IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-01-24

Takit's only for the default setting?00:00
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AaronL2Tak:  That is not necessarily the same as the current setting00:00
maddlermgedmin: that was deliberately left out...00:00
AaronL2Tak:  For instance, let's say the display applet weren't running, there would still be a brightness00:00
Takis there ever a situation where the display applet isn't running?00:00
mgedminaargh, is midnight 12 am or 12 pm00:01
AaronL2Tak:  well, if maemo-af-desktop isn't running, or if the user has moved or deleted libdisplay.so00:01
mgedminworst time to be setting the system clock :)00:01
AaronL212 AM00:01
AaronL2taK:  also, root can manually change the driver's setting00:01
mgedminmaddler: vim-help is another candidate for a separate deb00:01
AaronL2Tak:  the driver display setting, independent of libdisplay.so00:01
mgedminmaddler: and maybe vim-full that depends on all the vim-*00:02
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AaronL2Tak:  Go to Frantisek's web page for more info00:02
Takyeah, I'm reading the thread now00:02
maddlermgedmin: yup... was thinking the same thing...00:04
maddlerlooks like I'm gonnahave a repository on as well...00:04
maddlerinstead of a crappy web page ;)00:04
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mgedminbetter put it up on the maemo extras repository00:04
gpdso it seems that .profile gets run when I ssh into the tablet - but when I run osso-xterm it doesn't - any way around this?00:05
mgedminthe proliferation of random 3rd party repos is hurting the users00:05
* mgedmin is guilty as well00:05
mgedmingpd: that's the 64 thousand dollar question00:05
Takdoes it execute .bashrc ?00:05
mgedmingpd: in theory you can put ENV=.ashrc; export ENV in .profile00:05
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mgedminthen create .ashrc with things to be set up in every shell00:06
maddlermgedmin: yup... we should solve that...00:06
mgedminthe base osso-xterm runs .profile when you open it00:06
mgedminmaemo-hacker's one doesn't00:06
mgedminknown bug00:06
maddlerme myself hate having so many repos as well...00:06
maddlerbut... how to solve?00:07
mgedminforce everyone to upload packages into maemo extras00:07
keesjupstream repo is also not the best. may the source be ith you00:07
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nelsonOne repo for the current release; ipkg update fetches anything new.00:09
nelsonAnother repo for the release under test.00:09
gpdmgedmin: ENV=.ashrc; export ENV is in /home/users/.profile (near the top) - but still nothing with the osso-xterm? Either I have the hackers version or i have done something wrong00:09
maddlermgedmin: yes... that's a good start... but it should be more publicized...00:09
maddlerkeesj: not everyone can build from source...00:10
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maddleror simply not every one wants to...00:10
keesjww perhaps the profile is read at x startup?00:10
mgedmingpd: does your osso xterm put you in ~?  then it's maemo-hackers; if it puts you in /, then it's the standard one00:10
bhimaI don't _want_ to build from source if it's just to prove a point.00:10
gpdmgedmin: it puts me in /00:11
* mgedmin shrugs00:11
mgedminthe .profile business is very dark and mysterious, and I do not fully understand it :(00:11
gpdmgedmin: I don't need /.profile - or anything weird?00:11
mgedminmaybe I gave up and edited /etc/profile00:12
gpdyes -- just looking at that00:12
maddlerbhima... tank you... :)00:13
mgedmincrap, I just registered for a garage account, and I forgot my password already00:16
mgedminbefore logging in for the first time00:16
mgedminnow I have a screen full of pwgen passwords and have to guess which one I picked00:16
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maddlermgedmin: hahahaha00:16
mgedminoverwritten :/00:17
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* shapr boinsg00:19
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bhimaI've never used pwgen. But I'm guessing it does the same thing as a little app I wrote in python.00:19
bhimaMine has some nifty add-ons, like letting you alternate between left and right hand, and skipping characters that are different on different keyboard layouts.00:20
Takhmm @ /sys/class/graphics/fb000:20
AaronL2Tak:  that looks familiar00:21
AaronL2Tak:  but, it needs root to change it00:22
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Takyeah :-/00:22
AaronL2Tak:  perhaps you can somehow trick the system inactivity timer into thinking that the device has become inactive00:22
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TakI was considering temporarily setting the inactivity timeout to 1s00:23
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maddlermgedmin: I'm checking how big is a "dirty" deb for VIM00:25
AaronL2Tak:  That's not exactly playing nice, another option that I thought of is you could have your install package create an executable that is run by root00:25
AaronL2Tak:  You could communicate with it from your application to cause the screen to be blanked, it would write to fb000:25
Takthat's an option too00:25
mgedminmaddler: did you notice ?  3.5 megs compressed, IIRC about 5-7 megs uncompressed00:25
AaronL2Tak:  why do you want to blank the screen anyway?00:25
Takthe problem is that all the options appear to be hacks :-|00:25
mgedminI'm wondering how yours compares00:26
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AaronL2Tak:  also, take a look at the latest libosso code in CVS (the very latest), there is something new called muali, it might provide a way to blank the screen via libosso00:26
mgedminthe svn checkout of vim 7 on my laptop with all the runtime files (twice, because it's svn) and compiled .o files weighs 74 megs (!)00:26
TakI've been wanting to make a screen control applet that's a bit less restrained than the control panel settings00:26
mgedminhm are .install files supported on os2006.2?00:27
AaronL2Tak:  one option, possibly, replace with your own00:27
AaronL2mgeadmin:  yes00:27
Takthat seems like a good way to brick other people's devices :-/00:27
AaronL2Tak: is just loaded by maemo-af-desktop, it's not a required component00:28
AaronL2Tak:  you could delete the file and things would still work00:28
mgedminno .install file for openssh on
maddlermgedmin: didn't downloaded... not so much btw...00:29
maddlerI mean... if you really need everything...00:29
mgedminmaddler: I was mostly wondering about the size00:29
mgedminI stripped down the syntax files pretty drastically00:29
mgedminand plugins as well00:29
mgedminI'm not saying that *my* choices are universally the best ones ;)00:30
maddlerinstead of having debs for them...00:30
gpdmaddler: did you try to compile the vanilla vim debs? i got dependency issues - but this is week 2 for me00:30
maddlermaybe having them downloadable via a shellscript?00:30
gpdmaddler: those produce vim-tiny and vim-full -- etc00:30
maddlergpd... I'm just testing right now... using vim official tarball00:31
Takhmm - there's also /sys/power/state00:31
maddlergpd: yep... that's the basic idea...00:31
AaronL2mgeadmin:  all garage packages should have .install files that are automatically generated for them00:31
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mgedminaargh, the backup + restore did not restore my browser's home page00:33
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maddleryour home page doesn't exist... it's only a state of mind!00:38
gpdmaddler: I just removed all the other vim-gnome /vim-gtk packages from debian/control and got rid of the associated dependencies - and it seems to be building... no idea if this will work however!00:39
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gpd[although now this is just an obsession - since i have working vim7 thanks to mgedmin ]00:40
mgedminwaah, how do you use .htaccess files to specify the content type for *.install00:40
Jaffamaddler: ping (re: mud)00:40
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|tbb|mplayer wont play wmv files ? with the new rls00:41
mgedminduh, s/\*.install/.install/00:42
c0ffeeno alsa on 77000:42
Takis there alsa on 800?00:42
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c0ffeei'll know in a few days00:42
mgedminheh, pretty dialog00:42
mgedmin(icon that says "i") Not found? [ OK ]00:43
mgedminare .install files limited to user/* ?00:43
AaronL2mgeadmin:  are you referring to the field in the control file that specifies the category of the application?00:44
mgedminI tried to create a one-click .install file for openssh00:45
mgedminyou can find it at
AaronL2mgeadmin:  there are a limited number of categories supported, in general, they might all start with user/00:45
AaronL2I read about that some time ago, but I dont' remember all the categories supported00:45
AaronL2did you see the howto document that discusses .install files at
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mgedmina long time ago :)00:46
AaronL2also, you can find various .install files that work at garage00:46
AaronL2I'll get you the link for the parent directory00:46
|tbb|is it normal mplayer wont run wmv files by now?00:47
AaronL2that's for 2.0/mistral .install files00:47
mgedminhow long would it take me (or somebody else) to upload a .deb to garage with no real contents but that would have Depends: ssh and Section: user/networking or something00:47
AaronL2replace 2.0 with 2.1 and 3.0 for scirocco or bora, respectively00:47
mgedmintoo long00:47
AaronL2too long?00:47
AaronL2mgeadmin:  you need to get the proper access for uploading a package first00:47
Zmanui have a problem, in xterm i can't use backspace, that create square instead of delete, is someone have an idea on n77000:47
Zmanuos 200600:47
AaronL2mgeadmin:  it's not hard to upload a package00:47
mgedminexactly, but I just flashed my 770 and want to get back my working env ASAP :)00:48
bhimazmanu: local, not ssh? on-screen keyboard?00:48
mgedminplus I want to use the opportunity to make future reflashes less painful00:48
mgedminso I thought "one click install for openssh is maybe possible, then I can just ssh as root and restore /etc/apt/sources, etc."00:48
Zmanubhima: on screen keyboard00:48
AaronL2mgeadmin:  openssh is not provided at garage, unfortunately00:49
mgedminZmanu: people say osso-xterm from has that problem, but osso-xterm from maemo-hackers doesn't00:49
gpdmaddler: well it built vim, vim-perl, vim-python, vim-doc and vim_common - but not vim-tiny00:49
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AaronL2mgeadmin:  you provide the IRC chat logs for #maemo, right?00:50
Zmanumgedmin: thanks i go and see00:50
mgedminAaronL2: yes00:50
AaronL2mgeadmin:  Any chance of providing a search feature as well? :-)00:50
mgedminit's already there00:52
mgedminlook at the top-right corner of the page00:52
AaronL2heh, you're right :-)00:52
AaronL2totally missed it00:52
Zmanumgedmin: i can't find .deb in repository and i don't have net on n77000:53
mgedminhm, looks like a .install file cannot specify more than one repository00:53
AaronL2any chance of the search being configurable, to provide context information surrounding the instance of the word that is searched for/00:53
mgedminAaronL2: sure, the search script is open-source; just send me a patch ;)00:53
mgedminyou'll find the link in the footer00:53
AaronL2guess I would have to learn python to do that :-)00:54
maddlergpd: "it"?00:55
AaronL2any new features you want in VNC viewer?  I see in the search that you have used it :-)00:55
mgedmincan't think of any00:56
mgedminjust can't come up with reasonable ui for it00:56
AaronL2mgeadmin:  we may be adding that feature for the next release00:56
AaronL2mgeadmin:  by holding down the + button, perhaps00:57
mgedminI noticed in irc logs :)00:57
AaronL2and then dragging00:57
JaffaNot just pan-to-scroll, but iPhone-like inertial scrolling ;-)00:57
mgedminor a toggle button in the toolbar00:57
mgedminooh, ooh, use the thumb for scrolling, and stylus for clicking00:57
AaronL2toggle button, perhaps, could be based on pressure as well, maybe00:57
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AaronL2touchscreen pressure, I mean00:57
mgedminexcept in real life your thumb would get misdetected and break havoc00:57
AaronL2yes, probably00:58
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mgedminyay, in red pill mode my single-click openssh.install works00:58
Jaffamgedmin: yay00:58
AaronL2Any US developers receive their discount code yet?00:58
AaronL2I would guess not....00:59
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gpdmgedmin: maddler: i built the debian vim package using scratchbox and removed the stuff from debian/control as indicated above-  just installed the vim_ and vim-common and it seems to run... no time to test further now - but back in 30 mins or so01:02
mgedminroot is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.01:03
Takwtf - "-lgtk-x11-2.0: No such file or directory"01:04
maddlerwe should create/update an ITOS2007wip page on the wiki...01:04
gpdmaddler: maddler if you want to try these they are at:
* gpd attempts to rememember sytax for +Indexes01:06
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bhimaAaronL2: I'm guessing a few have, since Nokia probably isn't perfect at figuring out where people live.01:06
gpdheh -- .htaccessesssss  --- fixed01:06
Jaffagpd: did I see earlier you were playing with mud?01:09
|tbb|mplayer freezes while trying to playing wmv files where do i have to report that01:10
Jaffa|tbb|: will link to its garage page which will have a bug tracker01:11
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guerbyAaronL2, for fast access may be a small screen in the toolbar representing the full remote screen if you click on some part of it centers the view01:13
guerbyAaronL2, might not be that great though...01:14
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AaronL2guerby:  might be hard to do--toolbar buttons aren't typically used that way01:16
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AaronL2guerby:  also, might not correspond well to the dimensions of the VNC server01:17
AaronL2guerby:  especially now with rotation support01:17
guerby_zzzAaronL2, yep not a good idea :)01:17
AaronL2guerby:  but, thanks for the idea, I should come to IRC more often, no one submits feature requests on our web site :-(01:17
guerby_zzzAaronL2, let me sleep with that in mind you'll regret asking :)01:18
guerby_zzzAaronL2, for browing complex sites I use openvpn+vncviewer on my desktop firefox so no opera problem :)01:18
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guerby_zzzAaronL2, feature wise is it possible to save password per host? (with a button "use saved password"?01:19
guerby_zzzbutton/radio button01:19
guerby_zzzmay be a config file01:20
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AaronL2guerby:  possibly, right now, if you specify the hostname and password via the command-line01:20
AaronL2guerby:  it will reapply them if you lose the connection, but that's not the same thing01:20
guerby_zzzAaronL2, config file?01:20
AaronL2guerby:  well, I would be concerned about security, but it is a possibility01:20
AaronL2guerby:  if the user specifically sets the setting, then I guess it would be okay, but, I would want to have some sort of encryption thing01:21
AaronL2guerby:  perhaps just use the VNC encryption01:21
guerby_zzzAaronL2, I'll think about it. good night :)01:21
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* mgedmin creates a page with instructions for himself how to get a cosy environment after a reflash:
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JaffaRight, time for bed.01:38
maddlermgedmin: did you managed when/were is the first point at which is fine to mount external card?01:38
maddlerJaffa: g'night!01:39
Jaffamaddler: scrollback might've gone over the top, so any mud problems, just drop me or the mailing list a line, 'k?01:39
mgedminwhat do you mean?01:39
mgedminthe card is mounted automatically01:39
maddlerJaffa: okidoki...01:39
maddlermgedmin: I've got a second ext2 partition...01:39
maddlerand I mounting it from minircS right now...01:40
mgedminah, well I never repartitioned my card01:40
maddleroh... ok...01:40
mgedminso I wouldn't know01:40
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mgedminof course I forgot to back up the list of packages I had installed :)01:47
maddlermgedmin: repartitioning your card and having your home on 2nd partion will make all your stuff survive the reflash...01:47
maddlerwithout having to backup/restore01:48
maddlerI also have on the card all the basic debs I need to get a "good" start...01:48
maddlerxterm... dropbear... vim...01:48
mgedmingood idea, but my mmc card is full already :)01:49
maddlerbuy a 2G card :D01:49
mgedminafter I get a n80001:50
mgedminhmm, where's the panel clock?01:50
mgedminoh, it's in my repo :)01:52
lardman|tvnight all02:08
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myren_i didnt have a 770, but i would like to dev on the n80002:21
myren_is there any way i can get a dev unit from
myren_from what i can see its invite only02:21
bmidgleymyren_: don't think there is any way02:24
* myren_ is jack's lack of suprise02:24
myren_kinda a dumb way to do it, but whatever.02:24
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nomismyren_: well, it probably would help to use the scratchbox development environment to port some interesting stuff and post "will someone please test, I don't have a device!" around to get attention for the dev program.02:27
nomisIt probably is a bit too late for this round though.02:27
myren_you speak wisely sir.02:27
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* gpd cuts down HandStands Bullet-Proof Shilds for Video iPod to fit N80002:28
myren_i know app #1, i need to think of #2 to port.02:28
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myren_thankfully the mono port seems to be working ok.  #2 will almost certainly derive from taht.02:28
* gpd notices wikispam02:30
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mgedminicd is stupid02:44
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SyntaxNinjahm. before I install ssh, should I change my user password or something?02:54
SyntaxNinja(to my N800)02:54
minrai didn't02:55
minraminra street surfing with the N770
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maddlerbut you have to be good enough to explain why you deserve one...02:56
