IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-02-17

com1ok, who here can prove that i amongston my internet tablet , and not a pc00:01
com1other than my bad spelling00:01
com1and slow typing00:02
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keesjyou want to prove that the n800 is not a (window) pc?00:08
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Stregwhere should i post bugs about GPEcalendar. i crashes after a few seconds with .ics webcal from scheduleworld. (it downloads the calendar enries though)00:09
bhimacom1: I could give you a URL to a web site that popped up a new window. THe old window would run a bit of javascript that would keep updating me with the fact that you were still there.00:11
bhimacom1: the new window would execute some terrible abomination of HTML that would crash Opera.00:11
bhimaIf the javascript died and stopped communicating, your'e on an N800. :)00:12
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ljpif you love it so much, why not marry it?00:17
maddlerStreg: try mailing devs00:17
Stregmaddler: probably the easiest way00:18
* bhima wimpers. I want python on my N800.00:19
maddlerStreg: yep00:19
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bhimaHas anybody seen an app to let you push URLs from your desktop/laptop to a maemo device? ie: I see a URL and I want to load it up on my n800.00:21 ?00:21
StregIM chat?00:21
Veggenbhima: it's really not that difficult. you just need to treat it as a debian system, look at what the package system tells you (view the log in app installer), and resolve the conflicts.00:22
[mbm]dsniff? :)00:22
maddlerssh to a txt00:22
VeggenI can't remember, but it wasn't that difficult to get python2.5 on my N800.00:22
Takif you're going to ssh, you could launch a browser window directly00:22
bhimaveggen: I'm not really familiar with Debian; last system I used was SuSE. The log doesn't have anything but a complaint that a public key couldn't be verified.00:23
Veggenoh. sure?00:24
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bhimaI just looked right now...00:24
bhimaIt won't install the runtime because libglade, libsdl and libgdbm3 are missing.00:25
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bhimaI'm thinking of using dund over bluetooth to accept URL requests.00:25
bhimaAnd then have a little window on my laptop that would let me drag URLs.00:26
Veggenbhima: libgdbm3 in bora/free00:26
VeggenI have no libglade or libsdl.00:26
Veggen(but python2.5)00:26
bhimaI have bora-extras dist: bora; components: free non-free00:27
bhimaBut I don't see libgdbm3.00:28
Veggenbut, not extras.00:29
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bhimaOk, added, updated. Still not listed :(00:30
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bhimaoh, there we go. It doesn't list those as packages, but it knows they're there.00:31
* bhima watches Python download and gets ready to offer profuse thanks...00:32
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bhimaThank you! python and pygame are there.00:34
Veggenyou're welcome :)00:34
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bhimaAm I the only one that thinks the N800 looks much more like a normal Nokia device?00:36
bhimaNokia seems to like lots of chrome and shiny things. THe 770 had none, essentially.00:36
bhimaPersonally, I loved the design of it. It didn't scream "shiny!" and didn't really have any things that were there just for adornment.00:37
bhimaThe N800 has lots of chrome, and lots of holes all around the front.00:37
StregI think it was a concious decision from nokia. 770 seemed like a dev platform, n800 is more like a nokia branded product.00:37
bhimaI got the feeling that the 770 was a skunkworks project. Perhaps they didn't go through many of Nokia's normal processes.00:38
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TakI prefer the layout of the top buttons on the 770, and the front buttons on the n80000:38
bhimaThe N800 went to their normal design team, who said "you can't identify it as an N series device at 500 yards. More chrome!"00:38
TakI could go either way on the chorme00:38
Takapparently I can go either way on the speeling as well00:39
bhimaWhat about spelling? Any opinions on that?00:39
bhimaI _hate_ the look and feel of the buttons on the top of the n800. power switch seems hard to press too. However, I don't think that I've had a single time when I didn't hit the button I intended to hit on the n800.00:40
TakI only have opinions about speeling and scrooling00:40
Takagreed @ hate00:40
bhimaI was extremely unhappy with the choice of RS-MMC on the 770 - it's not like you can even use a small nifty connector on your PCB. You save so little space with it, yet you lose so much.00:41
bhimaDual SD slots make me very happy; having to use tweezers to remove the cards makes me sad.00:41
Stregbhima: don't bite your nails :p00:42
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keesjbecause of the stand on the n800 I now often have my left hand under the device, and I hit the lock / shutdown key form "under"00:42
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bhimaIn terms of browser quality, though, the N800 really is better. I was out driving with my wife, and she was using my 770 to find out info about where we were going.00:42
bhimaopera kept going away.00:42
bhimaI whipped out the N800, no problems.00:42
Takthe thumb usage improvements for the n800 are great00:43
bhimastreg: I have never bitten my nails. THe card in question didn't have enough of a lip.00:43
bhimatak: what do you mean?00:43
bhimaHmm. Does NTP include DST update info?00:43
TakI *never* have to take out the stylus on the n80000:43
bhimaI never have to on my 770 :P00:44
TakI do00:44
Takmaybe you have dainty thumbs :-P00:44
bhimaOf course, I can get away with my fingernail on my Newton, which has the hardest to press touch screen I have ever used.00:44
bhima(it's fine with normal pressure from a stylus; it's designed to feel like writing)00:44
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Stregbtw. instant nerdfun (eta 6mins or so) at:
k-scanola is released00:50
k-splease give it a try00:50
bhimaooh, nifty rocket.00:50
Taknow I just have to get to a charger...00:51
DrZeusanyone experienced with getting a dev environment up on fedora?00:51
bhimaCan you get close to launches like this?00:52
Takdo we have to specifically install a package for mplayer backend?00:52
