IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-10-10

zaplike always, DSPs are hard to program00:00
lardmanlcuk: yep that's the omap2420, on the omap3 the iva is the dsp00:00
zapTI has a optimizing C compiler though that parallelise computations; I'm not sure though if it's free00:00
lcukyes lardman, but we have the ISP as well now00:01
lardmanlcuk: though I see what you say about a separate ISP + IVA/DSP00:01
RST38hlardman: what about the second DSP box at that diaram?00:01
lcuki think they realised no1 was using the IVA on the omap2 ;)00:01
zapthe problem with IVA is that it's absolutely undocumented00:01
zapand TI64xx seems well documented00:01
lardmanlcuk: I'm sure we would have tried if they'd given us a clue hey? :)00:01
lcukyes zap, theres nothing about it, and it had lots of promise00:01
zapin fact, TI has opened a lot of info on OMAP35xx00:01
RST38hzap: it is ARM7. What is there to document other than how to restart it and share data with it?00:01
lcukespecially with the graphical problems we have on 8x000:01
zapRST38h: you said it00:02
zapRST38h: you don't even know how to execute a NOP on it00:02
lardmanRST38h: I thought it was ARM9...?00:02
lcukits arm0 :(00:02
RST38hlardman: I heard different opinions on the subject =)00:02
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lcukor simply 'armless :D00:02
zapwhatever is it, it's useless undocumented :)00:02
lardmanyeah, me too00:02
BULLE_guess you guys can look at the openpandora to get omap3 info00:04
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GeneralAntillesBULLE_, why in the world would you look at the Pandora?00:04
GeneralAntillesJust go straight to the source. . . .00:05
lcukor rather the binary blob ;)00:05
lardmanhmm, interesting, bit.c in libmad defines CHAR_BIT, that might be good00:05
bipolarhas anyone gotten Genesis Sync for SyncEvolution installed and working?00:06
lcukthanks GeneralAntilles :)00:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk, the PowerVR driver isn't publicly available yet. ;)00:06
lcukyou have to wonder: as a chip designer how much you would change between one revision and the next.00:07
GeneralAntillesWhat revision?00:08
lcukany, think of most of your normal code, you dont just rewrite the whole thing from scratch.  i wonder how much hacking it would take to try to fire up the pvr using the newer driver when it comes out00:08
GeneralAntillesI've answered that question before00:09
GeneralAntillesThey're not remotely similar00:09
GeneralAntillesSXG vs MBX00:09
GeneralAntillesWe can even use the OMAP2430 driver to get the OMAP2420's PowerVR going.00:10
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: We can't even use the OMAP2430 driver to get the OMAP2420's PowerVR going.00:10
RST38hlcuk: you are making a little mistake ;)00:10
* lcuk doesnt mind making mistakes :)00:10
RST38hlcuk: Most ARM-based SoC designs are not really designed in one place. Instead, they are combined from multiple IP blocks00:10
RST38hlcuk: So, these guys do not have to continue with OAP2 design. They can just take a different set of blocks, glu them together, and this will be OMAP300:11
lcukyes, but you don't just throw away all the code or layout or interface designs just because its new.  GeneralAntilles has already given biggest reason this would fail so its ok, but was just a ponderment00:11
RST38hSome things do stay the same though, mainly because there are formal and informal standards in ARM-based design00:12
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Stskeeps~curse sb200:20
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sb2 !00:20
lardmanlcuk: there's actually some source floating about for the SGX so I see on the forum00:20
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GAN800lardman, you see Quim's thread on -developers?00:21
GAN800Need to get Nokia to throw some manpower behind the barcode reader.00:22
lardmanlcuk: isp looks like it's just a camera interface00:22
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lardmanwhich can do things like jpeg compression00:23
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lardmanGAN800: not sure, will check now00:23
lardmansoftware prime time?00:23
lcukResizer is a HW block in Camera ISP which is responsible for image downscaling and upscaling00:24
lcukPreview is a HW block in Camera ISP which is responsible for image processing and color conversion.00:24
lcuk3A is a HW block in Camera ISP which is responsible for collecting image statistics that can be used by other algorithms00:24
lcukall useful things :)00:24
lcukand that as well lardman00:25
solmumahaGeneralAntilles: have time to test my fix?00:25
lardmanyeah, depends whether it's hooked directly to the camera input though00:25
lcukit appears to be feedable from multiple sources00:25
GAN800Not at the moment.00:25
lcukeither way, as with anything else :) i just want it working, and looking at the notes drivers will be available for it00:26
solmumahamaybe i should ask help from itt :s00:26
solmumahai just had the worst task a man can imagine00:28
lcuksolmumaha, whats the problem?00:28
solmumahai'd like people to test my app a bit before releasing it00:28
lcukon the device?00:28
lcukand what does it do00:29
solmumahait's a server/client based video streaming app00:29
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lcukcool, gimme a mo and count me in00:29
lcuki was gonna look at playing with something like this00:29
solmumahait's not pretty but should somewhat work00:30
lcukheh :) proof of concept is better than nothing00:30
solmumahabut it's not for windows00:30
lcukliqbase is entirely poc00:30
lcukfor maemo i hope00:30
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solmumahayes, but server only works on linux/bsd/os x00:31
lcukive got 2 n810s00:31
lcukthat should work?00:31
solmumahawhat os you have on desktop?00:31
lcukcant one of my 810s be server?00:31
solmumahano, sorry00:32
* lcuk does everything else on his 810900:32
lcukwhats missing from it?00:32
lardmanlcuk: it's a sign, install Linux! ;)00:32
solmumahavlc 0.9 and juice to transcode video :)00:32
lcukoooer missus00:32
lcuklardman, but but but but but i dont wanna00:33
* lcuk huggles xp00:33
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solmumahayes, it allows you to play videos from your desktop machine like they are local00:33
lcukhey, hang on ill fire up the laptop00:33
lcukthats got ubuntu on it00:33
lcuki hate that laptop now00:33
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solmumahasupports seeking and all00:33
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lcukahhh i thought it would stream video from camera00:34
* lcuk has a plan for doing just that00:34
lcukso solmumaha could i run your server within vmware if its so configured00:34
lcukok, thats easy00:35
solmumahaif your tablet can connect to it00:35
lcukyes, i send my source to it to get it to build packages for me00:35
lcukyer, but i prefer to wear a jacket00:36
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solmumahak, add deb hardy main to apt00:36
solmumahaand apt-get install ruby vlc00:37
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solmumahaafter apt-get update of course :)00:37
derfGAN800: What -developers thread?00:37
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lcukderf "Pushing community software to prime time"00:38
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lardmanderf: you tested on device yet?00:39
derfMust not be archived yet.00:40
derflardman: Working on it right now.00:40
lardmanderf: it's on -community actually00:40
derfOh, that would explain why I can't find it.00:40
lcukdamn!  solmumaha have a different problem, and it might be more convoluted to get running - whilst ive got lan access vmware cant get out into the wide world, ill have a bit of a hack at it, but i dont wanna try too much incase i make problem worse00:42
lcukbut where do i get your n8x0 client so if i get it working i can test it00:43
solmumahai wrote a sucky page for it:
lcukthats about 1000000x less sucky than mine ;)00:43
lcuk :P00:44
* lcuk adds a link to the .deb00:44
lcukand src00:44
solmumahahaha, maybe a fraction worse00:44
solmumahamy page validates without the youtube video :p00:44
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solmumahait should be quite user-friendly after you get all dependencies installed00:46
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lcuksolmumaha, that looks quite cool - ive saved link  if i get the laptop fired up ill try again from there00:53
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lcukcyas later folks00:55
solmumahaanyone know of licenses btw? can i use bsd license with gpl stuff?00:57
mgedminyou can combine bsd and gpl stuff if you publish the result under gpl00:58
solmumahawhat if my app is bsd and it uses gpl icons?00:58
solmumahai haven't made changes to gpl stuff00:59
mgedminshould not be a problem, as long as you don't include the gpl bits into your source or link them into your binary...00:59
solmumahait's written in ruby so i'm not linking to anything and i'm giving credit to gpl authors01:00
solmumahamaybe it would be easier to just change it to gpl, i really don't care about it01:01
solmumahabsd is just so much shorter01:03
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lardmannight all01:12
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moontigerwho wrote liqbase??01:16
lcukme :)01:16
crashanddiemoontiger, lcuk01:16
crashanddiehow the fuck did you miss it?01:17
crashanddieThe YouTube videos are by lcuk01:17
crashanddiethe screen yells "Gary Birket"01:17
crashanddieand the main screen says "contact lcuk on #maemo"01:17
crashanddiehell, even error messages tell you to contact him01:17
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lcukactually youtube is lcukmaemo01:18
* lcuk is pissin his sides01:18
* lcuk raises a beer to seb01:18
moontigerim busy with other stuff so i just asked .... put your knickers back on01:18
* lcuk does01:19
lcukwhy do you ask?01:19
* lcuk fears he has blown up his machien 01:19
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crashanddielcuk, i'm outa beer :(01:19
moontigerbecause i wanted to say i own the patents on that stuff so im going to sue you :)~01:19
lcuknot for lone01:19
moontigerreally i wanted to say fukin A ... it looks awesome01:19
lcukyes moontiger, it does and it feels good to use it as well01:20
moontigeris it installable now?01:20
lcukfind a way for me to develop it further and i will have you babies :)01:20
moontigeror still in dev?01:20
lcukyes, theres a deb01:20
crashanddielcuk.pride -= 10;01:20
lcukits installable, but not yet in extras01:20
moontigeryou will have my babies??01:20
* moontiger ponders that01:20
crashanddieyou're not allowed to ask01:21
crashanddieI'm in line first01:21
moontigerlcuk ... u can have babies?01:21
lcuki can do many things for the right money01:21
* moontiger laughs01:21
moontigerok cos we have completely the wrong bits for you to have my babies01:22
moontigerbut with enough money i guess all is possible01:22
lcukim sure we can buy a womb somewhere, either that or theres one going unused inside my n810 at the moment01:22
* moontiger laughs01:22
lcukthe test .deb is available on here01:23
moontigerwhat does it use for storage?01:23
lcukflat files01:23
moontigerliqbase ... not the womb01:23
moontigerand you read them into a bitmap and scroll that?01:23
lcukno, live drawing01:23
lcukyeah :) 100% live01:23
moontigerfrom stroke files?01:24
lcukscrollable resizable vector graphics01:24
crashanddiehe stores every point :)01:24
moontigeruh huh01:24
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crashanddieoh, btw, lcuk01:24
lcukthe stamp tool rules :)01:24
moontigerdoesnt he need to store sub-points for sub-pixel rendering?01:24
crashanddielcuk, test area, you know how it displays images are they are loaded?01:24
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lcukmoontiger, unfortunately i store points at display resolution, however i could use the native touchsensor resolution which is a lot higher01:25
moontigeri was kidding01:25
moontigerpoints would be fine01:25
crashanddielcuk, should have the same for the wall01:25
lcukim also seriously considering storing everything at 22500dpi and doing full scaling at runtime01:26
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lcuk(theres a bug at present where loading a sketch saved at 800*480 into editor on 400*240 looks too big01:26
lcukcrashanddie, what do you mean the wall?01:26
lcuksome what01:26
crashanddiesketch wall01:26
lcukyeah, do what to it?01:26
crashanddiehave progressive loading01:27
lcukit does01:27
lcukyou just dont notice it cos you only have a few sketches01:27
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lcukit kills me cos i cant kinetic for ~20 seconds01:27
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lcuki cry and want to fix it01:27
lcukthe amount of bright red sketches ive got saying "fix lazyload" is shocking :)01:28
lcukbut thats for another day, i think im gonna change the location of the lazyloading so that it doesnt start over again when i close graffiti01:29
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moontigernice work lcuk ... really01:39
moontigerwell done01:39
lcuk:) thanks01:39
moontigerwritten in C?01:39
lcukive really enjoyed picking up all my old habits :)01:40
moontigeryes im starting to code in C now too ... i like pythin but C is my home (and c++)01:40
