IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-02-14

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lcuk_3	thats ok as long as gizmo is the neighbours cat ;)	00:02
lcuk_3	beer or coffee?	00:03
GeneralAntilles	Beer, duh.	00:04
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lcuk_3	its a school night thou, my mummy said i cant have beer :(	00:04
GeneralAntilles	OK, a big salad bowl of ice cream.	00:04
GeneralAntilles	Yum.	00:04
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rm_you\|n800	wow	00:05
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lcuk_3	ice cream?	00:06
rm_you\|n800	LCARS is amazing	00:06
lcuk_3	its WINTER	00:06
GeneralAntilles	Ha	00:06
rm_you\|n800	lol	00:06
* lcuk_3 fills it with snow		00:06
GeneralAntilles	It's only in the mid-40s out.	00:06
rm_you\|n800	also:	00:06
lcuk_3	rm_you, its quite good isnt it	00:06
rm_you\|n800	check out my ip:	00:06
lcuk_3	charge your battery and you get a cylon on your screen	00:06
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rm_you\|n800	inet addr: xxx.xxx.93.0	00:07
rm_you\|n800	it ends in ZERO	00:07
rm_you\|n800	wtf	00:07
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GeneralAntilles	rm_you\|n800 haxed the internets!	00:08
rm_you\|n800	i didnt tthink that was possible... but it works!!!!!!!!!!	00:08
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rm_you\|n800	i sshed to it ssuccessfully	00:08
rm_you\|n800	wtf!	00:08
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rm_you\|n800	anyway... LCARS iconset will be tonight	00:09
rm_you\|n800	because of awesome	00:09
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lcuk_3	excellent	00:09
lcuk_3	hey, whilst you are here, the backlight thing you did is a kernel mod isnt it	00:09
rm_you\|n800	any idea how to make osso-statusbar-cpu look better?	00:09
maddler	rm_you\|n800: watch at your netmask... 255.255.0.0? :)	00:09
\|\|cw	sure 0 will work. normally you can connect to 0 even if ther eis no host on it and you'll get a response from the fastest system in the subnet	00:10
rm_you\|n800	lcuk_3: no	00:10
maddler	rm_you\|n800: LCARS ICONSET?! I WANT IT NOW!	00:10
maddler	:D	00:10
lcuk_3	ahhhh rm, thought it was	00:10
lcuk_3	its just linked and autoruns from maemo isnt it	00:10
rm_you\|n800	cw: right... thought it was reserved	00:10
rm_you\|n800	lcuk_3: ?	00:10
maddler	rm_you\|n800: it depends on the subnet you are usig...	00:11
maddler	using...	00:11
rm_you\|n800	lol	00:11
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lcuk_3	you just have the module running from the subsystem on the maemo desktop.... rather than a proper kernel module	00:11
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rm_you\|n800	it just seems really random	00:11
maddler	rm_you\|n800: if you are using a whole C class .0 will be your broadcast address :)	00:11
rm_you\|n800	lcuk_3: no?	00:11
rm_you\|n800	lcuk_3: it's just a normal statusbar plugin...	00:11
GeneralAntilles	osso-statusbar-cpu: make the colors more pastel, turn off the clock, install the big clock.	00:12
lcuk_3	which is more integrated into maemo than a normal application	00:12
rm_you\|n800	err... i guess?	00:12
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rm_you\|n800	yes	00:12
lcuk_3	lol	00:12
rm_you\|n800	i guess it is	00:12
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lcuk_3	which is why i got it confused with a kernel module - which is integrated into the main linux kernel	00:13
* lcuk_3 forgot about the middle ground		00:13
rm_you\|n800	...	00:13
* rm_you\|n800 feels confused		00:14
lcuk_3	to do this framebuffer stuff properly i need kernel module	00:14
rm_you\|n800	yes.	00:14
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lcuk_3	hence i was asking you because i thought yours was one... i was mistaken... oooh look, isnt LCARS nice	00:15
rm_you\|n800	lol	00:15
rm_you\|n800	yes :P	00:16
lcuk_3	did you install just the theme or everything (theme+extra helper programs)	00:16
lcuk_3	GeneralAntilles, are you still running it on yours?	00:16
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rm_you\|n800	i used their .install	00:17
rm_you\|n800	so, complete	00:17
lcuk_3	have you rebooted yet?	00:18
lcuk_3	you get sounds..	00:18
rm_you\|n800	yes	00:18
rm_you\|n800	i did,, and do ;p	00:18
rm_you\|n800	i have another project...	00:21
rm_you\|n800	and omg awesome...	00:21
rm_you\|n800	it's lcars related	00:22
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rm_you\|n800	you know the default lcars desktop?	00:22
rm_you\|n800	imagine the side bars are temp/lux meters	00:22
rm_you\|n800	and the center is a planet with definable color palettes	00:23
rm_you\|n800	that is generated with perlin noise and is zoomable	00:23
rm_you\|n800	and rotatable	00:24
rm_you\|n800	;p	00:24
GeneralAntilles	Haha	00:24
rm_you\|n800	the zooming process would even look like it does in ST	00:24
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_3, one has LCARS one has Echo.	00:24
rm_you\|n800	go find ken perlin's world applet for an example	00:25
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rm_you\|n800	http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demox/Planet.html	00:26
rm_you\|n800	how ridiculously awesome would that be	00:27
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mmr	hi everyonejust a quick q about x chat if anyone is there	00:30
mmr	everyone sleeping :(	00:31
rm_you\|n800	;/	00:31
mmr	aha	00:31
jott	just ask your question	00:31
mmr	ok	00:31
GeneralAntilles	DATA	00:32
mmr	is it possible to cut and paste	00:32
rm_you\|n800	yes	00:32
mmr	i can highlight the text but sadly	00:32
mmr	the keyboard does not show copy	00:32
\|\|cw	try the menu	00:32
rm_you\|n800	select the text then hit the lowest left button	00:32
GeneralAntilles	or tap'n'hold	00:32
rm_you\|n800	oh wait	00:33
rm_you\|n800	xchat autocopies	00:33
rm_you\|n800	just select and paste	00:33
GeneralAntilles	or that	00:33
mmr	thnks	00:34
mmr	just done it	00:34
rm_you\|n800	:P	00:34
mmr	sheesh i feel foolish	00:34
mmr	seeing as the generals online and i know he loves a fool ;)	00:34
mmr	can u recommend a rar and zip gui	00:34
rm_you\|n800	it's more obvious on other platforms, as iit also auto-deselects	00:34
rm_you\|n800	xarchiver	00:35
GeneralAntilles	Does xterm count? :P	00:35
rm_you\|n800	works well	00:35
mmr	xterm or xarchiver	00:35
rm_you\|n800	i may have thhe deb, but google should find it	00:35
mmr	oh ok	00:35
mmr	ill check	00:35
rm_you\|n800	xarchiver	00:35
mmr	just out of interest ive been running mplayer and am absolutely amazed at what it plays	00:36
mmr	literally everything	00:36
* GeneralAntilles dreams of 720p.		00:36
mmr	was pleasently suprised	00:36
mmr	alright	00:36
rm_you\|n800	lol	00:36
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mmr	but twas a shock to me	00:36
rm_you\|n800	http://xarchive.garage.maemo.org/	00:36
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mmr	after seeing all the bitchingin the forums	00:36
mmr	plays everyting ive thrown it	00:37
GeneralAntilles	Yes, ITT is filled with vitriolic hyperbole.	00:37
mmr	lol	00:37
mmr	hmmm	00:37
lardman	pH5\|N810: DevInitMBX looks interesting and complete and actually probably quite easy to decipher	00:37
rm_you\|n800	try it with bluetooth->a2dp yet? :P	00:37
mmr	noooo	00:37
mmr	im not so greedy	00:37
rm_you\|n800	lol	00:37
rm_you\|n800	it works great!	00:38
rm_you\|n800	:P	00:38
mmr	would take up too much cpu	00:38
rm_you\|n800	a2dp is what first got me intoo maemo	00:38
mmr	im trying to get windows share working	00:38
rm_you\|n800	errr .. actually it isnt horrible	00:38
mmr	someone said its automatic on os2008	00:39
mmr	but hasnt been so for me	00:39
rm_you\|n800	yes	00:39
rm_you\|n800	they need to be unpassworded	00:39
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\|tbb\|	a2dp works great?	00:39
mmr	yup so it is	00:39
mmr	i dunno	00:39
rm_you\|n800	tbb: fairly, last time i checked	00:39
mmr	sould it just pick up the share	00:39
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rm_you\|n800	with my patched mpllayer, cpuscale hack, and video :P	00:40
lcuk_3	firewall on windows device could be blocking things..	00:40
mmr	nope it works between to windows machines	00:40
mmr	two	00:40
lcuk_3	on mine ive parted the wall between my machines	00:40
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* lcuk_3 feels like moses		00:40
mmr	ahh	00:41
mmr	that would be the water surely	00:41
\|tbb\|	rm_you where to get it, is there a wiki	00:41
lcuk_3	new/different network interface	00:41
mmr	and now whats with the patched mplayer	00:41
mmr	or cpuscale	00:41
pH5\|N810	lardman: good, I didn't look at that one yet	00:41
mmr	will tht oveclock the cpu	00:41
mmr	surely not	00:42
mmr	oh damn the other halfs calling	00:42
mmr	:(	00:42
mmr	gnight all	00:42
mmr	and thanx	00:42
lcuk_3	dont complain its valentines soon	00:42
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mmr	yup	00:42
mmr	i know	00:42
pH5\|N810	I've started with the clock setup, but this is completely different on 2420	00:42
mmr	buuut	00:42
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mmr	cant afford anythingfancy	00:43
pH5\|N810	and 2430	00:43
mmr	just bought the n800	00:43
* mmr sighs		00:43
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lcuk_3	im sure having you without head pressed to computer screen would be good, now go before she hits you over head with frying pan	00:43
mmr	owww	00:43
mmr	gotcha over and out	00:43
lcuk_3	gnite, and tell her ill be round at about 11am tomorrow ;)	00:44
lardman	pH5\|N810: I think my following the code from init_module put me off when it started jumping all round the place	00:44
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lardman	pH5\|N810: But there are certainly functions which seem to be reasonably cleanly implemented (i.e. the compiler hasn't done wierd things to them) :)	00:45
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pH5\|N810	lardman: ok. do you see where from the function that calls Dev...MBX	00:48
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lcuk_3	have you got a disassembly of it now	00:48
pH5\|N810	uh, damn n810 keyboard	00:49
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lardman	you mean which function calls it?	00:49
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pH5\|N810	I mean do you know where the registering function is called from?	00:50
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pH5\|N810	it's calles DevMBXRegister or similar	00:50
pH5\|N810	yes.	00:50
rm_you\|n800	err, theres a thread on ITT about a2dp... i link to my mplayer somewheere around page 2	00:50
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lardman	pH5\|N810: I will have a look-see	00:50
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rm_you\|n800	you prolly want to just read the whole thing	00:51
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rm_you\|n800	... is that a server split? :/	00:51
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pH5\|N810	lardman: thanks. could you mail me your notes so I can fill in some blanks then? I'll do the same tomorrow when I get to them.	00:52
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lardman	pH5\|N810: DevInitMBX or MBXRegisterDevice?	00:53
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pH5\|N810	I'll happily take whatever you have ;)	00:54
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pH5\|N810	I still lack good disassembling tools that automate the symbol and string table lookup properly...	00:54
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synth_ian	rm_you: i saw was reading the log, and saw your idea for a planet-generating desktop applet, matching the LCARS default background. i had to log in to answer to your question, "how ridiculously awesome would that be"... that would be very ridiculously awesome. glad you like LCARS :)	00:55
