IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-02-14

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lcuk_3thats ok as long as gizmo is the neighbours cat ;)00:02
lcuk_3beer or coffee?00:03
GeneralAntillesBeer, duh.00:04
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lcuk_3its a school night thou, my mummy said i cant have beer :(00:04
GeneralAntillesOK, a big salad bowl of ice cream.00:04
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lcuk_3ice cream?00:06
rm_you|n800LCARS is amazing00:06
lcuk_3its WINTER00:06
* lcuk_3 fills it with snow00:06
GeneralAntillesIt's only in the mid-40s out.00:06
lcuk_3rm_you, its quite good isnt it00:06
rm_you|n800check out my ip:00:06
lcuk_3charge your battery and you get a cylon on your screen00:06
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rm_you|n800inet addr:
rm_you|n800it ends in ZERO00:07
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GeneralAntillesrm_you|n800 haxed the internets!00:08
rm_you|n800i didnt tthink that was possible... but it works!!!!!!!!!!00:08
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rm_you|n800i sshed to it ssuccessfully00:08
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rm_you|n800anyway... LCARS iconset will be tonight00:09
rm_you|n800because of awesome00:09
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lcuk_3hey, whilst you are here, the backlight thing you did is a kernel mod isnt it00:09
rm_you|n800any idea how to make osso-statusbar-cpu look better?00:09
maddlerrm_you|n800: watch at your netmask... :)00:09
||cwsure 0 will work.  normally you can connect to 0 even if ther eis no host on it and you'll get a response from the fastest system in the subnet00:10
rm_you|n800lcuk_3: no00:10
maddlerrm_you|n800: LCARS ICONSET?! I WANT IT NOW!00:10
lcuk_3ahhhh rm, thought it was00:10
lcuk_3its just linked and autoruns from maemo isnt it00:10
rm_you|n800cw: right... thought it was reserved00:10
rm_you|n800lcuk_3: ?00:10
maddlerrm_you|n800: it depends on the subnet you are usig...00:11
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lcuk_3you just have the module running from the subsystem on the maemo desktop.... rather than a proper kernel module00:11
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rm_you|n800it just seems really random00:11
maddlerrm_you|n800: if you are using a whole C class .0 will be your broadcast address :)00:11
rm_you|n800lcuk_3: no?00:11
rm_you|n800lcuk_3: it's just a normal statusbar plugin...00:11
GeneralAntillesosso-statusbar-cpu: make the colors more pastel, turn off the clock, install the big clock.00:12
lcuk_3which is more integrated into maemo than a normal application00:12
rm_you|n800err... i guess?00:12
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rm_you|n800i guess it is00:12
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lcuk_3which is why i got it confused with a kernel module - which is integrated into the main linux kernel00:13
* lcuk_3 forgot about the middle ground00:13
* rm_you|n800 feels confused00:14
lcuk_3to do this framebuffer stuff properly i need kernel module00:14
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lcuk_3hence i was asking you because i thought yours was one... i was mistaken...   oooh look, isnt LCARS nice00:15
rm_you|n800yes :P00:16
lcuk_3did you install just the theme or everything (theme+extra helper programs)00:16
lcuk_3GeneralAntilles, are you still running it on yours?00:16
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rm_you|n800i used their .install00:17
rm_you|n800so, complete00:17
lcuk_3have you rebooted yet?00:18
lcuk_3you get sounds..00:18
rm_you|n800i did,, and do ;p00:18
rm_you|n800i have another project...00:21
rm_you|n800and omg awesome...00:21
rm_you|n800it's lcars related00:22
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rm_you|n800you know the default lcars desktop?00:22
rm_you|n800imagine the side bars  are temp/lux meters00:22
rm_you|n800and the center is a planet with definable color palettes00:23
rm_you|n800that is generated with perlin noise and is zoomable00:23
rm_you|n800and rotatable00:24
rm_you|n800the zooming process would even look like it does in ST00:24
GeneralAntilleslcuk_3, one has LCARS one has Echo.00:24
rm_you|n800go  find ken perlin's world applet for an example00:25
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rm_you|n800how ridiculously awesome would that be00:27
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mmrhi everyonejust a quick q about x chat if anyone is there00:30
mmreveryone sleeping :(00:31
jottjust ask your question00:31
mmris it possible to cut and paste00:32
mmri can highlight the text but sadly00:32
mmrthe keyboard does not show copy00:32
||cwtry the menu00:32
rm_you|n800select the text then hit the lowest left button00:32
GeneralAntillesor tap'n'hold00:32
rm_you|n800oh wait00:33
rm_you|n800xchat autocopies00:33
rm_you|n800just select and paste00:33
GeneralAntillesor that00:33
mmrjust done it00:34
mmrsheesh i feel foolish00:34
mmrseeing as the generals online and i know he loves a fool ;)00:34
mmrcan u recommend a rar and zip gui00:34
rm_you|n800it's more obvious  on other platforms, as iit also auto-deselects00:34
GeneralAntillesDoes xterm count? :P00:35
rm_you|n800works well00:35
mmrxterm or xarchiver00:35
rm_you|n800i may have thhe deb, but google should find it00:35
mmroh ok00:35
mmrill check00:35
mmrjust out of interest ive been running mplayer and am absolutely amazed at what it plays00:36
mmrliterally everything00:36
* GeneralAntilles dreams of 720p.00:36
mmrwas pleasently suprised00:36
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mmrbut twas a shock to me00:36
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mmrafter seeing all the bitchingin the forums00:36
mmrplays everyting ive thrown it00:37
GeneralAntillesYes, ITT is filled with vitriolic hyperbole.00:37
lardmanpH5|N810: DevInitMBX looks interesting and complete and actually probably quite easy to decipher00:37
rm_you|n800try it with bluetooth->a2dp yet? :P00:37
mmrim not so greedy00:37
rm_you|n800it works great!00:38
mmrwould take up too much cpu00:38
rm_you|n800a2dp is what first got me intoo maemo00:38
mmrim trying to get windows share working00:38
rm_you|n800errr ..  actually it isnt horrible00:38
mmrsomeone said its automatic on os200800:39
mmrbut hasnt been so for me00:39
rm_you|n800they need to be unpassworded00:39
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|tbb|a2dp works great?00:39
mmryup so it is00:39
mmri dunno00:39
rm_you|n800tbb: fairly, last time i checked00:39
mmrsould it just pick up the share00:39
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rm_you|n800with my patched mpllayer, cpuscale hack, and video :P00:40
lcuk_3firewall on windows device could be blocking things..00:40
mmrnope it works between to windows machines00:40
lcuk_3on mine ive parted the wall between my machines00:40
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* lcuk_3 feels like moses00:40
mmrthat would be the water surely00:41
|tbb|rm_you where to get it, is there a wiki00:41
lcuk_3new/different network interface00:41
mmrand now whats with the patched mplayer00:41
mmror cpuscale00:41
pH5|N810lardman: good, I didn't look at that one yet00:41
mmrwill tht oveclock the cpu00:41
mmrsurely not00:42
mmroh damn the other halfs calling00:42
mmrgnight all00:42
mmrand thanx00:42
lcuk_3dont complain its valentines soon00:42
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mmri know00:42
pH5|N810I've started with the clock setup, but this is completely different on 242000:42
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mmrcant afford anythingfancy00:43
pH5|N810and 243000:43
mmrjust bought the n80000:43
* mmr sighs00:43
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lcuk_3im sure having you without head pressed to computer screen would be good, now go before she hits you over head with frying pan00:43
mmrgotcha over and out00:43
lcuk_3gnite, and tell her ill be round at about 11am tomorrow ;)00:44
lardmanpH5|N810: I think my following the code from init_module put me off when it started jumping all round the place00:44
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lardmanpH5|N810: But there are certainly functions which seem to be reasonably cleanly implemented (i.e. the compiler hasn't done wierd things to them) :)00:45
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pH5|N810lardman: ok. do you see where from the function that calls Dev...MBX00:48
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lcuk_3have you got a disassembly of it now00:48
pH5|N810uh, damn n810 keyboard00:49
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lardmanyou mean which function calls it?00:49
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pH5|N810I mean do you know where the registering function is called from?00:50
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pH5|N810it's calles DevMBXRegister or similar00:50
rm_you|n800err, theres  a thread on ITT about a2dp... i link to my mplayer somewheere around page 200:50
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lardmanpH5|N810: I will have a look-see00:50
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rm_you|n800you prolly want to just read the  whole thing00:51
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rm_you|n800... is that a server split? :/00:51
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pH5|N810lardman: thanks. could you mail me your notes so I can fill in some blanks then? I'll do the same tomorrow when I get to them.00:52
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lardmanpH5|N810: DevInitMBX or MBXRegisterDevice?00:53
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pH5|N810I'll happily take whatever you have ;)00:54
