IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2007-01-23

keesjzuh, I don't get it ;(00:00
keesjis it an invisible applet?00:00
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guerbyhey I got a discount code and I already bought a N800 :)00:01
disqwonder if i can exchange it with a US code00:01
disqfriend's in the us coming back this weekend00:02
AaronL2anyone in the US receive a developer code yet?  My colleague that also works on the VNC viewer project received it, but he is in Germany.00:02
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JussiPWhy oh why do Nokia's web page designer have a fetish for useless use of Flash and opening zillions of new windows?00:03
glassbeats me00:03 side is sane mostly though00:03
Takmarketing pages are usually dictated by marketing people00:04
Takand marketing people like flash and popups00:04
tigertwhy do people buy chart music and watch bold & beautiful?00:04
tigertwhy is there hunger?00:04
tigertwhy is the sky blue?00:04
tigertdo we need to know? :)00:04
vidarwhy, because of marketing people, of course!00:04
Taktigert: marketing people like blue00:05
tigertblue is good though, they have taste00:05
tigertin that thing00:05
Taksure, just not in online technologies00:05
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nelsonTak: too bad marketing people don't know that customers hate useless flash and new windows.00:06
maddlerguerby: hehehe...00:06
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nelsonI guess everybody thinks that everybody else likes what they want.00:07
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nelsonThat's why Christmas is such a hell.00:07
guerbymaddler, I'm trying to contact developpers for software I use to see if they all have one00:07
Takmost marketing people don't understand that what flies with a tv commercial or a brochure won't necessarily transition to a browser00:07
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maddlerguerby: good...00:09
maddlerI was lucky enough to not order mine this afternoon... :D00:09
guerbyAaronL2, you have my proposal in your mailbox just in case :)00:09
keesjwhat kind of hours do those marketing people make?00:09
guerbymaddler, I'm fine with giving money to Nokia on this project (and I didn't code anything...)00:10
maddlerguerby: yup... have to agree...00:12
AaronL2guerby:  thanks, I just noticed, I haven't received a code yet :-(00:12
maddlergiving me that code... nokia is now compeling me to release new releases for 770 an N800! :D00:13
TakAaronL2: me too00:13
disqtigert: do you know if it's possible to exchange the code for a us-shop enabled one? sent a mail to qil but just asking00:13
VeggenNeither did I, but I must say I haven't done anything at all for the N770. Started experimenting, yet, but not contributed a thing at all.00:14
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guerbyAaronL, mine is marked valid for USA and most of Europe00:14
tigertdisq: I wouldnt know, sorry00:14
disqmkay :)00:14
tigertdisq: but I guess if they got it wrong, just mail and ask00:14
tigertdisq: maybe someone put your place of residence wrong00:14
guerbyMon, 22 Jan 2007 23:35:15 +0200 (EET)  (22:35 CET)00:15
AaronL2well, I'm going to get some lunch:  maybe the code will be waiting in my inbox when I return :-)00:15
guerbywell they did make it :)00:15
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guerbyAaronL, I'm going to bed, let me know if you don't receive anything00:15
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tigertalso folks, if you feel you are being left out, _mail quim or carlos_, its hard to remember everyone possible00:15
AaronL2guerby:  ok, I will, thanks so much00:15
c0ffeeNO NO NO00:15
disqtigert: nope it's correct, i just don't have a due return friend in europe. my friend in the us is coming back this weekend, he was going to get me the n800 anyways00:15
tigertdisq: ah00:16
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c0ffeeJan 22 23:04:56 nyx sm-mta[8418]: l0MM4Aub008418: Milter: to=<>, reject=451 4.7.1 Greylisting in action, please come back in 00:00:0500:16
c0ffeeJan 22 23:04:56 nyx sm-mta[8418]: l0MM4Aub008418: from=<>, size=2097, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, []00:16
c0ffeei hereby declare that i hate anti spam stuff00:16
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Veggenc0ffee: can't live without it either, I'm afraid.00:16
c0ffeethat's not fair00:16
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svuI wonder - where can I purchase N800 is does not sell anything online - and delivers within UK only?00:17
Veggenc0ffee: I run my mail on a poor PII 233 w/196 MB memory. It works, but without greylisting? no chance :)00:17
guerbysvu, site is "Europe"00:17
feruloclick on .ie00:17
svuferulo, thanks00:17
c0ffeemine is a nsc geode 233mhz with 128mb00:17
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keesjand I have a cluster of so many machine , you just would not believe it00:18
|tbb|any navicore user here?00:19
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tigert|tbb|: what about it?00:20
tigertI used the internal betas somewhat00:20
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disqi'll get my friend in the us to try the code, the mail says its usable in eu and us. but wiki entry states otherwise00:21
|tbb|i have written a script which parses kismet log files  and write open closed work files out which u could later import to navicore, r u interrest00:22
tigert|tbb|: btw, maemo-mapper has also a point-of-interest database with sqlite00:23
tigertmight wrok nicely for that00:23
tigertnavicore is not something most people will have00:23
hap - nice review over there00:23
disqi'm wondering why they didn't release a software download only version of navicore yet00:23
|tbb|it might be easy to rewrite it, but if u got a navicore u might be happy with it00:24
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tigertok. sleep time!00:24
c0ffeelater tigert00:24
hapbtw, does maemo offers a syncing way with osX ?00:24
hapfor contacts, etc00:24
tigertcontacts sync with gmail :)00:24
|tbb|i havent understand how to create the poi db on maemo-mapper00:24
disqnight tigert :)00:25
c0ffeeif you install the gpe pim stuff you should be able to use syncml00:26
disqthere's an "empty db" download there somewhere you can use that00:26
tigertyea or just create one with those instructions00:27
tigertwe should start a community db00:27
|tbb|ah k00:27
maddlerbye tigert00:27
tigertthe most nasty way would just to add sqlite commands to a wiki page00:27
tigertbye :))00:27
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disqin fact we need a networked db but it needs to be kinda moderated and all00:27
disqmaybe more on that when i get my n800 :P00:28
|tbb|but anyway if someone is interest, look at here and let me know if it works for u00:28
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c0ffee :)00:29
* c0ffee whistles00:29
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hap|tbb|: why do you need kismet, the N800 doesn't list availables wifi networks ?00:31
wumpusyou can use kismet as a sniffer too00:32
hapah yeah ok, sorry00:32
konfoo-kismet has uses, many00:32
hapcan you crack networks with the N800, how long would it take, days ? :)00:33
wumpusyou can hap00:33
|tbb|you should not00:33
wumpusit's just that packet injection in monitor mode doesn't work with the current driver00:33
c0ffeeyou can at least gather data00:33
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wumpusso you'll have some trouble gathering enough packets00:34
hapwumpus: ok00:34
hap|tbb|: i was talking about my own network, to check for security00:34
wumpusapart from that it's not too heavy to crack wep00:34
hapc0ffee: true00:34
wumpuswpa(2) is a whole other story00:34
keesjam aware that the third generation device is already under development.00:34
keesjI am ..00:34
wumpusyou mean like a N800 version 2, or a whole other new device?00:36
hapkeesj: we are reading the same page ? :)00:36
wumpusthat's good to now but my N800 just arrived a few days ago I'll have a lot of fun with that00:36
disqoff topic -- what would you recommend as a gps chipset? sirfstar3? mtk?00:38
c0ffeethis discount code is for you :)00:38
* c0ffee hugs finland00:38
disqc0ffee: yeah i also did that :)00:39
Takmeh, has anybody in US gotten one yet?00:39
jpetersen_@maemo team: thanks for the discount code :)00:39
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keesjand now they know where I live and I have to play nice00:40
imrahilwho help mi with scratchbox on Ubuntu and internet connection?00:41
c0ffeewhat's the problem imrahil00:42
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imrahilc0ffee: i don't have internet connection in ARMEL rootstrap...00:44
c0ffeeand with sdk_pc it works?00:44
keesjwhat is the error message?00:44
imrahilhmm... I got it all mixed up...00:46
imrahilapt-get works...00:46
imrahilbut applications doesn't have connection...00:46
imrahilmaemo-mapper, minimo, etc00:47
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dwdimrahil: Oh... I've seen this one too, on my laptop but not on my desktop.00:47
c0ffeecan you strace the applications?00:48
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Jaffac0ffee: yay!00:49
imrahilstrace? i don't know this app.. i'm newbie :)00:50
Takit's the code equivalent of holding your brightly burnished vambrace in front of someone's lips00:50
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* [mbm] likes strace and ltrace00:54
pahartikimrahil: "strace" on Linux is similar to "truss" on Solaris - "trace system calls and signals"00:54
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[mbm]strace is for syscalls, ltrace traces shared symbols (library calls)00:55
c0ffeewell, without knowing strace the output might be pretty pointless :/00:55
c0ffeeimrahil, you'd put strace -f -F before the actual command you want to execute00:55
dwdc0ffee: Well, for a reasonably experienced programmer it's pretty obvious.00:55
[mbm]just don't be one of those people that reports every strace error; certain syscalls are expected to fail00:56
c0ffeewho doesn't know strace? :) isn't that mutual exclusive?00:56
c0ffeei once reported a bug in strace00:57
dwdc0ffee: Well, it's a tool that an experienced programmer not doing much Linux programming might not have come across.00:57
c0ffeethe maintainer answered "i don't understand the code, so i will only commit parts of it"00:57
c0ffeewhich broke everything00:57
c0ffeethen he just removed it00:57
dwdc0ffee: Oh, nice.00:57
c0ffeeand stopped responding to mail00:57
Jaffakeesj: you're awfully prolific with mud packages this evening :-)00:58
Veggenwell, for non-open-source software, *especially* badly documented enterprise class code, strace and friends is a bare necessity :)00:58
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* Jaffa beds01:02
AaronL2Jaffa beds whom? :-)01:03
c0ffeegood plan01:03
JaffaAaronL2: Mrs Jaffa - though for sleeping purposes only.01:03
* Jaffa doesn't have to hack so late tonight on maemo stuff, I've got my code now...01:04
jpetersen_ah just fixed my scratchbox hostname resolving error with strace01:04
c0ffeea student insisted to meet me tommorow at 9am01:05
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c0ffeemeans i have to turn up at the university nearly two hours earlier than normal :/01:05
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lardmanc0ffee: What do you do? Job-wise01:06
AaronL2has anyone found out if US developers have received discount codes yet?01:07
c0ffeeresearch assistant01:07
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lardmanAh, I'm similar, research officer is my title I think01:07
* lardman also needs to get to uni early to write some VB code to grab IR camera images before 10am - yuk!01:08
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BULLEc0ffee: jikes, way more people here then i expected01:09
c0ffeethe first groupies arriving01:10
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BULLEhaha =)01:10
c0ffeeso, off to bed &01:10
lardmanbackground task?01:11
TakAaronL2: it seems to be just you and I in the US...01:11
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AaronL2at least on IRC01:15
Takwell, yes01:17
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lardmannight all01:38
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maihemmy n800 keeps rebooting as well as having to keep buffering audio streams. Is anybody else seeing that?02:37
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maihemThanks [mbm], I'll get as much of that data next time it happens. Unfortunately, this time the device didn't manage to start up, so I had to take the battery out and start again, which would wipe out /proc/bootreason, I suppose.02:44
[mbm]right, but you'd still have /var/lib/dsme/stats sowing increasing counters02:48
[mbm]probably a 32wd reset caused by heavy load02:49
maihemokay, I'm installing xterm now02:50
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maihemcat lifeguard_resets gives "/usr/sbin/dsp_dld -p --disable-restart -c /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf :  *"02:54
maihemdevice was idle from my perspective, but backlight had spontaeneously lit up, I had been using the audio player applet02:55
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maihemlifeguard_restarts is interesting: "/usr/bin/esd :  13, /usr/bin/osso_hss  :  13, /usr/bin/ias :  13, /usr/sbin/dsp_dld -p --disable-restart -c /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf :  19 *, /usr/bin/osso-media-server  :  12"02:58
[mbm]wait for the device to crash again and then look to see what numbers changed03:00
maihemokay, I've saved the dsme stats files to my sd card and will keep my eye on it. Should I expect any to change when a reboot doesn't occur?03:02
[mbm]*shrug* there will probably be some minor changes03:03
[mbm]there are services which will be restarted if they die but won't cause the system to reboot03:03
maihemOkay, I'll watch for a correlation03:03
maihemthanks [mbm]03:04
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shaprHey, my sister is thinking of buying an N800, but she wants to know if you can send SMS messages via bluetooth or something. Does anyone know?03:06
[mbm]hmm there's support for jabber/goggle talk .. can't rememeber any sms03:07
lasalano sms won't work on the N80003:07
* maihem waves03:07
shaprhiya maihem!03:07
maihemhowdy shapr03:07
shaprhow's code?03:07
maihemnot doing much outside work, thinking of trying compiling some haskell to armel :)03:08
maihemhows the unicycling03:08
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shaprJust got back from a circuit around the golf course.03:09
shaprHaven't gotten the brakes put on yet.03:10
maihemWell too late to chat now, have to go and wait for my n800 to crash me gently to sleep ;) see ya03:10
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Takno discount code, and a car wreck on the way home03:25
Takif there is a god, she hates me03:25
konfoo-not involved i hope03:25
Takyeah, got sideswiped03:28
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konfoo-ouch... you ok i hope03:32
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AaronL2Tak:  no code for me as well03:35
AaronL2maybe US codes will be sent out tonight, but who knows03:35
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TakAaronL2: semi-comforting, I guess04:05
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lexiyntaxI'm looking for a password manager (to replace ZSafe, which I use with my Zaurus currently) for my Nokia N800.05:32
soleblazelexiyntax: when you find one, let me know05:33
soleblazeI haven't seen any password managers05:33
lexiyntaxI'll probably write one if none exist or are in development.05:34
soleblazeyeah, it seems odd that there wouldn't have been one on the 77005:35
lexiyntaxIt may take a while though, my main languages are Perl and Java, neither of which seems to have Hildon bindings yet.  How's the Python support?05:35
Zer0HiTi thought i heard someone talking about one on here a couple days ago.05:35
soleblazeI have a 5mb python dev thing in my application list05:36
soleblazedunno how good the gui is05:36
Milhousethere are two password related apps on garage - not sure if they work on the n800 though05:38
soleblazeyeah, only one has files. the password safe05:39
lexiyntaxUrb, looks pretty, bad, and abandoned.05:40
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klaatuI just got off my first n800 video call, that's pretty cool...06:03
soleblazehow was teh quality?06:04
klaatuesp. when people walk around (but they need to devote some more cycles to the compression, it really looked like ass)06:04
soleblazehaha yeah..I think it's a pretty crappy webcam to begin with..really noisy picture06:04
klaatubut I have a bit torrent client running with no QOS06:04