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pH5\|N810	splitfest?	00:55
lardman	Well MBXRegisterDevice calls MBXIsr then DevInitMBX and then optionally DevDeInitMBX and then GetDevSysPhyBaseMBX	00:56
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pH5\|N810	really? to me it looks like it just registers the function pointers in some structure (struct device?)	00:58
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pH5\|N810	and I couldn't find where MBXRegisterdevice is called from.	00:59
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lardman	ah indeed, my misread of my note	00:59
rm_you\|n800	synth_ian: lol yes	00:59
lardman	saves addresses of the functions	00:59
rm_you\|n800	i was already working on the perlin noise stuff for an mmo project... and it should be feasible.	01:00
rm_you\|n800	synth_ian: did you see the demo i want to replicate? :P	01:00
synth_ian	yeah, i did :D	01:01
jott	pH5\|N810: the MBXRegisterDevice fp is set in SysInitialise	01:01
lardman	ah init_module calls sysinitialise (name?) which then eventually calls MBXRegisterDevice	01:01
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pH5\|N810	ok, I'll look at this again tomorrow. Although I don't quite like how this distracts me from playing with the DSP.	01:01
lardman	:)	01:02
pH5\|N810	jott: cool, thanks.	01:02
rm_you\|n800	synth_ian: i'll keep you posted.	01:02
lardman	pH5\|N810: Did you see my post about framebuffer access, though you're on an n810 atm so not really applicable	01:02
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lardman	I must work out how to do framebuffer access from the n8x0 at some point	01:02
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pH5\|N810	yes I saw. is there a function in the dsp kernel to map memory ranges?	01:03
johnx	lardman, cat foo.jpg > /dev/fb0 doesn't work? :D	01:03
jott	johnx: from the dsp not direct fb access ;)	01:04
lardman	johnx: harder opn the dsp ;)	01:04
johnx	aaah... :)	01:04
pH5\|N810	I haven't really understood how the dsp accesses extmem at all. does it have its own mmu?	01:04
lardman	pH5\|N810: you have to use a linker command file, which the dsp_dld arm-side binary uses to setup the memory mapping	01:04
lardman	pH5\|N810: I thought they shared one, but I may be wrong	01:05
lardman	"may well be wrong" even :)	01:05
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jott	hmm ok the MBXRegisterDevice fp is stored in gpsSysData as it seems	01:06
jott	hmm	01:06
lcuk_3	how big is the framebuffer inside the 2420, or does it hold a buffer on system memory?	01:07
lardman	buffer in system memory which is flushed to the device afaiu	01:08
pH5\|N810	does anybody know what offset 0x300 to OMAP2_CM_BASE is on omap2430? I keep getting tangled in the interdependent include files of the kernel	01:08
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lcuk_3	so, best scenario you are gonna have to malloc an area, assign it to the powervr, throw some triangles in. blit the first area onto omapfb memory and then tell the lcd to go?	01:10
\|tbb\|	rm_you have you tried youtube tablet-viewer?	01:10
lardman	lcuk_3: pretty much	01:10
lcuk_3	i thought it was an internal to 2420 buffer. actual memory onchip. that way we flush from 2420 to our frame device	01:10
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lcuk_3	(that being a reasonable reason why it can only run 640*480	01:11
lardman	powervr has internal memory, but we presumably map some memory from that to sdram, we'd then need to blit that to the framebuffer in sdram, and that is flushed to the lcd controller	01:11
lardman	the size limitation is due to the bandwidth of the sdram->lcd controller link	01:12
lcuk_3	well if we were just mapping the memory from cpu to main memory, why couldnt we just give it the mmapped address of the actual omapfb?	01:12
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lcuk_3	save a whole layer of copying	01:12
lardman	might work, I've no idea	01:12
lcuk_3	but its all trivial until we get deeper in..	01:13
lcuk_3	im just looking at the omapfb at the momentwhich is why im askin..	01:13
lardman	ah ok, well yes that does sound reasonable	01:13
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pH5\|N810	good night	01:16
lardman	night	01:16
lcuk_3	nite pH5\|N810	01:16
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lardman	lcuk_3: There's a function called HostUnmapFrmBufMemFromUserSpace	01:21
lcuk_3	:)	01:22
lcuk_3	how far through the exam are you?	01:22
lardman	Just randomly browsing atm, I should go back to what I was doing - following from init_module; I was about 3 functions in	01:23
lardman	trying to turn asm into intelligible structure is interesting	01:24
lcuk_3	i keep trying the same with the omapfb	01:24
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lcuk_3	tho im doing it from c..	01:25
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lcuk_3	its a good way for me to get to know the system	01:25
lcuk_3	i might try asm soon	01:25
lardman	hmm, I wouldn't bother unless you have to	01:25
lardman	:)	01:26
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lcuk_3	i do :) i want single bitplane turbo graphics	01:26
lardman	ah, well speed optimisation is one of those "have to" moments	01:26
lcuk_3	why send 16 bits per pixel when 1 will do	01:26
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lardman	have you looked at ssvb's mplayer code? He changes the fb format there	01:27
lcuk_3	yes - hes gone through a few ins and outs with it all	01:27
lcuk_3	ive got various snippets and notes and other stuff	01:27
johnx	mmm 1bit graphics...super fast fullscreen gameboy emulation :D	01:28
lcuk_3	im just getting the memory layouts for the required structs sorted without becoming a kernel mod	01:28
Navi	:D	01:28
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lcuk_3	john, gameboy was just another 2bit handheld...	01:28
lardman	bed time for mee too, see you chaps tomorrow	01:28
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johnx	ah, well you could still simulate 2bit with dithering	01:29
ryoohki	what's the max sd card for the n800? can i put two 16gb sdhc cards into it?	01:29
lcuk_3	lol - 2bit is another option	01:29
lcuk_3	thats still 8x less data travelling over the memory->LCD link	01:29
johnx	ryoohki, yes. or two 32GB SDHC cards when they come out.	01:30
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jott	sdl 8bit games would also get a nice boost when directly using an lcd format :)	01:30
Navi	You know what would be fun?	01:31
Navi	Cave Story	01:31
johnx	progress = being able to do 8-bit graphics again ... heh	01:31
jott	johnx: hehe indeed ;)	01:31
lcuk_3	if lower colors are required to get speed then whats the problem?	01:32
johnx	I remember getting my first 16MB graphics card and thinking "I'll never have to trade resolution and speed for color depth ever again!"	01:32
Navi	:D	01:32
jott	no problem, but still funny when you remember the old times ;)	01:32
lcuk_3	i wrote a dithering function for character blocks on the spectrum. i remember thinking i could make any color i wanted	01:33
johnx	lots of desktop/laptop LCDs still do dithering...	01:33
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lcuk_3	this one does doesnt it	01:34
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chong-	anyone know what causes the flasher program to exit with the following when updating to os2008 on a n800: Version of 'sw-release': <no version>	01:49
GeneralAntilles	What are you running?	01:50
chong-	chong@legolas:~/Desktop$ uname -a	01:50
chong-	Linux legolas 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Tue Dec 18 08:02:57 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux	01:50
chong-	ubuntu gutsy	01:50
chong-	i've tried the applicable troubleshooting listed on the wiki	01:51
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GeneralAntilles	What flasher command are you running?	01:51
chong-	mounting usbfs, patching the flasher etc...	01:51
chong-	GeneralAntilles, i'm following the instructions here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/	01:51
chong-	for the N800	01:51
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GeneralAntilles	You make sure you included -F ?	01:52
ryoohki	johnx: how come people talk about needing special software to access sdhc on the n800?	01:52
chong-	i copied and pasted the command so that doesn't include -F only -f	01:52
GeneralAntilles	ryoohki, who?	01:52
GeneralAntilles	./flasher-2.0 -F <firmware> -f -R	01:53
GeneralAntilles	run that.	01:53
johnx	ryoohki, you just need the latest OS2007 or any OS2008	01:53
GeneralAntilles	well, 3.0	01:53
chong-	GeneralAntilles, that's doing the trick	01:54
GeneralAntilles	You forgot -F	01:54
chong-	yup	01:54
chong-	thanks	01:54
GeneralAntilles	Which points to the FIASCO image. ;)	01:54
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chong-	now to see if os2008 crashes my phone during pairing :x	01:56
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GeneralAntilles	<_< crappy phone.	01:57
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chong-	worked this time	01:59
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chong-	phone really doesnt like using bt and wifi at the same time though	01:59
jott	hm does anyone actually know of a plug/adapter that fits onto the n810 serial port?	02:00
Navi	bt and wifi is really draining	02:00
Navi	s/is/are/	02:00
infobot	Navi meant: bt and wifi are really draining	02:00
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chong-	Navi, they also run in the same part of the spectrum	02:01
chong-	i can't use my bt headset when my phone is connected to an access point	02:01
GeneralAntilles	jott, gotta build one.	02:03
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\|tbb\|	night all	02:03
ryoohki	GeneralAntilles: i have two 16gb sdhc cards for my n800 os2008 and was unsure if they would work. johnx said they would work: "15:30 < johnx> ryoohki, yes. or two 32GB SDHC cards when they come out."	02:04
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GeneralAntilles	or two 64GB card	02:04
GeneralAntilles	or 128GB	02:04
GeneralAntilles	or 256GB :D	02:04
derf	The SDHC standard maxes out at 32GB.	02:05
ryoohki	johnx: so if i flash with the latest os2008( not sure what the version number is) then sdhc will work and there should be no unpleasant surprises	02:05
GeneralAntilles	SDHC maxes at 2048GB	02:05
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johnx	ryoohki, that's correct. if you're really worried about it poke at internettablettalk.com/forums and look at what cards people are using	02:06
GeneralAntilles	ryoohki, SDHC has been in OS2007 for a while.	02:06
derf	I swear I remember reading 32, but Wikipedia now agrees with you.	02:08
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johnx	It would have been pretty ridiculous of them to break backwards compatibility with SD and not have it fixed for at least a few years...	02:10
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Navi	haha, someone edited the wiki to agree with him	02:19
Navi	it's a conspiracy >:3	02:20
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GeneralAntilles	Be nice if somebody could actually cite it either way	02:28
GeneralAntilles	but it would be incredibly stupid of them to have only moved the bar up to 32GB	02:28
* johnx googles		02:30
Navi	google says 32	02:31
Navi	32 is still quite a ways up from 2 and barely working 4	02:32
johnx	yeah, I see 32GB as well from sandisk and kingston	02:32
GeneralAntilles	32gb released	02:32
GeneralAntilles	But that's not indicating the limit of the spec.	02:32
Navi	I was reading from here http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Secure-Digital-High-Capacity-(SDHC)-Explained.htm	02:32
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I'm reading their "specifications" PDFs	02:32
