IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-01-25

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* bhima has an n-gage.00:06
* bhima thinks it's usually quite challenging to get actual, proper specs on Nokia phones.00:07
bhimaEven simple stuff like CPU, speed, DRAM, flash.00:07
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glassit's a sort of black art00:08
glass107mhz on ngage00:08
glass#symbian would be a better channel00:09
bhimaWhich n-gage, btw?00:10
glassqd or taco, same speed, same screen bitdepth(12)..00:10
glassqd lacks the mp3 chip though00:10
guerbydid the USA hackers receive coupons yet?00:11
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keesjme is downloading a large size takfro00:14
Takmaybe I should put that on the xmame page00:15
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* Tak tries to work out a UI for a screen-control applet00:19
* gpd notices
keesj screen-control applet?00:21
Takyeah, he copied that in a list mail too00:21
Takkeesj: blank now, disable blanking, lock00:22
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* minra looks around for things to sell00:22
Takmore if I get more ideas00:23
gpddid anyone ever test the standby mode further?00:23
lucaspirollabhima: classic00:23
Takoh, could set standby mode too00:23
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gpdTak: a standby button would be handy - but when i tried it from xterm the device would reboot if 'standingby' for more than about 1 minutes00:24
Takhow did you do it?00:24
Takmanually in /sys ?00:24
gpdyes echo standby to something in sys (can't rembmer now)00:24
* maddler was reading about OS2007 hacker edition... sounds interesting...00:24
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TakI'll probably do it via osso/dbus/mce00:24
Jaffamaddler: I'm worried it won't quite get to the point where end users can use it, meaning supporting two OS levels simulataneously00:25
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maddlerJaffa: well it looks to me that they cleared stated that it won't be an "official" release...00:27
maddlernor it is targeted to end-user00:27
Takthey stated that the *first* release won't be end-user00:27
maddlerdamn... my subdermal transl-A-chip isn't working today!00:28
* maddler getting cyberpunkish!00:28
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lucaspirollaDoes anyone know any document with hardware specfications for the n-gage CLASSIC or where i can get them?00:28
maddlerJaffa: by the way... UPS at last noticed that no, they won't deliver my N8 *this* afternoon...00:29
maddlerlucaspirolla: hard to find that here I'd say...00:29
lucaspirollamaddler: easier than other places :)00:29
maddlermaybe somewhere like symbian00:29
maddleror so...00:29
maddlermumble... wait...00:29
wasabi_Wish somebody would send me a N800. =)00:30
wasabi_Prolly not going to get one. Blew the bank on the n770. =/00:30
maddlerlucaspirolla: well... I can find _almost_ everything but n-gage00:30
Takditto; I won't be able to get one for a while w/o the dev discount00:30
Jaffamaddler: doh! Mine's in the country now, so I'll ring them first thing and get them to check the address00:31
maddlerJaffa: mine is only 15Km from here!!!00:31
Jaffamaddler: but there's a difference between "we won't support it or push it at end users" and an OS which *we* can push at end users if they want to run Vx.xx of some s/w.00:32
lucaspirollamaddler: russian site... i can understand very little...00:32
maddlerJaffa: indeed...00:33
maddlerwe'll se how it will evolve...00:33
dwdlucaspirolla: Try
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guerbygrr N800 stuck again by
guerbybattery remove...00:34
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dwdlucaspirolla: I'm not sure how detailed they get, there, though.00:34
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maddlerJaffa: checkin out r10000:38
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lucaspirolladwd: sure it's not too detailed :(00:38
maddlerbtw... I'm testing mud on Bora environment...00:38
Jaffamaddler: :)00:39
* Jaffa 's about to check in r101, but it'll only feature TODO updates based on keesj's latest email.00:39
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c0ffeeJaffa, can you build packages for 2.2 and 3.0 in the same scratchbox with mud?00:39
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Jaffac0ffee: yes, but you'd need multiple targets (and obviously sources which compiled against the different API versions)00:40
maddlersvn decided not to download...00:40
c0ffeethis blog entry suggests that it is possible to install a 2.x target in the current scratchbox00:41
hapwhy does my N800 disconnect my ssh session after a while ?00:41
c0ffeetrying that right now, but it takes ages to download stuff :/00:41
MacSlowI'm still trying to get of cairo (git upstream) working but it fails early on with
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MacSlowwhere do I get the needed m4 files from... or whatever else seems to be missing there?00:42
tzzhap: why are you sure the N800 is disconnecting the session?00:42
tzzhap: your firewall or router is much more likely to reap connections00:42
haptzz: it doesn't. if I start a webpage on the nokia, my ssh works again00:42
hapsame session, don't have to reconnect00:43
Takanybody have ideas for the layout of a screen control applet?00:43
haptzz: my ssh doesn't disconnect, it hangs, if I do something from the nokia, then the ssh is back00:43
tzzhap: so it's not disconnected then?00:43
maddlerdamn... networking is not *not*working from inside scratchbox...00:43
maddlercan't svn co00:43
maddlernor wget...00:43
hapwell my PC -> nokia doesn't do anything, i have to "wake up" the nokia, going on internet, and it works back.00:44
c0ffeedoes /etc/resolv.conf look reasonable, maddler ?00:44
haptzz: i have the same network setting to connect through ssh to my powerbook, and it doesn't do it00:44
hapit's not my router for sure00:44
tzzhap: I wouldn't bet it's not your router.00:44
maddlerc0ffee: yep...00:45
haptzz: well i have the same network settings on my powerbook, not a single problem.00:45
tzzhap: run something that updates continuously on the server, to the N800 is getting screen updates.  top will work.00:45
haptzz: i can not establish a new ssh when it hangs00:45
c0ffeemaddler, get strace and see why it fails then :)00:45
haphmm yeah00:45
tzz"server, SO the"00:46
c0ffeeOS 2007 "hacker edition" for 77000:46
tzzhap: if the session is kept alive, I need to know if you still get disconnected00:46
hapok let me try with top00:47
hapi ll see within few minutes00:47
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*** c0ffee changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at | EU discount codes are out, US comes today, for 2nd wave apply to |"00:49
*** Tak changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at | EU discount codes are out, US comes "soon," for 2nd wave apply to |"00:50
maddlerisn't /etc/resolv.conf in a target supposed to be = to /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf?00:50
tzzmaddler: not automatically, I had to copy mine.00:51
maddlertzz: ehehe... just discovered... :D00:51
waitetak, way to kill the suspense!00:51
inzmaddler, sb-conf in -e00:51
c0ffeeTak, i realized that the second i changed the topic :) i just didn't want to change it twice within a second00:51
maddlerbut I assumed that modifing /etc/resolv.conf from *inside* scratchbox target was ok...00:51
inzmaddler, i.e. sb-config install --etc00:52
Takno problem - I'm always happy to help annoy :-)00:52
Takwaite: I think the suspense died sometime yesterday...00:52
waiteAt least now I can stop doing TZ coversions in my head.00:52
waiteI know :)00:52
inzlet's all migrate to internet time00:52
Takwhat is finland, gmt+?00:53
TakI'd be fine with going 100% utc, no dst00:53
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inzUTC+2 in the winter and +3 in the summer00:53
waitedst is just confusing00:53
inztrue dat00:53
TakI can't believe they voted to *extend* dst in the us00:53
waitebut just like in fizicks momentum is hard to stop00:54
MacSlowcan someone point me to some info to get cairo compile under scratchbox?00:54
tzzinz: my company uses UTC for everything, it's great.  We have offices in every timezone.00:54
waiteI'd op for metric before DST00:54
tzzevery populated timezone, I should say.00:54
waitemertic conversion that in the US that is00:55
inz*phew*, i though for a while I had b0rked by DVD+/-RW drive (dropped it at school) -- fortunately it was just a case of b0rked media00:55
inzOr then the drop b0rked DVD+R ;)00:56
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maddlerdamn!!! he was fast! :D00:57
inz(s)he popped in to see the minute chage00:57
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inznah, my theory was wrong00:58
maddlerJaffa: no way... mut is not working...00:59
c0ffeeit's the (in)famous joinpart mIRC script00:59
inzshould really go to sleep, need to be @0615 UTC on a lecture01:00
c0ffeelectures are more fun when you're half asleep01:01
c0ffeeesp. if you are the lecturer01:01
inzc0ffee, I'm already half asleep01:01
inzAnd 6 hours is going to +=2 my "sleepdebt"01:02
|tbb|is it possible to change the background color of the bootsequenz from white to black?01:03
lardmanDrat, 770 doesn't handle illegal instruction errors01:03
inz|tbb|, at some stage probably yes01:03
inz|tbb|, in the very beginning it's done by some low-level firmwarethingmabob01:04
c0ffeelardman, that would have made it too easy to run 800 binaries on the 770 :)01:04
lardmanc0ffee: Indeed. I'm sure it would be possible, just depends how much work01:04
lardmanc0ffee: Though trapping and handling armv6 instructions too would add even more work01:05
|tbb|inz: u mean the first pop up is changeable :)01:05
c0ffeewe'd need a jit compiler01:05
lardmanc0ffee: Depends on what the actual changes are between the instruction sets - I've been able to run armv5 on armv4 processors without issues01:05
lardmanc0ffee: JIT is an option01:06
c0ffeea coworker of mine wrote the qemu for gumstix port, maybe he knows01:06
c0ffeei'll ask him tommorow01:06
lardmanc0ffee: Might be interesting01:06
lardmanI wonder how QEmu handles vfp, whether it passes it onto its own fp unit, or emulates it all in software?01:09
lardmanah-ha, a software emulator:
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MacSlowargl... so much for librsvg on maemo 2.101:16
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Jaffamaddler: doesn't work how? (and have you seen the new vim package I added - it's full vim, not cut down, though)01:28
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maddlerJaffa: killed that... I;m not in right mood to solve *more* problems tonight... :)01:31
Jaffamaddler: I can imagine! :-(01:31
* maddler 's drinking some good cold beer...01:31
maddlertomorrow morning I'm going to call nokia...01:32
Jaffamaddler: Quite right01:32
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maddlerBarry Lyndon sountrack rules!01:38
lardmanI assume dspgateway 3.3.1 is used on the N800, while 3.3 is used on the 770. I wonder if the os2007on770 issue is to do with the mailbox interface having been removed from the DSP driver01:40
lardmanaccording to the dspgateway changelog page:
lardmanWould certainly stop it from bothering to do anything by way of communications01:41
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Jaffalardman: comms might be important to its workingness.01:42
JaffaThe thing which really bugs me about os2007on770 is that it's still dependent on Nokia AFAICS, unless the patches and going to be in the garage svn01:42
lardmanIt was interesting to see that things like the kernel config needed to be changed from the released versions01:43
lardmanplus a variety of other patches01:43
Jaffa"interesting"'s one word for it.01:43
JaffaPoor release management, and barely GPL compliant would be others :-/01:44
sxpertsounds like mplayer :D01:44
lardmanI wonder how to fix the dsp? dspgateway is in the kernel, so the newer kernel would need to be back-patched to remove the changes so it can still talk to the binary dsp stuff01:44
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jaekuh, evince wont install... it complains that libglade is unavailable01:47
Jaffajaek: do you have the maemo repository added?01:48
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jaekwhich one is that?01:48
maddlerJaffa: being completely independent from nokia could be somehow interesting...01:48
Jaffamaddler: could be *very* interesting01:48
Jaffajaek: the one with libglade in ;-)01:48
jaekyeah, well if i knew which one had libglade i wouldnt be asking which one01:49
lardmannight night everyone01:49
Jaffamaddler: you seen - my sick hack of an entire Maemo package, application and source code in one mud package xml file01:49
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Jaffajaek: I was joking - I'm just finding the details01:49
maddlerlemme give it a look01:49
Jaffamaddler: is quite informative in the minimum source requirements for mud to build a deb, though01:50
jaekJaffa, lol... /sigh01:50
maddleryep... that's what I was writing...01:51
maddlerbut... hmmm...01:51
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maddleris mud able to track filesystem changes?01:51
jaekmaybe someone should write in the wiki in the evince section about this...01:51
maddleryou know... a la checkinstall...01:51
Jaffamaddler: at which point?01:51
* Jaffa would, of course, have been better off using a patch for the .c file and Makefile, but that's not the point of the demo.01:52
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maddlerin the helloworld.xml at some point you have the install: stuff in Makefile...01:57
maddleryup... I was only wondering on how advanced and great and complete is mud... :D01:57
JaffaSo the question is if you could lose the "install:" target and have it notice that before building there were n items, after building n+1 and it's executable therefore should go in /usr/bin?01:58
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anothy_xit looks to me like there's currently no N800 flasher for OS X; is that right?02:05
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Jaffaanothy_x: correct, although someone reported my GUI wrapper and the command line actually worked for them.02:06
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anothy_xwhat, the 2.0 command line version for the 770?02:07
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Jaffaanothy_x: yeah02:08
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anothy_xhuh. makes me a bit nervous, but i guess as the device is inoperable now, it's not likely to make the situation worse.02:09
JaffaWorst that'll happen is that it won't work, I don't think it'd end up a brick02:11
anothy_xwell, it's already half-bricked (looping Nokia logo, no boot).02:11
Jaffaflasher-2.0 should be able to remove the lifeguard reset02:13
JaffaWithout reflashing everything. What did you do to cause the loop?02:13 RSS feed?02:13
JaffaWhatever it is, it should go into so Nokia can fix it.02:13
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anothy_xdevice was working fine. i realized i had set the date wrong (2006 instead of 2007) corrected that, which seemed to work. i then clicked on one of the weather widgets (i get the two on the app library confused; the one with multiple cities possible), and it immediately rebooted and was in a loop.02:14
anothy_xnot sure what in that process actually caused the failure.02:15
JaffaOne of the weather applets caused serious breakage in the past.02:15
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anothy_xdoesn't speak well of the device that a purely user-mode program can trash it like this.02:16
anothy_xanyway... off re-learning the command line well enough to reset the lifeguard.02:17
anothy_xhuh. does sticking it in R&D mode do that implicitly?02:20
maddlerdamn... wasn't considering... mutt needs an MTA...02:22
anothy_xis there a list of "safe" repositories for the 880/IT2007 anywhere?02:22
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maddlerbetter to find a minimalistic solution to this...02:22
maddleror to change aproach?02:23
anothy_xokay, i can confirm that your packaged 770 flasher works for the n800, at least for setting R&D mode and transfering new kernels. i have a working (if blank) device again. much thanks!02:24
tzzafter programming Perl and Java and Lisp for a while, C/GTK is a real shock to me (it's been 15 years since I touched C).  Doing simple things takes 20-100 lines of code.  I can't say I like it at all.02:24
tzzI'll definitely be doing Python if I decide to develop anything from scratch for Maemo.02:25
Jaffatzz: I know what you mean. Could be worse, could be C++ ;-)02:25
Jaffamaddler: a mini MTA shouldn't be hard. Doesn't mutt have a smarthost mode?02:26
maddlerdon't know... found a mice .py script btw...02:26
maddlerchecking it now...02:26
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maddlerhmmm... maybe something ther could be a solution using socat as well...02:31
tzzJaffa: I've spent 8-10 hours now on the stupid keyboard popup.  Very frustrating.  I will probably work on MUD contributions next, to clear my palate.  C/GTK leaves a nasty metallic taste in my mouth.  Perl is like Toblerone.02:31
tzzgood night everyone...02:31
maddlerI think mutt needs to invoke a "delivery" command... cant' directly connect to somehost:2502:31
maddlerbye tzz02:32
maddleryess!!! it worked using the .py minimalistic mta...02:33
maddlerbut.... hmmm... that requires to install python and friends...02:33
JaffaPython on Maemo's not too bad as a dependency02:35
JaffaIncreasingly used, after all02:35
JaffaRight, I'm off to bed. Some mud hacking on the train has left me saited, so now I need sleep.02:35
JaffaEspecially since the in-laws are here tomorrow when I'll be shouting at UPS to deliver my N80002:36
maddlergood luck my friend!!!02:36
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minralol @ tzz02:42
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gpdis there somewhere on the wiki to report spam? i am not seeing it03:08
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* gpd plays in the MUD03:17
gpdanyone got suggestions for console packages not yet available? the wishlist seems a bit outdated03:18
gpdjust built mtr-tiny - which if works could be useful03:19
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gpdcowsay... obviously03:21
gpdwas about to say figlet -- for 'shaboom' action :)03:22
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gpdlooking at what I have on my virtual server --- host, diff, jhead, lftp, mcrypt, nmap, less, rsync, recode, remind, subversion, unison (done), wget (done), ccze, exiv2, file (done), dstat03:33
gpdyup - that too03:38
minrathat's a nice* toolset03:38
minrayour list03:38
gpdi'll let you know how they build with the MUD-builder03:39
minrai can't think of *good* additions03:39
MacSlowhow do I get a broken .deb (dropbear-client) removed from the 770?03:41
MacSlowbtw... I don't have a root acount on it yet.03:41
robtaylorMacSlow: dpkg --purge <package>03:43
robtaylorand you'll need root03:44
MacSlowsomehow I knew that I'm busted :)03:44
robtaylorconenct up usb, ./flasher --enable-rd-mode03:44
* minra tries to think of a use for figlet03:44
MacSlowbut the rd-mode is not 'recommended"03:45
robtaylorMacSlow: if you're a developer, you want rdmode03:45
MacSlowhm... not rebooting03:50
AaronL2robtaylor:  you don't need that anymore to become root03:51
AaronL2there are easier ways03:51
AaronL2if you install openssh03:51
AaronL2you can login as root easily03:52
AaronL2assuming that you are on the latest OS for the 770, that is03:52
AaronL2well, a 2.x OS03:52
AaronL2you can enable red-pill mode to install openssh03:52
AaronL2it's all on the wiki03:52
Pioi think openssh disables root login by default03:52
AaronL2I don't think so03:52
AaronL2it's all on the wiki :-)03:53
AaronL2you can login as user03:53
Pioi've done the dropbear way and becomeroot.. i like becomeroot03:53
Pioyeah.. but it doesnt get you root03:53
AaronL2I prefer openssh because it gives you sftp03:53
Pioyeah me too03:53
AaronL2I'm pretty sure i got root that way03:53
Piothats why i like becomeroot03:53
AaronL2using openssh03:53
Piohuh, *shrug*03:53
AaronL2but, it's been a while, I definitely can ssh in as root03:53
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Piohmm i can login as root too03:54
Piowell maybe whoever told me openssh doesnt allow root logins by default was just plain wrong :)03:54
Pioi know it doesnt in your typical linux box, but i guess not here03:55
AaronL2was it the little voice in your head? :-P03:55
Pioi can find it in my logs :)03:55
robtaylorAaronL2: i just become root and apt-get install openssh-server03:55
PioFreeNode-#maemo.log:Jan 08 15:25:21 <Aleksandyr>        Pio: openssh by default blocks remote root login: gotta tweak a config file.03:55
AaronL2robtaylor: no, you enable red-pill mode to install openssh03:56
robtayloreasier than piddling around with the application installer03:56
AaronL2which starts sshd03:56
AaronL2red pill mode is something in the application installer03:56
AaronL2you annot use apt-get install unless you are root03:56
AaronL2if you are root03:56
AaronL2well, that might work03:56
robtaylorcall me old schol03:56
AaronL2well, if you already have root03:56
AaronL2then it should be no problem to remove the bad dropbear package03:57
robtaylorAaronL2: it was MacSlow who was having the problems03:57
AaronL2ah, right ;-)03:57
AaronL2I'm not sure if the package is named openssh-server03:57
AaronL2it might be just openssh, which gets you everything03:58
* robtaylor lets AaronL2 do an apt-cache search03:58
AaronL2sorry, my 770 isn't handy at the moment :-)03:59
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MacSlowoh "great"04:00
MacSlowdpkg --purge dropbear-client04:01
MacSlow[: ==: unkown operand04:01
MacSlowsubprocess pre-removal script killed by signa (Segmentation fault)04:01
robtaylordpkg -r dropbear-client ?04:02
MacSlowsame arror04:02
MacSlowcompletely flash it again... the windows-way (just reinstall everything)04:03
