| jku | but you just need to start it up somehow when that happens... | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| indolent | jku: yes :) . I tried using iwconfig commands like mode and power, but they dont seem to work | 00:00 |
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| jku | wireless is tricky -- should try sacrificing a rubber chicken or something | 00:01 |
| indolent | is there a power management configuration file or something.. | 00:02 |
| indolent | from where I can delete wireless device :) | 00:02 |
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| dragorn | Wow, it's really annoying that the wayfinder stuff sends you to some random finnish payment gateway | 00:03 |
| jku | ah, think of the devil... | 00:03 |
| jku | indolent, I was just going to suggest you try kismet | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, here's an idea: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=141675&postcount=8 | 00:04 |
| indolent | jku: i tried kismet, but that also fails when i get disconnected from AP, | 00:05 |
| jku | indolent, are running these as root? | 00:05 |
| indolent | nanny is way too powerful .. | 00:05 |
| indolent | jku: yes | 00:06 |
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| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: hrm | 00:09 |
| rm_you | yeah i posted a response | 00:09 |
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| dragorn | Running kismet and being connected to an AP are orthogonal | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, might make a cool feature once you get a prefs dialog in. | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just run the script once a second when the applet is open? | 00:12 |
| cyberholic5356 | Ok everyone... as the force download does not work, i changed the atarashi maemo-ezine so that you can download it, if you press and hold the DOWNLOAD button. Then through the context-menu go and download it to your device. Just in case someone would like to know.... here is the link once again: http://www.cyberholic.de/atarashi | 00:12 |
| rm_you | yeah... i guess? i'm not sure what he's talking about | 00:13 |
| rm_you | no n810 >_> | 00:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I dunno why he can't use it. | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | But ag2 put out a little console script that polls the light meter on the N810. | 00:13 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: and that's NOT a good idea, i believe.... because that will keep the CPU from sleeping very much <_< | 00:13 |
| lcuk_3 | hmmmmm, now that was interesting | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Putting a readout in the applet could be interesting | 00:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, only have it update when it's open. | 00:14 |
| rm_you | when it's popped down, you mean? | 00:14 |
| rm_you | wouldnt that defeat the purpose? | 00:14 |
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| rm_you | of having it automatically adjust? | 00:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why would it defeat the purpose? | 00:14 |
| lcuk_3 | i just screwed up my program writing to the screen. through code error i got caught in a loop and ended up forcing reboot with power button. i saw flashes of the "CHarging..." thing you get with power off, but my program still had control and was running | 00:15 |
| lcuk_3 | i thought all apps were shutdown at poweroff? | 00:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm thinking of having it print out a lux reading | 00:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | not update the backlight based on that reading. | 00:15 |
| rm_you | wouldnt you want it to autoadjust by itself without having to click around with the applet? if you're going to click down the applet to have it autoadjust the light level, you might as well just click the right level yourself >_> | 00:15 |
| rm_you | well... i don't think that's what he's asking for? it sounded to me like he wanted it to autoadjust | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | dunno | 00:15 |
| rm_you | but i'm not sure, because he wasn't very clear | 00:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I still like my idea. :D | 00:16 |
| rm_you | option: [ ] Show Light Meter Readout | 00:16 |
| johnx | neither of you even *have* N810s anyways... | 00:16 |
| rm_you | johnx: lol | 00:16 |
| rm_you | johnx: seen the new version? :P | 00:16 |
| lcuk_3 | in the space it takes to give the option why not just give the readout? | 00:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shut up, johnx. :P | 00:16 |
| * johnx hasn't seen any version... | 00:16 | |
| rm_you | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=141681 | 00:17 |
| rm_you | lcuk_3: the options pane wouldnt be always up | 00:17 |
| rm_you | it'd be in the control panel or something | 00:17 |
| johnx | slick! | 00:17 |
| rm_you | i'm trying to keep it minimal looking... | 00:17 |
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| rm_you | the whole POINT is to conserve space and such | 00:17 |
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| johnx | can you add a game of tetris? | 00:18 |
| jku | rm_you, nice | 00:18 |
| rm_you | lol | 00:18 |
| jku | maybe a flight simulator? | 00:18 |
| jku | just a small one | 00:18 |
| johnx | oooh...something like google earth! | 00:18 |
| lcuk_3 | conserving space is only essential if you have a lot to fit on the screen | 00:18 |
| rm_you | you guys are evil | 00:18 |
| lcuk_3 | i would want a big button at either end "dimmest" "brightest" | 00:19 |
| lcuk_3 | no need to aim or anything | 00:19 |
| lcuk_3 | (but thats just me) | 00:19 |
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| leif__ | lcuk_3, when it says "charging" it is in a different linux runlevel, not all processes are stopped | 00:22 |
| Radly | Barack Obama voted FOR the Patriot Act, more funding for America's aggression in Iraq, and every increased spending measure he could get his lying articulate hands on. Hmmm lets add some more contradictions and exposed lies...... In the NH debate, he called for going into Pakistan. In many speaches he has advocated going into Africa for peacekeeping. (Sounds like that would be worse than Vietnam!) | 00:22 |
| Radly | Oh yeah!!! THAT WILL REALLY HEAL AMERICA. Keep on believing it Obamatards. You all will be sorry, as Barack Hussein Obama is no better than Clinton or Edwards. | 00:22 |
| Tama^2 | O.o | 00:22 |
| Tama^2 | wrong channel? :P | 00:23 |
| lcuk_3 | maybe thats why people are having problems with rebooting - if a runaway process (like mine was) is running then they cant do it without popping battery - thats what i did. i thought it rebooted and loaded up in battery mode (which would ensure the progs are stable) | 00:23 |
| leif__ | nope, it doesn't reboot when you "switch off" with the power plugged in | 00:24 |
| dragorn | sorry, juggling half a dozen things. People with wifi problems: If your signal goes away and it drops dead randomly, try changing channels at least 6 channels away from what you're using. (ie, 6 to 1 or 11, 1 to 6 or 11, etc). It could be noise (ie cordless phone, microwave, etc) or it could be a competing network which knocks yours out when it gets saturated. Try somewhere far away in the spectrum and see if it's better. | 00:24 |
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| leif__ | if you ssh into the tablet and switch off into charging mode, it goes offline but doesn't break the connection... so, when you turn it back on and reconnect the wifi, your ssh connection is still alive | 00:25 |
| lcuk_3 | hmmm so even if i manually switch off its not even close to being off | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Here's my crappy, badly done mockup: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/adv-backlight-mockup.jpg | 00:27 |
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| jku | GeneralAntilles, what's it good for? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | What good for? | 00:30 |
| jku | the lux number | 00:30 |
| rm_you | the settings button i agree with :) | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tell you how bright your environment is. | 00:31 |
| jku | :) | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some people may like it. | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Light meters are expensive. | 00:31 |
| jku | blind people? | 00:31 |
| leif__ | lcuk_3, you just need to switch off with the power unplugged and then it will really shutdown | 00:31 |
| shackan | some people may use their eyes | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Make kind of a cool option. | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mildly interesting demo feature. | 00:32 |
| jku | Sure | 00:32 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: yeah, i can add an option to it. | 00:32 |
| rm_you | will need to add config file parsing <_< | 00:32 |
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| rm_you | but that was inevitable | 00:32 |
| leif__ | how about reading the thermometer too? | 00:32 |
| rm_you | lol | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also not a bad optoin. | 00:32 |
| * rm_you was trying to keep the application minimal | 00:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | s/optoin/option/ | 00:32 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Also not a bad option. | 00:32 |
| rm_you | i guess <_< | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, as long as it's an option. :P | 00:33 |
| jku | rm_you, good goal, don't give up | 00:33 |
| leif__ | minimal schminimal | 00:33 |
| rm_you | lol | 00:33 |
| rm_you | i'm a CLI guy <_< | 00:33 |
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| rm_you | each application should be minimal, and do one specific function, WELL.. | 00:34 |
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| lcdd | you want your terminal to handle input AND output? | 00:34 |
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| ||cw | do one things and do it well is great and all, but when a project needs to use several things that really slow things down, whihc is why we have libraries and API's | 00:36 |
| NeoStrider_ | anyone knows how to enable internet access on scratchbox? | 00:37 |
| * GeneralAntilles enjoys encouraging feature creep. | 00:37 | |
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| leif__ | I'm a fan of CLI minimalism, but if you're going to display the LUX reading then the temp is the next logical step... | 00:38 |
| jku | not to mention flight simulator | 00:38 |
| Blafasel | Something completely offtopic: Any canadian in here? | 00:38 |
| leif__ | jku, that obviously is the next next step | 00:38 |
| NeoStrider_ | Blafasel: pretty soon I will be in canada | 00:38 |
| NeoStrider_ | and u? | 00:39 |
| Blafasel | NeoStrider_: Any insight into the canadion legislation? I just read a document outlining the legal part of a kind of "lottery" (vmware giving away iPhones). | 00:40 |
| Blafasel | 1) Quebec is excluded explicitly (and I've seen this part more than once), 2) any winner from canada (and only from there) has to pass a "test question without help" to claim the price. | 00:41 |
| NeoStrider_ | Blafasel: they got cassinos, right? | 00:41 |
| Blafasel | Seems like they are nuts about those kind of things and I'd like to learn what's up with that. Yeah, completely OT, but.. Crazy. Fascinating. | 00:41 |
| rm_you | leif__: yes, that would be the next step from lux... but i was referring to just lux as feature creep ^_^ | 00:42 |
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| NeoStrider_ | Blafasel: nuts about iPhone, you mean? | 00:43 |
| jku | rm_you, seriously speaking IMO it is feature creep and shouldn't be there -- I like the automatic brightness change based on it, but lux should not be visible | 00:45 |
| rm_you | jku: so we're agreed :P | 00:45 |
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| rm_you | i'm open to be convinced otherwise, but IMO it would actually detract <_< | 00:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | How does Nokia do their brightness changes+ | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | ? | 00:47 |
| Blafasel | NeoStrider_: No, about winning stuff (online? no idea) | 00:47 |
| leif__ | perhaps a desktop applet would be a better place to display sensor readings | 00:47 |
| jku | leif__, that's a better idea for those interested in them... | 00:48 |
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| NeoStrider_ | Blafasel: its not about the prize, its thrills | 00:48 |
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| jku | GeneralAntilles, that should be Free, let me check | 00:51 |
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| jku | no, I was wrong | 00:52 |
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| lcuk_3 | modern technology: when you have to look at your hardware to tell you how bright it is... | 00:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Specific lux readings can be quite useful. :P | 01:00 |
| johnx | now we just need a couple more sensors to get to "tricorder" level... | 01:01 |
| johnx | and a spectrometer... | 01:01 |
| rschuster | whoever wants to know the size of the skin area of the hildonwindow should retrieve the "borders" property :) | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Radar! | 01:01 |
| Blafasel | Geiger.. | 01:02 |
| johnx | rschuster, out of curiosity what is it? like 720x440 or so? | 01:02 |
| johnx | I actually just saw something on how to make your own IR based "personal radar" | 01:02 |
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| rschuster | lcuk_3: this time future has won ;) | 01:07 |
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| rm_you | lol | 01:13 |
| rm_you | Tricorder :P | 01:13 |
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| leif__ | https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/connectivity/bluez-utils-debian/trunk/changelog lots of new features in the 3 Feb update | 01:19 |
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| rm_you | someone just needs to make an app that takes readings from temp and light and then uses them to display a bunch of graphical gauges and blinking lights and spinning things :P | 01:20 |
| rm_you | and makes beeping noises randomly | 01:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | There's RX-48 again. | 01:21 |
| leif__ | yeah, thats what led me there :) | 01:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | automatic audio service start? Huh | 01:21 |
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| leif__ | does handsfree profile support mean making calls with rtcomm? | 01:21 |
| Mousey | ...heh, all we're missing is an accelleromoter and a vibrator | 01:21 |
| johnx | oooh, AVRCP by default | 01:22 |
| jku | leif__, can't think of anything else | 01:22 |
| johnx | awesome | 01:23 |
| rm_you | lol | 01:23 |
| rm_you | thats what lets the bluetooth headphones control volume/playback via their hardware buttons, right? | 01:24 |
| Mousey | HSP yea | 01:24 |
| johnx | yeah, and the SBC optimizations mean A2DP will be more efficient | 01:24 |
| leif__ | so if anyone is looking for a list of things to put in a home applet applet, we'd like lux, temp, wifi signal strength, cpu freq scaling, battery percentage, and what else? | 01:24 |
| Mousey | network traffic graph | 01:24 |
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| leif__ | ping times maybe? | 01:24 |
| johnx | we could just use conky at this rate... | 01:25 |
| Mousey | a checklist to turn on/off all of the crazy options people stuff in thre | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | IP address | 01:25 |
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| Mousey | oh, the ability to stretch the stupid bar, so ALL the applets show up | 01:26 |
| Mousey | that'd be hot | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | ? | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is a home applet | 01:26 |
| Mousey | oh | 01:26 |
| Mousey | nm | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | not a statusbar applet | 01:26 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 01:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But, statusbar size is a theme thing, anyway. | 01:26 |
| leif__ | i don't think themes can make more applets show up there | 01:27 |
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| Mousey | i didn't think it was | 01:27 |
