| RST38h | Not just quality but the number of different visual platforms | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| wazd | Maemo will be ok with just 2, touch and stylus | 00:00 |
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| RST38h | Same Windows, for example, may operate in 16 fixed colors or 256 colors or truecolor | 00:00 |
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| RST38h | At different resolutions, from 320x240 to 1280x768 and higher | 00:00 |
| wazd | There are som nice tries on desktops | 00:01 |
| RST38h | Of course you need scalable icons in such environment | 00:01 |
| wazd | Some thought to use 3D icons | 00:01 |
| lcuk | if the engine is capabile, why not? | 00:01 |
| lcuk | capable even | 00:02 |
| wazd | Right now Win and OS X are already using some 3D effects, so I think they can invite Carmack to make an "OS3D engine" for them :) | 00:03 |
| lcuk | 3d desktop paradigm doesnt fit for most people | 00:03 |
| wazd | not 3d desktop | 00:04 |
| wazd | just rendering methods | 00:04 |
| lcuk | but using the 3d renderer efficiently for drawing is desirable | 00:04 |
| RST38h | There is alrady a Carmackian 3D window manager for Linux | 00:04 |
| RST38h | But may I ask something? | 00:04 |
| lcuk | they already do that though | 00:04 |
| RST38h | What does having 3D icons or 3D workspace actually give you in terms of productivity? | 00:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, Compiz is more showcase that actual usability) | 00:04 |
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| RST38h | And if it is mainly eyecandy, then is it worth spending resources on? | 00:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: I would imagine some infinite zooming desktop, where you can set the size of the icons you want, so you can make some icon piles :) | 00:06 |
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| RST38h | Yes, true, in fact one guy at out university worked on this kind of desktop | 00:07 |
| wazd | Very intuitive way of arrangement :) | 00:07 |
| johnx | errr...have to disagree on compiz not aiding productivity | 00:07 |
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| lcuk | wazd :) | 00:08 |
| Stslaptop | already up? jesus, you don't sleep much, johnx? :P | 00:08 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | morning(?) johnx | 00:08 |
| johnx | seeing wife off to work, then might catch some more sleep :) | 00:08 |
| lcuk | johnx, you havent been to bed yet since you vanished 4 hours ago :P | 00:08 |
| johnx | lcuk, have actually :P | 00:08 |
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| lcuk | ok, have you slept | 00:09 |
| wazd | So 3D desktops are good in the right hands :) | 00:10 |
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| wazd | But not on the mobile devices for now, cause the penalty is too big | 00:11 |
| johnx|not-awake | lcuk, I have, actually, for around 3 hours | 00:11 |
| * Stslaptop brews johnx a pot of coffee | 00:11 | |
| * lcuk adds sugar to it | 00:12 | |
| * wazd brews jonx | 00:12 | |
| johnx|not-awake | lcuk, Stslaptop, appreciated but I'm already working on that :) | 00:12 |
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| johnx|not-awake | wazd, O_o :P | 00:12 |
| wazd | xD | 00:12 |
| wazd | Best way to wake) | 00:12 |
| johnx|not-awake | hmmm...the one thing I'd want in a 3D desktop on a handheld is a nice expose-style "wall of live window previews" that I could touch | 00:13 |
| wazd | That's 2D | 00:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: The weird thing is that I am looking at this shiny 3D MacOSX desktop is all I see is 10+ years old CDE | 00:13 |
| lcuk | use the accel to show direct overlay | 00:13 |
| RST38h | Ok, the icons are shinier and they jump. Big deal. | 00:13 |
| b-man | @johnx; lol, no coffie yet? :) | 00:13 |
| johnx|not-awake | wazd, then why is it never done with 2D desktops...and I mean, never | 00:13 |
| wazd | RST38h: It's mostly 3D effects there) | 00:14 |
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| wazd | RST38h: 2D* | 00:14 |
| RST38h | What is the point in them then? | 00:14 |
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| wazd | RST38h: eye candy) | 00:14 |
| johnx|not-awake | RST38h, to sell computers | 00:14 |
| RST38h | And aside from contextual zooming, is there any point in making desktop 3D? (btw, contextual zooming is also 2D) | 00:14 |
| RST38h | johnx: And apart from that? | 00:14 |
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| johnx|not-awake | RST38h, on desktops I enjoy the 4-desktop view and wobbly windows that stick to screen edges for easier arrangement | 00:15 |
| wazd | RSAT38h:If we'll use 3d models for icons, as we discussed before, than it'd be 3D) | 00:15 |
| johnx|not-awake | and yes, the wobbly bit does provide feedback as to what it's "attached" to | 00:16 |
| wazd | Apple has no other goals than to sell hardware :) | 00:16 |
| johnx|not-awake | but with a limited-multitasking, fullscreen window manager, you're right, I don't see much point | 00:16 |
| wazd | Everything works for that :) | 00:16 |
| lcuk | john, you are obsessed with having your wobbly windows stick to the edges :P | 00:17 |
| johnx|not-awake | lcuk, it's good feedback and it helps with organization | 00:17 |
| wazd | The bad example of "how UI FX's should not be done" is an iPhone apparently | 00:18 |
| lcuk | sticky windows is good in its place, but it interupts where the direct mouse placement lives on the frame you are moving | 00:18 |
| johnx|not-awake | lcuk, hence wobbly :P | 00:18 |
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| wazd | Apple has sacrificed multitasking for jumpling pins | 00:18 |
| lcuk | so if you are holding with stylus right in centre of a square and it is pulled or pushed off centre it screws you mind - its simpler with a mouse and less noticable | 00:18 |
| wazd | damn, I'm starting to miss the keys :) | 00:19 |
| lcuk | apple has sacrificed multitasking because its not required (and also not practical to have the UI opening multiple instances and windows) | 00:19 |
| wazd | lcuk: that's what they said to you :) | 00:20 |
| lcuk | incidentally, clutter is single instance as well | 00:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Not required? From who's point of view? | 00:20 |
| wazd | lcuk: Who needs radio/stylus/multitasking?) | 00:20 |
| lcuk | from the millions of ppl with phones | 00:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | bollocks | 00:20 |
| RST38h | wazd: But what are you gonna do with 3D icons? Rotate them ? =) | 00:21 |
| johnx|not-awake | lcuk, "not required" and "too hard to do right" aren't the same thing | 00:21 |
| wazd | lcuk: you cant chat in ICQ/Jabber and surf the web | 00:21 |
| Stslaptop | heh. like when macs didn't have real multitasking.. | 00:21 |
| lcuk | :D heh good point entirely johnx | 00:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: I mean, icons are basically road signs and road signs, for all their physical reality, are not 3D | 00:21 |
| johnx|not-awake | or download something in the background, IIRC ... but that doesn't matter because you can't download files | 00:21 |
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| tank-man | can't download files with what? | 00:22 |
| * RST38h kinda remembers that Macs also did not have real memory management =) | 00:22 | |
| lcuk | does the media player carry on with music whilst you play with other apps? | 00:22 |
| wazd | iPhone doesn't have multitasking cause it can't do it | 00:22 |
| johnx|not-awake | tank-man, iphone? am I wrong? | 00:22 |
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| wazd | it's UI eats too much CPU | 00:22 |
| lcuk | its ui is driven by powervr | 00:23 |
| lcuk | the cpu is idle | 00:23 |
| lcuk | ish | 00:23 |
| wazd | Well, then OS X eaths too much CPU, okay :)) | 00:23 |
| lcuk | if it ate too much cpu the battery life would be really poor | 00:23 |
| RST38h | iPhone does have multitasking | 00:23 |
| johnx|not-awake | wazd, I'm not convinced of that. I bet they were worried about the same kind of things that cause "battery drain" posts on ITT: badly behaved apps | 00:23 |
| wazd | There are multitasking software on jailbroken iPhones | 00:23 |
| wazd | And it runs like crap | 00:24 |
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| RST38h | Apple does not allow background apps, but it is NOT the same as not having multitasking | 00:24 |
| lcuk | the core system can multitask, it just has no functionality to multitask user apps | 00:24 |
| RST38h | it is not really a technical problem but a policy problem | 00:24 |
| lcuk | bit of both RST38h | 00:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: ofcourse OSX supports and does it sometimes, but we're simplifing :) | 00:24 |
| RST38h | lcuk: you can fork() on iPhone | 00:24 |
| RST38h | lcuk: so technically it is no problem | 00:24 |
| lcuk | but you cant both be drawing to the graphics surface at the same time | 00:25 |
| lcuk | so you would need some way to handle that part | 00:25 |
| RST38h | lcuk: That is true for many, MANY platform | 00:25 |
| RST38h | Starting with Windows :) | 00:25 |
| lcuk | on linux we have x11 to handle that for us | 00:25 |
| wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKXksLEYo8 | 00:25 |
| wazd | UI demos of Pre, BTW | 00:25 |
| RST38h | Ah, lcuk, on most ARM platforms framebuffer is just an area of memory | 00:25 |
| lcuk | but this isnt most devices | 00:26 |
| lcuk | its the powervr | 00:26 |
| RST38h | So "not being able to write at the same time" is mostly hypothetical :) | 00:26 |
| lcuk | and the framework for doing it | 00:26 |
| RST38h | There ARE cases where you write may interfere with the video DMA | 00:26 |
| RST38h | For those you need some API to know where video DMA currently is | 00:27 |
| lcuk | you just need a render queue, but thats hypothetical | 00:27 |
| lcuk | since we arent apple engineers | 00:27 |
| lcuk | wow wazd :) it does look simple enough | 00:27 |
| RST38h | You do not need a render queue | 00:28 |
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| RST38h | You need windows (i.e. x,y,w,h,stride) + locking + you have to promise not to shit outside your window boundaries | 00:29 |
| wazd | "It's so simple that the only thing you can see is gorgeous wallpaper". What's the point of seeing the wallpaper?) | 00:29 |
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| RST38h | wazd: The rest of the UI is a quick iPhone knockoff but the wallpaper is different. That is the point. | 00:29 |
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| glass | hehe | 00:30 |
| glass | talking of palm 2.0: the turd? | 00:30 |
| johnx|not-awake | hey, there's a hardware keyboard. I'll give them benefit of the doubt | 00:30 |
| * RST38h would not call it the turd, but it does call to mind a certain mountain giving birth to a mouse... | 00:30 | |
| RST38h | johnx: This is no longer a distinguishing factor though. | 00:31 |
| glass | RST38h: it's the iphone 1.5y after the iphone with no promise of native apps | 00:31 |
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| RST38h | johnx: If they had e70-style fold out keyboard, I would look twice. | 00:31 |
| glass | RST38h: and apparently a sprint only thing too? not a company saver | 00:31 |
| johnx|not-awake | RST38h, I know you hated Palm from a development perspective, but I'm a big fan of what they were doing with their UI | 00:31 |
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| * RST38h does not hate Palm, Palm's UI was pretty nice | 00:32 | |
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| RST38h | The problem was *the rest* of the OS | 00:32 |
| RST38h | If they took the original Palm UI, made it into a library and moved it to Linux backend, I would be the first to applaud | 00:32 |
| RST38h | Instead, the knocked off iPhone. Again. | 00:33 |
| wazd | Ah! My task swithcer! (almost) | 00:34 |
| wazd | Goddamn( | 00:35 |
| wazd | "Throw away"(( | 00:35 |
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| Grackle | there's some lisp stuck in your chat | 00:36 |
| * b-man ponders why palm allwase stuck with a 10+ year old UI :p | 00:37 | |
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| * wazd wonders if he can sue Palm with using invented gesture :) | 00:38 | |
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| johnx|not-awake | b-man, because they did it right the first time | 00:40 |
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| * GeneralAntilles cared for Palm. | 00:41 | |
| GeneralAntilles | s/cared/never cared/ :P | 00:42 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, weren't in the market for a PDA ten years ago? | 00:44 |
| wazd | Damn, I'm really depressed... Site is useless, UI is stolen :( | 00:44 |
| Stslaptop | johnx|not-awake: i wonder how difficult it would be to take non-hildon apps, and instead of hildonizing them, full screening them instead? | 00:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Used an M105 for a while | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Friends had a lot of Clies | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | It just doesn't compare to the PDA-ness of the Newton | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it's not the mobile computer that I've always wanted (and got with Maemo). | 00:45 |
| * qwerty12_N800 preferred winmo to palm | 00:45 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stslaptop, very easy | 00:46 |
| Stslaptop | qwerty12_N800, and pondering what kind of effect it could have | 00:46 |
| johnx|not-awake | Stslaptop, we could, but most have a fullscreen option already | 00:46 |
| * b-man nods | 00:46 | |
| Stslaptop | yeah, but i'm thinking in terms of stripping away decorations and just have it fill the screen, and allow one to switch apps back with the home button | 00:47 |
| Stslaptop | kinda like how it is with games | 00:47 |
| Stslaptop | and bring more apps to the tablets that way | 00:47 |
| b-man | /m ponders on how he can improve merinstaller | 00:47 |
| * b-man ponders on how he can improve merinstaller - sorry :p | 00:48 | |
| Stslaptop | b-man: a quick going over with a spell check always improves things, and trying to find out if other N810 users have the internal/external check reversed, or if Meiz's tablet is just odd | 00:48 |
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| * timeless looks up at the words 'spell check' | 00:50 | |
| Stslaptop | spellcheck. | 00:50 |
| Stslaptop | :P | 00:50 |
| b-man | lol | 00:50 |
| Stslaptop | or whatever. | 00:50 |
| * Stslaptop 's caffeine level is getting dangerously low. | 00:50 | |
| timeless | oh, just wondering what you're checking | 00:50 |
| timeless | i'm not complaining | 00:50 |
| Stslaptop | timeless: what users will see :P | 00:50 |
| b-man | i think i need to advertise it a little more so people can test my installer ;) | 00:51 |
| Stslaptop | b-man: yeah.. i think the N810 thing needs to be investigated first | 00:51 |
| timeless | sorry, i'll brb to ask about a url | 00:51 |
| Stslaptop | b-man: so we don't kill more sd cards | 00:51 |
| b-man | hehe | 00:52 |
| Stslaptop | i think i'll put a poll up on iTT | 00:53 |
| * b-man is fusterated, caffeine makes him sleepy :p | 00:53 | |
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| b-man | Stslaptop; yah ;) | 00:54 |
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| timeless | ok, sorry | 00:57 |
| timeless | can someone point me to a url i could read? | 00:57 |
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| RST38h | Palm stock is way up from the dumpster | 01:02 |
| * timeless is still confused | 01:02 | |
| timeless | could someone give me a url that explains what's going on? :) | 01:02 |
| Stslaptop | going on in what area? :P | 01:02 |
| timeless | whatever this spell check thing is | 01:03 |
| johnx|not-awake | timeless, synopsis: b-man, Stslaptop and I talk about Mer. I and others talk about the new Palm thing from CES | 01:03 |
| timeless | what's the feature/thing under discusion | 01:03 |
| timeless | ok. i'm pretty sure i'm more interested in mer atm | 01:03 |
| timeless | is there some url that actually needs a proof reading pass? | 01:03 |
| johnx|not-awake | it's a script :) | 01:03 |
| b-man | about what? | 01:03 |
| b-man | lol | 01:03 |
| b-man | merinstaller | 01:03 |
| Stslaptop | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26094 <- poll on if slot_name lies to us consistently or not | 01:04 |
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| b-man | cool :) | 01:05 |
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| Stslaptop | at least we can point to a poll if we change around things if anyone complains we nuked their SD :P | 01:09 |
| b-man | hehe | 01:11 |
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| Stslaptop | rzr: regarding mer on 770, r2d2rogers is the guy to talk to about that | 01:18 |
| Stslaptop | since you asked about that earlier | 01:18 |
| rzr | ho really ? that's good | 01:18 |
| rzr | r2d2rogers: have you tested it ? | 01:18 |
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| tehforum | Hi | 01:19 |
| tehforum | Are there any familar faces | 01:19 |
| tehforum | GeneralAntilles | 01:19 |
| tehforum | Qwerty12 | 01:19 |
| Stslaptop | highlighting people randomly is a bit rude :) | 01:20 |
| tehforum | I was checking if xchat worked | 01:20 |
| Stslaptop | normally people say hi when they are on and recognize you :) | 01:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | XChat works | 01:20 |
| Stslaptop | hehe, okay | 01:20 |
| tehforum | Yes, thanks. | 01:20 |
| tehforum | yeah, this does look better than pidgin | 01:20 |
| johnx|not-awake | your first step into a larger world :) | 01:21 |
| tehforum | This is my first step into IRC | 01:21 |
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| * GeneralAntilles chuckles some more at the cellphone people on itT. | 01:23 | |
| tehforum | ? | 01:24 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, the cellphone people on the open pandora forums are better O_o | 01:24 |
| b-man | HI | 01:25 |
| tehforum | Hi. | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, it's a bizarre mindset to me. | 01:26 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, from a purely aesthetic standpoint I could almost see it working on an n800 with different speaker/mic placement...but the pandora is a laptop-style device | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | The whole "IT MUST BE A PHONE OS OR IT WILL DIE!!!!" thing is just weird. | 01:28 |
| johnx|not-awake | well, it probably needs a 3G modem to be viable at very least | 01:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fun stuff: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519#c27 | 01:30 |
| johnx|not-awake | and being what it is, it will be a niche product if it's not also a phone... | 01:30 |
| RST38h | PHONE PHONE WE WANT PHONE | 01:30 |
| wazd | WHO SAID PHONE?! | 01:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, well, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. | 01:31 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, he's somewhat right... | 01:31 |
| RST38h | General: I have promised to myself to abstain from commenting on 3519 | 01:31 |
| wazd | I'm slill thinking if it's convenient to use Pandora's touchscreen | 01:32 |
| RST38h | General: But off the record, let us just say that Quim is directly telling us all to shut up and stop pestering him with our "contributions" | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, pfft. | 01:32 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, other people disagree about whether it's ok for Nokia to release a tablet that doesn't immediately take over the world. Some people have some kind of vested interest in the things they like being popular. some kind of validation of their choice or something | 01:32 |
| StsN800 | i can sortof relate to the problem of that tablets need to be diverse from day 1.. if someone wants some ubuntu app in maemo, it should be easy as eating cake | 01:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, try not to be so ridiculously reactionary. | 01:32 |
| RST38h | Go work on Mer instead and let Nokia develop its commercial product professionally | 01:33 |
| RST38h | General: I'm already trying my best, really. | 01:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | and, apparently, failing if that's what you think he actually "means".\ | 01:33 |
| RST38h | General: Well, there are several possible interpretations but they are all somewhere around what I have just said =( | 01:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | If you must try to pin it somebody, pin it on Nokia, not Quim. | 01:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Because if anybody's fighting our cause in Nokia, it's him. | 01:35 |
| RST38h | General: Not blaming the messenger really | 01:35 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, yeah, but keep in mind he's arguing Nokia's case to us. nothing to blame him for of course, just something to keep in mind | 01:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | [6:32pm] <RST38h> General: But off the record, let us just say that Quim is directly telling us all to shut up and stop pestering him with our "contributions" | 01:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, it's not a one-way street. | 01:36 |
| RST38h | General: Well, the comment *is* from Quim. But he is obviously representing Nokia | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Either way, the reality is a lot less nefarious and malicious than you seem to be making it out to be. | 01:36 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, of course not. just have to keep in mind Nokia has their own interests at heart, no ours, so we have to watch out for ourselves | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, watching out for our own interests doesn't involve seeing malice in every Nokia's every action. | 01:37 |
| RST38h | General: Nothing malicious here, just a statement of the fact that outside contributions to core system components are not gonna happen | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, that's BS. | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Two patches aren't going to be shipped for a deprecated platform. | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is another thing entirely from "no patches will be accepted" | 01:38 |
| RST38h | General: The Fremantle will get deprecated in 4-6 months since its release | 01:38 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, with the current development model of Nokia, what we have in our hands is always "deprecated" | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Patches already HAVE been accepted. | 01:38 |
| RST38h | General: Which ones? | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most recently, the series of patches to h-a-m. | 01:39 |
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| RST38h | App manager? | 01:39 |
| johnx|not-awake | the categories ones? | 01:39 |
| RST38h | That is not a core system component | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | The package management isn't a platform component? | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bugzilla's layout would seem to disagree with you. | 01:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx|not-awake, that's why Nokia is working on changing their workflow. | 01:40 |
| RST38h | h-a-m is a UI wrapper for apt-get | 01:40 |
| johnx|not-awake | GeneralAntilles, I'll believe it when I see it. not before. | 01:40 |
| RST38h | It is not a core system component | 01:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles throws up his hands. | 01:40 | |
| johnx|not-awake | They ran out of "benefit of the doubt" credit with me | 01:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bleh | 01:40 |
| RST38h | Core system components are kernel, drivers, crucial daemons, x11 | 01:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Suit yourselves | 01:40 |
| * RST38h already said more than he was going to, sorry | 01:41 | |
| StsN800 | kernel? igor suggested linux-omap which is fair :P | 01:41 |
| *** johnx|not-awake is now known as johnx | 01:43 | |
| StsN800 | coffee worked? | 01:44 |
| johnx | yeah, will stay up and hack | 01:44 |
| RST38h | all right, 2:44, time to sleep | 01:44 |
| johnx | 'night RST38h | 01:45 |
| RST38h | g'night | 01:45 |
| tehforum | g'day | 01:45 |
| b-man | see ya RST38h | 01:45 |
| johnx | ok, palm pre is kind of impressing me | 01:45 |
| wazd | I have 2:28 somehow) | 01:45 |
| StsN800 | wazd, in the twilight timezone | 01:46 |
| b-man | lol | 01:46 |
| * b-man trys looking in engadget to see why people are excited about palm | 01:48 | |
| johnx | b-man, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6l0birqeig&feature=channel | 01:49 |
| * b-man goes eats dinner | 01:49 | |
| wazd | I wonder if all those modern OS'es are resolution-independent | 01:52 |
| tehforum | the maemo wiki is very interesting | 01:54 |
| johnx | wazd, os x on the desktop is getting there. I know nothing about iphone. android is pretty close to resolution independent | 01:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, it's supposedly on the roadmap for Maemo. | 01:58 |
| johnx | wonder how they plan to do that ... | 01:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, dunno, I saw it mentioned a while ago, so maybe it's not longer true. | 02:00 |
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| wazd | The only Android problem is the wallpaper :) | 02:04 |
| wazd | BTW, General, Do you know anything bout maemo.org revamping? | 02:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, the style's been finalized | 02:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Layouts are still largely under discussion | 02:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, see maemo-community and the wiki | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org | 02:06 |
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| wazd | Thanks, I deffinetely should read more( | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, subscribe to maemo-community and drop in for the monthly sprint meetings and you'll be set. | 02:07 |
| wazd | Cause I've made a mockup when the train was gone( | 02:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/ | 02:08 |
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| wazd | I'll do it | 02:08 |
| wazd | Is finalized design available or it's hidden?) | 02:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's available | 02:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Let me dig up the link | 02:12 |
| wazd | Thanks a lot! | 02:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Slightly messy HTML: http://openbossa.andrecunha.com/maemo/ | 02:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe slightly outdated proper mockup: http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:HOME510.png | 02:13 |
| wazd | Thanks, see it | 02:14 |
| wazd | What do you think bout that http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0901/13/2356c7c98e4e.png | 02:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Looks good | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | little baren | 02:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | but nice | 02:16 |
| wazd | Minimalism is the best style to start a big project) | 02:17 |
| wazd | You can always fill it with media | 02:17 |
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| wazd | Damn, you had a meeting yesterday! I totally suck ((( | 02:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo-community is the best list to keep tabs on stuff. ;) | 02:21 |
| timeless | SPAM | 02:22 |
| timeless | :) | 02:22 |
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| wazd | As for design I should say I don't like it ( And that's the worst thing :( | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, be more on top of things when the next redesign rolls around for Maemo 7. :P | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: http://maemo.org/community/council | 02:23 |
| johnx | darn, I really want an omap3 device in my hands now O_o | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, don't we all. :( | 02:25 |
| * GeneralAntilles would've preferred the Elephanta route, I think. | 02:25 | |
| johnx | you'll be happy they spent time picking the bugs out of the omap3 I think :) | 02:26 |
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| johnx | elephanta would have been a 2D UI for the rx-51 and rx-34/4x I bet... | 02:27 |
| wazd | Damn apple.com, why everybody tries to copy it :( | 02:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I'm so bored with my N800. :( | 02:27 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, that's because it mostly works for you :) | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need moar powar | 02:29 |
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| lcuk | beowulf cluster | 02:31 |
| lcuk | its the only way | 02:31 |
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| johnx | yeah, my other devices are going to suffer a serious lack of love when I have something omap3 powered in my hands I think :/ | 02:32 |
| lcuk | ive got a more powerful computer sitting infront of me than my 810 | 02:32 |
| lcuk | but i cannot touch it | 02:32 |
| wazd | I should do something | 02:33 |
| johnx | lcuk, take it out of the cardboard box? | 02:33 |
| lcuk | heh johnx, i meant my desktop, its not the power that this device has that is important. its the form factor and fact i can literally touch my code | 02:34 |
| wazd | I should do all the templates faster than Glaubert!) | 02:35 |
| johnx | lcuk, of course. I was just being snarky. :) but every omap3 device running linux that I know about has a touch screen | 02:35 |
| lcuk | i wanna go potty | 02:35 |
| lcuk | i think i just wet myself a little | 02:35 |
| lcuk | :D this is gonna be kickass | 02:35 |
| lcuk | how much do ti charge for dev boards and reference designs? | 02:36 |
| johnx | more than a beagleboard :) | 02:37 |
| wazd | ref-designs are super-expensive | 02:37 |
| lcuk | but a beagle is not a boxed unit | 02:37 |