robtaylorMacSlow: might be needed. How did it get in this state?04:03
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MacSlowrobtaylor, I just installed the two dropbear .debs from the web04:05
MacSlowsever went clean client was hosed04:05
MacSlowmy super nice DI playlist will be wiped *sigh*04:06
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robtaylorbackup /home/user/04:06
robtaylor(including hidden directories)04:06
MacSlowbtw... will I have to disable teh RD mode before reflashing ?04:07
robtaylorMacSlow: nope04:07
MacSlowso the card "behind" /media/mmc1 will not be touched by re reflashing?04:12
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konfooanyone here aware of any card reader hardware failures?04:24
konfoothe first 800 i purchased wouldn't read a 4gb card without corrupting it (known to work). i returned it for another one and the same issue. i noticed the mac address differs by 4-5 digits in the last octet. bad production line batch?04:25
vittoriokonfoo, afaik only few 4gb cards are kown to work. what card do you have?04:27
soleblazeyeah, only non-spec 4gb cards work04:27
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konfooone that supposedly has been verified to work - transcend 150x sd(non hc)04:27
soleblazesupposedly.  I've also heard some cards don't go past 2gb04:27
soleblazeeven if they're 404:27
konfooi saw the same for 8gb (wont go past 4)04:28
vittoriothe transcend card worked for thoughtfix04:28
konfooyeah and other people04:28
vittoriothats strange :/04:28
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jacquesthere are 8GB non-SDHC cards?04:29
anothy_lightwhat can i tell gaim to get it to open links?04:29
konfoowhen i init it with swap it dies. dosfsck under linux reports the card header sector is corrupted04:29
vittorioand without using it for swap?04:30
konfoosame thing04:30
konfooeven attempting to format it corrupts it04:30
konfooand/or the card goes into a 0 bytes free spaz04:31
vittoriointernal or external prot?04:31
konfoono difference04:31
konfootried the new os update, and the sdhc supported kernel on both the old and the new 80004:31
konfoothey all do exactly the same thing to the card04:31
konfooworks fine in every other device i have (camera, garmin, 3 pc card readers (old and new))04:32
vittoriois it possible to read the HW version in /proc or /sys. afaik there was a file in 77004:33
konfoothats my next step (and dmesg, etc)04:33
konfoovery odd problem here04:33
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vittorioi have R&D enabled and on boot it says "hw-build 1301"04:37
konfoosame here04:38
konfoomy other sd cards work fine04:38
* konfoo shakes fist04:38
konfoowell, i pinged the listserv, lets see what happens ;)04:40
* vittorio shakes fist too (about to buy 4GB card)04:43
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Takthe new xterm fucking ROCKS!05:06
jacqueswhat's better?05:13
Taka bar of built-in control sequences05:16
Takperfect for screen05:16
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soleblazeno ctrl c..but a plain ctrl button05:25 is rather useable05:25
soleblazeI gotta get bash or zsh on there.05:25
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Takhmm...this metal slug rom is b0rk05:49
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Takand this one05:58
* Tak gives up05:58
gpdTak: which xterm do you refer to?05:58
Taklatest osso-xterm05:59
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darkstryi need help!!!05:59
darkstrycan someone help me???06:00
gpddarkstry: just ask06:00
TakI took a look at the bora fceu code; the buttons should work as-is06:00
darkstryhow do i install maemo?06:00
darkstryi want to install gaim06:00
darkstryon my n80006:01
Taktry pressing different parts of the screen and see if they're offset?06:01
gpdTak:  osso-xterm (0.13.mh18bora1 maemo-hackers:maemo3.0) ??06:02
gpdTak: i'll try the buttons in a sec06:02
darkstryhey gpd can u give me better instructions06:03
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gpdJaffa: just trying mud with mixed success: failed so far: exiv2, dstat, remind, lftp.  worked so far: jhead, bash, mtr-tiny.06:04
Takyeah, that one06:04
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gpddarkstry: do you have ssh/xterm available?06:05
darkstryanyone ??06:05
darkstryhow do i install maemo?06:05
darkstrystep by step please06:05
darkstryim so lost06:05
darkstrytak is that to me?06:07
Takgpd: no hurry @ buttons06:07
Takdarkstry: yes06:07
gpdTak: running NES Bubble Bobble now from xmaeme06:07
gpdTak: pressed fullscreen button twice, game loaded.06:08
gpdTak: pressing anywhere on screen with finger or stylus has no effect06:08
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Taknot even save/load?06:09
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anothy_xanyone know of anyone having the camera do anything but the built-in chat app on the N800? is there documentation on that hardware?06:19
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minrais there a log of this channel somewhere?  seems i remember someone taking pics with it06:24
anothy_xthere is a log somewhere, yes; i was reading it the other day.06:25
anothy_xi didn't see anything on this, but i'll re-scan. any other context?06:25
pahartikminra: "/topic"06:25
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gpdTak: nope - any ROMs you know it works with that I can test?06:27
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Takbubble bobble works06:32
gpdTak: how else can i test it? I get no response to any taps or touches :(06:33
* Tak kicks thumbboard06:35
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Taklet me make a package with some debug output06:36
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AaronL2minra:  log can be found at the maemo wiki06:48
AaronL2there is a link on the main page06:48
minraok ty06:50
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minrareduces tendencies toward idle chatter06:52
darkstrycan anyone use GAIM on their n800?06:52
darkstryhow do u find the msn protocol?06:54
anothy_xi don't use msn, but it's listed in the protocol set, just like all the other protocol modules.06:55
Takhe's getting an error connecting06:56
darkstrycan i have th elink?06:56
darkstryto that?06:56
anothy_xgpd gave you the link to the Tested Applications page; the repository to use is in there. have you tried that?06:57
Takdarkstry: wasn't it in the application list?06:58
darkstryi have it downloaded06:58
darkstrybut still doesnt work :S06:59
anothy_xcan you be more specific?06:59
Takboth maemo-gaim and the msn protocol package ?06:59
darkstryi have them both downloaded07:00
darkstryand it doesnt allow me to sign in07:00
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darkstryi installed gaim first.. then the protocol07:01
darkstrythen i try clicking sign in07:01
darkstryand it doesnt work07:01
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darkstryill install them again07:02
darkstrycan also anyone tell me why07:03
darkstrywhen i plug my n800 to the computer07:03
darkstrywhy it says07:03
darkstrynokia is not able to transfer stuff07:03
darkstrythe setting says its in UI MODE07:03
bmidgleyany US discount codes showing up for anyone?07:04
gpddid you get that it is Save, Load, B, A07:07
gpdTak: middle of each button - i can do edges if you need07:08
Takthat's odd07:08
Takno, those are very informative07:08
Takit looks like X is dropping into 400x240 res07:09
darkstrymy n800 just restarted07:10
keesjand the 448 is not a typo?07:10
darkstryhey tak, do u know why i cant read stuff on my n800 using my computer07:10
Takkeesj:  that's queried from SDL07:12
Takdarkstry: not immediately07:12
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Takbmidgely: not yet for me07:16
* gpd plays sauna -- has no clue what to do07:19
keesjI don't know either, I have ported sauna to mud builder yesterday btw07:20
* Tak builds another debug package 07:20
keesjThe guy is willing to translate the game07:20
gpdyes that is why i mentioned07:20
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keesjdid it build static?07:21
gpd dpkg -i sauna_0.1.0-1_armel.deb07:21
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gpdGot button B press07:23
gpdMouseData: 352 75 107:23
gpdGot button A press07:23
gpdTak: sweet -- i can now blow bubbles and jump :D07:23
Takok, are the buttons having effects in-game now?07:23
gpdyes - all loooks good -- of course super slow in debug07:24
Takhow about save/load?07:24
gpdMouseData: 27 40 107:24
gpdGot button Save press07:24
gpdMouseData: 29 93 107:24
gpdGot button Load press07:24
gpdbut: State 0 save error. and State 0 load error.07:24
Takyeah, I'll build a non-debug package now07:25
Takhmm, ok07:25
gpdbut i get that with the 'zoom' buttons too (state errors)07:25
Takyeah, I think I know about that one07:26
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gpdJaffa: mcrypt from debian also build and works07:28
darkstryis there another internet explorer u can use on the n800?07:30
gpddarkstry: 'another browser' - please :)07:31
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gpddarkstry: minimo is another browser - but not tested myself07:32
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pahartikdarkstry: try to avoid offensive language07:33
darkstryyea when i go on gaim07:34
darkstryit says i can check my email07:34
darkstrybut there's no browser to select07:34
darkstryso i cant open my email lol07:34
darkstrywhat is the max gig u can have on the n800?07:35
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darkstry2 4 gig cards?07:35
gpdfor now - yes07:35
darkstryok cause iw as gonna order a 2 gig mini sd07:35
darkstrybut if i ordered just regular sd07:35
darkstrythats fine too right?07:35
gpdyes - as long as it is not SDHC you should be ok07:36
darkstrythere's a better player here too right?07:37
darkstrylike so there is no choppiness07:38
darkstryin videos07:38
gpddepends on the video07:38
darkstrywhat about youtube07:42
darkstryno good there?07:42
gpdwe await new version of flash i suspect07:43
darkstryhey gpd07:44
darkstryis there any othe way to use the videocam on the n800?07:44
darkstryor only on googletalk?07:44
gpdnot sure on the latest: check
darkstrycan you use skype on the n800 yet?07:45
gpdnot yet - but gizmoproject is available07:46
darkstrywhats the gizmoproject?07:46
gpddarkstry: the occasional bit of thought on your part would be helpful :)
keesjgpd, did you build sanau using mud for the n800?07:49
gpdkeesj: yes07:49
keesjcool !07:49
gpdjust built a bunch of stuff using MUD - not all successful - but some07:50
gpdtrying "Day of the Tentacle" on scummvm now :)07:50
gpdhowever, this version has 260M sound file :(07:50
darkstrygpd: i downloaded a .deb file on my computer07:51
darkstryhow do i transfer it to nokia n80007:51
gpddarkstry: it is easier for gizmo - if you just click on the deb file within the N800 browser07:52
gpdit will prompt you to install it07:52
keesjgpd, feel free to share you experience (also the bad ones). it is very motivating07:52
darkstrythank you07:52
pahartikdarkstry: "scp" of OpenSSH07:53
eeejayi didn't realize google talk has video, or is it just a n800 feature for now?07:53
gpdkeesj: with MUD?  so far good experiences - i think i need to find a way to get it to grab stable rather than unstable packages.  For example, it wanted debhelper > 507:53
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gpdeeejay: the jabber protocol supports video - but i couldn't find any Linux or Mac clients that did - only Windows (and not gtalk!)07:54
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gpdkeesj: success so far are mcrypt, mtr-tiny07:55
darkstryscp of openssh?? i dony understand pahartik07:55
Taknew fceu on garage07:55
gpdkeesj: failed to build from simplest debian xml file: ccze, exiv2, lftp, remind, dstat, less, nmap, subversion07:55
Takawaiting extras import07:55
Tak(for bora)07:55
pahartikdarkstry: it is usual tool to copy files between workstations or servers07:56
gpdkeesj: failed to install - jhead (missing libjpeg-progs),  diff (clash with busybox)07:56
jacquessigh, xchat moved ignore07:56
gpdkeesj: not tried to install but compiles: bash, bind9-host, dnsutils,07:57
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keesjgpd, yes the deb fetch target must perform some more magic.07:58
gpdcrap -- after all that -  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/nslookup', which is also in package busybox08:01
* gpd runs out of console apps to try with MUD08:04
keesjI sometimes also have deps on lsb-base08:05
gpdthis one keeps coming up too:08:06
gpdUnable to install libmodule-build-perl08:06
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keesjI will try to summarize this. but first I walk the dog08:09
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darkstrycan anyone get maemoblocks to work with the n800?09:14
keesjthe sdk 3.0 install is pretty confusing do I only need to download the installer? do i have to install scratchbox?09:15
c0ffeefirst download scratchbox09:15
c0ffeethen run the install, it will only install the devkits09:15
kulveA bit OT: How do I parse data from pcap with wlan datalink? Is there some additional header in top of (or instead of) ethernet? Any pointers for documents describing this?09:15
kulvedarkstry: the maemo blocks that comes with the device? Sure, it works ok here..09:17
darkstrykulve, it doesnt come with it09:22
darkstrythe n80009:22
kulvewell, my device had maemo blocks..09:23
cambbadarkstry: sure it does09:23
darkstrywhere the hell would it be?09:23
darkstryunder games?09:24
suihkulokkidarkstry: it's even mentioned in the fine manual09:24
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darkstryooh shiet09:25
darkstrymy bad09:25
darkstryok can anyone help me out with this question09:26
darkstrywhen i plug the usb cord in my computer09:26
darkstryit says that it cannot transfer anything09:26
darkstryturn off transfer mode09:27
darkstrythen try again09:27
kulvedarkstry: do you have an MMC card inserted?09:27
darkstryon pc nokia suite09:27
kulveuse the n800 like you would use any USB memory stick09:27
kulveit's not a phone, don't use pc suite with n80009:27
darkstryso just take out the memory card if i need to transfer something to computer?09:28
kulvethe nokia pc suite actually does recognise n800 but you must not use them together09:28
kulveyou need to have the mmc inserted as the n800 will show the mmc on your pc when you plug in the cable09:28
kulvei.e. it will not show e.g. you MyDocs folder09:28
darkstryit says09:29
darkstrynokia n800 is connected in non-compatible mode09:30
kulveI think your pc suite is now interfering with that..09:30
darkstryit says the same thing with the n77009:30
kulveI think there were some option in the pc suite to ignore the n800 (I can remember this wrong though..)09:30
darkstrydoes the mplayer work good?09:31
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kulvedarkstry: I'm still waiting for someone to make a good version of it for n800 :)09:32
kulvedunno if that actually exists already..09:32
darkstrycan i use the videocam with msn?09:33
darkstryor should i say gaim09:33
darkstryor only googletalk can use that09:33
kulvedarkstry: I think the gaim/msn supports only text09:33
darkstryso google talk can only use that feature?09:35
kulveit's a standard web camera in linux, but I think there's no apps for it yet. But I'm sure there will be some day09:36
kulveso now you can only use the google talk stuff09:38
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keesjjust added xmoto in mud (there is still some work to do)09:40
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Jaffagpd: would be very interested in your experiences on the mud-builder-users mailing list.09:41
darkstrywho has the nes emulator???09:42
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darkstrymplayer dont work too well09:46
darkstryits all green on mine09:46
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keesjdo I need to install 1.0.6 or 1.0.7 I don't see a 1.0.7 debian devkit09:55
kulvenewest one seems to be 1.0.609:56
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hapTak: which new version of xterm?10:03
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zuhhmmh, is the wiki dead for others too?10:07
Veggenwhen does the mud packages start to appear?10:08
Veggen...or, if they already have, what is the repository? ;)10:08 down?10:08
zuhThe front page works, but wiki doesn't10:09
zuh...or maybe it was from a cache10:10
Jaffaplanet seems to be down too10:10
jtokashwiki seems to have come back to life10:13
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keesjI am writing all this down , but... the Gnu- toolchain is the same than in maemo 2.X ..???10:17
keesjwhat do I need to download from
kulveyep, same toolchain10:18
keesjI have installed the previous version using the nokia installer I don't know all that stuff10:18
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keesjOk found it cs2005q3.2-glibc10:25
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zbenjaminhello @ all10:26
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Jaffakeesj: I've got a plan for fixing Debian fetches - if you specify a <depends> in the <fetch> that'll override the build depends in the package info (e.g. if you override configure switches so that certain things aren't needed etc.)10:43
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keesjJaffa, and perhaps a flag to dump the existing debian directory?10:45
Jaffalike a cut down version of `mud get' ?10:45
keesjI needed that for sauna10:45
keesjand cvs target and mud get /compile have a problem because some installations will copy the .svn or CVS dirs10:46
keesjhm I must run export of course!10:47
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keesjand we need some example of installing a menu entry,10:48
keesjJaffa, I like to first try "any way it goes" and after that make it nicer10:48
keesjwe can now perhaps remove the icon from the mud.xml because of the icon directory10:49
JaffaWell, depends whether or not there's a decent icon somewhere already. Makes sense to get it from upstream if possible: then if they redesign their icon it's up-to-date already.10:50
keesjI am currently looking how the tuxpaint author and the original porter are reacting to mud10:52
keesjI find it really difficult, it would help if we had a policy, credits thing so I can mail10:53
keesj"We are happy to announce you that your wonderful port has been elected..."10:54
hap - this is soo true and i so much agree with it10:57
hap(and i had my n800 for 2 days)10:57
Juhazparts of it are. mostly it's just a stupid flamebait11:00
Juhaznot entirely sure if I should cry or laugh when he blames gtk+ for nokias design decisions11:00
hapwell i agree with most of it11:01
hapin 2 days i had most of the trouble he lists11:03
hapnot being able to copy files in the filemanagers and just moving them11:03
hap(i used copy/paste from the editing menu, but what a pain)11:03
Fatalthat's an impressive document11:04
Fataland should be valued11:04
Fataland not discarded as trolling11:05
hapwell i'd say it lists all the troubles problems and thoughts i had using the n800 for 2 days11:05
hapso yeah it's valuable11:05
Juhazit he doesn't want to be discarded as trolling maybe he should separate the freaking trolling from it11:06
Fatalhe didn't troll11:06
Juhazyes, he did.11:06
haphe didn't :)11:06
Fatalyou however exhibit perfect fanboyism, covering your eyes and ears and going "lalalalallalalal"11:07
Juhazjust because there are valid arguments in there doesn't mean it's not trolling. it's obviously intended to be inflammatory11:07
hapi don't think so, it's not intended to be.11:07
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Fatalis it the fact that newton is old that you think it's an inflammatory article?11:07
[mbm]article above makes a number of good points .. very hard to take notes on an n80011:08
hap"This goes along with the need for changable Icon bar icons. I don't want to have to wend my way through a menu to find an application to launch. I want to have it right there on my Icon bar, launched in one tap. Why can't I do this? "11:08
hap^^ so true11:08
JuhazFatal, no. it's the tone, and language, and unbased accusations11:08
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[mbm]still waiting for a proper standby mode on the n80011:09
hap[mbm]: yeah, i don't understand i can't do that. Shall I just turn the N800 off when i don't use it ?11:10
hap[mbm]: i left it turned on this night, to see, battery was empty this morning11:10
[mbm]I've been using the lock screen and keys, then waiting for the display to dim before putting it away11:10
hapso i guess i shouldn't leave it turned on11:10
[mbm]been finding that it doesn't stay in that mode11:10
[mbm]and that occasionally I turn it on to an almost dead battery11:11
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[mbm]so I started just turning it off completely11:11
[mbm]but then I get annoyed at how long it takes to boot and load apps back11:11
[mbm]I just want a "save state; turn off"11:11
[mbm]thought I could do that via the commandline and figured out what sort of works11:12
[mbm]where I could put it into a low power sleep .. then I found that if I leave it in that mode too long it just reboots or shuts off11:12
hapisn't anyone who worked on another GUI that fixes thoses problems ?11:13
wumpus[mbm]: maybe the watchdog timer kicks in or something11:13
hapto be able to drag & drop a little more, change icons, smaller left menu bar, etc11:13
[mbm]wumpus: sort of what I thought but then I went into r&d and turned off all the watchdogs via r&d flags and it still did it11:14
[mbm]wumpus: I can put it into a real standby mode for 30 seconds but more than that and it tends not to come out properly11:14
[mbm]always acts as if I just turned it on11:15
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hapthe hardware behind the n800 is soo great, i don't get the fact than the software isn't as good as i would have expected.11:15
mitchelochola, how would i install this to the n800?
