| Tak | thanks | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| keesj | zuh, I don't get it ;( | 00:00 |
| keesj | is it an invisible applet? | 00:00 |
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| guerby | hey I got a discount code and I already bought a N800 :) | 00:01 |
| disq | wonder if i can exchange it with a US code | 00:01 |
| disq | friend's in the us coming back this weekend | 00:02 |
| AaronL2 | anyone in the US receive a developer code yet? My colleague that also works on the VNC viewer project received it, but he is in Germany. | 00:02 |
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| JussiP | Why oh why do Nokia's web page designer have a fetish for useless use of Flash and opening zillions of new windows? | 00:03 |
| glass | beats me | 00:03 |
| glass | forum.nokia.com side is sane mostly though | 00:03 |
| Tak | marketing pages are usually dictated by marketing people | 00:04 |
| Tak | and marketing people like flash and popups | 00:04 |
| tigert | why do people buy chart music and watch bold & beautiful? | 00:04 |
| tigert | why is there hunger? | 00:04 |
| tigert | why is the sky blue? | 00:04 |
| tigert | do we need to know? :) | 00:04 |
| vidar | why, because of marketing people, of course! | 00:04 |
| Tak | tigert: marketing people like blue | 00:05 |
| tigert | blue is good though, they have taste | 00:05 |
| tigert | in that thing | 00:05 |
| Tak | sure, just not in online technologies | 00:05 |
| tigert | ok,sleep | 00:05 |
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| nelson | Tak: too bad marketing people don't know that customers hate useless flash and new windows. | 00:06 |
| maddler | guerby: hehehe... | 00:06 |
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| nelson | I guess everybody thinks that everybody else likes what they want. | 00:07 |
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| nelson | That's why Christmas is such a hell. | 00:07 |
| guerby | maddler, I'm trying to contact developpers for software I use to see if they all have one | 00:07 |
| Tak | most marketing people don't understand that what flies with a tv commercial or a brochure won't necessarily transition to a browser | 00:07 |
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| maddler | guerby: good... | 00:09 |
| maddler | I was lucky enough to not order mine this afternoon... :D | 00:09 |
| guerby | AaronL2, you have my proposal in your mailbox just in case :) | 00:09 |
| keesj | what kind of hours do those marketing people make? | 00:09 |
| guerby | maddler, I'm fine with giving money to Nokia on this project (and I didn't code anything...) | 00:10 |
| maddler | guerby: yup... have to agree... | 00:12 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: thanks, I just noticed, I haven't received a code yet :-( | 00:12 |
| maddler | giving me that code... nokia is now compeling me to release new releases for 770 an N800! :D | 00:13 |
| Tak | AaronL2: me too | 00:13 |
| disq | tigert: do you know if it's possible to exchange the code for a us-shop enabled one? sent a mail to qil but just asking | 00:13 |
| Veggen | Neither did I, but I must say I haven't done anything at all for the N770. Started experimenting, yet, but not contributed a thing at all. | 00:14 |
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| guerby | AaronL, mine is marked valid for USA and most of Europe | 00:14 |
| tigert | disq: I wouldnt know, sorry | 00:14 |
| disq | mkay :) | 00:14 |
| tigert | disq: but I guess if they got it wrong, just mail and ask | 00:14 |
| tigert | disq: maybe someone put your place of residence wrong | 00:14 |
| guerby | Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:35:15 +0200 (EET) (22:35 CET) | 00:15 |
| AaronL2 | well, I'm going to get some lunch: maybe the code will be waiting in my inbox when I return :-) | 00:15 |
| guerby | well they did make it :) | 00:15 |
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| guerby | AaronL, I'm going to bed, let me know if you don't receive anything | 00:15 |
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| tigert | also folks, if you feel you are being left out, _mail quim or carlos_, its hard to remember everyone possible | 00:15 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: ok, I will, thanks so much | 00:15 |
| c0ffee | NO | 00:15 |
| c0ffee | NO NO NO | 00:15 |
| disq | tigert: nope it's correct, i just don't have a due return friend in europe. my friend in the us is coming back this weekend, he was going to get me the n800 anyways | 00:15 |
| tigert | disq: ah | 00:16 |
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| c0ffee | Jan 22 23:04:56 nyx sm-mta[8418]: l0MM4Aub008418: Milter: to=<jochen@penguin-breeder.org>, reject=451 4.7.1 Greylisting in action, please come back in 00:00:05 | 00:16 |
| c0ffee | Jan 22 23:04:56 nyx sm-mta[8418]: l0MM4Aub008418: from=<team@maemo.org>, size=2097, class=0, nrcpts=0, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=maemo.org [62.61.85.38] | 00:16 |
| c0ffee | i hereby declare that i hate anti spam stuff | 00:16 |
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| Veggen | c0ffee: can't live without it either, I'm afraid. | 00:16 |
| c0ffee | that's not fair | 00:16 |
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| svu | I wonder - where can I purchase N800 is nokia.ie does not sell anything online - and nokia.co.uk delivers within UK only? | 00:17 |
| Veggen | c0ffee: I run my mail on a poor PII 233 w/196 MB memory. It works, but without greylisting? no chance :) | 00:17 |
| ferulo | svu: http://direct.nokia.com/countries.aspx?model=N800&add=true&cmp=BAC-N800EU_ProductPage | 00:17 |
| guerby | svu, site is "Europe" | 00:17 |
| ferulo | click on .ie | 00:17 |
| svu | ferulo, thanks | 00:17 |
| c0ffee | mine is a nsc geode 233mhz with 128mb | 00:17 |
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| keesj | and I have a cluster of so many machine , you just would not believe it | 00:18 |
| |tbb| | any navicore user here? | 00:19 |
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| tigert | |tbb|: what about it? | 00:20 |
| tigert | I used the internal betas somewhat | 00:20 |
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| disq | i'll get my friend in the us to try the code, the mail says its usable in eu and us. but maemo.org wiki entry states otherwise | 00:21 |
| |tbb| | i have written a script which parses kismet log files and write open closed work files out which u could later import to navicore, r u interrest | 00:22 |
| tigert | |tbb|: btw, maemo-mapper has also a point-of-interest database with sqlite | 00:23 |
| tigert | might wrok nicely for that | 00:23 |
| tigert | navicore is not something most people will have | 00:23 |
| hap | http://mobilecrunch.com/2007/01/18/nokia-n800-a-real-world-review-after-one-months-use/ - nice review over there | 00:23 |
| disq | i'm wondering why they didn't release a software download only version of navicore yet | 00:23 |
| |tbb| | it might be easy to rewrite it, but if u got a navicore u might be happy with it | 00:24 |
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| tigert | ok. sleep time! | 00:24 |
| tigert | later | 00:24 |
| c0ffee | later tigert | 00:24 |
| hap | btw, does maemo offers a syncing way with osX ? | 00:24 |
| hap | for contacts, etc | 00:24 |
| tigert | contacts sync with gmail :) | 00:24 |
| |tbb| | i havent understand how to create the poi db on maemo-mapper | 00:24 |
| disq | night tigert :) | 00:25 |
| c0ffee | if you install the gpe pim stuff you should be able to use syncml | 00:26 |
| tigert | http://eko.one.pl/index.php?page=Nokia770_software#POI%20for%20maemo-mapper | 00:26 |
| tigert | |tbb|: http://eko.one.pl/index.php?page=Nokia770_software#Details | 00:26 |
| disq | there's an "empty db" download there somewhere you can use that | 00:26 |
| tigert | yea or just create one with those instructions | 00:27 |
| tigert | we should start a community db | 00:27 |
| |tbb| | ah k | 00:27 |
| maddler | bye tigert | 00:27 |
| tigert | the most nasty way would just to add sqlite commands to a wiki page | 00:27 |
| tigert | bye :)) | 00:27 |
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| disq | in fact we need a networked db but it needs to be kinda moderated and all | 00:27 |
| tigert | yep | 00:28 |
| disq | maybe more on that when i get my n800 :P | 00:28 |
| |tbb| | but anyway if someone is interest, look at here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3776&page=3 and let me know if it works for u | 00:28 |
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| c0ffee | http://www.newslettercartoons.com/catalog/browseall/336.html :) | 00:29 |
| * c0ffee whistles | 00:29 | |
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| hap | |tbb|: why do you need kismet, the N800 doesn't list availables wifi networks ? | 00:31 |
| |tbb| | ? | 00:32 |
| wumpus | you can use kismet as a sniffer too | 00:32 |
| hap | ah yeah ok, sorry | 00:32 |
| konfoo- | kismet has uses, many | 00:32 |
| hap | can you crack networks with the N800, how long would it take, days ? :) | 00:33 |
| wumpus | you can hap | 00:33 |
| |tbb| | you should not | 00:33 |
| wumpus | it's just that packet injection in monitor mode doesn't work with the current driver | 00:33 |
| c0ffee | you can at least gather data | 00:33 |
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| wumpus | so you'll have some trouble gathering enough packets | 00:34 |
| hap | wumpus: ok | 00:34 |
| hap | |tbb|: i was talking about my own network, to check for security | 00:34 |
| wumpus | apart from that it's not too heavy to crack wep | 00:34 |
| hap | c0ffee: true | 00:34 |
| wumpus | wpa(2) is a whole other story | 00:34 |
| keesj | am aware that the third generation device is already under development. | 00:34 |
| keesj | I am .. | 00:34 |
| wumpus | you mean like a N800 version 2, or a whole other new device? | 00:36 |
| hap | keesj: we are reading the same page ? :) | 00:36 |
| wumpus | that's good to now but my N800 just arrived a few days ago I'll have a lot of fun with that | 00:36 |
| disq | off topic -- what would you recommend as a gps chipset? sirfstar3? mtk? | 00:38 |
| c0ffee | this discount code is for you :) | 00:38 |
| * c0ffee hugs finland | 00:38 | |
| disq | c0ffee: yeah i also did that :) | 00:39 |
| Tak | meh, has anybody in US gotten one yet? | 00:39 |
| jpetersen_ | @maemo team: thanks for the discount code :) | 00:39 |
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| keesj | and now they know where I live and I have to play nice | 00:40 |
| imrahil | who help mi with scratchbox on Ubuntu and internet connection? | 00:41 |
| c0ffee | what's the problem imrahil | 00:42 |
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| imrahil | c0ffee: i don't have internet connection in ARMEL rootstrap... | 00:44 |
| c0ffee | and with sdk_pc it works? | 00:44 |
| keesj | what is the error message? | 00:44 |
| imrahil | hmm... I got it all mixed up... | 00:46 |
| imrahil | apt-get works... | 00:46 |
| imrahil | but applications doesn't have connection... | 00:46 |
| imrahil | maemo-mapper, minimo, etc | 00:47 |
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| dwd | imrahil: Oh... I've seen this one too, on my laptop but not on my desktop. | 00:47 |
| c0ffee | can you strace the applications? | 00:48 |
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| Jaffa | c0ffee: yay! | 00:49 |
| imrahil | strace? i don't know this app.. i'm newbie :) | 00:50 |
| Tak | it's the code equivalent of holding your brightly burnished vambrace in front of someone's lips | 00:50 |
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| * [mbm] likes strace and ltrace | 00:54 | |
| keesj | greetings | 00:54 |
| pahartik | imrahil: "strace" on Linux is similar to "truss" on Solaris - "trace system calls and signals" | 00:54 |
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| [mbm] | strace is for syscalls, ltrace traces shared symbols (library calls) | 00:55 |
| c0ffee | well, without knowing strace the output might be pretty pointless :/ | 00:55 |
| c0ffee | imrahil, you'd put strace -f -F before the actual command you want to execute | 00:55 |
| dwd | c0ffee: Well, for a reasonably experienced programmer it's pretty obvious. | 00:55 |
| [mbm] | just don't be one of those people that reports every strace error; certain syscalls are expected to fail | 00:56 |
| c0ffee | who doesn't know strace? :) isn't that mutual exclusive? | 00:56 |
| c0ffee | i once reported a bug in strace | 00:57 |
| dwd | c0ffee: Well, it's a tool that an experienced programmer not doing much Linux programming might not have come across. | 00:57 |
| c0ffee | the maintainer answered "i don't understand the code, so i will only commit parts of it" | 00:57 |
| c0ffee | which broke everything | 00:57 |
| c0ffee | then he just removed it | 00:57 |
| dwd | c0ffee: Oh, nice. | 00:57 |
| c0ffee | and stopped responding to mail | 00:57 |
| Tak | score | 00:57 |
| Jaffa | keesj: you're awfully prolific with mud packages this evening :-) | 00:58 |
| Veggen | well, for non-open-source software, *especially* badly documented enterprise class code, strace and friends is a bare necessity :) | 00:58 |
| c0ffee | http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=6031405 | 01:00 |
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| * Jaffa beds | 01:02 | |
| AaronL2 | Jaffa beds whom? :-) | 01:03 |
| c0ffee | good plan | 01:03 |
| Jaffa | AaronL2: Mrs Jaffa - though for sleeping purposes only. | 01:03 |
| c0ffee | haha | 01:04 |
| * Jaffa doesn't have to hack so late tonight on maemo stuff, I've got my code now... | 01:04 | |
| AaronL2 | heh | 01:04 |
| jpetersen_ | ah just fixed my scratchbox hostname resolving error with strace | 01:04 |
| c0ffee | a student insisted to meet me tommorow at 9am | 01:05 |
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| c0ffee | means i have to turn up at the university nearly two hours earlier than normal :/ | 01:05 |
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| lardman | c0ffee: What do you do? Job-wise | 01:06 |
| AaronL2 | has anyone found out if US developers have received discount codes yet? | 01:07 |
| c0ffee | research assistant | 01:07 |
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| lardman | Ah, I'm similar, research officer is my title I think | 01:07 |
| c0ffee | http://ira.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~eisinger/ | 01:08 |
| * lardman also needs to get to uni early to write some VB code to grab IR camera images before 10am - yuk! | 01:08 | |
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| BULLE | c0ffee: jikes, way more people here then i expected | 01:09 |
| c0ffee | :) | 01:10 |
| c0ffee | the first groupies arriving | 01:10 |
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| BULLE | haha =) | 01:10 |
| c0ffee | so, off to bed & | 01:10 |
| lardman | background task? | 01:11 |
| Tak | AaronL2: it seems to be just you and I in the US... | 01:11 |
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| AaronL2 | at least on IRC | 01:15 |
| Tak | well, yes | 01:17 |
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| lardman | night all | 01:38 |
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| inz | night | 01:38 |
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| kpel | night | 01:45 |
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| maihem | my n800 keeps rebooting as well as having to keep buffering audio streams. Is anybody else seeing that? | 02:37 |
| [mbm] | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ReportingRebootIssues | 02:39 |
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| maihem | Thanks [mbm], I'll get as much of that data next time it happens. Unfortunately, this time the device didn't manage to start up, so I had to take the battery out and start again, which would wipe out /proc/bootreason, I suppose. | 02:44 |
| [mbm] | right, but you'd still have /var/lib/dsme/stats sowing increasing counters | 02:48 |
| [mbm] | probably a 32wd reset caused by heavy load | 02:49 |
| maihem | okay, I'm installing xterm now | 02:50 |
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| maihem | cat lifeguard_resets gives "/usr/sbin/dsp_dld -p --disable-restart -c /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf : *" | 02:54 |
| maihem | device was idle from my perspective, but backlight had spontaeneously lit up, I had been using the audio player applet | 02:55 |
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| maihem | lifeguard_restarts is interesting: "/usr/bin/esd : 13, /usr/bin/osso_hss : 13, /usr/bin/ias : 13, /usr/sbin/dsp_dld -p --disable-restart -c /lib/dsp/dsp_dld_avs.conf : 19 *, /usr/bin/osso-media-server : 12" | 02:58 |
| [mbm] | wait for the device to crash again and then look to see what numbers changed | 03:00 |
| maihem | okay, I've saved the dsme stats files to my sd card and will keep my eye on it. Should I expect any to change when a reboot doesn't occur? | 03:02 |
| [mbm] | *shrug* there will probably be some minor changes | 03:03 |
| [mbm] | there are services which will be restarted if they die but won't cause the system to reboot | 03:03 |
| maihem | Okay, I'll watch for a correlation | 03:03 |
| maihem | thanks [mbm] | 03:04 |
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| shapr | Hey, my sister is thinking of buying an N800, but she wants to know if you can send SMS messages via bluetooth or something. Does anyone know? | 03:06 |
| [mbm] | hmm there's support for jabber/goggle talk .. can't rememeber any sms | 03:07 |
| lasala | no sms won't work on the N800 | 03:07 |
| * maihem waves | 03:07 | |
| shapr | hiya maihem! | 03:07 |
| maihem | howdy shapr | 03:07 |
| shapr | how's code? | 03:07 |
| maihem | not doing much outside work, thinking of trying compiling some haskell to armel :) | 03:08 |
| maihem | hows the unicycling | 03:08 |
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| shapr | Just got back from a circuit around the golf course. | 03:09 |
| shapr | Haven't gotten the brakes put on yet. | 03:10 |
| maihem | Well too late to chat now, have to go and wait for my n800 to crash me gently to sleep ;) see ya | 03:10 |
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| Tak | no discount code, and a car wreck on the way home | 03:25 |
| Tak | if there is a god, she hates me | 03:25 |
| konfoo- | ouch | 03:25 |
| konfoo- | not involved i hope | 03:25 |
| Tak | yeah, got sideswiped | 03:28 |
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| konfoo- | ouch... you ok i hope | 03:32 |
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| AaronL2 | Tak: no code for me as well | 03:35 |
| AaronL2 | maybe US codes will be sent out tonight, but who knows | 03:35 |
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| * maddler hits the bed! | 03:50 | |
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| Tak | AaronL2: semi-comforting, I guess | 04:05 |
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| keesj | Hi | 05:11 |
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| lexiyntax | I'm looking for a password manager (to replace ZSafe, which I use with my Zaurus currently) for my Nokia N800. | 05:32 |
| soleblaze | lexiyntax: when you find one, let me know | 05:33 |
| soleblaze | I haven't seen any password managers | 05:33 |
| lexiyntax | I'll probably write one if none exist or are in development. | 05:34 |
| soleblaze | yeah, it seems odd that there wouldn't have been one on the 770 | 05:35 |
| lexiyntax | It may take a while though, my main languages are Perl and Java, neither of which seems to have Hildon bindings yet. How's the Python support? | 05:35 |
| Zer0HiT | i thought i heard someone talking about one on here a couple days ago. | 05:35 |
| soleblaze | I have a 5mb python dev thing in my application list | 05:36 |
| soleblaze | dunno how good the gui is | 05:36 |
| Milhouse | there are two password related apps on garage - not sure if they work on the n800 though | 05:38 |
| Milhouse | https://garage.maemo.org/search/?type_of_search=soft&words=password&Search=Search | 05:38 |
| soleblaze | yeah, only one has files. the password safe | 05:39 |
| lexiyntax | Urb, looks pretty, bad, and abandoned. | 05:40 |
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| klaatu | I just got off my first n800 video call, that's pretty cool... | 06:03 |
| soleblaze | how was teh quality? | 06:04 |
| klaatu | esp. when people walk around (but they need to devote some more cycles to the compression, it really looked like ass) | 06:04 |
| soleblaze | haha yeah..I think it's a pretty crappy webcam to begin with..really noisy picture | 06:04 |
| klaatu | but I have a bit torrent client running with no QOS | 06:04 |
