IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-10-08

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RST38h	crashanddie: Have you applied obligatory torture to the poor thing?	00:17
RST38h	as in persuading him that c++ is actually a subset of html made for embedded devices?	00:17
crashanddie	when did I post it?	00:17
crashanddie	21:57	00:17
crashanddie	[22:15] (NthDegree) lazertek: in PHP you have all your strings auto-assigned and don't need char arrays.. all functions work on strings	00:17
crashanddie	My base is doing it for me	00:18
RST38h	do all php functions work on strings? =)	00:18
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Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet2.png <- progress, yay	00:20
crashanddie	RST38h, no	00:21
whodat	can someone explain this red pill thing too me, i dont get it	00:22
crashanddie	whodat, you don't need it, forget about it	00:22
whodat	how do you know i dont need it? ;)	00:23
qwerty12_N800	because you are asking what it is.	00:23
RST38h	whodat: You know you do not need it when you don't know what it is	00:23
RST38h	If you know what it is you need it	00:23
qwerty12_N800	i'm not crashanddie and even i can see that.	00:23
RST38h	Is it clear enough>	00:23
crashanddie	"So run back to your mum, your computer and your crack-pipe"	00:24
crashanddie	sorry, off topic	00:24
whodat	lol	00:24
whodat	its step #5 in this tutorial.	00:24
crashanddie	whodat, ok, I'll try to be quick and painless	00:25
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crashanddie	whodat, red pill mode will effectively enhance the app manager with features no end user should need. If you find a tutorial that says you need red pill mode, they're probably wrong and it's probably outdated.	00:26
whodat	for installing the beta of voip internet connectionn	00:26
crashanddie	whodat, it will enhance the app manager so much, that it will effectively BREAK your installation	00:26
crashanddie	and in 99% of cases, force you to reflash	00:26
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qwerty12_N800	btw, anyone know Nokia Chat is about?	00:27
qwerty12_N800	what^	00:27
crashanddie	whodat, It is always said clearly "only activate red pill if you know what you are doing", which obviously you don't, hell, even I don't. It's funny, I love it for the matrix reference, but please, unless you want an excuse to reflash, don't use it	00:27
whodat	cras: it just shows more options(buttons) in the app manager?	00:27
crashanddie	whodat, no, it is going to remove filters about which packages to install, it will show all the packages (even libraries, and shit no one cares about), and remove most of the compatibility checks or sumthin	00:28
whodat	oh, so it adds more repositories.	00:28
crashanddie	no	00:28
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crashanddie	don't try to outsmart this one, it won't work	00:29
crashanddie	whodat, the repositories contain a whole lot of libraries, specifically, packages which are listed as belonging to something else than user/* categories	00:29
crashanddie	these, by default, or not shown by the package manager (and when trying to install such a .deb, it will yell that the package is incompatible)	00:30
whodat	yeah i know what repositories are, i am only new to maemo, not linux	00:30
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crashanddie	obviously, you're not that much of a guru	00:30
crashanddie	no offence	00:30
whodat	how do you figure? ;)	00:31
mikkov_	use apt&dpkg instead of red pill	00:31
crashanddie	indeed	00:31
whodat	mikk: yes, thats what i did.	00:31
crashanddie	whodat, most operations can be carried out with root access, using apt-get (which is the best approach), or using dpkg (though apt will start getting fuzzy after a while)	00:32
crashanddie	qwerty12_N800, you still owe me a beer	00:32
crashanddie	wait, no, I haven't met you yet, have I,	00:33
crashanddie	?	00:33
whodat	cras: i know that too, just learning the maemos UI.	00:33
lcuk	you will be waiting a while, the shop wont serve him	00:33
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crashanddie	sure they will	00:33
RST38h	http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm	00:33
crashanddie	qwerty12 wouldn't be the first under age youth I'd help get to a beer :P	00:33
qwerty12_N800	crashanddie, nope :)	00:33
qwerty12_N800	lol	00:33
RST38h	Wonderful, exactly what we need, yes	00:33
crashanddie	FUCK, why did I just say that on a publicly logged channel	00:33
qwerty12_N800	/whois crashanddie	00:34
dick-richardson	lol!	00:34
crashanddie	oh well, neighbour's network anyway :P	00:34
crashanddie	I think I'm just going to stfu now	00:34
mikkov_	now they know that too	00:34
crashanddie	before I confess to murder	00:34
whodat	crash: so where does /var/log/messages i am used to live on maemos	00:34
qwerty12_N800	good enough to pinpoint yoour location :p	00:34
crashanddie	whodat, doesn't exist	00:35
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mikkov_	whodat: nowhere	00:35
Mousey	whodat, apt-get install sysklogd	00:35
whodat	so all I have is dmesg?	00:35
crashanddie	or install sysklogd	00:35
crashanddie	'-_-	00:35
Mousey	until you install syslog, yah	00:35
Mousey	while true ; do tail dmest ; sleep 2 ; clear ; done	00:36
whodat	mousey: i read a tutorial on getting ssysklogd working, it seemed to be more involved than just installing the package	00:36
Mousey	s/dmest/dmesg/	00:36
infobot	Mousey meant: while true ; do tail dmesg ; sleep 2 ; clear ; done	00:36
mikkov_	logging on battery powered embedded device isn't that wise	00:36
RST38h	depends on how many entries you are making per minute	00:36
mikkov_	you never know when you start logging ;)	00:37
RST38h	flight recorders are embedded and battery powered too	00:37
mikkov_	but they are made for logging ;)	00:37
crashanddie	RST38h, but the battery is a few tonnes of kerosene	00:37
RST38h	crashanddie: no, it has got its own batteries, same as an airbag in your car	00:37
qwerty12_N800	whodat, yer, you have to add sdk repo which can be in the list of what not to do with application manager. instead grab the debs and install with dpkg	00:38
* qwerty12_N800 can't figure why i say yer. i blame lcuk :p		00:38
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whodat	qwerty: i am trying to get some logging out of the voip client. all it says in the UI is 'cant connect'	00:39
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crashanddie	whodat, what voip client?	00:40
Mousey	well there's always the while loop	00:40
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whodat	cras: the one that comes with OS2008	00:42
crashanddie	whodat, would you mind typing my full nickname?	00:42
whodat	lol but its so long ;)	00:43
crashanddie	whodat, cra[TAB]	00:43
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whodat	crashanddie: with tab i have to backspace because it adds an extra space. but I will do it just for you <g>	00:45
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whodat	hmm is there a 3rd party voip client for maemos	00:48
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* Stskeeps swears at him not being able to make the locales work in hildon on other OS'es		01:18
gregorovius	etrunko: I just posted on the canola beta 10 thread; I installed it from extras-devel, but it refuses to start up	01:19
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Stskeeps	\o/	01:21
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etrunko	gregorovius: can you please try the cleanup script ant then install it again?	01:23
gregorovius	etrunko: I don't see it for installation anywhere, should it be in extras? extras-devel?	01:23
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etrunko	gregorovius: under tools extras-devel	01:24
etrunko	gregorovius: found it?	01:26
etrunko	if you haven't installed it yet, please run it like canola -vv	01:26
gregorovius	etrunko: found it, i'm trying to figure out how to use it :)	01:27
gregorovius	Usage: canola-cleanup <executable>	01:27
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Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet3.png , http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet4.png	01:28
* Stskeeps goes to bed		01:28
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etrunko	gregorovius: there is an icon in the menu	01:29
etrunko	under extras	01:29
etrunko	Stskeeps: nm? r000000cks!	01:30
etrunko	oh my	01:30
etrunko	a dream come true!	01:30
gregorovius	etrunko: it's not showing up for me :S	01:30
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etrunko	gregorovius: weird	01:31
etrunko	so	01:31
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etrunko	gregorovius: canola-cleanup /usr/share/canola-celanup/cleanup.sh	01:31
Stskeeps	etrunko: deblet + hildon + networkmanager + some cx3110x fixes	01:31
etrunko	Stskeeps: does it work on the device?	01:32
Stskeeps	etrunko: i'm sitting with it in my lap :P	01:32
Stskeeps	so yeah	01:33
etrunko	now that's cool	01:33
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Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet5.png as well	01:36
gregorovius	etrunko: it started up fine after canola-cleanup, thanks	01:37
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gregorovius	I can only select ~, mmc1 or mmc2 as watch folders, not subfolders of those... is that on purpose?	01:39
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etrunko	gregorovius: the subfolders are available only if you have not checked the parent folder	01:40
gregorovius	etrunko: I haven't checked the parent folder, and clicking on 'internal card' or any other doesn't show me the subfolders	01:41
etrunko	just click on the list item	01:41
etrunko	hmm	01:41
etrunko	is there a grey icon on the left? that indicates there are subfolders there	01:42
gregorovius	nope	01:42
gregorovius	gah, nevermind	01:43
gregorovius	file manager isn't seeing the mmc card either, it's not canola-related	01:43
etrunko	in this case there are no subfolders there	01:44
etrunko	:)	01:44
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gregorovius	etrunko: is ogg vorbis supposed to work out of the box now?	01:51
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etrunko	gregorovius: you only need ogg-support-lightmediascanner installed	01:56
etrunko	which is available from kulve's repo	01:56
gregorovius	oh, that's had a missing dependency since diablo! it works now, thanks	01:58
etrunko	gregorovius: yup	02:01
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Robot101	X-Fade: pong	02:26
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: it was the cable	02:34
GeneralAntilles	EruditeHermit, weird.	02:34
GeneralAntilles	I have a couple of those myself and I'm at a total loss to explain what's different about them.	02:34
GeneralAntilles	You get it working?	02:34
EruditeHermit	hmm	02:34
EruditeHermit	I haven't flashed yet	02:34
EruditeHermit	but it is loading stuff from flasher	02:34
EruditeHermit	I loaded a backup kernel onto it	02:34
EruditeHermit	but it still reboot looped	02:35
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EruditeHermit	how do I disable lifeguard reset	02:35
EruditeHermit	or whatever is causing the reboot loop	02:35
EruditeHermit	I want to try everything to recover this before reflashing	02:35
EruditeHermit	if possible	02:35
GeneralAntilles	flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset	02:35
EruditeHermit	I do have a backup if I need to reflash, but a reflash takes a while to get back	02:36
EruditeHermit	is it possible to boot it with the flash image from my computer and repair it?	02:36
GeneralAntilles	No	02:37
GeneralAntilles	See what lifeguard does	02:37
GeneralAntilles	It'll either boot to a white screen or boot to a desktop	02:37
GeneralAntilles	If wifi is set to automatically connect and you have ssh installed you can get in that way.	02:37
EruditeHermit	yep	02:38
EruditeHermit	I have both setup	02:38
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EruditeHermit	hmm	02:41
EruditeHermit	what is the default user for the tablets?	02:41
EruditeHermit	user?	02:41
GeneralAntilles	Yes	02:41
GeneralAntilles	But it has no password	02:41
EruditeHermit	ok	02:42
EruditeHermit	I am logged in	02:42
EruditeHermit	doing a dpkg --configure -a	02:44
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EruditeHermit	osso-software-version-rx34 depends on pre-installed-documentation-rx34 (= 5.4);	02:46