* [mbm] notes that the idle standby doesn't seem to reduce the power drain much beyond dimming the screen11:15
wumpushap: well it's an open source platform11:15
hapwumpus: well my question is "has anyone worked on it"11:16
[mbm]hap: I suspect that will quickly improve; the n800 has only been available for a few weeks so not all the usability issues have been addressed11:16
hapbeing opensource doesn't mean _you_ have time to improve it. You just expect something to reach a certain quality level when such a company as Nokia is behind.11:16
hap[mbm]: i agree.11:16
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[mbm]I write embeded linux firmwares; I'd say nokia did a damn good job with the initial release11:17
hapmbm: and i'll just wait :) but i feel like certain points are more like a "decision issue". Like the left menubar, etc.11:17
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[mbm]hap: what's wrong with the menubar?11:17
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mitcheloci agree with hap the  firmware definitely needs some help11:18
hapi'd like to be able to easily change icons on the left menu bars, i'd like to be able to drap & drop applications on the left to reach them via a single click11:18
mitchelocthe menu pop outs should take up the full screen, not pop-out, they are too small for a device like this11:18
hapinstead of having to go to the windows like menu11:18
[mbm]mitcheloc: tap the app menu with your finger; you get a larger version then you do if you use the pen11:18
hapand i'd like a more icons like menu, like the palm or the iPhone interface i've seen online, and not a menu.11:18
dwdhap: I'd like to have a clipboard manager drop-zone on the LHS, for simple copy/paste between apps.11:18
hapdwd so would I11:19
dwdhap: I think that latter would be addressed by a drag/drop editable hotlist as you suggested.11:19
hapdrag&drop text I've selected to the clipboard manager11:19
[mbm]as for the icons, they're probably just png files on the filesystem .. not too hard to swap but not intuitive11:19
mitcheloc[mbm]: i know of that featuer, i still think it should be full sized at all times... yes more like an ipod menu :)11:20
hapis there an online wishlist ? or shall I write a new wiki page ? :]11:20
mitchelocand no i'm not an ipod fanboy, but the ui is better11:20
hap[mbm]: yeah, i'm more into something that don't require me a ssh to the device and type commands.11:20
hapmitcheloc: i agree.11:20
[mbm]hap: heh, that's pretty much the very first thing I did when I unpacked mine11:21
hap[mbm]: changing icons?11:21
[mbm]hap: ssh into it and poke at how it works11:21
hapoh yeah, sure hell11:21
haphow come can't I resize the calendar applet for the home.11:22
JaffaJuhaz: however we've had Nokia staff *blaming* Gtk+ for design decisions in the last few days (that's not to say there was a better alternative to produce a timely product, but still...)11:22
mitcheloc[mbm]: while that's fun, i'm eying these to redesign around a crm system i'm building11:22
hapi think it comes from GPE.11:22
Jaffahap: you can now, the resize API's only just been launched and the GPE calendar applet's always been a bit of a bodge anyway11:22
mitchelocthe crm is for schools and i'd like to give one to each teacher, but they are not computer smart11:22
hapJaffa: ah ok.11:22
mitchelocso it needs a simpler interface specifically easier to read11:22
hapJaffa: i can resize some applet, not this one.11:22
hapwell everyone said GPE is the best PIM in this channel when I asked which one to install11:23
hapif you have better, i'm very much interested :)11:23
JaffaThere isn't one11:23
hapJaffa: i don't understand i can't select new appointment the way i do with google cal or ical, being able to select right away the timeline (beginning and) with drag&drop11:24
hapi think i have to click _then_ select the timeline within the modal window, sucks.11:24
[mbm]what I don't like about the article is that it seems to say "the n800 isn't a newton", making it sound as if perfection is just to be a newton11:24
mitchelochow do you install the third party apps? like mplayer11:24
Jaffahap: what don't you understand? It's a different program, with a different UI11:24
Jaffahap: I suggest you submit a feature request on the GPE BugZilla11:24
hapJaffa: well i don't understand because it's not user friendly.11:24
hapJaffa: i will, i'll write down all the things than bothers me, don't worry :)11:24
[mbm]mitcheloc: I'm playing with the idea of putting openwrt on one11:25
hap[mbm]: i think the idea of the article is to address all the negative points, so does he.11:25
hapi'm sure all the good points don't have to be listed.11:25
[mbm]hap: I just wish the article had a better concept, or more examples of a good design other than setting the standard to a 10 year old product11:26
mitchelocmplayer?? :)11:26
hapmitcheloc: i installed mine with apt-get i think, or straight installation11:27
[mbm]mitcheloc: mplay works, surf the maemo wiki, find the mplayer deb file and click; should open the app installer11:27
mitchelocahh through ssh?11:27
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mitcheloc[mbm]: surf it with the n800 right11:27
[mbm]mitcheloc: yeah, that's the easiest way11:27
hapmitcheloc: yeah, or through web browsing, clicking on the .deb11:28
[mbm]mitcheloc: also read the wiki part about app manager's "red pill" mode11:28
zbenjaminwhere is the maemo_af_desktop binary located in the SDK? In /usr/bin there is a file called maemo_af_desktop that is link to /usr/bin/maemo-invoker. Where is the real binary?11:28
hap[mbm]: yeah, well i think he spent a long time on that article already :) but better layout yeah11:28
JuhazJaffa, I'm sure some design decisions were influenced by real gtk limitations, but our mac fanboy makes it sound like each and every of his gripes are because nokia is using inexpertly designed lousy toolkit good for nothing but badly copying win95 - and yet most of the gripes aren't related to toolkit at all.11:28
hap[mbm]: i'd like a rotation mode. N800 vertical, would be great.11:29
inzzbenjamin, the real "binary" is /usr/bin/maemo_af_desktop.launch11:29
inzzbenjamin, but it is actually a shared library -- not a real binary11:29
hapam I the only one to feel the webcam has poor quality, or am I just expecting too much?11:29
mitchelocJuhaz: lol, are you referring to me?11:29
Juhazmitcheloc, no11:29
mitchelochap: i'm with you too on that -- specifically the angle is wrong to use for video conferencing11:30
JaffaJuhaz: I see your point, however think that (unless it's criticising me ;-)) good points should be ignored by inflammatory presentation.11:30
hapmitcheloc: yeah, i can't be in front of the n800, i have to be on the left in front of the webcam11:30
[mbm]hap: I got so sick of how pdas always wnet portrait mode .. sharp sold a zaurus in japan which was basically a clamshell with a keyboard that folds over the screen .. lamdscape mode .. but all their us products used portait mode with a small keyboard fixed to the bottom11:30
hapmitcheloc: _that_ is stupid.11:30
zbenjamininz, i added some debug outputs to maemo_af_desktop and did a dpkg-buildpackage. But i get only a maemo_af_desktop binarie11:30
kjetilhoactually a 180 degree flip mode would be very useful11:30
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kjetilhoyou know -- for the lefthanded11:31
hapwell i think it should be complety movable, like a chewing gum.11:31
zbenjamininz,  how can i use my created binary?11:31
mitchelochap: i figure i can overlook the camera and poor video playback on the device, it has a lot of other strong points11:31
hap[mbm]: zaurus was a mistake to me, i never bought one even my friends had.11:31
wumpusI wonder if they included the 3d acceleration stuff in the omap 2420 of the n80011:32
JuhazJaffa, agreed11:32
zuhzbenjamin: You can copy it over the link (or rather, remove the link and copy your binary to /usr/bin)11:32
Jaffakjetilho: yeah, it's amazing how limiting it is having to swap the stylus/hand when trying to use the d-pad11:32
hapmitcheloc: yeah, it's just than when i saw there was a webcam, i was expecting a little more. when i turned it on and didn't see myself and saw i had to move left...11:32
JaffaDoom, for example, is a no go for lefties :-(11:32
inzzbenjamin, remove the symlink and place your binary over it11:32
[mbm]hap: I always thought the major downfall of the pda was text entry and I was waiting for that model to be available in the us .. never was .. only a much cheaper and ugler one made it11:32
zuhzbenjamin: The link to maemo-invoker is a hack to miminize startup time11:33
kjetilhoanyone know if it is possible to licence Grafitti, btw?11:33
inzzbenjamin, if you don't say "DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=maemo-launcher", the packages should build real binaries11:33
hapyeah, text entry sux. That's why you want icons & drag&drop ;)11:33
zbenjaminzuh, is it the same on the device?11:33
dwdkjetilho: It's certainly possible. How much is another story.11:33
inzzuh, zbenjamin, and allow memory sharing11:33
Jaffakjetilho: Anything's licenceable with appropriate amounts of cash11:33
hapi don't see myself using the xterm much on that device. Using it to run Kismet for example, it takes forever.11:33
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hapssh localhost for root access, then kismet, pffiou11:34
zbenjamininz, zuh thx i will have a look at it11:34
[mbm]there was a pda that had an interesting onscreen keyboard -- two semicircles in the bottom corners of the screen to hit with your thumbs while holding it11:34
Jaffahap: just install the "becomeroot" package and then you can `sudo gainroot' rather than SSH.11:34
[mbm]think it was the ms orgami11:34
hapJaffa: yeah i heard of this one, didn't remember the name, i'll install it11:34
Jaffahap: you could also write a kismet wrapper which invoked it all11:34
hapJaffa: i could :)11:34
hapand put it in the menu, i guess.11:34
jpetersenhi all11:35
Jaffaindeed :)11:35
Jaffahap: consider it the start of your contributions which'll result in a cheap N900 in a year or so ;-)11:35
[mbm]Jaffa: heh, I've already used that so much it's the first thing to autocomplete when you type an s11:35
hapbut i'd rather like to be able to drag&drop on the left menu. I feel like it's what i'll miss the most, drag&drop icons on the left the way i do it with the doc on my macos.11:35
haphaha yeah11:35
zbenjamininz, does the device use the maemo-launcher?11:36
hapJaffa: i feel like i want a "wishlist" website for the N800 where you could add items, title&explaination, put it in category (menu bar, system, etc) and users voting for items they want.11:36
Jaffahap: there's something under Control Panel to restructure the apps menu11:36
hapso i don't feel alone when I want a new feature.11:37
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Jaffahap: there's, but it's full of crap. Users don't think before adding things11:37
[mbm]hap: check the tabelteer site; I thought I saw some wishlist11:37
mitchelocJaffa: open source mentality should not apply to hardware design!11:37
trickiehap: there is a page on the wiki for wishlist11:37
haptrickie: ok11:37
trickiehap: as they all said already :)11:37
Jaffa"I want to run Windows Vista on my tablet on a PC emulator, why can't you just port wine?"11:37
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trickieJaffa: s/Wishlist/WhingeList/11:38
hapnaa, i want tiger on my tablet :)11:38
konfooJaffa: users dont think, period :)11:38
Jaffakonfoo: harsh... but fair ;-)11:38
hapbut true11:38
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konfoos/wishlist/sewer :)11:39
wumpusthere is nothing 'open source mentality' about dumb users11:39
wumpusevery os has the m:p11:39
hapCouldn't find package becomeroot11:40
mitchelocwumpus: i'm talking about the camera mostly, not the software, it's a web tablet, and it does what it's advertised to do well11:40
wumpusyep, agreed11:40
maddler'morning all...11:40
inzzbenjamin, yes, the device does use it wherever applicable11:40
wumpusopera works like a charm11:40
hapJaffa: all thoses usefull application should be put in a single apt source :)11:41
zbenjamininz, my buildpackage builds automatically the normal binary how can i tell the buildsystem to build the library?11:41
JaffaThat's the point of "Extras", but authors can't be forced to upload them there (but I agree)11:41
konfooi popped the camera out i think twice. once to test chat, the second to test the snapshot app i compiled11:41
JaffaAnyone who produces their own repository is just making work for themselves, IMHO11:41
konfooits a terrible little piece of hardware but it amuses me nevertheless11:42
inzzbenjamin, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=maemo-launcher dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot11:42
hapkonfoo: terrible, you mean low quality ? :)11:42
wumpusyeah the quality isn't great11:42
dwdJaffa: I do. But that's in no small part because anyone running Telomer right now needs to be able to pass the intelligence test of adding a repo. :-)11:42
wumpusremeinds me of my old philips webcam11:42
zbenjamininz, thx11:42
konfoowumpus exactly11:42
Jaffadwd: Oh, yeah11:42
konfooquickcam v1.011:43
wumpusthen again, it's fun to do cam chat with, as if image quality is so important there11:43
wumpusidd :)11:43
konfooi was going to make a camera app that did more than just save a jpeg.. i wonder who would use it11:43
hapkonfoo: yeah, it's lower than the first philipps webcam i bought 10 years ago11:43
mitchelocimage angel is way more important!!!11:43
hapmitcheloc: well i can move myself left, but i can't make the quality higher :)11:43
inzzbenjamin, ls /usr/bin/*.launch | wc says 38 on N800, so there's plenty of maemo-launcher users ;)11:44
hapdressing better won't change that11:44
konfoomove your face closer, hap :)11:44
mitchelochap: that's just awkward11:44
zbenjamininz, ;-)11:44
mitchelocmaybe the nokia hardware developers have eyes on the side of their heads, like fish, so it's not awkward for them! (jk)11:44
konfoothere are quite a few lightweight c-based image processing routines that could improve the quality of snapshots.. margunally11:44
hapmitcheloc: how come nokia didn't notice before releasing?11:45
konfooerr marginally11:45
konfoostep 1 lose the color, though :)11:45
mitchelochap: that's why!11:45
zbenjamininz, but shouldn't it be slower to start a binary and load a library instead of starting the binary directly?11:45
hapi don't understand, they never used it for video call purpose, maybe only to record someone in front of them11:45
Jaffazbenjamin: the point is maemo-launcher is running constantly - it's started during boot11:45
zbenjaminah okay11:46
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wumpusyou could use the dsp to do some image processing probably11:46
wumpusfilter out the noise etc11:46
inzzbenjamin, Jaffa, And maemo-launcer has gtk etc libraries loaded ready and pre-initialised11:46
Jaffainz: exactly11:46
konfooi have dozens of little routines from work11:46
Jaffaand gdkdisplay cached IIRC11:46
AD-N770good morning11:46
konfookwikcam.. has a ring to it :)11:47
hapJaffa: i agree is bullshit11:47
zbenjamininz, is there a list of build options i can use?11:47
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hapJaffa: it's even just spam right now :)11:47
mitchelocmplayer froze on my tablet :(11:48
inzzbenjamin, you can check the debian/rules for some clues11:48
wumpusit's bullshit for sure :p11:48
hap looks better11:48
JaffaThe OS2007_Tested_Applications page is crap too. People don't seem to take any care of the documents they produce or edit; e.g. the first couple of apps were added by a non-English speaker and prefixed with "Application", now nearly everything is - even though it's a page listing applications.11:48
inzzbenjamin, common build options are noopt and nostrip11:48
wumpusmy wishlist for n800 is certainly not 'more spam' :p11:49
hapJaffa: yeah, wiki always requires moderator spending a lot of time fixing previous editing issues.11:49
zbenjamininz, noopt and nostrip? that will result in greater binaries?11:49
konfoocatalogwishlist is anon-writeable... smart11:49
inzzbenjamin, in maemo programs quite common build option is thumb, (does _not_ work on i386)11:49
inzzbenjamin, yes, but if you want to debug, they might be useful11:50
zbenjamininz,  maybe ;-)11:50
wumpuslol, someone wants to port the gimp to it11:51
zbenjamininz, i can use dbus messages in the SDK?11:52
dwdwumpus: Excellent. I'd like them to port OpenOffice, while they're at it, too.11:52
JaffaI think that's on there too11:52
wumpuswell, inkscape is :)11:53
JaffaAnyway, time for the dentist. Hopefully my N800'll be delivered whilst I'm out.11:53
inzzbenjamin, sure you can, the environment starts the session and system dbus daemons11:53
inzzbenjamin, just use run-standalone for any process that wants to use them11:54
mitchelocwhoo hoo! mplayer video quality is SOO much better :)11:54
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mitcheloctoo bad you can't control playback lke rewind fastforward pause, eh!11:54
hapmitcheloc: well, i'm still not able to read some avi files i have11:54
mitchelochap: can you control the video with your mplayer?11:55
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[mbm]mplayer plays more than the builtin player but mplayer still can't play most modern codecs at full framerate11:55
maddlerJaffa: good luck for both!11:55
zbenjamininz, i want to load a statusbar plugin but it will not work...11:55
zbenjamindon't know why11:55
hapmitcheloc: can you play that ?11:56
[mbm]mitcheloc: you can control playback via the direction pad; works just like the arrows did on a linux pc11:56
hapwith nice fps and all, smooth play11:56
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mitchelochap: do i have to download that to my memory card? (noob here) or can i open it directly from mplayer?11:56
mitcheloclike an http stream11:57
hapi don't know, try & tell me :)11:57
inzzbenjamin, you have a .desktop for it?11:57
hapdidn't try http stream yet11:57
mitcheloc[mbm]: thanks, i'll try that11:57
zbenjamininz, do i need a .dektop for it if i try to load it with dbus-send?11:57
inzzbenjamin, on IT2007 you might11:57
zbenjamininz, its IT200611:58
zbenjamininz, its a 77011:58
inzAh, there you shouldn't need11:58
[mbm]hap: fired up mplayer from the terminal, streaming directly from the url .. plays but it seems to be missing every other frame11:58
hapyeah, you see ...11:58
