
| Davide | ok | 07:36 |
| xnt | mer class | 07:36 |
| b-man | penguinbait: how is it up there, i herd you guys got some sever weather last week | 07:36 |
| xnt | kde class | 07:36 |
| penguinbait | , just lots of water | 07:36 |
| xnt | b-man: it rained all day today | 07:36 |
| b-man | same here | 07:36 |
| penguinbait | lake in the back and side yard, I have a pump running for the last three days | 07:37 |
| b-man | it was 86 F a fuew days ago here xD | 07:37 |
| xnt | yeah it was sooo hot here | 07:37 |
| penguinbait | We needed the water though, the lake levels have been dripping for the last 8-10 years | 07:37 |
| xnt | only the library have ac;s | 07:37 |
| penguinbait | dropping | 07:37 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 07:37 |
| man_in_pda | F Farehnheit! | 07:38 |
| b-man | lol | 07:38 |
| b-man | yes | 07:38 |
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| b-man | penguinbait: what do you have planned for this summer btw? - i'm possibly going to see the last shuttle launch | 07:40 |
| man_in_pda | C is for Celcius, that's good enough for me! | 07:41 |
| penguinbait | hehe, I usually spend a few weeks camping, but all I have planned this summer, is a Grateful Dead Concert on July 4th :) | 07:41 |
| xnt | ok guys im going to sleep, my parents will probably pull the plug on my comp if they wake up, ( im running updates on my cloud) | 07:41 |
| b-man | penguinbait: awsome :) | 07:42 |
| b-man | see ya tomorrow xnt :) | 07:42 |
| xnt | bye | 07:42 |
| xnt | sayanora | 07:42 |
| man_in_pda | so who are the ungrateful dead? | 07:42 |
| *** xnt is now known as xnt_asleep | 07:42 | |
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| penguinbait | I followed the dead for a few years in the 1990's until Jerry died in 95 | 07:43 |
| *** lfelipe is now known as lfelipe[AWAY] | 07:43 | |
| b-man | lol | 07:43 |
| penguinbait | then I got a job and quit sucking down all the nitros | 07:43 |
| penguinbait | wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa | 07:43 |
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| b-man | lolololololololololol | 07:44 |
| penguinbait | My oldest daughter was riding my shoulders at the last dead concert with Jerry Garcia, shes was <1 | 07:45 |
| *** __leif__ has quit IRC | 07:47 | |
| * b-man is trying to re-design the original android port btw :) | 07:47 | |
| b-man | i'm adding components from NITdroid | 07:48 |
| vandenoever | is there anything special bout the scratchbox packages from scratchbox.org or will the ones from $distro do? | 07:48 |
| b-man | pb: was that back in 93? | 07:49 |
| penguinbait | I honestly never looked at android from the first time I helped out., my website got 2800 hits last month on /android.img.bz2 | 07:50 |
| penguinbait | is that even usable anymore? | 07:50 |
| b-man | yes :) | 07:50 |
| penguinbait | oh ") | 07:50 |
| penguinbait | oh :) | 07:51 |
| Davide | radic__, tank-man COOL it worked, if I want to eliminate or change the swap at anytime do I simply delete that file and run the commands again? | 07:51 |
| penguinbait | heh | 07:51 |
| b-man | pb: arn't you running that site from a cable modem? | 07:51 |
| penguinbait | that was actually from tablethacker.com, I pay 90$ a year for hosting | 07:52 |
| penguinbait | penguinbait.com, os my cable modem | 07:52 |
| penguinbait | s/os/is | 07:52 |
| b-man | oh | 07:53 |
| penguinbait | yeah it looks like it got 2152 hits from penguinbait.com also | 07:54 |
| penguinbait | logs.penguinbait.com | 07:54 |
| radic__ | Davide: yes | 07:54 |
| penguinbait | webalizer graphs are the only current graphs | 07:54 |
| * b-man wished there was a bootmenu that was compatible with NITDROID | 07:54 | |
| tank-man | Davide, before deleting you should stop using the swap | 07:55 |
| penguinbait | , I honestly have resigned myself to no real updated until I get new hardware | 07:55 |
| radic__ | tank-man: you think he dosn't do swapoff before deleting? | 07:55 |
| Davide | tank-man, radic__, I didn't know of the existence of swapoff, but thanks. I actually accidentally created a 512kb swap like an dummy LOL and I just deleted it without doing swapoff. THen I just created a new swap file with the same name and 512MB size. and turned it back on etc... seems to work fine. Could I have caused some deeper issues with that? | 07:58 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: you did swapoff before making the 512 MB swap file | 08:00 |
| luke-jr_ | so you're ok | 08:00 |
| Davide | I didn't do swapoff at all luke-jr_ | 08:00 |
| Davide | :( | 08:00 |
| penguinbait | No, Davide, any problems caused by that would go away on a reboot. IT is possible your running system could bug out, but again 1 reboot should fix any possibility of that | 08:00 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: then you couldn't have make a new partition | 08:00 |
| luke-jr_ | or are we talking files? | 08:01 |
| Davide | files | 08:01 |
| luke-jr_ | in which case, the 512 KB file still exists until you swapoff | 08:01 |
| luke-jr_ | even if you removed its filename | 08:01 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: filenames are not files ;) | 08:02 |
| luke-jr_ | files are refcounted | 08:02 |
| luke-jr_ | they only get deleted when nothing is using them | 08:02 |
| luke-jr_ | you can have more than one filename point to the same file, for instance | 08:02 |
| luke-jr_ | echo test > a ; ln a b ; echo hi >> b; cat a | 08:02 |
| luke-jr_ | ☺ | 08:02 |
| Davide | I see when I delete the file from file manager I am deleting that name but the system is still looking at those allocated bytes? | 08:03 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: the file still exists | 08:03 |
| radic__ | if I remove in the /etc/fstab the noexec option for /dev/mmcb1k0p1 then I can execute files on it? | 08:04 |
| luke-jr_ | radic__: depends on filesystem | 08:04 |
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| radic__ | luke-jr_: vfat | 08:04 |
| Davide | so each time I reboot the swap file gets disabled? | 08:04 |
| Davide | it's disabled looks like | 08:05 |
| luke-jr_ | radic__: vfat doesn't have an execute bit, so you might need more options to auto-enable it | 08:05 |
| penguinbait | No radic, I do not think that will make any difference | 08:05 |
| radic__ | the internal card is withe ext2 formated | 08:05 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: btw, you never want to put swap internal | 08:05 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: and avoid swap external too | 08:05 |
| penguinbait | you can create a file on vfat and format it as ext and mount it and then execute files from it | 08:05 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: there is some mount option to make them all +x | 08:06 |
| Davide | luke-jr_ on the external card? oh that's what I had done | 08:06 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: swap is bad for flash | 08:06 |
| penguinbait | luke, never seen that?? | 08:06 |
| Davide | luke-jr_ so where would you create the swap file? | 08:06 |
| penguinbait | not on vfat | 08:06 |
| Davide | so create a swap partition penguinbait? | 08:06 |
| penguinbait | , I guess I never tried to fix it, just worked around it? | 08:06 |
| Davide | so it's better to create a swap partition than a file in vfat? | 08:07 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: vfat SD | 08:07 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: but like I said, avoid swap if you can | 08:07 |
| penguinbait | David, sorry what are you trying to do? | 08:07 |
| penguinbait | what do you mean avoid swap if you can? | 08:08 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: radic__: fmask=0666 I think | 08:08 |
| penguinbait | Yuo want a swap partition | 08:08 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: swap will ruin the SD card faster than normal use | 08:08 |
| Davide | my original question was the fact that I have cloned to the internal sd card and created a 1gb approximately of vfat on the first part of the partition and the rest to the OS | 08:08 |
| penguinbait | or swap file | 08:08 |
| penguinbait | BS | 08:08 |
| luke-jr_ | swap file on vfat will ruin it slower than swap partition | 08:08 |
| Davide | and I was wanting to create a swap in that VFAT | 08:08 |
| Davide | or part of that VFAT | 08:08 |
| penguinbait | OR at least in my three years of doing this I have never ruined an SD/MMC/ card | 08:09 |
| Davide | I followed the wiki guide on maemo.org | 08:09 |
| Davide | so now I have 2 partitions | 08:09 |
| Davide | mmcblk0p1 0,30000,6 | 08:09 |
| Davide | and mmcblk0p2 30001,, | 08:09 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: great, how often do you use swap? | 08:09 |
| penguinbait | luke not really, actually there is an extra memory buffor when it runs on vfat, but either way, you just need swap | 08:09 |
| Davide | the first is VFAT the second is 83 | 08:09 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: vfat does some wear levelling | 08:10 |
| Davide | so how can I split that vfat partition in half and have half be swap and half be storage? | 08:10 |
| penguinbait | Always | 08:10 |
| penguinbait | on my tablet | 08:10 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: also, flash cards are optimized/designed for vfat | 08:10 |
| penguinbait | as soon as its enabled it starts using it, at the first website | 08:10 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: tbh, I'd use a file | 08:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Davide, you don't need more than 128MB of swap. | 08:11 |
| luke-jr_ | you *can't use* more than 128 MB of swap ;p | 08:11 |
| penguinbait | type free in xterm and you will see it used | 08:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr_, that's clearly not true. | 08:11 |
| Davide | why not? can you elaborate? | 08:11 |
| luke-jr_ | GeneralAntilles: from experience, I've seen 128 MB swap the limit before watchdog resets from swappiness | 08:11 |
| penguinbait | If you do not have swap enabledyou can hang and crash more often | 08:11 |
| luke-jr_ | maybe the high performance SD patch helps a bit, not sure | 08:12 |
| Davide | so virtual memory would be more than enough? | 08:12 |
| penguinbait | I have seen as high as 256mb swap before death | 08:12 |
| penguinbait | yes David | 08:12 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: hmm, maybe not actively swapping then? | 08:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1.5x RAM is a good guideline for swap on most things, but our flash is slow enough that 1:1 is recommended. | 08:13 |
| penguinbait | fire up KDE, and tell me if your activly swaping? | 08:13 |
| Davide | I mean if using more swap like 512 that would not mean that you could run for example more applications at once? | 08:13 |
| luke-jr_ | my N810 is building Python right now | 08:13 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: IIRC, no | 08:13 |
| penguinbait | :) | 08:13 |
| luke-jr_ | well, Python compile + KDE would active-swap, no dobut | 08:13 |
| luke-jr_ | but just KDE doesn't | 08:13 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: it's not practical to use that much | 08:13 |
| penguinbait | fire up konquorer | 08:13 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: Konqueror is preloaded ;) | 08:14 |
| penguinbait | and kmail | 08:14 |
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| luke-jr_ | kmail will do it | 08:14 |
| luke-jr_ | :/ | 08:14 |
| penguinbait | and konsole | 08:14 |
| penguinbait | and maemomapper | 08:14 |
| luke-jr_ | I wish I could replace plasma | 08:14 |
| luke-jr_ | I don't think Maemo Mapper is ported | 08:14 |
| Davide | luke-jr_ but are there physical limitations that cause instability or something like that? or do you just mean that I won't likely use more than that much memory? | 08:14 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: Maemo Mapper forces swapping even with Maemo | 08:14 |
| luke-jr_ | by itself | 08:14 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: swapping is slow | 08:15 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: before you hit 512 MB swap use, the system will get so slow the CPU assumes it crashed | 08:15 |
| penguinbait | all maemo apps are available under my kde | 08:15 |
| luke-jr_ | and the watchdog will reboot it | 08:15 |
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| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: I don't even have GTK+ installed ;) | 08:15 |
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| Davide | luke-jr_ I see I guess I just don't know how swapping works... I don't understand what the system does exactly when it swaps | 08:16 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: it copies something in memory to the swap file/partition | 08:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Davide, it uses mass storage devices as RAM, basically. | 08:16 |
| luke-jr_ | then when it needs that memory again, it reads it back | 08:16 |
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| Davide | and the reason it would become so slow like you say arises from what? | 08:16 |
| penguinbait | David, it take memory and puts it on disk, to make room for more important insctructions | 08:16 |
| luke-jr_ | yes, SD read/write is slow | 08:16 |
| luke-jr_ | very slow compared to real RAM | 08:17 |
| luke-jr_ | so for 512 MB swap, you'd need to basically read and write a full 128 MB four times per cycle | 08:17 |
| luke-jr_ | not exactly, but summarizing | 08:17 |
| penguinbait | yes luke-jr, but it has been my experience with some type of swap, systems will crash more often | 08:17 |
| penguinbait | oops | 08:18 |
| penguinbait | without | 08:18 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: that's when you run out ;) | 08:18 |
| Davide | oh so the size of the swap determines how much data has to be written each cycle? | 08:18 |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: no, the amount of swap you use | 08:18 |
| luke-jr_ | and unused swap is usually just a waste | 08:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | penguinbait, it's a fine line to walk between OOM killings and watchdog killings. | 08:18 |
| penguinbait | without swap, you could run out and die just by going to http://internettablettalk.com | 08:19 |
| penguinbait | at least for a few more days | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe on the crappy old theme, but it's much lighter now. | 08:19 |
| penguinbait | GA, have you had any card failures? | 08:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 08:19 |