| johnx | the beagle is pretty much TI's de-facto "community" dev board, and the design for it is open, IIRC | 02:37 |
| lcuk | i could not take that out | 02:37 |
| wazd | I wanted to buy an e-ink e-book ref to bouild my own | 02:38 |
| johnx | dev boards don't come in a box either :P | 02:38 |
| johnx | errr...s/box/case/ | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, just wait for the RX-51 or get a Pandora | 02:38 |
| lcuk | the ti reference designs are cased | 02:38 |
| johnx | huh, interesting | 02:38 |
| wazd | It was about $5000 to order | 02:38 |
| lcuk | pandora form factor doesnt appeal for now, but that might change | 02:38 |
| johnx | there's a beagle case as well of course. it's even clear plastic so you can paint it any way you want :) | 02:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I'm sure you can get your hand on a developer device. | 02:39 |
| lcuk | yeah, this x86 tablet isnt doing it for me in the same way an actual handheld does | 02:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gross | 02:40 |
| lcuk | its great in its place but i cant lug it about, im gonna have it showing my recent sketches :) | 02:41 |
| lcuk | constantly updating and floating up and around the big screen :) | 02:41 |
| lcuk | can also use it to make new ones and stuff | 02:41 |
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| * johnx is very interested that of all the newest gen of smart phone OSes, Apple's lets you get closest to the metal | 02:42 | |
| lcuk | and cos they will be synced and in harmony ill never lose another note again :) | 02:42 |
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| lcuk | johnx, different reason, android has to stay away from metal due to multiple arch | 02:42 |
| johnx | and palm learned their lesson on 1) crashy apps taking down the system and 2) getting tied to the m68k for 10+ years | 02:43 |
| lcuk | we have seen this palm os now, its very sweet | 02:43 |
| lcuk | but what we dont know is performance - if its a battery killer | 02:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why would it be? | 02:44 |
| johnx | it'll probably idle fine, but html rendering is a heavy task no matter what kind of CPU you have | 02:45 |
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| wazd | If I'm earning money for making websites, my vote counts?) | 02:46 |
| wazd | I can make another functional template along with Glaubert and then you'll compare. Or I can help Glaubert. | 02:49 |
| wazd | Damn, I've made such a great fault :( | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, well, dive in. | 02:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, Jaffa and timsamoff are the ones to be talking to. | 02:51 |
| wazd | Oh, I can write Tim, I'm already have a chat with him bout guidelines and stuff :) | 02:51 |
| wazd | I really want to help Maemo somehow, don't know actually why, but I definitely want :) | 02:52 |
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| lcuk | wazd, you already are :) your new year presentation helped focus at least my mind :) and you layout and discussions are elevating | 02:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, if only we had some more coders to implement your UI ideas. | 02:54 |
| timeless | more ui ideas? | 02:54 |
| * timeless still needs to write up two ideas | 02:54 | |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletui.wordpress.com/ | 02:55 |
| wazd | Very nice to hear it, really :) | 02:55 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, :) they will come | 02:55 |
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| wazd | That series was a real competition for me | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | For the time being we're kinda stuck waiting on Nokia. | 02:55 |
| lcuk | waiting on everyone | 02:56 |
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| lcuk | i wanted to be further on now and have enough to be able to get a few involved in bashing out this api and stuff whilst i get on with other things | 02:56 |
| wazd | The biggest surprise was an "applications menu" post cause it was a real "pass thru" post for me, just to post something that day) | 02:57 |
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| wazd | And it got such a huge resonance) | 02:57 |
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| lcuk | its an important aspect | 02:57 |
| wazd | I really wanted to make more detailed mock-ups but pre-new year week was a real bad time :( | 02:59 |
| lcuk | what im pondering is better than that :) | 03:00 |
| wazd | But I got really crazy blog statistics in december, 5000 visitors :) | 03:01 |
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| lcuk | wazd, could you do me a favour | 03:02 |
| wazd | sure | 03:02 |
| lcuk | would you make a zip of as many of your graphic primatives at expected size as possible | 03:03 |
| lcuk | the pieces of a desktop all jumbled up :) i wanna make a jigsaw | 03:04 |
| wazd | Well, I've made 800x480 mockups, I can send them | 03:05 |
| lcuk | but when you are making your mockups do you not have little cutouts of all the pieces | 03:05 |
| wazd | nope | 03:06 |
| wazd | I can make them though) | 03:06 |
| wazd | http://s42.radikal.ru/i097/0901/f9/23ee6b0e1aab.png - thats the original | 03:06 |
| lcuk | ahhh cool | 03:06 |
| lcuk | the class im trying to build at the moment is the cell class. it is the tile which every UI element sits upon. in the released liqbase this class had a feature limitation, its what im trying to fix at the moment. | 03:07 |
| lcuk | i keep collecting pieces of real life apps and programs and know the libliqbase backend now handles pretty much everything i need | 03:07 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090109_002624.lib.scr.png | 03:07 |
| wazd | You can open fullscreen it on your tablet and pretend you're having Fremantle wanabe : ))) | 03:08 |
| lcuk | i have full color ttf fonts, loadable images, a fully dynamic sketch class and the cell will bind them all together | 03:08 |
| wazd | Awesome | 03:08 |
| lcuk | wazd, liqbase and all its boxes can be styled and tasked to any purpose | 03:09 |
| wazd | the only thing I can task is my imagination( | 03:10 |
| lcuk | heh, my first task and confirmation that it has worked is to bring liqsketch to life in the new framework | 03:10 |
| lcuk | (with the improvements ive been rolling around head for the last 2 months) | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, wouldn't it be funny if Nokia's UI turned out a lot like your mockups? :D | 03:11 |
| lcuk | liqreader is similar, but that will be its own application | 03:11 |
| * GeneralAntilles waits impatiently for May. | 03:11 | |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, :) wouldnt it be even funnier if the maemo turned out a lot like wazds :) | 03:11 |
| lcuk | the community maemo distro | 03:11 |
| * lcuk waits impatiently for Mer. ;) | 03:12 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, I should finish up EIPI's interview. | 03:12 |
| wazd | I think it would be super-awesome) | 03:13 |
| wazd | It's like to be shown on the TV at 2am :) | 03:14 |
| wazd | Noone knows, but you're very proud of yourself) | 03:14 |
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| wazd | I've already pointed to the new Palm OS feature - flick up the app to close :) | 03:15 |
| lcuk | you dont flick on the screen though | 03:16 |
| wazd | That was really funny to see :) | 03:16 |
| lcuk | oh yeah, sorry | 03:16 |
| lcuk | its the other thing you dont isnt it | 03:16 |
| lcuk | have you seen the full presentation? | 03:16 |
| wazd | yep | 03:16 |
| wazd | I like the concept of the cards, pretty intuitive | 03:17 |
| lcuk | certain things stood out to me, especially "when searching for contacts it checks local first, then your exchange server" | 03:17 |
| lcuk | well its not that new a concept though | 03:17 |
| lcuk | its just a ui ontop of it, its just widget rendering | 03:18 |
| johnx | lcuk, yeah, we'll get that with tracker | 03:18 |
| wazd | yep, but I think my "quick search" (1st in series) is even faster than that | 03:18 |
| johnx | we could just compile up deskbar now but it might be too heavy for the omap2 ... | 03:19 |
| wazd | you'll see all all the stuff about what you're typing | 03:19 |
| wazd | no matter what it is | 03:19 |
| wazd | The key is not to think "we should beat iPhone" when making hardware or software | 03:20 |
| johnx | yeah | 03:20 |
| wazd | In fact they haven't made so much new for those zillion years they were planning this device | 03:20 |
| johnx | I was happy to see the palm-style menus remain intact largely | 03:21 |
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| johnx | I'm just surprised they finally managed to show something in the 11th hour | 03:21 |
| wazd | The best thing I liked in the shown UI is quicklaunch and cards | 03:21 |
| wazd | quichlaunch was pretty nice, true) | 03:22 |
| wazd | quick* | 03:22 |
| lcuk | johnx :) and it was an impressive show | 03:22 |
| johnx | using that touchscreen area that's not part of the LCD is a nice touch | 03:22 |
| lcuk | heh, didnt like the weading method | 03:23 |
| lcuk | having to do a swipe to read a bit more | 03:23 |
| wazd | Well, that's not their invention in fact | 03:23 |
| lcuk | the web browser itself looked shite on 320*480 or whatever it was | 03:23 |
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| wazd | HTC Touch used that already | 03:23 |
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| johnx | of course not, but they utilize it well :) | 03:23 |
| johnx | zaurus had it too, but it went to waste without gestures | 03:23 |
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| johnx | and anyways, palm had it first, a long time ago :) | 03:24 |
| wazd | :) | 03:24 |
| johnx | it was the grafiti area :) | 03:24 |
| wazd | Palm had everything long time ago) | 03:24 |
| johnx | then they coasted for 7 or so years | 03:24 |
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| johnx | so funny that they bought their whole treo line from another company and now they're phasing out their PDAs | 03:25 |
| wazd | To bad that graffiti is gone for now | 03:25 |
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| johnx | yeah, but it messed with my mind. totally ruined my hand writing for a while | 03:25 |
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| wazd | And no backward compatibility thanks to Access :) | 03:25 |
| johnx | ah, and no way to run garnet vm unless they port it to javascript. muahaha | 03:26 |
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| wazd | Well, I gotta go to have some sleep now. 4AM in Moscow :) | 03:27 |
| johnx | yeah, get some sleep :) | 03:27 |
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| wazd | I shoud wake at 7 actually but thats ok) | 03:28 |
| johnx | I'll stay up and crack the whip on lcuk to implement your UI ideas :) | 03:28 |
| lcuk | not me, im off to bed myself | 03:28 |
| wazd | See you all guys :) | 03:28 |
| lcuk | gnite wazd | 03:29 |
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| lcuk | me too, gnite chaps | 03:29 |
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| johnx | 'night wazd lcuk :) | 03:29 |
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| b-man | g'night lcuk! | 03:29 |
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| *** TheFatal^Away is now known as TheFatal | 04:02 | |
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| TheFatal | ╔══╗─╔═════╦══╗ | 04:06 |
| TheFatal | ║──║─║──║──║──║ | 04:06 |
| TheFatal | ║──║─║──║──║──║ | 04:06 |
| TheFatal | ║──╚═╣──║──║──╚═╗ | 04:06 |
| TheFatal | ║────║─────║────║ | 04:06 |
| TheFatal | ╚════╩═════╩════╝ | 04:07 |
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| b-man | Wahh!!! | 04:12 |
| b-man | TheFatal: LOL!!!! :D | 04:13 |
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| TheFatal | ;) | 04:14 |
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| TheFatal | can any1 tell me if "hacker edition" can be installed on n810 ?? | 04:23 |
| TheFatal | se puede poner hacker edition al n810 ? | 04:24 |
| johnx | no. only for the 770. | 04:24 |
| TheFatal | what is xulrunner ? | 04:36 |
| johnx | part of the web browser | 04:36 |
| TheFatal | so i should not delete them | 04:37 |
| TheFatal | :P | 04:37 |
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| * b-man starts thinking of ways to tweek Ubuntu Jaunty | 04:47 | |
| b-man | johnx: do you think the keyboard problem might be related to the kernel? | 04:48 |
| johnx | could you describe the "keyboard problem" again? | 04:48 |
| johnx | do any of the buttons on the n800 work? | 04:49 |
| johnx | s/work/work in X11/ | 04:49 |
| infobot | johnx meant: do any of the buttons on the n800 work in X11? | 04:49 |
| b-man | yes, the power buttun :) | 04:49 |
| b-man | but i ment the virtual keyboard | 04:49 |
| johnx | up and down on the d-pad don't work? | 04:49 |
| b-man | nope | 04:49 |
| b-man | the virtual keyboard keeps crashing my desktop | 04:50 |
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| johnx | yup. that and the d-pad not working are related. i had the same problem in debian at first | 04:50 |
| johnx | it was related to a problem with HAL in debian, but it works fine for us in mer... | 04:51 |
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| b-man | matchbox-keyboard? | 04:51 |
| johnx | I'll test it just to be sure | 04:51 |
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| b-man | johnx: eny luck? | 04:54 |
| johnx | had to boot into mer. installing now | 04:54 |
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| b-man | how about now? :) | 04:58 |
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| johnx | b-man, every time you ask me. I just wait another 5 minutes before telling you the answer :) | 05:03 |
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| b-man | lol | 05:03 |
| johnx | works fine | 05:04 |
| b-man | hmmm | 05:05 |
| b-man | does mer have it's own version of hal? | 05:05 |
| b-man | (dum question) | 05:05 |
| johnx | I'd check...but looks like the mer repository is down :/ | 05:06 |
| b-man | :( | 05:06 |
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| * b-man trys to look | 05:07 | |
| johnx | nope, it's from ubuntu | 05:07 |
| b-man | What else do you think could be causing the problem? | 05:08 |
| johnx | if I was trying to track down this same problem, I'd be looking at hal and dbus interactions...but first I'd figure out how to get a shell on it while it was booted into ubuntu | 05:09 |
| TheFatal | i have another question... this video works to format n810 ?? http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1970588/how_to_update_or_format_nokia_n810/ | 05:10 |
| johnx | yes | 05:11 |
| b-man | johnx: how could i do that without a keyboard? | 05:12 |
| johnx | b-man, telnet over usb is the easiest way. you need to be running linux on your desktop though I think | 05:12 |
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| b-man | i don't have a linux desktop atm unfortunately :( | 05:13 |
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| sisto | hi | 05:14 |
| b-man | i'm still waiting on my Dell Studio 15 :) | 05:14 |
| johnx | b-man, does your desktop have a CD drive? | 05:14 |
| b-man | yes, but it's an old clunky win98 pc | 05:14 |
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| sisto | sorry if this is a stupid question but is the n810 good for spreadsheets and text processing? | 05:15 |
| sisto | i'm planning on buying one and that's one of the things i want to do with it | 05:16 |
| bef0rd | TheFatal, http://wiki.maemo-es.org/Actualizando_el_firmware | 05:16 |
| johnx | sisto, I would say, usable, but not that great. if that's what you're buying it for you might want to look at something else | 05:17 |
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| b-man | with no internet | 05:19 |
| b-man | (i use my tablet all the time for computing for the time being) | 05:19 |
| sisto | johnx: thanks, what do you think would be a be a better option? | 05:19 |
| sisto | i saw that gnumeric and abiword are ported to maemo | 05:19 |
| johnx | sisto, abiword and gnumeric are available, but at least abiword isn't 100% stable yet | 05:20 |
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| sisto | johnx: i guess i could make due with just a text editor. that is what i had in mind really | 05:20 |
| b-man | johnx: do you think i might be able to fix this from maemo? | 05:20 |
| johnx | sisto, ah, well then yes. it's pretty nice for that. There are a couple text editors and notes apps | 05:21 |
| sisto | johnx: nice thanks | 05:21 |
| TheFatal | bef0rd: tnks | 05:23 |
| johnx | as for better devices for word processing/spreadsheets: maybe an eeePC or similar? | 05:23 |
| sisto | are there any other devices besides nokia tablets (770, n800 and n810) ???? | 05:23 |
| * b-man thinks about using his parents pc to fix the keyboard problem ;) | 05:23 | |
| sisto | (with maemo) | 05:23 |
| TrueJournals | sisto: Not with maemo... | 05:23 |
| johnx | b-man, what you need to do is be able to test things as you go. for that you need a shell | 05:24 |
| sisto | TrueJournals: are there other similar devices out there? | 05:24 |
| sisto | i mean without maemo | 05:24 |
| johnx | sisto, in a pocketable form factor? not really | 05:25 |
| sisto | the only thing that is similar that i can think of is the htc g1 | 05:25 |
| johnx | is linux one of your requirements? | 05:25 |
| TrueJournals | But... that's a phone ;-) | 05:25 |
| sisto | johnx: not really.. linux compatibility yes | 05:26 |
| TrueJournals | Most people would say that the iPod Touch is similar to the tablets... but I don't know about that... | 05:26 |
| sisto | i use a linux desktop | 05:26 |
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| b-man | johnx: could i use chroot or a local vnc for this? | 05:26 |
| sisto | i guess my only complaint to the ipod touch is that i would have to use itunes... also it lacks a real keyboard | 05:27 |
| johnx | b-man, it doesn't work like that...you need to be running ubuntu, not just messing with the files | 05:27 |
| sisto | i'm not sure about itunes though... do you always have to use it to install apps? | 05:28 |
| sisto | apple is kind of evil in that sense. they fear openness | 05:28 |
| johnx | sisto, yeah, you can't install anything apple doesn't approve of | 05:28 |
| * b-man is fusterated about his limited resources :( | 05:29 | |
| johnx | sisto, (unless you jailbreak it of course, but that seems like a pain to keep up with) | 05:29 |
| TrueJournals | sisto: Agreed, I wouldn't call the iPod touch very similar to the tablets... just throwing it out there | 05:29 |
| johnx | b-man, get creative. :) your win98 machine will run linux just fine. download an iso, burn on your parents' machine, boot on yours | 05:30 |
| x29a | live that is | 05:30 |
| johnx | yes | 05:31 |
| b-man | ok, i'll try that, when i get the chance :) | 05:31 |
| sisto | the other thing i like is the fact that it probably fits in a pocket. | 05:31 |
| sisto | i was also thinking about an eee pc but that's not very pocketable | 05:31 |
| johnx | yup, in terms of an open system with a keyboard, it's pretty much the only game in town | 05:32 |
| sisto | right now i have an I-mate jam. i've had it for 4 years now, so i was thinking of retiring it | 05:33 |
| sisto | it's going to be a sad day | 05:33 |
| sisto | :) | 05:33 |
| TrueJournals | sisto: Perhaps you might want to check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handhelds_with_WiFi_connectivity#Specific | 05:33 |
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| sisto | TrueJournals: thanks! i do like the Nokia e71 also, but it's very expensive. | 05:34 |
| sisto | and the uses are very different also | 05:35 |
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| johnx | e63 looks somewhat interesting, but I have no love for symbian | 05:35 |
| x29a | plus no linux | 05:35 |
| b-man | johnx: random question; does the Ubuntu iso come with the installer? (meaning it will do most of the dirty work for me?) :) | 05:36 |
| johnx | b-man, yeah, it's a live cd and installer. you can boot it off the cd, play around with it and install if you want | 05:36 |
| BrentDC | OMAP3 should be sweet. | 05:36 |
| johnx | b-man, how much RAM do you have? | 05:36 |
| b-man | someware between 512mb and 1-2gb - i'll check, hold on.. | 05:37 |
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| sisto | n810 with 3g would be the perfect device | 05:38 |
| johnx | sisto, that's nokia's next tablet :) sometime later this year | 05:38 |
| sisto | johnx: nice :) | 05:39 |
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| BrentDC | You may want to eek out that I-Mate for a little longer | 05:39 |
| BrentDC | :) | 05:39 |
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| b-man | jphnx: 128mb of ram - about the same as my tablet :p | 05:41 |
| b-man | edit: johnx - sorry | 05:41 |
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| johnx | eep. might want something other than ubuntu... | 05:42 |
| b-man | heh | 05:42 |
| johnx | maybe xubuntu | 05:42 |
| b-man | hmm | 05:43 |
| sisto | BrentDC: eek out? | 05:44 |
| sisto | BrentDC: sorry my english is terrible :) | 05:45 |
| * b-man thinks about swaping ram from a unused computer gathering dust in a corner >:) | 05:45 | |
| TheFatal | xD | 05:46 |
| johnx | sisto, he means "make it work for another couple months" | 05:46 |
| BrentDC | Yes, exactly | 05:47 |
| johnx | b-man, a very good idea, but xubuntu is ok with 128MB of RAM, and would be fine for troubleshooting your tablet. You might even like it better than win98 :) | 05:47 |
| BrentDC | Sorry, your english is pretty much perfect btw (except for my horrible slang) | 05:48 |
| b-man | i hate win98 :p | 05:48 |
| sisto | it's a mixed feeling, i want to get something better, but i also developed some sort of attachment to my old i-mate :) | 05:48 |
| b-man | good ridence | 05:48 |
| johnx | sisto, keep both :) | 05:48 |
| TheFatal | sorry, but u guys try to put xubuntu to n810 ? | 05:48 |
| johnx | TheFatal, no. b-man's old desktop computer :) | 05:49 |
| TheFatal | aaaa =P okok | 05:49 |
| TheFatal | ddr 1/2 | 05:49 |
| * b-man does some frankinstine work on his computer >:) | 05:49 | |
| TheFatal | xD | 05:49 |
| johnx | b-man, loot the bodies (of other old computers)! | 05:50 |
| BrentDC | but this is all to get Ubuntu working on the tablets, right? lol | 05:50 |
| sisto | is ubuntu compiled for arm? | 05:50 |
| sisto | debian is for sure | 05:51 |
| johnx | sisto, yes: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/jaunty/main/binary-armel/ | 05:51 |
| sisto | nice | 05:51 |
| TheFatal | i want archon for n810 :( | 05:52 |
| TheFatal | i need it :P | 05:52 |
| sisto | this one? http://www.archon.org/ | 05:53 |
| TheFatal | xD no ! | 05:53 |
| TheFatal | the game | 05:53 |
| johnx | the C64 game? | 05:53 |
| sisto | this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archon_(computer_game) | 05:54 |
| sisto | oh ok | 05:54 |
| TheFatal | yes ! | 05:54 |
| sisto | that one | 05:54 |
| sisto | but you can! | 05:54 |
| TheFatal | i have no idea how :S | 05:54 |
| sisto | aren't there c64 emulators for maemo available already? | 05:54 |
| sisto | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5764 | 05:55 |
| TheFatal | :DDDD a lots of thnks :P | 05:55 |
| * TheFatal go sleep | 05:57 | |
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| TheFatal | see u later | 05:57 |
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| sisto | bye | 05:58 |
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| sisto | does the n810 support 16 gb sdhc? | 06:13 |
| sisto | (micro sdhc) | 06:13 |
| b-man | i'm back | 06:14 |
| johnx | sisto, yes. any micro-sdhc card will work | 06:16 |
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| sisto | johnx: ok thanks | 06:16 |
| sisto | johnx: what do you use it for usually? | 06:16 |
| fireun | FWIW: seatbelt really helped with the stability of my 770 running 2008HE, I will be putting it on my other 770 as well. | 06:17 |
| johnx | well first off, I have an n800, so no GPS or hardware keyboard. I use it for notes, light web surfing, weather, music | 06:17 |
| johnx | sometimes I use it for video if I'll be away from home/my desktop for more than a couple days... | 06:17 |
| johnx | ah, and ebooks! it's so great for reading | 06:18 |
| sisto | johnx: nice... the ebooks idea crossed my mind, but i didn't think it would be good, but since you tried it already i guess it is :) | 06:20 |
| johnx | the one problem is finding un-DRMed ebooks | 06:20 |
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| johnx | but other than that it's a really nice screen for reading on, just have to adjust the font size to something that works for you | 06:21 |
| sisto | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/seatbelt/ -> "seatbelt prevents crashes" | 06:22 |
| sisto | lol | 06:22 |
| b-man | heh | 06:23 |
| * b-man starts randomly ripping out wires from his computer | 06:24 | |
| b-man | hehe, just kidding :D | 06:24 |
| b-man | i'm not that crazy | 06:25 |
| fireun | sisto: supposedly it does something with the way memory is allocated? | 06:25 |
| fireun | sisto: all I know is that the browser on my 770/2008HE doesnt cause it to reboot when I try to connect to the uni wifi | 06:25 |
| sisto | fireun: that's good. is that specific to the 770? | 06:26 |
| fireun | I couldnt say | 06:26 |
| fireun | since I own 2 770s, I havnt been able to justify a 800/810 | 06:27 |
| fireun | as much as I would like one. | 06:27 |
| johnx | sisto, yeah. the n8x0 is a lot more stable. partially from having more memory I'm sure | 06:27 |
| fireun | and for the money, I might as well just get an EEEPC | 06:27 |
| fireun | and run *real* linux (; | 06:28 |
| johnx | "real" linux on a 4" touchscreen is no fun :P | 06:29 |
| sisto | fireun: i like the eee 901 | 06:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, you have a link to Meiz's Mer gallery handy? | 06:29 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, one sec ... | 06:30 |
| fireun | "real" linux is something I can tweak and upgrade | 06:30 |
| fireun | nokia's releases are, more "canned" | 06:30 |
| johnx | to be fair, they got better with the n8x0 | 06:31 |
| johnx | and I'm just running ubuntu anyways :) | 06:31 |
| fireun | and I doubt my 770 will ever run a version of maemo past 2008HE | 06:31 |
| johnx | probably not, but that's starting to seem like a memory limitation :/ | 06:31 |
| fireun | I've got a compaq aero that still pisses me off every time I think about how microsoft screwed me out of ever using it past the year or two it used that OS | 06:32 |
| fireun | its got a nice screen. | 06:32 |
| fireun | if it ran linux, I'd just slap vnc on it, and call it done. | 06:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | The 770 is so far behind the OMAP2 tablets it's not funny. | 06:33 |
| sisto | johnx: can you watch youtube videos smoothly? | 06:33 |
| fireun | GeneralAntilles: but its not that old! | 06:33 |
| ShadowJK | hm, that seatbelt thing changes swappiness to 100, overcommit_memory to 2, overcommit_ratio to 40 | 06:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | fireun, but it is. | 06:33 |
| johnx | sisto, not in the browser. flash is so slow it's not really usable for video...but there is a really nice youtube viewer (2 actually) | 06:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | The OMAP1 was nearing its last days when the 770 came out. | 06:33 |
| fireun | ShadowJK: what does that mean? | 06:33 |
| sisto | johnx: that's good news | 06:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | fireun, the mobile and embedded space doesn't move like the PC space. | 06:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Your performance margins are razor thin and each generation is lightyears beyond the previous one. | 06:34 |
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| fireun | GeneralAntilles: I used to be an embedded developer, dont have to tell me. | 06:34 |
| ShadowJK | fireun, it will use swap more agressively, and it's more likely to kill programs before the tablet becomes so slow that it gets rebooted by the watchdog | 06:34 |
| johnx | it's like the earlier years of desktop PCs right now :) | 06:34 |
| fireun | ShadowJK: does that mean it will cause flash writes to increase in frequency? | 06:35 |
| johnx | the other thing of course is that all those libs from desktop linux are pretty memory hungry | 06:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | fireun, then you'll certainly understand why Nokia dropping support isn't the same thing as Ubuntu or others dropping support. | 06:35 |
| ShadowJK | fireun, yes | 06:35 |
| fireun | johnx: true. | 06:35 |
| ShadowJK | swap is on SD card anyway, so it wont brick the device if it wears out... | 06:36 |
| fireun | GeneralAntilles: we always rolled back fixes to old hardware roms | 06:36 |
| fireun | GeneralAntilles: it was just good business | 06:36 |
| sisto | johnx: do you use mytube? | 06:36 |
| fireun | ShadowJK: ah, thats what I wanted to know | 06:36 |
| johnx | sisto, I use the viewer inside canola2 | 06:37 |
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| sisto | does anyone here like to listen to podcasts? | 06:37 |
| fireun | thats so 2002 | 06:38 |
| fireun | d-: | 06:38 |
| ShadowJK | Does HE still fit in the internal flash of 770 or is it on the SD card? | 06:38 |
| x29a | johnx: is there a way to get canola out of fs-mode? | 06:38 |
| fireun | shadowjk: internal | 06:38 |
| johnx | x29a, not that I know of. why would you want that? | 06:39 |
| * b-man decided to use a huge swap partition on his hdd to keep things sane for ubuntu installer ;) | 06:39 | |
| x29a | johnx: to check my mails real quick or see what my backgroupapps are doing | 06:39 |
| johnx | x29a, hit the "home" or "swap" key | 06:40 |
| x29a | ill try that next time, thank you | 06:40 |
| johnx | fireun, you should try linux on the aero. :) saw mention of it in some mailing list from 2004 | 06:42 |
| fireun | heh | 06:42 |
| fireun | I think that was the other aero | 06:43 |
| fireun | the contura | 06:43 |
| x29a | compaq aero? | 06:43 |
| johnx | the aero 1550 with a NEC VR? | 06:43 |