johnx	I wonder if they're just planning to switch filesystems for the 64GB cards or the whole electrical interface O_o	02:33
Navi	the current version of the specification is 32 max	02:33
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johnx	wow...well that was fantasically short sighted	02:35
* johnx shakes head		02:35
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GeneralAntilles	Is it just a filesystem issue?	02:36
jott	hey if the consortium made up something that would last too long the consortium would loose its purpose ... it's just to secure the own job ;)	02:37
cancerbero	hello. everybody	02:37
johnx	FAT32 supports up to 2048GB I thought...	02:37
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Navi	They get monies for spec revisions	02:38
cancerbero	with the n810 can read and create files .doc nd .xls??	02:38
Navi	With the appropriate software, yes	02:39
johnx	cancerbero, gnumeric is out already (which can work with .xls files) and abiword (which can read .doc) is in semi-closed beta	02:39
Navi	Heh	02:40
Navi	The more I look into the tablets	02:40
Navi	the more I want to send a "fuck you" to the hildon interface	02:40
johnx	GeneralAntilles, reading "Physical Layer Simplified Specificatio Ver2.00" it looks like they might actually need to make some kind of change to the physical spec to support more than 32GB cards ... but hopefully it will just be a driver thing	02:40
johnx	Navi, what is it this time? :)	02:41
Navi	I'm not a fan of it	02:41
johnx	yeah...I really don't see why more people don't just rip off Palm whole-sale	02:42
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GeneralAntilles	Palm sucks. <_<	02:43
cancerbero	thanks	02:43
johnx	GeneralAntilles, the interface is nice for lots of stuff	02:43
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GeneralAntilles	For PIM, basically.	02:43
johnx	did you ever own a Palm OS device?	02:43
Navi	Heh	02:43
Navi	wrong question.	02:44
GeneralAntilles	But doing anything remotely complex on Palm was always a pain for me.	02:44
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, 3.	02:44
Navi	Huh	02:44
johnx	like name one thing that was harder on palm and is actually easier in maemo?	02:44
Navi	s\|Huh	02:44
Navi	damn it	02:45
Navi	Thumbing around	02:45
GeneralAntilles	Web browsing.	02:45
Navi	typing medium length emails	02:45
GeneralAntilles	Multitasking. :P	02:45
Navi	Running programs	02:45
johnx	Navi, the "tap the icon" bit was too hard?	02:45
jott	enjoying a high resolution display	02:45
jott	:)	02:45
* jott pokes at 160x160 pixels :)		02:46
johnx	right, all are pretty trivial problems...if someone just ripped off palm with the intention of fixing a couple little things the world would be a better place	02:46
Navi	johnx, in different cases, my thumb was too big for different parts of the software interface	02:46
GeneralAntilles	If you're gonna rip off	02:46
GeneralAntilles	rip off Newton	02:46
Navi	Beat up Martin	02:47
jott	GeneralAntilles: just run einstein :)	02:47
Navi	s\|Beat\|eat\|	02:47
GeneralAntilles	Blew	02:47
Navi	"Eat up Martha"	02:47
Navi	:3	02:47
johnx	eh?	02:47
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GeneralAntilles	Simpsons dig at the Newton.	02:48
Navi	That's what I think of when someone mentions the newton	02:48
johnx	anyways, emulators are a "head in the sand" approach to things	02:48
Navi	http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/iPhone%20Newton%20Screen.jpg	02:48
johnx	"I'll just hide here while someone else works out the way forward" then you take your head out of the sand and see that things got worse...	02:48
johnx	heh	02:48
* johnx really did want to try the newton but never got a chance		02:49
johnx	oh, GeneralAntilles it looks like the current physical layer spec for SDHC really does say 32GB for now O_o	02:49
GeneralAntilles	Weirdness.	02:49
johnx	I'm pretty sure it's something that can be addressed by drivers though	02:49
Navi	it'll be boosted when 32GB SDHC become standardized	02:50
johnx	well they need to hurry the *(&$ up then	02:50
Navi	then the corporations get to go, "Oh yay, the saps bought our expensive SD cards... let's make more even more expensive!"	02:50
johnx	I assume it's so that people have to buy new cameras and mp3 players actually	02:51
Navi	pfft	02:51
Navi	Flash carts for the DS wasn't like that.	02:51
Navi	SDHC support through firmware update	02:51
johnx	right, for people who aren't trying to milk all the money out of you...	02:52
Navi	I buy my crap from Nokia, I'm used to getting milked :3	02:52
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*** phrik is now known as Navi		02:54
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johnx	if you grab the PDF here: http://www.sdcard.org/about/memory_card/pls and turn to page 98 you get to see that C_SIZE+1 * 512KB = memory capacity but the upper 6bits of C_SIZE are currently undefined so 32GB is the max	02:54
johnx	neat, huh?	02:54
jott	johnx: then go and fix wikipedia ;)	02:55
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Navi	wikipedia cannot be fixed	02:55
Navi	it's inherently flawed	02:55
johnx	to me it reads as "we could support more right now but we decided not to."	02:55
johnx	Navi, the world waits for your better alternative...	02:55
Navi	SkyNet	02:55
jott	johnx: see me remark above ;p	02:55
jott	my	02:55
Navi	and you read it right	02:55
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Navi	ls	02:56
Navi	damn it	02:56
johnx	ls: command not found. Go away!	02:57
jott	alias ls=sl	02:58
GeneralAntilles	Ha	02:58
Navi	s/it/you/	02:58
infobot	Navi meant: damn you	02:58
johnx	ahaha	02:59
Navi	s/"s/it/you/"/whore/	02:59
Navi	aw, doesn't work	02:59
* jott had to install sl again and see if it still works :)		03:00
Navi	at least I haven't been using dir.	03:01
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* jott packages sl for os2008 ;)		03:01
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jott	http://sse2.net/sl_3.03-15_armel.deb ;>	03:04
ligerzero03	installing java?	03:05
jott	?	03:05
Navi	jott, that was fast.	03:05
johnx	ligerzero03, I'm not	03:05
ligerzero03	lol	03:05
ligerzero03	how do you?	03:05
jott	i am ;)	03:05
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johnx	ligerzero03, for development or to run a specific program?	03:06
jott	ligerzero03: https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page	03:06
jott	Navi: it's just a very trivial command line tool to annoy people who mistype ;)	03:07
Navi	:P	03:07
Navi	jott, you totally sidetracked me	03:09
jott	haha ;)	03:09
Navi	my usb cable is giving out	03:09
johnx	maybe it's just coiled too tightly and the data is falling off on the bends? :P	03:10
ligerzero03	lol	03:11
ligerzero03	nah it's just tired of the tight corners	03:11
johnx	also: don't shake hard drives or all the data will fall off.	03:11
jott	or it always wanted to be a parallel cable and has it's coming out now ;)	03:11
Navi	:P	03:11
johnx	as geeks, it's important for us to spread misinformation about technology	03:12
GeneralAntilles	Haha	03:12
GeneralAntilles	Amen, johnx!	03:12
GeneralAntilles	Wouldn't want to be out of a job.	03:12
Navi	luls	03:12
johnx	do you really think car mechanics all tell the truth?	03:12
ligerzero03	you forget to format a drive you have to take your hard drive to the laundromat and put your hard drive in for dry cleaning.	03:12
glass	not about the geeky bits, sw upgrade is very serious business on a car ;)	03:13
lcuk_3	the problem is computers CAN be tough. now cars have computers even the mechanics are beginning to come to us	03:13
lcuk_3	WORLD DOMINATION	03:13
egsavage	I'm about to try to install OS2008 HE on my N770 with a 2GB Mobile MMC card and am wondering... Which is the _best_ guide on doing that now? I ran across a couple guides on the web but am not sure which is considered the best.	03:13
johnx	lcuk_3, have you seen what an ECU looked like, circa 1982 or so? craziness!	03:13
GeneralAntilles	He's got OS2008HE!	03:13
GeneralAntilles	MOB HIM!	03:13
johnx	egsavage, 2007HE I assume?	03:14
egsavage	oh, did I mistype? ;-)	03:14
Navi	;-)	03:14
egsavage	2007HE, sorry ;-)	03:14
egsavage	wish i had 2008	03:14
egsavage	freudian slip	03:14
johnx	it'd be pretty heavy on a 770	03:14
lcuk_3	is it just a full recompile, or is it fixing the closed source bits as well?	03:14
Navi	It's sexiness is overwhelming	03:14
Navi	s/It's/Its	03:15
GeneralAntilles	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw	03:15
GeneralAntilles	That creeps me out.	03:15
Navi	Too used to not using the last forward slash	03:15
egsavage	so which guide is best for getting a dual boot going for a 2GB M-MMC card on a N770?	03:15
lcuk_3	johnx, not a specific model but its like the "driver board" on a printer. they are just black boxen to mechanics	03:15
Navi	Oh yeah, I've seen that	03:15
GeneralAntilles	4:00	03:16
johnx	lcuk_3, well, they're embedded electronics. they're pretty much a blackbox to anyone...I think the only thing anyone cares about them for is what trouble codes they're emitting	03:16
GeneralAntilles	Well, or haxing for more HP.	03:17
jott	johnx: it's alot of reverse-engineering to do that ;)	03:17
johnx	GeneralAntilles, that is an awesome video	03:17
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egsavage	is this one considered current? http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/	03:18
jott	johnx: the guy did alot of funny stuff	03:18
jott	http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/	03:19
johnx	that guy is doing some really neat stuff	03:19
jott	the "Low-Cost Multi-point Interactive Whiteboards Using the Wiimote" is also nice	03:19
GeneralAntilles	There's so much untapped potential with the Wii.	03:20
jott	it's on my todo list on things to build ;)	03:20
johnx	GeneralAntilles, and they're closer to easy-homebrew on the console itself as well :D	03:21
jott	hehe well all the stuff he did does not even need a wii ;)	03:21
jott	just a wiimote	03:21
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GeneralAntilles	Well, sure, but the Wii made it cheap and easy to find.	03:21
jott	indeed	03:21
GeneralAntilles	Wish there were more gutsy game developers to take advantage of it.	03:22
lcuk_3	the wiimote was invented with one purpose. light sabre. now i have that, my gaming experience is complete	03:24
GeneralAntilles	Haha	03:25
* lcuk_3 wears his jedi cloak when playing		03:25
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_3, did you ever get an opportunity to try one of those LED lightsabers?	03:25
GeneralAntilles	http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/warfare/69de/	03:25
lcuk_3	yes ive got my proper luke skywalker one and ive got a wii light sword	03:25
lcuk_3	the lightsword though impears the signal to the wii	03:26
lcuk_3	it is defective :\|	03:26
GeneralAntilles	My friends and I used to go downtown and duel with them in high school.	03:26
lcuk_3	i faught darth vader the other night at a great party	03:26
GeneralAntilles	It's too bad they're not very durable.	03:27
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lcuk_3	http://www.play.com/Games/Wii/4-/3517983/Wii-Light-Sword/Product.html	03:27
lcuk_3	yer, the vader one broke...	03:27
jott	hehe what a crap ;)	03:28
lcuk_3	the most random thing about that night was the fact darth vader was also the barman for part of the evening	03:28
GeneralAntilles	I ended up taking mine apart to repair the LEDs about a half-dozen times.	03:28
jott	(the design flaw)	03:28
lcuk_3	you are not a true jedi until you can build (or fix) your own sabre	03:28
lcuk_3	GeneralAntilles, read the review on that play.com link i gave, thats the problem i had	03:29
ryoohki	anyone know why nokia wants your product ID( wlan mac address) for the os2008 download?	03:30
GeneralAntilles	I was contemplating filling it with resin or something	03:30
johnx	omg, i think I finally got webkit-gtk to build O_o	03:30