moontigerpython too01:40
lcukthe last time i touched c before this year was in #9901:41
moontigerwow really?01:41
moontigerwhat u been doing since then???01:41
lcukyeah, ive been coasting in visual basic for far too long ;)01:41
moontigerahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh he said the V word01:41
* moontiger runs aroiund screaming01:41
lcukbut you best thank it, cos its kept my mind sharp.  making a complex vb program run well is as much an art as making a c program run excellently01:42
mgedminthere's nothing wrong with the V word, but the B word should not be spoken in polite company01:42
lcukits just syntax01:42
mgedminplus cultural baggage01:43
moontigeryou're right lcuk ... .i was kidding :)01:44
lcukheh, mgedmin i didnt realise you had taken over hte convo, hiya01:44
lcuki haven't told anyone by the way01:45
* mgedmin blinks and searches his unclean conscience for any dirty secrets that lcuk might know01:45
derfDamn, lardman|gone is gone.01:46
lcukyeah derf, i saw him drop out earlier01:46
lcukright, i must dash, ive gotta align about 50 styles01:47
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moontigerim heading home ... finished teaching for the day :)02:03
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cyrus__Do you have to run the hildon desktop environment or can you replace it with something like lxde?02:33
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mentany hints for mp3 player for maemo that doesn't suck?02:38
ment(tried canola, youamp, builtin media player)02:39
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mgedminif you find one, tell me02:40
mgedminthe builtin media player is the least sucky one in my experience02:40
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mgedminit sucks a lot, but others suck even more02:40
menti hate that media library thing02:40
mgedminI hate the 2-second delay for every action02:41
mgedminI hate how you cannot skip to next song if you've stopped playing02:41
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menthmm i've never got that far02:41
mgedminI hate how it doesn't show the full filename02:41
mgedminso if you have mp3 files with artist - album - title and no tags inside, you have no chance to see what the tracks are02:42
mentwho would care for usability as long as it looks like iphone (this is the case of canola)02:43
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closetcyrus__: Was that a general query about the tablets? There're projects like deblet ( which will let you use other lxde or whatever.03:13
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closetcyrus__: And to answer your question from a few days ago about logging into a linux box, if you set up XDMCP ( and then do something like "Xephyr -query ipaddress :1" on your tablet, you might just be able to get to a login screen. might give you some tips on installing/using Xephyr from within the maemo GUI. :)03:44
AStormhmmh, xephyr for tablet would be nice, yes03:50
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AStormalbeit slow03:50
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cyrus__closet - ok...thanks04:43
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cyrus__closet - one thing. Deblet is a whole other OS though isn't it (actually installed it already). But is it possible to just replace the hildon desktop with something else (like lxde or xfce)04:46
yigalis there a gvim port for maemo?04:46
yigalusing vim in the maemo xterm is really challenging, beyond what I think is reasonable04:48
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yigalI see debian has vim-gtk for both testing and unstable for armel, but I can't imagine they will work04:55
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yigalI mean I see this post but are they talking about installing debian and then installing these packages on top of a full debian install or on diablo05:02
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* mgedmin has a new tablet moment05:59
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mgedminooh, ancient OS version06:00
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mgedminhey, the extras repository is broken!!!!06:25
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mgedminwithout extras I can't get openssh06:27
mgedminor fbreader06:27
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mgedminoh, extras-devel06:29
mgedminstupid me06:29
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mgedminhey, maemo-mapper is not installable!06:45
mgedminlibhildonfm2 (=1:2.0.5) is missing06:45
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mgedminwhy maemo-mapper is in Category: other?07:15
mgedminwhy not in Navigation?07:15
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mgedminhm, maemo-mapper's postinst exited with code 107:16
mgedminI wonder if that's just a case of a missing 'exit 0' at the end07:16
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mgedmin"maemo-select-menu-location maemo-mapper.desktop" fails07:20
mgedmindpkg -L maemo-mapper shows the desktop file was dropped into /07:23
mgedmininstead of /usr/share/applications/holdon/07:23
mgedminerr, hildon/07:23
mgedminbroken package!!!07:23
mgedminseen gnuite07:23
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zakkmDoes anyone know roughly how much a N800 would cost me?07:25
mgedminless than $400, since that's how much a N810 would cost you07:26
mgedmin(amazon has them for around $360, I believe)07:26
summatusmentisused you can probably get them around $200-$30007:26
zakkmno honestly, i bought a N770 many months ago but i got the WSOD so i decided to trash it but I want the N800 now.07:26
zakkmthe N810 in store is $349.9907:26
zakkm$200-300 is too much isn't it?07:27
johnxlook for an n800 with an sd card of some type included, used for ~$20007:27
johnxthey were going for less new for a while before all the stock was sold out07:27
* aspect paid $200aud a few months ago for n800 .. n810 goes for about $450aud07:27
zakkmwhats the aud exchange rate? im Canadian07:28
* mgedmin updates
* mgedmin hates the sourceforge-style bug tracker07:28
zakkmIs it possible to install Gentoo on the N800 ?07:28
mgedmingoogle knows everything, including exchange rates07:28
mgedminwell, maybe, for some values of "install" and "Gentoo"07:28
johnxzakkm, if you have time and want to start the project yourself,07:28
mgedminbut for any reasonable values the answer is "no"07:29
johnxthere's no reason it wouldn't work07:29
johnxit just hasn't been done07:29
zakkmi have used Gentoo very well for my pc in the past and use it for a mini download server07:29
zakkmI meant like since most people do debian, wouldnt gentoo technically work?07:29
zakkmOr is there some sort of block?07:29
johnxyes, of course, but it wouldn't be practical07:29
zakkmWhy not?07:30
johnxno block in particular except time spent compiling07:30
zakkmI will compile on my pc, not the tablet.07:30
zakkmIt wont have many apps.07:30
zakkmIts not a PC.07:30
johnxeven glibc takes a long time07:30
johnxbut sure, go ahead07:30
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zakkmOh also is mpd avaliable on maemo?07:30
johnxI think so. check and /downloads07:31
johnxor ... google :P07:31
zakkmoh cool there is07:31
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johnxzakkm, so you going to start the gentoo project? :) I know other people were interested but somehow nothing got started it seems07:38
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zakkmWell first, I have to continue working to get the money for one. ( 17 years old, highschool ) Then i would have to find a obtain a new one but afterwards yes i would start07:38
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johnxsounds good. keep in mind that if you plan to use the command line a lot, you might want to get an n810 instead, since it has a keyboard07:42
zakkmI heard bluetooth keyboards work well with the n800 ?07:43
zakkmAlso i can ssh it from my computer can't i?07:43
johnxof course07:43
zakkmI cant afford anything more than the N80007:44
zakkmEven the N800 is alot.07:44
johnxI know the feeling07:44
zakkmI liked my N770 alot. I can't believe i got WSOD07:44
zakkmi got it on the second week of buying and since i bought off ebay. I couldn't return.07:45
johnxI blew all my money when I was younger on getting my own desktop right when they started coming below $100007:45
aspectgentoo on nit? o.O07:45
zakkmwhy not?07:45
johnxaspect, sure why not. all it takes is lots and lots and lots of time07:45
zakkmIts as lightweight as you can get? Won't try LFS of course.07:45
johnxit would be the same difference in the end07:46
zakkmBesides compile and setup time, how much extra time can it possibly take?07:46
zakkmI mean like.. can make "installers"07:46
johnxhacking some packages that don't build for armel can take a surprising amount of time07:46
zakkmall Nokia n800's are the same aren't they?07:46
johnxyup, and the n810 and n800 have the same cpu/chipset/memory07:47
zakkmoh really?07:47
zakkmSo then yeah. besides the project itself. it can replace Debian07:47
* aspect thinks the question is not "why not" but "why". Then again, I'm not 17 any more.07:47
zakkmaspect, sorry.07:47
aspectit's okay, I quite enjoy growing up :)07:47
johnxzakkm, i think it's a great project and even if it doesn't work out perfectly you'll have a lot of fun or at least learn a lot :)07:48
aspectbut being 17 was fun too :)07:48
* johnx rebuilt most of his linux distro from source circa redhat 5.1 :)07:48
zakkmcirca 5.1 ...07:48
* zakkm can't think back that far07:48
aspectheh. I still remember the adventure of upgrading my slackware box to glibc :)07:49
johnxthings move fast, eh?07:49
* zakkm started at either redhat 7 or 807:49
johnxugh. rh8 was a nightmare07:49
aspectthese days all I need is my cane and apt-get07:49
zakkmthey all were then :P07:49
zakkmthese days all i need is my Mac :D07:49
johnxdebian was fine, but rh8 was especially broken07:49
zakkmdebian existed then?07:50
aspectdebian: linux for codgers07:50
aspectdebian has been around for a loooong time, son :)07:50
johnxzakkm, debian is ooold :)07:50
zakkmI just remember redhat 7-9 and then a huge jump to fedora core 407:51
zakkmI guess i found some other hobby then07:51
zakkmdebian is pronouced deb ee an?07:51
zakkmi always pronouced it .. de be an07:51
zakkmSo what NITs do the two of you have?07:52
johnxbetter deal than the n810 as long as you don't care about the keyboard07:52
aspectn810 is not worth the keyboard and gps at the cost of fixed camera, losing a memory slot and twice the price07:53
aspectoh, and the radio07:53
johnxsometimes I really want the keyboard :/07:53
johnxdistro timeline if anyone's interested in nostalgia:
aspectI will get around to buying a bt keyboard at some point ...07:54
aspectah, I was looking for that :)07:54
zakkmoh I have one question if you dont mind07:54
johnxsure, go ahead07:54
aspectdoes anyone else remember the infomagic CDs?07:55
zakkmMy friend is looking to buy a N800, was totally into my N770 when i had it.. He asked if the GPS works even if no wifi is found?07:55
zakkmI didnt know the answer.07:55
aspectn800 has no gps07:55
zakkmthe n810 gps07:55
johnxwell the GPS works no matter where you are, but if you need to download maps you need wifi...07:56
aspectI have no idea why he thinks it would depend on wifi07:56
zakkmThe problem is here, the N810 is $349.99 instore, warranty etc.. but N800s dont sell07:56
zakkmoh okay07:56
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zakkmwell you have to download maps?07:56
zakkmor update them possibly07:57
johnxthe most popular map application on the n8x0 (maemo-mapper) downloads maps over the internet. You can download them ahead of time, but if you don't then you're out of luck without wifi07:57
zakkmI dont know.07:57
johnxthere's also an included map application, but the maps just cover the US and Europe and a couple other countries07:57
zakkmk thanks. He seems very interested by that.07:57
zakkmWe're in Canada?07:57
zakkmToronto, Canada07:57
johnxI'm sure that's covered07:57
johnxI should have said north america :)07:57
zakkmOk, just making sure.07:58
johnxa good thing to do...lots of people buy these assuming things and end up frustrated07:58
zakkmhaha yeah.07:58
zakkmI'm a big fan of asking on irc.07:58
zakkmand idling in them and going through logs07:58
johnxlots of good info in the logs here and on google in general07:59 is also pretty great07:59
aspectn800s don't sell new anywhere any more afaik; but in canada you should be able to come across one second hand with a bit of patience07:59
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zakkmMy friend saw one on craigslist brand new in box for $19008:00
johnxpretty good deal08:00
johnxthat's about the price to look for I think08:00
zakkmI saw one a couple months back on tigerdirect ( which has many locations in my city ) for $229.99 but i didn't have the money08:00
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johnxone more thing for the have to pay for routing with the built in map application, and for maemo-mapper it uses google for routing, so you need an inet connection to get new routes08:01
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johnxthat's probably what your friend was thinking of08:01
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zakkmWould it be bad to buy one second-hand thats used?08:01