k-sTak: it's not released yet00:53
k-sTak: andrunko will do it soon00:53
andrunkoTak: i am really tired to release it today00:53
* Tak sighs00:53
andrunkobut i will do it really soon, it's already done and working00:53
bhimaahh, next shuttle launch is ~March 15.00:54
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k-swe'll have to go...00:57
k-sit's friday, night... and carnival is already happening... and we're working00:57
s-ndh-ci followed the wiki page about installing sardine to my mmc card00:57
* k-s thinks we should be the last bastards working here in Recife00:57
s-ndh-chow does that stuff work?00:57
s-ndh-cmount still lists /dev/mtdblock4 as /00:57
k-sreport bugs to our garage tracker00:58
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k-sandrunko, chenca, lsobral: let's go00:58
lardman|homenight all00:58
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lsobrallets drink some beer now :)00:59
Taknight - enjoy carnival (if it's even impossible not to do so)00:59
andrunkoi will enjoy the carnival now :)00:59
andrunkobye all00:59
andrunkoenjoy canola ;)00:59
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s-ndh-cit displays booting from mmc2 then after some seconds it displays booting from flash01:12
s-ndh-csomething is wrong i guess01:12
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maddlera guy on ebay is selling a N800 at 510E!01:39
bhimaIs a guy buying?01:40
maddlerman... I hope no one can be *so* stupid to pay 110eur more than what he could pay from nokia store!01:41
bhimaWill he ship to places Nokia won't?01:41
maddlerno... he's only shipping to italy... as far as I can read...01:42
maddlerand anyway that would be too much!01:43
bhimaYes, but it would be _something_ extra.01:43
maddler100 plus shipping is not *something* man...01:44
bhimaerm, what I mean is, you could say "that wasn't worth Eu100." Now, you can just say, "You threw away Eu100"01:44
maddlerbtw... just found that N80 can download firmware upgrades using wi-fi... nice...01:44
bhimaN80 or N800?01:44
maddlerbhima: hehehe...01:44
maddlerN80 phone01:45
maddlerI'm a Nokia addicted... :)01:45
* bhima pets his E70.01:45
maddlerE70 is nice as well...01:46
bhimaI need to make my E70 into a 770 keyoard.01:46
maddlerI think it could be my next phone... replacing E61 :)01:47
bhimaMy phone has more pixels than your phone. :P01:47
maddlermy N800 has more $WHATEVER than your phone!01:47
bhimaseriously, it has a lot more. but interestingly, they're bigger so you get more data on your screeen.01:48
bhimaYour N800 has fewer radios than my phone.01:48
myrenFM, BT and wifi make three.01:48
maddlermyren: :)01:48
myreni'm not sure what four wifis a phone would have01:48
bhimapfft. receivers don't count.01:48
maddlerbhima: N800 wins!01:49
bhimaMy pen has more microprocessors than your N800. :P01:49
bhimaMy phone has bluetooth, wifi, and three GSM radios.01:49
myrenno, your phone is triband01:49
myrenit has PLL to select a frqeuency01:49
myrenotherwise the FM tuner is like 24 recievers01:49
maddlermyren: kick him! :D01:49
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bhimaI know what a PLL is. I wrote text poorly...01:50
myrenjust make sure you'r not trying to claim >3.  ;)01:50
bhimaMy phone has a vibrator. THat is actually something that I wish the N800 had.01:50
myrenthat would be nice actually.01:51
bhimaAlso, my phone can do standards-based SIP out of the box.01:51
maddlerbhima: I can make N800 vibrate!01:51
myreni'm not really an out of the box sorta guy.  i make my own boxes.01:51
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maddlerI only need to put it on my phone and call my number! :D01:51
bhimamyren: I made it do SIP to a SIP server I compiled from source. Does that count? :)01:52
bhimaAlso, it can use bluetooth headsets.01:52
myrenbonus points if it involved more than make; make install;  .:)01:52
bhimamyren: well, I needed to configure three config files and point them at my VoIP provider after I did the make install...01:53
* myren is not actualyl sure the build environment scratchbox provides01:53
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bhimaI need to get scratchbox working again on my mac. Once I have enough drive space.01:53
myrenbonus points awarded!  :)01:53
bhimaWhat about having two ARM9 CPUs in my pen? Along with a TCP/IP stack.01:54
myreni'm afraid of being all out or prizes01:54
myrenwhat pen?  i'm looking at digitizing pens &stuff01:54
myrentrying to find something slick01:54
bhimaMy pen needs to boot before I can use it.01:54
myrenthat has a prayer of working in linux01:54
bhimaNokia SU-1b.01:55
bhimaOh, this one is one of those sexy Anoto based pens.01:55
bhimaYou need to print your own paper if you want it to do nifty things.01:55
myrentheres some that'll just work with any paper01:55
bhimaAFAIK, if you want to do sexy stuff with this pen, you have two choices: license an SDK for Eu3k or so...01:55
bhimamyren: Not doing what this one does.01:55
bhimaThis one will know what page your'e on.01:55
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bhimaYour other option is to hassle me for my code. :)01:56
myrenif i can stream the raw live input, i'll right the drivers for it01:56
Magiis that digital pen actually of any use?01:56
myrenyou have the nokia sdk?01:56
bhimaI have no SDK.01:56
bhimaI, erm. wrote my own. :)01:56
myreni really want to write drivers for a pen some day01:57
myreni think that would be just amazingly cool01:57
bhimaYou can get a special firmware version that will stream live pen data. I don't have that, and honestly don't really want it.01:57
bhimaTHe way it works right now, you write on the page and it stores your strokes.01:57
bhimaHit "send book" and it sends all new strokes from every page in the book over bluetooth OBEX in a .PGC file.01:57
myrenstoring andd then processsing later is worthelss to me01:58
myreni want something i can use realtime01:58
maddlertime to hit the bed here...01:58
maddlerlater dudes...01:58
bhimaI think the R3 project from Stanford has some nifty stuff.01:58
myrennight maddler01:58
myreni'm having trouble googline R301:59
bhimaI may have forgotten the name. one moment.01:59
bhimawhat do you want to do with the pen?01:59
myrenhyperlinked note taking and to send commands to my computer02:00
myreni cant wait till i can call my computers 'decks'.02:00
bhimahyperlinked note taking doesn't require real-time.02:00
