IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-09-03

bmidgleylardman: community meeting is now?00:03
qwerty12-N800bmidgley: I think it's finished now00:04
lardmanbmidgley: just finished I think00:04
*** __t has joined #maemo00:04
guentheryes, just finished00:04
lardmanSomeone's got a log though00:04
bmidgleylardman reminder said 21:00 UTC?00:06
bmidgleylardman anyway, good to see you on the list, you've got my vote :)00:06
guentherIt's 01:00 UTC by now. :)00:06
guentherbmidgley: Did the offset the wrong way round? ;)00:07
guenthererr, no, wait00:07
bmidgleyguenther, I used "TZ=UTC date"00:07
guenther21:00 is not UTC00:07
guenther19:00 UTC it started00:07
guentheroh, that reminder... On the community list by Dave?00:08
bmidgleyah, announcement by Dave was off00:08
guentherHe silently assumed his local time when talking about 21:0000:08
bmidgleyI finally thought I would make one! heh00:08
lardmancheers bmidgley, I must talk to you about how to merge in DSP stuff to bluez00:09
bmidgleylardman it depends... how do you build it?00:10
lardmanthe arm-side stuff more than the dsp-side I was thinking00:10
lardmanno rush though00:10
*** __t1 has joined #maemo00:11
bmidgleyis it git hosted yet?00:11
lardmanon Garage, dsp-sbc00:11
LinuxCode21 is utc00:11
*** __t has quit IRC00:12
LinuxCodecurrently is BST/GMT+1 22:1200:12
*** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC00:13
bmidgleylardman: you're still waiting on some details to route from the dsp, right?00:14
*** atlas95 has quit IRC00:18
*** [1]baaba has joined #maemo00:20
*** baaba has quit IRC00:20
*** [1]baaba is now known as baaba00:20
*** fab has quit IRC00:23
Pebbysigh, still can't compile this sucker... error: selected processor does not support `pld [lr,#32]` - websearching says it has something to do with some ARM related things, but I can't figure out how to get around it (or remember how I got around it last time) =/00:23
*** patoh has quit IRC00:24
*** patoh has joined #maemo00:24
*** vivijim has joined #maemo00:26
RST38hyou should select correct cpu architecture00:26
lardmanbmidgley: how do you mean route?00:26
lardmanbmidgley: the DSP task works fine, I'm not sure whether there's even a DSP-side driver for the BT hardware, assuming it's possible00:27
RST38hpld supported starting with arm5e00:27
bmidgleylardman: I saw your request for dsp programming details on the ask-nokia page00:28
bmidgleythe question is still out there I guess00:28
lardmanbmidgley: ah yes, that's for the EAP headers, which will allow output via the audio codec00:29
*** crashanddie has quit IRC00:29
PebbyRST38h: export CFLAGS="-march=arm5e" && make still fails =(00:29
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo00:29
lardmanbmidgley: I'm cracking on with the DSP-based tremor and mad-based mp3 decoders now, and hope to be able to keep everything on the DSP OpenMAX-style00:29
*** dneary has joined #maemo00:30
derflardman: Want to tackle DSP-based CELT?00:30
lardmanderf: not at the moment thanks!00:30
derfI think it already has code for a couple of DSP's.00:30
derfNot sure what would need to be modified to get it to run on the OMAP.00:31
lardmanI'm happy to help, but don't want to have to go it alone00:31
RST38hPebby: prolly need some other flags00:31
lardmanI've got lots on at the moment, and it will just get pushed to the wayside like tremor has until now00:31
derfWell, we'll see if my LCA talk gets accepted... would be neat to show a demo of it running on the NIT.00:31
lardmanat least with sbc I was motivated to get my headset working, I don't even use ogg, so not too motivated (except by the thought of OpenMAX goodness)00:32
PebbyRST38h: Any good way of figuring out what flags I need? Aside from asking here/somewhere repeatedly? ;) What sucks is I swear I had it working a while ago, then sbox crashed, heh00:33
joshin_Can anyone recommend a webkit based browser for maemo?00:33
lardmanderf: do you have a link to describe CELT?00:33
*** joshin_ is now known as joshin00:33
lardmanPebby: what's that instruction do?00:33
*** Khertan has quit IRC00:33
*** Khertan has joined #maemo00:34
crashanddiePoor man's visualisation system: Take a jack-RCA cable, plug right RCA into TV audio input, left RCA into TV video input. Done00:34
Pebbylardman: Wish I could tell you... I'm just a very unknowledgeable person trying to compile someone else's code (which compiles fine on x86)00:34
qwerty12-N800if it's x86 asm, wouldn't it need to be modified for arm asm?00:35
lardman-mcpu=arm1136j-s is the correct mcpu string for the N8x000:36
derfThat's not x86-asm.00:36
Pebbyit's not that, though, qwerty12-N80000:36
lardmanbear in mind that scratchbox can't execute some of the instructions which that produces though00:36
qwerty12-N800Ah, ok, I misread. Thanks.00:36
lardmanqwerty12-N800: no, I had the same thought00:37
Pebbylardman: adding that to cflags has no effect... augh, I can't believe I didn't document what I did to get this working last week. Stupid memory =P00:37
Pebbyit definitely seems like it's something unsupported by arm5e and later, as lardman said, but I can't understand why it doesn't seem to be compiling for -march=arm5e (or the other arm5's i tried)00:40
lardmanPebby: no idea then, is PLD a real instruction on the ARM?00:40
RST38hPLD is a preload-data hint00:40
lardmanah ok00:40
RST38hI have no freaking idea why Pebby needs it, really...00:41
RST38hBut ARM5e should support it just fine, as long as you provide right compile time options00:41
RST38hlemme quickly check the options available00:41
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo00:41
PebbyMe neither, RST, but it certainly seems like it's missing some option I haven't discovered... don't really know where to read up to on the possible options =(00:41
*** chenca has quit IRC00:42
Pebbylardman: from websearching, sure seems like it, just one not supported on early ARMs00:42
RST38haha, you also want -mcpu=00:42
ssvbPebby: that's 'armv5te' and not 'arm5e'00:43
lardmanthese should really be set already in the default toolchain though00:43
Pebbyssvb: tried that as well00:43
lcukthey are00:43
lardmanhi ssvb00:43
ssvbhi lardman00:44
Pebbylardman: that's what I thought... I did a by-the-numbers install of sbox according to nokia's instructions00:44
RST38h-march=armv6j -mcpu=arm1136jfs00:44
lcukthe main non library part of my makefile is -O3 and it runs as quick as a big long specific version00:44
RST38hthat's omap200:44
ssvbRST38: why are you keeping posting incorrect options? ;)00:45
ssvbjust check 'man gcc', everything is there00:45
RST38hssvb: I post what I find online00:45
RST38h-mcpu=arm1136j-s seems to be more correct00:45
lardman-mcpu=arm1136jfs might be -mcpu=arm1136jf-s depending on the version of the toolchain (GCC 3 vs 4)00:45
PebbyWhat's even more baffling is, upon starting sbox, I can't even figure out from where it's getting those settings (used to an /etc/make.conf on gentoo, for example)00:46
lardmanPebby: built into GCC00:46
Pebbylardman: the gcc included with the default nokia install seems to be 3.400:46
timelyxPebby: you're trying to microoptimize?00:47
timelyxif so, why?00:47
Pebbylardman: Ah, so that gcc was made with all the 'correct' options?00:47
lardmanPebby: I can't remember which is which I'm afraid00:47
Pebbytimelyx: No, I'm trying to merely compile a library00:47
lardmanPebby: yes, though the -mcpu is more generic, as qemu was not (and may still not) be able to execute some of the specific instructions for out processor00:47
Pebbytimelyx: however, it will not compile by default00:48
timelyxPebby: you need -O1 or something00:48
Pebbylardman: the question is, what's the right -mcpu ?00:48
timelyxthat's the only real requirement00:48
timelyxw/o optimization, it'll fail00:48
*** eichi has joined #maemo00:48
RST38hqemu is useless anyway00:48
lardmanPebby: try both and see which is not flagged as being rubbish00:48
ssvblardman: you can try to upgrade cpu transparency package and use the most recent version of qemu00:48
timelyx(the toolchain ships w/ a very lame compiler)00:48
lardmanssvb: yep, not been an issue for me yet though00:48
timelyxPebby: if all you want is something that builds, -O1 -g00:48
timelyxand don't do anything beyond that00:49
RST38htimelyx <-- cruel00:49
RST38hbtw, GCC is not supposed to issue PLD, even with -O200:49
timelyxoptimization is a fool's errand00:49
RST38htimelyx: He is having trouble with PLD instruction00:49
RST38hnot supported by the default target cpu00:50
bmidgleylardman I see what you mean about the arm code changes to bluez00:50
Pebbytimelyx: that would not let it compile, since it still thinks pld isn't supported by whatever ARM it thinks it has00:50
bmidgleyare they in shape to push upstream?00:51
lardmanbmidgley: not sure they are in shape :D00:51
ssvbPebby: just make sure that '-mcpu=arm1136jf-s' option is feeded to gcc when compiling the relevant file and everything will be all right00:51
lardmanbmidgley: it's a bit messy, not sure if that would be acceptable00:51
Pebbyssvb: ok, one moment... let me poke around a bit more then try that00:52
bmidgleylardman I can guarantee Marcel won't accept it, but we can start looking it over :)00:52
bmidgleyhe doesn't like anything on the first pass00:52
lardmanbmidgley: I'm happy to maintain it outside, but would be interested to hear comments on how to switch between ARM vs DSP encoding, etc.00:53
ssvbRST38h: PLD might be emitted by the compiler if you use -fprefetch-loop-arrays optimization00:53
ssvbbut PLD is useless on internet tablets00:53
bmidgleylardman is there any reason to prefer the arm codec if the dsp is present?00:53
lardmanand also ideas about how to structure it better, rather than two chunks surrounded by #ifdef #else etc00:53
lardmanbmidgley: it will encode audio and still allow video to be output on the Nokia tablets00:54
lardmanbmidgley: there's apparently some sort of memory contention issue, certainly not CPU load related00:54
bmidgleynot a trivial decision then00:54
lardmanin truth there may be no reason to do it on the DSP until the (mp3) decoder can also be placed there and pass the data over directly00:55
lardmanthat would/should provide even better CPU savings and hopefully avoid the video output problem, not sure how to tie into Bluez mind you, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, etc.00:55
Jaffatimelyx: btw, does TraceMonkey work on ARM; or am I misremembering and it does do native-code JIT?00:56
infobotJaffa meant: timelyx: btw, doesn't TraceMonkey work on ARM; or am I misremembering and it does do native-code JIT?00:56
lardmanprobably as a gstreamer/openmax element, /me needs to do more reading up on that00:56
ssvbbmidgley: DSP eats up 70MHz of ARM core performance due to frequency scaling, so it is not very helpful to offload a job that 70MHz ARM also could do00:56
* timelyx sighs00:57
timelyxthere's some stuff00:57
timelyxbut basically it crashes instantly00:57
timelyxor something00:57
lardmanssvb: but the speeds can be decoupled, and the sbc encoder still runs at the lower DSP speed00:57
Jaffatimelyx: so, not to be expected in the next microb version ;-/00:57
lardmanyet video drops to <1fps00:57
Pebbyssvb: Sorry, I'm still a 'make' newbie.. I put the mcpu CFLAG in and it still definitely wouldn't build, but how do I make sure that 'make' is actually getting that, since I'm not sure how to compile just that file (throws a bunch of errors, etc.)00:59
*** Khertan has quit IRC00:59
*** Khertan has joined #maemo00:59
ssvbPebby: look at the compiler output, see something like '-O2' or whatever other options, open makefile in your favourite editor, add -mcpu=arm1136jf-s to the set of optimization flags01:00
lardmanCFLAGS="blah" make01:00
ssvblardman: that will only work if makefile respects CFLAGS variable01:00
ssvbwe can't completely rely on it01:01
lardmanwe had better also hope it's written in C ;)01:01
*** jeez_ has quit IRC01:01
Pebbyssvb: you're my hero, thanks ;)01:01
PebbyThe makefile just steps on the CFLAGS I try to set, it would appear?01:02
crashanddiebtw, anyone have any info about Java on the NIT ?01:02
*** vivijim has quit IRC01:02
*** dholbert has joined #maemo01:03
PebbyI'll see if I can get the sucker to build... at least I learned something new about Makefiles =P01:03
*** birunko has quit IRC01:04
*** dmes has quit IRC01:05
PebbyStill complains about pld with -mcpu and/or -march, but it's a start ;)01:05
*** mazzen has quit IRC01:05
lardmancheck they were actually used in the gcc command01:05
*** EspeonEefi has joined #maemo01:06
PebbyThey're definitely not being used, and I inserted them into the only two places I could find those commands (O2) showing up01:07
lardmanwhat is it with C and comments, how can I comment out a region which also contains comments?01:07
lardmanPebby: can you pastebin the Makefile?01:07
*** dougt has quit IRC01:07
Pebbylardman: certainly, one minute01:07
ssvblardman: I usually use '#if 0' at start and '#endif' at the end of block01:07
*** dougt has joined #maemo01:08
ssvbthey can be nested01:08
lardmanah, I see01:08
ToyKeeperIs there any way to turn off the row used for the space bar in the onscreen keyboard?01:08
ToyKeeperI'm trying to make a fitaly layout, and that row is completely unnecessary...  uses space the regular alpha area should be using instead.01:08
RST38hHow low has it fallen!01:09
crashanddieX-Fade, when the hell are you coming baaaaaack? We neeeeeeeeeeed uuuuu01:10
RST38hgotta make a human sacrifice01:11
andre__crashanddie, september 8th :-)01:11
*** dneary has quit IRC01:12
*** john_G has quit IRC01:13
Pebbylardman: I'm happy to post the makefile, but there appear to be MANY makefiles, hehe... I'm assuming it's failing on one of the nested ones. Shouldn't the makefiles respect my settings in the configure script?01:13
lardmanassuming it's a standard configure script you should be able to do the following though:01:14
lardmanCFLAGS="blah" ./configure01:14
lardmanit has always worked for me at least ;)01:14
PebbyOk, let me try that... I miss gentoo already, hehe01:15
bmidgleylardman, I suspect gstreamer is flexible enough01:15
bmidgleyto tell it to transcode mp3 to sbc and have it use the linked dsp tasks01:15
lardmanbmidgley: something to keep me busy then :)01:15
lardmanah, gstreamer can't keep it all on the DSP though, that's where OpenMAX comes in01:16
bmidgleyI've read about openmax... seemed comparable to gst (superficially)01:16
lardmanyeah, but they seem to coexist, appears to me to be GStreamer for DSPs and the like01:17
*** VDVsx has quit IRC01:18
Pebbylardman: That appears to be working... it definitely got my CFLAGS when I force-fed it like that. Thank you! I wonder how to fix it on a global level, though01:18
*** asedeno has joined #maemo01:19
lardmanthat will propagate the change through all of the Makefiles as it regenerates them01:19
RST38hUmgh...VGBA release...01:19
Pebbylardman: Yeah, I can do that, I just mean for every time I run a configure script, I'm wondering why it doesn't like my export CFLAGS technique. Hmm... ah well, I'll poke around. Thank you for the help, and the others who helped too =) I have a nice shiny .deb now too01:21
*** netx has joined #maemo01:23
GeneralAntillesHowdy the review go?01:23
*** Khertan has quit IRC01:24
*** Khertan has joined #maemo01:24
*** moontiger has quit IRC01:25
* lardman was in and out01:27
lardmanbut mainly out01:27
*** netx has quit IRC01:29
lardmanah, alloca presumably returns zeroed memory01:30
*** danilocesar has quit IRC01:31
*** eichi has quit IRC01:32
*** andrunko has quit IRC01:33
jottanyone actually knows a reason why dialogs under the maemo matchbox themes miss the close/[X] button? is this some weird ui spec thing?01:34
*** ssvb has quit IRC01:34
*** crashanddie is now known as crashanddie_01:34
*** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo01:35
*** crashanddie_ is now known as crashanddie01:35
*** BabelO has quit IRC01:38
*** eichi has joined #maemo01:40
*** lbt has quit IRC01:42
*** Vudentz is now known as Vudentz_AWAY01:45
*** guardian has quit IRC01:46
lardmanhmm, do you think it a bad sign when a pointer is returned such that its address is 1 ?01:46
lardmane.g. malloc returns an address of 101:46
derfYou may have broken it.01:46
*** smackpotato has joined #maemo01:46
lardmanI wonder if that's its roundabout way of telling me it's out of memory?01:47
derfMore likely you wrote out of bounds and clobbered the memory manager's internal structures.01:47
lardmanI just did this: work=(ogg_uint32_t *)_ogg_malloc((s->used_entries*2-2)*sizeof(*work));01:48
derfIt's more about what went on _before_ the malloc call I'd be worried about.01:49
*** etrunko has quit IRC01:49
lardmanwould the effect be immediate?01:49
derfCould show up at any point... might require several more malloc/free calls to become apparent... who knows, really.01:50
derfDebugging memory corruption is hard. This is why x86 has valgrind.01:50
lardmanfair enough, I'll look back through the call stack and see if I can spot anything suspicious01:50
derfAre you just using the standard malloc? I thought you mentioned a custom replacement earlier.01:51
lardmannah, gone back to standard as the omap2420 has more memory than Monty was originally writing for01:51
joshinGeneralAntilles: Did you get your Beagle board yet?01:52
lardmanbut the standard may not be standard01:52
*** netx has joined #maemo01:52
GeneralAntillesjoshin, yeah, a few days ago.01:52
GeneralAntillesHaving serial issues, though, because I'm incompetent. ;)01:52
derfYou could try #defining _ogg_malloc to always allocate twice as much storage and see if it goes away.01:52
GeneralAntillesIn need of a null modem cable at the moment.01:53
derfThat would lend strong credence to the buffer overflow theory.01:53
GeneralAntillesMay run out to Best Buy to get one if they have it.01:53
lardmanok, I'll give that a go tomorrow, thanks01:53
derf(or add some fixed amount, or both)01:53
derfAnd if you fill it with a known value, you might even find where it's happening.01:54
lardmanyeah, not easy to read the memory either unfortunately01:54
joshinGeneralAntilles: RatShack would have better odds.  Or you can just hack a spare serial cable.01:54
GeneralAntillesNo spares. :(01:54
*** setanta has quit IRC01:55
*** cmarcelo has quit IRC01:56
*** sp3000 has quit IRC01:59
*** matt_c has quit IRC02:00
*** EspeonEefi has quit IRC02:02
*** joshin has quit IRC02:03
*** rsalveti has quit IRC02:03
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo02:03
*** MangoFusion has quit IRC02:05
lardmanbmidgley: I've added you02:06
lardmanderf: I'm remembering why I hate tremor ;)02:07
lardmananyway, time for bed, see you all tomorrow02:07
*** lardman has quit IRC02:07
LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, here take mine..02:08
* LinuxCode hands over a null modem cable02:08
*** vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away]02:08
*** rsalveti has quit IRC02:09
bmidgleylardman thx02:09
crashanddiew00t at new mask :)02:11
*** _pcfe_ has quit IRC02:16
*** florian has quit IRC02:16
*** dholbert has quit IRC02:16
*** eichi has quit IRC02:16
mavhccan I get media player to recheck for files?, there's a load that don't exist anymore02:17
GeneralAntillesandre__, thanks for the blogging! :)02:17
RST38h"Holidaymakers' shock after fleeing gun horror to find porn film being made in foyer of their hotel"02:20
glass"oh the horror"02:22
*** herzi has joined #maemo02:22
RST38hthe suffering...02:23
RST38h"A seven-year-old girl with a rare illness is being kept alive by four doses of Viagra a day."02:24
*** svu has quit IRC02:25
*** svu has joined #maemo02:26
*** Khertan has quit IRC02:29
*** Khertan has joined #maemo02:29
andre__GeneralAntilles, heh - you're welcome, needed to share my impressions :)02:29
andre__oh, you even commented.02:32
*** herz1 has quit IRC02:33
*** benh has quit IRC02:42
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC02:42
*** blade_runner has quit IRC02:44
*** smackpotato has left #maemo02:46
*** flavioribeiro has quit IRC02:46
*** texel has quit IRC02:49
*** hellwolf has quit IRC02:49
*** EspeonEefi has joined #maemo02:50
*** hvelarde|stealth has joined #maemo02:51
*** hircus has quit IRC02:54
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo02:57
*** qwerty12-N800 has quit IRC02:57
*** Tu13es has joined #maemo03:03
Tu13esdoes skype do n800->pc with video yet?03:03
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC03:04
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo03:05
*** fnordianslip_ has joined #maemo03:06
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC03:06
*** joshin has joined #maemo03:07
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo03:07
LinuxCodeTu13es, I wish it did03:07
LinuxCodesince amsn is now broken03:07
*** fnordianslip_ has quit IRC03:08
*** hellwolf has quit IRC03:10
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC03:10