| johnx | s/VR/VR MIPS | 06:43 |
| johnx | I'm staring at a defconfig for it right now :) | 06:44 |
| fireun | I think I had the 2100 | 06:44 |
| fireun | but yeah, the NEC VR sounds right | 06:44 |
| johnx | also in the config file :) | 06:44 |
| fireun | there was a linuxCE project, not quite the same thing | 06:44 |
| johnx | don't know what you'll be able to do with it though, looks like 2.4.0-test8 was about the end of the line for patches :/ | 06:45 |
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| fireun | johnx: right, its just in the collection with the newton and palmpilot | 06:46 |
| fireun | cant do anything with them either | 06:46 |
| johnx | sad, huh? | 06:46 |
| fireun | and the newton external keyboard I have is nice to the touch too | 06:46 |
| johnx | I feel the same about my zaurus 5500, but it's almost kinda supported | 06:46 |
| fireun | heh, but is it useful? | 06:47 |
| johnx | just need a new battery and another wlan card for it | 06:47 |
| johnx | well, it's not as useful as my newer zaurus and nowhere near an n800 | 06:47 |
| fireun | I wouldnt mind the aero sitting on my desktop and slideshowing pictures, or as an alarmclock or something | 06:47 |
| johnx | I used to use it for IM from the couch | 06:47 |
| x29a | i call a Compaq Aero 2160 my own! | 06:47 |
| fireun | yeah, wifi is a blessing. | 06:47 |
| johnx | not just that: wifi that doesn't drain the battery in an hour | 06:48 |
| x29a | i have a collie as well | 06:48 |
| fireun | I swear I can feel heat from my 770 when I'm streaming music tho | 06:48 |
| x29a | cmon, mention more kewl devices! | 06:48 |
| fireun | heh | 06:48 |
| fireun | I had a jornada I used as a glorified typewriter, but its screen got squished | 06:48 |
| johnx | heh...my c1000 really heats up when copying files with sftp over wlan | 06:48 |
| x29a | jornada 568! | 06:49 |
| x29a | bricked mine while doing some jtag | 06:49 |
| johnx | now the c1000 is a terribly useful CLI machine. still use it for just that | 06:49 |
| x29a | its got a harddrive, right? | 06:49 |
| johnx | that was the c3x00 | 06:49 |
| fireun | I think I had the jornada with the keyboard and CF slot | 06:50 |
| johnx | but the SD slot supports SDHC so it doesn't matter that much | 06:50 |
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| x29a | fireun: jornada 680? | 06:50 |
| johnx | ooh! updates for the collie! | 06:50 |
| x29a | johnx: openzaurus -> angström | 06:50 |
| x29a | but update for opie! | 06:51 |
| johnx | x29a, http://www.linuxtogo.org/~thesing/ | 06:51 |
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| johnx | that x11-image is brand shiney new :) | 06:51 |
| fireun | x29a: nope, it had the formfactor of one of those 7" eee | 06:51 |
| johnx | probably time to get debian on it | 06:51 |
| fireun | b4 sized | 06:52 |
| fireun | I was really sad when I found it in a box with a busted screen | 06:52 |
| fireun | it was throw in a bag portable if all I needed to do was write a paper | 06:53 |
| fireun | kept me from browsing the web while I did it too | 06:53 |
| fireun | or playing games | 06:53 |
| johnx | heh...my poor cf wireless card ishot to the touch | 06:56 |
| fireun | I've also got too many linksys wrts | 06:57 |
| fireun | not much headroom for linux there! | 06:57 |
| fireun | and yet... | 06:57 |
| johnx | runs nice though | 06:58 |
| fireun | yups | 06:58 |
| johnx | sooo much nicer to work with than a low-end cisco router too :) | 06:58 |
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| * johnx boots his collie | 06:58 | |
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| sisto | does maemo use gnome or does it replace it? | 06:58 |
| sisto | i'm not quite sure what maemo is :) | 06:59 |
| johnx | sisto, it uses parts of gnome, like gtk, but it's a different desktop environment | 06:59 |
| sisto | ok | 06:59 |
| sisto | but it uses X11 right? | 06:59 |
| b-man | yes, xomap | 06:59 |
| johnx | and many gnome apps can be run without source code changes (or made to work nicely with minimal source code changes) | 07:00 |
| sisto | does it have virtual consoles like ubuntu has? the ones you can activate with Ctrl+Alt+F1, F2, etc | 07:01 |
| ShadowJK | no | 07:01 |
| johnx | not enabled by default, but there's an x terminal of course | 07:01 |
| johnx | and you can get root access easily | 07:01 |
| sisto | but can I drop to a terminal and kill the X server? | 07:01 |
| sisto | and use it with the console only? | 07:02 |
| johnx | you can kill the x server, but the vt isn't enabled in Nokia's distro | 07:02 |
| johnx | so you'll be locked out until you reboot :) | 07:02 |
| x29a | sisto: you can login via ssh tho | 07:02 |
| sisto | so you would have to connect through ssh to use it | 07:02 |
| x29a | ... | 07:02 |
| sisto | :) | 07:03 |
| johnx | sisto, yes, or you could just use an xterm | 07:03 |
| johnx | or boot a different distro | 07:03 |
| johnx | or hack up Nokia's distro to enable a console framebuffer and run a getty | 07:03 |
| x29a | does 'hacking up' equal editing the initscripts? | 07:04 |
| johnx | and installing some kernel modules | 07:04 |
| johnx | or a new kernel | 07:04 |
| johnx | and compiling a getty :) | 07:04 |
| ShadowJK | ... and figuring out how to input all the symbols you need when you no longer have the maemo things there to help you :) | 07:05 |
| sisto | sounds challenging | 07:05 |
| johnx | it is, so just use the xterm :) | 07:05 |
| ShadowJK | fullscreen xterm (on maemo fullscreen means no window decorations) is easiest :) | 07:06 |
| sisto | yes i was just wondering... i would have no real use for it though | 07:06 |
| ShadowJK | haha | 07:06 |
| sisto | the only benefit would be having more free memory | 07:07 |
| johnx | there is that...but you lose a lot of functionality in the process | 07:07 |
| johnx | and if you're planning to run memory hungry apps from the command line you might be best suited by another distro, like angstrom or debian or ubuntu | 07:08 |
| b-man | johnx: do you think it's possible to compile a stock ubuntu kernel for the tablets? | 07:08 |
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| johnx | b-man, compile: yes. boot: no | 07:09 |
| b-man | heh | 07:09 |
| johnx | why are you interested in that? | 07:09 |
| b-man | just curious... | 07:10 |
| johnx | the "stock" ubuntu kernel is just as heavily patched for x86 machines as the "stock" Nokia kernel is patched for our machines | 07:10 |
| johnx | a vanilla kernel is more possible, and of course people are working on a linux-omap kernel | 07:11 |
| johnx | but really, a kernel is a kernel :) | 07:11 |
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| *** TheFatal is now known as TheFatal^Away | 07:11 | |
| sisto | has anyone here successfully installed another distro on their tablet? | 07:12 |
| b-man | yes, me :D | 07:12 |
| johnx | yes | 07:12 |
| johnx | debian, ubuntu, android and angstrom | 07:12 |
| b-man | Ubuntu jaunty, Debian, Android... | 07:12 |
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| sisto | nice | 07:12 |
| johnx | ubuntu and android are in active development. debian is pretty well usable, but suffers poor battery life for complicated reasons :) | 07:13 |
| sisto | did you use specific ports made for nokia? | 07:13 |
| johnx | yes :/ | 07:13 |
| johnx | Nokia's done some stuff in a non-standard way | 07:13 |
| `Mace | wow skype lite is a fucking abortion | 07:13 |
| `Mace | whomever came up with it should be lined up with the iskoot people and shot | 07:14 |
| johnx | `Mace, don't hold back. tell us how you really feel :) | 07:14 |
| `Mace | heh | 07:14 |
| `Mace | it uses your cell minutes to forward a call | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | #android | 07:14 |
| `Mace | skype sells itself as "voip" and this is NOT voip | 07:14 |
| `Mace | GeneralAntilles - they are making it for symbian phones also | 07:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | #symbian | 07:15 |
| `Mace | skype n800 ftw haha | 07:15 |
| ShadowJK | fring on symbian | 07:15 |
| LinuxCode | GeneralAntilles, haha | 07:15 |
| LinuxCode | ;-D | 07:15 |
| `Mace | ShadowJK - yeah... fring and nimbuzz work well on the n95 | 07:15 |
| `Mace | it's just a shame ;) they had the oppurtunity to open up a huge base for skype | 07:16 |
| `Mace | and wound up producing a program that is worse than iskoot | 07:16 |
| johnx | I've gone with gizmo on the n800 anyways. if skype can't be bothered to improve sound quality or implement video | 07:16 |
| LinuxCode | yeh video! | 07:16 |
| `Mace | video on an n800 sucks anyways ;) | 07:16 |
| LinuxCode | bast*** | 07:16 |
| `Mace | haha | 07:16 |
| LinuxCode | I want video!# | 07:16 |
| * b-man yawns | 07:16 | |
| b-man | good night everyone, i'm going to bed. | 07:16 |
| johnx | `Mace, eh, it's good enough for a video call | 07:17 |
| johnx | 'night b-man | 07:17 |
| `Mace | i suppose | 07:17 |
| *** b-man has quit IRC | 07:17 | |
| LinuxCode | johnx, amsn could do it quite well | 07:17 |
| `Mace | i don't think gizmo has unlimited plans tho | 07:17 |
| LinuxCode | did ya give that a whirl john ? | 07:17 |
| `Mace | i know i was looking at it a while ago and they had no unlimited local plans | 07:17 |
| LinuxCode | it even turned the led red | 07:17 |
| LinuxCode | to indicate the cam in use | 07:17 |
| ShadowJK | amusingly regular VoIP is cheaper for me than skype | 07:18 |
| LinuxCode | ShadowJK, that is to be expected | 07:18 |
| `Mace | ShadowJK - skype is great for the house | 07:18 |
| LinuxCode | more competition | 07:18 |
| `Mace | and on my n95 it was good using fring | 07:18 |
| johnx | yeah, called my parents and sister on my sister's macbook. there was some echo on their side as the macbook's mic picked up my voice and helpfully sent it back with a 2 second delay | 07:18 |
| `Mace | but on my g1 it's trash ;) | 07:18 |
| *** Pyrhos has quit IRC | 07:18 | |
| `Mace | n800 was awesome to use it also.. too bad there's no cell modem in the n800 | 07:18 |
| `Mace | i'd have ditched my phone altogether.. suppose an n900 will do the trick from what i've heard | 07:19 |
| *** Pyrhos has joined #maemo | 07:19 | |
| LinuxCode | Mace, I hope so too | 07:19 |
| LinuxCode | I put off buying a new mobile phone | 07:19 |
| fireun | iPhone, mmm | 07:19 |
| `Mace | it's supposed to have a utms modem | 07:19 |
| LinuxCode | until that is out | 07:19 |
| `Mace | so cross the fingers :) | 07:19 |
| ShadowJK | well if it has hsdpa you can run voip/skype over it all the time everywehere | 07:19 |
| `Mace | i know | 07:19 |
| LinuxCode | fireun, I wouldnt want an iphone | 07:19 |
| `Mace | you can just use a bt earpiece ;) | 07:19 |
| `Mace | it would make for a great "phone" | 07:19 |
| LinuxCode | evolution just works with gpesyncd | 07:20 |
| fireun | LinuxCode: lots of apps for the iPhone | 07:20 |
| `Mace | you would just have to pay for a pda plan from your cell carrier | 07:20 |
| LinuxCode | fireun, thats besides the point | 07:20 |
| fireun | thats all I'm talking about | 07:20 |
| `Mace | and get a "pay by the minute" voice plan that you'll never use | 07:20 |
| LinuxCode | fireun, silly appz anyway..mainly | 07:20 |
| fireun | its an awkward shape | 07:20 |
| fireun | imho | 07:20 |
| LinuxCode | a lighter, a beer glass ?!?!? | 07:20 |
| `Mace | iphone has fring too :) | 07:20 |
| * johnx has no interest in non-hackable devices | 07:20 | |
| LinuxCode | johnx, that too | 07:21 |
| `Mace | i didn't want to pay for an unlocked iphone and i really do like android a lot | 07:21 |
| `Mace | and i sure in hell didn't want att anymore | 07:21 |
| `Mace | haha | 07:21 |
| LinuxCode | the only thing I like about the iphone is that the Woz hacks his device himself | 07:21 |
| LinuxCode | to use all those external appz | 07:21 |
| LinuxCode | and proudly says so too | 07:21 |
| fireun | and people are making money making iPhone apps | 07:21 |
| `Mace | hopefully they fix a lot of things that are wrong with it.. like the bluetooth stack in android only supports an earpiece | 07:21 |
| fireun | thats a good thing too. | 07:21 |
| johnx | I make it a point to not give money to companies that are out to actively restrict what I do with their products | 07:21 |
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| fireun | but I agree, I prefer open | 07:21 |
| `Mace | no hid, h2dp, dun | 07:22 |
| `Mace | wtf? :) | 07:22 |
| `Mace | not even storage profile | 07:22 |
| LinuxCode | fireun, if we could have more maintainers... we could have the entire foss available on maemo | 07:22 |
| `Mace | android update is due out this month though so lets see what it does :) until then i can just wait on getting an n900 when it comes out | 07:22 |
| `Mace | hope the hardware doesn't suck | 07:22 |
| fireun | LinuxCode: its the standard curse, cant pay to have the apps if you want to stay open, if you close up a bit you have restrictions and too much closure | 07:23 |
| LinuxCode | MaceN800, Id like a second sd card slot | 07:23 |
| johnx | `Mace, on the n900? non-suckiness is pretty much confirmed :) | 07:23 |
| LinuxCode | fireun, I want what I have on my linux desktop | 07:23 |
| LinuxCode | I like the keybaord | 07:24 |
| LinuxCode | I hate iphones input rubbish | 07:24 |
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| LinuxCode | its cumbersome and slow | 07:24 |
| `Mace | johnx - ;) haha | 07:24 |
| fireun | LinuxCode: I do and I dont, I like uniform interfaces on small devices where screen realestate is precious and "well behaving" apps are desired most | 07:24 |
| `Mace | omap3 | 07:24 |
| `Mace | so that's a good start | 07:24 |
| johnx | fireun++ :) | 07:24 |
| johnx | desktop apps on 4" touchscreens are not worth it | 07:25 |
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| LinuxCode | johnx, agreed | 07:25 |
| LinuxCode | but if there are different interfaces integrations for it ... | 07:26 |
| johnx | I think Maemo is a good start for a non-fragmented interface for mobile linux | 07:26 |
| LinuxCode | with hildon I always thought that was the goal | 07:26 |
| `Mace | johnx - they aren't too bad when they are scaled down | 07:26 |
| `Mace | i thought quickoffice was very helpful | 07:26 |
| LinuxCode | obviously you wouldnt run openoffice on your n810 | 07:26 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 07:27 |
| `Mace | LinuxCode - i did | 07:27 |
| `Mace | it runs ;) | 07:27 |
| LinuxCode | mace lol | 07:27 |
| `Mace | prints too | 07:27 |
| LinuxCode | did it run well ? | 07:27 |
| `Mace | seriously | 07:27 |
| `Mace | i guess... kinda slow.. but got the job done and was able to print with cups | 07:27 |
| LinuxCode | hehe | 07:27 |
| `Mace | it was in pb's kde release for maemo | 07:28 |
| `Mace | cups was seperate install tho when i did it | 07:28 |
| LinuxCode | i see | 07:28 |
| `Mace | starting saturday i'm going to work on taking a look at mer and testing it out | 07:28 |
| `Mace | and android for n8x0 | 07:28 |
| johnx | I mean, I can see using something like that in a pinch, but not as a daily thing | 07:28 |
| `Mace | although i doubt it will work well without a qwerty | 07:28 |
| `Mace | johnx - yeah.. quickoffice was nice .. especially with the su8w | 07:29 |
| `Mace | i think i type faster on my su8w than a normal keyboard because the keys are so close :) | 07:29 |
| * johnx almost never uses his n800 while sitting | 07:29 | |
| `Mace | heh.. i had to type a whole term paper hung over on my n95 in quickoffice with my su8w and got a b on it.. so i can't complain :) | 07:29 |
| `Mace | they are working on androffice for android which uses openoffice standards.. but i do hope that the quickoffice devs come out with something instead | 07:30 |
| `Mace | i wouldn't mind paying for quickoffice | 07:30 |
| ShadowJK | is there quickoffice for maemo? | 07:31 |
| `Mace | no | 07:31 |
| * ShadowJK wonders what the thing included with E70 is called | 07:31 | |
| `Mace | probably quick office ;) | 07:31 |
| LinuxCode | I hope they fix the gps | 07:31 |
| `Mace | they have it for symbian.. it usually comes with a trial version but you have to pay for the ral one | 07:31 |
| LinuxCode | its getting pathetic | 07:31 |
| `Mace | i have to buy a new housing for my n95 | 07:31 |
| LinuxCode | me and my brother were driving somehwere | 07:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, out of interest, what phone are you using these days? | 07:31 |
| `Mace | got lost? :) | 07:31 |
| `Mace | haha | 07:31 |
| fireun | I wouldnt mind paying for the comprehensive quickoffice app, a basic openoffice standards based editor should be free | 07:31 |
| LinuxCode | and only by the time we almost got therre it started to pick up | 07:32 |
| `Mace | fireun - quickoffice saves in ms office formats | 07:32 |
| `Mace | which i'm guessing is the reason it costs $50 | 07:32 |
| fireun | as an option or by default? | 07:32 |
| fireun | rediculous | 07:32 |
| `Mace | not sure to tell you the truth | 07:32 |
| `Mace | i always just saved it in office 07 format when i used it | 07:33 |
| `Mace | supports docx etc | 07:33 |
| `Mace | i need to buy a new housing for my n95 | 07:33 |
| fireun | following microsoft in any activity will always be a mistake | 07:33 |
| `Mace | have scratches on mine | 07:33 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, Sony Ericsson W51S (an exclusive for KDDI Au) | 07:33 |
| `Mace | fireun - maybe.. but it is still the corperate standard office suite for about 80% of businesses | 07:34 |
| `Mace | (that haven't gone bankrupt yet) | 07:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Looks purty. | 07:34 |
| `Mace | always better to be safe than sorry ;) | 07:34 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, and it works, but the interface is ... schizophrenic | 07:34 |
| fireun | autocad is also a standard, but you take one look at solidworks and you want to toss autocad | 07:34 |
| LinuxCode | john, does that sync with wammu ? | 07:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | My contract's up in Feb and I need to find something subsidized to buy. | 07:35 |
| `Mace | fireun - yeah.. but if you do and the people you send your draft to can't open it.. then it was all just a waste of time | 07:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish I could pick up a 5800 with contract for under $200 | 07:35 |
| fireun | which is why you can save to DWG (autocad) | 07:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not much exciting in AT&T's lineup at the moment. :\ | 07:35 |
| LinuxCode | or gammu..or have you even tried ? | 07:35 |
| fireun | but its not the default, because you compromise detail | 07:35 |
| `Mace | well.. unless you own your company.. chances are you will NEED to use ms formats for docs | 07:35 |
| johnx | LinuxCode, never saw that app before. I honestly don't know, but I somewhat doubt it | 07:35 |
| LinuxCode | johnx, k | 07:36 |
| `Mace | but if you do own your own company you can build a good infrastruction on cheap software haha | 07:36 |
| LinuxCode | I want something that I could sync to evolution | 07:36 |
| `Mace | cheap/free | 07:36 |
| fireun | mace: I'm just saying it should be more about the education, than the blind standards keeping | 07:36 |
| sisto | i'm off to sleep | 07:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | I actually like the look of the Samsung Eternity a bit. . . . | 07:36 |
| LinuxCode | nn | 07:36 |
| sisto | see you | 07:36 |
| sisto | bye | 07:36 |
| `Mace | fireun - i agree | 07:36 |
| `Mace | but unfortunately it is not ;) | 07:36 |
| johnx | 'night sisto | 07:36 |
| fireun | and I wont accept that as the final answer, the only way to move forward... | 07:37 |
| `Mace | fireun - i'll accept "move forward" if obama's presidency is a success | 07:37 |
| sisto | night johnx | 07:37 |
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| `Mace | chances are though.. that in 4 years the US will be in the same sad state of affairs ;) | 07:37 |
| doc|home | worse | 07:37 |
| `Mace | simply because in the end moving forward happens in baby steps and not in giant leaps | 07:38 |
| doc|home | two official 'change' postings today: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10133425-38.html and http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/08/defense.appointments/index.html?eref=rss_politics | 07:38 |
| fireun | mace: how can an educated move be a complete failure? innaction is the only failure mode | 07:38 |
| doc|home | fireun: not if the action is worse than inaction | 07:38 |
| LinuxCode | is this #politics ? | 07:38 |
| johnx | LinuxCode++ | 07:38 |
| LinuxCode | I dont live in the US | 07:38 |
| fireun | is this #life? | 07:38 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: me neither | 07:38 |
| `Mace | haha | 07:38 |
| LinuxCode | haha | 07:38 |
| LinuxCode | that was a good one | 07:38 |
| fireun | "well geet outa mah country then" | 07:39 |
| x29a | there has been a study that goalies jump during 11m shooting alltough the probability tells them to stay in the middle, just because they feel urged to do something | 07:39 |
| `Mace | anyways... :) i would still hope that there is a broader quickoffice distribution | 07:39 |
| `Mace | for maemo.. android... symbian.. etc... quickoffice is a very good portable office suite | 07:39 |
| LinuxCode | fireun, fine...my country is better anyway | 07:39 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 07:39 |
| LinuxCode | ;-p | 07:40 |
| fireun | "even if it is, it stinks" | 07:40 |
| LinuxCode | LIES | 07:40 |
| `Mace | obama is asking for a stimulus package and tax breaks :) so the govt spends more money yet takes in less | 07:40 |
| fireun | cant be worried about a little debt | 07:40 |
| `Mace | can the fed govt declare bankruptsy ? | 07:40 |
| fireun | sure | 07:40 |
| fireun | why not? | 07:40 |
| `Mace | i don't know.. i just always wondered if they could | 07:40 |
| fireun | snot like china's gonna repo anything | 07:40 |
| `Mace | haha | 07:41 |
| LinuxCode | any country can go bankrupt | 07:41 |
| fireun | I know I've seen city govmnts declare bankruptcy | 07:41 |
| `Mace | i mean how would that work though? | 07:41 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, nothing works ... | 07:41 |
| fireun | just like any major corp | 07:41 |
| LinuxCode | thats the key | 07:41 |
| `Mace | i have also.. but i've never seen a fed govt do it | 07:41 |
| `Mace | who do they report it to? :) | 07:41 |
| `Mace | does the president walk into congress one day and ask them for a foreclosure sign for the white house? | 07:42 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, there isnt a bailiff for countries | 07:42 |
| LinuxCode | haha | 07:42 |
| LinuxCode | gets written off... | 07:42 |
| fireun | "restructuring" | 07:42 |
| LinuxCode | or that | 07:42 |
| `Mace | senators! we are going to have to sell these leather thrones you are all sitting in to break even | 07:42 |
| johnx | new management, gets controlled by the creditors, right? | 07:42 |
| `Mace | and we're going to have 1 senator for each state from now on | 07:42 |
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| * `Mace pictures the US Fed govt "cutting back" | 07:43 | |
| fireun | eh, google for goverment | 07:43 |
| `Mace | i figure the first thing to go would be welfare and social security :) | 07:43 |
| * `Mace crosses his fingers | 07:43 | |
| `Mace | they're old and poor anyways.. better to let them die off and end the burden on the rest of the country | 07:44 |
| LinuxCode | what is wrong with a social security system ? | 07:44 |
| LinuxCode | anyway...#politics | 07:44 |
| `Mace | ask me that again in about 5 years when all the baby boomers start to collect :) | 07:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | LinuxCode, everything. | 07:44 |
| `Mace | and you're 105 and finally collecting "what you put in" | 07:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not even remotely sustainable. | 07:45 |
| LinuxCode | works here | 07:45 |
| fireun | pay taxes 4 days out of the week, then send the taxes from your 5th day of work to a special project of your choise | 07:45 |
| `Mace | it sure isn't | 07:45 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: at what tax rate? | 07:45 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, not 7% | 07:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | LinuxCode, "works" | 07:45 |
| `Mace | are you in canada? | 07:45 |
| `Mace | :) | 07:45 |
| LinuxCode | but then the money you gys pay for medical insurance | 07:45 |
| LinuxCode | is pathetic | 07:45 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: think about it. If you didn't have to pay taxes don't you think you'd be better off with the savings? | 07:45 |
| `Mace | LinuxCode - which country are you in? | 07:45 |
| LinuxCode | private healthcare is an open pit where money falls into | 07:45 |
| LinuxCode | Mace UK | 07:45 |
| `Mace | oh | 07:46 |
| LinuxCode | adn I used to live In Germany | 07:46 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: they have one of the best systems in the world. The NHS is a mess. | 07:46 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, in Germany they privatised | 07:46 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: completely? | 07:46 |
| LinuxCode | and the costs went up and up and up | 07:46 |
| LinuxCode | until the German gov said..thats it... | 07:46 |
| LinuxCode | taking the piss...and rained spending in | 07:46 |
| *** sisto has quit IRC | 07:47 | |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: and when they said "that's it" what they did was reduce the incentives for competition to come in | 07:47 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, there is no nhs in germany...they have Krankenkassen | 07:47 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, they said to companies to reduce costs or die | 07:47 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: if you want effective anything you need to be prepared to pay :/ | 07:47 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, wrong | 07:47 |
| `Mace | haha | 07:47 |
| LinuxCode | private compnaies need to make more profit every year | 07:47 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: eventually competition will come in and the price will go down | 07:47 |
| LinuxCode | yeh right | 07:47 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: heaven forbid! | 07:47 |
| johnx | doc|home, be careful of the inverse though. just because you're paying more doesn't mean you're getting more | 07:47 |
| `Mace | LinuxCode - social security doesn't work here because our govt always uses it as a stop gap to other things in the budget | 07:48 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: so do computer companies | 07:48 |
| LinuxCode | how much is your lecy ? | 07:48 |
| `Mace | and never replenishes the money | 07:48 |
| fireun | what is this #economics? | 07:48 |
| fireun | d-: | 07:48 |
| LinuxCode | and how much are you paying for petrol atm ? | 07:48 |
| doc|home | yet computer prices have dropped and dropped | 07:48 |
| `Mace | so in 5 years it will be a total gaggle | 07:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Government is always less efficient than private companies. | 07:48 |
| LinuxCode | considering its 42 usd per barrel | 07:48 |
| `Mace | LinuxCode - ~$2/gallon at the pump | 07:48 |
| LinuxCode | GeneralAntilles, true | 07:48 |
| doc|home | I don't drive so have no idea | 07:48 |
| LinuxCode | but they have better bargaining power | 07:48 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: but how much of the fuel price is taxes? | 07:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | $1.54 last time I filled up. | 07:48 |
| fireun | GeneralAntilles: private companies have their shareholders needs above those of its clients | 07:49 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, then why don't we have privately run fire departments? | 07:49 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, and how much pays school fees ? | 07:49 |
| `Mace | 1.54? | 07:49 |
| `Mace | it's still $2 here in chicago :) | 07:49 |
| LinuxCode | if I was in the US I wouldnt have a degree now | 07:49 |
| fireun | GeneralAntilles: I'm not down with that in a goverment | 07:49 |
| `Mace | damn i need to move | 07:49 |
| LinuxCode | or if I did...I would have 40k in USD debt | 07:49 |
| fireun | even if WE are supposed to be the share holders, that rarely is the case | 07:49 |
| LinuxCode | min | 07:49 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: in most countries with public education there's no competition in schooling so you end up with bad schools and high prices (to the taxpayer) | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | LinuxCode, scholarships are abundant if you're even a marginally good student. | 07:50 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, are you the son of David Cameron ? | 07:50 |
| `Mace | doc|home - i refuse to send my child to public education | 07:50 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: no, I read stuff | 07:50 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 07:50 |
| `Mace | :) he is going to a school i have to pay for | 07:50 |
| doc|home | `Mace: good choice | 07:50 |
| `Mace | i know it is! | 07:50 |
| `Mace | the public school system is a joke | 07:50 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, I can tell you dont pay your own bills | 07:50 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: I do, and I have no debt | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, 99% of the time. But garbage collection is private around here. :P | 07:50 |
| `Mace | like it's my fault that poor people need to know how to read too | 07:50 |
| LinuxCode | nor do I | 07:50 |
| `Mace | why ? to make pamplets for their crack sales | 07:50 |
| `Mace | ? | 07:50 |
| LinuxCode | well student loan | 07:50 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: I haven't had anyone pay my bills in four years | 07:50 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, will you die if your garbage is not collected? | 07:50 |
| LinuxCode | but technically I could pay that | 07:50 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: and even then that was because I was in uni | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, besides, fire and police departments aren't there to save your stuff. | 07:51 |