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| klaatu | not being able to point the camera 'in' means that unless you have to hold the n800 strangely to be centered in the view | 06:06 |
| soleblaze | wonder when you'll be able to use it with someone on a computer | 06:07 |
| konfoo- | klaatu i noticed that as well | 06:07 |
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| klaatu | but it was still pretty cool... | 06:08 |
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| AaronL3 | any US developers receive coupon? | 06:09 |
| minra | i <3 somafm. greatest djs ever | 06:10 |
| minra | they've got lounge/exotica, great IDM, non-boring chillout... | 06:10 |
| konfoo- | minra: somafm = good stuff | 06:14 |
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| minra | i think i have to donate | 06:17 |
| minra | would be nice if they did 128kb/s ogg though - sounds better | 06:18 |
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| tsoo | anyone can tell me if the n800 is grainy like the 770 is? | 07:27 |
| tsoo | because of the layer under the touchscren? | 07:27 |
| tsoo | een | 07:27 |
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| [mbm] | screen looks good to me | 07:32 |
| minra | i know what you mean tsoo | 07:33 |
| minra | i think all touchscreens have that, just with the 770 you notice it more because of the very high dot-pitch (resolution) of the screen | 07:33 |
| SyntaxNinja | does anyone know if there's a recipie/todo out there for converting from palm calendar to gpe? | 07:36 |
| disq | [mbm]: hey :) so, openwrt on the n800 i suppose? :P | 07:38 |
| [mbm] | *evil grin* | 07:39 |
| disq | it's said that n800's screen is better in terms of softness (erm, hardness) but didn't see one in RL yet | 07:39 |
| [mbm] | I have an 800 infront of me, I just don't have a 770 for comparison | 07:40 |
| disq | the opposite situation here | 07:40 |
| [mbm] | and I think I'll take their word for the screen hardness and not intentionally scratch it just to check | 07:41 |
| disq | 770's screen is almost juicy | 07:41 |
| disq | it moves up and down as you press | 07:41 |
| myren_ | holy fucnuts | 07:41 |
| myren_ | welcome to #maemo [mbm] | 07:42 |
| disq | the protective layer on the digitizer (i'm guessing) is much too soft and there's too much room for it to go "in" | 07:42 |
| [mbm] | disq: ah, not so on the 800; feels almost like solid plastic | 07:42 |
| jacques | tho N800 does have a bit of the "water effect" if you press hard | 07:42 |
| disq | great news then :) | 07:42 |
| myren_ | glad to see you have a little bit more responsive toy for once [mbm] | 07:43 |
| [mbm] | you seem shocked to see me here | 07:43 |
| myren_ | i'm a little suprised. | 07:44 |
| myren_ | just modestly so | 07:44 |
| tsoo | not so much water effect | 07:44 |
| tsoo | just "dimness", I guess is what i'm concerned with | 07:44 |
| tsoo | apparent grainyness of the screen | 07:44 |
| tsoo | separate from pressing activity | 07:44 |
| myren_ | have you broken open the sdk yet? | 07:44 |
| disq | hmm | 07:45 |
| tsoo | there a chance you could take some high-res photos of your n800? | 07:45 |
| disq | [mbm]: well, seeing another experienced developer around is good news for the community. that's all :) | 07:45 |
| [mbm] | hmm, suppose I could snap a picture | 07:45 |
| tsoo | actually, hold that thought | 07:46 |
| [mbm] | tsoo: anything particular? | 07:46 |
| * tsoo browses flickr pics | 07:46 | |
| tsoo | I don't want to replace my 770 if the screen isn't better substantially | 07:46 |
| tsoo | because that's my main complaint with the 770 | 07:46 |
| tsoo | well, that and no google earth, but that isn't fixed on the 800 either, shamefully | 07:46 |
| [mbm] | well, doubt there will ever be a google earth since I'm guessing 3d performance is pretty pathetic | 07:47 |
| tsoo | like if you look at this http://flickr.com/photos/beerbong_sf/361838835/ and then this http://flickr.com/photos/johncabell/77691217/ the difference is slightly apparent | 07:47 |
| tsoo | but not very apparent | 07:47 |
| myren_ | [mbm]: never say never | 07:47 |
| disq | maybe one day we'll actually get dynamic POI's on the mmapper from a shared database, as well as google earth's database | 07:48 |
| myren_ | tsoo: the screen is brighter and more vibrant, but the cushy watery screen has its own niche following | 07:48 |
| tsoo | brighter is probably the key factor I guess | 07:48 |
| [mbm] | the yuv trick that mplayer uses on the 770 doesn't work on the 800 | 07:49 |
| Tak | brighter? damn, I could signal airplanes with the 770 | 07:49 |
| tsoo | how's performance, and have the bluetooth keyboard issues been fixed? I haven't been keeping up withit | 07:49 |
| jacques | OMAP 2420 has a 3d accelerator but it's not used :-( | 07:49 |
| tsoo | tak, you don't live in san diego, do ya? | 07:49 |
| Tak | are you making me an offer? | 07:49 |
| * [mbm] really wishes mplayer performed better | 07:49 | |
| tsoo | no, knew a friend with same name in san diego | 07:49 |
| myren_ | omap2420... proto-proto onboard opengl acceleration | 07:49 |
| tsoo | just wondering if you were him | 07:50 |
| Tak | nope | 07:50 |
| [mbm] | also waiting for usb host drivers for the 800 | 07:50 |
| myren_ | [mbm]: mplayer is all software datapath, no? | 07:50 |
| jacques | also, I bet the VFP hardware is currently unused | 07:50 |
| myren_ | jacques: what omap is in hte n800? | 07:50 |
| jacques | tho I haven't verified that | 07:51 |
| myren_ | i doubt it has vfp | 07:51 |
| jacques | myren_, 2420 | 07:51 |
| [mbm] | myren_: audio is an mpeg passthrough, and on the 770 it avoids the yuv->rgb by just feeding yuv data to the screen directly | 07:51 |
| jacques | myren_, /proc/cpuinfo claims it does | 07:51 |
| jacques | two models of ARM1136 core - one with VFP and one without | 07:51 |
| jacques | (ARM1136 is the ARM core in the 2420) | 07:52 |
| [mbm] | vfp? didn't think there was any floating point | 07:52 |
| jacques | the TI site doesn't say which exact core is in the OMAP 2420, but /proc/cpuinfo claims vfp whereas the one on N770 does not | 07:53 |
| myren_ | this omap2420 diagram indicates an onboard dsp. i had assumed some kind of external dsp solution. | 07:53 |
| myren_ | did the n770 have an external dsp chip? | 07:53 |
| jacques | define external | 07:53 |
| myren_ | seperate package | 07:53 |
| tsoo | but the bluetooth kb issue is worked out? | 07:53 |
| jacques | it's external to the ARM core but in the same physical package | 07:53 |
| jacques | let me try to find the block diagram on the TI site | 07:54 |
| jacques | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11990&contentId=4671 | 07:55 |
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| myren_ | onboard graphics accelerator ddzam | 07:55 |
| jacques | yep | 07:55 |
| jacques | "The OMAP2420 includes an integrated ARM1136 processor (330 MHz), a TI TMS320C55x™DSP (220 MHz), 2D/3D graphics accelerator, imaging and video accelerator, high-performance system interconnects and industry-standard peripherals." | 07:56 |
| myren_ | i cant even fathom what omap3 is going to be like | 07:56 |
| jacques | "Dedicated 2D/3D graphics accelerator at 2 million polygons per second" | 07:56 |
| myren_ | the 3430 is based of cortex a8, wasnt that a really low end low power arm? | 07:57 |
| jacques | I'm not familiar with that | 07:57 |
| myren_ | theres a faint possibility omap3 might have actual opengl acceleration | 07:58 |
| jacques | silly TI site never actually says if the ARM core is the F model (includes VFP) | 07:58 |
| myren_ | v. an assortment of accelerated functions for omap2. there's probably like a rasterizer or something and thats it. | 07:58 |
| jacques | so all I'm going on is the /proc/cpuinfo | 07:59 |
| jacques | assuming it is, I wonder if there are any plans to transition to a hard-float toolchain | 08:00 |
| myren_ | [mbm] whats needed to take advantage of DMA engines? | 08:00 |
| myren_ | whoops didnt mean to msg that, sorry | 08:00 |
| jacques | it wouldn't be compatible with the N770 so that might be a concern | 08:00 |
| * [mbm] doesn't know much about the hardware - yet | 08:01 | |
| jacques | but for certain libraries it would be a big win | 08:01 |
| myren_ | yeah good luck finding docs for anything ti related | 08:01 |
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| * dottedmag looks at openmoko. | 08:01 | |
| jacques | myren_, they come right out and say "unless you are a major OEM making tens of thousands of units, don't even ask" | 08:02 |
| myren_ | dottedmag: they retracted multitouch | 08:02 |
| Tak | openbooger! | 08:02 |
| myren_ | jacques: yeah, very first page. | 08:02 |
| jacques | "Availability Disclaimer | 08:02 |
| jacques | This product is intended for high-volume wireless OEMs and ODMs and is not available through distributors. If your company meets this description, please contact your TI sales office." | 08:02 |
| [mbm] | jacques: broadcom does the same thing even if you're a large oem | 08:02 |
| dottedmag | myren_: yes, I know. Don't know whether multitouch is useful. | 08:02 |
| jacques | [mbm], yeah broadcom is on my bad list | 08:03 |
| dottedmag | [mbm]: ugh. broadcomm. I still have an wifi card which does not work in my laptop. | 08:03 |
| konfoo- | haha i have friends at broadcom.. their qc sucks | 08:04 |
| dottedmag | konfoo-: are they afraid to show specs? | 08:04 |
| * [mbm] still has a laptop that for now is stuck with a broadcom chip because nobody is marketing an atheros pci express | 08:04 | |
| konfoo- | part time college kids for minimum wage = quality product | 08:04 |
| dottedmag | konfoo-: broadcomm, I meant | 08:04 |
| konfoo- | dottedmag: sure they will show you specs, under nda and if you have the business to justify their attention | 08:05 |
| [mbm] | forgot what they called the form factor that replaced minipci - 'express minicard'? | 08:05 |
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| konfoo- | expresscard? | 08:05 |
| myren_ | expresscard. | 08:06 |
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| [mbm] | expresscard tends to refer to the packaged version | 08:06 |
| [mbm] | not the bare board | 08:06 |
| konfoo- | nod | 08:06 |
| tsoo | myren_: you have a bt keyboard for your n800 or no? | 08:06 |
| konfoo- | the 'consumer' version | 08:06 |
| myren_ | tsoo: i dont have my n800 yet. no keyboard either. | 08:06 |
| tsoo | ah | 08:07 |
| * [mbm] wishes local stores would actually sell the minipci and minicard wifi cards .. usually have to rip open the pci adapter to get one | 08:07 | |
| konfoo- | heh | 08:08 |
| konfoo- | i get mine off ebay | 08:08 |
| konfoo- | or via work :) | 08:08 |
| [mbm] | I have a small surplus of minipci cards thanks to some router hacking | 08:08 |
| dottedmag | [mbm]: well, I've got one, but had to search all the computer stores in the city. | 08:08 |
| [mbm] | was all set to replace the wifi, popped open the laptop; doh! express | 08:09 |
| konfoo- | ack | 08:09 |
| jacques | ouch | 08:09 |
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| konfoo- | http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/90s_flowchart.png | 08:09 |
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| [mbm] | express card slot on the side, minicard internal, sata drives .. nothing legacy about the laptop | 08:10 |
| [mbm] | which means it's a bitch to buy parts for | 08:10 |
| [mbm] | I can't even use one of my old cardbus cards | 08:10 |
| [mbm] | the other 'wonderful' news is that most of the wifi stuff in the express form factor is the pre/draft/alpha/unstable 802.11n crap that nobody has drivers for | 08:12 |
| Tak | hooray bleeding edge! | 08:12 |
| [mbm] | yep, hoping it won't be obsoleted before parts become available for it | 08:13 |
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| tigert | whoa. -17C | 08:52 |
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| zuh | Nice and nippy, gotta love the winter when it finally comes | 08:57 |
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| elpaso | Hi | 08:58 |
| zuh | If anyone tries to complain about cold to me, I'll whack him :) | 08:58 |
| desrt | it's so freakin' cold here | 08:59 |
| desrt | brrr | 08:59 |
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| [mbm] | shit man, I'm freezing here | 09:01 |
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| [mbm] | must be about 10C outside | 09:02 |
| minra | hmm Tak around? | 09:04 |
| minra | looking at gp2x specs... 200mips arm9 core... and another arm for gfx acceleration... they claim to have snes9x working on it | 09:04 |
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| minra | oh heh, nm i see complaints about slowness and sound problems | 09:06 |
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| c0ffee | moin | 09:12 |
| Tak | hey minra | 09:12 |
| Tak | I'm not too optimistic about snes9x running at full speed on 770 | 09:13 |
| Tak | however, I could see it running acceptably with some frame skipping, although the audio will probably have the same problems as fceu's | 09:13 |
| Tak | at least good enough for strategy and rpgs | 09:14 |
| desrt | mariokart! | 09:15 |
| minra | yeah maybe the 800 | 09:15 |
| minra | snes rpgs are my fav anyway | 09:15 |
| c0ffee | 2nd wave of discount codes will come today (for US ppl) | 09:15 |
| minra | i'm still all giddy over the ports you've done | 09:16 |
| minra | fun++ | 09:16 |
| minra | i wonder how well gcc optimizes for arm... it has an unusual design | 09:17 |
| minra | the conditional execution, lack of microcode | 09:17 |
| Tak | c0ffee: yeah, I saw that | 09:17 |
| Tak | minra: ditto | 09:17 |
| Tak | desrt: I have yet to find a linux snes emu that does mario kart decently on a pc... | 09:18 |
| c0ffee | i got my old gamebody out last weekend | 09:18 |
| Tak | err, ditto @ snes rpgs being my favorite | 09:18 |
| desrt | Tak; real trouble on the 770, then | 09:18 |
| c0ffee | took me a few hours to master super mario land again | 09:18 |
| minra | "Zsnes supports Super Nintendo features which are very hard to emulate (and which were unavailable just a while ago), like DSP1 emulation (Mario Kart)," | 09:19 |
| Tak | I was thinking a gameboy shell would be a great 800 case | 09:19 |
| Tak | minra: yeah, they lie | 09:19 |
| minra | heh | 09:19 |
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| klaatu | crap, I think I justed screwed up my new 4G SD card (and I don't have a reader to fix it) | 09:32 |
| klaatu | It seemed to work, so like an idiot I decided to reformat it using the n800 | 09:32 |
| klaatu | now it is 2G and when I copy a file to it, the n800 things it is corrupted. Joy! | 09:32 |
| sxpert | uh ho ! | 09:34 |
| klaatu | I need to get xterm installed and try and manually partition it... | 09:36 |
| sxpert | klaatu, solution 2, go outside and fetch a reader ;D | 09:37 |
| |tbb| | n800 a sdcard downgrader | 09:37 |
| klaatu | it shows up with the right size over usb... | 09:38 |
| klaatu | ah, FAT16 | 09:39 |
| klaatu | does the n800 have ext3 support? | 09:39 |
| jacques | yes, the modules are in /mnt/initfs/... | 09:40 |
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| jacques | I guess it depends on how you define "support" - you will have to tweak it | 09:41 |
| jacques | it doesn't load those modules automatically by default | 09:41 |
| klaatu | df | 09:42 |
| klaatu | (opps, wrong shell) | 09:42 |
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| Andy80 | hi | 09:55 |
| Andy80 | I've read about a Skype porting for N800: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/nokia_skype_press-releaseces2007.pdf - are there any plans for N770 too? | 09:56 |
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| tigert | ask skype? | 10:11 |
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| sxpert | skype is evil | 10:12 |
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| spaetz | skype is the devil :-). | 10:16 |
| spaetz | it just happens to work nicely :-) | 10:17 |
| sxpert | for some very specific values of work | 10:17 |
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| tigert | well, if it didnt work, thhere wouldnt be millions of users | 10:22 |
| Andy80 | but... I've seen another thing... Gizmo has release 2.0 version only for N800 and not N770.... it seems that 770 is no more supported by 3rd parties :( | 10:25 |
| Whiz | that's so stupid :/ N770 is still a good product and it is really annoying that everyone is going to forget it immediately after launch of n800 :/ | 10:26 |
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| lele | afaik, Gizmo 2.0 works on the 770 | 10:27 |
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| |tbb| | Whiz, the good point is that the developer will get a sponsored device so if they port something thy will problaby do it for both devices | 10:38 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:38 |
| jtokash | Morning! | 10:41 |
| Whiz | |tbb|, yep | 10:43 |
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| spaetz | somebody from the maemo team here? | 10:50 |
| spaetz | I got the discount code for an N800! Thnaks guys, that is very friendly of you. | 10:50 |
| spaetz | However it does not work, I tried the ebshop and also the phone sales lady got the same error message | 10:51 |
| spaetz | s/ebshop/webshop/ | 10:51 |
| X-Fade | "This Nokia N800 discount code is for you" :) | 10:51 |
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| X-Fade | Joy, I got it too ;) | 10:51 |
| spaetz | Yay, now I would just like it to work :-) | 10:51 |
| * mgedmin groans | 10:52 | |
| suihkulokki | spaetz: "ebshop" ? | 10:52 |
| mgedmin | "Are the codes attached to shops? Yes, there are codes for the European shop and codes for the US shop." -- http://maemo.org/maemowiki/N800DeveloperDeviceProgram | 10:52 |
| spaetz | s/ebshop/webshop/ :-) | 10:52 |
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| spaetz | direct.nokia.com that is... | 10:53 |
| sxpert-work | nice article on the n800 in a computer professionnals magazine here. | 10:53 |
| mgedmin | although the email doesn't mention that | 10:53 |
| sxpert-work | they say it beats MS's offering hands down, being 1/4th of the price with 3 times the features :D | 10:53 |
| tigert | spaetz, mail carlos and quim | 10:53 |
| mgedmin | "This discount code can only be used to purchase one Nokia N800, | 10:53 |
| mgedmin | through the online store in the countries where the Nokia N800 is sold. Currently these countries include: ..., United States" | 10:53 |
| tigert | or devel list | 10:53 |
| spaetz | mgedmin: my email mentions that it can be used in European webshops only | 10:53 |
| mgedmin | spaetz: what's the exact phrase? | 10:54 |
| spaetz | tigert, thanks, I will do that. | 10:54 |
| spaetz | This discount code can only be used to purchase one Nokia N800, | 10:54 |
| spaetz | through the online store in the countries where the Nokia N800 is sold. | 10:54 |
| spaetz | Currently these countries include: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, | 10:54 |
| spaetz | France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, | 10:54 |
| spaetz | Switzerland, United Kingdom and the United States. | 10:54 |
| spaetz | sorry for paste flooding!!! | 10:54 |
| mgedmin | spaetz: "the United States" is not a European country :) | 10:55 |
| mgedmin | my coworker is going there this Friday | 10:55 |
| spaetz | mgedmin, ahh thanks for reminding me :-) | 10:55 |
| X-Fade | Just ordered mine, worked perfectly.. | 10:58 |
| X-Fade | The only thing that looks unprofessional is https://direct.nokia.com/ They could at least have put a default page there ;) | 10:59 |
| X-Fade | "untitled page" :) | 10:59 |
| Andy80 | lele: where can I find Gizmo 2.0 for 770? | 11:00 |
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| * mgedmin mutters "when in doubt, ask" and sends an email | 11:11 | |
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| Whiz | just download the n800 version and install it :) | 11:11 |
| Whiz | I just tried it and it worked just ok :) | 11:11 |
| spaetz | Whiz really? Cool | 11:11 |
| spaetz | Any changes which are noticable? | 11:12 |
| Whiz | I just tried to add another sip-account to it and make & receive calls and they worked | 11:12 |
| Whiz | ..the main change is that you can add others than gizmo accounts to it | 11:12 |
| spaetz | Now, that it really cool. The 770 Gizmo could not use different SIP accounts, if I remember correctly | 11:13 |
| spaetz | I was looking for a nice SIP clientt, but haven't found a good one yet | 11:13 |
| Whiz | then this is the one :) | 11:13 |
| * mgedmin cannot find http://www.europe.nokia.com/accessorieslink?s=N800Case on the nokiausa website | 11:16 | |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:25 |
