IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-11-30

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jeff1f	if it company wide, I might stop in!	00:01
halley	Worth a check. :)	00:01
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jeff1f	So does the remote on the n810 headset control track foward/reverse?	00:31
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Palintheus	anyone have any suggestions on phones to get, at&t service, that I would sometimes tether for internet to a N8x0?	00:36
Palintheus	non-pda type	00:36
pupnik	good question	00:36
pupnik	maybe ITT search would help	00:36
pupnik	tethering?	00:36
pupnik	tether?	00:36
Palintheus	searched a bit, mostly found bb, or other higher priced suggestions	00:37
Palintheus	tether, use for a modem when no wifi avail	00:37
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Palintheus	and can't find any info on newer phones on itt (nokia 6555, samsung a737	00:43
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doublec	Palintheus: I use a Nokia N73. It works fine with the N800.	00:51
zerojay	Palintheus: I have both of those phones at work, I believe.	00:51
zerojay	Palintheus: I can check it for you tomorrow.	00:51
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Palintheus	that would be great...trying to catch the sales att is having on their phones, and trying to plan for when I get my N8x0(still haven't decided between the 800 or 810)	00:52
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zerojay	Well, I can't promise that the providers here would have the exact same options.	00:53
zerojay	But I'll let you know if I still have them.	00:53
zerojay	I know we had the prereleases a few months ago.	00:54
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Palintheus	well if the phone will connect Im sure I can use at&t's date service, just want to make sure the phone will work without much work, unless its the provider I should be worried about	00:55
zerojay	Well, some providers disable certain features.	00:57
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Palintheus	Ive not seen any issues or complaints on the forums with AT&T/Cingular	00:58
pupnik	duno	00:58
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Palintheus	::shrug:: will probably just end up getting the cheapest one that has bluetooth, 3g, and a decent review on phonescoop	01:00
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inz	ohmygod, someone broke youtube	01:07
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jeff1f	Palintheus, if you get it all sorted out, be sure to make a post on itt about it	01:09
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Palintheus	will do	01:10
pupnik	here, product porn that can compete with N810 http://vmpseurope.com/news.htm - best speaker bargains under $10,000	01:12
oever	pupnik: no fibonacci based speakers?	01:14
pupnik	you referring to B^W nautilus?	01:14
pupnik	they are addressing a problem that these VMPSes do not have	01:15
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oever	pupnik: yeah, i like the looks of those speakers (and the sound)	01:19
pupnik	well cheap speakers have gotten a lot better since .. 1993 when i was heavily into this stuff :)	01:20
pupnik	but if i can get a chance, i will set up a VMPS listening room - and charge 50 euro an hour or something	01:21
oever	pupnik: what's vmps?	01:22
oever	ah, found it	01:23
pupnik	a speaker designer who made his mark in the 80s	01:23
oever	ribbons speakers	01:23
pupnik	with phase-aligned drivers	01:23
oever	electrostatic stuff i guess	01:23
pupnik	then he found a ribbon that was better than the competition in 2002	01:23
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, my Axioms suite me well enough for now.	01:23
pupnik	got a link GeneralAntilles ?	01:23
GeneralAntilles	http://axiomaudio.com/	01:24
GeneralAntilles	http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/igobtkb.jpg	01:24
GeneralAntilles	You can see the bottom of one of them there. ;)	01:24
pupnik	i wish i were a speaker dealer sometimes	01:25
pupnik	hehe	01:25
oever	i think nautilus is expensive, no?	01:25
pupnik	yes	01:26
oever	pupnik: 10k?	01:26
pupnik	i am such an IDIOT for spending thousands on computers and not on good speakers	01:26
pupnik	VMPS range from 1600-23000 USD	01:26
* oever drops jaw		01:27
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, but speakers like that will last you about forever.	01:27
pupnik	those axioms have some good drivers	01:28
GeneralAntilles	I haven't heard anything better for the price.	01:28
pupnik	friend of mine loved spicas, another loved bnw bookshelves	01:29
pupnik	nice	01:29
* DRoBeR is away: out of order		01:29
pupnik	i never had really good speakers - just some event 20/20 monitors (which had impressive performance)	01:29
oever	i've some nice jambo ones atm	01:30
oever	they're already about 15 years old	01:30
GeneralAntilles	I need a better receiver at this point.	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Got a 500-series Onkyo. It's not bad, but a little on the weak side.	01:31
pupnik	got myself two pair adcom gfa 565 monoblocks :)	01:32
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pupnik	you can arc-weld with those amps :)	01:32
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GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:32
GeneralAntilles	I'll be getting a Mac Pro before I do any audio upgrades, though.	01:33
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pupnik	right now i just have little 3 inch computer monitors - really SICK of no hi-end audio scene over here	01:37
pupnik	in this little puddle of a town	01:37
GeneralAntilles	Time to take out a small-business loan. :P	01:37
zerojay	Jablet's got over 250 accounts now.	01:38
zerojay	I'm half considering doing that. ;P	01:38
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GeneralAntilles	Speaking of which.	01:40
* GeneralAntilles hands zerojay some virtual dollars.		01:41
zerojay	Hah.	01:41
zerojay	Monopoly money. :)	01:41
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pupnik	yeah these euros are harder to print	01:45
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zerojay	GeneralAntilles: Oh, man.. thank you very much.	01:48
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GeneralAntilles	Sure thing.	01:49
GeneralAntilles	We'll call it my service fee for 12 months. :P	01:49
zerojay	Haha.. sounds good. :)	01:49
zerojay	I can't get at it though, unfortunately.	01:49
zerojay	I think Tex has to connect it to a bank account before anything can be touched.	01:49
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GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:50
zerojay	I don't know, I pretty much leave that end of things to him.	01:50
GeneralAntilles	You can look, but not touch!	01:50
zerojay	Such a tease. lol	01:50
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zerojay	No, I'm not.	01:50
zerojay	Or your bot either.	01:51
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lopz	re	02:07
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corevette	i just installed os2007 HE and it keeps crashing, is there a program or something i can do to make it stop?	02:29
pupnik	the OS?	02:30
_Monkey	the os is the thing that gets apps into the problem in the first place, and the only thing it can do to deal with it is go around shooting things	02:30
pupnik	or browser	02:30
_Monkey	browser is open sources	02:30
pupnik	STFU MONKEY	02:31
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GeneralAntilles	He really needs a trigger.	02:31
corevette	so what should i do	02:31
pupnik	I need a gun	02:31
pupnik	ok script monkey fuck time is coming up real soon now	02:31
pupnik	every god damn word in the dictionary is getting unlearned bitch ass bot	02:32
pupnik	sorry corevette - when does it crash?	02:32
corevette	browsing the web mostly pupnik	02:32
pupnik	you have a new version of 2007he?	02:33
pupnik	there was a memory leak that got fixed 3 weeks ago	02:33
corevette	yes pupnik	02:33
corevette	how do i tell which is latest and which version i have	02:33
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pupnik	the filename you flashed	02:33
corevette	SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_MR0	02:34
corevette	what is latest	02:34
corevette	wait	02:34
corevette	SU-18_2007HACKER_4.2007.45-1_PR_F5_MR0_ARM	02:34
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corevette	pupnik: wheri s latest versiON	02:37
pupnik	i dunno	02:37
pupnik	_Monkey: forget a	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik, I didn't have anything matching a	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget b	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik, I didn't have anything matching b	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget c	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik: I forgot c	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget d	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik: I forgot d	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget e	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik, I didn't have anything matching e	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget f	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik, I didn't have anything matching f	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget g	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik, I didn't have anything matching g	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget h	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik, I didn't have anything matching h	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: forget i	02:38
_Monkey	pupnik: I forgot i	02:38
GeneralAntilles	j. ;)	02:38
pupnik	_Monkey: I is <reply>	02:38
_Monkey	OK, pupnik.	02:38
pupnik	FUCKHEAD BOT	02:38
pupnik	nobody	02:40
_Monkey	i guess nobody is outgoing. they have trouble making friends themselves if they move	02:40
pupnik	FUCK HEAD BOT	02:40
pupnik	YOU ARE GOD DAMN GOING DOWN	02:40
pupnik	who did this thing	02:41
pupnik	timeless?	02:41
_Monkey	timeless is probably the microb architect	02:41
pupnik	milhouse?	02:41
_Monkey	milhouse is the owner of _monkey	02:41
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	02:41
pupnik	there we go	02:41
pupnik	217.155.26.15	02:41
corevette	pupnik: ping	02:43
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corevette	should i use: "2nd FIASCO image of the OS 2007 Hacker Edition for Nokia 770 Internet Tablets" or the "LATEST FIASCO image of the OS 2007 Hacker Edition for Nokia 770 Internet Tablets"	02:44
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pupnik	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	02:50
pupnik	vote in ITT poll	02:50
GeneralAntilles	Haha	02:52
GeneralAntilles	You're slipping, pupnik. :P	02:52
pupnik	thanks	02:52
pupnik	for voting	02:53
pupnik	oh we will be annoying	02:53
pupnik	the royal we, you understand	02:53
pupnik	the ~schizophrenic~ we	02:53
pupnik	_Monkey: forget monkey	02:54
_Monkey	pupnik: I forgot monkey	02:54
pupnik	_Monkey: monkey is an incredibly, extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions the words occurring before "is" or "are". Such as the word "monkey".	02:56
_Monkey	OK, pupnik.	02:56
pupnik	monkey?	02:56
_Monkey	monkey is an incredibly, extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions the words occurring before "is" or "are". Such as the word "monkey".	02:56
pupnik	_Monkey: forget monkey	02:56
_Monkey	pupnik: I forgot monkey	02:56
pupnik	_Monkey: monkey is an incredibly, extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions the words occurring before "is" or "are". Such as the word "monkey". PLEASE VOTE ON WHETHER YOU WANT THIS BEHAVIOR TO STOP HERE -=-->>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://w	02:57
pupnik	monkey?	02:57
pupnik	hah	02:57
pupnik	corevette: i dunno	02:57
Robot101	pupnik: this is more annoying than the bot ever was	02:57
pupnik	corevette: i went back to 2006	02:57
Robot101	pupnik: why not just ask milhouse to make it only speak when spoken to?	02:57
pupnik	annoying is in the mind of the annoyed	02:57
Robot101	they can be very useful	02:58
pupnik	because many people have done so for months	02:58
Robot101	a la, foo: tell bar about baz	02:58
Robot101	why do you think a survey will help any? :P	02:58
pupnik	vote in the poll!	02:58
pupnik	multiboot?	02:59
_Monkey	multiboot is "LILO supreme being - 5th element - protect you" http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card	02:59
pupnik	monkey?	02:59
pupnik	_monkey: forget monkey	02:59
_Monkey	pupnik, I didn't have anything matching monkey	02:59
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pupnik	_Monkey: monkey is an incredibly, extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions the words occurring before "is" or "are". Such as the word "monkey". PLEASE VOTE ON WHETHER YOU WANT THIS BEHAVIOR TO STOP HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/for	02:59
_Monkey	that entry is too long, pupnik	02:59
_Monkey	OK, pupnik.	02:59
pupnik	_Monkey: monkey is an incredibly, extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions the words occurring before "is" or "are". Such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	03:00