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pH5|N810I still lack good disassembling tools that automate the symbol and string table lookup properly...00:54
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synth_ianrm_you: i saw was reading the log, and saw your idea for a planet-generating desktop applet, matching the LCARS default background. i had to log in to answer to your question, "how ridiculously awesome would that be"... that would be *very* ridiculously awesome. glad you like LCARS :)00:55
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lardmanWell MBXRegisterDevice calls MBXIsr then DevInitMBX and then optionally DevDeInitMBX and then GetDevSysPhyBaseMBX00:56
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pH5|N810really? to me it looks like it just registers the function pointers in some structure (struct device?)00:58
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pH5|N810and I couldn't find where MBXRegisterdevice is called from.00:59
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lardmanah indeed, my misread of my note00:59
rm_you|n800synth_ian: lol yes00:59
lardmansaves addresses of the functions00:59
rm_you|n800i was already working on the perlin noise stuff for an mmo project... and  it should be feasible.01:00
rm_you|n800synth_ian: did you see the demo i want to replicate? :P01:00
synth_ianyeah, i did :D01:01
jottpH5|N810: the MBXRegisterDevice fp is set in SysInitialise01:01
lardmanah init_module calls sysinitialise (name?) which then eventually calls MBXRegisterDevice01:01
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pH5|N810ok, I'll look at this again tomorrow. Although I don't quite like how this distracts me from playing with the DSP.01:01
pH5|N810jott: cool, thanks.01:02
rm_you|n800synth_ian: i'll keep you posted.01:02
lardmanpH5|N810: Did you see my post about framebuffer access, though you're on an n810 atm so not really applicable01:02
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lardmanI must work out how to do framebuffer access from the n8x0 at some point01:02
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pH5|N810yes I saw. is there a function in the dsp kernel to map memory ranges?01:03
johnxlardman, cat foo.jpg > /dev/fb0 doesn't work? :D01:03
jottjohnx: from the dsp not direct fb access ;)01:04
lardmanjohnx: harder opn the dsp ;)01:04
johnxaaah... :)01:04
pH5|N810I haven't really understood how the dsp accesses extmem at all. does it have its own mmu?01:04
lardmanpH5|N810: you have to use a linker command file, which the dsp_dld arm-side binary uses to setup the memory mapping01:04
lardmanpH5|N810: I thought they shared one, but I may be wrong01:05
lardman"may well be wrong" even :)01:05
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jotthmm ok the MBXRegisterDevice fp is stored in gpsSysData as it seems01:06
lcuk_3how big is the framebuffer inside the 2420, or does it hold a buffer on system memory?01:07
lardmanbuffer in system memory which is flushed to the device afaiu01:08
pH5|N810does anybody know what offset 0x300 to OMAP2_CM_BASE is on omap2430? I keep getting tangled in the interdependent include files of the kernel01:08
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lcuk_3so, best scenario you are gonna have to malloc an area, assign it to the powervr, throw some triangles in.  blit the first area onto omapfb memory and then tell the lcd to go?01:10
|tbb|rm_you have you tried youtube tablet-viewer?01:10
lardmanlcuk_3: pretty much01:10
lcuk_3i thought it was an internal to 2420 buffer.  actual memory onchip.  that way we flush from 2420 to our frame device01:10
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lcuk_3(that being a reasonable reason why it can only run 640*48001:11
lardmanpowervr has internal memory, but we presumably map some memory from that to sdram, we'd then need to blit that to the framebuffer in sdram, and that is flushed to the lcd controller01:11
lardmanthe size limitation is due to the bandwidth of the sdram->lcd controller link01:12
lcuk_3well if we were just mapping the memory from cpu to main memory, why couldnt we just give it the mmapped address of the actual omapfb?01:12
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lcuk_3save a whole layer of copying01:12
lardmanmight work, I've no idea01:12
lcuk_3but its all trivial until we get deeper in..01:13
lcuk_3im just looking at the omapfb at the momentwhich is why im askin..01:13
lardmanah ok, well yes that does sound reasonable01:13
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pH5|N810good night01:16
lcuk_3nite pH5|N81001:16
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lardmanlcuk_3: There's a function called HostUnmapFrmBufMemFromUserSpace01:21
lcuk_3how far through the exam are you?01:22
lardmanJust randomly browsing atm, I should go back to what I was doing - following from init_module; I was about 3 functions in01:23
lardmantrying to turn asm into intelligible structure is interesting01:24
lcuk_3i keep trying the same with the omapfb01:24
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lcuk_3tho im doing it from c..01:25
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lcuk_3its a good way for me to get to know the system01:25
lcuk_3i might try asm soon01:25
lardmanhmm, I wouldn't bother unless you have to01:25
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lcuk_3i do :) i want single bitplane turbo graphics01:26
lardmanah, well speed optimisation is one of those "have to" moments01:26
lcuk_3why send 16 bits per pixel when 1 will do01:26
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lardmanhave you looked at ssvb's mplayer code? He changes the fb format there01:27
lcuk_3yes - hes gone through a few ins and outs with it all01:27
lcuk_3ive got various snippets and notes and other stuff01:27
johnxmmm 1bit graphics...super fast fullscreen gameboy emulation :D01:28
lcuk_3im just getting the memory layouts for the required structs sorted without becoming a kernel mod01:28
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lcuk_3john, gameboy was just another 2bit handheld...01:28
lardmanbed time for mee too, see you chaps tomorrow01:28
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johnxah, well you could still simulate 2bit with dithering01:29
ryoohkiwhat's the max sd card for the n800?  can i put two 16gb sdhc cards into it?01:29
lcuk_3lol - 2bit is another option01:29
lcuk_3thats still 8x less data travelling over the memory->LCD link01:29
johnxryoohki, yes. or two 32GB SDHC cards when they come out.01:30
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jottsdl 8bit games would also get a nice boost when directly using an lcd format :)01:30
NaviYou know what would be fun?01:31
NaviCave Story01:31
johnxprogress = being able to do 8-bit graphics again ... heh01:31
jottjohnx: hehe indeed ;)01:31
lcuk_3if lower colors are required to get speed then whats the problem?01:32
johnxI remember getting my first 16MB graphics card and thinking "I'll *never* have to trade resolution and speed for color depth *ever* again!"01:32
jottno problem, but still funny when you remember the old times ;)01:32
lcuk_3i wrote a dithering function for character blocks on the spectrum.  i remember thinking i could make any color i wanted01:33
johnxlots of desktop/laptop LCDs still do dithering...01:33
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lcuk_3this one does doesnt it01:34
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chong-anyone know what causes the flasher program to exit with the following when updating to os2008 on a n800: Version of 'sw-release': <no version>01:49
GeneralAntillesWhat are you running?01:50
chong-chong@legolas:~/Desktop$ uname -a01:50
chong-Linux legolas 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Tue Dec 18 08:02:57 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux01:50
chong-ubuntu gutsy01:50
chong-i've tried the applicable troubleshooting listed on the wiki01:51
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GeneralAntillesWhat flasher command are you running?01:51
chong-mounting usbfs, patching the flasher etc...01:51
chong-GeneralAntilles, i'm following the instructions here:
chong-for the N80001:51
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GeneralAntillesYou make sure you included -F ?01:52
ryoohkijohnx: how come people talk about needing special software to access sdhc on the n800?01:52
chong-i copied and pasted the command so that doesn't include -F only -f01:52
GeneralAntillesryoohki, who?01:52
GeneralAntilles./flasher-2.0 -F <firmware> -f -R01:53
GeneralAntillesrun that.01:53
johnxryoohki, you just need the latest OS2007 or any OS200801:53
GeneralAntilleswell, 3.001:53
chong-GeneralAntilles, that's doing the trick01:54
GeneralAntillesYou forgot -F01:54
GeneralAntillesWhich points to the FIASCO image. ;)01:54
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chong-now to see if os2008 crashes my phone during pairing :x01:56
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GeneralAntilles<_< crappy phone.01:57
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chong-worked this time01:59
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chong-phone really doesnt like using bt and wifi at the same time though01:59
jotthm does anyone actually know of a plug/adapter that fits onto the n810 serial port?02:00
Navibt and wifi is really draining02:00
infobotNavi meant: bt and wifi are really draining02:00
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chong-Navi, they also run in the same part of the spectrum02:01
chong-i can't use my bt headset when my phone is connected to an access point02:01
GeneralAntillesjott, gotta build one.02:03
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|tbb|night all02:03