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| keesj | if nokia needs my help they can call me! | 11:29 |
| keesj | :p | 11:31 |
| Andy80 | Whiz: ok, I try now :) | 11:31 |
| minra | <ach> I write Java VMs, now shipping in 50m + devices worldwide :) mobile phones, mainly | 11:35 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, anyone know if the Garage -commits list can actually be configured to receive commit messages? | 11:35 |
| KermitTheFragger | minra: having a java vm on the n800 would be cool... hint hint ;-) | 11:37 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 11:39 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I see my commits on a -commit list at garage. I haven't setup the project though, I think Ferenc did that.. | 11:39 |
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| * tigert is more interested in .net in the device | 11:39 | |
| tigert | mono should be good for network-aware apps | 11:40 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: aha, found a plugin which was switched off. | 11:40 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Make sure you subscribe your xxx@garage.maemo.org email to that list too :) | 11:40 |
| minra | KermitTheFragger, well i'm trying to convince him to buy a 770 | 11:40 |
| minra | or 800 | 11:40 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Otherwise the commit message will be kept for moderation. | 11:41 |
| minra | but it's a commercial product.. who here would buy a java vm for the 770/800? | 11:41 |
| KermitTheFragger | what would it cost ? | 11:41 |
| tigert | are there any good java apps? | 11:41 |
| KermitTheFragger | tigert: xcuse me ??? ;-) | 11:42 |
| tigert | most i have seen have been more or less weird | 11:42 |
| KermitTheFragger | java apps ? | 11:42 |
| tigert | maybe i havent just seen that many :) | 11:42 |
| KermitTheFragger | on mobile devices ? or in general ? | 11:42 |
| minra | no, they don't sell retail for any platform | 11:42 |
| minra | but it is clear that mobile devices do use java and there are a lot of little applets | 11:43 |
| minra | anyway.. | 11:43 |
| Andy80 | Whiz: you're right! it works fine and it's faster than 1.1 version! | 11:49 |
| Whiz | :) | 11:49 |
| c0ffee | re | 11:51 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: indeed | 11:51 |
| minra | somebody is going to port UR-Quan Masters (star control 2) to N770 someday | 11:52 |
| * Jaffa 's just had to recreate the list as he couldn't find the admin password. Then found it. Oh well... | 11:52 | |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: ;) | 11:52 |
| Andy80 | Whiz: I hope that Skype will work too when it will be released for N800 | 11:53 |
| c0ffee | has somebody managed to setup an arm target for 770 and one for 800 in the same scratchbox? | 11:54 |
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| Andy80 | I don't think so... they use different scratchbox versions | 12:03 |
| c0ffee | well, i think it would be definitily worth trying | 12:06 |
| suihkulokki | c0ffee: sure it's possible, 770-compatible rooststrap in other sbox target, and n800 rootstrap in the other | 12:08 |
| Jaffa | c0ffee: until Maemo 2.2's released, I don't think it'll be easy. | 12:08 |
| Andy80 | ah... sorry then | 12:08 |
| suihkulokki | it | 12:09 |
| Jaffa | Maemo 2.2's been described as bringing the same Scratchbox version compatibility as used by bora. | 12:09 |
| suihkulokki | Jaffa: pft | 12:09 |
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| Andy80 | Jaffa: Maemo 2.2 is for N770? | 12:09 |
| suihkulokki | Jaffa: 770 rootstrap works fine with sbox 1.x | 12:09 |
| suihkulokki | people treat scratchbox versions with way too much seriousness | 12:10 |
| suihkulokki | it's not like there is some black magic that makes your brick, if you accidentaly compile an application for it with wrong scratchbox | 12:11 |
| suihkulokki | s/your/your 770/ | 12:11 |
| dwd | suihkulokki: No, but if you use the wrong sbox version, the goblins will get you. | 12:12 |
| * mgedmin tries to imagine a building built out of 770s and fails | 12:12 | |
| Andy80 | maybe I didn't understand something important: Maemo is the toolchain that runs on my PC and allow me to develop N770/800 applications or it's the name of the OS that run on N770/800 ? | 12:13 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: no, of course not. So why are Nokia/Maemo so insistent on Scratchbox versions - it can't solely be for support reasons (since there's no direct support channel for Scratchbox) | 12:13 |
| suihkulokki | Jaffa: because of hysterical raisins | 12:14 |
| mikemorrison | anyone know if there's a way to set up automake/autoconf so i can build my project for maemo and for regular linux? i don't want to have to maintain two trees. | 12:14 |
| Jaffa | Andy80: I think of it as Maemo is the base, open source, OS/distribution which can run in Scratchbox on a PC, and acts as the base of Nokia's Internet Tablet OSes for consumer devices. | 12:14 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: ah, the best kiund. | 12:14 |
| Andy80 | Jaffa: so, when Maemo 2.2 will be released, Nokia could release an update version of their OS for 770 too? | 12:15 |
| Jaffa | Andy80: they could. What would change under the covers would be anyone's guess, as as suihkulokki says, Maemo 2.1 can run under the later scratchboxes without (much) problme | 12:16 |
| minra | Andy80, scratchbox is the build environment | 12:16 |
| Andy80 | ok, thanks | 12:17 |
| Andy80 | my fear is that N770 will be abandoned by Nokia :( | 12:17 |
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| Jaffa | There's some well-discussed debate on that. | 12:18 |
| Jaffa | Andy80: see the last URL in the topic (http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh) | 12:19 |
| Andy80 | ah yes, I already read it... | 12:20 |
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| onion | if I install a gst plugin for a new format, how do I get the audio player to accept the new file format? | 12:34 |
| onion | the gst plugin works just fine if gst-launch a pipeline myself | 12:35 |
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| maddler | mornin' all! | 12:45 |
| minra | moohoo | 12:46 |
| maddler | heya minra | 12:47 |
| * minra is doing too many things at once | 12:48 | |
| minra | just got dsl again and i'm kind of flipping out | 12:48 |
| maddler | hahahaha... know the feeling... | 12:49 |
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| * konttori shouts:"THANKS NOKIA FOR THE DISCOUNT CODE" | 13:00 | |
| * maddler shouts as well :D | 13:01 | |
| maddler | now I only hope the CC verification won't take too long... | 13:01 |
| Andy80 | lucky you ppl ;) | 13:02 |
| Andy80 | I bought my 770 used from ebay at 230€ :( | 13:02 |
| zuh | I would like to get that "your device has shipped" message already, I really want it for the weekend | 13:03 |
| JussiP | Anyone receive the confirmation email when they bought the N800 from the web shop? Mine has been missing for ~12 hours or so. | 13:05 |
| zuh | I got on titled "Your NOKIA.COM Order", if that's what you mean? | 13:06 |
| zuh | *one | 13:06 |
| JussiP | I got nothing... | 13:06 |
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| * mgedmin actually started dancing around the room when he got the unexpected discount code | 13:10 | |
| * mgedmin is now worrying whether he will find a way to use it | 13:10 | |
| dwd | mgedmin: Where are you? | 13:11 |
| maddler | mgedmin: lol! | 13:11 |
| zuh | mgedmin: You can always give it to me if you don't find it useful ;) | 13:12 |
| maddler | zuh: same here... still waitinng... and checking mailbox ever 5 mins! :D | 13:12 |
| zuh | I have no problem having a bag full of N800's :) | 13:12 |
| zuh | +with | 13:12 |
| mgedmin | dwd: Lithuania | 13:13 |
| dwd | Hmmm... Quite a way to a Nokia-blessed country, then. | 13:13 |
| mgedmin | my coworker is going to the US for a week this Friday | 13:13 |
| Veggen | dwd: nope, it's not that far from Finland for example. | 13:13 |
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| mgedmin | the only quesion is whether my European disount code is valid there | 13:14 |
| mgedmin | s/quesion/question | 13:14 |
| mgedmin | s/only// | 13:14 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: if not, I'm sure one of us .eu lot will happily post one to you | 13:14 |
| maddler | Jaffa: said already... :D | 13:14 |
| * Jaffa wishes "Status: Open" would change to "Status: Processed" (see, I'm not greedy, I'm not expecting "Shipped" yet) | 13:15 | |
| maddler | Jaffa: where can you check for status? | 13:15 |
| konttori | Didn't they state that shipments happen in the evening (like the orders received before 3 CET will be processed). perhaps @5 pm | 13:17 |
| konttori | maybe jaffa bought the quick delivery by ups | 13:18 |
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| maddler | konttori: I placed my order yesterday @11pm | 13:18 |
| zuh | No, they just state that if you order before 3pm CET, it'll be dispatched the same day | 13:19 |
| konttori | I did too. So, I'm hoping I'll be getting it on friday | 13:19 |
| mitcheloc | mgedmin: can you share that code? =) | 13:19 |
| konttori | zuh. true. so they might also have a morning dispatchment | 13:19 |
| * mgedmin hopes http://mg.pov.lt/pyspacewar/ will run faster than the 2 fps it gets on the n770 | 13:19 | |
| mgedmin | on the n800, that is | 13:19 |
| dwd | mgedmin: That a port of the PDP game? | 13:19 |
| mgedmin | "port" is a strong word | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | but it was inspired by the PDP game | 13:20 |
| dwd | mgedmin: "reconstruction" | 13:20 |
| maddler | zuh: yes... but they also state that it could thake longer... | 13:20 |
| maddler | s/thake/take | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | actuall, by an MS-DOS clone of the PDP game | 13:20 |
| konttori | Looks like it uses float math quite a bit, so I'd bet it runs faster | 13:20 |
| konttori | Can you speed it up by enabling the double pixel mode on 770? | 13:20 |
| * maddler wonders if there is a way to check order status | 13:20 | |
| mgedmin | konttori: I don't know how to do that | 13:20 |
| mgedmin | is that something that SDL knows about? | 13:21 |
| Jaffa | maddler: go back to the product page on direct.nokia.com and there's an "order tracking" at the top right | 13:21 |
| konttori | I'm pretty sure you can toggle it even in python. | 13:21 |
| X-Fade | maddler: http://direct.nokia.com/ordertracking.aspx | 13:21 |
| * dwd wonders about sending a proper, full-on, brag'n'beg email to the list. | 13:21 | |
| maddler | oh... thx... | 13:22 |
| maddler | good... | 13:23 |
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| * maddler wonders who the hell did those traslations... :| | 13:23 | |
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| maddler | translated back fro .it to english sounds like "to track and order, you want to enter order number and email address associated with the command" | 13:25 |
| maddler | DOH! | 13:25 |
| konttori | mgedmin: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/GameDevelopment | 13:27 |
| konttori | You can find more about pixel doubling there | 13:27 |
| Jaffa | dwd: you've nothing to lose | 13:28 |
| konttori | maddler: That's actually more like a literal translation from finnish. | 13:29 |
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| Veggen | wee. | 13:31 |
| Veggen | My Nokia 770 has returned from service, also. | 13:31 |
| Veggen | Hmm. Try to pick it up today, I wonder? | 13:31 |
| Veggen | nah, shop closes too early. | 13:31 |
| konttori | maddler: Might also help to move the HUD displays to outside the GFX area to a separate space and update them less frequently (and with no antialias / transparency) | 13:32 |
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| Veggen | (will have to wait till thursday when place is open until 6pm instead of 4) | 13:32 |
| Veggen | what fun can one do with two Internet tablets, I wonder... | 13:32 |
| c0ffee | most stuff is more fun with two | 13:36 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Except my dignity. :-) | 13:37 |
| inz | dwd, your what? | 13:38 |
| dwd | inz: Good point. | 13:38 |
| lardman | So what was the result of the earlier scratchbox compatibility questions? Presumably any libraries will have been compiled to use vfp in the new toolchain rather than softvfp, but as long as you do dynamic linking this shouldn't be a problem | 13:40 |
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| osfameron | my tablet appears to be draining battery faster than I expected :-( | 13:55 |
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| dwd | osfameron: There's a small hole on the bottom of the 770. Inserting the plug provided stops the battery from draining. Unfortunately, the plug requires power to operate. | 14:01 |
| dwd | osfameron: Seriously, what have you got on it, and what are you running? | 14:01 |
| osfameron | dwd: that's sneaky of them! I wants my money back! | 14:02 |
| user_ | batterytime sucks on the n8, more power same accu makes no sense for mee | 14:02 |
| osfameron | it's an n800 | 14:02 |
| osfameron | I charged it last night | 14:02 |
| osfameron | spent maybe 30 mins online | 14:02 |
| osfameron | and about 1hr using FBReader and the web browser offline | 14:02 |
| osfameron | and now, 12 hours later it's whining that it wants to be fed again | 14:02 |
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| Jaffa | Like a damn baby. | 14:03 |
| JussiP | The first charge is always less than later ones. (Or at least it was still so a couple of years ago.) | 14:03 |
| dwd | osfameron: When charging these things, the battery meter tends to lie, BTW. Charge them for *ages* the first few times you do it. | 14:03 |
| osfameron | aha. | 14:04 |
| osfameron | I probably should have fed it before using it except that | 14:04 |
| tigert | just keep it on charge every time you can for the beginning | 14:04 |
| osfameron | a) I was impatient | 14:04 |
| osfameron | b) it didn't say you had to on the box | 14:04 |
| tigert | we all are impatient with new toys | 14:04 |
| tigert | :) | 14:04 |
| tigert | and we never read docs anyway | 14:04 |
| osfameron | or anywhere in the pathetic excuse for a user guide | 14:04 |
| dwd | osfameron: It's something to do with the battery, not the device itself. Also, drain it all the way every now and then, and recharge it overnight. | 14:04 |
| osfameron | I remmeber phones always came with big warnings "CHARGE for 300 hours before using, or THERE WILL BE LOTS OF DOOM!!!!" | 14:05 |
| osfameron | and as it didn't, I didn't | 14:05 |
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| dwd | osfameron: It doesn't say so in the Nokia phones, either, but the same applies - a mobile phone shop will tell you. | 14:05 |
| osfameron | ah! I thought maybe battery technology had improved | 14:05 |
| osfameron | oh well | 14:05 |
| glass | it's not as important as it used to be | 14:06 |
| * dwd brags'n'begs on the list. | 14:08 | |
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| keesj | dwd, I hope at the end everybody will be happy | 14:09 |
| |tbb| | will there be a better accu available in near future 4 the n800 | 14:10 |
| dwd | keesj: Well, I have to admit, I wasn't at all surprised at not getting a code, and I wasn't all that bothered. But then I saw people getting codes for saying they planned to port stuff, and I have to admit to feeling slightly ignored. :-) | 14:11 |
| onion | ok.. found it on the wiki.. pretty sweet, a portable mod player :) | 14:12 |
| glass | tbb: unlikely(it's already lipo).. but you could always buy a spare | 14:13 |
| keesj | I understand but why has it got to be so open, pushing people out of there natural way of being. just accepting private mails with motivations would have helped. I am happy I got one and feel very honored. | 14:13 |
| keesj | I need to go shopping for bigger hard disks | 14:14 |
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| Jaffa | dwd suffers more than most for being British. Self aggrandising is an antithesis here :) | 14:14 |
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| dwd | Jaffa: Quite so, dear chap. | 14:16 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Just not the done thing. | 14:16 |
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| florian | hi all | 14:17 |
| |tbb| | hi flori, got ur code? | 14:18 |
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| Jaffa | dwd: tally ho, and whatnot. | 14:23 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Jolly good. Chin up, what? | 14:23 |
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| Jaffa | dwd: more tea? | 14:28 |
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| zuh | mgedmin: unfortunately it's not playable as-is | 14:33 |
| zuh | on the N800 | 14:34 |
| keesj | is there a real competitor to opera on small devices? | 14:35 |
| keesj | preferably open | 14:36 |
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| maddler | heya florian | 14:37 |
| florian | hi maddler | 14:37 |
| Jaffa | keesj: WebKit, perhaps? | 14:38 |
| dwd | keesj: The problem is Javascript and Flash. I quite like the look of NetSurf, otherwise. | 14:39 |
| keesj | I just tried download,compile from svn on gentoo , it did not look easy :) did i mention easy? | 14:39 |
| dwd | keesj: Feh. Who needs easy? If it was hard to write, it should be hard to build. | 14:40 |
| robtaylor | keesj: i think there's some debian packaging for gpe-minibrowser | 14:40 |
| robtaylor | ditto openembedded | 14:40 |
| keesj | robtaylor, from reading the maemo mailing list it looked outdated | 14:40 |
| keesj | do you have an url for this openembedded thing? | 14:41 |
| robtaylor | keesj: openembedded.org | 14:41 |
| keesj | Firefox can't find the server at www.openembedded.org. | 14:41 |
| keesj | perhaps I have been banned ;p | 14:42 |
| maddler | time for coffee... | 14:43 |
| keesj | robtaylor, does it work for you? | 14:43 |
| robtaylor | keesj: no, broken for me | 14:43 |
| robtaylor | looks like someone's made a dns oops | 14:43 |
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| * robtaylor goes asks | 14:43 | |
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| mgedmin | zuh: if you start pyspacewar with -d, you'll see a bunch of debugging info such as fps and milliseconds used by various phases of the game and drawing code | 14:44 |
| robtaylor | keesj: OE is an embedded build system, just so you know | 14:45 |
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| robtaylor | keesj: if you want minibrowser on your 770 - http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/projects/gpe-mini-browser.shtml | 14:45 |
| keesj | yes , and koen was on irc a few day's ago , but never found the site , I think it has been broken for a while | 14:45 |
| lardman | keesj: the site was working yesterday as I pulled from the repo there | 14:47 |
| keesj | lardman, thanks for the info , i will first look at gpe-mini-browser | 14:47 |
| robtaylor | dwd: for JS, webkit has good JS support. for flas, i'd be tempted to look at swfdec (http://swfdec.freedesktop.org/wiki/) | 14:53 |
| dwd | robtaylor: There's a few JS engines about. I suppose it depends on which an be integrated with the lightest HTML/CSS engine. | 14:55 |
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| robtaylor | dwd: well gtk webkit uses jscore | 14:57 |
| robtaylor | s/uses/has/ | 14:58 |
| dwd | robtaylor: Worth a look, then. | 14:58 |
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| robtaylor | dwd: indeed | 14:59 |
| dwd | robtaylor: swfdec I'm not so sure about - I used to run that for a while, and I found it was quite a resource hog. Maybe it's changed. | 14:59 |
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| maddler | damn... still "open" | 15:00 |
| robtaylor | dwd: its been completely redone recently | 15:01 |
| dwd | robtaylor: Ah, I'll give it another go. | 15:01 |
| robtaylor | dwd: Benjamin Otte has been working like a daemon on it. It can now run interactive flash 9, i hear | 15:01 |
| dwd | robtaylor: Oh, very cool. | 15:01 |
| dwd | robtaylor: I could finally look at the N800 site on this workstation, then. :-) | 15:01 |
| robtaylor | heh, yeah :) | 15:02 |
| keesj | so perhaps it is even better to look at the kde site to khtml? | 15:03 |
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| keesj | no, this is all very confusing . I will do some more research before I start asking stupid questions | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | Oregano is another embedded web browser, but not open. Used on PS2/3/PSP (some/all of those) IIRC | 15:05 |
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| mitcheloc | has anyone set up any embedded http servers on the n800? | 15:08 |