GeneralAntilles	but it would just mess up the balance.	03:30
GeneralAntilles	Send it here!	03:30
jott	johnx: congratulation :p	03:30
johnx	GeneralAntilles, some libs compiled for zaurus? :P	03:30
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lcuk_3	just put a proper sabre inside it	03:30
* jott should svn up && make the webkit-gtk too		03:31
GeneralAntilles	Where's my EAL Webkit?	03:31
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I have no real interested in EAL...	03:31
johnx	as much as people knock autotools it worked pretty much out of the box when I switched from qmake to autotools	03:31
jott	johnx: well qmake for building webkit-gtk is not maintained anymore :)	03:32
jott	the qt build runs nice with qmake :>	03:32
johnx	yeah, I was trying to not have to do too much work in OE, making a new .bb and all...but using autotools turned out to be less work	03:33
Navi	Luls	03:33
jott	hehe yeah.. gtk should be removed from the qmake buildsystem all along to prevent confusion and strange errors	03:35
jott	or switch everything to cmake ;>	03:35
acydlord	have you guys read up about the new internet freedom preservation act yet?	03:35
johnx	I read the /. summary	03:35
Navi	Freedom sucks	03:35
tank-man	what is better than freedom?	03:36
Navi	Slavery	03:36
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johnx	Navi, can I have a temporary feeling of security in return for my future freedom and privacy?	03:36
johnx	that sounds like a good trade to me...	03:36
tank-man	i'm ok with slavery, i buy made in china all the time	03:36
acydlord	you forgot liberty	03:36
Navi	johnx, yes, you can.	03:36
johnx	woo!	03:37
* Navi takes away johnx's freedom and privacy		03:37
* Navi gives johnx a glock in return		03:37
acydlord	there is something unnerving with the fact that my local representative is "representative flake"	03:37
GeneralAntilles	Ew Glock.	03:38
johnx	representative flake: never more than one standard deviation away from the average flake!	03:38
Navi	Warzone 2100 any fun?	03:38
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	03:38
Navi	I don't trust GeneralAntilles	03:38
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Navi	He's a general, after all.	03:38
acydlord	he could be a generalization	03:39
GeneralAntilles	Mine isn't a political position.	03:39
Navi	still reason enough to cast doubt	03:40
* GeneralAntilles throws doubt at Navi.		03:40
* Navi catches doubt		03:40
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* Navi sneases		03:40
* acydlord tries to cast doubt but doesnt have enough SP		03:40
Navi	s/sneases/sneezes/	03:41
johnx	mmm...new android sdk	03:41
Navi	cool	03:41
jott	johnx: with the new ui?	03:41
johnx	looks like :)	03:41
Navi	I wonder how Google's going to stick their ads on	03:41
jott	and finally the sources? ;)	03:41
johnx	haven't looked yet but I think no sources for now	03:42
jott	haha just kidding "open" means "closed" where as "closed" means "patented" ;)	03:42
Navi	closed open source	03:42
Navi	s/closed open/patented closed/	03:42
infobot	Navi meant: patented closed source	03:42
johnx	jott, they have committed to opening all (most?) under the apache license	03:43
jott	johnx: i know.. well we still have to see what the commitment is worth	03:43
johnx	I'm willing to be we'll see all of the android source before we see all the maemo source	03:44
jott	;)	03:44
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jott	well quim made it clear that they have no intention of releasing anything..	03:45
GeneralAntilles	Is never before never?	03:45
jott	ever ;)	03:45
Navi	s/never/Duke Nukem Forever/g	03:46
johnx	yeah...I'm still deciding on what to do in terms of Debian on the N800...whether to try and use the parts of hildon that are open or not bother at all and just do xfce or matchbox or something :/	03:46
lcuk_3	s/never/duke nukem forever on the hud of my flying car/g	03:46
Navi	lcuk_3, cannot find pattern	03:47
jott	well it would be more debian if all closed parts would be killed :)	03:47
Navi	Ha	03:47
Navi	I'd like the hildon keyboard	03:47
Navi	that's the only part of it that I like	03:47
johnx	Navi, that is pretty nice..I have mixed feelings about sapwood	03:48
* jott pokes into the dsme blob		03:48
* GeneralAntilles watches the blob poke back.		03:48
* jott evades		03:48
Navi	the rest should go the debian netinstall way	03:49
johnx	jott, do you have a feeling for how much of the power management needs specific poking of dsme to work and how much just works automagically?	03:49
jott	hm i would guess one could get quite alot working without dsme	03:50
johnx	you mean without it running at all?	03:50
jott	i hope so..	03:50
Navi	People are talking too much, I can't keep up with conversations	03:50
johnx	well battery charging needs bme and for some reason I thought bme needed dsme	03:50
johnx	maybe I misunderstood	03:51
jott	but not sure about this.. we should look into the dsme binary	03:51
jott	maybe it's just some kernel methods/ioctls	03:51
johnx	if we try and kill off dsme I think we'll need to turn off watchdog-timeout-reboot	03:51
johnx	someone on maemo devel list said that dsme wouldn't be that hard to replace	03:52
jott	yeah in the end the watchdog will only harm..	03:52
johnx	what I don't understand is if dsme causes dvfs stuff to take place or whether the kernel just handles it behind the scenes	03:55
jott	hmm atleast dsme has debug symbols in it	03:56
johnx	oh, that's nice	03:56
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jott	hm so everthing goes through the libstartup that in turn loads other modules?!	03:58
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jott	hmm most of the modules look quite trivial	04:04
jott	they just seem to be some wrapper around sysfs ;)	04:06
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johnx	O_o	04:07
johnx	well I know brightness has controls in sysfs	04:07
johnx	if I can do this in a couple sh scripts I'll be grinning for days	04:08
jott	hehe	04:08
jott	libinactivity-blank.so seems to handle brightness	04:09
johnx	there's a patch to bring dpms into xomap	04:09
johnx	brightness is pretty much a solved problem I think	04:09
jott	more or less, yeah	04:10
jott	still the module also uses /dev/fb0 :>	04:11
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jott	besides /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level	04:11
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johnx	well there's the rtc	04:13
jott	i suppose you can disable the lcd via /dev/fb0 ioctl stuff, right?	04:15
jott	(that should be easy to find out as the kernel parts are open ;-)	04:15
johnx	and so is the x server (thank god!) O_o	04:15
johnx	found the temp sensor in sys	04:16
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johnx	I think it just outputs Celsius with a couple extra digits tacked on	04:16
johnx	maybe if we just ignore dsme it will go away :D	04:16
jott	johnx: for some little infos: strings /mnt/initfs/usr/lib/dsme/*.so	04:17
jott	(grep sys e.g. ;-)	04:17
johnx	that's what I'm reading :D	04:17
johnx	one term for reading strings, one for poking at sysfs	04:18
* jott still wonders what the benefit of this whole dsme system is :P		04:20
johnx	the cynic in me says obfuscation	04:20
johnx	also, keeping binary, proprietary stuff out of the kernel	04:21
jott	yeah well in the end it's not that much proprietary stuff in there	04:21
jott	just some infrastructure and obfuscation ;)	04:21
johnx	I'm still fuzzy on how bme interacts with the whole mess	04:22
johnx	it definitely links to libdsme.so.0.1.0...	04:22
jott	libdsme is used for the socket communication	04:22
jott	that in turn is just the dsme	04:22
jott	that loads the libs in the initfs	04:22
jott	atleast thats what i guess	04:22
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* johnx reads past articles on mailing list		04:27
johnx	people agree that bme seems to be the hard part...but don't really say how much stuff is in bme to begin with	04:28
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jott	yeah hard to tell.. a quit objdump is not as easy to parse as the dsme stuff ;)	04:28
jott	s/quit/quick/	04:28
infobot	jott meant: yeah hard to tell.. a quick objdump is not as easy to parse as the dsme stuff ;)	04:28
johnx	OT: I'm really surprised that the 770 hasn't spawned even one real alternative distro while each zaurus had maybe half a dozen in their day	04:31
GeneralAntilles	johnx, community size?	04:32
johnx	I wonder if it's because Nokia's Maemo/ITOS was actually good enough or what...	04:32
johnx	GeneralAntilles, hmm...maybe	04:32
GeneralAntilles	Or ITOS is actually OK, too.	04:32
jott	it's not size that matters :P	04:32
johnx	maybe a device without a keyboard just doesn't draw the hardcore Linux crowds	04:33
GeneralAntilles	A bit of both sounds like a safe answer.	04:33
Tak	itos is pretty nice for the most part	04:35
johnx	Tak, it really is, for the most part	04:36
Tak	anybody know how to keep the opera backend from re-rendering 10x before a page loads?	04:36
GeneralAntilles	Is there a setting for delay in the config file?	04:36
Tak	I didn't see one - I'm trying to search ITT, but I'm on the tablet...	04:37
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GeneralAntilles	Been a long time since I used Opera	04:40
* Tak nods		04:41
jott	i hope we can get rid of firefox in the near future..	04:41
johnx	jott, me too O_o	04:41
GeneralAntilles	What Firefox? :P	04:41
Tak	I remember seeing a hack ages ago	04:41
jott	gecko	04:41
jott	what ever ;)	04:41
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jott	this bulky thing with the bulky slow browsers using it ;)	04:41
johnx	epiphany-webkit works so well on the tablet in debian...google maps is actually usable	04:41
Tak	on the pc side, ff3 is pretty snappy	04:42
Navi	I suppose	04:42
Navi	1.9 is an improvement on 1.8	04:42
jott	if they would not use gtk i would might even use it on my desktop ;)	04:43
Tak	johnx: what's all working in debian now?	04:43
Tak	hardware-wise	04:43
johnx	Tak, everything but sound output (which might be close)	04:43
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GeneralAntilles	MicroB is 1.9	04:43
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Navi	which is nice... Gecko's been getting slower since forever	04:43
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Navi	GeneralAntilles, I know	04:43
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johnx	and sometimes hardware buttons don't work until you restart the x server...	04:44
Tak	that's killer - anybody using it on 770?	04:44
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Navi	Unfortunately, it doesn't match webkit in terms of size and speed	04:44
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johnx	Tak, debian? b0unc3 has at least tested it, but I haven't heard from anyone else :/	04:44
johnx	I'd actually like to get my hands on a 770 to test on, but I can't really justify the purchase right now	04:45
Tak	I see - what about power management?	04:45
johnx	well, actually jott and I are looking at that right now :P	04:45
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Navi	If I wanted an IT right _now_, I could get a 770	04:46
Navi	:(	04:46
GeneralAntilles	Ew gross	04:46
GeneralAntilles	Don't do it!	04:46
Navi	But I must submit to peer pressure and listen to GeneralAntilles	04:46
johnx	still looks like $100 on ebay :/	04:47
Navi	it is	04:47
Navi	amazon too, I believe	04:47
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Navi	hrm	04:47
jott	party time ;>	04:48
johnx	there's enough sold that I assume I'll be able to pick one up later	04:48
johnx	the hardware buttons look soooo much nicer on the 770 vs the n800	04:48
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Navi	I like the 770's form overall	04:48
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Navi	sexy black over geeky silverish gray	04:48
