IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-02-16

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lardmanGood news, statically linked libm into whetstone and produced the following: O0 optimisation = 58.8MIPS, O3 optimisation = 250MIPS (!!!)00:03
koentha'ts only 5 times00:04
koencompile it with -noatime -Ogentoo ;)00:05
lardmanWell certainly better than using the non-vfp libm which gives something like 33.3MIPS max iirc00:05
lardmanyou can never have too many MIPS ;)00:09
konfoothe more mips the merrier00:09
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sp3000oh, cool, spontaneous reboot00:13
matt_c_sp3000: those are there to keep you on your toes.00:14
fish_melmoth: ah.. thats might be the problem with my n770 too00:15
fish_the disk is pretty full00:15
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lardmanI'm all MIPed out, night all00:19
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bipolarIs anyone using the GPE PIM apps on an 800? I added the kernelconcepts repo, but it's missing libgcrypt.00:21
bipolarOr maybe other PIM apps are better?00:22
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bipolaranyone ported kontact yet? :P00:22
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hubbipolar: I use Dates from o-hand00:23
hubbipolar: they still don't have Contact out00:23
hubI still wonder why there is no such thing by default on the Nokia00:23
bipolarhub: got a linky?00:23
sbaturziobipolar: I think you need the bora/free repository00:23
sbaturziomy libgcrypt11 comes from there00:24
Magibipolar: I installed something or did something else and the GPE Calendar installed just fine.00:26
MagiIt was a bit strange00:26
hubcrap my n770 is dead again00:26
bipolarsbaturzio: yep! that was it. thanks!00:26
sbaturziobipolar: np00:27
bipolarhub: that looks cool.00:27
bipolarI gotta find something that syncs with my linux pc or my server.00:27
hubI think there is something00:29
bipolarI love this n800... it was a great buy :)00:29
Stregbipolar: welcome to the club.00:30
bipolarMy last linux device was my Zaurus 5500. :)00:31
hubthe previous one was my DSL modem00:32
huboh no I forgot I got a blackdog since00:32
hapany canola developers around?00:33
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k-shap: yep00:34
k-shap: chenca, andrunko, myself00:34
hapok. Just wondering, is canola playing streaming mp3s ?00:34
hapand does it understand .m3u playlists ?00:34
hapah, sounds good00:35
k-shap: just use canola-conf to add "iradios"00:35
hapwell i have to wait tomorrow then, it's not ready yet, is it ?00:35
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k-sor just place .m3u or .pls files on your media collection (but these will ignore files other than local files)00:35
k-shap: if you want to beta test :-)00:36
hapfor the mp3 decoding, does it use the nokia software? I try to play mp3 trough flash/webpage, it's a little slow. I hope to be able to read thoses streaming mp3 through canola then00:36
hapk-s: i want, where can i download ? :)00:36
k-shap:  yes, it uses nokia software00:36
hapcan i fetch from svn ?00:36
k-suser: tester00:36
k-spass: beta200:36
k-sit's still "secret" until tomorrow :-)00:37
hapwon't leave IRC00:37
hapas we say00:37
andrunkojust uploaded version 1.0.1-1indt500:37
k-shap: canola is not open source, yet (I hope!)00:37
andrunkowith video properly working FINALLY00:37
hapk-s: ah ok, i hoped so.00:37
k-skuddos to myself00:37
hapare you working for a brazilian company?00:37
Tak:-D andrunko00:38
k-swe work at INdT00:38
andrunkogot go now, go test the version i uploaded and if you find any problem wait till tomorrow :D00:38
hapok let me try that00:38
hapdoes it play dvix ? :p00:38
k-shap: yes00:38
k-ssome sort of...00:38
hapah, streaming divx ? ... :)00:38
k-swe have a gift for you00:38
Takis that in the beta2 repo?00:38
k-sandrunko has written a MPlayer backend00:38
andrunkoTak: yep00:38
k-sTak: yep00:38
Takvery nice00:38
Takand AWESOME @ mplayer backend00:39
andrunkoi will release a package for it tomorrow00:39
chencaandrunko:tomorrow? why?00:39
andrunkochenca: ahhhhh, i got go, see you tomorrow00:40
k-sTak: put some pressure on andrunko ...00:40
chencaandrunko: hahahahaha00:40
sbaturziois there a way to sync gpe-* to an evolution installation on my PC?00:40
Taktomorrow's good enough for me ;-)00:40
* k-s waits for andrunko...00:40
* k-s wonder how good would be that mplayer backend... :-)00:40
Takincidentally, I love how easy canola is to theme00:41
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k-sTak: do you have any theme?00:41
TakI created a Tigger theme for my fiancee00:41
k-sTak: screenshots?00:41
Takprobably no good to distribute; full of copyrighted content00:41
k-sTak: have you seen the green invasion (aka matrix) theme?00:42
Takyeah, I saw it00:42
Taknot to my taste, but it's nice00:42
k-sTak: just a screenshot for friends :-)00:42
maddlernice! canola on its way!!!00:42
bipolarhub: how do you have your o-hand repo set up?00:42
k-swe have a new default theme!00:42
k-swe're all tired of that old one00:42
hubbipolar: check on maemo application catalog00:43
hubbipolar: dates is listed there00:43
bipolaryou mean the click to install stuff?00:43
Takk-s: I don't have any screenshots on hand; I can take some later00:46
bipolarhub: I'm trying to set up the repo in the application manager app, but they don't list anything for 'Components' and it won't pull the repo without it, it seems.00:46
maddlerk-s I like that theme...00:46
hubwhich repo?00:46
StregCanola team has a great "tease and tickle" way of reporting their progress. almost there, tomorrow... :)00:47
hubbipolar: you didn't read the page, did you?00:47
bipolarhub: the one I just sent you?00:47
hubbipolar: "Instructions on repository setup are available by following the above links."00:47
bipolarhub: thats the link I just sent you00:48
hubdid you open THAT link?00:48
hubin you browser00:48
bipolarhub: on my pc, yes00:48
hubthen you have everything needed00:48
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hubif components is empty it is empty00:49
bipolarnotice how there is nothing listed on that page for 'Components'00:49
hubdon't forget the / at the end00:49
hubof Distribution00:49
bipolarahh... thats probbly it00:49
k-sStreg: at least this time you can try it earlier00:49
bipolarhub: yep... thanks again :)00:49
Stregk-s: actually I tried canola on my N800 a week after the CES release. a big mistake :)00:51
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k-sStreg: have you tried the 770 version on n800?00:54
StregI think it was the 770 version :) hopefully tomorrow I don't have to reflash my device...00:55
hubI tried canola on my 770, didn't work well00:56
hubsince I reflashed I didn't reinstall it00:56
hubas I can't fix it00:56
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StregI should learn by my mistakes, but tomorrow if they release it, I'm pretty sure I'll have a go at it :)00:57
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c0ffeeis somebody working on the osso-email thing to support more than one folder?00:58
maddlerStreg: same... canola is a GREAT piece of software!00:58
Stregbtw. Is there a feature request page for the "original" software? I'd like to express my thought about that email application myself00:59
jtrafunny, I ran mplayer on 770 and it had some problems, no display but audio was running, I killed -9 it and tried again, only audio was heard, so I pressed power button and selected "switch off" - but because power adapter is attached and mplayer cannot be killed without -9 it still runs and I can hear audio while charging icon is displayed00:59
c0ffeethere's an anti-swearing policy, so it's pretty hard to express ones feelings about the email app :)00:59
Stregc0ffee: :)01:00
Stregwell I can contain myself, if you tell me where to whine in a civilized manner.01:00
MagiNews: "Motorola chose Linux for its phones"... I just wonder when Nokia will add phone chip to the nxxx-series...01:00
StregMagi: I'd guess it will be yet another "hidden feature" in the next version :)01:01
MagiProbably ;-)01:02
MagiSomeone hypothetized that phone makes may not wish to let people mess with gsm protocol at too low level.01:03
maddlern2001 maybe01:03
maddleror a N9000 (codename Hal)01:03
hapk-s: iRadio is not what I look for01:03
StregFor a device that is supposed to be on all the time, the email application handles already read messages in IMAP servers like crap.01:04
hapk-s: I have .m3u, can I ask the opera browser to open them with canola, and will canola play what's in there?01:04
AndyCapMagi: well, with the right gsm module that's not a problem.01:04
c0ffeei regard the lack of a gsm chip a feature of the IT01:05
k-shap: no :-(01:05
StregNow why would I want to read 10 emails again from my N800 just to get rid of the contacts icon flashing. *anger boils up*01:05
k-shap: we're evaluating this, but not now01:05
k-shap: sorry01:05
hapk-s: because I have streaming mp3 from a local httpd01:05
k-sStreg: I agree :-)01:06
hapk-s: and I'd like to listen to them from canola, but thoses mp3 urls changes all the time01:06
AndyCapc0ffee: perhaps not exactly a feature, but  I don't miss it. :P01:06
hapit's not like a radio url which never changes01:06
hapso i don't want to manualy add each mp3 within the iRadios01:06
hap(you do understand why :)01:06
k-shap: why don't you have this server to generate a podcast-like XML with your songs?01:06
k-shap: or use upnp, daap, ...01:07
hapk-s: well m3u works fine until now, i have xspf too, is that better?01:09