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| Veggen | hmm, btw - my LUG is gonna have a speaker from Opera software this thursday... | 15:10 |
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| Veggen | (although not web-browser-related topic, it's about "managing large software projects with free tools) | 15:11 |
| keesj | opera also have the server side technology in combo with a j2me midlet | 15:11 |
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| keesj | resizing images and putting them embeded in the document that kind of tricks | 15:12 |
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| Veggen | anything I should get an opera engineer drunk enough to answer? ;-) | 15:13 |
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| glass | opml support wouldn't be bad to have | 15:15 |
| glass | or whatever opera called their squashed html thing | 15:16 |
| glass | that they use with mini.. and some symbian versions optionally | 15:16 |
| Veggen | can one upgrade opera? | 15:17 |
| Veggen | (in theory, if someone made a newer version available) | 15:18 |
| Jaffa | Veggen: "someone"? | 15:18 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: Like, opera :-) | 15:18 |
| Jaffa | Veggen: yes, but we don't know much work Nokia did on the Maemoification, or whether they'd be able to under the terms of Nokia's licence. | 15:19 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: not open source, but I'm gonna have a talk by an some beers with one of operas Linux people on thursday. | 15:19 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: For our LUG. | 15:20 |
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| Jaffa | Veggen: Indeed, very cool. Services like the Opera Web Accelerator (ie. the caching/compressing proxy) would be more useful | 15:20 |
| Veggen | I'll probably ask him how much he knows about that and what he can tell :) | 15:20 |
| Veggen | hmm. | 15:21 |
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| Veggen | Jaffa: but, should opera be allowed to and interested in porting opera 9 to maemo, would it be possible to upgrade via package manager, or is reflashing only option? I do see that it's listed with dpkg -l, so presumably it's installed as packages. | 15:24 |
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| Jaffa | Veggen: there's no reason it couldn't be installed separately - at worst case, it'd just overwrite stuff | 15:33 |
| Veggen | hmm. I'll anyhow try and ask how much he knows about this stuff ;) | 15:34 |
| Veggen | (what's done, how much Opera does, and whether there are any new plans, etc) | 15:34 |
| Veggen | but probably we have Nokia people here that knows as much or more, though :) | 15:34 |
| maddler | opera is basically a preinstalled package... | 15:37 |
| maddler | I think is more a "commercial" problem... | 15:38 |
| Veggen | probably. | 15:38 |
| Veggen | opera for embedded is the space that opera is trying to make money on, so just releasing stuff for free, I guess, isn't easily decided :) | 15:39 |
| maddler | indeed... | 15:40 |
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| * Jaffa copies the last thing he'll ever watch to his 770 (I'll give it a swansong rather than use the Gmini on the train this evening): god, USB 1.1's painful. | 15:53 | |
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| Jaffa | It takes almost as long to copy it as it did to transcode it. | 15:53 |
| Veggen | 770 is still a good device. I should give it a good afterlife. | 15:54 |
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| Veggen | it just returned to the shop I handed it in for WSOD-repair today, so I'm gonna pick it up thursday, I think. | 15:58 |
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| maddler | Veggen: 770 is still a great device... simply N800 is greater! :D | 16:01 |
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| kkito | hello | 16:03 |
| kkito | do you know how to compile mplayer with xv support? | 16:03 |
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| kkito | because mplayer is really slow on n800 :_( the actual build use x11 to video output | 16:05 |
| kkito | and the special 770 vo does not run with the n800 | 16:05 |
| Jaffa | kkito: hopefully ssvb got a discount and will have ordered his N800 | 16:05 |
| kkito | Jaffa, well... then i must to wait for the next release.... | 16:07 |
| kkito | and canola hasnt got the source code avaliable ? | 16:08 |
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| Jaffa | kkito: nope | 16:08 |
| sxpert-work | boohoo, i didn't get an n800 code :( | 16:08 |
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| *** c0ffee changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | EU discount codes are out, US comes today, for 2nd wave apply to quim.gil@maemo.org" | 16:11 | |
| shapr | yay | 16:15 |
| shapr | Hey, is there any info on converting palm data to a maemo setup? | 16:15 |
| maddler | shapr: hmmm... ? | 16:16 |
| maddler | what do you mean... | 16:16 |
| shapr | A friend of mine bought an N800, and wants to dump all of his Palm data and import it into matching maemo apps. | 16:18 |
| pahartik | shapr: data from default PalmOS (calendar, notes, addressbook, todo) applications? | 16:18 |
| shapr | I haven't seen any sort of documentation for that.. maybe he and I should write it.... | 16:18 |
| shapr | pahartik: yup | 16:18 |
| Jaffa | shapr: I did do some playing with something similar years ago, when I briefly tried a Palm device before running back to Psions. | 16:18 |
| shapr | I think a TODO on the maemowiki would be nice. That's what my friend looked for initially. | 16:19 |
| * Jaffa has absolutely no recollection of it beyond that, unfortunately. | 16:19 | |
| pahartik | shapr: I have that problem too... maybe "GPE" will provide solution to that in future... | 16:19 |
| shapr | I hope so. | 16:20 |
| * mgedmin fears there may be no good solution for Palm -> Maemo migration | 16:20 | |
| shapr | mgedmin: Even a piece by piece solution would be some help. | 16:20 |
| kkito | cannot palm export the data to a vcard file or similar | 16:20 |
| kkito | ? | 16:20 |
| maddler | pdb->csv->maemo | 16:21 |
| maddler | at least for contacts... | 16:21 |
| c0ffee | dates can be exported to ical afaik | 16:22 |
| pahartik | maddler: which application for addressbook/contacts on Maemo? | 16:22 |
| shapr | gpe-contacts or the google talk enabled addressbook? | 16:22 |
| maddler | gpe-contacts | 16:22 |
| |tbb| | whats wrong if get following error: ': not a valid identifier: export: LD_LIBARY_PATH | 16:22 |
| kkito | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006#head-186134d17852cd85a67769dd08973b0c772fb29e | 16:22 |
| maddler | default addressbook won't allow to enter phone numbers... | 16:22 |
| shapr | If I could make gtalk calls from gpe-contacts I'd be a happier man. | 16:22 |
| maddler | on 770 at least... | 16:22 |
| shapr | maddler: For that exact reason | 16:23 |
| c0ffee | |tbb|, LD_LIBRARY_PATH not defined? | 16:23 |
| shapr | I've been adding extra email fields and putting the phone numbers there. | 16:23 |
| |tbb| | while try to start Xephyr | 16:23 |
| kkito | dejadesktop runs ok too, but it isn opensource | 16:23 |
| |tbb| | c0ffee i used the quickstart script from the m-wiki | 16:24 |
| |tbb| | just have edited the boxname | 16:25 |
| kkito | that pim runs in 770 too http://michaels770.blogspot.com/2006/03/screenshots-of-winzig-on-nokia.html | 16:25 |
| shapr | Hm, I should try that. | 16:28 |
| c0ffee | hum | 16:28 |
| shapr | I like the name too. | 16:28 |
| c0ffee | i followed the bora howto and that works | 16:28 |
| |tbb| | c0ffee, which one? | 16:29 |
| shapr | yeah, which howto? | 16:34 |
| mgedmin | interesting... a GPLed PIM suite written in Python | 16:34 |
| * mgedmin adds another item to his todo list | 16:35 | |
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| |tbb| | ithink i got the wrong rootstrap cause i dont got the Xepyr | 16:38 |
| Jaffa | |tbb|: Xephyr is outside the rootstrap | 16:39 |
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| shapr | Like everyone else here, I'd love to be in the N800 DevDeviceProgram... but will probably buy one months later if I am not. | 16:41 |
| ssvb | kkito: it is easy to build mplayer from svn, just checkout sources and run 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot', configure options are in 'debian/rules' | 16:42 |
| |tbb| | in the tut is written, it is pre-installed in the rootstrap | 16:42 |
| ssvb | Jaffa: I'll try to apply for the 2nd wave a bit later today :) | 16:42 |
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| elpaso | Hello | 16:43 |
| kkito | ssvb, thank you! :) | 16:43 |
| |tbb| | better i let it be if im not able to install the enviroment at all | 16:43 |
| X-Fade | Does anybody know why in Gizmo, I can call out via my own voip provider just fine, but incomming calls all end up in sipphone voicemail? | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | ssvb: fingers crossed | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | http://www.onlinestuffs.com/pictureupload/bild12/p8x1c7wtdy2ucgaduc3u.png looks like a cool UI for a game. | 16:43 |
| keesj | looks great! | 16:44 |
| kkito | ssvb, it will be possible in the future to use the IVA or powerVR to accelerate the video decoding? | 16:44 |
| keesj | I wanted to do something like that for xmoto | 16:44 |
| glass | looks nice(the bomberman ui), though.. multitouch wouldn't hurt as it's sometimes useful to drop bombs while walking | 16:46 |
| keesj | glass, that will work (in theory because the touches are averaged) | 16:47 |
| keesj | it depends on the coding but is possible | 16:47 |
| glass | hmmm | 16:47 |
| glass | i guess, but wouldn't it be hard to tell if it's bomb and right or bomb and up? | 16:48 |
| keesj | so middle center will be touching the two lower button | 16:48 |
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| kkito | i cannot install python for n800, dependency problems... what are the repos to add to install python directy in the app manager? | 16:48 |
| keesj | yes very | 16:48 |
| etrunko | kkito: http://repository.maemo.org bora free non-free | 16:50 |
| etrunko | and http://repository.maemo.org/extras bora free non-free | 16:50 |
| kkito | etrunko, thx :) | 16:50 |
| etrunko | kkito: np | 16:50 |
| Jaffa | Yay! N800 is in the building :-) | 16:53 |
| Jaffa | Unfortunately, it's not my N800... | 16:53 |
| Veggen | etrunky: hmm, I have: | 16:53 |
| maddler | Jaffa: damn!!! | 16:53 |
| Veggen | deb http://repository.maemo.org bora free | 16:53 |
| Veggen | #maemo:name Maemo | 16:53 |
| Veggen | deb http://repository.maemo.org bora non-free | 16:53 |
| Veggen | #maemo:name Maemo | 16:53 |
| Veggen | deb http://repository.maemo.org bora extras | 16:53 |
| maddler | still "open"! | 16:54 |
| Veggen | are those the same? Never get those sources.list-mappings correct :) | 16:54 |
| etrunko | Veggen: nop | 16:54 |
| etrunko | the last line is wrong | 16:54 |
| etrunko | should be deb http://repository.maemo.org/extrar bora free non-free | 16:55 |
| etrunko | should be deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras bora free non-free | 16:55 |
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| ssvb | kkito: support for IVA or powerVR depends on the availability of free docs for this hardware, I did not find any such information yet | 17:01 |
| kkito | ssvb, oh :_( | 17:04 |
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| mgedmin | hm, the touchscreen sensitivity of the 770 is not good enough for games, I think | 17:04 |
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| mgedmin | at least when you use your thumbs rather than fingernails | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | (tested in sketch) | 17:05 |
| osfameron | it's a bit jerky in sketch on n800 | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | maybe nokia will release a n800gage some time in the future with hardware 3d accel and gaming-oriented button configuration | 17:05 |
| kkito | ssvb, then we have an impressive Hardware for nothing.... | 17:06 |
| osfameron | reminds of my SE P800... that had a fun (smaller) sketch app, which was a bit buggy and jerky | 17:06 |
| ssvb | kkito: the fact that I did not find these docs does not mean they don't exist :) | 17:07 |
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| kkito | ssvb, ;) we can wait for nokia to release the free docs and some drivers .... | 17:08 |
| kkito | but i found that powervr are no longer to support 2.6 linux kernel, then an opensource from scratch driver must to be developed .... | 17:09 |
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| kkito | when my n800 goes to black screen after some time of inactivity it means that it is in stand by? | 17:10 |
| X-Fade | kkito: There is no real standby. | 17:11 |
| X-Fade | kkito: The device does micro sleeps all the time.. | 17:11 |
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| kkito | X-Fade, and to go to a real stand by? | 17:12 |
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| X-Fade | kkito: It doesn't need to. | 17:13 |
| Veggen | kkito: the closest is "lock touch-screen and keys", and wait until it's timed out. | 17:13 |
| kkito | ooh ok :) | 17:13 |
| X-Fade | Veggen: But it is still as awake as without a lock :) | 17:13 |
| Veggen | no. | 17:13 |
| Veggen | well, and yes. | 17:13 |
| Veggen | :) | 17:13 |
| Veggen | X-Fade: it doesn't use as much power, though? | 17:13 |
| X-Fade | It just ignores screeninput.. | 17:14 |
| X-Fade | *touch | 17:14 |
| Veggen | and screen is blanked permanently, until you press power button again. | 17:14 |
| |tbb| | does go offline mode brings less battery consme? | 17:14 |
| Veggen | tbb: logically, I'd guess so. | 17:15 |
| X-Fade | Yep, but it uses as much power in when idle as when locked and idle.. | 17:15 |
| kkito | And it is possible to know the current % of battery when n800 is charging? Or the time to complete charge.... | 17:15 |
| maddler | |tbb|: yess... wifi and BT are turned off... | 17:15 |
| X-Fade | kkito: just hit the battery icon? | 17:15 |
| kkito | X-Fade, in n800 it only says charging | 17:15 |
| kkito | no the time to finish or % charged | 17:15 |
| X-Fade | kkito: remove the charger ;) | 17:15 |
| kkito | X-Fade, lol :P | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | kkito: But the device gives only 6 stages of battery charge.. | 17:16 |
| |tbb| | btw this morning i was going to offline mode and every x seconds it.asked me if i would like to go in normalmodus | 17:16 |
| maddler | becaus he understands how bas is to be offline! :D | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | the audio player on my 770 pops up the connection dialog every few seconds if my playlist contains a name of a nonexistent file | 17:17 |
| maddler | you know... advanced AIs! ;) | 17:17 |
| |tbb| | hehe | 17:17 |
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| maddler | my wife pops up the phone every few minutes when I disappear! :D | 17:18 |
| |tbb| | lol | 17:18 |
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| Andy80 | does anyone of you use gpsdrive? | 17:18 |
| maddler | damn!!! change that damn "open" status!!! | 17:18 |
| wumpus | yeah they should really make this suspend to mem a menu option | 17:19 |
| X-Fade | maddler: pssst. I think they are out of stock ;) | 17:19 |
| kkito | Do you know about a good screen protector for the n800? | 17:19 |
| wumpus | good question really | 17:21 |
| |tbb| | it where nice if som1 find out which apps needed to be running so i can kill all others | 17:21 |
| lardman|lunch | hmm, have to move office, bye all | 17:24 |
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| maddler | X-Fade: I could kill! | 17:29 |
| keesj | did anybody install bomberman | 17:29 |
| |tbb| | yes | 17:30 |
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| keesj | my installer fails , it just shutsdown | 17:30 |
| keesj | it worked cli :p | 17:31 |
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| maddler | has any1 tried to link /bin/sh to bash instead of busybox? | 17:33 |
| Jaffa | maddler: apparently some of the /etc/init.d stuff broke causing a reboot loop | 17:34 |
| maddler | Jaffa: oh... ok... I remembered correctly then... | 17:34 |
| maddler | hmmm... | 17:34 |
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| maddler | ok... my 2x4GB SDs just arrived... | 17:35 |
| maddler | now only need a good device to put them in! | 17:35 |
| Jaffa | shiny | 17:35 |
| Jaffa | Did I read that 8GB SD(HC?) cards also work - perhaps with an updated kernel. | 17:36 |
| maddler | yup... was somewhere on planet last week | 17:36 |
| glass | cool | 17:36 |
| maddler | 2x4 is good enough... :) | 17:36 |
| glass | nah it isn't :) | 17:36 |
| tzz | I saw an 8GB SDHC card for $70 on fatwallet.com. If it works I'll buy it right now. | 17:36 |
| maddler | looks like I'm going to fire my mp3 player! :D | 17:36 |
| glass | 2x8gb would be enough for mp3 player replacement | 17:36 |
| Jaffa | glass: indeed. My Gmini's 20GB would go bye-bye. | 17:37 |
| nelson | Oh, great, *today* my mail server picks to be down. | 17:37 |
| maddler | I have a zen micro 4GB right now... :) | 17:37 |
| * Jaffa wonders whether to sell his 1GB RS-MMC with his 770 and get one of those 18ukp 4GB SD cards | 17:37 | |
| kjetilho | the URL to the DropBear DEB on http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot2 is outdated, can anyone edit it? | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | kjetilho: yes | 17:38 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: dunno... I'm going to keep mine... | 17:38 |
| maddler | since I'll keep my 770 as well... | 17:38 |
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| dwd | Jaffa: You're selling your 770 for 18 quid? | 17:39 |
| nomis | Now, Nokia has this impressive flash accessory selection thingie - AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ADD THE STUFF TO THE CART!!! | 17:41 |
| nomis | gah. | 17:41 |
| Jaffa | dwd: no ;-) | 17:41 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Good idea, hold out for 20. | 17:42 |
| mgedmin | flash is for games, not e-shopping | 17:43 |
| kjetilho | bummer, the download isn't progressing | 17:43 |
| kjetilho | duh, my "disk" was full :) | 17:45 |
| nomis | mgedmin: they even have a HTML equivalent without links to put stuff in the cart. | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | "we have all this wonderful stuff, and you know what's the best part? YOU CAN'T BUY IT!" | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | :) | 17:46 |
| nomis | http://europe.nokia.com/A4160261 <-- the first thing there is the N800 case. If anyone sees a way to put it in the cart, please tell me. | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | me too! | 17:47 |
| nomis | I should just call. | 17:47 |
| Andy80 | my 770 has just frozen. 'm trying to power off it but it doesn't work! Do I have to remove battery? | 17:48 |
| *** phil|sleep is now known as philipl | 17:48 | |
| mgedmin | Andy80: either wait for it to wake up (or reboot if it triggers the watchdog), or pull the battery | 17:49 |
| keesj | there is a html link http://europe.nokia.com/A4160261 | 17:49 |
| keesj | bugger ! | 17:49 |
| Andy80 | mgedmin: I was trying to use Maemo Mapper and it crashed while downloading 6456 mb of maps O_o I wasn't able to stop/cancel the request | 17:49 |
| nomis | keesj: yep. Nice and tidy, without these annoying "buy me" links. | 17:49 |
| kjetilho | the Application manager seems hosed. it says (no applications installed) although I've previously installed XTerm, etc., and they still work. any tips on debugging it? | 17:50 |
| maddler | nomis: I think is not available yet | 17:50 |
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| mgedmin | Andy80: the 770 becomes very nonresponsive when you try to write large amounts of data to flash memory | 17:50 |
| mgedmin | or when it starts swapping | 17:51 |
| nomis | maddler: well, then they should just make that clear on the page :-/ | 17:51 |
| maddler | ehhh... you know... marketing... | 17:51 |
| kjetilho | ah. I just removed the extra repositories, and it started working again. | 17:52 |
| maddler | it's the same wit N800 navkit... | 17:52 |
| nomis | maddler: (but even for regular stuff like the charger AC-4 they don't provide "buy me" links...) | 17:52 |
| maddler | nomis: the say is there... but no way to buy it yet :) | 17:52 |
| kjetilho | bah. "Unable to install dropbear" | 17:52 |
| maddler | dropbear or dropbear-client? | 17:53 |
| kjetilho | I hate error messages like that. tell me WHY, you stupid computer! | 17:53 |