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| Mousey | compete applet position configurablity! | 01:27 |
| leif__ | the size of the thing is defined in the theme's matchbox.xml file, but somehow I doubt making it wider would cause more applets to be displayed | 01:27 |
| Mousey | that'd be nice | 01:28 |
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| Mousey | what about the ability to scroll the home applet bar down so a large amount of applets could be put on it. like a conveyor belt [with the taskswitcher part static at the bottom] | 01:28 |
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| johnx | also, look in ~/.osso/desktop.conf (I think) | 01:29 |
| johnx | there is some mumbling there about the statusbar but I haven't played with it | 01:29 |
| * Mousey is a relative newbie to this whole hildon thing, so please forgive me | 01:29 | |
| Mousey | or! | 01:30 |
| Mousey | drawers! | 01:30 |
| Mousey | like on gnome panels | 01:30 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 01:30 |
| * johnx just wants a proper nextstep/windowmaker/macosx dock... | 01:30 | |
| leif__ | ah yeah the size of the hildon-desktop panels are defined in the .osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf as well as the matchbox.xml | 01:30 |
| Mousey | ew | 01:31 |
| leif__ | in lcars we shaved five pixels from the statusbar (whole titlebar actually) in the matchbox xml | 01:31 |
| Mousey | not nextstep/windowmaker/macosx. this is a tablet, tablet and desktop UI use cases differ greatly | 01:31 |
| leif__ | 15 from the whole titlebar, 5 from the statusbar | 01:31 |
| * Mousey LOVES the lcars on the n810! t'was the belle of the ball at SCALE this year! | 01:31 | |
| leif__ | thanks :) | 01:32 |
| leif__ | what is SCALE? | 01:32 |
| Mousey | http://socallinuxexpo.org | 01:33 |
| johnx | Mousey, believe me, I know about different use cases, but I've already tried windowmaker on the N800...all it needs is single click instead of double click to be pretty reasonable | 01:33 |
| Mousey | suprised me nokia wasn't there.. especially since the raffle was for an n810 | 01:33 |
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| Mousey | johnx: i still maintain that the bar along the left should be scrollable like the album list or the song list in canola | 01:33 |
| Mousey | except the icon at the bottom for shoing all running tasks | 01:34 |
| Mousey | it would fit how people use the tablet a lot better than a static dock | 01:34 |
| Mousey | the ONLY other n810 at scale was mine | 01:34 |
| Mousey | and if i let anybody look at it, 8 people later i'd get it back | 01:34 |
| Mousey | there were n800s to be sure tho | 01:34 |
| lcuk_3 | which library/include do i need to use mutex_unlock(struct mutex *m) ?? | 01:35 |
| Mousey | even rasterman [of enlightenment.org fame] was at SCALE showing how canola used his EFL stuff | 01:35 |
| johnx | the nice thing about a dock is that there is *one* instance of an application, whether it's running or not | 01:35 |
| Tama^2 | lcuk_3: maybe pthreads ? | 01:36 |
| Mousey | johnx: i don't think that is an incompatible idea to what I'd love to see | 01:36 |
| Mousey | like how OSX has the dock and the tasklist on the same construction | 01:37 |
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| Mousey | its just when i have 8 apps open there's no way for me to see the rest of the icons unless i open the taskbar applet | 01:37 |
| Mousey | i'd much rather scroll it | 01:37 |
| Mousey | and be able to place launchers | 01:37 |
| Mousey | and live docklets would ALSO be awesome, but i want the moon, i think | 01:38 |
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| johnx | Mousey, notice how if you hide an app instead of minimize it, it doesn't add an extra icon? | 01:38 |
| lcuk_3 | thx Tama^2 ill have a look | 01:38 |
| Mousey | johnx: UI rule breaking mind bending nonsense.. | 01:38 |
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| Mousey | although, for those who like a clean interface, it suites | 01:39 |
| Mousey | they're still avail thru the taskapplet | 01:39 |
| Mousey | whatever the hell it's called, i don't even know if it has a name | 01:39 |
| johnx | I don't see a reason to have a minimize option at all, really... | 01:39 |
| Mousey | true, it's not necessarily windowing | 01:39 |
| Mousey | but i do use it a lot | 01:39 |
| johnx | the minimize on the tablet already acts more like hide anyways | 01:39 |
| Mousey | wait | 01:40 |
| Mousey | it does still show on the panel if u minimise | 01:40 |
| johnx | right but it doesn't *add* another icon | 01:40 |
| Mousey | well that's good right? | 01:40 |
| Mousey | the icon is there regardless | 01:40 |
| Mousey | if it's running, there's an icon | 01:41 |
| johnx | yeah, I just want the icon there whether it's running or not | 01:41 |
| Mousey | that's called a launcher | 01:41 |
| johnx | dock is a unified launcher and task manager | 01:41 |
| Mousey | if it was scrollable, then there's every reason to be able to add launchers | 01:41 |
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| johnx | that's why I want a dock | 01:41 |
| Mousey | we agree | 01:41 |
| johnx | alright | 01:41 |
| Mousey | i also want drawers | 01:41 |
| Mousey | so i can group launchers | 01:41 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 01:41 |
| johnx | drawers might be nice | 01:41 |
| Mousey | makes more sense than menus | 01:42 |
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| Mousey | tho menus have their place | 01:42 |
| Mousey | god that'd be hot | 01:42 |
| Mousey | ok, i'm getting too excited for nothing. sorry | 01:42 |
| johnx | too bad neither of us are up to coding it... | 01:42 |
| johnx | actually...a new task navigator plugin *could* do this I *think* | 01:43 |
| leif__ | is it possible to develop TN plugins in python? | 01:43 |
| johnx | I wish Nokia open sourced *their* task navigator plugins so I new where to start... | 01:43 |
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| johnx | leif__, I don't even know... | 01:43 |
| leif__ | and/or without scratchbox? | 01:44 |
| johnx | really not a fan of scratchbox? | 01:44 |
| leif__ | i'm on linuxppc mostly so i can't use scratchbox :( | 01:44 |
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| leif__ | i have an intel system but it doesn't get turned on much | 01:45 |
| johnx | well, you can always dev natively on qemu... | 01:45 |
| johnx | leif__, are you on debian/ubuntu? | 01:45 |
| leif__ | yes, debian | 01:45 |
| leif__ | and ubuntu also | 01:45 |
| johnx | apt-cache search hildon :) | 01:45 |
| leif__ | :) | 01:45 |
| leif__ | yes i've played with ubuntu mobile a bit | 01:46 |
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| leif__ | the task navigator doesn't run by default there | 01:46 |
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| johnx | on debian they're grabbing Nokia's flavor of Maemo | 01:46 |
| leif__ | so i've seen, nothing in the official repos yet tho afaik | 01:46 |
| johnx | ah | 01:47 |
| johnx | it's mostly there as source | 01:47 |
| johnx | I assume the autobuilders haven't done a build for PPC or ARM yet... | 01:47 |
| leif__ | ubuntu mobile on powerpc wasn't much fun, as they rely on flash | 01:49 |
| leif__ | maybe it would work with gnash tho, i haven't tried | 01:49 |
| * johnx hates flash | 01:49 | |
| * leif__ also hates flash | 01:49 | |
| * lcuk_3 thinks flash is better than silverlight | 01:49 | |
| leif__ | my N800 is the only thing I use regularly that has it installed :) | 01:49 |
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| johnx | leif__, I already found flashblock for microb... | 01:50 |
| leif__ | I just leave it disabled until i need it, plugins can be toggled in the menu at the bottom right | 01:51 |
| johnx | anyways, I actually compiled enough hildon stuff to run a full hildon "session" in debian on the N800 | 01:51 |
| leif__ | what task navigator plugins worked? | 01:51 |
| leif__ | apps menu? | 01:51 |
| leif__ | app switcher? | 01:51 |
| leif__ | nothing else, right? | 01:51 |
| johnx | apps menu and switcher | 01:51 |
| johnx | nope, no home applets, no status bar applets, nothing | 01:51 |
| johnx | it's the Nokia version of "open source" | 01:52 |
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| rm_you | >_> | 01:53 |
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| unique311_ | why won't my wimmote pair with my NIT | 01:53 |
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| rm_you | I wish they would just finish the job they started and open source the rest of the stuff in hildon... the only stuff left is almost trivial (BACKLIGHT APP!?!? WTF) | 01:54 |
| unique311_ | i tried pairing with hcitool cc MACID | 01:54 |
| unique311_ | still no go | 01:54 |
| johnx | rm_you, it's not trivial when *combined* | 01:54 |
| Mousey | johnx: yea, well i can't code at all, i'm more of a hardware guy =/ | 01:54 |
| rm_you | <_< | 01:54 |
| rm_you | sure it is | 01:54 |
| johnx | combined it makes up most of the functionality of the device | 01:54 |
| johnx | browser UI is closed source, parts of the calculator | 01:54 |
| rm_you | cp hildon/*.[ch] /var/www/hildon-source/ | 01:54 |
| rm_you | done | 01:54 |
| rm_you | >_> | 01:55 |
| leif__ | johnx, did you try building the rss-reader-applet on debian? | 01:55 |
| leif__ | it is the one open applet afaik | 01:55 |
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| |tbb| | rm_you: dont u want to add the advance display settings to the advance back light app? | 01:55 |
| johnx | I'll need to see what it depends on | 01:56 |
| Mousey | speaking of | 01:56 |
| Mousey | anyone know why i can't xfer files to/from my treo700p? | 01:56 |
| rm_you | |tbb|: i considered it, not sure how to get to that though | 01:56 |
| rm_you | i may try to figure it out... | 01:56 |
| |tbb| | anyone tested youtube viewer | 01:59 |
| leif__ | i wonder what all the libhildonfm related packages are doing in ubuntu (and going into debian too apparently) given that osso-filemanager-ui is closed | 02:01 |
| johnx | leif__, booting my n800 into debian now...I think something else depends on them | 02:01 |
| johnx | will check | 02:01 |
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| Mousey | leif__: good, the osso-filemanager sucks | 02:06 |
| Mousey | except for the zeroconf and smb stuff | 02:06 |
| Mousey | why can't it show the filesystem proper?!? | 02:07 |
| * Mousey cries | 02:07 | |
| johnx | but it sure would be nice to have it as a starting point | 02:07 |
| johnx | any replacement for it will have to be from the ground up... | 02:07 |
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| johnx | Mousey, tried gpe filemanager? | 02:09 |
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| lcuk_3 | mutex is a function in the kernel, how do i link to it with gcc? | 02:11 |
| lcuk_3 | is it just like i do -lX11 ? | 02:12 |
| lcuk_3 | but i have to know the library name | 02:12 |
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| Mousey | johnx: yea.. i use it, but it's not good for cross-partition/device/network xfers | 02:13 |
| Mousey | ...or i'm too ignorant about it | 02:13 |
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| rm_you | Mousey: scp or rsync for network transfers >_> | 02:18 |
| rm_you | or cross device/partition | 02:18 |
| rm_you | <<--- CLI guy, again | 02:18 |
| johnx | a lightweight filemanager supporting gvfs would be really awesome... | 02:19 |
| leif__ | Mousey, this might cause problems with the media crawler (iirc it did) but it is easy enough to browse the whole filesystem with the osso-filemanger... | 02:20 |
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| leif__ | ln -s / /home/user/MyDocs/filesystem | 02:20 |
| Mousey | leif__: well, the way it displays the device initially in the navigation tree on the left, it shows a pesudo-folder structure which is very confounding for me.. While i'm a newschool GUI user, i've been in linux for almost 14 years. I prefer truth in GUI.. ^_^ | 02:21 |
| Mousey | oh | 02:21 |
| Mousey | that's a good idea!! | 02:21 |
| Mousey | that's brilliant | 02:22 |
| leif__ | heh | 02:22 |
| * Mousey huggles leif__ | 02:22 | |
| Mousey | only irc huggles tho, i'm married | 02:22 |
| leif__ | don't blame me when the media crawler drains your battery in an infinite loop | 02:22 |
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| Mousey | hmm | 02:22 |
| leif__ | (not sure if it still does that, but it did in 2007 i think) | 02:22 |
| Mousey | interesting | 02:23 |
| Mousey | i'm not maemo-acclimated enough to file bug reports yet, but i'm getting more and more irritated that i don't have scratchbox installed yet | 02:23 |
| Mousey | ugh, and i talk too much.. ^_^ | 02:23 |
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| johnx | I can confirm that metalayer-crawler gets itself into loops in OS2008 as well | 02:25 |
| johnx | just give it an SD card with an ext2 partition holding a debian install and it goes *nuts* almost instantly... | 02:25 |
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| skibur | Anybody watch CNN? | 02:27 |
| rm_you | Mousey: it's nice to see someone besides myself spam #maemo a bit :P | 02:31 |
| rm_you | I tend to talk about 400% more than than anyone else here (when i'm online) | 02:31 |
| rm_you | it happens :P | 02:31 |
| rm_you | though the key there is probably "when I'm online"... because when others are online and i'm not, they're talking infinately more :P | 02:32 |
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| Mousey | rm_you: ty! ^_^ | 02:34 |
| Mousey | I just feel the least equipped to be so verbose, having come so late to the party | 02:35 |
| Mousey | and only being a hardware dude | 02:35 |
| Mousey | but still | 02:35 |
| Mousey | damn | 02:35 |
| Mousey | i LOVE this tablet | 02:35 |
| Mousey | the UMPC era is really here! | 02:35 |
| lcuk_3 | linux is on my desktop this year :) | 02:35 |
| Mousey | haha | 02:35 |
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| Mousey | i've been doing the linux desktop professionally for years | 02:36 |
| Mousey | in fact | 02:36 |
| rm_you | ack bbl | 02:36 |
| johnx | yeah, it will be interesting to see what intel turns up in terms of low power x86 chips in the coming year or two | 02:36 |
| Mousey | this year marks the 10th year i HAVEN'T used windows | 02:36 |
| johnx | wow...probably me too | 02:36 |
| Mousey | i've missed 2000, xp, and now vista | 02:36 |
| lcuk_3 | i feel now like i never got closer than "that looks like a nice game" and booted back to windows | 02:36 |
| johnx | I have to think about that | 02:36 |
| johnx | well I've still dual booted for games from time to time | 02:37 |
| Mousey | i've even recently become an apple hater | 02:37 |
| Mousey | even though it's hard to argue with success | 02:37 |
| lcuk_3 | but i havent felt like this about anything since my amiga died | 02:37 |
| johnx | I *had* to play HL2... | 02:37 |
| johnx | and portal | 02:37 |
| lcuk_3 | portal is my current squeeze | 02:37 |
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| lcuk_3 | thou ive been ignoring GLaDOS for a bit too long | 02:37 |
| Mousey | johnx: dude, i bought the Orange Box becuase out-of-the-box WINE runs TF2, Portal, and all the HL2s just fine | 02:37 |
| johnx | but windows lost the main spot on my desktop in mid 1998 I guess | 02:37 |
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| leif__ | i've never used windows much, haven't had an install in many years | 02:37 |
| Mousey | in fact: | 02:38 |
| rm_you | there was a larger than real size Companion Cube at Ikkicon :P | 02:38 |
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| leif__ | quit using OS X about 1.25 years ago now | 02:38 |
| rm_you | I got to hug it :P | 02:38 |
| lcuk_3 | have you seen the small actual weighted models | 02:38 |
| Mousey | leif__: yea, i hate OSX's interface | 02:38 |
| lcuk_3 | like large dice | 02:38 |
| johnx | Mousey, my rig is borderline able to cope with portal so I just dual booted | 02:38 |
| leif__ | I'm also becoming more of an apple hater as time goes on | 02:38 |
| Mousey | http://www.fsckin.com/2007/10/15/how-to-run-team-fortress-2-half-life-2-hl2-ep-12-in-ubuntu-using-wine/ | 02:38 |
| rm_you | I made one of the papercraft ones | 02:38 |
| rm_you | and weighted it with pennies :P | 02:38 |
| Mousey | johnx: probably runs better under linux then | 02:38 |
| johnx | uhm no | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apple's mobile forays are disappointing me. | 02:38 |
