IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-10-09

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derfHah, so it is.00:00
derfBut anyway, it's probably a good idea to use the hand-optimized assembly FFT, since TI went through the trouble of writing one for us.00:01
lardmanI symlinked it00:01
lardmanalso need to symlink TMS320.h to its lowercase counterpart00:01
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lardman~lart bloody Gnome filemanager for locking up the desktop, then giving me some crap about backend not supported when copying from one dir to another!00:04
* infobot beats bloody Gnome filemanager severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken for locking up the desktop, then giving me some crap about backend not supported when copying from one dir to another!00:04
lardmanI was going to upload the new Makefile00:05
lardmanbut anyway, just add "-i$(TOOLS_DIR)/ccs221_content/c5500/dsplib/include" to the "INCD = blah" lines00:05
derfOh, I went and had to track down a separate copy. Because find . -name dsplib.h didn't find it, of course.00:06
derfMine's newer, anyway :).00:07
derfBut I did enjoy how the spru didn't bother to tell you where to _get_ the library.00:08
derfAnd the archive filename it suggested produced no useful Google results.00:08
lardmanarchive is a win exe :(00:09
derfIt's just a zip file.00:09
derfunzip is perfectly happy extracting from self-extracting executables.00:10
lardmanhmm, I thought inside was an exe00:10
lardmanah ok00:10
derfOkay, so now I need to get dspgw stuff setup.00:11
derfSince I don't have gen_dummy_kernel nor coff_unresolve.00:12
lardmanhmm, should all be in the "extras" tarball I sent you00:12
lardmanhang on a tick, brb00:12
derfOh, there is one.00:13
derfI wonder why I couldn't find it before.00:13
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lardmanthe Makefile + linuxdsptools_env.bash should even have the right paths setup00:25
lardmanright, that's working now, on to the next error00:26
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derfYeah, it's forcing the double-precision FFT there.00:26
derfYou'll have to #define DOUBLE_PRECISION to get kiss_fft_scalar typedef'd correctly.00:27
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lardmanwhere should that be, config.h?00:27
crashanddie_Good to know, my neighboor uses the Google Toolbar00:27
lardmancrashanddie_: ?00:27
lardmanyou peeking at their wifi traffic?00:28
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crashanddie_I'm just breathing the air.... waves00:28
lardmanderf: updated the config.h, Makefile and testcelt.c files and uploaded them00:33
lardmanMakefile looks like it needs a further tweak, getting a linker error00:34
lardmandump_modes.c contains a main() fn, is this for testing?00:35
lardmanwhole file can be removed?00:35
lardmancool, done, compiled and linked ok00:36
derfHow'd you handle the lrint stuff?00:36
lardmanYour float precision stuff got rid of the error00:36
lardmanlots of warnings in the code still though probably00:37
derfReally? Not for me.00:37
derfAnd that wasn't float precision.00:37
lardmanwhich file is this?00:37
lardmanah ok, my assumption00:37
derfcelt.c, including float_cast.h00:37
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derfIt's really only used for converting between the float API and the fixed point API, which should be eliminated by #defining DISABLE_FLOAT_API, but even with that #define, it still includes the offending header.00:38
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lardmanam just recompiling to see00:38
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badduhi lardman. can i ask a dsp related question?00:39
lardmanhmm, well I have no complier errors or warnings, just a linker error about error: symbol _kiss_fft_celt_double is defined multiple times00:39
lardmanbaddu: of course00:39
baddulardman: i want to reserve a relative large junk of memory for my dsp task. how can i know which address should i use with dspctl exmap ?00:40
lardmanderf: celt.c certainly complies for me, no problems00:40
lardmanbaddu: don't use dspctl00:40
lardmanbaddu: you should specify the address in the DSP task, then you use mmap() on the ARM side to get a pointer to that memory00:41
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baddulardman: ok, i have kind of done that but i still tougth i had to export the memory...00:42
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derflardman: kiss_fft_single.c should not be in the compilation, I don't think.00:42
lardmanbaddu: you've used the mmap_info struct on the DSP side? This is what sorts out the memory sharing00:43
lardmanderf: ok, I'll scrub it00:43
derfI got all the way to 'error: can't open file 'dummy.cmd' for input'00:44
lardmanah ok, you'll need one of those, I'll upload it00:44
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baddulardman: yes, i'm using large static arrays and mmap them to the arm side. i tought that i need to give some address when they are loaded to the dsp in the linker command file00:45
lardmanbaddu: you need to specify where the shared memory will be placed, in either your linker command file or one of the existing memory sections00:46
lardmanbaddu: you're passing data from ARM to DSP, the static data?00:46
lardmanor are you just wondering about where variables which are declared as static are placed?00:47
baddulardman: no from dsp to arm00:47
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lardmanoh, what does you code do then (so I have some background)?00:48
baddulardman: and i have static array of 2M or at least i would like to have that :)00:48
baddulardman: its the opengl es stuff, i mailed you about that some time ago...00:49
lardmanok, static data are placed in SARAM iirc (look in the avs_kernelcfg.cmd file to check the location), there's not enough space there00:49
derflardman: Okay, now I've got to 'error: linking files for incompatible targets'00:49
derfWith a bunch of .obj files inside 55xdsp.lib00:50
lardmanbaddu: so you'll need to place them in SDRAM00:50
baddulardman: ok, but there is no room for 2M strucutres I suppose00:50
lardmanderf: what libs are you trying to link against in the Makefile, is it my one?00:50
derfHuh, you aren't even linking against 55xdsp.lib00:50
derfHow does that possibly work?00:51
lardmanbaddu: you could #PRAGMA() the variable you create and place it in SDRAM00:51
lardmanbaddu: does it need to be shared with the ARM-side, or do you just need more memory to store the data?00:51
lardmanderf: you don't actually need to link against the dsplib as it's already in the dsp kernel00:52
baddulardman: well, i need to send them to the arm when i draw the stuff with X, i guess sending it othervise than mmap would be slow00:52
derfOh, okay.00:52
lardmanbaddu: but they are static values?00:53
crashanddie_lol... he actually stores isohunt on google bookmarks00:53
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badduno, sorry. not static. i meant static in that sense that not dynamically allocated00:53
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lardmanbaddu: ah, I see, so it's what, the framebuffer data?00:53
baddustatic so that always the same size00:53
baddulardman: yes, 800x480x5 values00:54
lardmanon the dsp-side use the mmap structure to define a variable which will point to your data and the size of the data00:55
lardmanyou need to #PRAGMA the location of said variable (i.e. the array) to place it somewhere in a shared memory region00:55
badduabout 2M, if i want that to be visible to the arm side i guess i have to have it in the same pointer00:55
lardmanonly one region of shared memory can be shared, so everything you want shared will have to be in the same buffer00:56
badduor the same array variable, i think i can share only one array with mmap?00:56
badduok, and besides the #PRAGMA think do i need to declare  the address of that variable?00:57
badduyes yes :)00:57
lardmanor look at this, which I think is up to date:
lardmanso no, you don't need to declare the address of the variable on the DSP side, that's handled for automatically (i.e. the DSP says where, then that is shared on the ARM)01:00
lardmanotoh, you can explicitly use a given address on the DSP side, for example if you had a FRAMEBUFFER memory section (which is special and has the framebuffer mapped to it automatically)01:00
derflardman: Anyway, it compiles now. Thanks for all your help.01:01
lardmanyou might then create a pointer, and set its address manually01:01
lardmanderf: np01:01
badduok, thats very nice. i haven't actually tested it with the actual program. i just  couldn't get the mmap test program to work before exmapping the memory01:01
lardmanderf: do you know how to install it?01:01
derfI've got your slides.01:01
lardmanderf: cool, let me know how you get on01:01
* lardman must finish writing up the slides01:01
lardmanbaddu: is that the one that comes with dsp gateway, or my one?01:02
baddulardman: dspgateways one, although i modified it to compile as a module01:03
lardmanbaddu: hmm, I'd skip that one and try mine01:03
lardmanor at least look at how the structure differs01:03
baddulardman: ok, i have that also, i had some problems loading all the programs to the dsp today (good old ABORTADR) and suddenly everything started to work again01:04
lardmanrun "dsp_dld -p" in a other term to see what's causing the ABORTADR; as often as not it's because the dSP is being awkward and after a reset it works01:05
badduok, thanks01:05
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lardmannight all01:56
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cyrus__anyone here install deblet? I installed it but once it completed it just appeared to repeat the installatoin. I rebooted and was not presented with any option to boot into deblet02:14
crashanddieStskeeps, FOOT02:14
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DeeleAnyone here?03:35
DeeleI have question regarding nokia 77003:37
DeeleIs there any possible way to make work any Java software on nokia 770 (OS2006)?03:38
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crashanddieDeele, no04:24
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dick-richardsonI moved /etc/ do i move it back?05:16
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dick-richardsonI moved /etc/ do i move it back?05:24
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dick-richardsonanyone on?05:28
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dick-richardsonmust be some good pr0n05:42
bef0rdwhat do you mean 'you moved' it?05:43
dick-richardsonI got it back...I ran 'sudo mv /etc/sudoers ./'05:44
dick-richardsonwhich makes it difficult to do anything as sudo05:44
dick-richardsonincluding moving it back :P05:44
bef0rd:P I just use rootsh05:44
dick-richardsonI would have installed it, but that requires sudo access05:46
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dick-richardsonanyone familiar w/this:
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EruditeHermitis it possible to play urls with mplayer on maemo?06:08
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EruditeHermitand is it possible to speed up video playback using any media player? I get jittery playback06:19
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zetheroo-ubuntuhow do you get GPS working on the N810?06:36
zetheroo-ubuntuis it built in?06:36
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: yesit should be06:39
zetheroo-ubuntuis there a program that I have to install to get it to work?06:40
EruditeHermitI don't know because I don't have one06:42
EruditeHermitbut agps06:42
EruditeHermitis something that helps with GPS06:42
EruditeHermitmaemo-mapper also uses it06:43
EruditeHermitmaemo mapper is a really good mapping program06:43
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: go to control panel06:45
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EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: and click on GPS Location item06:46
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: make sure your GPS is turned on06:46
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zetheroo-ubuntuits on06:49
zetheroo-ubuntufinding only 1 sat though06:49
zetheroo-ubuntuhow many do I need to get a map going?06:50
EruditeHermitI dunno06:50
EruditeHermitI read somewhere06:50