_Monkey	i'm sorry, but that entry is too long, pupnik	03:00
_Monkey	OK, pupnik.	03:00
pupnik	_Monkey: monkey is an extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions any stored keyword - such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	03:00
_Monkey	OK, pupnik.	03:00
*** pupnik changes topic to "monkey is an extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions any stored keyword - such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489"		03:01
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zerojay	pupnik: Hell yeah.	03:16
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penguinbait	cdroms anyone?	03:16
zerojay	change bot?	03:16
_Monkey	zerojay: that doesn't look right	03:16
penguinbait	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12491&goto=newpost	03:16
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zerojay	Awww.. it didn't crash.	03:17
zerojay	Damn it.	03:17
zerojay	change life?	03:17
_Monkey	zerojay: that doesn't look right	03:17
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corevette	how do i connect my 770 to my computer via vncviewer?	05:01
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GeneralAntilles	install x11vnc and connect	05:11
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oil	GeneralAntilles: is the vnc-server available for os2008 yet? if it is, on which repository?	05:22
GeneralAntilles	Just pull it from the bora repo	05:22
GeneralAntilles	it works fine.	05:23
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zerojay	It does?	05:23
GeneralAntilles	http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/n800.html	05:23
GeneralAntilles	The proof. ;)	05:23
oil	hmm. I just can find vncviewer, not the server	05:29
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GeneralAntilles	http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702	05:31
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edt	how difficult is the port to os2008? If its not too hard would someone beable to complete pwsafe-1.2 for it? Its the one app stopping me from going to the new os on my n800.	05:36
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oil	GeneralAntilles: big thanks. it does work	05:37
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e-squizo	I have the feeling that my scratchbox installation is botched (my fault), and I want to reinstall it from scratch... is there a recommended procedure to uninstalll scratchbox (I installed it through the script)	05:39
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halley	Well, the N810 "map" app is nowhere near as polished as a Garmin, but it does have a lot better data than my 10 year old unit.	05:43
halley	I thought running the screen for a 45min drive would drain the battery to nothing, too.	05:44
GeneralAntilles	It's hard to compete with a Garmin.	05:44
GeneralAntilles	The Nuvis are some pretty hot shit these days.	05:44
halley	Agreed, though I don't give a crap about the point-to-point-turn-here-drive-two-miles-turn-there features.	05:45
GeneralAntilles	Ha	05:45
halley	I just want to be able to effortlessly mark where I am, and then tell it which marks I want to approach.	05:45
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halley	The Garmin is good at that, this map software has a long way to go. It required several presses to save a new mark (not counting the typing).	05:46
halley	One bug in the map software; if I disable the GPS, it starts asking every 10sec "Do you want to enable GPS? [OK] [Cancel]" no matter what I'm doing.	05:51
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truenix	hey guys.. still looking for ruby-dbus download for n800.. anyone know of a site?	06:06
truenix	or a good libconic tutorial for n800	06:07
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a-l-p-h-a	is samba	07:07
a-l-p-h-a	samba is	07:07
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a-l-p-h-a	hmm... okay... is there a samba client for os2007 hacker edition?	07:08
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corevette	do you think it would be possible to create my desktop resolution on my pc the same as my 770 so when I use vnc, it loads exactly what is on the screen?	08:49
corevette	without scrolling	08:50
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K`zan	Night folks	09:24
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ptit_seb	Hi, I have question on GPS Navicore for n770	09:49
ptit_seb	I would like use module bluetooth an software naviore on n800 instead of n770	09:50
ptit_seb	is what it works?	09:50
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GeneralAntilles	ptit_seb, what's this thing you call "n770"?	09:56
GeneralAntilles	Also: yes.	09:57
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ptit_seb	I call n770, the Nokia Tablet n770	09:58
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GeneralAntilles	There's no such thing as an "n770"	09:58
GeneralAntilles	There's a 770.	09:58
GeneralAntilles	But no "n770"	09:58
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GeneralAntilles	The bundled GPS unit will work on any of the Nokia ITs (770/N800/N810)	09:59
ptit_seb	ok	09:59
ptit_seb	sorry ;)	09:59
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure about moving the software license	10:00
GeneralAntilles	but I'm fairly certain it'll be usable with the new bundled Map application in OS2008.	10:00
ptit_seb	even if the OS differs (OS2006 for 770 and OS2007 for n800...)	10:01
GeneralAntilles	The bluetooth GPS unit will work with anything	10:01
keesj	wow. video calling with gizmo on the n800/n810!	10:01
GeneralAntilles	The software is available for both the 770 and the N800	10:01
GeneralAntilles	and the licenses should work on both.	10:02
dhr	has anyone here used Nokia LD-3W GPS with "mapper"?	10:02
GeneralAntilles	It will work fine, dhr.	10:02
dhr	wow -- just as I was typing my query, GPS comes up in discussion!	10:02
keesj	with skype 2.0 beta video calling for linux we might even get two programs who perform good video calling	10:02
dhr	I'm trying to use "mapper", the variant of maemo-mapper meant for Open Street Map	10:03
dhr	It does not seem to see the GPS unit.	10:03
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ptit_seb	OK, it is by the fact that I have one 770 with GPS and I like to buy one n800 (not n810) but not to buy a second time GPS!	10:03
dhr	I have the navcore software, but for the wrong continent :-). It seems to see the GPS (more lights blink on the GPS with navcore than anything else).	10:04
dhr	with a lot of work, mapper can get into a mode saying "searching for GPS". But it doesn't yet find it.	10:05
GeneralAntilles	There may be an option under prefs, dhr.	10:08
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GeneralAntilles	What OS are you running?	10:08
GeneralAntilles	I know there was some issue with earlier builds of 2.0 not acquiring GPS	10:08
GeneralAntilles	if mapper is some kind of fork	10:09
GeneralAntilles	it may not have the patches	10:09
GeneralAntilles	Should you be able to use maemo mapper with OSM with the main branch?	10:09
ptit_seb	OS2207	10:09
ptit_seb	sorry OS2007	10:09
dhr	I'm using http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Onion/Mapper	10:10
dhr	My OS is 2006.	10:10
GeneralAntilles	Interesting	10:11
GeneralAntilles	mapper I can't help with	10:12
dhr	I have some bluetooth applet (I don't know the correct term) installed with an icon in the top right bar.	10:12
GeneralAntilles	OS2006 is older than I remember clearly.	10:12
dhr	OK, I'll remove mapper and try maemo-mapper.	10:12
GeneralAntilles	I don't recall if I used a 3rd party bluetooth plugin or not.	10:12
dhr	what OS do you recommend for a 770?	10:13
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GeneralAntilles	Right now? Probably OS2006	10:15
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dhr	the bluetooth plugin package is called maemo-bt-plugin (I just checked)	10:15
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dhr	GeneralAntilles: my application manager offers me maemo-mapper 1.3.5 -- is that too old? You mentioned 2.0	10:18
GeneralAntilles	Seems like it should be 1.4.2 or 4.3	10:19
GeneralAntilles	2.0 is OS2007 or better	10:19
GeneralAntilles	Check maemo mapper's website.	10:19
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dhr	It looks as if 2.x can run on os2006. Is that a wise choice?	10:21
GeneralAntilles	Yes and no	10:21
dhr	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-mapper/	10:21
GeneralAntilles	Yes, because it's fucking awesome.	10:21
GeneralAntilles	and no, because it's a little slower than 1.x	10:21
GeneralAntilles	Though it gives you about a 50% storage savings with map caching.	10:22
dhr	we want to get something up for creating OSM maps. A mapping weekend here.	10:22
doc\|home	so, anyone know when libglade stuff will be fixed? :/	10:25
GeneralAntilles	Any luck pulling the bora edition?	10:29
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lopz	bye	10:36
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dhr	this is painful for a newbie. maemo-mapper requires libsqlite3. applications manager only offers me sqlite0. How is one supposed to find what repos are prudent to include?	10:38
GeneralAntilles	http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo2	10:39
GeneralAntilles	Searchable and everything	10:39
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dhr	now I'm really confused. I have eko.one.pl enabled and it has libsqlite3. So why does application manager not offer it?	10:43
dpb_	because it's a library and you're not in red pill mode	10:44
GeneralAntilles	It should resolve it, though.	10:45
GeneralAntilles	refresh the repos and try installing maemo mapper.	10:45
dhr	well, it didn't offer me a nice version of maemo-mapper so I downloaded it and used dpkg -i. I tried to specify the .deb to application manager but its file selector could not see /home/user/...	10:47
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GeneralAntilles	apt-get install libsqlite3 wont work?	10:48
dhr	"apt-get install libsqlite3" didn't work either.	10:48
GeneralAntilles	Huh	10:48
GeneralAntilles	Well, red-pill isn't a bad place to start	10:48
GeneralAntilles	Add a new repo	10:49
GeneralAntilles	type in "matrix" in the URL field	10:49
GeneralAntilles	then hit cancel	10:49
GeneralAntilles	and select the red pill.	10:49
dhr	wow!	10:49
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GeneralAntilles	Then try the apt-get install again.	10:49
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GeneralAntilles	You know what I don't miss? OS2005.	10:50
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dhr	still doesn't work. I had better stare at my repo declarations.	10:52
GeneralAntilles	http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/libsqlite3-0_3.3.8-1_armel.deb	10:53
GeneralAntilles	How about that?	10:53
dhr	right. That was what I was saying earlier.	10:54
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dhr	anything obviously wrong here?: http://pastebin.ca/802471	10:58
dhr	some URLs end in / and some do not. Does that matter?	10:59
GeneralAntilles	No, not as far as I've ever been able to tell.	11:00
GeneralAntilles	It'd bitch at you if there were a problem.	11:00
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dhr	there are mysteries. A couple of hours ago, application manager complained that it could not get to a particular IPv6 IP address.	11:01
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dhr	now in needs libgpsmgr. gronmayer says that is only in maemo garage, for gregale. Does that mean I cannot use it?	11:11
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rothiel	Hi guys :)	11:12
* dhr goes to bed. Very late (4:15 AM here).		11:13
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AD-N770	bon dia / good morning	11:26
hugolp	maemo.org is behaving weird	11:26
GeneralAntilles	maemo.org sucks. ;)	11:26
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hugolp	anyone can comment on Laika (the eclipse plugin for maemo) ? Im about to port one of my gtk programs to meamo and Im trying to figure out the best way	11:28
keesj	in what language is your app written?>	11:29
hugolp	c	11:29
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keesj	I don't know any users of that plugin	11:33
hugolp	the development seems outdated, it only talks about N770 and no changes since 2006	11:34
hugolp	guess not the best option	11:34
* timeless sighs		11:39
* timeless hates svn		11:39
timeless	would someone please tell me a safe way to get svn not to do recursive locking?	11:39
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GeneralAntilles	I could tell you an unsafe way.	11:41
timeless	i'm listening	11:42
GeneralAntilles	OK, get yourself a hammer.	11:42
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timeless	go one	11:42
timeless	go on	11:42
GeneralAntilles	Now beat the server for about 5 minutes.	11:43
GeneralAntilles	You should be set. ;)	11:43
timeless	server's on the wrong side of at least one ocean	11:43
timeless	can you provide the plane tickets too?	11:43
hugolp	timeless: depending on wich side of the ocean I can do it for you	11:44
GeneralAntilles	I could tell you how to get them.	11:44
