IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-05-01

lcukjaffa, i would hate to go back to windowed, the tablet doesnt need a pen (unlike the x41)00:00
lcukand i must say having it never overlap but still under the direct control of the desktop is a godsend00:00
jeremiah_RST38h: Not even close, Apache has a huge community.00:00
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JaffaI'm sure. But a) I suggested it as an option; and b) this is about making Maemo development more accessible and easy, so not limiting the options. The trouble is there's pretty much one "normal" way of doing Maemo development and it's hard. Make a really easy way, and more of it gets done.00:01
jeremiah_Again, I think Jaffa is right about desktop-based development, we have to jump through too many hoops00:01
RST38hjeremiah: You keep giving concrete examples00:01
lcukyeah jaffa00:01
jeremiah_Stskeeps: The point is, if I had the sources, I could fix the problems.00:01
jeremiah_Stskeeps: The problems are small and trivial, and they can be fixed, but Nokia has other priorities.00:02
RST38hjeremiah: To prove your point, you need statistics: Debian has X packages in its repos, Y of these packages have sizable (>10 people) communitiies00:02
jeremiah_RST38h: okay, look at the debian perl team00:02
RST38hjeremiah: if Y/X is significantly large, your point is proven00:02
jeremiah_60+ developers, 1000+ packages00:02
jeremiah_Catalyst, Jifty, mod_perl00:02
jeremiah_All handled by us.00:03
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RST38hSo, that is one project, right?00:03
jeremiah_Give me the source, I will fix your broken code.00:03
RST38hI doubt that00:03
jeremiah_Well, look at debian.00:03
jeremiah_That is what they say and do.00:04
RST38hSee above00:04
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RST38hNot concrete examples, statistics00:04
jeremiah_Your logic is backwards, statistics come from concrete examples.00:04
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RST38hjeremiah: no, my logic is that the proof of "source = community" statement should come from statistics00:05
luke-jr_jeremiah_: nope00:05
luke-jr_jeremiah_: statistics come from thin air00:05
ShadowJK_It's pretty interesting how people approach the whole developing for tablet thing anyway... I was like "hm... need a sshd.. good, I can log in to it... now an editor... where's gcc?", and other people are like "where's the emulator plugin for emacs^Weclipse?"00:05
RST38hjeremiah: you are trying to prove it with a few concrete examples, disregarding the fact that for each of your examples there are 100 packages with source available but without community00:05
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lcukShadowJK_, agreed, i didnt think thats how i handle dev it appears like now i sit at a desk and expect the tools to be at hand00:06
jeremiah_RST38h: Look, all I'm saying is that Nokia can easily get a GPG key to sign these packages I am installing.00:06
jeremiah_RST38h: Is that really so much to ask?00:06
RST38hjeremiah: not really, this sounds reasonable00:06
jeremiah_If they don't have time, let me do it.00:07
RST38hjeremiah: if they understand and care, that is00:07
jeremiah_I am happy to do it.00:07
lcukpopular source is popular00:07
jeremiah_lcuk: Weighing in with the tautologies are we?00:07
lcukwell i cant do much else lol00:07
* RST38h feeds lcuk bacon00:08
lcukits not bacon i need i want the pills to kick in00:08
RST38hlcuk: :(00:08
lcukjeremiah_, garage has got git support now hasnt it00:09
jeremiah_lcuk: Yes - I believe it does00:10
RST38h"...the new Star Trek XI movie, the reboot, will not have any spoken Klingon in it Á00:10
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jeremiah_You know things are bad when lcuk doesn't want any bacon00:10
jeremiah_NO KLINGON?00:11
ShadowJK_will there be klingons in it but no spoken klingon?00:11
jeremiah_What am I paying for?00:11
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ShadowJK_or will there be no klingons period?00:11
lcukthey dropped the scene in rura penthe didnt they00:11
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RST38hthey will just release it on DVD in "uncut" version, and sell it to you for $120.00:12
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lcukim gonna vanish for a bit00:12
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lcukthx j00:12
RST38hg'luck lcuk00:13
RST38hmoo lardman00:13
lardman|homehi RST38h00:13
lardman|homelcuk: trying to stop the onset of gangrene?00:13
qwerty12_N800morning lardman|home00:13
lardman|homeqwerty12_N800: for someone no doubt ;)00:13
lardman|home"morning" to you too qwerty12_N80000:13
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lardman|homehmm, 3 swine flu cases in London now...00:16
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lardman|homehmm, trip 400ms off the shutdown time by trimming the length of the shutdown sound effects, sounds like a pretty important step in both technical and user-experience terms00:19
jaskaconsidering one of the first things done to a windows installation is rip out the stupid sounds :D00:20
RST38h"It's indicative of really the level and detail and scrutiny on Windows 7."00:20
* RST38h curses00:20
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lardman|homeI wonder if that "indicative" was supposed to be ironic?00:21
RST38hJust throw it out of the window already and go with a Unix kernel.00:21
luke-jr_there is a "Unix kernel"00:22
luke-jr_oh, context00:22
RST38hluke: FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, or Solaris all qualify as Unix kernels00:22
luke-jr_i c00:23