EruditeHermit	Version of pre-installed-documentation-rx34 on system is 5.3	02:46
EruditeHermit	dependency problems	02:46
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EruditeHermit	dpkg: error processing mce (--configure):	02:51
EruditeHermit	subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1	02:51
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: any ideas?	02:52
GeneralAntilles	What's /home/user/MyDocs/.documents look like?	02:52
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EruditeHermit	http://rafb.net/p/20EotQ43.html	02:53
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: does that tell you anything?	03:00
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EruditeHermit	hm	03:13
EruditeHermit	I think I have managed to recover it	03:14
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: is there a way to get rid of the pdfs without removing osso-software-version?	03:21
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GAN800	Just delete them out of their folder.	03:22
GAN800	Alternatively, just remove the package and osv and not worry about it until the next update.	03:22
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EruditeHermit	is screen rotate supported with the latest Diablo update?	03:30
GAN800	outpo.st/rotate	03:31
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EruditeHermit	GAN800: is that better than http://sse2.net/rotate/	03:34
GAN800	Up to date, yes.	03:34
GAN800	They're bith by the same person.	03:34
EruditeHermit	he should take down the old one	03:35
EruditeHermit	or atleast link to it from the new one and say old version	03:35
GAN800	Well, the new one is still in testing.	03:36
GAN800	The packaging isn't quite there yet.	03:36
EruditeHermit	GAN800: the 1 click install doesn't work	03:37
EruditeHermit	I don't mind doing it manually	03:37
EruditeHermit	what is the 48MHz patch, and do I want it?	03:37
GAN800	Right, we need to figure out why Application manager is being uncooperative.	03:37
* lcuk says no		03:37
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GAN800	lcuk, buy a less shitty sd card.	03:38
GAN800	Speeds up the SD slots	03:38
GAN800	May have incompatibility with some cards.	03:38
lcuk	this shitty sd card is core host for liqbase :) its not shitty	03:38
EruditeHermit	lol	03:39
EruditeHermit	is it reversible?	03:39
GAN800	Just flash another kernel.	03:39
EruditeHermit	by clicking on the other package?	03:39
GAN800	lcuk, well, it doesn't work with 48MHz soooooo	03:39
lcuk	yes, jott installed it on my machien and blocked out the card - he then removed the 44khz patch somehow hand waving ;)	03:39
lcuk	48^	03:39
GAN800	MHz	03:40
lcuk	i dont care, it works for me, i still prefer default kernels	03:40
lcuk	then i dont get used to features which arent there and that go missing after upgrade	03:40
* GAN800 shrugs		03:40
EruditeHermit	unable to install xserver-xomap, incompatible application package	03:41
GAN800	apt-get -f install	03:41
lcuk	GAN800, :) hopefully soon that will be cured by the community distro though	03:42
EruditeHermit	nothing is broken	03:42
EruditeHermit	GAN800: does it require apt-get to install? I was using app man	03:42
GAN800	Yes, that's why the packaging still needs work.	03:42
EruditeHermit	ok	03:43
EruditeHermit	GAN800: does the kernel package automatically flash the kernel?	03:44
EruditeHermit	or do I have to manually flash with fiasco	03:44
GAN800	It flashes itself	03:44
GAN800	The goal is to make it as easy as possible. ;)	03:44
EruditeHermit	ok	03:44
EruditeHermit	so I just need those 2 things?	03:45
EruditeHermit	if it was click and install it would be cool yes	03:45
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EruditeHermit	hmm	03:52
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EruditeHermit	my tablet thinks it is charging	03:52
EruditeHermit	even when it is not connected to the charger	03:52
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dystopia	EruditeHermit: did you feed your tablet alcoholic beverage?	04:02
EruditeHermit	lol	04:02
EruditeHermit	no	04:02
dystopia	well, maybe show it who's in charge ;-)	04:02
yacoob	This is interesting.	04:06
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yacoob	Tablet seemed to be dead. Plugged the charger, still dead. Popped the battery, replaced - ok, it's charging.	04:07
yacoob	Closed the battery cover - boom, dead.	04:07
yacoob	Something seems to be happening when I close the cover, it dies instantly.	04:07
yacoob	anyone meet this failure mode before?	04:10
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yacoob	...yes, I also find this silence very disturbing.	04:12
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derf	Sounds like a short of some kind. Hope it's still under warranty.	04:14
yacoob	ebay 8)	04:16
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yacoob	but yeah, we'll see what will local nokia support say	04:16
lcuk	yacoob, check around the case and where the cover sits and check for any obvious signs of error	04:17
lcuk	is it an 810	04:17
derf	One of my friends sold his old T20 on e-Bay, listing it as broken (with a similar kind of short), and some Russian still bought it for $300. He was like, "You know this is broken, right?" and the guy writes back, "Da. Will fix."	04:17
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yacoob	yeah, n810	04:18
lcuk	the metal pins are easily bent out of position and can end up on the wrong side of the structure, try to find online picture of the inside of your battery case and confirm its correct	04:19
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lcuk	the case is very flimsy and easy to warp	04:20
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yacoob	got it working, but I'm really suspicious right now.	04:22
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dystopia	derf: :D	04:24
yacoob	tried removing battery and assembling it back with full on-off cycle twice now, still works. I guess it will start spewing yellow frogs at me in the morning	04:25
yacoob	(and, if I test the cover few more times, I'll break something, that's for sure... :)	04:25
dystopia	derf: a T20 isn't that a bit much for 300$	04:26
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derf	dystopia: It was a number of years ago.	04:26
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dystopia	actually on ebay you can buy some broken apples, merge them, sell the spare parts, sell the fixed one, and you made a few hunderd bucks	04:29
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yacoob	aha, just killed it.	04:30
dystopia	even some nice RISCs	04:30
dystopia	G5	04:31
dystopia	In nomine Patris et fillii et Spiritus Sancti.	04:31
dystopia	One moment silence, please, our of respect for a dead N810...	04:32
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yacoob	ok, definitely a short	04:40
yacoob	happens when I move the cover down (it's a bit loose)	04:41
yacoob	I was hoping that's the battery being loose, but looks like it's not the case	04:41
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dystopia	so its still alive	04:47
dystopia	when smoke signals start? :0)	04:48
yacoob	thankfully the magic smoke is still in	04:49
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dystopia	:-)	04:49
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dystopia	what if you put isolation on the place of the covr, or push the battery?	04:50
dystopia	or put isolation and then the cover	04:51
yacoob	I'm looking at it right now, but tbh I don't see any places where it might actually shortcircuit	04:51
yacoob	or rather - I believe it's in the middle part of the bottom, near the latching mechanism	04:52
dystopia	hm what if you put the cover on, but that part not?:>	04:53
yacoob	expn :)	04:53
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dystopia	nn	04:58
dystopia	(good luck, yacoob)	04:59
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timeless	anyone seen andre recently?	05:02
GeneralAntilles	timeless, this morning.	05:03
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: when I set lifeguard reset on, I still have a reboot loop	05:03
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: I resolved all dependencies through ssh	05:03
GeneralAntilles	Hrm	05:04
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GeneralAntilles	Was it booting to a desktop or booting to a white screen?	05:04
EruditeHermit	and the tablet works for a while when I disable lifeguard reset but it randomly resets itself	05:04
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: it booted to the nokia white screen	05:05
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: it now boots fine when I disable lifeguard reset	05:05
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: just that it randomly resets	05:05
EruditeHermit	after varying times	05:05
GeneralAntilles	One of the important processes lifeguard is monitoring isn't starting properly.	05:05
EruditeHermit	4mins 10mins	05:05
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: how do I find out which one?	05:06
GeneralAntilles	Maybe installing syslogd	05:08
GeneralAntilles	Did you try an apt-get -f install?	05:08
EruditeHermit	yes	05:08
EruditeHermit	apt-get -f install is all resolved	05:08
EruditeHermit	there is no syslogd package	05:10
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yacoob	hm, might have fixed it.	05:22
yacoob	there are three 'hooks'on the cover - the middle one contacts in two places, near the lock and slightly above. This other place is recessed, so there's a small latch that should contact it	05:24
yacoob	I've bent it slightly, to make sure it does contact.	05:25
yacoob	boots up, survives closing the cover, keyboard slides, whatnot	05:25
yacoob	(or so it seems)	05:25
yacoob	if that's really that small contact, it'd be trivally patchable	05:25
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yacoob	my question is, what does it tries to detect (closing the cover? for what?) and why it was dying when this contact was latching later than the rest	05:26
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yacoob	(from the looks of it, tablet was dying when I pressed the cover down in the area of that small latch, so my guess is that it wasn't contacting in first place, and I made it connect while sliding the keyboard or adjusting the cover)	05:28
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GeneralAntilles	Did the server changeover happen?	05:33
GeneralAntilles	I'm getting 503 on some pages and blistering fast on others.	05:33
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: which package or system is related to power management/battery charging	05:49
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GAN800	bme/mce/dsme	05:59
andre____	timeless, andre is around, but will go to sleep very soon	06:03
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andre____	EruditeHermit, dsme/mce	06:06
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EruditeHermit	hmm	06:07
EruditeHermit	thanks andre__, GAN800	06:07
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EruditeHermit	ok	06:18
EruditeHermit	I think reinstalling all those packages stopped the constant resetting with lifeguard on	06:18
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mgedmin	waah, the screen of my n810 died :(	08:10
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bef0rd	:(	08:16
bef0rd	what happened?	08:16
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EruditeHermit	bef0rd: btw my tablet is working again, the problem was the cable	08:18
EruditeHermit	bef0rd: thanks for your help the other day	08:19
bef0rd	cool, no problem EruditeHermit	08:19
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mgedmin	the lcd appears to be cracked, under the topmost plastic layer (which is fine)	08:20
mgedmin	no idea how it happened, it was in my shirt pocket at the time	08:20
mgedmin	without the protective leather case	08:21
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EruditeHermit	mgedmin: can you get a replacement from nokia?	08:22
mgedmin	don't know	08:22
EruditeHermit	mgedmin: call their customer support	08:22
mgedmin	I'm assuming the worst, of course	08:22
* mgedmin hates phone calls		08:23
EruditeHermit	they have an online form somewhere too	08:23
mgedmin	I'm currently in the US, but I'm going home to Lithuania in ~10 days	08:23