*** filp has joined #maemo03:15
*** ljp has quit IRC03:21
*** filp has quit IRC03:23
*** Jianjun has joined #maemo03:27
GeneralAntillesAh, finally, some real response on the changelog issue.03:27
RST38hare they gonna generate changelogs in plain english now?03:30
GeneralAntillesOf course not03:30
GeneralAntillesBut at least there's a bit of discussion going.03:30
*** hvelarde|stealth has left #maemo03:30
*** hvelarde|stealth has joined #maemo03:30
*** uncorq has quit IRC03:31
*** LinuxCode has quit IRC03:36
n800mthis browser aint so cool03:42
n800mi don't care what they say03:42
*** amfilp has joined #maemo03:44
*** hklein_ has joined #maemo03:46
*** hari has quit IRC03:48
*** gregorovius has joined #maemo03:49
*** mgedmin has quit IRC03:50
gregoroviushi... I'm trying to access some iphone formatted sites, specially gmail. I installed a kernel with rotation support, but even then the gmail site only takes up a part of the screen... is this normal? is there any way around it?03:50
*** benh has joined #maemo03:51
guentherhuh, weird03:53
*** amfilp has quit IRC03:53
guenthergregorovius: Kernel with rotation support... Did you rotate the screen?03:53
gregoroviusyes :)03:53
guentherAs far as these specially formatted pages are concerned, I don't know them.03:53
guentherSo, no idea what magic they did.03:54
gregoroviusafter it loads it 'shrinks' to what seems to be the iphone native resolution =/03:54
guentherWhat's missing?03:54
guentherheh, it shrinks...03:54
* guenther gets reminded of an old, great Seinfeld episode03:55
gregoroviuslike a frightened turtle03:55
guenther"Yes, it shrinks. Like a frightened turtle!"03:55
*** lele has quit IRC03:55
guentherexactly :)03:55
guentherWhat do you see as a result?03:55
guentherWhen rotated. Like a really long strip, with blank space at the sides?03:56
GeneralAntillesWell, uh, what do you expect?03:56
GeneralAntillesThey're iPhone formated.03:56
GeneralAntillesMy personal recommendation would be to use the tablet as intended and stick to the regular sites. ;)03:56
guentherof course, yeah, it handles these just fine03:56
guentherI was trying to get a picture of the results. :)03:57
GeneralAntillesWell, iPhone is half the resolution03:57
*** zap has quit IRC03:57
GeneralAntillesSo picture something half the size of the browser window in the browser.03:57
gregoroviusgmail kinda sucks03:57
GeneralAntillesLots and lots of whitespace03:57
gregoroviustoo much hunt-and-pecking03:57
GeneralAntillesThat's what Modest is for.03:57
gregoroviusthe day they add threaded view, i'm sold03:57
gregoroviusin the meanwhile, I can only read my inbox, not mailing lists03:58
GeneralAntillesGmail's got a lot of variants that don't require iPhone stuff.03:58
guentherModest? In context of the browser?03:58
guentherGeneralAntilles: What resolution does the iPhone have?03:58
GeneralAntillesEr, yeah.03:59
guentherIt isn't that much smaller. ;)03:59
GeneralAntillesNo, 155dpi or so03:59
GeneralAntillesversus 225dpi03:59
guentherYeah, that would be even less than half the size of the N8x0.03:59
GeneralAntillesOne of the tablet's big strengths is the awesome screen res.03:59
* guenther nods heavily03:59
GeneralAntillesWhich was even more awesome in 2005 when the 770 came out.04:00
guentherIt's the best screen I have ever seen.04:00
GeneralAntillesWish it had better color, though.04:00
GeneralAntilles16bit sucks04:00
guenthergregorovius: Why do you try to use iphone formatted pages at all?04:00
GeneralAntillesiPhone screen is 3.5" versus 4.1"04:00
GeneralAntillesLighter, smaller, cleaner.04:00
gregoroviuswell, they tend to be nicely formatted for small screens04:01
GeneralAntillesThe iPhone pages would work OK if they weren't mostly hardcoded for the iPhone.04:01
guentherYou do not have a small screen. :)04:01
guentherSo, again, why exactly...? ;)04:01
GeneralAntillesStyluses suck04:01
GeneralAntillesEasier to hit iPhone site widgets with fingers.04:01
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo04:02
GeneralAntillesHowdy, mgedmin.04:02
*** henrique has quit IRC04:02
mgedminhi, General04:03
* GeneralAntilles is out of Chocolate milk. :(04:03
* guenther offers a beer instead04:03
* GeneralAntilles doesn't really drink.04:04
guentherWe need to change that in Berlin. :-)04:04
guentherI agree, US beer sucks. ;)04:04
GeneralAntillesI don't care much for drunk me.04:04
GeneralAntillesIt's not the beverages, it's the alcohol.04:04
* GeneralAntilles tries to open a Jarritos with his Leatherman. . . .04:05
*** Khertan has quit IRC04:05
guentheryeah, like pretty much everyone else says who doesn't drink04:05
*** Khertan has joined #maemo04:05
mgedminnah, beer tastes bad04:06
guentherYou don't have to. More free beer for others.04:06
guentherWhich sometimes is a rare resource. Like with google parties. ;)04:06
* guenther googles Jarritos04:07
GeneralAntillesMexican soda04:07
guentheryup, found that04:08
guentherTastes good?04:08
GeneralAntillesYeah, good stuff.04:08
GeneralAntillesI like Orange and Lime.04:08
guentherNever seen it here.04:08
GeneralAntillesYou don't see it much here.04:08
GeneralAntillesI think the stock at Publix is pretty much only there because of me.04:08
* GeneralAntilles really hates the footer color in Bugzilla.04:09
guentherFunny you might say that...04:09
guentherI pondered adjusting it at least.04:10
GeneralAntillesNeeds to be pushed about 3 steps towards white.04:10
guentherAfter all, the shade of orange in the logo changed.04:10
guentherAnd it has been set to match before...04:10
guentherI find it to be rather intrusive and un-easy on the eyes myself.04:11
GeneralAntillesI like the color, I like the hex code.04:11
Raytrayis that seriously the hex?04:12
GeneralAntillesYeah. :D04:12
GeneralAntillesI need to hit the wiki with a color change, too.04:13
GeneralAntillesThough hopefully there'll be some traction on a new style and layout at the Summit.04:13
GeneralAntilles7 candidates04:14
guentherOne color. JUst one color please. :)04:14
GeneralAntillesA bit of improvement.04:14
gregoroviusI don't particularly like facebook, but its iphone site rocks04:15
* guenther really hates colorful "designs"04:15
Raytraygregorovius, yeah.04:15
*** harryl has joined #maemo04:15
RaytrayGmail's isn't too bad either, though it's shrunken to half width for me randomly.04:15
*** harryl is now known as kcome04:16
GeneralAntillesWell, guenther, this is closer to my preferred styling. ;)04:16
gregoroviusyeah, happens to me too... it seems google hardcoded the iphone's resolution04:16
guentherRaytray: Hah, maybe you got a hint or two for gregorovius. He pretty much entered the channel asking for that. :)04:17
gregoroviusguenther: I've got xchat set to autologin here :P04:17
gregoroviusonly solution I've seen is some guy using privoxy04:17
RaytrayIt used to be fine. :(04:17
RaytrayI don't do much internet on my tablet to care much.04:18
guenthergregorovius: Oh, sorry, I may mis-remember the joining.04:18
RaytrayThough school started again so I might have to.04:18
guentherGeneralAntilles: Dude, that's dark.04:18
GeneralAntillesguenther, liqbase is dark.04:18
Disconnectso its a little premature but has anyone else thought about porting chrome over?04:18
guentherYou'll probably have a hard time fighting for that. ;)04:18
*** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo04:19
RaytrayDisconnect, used chrome yet? -- how is it?04:19
GeneralAntillesOh, no, I'm not thinking dark for maemo.org04:19
GeneralAntillesJust simple04:19
GeneralAntillesCSS-only styling is preferable.04:19
DisconnectRaytray: gave it a quick messing about under virtualbox on a loaded machine - it was slow, but prolly not it's fault :) otherwise it was kinda nice.04:19
guentherah, yes04:19
GeneralAntillesDisconnect, goodluckwiththat04:19
guentherI prefer simple styling myself.04:20
* Disconnect suspects the new js lib will not translate to arm real well04:20
GeneralAntillesI'd really love a lightweight maemo.org04:20
GeneralAntillesCut the cruft04:20
*** flavioribeiro has quit IRC04:20
guentherNothing bad about a fading background, but just don't throw a lot of images at a design.04:20
*** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo04:21
guentherWell, at least with bugzilla, there are not much graphical elements used.04:21
*** flavioribeiro has quit IRC04:21
GeneralAntillesYeah, bugzilla is nice and clean04:21
GeneralAntillesThough the lists seem a little space-inefficient.04:21
*** hircus has joined #maemo04:22
*** Raytray has quit IRC04:22
guentherThe results when searching?04:22
guentherWhat's wrong with them?04:22
GeneralAntillesWell, nothing really major04:23
GeneralAntillesBut it'd be nice to have a little differentiation between different columns.04:23
guentherI don't see them wasting space.04:23
guentherOther than maybe a wrapped summary.04:23
GeneralAntillesOpened/Changed dates could be smaller04:24
GeneralAntillesand off to the right04:24
GeneralAntillesMaybe make the summary and submitter a 2-line deal04:24
GeneralAntillesI dunno. :P04:24
guentherWhat are you talking about?04:24
guentherNo dates. No submitter.04:25
GeneralAntillesThe bug lists04:25
GeneralAntillesI modified my column list04:25
guentherNot in bugzilla search results.04:25
guentherResolved NOTMAEMO04:25
GeneralAntillesIt's a feature of the bugzilla. :P04:25
*** Mousey has quit IRC04:26
GeneralAntillesActually, I think what I want is more like a forum-thread listing. <_<04:26
guentherDude, you said the f-word.04:27
guentherYou won't get a hack out of me if you that lingo. ;)04:27
GeneralAntillesThere's nothing wrong with a well-run forum.04:27
GeneralAntillesI guess it all depends on your experience with them.04:27
GeneralAntillesMine has been pretty overwhelmingly positive.04:27
guentherI guess04:27
GeneralAntillesAnyway, not important04:29
GeneralAntillesI don't feel like investing the brain energy intro trying to think up something useful.04:29
GeneralAntillesI just want Garage templates. :P04:30
guentherWe should talk about that in Berlin.04:30
guentherThere will be plenty of work left at that time. Perfect match to get some details planned.04:31
GeneralAntillesIf only. ;)04:31
GeneralAntillesMaybe a video conference. :P04:31
guentheroh, don't tell me...04:31
guentherDoes my memory play foul trick on me?04:31
GeneralAntillesYeah, not coming. :(04:32
guentherToo bad. :(04:32
*** smackpotato has joined #maemo04:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, I know.04:33
GeneralAntillesNext time.04:33
guentherSomeone please file a showstopper bug, Target Milestone Summit.04:33
guentherNext time. Hopefully in Berlin again.04:34
guentherNice travel. ;)04:34
* GeneralAntilles wants someplace easy to fly to.04:34
GeneralAntilles22 hours flight time04:34
GeneralAntilles2 connections04:34
guentherWhere exactly are you? No direct connection?04:35
*** behdad1 has quit IRC04:35
GeneralAntillesSt. Petersburg or Tallahassee, FL04:35
guentherheh, I did not intend a joke, just asking04:36
guentherCause Berlin isn't exactly a small airport.04:36
guentherOr... 2 of them. ;)04:36
GeneralAntillesYeah, I can't fly direct anywhere.04:36
GeneralAntillesExcept the Caribbean04:36
GeneralAntillesIt was $1600 round trip when I was shopping for tickets, too.04:37
guentherIt's raining out there, and now I am thinking of a nice, warm place...04:37
GeneralAntillesPlenty warm out here.04:37
GeneralAntilles90s today04:37
guenthernot cold here either, something 65 odd04:38
guenther(it's night)04:38
guentherDegree F, mind you, I re-calculated for you.04:39
*** chmac has joined #maemo04:39
GeneralAntillesI can think in one or the other04:39
GeneralAntillesBut I don't convert quickly04:39
guentherEver saw Pulp Fiction?04:39
guentherGreat movie04:39
guentherWe got the metric system.04:39
GeneralAntillesNo kidding04:40
guentherNo double punder. It's a Royal. :-P04:40
GeneralAntillesI love Tarantino04:40
*** baaba has quit IRC04:40
GeneralAntillesThat coked-out dialog is something to behold.04:40
guentherYeah, me too. Well, most of his movies.04:40
GeneralAntilles4 Rooms no good for you, either? :D04:40
guentherwait, you lost me there04:41
guenther"coked out"?04:41
GeneralAntillesThe fast-talk dialog.04:41
GeneralAntillesDeathproof was a lot of that.04:42
* guenther now feels like he lost the ability to understand English04:43
GeneralAntillesWant me to throw more idioms at you? :P04:43
guentherYes, sure. If you explain them... :)04:44
guentherI love to learn new phrases.04:44
guentherOne of the reasons I watched Pulp Fiction over and over again. In English.04:44
guentherIt really teaches something for live.04:44
GeneralAntillesDubed Pulp Fiction04:45
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine that possibly holding up.04:46
guentherIt served a purpose. First, get the big picture.04:46
guentherThen, catch phrases, and understand what they mean.04:46
GeneralAntillesKill Bill's good for that, too.04:47
guentherYou are right though, it's much better with the original sound.04:47
GeneralAntillesDialog is just such a hugely important part of that movie.04:48
guentherLike with most Tarantino movies.04:48
guentherThe uncut scene in the floor... Just great.04:49
guenthers/floor/corridor/  # better?04:49
GeneralAntilles"in the floor" sounds like they're talking somewhere among the insulation and rats. ;)04:50
guentherThere we're back to my problem. Need to look up such words.04:50
GeneralAntillesEver seen The Big Lebowski?04:51
guentherYou know, I don't get to use them often in technical conversations.04:51
guentherbriefly at best04:51
*** moontiger has joined #maemo04:51
GeneralAntillesI like not knowing how to pronounce anything when you only use the terms on the internet.04:52
*** scheng has joined #maemo04:52
GeneralAntillesMmm. See that one04:52
GeneralAntillesone of the Coen brother's best movies04:52
GeneralAntillesThat and Fargo04:52
GeneralAntilles. . . wood chippers :shudder:04:52
guentherThe second reason why I watched stuff un-dubbed.04:52
guentherLike a lot of Seinfeld episodes. OK, all of them. And Frasier, and...04:53
moontigerguys... should i format my external sd card to ext2 or ext3 ?04:53
GeneralAntillesTwo of my favorite sitcoms04:53
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, ext3 has the potential for my writes04:54
GeneralAntillesbut saves you fscking on every slight misstep.04:54
guentherI've been told by US residents, that I do have an US accent. And good pronounciation. :)04:54
moontigermy writes?04:54
*** Khertan has quit IRC04:54
*** Khertan has joined #maemo04:54
moontigerhi khertan :)04:54
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, my spinal cord has far too much say in what I type. ;)04:54
GeneralAntillesguenther, ever watch Cheers?04:55
moontigerso does ext3 slow things down?04:55
GeneralAntillesNah, it'll mostly impact SD card life.04:55
moontigerso ext2 is good enough then?04:56
GeneralAntillesOr could, I haven't seen anything definitive.04:56
GeneralAntillesEh, if you don't mind the fscking04:56
GeneralAntillesI'd probably go with Ext3 considering how cheap SD cards are these days.04:56
guentherGeneralAntilles: Sitcoms: Yes, my favs, too.04:56
moontigerdo i have to do anything special to get the n810 to see an ext3 card?04:56
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, shouldn't.04:57
guentherThough it wasn't particularly easy back those days to understand Frasier, after watching lots of Seinfeld. ;)04:57
GeneralAntillesSame steps as ext2, just ext3.04:57
GeneralAntillesFrasier is funny04:57
guentherCheers? Yes!04:57
moontigercoolio thnx :) and does that mean i can run executables from the card now?04:57
GeneralAntilles(funny peculiar)04:57
guentherMostly dubbed in German.04:57
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, yes.04:57
guentherThat's where Frasier evolved.04:57
GeneralAntillesIt's an odd mix of high-brow comedy for a sitcom.04:57
GeneralAntillesPretty much the only good spinoff sitcom ever made.04:58
guentherheh, probably right04:58
GeneralAntillesHow about any of the "adult" animated shows?04:58
GeneralAntillesFuturama, Family Guy, South Park.04:58
guenthermoontiger: You can run executables off of FAT partitioned cards, too.04:59
GeneralAntillesWith a little screwing around.04:59
guentherJust need to mount it differently.04:59
GeneralAntillesBut FAT sux04:59
guentherLike "all files got executable bit".04:59
guentherSure it sucks. It just say it is possible. :)04:59
moontigerhmmmmmmm no its cool i'll use ext3 but thanks :)04:59
guenthermoontiger: The better choice anyway, if you don't need FAT for compatibility.05:00
moontigerdont use windows05:00
GeneralAntillesI wish there were a half-way decent universal fs.05:00
guentherRecent Linux distros do understand NTFS properly.05:00
GeneralAntillesNTFS still sux05:01
moontigerzfs is the biz apparently05:01
guentherGeneralAntilles: Futurama: Not bad, prefer Simpsons. South Park and Familiy Guy... Well, I watched them occasionally. Didn't do it like I did with Seinfeld, by far...05:01
GeneralAntillesReally, liked Simpsons more than Futurama?05:02
guentheryeah, but it might suffer from the dubbed version...05:02
GeneralAntillesAlmost certainly, actually.05:02
guentherMy first impression was the first Futurama series. Dubbed.05:02
GeneralAntillesThe voices and delivery are really important.05:03
*** user__ has joined #maemo05:03
guentherI have never seen anything that bad before.05:03
guentherI have seen Futurama in English after that. The jokes are just worlds apart.05:03
*** EspeonEefi has quit IRC05:04
GeneralAntillesI love Futurama05:04
GeneralAntillesGot some fantastic quotes.05:04
guentherheh, yeah05:04
*** Khertgan_again has quit IRC05:04
guentherAny chance you ever saw Coupling?05:04
guentherTalking about the UK original.05:05
GeneralAntillesI haven't yet gotten around to picking up foreign TV series.05:05
guentherPretty cool. Takes a while to get used to the UK pronounciation, though. ;)05:05
guentherSome seriously great dialogs.05:06
GeneralAntillesBritish TV is on my list05:07
guentherWith a few episodes, I almost wet my pants laughing.05:07
guentherAnd btw, adult humor. :)05:07
GeneralAntillesIt's funny05:07
GeneralAntillesI grew up watching Seinfeld05:07
GeneralAntillescame back and rewatched them all a year ago05:08
guentherNot the same kind as Futurame. Which is actually for kids. ;)05:08
GeneralAntillesWhole different viewpoint. . . .05:08
GeneralAntillesFuturama is in no way for kids.05:08
guentherHow so?05:08
GeneralAntillesIf Futurama is for kids, then Family Guy is for kids.05:08
GeneralAntillesDon't confuse "animated" with "for kids".05:09
guenthernah, I'm talking content and dialogs here05:09
guentheralso, with COupling in mind05:09
guentherCoupling *really* is not suited for minors. ;-)05:10
guentherbtw, I strongly agree on the POV -- experienced that myself. Just watch some series again after a couple years.05:10
GeneralAntilles"The Contest" takes on whole new meaning.05:11
guentherok, seriously...05:11
* guenther still is laughing05:12
guentherBy "grown up with Seinfeld", what age do you talk about?05:12
GeneralAntillesWhen they were new.05:12
guentherThat's not an age, dude.05:13
GeneralAntillesWell, let's see, I'm almost 21 now.05:13
GeneralAntillesSo, 7-1005:13
guenthergot it05:13
guentherI mean, when I first saw them, I was way past that age. ;)05:13
guentherBut yeah, there's a whole new meaning. :-)05:14
GeneralAntillesIt's a more extreme example of the differences in what you get out of Pixar movies when you're older.05:15
guentherwhat do you mean?05:15
guenther"I'm out."05:15
guenther"You're out..."05:15
guenther"Yeah... I'm out!"05:15
*** herz1 has joined #maemo05:16
guentherLesson learned. Don't watch your attractive neighbor, when you're king of castle.05:16
GeneralAntillesPixar movies have a whole subplot that only means anything to adults.05:16
GeneralAntillesKids miss that layer and just see the pretty animation and funny characters.05:17
guentherI haven't seen them as a kid.05:17
GeneralAntillesBut it adds so much more depth.05:17
GeneralAntillesI guess Toy Story would be the only one I experienced firsthand05:17
guentherLike with the Simpsons.05:17
GeneralAntillesBut you can notice it watching them.05:17
GeneralAntillesA bit05:17
GeneralAntillesThough the Simpsons was banned in my house growing up.05:17
guentherThere's the foreground comedy.05:17
guentherFor kids, and some under-average adults... It's funny.05:18
guentherAnd then there is the hidden meaning, the real jokes.05:18
guentherSomething you only get with some kind of an education...05:18
*** Khertan has quit IRC05:19
*** Khertan has joined #maemo05:19
guentherYou can actually watch a lot of Simpsons episodes like three times, and each time spot a new joke.05:19
GeneralAntillesToo bad it went to shit after season 805:19
GeneralAntillesIt's just painful to watch now.05:19
guentherWhat I love about the Simpsons are the authors.05:20
guentherThere is one episode based on a German movie, that has been seen in US only by some well educated folks.05:20