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timeless	hugolp: i think the box in question is in some secure hosting area	11:44
GeneralAntilles	First, you need that hammer again.	11:44
GeneralAntilles	Then find a ticket agent.	11:44
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Khertan	Hi !	11:57
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inz	damnit, i think my laptop's hdd is done...	12:02
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GeneralAntilles	Who to I bitch to about the braindead backlight brightness controls?	12:13
GeneralAntilles	Why did they have to go and make the darkest setting super-bright?	12:14
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rocco	my battery life is awaful since the switch to beta 2008 is this known?	12:29
rocco	I oculd leave it on idle for about 3-4 days	12:29
rocco	it didn't even last a day now on 2008	12:29
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GeneralAntilles	My guess is that you've got something running away	12:40
GeneralAntilles	RSS applet?	12:40
_Monkey	RSS applet is useless	12:40
GeneralAntilles	_Monkey forget rss applet	12:40
_Monkey	GeneralAntilles: I forgot rss applet	12:40
GeneralAntilles	_Monkey RSS applet is a CPU hog	12:40
_Monkey	OK, GeneralAntilles.	12:40
GeneralAntilles	But really, rocco, the best answer is to just plug it in when you're at home and not using it.	12:42
rocco	Really?	12:42
rocco	i just hate doing that to batteries	12:42
rocco	I know Lions are supposed to be ok with it	12:43
rocco	old habits die hard	12:43
rocco	there is no rss applet	12:43
GeneralAntilles	In truth, discharging the battery down to nothing all the time actually does a LOT more harm than anything else you could do (minus shorting it or leaving it in a hot car for a few days)	12:44
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rocco	oh i know that	12:45
rocco	I never go down to less than 2 bars	12:45
rocco	I was just suprised	12:45
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rocco	i used to get about 6 hours constant use	12:45
rocco	I use it about 15-30 a day	12:46
rocco	and it used to be left on all the time, and lasted about 4 days normally...and only went down to 2 bars	12:46
GeneralAntilles	I'm still sticking to the runaway idea.	12:46
GeneralAntilles	Also, have your connection habits changed?	12:46
rocco	no	12:47
rocco	the only thing I did do was enable usb host mode, but didn't use it	12:47
rocco	well only for a few seconds	12:47
rocco	plugged in a usb stick and copied a few files	12:47
rocco	then unmounted and disconnected	12:47
GeneralAntilles	Well, here's an incredibly unscientific test:	12:50
GeneralAntilles	open up xterm and leave the device idle for a few seconds	12:51
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GeneralAntilles	then run: cat /proc/cpuinfo	12:51
keesj	rocco on the n800 I never had more then max a few hours use	12:51
keesj	If I don't put it on the wall power all the time it's always empty(even overnight)	12:51
rocco	keesj, wow	12:51
rocco	mine was awesome	12:51
GeneralAntilles	I got 4-ish hours of video flying out to California for thanksgiving on OS2008	12:52
keesj	I als have a 770 and that worked like you described, it was more like a phone and just kept running	12:52
keesj	on one battery?	12:52
GeneralAntilles	and about 5 hours of browsing at my layover in atlanta	12:52
GeneralAntilles	So, my battery life hasn't really changed from OS2007	12:52
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	12:52
GeneralAntilles	I brought 3 with me	12:53
keesj	perhaps it's the wifi/gmail that hogs?	12:53
sven-tek	Hi! I run os2008 on n800 and experience that i can not unlock the screen. Second time now. It says press (i) and then # (enter button in the cross). It does not react when i press the # then, like the button was defective. Now i have to remove the battery because i cant do anything else.	12:53
rocco	i always turn off my wifi when not in use	12:53
GeneralAntilles	only changed it out once when I forgot to charge the morning before I left to come back.	12:53
GeneralAntilles	It's a known bug, sven-tek.	12:53
sven-tek	ok	12:54
GeneralAntilles	Vote here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2311	12:54
sven-tek	cool there is a camera trick	12:55
sven-tek	cool idea	12:55
GeneralAntilles	Also, if anybody wants to get the lowest brightness setting back: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=102480#post102480	12:56
rocco	seems to be freq scaling ok	13:00
GeneralAntilles	Then maybe wifi.	13:01
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* ccooke notes that his n810 "should" arrive today. Which means if it does, I'll not be at home. Damn.		13:08
GeneralAntilles	Call in sick. ;)	13:09
murrayc	Oh, can we order them now?	13:09
ccooke	GeneralAntilles: it's my last day at this job. :-)	13:09
GeneralAntilles	Ha	13:09
ccooke	murrayc: I ordered mine on the 1st of November, IIRC	13:09
ccooke	ooh. They are actually now in stock at the place I ordered them	13:10
ccooke	yay - the one day nobody is going to be home all day, I'm expecting a delivery	13:10
ccooke	Perfect :-)	13:10
GeneralAntilles	Got a safe place for the driver to drop it?	13:10
lardman	still not in the UK Nokia shop though :(	13:10
GeneralAntilles	Leave a note and your cell number. ;)	13:10
murrayc	They aren't in the Nokia online shop for Germany yet.	13:10
ccooke	http://www.superetrader.co.uk/product_info.php?gad=CMDIu8kDEgg-s_Nh2Zr1URiY3OT-AyCY9p4z&products_id=2974&s=p	13:10
ccooke	(although the price has gone up a bit since I ordered)	13:11
ccooke	you can definitely get them cheaper	13:11
[pablo]	I never thought living in the states would be a benefit heh	13:12
ccooke	[pablo]: the UK has always been a bit overpriced for electronics	13:12
[pablo]	i didn't think it was that much	13:13
[pablo]	that's about $220 USD more than I paid for mine	13:13
ccooke	which is why I was very interested to note the companies that will let you rent a US postal address - one with a web interface, allowing you to ship anything that arrives there at very nice rates.	13:13
[pablo]	thats a pretty good idea	13:13
ccooke	I could get a macbook pro ordered in the US, shipped to the UK. Even including all the customs charges, I'd save about $1000	13:14
[pablo]	wow	13:14
ccooke	(the price difference is about $1500. $500 is eaten by shipping and customs)	13:14
rocco	ccooke, wow	13:15
rocco	and it's all legal?	13:15
ccooke	rocco: yes. You rent the address, you have to send a form off to the USPS which registers you with them.	13:15
rocco	cool	13:16
ccooke	I found one company by accident, but a quick search found another four	13:16
ccooke	there's actually a working business model with competition.	13:16
rocco	cool	13:16
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lardman	get a flight over for $500	13:18
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ccooke	http://www.usabox.com/ - I don't remember if this is the best of them	13:18
ccooke	lardman: then possibly get stung by customs on the way in...	13:18
lardman	perhaps...	13:18
lardman	:)	13:18
[pablo]	if you open it up they have no way of knowing you didn't leave with it do they?	13:19
ccooke	http://www.myus.com/ - this one has a rate calculator. Nice stuff.	13:19
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bedboi	hi there.	13:29
\|tbb\|	anyone knows where to get become root as deb file for n800 os2008, the wiki on ITT for os-application that works, doesnt work.	13:30
[pablo]	\|tbb\|: Eko One repo has the becomeroot package	13:32
[pablo]	works on OS2008 for n810	13:32
\|tbb\|	plz post the repro	13:33
[pablo]	\|tbb\|: http://gronmayer.com/it/ and search for 'becomeroot'	13:34
florian	hi bedboi	13:34
bedboi	hey florian	13:34
\|tbb\|	is someone around who using succesfully a bt stereo-headset with a2dp on a n800 os2008?	13:41
\|tbb\|	[pablo]: thx	13:41
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GeneralAntilles	No A2DP support under OS2008 yet.	13:42
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\|tbb\|	no hack around?	13:43
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[pablo]	not that I have seen	13:46
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GeneralAntilles	Kagu	13:47
niv_one_three	hi all, I am new here, I am reading about how to build my own kernel for the n800	13:47
GeneralAntilles	Anybody getting fairly frequent desktop crashes under the new beta?	13:47
niv_one_three	I just want to make sure I understand: is the nokia provided kernel open? where may I see the source?	13:48
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\|tbb\|	GeneralAntilles: the hack which is described for os 2007 works for 2008?	13:52
GeneralAntilles	As far as I know.	13:52
sp3000	niv_one_three: giyf? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/r/rx-34-kernel/	13:52
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sp3000	(ok, the link google turned up was to the bora variant, but... :)	13:53
* sp3000 is only a linkbot though and doesn't know anything beyond that		13:54
niv_one_three	sp3000 thanks	13:54
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rocco	hmmm my n800 just rebooted	14:10
rocco	it was doing nothing	14:10
rocco	and suddenly just went	14:10
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solmumaha	it's not getting enough attention	14:11
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GeneralAntilles	rocco, evidently the hardware watchdog decided that something was hung. ;)	14:12
jumpula	rocco: using ad-hoc wlan networks?	14:12
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pupnik	monkey?	14:17
_Monkey	monkey is an extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions any stored keyword - such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	14:17
rocco	very odd	14:18
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lardman	milhouse: what's your opinion of _Monkey?	14:23
zerojay	lardman: It's his bot, so what do you think he thinks of it? :)	14:24
sp3000	gobbling up unaddressed factoids isn't a problem with a single-channel bot	14:24
sp3000	spewing factoids unaddressed is :)	14:24
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lardman	I was just asking if he agrees that it should only speak when spoken to	14:25
lardman	was going to ask at least	14:26
zerojay	It shouldn't be here, period.	14:26
lardman	well some bots can be useful	14:26
lardman	for example:	14:26
lardman	~pastebin	14:26
infobot	[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste	14:26
lardman	that's a useful use for a bot	14:26
pupnik	who made infobod?	14:27
pupnik	t	14:27
lardman	I wonder if Monkey remembers that now	14:27
lardman	pastebin?	14:27
_Monkey	hmmm... pastebin is http://maemo.pastebin.org	14:27
lardman	well, that's vaguely useful	14:28
zerojay	No, it's not.	14:28
pupnik	monkey does have a lot of useful factoids now	14:28
lardman	yes, just ought to be ask for them rather than randomly giving	14:28
lardman	s/ask/asked	14:28
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pupnik	agree	14:29
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Khertan	someone know if it s possible to get all available wifi ap in python without gui ?	14:31
Khertan	or maybe is there a c code snippet that do that ?	14:31
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timeless	czr: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/maemo/source/projects/haf/README	14:32
* timeless gives up		14:32
timeless	hopefully that'll get properly indexed	14:32
timeless	the first attempt at indexing maemo failed (the indexer was killed by dreamhost)	14:32
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zerojay	So I got my little hack to get songs Media Player plays to be sent to Maemoscrobbler... and it mostly works.	14:33
sp3000	Khertan: gconf	14:33
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sp3000	hopefully without needing to parse bin/gconftool output... :\|	14:34
\|tbb\|	could it be that sudo doesnt work on n800 os2008 anymore, ive installed it succesfully from the repro pupnik posted	14:34
\|tbb\|	now i type sudo gainroot and then it ask me for an password	14:34
zerojay	And then I somehow got a song called "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ01234567890" by "stdout" reported to last.fm. wtf.	14:34
MoRpHeUz	zerojay: hehehe =)	14:35
sp3000	stdout are awesome	14:35
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zerojay	http://www.last.fm/user/darkstalker	14:35
zerojay	Not quite sure how it happened.	14:35
zerojay	Everything else listed worked.	14:35
Khertan	sp3000: i don't need the know ap ... what i want is in discovering of all ap available ...	14:36
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sp3000	ah. dunno	14:36
zerojay	Khertan: You'll have to do it in two passes, I believe.	14:36
\|tbb\|	anyone else got that problem? is the repro false?	14:37
sp3000	"abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ01234567890" rather sounds like a modern version of a jackson 5 song	14:37
zerojay	Hahaha.	14:37
sp3000	the kind you would find in gh3 if the videos are any indication	14:38
Khertan	zerojay> in two passes ... maybe ... but how ? gconf only store know ap	14:38
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GeneralAntilles	Works fine for me, \|tbb\|, did you try rootme?	14:42
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[pablo]	horray netsplit!	14:46