mgedmin	the device was originally bought in the US	08:24
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EruditeHermit	mgedmin: do you have relatives or someone you know in the US?	08:27
mgedmin	someone I know, yes	08:27
EruditeHermit	mgedmin: I would just have it sent to them and have them mail a repair/replacement part to you	08:27
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* mgedmin orders a new tablet from amazon, just in case		08:36
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fluentis	moin @all	08:38
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solmumaha	morning	08:51
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thux	Stskeeps: what you think is best nit-env for deblet? basic-gnome keyboard unlock keyring window problems	09:31
johnx	lxde is nice	09:32
StsN800	thux, im not sure yet	09:32
StsN800	johnx, saw my hildlet post?	09:32
* johnx looks		09:32
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StsN800	under hack challenges	09:33
thopiekar	hi	09:34
StsN800	thux, i think adding yourself to sudoers might help for n800 users	09:35
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qwerty12	StsN800, There's a gconf option where gksu attempts not to be anal retentive by taking over the entire screen	09:36
StsN800	or that	09:36
thux	ok i try	09:38
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moontiger	whats up with maemo.org	09:40
moontiger	??	09:40
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StsN800	hamster in wheel died	09:42
qwerty12	I suspect StsN800 murdered it. With a bus.	09:42
moontiger	ahhhhh the n770 getting a flash update is it?	09:43
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solmumaha	well at least the error message comes up fast	09:45
moontiger	oh well bedtime for me then :)	09:50
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GAN800	Uknown at the moment.	09:52
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RST38h	good mourning, gentlemen	10:23
RST38h	anything new and exciting?	10:23
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notcoolbuthot	.	10:51
Stskeeps	..	10:52
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:54
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RST38h	Mourning, jaffa	10:57
* Stskeeps looks at the pocket loox 720 pda looking lonely at his office and ponders how hildon would work on it		10:58
RST38h	would work less - it is XScale based afaik	10:59
Stskeeps	mm, that good or bad? i guess it would work cos it's arm still?	11:00
RST38h	yep	11:01
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Stskeeps	wb johnx	11:01
RST38h	But the CPU isn't as good as OMAP in terms of power efficiency and (as johnx will probably confirm) performance	11:01
johnx	thanks. my computer's been crashy lately	11:01
Stskeeps	nod	11:01
johnx	RST38h, which one?	11:01
Stskeeps	johnx: got a pocket loox 720 with xscale 400mhz or something laying about in my office doing nothing	11:01
Stskeeps	:P	11:01
RST38h	johnx: Pocket Boobs 720	11:01
johnx	yeah, the armv5 -> armv6 must have been a huge change	11:02
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baddu	any DSP guys around?	11:06
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:06
Jaffa	Oh, I did that.	11:06
* Stskeeps passes Jaffa the coffee		11:07
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* thopiekar loves Pulseaudio^^		11:09
Stskeeps	mmcmobile cards are only way to get 2gb storage on 770s?	11:11
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RST38h	Your normal non-HC SD card will hold up to 2GB	11:18
Stskeeps	mm	11:19
* Stskeeps is trying to find the right memory card for a friend with a 770 so		11:19
RST38h	avoid mmcs, try finding a 2GB SD	11:19
Stskeeps	the 770 actually takes SD or?	11:19
Stskeeps	(with optional flash of kernel)	11:20
johnx	Stskeeps, there's a way to wedge them in but it requires modification of the card or the 770	11:20
Stskeeps	ah	11:20
Stskeeps	i'd like to avoid that :P	11:20
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johnx	there should be rs-mmc cards as big as 2GB	11:24
Stskeeps	yeah, though they're difficult to find	11:24
RST38h	Oh, 770 takes RS-MMC	11:24
RST38h	Sad.	11:24
johnx	I searched for 2GB rs-mmc and found quite a few	11:25
johnx	the prices are lame though	11:25
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lishevita	good morning	11:27
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hrw	morning	11:28
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xorAxAx	hmm, does the n810 need arm6 or arm7	11:59
xorAxAx	(scratchbox toolchain)	12:00
johnx	armv6	12:00
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xorAxAx	thanks	12:01
johnx	but note that armv7 and arm7 are actually different things	12:02
xorAxAx	ah	12:02
xorAxAx	what is arm7?	12:02
xorAxAx	which one of them do i need? :-P	12:03
johnx	an older ARM	12:03
johnx	what exactly is it asking?	12:03
xorAxAx	well	12:03
xorAxAx	i can choose to install scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm6 and scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7	12:03
xorAxAx	(debian package)	12:03
GeneralAntilles	arm6	12:03
xorAxAx	ok	12:03
GeneralAntilles	It should actually read "armv6"	12:03
GeneralAntilles	arm7 would be for OMAP3	12:04
Stskeeps	johnx: did you ever have luck making a debian armel scratchbox (contrary to a maemo scratchbox)	12:04
johnx	I figured that was the case, but I didn't want to lead him astray	12:04
johnx	Stskeeps, never. I gave up essentially.	12:04
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yes, I know _you_ know. ;)	12:04
RST38h	armv* and arm* are two different things	12:04
RST38h	armv* is an architecture, arm* is a basic part name	12:05
Stskeeps	johnx: yeah, i have a armel qemu myself building stuff :P	12:05
johnx	Stskeeps, I should try sb2 again, actually	12:05
mikkov_	Downloads have gone up for almost all applications. Failed SSUs at play ;)	12:05
johnx	but yeah, I'm also working on getting qemu working on "my" build box (really my friend's spare server)	12:05
Stskeeps	johnx: http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/armel/ works every time for me.. and when apt-get dist-upgrade, copy out /boot/initrd* and vmlinuz and use those too	12:06
johnx	Stskeeps, yeah, that's what I'm using...but my friend's box is gentoo and I'm having trouble building gcc3 so I can build qemu, so I can give it a try on his machine	12:07
Stskeeps	ah	12:07
* johnx stabs gentoo		12:07
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Stskeeps	johnx: i was kinda shocked how neat mb-keyboard integrated into hildon when running.. has to be able to make some funny tricks based on that	12:08
Stskeeps	made normal x apps a lot more usable	12:08
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RST38h	moo, zap	12:08
RST38h	johnx: install ubuntu	12:08
X-Fade	mikkov_: Well, it is just the weekly stats update ;)	12:08
johnx	Stskeeps, well hildon is just matchbox+status bar	12:08
Stskeeps	nod	12:08
Stskeeps	what's the real DPI of the screen anyhow?	12:09
johnx	RST38h, that could be somewhat problematic on technical and social levels...	12:09
Stskeeps	since the font sizes are .. insane	12:09
johnx	225 dpi	12:09
Stskeeps	k	12:09
RST38h	johnx: you mean, Japanese care?	12:09
johnx	RST38h, the build box is in Canada. that's the technical issue	12:09
mikkov_	X-Fade: but look at the graphs	12:09
* RST38h knows he doesn't, as long as damn OS does not require constant tinkering		12:09
RST38h	johnx: oh	12:10
mikkov_	download count per week has gone slightly up	12:10
RST38h	download counts are bogus	12:10
RST38h	depend on when somebody at the mothership manually imports repo download data	12:10
X-Fade	RST38h: These ones aren't. I get the actual stats from the caching network.	12:11
RST38h	X-Fade; Ah! You mean this now works for everybody at Garage? =)	12:11
johnx	Stskeeps, if you give the real dpi to Xomap things start making more sense	12:11
X-Fade	RST38h: No, you should have your stuff in Extras ;)	12:11
* RST38h does		12:11
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, can you fix this: http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/logos/ ?	12:11
RST38h	so theoretically it should work	12:12
X-Fade	RST38h: Well, then your stats should be available :)	12:12
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: What needs fixing?	12:12
RST38h	images do not show up	12:13
RST38h	neither of two logos	12:13
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3787 add the SVG and a reasonably sized PNG there.	12:13
X-Fade	Hmm I see them.	12:13
Stskeeps	johnx: apt-get install locales, install en_GB UTF-8 is the trick to get proper titles on things btw	12:13
GeneralAntilles	We should also add the favicon and some other variants, but those need to be gathered.	12:13
RST38h	Weird: they show up in FireFox but not IE	12:14
johnx	Stskeeps, sounds familiar. good to know	12:14
RST38h	I may have proxies misconfigured...	12:14
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X-Fade	RST38h: It doesn't work for me in IE too.	12:14
X-Fade	Very weird.	12:15
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RST38h	BTW, in spite of hardware upgrade, maemo.org is still dead slow whenever a db operation is involved	12:15
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: It links to https.	12:15
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Don't do that ;)	12:16
RST38h	Has anyone considered looking at incoming SQL quesrioes and how db executes them instead of simply adding more power?	12:16
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I didn't do anything.	12:16
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Who did that page?	12:16
Stskeeps	johnx: know of other open source themes btw? i'm kinda wondering what licenses/deriatives/dependancies some of the tablet themes people do have	12:16
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GeneralAntilles	That's all Peter's fault. I'm just playing fire fighter (as usual :P). ;)	12:16
johnx	Stskeeps, I'm not sure anyone knows O_o	12:16
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: You are admin. Fix it :D	12:17
Stskeeps	johnx: LCARS should be first priority.. ;>	12:17
GeneralAntilles	If Bugzilla would just accept this damn png. . . .	12:17
X-Fade	RST38h: Mysql with 250 connections. You know what happens ;)	12:18
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, put the last two attachments from http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3787 wherever images should go on the server.	12:18
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RST38h	XFade: Urgh	12:18
X-Fade	RST38h: A reasonable amount of cpus is needed for that.	12:18
X-Fade	RST38h: And at the moment, it isn't reasonable.	12:18
RST38h	Still, I would at least look at the queries and how MySQL executes them	12:19
RST38h	Because otherwise, you may be fighting an uphill battle	12:19
* GeneralAntilles sighs.		12:20
X-Fade	RST38h: Yes, true. But they don't seem to be that complex.	12:20
* GeneralAntilles wishes dneary had gathered all this up around the time of the end of the logo contest. :P		12:20
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RST38h	XFade: They don't have to be, that is the "beauty" of RDBMS	12:20
X-Fade	RST38h: Well, I wouldn't call mysql that advanced ;)	12:21
RST38h	XFade: A simple join, when executed without proper caution, will bring your RDBMS down	12:21
dneary	GeneralAntilles: ?	12:21
RST38h	MySQL is relatively good nowadays, but do not trust it to optimize stuff for you beyond simple query rewrites	12:21
dneary	gathered all what?	12:21
GeneralAntilles	dneary, hunting down logo stuff for http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/logos/	12:22
GeneralAntilles	Do we have an svg of the favicon?	12:22
dneary	GeneralAntilles: I have a bunch of stuff on trademark policies	12:22
RST38h	So, I would log all the queries + information on how MySQL executes it (something similar to EXPLAIN operator in Postgress)	12:22
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dneary	But I had understood it was a Nokia thing	12:22
dneary	I'm involved in that discussion	12:22
RST38h	+ timing data of course, to see just what exactly is worth optimizing	12:23
X-Fade	RST38h: Sure, but I'd like to see some modern power first. I can do micro optimizations, but the base should be ok.	12:24
RST38h	XFade: Oh, I would not raise it if it were a micro optimization	12:24