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: install agps06:50
moontigeri think its 706:51
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: that uses internet connection to make lock faster06:51
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: otherwise lock can take 10mins or more06:51
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zetheroo-ubuntubut what if there is no internet connection available?06:53
EruditeHermitit falls back to normal locking06:53
zetheroo-ubuntuso GPS is not all that steady06:54
EruditeHermitfrom what i have read06:54
EruditeHermitit is a complaint of many06:54
zetheroo-ubuntuwell I love the N81006:55
EruditeHermitit may be steady06:55
EruditeHermitjust takes a long time to lock satellites06:55
zetheroo-ubuntusuper quality and maemo is a great piece of software06:55
EruditeHermitit WAS good06:55
EruditeHermitneeds a good update now which it will get06:56
EruditeHermitwith a new device06:56
zetheroo-ubuntuwhy do I have so few apps available for install?06:56
EruditeHermityou need maemo extras repo06:57
zetheroo-ubuntuok it was there but disabled06:58
zetheroo-ubuntuis maemo-mapper the best map app?06:58
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: I like it the best06:59
zetheroo-ubuntudo I need any other packages other than maemo-mapper to get the full usage from it ?06:59
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: nope, you just need to select a map repository, like openstreetmap or yahoo, google, etc07:00
EruditeHermitand download the maps for the area you want07:00
zetheroo-ubuntuin the GPS setup what do I select for the internal GPS to work?07:01
zetheroo-ubuntuFile Path?07:01
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EruditeHermitI dunno07:01
EruditeHermitI don't have an n810 but try it07:01
EruditeHermitfrom the menu07:02
EruditeHermitselect the GPS item07:02
EruditeHermitand then select enable GPS07:02
EruditeHermitwhat does that do?07:02
zetheroo-ubuntuit says Searching for GPS receiver ... and then Error reading GPS data!07:02
zetheroo-ubuntuis that becasue I am not locked on07:03
EruditeHermitcould be07:03
EruditeHermitinstall agps07:03
EruditeHermitand see if that helps it lock on07:03
EruditeHermitGPS performance is not so good indoors07:03
EruditeHermitindoors you might have a network connection that helps it get a lock on07:04
zetheroo-ubuntuis it possible to get the pop-up keyboard on the screen with the N810?07:04
EruditeHermittap on a text input area07:04
EruditeHermitwith the stylus or a pen07:05
zetheroo-ubuntuI am07:05
zetheroo-ubuntunothing is happening07:05
EruditeHermitone sec07:05
EruditeHermitgo to control settings07:05
EruditeHermitsettings-->control panel07:05
EruditeHermittext input settings07:05
zetheroo-ubuntuenable it07:06
zetheroo-ubuntuagps is not in the repos07:06
bef0rdyou need to close the hardware keyboard or it wont appear07:06
zetheroo-ubuntudo I need to download it?07:06
EruditeHermitagps might be in maemo extras07:06
EruditeHermitmake sure you have enabled the maemo extras repository07:07
zetheroo-ubuntuits enabled07:07
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EruditeHermitI have: nokia catalg; nokia catlog 3rd party software; Nokia System sofware updates; maemo extras;07:10
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: agps-ui should be in the nokia catalogues07:12
EruditeHermittry reloading your lists07:12
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zetheroo-ubuntuwill try07:20
zetheroo-ubuntudo you have the N800 or N810?07:21
zetheroo-ubuntucause its not here07:21
EruditeHermitn800 here07:23
EruditeHermitGet:2 diablo/user agps-ui 0.10-1beta07:23
zetheroo-ubuntumaybe its been pulled from the repos07:23
EruditeHermitare you using diablo?07:24
EruditeHermitor chinook?07:24
zetheroo-ubuntuno idea what either of those are07:24
zetheroo-ubuntuwhats red pill mode by the way?07:24
EruditeHermitgo to control panel07:24
EruditeHermitclick about07:24
EruditeHermitwhat does it say the Version is?07:25
EruditeHermitthats why07:25
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: how much time are you willing to spend on your tablet?07:26
EruditeHermitsince you got your tablet, Nokia released sofware updates that require that you flash your tablet if you want to update it07:27
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zetheroo-ubuntuwell I did that before on the N800 ... so I don't mind doing it again with this one07:29
zetheroo-ubuntuif its not too difficult ...07:29
EruditeHermitits not too bad07:29
zetheroo-ubuntucan you help me?07:30
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: what OS is your laptop/desktop that you use?07:30
EruditeHermitI'll point you to simple instructions07:30
EruditeHermitah good, me too07:30
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EruditeHermitfollow instructions there07:32
EruditeHermitmake sure you backup all your files on the tablet07:32
EruditeHermiteverything will be wiped out07:33
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EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: let me know how it goes07:39
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zetheroo-ubuntuwhere is the flasher?07:52
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infobotwell, flashing is
bef0rd#  Download the flasher for your platform and tablet model from Nokia's Tablet Dev site07:57
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zetheroo-ubuntu ./flasher-3.0: command not found08:09
GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, you have to tell it where the flasher is.08:09
zetheroo-ubuntuI am in the folder where it is08:10
GeneralAntillestype ./flasher and press tab08:10
zetheroo-ubuntuI downloaded flasher-3.0 to my desktop08:11
zetheroo-ubuntunothing happens when I do that08:11
GeneralAntillesAStorm, Maemo Mapper is in Diablo Extras now.08:11
zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ sudo ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -R[sudo] password for zeth: sudo: ./flasher-3.0: command not found08:11
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bef0rdls flash*08:12
zetheroo-ubuntu :-S08:12
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zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ls flash*flasher-3.008:13
prakis busybox the archiver for maemo?08:14
zetheroo-ubuntuany ideas?08:15
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zetheroo-ubuntuGeneralAntilles : you still there?08:20
zetheroo-ubuntuI tried it without sudo and this is what I got08:21
zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -Rbash: ./flasher-3.0: Permission deniedzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$08:22
prakwhat is the most common application for opening tarball files in maemo?08:22
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GeneralAntillesprak, tar?08:22
GeneralAntillesxarchiver is around somewhere, too.08:22
zetheroo-ubuntuEruditeHermit  : you there?08:22
GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, sudo chmod 755 ./flasher-3.008:22
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zetheroo-ubuntunow it gives this08:23
zetheroo-ubuntuzeth@zeth-ubuntu:~/Desktop$ ./flasher-3.0 -F <RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin> -f -Rflasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006)-R: No such file or directory08:23
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: remove the < and >08:23
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EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: I hope you backed up your files btw08:24
zetheroo-ubuntuwhich is the swap button?08:24
zetheroo-ubuntuthere where no files...08:24
EruditeHermitthe one with the house08:24
zetheroo-ubuntuits just came brand new08:24
EruditeHermitlooks like a house08:25
zetheroo-ubuntuno house here...08:25
GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, the two overlapping rectangles.08:25
EruditeHermitits nearest the camera08:25
zetheroo-ubuntuSuitable USB device not found, waitingUSB device found found at bus 007, device address 003Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted08:25
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GeneralAntilleszetheroo-ubuntu, you have to rude flasher as root.08:26
EruditeHermitzetheroo-ubuntu: put sudo infront of that08:26
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: zetheroo-ubuntu, you have to run flasher as root.08:26
EruditeHermitsudo infront of the whole command08:26
zetheroo-ubuntuok.. its working08:26
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EruditeHermitGeneralAntilles: do you know any way to make video playback better?08:28
GeneralAntillesEruditeHermit, install mplayer?08:28
EruditeHermityeah, mplayer is slow08:28
EruditeHermitor my video is stuttering with it still08:28
GeneralAntillesWhat video?08:29
EruditeHermitmay or may not be slow in absolute terms08:29
EruditeHermitits a stream08:29
GeneralAntillesThere are hard limits on the data that can be transfered to the LCD controller08:29
GeneralAntillesand network activity decreases that even more as it adds CPU overhead.08:29
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't push more than 400x240 @ ~700-1100Kbps with MPEG4 over the network.08:29
EruditeHermitthat is the stream08:30
EruditeHermitdo you think its too much?08:30
* Proteous_ squints really hard at the url and realizes that it wont magicaly tell him the bandwidth and resolution of the stream08:31
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GeneralAntillesIs it WMV or somesuch?08:31
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EruditeHermitVIDEO:  [WVC1]  448x288  24bpp  1000.000 fps  470.0 kbps (57.4 kbyte/s)08:33
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Proteous_that's a lot of FPS08:34
Proteous_I don't think the refresh rate of the tablet is that high08:34
EruditeHermitthats what mplayer spat out08:34
EruditeHermitmay or may not be true08:34
Proteous_I'll give you 5000:1 odds08:35
Proteous_want to bet me a dollar?08:35
EruditeHermitonly if it is your dollar08:35
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EruditeHermitonly if they are your dollars*08:35
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EruditeHermitmplayer with omapfb is better08:39
EruditeHermitit drops a lot of frames08:40
EruditeHermitbut it doesn't stop the audio as much as osso player08:40
Proteous_I use tversity to on the fly encode my media for my n81008:42
Proteous_I've also used orb08:42
Proteous_(both windows programs although there are linux/mac alternatives)08:42
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moontigeris really so busy?09:20
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GeneralAntillesYes, it gets pounded a lot.09:23
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notcoolbuthothi, I'm having troubles getting to see in eclipse the documentation (method signature) for the gtk+ api, a full indexing seems to only make that possible for inner project files. Must I include something in the project paths area? I would also wish to get to view the gtk+ files in eclipse when I right-click->open_declaration on a gtk+ method. Can anyone help me?09:42
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moontigerGeneralAntilles, whats with the nokia chat thingy? is anyone using it? how does one sign up for an account?09:48
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EruditeHermitnotcoolbuthot: you should probably ask in another channel maybe?10:02
EruditeHermitnotcoolbuthot: is it eclipse for maemo?10:02
notcoolbuthoteclipse with ESbox10:02
EruditeHermitwell I don't know how to help you10:02
EruditeHermitbut maybe an eclipse channel could help you as well as others in here10:03
EruditeHermityou might want to ask in other places too10:03
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EruditeHermitseems like a very technical question10:03
EruditeHermitabout eclipse10:03
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AStormGeneralAntilles: thanks for info :)11:21
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ping11:25
GeneralAntillesJaffa, pong.11:25
JaffaGeneralAntilles: The redesign thread looks like it could do some chairing. Quim seems to be getting very frustrated and there's circular discussions about making things big11:26
GeneralAntillesCarman took an odd approach to implementing its statusbar applet.11:27