| johnx | it runs worse...I tested it... | 02:38 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: you use a Mac >_> | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really don't like the Apple Computer, Inc. -> Apple, Inc. deal. | 02:39 |
| lcuk_3 | i dont like companion cube with the heart, the original evil cube looks better | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love OS X. | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't care for the iPods/iPhone. | 02:39 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: i can tell because of all the ridiculously annoying extra folders and files that get included in the zips you send me :P | 02:39 |
| johnx | lcuk_3, did you not finish portal? | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 02:39 |
| lcuk_3 | johnx, yes, i died in the fire, why? | 02:39 |
| rm_you | __MACOSX | 02:39 |
| rm_you | .DSStore | 02:39 |
| rm_you | >_> | 02:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles should sanitize them first. | 02:40 | |
| rm_you | lcuk_3: >_> | 02:40 |
| johnx | lcuk_3, then I won't spoil anything for you... | 02:40 |
| lcuk_3 | John you plonker, "This was a triumph!" | 02:40 |
| rm_you | lol | 02:40 |
| lcuk_3 | "I'm making a note here..." | 02:40 |
| rm_you | :P | 02:40 |
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| lcuk_3 | of bloody course i finished it, its a gr8 game | 02:40 |
| johnx | I just mean, the companion cube with a heart was in the game... | 02:40 |
| rm_you | :P | 02:40 |
| rm_you | ack! bbl | 02:40 |
| leif__ | GeneralAntilles, you should export COPY_EXTENDED_ATTRIBUTES_DISABLE=1 before using apple's GNU tar | 02:40 |
| johnx | the only one that *is* a companion cube has a heart... | 02:41 |
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| * lcuk_3 tries to get gcc to link with the kernel. i wanna function out of there | 02:41 | |
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| lcuk_3 | i know but i prefer throwing the other one around | 02:41 |
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| lcuk_3 | some like blondes....others brunettes | 02:42 |
| johnx | some like blow up dolls...some like the real thing | 02:42 |
| johnx | it's understandable :P | 02:42 |
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| lcuk_3 | the only thing i would wonder is what creature are they inflating? | 02:43 |
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| pupnik | leif__: walled gardens. pretty if you pay the gardner, but don't touch the flowers. | 02:46 |
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| leif__ | pupnik, yep | 02:49 |
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| johnx | walled gardens: sometimes waaay better than being alone in the desert | 02:51 |
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| Mousey | goodnight once more, internets! | 03:28 |
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| pupnik | I have to drop cpu cycles down to 600 in the Wing Commander Bar scene to get smooth SB2 sound/music | 03:46 |
| pupnik | at which point CPU load is showing 85% | 03:46 |
| Tama^2 | "the Wing Commander Bar scene" <--- I automatically thought of Space Balls bar scene | 03:48 |
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| pupnik | 9hehe | 03:57 |
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| pupnik | dosbox is making me cry | 03:57 |
| Navi | D: | 03:57 |
| rm_you | lcuk_3: when you figure it out, let me know | 03:58 |
| lcuk_3 | which? | 03:58 |
| lcuk_3 | the inflatables or the mutex | 03:58 |
| rm_you | err | 03:59 |
| rm_you | werent you talking about some function you wanted to be able to call? | 03:59 |
| rm_you | similar to one i might want to call to get/set the backlight level on the framebuffer? | 04:00 |
| rm_you | or something? | 04:00 |
| rm_you | i was barely paying attention the first time, sorry >_> lol | 04:00 |
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| lcuk_3 | good point, ive been sidetracked getting exclusive access to the frame buffer, i may need to become a kernel module if i want it | 04:02 |
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| johnx | lcuk_3, I don't think you can link to the kernel...do you just want to borrow the mutext function or does it need to do something in kernel space? | 04:05 |
| Navi | is the OS2008 kernel built with uinput? | 04:06 |
| johnx | I don't see UINPUT in the kernel .config file | 04:08 |
| johnx | do you know what the name of it is? CONFIG_UINPUT? | 04:08 |
| rm_you | i still think this monitor thing is the coolest ever :P | 04:09 |
| johnx | hmm? monitor thing? | 04:09 |
| rm_you | give me a minute | 04:10 |
| Navi | Not sure. The module itself is just uinput and is called uinput in menuconfig | 04:10 |
| johnx | that's weird...I don't see anything about it defined or undefined/commented out | 04:11 |
| johnx | ah, ok it's probably not enabled | 04:12 |
| johnx | it's CONFIG_INPUT_UINPUT but not defined at all in Nokia's defconfig | 04:12 |
| Navi | mmk | 04:12 |
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| lcuk_3 | johnx, i need it to lock out everything from the framebuffer | 04:14 |
| lcuk_3 | i think however i can achieve the same result another way | 04:14 |
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| rm_you | hrm | 04:29 |
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| rm_you | i accidentally hit the sleep key on this keyboard | 04:29 |
| rm_you | first time i've EVER done that | 04:29 |
| rm_you | it esploded | 04:29 |
| rm_you | i dont know WHY they feel the need to have a "break computer" button on like every keyboard... >_< | 04:30 |
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| johnx | yeah...I'm glad that went away quickly | 04:31 |
| johnx | no one *wants* that | 04:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Buy a real keyboard, rm_you. ;) | 04:32 |
| johnx | or at least pull the keycaps off | 04:33 |
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| johnx | Debian+xfce on tablet is actually surprisingly usable... | 04:47 |
| acydlord | I must say I'm loving pairing my n810 with my new centro :) | 04:48 |
| johnx | that's a pretty good combination I would imagine in terms of PIM, web and phone | 04:49 |
| acydlord | indeed | 04:49 |
| acydlord | i mostly like how the sprint vision service takes care of the pppauth for the bluetooth DUN | 04:49 |
| acydlord | i didnt even need their connectivity software when i paired it with my computer, which was nice | 04:50 |
| johnx | I think I swore never to buy a CDMA phone, otherwise that sounds tempting... | 04:51 |
| johnx | I'm holding out for the android phones anyways... | 04:51 |
| acydlord | i'm more interested in the openmoko and greenphones | 04:51 |
| johnx | is the green phone still around? | 04:51 |
| johnx | openmoko looks nice, but I kind of need my phone to "just work" | 04:52 |
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| acydlord | yeah, thats the only reason i havent bought one yet | 04:52 |
| acydlord | one of my friends works for verizon and has his working on their network | 04:52 |
| acydlord | only supports sms and calls right now | 04:52 |
| johnx | a green phone? | 04:53 |
| acydlord | nah, an openmoko | 04:53 |
| acydlord | i have a feeling the green phone may make a comeback since nokia is trying to aquire trolltech | 04:53 |
| johnx | hmmm...I think that's a sure sign the green phone is dead actually | 04:54 |
| johnx | I thought openmoko hardware was GSM? | 04:54 |
| johnx | or is he running openmoko on another phone? | 04:55 |
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| acydlord | on another phone | 04:59 |
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| ligerzero | Hi is anyone here? | 05:00 |
| johnx | yup | 05:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | No. | 05:00 |
| ligerzero | Okay this is a weird question but hopefully someone can help me | 05:00 |
| acydlord | the answer is yes | 05:01 |
| ligerzero | I just bought a used N770 tablet, I went to download OS2006 to reflash, and when I put in my WLAN ID it refused it | 05:01 |
| johnx | that's interesting | 05:01 |
| ligerzero | I turn the tablet over and take out the battery, and no product tag... | 05:02 |
| johnx | nice... | 05:02 |
| johnx | you remembered to take the :'s out of the MAC address right? | 05:02 |
| ligerzero | yeah | 05:02 |
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| ligerzero | so it was like 112233445566 | 05:02 |
| johnx | yeah, that's right | 05:03 |
| johnx | it's pretty weird that the product label isn't there | 05:03 |
| johnx | does it look like it's been removed? | 05:03 |
| ligerzero | Except of course it was something like 00020E...... | 05:03 |
| ligerzero | no there's no residue.. that's the odd part | 05:03 |
| johnx | anyways, at worst, you can find a disassembly pic on google and "borrow" a MAC address | 05:04 |
| johnx | I don't know how they'd change the MAC address in hardware though | 05:04 |
| ligerzero | I hate to ask like this, because I have looked on google images and such, but does someone have an ID I can borrow on hand? | 05:04 |
| * johnx has an n800 | 05:04 | |
| ligerzero | it's having weird issues, like in the app manager, it won't download repositories to see for app installs/updates, it says failed when I first even open teh app manager | 05:05 |
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| johnx | you might be bitten by the WLAN memory corruption bug | 05:05 |
| ligerzero | Yeah it says operation failed. | 05:06 |
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| ligerzero | How would one go about fixing that issue? | 05:06 |
| johnx | well, first you need to reflash... | 05:06 |
| johnx | then you need to download the fix | 05:06 |
| pupnik | if you see nothing in the log you can restore your package index from the automatically created backup file | 05:06 |
| ligerzero | lol | 05:06 |
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| ligerzero | log shows section with no Package:header | 05:08 |
| ligerzero | mergelist problem | 05:08 |
| ligerzero | duplicate sources list | 05:08 |
| pupnik | if you have duplicate sources, remove them by editing /etc/apt/sources.list | 05:08 |
| ligerzero | Got it | 05:09 |
| ligerzero | That worked | 05:09 |
| ligerzero | And in your honest opinion... upgrading to 2007HE? | 05:10 |
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| pupnik | my favorite part about 2007HE was the screen-tap sound and the theme | 05:10 |
| rm_you | back | 05:10 |
| rm_you | hrm | 05:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | The horrifying neon and black mess, pupnik? <_< | 05:11 |
| ligerzero | lol | 05:11 |
| pupnik | i liked plankton | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, well, that. :D | 05:11 |
| Navi | So you were being sincere? | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's color choice has always been a little over-the-top. | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | The OS2006 beta was particularly gross. | 05:12 |
| rm_you | johnx, GeneralAntilles: http://cs.trinity.edu/~aharwell/100_1561.JPG http://cs.trinity.edu/~aharwell/100_1562.JPG | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 05:13 |
| Navi | Sweet. | 05:13 |
| rm_you | :P | 05:13 |
| johnx | haha...that's pretty cool | 05:13 |
| Navi | I'm too anal to have a dual monitor setup like that | 05:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles was gonna watch that, but it turned out to be American Idol. <_< | 05:13 | |
| rm_you | lol | 05:13 |
| johnx | need to get those panels out of their bevels and mount them closer together :D | 05:13 |
| johnx | do it, you know you want to :P | 05:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Still, I win: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/mydesktopleopard.jpg :P | 05:14 |
| Navi | Yay, now I get to see GA's five monitor setup | 05:14 |
| Navi | aw, just individual screens | 05:14 |
| Navi | You're totally lame | 05:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've got a cellphone shot which is incredibly horrifying. | 05:15 |
| rm_you | lol | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need to find a new smartmedia card for my old digital camera | 05:15 |
| johnx | jeez...that would make me go ADD-insane I think | 05:15 |
| ligerzero | nice | 05:15 |
| ligerzero | really nice | 05:15 |
| Navi | take a picture with your n800. You know you want to. | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Be cheaper just to get a new Canon A-series. | 05:15 |
| Navi | hay look, that's a recent screen | 05:16 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: wait... what's going on there? | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | SkyNet. | 05:16 |
| Navi | A screenshot of each of his monitors at once | 05:17 |
| rm_you | is that five monitors? >_> | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 05:17 |
| rm_you | or is that different desktops | 05:17 |
| Navi | :P | 05:17 |
| rm_you | lol... how do you plug in 5 monitors at once? >_> | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | 5-monitors. :D | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | The wonders of having a real computer. | 05:17 |
| rm_you | ... | 05:17 |
| rm_you | it's a MAC | 05:17 |
| rm_you | how the hell :P | 05:17 |
| Navi | haha | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, actually, one of those monitors is a Mac mini hooked up via Synergy (well, teleport, but yeah). | 05:18 |
| Navi | obviously, you can use the same VGA/DVI port for all five monitors | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 05:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2 video cards | 05:18 |
| rm_you | damnit. sec :P gotta take the video card out of my server really quick and shove it in my desktop and plug in my other two monitors | 05:18 |
| acydlord | lol | 05:18 |
| Navi | ha | 05:18 |
| acydlord | i've got 4 displays right now | 05:18 |
| rm_you | gonna have to reboot :P | 05:18 |
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| acydlord | if got the inverters for the laptop panels i have i'd have about 9 =x | 05:19 |
| * Navi takes six screenshots and pretends that they're six different monitors | 05:19 | |
| acydlord | lol | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 05:19 |
| rm_you | hrm... i wonder if i can set up House to play on all four monitors... stack them normal rotation but two on top of the other two | 05:19 |
| acydlord | lol, house | 05:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Video playback with divider bezels is fail. | 05:19 |
| rm_you | lol | 05:19 |
| Navi | yeah | 05:19 |
| rm_you | i do it :P | 05:19 |
| rm_you | it doesnt bother me | 05:19 |
| Navi | It's annoying to me | 05:19 |
| acydlord | you could watch 4 episodes of house to see if he almost kills te patient at the same time every episode | 05:19 |
| rm_you | the important part which most people don't get | 05:19 |
| Navi | I won't ever be able to do it | 05:19 |
| Navi | It pisses me off | 05:20 |
| rm_you | is that you need to overlap not just one bezel, but two bezels of width | 05:20 |
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| rm_you | so you are technically losing some of the picture | 05:20 |
| rm_you | but it makes it look SO much better... because otherwise it looks like theres a space | 05:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's better to have House playing on one screen and be doing 3 other things at the same time. :P | 05:20 |
| acydlord | thats why one must mod the cases off the displays | 05:20 |
| rm_you | yeah i may do that eventualluy | 05:20 |
| rm_you | *eventually | 05:20 |
| rm_you | or maybe that's why i have a HD projector | 05:21 |
| rm_you | :P | 05:21 |
| rm_you | it's just... not *quite* done yet <_< | 05:21 |
| Navi | I don't have room for two monitors, much less five | 05:21 |
| acydlord | i acidentially cut one of the reflective panels modding the cases for a friend's 3 headed display lol | 05:21 |
| acydlord | so now it's got a dim strip | 05:21 |
| rm_you | lol | 05:21 |
| johnx | heh...it's a miracle I even found room for one monitor | 05:21 |
| rm_you | the sucky part is that my server only boots 1/4th of the time | 05:22 |
| rm_you | and without a vid card in it, i won't be able to tell when that is | 05:22 |
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| acydlord | i have 3 computers and a crt on top of my dresser | 05:22 |
| acydlord | it looks like jenga | 05:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where does Camera save its images. . . . | 05:23 |
| johnx | rm_you, that's why you need a crappy old-school PCI video card | 05:23 |