Tak	I agree	04:48
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Navi	Epic split	04:49
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Navi	odd.	04:51
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GeneralAntilles	Navi, stop playing with the routers.	04:56
Navi	Sorry. I'm done	04:56
* Navi goes back to reading N800 reviews		04:57
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Navi	New internet meme: "So the N800..."	04:59
Navi	http://youtube.com/watch?v=bIllSv0TIQo	04:59
rm_you	yeah i'm going to need one of each eventually :/	04:59
j0tt	this bme binary is really ugly :/	04:59
johnx	j0tt, I imagine so	05:01
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rm_you	johnx: whats the stuff called... with the rice... and the mix thing... and the green tea...	05:09
rm_you	ochazuke	05:09
rm_you	nm	05:10
johnx	yes	05:10
rm_you	lol	05:10
Proteous	how big of a memory card would I need to test debian on my 770?	05:10
rm_you	it finally came to me	05:10
johnx	1GB if you use my tarball	05:10
Proteous	hmf	05:10
johnx	a reasonable minimum would fit in 512MB	05:10
Proteous	since I'm probably not going to buy an 810 soon I might as well get a bigger mem card for my 770	05:10
johnx	and maybe if I squished it quite a lot something would fit in 256MB...	05:10
Proteous	heh	05:10
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Proteous	I only have the stock 64 meg card :P	05:11
Proteous	a 2 gig one is pretty cheap	05:11
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johnx	ah, I can't work miracles	05:11
Proteous	lol	05:11
Proteous	I don't expect you too	05:11
Proteous	got my appleTV delivered today !	05:11
Proteous	haven't hooked it up yet	05:11
Proteous	also haven't started haxoring it up yet	05:11
ryoohki	I'm fixing to "./flasher-3.0 -F <firmware> -f -R"... What the latest OS2008 on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=??????.bin ?	05:14
ryoohki	Why does nokia want to know your wlan mac address?	05:15
GeneralAntilles	So they can tell if you have a device?	05:15
Proteous	to make sure you have a real nokia tablet and are not just downloading the update	05:15
Proteous	also to report you to the NSA	05:15
ryoohki	so what's the url for the latest os2008?	05:15
Proteous	so they can track your every move through thier covert system of wifi access points	05:16
GeneralAntilles	tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php	05:16
johnx	just go to tablets-dev.nokia.com and look up the one that says "latest"	05:16
rm_you	johnx: AIM me a link to the tarball so i can put it on my flash later	05:16
rm_you	or a link to the thread or something	05:16
johnx	rm_you, http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian	05:17
ryoohki	RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ?	05:17
Proteous	I have my brothers WSODed 770	05:17
johnx	ryoohki, yes	05:17
johnx	Proteous, aaah...that will be tough	05:18
johnx	if you try debian I'll give you a hack to get usb networking up early in the boot process	05:19
Proteous	well, I have one that works	05:19
Proteous	I also have my brothers that doesn't	05:19
johnx	well, why make it easy? :P	05:19
johnx	that's like cheating	05:19
Proteous	lol	05:19
Proteous	so true	05:19
Proteous	with debian on there who needs a screen?	05:19
Proteous	just need usb networking and ssh	05:20
Proteous	put apache on there or something...	05:20
johnx	yeah, it will make a nice little portable web server once you bring up wireless	05:20
Proteous	I can have it beep out morse code of output, and use morse code tap on the screen for input	05:21
Proteous	s/of/for/	05:21
infobot	Proteous meant: I can have it beep out morse code for output, and use morse code tap on the screen for input	05:21
Proteous	that would make IRC fun	05:21
johnx	just use text to speech	05:21
Proteous	heh	05:21
Proteous	there's no mic	05:22
Proteous	I could use a bluetooth headset I guess	05:22
johnx	I thought there was a mic?	05:22
Proteous	is there?	05:22
Proteous	ghmm	05:23
Proteous	google says maybe yes	05:23
johnx	linuxdevices says yes :)	05:23
GeneralAntilles	There's a mic on every NIT ever produced.	05:24
Proteous	it also says it has stereo speakers...	05:24
GeneralAntilles	Don't mistake the 770's for a reset port, please.	05:24
GeneralAntilles	On 3.5mm it does, Proteous. ;)	05:24
Proteous	maybe they ment stereo speaker	05:24
Proteous	hehe	05:24
Proteous	it has a stereo headphone output	05:24
Proteous	but only one speaker	05:24
GeneralAntilles	The N800's stereo separation is really awesome when you put your nose to the screen.	05:25
Proteous	heh	05:25
Proteous	I did think the mic hole was a reset button	05:26
tank-man	i love the n800's speakers, they are so loud	05:26
Proteous	although I never tried to press it :P	05:26
Tak	GeneralAntilles: plus that's a great way to type on the fullscreen kb	05:29
ryoohki	how long does flashing take for the n800?	05:30
GeneralAntilles	Gets greasy fast. <_>	05:30
GeneralAntilles	30 seconds?	05:30
Tak	well, wash your nose!	05:34
johnx	woo! midori on zaurus is usable as a web browser	05:34
johnx	and it only takes ~40MB while running	05:35
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Navi	usable?	05:37
johnx	pretty much	05:37
Navi	compared to unusable?	05:37
Navi	:3	05:37
johnx	yes	05:37
dskippy	Does anyone know if the level element is in gstreamer maemo? I can't find it. It's usually in plugins-good	05:37
johnx	compared to basically any other browser on the zaurus, it works better	05:38
Navi	hehe	05:38
johnx	Navi, you have no idea... shakes head	05:38
Navi	of course not	05:38
johnx	Nokia has actually accomplished quite a bit in getting good web browsing on the NITs...	05:39
j0tt	johnx: run this on your z ;) http://www.abrahamjoffe.com.au/ben/canvascape/	05:43
j0tt	http://www.abrahamjoffe.com.au/ben/canvascape/textures.htm or better the texture version :)	05:43
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johnx	ha!	05:47
johnx	yeah right	05:47
johnx	google maps is painfully slow	05:48
johnx	like 1 frame every 5 seconds	05:48
j0tt	so no playable canvas shooter?! :/	05:48
johnx	I'll try it if you really want	05:49
johnx	it will probably render...	05:49
j0tt	hehe well yeah as there is no fps display its not worth it i guess ;)	05:49
j0tt	but maybe it well be blazing fast :>	05:49
johnx	I think there's something holding up screen refreshes	05:50
johnx	epiphany-webkit seemed to be faster in debian/zaurus actually than midori on angstrom/zaurus	05:50
j0tt	svn webkit?	05:50
johnx	I will need to check on that actually	05:50
johnx	my dependencies might have gotten screwed up and I might have an old webkit installed while I built with a new one	05:51
johnx	my gut feeling is that it might be a midori thing vs epiphany...	05:52
johnx	still the rendering speed is reasonable, just the refresh isn't that fast	05:52
johnx	engadget is my usual test for "big bloated site" and midori has no problem with it	05:52
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johnx	tried it, maybe up to 2fps if I do only small movements	05:56
johnx	anyways, have to go to work, will be back later tonight, maybe	05:56
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* johnx wanders away		05:57
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Navi	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9FOVJP81ew	06:06
Navi	o_o	06:06
GeneralAntilles	Win.	06:09
Navi	very much so	06:10
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rm_you	rofl	06:21
rm_you	that's awesome	06:21
rm_you	in the way that i want to go kill some people	06:22
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joebloe	hello	06:54
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dskippy	Does anyone know if I can capture the HOME key and prevent it from doing anything while my program is running?	06:55
Proteous	probably not	06:55
Proteous	but I"m not sure	06:55
dskippy	It seems to be the only button that I can't stop	06:56
Proteous	I also don't seem to lift of the shift key fast enough	06:56
joebloe	was thinking about upgrading to OS2008 on n800 ... has anyone had problems with reverting back to 2007 ?	06:57
acydlord	so it seems	06:57
GeneralAntilles	You can swap back and forth without trouble.	06:58
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kaje	Anyone in here own an n810?	07:01
acydlord	yup	07:01
kaje	can you tell me which SD card I should get (micro or mini)? I really don't want a card that is sticking halfway out	07:02
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GeneralAntilles	Either or	07:03
GeneralAntilles	It's a minisd slot	07:03
GeneralAntilles	but micro cards work fine with an adaptor.	07:03
Proteous	micro < mini	07:03
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kaje	so either will not be sticking out of the device?	07:03
Proteous	yes	07:03
Proteous	well, the micro will have to go in a mini sized adaptor	07:03
GeneralAntilles	It's minisd slot, why would a minisd card stick out?	07:04
kaje	great... are you glad you bought the device? I'm on the verge of buying one	07:04
Proteous	because it put on a few pounds	07:04
kaje	hehe	07:04
acydlord	i like my n810	07:05
Proteous	who can afford such excess	07:05
kaje	since I can use either micro or mini does one have an advantage over the other?	07:06
acydlord	but... honestly... if it hadnt been for the developer discount i problably would have stuck with my n800 for another year	07:06
acydlord	micro can fit in most newer cell phones	07:06
Proteous	wierdly, it seems like the larger capacity cards are micro	07:06
GeneralAntilles	MiniSD doesn't really have much of a purpose.	07:07
Proteous	how much was the developer discount?	07:07
Navi	micros work the best for multiple devices	07:07
acydlord	i wish it had full sizesd	07:07
acydlord	cause i've seen sd cards up to 32gb	07:07
Navi	there's always adapters	07:07
Proteous	Sd to micro adaptors?	07:07
acydlord	developer discount knocked it down to $160USD after everything	07:07
Proteous	heh	07:07
Proteous	damn	07:07
Proteous	that's quite a discount	07:07
acydlord	indeed	07:07
Navi	micro -> normal	07:07
kaje	wow, where can I get that discount!? hehe	07:07
acydlord	kaje, if you have access to a time machine, september would be a start :p	07:08
kaje	hehe	07:08
kaje	thanks a bunch for all the help guys	07:08
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acydlord	geekbrief.tv has a discount code somewhere for it too	07:09
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joebloe	doesn't the n800 only have 128mb ram .. upgraded to OS2008 .. and it reads 251.5MB "device memory" ?	08:05
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Navi	Swappage?	08:08
GeneralAntilles	Flash. . . .	08:10
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Navi	Oh, device memory :o	08:10
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irque	ever since i made my n810 boot from SD, application manager will sometimes fail to install/update a package with an odd error message:	08:17
irque	dpkg-deb (subprocess): error in buffer_read(stream): failed to write to pipe in copy: Input/output error	08:17
irque	ever see that before?	08:18
irque	it doesn't say what path it is failing to write to, etc	08:18
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irque	and i've ruled out filesystem corruption	08:18
irque	any ideas?	08:21
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irque	ah i think i figured it out, it's trying to use a named pipe on a vfat fs	08:27
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irque	and we all know that the only named pipe microsoft is familiar with is Crackpipe	08:28
Proteous	lol	08:28
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irque	now i just need to figure out why application manager insists on using /media/mmc1	08:30
irque	any idea how i can change that setting?	08:31
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irque	yup, that fixed it!	08:35