AStormtime to get my sbox up again11:28
AStormand build an OpenCV package11:28
AStormand python-opencv too11:28
* GeneralAntilles was dreading that.11:29
AStormbtw, I need a less broken xournal :)11:30
AStormeven the chinook one is rarely crashing11:30
AStormas a bonus, someone could implement "hand" panning tool11:31
AStormand/or widen the scrollbar11:31
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, problem is, I'm really totally disconnected from that discussion at this point.11:39
JaffaGeneralAntilles: hmm11:39
GeneralAntillesLooking at it it just feels like so much noise to me.11:40
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RST38hGAN, Jaffa: I am no longer participating. The stuff they discuss does not appear to have anything to do with what was planned.11:54
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* lcuk ponders the meaning of life12:30
lcuk(whilst waiting for tps reports to print)12:30
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dfaureI reformated the internal sd card (mmc2) to ext3 and cloned the system there, but now the map application says "no memory card found". any idea how I could use maps again?12:52
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johnxdfaure, mount something on /media/mmc2?12:56
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RST38hmoo, lcuk, johnx13:00
johnxm00f RST38h13:00
RST38hmoo, zap too13:00
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woglindehm has someone a idea how I can map/alias the standard locales which is utf of de_DE to de_DE.UTF-8 like on desktop?13:02
woglindehm or the other way round13:04
woglindei want to set it to de_DE.UTF-8 and it has to map to the standard de_DE on maemo13:04
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lardmanmorning all13:08
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woglindehi lardman13:09
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dfaurejohnx: thanks. I reformatted /dev/mtdblock4 as vfat and it works again. the error message was misleading, I thought it was looking for a memory card explicitely, instead it was just looking for a vfat partition anywhere :-)13:14
johnxuhm, you really shouldn't do that to mtdblock413:15
GAN800Your internal flash will fail very soon.13:15
johnxthat's a raw NAND device and it needs a wear leveling file system13:15
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johnxprobably won't fail *soon* but go and reformat it to jffs2 right now13:15
GAN800Never EVER format a raw mtd block as non-wear-leveling fs.13:15
johnxif you need to get stuff off of it remount it read-only first13:15
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dfaurethere's no mkfs.jffs2 ... how do I do that?13:16
johnxhang on a sec, I'll find you a copy of mkfs.jffs213:16
dfaurethese devices confuse me ;) if mtdblock4 is too small for installing real software, but can't hold maps either, it's pretty useless :/13:17
johnxhmm? real software = software that takes lots of space? :P13:17
dfaureyeah :-) like, say, kdepim :)13:18
GAN800Works for the vast majority of users.13:18
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GAN800jffs2 is compressed anyway13:18
dfaurewell it was full.13:18
johnxkdepim fits in 64MB on a zaurus...13:18
johnxremove the useless manuals and images and videos included in /home/user13:19
dfaureI installed kde4 kdelibs+kdepim (from Mek's package) and the jffs2 system was full13:19
dfaureMek told me to boot off the memory card, so now the whole system is cloned there...13:19
MangoFusionjust clone onto SD. that works for me ;)13:19
dfaureMangoFusion: and can you still use the maps?13:20
johnxdfaure, yeah, booting from sd card isn't a bad idea if you need it13:20
johnxjust make *two* partitions...13:20
MangoFusionis there a problem with the maps on SD? i haven't tried13:20
dfaureyeah I see that there's lots of empty space, two partitions is probably a good idea.13:20
johnxmake the first one vfat and it will auto-mount on /media/mmc2 still13:21
dfaureMangoFusion: well the problem is that if the SD is one big ext2 partition then the maps don't work13:21
dfaure(since they have to be on a vfat partition, for a reason that totally escapes me)13:21
GAN800'Map' doesn't work very well either way. ;)13:21
johnxactually, I can't find a mkfs.jffs2 for the tablet...13:22
dfaureGAN800: hey I'm trying to find some usefulness to this device, don't take one third of it away ;)13:23
Stskeepslook at fanoush's bootmenu13:23
GAN800Maemo Mapper13:23
MangoFusionjust need to make a fat partition before the cloned system partition i think?13:23
johnxStskeeps, ah, good idea13:23
GAN800dfaure, if it's not useful, why buy it?13:23
dfaureGAN800: heh ;) it was a gift from nokia13:23
johnxdfaure, did you install bootmenu to dual boot? if so, look under /usr/libexec/bootmenu/mkfs.jffs213:24
GAN800or just flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO> --flash-only=rootfs13:24
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dfaureI have some sort of boot menu indeed, but no /usr/libexec/bootmenu/13:24
dfaureah thanks found it13:24
dfaureinside the initfs_flasher dir13:24
dfaurehehe that's for making a jffs2 image from a directory tree. why is it named mkfs.jffs2 then :-)13:25
* MangoFusion loves when the modest browser decides to choke on JS-heavy sites13:26
dfaureMangoFusion: that's exactly why you want konqueror on the device :-)13:26
MangoFusionthat would be 10 times worse ;)13:27
johnxnah, webkit has a better js engine for now I think13:27
MangoFusionkonqueror pulls from webkit now?13:27
MangoFusioni thought they were still seperate13:27
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dfaureyes they are separate13:27
dfaurealthough we merge fixes from webkit now and then13:27
GAN800'modest browser'?13:28
johnxGAN800, JS heavy email? :)13:28
GAN800MicroB's getting updates all the time.13:29
MangoFusionsorry microb13:29
GAN800We'll be there soon enough.13:29
MangoFusiontoo many m's13:29
GAN800Maemo, Modest, MicroB13:29
johnxall progress is good progress. It's nice to see cross-polination of ideas and especially nice to see open source browsers overshadowing closed source ones13:29
MangoFusiondoes anyone know if there is a JavaScript console available for microb?13:29
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MangoFusioni seem to be getting an error in my code13:30
MangoFusionwhich i cannot reproduce anywhere else13:30
MangoFusionnot even firebug lite seems to help13:30
GAN800I wonder how Carman does alternate map repos.13:31
RST38hHas Carman been released?13:31
GAN800Sorta of13:31
GAN800metapackage doesn't seem to be in place13:31
RST38hextras-devel for now?13:31
GAN800But installing most of the stuff apt-cache search carman* shows will do yah13:32
RST38hwill be waiting then13:32
GAN800It's very pretty13:32
RST38hbtw, there is a nice network scanner app released but it has got real problems integrating into hildon ui13:32
RST38hand it's not in the repo, unfortunately13:33
GAN800I need to figure out which Bluetooth serial adaptor I want.13:33
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RST38hMeanwhile: "Armed police officers yesterday shot dead a devil dog which attacked four people during a uncontrolled rampage in Mitcham, South London."13:34
RST38hGAN: There is exactly 1 (one) BT ODB dongle on the market13:34
RST38hSo, it is not necessary figuring out13:34
GAN800Serial adaptor for the OBDII scanner I already have.13:34
johnxyou kids with your digital ECUs *shakes his head*13:34
* GAN800 throws a carb at johnx.13:35
johnxheh...not talking carbs either. I'm thinking about early analog ECUs :)13:36
GAN800I'm really baffled by the Max Payne trailer13:36
RST38hjohnx, lemme guess, a bicycle? =)13:36
johnxRST38h, lots of early 80's Japanese cars13:36
GAN800I've played the game at least 20 times and it doesn't look a thing like it.13:36
* RST38h had an '84 Camry but it already came with a digital ecu, afaik13:37
johnxyeah, it was just a couple really awkward years in the late 70s/early 80s13:37
RST38hThe only movie based on a game that I liked was the Mario Brothers but only because the whole production team seemed to be on toadstools13:38
RST38hNo, really, how else would you produce shit like that?13:39
GAN800What good video game-based games have there been?13:39
lcukstreet fighter13:40
lcuk(only cos kylie was in it)13:40
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GAN800it's sad because there's a lot of good material to work from13:41
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lardmanDoom? ;)13:43
lcuknot really, what would be best is to find a story which can sit on multiple platforms  andhas enough backstory to make both the game and  the movie entertaining and thrilling13:43
* lcuk wants to see half life universe explored in movie13:43
RST38hgames normally have skin-deep back stories, what would you work from?13:43
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GeneralAntillesNormally, but that's not true of all games.13:44
lcukRST38h, thats the thing, the backstory commonly comes from what the engine is capable of13:44
* lardman wants to see the Force Unleashed as it's console only; then again there is already a book of the story of the game, hmm13:44
dfaureshould I flash_eraseall /dev/mtd4 or is this yet another bad idea?13:44
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RST38hlcuk: Not really: books "engine" isn't capable of anything but god do they have rich back stories!13:44
GeneralAntillesHehe, I want to to Shadows of the Empire made into a movie.13:44
lardmanGeneralAntilles: there must be books of that already?13:44
johnxcan I has my snow crash movie?13:45
RST38hok, just give me a Dungeonkeeper The Movie...13:45
GeneralAntilleslardman, yes, there's a book.13:45
GeneralAntillesLucas can't have anything to do with it, though.13:45
lardmanbooks are better than movies.13:45
GeneralAntillesHe's clearly lost his mind.13:45
GeneralAntillesBooks are _different_ than movies.13:45
lcukRST38h, books are entirely artistic and mind candy,  if theres enough meat inside a good literary universe you can expand to movies/games13:45
lcuklike star wars as mentioned13:45
lardmanwell written book is better than a movie, unless the movie is going to be 10hrs long of course ;)13:45
GeneralAntillesFew people really push the medium to its limits, though.13:45
lcukbut more often than not the backstory to a game is like the plot to a porn movie13:46
RST38hlcuk: Exactly. But games are entirely eye candy and masturbation tools13:46
RST38hlcuk: No place for backstories there13:46
GeneralAntilles2001 is an example of a movie that really excels at pushing the visual medium.13:46
lcuk*see previous comment13:46
lardmanLeisure suite Larry?13:46
lcukjet set willy :D13:46
lcukin 3d13:46
RST38heven stuff like WoW is basically a masturbation tool13:46
lcukwow is visual IRC13:47
lardmandepends what you're in to :)13:47
* johnx vows never to play WoW against RST38h 13:47
RST38hQueer pleasure through repetitive performance of senseless actions13:47
lardmanjohnx: lol. might be an advantage for you though, not got his mind on the job13:47
* RST38h has never played WoW but has just met a WoW addict13:47
lcuki like playing the maemo game :)13:47
lardmanGAN800: SW games have gone downhill since Dark Forces and the first of the Jedi Knights imo13:48
lcuki hear its starting to be ported to other gaming systems at the moment though ;)13:48
RST38hThis stuff *isn't* healthy13:48
GeneralAntilles"<lcuk> RST38h, books are entirely artistic and mind candy"13:48
GeneralAntillesThat makes no sense, lcuk. :P13:48
RST38hdepends on how you define artistic13:48
johnxWoW addicts are just drug addicts who don't know a dealer...13:48
lardmanGeneralAntilles: probably means you have to use your imagination13:48
lcukGeneralAntilles, theres more to read than the back of a cereal packet13:48
GeneralAntilleslardman, for a Calculus textbook, too? :P13:48
RST38hHe obviously did not mean your calculus textbook =)13:49
GeneralAntillesBooks are nothing more than bound pages of paper with words printed on them.13:49
lardmanyeah, imagine how you're going to take over the world using your new skills, motivational ;)13:49
GeneralAntillesRST38h, *shrugs* it _is_ a book.13:49
* RST38h is trying to figure out how to get access to a machine in the US13:50
* lcuk changes stance: fiction books were intent of my comment13:50