| Davide | so I would not be able to run Maemo-mapper, canola, xchat, Openoffice 2.4, pidgin, and browse the internet all at the same time :D | 08:20 |
| * luke-jr_ wonders how/if one would notice a failure | 08:20 | |
| luke-jr_ | Davide: you might be able to if you patch Maemo up ;) | 08:20 |
| luke-jr_ | eg, have it send SIGSTOP to background programs | 08:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr_, same way you notice a drive failure. | 08:20 |
| penguinbait | I can honestly say I bet I have read/written more data to their SD cards than most people, with never one failure | 08:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Suddenly it stops working. | 08:20 |
| * b-man starts to compile a decompiler on his tablet | 08:20 | |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: SD card brand matters, also | 08:21 |
| penguinbait | I am all ingston | 08:21 |
| luke-jr_ | higher quality SD cards might do better wear levelling than others | 08:21 |
| penguinbait | I am all Kingston | 08:21 |
| luke-jr_ | mine are all lowest bidder ;) | 08:21 |
| penguinbait | oh and one San Disk | 08:21 |
| luke-jr_ | b-man: ARM decompiler? | 08:21 |
| Davide | luke-jr_ I see, there would be no benefit to having a 512MB swap file | 08:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, higher-quality cards have more durable NAND. | 08:21 |
| luke-jr_ | I have Lexas and A-data | 08:21 |
| b-man | luke-jr: kinda | 08:22 |
| luke-jr_ | Lexar* | 08:22 |
| luke-jr_ | b-man: link? :D | 08:22 |
| penguinbait | you get what you pay form there is a reason they come with a lifetime warranty :) | 08:22 |
| b-man | luke-jr: i'm building it right now XD | 08:22 |
| penguinbait | david, 256 is plenty | 08:22 |
| luke-jr_ | penguinbait: I wish "lifetime" was defined as the owner's life ;) | 08:22 |
| luke-jr_ | b-man: it has no website? | 08:23 |
| b-man | http://boomerang.sourceforge.net/download.php | 08:23 |
| * luke-jr_ ponders whether he is better off decompiling gpsdriver or just analyzing the protocol | 08:23 | |
| b-man | lol | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr_, sure, you can have that if you want to pay $500 for an 8GH SD card. | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/GH/GB/ | 08:24 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: luke-jr_, sure, you can have that if you want to pay $500 for an 8GB SD card. | 08:24 |
| penguinbait | has anyone in here had failures, and if so what brand? | 08:24 |
| luke-jr_ | I suspect a forum thread would be better suited to that question | 08:25 |
| luke-jr_ | or a poll | 08:25 |
| penguinbait | I have started enough polls lately | 08:25 |
| luke-jr_ | I've only had miniSD cards for 3 months, so I can't comment :p | 08:25 |
| penguinbait | chirp chirp | 08:25 |
| penguinbait | GA, any failures? | 08:26 |
| luke-jr_ | http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/14/266 <-- most of what I know | 08:26 |
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| luke-jr_ | based on reverse engineering of flash usb sticks | 08:27 |
| penguinbait | Even during the infamous data corruption bug, the hardware always remained reusable | 08:27 |
| penguinbait | at least mine did | 08:27 |
| penguinbait | remember that bugger | 08:28 |
| radic__ | how can I copy / without fallowing any links and exclude other partitions? | 08:28 |
| penguinbait | that had me as fired up as these latest turn of events | 08:28 |
| luke-jr_ | radic__: mkdir /tmp/rootfs; mount -o bind / /tmp/rootfs; rsync -a /tmp/rootfs/ /target/ | 08:29 |
| luke-jr_ | might want to use something other than /tmp/rootfs so you don't accidentally delete rootfs ;) | 08:30 |
| radic__ | luke-jr_: and from /target/ I can create a jffs2 image and flashe it as rootfs image? | 08:31 |
| luke-jr_ | radic__: uhh, not 100% sure on that one | 08:31 |
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| radic__ | hmm, my new kernel isn't booting | 08:42 |
| radic__ | is there a way to show the bootmessages instand of the default startup-screen? | 08:42 |
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| vandenoever | i'm trying out fremantle and get only a black xephyr screen after running af-sb-init.sh start | 08:55 |
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| vandenoever | also errors about dbus not working | 08:55 |
| keesj | x86 or arm target? | 09:02 |
| keesj | did you set the DISPLAY variable ? | 09:02 |
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| vandenoever | keesj: arm and yes | 09:05 |
| vandenoever | that is, i'm running in scratchbox on x64 | 09:06 |
| keesj | I haven't tried the arm one , i know the x86 work on x64 | 09:07 |
| keesj | (I don't know if it works on the arm target) | 09:08 |
| vandenoever | keesj: this might be a problem: (Connection ":1.53" is not allowed to own the service "org.x.config.display3" due to security policies in the configuration file) | 09:11 |
| keesj | you use -ac right? | 09:12 |
| vandenoever | -ac ? | 09:13 |
| vandenoever | ah, yes | 09:13 |
| vandenoever | in xephyr | 09:13 |
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| boomre | any idea where i can find something like that http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6154/55528692.png but in french version | 09:15 |
| keesj | vandenoever: I give up :p | 09:17 |
| * Stskeeps yawns | 09:17 | |
| RST38h | You won't | 09:17 |
| RST38h | These words appear to be attribute names. They will be the same in either English or French version. | 09:18 |
| boomre | but i need to translate for understanf good what is what | 09:18 |
| boomre | lol | 09:19 |
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| vandenoever | keesj: i'm looking at security setting now ... | 09:23 |
| radic__ | good morning qwerty12 | 09:23 |
| qwerty12 | hi radic__ | 09:24 |
| radic__ | qwerty12: is there a way to show the bootmessages instand of the default boot-screen? | 09:25 |
| qwerty12 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages | 09:25 |
| qwerty12 | infobot: boot-messages is http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages | 09:25 |
| infobot | okay, qwerty12 | 09:25 |
| radic__ | thx | 09:26 |
| radic__ | boot-messages | 09:26 |
| radic__ | hmm | 09:27 |
| radic__ | how can I see any kind of help of the infobot? | 09:27 |
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| radic__ | qwerty12: where can I get fanoush's initfs? | 09:47 |
| qwerty12 | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs | 09:48 |
| qwerty12 | But if Mer ever tickles your fancy, get Stskeeps' one | 09:48 |
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| radic__ | qwerty12: URL? | 09:57 |
| qwerty12 | I can't remember it | 09:57 |
| johnx | it's available as part of the mer bootmenu installer | 09:59 |
| radic__ | Stskeeps: you are awake? | 09:59 |
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| johnx | anyone see the kickstand info on the N86? looks like a harbinger of tablets to come :) | 10:02 |
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| GAN800 | Looks worse than the 770 stand | 10:03 |
| johnx | yes, but now we know what kind of thing the "kickstand open" flag will be used for | 10:03 |
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| GAN800 | Ah | 10:04 |
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| luke-jr_ | johnx: IMO, the kickstand is mostly useless | 10:07 |
| Stskeeps | eh. | 10:07 |
| Stskeeps | kickstand is wonderful. | 10:07 |
| luke-jr_ | not practical to type with it | 10:07 |
| johnx | you're doing it wrong | 10:07 |
| luke-jr_ | it just slides backward | 10:07 |
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| johnx | it's not for when you're typing... | 10:08 |
| GAN800 | ^ | 10:08 |
| luke-jr_ | when it's sitting there just looking pretty? :p | 10:08 |
| johnx | reading web pages, listening to music, reading a book, watching a movie, just setting it on your desk and letting it check mail | 10:09 |
| luke-jr_ | maybe I was just too spoiled by the Zaurus | 10:10 |
| qwerty12 | Yes, I can see how the kickstand would hurt someone dearly | 10:10 |
| GAN800 | The kickstand is possibly the greatest thing ever invented | 10:11 |
| qwerty12 | Indeed, I can't imagine using mplayer w/out it | 10:11 |
| johnx | luke-jr_, problem with the zaurus is when you tap on the screen the screen folds back. problem with the kickstand is that typing pushes the whole thing back | 10:12 |
| johnx | no single solution... | 10:12 |
| GAN800 | johnx, sure there is, rubber! | 10:12 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: add a stop-lock point to the screen | 10:12 |
| radic__ | why is the kernel not booting whene it's configured withe "make n800_defconfig"? | 10:12 |
| qwerty12 | nokia_2420_defconfig | 10:13 |
| luke-jr_ | johnx: actually, I take that back, in practice my Zaurus seems to slide too :/ | 10:13 |
| radic__ | why nokia_2420 and not n800? | 10:13 |
| luke-jr_ | so I guess the usability difference was just on the go typing | 10:13 |
| qwerty12 | Because it works? :) | 10:13 |
| radic__ | qwerty12: what's the differences? | 10:13 |
| qwerty12 | Dunno, do a diff yourself and find out. | 10:14 |
| luke-jr_ | I can't wait for 2.6.30 :p | 10:15 |
| luke-jr_ | it has support for the wifi mainlined | 10:15 |
| luke-jr_ | p54spi driver | 10:17 |
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| GAN800 | Someone want to explain to the idea why there are 3 different names for what is apparently 2 drivers? | 10:19 |
| GAN800 | s/idea/idiot | 10:19 |
| luke-jr_ | GAN800: ? | 10:19 |
| luke-jr_ | if you mean wifi, 3 different codebases | 10:20 |
| luke-jr_ | cx.. used blobs | 10:20 |
| luke-jr_ | stlc was open source, specific to N8x0 | 10:20 |
| luke-jr_ | p54spi is a variant of a single prism54 codebase | 10:21 |
| luke-jr_ | so the final driver is not tied so much to N8x0 | 10:21 |
| luke-jr_ | and is shared by USB and PCI drivers for the same chip | 10:21 |
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| lcuk810 | \me wakes up | 10:49 |
| * lcuk810 wakes up even | 10:50 | |
| johnx | hey lcuk810 :) | 10:50 |
| lcuk810 | mornin | 10:51 |
| johnx | huh. guess it is :) | 10:51 |
| lcuk810 | too early | 10:51 |
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| lcuk810 | was woke up to the sound of drumsticks on glass table | 10:52 |
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| johnx | someone working on a new solo piece? | 10:53 |
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| lcuk810 | johnx yeah youngest | 10:54 |
| johnx | thought so :) | 10:55 |
| lcuk810 | but its not new him playng, its just new table | 10:55 |
| lcuk810 | hard to fingertype on 810 | 10:55 |
| lcuk810 | cant wait to get this e.t. finger off | 10:55 |
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| johnx | so I still don't know the whole story...you actually broke your finger like that by jabbing it at a touchscreen? | 10:57 |
| lcuk810 | lol | 10:57 |
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| * johnx obviously missed something :) | 10:58 | |
| lcuk810 | no i reached up to the handle of a big glass door | 10:58 |
| lcuk810 | it was locked | 10:58 |
| lcuk810 | so i pressed what i thought was a unlock button (like all the other doors were locked but manual | 10:59 |
| lcuk810 | and reached back for the handle | 10:59 |
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| lcuk810 | wtf | 11:07 |
| * johnx shrugs | 11:07 | |
| AStorm | hello | 11:08 |
| lcuk810 | johnx lol i didnt notice maemo had closed lol | 11:08 |
| AStorm | which FS is recommended for immc? | 11:08 |
| lcuk810 | i just carried on typing | 11:08 |
| Stskeeps | ext2/ext3 doesn't matter :P | 11:08 |
| thux | morning after mayday | 11:08 |
| lcuk810 | i had ext2 | 11:08 |
| johnx | AStorm, depends on what you want to do. | 11:08 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, I'd prefer btrfs w/ compression, but unfortunately it's not available | 11:09 |
| AStorm | and I'd need later kernel for it | 11:09 |
| johnx | sharing with windows/camera -> vfat. using with linux -> ext2/3 | 11:09 |
| AStorm | johnx, immc. a chip | 11:09 |
| lcuk810 | sts would u paste the bits fom #liqbase where i finished my storylol | 11:09 |
| AStorm | that's not meant to be shared excluding hotair desoldering | 11:09 |
| johnx | s/camera// | 11:09 |
| infobot | johnx meant: sharing with windows/ -> vfat. using with linux -> ext2/3 | 11:09 |
| AStorm | :) | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | [09:59] <lcuk810> ed outwards automatically | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | [09:59] <lcuk810> sliicing the end of my finger bettween the handle and the central metal pillar | 11:10 |
| johnx | eep | 11:10 |
| lcuk810 | ta | 11:10 |
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| lcuk810 | yeah johnx hurt muchly | 11:10 |
| AStorm | hmmh, so no better fs more tuned to flash available? | 11:10 |
| johnx | I believe it | 11:10 |
| AStorm | (esp. to slow flash like that one) | 11:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk810, they covering your medical expenses? | 11:11 |
| johnx | AStorm, not that's tuned to dealing with flash that has a hardware block device translator on top | 11:11 |
| AStorm | johnx, yeah, well | 11:11 |
| aquatix | lcuk810: ick, good luck with your finger | 11:11 |
| AStorm | pity I can't use btrfs in SSD mode | 11:11 |
| AStorm | (and compression, which really helps) | 11:11 |
| johnx | you can actually use btrfs on a block device? | 11:11 |
| AStorm | maybe once I up the kernel in mer | 11:11 |
| AStorm | johnx, uhm... it's a normal filesystem? | 11:12 |
| lcuk810 | yes gen, every single person went above and beyond their jobs to help me as much as possible | 11:12 |
| johnx | ah, didn't know much about it :) | 11:12 |
| AStorm | http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page | 11:12 |
| johnx | heh. light bedtime reading? :) | 11:12 |
| lcuk810 | and there have been changes made since to prevent it in future | 11:12 |
| AStorm | hopefully it wasn't too painful | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: now that i'm actually not busy with watching a movie with my gf, DSP protocol in ESD: http://pastebin.com/d36af180d | 11:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk810, ah, too bad. | 11:13 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, throw that at pulseaudio devs | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | k | 11:13 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, hoping to recommend your cousin who just happens to be a lawyer? :P | 11:13 |