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irque	there's an option in prefs for app manager (only accessible in red pill mode) that says to download packages to mmc. i turned that off and now my problem is gone.	08:36
irque	though no one here helped me, i thank you, #maemo	08:36
irque	goodnight!	08:37
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rm_you	lol	09:20
rm_you	damn	09:20
rm_you	no LCARS iconset till tomorrow :(	09:20
sxpert	boohoo !!	09:21
inz	yay, the world is safe for one morre day	09:22
rm_you	lol	09:22
rm_you	i'll do it tomorrow, really :P	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:23
GeneralAntilles	You get the code figured out?	09:23
rm_you	eh	09:23
rm_you	didn't really have time	09:23
rm_you	had some womenfolk over <_<	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Good enough excuse. :P	09:24
rm_you	well, one. anyways, hard to code in that environment :P	09:24
Luria	lcars is back?	09:25
GeneralAntilles	and better than ever.	09:25
GeneralAntilles	http://synthesize.us/LCARS_PADD	09:25
Luria	noice	09:26
rm_you	bbl, i have an appointment with my pillow for the next 7 hours	09:27
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solmumaha	internet is broken :(	09:28
solmumaha	inz: have any problems with foreign connections?	09:28
\|tbb\|	morning all	09:29
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solmumaha	morning	09:29
inz	solmumaha, at least google works here a-ok	09:29
solmumaha	k	09:29
solmumaha	i can't access anything outside finland atm	09:30
inz	solmumaha, no idea what operator i am using though, just that the wlan is called "default" ;)	09:30
solmumaha	i bet it's not sonera	09:30
inz	no traceroute on the device	09:32
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inz	solmu, seems to be elisa	09:33
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solmumaha	k, prolly just the storm then	09:34
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inz	solmu, http://www.sonera.fi/Asiakastuki/H%E4iri%F6tiedotteet/Datayhteydet+ulkomaille+eiv%E4t+toimi+140208	10:21
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hrw	morning	10:25
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\|tbb\|	morning	10:29
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b0unc3	good morning	10:30
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juliux	hi	10:52
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oilinki	shirt.	10:55
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oilinki	anyone using pidgin with IRC proxy?	10:55
oilinki	how to avoid parting the channel when pidgin is closed?	10:56
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wwp	oilinki: how would you remain connected to IRC if you quit your IRC client?	10:59
oilinki	wwp: with irc-proxy (using miau currently).	11:00
wwp	if you use a proxy to bounce your IRC connection, it's up to the proxy to keep you alive	11:00
wwp	tried killing pidgin instead of quitting? ;)	11:00
oilinki	eg. the proxy is keeping it up	11:00
oilinki	wwp: heh. I suppose I need to do that :)	11:00
wwp	eheh maybe	11:00
wwp	not sure, if the proxy doesn't keep you alive, the IRC server will shoot your nick after a timeout	11:01
oilinki	but anyway. with xchat, ircII etc. this works fine.	11:01
oilinki	but when pidgin is closed the app sends /part or /leave message to the channels.. and all my other clients get kicked out as well	11:02
doc\|home	dogs--	11:02
doc\|home	fucker just chewed one of my styluses	11:02
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oilinki	doc\|home: well, you'll know where to put the spare ;)	11:02
doc\|home	oilinki: yeah, good thing I put it aside :( know where I can get spares?	11:03
Tobotras	Is there any web-camera apps f/maemo?	11:03
doc\|home	Tobotras: garage.maemo.org has at least one	11:03
oilinki	doc\|home: sorry, don't know. nokiashop maybe?	11:03
doc\|home	thanks, will look	11:04
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Tobotras	doc\|home: any hints on name? :)	11:14
Tobotras	doc\|home: ok, found it, thanks	11:15
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playya2	Hi	11:23
playya2	hi	11:23
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lcuk_3	gah!!! xchat is flashing but its gone from scrollback	11:27
lcuk_3	(hates that)	11:27
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:27
Jaffa	lcuk_3: check the log on the web?	11:27
lcuk_3	mornin jaff, i would do if it was important, and quicker i could check my local disk log but its like a needle in a haystack without local highlighting	11:28
* lcuk_3 takes a philosophical view and thinks ppl will call back if its important ;)		11:29
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\|tbb\|	my sylog of desktop pc says -> kernel: [10216.501687] usb0: no IPv6 routers present	11:52
\|tbb\|	what could i do to fix that	11:52
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AD-N770	bon dia / good morning	11:55
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felipec	buenos dias AD-N770	11:58
solmumaha	\|tbb\|: disable ipv6	11:59
playya2	anyone tried to install build depencies for osso-rss-feed-reader in scratchbox?	12:04
playya2	cant find osso-rss-feed-reader-l10n-mr0 in the reposittories	12:04
\|tbb\|	solmumaha: could u tell me how?	12:10
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solmumaha	\|tbb\|: blacklist ipv6 module?	12:16
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LinuxCode	morning all	12:16
LinuxCode	is it just me...or can it be that GPS pathc drains your battery ?!?!	12:16
LinuxCode	patch	12:16
LinuxCode	I think I will have to reflash	12:16
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Juhaz	it probably drains your battery because now you're actually using the gps ;)	12:18
LinuxCode	no more like it never switches off..hence its faster but also drains the battery	12:18
LinuxCode	which sucks if the N810 only lasts a day	12:18
LinuxCode	haha	12:18
LinuxCode	priorities!	12:19
LinuxCode	gps is no priority	12:19
LinuxCode	besides...around this neck of the woods I cant get a lock	12:19
LinuxCode	so its pointless	12:19
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wwp	hmm googling didn't help me knowing if a libxlst is really available for chinook. anyone has a hint?	12:21
\|tbb\|	solmumaha: sorry got no clue havent activate it by myself	12:22
solmumaha	what distribution?	12:26
\|tbb\|	ubuntu gutsy	12:26
solmumaha	echo "blacklist ipv6" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist	12:26
LinuxCode	thats one thing I would like to see in the N810	12:27
LinuxCode	ipv6!	12:27
LinuxCode	so I can tunnel ipv6 over openvpn	12:27
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playya2	where can i find the osso-rss-feed-reader-l10n-mr0 package and all depencies?	12:34
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michele_	well, I skimmed through the "what would you like in the N900" thread and it's amazing how people can be out of touch with reality	12:34
LinuxCode	michele_, I want a burger maker in it please	12:36
LinuxCode	and a microwave	12:36
LinuxCode	on a serious note.... Id like it to have bash instead of busyboxes ash	12:36
playya2	after the new patents of nokia you will slide it in 5 directions an fold it like a folding ruler	12:36
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LinuxCode	morning \|tbb\|	12:37
michele_	LinuxCode: there is no real reason to have bash. the only people who'd want it can easily install it by themselves	12:38
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jku	LinuxCode, do you know how slow bash is?	12:39
LinuxCode	jku, maybe...	12:40
LinuxCode	but its more usable	12:40
LinuxCode	imho	12:40
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LinuxCode	even if it was optional	12:40
LinuxCode	that be nice	12:40
LinuxCode	let people chose	12:40
LinuxCode	I like choice	12:40
trickie	there was a package for OS2007 IIRC	12:40
hrw	LinuxCode: and you have choice	12:41
hrw	choice to install bash from network or not to install	12:41
LinuxCode	from network ?	12:42
hrw	feeds, repositories etc	12:42
LinuxCode	it onflicts with busybox	12:42
hrw	no	12:42
LinuxCode	errm	12:42
hrw	its busybox which conlicts with bash	12:42
LinuxCode	ok	12:43
LinuxCode	lol	12:43
jku	but that's a bug in busybox packaging, not a reason to change to bash	12:43
LinuxCode	still doesnt let you install it though	12:43
hrw	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2896	12:43
hrw	LinuxCode: unless you are familiar with vi and packaging system	12:43
LinuxCode	jku, we arent talking about each others personal preferences here	12:43
LinuxCode	hrw, if it was rpm Id repackage it	12:44
LinuxCode	i had a quick look at deb	12:44
LinuxCode	would have to sit down and figure that out	12:44
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hrw	there are many things done in wrong way in maemo world	12:45
LinuxCode	hrw, tbh I think its done on purpose...so idiots dont brick their devices and then go crying to Nokia	12:45
hrw	LinuxCode: its not so easy	12:46
LinuxCode	yeh..	12:46
LinuxCode	hehe	12:46
hrw	Angström, OpenSlug, OpenZaurus, Familiar distros have/had it done more properly	12:46
hrw	Debian has it done properly	12:46
LinuxCode	but you know what some people manage to do...	12:46
hrw	maemo fscked it	12:46
LinuxCode	I must buy a sd micro card so I can smack some other distros on	12:48
LinuxCode	still eager to see how fedora works	12:48
LinuxCode	hehe	12:48
LinuxCode	but its good to see most major distros are now venturing into the mobile device sector	12:49
hrw	fedora does not support arm	12:49
LinuxCode	not support...but develop	12:49
LinuxCode	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM <-------	12:49
hrw	want bash for os2008?	12:49
LinuxCode	its in the repo	12:50
LinuxCode	cant you force an install ?	12:50
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LinuxCode	you can force installs with rpm	12:50
LinuxCode	or use a --nodeps option	12:50
LinuxCode	sure apt must have something like that	12:51
LinuxCode	surely	12:51
hrw	dpkg has	12:51
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LinuxCode	ahh yes	12:51
LinuxCode	dpkg sorry	12:51
LinuxCode	lol	12:51
LinuxCode	might try that then	12:51
LinuxCode	when I have a little time	12:51
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_collin_	hr	13:00
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Spakman_	does anyone know if lynx is in any repository?	14:41
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johnx	Spakman, no lynx but there is links	14:59
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Tak	ugh - my build works if I do `make distclean; ./configure; make` but not if I do `dpkg-buildpackage -rsudo`	15:05
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\|tbb\|	hey tak	15:06
Tak	hello \|tbb\|	15:06
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Spakman_	johnx: thanks a lot. I found a .deb on garage.	15:20
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Tobotras	No wokring camera app for os2008 :(	15:22
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* pupnik tries to understand where the computer is in the n810		15:28
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hrw	Tobotras: really?	15:32
hrw	Tobotras: I have camera on n810 working	15:32
Tobotras	hrw: using what?	15:33
Stskeeps	Tobotras: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html , - can possibly build something with that? i saw a camera app in repository though too?	15:34
Zero_Dogg	me too, nokia shipped some program in one of the repos	15:34
Drag0s	Hello. Where can I an evince os 2008 unstable repo/package?	15:34
Tobotras	Stskeeps: that's for os2007	15:35
Stskeeps	Tobotras: works just fine on os2008	15:35
Stskeeps	:P	15:35
Stskeeps	just tested it	15:35
Stskeeps	atleast the python version	15:36
Tobotras	Stskeeps: oh!	15:36
hrw	Tobotras: camera app	15:39