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jeremiah_RST38h: Not really.00:23
lardman|homeunix-style then?00:23
jeremiah_The BSDs share a kernel, Darwin uses a Mach kernel called Xnu00:23
luke-jr_jeremiah_: since when?00:24
jeremiah_luke-jr_: Since they moved to OS X00:24
luke-jr_I mean BSDs sharing a kernel00:24
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jeremiah_luke-jr_: Well, they can, and did, but most likely don't right now.00:25
jeremiah_Linux is just a kernel.00:25
luke-jr_I'm aware Linux is just a kernel00:25
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jeremiah_So when debian adds support for a *BSD kernel, you can have a debian GNU userland00:25
jeremiah_and a *BSD kernel00:26
luke-jr_Debian has already done so00:26
luke-jr_FreeBSD's kernel00:26
jeremiah_luke-jr_: Not really.00:26
jeremiah_It is on the way.00:26
jeremiah_It will take a while.00:26
luke-jr_jeremiah_: last I heard it was officially supported00:26
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jeremiah_luke-jr_: Well, you may not have read the entire announcement. :)00:26
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mavhcquestion is: why is windows single tasking whilst playing a shut down sound?00:27
lardman|homemavhc: oh it's not that of couse, it's just so fast at shutting everything else down that it has to wait on the 3s shutdown sound ;)00:28
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lardman|homethough in reality I imagine the shutdown sound is user dependent, so it can't log the user out before it's played it00:28
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mavhcnot as if vista shuts down anyway, it defaults to sleep mode00:29
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lardman|homeno idea, I've only had the misfortune to have to fix it on my mother-in-law-to-be's laptop00:30
lardman|homeand laptops always do wierd stuff00:30
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RST38hjeremiah: BSDs do not share kernel00:38
RST38hjeremiah: Darwin, which I have not mentione don the list, uses Mach microkernel with FreeBSD kernel on top00:39
RST38hjeremiah: I am not sure what BSD-based Debian is, but my guess is that it is FreeBSD with userland from Debian, whatever reasons for such a strange hybride may be00:40
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jeremiah_RST38h: Mach with Apple's change on the *BSD kernel is called Xnu.00:42
jeremiah_RST38h: The *BSDs share an API to the kernel, which means that there is more in common than not.00:42
* lardman|home feels slightly perturbed at having started an argument in a roundabout way00:43
jeremiah_Which is why debian can stick debian GNU userland on top.00:43
lardman|homein any case good night chaps00:43
jeremiah_No argument. :)00:43
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jeremiah_lardman: Sweet bacon dreams.00:43
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RST38hjeremiah: Sorry, BSDs really have DIFFERENT kernels00:44
RST38hWhatever APIs they share.00:44
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RST38hOpenBSD kernel should be more similar to FreeBSD but that is because it has been forked from it00:44
luke-jr_jeremiah_: err, no00:44
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luke-jr_jeremiah_: Debian's GNU/kFreeBSD is *only* FreeBSD's kernel00:44
RST38hjeremiah: As I said, not mentioning Darwin as a Unix kernel.00:44
RST38hjeremiah: Yes, it is CMU Mach with truncated FreeBSD kernel on top. That does not change anything.00:45
penguinbaitanyone know how to adjust the file system cache in linux, is it manually adjustable?00:46
RST38hpenguinbait: I *think* it always takes all free memory00:46
RST38hok, real sleep mode now.00:47
penguinbaitI have a friend with a system with 32GB RAM, it has 30GB RAM free, and is running balls out as an NFS server.  There is a lot of disk read wait time, I assume I should be able to give some of that ram to fs cache?00:48
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jeremiah_penguinbait: Are you clustering here?00:50
jeremiah_penguinbait: What are is your friend trying to do?00:50
jeremiah_penguinbait: Because there are other solutions like load balancing, drbd, memcache, etc.00:50
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penguinbaitthanks jeremiah, but I was looking for a quick tuning option, not wanting to redesign the entire process at this point00:57
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Guest10494I have an ubuntu work station. How do i download Maemo SDK?01:08
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locutusGuest10494: RTFM01:15
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TTilushow do i make the (some kind of) text input assistant which appears on the bottom of screen when im typing, go away01:35
TTilusim using bt keyboard so i dont need it01:36
ProteousI just put tape over the bottom of my screen01:36
ProteousI find that masking tape works better then duct tape01:37
Proteousduct tape sometimes leaves gummy stuff on my screen01:37
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TTilusProteous: no, no, i want it go away, not just be out of sight01:42
TTilusProteous: could i prolly use scissors?01:42
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ProteousI belive you can turn off autocomplete altogether in the keyboard preferences01:46
ProteousI don't have my n810 on me01:46
Proteousthe comments in this thread complain about the same issue:
Proteousno fix though01:48
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rm_you|johnx_: :)03:12