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* maddler wonders why his wired ethernet dies...03:00
* minra perks03:00
minrai get frequent disconnects to the 770 via wlan, but the 770 says still connected03:01
minrabut only at home with ssh for some odd reason03:01
maddlerminra: yup... on my laptop...03:01
maddlerevery now and then wired ethernet stop working... but ONLY while I'm at home...03:02
maddlerit works perfectly everywhere else...03:02
maddlerfor days...03:02
minraoh i thought someone had ethernet over usb for the 77003:03
minradunno - standard operating procedure maddler, start swapping out stuff, cable, switch etc03:03
shaprminra: Yup, network over usb works fine.03:16
shaprI used for months before I got a wifi AP03:17
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* mgedmin pronounces to be complete and yawns03:17
SyntaxNinjayay I just realized that my n800 is running code I wrote :)03:17
shaprWhich code?03:18
SyntaxNinjaapt-secure :)03:18
SyntaxNinja(package signature checking for apt)03:18
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* gpd is tempted to reformat SD cards as Ext203:24
gpdshapr: heh - i was told Ext3 was too 'heavy' for N80003:24
shaprext2 would work, but cameras and windows wouldn't recognize 'em03:24
gpdbut if i just leave it in here *forever* ;)03:24
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shaprSurprising, I'd think there's some cute way to get ext3 to work togetherly profitably with the write-levelling.03:25
shaprMan, I hope I get a discount code. Otherwise I won't be able to afford an N800 for months :-(03:25
gpdi dislike the 'unable to preserve ownership'... messages - they disturb me03:26
kjetilhoisn't JFFS2 the thing to use on Flash?03:26
shaprI'm really good at advertising, and I'd port GHC to maemo.03:26
gpdGlasgow Haskell Compiler?03:26
gpddoes it not compile on scratchbox?03:27
kjetilhoa true killer app if I ever knew one ;-)03:27
shaprI could go ahead and do it on my 770 when I can spare 8+ hours to build it.03:27
maddlerdamn... I can't find what's wrong...03:27
shaprGHC needs a bit of work to run on ARM03:27
shaprkjetilho: Well, HAppS would make for a bunch of nice maemo apps, imho. It's a webapp server.03:28
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gpdshapr: <-- says 'arm'03:31
* shapr tries it03:32
gpdyou will need to recompile on scratchbox for armel -- but should work03:32
gpddpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libgmp3-dev libreadline5-dev | libreadline-dev xutils haddock (>= 0.6) ghc6 grep-dctrl03:34
gpdnot sure how it can require ghc6 to build ghc6...03:34
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* gpd installs
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gpdhas anyone compiled a list of random useful things to have on your tablet?  eg. pdf files / text files / ebooks of general 'stuff'.03:51
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* gpd tries sylpheed on N80004:03
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gpdhmm. no sign of it connecting to my imap server :(04:09
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maddlerhmm... has anyone ever tried connecting to another device via ad-hoc wireless?04:09
maddlerI;m trying to connect to my laptop...04:09
maddlerbut looks like I'm missing something...04:10
shaprI've tried it, but haven't gotten it to work.04:10
maddlerhehe... good to know... :D04:11
maddlerat least I'm not the only one...04:11
maddlerdoh... disconnecting ad-hoc makes E61 reboot04:11
shaprI couldn't get my desktop wifi card to do ad-hoc, that's why I didn't get anywhere.04:11
gpdhmm... seems to send mail ok -04:13
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maddlerhow's the interface?04:13
maddlerlast time I checked it looked a little crowded...04:13
gpdyes crowded is a good word for it04:15
gpdalso doesn't seem to want to go fullscreen (probalby mistral related)04:15
gpdbut the included mail app doesn't support imap folders very well and it doesn't seem to update the read status of my mails04:15
maddlerare you testing on n800?04:15
maddlerso is Bora... not mistral...04:16
maddlerbtw... yes... is the same problem I have...04:16
maddlerI ended up using webmail...04:16
maddleror Profimail on my E6104:16
maddlerwhich is a GREAT client...04:16
maddlerbut being able to have a good client on N800 would be fine...04:16
gpdit seems that a lot of the mistral stuff seems to work (ish) - not sure exactly what makes somnething not work (maybe bluetooth)04:17
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gpdi would like to have access to mail /offline/04:17
gpdfor reference etc. so webmail is not so great an option04:17
maddlerI know... I know...04:18
maddlerbut using IMAP a lot... I had no other chance on 77004:18
gpdsylpheed looks to have the power - but just needs some tinkering04:18
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maddlermainly it needs a new interface...04:19
maddlersuitable for use on this kind of devices...04:20
maddlersomething like GPE* stuff...04:21
soleblazespeaking of gpe..has anyone managed to get gpe to sync with anything on a desktop?04:21
maddlernot yet...04:22
gpdsoleblaze: in theory the gpe calendar can 'sync|subscribe' to webcal://foo/bar.ics but for me it breaks with my google calendar feed04:23
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gpdas for the sync demon - not tried that yet04:24
AaronL2Any US developers receive the discount code?04:24
AaronL2I mean, today?04:24
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maddlera function I really miss in GPE* is to recall contacts from calendar...04:27
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gpdsweet -- just deleted my imap account and entered it again in sylpheed and now it is grabbing things :)  I put the wrong login before and it refused to recheck04:28
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gpdmaddler: actually if you hide the status, search bars and make the icon only toolbar -- it isn't too bad -- maybe with fullscreen and smaller text it would be pretty good04:30
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maddlergpd: yup... not being ablet to fullscreen steals a lot of space...04:34
gpdi seem to be stuck with separate folder view now ...04:35
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jtokashAnyone have news on the new version of Canola?04:39
gpdhmm... looks like Jaffa is the man behind sylpheed :)04:42
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jtokashI'm reflashing my n800 right now.  Did anyone have anything they wanted to test on a completely fresh device?  I know someone had a request like that a few days ago, so I'm asking just in case.04:48
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maddlerjacques: nothing I can thok of right now...04:53
maddlersorry... that was meant to be jtokash :D04:55
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maddlerok... time to hit the bed here...05:00
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keesjis there are command to clean /var/cache/apt/archives?05:57
keesjsorry wrong channel05:57
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paul__has anyone here used nano on the n800?06:03
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minraapt-cache clean06:04
keesjit was apt-get clean  and google was my friend06:07
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paul__i am having a problem saving files in nano,  after sending a ctrl-o  to save the file, nano responds with a request for confirmation for filename to save.  Problem is the virtual keyboard goes away and tapping to make it come back makes nano forget the save request06:08
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mitchelocHey guys, I took the plunge and purchased an N800, where is the SIP client on it?06:41
mitchelocor is it XMPP/Jingle only?06:41
lexiyntaxGizmo is SIP isn't it?06:42
mitchelocyes, I have an internal Asterisk server that I'd like to use06:42
lexiyntaxI haven't tried it yet, but I know they have a N800 release here:
pahartikmitcheloc: "Gizmo" is only one available for now, and it is registrar-locked06:43
gpdI think someone was porting ekiga (sp?)06:44
lexiyntaxGizmo isn't a general SIP client?06:44
mitchelocgpd: that's the correct spelling06:44
mitchelocGizmo is a service like skype...they have their own UI06:45
mitchelocso i can't dial out a land line with the nokia?06:46
mitchelocthe advertising for voip is misleading =(06:46
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lexiyntaxThe only VOIP on the N800 by default I've found is Google Talk; not exactly the most widely used network yet.06:49
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* pahartik waits for SIP clients other than "Gizmo"06:50
mitchelocwell XMPP is widely used which is what gtalk is, this is disappointing without the ability to dial land lines06:50
mitcheloci'd be able to buy 10 or more if these did SIP06:51
pjrmMy N770 just ~crashed: two processes in uninteruptible sleep (D in ps: maemo-launcher running /usr/bin/browser, and pdflush kernel process and /sbin/syslogd).06:53
pjrmThe wchan field of /proc/PID/stat for the browser process showed 0xc00e523c, which is in "c00e5118 t jffs2_do_setattr" according to /proc/kallsyms.06:53
pjrmI tried leaving it for a bit; when I came back, I found my ssh session had become unresponsive.06:53
pjrmI pressed the power button, which did nothing for a while, then the white screen with nokia logo came up, then nothing happening other than occasionally (every ~40 seconds) flashing black screen then back to nokia logo.06:53
pjrmAfter a few minutes, it went to black screen.06:53
pjrmI recharged it (waiting until it said "Battery Full"), turned it on.  It started booting up as normal, but when the progress bar reached full, it just sat there.06:53
pjrmAbout 100 seconds after switching it on, the screen flashed black, like before, and continued to flash a brief (<1 sec) black screen every ~40 seconds.06:53
pjrmAfter a while, it changed to really strange blue patterns, and has now gone black (I suppose switched off).06:53
pjrmAny suggestions?06:53
pahartikmitcheloc: I think XMPP is acceptable too, but I do not know of any clients other than that for Maemo (and is that registrar-locked to "Google Talk" service?)06:53
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pjrmjoy of joys -- it's now booting normally.  Phew!07:01
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pjrmI thought I was looking at either flashing it (if i'm lucky) or sending it (overseas) to be serviced.07:02
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keesjIs it possible to hildonize sdl apps?07:08
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dieguitodoes n800 has any kind of problem with any brand of SD cards?07:17
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Takhildonize in what sense?07:20
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AaronL2Any US developers receive their codes?07:23
Taknot I07:23
TakI feel like I'm trapped in The Little Red Hen07:24
Tak"And who will help me bake the bread?"  "Not I," said the duck, ...07:25
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shaprmitcheloc: There's sofia-sip that runs on the 77007:27
shaprmitcheloc: It's a command line app, but it works.07:27
nelsonme neither.07:27
shaprI'm quite happy with SIP so far.07:28
Taksupposedly ekiga runs as well07:28
shaprMeans I can dial my girlfriend from any open access point.07:28
shaprYeah, ekiga was ported recently.07:28
shaprBut that's not released yet, is it?07:28
shaprI use ekiga on my desktop.07:30
shapr(My girlfriend lives in Stockholm, Sweden but I live in Birmingham, Alabama)07:30
dieguitoshapr: isn't that too far away from each other :S?07:31
shaprI dated her for 1.5 years before I had to move back to the USA.07:32
shaprShe came and visited me a few months ago, and I'm going to visit her in April.07:32
shaprAnd she's coming to spend the summer with me.07:32
shaprI wish we weren't so far apart, but I'll just work on getting us living in the same place again.07:33
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shaprdieguito: What's too far for you?07:34
dieguitoah if you have the chance to come and go then there's no problem07:34
dieguitotoo far as in very far away is like across the ocean for me :)07:35
shaprFour months away from each other is not fun.07:35
dieguitoat all, I understand you07:36
shaprIt would be much more difficult without google talk and skype.07:36
dieguitowe are lucky to have all these things07:37
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dieguitobut at the same time sometimes I think that they take the exciting part out of life07:37
shaprFirst time I tried a long distance relationship was 1992 or so, and that one didn't work out because we couldn't stay in touch.07:37
shaprI started programming in 1982. The 'good old days' sucked hard.07:39
dieguitothanks god I couldn't "enjoy" them07:39
shaprIf your life isn't exciting enough, move to another country, travel the world, and look for excitement!07:39
shaprI tried that :-)07:40
dieguitoand what's the outcome07:40
shaprI learned to unicycle, I have a Swedish girlfriend, I can speak Swedish and a bit of Finnish and French.07:40
dieguitothe unicycle is worth the trip07:40
myren_i just wonder how much crispex and frosted mini wheats i can carry with me07:41
shaprme and my unicycle!
myren_i have a medical condition my mother joking refers to as "allergic to real food"07:41
myren_i dont eat shit07:41
shaprAre you really allergic to real food?07:42
shaprdieguito: What's your outcome so far?07:42
myren_no, but i'm sensitive to a lot of foods07:42
* pahartik deals with "remote relationships" over IRC07:43
dieguitoshapr: um, I lost my best friend ever recently and I'm kind of fine for the standard in the work so I guess if it's + and -, then i'm 007:44
dieguitoyeah :-(07:45
dieguitoso basically my life is sucking but since I have  a good job it's not sucking that much07:46
dieguitobut in the personal balance I do every day it totally sucks07:46
shaprIf you're ever in Alabama you can come hang out with me.07:47
shaprI found a nice Korean restaurant last week.07:47
shaprI like teaching people to unicycle :-)07:47
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dieguitoif I ever go to USA I'll have that in mind07:50
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cambbais there any examples for connectivity (other than the guide) for bora? I'm trying to figure out how to establish a socket connection in maemo app07:58
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zuhUh, I wonder how closely the alarm API docs have been inspected:
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zuhfor example the function _alarmd_action_set_property (which is static btw ;) has a long description that starts "Contact Person: David Weinehall <>"...08:34
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AaronL2Tak:  still there?09:19
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keesjzuh, what about the h1 title of ?09:31
keesjor the bora porting guide that states that bora uses gtk 2.609:31
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zuhIt does09:39
zuhkeesj: What makes you think it doesn't?09:40
keesjzuh, isn't it 2.4?09:42
zuhEven 1.1 was 2.6:
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keesj AMSTERDAM,09:58
keesjNL 01/24/2007 6:40 A.M. OUT FOR DELIVERY09:58
sxpertlucky you09:58
zuhMine will be delivered on friday if nothing happens to it during the transit09:59
c0ffeewith std delivery, i didn't get a tracking link :/10:00
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mitchelocshapr: is there a homepage on that sofia-sip ? or how to access a command line on the n800? i just bought it -- total noob10:06
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npricemaemo makes me miss debian10:18
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zuhmitcheloc: For command line, install the xterm from and/or a ssh from
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mitcheloczuh: thanks10:22
mitchelocreading now10:22
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JaffaMorning, all10:39
Jaffac0ffee: I went for std and have a tracking link. As I left home it was still in Belgium.10:40
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c0ffeemaybe they send if german post "tracking links? do we look like we care for our customers or what?"10:44
mitchelocthe mediaserver won't play my videos :(10:44
bedboihi there.10:45
bedboiis there any nokia guy here involved in the EU 7th FP?10:45
keesjI see that packages install in /var/lib/install is that normal?10:47
keesjbommber install in /usr/*10:48
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zuhthose that install in /var/lib/install are old AI packages10:49
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zuhwhen it didn't support real apt10:49
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VeggenHmm. I saw there was a new mplayer for 770 that does scaling much better?11:01
Veggen(according to the announce)11:01
osfameronooo!  canola nearly out for n80011:06
* osfameron jumps up and down excitedly11:06
VeggenI haven't tried canola yet.11:06
VeggenMy 770 died with the WSOD about the time that it was released.11:07
VeggenReturned today!11:07
Veggen(so, perhaps I'll try the 770-version this evening)11:07
s-ndh-ci realy like it11:08
osfameronI can't wait to try it11:08
osfameronthe default media player is a bit dim11:08
osfameronactually, the default apps other than opera aren't great11:09
Veggenosfameron: it's actually a bit improved on N800, the media-player? was easier to use it with internt radio streams, etc?11:09
s-ndh-ccanola works out great for me, i can listen to my musik from everywhere around the house without wires11:09
osfameronI ahven't done any internet radio11:09
osfameronplayback is fine on small collections11:09
osfameronbut it's buggy on larger ones, and slow to navigate11:09
osfameronI'd like not to carry a separate mp3 player :-)11:09
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Veggenhmm. I should try to improve my wireless network at home. I don't think the 770 og the N800 really likes it.11:10
keesjI have this big stereo and with the right volume I can listen everywhere in the house , even the neighbors can listen. it is great11:10
s-ndh-ckeesj: lol11:10
VeggenHmm. Mythfrontend for Maemo. That'd be something.11:12
Veggen(if it handles the video)11:12
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s-ndh-cis there some easy way to remotecontrol a mediaplayer application running on my desktop from my n770?11:17