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timeless	nice	14:51
timeless	i'm now an anonymous poster to maemo-developers	14:51
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Khertan	grrrr stupid netsplit	14:57
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\|tbb\|	pablo have u seen what i have posted?	14:59
[pablo]	no, what?	14:59
\|tbb\|	could it be that sudo gainroot doesnt work on n800 os2008 anymore, ive installed it succesfully from the repro pablo posted	15:00
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[pablo]	i'm not sure, i haven't used it on an n800 =/	15:00
GeneralAntilles	It works fine, \|tbb\|	15:00
[pablo]	in theory it should be the same though	15:00
GeneralAntilles	did you try 'rootme'?	15:00
\|tbb\|	as password?	15:01
GeneralAntilles	If you can't get it to work, then you're doing something wrong. :)	15:01
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	15:01
\|tbb\|	Sorry, try again	15:01
GeneralAntilles	Did you change the password?	15:02
\|tbb\|	i was using becomeroot on n770 also on n800 with Os2007, also with the image of the n810 it always was working but now it wont work	15:02
GeneralAntilles	Have you been muxing around with sudoers or something?	15:03
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GeneralAntilles	(there's no such thing as an 'n770' :))	15:03
\|tbb\|	ive not changed the password also the password rootme has never worked for me on any tablet i was having	15:03
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GeneralAntilles	Interesting, it's always been rootme for me.	15:04
dpb_	sudo doesn't use the root password.	15:04
[pablo]	\|tbb\|: have you changed your users password?	15:04
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[pablo]	the becomeroot package is designed to not require a password for the command though	15:05
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\|tbb\|	no i havent	15:06
\|tbb\|	damn got to reflash the device, then i am for sure	15:06
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\|tbb\|	will a backup save the installed application and settings on that os2008	15:07
[pablo]	yes	15:07
dpb_	it saves the installed applications?	15:07
[pablo]	no, it saves what applications are installed, and reinstalls them	15:08
[pablo]	when you restore	15:08
[pablo]	but if you install from a .deb it wont be able to find it in the repo's	15:08
[pablo]	so you'll need to save those	15:08
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\|tbb\|	nice	15:08
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[pablo]	i just created a debs directory in the backup directory on my memory card, and saved all the apps i install straight from a deb there	15:08
[pablo]	so they are there when I restore	15:08
\|tbb\|	will it change the user password if i allready have changed it (what i dont have!)	15:09
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[pablo]	i also ran into a small problem when restoring, it still disables maemo extras by default causing a lot of not found application and dependency conflicts, once restore finished I had to run apt-get -f install from command line before I could continue using package manager	15:09
dpb_	don't think so..	15:10
[pablo]	it shouldn't save that in the backup, but i haven't tried it	15:10
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody having trouble with the desktop crashing when waking an attached bluetooth keyboard from sleep with the OS2008 beta?	15:10
GeneralAntilles	It makes note of what you have installed and reinstalls them when you restore the backup.	15:10
GeneralAntilles	Though it does not save menu positions, so you have to give it those again.	15:10
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[pablo]	GeneralAntilles: it saved manu position for some of my apps, not all of them though	15:11
GeneralAntilles	Didn't work that way for me, [pablo].	15:11
GeneralAntilles	It did disable extras.	15:11
GeneralAntilles	but I didn't have any problem with reenabling it and running the restore process again.	15:11
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GeneralAntilles	It didn't save menu position for any of mine	15:11
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GeneralAntilles	Nor did it keep the menu positions of the bundled apps.	15:12
[pablo]	yeah those didn't keep for me either	15:12
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GeneralAntilles	Bug 2393?	15:13
_Monkey	Bug 2393 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2393	15:13
GeneralAntilles	Is the one.	15:13
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[pablo]	i'd have to do it again and pay attention, but i know all of the apps that prompt you where to install it in the menu remembered where I had had them, not sure what the other ones did	15:13
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GeneralAntilles	One of these should be resolved as duplicate, but which? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1100 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1965	15:16
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[pablo]	the first one? the second one seems to follow whatever guidelines there may be a bit better	15:18
GeneralAntilles	Good enough for me!	15:18
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* Tak blinks at the topic		15:20
Tak	everybody at once: /help ignore	15:20
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GeneralAntilles	Ha	15:22
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Jaffa	Morning, all	15:33
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GeneralAntilles	Howdy, Jaffa.	15:36
[pablo]	morning	15:36
_Monkey	aloha	15:36
[pablo]	heh	15:36
[pablo]	he's a conversational bot now too apparently?	15:37
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GeneralAntilles	_Monkey is many things, but 'useful' is not one of them.	15:37
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GeneralAntilles	timeless, what's the word on the browser liking to steal focus during activity while its in the background?	15:43
[pablo]	i wonder if he stored that =P	15:43
GeneralAntilles	Unlikely	15:43
GeneralAntilles	_Monkey?	15:43
_Monkey	GeneralAntilles?	15:43
[pablo]	sad	15:43
[pablo]	is there a command line equivelant of pressing the power button and selecting lock device?	15:45
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\|tbb\|	wow that backup tool rocks, now	15:47
\|tbb\|	k not really	15:48
\|tbb\|	if a installing progress fails it stops the whole process	15:49
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\|tbb\|	how can i start it again, and do i have the chance to sort the order how the installing proccess should go, like 1. python 2. maemo-mapper 3.......	15:50
[pablo]	it didn't stop it for me, just prompted me to acknowledge that it did not work	15:50
GeneralAntilles	It's in the menu	15:50
[pablo]	main menu in application manager has a "restore application" option	15:50
GeneralAntilles	where refresh repos is	15:50
[pablo]	under tools	15:50
\|tbb\|	a k	15:50
dpb_	[pablo]: most likely there's a dbus command to lock the device, but dunno what it is. :)	15:51
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[pablo]	the osso-statusbar-menu app allows running terminal commands from it's drop down, would be far more convenient than the power button heh	15:52
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[pablo]	i shall start digging	15:52
\|tbb\|	when a programm is updated, will it allready download and install the updated version?	15:52
\|tbb\|	anyone familar with ukmp?	15:53
[pablo]	no, you have to click on check for updates, and update each app manually	15:53
inz	pablo, hint: mce-dev, dbus-send	15:53
inz	what is osso-statusbar-menu btw?	15:54
\|tbb\|	is vpnc only for cisco routers?	15:55
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\|tbb\|	btw: i wonder how big is the community increase on irc in #maemo	15:56
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dpb_	increase from what?	15:57
[pablo]	inz: a cpu/memory monitor	15:57
\|tbb\|	visitors instead of some years ago	15:57
[pablo]	inz: comes builtin with a 'take screenshot' option and allows you to add other commands to run from it's menu ... quite useful, although sticks out like a sore thumb in the 'tray' area	15:58
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hugolp	Hi	16:04
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hugolp	can sdk 3.2 and skd 4.0 live in the same computer?	16:04
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alterego	hugol, all SDK's can live on the same machine.	16:04
hugolp	alterego: thanks	16:05
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[pablo]	... /usr/share/docs/ is purged by something called docpurge? any idea how to have it not do that so I can read docs?	16:14
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kaltsi	[pablo]: apt-get remove docpurge ?	16:16
Andy80	hi all	16:16
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kaltsi	[pablo]: it works by installing a script under /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ and whenever you install a package it empties those certain directories	16:18
[pablo]	kaltsi: can I just download the contents of a certain package from somehwhere?	16:19
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kaltsi	[pablo]: most packages yes.. which are you interested in?	16:19
[pablo]	mce-dev	16:20
kaltsi	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/m/mce-dev/	16:21
[pablo]	thank you =)	16:21
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kaltsi	that's in the SDK repository.. you can browse it with your browser http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/ like that.. not a good browsing experience however :)	16:21
\|tbb\|	is vpnc only for cisco routers?	16:23
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lopz	hola	16:37
_Monkey	hola, lopz	16:37
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florian	bedboi: I have something for you...	17:00
bedboi	what?	17:04
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florian	bedboi: Some gpe-sudoku stuff... check your GMail inbox :-)	17:07
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bedboi	o	17:08
bedboi	ok	17:08
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Segnale007	hi there	17:55
_Monkey	bonjour, Segnale007	17:55
\|tbb\|	anyone familar with vpnc	17:57
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Jaffa	planet dead	18:06
Jaffa	it's the weekend :)	18:06
zoran	mars already dead	18:06
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rothiel	re	18:08
rothiel	I have trouble with the sdk	18:09
rothiel	with ffmpeg... correctly installed	18:09
rothiel	but gcc returns me an error	18:09
rothiel	is there someone who succeeds to compile for N800 a prog with use of the ffmpeg library ?	18:10
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Jaffa	rothiel: see mplayer in garage?	18:16
rothiel	I'm going to see that :)	18:17
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jikolup	is there anything in particular that needs to be done for the n810 gps to work other than launching the mapping application?	18:45
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pupnik	well, first it needs to be built, paid-for, then delivered	18:46
jikolup	hehe :>	18:47
jikolup	I think mine is defective, it's not picking up any sattelites in the status bar	18:47
jikolup	I tried outdoors too but not result	18:47
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pupnik	they say it can take a few minutes	18:49
jikolup	yeah I left it for like 15minutes both outdoors and indoors	18:49
pupnik	ok	18:49
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pupnik	maybe the USA is about to attack your country	18:49
jikolup	good point, our satellites are jammed it seems like	18:50
jikolup	however my other gps works fine	18:50
pupnik	:/	18:51
pupnik	i was hoping to use the gps in the N810	18:51
jikolup	also it seems that the navigation part is not free	18:51
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pupnik	there's a free and a pay-service map	18:53
jikolup	I meant the navigation system	18:53
jikolup	I wonder if I have to register for that in order for it to work, they don't allow any registration until tomorrow (dec 1st) but that doesn't make sense the sattelite should pick up	18:54
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fysa	jikolup: try leaving it outdoors again for an hour or so.	19:24
fysa	BTW, where do you live? ;)	19:24
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czr	timelyx, at least README works now :-)	19:32
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jikolup	fysa miami	19:38
jikolup	fysa: I left it just now	19:38
fysa	sorry, I can't get there in an hour.. I'm way up in Tampa	19:38
fysa	:)	19:38
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jikolup	hehe xD	19:39
jikolup	I guess it's because of the trees and stuff there is barely any eye of sight to the sky :>	19:40
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truenix	anyone use ruby-dbus at all?	19:40
felipec	truenix: I do	19:40
Segnale007	hi there	19:40
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felipec	or at least used to do	19:40