haplet me put you another one i tried to optimize for n80011:58
zbenjamininz, where do i have to put the .desktop file? Maybe i need one....11:58
mitchelochap: how big is that file?11:59
hapi dont know, 10m?11:59
[mbm]hap: also seems to be missing audio11:59
mitcheloci'm downloading it over my evdo =(, do you still want me to try it from the memory card?11:59
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inzzbenjamin, err, the IT2006 doesn't need (or use) them11:59
hap[mbm]: yeah, and it plays fine on my desktop :(11:59
[mbm]oh .. ac3 audio, codec not found11:59
[mbm]switch the audio to mp3 and you should have sound12:00
zbenjamininz, but if i look in code add_user_items the meamo_af_desktop looks for a *.desktop file (but thats for loading the plugin at startup)12:00
[mbm]don't know how well the n800 would cope with ac3 decoding12:01
mitchelocoops, the episode of 24 i tried froze mplayer =(12:01
[mbm]mplayer's gmplauncher is quirky and tends to respawn mplayer multiple times12:01
hapanother one to try:
Molagimy mplayer freezes too12:01
Molagievery 2minuter12:02
hapthis one plays ok, but at the beinning of the video the default media player misses frames12:02
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mitchelochap: are you resizing the video for the screen?12:02
hapmitcheloc: you mean the one you encoded yourself from your DVD ? ;)12:02
hapmitcheloc: yeah, 400x24012:02
mitchelochap: of course12:02
hapfor the ED file12:02
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hapthe one other was straight out from internet12:02
[mbm]got sound but video is really lacking12:03
mitchelocwhat movie is that? "guardian"?12:03
[mbm]think I saw 3 frames of video out of the entire clip12:03
hapmitcheloc: i guess :)12:03
[mbm]ed is obviously elephant's dream12:04
[mbm]not sure what the other was12:04
hapyeah, I use ED for video test12:04
inzzbenjamin, well anyway, osso-statusbar-cpu works nicely on it2006 and sports no .desktop file12:04
hapno "rights" troubles12:04
mitchelocED froze mplayer again, maybe i need to restart my device...12:06
kulvezbenjamin, inz: I think the desktop files for status bar plugins were introduced in it200712:06
mitchelocthe wifi support in the n800 is really good12:07
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zbenjamininz, it looks like the statusbar item api has not changed from IT2005 to IT200612:08
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inzkulve, the .desktop files are used in IT2006 at least12:08
hapwhen i download something from opera, i have a modal window. Why is that so ?12:08
hapyou can't browse while it downloads :(12:08
inzhap, you can always press "close"12:09
mitchelochap: ed is playing pretty well now that i restarted it12:09
hapinz: it won't stop the download?12:09
kulveinz: ok, then I remembered wrong. Sorry..12:09
inzhap, nope12:09
hapmitcheloc: ed crashes my mplayer too12:09
czrany keyboard people would recommend using with 800?12:09
hapinz: well "close" would make me think so, thanks for the hint.12:09
mitcheloci don't think it's ed, it's mplayer that is the problem... it's very un-stable12:09
mitcheloci'm try the built in player with ED12:10
mitchelocczr: i've never tried but those bluetooth foldable ones look good12:10
[mbm]hmm got slightly better framerate playing with the mplayer commandline12:10
mitchelocczr: what application would the keyboard be useful with? only e-mail?12:11
czrmitcheloc, well, yes. but I'm looking for someone who actually has something to recommend (based on personal experience)12:11
czrmitcheloc, cli12:11
[mbm]-lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all12:11
mitchelocczr: good point :)12:12
mitchelochap: have you tried the media-streamer application?12:12
hapnot yet12:12
[mbm]now I'm only missing 90% of the frames12:13
mitchelochap: neither work with the n80012:13
mitcheloc* built in media player12:13
mitchelocczr: maybe the n900 will have a built in slide-out keyboard :)12:14
wumpuswould only make it bigger and heavier imo12:14
wumpusI don't use it for any data entry anyway12:14
[mbm]think you can buy a bluetooth keyboard for the n80012:15
mitcheloci meant if they can keep the existing form factor12:15
wumpusyou can [mbm]12:15
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wumpusthat would mean a really tiny and unusable keyboard I'm afraid mikemorrison12:15
wumpusnot much better than the onscreen one12:15
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wumpuslike the stupid little keys some pdas have *shiver*12:16
czrmitcheloc, that's not really helping :-)12:17
mitchelocwumpus: i have a t-mobile mda with slide out keyboard, it's very useful12:17
czrmitcheloc, nah, just wondering whether using a proper keyboard with 800 will make it any more useful for me12:17
[mbm]hmm where the hell is the nfs/samba support12:17
mitchelocnfs/samba! that'd be awesome! (i'm loving this more every minute)12:17
[mbm]you know, I'd love it if mplayer got to the point I could connect to my mythtv box and stream live tv12:19
[mbm]which isn't happening any time soon since my mythtv box is only recording hdtv signals12:19
[mbm](don't think the n800 would be able to deal with 1920x1080i mpeg2 transports)12:20
hapok i finished to read at all12:20
zbenjaminin maemo_af_desktop there is a function called osso_log where can i read the logmessages?12:20
hapi really agree with all, have you seen the menu when you hit with your fingers12:20
hapthe arrows moves the menu of 1 pixel (sic)12:20
hap=> not usable to move down12:20
mitcheloc[mbm]: if you use the upnp abilities and convert the video on your myth box, i think you can do just that12:20
[mbm]mitcheloc: got the upnp turned on but mediastreamer can't do much beyond tell me there's a mythtv server somewhere on my network12:21
[mbm]gives a 'not found' if I try to tell it to play12:22
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[mbm]hap: hmm don't see any menu issues here12:22
keesjsome of the flash games on the wii sites are pretty nice12:23
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hap[mbm]: takes me 4 seconds to move to the bottom, keeping my finger on the arrow12:25
haptoo long ... far too long.12:25
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hapa single hit should move down of a page, or at least an application.12:26
[mbm]hap: think that's annoying you haven't tried to edit a command in the xterm .. moving the cursor with the arrows is way too slow12:26
hapright now a single hit move down of a pixel12:26
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mitchelochap: good read, i hope nokia follows the suggestions and updates maemo!12:26
hap[mbm]: don't be sarcastic, it's different purpose12:26
hap[mbm]: we're talking UI issues12:27
hapmitcheloc: yeah i agree12:27
[mbm]hap: hey, at least the menus you can click on the menu item, I can't just click on the character in the xterm and jump the cursor there12:27
* [mbm] far more apt to use the xterm than the menus12:28
hap[mbm]: i had that tought too when i wanted to edit a cmomand line on the xterm12:28
haphaving to move all the way to the point i wanted to edit, instead of clicking somewhere12:28
[mbm]well, large part of that is the fact it's a terminal and terminals don't normally support touchscreens so there's no way of telling the shell you want to move the cursor to a given spot12:29
hapmbm: yeah, it's more like a xterm issue, which i wouldn't consider a nokia problem12:30
[mbm]I'd be happy if they just increase the key repeat rate12:30
hapthe menu is part of the N800, i get more expectations from it12:30
hapand that menu issue is a terrible issue to me, anyone who would use it for 2 days would be bothered with it12:30
hapi I was working at Nokia myself, and I would just report about it and ask someone to work on it if I was chief, or work on it myself.12:31
hap(and wouldn't blame GTK or other to be the reason)12:31
[mbm]list of mild annoyances on these thigns is incredibly long12:31
kjetilho[mbm]: on the other hand, the XTerm app is hand crafted for the device, and knows where the cursor is12:32
[mbm]you haven't even mentioned that wifi is unstable and can't even connect to some access points (crashes the wifi support)12:32
kjetilhoit can synthesize the needed keypresses12:32
hapi feel i'll write a website quickly to be able to add such annoyances12:32
hap[mbm]: yeah, i haven't move from home yet, my 2 wifis points got ok, i'm 2 meters away from the router12:33
kjetilho(it will break some times, though.  e.g. vi.)12:33
mitcheloc[mbm]: wifi is really good on my device?12:33
hapkjetilho: as i said, it's more an 'application' annoyance than nokia's fault12:33
[mbm]kjetilho: sure, but if I'm ssh'd into my server, what's the api to report the screen clicks? the arrow keys might not take you were you expect depending on the application running12:33
kjetilhoyes, but the arrow keys might not work, either.12:34
kjetilhoie. if you're running ed12:34
[mbm]mitcheloc: seems to depend highly on the access point you're connected to12:34
kjetilho(has anyone packaged ed, btw?  I miss it ...)12:34
mitcheloci'm using a belkin pre-n access point, works perfectly12:34
[mbm]kjetilho: that's what I mean.. there's a gpm library but most apps don't use it12:34
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[mbm]terminal apps aren't structured to handle mouse input; not really a problem with the terminal program itself12:35
mitchelochap: what command line options were you giving mplayer to convert the video?12:35
* hap encoded all the ED movie12:35
hapmitcheloc: i use some java app i found online, let me find that for you12:36
kjetilhomitcheloc: I used the script on the web12:36
mitchelochap: are you planning on playing it through mplayer? it seems to crash too much for that to be possible12:36
[mbm]mitcheloc: for playback I'd suggest -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all -cache 819212:36
kjetilhothe Java app was non-functional on my Linux box -- the file chooser didn't let me choose anything12:36
hapmitcheloc: it's just to make a test, i'll put the video online within minutes12:36
hapmitcheloc: i need to release video to talk about it with other developers, don't I ? :)12:36
* kjetilho watched an episode of 24 on the tube to work today :-)12:37
[mbm]mitcheloc: using those options on tne n800 you can almost watch it at 1fps12:37
mitchelochap: can you try converting the video so that the default media player can play it?12:37
mitcheloc[mbm]: 1fps or 11fps?12:37
mitchelockjetilho: i'm looking at the script right now12:38
hapah, i just crashed the n800 deleting an appointment12:38
hapno more respond12:38
[mbm]mitcheloc: well, without those options it stalled right at a closeup of the wall12:38
[mbm]mitcheloc: with those options it atleast played all the way through .. wasn't really 1fps but was nowhere near the full12:38
hapcan I restart the GUI from command line ?12:38
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hapmitcheloc: - see the media converter12:39
mitcheloc[mbm]: i think since we *have* to convert the video, the ideal strategy would be to get the default player to work, right?12:39
[mbm]what format was the sample clip that came on the 800? it played fine12:39
hapmitcheloc: i agree12:39
[mbm]mitcheloc: yeah, figure out the best codec and just convert12:39
hap[mbm]: i looked, it's 400x240 / 628K / 25FPS / 0.262 bits per pixel, opendivx12:39
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[mbm]think I deleted the clip off mine12:40
hapyou shouldn't :) you want it back?12:40
[mbm]I'm sure I have a copy somewhere12:40
[mbm]foudn it12:41
[mbm]mplayer can't play that anywhere near as good as the builtin player12:42
hapi agree12:42
hapthey say mplayer has a lot of improvments to go for the n800.12:42
hapso best is to encode for the default player.12:42
[mbm]I think the builtin player is using video acceleration12:42
hapi think so12:43
[mbm]I know mplayer isn't12:43
[mbm]wonder if there's xv support12:43
hapthe audio sound quality with my koss hearplugs is awesome btw12:43
hapvery happy about that12:43
zuhN800 has xv, yes (dunno if mplayer uses it)12:44
kjetilhois it just me, or is the maximum volume kind of low?  (using the plugs which comes with the 770)12:44
[mbm]mplayer on the 770 does a yuv trick, on the n800 it just does x11 .. horribly slow12:44
bergieUPS has marked my N800 as "out for delivery" already 3 hours ago, I wonder when it arrives12:44
[mbm]bet if someone recompiled mplayer with hardware support like xv it'd actually be pretty damned good12:45
* [mbm] tries -vo xv 12:45
hapbergie: within the day in general12:45
bergiehap: I hope so :-)12:45
[mbm]hmm they didn't compile mplayer with xv12:46
* bergie gave the 770 to a guy who's porting Midgard to Maemo last weekend12:46
hapwhat that for?12:47
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hapwould it be of any use?12:47
X-Fadebergie: Mine is out for delivery too :) Let's see if I can beat you..12:47
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bergiehap: Midgard is an application framework on top of glib and libgda12:47
bergiehap: what we use it for is the PHP component architecture that is built on top of it12:48
hapaah i thought about the online content php website.12:48
bergiebut obviously that itself wouldn't be that useful on Maemo :-)12:48
bergiebut since Midgard12:48
bergie...supports replication, I though we might come up with some interesting Maemo -> Web integration12:48
[mbm] .. xdpyinfo for an n800 .. xvideo support12:49
[mbm]ooh, randr12:50
[mbm]there's the rotate support12:50
haphere is 50M for Elephant Dreams12:51
[mbm]lmao it worked12:51
[mbm]flipped the screen 18012:51
hapit plays smooth on my N800 within the default player, for few minutes12:51
hapthen it hangs, crashes, etc.12:51
hapand don't try to move forward...12:52
[mbm]hmm rotate 90 made it reboot :/12:52
mitcheloc[mbm]: you flipped the entire maemo interface screen or just the video?12:52
hapmitcheloc: don't dream, only the video :)12:52
[mbm]mitcheloc: the entire maemo ui12:52
hap[mbm]: did you ??12:52
[mbm]connected to the x server remotely and told it to rotate 18012:52
[mbm]just using the randr extensions12:53
[mbm]I'd take a screenshot, but that doesn't prove anything on a 180 rotate12:53
mitcheloccan you give us instructions?12:53
[mbm]do you have dropbear installed yet?12:54
hapwell if it reboots the device, is that interesting :)12:54
[mbm]x server normally kicks you off remote connections, had to use dropbear to portforward and drop the x restrictions12:54
mitchelocdropbear is in garage?12:55
[mbm]read the wiki and add maemo to your repositories12:55
[mbm]heh .. maemo doesn't like being rotated12:57
mitchelocmy n800 is currrently extending the virtual memory to my sd card -- have to wait for that first12:57
zbenjamininz, found my dumb error12:57
[mbm]screen isn't redrawing properly and the touchscreen is all wrong12:57
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zbenjamininz, i forgot to rename the plugin_entry functions so maemo_af_desktop could not find it12:58
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inzzben, d0h12:58
[mbm]hmm damn, can't use the ui enough to rotate the screen back12:59
zbenjaminis there a default location for icons?13:00
zbenjaminah /usr/share/icons.....13:01
inzor /usr/share/pixmaps, whatever suits you best13:01
[mbm]heh just a sec, I'll take a picture of the device rotated13:03
[mbm](also clearly shows the video acceleration used since the video doesn't line up with the window13:09
X-Fade[mbm]: :)13:09
X-FadeEven sideways..13:09
[mbm]X-Fade: I rotated the x server, not the fb13:10
X-Fadethis is xrandr?13:10
X-FadeThat too :)13:10
mitcheloci was like...that doesn't look rotated... but it's rotated 180 degrees :)13:11
[mbm]mitcheloc: heh, I as holding it rotated, went to pop out the camera .. doh! camera is over there now ..13:12
[mbm]device is almost symetrical so you don't notice that it's upsidedown13:13
mitchelocyou still can't angle the camera properly eh13:13
[mbm]yeah, I wanted a shot of the camera on screen, hence why it's taken at a weird angle13:13
[mbm]hah, even the nokia logo on shutdown is flipped13:15
[mbm](rebooted it to fix the rotation)13:15
mitcheloci'm going to see if i can replace that logo :)13:15
[mbm]it's on the filesystem somewhere.. I found it when I was looking around the device13:16
[mbm]that one isn't nearly as ugly asn the 'pull my finger' it does on startup13:16
mitchelocarg! what's with those stupid "please don't read this" people on youtube!13:17
sp3001startup? what's that13:17
sp3001(sang to the tune of "desktop? what's that?")13:17
[mbm]sp3001: show me how to put the n800 into suspend :P13:17
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florianhi all13:31
X-Fadebergie: Got mine ;)13:31
inzmeh, osso-xterm shortcut editing bug fixed now13:32
bergieX-Fade: congrats! I'll ping you when mine arrives (hopefully it does so before I have to leave to a client)13:32
inzSo the new shortcuts work without restarting the program13:32
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SageAnyone compiled web server software for 770, for example Apache?13:37
inzAt least thttpd is there, someone was speaking of lighttpd, IIRC13:37
[mbm]wow, mplayer with xv support is actually very good13:40
* [mbm] tries hap's clip again13:40
kjetilhocan you do full-res at 25 fps?13:40
kjetilho(in _any_ codec)13:40
kjetilho(my E61 has a nice video of the hands when it boots, I was a bit disappointed it was a fixed image on the 770)13:42
[mbm]that ed clip of haps is now playing perfectly13:42
[mbm]was about to compile mplayer myself when I found this deb -
[mbm]which works great13:43
mitchelocdoes that work better then the one on the garage.maemo website?13:43
[mbm]MUCH BETTER13:43
* mitcheloc tries and hopes there is no virus!13:44
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[mbm]just watched the clip at what appears to be full framerate13:45
[mbm]BENCHMARKn: disp: 685 (23.04 fps)  drop: 0 (0%)  total: 685 (23.04 fps)13:46
[mbm]heh.. yep13:46
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mitchelocit's really sweet how open the platform is, i'm loving this (except for the camera)13:48
mitcheloci think the n800 would get a much wider audience if the ui was improved more13:48
kjetilho[mbm]: but it's still only 400x24013:48
sxpert-workmitcheloc: what's up with the camera ?13:48
kjetilhomitcheloc: s/ui/apps/13:48
[mbm]sp3001: it's impossible to stand infront of the camera without holding it weird13:49
mitchelocsxpert-work: #1 it doesn't angle properly so you can have a comfortable video conference and #2 the quality is very poor13:49