hrw	http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com chinook/user Packages	15:39
hrw	there is camera app	15:39
jku	Stskeeps, that document is available for 4.0 too, suggest using that (there could be changes)	15:41
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Tobotras	hrw: like others, cannot grab camera [after SIP client pops up]	15:43
Tobotras	up to rebot	15:44
Stskeeps	Tobotras: from somewhere: . Disable video chat from loading on camera coming out "gconftool-2 --set --type bool '/system/osso/af/launch-on-camera' 'false'"	15:44
Tobotras	reboot	15:44
Tobotras	Stskeeps: that's it, thanks	15:44
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Zero_Dogg	Anyone have any clue how to use the Norwegian keys on the N810 slide-out keyboard? They've put all of the scandinavian countries into one keyboard setting, and the keys "æ" and "ø" thus doesn't work	15:47
hrw	Zero_Dogg: the hw keyboard mapping suxx	15:48
hrw	Zero_Dogg: tried Chr+r for "ø"?	15:48
Zero_Dogg	hrw: I've noticed :/	15:48
hrw	Zero_Dogg: you can need to press chr+r few times to get your r-thing	15:49
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Zero_Dogg	hrw: ah, bah. Chr+the ø button yields ø. That's silly, because the char that appears when I just press the button is never ever used in Norwegian :/	15:49
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Tobotras	Heh. Still camera works only once after boot, next invocation yields v4l2_next: VIDIOC_DQBUF: Input/output error	15:50
hrw	Zero_Dogg: I would like to know how to edit that list so for my Polish keymap chr+o would give ó in first place	15:50
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Zero_Dogg	hrw: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukeyboard/ does it, so might be possible to just look at the source of that and modify it	15:51
hrw	ukeyboard allow to use other keymaps then official ones	15:51
hrw	but even if my keymap has 'æ' on Chr+c it will not give it at first press	15:53
hrw	keyboard handling is not solved in maemo in good way	15:54
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\|tbb\|	is maemo.org down?	15:59
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Navi	No.	16:01
Zero_Dogg	What is the issue with maemo.org any way? Is it actually running on an N800 or something?	16:03
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mwaldron	that's why they upped the clockspeed for the 800 in os2008, to improve performance of maemo.org	16:04
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Zero_Dogg	lol	16:05
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\|tbb\|	it cant be a n810 cause there is not enough storage possibility (only one sdcard slot :)	16:09
pupnik_	why do I see 4 clients on my network with kismet :\|	16:09
pupnik_	only 1 tablet connected	16:10
\|tbb\|	your neighbors ;)	16:10
mwaldron	i saw this morning there are 8gb microSDHC cards. so where are our 16gb minisdhc? :)	16:10
* mwaldron is patiently awaiting a kismet package		16:10
Navi	that crap is so expensive.	16:11
mwaldron	nosd	16:11
mwaldron	nosd	16:11
mwaldron	nods dammit i typed nods	16:11
hrw	32GB sdhc exists in SD format...	16:12
mwaldron	going to be one of those days	16:12
mwaldron	i picked up a 4gb minisdhc for $18. i can wait a bit for more storage	16:12
Navi	I've always been able to fit my life within 10GB sans the music collection	16:12
Navi	and the anime	16:12
mwaldron	i do wish the 810 had a microsdhc for it's 'internal' memory, hiding under teh battery	16:13
Navi	I'm pretty content	16:14
pupnik_	ahh kismet is finding the MAC addresses of the LAN devices on the router - router broadcasting Routing info	16:14
Navi	The 2GB internal memory is enough for me	16:14
Navi	Of course, I don't have an N810, so what do I know?	16:15
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\|tbb\|	pupnik_ your luck ;)	16:18
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mwaldron	so far i like my 810	16:18
mwaldron	but i need to stop complaining about lack of vpn and get it working	16:18
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ol_schoola	what is the status of openVPN on os2008? i've been distracted by my AppleTV lately and haven't checked in at ITT in a while	16:20
mwaldron	i think openvpn works	16:21
mwaldron	i need ms pptp though	16:21
mwaldron	i saw packages for openvpn anyway	16:21
Veggen	Hmm. I should get around to setting up openvpn at home.	16:21
Veggen	can you bridge through openvpn?	16:22
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mwaldron	i use it at home (via sveasoft linksys) and we use it here at work too	16:22
K-Fox	hi	16:22
mwaldron	i could change home, but not work	16:22
Veggen	...i.e. can you make those upnp-filebrowsing/multimedia-stuff work through it?	16:22
mwaldron	well, i could, but my boss prolly not like me much fi i did	16:22
K-Fox	is it possible to listen lastfm on canola2 ?	16:22
K-Fox	vagalume is no volume	16:23
ol_schoola	ah, i thought the vpn util was for the Cisco clients only, works with openVPN too? will use it with openWRT at home	16:23
ol_schoola	Veggen: if it can land on your internal LAN over VPN, yep	16:24
mwaldron	hrm, i could easily be wrong :)	16:24
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ol_schoola	mwaldron: i'll get off my a$$ and look into it. just gotta install Perian on the appleTV and it'll play wmv's	16:25
\|tbb\|	k-fox vagalume works fine for me	16:25
ol_schoola	too many toys, so little time	16:25
ol_schoola	K-Fox: vagalume worked for me too	16:25
\|tbb\|	wish i can record the streams ;)	16:26
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mwaldron	that's my problem with vpn. 90% lazy 10% scared	16:27
K-Fox	vagalume have no volume control	16:28
mwaldron	but i need to get it working	16:28
Veggen	ol_schoola: of course it can. I was thinking of setting up openvpn towards my firewall (openBSD based)	16:28
Veggen	...and I run my home wireless on it's own zone on the firewall.	16:29
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ol_schoola	interesting. i have a buffalo linkstation and a wrt54g. i've been thinking of setting up the linksys as a captive access point for guests that visit (happens more often than i thought)	16:32
ol_schoola	but i really need to tie the IT back to the home net to simplify the SMTP conundrum	16:33
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tony2001	any idea why `dsmetool -k "/path/to/binary"` doesn't kill the process started with `dsmetool -f "/path/to/binary"` ?	16:39
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\|tbb\|	kfox use the hardware zoom +/- button s	16:43
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K-Fox	\|tbb\|: oh it''s good , really i did not know this function .... thank you	16:50
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michele_	man monotone is painful...	16:59
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melmoth	Anybody knows why i do not get the vprintf output of maemomapper to stdout ?	17:02
melmoth	if i change them to g_printf, it works..but i guess there are vrptinf for a good reason	17:02
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ywwg	On my desktop, I can call os.nice(someval) and then I can call os.nice(0 - someval) to return to regular 0 niceness. But, on maemo, when I try to increment a negative niceness I get Operation Not Permitted. Is this unavoidable?	17:32
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wwp	ywwg: tried as user or root?	17:38
ywwg	wwp: user	17:38
ywwg	user works on the desktop, but not on the nokia	17:38
wwp	ywwg: IIRC renicing could be a root-thing under certain conditions	17:38
wwp	I'm not sure if that applies to this case, though	17:39
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\|\|cw	a user cna't make a processes less nice	17:40
ywwg	whine.	17:46
ywwg	it works on the desktop tho :/. I'm trying to find a way to make my program not clobber the system quite as much while it's working	17:46
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trickie	ywwg: a user can only renice processes belonging to them, and only in the range 0-20	17:49
trickie	root can renice what they want to whatever value	17:50
ywwg	trickie: that's ok, I want to nice to 2, and then back to 0. it won't let me go backwards (where it was)	17:50
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trickie	is it a process that your active user owns?	17:53
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melmoth	any maemo mapper around ?	17:55
melmoth	i meant maemomapper developper :	17:56
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michele_	is it possible, modifying rx-44 to change the chars I get with the Chr key?	19:23
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mgedmin	I'm sure it is	19:26
mgedmin	it's not necessarily easy	19:26
michele_	do you have pointers?	19:26
mgedmin	the configuration lives somewhere in /usr/share/X11/xkb/	19:27
michele_	yes, I already modified it	19:27
mgedmin	then you know more than I do :)	19:27
michele_	but I don't know how to change the beaviour of the Chr key	19:27
mgedmin	what's the keysym assigned to Chr?	19:27
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michele_	no idea, I guess Mod5, but I'm not sure	19:28
mgedmin	I don't have a N810 myself	19:28
mgedmin	it could be ISO_Level3_Shift, or Multi_key	19:29
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michele_	yes Mod5 is mapped on Level3	19:29
mgedmin	how does it work? Do you press Chr e = to get a Euro sign, or do you hold Chr and press something to get something?	19:29
michele_	you hold Chr and press e to get è or é	19:29
mgedmin	aha	19:29
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mgedmin	if so then editing columns 3 and 4 in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 ought to change the characters you get	19:30
mgedmin	(after a reboot)	19:30
michele_	no, that's for Fn, not Chr	19:30
michele_	btw, I hate how everybody in the US is changing € to be \| ;)	19:31
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mgedmin	do you have xev?	19:32
michele_	no	19:32
mgedmin	there's a package with it out there somewhere	19:32
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mgedmin	oh, actually I built it and uploaded to my repo (http://mg.pov.lt/770 chinook user)	19:33
* mgedmin should upload it to extras		19:33
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michele_	I'll have a look at wath hrw did for the polish layout first	19:34
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melmoth	still no maemomapper developper around ?	20:01
* mgedmin likes the word 'developper'		20:02
michele_	melmoth: there's only one, and does not hang on here usually	20:02
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melmoth	ok, i ll send him a mail then. (funny though, the garage project show several people commiting in the tree)	20:03
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michele_	in that case I am just wrong	20:06
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melmoth	no problemo, i use to be wrong quite often too :)	20:07
\|tbb\|	lardman: around?	20:07
pope523	I have OS2007 installed on my 770. I have found a couple of howtos on configuring the 770 to allow you to mount Windows shares, but none of them have worked for me. It says the modules is invalid when I try to load it. Can anyone help me out?	20:07
lcuk_3	anyone using an apple bluetooth keyboard with their 8x0?	20:10
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* mgedmin raises his hand		20:10
mgedmin	lcuk_3: I am	20:10
lcuk_3	how do i pair it with my device - ive got one here and its trying to pair and giving a passcode on 810 but obviously pairing fails	20:10
lcuk_3	is there a passcode default or something	20:11
michele_	I found this just minutes ago http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/keyboard/	20:11