Segnale007	I have just get a new and beautiful N800	19:41
Segnale007	I have installed osso-xterm	19:41
Segnale007	but	19:41
Segnale007	the question is	19:41
Segnale007	what is the root password ?	19:41
_Monkey	the root password is rootme	19:41
Segnale007	ah	19:41
Segnale007	ok lol	19:41
truenix	felipec, first off once i get a service handle.. how do i get a list of available objects?	19:41
Segnale007	ty	19:41
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truenix	felipec, and have you gotten it to work as is on n800?	19:42
truenix	i get Nil to String errors	19:42
Segnale007	uhm	19:42
Segnale007	rootme doesn't work :(	19:42
Segnale007	help me please	19:42
czr	Segnale007, OS2008?	19:42
Segnale007	no	19:42
Segnale007	os2007	19:43
_Monkey	os2007 is dead.	19:43
Segnale007	lol	19:43
czr	Segnale007, how are you trying to get root?	19:43
truenix	download becomeroot and then use 'sudo gainroot'	19:43
Segnale007	yah	19:43
Segnale007	root doesn't work	19:43
* czr sighs		19:43
felipec	truenix: it depends on the implementation you are using	19:43
truenix	https://trac.luon.net/data/ruby-dbus/tutorial	19:44
truenix	but im not partial to anything :P i just want something that works on the n800..	19:44
truenix	if you have a recommendation i'll take it ;)	19:44
Segnale007	somebody	19:45
_Monkey	somebody is probably filing bugs with the arm core to maemo.org bugzilla?	19:45
Segnale007	told me	19:45
Segnale007	try to install becomeroot	19:45
Segnale007	and ok .. I don't know what is it	19:45
czr	bleh. can't I vote against monkey without registering for yet another account on yet another website	19:45
Segnale007	but .. now I try	19:45
jikolup	Segnale007 you can use the flasher tool to enable rd mode and do sudo gainroot from an xterminal	19:45
felipec	truenix: I think that's the best implementation, I haven't worked with that on the n800	19:45
jikolup	then reset the passwd to whatever	19:46
Segnale007	ok man	19:46
Segnale007	thanks	19:46
jikolup	np	19:46
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truenix	felipec, ok.. well once i got a service i want.. how do i get the possible object paths?	19:46
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felipec	truenix: p service.introspect ?	19:51
sp3000	czr: meh, I think we have a consensus	19:53
czr	hi sp3000. on what?	19:54
* czr just woke up		19:54
sp3000	on that which would be voted on	19:54
czr	what's the consensus then?	19:54
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czr	M should die? please tell it's so :-)	19:54
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sp3000	or, let's put it this way: seconds on "monkey should not talk when not addressed"? anyone opposed?	19:55
pupnik	monkey?	19:55
_Monkey	monkey is an extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions any stored keyword - such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	19:55
sp3000	I'll count that	19:55
czr	I don't oppose. spoken-to- would be very nice.	19:55
sp3000	but, uhm, I don't think anyone's spoken up in support of the spewage	19:56
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czr	why would they?	19:56
sp3000	just saying, vote is funny when there's no other side to it :)	19:56
czr	maybe should also vote on "whether bots should be left running when the person running them is never around"	19:56
sp3000	where a side is I think generally understood to be a set larger than one	19:57
czr	size can be zero too apparently, otherwise this would've been fixed ages ago :-)	19:57
sp3000	speaking of waking up, I should go to bed	19:57
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czr	night sp3000	19:57
sp3000	we kinda have no enforcement :)	19:58
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ZaMaLaRz	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:58
RbDnDkMx	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
CfFfUbKv	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
XnZpTzQs	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
VhNcGyFe	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
YgOsLxZk	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
IpOoIlTy	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
LhHbGjRu	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
OpQuSsMl	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
GxIrAwPf	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
AzKwScZv	100 packets send to '217.148.161.33' for 5 minutes.	19:59
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sp3000	...that I know of	19:59
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sp3000	speaking of which	19:59
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mgedmin	what the...?	19:59
sp3000	or, siinä maha missä ...	19:59
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*** ZaMaLaRz changes topic to "Owned"		20:00
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Palintheus	O.o	20:01
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sp3000	kids <3	20:01
*** mgedmin changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook \| http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/os2008beta_for_n800.html"		20:02
czr	sp3000, maha?	20:03
sp3000	...missä painitaan	20:03
czr	ah..	20:03
mgedmin	"too bubbly"?	20:03
czr	I rather liked how the bot used powers-of-two algo when building the nicks	20:03
czr	I'm guessing the nicks are zombie host ips	20:04
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* sp3000 doesn't see join/parts, cz triggers conference mode by default for this size channel		20:04
* Tak doesn't see join/part either		20:05
*** sp3000 changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook \| http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/os2008beta_for_n800.html \| milhouse, please make the bot not talk unless taked to, thanks."		20:05
*** sp3000 changes topic to "development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook \| http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/os2008beta_for_n800.html \| milhouse, please make the bot not talk unless talked to, thanks."		20:05
Tak	hey, leave me out of this!	20:05
sp3000	I was themted to fix it to taktaktaked to	20:05
sp3000	tempted even	20:05
czr	heh	20:05
czr	I've disabled join/parts as well. just looking at the nicks really	20:06
Tak	killer	20:06
czr	4 two char "parts" for each nick	20:06
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czr	each two char could encode one octet of IPv4	20:06
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czr	although I'm not sure how the upper/lower-casing was set. didn't seem significant	20:06
mgedmin	ease of reading, perhaps	20:07
czr	hmm. MoRpHeUz, do you know anything of this? :-)	20:08
czr	your nick fits the bill ;-)	20:08
czr	hmm. too bad the irclog does not records ips	20:09
* sp3000 -> z		20:09
czr	"*** ZaMaLaRz changes topic to "Owned""	20:09
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czr	channel takeover attempt I guess	20:10
pupnik	sorry about the monkey topic. that was my fault.	20:10
hugolp	hi, wich gtk version do I need to compile a program for the N800?	20:10
mgedmin	the one from the SDK, perhaps?	20:11
jeff1f	http://www.5min.com/Video/Eavesdropping-on-Bluetooth-Headsets-925061 Another 770 bluetooth hacker	20:11
czr	pupnik, is it protected now?	20:11
pupnik	i dunno	20:11
*** czr changes topic to "argh"		20:11
czr	guess not?	20:11
* mgedmin waits for czr to put it back		20:11
*** czr changes topic to ""development platform for Nokia Internet Tablets \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| http://www.gronmayer.com/it \| http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook \| http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/os2008beta_for_n800.html""		20:11
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czr	hmm. anyone know who has ops for this channel?	20:12
mgedmin	Toni?	20:12
czr	so it seems	20:12
czr	"last seen 3 weeks 1 day"	20:12
czr	bleh	20:12
czr	any secondaries?	20:13
pupnik	apparently not me!	20:13
pupnik	:)	20:13
mgedmin	/msg chanserv access #maemo list	20:13
mgedmin	I don't know any of those people	20:13
czr	ah, thanks mgedmin	20:14
czr	tsavola, ping	20:14
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tsavola	czr: yo	20:14
czr	tsavola, you can get chanops on request?	20:14
czr	at least i=tsavola@ext-ssh.movial.fi can	20:15
pupnik	wow fuchs has been into maemo since long time	20:15
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tsavola	czr: i don't think i can anymore :)	20:15
czr	tsavola, heh. do you know "Toni"?	20:15
tsavola	because of that weird nat/movial/x-gayness	20:15
tsavola	czr: yes	20:15
czr	tsavola, can you ask him to pop in on the channel and protect the topic against changes?	20:15
tsavola	czr: send mail to toni.willberg@movial.fi	20:15
czr	and fix your access so that we can at least ask you to do something when necessary	20:15
czr	ah	20:16
czr	Toni_, around?	20:16
mgedmin	hiding behind an underscore!	20:16
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czr	Toni_, when/if you are, please check the scrollback from here up.	20:16
czr	indeed	20:16
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pupnik	what's the problem, czr?	20:17
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mgedmin	vandal bots changing /topic	20:17
czr	yes	20:17
mgedmin	but what's the proposed solution?	20:17
mgedmin	it's not that hard to go to http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=topic and restore the last sane topic	20:18
pupnik	chuck norris	20:18
_Monkey	chuck norris is a supreme being	20:18
czr	heh pupnik	20:18
czr	mgedmin, unless you want to battle with bots	20:18
czr	mgedmin, these ones were nice, they left after changing	20:18
czr	or rather, this one	20:18
* czr shrugs		20:18
* mgedmin wonders if this happens often		20:19
czr	I don't know how these things are normally kept in place. most chans where I hang around have protected topics	20:19
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czr	doesn't seem to happen too often. 12 topic changes since Oct 02, including the ones above	20:21
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bunk	hi, is anyone here how could tell me where to find the sources for the BusyBox v1.00 in the RX-34_2008SE_1.2007.44-4 initfs?	20:32
trenka	busybox.net ?	20:33
bunk	trenka: well, sources including the configuration used	20:33
bunk	-whois trenka	20:33
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* czr notices		20:36
* czr still has to update the 'building external kernel modules' for OS2008 at some point		20:37
* mgedmin still has to install scratchbox on the new laptop		20:38
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czr	mgedmin, no vmware? :-)	20:38
TheFool2	anyone around? I have a really dumb question?	20:38
mgedmin	czr: no apt-gettable vmware in gutsy	20:38
czr	mgedmin, true. I kind of miss that. you could always install one yourself	20:39
elb	TheFool2: it's generally best to ask your question directly, not ask to ask	20:39
TheFool2	I am trying to figure out how to copy something from x to y using the file manager. The default is move.	20:39
mgedmin	I could always install scratchbox directly myself	20:39
mgedmin	I'm just lazy	20:39
czr	lazy is good mgedmin	20:39
TheFool2	Just wanted to make sure I was not asking it to an empty room	20:39
bunk	trenka: according to the GPL, you should offer them when you offer the initfs	20:39
czr	bunk, busybox is not GPL afaik	20:39
mgedmin	TheFool2: if you ask something in an empty room, you'll notice it after a while :-)	20:39
mgedmin	TheFool2: I think you can use the copy/paste metaphor on the tablets	20:40
bunk	czr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busybox#GPL_lawsuits	20:40
TheFool2	hehe, but with my luck 2 hours later someone will answer and I will miss it	20:40
trenka	bunk: sure, sure, we are working on it, honestly	20:40
czr	and whether configuration is part of the changed source has always been slightly debatable :-)	20:40
mgedmin	TheFool2: or maybe find a Copy to... item in the popup menu that you get when you tap and hold	20:40
elb	buzybox is GPL	20:40
czr	ah, ok. my bad	20:40
czr	uclibc is not?	20:40
* mgedmin never uses the file manager		20:40
czr	I seem to remember that something was LGPL (wouldn't fix this issue though, but still)	20:40
TheFool2	hehe, cool. Did not realize there was a popup menu	20:40
TheFool2	I don't usually but its nice to be able to copy songs from my phone and back. I was stuck "moving" them before. And that really sucked	20:41
mgedmin	okay, there's Edit -> Copy, but no Copy to..., so only my first suggestion was right	20:41
mgedmin	I think you can also drag-and-hold	20:42
bunk	trenka: OK, sorry, I just had problems parsing the "no answer" ;-)	20:42
mgedmin	to get a small popup menu, but don't quote me on that	20:42
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trenka	bunk: I'm not a 'legal guy', so just cannot provide anything myself, sorry :(	20:43
TheFool2	yep, that works as well :)	20:43
bunk	czr: regarding configuration: clause 3 of the GPL says "plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable"	20:43
bunk	trenka: OK, any time window when it might happen?	20:44
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bunk	trenka: (not meant to push or anything, just asking)	20:45
czr	bunk, and conf?	20:45