RST38h	XFade: What I am talking about is stuff like join of unindexed values - no amount of extra hardware will help you fix these	12:24
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GeneralAntilles	dneary, I just want the various logo files, not any policy stuff.	12:25
X-Fade	RST38h: Sure, but that is pretty much covered already. This is being used in quite a few production environments.	12:25
RST38h	mm...ok	12:25
dneary	ah	12:25
dneary	I got all that stuff piecemeal	12:25
X-Fade	RST38h: Same stuff: http://www.tkk.fi/en/index.html	12:26
RST38h	The way it (Midgard) works makes it kinda hard to believe that this thing is used in production, but if you say so...	12:26
X-Fade	RST38h: And they are fast.	12:26
dneary	and with some of the revisions I'm still not sure if I have the proper versions (there was the small R version, the big R version, etc)	12:26
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, can I just attach images through the Asgard interface for that page?	12:26
RST38h	XFade: TKK does not appear to have that much of dynamic data	12:26
X-Fade	RST38h: Try a static page on maemo.org ;)	12:27
RST38h	Most of its pages can be stored statically	12:27
RST38h	XFade: Yes, but maemo.org has got a shitload of dynamic stuff now =)	12:27
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RST38h	Static stuff at maemo.org is of no concern	12:27
X-Fade	RST38h: Sure, but it has object caches for that.	12:27
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crashanddie	anyone had hands on with the Nokia 5800 ?	12:27
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RST38h	XFade: I kinda doubt they work on maemo.org for typical usage cases (i.e. browsing dynamically created pages why logged in)	12:28
Robot101	X-Fade: you pinged me yesterday?	12:28
RST38h	crash: Still no demo samples at local Nokia stor	12:28
RST38h	s/why/when/	12:28
X-Fade	Robot101: Yes, I wanted to know who was running the Collabora repository ;)	12:29
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* RST38h would also like to know that		12:29
RST38h	To figure out what the status of Collabora Pidgin packages is	12:29
Robot101	one of jonnylamb, wjt or smcv on #telepathy	12:30
X-Fade	Robot101: And wanted to ask if those packages could be moved to Extras.	12:30
Robot101	I think one of the Nokians was already doing that	12:30
crashanddie	the interface seems a bit sluggish	12:31
X-Fade	Robot101: And after that, if the repository could be closed ofcourse.	12:31
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* GeneralAntilles kills self.		12:33
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* deadlyllama wonders if anyone here knows how the big black "Charging" screen on the 770 works		12:34
deadlyllama	and more importantly, how to turn it off (want my 770 to boot normally when I apply power to the charging port)	12:35
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johnx	if it's the same as the n8x0 it starts an x server and displays that animation	12:37
johnx	I don't know what's reponsible for choosing what it does at boot though	12:38
deadlyllama	initfs/linuxrc decides if it will display the splash screen based on /proc/bootreason (which can have the value "charger") plus if it was booted in "ACTDEAD" mode	12:39
deadlyllama	but then the X session comes up and the charging screen appears and I can't work out how to make networking come up then so it's a bit difficult to ssh in and poke around and see what's happening :-(	12:39
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deadlyllama	and I see no obviously named binaries that look obviously like a "display charging screen" app	12:41
deadlyllama	if there was some way to hack something to change /proc/bootreason that would probably also do the trick...	12:47
RST38h	crash: 5800 interface?	12:47
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xorAxAx	when i am using the debian etch devkit, apt-get update doesnt find the package lists ... should i choose lenny?	12:48
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GeneralAntilles	Can anybody make sense of the sidebar on this page? http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/logos/	12:49
GeneralAntilles	I'm entirely at a lot.	12:50
GeneralAntilles	s/lot/loss/	12:50
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: I'm entirely at a loss.	12:50
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RST38h	GAN: What is the problem?	12:50
RST38h	It is a tree, the active item is at the second level	12:51
RST38h	The whole path in the tree is highlighted	12:51
xorAxAx	hmm, and when selecting lenny, any package installation will upgrade your libc	12:51
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, try clicking the "active" item.	12:51
RST38h	xor: because just about any package compiled from C code will depend on a particular libc	12:51
xorAxAx	RST38h: yes	12:52
xorAxAx	sure	12:52
RST38h	GAN: hehe	12:52
xorAxAx	but i wonder what the sanest choice of a devkit is	12:52
RST38h	GAN: You know what it may be? There may be an extra menu item Logos which does not show up for some reason. Lemme check the source code	12:53
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, the hierarchy in the administrative interface makes sense.	12:54
GeneralAntilles	But I don't have a clue how to use Asgard.	12:54
RST38h	The HTML code looks pretty sane, so it has to be a problem in the Midgard	12:54
GeneralAntilles	"<p>\n</p>" classy	12:55
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xorAxAx	RST38h: i just need python2.5 in my arm6 scracthbox	12:56
RST38h	xor: You do not need scratchbox for python	12:56
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RST38h	xor: Just write python stuff wherever you want, scp it to the tablet, and run it there.	12:59
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xorAxAx	RST38h: yeah, probably. how do i get a working sources.list? the debian/maemo3 devkits give me a sources.list that is 404	13:01
xorAxAx	(its using armel/sarge which doesnt seem to work)	13:01
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RST38h	I do not know but what you are saying indicates that your SDK installation is messedup	13:04
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GeneralAntilles	timeless, ping.	13:12
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RST38h	moo, johnx	14:47
lcuk	:D i saw cows playin king of the hill last night	14:48
johnx	m00f	14:48
johnx	~lart johnx's video card	14:48
* infobot offers johnx's video card some herring		14:48
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lcuk	johnx, whats up with your vid card	14:49
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johnx	it's been overheating	14:49
johnx	and crashing my computer	14:49
johnx	just like a second ago	14:49
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lcuk	oooer, have you checked it for dust bunnies n stuff	14:50
lcuk	or just winging it	14:50
johnx	as long as I don't do anything graphically intensive it's fine	14:50
johnx	but yeah, the problem is it's one of those fanless ones	14:50
johnx	worked fine for a year but now it's screwing up	14:51
johnx	back in a sec	14:51
RST38h	lcuk: were there bovine casualties?	14:51
RST38h	johnx: It seems to be a reason enough to ask for a new one	14:51
RST38h	or buy a new one if it is in home computer	14:52
johnx	yeah, I'd have to buy a new one. it's out of warranty (and out of the country I bought it in anyways...)	14:53
johnx	or I could buy a new, cheap fan to blow on it and try and get another 6 months of use out of it	14:53
* Stskeeps should really learn how to solder..		14:53
lcuk	RST38h, there werent any casualties that i saw - but there was a small grassy knoll about 15foot high and about 6 cows jossling up to get onto the top - people all around were laughin :D we missed the traffic lights changing cos of it :$	14:54
* RST38h wonders what they found there. Was that some holy ground? Or an altar of some bovine god?		14:58
RST38h	Or maybe just a patch of magic grass they use to get high?>	14:58
lcuk	i dunno, but its the same with anything, once one starts the rest dont wanna miss out	14:58
RST38h	just like stock brokers, ain't they?	14:59
lcuk	yer, except most stock brokers dont have udders	14:59
RST38h	too bad for them, last opportunity for employment is slipping away =)	15:00
crashanddie	they will have udders in a few days	15:00
crashanddie	being milked as much as they are now	15:00
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CptLaptop	.	15:34
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mrgreaper	hi i need a bit of help with deblet and found this irc channel on there forum can anyone lend a hand please?	16:44
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: indeed, what's up?	16:44
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mrgreaper	ah cool, well i got it installed all perfectly fine (for a linux newb like me thats no mean feat lol) but i cant see how to teather it to my mobile	16:45
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: ah, that's a bit of a complicated issue :P usually it is a bit easier on linux but there's one of the programs people usually use that doesn't work for some reason.	16:46
mrgreaper	at home the wifi works fine but for work i need to teather it via bluetooth to use my mobile phone	16:46
Stskeeps	have you managed to make it pair yet or?	16:46
mrgreaper	i have no idea how lol	16:47
mrgreaper	the old n800 os did it all automaticly	16:47
Stskeeps	yeah, - we're still a work in progress :)	16:47
mrgreaper	so no bluetooth mobile support?	16:48
Stskeeps	well, i discovered this but it's not really newbie friendly, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221269&postcount=16	16:48
Stskeeps	but you can install this package.. sec	16:48
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smyows	i have pidgin for msn, but is very slowly... have another msn (more faster) for os2008?	16:50
aquatix	http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/	16:50
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: apt-get install bluez-gnome	16:50
aquatix	integrates into the default IM thing	16:50
mrgreaper	i cant seem to find the software instalation browser	16:51
aquatix	smyows: hm, i installed it slightly differently than on that page though	16:51
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: but, just to put things in perspective, we've been working on this since june :	16:51
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: so nothing is polished.. and we're hoping to make things a little more shiny and easier to work with	16:51
thux	tried keblet and choosed kdm didn't do autologin, and no keyboard on login window...	16:52
Stskeeps	thux: apt-get install tablet-kdm-autologin	16:52
thux	ah	16:52
mrgreaper	ah dont get me wrong i like the look of it (though bluetooth teathering on a mobile tablet should be an essentiallol)	16:52
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: open a x terminal and su with your root password, and apt-get insatll bluez-gnome	16:52
Stskeeps	install, that is	16:52
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mrgreaper	ok one sec	16:53
johnx	mrgreaper, many of the people working on and using deblet tend to just use the command line...	16:53
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: and yeah, that's one reason why i don't use deblet constantly myself yet :P	16:53
Stskeeps	thux, mrgreaper: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23371&page=6 <- (look at screenshots), anything you might be interested in?	16:55
mrgreaper	looks more familier :)	16:56
mrgreaper	a smaller onscreen keyboard would be nice :)	16:56
mrgreaper	(i use a n800)	16:56
Stskeeps	yeah, well, that one was just cos hildon-input-method isn't that friendly towards non-hildon apps	16:57
* Stskeeps wonders how difficult it would be to make hildon-input-method go for active window instead..		16:57
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L0cutus	http://usb.brando.com.hk/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00666	16:57
L0cutus	really small ;-)	16:57
L0cutus	but pretty usable with some training	16:57
mrgreaper	ok the x-terminal is done but i see no new apps?	16:57
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: write bluetooth-applet	16:58
mrgreaper	l0cutus i get awway with my n800 at work as it looks like a phone :) add a keyboard and when i get supervisor visit they may get suss nice though	16:58