RST38hFrom a "controlled country", too...13:50
RST38hObfuscated to no end...13:50
GeneralAntilleslcuk, a lot of fiction books fail the "artistry and mind candy" test, too. ;)13:50
dfaurefunny, mount -t jffs2 was enough to get a jffs2 system back. no mkfs needed.13:50
RST38hGAN: Calculus certainly satisfies the mind candy part13:51
johnxdfaure, run mount and make sure13:51
RST38hGAN: And the artistry depends on the author13:51
lcukGeneralAntilles, just like many games fail the entertaining and fun tests13:51
GeneralAntillesRST38h, now _that's_ a highly subjective statement.13:51
dfaureyep, mount says jffs2.13:51
* lcuk stops this convo anyway, we are gettin in the way of a serious problem13:51
lardmanI'd work through this: Actually the only aspect I get hung up on (and with the comic as well) has to do with fuel for the jet boots. But again, I just suspend disbelief and enjoy the fictional ride...13:52
dfaureand I can chown a file, so this is definitely not FAT :)13:52
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Stskeepsso you mkfs'ed mtdblock4 with vfat, and then you're able to remount it vfat?13:52
lardmanbloody cut and paste13:52
* RST38h had more Calculus than General can ever imagine13:52
lardmanthis even:
Stskeepsmount it jffs2, that is13:52
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes, I'm sure, but not everybody find math enjoyable.13:52
dfaureStskeeps: Yep. I mkfs'ed mtdblock4 with vfat, mouted it, umounted it, then mounted it with -t jffs2, and that seems to have reformatted it13:52
dfaureit matches what I saw while googling, too; people would erase the mtd device and then just mount it...13:53
RST38h300+ hours total just in the first 4 semesters13:53
Stskeepsdfaure: god bless unexpected sideeffects..13:53
dfaureyeah what if someone has important data in a vfat partition and just mounts it wrongly....13:53
Stskeepsi swear, at some point i'm going to discover something that'll make me loose all faith in technology, and i'd move into a monastary13:53
crashanddiethank god for that13:54
crashanddieor s/me loose all faith/my faith all loose/13:55
Stskeepsgrammar nazi.13:59
* RST38h gives up on trying to get access =(13:59
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GeneralAntilleslardman, related: what killed Iron Man for me was the scientist idiotically waving a rifle running after those two terrorists who were themselves running away like a couple of schoolgirls.14:01
lardmanwell he was probably pretty smelly after living in a cave for a year...14:03
GeneralAntillesAll that stupid campy shit that you'd never see in Batman.14:03
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lardmanhmm, I'm not too fond of Batman, film started well, finished poorly14:03
lardmanfirst of the new ones that is, I've not seen the latest one14:04
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* Stskeeps fell asleep during the dark knight.. but then again, that was after several beers 14:04
GeneralAntillesI was going to have to kill you for not liking The Dark Knight14:04
Stskeepsshould rewatch it some other point14:04
GeneralAntillesDark Knight is probably the greatest superhero movie ever made.14:04
lardmanWhen's it out on video?14:04
lardmans/video/DVD (of course)14:04
GeneralAntillesI saw it 4 times in IMAX14:05
lardmanmust be cheaper to go to the cinema over there then! ;)14:05
lardmanhmm, yes that's quite cheap :)14:05
GeneralAntillesI know a few people who work in that theater.14:05
towoFinally got my N810 back from the Big N...14:06
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lcuktowo, how did you get it back from Nigel, he threatened to beat me up when i asked for mine back14:07
towoBigger guns.14:08
lcukwas it bein repaired? how long did it take?14:08
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RST38hGentlemen, do you all understand that you are discussing stupid story-less movies shot in Hollywood based on some goddamn comic books?14:09
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RST38hAnd you expect these movies to be realitic! =)14:10
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, did you see the new Batman's?14:10
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: RST38h, did you see the new Batmans?14:11
RST38hNo and not going to14:11
GeneralAntillesThen stuff it.14:11
RST38hIt is quite sufficient that I have seen Iron Man, while on a plane14:11
johnxnow, now children. quit bickering14:11
* Stskeeps had a flashback of comic book guy for a second there14:12
RST38hThe old Batman at least had the atmosphere. I do not exepct anything but blue-screened visual effects from the new one14:12
lcukStskeeps, only for a second?14:12
GeneralAntillesRST38h, actually, there's not a lot of CGI in the new ones.14:12
Stskeepslcuk: okay, more :P14:12
johnxGeneralAntilles, uhm, WTH?14:12
GeneralAntillesjohnx, true!14:12
RST38hGeneral: Really? Why?14:12
RST38hRan out of money?14:13
GeneralAntillesWell, more than the latest drama.14:13
GeneralAntillesBut Nolan isn't a fan of over-the-top effects.14:13
johnxGeneralAntilles, do you think that the batmobile and that ridiculous bat-cycle-thing exist and were driven around a real city?14:13
GeneralAntillesjohnx, the batcycle was CGI14:13
GeneralAntillesThe batmobile is real.14:13
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GeneralAntilles"I think there's a vague sense out there that movies are becoming more and more unreal, I know I've felt it. The demand we put on ourselves was to be as spectacular as possible, but not depend on computer graphics to do it."14:13
johnxGeneralAntilles, and it really crushes cars?14:13
RST38hMars Attacks was probably the last good SF movie to come from Hollywood14:14
RST38hGiven that Wag The Dog is now a documentary.14:14
Stskeepslatest decent sci fi i've seen was the man from earth, and code 46.. well, and v for vendetta14:16
GeneralAntillesMan from Earth was excellent14:16
GeneralAntillesClassic science fiction14:16
Stskeepsi went to donate cos i couldn't buy it in my region just yet14:16
* RST38h checks imdb14:16
thuxi need to keep two keyboards on nit-env-gnome-basic that how could write one or an another14:17
Stskeepsthux: huh?14:17
GeneralAntillesRST38h, you didn't like the Matrix?14:17
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* Stskeeps was okay with first matrix, animatrix, but two last ones sucked14:17
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, duh. ;)14:17
RST38hGeneral: No. Should I?14:18
lardmanV for Vendetta! I couldn't bring myself to watch that14:18
GeneralAntillesDonnie Dark is another good one post Mars Attacks14:18
Stskeepsyeah, donnie darko obviously14:18
GeneralAntillesChildren of Men14:18
Stskeepslardman: it's a -very- good movie14:18
Stskeepsespecially when you live in UK you can probably draw some parrallels :P14:18
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'm baffled as to why one wouldn't like the Matrix.14:18
GeneralAntillesRST38h, how about Serenity?14:19
Stskeeps(why is it always UK that gets the movies about police states, deadly infections, etc?)14:19
thuxmostly upper one but it opens first lower one and have to close killing pid14:19
johnxGeneralAntilles, to be different.14:19
RST38hGeneral: Mindless special effects, shallow and unoriginal back story, naive ideas of what networks and hacking are14:19
RST38hGeneral: I absolutely liked Serenity the series and somewhat liked the move14:19
RST38hGeneral: For the sole reason that it is very low key and not about SF at all14:20
lardmanSerenity movie was rubbish imho, not seen the series14:20
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Stskeepsthux: not sure what you're trying to explain14:20
RST38hlardman: You should see series first, the movie is kinda useless to watch otherwise14:20
johnxlardman, it doesn't work too well to see the movie first I think14:20
lardmanyeah, not much backstory, or indeed story at all afaict14:20
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johnxlardman, it doesn't give enough character intro in the movie. you need to start watching it with the characters already in your mind14:21
GeneralAntillesEh, I saw the movie first and enjoyed the hell out of it.14:21
RST38hMovie isn't bad but kinda incomplete14:21
GeneralAntillesjohnx, you read the wiki page? :)14:23
johnxGeneralAntilles, what wiki page?14:23
johnxah, that. yeah...I believe you now. I still think a lot of that scene was done with cgi, but I'll grant not all of it14:24
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* Stskeeps ponders idly14:30
Stskeepsfound a comment somewhere: Boot loader is "NoLo". It supports booting off from SD cards as well.14:30
Stskeepsi wonder14:30
lcukgo go stskeeps14:31
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Stskeepsnot that it matters that much when we can add new kernel and such and flash it..14:32
Stskeepsstill, .. FreeBSD? ;>14:33
johnxwith ... no drivers? :P14:33
X-FadeSweet, the Collabora stuff is coming to Extras ;)14:34
Stskeepsdidn't say it should be useful14:34
Stskeepsjohnx: in any case it would probably be possible to replace NOLO with u-boot14:34
Stskeepsi'm not going to touch that, but it's probably possible14:34
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johnxor just kexec if needed14:34
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bongohi. i want to get a passwordless root login to diablo. where should i place my pub key? i can add the key to ~/.ssh/authorized_keys to login as user, but i need to do this for root14:38
dfaurebongo: then /root/.ssh/authorized_keys ;)14:38
bongook, just create the .ssh folder if it is not there?14:39
bongoworks, thx14:40
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RST38hX-Fade: Just make sure they and Nix merge their Pidgin installations14:46
RST38hX-Fade: Also, after talking with Collabora guys, it looks like their Pidgin/libpurple packages are kind of bogus: they are not supposed to be used separately, only as support for their own stuff14:47
X-FadeRST38h: That is their idea actually ;)14:47
RST38hX-Fade: I talked to them about it yesterday ;)14:47
X-FadeRST38h: Ah good ;)14:48
RST38hTheir stuff includes 18MB extra data (which is really optional and this is how Nix' Pidgin treats it)14:48
hrwbongo: next time use ssh-copy-id14:50
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hrw'ssh-copy-id root@nokia.lan'14:50
X-FadeRST38h: Well anyway, it is easier to deal with it when it is all in the same repo.14:50
RST38hX-Fade: hopefully =)14:50
X-FadeRST38h: Or it might explode earlier ;)14:50
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bongohrw: nice hint ;)14:51
RST38hit will most likely explode due to version conflict but I hope Collabora and Nix resolve it14:51
X-FadeRST38h: Well you can't upload conflicts as those won't build on the builder. So perhaps..14:52
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thopiekarcould you please check out this thread on iTT:15:01
thopiekari've got some problems setting up an rfcomm connection..15:01
thopiekarthanks and cu l8er15:01
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thuxStskeeps: gnome-terminal didnt open browser?15:04
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Stskeepsthux: i'm sorry, i don't get you? maybe there's no browser installed :P15:12
thuxicexeasel is15:13
Stskeepsthen write iceweasel in terminal?15:14
Stskeepsit might take a while to startup :P15:14
thuxusually gnome-terminal opens link from irc15:14
thuxbut deblet doesnt15:15
thuxwhen you do irc with terminal and somebody insert http link15:16
thuxklik link browser opens15:17
johnxdo you have the correct browser selected in the preferences?15:18
thuxi check15:19
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thuxjohnx: that helped thanx15:23
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AStormkudos to Canola team for finally adding back Ogg support in 10-beta2 :)16:11
GeneralAntillesAStorm, Diablo not lookin' so bad anymore? ;)16:12
GeneralAntillesdneary, ping.16:13
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AStormGeneralAntilles: yeah, almost looking good16:15
AStormnow, we need maemopad++ and non-broken xournal16:15
GeneralAntilleslardman|lunch, ping.16:16
AStormI'd actually rather extend xournal with basic tree note manager :)16:16
AStormand a few other minor features16:16
X-FadeAStorm: Maemopad+ is in Extras now.16:16
AStormgood :)16:17