ryoohkiGeneralAntilles: i have two 16gb sdhc cards for my n800 os2008 and was unsure if they would work. johnx said they would work: "15:30 < johnx> ryoohki, yes. or two 32GB SDHC cards when they come out."02:04
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GeneralAntillesor two 64GB card02:04
GeneralAntillesor 128GB02:04
GeneralAntillesor 256GB :D02:04
derfThe SDHC standard maxes out at 32GB.02:05
ryoohkijohnx: so if i flash with the latest os2008( not sure what the version number is) then sdhc will work and there should be no unpleasant surprises02:05
GeneralAntillesSDHC maxes at 2048GB02:05
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johnxryoohki, that's correct. if you're really worried about it poke at and look at what cards people are using02:06
GeneralAntillesryoohki, SDHC has been in OS2007 for a while.02:06
derfI swear I remember reading 32, but Wikipedia now agrees with you.02:08
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johnxIt would have been pretty ridiculous of them to break backwards compatibility with SD and not have it fixed for at least a few years...02:10
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Navihaha, someone edited the wiki to agree with him02:19
Naviit's a conspiracy >:302:20
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GeneralAntillesBe nice if somebody could actually cite it either way02:28
GeneralAntillesbut it would be incredibly stupid of them to have only moved the bar up to 32GB02:28
* johnx googles02:30
Navigoogle says 3202:31
Navi32 is still quite a ways up from 2 and barely working 402:32
johnxyeah, I see 32GB as well from sandisk and kingston02:32
GeneralAntilles32gb released02:32
GeneralAntillesBut that's not indicating the limit of the spec.02:32
NaviI was reading from here
johnxGeneralAntilles, I'm reading their "specifications" PDFs02:32
johnxI wonder if they're just planning to switch filesystems for the 64GB cards or the whole electrical interface O_o02:33
Navithe current version of the specification is 32 max02:33
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johnxwow...well that was fantasically short sighted02:35
* johnx shakes head02:35
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GeneralAntillesIs it just a filesystem issue?02:36
jotthey if the consortium made up something that would last too long the consortium would loose its purpose ... it's just to secure the own job ;)02:37
cancerberohello. everybody02:37
johnxFAT32 supports up to 2048GB I thought...02:37
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NaviThey get monies for spec revisions02:38
cancerberowith the n810 can read and create files .doc nd .xls??02:38
NaviWith the appropriate software, yes02:39
johnxcancerbero, gnumeric is out already (which can work with .xls files) and abiword (which can read .doc) is in semi-closed beta02:39
NaviThe more I look into the tablets02:40
Navithe more I want to send a "fuck you" to the hildon interface02:40
johnxGeneralAntilles, reading "Physical Layer Simplified Specificatio Ver2.00" it looks like they might actually need to make some kind of change to the physical spec to support more than 32GB cards ... but hopefully it will just be a driver thing02:40
johnxNavi, what is it this time? :)02:41
NaviI'm not a fan of it02:41
johnxyeah...I really don't see why more people don't just rip off Palm whole-sale02:42
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GeneralAntillesPalm sucks. <_<02:43
johnxGeneralAntilles, the interface is nice for lots of stuff02:43
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GeneralAntillesFor PIM, basically.02:43
johnxdid you ever own a Palm OS device?02:43
Naviwrong question.02:44
GeneralAntillesBut doing anything remotely complex on Palm was always a pain for me.02:44
GeneralAntillesYeah, 3.02:44
johnxlike name one thing that was harder on palm and is actually easier in maemo?02:44
Navidamn it02:45
NaviThumbing around02:45
GeneralAntillesWeb browsing.02:45
Navityping medium length emails02:45
GeneralAntillesMultitasking. :P02:45
NaviRunning programs02:45
johnxNavi, the "tap the icon" bit was too hard?02:45
jottenjoying a high resolution display02:45
* jott pokes at 160x160 pixels :)02:46
johnxright, all are pretty trivial problems...if someone just ripped off palm with the intention of fixing a couple little things the world would be a better place02:46
Navijohnx, in different cases, my thumb was too big for different parts of the software interface02:46
GeneralAntillesIf you're gonna rip off02:46
GeneralAntillesrip off Newton02:46
NaviBeat up Martin02:47
jottGeneralAntilles: just run einstein :)02:47
Navi"Eat up Martha"02:47
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GeneralAntillesSimpsons dig at the Newton.02:48
NaviThat's what I think of when someone mentions the newton02:48
johnxanyways, emulators are a "head in the sand" approach to things02:48
johnx"I'll just hide here while someone else works out the way forward" then you take your head out of the sand and see that things got worse...02:48
* johnx really did want to try the newton but never got a chance02:49
johnxoh, GeneralAntilles it looks like the current physical layer spec for SDHC really does say 32GB for now O_o02:49
johnxI'm pretty sure it's something that can be addressed by drivers though02:49
Naviit'll be boosted when 32GB SDHC become standardized02:50
johnxwell they need to hurry the *(&$ up then02:50
Navithen the corporations get to go, "Oh yay, the saps bought our expensive SD cards... let's make more even more expensive!"02:50
johnxI assume it's so that people have to buy new cameras and mp3 players actually02:51
NaviFlash carts for the DS wasn't like that.02:51
NaviSDHC support through firmware update02:51
johnxright, for people who aren't trying to milk all the money out of you...02:52
NaviI buy my crap from Nokia, I'm used to getting milked :302:52
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johnxif you grab the PDF here: and turn to page 98 you get to see that C_SIZE+1 * 512KB = memory capacity but the upper 6bits of C_SIZE are currently undefined so 32GB is the max02:54
johnxneat, huh?02:54
jottjohnx: then go and fix wikipedia ;)02:55
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Naviwikipedia cannot be fixed02:55
Naviit's inherently flawed02:55
johnxto me it reads as "we could support more *right now* but we decided not to."02:55
johnxNavi, the world waits for your better alternative...02:55
jottjohnx: see me remark above ;p02:55
Naviand you read it right02:55
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Navidamn it02:56
johnxls: command not found. Go away!02:57
jottalias ls=sl02:58
infobotNavi meant: damn you02:58
Naviaw, doesn't work02:59
* jott had to install sl again and see if it still works :)03:00
Naviat least I haven't been using dir.03:01
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* jott packages sl for os2008 ;)03:01
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jott ;>03:04
ligerzero03installing java?03:05
Navijott, that was fast.03:05
johnxligerzero03, I'm not03:05
ligerzero03how do you?03:05
jotti am ;)03:05
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johnxligerzero03, for development or to run a specific program?03:06
jottNavi: it's just a very trivial command line tool to annoy people who mistype ;)03:07
Navijott, you totally sidetracked me03:09
jotthaha ;)03:09
Navimy usb cable is giving out03:09
johnxmaybe it's just coiled too tightly and the data is falling off on the bends? :P03:10
ligerzero03nah it's just tired of the tight corners03:11
johnxalso: don't shake hard drives or all the data will fall off.03:11
jottor it always wanted to be a parallel cable and has it's coming out now ;)03:11
johnxas geeks, it's important for us to spread misinformation about technology03:12
GeneralAntillesAmen, johnx!03:12
GeneralAntillesWouldn't want to be out of a job.03:12
johnxdo you really think car mechanics all tell the truth?03:12
ligerzero03you forget to format a drive you have to take your hard drive to the laundromat and put your hard drive in for dry cleaning.03:12
glassnot about the geeky bits, sw upgrade is very serious business on a car ;)03:13
lcuk_3the problem is computers CAN be tough.  now cars have computers even the mechanics are beginning to come to us03:13
egsavageI'm about to try to install OS2008 HE on my N770 with a 2GB Mobile MMC card and am wondering... Which is the _best_ guide on doing that now? I ran across a couple guides on the web but am not sure which is considered the best.03:13
johnxlcuk_3, have you seen what an ECU looked like, circa 1982 or so? craziness!03:13
GeneralAntillesHe's got OS2008HE!03:13
GeneralAntillesMOB HIM!03:13
johnxegsavage, 2007HE I assume?03:14
egsavageoh, did I mistype? ;-)03:14
egsavage2007HE, sorry ;-)03:14
egsavagewish i had 200803:14
egsavagefreudian slip03:14
johnxit'd be pretty heavy on a 77003:14
lcuk_3is it just a full recompile, or is it fixing the closed source bits as well?03:14
NaviIt's sexiness is overwhelming03:14
GeneralAntillesThat creeps me out.03:15
NaviToo used to not using the last forward slash03:15
egsavageso which guide is best for getting a dual boot going for a 2GB M-MMC card on a N770?03:15
lcuk_3johnx, not a specific model but its like the "driver board" on a printer.  they are just black boxen to mechanics03:15
NaviOh yeah, I've seen that03:15
johnxlcuk_3, well, they're embedded electronics. they're pretty much a blackbox to *anyone*...I think the only thing anyone cares about them for is what trouble codes they're emitting03:16
GeneralAntillesWell, or haxing for more HP.03:17
jottjohnx: it's alot of reverse-engineering to do that ;)03:17
johnxGeneralAntilles, that is an awesome video03:17
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egsavageis this one considered current?