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klaatunot being able to point the camera 'in' means that unless you have to hold the n800 strangely to be centered in the view06:06
soleblazewonder when you'll be able to use it with someone on a computer06:07
konfoo-klaatu i noticed that as well06:07
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klaatubut it was still pretty cool...06:08
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AaronL3any US developers receive coupon?06:09
minrai <3 somafm.   greatest djs ever06:10
minrathey've got lounge/exotica, great IDM, non-boring chillout...06:10
konfoo-minra: somafm = good stuff06:14
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minrai think i have to donate06:17
minrawould be nice if they did 128kb/s ogg though - sounds better06:18
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tsooanyone can tell me if the n800 is grainy like the 770 is?07:27
tsoobecause of the layer under the touchscren?07:27
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[mbm]screen looks good to me07:32
minrai know what you mean tsoo07:33
minrai think all touchscreens have that, just with the 770 you notice it more because of the very high dot-pitch (resolution) of the screen07:33
SyntaxNinjadoes anyone know if there's a recipie/todo out there for converting from palm calendar to gpe?07:36
disq[mbm]: hey :) so, openwrt on the n800 i suppose? :P07:38
[mbm]*evil grin*07:39
disqit's said that n800's screen is better in terms of softness (erm, hardness) but didn't see one in RL yet07:39
[mbm]I have an 800 infront of me, I just don't have a 770 for comparison07:40
disqthe opposite situation here07:40
[mbm]and I think I'll take their word for the screen hardness and not intentionally scratch it just to check07:41
disq770's screen is almost juicy07:41
disqit moves up and down as you press07:41
myren_holy fucnuts07:41
myren_welcome to #maemo [mbm]07:42
disqthe protective layer on the digitizer (i'm guessing) is much too soft and there's too much room for it to go "in"07:42
[mbm]disq: ah, not so on the 800; feels almost like solid plastic07:42
jacquestho N800 does have a bit of the "water effect" if you press hard07:42
disqgreat news then :)07:42
myren_glad to see you have a little bit more responsive toy for once [mbm]07:43
[mbm]you seem shocked to see me here07:43
myren_i'm a little suprised.07:44
myren_just modestly so07:44
tsoonot so much water effect07:44
tsoojust "dimness", I guess is what i'm concerned with07:44
tsooapparent grainyness of the screen07:44
tsooseparate from pressing activity07:44
myren_have you broken open the sdk yet?07:44
tsoothere a chance you could take some high-res photos of your n800?07:45
disq[mbm]: well, seeing another experienced developer around is good news for the community. that's all :)07:45
[mbm]hmm, suppose I could snap a picture07:45
tsooactually, hold that thought07:46
[mbm]tsoo: anything particular?07:46
* tsoo browses flickr pics07:46
tsooI don't want to replace my 770 if the screen isn't better substantially07:46
tsoobecause that's my main complaint with the 77007:46
tsoowell, that and no google earth, but that isn't fixed on the 800 either, shamefully07:46
[mbm]well, doubt there will ever be a google earth since I'm guessing 3d performance is pretty pathetic07:47
tsoolike if you look at this and then this the difference is slightly apparent07:47
tsoobut not very apparent07:47
myren_[mbm]: never say never07:47
disqmaybe one day we'll actually get dynamic POI's on the mmapper from a shared database, as well as google earth's database07:48
myren_tsoo: the screen is brighter and more vibrant, but the cushy watery screen has its own niche following07:48
tsoobrighter is probably the key factor I guess07:48
[mbm]the yuv trick that mplayer uses on the 770 doesn't work on the 80007:49
Takbrighter?  damn, I could signal airplanes with the 77007:49
tsoohow's performance, and have the bluetooth keyboard issues been fixed?  I haven't been keeping up withit07:49
jacquesOMAP 2420 has a 3d accelerator but it's not used :-(07:49
tsootak, you don't live in san diego, do ya?07:49
Takare you making me an offer?07:49
* [mbm] really wishes mplayer performed better07:49
tsoono, knew a friend with same name in san diego07:49
myren_omap2420... proto-proto onboard opengl acceleration07:49
tsoojust wondering if you were him07:50
[mbm]also waiting for usb host drivers for the 80007:50
myren_[mbm]: mplayer is all software datapath, no?07:50
jacquesalso, I bet the VFP hardware is currently unused07:50
myren_jacques: what omap is in hte n800?07:50
jacquestho I haven't verified that07:51
myren_i doubt it has vfp07:51
jacquesmyren_, 242007:51
[mbm]myren_: audio is an mpeg passthrough, and on the 770 it avoids the yuv->rgb by just feeding yuv data to the screen directly07:51
jacquesmyren_, /proc/cpuinfo claims it does07:51
jacquestwo models of ARM1136 core - one with VFP and one without07:51
jacques(ARM1136 is the ARM core in the 2420)07:52
[mbm]vfp? didn't think there was any floating point07:52
jacquesthe TI site doesn't say which exact core is in the OMAP 2420, but /proc/cpuinfo claims vfp whereas the one on N770 does not07:53
myren_this omap2420 diagram indicates an onboard dsp.  i had assumed some kind of external dsp solution.07:53
myren_did the n770 have an external dsp chip?07:53
jacquesdefine external07:53
myren_seperate package07:53
tsoobut the bluetooth kb issue is worked out?07:53
jacquesit's external to the ARM core but in the same physical package07:53
jacqueslet me try to find the block diagram on the TI site07:54
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myren_onboard graphics accelerator ddzam07:55
jacques"The OMAP2420 includes an integrated ARM1136 processor (330 MHz), a TI TMS320C55x™DSP (220 MHz), 2D/3D graphics accelerator, imaging and video accelerator, high-performance system interconnects and industry-standard peripherals."07:56
myren_i cant even fathom what omap3 is going to be like07:56
jacques"Dedicated 2D/3D graphics accelerator at 2 million polygons per second"07:56
myren_the 3430 is based of cortex a8, wasnt that a really low end low power arm?07:57
jacquesI'm not familiar with that07:57
myren_theres a faint possibility omap3 might have actual opengl acceleration07:58
jacquessilly TI site never actually says if the ARM core is the F model (includes VFP)07:58
myren_v. an assortment of accelerated functions for omap2.  there's probably like a rasterizer or something and thats it.07:58
jacquesso all I'm going on is the /proc/cpuinfo07:59
jacquesassuming it is, I wonder if there are any plans to transition to a hard-float toolchain08:00
myren_[mbm] whats needed to take advantage of DMA engines?08:00
myren_whoops didnt mean to msg that, sorry08:00
jacquesit wouldn't be compatible with the N770 so that might be a concern08:00
* [mbm] doesn't know much about the hardware - yet08:01
jacquesbut for certain libraries it would be a big win08:01
myren_yeah good luck finding docs for anything ti related08:01
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* dottedmag looks at openmoko.08:01
jacquesmyren_, they come right out and say "unless you are a major OEM making tens of thousands of units, don't even ask"08:02
myren_dottedmag: they retracted multitouch08:02
myren_jacques: yeah, very first page.08:02
jacques"Availability Disclaimer08:02
jacquesThis product is intended for high-volume wireless OEMs and ODMs and is not available through distributors. If your company meets this description, please contact your TI sales office."08:02
[mbm]jacques: broadcom does the same thing even if you're a large oem08:02
dottedmagmyren_: yes, I know. Don't know whether multitouch is useful.08:02
jacques[mbm], yeah broadcom is on my bad list08:03
dottedmag[mbm]: ugh. broadcomm. I still have an wifi card which does not work in my laptop.08:03
konfoo-haha i have friends at broadcom.. their qc sucks08:04
dottedmagkonfoo-: are they afraid to show specs?08:04
* [mbm] still has a laptop that for now is stuck with a broadcom chip because nobody is marketing an atheros pci express08:04
konfoo-part time college kids for minimum wage = quality product08:04
dottedmagkonfoo-: broadcomm, I meant08:04
konfoo-dottedmag: sure they will show you specs, under nda and if you have the business to justify their attention08:05
[mbm]forgot what they called the form factor that replaced minipci - 'express minicard'?08:05
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[mbm]expresscard tends to refer to the packaged version08:06
[mbm]not the bare board08:06
tsoomyren_: you have a bt keyboard for your n800 or no?08:06
konfoo-the 'consumer' version08:06
myren_tsoo: i dont have my n800 yet.  no keyboard either.08:06
* [mbm] wishes local stores would actually sell the minipci and minicard wifi cards .. usually have to rip open the pci adapter to get one08:07
konfoo-i get mine off ebay08:08
konfoo-or via work :)08:08
[mbm]I have a small surplus of minipci cards thanks to some router hacking08:08
dottedmag[mbm]: well, I've got one, but had to search all the computer stores in the city.08:08
[mbm]was all set to replace the wifi, popped open the laptop; doh! express08:09
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[mbm]express card slot on the side, minicard internal, sata drives .. nothing legacy about the laptop08:10
[mbm]which means it's a bitch to buy parts for08:10
[mbm]I can't even use one of my old cardbus cards08:10
[mbm]the other 'wonderful' news is that most of the wifi stuff in the express form factor is the pre/draft/alpha/unstable 802.11n crap that nobody has drivers for08:12
Takhooray bleeding edge!08:12
[mbm]yep, hoping it won't be obsoleted before parts become available for it08:13
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tigertwhoa. -17C08:52
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zuhNice and nippy, gotta love the winter when it finally comes08:57
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zuhIf anyone tries to complain about cold to me, I'll whack him :)08:58
desrtit's so freakin' cold here08:59
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[mbm]shit man, I'm freezing here09:01
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[mbm]must be about 10C outside09:02
minrahmm Tak  around?09:04
minralooking at gp2x specs... 200mips arm9 core... and another arm for gfx acceleration... they claim to have snes9x working on it09:04
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minraoh heh, nm i see complaints about slowness and sound problems09:06
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Takhey minra09:12
TakI'm not too optimistic about snes9x running at full speed on 77009:13
Takhowever, I could see it running acceptably with some frame skipping, although the audio will probably have the same problems as fceu's09:13
Takat least good enough for strategy and rpgs09:14
minrayeah maybe the 80009:15
minrasnes rpgs are my fav anyway09:15
c0ffee2nd wave of discount codes will come today (for US ppl)09:15
minrai'm still all giddy over the ports you've done09:16
minrai wonder how well gcc optimizes for arm... it has an unusual design09:17
minrathe conditional execution, lack of microcode09:17
Takc0ffee: yeah, I saw that09:17
Takminra: ditto09:17
Takdesrt: I have yet to find a linux snes emu that does mario kart decently on a pc...09:18
c0ffeei got my old gamebody out last weekend09:18
Takerr, ditto @ snes rpgs being my favorite09:18
desrtTak; real trouble on the 770, then09:18
c0ffeetook me a few hours to master super mario land again09:18
minra"Zsnes supports Super Nintendo features which are very hard to emulate (and which were unavailable just a while ago), like DSP1 emulation (Mario Kart),"09:19
TakI was thinking a gameboy shell would be a great 800 case09:19
Takminra: yeah, they lie09:19
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klaatucrap, I think I justed screwed up my new 4G SD card (and I don't have a reader to fix it)09:32
klaatuIt seemed to work, so like an idiot I decided to reformat it using the n80009:32
klaatunow it is 2G and when I copy a file to it, the n800 things it is corrupted. Joy!09:32
sxpertuh ho !09:34
klaatuI need to get xterm installed and try and manually partition it...09:36
sxpertklaatu, solution 2, go outside and fetch a reader ;D09:37
|tbb|n800 a sdcard downgrader09:37
klaatuit shows up with the right size over usb...09:38
klaatuah, FAT1609:39
klaatudoes the n800 have ext3 support?09:39
jacquesyes, the modules are in /mnt/initfs/...09:40
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jacquesI guess it depends on how you define "support" - you will have to tweak it09:41
jacquesit doesn't load those modules automatically by default09:41
klaatu(opps, wrong shell)09:42
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Andy80I've read about a Skype porting for N800: - are there any plans for N770 too?09:56
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tigertask skype?10:11
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sxpertskype is evil10:12
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spaetzskype is the devil :-).10:16
spaetzit just happens to work nicely :-)10:17
sxpertfor some very specific values of work10:17
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tigertwell, if it didnt work, thhere wouldnt be millions of users10:22
Andy80but... I've seen another thing... Gizmo has release 2.0 version only for N800 and not N770.... it seems that 770 is no more supported by 3rd parties :(10:25
Whizthat's so stupid :/ N770 is still a good product and it is really annoying that everyone is going to forget it immediately after launch of n800 :/10:26
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leleafaik, Gizmo 2.0 works on the 77010:27
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|tbb|Whiz, the good point is that the developer will get a sponsored device so if they port something thy will problaby do it for both devices10:38
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JaffaMorning, all10:38
Whiz|tbb|, yep10:43
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spaetzsomebody from the maemo team here?10:50
spaetzI got the discount code for an N800! Thnaks guys, that is very friendly of you.10:50
spaetzHowever it does not work, I tried the ebshop and also the phone sales lady got the same error message10:51
X-Fade"This Nokia N800 discount code is for you" :)10:51
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X-FadeJoy, I got it too ;)10:51
spaetzYay, now I would just like it to work :-)10:51
* mgedmin groans10:52
suihkulokkispaetz: "ebshop" ?10:52
mgedmin"Are the codes attached to shops? Yes, there are codes for the European shop and codes for the US shop." --
spaetz s/ebshop/webshop/ :-)10:52
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sxpert-worknice article on the n800 in a computer professionnals magazine here.10:53
mgedminalthough the email doesn't mention that10:53
sxpert-workthey say it beats MS's offering hands down, being 1/4th of the price with 3 times the features :D10:53
tigertspaetz, mail carlos and quim10:53
mgedmin"This discount code can only be used to purchase one Nokia N800,10:53
mgedminthrough the online store in the countries where the Nokia N800 is sold. Currently these countries include: ..., United States"10:53
tigertor devel list10:53
spaetzmgedmin: my email mentions that it can be used in European webshops only10:53
mgedminspaetz: what's the exact phrase?10:54
spaetztigert, thanks, I will do that.10:54
spaetzThis discount code can only be used to purchase one Nokia N800,10:54
spaetzthrough the online store in the countries where the Nokia N800 is sold.10:54
spaetzCurrently these countries include: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland,10:54
spaetzFrance, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden,10:54
spaetzSwitzerland, United Kingdom and the United States.10:54
spaetzsorry for paste flooding!!!10:54
mgedminspaetz: "the United States" is not a European country :)10:55
mgedminmy coworker is going there this Friday10:55
spaetzmgedmin, ahh thanks for reminding me :-)10:55
X-FadeJust ordered mine, worked perfectly..10:58
X-FadeThe only thing that looks unprofessional is  They could at least have put a default page there ;)10:59
X-Fade"untitled page" :)10:59
Andy80lele: where can I find Gizmo 2.0 for 770?11:00
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* mgedmin mutters "when in doubt, ask" and sends an email11:11
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Whizjust download the n800 version and install it :)11:11
WhizI just tried it and it worked just ok :)11:11
spaetzWhiz really? Cool11:11
spaetzAny changes which are noticable?11:12
WhizI just tried to add another sip-account to it and make & receive calls and they worked11:12
Whiz..the main change is that you can add others than gizmo accounts to it11:12
spaetzNow, that it really cool. The 770 Gizmo could not use different SIP accounts, if I remember correctly11:13