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| acydlord | GeneralAntilles, i think mmc1 | 05:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | /home/user/MyDocs/.images/camera | 05:24 |
| Navi | :| | 05:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/whatwasnokiathinking.jpg | 05:26 |
| Navi | that would hurt my neck | 05:27 |
| johnx | gah! more like what was GeneralAntilles thinking! | 05:27 |
| johnx | a world of ow | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need better cable management. | 05:27 |
| johnx | is that a CRT right next to a giant speaker? | 05:27 |
| johnx | also, steve jobs would krie | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Old trinitron I got for free. | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's actually my Xbox display most of the time. | 05:28 |
| johnx | and it doesn't distory massively? that can't be a shielded speaker... | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Until my Xbox ended up at Microsoft. | 05:28 |
| johnx | s/distory/distort/g | 05:28 |
| infobot | johnx meant: and it doesn't distort massively? that can't be a shielded speaker... | 05:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.axiomaudio.com/m22ti_mainb.html | 05:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, it's shielded. | 05:29 |
| Navi | Whoa, a sweet sed bot | 05:29 |
| johnx | that layout would still make me crazy... | 05:30 |
| Navi | A B A S P | 05:30 |
| Navi | s/A/You/g | 05:30 |
| infobot | Navi meant: You B You S P | 05:30 |
| johnx | am not! | 05:30 |
| Navi | A A B B | 05:30 |
| Navi | s/B/LOL/ | 05:30 |
| infobot | Navi meant: A A LOL B | 05:31 |
| Navi | Awesome! | 05:31 |
| Proteous | A | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Navi knows how to use sed! :] | 05:31 |
| Proteous | s/A/groan | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fail. | 05:31 |
| Proteous | er | 05:31 |
| Navi | Proteous, you suck | 05:31 |
| Proteous | s/er/groan/ | 05:31 |
| infobot | Proteous meant: groan | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, why crazy? | 05:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the best for working on stuff | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | stick the reference pages/palettes/whatever on the other screens. | 05:32 |
| johnx | too much separation for one thing | 05:32 |
| Navi | especially with four irc channels | 05:32 |
| johnx | and too much distraction | 05:32 |
| Navi | :D | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, treat them like virtual desktops. | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | You don't span stuff over them. | 05:32 |
| Navi | I only use two | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Each screen has a task. | 05:32 |
| acydlord | i usually watch house and scrubs on my left display | 05:32 |
| Navi | and I span over them | 05:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I couldn't span. | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not even if they were closer together. | 05:33 |
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| acydlord | and then i'll have docs or templates on the 12" screen that is below my main display | 05:33 |
| johnx | I had 2+1 for a while but I have a little less space now | 05:33 |
| Navi | example: 3D crap | 05:33 |
| Navi | GIMP one one side, Blender on the other | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, everybody complains about distances when they look at it. | 05:33 |
| acydlord | spanning is distracting | 05:33 |
| Navi | go back and forth | 05:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it works really well for me. | 05:33 |
| Navi | I need a full screen for Blender and detailing textures | 05:33 |
| Navi | switching windows is worse than spanning | 05:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've never thought about multiple heads as anything other than independent. | 05:34 |
| acydlord | spanning is fine with modded displays or borderless displays | 05:34 |
| Navi | House junkies | 05:34 |
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| acydlord | btw for the house junkies, if you haven't read hugh lauries books you need to | 05:35 |
| jott | johnx: btw i have a greenphone ;) | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Kumar in House just cracks me up. | 05:35 |
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| johnx | jott, cool. Are they still going anywhere with that? | 05:36 |
| acydlord | they should do a greenphone olpc bundle | 05:36 |
| jott | well, qtopia (phone edition) is under development - but the main target is the fic/openmoko phone | 05:36 |
| acydlord | i wish they'd open up the olpc to the public again, i had money the week after the closed it | 05:37 |
| Navi | heh | 05:38 |
| jott | but it's actually quite usable as a phone.. | 05:38 |
| johnx | I assumed the green phone would actually reach that state. Trolltech knows what they're doing | 05:39 |
| johnx | I just wonder about openmoko a little bit... | 05:39 |
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| Navi | openmoko is expensively expensive... and ugly | 05:40 |
| jott | well the greenphone was actually never thought as a end-user phone, more as a qtopia development platform | 05:40 |
| acydlord | they were looking for fall of 08 for an officially usable phone | 05:40 |
| acydlord | but where the openmoko project stands i dont think so | 05:40 |
| johnx | Navi, can you name another unlocked, no-contract phone with those features for less? *honestly curious* | 05:40 |
| jott | so, the qtopia (phone edition) development still goes on and there are some more targets that are nearly usable (some hacked htc phones) | 05:41 |
| acydlord | openmoko is what, $250 for the "end user" edition? | 05:41 |
| Navi | acydlord, you missed it by over 100% | 05:41 |
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| acydlord | last i checked the hardware developer bundle was $500 | 05:42 |
| Navi | jott, and I got my e70, unlocked, for 20 | 05:42 |
| jott | i would also go for the gta02 .. though it's formfactor is really ...erm.. unpleasant ;) | 05:42 |
| alterego | My office this afternoon: http://alterego.freeshell.org/images/11022008026.jpg | 05:42 |
| acydlord | nice | 05:43 |
| johnx | heh | 05:43 |
| acydlord | i got one of those nice "unbreakable" large pint glasses | 05:44 |
| Navi | acydlord, oh, and it's expected 450 for basic, 600 for advanced | 05:44 |
| Navi | last I checked | 05:45 |
| acydlord | ahh yeah, the previous was 450 and 550 i think | 05:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just a reminder: http://ustream.tv/channel/thoughtfixs-live-show | 05:45 |
| acydlord | not a bad price if all of the features would be supported on gsm networks | 05:45 |
| Navi | johnx, if only the word unpleasant could cover up ugly | 05:46 |
| acydlord | ustream has blown up big lately | 05:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Love the waring label, alterego. | 05:46 |
| alterego | acydlord, "unbreakable"? It's glass :P | 05:47 |
| acydlord | mine isnt glass, it's one of those weird polymers | 05:47 |
| elb | ahh, British cigarette labels | 05:47 |
| elb | I love them | 05:47 |
| acydlord | like the nalgene bottles are made of | 05:47 |
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| elb | much better than our stupid "Surgeon General's Warning: It's possible that someplace, somewhere, some smoker got sick. Maybe. But we're not really SURE about that." | 05:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody getting sound on the ustream stream? | 05:48 |
| jott | silence here | 05:48 |
| johnx | I'm not | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not just me. | 05:48 |
| acydlord | i love the surgeon generals warning on beer | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Doesn't start for 10 minutes. | 05:49 |
| elb | I didn't know there was one | 05:49 |
| rm_you | johnx, GeneralAntilles: http://cs.trinity.edu/~aharwell/100_1566.jpg | 05:49 |
| rm_you | :P | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nice | 05:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can I have the chips? | 05:49 |
| rm_you | only semi-cheating :P | 05:49 |
| rm_you | lol | 05:49 |
| acydlord | you can omit the middle line on some of them and it reads "women should not drive a car or operate machinery | 05:49 |
| rm_you | pffft my chips :P | 05:49 |
| johnx | mmm...chips | 05:50 |
| johnx | just one? | 05:50 |
| acydlord | man, nerdcore rap is so awesome | 05:52 |
| elb | hah | 05:52 |
| elb | MC Plus+ is a good friend of mine | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | acydlord, isn't it though? :P | 05:53 |
| jott | watching thoughtfix live stream on a n810 is funny ;) | 05:53 |
| elb | though I must confess I'm not at all a fan of the genre ;-) | 05:53 |
| jott | gives another instance of the "infinity" ;) | 05:53 |
| jott | oh now it's gone :/ | 05:53 |
| acydlord | mc plus+ is from az origionaly isnt he? | 05:53 |
| elb | he is | 05:53 |
| acydlord | i used to watch ustream and jtv feeds on my n800 | 05:54 |
| rghosh | anyone have this problem when trying to build something in scratchbox? | 05:54 |
| rghosh | sbox-arm-linux-gcc: /scratchbox/compilers/host-gcc/host-gcc.specs: attempt to rename spec 'cpp' to already defined spec 'old_cpp' | 05:54 |
| acydlord | cant say that i have | 05:57 |
| Navi | I haven't. | 05:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://ustream.tv/channel/thoughtfixs-live-show show starting | 05:58 |
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| leif__ | my mo! | 06:02 |
| Navi | may mo! | 06:03 |
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| rm_you | Navi: Hey! Listen! | 06:27 |
| rm_you | Navi: Hey! Listen! | 06:27 |
| Navi | HEY! LISTEN! | 06:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Watch the show rm_you and be quiet. :P | 06:28 |
| johnx | ahaha | 06:28 |
| rm_you | :P | 06:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Too bad we didn't get anything on the PowerVR. :( | 07:04 |
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| Navi | :( | 07:04 |
| Navi | Cat montage | 07:05 |
| Navi | no music :| | 07:05 |
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| johnx | just hum to yourself... | 07:05 |
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| acydlord | talkin bout a montage... MONTAGE | 07:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Even Rocky had a montage! | 07:09 |
| Navi | whee | 07:11 |
| rm_you | ahhh damn | 07:14 |
| rm_you | i had no idea what you guys were talking about | 07:14 |
| rm_you | so i missed it >_> | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | You deef? :P | 07:14 |
| rm_you | lol | 07:14 |
| rm_you | i was doing other stuff <_< | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just review the video later. :P | 07:15 |
| Navi | :P | 07:15 |
| Navi | Quim did a bit of rambling | 07:15 |
| Navi | It was nice to watch :D | 07:15 |
| rm_you | heh | 07:15 |
| rm_you | where can i get the video? :P | 07:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | tabletblog.com | 07:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | later | 07:15 |
| Navi | Wait for 'em to edit and post | 07:15 |
| rm_you | kk | 07:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Navi, that's what you get when the interview isn't scripted. :P | 07:16 |
| Navi | Ha, rather than trying to beat GeneralAntilles to the punch, I'm predicting what he says so I can beat him to the second punch | 07:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Gotta give it to Quim for taking the time. | 07:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 07:16 |
| Navi | Of course. It's not every day you see corporates waking up early for an unscripted live interview | 07:17 |
| johnx | I couldn't quite understand him for all of that but I did I basically gather that we won't see much more source anytime soon? | 07:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I kinda doubt it. | 07:18 |
| Navi | I'm content | 07:18 |
| Navi | of course, I don't own a tablet. | 07:18 |
| johnx | heh | 07:18 |
| Navi | oh well :) | 07:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I noticed the bug for the gpsd version being behind was addressed. | 07:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | leif__, you gonna file on the rest? :P | 07:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | People who say the maemo guys don't communicate just aren't paying attention. | 07:20 |
| leif__ | GeneralAntilles, not until I find a way to automatically compare the entire source repo with the /var/lib/dpkg/status file on the device | 07:20 |
| Navi | They're retarded. | 07:20 |
| leif__ | possibly using http://search.cpan.org/~holoway/DPKG-Parse-0.01/lib/DPKG/Parse/Packages.pm | 07:20 |
| leif__ | er | 07:21 |
| leif__ | the status module, i mean | 07:21 |
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| leif__ | but DPKG::Parse i guess | 07:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Might file one specific to osso-feed-reader for now and make mention that it's not the only example? | 07:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | cc quim | 07:21 |
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| leif__ | maybe i will, not tonight though | 07:22 |
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| leif__ | i'm going offline for now. | 07:24 |
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| Navi | Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed! | 07:28 |
| Navi | I get that when trying to login scratchbox | 07:28 |
| Navi | >_> | 07:28 |
| johnx | pretty cool | 07:29 |
| Navi | oh, shoot | 07:29 |
| Navi | I forgot to add it to my .zshrc | 07:29 |
| Navi | Nevermind | 07:29 |
| johnx | :D | 07:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fail. | 07:32 |
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| Navi | How does OS2008 have the filesystem set up? | 08:13 |
| johnx | hmm? | 08:14 |
| Navi | More specifically, where are the lib/include directories? | 08:14 |
| johnx | /usr/lib and /usr/include | 08:14 |
| johnx | I think, at least | 08:14 |
| johnx | yes | 08:14 |
| Navi | mmk, thanks | 08:14 |
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| rm_you | if i install LCARS, can i easily switch back/forth between it and my other themes? | 08:17 |
| rm_you | it's just another theme in the list... right? | 08:17 |
| rm_you | >_> | 08:17 |
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| rm_you | if it works like that, then i can install it for testing | 08:20 |
| Tama^2 | yes it's just another theme | 08:21 |
| rm_you | k | 08:21 |
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| Tama^2 | just exxxtremely cool and nerdy | 08:21 |
| Tama^2 | xD | 08:21 |
| rm_you | someone on the forums said something about the sounds from LCARS overwriting the default ones... is that still the case? | 08:21 |
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| Tama^2 | no AFAIK | 08:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, just install the main part | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | don't install extras or sounds | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then you can cycle easily enough | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | some things wont be 100% | 08:23 |
| rm_you | k... | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or you could also install sounds and extras | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | a remove/reboot will clear them out | 08:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | People on the forums are retarded. | 08:24 |
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| rm_you | lol | 08:30 |
| rm_you | sleep time <_< bbl | 08:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I replaced the iconset on my LCARS N800 with the LCARS icons and they work great. | 08:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'night. | 08:31 |
| rm_you | lol ok so ... i just have to figure out how to support theming | 08:31 |
| rm_you | maybe sometime tomorrow | 08:31 |
| rm_you | though doubtful | 08:31 |
| rm_you | probably thursday | 08:31 |
| rm_you | did a nice code cleanup today tho ;) | 08:31 |
| * rm_you sleeps | 08:31 | |
| johnx | 'night rm_you | 08:32 |
| Navi | GeneralAntilles, nerd | 08:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | P'haps. | 08:34 |
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| kess | anyone who has built boost on scratchbox? | 09:06 |
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| alterego | Did I miss hte interview? | 09:20 |