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keesjHe , I have a little "community" problem, I want to port applications like tuxpaint using the mud builder. I wonder how to do that in a community "right" manner. I was thinking of mailing the original porter but I don't know what to mail11:17
s-ndh-cid like to use my n770 as somekind of bluetooth/wlan remotecontrol thing11:17
kjetilhos-ndh-c: a friend uses a web interface to control his music.  it's called "musicbase"11:18
Veggens-ndh-c: I'm thinking the same thing, these days.11:18
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s-ndh-cif i find some freetime i will research a bit, maybe there is some software allready that could be used for that, that just would need to be ported to the n77011:20
s-ndh-ci mean i have seen simmilar things for many bt enabled handys11:20
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Jaffakeesj: Something like: "I don't know if you're aware of the mud-builder project, but it is attempting to ease the porting of simple applications which require minimum Hildonisation. The biggest advantage is that compiling, releasing and uploading to the Extras repository for all to use is taken on by the mud team, leaving individuals free to port the applications they care about. As a proof-of-concept, I've done a quick port of TuxPaint using it, which you c11:26
Jaffakeesj: "...I'm happy to hand it over to you if you'd like to maintain the mud package, or - alternatively - I'll send check it in to the mud project where it will be built and uploaded soon."11:27
* Jaffa goes back to writing bullshit documents ;-)11:28
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AD-N770good morning11:34
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s-ndh-chm just found a page with many bt remotecontrol stuff11:41
s-ndh-cmost if for cell phones11:41
s-ndh-cmaybe i can find something that would workout on the n770 too11:41
s-ndh-c_follower_: thx will look at that11:41
_follower_i wrote it to control stuff on my os x laptop11:42
_follower_but the long term plan was to have it work with any desktop11:42
_follower_i haven't added anything to it for a while though11:42
s-ndh-clooks cool11:42
_follower_but it's long term goal was to be configurable11:42
s-ndh-ci was in search for something like that11:42
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s-ndh-cbut to controll my linux mediaplayer11:43
_follower_"...screen on the Nokia 700:" I can't  write properly :-)11:43
_follower_there was a mediaplayer-specifc port of something I recall seeing11:43
_follower_can't remember it's name tho11:43
* mitcheloc inserts a quick question, is it possible to rotate the screen on the n800?11:44
dwdmitcheloc: I don't think so, currently. The hardware support exists in both the 770 and N800, though, I believe.11:44
dwd(morning all, BTW)11:44
mitchelocwhat do you mean by "the hardware support exists"?11:45
mitchelocin other words it's just not implemented?11:45
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dwdmitcheloc: The graphics hardware on the 770, at least, can rotate the screen image in hardware - or at least invert the screen.11:45
dwdmitcheloc: Doing 90 degree rotations means either doing things in the app, or having the framework and X server working together to make the experience less confusing.11:46
dwdmitcheloc: In particular, you'd need the RandR extension on the X server, which I think is coming, and then you'd want the framework to know about the rotation so it could reorganize the layout in a more optimal manner.11:47
mitcheloci understand, i'm wrting a web app to use on the device and i have a giant number pad implemented in HTML, it'd make more sense to use the device sideways to save screen space11:48
mitchelocand since i'm writing html and depending ont he built in browser, i can't really rotate it11:48
s-ndh-cdoes the n770 support java?11:48
dwdmitcheloc: There is rotation stuff hidden away somewhere in CSS, but I have no idea if it's supported in the Opera browser.11:49
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dwdmitcheloc: I think you're probably stuck with redesigning for wide and short, rather than tall and thin.11:49
mitchelocdwd: it doesn't make sense for my app to do that...i'm looking into the css -- worst case i guess i can generate images dynamically with the text sideways heh11:50
kjetilhos-ndh-c: no.  (perhaps gcj can be used)11:51
mitchelocthe only thing really left is hiding the address bar in full screen? or is that asking too much :)11:51
dwds-ndh-c: Not yet. Some efforts are underway to make it do Java.11:51
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dewaardDoes anyone in this channel have experience with Python on the Nxxx devices? I want to develop an application that a) allows very simple data administration (there is a list of people and for each person multiple rows can be added), and b) synchronisation of this data with the server. I would prefer to create a web application, because this would be the most flexible setup. However, the setup will be used in "on the road" in Africa and the av12:31
dwdI use Python on the 770 quite a bit.12:31
dwddewaard: And, for that matter, I've quite an interest in roaming data synch.12:32
dewaarddwd: I've been reading the related web pages, and it seemed like the Python project for Maemo isn't very lively ( What is your impression?12:33
maddlermornin' all!12:34
dwddewaard: Seems well maintained, and fully capable.12:34
dwddewaard: They did shift development about, so there's old sourceforge pages, etc. New ones are on Garage.12:34
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dewaardahh, that is good to hear. I much rather write a Python application for a Linux based device, as I don't like the idea of developing for Windows.12:39
dewaardwhat do you mean exactly by roaming data synch., exactly?12:40
dwddewaard: Next up - I have both an ACAP server and Python based ACAP library that will handle full offline mode, as well as "immediate" updates, if that's of use to you. All GPL.12:40
dewaarddwd: hmm, although I don't fully understand what that technology offers it seems like something to have a look at from what I do understand so far.12:41
dwddewaard: My app uses it to roam configuration data, but it's a schemaless heirarchical database, so it could be used for pretty much anything.12:42
dewaardThis is a commercial project in the sense that I'm being paid to write it, but it will be released as GPL software anyway so GPL components are perfectly fine :)12:42
dewaardwhen you say ACAP, do you mean Automated Content Access Protocol?12:43
dwddewaard: Application Configuration Access Protocol. RFC2244.12:43
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_follower_dewaard: for packaging a python app you might find this useful:
dwddewaard: (I used _follower_'s stuff, too. Or a minor adaptation of it.)12:44
_follower_(see :-)12:45
_follower_dwd:  one of these days i'll get around to integrating it :-)12:45
_follower_a 800 would make it so much easier. *cough* :-)12:46
dewaard_follower_: hmm, the packaging utility seems nice :)12:49
_follower_dewaard: cheers, hopefully it might be useful for you...12:49
dewaardwill have a deep look at it when I actually decide the n800 will be a viable platform for our specific project.12:50
_follower_fair enough :-)12:50
dewaardhehe, I don't even own a n800 yet so it would be hard to give it a try (could try the sandbox thing, though :) )12:51
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kenderany way to boot the N800 in "secure" mode, which doesn't start any "extra" daemons?12:53
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dewaarddwd: hmm, I've read a little bit about ACAP now, but why should I use it instead of, say, a simple XML protocol for communication/synchronisation with the server?12:54
dwddewaard: You could do that. Depends on your needs. Using ACAP saves you from having to do protocol design work.12:55
dewaarddwd: true12:55
kjetilhodewaard: it's a standard already with some implementations12:56
dwdkjetilho: Not many, it must be said.12:56
konttoriDoes anybody remember how long it took for 770 to get from herne-böring to finland? (UPS)12:56
dewaardwell, I'll have a look at it :) The description on Wikipedia "It's rumoured to be the most complex Internet Engineering Task Force designed protocol ever, which has caused serious problems for server implementors." is a bit scary though ;)12:57
dwddewaard: Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't have written that. :-)12:57
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dewaardhehe :)12:58
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dewaardit might well be overkill for me, but anyway, its a side issue as my main problem at the moment is deciding on the right development environment and choosing protocols is something I can always do later.12:59
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dewaarddwd, _follower_ : thanks a bunch for now, I'll ponder over it a bit and do some extra research. :)13:04
kenderif you plug the N800 in the pc, the SD cards are detected as mass-storage, can be format them form the pc?13:04
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dewaardone last question as far as internet connectivity goes: what kind of mobile phone would you need to enable a n800 to connect over bluetooth to the internet using GPRS/EDGE/UMTS? Would any phone do?13:06
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dwddewaard: Most will do. Nokia ones unsurprisingly work best, some Sony/Ericsson ones have problems.13:08
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kulveHERNE-BOERNIG, DE 01/09/2007 1:34 A.M. EXPORT SCAN13:09
kulveHELSINKI, FI 01/11/2007 1:58 P.M. DELIVERY13:09
_matthias_and do not use sharp!13:09
dewaardso I would just need an n800 + a (nokia) phone with GRPS and bluetooth. Nice!13:09
dwd_matthias_: Because you'll scratch the screen?13:09
_matthias_mine does not work at all.... not even the bt connection between internet tablet and phone work13:09
_matthias_dwd: jeah ;)13:09
kulvedewaard: my siemens s55 works fluently with n800/77013:09
_matthias_when i had a s55 from my company it worked fine too ...13:10
Veggenmy SE k600i works.13:10
JaffaAs does my SE T630 (I've confirmed it works with the SE K800i too)13:11
maddlerJaffa: wanna laugh?13:12
Jaffaalways :)13:12
maddleryou remember the messed up address thing?13:12
Jaffa(I got a reply from Nokia this morning saying it was shipping to the correct address).13:12
konttoriKulve: thanks! So, it takse two days from herne-böring to helsinki. cool. I *might* get it on friday then.13:13
maddlerwell... THAT messed up address was what was PRINTED on the delivery form!13:13
maddlerI spent the morning among @ups mails and UPS phone cust service trying to rearrange the delivery to the right address...13:14
kulvekonttori: 01/11/2007 6:17 A.M. IMPORT SCAN13:16
konttoriSo, considering  01/24/2007   2:07 A.M.   EXPORT SCAN, it should arrive on 26th some time PM13:18
Jaffamaddler: oh, bugger.13:19
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maddlerJaffa: eh...13:24
maddler_MAYBE_ It'll be delivered in the afternoon...13:25
maddlerlooks like was playing with DB fields @nokia ;)13:25
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Jaffamaddler: someone should be shot.13:28
JaffaInteresting footnote in maemo-users email from Jakub:
konttoriJaffa: indeed. A very nice point. It's a good idea to make a compatibility project.13:31
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Jaffatigert: do the photos come from a straight flash (someone said they'd got that working already, but it was dog slow), or is it a special, targetted build?13:36
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dewaardwell, thanks all, I'll be off now but I'll certainly come back :)13:39
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valtsuhas someone tested pixel doubling with n800? meaning that is it working?13:43
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|tbb|shit happends13:57
|tbb|this morning my device goes on and off on and off million times13:57
|tbb|latest installing mplayer latest rls13:58
* mgedmin now has scratchbox 1.0 with targets for bora and scirrocco (sp?)13:59
Veggenmgedmin: A howto, please? (for those of us that plan to set up that some time soon ;)13:59
|tbb|do i need the usbcable from nokia to flash the device ? or is it possible with any other mini usb 2 usb cable?14:00
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Veggentbb: Any will do.14:00
kulve|tbb|: it's a standard cabel14:00
valtsuVeggen: download rootstrap, create a target and extract it manually14:00
valtsuVeggen: the toolchain is same so it should be pretty straight forward14:01
Veggenvaltsu: hmm, like before.14:01
mgedminVeggen: I used these instructions
VeggenIsn't there deb's of scratchbox et al nowadays?14:01
VeggenCan you use that to get the first one, then extend?14:01
mgedminafter setting up bora scratchbox14:02
kulveVeggen: one SB (from debs or from tar balls) and multiple target's in it14:02
* mgedmin actually passed qemu-arm-0.8.1-sb2 instead of qemu-arm-0.8.0-m2 to --cputransp14:03
valtsubut that pixel doubling... has anyone tried it with n800? like with mplayer or something...14:03
kulveyou can first create bora targets with the nice installer script from maemo and then the Movial's syslog instructions to create the scirocco target14:03
mgedminvaltsu: I've heard that n800 does not support pixel doubling14:03
valtsumgedmin: yeah me too, but the 770 app that works doesn't in n80014:03
kulvemgedmin: I think the newest qemu works best for the tablets14:03
valtsumgedmin: at least my "tester" reported so ;)14:04
kulvevaltsu: did you read the mgedmin's comment correctly..14:04
|tbb|could any one help me got a broken n800 now14:05
mgedmin|tbb|: how did you break it14:05
Veggentbb: just reflash? not that difficult.14:05
valtsukulve: yeah, didn't do so :(, so no pixel doudling...14:05
|tbb|mplayer installed14:05
|tbb|do i need the usbcable from nokia to flash the device ? or is it possible with any other mini usb 2 usb cable?14:05
|tbb|i asked b414:05
mgedminany cable should work14:05
c0ffeeany cable will do14:05
Veggentbb: eh...we already answered also :)14:05
kulve|tbb|: and you got 2 answers already. Now 314:05
mgedminthe documentation says flashing will not work if you connect the nokia through a usb hub rather than directly14:06
|tbb|sorry im blind and angry14:06
Veggenno need to be angry. Playing with new stuff on this level is bound to make it happen again.14:06
|tbb|thats weird but true14:06
VeggenJust make sure that next time, you know how to do it ;)14:06
s-ndh-cMDK: how did you build gtk-sharp? it fails to build in scratchbox, and i have no arm machine to try compiling it there, lupus told me to search the mono-devel archive, but i didnt find anything that got me closer to successfully build gtk-sharp for arm14:07
|tbb|not to install mplayer u mean?14:07
* mgedmin opens irc logs to find out about |tbb|'s problem14:07
Veggentbb: No, next time it will be another package.14:07
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kulvedsme reboots the device if some "important" daemon dies or dies too many times. This behaviour can be disabled and it may help the device to boot up, with some parts broken though..14:08
mitchelocs-ndh-c: is it possible to build and run mono apps on the n800?14:09
|tbb|kulve, what should i do?14:09
mgedminflashing always helps14:10
mgedminbut might be a pain when you need to restore everything from backups14:10
kulve|tbb|: flasher-3.0  --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset14:10
kulvebut even if it boots, you probably should just do backup and then flash the whole thing. Unless you know how to fix the real problem14:10
|tbb|k , good point14:11
s-ndh-cmitcheloc: yeah14:13
s-ndh-crun atleast14:13
s-ndh-ci have mono the latest mono compiled and just copied over via scp14:15
s-ndh-cworks well14:15
mitchelocs-ndh-c: run is good enough, is there a guide anywhere?14:15
s-ndh-cbut didnt manage to compile gtk-sharp for arm yet14:15
mitchelocdoes this include mono-UI apps??14:16
mitchelocgtk = the ui right14:16
s-ndh-cdidnt test windows.forms stuff14:16
mitchelocif it's easy to can you try it?14:16
s-ndh-ci riped that part out to save space as iam only going to develop stuff with gtk-sharp14:16
s-ndh-cbut i could try it after work14:17
mitchelocyou can still write a UI using GTK right14:17
mitcheloc(i'm still a linux noob)14:17
s-ndh-cyeah but i didnt manage to build gtk-sharp yet, but i have seen screenshots of a gtk-sharp app running on a n80014:18
s-ndh-cso it is possible i must be doing something wrong14:18
MDKs-ndh-c: what kind of erros you14:18
MDK're geting?14:18
MDKyou need to bootstrap for 2.614:19
s-ndh-cMDK: oh i took the gtk-sahrp 2.4.3 thing14:19
s-ndh-ci that the problem?14:19
mitcheloctoo bad it's not distributed on the n800 RTM14:19
MDKnot sure. But what's the error?14:19
s-ndh-cit was something with wapi14:20
s-ndh-csomething with semaphores14:20
s-ndh-ccant remember the whole thing14:20
s-ndh-cmaybe you can give me a short description of how you did it14:21
s-ndh-cbut only if you have the time14:22
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MDKs-ndh-c: are you trying to compile using emulated vm?14:31
MDKthis will not work...14:31
MDKqemu has too many bugs14:31
|tbb|thx kulve , now im back14:32
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kulve|tbb|: so, it worked? You got it booted up?14:33
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|tbb|first it hangs on the same part on the progressbar but later it goes on14:33
kulveit probably tries to restart some service couple of times and the gives up and continues14:35
kulveif you had syslog, you would see the reason..14:35
|tbb|howto check them14:36
|tbb|syslog isnt a part of the os7 image14:37
kulveyou can install syslog to the device as root (apt-get install sysklogd) and check the dsme stuff from /var/log/syslog. But you shouldn't do this unless you are flashing the device anyway and know what you are doing..14:37
kulvesyslog is in some maemo repo14:38
JaffaRight, that's it: my 770's now officially For Sale:
s-ndh-cMDK: is this devkit thing the way to go?14:43
s-ndh-cif yes i did something wrong there as it didnt compile with that too14:43
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s-ndh-cwill try around with that devkit thing after work, maybe i can get it working with that14:44