spaetzI was looking for a nice SIP clientt, but haven't found a good one yet11:13
Whizthen this is the one :)11:13
* mgedmin cannot find on the nokiausa website11:16
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AD-N770good morning11:25
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keesjif nokia needs my help they can call me!11:29
Andy80Whiz: ok, I try now :)11:31
minra<ach> I write Java VMs, now shipping in 50m + devices worldwide :) mobile phones, mainly11:35
JaffaHmm, anyone know if the Garage -commits list can actually be configured to receive commit messages?11:35
KermitTheFraggerminra:  having a java vm on the n800 would be cool... hint hint ;-)11:37
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X-FadeJaffa: I see my commits on a -commit list at garage. I haven't setup the project though, I think Ferenc did that..11:39
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* tigert is more interested in .net in the device11:39
tigertmono should be good for network-aware apps11:40
JaffaX-Fade: aha, found a plugin which was switched off.11:40
X-FadeJaffa: Make sure you subscribe your email to that list too :)11:40
minraKermitTheFragger, well i'm trying to convince him to buy a 77011:40
minraor 80011:40
X-FadeJaffa: Otherwise the commit message will be kept for moderation.11:41
minrabut it's a commercial product..  who here would buy a java vm for the 770/800?11:41
KermitTheFraggerwhat would it cost ?11:41
tigertare there any good java apps?11:41
KermitTheFraggertigert:  xcuse me ??? ;-)11:42
tigertmost i have seen have been more or less weird11:42
KermitTheFraggerjava apps ?11:42
tigertmaybe i havent just seen that many :)11:42
KermitTheFraggeron mobile devices ? or in general ?11:42
minrano, they don't sell retail for any platform11:42
minrabut it is clear that mobile devices do use java and there are a lot of little applets11:43
Andy80Whiz: you're right! it works fine and it's faster than 1.1 version!11:49
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JaffaX-Fade: indeed11:51
minrasomebody is going to port UR-Quan Masters (star control 2) to N770 someday11:52
* Jaffa 's just had to recreate the list as he couldn't find the admin password. Then found it. Oh well...11:52
X-FadeJaffa: ;)11:52
Andy80Whiz: I hope that Skype will work too when it will be released for N80011:53
c0ffeehas somebody managed to setup an arm target for 770 and one for 800 in the same scratchbox?11:54
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Andy80I don't think so... they use different scratchbox versions12:03
c0ffeewell, i think it would be definitily worth trying12:06
suihkulokkic0ffee: sure it's possible, 770-compatible rooststrap in other sbox target, and n800 rootstrap in the other12:08
Jaffac0ffee: until Maemo 2.2's released, I don't think it'll be easy.12:08
Andy80ah... sorry then12:08
JaffaMaemo 2.2's been described as bringing the same Scratchbox version compatibility as used by bora.12:09
suihkulokkiJaffa: pft12:09
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Andy80Jaffa: Maemo 2.2 is for N770?12:09
suihkulokkiJaffa: 770 rootstrap works fine with sbox 1.x12:09
suihkulokkipeople treat scratchbox versions with way too much seriousness12:10
suihkulokkiit's not like there is some black magic that makes your brick, if you accidentaly compile an application for it with wrong scratchbox12:11
suihkulokkis/your/your 770/12:11
dwdsuihkulokki: No, but if you use the wrong sbox version, the goblins will get you.12:12
* mgedmin tries to imagine a building built out of 770s and fails12:12
Andy80maybe I didn't understand something important: Maemo is the toolchain that runs on my PC and allow me to develop N770/800 applications or it's the name of the OS that run on N770/800 ?12:13
Jaffasuihkulokki: no, of course not. So why are Nokia/Maemo so insistent on Scratchbox versions - it can't solely be for support reasons (since there's no direct support channel for Scratchbox)12:13
suihkulokkiJaffa: because of hysterical raisins12:14
mikemorrisonanyone know if there's a way to set up automake/autoconf so i can build my project for maemo and for regular linux? i don't want to have to maintain two trees.12:14
JaffaAndy80: I think of it as Maemo is the base, open source, OS/distribution which can run in Scratchbox on a PC, and acts as the base of Nokia's Internet Tablet OSes for consumer devices.12:14
Jaffasuihkulokki: ah, the best kiund.12:14
Andy80Jaffa: so, when Maemo 2.2 will be released, Nokia could release an update version of their OS for 770 too?12:15
JaffaAndy80: they could. What would change under the covers would be anyone's guess, as as suihkulokki says, Maemo 2.1 can run under the later scratchboxes without (much) problme12:16
minraAndy80, scratchbox is the build environment12:16
Andy80ok, thanks12:17
Andy80my fear is that N770 will be abandoned by Nokia :(12:17
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JaffaThere's some well-discussed debate on that.12:18
JaffaAndy80: see the last URL in the topic (
Andy80ah yes, I already read it...12:20
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onionif I install a gst plugin for a new format, how do I get the audio player to accept the new file format?12:34
onionthe gst plugin works just fine if gst-launch a pipeline myself12:35
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maddlermornin' all!12:45
maddlerheya minra12:47
* minra is doing too many things at once12:48
minrajust got dsl again and i'm kind of flipping out12:48
maddlerhahahaha... know the feeling...12:49
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* konttori shouts:"THANKS NOKIA FOR THE DISCOUNT CODE"13:00
* maddler shouts as well :D13:01
maddlernow I only hope the CC verification won't take too long...13:01
Andy80lucky you ppl ;)13:02
Andy80I bought my 770 used from ebay at 230€ :(13:02
zuhI would like to get that "your device has shipped" message already, I really want it for the weekend13:03
JussiPAnyone receive the confirmation email when they bought the N800 from the web shop? Mine has been missing for ~12 hours or so.13:05
zuhI got on titled "Your NOKIA.COM Order", if that's what you mean?13:06
JussiPI got nothing...13:06
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* mgedmin actually started dancing around the room when he got the unexpected discount code13:10
* mgedmin is now worrying whether he will find a way to use it13:10
dwdmgedmin: Where are you?13:11
maddlermgedmin: lol!13:11
zuhmgedmin: You can always give it to me if you don't find it useful ;)13:12
maddlerzuh: same here... still waitinng... and checking mailbox ever 5 mins! :D13:12
zuhI have no problem having a bag full of N800's :)13:12
mgedmindwd: Lithuania13:13
dwdHmmm... Quite a way to a Nokia-blessed country, then.13:13
mgedminmy coworker is going to the US for a week this Friday13:13
Veggendwd: nope, it's not that far from Finland for example.13:13
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mgedminthe only quesion is whether my European disount code is valid there13:14
Jaffamgedmin: if not, I'm sure one of us .eu lot will happily post one to you13:14
maddlerJaffa: said already... :D13:14
* Jaffa wishes "Status: Open" would change to "Status: Processed" (see, I'm not greedy, I'm not expecting "Shipped" yet)13:15
maddlerJaffa: where can you check for status?13:15
konttoriDidn't they state that shipments happen in the evening (like the orders received before 3 CET will be processed). perhaps @5 pm13:17
konttorimaybe jaffa bought the quick delivery by ups13:18
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maddlerkonttori: I placed my order yesterday @11pm13:18
zuhNo, they just state that if you order before 3pm CET, it'll be dispatched the same day13:19
konttoriI did too. So, I'm hoping I'll be getting it on friday13:19
mitchelocmgedmin: can you share that code? =)13:19
konttorizuh. true. so they might also have a morning dispatchment13:19
* mgedmin hopes will run faster than the 2 fps it gets on the n77013:19
mgedminon the n800, that is13:19
dwdmgedmin: That a port of the PDP game?13:19
mgedmin"port" is a strong word13:20
mgedminbut it was inspired by the PDP game13:20
dwdmgedmin: "reconstruction"13:20
maddlerzuh: yes... but they also state that it could thake longer...13:20
mgedminactuall, by an MS-DOS clone of the PDP game13:20
konttoriLooks like it uses float math quite a bit, so I'd bet it runs faster13:20
konttoriCan you speed it up by enabling the double pixel mode on 770?13:20
* maddler wonders if there is a way to check order status13:20
mgedminkonttori: I don't know how to do that13:20
mgedminis that something that SDL knows about?13:21
Jaffamaddler: go back to the product page on and there's an "order tracking" at the top right13:21
konttoriI'm pretty sure you can toggle it even in python.13:21
* dwd wonders about sending a proper, full-on, brag'n'beg email to the list.13:21
maddleroh... thx...13:22
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* maddler wonders who the hell did those traslations... :|13:23
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maddlertranslated back fro .it to english sounds like "to track and order, you want to enter order number and email address associated with the command"13:25
konttoriYou can find more about pixel doubling there13:27
Jaffadwd: you've nothing to lose13:28
konttorimaddler: That's actually more like a literal translation from finnish.13:29
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VeggenMy Nokia 770 has returned from service, also.13:31
VeggenHmm. Try to pick it up today, I wonder?13:31
Veggennah, shop closes too early.13:31
konttorimaddler: Might also help to move the HUD displays to outside the GFX area to a separate space and update them less frequently (and with no antialias / transparency)13:32
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Veggen(will have to wait till thursday when place is open until 6pm instead of 4)13:32
Veggenwhat fun can one do with two Internet tablets, I wonder...13:32
c0ffeemost stuff is more fun with two13:36
dwdJaffa: Except my dignity. :-)13:37
inzdwd, your what?13:38
dwdinz: Good point.13:38
lardmanSo what was the result of the earlier scratchbox compatibility questions? Presumably any libraries will have been compiled to use vfp in the new toolchain rather than softvfp, but as long as you do dynamic linking this shouldn't be a problem13:40
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osfameronmy tablet appears to be draining battery faster than I expected :-(13:55
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dwdosfameron: There's a small hole on the bottom of the 770. Inserting the plug provided stops the battery from draining. Unfortunately, the plug requires power to operate.14:01
dwdosfameron: Seriously, what have you got on it, and what are you running?14:01
osfamerondwd: that's sneaky of them!  I wants my money back!14:02
user_batterytime sucks on the n8, more power same accu makes no sense for mee14:02
osfameronit's an n80014:02
osfameronI charged it last night14:02
osfameronspent maybe 30 mins online14:02
osfameronand about 1hr using FBReader and the web browser offline14:02
osfameronand now, 12 hours later it's whining that it wants to be fed again14:02
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JaffaLike a damn baby.14:03
JussiPThe first charge is always less than later ones. (Or at least it was still so a couple of years ago.)14:03
dwdosfameron: When charging these things, the battery meter tends to lie, BTW. Charge them for *ages* the first few times you do it.14:03
osfameronI probably should have fed it before using it except that14:04
tigertjust keep it on charge every time you can for the beginning14:04
osfamerona) I was impatient14:04
osfameronb) it didn't say you had to on the box14:04
tigertwe all are impatient with new toys14:04
tigertand we never read docs anyway14:04
osfameronor anywhere in the pathetic excuse for a user guide14:04
dwdosfameron: It's something to do with the battery, not the device itself. Also, drain it all the way every now and then, and recharge it overnight.14:04
osfameronI remmeber phones always came with big warnings "CHARGE for 300 hours before using, or THERE WILL BE LOTS OF DOOM!!!!"14:05
osfameronand as it didn't, I didn't14:05
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dwdosfameron: It doesn't say so in the Nokia phones, either, but the same applies - a mobile phone shop will tell you.14:05
osfameronah!  I thought maybe battery technology had improved14:05
osfameronoh well14:05
glassit's not as important as it used to be14:06
* dwd brags'n'begs on the list.14:08
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keesjdwd, I hope at the end everybody will be happy14:09
|tbb|will there be a better accu available in near future 4 the n80014:10
dwdkeesj: Well, I have to admit, I wasn't at all surprised at not getting a code, and I wasn't all that bothered. But then I saw people getting codes for saying they planned to port stuff, and I have to admit to feeling slightly ignored. :-)14:11
onionok.. found it on the wiki.. pretty sweet, a portable mod player :)14:12
glasstbb: unlikely(it's already lipo).. but you could always buy a spare14:13
keesjI understand but why has it got to be so open, pushing people out of there natural way of being. just accepting private mails with motivations would have helped. I am happy I got one and feel very honored.14:13
keesjI need to go shopping for bigger hard disks14:14
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Jaffadwd suffers more than most for being British. Self aggrandising is an antithesis here :)14:14
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dwdJaffa: Quite so, dear chap.14:16
dwdJaffa: Just not the done thing.14:16
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florianhi all14:17
|tbb|hi flori, got ur code?14:18
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Jaffadwd: tally ho, and whatnot.14:23
dwdJaffa: Jolly good. Chin up, what?14:23
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Jaffadwd: more tea?14:28
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zuhmgedmin: unfortunately it's not playable as-is14:33
zuhon the N80014:34
keesjis there a real competitor to opera on small devices?14:35
keesjpreferably open14:36
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maddlerheya florian14:37
florianhi maddler14:37
Jaffakeesj: WebKit, perhaps?14:38
dwdkeesj: The problem is Javascript and Flash. I quite like the look of NetSurf, otherwise.14:39
keesjI just tried download,compile from svn on gentoo , it did not look easy :) did i mention easy?14:39
dwdkeesj: Feh. Who needs easy? If it was hard to write, it should be hard to build.14:40
robtaylorkeesj: i think there's some debian packaging for gpe-minibrowser14:40
robtaylorditto openembedded14:40
keesjrobtaylor, from reading the maemo mailing list it looked outdated14:40
keesjdo you have an url for this openembedded thing?14:41
robtaylorkeesj: openembedded.org14:41
keesjFirefox can't find the server at
keesjperhaps I have been banned ;p14:42
maddlertime for coffee...14:43
keesjrobtaylor, does it work for you?14:43
robtaylorkeesj: no, broken for me14:43
robtaylorlooks like someone's made a dns oops14:43
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* robtaylor goes asks14:43
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mgedminzuh: if you start pyspacewar with -d, you'll see a bunch of debugging info such as fps and milliseconds used by various phases of the game and drawing code14:44
robtaylorkeesj: OE is an embedded build system, just so you know14:45
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robtaylorkeesj: if you want minibrowser on your 770 -
keesjyes , and koen was on irc a few day's ago , but never found the site , I think it has been broken for a while14:45
lardmankeesj: the site was working yesterday as I pulled from the repo there14:47
keesjlardman, thanks for the info , i will first look at gpe-mini-browser14:47
robtaylordwd: for JS, webkit has good JS support. for flas, i'd be tempted to look at swfdec (
dwdrobtaylor: There's a few JS engines about. I suppose it depends on which an be integrated with the lightest HTML/CSS engine.14:55
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robtaylordwd: well gtk webkit uses jscore14:57
dwdrobtaylor: Worth a look, then.14:58
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robtaylordwd: indeed14:59
dwdrobtaylor: swfdec I'm not so sure about - I used to run that for a while, and I found it was quite a resource hog. Maybe it's changed.14:59
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maddlerdamn... still "open"15:00
robtaylordwd: its been completely redone recently15:01
dwdrobtaylor: Ah, I'll give it another go.15:01
robtaylordwd: Benjamin Otte has been working like a daemon on it. It can now run interactive flash 9, i hear15:01
dwdrobtaylor: Oh, very cool.15:01