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: write bluetooth-applet &	16:58
mrgreaper	i get an error ..	17:00
L0cutus	hehehe	17:00
mrgreaper	cant get session bus: did not recieve reply	17:00
mrgreaper	restart the tablet ? or is that a wndows nly fix lol	17:00
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: /etc/init.d/bluetooth start and try again	17:01
Stskeeps	wel	17:01
mrgreaper	rebooting lol	17:01
Stskeeps	do that and "exit", and the bluetooth-applet &	17:01
Stskeeps	:P	17:01
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thux	Stskeeps: tablet-kdm-autologin is installed	17:02
thux	but still doesn't do autologin	17:02
Stskeeps	thux: hm, and that doesnt work?	17:02
mrgreaper	one other feedback while its booting the keyboard really needs a click or little noise when you tap a go ...just feels wierd with out it lol	17:03
Stskeeps	admittedly i haven't tested keblet after the whole reconfiguration	17:03
thux	ok	17:03
Stskeeps	thux: is it kde3 or kde4?	17:03
Stskeeps	thux: feel free to track down why it doesn't work	17:04
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Stskeeps	thux: http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/main/tablet-kdm-autologin is source of package	17:05
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X-Fade	lcuk: Invitation sent...	17:07
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mrgreaper	bluetooth manager has loaded up	17:07
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mrgreaper	tell me i dont have to do that every tie lol	17:07
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: nah, just once, afaik :P	17:08
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mrgreaper	clicking bluetiith manager seems to do nawt though	17:08
mrgreaper	having a bad keyboard day lol	17:09
mrgreaper	found how to get preferences up	17:09
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Stskeeps	hehe.. it's not easy sadly	17:09
Stskeeps	you start to appreciate all the work nokia has done for os2008 at times	17:10
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crashanddie	iGo stopped making keyboards?	17:11
* Stskeeps tries to compile advanced backlight for deblet.		17:12
crashanddie	mrgreaper, naught	17:12
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I can't fathom why.	17:12
mrgreaper	ok i can connect to th n800 from my phone but i dont see how to connect the n800 to the internet thrugh the phone?	17:13
mrgreaper	crashanddie ?	17:13
GeneralAntilles	They bought ThinkOutside and killed the keyboards a year later.	17:13
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crashanddie	mrgreaper, "seems to do nawt"	17:13
crashanddie	it's naught, or nought	17:13
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: did you hold down the cursor on the icon?	17:13
mrgreaper	ah im dyslexic :)	17:13
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, And absolutely no reference on the website or nothing, quite frustrating, really	17:13
mrgreaper	i have preferences about and sendfile	17:14
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mrgreaper	preferences i set it to visable found it and paired	17:14
mrgreaper	but nothing referencing dun	17:14
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, and it would seem, from Google, that the only product they were known for was the keyboard...	17:14
mrgreaper	my phone is now in bonded devices though	17:15
crashanddie	mrgreaper, dyslexic != lazy	17:15
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, yeah, bizarre.	17:15
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: try my instructions in the post earlier then	17:15
mrgreaper	nope crashand die dyslexic means learning disabled :)	17:15
mrgreaper	which one? the scary forum link you posted?	17:16
Stskeeps	yeah	17:16
Stskeeps	:P	17:16
mrgreaper	gulp	17:16
Stskeeps	i'm not going to lie to you, this isn't the easiest thing in the world	17:16
Stskeeps	:P	17:16
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mrgreaper	really ought to put in knownissues "hard to connect to the internet through a phone" lol	17:17
RST38h	Hurrah! New Pidgin is in!	17:17
mrgreaper	i think tonight i will use joikuspot	17:17
crashanddie	mrgreaper, my definition is closer to the brain having problems with processing graphic symbols, but whatever bloats your goat I guess	17:18
mrgreaper	one last question before i go to have quite sob, where is the software installer ? do i have to call it up from the terminal	17:18
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Stskeeps	mrgreaper: you may be able to install synaptic or alike	17:19
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mrgreaper	ah i think my ubuntu server uses that	17:19
Stskeeps	apt-get is the basic software installer	17:19
Stskeeps	:P	17:19
mrgreaper	but it was pre insalled	17:19
mrgreaper	lol so how do i browse with apt-get?	17:19
johnx	try aptitude for browsing	17:20
crashanddie	mrgreaper, apt-cache search [PKGNAME]	17:20
Stskeeps	http://packages.debian.org/testing/ is good as well	17:20
Stskeeps	we dont have one for deblet itself just yet, but yeah, aptitude	17:20
mrgreaper	ummmm ok.... how do i install synaptic...im guessing its not as ssimple as apt-get install synaptic	17:21
Stskeeps	sure it is	17:21
Stskeeps	:P	17:21
Stskeeps	why wouldn't it be? :P	17:21
mrgreaper	O_o ah ok	17:21
mrgreaper	oh and incase you didnt know what joikuspot is http://www.joikuspot.com/ (not ideal but will allow me to use the net at work tonight as im close to a plug socket lol)	17:22
* Stskeeps wonders why advanced-backlight depends on hildon-control-panel-dev		17:22
* mrgreaper wishes the keyboard would beep when he tapped the screen		17:23
Stskeeps	it would in hildon :P	17:23
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Stskeeps	i hate that cos i use my tablet in lectures so	17:24
* mrgreaper misses hildon and curses the guy that told him this has print support (whole reason for changing)		17:24
Stskeeps	heh	17:24
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mrgreaper	synaptic apears to be installing	17:25
mrgreaper	i couldnt print from the default diablo os	17:25
mrgreaper	somone posted in my thread that deblet has print support so i thought what the hell lets try it lol	17:25
qwerty12	Stskeeps, lol, you have a pocket loox 720 as well?	17:26
Stskeeps	qwerty12: at my work, yeah	17:26
Stskeeps	we have tonnes of gadgets	17:26
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: well it has as much print support as any other linux os..	17:26
qwerty12	Lol, I blew the backlight on mine & it gets really hot in 10 mins >.<. I remember using some form of linux on it	17:27
mrgreaper	problem with synaptic	17:27
mrgreaper	i loaded it its asking me for a pssword and the rest of the screen is inactive including onscreen keyboard	17:27
mrgreaper	think i might just have to reformat the card and go back to os2008 :(	17:29
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qwerty12	For that lol? install gconf-editor, and look around in /apps/gksu. I found a gconf value that stopped it from taking over the entire screen	17:30
RST38h	"A.I.G. executives threw a $440,000 party for themselves a week after the government bailed them out to the tune of $85 billion."	17:30
RST38h	Hehehehe	17:30
qwerty12	in the end I set that and i made it use sudo as backend and set myself as ALL: NOPASSWD	17:30
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mrgreaper	tis a shame, it looks nice too i mean the browser seems much nicer then the inbuilt one i prefer the gui looks really nice	17:30
Stskeeps	mrgreaper: write "synaptic" under su in x-terminal	17:31
mrgreaper	one sec	17:31
mrgreaper	your a genuis	17:31
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mrgreaper	i assume anything in there will work for the tablet (with in reason)	17:32
Stskeeps	no, just insane	17:32
Stskeeps	yeah	17:32
mrgreaper	cool ill play around with it tonight (for as long as i can) no batterie meter makes life interesting lol	17:33
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mrgreaper	right thankyou for your help (i have bookmarked that weblink with all the gibberish ...errr ...i mean script lol)	17:35
mrgreaper	when is the next version of deblet due and do you have to reflash each time like with the nokia one?	17:36
johnx	just a note mrgreaper, stuff you find in synaptic is not guaranteed to work very well. most of it will work to some degree, but you might have to launch it from the terminal in some cases	17:36
mrgreaper	i hate that terminal :(	17:36
Stskeeps	it's powerful and painful	17:36
Stskeeps	:P	17:36
mrgreaper	if i said i wish nokia had gone the windows way would you all end up hating me ?	17:37
GeneralAntilles	Yes	17:37
johnx	nah, we just wouldn't be here working on this	17:37
mrgreaper	i shant say it then lol	17:37
GeneralAntilles	Because it's a non sensical thing to say.	17:37
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johnx	mrgreaper, you might want to look for something running windows mobile in that case	17:37
mrgreaper	im sure ill get the hang of it eventualy	17:38
mrgreaper	to be fair the n800 does exactly ehat i need it to its when i want to do more then i need it starts to let me down	17:38
johnx	it's when you want it to do more that you need to put in a bit of your own time/effort. :)	17:39
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Stskeeps	johnx: windows mobile tends to make people want to hack their devices with linux though	17:39
Stskeeps	.. i'm not sure why though	17:39
lardman	where in the case of windows you could hope someone had already done so and pay them for their code?	17:39
johnx	Stskeeps, because the grass is always greener...	17:39
Stskeeps	johnx: i guess the nokia is kinda interesting cos it's people hacking linux on to a .. linux device	17:40
lardman	johnx: can't be much less green than Windows CE/Mobile/whatever it's called though ;)	17:40
qwerty12	Stskeeps, nah, on my ppc, linux sucked more than wm2003se	17:40
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Stskeeps	qwerty12: you had a pocket loox too or? :P	17:40
mrgreaper	im pretty confident diablet will be better once its more polished (dont get me wrong i like it specialy how easy it is to read the browser and looks like i can add firefox extensions to it (not tried yet)	17:40
lardman	qwerty12: pm stuff?	17:40
qwerty12	Stskeeps, yep	17:40
manyoso	is opera even available for N810 anymore?	17:40
Stskeeps	qwerty12: i was thinking to port deblet ;>	17:40
qwerty12	lardman, ?	17:40
GeneralAntilles	manyoso, it never was.	17:40
lardman	power management	17:40
Stskeeps	diablet? oh, burn	17:41
Stskeeps	:P	17:41
mrgreaper	sorry deblet	17:41
manyoso	GeneralAntilles: does the browser still have the ability to switch engines then?	17:41
mrgreaper	damn dyslexia	17:41
qwerty12	lardman, the interface etc was much more harder to use + it was booted from windows rather than being flashed so after a hard reset, i'd return to a wiped wm2003se	17:41
manyoso	or was that generic feature removed when opera stopped supporting	17:41
GeneralAntilles	manyoso, sure.	17:42
mrgreaper	right im off to kill things before work (in a game of course)	17:42
GeneralAntilles	It's not gonna be fun setting up WebKit to work with EAL, though.	17:42
mrgreaper	thnx again for the help even if i have gone cross eyed on some of it	17:42
lardman	qwerty12: alright	17:42
mrgreaper	bye	17:42
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manyoso	GeneralAntilles: i've compiled a dummy eal, but the browser app is not seeing this engine	17:43
GeneralAntilles	manyoso, I don't know the specifics. I'd try maemo-developers for details.	17:44
GeneralAntilles	Or maybe poke timeless if he's around in here.	17:44
qwerty12	manyoso, play around with the settings. I think the menu to switch engines is hidden in a config file in ~ somewhere and also in gconf. I must add though, that I've never gotten the menu to show up.	17:44
lcuk	x-fade, thanks :) not quite ready for it yet but should be in extras-devel soon enough	17:44
* lcuk kicks crashanddie for screwing with his locations and scripts for packaging :P		17:45
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crashanddie	did I? :-°	17:46
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manyoso	qwerty12: ok	17:46