sxpert-workmitcheloc: it's the optics that are too small, a classic13:49
mitchelocconsidering nokia can make 3+megapixel camera phones, i'm missing how they couldn't put a better chip/design into the camera....13:49
[mbm]the n800 camera looks horrible under low light13:50
[mbm]just colored spots13:50
sxpert-workyeah. the optical part is probably way too small13:50
inz[mbm], <insert any "cheap" camera> looks horrible under low light13:51
mitcheloc[mbm]: fine, but the marketing is COMPLETE BS if they are trying to sell on "video conferencing" capabilities13:51
[mbm]inz: yeah I know13:51
mitchelocthe camera is the wrong angle, i can't believe that!!!!!!13:51
sxpert-workmitcheloc: that's marketing for you13:51
mitchelocmarketing departments should be held accountable :)13:52
sxpert-workmitcheloc: that's what happens when marketing takes a good device (the 770) and adds features without letting the engineers handle the details13:52
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sxpert-workmitcheloc: then again, you can't expect much from a camera that has a lens 1mm in diameter13:53
mitchelocsxpert-work: the 770 is better then the 800?13:53
sxpert-workmitcheloc: I preferred the "no shitty aluminium powder paint" look13:54
mitchelocfull black would have been sweet :)13:54
mitcheloc[mbm]: i tried that build of mplayer, can't get it to work properly either13:55
mitchelocsxpert-work: there might be a way to replace the faceplate13:55
[mbm]mitcheloc: from the commandline, try - mplayer -benchmark -vo xv  -cache 8192 -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all
sxpert-workmitcheloc: also, the disappearance of the protector cover means that if I leave the device in my pocket, the screen could be hit, or clicked13:56
[mbm]sxpert-work: yeah, it need a better suspend13:56
sxpert-work[mbm]: also, the aluminium cover protects the screen from adverse things in my pocket13:57
mitcheloc[mbm]: i still have not tried setting up a command line on my n800, what app do i need to download?13:58
JaffaHmm, still got all my teeth - but no N800 yet14:05
[mbm]mitcheloc: read the wiki14:06
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jcml_I think the protector's absence is so they can sell after-market covers.14:16
jcml_They must have made some compromises to get it "Nseries" branded - I'd be surprised if profitable after-market sales projections wasn't a required part of the product launch ...14:17
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mitchelocit seems like everyone here uses "they" to refer to nokia/maemo devs, do they lurk here?14:18
Sageinz: thx14:19
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zuhmitcheloc: some of them, yes14:20
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obiwhere can I see which fonts can be loaded through XLoadQueryFont()? I am trying to port an x11 game which tries to load a font called "9x15", but it can't find it on the 77014:32
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jcml_obi: What about porting (or finding an existing port of) xfontsel?14:37
obiisn't it possible to locate the available fonts somewhere in the filesystem?14:38
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jcml_I'm not sure.  That would be the way I'd do it on the desktop ... :-)14:46
kulvedoes that relate in any way to anything..?14:50
obii searched for XLoadQueryFont in and after following some links i saw that the default font is called "fixed"14:53
obiwhich works now and seems to be a good replacement14:53
kjetilhojcml_: xlsfonts would be trivial to port.  but I don't think many apps use legacy fonts on Maemo14:55
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X-FadeJust made a VOIP call to a landline in another country with Gizmo. Works really well :)15:08
|tbb|x-Fade do u own a n8?15:09
X-FadeYep, now I do :)15:09
X-FadeGot it 2 hours ago ;)15:09
|tbb|when u dial your number from another country do u add + before15:10
mitchelocX-Fade: using the headphone set? or speaker/mic?15:10
X-Fade|tbb|: No, the number was in the country were my voip-in number was. So I didn't need to..15:11
X-Fademitcheloc: I just use it handsfree15:11
X-FadeBut tested headphones/mic to. They could not hear the difference..15:11
|tbb|i think it wont work with the +15:11
keesjis the sensitivity of the screen controllable?15:12
JaffaYay, it arrived just before lunch :-D15:13
maddlerJaffa: my N8 is @ home!!!15:14
inz*sigh* I want one too! But I cannot afford pay 400 eur for it...15:14
maddlerGodot arrived at last!!!15:14
Jaffamaddler: yay! but, let me guess, you're not...15:14
X-Fadeinz: Didn't you get a code?15:14
* Jaffa sets it on charge.15:14
|tbb|congratz maddler, congratz ups15:14
inzX-Fade, nope15:14
maddlerJaffa: woah!!! how did u guess?!15:14
X-Fadeinz: That must be a mistake..15:14
mitcheloccongrats to both of you :)15:15
inzX-Fade, I'd say "policy" rather than "mistake", but nevertheless I would have liked one15:15
Jaffamaddler: must just be psychic15:16
X-Fadeinz: I think you have done more than a lot of other people did?15:16
mitchelocwhere on the wiki does it say how to install or where to get xterm?15:16
keesjpeople who's name start with i are evil15:17
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inzkeesj, s/name/nick/ ;)15:17
mitchelockulve: thank you15:18
inzWtf, have I written instructions... weird...15:18
mitchelockulve: those appear only be instructions for the n77015:19
kulveI just installed it for n80015:19
kulvemost of the apps works for both, afaik15:19
mitchelocokay, the 0.12 deb?15:19
kulveat that site, I mean15:20
kulvemitcheloc: I can't remember the version. I just added the repo and installed it with the app. mgr.15:20
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inzmitcheloc, don't follow the it2005 instructions, but it2006 or (refresh for) it2007, depending if you have 770 or N80015:21
kulveinz: so you just added the bora repo..?15:22
inzkulve, the bora repo has been there for a while15:22
kulveoh, ok15:22
inzkulve, the only difference is, that with bora repo, you don't need any additional repositories15:22
|tbb|mitcheloc, add repository bora main15:22
mitcheloc|tbb|: thanks, i was just goint to ask that :)15:23
inzkulve, when building with mistral, you get dependencies on libraries like libxau015:23
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mitchelocthere aren't many packages in the repo are there? installing xterm right now!15:24
mitcheloc(btw thanks to all of you)15:24
kulvehmm.. updating xterm to 0.13.mh19bora115:25
jpetersenjust got my N80015:25
jpetersennice device15:25
maddlerjpetersen: you bet it is!15:26
inzkulve, if you had mh19 previously, there's no functional change15:26
kulveI had mistral repo..15:26
inzkulve, well, if you had the newest from mistral repo, then there's no change, otherwise there may be shortcut editor or fixed run-time updates to the shortcuts15:27
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kulveinz: yeah, but if "apt-get upgrade" (or some GUI frontend) tells there's something to upgrade, I usually upgrade :)15:27
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jpetersenis 2.2006.51-6  the latest version?15:30
mitcheloci keep having to restart my n8, i'll upgrade to 2.2006.51-6 to15:31
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X-FadeMine came preloaded with 51-6 already..15:32
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maddlerheya Andy8015:33
mitchelocso i got an older device? i can still exchange mine maybe they slipped in a hardware revision, hows the camera on yours?15:33
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Andy80I need a little tip... if I write some code and I want to test it ecc... do I have to kee the code inside the /scratchbox/ folders or ca I keep it as usual into /home/andy80/documents/sources/ ?15:34
jpetersenX-Fade: mine too15:34
kulveAndy80: you need to compile it inside the SB, so you need to keep it there too (I think)15:35
X-Fademitcheloc: Well, it is ok I guess. Lots of noise in low licht conditions.15:35
kulveI think they all have lot's of noise..15:36
maddlerAndy80: if you compile using  *ARMEL* target you have to execute it in the same target15:36
mitchelocX-Fade: i meant mostly if it's angled so you can face the device straight on15:36
Andy80ok... I'll give andy80 the permission to write inside that folder15:36
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kulveAndy80: you should have your own account there inside the SB with your own home directory..15:36
Andy80kulve: yes I've15:37
kulveyou shouldn't need to explicitly give any access rights there..15:37
Andy80ah ok...15:37
X-Fademitcheloc: Then I only see my left ear ;)15:37
mitchelocwhoo, i'm in through dropbear! :)15:37
maddlermitcheloc: good :)15:37
Andy80so the "andy80" outside the scratchbox can write files inside the /home/andy80 of scratchbox?15:37
kulveAndy80: you can copy stuff to your home dir inside SB by copying to /scratchbox/users/<username>/home/<username>/foobar15:37
mitchelocis it possible to use the ssh connection into dropbear to launch mplayer on the n800?15:38
X-Fademitcheloc: Well that is not true:) But the picture is offset to the left on the screen..15:38
kulveand you can edit it outside with your favourite editor using that dir too..15:38
Andy80kulve: perfect :)15:38
mitchelocX-Fade: yep, thats a drawback :(15:38
Andy80just a curiosity: which editor/ide do you use to develop maemo apps?15:38
kulveAndy80: I usually make a "sb-home" -link in my real home dir that points to that home in SB, so it's easier to access.. :)15:39
X-FadeAnd moving rapidly causes tearing effects..15:39
kulveAndy80: emacs/vi15:39
kulvemitcheloc: yep15:39
kulvemitcheloc: su - user, run-standalone appname15:40
kulve(if you login as root..)15:40
mitchelockulve: does that sh file run the app on the device?15:42
kulvemitcheloc: if you are logged in trhough ssh, sure it does15:42
kulveit just set's some env variables15:42
mitcheloconly have to run it once?15:42
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extremecan someone help me15:43
kulvehmm.. I'm not actually sure what you did mean with your question..?15:43
extremei'm looking for a somebody for talking15:44
kulvee.g. I usually compile an app, copy it to the device with scp, then login in with ssh, and run it with " app"15:44
mitchelockulve: i want to run mplayer on the n800 to play a file, but i want to start it through SSH15:44
extremebecause i dont know english very well15:44
extremeand i want develop15:44
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kulvemitcheloc: just login through the ssh and run the mplaeyer..?15:45
mitchelocit's playing anything on the device when i do that15:45
kulvemitcheloc: you mean, "it's *not* playing" ..?15:46
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mitchelockulve: i tested another app to see if my mplayer command was the problem15:46
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mitchelocgizmo started just fine when i started it from ssh15:47
mitchelocessentially i'm following this webpage --
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mitcheloci'm loving that i can ssh into the n8! this is sweet15:48
kulvemitcheloc: hmm.. It should work like that, but I haven't tested with mplayer myself..15:48
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mitchelockulve: i think even if i get this working, streaming through video lan isn't all that convenient anyway15:49
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maddlerJaffa: looks like tonight I'll be in the right mood to make some tests! ;)15:51
kulvedid anybody else test that mplayer test build? (
mitcheloci did15:56
sKaBoykulve, i've tried it and it seems to work fine! only the gui is quite slow to start..15:56
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kulveI need to try it too then. I converted 007 & golden eye, but the "built-in" media player had some troubles with it..15:57
mitchelocit's crashing on my end16:00
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bedboiok, so it seems that i won't receive the discount code...16:08
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mitchelocdamn, those nokia batteries are expeeeeensive -- $60 each!16:19
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Molagihmm does anyone have troubles with the standard media player when playing music from the playilist, when i change a song when another one playing the whole media player freezes16:31
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Andy80mitcheloc: mmm... I shouldn't say but... if you search on ebay you can find cheaper batteries ;)16:37
mitchelocAndy80: thanks, good idea :)16:37
Andy80usually their life is less than original batteries but you can find them for 5-10$16:38
Molagiwhere can i get mplayer for os200716:39
kulvethat may work or may not16:40
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mitchelocMolagi: i was just going to paste that, may not work too16:40
Molagidoes it work on you?16:40
Molagiin your n80016:40
tzzMolagi: it works on my N800 well for processed files.  Doesn't scale large video well, so it's not optimized.16:41
kulve15:56 < sKaBoy> kulve, i've tried it and it seems to work fine! only the gui is quite slow to start..16:41
kulve16:00 < mitcheloc> it's crashing on my end16:41
jcml_Quick question: of those people who have both a 770 and n800, would you call the n800 a compelling upgrade, yet?16:42
mitcheloci have the n80016:42
kulvethat thing doesn't have power to scale, so I think it doesn't really matter if it scales or not. Just sclae it yourself to a proper size before trying to view it16:43
mitchelocit plays small files fine, i was trying with a 300 meg vid file16:43
Jaffatzz: One of my first things this afternoon is to check/enhance the presets on the N800 for 770-encode16:43
tzzJaffa: it works fine with the built-in player and with mplayer as it is.16:44
tzzI would have sent you a patch already otherwise :)16:44
Jaffatzz: excellent, that may make the job very easy :)16:44
Jaffatzz: so the mplayer preset still works well with ssvb's current mplayer on the 800?16:45
tzzthe experimental build player them fine.  I use .-p mplayer and -216:46
inzI just uploaded nginx to maemo-hackers repositories16:46
Molagihmm mplayer froze16:46
inzIn case someone wants a http daemon16:46
Molagihow can i close it16:46
tzzMolagi: Ctrl-Alt-Del16:47
tzzthe "back" button, then you wait a few seconds16:47
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tzzthe experimental build freezes for a few seconds on quitting, at least for HTTP files16:48
mitchelocOr use the home button, then click the mplayer icon and the X and wait for it to ask you tof orce the app closed16:48
mitchelocis there any way to fix the date format? it's like dd/mm/yy, instead of mm/dd/yy16:49
tzzI will try -sws 0 next with large files, to see if the scaler is the reason they don't play well (these are NTSC video AVIs)16:49
tzzdidn't have time for that last night...16:49
tzzmitcheloc: I think it's a locale function, you can't customize that individually (unfortunately, I much prefer YYYY-MM-DD)16:50
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tzzmitcheloc: submit a bug, maybe in 2-3 years they'll fix it.16:51
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mitcheloctzz: 2-3 years! geese, by then i'd have become so familiar with dd/mm/yy that mm/dd/yy will look strange to me!16:52
dwdmitcheloc: Which is fair enough - it's the right way around.16:52
mitchelocyay, i updated my tablet firmware!16:53
Takanybody try fceu-bora216:53
Andy80mitcheloc: here in Italy we use dd/MM/yyyy :)16:54
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mitchelocit's an evil plan by nokia devs!!!! they wan't to convert us :(16:55
Andy80oh... ppl, I wrote a very short review of my experience with n770, and I've published here: it's italian language. But, if someone of you keeps track of all reviews, well he can link this review too :)16:56
mitchelocthe firmware updater didn't say much about what was fixed...?16:56
kulvemitcheloc: yeah, none of the device manufacturers seem to say much about the changelog16:57
kulvesome major things at most..16:57
TakChangeLog: Fixed - everything  :-P16:58
Andy80mitcheloc: wich firmware did you update?17:00
Andy80mitcheloc: n770 or n800 ?17:00
mitchelocAndy80: n80017:00
Andy80mitcheloc: ok. How is it possible to see the current firmware version on N770?17:01
mitcheloci don't have a n770, but i imagine it's through the control panel -> about17:01
kulveAndy80: cat /etc/osso_software_version or something :)17:01
Andy80I try :)17:01
JaffaWhere was mgedmin's page of handy .install files?17:02
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Andy80kulve: it says: NOKIA770_2006SE_2.2006.39-14_PR_MR017:03
Andy80is it the latest one?17:03
kulveI'm not sure about the 770 releases..17:03
mitchelocAndy80: go to the website, and look up your device under support17:04
TakAndy80: yes17:04
mitchelocthere should be something there (assuming it's like the n800)17:04
mitcheloci'm going to get an evdo wifi router for my car :)17:04
mitchelocthe n800 will go sweet along with that, then i can make voip calls from the road :)17:05
Andy80mitcheloc: car? wel... but... where do you get connection from :) ???17:06
mitchelocan evdo card :)17:06
Takbedboi: are you in the us?17:06
mitchelocthats what i use for my connection at home, i haven't had a wired internet line for a while!17:07
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Andy80mitcheloc: don't know what it is.... here in Italy our internet connection is got from the telephone line....(ADSL)17:07
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mitchelocevdo works like a cell phone but for data instead, it's a pcmcia card that i drop in my laptop17:09
mitcheloci get something like 150KBps download and 30KBps upload17:09
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Andy80ahhh ok... we have a similar thing too. we can have it trough gprs or umts cards. but... the connection is expensive! You pay 0,6 cents every kilobyte :(17:10
Takyeah, I would think an evdo plan for home use would be expensive17:11
mitchelocwell, i'm speciail, i get unlimited for $25/month, it's $60/month for everyone else :)17:11
bedboiTak: in EU17:11
mitchelocso special that i can't spell special17:11
Andy80bedboi: me, .it too ;)17:11
Takkeesj: ouch - "after trying bomberman I am positive this is not the way to go"17:12
mitcheloccheck this out http://www.stompboxnetworks.com17:13