| maddler | dropbear-client won't install using busybox as shell... | 17:53 |
| kjetilho | dropbear -- I'm want root access :) | 17:53 |
| maddler | kjetilho: on 770? | 17:54 |
| Andy80 | anyway this Maemo Mapper seems not to work... it says "Downloading maps...." | 17:54 |
| kjetilho | yes. I go via the builtin web browser, and click on DEB, and choose Open with Application manager | 17:54 |
| Andy80 | and I only can see a green circle on a black screen :) | 17:54 |
| Andy80 | it should download the google maps... | 17:54 |
| maddler | Andy80: double check URI | 17:54 |
| dwd | Andy80: Perhaps it's night? | 17:54 |
| maddler | dwd: LOL! | 17:55 |
| maddler | Andy80: you should have 2.something somewhere... make it 2.39 | 17:55 |
| maddler | kjetilho: does it give you some error? | 17:55 |
| maddler | or just refuses to work? | 17:55 |
| kjetilho | just the message "Unable to install dropbear" | 17:55 |
| maddler | no "details" button? | 17:56 |
| kjetilho | I have to achknowledge this is unsigned by Nokia first | 17:56 |
| maddler | that's ok... | 17:56 |
| kjetilho | hmm, how can I check that I have enough "device memory"? | 17:56 |
| maddler | control panel | 17:57 |
| Andy80 | maddler: I'm using the second one: http://mt.google.com/mt?n=404&v=ap.6&x=%d&y=%d&zoom=%d | 17:57 |
| Andy80 | maddler: maybe do I have to use the other one? | 17:57 |
| maddler | lemme check mine... | 17:57 |
| kjetilho | maddler: thanks. 37 MB should be enough... | 17:58 |
| maddler | http://mt.google.com/mt?n=404&v=w2.39&x=%d&y=%d&zoom=%d | 17:58 |
| Andy80 | ok I try wait | 17:59 |
| maddler | yup... that's not memory problem... | 17:59 |
| maddler | try to save it first... | 17:59 |
| maddler | and then open from application manager | 17:59 |
| |tbb| | andy which devivce du u own | 18:00 |
| kjetilho | maddler: same problem | 18:00 |
| spaetz | ohh, google is at v=2.39 already? | 18:00 |
| spaetz | Must upgrade my URL | 18:00 |
| kjetilho | perhaps the new release can't run on the 770? | 18:00 |
| maddler | never undesthood what that number is for... | 18:00 |
| |tbb| | err, i mean kjetilho | 18:00 |
| Andy80 | maddler: yes, I see a world map now. The green point is on Italy (the location I was trying to search for) but... how can I zoom it? | 18:00 |
| spaetz | It's a version of their maps. | 18:01 |
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| maddler | andy use zoom button... | 18:01 |
| kjetilho | |tbb|: ah, yes, the 770 | 18:01 |
| maddler | spaetz: so they change it time to time? | 18:01 |
| spaetz | maddler: yes definitely. It usually works a while with the old version | 18:01 |
| spaetz | but at some point they stop working | 18:01 |
| maddler | ok... good to know... | 18:02 |
| spaetz | They increase it from time to time, not too often though | 18:02 |
| Andy80 | maddler: I'm zooming :) | 18:03 |
| maddler | good... | 18:03 |
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| Andy80 | maddler: I've a GPS receiver too. Maemo Mapper can see it but I cannot use now, I'm inside my home and there's no gps signal inside | 18:05 |
| maddler | well... hope you don't need GPS to find bathroom! :DDD | 18:06 |
| Andy80 | maddler: enabling it I see my location on the map travelling around? | 18:06 |
| Andy80 | ehehe no ;) | 18:06 |
| maddler | yup... | 18:06 |
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| maddler | spaetz: v=2.50 is working too... | 18:09 |
| maddler | as well as 2.70 | 18:10 |
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| maddler | max is v=2.99 | 18:15 |
| Andy80 | what are the differences? | 18:15 |
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| kjetilho | grr, I want root access to enable NFS and stuff. | 18:16 |
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| maddler | Andy80: dunno... :) | 18:16 |
| maddler | maybe more details... | 18:16 |
| kjetilho | oh well. is there a graphical SCP client or something? | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | suggestion for the application installer: in the "unable to install" dialog add a button "details" and make it show the same log file that is available from the menu | 18:16 |
| maddler | kjetilho: I just reinstalled dropbear on my 770 | 18:16 |
| kjetilho | maddler: thanks for the effort | 18:17 |
| maddler | kjetilho: no problem... | 18:17 |
| maddler | have you installed xterm already? | 18:18 |
| kjetilho | mgedmin: aha, the log file! I missed that | 18:18 |
| kjetilho | "trying to overwrite /usr/bin/scp which is also in package ssh | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | it's very inconspicuous | 18:18 |
| * kjetilho kisses mgedmin | 18:18 | |
| maddler | hehehe... | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | dropbear should say it conflicts with openssh | 18:19 |
| maddler | mgedmin: I'll keep it in mind for the next release... | 18:19 |
| maddler | damn... on tracking page I see delivery address is messed up! | 18:20 |
| maddler | do I have to start concerning?! | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | maddler: erk, mine's now messed up too | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | It was fine earlier | 18:21 |
| maddler | yup! | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | Same for billing address | 18:21 |
| maddler | yep! | 18:21 |
| maddler | do WE have start concerning? | 18:22 |
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| one_red_eye | anybody home? | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | yup | 18:22 |
| kjetilho | Nokia770-39:~# | 18:22 |
| one_red_eye | is there a way to reset the lock code on the 770? | 18:22 |
| * kjetilho grins evilly | 18:22 | |
| one_red_eye | lol | 18:22 |
| maddler | one_red_eye: no... we are all out... | 18:22 |
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| maddler | one_red_eye: nope AFAIK | 18:23 |
| maddler | it survives reflashing if I recall correctly... | 18:23 |
| one_red_eye | yea | 18:23 |
| one_red_eye | i noticed | 18:23 |
| Sonej | I saw a video from the Vegas when they announced the N800. And they had a TV-out from the N800 (with i think was a USB cable to a TV), is that possible with the N800? | 18:23 |
| Jaffa | Sonej: they were using the VNC server | 18:23 |
| X-Fade | one_red_eye: It didn't survive flashing with some of the earlier 2005 images. | 18:23 |
| bergie | crappy piece of software that Nokia webstore | 18:23 |
| Jaffa | Sonej: So no good for video, but good for presentations etc. | 18:23 |
| maddler | Sonej: I think thatw was something like remote desktop... | 18:23 |
| Sonej | ah okej, thnx Jaffa | 18:23 |
| one_red_eye | X-Fade, i tried all the images on the maemo site, none fixed it | 18:24 |
| Jaffa | maddler: hopefully they'll get close with my postcode and then ring the phone number (assuming someone's in) | 18:24 |
| X-Fade | one_red_eye: I guess you would have to visit your local Nokia Service Center. | 18:25 |
| maddler | but invoice address is messed up... so it won't match CC address! | 18:25 |
| maddler | btw... still no status change... | 18:26 |
| Sonej | Thinking of buying a N800, still considering.. Do you guys think Nokia will release another unit soon? | 18:26 |
| X-Fade | maddler: Mine is still open too. | 18:26 |
| spaetz | Sonej, it will release the moment you order an N800, otherwise there will be now no devices, ever | 18:27 |
| mgedmin | no, I don't tink we can expect a N900 any time soon | 18:27 |
| Jaffa | Confirmation email says "orders after 3pm should be despatched the next working day". i.e. it should change to "shipped" today. | 18:27 |
| X-Fade | Sonej: 770 -> 800 took about 1.5 year. | 18:27 |
| maddler | Sonej: not tomorrow for sure... | 18:27 |
| spaetz | ...will be no new devices, ever.... | 18:27 |
| Sonej | true | 18:27 |
| maddler | Jaffa: I know... YOU know that... but... DO THEY KNOW?! | 18:28 |
| maddler | :D | 18:28 |
| nelson | I remember the HP-41C. Backwards-compatible for ten years. | 18:28 |
| maddler | Sonej: order that N800 now! :D | 18:28 |
| * kjetilho got his 770 just three weeks ago :-) | 18:28 | |
| Sonej | They are cheaper in US then Sweden :/ | 18:28 |
| Jaffa | maddler: :) | 18:28 |
| Sonej | And i want the US gui too... | 18:28 |
| maddler | Sonej: that's because of VAT | 18:29 |
| * bhima feels guilty for having not done enough development on his developer 770. | 18:29 | |
| maddler | Sonej: what's the difference in the gui? | 18:29 |
| maddler | bhima: you are not late yet! :D | 18:29 |
| Sonej | All the menus in swedish i guess? | 18:29 |
| Andy80 | kjetilho: I got mine 1 week ago ;) | 18:29 |
| Sonej | Think i will ask my siss to buy one and ship it to me | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | Sonej: the s/w and h/w are identical in all markets. Only the charger differs AFAIK | 18:31 |
| BULLE | Sonej: if your sister is good looking, you can ship her to me please | 18:32 |
| Sonej | heh | 18:32 |
| Sonej | AFAIK? | 18:32 |
| BULLE | dwd: As Far As I Know | 18:32 |
| BULLE | s/dwd/Sonej/ | 18:33 |
| BULLE | Sonej: its 399usd vs 399euro , right ? | 18:33 |
| Sonej | ok | 18:33 |
| Sonej | yepp | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | for a sister? | 18:34 |
| BULLE | Sonej: what about warranty, do nokia have world wide warranty ? | 18:34 |
| BULLE | mgedmin: haha | 18:34 |
| BULLE | mgedmin: you get sister for free, buy one get two! | 18:34 |
| Sonej | BULLE: true, dunno about that.. | 18:34 |
| Sonej | So if i buy one what is the first thing to do? Do i need to flash it or whats going on? | 18:35 |
| Jaffa | maddler: I've emailed the customer services email address. I doubt I'll get a reply, though. | 18:36 |
| Jaffa | Sonej: depends if it comes with the most recent OS. | 18:36 |
| maddler | Jaffa: I wrote them about my CC right after placing the order... but no answer... | 18:37 |
| maddler | btw... sounds like a general failure... I think they'll fix it... | 18:37 |
| maddler | well... I HOPE! | 18:37 |
| Sonej | k, i want the 07 one? And when i have installd apps, where do i access them later, console? Or do they popup in the menu? | 18:38 |
| maddler | Jaffa: maybe we refreshed the paged TOO often... | 18:39 |
| maddler | and crashed the DB! | 18:39 |
| maddler | hahahaha | 18:39 |
| Jaffa | maddler: I did think that ;-) | 18:39 |
| Jaffa | Sonej: GUI apps show up in the menu, console apps need to be accessed through Xterm | 18:40 |
| Sonej | Xterm comes with it? | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | No, it's in the application catalogue | 18:40 |
| dwd | Sonej: xterm's a GUI app you can install. | 18:40 |
| Sonej | k | 18:40 |
| zuh | Yay, my N800 shipped | 18:41 |
| kjetilho | does BusyBox have any .rc-files which the builtin ash reads? | 18:42 |
| Jaffa | zuh: when did you order it? | 18:43 |
| Jaffa | Oooh, mine too. | 18:43 |
| jpetersen | nice translation in the nokia shop "Status: öffnen" ("Status: to open") | 18:43 |
| Jaffa | In the last 5 minutes (since I last refreshed) | 18:43 |
| c0ffee | kjetilho, yes, there's an howto in the wiki | 18:43 |
| spaetz | zuh, how long did it time from order time until you got a tracking | 18:44 |
| spaetz | number | 18:44 |
| Jaffa | Now, the question is if it shipped to the right, or corrupted address. | 18:44 |
| Jaffa | spaetz: I ordered 18 hours ago and just got "shipped". But presumably they didn't do much processing overnight. Tracking number isn't yet valid on UPS' site, so I can't tell if it's going to the right place or not... | 18:45 |
| spaetz | Jaffa: thx | 18:45 |
| kjetilho | c0ffee: sorry, I can't find it :/ | 18:46 |
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| zyxulnaga | hello | 18:48 |
| zyxulnaga | any nokia800 developers here? | 18:48 |
| kjetilho | the weird thing is that sudo su will run .bashrc (or possibly .profile) | 18:48 |
| zyxulnaga | the python2.5 environment you distribute with has a bug in urllib you may want to upgrade it | 18:48 |
| zyxulnaga | http://mail.python.org/pipermail/patches/2006-December/021247.html | 18:49 |
| zyxulnaga | it doesnt handle properly exceptions | 18:49 |
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| c0ffee | hum, it used to be there | 18:50 |
| tko | zyxulnaga, would you mind reporting it to bugzilla? I don't know if the maintainers are listening | 18:50 |
| maddlah | damn... power failure... | 18:50 |
| zyxulnaga | ok url? | 18:50 |
| maddlah | Jaffa: SHIPPED!!! | 18:50 |
| c0ffee | kjetilho, the .profile is only read on boot | 18:50 |
| c0ffee | kjetilho, but you can add some setting so a user defined file will be read on every ash start | 18:50 |
| zyxulnaga | basically the python-environment package needs to be updated | 18:51 |
| bhima | So, I know that the battery stuff is not open-sourced. Is it possible to build a complete kernel and add in the closed source stuff as a binary blob? | 18:51 |
| tko | zyxulnaga, https://maemo.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=sdk | 18:51 |
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| zyxulnaga | if you guys included the .py files its just 1 line patch | 18:51 |
| zyxulnaga | tko: thx | 18:51 |
| tko | zyxulnaga, no, wait | 18:52 |
| tko | zyxulnaga, https://maemo.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=haf&component=python | 18:52 |
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| aCiDBaSe | tko, zyxulnaga: please, fill a bug report on pymaemo.garage.maemo.org? We will release a bugfix version today... | 18:53 |
| zyxulnaga | ok which one of the two? | 18:53 |
| zyxulnaga | the one tko gave me or yours? | 18:53 |
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| tko | urgh.. so much for centralized bug tracker | 18:53 |
| Sonej | Does Opera 8.5 support tabs? Or is there a way to load 3-4 pages and "alt+tab" them? | 18:53 |
| bhima | ie: how much can I actually do without Nokia? | 18:53 |
| zyxulnaga | I 'll fill in both | 18:53 |
| dwd | Sonej: Multiple windows and things, at least on the 770. | 18:54 |
| Sonej | i see | 18:54 |
| bhima | Oh, also, I have an app idea, if it hasn't been done: Opera Crash Assistant. Tracks the open windows and history of Opera. | 18:54 |
| aCiDBaSe | tko: we've moved to garage now... it's easier to maintain a package in garage than in the SDK... | 18:54 |
| dwd | bhima: AFAIK, you can build custom kernels for Maemo devices, yes. Otherwise Nokia would be in breach of the GPL. | 18:54 |
| bhima | When Opera dies, it pops up and shows you the history stuff. Lets you choose whether to reload all of Opera's windows, or, say, load them each one by one, figure out which one died, and go back in history. | 18:55 |
| bhima | (useful if you use google to find info, and reach sites that crash...) | 18:55 |
| zyxulnaga | I filled it in the first one | 18:56 |
| tko | aCiDBaSe, but it makes pointing people to right place a bit more difficult (could be fixed by an index page covering all components included in the sdk, though) | 18:56 |
| zyxulnaga | going to fill it in pymamo now | 18:56 |
| zyxulnaga | its just 1 line really | 18:56 |
| zyxulnaga | i have the bug fix | 18:56 |
| bhima | (I find that Opera crashes too often on my 770, which makes googling quite irritating) | 18:57 |
| Jaffa | maddler: yeah, but to where?! | 18:58 |
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| konfoo- | bhima that would be a handy app | 18:59 |
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| Tak | morning maemers | 19:01 |
| Jaffa | Anyone with a newly shipped device been able to track it yet? | 19:04 |
| Jaffa | That's the new reload fun. | 19:04 |
| bhima | Is Opera on the N800 less crashy? | 19:05 |
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| tigert | i havent had much browser crashing on the 770 even | 19:06 |
| maddler | Jaffa: beside being somehow messed up the address is complete... | 19:06 |
| tigert | i guess it depends on the usage | 19:06 |
| zyxulnaga | https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=270&group_id=40&atid=229 | 19:06 |
| Tak | ditto @ tigert | 19:06 |
| zyxulnaga | aCiDBaSe: posted | 19:06 |
| bhima | Sites that work well on my 770 always seem to work well. | 19:07 |
| zyxulnaga | if you want the patch let me know | 19:07 |
| maddler | Jaffa: I'm waiting for UPS tracking to update to check... | 19:07 |
| aCiDBaSe | zyxulnaga: thanks... | 19:07 |
| zyxulnaga | no prb | 19:07 |
| Tak | I've had device reboots because of unsuspectingly browsing to sites with huge flash content, but very few opera crashes | 19:07 |
| maddler | flash is EVIL! | 19:08 |
| Tak | no argument here | 19:08 |
| maddler | hehe | 19:08 |
| dwd | maddler: No, Ming was the evil one. Flash was good, if a little naïve. | 19:08 |
| bhima | I may argue semantics... | 19:08 |
| maddler | flash is for marketing people... | 19:08 |
| Tak | one of them pissed me off, because it was a "free wifi" passthrough page | 19:08 |
| bhima | Flash can be used for nice things. | 19:09 |
| maddler | dwd: hahaha | 19:09 |
| keesj | flash programming with mtasc is actually quite funny | 19:09 |
| * dwd notes there was an open-source flash clone called Ming, once. | 19:09 | |
| maddler | yup... the point is 99% flash is used just to kill bandwidth... | 19:09 |
| keesj | I haven't tried the freemind flash on the n770 yet | 19:09 |
| suihkulokki | does anyone have flash files that chrash browser/device reliably? | 19:10 |
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| mgedmin | "But maemo.org/bugzilla is starting to feel like a black hole." -- seen on the list | 19:12 |
| mgedmin | *starting to*??? | 19:12 |
| * mgedmin should not poke fun, but /me cannot resist | 19:12 | |
| Tak | very nice | 19:13 |
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| tko | MDK, I think that's for you :-P | 19:13 |
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| Tak | hmm - is klaus rotter in-channel? | 19:15 |
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| bhima | Looks like a second RS-MMC card has gone *poof* | 19:17 |
| bhima | I've never even used it for swap or anything marginally bad. | 19:26 |
| wumpus | they just go *poof* like that? or does it have corruption | 19:27 |
| maddler | has anyone tested ekiga on n800? | 19:28 |
| maddler | :) | 19:28 |
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| bhima | it sometimes works fine for a bit. | 19:29 |
| Jaffa | maddler: http://n770.herraiz.org/archives/27 talks about 770 | 19:29 |
| bhima | and then it freezes or dies in some way. | 19:29 |
| bhima | freezes on my desktop. | 19:29 |
| maddler | yup... saw that already... | 19:30 |
| maddler | I'll have to give it a try... | 19:30 |
| maddler | I need a SIP client... | 19:30 |
| maddler | hmmm... is it possible to use gizmo as a SIP client? | 19:31 |
| maddler | I need a SIP client since nor gizmo neither skype are selling .it phone numbers... | 19:31 |
| mgedmin | gizmo uses SIP, I think | 19:33 |
| bhima | I don't see myself using VoIP on the 770 without an external headset. | 19:34 |
| bhima | Does the N800 let you plug an external mic in? | 19:34 |
| Jaffa | bhima: I believe so | 19:34 |
| Tak | apparently sip is new in gizmo 2.0 ? | 19:35 |
| bhima | Damn. I don't want an excuse to buy an N800. | 19:35 |
| bhima | The Neo1973 and iPhone are on my list. | 19:35 |
| maddler | mgedmin: yup...but AFAIK it won't allow you to specify a server <> from gizmo... | 19:35 |
| |tbb| | icant use gizmo anymore,n800 related | 19:36 |
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| tigert | bhima, the headphone plug is the three-contact 3.5mm plug. one connector is mic. | 19:37 |
| |tbb| | it works well on my n770 before | 19:37 |
| tigert | and it comes with a headset. | 19:37 |
| bhima | tigert: ooh, nifty. Glad they did that. | 19:37 |
| tigert | much like a cellphone set, a mic on the cord that dangles around your throat level. works pretty sweet. | 19:38 |
| |tbb| | but now if i dial a number like +497141298... it say that the number isnt known :/ | 19:38 |
| tigert | and those standard earbud phones. not awesome. but pretty fine. | 19:38 |
| bhima | My E70 has VoIP support, but it doesn't work via IP masqeraded systems. | 19:39 |
| tigert | very nice for voip in the bus etc public place | 19:39 |
| * bhima contemplates something evil... | 19:39 | |
| |tbb| | the curios thing about this is that i use the number from the called history | 19:39 |
| tigert | yes. telepathy triess to work around some NAT stuff | 19:39 |
| bhima | The E70 doesn't support STUN. | 19:39 |
| maddler | Jaffa: you know what? I think the order of the field shown in the tracking page is the order in which they need to be printed on UPS forms... | 19:40 |
| |tbb| | any idea whats wrong, anyone using gizmo? | 19:40 |
| bhima | And, its UI doesn't make it work nicely for random wifi connectivity. | 19:40 |