| alterego | I guess so ^_^ | 09:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Videos should be going up at some point. | 09:22 |
| alterego | Yeah found it | 09:22 |
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| alterego | DG is very fidgety :D | 09:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 09:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | He had a cat trying to kill him for a large portion of the show. | 09:29 |
| Proteous | interview? | 09:30 |
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| |tbb| | morning al | 09:30 |
| Proteous | found the link | 09:31 |
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| Proteous | it's only 11:30pm | 09:32 |
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| solmumaha | morning | 09:33 |
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| Fang64 | lol it's 2:47am here | 09:49 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:00 |
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| b0unc3 | good morning | 11:05 |
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| |tbb| | morning Jaffa | 11:11 |
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| hrw | morning | 11:14 |
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| MangoFusion | mornin' all | 11:30 |
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| hrw | someone familiar with maemo input system? | 11:44 |
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| Mikho | what input system? | 12:02 |
| timely | hrw: input method editors:? | 12:03 |
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| AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning | 12:17 |
| hrw | re | 12:21 |
| hrw | Mikho: hildoninputmethod subsystem | 12:22 |
| hrw | for example I do not know does list of chars available on Chr+o (n810 hw keyboard) can be edited so with Polish keymap I will get ó as first | 12:23 |
| hrw | or disable that functionality at all | 12:23 |
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| hrw | in other way then defining Chr as AltGr instead of Compose | 12:26 |
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| florian | good morning | 12:38 |
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| felipec | 'morning florian | 12:43 |
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| michele_ | oooh this is nice http://ropermobile.com/products/switchback/ | 12:53 |
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| |tbb| | michele_: the price isnt nice (what a poem) | 13:02 |
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| melmoth | is it me or is there no wget in chinook ? | 13:13 |
| melmoth | Looks to be here:http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/w/wget/ , but apt-get nor apt-cache are aware of it . | 13:14 |
| lardman | worked for me | 13:14 |
| lardman | do you need to enable red-pill first? | 13:15 |
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| melmoth | hmmm, i did not try...I though apt-get did not care about pill mode | 13:15 |
| michele_ | I think it is only in the SDK repositories | 13:15 |
| jku | melmoth that's the sdk repo | 13:15 |
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| melmoth | hmmm | 13:16 |
| melmoth | well, will just install it manually then | 13:16 |
| jku | you can enable the repo on the device, but be aware that the apps are not tested to work there | 13:17 |
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| jku | stuff like wget will work without breaking anything, no doubt | 13:17 |
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| Ladi^ | hi all! | 13:19 |
| Ladi^ | after some tuning :) | 13:19 |
| Ladi^ | could anyone help me with gstreamer-hantro basics? | 13:19 |
| melmoth | jku and all wget lovers..please vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2935 :) | 13:20 |
| jku | melmoth, no need to just vote. Make sure the package is ready and push it to Extras yourself | 13:21 |
| melmoth | sure, i could do that. | 13:22 |
| melmoth | actually, it feels a bit weird..if any people with access to the repo can push anything. problem will comes. | 13:23 |
| melmoth | i ll test wget and push it if it works ok. | 13:23 |
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| jku | melmoth, in case you haven't done that before: http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/extras_repository.html | 13:24 |
| melmoth | i pushed some stuff already, but only for the application i had a garage project open (and its dependency) | 13:26 |
| melmoth | i alwyas feel trying to push somethig else would not be appropriate | 13:26 |
| jku | I know, but I guess creating a new project is pretty cheap | 13:26 |
| melmoth | i ll see what happen in the bz, if nothing happen for a couple of day, i ll just push it in extar and mention it in the bz. | 13:27 |
| lardman | jku: bit of a waste to have a project just to repackage upstream source | 13:27 |
| lardman | melmoth: just enable redpill and install it like usual | 13:28 |
| jku | lardman, sure, especially when it's in chiook already | 13:28 |
| jku | lardman, but we can't expect N to package everything | 13:28 |
| lardman | melmoth: otherwise use curl (or whatever apt-get uses) | 13:28 |
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| lardman | jku: that's where OpenEmbedded comes in ;) | 13:29 |
| melmoth | lardman: i think i ll have no problem installing it, i would just wish it would be there in extra | 13:29 |
| melmoth | so i wont have to re install it manually after a reflash | 13:29 |
| lardman | or mud-builder of course | 13:29 |
| jku | melmoth, exactly. enabling SDK repository shouldn't be a solution | 13:29 |
| jku | mud-builder may be a good idea... | 13:30 |
| lardman | jku: there's a problem with deciphering the nvd_data, namely that as we don't know what the internals do, we can't really guess at what structures/data it will save | 13:31 |
| jku | melmoth, you might want to consider mud-builder | 13:32 |
| melmoth | never heard of it | 13:32 |
| lardman | (or OpenEmbedded) | 13:32 |
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| jku | http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/docs/workflow.html | 13:32 |
| melmoth | hooo | 13:32 |
| melmoth | interesting | 13:32 |
| MangoFusion | hey, reminds me of gentoo | 13:34 |
| MangoFusion | or pkgsrc | 13:34 |
| MangoFusion | or ports | 13:34 |
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| jku | lardman, agreed about nvd_data, I'm just surprised I couldn't find anything (like timestamp or coordinates) there... | 13:34 |
| jku | lardman is there a path from OE to Extras-repo or something? | 13:35 |
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| lardman | jku: I've no idea how to add stuff to extras | 13:36 |
| lardman | jku: but I've built a variety of packages, I should just create a feed somewhere and people can use them | 13:37 |
| jku | so is there a repository for OE/maemo? | 13:38 |
| lardman | no | 13:38 |
| lardman | If someone has some space on a server then I'm happy to create one | 13:38 |
| jku | that's the problem -- we need one or a very limited number of basic repos, not just random packages however nice the packaging system | 13:39 |
| lardman | well if by random you mean whatevery people want from the OE metadata, then yeah, that could be a problem | 13:39 |
| lardman | but realistically a single OE repo will replace many of the small repos people have with their ports | 13:40 |
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| lardman | as there is not much need for porting then, it's already been done | 13:40 |
| X-Fade | Hi all, we are going to do some updates to the maemo.org server, so there will be some outage.. | 13:40 |
| lardman | some ;) | 13:41 |
| lardman | X-Fade: any idea how much? | 13:41 |
| jku | X-Fade, you've been doing that already, judging from the state of the wiki | 13:41 |
| X-Fade | Depends on speed of database and speed of typing ;) | 13:41 |
| lardman | ok :) | 13:41 |
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| jku | lardman, OE system is fine by me, I just want the repo to be there before I start encouraging people to do anything else than Extras... | 13:42 |
| lardman | i know | 13:42 |
| X-Fade | jku: Yeah, we started 10 minutes ago. But I thought it would be nice to tell people about that ;) | 13:42 |
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| jku | X-Fade, yes, thanks | 13:43 |
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| lardman | was there anything interesting in ThoughtFix's chat to Quim? | 13:45 |
| lardman | I just started listening to the recording, but its hard reading about finite difference methods and concentrating on the conversation too | 13:46 |
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| Blafasel | lardman: What do you mean with "some space on a server"? What would you need? | 13:50 |
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| lardman | Blafasel: somewhere to host .debs | 13:51 |
| lardman | Blafasel: it really depends on how much stuff people want built | 13:51 |
| Blafasel | So you're talking about what? Web space? A shell? | 13:52 |
| lardman | Blafasel: webspace is enough, a shell and build machine would reduce the time taken to upload data, but as the maemo version doesn't change too often that may not be a big issue | 13:53 |
| lardman | so sftp/ftp access | 13:53 |
| inz | lardman, how much space would you need? | 13:54 |
| lardman | tis a good question | 13:54 |
| Blafasel | k.. I can offer webspace/ftp and unlimited (well.. You know the disclaimers for that one) traffic for anything that benefits maemo stuff ;) | 13:55 |
| lardman | hrw: do you know how large an average OE distro build is? | 13:55 |
| Blafasel | Ah, right. inz was quite fast with the youtube stuff as well. | 13:55 |
| inz | Blafa, I don't have unlimited space though | 13:55 |
| lardman | Blafasel: that would be good; I can't do anything for a month or so though as I'm away on holiday | 13:56 |
| lardman | i.e. away from the interweb | 13:56 |
| Blafasel | Holiday? A month? Dear god, let's trade jobs ;) | 14:00 |
| Blafasel | inz: Same here, space is worse than traffic. But nevertheless it should be possible to offer something | 14:00 |
| hrw | lardman: with rm_work it can take <1GB after build | 14:01 |
| hrw | lardman: during build it depends | 14:02 |
| hrw | lardman: I had 16GB builds even | 14:02 |
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| wwp | hi there! | 14:03 |
| wwp | for the ones who need to edit mp3/ogg tags on they OS2008-equipped tablet, Audio Tag tool is now available (as announced to maemo.org/downloads/2008). feedback is welcome | 14:03 |
| inz | Blafasel, I think the traffic is unlimited (there's no rules, not even guidelines, given), but disk space has a very hard limit | 14:03 |
| wwp | I'm also announcing early packages of Gringotts, the strongbox to store secret keys and so on | 14:03 |
| hrw | lardman: I do not think that you will need more then 100M for feed at start | 14:04 |
| inz | I could do up to about 1 GB | 14:04 |
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| lardman | Blafasel: :) | 14:06 |
| lardman | hrw: thanks | 14:06 |
| lardman | ok, so it's doable then, that's great | 14:07 |
| hrw | lardman: OZ 3.5.4 feed took 1.1GB | 14:07 |
| lardman | how much of that was opie stuff though? | 14:07 |
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| hrw | lardman: 3.5.1 has 161M, 3.5.2 had 246M, 3.5.3 459M | 14:08 |
| lardman | yeah, my CF card feeds were ~250Mb iirc | 14:08 |
| hrw | lardman: 112M | 14:08 |
| hrw | 242M took upgrades | 14:08 |
| hrw | brb | 14:08 |
| lardman | thanks hrw | 14:08 |
| lardman | Blafasel, inz, I'll have a chat with you chaps when I get back then | 14:09 |
| lardman | unless someone else decides to set one up in my absence | 14:09 |
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| lardman | Blafasel: and only 3 weeks, going to take a week when I get back to sort out what I've missed | 14:10 |
| Blafasel | inz: Okay, my space is limited only by the harddisk in that machine (which isn't big at all, but > 1 GB is easily possible ;-) ) | 14:11 |
| lardman | As hrw said, something like 100Mb would be enough for starters | 14:12 |
| lardman | and I think 250Mb would be about the maximum needed (in the short term at least) | 14:12 |
| Blafasel | Great. | 14:12 |
| lardman | With that said, my little OE feed, which only contains Octave & Gnuplot is ~11Mb | 14:13 |
| lardman | I'll have to get rid of the dev and dbg packages | 14:13 |
| hrw | and doc | 14:13 |
| hrw | and locale | 14:13 |
| lardman | yep | 14:13 |
| lardman | no locales in there | 14:14 |
| lardman | but people may actually want the dev and dbg packages, oh well | 14:14 |
| lardman | have to keep dev, just in case people want to use these packages to hack in scratchbox | 14:14 |
| hrw | scarybox... | 14:15 |
| lardman | yeah, but people are used to it now | 14:15 |
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| wwp | bbl | 14:18 |
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| |tbb| | wwp: thanks will try it later, many ppl wanted that now they can get it ;) | 14:22 |
| wwp | :) | 14:23 |
| Tobotras | Anybody got a _working_ URL for GPE f/chinook? | 14:25 |
| |tbb| | wwp: is it written by yourself or is it ported ? | 14:25 |
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| felipec | lardman: have you tried sb2? | 14:30 |
| ferulo | ey ey felipec how is it going? | 14:30 |
| lardman | felipec: is that the default for chinook? | 14:34 |
| lardman | felipec: I don't have a problem with scratchbox, just with having to build lots of packages by hand to get anything done | 14:35 |
| jku | lardman, no, sb2 is still fairly broken | 14:37 |
| lardman | what has changed to make it better than sb1? | 14:37 |
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| jku | lardman, it's quite different -- resembles other cross dev systems more than sb1 in many ways | 14:42 |
| jku | at least using it does, I'm not familiar with how it really works | 14:43 |
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| jku | as an example; building stuff means running "sb2-init" and then "sb2 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" | 14:45 |
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| felipec | jku: sb2-init is the equivalent of creating a sb1 toolchain | 14:45 |
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| jku | yeah, figured as much | 14:46 |
| felipec | jku: once you have that it's just "sb2 foo" | 14:46 |
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| felipec | IMO it's a great improvement over sb1, but I haven't yet managed to work with any Maemo SDK | 14:47 |
| felipec | on sb2 | 14:47 |
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| johnx | sb2 had some serious issues with apt-get when I tried it a week or so ago | 14:50 |
| johnx | it looks *really* nice though | 14:51 |
| Navi | heh | 14:51 |
| johnx | It's hard to overemphasize how much I'm looking forward to it | 14:51 |
| johnx | an end to building things for debian in qemu... | 14:52 |
| pupnik_ | nice, nfs from vmware on the same box is basically as fast as local disk | 14:52 |
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| jumpula | johnx: which kind of issues? | 14:53 |
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| johnx | I don't remember specifically but basically apt-get couldn't update properly | 14:53 |
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| johnx | I did confirm it with someone in #scratchbox at the time, but I don't remember specifically what wasn't working now | 14:54 |
| jumpula | ok | 14:54 |
| jumpula | and it was the emulation mode? :) | 14:54 |
| Navi | does anyone know where to get sources for icu-config for building? | 14:54 |
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| johnx | jumpula, yes. maybe it's even fixed by now? | 14:55 |
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| hrw | Navi: its libicu | 14:55 |
| Navi | mmk | 14:56 |
| johnx | Navi, if it's libicu, then I think you get the source from ibm | 14:56 |
| jumpula | i think there's a new tag from last couple of days in the version control system. but i'm unsure wheter it'll fix your problem. | 14:56 |
| Navi | it's off of ic-project.org | 14:56 |
| Navi | s/ic/icu/ | 14:56 |
| infobot | Navi meant: it's off of icu-project.org | 14:56 |
| johnx | I'll check it in a bit, trying to get a recent webkit-gtk compiling in scratchbox... | 14:57 |
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| felipec | johnx: you could even try to fix it yourself :) | 14:57 |