s-ndh-cor i just install all the deps on my n770 and compile the stuff there14:44
keesjJaffa, You don't want to gizmo with Ms Jaffa?14:45
florianjpetersen: hi14:46
c0ffeepersonally i think two internet tablets are better than one14:47
c0ffeebecause you can use one for useful stuff14:47
c0ffeeand the other for bricking it constantly14:47
dwdc0ffee: Tablet cluster.14:48
jpetersenhi all14:48
keesjYou can perhaps to p2p talking with them ,14:50
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Jaffakeesj: Mrs Jaffa isn't bothered, and we're strapped for cash at the moment. So selling the 770 meant I could buy the N800 :)14:55
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mgedminmy 770 has no dead pixels, but one live blue pixel14:55
c0ffeeand my 770 stylus looks used14:56
c0ffeevery used...14:56
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c0ffeesince i got my bt keyboard, i mainly use it for chewing on it14:56
s-ndh-cmgedmin: yeah same here, i have one pixel that blue allthetime14:56
keesjinz, nice the new new xterm15:01
keesjstarting irssi and switching with ctrl-p and ctrl-n is really great15:03
keesjthose are buttons on the right now15:04
s-ndh-cwow that looks great15:06
s-ndh-cis that for 770 or 800?15:06
s-ndh-cor both?15:06
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keesjthe 770 screen is quite brite :p15:08
s-ndh-cbut i have to get me a bt kb anyways15:09
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|tbb|kulve, yesterday i got a problem with leafpad, it just doesnt start anymore, Segmention fault15:18
|tbb|may this is the problem15:18
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s-ndh-cthis may be cause by either memory corruption or broken,inkompatible librarys or just bad coding15:19
kulve|tbb|: you shouldn't be able to easily mess up the important daemons..15:20
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zbenjaminis there a good tutorial about developing status bar plugins? The one in the maemo2.2 tutorial is not very long15:20
|tbb|i was running leafpad as root15:20
kulve|tbb|: then you can of course mess up things :)15:21
kkitoi compiled mplayer with xv support and without the 770 video output check.... In n800 xv is slow... like X11 or sdl video output, the 770 video output doesnt run in n800, bad image.15:22
kulvezbenjamin: read the tutorial, the status bar API and the source code of some existing plugins..15:23
kulvezbenjamin: it's not very complicated thing15:23
|tbb|i try to uninstall leafpad but it seems that it wont work15:23
zbenjaminkulve, i remember about a example plugin when developing on maemo1.1 is there something similar?15:23
|tbb|over the application manager15:23
kkitoi am testinbg with a 640x480 divx with mp3 audio15:24
zbenjaminor is the statusbar api the same as in 1.1?15:24
valtsu|tbb|: apt-get remove --purge leafpad as root in terminal?15:24
s-ndh-cyeah thats better15:24
|tbb|i will try15:24
s-ndh-cit will tell you where it dies atleast15:25
kulvezbenjamin: the API hasn't changed much.15:25
zbenjaminkulve, thx15:25
JaffaWoohoo, sold it to a colleague for 150 :)15:26
maddlerJaffa: hehehe... betrayer!15:26
kkitowhat is the best video codec that n800 can play natively with good frame rate?15:27
kkitoreal video?15:27
keesjJaffa, so no you can almost by a nokia keyboard15:27
kkitothere are a ac adaptor with more mah to charge the device faster?15:28
Jaffakeesj: I've got a stowaway already :)15:28
|tbb|it worked15:29
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|tbb|kluve any idea why i cant reboot my device now15:31
kulve|tbb|: no..15:31
|tbb|should i shoutdown from xterm or just pull the battery out15:32
kulvetry first from xterm..15:32
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c0ffeemarius vollmer has some strange views on programming languages15:43
mgedminwhich thread?15:45
mitchelockkito left, but i'm still interested in how to get a good frame rate out of the n80015:45
valtsusome people likes c better than c++...15:45
c0ffeeignored patches, ignored bugs15:45
robtaylormitcheloc: don't use mplayer?15:45
c0ffeeyes, i like c better than c++ as well15:45
mitchelocrobtaylor: i'm using the built in media player?15:46
c0ffeebut i also like asm better than c15:46
c0ffeeyet, i can see the advantages of higher level languages :)15:46
c0ffeesure, you can do everything in asm15:46
robtaylormitcheloc: oh, what are you trying to play?15:46
keesjI like ancient languages to , I like difficulty15:46
c0ffeeit takes a microsoft manager to claim a high-level language could produce faster code than assembler :)15:46
valtsuc0ffee: pervert...15:46
robtaylorc0ffee: its quite possible with a good jit15:47
c0ffeeand what does the jit generate?15:47
valtsuc0ffee: that's like saying that "I prefer boys" ;)15:47
mitchelocrobbtaylor: well it's not playing divx at all, i just threw an mpeg up that i had, ideally i 'd like to watch full length divx movies15:47
c0ffeevaltsu, perfectly ok if i was a girl, no?15:47
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c0ffeeanyway, need to fetch a new cup of coffee15:47
valtsuc0ffee: highly unlikely at nerdie channel15:47
robtaylormitcheloc: hmm, you'd probably need to build gst-ffmpeg15:48
zuhc0ffee: I would definitely date you if you were a girl :)15:48
keesjlet's try again, is is possible to run xnest on the 770?15:48
valtsuzuh: =)15:48
mitchelocrobtaylor: will that get me divx? i'm guessing no... so will gst-ffmpeg get me a better frame rate then?15:48
robtaylormitcheloc: divx is a type of mpeg415:49
ssvbkkito: 640x480 may be a bit too heavy for n800 without additional decoder optimizations, try experimenting with '-benchmark -nosound' option to see what takes more time, video decoding or video output (for different video output drivers)15:50
robtaylormitcheloc: so it'd be provided by the gst element ffdec_mpeg4, which is in gst-ffmpeg15:50
s-ndh-cmpeg is just a container , it doesnt say much about the codec the video stream is encoded with15:50
mitchelocrobtaylor: pardon the noob in me, (just got the n800), how would i install that?15:51
ssvbkkito: also '-endpos' option can be used to benchmark not full video but some starting fragment, I usually run benchmarks with '-endpos 100' option15:51
robtaylormitcheloc: with some difficulty15:51
VRec0ffee: I think it's the whole issue of community vs. nokia internal .. devel goes fast forward in the company but opening up towards community goes really slow - so external ideas drop dead because the separation..15:52
robtaylormitcheloc: I wouldn't be sure the N800 has enough oomph to play divx, tbh15:52
ssvbkkito: also check this thread for more benchmarking instructions and results from different devices:
mitchelocrobtaylor: i'm fine with converting it? i suppose that won't work either since it would result in a much larger file size?15:53
robtaylormitcheloc: yeah, convert it to something the N800 is docuemented to play15:54
kkitossvb, thanks i am going to do some tests :)15:54
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mitchelocrobtaylor: the standard mpeg i was able to play on the device was fairly choppy =/15:54
robtaylors-ndh-c: mpeg4 is a codec, mpegps is the container15:55
robtaylorwell, codec specification, tbp15:55
keesjthe doorbell , ups!15:57
robtaylormitcheloc: Supported file formats: Video: 3GP, AVI, H.263, MPEG-1, MPEG-4, RV (Real Video)15:57
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robtaylormitcheloc: downscaling the video would probably give you a speedup15:57
mitchelocrobtaylor: thats a good point, i'll try that :)15:58
robtaylormitcheloc: ooi, what happens when you try to play divx?15:58
mitcheloc"format not supported"15:59
mitchelocThis is divx over UPnP would that make a difference?16:00
robtaylorno idea :/16:00
mitchelocactually, maybe this isn't a divx, the file name actually says "xvid.avi" in it16:03
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robtaylormitcheloc: could be xvid in an avi container16:06
mitchelocrobtaylor: that sounds right, therefore it's not supported by the n80016:06
mitchelocthe marketing material might be misleading, it specifies supported formats, but not that the playback is choppy, we shall see after i figure out the downscaling :)16:07
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kkitossvb, do you want to take a look at my benchmarks?16:16
ssvbkkito: sure16:16
zuhmitcheloc: WHAT! Marketing material misleading! HOW CAN THAT BE! ;)16:19
keesjis the default webcam video inverted?16:19
keesjif I hold the device sideways I see myself upsidedown16:19
Jaffakeesj: It depends on how far rotated it is, AIUI16:20
nomiskeesj: the image flips if you rotate the camera of the N800.16:20
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keesjyes but it flips up and down and left an right, it's not like a mirror16:23
kkitowithout sound the frame rate is "acceptable"...16:23
keesjIf I touch my left ear the guy on the screen touches the right ear.16:23
nomiskeesj: hmm, maybe this is intentional to make you feel more comfortable, since most people are more used to look into mirrors.16:25
hapquestion: is it normal than youtube is slow, will there be some improvments later?16:27
keesjit is not like that. is is not like a mirror , but then if feels wrong, (I move the device to to wrong side if I go out of the screen)16:27
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keesjBut the screen is great,16:28
kkitossvb, then the xv video output is 2x faster than X11 ?16:28
keesjcan the sensitivity of the 770 be changed?16:28
nomiskeesj: well, that sounds as if the video is just what the camera sees.16:28
nomiskeesj: can you read text that you hold in front of the camera?16:29
* keesj is all red16:30
robtaylori'm pretty certain it doesn't flip left-to-right, as that's really quite intensive16:30
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ssvbkkito: yes, xv is really faster, but this video is just too heavy for decoding (it needs 35 seconds of cpu time for decoding this 20 seconds video fragment)16:38
nomisrobtaylor: I'd suspect that it is not more intensive than flipping both left-to-right and top-to-down like it does on turning the camera.16:38
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ssvbkkito: you can also try tweaking optimization options for mplayer to find the best combunation (current set of optimizations was tuned for Nokia 770), at least you can set more apropriate -mcpu16:39
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* shapr boings16:43
kkitossvb, ok i try it later... :)16:43
ssvbkkito: it is unlikely to help for this file though, but the other may play better :)16:44
|tbb|kulve,  could it be that the no-life-guard reset function doesnt allow a reboot with the power button?16:45
shaprc0ffee: You can produce *optimal* code from high level languages.
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|tbb|shapr, does the battery has to be fully charged if i want flash the device n80016:51
robtaylornomis: it flips left-to-right when teh camera's upside down?! thats weird16:51
valtsu|tbb|: it doesn't take that long so no16:51
nomisrobtaylor: it has to rotate the image of the camera for 180 degrees, which is the same as flipping top/down *and* left/right.16:52
nomis(assuming that this does not happen in hardware, which I doubt)16:52
shapr|tbb|: It probably doesn't have to be fully charged, but it's definitely a good idea :-)16:52
SonejIs it possible to mount my usb memory stick on the N800?16:53
dwdSonej: Probably not.16:53
nomisSonej: it is probably possible, but not really easy.16:53
shapr|tbb|: Also, specific charge patterns in the beginning will increase the life of your battery.16:53
dwdSonej: It can, if hit hard enough with a suitably big stick, do host-mode USB, but it cannot supply power.16:53
shapr|tbb|: I think other #maemo people said that Lithium Ion batteries work best if they start out with a full charge, full discharge, and full charge.16:54
shaprI'll ask wikipedia what it thinks about Lion batteries.16:54
Sonejhaha i see...16:54
dwdSonej: So you could do it if you put it into host-mose USB, *and* supplied power externally, which involves a bit of soldering and a powered hub.16:54
mgedminSonej: dwd: the N800 does not have USB host support16:54
Juhaz|tbb|, it doesn't really matter but you absolutely don't want to run out of power in the middle of flashing16:54
Juhazwell, unless you enjoy bricks16:54
haphow long does it take before a full charge?16:54
mgedminthe hardware doesn't allow it16:55
dwdmgedmin: Oh? They stripped it?16:55
shaprmgedmin: Is it different from the 770's USB support?16:55
mgedminthat's what I saw on the mailing list from someone with a address16:55
|tbb|really could u brick a device to dead forever?16:55
shaprhap: It took me a few hours to charge my 770 the first time.16:55
haptook me shorter i think16:55
mgedmin|tbb|: try a hammer16:55
Sonejsoldering, thats to much work :P16:55
|tbb|with flashing16:55
Juhaznot forever, but well enough that it's not recoverable without cold flashing equipment in service16:56
shapr|tbb|: Yes, you could really brick it permanently. From what I've read if the NOLO part made it over you could restore a 770 from those flat pins next to the battery. But I haven't seen an N800, does it have those too?16:56
mgedmin|tbb|: it is possible to brick it with flashing -- if it writes half of the boot loader and then the battery dies, I think16:56
nomismgedmin: oh? That would be a pity.16:56
|tbb|and yes16:56
mitchelocjust plug it in?16:56
shaprI bricked my iriver digital music player :-(16:56
|tbb|he has this serial connectors16:57
hapfor my n800 i mean16:57
shaprNokia has a smarter system than iriver, there's a tiny boot loader segment (NOLO == NOkia LOader) at the beginning of each firmware image.16:58
Jaffamgedmin: the latest theory on ITT is that that is referring specifically to a particular part of the USB OTG spec, and that compiling a kernel with USB host support would result in the same functionality as the 770. No-one's tested that though.16:58
mgedminthat would be cool16:58
mgedminbut I'm pessimistic16:58
kulve|tbb|: I don't know for sure, but I would guess that it should boot even with the lifeguard reset disabled16:58
|tbb|yes but the button doesnt work from xterm no problem16:59
Takyeah, I saw the same thing @ mgedmin16:59
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robtaylornomis: no, it only needs to flip top-bottom16:59
robtaylornomis: see if you can read text in teh distance...17:00
shaprI sort of wish Nokia would release compact maemo hardware that does not include a screen for use in robots, home automation, etc.17:00
robtaylorshapr: there's a lot of arm boards out ther eyou can use for that17:00
|tbb|will the repositorys saved while doing a built in backup17:00
robtaylorcheck out gumstix or the stuff from
robtaylorshapr: (simtec also provide their boards with debian installed and full hardware support in mainline kernel)17:01
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Veggentbb: Nope, and not all of your home directory either.17:02
Veggen(only what's under MyDocs, right?)17:02
nomisrobtaylor: my guess is that you are confused  :)17:02
shaprrobtaylor: Yeah, I've seen balloon hardware too, but I'd like to be able to dev on my N770 (or N800 when I get one) and then deploy directly.17:03
robtaylornomis: my guess is that you are17:03
robtaylornomis: when you turn teh camera over, left is still left17:04
robtaylornomis: when pointing outwards what the camera sees is what you see17:04
VeggenI hate this.17:04
robtaylornomis: when the camera is turned in, the image is flipped top to bottom17:04
shaprOk, Wikipedia says many useful things about Lion batteries. So many that I'll create a MaemoWiki page instead of pasting lots of lines to #maemo17:05
VeggenI hate it when others are late at planning something that's gonna happen on a production deployment.17:05
VeggenAnd I hate even more that I'm no better myself ;-)17:05
dwdrobtaylor: By the way, you mentioned mirrors earlier - why do mirrors swap left and right, but not up and down?17:05
shaprVeggen: amen :-)17:05
robtaylordwd: mirrors do no swapping :P17:06
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nomisrobtaylor: imagine having a standalone camera pointing to you. Now you rotate the camera around the "left-right" axis as you'd do with the camera in the N800. To get a "regular" image again you have to rotate the camera 180 degrees around the axis pointing along the objective, right?17:06
dwdrobtaylor: Awwww. You spoil my fun.17:06
Takmirrors only swap if they're poorly implemented17:07
dwdrobtaylor: (But actually, they do swap forward and backward, of course)17:07
mitchelocmeh, the camera low-light, sucks anyhow, especially the angle! :(17:07
robtaylornomis: nope, when the camera is pointing towards you, the top of the camera is pointing at the bottom of your face17:07
mgedminmirrors swap front and back17:07
robtaylornomis: so it just flipps top to bottom17:08
zbenjamini created a statusbarlib like in the maemo2.2 tutorial.And tried to load it with dbus-send but it doesn't come up.  The problem is i get no error messages about this. Where can i have a look why it isn't working?17:08
robtaylornomis: i deally it would have ben great to make it act like a mirror, but to do that we'd have needed to flip left-to-right17:08
robtaylornomis: but that's too intensive17:08
nomisrobtaylor: it is not intensive. Why should it be?17:08
JaffaHmm, my UPS tracking hasn't updated in 19 hours.17:09
dwdnomis: Pixel order.17:09
dwdnomis: A vertical flip is done line-by-line, it's a lot simpler.17:09
robtaylornomis: also the image is in yuv17:09
hapI don't get it, on my new N800 in the application tools to manage apps, i see only 3 apps to install17:09
* hap wants xterm17:09
nomisrobtaylor: now, thats totally unrelated.17:09
robtaylornomis: nope, look up what yuv looks like and think of the algorithm to flip left-right17:10
nomisdwd: my point is, that if you rotate the camera in the 770 you have to flip both directions to get an image that is correct (e.g. text stays readable).17:10
robtaylorthen calculate the memory bandwidth required, and you'll see why it doesnt do it17:10
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zbenjaminany suggestions about my statusbar plugin is not loading?17:10
dwdnomis: If you rotate the camera in a 770, you have to have good imagination. :-)17:10
nomisdwd: huh?17:11
dwdnomis: N800, perhaps?17:11
nomisoh right  :)17:11
SonejWith the zoom buttons, can i go fullsreen on a webpage? (no n800 menus)17:11