jottjohnx: the guy did alot of funny stuff03:18
johnxthat guy is doing some really neat stuff03:19
jottthe "Low-Cost Multi-point Interactive Whiteboards Using the Wiimote" is also nice03:19
GeneralAntillesThere's so much untapped potential with the Wii.03:20
jottit's on my todo list on things to build ;)03:20
johnxGeneralAntilles, and they're closer to easy-homebrew on the console itself as well :D03:21
jotthehe well all the stuff he did does not even need a wii ;)03:21
jottjust a wiimote03:21
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GeneralAntillesWell, sure, but the Wii made it cheap and easy to find.03:21
GeneralAntillesWish there were more gutsy game developers to take advantage of it.03:22
lcuk_3the wiimote was invented with one purpose.  light sabre.  now i have that, my gaming experience is complete03:24
* lcuk_3 wears his jedi cloak when playing03:25
GeneralAntilleslcuk_3, did you ever get an opportunity to try one of those LED lightsabers?03:25
lcuk_3yes ive got my proper luke skywalker one and ive got a wii light sword03:25
lcuk_3the lightsword though impears the signal to the wii03:26
lcuk_3it is defective :|03:26
GeneralAntillesMy friends and I used to go downtown and duel with them in high school.03:26
lcuk_3i faught darth vader the other night at a great party03:26
GeneralAntillesIt's too bad they're not very durable.03:27
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lcuk_3yer, the vader one broke...03:27
jotthehe what a crap ;)03:28
lcuk_3the most random thing about that night was the fact darth vader was also the barman for part of the evening03:28
GeneralAntillesI ended up taking mine apart to repair the LEDs about a half-dozen times.03:28
jott(the design flaw)03:28
lcuk_3you are not a true jedi until you can build (or fix) your own sabre03:28
lcuk_3GeneralAntilles, read the review on that link i gave, thats the problem i had03:29
ryoohkianyone know why nokia wants your product ID( wlan mac address) for the os2008 download?03:30
GeneralAntillesI was contemplating filling it with resin or something03:30
johnxomg, i think I finally got webkit-gtk to build O_o03:30
GeneralAntillesbut it would just mess up the balance.03:30
GeneralAntillesSend it here!03:30
jottjohnx: congratulation :p03:30
johnxGeneralAntilles, some libs compiled for zaurus? :P03:30
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lcuk_3just put a proper sabre inside it03:30
* jott should svn up && make the webkit-gtk too03:31
GeneralAntillesWhere's my EAL Webkit?03:31
johnxGeneralAntilles, I have no real interested in EAL...03:31
johnxas much as people knock autotools it worked pretty much out of the box when I switched from qmake to autotools03:31
jottjohnx: well qmake for building webkit-gtk is not maintained anymore :)03:32
jottthe qt build runs nice with qmake :>03:32
johnxyeah, I was trying to not have to do too much work in OE, making a new .bb and all...but using autotools turned out to be less work03:33
jotthehe yeah..  gtk should be removed from the qmake buildsystem all along to prevent confusion and strange errors03:35
jottor switch everything to cmake ;>03:35
acydlordhave you guys read up about the new internet freedom preservation act yet?03:35
johnxI read the /. summary03:35
NaviFreedom sucks03:35
tank-manwhat is better than freedom?03:36
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johnxNavi, can I have a temporary feeling of security in return for my future freedom and privacy?03:36
johnxthat sounds like a good trade to me...03:36
tank-mani'm ok with slavery, i buy made in china all the time03:36
acydlordyou forgot liberty03:36
Navijohnx, yes, you can.03:36
* Navi takes away johnx's freedom and privacy03:37
* Navi gives johnx a glock in return03:37
acydlordthere is something unnerving with the fact that my local representative is "representative flake"03:37
GeneralAntillesEw Glock.03:38
johnxrepresentative flake: never more than one standard deviation away from the average flake!03:38
NaviWarzone 2100 any fun?03:38
NaviI don't trust GeneralAntilles03:38
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NaviHe's a general, after all.03:38
acydlordhe could be a generalization03:39
GeneralAntillesMine isn't a political position.03:39
Navistill reason enough to cast doubt03:40
* GeneralAntilles throws doubt at Navi.03:40
* Navi catches doubt03:40
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* Navi sneases03:40
* acydlord tries to cast doubt but doesnt have enough SP03:40
Navis/sneases/sneezes/03:41 android sdk03:41
jottjohnx: with the new ui?03:41
johnxlooks like :)03:41
NaviI wonder how Google's going to stick their ads on03:41
jottand finally the sources? ;)03:41
johnxhaven't looked yet but I think no sources for now03:42
jotthaha just kidding "open" means "closed" where as "closed" means "patented" ;)03:42
Naviclosed open source03:42
Navis/closed open/patented closed/03:42
infobotNavi meant: patented closed source03:42
johnxjott, they have committed to opening all (most?) under the apache license03:43
jottjohnx: i know.. well we still have to see what the commitment is worth03:43
johnxI'm willing to be we'll see all of the android source before we see all the maemo source03:44
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jottwell quim made it clear that they have no intention of releasing anything..03:45
GeneralAntillesIs never before never?03:45
jott*ever* ;)03:45
Navis/never/Duke Nukem Forever/g03:46
johnxyeah...I'm still deciding on what to do in terms of Debian on the N800...whether to try and use the parts of hildon that are open or not bother at all and just do xfce or matchbox or something :/03:46
lcuk_3s/never/duke nukem forever on the hud of my flying car/g03:46
Navilcuk_3, cannot find pattern03:47
jottwell it would be more debian if all closed parts would be killed :)03:47
NaviI'd like the hildon keyboard03:47
Navithat's the only part of it that I like03:47
johnxNavi, that is pretty nice..I have mixed feelings about sapwood03:48
* jott pokes into the dsme blob03:48
* GeneralAntilles watches the blob poke back.03:48
* jott evades03:48
Navithe rest should go the debian netinstall way03:49
johnxjott, do you have a feeling for how much of the power management needs specific poking of dsme to work and how much just works automagically?03:49
jotthm i would guess one could get quite alot working without dsme03:50
johnxyou mean without it running at all?03:50
jotti hope so..03:50
NaviPeople are talking too much, I can't keep up with conversations03:50
johnxwell battery charging needs bme and for some reason I thought bme needed dsme03:50
johnxmaybe I misunderstood03:51
jottbut not sure about this.. we should look into the dsme binary03:51
jottmaybe it's just some kernel methods/ioctls03:51
johnxif we try and kill off dsme I think we'll need to turn off watchdog-timeout-reboot03:51
johnxsomeone on maemo devel list said that dsme wouldn't be that hard to replace03:52
jottyeah in the end the watchdog will only harm..03:52
johnxwhat I don't understand is if dsme causes dvfs stuff to take place or whether the kernel just handles it behind the scenes03:55
jotthmm atleast dsme has debug symbols in it03:56
johnxoh, that's nice03:56
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jotthm so everthing goes through the libstartup that in turn loads other modules?!03:58
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jotthmm most of the modules look quite trivial04:04
jottthey just seem to be some wrapper around sysfs ;)04:06
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johnxwell I know brightness has controls in sysfs04:07
johnxif I can do this in a couple sh scripts I'll be grinning for days04:08
jotthehe04:08 seems to handle brightness04:09
johnxthere's a patch to bring dpms into xomap04:09
johnxbrightness is pretty much a solved problem I think04:09
jottmore or less, yeah04:10
jottstill the module also uses /dev/fb0 :>04:11
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jottbesides /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/panel/backlight_level04:11
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johnxwell there's the rtc04:13
jotti suppose you can disable the lcd via /dev/fb0 ioctl stuff, right?04:15
jott(that should be easy to find out as the kernel parts are open ;-)04:15
johnxand so is the x server (thank god!) O_o04:15
johnxfound the temp sensor in sys04:16
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johnxI think it just outputs Celsius with a couple extra digits tacked on04:16
johnxmaybe if we just ignore dsme it will go away :D04:16
jottjohnx: for some little infos: strings /mnt/initfs/usr/lib/dsme/*.so04:17
jott(grep sys e.g. ;-)04:17
johnxthat's what I'm reading :D04:17
johnxone term for reading strings, one for poking at sysfs04:18
* jott still wonders what the benefit of this whole dsme system is :P04:20
johnxthe cynic in me says obfuscation04:20
johnxalso, keeping binary, proprietary stuff out of the kernel04:21
jottyeah well in the end it's not *that* much proprietary stuff in there04:21
jottjust some infrastructure and obfuscation ;)04:21
johnxI'm still fuzzy on how bme interacts with the whole mess04:22
johnxit definitely links to
jottlibdsme is used for the socket communication04:22
jottthat in turn is just the dsme04:22
jottthat loads the libs in the initfs04:22
jottatleast thats what i guess04:22
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* johnx reads past articles on mailing list04:27
johnxpeople agree that bme seems to be the hard part...but don't really say how much stuff is in bme to begin with04:28
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jottyeah hard to tell.. a quit objdump is not as easy to parse as the dsme stuff ;)04:28
infobotjott meant: yeah hard to tell.. a quick objdump is not as easy to parse as the dsme stuff ;)04:28
johnxOT: I'm really surprised that the 770 hasn't spawned even one real alternative distro while each zaurus had maybe half a dozen in their day04:31
GeneralAntillesjohnx, community size?04:32
johnxI wonder if it's because Nokia's Maemo/ITOS was actually good enough or what...04:32
johnxGeneralAntilles, hmm...maybe04:32
GeneralAntillesOr ITOS is actually OK, too.04:32
jottit's not size that matters :P04:32
johnxmaybe a device without a keyboard just doesn't draw the hardcore Linux crowds04:33
GeneralAntillesA bit of both sounds like a safe answer.04:33
Takitos is pretty nice for the most part04:35
johnxTak, it really is, for the most part04:36
Takanybody know how to keep the opera backend from re-rendering 10x before a page loads?04:36
GeneralAntillesIs there a setting for delay in the config file?04:36
TakI didn't see one - I'm trying to search ITT, but I'm on the tablet...04:37
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GeneralAntillesBeen a long time since I used Opera04:40
* Tak nods04:41
jotti hope we can get rid of firefox in the near future..04:41
johnxjott, me too O_o04:41
GeneralAntillesWhat Firefox? :P04:41
TakI remember seeing a hack ages ago04:41
jottwhat ever ;)04:41