hapwhy would podcast like XML fix my question, does canola understand them?01:09
Stregand from what i can assume from that one canola-ui video I saw, IT OS email team should learn something about list-handling and such :)01:09
hapStreg: they have all to learn to my beleif01:10
hapnot only for lists01:10
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StregI've talked to one subcontracted developer that worked with mediaplayer, and even he thought that it ended up being a piece of crap :)01:13
b0unc3hi, when I try yo upload a packages to the maemo extra repository I get this error: Unknown upload method: scp01:14
b0unc3someone know how to resolve ?01:14
hapStreg: i'm not surprised, and on the UI side, so much to sya...01:15
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StregWell I think their whole model around 770/N800 has been about cheap hardware and mediocre software. They hope us linux hapsters will make it work eventually :)01:17
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hapi would also define N800 as "a great piece of hardware, with a not as great as it could/should be software"01:18
Stregbut overall I don't complain, this device has made my life a lot more interesting and even fun :)01:19
hapwithin 2 days of use, I didn't understand at all why it was so difficult to copy text in a browser or editor, etc01:19
hapwell i'd wish all the things listed was fixed.01:19
hapdrag&drop for icons would be awesome, to change thoses top left icons01:19
hapoptimizing the screen to not lose width would be great too01:20
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dolfuni just got to get my n770 going as a front end to my vdr01:22
dolfunand i'll be a happy cow01:22
dolfunif anyone has opinions what would be a better backend to use for streaming to mplayer (mythtv or vdr), i'd be curious :)01:23
MoRpHeUzdolfun: well, there are some options..01:25
dolfunyes i am deluged with options :)01:25
MoRpHeUzdolfun: you can use vlc (videolan) to stream and also do the transcode..01:25
MoRpHeUzand soon we'll have something for mythtv ;-)01:26
MoRpHeUzdolfun: http://gmyth.sf.net01:26
dolfuni was going to do the trnascoding from a web page... ooh01:26
MoRpHeUzdolfun: check my blog...there you can find some options that work for n800+vlc01:27
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* dolfun salutes01:27
dolfunso you will use mediaplayer to play the stream?  or mplayer01:28
dolfuncause mplayer can play mpeg2 just fine as i found -but not at full PAL01:29
MoRpHeUzdolfun: you mean, with gmyth ?01:30
MoRpHeUzor vlc ?01:30
dolfuni mean local files on the n77001:30
dolfunbut you would need to transcode anyway, to the correct resolution01:31
MoRpHeUzthat's the point..01:31
dolfunthanks for the news... getting back to work01:33
MoRpHeUzdolfun: you're welcome =)01:33
Stregwhat is the software/design included in N800 that is copyrighted by: "NVIDIA design patents"?01:35
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jonnylambwhat does "haf" stand for (i saw it here:
k-shap: about podcast, upnp or daap: yes we support them01:44
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cesman MoRpHeUz how are things coming along?!!01:50
MoRpHeUzcesman: hi! how are you ?01:51
MoRpHeUzcesman: doing a lot of things..01:51
cesmangood thanks and u?01:51
MoRpHeUzfine thanks...01:51
MoRpHeUzsome status: doing some patchs for mythtv's backend to support remote transcoding..01:51
MoRpHeUzand we'll have a code camp with a guy from mythtv regarding livetv transcoding..01:52
cesmanwhich version is goign to be patched?01:53
MoRpHeUzI'm working with the svn version...01:54
ocnarfid8GAIM on the N800, am I missing how to IM someone by clicking on there name, or is going to the menu to send a new message the only way to initiate a convo?01:54
cesmanMoRpHeUz: any plans to backport to -fixes01:54
MoRpHeUzcesman: and it depends on getting this patch accepted by mythtv's crew ;-)01:55
MoRpHeUzprobably the same patch would work to other versions of mythtv..01:55
k-sbye guys01:56
k-scanola testers: please check canola-conf, I've added some extra checks in URL (iradio, podcast, photocast) parsers, it may deny some of your feeds01:57
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MoRpHeUzsee you guys02:00
MoRpHeUzcesman: anything just morpheuz@gmail.com02:00
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Com1can you fit internettablettalk web-site into the topic?03:24
Com1just an idea03:24
konfoocanola on n800. beautiful..03:24 have N800?03:25
garrettoh? really?03:25
konfook-s just posted the url :)03:25
* garrett looks03:25
konfooit works. :)03:25
konfoocom1 yes03:26
Com1i got Fceu NES EMU working03:26
Com1i'm sure they will get the speed up in later versions03:26
Com1has anyone made a video capture util yet?03:27
Com1palm. :p     try multitasking on Palm.03:28
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TakCom1: speed and sound are *way* better on the next release03:56
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Takplus there are more buttons, it autosaves if the device goes down, and it pauses when the device goes inactive04:15
Com1would have been awesome if the built-in chess game supported IP internet play, so as to talk with other N800 users04:15
Com1that would have been awesome to talk/play with other N800 owners04:16
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Com1N800 Development is moving faster than i thought04:24
Com1i'm glad I waited for the N800, rather than buy the 77004:25
Com1i was about to buy Palm TX04:25
Com1when i already have Palm Tungsten T204:26
Com1which didn't make much sense04:26
Com1bigger screen and wi-fi04:26
Com1wooopdeeee doooo04:26
bhimaCan't the 770 and N800 emulate a Palm anyway?04:30
jaebirdk-s: just tried the beta2 canola...looks good, UI question, it doesn't minimize and if I use the home key I cant get back to canola, just a black screen04:31
jaebirdhad to do a kill -8 to close it :)04:31
Takhmm - is red pill access different on the n800?04:37
disqTak: no. delete the http://, type matrix, hit cancel.04:39
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* Tak tries again04:43
Protocol-shouldn't the rd mode be enabled?04:44
Protocol-to get the pill choice04:44
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Takhm - does canola detect ogg videos?04:49
disqProtocol-: no04:50
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[mbm]hmm, sys:magic doesn't honor dpkg holds04:54
[mbm]shame.. getting rather sick of that broken busybox04:55
Protocol-I'm trying to boot from the mmc card, when the UI starts I get a message 'cannot start not enough memory' what could it be? the swap missing?04:55
Protocol-with n770 and gregale04:55
Protocol-I tried disabling some init scripts but I'm not sure what I can safely remove04:57
Protocol-also.. after that the screen goes all white, the pointer doesn't move and after a few sec it reboots04:57
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Protocol-on the mmc there is only one partition, ext3, I changed in the in initfs to reflect this, it seems to load the modules and mount the root correctly04:59
Takanybody playing ogg video on an IT?04:59
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Protocol-every video I tried runs too slow on the n77005:00
Protocol-I think that's why they added some cpu power on the n800?05:01
[mbm]n800 still struggles with most video formats05:02
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Com1Real Video plays well on N80005:46
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Tak|770wow, that's ... surprising05:47
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konfoohmmmm so what other n800 apps can i not afford to do without06:44
* Tak|770 shrugs06:47
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Tak|770so what's the best way to test a home applet with minimal risk of endless reboot cycle ?07:12
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disqi think the simplest way is to test it in scratchbox (or boot from mmc?)07:16
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Tak|770heh, I'm having issues with af-sb-init in sb07:20
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konfooCom1: find any other playable emus?07:41
gpdso if i do apt-get -s dist-upgrade i get this:07:50
gpdThe following NEW packages will be installed: bsdutils e2fslibs e2fsprogs libblkid1 libcomerr2 libss2 libuuid1 slang1a-utf807:50
gpdwhat is the #07:50
Tak|770wish me luck...07:50
gpdthose are all from - so they should be safe - right?07:50
gpdi am still paranoid about apt-get dist-upgrade07:50
Tak|770I thought you weren't supposed to apt-get upgrade07:51
gpdthat is why i am paranoid -- probably with reason07:52
gpdbut they are NEW - rather than upgrade - so should be ok07:52
gpdthen again - should probably just put down the crack pipe07:52
Tak|770hmm - obviously I'm missing some key detail08:01
suihkulokkigpd: is not meant for product images, it's meant for developer images08:05
Tak|770grr - the applet ui doesn't load08:08
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kulvegpd: what suihkulokki is saying is, "no, they are not safe"08:15
kulveIts pretty safe to install a normal GUI application that doesn't try to mess with lower levels and is at least somewhat tested. But installing anything low-level stuff might cause harm, directly or indirectly. So in the latter case one should a) be willing to happily re-flash the thing after bootloop b) really know what he is doing08:18
kulvethere's no point upgrading busybox to get ping and then curse the device doesn't boot any more08:19