guentherIt was a sucess US, btw.05:21
guenther"3 stories about Seinfeld", IIRC05:21
guenther"Lola Rennt"05:21
guentherAd of course, the songs,05:21
guentherSee... my... vest, see my vest, made of real gorilla chest...05:22
* guenther sings05:22
guentherThat's just awesome. But you're right, they used to be better.05:23
GeneralAntillesIt needs to die already.05:23
guentherEver seen "behind the actors studios"?05:23
GeneralAntillesInside the Actors Studio05:24
guenthererr, right, most likely :)05:24
GeneralAntillesYeah, every once and a while.05:24
moontigerummmmmm i think i stuffed something up :(05:24
GeneralAntillesLipton cracks me up too much most of the time, though.05:24
moontigerhow do i format my mmc1 sd card?05:24
guentherWith the Simpsons characters. That is great.05:25
infoboti guess boot-sd is
GeneralAntillesSee the partitioning article05:25
GeneralAntilles /dev/mmcblk105:26
moontigerthnx :)05:26
infobotmethinks partitioning is with "Ranish's partitioner" or with Partition Magic - personal edition05:26
infobotrumour has it, partition is You can partition your hard drive by breaking it up into one or more pieces, or "partitions." Partition05:26
GeneralAntilles~flash-partitioning is
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay05:27
*** user__ has quit IRC05:27
*** alextreme has quit IRC05:27
GeneralAntillesBe nice to have a #maemo-only bot.05:28
*** alextreme has joined #maemo05:28
guentherGeneralAntilles: Really had some fun talking to you about series and stuff. :)05:28
GeneralAntillesIdle more, guenther. :P05:28
*** user__ has joined #maemo05:28
guentherShould get some sleep now... Lost track. Already 04:30. :/05:28
GeneralAntillesHave fun with that. :P05:29
guentherYes, I should add this channel to my auto-join list.05:29
*** Pebby has quit IRC05:29
guenthernight folks05:29
*** guenther has quit IRC05:29
moontigerummmmm that doesnt really tell me how to do it05:32
*** herzi has quit IRC05:32
GeneralAntillesWhat are you missing?05:33
* GeneralAntilles is out of lemon juice.05:34
*** uncorq has joined #maemo05:38
*** mgedmin has quit IRC05:41
moontigerok i rebooted and now the n810 can see the files on the disk05:43
*** _freelikegnu is now known as freelikegnu05:43
moontigerbut the permissions are all root / root05:43
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo05:43
moontigerand i just saw that i have an enourmous file on my mmc2 card called .swap05:43
GeneralAntillesThat'd be your swap file.05:44
moontigerits like 13421772805:45
gregoroviusthat's 134 mb05:46
moontigererrrr yah ... not as big as it looked at first :|05:46
moontigerheh sorry05:46
gregoroviusdf -h is your friend05:46
moontigersooooooooooooooooo the permissions on my other card ... owner = user | group = users ?05:47
moontigergregorovius, thank you :)05:47
*** crashanddie has quit IRC05:47
*** hvelarde|stealth has quit IRC05:49
moontigerok all is good ... dfata back and working (i think) and now ext3 :)05:49
moontigeryup ... fbreader can still load up dracula :)05:50
*** Tuco has joined #maemo05:52
*** hvelarde|stealth has joined #maemo06:01
*** AngieQ has joined #maemo06:04
*** __t1 has quit IRC06:04
*** uncorq has quit IRC06:05
*** profoX` has quit IRC06:07
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC06:09
*** uncorq has joined #maemo06:16
*** oilinki3 has joined #maemo06:25
*** harryl has joined #maemo06:33
GAN800The window animations on OS2008 make me laugh.06:33
GAN800They just scream 'Welcome to Mac OS 7'06:33
*** kcome has quit IRC06:33
*** matt_c has joined #maemo06:35
AngieQhmmm, never made that conection06:35
GeneralAntillesDid you ever run OS2007 or earlier?06:41
*** oilinki has quit IRC06:41
*** oilinki3 is now known as oilinki06:45
*** mbuf has joined #maemo06:48
*** secureendpoints has joined #maemo07:00
*** baaba has joined #maemo07:07
*** user__ has quit IRC07:10
*** croppa has quit IRC07:11
* johnx is still confused why there's a minimize button...07:11
*** moontiger has quit IRC07:12
*** croppa has joined #maemo07:13
tank-manyou want to use that space for something else?07:13
johnxwell that'd be nice07:13
johnxthat's at least one more status bar applet07:14
GeneralAntillesWhat's the problem with minimize?07:14
GeneralAntillesSometimes you want to minimize things.07:14
johnxGeneralAntilles, a normal window manager07:14
johnxbut it's redundant in this case07:14
GeneralAntillesNo it's not.07:14
GeneralAntillesIt takes an application out of the window cycle.07:14
GeneralAntillesSo if I have a browser, XChat, and xterm open07:15
GeneralAntillesand I don't want to see XChat for a while.07:15
GeneralAntillesIt may be redundant for YOUR use case07:15
GeneralAntillesBut I use it.07:15
johnxwindow cycle?07:15
johnxas in alt-tab (or equiv)07:15
GeneralAntillesSo, if I close the browser or minimize the browser, it'll show xterm07:16
GeneralAntillesand not XChat.07:16
johnxbut if you wanted to see xchat, why not just click on it?07:16
GeneralAntillesMeh, my fingers aren't always in that spot.07:16
GeneralAntillesOr if I'm closing the browser window07:17
johnxok, I'll revise that. "Largely redundant, but some people like it..."07:17
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo07:22
*** Tuco has quit IRC07:25
*** baaba has quit IRC07:27
*** ljp has joined #maemo07:28
*** oilinki has quit IRC07:32
*** oilinki has joined #maemo07:33
*** oilinki has quit IRC07:34
*** croppa has quit IRC07:35
*** oilinki has joined #maemo07:35
*** dougt has quit IRC07:35
*** dougt has joined #maemo07:35
*** croppa has joined #maemo07:37
*** tbf has joined #maemo07:49
*** minti has joined #maemo07:50
*** atul has joined #maemo07:55
Italodanceare u there?07:56
*** freet15 has joined #maemo07:57
*** eichi has joined #maemo08:01
*** minti has quit IRC08:02
*** gregorovius has quit IRC08:03
*** gregorovius has joined #maemo08:04
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo08:06
*** Pebby has joined #maemo08:10
*** pleemans has joined #maemo08:14
*** minti has joined #maemo08:21
*** matt_c has quit IRC08:23
*** konttori has joined #maemo08:31
*** freelikegnu is now known as _freelikegnu08:33
*** minti has quit IRC08:35
*** konttori has quit IRC08:40
*** croppa has quit IRC08:46
*** Pebby has quit IRC08:49
*** eocanha has joined #maemo08:50
*** croppa has joined #maemo08:52
*** AngieQ has quit IRC08:53
*** borism_ has joined #maemo08:58
*** borism has quit IRC09:04
*** oilinki3 has joined #maemo09:07
*** CptLaptop has joined #maemo09:08
*** skibur has quit IRC09:08
*** Wikier has joined #maemo09:08
*** jpuderer has joined #maemo09:13
*** geaaru has joined #maemo09:17
*** Mousey has joined #maemo09:18
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo09:18
*** geaaru has quit IRC09:21
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC09:22
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo09:23
*** jkyro has quit IRC09:24
*** guardian has joined #maemo09:25
* XTL looks for Octave for diablo09:25
*** simon_ has joined #maemo09:26
*** jkyro has joined #maemo09:30
*** oilinki has quit IRC09:30
*** guardian has quit IRC09:31
*** lindever__ has joined #maemo09:32
*** bef0rd has quit IRC09:32
*** luogni has joined #maemo09:36
XTLMaybe I'll have to get around to installing sbox again09:37
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo09:37
qwerty12Stskeeps: Still need blkid?09:39
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo09:40
gregoroviusjohnx: I agree, I'd rather have space for another applet09:40
*** borism has joined #maemo09:41
XTLCould use a proper calculator :)09:41
gregoroviuscouldn't agree more09:42
gregoroviusthough sliderule is somewhat usable09:42
*** lele has joined #maemo09:42
XTLThat looks interesting09:43
*** borism_ has quit IRC09:48
*** eton_ has quit IRC09:51
*** lbt has joined #maemo09:51
*** Mousey has quit IRC09:54
rm_youso sad i missed the conversation about movies/tv a while back ;P09:58
rm_youlola rennt was good :P09:59
rm_youalso "Coupling" is hilarious09:59
* rm_you sighs09:59
*** dougt has quit IRC10:00
*** zap has joined #maemo10:00
*** murrayc has joined #maemo10:02
*** ab has quit IRC10:07
*** ab has joined #maemo10:08
*** hvelarde|stealth has quit IRC10:09
*** CptLaptop has quit IRC10:12
XTLCoupling was a fun series. The real one, that is.10:12
XTLAlso: Spaced :)10:12
doc|homecoupling > *10:17
*** gregorovius has quit IRC10:17
doc|homeI'm rewatching the entire 4 series for what must be the 4th time?10:18
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo10:19
*** geaaru has joined #maemo10:21
*** fUD has quit IRC10:24
*** BabelO has joined #maemo10:28
*** chmac has quit IRC10:30
*** benh has quit IRC10:30
*** bergie has joined #maemo10:30
*** guardian has joined #maemo10:35
*** ab has quit IRC10:37
*** turbo has joined #maemo10:39
*** briand has quit IRC10:41
*** moontiger has joined #maemo10:41
*** dneary has joined #maemo10:43
*** madhav has joined #maemo10:44
*** mazzen has joined #maemo10:44
*** benh has joined #maemo10:51
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo10:52
Stskeepsqwerty12: could be inteeresting10:55
qwerty12Stskeeps: will compile soon, I'm making busybox 1.00 even more smaller (I want a chroot binary in initfs :D)10:56
Stskeepsqwerty12: goal: "please insert sd card with the partition uuid on ;)10:58
Stskeepslabels might be better10:58
qwerty12yeah, I can imagine people getting confused (including me) :P10:59
ToyKeeperHrrm...  ~/.gtkrc-2.0  and ~/.gtkrc seem to get ignored, and ~/.osso/current-gtk-theme gets overwritten each time I log in.11:04
ToyKeeperAny idea how to force manual gtk config to be used?11:04
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC11:05
*** Wizzard has joined #maemo11:08
*** geaaru has quit IRC11:10
*** lindever__ is now known as eton11:10
moontigerqwerty12, would it be true that an app only shows on the maemo downloads page if it has files on its garage page?11:10
*** geaaru has joined #maemo11:10
Jaffamoontiger: No, that's not true. Anyone can create an entry in downloads.maemo.org11:11
qwerty12moontiger: no, you can add an application to the maemo downloads manually. If you have it in extras[devel], make an install file or else use the option that is there when you are adding an application to link it to your garage deb11:11
moontigerhmmmmmmmmm ok i didnt see that when i used the builder thingy11:12
moontigeri'll look again ... thanks :)11:12
Jaffamoontiger: build thingy?11:15
moontigerthe auto-builder11:16
JaffaRight, there are four things: 1) an autobuilder which takes a source package and puts it in extras-devel; 2) a process which ensures everything in extras(-devel) has a .install file created automatically; 3) which provides project hosting facilities; 4) which provides a web-accessbile set of pages describing applications related to maemo11:17
JaffaAll of these are fairly independent (1 & 2 less so with diablo as the auto-builder is the primary way of uploading stuff to extras)11:17
*** pcfe has joined #maemo11:21
moontigerJaffa, so hmmmmmmm i cant see a way of adding my file to the garage section11:21
Jaffamoontiger: no, you don't want to. You want to add it to If your project isn't hosted at, you can ignore garage entirely.11:24
*** florian has joined #maemo11:24
*** minti has joined #maemo11:24
floriangood morning11:25
moontigerit is hosted at garage but isnt showing up on the downloads page :(11:25
*** guardian has quit IRC11:26
Jaffamoontiger: which downloads page? The one at, or the "Project Files" at
moontigereither :|11:26
*** RichiH has joined #maemo11:27
infobotI herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power11:27
*** guardian has joined #maemo11:27
*** bergie has quit IRC11:27
RichiHinfobot: botsnack11:27
infobotRichiH: :)11:27
RichiHso anyway, i am about to get a new cell phone and i was wondering if there are any infos on a n810 successor with gps & phone functionality11:28
Jaffamoontiger: so, you've uploaded a source package to the auto-builder? Neither of the others will happen automatically. If it's hosted in extras(-devel), there's no point manually adding it to "Project Files" in as your project's homepage should either *be* the entry; OR you have a link to it on your HTML page.11:28
RichiHor any other maemo-based cell phone, that is11:29
Jaffamoontiger: All you have to do is *create* the entry yourself, once you've tested the extras-devel package and promoted it to extras proper.11:29
moontigerJaffa, hmmmmmmmm but i dont have an actual package ... just the 3 files that i uploaded to the auto-builder (its a python app)11:29
JaffaRichiH: There're no rumours of any maemo device with anything other than Bluetooth, WLAN or WiMax connectivity.11:30
Jaffamoontiger: the auto-builder will have built the package11:30
RichiHJaffa: pity :(11:30
*** bergie has joined #maemo11:30
JaffaRichiH: not IMHO, put YMMV11:31
*** eichi has quit IRC11:31
*** hklein_ is now known as MrTuttle11:31
*** VimSi has joined #maemo11:31
moontigerJaffa, how do i get a copy of that package?11:32
mikkov_moontiger: what is your package name?11:32
RichiHJaffa: why not?11:32
Jaffamoontiger: you don't need to get a *copy* of it; the entry just points at the install file created for you in extras11:33
*** vims0r has quit IRC11:33
*** mavhc has quit IRC11:33
RichiHJaffa: as i only have the outsider's view on maemo, i am interested why you, apparently a dev, would say so11:33
moontigerso it hasnt gotten into extras yet then? only still in extras-devel?11:33
moontiger(sorry to be asking a lot of dumb questions)11:34
mikkov_you have to manually protome package to extras11:34
*** Khertan has quit IRC11:34
*** Khertan has joined #maemo11:34
RichiHoh, and a minimally related question, are any nokia employees hanging out in here which i could poke about other nokia phone questions (not too much bugging and not obvious from the intarwebs)11:34
moontigermikkov_, ive done that 3 times now11:34
mikkov_moontiger: what is your package name?11:35
qwerty12RichiH: & . He works at nokia and you can see, 2 models on that a phone radio was never included.#11:36
mikkov_mgcal is in extras11:36
moontigeroooooooooooo really? :)11:36
moontigerso it will show up on downloads at some point and i'll have my 2 minutes of glory?11:37
RichiHqwerty12: thanks11:37
mikkov_you have to add entry to downloads manually11:37
moontigerahhhhhhhhhh do you know how i can do that?11:37
* qwerty12 wishes dpkg-buildpackage -nc would not run configure scripts again >.<11:37
mikkov_go to the downloads page and there is a link11:38
moontigeri can grab the .deb file from that page and add it to my garage too :)11:38
moontigerthank you so much :)11:38
mikkov_extras repo:
*** MangoFusion has joined #maemo11:39
moontigerthank you for all your help mikkov :)11:39
mikkov_just use .install file for ;)11:40
lirimgcal on maemo garage doesn't have a file release though11:40
moontigerim doing it now liri11:40
lirimoontiger: ahh cool :)11:41
lirimoontiger: any screenshots available?11:41
mikkov_you don't even need garage files, when you keep packages in repository11:41
mikkov_but they are nice11:41
moontigeryes liri ... in the garage the homepage link goes to a page i set up for it11:41
lirimikkov_: right but before downloading it, it's nice to see project status (at least it is important to me)11:41
moontigerthere is a screens hot11:41
mikkov_liri: yeah that's a indicator if there is released files ;)11:42
moontigerits no big thing ... just my first lil applet to show google calendar on home screen11:42
lirimikkov_: or if the last release was years ago and then I know the project is dead :)11:43
moontigermore things to do to it but it is useful even now i think11:43
lirimoontiger: maybe you should team up with khertan for a home applet for google contacts and notebooks11:43
moontigerliri ... i was going to attack the notebook thing next11:43
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo11:43
lirimoontiger: awesome, I need it so badly11:44
moontigeri how would it work?11:44
moontigersee notebooks on the home screen?11:44
lirimoontiger: and khertan suites of google apps is just amazingly useful but I guess he's a very busy man so it takes time11:44
lirimoontiger: yeap11:44
moontigerhmmmmmmmmm simple droplist and viewing area?11:44
moontigerhome screen stuff has to be relatively small11:45
lirimoontiger: yep, where it's listing the notebooks and allows to expand the tree (the content of the items itself)11:45
lirimoontiger: I have an idea for you11:45
lirimoontiger: do you have a personalized igoogle home?11:45
moontigerno but i know what it is11:46
moontigerdo they have a notebook applet for that?11:46
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo11:46
lirimoontiger: yeah, exactly what I was about to say11:46
moontigerim looking now11:46
lirimoontiger: so it's pretty small and you can borrow the design11:46
moontigerok liri i'll play with this and see what i can come up with11:47
moontigermight take a week or two tho im afraid as im hella busy with work right now11:48
*** eichi has joined #maemo11:49
moontigeri was also planning to make a time keeping app for people who work by the minute on contracts11:50
moontigeranyways off to bed ... its late ... nn all :)11:51
moontigerand thnx again for the help11:51
*** moontiger has quit IRC11:51
*** florian has left #maemo11:51
*** florian has joined #maemo11:51
*** hap has quit IRC11:55
*** k88 has joined #maemo11:56
k88whats the ifconfig location11:56
mikkov_it is /sbin or /usr/sbin12:00
qwerty12If you are root, it will show up in the path automatically12:00
*** atlas95 has joined #maemo12:02
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC12:03
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo12:04
*** jpuderer has quit IRC12:05
*** Jobe has joined #maemo12:05
*** Jobe has quit IRC12:06
*** fr01 has quit IRC12:11
*** fr01 has joined #maemo12:12
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo12:13
*** baaba has joined #maemo12:18
* qwerty12 adds my N800 to tugs uptime project :D12:22
*** sergio has joined #maemo12:24
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo12:25
*** bilboed-pi has joined #maemo12:27
*** pcfe has quit IRC12:28
*** baaba has quit IRC12:29
RichiHqwerty12: thanks for the links. i see the point of add-ons and the 'do one thing and do it right' argument, but it does not align with the way i sse my tools & gadgets. the 'we do not want to be tied by the much more rigid cell phone rules' _does_ make sense, though12:35
RichiHunfortunately :p12:35
*** Dar has joined #maemo12:38
qwerty12Heh :). For me, I actually like that reasoning :). I mod Sony Ericsson phones and all the sony ericsson phones I've had, the first thing I do is unlock them so I can use them on any network (I bought a £15 cable just to do this for one phone) and debrand it because I hate the awful restrictions operators put on phones. For example. on a W810 I have, they disable the funky animated menus and Orange (the network it was branded to) force you to12:42
qwerty12 use their fugly horrible menu.12:42
*** jpuderer has joined #maemo12:42
*** herz1 has quit IRC12:43
*** mazzen has quit IRC12:45
*** Dar has quit IRC12:47
*** herzi has joined #maemo12:47
*** erstazi has quit IRC13:01
*** erstazi has joined #maemo13:03
*** freet15 has quit IRC13:05
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo13:08
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo13:12
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC13:13
*** guardian has quit IRC13:16
*** guardian has joined #maemo13:18
Jaffaqwerty12: agreed entirely. (Although I have never bothered doing the debranding). Looking at a W890i as my next phone: small, 3G, Bluetooth but can be used as a high-speed modem by my tablet when I have both together. Perfection.13:19
JaffaRichiH: you'd look *dead* stupid with an N810 stuck to your ear.13:20
qwerty12Lol, I used to get looks when I'd have an N-Gage to my ear :D13:20
JaffaQuite rightly ;-)13:22
qwerty12Yeah :)13:23
*** harryl has quit IRC13:25
*** lardman|gone is now known as lardman13:26
*** atul has quit IRC13:26
oilinki3you mean
qwerty12Xomap doesn't play nice with XDMCP enabled :>13:27
qwerty12In the end, it messed up and I got annoyed so I grabbed a screwdriver and smashed it up13:27
*** _marcell_ has joined #maemo13:29
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo13:35
*** andre__ has quit IRC13:35
*** andre__ has joined #maemo13:36
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC13:44
lcukjaffa/lardman which one of you are gonna choose a MILF (gilf?) as a running mate?13:47
* lcuk needs to know to make wisest choice13:48
lcukand whos gonna offer free bacon13:48
XTLmmm.. free bacon13:48
lcukcannot vote on an empty stomach :D13:49
* qwerty12 will be :)13:49
lcukheh, are you old enough to vote :P13:49
qwerty12:P. Hopefully I can in this one :D13:50
qwerty12If not, qwerty18 will be votinh13:50
lardmanJaffa: there's an "email this article" link?13:50
*** atul has joined #maemo13:51
lardmanCan anyone view this?