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jottthis bulky thing with the bulky slow browsers using it ;)04:41
johnxepiphany-webkit works so well on the tablet in maps is actually *usable*04:41
Takon the pc side, ff3 is pretty snappy04:42
NaviI suppose04:42
Navi1.9 is an improvement on 1.804:42
jottif they would not use gtk i would might even use it on my desktop ;)04:43
Takjohnx: what's all working in debian now?04:43
johnxTak, everything but sound output (which might be close)04:43
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GeneralAntillesMicroB is 1.904:43
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Naviwhich is nice... Gecko's been getting slower since forever04:43
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NaviGeneralAntilles, I know04:43
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johnxand sometimes hardware buttons don't work until you restart the x server...04:44
Takthat's killer - anybody using it on 770?04:44
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NaviUnfortunately, it doesn't match webkit in terms of size and speed04:44
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johnxTak, debian? b0unc3 has at least tested it, but I haven't heard from anyone else :/04:44
johnxI'd actually like to get my hands on a 770 to test on, but I can't really justify the purchase right now04:45
TakI see - what about power management?04:45
johnxwell, actually jott and I are looking at that right now :P04:45
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NaviIf I wanted an IT right _now_, I could get a 77004:46
GeneralAntillesEw gross04:46
GeneralAntillesDon't do it!04:46
NaviBut I must submit to peer pressure and listen to GeneralAntilles04:46
johnxstill looks like $100 on ebay :/04:47
Naviit is04:47
Naviamazon too, I believe04:47
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jottparty time ;>04:48
johnxthere's enough sold that I assume I'll be able to pick one up later04:48
johnxthe hardware buttons look soooo much nicer on the 770 vs the n80004:48
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NaviI like the 770's form overall04:48
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Navisexy black over geeky silverish gray04:48
TakI agree04:48
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NaviEpic split04:49
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GeneralAntillesNavi, stop playing with the routers.04:56
NaviSorry. I'm done04:56
* Navi goes back to reading N800 reviews04:57
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NaviNew internet meme: "So the N800..."04:59
rm_youyeah i'm going to need one of each eventually :/04:59
j0ttthis bme binary is really ugly :/04:59
johnxj0tt, I imagine so05:01
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rm_youjohnx: whats the stuff called... with the rice... and the mix thing... and the green tea...05:09
Proteoushow big of a memory card would I need to test debian on my 770?05:10
rm_youit finally came to me05:10
johnx1GB if you use my tarball05:10
johnxa reasonable minimum would fit in 512MB05:10
Proteoussince I'm probably not going to buy an 810 soon I might as well get a bigger mem card for my 77005:10
johnxand maybe if I squished it quite a lot *something* would fit in 256MB...05:10
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ProteousI only have the stock 64 meg card :P05:11
Proteousa 2 gig one is pretty cheap05:11
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johnxah, I can't work miracles05:11
ProteousI don't expect you too05:11
Proteousgot my appleTV delivered today !05:11
Proteoushaven't hooked it up yet05:11
Proteousalso haven't started haxoring it up yet05:11
ryoohkiI'm fixing to "./flasher-3.0 -F <firmware> -f -R"... What the latest OS2008 on ?05:14
ryoohkiWhy does nokia want to know your wlan mac address?05:15
GeneralAntillesSo they can tell if you have a device?05:15
Proteousto make sure you have a real nokia tablet and are not just downloading the update05:15
Proteousalso to report you to the NSA05:15
ryoohkiso what's the url for the latest os2008?05:15
Proteousso they can track your every move through thier covert system of wifi access points05:16
johnxjust go to and look up the one that says "latest"05:16
rm_youjohnx: AIM me a link to the tarball so i can put it on my flash later05:16
rm_youor a link to the thread or something05:16
ryoohkiRX-34_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ?05:17
ProteousI have my brothers WSODed 77005:17
johnxryoohki, yes05:17
johnxProteous, aaah...that will be tough05:18
johnxif you try debian I'll give you a hack to get usb networking up early in the boot process05:19
Proteouswell, I have one that works05:19
ProteousI also have my brothers that doesn't05:19
johnxwell, why make it easy? :P05:19
johnxthat's like cheating05:19
Proteousso true05:19
Proteouswith debian on there who needs a screen?05:19
Proteousjust need usb networking and ssh05:20
Proteousput apache on there or something...05:20
johnxyeah, it will make a nice little portable web server once you bring up wireless05:20
ProteousI can have it beep out morse code of output, and use morse code tap on the screen for input05:21
infobotProteous meant: I can have it beep out morse code for output, and use morse code tap on the screen for input05:21
Proteousthat would make IRC fun05:21
johnxjust use text to speech05:21
Proteousthere's no mic05:22
ProteousI could use a bluetooth headset I guess05:22
johnxI thought there was a mic?05:22
Proteousis there?05:22
Proteousgoogle says maybe yes05:23
johnxlinuxdevices says yes :)05:23
GeneralAntillesThere's a mic on every NIT ever produced.05:24
Proteousit also says it has stereo speakers...05:24
GeneralAntillesDon't mistake the 770's for a reset port, please.05:24
GeneralAntillesOn 3.5mm it does, Proteous. ;)05:24
Proteousmaybe they ment stereo speaker05:24
Proteousit has a stereo headphone output05:24
Proteousbut only one speaker05:24
GeneralAntillesThe N800's stereo separation is really awesome when you put your nose to the screen.05:25
ProteousI did think the mic hole was a reset button05:26
tank-mani love the n800's speakers, they are so loud05:26
Proteousalthough I never tried to press it :P05:26
TakGeneralAntilles: plus that's a great way to type on the fullscreen kb05:29
ryoohkihow long does flashing take for the n800?05:30
GeneralAntillesGets greasy fast. <_>05:30
GeneralAntilles30 seconds?05:30
Takwell, wash your nose!05:34
johnxwoo! midori on zaurus is *usable* as a web browser05:34
johnxand it only takes ~40MB while running05:35
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johnxpretty much05:37
Navicompared to unusable?05:37
dskippyDoes anyone know if the level element is in gstreamer maemo? I can't find it. It's usually in plugins-good05:37
johnxcompared to basically any other browser on the zaurus, it works better05:38
johnxNavi, you have no idea... *shakes head*05:38
Naviof course not05:38
johnxNokia has actually accomplished quite a bit in getting *good* web browsing on the NITs...05:39
j0ttjohnx: run this on your z ;)
j0tt or better the texture version :)05:43
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johnxyeah right05:47
johnxgoogle maps is painfully slow05:48
johnxlike 1 frame every 5 seconds05:48
j0ttso no playable canvas shooter?! :/05:48
johnxI'll try it if you really want05:49
johnxit will probably render...05:49
j0tthehe well yeah as there is no fps display its not worth it i guess ;)05:49
j0ttbut maybe it well be blazing fast :>05:49
johnxI think there's something holding up screen refreshes05:50
johnxepiphany-webkit seemed to be faster in debian/zaurus actually than midori on angstrom/zaurus05:50
j0ttsvn webkit?05:50
johnxI will need to check on that actually05:50
johnxmy dependencies might have gotten screwed up and I *might* have an old webkit installed while I built with a new one05:51
johnxmy gut feeling is that it might be a midori thing vs epiphany...05:52
johnxstill the rendering speed is reasonable, just the refresh isn't that fast05:52
johnxengadget is my usual test for "big bloated site" and midori has no problem with it05:52
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johnxtried it, maybe up to 2fps if I do only small movements05:56
johnxanyways, have to go to work, will be back later tonight, maybe05:56
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Navivery much so06:10
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rm_youthat's awesome06:21
rm_youin the way that i want to go kill some people06:22
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dskippyDoes anyone know if I can capture the HOME key and prevent it from doing anything while my program is running?06:55
Proteousprobably not06:55
Proteousbut I"m not sure06:55
dskippyIt seems to be the only button that I can't stop06:56
ProteousI also don't seem to lift of the shift key fast enough06:56
joebloewas thinking about upgrading to OS2008 on n800 ... has anyone had problems with reverting back to 2007 ?06:57
acydlordso it seems06:57
GeneralAntillesYou can swap back and forth without trouble.06:58
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kajeAnyone in here own an n810?07:01
kajecan you tell me which SD card I should get (micro or mini)? I really don't want a card that is sticking halfway out07:02
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GeneralAntillesEither or07:03
GeneralAntillesIt's a minisd slot07:03
GeneralAntillesbut micro cards work fine with an adaptor.07:03
Proteousmicro < mini07:03
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kajeso either will not be sticking out of the device?07:03
Proteouswell, the micro will have to go in a mini sized adaptor07:03
GeneralAntillesIt's minisd slot, why would a minisd card stick out?07:04
kajegreat... are you glad you bought the device? I'm on the verge of buying one07:04
Proteousbecause it put on a few pounds07:04
acydlordi like my n81007:05
Proteouswho can afford such excess07:05
kajesince I can use either micro or mini does one have an advantage over the other?07:06
acydlordbut... honestly... if it hadnt been for the developer discount i problably would have stuck with my n800 for another year07:06
acydlordmicro can fit in most newer cell phones07:06
Proteouswierdly, it seems like the larger capacity cards are micro07:06
GeneralAntillesMiniSD doesn't really have much of a purpose.07:07
Proteoushow much was the developer discount?07:07
Navimicros work the best for multiple devices07:07
acydlordi wish it had full sizesd07:07
acydlordcause i've seen sd cards up to 32gb07:07
Navithere's always adapters07:07
ProteousSd to micro adaptors?07:07
acydlorddeveloper discount knocked it down to $160USD after everything07:07
Proteousthat's quite a discount07:07
Navimicro -> normal07:07
kajewow, where can I get that discount!? hehe07:07
acydlordkaje, if you have access to a time machine, september would be a start :p07:08
kajethanks a bunch for all the help guys07:08
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joebloedoesn't the n800 only have 128mb ram .. upgraded to OS2008 .. and it reads 251.5MB "device memory" ?08:05