TheFool2	does anyone here use canola? And if not what is typically used fo accessing remote media?	20:45
trenka	cannot promise anything, as soon as possible. Hope week or two	20:45
bunk	trenka: OK	20:45
bedboi	anyone has found out how the maemo catalog works?	20:45
k-s	TheFool2: I develop canola	20:46
bedboi	it's not clear to me which applications go to "popular" selection	20:46
TheFool2	k-s: lol, cool	20:46
k-s	TheFool2: lots of other folks here do too	20:46
TheFool2	k-s: I am really looking forward to the next release	20:46
k-s	TheFool2: we're not much alive in the channel because we need to hurry to have 2.0 alpha1 in time	20:47
k-s	TheFool2: it's getting ready :-)	20:47
bedboi	k-s: you mean you have a specific date?	20:47
k-s	bedboi: sure	20:47
k-s	bedboi: but it's a surprise	20:47
bedboi	is it public?	20:47
bedboi	ah	20:47
k-s	it's soon	20:47
bedboi	damn	20:47
k-s	:-)	20:47
k-s	bedboi: we'll have some closed group of testers to begin	20:48
k-s	then public, yes	20:48
k-s	just like the other release	20:48
TheFool2	k-s: I am having some issues getting the current version to access media server via mt-daap and gmediaserver. It sees the files fine but won't play anything	20:48
bunk	czr: "scripts used to control compilation"; IANAL, but it's really hard to argue this would not include the configuration these scripts were using	20:48
k-s	we had some guys to test it and give feedback, then public	20:48
bedboi	ah o	20:48
bedboi	ok	20:48
TheFool2	k-s: Is this a known issue or a "I have bad luck" issue	20:48
k-s	TheFool2: ok, gmediasrever is not good	20:48
k-s	TheFool2: use fuppes	20:48
k-s	it's the best free upnp for linux	20:48
k-s	twonky and others are good too, but commercial	20:48
czr	bunk, I agree with you, don't take it wrong, but IANAL as well and sometimes the conf is just omitted even when claiming complicance (and yes, it does violate the spirit of GPL even if not the letter of it)	20:49
TheFool2	fuppes it is then, how about daap though?	20:49
k-s	brisa and coherence (from our friend "dev") are also good choices	20:49
czr	bunk, you might want to file a bug in bugzilla on this?	20:49
k-s	TheFool2: daap depends on the server	20:49
k-s	TheFool2: we use libdmapsharing (from source force)	20:50
czr	that way it will be an "visible" issue and might help people to avoid similar stuff in the future (not just with busybox)	20:50
k-s	TheFool2: it's from our developer andrunko	20:50
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k-s	TheFool2: I dunno, he is the best option to answer that	20:50
TheFool2	cool, so the problem here was the servers I was using not canola?	20:50
k-s	TheFool2: for upnp, yes	20:50
k-s	TheFool2: for dmap, no sure	20:50
k-s	TheFool2: our player workflow is like this:	20:51
k-s	get URL from some server and send to osso media player	20:51
k-s	we don't actually play anything	20:51
k-s	so if your UPnP server is exporting correct HTTP addresses, then osso media player will play	20:51
k-s	if you have gnomevfs-dmapsharing (canola depends on it and it should go automatically), then it will play dmap too	20:52
k-s	TheFool2: if you have some problems with osso media server, using our Mplayer plugin could help	20:52
k-s	TheFool2: this plugin is in our extra repo	20:52
TheFool2	Cool, then I have some fiddling around to do. Thanks for the help/info.	20:53
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TheFool2	I started to build a carputer from spare parts a while back, couldn't find a cheap screen though...then I got my n770 for $75...Canola makes the perfect interface for accessing the media in my car and at home :)	20:55
MoRpHeUz	TheFool2: for sure you'll need to try canola 2 on your 770 =)	20:55
TheFool2	MoRpHeUz: I definitely will, though I imagine it HAS to use more resources	20:56
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MoRpHeUz	TheFool2: yes, it may become a little bit slow on some screen due the lack of resources but you can expect no tearing effect ;-)	20:56
TheFool2	And I would want it running coupled with maemo-mapper... which is a resource hog in and of itself (for good reason)	20:56
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TheFool2	MoRpHeUz: As long as the scrolling is responsive I am good.	20:58
MoRpHeUz	TheFool2: yeah...the touchscreen on 770 is not so responsive...	20:59
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TheFool2	bah, I will try it out anyway. Sorta expected that with the 770 not being mentioned in regards to 2.0...that and it looks so much cooler...such beautiful transitions...	21:00
k-s	yes, the touchscreen is not so sensitive	21:00
k-s	TheFool2: etrunko published a video of it running	21:00
k-s	TheFool2: it suffers a bit with the thumbnail view	21:01
k-s	of images	21:01
k-s	but it's very, very heavy :-P	21:01
k-s	other screens are just fine	21:01
TheFool2	on the 770? do you have a link, or should I google?	21:01
k-s	etrunko: ...	21:01
TheFool2	http://etrunko.blogspot.com/2007/11/canola-20-running-on-nokia-770.html first link from googling :)	21:02
k-s	:-)	21:02
etrunko	that one	21:02
MoRpHeUz	hehe	21:03
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TheFool2	what was that at the end? lol	21:04
TheFool2	MAAAEmmo	21:04
MoRpHeUz	TheFool2: h4x0r theme =P	21:04
MoRpHeUz	haha	21:04
trenka	770 is cool	21:04
TheFool2	you have no clue how much I am loving it.	21:04
MoRpHeUz	TheFool2: just to show how it would change between themes...	21:05
TheFool2	I would never shell out $400+ for the 810 but $75 for a 770 in a hearbeat	21:05
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TheFool2	trenka: well I might be more willing to shell out $400+ if I had $400+...	21:06
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trenka	TheFool2: spare $400+ :)	21:09
TheFool2	well no one has a spare $400+...even when my bank account were in the thousands I never consider a cent of it "spare"	21:10
TheFool2	s/were/was	21:10
hugolp	anyone knows if the mysql libraries could run on the n800?	21:10
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hugolp	or some kind of lite mysql lib?	21:11
trenka	well, it depends of mentality :) Even when my bank account runs to 0, I have some spare ;)	21:11
czr	trenka, dipping into credit cards is bad :-)	21:12
czr	but that's what they're for I guess ;-)	21:12
* johnnynokia hugs 810		21:13
TheFool2	See I am just starting grad school and still have no depts, but I have $4.36 in my bank account right now	21:13
TheFool2	Thats what happens when you don't work for almost a year...	21:13
trenka	TheFool2: do not worry, for me you can be very good guy independent of our bank account ;)	21:14
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acydlord	lol, i have .96 in my bank account	21:18
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MoRpHeUz	hugolp: libmysqlclient runs on n800...	21:19
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hugolp	MoRpHeUz: its not in the repositories right?	21:20
MoRpHeUz	hugolp: take a look at gmyth repository somewhere on this page: http://gmyth.sf.net	21:20
hugolp	MoRpHeUz: thanks	21:20
MoRpHeUz	hugolp: =)	21:20
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TheFool2	Monday I get to try and get my 770 working on the universities wifi...stuped 802.1x WEP encrypted, the server provides the key after we authenticate, and they use an invalid certificate...a convoluted mess. It's going to be fun :)	21:21
TheFool2	s/stuped/stupid	21:21
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* TheFool2 wonders if fuppes will ever finish compiling...		21:23
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kala	my web browser is crashing on the Outlook Web Access 2003 website. Just after acknowledging that the certificate is signed by not trusted authority and before displaying any pages.	21:27
kala	anyone having the same issues?	21:27
TheFool2	do you have a url I can test against?	21:27
kala	owa.elion.ee	21:28
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TheFool2	nope, works perfect here	21:29
kala	ok	21:29
TheFool2	what browser/OS are you using?	21:29
kala	too bad, cannot blame on the Microsoft then	21:29
kala	OS2007 Hackers Edition	21:30
kala	tablet-browser-ui, version 0.2.9-1, I think	21:30
kala	I'm running on the 770	21:30
TheFool2	hmm...I have the EXACT same setup...	21:31
kala	:)	21:31
TheFool2	not sure about the ver for the browser, is there a quick way to look it up?	21:32
TheFool2	maybe a quick update will solve your woes	21:32
kala	I did dpkg -l	21:32
kala	I think I upgraded few weeks ago and then the problem started	21:32
TheFool2	hehe ouch	21:32
TheFool2	hmm	21:33
kala	strange, I'm able to look at ucowa.uc.edu without any crashes	21:34
TheFool2	hmm I am running .2.10	21:35
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TheFool2	so glad I had grep...	21:35
TheFool2	but this is repeatable on that specific site?	21:36
TheFool2	and not crashing on the other one is repeatable?	21:36
hugolp	MoRpHeUz: there I only see chinnok repositories and I would like to get mysql for 2007 not for 2008	21:36
kala	TheFool2: seems to be.	21:36
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MoRpHeUz	hugolp: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=177106&package_id=225202	21:38
MoRpHeUz	(2007-03-19 11:06)	21:38
hugolp	MoRpHeUz: cool	21:39
TheFool2	kala: the source of the sites appears to be identical in every meaningful way, so it should have nothing to do with the site itself.	21:39
MoRpHeUz	=)	21:39
TheFool2	kala: this is most likely a retarted suggestion but have you tried clearing your cache/cookies/etc maybe there is something in their specific to that site the browser is choking on	21:40
kala	uh	21:40
kala	good suggestion	21:40
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ds3	anyone tried using those SIS based USB VGA dongles on a N[78][710]0?	21:43
kala	TheFool2: no, still crashing	21:44
TheFool2	kala: grr, I don't know what to tell you	21:44
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TheFool2	kala: "works here" is not much comfort	21:45
vandenoever	what's the best reason (apart from keyboard) to choose n810 over n800?	21:45
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vandenoever	storage capacity, speed, something else?	21:45
hexa	vandenoever, gps ?	21:45
TheFool2	vandenoever: gps	21:45
vandenoever	hexa: oh, its not in n800?	21:45
TheFool2	vandenoever: oh no	21:46
hexa	vandenoever, nope	21:46
vandenoever	that's a good reason, yeah	21:46
vandenoever	and storage difference?	21:46
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hexa	vandenoever, you can still have a bluetooth one still	21:46
vandenoever	n800 can do 4gb right?	21:46
TheFool2	vandenoever: though I am still waiting for the mystical $25 GPS unit on ebay...	21:46
hexa	vandenoever, it can do sdhc 2x16 gig max right now I think	21:46
vandenoever	i want to use it mostly at home, so gps is not all that important	21:46
vandenoever	hexa: n800 too?	21:46
hexa	vandenoever, I was talking about the n800	21:46
hexa	not sure if n810 has 2 sd slots.. or just one	21:47
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vandenoever	hexa: cool, that would make an awesome replacement for my cd player then	21:47
czr	hexa, just one	21:47
hugolp	hexa the n810 has just one slot	21:47
vandenoever	i'm sure it does ogg, right?	21:47
hexa	vandenoever, yep	21:47
TheFool2	bah get the 800 then	21:47
hexa	vandenoever, n800 is cheaper.. too	21:47
* TheFool2 did not just say that		21:47
vandenoever	excellent, and i've even seen people put kde on it :-)	21:47
czr	vandenoever, not out of the box, but with community support/sw.	21:47
vandenoever	hexa: yeah 190 euros cheaper on amazon	21:48
hugolp	vandenoever: kde on n800?	21:48
TheFool2	hugolp: yea, thats a scary thought for me as well	21:48
vandenoever	http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/kde-on-nokia-n800-tablet.html	21:48
vandenoever	no kde4 though :-)	21:48
hexa	img scray indeed	21:48
hexa	er.. omg	21:48
vandenoever	what's scary about it?	21:49
TheFool2	! he has it running on the 770 as well	21:49
hexa	vandenoever, some could argue that kde is a big bloated win manager.. really the worst thing you could put on an embeeded device.. but it's an opinion :)	21:49
TheFool2	KDE is a little...big...for a tablet	21:50
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khertan	Hi	21:50
TheFool2	khertan: aloha	21:50
hexa	vandenoever, the default win manager works really well..	21:50
hugolp	vandenoever: nice. was it too slow and how did it do with the battery?	21:50
khertan	someone know when the hildon-home/hildon-desktop ll be available in chinook ?	21:50
vandenoever	hexa: it' was something for the wow department, i'm sure maemo is great for n800	21:50
vandenoever	i'm not religious about window managers or desktop as long as it's free software	21:51
hexa	vandenoever, hehe :) I would be funny to see something like compiz on the n800 tought.. just for the wow of it .. no opengl 3d I guess...	21:51
vandenoever	but plasma on n800 could go towards fancy iphone-like effects	21:51
vandenoever	how is 3d on n800?	21:52
hexa	s/I/It...	21:52
hexa	vandenoever, no idea... :(	21:52
vandenoever	and what does one pay for say, 4gb on it?	21:52
hexa	vandenoever, I did play the original doom :)	21:52
vandenoever	hexa: ah, that runs on old ipod too	21:52