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AndrewFBlackI think a few people are going to want to hang me for making minimalist theme white background04:28
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fireunhang 'im !04:32
fireunpower waster!04:32
fireungonna burn out screens too!04:33
AndrewFBlacklet them burn04:33
fireunstone the sinner!04:34
fireungonna burn it heeeyall04:34
* fireun says all this while listening to dark, dark metal. the kind that gives rots souls04:35
fireunnorweigen or swedish most likely04:38
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zakkmah, sorry04:40
fireunthats correctly spelled "frak" my good sir04:41
zakkmno i was typing the end of a password, and then irc popped up and i didnt look, so part of it appeared in this chat04:43
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AndrewFBlackahh haa I know your password now04:46
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elninja__Is it really necessary to charge the n810 completely to full before flashing?05:07
Macerfucking vbox05:14
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z4chhit is taking a lot of time and work to get my n810 running how i want, it sure is fun though :D05:24
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luke-jr_z4chh: taking me longer05:33
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z4chhi tried pulling an all nighter on a research paper...didn't happen at all....without even trying last night, i pulled an all nighter hacking my tablet05:38
luke-jr_hacking is logicakl05:40
luke-jr_research papers are not05:40
z4chhmy n800 isn't getting much love lately :\05:43
luke-jr_z4chh: want to send it to me? I can use it ;P05:44
z4chhluke-jr_, i still love her, i just got a new baby who gets all the attention atm ;p05:44
luke-jr_don't let NPS get you for neglect!05:44
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luke-jr_any ETA on kernel 2.6.30-omap1?06:18
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Guest2725_712hello someone have a good link about colors of swatch sheme and more explanation about every qgn colors?07:08
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zeevhi, did smb. tried or is tries to replace android with maemo on the HTC devices? how probable is this?08:51
StsN801if you get ubuntu booting (not chroot) mer is a good candidate for getting maemo platform on it08:52
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JaffaMorning, all09:59
timeless_mbptoday's a state holiday09:59
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StsN802not here. union however10:12
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radicStsN802: my N800 does not boot...10:25
radicStsN802: I see the screen withe the infos that are shown in the RD-Mode and after few secs it turns of and starts again...10:26
radicStsN802: I cahnged noting in the systemconfiguration and a day before it worked...10:26
Stskeepsyou could ask people in general here you know :P10:29
radicStskeeps: there all away except you ;)10:30
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radic_Stskeeps: the flasher doesn't find my N80010:53
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timeless_mbpradic_: typically you should pull the battery....10:55
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radic_I replaced the USB-Cable10:56
radic_now it works10:56
radic_damen cheap cables...10:56
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pupnik_lcuk: do you think a x41 for 260 euro or a x61 for 800 euro is the better deal?10:58
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GeneralAntillespupnik_, save it for the RX-51?11:02
pupnik_yeah right11:02
pupnik_sorry, what was i thinking11:02
pupnik_i was actually thinking 'to do art'11:03
GeneralAntillesAh, good plan.11:03
GeneralAntillesThe TouchBook could make a really nice sketch tablet.11:05
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* pupnik_ checks11:06
aquatixpupnik_: x61t with 1400x1050?11:18
aquatixi'd go for that one11:18
aquatixit's awesome11:19
pupnik_used it?11:19
aquatixnot personally11:19
pupnik_i've had one in my hands (not the tablet version)11:19
pupnik_beautiful little device11:19
aquatixbut i've used an x61 for a bit and have heard really good tales about the tablet11:19
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RST38hmoo all11:42
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RST38hThinkPad? KILL.11:43
thuxRST38h: morning11:43
RST38hheya thux11:44
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radic_If I want that I can boot from other devices is there a way to create a bootmenu?11:55
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radic_usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable12:07
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radic_I dosn't understand what's the problem...12:07
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lbtROFL :  Iceweasel spell checker knows Gobbledegook but not Firefox or Iceweasel...12:44
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genewitch1anyone know if the n800 can stream audio to a bluetooth device?12:55
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Jaffagenewitch: Using A2DP? Yes, but it's a bit fiddly. The next device will support it OOTB12:56
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radic_If I want delete some files in the initfsimage that I mounted I get the message that there are no space left13:02
radic_why I need space for deleting files?13:02
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genewitchwhat is A2DP13:11
genewitchJaffa: is that third party or what? I am debating buying a bluetooth stereo for my car13:11