| fireun | ok, this is too distracting, and I have homework reading to do. | 07:51 |
| * fireun is back in school for a degree | 07:51 | |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, at a certain point, yes. :D | 07:51 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, you cant compare the US to Europe | 07:51 |
| `Mace | i work hard to make sure my child can go to a good school.. why should the schools be bogged down simply because everybody must burden the cost of sending poor children to school also? | 07:51 |
| fireun | there arent jobs for smart people without degrees | 07:51 |
| LinuxCode | US has a much bigger drug, gun, crime problem imo | 07:51 |
| `Mace | LinuxCode - our country was founded on revolution ;) | 07:52 |
| doc|home | `Mace: what's more, you're paying twice for education. Once for your child's education, again via taxes which are going to education for others. | 07:52 |
| `Mace | crime is our way of life haha | 07:52 |
| LinuxCode | yeah from us.... good riddance | 07:52 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 07:52 |
| *** gentooer has quit IRC | 07:52 | |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, anyway, point being, sometimes a little inefficiency is worth it to have things there at a subsidized cost when you need them. remind me to tell you about my December at some point. :) | 07:52 |
| `Mace | doc|home - yup.. it is a HORRIBLE system | 07:52 |
| johnx | off into the real world for now | 07:52 |
| fireun | in capitalism, apathy pays | 07:52 |
| `Mace | not to mention the fact that the teachers are the worst in the world | 07:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, sometimes, but some people think that's always the right answer. | 07:52 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: the US has a drug problem only because drugs are illegal. Make them legal and you reduce the incentive for criminals to be involved. Anyone can do the business. | 07:52 |
| LinuxCode | GeneralAntilles, people abusing the system are the problem | 07:53 |
| doc|home | and I say that as a person who hates drugs | 07:53 |
| `Mace | i had about 40 or so teachers while i was attending school.. and i think there were only 2 of them that no shit.. actually cared about their job and what they were doing | 07:53 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, that applies to the UK too | 07:53 |
| LinuxCode | make dope legal | 07:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | LinuxCode, yeah, well, wave your magic wand and make them stop. | 07:53 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, of course. there is no black and white. | 07:53 |
| LinuxCode | tax it... | 07:53 |
| LinuxCode | GeneralAntilles, hahaha | 07:53 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: no, don't tax it. | 07:53 |
| LinuxCode | rofl | 07:53 |
| *** fireun has quit IRC | 07:53 | |
| * LinuxCode waves his magic wand and nothing happens | 07:53 | |
| LinuxCode | ;-[ | 07:53 |
| `Mace | we had liberal arts major teachers .. trying to teach advanced algebra | 07:53 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: when the government taxes stuff they have more money to do silly things like bail out banks | 07:53 |
| doc|home | or spend on arms | 07:54 |
| `Mace | they were HORRIBLE | 07:54 |
| `Mace | like their student loan required them to be public teachers for 2 years or something | 07:54 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, I like the idea of having a few more new shiny aircraft carriers | 07:54 |
| `Mace | before they could go get a real job for the private schools | 07:54 |
| `Mace | and actually care about teaching | 07:54 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: why? who's going to invade the UK? | 07:54 |
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| LinuxCode | doc|home, the US | 07:54 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 07:54 |
| doc|home | oh come off it | 07:54 |
| LinuxCode | j/k | 07:54 |
| doc|home | they can't even control the lands they've already invaded | 07:54 |
| doc|home | hell, they can't even control the 5 mile patch of land between the airport and the green zone | 07:55 |
| `Mace | doc|home - i don't know about that | 07:55 |
| `Mace | more people die in LA in a day than have died in 6 months in iraq | 07:55 |
| LinuxCode | well actually they dont anymore anyway | 07:55 |
| doc|home | `Mace: die how? | 07:55 |
| LinuxCode | Iraq controls it now | 07:55 |
| `Mace | oh random acts of violence i suppose for the most part | 07:56 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: meh, a change in flag means little | 07:56 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, did you get that from Fox news ? | 07:56 |
| `Mace | domestics | 07:56 |
| LinuxCode | lol | 07:56 |
| `Mace | :) no.. i just took a wild guess | 07:56 |
| `Mace | i was in iraq twice | 07:56 |
| LinuxCode | haha | 07:56 |
| `Mace | i think the south side of chicago is worse | 07:56 |
| doc|home | `Mace: that sucks and all, but it's not a direct result of your taxes :/ | 07:56 |
| `Mace | i mean.. rhamadi was pretty fucked up | 07:57 |
| `Mace | all rubble and ww2 looking while we were patrolling | 07:57 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, US forces ? | 07:57 |
| `Mace | was in the USMC | 07:57 |
| `Mace | got out in july of 07 | 07:57 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, and guess who made that rubble | 07:57 |
| `Mace | finshed my 4 | 07:57 |
| `Mace | we did | 07:57 |
| LinuxCode | ;-p | 07:57 |
| `Mace | we were blowing shit up left and right.. BUT... they did their fair share of fucking their own city up too | 07:57 |
| LinuxCode | the problem is with US forces,... that you guys dont train on Nation Building | 07:58 |
| `Mace | we sure don't | 07:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ugh, nation building. | 07:58 |
| `Mace | especially USMC | 07:58 |
| `Mace | we just go in and blow shit up and kill everybody and leave | 07:58 |
| * GeneralAntilles isn't sure why it's any of our business to be "building" nations. | 07:58 | |
| doc|home | they shouldn't be invading nations to have to build them in the first place :/ | 07:58 |
| `Mace | and let the army handle the rest haha | 07:58 |
| LinuxCode | GeneralAntilles, democracies buy goods | 07:58 |
| `Mace | doc|home - we are just trying to get a base in iraq ;) | 07:58 |
| LinuxCode | drives economies | 07:58 |
| `Mace | or two | 07:58 |
| `Mace | haha | 07:58 |
| doc|home | `Mace: oh I know :( | 07:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | LinuxCode, it's their own business to sort out how they want their country to be run, not ours. | 07:59 |
| `Mace | plus cheaper oil from our newly established puppet govt | 07:59 |
| LinuxCode | I can assure you in Zimbabwe nobody is buying anything but food atm | 07:59 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: no, democracies lead to mob rule :( | 07:59 |
| `Mace | whom we will start selling weapons to in about 4 years | 07:59 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, lol | 07:59 |
| doc|home | and no, I'm not advocating dictatorship :) | 07:59 |
| `Mace | doc|home - i would | 07:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's amazing how every loves to ignore the warnings against entangling foreign involvement. | 07:59 |
| LinuxCode | yeh..make me dictator of Britain | 07:59 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: it's true though :/ look at obama's change, it's going to bankrupt the country | 07:59 |
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| `Mace | history has shown the greatest nations to ever exist were those ruled by dictatorship that cared for its people | 07:59 |
| doc|home | I'd much rather next to no government | 07:59 |
| LinuxCode | first thing I do is restrict doc|home to 3 hours of inet a day | 07:59 |
| doc|home | `Mace: such things don't exist | 07:59 |
| `Mace | sure they do | 08:00 |
| `Mace | look at arabia :) | 08:00 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: who says you get to be dictator? | 08:00 |
| doc|home | `Mace: saudi arabia? bwahahaha | 08:00 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, I can hope for it ? | 08:00 |
| `Mace | saudis are living large off 3rd world slaves :) | 08:00 |
| LinuxCode | Id ban windows | 08:00 |
| LinuxCode | hahaha | 08:00 |
| `Mace | saudis don't work | 08:00 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: and I can shoot you in the face, Who wins? :) | 08:00 |
| doc|home | `Mace: right, which is why they'll be in trouble once the oil runs out | 08:00 |
| LinuxCode | doc|home, you are def in the US | 08:00 |
| doc|home | LinuxCode: nope :) | 08:00 |
| `Mace | doc|home - nope. they'll just use the american debt they bought | 08:01 |
| LinuxCode | are you going to shoot me with an airgun then ? | 08:01 |
| `Mace | 1/3 of the american debt is owned by the saudis :) | 08:01 |
| `Mace | i think china has a huge stake in the US debt also | 08:01 |
| doc|home | `Mace: heh, will probably be worthless by then :) | 08:01 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, arab countries are pretty rich | 08:01 |
| `Mace | doc|home - true :-\ | 08:01 |
| doc|home | `Mace: china, japan first iirc | 08:01 |
| LinuxCode | very true | 08:01 |
| doc|home | brb | 08:01 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, they had to write off big losses though | 08:01 |
| LinuxCode | ;-p | 08:01 |
| `Mace | haha | 08:02 |
| LinuxCode | no wonder they dont like democracies | 08:02 |
| `Mace | BUT YEAH.... let's hope that skype turns lite into an actual voip program! | 08:02 |
| * `Mace grins | 08:02 | |
| LinuxCode | we run companies against walls and they lose money | 08:02 |
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| LinuxCode | yeh | 08:02 |
| LinuxCode | I want video! | 08:02 |
| `Mace | blah screw video | 08:02 |
| `Mace | :) | 08:02 |
| LinuxCode | NO! | 08:02 |
| `Mace | i would rather not video chat with most people i call on the phone anyways | 08:03 |
| `Mace | phone conversations to friends and family should last all of but 5 minutes unless it's over something seriously important | 08:03 |
| `Mace | hello.. ok... all right.. ok then.. bye | 08:03 |
| LinuxCode | ;-p | 08:04 |
| LinuxCode | Mace, my brother lives abroad | 08:04 |
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| LinuxCode | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7819352.stm | 08:50 |
| LinuxCode | interesting | 08:50 |
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| wazd | Morning all :) | 09:35 |
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| solmumaha | morning | 09:40 |
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| RST38h | It's been almost 24 hours since the intoxicating and overwhelming scent of maple syrup assaulted New Yorkers' olfactory nerves again. And even though this is the sixth time the smell has struck, it's unclear where the smell is coming from! | 09:53 |
| RST38h | And good morning | 09:54 |
| mavhc | the mapler, an evil supervillian | 09:55 |
| RST38h | Batman to the rescue! | 09:56 |
| mavhc | spiderman surely, it's new york | 09:57 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile in UK: It would seem that the mythical Beast of Exmoor might have savaged its last after a body of an unidentified large animal was found washed up on a north Devon beach... Police raced to the popular surfing beach of Croyde where the carcass of an animal the size of a calf with canine teeth was spotted by a member of the public. | 10:04 |
| RST38h | Notice how old-skool and stylish UK story is: that is the European cultural heritage for you, not some maple syrup! =) | 10:05 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:28 |
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| gladiac | morning | 10:31 |
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| MaceN800 | Load average: 2.68 3.23 2.40 | 11:14 |
| MaceN800 | shit. my n800 is going to explode | 11:14 |
| aquatix | *melt* | 11:15 |
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| X-Fade | aquatix: Cold huh? :) | 11:16 |
| MaceN800 | haha | 11:16 |
| X-Fade | Or is isn't it cold there up north? :) | 11:16 |
| MaceN800 | maybe | 11:16 |
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| MaceN800 | installing kde now | 11:17 |
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| X-Fade | -12 C in the sun here ;) | 11:17 |
| MaceN800 | haha | 11:17 |
| MaceN800 | we're getting a foot of snow here | 11:18 |
| X-Fade | Only 10cm here over the last few days. But that is already a lot for NL ;) | 11:18 |
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| wazd | Goddamn, and after all that they are pissed of bout pirating | 11:20 |
| wazd | Spent 2 hours to download trial from Adobe | 11:20 |
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| soul9 | hi | 11:27 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: it's rather cold here | 11:27 |
| aquatix | -6C or something | 11:27 |
| soul9 | is it possible to port apps from maemo to anything else? | 11:27 |
| soul9 | like skype.. | 11:27 |
| aquatix | erm, there's already skype on maemo | 11:28 |
| aquatix | oh | 11:28 |
| aquatix | nm | 11:28 |
| * aquatix needs to read correctly | 11:28 | |
| soul9 | ☺ | 11:28 |
| soul9 | *from* meamo ;-) | 11:28 |
| soul9 | maemo* | 11:28 |
| aquatix | yep | 11:28 |
| Jaffa | soul9: "port" usually implies taking the source, making (some) changes and recompiling for a different target. We have no source for Skype. | 11:29 |
| soul9 | yeah | 11:29 |
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| soul9 | well yeah, but skype is in a repository | 11:29 |
| aquatix | if it has the same hardware and software stack, you can `port' it ;) | 11:29 |
| Jaffa | However, it should be possible to take Skype and run it on any other ARM/Linux system, with Gtk+, X and whatever Hildon libraries it depends on | 11:29 |
| soul9 | yeah | 11:29 |
| soul9 | ok | 11:29 |
| Jaffa | How much effort it'd be, I've no idea. And you're breaking the licensing | 11:29 |
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| soul9 | so basically, theoretically it would be possible to run skype on the freerunner, or at least it would be worth it to try.. | 11:30 |
| soul9 | ok, thanks | 11:30 |
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| wazd | Oh, hello Jaffa :) | 11:32 |
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| Jaffa | lo | 11:33 |
| wazd | General told me to ask you if I can participate in maemo.org website development | 11:33 |
| Jaffa | What do you want to do? | 11:33 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Of course you can ;) | 11:33 |
| X-Fade | In fact, is there a CSS guru out there who wants to help make the current designs compatible on all major browsers? | 11:34 |
| Jaffa | indeed | 11:34 |
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| wazd | Well, I'm very late with my proposals, but I've spent much time with figuring out the best layouts for modern website, so I came up with this. http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0901/13/2356c7c98e4e.png | 11:36 |
| wazd | I know that design is already been approved and thats totaly my fault( | 11:37 |
| X-Fade | wazd: We have a website design meeting next tuesday.. | 11:37 |
| X-Fade | wazd: But that is only to refine the current design and layouts for pages that aren't done yet. | 11:37 |
| wazd | Oh, thats great! I thought I've missed January meeting | 11:37 |
| X-Fade | wazd: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-January/002870.html | 11:38 |
| wazd | X-Fade: In fact I can code all the stuff myself to show the council some real-life layouts | 11:41 |
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| StsN802 | a bus driver taking 60s to say a full sentence with next bus stop is horrid. | 11:41 |
| wazd | X-Fade: or I can help with existing ones | 11:41 |
| StsN802 | when 'next stop X' is fine | 11:41 |
| Jaffa | wzad: also see http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-January/002872.html | 11:42 |
| wazd | Jaffa: well, the best way is to make site W3C compatible and then fix it for IE6/7 | 11:43 |
| Jaffa | wzad: Yes, I know. However, this is a call for someone to step up and *do* that ;-) | 11:44 |
| wazd | Jaffa: I'll see what I can do | 11:44 |
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| Jaffa | I'd suggest an email to that thread asking for what's been done to date | 11:45 |
| wazd | Jaffa: I'm not CSS uber-guru in fact but I've been working on that kind of stuff already | 11:45 |
| wazd | Though I really don't like current design :( | 11:47 |
| RST38h | wazd: You are going to waste time just like I have done | 11:53 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Also had a design, coded it, but nobody seemed to care really | 11:54 |
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| wazd | have you got one to see now? | 11:56 |
| RST38h | yes,a moment | 11:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://fms.komkon.org/MaemoMain.html (please note that it has all the pages mocked up at in one HTML) | 11:59 |
| wazd | well, scalable layout is much more advanced than static one | 12:01 |
| RST38h | wazd: that was the idea | 12:02 |
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| wazd | In fact "tablet sized" layout is the first mistake of Glaubert's design | 12:02 |
| RST38h | wazd: als, the idea was to make the best layout with respect to data we want to present | 12:02 |
| RST38h | wazd: for example, if we just have 2-3 announcements and 20 dev documents, it makes more sense to give more layout space to dev documents | 12:02 |
| wazd | It will look silly on FULL-HD screen | 12:02 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Unfortunately, the design chosen is being implemented at a fixed with | 12:03 |
| Jaffa | But it *is* the design chosen, and it /is/ going to be implemented | 12:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: it really does not matter now | 12:03 |
| wazd | Jaffa: yep, and that's my fault :( | 12:04 |
| RST38h | wazd: I have been present at the original IRC meeting that led to the design choice and it *alread* did not matter then | 12:04 |
| RST38h | wazd: So do not worry too much | 12:04 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: It's easier to sell architecture designs if it's accompanied by a "pretty" implementation. A fact of life, unfortunately. | 12:04 |
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| wazd | Jaffa: Why fixed width btw? 800 is too narrow for modern sxreens | 12:05 |
| wazd | It's like apple would do w240 apple.com site :) | 12:06 |
| Jaffa | wazd: I don't recall. It's not a decision I was arguing in favour of | 12:06 |
| X-Fade | I still think we need a min-width of 780, not a max width.. | 12:06 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: true | 12:06 |
| RST38h | You really do not need any fixed width. It has to scale. | 12:06 |
| RST38h | But as I said, it did not matter. | 12:06 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: the unmaximised size of the browser window should be the smallest width at which it looks good, IMHO | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Well a sane minimum is required. As you just can't scale down too much.. | 12:07 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: 320. | 12:07 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, min width is necessary to keep design in some borders, not allowing to be single coloumn | 12:07 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Well, at some width it will break of course, but it is going to be much less than 800 | 12:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: Given how many 320x240 phones are out there... :) | 12:08 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, all depends on layout you chose :) | 12:08 |
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| wazd | I'd like to do "swapping 4 coloumns layout" | 12:08 |
| wazd | 2 inner, 2 outer swapping | 12:09 |
| * RST38h wonders if CreateDIBSection returns him a wider bitmap than requested | 12:09 | |
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| RST38h | wazd: Ah, columns... | 12:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: You probably know the problem with columns? ;) | 12:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: Well, what exactly?) | 12:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: If any of your column contain much less data than the rest, you effectively waste space in those columns. Lots of space. | 12:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: So, if we are talking about a page that will be viewed on a tablet by significant number of people, you do not want columns (in fact, I would not want columns at the desktop too) | 12:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, true but today it's more positive factor | 12:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yes, you can place ads there :) | 12:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: today free space is not "wasted" space, the race of "bits of info per pixel" is over :) | 12:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: But, to prove my point, open www.slashdot.org and see how ugly and ineffective column design is | 12:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: reminder: you have got people with 4" 800x480 screens. | 12:12 |
| wazd | RST38h: look over some modern sites out there, they have lots of whitespace | 12:12 |
| *** LinuxCode is now known as LinuxCode_away | 12:12 | |
| RST38h | wazd: and that often (but not always of course) is wrong | 12:12 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's why I'd prefer to use swapping coloumns. Thats dinamic-dinamic layout :) | 12:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: Ask any newspaper worker about column padding | 12:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: How does it help? They are still columns, no? | 12:13 |
| wazd | RST38h: polygraphy and web design are totaly different, there's nothing to compare | 12:14 |
| wazd | polygraphy costs money :) | 12:14 |
| wazd | Web-page don't :) | 12:14 |
| wazd | Why books have white fields on the sides?) It's so much wasted space | 12:14 |
| wazd | Whitespace helps eyes to catch the information it needs | 12:15 |
| RST38h | Web pages do not cost money but my screen space does. | 12:15 |
| RST38h | When I am using 1600x1200 26" display, it costs less of course | 12:16 |
| X-Fade | Try reading a page full of text on a full hd screen at 10px font without whitespace.. | 12:16 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: This is not the same | 12:16 |
| X-Fade | No space wasted, but not nice ;) | 12:16 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Not talking about space inside the text | 12:16 |
| wazd | RST38h: If there was no scrollbars in the world - than it would be true) | 12:16 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Talking about inefficient page space use | 12:16 |
| wazd | RST38h: It's not inefficent | 12:17 |
| RST38h | wazd: Guess what? Your tablet effectively has no scrollbars | 12:17 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: I know what you mean, that is why I wrapped around the sidebar on the planet page for instance. | 12:17 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: There is a balance between information density, aesthetics and ease of locating categorised content | 12:17 |
| RST38h | No kinetic scrolling in MicroB and to scroll with your finger you have to do a lot of physical work ;) | 12:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: :D | 12:17 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, and having lots of empty column space violates this balance. | 12:18 |
| RST38h | So? | 12:18 |
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| gladiac | hmm | 12:18 |
| gladiac | an application which counts the scrolling meter would be fun | 12:18 |
| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/ | 12:18 |
| RST38h | Typesetters knew it for years too | 12:18 |
| wazd | Look how much whitespace there are | 12:19 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: There is no "violation" of that balance, just a number of different drivers to weigh up | 12:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: Not a lot | 12:19 |
| wazd | Again, you can't compare newspapers and webpages | 12:19 |
| wazd | They're totaly different | 12:19 |
| wazd | It's like comparing classical music and house | 12:20 |
| RST38h | Anyways, I dislike web page designs that arrange information into thin columns surrounded by unused whitespace | 12:20 |
| RST38h | If these pages achieve some balance in your mind, that is up to you. But I find them wasteful and hard to read, especially on a tablet. | 12:21 |
| alterego | How do you know what revision of the beagle board you're purchasing from digikey? Or is it always the latest revision? (C7?) | 12:22 |
| johnx | is revision C out? | 12:23 |
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| wazd | Well, Slashdot is not the best example of coloumn layout :) | 12:23 |
| alterego | No, it's probably not C ^_^ | 12:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: Exactly. | 12:24 |
| alterego | _B7_ is the latest revision I think | 12:25 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Engadget is decent though: they have got just one, thin column and it only ends after several pages | 12:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, B7 is latest | 12:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | C is scheduled for February, or March I think. | 12:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd wait. | 12:25 |
| johnx | alterego, http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Revision_C looks like end of Q1 2009 | 12:25 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, you still have plans for your beagle? | 12:26 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: I'm sure we can find enough junk for the sidebar to scroll multiple pages ;) | 12:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, plans aplenty, time and patience left to get the damn thing running again not. | 12:26 |
| johnx | always the way of thing... | 12:27 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Do you really want to present user with this junk? | 12:27 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Of course not ;) | 12:28 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Then I rest my case. | 12:28 |
| alterego | There's some good CSS layout examples on the Zen site. | 12:28 |
| alterego | http://www.csszengarden.com/ | 12:28 |
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| wazd | Btw, why no "Talk" button in main menu? | 12:29 |
| wazd | Since ITT will merge with maemo.org | 12:30 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: BTW, it appears that developers will be developing in JS/XHTML/CSS for Palm's webOS - with some talk even of (most of?) the shipping apps being written in the same framework. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20090108-palm-launches-new-handset-pre-operating-system-at-ces.html | 12:30 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Because that design is from before the announcement. | 12:30 |
| Jaffa | wazd: the design wireframe was done before that was announced | 12:30 |
| X-Fade | wazd: It will be included for sure ;) | 12:31 |
| wazd | X-Fade, Jaffa: And that's the second failure of current layout. Ok, there is some space for "talk" button but that would be last. No scalability. | 12:32 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Nice banner? | 12:32 |
| wazd | X-Fade: where? | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | Near get involved for instance? | 12:33 |
| wazd | Well, it's nice) | 12:34 |
| wazd | But I'm not sure with tactics to rush user with activities :) | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | It is still a mock up, changes can be made ;) | 12:34 |
| Macer | awesome | 12:35 |
| Jaffa | wazd: the mailing list is probably a better place for this | 12:35 |
| Macer | have kde/cups working onmy n800 again | 12:35 |
| Macer | glad i installed cups on the ssytem flash... :) | 12:36 |
| Sts|office | Macer: hehe, im just glad my work N800 battery is back and alive again | 12:36 |
| Sts|office | so i can molest that one | 12:36 |
| Macer | hey sts | 12:36 |
| Macer | well i needed to turn the n800 into something that can print | 12:37 |
| Macer | and use wifi so i can use it as an office app thing | 12:37 |
| Macer | i guess pb started to use koffice instead of openoffice | 12:38 |
| Macer | whatever works i suppose | 12:38 |
| Macer | i need to adjust the damn keyboard though... repeat rate is a little quick | 12:38 |
| Macer | hm | 12:39 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So I suspected (about WebOS) from their announcements | 12:40 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Remains to see how successful this thing is though | 12:40 |
| Macer | hn | 12:40 |
| Macer | hm... kde | 12:40 |
| johnx | RST38h, so when will see the js version of VGBA? | 12:40 |
| Macer | doessn't eem to control the bt repeat rate for my su8w | 12:40 |
| Macer | ttha kind of sucks | 12:41 |
| Macer | i remmeber theer being afix for this somewheer | 12:41 |
| RST38h | johnx: Right after Visual Basic version, sir! | 12:41 |
| Macer | hopefully i can find it | 12:41 |
| johnx | RST38h, awesome! is the vb port after or before the TIbasic port? | 12:42 |
| RST38h | johnx: TIbasic port got shut down by NEA =) | 12:44 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: how long did it take your order to arrive? | 12:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | About a week | 12:44 |
| johnx | RST38h, hmm? NEA? I know my problem was always running out of variables O_o | 12:45 |
| alterego | Cool, | 12:45 |
| alterego | Gives me enough time to setup the build environment and stuff :) | 12:45 |
| alterego | Well, and polish some of my code. | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | They were arriving at 200 a week when I ordered | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno how high the demand is now | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | I would wait for C, though. . . . | 12:46 |