keesjTak I was very existed about using the mouse trick for xmoto.17:13
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keesjand I was very disappointed with the wait it worked(sorry)17:14
Takhow did bomberman turn you off of that?  (I haven't tried it yet)17:14
keesjthe trick handle multiple inputs at once is something that might even be patented , if you understand what I mean17:15
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keesj"kliking" the screen just did not felt right. perhaps the doom aproach is better?17:15
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glassstompbox is pretty cool17:16
Takdid you try with thumbs?17:16
glassthough, i would have just bought some used laptop17:16
mitchelockeesj: iPhone?17:16
keesjglass, what is that?17:16
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keesjmitcheloc, what about iphone?17:16
glassmitchelocs url few lines up17:17
keesjmitcheloc, but a phone is not like such a gaming device.I think the remote "joystick" part would be better suitable for playing game , and pretty cool17:18
mitchelockeesj: i thought your multi-touch comment was referring to the iphone17:19
Jaffamgedmin: where was that page of handy .install files you created?17:19
Andy80keesj: cm'on! iphone! you know it... that closed box you cannot program in any way :)17:19
keesjI don't need the 3d stuff (that will not be easy because the remote requires leds for absolute positioning)17:19
Jaffamgedmin: thanks17:19
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keesjmitcheloc, not really no. I wanted to program the exact the same thing as on bomberman but for xmoto17:20
Takkeesj: did you try with thumbs?  have you tried fceu?17:21
hapi think the bomberman is great17:22
haplooks like my old amiga version, i love it17:22
keesjI did not try fceu ,17:22
keesjI will try bomberman again then !17:22
keesjperhaps I am just to old for this stuff :p17:22
Takasking because fceu uses onscreen buttons as well17:22
keesjis there a maemo bomberman server?17:23
hapthere should be, online, so we play with others :]17:24
mitchelocthe chess game should be enabled!17:24
keesjhmm bomberman was no desinged to have multiple key presses after all17:25
Andy80a little tip for Nokia engeneers: if N770/800 (home/reload) buttons were on the right side, the device could be used such a gameboy, nintendo ds ecc.... understand what I mean?17:25
hapkeesj: there is a bug, my player goes left all the time17:25
haphave to press left again to stop him from going left17:25
mitchelochap: did you just wake up?17:26
hapmitcheloc: i did, was that reported ? :)17:26
hapsorry, can't read IRC _all the time_, have to work a little :)17:26
keesjyes that happens when i first hit left and then an other "key"17:26
mitchelocAndy80: i don't think they read this channel, i had that same thought too before buying it, it's still good enough to overlook that17:26
TakAndy80: that's what onscreen buttons are for17:26
mitchelochap: i'm still awake, sorry if i miss a thing or two17:26
Andy80Tak: yes, I know... but touch screen is very very fragile....I'm not going to play on it ;)17:27
TakI haven't had any problems17:27
TakI play a *lot* of nintendo on my 77017:27
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mitchelocTak: do you have a screen protector?17:29
nelsonScreens have gotten a lot better in recent years.17:29
keesjTak, what does is look like when you play?17:29
nelsonI've also had good luck paying attention to how my stylus runs across the screen.17:30
nelsonif I feel any resistance, I clean the screen and my stylus tip.17:30
nelson(clean == wipe off on my shirt)17:30
Takkeesj: about like
Takalthough there are Save and Load buttons on the left now17:30
keesjand the other keys a on the "joy stik"?17:31
Takyeah, it uses the d-pad for directional stuff17:31
keesjdid you try it with the n800?17:31
Takactually gpd was just helping me with n800 testing last night17:31
keesjscreen rotate will be great for right handed people17:32
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TakI don't think fceu currently supports screen rotation the way xmame does17:32
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* Jaffa boots his N800 for the first time.17:36
kkitodo you know how to gain root pribvileges with nokia n800 ?17:36
dwdJaffa: Show off.17:37
Jaffakkito: Easiest way is "becomeroot" package on ApplicationCatalog2006 page.17:37
kkitoand the hard way?17:37
* Tak puts a curse on european n800 devs17:37
c0ffeethere are several levels of hardness17:37
c0ffeeyou can install becomeroot17:37
c0ffeeyou can install ssh17:38
c0ffeeyou can enable r&d mode and install xterm17:38
kkitoi have  xterm, and i want to do su or sudo like any other linux distribution17:38
c0ffeeor you can patch the firmware image17:38
c0ffeesee the maemowiki for all those ways17:38
kkitook thnkyou i am going to read the wiki17:39
JaffaNew stylus is nice. Chunky but accurate.17:39
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X-FadeJaffa: I wonder what was wrong with 'round' :)17:41
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JaffaSending files to/from Windows laptops is nice and easy.17:42
keesjI think I was a bit annoyed by Alivis his message. At least the gaming discussion is restarted after the Developer program marathon17:42
Takhmm, which message?17:43
maddlerJaffa: how do you send them?17:44
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maddlermgedmin: working on your new vim package... :)17:44
kkitodo you know when canola will be released for bora?17:46
kkitoor if it will be released ever17:46
Jaffamaddler: To send from N800 to PC: Control Panel > Bluetooth > Devices and add laptop. It then shows up in file manager (770 had phone next to the "My Computer" equivalent. N800 has "Bluetooth devices" which expands to include phone and others (also "Network servers", but I've not investigated that yet). To send from PC -> N800 is right-click on file and say "Send to Bluetooth device" and select N800 from list. N800 asks where you'd like to save it, and if yo17:46
mitchelocI say someone take the current firmware image and improve faster :)17:46
mgedminmaddler: cool!17:46
maddleroh... I'm using scp :D17:46
maddleryou know... console geek... ;)17:47
mitchelocJaffa: scp is way easier over wifi17:47
maddlermitcheloc: it's easier over usb too! :D17:47
Jaffamitcheloc: yes, agreed - but I'm pointing out things which the 770 couldn't (easily) do.17:48
mgedminJaffa: yay, btobex transfers are very cool17:48
mitchelocmaddler: nah, usb needs a cable =P17:48
JaffaUSB 2 is easiest. SCP over wifi is slow, difficult with adhoc network connections etc.17:48
maddlermitcheloc: yup... but I've no AP @ office...17:48
maddlerand you know... we don't like easy things... :D17:49
mitchelocwell honestly, i've not actually tried scp with the n800, but with other machines, if it's really slow then scratch that17:49
maddlermine works great... :)17:49
|tbb|jaffa, but without a bt device on your desktop no chance17:50
mitchelocwhat was the password? rootme?17:50
maddlerI'm also using fuse on my desktop to mount 770 filesystem over ssh :)17:50
mitcheloccrzy, i love how advanced everyone is here17:51
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mitchelocbut a part of me feels pain for those non-technical users out there, i feel they could benefit from a device like this (minus the crumy cam)17:51
* Jaffa finds a flaw with the N800: I've just lost my stylus when answering the phone.17:54
mgedminthat's why they put two styluses in the box :)17:54
dwdJaffa: Check down the back of the sofa.17:54
Takmitcheloc: once a lot of developers have their hands on the device, the non-technical users' pain will begin to diminish17:54
mgedminTak: you're very optimistic17:55
JaffaAh found it. I put it on top of my mobile, lying on its side.17:55
Takyes - for example, my coffee cup is 0% full17:55
mitchelocTak: i say we just commandeer the Firmware and publish our own!17:55
Takthe firmware isn't the issue (mostly)17:55
guru3is there an alternate window manager for maemo?17:56
Taksomebody got opie running on a 77017:56
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JaffaCoo, built-in Media Player plays `mplayer' preset 770-encoded videos.17:59
tzzJaffa: I just enter everything with my nose and nails, the stylus never comes out.  Reccommended!17:59
mitchelocthe n800 is sweet, i'm going to build an evdo/wifi router for my car :)18:00
mitcheloci could for example install a wifi camera in the car, and use the n800 to view it!18:00
* Tak makes a note to try playing bomberman with his nose18:00
guru3has the gameboy emulation improved since i last looked?18:01
tzzmitcheloc: you mean like a rear view camera?18:01
maddlerhmmm... has anyone ever thought about a "always on when on ac-power" hack for display?18:01
mitcheloctzz: yep, or anything i want18:01
Takguru3: no18:02
mitcheloci could have the camera upload pictures to my website if i wanted to18:02
tzzmitcheloc: well, looking at the inside of the glovebiox is definitely less exciting.18:02
guru3so the sound still lags and you still can't press two buttons at once?18:02
Takthe two-button thing is a hardware limitation18:02
Takthe NES emulation is pretty good18:02
tzzin the USA at least, EVDO is expensive, I'd rather store the images+video on the SD card and upload them later.18:02
guru3so i'll never beat supermario land :<18:03
Takthere are some buttons on the touchscreen to evade the two-button hack18:03
guru3weren't when i last looked18:03
Takguru3: I'm planning to add onscreen buttons for the gameboy emulation as well18:03
tzzdoes anyone find it annoying that the image viewer scrolls by 20 pixels or so, instead of a full screen?18:03
mitcheloctzz: $25 a month for evdo isn't expensive18:03
Takjust a matter of time18:03
tzzit makes looking at comics full size annoying.18:04
mitchelocor $60 at the most if you don't qualify18:04
tzzmitcheloc: plus the cell phone account, plus the router cost...18:04
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tzzmitcheloc: T-mobile are cheapest for service here in Boston, but they only have EDGE right now.18:05
mitcheloctzz: you don't have to  have a cell phone account?18:05
keesjI have a 3 euro 25 MB plain gprs deal18:05
mitcheloci walked into the wirless store and out with a free EVDO Rev A card, and a 2 year contract for $60/month18:06
tzzmitcheloc: are you sure?  That was the case when I checked last year with a kiosk.  But they may have tried to upsell me...18:06
mitchelocif you do some searching one of the wireless carriers has a developers plan, i switched to it and i'm on at $25/month18:06
mitchelocit's a secret though, so don't tell anyone :)18:06
tzzOK thanks, that's good to know.18:06
* Tak has Legend of Zelda flashback18:06
Molagihmm i got a little problem18:07
Molagii locked the touch screen and keys, now it wont open18:07
mitchelocmind you, i switched after i left the store, the guys there didn't have a clue about it, it's only on the website18:07
Molagii press the I button and after that the square18:07
Molagibut nothing happens18:08
mitchelocpress the power button then the middle enter button18:08
tzzI just want wifi everywhere, enough of the EVDO/EDGE/etc etc etc hacks.  WiMax is supposed to be the answer when it gets popular (if ever).18:08
Molagiim pressing it but nothing happens18:08
mitchelocevdo is 90% as good as wifi?18:08
Molagicant even reboot it18:09
Molagishould i just remove the battery?18:10
tzzmitcheloc: it's the compatibility that annoys me.  Everyone has wifi on their laptops, N800s, and now Nokia cell phones (E61 I think).  Why have so many other standards?18:10
tzzI know the answer too :)18:10
Takwhen wimax becomes mainstream, I will buy an N1200 and throw away my phone18:10
||cwbecause they solve different problems18:10
tzzthe N800 is already getting close to be a phone replacement.  I am eagerly waiting for the Skype client (unreleased yet, right?)18:11
mitcheloc^^ what he said18:11
||cwwifi is cheap, short range, unlicensed, easy to implement18:11
guru3so there will be a skype client in the end?18:11
mitchelocahhh, i meant, ||cw, they solve different problems18:11
Takit would be a phone replacement for me if I had universal net access18:11
mitcheloca SIP client is way more useful then skype!18:11
mitchelocTak, Thats where the evdo wifi router comes in!18:11
tzzmitcheloc: we already have a SIP client (Gizmo N800 edition).18:11
mitchelocyou have a mobile wifi router in your car that get's the 'net from evdo!18:12
Molagifucking hell what should i do18:12
mitcheloceverything else connects too it and routes through it18:12
Molagiill just let the battery worn it out18:12
Takhell, I probably can't even get evdo here18:12
Molagiafter that i can acces18:12
||cwoh, and wifi is hella fast.  evdo is longer range, licensed, lower power but also lower speed (in practic, not theory)18:12
Takbesides, what about when I'm not in my car?18:12
tzzcw: OK, I don't mean 802.11b/g, I mean wifi networking , including WiMax.18:12
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||cwwimax current only works well if you are standing still, fixed point18:13
mitchelocif you aren't in your house, you might be near someones wifi right?18:13
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mitchelocif thats also the case, you can use the bluetooth support and get an evdo enabled cell phone?18:13
Taksure, but then I'm back to having a phone18:13
mitcheloclook at this -- Take18:13
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tzzcw: I hope there's a solution eventually.  It's annoying, given our fast wi-fi networks, to have to essentially do dialup on the road.  Maybe the wimax problems will be worked out, I don't know.18:14
AaronL2tzz:  sorry, I didn't have a chance to look at the code last night18:15
AaronL2Tak:  any luck with the developer code?18:15
mitchelocthat KR1 is how they do voip at burning man18:15
AaronL2me neither18:15
mitchelocclick the case studies link18:15
Taknow that I know you're confirmed to be down for one, I'm waiting to hear from you :-P18:15
tzzAaron: no problem.  I cc-ed all the others in case someone has the time, but don't expect you to babysit my code :)18:16
AaronL2I was unofficially confirmed, we'll see18:16
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Takheh, an email from a nokian is pretty official18:16
Takparticularly since the code will just be another email from a nokian18:16
tzzAaron: I'm sure I18:18
AaronL2yeah, I know, but it would be nice to just be done with this, know for certain one way or the other18:18
philiplIndeed. Too much suspense. :-)18:19
tzzam missing something obvious at this point, or maybe the other GTK code in Emacs is overriding the events I set up.18:19
AaronL2tzz:  hmm, I'm not sure, I haven't looked at the code yet18:19
tzzI wish I had a good debugger in Maemo, instead I'm using printf() everywhere.18:19
AaronL2tzz:  perhaps you can provide already patched versions of the necessary files18:20
AaronL2instead of a patch18:20
AaronL2tzz:  use gdb18:20
AaronL2tzz:  on scratchbox18:20
Takthe gdb in the armel sdk is less than stellar18:20
AaronL2I rarely debug using the armel gdb18:20
AaronL2I use the PC SDK environment for debugging18:20
TakI rarely touch the pc sdk18:21
AaronL2well, I can understand that considering that you are developing xmame18:21
AaronL2but, it works fine for my purposes in developing VNC viewer18:21
* Tak nods18:21
AaronL2and it should be sufficient for emacs as well, I would think18:21
tzzAaron: I use gdb, I wish I had a good debugging environment I should say.18:22
AaronL2ah, well, I've been using gdb for many years18:22
Takddd is a nice frontend to gdb18:23
AaronL2so, I'm used to it, there is a good GUI wrapper for gdb called ddd, but it could be hard to get it working in scratchbox18:23
AaronL2heh, beat me to it18:23
Takwell, to [gxj]db18:23
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tzzAaron: why bother everyone with 200K+ of patched code when the patches are small and against the Emacs CVS?  Do you think it would make things easier?  I'd have to include a bunch of .h and .c files anyhow, for the frame struct for instance, so it's a lot of code.18:23
AaronL2tzz:  well, I don't know, but it would make it more convenient to examine it, did you have detailed instructions for which files to get?  or do I need to check everything out from CVS?18:24
tzzyeah, I would like to use DDD or something like it.  Actually I'd like to use Perl or Python.  Much easier to debug those :)18:24
tzzAaron: it's a good idea to check out everything, since gtkutil.c depends on a lot of other code under src.  Then do "configure --with-gtk; make"18:25
AaronL2tzz:  well, I mean, there is probably a minimal amount of code that has to be examined, for the purposes of reviewing it18:26
tzzapply the patch, and add the hildon libs to the Makefile flags under src.  That's it.18:26
AaronL2that's what I meant by sending a few files that are already patched18:26
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AaronL2theoretically, I should be able to figure it out without building it18:26
AaronL2I don't need the tons of include files and dependencies for this purpose18:27
tzzAaron: gtkutil.c, xterm.c.  I patched xterm.c just a little bit in my new patch, to initialize the HILDON_PROGRAM around gtk_init.18:28
AaronL2maybe you could send those files?18:28
AaronL2you can just send them to me if you want, but if it can be determined by inspection, then it would save me some time18:28
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greentuxis there a maemo 2.1 image ready to flash available?18:32
tzzAaron: and
greentuxTak:  ok, but is that not the same image i have on the "just arrived" 770?18:34
Takthere should be something in the control panel that tells you what version of the firmware you have18:35
Takmine still had os2005 when I bought it (in 9/2006)18:35
greentuxos 2006 2.2006.39-14 here18:36
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greentuxI thought there are some kinds of images... not only the official nokia version. some with more apps or so.18:36
Takwell, you can get more apps without reflashing18:37
Takthere are developer images, but they're not really suitable for day-to-day use18:37
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greentuxok, so "hotobecomeroot" howto and the apps pages are my friends, right?18:39
greentuxfor instance installing openvpn...18:40
Takin particular the garage, garage extras, and maemo-hackers repositories are your friends ;-)18:40
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greentuxTak:  thanks18:42