dwdrobtaylor: I could finally look at the N800 site on this workstation, then. :-)15:01
robtaylorheh, yeah :)15:02
keesjso perhaps it is even better to look at the kde site to khtml?15:03
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keesjno, this is all very confusing . I will do some more research before I start asking stupid questions15:04
JaffaOregano is another embedded web browser, but not open. Used on PS2/3/PSP (some/all of those) IIRC15:05
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mitchelochas anyone set up any embedded http servers on the n800?15:08
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Veggenhmm, btw - my LUG is gonna have a speaker from Opera software this thursday...15:10
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Veggen(although not web-browser-related topic, it's about "managing large software projects with free tools)15:11
keesjopera also have the server side technology in combo with a j2me midlet15:11
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keesjresizing images and putting them embeded in the document that kind of tricks15:12
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Veggenanything I should get an opera engineer drunk enough to answer? ;-)15:13
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glassopml support wouldn't be bad to have15:15
glassor whatever opera called their squashed html thing15:16
glassthat they use with mini.. and some symbian versions optionally15:16
Veggencan one upgrade opera?15:17
Veggen(in theory, if someone made a newer version available)15:18
JaffaVeggen: "someone"?15:18
VeggenJaffa: Like, opera :-)15:18
JaffaVeggen: yes, but we don't know much work Nokia did on the Maemoification, or whether they'd be able to under the terms of Nokia's licence.15:19
VeggenJaffa: not open source, but I'm gonna have a talk by an some beers with one of operas Linux people on thursday.15:19
VeggenJaffa: For our LUG.15:20
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JaffaVeggen: Indeed, very cool. Services like the Opera Web Accelerator (ie. the caching/compressing proxy) would be more useful15:20
VeggenI'll probably ask him how much he knows about that and what he can tell :)15:20
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VeggenJaffa: but, should opera be allowed to and interested in porting opera 9 to maemo, would it be possible to upgrade via package manager, or is reflashing only option? I do see that it's listed with dpkg -l, so presumably it's installed as packages.15:24
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JaffaVeggen: there's no reason it couldn't be installed separately - at worst case, it'd just overwrite stuff15:33
Veggenhmm. I'll anyhow try and ask how much he knows about this stuff ;)15:34
Veggen(what's done, how much Opera does, and whether there are any new plans, etc)15:34
Veggenbut probably we have Nokia people here that knows as much or more, though :)15:34
maddleropera is basically a preinstalled package...15:37
maddlerI think is more a "commercial" problem...15:38
Veggenopera for embedded is the space that opera is trying to make money on, so just releasing stuff for free, I guess, isn't easily decided :)15:39
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* Jaffa copies the last thing he'll ever watch to his 770 (I'll give it a swansong rather than use the Gmini on the train this evening): god, USB 1.1's painful.15:53
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JaffaIt takes almost as long to copy it as it did to transcode it.15:53
Veggen770 is still a good device. I should give it a good afterlife.15:54
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Veggenit just returned to the shop I handed it in for WSOD-repair today, so I'm gonna pick it up thursday, I think.15:58
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maddlerVeggen: 770 is still a great device... simply N800 is greater! :D16:01
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kkitodo you know how to compile mplayer with xv support?16:03
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kkitobecause mplayer is really slow on n800 :_( the actual build use x11 to video output16:05
kkitoand the special 770 vo does not run with the n80016:05
Jaffakkito: hopefully ssvb got a discount and will have ordered his N80016:05
kkitoJaffa, well... then i must to wait for the next release....16:07
kkitoand canola hasnt got the source code avaliable ?16:08
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Jaffakkito: nope16:08
sxpert-workboohoo, i didn't get an n800 code :(16:08
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*** c0ffee changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at | EU discount codes are out, US comes today, for 2nd wave apply to"16:11
shaprHey, is there any info on converting palm data to a maemo setup?16:15
maddlershapr: hmmm... ?16:16
maddlerwhat do you mean...16:16
shaprA friend of mine bought an N800, and wants to dump all of his Palm data and import it into matching maemo apps.16:18
pahartikshapr: data from default PalmOS (calendar, notes, addressbook, todo) applications?16:18
shaprI haven't seen any sort of documentation for that.. maybe he and I should write it....16:18
shaprpahartik: yup16:18
Jaffashapr: I did do some playing with something similar years ago, when I briefly tried a Palm device before running back to Psions.16:18
shaprI think a TODO on the maemowiki would be nice. That's what my friend looked for initially.16:19
* Jaffa has absolutely no recollection of it beyond that, unfortunately.16:19
pahartikshapr: I have that problem too... maybe "GPE" will provide solution to that in future...16:19
shaprI hope so.16:20
* mgedmin fears there may be no good solution for Palm -> Maemo migration16:20
shaprmgedmin: Even a piece by piece solution would be some help.16:20
kkitocannot palm export the data to a  vcard file or similar16:20
maddlerat least for contacts...16:21
c0ffeedates can be exported to ical afaik16:22
pahartikmaddler: which application for addressbook/contacts on Maemo?16:22
shaprgpe-contacts or the google talk enabled addressbook?16:22
|tbb|whats wrong if get following error:  ': not a valid identifier: export: LD_LIBARY_PATH16:22
maddlerdefault addressbook won't allow to enter phone numbers...16:22
shaprIf I could make gtalk calls from gpe-contacts I'd be a happier man.16:22
maddleron 770 at least...16:22
shaprmaddler: For that exact reason16:23
c0ffee|tbb|, LD_LIBRARY_PATH not defined?16:23
shaprI've been adding extra email fields and putting the phone numbers there.16:23
|tbb|while try to start Xephyr16:23
kkitodejadesktop runs ok too, but it isn opensource16:23
|tbb|c0ffee i used the quickstart script from the m-wiki16:24
|tbb|just have edited the boxname16:25
kkitothat pim runs in 770 too
shaprHm, I should try that.16:28
shaprI like the name too.16:28
c0ffeei followed the bora howto and that works16:28
|tbb|c0ffee, which one?16:29
shapryeah, which howto?16:34
mgedmininteresting... a GPLed PIM suite written in Python16:34
* mgedmin adds another item to his todo list16:35
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|tbb|ithink i got the wrong rootstrap cause i dont got the Xepyr16:38
Jaffa|tbb|: Xephyr is outside the rootstrap16:39
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shaprLike everyone else here, I'd love to be in the N800 DevDeviceProgram... but will probably buy one months later if I am not.16:41
ssvbkkito: it is easy to build mplayer from svn, just checkout sources and run 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot', configure options are in 'debian/rules'16:42
|tbb|in the tut is written, it is pre-installed in the rootstrap16:42
ssvbJaffa: I'll try to apply for the 2nd wave a bit later today :)16:42
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kkitossvb, thank you! :)16:43
|tbb|better i let it be if im not able to install the enviroment at all16:43
X-FadeDoes anybody know why in Gizmo, I can call out via my own voip provider just fine, but incomming calls all end up in sipphone voicemail?16:43
Jaffassvb: fingers crossed16:43
Jaffa looks like a cool UI for a game.16:43
keesjlooks great!16:44
kkitossvb, it will be possible in the future to use the IVA or powerVR to accelerate the video decoding?16:44
keesjI wanted to do something like that for xmoto16:44
glasslooks nice(the bomberman ui), though.. multitouch wouldn't hurt as it's sometimes useful to drop bombs while walking16:46
keesjglass, that will work (in theory because the touches are averaged)16:47
keesjit depends on the coding but is possible16:47
glassi guess, but wouldn't it be hard to tell if it's bomb and right or bomb and up?16:48
keesjso middle center will be touching the two lower button16:48
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kkitoi cannot install python for n800, dependency problems... what are the repos to add to install python directy in the app manager?16:48
keesjyes very16:48
etrunkokkito: bora free non-free16:50
etrunkoand bora free non-free16:50
kkitoetrunko, thx :)16:50
etrunkokkito: np16:50
JaffaYay! N800 is in the building :-)16:53
JaffaUnfortunately, it's not my N800...16:53
Veggenetrunky: hmm, I have:16:53
maddlerJaffa: damn!!!16:53
Veggendeb bora free16:53
Veggen#maemo:name Maemo16:53
Veggendeb bora non-free16:53
Veggen#maemo:name Maemo16:53
Veggendeb bora extras16:53
maddlerstill "open"!16:54
Veggenare those the same? Never get those sources.list-mappings correct :)16:54
etrunkoVeggen: nop16:54
etrunkothe last line is wrong16:54
etrunkoshould  be deb bora free non-free16:55
etrunkoshould  be deb bora free non-free16:55
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ssvbkkito: support for IVA or powerVR depends on the availability of free docs for this hardware, I did not find any such information yet17:01
kkitossvb, oh :_(17:04
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mgedminhm, the touchscreen sensitivity of the 770 is not good enough for games, I think17:04
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mgedminat least when you use your thumbs rather than fingernails17:05
mgedmin(tested in sketch)17:05
osfameronit's a bit jerky in sketch on n80017:05
mgedminmaybe nokia will release a n800gage some time in the future with hardware 3d accel and gaming-oriented button configuration17:05
kkitossvb, then we have an impressive Hardware for nothing....17:06
osfameronreminds of my SE P800... that had a fun (smaller) sketch app, which was a bit buggy and jerky17:06
ssvbkkito: the fact that I did not find these docs does not mean they don't exist :)17:07
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kkitossvb, ;) we can wait for nokia to release the free docs and some drivers ....17:08
kkitobut i found that powervr are no longer to support 2.6 linux kernel, then an opensource from scratch driver must to be developed ....17:09
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kkitowhen my n800 goes to black screen after some time of inactivity it means that it is in stand by?17:10
X-Fadekkito: There is no real standby.17:11
X-Fadekkito: The device does micro sleeps all the time..17:11
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kkitoX-Fade, and to go to a real stand by?17:12
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X-Fadekkito: It doesn't need to.17:13
Veggenkkito: the closest is "lock touch-screen and keys", and wait until it's timed out.17:13
kkitoooh ok :)17:13
X-FadeVeggen: But it is still as awake as without a lock :)17:13
Veggenwell, and yes.17:13
VeggenX-Fade: it doesn't use as much power, though?17:13
X-FadeIt just ignores screeninput..17:14
Veggenand screen is blanked permanently, until you press power button again.17:14
|tbb|does go offline mode brings less battery consme?17:14
Veggentbb: logically, I'd guess so.17:15
X-FadeYep, but it uses as much power in when idle as when locked and idle..17:15
kkitoAnd it is possible to know the current % of battery when n800 is charging? Or the time to complete charge....17:15
maddler|tbb|: yess... wifi and BT are turned off...17:15
X-Fadekkito: just hit the battery icon?17:15
kkitoX-Fade, in n800 it only says charging17:15
kkitono the time to finish or % charged17:15
X-Fadekkito: remove the charger ;)17:15
kkitoX-Fade, lol :P17:16
X-Fadekkito: But the device gives only 6 stages of battery charge..17:16
|tbb|btw this morning i was going to offline mode and every x seconds it.asked me if i would like to go in normalmodus17:16
maddlerbecaus he understands how bas is to be offline! :D17:17
mgedminthe audio player on my 770 pops up the connection dialog every few seconds if my playlist contains a name of a nonexistent file17:17
maddleryou know... advanced AIs! ;)17:17
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maddlermy wife pops up the phone every few minutes when I disappear! :D17:18
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Andy80does anyone of you use gpsdrive?17:18
maddlerdamn!!! change that damn "open" status!!!17:18
wumpusyeah they should really make this suspend to mem a menu option17:19
X-Fademaddler: pssst. I think they are out of stock ;)17:19
kkitoDo you know about a good screen protector for the n800?17:19
wumpusgood question really17:21
|tbb|it where nice if som1 find out which apps needed to be running so i can kill all others17:21
lardman|lunchhmm, have to move office, bye all17:24
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maddlerX-Fade: I could kill!17:29
keesjdid anybody install bomberman17:29
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keesjmy installer fails , it just shutsdown17:30
keesjit worked cli :p17:31
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maddlerhas any1 tried to link /bin/sh to bash instead of busybox?17:33
Jaffamaddler: apparently some of the /etc/init.d stuff broke causing a reboot loop17:34
maddlerJaffa: oh... ok... I remembered correctly then...17:34
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maddlerok... my 2x4GB SDs just arrived...17:35
maddlernow only need a good device to put them in!17:35
JaffaDid I read that 8GB SD(HC?) cards also work - perhaps with an updated kernel.17:36
maddleryup... was somewhere on planet last week17:36
maddler2x4 is good enough... :)17:36
glassnah it isn't :)17:36
tzzI saw an 8GB SDHC card for $70 on  If it works I'll buy it right now.17:36
maddlerlooks like I'm going to fire my mp3 player! :D17:36
glass2x8gb would be enough for mp3 player replacement17:36
Jaffaglass: indeed. My Gmini's 20GB would go bye-bye.17:37
nelsonOh, great, *today* my mail server picks to be down.17:37
maddlerI have a zen micro 4GB right now... :)17:37
* Jaffa wonders whether to sell his 1GB RS-MMC with his 770 and get one of those 18ukp 4GB SD cards17:37
kjetilhothe URL to the DropBear DEB on is outdated, can anyone edit it?17:38
Jaffakjetilho: yes17:38
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maddlerJaffa: dunno... I'm going to keep mine...17:38
maddlersince I'll keep my 770 as well...17:38
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dwdJaffa: You're selling your 770 for 18 quid?17:39
nomisNow, Nokia has this impressive flash accessory selection thingie - AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ADD THE STUFF TO THE CART!!!17:41
Jaffadwd: no ;-)17:41
dwdJaffa: Good idea, hold out for 20.17:42
mgedminflash is for games, not e-shopping17:43
kjetilhobummer, the download isn't progressing17:43
kjetilhoduh, my "disk" was full :)17:45
nomismgedmin: they even have a HTML equivalent without links to put stuff in the cart.17:45
mgedmin"we have all this wonderful stuff, and you know what's the best part?  YOU CAN'T BUY IT!"17:46
nomis  <-- the first thing there is the N800 case. If anyone sees a way to put it in the cart, please tell me.17:46
mgedminme too!17:47
nomisI should just call.17:47
Andy80my 770 has just frozen. 'm trying to power off it but it doesn't work! Do I have to remove battery?17:48
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mgedminAndy80: either wait for it to wake up (or reboot if it triggers the watchdog), or pull the battery17:49
keesjthere is a html link
keesjbugger !17:49
Andy80mgedmin: I was trying to use Maemo Mapper and it crashed while downloading 6456 mb of maps O_o I wasn't able to stop/cancel the request17:49
nomiskeesj: yep. Nice and tidy, without these annoying "buy me" links.17:49
kjetilhothe Application manager seems hosed.  it says (no applications installed) although I've previously installed XTerm, etc., and they still work.  any tips on debugging it?17:50
maddlernomis: I think is not available yet17:50
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mgedminAndy80: the 770 becomes very nonresponsive when you try to write large amounts of data to flash memory17:50
mgedminor when it starts swapping17:51
nomismaddler: well, then they should just make that clear on the page  :-/17:51
maddlerehhh... you know... marketing...17:51