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johnxan n800? probably fine.08:01
johnxno moving parts, built like a little tank. if you get it from craigslist, make sure you test the touchscreen08:02
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johnxif you get it from ebay, make sure they say stuff works and give you a DOA guarantee08:02
johnxbatteries are pretty cheap and easy to find, so that's no problem08:03
zakkmtheres alot of ppl selling for $180-220 on craigslist08:03
zakkmbut used08:03
zakkm$170 even08:03
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johnxit all depends on the condition, but like I said, they take a *lot* of abuse and still look nice08:04
zakkmyeah but would i have to test wifi , bluetooth. .etc/08:05
zakkmlike i bought the nokia n770 and two weeks later  i got wsod -.-08:05
zakkmcouldn't fix08:05
yigalI can't find a conclusive answer but it appears there is no vim-gtk that at this point works in diablo - in my case an n800.  If this is operational perspective, that there is none, can anyone suggest an editor that works nicely for making coding that is gui?08:05
johnxthat would be best I think. touchscreen and wifi would be my biggest concerns08:05
johnxWSOD or similar doesn't happen to n8x0s08:05
johnxit was a design flaw with the 77008:05
zakkmyigal: qt4 ?08:06
johnxyigal, maybe pygtkeditor? or scite?08:06
zakkmoh pfft vim-gtk -.-08:06
yigalzakkm: will check those out, they are available at this time?08:07
johnxI *think so*, sorry can't check now08:07
yigalexcuse me zakkm I meant johnx, confusing sorry08:07
zakkmyigal: i didnt realize you said vim-gtk .. so dont look up qt4 :p08:07
yigaljohnx: don't worry I will08:07
yigalzakkm: no need to08:07
zakkm <-- pygtkeditor08:08
zakkmyigal : ..08:08
yigalthank you08:08
zakkm <-- scite08:08
zakkmjohnx: i know they dont but it was annoying. I just spent $85 on something i only got to use for two weeks08:09
zakkm( I paid $85 for the Nokia N770 )08:09
yigalthey look good, not vim, but I'll get over it, using vim in the osso-xterm I just can't get used to, via ssh it's great to have though08:10
zakkmnokia N800 Tablet w/ 128mb and 4G sd's - $170    ??? sounds good?08:10
johnxyeah, that would really suck08:10
zakkmwhy you using vim ?08:10
yigalzakkm: for me, it's the best text editor08:10
zakkmuse nano XD .. if that works well on NITs08:10
zakkmor even just vi08:11
yigalzakkm: :), no I'm not that type of minimalist08:11
johnxvi is fine, but drives me crazy with the onscreen keyboard O_o08:11
zakkmuse abiword :D lol08:11
yigalthat's bloat08:11
zakkmits a joke.08:11
yigalyes, it was funny08:11
johnxzakkm, sure. just make sure you can poke at it first08:11
yigalbut not as funny as using openoffice08:11
zakkmi would never use openoffice08:11
zakkmdont like it08:12
zakkmscrew the bloat part.08:12
yigalzakkm: good luck with the n800, I'm really liking mine08:12
zakkmhow much did you pay for it?08:12
yigalan even $200 - ebay08:12
zakkmtrying to find it as cheap as possible08:12
yigalcould have got it for less, but I didn't want to waste too much of my time for the deal08:12
johnxzakkm, don't go too cheap and end up with a paperweight...08:13
zakkmnokia N800 Tablet w/ 128mb and 4G sd's - $170  <-- how does that sound?08:13
zakkmmeet in person.. so no shipping or anything08:13
johnxyigal, he's going to start building gentoo, natively. I think time must not be a problem...08:13
zakkmIm in Highschool with a part-time job.08:13
zakkmit looks good though.08:13
yigalwow, obviously not, sounds like a good buy08:14
johnxseems like a good deal08:14
zakkmused though, but apparantly comes with everything08:14
yigalsounds good, if it is what it claims to be08:15
zakkmgonna take me a few weeks to save up $17008:16
johnxah man, all that nice stuff I didn't get with mine...08:16
* johnx bought a floor model08:16
zakkmwhat's that?08:16
johnxa demo unit08:16
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johnxat a compUSA store that was closing08:16
zakkmso just device and charger?08:16
johnxyup. I'm lucky the guy found the charger, too08:16
johnxand it had been abused for ~3 months before I got my hands on it08:17
zakkmDesperate for a NIT?08:17
johnxwell, it was ~30% off, right after they had just come out08:17
* summatusmentis has been contemplating selling his n81008:18
zakkmsummatusmentis: i offer you $100 XD08:18
zakkmand my computer08:18
zakkmwell .. the tower08:18
summatusmentiszakkm: I don't know I want to... I just don't know that I use it enough08:18
zakkmheres a thought, use it more. :P08:19
summatusmentisI carry a laptop with me most of the time, I prefer the full keyboard08:19
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, nokia-repositories has been fixed for the next update.08:19
zakkmjohnx: apps work on maemo/NITs as long as the dependencies are met and it compiles, right?08:19
zakkmcompiles succesfully in armel * *08:19
johnxzakkm, yes, to some extent at least08:20
johnxremember, 128MB of RAM and 400MHz is all you get08:20
summatusmentisalthough, my nit works well for surfing the net under the desk in calss :)08:20
zakkmI mean is that all thats required?08:20
zakkmsummatusmentis: be human and use it above the desk :D08:21
johnxzakkm, as a bare baseline, yes. whether it's particularly usable depends on the requirements of the app and its interface08:21
zakkmoh okay08:21
* johnx pictures summatusmentis sitting under his desk in class08:21
summatusmentiszakkm: I'm supposed to be paying attention above the desk08:21
* zakkm pictures the teacher looking at summatusmentis supiciously08:21
summatusmentisjohnx: I wihs!08:21
zakkmWhats the worst that can happen08:21
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summatusmentisI get called out in front of the class08:22
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zakkmI have a friend, highschool, he just sits in class on his laptop playing/  talking on msn. Teacher says nothing08:22
zakkmSo? dont like that?08:22
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zakkmcalled out of class?08:22
summatusmentisdoesn't work as well in a math class when you have no reason to be using it08:22
zakkmjohnx: how much does the newest OS2008 take in terms of ram usage?08:23
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zakkmby a "top" amount.08:23
zakkmwith no apps opened.08:23
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GeneralAntillestop is entirely meaningless.08:23
zakkmahh sorry08:23
johnxGeneralAntilles, not entirely for strict memory free or cached after boot08:23
zakkmscrew cache08:24
zakkmhow much is left08:24
zakkmonce you include cache it will always be full.. more-or-less08:24
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johnx15MB free 48MB cache08:24
zakkmare you serious? thats crap08:25
zakkmthought theres 128mb?08:25
johnxuh yeah08:25
johnxdesktop, weather applet, rss reader, various applets08:25
zakkmIs 2008OS quicker/more reponsive than 2007 ?08:25
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johnxx server, libgtk, a pretty background08:25
zakkmit uses xorg?08:26
johnxkdrive actually08:26
zakkmbackground - feh?08:26
GeneralAntillesOS2008 has a whole extra 70MHz. . . .08:26
johnxzakkm, yes, helped significantly by a CPU speed boost from 320MHz to > 400MHz08:26
zakkmyeah but the version might be more intensive08:26
johnxit is08:26
GeneralAntillesTrust me, you don't want to use OS2007.08:26
johnxbut it's worth it in every way08:26
johnxheck, try it out, then try to find apps for it or sites that work right with the browser08:27
zakkmcan you overclock it? lol just curious08:27
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johnxmaybe, no one has, though some have looked around08:27
johnxif you're an experienced kernel hacker, have a go :)08:28
zakkmlol no08:28
johnxthen the answer is no08:28
zakkmthe most ive done as far as that is concerned is kernel configuration08:28
zakkmactual editing of kernel, no thanks.08:28
johnxoverclocking a device with passive cooling is really asking for trouble08:28
zakkmbut how did they boost the cpu speed then?08:28
zakkmwithout altering the hardware08:28
johnxbecause 400MHz was the original design spec08:28
zakkmwas it underclocked?08:29
zakkmor something08:29
mgedminhuh, I thought vim was in extras...08:29
johnxyup, then they did some neat tricks with frequency scaling to solve the power drain08:29
GeneralAntillesIf you want to fry it.08:29
zakkmSo 2008 takes more power than 2007 ?08:29
mgedminoh, it is in extras-devel08:29
mgedminany reason not to promote?08:29
zakkmcause its dev stuff?08:29
GeneralAntillesNo, OS2008 can take more or less depending on the use-case.08:29
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GeneralAntilleszakkm, that's not what Extras-devel is about. . . .08:30
johnxzakkm, probably not. the CPU normally sits at 160MHz when idle, where before it was always 32008:30
zakkmi know08:30
zakkmdevel is beta isnt it?08:30
* johnx thinks in bogoMIPS :)08:30
johnxyes, 330MHz08:30
GeneralAntillesIt's beta, but it's not category:developer's tools.08:30
zakkmi know08:31
zakkmi just said that :p08:31
GeneralAntilles[1:29am] <zakkm> cause its dev stuff?08:31
GeneralAntilles^ implies that it's for developer's tools, no matter their stability.08:31
zakkmdevel is beta isnt it?08:31
zakkmlol this irc client is weird. but yes i said that before you said it08:32
johnxGeneralAntilles, extras-devel implies that it's dev stuff08:32
mgedminextras devel is dev stuff in the sense it's stuff that's in development08:32
mgedminnot stuff that is for developers08:32
zakkmbut if its in normal extras.   then people will try it, get curious, google it etc08:32
zakkmand say how does it work , etc08:32
zakkmwhile if its kept in extra-devel then they can say .. its for experts only08:32
zakkmwhich developers stuff and beta stuff both are .. well beta somewhat08:33
GeneralAntillesA stable version of vim wont hurt anybody.08:33
GeneralAntillesThey install it, find out it's not useful them them, and uninstall it.08:33
johnxOMG stable vim *dies*08:34
zakkmyes but you dont wanna category it with other things08:34
* GeneralAntilles sighs.08:34
zakkmit belongs in devel in my opinion08:34
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* mgedmin drops some flowers on johnx's grave08:34
johnxzakkm, nah, extras is anything that's safe and generally working, no matter who it's for08:34
zakkmanyways, there is no developement section anyways08:34
zakkmis there?08:34
zakkmIts been awhile since i last saw a repo list08:34
johnxthere's a devel category in extras, IIRC :)08:35
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, by the way, user/nagivation isn't a valid section.08:35
mgedminthe app installer showed it to me when I only had nokia's default repos08:35
johnxnevermind, I lied08:35
johnxbut there is a programming section08:35
mgedmin(stupid thing keeps disabling extras after every OS feature upgrade)08:35
zakkmcalled programming?08:36
johnxzakkm, yes, it's a subcategory of the extras repo08:36
GeneralAntillesaccessories, communication, games, multimedia, office, other, programming, support,08:36
GeneralAntillesthemes, tools08:36
zakkmmgedmin: it might overwrite settings with default = off08:36
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, like I said, it's been fixed for the next release.08:36
mgedminoh, that's what you meant08:36
yigalzakkm: pygtkeditor very nice it even has some tex/latex syntax highlighting, thanks for telling me about it08:36
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, well, Nokia isn't compliant with their own packaging policy.08:36
zakkmi was referring to normal linux repos .. i havent used a NIT in along time08:36
johnxzakkm, think debian for the most part08:37
zakkmjohnx told you about it08:37
mgedminanyone here with admin access to extras-devel?08:37
zakkmyigal: johnx told you, i just linked it.08:37
mgedminthere's a package with broken control file that breaks the app manager08:37
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zakkmjohnx: yeah but i didnt relaize there was a section called programming08:37
yigaloh yes, then more props for johnx, I'm going to bed I obviously can't think08:37
zakkmoh wow i was write08:37
yigalthanks johnx08:37
zakkmit overwrities :P08:37
mgedmineasy-deb-chroot, iirc08:38
johnxzakkm, heh...that's because the nokia guys make up their own sections, as do other people contributing packages to extras08:38
johnxzakkm, yeah, it *really* shouldn't though08:38
zakkmSoftware Packages in "lenny", Subsection devel08:38
zakkmsee i picked development08:38
zakkmdebian classifies that as devel08:38
zakkmit doesnt count betas as devel..08:39
zakkmI was right .. just about debian, not NITs way.08:39
zakkm <-- and click development08:39
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johnxzakkm, debian and the distro on the NITs has diverged quite a bit, especially in naming08:40
moontigerjohnx... is it ok to use glib in a dbus client for the deblets?08:40
zakkmI know but GeneralAntilles was telling me i was wrong, when i wasn't08:40
zakkmWell almost not wrong. just was talking about something else.08:40
zakkmMaemo is Debian right?08:41
moontigerzakkm, maemo isnt debian as such08:41
zakkmdoes Maemo use /etc/rc.d for services?08:41
moontigerit is based on debian08:41
johnxzakkm, there were more related 3 years ago, but no it's not, and yes, you were technically wrong :)08:41
moontigerand maemo is a modified gnome desktop afaik08:41