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tko :)08:29
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kulveperl \o/08:38
zuh"My GOD, it's full of 'car's" :D08:42
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timelessi have a problem10:30
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timelesspeople are building source packages10:31
timelessand they have symlinks to files that wouldn't normally exist if the world looked differently10:31
timelessif i make a source package, should 'depcomp' be a symlink or a real file?10:32
kulveseems to be a file in my source package10:32
kulvei.e. a regular file, not a link10:33
* timeless wonders why there are so many people from .fi here10:34
tigertwhy is it a surprise? :)10:36
timelessi'll explain elsewhere..10:36
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zbenjaminmorning @ all10:38
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tigerthad fun with dynadraw? :)10:48
tigertits addictive :P10:49
zbenjaminis it okay that i have two maemo_af_desktop processes running on my Nokia770 with IT2006?10:49
disqhad fun with qgn_ hildon icons and also gtktextbuffer right now. didn't get addicted to dynadraw :)10:50
timelesszbenjamin: no10:51
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zbenjaminstrange i have two maemo_af_desktop  and two hildon-input-method and some other processes running twice10:52
timelesswhen it happens, rel engineering fail change requests10:52
timelesscan you figure out what you did to trigger it?10:52
zbenjamini did a restart a few seconds ago. It seems they get started when booting.10:53
disqsomething weird happened to me on my 770. its batt was depleted, i plugged in the charger and turned it on. after booting the battery icon wouldn't come up (and also radio didn't work)10:53
disqi hard booted and left it to charge, now it's working again10:54
zuhzbenjamin: The other one is most likely the maemo-invoker binary...10:54
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zbenjaminzuh, so its okay for all processes that started with maemo-invoker10:55
zuhzbenjamin: Yes10:56
zuhAlso for multi-thread apps of course10:56
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timelessoh, yeah, be sure you aren't confusing threads w/ processes10:58
timelesstop and friends on "old" systems generally get this "wrong"10:58
zbenjamini used ps aux to get running processes10:59
timelessthat doesn't do what you think10:59
zbenjamintimeless, ?11:00
zbenjamini get it also with ps -A11:01
timelesshold on11:01
zbenjaminand with top11:02
timelessthe problem is that well err11:02
timelessunix wasn't really designed for threads11:02
zuhzbenjamin: if you are using the busybox ps, it simply ignores any arguments...11:02
timelessand the tools weren't designed for them11:02
timelessand the users weren't designed for them11:02
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zbenjaminhm afaik threads and processes are handled from the kernel the same way11:03
zbenjaminnearly the same way11:03
timelessthat's the problem11:03
Veggenhmmf. A string that can attach the stylus to the tablet would be a good thing.11:03
Veggen<--left the stylus at home, again ;)11:03
timelessit makes it very hard for people to understand that a11:03
timelessveggen: use a pen(cil)11:04
timelessor an eraser, or a paperclip11:04
zbenjamintimeless, it seems that the half of your message gets eaten11:04
Veggentimeless: yah, doable.11:04
timelesszbenjamin: because threads and processes aren't very distinct11:04
timelesswhich makes it hard for an old thing like 'ps' to explain or even recognize that a process is a process or just some other thread in a process11:05
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zbenjaminare there any tools who are aware of proc and threads?11:06
suihkulokkips -eLf11:06
timelesszbenjamin: i task switch, based on interrupts, your request requires more work, which means i flush and cycle before completing it11:06
tigertps -axe is very efficient in chopping wood11:07
timelessyeah, -L will explain LWPs11:07
wumpusit's very efficient in destroying wood if yo uprint the output on paper :P11:07
tigerttigert@kryptonite:~$ ps axe | wc -l11:07
timelesswumpus: i hope most people don't do that :)11:07
tigertthis is a stock ubuntu desktop with just few terminals11:07
timeless% ps -eL|grep fire11:08
timeless18181     1 ?           0:00 firefox11:08
timeless18204     1 ?          48:09 firefox-11:08
timeless18204     2 ?           0:11 firefox-11:08
tigertprinter tty would be fun11:08
timeless(the first firefox is a shell script, the second is the main thread, the third is probably the timer thread)11:08
wumpusnaah, it's not that scary, most processes and threads are in S state anyway11:08
wumpusworst are background processes that are continuously in running state (like firefox sometimes), or those that wake up and poll all the time11:10
timelesswumpus; um11:10
wumpuslike some "energy saving" daemons in linux :/11:10
timelessthe only thread i have in firefox that has used real cpu time is the main one11:10
zbenjamini've seen that for firefox too11:10
timelessit's used 48mins11:10
Magidamn the n800 is unstable, got a reboot by changing radio channel, sometimes it reboots just by itself11:10
tigertMagi: the funny part is,11:11
wumpusbut it's probably the fault of the sites, some use stupid polling/looping java scripts11:11
tigertit never reboots on me when I use it11:11
tigertbut it does it all by itself on the desk11:11
wumpusMagi: probably you triggered the lifeguard?11:11
tigertI think it might be something related to power management11:11
wumpusacroread is a common "heavy" process too11:11
Magiwumpus: don't know what happened, the reboots seem more or less random11:11
timelessmagi: there should be logs in /var/ftd-log/syslog or /var/ftd-log/log/syslog (?)11:12
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wumpusbut powersaved was worst, on my dual core opteron it held one core for 100% all the time11:12
timelessmagi: and there's a /proc/bootreason (?)11:12
wumpusyeah, that got to save power :P11:12
Magilet's see...11:12
tigertwumpus: it saved power for seti@home? :)11:12
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wumpushehe I think so :)11:13
Magitimeless: says "32wd_to"11:13
tigerttimeless: my device has always done the reboots when idle11:13
* tigert thinks he'll go Talk To Eero(tm)11:13
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timelessyou can google for "32wd_to" :)11:13
X-Fadetigert: They say it is already fixed internally..11:13
X-FadeSo the next release will have a fix for that.11:13
X-Fade"Release often, release early" is not something they like @ Nokia :)11:14
timelesstigert: always a good choice :)11:14
timelessx-fade: well, it's a management heavy system11:14
timelessbut that's not accurate11:14
Magitimeless: yeah, it seems to be a known problem...11:14
X-Fadetimeless: Yeah, I understand that it needs to go through QA.11:14
timelessthere's a shipping version and a version designed to ship over the shipping version11:14
X-Fadeand legal and..11:15
timelesswhich is generally available at ship time11:15
melmothBtw, how are release managed, shall we use apt-get update, or wait untill a new rootfs should be flashed ?11:15
timelessso they release the final version "early"11:15
timelessand if you count the first service release and check the interval, they ship "often" :)11:15
X-Fadetimeless: I hope that the new updates via AI can get those updates out earlier..11:15
X-FadeSo the 'community' can beta test images..11:15
wumpusyeah that'd be nice11:16
wumpusI don't use my n800 for officiel stuff anyway so I wouldn't mind doing a bit beta testing11:16
wumpusand good thing it's always possible to flash back the old image :)11:16
X-FadeSomething that is more like 'testing' in debian. Quite up-to-date but not broken or high probability of being broken like sardine*.11:17
wumpusalready did that once11:17
timelessx-fade: i'm sure the open source devs who work for nokia would like to change the process11:17
wumpusit should be at least in functional state otherwise 'testing' makes no sense11:17
X-Fadetimeless: Yep, I'm sure are least some do :)11:17
wumpusthen again it's really great nokia is doing something like this at all11:18
X-Fadetimeless: I don't think there is a problem with all people @ Nokia that communicate with us. They all know. It is about all the others hidden away behind the big wall of Nokia..11:19
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wumpusso I'm not complaining :)11:19
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timelessx-fade: it's more the wall itself than any specific people11:20
X-Fadetimeless: Yeah, the inability to reach planners/designers etc.11:20
timelessx-fade: too many stupid deadlines/tasks11:21
timelessway too many things that need fixing11:21
X-Fadetimeless: I know this is still a new project. You have to fight battles at every front there is. But that will settle down eventually.11:21
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timelessthat's someone's hope11:22
* timeless frowns11:22
* timeless hates trying to build svn11:22
X-FadeSymbian didn't get to where it is today in about 1 year :)11:22
X-FadeGive it time..11:23
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zbenjamincan i use the debian init.d skeleton for building a init.d script for maemo?11:36
c0ffeei'm not sure whether start-stop-daemon is installed thou11:42
c0ffeebut in general, it's just a debian init.d11:42
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zbenjaminyes start-stop-daemon is installed11:43