| alterego | Too late now | 12:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 12:46 |
| RST38h | johnx: National Education Associations - they claimed that VGBA on TI calcs subjects them to cruel and unusual punishment n the course of work =) | 12:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it's proper USB EHCI, twice the RAM, ES3.0 (NEON bugs fixed, etc) | 12:46 |
| alterego | I guess it's first thing in the morning in the states. So hopefully it'll get processed and dispatched today :) | 12:46 |
| johnx | RST38h, subjects worse on the programmer. did you ever write in it? | 12:47 |
| RST38h | Hmm...Nokia came up with a new name for N97 - it is now a "webphone" | 12:47 |
| RST38h | johnx: I looked at it and played with it a little. | 12:47 |
| alterego | Scht .. If I knew C was _that_ much better I'd have postponed. | 12:47 |
| RST38h | johnx: Frankly, FX720 BASIC was better | 12:48 |
| johnx | RST38h, 26 global variables, A-Z. no functions, what's not to like? | 12:48 |
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| Jaffa | More details on Palm's webOS SDK (Mojo): http://developer.palm.com/ | 12:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | alterego, well, they're cheap, anyway. | 12:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | So you can always buy a second later and relegate the first to STB duty or something. :P | 12:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: None of this stuff surprises me really. | 12:49 |
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| *** lardman|gone is now known as lardman | 12:50 | |
| johnx | RST38h, ahaha. I went from teaching myself TI-Basic to learning C from an old Unix guy. Almost everyone else in that C class came from VB. They whined, I was impressed with the luxury of naming my variables. | 12:51 |
| RST38h | johnx: I started with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektronika_MK-52 | 12:51 |
| Macer | can someone direct me to the maemo patch for the bt keyboard repeat rate issue? | 12:51 |
| RST38h | johnx: Since then, few things surprise me | 12:51 |
| Macer | i know someeon came out with a patch for it | 12:51 |
| Macer | i can't find it | 12:51 |
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| johnx | mmm...thumb typing on a TI-83+ | 12:51 |
| mavhc | I was listening about the pdp8, no OR, no Load, madness | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gotta love the TIs | 12:53 |
| RST38h | TIs were pretty decent - Z80, graphical screen. I wrote a TI-84 emulator once, it is still somewhere at my disk | 12:53 |
| RST38h | Around TI89, they switched to 68000 for the CPU | 12:54 |
| t_s_o | damn it, its hard for me to say this, but i really really want palm to release a hsdpa model soon! | 12:54 |
| lardman | and started doing cool things like symbolic algebra | 12:54 |
| mavhc | I had a casio, couldn't clear pixels, could draw lines and dots | 12:55 |
| mavhc | golf game was the best I came up with | 12:55 |
| johnx | t_s_o, I'll hold out for more news about hackability, but then I'm with you... | 12:55 |
| t_s_o | johnx: indeed, but with a whole ui built around JS, how can it not be hackable? ;) | 12:56 |
| t_s_o | altho, now that i think about it, maybe it will be crackable to :S | 12:56 |
| Macer | blah | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, probably ships sometime in 2010. ;) | 12:56 |
| Macer | damnit | 12:56 |
| mavhc | sounds like mozilla xul stuff | 12:56 |
| Macer | there is apatch for this | 12:56 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, probably ships soon, but probably costs a small fortune | 12:56 |
| Macer | it is so irrittaing | 12:56 |
| Macer | i'll find it later | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that too. | 12:56 |
| johnx | I'd like to think they have really good privilege separation and sandboxing | 12:57 |
| t_s_o | anyways, i got to say that the recent webkit hack has given my N800 new life :D | 12:57 |
| johnx | the whole design totally lends itself to security | 12:57 |
| RST38h | and memory leaks | 12:58 |
| alterego | What resolution are those Picp DLPs? | 12:58 |
| alterego | ~Pico | 12:58 |
| infobot | methinks pico is a non-free text editor. Try nano as a GPL'ed alternative, or if you insist on pico, download the source for pine from non-free, build it, and install the resulting pico_something.deb | 12:58 |
| alterego | Heh | 12:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | 800x600, I think | 12:59 |
| johnx | alterego, some are 480x320. I saw a pico projector that was VGA and another at WVGA, but I don't remember if it was DLP (or are all pico projectors DLP?) | 12:59 |
| johnx | RST38h, programming that thing looks brain damaging | 12:59 |
| johnx | RST38h, I'm surprised you started on that and didn't end up a lit major | 13:00 |
| glass | johnx: i _think_ the tech is dpl like | 13:00 |
| glass | not really sure | 13:00 |
| glass | dlp | 13:00 |
| alterego | Hmm, that youtube video looks like it was higher, more like 1024x768 | 13:00 |
| alterego | I wont bother thinking about getting one unless it's native beagle resolution :) | 13:01 |
| * johnx knows nothing about the tech | 13:01 | |
| johnx | alterego, native beagle res is pretty high... | 13:01 |
| alterego | Coloured lasers and mirrors ;) | 13:01 |
| alterego | I thought the beagle could only do 1024x768 | 13:01 |
| johnx | heh...it can *play* 720p video :) | 13:02 |
| alterego | If it does higher, well, that's awesome because it was a bit limited. | 13:02 |
| johnx | it can display much higher | 13:02 |
| alterego | Oh, cool. | 13:02 |
| alterego | I'll buy a new LCD monitor then :) | 13:02 |
| alterego | Actually, I'll probably steal one from work for a while ^_^ | 13:02 |
| alterego | (and a projector) ^_^ | 13:03 |
| wazd | fullspeed genesis emu, my dream came true :) | 13:03 |
| Macer | found it | 13:04 |
| Macer | awesome | 13:04 |
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| johnx | alterego, well it should but I guess most people use 1024x768. should do 1280x1024 no problem...and I thought higher, but now I'm not sure | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, the higher resolution support seems to be mildly dependent on your LCD | 13:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | as there's a bit of fiddling with the clock rates going on, I think. | 13:06 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: okay, so the documentation was crap then? You've had it running at a higher resolution? | 13:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1280x1024 | 13:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | In Angstrom | 13:06 |
| alterego | Cool | 13:07 |
| alterego | That's just peachy :) | 13:07 |
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| lcuk | has anyone got an acme 100 tonne anvil handy? | 13:11 |
| * alterego drops a handy 100 tonne anvil on lcuk. | 13:12 | |
| RST38h | johnx: ...and you haven't even found out what makes it tick yet | 13:12 |
| lcuk | ____ ____ ____ ___ | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I have a 100 tone anvil | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's very melodious | 13:12 |
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| alterego | :) | 13:12 |
| RST38h | johnx: Once you get acquainted with the 1-bit ring data bus through which a 168-byte message with all the register contents spins in an endless loop... | 13:13 |
| lcuk | :D heh speaking of melodious :D i put in the coreesound stuff and got my nokia making sound | 13:13 |
| RST38h | johnx: That is how you find the path to the Great Tentacled One =) | 13:14 |
| lcuk | admittedly at 1am having it making the loudest most horrible random noise possible wasnt good, but it proved it worked (the neighbours told me it did) | 13:14 |
| RST38h | (and become His faithful servant) | 13:14 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, i thought you worshiped the IPU? | 13:15 |
| Sts|office | johnx: how's stuff going? | 13:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: no, I do not worship the Irish Pharmacy Union. | 13:16 |
| lcuk | no you twonk, the invisible pink unicorn (i only found out about it from some woman on jaiku | 13:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: that is a girlish deity | 13:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am sure girls have all got some erotic phantasies about its horn, too, and that disgusts me! =) | 13:18 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i thought you were girlish :P | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | Pretty cool this webkit + kinetic scrolling on current hardware.. | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A55C70zC5cw | 13:19 |
| * RST38h performs exorcism on lcuk, just in case | 13:19 | |
| RST38h | X-Fade: pleasepleaseplease bring it to stock microb =) | 13:20 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: It is for microm. | 13:20 |
| X-Fade | microb. | 13:20 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, :) nice indeed | 13:22 |
| lcuk | does it do fullscreen as nicely i wonder | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Well, I don't know. But it is a lot better than what Fennec showed us ;) | 13:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Little depressing that Nokia couldn't manage to ship what a bunch of hobbyists have | 13:23 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, undeniably so, very very impressed by how thats looking | 13:25 |
| X-Fade | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=862 | 13:25 |
| t_s_o | oh ye holy, palm will indeed go hsdpa on the pre. they just foucsed on the sprint cooperation at the presentation | 13:25 |
| X-Fade | You can download webkit-eal there. | 13:25 |
| X-Fade | Source is here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=webkit-eal | 13:26 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: irritating that I have to use --no-check-certificate to download from garage.maemo.org | 13:26 |
| Jaffa | (with wget) | 13:27 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Hmm you shouldn't have to? | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | ERROR: Certificate verification error for garage.maemo.org: unable to get local issuer certificate | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | To connect to garage.maemo.org insecurely, use `--no-check-certificate'. | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unable to establish SSL connection. | 13:28 |
| t_s_o | seems to me that nokia have all hands on fremantle right now, with only token resources focused on diablo, to take care of the biggest bugs. the rest will be left to the community to deal with... | 13:28 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, thanks for that | 13:28 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, that is wget's problem.. | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, clearly. ;) | 13:28 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: It needs to fetch another cert. | 13:28 |
| Sts|office | X-Fade: yeah, download pages point to https:// mostly :P | 13:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: http://pastebin.com/m627d362c | 13:29 |
| Sts|office | (which is bloody irritating :P) | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Which it doesn't have support for.. | 13:29 |
| t_s_o | to bad that they cant place the wifi autoconnect out of offline mode as one of those, as its annoying as hell | 13:29 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Yes, but not the stock version? In other words, I can't just install some plugin and have my current gecko-based MicroB kinetically scroll? | 13:30 |
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| Sts|office | RST38h: i think it's a drop-in plugin really | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: No, this adds webkit to your maemo browser. | 13:30 |
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| Sts|office | and you can change engine in the browser ui | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | And you can switch between them. | 13:31 |
| wazd | Whoa. 10 megs :) | 13:31 |
| t_s_o | just be glad the most recent version got rid of a equally large dep ;) | 13:32 |
| lardman | X-Fade: ah good, you can switch, that was what was stopping me | 13:34 |
| wazd | I see no kinetic scrolling though :) | 13:34 |
| RST38h | Sts: Would be cool to have without webkit even | 13:34 |
| t_s_o | hrmf, i still wonder why scrolling itt in minimal theme using webkit creates so much tearing. i thought the theme was supposed to be light weight. i get less tearing on pages with heavier graphics... | 13:34 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: not sure if I am ready for webkit | 13:34 |
| X-Fade | wazd: I needed a reboot. | 13:35 |
| wazd | I don't see any difference in rendering for now | 13:35 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, I use "WebKit Settings" to switch user agent, but no kinetic scrolling and user agent still reports Gecko & tablet browser. | 13:35 |
| RST38h | but how about features - downloading, etc? | 13:35 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Reboot. | 13:36 |
| t_s_o | downloading dont work yet, instead one get the file rendered as a "page" ;) | 13:36 |
| wazd | rebooting | 13:36 |
| X-Fade | Hmm fullscreen isn't half bad.. | 13:36 |
| X-Fade | A bit of tearing/flickering.. | 13:36 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: indeed, am doing. "WebKit Settings" should tell you do to that (or restart browserd itself) | 13:36 |
| wazd | Weheheeew) | 13:37 |
| * lardman twiddles thumbs waiting for the deb to download & install | 13:37 | |
| X-Fade | The damping of the kinetic scrolling is a bit high. But still.. | 13:37 |
| t_s_o | iirc, the deb supposedly restarts browserd, so im not sure why it needs the initial reboot after install | 13:37 |
| X-Fade | Nice ;) | 13:37 |
| t_s_o | X-Fade: tweakable in gconf | 13:37 |
| wazd | Well, it's pretty nice! | 13:38 |
| X-Fade | t_s_o: Hmm need to check that.. | 13:38 |
| Jaffa | Very nice | 13:38 |
| wazd | Even Engadget is scrolling smoothly | 13:38 |
| X-Fade | Fullscreen only works via the menu option. But then how do you get back? :) | 13:39 |
| Jaffa | Full Gmail is usable :-O | 13:39 |
| wazd | Some tearing appears but who cares)) | 13:39 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: full screen button works both ways for me | 13:39 |
| t_s_o | tap the page then try the button | 13:39 |
| t_s_o | its a "focus" issue of some sort... | 13:39 |
| X-Fade | t_s_o: Ah yeah, indeed. | 13:39 |
| X-Fade | t_s_o: Well, a few issues but still... nice. | 13:40 |
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| t_s_o | one interesting bit, if one hold down the menu button (most useful on the N800) then one can select text just by dragging | 13:41 |
| wazd | one more prove that hardware is nothing, straight arms are all :) | 13:41 |
| t_s_o | heh, could be that one need to tweak a setting in gconf for that selection thing, i dont recall what the default setting was, i just bumped into it by accident | 13:43 |
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| lardman | hmm, browser doesn't seem to ask for a connection now | 13:45 |
| t_s_o | one known bug | 13:45 |
| t_s_o | and a somewhat annoying one if one have it on automatic timeout, like i have... | 13:45 |
| t_s_o | one even have to poke the browser after the connection is back up to have it retry the connection | 13:46 |
| lardman | yep, I just noticed that | 13:46 |
| lardman | :) | 13:46 |
| lardman | did someone say how to switch between the backends? | 13:47 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Go to the settings menu.. | 13:47 |
| wazd | Webkit settings | 13:47 |
| X-Fade | In the main menu.. | 13:47 |
| lardman | ah, in control panel? | 13:47 |
| X-Fade | no | 13:47 |
| wazd | nope | 13:47 |
| X-Fade | Settings, about Extras. | 13:48 |
| wazd | Click apps menu -> settings | 13:48 |
| X-Fade | *above | 13:48 |
| lardman | menu > Tools > Settings? | 13:48 |
| Macer | blah | 13:48 |
| X-Fade | lardman: No.. Maemo menu.. | 13:48 |
| lardman | ah | 13:48 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Not inside app | 13:48 |
| Sts|office | "eBay subsidiary Skype is beta-testing a "Moblin" version of its proprietary VoIP softphone." | 13:49 |
| Sts|office | heh, must be easy after having a hildon port | 13:49 |
| X-Fade | Sts|office: Moblin dumped hildon | 13:49 |
| wazd | True Programmer will edit gconf to switch it :) | 13:49 |
| wazd | Or reflash the device :) | 13:49 |
| Sts|office | X-Fade: they did? completely? interesting | 13:49 |
| lardman | well it's much nicer, better response than microb | 13:49 |
| t_s_o | hehe, anyone for counting scorpions? ;) | 13:50 |
| X-Fade | Some redraw issues on fast scrolling heavy websites, but I think that can be fixed. | 13:50 |
| GAN800 | Give it a month.o | 13:51 |
| wazd | Just saw Kate Alhola's video bout GGadgets, very funny accent :-) | 13:52 |
| Sts|office | GAN800: the plan was for browser UI to be open sourced too wasn't it? | 13:52 |
| johnx | so moblin dropped ubuntu and maemo ... strange | 13:52 |
| X-Fade | We should give this guy some attention.. | 13:52 |
| X-Fade | He's doing a really great job. | 13:53 |
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| Sts|office | X-Fade: i think he's getting quite a lot already, with people testing/commenting/loving it etc | 13:53 |
| Sts|office | the thread is quite actiev | 13:53 |
| Macer | hm mono for android | 13:53 |
| Macer | haha | 13:53 |
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| X-Fade | Sts|office: There are people who don't follow itt, you know ;) | 13:54 |
| GAN800 | Sts|office, for Fremantle. | 13:54 |
| Macer | .net coming to a cell phone near you | 13:54 |
| X-Fade | Macer: Mono was ported to the tablets a long time ago? | 13:54 |
| GAN800 | No real discussion of Diablo's | 13:54 |
| Sts|office | GAN800: not a -huge- problem | 13:54 |
| Macer | im sure it was? | 13:54 |
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| Macer | they ported it to android | 13:55 |
| Sts|office | GAN800: if it still uses hildon and friends.. no biggie | 13:55 |
| GAN800 | weird having a percentage instead of number of objects | 13:55 |
| Macer | i want to see what a .net app looks like in android | 13:55 |
| wazd | Damn, I'm gonna suicide with that worker's music! | 13:55 |
| GAN800 | For a second I thought it was thinking there were 100 objects on every page. ;) | 13:55 |
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| wazd | My brain can't face so much cheap pop russian music((( | 13:56 |
| Sts|office | wazd: headphones :) | 13:56 |
| wazd | I have to listen to them if they screw up :) | 13:57 |
| t_s_o | im trying to get a2dp working, but when i do a2dp enable in xterm, i get a error about a missing argument or something... | 13:57 |
| GAN800 | Wow, I'm not sure if webkit crashed or what, but suddenly I'm back in MicroB. | 13:57 |
| wazd | It's better than to stand behind their backs | 13:57 |
| t_s_o | GAN800: it probably crashed | 13:57 |
| t_s_o | seems browserd autorecovers using microb | 13:58 |
| GAN800 | Text entry is unpossible | 13:58 |
| X-Fade | GAN800: No problem here ;) | 13:58 |
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| GAN800 | Can't get my finger keyboard | 13:59 |
| * johnx should poke at his a2dp script again...been a while | 13:59 | |
| GAN800 | and it's weird about clearing and appending to the entry | 13:59 |
| X-Fade | GAN800: It does the osk for me. Not the finger one.. | 13:59 |
| johnx | t_s_o, if you paste the exact error I can tell you if I have an idea | 13:59 |
| GAN800 | Also: crashes. :P | 13:59 |
| johnx | GAN800, you're looking at the wrong websites :P user error WONTFIX :) | 14:00 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, seems i had uninstalled the package | 14:00 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Just play NoM at full volume for an hour or so | 14:02 |
| t_s_o | heh, thats funny. installed it and didnt get said error. maybe i had a bad install the first time round... | 14:02 |
| RST38h | wazd: That should suffice =) | 14:02 |
| johnx | t_s_o, also, that package and what it does is kind of outdates | 14:02 |
| johnx | *outdated | 14:03 |
| t_s_o | ok | 14:04 |
| t_s_o | i was figuring i should give it a spin, unlikely that i will be using the tablet as my primary music player anyways... | 14:04 |
| johnx | now that I know how to do deb packages better I should spend about 15 minutes and get something into extras devel, but I don't even use a2dp any more | 14:06 |
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| lardman | t_s_o: I need to backport some sbc fixes so we get better sound quality | 14:06 |
| johnx | lardman, is there a nice package of that? | 14:07 |
| lardman | johnx: why not? | 14:07 |
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| johnx | kills battery life and I can actually tell the difference in sound quality. also my old a2dp headphones are uncomfortable with glasses and huge and clunky :/ | 14:07 |
| lardman | johnx: I'll backport it and re-package bluez-utils with it in; I should try submitting the patch as a bug and see if it can be pushed through as an official update | 14:07 |
| lcuk | t_s_o, less tearing on heavy pages because it takes longer to draw so giving more chance to update lcd before it tries to overwrite it | 14:07 |
| lardman | johnx: yeah, new code sounds better | 14:08 |
| johnx | (!) | 14:08 |
| johnx | you mean the pitch changes, right? | 14:08 |
| lardman | ssvb has been patching like mad, he's going for optimisations now too | 14:08 |
| lcuk | ello lardman | 14:08 |
| lardman | johnx: pitch changes are, I think, more related to cpu load, the timing gets thrown off | 14:08 |
| * RST38h wonders if he will finally be able to check if his bt headphones do a2dp =) | 14:09 | |
| wazd | ah, pitch changes! | 14:09 |
| lardman | there are some optimisations which have reduced that, at least on the DSP, presumably it will also hold true for the ARM too | 14:09 |
| wazd | It's so awesome!)) | 14:09 |
| wazd | I was laughing when I heard my player enthusiasm :) | 14:09 |
| lardman | lol, I don't know what some songs are supposed to sound like now, so used to listening to them gooiiinnnggg sslllooowwwllllyyyy | 14:09 |
| RST38h | lardman: Why would it change the pitch though? Isn't there a constant sampling frequency? | 14:10 |
| RST38h | or it simply can't keep up? | 14:10 |
| lardman | if the samples are sent too slowly the pitch drops, that's mu understanding | 14:10 |
| wazd | I had pitches both ways, slower and faster | 14:10 |
| lardman | yeah, then it catches up and plays them too fast | 14:11 |
| lardman | but with the dsp stuff it tended to be too slow all the time, until it would drop out and reset | 14:11 |
| t_s_o | lcuk: ah, that makes sense. somewhat sadly... | 14:11 |
| lardman | now it runs very nicely mind you | 14:11 |
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| lardman | lcuk: belated hello :) | 14:11 |
| RST38h | lardman: Ah, so headphones will handle underruns by scaling pitch? interesting | 14:12 |
| lardman | so it seems | 14:12 |
| lardman | well pitch scaling it just an effect of playing the samples too slowly of course | 14:13 |
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| lardman | some wierdness going on in the headphone hw | 14:13 |
| johnx | it's great too. sounds exactly like a portable casette player running out of battery power :) | 14:13 |
| Sts|office | hmm, does anyone know a way to make the kernel boot the rootfs instead of the initfs? like, through flasher | 14:13 |
| lardman | johnx: lol, yeah | 14:13 |
| lardman | johnx: anyway, the faster code is far better, and the fixed code sound better too, not clipped | 14:14 |
| johnx | guess I should try and get a better package out then. probably not tonight, but "soon" (tm) | 14:15 |
| lardman | what's wrong with the existing one? | 14:15 |
| johnx | that config file is scary | 14:15 |
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| lardman | ok | 14:15 |
| johnx | and I'd like to do a proper package that can be put in extras or extras-devel complete with .install | 14:15 |
| lardman | I'll try to produce a backported bluez-utils on Sunday or early next week | 14:15 |
| lardman | johnx: good plan | 14:16 |
| Sts|office | doesn't this shout SSU upgrade problems? i mean, with the havoc tz1 caused.. | 14:16 |
| lardman | Sts|office: what's that? | 14:16 |
| lardman | ah, it'll be the same version as comes installed | 14:16 |
| Sts|office | well, putting a bluez-utils into extras :P | 14:17 |
| lardman | no, it won't go into extras | 14:17 |
| Sts|office | ah, k | 14:17 |
| johnx | lardman, actually, maybe we could package it in some other way... | 14:17 |
| lardman | I'd prefer it to be released officially with an extra ossoX increment, but that will probably not happen very quickly if at all | 14:17 |
| johnx | also, I can use zenity this time | 14:17 |
| lardman | johnx: the a2dp support stuff will be fine in extras, would be good | 14:18 |
| johnx | well, if it depends on a hacked bluez-utils that's not in extras... | 14:18 |
| Sts|office | qwerty12_N800: around? | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | ack hello | 14:22 |
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| X-Fade | GAN800: Ping? | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | anyone know where bofh has gone, no new episodes since dec 12th | 14:24 |
| * lcuk wonders if its moved or just on extended holiday | 14:24 | |
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| wazd | okay, I finaly can code the page | 14:25 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: fired in a crisis! =) | 14:38 |
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| wazd | Just sent vitae to THG russia btw :) | 14:45 |
| wazd | Talking bout "fired in a crisis" :D | 14:45 |
| johnx | Sts|office, sorry to nag if you already knew, but I can't seem to reach repository.mer.tspre.org ... | 14:46 |
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| Sts|office | johnx, oh, right, i almost forgot O_o | 14:46 |
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| Sts|office | server stalled yesterday, going there when im going home at 4pm today | 14:46 |
| johnx | alright, I'll poke at something else for a while :) | 14:47 |
| RST38h | Who are THG? | 14:47 |
| t_s_o | http://www.reallifecomics.com/ | 14:49 |
| Sts|office | heh heh | 14:50 |
| * RST38h is going to ask a stupid question now | 14:51 | |
| RST38h | How do I set the dash pattern in Windows GDI? =) | 14:51 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, insert ubuntu cd and follow instructions | 14:52 |
| lcuk | RST38h, toms hardware i assume | 14:53 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Yes, found it with Google but still can't quite believe it | 14:54 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And, btw, no CDROM drive, so he he he he he he he =) | 14:54 |
| johnx | usb will work :) | 14:55 |
| lcuk | what are you writing for windows for, and if you are doing it in C you are braver than me | 14:55 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I am writing for money. | 14:56 |
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| wazd | thg.ru | 14:58 |
| wazd | Tom's Hardware Guide | 14:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: But why, WHY? | 14:59 |
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| lcuk | same reason you are writing in windows :: money | 14:59 |
| lcuk | i assume | 14:59 |
| lcuk | lol | 14:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No, I do not mean wazd, I mean THG | 14:59 |
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| wazd | Well, pretty easy place and they're training studio photography, that I haven't practiced yet | 15:00 |
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| wazd | And access to some cool gadgets :P | 15:01 |
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| wazd | New Adobe Dreamweaver is pretty cool, trying to help everywhere it could :) | 15:06 |
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| alterego | Right, I should make a shopping list for what I'm gonna need with my beagle board. | 15:10 |
| Sts|office | the rs232 connector thing is a godsend. | 15:10 |
| Sts|office | and a usb cable :P | 15:10 |
| Sts|office | and a null modem cable that actually works :P (i found out my connector i had from a mobo was twisted badly) | 15:11 |
| alterego | I've got an RS232 cable already with some PC104 boards. | 15:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: Really strange for them to open a shop here, given how many similar sites already exist... | 15:11 |
| alterego | I've got an RS232<->Bluetooth (SPP) so that's sorted too :) | 15:11 |
| alterego | What I really need is an S-Video DIM to SCART and a hdmi<->DVI | 15:12 |
| alterego | I also need a DVI capable monitor, but I'll steal that from work until I buy my own. | 15:12 |
| lardman | cu chaps | 15:14 |
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| * lcuk can't wait for a packaged omap3+touch solution | 15:17 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: N97? =) | 15:18 |
| lcuk | im actually thinking more like a ninja swoop on nokia hq, or maybe movial :D | 15:19 |
| lcuk | they have plenty | 15:19 |
| lcuk | infact, wheres Ti based :D | 15:19 |
| jaska | *shrug* texas?:D | 15:19 |
| * lcuk dons his ninja suit | 15:19 | |
| johnx | all they have is calculators and chips though | 15:19 |
| lcuk | heh yeah good point | 15:20 |
| lcuk | no its not johnx | 15:20 |
| lcuk | http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O7oTlmlfV20&feature=related | 15:21 |
| lcuk | look here, they have omap3 in handheld touch format | 15:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: Who knows? Maybe lcuk will find a Mighty OMAP3-Based Graphing Calculator there? | 15:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: TI-666, if you wish... | 15:21 |
| johnx | with the awesome abcdef key layout | 15:21 |
| wazd | Sony are real freaks. 1600 on 8" screen... I have 1440 on 19" | 15:21 |