lbtaudio over bluetooth13:11
genewitchwhat's fiddly about it?13:11
lbtcompatibility and quality13:12
genewitchmaybe i should invest in a cheap PC and use MPD13:12
genewitchand just remote control it with the maemo13:12
lbtapparently the next nokia device has better audio HW13:12
lbtmight make a good in-car PC :)13:12
genewitchyeah that's what i am using mine as right now13:13
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genewitchbut right now i live in an unsaturated FM band, and i am moving to Southern California13:13
genewitchso FM transmitter won't cut it13:13
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genewitchis there a howto for the bluetooth audio?13:16
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genewitchwell my computer refuses to cooperate13:40
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ssvbgenewitch: information about setting up A2DP on internet tablets:
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timeless_mbpwhere does h-a-m live these days?14:28
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Stskeepsthat's a very good question14:28
timeless_mbpwhile i'm asking questions...14:28
timeless_mbpwhy s this link present: Projectos que Precisam de Ajuda14:29
timeless_mbpi don't usually claim to speak languages other than English14:29
* timeless_mbp thinks that's Portuguese 14:29
* Stskeeps doesn't see it14:29
timeless_mbpfor me it's one tab to the left of the orange ham tab14:30
timeless_mbpclaims to be something14:30
timeless_mbpbut i claim it's empty14:30
GAN800timeless, git, although I'm thinking it's not all out in the open. :/14:31
timeless_mbpi'm shocked!14:31
GAN800Maybe it moved to at some point. Don't recall.14:32
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timeless_mbpg i t . m a e m o . o r g : : c o m i n g    s o o n14:33
timeless_mbpOH SURE14:33
timeless_mbpYou don't have permission to access /projects/ on this server.14:33
yergaHAM is in some git service in some web14:33
timeless_mbpthat's better14:33
timeless_mbpok, a quick look says "it ain't there"14:34
GAN800we really need an index for this shit14:34
* timeless_mbp sighs14:35
suihkulokkisomeone less lazy than me should open a bug to a add a redirect to the webroot14:35
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timeless_mbpGAN800: yeah right14:35
* timeless_mbp should do taht14:35
* timeless_mbp ponders14:35
GAN800Took me forever to find the bugzilla svn14:35
timeless_mbptimeless-mbp:src timeless$ sudo port install git-core14:36
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timeless_mbpGAN800: ok... where are the svn repos? :)15:02
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, garage.maemo.org15:03
timeless_mbpoh that15:03
timeless_mbpswift already clones that15:03
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* timeless_mbp waits for git clones of git.m.o to finish15:04[0:]: errno=Operation timed out15:04
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lardman_derf: finally a use for QR codes! ;)15:29
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timeless_mbpok, i can't figure out how to clone anything from that git repo16:17
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: Good to see that the paranoia hasn't stopped post-talk change16:24
pupnikdo you think mer will be resolution-independent?16:31
pupniki'd like a big chart comparing the various foss mobile OS's16:31
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sp3000timeless_mbp: what, like git clone ?17:08
timeless_mbpsp3000: git says curl says it can't handle https :)17:08
* sp3000 shudders at git.*https17:08
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sp3000well fire your curl :)17:08
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timeless_mbpi should note it seems to be a libcurl thing17:10
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timeless_mbpbecause curl itself seems to work !17:10
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Jaffapupnik: AIUI, the intent for mer is to be resolution independent17:27
Jaffa(within obvios/practical limits ;-))17:27
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timeless_mbpok, i got git-curl-https happy17:41
lbthi gnuton17:41
gnutonhei lbt17:42
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lbtyou've been busy I see17:42
lbtI've been doing a lot with Mer recently - so sorry I've not pushed the Qt stuff so much17:43
lbthowever :)17:43
lbtI'm looking at QTablet too17:43
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lbtand we will get Qt on Mer :)17:44
lbtso... fingerscrolling17:44
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lbtcan we split this into tasks and accept the core touch thing first; then look at bounce; and finally look at animating the per-item scrolling17:45
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gnutonlbt: I don't want to add new features until I don't resolve some issues in fremantle.17:49
lbtOK - but we really need to schedule this for fremantle inclusion...17:50
gnutonlbt: I agree wit you.17:50
lbt:) and whilst I think all 3 features are great; I think the priority is as above ^^^17:51
lbtif I know that we're pushing to include it17:51
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lbtthen I'm happy to work hard on it :)17:51
gnutonlbt: I will happy too to have your work in Qt, btw I can't promise you anything for fremantle.17:53
lbtI understand17:53
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lbtbut if you say it's important and you'll try to use it17:53
lbtthen that's good enough17:53
monkeyiqchinanyone know how to show a list of your POIs in maemo mapper?17:54