qwerty12I can13:53
qwerty12Oh wait13:53
lardmando you subscribe?13:53
qwerty12I can't :P13:53
qwerty12No, sorry13:54
lardmanah, ok13:54
qwerty12I thought you meant it wasn't loading for you13:54
lardmannah, trying to show the page to the community list13:54
* qwerty12 <3's mtd-utils13:55
qwerty12lardman: here you go ;)13:55
qwerty12Sorry for the long link but it works13:55
qwerty12Let me tinyurl that13:56
lardmanah, good skills13:56
*** mazzen has joined #maemo13:56
lbtyou evil content stealing scum!!13:56
qwerty12Simple google search quoting the article13:56
qwerty12true :P13:57
aquatixqwerty12 is our 1337 h4xx0r13:57
*** bergie_ has joined #maemo13:57
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo13:58
*** patoh_ has joined #maemo13:58
qwerty12Woo, Darius is back in weird mode13:58
lcukback? did he ever leave it13:59
qwerty12True :P13:59
lcuki was certain his account was taken over by his dog or something13:59
lardmanand now he's back?13:59
korgothhey guys - anyone using the homeip applet and having problems with it?13:59
lcukwitterin about iphone multitouch n770s and stuff13:59
qwerty12lardman: seen his email on iphone?13:59
*** dneary has quit IRC13:59
qwerty12Khertan sent a nice email to him *grin*14:00
* qwerty12 should have put a rick roll instead in that tiny url :P14:00
*** Jianjun has quit IRC14:04
*** BabelO__ has joined #maemo14:04
*** madhav has quit IRC14:05
*** bergie has quit IRC14:11
*** Zic has joined #maemo14:12
*** BabelO__ has quit IRC14:12
XTLMmm.. fortran14:12
*** mopfi has joined #maemo14:12
*** scheng has quit IRC14:14
*** netx has quit IRC14:15
qwerty12"Cremated  Remains Scattering from within a Beautiful Fireworks Display"14:17
*** Mikho has joined #maemo14:19
Mikhoanyone working with Eclipse and CDT, experiencing weird slowdown after working some time?14:20
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC14:20
Mikhothere might be seconds of lag when I write code in the editor before the letters appear ont  the screen14:21
glasssee if the code-indexer is running14:21
glassat least with carbide(eclipse based, symbian c++ too) it's notorious for suckage(cpu and slowness wise)14:22
* XTL adds Mentor to the list of apps that emulate a tiling wm14:22
Mikhohmm, I think the slowdown has appeared only recently14:23
Mikhoafter some patch, maybe14:23
Mikhothe code indexer might indeed be the culprit14:24
glassMikho: you might try to nuke the code indexers files14:24
glassat least with carbide they sometimes needed that..14:24
Mikhohow do I nuke the files?14:25
lcukfrom orbit14:26
lbtis anyone having problems with maemo mapper failing to dl google map aerial photos14:26
lcuklbt, is it a recent problem or is this the first time you've tryied?14:27
lcukhi btw14:27
lbtrecent problem14:27
lbt(since last night)14:27
lcukcould they have changed the url scheme - and does it work still from the actual site14:28
lbtand it worked from a browser14:28
lcuksounds more like server problems than a specific app issue?14:28
lbtuntil I used my tablet14:29
lbtthen the tablet stopped working after a bit14:29
lcuk:D have you been banned from google14:29
lbtthen the browser stopped working14:29
lbtI wonder14:29
*** Anunakin has joined #maemo14:29
lbthave they detected a mass download of maps for an area and banned my IP14:29
*** k88 has quit IRC14:29
lcukgoogle do have that strange little "you are the robot haxx0r" message14:29
KnirchI managed to get that once at work, was fun14:30
AnunakinHey have access to google chrome sources?14:30
AnunakinAny have access to google chrome sources?14:30
lbtit may be that mm needs to be a bit more subtle...14:30
*** eXeonical has quit IRC14:31
*** eXeonical has joined #maemo14:31
*** eichi has quit IRC14:32
*** k88 has joined #maemo14:32
*** lcuk has quit IRC14:33
*** lcuk has joined #maemo14:33
kulveAnunakin: is this it ?14:33
lcukhmmmmmmm xchat just locked up and stopped me from typing - perhaps its related to google lockout14:33
lcukkulve, i read somewhere it was14:33
lbtif you ever exchanged an IP addy with them they have a worldwide license to use it you know14:34
*** Tu13es has left #maemo14:35
lcuklbt? is that in relation to chrome source availability?14:35
*** eXeonical has quit IRC14:35
*** eXeonical has joined #maemo14:35
lbtnah - just pi$$ taking after readig /. this morning14:35
lcuk:D i dont like new slashdot14:36
lcukdefault comments come up too restrictive and only show first 25, ive gotta keep logged in to get comments as i liked14:36
lbtnot sure I ever bothered to login14:37
lbtbbl - work calls...14:37
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo14:38
*** andrewfblack has joined #maemo14:41
*** Zic has quit IRC14:42
*** MoRpHeUz has joined #maemo14:42
florianhi andrewfblack14:44
*** Zic has joined #maemo14:47
*** Dar has joined #maemo14:47
*** dneary has joined #maemo14:54
florianhi dneary14:57
dnearylardman: ping?14:59
*** geaaru has quit IRC15:04
*** atul has quit IRC15:07
*** MrTuttle has quit IRC15:08
*** MrTuttle has joined #maemo15:09
*** caio1982 has joined #maemo15:10
*** dforsyth has quit IRC15:11
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo15:12
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo15:17
*** behdad has joined #maemo15:17
*** setanta has joined #maemo15:17
*** uncorq has quit IRC15:20
*** CptLaptop has joined #maemo15:22
Jaffalo dneary15:23
*** atlas95_ has joined #maemo15:25
*** johnx|Zaurus has joined #maemo15:25
*** johnx|Zaurus has quit IRC15:29
*** cmarcelo has joined #maemo15:31
*** geaaru has joined #maemo15:33
*** jeward has joined #maemo15:36
jewardCan claws do yenc?15:37
*** matt_c has joined #maemo15:41
*** atlas95 has quit IRC15:42
*** blade_runner has joined #maemo15:43
AnunakinI have made, some packages for maemo: NSP2 (MathLab like), REminiscence (flashback game), newRAW (Out of This World game) e Geany 0.14 (dev/IDE)15:43
*** smackpotato has left #maemo15:43
*** atul has joined #maemo15:46
*** vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes15:47
mikkov_if you feel that they are useful for people, you should upload them to extras15:47
*** benh has quit IRC15:49
jewardNo one has ported tcl to maemo?15:49
aquatixthat'd be a killer feature :)15:51
jumpulait should be more or less compilable from debian sources15:52
mikkov_have you tried compiling debian tcl packages?15:52
*** lbt has quit IRC15:52
jumpulanot a recent one, no15:53
jewardLooks like there is a package.., not ready for end users.15:53
jewardI'm searching, but thistalks about the n770?15:55
jewardSo it must be old.15:55
*** t_s_o has quit IRC15:55
bergie_firing the election keys to people... expect email :-)15:56
mikkov_tcl support is probably only matter of compiling debian's tcl package15:56
jewardI have yet to set up sandbox.15:57
mikkov_there's a reason ;)15:57
jewardHow hard is it to do on OS X?15:58
mikkov_probably too hard unless vmware runs with OS X15:59
jewardLook like there was/is an n800 distribution...15:59
mikkov_i could try compiling it today16:00
mikkov_but no promises ;)16:00
jewardI found a port for OS2007.16:00
*** matt_c has quit IRC16:02
jeward)S2007 packages probably won't work on OS2008?16:03
*** Wikier has quit IRC16:03
jewardOS2007 I meant.16:03
Anunakinmikkov_: I think ... better do more tunning to soft before up to extras... for now I put all deb on my repo...16:03
AnunakinI using tcl/tk on my diablo16:04
AnunakinaMSN works nice16:04
AnunakinxMaxima works too.16:04
atullardman:= Maemo support curl. Can I get more documentation regarding same.16:04
mikkov_Anunakin: you can still use extras-devel. Makes it much easier for people find and use sofware16:06
jewardAnunakin: do you remember where you got tcl/tk?16:06
mikkov_good example seems to be this tcl/tk hunt ;)16:06
jewardI found a package for chinook.16:07
jewardWill that work for diablo?16:07
mikkov_should work16:07
jewardSays the only problem is no fullscreen.16:08
jewardSO far I just need tclsh, so it should work fine for my purposes.16:08
jewardAnyone here tried openbox?16:08
*** _marcell_ has quit IRC16:09
jewardWouldn't it solve the whole fullscreen problem?16:09
*** l33t has joined #Maemo16:10
Anunakin jeward: Wait ... I got it from ITT16:11
jewardAnunakin: Is it hildonized?16:11
jewardHow do I find it on ITT?16:12
*** Free_maN has quit IRC16:12
Anunakin jeward: aMSN is not hildonized... for hildonize it we need patch tcl/tk ...  but for me it is OK... better then nothing16:13
jewardYeah, I don't really need hilodnization either.16:14
jewardIs this where you got it?
AnunakinBut I just use pidgin... more fast, more easy... less RAm...16:14
*** gentooer has joined #maemo16:16
AnunakinAhh!! WebCAM works well with amsn on Maemo chinook and diablo16:16
*** andrunko has joined #maemo16:17
jewardAh, red pill mode... is that dangerous?  :)16:17
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo16:18
AnunakinI not us it16:19
AnunakinI log as root and install with apt-get or dpkg16:19
jewardIt says to use the maemo Plain Tcl/TK 8.4 package, so it must work on diablo?16:19
Anunakinbecause updates for maemo... is more secury ... using blue pill mode16:20
AnunakinI using tcl/tk here16:21
Anunakinon diablo16:21
*** Vudentz_AWAY is now known as Vudentz16:21
jewardAnunakin: From ?16:22
*** rsalveti has quit IRC16:23
*** guardian has quit IRC16:23
Anunakinis this tcl8.4_8.4.16-4_armel.deb ?16:23
jewardNot sure.16:24
*** guardian has joined #maemo16:24
AnunakinThis project on garage ... is broken?16:24
jewardI don't know, I haven't tried it.16:24
jewardI'm trying to find the best tcl/tk for diablo.16:25
*** mopfi has quit IRC16:25
AnunakinI downloaded packages from another repo... not on garage...16:25
Anunakinbut I have a huge list here16:25
AnunakinHow I can see what is the repo for a package with apt/dpkg ?16:26
jewardI don't think you can?16:27
Anunakinjeward: aMSN on maemo is a nice ... option... I have the packge here...16:27
jewardMaybe in the logs?16:27
jewardAnd the chinook package works on diablo?16:27
Anunakinwhere is this logs... my fav distro is Gentoo... I a recent (because maemo) ubuntu user16:28
Anunakinjeward: Many chinook packs works on diablo...16:28
jewardI see your repo in my applications manager!16:28
AnunakinI using Bora e some Mistral ... packages too on my diablo16:29
yacoobjeward, yeah, he's this guy from the internets!16:29
*** Khertan has quit IRC16:29
*** Khertan has joined #maemo16:29
AnunakinOK...I booting from SD card16:30
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo16:31
Anunakinbut, debian apps not works... you need recompile... because debian arm project uses very early packs16:31
lardmandneary: pong16:33
*** oilinki has joined #maemo16:33
dnearyhi lardman16:34
*** MiskaX has quit IRC16:34
dnearyI was happy to see you be a candidate for the council16:34
lardmanthought I should do my bit :)16:34
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo16:36
murraycIs there a list of candidates so far?16:37
*** birunko has joined #maemo16:37
*** MiskaX has joined #maemo16:37
lardmanmurrayc: the list is closed now16:38
murraycAnyway, where is the list?16:39
* lardman just looks for a link to the ml, hang on16:39
*** patoh has quit IRC16:39
*** patoh_ has quit IRC16:39
*** patoh_ has joined #maemo16:40
*** patoh has joined #maemo16:40
*** atlas95__ has joined #maemo16:41
Anunakinjeward: All packages and deps for aMSN on OS2008 are here:
*** atlas95_ has quit IRC16:41
murrayclardman: Thanks. I don't check maemo-developers every day.16:41
jewardAnunakin: I'm lookin at them righ now.16:41
*** atlas95__ has quit IRC16:42
lardmanmurrayc: np16:42
Anunakinfor WINKs works at aMSN you need install cabextract and gnash (or swfdec), I dont recomend you todo it... can consumes all you RAM and CPU and crash you system...16:43
jewardAnunakin: Do you install from applications manager by pointing it to that address?16:43
*** netx has joined #maemo16:44
Anunakinfirst .. you must "become root"16:44
jewardAnunakin: I have that address loaded in the web browser, but it doesn't download the packages?16:44
jewardOkay, one sec.16:44
Anunakinand use dpkg -i package_name.deb16:44
jewardOh wait, it is downloading one now.16:44
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo16:45
*** atul has quit IRC16:45
Anunakindl ... tcl, tk, libsnack, tcltls and amsn packages16:48
jewardIn progress, thanks!16:49
*** etrunko has joined #maemo16:50
*** oilinki3 has quit IRC16:50
*** ptman has joined #maemo16:52
ptmanso I got this mail about a maemo community council vote16:52
ptmanwhere can I find information on the candidates?16:52
timelessjaffa: not exactly the fastest web server i've met today16:54
*** harryl has joined #maemo16:54
ptmanJaffa: thank you! this helpfulness will be noted =)16:55
timelesswait, there ar e7 candidates? and how many seats?16:55
Jaffaptman: heh ;-)16:55
Jaffatimeless: 516:55
JaffaOr 3 if there are fewer than 5 candidates (not an issue this time, fortunately)16:55
timelesswhat, there was a requirement to have at least 1 loser?16:56
*** l33t has left #Maemo16:56
Jaffatimeless: no, an odd number of council members16:56
timelessso 2 candidates = 1 board member? :)16:57
*** nemo has quit IRC16:58
lardmanand board members are not allowed to abstain in any vote? ;D16:58
Jaffatimeless: fewer than 3 means the election is suspended16:58
timelessbtw, can i complain about the template?16:59
timelessthere should be an hr between each candidate or something16:59
timelessit's too hard for me to find them16:59
timelessalternatively, you could stagger them17:00
timelessusing a 3 column table17:00
timelesscandidate 1 sits in row 1 cell 1 colspan 217:00
timelesscandidate 2 has an empty row 2 cell 1 and sits in row 2 cell 2 colspan 217:00
timelesscandidate 3 like 1, 4 like 217:01
lardmantimeless: are you talking about the candidate info page?17:01
lardmanhmm, horizontal bars by all means, no need to get too technical though17:01
timelesswhichever, i'm not picky, anything will do17:02
*** nemo has joined #maemo17:02
lardmannext time round we may have loads of nominations, then we'd have to do some more creative/useful displays17:02
timelessit might also be nice to stick a :hover around candidates17:02
*** tjafk2 has joined #maemo17:03
timelessso if i :hover over a candidate, you give the candidate a border, or a background17:03
timeless(top is above name, left is left of name, bottom is above next name, right is to the right of modifications text17:03
jewardAnunakin: tcl works great, thanks!17:04
Jaffatimeless: it's w iki... ;-)17:04
lardmanthough it should probably be locked while the voting takes place....17:04
*** Sho_ has quit IRC17:04
Jaffabergie_ / dneary: would've been good to have had a link to the council election candidates page either in the email or the web page. Surprised when I saw neither.17:05
* Jaffa is now wondering whether to vote for himself or someone better ;-)17:05
bergie_Jaffa: good point17:05
bergie_next time :-)17:05
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC17:05
*** Sargun has quit IRC17:05
*** matt_c has joined #maemo17:05
*** bef0rd has quit IRC17:07
*** jeward has quit IRC17:07
dnearyJaffa: Indeed - that has been mentioned to me by reply also17:08
JaffaIt's *almost* worth a follow-up email, or can the website be changed to include it before too many votes are cast?17:10
*** vivijim has joined #maemo17:10
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo17:12
*** madhav has joined #maemo17:13
oilinkiwhere are all the pretty ladies in the candidate list?17:13
*** jpuderer has quit IRC17:13
oilinkithat would make woting more easy :)17:13
aquatixoilinki: submit yourself?17:13
oilinkiaquatix: uh.. I'm not pretty and I'm definately not a lady :)17:14
oilinkiis jamie male or famale name btw?17:14
*** jpuderer has joined #maemo17:15
*** bergie_ has quit IRC17:15
oilinkiI think I'll go for GeneralAntilles as seen him talking here quite a lot17:15
Stskeepswhere's the election candidates page again?17:17
Stskeepsscroll up :P17:17
Stskeepsif i could vote (think i got a couple of days wrong on registration), it'd be either lardman or GA, even though GA can be a bit of an ass at times, he knows his stuff and is active in community :P17:19
aquatixwell, a leader should be a dictator now and then :)17:19
aquatixnothing bad with being an ass now and then imho17:19
oilinkiStskeeps: might be a good thing to be an ass sometimes.. to let the point be shown :)17:19
aquatixyeah, what oilinki says :)17:20
aquatixcan we vote somewhere?17:20
*** tjafk1 has quit IRC17:20
oilinkibut then again. the person should also hear what other community members say.. and get the idea forward17:20
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo17:20
aquatixwell, if he's being an ass to nokia, getting his point across... that'll only help us :)17:21
Stskeepsif qwerty12 was candidating, he'd be my vote ;)17:21
aquatixwas thinking about that too17:21
aquatixdifficult to choose17:21
qwerty12Stskeeps: lol, I'm not a community person anyway but thanks :)17:22
oilinkihuuh. but now there is a something wrong with GA. Interest: Documentation   ;)17:23
*** mazzen has quit IRC17:23
aquatixoilinki: well, documentation is good too17:23
aquatixquite underrated :)17:23
RichiHJaffa: tbh, i would not care how stupid it looks :)17:23
qwerty12"Please, try not to exclude the community even more from Nokia's development process, and please stop degrading Nokia's image in the community. It's bad enough as-is." - I love that line :)17:24
oilinkiaquatix: yes and needed, but if someone say he's interest is documentation, well that's scary :)17:24
RichiH(it being 'holding a n820 to my ear')17:24
aquatixoilinki: scary, true, but a keeper :)17:25
* aquatix likes scary people17:25
oilinkiI'm just joking naturally.17:25
*** SDuensin has joined #Maemo17:25
aquatixoilinki: aww, so he's not scary?17:25
aquatixtoo bad17:25
*** n800m has quit IRC17:27
oilinkiI think documentation should be done promtly, but then again.. there is so many other things to do.. like cleaning the house or so :)17:27
*** minti has quit IRC17:27
*** pleemans has quit IRC17:28
oilinkibut back to the business. is there any estimates how many units of 770, n800 and n810 has been sold?17:28
Stskeepsgood question.. there's 19.000 members on ITT, if you can use that as a guide :P17:29
qwerty12But there are also *tons* of guests too :/17:30
lcukthe question becomes: do most people who buy a device get involved in the community17:30
lcukguests are folks like me who use it without bein logged in17:30
aquatixoilinki: hm, cleaning the house > documentation?17:30
aquatixStskeeps: wtf, 19.000?17:31
*** Jaffa changes topic to "Voting open: | | logs at"17:31
aquatixdidn't know there where that many17:31
Stskeepsaquatix: 18.179 it says on the bottom17:31
oilinkithat's quite a lot of registered users17:32
aquatixah :)17:32
lcukand 18170 of them are generalantilles - he keeps forgetting his password17:32
aquatixfixed that for you ;)17:32
* aquatix hides17:32
lcuki wonder if the servers would meltdown if we had a mass surge with everyone logging on17:34
qwerty12lcuk: Itt's already slowing down :/17:34
lcukthats cos of the silly huge images17:34
crashanddieYeah, I don't know which idiot did the design for ITT17:35
crashanddieBut for a forum that's aimed at Tablet users17:35
crashanddieHe sure did love images17:35
Stskeepsi default to mobile II on my tablet, and n810 on my pc :P17:35
qwerty12You know what pisses me off? Look at the image of the N810 on top, the front page is obviously a classic theme >.<17:35
crashanddiewho here is on linkedin, btw?17:36
crashanddieI joined yesterday17:37
floriansome more I guess :)17:37
crashanddiesome HR guy told me it might be quite interesting, if I were to join a social network, linkedin should be the one17:37
Stskeepsmm, it hasn't paid off for me just yet17:38
*** chenca has joined #maemo17:38
qwerty12Will it do the washing up for me?17:38
Stskeepsfacebook is more fun from knowing what the heck your childhood friends are doing now, and to point and laugh at the pretty girls who got good grades, are now flippin' burgers17:38