AStormstill, broken xournal is in extras-deve16:17
AStormcrashy to hell16:17
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Here16:17
dnearyBut have to go see the accountant in about 15 minutes16:18
GeneralAntillesdneary, whenever you get time, can you look over my lists for killing the old wiki?16:18
GeneralAntillesI reviewed the pages, and put together a list of redirects and a list of salvageable stuff.16:18
GeneralAntillesI need some more people to eyeball it, though.16:18
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AStormxournal has much more mature editing tools, while maemopad+ has the nice tree note manager and text notes16:20
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Pointer?16:20
AStormalso, xournal has pdf support16:20
dnearyIs this wikireorg in the old wiki, or a page in the new wiki that I haven't been watching?16:20
AStormso... :)16:21
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GeneralAntillesI wasn't as methodical as I should have been putting together the redirect list, so I may have missed some.16:22
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AStormI'm getting "Unable to read socket" in pidgin16:26
AStormwith GaduGadu transport16:26
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AStormwhile my pidgin on laptop works all right16:26
AStormsame 2.5.1 version16:27
AStormmaybe the difference is that mine uses gnutls16:27
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: OK - looks like a good start!16:31
GeneralAntillesdneary, after the list is made, we just need to kill it and put the redirects in.16:31
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dnearyThere should definitely be a pointer to wikireorg, since that has a list of the pages we moved before.16:31
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dnearyOh! There it is, righht at the top16:32
dnearyI didn't think "old wiki" would link to that page16:32
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GeneralAntillesIt could probably be more prominent, but I was being lazy. ;)16:33
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RST38hWeird: apparently cellphones are still stolen and resold around here16:59
RST38hOne would think that IMEIs make this kind of crime a complete deadend17:00
johnxRST38h, did you see the awesome iphone scam?17:00
RST38hoh yes17:00
johnxthat's full of win17:00
RST38hand I actually suspect that it is a chinese-made toy they are using17:00
johnxheh...but in China they make *real* iphones :P17:01
RST38hthey will make it as real as you are ready to pay =)17:01
RST38hbut iphones are actually going out of fashion: the public eagerly awaits 5800 and HTC Touch HD =)17:02
johnxgoing out of fashion among geeks maybe17:02
johnxI mean the razr v3 is still the most sold phone in the US...17:02
RST38hjohnx: it is a bit different here. more like Japan than like USA17:03
* Stskeeps is seeing more and more ipod touch'es though17:03
johnxheh...iphone isn't going out of style here either, among normal people. try again17:03
RST38hjohnx: dumb-like-a-stump blondes with ultra expensive smartphones like N95 etc17:03
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Stskeepspeople are really upset about iphone + teleproviders here, .. the 3g net is simply not up to par17:03
RST38hjohnx: apparently, people who have enough money to eat but not enough money to buy cars consider cell phones the next available expression of social status17:04
Stskeepsi would actually prefer a n810w here, the range is quite good in this area :P17:04
RST38hjohnx: But this also means they have to change cell phones often :)17:05
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johnxRST38h, two factors here: everyone is in love with the ipod (enthralled is more accurate) and everyone plays cell phone games or surfs the inet on their phone, hence the iphone is going like mad17:06
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RST38hjohnx: yea, those two would make it a killer gadget17:06
RST38halthough gaming is somewhat limited on iphone17:07
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johnxRST38h, not serious gaming, just things to pass the time on a 1 hour commute on a crowded train17:07
RST38hjohnx: I always said that $20/gallon gas will make smartphones mighty popular in US ;)17:08
johnxno public transportation infrastructure to speak of though17:08
thuxis iphone 3d hardware accelerated?17:08
RST38hotherwise, poor americans just don't have time to play with their phones17:08
RST38hjohnx: Well, bus network is really easy to roll out17:08
RST38hjohnx: And I am pretty sure that under the right management Amtrak will cost like a bus, not like an airplane17:09
johnxRST38h, we'll see I guess. it was shrinking over the last few years though in the seattle area17:09
RST38hjohnx: same everywhere17:09
johnxRST38h, amtrak doesn't *go anywhere* that people need day-to-day17:09
RST38halthough at the east coast, chinese have built several bus lines of their own17:09
RST38hjohnx: but it does - it connects dc, baltimore, nyc, and boston17:10
GeneralAntillesI'd love to take a train back home.17:10
RST38hjohnx: that covers a lot of places where people go to work17:10
Stskeeps <- i kinda want one17:10
johnxRST38h, can you actually use it to commute though?17:10
GeneralAntillesThere's apparently a track and stations, I can't figure out if it's possible to actually ride it, though.17:10
RST38hjohnx: my dad does17:11
johnxRST38h, terrifying! I never knew... O_o17:11
RST38hjohnx: it is either amrtak or driving and parking in DC17:11
johnxI heard they want to up the security to airport levels though...17:11
RST38hjohnx: and believe me, driving and parking in DC during the rush hour is way more terrifying and more expensive too17:11
RST38hif they do, they will lose lots of business travelers17:12
johnxRST38h, yeah, I know. been there, done that17:12
johnxI wonder if amtrak actually does "commuter" service in seattle->everett17:12
thuxi would like to have nvidia gpu and ppc phone with linux17:14
RST38hjohnx: it may but may cost like an airplane ticket too17:14
johnxtalk to nvidia, they're not offering linux support for their embedded GPUs it appears17:14
johnxalso, why  PPC instead of ARM?17:15
RST38hthux: would you like a cooling system with that?17:15
glass_g5 hotpocket17:15
thuxi got ppc ipaq was much better than omap ipaq17:15
RST38hyou do not understand what you are talking about17:16
johnxthux, link to the ppc ipaq, please? I'm interested :)17:16
RST38h"ppc ipaq" = iPaq running PocketPC (WinCE for PDAs)17:16
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glass_ppc in this case = pocketpc? and not the cpu arch....17:17
RST38hthe chip inside ipaq is an Intel XScale ARM chip17:17
thuxno powerpc17:17
glass_thux: link17:17
glass_some url to it17:17
RST38hNow, "ppc phone with linux" is an oxymoron, as you probably understand now17:17
thuxi don't have link17:17
RST38hIt is either PocketPC or Linux, choose one17:17
thuxppc cpu familiat linux17:18
glass_thux: i'm failing to google powerpc ipaq. so. link or it's bullshit17:18
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johnxthux, I've been following the ipaq line for about 10 years, and they've always based them on ARM processors. I'm not sure if they ever used an OMAP, but I'm pretty sure it was mostly strongARM, then xscale17:19
RST38hthux: there were no ppc cpus in ipaqs17:19
RST38hthux: if you think there were, provide us with a url17:19
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glass_does wince even run on powerpc?17:20
GeneralAntillesSomehow I doubt it.17:20
johnxI *think* it does17:20
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GeneralAntillesMaybe we could run some 360 games on it, though. ;)17:21
RST38hLast time I checked, WinCE supported MIPS and ARM17:21
RST38hWinNT ran on PowerPC and Alha before, but Microsoft killed both ports long time ago17:22
infobotRST38h meant: WinNT ran on PowerPC and Alpha before, but Microsoft killed both ports long time ago17:22
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Stskeepsjohnx: what's your view regarding what things need polishing in deblet currently?17:22
Stskeepssystem level wise17:22
johnxStskeeps, real system level? or user facing control of system level stuff?17:22
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Stskeepswell things that may not work so well, - beneath the user interface i guess17:23
Stskeepswe should look into wifipowersave setting when not connected17:24
johnxyes, and more power saving stuff. figure out what's taking CPU cycles while idle17:24
johnxBTW, xscreensaver runs while the screen is blank :)17:24
johnxby default17:24
Stskeepsyeah, i found out by accident17:25
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Stskeepsi had some s2ram and it returned and had a weirdass display on17:25
Stskeepsand wondered.. and realized it was a screensaver17:25
johnxheh...I just plugged it into power once and saw it17:25
johnxit was really pretty on such a high res screen :)17:25
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johnxbut also really warm17:25
Stskeepsyeah, nit-env-lxde needs a loving hand17:26
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Stskeepsjohnx: new n-m will have ppp support btw17:30
Stskeepscompiled some packages17:31
Stskeepsjohnx: also i was pondering if we should make cron use retu wakeup or the likes maybe17:32
johnxso we can use s2ram?17:32
Stskeepswell also saving power17:32
Stskeepsand maybe s2ram too i guess17:32
Stskeepsi used s2ram in ireland, worked decently but had some deadly encounters with a non-PSM wifi that killed my power17:33
Stskeepsbut then again i didn't play any sounds (dsp should have problems)17:33
Stskeepsshould we maybe consider removing cron package since we don't really need it for now, i dunno :P17:34
johnxhmm, does it really kill the battery?17:34
johnxit should only wake up once a minute17:34
johnxor is it constantly running a timer?17:35
Stskeepsgood question17:35
Stskeepslemme see code17:35
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johnxI ran it on os2007 without ill effects I believe17:36
johnxit certainly didn't have a huge impact17:36
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Stskeepswell i had problem mine went to sleep so it missed the cron wakeups17:37
Stskeepsso it didn't do its job17:37
Stskeeps.. could always port maemo's alarmd17:38
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Stskeepsjohnx: wakes up every minute, reads its databases..17:40
johnxthat shouldn't be bad I think17:40
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Stskeepsi wish we had some way of determing what swallows power17:41
johnxpowertop :)17:41
johnxneed an oprofile kernel and some other debug thing as well17:41
qwerty12CONFIG_TIMER_STATS (I think), doesn't like the wifi last time I tried17:41
johnxqwerty12, did you recompile the wifi driver?17:42
qwerty12johnx: Hmm, good point, I didn't. umac or cx3110x?17:42
qwerty12out of question :)17:42
johnxcx3110x I mean17:42
Stskeepsthen again if we mess up the wifi we can still analyze on the system itself17:43
johnxqwerty12, was it just CONFIG_TIMER_STATS or was there something else?17:43
* johnx might have made up the oprofile bit...17:44
Stskeepsjohnx: nokia provides oprofile kernels17:44
qwerty12johnx: just that for powertop. The other options were not present or already activated17:44
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Stskeepsjohnx: also i'm not sure if it's a problem we use a system compiled not optimally for our processor17:46
Stskeeps(jesus, my language is bad today.17:46
GeneralAntillesProbably doesn't help.17:47
johnxit is a problem I think *sighs*17:47
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GeneralAntillesYou could always recompile for armv6 and see. *g*17:47
johnxbut I'm not sure what to do about it, short of putting effort into angstrom or mamona instead17:47
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that's true, but it actually misses some things that are kinda basic for a sane system :P17:48
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well bits and pieces around, atleast in the newest versions, that aren't complete, so many of the basic metapackages aren't installable17:49
* GeneralAntilles doesn't really know anything about Ubuntu from Mojo other than that it's available for armv617:49
johnxmost of it is available17:49