| lcuk | wazd, yeah nokia are like that as well, 800 in 4" | 15:22 |
| johnx | wazd, nah, the freaky part is they plan to ship it with an OS stuck at 96dpi | 15:22 |
| lcuk | or x2 1600 in 8" | 15:22 |
| wazd | But Maemo have zooming and large fonts | 15:23 |
| lcuk | johnx i agree with that problem, they should supply suitable reading glasses | 15:23 |
| lcuk | wazd, so does windows | 15:23 |
| lcuk | and wheres zooming on maemo? | 15:23 |
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| wazd | Browser :) | 15:24 |
| johnx | compile xmag :) | 15:24 |
| lcuk | [ctrl] mousewheell | 15:24 |
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| lcuk | any browser does scaling surely | 15:24 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Sony's thing is shiny though! | 15:24 |
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| RST38h | (and will probably have a real Intel CPU) | 15:25 |
| wazd | RST38h: nope, it's atom | 15:25 |
| johnx | anyways, point is maemo is actually sized for a 225dpi screen, and windows won't be, because (unless something has changed) changing font size radically tends to break random apps' layouts | 15:25 |
| lcuk | what does a fake intel chip look like? | 15:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: Poor Sony then... | 15:25 |
| lcuk | wazd, atom is real intel | 15:25 |
| wazd | lcuk: but not real chip :) | 15:25 |
| johnx | lcuk, fake intel chip? ever heard of cyrix? | 15:25 |
| lcuk | yeah but thats not "intel chip" its "intel compatible" | 15:26 |
| lcuk | ish | 15:26 |
| RST38h | Well, Atom is a real chip | 15:26 |
| lcuk | yeah and really made by intel | 15:26 |
| RST38h | Real intel compatible chip by Intel | 15:26 |
| lcuk | so its not fake | 15:26 |
| glass | lcuk: i guess it would look my intel usb hub. crappiest quality ever | 15:26 |
| wazd | but not real CPU)) | 15:26 |
| RST38h | naah, not fake | 15:26 |
| RST38h | hey, it is faster than OMAP2! | 15:26 |
| lcuk | wazd, whats wrong with atom? its revolutionary from intels POV | 15:27 |
| RST38h | I just wouldn't spend $800+ for a "netbook" with Atom inside | 15:27 |
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| johnx | heh, and clock for clock, I bet a 603e is faster than an ARM11 as well... | 15:27 |
| lcuk | eee tablet looks interesting | 15:27 |
| Meiz_n810 | hopefully arm-laptops pop out soon | 15:27 |
| wazd | lcuk: well, it does what it meant to do | 15:27 |
| * lcuk dislocates his arm | 15:27 | |
| jaska | its a poor mans x86, no out-of-order, register renames etc? | 15:27 |
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| johnx | jaska, it's a fast pentium mmx :) | 15:28 |
| lcuk | anyway, bbl | 15:28 |
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| wazd | But UMPC's on Atom are total crap | 15:30 |
| wazd | Like benq's one | 15:30 |
| johnx | MIDs or UMPCs? | 15:30 |
| wazd | who needs that hot brick that works for 2 hours? | 15:30 |
| wazd | Both :0 | 15:30 |
| wazd | :) | 15:30 |
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| mavhc | someone with no heating? | 15:31 |
| wazd | :D | 15:31 |
| johnx | so neat to see the CPU market heating up again in the embedded area | 15:31 |
| mavhc | vista is supposed to scale stuff better, winfx stuff anyway | 15:31 |
| jaska | my old p200mmx laptop was nice for doing wlan measurements in -30c.. kept my hands warm | 15:31 |
| johnx | heh, pun not intended | 15:31 |
| mavhc | intel: arm sucks, well, except for that strongarm that we bought, that didn't suck when we owned it, but after we sold it it sucked again | 15:32 |
| t_s_o | iirc, that was the interesting thing comparing via nano to intel atom. atom went in-order to get the wattage down, nano went out-of-order to get speed up. end result, comparable speed to watt ratio... | 15:32 |
| johnx | jaska, and now you can relive those old memories with the new, Atom. I'd love to see a clock for clock comparison against a 200mmx :) | 15:32 |
| wazd | I don't know details of CPU actions, but why there are still no easy recompilling from x86 to Arm? | 15:32 |
| johnx | wazd, there are. look at debian/ubuntu | 15:33 |
| jaska | well, the laptop was the slowest 200mmx possible.. problems with l2 cache i think | 15:33 |
| mavhc | if you have the source, and it makes no assumptions about byte order, register size etc, it might work | 15:33 |
| jaska | also if you made it beep while a network card transmitted the hardware locked up | 15:33 |
| johnx | ah, separate L2 cache. had to be careful which mobo you picked back then :) | 15:33 |
| jaska | etc :) | 15:33 |
| wazd | And why then everybody stuck with x86? | 15:33 |
| mavhc | everything in debian works on ARM | 15:33 |
| mavhc | because of closed source stuff, and the cost of making faster and faster chips | 15:34 |
| johnx | wazd, because it's only easy to recompile if you write proper, portable code in the first place that doesn't make stupid assumptions | 15:34 |
| t_s_o | wazd: to costly to get all those in-house solutions going on new hardware? | 15:34 |
| wazd | Maybe better put money in software transition to arm platforms | 15:34 |
| jaska | x86 has to be the ugliest possible isa tho | 15:34 |
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| johnx | wazd, you'd lose so much performance you'd be better off on x86 | 15:34 |
| t_s_o | heh, i keep thinking that there are many offices that run internal systems built around ms office, using the vbscript as a RAD of sorts... | 15:35 |
| jaska | (actually, not sure if its ugliest possible, i havent encountered ia64) | 15:35 |
| johnx | wazd, or do you mean recoding crappy old windows apps? | 15:35 |
| wazd | I don't mean to throw away x86 and use arm everywhere | 15:35 |
| wazd | but x86 UMPCs are totally ridiculous | 15:35 |
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| johnx | yes. should see more cortex-a8 UMPCs soon | 15:36 |
| johnx | but windows being x86 only is a pretty big factor right there | 15:36 |
| alterego | There's this really hilarious thread about pandora on youtube. It's just one massive flame war about the DS being better than it ^_^ | 15:37 |
| jaska | dont really care about windows on that size machines, latest 3d fps games wont run anyway :) | 15:37 |
| * alterego wanna be techie gamers are hilarious ^_^ | 15:37 | |
| wazd | people don't need OS, htey need software | 15:37 |
| alterego | That wasn't an emote ^_^ | 15:38 |
| mavhc | x86 is like an evil devil child, even its parents can't kill it, as intel tried to do with ia64 | 15:38 |
| johnx | wazd, people don't know what they want. Also: "People hate change, even change for the better." | 15:38 |
| jaska | ia64 had somewhat of a "second system effect" | 15:38 |
| johnx | probably some deeply ingrained survival instinct | 15:38 |
| wazd | Destroy Humanity! :) | 15:38 |
| mavhc | it's like microsoft's backwards compatibility, it makes windows suck more, but they can't leave it out | 15:39 |
| alterego | I think mobility will be an important step into the demise of the ia32 architecture ;) | 15:39 |
| johnx | wazd, heh, "Now I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying we should take all the warning labels off of stuff and let things work themselves out." | 15:39 |
| mavhc | can we just castrate them? | 15:40 |
| alterego | For instance, the next tablet will have the ability to run amazing games through your TV. You can get a wiimote and pair it with the "N900" and you've got a winner mobile console O_O | 15:40 |
| johnx | alterego, and the move to computers being more an appliance | 15:40 |
| alterego | Exactly. | 15:40 |
| alterego | In the future, the only people needing actual workstations will be developers, media producers and service providers. The normal desktop user now wont need one. | 15:41 |
| t_s_o | data portability will be a major thing. to bad that cloud solutions seems hell bent on recreating the proprietary formats of ms office and similar... | 15:41 |
| johnx | in the early days of electricity people would have one electric motor that they would swap around to power different things. Then motors got cheap and everything has its own. We're on the verge of that same situation with computers. [no sources cited | 15:41 |
| alterego | Heh, cloud computing sounds like vapour where to me ;) | 15:42 |
| mavhc | the average house has over 100 computers already | 15:42 |
| alterego | DNA based storage, now that's something I can see happening ^_^ | 15:42 |
| * alterego chickles. | 15:42 | |
| alterego | mavhc: did you watch the Christmas lectures ;) | 15:42 |
| RST38h | johnx: in here, most warning labels are already off | 15:42 |
| RST38h | johnx: does not seem to solve the problem though, so more proactive measures may be required | 15:42 |
| johnx | RST38h, "Hot coffee is hot." "Do not attempt to stop chainsaw with hands or genitals." | 15:43 |
| t_s_o | alterego: to me its mostly about cloud storage then actual computing. in that having contacts, calendar and files online (with automatic mirroring onto devices as they connect) makes for backup and access at the same time | 15:43 |
| alterego | t_s_o: I couldn't agree more. | 15:43 |
| alterego | I have a setup like that already :) | 15:43 |
| Sts|office | johnx: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=255776&postcount=68 <- am i missing anything there? | 15:43 |
| mavhc | alterego: yeah, my cousin's daughter was in the audience, seeing if we could spot her | 15:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: "And DO SEE what this button does" | 15:43 |
| mavhc | I want some Do Not Eat stickers to go around putting on random stuff | 15:44 |
| alterego | mavhc: I found them very interesting. Even though I already new it all I still enjoyed watching it :) | 15:44 |
| mavhc | alterego: they do get to demo the latest stuff, instead of just reading about it | 15:44 |
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| alterego | Yeah | 15:44 |
| johnx | Sts|office, looks good :) | 15:45 |
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| mavhc | at some point I need to be able to download OpenGoogleDocs to my home server, or to EC2 and run it myself to have control | 15:46 |
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| johnx | mavhc, yeah, RMS thinks the same thing. | 15:48 |
| johnx | I'm not too worried as long as I can get my data out | 15:48 |
| Sts|office | heh, danish public started realizing how vulnerable they are if a service provider goes tits up | 15:49 |
| alterego | I just host everything myself. | 15:49 |
| alterego | I wouldn't trust a anyone else with my data :) | 15:49 |
| Sts|office | company went bankrupt, no way of getting your data out | 15:49 |
| alterego | Plus it's good having the fine grain control over every aspect of my application interaction. | 15:50 |
| johnx | alterego, I make it a point not to deal with email servers or spam filtering unless someone is paying me | 15:50 |
| alterego | Heh :) | 15:50 |
| alterego | I don't have any spam filtering and my email box is clean :) | 15:50 |
| alterego | I've got a nice little email setup actually, using postfix and dovecot. | 15:50 |
| * Sts|office uses a very cheap mx hotel. works brilliantly. | 15:51 | |
| johnx | guess my email address got out somehow, or it's just too easy to guess | 15:51 |
| johnx | I get spam in every human language | 15:51 |
| alterego | Authentication against a MySQL database, POP3 and IMAP4 with TLS. I also wrote a handy Rails application for managing users and domains. Which I use at work. | 15:51 |
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| alterego | Heh | 15:51 |
| Sts|office | ok, Texrat keeps on talking about SyncML to calendar on Maemo.. | 15:51 |
| Sts|office | where is it? :P | 15:51 |
| alterego | I get more spam on my blog, and that has only been online for three weeks O_O | 15:51 |
| alterego | opensync ftw! :) | 15:52 |
| mavhc | I wouldn't trust me with my data either, I'm crap at backing up, I don't care about privacy, easily solved with encryption, just if something is closed/"upgraded" | 15:52 |
| Jaffa | Sts|office: GPE-Calendar/OpenSync supports SyncML | 15:52 |
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| Sts|office | k | 15:52 |
| mavhc | johnx: my klingon spam still getting through? | 15:53 |
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| johnx | heh | 15:54 |
| mavhc | mr spock ears for sale on ebay would be a good subject for klingon spam, narrow your market | 15:56 |
| alterego | Wow, ebuyer are doing a massive January sale | 15:56 |
| alterego | I'm gonna buy a new TV :) | 15:56 |
| Sts|office | johnx: i'm pondering how we can try out nokia's initial green light of maemo.org provided images | 15:56 |
| Sts|office | i'm thinking we can tread waters by a simple "take initfs image from existing firmware image, do one-two modifications on servers and provide under license agreement (and MAC auth) on maemo.org" | 15:57 |
| RST38h | Sts: That one probably won't fly | 15:59 |
| Sts|office | RST38h: any reasons why it wouldn't? | 16:00 |
| johnx | yeah, pulling from initfs seems easiest. | 16:00 |
| johnx | Sts|office, have you tried an android kernel with mer, out of curiosity? | 16:00 |
| Sts|office | johnx: think solca did | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Sts: Well, you are creating a derivative work from their whole initfs, which may lead to customers blaming them for the bugs in it | 16:01 |
| Sts|office | RST38h: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-December/002818.html , http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-December/002824.html | 16:01 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: that's the whole point | 16:01 |
| RST38h | pulling some choice parts and clearly labelling them as nokia ip would be better | 16:01 |
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| Sts|office | so rewriting initfs and taking in the parts we need? | 16:02 |
| lcuk | ~lart .net | 16:02 |
| * infobot throws .net's poor little doggy off a cliff | 16:02 | |
| RST38h | prolly | 16:02 |
| Jaffa | Isn't the point of doing it server-side, and having the MAC auth/licence agreeement that there's no real restriction on *how* the images are put together | 16:02 |
| Sts|office | yeah, it is | 16:02 |
| RST38h | so, you want to create new initfs on a Nokia server dynamically? | 16:03 |
| Sts|office | RST38h: maemo.org | 16:03 |
| RST38h | from pieces taken from the old initfs and your own stuff? | 16:03 |
| Jaffa | And so I can't see that step #1 in testing that infrastructure being "taking existing Maemo image and making a small change [i.e. setting an additional environment var during boot]" being a problem | 16:03 |
| Sts|office | RST38h: yeah | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Sts: It is cute, but probably won't fly through their legal department | 16:04 |
| Sts|office | RST38h: well, they seemed not to freak extremely at first | 16:04 |
| Sts|office | which is interesting | 16:04 |
| Sts|office | (they were probably just busy to get earlier home for xmas, though .. :>) | 16:04 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Nokia are involved in these discussions | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Sts: neural pathways are too long, your post hasn't reached The Brain yet | 16:04 |
| johnx | RST38h, they've already been releasing "unofficial" images anyways | 16:05 |
| RST38h | johnx: Good argument for it | 16:05 |
| RST38h | I kinda doubt it would atter to them where the image is built at the end though | 16:05 |
| Sts|office | i think it matters how it's distributed :P | 16:06 |
| RST38h | They would like to 1) avoid liability and 2) avoid IP leakage | 16:06 |
| johnx | well, the stuff we want is on the server, and the images would need to be distributed on the server | 16:06 |
| Jaffa | The reason for having it built on maemo.org is that there is then never a version (or component part) which is third party sourced (e.g. Flash) which is out-there not behind a license agreement | 16:06 |
| johnx | no reason to pull it down and put it up again | 16:06 |
| Jaffa | If the Flash-bit was stored in mer's git, then anyone could reuse it or build it outside of a Nokia device. Meaning Nokia have been complicit in violating their contracts with third party suppliers. | 16:07 |
| Sts|office | mm, i'd stay clear of even mentioning flash. the more interesting parts are stuff like umac.ko and the wifi firmware :P | 16:07 |
| RST38h | BTW http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/01/cadillac-one_01.jpg | 16:08 |
| Sts|office | (and bluetooth) | 16:08 |
| Jaffa | Sts|office: True, but it's a simple way of demonstrating the reasoning | 16:08 |
| johnx | RST38h, following gizmodo's RSS feed? | 16:08 |
| RST38h | johnx: Among others | 16:08 |
| RST38h | johnx: You haven't seen what DailyRotten brought this morning yet... | 16:08 |
| johnx | RST38h, I don't read it :) | 16:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: Wrong, wrong choice =) | 16:09 |
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| johnx | RST38h, it's like a supermarket tabloid :/ | 16:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: Some time around 2004, you did not have to read CNN because all the important news were at DailyRotten anyway =) | 16:10 |
| RST38h | johnx: Unlike tabloid's most DR's stories are real. | 16:10 |
| johnx | RST38h, eh. I have no interest in that kind of drama | 16:11 |
| RST38h | johnx: is there any other drama left worth interest? =) | 16:13 |
| johnx | RST38h, let's just say, I'm happy to enjoy/deal with my own relationships without caring about drama that happens to people totally unrelated to me | 16:15 |
| johnx | there are only so many hours in the day | 16:15 |
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| RST38h | johnx: it is temporary. | 16:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: but DR is forever! =) | 16:16 |
| johnx | RST38h, that's the first good argument against my plan to live forever | 16:17 |
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| eichi | cho {A}{B}{C}{D} | 16:24 |
| eichi | *echo | 16:24 |
| eichi | kann ich mir so nicht alle möglichkeiten rauslassen? | 16:25 |
| * alterego wonders if fremantle will run on the beagle board | 16:25 | |
| johnx | alterego, mer :) | 16:25 |
| andre__ | eichi, was that german language? | 16:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: 100% agree on that one | 16:25 |
| alterego | :) | 16:25 |
| Sts|office | alterego: maemo runs with a bit of hacks, so :P | 16:26 |
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| eichi | sorry, wrong channel | 16:29 |
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| johnx | must be getting old. just thought, "Slashdot is really going downhill." | 16:32 |
| Sts|office | it's been going downhill for quite a bit of years | 16:32 |
| johnx | for a long time I just held the belief that it was never that good to start with | 16:33 |
| jaska | like 10 or so | 16:33 |
| Sts|office | hm, it was possible to change initfs nokia logo right? | 16:33 |
| johnx | good question | 16:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: "Enthusiastic but dull" (C)anonymous about Slashdotters | 16:33 |
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| jaska | atleast it doesnt play a retarded hands touching animation like the s60 phone i used to have | 16:34 |
| johnx | was hoping for some *sane* discussion about that new Palm thing, but slashdot makes ITT look like a mensa meeting | 16:34 |
| RST38h | Sts: Yep, ITT should have a post on that | 16:34 |
| Sts|office | k | 16:34 |
| Sts|office | it "probably" helps a bit if the initfs doesn't try to convince people it's a nokia initfs.. | 16:35 |
| Sts|office | :P | 16:35 |
| RST38h | johnx: A moment, I just saw a more meaningful place in google | 16:35 |
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| RST38h | johnx: relatively decent public view snapshot here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=425631 | 16:36 |
| johnx | RST38h, thanks | 16:37 |
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| alterego | Your mom's a Nokia initfs | 16:46 |
| * alterego wonders where that came from O_O | 16:47 | |
| Sts|office | ow, burn | 16:47 |
| aquatix | alterego: your mom's so big she has her own gravity field! | 16:47 |
| * aquatix blinks | 16:48 | |
| aquatix | not sure where that came from either | 16:48 |
| alterego | aquatix: at least mines not big enough to create a point singularity like yours :P | 16:48 |
| aquatix | oi :P | 16:48 |
| alterego | There doing some _very_ good deals at ebuyer on TV's. I'm gonna buy one for the beagle board. | 16:49 |
| aquatix | heh :) | 16:50 |
| aquatix | now that's showing a good heart | 16:50 |
| aquatix | buying your beagle board its own tv | 16:50 |
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| alterego | :) | 16:51 |
| alterego | Well, it's going to get turned into a glitzy 3D PVR :) | 16:51 |
| alterego | With support for watching multiple channels simultaneously :) | 16:52 |
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| alterego | http://alterego.metapath.org/multiplex.png - All those streams are coming from the same DVB-T tuner dongle :) | 16:52 |
| Sts|office | kinda neat though | 16:54 |
| alterego | Yah | 16:54 |
| Sts|office | which DVB-T dongle? | 16:54 |
| alterego | It's some cheap one, I'll let you know when I get home. | 16:54 |
| Meiz_n810 | repository.mer.tspre.org down? | 16:55 |
| alterego | Basically, I was reading a website and you want to get a cheap dongle that's compatible with Linux because the most expensive ones automatically filter out the channel from the multiplex. Where as the cheaper ones stream the whole multiplex, which allows you to access multiple channels _on_ it. | 16:55 |
| Sts|office | Meiz_n810: yeah, should be up in 40 mins again | 16:55 |
| Meiz_n810 | ok | 16:55 |
| alterego | If I get another two cheap dongles I should be able to watch every single freeview channel in the UK simultaneously. At least the major ones. | 16:56 |
| Sts|office | provided the server didn't get stolen or something (i have a backup.) | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | Happy DVB-H viewers... | 16:58 |
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| alterego | I don't think DVB-H has much coverage in the UK :/ | 16:58 |
| wazd | altergo: give me your display right now! | 16:58 |
| wazd | alterego: Obey!11 | 16:59 |
| alterego | :P | 16:59 |
| RST38h | no coverage here at all | 16:59 |
| alterego | wazd: it's my laptops ;) | 16:59 |
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| RST38h | not in the states either, afaik | 16:59 |
| aquatix | wazd: sudo give display | 17:00 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:00 |
| skibur | I know we can port x86 apps to an arm system, but can it be done that other way? | 17:01 |
| RST38h | aquatix: xhost + | 17:01 |
| RST38h | skibur: Yes. Next question? | 17:01 |
| aquatix | wazd: or did i have to imagine a Dalek sound with it? :) | 17:01 |
| aquatix | RST38h: :) | 17:01 |
| skibur | With what X compiler? | 17:01 |
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| RST38h | skibur: With a big X compiler! | 17:05 |
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| skibur | o nevermind, its been done. ---> http://www.armedslack.org/ | 17:07 |
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| skibur | A, I need a scatchbox | 17:14 |
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| StsN800 | qwerty12, its fairly easy to make a diablo kernel that boots rootfs instead of initfs isn't it? | 17:18 |
| qwerty12 | StsN800, yes | 17:18 |
| StsN800 | anything i can prod you for? | 17:19 |
| StsN800 | just pondering best way to make a flashable mer at this stag | 17:20 |
| StsN800 | e | 17:20 |
| qwerty12 | And you start components from initfs separately/or use your own replacements? | 17:20 |
| StsN800 | yeah | 17:21 |
| qwerty12 | Wait, I'll see if I can knock up an standard diablo kernel that boots from rootfs. | 17:21 |
| StsN800 | we cannot distribute a initfs atm so | 17:21 |
| qwerty12 | Want fanoush's mmc patch in there for good measure? :D | 17:22 |
| StsN800 | hehe | 17:22 |
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| StsN800 | the act of finding which one is internal/external is a nightmare | 17:23 |
| qwerty12 | (can't believe Nokia messed things up, it's ok to ship a device that does that but not a kernel & xserver with rotation... incompetent shits) | 17:23 |
| RST38h | yea | 17:27 |
| StsN800 | if it works feel free to add community fixes | 17:28 |
| StsN800 | rotation is good | 17:28 |
| qwerty12 | Does Mer support Xrandr yet? | 17:29 |
| StsN800 | think so | 17:29 |
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| StsN800 | xorg | 17:29 |
| qwerty12 | Cool :-) | 17:29 |
| StsN800 | Meiz_n810, rep up again | 17:31 |
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| qwerty12 | ffs, why does menuconfig suck balls | 17:38 |
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| * Stskeeps tries to figure out what pizza to order | 17:43 | |
| qwerty12 | Weed special | 17:44 |
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| wazd | Screw this, I won't make any templates, let's sit with 5th grader website, okay thats fine | 17:48 |
| Stslaptop | afternoon wazd | 17:49 |
| wazd | :) | 17:49 |
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| wazd | Really just time wasting, I can put a .png in portfolio | 17:51 |
| * qwerty12 kills my n800 counterpart. Die bitch | 17:52 | |
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| Stslaptop | wazd: applying for a job or something? :P | 17:53 |
| qwerty12 | Maemo doesn't like being booted without its initfs :> | 17:53 |
| Stslaptop | qwerty12: probably not | 17:53 |
| qwerty12 | I know not | 17:54 |
| wazd | No it's won't boot :) | 17:54 |
| wazd | it* | 17:54 |
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| wazd | Just tried to push my maemo.org template | 17:55 |
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| wazd | But unfortunately I'm late and there are already 4 (!) pages made with chosen one | 17:55 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Doesn't mean that everything is set in stone. | 17:56 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: Although the global theme is agreed on.. | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | There is still a lot of layout work to be done.. | 17:56 |
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| wazd | X_Fade: it's really not the level of advanced developement platform website IMHO, and not only mine | 17:59 |
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| wazd | X_Fade: Just look around, check other websites, not only Canola2 ones | 17:59 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: Check Nokia.com at last :) | 17:59 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Sorry, I can't. Is down for me.. | 18:01 |
| wazd | X-Fade: All these stamps, rounded corners and washed floors are already gone | 18:01 |
| wazd | X-Fade: They were trends 2 or three years ago | 18:01 |
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| alterego | Oooo, I want one! http://specialcomp.com/beagleboard/DSCN0320.JPG | 18:03 |
| alterego | Though, I might make my own. | 18:03 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: Now they're all history. Only apple uses it, cause they used this style for whole life | 18:04 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: And now you're making a website for 2 or 3 year lifecycle in style that's already old | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | at least it's not https://usshop.ubuntu.com/training.php?catid=5 | 18:07 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: Not dramaticaly far from it in fact | 18:09 |
| X-Fade | wazd: It is a community project, not a company. | 18:10 |
| wazd | X-Fade: And that allows it to suck right from the start?) | 18:10 |
| wazd | X-Fade: Nokia spent zillions of euros on site redesign | 18:10 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: I don't think they spent that bag of money on bad product | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | wazd: But you also have to understand that everything is taste. Some like it, some don't. | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | damn, that pizza came fast :P | 18:12 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: I have Pizza restraunt right in my building so they just fly to my floor with it :) | 18:13 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: I totaly agree, and the main goal is to make site cover maximum of peoples tastes | 18:14 |
| X-Fade | I think that the most important thing is the layout, the way information is presented and can be found. | 18:14 |
| X-Fade | Things like rounded edges is just sugar. | 18:15 |
| X-Fade | And can easily be changed by just tweaking the css. | 18:15 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: Well, you're making a web site to remake it later? | 18:17 |
| X-Fade | No, but I don't expect a look to last very long either ;) | 18:17 |
| wazd | X-Fade: http://www.artlebedev.ru/ here's the site of most popular russian design studio | 18:18 |
| wazd | X-Fade: Optimus Maximus and stuff | 18:18 |
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| X-Fade | wazd: That cries ugly to me? | 18:18 |
| wazd | X-Fade: yes, and it's 5 years old | 18:19 |
| X-Fade | You have to understand that the design was done by the guy who designed the logo. And that logo was picked by community members. | 18:19 |
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| X-Fade | Everything has been done out in the open. Current design is still open for tweaks, but it was picked a few months ago. | 18:20 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: And that's my fault that I've lost this discussion | 18:21 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: Why the web-site design is done by logo designer? | 18:22 |
| X-Fade | wazd: But as said, there is still a lot open to be discussed. But I'm really not the one to talk to. Post to the list. | 18:22 |
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| wazd | X-Fade: ok, I'll write my observations in some gentle form :) | 18:28 |
| * lcuk bows his head | 18:29 | |
| * lcuk mourns the loss of another of his apps | 18:29 | |