kjetilhoah.  I just removed the extra repositories, and it started working again.17:52
maddlerit's the same wit N800 navkit...17:52
nomismaddler: (but even for regular stuff like the charger AC-4 they don't provide "buy me" links...)17:52
maddlernomis: the say is there... but no way to buy it yet :)17:52
kjetilhobah.  "Unable to install dropbear"17:52
maddlerdropbear or dropbear-client?17:53
kjetilhoI hate error messages like that.  tell me WHY, you stupid computer!17:53
maddlerdropbear-client won't install using busybox as shell...17:53
kjetilhodropbear -- I'm want root access :)17:53
maddlerkjetilho: on 770?17:54
Andy80anyway this Maemo Mapper seems not to work... it says "Downloading maps...."17:54
kjetilhoyes.  I go via the builtin web browser, and click on DEB, and choose Open with Application manager17:54
Andy80and I only can see a green circle on a black screen :)17:54
Andy80it should download the google maps...17:54
maddlerAndy80: double check URI17:54
dwdAndy80: Perhaps it's night?17:54
maddlerdwd: LOL!17:55
maddlerAndy80: you should have 2.something somewhere... make it 2.3917:55
maddlerkjetilho: does it give you some error?17:55
maddleror just refuses to work?17:55
kjetilhojust the message "Unable to install dropbear"17:55
maddlerno "details" button?17:56
kjetilhoI have to achknowledge this is unsigned by Nokia first17:56
maddlerthat's ok...17:56
kjetilhohmm, how can I check that I have enough "device memory"?17:56
maddlercontrol panel17:57
Andy80maddler: I'm using the second one:
Andy80maddler: maybe do I have to use the other one?17:57
maddlerlemme check mine...17:57
kjetilhomaddler: thanks.  37 MB should be enough...17:58
Andy80ok I try wait17:59
maddleryup... that's not memory problem...17:59
maddlertry to save it first...17:59
maddlerand then open from application manager17:59
|tbb|andy which devivce du u own18:00
kjetilhomaddler: same problem18:00
spaetzohh, google is at v=2.39 already?18:00
spaetzMust upgrade my URL18:00
kjetilhoperhaps the new release can't run on the 770?18:00
maddlernever undesthood what that number is for...18:00
|tbb|err, i mean kjetilho18:00
Andy80maddler: yes, I see a world map now. The green point is on Italy (the location I was trying to search for) but... how can I zoom it?18:00
spaetzIt's a version of their maps.18:01
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maddlerandy use zoom button...18:01
kjetilho|tbb|: ah, yes, the 77018:01
maddlerspaetz: so they change it time to time?18:01
spaetzmaddler: yes definitely. It usually works a while with the old version18:01
spaetzbut at some point they stop working18:01
maddlerok... good to know...18:02
spaetzThey increase it from time to time, not too often though18:02
Andy80maddler: I'm zooming :)18:03
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Andy80maddler: I've a GPS receiver too. Maemo Mapper can see it but I cannot use now, I'm inside my home and there's no gps signal inside18:05
maddlerwell... hope you don't need GPS to find bathroom! :DDD18:06
Andy80maddler: enabling it I see my location on the map travelling around?18:06
Andy80ehehe no ;)18:06
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maddlerspaetz: v=2.50 is working too...18:09
maddleras well as 2.7018:10
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maddlermax is v=2.9918:15
Andy80what are the differences?18:15
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kjetilhogrr, I want root access to enable NFS and stuff.18:16
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maddlerAndy80: dunno... :)18:16
maddlermaybe more details...18:16
kjetilhooh well.  is there a graphical SCP client or something?18:16
mgedminsuggestion for the application installer: in the "unable to install" dialog add a button "details" and make it show the same log file that is available from the menu18:16
maddlerkjetilho: I just reinstalled dropbear on my 77018:16
kjetilhomaddler: thanks for the effort18:17
maddlerkjetilho: no problem...18:17
maddlerhave you installed xterm already?18:18
kjetilhomgedmin: aha, the log file!  I missed that18:18
kjetilho"trying to overwrite /usr/bin/scp which is also in package ssh18:18
mgedminit's very inconspicuous18:18
* kjetilho kisses mgedmin18:18
mgedmindropbear should say it conflicts with openssh18:19
maddlermgedmin: I'll keep it in mind for the next release...18:19
maddlerdamn... on tracking page I see delivery address is messed up!18:20
maddlerdo I have to start concerning?!18:21
Jaffamaddler: erk, mine's now messed up too18:21
JaffaIt was fine earlier18:21
JaffaSame for billing address18:21
maddlerdo WE have start concerning?18:22
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one_red_eyeanybody home?18:22
one_red_eyeis there a way to reset the lock code on the 770?18:22
* kjetilho grins evilly18:22
maddlerone_red_eye: no... we are all out...18:22
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maddlerone_red_eye: nope AFAIK18:23
maddlerit survives reflashing if I recall correctly...18:23
one_red_eyei noticed18:23
SonejI saw a video from the Vegas when they announced the N800. And they had a TV-out from the N800 (with i think was a USB cable to a TV), is that possible with the N800?18:23
JaffaSonej: they were using the VNC server18:23
X-Fadeone_red_eye: It didn't survive flashing with some of the earlier 2005 images.18:23
bergiecrappy piece of software that Nokia webstore18:23
JaffaSonej: So no good for video, but good for presentations etc.18:23
maddlerSonej: I think thatw was something like remote desktop...18:23
Sonejah okej, thnx Jaffa18:23
one_red_eyeX-Fade, i tried all the images on the maemo site, none fixed it18:24
Jaffamaddler: hopefully they'll get close with my postcode and then ring the phone number (assuming someone's in)18:24
X-Fadeone_red_eye: I guess you would have to visit your local Nokia Service Center.18:25
maddlerbut invoice address is messed up... so it won't match CC address!18:25
maddlerbtw... still no status change...18:26
SonejThinking of buying a N800, still considering.. Do you guys think Nokia will release another unit soon?18:26
X-Fademaddler: Mine is still open too.18:26
spaetzSonej, it will release the moment you order an N800, otherwise there will be now no devices, ever18:27
mgedminno, I don't tink we can expect a N900 any time soon18:27
JaffaConfirmation email says "orders after 3pm should be despatched the next working day". i.e. it should change to "shipped" today.18:27
X-FadeSonej: 770 -> 800 took about 1.5 year.18:27
maddlerSonej: not tomorrow for sure...18:27
spaetz...will be no new devices, ever....18:27
maddlerJaffa: I know... YOU know that...  but... DO THEY KNOW?!18:28
nelsonI remember the HP-41C.  Backwards-compatible for ten years.18:28
maddlerSonej: order that N800 now! :D18:28
* kjetilho got his 770 just three weeks ago :-)18:28
SonejThey are cheaper in US then Sweden :/18:28
Jaffamaddler: :)18:28
SonejAnd i want the US gui too...18:28
maddlerSonej: that's because of VAT18:29
* bhima feels guilty for having not done enough development on his developer 770.18:29
maddlerSonej: what's the difference in the gui?18:29
maddlerbhima: you are not late yet! :D18:29
SonejAll the menus in swedish i guess?18:29
Andy80kjetilho: I got mine 1 week ago ;)18:29
SonejThink i will ask my siss to buy one and ship it to me18:30
JaffaSonej: the s/w and h/w are identical in all markets. Only the charger differs AFAIK18:31
BULLESonej: if your sister is good looking, you can ship her to me please18:32
BULLEdwd: As Far As I Know18:32
BULLESonej: its 399usd vs 399euro , right ?18:33
mgedminfor a sister?18:34
BULLESonej: what about warranty, do nokia have world wide warranty ?18:34
BULLEmgedmin: haha18:34
BULLEmgedmin: you get sister for free, buy one get two!18:34
SonejBULLE: true, dunno about that..18:34
SonejSo if i buy one what is the first thing to do? Do i need to flash it or whats going on?18:35
Jaffamaddler: I've emailed the customer services email address. I doubt I'll get a reply, though.18:36
JaffaSonej: depends if it comes with the most recent OS.18:36
maddlerJaffa: I wrote them about my CC right after placing the order... but no answer...18:37
maddlerbtw... sounds like a general failure... I think they'll fix it...18:37
maddlerwell... I HOPE!18:37
Sonejk, i want the 07 one? And when i have installd apps, where do i access them later, console? Or do they popup in the menu?18:38
maddlerJaffa: maybe we refreshed the paged TOO often...18:39
maddlerand crashed the DB!18:39
Jaffamaddler: I did think that ;-)18:39
JaffaSonej: GUI apps show up in the menu, console apps need to be accessed through Xterm18:40
SonejXterm comes with it?18:40
JaffaNo, it's in the application catalogue18:40
dwdSonej: xterm's a GUI app you can install.18:40
zuhYay, my N800 shipped18:41
kjetilhodoes BusyBox have any .rc-files which the builtin ash reads?18:42
Jaffazuh: when did you order it?18:43
JaffaOooh, mine too.18:43
jpetersennice translation in the nokia shop "Status: öffnen" ("Status: to open")18:43
JaffaIn the last 5 minutes (since I last refreshed)18:43
c0ffeekjetilho, yes, there's an howto in the wiki18:43
spaetz zuh, how long did it time from order time until you got a tracking18:44
JaffaNow, the question is if it shipped to the right, or corrupted address.18:44
Jaffaspaetz: I ordered 18 hours ago and just got "shipped". But presumably they didn't do much processing overnight. Tracking number isn't yet valid on UPS' site, so I can't tell if it's going to the right place or not...18:45
spaetzJaffa: thx18:45
kjetilhoc0ffee: sorry, I can't find it :/18:46
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zyxulnagaany nokia800 developers here?18:48
kjetilhothe weird thing is that sudo su will run .bashrc (or possibly .profile)18:48
zyxulnagathe python2.5 environment you distribute with has a bug in urllib you may want to upgrade it18:48
zyxulnagait doesnt handle properly exceptions18:49
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c0ffeehum, it used to be there18:50
tkozyxulnaga, would you mind reporting it to bugzilla? I don't know if the maintainers are listening18:50
maddlahdamn... power failure...18:50
zyxulnagaok url?18:50
maddlahJaffa: SHIPPED!!!18:50
c0ffeekjetilho, the .profile is only read on boot18:50
c0ffeekjetilho, but you can add some setting so a user defined file will be read on every ash start18:50
zyxulnagabasically the python-environment package needs to be updated18:51
bhimaSo, I know that the battery stuff is not open-sourced. Is it possible to build a complete kernel and add in the closed source stuff as a binary blob?18:51
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zyxulnagaif you guys included the .py files its just 1 line patch18:51
zyxulnagatko: thx18:51
tkozyxulnaga, no, wait18:52
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aCiDBaSetko, zyxulnaga: please, fill a bug report on We will release a bugfix version today...18:53
zyxulnagaok which one of the two?18:53
zyxulnagathe one tko gave me or yours?18:53
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tkourgh.. so much for centralized bug tracker18:53
SonejDoes Opera 8.5 support tabs? Or is there a way to load 3-4 pages and "alt+tab" them?18:53
bhimaie: how much can I actually do without Nokia?18:53
zyxulnagaI 'll fill in both18:53
dwdSonej: Multiple windows and things, at least on the 770.18:54
Soneji see18:54
bhimaOh, also, I have an app idea, if it hasn't been done: Opera Crash Assistant. Tracks the open windows and history of Opera.18:54
aCiDBaSetko: we've moved to garage now... it's easier to maintain a package in garage than in the SDK...18:54
dwdbhima: AFAIK, you can build custom kernels for Maemo devices, yes. Otherwise Nokia would be in breach of the GPL.18:54
bhimaWhen Opera dies, it pops up and shows you the history stuff. Lets you choose whether to reload all of Opera's windows, or, say, load them each one by one, figure out which one died, and go back in history.18:55
bhima(useful if you use google to find info, and reach sites that crash...)18:55
zyxulnagaI filled it in the first one18:56
tkoaCiDBaSe, but it makes pointing people to right place a bit more difficult (could be fixed by an index page covering all components included in the sdk, though)18:56
zyxulnagagoing to fill it in pymamo now18:56
zyxulnagaits just 1 line really18:56
zyxulnagai have the bug fix18:56
bhima(I find that Opera crashes too often on my 770, which makes googling quite irritating)18:57
Jaffamaddler: yeah, but to where?!18:58
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konfoo-bhima that would be a handy app18:59
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Takmorning maemers19:01
JaffaAnyone with a newly shipped device been able to track it yet?19:04
JaffaThat's the new reload fun.19:04
bhima Is Opera on the N800 less crashy?19:05
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tigerti havent had much browser crashing on the 770 even19:06
maddlerJaffa: beside being somehow messed up the address is complete...19:06
tigerti guess it depends on the usage19:06
Takditto @ tigert19:06
zyxulnagaaCiDBaSe: posted19:06
bhimaSites that work well on my 770 always seem to work well.19:07
zyxulnagaif you want the patch let me know19:07
maddlerJaffa: I'm waiting for UPS tracking to update to check...19:07
aCiDBaSezyxulnaga: thanks...19:07
zyxulnagano prb19:07
TakI've had device reboots because of unsuspectingly browsing to sites with huge flash content, but very few opera crashes19:07
maddlerflash is EVIL!19:08
Takno argument here19:08
dwdmaddler: No, Ming was the evil one. Flash was good, if a little naïve.19:08
bhimaI may argue semantics...19:08
maddlerflash is for marketing people...19:08
Takone of them pissed me off, because it was a "free wifi" passthrough page19:08
bhimaFlash can be used for nice things.19:09
maddlerdwd: hahaha19:09
keesjflash programming with mtasc is actually quite funny19:09
* dwd notes there was an open-source flash clone called Ming, once.19:09
maddleryup... the point is 99% flash is used just to kill bandwidth...19:09
keesjI haven't tried the freemind flash on the n770 yet19:09
suihkulokkidoes anyone have flash files that chrash browser/device reliably?19:10
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mgedmin"But is starting to feel like a black hole." -- seen on the list19:12
mgedmin*starting to*???19:12
* mgedmin should not poke fun, but /me cannot resist19:12
Takvery nice19:13
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tkoMDK, I think that's for you :-P19:13
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Takhmm - is klaus rotter in-channel?19:15
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bhimaLooks like a second RS-MMC card has gone *poof*19:17
bhimaI've never even used it for swap or anything marginally bad.19:26
wumpusthey just go *poof* like that? or does it have corruption19:27
maddlerhas anyone tested ekiga on n800?19:28
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bhimait sometimes works fine for a bit.19:29
Jaffamaddler: talks about 77019:29
bhimaand then it freezes or dies in some way.19:29
bhimafreezes on my desktop.19:29
maddleryup... saw that already...19:30
maddlerI'll have to give it a try...19:30
maddlerI need a SIP client...19:30
maddlerhmmm... is it possible to use gizmo as a SIP client?19:31
maddlerI need a SIP client since nor gizmo neither skype are selling .it phone numbers...19:31
mgedmingizmo uses SIP, I think19:33
bhimaI don't see myself using VoIP on the 770 without an external headset.19:34
bhimaDoes the N800 let you plug an external mic in?19:34
Jaffabhima: I believe so19:34
Takapparently sip is new in gizmo 2.0 ?19:35
bhimaDamn. I don't want an excuse to buy an N800.19:35
bhimaThe Neo1973 and iPhone are on my list.19:35
maddlermgedmin: yup...but AFAIK it won't allow you to specify a server <> from gizmo...19:35
|tbb|icant use gizmo anymore,n800 related19:36
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tigertbhima, the headphone plug is the three-contact 3.5mm plug. one connector is mic.19:37
|tbb|it works well on my n770 before19:37
tigertand it comes with a headset.19:37
bhimatigert: ooh, nifty. Glad they did that.19:37
tigertmuch like a cellphone set, a mic on the cord that dangles around your throat level. works pretty sweet.19:38
|tbb|but now if i dial a number like +497141298... it say that the number isnt known :/19:38
tigertand those standard earbud phones. not awesome. but pretty fine.19:38
bhimaMy E70 has VoIP support, but it doesn't work via IP masqeraded systems.19:39
tigertvery nice for voip in the bus etc public place19:39
* bhima contemplates something evil...19:39
|tbb|the curios thing about this is that i use the number from the called history19:39
tigertyes. telepathy triess to work around some NAT stuff19:39
bhimaThe E70 doesn't support STUN.19:39
maddlerJaffa: you know what? I think the order of the field shown in the tracking page is the order in which they need to be printed on UPS forms...19:40