Stskeeps	advanced-backlight people, you have a bashism in your postinst: if [ "$VERSION" == "18" ]	17:47
Stskeeps	:P	17:47
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zwnj	hi there	17:50
zwnj	is 4.2008.23-14 the latest diablo for n800?	17:50
qwerty12	4.2008.36-5 is	17:51
qwerty12	Update an tablet already running diablo with the application manager	17:51
qwerty12	or use the windows flasher to flash directly to that version	17:51
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, go file a bug about 36-5 and tablets-dev.	17:53
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qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, It's nothing major to me. Though NOLS is :>	17:53
GeneralAntilles	Dooooo iiiiiit.	17:54
qwerty12	Bruv, make me yeh	17:54
* GeneralAntilles equips Banhammer of Coercion +6 :P		17:55
* qwerty12 runs, aiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!		17:56
Sargun_Screen	media player is being evil	17:56
qwerty12	I have an aversion to bugzilla, I've only ever filed one bug in my life (on anything) :P	17:57
Sargun_Screen	qwerty12: filing bugs is for pansies.	17:57
Sargun_Screen	real men hack the code	17:57
johnx	Sargun_Screen, good luck with media player (in terms of hacking the code)	17:58
Sargun_Screen	hehe. its playing all the music I hate	17:58
zwnj	qwerty12: i couldn't find it on tablets-dev.nokia.com . should i look for it in n810 section?	17:58
Sargun_Screen	well, qwerty12 can do it	17:58
qwerty12	zwnj, alas, it's only available to people using the windows flasher :(	17:59
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qwerty12	Sargun_Screen, if only... I'm having trouble reading x86 asm	17:59
qwerty12	I gave up on armasm long before I got a tablet :P	17:59
Sargun_Screen	its ok, you can hack at the machine code ;-P	18:00
Sargun_Screen	we have C, you know?	18:00
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* Sargun_Screen wonders what audio decoder maemo uses		18:00
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zwnj	qwerty12: thanks. so i'm going to get SSU with 4.2008.23-14, and try to upgrade it later.	18:01
GeneralAntilles	jott, ping.	18:02
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slonopotamus	hi everybody	18:07
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* Stskeeps curses hildon packaging		18:11
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slonopotamus	any ideas where to get libxml2-dev 2.6.27.dfsg-1osso4?	18:11
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qwerty12	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/libx/libxml2/	18:12
johnx	Stskeeps, I did that a while ago	18:12
lopz	hola	18:12
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slonopotamus	somehow google could not find that... thanks, qwerty	18:14
qwerty12	np	18:14
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slonopotamus	)))	18:18
slonopotamus	funny quit message	18:18
slonopotamus	2.6.27.dfsg-1.maemo1 is greater than 2.6.27.dfsg-1osso4?	18:18
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slonopotamus	is it possible to apt-get specific package version (not latest)?	18:20
slonopotamus	let's vote for _removing_ 2.6.27.dfsg-1.maemo1 from extras-devel. it doesn't make any sence because conflicts with osso-software-version	18:20
qwerty12	apt-get install something=some.version afaik	18:21
slonopotamus	=?	18:21
X-Fade	slonopotamus: It actually does make sense.	18:21
X-Fade	You use a package from the sdk repo, which is not to be used on the device.	18:21
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X-Fade	You should be using a package which is available for the tablet. In this case the one from extras-devel ;)	18:22
slonopotamus	i can't	18:22
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slonopotamus	bla-bla-maemo1 conflicts with osso-software-version	18:23
slonopotamus	and it is in extras-devel	18:23
slonopotamus	but diablo has bla-bla-osso4	18:23
slonopotamus	which is in diablo/sdk repo	18:23
X-Fade	Yeah, but that is a build depend. Not an install depend.	18:24
slonopotamus	and so what? how i am supposed to install libxml2-dev on tablet?	18:25
X-Fade	Are you building something _on_ the device?	18:26
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qwerty12	The windows flasher is a sly mofo. Instead of downloading to %TEMP%, it downloads to IE's cache folder	18:27
lcuk	X-Fade, dont make it sound like its a bad thing, on device development lets you get a better grasp of your intended target	18:28
lcuk	:P	18:28
mikkov_	if you install libxml2 in scratchbox with "apt-get install libxml2-dev" it will install newer version than in sdk, and resulting binaries will also depend on newer libxml than from official repo?	18:29
X-Fade	lcuk: I was only going to suggest that in that case he'd better go with osso-software-version-unlocked.	18:29
lcuk	and it saves you having to install scratchbox and stuff	18:29
lcuk	agreed on that score x	18:29
X-Fade	mikkov_: Well, that is something we as a community haven't really had a discussion on.	18:29
* lcuk runs back to work anyway		18:29
X-Fade	mikkov_: We might want to setup some ground rules for that ;)	18:30
mikkov_	when some other packages have been "replaced" they have used different name	18:31
Stskeeps	~curse maemo-gtk	18:31
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemo-gtk !	18:31
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Stskeeps	johnx: what could possibly go wrong if i made stock deblet gtk be maemo gtk?	18:34
johnx	hmmm	18:34
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johnx	Stskeeps, a lot of breakage ... potentially?	18:35
Stskeeps	mm	18:36
* Stskeeps really wonders why they didn't do something along the lines of a wrapper for gtk		18:37
johnx	actually, they could have made most of the changes in a gtk theme I think	18:38
Stskeeps	mm	18:38
X-Fade	johnx: But where would one put the tap-and-hold stuff etc ;)	18:38
johnx	X-Fade, as a gtk input module	18:39
johnx	like everyone else in the whole world does	18:39
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johnx	google: gtk-stylus	18:39
Stskeeps	http://live.gnome.org/Maemo/Gtk26Rationales	18:39
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Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet6.png <- please to fear.. (not that it works, i wonder why though.)	18:44
johnx	good deal	18:45
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jott	GeneralAntilles: pong	18:48
jott	Stskeeps: it needs libdsme	18:48
GeneralAntilles	jott, so it's the repository making Application manager not install the xserver and kernel.	18:48
Stskeeps	jott: ah.	18:48
Stskeeps	forgot to wedge that one in	18:49
jott	GeneralAntilles: aaah ok	18:49
GeneralAntilles	Don't think there's any way around it. :\	18:49
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jott	Stskeeps: its dlopened and apparently does not warn you ;)	18:50
jott	GeneralAntilles: any details?	18:50
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Stskeeps	someone should make a open source libdsme.. it's trivial really	18:50
jott	GeneralAntilles: install patched h-a-m first? ;p	18:51
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GeneralAntilles	Well, you can switch the repository compartmentalizing with Red Pill. . . .	18:51
jott	Stskeeps: meh, better push the release of the official one and see what can be used ;)	18:51
GeneralAntilles	Truth be told, it's actually a reasonable idea.	18:52
GeneralAntilles	jott, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2008-October/022791.html	18:52
GeneralAntilles	Details it.	18:52
jott	ah thx	18:52
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Stskeeps	jott: that did the trick, ta	18:53
Stskeeps	rotation works too, but probably better on a rotation enabled kernel	18:53
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GeneralAntilles	jott, yet more incentive to get the community edition going, anyway. ;)	18:53
Stskeeps	jott: does adv-backlight take non-maemo patches? ;)	18:55
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slonopotamus	woops	18:58
slonopotamus	i'm back	18:58
jott	Stskeeps: sure.	18:59
jott	GeneralAntilles: heh yeah.	18:59
slonopotamus	so. i think that bla-bla-maemo1 should be removed from extras.	18:59
slonopotamus	is there any formal procedure for package removal?	19:00
crashanddie	[Off-Topic] Anyone ever bought a car with AutoQuake?	19:01
slonopotamus	voting on -dev or smth?	19:01
jott	slonopotamus: which package?	19:01
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johnx	crashanddie, you're planning to buy a user car, without seeing it, over the internet? what could possibly go wrong?	19:02
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slonopotamus	everybody ignores me :(	19:02
johnx	slonopotamus, or nobody knows the answer	19:03
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johnx	slonopotamus, want me to lie to you?	19:03
slonopotamus	:)	19:03
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, what jott said.	19:03
qwerty12	slonopotamus, send me some ganja and I'll do it for you	19:03
crashanddie	johnx, that's exactly why I'm asking	19:03
crashanddie	johnx, I want input :)	19:03
crashanddie	johnx, cuz the prices are quite attractive	19:04
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I wouldn't.	19:04
GeneralAntilles	Usually you get what you pay for.	19:04
johnx	crashanddie, buying a used car over the internet is a horrible idea. Buy it in person and take a mechanic friend with you or take it to a mechanic you trust	19:04
crashanddie	I'm enough of a mechanic to understand how to advise if a car is worth the money	19:04
johnx	GeneralAntilles, no. usually you get reamed.	19:04
GeneralAntilles	johnx, exactly. ;)	19:04
crashanddie	I wonder if a viewing/test drive is possible	19:04
johnx	crashanddie, if you're any kind of a mechanic at all you must realize everything that can be wrong with a car that can be hidden with pictures and descriptions, that only looking at it and driving it yourself can find	19:06
crashanddie	that's why I ask for input !	19:06
crashanddie	(crashanddie) I wonder if a viewing/test drive is possibl	19:06
johnx	if you can get them to agree to a test drive, then there's no problem	19:07
johnx	if not, then treat it as a car that doesn't drive	19:07
qwerty12	crashanddie, You're asking if people have bought a car from a UK company and in all honesty, I don't see a lot of us from the UK on here	19:07
slonopotamus	jott, libxml2-dev version 2.6.27.dfsg-1.maemo1 is in extras and extras-devel. however it can't be installed on tablet because of conflict with osso-software-version. however, 2.6.27.dfsg-1osso4 can be installed (it matches diablo's libxml2 package) but it is only available in diablo/sdk repo which is not supposed to be used on tablet. this all looks messed up.	19:07
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slonopotamus	i wonder why 2.6.27.dfsg-1.maemo1 exists at all	19:09
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jott	slonopotamus: because you can install osso-software-version-rxXX-unlocked	19:09
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slonopotamus	so i'm not supposed to have libxml2-dev without breaking the lock?	19:10
jott	slonopotamus: -dev packages are not really meant to be installed on the tablet.	19:11
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jott	if you want to do so, you should actually know what you are doing.	19:11
jott	(and that is either install the matching package from the sdk repo or install the -unlocked package and get a more recent version)	19:12
slonopotamus	ok. technically you answered 'yes' :)	19:13
jott	slonopotamus: to which question? :/	19:14
slonopotamus	too many repos...	19:14
jott	huh? no. i just said -dev package are not meant for end-users.	19:14
jott	and developers are supposed to know what they are doing...	19:14
slonopotamus	jott, i'm doing something unsupported :)	19:14
jott	yes. :)	19:15
slonopotamus	jott, you won't tell anyone that i've replaced busybox with coreutils, uh?	19:16
slonopotamus	:)	19:16
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jott	i don't care. just don't complain when you get stucked in a reboot loop ;)	19:16
qwerty12	slonopotamus, I've done it by modifying dpkg status file manually. Kinda sucked when ls -la would segfault :)	19:17
jott	qwerty12: who needs "ls" when one can use readdir :P	19:19
qwerty12	me :P	19:19
qwerty12	I've never come across readdir before :P, only dir and ls from this noob :P	19:19