trickiehap: you need red pill mode17:11
* robtaylor leaves someone else with a good visual imagingation to argue with nomis ;)17:11
trickiethen you will see the full list of .debs17:11
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haptrickie: which is ?17:11
||cwSonej: ther'es no "full screen" button like on the 770?17:11
nomisrobtaylor: want to argue transformation matrixes with me?  :17:12
haptrickie: i feel i should have read something online, which I didn't yet17:12
robtaylornomis: i'm telling you what the implementation is and the reasons for it17:12
Takhap: also, did you add the garage repositories?17:12
trickiehap: check out the wiki17:12
trickiealot of info if you dig around17:12
hapah ok, thanks17:12
hapTak: i am doing right now17:13
robtaylornomis: i'm not hypothesising17:13
robtaylornomis: if you want the details, look at the stream-engine source code17:13
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nomisrobtaylor: so you're telling me, that filmed text on a paper becomes unreadable when the camera in the N800 gets turned around on the N800?17:14
trickiehap: that link is in french17:15
|tbb|kulve, flasher-3.0  --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset how do i reset this17:15
hapfrench is fine17:16
hapthanks :)17:16
robtaylornomis: no, and i've never said that17:16
|tbb|french girls are much more fine17:16
nomisrobtaylor: then I don't understand what you mean by "just flipping top and bottom".17:16
kulve|tbb|: zuh's advice: --clear-rd-flags17:17
robtaylornomis: think about the mapping of scanlines of the camera to the scanlines of the screen17:17
dwdnomis: Right. Imagine you've written some text on clear plastic.17:17
nomisdwd: I am not talking about clear plastic.17:18
dwdnomis: Now point your imaginary camera at it.17:18
nomisI am talking about the image as sensed on the CCD and the transformations it undergoes on its way to the screen.17:18
dwdnomis: Rotate camera and clear plastic through 180 degrees, like the N800 does. Text is now "upside down".17:18
haptrickie: even with the redpill, i still hae only 2 apps for my N800 to install17:19
hapsuck :)17:19
hapcan I safely install xterm for the N800 ? ?17:19
shaprOk, here's what I came up with -
trickiehap: you have a the maemo and maemo extras repos in sources.list?17:19
haptrickie: aah sorry17:20
kulvehap: you can safely install Nokia signed packages :)17:20
dwdnomis: Now, the camera will show the entire image upside down, including the text.17:20
hapkulve: i guessed this one17:20
haptrickie: no, i'll add them, sorry.17:20
trickiehap: np17:20
shaprDoes the N800 have a position sensor for EXIF orientation data?17:21
nomisdwd: do you mean after the N800 flipped the image?17:21
nomisdwd: or did the position of the clear plastic in relation to the objective-axis change?17:22
Jaffahap: you need to add repositories, not enable red pill mode. Enabling red pill and not knowing what you are doing is a recipe for disaster in the future.17:22
dwdnomis: No - forget the N800's flipping for a moment.17:22
nomisdwd: ok.17:22
hapJaffa: ok, shall I add as application catalog ?17:22
nomisdwd: I right now imagine a camera with a clear sheet of plastic mounted at the objective.17:22
nomisdwd: moving the camera in any way does not change the image of the plastic.17:23
dwdnomis: Can you picture that so far? And the resultant image? Upside-down camera, upside down image.17:23
nomisdwd: I am unclear about how exactly you rotate the camera and the plastic. Independently?17:23
nomisdwd: or is the plastic mounted in a fix relation to the lens?17:23
dwdnomis: The latter.17:23
Jaffahap: I can't remember - there's lots detailed on the wiki
robtaylornomis: look, just run gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src ! xvimagesink and you'll see17:24
nomisdwd: ok, then moving the camera around won't change the recorded image at all.17:24
nomisrobtaylor: I am talking math here.17:24
hapJaffa: ok, just found it.17:24
robtaylornomis: i'm talking actu17:24
robtaylornomis: actual reality17:24
dwdnomis: Feh. Now you're getting me confused. :-)17:24
nomisrobtaylor: look, if we talk an arbitrarily constructed imaging pipeline I have no clue what we are talking about and what component does what.17:25
zbenjaminwhere can i look for erros when my statusbar plugin does not load? It's the plugin from the tutorial...17:25
robtaylornomis: that takes the input from the camera and displays it on the screen17:25
hapJaffa: worked perfect, thanks17:25
haposso-xterm i'm coming to you17:26
TakJaffa: so red pill mode is some kind of time-travel mechanism?17:26
robtaylornomis: do that and point the camera at yourself17:26
robtaylorand you'll be able to understand what the mistake is in your thinking17:26
kulvezbenjamin: in SDK? or in device?17:27
zbenjaminin SDK17:27
kulvein SDK you should see the maemo-af-desktop output on the console17:27
* nomis draws some pictures.17:28
zbenjaminkulve, i try to load the plugin with dbus-send17:28
hapJaffa: the redpill mode looks better to me, at least i can install more packages :]17:28
zbenjaminbut i cannot see any output17:28
trickiehap: If you are used to apt-based systems then yeah i like it better too17:28
trickiehap: else listening to Jaffa might be a good idea17:29
hapyou bet i prefer apt-get17:29
JaffaSome of those packages will mean your device needs reflashing or entering a reboot loop.17:29
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Jaffaespecially an equivalent of `apt-get upgrade' (certainly with OS 2006)17:29
hapJaffa: well, it's only a toy so far, not an important device with datas on it, i'll reflash if needed17:29
hapJaffa: but i'll remember not doing apt-get upgrade17:30
jcml_dwd: ping17:30
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zbenjaminkulve, my plugin is names libkioskcontrol.lib and i send the string kioskcontrol with dbus17:30
Jaffahap: fair enough - I'm just worried by the number of people being advised to enable RedPillMode when it's designed for techies :)17:30
dwdjcml_: pong17:30
kulveshouldn't it be .so17:30
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hapJaffa: i understand, and i agree17:30
jcml_How's Telomer going?17:30
trickieJaffa: i just assumed anyone here is kinda techy17:30
shaprI still wish Nokia would offer the firmware debs in an accessible repository. I'd like to remove the localization packages I don't use, but sometimes experiments along those lines breaks my device.17:30
zbenjaminsorry .so17:30
trickieJaffa: enough to know that playing with fire can burn you17:30
jcml_I'm just going back over the past month or two of -devel and -users, and came across your email on the 9th.17:31
hapthis N800 is a very nice device, but I used it only for few hours and I already have marks on the screen, using the sylet.17:31
kulvezbenjamin: you might want to add some debug prints to maemo-af-desktop to see what's going on..17:31
Takhap: eek!17:31
dwdjcml_: Well, it's going okay - busy with "real" work at the moment, but it's just about usable for very basic email reading and replying.17:31
|tbb|hap thats because there is a screenprotector on it17:31
|tbb|i was wondering the same17:31
hap|tbb|: i wondered if I should remove that screenprotector, or not17:32
hapshall I just leave it as a protector?17:32
|tbb|what i dislike is the battery consume17:32
hapand then i know i'll change it later when there is too much marks17:32
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maddlerhap... buy a screen protector...17:32
maddlerhap: I bought nine (for 770) on ebay...17:33
hapmaddler: to change the default one ?17:33
maddlerabout 10E I think...17:33
maddlersearch for duratec...17:33
mitchelocThe n800 comes with a screen protector in the box, i just left it on17:33
hapyeah, i'll do  the same. duratec, i'll remember17:33
maddlerhap: no... it overlap the screen...17:33
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jcml_dwd: I really like the idea of a GPRS-friendly MUA, and am going to give it a good kicking over the next couple of weeks, and just wondered if there was any specific area that you'd appreciate feedback ...17:33
hapmaddler: i meant to change the default screen protector17:33
zbenjaminkulve, you mean hacking the source?17:34
haphaha xterm on the N800. All I need now is sshd and i'm all set i guess.17:34
maddleryep... the default one become scratchy kinda easy...17:34
Jaffatrickie: you'd hope, but we've had some extreme newbies asking very basic questions about stuff before. And it doesn't take long for stuff to get from here to the forums, which *is* read by non-techies ;-)17:34
hapmaddler: ah ok, i'll get new onees then17:34
zuhzbenjamin: Yes, he means that17:34
trickieJaffa: true true... never thought about the quick dissemination of info17:34
maddlerhap: try dropbear on
maddlerand tell me if it works...17:35
hapdon't worry, thoses informations won't leave Internet.17:35
jcml_Isn't the point of the visible pull-tag on the 800's screen to queue you to remove it?17:35
maddlerotherwise I'll have to make a new package asap... ;)17:35
trickieJaffa: i will refrain from offering people pills :)17:35
trickieJaffa: ha ha17:35
jcml_(mine's not here yet:-)17:35
Jaffatrickie: :)17:35
dwdjcml_: Well, it's possible you'll run into a bug or two, and if you've any critical feature requests, those would be good too.17:35
hapmaddler: well i'd rather like to get opensshd :)17:35
Jaffahap: we push you over the edge if you do ;-)17:35
zbenjaminokay i will have a look thx17:36
dwdjcml_: What servers would you be pointing it at? (Do Clara have IMAP services?)17:36
maddlerhap: ok... I'll have to wait for my N800 to arrive then...17:36
jcml_dwd: ok - general bug reports and real world feature requests coming your way as&when ... :-)17:36
jcml_dwd: We do run IMAP - is there any server-side requirement?17:37
hapbtw, I was surprised to not have "velocity" with the stylet when browsing, like the iPhone demonstration17:37
hapsomething when you're at the bottom of a 10 pages long HTML website, and want to more up faster17:37
hapyou see what I'm saying?17:37
maddleriPhone... bleah... iHate! ;)17:37
dwdjcml_: IMAP4rev1 is the (real-world) base requirement. But the more extensions the better the performance, as a general rule.17:37
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maddlerwhat I'd _REALLY_ need is a good imap client...17:38
jcml_dwd: So Lemonade isn't a prereq?17:38
maddlerlooks like a mutt port is on it's way... :)17:38
kkitothere arent any tiny imap client for linux that can be ported to maemo?17:38
dwdjcml_: No. It'll just take advantage of it if you have it.17:38
|tbb|anyone got the new mplayer rls installed on a n800?17:38
hapmaddler: but that aircrack looks good to me17:38
maddlerhap: good... :)17:38
hapi'll add your repo17:38
maddlerno garbage?17:39
kkito|tbb|, i'am building a mplayer for the n80017:39
maddlerno repo right now... only direct download...17:39
hapah ok17:39
jcml_dwd: Cool.  I'll see if I can get a lemonade-capable imap proxy on my office machine ... any suggestions?17:39
hapmake one, easier access :)17:39
kkitowith xv enabled and arm11 gcc optimitzations17:39
maddlerhap: on 770 because of some problems with wifi drivers you get some garbage...17:39
hapmaddler: how long aircrack takes to open a wifi ?17:39
kkitoif you want i can share with you17:39
hapah ok17:39
maddlernew aircrak release (as well as newer kismet) fixed that...17:39
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hapnew aircrach which you didn't package yet i assume?17:39
|tbb|kkito, r u able to play wmv files?17:40
kkitodepending on the video and audio codec17:40
maddlerhap... yep...17:40
hapmaddler: is making .deb from existing source just dpkg-buildpackage and fixing some bugs, in general, within the SDK ?17:40
maddlermaddler: I think a new package will arrive soon...17:40
hapmaddler: have you tried to crack easy wifi network with aircrack on the 770, how long does it take?17:41
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zbenjaminbtw can i use DBUS messages on the SDK?17:41
maddlerhap: if I recall correctly I had to fix some deps too...17:41
|tbb|the latest hangs while trying to play wmv files still after asf file detected17:41
onionany pointers on how to use gstreamer to play game sfx ? every howto is always about playing a single file start -> end17:41
maddlerhap: I only used 770 to colletct data... which then I processed on a stronger PC17:41
hapaah i see. I'm more interested about network on site, than cracking later17:42
hapjust to check email right away17:42
dwdjcml_: The only Lemonade-enabling proxy I know of is Isode M-Box, run in gateway mode.17:42
maddlerhap: cracking on 770?17:42
maddlerhehehe... maybe with an open network... ;)17:42
hapmaddler: i heard cracking was much faster theses days, i was hoping....17:43
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||cwdesktop cpu's are much faster too17:43
||cwand laptop17:43
c0ffeeshapr, sure, but you can also generate optimal code from assembler :)17:43
maddleryep... but you need _SOME_ data...17:43
hapi thought generating random packets was making it much faster17:43
maddlerand cracking requires a lot of CPU...17:44
ssvbkkito: make sure to enable vfp as well, using softfloat would be definitely bad for wmv17:44
shaprhap: Cracking is *much* faster these days, have you read the "The Final Nail in WEP's Coffin" ?17:46
jcml_dwd: Ta.  I'm seeing "eval" links, but not "and here's the source" ... any idea how closed it is? (apart from using a IETF standard, of course ...)17:46
hapshapr: heard of it, so was my question17:46
shaprc0ffee: I dunno, I'm beginning to think that high level code is important for efficiency.17:47
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hapare you supposed to stay connected as 'user' on the nokia, or can you create yourself an account and log in as that user ?17:47
shaprI just login as root.17:47
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dwdjcml_: Closed-source, I'm afraid, but very, very fast. (Although I'm employed to write bits of that, so I'm perhaps biased).17:47
shaprhap, here's the paper -
dwdjcml_: What IMAP server are you using, anyway?17:47
Takonion: you can look at the gstreamer driver for fceu ( )17:47
hapshapr: i'll read that, delicoused17:48
jcml_dwd: courier, I think.  lemme check ...17:48
s-ndh-cwow, does xmame actualy work?17:48
dwdjcml_: Oh. I thought you said an IMAP server.17:48
maddlerhap... there are some workaround which allow to log as another user... but generally yes, you log as user17:48
s-ndh-ci mean the cpu fucking slow, what type of machines can be emulated?17:48
Taks-ndh-c: if not, I've been wasting my time ;-)17:48
shaprhap: The source for the cx3110x wifi driver for the Nokia 770 is available, and appears to allow raw 802.11 packet injection. It does not appear to allow reading packets at the same time as injecting them (much like standard 802.11 packet injection setups). I haven't tried it myself, of course. That would be illegal.17:49
Takobviously the more powerful machines can't be emulated at high speed17:49
s-ndh-cTak: does it run neogeo stuff?17:49
s-ndh-clike metalslug17:49
hapshapr: of course. Thanks for the info17:49
jcml_dwd: I did.  Courier imapd with a Maildir backend.17:49
maddlershapr: yeah... sure... I never tried too... ;)17:49
TakI haven't tried metalslug17:49
shaprmaddler: :-)17:50
Takneo geo was an 8bit console, right?17:50
Jaffashapr: it wouldn't be illegal if you were pen-testing your own WLAN17:50
shaprThat's a good point.17:50
dwdjcml_: Hmmm... My code will work with Courier, I think, but it's slower than using an IMAP4rev1 server.17:50
nomisdwd, robtaylor:
dwdjcml_: Of course, it's possible they've fixed the bugs.17:50
JaffaSo, so that I can pentest my own WLAN, anyone got the 770 working with the stuff described in "The Final Nail in WEP's Coffin"?17:51
dwdJaffa: Mine's easy to pentest. I leave it open.17:51
Jaffadwd: :)17:51
s-ndh-cTak: the cpu of the neogeo is a motorola 68000 its 16bit i think17:52
maddlerJaffa: right... and it wasn't your fault if THAT other network was SO close! :D17:52
Takwell - I'll try one next time I get a chance17:53
s-ndh-cTak: cool17:53
Takunless you'd like to try one first ;-)17:53
jcml_dwd: I'm sure I can put a 4rev1 proxy close to the server :-)17:53
s-ndh-cif this works on the 770 i can try it later today17:53
Takyeah, it's in the extras repo17:53
s-ndh-ccool will try that after work17:53
Takget xmaeme too, hildon launcher17:54
Jaffamaddler: I doubt any of my neighbours would have the clue to detect in an unauthorised access under the Computer Misuse Act.17:54
kkitossvb, -mhard-float ?17:54
s-ndh-cTak: ok will try to remember that17:54
Takthey should be adjacent in the app manager17:54
dwdjcml_: If you just want Maildir support in an IMAP server, by the way, Dovecot is much better.17:55
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jcml_dwd: Ta - there's lotsa legacy stuff in the way of a swapout, tho :-)17:57
mgedminI once moved 16 thousand messages (80 megs total) from one imap mailbox to another17:58
mgedminwith offlineimap17:58
mgedminthe bottleneck was dovecot's cpu usage on the server (a weakling pentium 2, 300 mhz)17:58
mgedminthe whole process took a week17:58
mgedmin(running offlineimap daily, suspending overnight)17:58
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mgedmincorrection, 400 mhz pentium II17:59
xorAxAxmgedmin: you could have a look at the cpu usage but didnt even dare to use mv? :)17:59
xorAxAxthat would have needed one hour at most :)17:59
hapJaffa: i doubt too17:59
xorAxAxif you had a sane fs17:59
dwdmgedmin: *nods* Dovecot isn't fast. Mostly Maildir's fault, actually - when the number of messages get big, it gets tricky. Btter to copy the files and reinject them, then duplicate the metadata.18:00
mgedminI was afraid to get offlineimap confused18:00
jcml_dwd: is the isode package a limited duration eval?  Or is it "don't pay us up to XXXk messages per day".  Or ... ??18:00
mgedminI did the mv part on my laptop18:00
mgedmindidn't realize it would take a *week*18:00
xorAxAxdwd: dovecot is fast for me and maildir is fast by design as well -- where is the problem?18:00
dwdjcml_: Limited duration, normally.18:00
xorAxAxdwd: if you have a file system that is O(n) on file operation, it sucks, though18:00
mgedmindwd: so, when do you think dovecot will support lemonade extensions?18:01
xorAxAxbut even ext3 learned what btrees are :)18:01
kjetilhoxorAxAx: they tend to slow Maildir _down_18:01
xorAxAxkjetilho: why?18:01
dwdxorAxAx: Hmmm.