| Navi | Ha | 14:57 |
| felipec | the code is really clean | 14:57 |
| Navi | I've been trying as well. | 14:57 |
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| johnx | interesting, did you run into a problem with "m_url not declared in this scope"? | 14:58 |
| johnx | or I assume you're hung up on some icu problem? | 14:58 |
| Navi | I stop it when it complains about icu-config | 14:59 |
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| johnx | I seem to remember that problem a couple days ago...but now I have a new version of webkit and a different problem | 14:59 |
| johnx | if I fix my problem I may even see the icu-config problem again... | 15:00 |
| Navi | I cloned the svn yesterday. | 15:00 |
| johnx | ah | 15:00 |
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| Navi | I wish I had a tablet to test on so I wouldn't have to compile everything _twice_ | 15:02 |
| Navi | >_> | 15:03 |
| johnx | compile things twice? | 15:03 |
| Navi | looking for the future | 15:03 |
| johnx | I'm happy to test binaries if you want | 15:04 |
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| johnx | I have a veritable assortment of ARM machines here :) | 15:04 |
| Navi | we'll see | 15:05 |
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| |tbb| | hey johnx, could u help me shortly | 15:17 |
| johnx | sure | 15:18 |
| inz | Navi, well, I compile some things three times just to supports os2006, 7 and 8 | 15:18 |
| |tbb| | trying to get internet over an usbnet connection on my tablet | 15:18 |
| |tbb| | ssh into tablet via cable works | 15:19 |
| hrw | Navi: use qemu arm emulation? | 15:19 |
| hrw | I test most of arm stuff in qemu | 15:19 |
| kikka | heya. | 15:20 |
| hrw | Navi: and as maemo does not use armv6 iinstructions it can even be old qemu | 15:21 |
| johnx | |tbb|, what OS is the desktop/laptop running that the tablet is plugged into? | 15:21 |
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| Tak | whee | 15:22 |
| alp | timeless: hey, there is a thread i cc'ed to maemo-devel about the FOUC problem, would be fascinated to hear a mozilla opinion | 15:23 |
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| wwp | |tbb|: I just did the port and packaging to maemo | 15:23 |
| wwp | must go away now, bbl | 15:23 |
| Navi | hrw, I have the latest stable qemu | 15:24 |
| Navi | hrw, do you compile on a Celeron as well? | 15:25 |
| hrw | no | 15:25 |
| Navi | I do :P | 15:25 |
| hrw | Navi: athlon64 x2 or pentium mobile | 15:26 |
| * pupnik armed with coffee, takes up the fight with dosbox | 15:26 | |
| hrw | Navi: and I do not build maemo stuff | 15:26 |
| Navi | Aw :P | 15:26 |
| johnx | I built on ARM natively until I realized that qemu-system-arm was faster than the real thing... | 15:27 |
| Navi | Lol... | 15:27 |
| Navi | God damn. | 15:27 |
| Navi | Failed | 15:27 |
| hrw | I do not understand people which do arm builds on arm or qemu/arm ;D | 15:27 |
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| hrw | but then I hear scarybox stories... | 15:28 |
| |tbb| | johnx: im running ubuntu feisty | 15:28 |
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| inz | johnx, how slow is your ARM build machine?-) | 15:29 |
| johnx | I have two, an armv6tje (aka n800) and an armv5te (aka zaurus c1000) | 15:30 |
| johnx | the biggest speed increase I get from qemu is probably RAM and disk I/O | 15:31 |
| hrw | johnx: on which host you run qemu? | 15:31 |
| johnx | athlon 64 3000+ | 15:32 |
| johnx | usually niced to +5 since it's my desktop... | 15:32 |
| hrw | I prefer c7x0 then qemu on my desktop | 15:32 |
| hrw | for testing guis | 15:32 |
| hrw | whole systems test on qemu as it is easier ;D | 15:33 |
| johnx | I'm happy to test stuff on my C1000...USB host is a wonderful thing :) | 15:33 |
| johnx | |tbb|, what problem are you having? | 15:36 |
| johnx | can you ping your desktop from the tablet? | 15:36 |
| |tbb| | yes | 15:36 |
| johnx | did you setup bridging or NAT on the desktop? | 15:36 |
| pupnik | has anyone here found -O2 to be faster than -O3 on anything yet? | 15:38 |
| pupnik | on the OMAP | 15:38 |
| hrw | pupnik: you mean those 2ms? | 15:38 |
| glass | 3 was faster on symbian.. on 2.9something gcc pre symbian9.x kernels | 15:38 |
| glass | hmm | 15:39 |
| pupnik | you're probably right hrw | 15:39 |
| pupnik | the only big changes i saw so far were selecting arm1136j-s | 15:39 |
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| hrw | glass: 2.95 kernel is obsolete | 15:40 |
| Tak | I would say -Os is generally the way to go | 15:40 |
| hrw | pupnik: arm1136js + -mvfp will be best | 15:40 |
| glass | hrw: yes, but still, pre symbian 9.x stuff is compiled on oooold gcc | 15:40 |
| Tak | if you're going to build with vfp, please also build a version without, at least for os2007 | 15:40 |
| pupnik | ok | 15:41 |
| hrw | Tak: s/os2007/770 you mean? | 15:41 |
| * hrw -> afk | 15:41 | |
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| |tbb| | johnx what to do to do it? | 15:42 |
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| johnx | use this as an *example* to put in your /etc/network/interfaces on your desktop: http://pastebin.com/m46faa8b4 | 15:42 |
| Dregz | 1qw eq2 | 15:42 |
| Dregz | oops srry | 15:42 |
| |tbb| | johnx i allready done that | 15:43 |
| |tbb| | ive changed ip from subnet 2 to 1 (192.168.1.0) | 15:44 |
| johnx | does that clash with the subnet of your normal LAN? | 15:45 |
| Tak | I mean for os2007, /because/ of the 770 | 15:45 |
| |tbb| | yeah | 15:45 |
| |tbb| | that was my first problem | 15:46 |
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| * |tbb| wonders if johnx was fallen into the black hole | 16:02 | |
| johnx | I'm here, but I don't have any great ideas | 16:02 |
| johnx | on the n800, check: route, dns, and try to traceroute | 16:02 |
| johnx | on the desktop: check kernel logs for messages from iptables | 16:02 |
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| michele_ | how does people manage to use fbreader with the backlight constantly switching off? | 16:03 |
| jott | tcpdump/wireshark may also help | 16:03 |
| |tbb| | how to watch kernel logs about iptables | 16:03 |
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| johnx | tail -f /var/log/syslog | 16:03 |
| Tak | doesn't fbreader keep the backlight on? | 16:04 |
| jott | if logging (and iptables rules) is enabled | 16:04 |
| michele_ | no Tak | 16:04 |
| michele_ | not even in fullscreen | 16:04 |
| michele_ | and I don't find options for that | 16:04 |
| |tbb| | nothing happend when im trying to apt-get update | 16:05 |
| johnx | |tbb|, that's not the best test | 16:05 |
| ustunozgur | hi, I have been having difficulties connecting to AP's other than my own lately. Most of them are free wi-fi spots, like at Burger King. I assume the reason is due to there being draft n routers around, but this is a serious problem (I have a friend who won't simply buy the tablet since the device can't connect at her house because possibly one of her neighbours has a draft-n router.) | 16:05 |
| johnx | try to ping google.com | 16:05 |
| Tak | I thought I recalled people saying it did... | 16:05 |
| ustunozgur | Does anyone know of a remedy for this? | 16:05 |
| michele_ | btw, I also think it could use a good refactoring/streamlining of the preferences dialog | 16:06 |
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| ustunozgur | or at least some way to find out the real cause? | 16:06 |
| Tak | I find it odd, because it's a pretty simple call to keep the backlight on | 16:06 |
| ustunozgur | I used to connect to the ap at work, but now I can't, it gives a "network connection error" :S | 16:06 |
| johnx | I read through about one screen of text in 2 minutes I guess... | 16:06 |
| johnx | but you can add longer backlight timeouts with gconf | 16:06 |
| johnx | 30 minutes or more is possible | 16:06 |
| michele_ | Tak: do have docs handy for that? | 16:06 |
| ustunozgur | aren't other people having similar problems? can you connect to public ap's easily? | 16:08 |
| Tak | michele_: g_timeout_add_seconds(59, osso_display_blanking_pause, myOssoContext); | 16:09 |
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| michele_ | thank you (I was browsing libosso APIs...) | 16:09 |
| Tak | http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-The-Main-Event-Loop.html#g-timeout-add-seconds | 16:10 |
| Tak | http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/libosso/group__Devstate.html#gbd82d7b0160e26cd15479f2685697322 | 16:10 |
| johnx | ustunozgur, my top 3 problems connecting to public ap's: 1) not enough signal, 2) MAC filter 3) the "public ap" is actually a misconfigured laptop in ad-hoc mode | 16:10 |
| johnx | BTW, where did you read that draft-N routers will cause that much of a problem? | 16:11 |
| glass | ustunozgur: would think that changing channel on your friends own ap would fix something like that | 16:13 |
| michele_ | Tak: "rgrep blanking" in the sources finds nothing, so I guess it's not called | 16:13 |
| * Tak tsks | 16:13 | |
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| ustunozgur | johnx: I read it in itt and maemo bugs. | 16:19 |
| ustunozgur | I will give you the link | 16:19 |
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| ustunozgur | johnx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1656 this, for example | 16:24 |
| ustunozgur | It says n770, but I guess it might be the reason for not connecting to other networks too | 16:24 |
| ustunozgur | the bad thing is, it is actually the fault of the router of your neighbor, so if your neighbor buys one of those defective(?) routers, there is a danger that your device can go blind! | 16:25 |
| ustunozgur | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1459 this for example | 16:26 |
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| ustunozgur | but noone knows for sure. some claim that this is fixed in os2008, I am running os2008, so maybe the problem is elsewhere | 16:28 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:34 |
| Tobotras | Evening :) | 16:34 |
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| SDuensin | :-) | 16:35 |
| johnx | almost morning again :D | 16:36 |
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| Navi | Pah | 16:40 |
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| Navi | Stoopid QT dependencies :/ | 16:40 |
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| felipec | q | 16:41 |
| * SDuensin is being tempted to jump into Maemo coding. So many ideas, so little time. | 16:41 | |
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| Navi | SDuensin, If you've ideas, there are places to throw them around as always | 16:43 |
| Navi | oh hei, webkit's finally building. Damned thing. | 16:43 |
| SDuensin | Well, one thing I personally want is an Apple II emulator. | 16:43 |
| BReady6433 | hello | 16:44 |
| Navi | :3 | 16:44 |
| Navi | BReady6433, hai | 16:44 |
| SDuensin | Whaa? Did I hear "WebKit"? :-) | 16:44 |
| Navi | No. | 16:44 |
| pupnik | SDuensin: unfortunately the linux appleII emus are not nearly as nice as the windows ones | 16:44 |
| Navi | s/webkit/nothing/ | 16:44 |
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| johnx | Navi, it builds?! | 16:44 |
| SDuensin | pupnik - Looked at LinApple? | 16:44 |
| Navi | s/webkit's/nothing's/ | 16:44 |
| johnx | can you pastebin your .bb for it? | 16:45 |
| Navi | no bot? | 16:45 |
| pupnik | SDuensin: not heard of that yet | 16:45 |
| SDuensin | pupnik - It's basically a port of AppleWin to Linux. | 16:45 |
| Navi | johnx, I never said that it builds, but I did say it was building :) | 16:45 |
| johnx | heh | 16:45 |
| johnx | well keep me updated | 16:45 |
| Navi | Last time I built it, it took an hour | 16:45 |
| pupnik | SDuensin: damn, now i'm going to try that right now | 16:45 |
| Navi | or two | 16:45 |
| Navi | johnx, will do | 16:45 |
| jott | webkit/gtk build fine here in sbox. | 16:45 |
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| Navi | had to build qt first, sadly | 16:46 |
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| SDuensin | pupnik - :-) | 16:46 |
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| SDuensin | Another thing I want to build is a cross-platform development kit that's been in my head for awhile. | 16:46 |
| Navi | getting rid of qmake should be a bit of a higher prioraty | 16:46 |
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| jott | Navi: what are you talking about? webkit/gtk uses autocrap for quite some time now.. | 16:47 |
| Navi | jott, Really? I used the build script, so luls. | 16:48 |
| Navi | Was wondering, shouldn't scratchbox build in cygwin? | 16:48 |
| jott | though you only need qmake not full qt for building with the qmake based buildsystem | 16:48 |
| Navi | jott, yeah, but I took the time to build qt anyways, heh ^_^ | 16:49 |
| johnx | Navi, are you building webkit in scratchbox or OE? | 16:49 |
| Navi | Scratchbox | 16:49 |
| jott | well qt is nice so its good to have ;) | 16:49 |
| Navi | :D | 16:50 |
| johnx | ah...nevermind then | 16:50 |
| Navi | OE? | 16:50 |
| johnx | yeah | 16:50 |
| johnx | trying to build it for my zaurus | 16:50 |
| jott | Navi: but still, read http://trac.webkit.org/projects/webkit/wiki/BuildingGtk and http://trac.webkit.org/projects/webkit/wiki/BuildingGtkUsingQMake | 16:50 |
| Navi | ah, I see :3 | 16:50 |
| Navi | I already know how to do it | 16:50 |
| Navi | I've built it for my desktop | 16:50 |
| Navi | I don't keep up as much as I'd like though; the webkit revision on there is a month old | 16:51 |
| jott | we would still need some nice hildonized ui :/ | 16:52 |
| johnx | so, which webkit browser are you trying to build for the tablet? | 16:52 |
| Navi | midori | 16:53 |
| johnx | ah, me too | 16:53 |
| jott | i build midori too :O | 16:53 |
| johnx | I just built it on ubuntu...it is quite fast | 16:53 |
| jott | ...and buggy ;> | 16:53 |
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| Navi | Midori is <3. I used to poke the devs a lot about it | 16:53 |
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| jott | still prepre-alpha ;) | 16:53 |
| Navi | Midori hasn't been that bad | 16:53 |
| jott | atleast when i tried it ~1-2 weeks ago | 16:54 |
| Navi | I have the revision before the .17 and it hasn't failed me. | 16:54 |
| johnx | jott, well the browser situation on the zaurus is pretty bad, so even midori would be nice | 16:54 |
| michele_ | wasn't alp toker working on EAL bindings for webkit? | 16:54 |
| johnx | michele_, that sounds right | 16:55 |
| Tak | alp: weren't you working on EAL bindings for webkit? ;-P | 16:55 |
| Navi | luls | 16:55 |
| michele_ | oh... alp's here :) | 16:55 |
| Navi | gah | 16:55 |
| SDuensin | Anybody work with SDL on Maemo? | 16:56 |
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| Navi | I don't have enough bandwidth to watch the build | 16:56 |
| Tak | SDuensin: a bit | 16:56 |
| * Navi hopes it doesn't error out when I'm not here | 16:56 | |
| Navi | SDuensin, pupnik does | 16:56 |
| * jott also hacked sdl stuff | 16:57 | |
| SDuensin | How does SDL handle the full-screen toggle? When I request a surface, do I get a full-screen surface or one that fits inside the menus? (Does that make sense?) | 16:57 |
| Navi | It fills the screen | 16:57 |
| Tak | if you pass SDL_FULLSCREEN, you get full screen | 16:58 |
| SDuensin | So when the menus are being displayed, what gets cut off? | 16:58 |
| jott | which menus? sdl does not provide menus per se.. | 16:58 |
| SDuensin | The system menus. | 16:58 |
| Navi | the top corner of the viewing area will be 0,0 of the sdl window | 16:58 |
| Tak | SDuensin: you mean in windowed mode? | 16:59 |
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| Navi | whatever doesn't fit withinfrom there to the bottom right will be offscreen | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | Yea. Guess I do. :-) | 16:59 |
| Tak | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#user-interface-parts has a useful diagram | 16:59 |
| Navi | top left corner, that is | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | Ah, ok - that's what I wanted to know. | 16:59 |
| SDuensin | I don't have to resize my surface. | 16:59 |
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| jott | SDuensin: you may consider using http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-1.2.6/docs/html/sdlwmtogglefullscreen.html | 17:02 |
| BReady6433 | het trying to run warzone2100 on my n800 and it tells me it cant run pallete.bin. is that a repos i have to dl? | 17:02 |