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monkeyiqchinah ok. browse pois and use gps position to get around the origin issue... seems to work18:00
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lbtsilly Matan18:42
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jeremiah_ping: X-Fade18:43
jeremiah_Or rather, X-Fade: ping18:43
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Mec-sympahi all19:21
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DavideHey I have a question, I have cloned to my SD card, but failed to create a swap partition.  I made a linux partition 1gb for the os, and 1 fat partition 1gb for storage.  If I use fdisk to edit the card, and partition the swap only from the sectors of the storage partition, can this damage my cloned installation?20:00
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x29aDavide: if youre not touching the system partition, no20:02
Davidex29a cool thanks20:02
x29aDavide: you are deleting the fat partition and making it into two partitions, right?20:02
Davidethat's right20:02
Davidedo I have to fdisk the whole card? or can I fdisk only that storage partition?20:03
x29ayou fdisk your device, since it contains the partition20:03
Davideall right20:03
x29afdisk /dev/sda or whatever20:03
Davidethank you20:03
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x29asda1 will be system, sda2 will be data, sda3 then swap or something20:04
luke-jr_SD cards aren't sda20:06
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keesj90% of the time sd-cards are accessed via a usb-card reader implementing scsi and hence the /dev/sdX names20:08
keesjbut sda is probably the first disk and usualy not what you want to format ..20:09
luke-jr_keesj: not in here20:10
luke-jr_in here, 90% of the time SD cards are accessed via whatever implementing /dev/mmcblkX20:10
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Davidex29a, luke-jr_, so my current FAT partition is mmcblk0p1, and my linux boot partition is mmcblk0p2.  When I run fdisk, it will ask me in sequence to assign sectors to the partitions.  this means I will have to re-assigne the linus partition? and then assign swap in the 3rd position mmcblk0p3??  won't this recreate the boot partition and ruin the current one?20:15
keesjthose are the block device of the mmc layer20:16
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Davidekeesj can you elaborate?20:16
Davidedon't wanna make a mistake I don't quite understand what I can do without ruining the previous partition20:16
keesjif you are "on" the device it's probably what luke-jr is saying20:17
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Davideyes I don't have any trouble accessing the partition, I"m just trying to figure out if re-assigning the sectors will ruin the linux partition and my OS20:17
keesjfood... bbl20:18
DavideSince it will ask me first /dev/mmcblk0p1:   then /dev/mmcblk0p2:  etc etc..20:19
Davideanyone? :(20:20
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Davideanyone know how to use fdisk?20:37
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x29aDavide: youre not using the normal fdisk but cfdisk on device or?20:42
x29aah, im not familiar with that, sorry20:42
Davidewait check this out20:42
x29amight be that if you just hit enter it will leave everything on that partition20:43
x29amanpage should say20:43
Davideso I did sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -N120:43
Davideand this edits only the first partition20:43
Davidebut then I did sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -N320:43
Davidethat edits partition 320:43
Davideso I tried to create one partition on position one and one on position 320:44
Davidebut the one on pos 3 gave an error... can partitions be created out of sequence? meaning even if the sectors are non sequential?20:44
Davidedoes that matter x29a?20:44
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AStormStskeeps, you around?21:10
AStormI'm about to install Mer on my n81021:10
AStormany missing features?21:10
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Stskeepsplenty, but really - check it out and see what's missing. sound is reachable, battery meter is reachable - but we have a problem with pulseaudio still so it's not so integrated yet21:11
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Stskeepsthere's quirks still, obviously, but we're well underway21:11
Stskeepsevening keesj21:12
keesjcan I add my sheeva-plug as build host for Mer ?21:13
AStormI could help with pulse.. unless it's already done right21:13
Stskeepsbasically we need a pulseaudio plugin speaking the DSP protocol (which is horridly simple, see osso-esd)21:14
Stskeepsas the alsa output segfaults21:14
Stskeepsbut PA plugins arenÃ't as simple as esd ones :/21:15
* lcuk waves21:15
Stskeepslo lcuk21:15
lcukhey sts, are you planning on not bringing esd over then21:16
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Stskeepslcuk: correct, following fremantle audio21:17
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Stskeepspulseaudio has ESD compat.21:17
lcukgah my laptop wont start sshd on its own21:18
lcukhow do i generically run something on bootup?21:18
AStormStskeeps, asked #pulseaudio yet?21:18
AStormsomeone might be willing21:19
AStormwell, I'd be if not for other projects...21:20
AStormthis is just a bunch of IO in DSP assembly21:21
AStormand I've made mods to pulse's ladspa sink21:21
AStormso I do understand their infra...21:21
Stskeepsactually i didn't - but this actually just /dev/ dumping, not DSP21:22
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AStormso it's like the OSS driver21:26