*** k88 has quit IRC17:39
*** gentooer has quit IRC17:39
oilinkicrashanddie: your company HR guy told to join linkedin?17:40
crashanddieoilinki, not my company HR17:40
crashanddie<-- currently unemployed17:40
crashanddiebut a friend HR17:40
oilinkicrashanddie: ok. Normally the HR people do not encourage people to join linkedin as they are afraid that other companies get too much information from there. well that was at least  the case some time ago.17:42
*** sjgadsby has joined #maemo17:42
*** c0d3h4ck_ has joined #maemo17:42
qwerty12~lart *nix for being uptight about permissions and being case sensitive17:43
* infobot whacks *nix with a giant beaver's tail for being uptight about permissions and being case sensitive17:43
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC17:43
*** c0d3h4ck_ has quit IRC17:43
*** c0d3h4ck_Home has joined #maemo17:43
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo17:43
lcukcrashanddie, i hope they decide to setup a council :D17:44
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo17:44
*** geaaru has quit IRC17:44
aquatixcrashanddie: i am on linkedin17:45
aquatixnot that anybody cares ;)17:45
*** Wizzard has quit IRC17:45
andrewfblackcrashanddie the idiot that designed it runs it lol, I did the minimal version that runs good on tablet17:45
qwerty12Will this work to make a static binary?17:46
qwerty12LDFLAGS=" -static" CFLAGS=" -static" ./configure --enable-static --disable-shared17:47
Stskeepsought to17:47
andrewfblackok stupid question where do we vote at?17:47
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC17:47
aquatixandrewfblack: just world domination17:47
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo17:47
qwerty12andrewfblack: - you should have an email with your password17:47
* qwerty12 would like to know how my DIABLO_INITFS target got trashed :>17:48
aquatixqwerty12: who gets to vote?17:49
qwerty12aquatix: I think anyone who is registered at I got an email, lemme check it again17:49
aquatixmaybe i should create an itt account17:49
andrewfblackI get to vote twice17:49
qwerty12aquatix: itt account not needed :)17:49
* aquatix didn't create accounts till recently17:49
*** eocanha has quit IRC17:50
aquatixjust yesterday i got myself a maemo account17:50
qwerty12aquatix: "As a member of the Maemo community, you are elligible to vote17:50
qwerty12in this election."17:50
*** balrog-k1n has quit IRC17:50
aquatixmeh, clearly registered too late17:50
qwerty12Just out of question, will new registrations be disabled? Otherwise, I see fixed votes :>17:50
andrewfblackhow many people are going to be on the council?17:50
Stskeepsyou have to be 3 months on maemo.org17:51
* aquatix remembers to register sooner17:51
aquatixgenerally i only register when i want to post too17:51
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo17:51
andrewfblackaquatix you can have one of my votes just tell me who you want17:52
aquatixandrewfblack: you're voting now?17:52
lardmanandrewfblack: lol17:52
lardmanandrewfblack: postal votes perchance? ;)17:52
* qwerty12 karma is only 72 :D. Not high but at least I'm not thoughtfix :D17:52
andrewfblacknot yet but I have 2 account :)17:53
*** balrog-kun has joined #maemo17:53
aquatixthough choice though17:53
aquatixi think they all should go on the council :)17:53
*** skibur has joined #maemo17:53
*** MangoFusion has quit IRC17:54
andrewfblackwell there are only 7 running how many members will there be 6 lol17:54
* qwerty12 announces who I voted for through the massive speakers in my pimped up hummer with 40in rims17:54
aquatixqwerty12: you... have a fscking hummer?17:55
qwerty12aquatix: lol, I wish17:55
aquatixno, you don't ;)17:55
andrewfblack: Voted17:55
qwerty12aquatix: I thought the sarcasm was obvious :D17:55
*** bilboed-pi is now known as bilboed17:55
andrewfblackI got a hummer once17:55
aquatixqwerty12: my sensors are a bit blunt this late in the afternoon17:56
qwerty12lol, I hear with gas prices, people with hummers are getting fscked :P17:56
aquatixand rightly so17:56
andrewfblackok who wants to buy my other vote?17:56
*** bilboed is now known as bilboed-pi17:57
* aquatix doesn't like cars that take up at least 2 parking spaces, for example17:57
aquatixandrewfblack: me me me!17:57
qwerty12lol, I once saw a hummer parked outside my school in London. California license plates17:57
* aquatix ctcp's a crate of $favBeverage17:57
qwerty12I was in Manchester around 5 weeks ago, they had a car show in the trafford centre with hummers17:58
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the number from an @nokia was something in the 300-600k range last August17:59
GeneralAntillesThat would've been for the 770 and N800.17:59
GeneralAntillesoilinki, "Documentation" is largely :)17:59
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: In the profile page, what is discussion about? I have 4 points from there and I have no idea how I got them :P18:00
GeneralAntillesmailing list18:00
qwerty12Ah, I see, thanks18:00
andrewfblackwhats the address for profile page on again18:01
lardmanI saw a stretched Hummer limo last week18:02
GeneralAntillesThose are all over the place here.18:02
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: A rarity in the UK :D18:02
GeneralAntillesIncredibly dangerous pieces of garbage.18:02
andrewfblackthanks forgot the /view/ part18:02
lardmanthnkfully, with all the corners they need to drive around18:02
aquatixhummers etc are just Not Done here in the NL18:03
aquatixway too large18:03
aquatixbesides, i can't help but thinking those people are compensating something18:03
*** yerga has joined #maemo18:03
qwerty12aquatix: don't worry, we still believe you are a man18:04
*** mardi8101 has joined #maemo18:04
GeneralAntillesEspecially driving an H2/H318:04
GeneralAntillesThe H1 isn't so bad, at least it's justified as a fairly awesome "go everywhere" vehicle.18:04
GeneralAntillesThe other two are just glorified SUVs.18:04
aquatixqwerty12: well, according to my `compensating' theory and considering my car, i sure am ;)18:05
GeneralAntillesdneary, ping18:05
lardmanI think the 10mpg would put people off here :)18:05
aquatixlardman: heh, yeah18:05
GeneralAntillesIf you need it, there's not much better at the job, though.18:05
aquatixa little while ago, a Hummer overtook me on the highway18:05
aquatixi could here the sloshing of the gassoline ;)18:05
GeneralAntillesBut not exactly a commuter vehicle. ;)18:05
andrewfblackI wonder why i havn't goten my vote email on my second account yet its older then the other account18:05
aquatixGeneralAntilles: oh, fair enough18:06
aquatixbut i live in a country with solely commuters :)18:06
*** hrw is now known as hrw|gone18:06
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Pong18:06
dneary10mpg? Serious?18:07
dnearyThat's 10 gallons for 100 miles, let me converst that to litres per 100km18:07
GeneralAntillesdneary, so I've got some ideas floating around in my head for the cleanup.18:08
qwerty12Seriously. They really don't do much. And with gas prices...18:08
lardmanthat's a guess, but can't be too far off18:08
dneary6.3 gallons per 100km18:08
dnearyOr 22.1 l/100km18:08
*** guardian has quit IRC18:08
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Cool!18:08
GeneralAntillesIt's a ~6.5L diesel V8 pushing a ~10000lbs vehicle18:09
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I'll be a bit busy for a minute - feel free to spout, I'll catch up when I get back18:09
*** guardian has joined #maemo18:09
qwerty12Stskeeps: knock yourself out. I removed the text that results from the -h option, don't think you will need it ;P
andrewfblackBTW any of you theme makers out there I got an email for Urho Konttori last night he has added support in Theme Maker to change Icons for you when you install theme.  He is going to release an update in the next few days.18:09
lardman(don't forget that the US uses a small gallon)18:10
andrewfblackI can finally have put an internet explorer icon in my Windows Theme lol18:10
qwerty12boo andrewfblack18:10
andrewfblacklol but thank you qwerty12 for showing me how to do it by hand18:10
lardmangot to go, see you all later on18:10
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gone18:10
qwerty12lol no probs, I think konttori will implement it better than my dirty hacks :)18:11
*** zap has quit IRC18:11
qwerty12~lart regexp. I only speak wildcards.18:12
* infobot beats regexp. I only speak wildcards. into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy18:12
*** mardi8101 has left #maemo18:12
aquatixGeneralAntilles: seeing a military hummer on the highway would be more interesting i guess :)18:13
Stskeepsqwerty12: ta, i'll do something cool with it eventually :P18:13
andrewfblackI havn't seen it yet but I'm excited I have several themes I've been working on but havn't release yet.  I got away for the OS based themes and started working on some movie based ones that just have modified colors and a few images placed to make it look cool.  Putting finishing touches on my Xmen now.18:13
qwerty12aquatix: Yer, they are on their way to De Wallen18:14
qwerty12Stskeeps: lol18:14
aquatixqwerty12: lol18:14
aquatixqwerty12: well, good luck parking there ;)18:14
qwerty12aquatix: i'll dump it in the canal, it's worth the price for going there! :P18:14
* aquatix is getting a tad tired pointing drunk brits to the red light district when in amsterdam18:15
qwerty12aquatix: point them to the canal18:15
aquatixmyeah, but isn't that manslaughter or something? :)18:15
aquatixgood riddance though :P18:16
aquatixoh crap, gotta go18:16
*** fr01 has left #maemo18:17
*** tbf has quit IRC18:17
*** tekojo has joined #maemo18:19
*** yerga has quit IRC18:20
*** matt_c has quit IRC18:21
*** trickie has quit IRC18:21
*** mbuf has quit IRC18:21
*** mardi8101 has joined #maemo18:22
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC18:28
GeneralAntillesaquatix, you see them all the time here.18:29
*** Anunakin has quit IRC18:30
crashanddieto clarify that statement, GA lives next to the UAHSF (US Army Hummer Storage Facility)18:31
GeneralAntillesWell, I do live fairly close to CentCom for most of the summer.18:31
GeneralAntillesBut they've always got convoys moving about the state on the highways.18:31
*** dougt has joined #maemo18:31
*** jpuderer has quit IRC18:32
* GeneralAntilles facepalms
GeneralAntillesHoly hell18:37
GeneralAntillesMy order is arriving today.18:37
*** MrTuttle is now known as hari18:37
qwerty12I'm intrigued by this "In particular, it warns that Maemo makes use of a root account, but has a trivial default password" - I know the passworded are not shadowed (I enabled shadowing manually on this tablet) so anyone know a good unix password cracker (I crack windows passwords usually :))18:37
qwerty12Heh, GeneralAntilles, how is the beagle?18:39
qwerty12well, the diablo password is still rootme. the reason you cant sudo with it is because of the ttyusb0 init script fucking things up by directly modifying /etc/password to disable the account18:41
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo18:41
*** c0d3h4ck_Home has left #maemo18:42
*** harryl has quit IRC18:43
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, waiting on a null modem cable.18:50
*** andrewfblack has quit IRC18:50
qwerty12Ah, right. :)18:50
GeneralAntillesOK, qwerty12, I've got an opportunity for you.18:50
GeneralAntillesA good way to stick it to Nokia.18:50
GeneralAntillesSo I think you'll be interested18:50
GeneralAntillesHave you been following -community?18:50
* qwerty12 is only subscribed to -developers, -users & commits18:51
*** murrayc has quit IRC18:52
qwerty12WTF IS UP WITH GPARTED? I unmount one partition on my SD card, the other mounts >.<18:52
GeneralAntillesActually, that's not relevant18:52
GeneralAntillesthe thread is in -developers.18:53
GeneralAntillesSo, uh, my changelog thread?18:53
GeneralAntillesQuim mentioned wanting a list of projects which have good changelog practices and ones that don't.18:53
GeneralAntillesI want to get that list compiled.18:53
GeneralAntillesand figured you might just be interested in helping (at least pick out the bad ones)18:53
GeneralAntillesSo, I'm thinking of using free's scripts to pull changelogs for ever package listed in the page on the wiki18:54
qwerty12Ah, ok, sounds ok. I thought you wanted me to send an email saying that people who make bad changelogs are wankers.18:54
*** fr01 has joined #maemo18:54
yacoobqwerty12, someone made a see-saw out of your partitions!18:54
GeneralAntillesthen running through them all by project and grading pass/fail18:54
qwerty12yacoob: lol18:54
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Sounds ok18:54
yacoobas a experiment, I've added all 60+ repos to my tablet's apt-get list18:56
yacoobupdates take... time. A significant amoutn of it. :)18:56
GeneralAntillesResults: way too many repos sucks ass.18:56
qwerty12is parted any good on the tablet btw? if so, I'll try and shove it in -devel18:57
qwerty12(I just ran parted help on the computer and I liked what I saw better then sfdisk)18:57
*** matt_c has joined #maemo18:58
GeneralAntillesStskeeps has got a deb somewhere.18:58
qwerty12Ta, I'll be reinstalling debian so I'll probably come across it soon.18:59
*** Khertan has quit IRC18:59
qwerty12Stskeeps: did you fix locales v gtk theme?18:59
*** Khertan has joined #maemo18:59
*** jpuderer has joined #maemo19:00
*** cyndis has quit IRC19:02
*** harryl has joined #maemo19:03
Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah. re-export LC_ALL :P19:03
qwerty12Stskeeps: lol, cool19:04
qwerty12I'm just waiting for parted on the desktop to work it's magic, i'm resizing to make the ext2 partition 3gb19:05
qwerty12Just out of question, if I install to a partition, are the chroot scripts still available to me?19:05
*** gentooer has joined #maemo19:05
*** hircus has quit IRC19:05
*** zap has joined #maemo19:06
yacoobhm, is there any hint on when next maemo version is going to be available?19:06
GeneralAntillesQ4 2008-Q1 200919:07
GeneralAntillesThere'll likely be more info available after the Summit.19:07
ptmanisn't there going to be a it with a gsm chip q1, so that would also fit in the schedule19:08
GeneralAntillesDear god I hope not.19:09
GeneralAntillesYou're probably thinking of the WiMAX N810.19:09
*** cyndis has joined #maemo19:10
ptmanno, I don't think so19:10
GeneralAntillesThen you're pulling information out of your ass. :)19:10
ptmanI think I read a press release about it some months ago19:10
GeneralAntillesThat was a fake.19:11
* qwerty12 really can't understand the requests for a tablet with a phone19:11
ptmanit was vague, but wimax n810 was already announced19:11
ptmanoh =(19:11
GeneralAntillesSome idiot decided what he wanted on an "N900" which had nothing at all to do with Maemo.19:11
ptmanI thought I read a press release by nokia, but I can't remember19:11
GeneralAntilles^ that idiocy19:11
*** booiiing has quit IRC19:12
ptmanthat's not the one, but I can't find it in my bookmarks either19:12
*** Gatestone has joined #maemo19:12
*** luogni has quit IRC19:12
lcukit sounds like the phone thingy i mentioned and got derided for the other day19:13
ptmanI for one wouldn't mind not having to carry several devices, but I guess wimax will take care of it in time19:13
lcukthe one half the nokia following world are following with keen interest19:13
lcuksearch for nokia tube19:14
*** booiiing has joined #maemo19:15
lcuki still personally dont get why people are so against having a gsm modem included. its just another connectivity option that people are used to19:16
* qwerty12 wouldn't have minded looking at the tube but as it lacks buttons to retain compatibility with standard S60v3 9.1 apps, that's a no for me19:16
lcukif you dont want the phone side, remove the sim19:16
*** Free_maN has quit IRC19:16
*** ruphy has joined #maemo19:16
johnxlcuk, it totally depends on how they do it19:16
*** ruphy has left #maemo19:16
*** adjam has joined #maemo19:17
lcukjohnx, of course, but assuming they built a nice fancy phone front end app in linux,  it is then still your choice to run said phone gui19:17
qwerty12lcuk: please, we know the phone stuff will be totally closed source19:17
lcukdont run the phone and stick with standard linux system19:17
johnxit depends on if they have to jump through all the same regulatory hoops as a phone or whether they can get away with isolating the gsm module enough that it's the same situation as a gsm modem card in a laptop19:18
ptmanqwerty12: my guess for a long term plan for nokia: get developers to use qt on s60, move qt to maemo, move software from s60 to maemo19:18
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's nowhere near that simple19:18
GeneralAntillesDropping a radio in there is only the beginning.19:18
lcukwe have a half closed system already - the phone bit could JUST be like skype is now19:18
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you have Ari's blog posts handy to throw at lcuk?19:18
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no it couldn't.19:18
qwerty12ptman: I kinda like it put like that19:18
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: yer, in my history, wait a sec19:18
GeneralAntillesIt has nothing to do with closedness, either.19:18
johnxlcuk, think about this from a hardware/drivers perspective. skype is a totally different level19:18
lcukby the way, the n810wimax edition has the securtity enabled omap242019:19
lcukit needs it to talk to the wimax basestations19:19
GeneralAntillesptman, Nokia has pretty much announced plans for application sharing between S60 and Maemo with Qt bridging the gap.19:19
qwerty12lcuk: &
johnxlcuk, exactly...and sprint's wimax is a lot more open then gsm networks19:19
GeneralAntilles^ read those19:19
*** Khertan_n810 has joined #maemo19:20
ptmanoh? they did? I haven't read that closely, but it makes sense19:20
qwerty12I totally agree with the reasons given btw, the first thing I do on my phones is to remove the shitty branding the shitty networks put on them19:20
ptmanGeneralAntilles: those were written in 2005, a lot can have changed in three years19:20
ptmanbut I'm just saying, I mean nothing by it19:21
lcuki will have to read em later - it was just an observation19:21
qwerty12ptman: not when you consider there have been 3 models after the 770 with no phone19:21
*** Khertan_n810 has quit IRC19:21
*** Khertan_n810 has joined #maemo19:21
*** Mousey has joined #maemo19:22
*** kevinverma has joined #Maemo19:22
ptmanqwerty12: might be they wouldn't want to do that on a rapidly changing software platform19:22
*** booiiing has quit IRC19:22
johnxI think the ITs are going to be too rapidly changing for another couple years at least for them to be at phone levels of stability*19:24
qwerty12ptman: meh, to me it's been pretty much the same so far, just only getting better (of course, I say this after only ever owning an N800). The way I see, there is reasoning from Nokia why they will never put a mobile phone radio in and no hints even of them putting a radio in19:24
johnx*I mean stability not just in "non-crashiness" but also in "non-changing"19:24
qwerty12Although with the N810W, they have moved closer to the phone side, hardware wise. It now uses BB5 which is the security system in their phones19:25
GeneralAntillesYes, ptman, a lot has changed--for the worse. . . .19:25
lcukclosed binary blob handles changability19:25
johnxGeneralAntilles, and for the better too19:25
ptmanGeneralAntilles: care to elaborate on that?19:25
GeneralAntillesMore regulatory nonsense19:26
johnxlcuk, errr....the linux kernel driver ABI is continuously evolving19:26
qwerty12For me, not having a phone in it but wifi which could complement my phone with no wifi was the main reason I bought the tablet. + to hack wifi networks19:26
GeneralAntillesLegislation never gets lighter.19:26
johnxbinary blobs are a ball and chain19:26
lcukjohnx, "sorry, your phone will not work with none standard official nokia kernel"19:26
lcukjohnx, on this device 100% open source is a bit of a pipe dream already19:27