johnxs/there/maemo and debian/08:41
infobotjohnx meant: zakkm, maemo and debian were more related 3 years ago, but no it's not, and yes, you were technically wrong :)08:41
zakkmits gnome? really?08:42
GeneralAntillesExtras-devel is about stability, not about package section.08:42
johnxzakkm, only in the loosest sense08:42
moontigera modified gnome08:42
mgedminboth Maemo and Debian have the letter 'e' in their name08:42
johnxGeneralAntilles, it *is* a confusing name though08:42
zakkmjust gtk but nothing else?08:42
mgedminand the letter 'a', too!08:42
zakkmhildon is nit only isnt it?08:42
GeneralAntillesUbuntu MID uses Hildon08:42
johnxzakkm, gtk, dbus, x11,08:42
moontigerhildon will run on ubuntu08:42
zakkmhandheld device stuff08:43
zakkmhal ? :P08:43
johnxHardware Abstraction Layer08:43
moontigeryes it has hal via dbus08:43
moontigerwell it has hal08:43
moontigerand u can access it via dbus08:43
zakkmi know.. does it have hal?08:43
zakkmi know what hal is08:43
zakkmwhat file would be edited to add daemons to startp?08:44
moontigerjohnx, do you know about the deblets stuff?08:44
zakkmIs there any daemons i could possibly remove to save memory?08:44
johnxmoontiger, why would it not be ok to use dbus and glib on deblet?08:44
johnxsorry I didn't see the questions earlier08:45
johnxzakkm, metalayer-crawler08:45
moontigerwell sts asked me if i could write a battery monitor for deblet08:45
moontigerso im using dbus to get to hal08:45
zakkmFrom the slide, it shows that the next internet tablet includes 3G HSPA, a TI OMAP3 processor, OpenGL graphics accelerator, and Maemo 5 OS.08:45
zakkmshould i wait?08:45
johnxmoontiger, that seems reasonable I think08:45
johnxzakkm, can you have $500 by next june, and wait that long?08:46
zakkmnext june? really08:46
johnxplus or minus a month or two08:46
zakkmopengl acceleration in NITs would help alot though08:46
zakkmhow fast are TI OMAP3's?08:46
johnxclose to the intel atom, clock for clock, IIRC08:47
whodatI updated to the latest version of OS2008 and I can no longer make a bluetooth connection to the internet through my treo, it worked with the older version of OS2008 that came with it factory. any ideas?08:47
zakkmi have the intel atom on my cpu :)08:47
zakkmthat im using now for my pc08:47
zakkmgot the D945gclf motherboard :D08:47
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 is 2-3x faster than OMAP208:47
whodaterror message is "internet connection failed"08:47
moontigerjohnx i was wondering if using glib was also ok or if i should keep to the low level c api08:47
johnxzakkm, interesting choice08:47
GeneralAntillesA 600MHz Cortex A8 is approximately equivalent to a >1GHz ARM11.08:48
zakkmIts fast enough, Mac OSX works natively on it08:48
zakkmI dont know what Cortex's are. :P08:48
johnxmoontiger, I think it should be fine. most environments that people would use on deblet that need a battery meter would already depend on glib08:48
moontigerok cool :)08:48
zakkmsounds like the tablet is very very slow08:48
zakkmthe N800 that is.08:49
johnxzakkm, from your perspective? likely :P08:49
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zakkmMy N770 was so slow :P08:49
johnxthe n800 is a lot faster than that08:49
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johnxGeneralAntilles, please give it up08:49
zakkmI realize that but still.08:49
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it's my job.08:49
johnxGeneralAntilles, how much does pedantry pay?08:50
* moontiger laughs08:52
johnxthere was supposed to be a :P after that :D08:52
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johnxzakkm, what was your first computer?08:54
moontigerjohnx, glib isnt gtk is it?08:55
moontigergtk is built on glib right?08:55
johnxmoontiger, gtk depends on glib08:55
moontigerso i can use glib WITHOUT pulling in gtk yes?08:55
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moontigercoolio thnx ... im new to gtk programming so sorry if i ask dumb questions08:56
* johnx doesn't really program in gtk at all, just hacks things until they compile08:56
moontigerits kinda frustrating cos im a senior level programmer on other platforms but learning from scratch again is odd08:57
moontigerfun but odd08:57
GeneralAntillesNice, Qole broke Extras-devel08:57
qwerty12Someone get him a scratchbox :P08:58
johnxI knew those debian guys were up to no good!08:58
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johnxwow....just wow08:59
johnxnever saw that one08:59
* GeneralAntilles wonders why in the world UPS is giving me an estimated delivery of Saturday.08:59
johnxbecause your had something shipped UPS?09:00
GeneralAntillesBut Saturday?09:00
GeneralAntillesHe put it in non-free, too. . . .09:00
qwerty12Hah. all the depends line is:09:00
GeneralAntillesSomebody go beat qole up with a rubber hose.09:00
qwerty12Depends: bzip2, tar, wget09:00
johnxdon't they deilver on saturday with certain shipping deals? like some super-priority-expresso shipping option?09:01
GeneralAntillesjohnx, sure, but I only paid for Ground.09:01
johnxor maybe it's just a lie to kill your plans for saturday :)09:02
johnxI know I'd do that09:02
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GeneralAntillesI wont be here anyway.09:02
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johnxuhm...your refridgerator will be delivered between 8PM saturday and whenever the bars close09:02
GeneralAntillesIs powerlaunch really necessary for Debian chroot?09:03
qwerty12I'm sure he removed the need for it in his latest versions09:03
mgedminwhy on earth is ./configure claiming I don't have gtk+-2.0 in my scratchbox?09:03
johnxdoes it want a later version? are the headers there?09:04
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zakkmis gtk+-2.0 registered?09:04
zakkmsorry i left ;p09:04
qwerty12registered? sounds like windows and it's dlls...09:05
zakkmjohnx: my first computer, was a 486 i believe lol09:05
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zakkmregistered, as in, in the package manager?09:05
zakkmpackages are registered , version number, what repo it came from etc.09:05
qwerty12ah, never heard of it like that09:05
johnxzakkm, well it's faster than that. think a ~400MHz PII or PII w/ 128MB of RAM and a 5,400 hard drive09:05
mgedminmaybe debuild was a bad idea09:06
mgedmin./configure works if I run it myself09:06
mgedminlet me try dpkg-buildpackage09:06
zakkmoh really?09:06
zakkmN800 or the new one coming out?09:06
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zakkmqwerty12: how would it know if gtk+-2.0 if it didnt say anywhere that it was installed/wasnt?09:06
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johnxzakkm, n80009:07
qwerty12The new one will be faster than N800 for sure but as none of us have tried it, you can bet on the N800 :P09:07
zakkm400mhz P2 w/ 128mb ram?09:07
qwerty12zakkm, meh, I've used headers fine when I've compiled it from tarball myself09:07
johnxzakkm, configure isn't tied to a package manager or even to linux09:08
zakkmthats awesome09:08
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zakkmi know09:08
zakkmits coreutils09:08
zakkmwell make .. probably?09:08
mgedminGeneralAntilles: any ideas on how to fix extras-devel?09:09
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to kill easy-deb-chroot09:09
johnxhave qole dunput?09:09
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qwerty12Lets promote it!09:10
mgedmininto /dev/null09:10
mgedminmaemo wiki is incredibly slow tonight09:11
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* mgedmin uploads pwsafe to extras-devel autobuilder09:16
zakkmwould PekWM work well on the N800?09:16
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mgedminhmm, is the bug in the package, or is the bug in the archive?09:21
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qwerty12Packages file I guess. Look, he has an empty depends:
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moontigerwow somebody broke the whole repo??09:24
GeneralAntillesPoor qole09:25
GeneralAntillesHe may never upload another package again.09:25
mgedminhe uploaded one with a fixed debian/control09:25
mgedminbut the archive script includes both of them in the Packages file09:25
mgedminsomeone should fix the script09:25
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mgedminto omit empty Depends: lines from the output09:26
mgedminwhat's the bug tracker for the extras-devel repository problems?09:26
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* mgedmin files a bug09:31
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Stskeepshah @ qole uploading a broken package09:36
Stskeepstold him to make a debian package from scratch instead of the hacky .deb stuff09:36
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* GeneralAntilles fires off an email to Boingo about the package section.09:37
mgedminreported as
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notcoolbuthothi, did someone worked a bit with the osso-pdf-viewer code ?09:42
notcoolbuthotdid you managed to open a file in the emulator or on the device when launching it ?09:43
notcoolbuthot*when launching it from the host pc that is09:43
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* GeneralAntilles fires off more emails to maintainers with invalid packages.09:46
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GeneralAntillesWoo, one positive response.09:56
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zapAre there available sources for at least the simplest modules in /lib/dsp (e.g. pcm)?10:33
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Make a wiki page with a nice table ;)10:35
infobotX-Fade meant: GeneralAntilles: Create a wiki page with a nice table ;)10:35
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prakwhat would you suggest to use for me to sync my n810 with my laptop?10:53
prakother than using usb?10:53
praksomething like live mesh but works on the n81010:53
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, 3 positive responses so far!10:54
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: What does your mail say? "You suck! Fix ur ShiTZ"10:56
GeneralAntillesSomething like: "Hi there! Your package x specifies an invalid section "y". This goes against the platform packaging policy. Section a, b, or c would be more appropriate. Thank you for your time!"10:58
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, positive mails and offering a solution helps.10:58
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: That is how I do it too.10:58
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Most developers actually care, they just need a bit of a push.11:00
GeneralAntillesI wonder about user/navigation11:00
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Make sure to add to:
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Navigation would be a useful category?11:01
GeneralAntillesI dunno11:01
GeneralAntillesMaps uses it11:01
X-FadeI'm trying to create a reasonable list and get them in the policy before Fremantle.11:02
GeneralAntillesIt seems like it could be11:02
GeneralAntillesAs we've got a much larger focus on location-based stuff than other platforms11:02
GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper is currently in Other11:04
GeneralAntilleswhich is a weak catch-all.11:04
X-FadeHmm I wonder what happened here:
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, did you see that Extras-devel is broken?11:05
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: What broke?11:05
GeneralAntilleseasy-deb-chroot has a blank depends line in Packages.11:05
GeneralAntillesI'm not really sure what's up.11:05
GeneralAntillesI think the older version of easy-deb-chroot broke things.11:06
GeneralAntillesHe fixed it in the latest upload.11:06
X-FadeAh yeah, that is the same issue.11:06
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GeneralAntillesCategorization just plain sucks.11:10
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GeneralAntillesShould bug kontto about UKMP11:28
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Should bug konttori about UKMP11:28
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I think we should try to push the Maemo-specific packaging fields as part of the categorization stuff11:31
GeneralAntillespretty name, icon, upgrade details, etc.11:31
X-FadeYes, that would be a good thing.11:31
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RST38hGeneral: Ah, just skip the last t and declare hi Japanese =)11:40
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infobotRST38h meant: General: Ah, just skip the last t and declare him Japanese =)11:40
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X-FadeI wonder if we will see UBIFS on our tablets soon.12:45
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RST38hOnly if Nokia decides to pick it up for /12:49
RST38hOtherwise, why would you?12:49
GeneralAntilles"on-the-flight compression"12:49
X-FadeWell, it will be so much better than jffs2 ;)12:49
GeneralAntillesI'd rather just move away from the NAND setup.12:50
X-FadeYeah, but that is unlikely.12:50
Stskeeps3 sd ports thank you very much12:51
lcukx-fade, thats an interesting aside, you are in a better position than anyone to push it.  seems like it ticks all the right boxen for a flash fs12:51
GeneralAntillesMoving away from NAND also means we can put more RAM in the PoP.12:51
X-Fadelcuk: Lol, you give me way too much credit ;)12:51