| AStorm | they might be able to implement it in split second | 11:13 |
| AStorm | I'm not right now :-( | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 11:13 |
| lcuk810 | gan, we joke that the speed of corporate change is slow, but in this instance the responce has been tremendous | 11:13 |
| AStorm | even the Mer install is more caused by necessity | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | ah, any specific need? | 11:14 |
| AStorm | # | 11:14 |
| AStorm | + // Read the junk | 11:14 |
| AStorm | # | 11:14 |
| AStorm | + dsp_read_junk() | 11:14 |
| * AStorm loves meaningful comments | 11:14 | |
| lcuk810 | what does that function do? | 11:14 |
| AStorm | hell if I know | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Reads the junk, duh. | 11:15 |
| AStorm | I guess that DSP still has some stuff in it, or maybe it's some flag update | 11:15 |
| AStorm | or whatever | 11:15 |
| johnx | s/stuff/junk/ | 11:15 |
| AStorm | yeah | 11:15 |
| AStorm | but it's not self-explanatory | 11:16 |
| lcuk810 | gan, example of above and beyond, the receptionist at the hotel apologised! i think on behalf of the entire country :$ | 11:16 |
| * Stskeeps tries to locate the dsp protocol stuff | 11:16 | |
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| lcuk810 | but my hand will get better and i will recver and ill always have a reminder of my first trip to finland :) | 11:18 |
| AStorm | heh, bad reminder | 11:18 |
| Meiz_n810 | Wth? If i set xkbmap layout to "de" ä and ö starts working O_o | 11:18 |
| * Meiz_n810 worders why they aren't working with fisenoda layout | 11:19 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:19 |
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| lcuk810 | astorm i said i would give my right hand to go to nokia, when i said it i didnt think it would be taken literally | 11:19 |
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| johnx | lcuk810, that was just a downpayment ... | 11:20 |
| *** s7_ is now known as s7 | 11:21 | |
| lcuk810 | :o | 11:21 |
| * lcuk810 cowers | 11:21 | |
| lcuk810 | thats scary | 11:21 |
| johnx | yeah, dunno what they've got planned for me. I mean I only have the 3 hands on me and a couple of spares in the closet... | 11:21 |
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| lcuk810 | forget thee dpad, that about a nokia 1 handed keyboard lol | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: cced my answers to you | 11:23 |
| lcuk810 | gan i still havent charged this 810 up | 11:23 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, thanks. I'll answer those and send them out tomorrow. | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 11:23 |
| * johnx can't be trusted to represent *anyone* this late at night :) | 11:23 | |
| johnx | 'night all | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | practice for jetlag for copenhagen ;) | 11:24 |
| lcuk810 | gnite johnx | 11:24 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk810, liking the router, then? :P | 11:24 |
| lcuk810 | no it keeps dropping the desktop | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | oh | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | that's a neat photo | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 11:24 |
| lcuk810 | the adhoc was rocksteady | 11:25 |
| GAN800 | lcuk810, how far away is it? | 11:25 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: hang on for a sec if you're not gone yet | 11:25 |
| johnx | still here | 11:25 |
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| lcuk810 | less than 10foot | 11:25 |
| GAN800 | lcuk810, isn't the desktop wired anyway? | 11:25 |
| lcuk810 | desktop wired to internet | 11:25 |
| lcuk810 | wifi to internal lan | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/DSCF0743.JPG (and to the rest of you) | 11:26 |
| * johnx claps | 11:27 | |
| johnx | woo! | 11:27 |
| johnx | on some devices character choice for user name is slightly restricted ... | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:27 |
| GAN800 | lol | 11:27 |
| thux | Stskeeps: is it your device? | 11:28 |
| lcuk810 | so change your name!! | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | thux: no, goshawk's | 11:28 |
| GAN800 | Stylin' vkb. What's that, Chinese? :P | 11:28 |
| thux | ok | 11:28 |
| * thux wonders when manufacturers start to send devices to mer devs | 11:28 | |
| lcuk810 | i like the left hand butttons | 11:28 |
| lcuk810 | abc | 11:28 |
| lcuk810 | sht | 11:29 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, how's the cellular work? Just drop-in? | 11:29 |
| lcuk810 | shit even | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: probably - we havent' gotten that far in | 11:29 |
| johnx | GAN800, sorry? did you just say you were making a layout that works in portrait mode? :D | 11:29 |
| GAN800 | johnx, pfff | 11:29 |
| johnx | GAN800, I'll cover you in terms of council duties for a while. :> trust me ... | 11:30 |
| GAN800 | johnx, ahaha, you have no idea what you're volunteering for there. :P | 11:30 |
| GAN800 | The vkb programing would probably be more fun these days. | 11:30 |
| GAN800 | Is the Neo stylus driven? | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 11:31 |
| lcuk810 | "covering someone in council duties" sounds more like bukkake | 11:31 |
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| Stskeeps | (or touch) | 11:31 |
| GAN800 | I still think a Grafiti clone would be really awesome for portrait stylus devices. | 11:31 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:32 |
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| lcuk810 | astorm is working on hwr | 11:32 |
| *** s7 has quit IRC | 11:32 | |
| * lcuk810 has bits too | 11:32 | |
| scibotic | Is there a way to set the tablet to use a user account other than "user" by default? | 11:32 |
| lcuk810 | mornin tangarine | 11:32 |
| lcuk810 | not by default, no | 11:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, how hard would it be to just drop the numpad and add a line of numbers up top? | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | scibotic: maemo is surprisingly hardcoded to user | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: probably not hard, but i'm an idiot at GTK :P | 11:33 |
| scibotic | Bugger. Well the internal SDHC card I'm using already has a filesystem setup for a particular user and I'd rather not butcher the permissions. | 11:34 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles, hmmh? | 11:34 |
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| lcuk810 | mornin lbt | 11:34 |
| AStorm | as to the graffiti, it's weak | 11:35 |
| AStorm | I can do better hwr than that already... | 11:35 |
| AStorm | soon, I'll make the first preview release | 11:35 |
| * lcuk810 scrrolls | 11:35 | |
| AStorm | (w/o X bindings though) | 11:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Grafiti is faster than hwr for smaller screens. | 11:35 |
| AStorm | faster? as in, what it is other than hwr? :P | 11:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Proper HWR | 11:36 |
| AStorm | it's special kind of symbols | 11:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not shorthand | 11:36 |
| lcuk810 | explain difference between hwr and graffiti plz | 11:36 |
| AStorm | ah, well | 11:36 |
| AStorm | it's *proper* hwr then | 11:36 |
| AStorm | :) | 11:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk810, no, I'm in technical-laziness at the moment. | 11:36 |
| AStorm | the hardest part is UI stuff | 11:36 |
| AStorm | there is no good binding, including hildon | 11:36 |
| lcuk810 | was talkin to astorm | 11:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't really think handwriting on a small screen works very well. | 11:37 |
| AStorm | for good stuff, I'd need the position of the textbox | 11:37 |
| AStorm | it does. | 11:37 |
| AStorm | (assuming the detection quality is good) | 11:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Newton is about as small as I'll actively handwrite on. | 11:37 |
| AStorm | n810 is larger, heh | 11:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Than a Newton? | 11:38 |
| AStorm | screen-wise, yes | 11:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Erm | 11:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | How many Newtons have you used, exactly? | 11:38 |
| AStorm | exactly one, once, for a short time | 11:38 |
| AStorm | :) | 11:38 |
| AStorm | and its UI for hwr is excellent | 11:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, um, the WHOLE FREAKING N800 is smaller than the Newton's screen. | 11:39 |
| AStorm | yes, but higher res | 11:39 |
| AStorm | so you can actually write better | 11:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not talking about resolution. | 11:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm talking about absolute screen dimensions. | 11:39 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 11:39 |
| AStorm | well, Nokia's fine for handwriting with me | 11:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the N800's screen is too small for me to comfortably handwrite on. | 11:39 |
| AStorm | you can easily fit a line of text | 11:40 |
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| AStorm | (horizontal mode - vertical is... different) | 11:40 |
| AStorm | other than that, I could use better hooks in hildon, yes | 11:41 |
| lcuk810 | 85" $95 5/!5 &!@ | 11:41 |
| lcuk810 | its not that bad even | 11:41 |
| AStorm | not just "show the IM" which returns text | 11:41 |
| AStorm | hildon context is a bit poor in info | 11:43 |
| lcuk810 | what do you mean | 11:43 |
| lcuk810 | why would your im care where it is placed as long as its visible | 11:44 |
| lcuk810 | as an input method you should be subserviant | 11:44 |
| AStorm | yes | 11:45 |
| AStorm | but I'd like to know where to display the input surface | 11:46 |
| lbt | 'lo lcuk810 | 11:46 |
| AStorm | because another window is inconvenient and resizes windows in matchbox | 11:46 |
| lcuk810 | \o | 11:46 |
| AStorm | so, I'd put an overlay | 11:46 |
| lcuk810 | not your prob astorm, job of hildon isnt it | 11:47 |
| AStorm | to do that, I need x,y of the textbox | 11:47 |
| AStorm | sure it is, it's an input method | 11:47 |
| lcuk810 | that should be feasible tho, dont you get a reference to the current activecontrol | 11:48 |
| lcuk810 | i know im used to having context avail in vb lol | 11:49 |
| AStorm | XID of the "textbox window" you say | 11:49 |
| lcuk810 | yeah or gtkbox | 11:49 |
| AStorm | yes, I could use low-level X functions to grab that | 11:49 |
| AStorm | except I still have to cheat and send events at the box to simulate key input | 11:49 |
| AStorm | instead of having proper functions for this | 11:49 |
| AStorm | if I want real-time input | 11:50 |
| lcuk810 | mmh an input method shouldnt try to get hands on the app itself rly? it should supply an input stream only | 11:51 |
| AStorm | yeah, but not in a way of sending text around | 11:52 |
| lcuk810 | think speech recognition, no ui, just moving cursor and pushing text in | 11:52 |
| AStorm | this means it can't do real-time input | 11:52 |
| AStorm | yes, but current input is pure block of text | 11:52 |
| lcuk810 | course it can just like a bt keyboard can | 11:53 |
| lcuk810 | thats just another im | 11:53 |
| AStorm | nah, it's not | 11:53 |
| AStorm | it's actual X keyboard driver | 11:53 |
| AStorm | which sends actual X events | 11:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | yerga, you got an Ars shout-out. | 11:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/maemo-5-sdk-beta-released-apis-frozen.ars | 11:54 |
| *** ScriptRipper has quit IRC | 11:55 | |
| AStorm | I'm bitching because I'll have to do the same | 11:55 |
| AStorm | that is, simulate a keyboard ;p | 11:55 |
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| lcuk810 | lol "input method" | 11:55 |
| AStorm | at least I can detect the textbox losing focus | 11:56 |
| AStorm | (thanks to the context) | 11:56 |
| lcuk810 | wont it technically lose focus as son as your im is shown | 11:58 |
| AStorm | ok, end of moaning, time to install Mer | 11:58 |
| lcuk810 | lol | 11:58 |
| AStorm | it will - but that doesn't matter | 11:58 |
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| AStorm | because it's the context that does hiding and showing | 11:59 |
| AStorm | and I can send X events at the correct XID | 11:59 |
| lcuk810 | yeah | 11:59 |
| AStorm | alternatively, I can mark the window as non-focus | 12:00 |
| lcuk810 | so hard typin with 1 hnd | 12:00 |
| AStorm | with the added "benefit" that matchbox will treat it as an overlay window | 12:00 |
| AStorm | but I don't know whether I can force the position of the overlay | 12:01 |
| lbt | Jaffa: ping... bleb.. osc... ? | 12:05 |
| * lbt hopes you're not in a tent... | 12:06 | |
| lcuk810 | bbl | 12:08 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: nope, not yet. wassup? | 12:12 |
| lbt | seems to have been an upgrade so my local osc is broke :( | 12:13 |
| lbt | so I removed it | 12:13 |
| lbt | and found /usr/local/bin/osc is also broke :) | 12:13 |
| Jaffa | lbt: ah - right | 12:13 |
| Jaffa | lbt: removed - I switched to the more appropriate repo, so the hack is unnecessary | 12:13 |
| AStorm | hopefully merinstaller can install on immc | 12:14 |
| lbt | cool - ta. | 12:14 |
| AStorm | I suspect it can, amirite? | 12:14 |
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| lbt | does anyone have rights whilst you are out of touch? | 12:14 |
| lbt | just in case something bad happens? | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: correct | 12:15 |
| Jaffa | lbt: nope. I should only be a few days between getting access to the intarwebz; worst case: do something osc-ey in your home dir | 12:15 |
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| AStorm | 1,1 GB is more than enough, yes? | 12:15 |
| lbt | OK | 12:16 |
| Jaffa | lbt: or send me a text message (my mobile number is on my finger record, so 'finger andrew' on the box will show it) | 12:16 |
| lbt | OK - I'll make a note | 12:17 |
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| mavhc | is there anything better than canola for downloading, listening and deleting podcasts? | 12:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Better" is awfully subjective, but GPodder may work. | 12:25 |