AStormbut easier21:26
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AStormdoes Mer initfs have a boot menu to pick the partition?21:28
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AStormgood - do you recommend using JFFS2 flash or internal mmc (no, not the card, I need that slot)21:33
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GAN800Ugh, Reggie changed the orange.21:56
GAN800Jaffa, I just don't get it.21:57
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lcukchange the jaffa22:00
* GAN800 bangs his head through the wall over the tablet school insanity.22:02
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* Proteous eats coffee cake while (AMAZINGLY!!) drinking coffee22:04
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GAN800It's like itT has a dedicated terminal in a mental institution.22:06
johnx_GAN800, the tablet school thing sounded like a good idea at first...has it taken a turn for the insane?22:09
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GAN800johnx_, krisse is totalky against having it in the wiki for some goddamn reason and now it seems the ONLY wiki she's familiar with is the itT one.22:10
* GAN800 is losing his mind to the forums.22:10
johnxit kind of makes sense as an aggregated blog22:10
* johnx should join in the fray and add totally new options for people to "discuss" :>22:10
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GAN800johnx, nothing she's proposed is impossible on a wiki22:13
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GAN800except for the crazy gatekeeoing she seems to want for some reason.22:14
johnxshe's worried about exposing new users to inaccurate information I'm sure22:14
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johnxsame as when we were battling the "just enable redpill mode" people22:15
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, all the more reason to have it on a wiki.22:15
GeneralAntillesAs anybody can change it.22:16
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GeneralAntillesWhich mostly means that people like me, X-Fade, Jaffa, etc. who check the recent changes every day will review it.22:16
GeneralAntillesHaving a gateway doesn't guarantee that the people on the other side of the gate know what they're about.22:17
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johnxI think there's a certain amount of "walled garden" thinking involved...22:18
johnxhmm, I wonder if submitting them to the wiki and having the best-of-the-best promoted to a blog style thing would make sense22:18
GeneralAntilles!!!! It's infected -developers, too! O_O22:19
GeneralAntillesjohnx, see the Mer frontpage or GSoC22:19
GeneralAntillesAny sort of index is perfectly technically feasible on the wiki.22:19
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* Jaffa sighs.22:25
GeneralAntillesWhere did we go so wrong?22:25
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* johnx prefers to frequent the more pleasant threads like tear 0.3.1 beta22:29
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* GeneralAntilles has to fight fires, unfortunately.22:29
johnxGeneralAntilles, so what are the symptoms when you lose your connection to comcast?22:29
GeneralAntillesjohnx, cable modem seems to reset itself.22:30
lcukthe porn stops coming22:30
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GeneralAntillesTakes anywhere from 10 seconds to 10 minutes to reconnect.22:30
johnxGeneralAntilles, community growing pains :)22:30
johnxalso: barn painting :D22:30
johnxGeneralAntilles, do you lose your dhcp lease on your router or not?22:32
GeneralAntillesI'm thinking so, but I haven't really payed close enough attention to tell.22:33
johnxwatch next time. I also can't get a new lease during the time it's down22:33
johnxI think this might be a semi-deliberate practice :/22:33
GeneralAntillesYou fucking know it's deliberate.22:34
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johnxbut my cable modem diagnostics are still saying it has a connection22:34
GeneralAntillesI'm canceling my account for the summer tomorrow anyway.22:34
johnxand moving to...?22:34
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GeneralAntillesBack home for the Summer.22:34
GeneralAntillesWhere Brighthouse is the greatest ISP ever. ;)22:34
johnxah, good deal then. thought you were going to dialup or something22:35
* johnx wants to give speakeasy some money22:35
GeneralAntilles20/2 with digital cable and phone for $120/mo.22:35
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GeneralAntillesevening, qgil.22:35
qgilhi there22:36
johnxhey qgil. thanks :)22:36
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qgilStskeeps lardman|lunch (interesting nick) and co22:36
qgiljohnx: that you for your work22:37
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qgilanybody here familiar with ?22:38
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* lbt listens with interest....22:39
lcukqgil, hiya, it was simon and i that put the page together.22:39
lcukive not seen anyone really with knowledge of the actual chip22:40
lcukbut obviously theres people with omap3 experience22:40
qgilI don't know the technical details myself, but apparently there is a problem between MBX (Diablo-OMAP2) and XGL (Fremantle-OMAP3)22:40
lcuki believe raster has been examing the omap3 version a lot, maybe worth asking in #beagle22:41
keesj‰kate knew about some of the problems (and those where no only open-source related)22:42
qgilah yes GeneralAntilles - and I see you talked about this:
lbtare you aware that Kate Alhola has been involved?