bhimasending commands, yeah, that would be nicer real-time.02:00
myreni plan on having interactivity with the screen02:00
myrenduring note taking02:00
bhimaOne of the nifty pads of paper somebody makes actually lets you make notes in the margins to tell the system what to dow ith the paper.02:01
bhimaso you can tell it, "convert this grid of numbers into a spreadhseet document"02:01
myrenthe thing is02:02
bhimaThe original ANoto-based pen, the Ericsson Chatpen, actually included handwriting recognition within the _pen_.02:02
myrenif i have something that can do realtime streaming02:02
bhimaonly for carefully marked sections.02:02
myreni can write the entire platform myself02:02
bhimaIf you can get the right firmware for the pen, you can do that.02:02
myreni dont know all the conventions i want now02:02
myrenthere was a pad on engadget recently02:02
myrenits a pad, so the absolute positioning will probably be much better02:03
myrenv. a pen which has to use accelerometers to detect positioning02:03
bhimaYou're thinking this pen uses accelerometers?02:03
bhimaI don't think anybody uses accelerometers.02:03
myrenwell, say you write the title on the page02:03
bhimaI don't even think it's possible to do it using accelerometers.02:03
myrenand then you go scribbe some stuff on the footer02:03
myrenhow does the pen know where in the page you are writing?02:04
bhimamagic. :)02:04
bhimaThere's a patternof dots.02:04
Fatalgps :D02:04
bhima0.3mm pitch02:04
bhima6x6 grid of them gives you absolute position.02:04
bhimawith the _entire_ paperspace...02:04
bhimawhich is much larger than a single peice of paper...02:04
bhimaeach dot is up/left/right/down that's it.02:04
myrentheres definately advantages to the "camera" based approach02:05
bhimaThis one requires the special paper, period.02:05
bhimaIt doens't take pictures of your writing.02:05
bhimaIt does note pressure data as well.02:05
myrenyou said you print out our paper?02:06
bhimaYup. I have a custom type 3 font I wrote.02:06
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bhimaYou need a good printer, but those are getting cheaper.02:06
bhima1200dpi or greater laser is best.02:06
bhimaAlso, if you want to print anything, you can't print it in black, cause then it'll interfere.02:07
bhimaProfessionally published notebooks have a type of ink, "Anoto Special Black" which doesn't absorb IR, iirc.02:07
bhimaIt's invisible to the pen; you print the dots with carbon black, and the text visible to the human using Anoto Special Black.02:08
* myren nods02:08
bhimaIf you have a laser or ink jet that you can make print 100% CMY, then you can fake it.02:08
bhimaNote that many lasers will do automatic grey component replacement.02:08
bhimaAnd you can often not turnt hat off.02:08
bhimaSo I have some things like a notebook that is synced to a PDF.02:08
bhimaI also integrated google maps with a notebook.02:09
bhimaUse google maps, find an area you care about.02:09
bhimaIt auto-generates a postscript document combining the google maps images for that area, and checks out a section of the dot space for you to use.02:09
VeggenCan I configure canola to ignore certain paths?02:10
bhimaWhen you draw an X on an area on the map, and check magic boxes on the bottom to indiate the annotations you care about, it adds that info to the map as little flags.02:10
bhimaThe size of the virtual dot space is...big...02:10
myrenis this for grad research?02:10
bhimafor fun.02:10
VeggenIt's indexing a rather huge Maemo-mapper cache, right now...not the pictures I'd like indexed ;)02:10
bhimamyren: wanna guess how big the dot space is? :)02:11
bhima6x6 grid, 2 bits per dot. 72 bits.02:11
myreninch by inch02:12
myrenlittle bigger02:12
bhimaThe pen has the ability to position itself absolutely.02:12
bhimaYou can touch it on a certain part of a certain page, and it will immediately know which page your'e on and where on the page.02:12
myrenfricking 8 days ago and like 30 pages back through egnadget02:13
bhimaEvery book has 128 possible pages.02:14
myrenunfortuantely i highly doubt the ability to stream.  especially since theres no wifi02:14
bhimaThen they divide it up into shelves, then sections.02:14
bhimaThe virtual dot space is bigger than Europe and Asia combined.02:15
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myreni gotta roll, friends last day at work, going drinking02:16
myrenthanks for the chat02:16
bhimahave fun.02:16
myrenfun talking about that shit02:16
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konfooirc from terminal? :)02:33
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s-ndh-cirssi ownz!02:40
s-ndh-cbest irc client ever02:40
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user_BitchX pwnz joo02:47
matt_cmmm canola02:47
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Tak|770where is the syslog on an IT?05:08
Tak|770all I have in /var/log is fontconfig.log05:14
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kulveTak|770: it's not installed by default07:29
Tak|770eek - so what should I install ?07:33
kulveapt-get install sysklogd07:36
Tak|770cool, thanks07:36
kulvebut thay may log a lot to flash and some people are afraid of flash wearing out07:36
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Tak|770got it07:42
Tak|770will be temporary07:42
kulven800 or 770?07:43
kulve770, I guess?07:44
Tak|770although it'll probably go to n800 once it works07:49
kulvethat can be used to start and stop syslog style services07:50
kulveso they can be used only when needed07:50
kulveI have a 770 version too..07:50
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Sulisheeeey, what memory card(s) should i order along with my n800?10:41
Sulisshould i just go for one 2gb miniSD or go for a 4gb miniSD for twice the price? the 2gb now and wait for SDHC?10:43
Magi4gb are not compatible according to specs, but might still work10:45
Sulisi've read that they have worked10:47
Sulisi don't know if they will all work though i guess10:47
tolgamSulis: you will find some answers there :
guerbySulis, Transcend TS4GSDC and TS4GSD150 work for me (both 4GB for ~40-50 euros each), only caveat is that you have to format them from your PC, mkdosfs on N800 won't create more than 2GB file system10:52
Sulisok, i guess you've just formatted them to fat32 though?10:54
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Sulisthere's someone on that forum who has posted that the transcend 150 doesn't work...hmm11:12