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greentuxTak:  can I see the assigned wlan adress on the maemo? (I have no root atm)18:54
Takyeah, it's available in the control panel18:54
TakDevice, About Product  I think18:55
Takwait, do you mean the IP address, or the MAC address?18:55
greentuxonly mac adresses18:55
greentuxI want the ip to ssh to she device...18:55
tzzxterm, then "ifconfig -a"18:55
Takif you have xterm installed, you can do `ifconfig`18:55
Takalternatively, there's
greentuxifconfig not found. i assume /sbin/ifconfig ... mom18:56
tzzTak: not behind NAT :)18:56
exocetYou need to be root18:56
Takgood point18:56
exocetsudo gainroot18:56
mgedminyou can see your IP from the user interface18:56
exocetthen rootme for password18:57
mgedminsomewhere in the connection manager18:57
mgedminthere's a menu item for that18:57
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Takah, I didn't know that @ mgedmin18:57
exocetReally ?18:57
greentuxI am in. ok18:57
mgedminof course, Real Men modify their dhcp servers to allocate a fixed IP and their DNS servers to give a name18:57
mgedminI wish zeroconf worked out of the box...18:58
greentuxmy connection manager hasnt something, but yterm was fine18:58
exocetYou can only see MAC adress in control panem18:58
Takmgedmin: yeah, I did that with mine ;-)18:58
exocetYou have to disconnect and to have a fixed IP (not DHCP) to be able to see it in connection manager ;)18:58
* Tak ssh user@nokia18:59
mgedminTask Navigator -> Tools -> Connection Manager -> Menu -> Internet connection -> IP address19:00
exocetTask navigator ?19:00
mgedminthe third big button on the left19:01
mgedminthe applications menu19:01
mgedminwhatever it's called19:01
exocetOK thanks for the tip19:01
greentuxmgedmin:  you are right... ok. :)19:01
Molagilol still cant get that touch screen lock open19:02
Molagiill never lock it again19:02
Molagicant even reboot it19:03
Takcould pull the battery if you get desperate19:03
Molagiis there a possibility it will break19:03
Molagiif i pull it19:03
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exocetonly if you have no luck19:04
exocetI did it several times already, it worked again19:05
Molagihow did you pull it19:05
Takhmm - would there an advantage to using yuv vs rgb for an sdl game?19:05
Molagii tried19:06
Molagiit wont come out19:06
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Molagilol i broke my nail19:07
exocetpull from the right side19:07
Takdamn man19:07
exocetyes its a bit hard19:07
exocetwhere it's written nokia19:07
Takat this point I'd be considering calling today a do-over and going to bed :-P19:07
Molagioh i got it19:07
Molagitried pulling it from the left19:07
Molagiworks now19:07
Molagigotta hope the square button work19:08
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tzzsquare button?19:08
tzzyou mean the SD card retainer?19:09
Molagihmm the one you push if you want full screen keyboard19:09
tzzthat's the "full screen" key19:09
Molagithe finger keyboard key19:09
tzzYou are confusing me.19:10
tzzThere's no finger keyboard key.19:10
Molagithe key which is rounded by the led things19:10
Molagiblue led light19:10
tzzDo you mean the D pad center button?19:10
jcml_There's a configuration setting to make the centre-of-the-d-pad key a "bring up full screen keyb".19:10
Molagiyeah the center button19:10
jcml_that's from a 770 perspective, tho.19:11
jcml_Not got my 800 yet ...19:11
tzzI see.  First time I hear it called that.  Anyhow.19:11
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tzzIf you pull the battery, the system needs to be restarted, it's off now (if you don't see the screen on).19:12
tzzPush the power button.19:12
extremehello everbody19:12
Molagiyeah i got it working19:12
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tzzMaybe you have a bad D pad or at least the center button is bad.19:13
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* bergie finally got the N800 :-)19:16
nomismine seems to be stuck in Duisburg.19:17
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jcml_Anyone know if UPS /try/ to deliver on a saturday?19:19
* Jaffa is liking his. Everything feels that much snappier.19:19
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Takjcml_: I think you have to request for them to do so19:20
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jcml_cool.  I'm getting it delivered to work, so /don't/ want it to sit in the security office all weekend ... :-)19:22
maddlerJaffa: time to head to home for me! ;)19:23
maddlerlater folks!19:24
Takmight be different for business deliveries19:24
exocetDid anyone try USB host ?19:25
exocetI've recompiled my kernel with USB host support but I don't have the needed hardware (external supply and cables)19:25
bedboiyep! i got the code !19:25
Jaffaexocet: me neither, I'm afraid.19:26
Takcongrats bedboi19:26
Jaffabedboi: yay!19:26
bedboithanks a lot!19:26
Jaffaexocet: put your kernel online and post a link on ITT forums - someone's bound to try it (e.g. Thoughtfix)19:26
exocetI've already sent it to thoughtfix ;)19:26
Jaffaexocet: ah, excellent :)19:26
exocetbut if anyone else want to try...19:27
bedboii'm going to use the code right now19:27
exocetBut I had to modify a source file, there was an error.19:28
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exocetBut since I'm beginning in C programming I don't know if that will work, I'm not a kernel hacker19:29
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Andy80where can I find a document that explain how to configure gpsd?19:34
keesjJipie my firstn800 crash!19:35
keesjfast reboot that was19:35
wumpuswell what I read is that N800 hasn't got the necessary wiring to support usb host19:38
wumpusso even if you got it into usb host mode it'd probably not work19:38
exocetI only saw that for OTG but not host support ?19:39
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wumpusyeah that was that discussion19:39
wumpusthought they meant host too that was the reason they removed it from the kernel19:40
exocetWhen I recompiled the kernel I had the choice "slave", "Host" or "OTG"19:40
exocetOK I understand19:40
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exocetIf, as the N770, you just need external power supply it won't be a problem.19:40
exocetI hope that is the case19:41
Andy80please I need your help :( I've just upgraded gpsd on my n770 and now the screen is black and the device doesn't power on anymore :( how can I fix it?! :(19:42
exocetWow bad news for you I think19:43
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Andy80I try removing battery19:43
exocetDid you try to remove the battery and test again ?19:43
Andy80I try now19:43
exocetlol ok19:43
wumpusdoes it still show the boot logo? if so, you can reflash the device19:43
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Andy80just 2 seconds... wait..19:44
Andy80yesh! It's starting now!19:44
AaronL2Tak:  it _finally_ arrived19:44
* Tak waits pseudo-patiently19:45
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zuhkeesj: you'll see more reguralry if you leave it sitting idle while connected to wlan (or at least that seems to be a common situation)19:45
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konfooi had a very strange wsod issue today19:48
konfooreflashed the n800.. no go19:48
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konfoofinally swapped the 770's battery with the n800.. and it booted up19:48
konfoothen i used the wall power to charge the 770 and it booted up19:48
Andy80why if i ssh into 770 and try to edit a file with vim it doesn't recognize the "Ins" mode?19:49
mgedminAndy80: do you mean the Ins key?19:50
mgedmin:set nocp perhaps?19:50
Andy80mgedmin: yes. When I edit something in my linux os, using vim, if I press "Ins" key I can edit the text, delete ecc...19:51
exocetuse "i" ;)19:51
exocetor "a" to append19:52
mgedmin<Insert> works for me19:52
mgedminbut then I have a .vimrc that disables cp, and I've compiled the vim myself with all sorts of features enabled19:52
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Andy80exocet: I think we are confusing vi with vim.... the keys are different... if you use vim under linux and you press the "Ins" key, you can edit the text like a usual text editor, like midnight commander for example. If I press "i" in vi and try to edito or cancel something I get BBBB CC on a row19:54
tzzAndy80: Insert is not a standard key in a terminal (Unix legacy).  It may or may not work depending on a lot of factors.19:54
Andy80tzz: ok... but the behaviuor of the application is different19:54
tzzAndy80: ditto for a lot of other keys like PageUp/Down, Home, End...19:54
ferenc(fyi: dev device program: Europe 2nd wave and US codes were sent out a few minutes ago)19:55
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Andy80with vim under linux I can use arrows, Del, and write the text I want, in the position I want19:55
tzzAndy80: you need gvim if you are not comfortable with vim's basic commands (o,i,a, etc.)19:55
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tzzNote the N800 runs Linux.19:55
Andy80tzz: is it available for 770?19:55
tzzYou mean "Ubuntu/Debian/etc"19:55
tzzAndy80: not AFAIK, and I'm not the one to port it :)19:56
Andy80tzz: I'm connected via ssh to the n770 and I've to edit a file inside it19:56
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tzzAndy80: You are running vim remotely over SSH on the N800?  The terminal translation is not working.  What does $TERM say when you SSH into the N800?19:58
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tzzNote the terminfo database may be very limited on the N800, I don't know what it has internally.19:59
mgedminAndy80: have you tried my suggestion?  (i.e. :set nocp)19:59
Andy80mgedmin: no sorry, I didn't notice it19:59
mgedminvim on my 770 recognizes all the cursor keys when I ssh into it19:59
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TakAaronL2: me too! :-D20:00
Andy80tzz: I'm connected from my debian machine to my n770, via ssh20:00
mgedminthe builtin busybox vi is mostly unusable (doesn't redraw the text correctly)20:00
tzzso type "echo $TERM"20:00
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*** Tak changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | | irc logs at | EU and US discount codes are out, for 2nd wave apply to |"20:01
tzzAndy80: are you sure you're using vim and not vi, also?20:01
Andy80tzz: yes20:01
Andy80(using the o,i,d style...)20:02
exocetoops sorry20:03
tzzI can't even imagine using vi with Ins/Del/Home/End/etc keys20:03
exocetMy SSH is very very slow20:03
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exocetDid anyone have some problems with ssh on n800 ?20:04
gpdTak: can I expect your new version in extras soon?20:04
tzzI think in terms of "oTEXT, ESCGoMORE TEXT, etc."20:04
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Takgpd: updated fceu is in extras now20:04
Takyour fixes and no debugging output ;-)20:04
Takplus save/load should be fixed20:05
gpdTak: sweet . will check now20:05
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maddlerdamn! my wife played me a joke!!! she hidden my N800!!!20:06
JaffaThat's just mean!20:07
Takmaddler: it's cheaper to buy another n800 than to file divorce papers ;-)20:07
maddlerI've been looking *everywhere*20:07
exocetSSH to it and make it play some sound :D20:07
gpdmaddler: is it online? ssh in and make some noise20:07
maddlerTak: well... killing her could be even cheaper... :D20:07
TakI dunno, good disposal can be expensive20:07
maddlergpd... it was just delivered by the UPS dude...20:08
JaffaMessy clean up, too20:08
gpdJaffa: what info are you after from my MUB bathing?20:08
Jaffagpd: problems you found, solutions, unanswered questions, where I should focus the documentation next, any features which'd make it easier/more reliable/faster etc.20:09
* Jaffa *loves* the new built-in stand.20:10
inzDid anyone try nginx?20:10
gpdJaffa: ok - i'll put something together for you.20:10
maddleroh... jaffa... does MUD creates the "debian" stuff by it's own?20:10
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gpdinz: no - but looks interesting - I wonder if it does fast-cgi php20:10
Jaffamaddler: yep - for autoconf stuff it should be right straight out of the gate, for Makefile-based stuff it *might* be right (depending on the structure of the makefile), otherwise you'll need to patch debian/rules20:11
keesjmaddler, yes, almost20:11
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Fatalyou rang?20:12
tzzsorry I had to vent20:12
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tzzthe RSS reader is rebooting the N800, I'm sure of it20:12
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tzzif I leave it overnight, it reboots if the RSS reader is running, but not otherwise20:12
c0ffeenow we know what r in rss stands for... reboot20:12
konfootzz: same problem here20:12
Takdoesn't opera have a builtin rss reader?20:13
Takat least on pc?20:13
tzzthe RSS reader is nice and I like it, unfortunately.  Google reader doesn't work well, and I haven't tried Opera (but I don't think it works IIRC)20:13
keesjtzz, the first thing I removed was the rss reader applet20:13
* Tak nods20:14
* Jaffa shoudl really test the video calling - but you lot could all be scary (or worse... fugly ;-))20:14
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keesjI have an open network (no security)20:14
* Jaffa doesn't want his nice shiny new screen broken20:14
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tzzJaffa: what, you're the flower of Provence?20:14
tzzthe rose of Morocco? :)20:14
Takthey'd put my picture next to "fugly" in the dictionary, except that there are laws against that sort of thing20:14
Jaffatzz: perhaps not.20:14
inzgpd, I've gotta resist doing it _now_, I've gotta clean up the house, my SO's been gone for the week, and she'd flip off, if I didn't clean ;)20:15
gpdinz: I hear you!  I need to stop playing Bubble Bobble!20:16
gpdTak: working well -- save and load too.  Great job.20:16
Takhow's the speed?20:16
mgedminit runs on the tablet?20:16
gpdnot too bad - playable enough - I am on level 420:17
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inzgpd, I'll try to take a look at it next week -- if I remember ;)20:17
Takyou can adjust the frameskip settings if necessary20:17
Takhow's the sound?20:17
inzgpd, if you're really interested in it, prod me on monday ;)20:17
gpdinz: i proted lighttpd to tablet in tar.gz form - and it worked well with dokuwiki20:17
inzgpd, ah, cool20:18
gpdinz: yeah - i'll give you a shout if i get there before you.  I am in discussion with one of the lead devs from drupal (chx) who want to use the N800 as the 'smallest dev platform' :)20:18
inzgpd, some website claimed that lighttpd leaked memory20:18
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tzzso is anyone selling their N800 code?  Just curious...20:18
gpdi know people that swear by lighttpd on their virtual server - myself i stick to apache2 - but this is a different thing!20:18
mgedminhm, the load applet is polling /proc/stat, /proc/meminfo and /proc/swaps once a second... would it be possible to use inotify on files in /proc and only update when something changes?20:19
inzgpd, I've concidered changing away from apache2 on my virtual server (the one that runs, but it's too much hassle20:20
gpdinz: agreed - and if you tune apache2 it ends up with a pretty low memory footprint20:20
inzgpd, and they just a while ago doubled the memory on the server20:20
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gpdinz: linode?20:20
inzgpd, tenue20:21
c0ffeenew discount codes on m-l seen20:21
c0ffeemgedmin, no20:21
c0ffeemgedmin, such applets are pretty good at draining the battery btw :)20:21
k-sexcellent: "This Nokia N800 discount code is for you" :-)20:22
gpdinz: - not finding yours20:22
c0ffeek-s are you from US, or 2nd wave?20:22
mgedminc0ffee: at least strace shows that the applet sleeps totally when the cover is on20:22
k-sc0ffee: I'm from Brazil!20:22
Andy80ok... help :) has anyone of you successfully connected kismet to gpsd?20:22
k-sc0ffee: I've some friends in finland, they'll bring mine20:23
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maddlerIT'S IN MY HANDS!!!20:24
c0ffeemine bops around in northern germany :/20:24
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tzzmaddler: if you were a urologist I'd be worried.20:24
c0ffeelets hope it makes it down here tommorow20:24
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inzgpd, mine is from (finnish only), I pay 36 eur/month, 256M, 15GB, unlimited transfer20:25
tzzmaddler: forgive your wife and enjoy the N800 :)20:25
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maddlertzz: forgive who? ;)20:29
maddlerwow... screen is a lot better than 77020:31
Takbetter in what way?20:31
* Tak waits for netrejoin20:31
Takseriously?  I could flag down planes with the 770...20:32
maddlerand better definition I'd say...20:32
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maddlerand feedback while tapping is more "pleasant"20:33
pbrookHi, I just got one of the developer N800 discount codes, and it doesn't seem to work. Is this the right place to ask about that?20:34
AaronL2it worked for me20:34
maddlerpbrook: yes and no...20:34
AaronL2it works after you go to the next page20:34
tzzlet me try it, pbrook ;)20:34
AaronL2I went to the US store20:34
nomisfrom what I've seen, the screen has less visible noise in its layers.20:34
maddlerpbrook: are you trying to use it on a "non US" shop?20:34
pbrookYes, I am.20:35
konfooi got my discount code :D20:35
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maddlerbut if you just received that I'd say it is an US invitation...20:35
Takmgedmin: fceu + xmaeme from extras for bubble bobble, btw20:36
pbrookIt says "To [...] buy the device, go to and" and quites the price in EUR.20:36
Takthe nseries site links to the us store20:37
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nomispbrook: are you based in the US?20:37
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pbrookI'm in the UK. I followed the second link.20:37
AaronL2I went to, there is a way to buy from there20:37
AaronL2total price came to $125 US20:37
pbrookAaronL2: And get it shipped outside the US?20:38
AaronL2well, I don't know abouut that20:38
nomispbrook: maybe you should contact the maemo team.20:38
AaronL2you probably need to go to the European site20:38
Takyeah, I would email quim and see what the deal is20:38