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michele_	might be useful	20:12
mgedmin	lcuk_3: you're supposed to type the same passcode on the keyboard and press enter	20:12
mgedmin	also, there's a bug that sometimes pops up a 'pairing failed' error before you even get a chance to do that	20:13
lcuk_3	thanks	20:13
lcuk_3	ive done it	20:13
lcuk_3	:D	20:13
lcuk_3	now ive gotta put it away for a week until my birthday	20:14
lcuk_3	apple dorks in the apple shop didnt think it would work with anything other than a mac	20:14
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Solarion	how do I get the n810 to receive OBEX transfers ove bluetooth?	20:16
s1d	have something that accepts opex push requests on that rfcomm port	20:16
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Solarion	s1d: I want to receive files on the n810	20:17
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lcuk_3	my missus says she actually managed to baffle the apple people. she is mega chuffed now	20:19
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mgedmin	Solarion: I just commented on a maemo bug about that :)	20:21
mgedmin	coincidence?	20:21
Solarion	mgedmin: w00t!	20:21
mgedmin	I managed to get my 770 with sobexsrv to accept OBEX PUSH transfers from a Palm Tungsten T	20:21
mgedmin	it required a change in the server code to advertise an additional data format (0xFF)	20:21
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Solarion	mgedmin: ouch	20:21
mgedmin	I don't know what exactly N8x0 uses	20:21
Solarion	that doesn't sound simple	20:21
mgedmin	but it might require an equivalent patch	20:21
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\|tbb\|	NAT is not enabled in the kernel by default, anyone knows how to insmod that nat thing?	20:23
mgedmin	insmod /path/to/iptables-nat.ko, I assume	20:23
mgedmin	after you've built it somehow	20:23
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\|tbb\|	anyone built a nat module for bora, before?	20:26
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pope523	Can soemone help me mount Windows shares?	20:44
mwaldron	not yet, but hopefully i'll get to that part of my 810 next week	20:46
mgedmin	I don't know if you can mount them, but you can browse them with the File Manager	20:46
pope523	Can I access files on shares through the file manager?	20:46
mgedmin	yes	20:46
pope523	On OS2007?	20:46
mgedmin	no	20:46
mgedmin	on OS2008	20:46
mgedmin	I suggest an upgrade	20:47
pope523	And I can't install OS2008 on a 770, right?	20:47
mgedmin	ah, no	20:47
mgedmin	I withdraw my suggestion	20:47
pope523	heh	20:47
mgedmin	(you said OS2007, not OS2007HE!)	20:47
b0unc3	pope523: you can use wizard-mounter on OS2007	20:47
b0unc3	oh OS2007HE... well.. I dont' know :)	20:48
pope523	I tried Wizard Mounter. I click the button to mount the share and it appears that the program closes without mounting it	20:48
Zero_Dogg	mgedmin: how is it possible to browse network shares in the file manager? (is sftp possible by the way?)	20:48
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pope523	Maybe I should have spent the extra $100 for an n800 :)	20:49
Navi	pope523, you should have.	20:49
mgedmin	Zero_Dogg: it just works for me	20:49
Navi	Zero_Dogg, sftp should be possible	20:49
mgedmin	open file manager, wait a few seconds, notice the 'Shared Folders' entry at the bottom on the left	20:49
Zero_Dogg	isn't there an unofficial os2008 for it?	20:49
Zero_Dogg	mgedmin: ah, right	20:49
mgedmin	open it, see all the network servers	20:49
Zero_Dogg	Navi: any clue how?	20:49
Zero_Dogg	mgedmin: right, guess that's smb then	20:50
Navi	any clue how what?	20:50
Zero_Dogg	Navi: how to access sftp	20:50
mgedmin	a 770 is just on wrong side of 'too slow, too little RAM', a n800 is just on the right side of 'barely fast enough, sufficient RAM'	20:50
Navi	Zero_Dogg, set up openssh-server	20:50
mgedmin	hm, maemo uses gnome-vfs	20:50
Navi	and connect to it	20:50
mgedmin	gnome-vfs supports sftp	20:50
mgedmin	but is that support compiled in the maemo version?	20:51
* mgedmin has no idea		20:51
Zero_Dogg	I know gnome-vfs does, but I haven't found any way to actually connect in the maemo file manager	20:51
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mwaldron	i know this question is out of left field, but has anyone dissected a n810 that would know who the physical manufacturer of the screen it?	20:56
mwaldron	s/it/is	20:56
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hrw\|gone	michele_: key <AB06> { type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [ nacute, Nacute, dollar, dollar, n, N, dollar, dollar ] };	21:05
michele_	I was sure you knew	21:05
michele_	thanks	21:05
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hrw\|gone	michele_: its: chr+n, chr+shift+n, fn+n, fn+shift+n, n, shift+n, fn+n, fn+shift+n	21:06
hrw\|gone	michele_: but chr+SOMETHING is ignored ;(	21:06
hrw\|gone	michele_: find how to change and give info ;D	21:06
hrw\|gone	bye	21:06
michele_	I don't understand what's being ignored	21:06
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mgedmin	aha, so the Chr key is actually <RCTL>	21:16
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jott	hrw\|gone (and others) fyi, i solved the "Chr" issue by setting the "key <COMP>" to "ISO_Level5_Shift" and adding a modifier_map (e.g. modifier_map Mod3 { ISO_Level5_Shift } )... this way the EIGHT_LEVEL works	22:33
jott	then you have ... type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [ None, Shift, LevelThree, Shift+LevelThree, LevelFive, Shift+LevelFive, LevelThree+LevelFive, Shift+LevelThree+LevelFive ] ...	22:34
jott	wher LevelThree = Fn and LevelFive = Chr	22:34
mgedmin	ah, so Chr is <COMP> after all	22:35
mgedmin	which is mapped to Multi_key by default, right?	22:35
mgedmin	then it must be the input method that's doing stuff to it	22:35
mgedmin	because Gtk's standard handling of Multi_key is to map three keystrokes into one (e.g. Multi_key c o => copyright)	22:35
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jott	yes, it was multi_key.. but i like it more to have a direct mapping :)	22:37
jott	i wished they had not used the F-keys for Menu/Zoom/etc... so one could actually use them in applications.. (like Chr+Q => F1)	22:38
mgedmin	have you noticed symbols/level5?	22:39
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mgedmin	(and types/level5, and compat/level5)	22:39
jott	yes.. thats why i concluded i need a Level5 key ;)	22:40
mgedmin	I've been scratching my head trying to understand where these were used	22:40
mgedmin	which is apparently nowhere by default :)	22:40
jott	the "types/default" and "compat/default" includes them	22:41
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jott	(i suppose thats why they are loaded ;)	22:41
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mgedmin	right, I was looking for a key actually mapped to those	22:43
mgedmin	and why does it use 0xffwhatever instead of ISO_Level5_Shift?	22:44
jott	sorry i'm not that deep into xkb config files ;).. i also wondered why..	22:44
GeneralAntilles	Whoa whoa whoa. Did anybody notice this? http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/internet_tablet_hacker_edition_pushed_at_chinook_level.html	22:46
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jott	hehe nice, so drop suport for everything < os2008 NOW! :)	22:48
jott	no excuses are tolerated anymore :>	22:49
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fysa	cool.	22:51
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maddler	ls -ltr	23:15
maddler	wops! :D	23:15
t_s_o	ugh, iphone...	23:16
GeneralAntilles	ls: Command not found. Go away!	23:16
keesj	ls -lart > GeneralAntilles	23:17
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GeneralAntilles	Just installed OS2008HE.	23:19
GeneralAntilles	Creeps me out.	23:20
rm_you	wait, WHAT?!	23:20
rm_you	2008HE!?	23:20
rm_you	wtf?	23:20
GeneralAntilles	Ha	23:21
rm_you	lol	23:21
rm_you	i hope you're kidding... or that you're not. I'm not sure which would be better.	23:21
pupnik	wow oprofile is totally awesome	23:21
mwaldron	www.maemo.org	23:21
mwaldron	ww	23:21
mwaldron	:P	23:21
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pupnik	esd takes up a fair amount ot time	23:30
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pupnik	http://pastebin.ca/904328	23:31
GeneralAntilles	Well, I'm not unimpressed by OS2008HE.	23:36
GeneralAntilles	It's reasonably responsive.	23:36
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pupnik	GeneralAntilles: hows the browser?	23:38
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pupnik	ahaa loook how much sound blaster takes up	23:44
pupnik	144808 31.9373 dosbox CPU_Core_Simple_Run()	23:44
pupnik	43815 9.6634 dosbox mem_writew(unsigned int, unsigned short)	23:44
pupnik	39148 8.6341 dosbox OPL2::YM3812UpdateOne(int, short*, int)	23:44
GeneralAntilles	Feels REALLY good, actually.	23:44
GeneralAntilles	Startup is a little slow.	23:44
GeneralAntilles	But it's pretty responsive on normal sites.	23:44
pupnik	why were they so pessimistic on the wiki then?	23:45
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: wow. I'm actually amazed they were working on that.	23:45
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: you have a 770?!	23:46
GeneralAntilles	So the ravenous hordes don't take a little optimism and turn it into unmet hype. <_<	23:46
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GeneralAntilles	2, rm_you.	23:46
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: !?! >_>	23:46
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: send me one :P	23:46
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rm_you	why would you have 2x 770?	23:47
GeneralAntilles	woot.com	23:47
rm_you	>_>	23:47
rm_you	but... WHY	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Mostly for an extra battery for my N800.	23:47
rm_you	rofl	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Partly because they make great couch/nightstand/kitchen/wherever browsers/terminals/ebook readers/media playback controllers.	23:48
GeneralAntilles	mmpc means I can control music playback from just about anywhere. :D	23:48
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GeneralAntilles	pupnik, it chokes a bit on the heavier AJAX stuff.	23:49
GeneralAntilles	digg is a little painful	23:49
GeneralAntilles	slashdot is good	23:49
Navi_	:3	23:49
GeneralAntilles	wikipedia work nicely.	23:49
GeneralAntilles	Mostly during rendering	23:49
Navi_	Wikipedia isn't very javascript heavy	23:49
pupnik	digg suxx	23:49
GeneralAntilles	it gets better after it's loaded.	23:49
GeneralAntilles	Well, duh, but it's good for testing bloated sites. :P	23:49
pupnik	true	23:50
Juhaz	how's the memory usage? 2007he wasn't really usable for me since it keeps hogging everything down by itself and leaves almost nothing for the poor apps	23:50
GeneralAntilles	Probably a lot worse than OS2007HE.	23:51
GeneralAntilles	Avoiding too much multitasking wouldn't be a bad idea.	23:52
rm_you	use swap >_>	23:52
GeneralAntilles	Only gets you 128MB total.	23:53
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jott	...use more swap :)	23:55
Juhaz	well, you could use a partition or your own file instead of the one the control panel applet creates, but the universe only lasts so long.	23:56
jott	the universe collapses if you manually create swap space on a n770? :O	23:57
Navi_	ha	23:57
GeneralAntilles	Nah, I'm just way too lazy.	23:57
Juhaz	well, no, it's just that the 770 with that much swap is so slow that I'd still be waiting for it to do something when the universe collapses (or however it will eventually choose to go) naturally	23:58
mgedmin	a linux machine with no swap is much slower when it runs out of ram than a linux machine with swap	23:59
Navi_	ha	23:59
Navi_	lockup if you're out of ram	23:59

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