|tbb|any idea whats wrong, anyone using gizmo?19:40
bhimaAnd, its UI doesn't make it work nicely for random wifi connectivity.19:40
tigertbut its also that telcos also are known to block voip in order to make people use voice instead of data calls19:40
maddlerttb... dunno... but right now I'm unable to place a call...19:40
Andy80maddler: I use Gizmo 2 too. And.. yes.. missing .it numbers :( (I'm italian too!)19:40
Jaffamaddler: mine's lost the street name and house number - but I believe you could be right. It makes sense it'd change with the shipping (well, if it makes sense for it to change at all)19:40
maddleroh... Andy80.... nice to know!19:41
maddlerwhere from?19:41
Andy80maddler: Tuscany19:41
maddlerJaffa: hehehe... you know... engineers... :D19:41
maddlerJaffa: sounds _STRANGE_ but... that's the ONLY reason I see for such a change...19:41
maddlerit makes NO sens at all...19:41
Jaffamaddler: yeah, my job title may now be "consultant" ("senior consultant", even) but Nokia still consider me a developer :-)19:41
|tbb|im from germany, so it might be a eurpan problem19:41
maddlerAndy80: drop me a line if you'll be in rome then...19:42
maddlerhahaha... senior security consultant here :D19:42
tkoJaffa, just return the device and we can fix that... :)19:42
maddlertbb... maybe...19:42
Andy80maddler: very difficoult... I study in Florence and I never travel :\19:43
* bhima 's title is Chief Information Officer.19:43
maddlerAndy80: good boy! :D19:43
kjetilhoanyone know if you can get the NaviCore software without the GPS device?  I already have one which I bought for use with my E61 ...19:43
maddlerbhima... something like a police informant? :DDDDDDD19:43
maddlerkjetilho: not afaik19:43
Juhazkjetilho, yep19:43
bhimamaddler: I"m ordering a t-shirt that says "Network Security"19:43
maddlerfrom TG? ;)19:44
bhimaIt has a vaguely shield-like emblem on the front.19:44
Andy80maddler: Thanks for "boy" but I'm 27 on may :D ... just restarted university after some years spent working.19:44
Andy80kjetilho: same question I did on ML...19:44
maddlerAndy80: that's me -10 anyway :D19:44
|tbb|maddler, i was hoping not , what makes me wonder is that the plus disappear while clling19:44
kjetilhoAndy80: what was the response?19:44
maddlerJuhaz: can you buy only the software?19:45
bhimamaddler: yup. I actually am network security. :)19:45
Andy80kjetilho: they think it could cost around 180$ so, no reason to get only the software19:45
Jaffatko: It's alright, if you looked at what I actually *do*, I'm still a dev ;-)19:45
maddlerJuhaz: good!19:45
kjetilhoJuhaz: thanks!  hehe, I save 10 EUR that way ...19:45
Andy80kjetilho: anyway... that kit is not so famous at the moment...19:45
maddlerbhima :)19:45
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|tbb|anyone have a number from the states so idont have 2 dial the number with +19:46
kjetilhoI'm a bit worried about the software on DVD, though, does such software typically require a Windows PC for install?19:46
bhimaI've seen references to a GPS API for IT2007. I don't see that in the maemo 3.0 API docs. DO you know if it's documented?19:46
maddlerkjetilho: I think you need to copy something on the MMC...19:47
tkoJaffa, ah, so it's only about the number of digits in the paycheck.. right :)19:47
maddlerbut asking to help desk could be better...19:47
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Juhaz10 eur? for that little difference, I'd just take the hardware too, it can't hurt :)19:48
* bhima wonders if he can make his E70 do IP over bluetooth as a client, with the 770 doing VPN stuff, letting me do VoIP properly on the E70...19:49
kjetilhoJuhaz: 165 for the kit, 149 for just the software19:50
Andy80kjetilho: I hope they don't behave like TomTom! With 6.x version, it only works with 3 nokia phones and I've a nokia 6600!! damn them!! :(19:51
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maddlertko: kjetilho 770 navkit with GPS is priced 19919:52
maddlerit's 50E19:52
Juhazwell, the navkit has the car charger, holder and memory card too19:54
kjetilhomaddler: not this package.  it contains a LD-3W _and_ a 1GB card!19:55
Jaffatko: more like how much we can charge our clients ;-)19:56
maddlerkjetilho: link?19:56
c0ffeethe second it says 'for 770 and 800' i'll order the navkit :/19:57
maddlerkjetilho: yes... but it keeps saying 199E19:57
c0ffeebut not a minute earlier19:57
kjetilhomaddler: strange.  I've probably set a cookie that I'm in Norway, but we don't usually get _lower_ prices than others ...19:57
c0ffeeit's probably better to distribute costs for electronic toys over some months19:57
c0ffeeotherwise Mrs. c0ffee might get pissed :)19:58
kjetilhoof course I have to add 25% sales tax at the border19:58
maddlerc0ffee: _same_ here...19:58
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tigertheh, this toolbar in osso-xterm is schweet. got to love pageup and -down...19:58
maddlerif I didn't get the invitation I had to wait at least until next month...19:58
Juhazscrew pageup and down, I can't believe we lived without ctrl19:58
kjetilhoyou have an xterm with control???19:59
kjetilho(without waiting 2 seconds for the popup menu)19:59
tigertyes. for n800 from maemo-hackers20:00
Juhaz770 too20:00
tigertoh, nice. so he compiled it for both. sweet.20:00
maddlersxpert: hahahaha... sad to say.... but yes... that "lady" is from Rome... hehehehe20:01
maddlerat least judging from her accent...20:01
sxpertyou can hear *her* accent ?20:02
tigertdamn, i need to link to that page! duh.20:02
tigertbut inz implemented that.20:03
kjetilhoheh, I want easy access to C-a p and C-a n, too (actually C-o in my case)20:04
maddlersxpert: yep...20:04
tigertc-ap is there. see the mockup.20:04
kjetilhoyes, but can you configure it?20:04
Jaffatigert: that's been implemented? cool.20:04
Andy80maddler: ahaha :D20:04
tigertalso afaik its in gconf - label > keystroke pairs20:04
tigertso you can customize it i think.20:05
maddlerAndy80: a few days ago there was a girl here with a Smart20:05
tigertjaffa, yes, update your xterm20:05
maddlershe was trying to park...20:05
maddlershe took about 20 minutes...20:05
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maddlerand still fighting with it!20:05
sxperthow come, that thing has to be the easiest car to park yet20:06
sxpert(unless you're trying to use a motorcycle sized spot :D20:06
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maddlerhehehe... well... looks like no1 told HER!20:06
maddlerthere was enough place for a van20:06
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tigertjaffa, doesnt look as fancy with gradient etc, but it works.20:06
sxpertmaddler, she could have parked opposite to the direction of the other vehicles :D20:07
Jaffatigert: I saw an update earlier, but my 770 needs a reflash as there are half-installed bits of crap... and my N800's on its way20:07
sxpertlike, perpendicularly to the sidewalk :D20:07
maddlersxpert: well that's actually how she found herself... :D20:08
maddlertime to go home...20:08
maddlersee you later folks...20:08
maddlerneed to start building packages for n800!!! ;)20:09
maddlerany request?20:09
Jaffamaddler: you need to start moving your ports over to mud ;-)20:09
sxpertmaddler, can you send me one ?20:09
maddlersxpert... n800?20:10
maddlersxpert: sure... as well as you can send me 400E :D20:10
sxpertyeah :D20:10
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dballesterhi to all20:10
Andy80maddler: do you develop apps for n800?20:10
maddlerI'm SO happy I won't have to sell my 770!20:10
maddlerAndy80: mainly involved in porting some...20:10
maddlerI would also start an italian lang wiki/blog about internet tablets...20:11
Andy80maddler: porting from gtk/c to hildon/c ?20:11
maddleroh... has anyone seen piega` lately?20:11
maddlerI'm a command line geek...20:11
Andy80maddler: cool :)20:12
Andy80maddler: you do it for hobby or as main job?20:12
maddlerit happens that tools I need for my job are mainly command line tools...20:12
maddlerhand being able to have the ready to work on my IT is kinda useful...20:13
Andy80maddler: but... are you a developer or a sysadmin, security admin... ecc...?20:13
maddlerok... TTL... or my wife will start broadcasting ARP requests! ;)20:13
Andy80ahahaha :D20:14
maddlersysadmin and security consultant mainly...20:14
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Andy80ok, see ya next time :)20:14
maddlergodot! that will be my N800 name!20:15
sxpertmaddler, because you've been waiting for it for a while ?20:15
josedo you know if it is possible to use the gps from a n95 in the n800?20:15
josethrought the buetooth20:16
sxpertno idea20:16
sxpertyou could write a gpsd server to run on the n9520:16
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tigertwe need something on the tablet that uses geoclue20:18
tigertthe n800 has gpsd in there20:19
tigertand eoclue could use it as well.20:19
tigertgeoclue even20:19
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tigertmaemoblog, and a nice mobile webcam with georss would be sweet too20:19
kjetilhotigert: hmm, but now I get only 76 columns.20:20
tigertso you could get a daily image with coordinates etc20:20
tigertkjet, smaller font then.20:20
tigerta toolbar is got to take some space you know ;)20:20
tigertpress zoom-out20:21
kjetilhotigert: duh!20:21
* kjetilho feels very stupid now20:21
tigertit has to be big enough so you can use it with thumbs20:21
mgedminif inz could make the scroolbar a little bit shorter, and put a toolbar toogle button underneath it20:21
mgedminwithout sacrificing horizontal space...20:22
mgedminthat would be sweet20:22
tigertif you  use the thumb keyboard, they complemet each other nicely.20:22
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kjetilhowell, the thumb keyboard doesn't work too well for me20:22
tigertit doesnt make sense to have a half-height one20:22
tigerttry to learn it?20:23
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tigerti am liking it a lot. i have been ircing the past hour with my n80020:23
tigertwith the thumb keyboard20:23
tigertan i am very vocal today :)20:23
kjetilhohow do I accept the autocomplete?20:24
tigertit works wonderfully for me20:24
kjetilhohmm right arrow20:24
Takright arrow20:24
tigertyou turn that bitch off.20:24
kjetilhoit's a bit annoying that passwords show up there ...20:24
mgedminbut it is sooo convenient20:24
mgedminit completes all my ssh passwords for me20:24
tigertfor that reason too.20:24
mgedminis there a way to clear its dictionary?20:25
JaffaIt gets the case wrong on my SSH passwords, which is even more annoying20:25
mgedminwell, I'm sure there is20:25
mgedminJaffa: that's a *security* feature20:25
tigertyea. i turn off autocaps too20:25
Jaffamgedmin; ahh :-)20:26
JaffaAnyway, home time. BBL20:26
kjetilhoautocaps is _really_ annoying.20:26
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tigertwith all the auto-annoyances off the thumb keyboard is pretty nice to me. it also helps to turn the touchscreen tap sounds loud.20:26
kjetilhoactually yhte thumb keyboard wasn't so bad -- I must have tried to ue it with my index fingers before.20:26
tigertit gives nice feedback, even as bogus as it is20:27
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kjetilhotap sounds?  hrm...  then you need to wear headphones all the time20:27
tigertyea, try it with thumbs. having a bit of nails helps too20:28
tigertand holdig thtablet more vertically when typing20:28
tigertnah. no headphones needed20:28
tigertits the neighbouring peoples problem though :)20:28
kjetilhoit's hard to use the Ctrl lock with the thumb keyboard, though.20:29
tigertbut having sounds on for tapping increases my typing speed and accuracy quite considerably.20:29
tigertis it?20:29
tigerttap ctrl, press screen, press thumb key, close thumb kbd.20:29
tigertmany steps yes, but still quite okay.20:30
kjetilhos/hard/inconvenent.  but certainly a lot better than before :)20:30
tigertit tolerable imho. much less annoying than the dialog20:30
tigertirc in pocket is nice. i have discovered that putting the tablet in jeans bck pocket scren facing away from your buttock works nicely when walking. the screen doesnt get taps.20:32
kjetilhotigert: do you rememebr the gconf key value for configuring it?20:32
tigertof course screenlock and jacket poket works too.20:32
tigertkjetilho, sorry no. inz just said there was one. didnt look. try the sources?20:33
* kjetilho is grepping the gconf xml :)20:34
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kjetilhobtw, how do you copy and paste?20:36
Takhow many AaronL can #maemo handle?! :-P20:36
AaronL3any US developers receive code yet?20:37
tigertvia the menu?20:37
Taknot I20:37
AaronL3different ssh session20:37
kjetilhotigert: right.  today is the day for stupid questions.  I tried to use the time sensitive popup menu ...20:37
AaronL3this, time, irc from 77020:37
tigertyea, that doesnt have paste20:38
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tigertaaron, via thumb kbd? :)20:38
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kjetilhotigert: yes it has, but it resets the selection, so copy is hard ...20:38
AaronL3no, regular VK20:38
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tigertthe small vkbd has copy and paste too, in the menu.20:39
tigertthey work in term, iirc20:39
tigertaaronl, gawk20:39
AaronL3weil, guess I have to wait a bit longer :-)20:39
tigertnot typing very much then i guess ;)20:39
tigertyea, afaik european codes were sent today.20:40
AaronL3just tried copy from vk menu in xterm, didn't work20:40
tigertyou need to open vkb first20:41
tigertthen select20:41
tigertsince the resize messes the selection up afaik20:41
AaronL3yeah, everyone on the channel seemed to be receiving them yesterday, except us devels20:41
AaronL3did that20:41
tigert did that20:42
tigertit worked here ^^^20:42
AaronL3vkb is perpetually open when using terminal irc20:42
AaronL3selected text, copy grayed out still20:43
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AaronL3no big, nothing i need to copy :-)20:43
tigerti use just thumb kbd for irc, sorry :/20:43
tzzAaronL: I got some help from an Emacs developer, working on converting C++ code now into C to generate X events manually for the pop-up keyboard.20:44
AaronL3trying thumb now20:45
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tzzAaronL: Emacs uses a GDK drawing area instead of a GTK widget apparently, that's why it won't trigger the keyboard on focus.20:45
tigertturn off all the autocompletion, at least i find them distracting with thumb20:45
TakI like the autocompletion with thumb20:45
c0ffeesomebody from US got their codes yet?20:46
tigertyea, i guess its very personal thing20:46
Taknot I20:46
AaronL3tzz: i think you can still get keyboard events even with drawing area20:46
AaronL3not I as well20:47
tzzAaronL: you mean I don't have to do the X event stuff, just set a property?20:47
AaronL3tzz: VNC wraps a drawing area in a viewing area thing, makes it scrollable20:48
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AaronL3i think keypresses are handled by the viewer20:48
kjetilhoheh, now my toolbar is hosed :)20:48
kjetilhothis bit worked:20:48
kjetilhogconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/xterm/keys -t list --list-type=string '[Page_Up, Page_Down, <ctrl>p, <ctrl>n, <ctrl>o\,p, <ctrl>o\,n]'20:48
AaronL3i forget exacr name20:48
tigertkj: sweet :)20:49
kjetilhobut this changed the buttons to ^A (ie missing glyph, code 0001)20:49
kjetilhogconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string '[PgUp, PgDn, C-p, C-n, C-o p, C-o n]'20:49
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tigerti need to add tango-colours20:50
tigertthey look so much nicer on the term20:50
tzzAaronL: I'll look at the sources for the VNC viewer in SVN, thanks.20:50
tigertcan you find if the colors key is there as well?20:51
tigertdoes vncviewer do stylus-panning btw?20:51
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AaronL3tigert:  no, but we might add it, panning done currently either by hardware keys or scrollbar20:52
AaronL3mouse actions on screen sent to server20:52
kjetilhotigert: actually changing the labels worked, it just didn't work while running.20:53
AaronL3panning via mouse might be possible using hardware modifier key20:53
AaronL3i.e. hold + down and drag20:53
tzzAaronL: am I looking at the main_vbox in interface.c?20:54
tzzAaronL: in interface_main_new()20:54
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AaronL3tzz:  look for a few things in this file20:54
tzzAaronL: OK, thanks.  I'll check back in when I have something useful.20:55
AaronL3tzz: keypress and keyrelease, see what these callbacks are hooked up to20:55
AaronL3tzz: viewport20:55
tigertyea, some pan mode toggle maybe that would draw a colored rectangle around the screen to indicate pan mode perhaps20:56
kjetilhothe vkb pops up instead of the thumb kbd way too often.  any hints for how I should press the screen?20:56