| wazd | Sorry for my bad passion but I feel really bad when something really bad in desing happening that affects me :) | 18:30 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: liqsanity? | 18:30 |
| lcuk | no, the mighty wheels of change bring about vb.net apps which are less capable, slower (but prettier), and means more good code is put on the scrapheap :) in this case its been stable since 2002 | 18:31 |
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| TheFatal | what text editor can i use to modify some .xml file ? | 18:32 |
| qwerty12_ | vi | 18:32 |
| lcuk | emacs | 18:32 |
| qwerty12_ | hexedit | 18:32 |
| lcuk | liqed ;) | 18:32 |
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| TheFatal | but from terminal | 18:33 |
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| mikkov_ | vi, emacs or nano | 18:34 |
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| TheFatal | tnhks | 18:35 |
| mikkov_ | X-Fade: are donwload statistics graphs working? They all say "Last update: 2008-12-24 09:20 UTC" | 18:36 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov_: I'm waiting for the stats for last week of 2008, the stats generator overlapped and I requested new ones. | 18:51 |
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| mikkov_ | X-Fade: thanks. btw about the Pearls, I think that aisleriot should be listed in the Pearl list. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/aisleriot/ | 18:54 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov_: Is it still poluting the Extras menu? | 18:55 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: Or was that another app I recall.. | 18:55 |
| qwerty12_ | X-Chat probably :) | 18:56 |
| mikkov_ | it shouldn't be | 18:56 |
| mikkov_ | (after all my e-mail is in the Maintainer:) | 18:56 |
| X-Fade | No there was this app that installed 60 icons in the menu orso. | 18:57 |
| mikkov_ | was it some compilation of small games? | 18:57 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: Yeah.. | 18:57 |
| mikkov_ | that I remember, but haven't seen it since OS2007 | 18:57 |
| X-Fade | But it was a long time ago.. | 18:57 |
| qwerty12_ | X-Fade, simon tatham's puzzles! :P :-) | 18:58 |
| X-Fade | I'm still thinking of a good way to select pearls by the community.. | 18:58 |
| qwerty12_ | Or was that in extras :/ | 18:58 |
| mikkov_ | anyway aisleriot is fully hildonized by upstream/gnomegames maintainers | 18:59 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: Yeah, it looks really nice. | 18:59 |
| X-Fade | And indeed it is a good candidate. | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | Anybody object? | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | 5 | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | 3 | 19:00 |
| mikkov_ | 0 | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | 4 | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | 2 | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | 1 | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | ;) | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | Done.. | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | any solitaire like things are a basic item for mobile/pda/tablet things :P | 19:01 |
| qwerty12_ | X-Fade, btw, can autobuilder only build for an certain arch? I'm just curious after seeing some packages built for i386 | 19:01 |
| mikkov_ | X-Fade: well this method seems to work pretty fine ;) | 19:01 |
| qwerty12_ | s/i386/i386 only/ | 19:01 |
| infobot | qwerty12_ meant: X-Fade, btw, can autobuilder only build for an certain arch? I'm just curious after seeing some packages built for i386 only | 19:01 |
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| mikkov_ | maybe I should update the screenshot for aisleriot.. | 19:02 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_: Yeah, you can select that. | 19:02 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_: Somewhere in the debian files. | 19:02 |
| qwerty12_ | X-Fade, ah, I see. Thanks! | 19:02 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: Well, that might help ;) | 19:02 |
| X-Fade | mikkov_: I'm not sure if this process is fair, but then again.. selection has been slow lately :) | 19:03 |
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| qwerty12_ | X-Fade, psst, do you take bribes? | 19:03 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov_: But yeah, a nice OS2008 with hildon status bar is better.. | 19:04 |
| X-Fade | qwerty12_: Now you have spoilt it :) Never post that on a public channel :D | 19:04 |
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| mikkov_ | X-Fade: need to play freecell a bit ;) | 19:04 |
| qwerty12_ | X-Fade, Damn! I apologise deeply :D | 19:04 |
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| X-Fade | It would be nice if we could have a new pearl every week. | 19:06 |
| mikkov_ | autorotate the pearls list? | 19:07 |
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| X-Fade | mikkov_: I'm sure there are more application that are good candidates. | 19:07 |
| mikkov_ | rotate as a backup ;) | 19:07 |
| mikkov_ | leafpad is another app which is fully hildonized & works very well for what it is made for | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | xournal :P | 19:10 |
| mikkov_ | if it is in pearls list it should be removed until there is installable version in diablo extras | 19:11 |
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| dneary | I think leafpad & xournal are both already pearls | 19:15 |
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| RST38h | why not mention maemopad+? | 19:20 |
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| Jaffa | Every "normal" app shouldn't be a pearl. It should be reserved for ones which really stand out. | 19:26 |
| Jaffa | And there's a set of criteria somewhere | 19:27 |
| qwerty12_ | Forget criteria, it's all about the €€€ :) | 19:27 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Probably this one? http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects | 19:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: that's it | 19:30 |
| * RST38h suggests scrapping the Pearls category altogether and just judging from the number of downloads | 19:30 | |
| wazd | WebKit engine is definitely a Pearl) | 19:30 |
| RST38h | Otherwise you will be forever arguing about what a pearl is | 19:30 |
| Jaffa | wazd: it will be - needs to get there first | 19:30 |
| mikkov_ | funny that the word "pearl" isn't mentioned on that page | 19:31 |
| qwerty12_ | WebKit engine isn't listed on the catalogue | 19:31 |
| RST38h | not yet | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Except for the past X months, there's been no argument about whether A or B are pearls - because there have been very few suggestions | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | eCoach isn't listed there. So there's obviously not an exact overlap | 19:32 |
| RST38h | It needs time :) | 19:32 |
| RST38h | But you can solve this with an ITT voting | 19:32 |
| RST38h | Let people vote what gets to be a pearl | 19:33 |
| wazd | I wonder if a webpage is the heaviest thing to scroll kinetically | 19:33 |
| RST38h | wazd: Depends on whether you need to render it | 19:33 |
| X-Fade | wazd: A page full off videos ;) | 19:33 |
| RST38h | My guess is that it is rendered if not statically, then at least in rather big chunks | 19:33 |
| wazd | And flashing flash :) | 19:33 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: downloads.maemo.org already has a voting system, why overcomplicate things? And it's not like there's an overburden of pearls which need whittling down. | 19:34 |
| wazd | So current hardware can handle kinetic scrolling in all applications theoretically | 19:35 |
| X-Fade | wazd: Worked fine for mauku. | 19:35 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: the main reason it's not implemented is specification & development, I suspect. | 19:35 |
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| Jaffa | i.e. (and these are rhetorical questions) how do you handle multiple selection & drag to scroll? is it implemented at the GtkScrollView layer or a new widget? What scrollbars are shown? etc. | 19:36 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Nobody uses that voting system | 19:36 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So, a one time poll at itt would probably help | 19:36 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Hildon Gtk is still very close to upstream, so it's not surprising it's taken to Fremantle to get it sorted. | 19:37 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: That has already been done. When Quim asked for remarkable projects.. | 19:37 |
| Stslaptop | wazd: i think kinetic fremantle widgets are already there and doesn't use acceleration | 19:37 |
| Stslaptop | but then again 300mhz extra might do a difference | 19:37 |
| X-Fade | Stslaptop: And a graphics bus that can handle it ;) | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I think the word "nobody" is, again, a little too specific (and wrong). But if you want to draw attention to the fact that it's the community who select the pearls, and help rally people round discussing what makes a good pearl and getting more people involved in the selection (and, hopefully, encouraging app authors to go that extra mile), by all means - create a poll :-) | 19:38 |
| Stslaptop | X-Fade: mmm. | 19:38 |
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| Stslaptop | then again, we have stuff like liqbase.. | 19:38 |
| RST38h | Sts: stuff like web page rendering is gated by memory bandwidth | 19:39 |
| Stslaptop | yeah, but i wasn't talking of web page rendering | 19:39 |
| Stslaptop | i meant in other apps :) | 19:39 |
| RST38h | Sts: if it is video then yes, by all means | 19:39 |
| RST38h | Sts: Java, emulators, web browsing, word processing are all mainly gated by memory performance though | 19:40 |
| * Stslaptop wonders why typical open source bastions of news sites didn't pick up on OLPC firing half its staff | 19:41 | |
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| Stslaptop | or i managed to miss it totally, since i first read it on my local newspapers | 19:41 |
| RST38h | OLPC is mostly off the radars now | 19:42 |
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| RST38h | They went off when they decided to switch to Windows. Open source community does not excuse such actions =) | 19:42 |
| Stslaptop | lcuk: now i have the answer for your 1000 solar powered omap boards. charity. | 19:42 |
| Stslaptop | or helping develop the "poor" countries | 19:43 |
| Stslaptop | helping to establish infrastructure :P | 19:44 |
| RST38h | too expensive | 19:44 |
| RST38h | does not run Office. | 19:44 |
| Stslaptop | RST38h: it was a question on "what would you do with 1000 solar powered omap boards" | 19:44 |
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| Stslaptop | so, what would you do with 1000 solar powered omap boards, RST38h? | 19:46 |
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| gnuton | Hi | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | evening gnuton | 19:48 |
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| gnuton | hei Stskeeps | 19:48 |
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| RST38h | Sts: I would place them in a dot matrix formation in some desert and make them flash subliminal messages to airline pilots | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | gnuton: so where do you work now? since you moved to helsinki of all places :) (just pondered since you said 'hei' :P) | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: heh heh | 19:54 |
| RST38h | Sts: 1000 dots is enough for a 28x5x7 display, the "KILL ALL PEOPLE" and "DONT LET THEM TAKE YOU ALIVE" messages will fit perfectly | 19:55 |
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| Stskeeps | i always wondered why some of the asian countries take pride in those huge gatherings where they show certain logos etc.. | 19:56 |
| gnuton | Stskeeps: I work in Helsinki | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | gnuton: yeah, i meant more specifically as what company :) | 19:57 |
| RST38h | Skype kinda out for Android but not really | 19:57 |
| gnuton | eh he :D | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: and you just explained that quite well (the asian countries) | 19:57 |
| RST38h | I guess Google did not let them use native API :) | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | i mostly have my doubts on google because it's Yet Another API | 19:57 |
| RST38h | Sts: Don't European artsy types like the same? =) | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: soccer people and hippies.. maybe | 19:58 |
| RST38h | Yes, it is a TYPICAL yet another API :) | 19:58 |
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| RST38h | It has got all the usual features: Java, rigid framework, a bunch of new abstractions for the old stuff everybody got used to | 19:59 |
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| Stskeeps | then again i'm not sure what the alternative would be | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | cos j2me is hell on earth | 20:00 |
| RST38h | Sts: S60, WinMobile | 20:00 |
| RST38h | Maemo :) | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but could you see google doing those? :P | 20:00 |
| RST38h | Google does these already | 20:00 |
| RST38h | Both Google Maps and Google Mail are available as native S60 apps | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | as in, pushing a new mobile OS on someone else's work | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | maemo, maybe, but there seem to have been this misunderstanding amongst people it is very hard to seperate the UI from maemo | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | i'm still surprised at how much is actually public :P | 20:01 |
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| Stskeeps | evening fauxmigh1 | 20:02 |
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| K3 | Hello everybody ! | 20:05 |
| K3 | what do you think of that : http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2009-January/053849.html ? | 20:05 |
| RST38h | Sts: Well, as far as Android is concerned, I would expect something with a clean native C++ Api | 20:05 |
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| RST38h | Sts: Too bad that they let some busybody design it instead | 20:05 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810_9: i thought it might be wrong forum to ask for it - discussing with the webkit guy @ iTT might do a lot better to the cause | 20:06 |
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| Jaffa | K3: Someone was asking about pronvit's WebKit-eal containing HTML5 & local storage features. It's currently got them compiled out. | 20:07 |
| RST38h | K3: Methinks it is not possible unless there is a lightweight environment for running such apps. Which, considering JS/CSS requirements, is kinda difficult to do | 20:07 |
| RST38h | Not to say that it can't be done though | 20:07 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | i m the guy wh ask on itt :) | 20:07 |
| wazd | Omg, that Android tablet is without BT | 20:07 |
| wazd | epic fail | 20:08 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | RST38h > the device i target is Palm WebOS, iPhone and Maemo | 20:08 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_n810_9: course you were; apologies | 20:08 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | so for maemo this seems to be near | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Khertan: WebOS remains to be seen (but they claim it works for them) | 20:09 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | but the other one use webkit | 20:09 |
| RST38h | Khertan: iPhone does not provide it at the moment and given that they do not let you run resident stuff, it may not be possible | 20:09 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | RST38h yep it use webkit with html5 openDatabse api | 20:09 |
| RST38h | Khertan: Maemo - should be possible but not sure if you can make it perform well | 20:09 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | RST38h: are you sure ? the feature is enabled ? | 20:10 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | i will try with the iphone of someone | 20:10 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | RST38h yep performances could be a problem | 20:10 |
| RST38h | Khertan: I am not sure about iPhone at all. It just seems to violate Apple's terms | 20:11 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | jaffa: you re welcome, this was the nick which nconfuse you :) | 20:11 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | rst38h: it doesn't need to be resident | 20:12 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | ping ? | 20:12 |
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| RST38h | Khertan: but doesn't it need some backend that stays in memory so that your js apps can connect to it? | 20:13 |
| RST38h | Like Google gears? | 20:13 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | rst38h: storing the js and html locally fix the resident problem | 20:14 |
| Stskeeps | heh, researchers found out that the vikings made pirate copies of iran-made swords | 20:14 |
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| Stskeeps | i always wondered where thepiratebay mentality came from.. | 20:14 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | i ve made some test on my pc with an embedded webkit wigdet in a gtk windows and open a local html file and it s work | 20:15 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | pygtk is already slow on my nit so i m afraid that it will be worse | 20:16 |
| alterego | My beagle board just got shipped :) | 20:16 |
| alterego | And I just bought a HDTV :) | 20:17 |
| ThatOneGuy | anyone know what the trick is to building kernel modules for 770 with 2007he? | 20:17 |
| RST38h | Sts: I wonder if Ahmadi-not-a-jew can sue them in the European court over this =) | 20:17 |
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| * Khertan_n810_9 think he should create a report in bugtracker about the sd card temp problem | 20:17 | |
| Stskeeps | ThatOneGuy: scratchbox | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810_9: what does the packing for your SD card say? :P | 20:18 |
| RST38h | Khertan: So, every js app gets a local file where it stores its state? | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | and was it the internal or the external dying? | 20:18 |
| ThatOneGuy | well yes, I know that lol | 20:18 |
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| ThatOneGuy | I thought I had it right, but insmod saysInvalid format | 20:19 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | RST38h: html5 provide an openDatabase method which enable you to create a local sqlite database | 20:19 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | with javascript and a browser engine which support it you could make apps | 20:20 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | which doesn t need to connect to a server | 20:20 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | :) | 20:20 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | html5 is more applications than document language | 20:21 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | someone know how to change the user agent of webkit on maemo ? | 20:22 |
| RST38h | Khertan: implement a mail client, a calendar, and an address book for maemo using that | 20:22 |
| RST38h | Khertan: + an rss reader =) | 20:22 |
| Xamusk | hi, I just saw in some news that Nokia stopped producing the N810. Is that true or did it just stop producing the WiMax edition? | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | Xamusk: they are pulling back from stores the N810WE, not N810, as far as i know | 20:23 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | RST38h this is exactly what i think :) | 20:23 |
| RST38h | They stopped producing WiMax ed | 20:24 |
| EgS | Khertan: using Qt? | 20:24 |
| RST38h | As to the original N810, we do not know | 20:24 |
| EgS | Khertan: if so, I'd say override QString QWebPage::userAgentForUrl ( const QUrl & url ) const [virtual protected] | 20:24 |
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| Xamusk | Stskeeps, ok, I just thought the newspost fishy, since it starts by saying of the WiMax and then says that nokia is cancelling the N810 production, but then says it's a cellphone | 20:24 |
| RST38h | the poster apparently does not know what he is talking about | 20:25 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | Which is the best place to put a bug related to n810 hardware ? in bugzilla ? | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | Xamusk: then again if there's more than enough produced, it'd make sense to halt production until there's more demand :) | 20:25 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | egs: ? where too ? | 20:25 |
| Xamusk | I hope it releases the N900 soon to catch some of the emerging MID market | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | nokia's honestly way ahead of those.. i mean, with that battery life | 20:26 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | soon like 7 or 8 months ... | 20:26 |
| lcuk | MIDs are too big for all uses, but are more practical than a full laptop | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | established designs, etc | 20:26 |
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| EgS | Khertan: are you writing an app yourself? | 20:27 |
| lcuk | i cant ever see myself holding up a 9" laptop to use as a camera | 20:27 |
| RST38h | Not all MIDs are equal... | 20:27 |
| RST38h | There are smallish ones | 20:27 |
| lcuk | hiya Khertan :) | 20:27 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | egs: nope :) ... hum not an app that include webkit ... at this time just try to use it as default rowser | 20:27 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | and create a js apps :) | 20:28 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | Hi lcuk | 20:28 |
| lcuk | webkit browser looks sweet doesnt it :) | 20:28 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | not for me i got blank page as my phone isp block http request that doesn t have an autorized user agent | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | :) | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | but i like it in professional product :) | 20:29 |
| EgS | Khertan: oh I see... no clue then :) | 20:29 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, but that blank page renders faster than anything and scrolls well ;) | 20:30 |
| EgS | that webkitbrowser for Qt? is that allready in the repo? (stable or dev) | 20:30 |
| lcuk | no | 20:30 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | Hum ... i don t see anything related to hardware in bugzilla ... | 20:30 |
| EgS | s/for Qt/for maemo/ | 20:30 |
| lcuk | well, thats not the one hes talking about | 20:30 |
| infobot | EgS meant: that webkitbrowser for maemo? is that allready in the repo? (stable or dev) | 20:30 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | qt ... pfff | 20:30 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | not in repository but in its garage page | 20:31 |
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| EgS | cool, always wanted to test a webkit based browser on the n810 | 20:31 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | where i can complain to nokia about hardware bug ? | 20:32 |
| lcuk | whats up with it? | 20:32 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | lcuk: http://khertan.net/ first post | 20:33 |
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| lcuk | is that a problem of NIT or of your card? | 20:34 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810_9: there should be a temperature range somewhere in the manual probably | 20:34 |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | seems to be nit ... as the card work in an other device | 20:35 |
| lcuk | i would personally complain to GOD, -18 is outside MY operating temperature | 20:35 |
| lcuk | when it warmed up? | 20:35 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | i work in my car audio system at -20 | 20:35 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | s\i\it | 20:36 |
| lcuk | was the filesystem corrupted or just the file? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810_9: and some SD cards cannot take that low operating temperatures it seems | 20:37 |
| lcuk | cos i wouldv thought if it was bad filesystem it wouldnt magically fix itself | 20:37 |
| * Stskeeps takes time to actually read the tablet manual.. | 20:38 | |
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| Khertan_n810_9 | ping ? | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | pong | 20:43 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | thx | 20:43 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | :) | 20:43 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: so how did it go with the kernel? | 20:43 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | yep but warning user that temp is too low could be a good thing | 20:43 |
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| lcuk | i wouldv thought the user would know its too cold, when your testes rise back into your body you should take that as your warning | 20:44 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | instead of let s user crashed is precious unsaved source file | 20:44 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | s/is/his | 20:44 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810_9: are you talking of internal SD card, or an external one? | 20:45 |
| lcuk | Khertan, overriding a daily backup without warning is just as bad | 20:45 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | when there is no wind ... i don t see difference between -5 and -20 | 20:45 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | external one | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so it's the external cards fault probably | 20:45 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | lcuk: yep | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | and those don't have temperature measure inside them :P | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | (i believe) | 20:45 |
| lcuk | i still dont see how yow it was only the file itself that was corrupt and not the filesystem | 20:46 |
| Khertan_n810_9 | stskeeps nope the card work in other device at lower temp | 20:46 |
| lcuk | did you modify the file when you were out and about, or did it just randomly corrupt itself whilst walking without touching it or modifying it | 20:46 |
| sisto | is there an eclipse for maemo? | 20:46 |
| lcuk | ie, can you be sure it was temp that corrupted it | 20:47 |
| sisto | 8) | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | sisto: you mean for developing for maemo, or on the tablet | 20:47 |
| sisto | on the tablet 8) | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | not sure you'd want to :P | 20:47 |
| lcuk | sisto, if you hold up the nokia to the sun im sure it will cause an eclipse | 20:47 |
| sisto | lcuk: lol | 20:47 |
| lcuk | sisto, not really though, eclipse is java isnt it? | 20:47 |
| sisto | yup | 20:47 |
| lcuk | then no | 20:48 |
| sisto | there's no jre for arm? | 20:48 |
| sisto | or jdk | 20:48 |
| lcuk | java support isnt that great and anyway, its a mammoth program | 20:48 |
| sisto | true | 20:48 |
| sisto | true | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | sisto: you can get pretty far with vim though .. :> | 20:48 |
| lcuk | why ojn earth would you want such a monster in there anyway? | 20:48 |
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| sisto | i could program java with vim... but is there a jdk for maemo for compiling? | 20:49 |
| lcuk | sisto, and dont think im just dismissing you - i do *all* dev directly on tablet using gcc, khertan does dev on tablet with a highlighting multi language mini ide | 20:49 |
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| * lcuk needs liqed working - now i have multi colored fonts maybe i can... | 20:49 | |
| lcuk | mmm | 20:49 |
| sisto | i don't really need it... i'm just checking whether it can be done 8) | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | sisto: i'd look at python and C instead though | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | and jdk doesnt matter if its on-tablet or through ssh on a linux place other places :) | 20:50 |
| lcuk | of course it can be done, you can install dosbox, load up win 95, install vmware load an image of linux and then run eclipse iwthin that | 20:50 |
| lcuk | but its not gonna be much of a decent workflow | 20:51 |
| sisto | sounds fun 8) | 20:51 |
| sisto | challenging | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | sisto: maybe it's better if you explain what you'd like to do specifically? | 20:51 |
| sisto | i don't really need it... i'm just checking whether it can be done | 20:51 |
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| sisto | :P | 20:51 |
| sisto | just for the fun of it | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | anything is possible, just more or less slowly | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:52 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, is there a jvm for mer? | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i actually think so | 20:52 |
| lcuk | :) good | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | se | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | c | 20:52 |
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| sisto | nice | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/armel/cacao-oj6-jdk | 20:52 |
| lcuk | heh | 20:53 |
| lcuk | obviously doesnt matter to me :P | 20:53 |
| sisto | i know one thing would be usefull for me that runs on java | 20:53 |
| sisto | i have a swing app | 20:54 |
| sisto | which i would like to run on the tablet if possible | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | there's no promise it will run smoothly | 20:54 |