johnxlcuk, exactly, and if Nokia wants to move to a new kernel they potentially need to get someone else to port the driver19:27
* qwerty12 knows that will never happen19:27
qwerty12nokia really have shitty attitudes to open source.19:27
Robot101qwerty12: wtf?19:28
*** guardian has quit IRC19:28
johnxqwerty12, that is actually improving a little. It's still better than Sharp :D19:28
lcukjohnx, but they wrote the stuff themselves19:29
GeneralAntillesNokia doesn't get "working in the community".19:29
*** marcello1 has joined #maemo19:29
Robot101qwerty12: they really don't. they've been funding so much open source development for the past 3-4 years. way more than any hardware manufacturer I can think of.19:29
lcukso yes, if they change the kernel they have to keep their other software upto date19:29
marcello1hi all19:29
GeneralAntillesHowdy, marcello1.19:29
lcukGeneralAntilles, nokia does understand community19:29
qwerty12Robot101: Why is every camera application made by Nokia closed source? Why is the clock application closed?! Why is the memory applet closed which does exactly the same thing as open source command line tools? Little things like that.19:29
johnxlcuk, wrote what stuff? we're talking about a hypothetical binary blob for a gsm chipset...19:30
lcukback later19:30
marcello1i'm interested in n8xx, but i've some question about maemo...19:30
qwerty12johnx: Hehe, I thought the Zaurus was open? A lot of stuff seems to be available to developers on it?19:30
Robot101qwerty12: those bits are easy, there are so much more complex bits like the gstreamer elements, VOIP stack, browser engine, etc which they made open, and they're always releasing more parts19:30
marcello1there anyone who can explain me how does the maemo sync with outlook 2007?19:31
johnxqwerty12, A *lot* of the drivers had to be rewritten. The GUI was forked totally.19:31
Robot101qwerty12: if they gave it all away, you could take all the software, reverse-engineer the hardware, and make a clone device19:31
Khertan_n810why in each community we get so loud troll ?19:31
ptmanmarcello1: it's not a pim19:31
qwerty12Robot101: The camera parts could be very useful to somebody, like the flipping function19:31
Robot101eh? that bit is open source19:31
qwerty12johnx: Bribe them to work on the maemo side :P19:31
*** Alystair has joined #maemo19:31
marcello1ptman: oh, i see.19:31
johnxRobot101, a big chunk of the gstreamer stuff is still closed19:31
qwerty12Robot101: no it isn't.19:31
Robot101it was in the N800, it's in gst-plugins-farsight19:32
ptmanmarcello1: it doesn't come with bundled calendar software for example19:32
AlystairWhat's the maximum sized SD card I can put in a Nokia 770?19:32
* GeneralAntilles 's plan is to replace all of Nokia's crappy closed-source bits with better open source alternatives.19:32
johnxqwerty12, what do you think I work on in my spare time? :P19:32
AlystairAlso can the 770 load the new OS?19:32
Stskeepsqwerty12: i havent adapted chroot scripts to deblet, but it should be possible19:32
GeneralAntillesThe "competitive advantage" nonsense can go right out the window.19:32
ptmanmarcello1: there exists such software, but none of it is very polished19:32
Robot101it just makes an ioctl on the v4l2 driver19:32
johnxqwerty12, but the zaurus is old and's showing it's age19:32
ptmanmarcello1: mail can be used quite well if it is on a imap server19:32
qwerty12johnx: work on deblet? :P19:32
GeneralAntillesAlystair, it's an RS-MMC port.19:32
Stskeepsqwerty12: but you're welcome to make a easy installable package for supporting it19:32
marcello1oh, so you all are telling me that i shouldn't buy a maemo device?19:32
qwerty12Stskeeps: ok, thanks19:32
qwerty12Stskeeps: maybe not :P19:33
GeneralAntillesmarcello1, not for PIM.19:33
Alystaira what?19:33
johnxqwerty12, my goal with debian on tablets has always been to integrate maemo software as's just taken a round-a-bout route...19:33
marcello1ok, now it's more clear.19:33
marcello1sorry, bye all.19:33
ptmanmarcello1: buy it for the right reasons, I use google calendar19:33
Khertan_n810someone can explain darius jack why he is totally wrong on dev mailing list ? i m tired19:33
marcello1no, gcalendar is not my use19:33
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, don't feed the troll. ;)19:34
marcello1i've an account, but i use outlook to merge my private calendar and my exchange calenar19:34
Khertan_n810hum ... right19:34
marcello1a local sync is better for me.19:34
GeneralAntillesYou could spend all day explaining that water is wet to that man and he'd still insist it wasn't.19:34
Alystairok so second question is if the 770 can use the latest OS19:34
ptmanAlystair: no19:34
Alystairthanks btw, GeneralAntilles19:34
marcello1I had a palmos device (T3) that was the best19:34
GeneralAntillesAlystair, sort of.19:34
StskeepsAlystair: there's a hacker edition but i dunno if it's diablo19:34
Robot101qwerty12: that reads the gconf key which gets set by ke-recv (which is also open source) in exchange to the events from the PIO driver in the kernel19:35
*** Pio has left #maemo19:35
johnxAlystair, it can to a certain extent...not with much stability or speed19:35
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, it's ~50-219:35
Khertan_n810marcello1: the best to burn sdcard and don t supporting more than 4  socket at the same time ?19:35
Robot101qwerty12: and then uses the gstreamer video flip API to make sure the video is always the right way up19:35
Khertan_n810with a 32k limitation in heap ?19:35
marcello1the best for my pim needs...19:35
qwerty12Robot101: Interesting, thanks. I don't get why all the camera applications made by Nokia are closed source then :/. The same guy who works for Nokia who made the videocamera app keeps it closed, but keeps his recording application open19:36
*** andrewfblack has joined #maemo19:36
*** Khertan_n810 has quit IRC19:36
Robot101you can write an equally good camera app in about 30 lines of python19:36
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, idiot management, duh. :P19:36
Stskeepsqwerty12: there's no reason why camera apps are closed really - camera appears as a straightforward v4l device19:36
qwerty12lol :P19:36
Stskeepsso it's trivial to clone19:36
Stskeeps(i had it working under deblet without extra gstreamer stuff)19:37
johnxIt's the attitude more than anything else19:37
qwerty12Stskeeps: yeah, that's what confuses me. it's pretty much open anyway, why make a closed app?19:37
johnx30 lines of code to clone here, 100 there19:37
*** Khertan_n810 has joined #maemo19:37
Robot101but yes, it's not very easy to take UI stuff and open source it in Nokia, that's where they add value, and also hold patents19:37
ptmanmarcello1: it you need, I mean _really_ need, outlook/exchange sync, just better get a windows mobile device19:37
marcello1I had now a WM6 device: it is terrible!19:37
Stskeepsit's trivial to make a pygtk app with same design with gstreamer embedded19:38
Khertan_n810marcello1: i found mCalendar better than palm pim'19:38
marcello1I was quite satisfied with Nokia E6119:38
marcello1mCalendar is for maemo?19:38
glassRobot101: they do it for code examples all the time though. (ok they got crappy ui's but anyways)19:38
Khertan_n810mcalendar is really what i like19:38
Alystairhaha dragonball z movie script was leaked19:38
marcello1oh, interesting19:38
*** adjam has quit IRC19:38
Khertan_n810a bit normal as i ve writted it19:39
marcello1I need calendar, todo list,contacts, ...19:39
andrewfblackI was about to call you out on taking up your own app Khertan_n81019:39
Khertan_n810contacts is in progress19:39
Stskeepsmarcello1: :)19:39
marcello1HEI!, Khertan! is it yours?19:39
Khertan_n810taking up ? (sorry i don t understand)19:40
Khertan_n810yep :)19:40
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC19:40
marcello1eheh :-) good idea19:40
andrewfblackSaying how good mcontacts is but not saying you wrote it :)19:40
StskeepsKhertan_n810: pysnippet screenshot is broken btw19:40
Khertan_n810wait a bit for the new version ... there is many changes19:40
marcello1there is anythig that could let me try maemo?19:40
andrewfblackmcalendarI mean19:40
*** krutt has joined #maemo19:40
Khertan_n810Stskeeps: yep many screenshots are broken19:40
qwerty12finally, next time, I'm resizing in windows, parted takes too long :P19:41
marcello1but it syncs with gcalendar....19:41
Khertan_n810uploading with ftp on maemo dont work very well19:41
Khertan_n810ping ?19:41
marcello1otherwise. I read that maemo is based on Debian. So there is apt or something similar?19:41
*** Gatestone has quit IRC19:42
qwerty12Khertan_n810: I use maemo ftp fine to upload stuff to maemobox19:42
ptmanmarcello1: yes19:42
johnxmarcello1, there is apt, but maemo and debian have significantly diverged19:42
Khertan_n810qwerty12: not for me19:42
Khertan_n810many disconnect19:42
marcello1johnx: what does it mean?19:43
Khertan_n810many freeze19:43
*** eton has quit IRC19:43
johnxmarcello1, debian and maemo are different in a lot of ways now, different package versions, in some cases different package names19:43
qwerty12Khertan_n810: Not sure if this is related, but I have brontide's speedtweak which makes some networking changes to sysctl.conf19:43
johnxqwerty12, parted by hand?! O_o pain... Try gparted if you can...19:43
marcello1ok, and what about gpe? is it a valid choice for pim use?19:44
*** eton has joined #maemo19:44
*** madhav has quit IRC19:44
qwerty12johnx: lol, yeah, I should do but when I typed gparted, I got the standard command-not-found telling me to install it, I couldn't be bothered :D19:44
Khertan_n810valid choice as long as you like to use stylus19:44
marcello1why? I don't regret stylus... I used it years with PalmOS19:45
*** mazzen has joined #maemo19:45
Khertan_n810and clic many time19:46
*** secureendpoints has quit IRC19:47
marcello1bah, I looking for smothing working well as a pim and sync well with local outlook data. Have you something to suggest me?19:47
*** Khertan_n810 has quit IRC19:48
qwerty12Btw, using mkfs.jffs2 to backup the flash to a memory card and then using flasher-3.0 to restore it works brilliantly.19:48
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, wiki article time? :D19:48
*** mazzen has quit IRC19:48
Alystairis there a better battery available for the 770? I heard that run time is only about 4 hours on the default battery19:48
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: I could do (and will eventually do) an article, but I was doing this from a custom initfs :D19:49
Alystairwith wifi19:49
GeneralAntillesAlystair, no.19:49
GeneralAntillesIt's more if you drop the brightness a bit.19:49
*** Gatestone has joined #maemo19:50
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: When I get mmc boot set up again, I'll do an article then. atm, to do it from initfs, I have to make an jffs2 image with the mkfs.jffs2 static binary in it and usbnet on the computer. I also have to enable rd-mode otherwise dsme will reboot the tablet after 4 minutes which is not good when you are dumping the flash :/19:51
*** florian has quit IRC19:51
GeneralAntillesJust a touch complicated.19:52
GeneralAntillesThanks in advance, anyway. ;)19:52
qwerty12Yeah. Just a touch. :P19:52
qwerty12Stskeeps: ooh, thanks, I didn't know I was on the deblet page :)19:55
Alystairsuper-last question, can I stream music online? Eg. click on a PLS to stream from an icecast server19:56
Alystairso I can play music from my home machine19:57
GeneralAntillesOr Vagalume with last.fm19:57
*** gentooer has quit IRC19:59
Alystairso I can surf my web-based browser and click on PLS files to automatically stream them?19:59
*** lardman has joined #maemo19:59
Alystairalso mp3s19:59
johnxwow...I didn't even realize ${foo} was a bashism20:00
GeneralAntillesThe cat is now obsessed with the Beagle.20:00
Alystairthe lunar lander?20:00
ptmanjohnx: it is? because I think I learned it from a hardcore netbsd friend, who used it in his bourne shell scripts20:01
GeneralAntilles~beagleboard is
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles20:01
johnxptman, well busybox doesn't like it...20:01
johnxbut `foo` is ok...20:01
qwerty12Lolz,my cat was lazy as hell. He watched the odd few tv programs and then went to sleep.20:02
qwerty12johnx: bash2 is in extras20:02
ptmanjohnx: aren't you confusing it with $()?20:02
*** dholbert has joined #maemo20:02
johnxptman, yup. I really am20:02
* johnx fails20:02
qwerty12johnx: disregard that last statement of mine, didn't fully understand the situation :)20:02
*** booiiing has joined #maemo20:02
* qwerty12 tablet is a mix of shells, I use bash3 as my main shell and a mix of busybox sh and dash for the init scripts20:03
johnxon os2008 I use default stuff because I need it to work :)20:04
qwerty12I know something is messing up though as alarms do not want to enable on the tablet though, so i'll have to check the init script for alarmd20:04
qwerty12heh :)20:04
qwerty12The main reason I switched to bash was for the history command :)20:05
*** marcello1 has left #maemo20:05
qwerty12I installed bash2 from extras, compiled bash3 using the same configure arguments and removed the same patches and replaced the bash binary.20:06
*** eichi has joined #maemo20:06
ptmanargh, I should wash dishes20:06
* qwerty12 solves the problem of washing up by buying takeaway *grin*20:07
lcukwith your paperround money?20:08
qwerty12nay, pocket money20:08
lcukjesus, how much do you get to be able to waste it on takeaway?20:08
* lcuk stopped gettin pocketmoney when he got a paper-round20:09
GeneralAntillesBrits and their funny words. :P20:09
qwerty12lolz, I only get £10 :P. Takeaway (the usual being 6 chicken wings, fries, a drink) only costs me £2.5020:09
* johnx misses taco bell...20:10
GeneralAntilles"takeout" and "an allowance"20:10
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Is this including the weird words and accents that come from the north?20:10
GeneralAntillesjohnx, ew. :P20:10
lcukGeneralAntilles, no, takeout as in mcdonalds20:10
GeneralAntillesThough it is the only place open at 4:30 AM these days.20:10
GeneralAntillesAh, well, that's "fast food"20:10
*** Dar has quit IRC20:10
johnxGeneralAntilles, they got to me while I was young and messed with my taste buds...20:11
*** guardian has joined #maemo20:11
GeneralAntillesI love the cinnamon twists20:11
*** Pebby has joined #maemo20:11
lcukyour digestive tract doesnt20:11
johnxthe cinamon twists are probably one of the healthiest things there :D20:11
GeneralAntillesYeah, really.20:12
GeneralAntillesI kinda wish I could handle eating fast food like I could when I was younger.20:12
*** madhav has joined #maemo20:12
GeneralAntillesIt just grosses me out these days20:12
GeneralAntillessure is convenient, though.20:13
lcukthat concerns me at how quickly you laid hands on a pic - is tacobell set to your homepage?20:13
qwerty12eew, are those fries?20:13
GeneralAntilleslcuk, nah, your google-fu is just really weak. ;)20:13
GeneralAntilles1. google.com20:13
qwerty12Oh, looks more like chicken :/20:13
GeneralAntilles2. Click images20:13
GeneralAntilles3. Type "taco bell cinnamon twists"20:13
*** profoX` has joined #maemo20:13
lcukGeneralAntilles, thats why, i am more refined and use
*** eton has quit IRC20:13
GeneralAntilles4. Hit enter20:13
GeneralAntilles5. click the first image20:13
johnxqwerty12, they're crunchy dessert cinamon flavored things20:13
qwerty12johnx: so glad we don't have them here :P20:14
*** eton has joined #maemo20:14
GeneralAntillesSorta like a non-doughy churro.20:14
qwerty12GeneralAntilles. Google master.20:14
*** Khertan has quit IRC20:14
lcukGeneralAntilles, thank you for the instructions for using google, would you post them on the wiki so everyone gets to share the knowledge20:14
* GeneralAntilles smells opportunity.20:14
johnxqwerty12, eh...taco bell isn't exactly gourmet but I miss the things I can't get...20:14
*** Khertan has joined #maemo20:14
GeneralAntilles"Dear Friend Very Urgent FROM CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA"20:14
lcuk"Please stop eating all our cinamon twists"20:15
qwerty12johnx: heh, get it shipped?20:15
GeneralAntillesI like Chik-fil-A20:15
GeneralAntillesToo bad you can only find 'em in the South.20:15
lcuk2 weeks to the summit20:16
johnxqwerty12, I should do some kind of exchange deal. cell phone shipped from here for taco bell shipped from there...20:16
lcuk2 weeks20:16
* lcuk starts to shat himself20:16
qwerty12johnx: lol20:16
qwerty12lcuk: please don't do that at the summit20:16
johnxqwerty12, that's why he's starting now I think20:16
lcukwhy not, afraid you will miss something?20:16
GeneralAntillesDo it on stage in protest of Nokia's terrible open source behaviors! :D20:17
GeneralAntillesIt'll be filmed in HD20:17
qwerty12lcuk: nah, I want to know about fremantle quickly as possible, don't want the contents of your stomach to delay it :P20:17
lcuknahhhh im not going to have time to produce a crap in the shape of "Give us PVR"20:17
lcukduring practice attempts i could only just get a G in the alloted time20:18
*** bilboed-pi has quit IRC20:18
*** jpuderer has quit IRC20:18
qwerty12lcuk: do it at home and include it in a slide20:18
lcuki really hope to not have to use slides :)20:18
* GeneralAntilles is really idiotically optimistic about Igor showing up with a bunch of N900 prototypes.20:18
lcuk\o/ i create "i am hungry" its stunning in its brilliance20:18
lcukcreated ^20:18
johnxGeneralAntilles, that would make this an very interesting Q4/Q1 for Linux-based devices20:19
lcukGeneralAntilles, well, theres got to be *some* reason for nokia to get hundreds of their developers together - and i know its tied in part to the mobile conference before, but i smell other things20:19
*** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC20:20
GeneralAntilleslcuk, change your underwear. :P20:20
lcukapt-get remove underpants20:21
lcukError: stuck20:21
qwerty12dpkg --purge --force-all underpants20:21
lcukError: Underpants full, cannot purge20:21
qwerty12Warning, underpants are too tight, Removing underpants will remove dependency balls20:21
*** henrique has joined #maemo20:21
qwerty12Sorry, I had to run the magic.20:22
lcukwhats the news on xp service pack 3 by the way?  is it safe yet?20:22
qwerty12I'm still using the leaked beta :p20:22
GeneralAntilles-> #crappyos20:22
qwerty12can't be arsed to upgrade it to the rtm sp320:22
Pebbyas safe as a polar bear with a flamethrower20:22
lcuki know gen20:22
* qwerty12 wants to see if it's a real chan20:23
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you always have a good way out from under the ridicule. :D20:23
johnxPebby, that would explain the polar ice cap...20:23
*** behdad has quit IRC20:23
Pebbyjohnx: We have to stop our foreign support of the Polar League of Bears... we can't keep sending them WMDs20:24
lcukGeneralAntilles, im not fighting my way out, i know qwerty would beat any of us at witty comebacks :)20:24
lcukbeing yoof and all that20:24
qwerty12I saw a picture of a polar bear having to swim with sea all around it, made me kind of sad :)20:24
qwerty12lcuk: nar, my comebacks = dirty and swearing :P20:25
lardmancinnamon twists! /me is glad he doesn't peruse the overnight logs20:25
lcuklardman, :D hiya, so you adding that as a new keyword20:25
lardmanlcuk: I'm using sp3, seems to work20:25
* lcuk really has bacon tagged20:25
GeneralAntilleslcuk, how's the Apple BT keyboard on a lap?20:25
lcukon a lap?20:26
lardmanlcuk: doh, I knew cinnamon was a mistake!20:26
* qwerty12 has a coronary over the deblet dependencies20:26
lcukyou mean on my knee?  or with a laptop20:26
* lardman has to go do the washing up now too20:26
GeneralAntillesWell, I'm contemplating keep it in the glove compartment for a carputer20:26
lcuklardman, cheers, i might update then20:26
sp3000there should be polar bears on antarctica20:26
sp3000then they'd be bipolar bears! ahhaha.20:27
* GeneralAntilles groans.20:27
lcukits great GeneralAntilles, its one of the most comfortable keyboards ive ever used - its small size is deceptive cos its got massive keys20:27