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GeneralAntillesFlash. . . .08:10
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NaviOh, device memory :o08:10
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irqueever since i made my n810 boot from SD, application manager will sometimes fail to install/update a package with an odd error message:08:17
irquedpkg-deb (subprocess): error in buffer_read(stream): failed to write to pipe in copy: Input/output error08:17
irqueever see that before?08:18
irqueit doesn't say what path it is failing to write to, etc08:18
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irqueand i've ruled out filesystem corruption08:18
irqueany ideas?08:21
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irqueah i think i  figured it out, it's trying to use a named pipe on a vfat fs08:27
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irqueand we all know that the only named pipe microsoft is familiar with is Crackpipe08:28
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irquenow i just need to figure out why application manager insists on using /media/mmc108:30
irqueany idea  how i can change that setting?08:31
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irqueyup, that fixed it!08:35
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irquethere's an option in prefs for app manager (only accessible in red pill mode) that says to download packages to mmc. i turned that off and now my problem is gone.08:36
irquethough no one here helped me, i thank you, #maemo08:36
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rm_youno LCARS iconset till tomorrow :(09:20
sxpertboohoo !!09:21
inzyay, the world is safe for one morre day09:22
rm_youi'll do it tomorrow, really :P09:23
GeneralAntillesYou get the code figured out?09:23
rm_youdidn't really have time09:23
rm_youhad some womenfolk over <_<09:23
GeneralAntillesGood enough excuse. :P09:24
rm_youwell, one. anyways, hard to code in that environment :P09:24
Lurialcars is back?09:25
GeneralAntillesand better than ever.09:25
rm_youbbl, i have an appointment with my pillow for the next 7 hours09:27
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solmumahainternet is broken :(09:28
solmumahainz: have any problems with foreign connections?09:28
|tbb|morning all09:29
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inzsolmumaha, at least google works here a-ok09:29
solmumahai can't access anything outside finland atm09:30
inzsolmumaha, no idea what operator i am using though, just that the wlan is called "default" ;)09:30
solmumahai bet it's not sonera09:30
inzno traceroute on the device09:32
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inzsolmu, seems to be elisa09:33
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solmumahak, prolly just the storm then09:34
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b0unc3good morning10:30
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oilinkianyone using pidgin with IRC proxy?10:55
oilinkihow to avoid parting the channel when pidgin is closed?10:56
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wwpoilinki: how would you remain connected to IRC if you quit your IRC client?10:59
oilinkiwwp: with irc-proxy (using miau currently).11:00
wwpif you use a proxy to bounce your IRC connection, it's up to the proxy to keep you alive11:00
wwptried killing pidgin instead of quitting? ;)11:00
oilinkieg. the proxy is keeping it up11:00
oilinkiwwp: heh. I suppose I need to do that :)11:00
wwpeheh maybe11:00
wwpnot sure, if the proxy doesn't keep you alive, the IRC server will shoot your nick after a timeout11:01
oilinkibut anyway. with xchat, ircII etc.  this works fine.11:01
oilinkibut when pidgin is closed the app sends /part or /leave message to the channels.. and all my other clients get kicked out as well11:02
doc|homefucker just chewed one of my styluses11:02
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oilinkidoc|home: well, you'll know where to put the spare ;)11:02
doc|homeoilinki: yeah, good thing I put it aside :( know where I can get spares?11:03
TobotrasIs there any web-camera apps f/maemo?11:03
doc|homeTobotras: has at least one11:03
oilinkidoc|home: sorry, don't know. nokiashop maybe?11:03
doc|homethanks, will look11:04
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Tobotrasdoc|home: any hints on name? :)11:14
Tobotrasdoc|home: ok, found it, thanks11:15
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lcuk_3gah!!! xchat is flashing but its gone from scrollback11:27
lcuk_3(hates that)11:27
JaffaMorning, all11:27
Jaffalcuk_3: check the log on the web?11:27
lcuk_3mornin jaff, i would do if it was important, and quicker i could check my local disk log but its like a needle in a haystack without local highlighting11:28
* lcuk_3 takes a philosophical view and thinks ppl will call back if its important ;)11:29
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|tbb|my sylog of desktop pc says ->  kernel: [10216.501687] usb0: no IPv6 routers present11:52
|tbb|what could i do to fix that11:52
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:55
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felipecbuenos dias AD-N77011:58
solmumaha|tbb|: disable ipv611:59
playya2anyone tried to install build depencies for osso-rss-feed-reader in scratchbox?12:04
playya2cant find osso-rss-feed-reader-l10n-mr0 in the reposittories12:04
|tbb|solmumaha: could u tell me how?12:10
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solmumaha|tbb|: blacklist ipv6 module?12:16
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LinuxCodemorning all12:16
LinuxCodeis it just me...or can it be that GPS pathc drains your battery ?!?!12:16
LinuxCodeI think I will have to reflash12:16
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Juhazit probably drains your battery because now you're actually using the gps ;)12:18
LinuxCodeno more like it never switches off..hence its faster but also drains the battery12:18
LinuxCodewhich sucks if the N810 only lasts a day12:18
LinuxCodegps is no priority12:19
LinuxCodebesides...around this neck of the woods I cant get a lock12:19
LinuxCodeso its pointless12:19
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wwphmm googling didn't help me knowing if a libxlst is really available for chinook. anyone has a hint?12:21
|tbb|solmumaha: sorry got no clue havent activate it by myself12:22
solmumahawhat distribution?12:26
|tbb|ubuntu gutsy12:26
solmumahaecho "blacklist ipv6" >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist12:26
LinuxCodethats one thing I would like to see in the N81012:27
LinuxCodeso I can tunnel ipv6 over openvpn12:27
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playya2where can i find the osso-rss-feed-reader-l10n-mr0 package and all depencies?12:34
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michele_well, I skimmed through the "what would you like in the N900" thread and it's amazing how people can be out of touch with reality12:34
LinuxCodemichele_, I want a burger maker in it please12:36
LinuxCodeand a microwave12:36
LinuxCodeon a serious note.... Id like it to have bash instead of busyboxes ash12:36
playya2after the new patents of nokia you will slide it in 5 directions an fold it like a folding ruler12:36
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LinuxCodemorning |tbb|12:37
michele_LinuxCode: there is no real reason to have bash. the only people who'd want it can easily install it by themselves12:38
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jkuLinuxCode, do you know how slow bash is?12:39
LinuxCodejku, maybe...12:40
LinuxCodebut its more usable12:40
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LinuxCodeeven if it was optional12:40
LinuxCodethat be nice12:40
LinuxCodelet people chose12:40
LinuxCodeI like choice12:40
trickiethere was a package for OS2007 IIRC12:40
hrwLinuxCode: and you have choice12:41
hrwchoice to install bash from network or not to install12:41
LinuxCodefrom network ?12:42
hrwfeeds, repositories etc12:42
LinuxCodeit onflicts with busybox12:42
hrwits busybox which conlicts with bash12:42
jkubut that's a bug in busybox packaging, not a reason to change to bash12:43
LinuxCodestill doesnt let you install it though12:43
hrwLinuxCode: unless you are familiar with vi and packaging system12:43
LinuxCodejku, we arent talking about each others personal preferences here12:43
LinuxCodehrw, if it was rpm Id repackage it12:44
LinuxCodei had a quick look at deb12:44
LinuxCodewould have to sit down and figure that out12:44
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hrwthere are many things done in wrong way in maemo world12:45
LinuxCodehrw, tbh I think its done on idiots dont brick their devices and then go crying to Nokia12:45
hrwLinuxCode: its not so easy12:46
hrwAngström, OpenSlug, OpenZaurus, Familiar distros have/had it done more properly12:46
hrwDebian has it done properly12:46
LinuxCodebut you know what some people manage to do...12:46
hrwmaemo fscked it12:46
LinuxCodeI must buy a sd micro card so I can smack some other distros on12:48
LinuxCodestill eager to see how fedora works12:48
LinuxCodebut its good to see most major distros are now venturing into the mobile device sector12:49
hrwfedora does not support arm12:49
LinuxCodenot support...but develop12:49
LinuxCode <-------12:49
hrwwant bash for os2008?12:49
LinuxCodeits in the repo12:50
LinuxCodecant you force an install ?12:50
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LinuxCodeyou can force installs with rpm12:50
LinuxCodeor use a --nodeps option12:50
LinuxCodesure apt must have something like that12:51
hrwdpkg has12:51
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LinuxCodeahh yes12:51
LinuxCodedpkg sorry12:51
LinuxCodemight try that then12:51
LinuxCodewhen I have a little time12:51
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Spakman_does anyone know if lynx is in any repository?14:41
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johnxSpakman, no lynx but there is links14:59
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Takugh - my build works if I do `make distclean; ./configure; make` but not if I do `dpkg-buildpackage -rsudo`15:05
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|tbb|hey tak15:06
Takhello |tbb|15:06
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Spakman_johnx: thanks a lot. I found a .deb on garage.15:20
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TobotrasNo wokring camera app for os2008 :(15:22
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* pupnik tries to understand where the computer is in the n81015:28
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hrwTobotras: really?15:32
hrwTobotras: I have camera on n810 working15:32
Tobotrashrw: using what?15:33
StskeepsTobotras: , - can possibly build something with that? i saw a camera app in repository though too?15:34
Zero_Doggme too, nokia shipped some program in one of the repos15:34
Drag0sHello. Where can I an evince os 2008 unstable repo/package?15:34