| tigert | but its also that telcos also are known to block voip in order to make people use voice instead of data calls | 19:40 |
| maddler | ttb... dunno... but right now I'm unable to place a call... | 19:40 |
| Andy80 | maddler: I use Gizmo 2 too. And.. yes.. missing .it numbers :( (I'm italian too!) | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | maddler: mine's lost the street name and house number - but I believe you could be right. It makes sense it'd change with the shipping (well, if it makes sense for it to change at all) | 19:40 |
| maddler | oh... Andy80.... nice to know! | 19:41 |
| maddler | where from? | 19:41 |
| Andy80 | maddler: Tuscany | 19:41 |
| maddler | Jaffa: hehehe... you know... engineers... :D | 19:41 |
| maddler | Jaffa: sounds _STRANGE_ but... that's the ONLY reason I see for such a change... | 19:41 |
| maddler | it makes NO sens at all... | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | maddler: yeah, my job title may now be "consultant" ("senior consultant", even) but Nokia still consider me a developer :-) | 19:41 |
| |tbb| | im from germany, so it might be a eurpan problem | 19:41 |
| maddler | but... | 19:41 |
| maddler | Andy80: drop me a line if you'll be in rome then... | 19:42 |
| maddler | hahaha... senior security consultant here :D | 19:42 |
| tko | Jaffa, just return the device and we can fix that... :) | 19:42 |
| maddler | tbb... maybe... | 19:42 |
| Andy80 | maddler: very difficoult... I study in Florence and I never travel :\ | 19:43 |
| * bhima 's title is Chief Information Officer. | 19:43 | |
| maddler | Andy80: good boy! :D | 19:43 |
| kjetilho | anyone know if you can get the NaviCore software without the GPS device? I already have one which I bought for use with my E61 ... | 19:43 |
| maddler | bhima... something like a police informant? :DDDDDDD | 19:43 |
| maddler | kjetilho: not afaik | 19:43 |
| Juhaz | kjetilho, yep | 19:43 |
| bhima | maddler: I"m ordering a t-shirt that says "Network Security" | 19:43 |
| maddler | from TG? ;) | 19:44 |
| bhima | It has a vaguely shield-like emblem on the front. | 19:44 |
| Andy80 | maddler: Thanks for "boy" but I'm 27 on may :D ... just restarted university after some years spent working. | 19:44 |
| Andy80 | kjetilho: same question I did on ML... | 19:44 |
| maddler | Andy80: that's me -10 anyway :D | 19:44 |
| |tbb| | maddler, i was hoping not , what makes me wonder is that the plus disappear while clling | 19:44 |
| kjetilho | Andy80: what was the response? | 19:44 |
| Juhaz | https://shop.navicoretech.com/productgroup_show.php?productid=55&catid=11 | 19:45 |
| maddler | Juhaz: can you buy only the software? | 19:45 |
| bhima | maddler: yup. I actually am network security. :) | 19:45 |
| Andy80 | kjetilho: they think it could cost around 180$ so, no reason to get only the software | 19:45 |
| Jaffa | tko: It's alright, if you looked at what I actually *do*, I'm still a dev ;-) | 19:45 |
| maddler | Juhaz: good! | 19:45 |
| kjetilho | Juhaz: thanks! hehe, I save 10 EUR that way ... | 19:45 |
| Andy80 | kjetilho: anyway... that kit is not so famous at the moment... | 19:45 |
| maddler | bhima :) | 19:45 |
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| |tbb| | anyone have a number from the states so idont have 2 dial the number with + | 19:46 |
| kjetilho | I'm a bit worried about the software on DVD, though, does such software typically require a Windows PC for install? | 19:46 |
| bhima | I've seen references to a GPS API for IT2007. I don't see that in the maemo 3.0 API docs. DO you know if it's documented? | 19:46 |
| maddler | kjetilho: I think you need to copy something on the MMC... | 19:47 |
| tko | Jaffa, ah, so it's only about the number of digits in the paycheck.. right :) | 19:47 |
| maddler | but asking to help desk could be better... | 19:47 |
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| Juhaz | 10 eur? for that little difference, I'd just take the hardware too, it can't hurt :) | 19:48 |
| * bhima wonders if he can make his E70 do IP over bluetooth as a client, with the 770 doing VPN stuff, letting me do VoIP properly on the E70... | 19:49 | |
| kjetilho | Juhaz: 165 for the kit, 149 for just the software | 19:50 |
| Andy80 | kjetilho: I hope they don't behave like TomTom! With 6.x version, it only works with 3 nokia phones and I've a nokia 6600!! damn them!! :( | 19:51 |
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| maddler | tko: kjetilho 770 navkit with GPS is priced 199 | 19:52 |
| maddler | it's 50E | 19:52 |
| Juhaz | well, the navkit has the car charger, holder and memory card too | 19:54 |
| kjetilho | maddler: not this package. it contains a LD-3W _and_ a 1GB card! | 19:55 |
| kjetilho | http://direct.nokia.com/Product.aspx?model=navkit | 19:55 |
| Jaffa | tko: more like how much we can charge our clients ;-) | 19:56 |
| maddler | kjetilho: link? | 19:56 |
| maddler | oh... | 19:56 |
| c0ffee | the second it says 'for 770 and 800' i'll order the navkit :/ | 19:57 |
| maddler | kjetilho: yes... but it keeps saying 199E | 19:57 |
| c0ffee | but not a minute earlier | 19:57 |
| kjetilho | maddler: strange. I've probably set a cookie that I'm in Norway, but we don't usually get _lower_ prices than others ... | 19:57 |
| c0ffee | it's probably better to distribute costs for electronic toys over some months | 19:57 |
| c0ffee | otherwise Mrs. c0ffee might get pissed :) | 19:58 |
| kjetilho | of course I have to add 25% sales tax at the border | 19:58 |
| maddler | c0ffee: _same_ here... | 19:58 |
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| sxpert | LOL http://blogeek.ch/index.php?2007/01/17/1370-la-maitrise-du-creneau | 19:58 |
| tigert | heh, this toolbar in osso-xterm is schweet. got to love pageup and -down... | 19:58 |
| maddler | if I didn't get the invitation I had to wait at least until next month... | 19:58 |
| Juhaz | screw pageup and down, I can't believe we lived without ctrl | 19:58 |
| kjetilho | you have an xterm with control??? | 19:59 |
| kjetilho | (without waiting 2 seconds for the popup menu) | 19:59 |
| tigert | yes. for n800 from maemo-hackers | 20:00 |
| kjetilho | *bummer* | 20:00 |
| Juhaz | 770 too | 20:00 |
| tigert | oh, nice. so he compiled it for both. sweet. | 20:00 |
| maddler | sxpert: hahahaha... sad to say.... but yes... that "lady" is from Rome... hehehehe | 20:01 |
| maddler | at least judging from her accent... | 20:01 |
| sxpert | you can hear *her* accent ? | 20:02 |
| tigert | http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/OssoXtermHacking | 20:02 |
| tigert | damn, i need to link to that page! duh. | 20:02 |
| tigert | but inz implemented that. | 20:03 |
| kjetilho | heh, I want easy access to C-a p and C-a n, too (actually C-o in my case) | 20:04 |
| maddler | sxpert: yep... | 20:04 |
| tigert | c-ap is there. see the mockup. | 20:04 |
| kjetilho | yes, but can you configure it? | 20:04 |
| Jaffa | tigert: that's been implemented? cool. | 20:04 |
| Andy80 | maddler: ahaha :D | 20:04 |
| tigert | also afaik its in gconf - label > keystroke pairs | 20:04 |
| tigert | so you can customize it i think. | 20:05 |
| maddler | Andy80: a few days ago there was a girl here with a Smart | 20:05 |
| tigert | jaffa, yes, update your xterm | 20:05 |
| maddler | she was trying to park... | 20:05 |
| maddler | she took about 20 minutes... | 20:05 |
| sxpert | hmmm... | 20:05 |
| sxpert | LOL | 20:05 |
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| maddler | and still fighting with it! | 20:05 |
| sxpert | how come, that thing has to be the easiest car to park yet | 20:06 |
| sxpert | (unless you're trying to use a motorcycle sized spot :D | 20:06 |
| maddler | :DDDDDDD | 20:06 |
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| maddler | hehehe... well... looks like no1 told HER! | 20:06 |
| maddler | there was enough place for a van | 20:06 |
| sxpert | haha | 20:06 |
| maddler | place=space | 20:06 |
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| tigert | jaffa, doesnt look as fancy with gradient etc, but it works. | 20:06 |
| sxpert | maddler, she could have parked opposite to the direction of the other vehicles :D | 20:07 |
| Jaffa | tigert: I saw an update earlier, but my 770 needs a reflash as there are half-installed bits of crap... and my N800's on its way | 20:07 |
| sxpert | like, perpendicularly to the sidewalk :D | 20:07 |
| tigert | jaffa,ok | 20:08 |
| maddler | sxpert: well that's actually how she found herself... :D | 20:08 |
| maddler | time to go home... | 20:08 |
| sxpert | haha | 20:08 |
| maddler | see you later folks... | 20:08 |
| maddler | need to start building packages for n800!!! ;) | 20:09 |
| maddler | any request? | 20:09 |
| maddler | lol! | 20:09 |
| Jaffa | cya | 20:09 |
| Jaffa | maddler: you need to start moving your ports over to mud ;-) | 20:09 |
| sxpert | maddler, can you send me one ? | 20:09 |
| maddler | hehe... | 20:09 |
| maddler | sxpert... n800? | 20:10 |
| maddler | sxpert: sure... as well as you can send me 400E :D | 20:10 |
| sxpert | yeah :D | 20:10 |
| sxpert | hahaha | 20:10 |
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| dballester | hi to all | 20:10 |
| Andy80 | maddler: do you develop apps for n800? | 20:10 |
| maddler | I'm SO happy I won't have to sell my 770! | 20:10 |
| maddler | Andy80: mainly involved in porting some... | 20:10 |
| maddler | I would also start an italian lang wiki/blog about internet tablets... | 20:11 |
| Andy80 | maddler: porting from gtk/c to hildon/c ? | 20:11 |
| maddler | oh... has anyone seen piega` lately? | 20:11 |
| maddler | I'm a command line geek... | 20:11 |
| Andy80 | maddler: cool :) | 20:12 |
| Andy80 | maddler: you do it for hobby or as main job? | 20:12 |
| maddler | both... | 20:12 |
| maddler | it happens that tools I need for my job are mainly command line tools... | 20:12 |
| maddler | hand being able to have the ready to work on my IT is kinda useful... | 20:13 |
| Andy80 | :) | 20:13 |
| Andy80 | maddler: but... are you a developer or a sysadmin, security admin... ecc...? | 20:13 |
| maddler | ok... TTL... or my wife will start broadcasting ARP requests! ;) | 20:13 |
| Andy80 | ahahaha :D | 20:14 |
| maddler | sysadmin and security consultant mainly... | 20:14 |
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| Andy80 | ok, see ya next time :) | 20:14 |
| jose | hi | 20:15 |
| maddler | godot! that will be my N800 name! | 20:15 |
| maddler | gh | 20:15 |
| Jaffa | :) | 20:15 |
| maddler | bye | 20:15 |
| sxpert | maddler, because you've been waiting for it for a while ? | 20:15 |
| jose | do you know if it is possible to use the gps from a n95 in the n800? | 20:15 |
| jose | throught the buetooth | 20:16 |
| sxpert | no idea | 20:16 |
| sxpert | you could write a gpsd server to run on the n95 | 20:16 |
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| jose | ok | 20:18 |
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| tigert | we need something on the tablet that uses geoclue | 20:18 |
| tigert | the n800 has gpsd in there | 20:19 |
| tigert | and eoclue could use it as well. | 20:19 |
| tigert | geoclue even | 20:19 |
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| tigert | maemoblog, and a nice mobile webcam with georss would be sweet too | 20:19 |
| kjetilho | tigert: hmm, but now I get only 76 columns. | 20:20 |
| tigert | so you could get a daily image with coordinates etc | 20:20 |
| tigert | kjet, smaller font then. | 20:20 |
| tigert | a toolbar is got to take some space you know ;) | 20:20 |
| tigert | press zoom-out | 20:21 |
| kjetilho | tigert: duh! | 20:21 |
| * kjetilho feels very stupid now | 20:21 | |
| tigert | it has to be big enough so you can use it with thumbs | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | if inz could make the scroolbar a little bit shorter, and put a toolbar toogle button underneath it | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | without sacrificing horizontal space... | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | that would be sweet | 20:22 |
| tigert | if you use the thumb keyboard, they complemet each other nicely. | 20:22 |
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| kjetilho | well, the thumb keyboard doesn't work too well for me | 20:22 |
| tigert | it doesnt make sense to have a half-height one | 20:22 |
| tigert | try to learn it? | 20:23 |
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| tigert | i am liking it a lot. i have been ircing the past hour with my n800 | 20:23 |
| tigert | with the thumb keyboard | 20:23 |
| tigert | an i am very vocal today :) | 20:23 |
| kjetilho | how do I accept the autocomplete? | 20:24 |
| tigert | it works wonderfully for me | 20:24 |
| kjetilho | hmm right arrow | 20:24 |
| Tak | right arrow | 20:24 |
| tigert | you turn that bitch off. | 20:24 |
| kjetilho | hehe | 20:24 |
| tigert | ;) | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | autocompletion? | 20:24 |
| kjetilho | it's a bit annoying that passwords show up there ... | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | but it is sooo convenient | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | it completes all my ssh passwords for me | 20:24 |
| tigert | for that reason too. | 20:24 |
| hap | :) | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | is there a way to clear its dictionary? | 20:25 |
| Jaffa | It gets the case wrong on my SSH passwords, which is even more annoying | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | well, I'm sure there is | 20:25 |
| Tak | yep | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | Jaffa: that's a *security* feature | 20:25 |
| mgedmin | :) | 20:25 |
| tigert | yea. i turn off autocaps too | 20:25 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin; ahh :-) | 20:26 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, home time. BBL | 20:26 |
| kjetilho | autocaps is _really_ annoying. | 20:26 |
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| tigert | with all the auto-annoyances off the thumb keyboard is pretty nice to me. it also helps to turn the touchscreen tap sounds loud. | 20:26 |
| kjetilho | actually yhte thumb keyboard wasn't so bad -- I must have tried to ue it with my index fingers before. | 20:26 |
| tigert | it gives nice feedback, even as bogus as it is | 20:27 |
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| kjetilho | tap sounds? hrm... then you need to wear headphones all the time | 20:27 |
| tigert | yea, try it with thumbs. having a bit of nails helps too | 20:28 |
| tigert | and holdig thtablet more vertically when typing | 20:28 |
| tigert | nah. no headphones needed | 20:28 |
| tigert | its the neighbouring peoples problem though :) | 20:28 |
| kjetilho | it's hard to use the Ctrl lock with the thumb keyboard, though. | 20:29 |
| tigert | but having sounds on for tapping increases my typing speed and accuracy quite considerably. | 20:29 |
| tigert | is it? | 20:29 |
| tigert | tap ctrl, press screen, press thumb key, close thumb kbd. | 20:29 |
| tigert | many steps yes, but still quite okay. | 20:30 |
| kjetilho | s/hard/inconvenent. but certainly a lot better than before :) | 20:30 |
| tigert | it tolerable imho. much less annoying than the dialog | 20:30 |
| tigert | yeah | 20:31 |
| tigert | irc in pocket is nice. i have discovered that putting the tablet in jeans bck pocket scren facing away from your buttock works nicely when walking. the screen doesnt get taps. | 20:32 |
| kjetilho | tigert: do you rememebr the gconf key value for configuring it? | 20:32 |
| tigert | of course screenlock and jacket poket works too. | 20:32 |
| tigert | kjetilho, sorry no. inz just said there was one. didnt look. try the sources? | 20:33 |
| * kjetilho is grepping the gconf xml :) | 20:34 | |
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| kjetilho | btw, how do you copy and paste? | 20:36 |
| Tak | how many AaronL can #maemo handle?! :-P | 20:36 |
| AaronL3 | any US developers receive code yet? | 20:37 |
| tigert | via the menu? | 20:37 |
| Tak | not I | 20:37 |
| AaronL3 | different ssh session | 20:37 |
| kjetilho | tigert: right. today is the day for stupid questions. I tried to use the time sensitive popup menu ... | 20:37 |
| AaronL3 | this, time, irc from 770 | 20:37 |
| tigert | yea, that doesnt have paste | 20:38 |
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| tigert | aaron, via thumb kbd? :) | 20:38 |
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| kjetilho | tigert: yes it has, but it resets the selection, so copy is hard ... | 20:38 |
| AaronL3 | no, regular VK | 20:38 |
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| tigert | the small vkbd has copy and paste too, in the menu. | 20:39 |
| tigert | they work in term, iirc | 20:39 |
| tigert | aaronl, gawk | 20:39 |
| AaronL3 | weil, guess I have to wait a bit longer :-) | 20:39 |
| tigert | not typing very much then i guess ;) | 20:39 |
| tigert | yea, afaik european codes were sent today. | 20:40 |
| AaronL3 | just tried copy from vk menu in xterm, didn't work | 20:40 |
| tigert | you need to open vkb first | 20:41 |
| tigert | then select | 20:41 |
| tigert | since the resize messes the selection up afaik | 20:41 |
| AaronL3 | yeah, everyone on the channel seemed to be receiving them yesterday, except us devels | 20:41 |
| AaronL3 | did that | 20:41 |
| tigert | did that | 20:42 |
| tigert | it worked here ^^^ | 20:42 |
| AaronL3 | vkb is perpetually open when using terminal irc | 20:42 |
| AaronL3 | selected text, copy grayed out still | 20:43 |
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| tigert | weird | 20:43 |
| AaronL3 | no big, nothing i need to copy :-) | 20:43 |
| tigert | i use just thumb kbd for irc, sorry :/ | 20:43 |
| tzz | AaronL: I got some help from an Emacs developer, working on converting C++ code now into C to generate X events manually for the pop-up keyboard. | 20:44 |
| AaronL3 | trying thumb now | 20:45 |
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| tzz | AaronL: Emacs uses a GDK drawing area instead of a GTK widget apparently, that's why it won't trigger the keyboard on focus. | 20:45 |
| tigert | turn off all the autocompletion, at least i find them distracting with thumb | 20:45 |
| Tak | I like the autocompletion with thumb | 20:45 |
| c0ffee | somebody from US got their codes yet? | 20:46 |
| tigert | yea, i guess its very personal thing | 20:46 |
| Tak | not I | 20:46 |
| AaronL3 | tzz: i think you can still get keyboard events even with drawing area | 20:46 |
| AaronL3 | not I as well | 20:47 |
| tzz | AaronL: you mean I don't have to do the X event stuff, just set a property? | 20:47 |
| AaronL3 | tzz: VNC wraps a drawing area in a viewing area thing, makes it scrollable | 20:48 |
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| AaronL3 | i think keypresses are handled by the viewer | 20:48 |
| kjetilho | heh, now my toolbar is hosed :) | 20:48 |
| kjetilho | this bit worked: | 20:48 |
| kjetilho | gconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/xterm/keys -t list --list-type=string '[Page_Up, Page_Down, <ctrl>p, <ctrl>n, <ctrl>o\,p, <ctrl>o\,n]' | 20:48 |
| AaronL3 | i forget exacr name | 20:48 |
| tigert | kj: sweet :) | 20:49 |
| kjetilho | but this changed the buttons to ^A (ie missing glyph, code 0001) | 20:49 |
| kjetilho | gconftool-2 --set /apps/osso/xterm/key_labels -t list --list-type=string '[PgUp, PgDn, C-p, C-n, C-o p, C-o n]' | 20:49 |
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| tigert | i need to add tango-colours | 20:50 |
| tigert | they look so much nicer on the term | 20:50 |
| tzz | AaronL: I'll look at the sources for the VNC viewer in SVN, thanks. | 20:50 |
| tigert | can you find if the colors key is there as well? | 20:51 |
| tigert | does vncviewer do stylus-panning btw? | 20:51 |
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| AaronL3 | tigert: no, but we might add it, panning done currently either by hardware keys or scrollbar | 20:52 |
| AaronL3 | mouse actions on screen sent to server | 20:52 |
| kjetilho | tigert: actually changing the labels worked, it just didn't work while running. | 20:53 |
| AaronL3 | panning via mouse might be possible using hardware modifier key | 20:53 |
| AaronL3 | i.e. hold + down and drag | 20:53 |
| tzz | AaronL: am I looking at the main_vbox in interface.c? | 20:54 |
| tzz | AaronL: in interface_main_new() | 20:54 |
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| AaronL3 | tzz: look for a few things in this file | 20:54 |
| tzz | AaronL: OK, thanks. I'll check back in when I have something useful. | 20:55 |
| AaronL3 | tzz: keypress and keyrelease, see what these callbacks are hooked up to | 20:55 |
| AaronL3 | tzz: viewport | 20:55 |
| tigert | yea, some pan mode toggle maybe that would draw a colored rectangle around the screen to indicate pan mode perhaps | 20:56 |