| mavhc | canola's database is corrupt, it can't pause properly, it takes loads of ram, and doesn't work with some feeds | 12:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | mavhc, kill it with canola-cleanup then reinstall. | 12:27 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, damn your installer | 12:27 |
| AStorm | there's no option to make bootmenu.item and not format the partition | 12:27 |
| AStorm | can't it just read /proc? | 12:28 |
| AStorm | (yes, I do have ext2 on that) | 12:28 |
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| Stskeeps | AStorm: well the bootmenu item is fairly easy to make | 12:28 |
| AStorm | why does it need a FAT partition anyway? | 12:29 |
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| Stskeeps | to keep Maemo from complaining | 12:29 |
| AStorm | ah, that | 12:29 |
| AStorm | nah, I can fix the dumb script | 12:29 |
| AStorm | just a minor change from -t vfat to -t auto | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 12:30 |
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| RST38h | So, is krisse he or she? | 12:30 |
| qwerty12 | he | 12:31 |
| RST38h | moo Astorm, btw, found a job? | 12:31 |
| GAN800 | she | 12:31 |
| RST38h | oh | 12:31 |
| AStorm | RST38h, you're hiring? :) | 12:31 |
| * RST38h senses trouble | 12:31 | |
| AStorm | because, nah, not yet | 12:31 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Well, I may have stuff coming | 12:31 |
| AStorm | mmhm, would be nice | 12:31 |
| GAN800 | qwerty12, gotta hate the internet, eh? | 12:32 |
| RST38h | AStorm: it is all contract stuff though and it is peculiar | 12:32 |
| AStorm | now, 20 minute download | 12:32 |
| AStorm | heh, still could be fun if it's white (not gray like I did before) | 12:32 |
| qwerty12 | GAN800: lol, I just thought I saw a post saying krisse was a he but maybe my mind is playing tricks on me... :P | 12:32 |
| GAN800 | qwery12, qgil say she, so I'm just going with that. | 12:32 |
| qwerty12 | :) | 12:33 |
| AStorm | maybe it's a ve | 12:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | An it | 12:33 |
| AStorm | heh, I should get my email up to speed with all the mailing list sorting | 12:34 |
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| Stskeeps | afternoon aladds | 12:34 |
| aladds | hi | 12:34 |
| AStorm | and hotlisting good threads | 12:34 |
| aladds | saw you released 0.12 :-) | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | yup | 12:34 |
| AStorm | btw, is 0.13 soon to come? | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | a little over 2 weeks to go | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | we haven't done much yet, we're moving -everything- to opensuse build service | 12:35 |
| aladds | that's quick | 12:35 |
| AStorm | mhm | 12:35 |
| aladds | ah | 12:35 |
| AStorm | if I get annoyed enough, you might get a nice DSP driver for pulse from me | 12:35 |
| AStorm | (that's assuming I fix the earphones) | 12:36 |
| * RST38h senses real trouble now after speaking with krisse on and off for 1+ year and all the time assuming krisses was he | 12:36 | |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: a2dp might work too, heh | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: welcome to the internet | 12:36 |
| AStorm | a2db is junk, too slow | 12:36 |
| AStorm | *a2dp | 12:36 |
| RST38h | Sts: yep | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | aladds: take a look at https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?project=Maemo%3AMer%3ADevel (make a novell account) | 12:36 |
| AStorm | too slow = not enough bandwidth for real sound | 12:37 |
| RST38h | depends on your definition of real sound | 12:37 |
| AStorm | need 10 Mbit | 12:37 |
| AStorm | 44100 kHz, 16bit, stereo | 12:37 |
| AStorm | uncompressed or lossless | 12:38 |
| RST38h | 64kbd should be enough | 12:38 |
| AStorm | 1 Mbit. | 12:38 |
| aladds | Stskeeps: looks fun | 12:38 |
| AStorm | actually, 1,5 Mbit | 12:38 |
| RST38h | Sound compresses REALLY well, so you do not need 1Mbaud | 12:38 |
| AStorm | so BT with EDR *might* do it | 12:38 |
| AStorm | not that well | 12:38 |
| RST38h | 64kbaud is enough | 12:38 |
| AStorm | Flac has 50% ratio | 12:38 |
| AStorm | anything more than this means expensive hardware to decode | 12:39 |
| Stskeeps | aladds: we build simultaneously for debian armel/x86, ubuntu armel/x86, without any scratchbox etc | 12:39 |
| aladds | nice | 12:39 |
| RST38h | AStorm: just sending deltas instead of absolute values will compress sound by 50% | 12:39 |
| RST38h | or more | 12:39 |
| Stskeeps | no arm hardware involved, too, or arm systems emulated :P | 12:39 |
| RST38h | depending on what you are compressing of course | 12:39 |
| AStorm | no, that will give you 20-25% | 12:39 |
| AStorm | I know, because flac does this too :) | 12:39 |
| RST38h | on white noise (44kHz) it will give you 0 | 12:39 |
| AStorm | yep | 12:39 |
| AStorm | but white noise is nice, because it's uniform | 12:40 |
| RST38h | on a guitar quartet it will give you 90% | 12:40 |
| AStorm | so in longer term it compresses well | 12:40 |
| AStorm | nah, 90% from a real sound is impossible | 12:40 |
| AStorm | as in, real-life recording | 12:40 |
| RST38h | if you simply delete it and regenerate it on the other end, yes | 12:40 |
| AStorm | unless it's lossy | 12:40 |
| RST38h | but I guess it won't work well because most noise isn't really white :)) | 12:40 |
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| AStorm | yep | 12:40 |
| AStorm | still, flac can do noise well, has some additional tricks apart from Rice encoding | 12:41 |
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| * RST38h is surprised flac only compresses audio by 50% | 12:41 | |
| AStorm | but 1,5 Mbit should pass through BT w/ EDR | 12:41 |
| RST38h | way to low imho | 12:41 |
| AStorm | it's fast | 12:41 |
| AStorm | it's average 50% | 12:41 |
| AStorm | or so | 12:42 |
| RST38h | ah | 12:42 |
| AStorm | on fast setting | 12:42 |
| RST38h | so it is worse on rock, better on strings... | 12:42 |
| AStorm | and it's mostly a static codec | 12:42 |
| AStorm | nah, actually, it's not bad on any real input | 12:42 |
| AStorm | the main advantage it's that its static and lossless | 12:43 |
| AStorm | so needs little CPU power | 12:43 |
| AStorm | also, it's open - I wonder why it hasn't been adopted for that BT standard | 12:43 |
| RST38h | "static" == "losless"? | 12:43 |
| AStorm | there's even an open royalty-free hardware implementation | 12:43 |
| AStorm | no | 12:43 |
| RST38h | then what? | 12:43 |
| AStorm | static means it doesn't use dynamic codebooks and random advanced tricks | 12:43 |
| RST38h | (well BT has had limited bandwidth historically so they probably consider flac wasteful) | 12:44 |
| RST38h | ah ok | 12:44 |
| AStorm | so it's very simple to decode | 12:44 |
| AStorm | well, 1,5 Mbit is wasteful | 12:44 |
| AStorm | 700 kbps is not | 12:44 |
| AStorm | :) | 12:44 |
| RST38h | so in a sense "static" ~= "stateless" | 12:44 |
| AStorm | and with BT+EDR it can be easily done | 12:44 |
| RST38h | if it does not construct codebook dynamically | 12:44 |
| AStorm | almost, it has some small amount of state, but yes, that's it | 12:44 |
| AStorm | it does construct the codebook dynamically | 12:44 |
| AStorm | on encoding | 12:44 |
| RST38h | ah | 12:44 |
| AStorm | the trick is that there's one codebook, and it's not changed every some random amount of time | 12:45 |
| AStorm | and many other tricks that advanced lossless encoders use | 12:45 |
| AStorm | the lookahead is also limited | 12:45 |
| AStorm | so buffering one block is enough | 12:45 |
| AStorm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC anyway | 12:46 |
| RST38h | =) | 12:49 |
| lcuk | heh http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=16460 | 12:50 |
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| AStorm | haha, it's easy to "hypnotize" someone to want what he already wants | 12:51 |
| AStorm | ;P | 12:51 |
| derf | AStorm: FLAC doesn't _guarantee_ a compression ratio (no lossless codec can), which tends to make hardware designers nervous. | 12:51 |
| * RST38h to his surprise found that the R500 works in sunlight WITHOUT the backlight | 12:52 | |
| AStorm | derf, nothing guarantees | 12:52 |
| RST38h | derf: well that goes without saying | 12:52 |
| RST38h | you can't beat the information theory | 12:52 |
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| derf | AStorm: Sure it does. You can guarantee size, if you don't guarantee quality. | 12:53 |
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| AStorm | only lossy compression guarantees | 12:53 |
| lcuk | ylu can however say that you compression algo at worst case scenario results in 1:1 | 12:53 |
| AStorm | yes | 12:53 |
| derf | That's what I just said. | 12:53 |
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| AStorm | so, you could still use flac | 12:53 |
| derf | "(no lossless codec can)" | 12:53 |
| derf | lcuk: Plus one bit. | 12:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: 1:1 + some metadata :) | 12:53 |
| AStorm | it *almost always* compresses better than 30% | 12:53 |
| AStorm | in mathematical senfse | 12:54 |
| AStorm | *sense | 12:54 |
| RST38h | "almost" has no meaning in mathematical sense. | 12:54 |
| AStorm | it has. | 12:54 |
| lcuk | i think we should just outlaw "1" bits | 12:54 |
| derf | RST38h: Yes it does. | 12:54 |
| derf | "Almost always" means everywhere except a set of measure zero. | 12:54 |
| RST38h | Well you can define it, like they do in approximation algorithms theory | 12:54 |
| RST38h | derf: mmm,ok | 12:55 |
| derf | It is a strict mathematical term. | 12:55 |
| RST38h | derf: does it apply to physical entities though? | 12:55 |
| AStorm | yes, it means everywhere except if the signal has maximum entropy | 12:55 |
| derf | If you can put them in a measure space, yes. | 12:55 |
| derf | And most physical entities map to measure spaces very well. | 12:55 |
| AStorm | but you could extend flac to do lossy... like WavPack | 12:56 |
| AStorm | still, that's FLAC 2, not FLAC ;P | 12:56 |
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| AStorm | like MPEG-4 SLS | 12:56 |
| * RST38h points out that any audio with percussion instruments is pretty high up there in terms of entropy | 12:57 | |
| AStorm | no, it's not, because that's mostly pink noise | 12:57 |
| RST38h | So, good luck compressing that death metal CD =) | 12:57 |
| AStorm | check out how well that compresses with FLAC - you'll be suprised | 12:58 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 12:58 |
| AStorm | note volume changes rarely | 12:58 |
| RST38h | it does not compress well with MP3, that is for sure | 12:58 |
| AStorm | so Rice coding will drop most bits | 12:58 |
| derf | That's because MP3 is a transform codec. | 12:58 |
| AStorm | yeah, MP3 is sucky on transients | 12:58 |
| AStorm | yup | 12:58 |
| RST38h | But how would FLAC compress it if it is noise, i.e. consists of random unpredictable sequences of samples? | 12:59 |
| AStorm | it's not noise, hehe | 12:59 |
| derf | It's _shaped_ noise. | 12:59 |
| AStorm | yes | 12:59 |
| RST38h | You are not supposed to lose any sequences. You can't make a codebook because they are pretty random. | 12:59 |
| derf | That's what "pink" means. | 12:59 |
| AStorm | "pretty" random | 12:59 |
| AStorm | like a fractal | 12:59 |
| AStorm | see how well fractals compress | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Shaped or not shaped, you have got a semirandom input sequence | 13:00 |
| AStorm | not *that* random. | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Which you are not allowed to lose | 13:00 |
| AStorm | it's still predictable | 13:00 |
| AStorm | even with a linear predictor | 13:00 |
| AStorm | volume changes rarely, for example | 13:00 |
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| * RST38h finds this counterintuitive | 13:00 | |
| AStorm | compression is not that intuitive, yes | 13:01 |
| RST38h | Not *that* weird though, no =) | 13:01 |
| RST38h | Or maybe those percussion tracks are not as random as they seem... | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Also weird. | 13:02 |
| AStorm | yes, they're not random | 13:02 |
| AStorm | the most random part is the *timing* of the spike | 13:02 |
| AStorm | but that doesn't matter with a linear predictor, which can reproduce transients perfectly, even if they won't compress that well | 13:03 |
| *** mat`` is now known as mat | 13:03 | |
| AStorm | (the falling part is predictable though) | 13:03 |
| AStorm | actually, both are | 13:04 |
| AStorm | pity we can't do wavelet compression in any normal amount of CPU time | 13:04 |
| derf | Wavlets are overrated. | 13:05 |
| AStorm | a bit, yes | 13:05 |
| AStorm | to compress well with them, a lot of CPU power is needed... | 13:05 |
| AStorm | the simplest A2DP could use FLAC with changing bit depth | 13:07 |
| AStorm | and/or frequency - if the channel can't sustain the transfer rate | 13:07 |
| AStorm | it does that already afaicr | 13:08 |
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| AStorm | btw, why can't BT+EDR transmit networking faster than those 300 kbps... it should do better! | 13:10 |
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| AStorm | maybe I have some software misconfiguration? | 13:10 |
| RST38h | or you have some other device causing interference | 13:14 |
| AStorm | nope | 13:14 |
| AStorm | it's still going 300 kbps, even though both devices say they support EDR | 13:15 |
| AStorm | heck, why doesn't n810 transfer faster than this | 13:15 |
| AStorm | (because it says it supports EDR too) | 13:15 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, make the prompt for root pass show twice | 13:16 |
| AStorm | everyone has made that mistake at least once | 13:17 |
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| AStorm | oh well, the installer crashed in the initfs flashing step | 13:18 |
| AStorm | salvageable? | 13:18 |
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| AStorm | yup, fortunately, I flashed it before that | 13:19 |
| AStorm | now, time for bootmenu.init | 13:19 |
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| AStorm | eh, now I get crashes at wifi connection... have to go offline mode just after boot | 13:21 |
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| AStorm | ah, that's just my flaky /fs | 13:24 |
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| Stskeeps | crashed in initfs flashing step? hmm :P | 13:25 |
| AStorm | yup | 13:26 |