vandenoever	must suck with the ipod control though!	21:52
hexa	vandenoever, humm I bougt a 8gig for like 70$ so I guess somethin like 30-40$	21:53
vandenoever	how do you shoot?	21:53
vandenoever	hexa: oh, that's fine	21:53
TheFool2	vandenoever: I would guess select would shoot	21:53
hexa	vandenoever, button on the left	21:53
vandenoever	hexa: ok, so not tapping your screen to bits	21:53
hexa	bad think is changin direction.. on the touch screen	21:53
TheFool2	that is my main beef with the 770...stupid mmc...	21:53
hexa	vandenoever, hehehe at least...	21:53
TheFool2	unrealted question, how do I find out what character set I am using? I know I am using something funky for some reason... linux not maemo but...	21:55
vandenoever	so how's voip with webcam on the n800? any good?	21:56
hexa	vandenoever, tested with gtalk / jabber works well :)	21:56
hexa	wan't able to test with sip yet	21:57
vandenoever	hexa: which is the default software?	21:57
vandenoever	jabber?	21:57
_Monkey	jabber is much nicer. ;)	21:57
hexa	the camera is not the best quality but not so bad	21:57
vandenoever	it can rotate, right?	21:57
hexa	vandenoever, yeah! :) that's nice,, one thing you don't have on the n810 too	21:57
VRe	Just too many repositories aaagggh.. I can understand commerial software not being in garage or extras but all these others should end up in extras..	21:57
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vandenoever	hexa: oh, that's a step back	21:58
czr	VRe, jsut tells you how convenient it is to upload stuff to extras ;-)	21:58
VRe	czr: Yeah, sucks	21:58
hexa	vandenoever, they only other thing I find bad about it is that it's localted to the left... so you have to kinda hold the n800 a bit to your right .. to be at the center.. but it's minor	21:58
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TheFool2	on the right would be more natural for right handed people...	21:59
hexa	TheFool2, yeah.. or on top centred	21:59
VRe	if one of these 15 repositories is hacked.. how many zombie devices we would end up with	21:59
TheFool2	hexa: yea well...	21:59
hexa	hehe detail anyway :)	21:59
TheFool2	:)	22:00
TheFool2	VRe: ah but how long before someone notices, the repo is patched and your next update fixes it.	22:00
kala	VRe: N770x800x810 is not too useful anyway, limited bandwidth, limited transactions, not always online :P	22:00
TheFool2	VRe: yea I know, one repo would still be nicer	22:01
TheFool2	VRe: when I take the red pill I want to dive all the way down that rabit hole	22:01
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czr	VRe, depends on how many people use that specific repo, doesn't it? :-)	22:01
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TheFool2	before I installed anything I added like 20 repos, so I actually have had no problems...It never ceases to amaze me that there was a time when I complained about using a repo instead of going to a website and downloading/installing something manually.	22:03
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hexa	TheFool2, should be a list of all these repos somewhere at least	22:04
hexa	TheFool2, like a master .. has everything sources.list	22:04
acydlord	there kind of is	22:05
acydlord	http://gronmayer.com/n800/repos/	22:05
VRe	czr: yeah, but this way the risk is always creater	22:05
* czr shrugs		22:06
hexa	acydlord, humm interesting ! thx :)	22:06
acydlord	np	22:06
VRe	Maybe maemo is not that main line yet, that anybody would be curious.. but if somebody would do it just for fun the house of cards would fly	22:06
czr	I've yet to do a proper risk analyses on the various processes involved in installing sw by end-users so can't really say whether having multiple repos really makes a difference :-)	22:06
acydlord	VRe, if the IT was a windows based device I would agree with you	22:06
acydlord	but as it is linux, and the majority of users are advanced linux users, we tend to watch what we install	22:07
acydlord	not to mention you can use gpg keys to verify repos	22:07
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VRe	yeah, but it still binary.. and you trust the source. But if the source is hacked and the package is with a worm you will never know	22:07
VRe	acydlord: yeah, but using application manager that is totally skipped	22:08
acydlord	nah, the package manager still checks thegpg keys	22:08
VRe	no authentication. none what so ever	22:08
VRe	atleast last time I run apt from commandline it was warning me of these unknown keys	22:08
VRe	application manager just skips that	22:09
acydlord	and also, a repo based install method is much more secure than downloading the executables from a website	22:09
acydlord	just look at the debaucle wordpress had last year	22:10
VRe	anyways, maemo is so small so I think security risk is quite small. But quality risk is bigger, there has been incompatible gpe versions, ogg-support etc	22:10
TheFool2	acydlord: somehow I missed that one, what happened?	22:10
acydlord	and also, the IT market share is small, and the machines arent powerful enough to be usefull zombies, so that would be a massive waste of time	22:10
acydlord	TheFool2, someone got access to their ftp server and embedded some malicious code in to the 2.2 build of wp	22:11
VRe	acydlord: tell me something which is not obvious	22:11
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acydlord	just saying someone who has the knowhow to bother to zombify it devices also knows the time and effort are not worth it	22:12
VRe	But say there would be competitor who would like to ruin the reputation of maemo and nokia.. one nice way would be some security issues	22:12
TheFool2	"Woohoo I have a bot net of devices that are off or not connected to the internet most of the day. And theyn have almost no memeory or computational power. I am the uber h4ax0rs	22:12
glass_	vre: security issues such as a broken tiff library that would let any website root your device?	22:12
glass_	vre: public doesn't care about such.. proven too many times	22:13
acydlord	i don't know why they would do that, given maemo is opensource and they could just get the source from maemo to improve their own device	22:13
czr	TheFool2, you don't need a lot of cpu/mem to be an effective zombie	22:13
czr	TheFool2, you only need network access/bandwidth	22:13
VRe	and there is more than zombies	22:13
VRe	glass_: yeah x86 overflow on arm..?	22:14
glass_	vre: you aware that one of the iphone jailbreaks is what i exactly described	22:14
acydlord	the iphone jailbreak is based on a broken tiff library	22:14
hexa	iphone/itouch is x86?	22:14
glass_	and the same bug was on psp too	22:14
TheFool2	was pretty sure it was arm...	22:15
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glass_	it's arm..	22:15
VRe	glass_: I am, but those are always cpu & enviroment spesific.	22:15
VRe	happy hunting with your website..	22:15
VRe	maybe if you post it on maemo list you get hits from those who read their mail with the device	22:15
VRe	.. mean they use claws mail.. which means they have external repository..	22:16
glass_	my point was about that it's a pretty crappy way to ruin reputation	22:16
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VRe	Hey, if I would have a real masterplan. Would I tell it to you?	22:16
VRe	bad press is always bad	22:16
hexa	if you really wanted to ruin it's reputation juste start the rumor that they would switch the device to windows ce ,, jk :)	22:17
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TheFool2	glass_: the main difference being that people WANT to hack the iphone wheras people want to do hacking with the n series...but yea no one would care	22:17
VRe	except those who got hacked :=	22:17
VRe	What _you_ would think?	22:17
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TheFool2	I would get a good laugh that someone wasted THAT much time, and restore from backups	22:18
acydlord	actually most of the development and porting done for the IT would be considered hacking	22:18
VRe	anyways, for many reasons extras sucks and so does these separate repos	22:18
VRe	Where you have your backup?	22:18
VRe	On memory card?	22:18
czr	hacking = applying magic glue around some crappy piece of code until it doesn't fall on the floor so often :-)	22:18
glass_	thefool: well, with iphone getting hacked could be a bit more serious. as in racking up phone bills to premium numbers..	22:18
acydlord	i have my backup on an sd card, and on one of my servers	22:18
TheFool2	what would be the point of that? no backup is on my main server	22:19
VRe	acydlord: and how many you think even backups?	22:19
TheFool2	its actually versioned...	22:19
acydlord	probably 90% or more of us back up regularly	22:19
acydlord	not to mention even if you don't have backups it takes no time at all to restore	22:19
VRe	well, if this is even near early majority. You are not majority.	22:20
VRe	and from those who backup most have the copy only on the card	22:20
acydlord	VRe, i take it you dont like to use linux distros with package managers?	22:20
TheFool2	reflash: 5 minutes, reinstalling 20 apps: 1 hour, the look on the hackers face when he realizes his days locked in his room formulating his evil plan constituted only a minor annoyance: priceless	22:21
VRe	acydlord: Yeah.. of course I have them... they suck. Like debian with its nice *debian.org repositories which are preinstalled	22:21
* TheFool2 shakes his head in bewilderment		22:21
acydlord	VRe, are you by any chance a skript kiddie?	22:22
VRe	I would rather download every binary separately.. - what you think?	22:22
acydlord	because thats how you are coming off to me	22:22
VRe	Not a kiddie anymore	22:22
acydlord	i would rather not	22:22
acydlord	more chance getting a comprimised package downloading from a website	22:22
acydlord	also more time consuming	22:22
TheFool2	VRe: no way in hell, much more of a risk that way, and much more tedious	22:22
acydlord	not to mention i have live redundant backups	22:23
VRe	acydlord: So I think you say we should have separate repository for every program?	22:23
acydlord	i dont think we should have a seperate repo for every program	22:23
VRe	Or one centralized like I would like it to be	22:23
VRe	Well, now it going that way	22:23
TheFool2	Stable, Unstable, Testing, Dev. Thats how I would love it.	22:23
acydlord	well the way you are saying it in your method would translate to, every software available on the internet should be available from one website, and one website only	22:24
TheFool2	mainly because it would help clear up library conflicts	22:24
czr	acydlord, it is. the global dns ;-)	22:24
VRe	and that is (1) security risk (minor), (2) quality risk ad (3) annoying as hell	22:24
acydlord	i mean i would love to see them wrangled in to the maemo repo for stable, garage.maemo for betas, and a dev repo	22:24
czr	I could live with single repo but different sections or subdirs	22:25
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czr	would make mirroring easier	22:25
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acydlord	in all honesty maemo could test the program, and then add it to their repo	22:26
TheFool2	bloody hell after all this time I can't get a working version of fuppes... latest source release and svn checkout are both broken	22:27
acydlord	also, does anyone else have major problems with the default email client and gmail imap?	22:28
TheFool2	have not tried yet, what issue are you having?	22:28
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acydlord	it wont fetch anything more than the header	22:28
acydlord	when i try to fetch mail it just sits there "working" often it will lock up	22:29
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acydlord	and i'm still dissapointed that the osso-clock doesnt support the arizona timezone	22:29
TheFool2	LOL that is just sad, how do you "skip" a timezone	22:32
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acydlord	it completely messes up the time zones for those of us living in az	22:34
acydlord	so my world clock is useless	22:35
acydlord	it's in the tzdata, so there is no reason it shouldnt be in the osso-clock	22:35
TheFool2	BAH, must find a way to get a upnp or daap server up...	22:37
acydlord	ubuntu media center works pretty well if you've got a spare box lying around	22:39
acydlord	i have a classic xbox modded running as a upnp server	22:40
Sho_	I'm told http://mediatomb.cc/ works reasonably well	22:40
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dev	acydlord: you have elisa running on that?	22:43
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acydlord	nopers	22:43
acydlord	just xbmc	22:44
dev	ah, ok, as you said "ubuntu media center"	22:44
dev	TheFool2: for which OS?	22:44
TheFool2	gentoo	22:45
_Monkey	i heard gentoo was not good for anything, imho. It wasted many hours of lle2's life for no good reason.	22:45
TheFool2	lol...	22:45
TheFool2	is ubuntu media center somehow ubuntu specific or can I compile it?	22:46
dev	I know that some people have Coherence on gentoo	22:46
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dev	umc is based on elisa, elisa.fluendo.com, written in Python	22:46
_\|Nix\|_	Argh! There's this stuff in extras that depends on libgdbm-dev, but there's no libgdbm-dev in extras ...	22:47
hugolp	apt-get upgrade says that packet module-init-tools is being kept back, is this normal?	22:47