AaronL3tzz: that will show how the drawing area is scrolled in scrolledwindow20:56
AaronL3colored rect, maybe, but currently, all screen real estate is dedicated to VNC20:58
kjetilhoit looks like it will tend to prefer the previous choice, so if I stop switching back and forth ...20:58
AaronL3press harder, perhaps20:58
AaronL3press with whole fingertip20:58
Takyeah, I put my whole thumb on the screen when I want the thumbboard20:59
tzzAaronL: I don't want scrolling, just a container that will hint to Hildon that the application accepts text input.  So I need to learn about GTK before I can understand your code.20:59
AaronL3required pressure can be changed from vk tools menu20:59
tzzthe last thing I need is another framework...  I've been working on Ajax web sites for a month now, and my brain will probably overheat if I cram GTK in there too.21:00
Takgood to know21:00
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guerbyAaronL3, hi, did they send the coupons for US people yet?21:00
AaronL3tzz: sounds like gtk learning is in order :-)21:00
kjetilhoright, it also seems like it helps to apply pressure gradually.21:00
tzzI might start forgetting how to write cryptic Perl one-lners :)21:00
Takthat would be a tragedy21:01
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AaronL3guerby: not yet21:01
guerbyAaronL2, I've just seen the email about Europe/US let's wait a bit then21:01
AaronL3guerby: right, none of the US devels on #maemo have received codes yet21:02
Takmaybe we just suck :-P21:02
AaronL3Tak:  what do you work on?21:03
Takxmame, fceu, vba21:04
Takand a vaporware screen blanking applet that I keep meaning to write21:04
AaronL3I chatted with my colleague, Detlef, and we may start on rdesktop soon21:05
AaronL3VNC viewer is pretty mature21:05
Takhaha - funny how we tend to focus on a category of software21:05
AaronL3need to localize and do on-line help first though21:06
AaronL3people seem to want rdesktop21:06
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AaronL3and we might get paid for it as well :-)21:07
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* kjetilho gasps -- he realises the killer key for that toolbar is M-a! :-)21:07
Takvery nice21:07
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AaronL3well gotta go, nice seeing you AaronL221:08
AaronL3and the rest21:08
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melmothIs it worth the pain trying to package swig or did somebody already do it ?21:09
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tigertkj, M-a?21:19
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bhimapackaging swig for installation on the device itself?21:22
melmothbhima: yes. i think so (idea would be to use python to access some c library).21:23
guerbyeh eh looks like I have an interested xkb hacker21:24
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bhimamelmoth: Unless I'm really wrong, I think you only need to have swig running on scratchbox.21:25
melmothas i do not have the n800 yet, i m stuck with scratchbox anyway :)21:26
bhimamelmoth: native swig would also require native gcc, which isn't that commonly desired.21:26
bhimaI just use a prefix of /sw and build anything I want without any real problems...21:26
melmothoh, so i would have to install swig on my linux desktop in order to generate the python wrapper ?21:27
bhimaYeah. SWIG generates native python and native compiled libraries.21:27
bhimaUnless I'm totally mis-remembering, SWIG is only needed for building, not for executing.21:28
* bhima pokes around to double check.21:29
melmothanyway, it looks like i managed to packaged it (thanks to dh_make).21:31
Takhmm - there's an osso method to prevent the display from blanking; is there one to blank it?21:33
bhimamelmoth: Hrm. I'm sorry, it does look like I mis-remembered. There are some shared libraries that SWIG uses. I'm not sure if they are always needed or not.21:34
Takhmm, will turning the display brightness to zero effectively blank it?21:38
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Marek_hi all21:41
Marek_is the handwriting recognition found in n770 and n800 open source?21:41
Marek_c0ffee, oh ok21:42
Marek_c0ffee, do you know whether it's natural, cursive hw recognition?21:42
c0ffeeno idea21:42
Marek_oh ok, thanks anyway :)21:42
Marek_c0ffee, btw [ot] was that you who made gentoo ebuilds for xgl etc?21:43
Takit doesn't seem like it's natural cursive recognition21:43
Marek_ok so htat was another person then,...21:43
Andy80I've just installed openssh on 770, cooooooool :D21:44
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keesjAndy80, that is very nice to have yes.21:48
keesjI am so used to it now , but that is really great21:48
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Andy80I'm using python from command line via ssh ;)21:57
Andy80too cool :D21:57
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bhimaAndy80: That's pretty sexy. But, IMHO, a bluetooth keyboard is sexier. :)21:58
Andy80bhima: but expensive :(21:58
Andy80I cannot find a cheap one neither on ebay21:58
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Zmanui don't understand i try to install osso-xterm, i try different version osso-xterm_0.12_arm.deb and 0.11 and 0.10 but none works22:05
c0ffeewhat is the error message?22:06
Takis that os2005?22:06
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Zmanui have no error, i look inside "details" and i see no possibility to install22:07
Takos2006 uses armel architecture22:07
Zmanu0.13 can be install but i have errors22:07
Zmanusorry next time it don't work and at this time that's good22:08
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pahartikTak: did earlier Maemo version run in big-endian mode?22:08
Taknot afaik22:09
gpdanyone seen a working Vim for bora yet? Are we waiting for MUD release?22:09
pahartikTak: oh well...22:09
gpdI know Vi is there - but still...22:09
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keesjgpd, mud release?22:12
myren_what what is mud?22:12
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Andy80do you think that Skype will be released for 770 too or only for 800? If it's made similar to gizmo (the 800 version run on 770) it could be possible... what do you think about it?22:12
gpdJaffa: is the MUD master22:13
keesjand I am the biggest fan (and contributor)22:13
* Tak has been meaning to do some mudding22:13
gpdkeesj: so you are saying the my use of 'release' was misleading?22:14
|tbb|wb maddler22:14
keesjgpd, no the waiting part :p22:14
gpdkeesj: ie. i should be submitting the vim xml -- not 'just waiting' ?22:14
keesjyes , for example , it is quite easy to create .22:15
||cwgizmo quality sucks, and skype probably needs more cpu and ram so i really doubt that it'll actualy be usable on the 77022:15
keesjI have better success with building from source but .deb based package should even be easyer22:15
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keesjI am trying my first "real" port of a program , I am trying to port tuxpaint22:16
gpdkeesj: ok - well i'll try and build it and if i have success then i'll submit the xml to MUD22:16
gpdbut I can't believe that Vim isn't more popular...22:16
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keesjgpd, but if you fail it will me even more interesting for us22:17
lardmangpd: All about the lowest common denominator22:17
czris there a brief page giving the biggest technical diff between 800 and 770?22:17
gpdkeesj: how so?22:17
lardmangpd: vi is always there, so if you have to learn something, make it that22:17
gpdlardman: I know vi because I know Vim -- they are the same -- it is just that Vim has about 5 squizillion improvements that make actually using it to code a pleasure ;)22:18
||cwczr: newrr, faster cpu and more ram22:18
lardmanczr: and hardware vfp22:19
czr||cw, same omap though?22:19
||cwczr: shoudl be something on maemo.org22:19
czrI'l searching. but..22:19
||cwczr: no, newer one22:19
lardmanczr: No, omap2420 vs 1710 in the 77022:19
czrah, so it's finally updated :-)22:19
czryeah, I did code on 770 some time (a lot) back22:19
lardmandsp may or may not be the same22:20
czrare there still any open source dev tools for the dsp part?22:20
lardman"open", yes22:20
czropen source :-). targetting 550, not 540.22:20
lardmanneed to register to download, but not open source22:20
czryeah, same ti-chain then I guess?22:21
gpdkeesj: the default vim-tiny.deb package fails to build with the following deps missing:22:21
keesjgpd, the debian section would be user/office right?22:21
lardmanit is a 55 though22:21
mokkiI get a lot of "mmcblk0: error 1 sending read/write command" and "end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector <sectornumber>" and most of my files on the sd seem to be corrupted22:21
gpddpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: dpkg-dev (>= 1.13.19) libgpmg1-dev | not+linux-gnu libperl-dev (>= 5.6) tcl8.4-dev python-dev ruby ruby1.8-dev libgnomeui-dev quilt22:21
czrlardman, yeah, but I had also a gcc targetting 54x which almost worked on the 77022:21
mokkihas anyone else seen any corruption or should I just return the newly bought cheapo sd card?22:21
lardmanczr: yep, looks like that's all there is. Not much info on the Ti website about the new omap either22:21
czrjust not quite. was too lazy to really fix it.22:21
czrlardman, yeah. same thing as the last time ;-)22:21
||cwmokki: how is it partitioned22:22
lardmanczr: yep. I must take a look at the GCC effort22:22
czrI don't know wheter there is one anymore. it was some fork off older gcc that I stumbled around when I was working with 77022:22
czrtwo years ago or so.22:22
||cwmokki: some cards come with the device itself with a filesystem on it, no partitions, and that doens't always work well22:22
mokki||cw, I just plugged it in and have not told n800 to format it22:23
mokkieither n800 formatted it itself or then it was preformatted22:23
maddlerJaffa: alive?22:23
||cwI'm not aware of cards that aren't preformated22:23
lardmanczr: Yeah, I wondered if it would die out. The Ti Linux toolchain isn't much better though!22:24
czrlardman, indeed. it's sad that ti doesn't see the light22:24
czror rather, sad that no one is willing to sponsor a proper compiler22:24
czrbut I guess people don't care about the dsp part.22:24
mokki||cw, ok. I think I'll try to format it now using the file manager and then try to fill it with rubbish data and see if I get more corruption22:24
lardmanczr: well, as Ti give one away, that's not such an issue22:25
czrlardman, you and I know what I mean :-)22:25
maddlerhmmm... has anyone tried mud already?22:25
lardmanczr: :). I'd certainly like more support than a spam-filled Yahoo group anyway!22:25
czrlardman, hah. you just don't appreciate all the vilagra offers that kind people all over the world think that dsp-devs need? ;-)22:26
czrwell, I guess I'll have to start hanging around here again. just ordered the 800.22:27
lardmanczr: Maybe that's it. I have a feeling that the Ti Linux toolchain is abandonware though, which exaplains the lack of emails/filtering in the group22:28
czrit is abandonware to the best of my knowledge22:28
czrthey only support code studio I think22:28
lardmanI wonder if there's anyone about with ccs who'd be willing to email me clk.a55L....?22:29
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lardmanI tried to download the evaluation version today (which I presume contains all the libs), but their website is rubbish and I kept getting a blank page22:29
* czr has no idea.22:30
czrbtw, is the maemo mailinglist highvolume nowadays?22:30
* lardman will try again tomorrow22:30
czrhigh volume even.22:30
lardmanczr: Not super-high, but a fair bit of traffic22:30
czrhmm. maybe I'll join at some point again.22:31
czrdevs need vilagra, so I'll provide that :-)22:31
lardmanI'm looking forward to testing the vfp unit :) (nothing to do with viagra!)22:32
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inzAfter the launch the maemo-dev list gained some momentum22:32
lardmanHopefully Octave will become more useable22:32
inzN800 launch that is22:32
lardmanczr: vector floating point22:32
czrah. simd stuff I guess?22:32
czrdoes gcc target that properly?22:32
lardmanczr: Just plain harware floating point. Should do.22:33
czrah. ok then. thought that vector actually meant something ;-)22:33
lardmanczr: Yeah, I was wondering about that last year when eabi was touted for OpenZaurus & I was looking at Octave fp errors. Probably not is the answer :)22:34
lardmanjust sounds cool ;)22:34
* czr nods22:34
czr0 day vectorz floating pointz.22:34
czrhmm. now I just need to think of some project that I'd do on 800. pft.22:35
lardmanczr: I tell a lie: The VFP architecture also supports execution of short vector instructions allowing SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data) parallelism.22:35
lardmanczr: From wikipedia:
czrfrom the official N-page, I saw that vorbis is still not listed as supported audio type. is there a dsp-version of the decoder?22:35
lardmanczr: nope22:36
czrhmm. that's sad.22:36
lardmanczr: I'd be happy to just get some of the examples to link!22:36
lardmanand load without a lifeguard reset22:36
lardmanFrom what Serge was saying, it's only audio that's decoded using the dsp now, video is all on the ARM side22:37
inztigert, -- is that by you or some other "Tuomas K." ;)22:37
* czr will continue lurking then22:38
czrif I will disappointed by 800 when it arrives, I will just blame it on you all then :-)22:38
lardmanczr: and vice versa ;)22:39
czrif I blame you, you'll blame the 800? :-)22:39
czrdeal :-)22:39
bhimagpd: Vim isn't more popular because it's inferior to EMACS.22:39
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lardmanczr: Disappointment just means a challenge opens up though...22:39
czrlardman, or it can be just a disappointment ;-)22:40
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czrI have almost no expectations. just wish the 99 aren't wasted :-)22:40
lardmaneventually, but hopefully some useful lessons on the way (fingers crossed)22:40
lardmanczr: I think that the hw vfp on its own will be worth the 99euros22:40
tkobhima, by inferior you must mean does not provide complex enough finger gymnastics exercises for your fingers... :)22:41
czrlardman, I have itaniums for serious number crunching :-) actually I want PS3 next.22:41
Takheh - my fiancee's rsi subsided when she switched from emacs to vim22:41
lardmanI want my sudoku solver to take less than 2 minutes!22:42
bhimatko: Emacs is a great way to make sure that the buttons on your device support many-key rollover. :)22:42
lardmanczr: When it takes ~1s on a p422:42
lardmanczr: Perhaps I need to modify my MATLAB/Octave programming ;)22:42
czrlardman, your algorithm is not good then I guess :-)22:42
bhimatko: the software guys will tell the hardware guys, "I don't care if it adds $10 to the cost, I need all 16 modifier keys to be pressable at once.22:43
tkolardman, :)22:43
lardmanczr: I went for a human-style solver, rather than brute force, but I guess I'd need to specify that the arrays are ints22:43
czrwell, I didn't suggest that brute force was a good algorithm :-)22:43
lardmanno, but there comes a point when most solvers do use brute force as it's more economical that way22:44
* czr shrugs22:44
czrbrute force feels to dirty :-)22:44
czrit's like soiling your brand washed slacks22:44
lardmanyep, it's the challenge rather than the result22:44
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lardmanor the speed thereof22:44
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bhimaIs there a way for me to write my own popup keyboard? I don't see that in the API docs.22:47
czrhmm. has anyone benchmarked whether fp-intensive stuff is runnable now?22:47
bhima(specifically, I would like to make my E70 be a keyboard...)22:47
lardmanczr: I will do in 2-5 days (or whatever it says)22:47
czrlardman, ah, good then :-)22:47
czrlardman, I should get my box shortly too, but I don't have spare time right now, so testing will have to wait22:48
lardmanI've got some odds and sods compiled and ready to go - whetstone, etc.22:48
|tbb|is there a new mplayer for the n800 available right now?22:48
tzztbb: yes22:49
tzztbb: Siarhei posted a link in the ITT thread22:49
hapaah, my N800 i bought yesterday has only been sent tonight :( sic22:50
lardmanMine's just been shipped too. I bought it at ~midnight last night - thanks Nokia :)22:52
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tzzbhima: modifying the popup keyboard is hard.22:53
guerbygrrr damn kxb wonder who invented that...22:53
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mgedminI tried to install bomberman on my n770, and it ran out of disk space22:54
lardmanhmm, UPS doesn't recognise my tracking number22:54
mgedminnow I cannot do anything22:54
mgedmincannot even delete files with the file manager!22:54
guerbylardman, don't worry it takes a while22:54