| AStorm | with a lot of errors about /var/tmp/ whatever | 13:26 |
| AStorm | I'll try to boot it anyway | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | out of space i guess or flaky | 13:26 |
| AStorm | out of space is possible | 13:26 |
| AStorm | where did it dl the 150 MB file? | 13:26 |
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| Stskeeps | to the MMC | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | out of space in /var/tmp that is | 13:27 |
| AStorm | hmm, immc says still 546 MB free | 13:27 |
| AStorm | in /fs | 13:27 |
| AStorm | it says 15 MB free now... | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 13:27 |
| AStorm | no immc in the menu? blah. | 13:28 |
| AStorm | I expected everything to be there | 13:28 |
| AStorm | whatever | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | well that's what the refresh_bootmenu.d step is for :) | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | which crashed | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | it adds the bootmenu.d item | 13:29 |
| AStorm | ok, so I'll have to make it myself - any sample file? | 13:29 |
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| Stskeeps | it will be laying in your /etc/bootmenu.d on your rootfs | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | so just refresh_bootmenu.d to install it - make sure you have space on your / | 13:30 |
| AStorm | nopes | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | well you have more problems with the installer than usual people :P | 13:30 |
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| AStorm | as I mentioned, my rootfs might be flaky ;p | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:30 |
| AStorm | so, I need that sample file to know what to type in | 13:30 |
| AStorm | then reflash initfs and see | 13:31 |
| AStorm | I suspect that flashing initfs was the last step? | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | http://pastebin.com/d2200fb6d | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | it did download, untar and all that jazz? | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | basically all installer does is partition, format, etc, grab the image file, untar it on the ext3, and setting up root password through chroot and write the bootmenu item and flashing it to the initfs | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | you can refresh_bootmenu.d (i assume you ran Install bootmenu once) | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | and it will just update the /etc/bootmenu.d dir on initfs | 13:33 |
| AStorm | yeah, it did | 13:33 |
| AStorm | refresh_bootmenu.d? is that a script? | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:34 |
| AStorm | if so, where is it? | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | /usr/sbin/refresh_bootmenu.d i think | 13:34 |
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| LiraNuna | is the "internal mmc" in the N810 an actual memory card or is it ssd? | 13:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's eMMC | 13:39 |
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| LiraNuna | is it soldered to the board? i.e can it be upgraded in any way? | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, soldered afaik | 13:40 |
| LiraNuna | thank you | 13:43 |
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| AStorm | to be exact, it's BGA | 13:54 |
| AStorm | yes, you can technically replace it with a larger one | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Have fun with that. :P | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | on the other hand, didn't some nokians get higher-gb internal mmc upon n810 release? :P | 13:57 |
| LiraNuna | <AStorm> yes, you can technically replace it with a larger one // I guessed so, but I bet it won't be trivial | 13:57 |
| AStorm | yeah, you need proper BGA hotair | 13:58 |
| AStorm | and buy a larger capacity Samsung eMMC chip | 13:58 |
| AStorm | the latter might be tricky,these are sold per thousand | 13:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, 8GB. Apparently there was a power issue, though. | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 14:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | At least that's what Igor hinted at. | 14:01 |
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| _|Nix|_ | WTF?! I stick a GtkTreeView into a HildonPannableArea, and now I can't select any of its items. Weird ... | 14:06 |
| _|Nix|_ | As soon as I let go, the selection disappears. | 14:06 |
| RST38h | probably swallowing some event | 14:06 |
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| lbt | anyone here look after maemo wiki things? | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hum? | 14:14 |
| lbt | hehe :) | 14:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, well, do you need something? :P | 14:18 |
| lbt | sorry, on mer too | 14:18 |
| lbt | yes | 14:18 |
| lbt | we used to have breadcrumbs | 14:18 |
| lbt | menu | 14:18 |
| lbt | into subpages | 14:18 |
| lbt | so http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/FirstSteps | 14:18 |
| lbt | would have a line at the top | 14:19 |
| lbt | Mer / Documentation / FirstSteps | 14:19 |
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| lbt | with Mer and Documentation 'active' links | 14:19 |
| lbt | *very* useful :) | 14:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guess X-Fade killed them accidentally at some point. | 14:19 |
| lbt | OK - bugworthy? | 14:19 |
| lbt | or "yeah we know" | 14:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Already on it. | 14:19 |
| lbt | cool | 14:19 |
| lbt | ta | 14:20 |
| lbt | :) | 14:20 |
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| qwerty12 | Speaking of the wiki: Is it possible for the discussion link on every wiki page to be coloured in red, like it was with the old theme, if it did not exist? | 14:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably | 14:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though it might be easier to add a string. | 14:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Edit Discussion" or something | 14:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Start Discussion" | 14:22 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4440 | 14:22 |
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| lbt | X-Fade: are you doing the #maemo irc karma calcs? If so I would like to suggest that #mer and #liqbase also count | 14:24 |
| qwerty12 | I'd also like #qwerty'sspamchannel to count so I can get uber amounts of karma | 14:24 |
| lcuk | shhhhh on'tday entionmay #iqbaselay eoplepay illway antway otay ogay | 14:24 |
| lcuk | erethay | 14:24 |
| lcuk | but nice that you include my little chan :$ | 14:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, yeah, saw it. X-Fade will have to tweak the feed. | 14:25 |
| lcuk | i love the fact #mer is hardcore #maemo | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | i don't think there's IRC karma though :P | 14:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, and #canola, and #carman, and #tangentiallyrelatedchannelx | 14:26 |
| lcuk | ~stskeeps++ | 14:26 |
| lcuk | ~karme stskeeps | 14:26 |
| lcuk | ~karma stskeeps | 14:26 |
| infobot | stskeeps has karma of 3 | 14:26 |
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| lcuk | ~stskeeps-- | 14:27 |
| lcuk | ~stskeeps-- | 14:27 |
| lcuk | ~stskeeps-- | 14:27 |
| lcuk | ~karma stskeeps | 14:27 |
| infobot | stskeeps has karma of 2 | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | pfft :P | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | lame. :P | 14:27 |
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| lbt | GeneralAntilles: if mer/liqbase/$channel are worthy of sponsorship to hackfests.... then yes | 14:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, #maemo is the only official maemo.org channel. | 14:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You can make justifications for adding at least a dozen channels to that karma list. | 14:28 |
| lbt | hmm, Stskeeps - can we merbot mirror all #mer in here? | 14:28 |
| lbt | 1 way mind... | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, problem number 1, they're not all logged, or if they are they aren't logged in the same place | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | and problem 2, it just doesn't work like that. | 14:29 |
| lbt | 1 technical easy | 14:29 |
| lbt | 2 make it | 14:29 |
| lbt | 3 close bug | 14:29 |
| lbt | life is so good on saturdays | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | #mer, maybe | 14:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The ONLY way you could justify #liqbase is by including EVERY other vaguely Maemo-related channel on Freenode, too. | 14:30 |
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| lbt | hmm chans for development of 100% maemo apps... heck, they're in the maemo community ;) | 14:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | #liqbase is not 100% Maemo. | 14:32 |
| lbt | and considering the fact that #maemo is 80% whining and 5% constructive... | 14:32 |
| lbt | anyhow, proposal proposed | 14:33 |
| lbt | back to work | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really, your justification for these channels would extend as far out as #tinymail. | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anything more than #maemo is just never going to end. | 14:33 |
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| lbt | #tinymail is quiet | 14:34 |
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| Jaffa | #maemo is a good first step; let's do that and assess if the right people are getting the right scores. | 14:42 |
| lbt | I thought we were already doing #maemo? | 14:43 |
| RST38h | "Google and 47 other companies are being sued over use of the "Android" name. Eric Specht of Android Data alleges that Google "stole first and asked questions later."" | 14:43 |
| RST38h | Eric Specht unexpectedly struck fortune! Hurrah! | 14:44 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, you lied, I wanted that immc to be the default! | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: hmm? :P | 14:44 |
| AStorm | it didn't work. | 14:44 |
| AStorm | :) | 14:44 |
| AStorm | I mean, it booted flash | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | did you hold down button when it asked? | 14:45 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, why is liqbase not 100% maemo? | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | also, immc was the Mer installation, right? | 14:45 |
| AStorm | I did... yes | 14:45 |
| lcuk | its built from the ground up on and for the nokia internet tablets | 14:45 |
| AStorm | and I wanted Mer as the default | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, how often do you brag about running it on other platforms, exactly? :P | 14:45 |
| AStorm | not "hold menu to boot" alternate | 14:45 |
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| AStorm | still, it's good, because I messed up partition ID ;P | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, anyway my point is that there are a lot of channels you can justify indexing for karma that way. . . . | 14:46 |
| AStorm | so, how do I make it the default? | 14:46 |
| lcuk | i have exactly 1 liqbase package and its for maemo, i COULD move away and start whoring myself elsewhere but i dont | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, and, no, we don't calculate any IRC karma. | 14:47 |
| RST38h | irc karma....ah...yummy! | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it has nothing to do with liqbase and everything to do with IRC karma. | 14:47 |
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| * AStorm kicks the broken 2.6.21-omap in the nuts | 14:47 | |
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| AStorm | stupid thing got a watchdog reset on boot again | 14:47 |
| AStorm | (and it was working!) | 14:47 |
| lcuk | i know that - its just your justification was skewed | 14:47 |
| RST38h | OMAP has got nuts, on top of all the other weird hardware?!? | 14:47 |
| AStorm | no, the kernel has | 14:48 |
| AStorm | a lot of nuts working on it | 14:48 |
| AStorm | ;) | 14:48 |
| AStorm | so, who needs 2.6.21 again? | 14:48 |
| lbt | sorry GeneralAntilles but if you aim to measure discussion aimed at contributing to the maemo community then I think you are wrong. If you aim to measure chat in #maemo then fair enough. | 14:50 |
| lbt | "I can't think of a way to bound the number of channels" is a bad counter argument but a valid problem | 14:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, so you want to index #canola, #carman, #tinymail, etc? Hell, I've done a fair bit of community work in my own clan channel #trem-null, so we can index that too. ;) | 14:51 |
| lbt | what is the aim? | 14:51 |
| lbt | measure discussion aimed at contributing to the maemo community ? | 14:51 |
| lbt | so yes | 14:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, whatever, let's start from #maemo and then go from there. | 14:52 |
| lbt | the objective looks like it needs more work to achieve.... that's all | 14:52 |
| lbt | is canola a major application on maemo?... hmm, let me see the download stats.... | 14:53 |
| lbt | and it shows the devs are active and they deserve karma.... | 14:53 |
| lbt | anyhow, as you say, lets take it from #maemo.... but let's not forget the aim is not to measure #maemo | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | You HAVE to come up with concrete guidelines for what's a justified channel. | 14:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'cause if you just go and pick your personal set of favorites. . . . | 14:54 |
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| lbt | no, the council has to | 14:54 |
| lbt | based on their reading of community wishes | 14:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | MY proposal is that it's limited to #maemo. | 14:55 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, so, how do I make that new option the default? | 14:55 |
| AStorm | edit bootmenu.conf? | 14:55 |
| AStorm | and put what there? | 14:55 |
| lbt | l8r, my build needs me | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: sec, meiz just put up that info :) | 14:56 |
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| Stskeeps | AStorm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Bootmenu , second item | 14:57 |
| AStorm | tanks ;) | 14:57 |