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acydlord	i didnt run ubuntu media center for long, proc fan in the machine died	22:49
e-squizo	Hi folks, maybe someone can help me with my scratchbox installatioin. I had an installation on Debian, which I suspected of being botched, so I removed all scratchbox* packages, and then rm -rf /scratchbox	22:49
e-squizo	I then reinstalled it as per http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.1/INSTALL.txt	22:49
e-squizo	using the script at http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.1/maemo-sdk-install_3.1.sh	22:50
e-squizo	as a result, I have scratchbox again, but: 1) no targets, and 2) no rootstraps in /scratchbox/packages	22:51
e-squizo	(i invoked the script with the -d option, since this is a Debian system)	22:51
e-squizo	any ideas what may have gone wrong?	22:51
maddler	did anyone tried Gizmo's video calls?	22:51
acydlord	haven't tried it yet	22:52
acydlord	e-squizo, did you install the maemo sdk as well as scratchbox per those instructions?	22:53
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e-squizo	acydlord: those instructions tell me that all I have to do is run the script	22:54
e-squizo	or so I read them...	22:55
acydlord	yeah, you just have to run the scratchbox script, and then another script for the maemo sdk	22:55
acydlord	after you get scratchbox installed and add a user for it	22:55
e-squizo	acydlord: OOOK!\	22:56
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e-squizo	stupid me! the layout of the instructions led me to think that these were oart of the instructions for manual installation	22:57
e-squizo	sorry!	22:57
acydlord	tis ok, i had to read through it twice myself	22:58
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e-squizo	acydlord: must I run the second script as root, too? the instructions don't say, and the script doesn't complain!	23:01
acydlord	i ran it as my normal user	23:02
e-squizo	acydlord: great	23:02
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kupesoft	anyone get wireless tools working on os2008/n800	23:06
kupesoft	iwconfig~	23:08
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bstock	esides the initial cost, is there any reason NOT to switch to the n810? all the apps and stuff from the 770 will run right?	23:12
bstock	mainly, openvpn, xournal, and maemo mapper with support for dun-through-cellphone-via-bluetooth and bluetooth gps device	23:12
acydlord	well the n810 has built in gps	23:13
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bstock	oh yeah that's right	23:13
bstock	and i assume dun-via-cellphone-via-bt should work fine, that's what its designed for	23:14
acydlord	yeah, that works fine	23:14
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bstock	but i need to make sure openvpn and xournal will work (which if i've kept up-to-date properly, everything should work easily with a quick recomplie)	23:14
TheFool2	the only thing I can think of is if you realllly like FM radio...	23:14
bstock	no that don't matter	23:14
bstock	i have a car..	23:15
bstock	;p	23:15
TheFool2	there is also only 1 SD card slot	23:15
bstock	although i never listen to the radio anymore..	23:15
TheFool2	does anyone?	23:15
acydlord	i thought it still had 2 slots	23:15
bstock	yeah but the 770 only had 1 card slot anyway	23:15
TheFool2	hmm...	23:15
bstock	and it was some crazy memory	23:15
* TheFool2 double checking		23:15
bstock	no i believe 810 is only 1 memory slot, but has 2gb built-in	23:16
Palintheus	2G built in and a SD slot	23:16
acydlord	i wish it would support the 32gb SD card lol	23:16
bstock	damn didn't know they had cards that big, 8gb was the biggest i knew of	23:16
* TheFool2 looks down in shame at his 2gb mmc		23:17
acydlord	i only have 2 1gb cards in my n800	23:17
bstock	does everything from the n800 run fine on the n810, or is there special stuff you have to do?	23:17
acydlord	and it's like $400 for the 32gb	23:17
acydlord	there are still a lot of programs that need to be proted from os2007 to 2008	23:18
bstock	hmm that sucks... is this gonna happen on every new device they release? so far it has	23:18
TheFool2	but the fact is they will be ported, and all the new versions will not work on 2006...and soon enough 2008...	23:18
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bstock	hmm maybe i'll try the new 2007HE for the 770.. hopefully it's more stable then the last time i tried HE, couldn't get xournal or maemo mapper to run on it	23:20
TheFool2	bstock: been using it since I got my 770, I have yet to have it crash	23:22
bstock	how long ago was that	23:22
TheFool2	4 days...	23:22
TheFool2	lol	23:23
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bstock	hehe alright then	23:24
pupnik	monkey?	23:25
_Monkey	somebody said monkey was an extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions any stored keyword - such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	23:25
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kulve	well, at least it knows something :)	23:26
khertan	_Monkey are Monkey is very stupid : VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	23:27
_Monkey	OK, khertan.	23:27
khertan	lol	23:27
acydlord	a modifier would be nice	23:27
khertan	_Monkey is somebody said monkey was an extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions any stored keyword - such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	23:28
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TheFool2	ok tried ushare/gmediastreamer/fuppes/daap/mt-daap/mediatomb out of all of those mediatomb is the only one that compiles and can be accessed by canola...	23:28
TheFool2	fuppes wont compile and the rest choke on my charset	23:28
k-s	TheFool2: fuppes won't compile?	23:29
k-s	strange	23:29
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TheFool2	grr ignore that, it compiled it was just missing some object at runtime	23:31
TheFool2	don't know why I said that	23:31
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TheFool2	k-s: but yea I tried the latest checkout from their svn and the source tarball	23:31
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TheFool2	hmm is there anyway to make canola connect to a upnp not on it's network?	23:32
k-s	TheFool2: no, it's not allowed by upnp proto	23:33
k-s	TheFool2: you need to be in a network with multicast support	23:33
k-s	TheFool2: upnp find it's peers using multicast	23:33
TheFool2	k-s: ok	23:33
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TheFool2	k-s: I knew it was against dmap protocol as well but there was some nonsense you could do to make it look like it was in the same network. This was not using a normal computer though	23:35
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k-s	TheFool2: you can try to hack your own tool to proxy multicast	23:35
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k-s	hackish, but...	23:35
k-s	:-)	23:35
TheFool2	I might do that. In truth I have no need to access it outside of the network but...	23:36
TheFool2	I have a operating server with a copy of all of my music in almost every network I go...thats pretty sad now that I think about it	23:37
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TheFool2	especially since I can access it all from a web interface...ooh have to see how badly the n770 shockes on my flash player :)	23:38
TheFool2	s/shockes/chokes	23:38
hugolp	is there a way to make the scratchbox gcc accept // as comentaries?	23:39
hugolp	Im running crazy changing my program	23:39
elb	that rules that it doesn't	23:40
elb	more C compilers need to refuse that particular abomination	23:40
halley	Meh.	23:40
TheFool2	WHY?	23:40
hugolp	elb: abomination... XD	23:41
TheFool2	I love my //'s :(	23:41
hugolp	oh, I see, I was using -ansi	23:41
hugolp	copied from the tuto page	23:41
elb	yeah, -ansi means C89, which has no // comments	23:41
TheFool2	seriously though, why is // bad?	23:41
elb	it's mostly just ugly	23:41
elb	and, for some reason, it encourages horrendous commenting style	23:42
elb	I don't understand why that is, really, but most people who use it shouldn't be allowed near a comment EVER	23:42
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elb	mostly, I don't like it because it has line-oriented semantics, which virtually nothing else in C uses	23:43
halley	I think we should ban blue paint, because everyone who uses it in their living rooms finds out later that it ruins the resale value of the home.	23:43
elb	(preprocessor directives being the other major exception, and handled in the same place)	23:43
halley	Yeah, except the preprocessor.	23:43
elb	halley: your analogy is poor	23:44
elb	that was an aside, anyway	23:44
halley	You're suggesting getting rid of something because of YOUR tastes.	23:44
elb	amen	23:44
* halley shrugs.		23:44
halley	I wonder what someone like Kernighan thinks of it.	23:45
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elb	good question	23:46
elb	I'd hope he sees it as a filthy C++ abomination ;-)	23:46
halley	I've not heard that he's particularly dour on C++ at all.	23:47
elb	I've never seen anything he's said about C++	23:48
halley	"Sometimes I do write C++ instead of C. C++ I think is basically too big a language, although there's a reason for almost everything that's in it." --Kernighan	23:48
penguinbait	Monkey	23:50
_Monkey	rumour has it Monkey is an extremely annoying bot that automatically remembers the second part of any phrase spoken in this channel that contains clauses like "is" or "are", then spits out the second part of the sentence whenever anyone in the channel mentions any stored keyword - such as the word "monkey". VOTE TO STOP THIS HERE: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12489	23:50
elb	that's about how I feel about C++	23:50
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elb	its primary fault is that it's too big -- and the primary reason for that is interactions among the parts it has	23:50
*** penguinbait is now known as MonkeyLover		23:50
elb	"The Design and Evolution of the C++ Programming Language" makes this very clear, and is a very good read	23:50
elb	(interesting, it is intended to be positive on C++)	23:51
MonkeyLover	interesting might be a strong term	23:52
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halley	His followup to the previous statement dovetails with your point.	23:52
halley	"When I write a C program of any size, I probably will wind-up using 75, 80, 90% of the language features. In other words, most of the language is useful in almost any kind of program. By contrast, if I write in C++ I probably don't use even 10% of the language, and in fact the other 90% I don't think I understand." --K	23:52
elb	yeah	23:52
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elb	the problem with that other 90% is that there be dragons there	23:52
TheFool2	thats why we have subsets...	23:52
bstock	does n810 support full size SD, or just micro and mini?	23:52
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elb	and they can reach into your 10% in ways you did not predict	23:52
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halley	bstock, just mini; use adapter for micro	23:53
elb	(also well described in "Design and Evolution")	23:53
Palintheus	bstock: mini and micro with adapter I think, not full size	23:53
halley	bstock, one slot only	23:53
bstock	hmm alright, i'll have to make sure to get one with an adapter then	23:54
elb	most micro cards seem to come with adapters	23:54
elb	as do most minis	23:54
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halley	I saw a pack that had a micro chip, a mini-adapter, a fullsize-adapter, and a usbkey-adapter.	23:54
elb	that might be taking it a bit far ;-)	23:55
MonkeyLover	what sthe deal on the n810, it says up to 2GB internal memory, does it have 2GB or only 256 flash? Can I put in a 2GB card and a 8GB card	23:56
cgardner	Is there anything special I need to do to use the repository.maemo.org repository? Aparently, I'm not authorized to get Packages.gz	23:56
halley	MonkeyLover, it has a 2GB flash that is permanently inside the case; it acts JUST LIKE an external drive but you can't remove it. This is in addition to the OS space itself.	23:56
Palintheus	it ahs 2GB built in and fixed, only one slot to add to it	23:57
Palintheus	*has	23:57
MonkeyLover	Is this 2GB flash?	23:57
halley	They preload the MAP DATA and some sample VIDEOS on it, but you can delete that.	23:57
MonkeyLover	or there is sep flash of 256	23:57
Palintheus	just like a SD card, but you can't remove it	23:57
MonkeyLover	can you boot from it?	23:57
MonkeyLover	this is the question?	23:57
halley	Not that I've seen. It's secondary space.	23:57
MonkeyLover	SD is also secondary space, but I can boot from it	23:58
halley	Maybe you can; I haven't tried.	23:58
MonkeyLover	are you booting from flash now?	23:58
halley	I boot from the OS space.	23:58
MonkeyLover	or SD	23:58
MonkeyLover	so from flash	23:59
halley	But not from the 2GB which I already said is in addition to the OS flash space.	23:59
MonkeyLover	right	23:59
MonkeyLover	DDR RAM 128MB	23:59
MonkeyLover	Flash 256MB	23:59
halley	You see the extra 2GB as /media/mmc2	23:59
MonkeyLover	Up to 2GB internal memory	23:59

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