konfooi did11:16
Sulisyes, you did11:17
Sulisdid you get it working at all?11:17
konfoonah. i just sent the card back to transcend yesterday actually11:18
Sulisoh right, did you try to reformat it on your pc?11:19
konfooworks fine there11:19
Sulisbut it still didn't work in your n800?11:19
konfoono, didnt work in 3 n800s11:19
konfoofat32 or ext211:19
Sulisoh, that's irritating then11:20
konfoovery :)11:20
konfooill see what happens when i get a replacement11:20
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Sulisperhaps i'll order one 2gb card and one 4gb card then, to be sure that i have at least one card that works...11:21
konfooi have 2x2gb cards in the n800 right now11:22
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Sulisi kinda don't want to that11:25
i386anyone here know about the hildon C# bindings?11:25
Sulisi don't really want my music to be scattered accross two cards11:26
konfooSulis: haha yeah.. i agree11:33
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Suliskonfoo: did you have the TS4GSD150?12:08
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mgedminnomis: if I build and run statusbar-clock in scratchbox, it doesn't use mirrored digits12:23
mgedmindo you know why?12:23
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mgedmincanola's user interface RULES!12:51
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Sulishummm, there's already a patch for the n800's kernel for sdhc :O12:54
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maddlermgedmin: as alaways :D13:00
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mgedminone thing I can't figure out: doesn't canola have a shuffle setting?13:29
mgedminah, I have to choose random from the menu13:30
mgedminhm, I cannot tap on menu items to select them, I have to tap on the arrows13:32
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Guard][anhello maemo13:58
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nomismgedmin: you might need to change the source to use the correct pixdata structure in line 272.14:12
nomiseh, wait.14:13
nomismgedmin: I am unsure right now, I might have been confusing something.14:13
nomismgedmin: line 483 is where the pixdata gets deserialized.14:14
mgedminor perhaps the statusbar is smaller in the theme in the SDK14:14
nomisI don't think so.14:15
mgedminand the mirror effect is cut off?14:15
nomismgedmin: it is more likely that I confused something and converted the wrong png into the header file.14:15
mgedminah, so the 0.6 source tarball may not match the 0.6 deb?14:15
nomismgedmin: did you download that stuff from garage?14:16
mgedminanother thing I've noticed is that clicking on the clock shows me TZ="lallalaa"14:16
mgedmininstead of the data/time14:16
mgedminI downloaded the stuff from garage14:16
mgedminalso, the version in svn matches exactly the 0.6 source tarball14:16
nomisthe TZ="something" is supposed to be some debug output for the TZ variable. If TZ indeed is "lallalaa" then nokia did not fix the problem with the use of TZ.14:17
* nomis used to see binary garbage instead of readable thext there though.14:17
mgedminlalallala is just a substitute, I don't remember the exact string14:18
nomismgedmin: ok.14:18
mgedminand it happens only in scratchbox, the armel deb works fine14:18
mgedmin(in scratchbox with a 386 deb I compiled from the svn sources)14:18
nomismgedmin: oh, you are trying the thing in scratchbox itself? Yeah, TZ is definitely messed up there.14:18
mgedminlooks good to me14:19
nomismgedmin: it probably won't happen if you try it on the device itself.14:19
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nomismgedmin: its wrong though. I don't remember exactly what is supposed to be in TZ, but this is a value that cannot get interpreted by libc, and thus gets interpreted as "UTC".14:20
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nomiswhich only happens to be correct if you are actually in UTC.14:20
nomisThere is a bug in bugzilla about that.14:20
nomisThere I dumped all the stuff I learned about that when I tried to debug time-offsets (panelclock showing a different time than the clock on the desktop).14:21
mgedminI'm pretty sure glibc understands this value...14:21
nomisBut I probably could have told it a wall as well.14:21
mgedminbut there is something screwy with timezone settings in the n770/n80014:22
mgedminanyway, what I would like to do, is to make statusbar-clock switch to white digits if the statusbar background of the selected theme is dark14:22
mgedminthe only way I can think of if to extract the current theme from the _MB_THEME root window property14:22
nomismgedmin: yeah, there is some code that recolors a pixbuf without changing the alpha channel, which is useful for this. The problem is to figure out a usable color.14:23
mgedminload qgn_plat_application_status_bar_background.png from the images/ subdir14:23
mgedminsample the pixel in the middle14:23
mgedminand choose black or white depending on that14:23
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nomismgedmin: yeah, something like this, or sample the whole region and scale the resulting pixbuf down to a single pixel to get an average color. Getting the proper time to sample from screen was what stopped me at that point.14:24
mgedminhow about do it on startup?14:25
mgedminand then watch for property notification events on the root window14:25
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nomismgedmin: what does "on startup" mean? When the widget is realized? When it gets mapped? After the first expose event? (Probably the expose event, this unfortunately needs some hacking around, one can no longer simply set the GtkImage, since then it would be included into the sampled pixels)14:28
mgedminin statusbarclock_initialize14:28
mgedminI am not thinking about sampling the screen14:28
mgedminbut loading the theme image14:28
nomisok, that might work.14:29
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nomismgedmin: how does one determine the theme image for the applet background?14:29
mgedminthe _MB_THEME property on the X root window has the path to the matchbox theme directory14:30
mgedminthere's a theme.xml in it that tells matchbox to draw the status bar at certain coordinates with a certain image14:30
mgedminI'm not sure I'm up to parsing XML in C yet, so I think I'll hardcode the image name to "../images/qgn_plat_application_status_bar_background.png"14:30