| SDuensin | jott - Thanks! | 17:02 |
| jott | (though i'm fine running all sdl apps in fullscreen mode anyway ;-) | 17:02 |
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| Navi | Yeah | 17:03 |
| Navi | all the sdl apps I've came over all fit in fullscreen | 17:03 |
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| SDuensin | Well, I intend for it to run fullscreen, however, if the user pops that little button to get the system menus to come up, I want it to work. | 17:05 |
| jott | the task manager will also show up in fullscreen mode | 17:06 |
| jott | from there you can either kill the app or go to your home screen or anywhere else ;) | 17:06 |
| SDuensin | Perfect. :-) | 17:06 |
| SDuensin | Now I'm even more wanting to play with it. | 17:07 |
| Navi | Goes ahead | 17:07 |
| Navi | A D | 17:07 |
| Navi | s/D/winnar/ | 17:07 |
| infobot | Navi meant: A winnar | 17:07 |
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| Tak | heh, there's no way to get the "home" button NOT to work | 17:07 |
| jott | Tak: xmodmap? ;) | 17:07 |
| Navi | Tak, off switch? | 17:07 |
| jott | (or the same xlib calls ;-) | 17:07 |
| SDuensin | Tak - That's nice to hear. <G> I can't break it that way! | 17:08 |
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| alp | Navi: the qmake build is likely to produce bad builds, i'd recommend using the autotools build | 17:13 |
| alp | webkit for maemo isn't quite ready for prime time yet, but things are moving fast now | 17:14 |
| * Navi shrugs | 17:14 | |
| Navi | too late :P | 17:14 |
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| BReady6433 | ok little confused. how do you find out which repository pallete.bin would be in? | 17:19 |
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| Tak | you probably could break it, but it would require determination | 17:21 |
| SDuensin | :-) | 17:22 |
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| ligerzero03 | Hi | 17:28 |
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| Tak | hello ligerzero03 | 17:30 |
| ligerzero03 | I installed a program in os2006 but it doesn't show in the menu | 17:30 |
| ligerzero03 | how to find it? | 17:30 |
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| Tak | what program? | 17:31 |
| hrw | what program? | 17:31 |
| ligerzero03 | fce | 17:31 |
| ligerzero03 | nintendo emulator | 17:31 |
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| Navi | fceu is a command line program. | 17:32 |
| Tak | ligerzero03: install xmaeme as well | 17:32 |
| ligerzero03 | does that bring it back to gui? | 17:32 |
| ligerzero03 | Well see i'm having problems with some of the repositories. | 17:32 |
| Tak | xmaeme is a GUI for fceu and other emulators | 17:33 |
| Navi | I mean, it needs to be run from xterm | 17:33 |
| Navi | xmaeme is a frontend for it | 17:33 |
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| * Tak grumbles about lazy fceu maintainer | 17:34 | |
| Navi | :3 | 17:34 |
| Navi | I'm unsatisfied with everything. I _must_ be on the bleeding edge :D | 17:35 |
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| mwaldron | lol | 17:35 |
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| ligerzero03 | I have a problem with teh repositories where eventually it will say that it can't refresh teh list | 17:38 |
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| johnx | ligerzero03, look in the log in application manager to see which repo is failing to download a Packages file | 17:39 |
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| Tak | what does it show in the log? Menu->Tools->Log | 17:40 |
| BReady6433 | reinstalled warzone and got it to work | 17:40 |
| ligerzero03 | I'm looking | 17:40 |
| BReady6433 | incase anyone gets the pallete error | 17:40 |
| ligerzero03 | syas | 17:41 |
| ligerzero03 | W: Couldn't stat source package list http://maemo.org.br mistral/main Packages | 17:42 |
| ligerzero03 | *says | 17:42 |
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| Tak | probably you should remove that one from your repository list then | 17:42 |
| ligerzero03 | a lot of the general repositories have that problem though | 17:43 |
| ligerzero03 | so I can't get apps | 17:43 |
| ligerzero03 | I tried to install xmaeme and it failed | 17:43 |
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| ligerzero03 | but I don't have a product id so I can't reflash the os | 17:43 |
| |tbb| | anyone knows how smoth the playback of youtube videos on iphone is (native) | 17:43 |
| hrw | ligerzero03: os2006 is forgotten by many | 17:43 |
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| hrw | ligerzero03: MAC address of wifi card is product ID | 17:43 |
| johnx | |tbb|, well it has a native youtube app | 17:43 |
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| |tbb| | we too ;) | 17:44 |
| ligerzero03 | It's odd, I put in the mac address and it said it was invalid. | 17:44 |
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| mk8 | sorry for my stupid question ... I setup my development envidonment ... but when I try to execut armel binary I got this error message: "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-eabi-sb2: No such file or directory" | 17:44 |
| mk8 | can anyone help me? | 17:44 |
| |tbb| | or sort of | 17:45 |
| hrw | ligerzero03: 770 product id? | 17:45 |
| ligerzero03 | Yeah | 17:46 |
| hrw | then read /msg ;D | 17:46 |
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| Tak | ligerzero03: try downloading and installing http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/mistral/free/x/xmaeme/xmaeme_0.10-1_armel.deb directly | 17:49 |
| ligerzero03 | It finally installed | 17:49 |
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| ligerzero03 | Now where would I get 2007HE? | 17:49 |
| Tak | http://os2007on770.garage.maemo.org/ | 17:50 |
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| |tbb| | so how smooth the playback is on youtube videos through iphone (with the videos, before they get converted) | 17:50 |
| ligerzero03 | Who here runs 2007HE? | 17:51 |
| rm_you_ | yes, who here runs 2007HE?! | 17:51 |
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| dpb_ | I run an older version of it, but I never use my 770.. :) | 17:52 |
| rm_you | dpb_: you have it near you now? | 17:52 |
| ligerzero03 | Nice | 17:52 |
| ligerzero03 | how does it run? | 17:52 |
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| dpb_ | rm_you: nope | 17:53 |
| rm_you | damn :/ | 17:53 |
| lardman | re | 17:53 |
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| dpb_ | as I said, I never use it. | 17:53 |
| dpb_ | it ran fine when I did use it | 17:53 |
| rm_you | anyone else have a 770? | 17:53 |
| ligerzero03 | I do | 17:53 |
| lardman | me too | 17:53 |
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| rm_you | i need the contents of /proc/component_version | 17:53 |
| zoran | rm_you, I have 770 and gregale, what is not you are looking for | 17:53 |
| rm_you | preferably on an n770 in both os2006 and os2007HE | 17:53 |
| lardman | don't have it with me I'm afraid | 17:54 |
| rm_you | not sure if there is a difference | 17:54 |
| rm_you | but it would be nice if there was, actually | 17:54 |
| lardman | is there a kernel version? | 17:54 |
| lardman | difference | 17:54 |
| rm_you | possibly | 17:54 |
| zoran | I think not | 17:54 |
| rm_you | but i'd rather rely on component_version | 17:54 |
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| lardman | nah, on my N810 it only has product, hw-build & nolo | 17:55 |
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| lardman | you could parse /proc/version | 17:55 |
| rm_you | lardman: those are what i need :P | 17:56 |
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| rm_you | zoran: do you have your n770 with you? | 17:56 |
| |tbb| | anyone using the wayfinder application in full version (means licenced) | 17:56 |
| zoran | not in this moment | 17:56 |
| rm_you | k :/ | 17:56 |
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| zoran | and it is just 770, as I know :) | 17:57 |
| Tak | I use 2007HE | 17:57 |
| rm_you | habit >_> | 17:57 |
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| rm_you | Tak: ah yes... thats right | 17:57 |
| rm_you | want to help me out and post your /proc/component_version ? | 17:57 |
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| Tak | product SU-18 hw-build 1602 nolo 0.9.14 | 17:59 |
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| lardman | rm_you: what are you trying to do? | 18:00 |
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| rm_you | lardman: my program decides what hardware it's on and does different things | 18:01 |
| lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/libvo/vo_nokia770.c?root=mplayer&view=markup static int check_nokia_device_type(char *device_id) might be worth a look | 18:01 |
| rm_you | i base it off the "product" in the /proc/component_version | 18:01 |
| rm_you | ah | 18:01 |
| rm_you | it might :P | 18:01 |
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| lardman | looks like ssvb uses /proc/cpuinfo string | 18:01 |
| rm_you | hrm | 18:01 |
| rm_you | well | 18:01 |
| rm_you | component_version is easy enough | 18:02 |
| rm_you | SU-18!??! | 18:02 |
| rm_you | seriously? | 18:02 |
| rm_you | random | 18:02 |
| Tak | I am total serial. | 18:02 |
| hrw | rm_you: use cpuinfo | 18:02 |
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| rm_you | hrw: i could... but i've yet to see how component_version doesn't work, or how cpuinfo would be better in any way | 18:03 |
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| hrw | rm_you: cpuinfo is present always as this is part of kernel mainline. component_version is nokia thing | 18:04 |
| michele_ | the interweb has broken | 18:04 |
| zoran | roumors are that the kernel is much the same | 18:04 |
| rm_you | hrw: but my applet ONLY works on nokia hardware :/ | 18:04 |
| hrw | zoran: but machines are not | 18:04 |
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| zoran | 770 for gregale and he | 18:04 |
| hrw | rm_you: why you need to check hardware version? | 18:04 |
| rm_you | for my backlight applet | 18:04 |
| rm_you | each hardware version has specific details about either what levels it can do or how the change is performed | 18:05 |
| hrw | rm_you: hw version as 'n810 0805' is different to 'n810 0806'? | 18:05 |
| rm_you | i use "product" | 18:05 |
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| hrw | so not 'hardware version' but machine name | 18:06 |
| rm_you | n800 is RX-34 | 18:06 |
| hrw | su-18, rx-34, rx-44, rx-48 | 18:06 |
| michele_ | I have 0801, btw | 18:06 |
| rm_you | yes | 18:06 |
| hrw | 770, n800, n810, unknown | 18:06 |
| rm_you | indeed. | 18:06 |
| rm_you | all i have to do is open that file and read the 16th byte :P | 18:07 |
| rm_you | it's SO unimaginably easy :P | 18:07 |
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| rm_you | though with the RX-48 in the mix i'll have to grab 16th AND 17th byte >_> | 18:08 |
| rm_you | annoying :P | 18:08 |
| rm_you | but not really <_< | 18:08 |
| Tak | 18 bytes?! | 18:08 |
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| * Tak head explodes | 18:08 | |
| hrw | rm_you: ever heard of strstr() and other string funtions? | 18:08 |
| rm_you | yes | 18:08 |
| rm_you | but i think this is... slick :P | 18:08 |
| rm_you | not 18 bytes... just the ONE byte, at position 16 :P | 18:09 |
| * rm_you looks at the Tak-colored splatter covering the walls of #maemo | 18:10 | |
| rm_you | fseek(fp,sizeof(char)*15,0); fread(&version,sizeof(char),1,fp); | 18:11 |
| rm_you | done :P | 18:11 |
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| rm_you | that just seems... neat :P to me | 18:11 |
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| ligerzero03 | So here's an odd question | 18:13 |
| pupnik | bbl | 18:13 |
| ligerzero03 | do they make firefox for debian arm based/ | 18:13 |
| ligerzero03 | and how do I open the zoomed keyboard | 18:14 |
| _collin_ | ligerzero03: you basically have ff on the tablet | 18:14 |
| _collin_ | it is the same gecko engine | 18:15 |
| _collin_ | people even ported some plugins like addblock | 18:15 |
| hrw | _collin_: not under os2006 | 18:15 |
| Tak | ...with 2007HE | 18:15 |
| _collin_ | ups out of sync with channel topic | 18:15 |
| _collin_ | sorry | 18:15 |
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| ligerzero03 | ahh | 18:16 |
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| rm_you | ack gotta go to a test | 18:19 |
| rm_you | BBL | 18:19 |
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| * tony2001 now I have ext2/ext3/reiser/smb support in the kernel =) | 18:41 | |
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| hrw | tony2001: 2MB is a lot of space for kernel | 18:41 |
| mk8 | again .... sorry for my stupid question ... I setup my development envidonment ... but when I try to execut armel binary I got this error message: "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-eabi-sb2: No such file or directory" | 18:42 |
| mk8 | can anyone help me? | 18:42 |
| tony2001 | hrw: not sure I get what you're talking about | 18:42 |
| hrw | tony2001: n810/n800 has 2MB flash partition for kernel | 18:43 |
| hrw | its lot | 18:43 |
| jku | mk8, I'm guessing you do not have scratchbox-devkit-cputransp installed. How did you install the SDK? | 18:44 |
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| tony2001 | hrw: so? | 18:45 |
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| hrw | tony2001: I am used to Zaurus where limit was 1-1.2MB so we had to strip lot of stuff into modules | 18:45 |
| BReady6433 | see you guys later | 18:47 |
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| tony2001 | hrw: well, then I definitely don | 18:47 |
| tony2001 | 't understand why these modules are not included by default | 18:48 |
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| hrw | tony2001: stupid nokia ideas | 18:48 |
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| mk8 | jku: I follow the wiki instruction ... I do it some time ago ... so I not able to find the instaction that I follow ... | 18:52 |
| mk8 | can you please give me an updated wiki link? | 18:52 |
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| jku | mk8, it's not that well hidden: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_4-0_tutorial.html#settingup | 18:54 |
| jku | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0/INSTALL.txt | 18:54 |
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| mk8 | thanks .... but IIRC I follow this instruction ..... infact I have other qemu-arm-eab .... but qemu-arm-eabi-sb2 is missing ... :( | 18:58 |
| tony2001 | in case somebody needs additional FS support in the kernel, it's here: deb http://maemo.daylessday.org/repo chinook user | 18:58 |
| jku | tony2001, what does it include? | 19:00 |
| tony2001 | ext2, ext3, reiserfs, smbfs, cifs | 19:02 |
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| fysa | tony2001, how about MD support? :) | 19:14 |
| Tak | MonoDevelop? | 19:14 |
| fysa | RAID. :) | 19:14 |
| MangoFusion | anyone know if there is a fusefs package? | 19:15 |
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| roundeye | hey guys | 19:26 |
| roundeye | quick questoin | 19:26 |
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| roundeye | dose the deafault browser that comes on the n800 support flash? | 19:26 |
| lardman | yes | 19:27 |
| MangoFusion | survey says... | 19:27 |
| MangoFusion | yes | 19:27 |
| MangoFusion | actually lardman sounds better | 19:27 |
| roundeye | so does the 2007 hacker editoin for the 770 have the same browser | 19:27 |
| * Tak download Family Feud NES ROM | 19:27 | |
| *** hrw is now known as hrw|gone | 19:28 | |
| hrw|gone | bye | 19:28 |
| Tak | flash is not supported by default on 2007HE browser | 19:28 |
| roundeye | ifis there a way to get flash working on the 770? | 19:28 |
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| lardman | Anyone here been to Adelaide recently? | 19:29 |
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| Tak | I'm not sure - I doubt the 770 has enough horsepower to run any but the simplest flash applications in any case | 19:31 |
| Tak | s/horse/gnu/ | 19:31 |
| infobot | Tak meant: I'm not sure - I doubt the 770 has enough gnupower to run any but the simplest flash applications in any case | 19:31 |
| roundeye | ok | 19:32 |
| Navi | :3 | 19:32 |
| MangoFusion | i have a solution | 19:32 |
| MangoFusion | install vnc | 19:32 |
| roundeye | i have seen it working on some videos on the internets | 19:32 |