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X-Fadelcuk: I'm absolutely in _no_ position to push things like that ;)12:52
Stskeepsi'd love a nokia with 3 sd ports, for easy backup of internal software, etc :P12:52
Stskeeps.. mirroring or raid ;)12:52
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 has support for it.12:52
lcukheh, ok then, GeneralAntilles pack your gavel - you need to go knock some heads to get the core elements in place12:52
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lcukx-fade :) maybe push was too strong, you are in the right place to enquire and ask.  sometimes thats all thats needed12:53
lcukoh, and you can hold the server to ransom ;)12:53
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lcuk"ill turn off the n770 if we dont get ubifs ;)12:54
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woglindehm is ubifs stable enough?12:55
X-Fadewoglinde: I have no idea.12:56
X-FadeIt just got merged in
woglindehm the site says it will be in 2712:56
woglindethis could mean it is somehow stable12:56
woglindeargs that means a next todo on my list to integrate this into openembedded12:57
woglindewhere is my clone machine12:57
X-Fadewoglinde: It only works on raw mtd devices, so make sure you know what you are doing ;)12:58
crashanddieLMAO, "The French mobile service provider Bouygues Telecom had recently asked Apple to have the right to sell iPhones (only Orange has the right to do that). Apple replied to this request, and said they saw no problem with them selling iPhones, as long as they sold them with Orange contracts."12:58
RST38hGeneral: SDRAM size issue is mostly cost-dependent12:58
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lcukcrashanddie, thats class12:58
GeneralAntillesRST38h, more like availability dependent.12:58
RST38hChips are about the same size and consume about the same power, but bigger SDRAM chips cost more12:58
GeneralAntillesThere aren't any PoPs with 512MB yet.12:58
woglindeX-Fade: hm which device has raw mtd?12:59
RST38hyea, installing two effectively doubles your power drain and cost12:59
X-Fadewoglinde: The tablets? :)12:59
crashanddielcuk, I think that's Apple very polite way of saying "Go fuck yourself"12:59
GeneralAntillesMicron/Samsung has 128MB RAM/256MB NAND or 256MB RAM/No NAND.12:59
lcukcrashanddie, either way, its bag on accurate12:59
RST38hThat's a weird chip and I would rather prefer Nokia does not use it13:00
lcukanyway, time for more tps  reports :(13:00
GeneralAntillesWhy's it weird?13:00
woglindex-fade ah I sea that means if I have a /dev/mtd? device than I am fine13:00
RST38hcombines RAM + NAND on a single die. Probably good for cheap/small devices with limited memory requirements13:00
RST38hFor something like our tablets, it effectively limits the RAM size13:01
X-Fadewoglinde: It works on raw flash devices. So directly on the chip. Managed flash chips are not supported (e.g. thumbdrive).13:01
GeneralAntillesThere's no way they're not going to use one or the other.13:01
GeneralAntillesEvery other OMAP3 device uses the 128/256 PoP13:02
RST38hyes but I would rather prefer that they use 256MB SDRAM chip and a dirt-chip 1GB managed NAND13:02
GeneralAntillesThe 256/0 PoP. . . .13:02
RST38hThe latter can be head for peanuts right now and later upgraded to higher capacities as they become cheap13:02
infobotRST38h meant: The latter can be had for peanuts right now and later upgraded to higher capacities as they become cheap13:03
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, done anything with your beagleboard lately?13:03
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, still haven't invested the time to recover it.13:03
X-FadeWell, I guess that they will look very careful at their BOM ;)13:03
RST38hthat's for sure13:03
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RST38hespecially if the end device is going to sell for <=$40013:04
GeneralAntillesWhy would it?13:04
RST38hN810 does13:04
GeneralAntillesI can't possibly imagine it being cheaper than the N810.13:04
GeneralAntillesWell, to start.13:04
X-FadeAt least more care will be taken to the multimedia part of the product.13:04
X-FadeSo no crappy/hissing audio out etc ;)13:05
RST38hXFade: Yea, but that, thankfully, is almost free13:05
RST38hbtw, I like current audio out, it beats my poor Toshiba R100 hands down13:05
X-FadeRST38h: It is pretty poor in the N810.13:06
GeneralAntillesGetting a little USB amp working would be cool.13:06
X-FadeRST38h: You really don't want to use headphones and listen to good music ;)13:06
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crashanddieexternal USB soundcard could be nice13:06
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RST38hX-Fade: I don't listen to good music in a generally accepted sense :)13:09
woglindex-fade yes but the questions is how do I know that I have raw mtd stuff13:09
X-Fadewoglinde: Typically if you have some embedded device ;)13:09
RST38hcrash: That should actually be easy to make work, although most of those have shitty audio output13:09
woglindex-fade hahahaaaaaaa13:10
crashanddieRST38h, not really, back at home I had an external sound card we used in the studio, the quality beat a lot of mid-range internal sound cards13:10
crashanddieRST38h, we did pay over a grand for it, and it uses 2 USB ports13:10
X-Fadewoglinde: Even extranal storage cards don't qualify.13:10
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GeneralAntillesExternal stuff doesn't have to deal with the noise hell that is a computer case.13:11
infobotX-Fade meant: woglinde: Even external storage cards don't qualify.13:11
RST38hcrash: I mean $11 USB cards :)13:12
crashanddieRST38h, :P13:12
crashanddieRST38h, and what music do you listen to then?13:13
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woglindehm I will test it13:14
RST38hcrash: Tom Lehrer, Decemberists, and a bunch of Russian bands you do not know about.13:14
crashanddieoh, Tom Lehrer, my forbidden love13:15
* crashanddie hums "Pollution, pollution"13:15
* RST38h obviously prefers "Poisoning Pidgeons in the Park"13:15
crashanddie"Who's next" is awesome, too13:16
RST38halthough I had "Lobachevsky" in the infinite loop while working on the PhD thesis13:16
RST38hWho's Next is kinda outdated but it looks like it is gonna apply again13:16
lardmanGeneralAntilles: re "on the flight compression", this is what jffs2 already does btw13:17
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xorAxAxhmm, maemo 4.0 doesnt have libgc-dev but 4.1 will have, right?13:18
GeneralAntilleslardman, jffs2 does compression on an airplane?13:18
jsmanriqueis cairo supported in pymaemo?13:18
lardmanGeneralAntilles: yeah, I thought that too when I read it :)13:18
GeneralAntillesObviously jffs2 does compression, but what they meant to say was "on-the-fly". ;)13:19
lardmanmust be someone non-English who wrote it13:19
lardmanI know, jffs2 does this though13:19
X-FadeAnd you can turn it on/off per inode.13:19
lardmanok, that jffs2 can't do13:19
xorAxAxindeed, the difference page reports that. so if i want to use libgc-dev on 4.0, how would i do that?13:20
X-FadeAnd there is something about filesystem size and ram which it limiting on jffs2?13:20
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jsmanriqueit seems so13:20
GeneralAntillesIt loads the whole fs structure into memory on mount.13:20
GeneralAntillesWhich ends up taking forever when you start pushing the GB range.13:20
GeneralAntillesWhich is really the biggest problem with jffs213:21
GeneralAntillesit's horrifyingly unscalable.13:21
xorAxAxany idea?13:21
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: so sd boot has advantage of taking less time to mount, i guess?13:22
GeneralAntillesEh, 256MB isn't all that much.13:22
GeneralAntillesBut it's not compressed, so it has that advantage.13:22
RST38hIf I remember correctly, Linux should allow gzipping individual executables13:23
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RST38hehlo, hrw13:23
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lardmanhi hrw13:25
hrwjffs2 on 512MB starts to be unusable13:27
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xorAxAxany idea how i can get a package that is only avaialble in 4.1 running on 4.0? normal debian backporting procedure?13:28
X-FadeAnd jffs2 doesn't have writeback support?13:28
hrwbrb - reboot to 2.6.2713:28
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lardmanhrw: do you know roughly what a bitbake world takes up in terms of disk space atm?13:37
* lardman is looking to buy a hard disk for a dev box13:37
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hrwlardman: for one machine and no rm_work used?13:39
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lardmanyep, please13:40
hrwlardman: buy 500GB one - you will have spare space13:40
lardman~lart ide13:40
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples ide's foot to the floor13:40
hrwlardman: I do not remember when last time I tried world build with Oe13:40
lardmanI know, i was just looking for a rough idea of space, IDE drives are expensive cf. SATA13:40
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derflardman: So, I ran into some trouble getting the code to actually run.13:42
lardmanderf: ah ok, what was the error?13:43
derfDSP configuration ... failed13:43
derfTrying to restart dsp_dld13:43
lardmanwhich came out of dsp_dld?13:43
lardmanyep, sounds like you made a mistake in the conf file13:43
lardmanIt doesn't check the modules for compliance before loading them, so that's not it13:44
lardmandid you create a .cmd file?13:44
lardmandid you rename the dummy.cmd file and place it in /lib/dsp/modules/ for example13:44
derfYes, I did.13:44
lardman(as you're not supposed to do this :))13:44
derfWell, it didn't work when I didn't do that, either.13:44
lardmandummy.cmd is just used for the compilation/linking process13:44
lardmanok, so did you remove the cmd file path from dsp_dldavs.conf?13:45
lardmandsp_dls_avs.conf even13:45
lardmanargh, I can't type13:45
derfI tried it both with and without the .cmd file.13:45
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derfWithout the file, it was also not specified in the .conf.13:46
lardmanI'll have a look at lunch time in ~1hr13:46
derfHmm, although...13:46
derfI noticed the .o file was around 97k, which of course seems ridiculously large.13:47
* Stskeeps ponders if there's some no-brainer ways to speed up qemu-arm13:47
derfSo I trimmed some of the crap out that wasn't really supposed to be compiled in.13:47
lardmanhmm, what happened in the compiler output? Did it strip the tinkernel?13:47
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derf(kiss_fft.c and kiss_fftr.c aren't needed if you're using dsplib, which we are)13:47
derfWhen I was trying without the .cmd, it was with the 97k file.13:48
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lardmanyeah, mine looks to be ~96k and I know that stripped ok13:48
derfWell, now it's down to ~75k.13:48
derf(and I can make that smaller, if need be, but it involves some work setting up static modes)13:48
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lardmanI wouldn't expect the size to be an issue at dsp kernel startup time though13:49
derfAnd that appears to actually load.13:49
derfHowever, now I get: Open DSP device error:: Device or resource busy13:50
lardmanah ok13:50
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lardmanwell that's interesting13:50
lardmansize issue at dsp kernel startup13:50
lardmanok, so now what you need to do is open a separate terminal window and run "dsp_dld -p" in it13:50
derfI did.13:50
lardmanok, so has it told you what the error is?13:50
derfNo, it output absolutely nothing at all.13:51
derfI mean, after the initial startup messages.13:51
lardmanyeah, you have to try quite a few times13:51
lardmansometimes it doesn't output the error for some reason13:51
derfloading /lib/dsp/modules/celttask.o.13:51
derfsymbol __lmpysu not found13:51
lardmanindeed :)13:51
lardmanok, so there it is13:51
lardmanI don't have the source in front of me I'm afraid13:52
derfIt looks to be a 16.16 signed-unsigned multiply.13:53
derfNot sure where it's supposed to be defined, but in theory one of the TI libraries.13:53
lardmanis it something your code tries to use?13:53
derfIn fixed_c5x.h13:53
lardmanalthough many of the library files are compiled in, perhaps that one isn't13:54
derfSo it should be coming from dsplib.13:54
lardmanis dsplib a static lib though, it probably pulls in the parts it needs13:54
lardmanand perhaps that wasn't one of the,13:54
derfIt was certainly needed.13:54
lardmanno, I mean in the dsp kernel, as that already has many of the libraries compiled in13:55
lardmancurious that you didn't get a linker error when you compiled though13:55
lardmanis your machine running Diablo?13:56
lardmanah, you've probably linked against the wrong dsp kernel13:56
derfOh, well where do I get the right one?13:56
crashanddieI HAVE A JOB :D13:56
derfcrashanddie: Congrats.13:56
lardmanderf: /lib/dsp/avs_kernel.out13:56
GeneralAntillescrashanddie gets to be a productive member of society now!13:57
trickie|workcrashanddie: nice one, congrats13:57
lardmancrashanddie: congrats13:57
crashanddiecheers everyone13:57
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derflardman|afk: Well, I linked against the dspgw-os2008/avs_kernel.out, which does differ from dspgw-diablo/avs_kernel.out, so I'm not sure that's it.13:59