kjetilhomy theory is that they make client software access blocks in a more random order18:01
kjetilhoif you do readdir order18:01
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kjetilhosince it will insert based on a hash.  traditional insertion is at the end18:02
xorAxAxdwd: it doesnt give any version info18:02
kjetilhoso it's has a corrolation with temporal18:02
xorAxAxpretty useless without it :)18:02
dwdxorAxAx: Benchmarks including Dovecot and Courier, and M-Box. I can get you the version info if you like.18:02
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xorAxAxdwd: if you can get them, recommend them to put it onto the page18:03
xorAxAxkjetilho: but thats only the case if the server actually does readdir()18:03
xorAxAxnormally, it shouldnt need to, right?18:03
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xorAxAxin the mail moving scenario18:03
dwdxorAxAx: Those need redoing anyway. :-)18:03
kjetilhodepends on the IMAP commands you're sending, but you'll often ask for lists of unread messages, or just the count18:04
dwdxorAxAx: With Maildir, you do readddir() for examining flags, and all sorts of stuff.18:04
kjetilhoDovecot will keep a cache file, though.18:04
haphmm, why does it say "Enable RD mode if you want to break your device" when doing sudo gainroot on the xterm ?18:04
Takwasn't somebody saying something about .install files being autogenerated for apps on garage extras?18:04
suihkulokkithey have constatly typoed dovecot, so it's hard to take them seriously18:04
inzhap, because you don't have r&d mode enabled18:04
inzhap, try flasher --enable-rd-mode18:04
xorAxAxdwd: why do you need to read flags if you want to move mails18:04
mgedminhap: because you can break your device if you do random stuff as root, if you're not careful18:05
mgedmininnocent things like sudo apt-get upgrade may make it nonbootable18:05
hapinz: ah, i'll eave that for later then; i'm not confident enough. Just wanted to apt-get install ssh18:05
dwdxorAxAx: An IMAP COPY would need to, for instance.18:05
inzhap, you can install dropbear with the application manager18:05
xorAxAxdwd: why?18:05
nomisrobtaylor: does the PDF settle the issue?18:06
xorAxAxthe flags are cached18:06
shaprWhat's up with keeping debs for the device and incompatible debs for scratchbox in the same repository?18:06
shaprThat's just ... broken.18:06
dwdxorAxAx: Because the specification says to copy the flags.18:06
hapah no wait, i want sshd, not ssh :]18:06
hapinz: ok18:06
xorAxAxdovecot can even move mails in O(1) time18:06
xorAxAxby using hardlinks18:06
dwdxorAxAx: yes, but it still does the readdir().18:06
trickieinz: dropbear doesn't support dsa keys... at least i think so18:07
trickies/i think/i don't think/18:07
dwdxorAxAx: Or at least, if it doesn't, it's because it's cached the results. (Which is probably more likely to be the case).18:07
xorAxAxdwd: yes, thats my point18:08
xorAxAxso open is more common18:08
xorAxAxand open should benefit18:08
dwdxorAxAx: But if the cache fails, it'll still do a readdir(), and it'll quite possibly do readdir()s on certain commands anyway, depending on how it's implemented.18:09
|tbb|is that normal after flashing the n800 there is nomore repository under the application manager18:09
trickie|tbb|: yes18:10
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trickie|tbb|: well you should have the official nokia ones18:10
trickie|tbb|: IIRC18:11
|tbb|no there arent there thats why im asking18:11
hapmaddler: ok let me try your ssh server18:11
hapi really need one18:11
hapi m tired to hit this small screen18:11
mgedminoh yes, openssh is the first thing I install after reflashing18:11
hapbut stupid question, what pass will is use ?18:12
trickie|tbb|: they are here though -
mgedminhap: user root, password rootme18:13
mgedminhap: good idea to change it18:13
hapi guess so18:13
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hapmaddler: your dropbear gives me "impossible to install this application"18:14
kulvecheck the details in the app. mgr.18:14
trickiehap: apt-get install ssh18:15
mgedminI have a single-click install file for openssh for OS2006, but it only works if you enable red-pill mode18:16
mgedminsomebody should upload a user-installable openssh deb into maemo extras18:16
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hapmgedmin: yeah18:17
haptrickie: i can not sudo within xterm18:17
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maddlerhap have you installed openssh already?18:17
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hapmaddler: aah yeah i did, sorry.18:18
maddlerno problem... :)18:18
hapmaddler: i have both ssh and sshd, must conflicts18:18
trickiehap: then it is good to go18:18
trickiehap: there is one package IIRC18:18
hapaaah it works :)18:19
trickiehap: if installed the 'ssh' package , you should be able to login with u:root p:rootme18:19
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hapi'm stupid, i was looking how to start sshd, didn't think it's started by the package when you install it anyway18:19
trickiehap: i did the same18:20
hapgreat hehe18:20
trickiehap: :)18:20
onionTak: thanks18:20
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Takonion: if you're developing for the 770 specifically, I recommend esd, though - much lower latency for direct pcm writes18:20
hapnow I want nstx working on that small device18:21
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hapis it safe to install application through apt-get instead of from the device?18:21
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hap(throush an ssh connection)18:22
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mgedminno difference18:23
mgedminwhether you install through ssh or directly18:23
MacSlowGreetings everybody!18:23
maddlerhap: that's what I usually do :)18:23
mgedminthere is difference between installing apps as root and installing apps as user18:23
hapok, and if you run out of memory, can you just link /usr to a mmc card ?18:23
mgedmingreetings, MacSlow18:23
maddlerMacSlow: welcome!18:23
MacSlowhi mgedmin18:23
maddlermgedmin: can you install as user? :O18:24
mgedminin maemo, yes18:24
mgedminapt-get runs as non-root, but it limits your package selection18:24
maddlernever tried that...18:24
MacSlowPierre, hi :)18:24
mgedminto packages with Section: user/(anything)18:24
mgedminwhat's somewhat irritating is that apt-cache search/policy are also limited the same way: they don't see non-user packages18:24
maddlerI see...18:24
maddlerusing them as user you mean?18:25
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maddlerthe installation path won't change, I assume...18:27
mgedminno more /var/lib/installer nonsense18:27
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hapcan we remove all the locales we'll never use?18:28
hapyou must gain space with removing thoses18:28
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Takwow - the new app catalog is very ajax18:30
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kkitossvb, i added that flags... : -mcpu=arm1136j-s -mfpu=vfp18:31
kkitonow video playback is a lot beter. It can play my 640x480 divx ;) with few relantitzations in some scenes with high camera moves18:31
hapi can't wait for skype/video to be available18:32
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blubbelhi, I was making me root , over dbclient, after 2-3 hours suddendly, my network got down, and I restarted my Nokia 770. After that, the screen was not cracked, but you can t see the items now clearly, I knowed of this consequenz, so is there any way to "unbrick" the device?that the screen is working normaly again?18:36
|tbb|kkito are u talking of mplayer??18:37
kkito|tbb|, yes18:38
blubbelis there now no way to make it normally working again?..18:39
shaprhiya MacSlow18:40
nelsonTak: is "very ajax" good or bad?18:41
Jaffablubbel: sounds like the dreaded "White Screen of Death"18:41
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maddlerdamn... damn... UPS isn't arriving!18:41
Takneutral comment from my perspective - good or bad according to your interpretation18:41
blubbeland jaffa, could that one be fixed?18:42
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maddlermaybe reflashing?18:42
hapwhat nice PIM software shall I install on my N800?18:42
blubbelmaddler do you think it will be working again when I reflash it?18:43
maddlerhap: GPE-*18:43
maddlerblubbel: if it's a software problem I'd say yes...18:43
maddlerblubbel: if not... no...18:43
Veggenif it's the WSOD, only Nokia can fix it. Good news is, they will, no questions asked.18:44
maddlerhap: even if I'd like a more close integration among calendar and contacts18:44
Veggenalthough it can take some time.18:44
hapmaddler: says it's for mistral only18:44
blubbelmaddler I dont think its a software problem, because its booting up normal.only u cant see the icons and the stuff right..18:44
blubbelthank you veggen^^18:45
blubbelbut when I try it again to become root..this will happen again or?18:45
JaffaNo, if it is the WSOD it's a hardware problem caused by the reboot, not the becoming root.18:46
c0ffeebecoming root is not related to hardware issues18:46
nelsonrobtaylor: a left-to-right switch isn't quite intensive.  Make a 256-byte table that rotates pixels.  Then do a for(x1=0, x2=640-1; x1<640; x1++, x2--) { i = fbuf[x1]; fbuf[x1] = map[fbuf[x2]]; fbuf[x2] = map[i]; }18:46
Jaffamaddler: my package is still in Belgium but now says "Your package is on time with a scheduled delivery date of 25/01/2007" :-D18:46
maddlerhap: some apps are going to work anyway...18:46
maddlerYour package is on time with a scheduled delivery date of 01/24/2007.18:46
maddlerbut if it won't be here in the next 45 minutes it won't be delivered today...18:47
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kkitoups sux, it takes 7 days to transport the n800 to my home18:47
maddlerkkito: others are even worse...18:47
hapmaddler: it needs a nice PIM package with good integration between all18:47
Jaffamaddler: indeed. hopefully my address fubar is fixed18:48
hapmaddler: like my powerbook i'd say18:48
maddlerhap: right...18:48
maddlerbut right now gpe is the best one...18:48
Takkkito: plus it'll probably be broken when it gets there18:48
hapi'll wait for its release for bora, or compile it myself later if i can't wait18:49
nelsonrobtaylor: errrr, or something like that.  x1 only needs to go up to 319.18:49
kkitohap, gpe packages runs "ok" in bora18:50
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hapah ok18:50
kkitoand the other pim app (DejaPim) runs ok too18:50
Jaffahap: there are bora GPE packages announced already (according to Florian on maemo-dev)18:52
blubbelDo anyone know, where I can find a picture of the WSoD? Because I dont find anything with google....18:52
MacSlowCan somebody tell me what causes this "Inconsistency detected by rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!"18:53
MacSlowafter a fresh install of the scratchbox?18:53
suihkulokkiyou kernel sucks18:53
MacSlowwhat a pity18:53
suihkulokkidid you compile your own or are you using some distro's default?18:54
MacSlowdistro default one18:54
MacSlowI have not compiled my own kernels for "years"18:54
suihkulokkiwhat distro?18:55
hapJaffa: ok great18:55
hapaah the bomberman game is awesome18:55
MacSlowFC6, but using a FC5 kernel... as that is the only working kernel for the SATA-drive in this machine.18:55
|tbb|hab: but slow :(18:55
konfoo-fc6 is a pile18:55
MacSlowFurthermore I wonder what leads scratchbox to believe this "You have 1 other Scratchbox session running!"18:56
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Takstray qemu-arm processes?18:56
suihkulokkiMacSlow: using too old scratchbox with too new kernel18:56
MacSlowTak, I have not started any18:56
mgedminhap: is bomberman available in any repository, or did you install the .deb manually?18:56
konfoo-MacSlow: its a lockfile evidently that doesn't get cleared. a reboot fixed it. if you find the name of the file i would be curious to know18:57
MacSlowsuihkulokki, hm... but for the N770 I have here I can only use the scratchbox according to the documents on the maemo pages18:57
hapmdedmin : installed manualy18:57
hapbut i have no sound :(18:57
MacSlowkonfoo-, hm... inside scratchbox or in my normal environment?18:57
konfoo-MacSlow: no idea18:58
|tbb|mgedmin do u know there is a IRSS chat package for the bora18:58
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mgedmindunno, maybe -- did you mean irssi?18:59
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suihkulokkiMacSlow: no don't have to, the documentation sucks18:59
|tbb|yes sorry18:59
MacSlowkonfoo-, I certainly do have an idea.18:59
suihkulokkiMacSlow: btw. the vdso vs fedora thing is documented in google19:00
MacSlowsuihkulokki, oh now encouraging for a beginning maemo hacker :)19:00
konfoo-MacSlow: where is it then?19:00
Jaffa|tbb|: keesj has contributed an irssi package to mud. Hoping to have the first batch of mud-uploaded debs to extras this weekend.19:00
blubbelhave now someone a picture of the white screen of dead on the Nokia 770? I still dont find one ...I want to know if my nokia got the WSoD19:00
hapbut installing bomberman isn't such a great idea19:00
hapi feel like i'll braek the left buttons very quickly19:00
MacSlowkonfoo-, oh... that was meant to be a "don't" not a "do" sorry19:00
Takhap: I haven't broken the dpad on my 770 yet playing mame and nes games19:01
hapi brought so many joystick back on my amiga with dynablaster19:02
|tbb|tak what a bout the speed of nes emulator on the n77019:02
MacSlowah... echo 0 >/proc/sys/kernel/vdso19:03
Tak|tbb|: surprisingly, it's not bad - the sound tends to stutter a tiny bit, but overall it's pretty decent19:03
hapJaffa: i can't find Florian post on the dev list19:04
hapJaffa: do you have the link to the packages?19:04
|tbb|wiki tested application19:04
|tbb|under recent changes19:04
|tbb|tak then it would run smooth on the n8 i think19:05
Takhah, actually it's reported to run slower on n800 right now19:05
Takdue to lack of esd and lack of hardware-accelerated 2x scaling19:05
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Takwell, not lack of scaling, but lack of the 770's method of scaling19:06
Jaffahap: .install files are here
hapJaffa: great thanks19:07
Jaffahap: is the thread19:07
hapaah i was looking at the developers list19:07
hapyou said maemo-dev :)19:07
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|tbb|keesj, do u own  a n819:12
hap# apt-get install mount gets me an upgrade on busybox19:12
hapis that normal?19:13
maddlerdamn... looks like I paid 26E for nothing!19:13
mgedminhap: don't do that19:13
mgedminbusybox upgrades are notorious for breaking your system19:13
|tbb|for the one day delivering19:13
hapmgedmin: yeah, i wondered it was not normal19:13
hapmgedmin: that's why i asked :)19:14
maddlertbb... yes...19:14
mgedminthere is mount on the 770, and I assume on the 800 as well19:14
mgedminit is provided as part of the busybox package19:14
hapoh yeah there are, ok. mgedmin: and how to get wget ?19:14
mgedminfind it on the web :)19:14
mgedminthere is one somewhere19:14
haphehe ok19:14
mgedminjust a sec...19:15
hapwell there is no ftp, no wget, etc19:15
|tbb|hap go to wiki recent changes tested applications19:15
hapwget should be installed everywhere default19:15
nelsonblubbel: I've taken a screenshot of the WSOD:
mgedminwget is in here: deb mistral user other19:15
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hapmgedmin: ok19:16
|tbb|u wonder what anything there allready, may some packages u dont remind now19:16
mgedmincompiled for mistral, but I think it will work on bora19:16
|tbb|it works19:16
hapJaffa: thoses GPE packages looks to work so far19:16
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Taknelson: best. screenshot. ever.19:16
hap|tbb|: this wiki page will be usefull19:16
nelsonTak: LOL!19:17
tzzdoes anyone know how to test text input in Scratchbox?  It's REALLY annoying to reinstall a whole package just to see if the text keyboard pops up.19:17
dwdtzz: It does pop up in my scratchbox, when it should. Most of the time, anyway - sometimes it comes up in the wrong place, but a quick poke with a sharp stick fixes that.19:19
MacSlowWhat to make of this (especially mentioning "Linux") and that state of a OpenGL|ES/OpenVG driver for the N800?19:20
MacSlowdoes the Xserver coming with the OS2007 on the N800 provide such a driver?19:21
ferulono MacSlow :(19:22
hapwho said 2 days ago here he uses nstx on the nokia ?19:22
ferulono MBX for linux 2.6 at all19:22
bstockanyone know offhand good dimensions for a desktop imageon the 77019:22
kulveMacSlow: not much. AFAIK there no code in kernel to allow using the gfx chip in the OMAP core. Even if there would be, there's no (free) open gl es implementation for linux19:22
maddlerreading "your package is on time..." makes me pissed off!19:22
MacSlowferulo, kulve: too bad... and that's total crap... damn!19:23
feruloMacSlow: we should get that kind or kernel driver/drm/Xserver support19:23
kulveMacSlow: yep. AFAIK (again) that chip would be quite powerful..19:23
* MacSlow wonders why Nokia's R&D millions don't make this happen... 19:23
MacSlowthey surely have some tough compatition now19:23
MacSlowI just looked at the iPhone UI... transitions, effets, scaling, scrolling...19:24
ferulowell MacSlow nokia is not making those chips...19:24
MacSlowwith proper driver support that pretty easy to do19:24
feruloall we can do is poke people to get it19:25
dwd looks curious.19:25
hapcan I mount samba disk on the nokia ?19:25
MacSlowferulo, I know... but they are a customer of TI, IM and paying for those chips... they should be able to push them to provide drivers for the intended platforms Nokia builds with that hardware19:25
ferulobtw dws those drivers are for x86 kernel (closed sorces .so/.o files)19:25
dwdferulo: Ah, I was hoping by "source" they meant, well, "source".19:26
MacSlowthere goes another good argument _against_ closed source drivers19:26
Juhazthey might be able to beg a crappy proprietary driver for a few million, but I wouldn't hold my breath for anything open from a company whose press releases start with "a leader in system-on-chip intellectual property (SoC IP)"19:26
||cwhap: if the smbfs and/or cifs kernel modules are there, yes19:27
dwdJuhaz: Well, that's just like ARM, after all, who are perfectly open.19:27
hap||cw: ok i need to read how to change kernel i guess19:27
Juhazjust like jazelle? perfectly open. right.19:27
||cwhap: they might be there, I just havent' looked19:28
hapmount -t smbfs // /mnt/dir/ => no such device19:29
tzzdwd: the keyboard doesn't come up for the maemopad application.  Do I need to run it under SDK_ARMEL?19:29
tzzdwd: in other words, does the keyboard come up for the SDK_X86 target?19:30
mgedmintzz: which maemo do you have?  do you have the closed-source nokia binaries installed in it?19:31
tkohmm, I wonder where we'd be today if all the energy would be spent on doing stuff that's currently possible instead of wishing things were different19:31
tzzmgedmin: I just ran the Nokia SDK installer.  Haven't installed anything else.19:31
hap||cw: doesn't look like it, or i messed up19:31
||cwhap: looks like its'not there19:32
tzzmgedmin: Maemo 3.0, yes19:32
* mgedmin doesn't really know how to answer tzz's question... /me used xephyr last in maemo 2.0 times, and the virtual kb appeared there in the x86 target19:32
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||cwhap: what do you need samba for that scp can't do?19:32
tkomgedmin, the installation changed in 3.019:33
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tzzOK, dwd seemed to have some idea :)19:33
hap||cw: i'm on a windows workstation :]19:33
mgedmintko: talk to tzz, he has the problem ;)19:33
tkoif I've understood it correctly 2.0 used to have some binary blobs in the rootstrap, in 3.0 you need to run some script to get them19:33
hapcw i could use filezilla... thinking about it19:33
mgedminbut the maemo_3.0_sdk_installer... wait a sec19:33
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tzzit's really hard to debug the Emacs lack of a pop-up keyboard (which I'm trying to fix) without, you know, a pop-up keyboard...19:34
mgedmintzz: after your ran the installer you're supposed to fakeroot apt-get install maemo-essential inside the scratchbox target19:34
tkomgedmin, just trying to preemptively help you :)19:34
mgedminI installed bora today for the first time19:34
||cwhap: winscp19:34
mgedmins/bora/bora sdk/19:35
tkoI only have sardine originally upgraded from scirocco19:35
||cwhap: well, assuming you are running sshd on the nokia19:35