johnxlots of compiling...lots of *native* compiling17:50
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Stskeepsi guess we can find packages that are intensive and compile some of them for arm and prioritize them or something17:51
johnxyou have a beagleboard coming, right?17:52
Stskeepsgot one but have serial issues atm17:52
johnxwell, once it's up can find a good use for its spare cycles...17:53
johnxhey, I'll pitch in with my pandora when it comes17:53
GeneralAntillesI think we should convince tekojo to get a cluster for ;)17:54
qwerty12But I've grown fond of the 770's that host maemo.org17:55
GeneralAntillesFor the autobuilder17:56
RST38h has finally got attention17:56
qwerty12My bad :). That would be a nice idea actually :)17:56
GeneralAntillesI really wish they had a price on the overo.17:56
GeneralAntillesRST38h, can you attach the relevant patches?17:57
qwerty12 & to save time17:57
RST38hThey are already attached there so no need to do it again17:58
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GeneralAntillesLinking from a comment is not an attachment. ;)17:59
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RST38hoh ok18:00
Stskeepswhat arm version was 770?18:00
qwerty12v5 iirc18:00
GeneralAntillesIt was an ARM918:00
juergbiJaffa: i'd like to update the vala and libgee packages, get them into extras, and keep them maintained. do you think it makes more sense to do this via mud or shall i just create a garage project?18:04
RST38hThe About box in the latest Gnumeric is hilarious18:05
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: You knew about that, right? :)18:10
GeneralAntillesWhen did they open it?18:11
GeneralAntillesOr was I just misremembering? :\18:11
X-FadeRegistered: 2007-10-10 13:3418:11
GeneralAntillesI wonder what I was thinking of.18:11
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X-FadeIt used to be closed. But 11 months ago was the first upload of code.18:12
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to teach tim how to quote.18:13
X-FadeOh, that reminds me. I need to ask Hendrik to upload to Extras ;)18:13
Stskeepswhat's -vfp for generally?18:17
Stskeepsor is that a bad thing on tablets?18:17
johnxgood on an n8x0, not present on a 77018:17
X-FadeStskeeps: Floating point. N8x0 like that.18:17
X-FadeBut it kills performance on 770.18:18
qwerty12Stskeeps: How are you going to optimise it both for 770 and N800 at the same time?18:18
qwerty12Sure, 770 opts should work on N800 but you won't get the best performance18:19
GeneralAntillesYou aren't18:19
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johnxthe debian armel builds are probably close to optimal for the 77018:20
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Stskeepsokay, what's the use of building thousands and thousands of packages, when you can't even do a good debootstrap package..18:32
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Stskeeps <- that really explains some awkward problems i've been having18:39
qwerty12That's a pretty shitty thing to set as default im18:40
qwerty12recommended to me means you should but you don't strictly have to18:40
Stskeeps yes18:41
* Stskeeps passes on the crackpipe he just got passed from the apt developers18:41
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johnxI'm mixed on the recommends thing18:43
johnxit usually means this package will start but not really work unless you do this18:43
johnxor it *should* with suggests being "you might also want this"18:44
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* Stskeeps tries a nit-env-lxde without recommends18:45
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darxhi, how can i use n800 as a graphics tablet for a desktop computer?18:46
darxis there a way to forward mouse events from x?18:46
darxor something like that?18:46
darxthe mouse actions should be precise.18:47
darxmy main motive to be able to draw diagrams and stuff18:47
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Stskeepsconsidered using xournal for sketching instead? i guess you can make a program that translates pressure, x, and y in some way18:48
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darxStskeeps: yes.. i do have xournal.18:49
darxhow may i get started suppose i'm willing to write an app?18:49
Stskeepspython's a good start18:49
darxi've some basic programming skills.18:50
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darxi mean the documentation and stuff18:50
darxis n800 diablo or chinook?18:52
johnxthose are just different software versions18:53
johnxit depends on which one you installed18:53
johnxthey are two versions of os200818:54
johnxjust look in the about box in control panel18:55
johnxthey *both* use the same kernel18:55
johnxand really, you should try vnc before deciding it's not precise enough18:55
hrwsame kernel realse but different revisions18:55
hrw2.6.21-omap1 from chinook != 2.6.21-omap1 from latest diablo18:55
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johnxsorry for oversimplifying, it won't happen again18:56
darx4.2008.36-5 :-D18:56
johnxdiablo :)18:56
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lcukstskeeps, using python for a graphical app is just painful19:16
lcukthat should get you publically flogged for even suggesting it ;)19:16
Stskeepssorry :P19:17
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lcukhaving said that, i did v0.00000000000000000000001 of liqbase sketching in python, and when i swirled my mouse around got a really cool diamond spirograph effect19:17
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GeneralAntillesHrm, rotation for Fremantle.19:19
lcukGeneralAntilles, shouldnt that be a core baseline  feature anyway, and even if not can be done by any client app on the fly with a texture and a couple of triangles19:20
johnxI don't think everything will be rendering to clutter...19:21
crashanddieif the real processing is done with optimised code, say C or even assembly, wouldn't python be forgiveable?19:21
lcukwell if you are rendering a 3d surface does it care whether up is up or not19:21
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johnxlcuk, that assumes that everything will be rendered in GL, right?19:22
lcukjohnx, it might not all come from clutter, but wont it be a composited desktop env - basically everything should come through 3d?19:22
johnxlcuk, I don't think that's decided yet19:22
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johnxthough doing it with compositing at the wm level would be more flexible than at the widget level in terms of including older tablets...19:23
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lcukjohnx, if we are stepping between 2d and 3d wont we have a visual stutter as screenmode changes and some apps needing 3d windows will have problems etc19:23
derfcrashanddie: On an embedded device the real problem is the 10 MB of libraries and interpreter you need to load to execute your 100 line progam.19:24
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johnxlcuk, uhm, no?19:24
crashanddiederf, I never really python, I maybe typed 10 lines in in my whole life19:24
derf"Your" is of course figurative.19:24
SavagoGood morning. Anyone known if qt4 for maemo has an IRC channel?19:24
crashanddiederf, of course, I just wanted to point I have no idea about the real performance of python, even when processing is done by a real language19:25
johnxlcuk, GL in an X11 window doesn't require a mode change or anything like that.19:25
lcukjohnx, if my app uses just a single nice widget but the rest is just standard, its gonna be disjointed and jarring and the underlying interface ppl will have to write 2 sets of things for 2d and 3d19:25
lcukno, but gl in a window is not the same as whats offered by qt widgets19:26
johnxliqbase and canola are already different from the core widget set. doesn't really seem that jarring to me I guess19:26
derfI just have to laugh that Nokia spent all this effort to use things like busybox to save a few KB of disk space and shave a second or two off boot times, and the first thing their users do is say, "Let's put Python on it!"19:27
SavagoI'm getting the dreaded "qemu: uncaught target signal 11" when calling qmake inside of scratchbox.19:27
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mind if i send in a patch for adv-backlight for loosing libdsme dependancy?19:27
lcukyes but if liqbase and canola want to sit pretty inside the existing frameworks then it should be completely transparent changeover19:27
rm_youStskeeps: hrm19:27
lcukanyway, hometime, back shortly19:27
rm_youStskeeps: we'll look at whatever patches you send it19:27
rm_you*send in19:27
Stskeepsrm_you: cos the libdsme code is a wrapper over a unix socket connect and .. send().19:28
rm_youas long as it doesn't break stuff, we should be ok :P19:28
rm_youbrb shower19:28
Stskeepsrm_you: saw the deblet adv-backlight?19:28
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rm_youbut brb19:29
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VDVsxHi everyone, in the maemo OS exist any system call to turn on and off the bluetooth adapter ?19:31
Stskeepsrm_you: when you're back from shower19:32
qwerty12VDVsx: Sure, dbus can do it. I can't remember the exact dbus-send command but switchonbt has it in it's scripts19:32
VDVsxqwerty12, thanks, I gonna take a look in the maemo d-bus docs19:33
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GeneralAntillesderf, Nokia didn't put Python on the tablets.19:36
GeneralAntillesIt isn't officially supported. . . .19:36
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derfGeneralAntilles: I never said they did.19:36
yacoobso, my poor tablet is now in evil hands of nokia support19:38
yacoobwe'll see whether they can fix it.19:38
qwerty12yacoob: What happened?19:38
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yacoobqwerty12, it's in the backlog, two nights back. In short: it has developed some condition, that caused it to instantly power off the moment I close battery cover.19:39
yacoobOr slide/close keyboard. Or squeeze. Or close the stand.19:39
qwerty12Ouch >.<19:39
yacoobgenerally, some physical impact -> tablet goes off19:39
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yacoobqwerty12, yeah, I've been suspecting the funny latch on the battery cover, and I've tried to play with it. Some success (I was able to close the battery cover :) but didn't get to the point where it wouldn't power off after some random pokes...19:41
GeneralAntillesAh, "their users"19:41
GeneralAntillesmisread, nevermind.19:41
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GeneralAntillesWhere in the world did they get "As the mystery deepens, Max is forced to battle enemies beyond the natural world and face an unthinkable betrayal." from Max Payne? <_<19:45
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johnxfrom their butts19:45
rm_youStskeeps: coolbeans19:45
rm_youStskeeps: submit your patch, i'll review it, and it'll probably get pushed next minor update (when i fix the volume mute bug)19:46
GeneralAntillesjohnx, apparently.19:46
GeneralAntillesrm_you, no, push the volume bug update, then push the Deblet patch AFTER. :P19:47
GeneralAntillesStats whoring, stats whoring, stats whoring.19:47
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you have a point :P19:47
rm_youi'll make sure to wait a couple weeks inbetween as well :P19:47
rm_youStskeeps: k, submit your patch, i'll build and release like, tonight :P19:47
GeneralAntillesBut make sure you introduce some minor cosmetic bug19:48
rm_youI try not to INTRODUCE bugs, even for stats whoring :P19:48
Stskeepsrm_you: , but i haven't had a chance to test it (my tablet is reinstalling deblet..), and please note the comment in the _init since you probably test in scratchbox, but i tested it dpkg-buildpackage's19:52
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Jaffajuergbi: it makes no sense to me to have a garage project which'd just be build scripts or patches - or, at worst case - a fork. mud's gotta be better for maintaining the build scripts.19:57
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juergbiJaffa: ok, good :) i should be following the online howtos to see how to keep the packages uptodate, right?19:58
Stskeepsrm_you: and that isn't a deblet patch, it's just getting away from having to hax libdsme :P19:58