derfYeah, that's identical to the one I have on the device.14:00
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hrwlardman|afk: if your machine lack sata controller and price of pata disks are much bigger then sata ones then consider buying sata controller...14:06
lcukcrashanddie, hearty congrats, and you must be so relieved :)14:08
* lcuk raises a glass14:08
crashanddiecheers :)14:10
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lardmanderf: ok, the 2008 one is probably the same for chinook + diablo14:11
lardmanthe other one is for the 77014:11
derflardman: It differs from the one in dspgw-diablo14:11
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lardmanso you've linked against the right one anyway?14:12
derfAlso, for reference lmpysu appears nowhere in /opt/ti_dsptools/14:12
derfAnd is ungoogleable.14:12
lardmanok, including in the dsplib? Is that in that tarball?14:12
derf(which is odd, because I know Google indexes CELT's git repo)14:13
derflardman: Including dsplib, untarred.14:13
lcukinclude the _     _lmpysu14:13
derfGoogle normally strips all punctuation... I guess I have no idea what they consider punctuation.14:14
derfBut that does indeed turn up the CELT source.14:14
lcukgoogle is word based an_ is considered part of a word14:14
derfAnd nothing else.14:14
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lardmanI wonder if that is a c64x dsplib fn; who wrote your dsp code?14:20
derfI don't know... some guy JM was working with.14:21
lardmanI'd be surprised if multiplies were in the dsplib rather than in the main code14:21
derfWhatever "the main code" is.14:22
lardmanwhat is MULT16_16SU supposed to do?14:22
lardmanah, main code being the headers and asm which comes with the toolchain14:22
lardmanwithouth the extra libs14:22
lardmanwithout needing the extra libs that is14:22
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lardman gives a list of intrinics, which I guess that would be14:28
RST38h  <== photoshop?14:28
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lardmanderf: what does the su on the end signify? Multiply signed and then make unsigned?14:29
lardmanor vice versa?14:29
zetheroo-ubuntuI cannot install maemo-mapper on my N810 ... says a package is missing14:29
lardmanzetheroo-ubuntu: which package.....?14:29
derflardman: Multiply a signed number by an unsigned one.14:30
GeneralAntillesThere's something wrong with the one in Diablo Extras.14:30
zetheroo-ubuntulardman: I'll check now14:30
RST38hTwo files get installed into ///14:30
derfSo the result is still signed, but only one operand has a sign bit.14:30
RST38hThat is what is wrong14:30
RST38hGod knows why it worked for me though: probably didn't delete older files14:30
lardmanderf: int _smpy(int src1, int src2); Multiplies src1 and src2, and shifts the result left by 1. Produces a saturated 16-bit result. (SATD and FRCT bits set)14:31
lardmanthat's all there is in the instriniscs for the c5514:31
lardman(and a version which handles longs)14:31
zetheroo-ubuntulardman: just says "Unable to install maemo-mapper"14:32
lardmanzetheroo-ubuntu: see GeneralAntilles' comment14:33
zetheroo-ubuntuoh ... something wrong ... ok14:33
zetheroo-ubuntuyeah .. casue now its not there anymore14:33
GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, give it a week.14:33
zetheroo-ubuntuok ,,,14:34
zetheroo-ubuntumap is saying its a triel app14:34
zetheroo-ubuntuwhats up with that?14:34
lardmanderf: p49, it's a c64x intrinisc14:35
zetheroo-ubuntuis there any other program for GPS that can be used freely in Maemo?14:35
zetheroo-ubuntuare they free-of-charge14:36
GeneralAntillesYou did specify "freely" didn't you? ;)14:37
zetheroo-ubuntuyes ... thanks14:37
zetheroo-ubuntuwoudl they all be in the repos?14:37
lardmanno, check Garage14:37
RST38hScratch Navit and Roadmap14:38
zetheroo-ubuntuwhy? ... no good?14:38
derflardman: Aha.14:38
lardmanthough really you maty as well grab the previous version of maemo-mapper from Garage, the others are less polished (so far)14:38
RST38hNeither really works =(14:38
lardmanderf: looks like he assumed14:38
zetheroo-ubuntuwell up until now I have been having an extremely difficult time getting the GPS going on the N810 ...14:39
derfI mean, supposedly the guy actually has a c55x, since he gave us performance numbers for it.14:39
zetheroo-ubuntutakes forever to lock on and looses the lock very easily14:39
GeneralAntillesI wonder if we could talk Nokia into putting some polish on Maemo Mapper.14:39
lardmanderf: strange, perhaps he implemented the fn himself in a header and forgot to push it?14:39
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lardmanderf: I'm sure you can create a wrapped pretty quickly14:40
zetheroo-ubuntuwill GPS work better with some software than with others? .. or is it just all about the hardware?14:40
lardmanGPS is the hardware14:40
lardmanand yes, it's the hardware+firmware combo which is good or bad14:41
zetheroo-ubuntuso no matter what the software I will always battle like this to get the lock on.... sigh ... :(14:41
GeneralAntillesInstall agps14:41
lardmanuse agps-ui though to give yourself a headstart14:41
zetheroo-ubuntuI have installed agps ....14:41
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zetheroo-ubuntubut its almost an empty app14:41
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zetheroo-ubuntulike there are not buttons14:42
lardmanyou tap on the map14:42
lardmanand it handles the rest14:42
lardmanmake sure you close the app before trying the gps tho14:42
derflardman: There _is_ already a generic version.14:42
derfHowever JM doesn't think the SU case is handled correctly in it.14:43
zetheroo-ubuntuclose the app before trying the gps? ...14:43
zetheroo-ubuntuI don't get it...14:43
zetheroo-ubuntuwhats the app for?14:43
derflardman: However, just using that for now gets me to:14:44
derfsymbol _cbrev32 not found14:44
derflink failed.14:44
derfAnd that _is_ in dsplib.14:44
zetheroo-ubuntuso I should open agps and then close it? ... and then use map or another GPS mapping app?14:45
lcukzetheroo-ubuntu, having a best guess pre-estimate of location so that the system doesnt have to start from scratch everytime14:45
lardmanzetheroo-ubuntu: whichever app you want to use14:45
lardmanderf: let me have a look14:46
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derfAll I did was comment out the #undef/#define pairs for MULT16_16SU and MULT_16_16 in fixed_c5x.h.14:46
zetheroo-ubuntulcuk: so its not something I can use to actually view GPS maps...14:46
lardmanderf: looks like the dsplib is actually lots of asm, it may be that that fn is not included in the dsp_kernel, so just stick it in the list of sources and see what happends14:48
derfStick what in the list of sources?14:48
xorAxAxany idea how i can get a package that is only avaialble in 4.1 running on 4.0? normal debian backporting procedure?14:48
lcukxorAxAx, yes14:51
lcuk1)grab source14:52
lcuk2)change refs14:52
lcuk3) ???14:52
xorAxAxok :)14:52
lcuk4) hopefully profit14:52
derflardman: It appears none of the FFT functions are linked in.14:53
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derfManually adding .asm files seems like the wrong way to do this. This is what we have linkers _for_.14:54
lardmanwell the library comes uncompiled from the looks of it14:55
lardmanoh no, I tell a lie14:55
lardmanwhat happened when you did try to link against the .lib?14:55
lardmanI seem to remember seeing some "already defined" style warnings14:56
derfNo, target mismatch warnings.14:56
derfWell, errors.14:56
lardmanyou need to link against the 55xdspx.lib file14:58
lardmannot the other one (without the x)14:58
derfAha! (why are there two if one of them is wrong?)14:59
lardmanlarge and small memory models14:59
lardmanand there are other models for which you'd need to recompile yourself14:59
derfStill getting _cfft32_SCALE not found.15:00
derfAnd now my DSP appears to be hosed.15:01
lardmanoh no, seems that SCALE is correct15:01
derfBut hey, at least I was able to reload several times before having to pull the battery to restart it this time.15:01
lardmanah yes, DSP crashing is usual, it's unstable15:01
lardmantry "dspctl reset" instead15:02
derfOh, it already rebooted the device for me.15:02
derfWhich is, like, convenience itself.15:02
lardmanah, if dsp_dld stays down too long you get that15:02
lardmanyou have to be quick on the draw ;)15:02
lardmanI also thing diablo is a bit slower to reset, but perhaps I've just become faster15:04
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derfOkay, working through some more things...15:07
derfIt looks like it links now.15:08
derfsection .fftcode: could not find directive. placing it to default memory (DARAM).15:08
derfsection .fftcode: size = 0x0001ba, align = 0x1 ... no space left in DARAM!15:08
derfsection .fftcode: failed to place!15:08
lardmanwill you push the changes somewhere? I'll have quite a backlog to get up-to-date15:08
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derfYeah, at some point.15:08
lardmanok, looks like you need a linker cmd file after all15:08
lardmangrep .fftcode and see what the #PRAGMA says15:08
lardmanactually you don;t even need to do that15:09
derfIt's from the dsplib asm, no pragma.15:09
lardmanmight be worth knowing how large the data to be placed in that section are though15:09
derfsize = 0x0001ba,15:09
lardmanhang on, I'll write you a cmd file15:10
JamieBennettlardman: Your not going to the ELC in Ede at the beginning of November are you?15:11
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lardmanJamieBennett: not that I know of, how much does it cost?15:11
JamieBennett80 euro for independants15:11
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JamieBennett£100 for the flight15:12
lardmancash is a bit tight atm, paying for wedding15:12
hrwI wonder how they decide are you pro or ind15:12
lardmanso probably not I'm afraid15:12
RST38hyour own wedding?15:12
JamieBennetthrw: If you affiliated with a company I suppose15:12
hrwlardman: you are marrying?15:13
hrwJamieBennett: I have own one-person company15:13
hrwand worked for CELF in past15:13
hrwas company15:13
JamieBennetthrw: Is it embedded linux based?15:13
hrwJamieBennett: openembedded/poky consulting is embedded linux15:13
GeneralAntillesSo far, positive responses on Pidgin, gnokii, stardict, and all of fiferboy's stuff.15:13
lardmanmake that
JamieBennetthrw: Then I suppose you _should_ pay the full whack but if your not going to be recognised then ...15:14
derfAnd replace dummy.cmd with that in the Makefile, I assume?15:14
lardmanderf: you might want to chance the alignment eventually to produce faster code, I'm not sure15:14
lardmanno, no need to do any recompiling now15:14
RST38hGeneral: Fiferboy's on-screen icon dock does not work properly15:15
lardmanjust stick that on the device in ../modules/ and give the path in dsp_dld_avs.conf15:15
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's still beta.15:15
RST38hConfig crashes and the dock itself crashes as well15:15
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RST38hYea, I know... Just wouldn't recommend it to people at the moment15:15
GeneralAntillesWell, it is in Extras-devel. :P15:15
JamieBennetthrw: If you decide to go then drop me a mail, we can meet up for a beer15:16
derfsection .twiddle32: size = 0x002000, align = 0x4 ... no space left in DARAM!15:16
derfsection .twiddle32: failed to place!15:16
derfCan that also go in EXTMEM2?15:16
lardmanderf: yep, anywhere you want it to go15:17
lardmanjust stick in another line in the SECTIONS {} list15:18
lardmanit might be worth moving them all to SARAM in truth, but let's get it running first hey15:18
RST38hGeneral: It is in Extras too15:20
RST38hGeneral: Just doesn't work well (causing me some discomfort :))15:20
GeneralAntillesIt is, isn't it.15:20
derfWoohoo! adding _task_testcelt(@15711c) into system.15:21
derfSegmentation fault15:21
derfAnd that's all the time I have to work on this today.15:21
lardmanderf: just fyi a list of the previously declared MEMORY and SECTIONS can be found in /lib/dsp/avs_kernelcfg.cmd15:21
lardmanderf: segfault, nice15:21
derfThe segfault is from the ARM side testcelt.15:22
lardmanwell do upload the changes and I'll take a look at it too15:22
derfSo maybe not that bad.15:22
lardmanah ok, not so bad then15:22
lardmaneasier to debug anyway :)15:22
lardmancool :)15:25
derfI moved your testcelt.c to celttask.c so I wouldn't have to worry about overwriting it when copying source around.15:25
lardmanyou wanted to split it into 2 separate tasks? encode + decode?15:26
derfI think you also had a bksnd where you meant to have a bkreq.15:26
derflardman: Or make one task that does multiple operations.15:26
lardmanquite possible15:26
derfUsually if you're doing one, you want both anyway.15:26
derfJust not at the same time.15:26
derfAnyway, I can write that code once I figure out how to get things to actually run.15:27
derfWriting code is the easy part.15:27
lardmanok, np15:27
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Barnabashey...can anybody told me why i get a "permission denied" by executing "./blabal.bin".....the file has "x":):(16:08
lardmanon the mmc card?16:08
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Barnabasähm yes?)16:08
lardmannot allowed to execute anything on them16:08
lardmanmount option16:08
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Barnabasthe padawan had a lot to learn...16:10