nomis*matchbox* draws the theme there?14:30
mgedminthere's also _MB_THEME_NAME property14:31
mgedminthat theme.xml file is rather interesting14:31
mgedmin_MB_THEME, in all cases I saw, was /usr/share/themes/$_MB_THEME_NAME/matchbox14:31
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mgedminwith a trailing slash even14:31
mgedminI wonder if the theme selection dialog is part of the open-source packages...14:32
mgedminmaybe there's a better way to figure out the current theme14:32
mgedmingconf would be nice, but I couldn't find the theme name anywhere in gconf14:32
nomisok, thinking about it some more, it indeed makes sense that matchbox draws the theme. It is after all window decoration...14:33
Jaffa nomis: you can't talk sense when it comes to window decoration and theming on Maemo, otherwise Matchbox would be drawing the window border rather than HildonWindow (on the right/bottom edges)14:34
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Jaffakeesj: I've setup a test mud repo and am in the process of ensuring that `mud -a build' works on ARM.14:34
nomisJaffa: ok, I'll stop then  ;)14:34
* mgedmin is trying to translate a Python one-liner into C: gtk.gdk.get_default_root_window().property_get("_MB_THEME")14:35
nomismgedmin: "You are advised to use XGetWindowProperty() directly until a replacement function for gdk_property_get() is provided."  :)14:35
mgedminI saw that :)14:36
JaffaActually, *is* there a good reason Matchbox doesn't draw the right/bottom edges of the theme? Making the windows the size of the application area would mean HildonWindow would have to do less which fits with Nokia's "don't fork too much" Gtk strategy14:36
keesjJaffa: I have done something similar , does you repo also have the source deb files and i386 stuff?14:36
nomis(from the gdk documentation)14:36
keesjJaffa: What sdk are you using?>14:36
Jaffakeesj: it could do14:36
keesjJaffa:  I don't know if they will work :p14:36
nomismgedmin: sorry, i have to run. You're welcome to hack on this.14:36
Jaffakeesj: 2.1 still. Need to sort out a system for 2.2 and 3.0 building.14:36
keesjmy scripts still fails to add the icons in the Packages.gz14:37
* Jaffa 's been more concerned with actually ensuring everything builds :)14:38
keesjthis is the "repo" makefile I use
keesjand this the "all" file ,
keesjJaffa: did you try my dsl maemo sdk? I would be willing to add scripts so that a fresh install is tested every day14:41
Jaffakeesj: `mud -a build' works in latest svn14:41
Jaffakeesj: not yet - been ill the last week and only really started picking stuff up again yesterday.14:41
JaffaFood time.14:41
keesjand I was in a bugalow park with no internet14:42
* mgedmin wonders if X properties of type STRING have a trailing \0 or not14:44
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nomismgedmin: you are right about the TZ=:* thing:
mgedminyeah, I think that's where I saw it documented14:47
nomis(however, the value on the 770 definitely was bogus, it just had four apparently random letters/control characters)14:47
nomisand it was one of the desktop applets that messed with it.14:48
mgedminthe string I pasted for you was in scratchbox14:48
mgedminI don't know what it looks like on n80014:48
mgedminI could figure out, though14:48
mgedmin... appears to be undefined14:49
mgedminaccording to sudo grep TZ /proc/*/environ14:49
nomismgedmin: with or without the RSS applet?14:50
mgedminwith the RSS applet14:50
nomisok, maybe this got fixed on the N800.14:50
mgedminhow do I load a png into memory with gtk?14:51
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mgedminhm, doesn't know anything about it14:52
nomismight be useful to use gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_scale() with width/height = 1.14:52
nomismgedmin: gdkpixbuf is a separate library14:52
nomismgedmin: and I recommend installing devhelp, it sometimes is a bit cumbersome to navigate, but it helps tremendously with discovering functions.14:53
nomis(via search function)14:53
mgedminthanks for the suggestion14:53
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mgedminhm, the error argument of gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file... can I pass NULL there?15:00
mgedminif not, do I have to free it with g_free, or g_object_unref, or what?15:00
mgedminmaybe I should join #gtk15:01
nomismgedmin: you can pass NULL.15:04
nomisif you pass an error variable make sure its content is NULL first - otherwise GTK will complain.15:05
nomis(to prevent you from "piling up" errors without clearing them first)15:05
nomisyou can use g_clear_error() to reset it after handling the error (whatever that means)15:05
nomisGError *err = NULL;15:06
nomisdo_function_invocation (..., &err);15:07
nomisif (err) handle_error();15:07
nomisg_clear_error (&err);15:07
nomisor just pass NULL as location if you want to ignore the error anyway.15:07
* nomis is away now for real.15:08
keesjIs there a maemo-mapper developer around?15:08
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mgedmincan I install plankton in scratchbox?15:12
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mgedminthe hildon-theme-cacher deb appears to be armel-only15:13
mgedminhm, the theme selector is not available in scratchbox either :/15:15
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mgedminok, time to brick my device ;)15:19
keesjJaffa: I know U sent an email talking about the steps for acepting new packages , I can't find it any more15:20
keesjIt was about the workflow15:20
mgedminJaffa: I built vim 7.0 with mud-builder; where should I send the patch?15:22
keesjmelmoth: in the mud patch tracker15:23
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mgedminhaha! success!15:28
mgedminI have a white clock15:28
keesjalright the pixel thing :)15:29
mgedminnow what's a good way to pick contrasting colours?15:30
mgedmincurrently I have an if (r+g+b >= 0x80 * 3) { use black } else { use white }15:30
mgedminit picks black for plankton15:31
mgedminwhile I expected white15:31
* maddler need coffee!15:38
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* melmoth is looking for desktop integration help.15:58
melmothI do not understand what i am doing wrong, but i cannot have an app started automatically graphically.15:58
melmothIf somebody could have a look and tell me what i m doing wrong ( s the week end !)