Stskeepsrm_you: but it certainly helps me, i really don't want to add libdsme of all things to deblet19:58
rm_youthat's fine20:02
rm_youjust... could you actually test it first? :P20:02
Stskeepssure, when i'm done debootstrapping20:02
Jaffajuergbi: yeah - basically you can point a mud XML file at subversion or a release tarball, add a patch to debian/... to pull in the .vapi files and it's good to go. There're ones already there (sub-optimal) as a starting point. Feel free to ask on the list for help20:03
rm_youk i have class and work now, but i'll check it out tonight20:03
rm_youpost it via garage?20:03
rm_youafter testing20:03
juergbiJaffa: ok, thx, will do this asap20:03
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Jaffajuergbi: cool20:04
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Stskeepsneat smiley20:19
lcukjaffa, sneezing fit or cat on pooter?20:19
JaffaEager to get home :)20:19
X-FadeJaffa: If you have a few minutes ;)20:20
Stskeepsjohnx: nit-env-lxde is 410 without recommends20:20
johnxhow much with recommends?20:20
* johnx has been playing with a pure matchbox-session20:20
* Stskeeps wonders20:21
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johnxsome of those need to be suggests20:24
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Stskeepsrm_you: patch works fine20:27
bongoI can't install pluthon with eclipse ganymede. is there a known problem?20:27
solmumahaany linux/os x users want to test my video streaming app?20:28
Stskeepsrm_you: added to garage20:29
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rm_youkk will look tonight if i have time20:31
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pupnik810remoo :)20:38
solmumahaevening pupnik81020:38
pupnik810how goes it20:38
solmumahafine, looking for testers for knots20:39
pupnik810still way impressed about the latest speedup in vgba20:39
pupnik810i will be back and can test next thurs-fri20:40
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pupnik810is debian sid vlc ok now?20:40
GAN800we want more pupnik. :P20:40
solmumahanice, i may have german translation by then20:40
pupnik810yeah dosbox neeeds update20:40
solmumahaif you can find 0.9.3, it should do fine20:40
pupnik810oh nand somebody wrote me to ask for duke3d sources.. if you can tar them by next nweek that would be good20:41
pupnik810hi GAN80020:41
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solmumahawould be nice if someone could debianize them and upload to extras20:42
pupnik810yes  extras is where i want to go now20:42
GAN800I should poke some people about the community packaging team.20:43
solmumahaGAN800: please do, it should be good enough for extras20:43
pupnik810thankless work20:44
GAN800Karma points20:45
solmumahai'd gladly put rubybox to extras too if someone could convince alterego to put ruby into extras20:45
GAN800Haven't seen him in months. :(20:46
solmumahahe's here at freenode20:46
solmumahaand still has the sources20:47
GAN800Is he now?20:47
solmumahaah, not atm20:47
GAN800Wonder why he stopped coming here20:47
solmumahawork he said20:47
solmumahai talked to him and he wasn't too negative about it20:47
* pupnik810 has lots to do :) ttyl1a20:48
solmumahabut then started ignoring me :)20:48
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solmumahaGAN800: you are an os x user?20:48
solmumahawanna test my video streaming app? :)20:49
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solmumahait's pretty easy to setup in os x20:49
solmumahajust download VLC 0.9.3 and install it Applications20:49
GeneralAntillesDone. ;)20:49
solmumahathen the worst part :(20:49
solmumahadownload the 3 debs for chinook20:50
solmumahacan't remember the order, but i guess libruby was first20:51
johnxdownload to same dir, dpkg -i *deb :)20:51
johnxI always let dpkg sort 'em out20:51
solmumahak, that works then, thanks :)20:51
GeneralAntillesI don't know where Google gets the numbers for GrandCentral20:52
GeneralAntillesI get the weirdest calls on that line.20:52
GeneralAntillessolmumaha, then?20:55
solmumahaunless someone else wants to try it too20:58
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Barnabashey dudes21:11
Barnabasis there a way to set the time of the backlight to 60minutes bye xterm21:12
johnxsure, there's a trick with gconf to add more times to the GUI21:12
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Barnabascan you show me maybe?:)21:15
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johnxtrying to dig it up, hang on a sec :)21:15
Barnabasit suckt when i am watch a movie and every few seconds the light turns off21:15
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lcukshouldnt the backlight remain on when playing movies tohugh21:16
lcuki was sure it did21:16
johnxit should and it usually does, except when it doesn't21:16
Barnabasi use mplayer....and it doesnt:) or is there a funktion in the app21:17
lcuki think theres a difference or bug wiht dim vs off21:19
lcukif the 2 values are set to the same i believe it remains lit21:19
ssvbBarnabas: what kind of device and OS do you have?21:19
Barnabasn770 with HE200721:19
GeneralAntillesAnybody know how to fix a blank Application menu?21:19
johnxGeneralAntilles, happening to you or someone else?21:20
GeneralAntillesFor the second time in two months21:20
johnxls /usr/share/applications/hildon/21:20
GeneralAntillesAfter installing a package on an almost full disk21:20
GeneralAntillesjohnx, everything you'd expect21:20
GeneralAntillesupdate-desktop-database does nothing21:21
johnxwonder what files it opens21:21
johnxlook in ~/ for cache files?21:21
johnxactually, does update-desktop-database run as user or root?21:21
GeneralAntillesTrying to update database for directory '/usr/local/share/applications'21:22
GeneralAntillesCould not create cache file in directory '/usr/local/share/applications':21:22
GeneralAntillesError opening directory '/usr/local/share/applications': No such file or directory21:22
johnxpointed to the wrong place21:23
johnxI wonder what freaked it out21:23
GeneralAntillesCould not create cache file in directory '/usr/share/applications': Permission denied21:23
GeneralAntillesNo directories in update-desktop-database search path could be processed and updated.21:23
GeneralAntillesAs user21:23
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ssvbBarnabas: that's unsupported version of OS unfortunately21:25
GeneralAntillesHrm, permission denied on /usr/share/applications too.21:25
johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah, well being root would help of course :P21:25
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Barnabasssvb:..what does that mean for me?21:25
GeneralAntillesjohnx, that was as root.21:25
GeneralAntillesdrwxr-xr-x    7 1000     1000         1024 Oct 10 14:22 applications21:25
GeneralAntillesOr maybe not.21:26
johnxGeneralAntilles, how the heck did that happen21:26
Barnabasssvb:..what does that mean for me?21:27
ssvbBarnabas: I heared that downgrading mplayer to version mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.24.n770_armel.deb may help21:27
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johnxanyways, now it's really time for me to sleep21:28
johnxgood luck GeneralAntilles21:28
Barnabasmhh is this still worked fine with canola youtube plugin?21:28
GeneralAntillesjohnx, damn you! :P21:28
johnxGeneralAntilles, fix the permissions on applications/21:29
johnxshould be root:root21:29
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* GeneralAntilles sighs.21:33
GeneralAntillesNo luck21:33
ssvbBarnabas: don't know, it is up to you to try21:33
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lardmanevening all21:34
* GeneralAntilles really doesn't want to have to reclone. . . .21:36
johnxGeneralAntilles, ok, fixed permissions, reran that update as root? right? no luck still?21:36
GeneralAntillesStill no luck21:37
johnxand the update works ok now that you're root?21:38
GeneralAntillesYeah, no evidence of failure.21:38
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johnxhmm, look at the permissions for things under applications/21:38
johnxdo they look sane?21:39
GeneralAntilles-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         2355 Oct 10 01:58 defaults.list21:40
johnxs/?/to you?/21:40
infobotjohnx meant: do they look saneto you?21:40
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GeneralAntillesShould .desktops have +x?21:40
johnxrw-r-r for .desktops21:41
GeneralAntillesThen yes21:41
johnxnothing else owned by random users?21:41
yergaGeneralAntilles, /home/user/.osso/menus/ is blank?21:42
yergatry removing it (backup to somewhere), and running update-desktop-database21:43
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't recreate it.21:44
yergaI failed ;)21:45
GeneralAntillesNo component for the application menu?21:47
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Barnabasbtw a little notice....the upgrade fix the problem with the backlight;) thx guys21:47
RST38hGeneral: No21:48
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RST38hGeneral: Still here?21:50
RST38hcat /usr/share/applications/hildon-navigator/applications-menu.desktop21:51
RST38h please21:51
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RST38hls -l /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/ please21:53
GeneralAntilles-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        20908 Aug 11 04:04 libhd-applications-menu-settings.so21:55
RST38hall righty...21:55
RST38hls -l /usr/share/menu21:57
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yergaGeneralAntilles, cp /etc/xdg/menus/ /home/user/.osso/menus/ ?21:58
GeneralAntillesyerga, that did it.21:58
GeneralAntillesNow, what's going to happen the next time it's updated?21:59
lardmanslightly, ot how can I tell the size of a vorbis file's comments?21:59
yergaok, with the extras applications too?21:59
yergaGeneralAntilles, test it installing something21:59
GeneralAntillesyerga, all 3rd-party applications are now in Extras.21:59
* Stskeeps notes to himself -not- to touch the xscreenserver lock button..21:59
yergait's better than nothing ;)22:00
yergaGeneralAntilles, some reason why it got corrupted?22:00
GeneralAntillesMoving stuff around in Panels works fine.22:00
GeneralAntillesyerga, package install on a very full fs.22:01
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RST38hAnybody willing to bet on DOW hitting 8999 today? =)22:01
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yacoobanyone tested new maemo mapper?22:03
RST38hyep. works.22:03
yacoobwhat's new there? can't test for myself at the moment.22:03
badduhi again lardman: i tried your sharedmem program, if i specify the location of the mmapped buffer with PRAGMA it doesn't load it to the dsp22:03
RST38hI did not notice anything specific22:05
lcukdidnt i read something about maemo mapper losing its icon22:05
RST38hstill there for me22:06
lardmanbaddu: do you have some code I could look at?22:06
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baddulardman: it was your sharedmem test has completely died, it seems...22:06
gregoroviusnow that you say, I installed the maemo-mapper update and now it's not in my menu anymore22:06
Stskeepsjohnx: scaringily, the no-recommends broke nm-applet O_o22:06
yacoobtwo people reported that happening on too (maemo)22:07
yacoob(maemo mapper, that is :)22:07
RST38hgregor: maybe it does not update caches?22:07
lcukgregorovius, others are having similar22:07
RST38hthen a reboot may fix it22:07
lcukits something to do with failing postinst22:07
baddubut i don't know how our environment differs. the problem seems to be that if i use own lcf-file it seems to ignore that and claims that it tries to put the stuff to DARAM (and no space left)22:07
GeneralAntillesRST38h, bugzilla's working fine. :P22:08
GeneralAntillesAs is the wiki22:08
lardmanbaddu: do you use the .cmd file?22:08
RST38hbut not the downloads/22:08
gregoroviusthanks lcuk, I'll just wait for it to get figured out22:08
RST38hand I am not gonna file ANOTHER bug on non-working maemo.org22:08
lardmanbaddu: if dsp_dld doesn't know the memory region it tries to place it in DARAM, then SARAM22:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, we're in a server transition period, so there's no point.22:09
lcukgregorovius,  though im sure theres some 400 line incantation you could try manually with the OSK ;)22:09