| kjetilho | the vkb pops up instead of the thumb kbd way too often. any hints for how I should press the screen? | 20:56 |
| AaronL3 | tzz: that will show how the drawing area is scrolled in scrolledwindow | 20:56 |
| AaronL3 | colored rect, maybe, but currently, all screen real estate is dedicated to VNC | 20:58 |
| kjetilho | it looks like it will tend to prefer the previous choice, so if I stop switching back and forth ... | 20:58 |
| AaronL3 | press harder, perhaps | 20:58 |
| AaronL3 | press with whole fingertip | 20:58 |
| Tak | yeah, I put my whole thumb on the screen when I want the thumbboard | 20:59 |
| tzz | AaronL: I don't want scrolling, just a container that will hint to Hildon that the application accepts text input. So I need to learn about GTK before I can understand your code. | 20:59 |
| AaronL3 | required pressure can be changed from vk tools menu | 20:59 |
| tzz | the last thing I need is another framework... I've been working on Ajax web sites for a month now, and my brain will probably overheat if I cram GTK in there too. | 21:00 |
| Tak | good to know | 21:00 |
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| guerby | AaronL3, hi, did they send the coupons for US people yet? | 21:00 |
| AaronL3 | tzz: sounds like gtk learning is in order :-) | 21:00 |
| kjetilho | right, it also seems like it helps to apply pressure gradually. | 21:00 |
| tzz | I might start forgetting how to write cryptic Perl one-lners :) | 21:00 |
| Tak | that would be a tragedy | 21:01 |
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| AaronL3 | guerby: not yet | 21:01 |
| guerby | AaronL2, I've just seen the email about Europe/US let's wait a bit then | 21:01 |
| AaronL3 | guerby: right, none of the US devels on #maemo have received codes yet | 21:02 |
| Tak | maybe we just suck :-P | 21:02 |
| AaronL3 | Tak: what do you work on? | 21:03 |
| Tak | xmame, fceu, vba | 21:04 |
| AaronL3 | cool | 21:04 |
| Tak | and a vaporware screen blanking applet that I keep meaning to write | 21:04 |
| AaronL3 | I chatted with my colleague, Detlef, and we may start on rdesktop soon | 21:05 |
| AaronL3 | VNC viewer is pretty mature | 21:05 |
| Tak | haha - funny how we tend to focus on a category of software | 21:05 |
| AaronL3 | need to localize and do on-line help first though | 21:06 |
| AaronL3 | people seem to want rdesktop | 21:06 |
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| AaronL3 | and we might get paid for it as well :-) | 21:07 |
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| * kjetilho gasps -- he realises the killer key for that toolbar is M-a! :-) | 21:07 | |
| Tak | very nice | 21:07 |
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| AaronL3 | well gotta go, nice seeing you AaronL2 | 21:08 |
| AaronL3 | and the rest | 21:08 |
| AaronL3 | bye | 21:08 |
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| melmoth | Is it worth the pain trying to package swig or did somebody already do it ? | 21:09 |
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| tigert | kj, M-a? | 21:19 |
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| bhima | packaging swig for installation on the device itself? | 21:22 |
| melmoth | bhima: yes. i think so (idea would be to use python to access some c library). | 21:23 |
| guerby | eh eh looks like I have an interested xkb hacker | 21:24 |
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| bhima | melmoth: Unless I'm really wrong, I think you only need to have swig running on scratchbox. | 21:25 |
| melmoth | as i do not have the n800 yet, i m stuck with scratchbox anyway :) | 21:26 |
| bhima | melmoth: native swig would also require native gcc, which isn't that commonly desired. | 21:26 |
| bhima | I just use a prefix of /sw and build anything I want without any real problems... | 21:26 |
| melmoth | oh, so i would have to install swig on my linux desktop in order to generate the python wrapper ? | 21:27 |
| bhima | Yeah. SWIG generates native python and native compiled libraries. | 21:27 |
| bhima | Unless I'm totally mis-remembering, SWIG is only needed for building, not for executing. | 21:28 |
| * bhima pokes around to double check. | 21:29 | |
| melmoth | anyway, it looks like i managed to packaged it (thanks to dh_make). | 21:31 |
| Tak | hmm - there's an osso method to prevent the display from blanking; is there one to blank it? | 21:33 |
| bhima | melmoth: Hrm. I'm sorry, it does look like I mis-remembered. There are some shared libraries that SWIG uses. I'm not sure if they are always needed or not. | 21:34 |
| Tak | hmm, will turning the display brightness to zero effectively blank it? | 21:38 |
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| Marek_ | hi all | 21:41 |
| Marek_ | is the handwriting recognition found in n770 and n800 open source? | 21:41 |
| c0ffee | no | 21:41 |
| Marek_ | c0ffee, oh ok | 21:42 |
| Marek_ | c0ffee, do you know whether it's natural, cursive hw recognition? | 21:42 |
| c0ffee | no idea | 21:42 |
| Marek_ | oh ok, thanks anyway :) | 21:42 |
| Marek_ | c0ffee, btw [ot] was that you who made gentoo ebuilds for xgl etc? | 21:43 |
| c0ffee | no | 21:43 |
| Tak | it doesn't seem like it's natural cursive recognition | 21:43 |
| Marek_ | ok so htat was another person then,... | 21:43 |
| Andy80 | I've just installed openssh on 770, cooooooool :D | 21:44 |
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| keesj | Andy80, that is very nice to have yes. | 21:48 |
| keesj | I am so used to it now , but that is really great | 21:48 |
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| Andy80 | I'm using python from command line via ssh ;) | 21:57 |
| Andy80 | too cool :D | 21:57 |
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| bhima | Andy80: That's pretty sexy. But, IMHO, a bluetooth keyboard is sexier. :) | 21:58 |
| Andy80 | bhima: but expensive :( | 21:58 |
| Andy80 | I cannot find a cheap one neither on ebay | 21:58 |
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| Zmanu | hello | 22:04 |
| Zmanu | i don't understand i try to install osso-xterm, i try different version osso-xterm_0.12_arm.deb and 0.11 and 0.10 but none works | 22:05 |
| c0ffee | what is the error message? | 22:06 |
| Tak | is that os2005? | 22:06 |
| Zmanu | os2006 | 22:06 |
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| Zmanu | i have no error, i look inside "details" and i see no possibility to install | 22:07 |
| Tak | os2006 uses armel architecture | 22:07 |
| Zmanu | 0.13 can be install but i have errors | 22:07 |
| Zmanu | sorry next time it don't work and at this time that's good | 22:08 |
| Zmanu | thanks | 22:08 |
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| pahartik | Tak: did earlier Maemo version run in big-endian mode? | 22:08 |
| Tak | not afaik | 22:09 |
| gpd | anyone seen a working Vim for bora yet? Are we waiting for MUD release? | 22:09 |
| pahartik | Tak: oh well... | 22:09 |
| gpd | I know Vi is there - but still... | 22:09 |
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| keesj | gpd, mud release? | 22:12 |
| myren_ | what what is mud? | 22:12 |
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| gpd | keesj: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mud-builder/ | 22:12 |
| Andy80 | do you think that Skype will be released for 770 too or only for 800? If it's made similar to gizmo (the 800 version run on 770) it could be possible... what do you think about it? | 22:12 |
| gpd | Jaffa: is the MUD master | 22:13 |
| keesj | and I am the biggest fan (and contributor) | 22:13 |
| maddler | re | 22:13 |
| * Tak has been meaning to do some mudding | 22:13 | |
| gpd | keesj: so you are saying the my use of 'release' was misleading? | 22:14 |
| |tbb| | wb maddler | 22:14 |
| keesj | gpd, no the waiting part :p | 22:14 |
| gpd | keesj: ie. i should be submitting the vim xml -- not 'just waiting' ? | 22:14 |
| keesj | yes , for example , it is quite easy to create . | 22:15 |
| ||cw | gizmo quality sucks, and skype probably needs more cpu and ram so i really doubt that it'll actualy be usable on the 770 | 22:15 |
| keesj | I have better success with building from source but .deb based package should even be easyer | 22:15 |
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| keesj | I am trying my first "real" port of a program , I am trying to port tuxpaint | 22:16 |
| gpd | keesj: ok - well i'll try and build it and if i have success then i'll submit the xml to MUD | 22:16 |
| gpd | but I can't believe that Vim isn't more popular... | 22:16 |
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| keesj | gpd, but if you fail it will me even more interesting for us | 22:17 |
| lardman | gpd: All about the lowest common denominator | 22:17 |
| czr | is there a brief page giving the biggest technical diff between 800 and 770? | 22:17 |
| gpd | keesj: how so? | 22:17 |
| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 22:17 |
| lardman | gpd: vi is always there, so if you have to learn something, make it that | 22:17 |
| gpd | lardman: I know vi because I know Vim -- they are the same -- it is just that Vim has about 5 squizillion improvements that make actually using it to code a pleasure ;) | 22:18 |
| ||cw | czr: newrr, faster cpu and more ram | 22:18 |
| lardman | czr: and hardware vfp | 22:19 |
| czr | ||cw, same omap though? | 22:19 |
| ||cw | czr: shoudl be something on maemo.org | 22:19 |
| czr | I'l searching. but.. | 22:19 |
| ||cw | czr: no, newer one | 22:19 |
| lardman | czr: No, omap2420 vs 1710 in the 770 | 22:19 |
| czr | ah, so it's finally updated :-) | 22:19 |
| czr | yeah, I did code on 770 some time (a lot) back | 22:19 |
| lardman | dsp may or may not be the same | 22:20 |
| czr | are there still any open source dev tools for the dsp part? | 22:20 |
| lardman | "open", yes | 22:20 |
| czr | open source :-). targetting 550, not 540. | 22:20 |
| lardman | need to register to download, but not open source | 22:20 |
| czr | yeah, same ti-chain then I guess? | 22:21 |
| gpd | keesj: the default vim-tiny.deb package fails to build with the following deps missing: | 22:21 |
| keesj | gpd, the debian section would be user/office right? | 22:21 |
| lardman | it is a 55 though | 22:21 |
| mokki | I get a lot of "mmcblk0: error 1 sending read/write command" and "end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector <sectornumber>" and most of my files on the sd seem to be corrupted | 22:21 |
| gpd | dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: dpkg-dev (>= 1.13.19) libgpmg1-dev | not+linux-gnu libperl-dev (>= 5.6) tcl8.4-dev python-dev ruby ruby1.8-dev libgnomeui-dev quilt | 22:21 |
| czr | lardman, yeah, but I had also a gcc targetting 54x which almost worked on the 770 | 22:21 |
| mokki | has anyone else seen any corruption or should I just return the newly bought cheapo sd card? | 22:21 |
| lardman | czr: yep, looks like that's all there is. Not much info on the Ti website about the new omap either | 22:21 |
| czr | just not quite. was too lazy to really fix it. | 22:21 |
| czr | lardman, yeah. same thing as the last time ;-) | 22:21 |
| ||cw | mokki: how is it partitioned | 22:22 |
| lardman | czr: yep. I must take a look at the GCC effort | 22:22 |
| czr | I don't know wheter there is one anymore. it was some fork off older gcc that I stumbled around when I was working with 770 | 22:22 |
| czr | two years ago or so. | 22:22 |
| ||cw | mokki: some cards come with the device itself with a filesystem on it, no partitions, and that doens't always work well | 22:22 |
| mokki | ||cw, I just plugged it in and have not told n800 to format it | 22:23 |
| mokki | either n800 formatted it itself or then it was preformatted | 22:23 |
| maddler | Jaffa: alive? | 22:23 |
| ||cw | I'm not aware of cards that aren't preformated | 22:23 |
| lardman | czr: Yeah, I wondered if it would die out. The Ti Linux toolchain isn't much better though! | 22:24 |
| czr | lardman, indeed. it's sad that ti doesn't see the light | 22:24 |
| czr | or rather, sad that no one is willing to sponsor a proper compiler | 22:24 |
| czr | but I guess people don't care about the dsp part. | 22:24 |
| mokki | ||cw, ok. I think I'll try to format it now using the file manager and then try to fill it with rubbish data and see if I get more corruption | 22:24 |
| lardman | czr: well, as Ti give one away, that's not such an issue | 22:25 |
| czr | lardman, you and I know what I mean :-) | 22:25 |
| maddler | hmmm... has anyone tried mud already? | 22:25 |
| lardman | czr: :). I'd certainly like more support than a spam-filled Yahoo group anyway! | 22:25 |
| czr | lardman, hah. you just don't appreciate all the vilagra offers that kind people all over the world think that dsp-devs need? ;-) | 22:26 |
| czr | well, I guess I'll have to start hanging around here again. just ordered the 800. | 22:27 |
| lardman | czr: Maybe that's it. I have a feeling that the Ti Linux toolchain is abandonware though, which exaplains the lack of emails/filtering in the group | 22:28 |
| czr | it is abandonware to the best of my knowledge | 22:28 |
| czr | they only support code studio I think | 22:28 |
| lardman | I wonder if there's anyone about with ccs who'd be willing to email me clk.a55L....? | 22:29 |
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| lardman | I tried to download the evaluation version today (which I presume contains all the libs), but their website is rubbish and I kept getting a blank page | 22:29 |
| * czr has no idea. | 22:30 | |
| czr | btw, is the maemo mailinglist highvolume nowadays? | 22:30 |
| * lardman will try again tomorrow | 22:30 | |
| czr | high volume even. | 22:30 |
| lardman | czr: Not super-high, but a fair bit of traffic | 22:30 |
| czr | hmm. maybe I'll join at some point again. | 22:31 |
| czr | devs need vilagra, so I'll provide that :-) | 22:31 |
| lardman | :) | 22:31 |
| lardman | I'm looking forward to testing the vfp unit :) (nothing to do with viagra!) | 22:32 |
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| czr | vfp? | 22:32 |
| inz | After the launch the maemo-dev list gained some momentum | 22:32 |
| lardman | Hopefully Octave will become more useable | 22:32 |
| inz | N800 launch that is | 22:32 |
| Tak | indeed | 22:32 |
| lardman | czr: vector floating point | 22:32 |
| czr | ah. simd stuff I guess? | 22:32 |
| czr | does gcc target that properly? | 22:32 |
| lardman | czr: Just plain harware floating point. Should do. | 22:33 |
| czr | ah. ok then. thought that vector actually meant something ;-) | 22:33 |
| lardman | czr: Yeah, I was wondering about that last year when eabi was touted for OpenZaurus & I was looking at Octave fp errors. Probably not is the answer :) | 22:34 |
| lardman | just sounds cool ;) | 22:34 |
| * czr nods | 22:34 | |
| czr | 0 day vectorz floating pointz. | 22:34 |
| czr | hmm. now I just need to think of some project that I'd do on 800. pft. | 22:35 |
| lardman | czr: I tell a lie: The VFP architecture also supports execution of short vector instructions allowing SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data) parallelism. | 22:35 |
| lardman | czr: From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#VFP | 22:35 |
| czr | from the official N-page, I saw that vorbis is still not listed as supported audio type. is there a dsp-version of the decoder? | 22:35 |
| lardman | czr: nope | 22:36 |
| czr | hmm. that's sad. | 22:36 |
| lardman | czr: I'd be happy to just get some of the examples to link! | 22:36 |
| lardman | and load without a lifeguard reset | 22:36 |
| lardman | From what Serge was saying, it's only audio that's decoded using the dsp now, video is all on the ARM side | 22:37 |
| inz | tigert, http://www.hornymanatee.com/images/fan_art/17884_7352737345a7b6a329beb.jpg -- is that by you or some other "Tuomas K." ;) | 22:37 |
| * czr will continue lurking then | 22:38 | |
| czr | if I will disappointed by 800 when it arrives, I will just blame it on you all then :-) | 22:38 |
| lardman | czr: and vice versa ;) | 22:39 |
| czr | if I blame you, you'll blame the 800? :-) | 22:39 |
| czr | deal :-) | 22:39 |
| bhima | gpd: Vim isn't more popular because it's inferior to EMACS. | 22:39 |
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| lardman | czr: Disappointment just means a challenge opens up though... | 22:39 |
| czr | lardman, or it can be just a disappointment ;-) | 22:40 |
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| czr | I have almost no expectations. just wish the 99 aren't wasted :-) | 22:40 |
| lardman | eventually, but hopefully some useful lessons on the way (fingers crossed) | 22:40 |
| lardman | czr: I think that the hw vfp on its own will be worth the 99euros | 22:40 |
| tko | bhima, by inferior you must mean does not provide complex enough finger gymnastics exercises for your fingers... :) | 22:41 |
| czr | lardman, I have itaniums for serious number crunching :-) actually I want PS3 next. | 22:41 |
| Tak | heh - my fiancee's rsi subsided when she switched from emacs to vim | 22:41 |
| lardman | I want my sudoku solver to take less than 2 minutes! | 22:42 |
| bhima | tko: Emacs is a great way to make sure that the buttons on your device support many-key rollover. :) | 22:42 |
| lardman | czr: When it takes ~1s on a p4 | 22:42 |
| lardman | czr: Perhaps I need to modify my MATLAB/Octave programming ;) | 22:42 |
| czr | lardman, your algorithm is not good then I guess :-) | 22:42 |
| bhima | tko: the software guys will tell the hardware guys, "I don't care if it adds $10 to the cost, I need all 16 modifier keys to be pressable at once. | 22:43 |
| tko | lardman, http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh/sudoku.lhs :) | 22:43 |
| lardman | czr: I went for a human-style solver, rather than brute force, but I guess I'd need to specify that the arrays are ints | 22:43 |
| czr | well, I didn't suggest that brute force was a good algorithm :-) | 22:43 |
| lardman | no, but there comes a point when most solvers do use brute force as it's more economical that way | 22:44 |
| * czr shrugs | 22:44 | |
| czr | brute force feels to dirty :-) | 22:44 |
| czr | it's like soiling your brand washed slacks | 22:44 |
| lardman | yep, it's the challenge rather than the result | 22:44 |
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| lardman | or the speed thereof | 22:44 |
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| bhima | Is there a way for me to write my own popup keyboard? I don't see that in the API docs. | 22:47 |
| czr | hmm. has anyone benchmarked whether fp-intensive stuff is runnable now? | 22:47 |
| bhima | (specifically, I would like to make my E70 be a keyboard...) | 22:47 |
| lardman | czr: I will do in 2-5 days (or whatever it says) | 22:47 |
| czr | lardman, ah, good then :-) | 22:47 |
| czr | lardman, I should get my box shortly too, but I don't have spare time right now, so testing will have to wait | 22:48 |
| lardman | I've got some odds and sods compiled and ready to go - whetstone, etc. | 22:48 |
| |tbb| | is there a new mplayer for the n800 available right now? | 22:48 |
| tzz | tbb: yes | 22:49 |
| tzz | tbb: Siarhei posted a link in the ITT thread | 22:49 |
| hap | aah, my N800 i bought yesterday has only been sent tonight :( sic | 22:50 |
| lardman | Mine's just been shipped too. I bought it at ~midnight last night - thanks Nokia :) | 22:52 |
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| tzz | tbb: http://ufo2000.xcomufo.com/maemo/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.n800.experimental_armel.deb | 22:52 |
| tzz | bhima: modifying the popup keyboard is hard. | 22:53 |
| guerby | grrr damn kxb wonder who invented that... | 22:53 |
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| mgedmin | I tried to install bomberman on my n770, and it ran out of disk space | 22:54 |
| lardman | hmm, UPS doesn't recognise my tracking number | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | now I cannot do anything | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | cannot even delete files with the file manager! | 22:54 |
| guerby | lardman, don't worry it takes a while | 22:54 |
| lardman | guerby: Ah, okay, thanks | 22:54 |
| bhima | tzz: I'd like to have the option of making the E70 be just a keyboard, or to have it behave like the popup, such that the field appears on the E70 and lets you edit it there. | 22:54 |
| lardman | mgedmin: Has it partially installed? | 22:54 |
| mgedmin | the menus don't work, the status bar icons don't work (cannot get online to ssh in) | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | yes | 22:55 |
| lardman | can you get xterm up? | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | no | 22:55 |
| lardman | and delete something or other? | 22:55 |