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mgedminmelmoth: you can remove all those *.ex files from debian/16:08
mgedminI remember a thread on maemo-users (or perhaps maemo-developers) about trailing whitespace breaking .desktop files16:09
mgedminyour .desktop has no trailing whitespace, but your dbus .service file has some16:09
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melmothhmm, good point16:10
maddlerhmmm... is repo working for you?16:10
keesjmaddler: how many reposutories are behind ?16:11
maddlerkeesj: "some" ;)16:12
maddlerhehe... didn't considered...16:12
keesjI can get to
melmothhowever, this is not the cause of the problem...16:12
keesjhmm , that  is not a repository16:12
maddlerkeesj: W: Couldn't stat source package list bora/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-armel_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)16:13
keesjmaddler: they all look pretty empty16:14
maddlerbtw... working now...16:15
maddlerwho knows...16:15
maddlerI tried 3 times before asking...16:16
maddlerMurphy's law! :D16:16
maddler"As soon as you ask about a problem, the problem will disappear!"16:17
maddler(and you will look like a newbie)16:17
maddlerI could try asking about problems *before* having a problem! This way I could be able to solve problems in advance!16:18
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keesjI was reading "the pragmatic programmer last week". page 3 -> "Somtimes, you just know what they are going to say, so save them the trouble" (about talking to you boss about problems)16:23
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maddlermgedmin: canola is not reading my MP3s tags... or at least it is not reading artist at least...16:53
maddleris it working for you?16:53
mgedminI think so16:53
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maddlerok... I've just started a new scan...16:54
maddlersbaturzio: aloha! :D16:54
maddlersbaturzio: what was wrong with paci and Nokia?16:55
mgedminwhy do some garage projects not have a bug tracker? (e.g. mmpc)16:55
sbaturziomaddler: his N800 never worked16:55
sbaturziosent it to assistance more than a month ago and no news from Nokia16:56
maddlerouch... yep... that hurts...16:56
maddlermgedmin: looks there is something wrong with the Mp3 I was indexing...16:59
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sbaturziois there a "keyring" manager for N800? It is one of that programs I need for switch from Palm to maemo ;-)17:16
maddlersbaturzio: not that I know of...17:17
shackanI'm not used to touchscreen devices and I fear to scratch this N800 (I want it to last as long as possible) do you know about any kind protection for the screen?17:17
maddlerI was just thinking that having a GUI for PGP would be kinda nice...17:17
maddlershackan: you can easily find screen protector on ebay...17:18
maddlerbut I have to say that I had no protection on my 770 and scree after mor tha a year of daily use is still in great shape...17:18
Magishackan: The plastic can be enduring, my Palm lasted very long, even though I used hand-written text input for writing. Don't know about 770's display though.17:19
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MagiBut the "screen protector" that comes when you buy the piece is just ok...17:19
sbaturzioI've heard that PSP screen protector are almost of the same size of th N800 screen, maybe they are cheaper17:20
shackanmmm, in the light I see some scratches where the backspace button and the scroll bar are, or maybe I'm just paranoid...17:20
Sulisif they're made by sony... they won't be17:20
sbaturzioSulis: sure :-)17:21
mgedminsbaturzio: there's password safe, that sort of works17:21
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kkitohello :)17:21
sbaturziomgedmin: and it store the password in a crypted file?17:21
sbaturziomgedmin: good!17:22
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mk8Hi to all ....17:22
maddleryes, password safe is nice...17:22
maddlermk8: hi17:23
kkitohi mk817:23
sbaturziook, I'll give it a try I need a way to sync Evolution with a calendar/todo inside N800 ;-)17:24 I annoying everybody with my requests? ;-)17:24
maddlersbaturzio: I could always use /ignore :)17:26
mk8I'm new for the maemo platform and want to build some application ... so I think I need the SDK but I don't understand if want a debian-like distribution or is possible to installa everyware ... I use OpenSuSE .... sorry for my english ... and my unexperience ...:(17:28
maddlermk8: it should be possible to use scratchbox/sdk on any distribution AFAIK17:29
kkitosbaturzio, how do you sync the n800 with evolution?17:30
maddlerno need to excuse for not being an advanced user... we all started from 0 ;)17:30
sbaturziokkito: haven't done it 'til now. I'm looking for the best combination desktop/n800 applications for my job17:30
sbaturziobut both Evolution and GPE* should be based to the same evolution-data-server17:31
koenbzzzzt! wrong!17:31
kkitomk8, download the vmware ubuntu image with the maemo inside17:31
sbaturzioso if I find a way to sync one with the other I will be happy :-)17:31
koensbaturzio: GPE* doesn't use eds (yet)17:31
kkitosbaturzio, :)17:31
mk8kkito: I suppose the best way is use an VMware image ... but I not found it in the maemo site ... can you give the link?17:32
sbaturziokoen: which is the (other) PIM application which use EDS? (I remember there IS one)17:32
mgedminmk8: why use vmware if you've got linux already?17:34
mgedminjust install scratchbox17:34
mk8because I use a SuSE distribution ... so, if the SDK is released to debina ths simplest solution is create a VM using debian and use it .... for the first step ....17:35
jonnylambthe install script automates eeverything- very handy!17:35
kkitomk8 you can find the image on the vmware site17:36
Sulisthere must be ways that you can use .deb packages in distributions that use rpm17:37