TobotrasStskeeps: that's for os200715:35
StskeepsTobotras: works just fine on os200815:35
Stskeepsjust tested it15:35
Stskeepsatleast the python version15:36
TobotrasStskeeps: oh!15:36
hrwTobotras: camera app15:39
hrw chinook/user Packages15:39
hrwthere is camera app15:39
jkuStskeeps, that document is available for 4.0 too, suggest using that (there could be changes)15:41
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Tobotrashrw: like others, cannot grab camera [after SIP client pops up]15:43
Tobotrasup to rebot15:44
StskeepsTobotras: from somewhere: . Disable video chat from loading on camera coming out "gconftool-2 --set --type bool '/system/osso/af/launch-on-camera' 'false'"15:44
TobotrasStskeeps: that's it, thanks15:44
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Zero_DoggAnyone have any clue how to use the Norwegian keys on the N810 slide-out keyboard? They've put all of the scandinavian countries into one keyboard setting, and the keys "æ" and "ø" thus doesn't work15:47
hrwZero_Dogg: the hw keyboard mapping suxx15:48
hrwZero_Dogg: tried Chr+r for "ø"?15:48
Zero_Dogghrw: I've noticed :/15:48
hrwZero_Dogg: you can need to press chr+r few times to get your r-thing15:49
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Zero_Dogghrw: ah, bah. Chr+the ø button yields ø. That's silly, because the char that appears when I just press the button is never ever used in Norwegian :/15:49
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TobotrasHeh. Still camera works only once after boot, next invocation yields v4l2_next: VIDIOC_DQBUF: Input/output error15:50
hrwZero_Dogg: I would like to know how to edit that list so for my Polish keymap chr+o would give ó in first place15:50
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Zero_Dogghrw: does it, so might be possible to just look at the source of that and modify it15:51
hrwukeyboard allow to use other keymaps then official ones15:51
hrwbut even if my keymap has 'æ' on Chr+c it will not give it at first press15:53
hrwkeyboard handling is not solved in maemo in good way15:54
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|tbb|is down?15:59
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Zero_DoggWhat is the issue with any way? Is it actually running on an N800 or something?16:03
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mwaldronthat's why they upped the clockspeed for the 800 in os2008, to improve performance of maemo.org16:04
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|tbb|it cant be a n810 cause there is not enough storage possibility (only one sdcard slot :)16:09
pupnik_why do I see 4 clients on my network with kismet :|16:09
pupnik_only 1 tablet connected16:10
|tbb|your neighbors ;)16:10
mwaldroni saw this morning there are 8gb microSDHC cards. so where are our 16gb minisdhc? :)16:10
* mwaldron is patiently awaiting a kismet package16:10
Navithat crap is so expensive.16:11
mwaldronnods dammit i typed nods16:11
hrw32GB sdhc exists in SD format...16:12
mwaldrongoing to be one of those days16:12
mwaldroni picked up a 4gb minisdhc for $18. i can wait a bit for more storage16:12
NaviI've always been able to fit my life within 10GB sans the music collection16:12
Naviand the anime16:12
mwaldroni do wish the 810 had a microsdhc for it's 'internal' memory, hiding under teh battery16:13
NaviI'm pretty content16:14
pupnik_ahh kismet is finding the MAC addresses of the LAN devices on the router - router broadcasting Routing info16:14
NaviThe 2GB internal memory is enough for me16:14
NaviOf course, I don't have an N810, so what do I know?16:15
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|tbb|pupnik_ your luck ;)16:18
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mwaldronso far i like my 81016:18
mwaldronbut i need to stop complaining about lack of vpn and get it working16:18
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ol_schoolawhat is the status of openVPN on os2008? i've been distracted by my AppleTV lately and haven't checked in at ITT in a while16:20
mwaldroni think openvpn works16:21
mwaldroni need ms pptp though16:21
mwaldroni saw packages for openvpn anyway16:21
VeggenHmm. I should get around to setting up openvpn at home.16:21
Veggencan you bridge through openvpn?16:22
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mwaldroni use it at home (via sveasoft linksys) and we use it here at work too16:22
mwaldroni could change home, but not work16:22
Veggen...i.e. can you make those upnp-filebrowsing/multimedia-stuff work through it?16:22
mwaldronwell, i could, but my boss prolly not like me much fi i did16:22
K-Foxis it possible to listen lastfm on canola2 ?16:22
K-Foxvagalume is no volume16:23
ol_schoolaah, i thought the vpn util was for the Cisco clients only, works with openVPN too? will use it with openWRT at home16:23
ol_schoolaVeggen: if it can land on your internal LAN over VPN, yep16:24
mwaldronhrm, i could easily be wrong :)16:24
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ol_schoolamwaldron: i'll get off my a$$ and look into it. just gotta install Perian on the appleTV and it'll play wmv's16:25
|tbb|k-fox vagalume works fine for me16:25
ol_schoolatoo many toys, so little time16:25
ol_schoolaK-Fox: vagalume worked for me too16:25
|tbb|wish i can record the streams ;)16:26
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mwaldronthat's my problem with vpn. 90% lazy 10% scared16:27
K-Foxvagalume have no volume control16:28
mwaldronbut i need to get it working16:28
Veggenol_schoola: of course it can. I was thinking of setting up openvpn towards my firewall (openBSD based)16:28
Veggen...and I run my home wireless on it's own zone on the firewall.16:29
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ol_schoolainteresting. i have a buffalo linkstation and a wrt54g. i've been thinking of setting up the linksys as a captive access point for guests that visit (happens more often than i thought)16:32
ol_schoolabut i really need to tie the IT back to the home net to simplify the SMTP conundrum16:33
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tony2001any idea why `dsmetool -k "/path/to/binary"` doesn't kill the process started with `dsmetool -f "/path/to/binary"` ?16:39
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|tbb|kfox use the hardware zoom +/- button s16:43
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K-Fox|tbb|: oh it''s good  , really i did not know this function .... thank you16:50
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michele_man monotone is painful...16:59
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melmothAnybody knows why i do not get the vprintf output of maemomapper to stdout ?17:02
melmothif i change them to g_printf, it works..but i guess there are vrptinf for a good reason17:02
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ywwgOn my desktop, I can call os.nice(someval) and then I can call os.nice(0 - someval) to return to regular 0 niceness.  But, on maemo, when I try to increment a negative niceness I get Operation Not Permitted.  Is this unavoidable?17:32
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wwpywwg: tried as user or root?17:38
ywwgwwp: user17:38
ywwguser works on the desktop, but not on the nokia17:38
wwpywwg: IIRC renicing could be a root-thing under certain conditions17:38
wwpI'm not sure if that applies to this case, though17:39
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||cwa user cna't make a processes less nice17:40
ywwgit works on the desktop tho :/.   I'm trying to find a way to make my program not clobber the system quite as much while it's working17:46
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trickieywwg: a user can only renice processes belonging to them, and only in the range 0-2017:49
trickieroot can renice what they want to whatever value17:50
ywwgtrickie: that's ok, I want to nice to 2, and then back to 0.  it won't let me go backwards (where it was)17:50
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trickieis it a process that your active user owns?17:53
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melmothany maemo mapper around ?17:55
melmothi meant maemomapper developper :17:56
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michele_is it possible, modifying rx-44 to change the chars I get with the Chr key?19:23
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mgedminI'm sure it is19:26
mgedminit's not necessarily easy19:26
michele_do you have pointers?19:26
mgedminthe configuration lives somewhere in /usr/share/X11/xkb/19:27
michele_yes, I already modified it19:27
mgedminthen you know more than I do :)19:27
michele_but I don't know how to change the beaviour of the Chr key19:27
mgedminwhat's the keysym assigned to Chr?19:27
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michele_no idea, I guess Mod5, but I'm not sure19:28
mgedminI don't have a N810 myself19:28
mgedminit could be ISO_Level3_Shift, or Multi_key19:29
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michele_yes Mod5 is mapped on Level319:29
mgedminhow does it work?  Do you press Chr e = to get a Euro sign, or do you hold Chr and press something to get something?19:29
michele_you hold Chr and press e to get è or é19:29
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mgedminif so then editing columns 3 and 4 in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 ought to change the characters you get19:30
mgedmin(after a reboot)19:30
michele_no, that's for Fn, not Chr19:30
michele_btw, I hate how everybody in the US is changing € to be | ;)19:31
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mgedmindo you have xev?19:32
mgedminthere's a package with it out there somewhere19:32
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mgedminoh, actually I built it and uploaded to my repo ( chinook user)19:33
* mgedmin should upload it to extras19:33
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michele_I'll have a look at wath hrw did for the polish layout first19:34
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melmothstill no maemomapper developper around ?20:01
* mgedmin likes the word 'developper'20:02
michele_melmoth: there's only one, and does not hang on here usually20:02
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melmothok, i ll send him a mail then. (funny though, the garage project show several people commiting in the tree)20:03
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michele_in that case I am just wrong20:06
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melmothno problemo, i use to be wrong quite often too :)20:07
|tbb|lardman: around?20:07
pope523I have OS2007 installed on my 770. I have found a couple of howtos on configuring the 770 to allow you to mount Windows shares, but none of them have worked for me. It says the modules is invalid when I try to load it. Can anyone help me out?20:07
lcuk_3anyone using an apple bluetooth keyboard with their 8x0?20:10
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* mgedmin raises his hand20:10