wumpusyup it is there11:45
jacqueshmm, the new mplayer is better and worse on N80011:45
jacquesbetter framerate, worse in that when I stopped the video I could not get it to go away - it was on top of everything else, menus appeared behind it. I had to power cycle.11:46
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wumpusI'm still using the built in video player, but it seems to get audio and video out of sync sometimes11:47
wumpusand can just hang11:47
wumpusis mplayer better?11:47
jacquesit plays more formats for one thing11:48
wumpusthat doesn't really matter that much to me, I transcode the movies specifically for my N80011:48
wumpusalthough I have a 2Gb MMC now so I guess I could fit them entirely, but that's be taxing for the limited CPU power11:49
floriangood morning11:50
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lardmanmorning all11:54
jacquesmorning lardman11:55
lardmanhi jacques11:55
tigertMDK: food?11:56
zuhtigert: no, it's a game11:56
lardmanzuh: Not sure what was wrong with your vfp libm11:58
kulvelardman: we know it now..11:58
lardmankulve: What was the problem?11:59
zuh./configure --disable-vfp in debian/rules :P11:59
kulve --without-fp to be precise12:00
lardmanstrange, I guess that must have been in mine too. I wonder why it got overridden12:00
kulveno, that's not in debian/rules12:01
kulveI don't know yet where it comes, but it's given to configure12:01
lardmandid you use the source & debian stuff tarball from
lardmanso did I12:02
lardmanhmm, I should check my config.log12:02
kulvethat's where I found that that option was used..12:03
kulvelibc_extra_config_options = $(extra_config_options) --without-fp --with-tls --without-__thread --disable-force-install12:03
lardmanAre you using the bora scratchbox setup?12:04
lardmanas I'm using the previous one12:04
lardmanperhaps some difference to the scripts caused by that. I can't think of any other reason why it wouldn't happen to me too12:04
lardmanI'm using 2.3.612:05
lardmanI think12:05
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lardmanah no, just confused. I used this source:
MDKtigert: a sec12:06
kulvelardman: same here12:07
lardmankulve: I'll take a look at my config.log when I head home for lunch12:07
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AD-N770good morning12:09
tigertnew version (very small updates)12:09
tigertnext thing is to put this in garage12:09
disqtried plankton last night and really liked it12:11
MDKtigert: ok12:12
tigertMDK: we should perhaps see eero as well about the reboots12:12
MDKtigert: coming to you12:13
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melmothany idea how can i ask a gtk texview not to try to select text when the user click on it ?12:22
jtramelmoth: perhaps set its event mask not to include clicking12:24
disqmelmoth: try making it non editable?12:25
disqmelmoth: or you could hook "mark_set" and if there's a selection simply unselect it?12:26
melmothit is already non editable actually.12:28
melmothhmm, i do not know about mark_set, i ll try to play with this.12:29
melmothjtra:i need clicking (but i want the textview to scroll when clicked and pushed, not to try to select)12:29
disqi'm playing with a textview/textbuffer myself right now. mark_set stuff works, though i never tried unselecting the selection12:30
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bedboiis skype video going to be shipped with next bora imageS?12:30
disqi'm using mark_set event to toggle style buttons (bold/italic/etc) on the toolbar depending on the cursor position12:30
cybergyp1ytigert: nice theme!12:31
jtramelmoth: hm, what about wrapping textview in some scrollview, textview would have clicking disabled in mask, scrollview woud have it enabled and there would be code to do drag scrolling12:33
melmothi dont know, will have to try :) i m playing with mark_set for now.12:34
melmothbtw this is
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melmothi m trying to make things in motion_notify12:36
melmothhmmm, looks like it works wiht mark_set chnaging the selection.12:53
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zbenjaminwhere to place my icon for a control panel applet?13:08
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zbenjamini created a desktop file for my control panel applet and added the icon into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/incon.png but it cannot find it. Do i have to take care of something else?13:35
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* zbenjamin needs help13:46 it works ... without changes.13:47
* zbenjamin is confused13:47
inzDid you reboot or sth?13:48
inzI think the pixmaps in /usr/share/icons need to be in cache files13:48
melmothi m confused as well,i never managed to make this icons thingy to work..Except the tutorial example :)13:48
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kulveAt some point at least I deleted the cache (/usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache) before running the update-thing. Not sure if that's needed anymore13:57
inzkulve, I'm using -f (force) in my .postinst13:58
melmothI wonder..can i take a picture with the n800 camera ?13:58
inzkulve, in IT2006 at least it was needed13:58
inzmelmoth, should be doable with v4l2 api13:59
kulvequick hack camera app :)13:59
kulvenot really usefull yet, even though it can be used to take a shot and it is save to Images14:00
inzkulve, does it use unicap?14:00
kulveit doesn't even flip the camera, if you turn the camera away (need to change v4l2src to gconfv4l2src in gst)14:01
kulveinz: unicap?14:01
inzkulve, Unicap is a library to access different kinds of video capture devices. Currently supported ( more or less ) are: v4l, v4l2, IIDC 1394 cameras and a video to firewire converter.14:01
inzkulve, it's for gtk214:01
kulvewe use just gst. And probably not in a very smart way..14:02
inzhmm, unicap It doesn't support gstreamer, so it's might not be that smart14:03
lardmankoen: ping14:06
koenlardman: pong14:06
lardmankoen: Regarding the flag, scroll back to 09:58 this morning14:06
lardmanah, that my be GMT14:06
koen[10:59] zuh: ./configure --disable-vfp in debian/rules14:07
koen[11:00] kulve: --without-fp to be precise14:07
koenOE does it automagically the right way when TARGET_FPU has been properly set14:07
kulveyeah, maemo doesn't :)14:08
lardmanMine also seemed to work without issues, not sure why as we did the same things afaict14:08
lardman(in scratchbox that is for me)14:08
kulveglibc-2.3.5cs2005q3.2] > cat debian/sysdeps/armel.mk14:09
kulvelibc_extra_config_options = $(extra_config_options) --without-fp --with-tls --without-__thread --disable-force-install14:09
kulveI think it's set there14:09
zbenjamininz,  yes i had to reboot14:16
zbenjamincan someone help me with this error? checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.14:16
zbenjaminIf you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.14:16
zbenjamini'm trying to build maemo-af-desktop and ARM target14:17
zbenjaminusing this command:  DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=maemo-launcher dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot14:17
zbenjaminit worked before updating to the new scratchbox14:17
kulvequick hack try: remove --host and --build options from the configure line in debian/rules14:18
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zbenjaminkulve, same error14:20
kulvethen add them back..14:21
kulvedo you use any special gcc options?14:21
kulveactually the config.log should so the real reason14:21
zbenjamini changed nothing in the build scripts just added some functionality to maemo_af_desktop14:22
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zbenjaminkulve, after putting them back in i get new errors  make[1]: Entering directory `/home/zbenjamin/maemoit2006'14:25
zbenjaminmake[1]: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.14:25
zbenjaminmake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/zbenjamin/maemoit2006'14:25
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zbenjaminkulve, it seems that the script now doesn't create a makefile14:32
Guardianwhat would you use for command line parsing ? getopt ? glib ? popt ?14:32
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RobHuYay my N800 has arrived \o/14:39
zbenjaminwhen installing a scratchbox target do i have to install devkit debian or debian-sarge?14:39
RobHuAm I right in thinking I need to check compatability for 4GB and 8GB cards? ... and that I might need a new kernel that support SHDC (or something) ? Is there a way about this where I could RTFM? Any card recommendations?14:40
Stregnon shdc 4gb cards are reported to work on some occasions.14:41
RobHuAlso this looks bad: W: GPG error: bora Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG CBFC2BECC6903E72 Nokia Internet Tablet Archive Automatic Signing Key <>14:43
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RobHuCan anyone recommend 4GB or 8GB cards?14:46
wumpusI went with a 2GB card just to be on the safe side14:47
wumpus4gb are officielly not supported, let alone 8gb ones14:47
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RobHuStreg: Thanks14:54
RobHuI also found this thread:
hapis osso-xterm 0.13.mh19bora1 the last version available?15:00
hapis maemo-gaim available for n800 yet ?15:01
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inzhap, the mistral version works fine15:09
Streghap: it "works", but I found using jabber with ICQ/MSN transports a way better solution15:09
inzI agree on that, jabbet transports are nicer15:10