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mk8kkito: so the image is not available on maemo site .... it's ok?17:38
mgedmindoesn't have rpms for suse?17:38
mk8ok .... kkito ... thank .... now start the download ... :)17:38
kkitoi prefer to develop with a vmware image because you can copy the image to an usb sttorage or similar and carry it with you... ;)17:40
mk8also I ....17:40
jonnylambmgedmin: doesn't look it fromthe sb website.. only binary tarballs/debs/source..17:41
mk8and when migrate the computer simply copy the disk image ...17:41
mk8the main computer will became a VM runner ... :)17:41
mk8in the next day ofter You will see me (sorry but my english is very awful ... :((( )17:42
keesjmk8: there is an installer that at least work on gentoo so I don't know why it should not work on Suse17:44
keesjdownload the       from here
mgedminvncviewer rulees17:46
mk8in this moment I prefer use the VM image .... another question ... anyone know if is available a port of mono?17:47
keesjmk8: yes , check the maemo wiki17:51
mk8Thank's keesj .....17:51
keesjdid anybody try my dsl based qemu image17:53
Stregkkito: Is it like that old m$ loghorn msdn video where the dude goes on and on about this "new script programming" that he can do everywhere. "If I get a feeling, I can just start coding on my wives laptop, or my childrens, or uncle, or..." :p17:59
kkitoStreg, :)18:00
Stregkkito: I admire the dedication though :)18:01
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maddlerhi florian...18:07
maddlerdamn... my status bar has gone mad...18:07
mk8See you next time ..... bye18:08
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maddlerthe "triangle" icon just overlaps with the fist icon...18:08
maddlerand clicking on it won't work...18:08
disqnew idea just came to me - connect the tablet to the phone as a bt headset and relay calls thru the tablet. so one set of headphones (bt or wired) and it could also pause the music when i'm on call18:08
maddlerdisq: nice :)18:09
disqalso i kinda wish the bt headset protocol could relay the screen info (who's calling, etc) then we could get spoken call notifications via flite18:10
disqbut it's probably just a dumb audio protocol18:11
mgedminI think some bt headsets have a little lcd that shows the caller info18:12
disqmmm that's great18:12
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maddlerdisq: that would be simply great! :D18:16
pahartikmgedmin: MacOS X addressbook application supposedly announces ID of incoming voice call and SMS on screen over Bluetooth, with supported telephone models18:16
maddlerdamn... no way... status bar is broken... :|18:16
Sulispahartik: and what are those telephone models?18:17
Sulisdoes it include only the iphone?18:17
pahartikSulis: If I recall correctly, most of models with S60 interface18:18
Sulisah right18:18
pahartikSulis: (And not only those)18:18
Sulisthat does sound interesting, i wonder if there's anything linux can do in the same vein?18:19
pahartikSulis: I did not try with Nokia 6310i, but at least my current Nokia 6151 (with S40 interface) is not supported for that, and requires third-party module for Addressbook and Calendar support18:20
pahartikSulis: "gnome-phone-manager" depends on "gnokii" and "...listens for text messages, and when they arrive, displays them..."18:23
pahartikSulis: No idea about anything that would do that for incoming voice calls...18:23
Sulisi tent to use kde, although i probably still have half of gnome from when i used xgl18:26
pahartikSulis: My main problem with Nokia 770 is currently losing network uplink connection when walking around... I do not know if it is because Bluetooth or WCDMA... Firmwares on both are latest from week ago18:27
Sulisdid you actually mean to address that to the whole channel?18:29
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pahartikSulis: Well, that was somewhat out of context :)18:31
pahartikSulis: But announcing incoming voice calls should not be problem with current telephones, two Bluetooth devices work just fine with Nokia 6151 at same time (For example)18:34
maddlerdamn... damn... damn...18:37
Sulisyeah, i don't know if my phone is "current" anymore though18:38
Sulisi guess it can work with two bluetooth devices, but i don't actually have two bluetooth devices...other than computers i guess18:38
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kkitoif the kernel has the btsco module we can program some handsfree app for the n80018:43
Sulisyeah, and i like the sound of that18:44
Sulisactually...what do you mean when you say handsfree app?18:44
kkitoan app that let you to use the n800 like a handsfree device18:46
Sulisah, yeah, i'm not entirely sure what the point of that would be though, for me at least18:48
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com1looking at the specs 4 the omap 4 the n80018:57
c0ffeethe n800 has an omap2, not an omap419:03
c0ffeel33tspeak sucks btw19:03
koensays the person with a leetspeak nickname ;)19:05
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c0ffeeit's hexadecimal!19:06
zuhis that better or worse?-)19:06
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Suliswhat's omap?19:09
* konfoo yawns19:19
konfoocoffee: i would tend to believe you if your nick were C0FFEE19:19
konfooplus, it is only 6 bytes...19:20
konfooat least C0FFEEEE19:20
Suliscos 8 bytes is soooo much more useful?19:21
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Sulisit sounds to me like sdhc works quite well with the patches :O19:38
Sulisi may just have to order some sdhc cards :)19:38
maddlerSulis: yep...19:42
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Sulismaddler: have you tried it?19:50
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com1meh. i need bose triport20:08
koenpeople need bose?20:10