mgedminlcuk_3: I am20:10
lcuk_3how do i pair it with my device - ive got one here and its trying to pair and giving a passcode on 810 but obviously pairing fails20:10
lcuk_3is there a passcode default or something20:11
michele_I found this just minutes ago
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michele_might be useful20:12
mgedminlcuk_3: you're supposed to type the same passcode on the keyboard and press enter20:12
mgedminalso, there's a bug that sometimes pops up a 'pairing failed' error before you even get a chance to do that20:13
lcuk_3ive done it20:13
lcuk_3now ive gotta put it away for a week until my birthday20:14
lcuk_3apple dorks in the apple shop didnt think it would work with anything other than a mac20:14
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Solarionhow do I get the n810 to receive OBEX transfers ove bluetooth?20:16
s1dhave something that accepts opex push requests on that rfcomm port20:16
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Solarions1d: I want to receive files on the n81020:17
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lcuk_3my missus says she actually managed to baffle the apple people.  she is mega chuffed now20:19
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mgedminSolarion: I just commented on a maemo bug about that :)20:21
Solarionmgedmin: w00t!20:21
mgedminI managed to get my 770 with sobexsrv to accept OBEX PUSH transfers from a Palm Tungsten T20:21
mgedminit required a change in the server code to advertise an additional data format (0xFF)20:21
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Solarionmgedmin: ouch20:21
mgedminI don't know what exactly N8x0 uses20:21
Solarionthat doesn't sound simple20:21
mgedminbut it might require an equivalent patch20:21
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|tbb|NAT is not enabled in the kernel by default, anyone knows how to insmod that nat thing?20:23
mgedmininsmod /path/to/iptables-nat.ko, I assume20:23
mgedminafter you've built it somehow20:23
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|tbb|anyone built a nat module for bora, before?20:26
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pope523Can soemone help me mount Windows shares?20:44
mwaldronnot yet, but hopefully i'll get to that part of my 810 next week20:46
mgedminI don't know if you can mount them, but you can browse them with the File Manager20:46
pope523Can I access files on shares through the file manager?20:46
pope523On OS2007?20:46
mgedminon OS200820:46
mgedminI suggest an upgrade20:47
pope523And I can't install OS2008 on a 770, right?20:47
mgedminah, no20:47
mgedminI withdraw my suggestion20:47
mgedmin(you said OS2007, not OS2007HE!)20:47
b0unc3pope523: you can use wizard-mounter on OS200720:47
b0unc3oh OS2007HE... well.. I dont' know :)20:48
pope523I tried Wizard Mounter. I click the button to mount the share and it appears that the program closes without mounting it20:48
Zero_Doggmgedmin: how is it possible to browse network shares in the file manager? (is sftp possible by the way?)20:48
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pope523Maybe I should have spent the extra $100 for an n800 :)20:49
Navipope523, you should have.20:49
mgedminZero_Dogg: it just works for me20:49
NaviZero_Dogg, sftp should be possible20:49
mgedminopen file manager, wait a few seconds, notice the 'Shared Folders' entry at the bottom on the left20:49
Zero_Doggisn't there an unofficial os2008 for it?20:49
Zero_Doggmgedmin: ah, right20:49
mgedminopen it, see all the network servers20:49
Zero_DoggNavi: any clue how?20:49
Zero_Doggmgedmin: right, guess that's smb then20:50
Naviany clue how what?20:50
Zero_DoggNavi: how to access sftp20:50
mgedmina 770 is just on wrong side of 'too slow, too little RAM', a n800 is just on the right side of 'barely fast enough, sufficient RAM'20:50
NaviZero_Dogg, set up openssh-server20:50
mgedminhm, maemo uses gnome-vfs20:50
Naviand connect to it20:50
mgedmingnome-vfs supports sftp20:50
mgedminbut is that support compiled in the maemo version?20:51
* mgedmin has no idea20:51
Zero_DoggI know gnome-vfs does, but I haven't found any way to actually connect in the maemo file manager20:51
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mwaldroni know this question is out of left field, but has anyone dissected a n810 that would know who the physical manufacturer of the screen it?20:56
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hrw|gonemichele_:     key <AB06>  { type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [       nacute,      Nacute,      dollar,         dollar,         n,      N,      dollar,         dollar          ] };21:05
michele_I was sure you knew21:05
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hrw|gonemichele_: its: chr+n, chr+shift+n, fn+n, fn+shift+n, n, shift+n, fn+n, fn+shift+n21:06
hrw|gonemichele_: but chr+SOMETHING is ignored ;(21:06
hrw|gonemichele_: find how to change and give info ;D21:06
michele_I don't understand what's being ignored21:06
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mgedminaha, so the Chr key is actually <RCTL>21:16
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jotthrw|gone (and others) fyi, i solved the "Chr" issue by setting the "key <COMP>" to "ISO_Level5_Shift" and adding a modifier_map (e.g. modifier_map Mod3 { ISO_Level5_Shift } )... this way the EIGHT_LEVEL works22:33
jottthen you have ... type="EIGHT_LEVEL", [ None, Shift, LevelThree, Shift+LevelThree, LevelFive, Shift+LevelFive, LevelThree+LevelFive, Shift+LevelThree+LevelFive ] ...22:34
jottwher LevelThree = Fn and LevelFive = Chr22:34
mgedminah, so Chr is <COMP> after all22:35
mgedminwhich is mapped to Multi_key by default, right?22:35
mgedminthen it must be the input method that's doing stuff to it22:35
mgedminbecause Gtk's standard handling of Multi_key is to map three keystrokes into one (e.g. Multi_key c o => copyright)22:35
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jottyes, it was multi_key.. but i like it more to have a direct mapping :)22:37
jotti wished they had not used the F-keys for Menu/Zoom/etc... so one could actually use them in applications.. (like Chr+Q => F1)22:38
mgedminhave you noticed symbols/level5?22:39
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mgedmin(and types/level5, and compat/level5)22:39
jottyes.. thats why i concluded i need a Level5 key ;)22:40
mgedminI've been scratching my head trying to understand where these were used22:40
mgedminwhich is apparently nowhere by default :)22:40
jottthe "types/default" and "compat/default" includes them22:41
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jott(i suppose thats why they are loaded ;)22:41
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mgedminright, I was looking for a key actually mapped to those22:43
mgedminand why does it use 0xffwhatever instead of ISO_Level5_Shift?22:44
jottsorry i'm not that deep into xkb config files ;).. i also wondered why..22:44
GeneralAntillesWhoa whoa whoa. Did anybody notice this?
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jotthehe nice, so drop suport for everything < os2008 NOW! :)22:48
jottno excuses are tolerated anymore :>22:49
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maddlerls -ltr23:15
maddlerwops! :D23:15
t_s_ough, iphone...23:16
GeneralAntillesls: Command not found. Go away!23:16
keesjls -lart > GeneralAntilles23:17
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GeneralAntillesJust installed OS2008HE.23:19
GeneralAntillesCreeps me out.23:20
rm_youwait, WHAT?!23:20
rm_youi hope you're kidding... or that you're not. I'm not sure which would be better.23:21
pupnikwow oprofile is totally awesome23:21
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pupnikesd takes up a fair amount ot time23:30
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GeneralAntillesWell, I'm not unimpressed by OS2008HE.23:36
GeneralAntillesIt's reasonably responsive.23:36
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pupnikGeneralAntilles: hows the browser?23:38
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pupnik ahaa loook how much sound blaster takes up23:44
pupnik144808   31.9373  dosbox                   CPU_Core_Simple_Run()23:44
pupnik43815     9.6634  dosbox                   mem_writew(unsigned int, unsigned short)23:44
pupnik39148     8.6341  dosbox                   OPL2::YM3812UpdateOne(int, short*, int)23:44
GeneralAntillesFeels REALLY good, actually.23:44
GeneralAntillesStartup is a little slow.23:44
GeneralAntillesBut it's pretty responsive on normal sites.23:44
pupnikwhy were they so pessimistic on the wiki then?23:45
rm_youGeneralAntilles: wow. I'm actually amazed they were working on that.23:45
rm_youGeneralAntilles: you have a 770?!23:46
GeneralAntillesSo the ravenous hordes don't take a little optimism and turn it into unmet hype. <_<23:46
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GeneralAntilles2, rm_you.23:46
rm_youGeneralAntilles: !?! >_>23:46
rm_youGeneralAntilles: send me one :P23:46
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rm_youwhy would you have 2x 770?23:47
rm_youbut... WHY23:47
GeneralAntillesMostly for an extra battery for my N800.23:47
GeneralAntillesPartly because they make great couch/nightstand/kitchen/wherever browsers/terminals/ebook readers/media playback controllers.23:48
GeneralAntillesmmpc means I can control music playback from just about anywhere. :D23:48
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GeneralAntillespupnik, it chokes a bit on the heavier AJAX stuff.23:49
GeneralAntillesdigg is a little painful23:49
GeneralAntillesslashdot is good23:49
GeneralAntilleswikipedia work nicely.23:49
GeneralAntillesMostly during rendering23:49
Navi_Wikipedia isn't very javascript heavy23:49
pupnikdigg suxx23:49
GeneralAntillesit gets better after it's loaded.23:49
GeneralAntillesWell, duh, but it's good for testing bloated sites. :P23:49
Juhazhow's the memory usage? 2007he wasn't really usable for me since it keeps hogging everything down by itself and leaves almost nothing for the poor apps23:50
GeneralAntillesProbably a lot worse than OS2007HE.23:51
GeneralAntillesAvoiding too much multitasking wouldn't be a bad idea.23:52
rm_youuse swap >_>23:52
GeneralAntillesOnly gets you 128MB total.23:53
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jott...use more swap :)23:55
Juhazwell, you could use a partition or your own file instead of the one the control panel applet creates, but the universe only lasts so long.23:56
jottthe universe collapses if you manually create swap space on a n770? :O23:57
GeneralAntillesNah, I'm just way too lazy.23:57
Juhazwell, no, it's just that the 770 with that much swap is so slow that I'd still be waiting for it to do something when the universe collapses (or however it will eventually choose to go) naturally23:58
mgedmina linux machine with no swap is much slower when it runs out of ram than a linux machine with swap23:59
Navi_lockup if you're out of ram23:59

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