*** Anunakin has joined #maemo20:27
qwerty12what about bi polar bears?20:27
sp3000oh, that too.20:27
*** kevinverma has quit IRC20:28
*** texel has joined #maemo20:28
* GeneralAntilles continues waiting impatiently for UPS.20:31
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: After poking them?20:31
GeneralAntillesIf by "poking", you mean having a package shipped with them.20:31
qwerty12By that definition, I guess you have done so. :P20:32
*** tekojo has left #maemo20:32
qwerty12Stskeeps: sorry to annoy, but is it possible to install multiple environments in deblet?20:32
johnxqwerty12, I did. I'm using gdm. :)20:33
*** Gatestone has joined #maemo20:33
qwerty12johnx: Thanks :). I'll install with gnome as default then :)20:33
johnxqwerty12, you need to make a quick hack to /etc/gdm/gdm.conf20:33
*** MangoFusion has joined #maemo20:34
qwerty12Actually, no I won't. I have enough problems with gnome on the desktop.20:34
qwerty12johnx: will bear that in mind, thanks :)20:34
Pebbyyes, qwerty12, stay far far away20:34
johnxqwerty12, I added the two hilighted lines:
qwerty12I prefer gnome to kde though. I wanted to murder kde 4 by forcing it in to /dev/null20:35
qwerty12johnx: Thanks :). I wonder how come maemo uses 96 dpi by default if you can use 225 :)20:36
*** MoRpHeUz has joined #maemo20:36
johnxI've settled down with gnome for my desktop20:36
Pebbyqwerty12: I prefer neither of them =( They try to do way too much without me wanting them to do it20:36
johnxI insisted on windowmaker for a long time, but eventually I got tired of doing stuff by hand all the time20:37
johnxPebby, what do you use? (I always like trying new stuff...)20:37
* qwerty12 looked at WM and then looked away.20:37
Pebbyjohnx: I'll take things by hand to things by utter, complete magic with no text config files (gnome =P)20:37
johnxqwerty12, It was the only sane game in town in 1998 :)20:37
johnxPebby, fair enough. What desktop and/or wm do you use?20:38
Pebbyjohnx: I'm using Enlightenment DR17 right now, working on putting it on the n81020:38
PebbyBetween it and gentoo, I have finally found my 'happy spot' for being in control ;)20:38
qwerty12johnx: I thank myself for not using linux seriously then. I think red hat 7 then (which was my first proper distro, despite being severely out of date) used gnome20:38
johnxah. good deal then. I compiled it for the n800 in debian but I think a more optimized build would have done better...20:38
Pebbyjohnx: I'm just doing my 'first attempt'... stuck on a weird segfault in sbox =(20:39
*** Dar has joined #maemo20:39
PebbyI used to use XFCE4, though, and that was pretty nice, if too GNOMEy... I just hate NetworkManager, honestly, haha20:39
qwerty12The latest deblet installer is nothing short of excellent.20:39
johnxPebby, I did a build on the tablet took forever but it was straightforward, IIRC20:40
Pebbyjohnx: I was unable to get a build environment set up.. got stuck compiling autogen with a libc error, and I don't know how to get another good libc on the tablet. Thought about stealing the binaries from sbox, hehe. In the end, I think sbox will be good for 99% of things, then maybe I can cross-compile to the n810 when I need it, like now! ;)20:41
lcukstealing? just set the repo and use apt20:41
johnxPebby, Ah, like I said, this was under debian on the tablet20:41
*** thopiekar has left #maemo20:42
PebbyYeah, I did use apt... but the libc provided doesn't compile autogen for me, and there's no autogen in apt, as far as I can tell20:42
*** crashanddie has quit IRC20:42
lardmanPebby: you know there was an enlightenment image from OE?20:42
Pebbylardman: Nope, news to me... DR17? I'm interested in setting up a build environment, though, so I can actually work on it ;)20:43
lardmanbring on the PowerVR ;)20:43
*** dneary has quit IRC20:43
lardmanPebby: yeah, take a look at Angstrom, should be an Enlightenment target20:43
jottugh, spam on maemo-community..... :O20:44
GeneralAntillesIt's useful spam!20:44
lardmanjott: me email!? ;)20:44
* jott starts reading20:44
jottjust like 50 new mails in one day ;)20:44
jotti hope the rate goes down again :)20:44
GeneralAntillesIt surely will20:45
GeneralAntillesVoting's starting20:45
GeneralAntillesQuim kicked the changelog discussion in the ass.20:45
Pebbylardman: Nice, thanks for the info... never heard of Angstrom until now20:45
lardmanPebby: one option is to setup Bitabake & OpenEmbedded, but then you won't be compatible with the standard Nokia binaries20:45
lardmanPebby: I can't see any Nokia downloads, but it certainly builds as I've used it before on my 770 and N80020:46
zuhPebby: Seen this: ?20:46
qwerty12It had to happen to me :). deblet installer is failing as packages list from debian is corrupt20:46
lardmanPebby: perhaps lurk in #oe and #angstrom and ask someone20:46
jottoe has a maemo target...20:46
jott(which builds compatible debs)20:46
Pebbylardman: Eh, incompatibility doesn't bother me much... I like no-man's land. I just wish I could figure out the DIY way before grabbing other stuff - can't believe I got stuck. Actually I got stuck compiling libguile which autogen needed, and libguile would never build =(20:47
lardmanmight be interesting to try that and build the Enlightenment debs, looking at the e17-image.conf (iirc) file to see what's needed20:47
Pebbylardman: I have enlightenment lib debs built already, actually - just stuck on the actual WM, hehe20:47
lardmanPebby: bitbake & OE are nice, it should just build, simple as that20:48
jottand there should be some amount of efl in extras already due to canola..20:48
*** harryl has quit IRC20:48
Pebbylardman: Nice, all new to me... I will look at them, for sure. I had a thought about why my libguile might now be building on the n810 too... hmm20:49
qwerty12Pebby: - he's managed to get guile from what I can see20:49
lardmanPebby: have a look and check the OE mailing list too, then give me a shout if you have any troubles20:50
lardmanPebby: the big issue with e17 was that it required so much disk space to install on the Zaurus, etc., that it was never overly useful. I don't know how much love it's had since then20:50
Pebbythanks qwerty12, how did you find that site? Or, rather, what site is that? ;)20:51
lardmanlooked pretty though :)20:51
johnxlardman, though disk space isn't much of a concern any more, what with SDHC and all...20:51
qwerty12Pebby: It's the repo of the guy who maintains the xmms os2008 port. It's in his sig, I have it enabled on my tablet for some rare libs that I needed  :)20:51
*** Grackle has joined #maemo20:51
Pebbylardman: Huh, it was really miniscule when I did a 'built for smallness' build for my eee20:51
jottlardman: i guess it got love due to beagleboard.20:52
Pebbyqwerty12: awesome, thank you20:52
jottatleast the beagleboard images run a e17 desktop.20:52
lardmanPebby: miniscule is relative!20:52
lardmanPebby: like 64Mb total flash for the c750 I had20:52
Pebbylardman: Oh, absolutely, but there's a guy doing some great work for E on the openmoko too20:52
*** Gracana has quit IRC20:52
qwerty12Pebby: :/, seems like I wouldn't recommend it then :/20:53
jottand actually i saw e17 desktop running on both a n800 and a begaleboard :)20:53
Pebbyqwerty12: gah... ugly20:53
lardmanjott: I had that on my 770 iirc and certainly c750, but no room for apps! :)20:55
Pebbylardman: let me find the page for the guy doing the openmoko stuff20:55
lardmanPebby: np, glad it's being worked on, but not something I'm overly interested in20:55
lardmanthanks though20:55
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo20:55
*** Zic has quit IRC20:56
Pebbyhehe, well, dangit I'm interested and I can't find the link again ;)20:56
lardmanwhen we have working opengl, then perhaps I'll be more interested ;)20:56
Pebbyheh... please, call me, day or night, when that happens =P20:56
* lcuk . o O ( mmmmm 3d goodness )20:56
Pebbyn810 with openGL addon mmmm20:57
* jott start celebrating pow**** time!20:57
lcukwell thats already available, its the cores inside the 2420 we want20:57
jott(this time remembering the first rule:)20:57
lcukwe dont talk about powervr?20:57
Pebbywhat do you mean, it will be so beautiful that those 15 minutes with the device will be worth it20:58
jottlcuk won't get any drivers now :(20:58
lardmansupper time!20:58
lardmanoi you! :p20:58
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gorging20:59
*** lardman|gorging is now known as lardman|eating20:59
qwerty12Pebby: libguile compiled fine here20:59
lcuklol lardman|eating are you havin bacon?20:59
lardman|eatinghope so! ;)20:59
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo20:59
lcukjott, i made i am hungry :)20:59
lardman|eatinganyway, I will be having nothing if I don't go now, bbiab20:59
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC21:00
Pebbyqwerty12: are you using any of your own built libs or did you just get them from apt, then download guile? Guile 1.8.x or 1.6.x?21:00
*** krutt has quit IRC21:01
qwerty12_N800Pebby: from apt, ver 1.621:02
GAN800 /.'s stupid ajax comment system slows down the browser so much. :(21:02
lcukget a decent computer then21:02
lcukor use a decent browser21:02
GAN800Same goddamn computer and browser you use. ;)21:03
lcukwindows + firefox?   logged in slash loads 250 comments and its quick - even altering the slider doofer21:03
jottc64 with hyperlink? :)21:04
Pebbyqwerty12_N800: aha, therein lies the problem - the autogen I'm trying to build needs libguild 1.8.x21:04
GAN800MicroB + Maemo. . . .21:04
lcukthats a big article from today21:04
lcukGAN800, ahhh you mean you actually browse the web on your nokia?21:04
Pebbyqwerty12_N800: maybe I will just try to build an older autogen and see if everyone can be happy21:04
lcuki agree then21:04
*** Khertan has quit IRC21:04
GAN800You don't?21:04
*** Khertan has joined #maemo21:04
GAN800I do all the time.21:04
PebbyGAN800: best browser = links2 - DUH! ;)21:04
lcuknot if i have something else to do - i aws not drawn to my n810 because of the web21:05
jottelinks ftw!21:05
lcukliqwww ;)21:05
Pebbyhaha elinks would run like a dream on the n8xx... we should port it =P21:05
qwerty12_N800Pebby: ah :(21:05
Pebbyqwerty12_N800: thank you, though... do you have an autogen on your n800, then? If so, where'd ya get it? ;)21:05
lcukjust ask him for the binaries and or changed sources21:05
lcukquickly, if he has it he wont for long21:06
qwerty12_N800Pebby: no, I don't compile on my N800 :)21:06
jottPebby: huh?! what are you trying to do?21:06
lcukoh crap, you missed your chance, hes reflashed again21:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk, just, fyi:21:06
* GAN800 <- tablet21:06
* GeneralAntilles <- computer21:06
lcukgan, i know its your tablet - i sit back on a sunday morning and xchat from bed with it21:06
* yacoob <- human21:06
lcuk<- species unknown21:07
* jott <- indistinguishable if using tablet or computer21:07
qwerty12_N800lcuk: thanks to the miracle of mkfs.jffs2 + g_serial, my reflashing days are over :)21:07
lcuk:D heh21:07
GeneralAntillesI tend to get a bit "short" on the tablet21:07
GeneralAntillesso I feel it's good for people to know why. ;)21:08
lcukoh, i thought that was just pmt21:08
Pebbyjott: I'm trying to get an autogen on my n810, and the latest autogen wants the latest libguile, but that libguile won't build21:08
qwerty12_N800<-- Too much chains on me to be able to identify me21:08
jottPebby: hm just fetched debian sids guile-1.8 builds fine here21:08
jottin scratchbox that is21:08
Pebbyjott: from where now?21:08
johnxmatchbox-keyboard continues to be too clever by far...21:09
RST38hautogen is evil.21:09
*** jku has joined #maemo21:09
*** jku has left #maemo21:09
Pebbyevil but required for what I'm doing ;)21:09
jottPebby: a debian mirror near you?21:09
Pebbythe n8xx can use packages from debian? O_o21:10
PebbyI assumed that was an invitation to trouble, hehe21:10
lcuki once tried to install dracula.deb    but i couldnt find it in any of the mirrors :D21:10
jottPebby: source packages, sure.21:10
jottwhen there are no big dependency problems..21:10
johnxPebby, grab source packages, munge as necessary21:10
lcukim goin codin - bbl21:10
Pebbyaha, interesting idea... I just pull everything from a GNU mirror, hehe =P21:11
jottuh, that sounds like unnecessary work..21:12
sjgadsbyAnyone know what type of button cell is on the PCB in an N800?21:12
jottor at least redundant work :)21:12
Pebbyjott: a man in a dark room fumbling around for a light switch is unnecessary work if he doesn't know there's a clapper ;)21:12
*** andrewfblack has quit IRC21:14
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: nit-env-stskeeps might conflict but beyond that no21:14
PebbyIn any case, unnecessary work sometimes yields information, especially when that information is the unnecessary work was unnecessary ;)21:14
lcukbut that man might encounter naked female flesh21:14
Pebbyare you saying #maemo is naked female flesh?21:15
lcukewwww no, a group of linux guys sat in irc wearing boxers is not what i had in mind21:16
PebbyYou wear boxers at your job?! :D21:16
lcukyour boss lets you irc from work?21:16
johnxPebby, you go commando at your job?!21:16
Pebbyjohnx: It provides inspiration21:16
lcukand a cooling breeze21:17
johnxinspiration to work hard enough to afford underwear?21:17
Mikhohmm, commando at work21:17
PebbyIRC from work, web browsing from work, whatever... as long as we get our work done - there's a lot of 'sit and wait for it to build' here ;)21:18
MikhoI wonder if that's where the special force soldiers got their name21:18
lcukglobal memo: all maemo staffers are required to enroll in the work from home program21:18
lcukpebby, ahhhh compiling, the biggest excuse known to tech21:18
* lcuk waits for someone to post xkcd swordfight21:19
lcuk! im meant tobe codin21:19
Pebbyseriously... if they let us keep the levels textureless and empty, the levels would build so fast21:19
Mikhoso how big systems are you compiling?21:19
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo21:19
Mikhobut well, I got a new pc when I complained about compile times21:20
lcuksyou know what to do: get a new pre-processor to make use of the new horsepower21:20
Pebbyhehe, I used to bring in my home computer to work because it was so much faster =P21:20
Mikhowouldn't a real hacker create the software on the work pc, and compile with the one at home?21:22
lcuk:D lanparty21:22
PebbyAt least I waste my time on educational things while waiting for stuff at work ;)21:22
PebbyMikho: I distcc to my home computer all day, but we're not compiling C, much less compiling, haha21:22
lcukpebby :D thank you21:23
* lcuk ponders setting up distcc on tablet sending data back to lappy21:24
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: Any idea? - that's my 3rd mirror with the same errors21:24
*** n800m has joined #maemo21:24
PebbyYou could distcc to sbox, couldn't you?21:24
lcukwell reading distcc is just a frontend and uses gcc already there21:25
lcukso i assume it would21:25
PebbyYeah... that would be a fun experiment21:25
lcuki compile raw c directly on device - but c++ is just a bit too slow for my liking21:25
riotgeeez! the pin-entry application is so BAD21:26
rioti want to extend it.. BADLY21:26
lcukanother alternative ive considered: the original c++ (cfront) was just a preprocessor and produced c code, if i could get it running on tablet it might be faster21:26
riotits insecure, uncomfy, and too SMALL21:26
lcukriot, LOTS of the ui on these tablets is too small21:26
*** krutt has joined #maemo21:27
*** BabelO has quit IRC21:27
riotlcuk: actually i didn't really notice anything else. But the pinentry HAS to be finger-comfy.21:27
qwerty12_N800riot: of course it's insecure, all you have to do is cat /dev/mtd1 | grep lockcode to see that21:27
jottlcuk: use icecream instead it has nicer status graphs and a sweeter name :)21:28
riotqwerty12_N800: noooo.. not that complicated.. just watch over somebodys shoulder and you see the last entered digit being MARKED by a blue border.. STUPID?21:28
GeneralAntilleslcuk, holdover from the largely stylus-only OS2005 UI.21:28
lcukriot, i find the focus of the ui is wrong, tiny dialog buttons abound - like at night, turning off wifi - its a tiny little thing21:28
lcukstylussmeilus, its tough aiming for tiny things with a stylus - like threading a needle21:28
lcukeven with a stylus if there is space for a large format ui - use it21:28
riotlcuk: yeah, oook. Maybe true. A simple _large_ customizable menu-app would help there, because you wouldn't want the standard icons (in the status-tray) to be too large either.. (yes, i almost always miss them with my index-finger21:29
riotand why cant i use the keyboard(!) to enter the pin? Why can i only use numbers as pin? Thats right out stupid...21:29
lcukriot, yes - even putting control panel into the menu would suffice21:29
riotso, is this pinentry-thing opensource? Or can i replace it with my own?21:30
lcukit annoys me that numeric text boxes come up in alpha mode21:30
qwerty12_N800riot: closed source, powerlaunch may be your thing21:30
lcuknot sure, have a look21:30
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: md5sum problem?21:30
riotqwerty12_N800: i'm having a look21:30
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: could be actually, i think i'm using a retarded md5sum binary :)21:31
riotmmhm :( not in my repositories.. am i missing something very significiant?21:32
riotand can anyone explain, why integral components of the UI are closed source?21:32
riot(link, if available would probably suffice)21:33
*** sergio has quit IRC21:33
GeneralAntillesriot, "competitive advantage"21:33
johnxriot, Nokia doesn't feel like releasing them.21:33
*** setanta has quit IRC21:33
GeneralAntillesStupid, I know, but Nokia management is what it is.21:33
jottnokia thinks that some cheap china hardware could harm them ...21:33
riotthats SO stupid21:33
GeneralAntillesWell, that's not the whole story.21:34
GeneralAntillesThere's legal issues involved with some stuff21:34
riotcompetitive advantage.. pfffzs.. buzzword!21:34
GeneralAntillesand plain old laziness with others.21:34
johnxNokia benefit doesn't see direct financial benefit, and they see *potential* loss21:34
jottwell but legal issues are not really significant for most components..21:34
GeneralAntillesSince releasing the sources isn't just "OK, GPL, here's your code"21:34
johnxs/Nokia/Nokia management/21:34
infobotjohnx meant: Nokia management benefit doesn't see direct financial benefit, and they see *potential* loss21:34
riotjohnx: yeah, sounds reasonable. Though still stupid21:34
*** BabelO has joined #maemo21:34
*** yerga has joined #maemo21:34
timelessgan: ping21:35
* riot electrocutes infobot21:35
qwerty12_N800it's quite funny actually, a chinese mid maker copied the hildon interface (as usual) but didn't use the hildon source21:35
GeneralAntillesThe code has to be reviewed, licensing has to be pounded out, it has to be gotten into the infrastructure for code releases.21:35
timeless.... pure noise for the average Nokia guy working on Maemo software.21:35
GeneralAntillestimeless, pong.21:35
johnxriot, actually I misused it in that case :)21:35
timelessis that "in Maemo Software" or does it really mean "on <random> Maemo .. software"21:35
* timeless assumes the former21:36
*** Gatestone has quit IRC21:36
riotthing is, we could just go ahead and reimplement the thing - but without necessary specifics that would be a run for the gauntlet (this expression correct for german "Spiessrutenlauf"?? ;)21:36
*** tbf has joined #maemo21:36
riotjohnx: even the better :)21:36
RST38hReleasing stuff into open source is useless unless Nokia is ready to accept back the patches21:36
riotjohnx: they WILL learn... just when?21:36
GeneralAntillestimeless, former, I'd imagine.21:37
GeneralAntillesAdd a comment asking qgil for a clarification if you want.21:37
riotRST38h: its more useless not releasing anything21:37
RST38hriot: does not make a difference21:37