tzzah, I think it's "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-explicit", thanks mgedmin!19:35
Andy80I've followed this tutorial to install the maemo sdk. When I try to login I get this error: andy80@notebuntu:/$ /scratchbox/login19:35
Andy80ERROR: Scratchbox dir '/scratchbox/users/andy80//scratchbox/tools/bin' is missing!19:35
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Andy80how can I fix it?19:35
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mgedminAndy80: are you in the sbox group?19:36
tkoAndy80, sounds like the /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core script wasn't run19:36
hap||cw: i am.19:36
mgedmintko's answer is closer to the truth, I suspect19:36
hap||cw: filezilla is ok19:36
* mgedmin wonders if the world needs a yet another "how to install maemo sdk" tutorial19:37
Andy80mgedmin: how can I check if I'm un the group?19:37
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hapam I supposed to be able to read divx on the device, it says "codec not supported"19:37
mgedminAndy80: id19:37
haphow can I read thoses files (i bought legaly)19:37
Andy80yes I'm19:37
|tbb|kulve, the tool icon still appears under the nokia logo after reflashing it with a new image19:37
mgedminthen run the init script19:37
Andy80mgedmin: do I have to run it from root or from my "andy80" v?19:38
tkomgedmin, it would really be nice to have just one that would also be very useful19:38
mgedminif you have scratchbox 0.9.8, then it's sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start19:38
tkoinstead of being like 'in order to install scratchbox, install scratchbox'19:38
mgedminI can write up a very specific one19:39
mgedminscratchbox 1.0 on Ubuntu with maemo 3.0 and 2.1 side-by-syde19:39
Andy80mgedmin: I'm using ubuntu 6.10 and I'm installing the SDK for maemo 2.119:39
mgedminAndy80: did my suggestion to run sbox_ctl start help you?19:40
Andy80mgedmin: yes!19:40
Andy80mgedmin: now I'm logged :)19:40
tkois old news already?19:40
mgedminI do not remember if scratchbox 0.9.8 installed a /etc/init.d/ script or not...19:40
Andy80[sbox-HOST: ~] >19:40
Andy80Ok... I can continue following the howto!19:40
Andy80thanks :)19:40
Andy80I'll keep you updated ;)19:40
|tbb|is it possible to replace the very first boot logo?19:42
mgedminby the way, the script is very, very nice19:42
|tbb|which appears when o19:42
mgedminmy respect to whoever wrote it19:42
|tbb|push the power button19:42
Tak|tbb|: someone said it's hardcoded in the firmware19:42
tzzmgedmin: agreed, it's a nice piece of work19:42
mgedmin|tbb|: and the firmware is cryptographically signed, so you can't replace it19:43
tzzmgedmin: thanks for the SDK suggestion, I installed maemo-essential and the keyboard is showing up.19:43
mgedminwithout having nokia's secret key19:43
|tbb|they know why!19:44
|tbb|way to go :)19:45
maddlerok... MAYBE I'll get my n800 tomorrow...19:45
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maddlerand why?! because some idiot at Nokia messed up their systems!!!19:45
|tbb|set up ur scratchbox, maddler and taste something bora :)19:45
maddlerI'm too nervous to do anything...19:46
|tbb|they should give u the secret key for that pain19:46
maddlerand I spent all day here waiting for them!!!19:46
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* Tak hands maddler a beer19:47
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maddlerand I still read "Your package is on time with a scheduled delivery date of 01/24/2007." on UPS!19:47
* |tbb| hands maddler something to smoke from holland19:47
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maddlerhehe... that'd be apreciated...19:47
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maddlerok... that could have been worse if I paid full price... but... man... how can they be so... Windowsish!!!19:48
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maddlerand *of course* nokia don't even answered to my mails!19:49
Takmaddler: if you were in the US, you wouldn't even have gotten your code yet ;-)19:49
inzAs of 0.13.mh18, osso-xterm contains an editing dialog for the shortcuts19:50
|tbb|maddler they guys from nokia are still busy to replace the f words of your mail before they can read it :)19:50
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|tbb|ups there?19:53
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|tbb|i think maddler posted something19:54
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mgedmininz: what do you think about naming that thing a "sidebar" rather than a "toolbar"?19:57
mgedminit doesn't look like a typical toolbar19:57
|tbb|yeah i would prefer that too19:57
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Andy80mgedmin: first problem. with xephir.... the DISPLAY is set to :2 but when I star xephir I get this error: Xephyr cannot open host display. Is DISPLAY set?19:58
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mgedminAndy80: start xephyr *outside* scratchbox19:59
Andy80uhm... how?19:59
Andy80before loggin in?20:00
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mgedminopen a new xterm20:00
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mgedminor something20:00
mgedmininz: the key shortcuts stopped working after I edited them; and started working only after I restarted xterm20:00
mgedminknown bug?20:00
hapis that fine to run reboot on the nokia ?20:00
hapi messed up :)20:00
hapi ran kismet from ssh, => no more wifi connection => killal kismet from the nokia, but still no more wifi20:01
* |tbb| wondering why the interncard now changed to /media/mmc1 before flashing it was /media/mmc220:01
|tbb|ifconfig wlan0 down && ifconfig wlan0 up && iwconfig wlan0 mode managed20:01
mgedminyeah, reboot often fixes problems20:01
|tbb|should help20:02
hap|tbb|: aah, i don't see myself typing all that20:02
hapreboot is shorter20:02
|tbb|reboot could take very long, belive me20:03
hap|tbb|: i got time, np :)20:03
|tbb|mine was rebooting the whole morning :)20:03
hapmine just rebooted within 20sec20:03
Andy80mgedmin: it works! I can see the maemo interface :D20:03
|tbb|try to install some unstable packages then we see20:04
|tbb|plz backup ur data, if u need them:(20:04
hapaah kismet on the nokia, that rocks20:05
|tbb|if its stable then yes20:05
inzmgedmin, there must be something wrong then, I'll try to remember to look at it, if you're bored, you can write a ticket to ;)20:06
|tbb|how can i change the mmc slots20:06
|tbb|./media/mmc1 to /media/mmc220:06
myren_what wifi chipset does the n800 use?20:06
Veggenthat's one of those you can put in access point mode, not?20:07
Veggen(well, at least if you're lucky)20:07
|tbb|Veggen no way to change /media/mmc1 to 220:08
Veggenwouldn't it be impressive with an N800 as a WLAN-and-web-server, for demonstrations? ;-)20:09
mgedminhere you are: :)20:09
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Lyndonis it possible to put n800 work as bluetooth headset?20:09
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|tbb|Lyndon, not by now, the guys of bluez working on it, c0ffee told me20:10
|tbb|oh sorry, himself working on it20:10
|tbb|till his n800 arrive him20:10
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Lyndon|tbb|: thanks, nice to know :)20:11
maddlerelpaso: are you from turin?20:12
elpasonomis: near milan20:12
maddlerelpaso: ah... ok... mi pareva... :)20:13
maddleryour nick remembered me of a place in Turin... :)20:13
|tbb|Lyndon im just talking shit, i was reading first is it possible to pair a stereo bt headset  with n800 then i just read pairing it with a bt-headset but u mean something else. Sorry :( but ask c0ffee for that question if som1 knows it then he is tha man.20:13
hapaah GPE is so powerless compared to osX20:13
elpasoDoes anybody knows if red pill mode is necessary to install libglade2?20:14
elpasoor adding the is enough?20:16
etrunkoelpaso: you need red pill or run apt-get install from xterm as root20:17
etrunkoand also add repository.maemo.org20:17
|tbb|for what libglade2 is needed?20:17
elpasoMy maemo stars20:17
elpasoPeople have trouble installing it20:17
tkoumm, application installer should be installing dependencies automatically as long as necessary repositories are configured20:17
tkoor at least I think it should :)20:18
elpasoYou've got the point20:18
elpasoI have red pill mode enabled but most haven't20:18
etrunkotko: yes, it automatically installs20:18
elpasoOk, this is what I've imagined20:19
mgedminI think it is best to disable red pill mode as soon as you don't need it20:19
mgedminyou can always install packages with sudo apt-get install in xterm/ssh20:19
etrunkoelpaso: in this case you just need to add a dependency in your debian/control file20:19
elpasoYes, done this already. Is it just a matter of visibility the app mamager?20:19
etrunkoelpaso: yup20:20
elpasoOk, thanks.20:20
etrunkoit does not appear in the list but it is downloaded and installed automatically20:20
tkothe repository definitely needs to be configured.. I'm not sure about red pill mode, but I'd be surprised if it was needed20:20
etrunkobehind the courtains20:20
elpasoIt was just a doubt....20:21
etrunkotko: no need for red pill. definitely20:21
elpasoWhere can I find info on the .install file format?20:21
elpasoin the wiki?20:22
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mgedminelpaso: on maemo.org20:24
mgedmindevelopers -> documents -> maemo 3.0 application packaging guide or some such20:24
keesjand how can I grow my hardisk?20:24
mgedminas always it's easier to look for examples and then modify them20:24
Andy80mgedmin: I'm going to play a little with the new SDK, then I think I'll re-write the howto in Italian language. Do you think it could be usefull for other people?20:24
mgedminbut I would like to know if it is possible for an .install file to add more than one repository?20:24
mgedminAndy80: not for me, I don't speak Italian :)20:25
Andy80mgedmin: I mean for italian ppl :D20:25
mgedminmust be my .lt domain being confused with .it20:25
keesj(/me is getting tiered of du -k * | sort -n | tail -n 1 | xargs rm -rf20:25
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mgedminkeesj: that's like russian roulette!20:25
Andy80no no, I know that you're not italian :)20:25
hapwhat am I supposed to install to watch divx files ?20:26
keesjmelmoth, it aways ends up being a big directory , perhaps it needs a bit of tweaking20:26
keesjsorry that was for mgedmin20:27
|tbb|after using flasher the first time then i get a toolicon under the nokia logo also on booting it shows me the image specs, how can i remove this ?20:27
elpasoThanks all, must go now.20:27
nomis|tbb|: disable R&D-mode20:27
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keesjthe n800 browser feels faster,20:27
keesjfor gizmo I fell not difference,20:27
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|tbb|nomis could u tell me how? thats what i mad --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset20:28
mgedmin|tbb|: flasher-3.0 --disable-rd-mode20:29
* mgedmin was anticipating the question :)20:29
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Andy80mgedmin: the image on the left, in my emulator, is a bit scratched --> do you think I could have layout problems?20:29
MY how to full/hard format nokia n-gage qd20:29
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mgedminAndy80: dunno, but I think that's normal20:31
Andy80ok :)20:31
mgedminwell, sloppy-as-usual20:31
mgedminthe theme in maemo sdk was never updated since os2005 times20:31
mgedminalthough the theme engine changed -- I think that's what causes the white spots20:31
Andy80cool :)20:31
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mgedminis it just me, or did tapping suddenly started to require more force to register in OS2006.2?20:32
MacSlowehm... which rootstrap tarball contains the Xephyr server?20:33
mgedminI try to tap at the vkb, and some taps never register20:33
mgedminI didn't have this problem with OS2006.120:33
mgedminMacSlow: your desktop system is supposed to contain xephyr20:33
mgedminit's no longer included in maemo 3.0 rootstraps20:33
MacSlow"Xephyr is pre-installed in the rootsrap."20:34
MacSlowI am still on 2.1 not 3.020:34
mgedminthen I'm sure it's the i386 rootstrap20:34
MacSlowI am using this Maemo_Dev_Platform_rootstrap_Nokia_Binaries_v2.1.tar.gz20:34
Andy80how do I remove the full screen in the emulator?20:34
MacSlowas I could not find the image mentioned in the wiki pages20:34
mgedminthat's not a rootstrap...20:35
MacSlowoh that news to me20:35
mgedminMacSlow: here's the 2.1 rootstrap:
MacSlowthe only thing I found with "rootstrap" in its filenmae20:35
|tbb|tzz, ive dl latest xterm how could i edit the sidebar buttons20:36
|tbb|from menu i couldnt found it20:36
Andy80F6 seems not to work :(20:37
MacSlowmgedmin, so the target I created initially is for the bin then?!20:37
mgedmin|tbb|: edit -> shortcuts...20:37
* mgedmin shrugs20:37
* |tbb| wonders why he doesnt have that20:37
mgedminyou normally don't need the Nokia_Binaries tarball20:37
mgedminmaybe if you install the -minimal rootstrap version, and then decide that you do want the closed-source binaries after all...20:37
mgedmin|tbb|: older xterm?  check that you have the .mh18 version20:38
MacSlowhm... how can I savely delete that fir SDK_PC target now?20:38
MacSlowbefore I proceed with the correct rootstrap image20:38
|tbb|yeah there was something wrong while upgrading it over the appmanger20:38
* MacSlow is a bloody scratchbox greenhorn20:39
mgedminMacSlow: sbox-config --help, look for "reset" which means "remove everything within it"20:39
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mgedminscratchbox 1.0 is much nicer than 0.9.820:39
MacSlowmgedmin, I'm still with the 770 and the latest for this is
MacSlowis it not?20:41
MacSlowor is the wiki out of date there too?20:41
mgedminsome people use 1.0 anyway20:41
mgedminso far nobody found any compatibility problems20:41
mgedminthere's supposed to be a maemo 2.2 "soon" which will officially support sbox 1.020:41
MacSlowmgedmin, well I stick with the older stuff... no need to ruin my nerves more than needed atm20:43
mgedmingood strategy20:43
MacSlowferulo, poing20:46
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feruloMacSlow: ping20:46
haphmm, mplayer doesn't work with my divx :(20:48
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inzmgedmin, thanks20:50
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|tbb|how can i delete a line in vi ?21:02
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Takhmm - if I have a pointer to the current osso state, will modifying the members of the struct have any effect on the actual device state?21:02
tkoTak, no21:02
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Takmeh, is there any non-hack way for devs to do so?21:03
|tbb|why the history of input from xterm sometime filled and sometimes not?21:05
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AaronL2Tak:  no official response to my e-mail to maemo-developers, but I got an unofficial response from one of the Nokia guys who said that I was on the list, so, perhaps it is just taking longer for non-European devs21:11
TakI wonder if it would be a faux pas for me to ping him as well21:12
AaronL2Tak:  it would have been nice to get an official response (i.e., yes, there is a delay, but oh well)21:12
TakI really don't mind if it takes a while; it'll just help me to plan my development if I know I can count on having a machine21:12
AaronL2I noticed that you put a bora package up for xmame on your garage site21:13
Takyeah, there are bora packages for xmame and fceu21:13
AaronL2but, it is listed in a different package group as the 770 package21:13
AaronL2so, when you go to the main page, all you see is the bora package21:13
AaronL2and you don't see the package for the 77021:13
AaronL2you have to go to all files to see the 770 package21:13
AaronL2which you have to do anyway, but I avoided this by grouping all the latest VNC viewer packages under the same group21:14
Takyeah, I suppose I should do that21:14
AaronL2it's a minor thing21:14
Takyeah, but it does make sense that it'd be confusing/misleading21:14
AaronL2also, I put N800 in the package name instead of bora21:14
AaronL2I think users may not be familiar with the code names21:15
keesjthey should understand IT200721:15
keesjthat would still be "right"21:15
AaronL2maybe, maybe not21:15
AaronL2if they didn't update the OS21:16
Taktbh, the bora packages are more for testing than general consumption21:16
AaronL2and still have what came with it21:16
keesjbut they really should not have to choose21:16
AaronL2they might not understand the distinction21:16
AaronL2yes, I wish .install files were smarter21:16
AaronL2and would pick the right package based on the OS21:16
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Takis the next 770 os release supposedly going to support .install?21:17
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AaronL2current 770s support .install files21:17
AaronL2plus, garage will automatically generate a .install file21:17
AaronL2when you upload to the repository21:17
AaronL2it will generate mistral, scirocco, or bora-specific .install files depending on which repository you upload to21:17
Tak.install does have the deb/deb3 thing to supply different repos for different versions21:18
AaronL2hmm, then maybe it's just a matter of getting the proper support in garage21:18
|tbb|--enable-usb-host-mode could i set the usb to host mode with the flasher?21:19
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Takok, moved bora packages into vanilla release groups21:21
TakI'm going to leave them labeled bora, though, until they're ready to be used by people who don't know what bora is ;-)21:22
tzzAaronL: I got somewhere with the Emacs input method, now I will see if the maemo-developers list will help.  It's frustrating that there's no simple way to say "this application should get the pop-up keyboard on focus" but I see the framework is trying to do the right thing for all GTk widgets.21:23
AaronL2tzz:  at, go to code snippets21:23
AaronL2tzz:  someone posted some snippets that you might find interesting for this21:23
AaronL2tzz:  I noticed them there last night21:24
hapi wish i could get the hand keyboard with stylet21:24
hapit's too small for me :)21:24
AaronL2Tak:  totally different question:  have you tried, with xmame, etc., having two hardware buttons pressed at the same time?21:24
Takdoesn't work (on 770)21:25
AaronL2Tak:  Detlef (my colleague) tried to get it working, but the second press doesn't get sent21:25
tzzAaron: I used those snippets already.  They are useful, but they assume a GDK window, which Emacs doesn't appear to have in a frame.21:25
TakI put in screen buttons on fceu21:25
AaronL2is it a hardware limitation/21:25
AaronL2ah, okay, wonder if the N800 has the same limitation, probably, I would guess21:25
tzzAaron: look at my patch and the e-mail to see what I've done so far.21:25
TakI would guess so too; don't know either way21:25
AaronL2tzz:  well, emacs must have some Gdkwindow21:25
inzTak, if you want to change the device state, you should take a look at the mce-dev package21:26
keesjI really love the way the maemo gui has evolved. congrats!21:26
AaronL2tzz:  I'll try to find some time tonight to look at the code21:26
tzzAaron: I asked on emacs-devel about this.  I don't think there is a GDK window.  I think they draw directly in X.  But I could be wrong :)21:26
Takinz: I will, thanks21:26
AaronL2tzz:  but, you said that you can build it with gtk support21:27
inz|tbb|, you can set the 770 to host mode, according to a post on maemo-dev, N800 hardware doesn't support it21:27
AaronL2tzz:  this must do something, right?21:27
keesjAaronL2, I an trying to the same kind of things.21:27
keesj(for sdl that is)21:27
AaronL2keesj:  multiple hardware keys at a time?21:27
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keesjno , non gtk user input ,21:27
tzzAaron: GTK is used for widgets and toolbard, but the actual text input area (which is what people want to use), is not a GDK window.  I looked for a while.21:27
|tbb|they should upgrade a device not downgrade it21:27
AaronL2|tbb|:  it required going through various hoops to begin with to use USB anyway, it wasn't for regular users21:28
tzzAaron: I'll let you and maemo-developers know when I get a reply from emacs-devel with details.21:28
AaronL2tzz:  well, okay, but if GTK is used for widgets and toolbars, that implies that there is something that the widgets and toolbars are housed in21:29
AaronL2tzz:  which is most likely some other Gtk construct21:29
keesjbut why the "real" emacs , why not vim with emacs key bindings21:29
|tbb|linux always not regular users :(21:29