inzEspecially after I set up my own trasnport which wasn't nearly as laggy as the one I first tried15:10
hapStreg: you mean using the google talk client, adding accounts there?15:10
Stregcontrol panel -> accounts -> new15:13
Stregan you'll have to enable transports on the web....15:14
inzOr using psi or something15:14
Stregi used and it works pretty well (I live in Finland)15:16
Stregbut beware, removing those transports is harder than one might think :)15:16
StregI decided to use a separate MSN account with N800.15:17
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JaffaExcellent, step one of test MUD repository (for crap which doesn't get uploaded to extras and as a testing ground is complete):
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kkitodid someone try the quake2 package?15:43
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JaffaGah, app manager doesn't like 302 redirects.16:11
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JaffaLong-standing Debian bug: "apt does not handle HTTP redirects":
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RobHuHow do I install something where it says 'install missing' ? I thought it might be in the apt sources but I can't find it with apt-cache (I'm trying to get GnomeSword)16:25
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RobHuI can't find it on the homepage either you see16:25
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melmothRobHu: i doubt gnomesword will work16:55
melmoththere are too many dependencies on gnome itself16:55
melmothbut but... there is rapier :)16:55
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melmothIf you are the one currently donwloading the stuff, be sure to also take clucene-core, wont work16:55
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melmothyou are welcome.16:58
RobHuok great, thanks16:59
kkitodid someone try the quake2 package?17:01
Taknot yet17:01
Takdoes it run on 770? ;-)17:01
etrunkokkito: link17:02
kkitoTak, no only on n80017:02
kkitoI want to know if the package installs and run ok before submit the package to the maemo garage17:03
etrunkokkito: link?17:03
RobHumelmoth: I can't install python :(
Com1how possible would it be to Overclock 770 or m800 CPU's??17:05
melmothstrange RobHu it worked out of the box here (once i added the repository in sources.list)17:05
melmothand i bet you did as well, otherwise it woudl have told you there is no such package as python2.5-runtime17:05
RobHumelmoth: Could you post your sources.list for me please?17:06
melmothBut just for teh sake of being sure..couble check you have 'deb bora free non-free ' in /etc/apt/sources.list17:06
etrunkokkito: downloading17:07
melmothRobHu: on scratchbox i have:17:08
melmothdeb bora free non-free extras17:08
melmothdeb-src bora free non-free extras17:08
melmothdeb file:/home/melmoth/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_3.0 bora explicit17:08
melmothdeb bora free non-free17:08
melmoththe last line is the one for python2.517:09
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RobHuThis is my sources.list
melmothwell, the line is there.17:10
sKaBoyyou don't have the main repository, try to add it17:10
melmothThere is no comment on top of it though.I m not sure if this could be the problem...17:10
etrunkoRobHu: add deb bora free non-free17:10
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RobHuaha! thanks etrunko17:11
etrunkoRobHu: np17:11
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RobHuHow can I get wget and busybox on there?17:12
etrunkokkito: installed, but what is the binary?17:12
melmothRobHu: wget is ported.17:12
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kkitoetrunko, you need the quake2 data files17:13
kkitothe binary is in /opt/maemo-quetoo/bin17:14
RobHuported? apt-cache search doesn't find it, and as I remember trying the .install from the website gave an error17:14
RobHuI'll try that again17:14
kkitorun the game with /opt/maemo-quetoo/bin/maemo-quetoo.sh17:14
kkitothe quake2 data files (baseq2 dir) must to be installed in /media/mmc1/quake217:14
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RobHuApplication manager says: Unable to install. Application package is incompatible with current software.17:16
melmothRobHu: wich package are you trying to install ?17:16
RobHuThe one from It says it is for OS 200617:17
melmothThings are easier once you have a xterm and an ssh access to the n80017:17
RobHuI have ssh access17:17
RobHuapt-cache search wget doesnt find it17:17
kkitoyou can download the quake2 demo there
RobHuIs there a repository I should have in my sources.list?17:17
JaffaRobHu: some packages which aren't intended for installing directly can't be installed through the application manager.17:17
disqget 3.20 if possible17:18
JaffaRobHu: You might just have to use `apt-get' from the command line.17:18
bipolarI hope gaim updated for 2007 soon17:18
RobHuPackage wget is not available, but is referred to by another package.17:20
RobHuThis may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or17:20
RobHuis only available from another source17:20
RobHuE: Package wget has no installation candidate17:20
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melmothRobHu: download it , adn install it with dpkg17:22
melmothi do not remember form where i downloaded it..but here it is
melmothOh, i think it comes from here
RobHumelmoth: Are you the guy behind Rapier?17:23
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RobHuI was surprised to find that the ESV is available as a module. I thought only out of copyright Bible versions were available.17:25
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melmothi m not aware there is a copyright on ESV.17:25
melmothI use NIV (wich is not available for copyright reason :( ) when reading in english.17:26
melmothand kjv on my n800 :)17:26
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Com1ok, bible is now avail on N800?17:26
RobHuYeah there is17:26
RobHuoh I was saying yeah to copyright on the ESV17:26
RobHubut yes to the other question17:26
RobHuCom1: melmoth is the author17:27
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tigertits good nobody has patented the idea of an electronic bible :)17:27
tigertas far as I think at least17:27
tigertyou never know though17:27
* Tak files a patent17:27
RobHumelmoth: Why don't you use the ESV? It's considered to be a better translation than the NIV.17:27
lardmankkito: Is there a demo mode on Quake2?17:28
Com1i don't use niv17:28
melmothbecuase i m not aware of it :) I spent some years in england, and churches i went to all used NIV, so i know this one.17:28
kkitoi dont try with the demo data files, but i think that if you copy the demo data files to the correct dir (/media/mmc1/quake2) the game works17:29
melmothi think i try out ESV with rapier, but i was dissapointed by all the references appearing as text .17:29
RobHuMost churches use NIV that's true.17:29
lardmankkito: I was just wondering how one measures how well the game is running, etc.?17:29
RobHuA lot of Evangelical churches sometimes use the ESV, and encourage people to use it.17:29
RobHuSome CofE churches use GNB17:30
RobHualthough they have to be quite fluffy to do that17:30
melmothBtw, this page ( show a script that should one let legally create sword module for such translation as NIV17:30
RobHuAre you a Christian melmoth ?17:30
melmothscrapping some web site to do so.but i did not suceed in generating niv here. If you do, tell me how please :)17:30
kkitolardman, i dont understand you sorry :( You want to look the game running a demo?17:30
Com1oh my......i don't want to install xterm or python yet. =o(17:31
melmothRobHu: yes (otherwise i would have started another project :) )17:31
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RobHuCom1: Why not?17:31
Com1fear of constant reboot17:31
Takwhat does that have to do with xterm?17:31
RobHuCom1: Python and xterm wont do that17:32
Com1N800 Development is moving faster than i thought17:34
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Com1i work  in a computer store in nyc, and we SOLD out our initial order of N800's (100 pieces) less than a week17:36
Com1alot of corporate orders17:36
Com1lots of business , wall-street types buying it17:36
Com1we do alot of orders via the web too.17:37
lardmankkito: I was wondering whether vfp libm would speed the game up17:38
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lardmankkito: So I wanted a quantitative way of judging the performance17:38
Com1Stupid question: how possible would it be to Overclock 770 or m800 CPU's??17:38
RobHuCom1: I don't personally know, but I'm interested in why you would want to.17:39
kkitolardman, i compiled the sources using the mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp flags17:40
inzI'm more interested how come someone is afraid of python and xterm, but wants to oc the device17:41
Com1maybe it would solve alot of these "slow" problems17:41
lardmankkito: If it uses any functions from libm (e.g. trig functions), using vfp libm may speed it up more17:41
RobHuCom1: Slow? What is slow for you?17:41
Com1Overclocking worked for Palm17:41
Com1no, no17:41
Com1not me17:41
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Takyeah, I want to add liquid cooling and clock my 770 up to 2GHz17:41
Com1everything's fine17:41
Com1i'm content17:41
Com1ok, make fun....but i am serious17:42
Takactually I wasn't trying to make fun of you17:42
RobHuwah, no emacs. Has anyone ported emacs yet?17:43
Takiirc someone has ported zile17:43