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GeneralAntillesqgil, well, we know we can't use Fremantle's OpenGL stuff on OMAP2, but does that  have anything to do with getting OMAP2 drivers?22:44
qgilif the existing driver for OMAP2 is mbx but the fremantle libraries are sgx, then apparently this means the current OMAP2 driver is of little use per se22:44
johnxyeah, unless we get mbx gl es libraries as well22:45
johnxbut usually people consider those gl es libraries to be part of the "driver"22:45
lcukhow incompatible is the opengl stuff tho? surely theres a subset that both support well22:45
lcuk#or is this as big a chancge as introducing things like pixelshaders etc22:45
johnxlcuk, it has to do with the fact that the kernel level driver is just acting as a thin hardware interface and most of the work is done in the the gl es library (AFAIK)22:46
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Stskeepsjohnx: yeah,, but world difference between a lib and kernel driver22:46
lcukbut thats the same on both?22:46
Stskeepsin terms of nmaintainabilty22:46
qgilanyway, I just wanted to know whether you were aware of this, now in May I will go for a second round with TI22:47
lcukqgil, i thought you were on national holiday today22:47
qgiland I am22:47
Stskeepslib can be closed src, eulaed, etc, kernel driver not too easily22:47
lcukdrink plenty of beer and keep away from swineflu22:47
* GeneralAntilles waits for sjgadsby to drag up all of the theme-discussion threads on itT.22:47
qgilactually I just came here because I say Stskeeps 's nic post in the ITt thread22:48
qgil... and now I vanish back to my long weekend  :)22:48
johnxhave fun qgil :)22:48
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* GeneralAntilles sighs at "Maemo Council".22:59
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GuySoftHey, what do you think about this? i got sugar running on maemo:
johnxthat's awesome!23:01
johnxusing a chroot? or just compiling packages?23:02
StsN800we e23:02
StsN800were discussing it on mer the other day23:02
GuySoftchroot.. but it is native on arm.. so its not that slow23:03
lcukGuySoft, AWESOME!23:03
GuySoftbut not totally usable yet..23:03
lcuk:D in no uncertain terms23:03
GuySoftah hell, i forgot to add in the end you need an external keyboard23:03
lcukthe olpc is already built and designed to be as lightweight and cpu friendly as it can be23:03
GuySoftlcuk, it still needs 256 MB23:04
johnxeven if this is just something fun to play with on current hardware, it will be serious on omap3 based stuff23:05
GuySoftlcuk, and i know that well, i have a pile of B2 laptops around here, they have 128MB and can only run older versions of sugar23:05
johnxhow well did the UI scale to fit the screen?23:05
keesjGuySoft: so does mesh networking work?23:05
GuySoftjohnx, yes.. OLPC's gui works with svgs.. so thats not a problem :)23:05
* johnx grins23:06
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GuySoftKeesj, it can work in a telepathy/jabber network, but of course you wont get the mesh , in thorey it should work if you can get a network card in.. .but i am not sure how to do that23:06
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* GuySoft has no omap 3 :(23:06
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dragornafaik you'll need to new open drivers that are being worked on in the kernel mainline23:07
johnxthere are some interesting omap3 projects. that beagleboard MID to speak of one :)23:07
johnxthe touchbook to name another23:07
infobotdragorn meant: afaik you'll need the new open drivers that are being worked on in the kernel mainline23:07
johnxGuySoft, neither do I, yet ...23:08
* GeneralAntilles does, but is too lame to use it.23:08
GuySoftGeneralAntilles, send it over :P23:08
johnxsame 128MB of RAM though on his...23:09
* keesj did get himself a nice case for his beagle at queensday23:09
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lcukkeesj, pics23:14
GuySoftwhat pics?23:15
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keesjlcuk: not yet23:22
keesjbut can't ever beat this one :p23:23
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johnxthat is made of win in so many ways23:24
* johnx wants a lego technics beagleboard laptop :D23:25
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lcukjohnx, lego makes many things better23:29
lcukthat, and bacon23:29
johnxhowever, I posit that lego does not make bacon better23:29
GeneralAntillesI miss K'Nex23:29
GuySoft... i dono.,. with the trees id say its an unstable version23:29
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I liked those too. the vector version of lego (lego is obviously pixel based)23:30
GeneralAntillesI really don't like the new itT orange.23:32
GeneralAntilleslooks like the old orange23:32