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crashanddie	johnx, actually, I can view and test drive a vehicle if I want to :P	19:20
jott	qwerty12: it's readdir(3) :>	19:20
johnx	crashanddie, then go for it!	19:20
crashanddie	let's first wait for a job :P	19:20
crashanddie	but hell, a mx-5 with only 7000m for 8g	19:21
qwerty12	crashanddie, Ask if they take IOU's?	19:21
crashanddie	I don't do IOU's	19:21
GeneralAntilles	I hear chick cars are good for picking up chicks. :P	19:21
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: yeah, for girls who want to "convert" you..	19:23
Stskeeps	:P	19:23
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	19:23
johnx	gotta go with crashanddie on the mx5 being a darn nice little car	19:23
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, an angle's an angle. ;)	19:23
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, oh, sure, it's a Z3 without all the fail.	19:23
GeneralAntilles	Still a chick car, though. ;)	19:23
crashanddie	johnx, http://www.autoquake.com/vehicle/inspid=5508	19:24
* johnx rolls his eyes at GeneralAntilles		19:24
GeneralAntilles	I don't make the rules. :D	19:24
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johnx	GeneralAntilles, you just buy into them?	19:25
johnx	I guess that's what I should have expected from a Mac user :P :D	19:25
* GeneralAntilles rolls his eyes at johnx.		19:25
qwerty12	FAIL. You included a full stop	19:25
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Stskeeps	mmm. steak, fries and bernaise sauce. <3 loving being home alone once in a while	19:29
johnx	stop making me hungry. there's no snacks around here :P	19:30
qwerty12	johnx, but you have all that rice :P	19:31
summatusmentis	speaking of food, I need to go grocery shopping sometime	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Nice, the power steering failed on my mom's 2 year old Camry Hybrid.	19:32
johnx	qwerty12, takes like 20min to cook. I'm hungry now	19:32
johnx	GeneralAntilles, power steering is for old people driving sedans... oh wait	19:32
johnx	just get her a bigger steering wheel! problem solved	19:32
qwerty12	johnx, No takeaway outlets? I could get kebab roll, chicken wings from at least 20 places near to where I live :P	19:33
GeneralAntilles	johnx, not on modern cars. :P	19:33
GeneralAntilles	Wide tires, heavy weight. . . .	19:33
johnx	qwerty12, at 1:30AM?	19:33
johnx	GeneralAntilles, it builds character	19:33
qwerty12	johnx, Well, I know the supermarket is open 24 hours, I could probably get something from there and put it in the microwave :P	19:33
GeneralAntilles	johnx, and upper arm muscles, but I'll pass. :P	19:33
johnx	it sucks at parking lot speeds, admittedly	19:34
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johnx	qwerty12, I think I'm out of luck :/	19:34
qwerty12	johnx, No putting your hand inside tv food adverts yet?	19:35
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, what car do you have?	19:36
GeneralAntilles	'04 Camry 2.4L 5-speed	19:37
johnx	qwerty12, I think the newer phones have that, but mine's a year old...	19:37
qwerty12	hehe	19:37
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crashanddie	Ok	19:37
crashanddie	And you have a beard, right?	19:37
GeneralAntilles	Right	19:38
crashanddie	Thank you very much, being beardy and owning a toyota, you are not allowed to call any other car "a girl's car"	19:38
crashanddie	:D	19:38
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure how that's relevant.	19:38
GeneralAntilles	I figure sensible-car driving lumberjacks should be able to call girl's cars girl's cars anyway. :P	19:39
johnx	crashanddie, don't mind him. he's in denial	19:40
* johnx wishes toyota would do something exciting again...		19:40
GeneralAntilles	For serious	19:41
GeneralAntilles	I want that RWD Corolla I keep hearing about.	19:41
johnx	ha	19:41
johnx	people wanted that for 18 years	19:41
johnx	the writing was on the wall when they dropped even the celica	19:41
johnx	it's funny that honda is taking sporty cars seriously and toyota is being boring these days	19:42
GeneralAntilles	They only thing sporty Toyota ships is the Tacoma. <_<	19:42
GeneralAntilles	I want the MR2 back with less suck.	19:43
johnx	I'd actually go for a 1st gen MR-2	19:43
johnx	good gas mileage and lots of fun, or so I hear	19:43
GeneralAntilles	Crazy weight distribution.	19:44
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johnx	looks ok to me	19:45
johnx	only a problem for people who are used to nose-heavy sedans	19:45
GeneralAntilles	My goal is to get an E30 M3 at some point.	19:47
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johnx	wouldn't be bad	19:47
GeneralAntilles	Nope, it would be friggin' fantastic.	19:47
johnx	I really like the second gen supras 82-85	19:47
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glass_	i want a pristine gtv6	19:48
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GeneralAntilles	Mmm, Italian, I'd have to take a Lancia Delta Integrale.	19:49
johnx	GeneralAntilles, hmm...I'd rather have an I6 than a four banger. otherwise the e30 m3 looks nice	19:51
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GeneralAntilles	The E30 is a little more purebred than the E36.	19:51
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GeneralAntilles	It's sad how totally BMW has killed the M3.	19:52
johnx	yeah, e36 looks way too heavy :/	19:53
lardman	cars get bigger, c'est la vie	19:53
GeneralAntilles	E90 is straight up horrifying	19:53
johnx	cars get bigger and I don't have to buy them or like them :)	19:54
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	19:54
GeneralAntilles	I'd also like to go old and big	19:54
GeneralAntilles	1966 Dodge Charger	19:54
lardman	of course :)	19:54
GeneralAntilles	Giant blue electric razor	19:54
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* johnx could never drive a car much over 3,000lbs		19:54
johnx	well, I can, but I wouldn't do it on purpose	19:54
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lardman	hmm, so most stuff is out then?	19:55
lardman	modern stuff that is	19:55
johnx	most mdern stuff, sadly yes	19:55
johnx	doesn't bother me much though	19:55
GeneralAntilles	You can always drive a Lotus. ;)	19:55
johnx	well, it's not all bad then :)	19:56
johnx	or a honda fit, or any of the "yellow tag" cars from Japan	19:56
GeneralAntilles	My uncle has a nice Elise	19:56
GeneralAntilles	unreal car	19:56
johnx	another thing I hate about modern cars: ridiculous plastic engine covers	19:57
GeneralAntilles	Ha	19:57
GeneralAntilles	"No, you can't touch this."	19:57
GeneralAntilles	Bizarre	19:57
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johnx	it's like, I opened the hood for a reason and it wasn't to see a crap-ton of plastic staring at me	19:58
Stskeeps	oh, neat, videos from sessions at maemo summit	19:58
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* Stskeeps watches debian chroot one		19:58
GeneralAntilles	johnx, swap it for carbon fiber. ;)	19:58
johnx	hmm...I don't think that solves the problem	19:58
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GeneralAntilles	Looks cool, though!	19:59
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://linuxuk.org/node/68 <- entertainment :)	20:00
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johnx	I'll watch it later when there's no one to wake up :)	20:01
Stskeeps	qole really needs to learn how to present though	20:01
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* johnx sleeps		20:08
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lardman	qwerty12: re comment about showing off, well that's exactly right :)	20:21
qwerty12	lardman, :P	20:22
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lardman	wide screen and stereo sound for the whole 10s of the average mobile phone mp4 file	20:23
lardman	:)	20:23
qwerty12	Heh, yeah, I remember watching transformers off the 176x220 screen...	20:24
* lcuk lobs bacon at lardman		20:25
Sargun_Screen	I need more RAM	20:26
Sargun_Screen	like 768mb at least	20:26
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lardman	lcuk: mmmmm	20:32
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lcuk	i had a problem the other day, the frying pan was too small for the quantity of bacon which needed cooking	20:37
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GeneralAntilles	Time for a big cast iron griddle.	20:41
Stskeeps	mm, bacon	20:42
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, i was thinking more along the lines of a pig sized conveyor oven, or alternatively one of them kebab meat sookers but with bacon aorund it.	20:43
lcuk	cookers ^	20:43
lcuk	- other typos	20:43
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: how does extras policy look like if there's in-source compiled binaries? like, kernel modules compiled into .ko's and such	20:44
Stskeeps	somewhat that's counterproductive to the whole "being able to recompile the package for new versions if needed"	20:44
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, dunno.	20:44
lardman	oi you lot, no work being done here due to the bacon talk!	20:45
GeneralAntilles	We could talk about steak instead	20:45
* lcuk is hungry and waiting for luke to come back form the chippy :)		20:45
GeneralAntilles	or maybe cake.	20:45
* Stskeeps had a delicious pepper steak, mm.		20:45
lcuk	the cake is a lie	20:45
lcuk	im also planning to implement proper styling in liqbase tonight :) i intend to remove the dull boxen and replace with a hand drawn theme :)	20:46
GeneralAntilles	Hire Khertan!	20:46
lcuk	heh!	20:47
lcuk	i was hoping to hold off until i had got png saving down to a fine art, but it looks like that will take a backburner	20:47
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lcuk	bbl	20:55
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Stskeeps	'lo moontiger	21:00
moontiger	hey Stskeeps i was meaning to ask you ... is using dbus ok for the batt mon?	21:01
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Stskeeps	for asking HAL?	21:01
moontiger	yes	21:01
Stskeeps	yeah, i think that's how most people do it	21:01
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Stskeeps	moontiger: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/hildlet6.png <- we now have backlight applet too ;)	21:02
moontiger	right ... so im writing a dbus client that registers with the battery hal thing and gets updates .... prolly on a timer with sleep() in the loop	21:02
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moontiger	this might take me a little while as im new to this level of system coding on linux but its kinda fun	21:02
Stskeeps	hehe	21:02
\|maddler\|	hey all	21:03
GAN800	Nice backlight. ;)	21:03
moontiger	im off work next week and up in seattle so i can focus more on it there	21:03
Stskeeps	it sure is, but you want to beat your head against a wall once in a while	21:03
pupnik810	moemo	21:03
pupnik810	mooemo	21:03
moontiger	got to get back to my class now ... brb	21:03
Stskeeps	GAN800: yeah, it was easy to port actually.. just had to ignore some dependancies you don't use anyway and remove a maemogtkism	21:03
GAN800	pupnik	21:03
pupnik810	sup ga	21:03
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pupnik810	<- sick, cold, headache	21:04
GAN800	Sleepy Thursday afternoon.	21:04
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solmumaha	evening pupnik810	21:07
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pupnik810	hui solarion	21:08
pupnik810	solmumaha,	21:08
pupnik810	was a nice sol-y day here	21:08
Mace`	is there a maemo pkg for ff or epiphany?	21:09
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Mace`	iceweasel	21:09
Mace`	anything other than microb?	21:09
solmumaha	boss wanted to send me to berlin but i refused after i saw the conference price	21:09
pupnik810	heh	21:10
pupnik810	mace - links	21:10
Mace`	cheaper now that the $ is up	21:10
Mace`	i need java .. for ajax zimbra	21:10
jaska	normal jre on n8x0? ouch	21:11
pupnik810	gtg	21:11
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Mace`	works in deblet ;)	21:16
Stskeeps	Mace`: are you Macer btw? i just wonder :P	21:16
Mace`	yes	21:16
Stskeeps	ah	21:16
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Mace`	Stskeeps- cant you rip the bt phone stuff from maemo?	21:17
Mace`	to set it up for deblet	21:18
Mace`	?	21:18