| MangoFusion | ;) | 19:32 |
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| Navi | x forwarding > vnc | 19:32 |
| MangoFusion | i'm being generic here | 19:33 |
| Navi | in performance, rdesktop > vnc | 19:33 |
| lardman | roundeye: I think there might be a thread about hacking it into the browser on ITT | 19:33 |
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| roundeye | on tyhe itt wabe page huh | 19:41 |
| roundeye | ill check it out | 19:41 |
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| * Tak throw new ParseError(); | 19:44 | |
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| Tak | Navi: is that a Zoidberg smiley? | 19:44 |
| santagada | lmoura: hi | 19:44 |
| santagada | :) | 19:44 |
| Navi | it's a wittle kitty smiley | 19:45 |
| Navi | :3 | 19:45 |
| lmoura | santagada, hi | 19:45 |
| santagada | lmoura: so I don't know what osantana told you, but he said you ran the shootout tests with pypy | 19:45 |
| ligerzero03 | So the reload is nice | 19:46 |
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| santagada | lmoura: could you run them with the best performing pypy from http://tuatara.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de/benchmark.html | 19:46 |
| lmoura | santagada, no, with CPython for maemo | 19:46 |
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| santagada | lmoura: but do you have it setup to run with any python right? | 19:47 |
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| lmoura | santagada, AFAIR, yes | 19:47 |
| santagada | lmoura: can you please run it with pypy-c-51425-gc=generation--faassen from that page and mail me the results | 19:47 |
| lmoura | santagada, I'll leave it running tonight, it takes some time :) | 19:48 |
| lmoura | ok? | 19:48 |
| santagada | and with normal cpython so we can compare | 19:48 |
| santagada | later I will bug you again if the pypy guys like the idea of having it run as part of the benchmark run | 19:49 |
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| santagada | lmoura: big thanks man | 19:50 |
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| lmoura | santagada, quick question, where can I find that pypy version? (any branch?) | 19:52 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: lol | 19:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I win. :P | 19:53 |
| rm_you | by 4 minutes <_< | 19:53 |
| santagada | lmoura: uhmmm let me see if there is a precompiled version anywhere | 19:53 |
| rm_you | it took me a while to look up the presence.desktop file location | 19:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Might as well be 4 years! | 19:53 |
| rm_you | lol | 19:53 |
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| santagada | lmoura: do you know how to build pypy? | 20:00 |
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| lmoura | santagada, I did it with 1.0 some time ago | 20:01 |
| santagada | lmoura: ok then | 20:02 |
| santagada | lmoura: svn co http://codespeak.net/svn/pypy/dist pypy-dist | 20:03 |
| lmoura | revision 51425? | 20:03 |
| santagada | no no | 20:04 |
| santagada | trunk should be ok | 20:04 |
| santagada | http://codespeak.net/pypy/dist/pypy/doc/getting-started.html#translating-the-pypy-python-interpreter | 20:04 |
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| santagada | but pass -gc=generation --faassen | 20:05 |
| lmoura | ok | 20:06 |
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| santagada | lmoura: uhmm i think you need also --allworkingmodules | 20:12 |
| BReady6433 | hey guys how do i reg my nick to nameserv? | 20:13 |
| Navi | Heh, message nickserv | 20:13 |
| BReady6433 | lol you laughing because of my newb qyestions? | 20:14 |
| * bhearsum wonders how to completely remove a scratchbox installation -- even as root i get permission denied errors | 20:14 | |
| BReady6433 | thanks btw | 20:15 |
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| santagada | BReady6433: you want to register this beautiful nick? | 20:15 |
| santagada | :D | 20:15 |
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| roundeye | i was unable to find the howto on getting flash to work on the 770 | 20:20 |
| roundeye | maybe one of you guys could help me out by pointing me in the right directoin | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | I may be missing some context, but flash works out of the box on the 770 | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | the problem is that it's flash 7, so no youtube | 20:21 |
| Tak | it doesn't work out of the box on 2007HE | 20:22 |
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| BReady6433 | there was a thread on itt about putting flash 9 on the 770 | 20:23 |
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| roundeye | was it on itt web site? | 20:43 |
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| * Cptnodegard is happy with self ^^ | 20:49 | |
| Cptnodegard | http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/?action=view¤t=HPIM0620.flv | 20:49 |
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| BTobotras | evening | 20:54 |
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| smackpotato | roundeye: there is directions and links to librarys on internettablettalk.com | 21:22 |
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| Mousey | ITT, the google of the nseries | 21:25 |
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| michele_ | lol | 21:26 |
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| Tak | ITT, nearly unviewable on a member of the nseries ;-) | 21:28 |
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| Navi | lol | 21:29 |
| michele_ | that's truly embarassing | 21:30 |
| michele_ | especially as it wouldn't take that much work, but reggie doesn't seem interested | 21:30 |
| Navi | What's a good screen protector for the N800? | 21:31 |
| michele_ | there are countless debates on ITT about that | 21:31 |
| Navi | :P | 21:31 |
| Navi | I'm not a regular, so I wouldn't know. | 21:32 |
| Navi | Don't even have one of those newfangled doohickeys >_> | 21:32 |
| michele_ | doowhat? | 21:32 |
| Navi | s/doohickeys/thingamajigs/ | 21:32 |
| infobot | Navi meant: Don't even have one of those newfangled thingamajigs >_> | 21:32 |
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| Navi | I wonder if I can use my thumb on the stylus keyboard | 21:34 |
| michele_ | Navi: google for "fingertip stylus" :) | 21:34 |
| Navi | Those suck | 21:34 |
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| Navi | I hate the feel of it | 21:34 |
| michele_ | never tried one | 21:35 |
| Navi | They feel awkward | 21:35 |
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| Navi | I have pretty slender fingers and would rather see the screen while typing | 21:38 |
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| MangoFusion | best screen protector? abstinence | 21:42 |
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| Navi | Sounds like a poorly made condom. | 21:43 |
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| MangoFusion | i.e. don't use your screen, it will likely never get scratched. bit of a boring option though :) | 21:44 |
| AmR-eye | amon-ra everyone | 21:44 |
| Navi | MangoFusion, :P | 21:45 |
| AmR-eye | Would you like to read the reveal? | 21:45 |
| MangoFusion | is this some sort of code? | 21:45 |
| AmR-eye | It involves biblical figures | 21:45 |
| AmR-eye | yes or no? | 21:45 |
| AmR-eye | it must not be given against will | 21:45 |
| Tak | I need op in this channel. | 21:46 |
| AmR-eye | BEGINNITIO REVELATIONEM | 21:46 |
| michele_ | Tak: for the boring evenings? | 21:46 |
| AmR-eye | DECODE BIBLIA | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Revel - Abraham is associated with the Egyptian pharaoh Amenemhat I (translates: amen is the head) who worshiped the god Amun (Amen). Abraham god then be associated with in the Abrahamic religions god as amun, amon, omon, amen and the deity aamon. Abraham/Amenemhet I | 21:47 |
| jott | hey maybe he want to promote a bible app for the ITs :) | 21:47 |
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| AmR-eye | Revel - Jacob = King Yakubher | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Revel - Moses = Thutmose III | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Revel - David = Psusennes I | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Revel - Solomon = Siamun (translates: son of amun) | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Revel - James = Ptolemy Philadelphus | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Revel - Thomas Judas Didymus = Alexander Helios | 21:47 |
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| AmR-eye | Revel - Mary Magdalene = Cleopatra Selene II | 21:47 |
| michele_ | AmR-eye: stop it | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | FINALIZE REVELATIONEM | 21:47 |
| michele_ | AmR-eye: now. | 21:47 |
| Tak | michele_: for this | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | BIBLIA CHARACTER 1 | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | REVELATIONEM DE CHRISTUS | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Revel - JESUS = CAESARION, Ptolemy XV, King of kings, little ceasar, Isa, Jesus | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | The son of Julius Ceasar / Divine Julius and Clepatra VII / Goddes Isis | 21:47 |
| AmR-eye | Married to his half sister at "wedding in cana" | 21:47 |
| Navi | Tak, you need op in this channel | 21:47 |
| Tak | Consensus achieved. | 21:48 |
| michele_ | Tak: I didn't saw it coming | 21:48 |
| michele_ | I agree | 21:48 |
| Navi | Damned religious bots | 21:48 |
| glass | bizarre | 21:48 |
| Navi | Go to hell! | 21:48 |
| jott | we forgot to say "No" | 21:48 |
| jott | as in "it must not be given against will" | 21:48 |
| * Tak doesn't believe that saying "No" would have helped | 21:49 | |
| * Navi believes bugging a freenode op for a ban might help | 21:49 | |
| AmR-eye | it is a major difference, as free will is a key element | 21:49 |
| Navi | Free will sucks | 21:50 |
| michele_ | free will is god's exit plan | 21:50 |
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| Navi | Jeebus, bluetooth drains so much energy. | 21:51 |
| AmR-eye | peace in your hearts | 21:51 |
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| ligerzero03 | anyone know how to install flash 9 on the n770 with 2007HE? | 21:57 |
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| ligerzero03 | pm me please! | 21:57 |
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| Navi | Will my BP-5L batteries work for the N800? | 22:04 |
| Navi | I have like, three of them. | 22:05 |
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| BoxOfSnoo | Yep that's the battery it uses | 22:08 |
| Navi | Sweet | 22:08 |
| leo2007` | where to buy spare batteries for n810? | 22:11 |
| Navi | A few different places | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | The intartubes. | 22:14 |
| Navi | The ultraslim looks like it's insanely hard to get used to | 22:14 |
| Navi | Hi GeneralAntilles | 22:14 |
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| konttori | hey, what was the file to modify to remap keyboard? | 22:28 |
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| wwp | konttori: the rx-44 thing? | 22:30 |
| jott | konttori: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 or what? | 22:31 |
| konttori | I suppose that then | 22:31 |
| konttori | ah. cool. | 22:31 |
| * konttori goes to check it out | 22:31 | |
| jott | yeah tweak it! the keyboard so much unused key combinations :) | 22:31 |
| BTobotras | Anybody uses xterm and configured additional control keys on key panel? | 22:32 |
| Mousey | i tried to put | on the key panel | 22:32 |
| Mousey | it puts it, but doesn't print it when i click it | 22:32 |
| Mousey | FAIL! | 22:32 |
| wwp | hmm packages for userland must show user/* (where * is Utilities or whatever). what about packages like system libs? | 22:33 |
| * Mousey cries | 22:33 | |
| jott | for | you have to set the value to "bar" | 22:33 |
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| Tak | wwp: they can be in whatever group, but they won't be directly installable via the App Manager if they're not in user/whatever | 22:33 |
| wwp | Tak: yes.. but apps that have deps (libs). those libs could be "unvisible" from the user list but still be installed by the deps mechanism, no? | 22:34 |
| jott | and for F-keys you can use "Escape, n" for Fn | 22:34 |
| Tak | Yes. | 22:34 |
| wwp | Tak: then I wonder, what's usual for non-user libs? libraries/blah or what? | 22:35 |
| Tak | just blah | 22:36 |
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| wwp | ;)) | 22:36 |
| jott | wwp: debian/ubuntu uses "Section: libs" and "libdevel" you should go for that ;) | 22:37 |
| mwaldron | question on os2008 wifi icons if anone has sec. I know the normal one looks like, and the Wep one with the padlock in it. I assume the WPA one is the icon with 3 keyholes in the padlock. What is the icon with a dot above the strength indicator? is that to denote adhoc peer to peer? | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 22:38 |
| mwaldron | interesting | 22:38 |
| mwaldron | so someone in my company has a laptop in adoc with an SSID of "FreeInternet" aimed at our boardroom. | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, Windows likes to recreate ad hoc networks it connects to. | 22:39 |
| Tak | winxp PCs accumulate adhoc net...yeah | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | It gets nostalgic or something. | 22:39 |
| mwaldron | nice | 22:40 |
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| ||cw | mwaldron: yeah, there are several of those adhoc names going around | 22:40 |
| ||cw | they just need to delete the profile | 22:40 |
| ||cw | though I've always wondered, if you join the adhoc and had a dhcp server running, would you then have full access to all pc's on it? | 22:41 |
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| myren | do recent webkits have SVG support? | 22:43 |
| mwaldron | yeah, if i find the offending machine | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should. | 22:43 |
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| Tak | it seems to me that, even though they're advertising the adhoc network, usually they don't allow connections | 22:44 |
| mwaldron | it allowed me to connect to it, gave me an ip, but no routing | 22:44 |
| Tak | hell, winxp can barely connect adhoc under the /best/ circumstances | 22:45 |
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| fysa | nice, evince cbr/cbz support works.. | 23:15 |
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| lcuk_3 | in linux is there a way to copy all executable files in a folder to somewhere else (in windows its *.exe or *.dll) linux doesnt have extensions to help.. | 23:24 |
| lcuk_3 | or is this the reason why people have a bin folder? | 23:25 |
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| wwp | and the x flag | 23:26 |
| wwp | but what makes something executable is not its file aspect, but its file contents | 23:26 |
| lcuk_3 | ding, excellent thanks wwp | 23:26 |
| wwp | an exec could miss the x flag, or a non-exec has it | 23:26 |
| lcuk_3 | its not that, im just compiling up tiny examples and wrote a tiny script to make/scp/execture the primary executable i just built. i didnt want to have to change it for every tiny project i test | 23:27 |
| wwp | ok | 23:28 |
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| lcuk_3 | so i will simply filter to those with x perms and it should work nicely :) | 23:28 |
| lcuk_3 | incientally, is there a way to get the makefile deploying and running? | 23:28 |
| nocelic | lcuk_3: and if that fails, "file" command is your friend | 23:29 |
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| lcuk_3 | filetype ident checker...nice - like an antivirus scanner - checking for signatures inside :) | 23:30 |
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| pupnik | asdoih | 23:43 |
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| pupnik | npaspfnapsfnpnpnasfpnaspfnp | 23:46 |
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| lcuk_3 | pupnik, you got gramlins or a norty kitty? | 23:52 |
| lcuk_3 | e | 23:52 |
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| pH5 | whoever you are, please stop walking over pupnik's keyboard | 23:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha . . . cat's. There's one here trying to dial Gizmo from my N800. <_< | 23:59 |
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