RST38hMaybe it is a windows executable too? =)16:12
Barnabasoh now i get diff: not found.....---: not found.....+++:not found....@@:not found....syntax error:word unexpected(expecting")")....16:13
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RST38hyou get it by typing random stuff into the console16:25
RST38hIt may be easier for us all if you just tell what exactly you want to achieve16:25
Barnabasok sry:)16:26
Barnabasi try to execute the attachment-001.bin ...the driver-patch to get wpa_supplicant work16:26
RST38hWho told you to execute it? Where did you get it from?16:27
Barnabasa link in a forum on ITT :
RST38hok, reading...16:28
RST38hOk. The attachment-001.bin is really a source code patch.16:29
RST38hYou are supposed to apply this patch to the cx3110x driver SOURCE CODE and then compile and use the patched driver.16:29
RST38hYou cannot execute the patch> even although it has .bin extension, it is just a piece of text.16:29
RST38hAm I being clear enough?16:30
Barnabasoh ok...16:30
Barnabasyes sure16:30
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Barnabasbut...sry im tired right now from university.....what i have to do now?....find the orig driverfile an override the source and compile?:(16:32
RST38hYou should not worry about this stuff16:32
RST38hYou should also ask the original patch provider to post the patched and compiled driver16:33
infobotRST38h meant: You should also plead the original patch provider to post the patched and compiled driver16:33
Barnabasmh ok i ask:) thanks you16:34
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melmothanybody experience strange gconf behaviour since diablo ?16:40
melmothi cannot destroy old key in scratchbox16:40
melmothno error message, but no change. works with new keys16:40
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melmoththere is definitevly something completly weird with the way gconftool-2 manage gconf entry in diablo17:06
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melmothit just "does not work" nor on scractchbox, nor on the tablet17:06
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melmoththe keys appears as present even if they are not there anymore. changes occurs after a reboot.17:06
melmoththat is, as far as app are concerned, the goncftool still show them as present17:07
* melmoth is puzzled17:07
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Barnabaswhere can i find the startup-picture and the sound?17:19
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Barnabasok i found the png but not yet the sound-file17:23
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RST38h7999! 7999!17:48
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GeneralAntillesZombies yet?17:50
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RST38hGeneral: Dunno, I only see bears with vodka bottls17:51
jottwe need a big dow home screen applet. rejoice!17:51
RST38hjott: With Wall Street webcam watching the pavement17:52
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.17:53
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I got your email. I can try but I may have to get X-Fade to sort out my SSH keys for me17:53
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RST38hHow familiar17:53
qwerty12I realised my keys were on there *after* I formatted my Linux partition :P17:53
RST38hDo those SSH keys will *ever* work from the first attempt? =)17:54
RST38hOh, you need another invite...17:54
qwerty12*sigh*, I'll reboot into Linux and generate another pair and bug X-Fade :P17:55
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crashanddieIceland is for sale -- on eBay. It has great scenery and wildlife but the financial situation is in need of repair and a buyer must collect in person. Bidding started at 99 pence but had reached 10 million pounds ($17.28 million) by mid-morning on Friday.17:59
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crashanddieGlobally renowned singer Bjork was “not included” in the sale, according to the notice, but there were nonetheless 26 anonymous bidders and 84 bids. “Located in the mid-Atlantic ridge in the North Atlantic Ocean, Iceland will provide the winning bidder with — a habitable environment, Icelandic Horses and admittedly a somewhat sketchy financial situation,” the notice reads.18:00
RST38hcrash: There are rumors that .RU gov is buying it for $4b in loans18:00
RST38hToo many offshores there, can't allow it to fail18:00
crashanddieBidders’ questions included: “Do you offer volcano/earthquake insurance?”, “Is it possible that my payment will be frozen?”, “Is this the tip of the iceberg?” and “Will you accept C.O.D. as a form of payment?”18:00
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: pong18:01
crashanddieanyway, I'm off, gotta celebrate :)18:01
crashanddietake care people, see you next week, or sumthin18:01
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qwerty12Oh yeah, did qole's chroot mess get fixed?18:02
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, broken links on Downloads:
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: SDK18:03
GeneralAntillesBora and Gregale under the OS & SDK section on the right column are broken18:04
X-FadeYes, that is a SDK issue. Or the documentation team.18:04
X-FadeI didn't break those links :)18:04
X-FadeThey export this documentation from an external system. So I guess something broke there or they reorganized?18:05
X-FadeI can fix the links to point at a new location of course.18:05
GeneralAntillesfiferboy pushed some categorization fixes18:06
GeneralAntillesSoooo slooooow18:06
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X-FadePersonal Menu will have a better category too.18:07
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X-FadeAh yeah, that is fiferboy :)18:07
X-FadeI mailed with him.18:07
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GeneralAntillesThat's what they should point to.18:11
jottqwerty12: export DEBFULLNAME="xxx" && export DEBEMAIL="xxx@yyy.zz"18:13
qwerty12Thank you jott, but I'm still getting the "+3: No such file or directory" :(18:14
qwerty12I'll try reexporting EDITOR18:14
qwerty12Yep, that worked :)18:14
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zshi, what's wrong with, i am trying to connect but i got xml parser error :/18:16
infoboti heard upload-extras is
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qwerty12X-Fade: I lost my old SSH key, is it possible to just change the ssh key that is on the Account Maintenance page, or should I request another invite?18:20
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X-Fadeqwerty12: Just replace it on that account page.18:30
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qwerty12X-Fade: Is recreating an PGP key necessary? If so, I can't see an option to put that on the same page. I lost that too due to reformatting.18:31
X-FadeNo, not if you still have it ;)18:31
X-FadeIt you lost it, I do need to send you a new invitation.18:32
qwerty12Yeah, I'll need to do that. I'm on the page right now :)18:32
X-Fadeqwerty12: Mail is on it's way ;)18:32
qwerty12Ah, ok, thanks!18:32
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qwerty12Got it, thank you!18:32
qwerty12I want to reupload by today :)18:33
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qwerty12I'm also thinking about removing the shell spawning feature of rootsh18:34
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Stskeepsqwerty12: happy birthday!18:34
qwerty12It doesn't set environment variables properly. I'll replace it with a printf telling the person to use root18:34
qwerty12Stskeeps: Thanks! :)18:35
X-Fade#3798 -> Fixed18:35
X-FadeHmm it would be cool if a bot could announce that ;)18:36
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, what, bug closings?18:37
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sure.18:37
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, jott's mostly there.18:37
X-Fadego jott!18:37
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GeneralAntillesEither give him some incentive to finish it or some disincentive towards procrastinating further. ;)18:38
qoleStskeeps: you really need to remember that IRC is publically logged: "qole really needs to learn how to present though"18:38
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X-FadeOops ;)18:39
*** X-Fade sets mode: +cnt 18:39
*** X-Fade sets mode: +v jott18:39
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qoleqwerty12: drinking age yet?18:39
qwerty12X-Fade: In all those mode settings, you forgot to set +u ;)18:40
X-FadeOk, there is his incentive ;)18:40
qwerty12qole: 2 years yet :p18:40
X-Fadeqwerty12: Dirty mind ;)18:40
qwerty12True :P18:40
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qoleqwerty12: no hurry, you'll spend the  rest of your  life wishing you were a teen again...18:43
qwerty12qole: Sounds good... :)18:44
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qoleIn my defence, I did my summit presentation on a new tablet that I had been given 20 mins before...18:46
qoleI was the only one to try video out from  the tablet...18:46
GeneralAntillesNow Stskeeps really has to blow us away with his presentation during the next summit. ;)18:47
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qoleAnd definitely the only one to use the app that I used on the tablet to present...18:48
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qolebut that was my punchline, so i  won't say what I used.18:49
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qole... I broke extras-devel last night. Thankfully I fixed my package, so it's ok now.18:50
qoleturns out you can't have a blank 'Depends:' line (blush)18:51
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Stskeepsqole: yup, but an honest observation - it got better as it progressed, and my initial presentations were similar18:54
Stskeepscos all ones nervousity causes one to act in strange ways18:55
Stskeepsbut good use of surprise in the end18:56
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dnearyDid you nituce that Bluetooth_PAN and Bluetooth_networking are essentially the same subject?18:57
GeneralAntillesYeah, PAN I mostly created new.18:58
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GeneralAntillesDidn't have the energy to go through networking and see if there was anything useful.18:58
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GeneralAntillesSomebody with more Bluetooth experience than myself really needs to look at it.18:58
dnearyI'd just drop it18:59
dnearyThe networking article was mostly reviewed after the wiki migration IIRC18:59
dnearyThat nituce was supposed to be a notice19:00
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dnearyI can't see where this article came from:
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dnearyThe [[Category:Midgard wiki]] is useful19:03
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Any objection to me removing Bluetooth_PAN as a duplicate?19:11
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GeneralAntillesUm, this: in preference to it?19:12
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GeneralAntillesYes, I object.19:13
GeneralAntillesThe Bluetooth networking article is basically irrelevant to OS200819:13
GeneralAntillesI mean, look at it.19:13
GeneralAntillesBluetooth_PAN is short, sweet, and accurate.19:14
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Stskeepslo cyrus19:20
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cyrus__Stskeeps - are you the one on internettablettalk that got debian to work on the n8x0?19:22
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Stskeepscyrus__: well johnx started with a friendly dist originally and we worked together making a proper dist19:25
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cyrus__Stskeeps - do you know of a way - on the n810 - to replace the hildon desktop with something like xfce or lxde (like you did in deblet)?19:27
Stskeepspeople have done kde19:28
cyrus__on the n810?19:28
Stskeepsyeah, in maemo19:28
Stskeepsbut its more trouble than what its worth often19:29
Stskeepswe try to do a proper alternative os19:29
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GeneralAntillesI don't know how anybody can use KDE on the tablets.19:30
cyrus__ya..i am looking to stick with maemo (do to the applications available for it) but really do't like the hildon desktop19:31
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm starting to see the appeal of deblet+hildon though19:31
StsN800cyrus__, i hope to be able to port maemo extras apps quite straight to deblet eventually though19:34
StsN800but xfce on maemo might give similar issues though19:35
StsN800cyrus__, what apps do you miss on deblet?19:39
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korgothhey guys19:47
korgothanyone aroudn19:48
summatusmentisI'm not19:49
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korgoth i installed something called switchboard on my n81019:55
korgoththen rebooted and now the device keeps rebooting constantly19:55
korgothanyone had this problem?19:55
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles: I've uploaded a new version of rootsh including the change from user/accessories to user/tools. As I've made a few other changes, I'll leave it in extras-devel (both chinook and diablo) until someone can verify 1.4 works fine. I'd happily test but this charger f***ed up after 2 hours of usage >.<20:03