| AStorm | ah neat, I didn't know cal-tool can do that | 14:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ah, playing the victim is so much fun. | 15:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody else is just going to have to jump in there. | 15:12 |
| lbt | where? | 15:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=283892#post283892 | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | lbt: The other counter-argument to anything other than #maemo (or rather against #canola et al) is that the product-based chats get their authors karma for downloads. | 15:17 |
| Jaffa | The argument for indexing #maemo is, pretty much, IMHO about recognising people who contribute in the *main* Maemo community spaces. | 15:17 |
| lbt | that works for the whole team does it? | 15:17 |
| Jaffa | lbt: can do - you can have multiple authors against a product | 15:17 |
| lbt | or just the main uploader? | 15:17 |
| Jaffa | For example, mgedmin and I both get karma for https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vim/ | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, you can add as many authors as you want to the Downloads entry. | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | People are awfully quick to say how useless they think the wiki is, but I've yet to see them offer to lend a hand improving it. | 15:18 |
| lbt | you can see how #canola would proportianally represent the team though | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | For that specific example, they're almost all in here anyway. | 15:19 |
| lbt | well, I kinda started it for #mer... and realised it wasn't just us :) | 15:19 |
| Jaffa | lbt: indeed. I'm willing to accept their may be additional channels to include, but let's start with #maemo (after all, there's /some/ resistance to that) and go from there. | 15:19 |
| Jaffa | Actually, concrete proposal: #maemo and #mer to start with. | 15:19 |
| Jaffa | Since #mer is the future for current Maemo-based devices (we all hope ;-)) | 15:20 |
| * Jaffa notices an odd breadcrumb trail bug on the vim downloads page. | 15:21 | |
| Jaffa | "... > Text Editors > vim > vim" | 15:21 |
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| AStorm | Stskeeps, well, your initfs is broken | 16:04 |
| AStorm | I mean, it doesn't boot mer, because... INT_whatwasit is mmcblk0, as Maemo says... but it doesn't work | 16:04 |
| AStorm | any ideas? | 16:04 |
| AStorm | I get a watchdog kill | 16:04 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: INT_CARD vs EXT_CARD is important to remember to have | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | how does your item look? | 16:06 |
| AStorm | ${INT_CARD}p1, which resolves to mmcblk0p1 | 16:12 |
| AStorm | yes, I get a watchdog kill | 16:12 |
| AStorm | this time it installed ok (I made /var/tmp a ramdisk)... but it doesn't boot still | 16:12 |
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| AStorm | might be that I didn't load ext3 stuff, funny though | 16:13 |
| AStorm | as the fs is ext2 | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | mbcache jbd ext3? | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | can i see the whole item? | 16:13 |
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| AStorm | I removed those | 16:14 |
| AStorm | shouldn't be necessary, as the filesystem is ext2 | 16:14 |
| AStorm | maybe I have to load that instead? | 16:14 |
| AStorm | or is it built-in? | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | it isn't, so modules should be mbcache ext2 | 16:15 |
| AStorm | blah, my fail then | 16:15 |
| AStorm | sorry | 16:15 |
| AStorm | hint - add real modprobe there | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | The polls have to end. | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: maemo restriction | 16:16 |
| AStorm | hmmh? | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: how far are you until you go on a violent rampage? :P | 16:16 |
| AStorm | ah, oh well | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: they have no Modules.dep for some silly reason. | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | (we do in Mer.) | 16:16 |
| AStorm | political raisins | 16:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I don't have the energy in me for violent rampages. | 16:16 |
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| AStorm | silly reason being them using busybox | 16:17 |
| AStorm | which has no real modprobe | 16:17 |
| qwerty12_N800 | modprobe is there, depmod not | 16:17 |
| AStorm | yes | 16:17 |
| AStorm | that one | 16:18 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, neat boot logo | 16:19 |
| AStorm | I'd add a submarine | 16:20 |
| AStorm | (for the devel version) | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: hehe | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Mer_Wazd_Wallpaper_Nokian_Ship.jpg | 16:21 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | ;9 | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 16:22 |
| AStorm | why did it pop out virtual keyboard while I have my physical open? ;P | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | because noone wrote the powerlaunch recipe for it yet :P | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | i don't have a n810, so i can't | 16:23 |
| AStorm | also, the virtual keyboard has broken symbol part | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's the example vkb | 16:24 |
| AStorm | hehe | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | which works surprisingly well :P | 16:24 |
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| AStorm | also, the UI failed when I pressed and held the arrow key | 16:25 |
| AStorm | it acted as if I pressed enter | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 16:25 |
| AStorm | so now I have a nasty username :/ | 16:25 |
| AStorm | is it easy to change that? | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | somewhat. you can rm /etc/default/autologin and first-boot-wizard will run again | 16:25 |
| AStorm | mhm, thanks | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | there's flaws, which i obviously hate :P | 16:26 |
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| AStorm | nice work though still | 16:27 |
| AStorm | add a clock to the desktop :) | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | there's large-statusbar-clock to be installed, but yeah | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | when we start porting all of Maemo extras, it's almost all there | 16:28 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 16:28 |
| AStorm | it's also missing one major thing - a way to configure keyboard layout | 16:28 |
| AStorm | so I end up with default qwerty - need PL qwertz :) | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | yeah - we need a control panel for it. http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=283637&postcount=51 :) | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | for most of the initial obvious issues | 16:29 |
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| AStorm | well, hw keyboard is unrelated to HIM | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | sortof. gconf has a setting to hide the kbd | 16:32 |
| AStorm | the signal is being sent via dbus | 16:32 |
| AStorm | no need to twiddle keyboard setting | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | be aware nothing is like it seems, as nokia do a lot of smoke and mirrors in their setup | 16:33 |
| AStorm | that wouldn't work well as it won't hide the vkb when the n810 is opened | 16:33 |
| AStorm | yeah yeah | 16:33 |
| AStorm | still, you can grab that signal from the kernel if needed | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 16:34 |
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| AStorm | the proper mod is to change vkb to not show if lid (yes, that) is open, and hide if lid is open | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 16:34 |
| AStorm | then show back when it's closed | 16:35 |
| AStorm | might do this or I'll get annoyed to no end ;P | 16:35 |
| AStorm | no applet settings? | 16:35 |
| AStorm | so I get to live in Helsinki now? | 16:35 |
| AStorm | ;p | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | it's a demo :) | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | hildon-home-weather | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | i suspect it's one of the first widgets | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | funny fact: Panels crash if there's no installed widgets. | 16:36 |
| AStorm | you forgot to install osso-xterm l18n | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | there actually is no l10in for it | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | l10n | 16:37 |
| AStorm | l10n yep | 16:37 |
| AStorm | hmmmh | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | i18n and l10n | 16:38 |
| AStorm | both look the same, almost ;) | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | yeah :P | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | internationalization and localizatin | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | +o | 16:38 |
| AStorm | ah btw, hildon-home-weather is not in path | 16:39 |
| AStorm | so how do I change those Helsinki to something useful? | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | it's a demo, so it's 34 C in helsinki all day :P | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | (hint: it rarely gets to be 34 C in helsinki) :P | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | so just disable it until we get a real weather applet like omweather | 16:40 |
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| AStorm | aw drat | 16:42 |
| AStorm | I hoped it's already more or less usable :-( | 16:42 |
| AStorm | Now I get to install something working a bit more | 16:42 |
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| AStorm | note: it doesn't allow me to sudo -s | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | sudo su and use your password, it's a ubuntu | 16:43 |
| AStorm | sudo -s should work too | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 16:43 |
| lbt | Astorm.... http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/FirstSteps | 16:43 |
| AStorm | holding escape key isn't bound to "home" | 16:43 |
| konttori | is it expected that python hildon bindings in extras-devel are broken (for fremnantle) | 16:44 |
| AStorm | meh | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: there's a home button isn't there? :P | 16:45 |
| AStorm | either sudo is broken, or I mistyped the root pass | 16:45 |
| AStorm | the one below menu, yes | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | use 'su' with the root password you used in installed | 16:45 |
| AStorm | ah | 16:45 |
| AStorm | just su then | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | sudo su ought to work though | 16:46 |
| AStorm | yep, that works | 16:46 |
| AStorm | sudo su doesn't | 16:46 |
| AStorm | yes, it isn't in sudoers | 16:47 |
| AStorm | maybe add %wheel setting or such | 16:47 |
| AStorm | now, I need some good TODO app. | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | if you know one from ubuntu, it's probably there :p | 16:48 |
| AStorm | vkb forgets the "hiding" state | 16:49 |
| *** simon_ has quit IRC | 16:49 | |
| AStorm | and it's not showable from it, despite leaving a yucky white bar at the bottom | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 16:50 |
| AStorm | there's no battery monitor yet, right? | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | apt-get install tablet-battery-monitor | 16:50 |
| AStorm | thanks | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | it'll grab hald-addon-bme and such and install advanced power and such | 16:51 |
| AStorm | you forgot gpg | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 16:52 |
| AStorm | and now apt-get warns about it :) | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | or didn't include it | 16:52 |
| AStorm | libperl is missing | 16:53 |
| AStorm | perl cries about missing object | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | we took a minbase originally so | 16:53 |
| AStorm | oh drat | 16:53 |
| AStorm | now stuff broke | 16:53 |
| GAN800 | Unending insanity. | 16:53 |
| AStorm | I mean, apt | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | error? | 16:53 |
| AStorm | it's missing libc | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | eh. | 16:54 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, did you apt-get update first? | 16:54 |
| AStorm | libapt-pkg-libc6.9-6.so.4.7 | 16:54 |
| AStorm | yes | 16:54 |
| AStorm | "don't do that"? | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | no, you should, hmm | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | can you get me the error somehow? | 16:54 |
| * lbt added tablet-battery-monitor to First Steps | 16:54 | |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, I told you | 16:54 |
| AStorm | apt-get is missing that lib | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | fantastic. | 16:55 |
| * Stskeeps wonders what the jaunty people broke | 16:55 | |
| AStorm | enough I think ;P | 16:55 |
| AStorm | now, the question is - how do I fix | 16:55 |
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| Stskeeps | dpkg -l apt for me | 16:56 |
| AStorm | X -version now fails too... | 16:56 |
| AStorm | "failed to exec dpkg-query: No such file or directory" | 16:56 |
| AStorm | it exploded | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | that's rather weird | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | seems like your installation didn't finish that well | 16:57 |
| AStorm | I installed again | 16:57 |
| AStorm | and it installed correctly that time | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 16:57 |
| AStorm | weird, eh? | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so steps to get this far, it broke before doing anything, in apt-get install tablet-battery-monitor? | 16:57 |
| AStorm | I can redo it once more | 16:57 |
| AStorm | no | 16:57 |
| AStorm | it broke *after* doing that | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | k | 16:58 |
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| AStorm | dpkg itself is fine, dpkg-query indeed doesn't exist | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | works fine for me | 16:59 |
| AStorm | so, what should I install with it to fix that? | 16:59 |
| AStorm | full url plz :-/ | 17:00 |