koenget an equalizer and drop all medium frequencies to get the same effect20:11
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maddlerSulis: not tried SHDC... I have 2 x 4GB SD cards and is enough right now...20:49
DrZeusyou'll have the mmc equivalent as well once I can get a dev environment up...20:51
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Sulismaddler: i just think there's a greater chance of sdhc working properly with whatever i order20:55
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maddlerSulis: true... I was just sure those SDs weren't SDHC when I bought them :)20:58
Sulisyou wanted them to be SD?20:59
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maddlerSulis: no... they had those in the place where I usually buy PC stuff21:11
maddlerit is a wholesaler...21:12
maddlerso I paid about 25eur each21:12
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maddlerwhich is pretty nice :)21:12
maddlertime to go buy some good pizza now! :D21:12
maddlersee you alter...21:12
svu_is there any way to make media player sort files available through upnp?21:12
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Stregdoes anyone know how canola & gmediaserver work together. I seems that it takes a long time (still processing) to access those shared files (I have quite a few 5000+). Is it caching them the first time?21:19
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* Sulis wonders what canola does21:20
StregOr am I just experiecing an infinite loop? gmediaserver is using 100% of CPU at the moment and the past 5 minutes.21:21
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Stregsbaturzio: well aloha to you too, it's below zero here in finland :)21:22
sbaturziostanlly: here it was a nice sunny, warm day in Italy ;-)21:22
Streglucky you :)21:22
sbaturziostanlly: ooops usual wrong tab completion sorry ,-)21:22
sbaturzioStreg: ;-)21:23
sbaturzioStreg: but I must confess Finland is one of those places I want to visit21:23
StregI believe that this is a great place to visit, and i ephasize the vird visit :)21:24
StregI tells something about a country, if people are creating operating systems on their free time ;)21:25
Sulislol, i think that tells more about students than it does the country21:27
disqgtktextview+rtf experience anyone?21:29
Stregcold country, cold people -> maybe I should create an unix clone ;)21:29
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inzdisq, pain ;)21:34
disqi did all the stuff. except, after it loads a rtf document i can't change the already-set properties21:35
disqie. a weight=bold tag (that's created with gtktextbufferdeserializerichtext) overrides a newly applied weight=normal tag21:36
disqsomething tells me that i have to iterate the tagtable and summarize/convert the tags, but it's too much work to try21:37
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mgedmindisq: what sucks about LGPL?22:06
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disqerm sorry they're not lgpl either22:08
disqwill change that22:08
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mgedminperhaps you meant to say "closed"?22:09
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* maddler feels *better* after a good pizza and some beer! :D22:29
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maddlernow... let's try to undestand why panelclock decided to broke statusbar layout...22:30
mgedminwhy do you think panelclock did that?22:32
mgedminby the way, there's one very suspicious disappearing panel applet: the contacts one22:33
mgedminI saw it initially next to the presence one, but then it just disappeared22:33
maddlermgedmin: because disabling panelclock everything works fine...22:37
mgedmindo you have panelclock or statusbar-clock?22:37
mgedminpanelclock was for os200622:37
maddlerif panelclock is enabled the triangle overlaps first icon22:37
maddlerI know... but it worked without a glitch until today...22:37
maddlerfor about a month...22:38
maddlerit was one of the first applications I installed...22:38
mgedminstrange and/or interesting22:38
maddlermgedmin: indeed...22:38
maddlerI only know the problem first appened right after installing canola...22:38
maddlerbut I think there is no relation...22:39
maddlermge and also just found
maddleron panelclock directory22:41
mgedminfwiw I've got statusbarclock 0.6 and the triangle does not overlap any icons22:42
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maddlereh... but if you look at the image... looks like I'm not the only one experiencing the problem...22:43
maddlerthe poin is: what changed _today_?22:44
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disqmaddler: too much icons in the tray area?22:46
s100userhello all22:46
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mgedminI've got 8 icons there right now22:47
mgedminwhat's a good background image to go with the plankton theme?22:48
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maddlermgedmin: sorry was testing22:55
maddlermgedmin: I can confirm the problem only raises if panelclock is enabled22:56
mgedminwill you try statusbarclock?22:57
maddlermgedmin: sure... where from?22:57
mgedmineither from the garage page22:57
mgedminor you can get a patched one from my repo, that also works with dark themes22:58
maddlerpaste your repo23:01
mgedmin bora user23:02
disqtime to sleep, tired. cya all23:03
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maddlerdisq: cya23:06
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bedboi_n800Anyone is able to use phonelink with 6630?23:20
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maddlermgedmin: statusbarclock is working fine :D23:21
maddlerbedboi_n800: I gave it a try with N8023:21
maddlerbut wasn't working23:22
maddlerI should try again and try uderstand what was wrong23:23
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