yacoobjudging from the changelog, it's only bugfixes22:09
baddulardman: yes, as linker parameter. but the loader seems to ignore that. so the information should be in that module.o file, am i right?22:09
lardmanno, dsp_dld also looks for a linker command file with the same name as the module + a .cmd extension22:10
lardmane.g. shared_mem.o + shared_mem.cmd22:10
badduthats very valuable information :)22:10
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badduthanks, i thought that i used that already with no help but i must be wrong22:11
lardmanmake sure you give the cmd file name in the avs_kernel.conf file (something like that!)22:11
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lardman /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf22:12
lardmanclose ;)22:12
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to beat up the Nokia folks still using 'maemo'.22:14
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badduok, in the dsp_dld_avs.conf there is no mention about other module's cmd files?22:14
lcukGeneralAntilles, ? i thought nokia still owned maemo, we just had (its like a bad divorce)22:15
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GeneralAntilleslcuk. . . .22:16
lardmanbaddu: are you using a standard Maemo installation?22:16
GeneralAntillesIt's "Maemo"22:16
baddulardman: yep22:16
lardmanbaddu: the last column should be full of paths to .cmd files22:16
lcuknot according to the "about product" screen on my N810 its not22:17
lcuk"Internet Tablet OS: maemo Linux based OS2008"22:17
baddulardman: you're right, once again :) it's because of this vi and xterm (or the user of them)22:17
GeneralAntillesIt's deprecated and incorrect22:17
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GeneralAntillesI filed a bug about it22:17
lardmanbaddu: no worries, been there done that, cursed alot ;)22:17
GeneralAntillesIt'll be fixed soon enough.22:17
* lcuk wonders why peoplecare about case sensitivity22:18
GeneralAntillesIt's a grammar thing22:18
GeneralAntillesIt's a proper noune22:18
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lardmanlcuk: perhapsitsalsobecauseifyoustartlosingcasesensitivityitsonlyashortsteptoothergrammaticalissues?22:18
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lardmanwow that was hard to type without using space :)22:19
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derfGeneralAntilles was compiled with -pendatic. It's why he has the job he has.22:21
GAN800-asshole, too!22:22
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derfThat's a feature. Girls like assholes.22:23
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* lcuk kicks itt forum software. on the front page if it says someone posted can i make it always go to the latest one instead of taking me to the point where i last read22:39
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lcuknot quite gen, ive still got to click on the specific page i want, the front thing which just says "active forum topics" which doesnt have real details is ideal, but i want it to always go to last post in the thread22:43
lcukthanks though :)22:43
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GAN800Then click the last page and hit end22:44
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solmumahaany other adventureous willing to try my video streaming app?22:49
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ircleuserwheres the hash key on an apple keyboard, bloody hate macs!22:53
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RST38hMac users do not need the hash key22:55
JamieBennett<alt> and 3 apparently22:56
solmumahai do22:56
JamieBennett(on a UK keyboard)22:56
GAN800ircle sucks22:56
RST38hAnybody ever worked with Freescale ARM11 boards?22:57
GAN800JamieBennett, read: you hate things you don't understand?22:57
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lcukpressed too many <alt> f keys ;)22:59
GAN800Maybe he missed and hit cmd22:59
RST38hwho doesn't?22:59
GAN800There's no alt-f4 on Mac23:00
* RST38h quietly salivates over Freescale's 90nm ARM SoC datasheet23:02
GAN800ARM11 is the past23:02
RST38h"And all I got was that 300MHz MIPS"23:02
RST38hGAN: Who cares about fashion? It runs at 500+MHz, has separate 16k+16k 1st level caches and a 128k 2nd level cache23:03
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RST38hIt is more than sufficient to do the job, past or not23:04
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GAN800I want that OMAP4 with lowpower DDR223:04
GAN800Anybody got a time machine?23:05
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hrwRST38h: i.mx31/37 ones?23:05
lcuki cant wait for the omap5 with neural interfacing23:05
crashanddieliqmind, sketching, moving the cursor just by thoughts23:06
hrwnokia n96 phone is ST Nomadik not omap so who knows.. maybe nokia changes provider of cpus?23:06
crashanddiethink of an image, send it to your mate23:06
RST38hhrw: yep23:06
RST38hGAN: OMAP4 sounds sane but forget about ddr223:06
hrwomap4 will use ddr723:07
lcukcrashanddie, why are all your pictures blocked by google safe search23:08
RST38hHow do MCIMX31 and MCIMX31L compare speed-wise with OMAP2 in N8x0?23:08
lcukmy eyes, the goggles, they do nothing23:08
hrwRST38h: no idea23:08
crashanddieoh shit, wrong nickname23:08
hrwRST38h: but atleast for imx you get opengl es officially23:08
RST38hlcuk: He is probably nude there, on top of black velvet to make it easier for google's automatic filters23:09
RST38hhrw: The part I am looking at does not seem to have 3D hw. It has only got VFP1123:10
RST38hAnd some Image Processing Unit with blending, inversion, and rotation features23:11
hrwRST38h: I hope to have imx31 hardware at home in 1-2 months23:11
GeneralAntillesN96 is an ARM9? :\23:11
hrwand then I will be able to test23:11
hrwGeneralAntilles: arm926 core23:11
hrwGeneralAntilles: with HW h.264 decoder23:12
hrwand few other formats23:12
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* GeneralAntilles wishes we could use ours.23:12
RST38hAh, the 31L part has no GPU but 31 apparently does23:12
RST38hSo N96 is more of a step back?23:13
RST38hhrw: Depending on how things go, I may be able to test it for you before that :)23:13
hrwI would not thing that n96 is step back23:14
hrwits Nseries so multimedia oriented. and st nomadik should give nice power for decoding23:15
* RST38h reads up on Nomadik23:16
RST38hSTM has got ARM11-based Nomadik parts right now23:19
RST38hWhy did Nokia use ARM9?23:20
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lcukGeneralAntilles, how can you call the hard work i've put in "cheating" ?  its lateral thinking23:25
GAN800What I mean to say is that it's not generally applicable.23:26
GAN800You seemed to be suggesting that there was no issue with the controller23:26
GAN800but there clearly is23:27
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lcukagreed in principle, but in the face of the alternative (lowering resolution and using onboard framebuffer) was probably a worse solution23:30
lcukit works as it stands now, its allowed every single one of us to do lots of cool interesting stuff23:30
lcukso its not a failure as such, it just doesnt perform under normal load as expected - like a ferrari with a ford engine23:31
GAN800Point being, whatever you've managed to achieve, the controller is a big problem causer for video playback and x23:31
GAN800OMAP3 solves the controller issue for everybody.23:32
lcukno, video playback is fine isnt it? that uses the same "cheat" i do - X11 native mode granted23:32
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lcukcya hrw23:32
hrw|goneGAN800: if will be used properly23:32
lcukomap3 solves it better if the IVA is available23:32
GAN800It's limited in the amount of data you can push.23:32
lcukleaving the cpu to do much more23:32
RST38hIVA has no direct effect on this23:32
GAN800hrw, how do you mean?23:32
lcukIVA can decode video leaving cpu to do other things23:32
RST38hlcuk, IVA is an ARM723:33
RST38hor ARM9 in OMAP323:33
lcukand, its specialised for decoding23:33
lcukits a custom chip that i would rather was in use than sat idle23:33
RST38hIt can't really decode video very fast. I know, I tried. So it most likely feeds DSP with data, doing MPEG stream parsing23:33
GAN800Whatever the decoder, you wont have the horrifying tearing issues with OMAP3.23:33
GAN800The Cortex will likely do a lot better with NEON optimizations.23:34
RST38hGAN: Oh, we will. It is very easy to create a horrifying tearing issue! =)23:34
lcukRST38h, look at the current device, the cpu runs fullout trying to do everything itself whilst at least 2 ARM cores sit completely 100% idle, i really dont want a repeat23:35
lcukwe have been told one of those idle cores will be used, its a perfectly valid question to ask if the other one will be as well23:35
GAN800lcuk, that's fine, but irrelevant to the controller discussion.23:35
GAN800Two, actually23:36
GAN800The ISP will be used for the camera, I'm sure.23:36
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lcukthen we will get an answer in the affirmative and ill jump for joy :D23:36
* lcuk just wants to use all the available features :)23:37
GAN800I don't think the IVA will really offer much23:37
lcukrealtime movie encoding and decode23:37
GAN800You're likely better off using the DSP or SIMD.23:37
GAN800The Cortex is a more capable decodee.23:38
RST38hlcuk: What 2 ARM cores?23:38
RST38hlcuk: One is the main CPU and it is busy. The only idle one is the IVA23:39
RST38hPowerVR is no ARM core23:39
lcukRST38h, there are currently 4 complete arm cores inside our 242023:39
RST38hlcuk: Which ones?23:39
lcukits a customized convoluted core, but yes it is one23:39
lcukcpu, pvr, dsp, iva23:40
RST38hAFAIK, PowerVR has nothing to do with ARM23:40
lcukhave a look closer :)23:40
RST38hDSP has nothing to do with ARM either23:40
RST38hlcuk: Wel those bastards do not let me23:40
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RST38hDOW 8579! Oh shit.23:44
lcukdamn lower than you suggested earlier23:44
RST38hit's crazy23:45
derfIt's awesome is what it is.23:45
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RST38hI can predict stuff but can't predict crazy shit23:46
GAN800Do I get to fight the zombies yet?23:46
RST38hGAN: The first wave is homeless stock brokers23:46
RST38hWhatever score you make there, becomes the second wave after it rots a bit23:47
lardman|tvIVA is an ARM9 on omap2 and is the DSP on omap323:50
lardman|tvjust fyi23:50
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RST38hlardman: you mean, omap2 has ARM9+DSP and OMAP3 has just the DSP?23:51
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lardmanomap2 has arm11 main core, + arm9 iva + dsp23:51
lardmanomap2 has cortex main core + dsp (which they call the iva)23:51 they basically got rid of the iva23:52
lardmanyes, and moved its functionality (presumably) inside the DSP23:52
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zapand the DSPs are cardinally different23:56
lcuklardman, looking at the block diagrams its not gone23:56
lardmanlcuk: do you have an url?23:56
zapomap 2xxx uses TI54xx DSP, and 3xxx uses TI6xxx; it's like comparing x86_64 to a z8023:57
lardmanzap: yes, c55x vs c64x23:57
RST38hx86 i pretty similar to z80 =)23:57
lardmanhmm, not that large a difference (from what I've read), but certainly significant23:57
lcuksorry lardman, yes a distinct dsp as currently known isnt there, but the cores still have to be seperate23:58
RST38hinstruction set wise, it is almost a superset, I would say :)23:58
GeneralAntillesGreat, Atom-guy is back on itT.23:58
zapti64xx executes 8 instructions every clock23:58
GeneralAntillesThis is after the 2nd time he said he'd never come back.23:58
lcukie powervr must operate without messing with cpu, and iva must operate without effecting the other stuff23:58
zapit's VLIW23:58
RST38hBuy him an ASUS already!23:58
lardmanlcuk: yes, but that's as it is on the omap2 as well23:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, are you seriously arguing with DSP-man about the DSP? :P23:59
RST38hzap: is it pipelined or just has 8 ALUs in parallel?23:59
lcukyes, but on omap2, its a distinctly named and in function dsp23:59
zap8 ALUs23:59
zapevery command is 256 bits - 8 commands by 32 bits23:59
RST38hshould make a nice mpeg decoder =)23:59

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