| AStorm | or at least repo + name - I'll check if midori works still | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: dpkg should have that in it's own package O_o | 17:01 |
| AStorm | except it doesn't here? | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | i have same image as you | 17:01 |
| AStorm | hmmh, link to midori failed - what is the pathname? | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | dmesg says anything? | 17:01 |
| AStorm | only stuff about cx3310x powersaving | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | well at least that part works :P | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | how big partition did you make for Mer? | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK_ | I'd like to know why the input statusbar keeps appearing and reappearing randomly while using bluetooth keyboard... | 17:02 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, whole immc | 17:03 |
| AStorm | that is, 2GB, there's enough free space | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: hmm | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: that's really awkward that your setup acts like that | 17:03 |
| AStorm | uh, btw, why did it load umac? | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | cos stlc45xx doesn't work under 2.6.21 | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | (it grabs umac from initfs) | 17:04 |
| lbt | hmm, I did "apt-get install tablet-battery-monitor" and got an xterm entry in Extras "install monitor" | 17:04 |
| AStorm | mhm | 17:04 |
| AStorm | I did that and my system exploded | 17:05 |
| lbt | clicking that pulled up app-mgr | 17:05 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: did you make swap btw? | 17:05 |
| lbt | added "battery repo" | 17:05 |
| AStorm | no, I didn't | 17:05 |
| * lbt has no swap | 17:05 | |
| Stskeeps | just to diagnose | 17:05 |
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| AStorm | lbt, here it didn't and perl exploded | 17:06 |
| AStorm | maybe stuff "just broke" | 17:06 |
| lbt | by exploded... | 17:06 |
| lbt | LANG = "en_GB.UTF-8"# | 17:06 |
| lbt | crap? | 17:06 |
| AStorm | 71% in use | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: what username did it end up with anyway? | 17:07 |
| AStorm | 13% inodes in use | 17:07 |
| AStorm | my name, that is "radoslaw" | 17:07 |
| AStorm | bleh | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | ah, that's the if [ $USERNAME = radoslaw ]; then mess shit up fi | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | can i see your bootmenu item? | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | pastebin | 17:07 |
| AStorm | sure, that part works | 17:07 |
| AStorm | hmmh, w/o a browser it might be tricky | 17:08 |
| AStorm | I'll sftp it | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:08 |
| b0unc3 | \quit | 17:08 |
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| AStorm | ssh started fine | 17:08 |
| AStorm | nopes. | 17:09 |
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| AStorm | wow, now it can't find stuff like "dirname" | 17:10 |
| AStorm | or dircolors | 17:10 |
| AStorm | that's lesspipe crying | 17:11 |
| AStorm | interesting | 17:11 |
| AStorm | seems like sftp doesn't work | 17:13 |
| AStorm | I'll try scp | 17:13 |
| AStorm | hmm, connection refused, wth? | 17:14 |
| AStorm | no syslog? meeeeeh. | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | logread or readlog | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow, i gotta go to shop | 17:15 |
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| AStorm | nothing interesing | 17:16 |
| AStorm | excluding UsePAM yes. :P | 17:16 |
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| AStorm | but as I said, that part works | 17:17 |
| AStorm | I've exactly the same config as you gave me, with exception of INT_CARD and ext2 instead of jbd ext3 | 17:18 |
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| slonopotamus | hello from xchat from gnome from gentoo from n800! | 17:25 |
| slonopotamus | join us & be happy :D | 17:26 |
| gomiam | slonopotamus: nice... but I'm doing alright with Pidgin from Maemo ;) | 17:28 |
| thux | slonopotamus: can you use many tablets as distcc? | 17:28 |
| thux | usually gentoo folks got distcc between all machines :) | 17:30 |
| slonopotamus | everything can be used for distcc | 17:33 |
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| thux | distcc is useful in gentoo | 17:36 |
| thux | how to mount usb stick to tablet? (got usb hub and cable) does it mount automatically like sdcard? | 17:38 |
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| keesj | thux: yes it pop's up the file manager , but you first need to put the device in host mode, there is /was a usb control applet for that | 17:46 |
| thux | ok thanx | 17:51 |
| radic__ | qw | 17:51 |
| radic__ | Stskeeps: you are awake? | 17:51 |
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| lbt | he's gone shopping | 17:53 |
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| lopz | hola | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: i have seem your symptoms before - when i used ext2 | 18:36 |
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| Stskeeps | it messes up the fs for some odd reason | 18:37 |
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| * Jaffa really wants a "FOAD" button alongside "Thanks!" after the last few days | 18:52 | |
| Stskeeps | "FOAD"? | 18:53 |
| Jaffa | F**k Off And Die, IIRC. | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | ah. | 18:53 |
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| sjgadsby | Come on, it's all the fault of those evil maemo.org folks. | 18:54 |
| * sjgadsby grins. | 18:54 | |
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| lcuk | jaffa, if you get a FOAD button added it will erupt in a whole new set of threads about the placement and syntax etc :P | 19:03 |
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| * RST38h notices how the council members are walking the traditional road to mass murder | 19:04 | |
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| sjgadsby | You'd prefer they take a non-traditional path to that destination, RST38h? | 19:05 |
| RST38h | "We will make everybody's life better! -***- These people complain. -***- These people complain no matter what we do. -***- They are blaming us. -***- They are obnoxious. -***- KILL KILL KILL" | 19:05 |
| RST38h | sjgadsby: Actually, yes. It would be more entertaining. | 19:06 |
| pupnik | i'd love a big honkin system drive on rx51 | 19:06 |
| pupnik | for the lushness of the future | 19:06 |
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| lcuk | 12 cylinder? | 19:07 |
| pupnik | yeah - given n8x0 = 4 cylinder | 19:07 |
| lcuk | pupnik, better going for faster modem and better connectivity that way you can just upgrade your home base with however many racks you need | 19:08 |
| pupnik | if i were doing nx or vnc i might as well use a n800 | 19:08 |
| pupnik | just thinking about the kinds of OSs i'd enjoy, or the number of installed apps which is currently very limited | 19:09 |
| lcuk | nahh u could still use the 192GB onboard memory as a buffer | 19:09 |
| pupnik | i was hoping for 768MB | 19:09 |
| lcuk | but for days when your 1234832458348523842834234324songs arent enough at least you know you can dive into your back catalog | 19:09 |
| lcuk | i do agree there tho | 19:10 |
| pupnik | btw what's wrong? | 19:10 |
| lcuk | on my 810 its a bit of a squeeze | 19:10 |
| lcuk | hand | 19:10 |
| pupnik | mhm | 19:10 |
| lcuk | v sore | 19:10 |
| lcuk | stitches out in an hour | 19:10 |
| pupnik | :/ howd you cut it? | 19:10 |
| lcuk | nokia ovi | 19:10 |
| pupnik | dangerous work i suppose | 19:11 |
| lcuk | heh - ovi is finnish for door | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: well when you change people's daily rhythm, the internet is full of people of people afraid of change :P | 19:12 |
| Jaffa | It's not just the theme changes :-( | 19:12 |
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| * pupnik supports Jaffa, for whatever it's worth | 19:13 | |
| Jaffa | pupnik: ta :) | 19:15 |
| Jaffa | Nice to know one isn't banging ones head against a brick wall. | 19:15 |
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| pupnik | i think the main benefit will be encouraging more activity on maemo.org by the itt userbase | 19:17 |
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| AStorm | Stskeeps, why does ext2 mess up then? | 19:19 |
| AStorm | maemo works fine here with ext2 immc... | 19:19 |
| AStorm | I can switch to ext3, why not | 19:19 |
| AStorm | also, 2.6.21 has to die. | 19:21 |
| AStorm | I can help killing it | 19:21 |
| AStorm | (if Mer happens to work) | 19:21 |
| AStorm | btw, do you have mapper packaged already? | 19:22 |
| pupnik | when do we switch to gcc 4? | 19:25 |
| AStorm | Mer should be built with that already... if it's not, that's some fail | 19:25 |
| AStorm | same with Fremantle | 19:25 |
| pupnik | i dunno | 19:25 |
| AStorm | it's ABI-compatible, eh | 19:25 |
| AStorm | (maybe one package more for older libstdc++) | 19:26 |
| pupnik | k | 19:26 |
| pupnik | with gcc 4 i think we can oprofile dosbox | 19:26 |
| pupnik | er i mean | 19:27 |
| pupnik | use the -f optimizations | 19:27 |
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| AStorm | yeah | 19:27 |
| AStorm | still, we could use some assembly in there for dynamic mode | 19:27 |
| pupnik | yes, there is a dynamic recompiler that could give 100% boost | 19:28 |
| pupnik | and new sound blaster emulation | 19:28 |
| pupnik | it's quite exciting really | 19:28 |
| AStorm | gah, if I had more time and will | 19:28 |
| AStorm | :-( | 19:28 |
| * AStorm goes to hunt some quantum mechanics | 19:28 | |
| pupnik | you studying?> | 19:28 |
| AStorm | ayup | 19:28 |
| pupnik | do that then | 19:29 |
| AStorm | except I'm doing something else - hwr | 19:29 |
| AStorm | Mer will love it ;P | 19:29 |
| pupnik | is it a secret? | 19:29 |
| AStorm | handwriting recognition, heh | 19:29 |
| RST38h | with or without dynamic recompilation, you probably won't have much luck with x86 on arm | 19:30 |
| AStorm | sure I will | 19:31 |
| AStorm | JIT will speed up a lot | 19:31 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: Ok. Who will do segment checks? | 19:31 |
| AStorm | dosbox is not *that* intensive running modern protected mode code | 19:31 |
| RST38h | AStorm: And address translation? | 19:31 |
| AStorm | ... protected mode. No segments. | 19:31 |
| AStorm | segments will have to be emulated, yes | 19:31 |
| RST38h | What do you mean "no segments"? | 19:31 |
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| RST38h | Segment checks occur in protected mode | 19:32 |
| AStorm | don't we have no-execute-alike? | 19:32 |
| AStorm | could abuse that | 19:32 |
| RST38h | Not on arbitrary address ranges :) | 19:32 |
| AStorm | hmh | 19:32 |
| AStorm | arm has no segmentation protection? | 19:32 |
| AStorm | I thought it had some | 19:33 |
| AStorm | and we do have MMU in n810 | 19:34 |
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| AStorm | what CPU do we have here? ARM1156 family? | 19:38 |
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| Jaffa | Yay, more conspiracies. | 19:39 |
| AStorm | nah, ARM1136 | 19:40 |
| AStorm | sure yeah, its MMU supports protection with non-aligned regions even | 19:44 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: Pages != x86 segments | 19:45 |
| RST38h | Ah | 19:45 |
| AStorm | I don't care actually, x86 segments were aligned on page boundary | 19:46 |
| AStorm | (x86 page, 4KB) | 19:46 |
| RST38h | nope | 19:47 |
| RST38h | they were aligned to 16 bytes | 19:47 |
| RST38h | still are, too | 19:48 |
| AStorm | hmm, true | 19:48 |
| AStorm | no problem for ARM though | 19:48 |
| RST38h | anyways, x86 has got so much weird non-optional hardware that simulating it on a different architecture quickly is near impossible | 19:48 |
| RST38h | good for Intel monopoly though =) | 19:49 |
| AStorm | all that is done in dosbox already | 19:49 |
| AStorm | we have to add the JIT for CPU if possible | 19:49 |
| RST38h | I know it is, but not quickly enough | 19:49 |
| AStorm | that should help a lot | 19:49 |
| AStorm | another bit is sound emulation | 19:49 |
| RST38h | yes, it will help...a bit | 19:49 |
| AStorm | a huge way, not a bit | 19:52 |
| AStorm | because just using the JIT would be a good gain | 19:52 |
| AStorm | and writing that JITted code in assembly should help even more | 19:53 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: At the end of the day, it will still be slow. Unless you ake a few shortcuts of course, but that may kill compatibility | 19:55 |
| AStorm | fast enough to run some things | 19:56 |
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| AStorm | Stskeeps, are you making the rootfs with dir_index? | 19:57 |
| RST38h | yea, true | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: not sure, maybe | 20:00 |
| AStorm | check for -O dir_index | 20:00 |
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| AStorm | meh... how do I tell merinstaller that I have the mer file on n810 already? | 20:01 |
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| pupnik | i think you'll be able to run 16mhz 386 games on next dosbox on next tablet | 20:03 |
| pupnik | with sb1/2 emulation running, frameskip 1-2 | 20:03 |
| pupnik | basically it means breaking out of the ega and into the vga era | 20:03 |
| RST38h | Let me see... | 20:04 |
| RST38h | 386 did one instruction in 4-8 clocks, on the average | 20:04 |
| AStorm | except we have to simulate gfx scanlining | 20:05 |
| RST38h | I.e. we are talking about 2-4MIPS | 20:05 |
| AStorm | and do some scaling | 20:05 |
| lcuk | pupnik, you mentioned dangerous work, heres an outline of what happened http://slashdot.org/~LiquidCoooled/journal/229097 | 20:05 |
| RST38h | Ah forget graphics for now, VGA graphics is really simple anyway | 20:05 |
| lcuk | graphics on 810 are fast enough | 20:05 |
| pupnik | good grief lcuk | 20:06 |
| RST38h | Yes, you should be able to do 2-4MIPS on N8x0 | 20:06 |
| AStorm | except you have to simulate the scanlines and scale the output... (the latter can be hardware, I also want an Xv driver for dosbox) | 20:06 |
| pupnik | you could bank on my prediction RST38h :) too much time spent with dosbox | 20:06 |
| AStorm | (no opengl on my radeonhd yet) | 20:07 |