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kkitolardman, i think that it uses its own trig implementation17:44
lardmankkito: I was wondering about that17:44
kkitothe id software quake2 trigonometric implementation17:44
lardmanfast and dirty17:44
Com1youtube quake2 on N800 = video17:46
Com1accept it17:46
bipolarCom1: hey... great to hear. I'm glad to know the 800 is doing that well in sales. (yeah, I'm a bit late to comment)17:47
kkitothe game is playable at 400x240 resolution at 15-20 fps...17:48
Com1yeah, we re-ordered 3 times since it came out17:48
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kkitowith a 800x480 res it isnot playable.17:48
Com1to keep up with demand17:48
Taknow if only there was a pixel doubling hack ;-)17:48
* Tak prods ssvb 17:48
Com1our buyer is keeping a good lookout on that unit17:48
ssvbTak: a new weekend is coming, I'm sure I'll have something interesting to show on Monday :)17:50
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bipolarAre any of the EDS port devs here?17:54
konfoohas anyone compiled frotz for the n80017:56
bipolarhmm... I wonder if gnumeric and abiword have been ported yet....17:58
konfoobtw what packaging system is everyone using nowadays17:58
c0ffeesomebody managed to compile osso-email?17:58
Takpackaging system?17:59
konfooi really need to package up some of my binaries17:59
konfooTak: .deb automator for bora, etc17:59
Takyou mean like mud-builder?  or like dh_make ?17:59
konfoolike mud builder17:59
Takafaik mud-builder is it17:59
dolfunabiword?  sweet17:59
konfooheh ok18:00
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dolfunkonfoo, i think there was a frotz like interpreter18:00
kkitoetrunko, did the quake2 run on your n800?18:02
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* dolfun \o/s for q2 on n80018:08
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disqgah. i've been playing with gtktextview and friends for the last 10 hours or so18:10
lardmanI see that Quetoo says this: "Dramatic performance increases through proper removal of dynamic lighting, polyblend and other "candy" features."18:10
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lardmanshame we don't have working powervr mbx to allow us to use the "candy features" ;)18:10
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RobHulardman: So the graphics chip in the n800 supports more stuff, but TI wont tell anyone how to use it / provide a driver?18:17
bipolardolfun: I havn't been able to find a working package for abiword18:18
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bipolardolfun: all I found was this (at the bottom):
lardmanRobHu: Not sure who's supposed to write the drivers. Imagination Technologies who license the chip don't give out technical info to end users18:19
RobHulardman: Why haven't Nokia sorted this out? Surely they would want the n800 to support this stuff?18:19
dolfunhah i just made another n800 customer in irc18:20
dolfunviral marketing :D18:20
lardmanRobHu: I would think so so. I'd also expect that Ti would want it working to show how great their OMAP is18:20
RobHulardman: Why do you think it hasn't happened then? Do you think it will happen in the future?18:20
kkitooffcourse with the powervr support whe can have quake2 at fullspeed with fancy effects and i think that quake3 will be possible too....18:21
kkitoof course :P18:21
lardmanRobHu: I don't know. I would like to know whether this issue is lack of developers on the Nokia side, or a hold-up/cost issue related to Imagination Technologies18:21
dolfunthe marketing men seem to be ignoring the n800's general purpose potential and positioning it the way they did the 77018:22
dolfunso if the marketing men say "this is not applicable to our target customer base" nokia won't invest resources in supporting performance features18:22
lardmanImagination Technologies (ImTec from now on, too much typing ;) ) have produced a Linux driver for the 2.6.x kernels for the pepperpad218:22
RobHulardman: Is it similar enough that it could be made to work on the n800 do you think?18:23
lardmandolfun: That's possible, but I'd have thought Nokia would benefit from a snazzy GUI if they used its abilities18:23
dolfuni am on the geek side and think that making a more 'kick ass' product has long run benefits18:23
lardmanRobHu: Doubt it. It's the mbx lite version, plus I imagine there are hw specifics in it18:23
kkitothe lite version is more powerful than the mbx18:24
lardmanRobHu: But it's obviously possible to obtain a driver, I just don't know how & who has to ask18:24
lardmankkito: No, I don't think so18:24
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lardman vs
kkitoyes the mbx has more power than the lite version :P18:27
dolfunnokia has to start thinking of it more as a 'Swiss Army Knife' in your pocket.  that is how they can differentiate their product best.18:27
lardmanwell they may think that way already, but lack resources (developers, money) to implement things like this.18:28
lardmanIt would be nice for us to know either way18:28
kulveit can also be that would need to pay something to imtec to use their chip..18:28
kulvejust guessing18:28
lardmanThe demos they show use Quake 3 iirc18:29
lardmankulve: Indeed, not to use it, but for them to develop the driver I suppose18:29
lardmankulve: Again, would be nice to know if this is the problem, & how much it would cost18:29
kulvewell, a bit pointless to speculate since we don't have any facts :)18:30
lardmanwhat else are Friday afternoons for?!18:30
kulvelardman: I mailed the imtec and they said they "are actively discussing this issue with Nokia and 3rd parties to find a solution."18:31
kkitowell here we have the peeperpad powervr driver ...
lardmankulve: Well that may be a promising sign :)18:32
kkitoit seems that it has the gpl license?! then.. Where is the source code!18:32
lardmankkito: Ask away ;)18:32
kulvelardman: it may, but on the other hand, it was a marketing guy speakin..18:32
lardmankulve: Yeah, could be a fob-off18:32
kulveauthor=Imagination Technologies plc18:33
kulvevermagic= preempt ARMv5 gcc-3.418:33
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lardmanThere is also a 2.4.x kernel driver & sdk released on the omapgaming site for the omap 242018:35
disqmmm.. backport the n800 drivers to
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lardmanwhat version kernel is the n800?18:36
bipolardarn... no gnumerc package either18:38
lardmanhome time, have a nice weekend all18:39
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RobHumelmoth: Why are the cross references displayed as part of the text?18:42
RobHuThis is with the ESV18:42
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etrunkokkito: i don't have the files19:03
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bipolarwhere do I find the 'flasher' bin to flash a new kernel?19:21
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daveaiteljust as a funny note: writing a C compiler in Python, and then running it on the N770, is a good way to really FEEL how slow that chip is. :> Still usable, but ... visibly slow.19:24
daveaitelI wonder if there's an API exported to hildon that will play ogg files19:24
bipolarinz: wait a min... this doesn't run on the device? I'm new to this but I thought it ran on the nokia to flash a file to the firmware.19:24
daveaitelor maybe a text-to-speech API19:25
inzbipolar, the flashing is usually done from a pc19:25
bipolarinz: interesting... over USB?19:25
bipolaror IP?19:25
inzbip, USB19:25
bipolarhmmm.... ok.19:25
bipolarinz: thanks for the info :)19:26
inzbip, I'm not quite sure, perhaps you could write the kernel with dd on a running device too19:26
bipolarinz: I'll look it up. I'm coming from a Zaurus, which used a completely diffrent method19:27
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JaffaHmm, why is dpkg-buildpackage failing from one part of mud, but not another (dependency-led build vs. direct user-requested build). It makes No Sense[TM].19:28
RobHuIs there a way to change screen orientation?19:28
inzRobHu, with a patched kernel, yes19:28
Jaffaxrandr theoretically. Was got working on OS 2005 on the 770, the UI breaks somewhat.19:29
bipolarCan anyone tell me, if I upload a broken kernel to my n800 and it won't boot, can the flasher still be used to upload a working one or is my device bricked?19:30
inzbip, it can19:31
inzbip, the flashing is done before the kernel is loaded19:31
c0ffeeand even if you brick it, you can still cold-flash it using the serial port19:31
bipolarc0ffee: is there s serial port?19:32
bipolarc0ffee: usb-serial?19:32
RobHuinz: Is there a page that tells me about this you could point me to please?19:34
inzRobHu, the page is for IT2005, but I guess it's still the same19:35
c0ffeeif you open the battery cover there's a serial port next to the battery19:35
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RobHuinz: Thankyou19:37
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bipolarc0ffee: ahh... I guess I would need to put a pin header on that?19:39
c0ffeethere's some information in the wiki on the howto compile kernel page19:39
c0ffeeand some on the flasherusage page19:39
bipolarc0ffee: thats good to know. thanks!19:40
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k-sTak: awesome!19:40
Takgot me major points with teh fiancee ;-)19:40
andrunkoheh, nice19:41
k-sTak: I can imagine :-)19:41
JaffaTak: very nice19:41
Molagihmm is the any calendar app for n800?19:41
TakMolagi: there are gpe-calendar and dates19:41
JaffaMolagi: GPE Calendar, Dates, Winzig, DejaDesktop(?)19:41
Molagiis GPE calendar the best?19:42
JaffaFSVO "best", yes.19:42