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* RST38h has no problem with orange23:34
RST38hBut the layout is atrocious23:34
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johnxRST38h, mainly font sizes?23:35
RST38hjohnx: lots of wasted space23:35
RST38hjohnx: starting with that right side column taking 1/3 of the page width for god knows what purpose23:35
RST38hjohnx: ending with margins and strange insistance on showing each message in its own bubble23:36
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* johnx thinks people should hack up some quick css and install it in their browsers23:36
RST38hjohnx: I think this has to be resolved by Reggie23:37
* Stskeeps pondders if the mbx driver post was constructive - some people might misunderstand " vendor social contract largely inspired by the open attitude by Nokia when dealing with the tablets" as sarcasm23:37
RST38hBTW, the mobile layout schemes are gone so I can't even read ITT from my phone any more =(23:37
johnxRST38h, the tablet format doesn't work right on your phone?23:37
RST38hjohnx: I have got a 352x416 display and plain GPRS23:38
RST38hjohnx: So, no, none of the current schemes work, realistically23:38
johnxI thought the tablet theme might scale that low. guess not23:38
RST38hjohnx: it loads 100kB+ of data to begin with23:39
johnxStskeeps, good question. I hope most people realize that Nokia is being comparitively open23:39
RST38hjohnx: And looks like shit after that =(23:39
johnxRST38h, reminds me of the time I got bored on a train and loaded engadget in opera mini. downloaded ~1MB23:40
Stskeepsjust hope qgil didn't read it as sarcasm ;)23:40
johnxprobably not23:40
johnxI think it's more likely to be read as sarcasm by the naturally cynical / terminally dissatisfied23:40
johnxalso, dunno if you heard, but we'll have rm_you at the hackfest to work on adv backlight for fremantle and Mer :D23:41
Stskeepsyeah i did, fantastic:)23:41
johnxplus, maybe I can get some help on control panel applets from him :)23:42
GeneralAntillesBizarre, bizarre itT.23:43
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GeneralAntillesI wonder who abused these people in their past that they have such insane trust issues.23:45
johnxNokia in some cases23:45
GeneralAntillesWhich has absolutely nothing to do with maemo.org23:46
johnxI think most still aren't getting the distinction23:46
GeneralAntillesMaybe if I explain it for the dozenth time.23:46
johnxand no, I really don't know how to get that across to them either23:46
GeneralAntillesIt's like they willfully ignore everything that's said on the subject.23:47
johnxbecause they have an opinion, and they're going to speak their mind dag'nabbit (sp?) :)23:47
GeneralAntillesThey have a conspiracy theory and they're going to rant and rave about it.23:48
johnxonce people have an explanation for something they strongly resist revising it. Witness: bigfoot, ufos, urban legends, superstitions, cargo cult solutions, windows net admins23:49
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johnxit's psychology 101 (really, that's where I got it)23:49
* RST38h thinks GA is overreacting to people who are overreacting23:50
ProteousI'm a windows net admin and I strongly endorse carrying around a small satchel of chicken bones to work your voodoo23:50
GeneralAntillesRST38h, after so many months of insanity, it starts to wear thin.23:50
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately, I'm not really in a position to ignore it.23:51
johnxProteous, no offense meant personally. :) I've just had some bad past experiences ...23:51
ProteousOh, I totaly agree with you23:51
Proteousbeing a windows admin requires fucking magic23:51
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johnxI think windows breads a certain mystical attitude towards problem solving23:51
infobotjohnx meant: I think windows breeds a certain mystical attitude towards problem solving23:52
Proteousand all sorts of wierd shit that makes no sense but you just have to belive in it23:52
johnx<- and unix breeds a dependence on tab completion23:52
GeneralAntillesIt'd be nice if we could cut down the number of words in the English language to make tab-completion more feasible.23:52
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johnxGeneralAntilles, nope, we need longer words that start unambiguously :)23:53
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johnxjeez the wimax n810s are going for a lot ...23:58
GeneralAntillesApparently people like black and orange.23:58
johnxor hold out hope for further wimax deployments23:58
GeneralAntillesWould it even work with non Xohm?23:58
johnxin Europe, probably not23:59
johnxin whatever is the future of the xohm network? probably23:59
johnxdid they ever fix the oregon network?23:59

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