| AStorm | unless we can drive the LCD at exactly the needed VGA clock | 20:07 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Of course that should be Evil Nokia Conspiracy (tm) | 20:07 |
| RST38h | In fact, let us just use ENC from now on | 20:07 |
| AStorm | Nokia Siemens Conspiracy ;) | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Now, THIS sound wrong | 20:08 |
| RST38h | =) | 20:08 |
| AStorm | recently, there has been some "inteligent building" demo of the two companies... together | 20:08 |
| AStorm | just outside my uni | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Isn't "intelligent building" exactly what cuts fingers, suffocates people with halon, locks them in elevators, etc? =) | 20:14 |
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| AStorm | rarely | 20:16 |
| AStorm | elevators lock more often in dumb buildings actually | 20:17 |
| AStorm | the "cuts fingers" part was due to a handle on door | 20:17 |
| AStorm | *doors | 20:17 |
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| AStorm | who needs handles when the door open automatically? | 20:17 |
| AStorm | (yes, for emergencies) | 20:17 |
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| lcuk | bbl stitches out | 20:20 |
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| AStorm | RST38h, also, halon bombing is more likely in a dumb building too | 20:23 |
| AStorm | because that will just detect smoke | 20:23 |
| AStorm | (instead of checking also temperature and optical) | 20:23 |
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| RST38h | AStorm <-- completely discounts the idea of evil AI | 20:28 |
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| AStorm | I do know that people can be more evil than AI. So, yeah. | 20:32 |
| RST38h | That is ill-intentioned | 20:34 |
| RST38h | AI has no intentions, it is just evil | 20:34 |
| AStorm | that's why it can't be evil | 20:34 |
| AStorm | evil requires selfishness | 20:35 |
| AStorm | that's an intention | 20:35 |
| AStorm | ;P | 20:35 |
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| RST38h | mmm....not necessarily | 20:39 |
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| AStorm | oh really? tell me the reason for being evil, other than self-interest... | 20:43 |
| AStorm | ;P | 20:43 |
| RST38h | The most common reason is good intentions | 20:43 |
| RST38h | Half the original commies were selfless, good intentioned men | 20:44 |
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| elninja__ | what about the other half? | 21:12 |
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| RST38h | elnijnja: selfish guys who killed the first half, but only after the first half managed to slaughter/starve/execute/etc great deal of human beings | 21:30 |
| pupnik | http://www.amazon.com/Black-Book-Communism-Crimes-Repression/dp/0674076087/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241289235&sr=8-1 | 21:34 |
| pupnik | The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression (Hardcover) | 21:34 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo TrueJournals | 21:34 |
| RST38h | Ah, it is probably the usual anticommie drivel | 21:34 |
| TrueJournals | Hello Stskeeps | 21:34 |
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| pupnik | "Tthe authors have slowly, methodically, relentlessly added example after example to put in display, naked, a monster that killed tens of millions in the 20th Century and that will continue to kill (one hopes in a far smaller scale) in the 21st until it wastes itself out and vanishes." | 21:35 |
| RST38h | Prolly not, it has been all but extinct | 21:35 |
| derf | Tell that to China. | 21:36 |
| RST38h | Unless, of course, the world goes into really bad economic misery | 21:36 |
| derf | Not that I'm accusing them of killing tens of millions... at least not right now... but they are ostensibly Communist. | 21:36 |
| RST38h | derf: How much of Chinese politics is due to ideology and how much is due to these guys being Chinese? :) | 21:36 |
| RST38h | derf: (btw absolutely same thing can be asked about USSR, especially now when we see that few things changed on top) | 21:37 |
| derf | Right... I think the label "Communist" matters a lot less than it used to. | 21:37 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: For real entertainment, try this: http://www.amazon.com/Pol-Pot-Nightmare-Philip-Short/dp/0805080066/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239408260&sr=1-1 | 21:38 |
| pupnik | :/ bookmarked | 21:39 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: None of the original commies are even *close* to this French philosophy student =) | 21:39 |
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| pupnik | 'day zero' | 21:39 |
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| s7 | hi, i need to delete a dead link from the 'extras'-menue on my nokia n810; the program is already deleted. can any1 give me a hint where to do that? | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK_ | how did you "delete" it? | 22:36 |
| s7 | via program manager | 22:37 |
| s7 | i think the link is still there because the software i deleted is navit, it updated itself 2 times | 22:37 |
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| mikkov__ | is this the next tablet or n97 http://callingallinnovators.com/Wiki_Places.html | 22:39 |
| lcuk | s7 /usr/share/applications/hildon/[app].desktop | 22:39 |
| s7 | thx a lot, lcuk | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | mikkov__: looks n97 | 22:41 |
| mikkov__ | ui looks maemo5? | 22:41 |
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| ShadowJK_ | the icons look like Nokia Mapps | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK_ | Maps* | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, you're right | 22:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | physically, it looks like an N97 but I would agree with mikkov_ on the UI | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK_ | wayfinder of Maemo has diff icons iirc | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK_ | oh right it says maos below | 22:44 |
| ShadowJK_ | i just looked at the picture heh | 22:44 |
| xnt_asleep | ^ Maemo5 + N97? | 22:45 |
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| * xnt wants | 22:45 | |
| xnt | Maemo 5 has 3g support | 22:46 |
| xnt | ? | 22:46 |
| s7 | does an1one in here use navit with openstreetmap on an n810? | 22:46 |
| ShadowJK_ | It would be funny if there was theme X available for both S60_5thED and Maemo5 | 22:46 |
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| xnt | im guessing that maemo5 will be on nokia's other phones also | 22:47 |
| * xnt will have to buy a new phone noq | 22:47 | |
| xnt | *now | 22:47 |
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| xnt | that site just crashed my browser :( | 22:48 |
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| fireun | what a meanie | 22:49 |
| Macer | hello | 22:49 |
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| penguinbait | hola | 22:53 |
| xnt | is there a maemo5 vmdk? or a kvm image? | 22:57 |
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| Macer | anybody see the wolverine movie? | 22:58 |
| Macer | was wondering if it was as bad as x3 | 22:58 |
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| * fireun will wait for dvd | 22:59 | |
| fireun | it looks like a flash in the pan | 22:59 |
| fireun | no substance | 22:59 |
| lbt | she dies at the end and the butler did it | 22:59 |
| fireun | never trust the butler, with that damn smirk all the time | 23:00 |
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| fireun | "oooh, I'm gonna serve yer drink, oooh, let me open the door for yeh" *KNIFE KNIFE KNIFE* | 23:01 |
| fireun | so of course, wolverine has no chance | 23:01 |
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| fireun | xavier was a butler once, I bet you didnt know that | 23:04 |
| penguinbait | xnt, your probably better off making your own, just download the installer scripts, and install ubuntu on vm yourself | 23:05 |
| penguinbait | it would be faster for sure | 23:06 |
| xnt | pb: ok thanks | 23:06 |
| AStorm | hello | 23:13 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, could we have xchat in Mer repos please? <dog eyes> | 23:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it is there. | 23:13 |
| lcuk | thats a windows app tho | 23:14 |
| lcuk | mikkov_, / xnt ^ | 23:14 |
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| lcuk | or do s60 devices have the same style windows xp type scrollbars | 23:15 |
| AStorm | oh, in Other... why there? :P | 23:15 |
| AStorm | not Communication? | 23:15 |
| xnt | lcuk: what? | 23:15 |
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| lcuk | the ui mikkov_ posted | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | AStorm: i'm using the new package category for that package. don't think mer is using them atm though :/ | 23:16 |
| AStorm | yeah, it isn't | 23:16 |
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| AStorm | Advanced Power is crying about missing hal-addon-bme - I recommend a symlink | 23:16 |
| AStorm | oh, wait, diff. server | 23:17 |
| AStorm | then a repo link | 23:17 |
| AStorm | also, fix that Organize finally or sth | 23:19 |
| AStorm | (and/or tell me how to reorder stuff manually) | 23:19 |
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| xnt | yeah ok | 23:22 |
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| ShadowJK_ | xnt, I have this terrible feeling that nokia will try to do something "revolutionary" and "progressive", and make a "phone" without GSM/3G voice, just VoIP and maybe UMA | 23:31 |
| xnt | ShadowJK_: thats my exact fear, but by the looks of that picture that mikkov posted maemo5 will also be runable on the n97 :) | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK_ | Doesn't mean they'd necessarily have legacy voice support in maemo :) | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK_ | speaking of UMA, they should really have that on every S60 atleast :( | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK_ | not just ONE model :/ | 23:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | mikkov_: last i checked any Maps app that might exist for Maemo5 was nowhere near remotely usable | 23:49 |
| timeless_mbp | so I'd bet against it being related to Maemo5 :) | 23:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | also, the scrollbar in one of the slides to me indicates someone isn't very good w/ PhotoShop | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | i mean... really | 23:51 |
| AStorm | ShadowJK_, even then, we can fix that | 23:51 |
| AStorm | as in, it's released with all proper docs for the modem and it's the first thing being done :) | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | people need to learn how to PhotoShop :( | 23:52 |
| AStorm | lern2gimp | 23:52 |
| AStorm | ;P | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK_ | nah | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK_ | docs wont be forthcoming | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | so, let's play a game | 23:52 |
| AStorm | why not... it's not like GSM modems contain hundreds of trade secrets | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone tell me what else is wrong between frame 1 and frame 2 of wiki-steps.jpg? | 23:53 |
| lcuk | timeless, alternatively they could use the screenshot tool on the device itself | 23:53 |
| AStorm | but yes, some companies are crazy | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK_ | Or atleast I thought Nokia made a point of it when Symbian gained RTOS capability, that they now could run softmodem and the OS on the same single CPU rather than having two different CPUs for it | 23:53 |
| AStorm | all we need is a way to talk to it in actual raw packet way | 23:53 |
| timeless_mbp | frame-1 = "Services", frame-2 = "WikiPlaces" | 23:53 |
| AStorm | then you can have normal voice via GPRS | 23:54 |
| AStorm | or even old GSM | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK_ | And Linux never gained any softmodem implementation on the regular telephone side, so I'd assume it'd never gain an implementation for 3g and gsm either :) | 23:54 |
| lcuk | lololol timeless i notice something else | 23:54 |
| AStorm | uhm? | 23:54 |
| AStorm | wrong. | 23:54 |
| AStorm | 3G and GSM are much easier | 23:54 |
| AStorm | softmodems require knowledge of the modem chips | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: what did you notice? :) | 23:54 |
| AStorm | it's not like we don't have software radios already | 23:55 |
| lcuk | either the app took a LONG time to start, ot they have a tardis or its multi sessions :D | 23:55 |
| AStorm | so, if we can feed it raw packets... (supposing these are well-formed) | 23:55 |
| AStorm | but for FCC cert purposes Nokia will have to provide a binary blob driver anyway | 23:55 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: good catch :) | 23:55 |
| AStorm | :/ | 23:55 |
| AStorm | (if they go software way at all) | 23:55 |
| timeless_mbp | what else? :) | 23:56 |
| lcuk | timeless, the frame1 to 2 titles are expected to change arent they - if after all the user clicked a button and ran a different app | 23:56 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: general placement and width of buttons should not change | 23:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | since in theory they're managed by the platform | 23:56 |
| timeless_mbp | sure you can expect "Services" to be replaced by "Wiki Places" | 23:56 |
| lcuk | ooh i hadnt caught that one lol | 23:56 |
| lcuk | you sir have a good eye :) | 23:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm not quite sure about the right edge | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | but whatever thing on the left ... i claim that's a photoshopping error | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | and that leaves not much confidence for the right side :) | 23:57 |
| timeless_mbp | oh. and would someone please remind me to kill whichever map localizer was involved? | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | "Your Current Position is" <- what kind of Drunken Titlecaps is That!?? | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | btw, please excuse my ignorance of metric units, but... | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | do you usually write: "1km", "1k", "1 k", "1 km", or something else? :) | 23:59 |
| AStorm | 1 km | 23:59 |
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