Takwinzig sounds like a european metal band19:42
c0ffeewinzig means micro19:42
Molagican i get it from the garage19:42
c0ffeeit's in the kernelconcepts apt repository19:43
Molagihmm link19:43
Molagior adress to the repository19:43
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Molagicant find it :(19:52
bipolarw00t! new kernel flashed.19:52
bipolarI wish the default IM app did more then gtalk and jabber.19:53
melmothRobHu: i have no idea why are the cross references displayed in the text with ESV19:53
melmothit s not the case for other modules19:53
bipolarhaving that and gaim installed seems redundant19:53
melmothi must admit i know nearly nothing of how sword works and i learnt while writing code....19:54
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RobHuHow odd19:56
melmothyop, i do now know if the problem comes from the module or from the way i fetch the data from it.19:57
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melmoths/do now/do not/19:59
Molagihmm i added the kernelconcepts and now it says "unable to refresh list"19:59
Molagigot it working nvm20:01
tkowoo.. skating for the first time in over around six years and didn't even fall down..20:02
tkoit's like riding a bicycle :)20:02
inz...on ice20:05
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tkowell, no.. riding a bicycle on ice is not fun20:05
inzSure it is20:06
inzIt may not be safe or useful20:06
inzBut it is fun20:06
tkotoo stressful for my taste20:06
bipolarhmm... looks like someone is doing an armel port of debian20:06
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Com1ok , it seems my N800 has a protective screen film on it20:10
Com1Does any one else have it on theirs20:10
melmothi have one20:10
Com1mine came with it20:11
Com1I didn't know it20:11
Com1until now20:11
melmothme too, did not bother removed it..its transparent :)20:11
Com1yeah, but it looks scratched up20:11
Com1only had it a week20:12
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Com1that was a big complaint about the n80020:12
Takthe film that comes on it is meant to be removed20:12
Com1but I guess the same people that complained didn't realize about that protective screen20:13
Com1i'm not gonna remove it20:13
StregI removed the protection, beucause it had a big silver "handle" on it like in other nokia products where the protection is supposed to be removed20:13
Com1i don't want to mess up the original screen20:13
StregCom1:buy a protective film from ebay20:13
Com1haha, it didn't "grab" the protective screen20:13
Com1I was wondering what that little tab was for20:14
Com1i'll get it for my job20:14
Com1from my job20:14
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Com1i need ssh client20:20
Com1ssh to my IRC'd account20:20
Com1at chpass.net20:20
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bipolarthe earbuds that come with the 800, is that little box on them a microphone?20:23
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kulvebipolar: yup20:25
bipolarThe media streamer app sees my mythtv box, but doesn't show anything available on it. :p20:26
kulvethey are all ogg?20:27
bipolarkulve: no, my music is all mp320:28
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bipolarAfter installing the FM Radio app, it doesn't show up  in the menu. I am able to start it from xterm though.20:37
bipolaris it hidden somewhere?20:37
Takapplet list20:37
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bipolarI don't see it :\20:38
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tkobipolar, home applet20:39
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bipolartko: oh! I get it.20:40
bipolartko: thanks :)20:40
tkoyou should complain somewhere where the authors could see it anyhow :)20:41
kulveMaintainer: <>20:47
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kulveheh, the fmradio doesn't depend on anything, mut predepends on stuff20:48
tkooh, it actually did come with some contact information. I'm amazed20:48
kulveis that valid address? ;)20:48
tkoI didn't say 'valid contact information' did I? :)20:49
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maddler evening all...20:52
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Com1what is red-pill mode?20:58
konfooits a scary thing..20:59
maddlerheya keesj20:59
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bingohi, I'm new to N800 and meamo, I have a question that I can't found an answer: is hildon open source?21:07
kulvei.e. the hildon libs21:07
kulvewhich isn't very thick layer21:07
bingoso what is not open source on the N800?21:07
kulvewlan kernel driver, some keyboard stuff21:08
kulvethere's quite many smaller binary-only things21:08
kulvethere are..21:08
kulvesource for hildon libs etc21:09
kulvenot all sources are there though21:09
bingothat great to have a free wm like hildon! :-)21:09
tkoyou can get all the open sources from if you know where to look for, some of them are actively developed in the open21:10
tkohildon isn't really wm, we use matchbox21:10
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bingois it possible to install matchbox on the N800?21:13
tkoumm, it's preinstalled21:13
kulveit is there..21:13
kulveit's THE wm of the device..21:13
kulvehildon is just a widget set on top of GTK21:13
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kulvethe navigator part of the maemo-af-desktop does some window handling (at least keeps track of them)21:13
bingoha... ok21:14
tkohildon is both the overall look'n'feel as well as a set of common (HildonWindow, Banner) and specific (DateEditor) widgets21:14
tkoterminology overload21:14
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zuhCom1: take the protective sheet off, the real screen is much more durable than that... It won't scratch from normal usage and it's more sensitive without.21:22
Com1i will, when i get a cover for it21:23
Com1thanks zuh21:23
RobHuAre there better themes than the ones that come by detaulf with the n800?21:27
Takmy fiancee loves the valentine's theme21:27
Com1haha, there is a valentine theme21:27
Takplankton is very nice21:27
RobHuWhere can I find plankton?21:27
RobHuI can't see it with apt-cache search plankton21:29
RobHuIs there a .install somewhere?21:31
tzzrobhu: there was a post about it on planet.maemo.org21:31
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RobHutzz: thanks, I'll look for that21:31
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BrianRiceyo. i've just acquired rev's (dunno if he hung out here) old 770 and want to hack it21:33
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maddlerBrianRice: good for you! :D21:35
maddlera good start is's Wiki21:35
Takand the tutorial21:35
BrianRicei'll mostly be hacking squeak but might branch out into other things21:36
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BrianRicebtw is there an easy way to get Ctrl/Alt-modifier input on the 770?21:36
Taknew xterm package has a sidebar for ctrl21:37
BrianRicethat's a start. the version i have puts it in a submenu21:37
BrianRicearrow keys, too?21:37
BrianRice(honestly i'm surprised since the keyboard supports unicode but not the usual WinCE keys)21:38
BrianRiceor the pipe symbol21:38
* BrianRice shuts up and googles21:38
suihkulokkiBrianRice: use the rocker for arrow keys21:38
suihkulokkiit appears there should be a FAQ for xterm..21:39
BrianRiceright now i'm sufficing by running Bear SSH and shelling in21:40
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zuhBrianRice: the pipe symbol is in the 'symbols' tab in the keyboard21:44
BrianRicezuh: oh between the esset/integral and pi? strange place, but thanks21:46
maddlerkeys location may vary with different "keyboard" layout...21:46
maddlerI'm using English (UK) keyboard layout in xterm...21:47
maddlerso that I get most useful keys at hand...21:47
Takhooray, I'm finally connected to our broken wifi21:47
BrianRiceah thanks21:48
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BrianRiceyeah UK is much better21:48
* Tak tries the uk layout for comparison21:48
RobHuPlankton is a lot better :-)21:49
RobHuThanks tzz !21:49
s-ndh-cis there fdsik or something for the 770?21:50
Takanybody having layout weirdness with plankton + control panel?21:50
maddlers-ndh-c: sfdisk21:51
zuhTak: what kind?21:51
maddlerTak: ?21:51
Taklet me screenshot21:51
maddlerTak: try applying another theme and then plankton again21:52
maddlerTak: I had some applications using (part of) previously used theme..21:52
Takno, it's using the whole theme21:52
maddlertry theme switching a couple time...21:53
maddlernot sure of the reason...21:53
maddlerbut that worked for me... :)21:53
tkoif you have xterm you could check if you have ~/.osso/current-gtk-theme*.cache files around, and if so delete them21:54
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tzzrobhu: no problem, I had nothing to do with Plankton.  Do keep as a bookmark though, all the cool stuff is announced there.22:00
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Takany recommendations for sites that work with the internet radio applet?22:11
Takhaving issues with shoutcast22:11
konfooanyone want to buy a 770? i have a spare one for sale..22:12
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konfooTak: no issues here (plank+ctrlpanel)22:12
matt_cTak: is nice for public radio stuff.22:12
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matt_cTak: a lot of the time I end up downloading the .m3u and pointing the radio applet at the source listed there.22:13
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s-ndh-chow am i supposed to install e2fsprogs?22:15