tzzAaron: I couldn't figure it out myself.  I'm not good enough at X or GTK.21:30
tzzkeesj: the real Emacs can do things like run Gnus for mail21:30
tzzkeesj: multiple IMAP/Maildir/mbox/NNTP/RSS sources, for example...21:31
AaronL2tzz:  did you grep through the source for Gtk and Gdk?21:31
AaronL2that will tell you right away if any other Gtk classes are used21:31
AaronL2or Gdk classes21:31
AaronL2find -name '*' -type f | xargs grep -i gtk21:32
tzzAaron: I looked with grep and by reading.  gtkutil.c and xterm.c are the important files.  xfns.c has one line, for XPM pixbufs.21:33
keesjalong you might end up with code that will look like gtksdl21:33
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Takheh, all the C code snippets have to do with vkb21:34
AaronL2tzz:  I see GtkWindow when searching through gtkutil.c21:35
tzzAaron: btw, I run grep inside Emacs, then you can just select a match and it jumps to that line in the file.21:36
AaronL2GtkWindow *gwin = GTK_WINDOW(FRAME_GTK_OUTER_WIDGET(f));21:36
tzzAaron: GTKWindow, sure.  But I need a GDKWindow.21:36
AaronL2I might be looking at an older version of the code21:36
AaronL2You have a GDkWindow21:36
AaronL2if you have a GtkWindow21:36
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AaronL2Examine the documentation for GtkWindow21:36
AaronL2which inherits from Gtkwidget21:36
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tzzOK, I see it now.  Let me try that.21:40
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AaronL2btw, since you have a GtkWidget21:40
AaronL2you might just try adding keypress and keyrelease events to it21:40
AaronL2rather than going through the hassle of the stuff in the code snippets at garage21:41
tzzAaron: would that automagically bring up the keyboard?21:42
AaronL2no, same as with VNC viewer21:42
AaronL2you would need to handle the Enter key press21:42
AaronL2to mean that that should show the input method21:42
AaronL2and same as with xterm21:42
AaronL2both VNC viewer and xterm use similar techniques to cause the virtual keyboard to be displayed21:43
AaronL2although xterm also allows clicking on the screen21:43
tzzI was going to catch the focusin event to show the keyboard.21:43
BULLEany nx client available yet ?21:43
BULLEas vnc is a tad slow, over slower connections21:43
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tzzexcellent!  Now the keyboard is always on.  So close.21:44
tzzgtk_im_context_set_client_window(im_context, FRAME_GTK_OUTER_WIDGET(frame)->window); /* we need the frame's GDK window */21:45
tzz(the one line I changed)21:45
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AaronL2well, gtk_im_context_set_client_window() just associated the IM context with a window21:46
AaronL2it is also necessary to cause it to be displayed21:46
tzzright.  I'm following the snippets here.  The next line is hildon_gtk_im_context_show(im_context);21:46
kjetilhoinz: would it be possible if your toolbar was present alongside the thumb keyboard, too?21:46
tzzI was saying that's the one line I changed from the patch I just sent to maemo-developers.21:47
AaronL2tzz:  I don't think you need to do all the business of the special X properties and stuff though21:47
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AaronL2tzz:  from the third code snippet21:47
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AaronL2you have a pure GtkWindow, you don't need to wrap an already existing pure X application in a GtkWindow21:48
AaronL2or GdkWindow21:48
tzzwithout the X Event handling on hildon_utf input, I don't get input at all, so that's necessary.  Or do you mean another snippet?21:50
AaronL2I guess I was referring to that code, but I would think that you wouldn't need it at all21:51
AaronL2considering that you have a GtkWindow21:51
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tzzI just tried it, no input without the XEvent handler21:51
AaronL2hmm, okay21:51
inzkjetilho, not really, no21:51
Andy80fu** tom tom :P I've just discovered that Route66 continues supporting a lot of nokia phones ;) and it's very cheap :D21:52
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MacSlowwhat is the  "sapwood server"? Why does it not seem to be started by " start"?21:56
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feruloMacSlow: is a theme engine trick :)21:56
ferulocached pixmaps21:57
MacSlowhm... restarting it helped21:57
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|tbb|is there a command which reads content of a file and output me the query?21:58
kjetilhoinz: in other words it requires patching the built-in thumb keyboard code, not an app?21:58
|tbb|like type filename | grep myquery21:59
kjetilhoor reimplementing the entire thumb keyboard, I guess...21:59
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TakLOL - pkg-config --cflags --libs mce: (empty string)22:01
|tbb|i will take my question back22:01
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kjetilhoinz: how about mapping the + - buttons to something more useful?22:03
Takinz: do you know of a quick mce tutorial?22:03
kjetilho- == Shift and + == Ctrl would be sweet :)22:03
kulveTak: maybe because the /usr/include is always included?22:05
Takkulve: yeah, it just amuses me that there's a .pc file at all in that case22:05
kulveTak: if there wouldn't you would be lolling about how to include mce stuff since it doesn't include a .pc file..22:06
kulvebesides it contains e.g. versiong number..22:07
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Takyeah, there's still modversion, I guess22:07
Takit's still funny :-P22:07
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kulveyep. And maybe will some day include a lib too :)22:07
tzzAaron: thanks for all the help sir.  I hope I can solve some Perl/Java/Lisp puzzle for you someday :)22:10
bhimaHmm. The auto-save API on maemo is interesting. I think it could be extended to provide something similar to the persistence that persistent object stores have.22:12
maddler|tbb|: UPS just realized that... yes we won't deliver you shiny new N800 todau!!!22:13
AaronL2tzz:  no problem22:13
|tbb|omg they really fast at all22:13
|tbb|hmmh, if i connect to my n8 through ssh and the connection get lost after a few minutes, i cant reconnect to the device till i restart sshd on the n8, any idea why?22:15
maddler|tbb|: UPS -> U Poor Stupid22:15
maddlernot right now...22:16
maddlerI should check on my N822:16
|tbb| 1290 root       1356 S   sshd: root@pts/22:18
|tbb|this process still remains on the n8, thats why i cant reconnect till i kill this process22:19
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bhimaUPS sucks.22:21
inzTak, I guess there is none, you can try the requests with dbus-send22:22
inzTak, in the mce-dev there should be a dbus-names.h or sth like that, which defines the service, path, interface and then there's a few request methods22:22
Takyeah, I'm looking at that22:23
TakI'm also wondering what the differences are between some of the modes22:23
bhimaHow close can the camera focus on teh n800? think it can do bar codes?22:23
inzso if you do: dbus-send --system --dest=<service> --type=method_call /path/to/mce/request iface.of.mce.method_name, you should be able to find out what it does ;)22:24
inzAnd --print-reply might be useful22:24
Takdbus-send...crap, reboot :-P22:24
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bhimahey koen.22:25
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koen|gprshey bhima22:25
* koen|gprs curses ups for being too fast22:25
bhimakoen: don't worry, they'll fix that now.22:26
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maddlerdamn... switched off my laptop instead of 770!22:26
* maddler is thinkig about a text interface for 770/N822:26
maddlermumble... mumble...22:27
* bhima looks at his 770 and E70, and his desired N800, Neo1973, and iphone, and tries to figure out which projects would work best on each.22:27
maddlergotta check with dialog & similar...22:27
maddleriphone is evil!22:27
maddlerapple is evil!22:27
glassnot evil, boring22:27
maddlersomeone can find it boring... some one not... but *IT* *IS* evil!22:28
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maddlerapple is closed-everything!22:28
hapyeah, but it works22:28
bhimaApple is a corporation. They're all evil.22:28
hapthis N800 is great, but the lack of working PIM sux22:29
* Tak shrugs22:29
Takit's not meant for PIM22:29
maddlerhap: yep... but mu E61 is good enough for that... :D22:29
hapTak: well for opera only then ?22:29
AaronL2hap:  I thought that the gpe pim stuff has been ported to bora22:29
|tbb|hap also it does not cook coffee, 2 bad22:29
hapAaronL2: i tried it, honestly it sux22:29
bhimaTak: but it's a great candidate for PIM.22:29
Taksure, but it's not like nokia's releasing it as ultra-killer-pim-device22:30
suihkulokkiiPhone is shipping with LGPL browser. I'm sure they will give you the source, but you cannot modify the code and put the modified browser back on your iPhone..22:30
maddlerbhima: it only lacks some integration among components...22:30
hapand don't take it personaly, but for some specific domains, open source software sux22:30
maddlerhap: fon instance?22:30
hapwell PIM, integration between multiple softwares, etc22:31
hapwhen i see how nicely my powerbook works22:31
hapmaddler: for example, i'd like a nice iCal with webdav sync for my N800. Where is that?22:31
maddlerevolution is not good enough?!22:31
hapevolution? haha22:31
bhimahap: CalDAV on leopard...22:32
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maddlerwait... if you are talking ONLY abpout maemo environment is different from saying "open source sux"22:32
Takdates, google calendar22:32
hapbhima: can't wait for leopard.22:32
hapmaddler: no, in general some domains are very badly developed by open source softwares22:32
hapi didn't have maemo in mind22:32
maddlerok... make me an example...22:33
hapmaddler: and some other domains are _very well_ covered22:33
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bhimahap: try mozilla sunbird.22:33
maddlerI can't find a domain were I wasn't able to find a good FOSS candidate...22:33
saerdnaerdoes the gpe calender not support online calendars via http22:33
bhimahap: syncs to caldav now.22:33
hapmaddler: well see java/applet compared to flash. Who wants to make an applet theses days?22:33
hapbhima: ah, good to hear22:33
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hapmaddler: please, don't talk about SVG...22:34
maddlerjava is not exactly open source...22:34
maddlerit became open source just a few days ago man...22:34
maddleryup... but you compared two not open source softwares...22:35
hapmaddler: that's bullshit talking, it was _almost_ opensource, enough for some people to work on it22:35
hapmaddler: well, give me an opensource solution to such a domain then22:35
Takalmost opensource means nothing22:35
hapmaddler: there are not22:35
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maddlerhap... you can develo flash using open source software...22:36
bhimaPersonally, in terms of development styles, I think a good distinction to draw is between community developed and commercially planned.22:36
maddlerbhima: also...22:36
hapmaddler: please... at least you could be honest.22:36
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maddlerI am...22:36
maddlerwell... I try...22:36
hapyeah right, you're not trying enough22:36
maddlermaybe I'm wrong... but I'm honest...22:36
bhimaIf SUN controls 90% of the development team, the app is going to have different priorities than a community developed one.22:36
hapflash with opensource software, what a joke. You want to draw squares with ming?22:37
bhimaI don't think there are many free-software people doing good UIs.22:37
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hapbhima: exactly, and that's a problem.22:37
hap(one of many)22:37
MacSlowbhima, that's not precise22:37
Takimo free software people are hampered by "This should look/work like CommercialSoftwareX" whiners22:37
hapi just wonder how osX made something happening with a unix base than others still haven't reached so far.22:38
bhimaTak: I cried when I saw an update for an app, I forget which, with the comment, "Almost as good as WinCE."22:38
Takno kidding22:38
MacSlowbhima, free software "people" usually don't get well/high paid/skilled UI-designers for doing their UIs22:38
bhimaIt was said as if it were a good milestone.22:38
hapMacSlow: well, as free software developers always try to make their app looks like commercial ones, they could copy from the good ones ;)22:38
bhimaAnother issue, somewhat more in the philosophical domain, is that sometimes you need a dictator.22:39
MacSlowbhima, no doubts there22:39
hapi would agree on that too, but some free software have their owns.22:39
hapsee openbsd :)22:39
bhimaWHen everybody thinks they have a better idea, sometimes that's a problem.22:39
maddlergotta go...22:40
bhimaIf their ideas are only _slightly_ better, but _inconsistent_, that's not good.22:40
* bhima waves at maddler.22:40
bhimaOF course, commercial software can have that too.22:40
bhimaiirc, VMS commands were written by two teams, one US and one UK.22:40
hapanyway, i'm quiet surprised GPE isn't better than what I've seen.22:40
bhimaYou can tell who wrote what based on terminology.22:40
Takso half the commands are full of extraneous vowels? ;-)22:40
MacSlowbhima, the problem is... many people suddenly think they are 'experts in the field of UI-design'... just because they once saw something 'nice'.22:41
bhimatak: worse, far worse.22:41
bhimatak: I forget the precise example, but for command line arguments, they used different synonyms.22:41
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sbaturziobefore I test it: Laika, the Eclipse plugin for Maemo, works with Maemo 3?22:53
sbaturzioargh...grammar....Works Laika with Maemo 3 ? ;-)22:54
Takimo the first one was better :-P22:54
sbaturzioTak: and now you put a big doubt on me too ;-)22:54
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|tbb|is it possible to launch the pictureviewer or build in mediaplayer from bash?23:02
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Lh3hi to all23:04
Lh3ciao a tutti qualche italiano?23:05
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sbaturzioLh3: me!23:09
sbaturzioLh3: and there are some other around ;-)23:09
Lh3sba are you italian?23:10
tigert|tbb|: yes23:12
tigert|tbb|: /path/to/usr/bin/whatever23:12
tigertrun-standalone does the stuff maemo-launcher does from menus23:12
|tbb|ah k23:12
tigertie, sets up the theme and other needed environment variables23:12
tigertrunning the binary directly gives you the default gtk theme23:13
Lh3allora senti23:13
Lh3avrei da dirti alcune cose23:13
tigertwhich is not very useful in the device :)23:13
Lh3sul nokia...23:13
sbaturzioLh3: in query?23:13
Lh3meglio in query secondo te?23:13
tigertno tutti italiano #maemo hablas njet23:13
Lh3:) mamma mia..23:14
Lh3sono un po emozionato23:14
Lh3e il fatto che avevo un progettino per il mio sito23:14
Lh3di avere i nokia a 99 euro per fondare un ritrovo italiano23:14
tigertahem, please. nobody but sbaturzio will understand23:14
Lh3potreste darmi qualceh indicazione?23:14
tigertuse english if you can23:14
sbaturzioLh3: in query, please!23:14
Lh3ok ok...23:15
|tbb|why the n7/8 wont do a complete reboot when its plugged into ac, for what is it good for23:15
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Lh3sbaturzio query23:17
sbaturzioLh3: did you see my query window?23:17
Lh3yes is see..i see...23:17
tigert|tbb|: charging23:17
Lh3sbaturzio i see you...query23:18
Lh3can you learn me?23:18
bhimatbb: I don't think it does a reboot, it does a _boot_.23:18
sbaturzioLh3: I've made a query request, your IRC client should alert you about that. Did you see t?23:19
bhimatbb: Presumably, because the battery charging controller is part of the kernel...23:19
tigertLh3: write in the query window23:19
c0ffeeit just boots into runlevel 5 if the bootreason is ac adapter23:19
tigertLh3: that goes only to lh323:19
tigertto sbaturzio I mean23:19
c0ffeeand it is, as the linuxrc calls it: "act dead"23:19
tigertI think the charging requires some process running23:20
Lh3i see query bat  dont learn me?23:20
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tigertand thus it boots to "charging" mode23:20
c0ffeeand it's a bug since it2005 :(23:20
sbaturzioLh3: which IRC client you have?23:20
sbaturzioLh3: like me,  so you must have a new window with my nickname above, did you see it?23:21
waitestill no reports of US dscount codes? I would have thought by now.23:21
Lh3yes i see bat you dont' read me?23:21
sbaturzioLh3: no23:21
Lh3have msn?23:22
sbaturzioLh3: jabber?23:22
sbaturzioLh3: skpe?23:22
Lh3i installa skype moment onlny ok?23:22
Lh3waith me23:22
sbaturzioLh3: ok23:22
kjetilhosbaturzio: perhaps you don't accept PRIVMSG from unidentified users23:22
sbaturziokjetilho: uhm....How can I check this?23:23
kjetilhodon't know, I haven't studied the freenode features23:23
Takfreenode blocks privmsg from unidentified users by default23:24
sbaturziokjetilho: I think is a server/channel options, not an xchat option23:24
Lh3a client jabber? gtalk have been?23:24
tzzskype for N800 is not out yet, right?23:24
Tak /msg nickserv help set unfiltered23:24
|tbb|ehm, if i say shutdown -r now from xterm it will make a complete boot23:24
|tbb|is that bad?23:24
Lh3now i are a pc23:24
Lh3:\ im in my pc23:25
sbaturzioLh3: msn? which account you have?23:25
Lh3can i write my account here?23:26
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sbaturzioLh3: ok, let's registeer your account on freenode server so we can talk here, ok?23:26
Lh3where i register?23:27
sbaturzioLh3: type "/ns register <password>"  choosing a  password as you want23:27
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Lh3i write here?23:27
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Lh3im registetred23:28
sbaturziook, thank you everyone for your patience, we have done and now we are chatting in query. ;-)23:29
suihkulokkisbaturzio: =) just don't teach him howto use colors on irc ;)23:30
* inz <3 mod_rewrite23:30
|tbb|c0ffee, tigert , will it hurt the device if i reboot it with the shutdown command while its plugged?23:30
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* gpd recompiles scummvm for N800, installs with beneath a steel sky23:32
gpdseems to be playable -- but no fullscreen23:32
Takwow, really?23:32
gpdTak: why the surprise?23:33
Taksurprised that there's no fs23:33
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gpdi seem to get no fullscreen with all mistral apps i recompile23:34
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Takwow, that's...odd23:34
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Takyou got fullscreen with xmame, right?23:34
gpdhmm... just run out of batteries :(23:34
gpdyes -- fullscreen with xmame -23:34
gpdjust not worked out the buttons!23:34
gpdare those large A and B supposed to be touch buttons?23:35
gpddidn't seem to work on the games i tried :(23:35
Takok, I'll look into it more23:35
gpdi found 'fullscreen' was start, d-pad worked -- but no button to 'fire' or equivalent23:35
Takyeah, that's what A and B are23:35
gpdi presume you don't have an N800 to test?23:36
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gpdok - well let me know if you need help - although my batteries are dead for the next 6 hours23:36
Takwill do23:37
TakI'm hoping to receive a code when they get the US issues sorted out23:37
gpdAre you involved with the scummvm too? (sorry for ignorance)23:37
Takno, I'm not23:37
gpdwell i have somewhat working debs for that now.  The main thing that keeps coming up is the Depends: maemo23:38
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gpdwhich you just have to remove for OS2007.23:38
bstockso with xmame on the 770, is there a way to get nes roms to play without being choppy?23:39
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bstockit's always choppy for me, especially with sound enabled23:40
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Takbstock: you have 0.98.12-6 ?23:44
Takand are you using the xmaeme launcher?23:45
lucaspirollaDoes anyone know any document with hardware specfications for the n-gage or where i can get them?23:48
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lucaspirollaanybody in this room is readin?23:55
lardmanyep, just started23:55
lardmanbut I don't think this is the channel to ask about n-gages23:56
Taklucaspirolla: sorry, don't know23:56
gpdlucaspirolla: google has info on ngage specifications by the look of it23:56

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