| tzz | bhima: that's different. Yoiu want to use the E70 as a BT keyboard, I think--but don't know if it supports that BT profile. | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | the home key gives me "device memory full. remove data to free memory." | 22:55 |
| lardman | mgedmin: Oh. I wonder how it happened. I wonder if it tried to do some expanding in the postinst script or something like that? | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | aha, I can get online while my home desktop is bare white and ugly! | 22:56 |
| mgedmin | I can probably quote you the application log once I ssh in and rm something | 22:56 |
| lardman | see if you can apt-get remove (??) bomberman | 22:57 |
| * lardman only really knows ipkg | 22:57 | |
| bhima | tzz: It doesn't out of the box, and I don't want to actually try to implement HID in C++ or Python on the E70. | 22:57 |
| czr | has anyone tested cairo stuff on 800? is it useable there (compared to 770) | 22:57 |
| mgedmin | uh oh | 22:57 |
| mgedmin | rm conferenceformat.pdf | 22:58 |
| mgedmin | rm: unable to remove `conferenceformat.pdf': No space left on device | 22:58 |
| mgedmin | wtf? | 22:58 |
| tigert | inz, hah. someone else :) | 22:58 |
| lardman | czr: I understand that it's much better all around, and iirc will be included in both in the future | 22:58 |
| mgedmin | mummy, I don't wanna reflash | 22:58 |
| bhima | tzz: The sanest thing to do would probably be to use RFCOMM and make it behave like, say, the Freedom BT keyboard as a first pass. | 22:58 |
| lardman | czr: there was a recent post exaplaining that most of the internals are fixed point anyway | 22:58 |
| czr | lardman, well, I have a large software which uses cairo and just thinking on whether doing a client for the 800 would make sense. it didn't for 770 | 22:58 |
| czr | lardman, ah, ok. will dig about when the device arrives I guess :-) | 22:59 |
| tzz | bhima: agreed, I don't know much more in that direction though. | 22:59 |
| lardman | mgedmin: You could try rebooting and see whether jffs2 garbage collects any space | 22:59 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 22:59 |
| bhima | tzz: Ok, thanks. | 22:59 |
| mgedmin | or it could fail to boot :) | 22:59 |
| mgedmin | I'll make a backup first | 22:59 |
| lardman | indeed... | 22:59 |
| mgedmin | dmesg is full of Argh. No free space left for GC. nr_erasing_blocks is 0. nr_free_blocks is 0. (erasableempty: yes, erasingempty: yes, erasependingempty: yes) | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | jffs2_reserve_space_gc of 71 bytes for garbage_collect_dirent failed: -28 | 23:00 |
| czr | argh is still better than aieee ;-) | 23:00 |
| lardman | mgedmin: I'm not sure how it could fail to remove stuff unless there's no room left to re-write the .... ah, I see that's true | 23:00 |
| mgedmin | you obviously know more about jffs2 than I do :) | 23:01 |
| lardman | mgedmin: Not good form that it's allowed you to use so much space. | 23:01 |
| bhima | I haven't found much written about this...how does VPN foo interact with the 770's internet connection stuff? | 23:01 |
| lardman | mgedmin: Comes from using a Zaurus for years | 23:01 |
| bhima | Is it plausible to run a VPN on my 770 so that it will seamlessly roam between different networks? | 23:02 |
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| mgedmin | lardman: any good entry-level documents about how jffs2 works? for spare-time reading out of curiosity; it's past time for me to upgrade to OS2006.2 anyway | 23:04 |
| lardman | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 is a starter | 23:05 |
| lardman | http://sourceware.org/jffs2/ has some links. I'm not an expert, just what I've picked up from fielding other Zaurus users' issues | 23:06 |
| bhima | lardman: I see that JFFS2 "will be superseded." Sounds like JFFS3 isn't very far along yet, since it doesn't have anything up on wikipedia yet. :) | 23:06 |
| lardman | bhima: I seem to remember reading that a year or two ago aswell ;) | 23:06 |
| bhima | I still want a good explanation of how the wear levelling algorithms on flash memory. | 23:07 |
| lardman | http://www.m-sys.com/NR/rdonlyres/FCC7D817-38A5-4D80-8471-67DA793EA255/0/TN_017_TrueFFS_Wear_Leveling_Mechanism.pdf | 23:10 |
| lardman | From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_levelling | 23:10 |
| ||cw | it just keeps track of how many times each block has been written to and tries to write new data to the lowest number first | 23:10 |
| mgedmin | dum-de-dum: tar: Names longer than 100 chars not supported. | 23:10 |
| ||cw | basicaly | 23:10 |
| mgedmin | I wonder what that was about | 23:10 |
| mgedmin | ah, ./MyDocs/.documents/europython2006/special_accomodation_files/.svn/prop-base/default_print.css.svn-base | 23:11 |
| mgedmin | don't need that crap | 23:11 |
| |tbb| | tzz thx for the link, its possible to customize the popup kbd??? | 23:11 |
| mgedmin | |tbb|: somewhat | 23:11 |
| lardman | ||cw: It would be interesting to know whether written blocks are moved about to aid in wear levelling. I imagine not. | 23:11 |
| mgedmin | the maemo 3 documentation describes it | 23:11 |
| |tbb| | keyboard | 23:11 |
| bhima | Moving a written block around sounds wasteful. | 23:12 |
| |tbb| | oh, then i need a ctrl button | 23:12 |
| lardman | My link wasn't that good, started off well then stopped | 23:12 |
| ||cw | yeah, that would cost more writes | 23:12 |
| mgedmin | |tbb|: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_him_bora.html | 23:12 |
| mgedmin | a ctrl button, sadly, appears to be not supported by the vkb | 23:13 |
| lardman | bhima: Yeah, but imagine the situation where all of / is on NAND, and only a few files are re-written again and again. As the available space is reduced you'll start wearing out those ones | 23:13 |
| bhima | OTOH, I think that wear levelling will always have compromises of some kind, so moving around _sometimes_ may help avoid pathological data structures. | 23:13 |
| mgedmin | try the new maemo-hackers xterm with a ctrl in the sidebar | 23:13 |
| bhima | lardman: Oh, I was thinking of "moving around a written block" as "moving without changing" | 23:13 |
| lardman | bhima: Me too | 23:14 |
| lardman | bhima: I think that's actuall done by jffs2 to make holes larger | 23:14 |
| tzz | tbb: you can't customize the pop-up keyboard AFAIK. You can have language layouts, that's about it. | 23:14 |
| |tbb| | ah k | 23:15 |
| waite | Flash access cannot really be made opimal in a general FS layout. JFFS2 makes its best attempt. | 23:15 |
| tzz | mgedmin: I didn't see keyboard customization in the maemo 3 docs, maybe I missed it :) | 23:15 |
| mgedmin | I pasted the link 3 minutes ago | 23:15 |
| mgedmin | the documentation is not very useful without examples | 23:16 |
| mgedmin | because what you usually want to do is to take the existing layout and tweak a couple of keys | 23:16 |
| ||cw | oh, moving on write, yeah, that would make sence | 23:16 |
| ||cw | or on re-write I should say | 23:16 |
| waite | JFFS2, and genreal wear leveling, only occurs on a modified blocks of FLASH. | 23:17 |
| |tbb| | do i need a scratchbox to modify it or can i "hack" some files on the bora directly | 23:17 |
| tzz | mgedmin: I know you pasted it, I'm saying I missed it when I was looking :) Sorry for the noise. | 23:17 |
| waite | The FLASH does not "wear" by being read, only by writes | 23:17 |
| lardman | waite: blocks can be moved together though to increase the length of unallocated blocks | 23:20 |
| waite | The tough part about FLASH is it sector based typically and not file based. wear leveling is a pain because a single bit modification can require a large sector of FLASH be copied/modified/written. Wearlevelling just makes that last write end up in a different sector | 23:20 |
| ||cw | since flash doesn't have "heads", there isn't a benifit to having free blocks next to each other | 23:21 |
| waite | lardman, sure but why? you mean for files that span many blocks? it is still only smart to do this when the large file is modified | 23:21 |
| ||cw | so that doens't matter | 23:21 |
| waite | JFFS2, iirc takes care of non-contigous FLASH sectores in a file. | 23:21 |
| xorAxAx | ||cw: in fact, that depends on the internal organisation | 23:22 |
| lardman | waite: For files that span less than a single block, collate them to free blocks | 23:22 |
| waite | Here is the trove of JFFS inco: http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/general.html | 23:22 |
| xorAxAx | ||cw: and for which sizes bursts are faster | 23:22 |
| mgedmin | gpd: I've compiled vim for os2006 with a bunch of goodies (syntax, spell checking, xterm mouse support), and stripped its runtime directory to several megs instead of several hundreds of megs | 23:23 |
| xorAxAx | but i guess bursts are only faster for tiny blocks | 23:23 |
| mgedmin | but I haven't built a .deb for it yet | 23:23 |
| waite | lardman, it is a waste of erase cycles to "defrag" FLASH | 23:24 |
| gpd | mgedmin: nice, nice -- you you have a tarball? | 23:25 |
| mgedmin | yes | 23:25 |
| mgedmin | and a shell script in ~/bin/ that sets VIMRUNTIME appropriately | 23:25 |
| Andy80 | I've just tried scummvm and monkey island 2. woooooooooooooooooooooooow!!!! :D | 23:26 |
| gpd | mgedmin: any chance of a donation via email or a URL? :D | 23:26 |
| lardman | waite: yes, unless you keep track of how often a given file is modified | 23:26 |
| mgedmin | gpd: sure | 23:26 |
| waite | Here are the JFFS2 algos: http://linux-mtd.infradead.org/~dwmw2/jffs2.pdf | 23:26 |
| * mgedmin tared up /home/user and /etc, and is now wondering whether he should back up anything else before reflashing | 23:28 | |
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| Tak | /var/lib/gconf ? | 23:28 |
| mgedmin | hmm... good idea | 23:28 |
| waite | lardman, the wearing of FLASH occurs on the erase cycle that is required for a write cycle. SO preemptinve erasing is to be avoided. And that is on a FLASH block level. Those can be pretty large. I've worked with 64K sector size. | 23:28 |
| lardman | waite: Thanks, finally a decent length exaplanation | 23:29 |
| waite | np | 23:29 |
| ||cw | now go update the wikipedia :) | 23:29 |
| waite | sector based FLASED are really horrible mappings to a filesystem. | 23:29 |
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| ||cw | you just need to set you FS's sector size the same as the flash's block size | 23:30 |
| waite | heheh yeah sector size are in the Ks. Can;t fit many files there :) | 23:30 |
| mgedmin | gpd: http://mg.pov.lt/vim7-for-mistral.tar.gz | 23:31 |
| mgedmin | untar in /home/user; use /home/user/bin/vim to start | 23:31 |
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| waite | The wikipedia links under References is a good one too | 23:32 |
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| mgedmin | hm, maybe my 770 was so unresponsive not because it ran out of disk space, but because it was busy writing stuff to flash/looking for free blocks there | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | now it is acting normally | 23:37 |
| mgedmin | (other than refusing to delete any files claiming there's no space for that) | 23:37 |
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| mgedmin | which means I can use the control panel's backup app | 23:38 |
| Ayoze | hi all | 23:38 |
| Tak | huzzah! | 23:39 |
| maddler | mgedmin: I'm working on a new release of vim's .deb | 23:39 |
| * mgedmin tries to remember whether he ever had a garage account or not | 23:39 | |
| maddler | both for 770 and m800 | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | maddler: yay! | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | can you include more stuff this time? | 23:40 |
| waite | hi Tak. Hows the car? | 23:40 |
| Tak | in the shop, waiting for estimate | 23:40 |
| maddler | mgedmin: I was considering having different .debs | 23:40 |
| mgedmin | yep | 23:40 |
| waite | That is a real bummer. Hope their ins convers it all. | 23:41 |
| maddler | I would keep a "small" one for 770 with a vim-addons.deb | 23:41 |
| Tak | it should, barring any weirdness/stupidity | 23:41 |
| Ayoze | does anybody know if I can deactivate the speaker in the 770, but not the headphone jack? the jack is a little broken, and sometimes it disconnects so the sound is sent via the speaker, and when you're in a library... hehe | 23:41 |
| *** obergix[work] has quit IRC | 23:41 | |
| mgedmin | maddler: vim-spell-en, vim-syntax, etc | 23:41 |
| Tak | I've already got verification that their insurance has agreed to cover | 23:41 |
| maddler | mgedmin: right | 23:41 |
| waite | Ayone, I doubt it. Usually it is a contact in the headphone jack to disable the speaker | 23:42 |
| maddler | and that could make sense on n800 as well... | 23:42 |
| waite | tak, good deal. Makes a bad day less worse | 23:42 |
| Tak | yeah | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | maddler: I built my vim with these features: http://pastey.net/5443 | 23:42 |
| maddler | having more memory doesn't mean to waste it... | 23:42 |
| *** Jui has joined #maemo | 23:43 | |
| maddler | mgedmin: ok... | 23:43 |
| myren_ | thats why we're not using emacs | 23:43 |
| myren_ | zing | 23:43 |
| keesj | so you want separate packages? | 23:43 |
| maddler | mgedmin: does +X11 makes sense? | 23:43 |
| mgedmin | very useful ones: +browse, +clipboard, +iconv, +linebreak, + mouse, +mouse_xterm, +syntax | 23:43 |
| Ayoze | waite: i think so :( | 23:44 |
| mgedmin | others are probably only there because I didn't bother to trim the default ones | 23:44 |
| mgedmin | X11 is probably useless | 23:44 |
| mgedmin | although I use console vim's X11 clipboard support a lot on my laptop | 23:44 |
| maddler | hehe... lazy guy :D | 23:44 |
| mgedmin | actually, scratch +clipboard and +mouse from the "very useful ones" list | 23:44 |
| gpd | mgedmin: just untar'd your tarball on my N800 to /home/user -- so far it works! :) | 23:45 |
| mgedmin | +mouse_xterm *is* very very VERY nice | 23:45 |
| mgedmin | I dunno if +mouse is a prerequisite for it or not | 23:45 |
| mgedmin | some mappings in ~/.vimrc also make vim much more usable on the 770 | 23:45 |
| gpd | mgedmin: with this tar - where do you put the runtime directory? | 23:46 |
| mgedmin | /home/user/vim7/runtime | 23:46 |
| gpd | mgedmin: then just put the vim binary in /usr/bin ? - or alias vim to /home/user/vim7/vim ? | 23:46 |
| mgedmin | my ~/.vimrc: http://pastey.net/5444 | 23:46 |
| mgedmin | the mouse click/mouse drag modifiers are good for a useful visual mode | 23:47 |
| mgedmin | gpd: I put a shell script in ~/bin that sets VIMRUNTIME and execs the vim binary in /home/user/vim7/vim | 23:47 |
| mgedmin | my ~/bin is in my $PATH (set from .profile, IIRC) | 23:47 |
| mgedmin | but you could copy it to /usr/bin as well | 23:47 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|tv | 23:49 | |
| c0ffee | oh my | 23:51 |
| * AaronL2 is back, as opposed to AaronL3 | 23:51 | |
| AaronL2 | any news on US discount codes? | 23:51 |
| AaronL2 | Any US developers receive their's? | 23:52 |
| maddler | hmmm... me is thinking about a maemopeople.org free blogspace | 23:52 |
| gpd | mgedmin: i must be missing something - I have 'export VIMRUNTIME=/home/user/vim7/runtime' - then vim -- but no syntax so far? | 23:52 |
| |tbb| | whats wrong it says a dont have an internal card but i have one installed | 23:52 |
| Tak | not I | 23:52 |
| mgedmin | gpd: :syntax on | 23:52 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: did you ask a question earlier about blanking the screen? | 23:52 |
| Tak | yes | 23:52 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: any responses? | 23:52 |
| Tak | no :-P | 23:53 |
| maddler | |tbb|: is it ext2? ;) | 23:53 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: as far as I know, there is no libosso function to blank the scren | 23:53 |
| keesj | this does not look to serious http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/nokia_invoice.png | 23:53 |
| Tak | yeah, that's what I'm finding | 23:53 |
| gpd | mgedmin: nope - syntax on and set syntax=php - but no go? -maybe php - me checks | 23:53 |
| mgedmin | yay, after a reboot I can rm files again | 23:53 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: It is possible to determine if the screen has been blanked (system inactivity timeout, although that's not obvious) | 23:53 |
| |tbb| | i was getting it so frm | 23:53 |
| |tbb| | nokia | 23:53 |
| mgedmin | gpd: I included only a few syntax files, not all of them | 23:53 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: Also, the application loses the focus, I think | 23:53 |
| mgedmin | what file are you editing? | 23:53 |
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| gpd | mgedmin: ok - no problem -- just a test file in that dir - works with shell etc ;) Thanks! | 23:54 |
| zyxulnaga | is there a way to flash to the latest OS2007 from linux? | 23:54 |
| zyxulnaga | or I need windows? | 23:54 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: Changing the brightness to 0 might effectively cause a screen blank, but I think there is more to system inactivity than just screen blanking | 23:54 |
| Tak | the callback hw_set_event_cb would tell me if it's blanked, right? | 23:54 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: It would tell you when it is blanked, not if it is blanked. | 23:54 |
| Tak | right | 23:54 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: However, you can easily tell if the screen is blanked or the application is minimized | 23:54 |
| mgedmin | eh? I suddenly have 11 megs free in /? | 23:54 |
| gpd | mgedmin: do you know if all of that runtime stuff can just go in ~/.vim ? Might be easier...? | 23:54 |
| mgedmin | must be the garbage collector | 23:54 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: by checking the focus--do a search on the maemo developer's list for inactivity, you will find a thread | 23:55 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: that doesn't help with causing the screen to be blanked, however | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | gpd: it can go in ~/.vim/runtime | 23:55 |
| Tak | hmm, I wouldn't get focus events in a sdl app, though, would I? | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | I hadn't thought of that | 23:55 |
| keesj | zyxulnaga, yes , please check the website | 23:55 |
| Tak | (fullscreen) | 23:55 |
| |tbb| | is it while im plugged into ac? | 23:55 |
| mgedmin | gpd: but I think the backup program on the 770 zips all dotfiles in /home/user, so you may start to get huuuge backups | 23:55 |
| * mgedmin decides to reflash anyway | 23:56 | |
| AaronL2 | Tak: one sec | 23:56 |
| zyxulnaga | keesj: it doesnt have a section for the n800 | 23:56 |
| gpd | mgedmin: ok - no problem - looks like most of the size is from the docs anyway -- dumping these would save 5M - but I guess :help is useful ocassionally | 23:57 |
| mgedmin | the new application catalog is pretty, but there are no screenshots of the applications :( | 23:57 |
| zyxulnaga | oh its titled under the 770 section | 23:58 |
| mgedmin | ah, right :help is one of the things I missed from maddler's original vim deb | 23:58 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: I meant, whether or not the window is active | 23:58 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: not whether or not it has the focus | 23:58 |
| Tak | ah | 23:58 |
| |tbb| | just curios | 23:58 |
| *** vivijim has quit IRC | 23:58 | |
| * mgedmin only now noticed the pretty green progress bar while flashing | 23:58 | |
| Tak | I wonder if the source is available for the screen locking functionality in the n800 | 23:58 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: The window loses the focus if the screen is blanked, if the application is minimized, or if the user switches to another application. | 23:58 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: I don't think so, I think that is in one of the closed source components. | 23:59 |
| |tbb| | also i wonder the n800 wont reboot from self a couple of hours | 23:59 |
| Tak | figured | 23:59 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: Someone posted about how to manually change the brightness, as used by the driver. | 23:59 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: there is something in /sys | 23:59 |
| Tak | there's a gconf variable | 23:59 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: Frantisek Dufka, or something like that | 23:59 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: the gconf variable is for the default setting for the display applet | 23:59 |
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