s-ndh-cif i try to install that it screws up dpkg22:17
s-ndh-cit tries to remove osso-af for some reason22:17
JaffaHmmm, anyone any experience with Perl modules in Scratchbox (specifically DynaLoader/.so-based ones)?22:19
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JaffaOr any Scratchbox fu for avoiding the situation where /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/ is trying to load /usr/lib/perl5/auto/Bit/Vector/ which, when in SDK_ARM is two entirely different architectures :-(22:21
Com1my N800 came with only 1 internet radio channel! How do i get more???22:24
JaffaOooh, maybe if I set PERLINCDIR etc.22:24
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Takthat's what I'm currently struggling with @ com122:24
Com1Does it work with "shoutcast" servers?22:25
TakI haven't had any luck yet with shoutcast.com22:25
Takdoesn't mean it's unpossible; I'm a n00b22:25
tzzJaffa: look at perl -V, -Dotherlibdirs might be the problem22:25
tigertCom1: yes, it is "shoutcast"22:26
tigertthat's what internet radio is22:26
tzzby default on my SB install it includes /usr/lib/perl522:26
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s-ndh-cTak: does that work different than on the n770?22:26
* Tak shrugs22:26
Takactually I'm on a 770 now22:26
Com1tigert, only 1 chan installed??22:26
tigertCom1: for example22:26
tigertCom1: just add whatever you want22:26
s-ndh-cthis home applet seems to get the streaming from the audioplayer playlist favorites22:26
tigertthere are way many22:26
tigertyea, the home applet uses the media player radio favorites22:27
tzzcom1: you can look in the itunes directory, it's all in the details when you add the stream22:27
s-ndh-catleast thats where this predefined stream is in22:27
Com1the killer app for N800 would be a MIDI player/sequencer.22:27
Jaffatzz: yeah, if I add /scratchbox/users/ubuntu/targets/SDK_PC/usr/lib/perl5 to the head of @INC, the host libraries take precedence. Excellent.22:27
Com1Does N800 support MIDI22:27
tzzcom1: my favorite is but that may be too much pop for most people :)22:27
Takactually my shoutcast stream is working now22:28
TakI just had to try several times22:28
tigertwe should try to recompile soundtracker for N80022:28
* Jaffa likes the 128k AAC Virgin Radio Classic Rock feed.22:28
tigertthat would actually be fun22:28
tigertthe screen is perfect for that even22:28
tigertof course typing stuff is hard :)22:28
Com1i'm pushing for MIDI support for Internet Tablets22:28
tigertbut soundtracker is gtk 1.2 :I22:29
Takactually I was thinking an IT would be a great wireless controller for frets on fire22:29
tzzcom1: and MOD files!  back to the 80s/early 90s!22:29
tzzcom1: just kidding, I know MIDI support is useful22:29
Com1mod bought it back22:29
Takplenty of space for five frets on screen, then the other buttons can be used for picking22:29
Com1midi...........i'm not talking bout ringtones22:30
tigertmods rule22:30
Com1N800 uses wav files for ringtones22:30
bipolarwow... gizmo is awesome22:30
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s-ndh-ci cant install e2fsprogs22:34
s-ndh-csome of the dependant packages that get installed seems to hoss dpkg status file22:34
tigertfretsonfire looks amazing22:34
s-ndh-cnow i cant do anything nomore with dpkg22:35
Taktigert: it's killer22:35
tigertit looks like awesome fun with a bunch of friends and some beer :)22:35
tigertneed to keep this in mind when we need office entertainment :)22:35
Takyeah, we had some fun with it at our office the other day22:36
Takkeyboards that have a big space between f4 and f5 must be destroyed, however22:36
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tigertoh right22:36
tigertno Keytronics22:36
tkoor thinkpads22:38
tzztak: logitech G15 is the best keyboard I ever owner (I already bought three, one for work and two for home)22:40
tigertwell, laptops make it a bit hard in general :)22:40
tigerttzz: just for fretsonfire? :)22:40
Takactually the imac kb in the cube behind me is perfect22:41
bipolarare bluetooth headsets compatable with the 800?22:41
Takfkeys closely and evenly spaced22:41
keesjtzz,  I have been using only MS natural keyboards in the last 8 years22:44
keesjMS should only create keyboard :P22:44
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keesj  (url to a good product of a bad company)22:45
keesjtzz, and you can program the lcd?22:46
keesjthe G15 has plenty of geeky features22:47
tzzkeesj: yes, though I haven't had the time to play with the LCD22:47
keesjyou need to replace the lcd with a n70022:48
tzzthat would be pretty, but I prefer to keep it detached for the trip back home22:49
k-swhat's the french translation of "buffering" ?22:49
tzzN800 + canola = good ipod replacement22:49
k-stzz: wait for my canola + external usb HDD  :-)22:49
keesjk-s, but check the spelling :p22:49
k-stzz: or canola + ipod (via gpod)22:50
maddlerbut has new canola been released already?22:50
k-skeesj: do players use that?22:50
tzznah, I don't care for that much storage, just more things to lose.  Bigger SDHC is all I want.22:50
Takso...mplayer backend for canola? ;-)22:50
tzzwell, all I want from Nokia anyhow.22:51
keesjI know it  is used in "cache-memory"22:51
andrunkoyeah, i will finish the tests now and release it when canola is released22:51
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Taknice - when is canola set to be released?22:51
k-sTak: in few minutes22:51
tzzandrunko: I assume it's OK to talk about the beta since it's released today, and people have discussed it before here.22:51
andrunkotzz: yep, no problem22:51
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keesjk-s, I just checked ,yes this is the best word :p. buffering=mettre dans un tampon22:53
tzzandrunko: have you guys thought about a pop-up menu to navigate quickly instead of backing out of one menu to go into another?  e.g. music to photocast.22:54
Taklol - french is awesome22:54
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andrunkotzz: this kind of thing should be discussed with handful, the UI designer guy22:55
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andrunkotzz: you can add this as a feature request22:55
s-ndh-cis it possible to make my n770 connect to my wlan at home automaticaly? like if it finished booting check for known networks and join them?22:55
bipolars-ndh-c: my 800 does that if it's connected to the ap before.22:56
s-ndh-cbipolar: yeah i noticed that, i have this hacked itos2007 version installed on my mmc card it did that too22:56
s-ndh-cthats why iam asking if itos2006 can do that too22:57
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Com1i would like to hook a joystick into the USB port on N80022:58
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bhimaHrm. None of the instructions I've found will let me install python2.5 on my N800.22:59
s-ndh-cCom1: i guess that only works if you have a hub or something or do joysticks not need power?22:59
bhimaeverything needs power.23:00
bhimaDoes anybody know how to install python on an empty N800?23:00
s-ndh-cso hub or special cable with power injector or something like that23:00
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bhimaSince I'm guessing you want to plug this into your 770 or N800, last I heard your handheld needed power as well as the device.23:01
hubI don't have special cables23:02
tzzandrunko: OK, I was just wondering if you've discussed it before.  I'll make it a feature req.23:03
hubkeesj: you know that in France we'd just use the word "buffer" anyway23:06
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bipolarI wonder if a USB Edge network adaptor could work with the 800... I like the idea of hi speed internet anywhere.23:09
keesjCan I read this as "they think buffer is acceptable"?23:10
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hubkeesj: in the practical use, yes23:12
hubkeesj: in Quebec, would be different though23:12
hubkeesj: that's what's happening with jargon23:12
Com1so..the USB on N800 is HOST!??23:12
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s-ndh-cCom1: i think the controler supports both23:14
bipolarCom1: it can be, yes23:14
s-ndh-cbut its only in peripheral mode by default23:14
s-ndh-cso you have to switch the operating mode to host to use usb devices with your n770/n80023:15
tkoand host mode drains battery23:15
s-ndh-cbut the main problem is that the controler doesnt provide power to the devices so you need a hub or power injected cable or something the likes for devices without own power supply23:16
bipolars-ndh-c: ahh... that would make it complicated... not to mention that the port is blocked by the stand23:16
bipolarmaybe it would be better to make a edge2wifi router with a gumstix or something.23:17
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bingo__is it possible to take a picture with the N800?23:27
matt_cbingo__: see
bhimaSo host mode on the N800 kills dyntick?23:28
matt_cthere's also a document on that has an example you can compile23:29
matt_cbingo__: oops, no binaries for malomo yet, you'll have to compile in scratchbox either way23:29
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bingo__matt_c, it's not a problem thank you23:33
matt_cbingo__: I built PIL for the N800 but haven't quite figured out how to save a gstreamer buffer to an image yet.23:33
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[mbm]didn't think anyone had gotten host mode on the n80023:36
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com1ok, on my n80023:59

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