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| Stskeeps | it is a 400mhz box afterall | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | without a good JIT, i thin | 20:54 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:54 |
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| sisto | cacao is a jvm? | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:56 |
| sisto | the app won't run though | 20:56 |
| sisto | it uses native libraries | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | well then it won't run then :P | 20:57 |
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| sisto | :( | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | what native libraries? | 20:57 |
| sisto | let me check | 20:57 |
| sisto | this is the app http://passwordsafe.sourceforge.net/ | 20:58 |
| sisto | let me check what are the libraries | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | you can really get similar of those applications easily on tablet.. | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | or fairly easy to make | 20:58 |
| lcuk | sisto, yeah, that needs windows xp on the tablet | 20:58 |
| lcuk | gonna be tough | 20:59 |
| sisto | there's a java version | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | and isn't it kinda against the java philosophy to demand native libraries? :P | 20:59 |
| lcuk | i demand native java | 20:59 |
| sisto | sure | 20:59 |
| lcuk | with sugar and milk | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | coffee | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | good idea | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | brb | 20:59 |
| RST38h | Sts: happens all the time | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i know | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | i have been coding java applications at some point too :P | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | not a fan | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, pong? | 21:01 |
| sisto | here are the libraries that come with it: commons-logging.jar libcairo-swt.so libswt-atk-gtk-3232.so libswt-awt-gtk-3232.so libswt-cairo-gtk-3232.solibswt-glx-gtk-3232.so libswt-gnome-gtk-3232.so libswt-gtk-3232.so libswt-mozilla-gcc3-gtk-3232.so libswt-mozilla-gtk-3232.so libswt-pi-gtk-3232.so | 21:02 |
| sisto | the .so extension makes it sound like a native library to me | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | sisto: ah, just swt | 21:03 |
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| Stskeeps | sisto: honestly, i have no clue if it would run, but, for a password safe, i'm sure there's alternatives. | 21:03 |
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| sisto | for sure... i'll probably end up migrating to an alternative :) | 21:03 |
| sisto | i haven't purchased my n810 yet though, i'm just investigating ahead of time | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | besides the fact it's "not x86", it is a very versatile device. | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | can run quite a lot of different things, maemo, ubuntu, etc | 21:05 |
| sisto | is there a benefit in changing to debian / ubuntu / android etc? | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | depends for what you want to use it for | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | some things are easier in ubuntu, and some things are more power saving in maemo, etc | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | there's always pros and cons | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | and you can switch between the OS'es, multiboot | 21:07 |
| sisto | my main uses will probably be pda stuff, game device, spreadsheet, text editor/notes | 21:07 |
| sisto | i probably can do it all on maemo | 21:07 |
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| Stskeeps | PIM is 'interesting' but that's that :P | 21:08 |
| sisto | are the other OSs compatible with touch input and the keyboard? | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, mostly, i think :P | 21:09 |
| * Stskeeps only has a n800 and he can use them.. :P | 21:09 | |
| sisto | i guess they must have been made specially for the device | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | not really | 21:09 |
| lcuk | yeah, linux was designed with the n8x0 series in mind | 21:09 |
| lcuk | linus was such a visionary | 21:09 |
| sisto | lcuk: sure that's exactly what i meant lol | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | it's typically the distro for the processor with minimal tablet changes | 21:10 |
| lcuk | sisto, as long as there are valid drivers for the hardware its usable, since the touch interface is pretty generic thats a fairly easy one, whether or not the OS you choose uses that input as well as maemo is another matter | 21:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan, I'm sorry it sucks so much where you're using your tablet. :P | 21:11 |
| sisto | but does ubuntu use the full desktop on the n810? cause that uses 1 gb of ram on my desktop pc | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | sisto: hehe, which is why some of us work on Mer :) | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | which is ubuntu with the maemo platform on top | 21:12 |
| sisto | Mer = maemo? | 21:12 |
| sisto | ooooooooooh | 21:12 |
| sisto | ok | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | ~mer | 21:12 |
| infobot | rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint | 21:12 |
| lcuk | sisto, maemo has been specifically written to date for the nokia tablets, mer is a rebuild of ubuntu (by stskeeps and co..) which is sane and logical and having its pieces carefully considered | 21:13 |
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| Stskeeps | carefully? :P | 21:13 |
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| * Stskeeps pokes his shot class for another refill | 21:13 | |
| Stskeeps | glass | 21:13 |
| lcuk | very carefully :) | 21:13 |
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| * lcuk raises shot glass | 21:13 | |
| lcuk | damn you werent toasting | 21:14 |
| * lcuk fills up ur glass | 21:14 | |
| lcuk | get khertan to get you some ice | 21:14 |
| glass | bang | 21:14 |
| sisto | has anyone tried pairing their n8x0 device with a 3g phone to use dialup internet? | 21:14 |
| lcuk | yeah lots do | 21:14 |
| bstock | sisto: yeah it's really common | 21:14 |
| sisto | no i meant here in the chat room | 21:15 |
| lcuk | yeah, lots do | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | sisto: i do that daily | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | the OS has built in support for tethering | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | and does it quite well | 21:15 |
| bstock | usually just select your carrier, pair your phone, and you're set | 21:15 |
| sisto | Stskeeps: but doesn't it eat your battery like a bitch? | 21:15 |
| bstock | not too bad, faster then normal sure | 21:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | sisto, on the phone | 21:15 |
| lcuk | sisto, bluetooth is light on the battery | 21:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not really much more than WiFi on the tablet. | 21:15 |
| sisto | ok :) | 21:15 |
| lcuk | lighter than wifi i think | 21:16 |
| sisto | sounds very usefull | 21:16 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, bluetooth is heavier than wifi? | 21:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, in-use I get worse battery life tethering to Bluetooth than with WiFi | 21:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not to say that it wouldn't be a factor of my phone or use-case. | 21:17 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, the council mail is already setup ? | 21:17 |
| sisto | most people leave bluetooth on all the time on their phones and it doesn't eat too much battery | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, yes. | 21:17 |
| lcuk | yeah GeneralAntilles | 21:17 |
| lcuk | sisto, leaving it on and actively using it are 2 different things | 21:17 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, is council@maemo.org ? | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, yes. | 21:17 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, thanks | 21:17 |
| lcuk | i can idle my car for about a fortnight, but if i drive down the motorway it lasts a few hours | 21:18 |
| lcuk | is that council mailing list public? | 21:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it forwards to the Council member's addresses, so, no. | 21:18 |
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| mrweasel | hello everybody. i have a short question: does anybody know how to change the window manager of deblet? currently i'm running xfce but would like to try lxde, but can't find the proper startup script... :/ | 21:20 |
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| * GeneralAntilles hadn't realized WebOS was Linux-based. | 21:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Could they have thought up a worse name? | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: is gdm installed? | 21:22 |
| RST38h | yes. | 21:23 |
| RST38h | NOS for example | 21:23 |
| mrweasel | no, don't think so | 21:23 |
| RST38h | or POS | 21:23 |
| mrweasel | on startup it switches directly from the console to xfce | 21:23 |
| RST38h | or even XOS, based on the apparent heritage | 21:23 |
| RST38h | mrweasel: grep xfce ~/.* | 21:24 |
| wazd | CarrotOS | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, is bc4fw.bin a 770 only thing? | 21:26 |
| mrweasel | RST38h: nothing but entries from .xsession-errors | 21:27 |
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| RST38h | all righty. do the same in /etc | 21:28 |
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| mrweasel | also nothing, should i do recursive ? | 21:29 |
| RST38h | of course | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: it kinda wonders me you have XFCE, because i haven't had that version for quite a while.. | 21:30 |
| RST38h | it should be in .xinitrc or .startxrc | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | sure it's deblet and not beta3? | 21:30 |
| RST38h | even with gdm, I guess... | 21:30 |
| mrweasel | its not in .xinitrc because i searched all of that files... | 21:31 |
| * RST38h is once again amazed how helpless most Linux forums are =( | 21:31 | |
| RST38h | mrweasel: what is in your .xinitrc? Could you paste it to pastebin? | 21:31 |
| mrweasel | Stskeeps: I think so, I also had beta3 before | 21:32 |
| mrweasel | installed it from http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet | 21:32 |
| mrweasel | but that has been in october or so | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, long ago :P | 21:33 |
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| mrweasel | I've read all the forum threads.. found something like /usr/bin/xpice but that does not exist, and there is only a startup script that runs startx | 21:34 |
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| RST38h | mrweasel: there is also .xsession to check | 21:35 |
| mrweasel | but the only entry in xinitrc in /etc/X11/xinitrc is ./etc/X11/Xsession | 21:35 |
| RST38h | Aha, so it basicalle default to Xsession | 21:35 |
| RST38h | What is in Xsession? | 21:35 |
| RST38h | defaults | 21:35 |
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| mrweasel | yes seems to be defaults.. does some things then initializes some variables with paths and files.. but i've also checked all of these | 21:37 |
| mrweasel | no xfce entry there | 21:38 |
| RST38h | Anything else in /etc/X11 or /etc/gdm ? | 21:38 |
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| mrweasel | /etc/gdm does not exist, and in /etc/X11 there are some additional folders ./xinit ./Xresources ./Xsession.d ./xkb ./fonts ./app-defaults | 21:40 |
| mrweasel | but i've looked there already... no luck | 21:41 |
| mrweasel | Stskeeps: what changed since october ? | 21:41 |
| mrweasel | is it using lxde by default now ? | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | but i'm not even sure it bootstraps :P | 21:42 |
| mrweasel | and gdm too ? | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | think so | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | we're working on Mer these days so :P | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: ping? | 21:43 |
| mrweasel | i found lxde for my desktop pc last week and was quite amazed, so i thought i could simply try it on the tablet.. not that easy as i've thought | 21:44 |
| mrweasel | it bugs me that i can't even find the script that chooses xfce to be the wm | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | rc.local or update-alternatives, possibly | 21:45 |
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| mrweasel | it's not rc.local, but whats update-alternatives? | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: there's also an ubuntu guide on iTT | 21:45 |
| GAN800 | pong | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | lxde should be easy based on that | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_firmware_image_distribution (First request) | 21:45 |
| mrweasel | i've seen that, but i don't consider ubuntu a good idea on the tablet.. =) | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: just as easy and good as debian, really | 21:46 |
| mrweasel | yes easy | 21:46 |
| mrweasel | but fast? | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | its even more optimized for these, so | 21:46 |
| mrweasel | this ubuntu thing is quite new, isn't it ? | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but based on the Mer experiences, so | 21:47 |
| mrweasel | i've read a lot of that tablet stuff since i got it in october.. it's amazing that these people i always read about really "exist" here on irc | 21:48 |
| mrweasel | =) | 21:48 |
| mrweasel | Stskeeps: so you don't have any clue where to find that xfce startup thing ? | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: can you grep for a 'startx' in /etc/init.d/* ? | 21:50 |
| mrweasel | i remember that there is a ./x-session that does it | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, ok, so, apt-get away xfce (purge the packages) and apt-get install lxde | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | i believe | 21:51 |
| mrweasel | "su - -c "startx -- $XSERVERARGS" $USERNAME & | 21:52 |
| mrweasel | but how does startx know which wm to choose ? | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | /etc/alternatives i think | 21:52 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN800: and it's generally just if you think that's a fair start to propose to tread the waters | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | as we will not get around this in any kind of community edition | 21:52 |
| mrweasel | Stskeeps: yeah! that's it ! great thank you! | 21:52 |
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| mrweasel | another thing: when i do "apt-get install lxde" it also pulls xserver-xephyr.. i guess i don't need that? | 21:54 |
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| Stskeeps | there's a lxde-core or something.. | 21:54 |
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| mrweasel | okay, got it.. i'll give it a try, hope it works... | 21:57 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 22:13 | |
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| lcuk | \o/ yesss i fixed a long standing bug | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | You gave it a chair? | 22:19 |
| lcuk | sortof | 22:19 |
| lcuk | its just tiny minor thing but its important it works :) | 22:20 |
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| sisto | which bug? | 22:20 |
| sisto | link? | 22:20 |
| lcuk | its just in my app :) release will be "soon" | 22:21 |
| sisto | what does it do? | 22:21 |
| sisto | i mean... it's fine if it doesn't do anything | 22:22 |
| lcuk | lots of pretty stuff :) and its a memory aid | 22:22 |
| sisto | no one said it has to | 22:22 |
| lcuk | and a book reader | 22:22 |
| sisto | :) | 22:22 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ http://liqbase.net/ | 22:23 |
| mrweasel | and i hope it will be also a calendar soon? i'm running without a calendar since new year... =) | 22:23 |
| mrweasel | ;) | 22:23 |
| lcuk | mrweasel, :) | 22:23 |
| sisto | it does all sorts of things :) | 22:24 |
| lcuk | but im not a calendar man, i might be able to make a UI for one which "works" but whoever could I find that knows how calendar api works? | 22:24 |
| lcuk | yes sisto, i have an idea for how a UI should work, it seems to sit nicely on the tablets | 22:25 |
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| mrweasel | i'm good with dates above the notes in graffiti view or something like that.. could also write a date on 30 new sketches for the next month .. hmm =) | 22:26 |
| mrweasel | oh wait.. next month is feburary.. then 28 will be fine :) | 22:26 |
| sisto | february 30th lol | 22:27 |
| sisto | ops | 22:27 |
| lcuk | mrweasel, dont worry about that (cal usually has 35 boxes..) there will be a decent example included for someone to have a go at building from | 22:27 |
| mrweasel | great! | 22:27 |
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| mrweasel | i like the way tablet applications get developed | 22:28 |
| sisto | i have started to use google calendar | 22:28 |
| sisto | for my reminders | 22:28 |
| sisto | i like the fact that it emails me | 22:28 |
| lcuk | khertan is writing a nice calendar app, he keeps moaning about lack of ui | 22:28 |
| sisto | because i can leave the unread message in my inbox until i can attend to it | 22:28 |
| sisto | i guess that is my gripe with device calendars... once u close it it's gone | 22:29 |
| sisto | you can make the notification stick around | 22:29 |
| sisto | *you can't | 22:29 |
| lcuk | why not? | 22:30 |
| sisto | because i have an imate jam and that's how it works... i haven't tried other devices | 22:30 |
| lcuk | if it was a desktop applet or had a notification icon its available all the time | 22:30 |
| sisto | but once i click on it it's gone | 22:30 |
| lcuk | so if you accidentally click on something it vanishes forever? | 22:31 |
| sisto | this is how it goes | 22:31 |
| sisto | i set up the appointment | 22:31 |
| sisto | the date comes and a notification pops up | 22:31 |
| sisto | i click on it | 22:31 |
| sisto | the notification is gone | 22:31 |
| sisto | but the appointment stays on the calendar | 22:31 |
| sisto | but donesn't notify me again | 22:32 |
| lcuk | meh | 22:32 |
| sisto | i would like the notification to stay on the tray area | 22:32 |
| lcuk | technically its done its job | 22:32 |
| sisto | yeah | 22:32 |
| mrweasel | if everything i accidentially click on would vanish forever... omg ;) | 22:32 |
| lcuk | i thought you meant the cal entry had gone | 22:32 |
| sisto | but that's why i use google calendar | 22:32 |
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| sisto | because it sends me an email | 22:32 |
| sisto | and the email stays on the inbox till i erase it | 22:32 |
| lcuk | lol mrweasel you would be a eunuch soon then | 22:33 |
| sisto | i can read it again and i will see it every time i read my email | 22:33 |
| lcuk | but you wont know if you missed the event | 22:33 |
| sisto | i guess i have different needs :) | 22:33 |
| mrweasel | lol | 22:34 |
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| sisto | In my opinion the notification should have two buttons... A dismiss button would close the notification. An ok button will make it stick around. I can always click on dismiss later if I'm done with it. | 22:36 |
| lcuk | omg , my n810 is making noises at me | 22:36 |
| sisto | :O | 22:36 |
| lcuk | or accidentally | 22:36 |
| mrweasel | did you "accidentally" start that tricorder app ? | 22:36 |
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| lcuk | heh no, i am just playing with esound library (same thing boxar (from jagernot) uses) | 22:37 |
| sisto | but if it happens accidentally i would know cause i'm right there... i just don't want to accidentally forget about the notification | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: so, any comments or can i put another post out in the thread on community firmware images, pointing to it, so quim&co can start brewing on it? | 22:37 |
| sisto | the problem is I usually just close the notification and immediately forget about it | 22:38 |
| sisto | that's how bad my memory is | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, looks good to me. | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: thanks :) | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though it should be "an initfs" | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, one of those things my english teacher never taught me correctly.. :P | 22:38 |
| lcuk | sisto, my short term memory is aweful :) liqbase has given it back to me | 22:39 |
| sisto | that makes me remember what happened to me just yesterday | 22:39 |
| sisto | i lost my sunglasses because of my short term memory | 22:40 |
| sisto | i layed them down on the bus seat | 22:40 |
| sisto | and when I left I completely forgot about them | 22:40 |
| lcuk | might not be best idea to get expensive handheld technology | 22:40 |
| sisto | haha | 22:40 |
| lcuk | or get a lanyard | 22:40 |
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| sisto | good idea | 22:41 |
| lcuk | would be nice to have a pair of apps on both phone and tablet and when either loses bluetooth with the other it cries like a baby | 22:41 |
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| sisto | genious | 22:41 |
| mrweasel | ever sat in front of a gdm login screen, not being able to login because you can't type all the characters contained in your password? :/ | 22:42 |
| lcuk | not really, i'd end up taking the tablet but i'll leave the kids on the bus | 22:42 |
| housetier | damn we have to send nokia an overdue notice :\ | 22:42 |
| housetier | not very cool, but we need the money desperately | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | housetier, Nokia seems to be pretty bad at paying in a reasonable amount of time. :/ | 22:43 |
| lcuk | :( housetier | 22:43 |
| housetier | we know that now as well ;\ | 22:43 |
| lcuk | i gather you have been in contact with the contacts who arranged the summit | 22:44 |
| housetier | yes, I kept reminding as I was being reminded by our cash master | 22:44 |
| sisto | what's all this money talk | 22:45 |
| sisto | ? | 22:45 |
| housetier | sisto, c-base hosted the maemo-summit last year | 22:45 |
| sisto | and nokia pays for it? | 22:45 |
| housetier | it was a great event, really really good. but so far nokia has only paid an advance of 30% | 22:46 |
| housetier | and since c-base is notoriously short on funds this really hurts us | 22:46 |
| housetier | nontheless I hope we can host the next summit as well :) | 22:46 |
| housetier | it just went so well | 22:47 |
| mrweasel | Stskeeps: lxde now works like a charm, thanks again | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: always | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: but beware i'm not continuing to work on deblet | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | which means you should probably mirror the repository for yourself for future reference in case i loose it at some point :P | 22:49 |
| mrweasel | isn't everything i need by now coming directly from the debian repros ? | 22:49 |
| sisto | lunch looks good https://wiki.maemo.org/images/7/7d/MaemoSummit_catering.jpg | 22:49 |
| mrweasel | if i accidentally trash that system i'm surely moving to some more recent.. but i like that debian ... if only to impress my friends =) | 22:50 |
| mrweasel | and i'm using it as the system for that chroot thing instead of easy debian also.... | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | mrweasel: depends if you have old or new installer, hmm.. | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | can you check if you have packages.tspre.org in your sources list? | 22:51 |
| mrweasel | ne | 22:51 |
| mrweasel | no | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | ah, old version | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | where the packages are in your actual setup | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | and no, not all of it is from debian repos, if so, it would have been debian, not deblet ;) | 22:52 |
| mrweasel | yes of course, but everything i sould eventually need to install now | 22:52 |
| mrweasel | so as long as i'm not reinstalling everything will be fine | 22:55 |
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| giridhari | Anyone know where to find hildon-libs0? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | not entirely sure, but isn't that just libhildon? | 22:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, get provint to push to Extras-devel. | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_firmware_image_distribution <- am i missing anything in this list? | 23:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, I'm sure he doesn't need me to convince him... | 23:01 |
| giridhari | pan needs hildon-libs0 | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | sure you didn't get one for gregale or something, giridhari ? | 23:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, well, make sure he uses Maemo-Display-Name and a purty icon. :P | 23:01 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | *grin* | 23:01 |
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| giridhari | no pan is for chinook, I run diablo, maemo-hackers had hildon-libs0 in mistral I read but now it is missing | 23:03 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, I assume you're using 2.6.21 so why do you want stlc45xx-cal? | 23:04 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: for the purpose we don't want to use 2.6.21 anymore we might as well ask early | 23:10 |
| Stskeeps | if they allow us to distribute wlan-cal, it'd be idiotic not to be able to distribute stlc45xx-cal too .. | 23:10 |
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| Stskeeps | right, post sent off | 23:12 |
| Stskeeps | let's see what happens :) | 23:13 |
| RST38h | Hehe, iPhone wannabe: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgetmobile.com/media/2009/01/palm_box000ed.jpg | 23:13 |
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| RST38h | ~curse Freescale for lying about its chip stability | 23:19 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Freescale for lying about its chip stability ! | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | infobot's curses suck | 23:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I wonder if we can teach it our own... | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | infobot: ~curse? | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~help curse | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | infobot: what is ~curse? | 23:21 |
| infobot | Stskeeps: what are you talking about? | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | meh | 23:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | infobot, help curse | 23:22 |
| RST38h | The camels curse has been borrowed from Angband. | 23:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | infobot, speak mother fucker | 23:22 |
| sisto | that palm looks nice | 23:23 |
| sisto | RST38h | 23:23 |
| * sisto is done at work... leaving now | 23:24 | |
| sisto | bye | 23:24 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders if http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/10/nokia-ad-open.jpg can be converted into a wallpaper or something like that. | 23:24 | |
| RST38h | Bus error. Segmentation fault. Segmentation fault. Kernel panic. | 23:24 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: "keel over and die"? :P | 23:25 |
| RST38h | I think it wants to tell me something. | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:25 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, looking at symbian signed I find that poster full of hypocrisy... | 23:25 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: yeah, of course | 23:26 |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: "don't youch me you evil competitor!" :P | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: but for tablets it makes sense | 23:26 |
| * b-man is now installing ubuntu on his win98 computer... | 23:26 | |
| RST38h | suihkulokki: I am not its competitor, I am its master | 23:26 |
| RST38h | And nothing tells it so as raising its core voltage... | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: hehe, what CPU? | 23:27 |
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| b-man | intel pentium 3 | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | mm, could probably have ran xp though :) | 23:27 |
| b-man | with 128mb of ram :P | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, ok. | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: can it boot from usb? | 23:28 |
| * qwerty12_N800 ran xp on a p3 with 128mb ram | 23:28 | |
| b-man | i'm using a live cd i burned | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:29 |
| b-man | installer is sllllow.... :p | 23:29 |
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| b-man | i just hope ubuntu-desktop is not too horibly slow, perhaps i shuld use swap :) | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | there's always xubuntu | 23:31 |
| b-man | yah ;) | 23:31 |
| lcuk | if you have a casio watch you could try to rig up something to use the ram in there | 23:31 |
| * b-man gos and checks progress with installer | 23:31 | |
| b-man | i'll be back, i need to help shovel some snow (were haveing a huge snowstorm atm) | 23:33 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:33 |
| lcuk | shovelling snow :: faster than watching linux install | 23:35 |
| lcuk | heh @ koos on the mailing list, im sure he thinks khertan is a n00b | 23:36 |
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| lcuk | on the tablet, if the browserd is running at 183M thats a little high and suggests a leak doesnt it | 23:54 |
| lcuk | with only one page open currently | 23:55 |
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