Stskeeps	Mace`: i try to avoid ripping stuff honestly	21:18
Mace`	;)	21:18
Mace`	but it's so easy in maemo	21:18
Mace`	and such a pain in deblet	21:18
Stskeeps	Mace`: i'm building new network-manager atm	21:19
Stskeeps	the svn	21:19
Stskeeps	it has PPP	21:19
Stskeeps	so that helps	21:19
GAN800	Maemo is far and away the easiest OS I've ever tethered with.	21:19
Stskeeps	and i agree, that is one thing they got really right	21:19
GAN800	Easier than OS X	21:19
crashanddie	not easier than say... Debian	21:19
Stskeeps	crashanddie: trust me, maemo is easier :P	21:20
crashanddie	optimised != easy	21:20
GAN800	Um	21:20
GAN800	How is it not easy?	21:20
crashanddie	I didn't say it wasn't easy	21:21
crashanddie	djeezus	21:21
crashanddie	I'm just saying	21:21
GAN800	You tell it your provider and connect.	21:21
GAN800	Saying what?	21:21
* GAN800 isn't clear on that.		21:21
crashanddie	Saying Maemo is easy, well, that's a bit stating the obvious	21:22
Stskeeps	i was a bit disappointed roaming data didn't work while i was in ireland though, but that might be because of vodafone craziness	21:22
crashanddie	But it's no different in easiness than say, Debian	21:22
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Stskeeps	'lo qole	21:30
Stskeeps	qole: sorry for asking you to come by, the thread would become way too long :)	21:30
qole	I have the folder...	21:35
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Stskeeps	alright, mv away the debian folder for now (we'll use it in a minute), and rename the root folder to easy-debian-<version>	21:36
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lardman	hi qole	21:37
qole	lardman: hi!	21:38
Stskeeps	qole: and make sure you have apt-get'ed dpkg-dev dh-make	21:38
Stskeeps	(assuming you're doing this in a debian chroot :P)	21:38
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qole	just for everyone else: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24161	21:40
qole	looks like I just needed dh-make	21:43
Stskeeps	alright, now in your easy-debian-<version>, touch Makefile (we'll edit this later), dh_make -c gpl -l your@mail -n -s	21:45
qole	I've deleted the debian folder ... renamed root fldr to easy-debian-0.9-10	21:46
Stskeeps	(see -c options in dh_make --help). the flags select which license to refer to in it, that it's a debian native package (we don't have upstream source), and a single binary (not sure about differences)	21:46
Stskeeps	-e your@mail, sorry	21:47
Stskeeps	that makes a skeleton debian/ folder for you after you confirm	21:47
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Stskeeps	then, edit debian/control, first part is for source package - what is needed to build this package, what section should the packages end up in, etc, second part is info about the built package	21:49
qole	dhmake: 'Extra parameters on command line'	21:49
Stskeeps	yeah, dh_make -c gpl -e your@mail -n -s	21:50
Stskeeps	made a typo	21:50
* lardman looks at building a DSP kernel		21:50
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Stskeeps	qole: and you can probably pull most of this info from your old control, but do note you shouldn't put in Version: for instance	21:51
qole	one weirdness: "Maintainer name : root"	21:52
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Stskeeps	yeah, it gets your gecos i guess	21:52
qole	why no version?	21:53
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Stskeeps	because it gets generated automatically by the build system, based on latest entry in debian/changelog	21:53
Stskeeps	(which is another chapter, but the 'dch' script is nice there)	21:54
qole	what's with all the .ex files?	21:54
Stskeeps	example files, we'll rm .ex .EX in the end	21:54
Stskeeps	you can do export DEBFULLNAME="Full Name" seemingily (root question)	21:55
qole	so I can dump my preinst etc back into debian/ now?	21:55
Stskeeps	yeah, dump in preinst, postrm, postinst, prerm again	21:55
Stskeeps	make sure they're +x obviously	21:56
Stskeeps	verify debian/copyright is to your liking as well	21:58
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Stskeeps	then this: http://rafb.net/p/daDiLH76.html should suffice as a Makefile	22:01
Stskeeps	(the indentation -must- be a tab)	22:02
qole	hacking away at debian/control... merging my one with the autogenerated one...	22:03
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mikkov_	are you making binary only debs for extras?	22:08
qole	I have a big binary blob in my control, 'Maemo-Icon-26:'	22:08
mikkov_	yeah, but binary only programs?	22:09
mikkov_	which are opensource	22:09
qole	mikkov_: yes, although most is shell scripts, etc, there is no source for binary bits	22:09
mikkov_	point of the buildable source packages is that you can actually build them.	22:10
qole	(not my code, but donated to the project)	22:10
mikkov_	and you are required to provide source code according to gpl	22:10
* rm_you pokes qole		22:11
rm_you	good to see you on IRC	22:11
rm_you	now to run off	22:11
* rm_you runs off		22:11
mikkov_	shell scripts of cource are the code themselves	22:11
* lardman is impressed that building a DSP kernel just works (TM)		22:12
derf	I still haven't gotten it to "Just Work (TM)".	22:12
qole	the support binaries are either tiny bits of donated code (Bundyo's hostwin app)...	22:13
derf	Though I still haven't spent much time with it... but my LCA talk was accepted, so the motivation is there now.	22:13
qole	...or bits of other OSS packages that I intend to make into 'depends' once I successfully get this to upload.	22:14
qole	but I should see if Bundyo will give me the source for his app... which opens a window then runs a shell script...	22:16
mikkov_	I would get clarification of the license and the source if it's open source. Even if it is very simple program	22:17
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* qole waves at rm_you		22:17
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* rm_you waves as he goes flying by in the other direction, off to work		22:17
milhouse	maemo.org offline or just dog-arse slow?	22:23
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lardman	derf: what are you trying to get to work? The DSP code?	22:26
lardman	yes, from reading your next comment	22:27
derf	Yeah.	22:27
* lardman goes to pull the latest version		22:28
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lardman	derf: any error in particular?	22:29
derf	No, still just sorting through what to do with the toolchain.	22:29
lardman	ah, ok	22:29
lardman	you stick it in /opt/ti_dsptools/ ?	22:30
derf	Yeah.	22:30
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lardman	should just work then if you use the Makefile I posted	22:30
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ssvb	hi lardman, any progress with DSP crusade?	22:34
lardman	ssvb: yes, I was just going to email you :)	22:35
lardman	I've just compiled the kernel, was grabbing info to write hw codec driver for the 770	22:35
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lardman	not sure if that would be of use in your quest to make the 770 a decent multimedia machine, but thought it might be interesting/useful	22:36
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derf	lardman: Err, I can't seem to find that Makefile.	22:38
lardman	derf: hang on a tick, let me find an url	22:38
lardman	ah, I didn't post it, sorry	22:38
derf	Heh, that would be why.	22:38
derf	Also, you mentioned having to make some code mods?	22:38
Stskeeps	qole: how's it going?	22:39
lardman	yeah, I think the only thing I altered was testcelt.c	22:40
ssvb	lardman: still running audio driver on ARM side is probably the best solution from the technical point of view, and it is much more realistic to achieve	22:40
lardman	trying to remember myself	22:40
henrique	the .desktop file spec has changed in diablo?	22:40
henrique	os is it the same as in previous version of maemo?	22:40
derf	Okay.	22:40
derf	Because I know there are some fixes that need to go into the real meat of the codec.	22:41
lardman	ssvb: yes, certainly, I just thought I'd take a look - especially as there are nearly complete drivers available anyway for the aic23	22:41
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lardman	derf: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/CELT/dsp/	22:41
lardman	I get a failure in float_cast.h, #warning is unknown (l97 & 98)	22:45
lardman	I am slightly concerned with using floats on the DSP too, not sure how fast it will be	22:45
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Stskeeps	lardman: so, just curious, what's your goals with this and the 770? open source dsp codecs or?	22:46
lardman	Stskeeps: always open source codecs, but just something interesting to do too	22:46
Stskeeps	nod	22:47
lardman	derf: entdec.c has multiple "shift count is too large" warnings	22:47
lardman	derf: cwrs.c : truncation warnings from integer conversion	22:48
derf	Lines?	22:48
whodat	is it common the on n810 for the screen to wobble on its track a bit when the keyboard is in open position? kind of annoying to me.	22:48
Stskeeps	lardman: it's interesting for sure.. especially with nokia seemingily trying their hardest to forget they existed in terms of software ;)	22:48
lardman	entdec.c: 32,40,41,69,77,78	22:48
derf	16 should really not be too large for a 32-bit type.	22:48
lardman	Stskeeps: they inherited the code, not much they could do about it	22:48
lardman	derf: that casts the output, or the array type?	22:49
derf	Array indexing has higher precedence than casts.	22:50
lardman	I'm just looking for the definition of the structure	22:51
derf	((ec_uint32)(_b->ptr[2]))<<16 is the equivalent fully-parenthesized version.	22:51
lardman	ah, well this is an odd compiler... :)	22:51
derf	Operator precedence is a pretty fundamental thing for a compiler to get wrong.	22:52
lardman	yeah well, didn't fix it anyway	22:52
derf	I'm more worried that celt_uint32_t is not being defined correctly.	22:52
lardman	yep, that's my next to-look-at	22:53
troyh	ls	22:53
troyh	doah, wrong window...	22:54
derf	lardman: Did you define HAVE_CONFIG_H ?	22:55
lardman	no	22:55
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lardman	just CONFIG_H	22:55
derf	Yeah, that could be part of the problem.	22:55
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lardman	ok, will try again	22:56
derf	I mean, you define CONFIG_H _in_ config.h	22:56
lardman	yes	22:56
cyrus__	anyone here install deblet on n810. i have a quick question regarding the partitioning of the memory card. Do I just need to make one primary partition? Does it need to be set bootable and what filesystem should I put on it?	22:56
derf	But without HAVE_CONFIG_H, it won't even include config.h	22:56
lardman	ah, I see	22:56
lardman	where shall I define that then?	22:56
lardman	testcelt.c?	22:56
lardman	Makefile	22:57
derf	Makefile	22:57
derf	It's needed for every .c file.	22:57
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lardman	hmm	22:59
lardman	so shall I pass it as a -D flag to the compiler?	22:59
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lardman	ah, yes	23:00
woglinde	hi	23:01
derf	Yeah.	23:01
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lardman	"fixed_c5x.h", line 38: fatal error: could not open source file "dsplib.h"	23:03
lardman	Heroes beckons, will take a look afterwards	23:04
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derf	lardman\|tv: I assume that is referring to http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/spru422i/spru422i.pdf	23:24
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crashanddie	Was House last night or the night before?	23:30
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Stskeeps	cyndis: make a tiny fat partition (16m?), one ext2/3 and one for swap (128mb-192m)	23:44
Stskeeps	cyndis: is how i usually do it	23:44
Stskeeps	and no, bootable has no meaning on tablet	23:45
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lardman	derf: does your code use dsplib fns?	23:57
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GNUton	hi there	23:57
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derf	lardman: Yes.	23:58
lardman	right-ho	23:58
derf	At least, it certainly does if you #define ENABLE_TI_DSPLIB, which you do.	23:58
lardman	yep	23:58
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lardman	hmm, rubbish Windows, file is named Dsplib.h	23:59

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