riotwhat would the IT-platform be without opensource?21:37
RST38hriot: although releasing the code but not accepting patches will piss off "open source community" way more than not releasing the code21:38
jottRST38h: there still can be improvements on community side. (like rotation support)21:38
RST38hjott: Yes, but it requires a custom kernel21:38
riotRST38h: possibly. They could just have a look at successful OSS-Projects. Take Mozilla for example.21:38
RST38hHow many users are ready to use a custom kernel?21:38
jottor even deriving work. (like the statusbar thing i had to trace down)21:38
johnxRST38h, people might be pissed off, but at least something will be fixed. Right now people see that to fix something they first have to rewrite it from scratch21:38
riotgoogle just released chromium... which would be NOTHING without opensource21:39
jottRST38h: there are quite a few. but i agree that it is better to accept patches.21:39
johnxriot, mozilla was not successful for its original parent company. :)21:39
RST38hjohnx: It is only fixed when it is included into an SSU update21:39
riotand yet, they still maintain a closed(license) variant21:39
riotjohnx: no. But the foundation is!21:39
johnxRST38h, that's a very limited view21:39
RST38hjohnx: Otherwise, it is just a few geeks playing in the sandbox21:39
johnxRST38h, if it works for 3 people that's 3 more than 021:39
riotRST38h: that sounds badly like the openmoko project - and i foresee: They will succeed!21:39
riotjohnx: good attitude!21:40
RST38hjohnx: Well, if you are satisfied with 3 people, it is all good21:40
RST38hjohnx: But I defined "fixed" as "fixed for all tablet users"21:40
johnxRST38h, not "good," just "better"21:40
RST38hAlso, pisses off the guys who fixed it for those 3 people21:41
johnxRST38h, example: rotation. Because people have the source users can install rotation support and use it.21:41
johnxriot, Not a good example to show to Nokia. They don't want to go the same way as Netscape did. :)21:41
RST38hjohnx: I still do not have rotation support21:41
riotjohnx: ;)21:41
johnxRST38h, well, that's a choice, isn't it?21:41
RST38hjohnx: it requires unofficial kernel and I do not want to istall unofficial kernel21:42
RST38hjohnx: it is both a choice and a statistic21:42
johnxRST38h, good for you. not everything depends on the kernel21:42
RST38hjohnx: I know the "it is good to have a choice" mantra all too well21:42
GeneralAntillesNokia basically doesn't accept patches for most of the stuff they've got out there anyway.21:42
riotjohnx: anyway, i think firefox is by far the most successful browser to date. Not taking the M$-Advertizing-Blabla for real.21:42
jottRST38h: i for one know that the kernel was downloaded far more than 1000 times from my site alone.21:43
riotjohnx: and if you put a good money-making-scheme (not annoying the users!) behind that project - they'd SO win21:43
RST38hjohnx: Unfortunately, for *both* Nokia and its observers (i.e. myself), giving geeks a choice is not enough21:43
johnxriot, yes, definitely. It's a very successful product in terms of empowering people. But it absolutely failed at making Netscape rich.21:43
lcukriot, actually most success, is googles chrome, someone was saying if the takeup rates continue it will be at 100% by year end21:43
RST38hjott: How many tablets have been sold though?21:43
jottstill i totally agree that accepting patches is the best solution.21:43
riotall i want is to develop the pinentry-dialog :(21:43
timelessjohnx: mozilla/5 or mozilla/1 ? :)21:43
riotits not usable the way it is :(((21:43
johnxRST38h, there's a grey area in between "nothing" and "everything"21:44
timelessmozilla/1 made the stock holders very rich (aol bought them)21:44
lcukriot, i only wanted to draw things on the screen quickly ..21:44
GeneralAntillesMaybe more21:44
RST38hThen we are talking 0.1%21:44
johnxlcuk, that's what you get for putting software on the front page of ...21:44
johnxtimeless, mozilla the OSS project21:44
riotjohnx: because they (and the foundation) totally dropped net-income. Consider this: Google gave them 60 million bucks just for the "Google-Search" being default........21:44
lcukjohnx, i wonder how many people will change fulltime21:44
timelessjohnx: offered my mac ie 5.2.3 a chance to download google chrome21:44
RST38hjohnx: Actually, it is not a uniformly grey area21:44
timelesslater it offered my google chrome a chance to download google chrome21:44
riotlcuk: there are a LOT of tools to do that, if i don't misunderstand you21:45
jottRST38h: i don't get your point. oss *allows* choice. that's the whole point about it.21:45
RST38hjohnx: it gets a little crowded at the "nothing" end21:45
lcukriot, graphical performance on this tablet leaves a lot to be desired21:45
jottand if it only penetrates 0.1% it's still worth it for me.21:45
RST38hjohnx: and by the nature of this project, there is no chance for it to get over the half of this range unless your patches get included into SSU21:45
riotlcuk: huh? why?21:45
*** tkharju has joined #maemo21:45
GeneralAntillesRST38h, 1000 is just from jott's obscure and hard-to-find site.21:46
lcuktry doing something that needs rapid updates21:46
riotlcuk: does it have unused pressure sensitivity?21:46
RST38hGA: Ok. 10000. 1%.21:46
GeneralAntillesI'd be interested to see the stats on qwerty12's kernel on itT.21:46
lcukno, i use all the pressure sensitivity21:46
riotlcuk: hmmm. what are you imagining?21:46
*** _berto_ has quit IRC21:46
GeneralAntillesRST38h, how many downloads on your emulators? :P21:46
lcukriot, start there
RST38hGA: About 10k-20k when combining and my site21:47
* riot has a look21:47
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles: If I figure it out, i'll check the stats :)21:47
jottso 1%-2%... seems not worth the effort by your arguments then...21:47
RST38hGA: But these are applications, not system improvements21:47
RST38hjott: It's not, or I would charge for them21:47
riotgnf.. gotta train my mplayer to mute only ITS signal21:47
RST38hjott: But anyway, with the system software it is a different thing21:48
jottRST38h: still you do it because you thing it's good for you and the users.21:48
jottRST38h: and i never doubt that the best solution would be to accept patches.21:48
RST38hjott: My point is that in order for the "community based development" to succeed, the changes made by the community have to filter through toward the end users21:48
jottbut if only 1% of the users really want the improvement?21:49
RST38hjott: I do it because it is good for testing and I play them every now and then myself21:49
riotlcuk: that looks interesting...! /halfway through21:49
RST38hjott: That you cannot realistically know21:49
johnxRST38h, exactly my point! and if other people benefit, all the better, right?21:49
RST38hjohnx: what point? =)21:49
jottRST38h: but as i said. i never argue against upstream acceptance.21:49
johnxRST38h, that you do it for yourself primarily. :)21:50
RST38hAll I am saying is that just opening the code without accepting feedback is just going to piss off the developers.21:50
RST38hjohnx: Yes, but I am no Nokia. I am sure Nokia does not develop Maemo to "play with it" :)21:50
riotlcuk: got that in a repository?21:50
lcukriot, that version is parked in the maemo garage :)21:51
jottRST38h: which developers? and i think most oss developers are happy about code even if they might not be able to create patches that will make it upstream.21:51
riotlcuk: under what name?21:51
lcukliqbase :)21:51
lcukhey jaffa21:52
johnxRST38h, by that argument the linux kernel devs must be pissing off everyone with their high standards21:52
jottRST38h: and really, things like the statusbar applet are unnecessary and redundant work due to the closed nature.21:52
johnxRST38h, They might as well close source it, huh?21:52
lcukriot, its in source form only in the garage - theres a binary available and more info here
*** TeringTu1y has joined #maemo21:53
GeneralAntillesSomebody want to flesh out apt and dpkg usage a bit?
lcukin the svn is a packagable version, but i wasnt happy with all the bits and folders it uses and lots of other reasons21:53
lcukif you wait a couple of weeks there should be a nice actual bookreader package (fingers crossed)21:54
riotlcuk: this is c? c++?21:54
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo21:54
lcukriot, do you see what i meant by performance, i tried most other methods to get that simple page of text drawing21:56
riotlcuk: what are you doing with cpufreq? i'm currently developing a little app (for my quad core) to display the current frequencies of all the cores :)21:57
lcuknothing, just changing the governor mode21:57
riotlcuk: hmm, as far as i've seen, all the "established" note-taking apps are quite fluid. So maybe you're just drawing too much handwritten stuff??21:58
*** Anunakin has quit IRC21:58
lcuki meant the reader :) but the graffiti wall isnt too much - think how many lines a mapping program needs to draw21:58
riotlcuk: hmm. How much scalability is there??21:58
lcukin what respect? level of detail and density, or cpu?21:59
*** Anunakin has joined #maemo21:59
riotlcuk: yeah, but they mostly draw linear lines. Oh, and i've observed e.g. opengl taking HUGE unnecessary amounts of power to draw _lines_.21:59
lcukwe have opengl on this device?21:59
riotlcuk: aah, talking about governors.. which spectrum can the omap do? 400 mhz seems to be (un-)official maximum22:00
riotlcuk: oh, i read, the omap comes with an accelerator22:00
lcukyeah it does, but we have no drivers22:00
riot...opengl might be... unavailable22:00
riotgzzz. kick nokia again ;)22:00
lcukwell theres progress on that front :)22:00
riotaaagh. kick nokia HARD22:01
riotthey don't harness the power of that tiny 3D-God??! OMFG22:01
riothow stupid22:01
riotcairo WANTS this22:01
lcukits to do with hardware design22:01
lcukbut we think we have found a route to getting the data out22:01
riotItalodance: yeah, seen it.22:01
timelesslcuk: how do you spell mAeMo.oRg CoMmUniTy?22:02
qwerty12_N800Italodance: thanks, i've only got TS's :p22:02
riotlcuk: i suppose the device has been used in other platforms already... so.. it would be REALLY nice to use22:02
lcuktimeless ? i already know that i think22:02
riotoh boy, i wanna drive to nokia's HQ and kick asses - for stupidity :((22:03
timelesslcuk: just write it here, please? :)22:03
lcukriot, the hardware is in use in other n series devices, but they use the omap2420 onboard display out to deliver the 3d to the screen, the n8x0 uses a custom LCD driver which cannot directly access the powervr 3d display plane22:03
Italodance[  NUKE  ] [ The.Dark.Knight.DVDSCR.XViD-OPTiC ] [ stolen.dvd.source.from.p2p ]  NO MATTER! YEAH22:04
lcuktimeless, huh?22:04
*** TeringTuby has quit IRC22:05
* lcuk is getting losterer and losterer22:05
GeneralAntillesandre__, ping.22:07
riotlcuk: hmmm. Thats sad. Do you think, this will get better in the future?22:08
GeneralAntillesandre__, fix this:
GeneralAntillesDelete the leading spaces in from of the asterisks and your lists wont look like code blocks.22:08
riotlcuk: and i've seen various optimizations in some video-players (ie. mplayer).. .are these working without the powervr?22:08
lcukim hopeful, if you read the discussion page for that wiki article you will see nokia have drivers22:09
GeneralAntillesriot, OMAP3 solves all of our problems.22:09
andre__GeneralAntilles, is this an art class? :-P22:09
lcukriot, yes everything to date uses optimizations of the native 2d22:09
GeneralAntillesandre__, no, this is an exercise in conformity. YOU WILL CONFORM! :P22:09
riotGeneralAntilles: hmm. not with the n810-devices, eh?22:09
GeneralAntillesMaybe for drivers22:09
andre__GeneralAntilles, But it IS code! Compile and you will see! :-P22:09
GeneralAntillesBut definitely not with the LCD controller.22:09
riotlcuk: oh boy... the powervr could maybe deliver HDTV content on the n810....22:09
lcuknot really, best i think thats possible is 640*480 - and you would be looking to the IVA to help decoding22:10
*** Dar has quit IRC22:10
GeneralAntillesriot, not the one in the OMAP242022:11
GeneralAntillesh.264 at 640x480, though. . . .22:11
riotwell... I've watched some bunch of movies on my device already  ( - because i prefer on cd-movies over any dvd/bluray-idiocracy..)22:13
liriwho cares about hdtv on a tablet?22:13
liriI'll be satisfied with vivos! :-)22:13
riotso.. if it gets better - wonderful! that aint as problematic as the pinentry-dialog e.g.22:13
lcukliri - if your tv shows come down as hd then you have to convert and watch - if we had a bit more oooomph then we could just watch as downloaded22:14
riotliri: i don't care - but some streams i have are TOO high-resolutioned - so they don't run smoothly, which is sorta of a nuisiance22:14
riotlcuk: exactly. That would be WAY cool - just not to bother22:14
rioti really dislike re-encoding stuff.. my workstation does that in no matter of time - but it right now involves me starting the process ;(22:15
lirijust kidding you guys :P22:16
lcukat the moment we spend so much cpu time just scaling the video its unreal22:16
lcukthats not touching any of the help we could get with actual decoding22:16
qwerty12_N800we serious chan. we kill those who who joke.22:16
tank-manwhy not make the process to re encode automatic22:17
sjgadsbyStill no exit poll results on CNN from the community council elections.22:17
lcukwe need kermit the frog reporting live from the maemo headquarters22:17
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, damn liberal media! :P22:18
lcukerrrr - where are the elected reps gonna be housed?  are they setting up shop in Brussels?22:19
sjgadsbyAh well, those Florida voters will probably mess the whole thing up anyway.22:19
*** krutt has quit IRC22:19
lcukgood job we haven't got diebold voting machines22:19
lcukOH SHIT! why havent we wrote our own voting software22:19
lcuk:D we should vote from the terminal and show the real goverments how its done and win massive mega contracts to supply millions of n810s22:20
*** krutt has joined #maemo22:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: just rm md5sum and ours will put a good one in when it starts :P22:21
*** madhav has quit IRC22:21
tank-manyou know diebold is now known as premier election system22:21
riotlcuk: you ever saw the "voting" system on a WII?22:22
lcuki thought we werent meant to discuss the war22:22
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: yeah, i did that, the installer is working great :)22:22
lcukno i havent though22:23
*** behdad has joined #maemo22:24
lcukanyway, ive been sidetracked for too long, theres lots of code to throw away and rebuild22:24
lcukback later22:24
GeneralAntillessjgadsby, I voted 40 times22:24
GeneralAntillesFor darius jack22:24
* sjgadsby laughs22:25
* GeneralAntilles kinda wishes there was a write-in field now. . . .22:26
RST38hDarius can't become a US president22:26
sjgadsbyHad he nominated himself, it might have been difficult to resist clicking...22:26
RST38hAnd it is *not* being clinically insane =)22:26
*** konttori has joined #maemo22:26
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: and i'm not annoyed by questions if a certain lag of answers can be accepted. i've sat in a ircd support channel for almost 10 years now, i can handle things ;)22:28
*** lcuk has quit IRC22:28
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: :), thanks, I can wait :).I installed deblet first before your bootmenu lol22:30
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: shouldn't make a difference - bootmenu.d items are taken in at first flash anyway22:31
qwerty12_N800ok, cool, i'll install your bootmenu after this and dump it so I can mod it :)22:31
*** Raytray has joined #maemo22:34
*** ian_brasil has joined #maemo22:36
*** konttori has quit IRC22:38
timelesscould someone here test backup for me?22:39
*** smancke has joined #maemo22:40
* timeless pokes RST38h22:41
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo22:43
ian_brasiljust logged into the wiki and apparently i am IP
*** p| has joined #maemo22:45
*** thopiekar has left #maemo22:46
*** sp3000 has quit IRC22:47
*** moontiger has joined #maemo22:49
*** lbt has joined #maemo22:49
*** erstazi has left #maemo22:53
*** Sargun has joined #maemo23:00
*** ghriehggnoeezoiz has joined #maemo23:01
*** ghriehggnoeezoiz has left #maemo23:01
mardi__anyone in need of an N800 - last half hour of my auction >
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo23:05
*** krutt has quit IRC23:06
*** CptLaptop has quit IRC23:07
*** dforsyth has quit IRC23:07
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo23:07
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo23:14
*** borism has quit IRC23:14
*** crashanddie has quit IRC23:25
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: Little tiny mistake in refresh-bootmenu.d- "Are you sure to continue? (yes/no) : yes" - "OK, see you later :-)", I should have typed y...23:27
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo23:27
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC23:27
*** housetier has joined #maemo23:29
*** Italodance has quit IRC23:29
n800manyone know how to make a 32 bit bmp in gimp? it can't convert from 24 bit to 32 here23:32
n800mi'm sure i'm missing something23:32
*** n800m is now known as elekt23:32
*** secureendpoints has joined #maemo23:32
*** borism has joined #maemo23:35
RST38hqwerty: "Yes is no and no is yes. Format your harddrive? [y/n]"23:36
*** tkharju has quit IRC23:36
*** briatx has quit IRC23:36
*** Anunakin has quit IRC23:36
*** briatx has joined #maemo23:36
RST38hBottomless is the BSD fortune cookie jar...23:36
*** briatx has quit IRC23:37
*** briatx has joined #maemo23:37
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC23:38
*** briatx has joined #maemo23:38
*** IRSeekBot has quit IRC23:38
*** qwerty12_n800 has joined #maemo23:41
Stskeepsqwerty12_n800: i always use yes23:43
*** yerga has quit IRC23:44
*** briatx has quit IRC23:44
*** briatx_ has joined #maemo23:44
qwerty12_n800Stskeeps: didn't work for me :p23:45
*** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC23:46
Stskeepsyour locale must be defaulting "yes" to be "y"23:46
Stskeepsis your locale=UK_CHAV?23:46
* Stskeeps ducks23:46
* qwerty12_n800 has to get used to irssi 23:46
*** sjgadsby has quit IRC23:47
qwerty12_n800Stskeeps: lol, i aint from essex :p23:47
* jott does the irssi dance23:47
Stskeepsthere's a irssi dance?23:47
Stskeepsit goes alt-1,2,3, alt-a, /window list?23:47
lbtlots of irssis fall from the sky23:47
qwerty12_n800Stskeeps: I need to make your bootmenu black, white hurts my eyes in the dark :p23:48
jottadv-backlight initfs edition! :)23:49
lbtthere's a button for that23:49
lbtin the middle at the top23:49
qwerty12_n800jott: dsmetest :p23:49
jottyep :)23:49
jottbut no gui :D23:49
qwerty12_n800I use kotc's text2screen stuff :)23:50
Stskeepsqwerty12_n800: blackmenu, eh? :P23:50
qwerty12_n800sounds good :p23:50
jotti wanted to write a real gui for initfs, but yet lacked of time to do so.23:50
lbtjott: I've been playing23:51
jottwith tslib and png support :)23:51
jottlbt: oh you have already something working?23:51
jottpush it to garage :)23:51
lbtnot yet23:51
lbtwork has been rather busy23:51
qwerty12_n800jott: wow, i'd love it :). all i really want is a real toolchain :)23:52
jottso many good ideas, so less time :)23:52
* lbt nods23:52
jottqwerty12_n800: well statically linking it would not hurt that much (with uclibc atleast)23:52
*** SDuensin has quit IRC23:52
qwerty12_n800jott: yeah, that's what I currently do :)23:52
jottnever had the leisure to make a proper toolchain :)23:53
lbthmm, what's the toolbar called in deblet?23:54
jotti wonder how fbui would run :)23:54
lbtit's gone :(23:54
jottnever tried it on any device afair...23:54
*** moontiger has quit IRC23:55
jottthough the concept of having all of this in the kernel is rather bizarre :)23:55
*** henrique has quit IRC23:55
*** caio1982 has quit IRC23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!