lardmanguerby: Ah, okay, thanks22:54
bhimatzz: I'd like to have the option of making the E70 be just a keyboard, or to have it behave like the popup, such that the field appears on the E70 and lets you edit it there.22:54
lardmanmgedmin: Has it partially installed?22:54
mgedminthe menus don't work, the status bar icons don't work (cannot get online to ssh in)22:55
lardmancan you get xterm up?22:55
lardmanand delete something or other?22:55
tzzbhima: that's different.  Yoiu want to use the E70 as a BT keyboard, I think--but don't know if it supports that BT profile.22:55
mgedminthe home key gives me "device memory full. remove data to free memory."22:55
lardmanmgedmin: Oh. I wonder how it happened. I wonder if it tried to do some expanding in the postinst script or something like that?22:56
mgedminaha, I can get online while my home desktop is bare white and ugly!22:56
mgedminI can probably quote you the application log once I ssh in and rm something22:56
lardmansee if you can apt-get remove (??) bomberman22:57
* lardman only really knows ipkg22:57
bhimatzz: It doesn't out of the box, and I don't want to actually try to implement HID in C++ or Python on the E70.22:57
czrhas anyone tested cairo stuff on 800? is it useable there (compared to 770)22:57
mgedminuh oh22:57
mgedminrm conferenceformat.pdf22:58
mgedminrm: unable to remove `conferenceformat.pdf': No space left on device22:58
tigertinz, hah. someone else :)22:58
lardmanczr: I understand that it's much better all around, and iirc will be included in both in the future22:58
mgedminmummy, I don't wanna reflash22:58
bhimatzz: The sanest thing to do would probably be to use RFCOMM and make it behave like, say, the Freedom BT keyboard as a first pass.22:58
lardmanczr: there was a recent post exaplaining that most of the internals are fixed point anyway22:58
czrlardman, well, I have a large software which uses cairo and just thinking on whether doing a client for the 800 would make sense. it didn't for 77022:58
czrlardman, ah, ok. will dig about when the device arrives I guess :-)22:59
tzzbhima: agreed, I don't know much more in that direction though.22:59
lardmanmgedmin: You could try rebooting and see whether jffs2 garbage collects any space22:59
bhimatzz: Ok, thanks.22:59
mgedminor it could fail to boot :)22:59
mgedminI'll make a backup first22:59
mgedmindmesg is full of Argh. No free space left for GC. nr_erasing_blocks is 0. nr_free_blocks is 0. (erasableempty: yes, erasingempty: yes, erasependingempty: yes)23:00
mgedminjffs2_reserve_space_gc of 71 bytes for garbage_collect_dirent failed: -2823:00
czrargh is still better than aieee ;-)23:00
lardmanmgedmin: I'm not sure how it could fail to remove stuff unless there's no room left to re-write the .... ah, I see that's true23:00
mgedminyou obviously know more about jffs2 than I do :)23:01
lardmanmgedmin: Not good form that it's allowed you to use so much space.23:01
bhimaI haven't found much written about does VPN foo interact with the 770's internet connection stuff?23:01
lardmanmgedmin: Comes from using a Zaurus for years23:01
bhimaIs it plausible to run a VPN on my 770 so that it will seamlessly roam between different networks?23:02
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mgedminlardman: any good entry-level documents about how jffs2 works?  for spare-time reading out of curiosity; it's past time for me to upgrade to OS2006.2 anyway23:04
lardman is a starter23:05
lardman has some links. I'm not an expert, just what I've picked up from fielding other Zaurus users' issues23:06
bhimalardman: I see that JFFS2 "will be superseded." Sounds like JFFS3 isn't very far along yet, since it doesn't have anything up on wikipedia yet. :)23:06
lardmanbhima: I seem to remember reading that a year or two ago aswell ;)23:06
bhimaI still want a good explanation of how the wear levelling algorithms on flash memory.23:07
||cwit just keeps track of how many times each block has been written to and tries to write new data to the lowest number first23:10
mgedmindum-de-dum: tar: Names longer than 100 chars not supported.23:10
mgedminI wonder what that was about23:10
mgedminah, ./MyDocs/.documents/europython2006/special_accomodation_files/.svn/prop-base/default_print.css.svn-base23:11
mgedmindon't need that crap23:11
|tbb|tzz thx for the link, its possible to customize the popup kbd???23:11
mgedmin|tbb|: somewhat23:11
lardman||cw: It would be interesting to know whether written blocks are moved about to aid in wear levelling. I imagine not.23:11
mgedminthe maemo 3 documentation describes it23:11
bhimaMoving a written block around sounds wasteful.23:12
|tbb|oh, then i need a ctrl button23:12
lardmanMy link wasn't that good, started off well then stopped23:12
||cwyeah, that would cost more writes23:12
mgedmina ctrl button, sadly, appears to be not supported by the vkb23:13
lardmanbhima: Yeah, but imagine the situation where all of / is on NAND, and only a few files are re-written again and again. As the available space is reduced you'll start wearing out those ones23:13
bhimaOTOH, I think that wear levelling will always have compromises of some kind, so moving around _sometimes_ may help avoid pathological data structures.23:13
mgedmintry the new maemo-hackers xterm with a ctrl in the sidebar23:13
bhimalardman: Oh, I was thinking of "moving around a written block" as "moving without changing"23:13
lardmanbhima: Me too23:14
lardmanbhima: I think that's actuall done by jffs2 to make holes larger23:14
tzztbb: you can't customize the pop-up keyboard AFAIK.  You can have language layouts, that's about it.23:14
|tbb|ah k23:15
waiteFlash access cannot really be made opimal in a general FS layout. JFFS2 makes its best attempt.23:15
tzzmgedmin: I didn't see keyboard customization in the maemo 3 docs, maybe I missed it :)23:15
mgedminI pasted the link 3 minutes ago23:15
mgedminthe documentation is not very useful without examples23:16
mgedminbecause what you usually want to do is to take the existing layout and tweak a couple of keys23:16
||cwoh, moving on write, yeah, that would make sence23:16
||cwor on re-write I should say23:16
waiteJFFS2, and genreal wear leveling, only occurs on a modified blocks of FLASH.23:17
|tbb|do i need a scratchbox to modify it or can i "hack" some files on the bora directly23:17
tzzmgedmin: I know you pasted it, I'm saying I missed it when I was looking :)  Sorry for the noise.23:17
waiteThe FLASH does not "wear" by being read, only by writes23:17
lardmanwaite: blocks can be moved together though to increase the length of unallocated blocks23:20
waiteThe tough part about FLASH is it sector based typically and not file based. wear leveling is a pain because a single bit modification can require a large sector of FLASH be copied/modified/written. Wearlevelling just makes that last write end up in a different sector23:20
||cwsince flash doesn't have "heads", there isn't a benifit to having free blocks next to each other23:21
waitelardman, sure but why? you mean for files that span many blocks? it is still only smart to do this when the large file is modified23:21
||cwso that doens't matter23:21
waiteJFFS2, iirc takes care of non-contigous FLASH sectores in a file.23:21
xorAxAx||cw: in fact, that depends on the internal organisation23:22
lardmanwaite: For files that span less than a single block, collate them to free blocks23:22
waiteHere is the trove of JFFS inco:
xorAxAx||cw: and for which sizes bursts are faster23:22
mgedmingpd: I've compiled vim for os2006 with a bunch of goodies (syntax, spell checking, xterm mouse support), and stripped its runtime directory to several megs instead of several hundreds of megs23:23
xorAxAxbut i guess bursts are only faster for tiny blocks23:23
mgedminbut I haven't built a .deb for it yet23:23
waitelardman, it is a waste of erase cycles to "defrag" FLASH23:24
gpdmgedmin: nice, nice -- you you have a tarball?23:25
mgedminand a shell script in ~/bin/ that sets VIMRUNTIME appropriately23:25
Andy80I've just tried scummvm and monkey island 2. woooooooooooooooooooooooow!!!! :D23:26
gpdmgedmin: any chance of a donation via email or a URL? :D23:26
lardmanwaite: yes, unless you keep track of how often a given file is modified23:26
mgedmingpd: sure23:26
waiteHere are the JFFS2 algos:
* mgedmin tared up /home/user and /etc, and is now wondering whether he should back up anything else before reflashing23:28
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Tak/var/lib/gconf ?23:28
mgedminhmm... good idea23:28
waitelardman, the wearing of FLASH  occurs on the erase cycle that is required for a write cycle. SO preemptinve erasing is to be avoided. And that is on a FLASH block level. Those can be pretty large. I've worked with 64K sector size.23:28
lardmanwaite: Thanks, finally a decent length exaplanation23:29
||cwnow go update the wikipedia :)23:29
waitesector based FLASED are really horrible mappings to a filesystem.23:29
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||cwyou just need to set you FS's sector size the same as the flash's block size23:30
waiteheheh yeah sector size are in the Ks. Can;t fit many files there :)23:30
mgedminuntar in /home/user; use /home/user/bin/vim to start23:31
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waiteThe wikipedia links under References is a good one too23:32
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mgedminhm, maybe my 770 was so unresponsive not because it ran out of disk space, but because it was busy writing stuff to flash/looking for free blocks there23:37
mgedminnow it is acting normally23:37
mgedmin(other than refusing to delete any files claiming there's no space for that)23:37
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mgedminwhich means I can use the control panel's backup app23:38
Ayozehi all23:38
maddlermgedmin: I'm working on a new release of vim's .deb23:39
* mgedmin tries to remember whether he ever had a garage account or not23:39
maddlerboth for 770 and m80023:40
mgedminmaddler: yay!23:40
mgedmincan you include more stuff this time?23:40
waitehi Tak. Hows the car?23:40
Takin the shop, waiting for estimate23:40
maddlermgedmin: I was considering having different .debs23:40
waiteThat is a real bummer. Hope their ins convers it all.23:41
maddlerI would keep a "small" one for 770 with a vim-addons.deb23:41
Takit should, barring any weirdness/stupidity23:41
Ayozedoes anybody know if I can deactivate the speaker in the 770, but not the headphone jack? the jack is a little broken, and sometimes it disconnects so the sound is sent via the speaker, and when you're in a library... hehe23:41
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mgedminmaddler: vim-spell-en, vim-syntax, etc23:41
TakI've already got verification that their insurance has agreed to cover23:41
maddlermgedmin: right23:41
waiteAyone, I doubt it. Usually it is a contact in the headphone jack to disable the speaker23:42
maddlerand that could make sense on n800 as well...23:42
waitetak, good deal. Makes a bad day less worse23:42
mgedminmaddler: I built my vim with these features:
maddlerhaving more memory doesn't mean to waste it...23:42
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maddlermgedmin: ok...23:43
myren_thats why we're not using emacs23:43
keesjso you want separate packages?23:43
maddlermgedmin: does +X11 makes sense?23:43
mgedminvery useful ones: +browse, +clipboard, +iconv, +linebreak, + mouse, +mouse_xterm, +syntax23:43
Ayozewaite: i think so :(23:44
mgedminothers are probably only there because I didn't bother to trim the default ones23:44
mgedminX11 is probably useless23:44
mgedminalthough I use console vim's X11 clipboard support a lot on my laptop23:44
maddlerhehe... lazy guy :D23:44
mgedminactually, scratch +clipboard and +mouse from the "very useful ones" list23:44
gpdmgedmin: just untar'd your tarball on my N800 to /home/user -- so far it works! :)23:45
mgedmin+mouse_xterm *is* very very VERY nice23:45
mgedminI dunno if +mouse is a prerequisite for it or not23:45
mgedminsome mappings in ~/.vimrc also make vim much more usable on the 77023:45
gpdmgedmin: with this tar - where do you put the runtime directory?23:46
gpdmgedmin: then just put the vim binary in /usr/bin ? - or alias vim to /home/user/vim7/vim ?23:46
mgedminmy ~/.vimrc:
mgedminthe mouse click/mouse drag modifiers are good for a useful visual mode23:47
mgedmingpd: I put a shell script in ~/bin that sets VIMRUNTIME and execs the vim binary in /home/user/vim7/vim23:47
mgedminmy ~/bin is in my $PATH (set from .profile, IIRC)23:47
mgedminbut you could copy it to /usr/bin as well23:47
*** lardman is now known as lardman|tv23:49
c0ffeeoh my23:51
* AaronL2 is back, as opposed to AaronL323:51
AaronL2any news on US discount codes?23:51
AaronL2Any US developers receive their's?23:52
maddlerhmmm... me is thinking about a free blogspace23:52
gpdmgedmin: i must be missing something - I have 'export VIMRUNTIME=/home/user/vim7/runtime' - then vim -- but no syntax so far?23:52
|tbb|whats wrong it says a dont have an internal card but i have one installed23:52
Taknot I23:52
mgedmingpd: :syntax on23:52
AaronL2Tak:  did you ask a question earlier about blanking the screen?23:52
AaronL2Tak:  any responses?23:52
Takno :-P23:53
maddler|tbb|: is it ext2? ;)23:53
AaronL2Tak:  as far as I know, there is no libosso function to blank the scren23:53
keesjthis does not look to serious
Takyeah, that's what I'm finding23:53
gpdmgedmin: nope - syntax on and set syntax=php - but no go? -maybe php - me checks23:53
mgedminyay, after a reboot I can rm files again23:53
AaronL2Tak:  It is possible to determine if the screen has been blanked (system inactivity timeout, although that's not obvious)23:53
|tbb|i was getting it so frm23:53
mgedmingpd: I included only a few syntax files, not all of them23:53
AaronL2Tak:  Also, the application loses the focus, I think23:53
mgedminwhat file are you editing?23:53
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gpdmgedmin: ok - no problem -- just a test file in that dir - works with shell etc ;)  Thanks!23:54
zyxulnagais there a way to flash to the latest OS2007 from linux?23:54
zyxulnagaor I need windows?23:54
AaronL2Tak:  Changing the brightness to 0 might effectively cause a screen blank, but I think there is more to system inactivity than just screen blanking23:54
Takthe callback hw_set_event_cb would tell me if it's blanked, right?23:54
AaronL2Tak:  It would tell you when it is blanked, not if it is blanked.23:54
AaronL2Tak:  However, you can easily tell if the screen is blanked or the application is minimized23:54
mgedmineh?  I suddenly have 11 megs free in /?23:54
gpdmgedmin: do you know if all of that runtime stuff can just go in ~/.vim ? Might be easier...?23:54
mgedminmust be the garbage collector23:54
AaronL2Tak:  by checking the focus--do a search on the maemo developer's list for inactivity, you will find a thread23:55
AaronL2Tak:  that doesn't help with causing the screen to be blanked, however23:55
mgedmingpd: it can go in ~/.vim/runtime23:55
Takhmm, I wouldn't get focus events in a sdl app, though, would I?23:55
mgedminI hadn't thought of that23:55
keesjzyxulnaga, yes , please check the website23:55
|tbb|is it while im plugged into ac?23:55
mgedmingpd: but I think the backup program on the 770 zips all dotfiles in /home/user, so you may start to get huuuge backups23:55
* mgedmin decides to reflash anyway23:56
AaronL2Tak:  one sec23:56
zyxulnagakeesj: it doesnt have a section for the n80023:56
gpdmgedmin: ok - no problem - looks like most of the size is from the docs anyway -- dumping these would save 5M - but I guess :help is useful ocassionally23:57
mgedminthe new application catalog is pretty, but there are no screenshots of the applications :(23:57
zyxulnagaoh its titled under the 770 section23:58
mgedminah, right :help is one of the things I missed from maddler's original vim deb23:58
AaronL2Tak:  I meant, whether or not the window is active23:58
AaronL2Tak:  not whether or not it has the focus23:58
|tbb|just curios23:58
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* mgedmin only now noticed the pretty green progress bar while flashing23:58
TakI wonder if the source is available for the screen locking functionality in the n80023:58
AaronL2Tak:  The window loses the focus if the screen is blanked, if the application is minimized, or if the user switches to another application.23:58
AaronL2Tak:  I don't think so, I think that is in one of the closed source components.23:59
|tbb|also i wonder the n800 wont reboot from self a couple of hours23:59
AaronL2Tak:  Someone posted about how to manually change the brightness, as used by the driver.23:59
AaronL2Tak:  there is something in /sys23:59
Takthere's a gconf variable23:59
AaronL2Tak:  Frantisek Dufka, or something like that23:59
AaronL2Tak:  the gconf variable is for the default setting for the display applet23:59

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