GeneralAntillesOrder 3 or 4 this time. :P20:03
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qwerty12I really should do... :P. It can be my own present :P20:04
lcukqwerty12, did i see somewhere its your birthday20:04
qwerty12lcuk: yep :)20:04
lcukahhh yes, happy birthday :)20:04
qwerty12Thanks lcuk :)20:04
lcuknow why are you faffing on here and not gettin drunk (on lemonade)20:05
qwerty12I'm more of a coca cola guy :P20:05
lcukdid anyone think to wrap you up a multipack of chargers?20:06
lcukinfact, nokia should find you a fuelcell batterypack20:06
lcukyou can have a reason to but alcohol then :D20:07
qwerty12Honestly, I thought this one would be it. I was using it normally and the tablet shutdown while "charging". Now the N800 starts up when I put it in but shuts off in a few seconds. Putting in my brother's charger works >.<20:07
qwerty12Lol :D20:07
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qwerty12I don't know what sort of magic touch I have with Nokia chargers...20:08
qwerty12Probably because I'm more of a Sony Ericsson fan20:08
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lcuknothing a sharpie cannot solve20:11
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crashanddieWe need a special holiday to honour the countless kind souls with unsecured networks named 'linksys'.20:28
qwerty12And "NETGEAR" =)20:29
crashanddieand Belkin54g20:29
qwerty12Though I remember being connected to a kind souls belkin 54g when I was up north in Halifax20:29
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cyrus__anyone know the package that provides the e2fsprogs?20:39
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koyotehrm. time to sell the n800 and get another toy20:52
crashanddiekoyote, why is that?20:54
korgothok guys anyone help with a reboot loop?20:54
koyotewell, i want to get an 810, in a bit20:54
korgothcrashanddie: cant manage to get into usb mode20:55
crashanddieI'm out20:55
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koyotei like the 800, it's great and all, and I've done the bt keyboard thing20:55
koyotebut for my personal needs as they stand now i need an 81020:55
crashanddieand GeneralAntilles be happy, I'll be the one participating in your pension, old man20:56
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, you said earlier I'd finally contribute to society in a productive way20:56
crashanddieI still don't know why20:56
koyotei guess the question is do i craigslist it or not?20:56
crashanddieI can't shake the idea of you being like, a wise old guy, 50 something20:57
moontigerkoyote, how much for?20:57
moontigerwho's 50?20:57
crashanddieIn my perverted mind only, that is20:57
* moontiger gogs20:57
crashanddieBut IRL he's like 2220:57
crashanddieor 2120:57
GeneralAntilles21 on Monday20:58
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GeneralAntillesMy sage wisdom is just too overwhelming, crashanddie? :P ;)20:58
crashanddieI'll have to recover your cell phone number from the logs and wish you happy birthday then20:58
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, well, that's exactly it20:58
GeneralAntillesSadly I'm having dental surgery on my birthday. :(20:58
crashanddieI'm off to get very very drunk20:58
crashanddiecheers everyone20:59
crashanddieand why the fuck is jott vop?20:59
GeneralAntillesaccording to X-Fade21:00
GeneralAntillesBut I'm not sure what the angle is.21:00
koyotemoontiger: on CL, going rate, i figure on here I'd go a bit less.21:01
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.21:02
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koyotemoontiger: are you looking?21:03
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eichi_PDAhow to end turn in freeciv21:08
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lcukGeneralAntilles, have you seen jussi's latest email21:23
GeneralAntillesAbout the t-shirts?21:23
lcukyeah :'( we want booth babes instead21:24
dnearyhey hey21:24
lcukhi dave21:24
dnearyI'm a fan of smaller t-shirts in general21:24
dnearyI like the tight look21:25
GeneralAntillesMy maemo shirt is way too big.21:25
dnearyAnd they're always too big21:25
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I got me an L and an M21:25
lcukwear multiple shirts then21:25
dnearyso what does lcuk stand for?21:25
lcukit was temporary, but my slashdot nick is liquidcoooled21:26
lcuk3 o's gen :P21:26
GeneralAntillesI normally wear M with an undershirt21:26
GeneralAntillesOh? Didn't ever notice that.21:26
dnearyLooking into council permissions21:26
dnearyBut I don't understand how it works21:26
eichi_PDAhow to end turn in freeciv21:26
lcukGeneralAntilles, the guy at liquidcooled@hotmail mustv thought the same for years21:26
* lcuk is happy with liquid@gmail for now :)21:27
GeneralAntillesdneary, I think the group is pulled from the Garage project page21:27
GeneralAntillesseems like anybody with admin should be able to edit it, though.21:27
GeneralAntillesand Tim should have admin.21:27
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: were you the only one in the group before?21:27
GeneralAntillesI created it.21:27
GeneralAntillesMaybe X-Fade pulled the list before I added everybody else?21:27
* lcuk ponders a final test before pushing to extras21:28
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Can you check that you can blog?21:31
dnearyI'm looking at the permissions, and it looks like Niels is the only writer right now21:31
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GeneralAntillesCreate article seems to work.21:34
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dnearyI obviously don't understand how it's set up, so I'll leave it to Niels to fix if there's fixing needed21:37
dnearyYou're right, that the group is imported direct from Garage21:38
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moontigerkoyote sorry for the delay ... im working ... im kinda interested but i have an n810 ... was thinking for a friend but its not important right now21:38
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GeneralAntillesI really like thp's idea for the search.21:41
korgothok isnt there anyone able to help resolve this fucking reboot loop issue?!21:41
GeneralAntilleskorgoth, there are a lot of causes for reboot loops.21:42
GeneralAntillesDo you have bootmenu installed?21:42
korgothno i dont21:42
GeneralAntillesDo you have sshd and wifi autoconnect enabled?21:42
GeneralAntillesThen your options are pretty much limited to getting an initfs image with usbnet and telnet/ssh and flashing it, then getting a console over usb.21:43
korgothi dont care if i had to reflash it - i just cant manage to to that either21:43
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infobotmethinks flashing is
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korgothGeneralAntilles: i cant manage to get into reflash mode under windows21:45
GeneralAntillesTurn it off21:46
korgothi hold the switch button and turn on the device21:46
GeneralAntillesplug in the usb cable21:46
korgoththen when i see the usb icon i release the switch button and nothing happens21:46
GeneralAntillesDoes the USB icon stay there?21:46
korgothit disapears21:46
GeneralAntillesYou have the usb cable plugged directly into the computer?21:46
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GeneralAntillesIt's not plugged into power, right?21:47
korgothtried both plugged and unplugged21:47
korgothsame result21:47
GeneralAntillesLeave it unplugged21:48
GeneralAntillesTry a different USB port?21:48
korgothtried a different pc too21:48
GeneralAntillesIt'll wait until the battery runs out in flashing mode if you hold down the swap button while powering up21:48
GeneralAntillesThe only time it wont is if USB isn't connected21:49
GeneralAntillesMight be the cable21:49
GeneralAntillesDoes the computer see the tablet at all?21:49
korgothyes it does, but then the blue progress bar gets to abour 80% the blue led flashes and then the device reboots, and the computers says "n810 disconneceted"21:50
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GeneralAntillesAre you sure you're holding down the swap button?21:50
GeneralAntillesTwo overlapping rectangles on left front face21:51
GeneralAntillestopmost of the two buttons there.21:51
GeneralAntillesTry this, make sure it's off and unplugged from both USB and power21:52
GeneralAntillesremove the battery for a few seconds21:52
GeneralAntillesreplace the battery21:52
GeneralAntillesplug in the USB cable21:52
GeneralAntilleshold down the swap button21:52
GeneralAntillesthen turn it on while holding down swap21:52
korgothwhen i release the swap button the usb icon just disappears21:54
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GeneralAntillesDid you start the flasher Windows-side?21:55
korgothtrying again21:56
korgothfor 1238120312 time :)21:56
korgothi do have to release the swap button when i see usb icon, right?21:56
GeneralAntillesYou should be able to.21:57
GeneralAntillesI don't know that you have to.21:57
korgothiot rebooted so many times that im wopndering how isnt the battery dead yet,..21:58
korgothat least 50 reboots21:58
mgedmin ouch21:59
korgothill turn it off21:59
korgothand charge it for a few hrs21:59
korgoththen will try again :-(22:00
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disco_stunew to maemo+22:19
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lcukhiya disco_stu22:21
disco_stuis there any chatting about IT's here ?22:21
Stskeepsthis is one of the places we make things happen ;)22:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I'll try to find out why the other members can't blog, later this weekend. (I hope.. busy weekend)22:22
disco_stugood to know22:22
disco_stui own an n80022:22
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, shouldn't admins have access anyway?22:23
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, you are webeditor too.22:23
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So that is why you can do that.22:24
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: The others should get rights based on the group they are in.22:24
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Which should work.. :)22:24
GeneralAntillesComments aren't actually working, either.22:24
mgedminany news about the extras-devel breakage?22:25
disco_stuis there anyone that could send sms with the IT through his symbian phone ?22:25
X-Fademgedmin: I didn't touch it.22:25
X-Fademgedmin: But Marcell was going to look at it.22:25
GeneralAntillesIt's refreshing fine here, mgedmin.22:25
mgedminoh, I should've checked my mail22:26
X-Fademgedmin: So maybe he did something ;)22:26
mgedminthe autobuilder needs a 'retry, it wasn't my fault!' button22:26
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X-Fadedneary: Why are you editing the community council folder? :)22:27
X-Fadedneary: Don't hide, I can see you..22:27
X-FadeIt is locked ;)22:28
koyotemoontiger: i'm in and out a bit, but i queried22:28
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ah, they only had read ;)22:30
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I guess that is not enough :D22:30
dnearyX-Fade: I wasn't editing it22:30
dnearyJust looking at the user access rights22:30
dnearyWhich seemed funny22:30
dnearyI was trying to fix the problem that no-one other than GA could blog22:30
X-FadeYeah, it locks it. That is why I saw you were active :)22:31
GeneralAntilles"Fix" . . . sure, sure. :P22:31
dnearyI refer the honourable gentleman to the statement I gave some moments ago:22:31
dnearyI obviously don't understand how it's set up, so I'll leave it to Niels to fix if there's fixing needed22:31
X-FadeNo, when in doubt ask: His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles22:32
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X-FadeI just edited the permissions and added create and update. Let's see if that helps ;)22:33
GeneralAntillesThen I'll proceed to incessantly nag the person who actually knows.22:34
GeneralAntillesAs I'm sure X-Fade can attest. ;)22:34
X-Fade /ignore GeneralAntilles22:34
X-FadeOh, shit ;)22:34
X-FadeYou were not supposed to see that..22:34
* GeneralAntilles fires off a barrage of emails.22:34
X-FadeClick, click, mail rule, /dev/null.. ah finally weekend ;)22:35
* GeneralAntilles starts filing blocker/high bugs.22:35
X-FadePff there is alway Monday..22:36
X-FadeHmm it doesn't want to save these permissions.22:36
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RST38hGeneral: Are there any blocker bugs at the moment?22:49
GeneralAntillesFor or Maemo Software?22:50
GeneralAntillesEither way, no, there aren't any open blockers.22:51
*** hrw is now known as hrw|gone22:52 seems to be a big blocker by itself nowadays22:52
GeneralAntillesI wish there were a bugzilla search URL sanitizer22:53
RST38hsome really scary bugs there: RTCOM-beta-os2 2.1-15 causes endless reboots cycle22:53
GeneralAntillesEh, it's not in the shipping firmware22:54
GeneralAntillesPeople should be aware of the risks of installing testing software.22:54
lcukyes, they should be aware, but a major clanger like that can ruin someones day and really gives a negative impression22:55
GeneralAntillesIt's long since fixed.22:56
lcukthen all is good22:56
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Stskeeps-os2? :P23:03
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