nomispbrook: they probably sent you an US-code by accident.20:38
nnodhow do they decide whether you're us-based or eu-based?20:38
pbrookOk, thanks. Will send email.20:38
nomisnnod: dunno, they got it right for me, but then I applied with my address for the first developers program.20:39
AaronL2maybe based on the time you write to the maemo-developers e-mail list :-)20:39
nomis... but then, I applied...20:39
hubthanks to the maemo team20:39
hubnow I have to figure out how to order it20:39
hubpbrook: I have also the problem20:40
konfoothis is fantastic :)20:40
nnodi got a code too, but i haven't tried to order yet...i'm in suisse with a canadian credit card...i expect it to be problematic20:40
hubpbrook: I'm not in the US20:40
hubnnod: I'm in canada, with canadian cc, and it might be the same20:40
hubnnod: try the european store20:40
TakI was wondering how they determined locality as well20:41
AaronL2there was a problem with my credit card20:41
AaronL2need to call some number20:41
AaronL2what a pain20:41
Takalthough I'm sure I mentioned mine in-channel, if they linked my irc nick to my email/garage20:41
TakAaronL2: there were a lot of reports of that with the eu devs too20:42
konfoototal discount: $27420:42
konfoocan't forget the .99!20:42
konfoough i got taxed on the 399 :(20:43
AaronL2no sales tax in Oregon :-)20:43
* konfoo shakes fist20:44
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AaronL2just talked to Nokia store person20:47
AaronL2the code is apparently not going through now20:47
hubahah, the nseries website is not accessible20:47
AaronL2maybe it went through for some of you20:47
hubrequires some proprietary crap20:47
AaronL2anyway, someone else has called too20:47
AaronL2they need to figure out what is going on20:47
AaronL2has anyone's US order gone through successfully?20:48
Takit'll be a few days before I can order mine20:48
AaronL2ah, well, the problems should be cleared by then20:48
TakI need to finish getting my car unsmashed first20:48
Takmake sure I don't get screwed over20:49
maddlerN800 feels more solid...20:49
* maddler is in love!20:49
konfoothe online order didnt take my cc.. so i call nokia and now they tell me the code is invalid20:50
maddlerkonfoo: did you alread got you order number?20:50
AaronL2konfoo:  I might have spoken to someone else20:50
AaronL2they need to figure out what the problem is with the code20:51
AaronL2the person I spoke to said he would get back to me by the end of the day20:51
AaronL2they don't know about the code yet20:51
AaronL2that's all20:51
AaronL2there might have been some miscommunication with the US site20:51
AaronL2I responded to the e-mail on maemo-develoeprs20:52
TakI thought the delay was specifically FOR communication with the US site ;-)20:52
ssvbTak: maybe they took timezone info from e-mail messages, also garage account allows to specify your country20:52
Takah, could be20:52
TakI don't think I specified on garage, though20:52
konfooyeah they have no clue20:52
hubI guess if the address form is the same for ordering and contacting, it ain't gonna work20:52
konfooits not the cc its the code thats the error20:52
hubfor have 6 letter/digit post code here20:52
AaronL2no order number, the order went through20:52
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AaronL2I mean20:52
AaronL2the order didn't go through20:52
konfooaaron also20:52
AaronL2Someone named Garrett had already called in20:53
konfoo'we are trying to resolve this with nokia corporate'20:53
AaronL2we'll see if I actually have a N800 in my hand by next week :-)20:54
AaronL2after all this build-up, I hope I'm not disappointed :-)20:54
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minraim bummed the hardware changed so much.. couldn't they have just put in more ram and a faster cpu?20:55
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Takminra: what part of the hardware change bums you?20:55
minrathat it changed so much that n800 environment is not backward compatible20:59
minraits a new computer essentially21:00
minrathree months time and this channel is not going to be doing anything around the 77021:01
TakI'm not going to stop working on the 77021:01
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c0ffeealso, it's new licenses21:01
guerbyAaronL2, hi, so you got the code, but there's a problem with the US site?21:04
bmidgleyargh the case isn't available at the us store21:04
bmidgleyplus I've tried two cards, both rejected21:04
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waiteMy discount code seems to take online. Maybe it is just the phones that are problematic21:06
AaronL2guerby:  yes :-)21:06
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guerbyAaronL2, hope you solve that :)21:06
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AaronL2guerby:  what are you going to do with your code now? :-)21:07
bmidgleyi guess $125 is the approximation of 99euro21:07
guerbyAaronL2, Frantisek suggested a mplayer/amemo hacker who didn't get a code in the first round21:07
Tak99 eur is currenly $12821:08
Takhooray $3 !!!21:08
Takroope: what's the heading say?21:08
guerbyAaronL2, about vncviewer feature, when using firefox through vncviewer, I wasn't able to middle or right click on a link (because you first need to move the cursor over, and the only way is by tapping which does left click)21:09
guerbyAaronL2, I'd suggest adding a "middle" and a "right" modifier in the spirit of Shift/Ctrl/Alt that adjusts the next tap21:09
AaronL2guerby:  Detlef is making some changes that will alter the behavior of the + and - button21:09
AaronL2guerby:  it will now act as a modifier key, the modifier will be configurable21:10
guerbyAaronL2, whatever that works without user stress :)21:10
AaronL2already in the works :-)21:10
AaronL2well, you could also click the link21:10
AaronL2then use a keyboard command to go back21:10
AaronL2or, you could have the mouse cursor already in the right spot21:10
AaronL2before going to the web page :-)21:11
guerbyAaronL2, yep but it generates full refreshes (that's what I did) so not that reactive21:11
AaronL2yeah, I'm only kidding, the new technique that will be in the next version will work a lot better21:11
guerbyAaronL2, great :)21:11
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AaronL2+ / - will be configurable--ctrl, alt, shift, middle, right, mouse movement without pressing, and local dragging of display21:12
guerbyAaronL2, while I'm at it, why is the Fx menu split in two?21:12
AaronL2guerby:  maemo UI conventions--it is recommended to have a maximum number of items in a menu21:12
AaronL2there is a document at maemo.org21:12
qgilhi, anybody using elisa modem + wlan access point at home (in Finland)?21:12
guerbyAaronL2, well I'm all for an exception here :) the app menu are overflowing anyway21:13
roopeThat contains popular finnish expressions, translated into English.21:13
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AaronL2guerby:  do you think there is enough room for all the function keys?21:13
AaronL2in a single menu?21:13
AaronL2I rarely, use the function keys, so if it is going to be more convenient, I have no problem making the change as long as there is enough room21:14
guerbyAaronL2, visually I'd say yes21:14
qgilcan it be possible that this adsl connection doesn't allow the connection of more than 1 laptop to the wireless network? (sorry for the offtopic, kinda desperate)21:14
AaronL2k, I'll make the change for the next release :-)21:14
AaronL2qgil:  that's usually a feature of the VPN type, if you are using VPN21:15
qgilno no, just plain connections21:15
guerbyAaronL2, may be change the menu by a popup with all the key and modifiers at once (multiple columns)21:15
AaronL2guerby:  I'm not sure I follow21:15
guerbyAaronL2, a bit like the virtual keyboard21:15
AaronL2btw, you know that you can access the special key menu from the standard menu too, right?21:15
AaronL2this is convenient when in full screen mode21:16
qgilin Spain we had this access point directly connected, many computer could connect to the wlan and work properly21:16
guerbyAaronL2, yes21:16
AaronL2guerby:  just checking :-)21:16
qgilnow in Helsinki, this same access point is connected to the adsl modem provided by elisa, but apparently just one laptop can connect at a time - which doesn make much sense (to me)21:16
guerbyAaronL2, one hard key touch plus four taps to reach F12 is not my definition of convenient :)21:16
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AaronL2qgil:  what if you are directly connected to the router?21:17
AaronL2as opposed to wirelessly?21:17
timelessthe elisa adsl router i got lets me connect a 770 an n800, a 9300i, and a dell latitude d610 all at once21:18
guerbyAaronL2, is my suggestion of having a virtual-keyboard like mod/function key menu doable?21:18
timelessand probably others, i can use more if someone wants me to check21:18
AaronL2guerby:  so, the popup wouldn't be a menu, but more of a vk thing21:18
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guerbyAaronL2, exactly, taking advantage of added screen real estate to present all at once21:18
timelesssvn up?21:18
timelessoops, wrong window :)21:18
AaronL2guerby:  I think it is doable, but it would be a lot of work :-)21:18
guerby(menu is wasting lots of horiz space21:19
guerbyAaronL2, well that's a suggestion :)21:19
AaronL2guerby:  what do you prefer, this feature in VNC or rdesktop? :-P21:19
AaronL2guerby:  it's a good suggestion21:19
guerbyAaronL2, I haven't tried rdesktop, did you do the port too?21:19
qgilAaronL2: i'll try more combinations, now that I know that least someone got it to work  :)21:19
AaronL2no, I haven't started working on rdesktop21:19
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AaronL2the earlier effort done by someone else isn't really much of a port21:19
* rev wishes there was an rdesktop FOSS server21:20
revit's performs so much better than VNC21:20
AaronL2Detlef and I will work on rdesktop, most likely, as are next project21:20
guerbyAaronL2, what are relative vnc vs rdesktop strength?21:20
TakI might have time/ability to help with rdesktop, if desired21:20
AaronL2guerby:  you can specify the desktop size you want at the client level21:20
revguerby: rdesktop is a TON faster than VNC21:20
guerbyrev, protocol or implementation or both?21:20
AaronL2with rdesktop--I think that is one of the main benefits for a device like the 770/N80021:20
Taknot only desktop size, but bit depth21:20
AaronL2right, that too, also, sound is sent21:21
AaronL2because of the ability to pick the desktop size (bit depth is supporrted in VNC), it makes it more convenient for connecting to Windows systems21:21
revguerby: not sure - but the FOSS rdesktop client running on linux or OS X and connecting to a windows RDP server performs similarily to the real RDP client running on a Windows machine... a little slower, but still a ton better than VNC for the same setup and bandwith21:21
guerbyrev, also does our Linux xorg server support rdesktop right now?21:21
AaronL2it isn't simply to create a VNC server for windows that is 800x48021:21
AaronL2guerby:  I think there is a Linux rdc server21:22
guerbyrev, what rdesktop client are you using on Linux?21:22
AaronL2rdp, actually21:22
revguerby: i don't think there is any RDP server fr linux, is there?21:22
AaronL2most Loinux versions come with rdesktop21:22
revAaronL2: a rdesktop client, though21:22
AaronL2rev:  there is, Detlef pointed out one to me yesterday21:22
AaronL2I thoguht that there wasn't one as well21:22
revAaronL2: and when it says "Remote Desktop" it refers to VNC- at least what i've seen in GNOME/Ubuntu21:22
keesjrev, I am not 100% sure21:22
revguerby: rdesktop is the client-  RDP is the protocol; i've used just what comes on the Ubuntu 5.04 LIveCD21:23
guerby$ apt-cache search rdesktop21:23
guerbygnome-rdp - Remote Desktop Client for the GNOME Desktop21:23
guerbygrcm - GNOME application to initiate connections to remote machines21:23
guerbygrdesktop - GNOME frontend for the rdesktop client21:23
guerbyrdesktop - RDP client for Windows NT/2000 Terminal Server21:23
guerbytsclient - front-end for viewing of remote desktops in GNOME21:23
guerbykrdc - Remote Desktop Connection for KDE21:23
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TakI use grdesktop on pc21:23
revAaronL2: ooh, tasty! i wonder how well it performs21:23
AaronL2tsclient basically just calls vncviewer or rdesktop as appropriate21:23
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AaronL2rev:  no idea21:23
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guerbyAaronL2, rev, no server in my apt-get, what's the name of the Linux rdp server?21:23
revguerby: AaronL2 just posted the link ... xrdp.sourceforge.net21:24
AaronL2where did you find grdesktop?21:24
ssamis this the right place to ask about the website?21:24
guerbyrev sorry I missed it21:24
ferencssam: yes21:24
Takin apt :-P21:24
revAaronL2: look at what guerby pasted21:24
AaronL2yes, I saw, but I wonder where it can be found, never heard of it21:24
revis grdesktop any better/different?21:24
ssamon the formatting of the source code examples make them almost unreadable21:24
revor is it just a gnome front end to rdesktop?21:25
Takrev: that's all it is21:25
AaronL2grdesktop is a gnome frontend to rdesktop21:25
AaronL2not all that helpful21:25
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revssam: for such acomplaint, you might want to email someone- not sure who, look around on the site... there might be a website maintainer here in channel, but the bulk of us have nothing to do with maemo.org21:25
guerbyrev, RDP does allow to take control of an existing session?21:25
ssamrev ok thanks21:25
guerbyAaronL2, ok21:26
revguerby: yeah, but it boots the other person off- you can't have two people connected at the same time (to my knowledge)21:26
guerbyrev, ah not fitting my main use of vncviewer then21:26
AaronL2gnome-rdp might be interesting though:
guerbyrev, I wonder what my Windows admin are using at work (they move my mouse when I ask them something)21:27
AaronL2guerby:  not necessarily, it doesn't always boot someone off21:27
AaronL2not for server installations of Windows21:27
AaronL2and that wouldn't be the case on Linux21:27
guerbyAaronL2, ah ok21:27
AaronL2the booting someone off is true for Windows XP Professional21:27
AaronL2and Vista21:27
revguerby: i'm not saying VNC has no uses, far from it! i've just found that the RDP protocol performs a ton better than VNC- using rdesktop over a cable link to connect to my work Windows XP PC for most things performed just as well as if i was sitting down at the machine itself21:28
AaronL2Windows XP Home doesn't support remote desktop as a server, I think21:28
ferencssam: ok, got it. you are absolutely right. i will mail the appropriate guys about the problem.21:28
revguerby: they might be using either21:28
ferencssam: thanks!21:28
ssamferenc, thanks21:28
timelessferenc: hey21:28
timelesstak: ping21:28
AaronL2ferenc:  quick question, I've been told that .install files can support multiple versions of the OS21:28
Taktimeless: pong?21:28
ferenctimeless: hello21:28
timelessi'm encountering a problem doing a svn up21:28
guerbyrev, too bad we can't have the best of both worlds (at least on the Linux side) performance and shared control21:28
ferencAaronL2: yes, true21:28
timelessi'm wondering if someone can talk me through what i'm allowed to do to files in the svn repos21:29
AaronL2ferenc:  if that is the case, would it be possible for garage packages, when uploaded to the repository, to be combined into a single .install file?21:29
Takwhat are you trying to do?21:29
AaronL2ferenc:  currently, garage creates one .install file for each Os version21:29
ferencAaronL2: yes, i am thinking about it :)21:29
AaronL2ferenc:  very cool :-)21:29
revguerby: shared control can be done with RDP- it just isn't the default way; for instance, shared control via RDP is what windows help request in XP does21:29
aCiDBaSessam: take a look at the updated version:
Takwhere do the autogenerated .install files get dumped?21:29
ferencAaronL2: but it is difficult to know by the scripts which application works on both OSes.21:29
guerbyrev, thanks for these info21:30
AaronL2Tak:  ferenc documented this in an e-mail post to maemo-developers some time ago21:30
revguerby: no prob!21:30
Takok, will search21:30
AaronL2ferenc:  I imagine, maybe there would be some way for developers to indicate, when uploading a package, which OSs are targeted?  not sure21:30
ssamaCiDBaSe, thanks21:31
AaronL2ferenc:  or, perhaps, it would be possible to upload all packages at once... somehow21:31
ferencAaronL2: yes, the ultimate goal is to upload 1 source package and our build system makes the various binaries for all OSes21:31
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ferencAaronL2: we are far from it..21:31
ferencAaronL2: not because of technical reasons..21:32
AaronL2ferenc:  right, but I was thinking of maybe being able to upload all the packages at once, that would indicate to the system that a single .install file should be created for all of them21:32
AaronL2ferenc:  right legal stuff :-(21:32
ferencah, ok.21:32
ferencAaronL2: yep.21:32
ferencAaronL2: well, we have a non public upload queue, called: all :)21:33
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AaronL2ferenc:  I guess I can just easily create my own .install file, it won't be hard, but was just thinking it would be nice if the process were automated :-)21:34
ferencAaronL2: sure. if you want we can make a test. do you have upload account to garage?21:35
AaronL2I'm "Aaron Levinson"--I've contacted you before :-)21:35
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ferencAaronL2: just checked it :)21:35
ferencAaronL2 : ok. let me prepare that 'all' queue. i will let you know when you could upload there something.21:36
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AaronL2cool, sounds good--what would I upload to it?21:36
AaronL2I have different packages for bora and mistral/scirocco21:36
ferencAaronL2: well, an application that works on all :) : mistral, scirocco, and bora21:37
Taktimeless: repong?21:37
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AaronL2hmm, because of the libxau0 thing, I'm not sure if that's possible21:37
AaronL2at least for VNC viewer21:37
AaronL2it could be an empty package though21:37
AaronL2that is just for the purpose of getting a proper .install file generated21:37
TakI have a package that works on all...21:37
timelesstak: i need a channel21:38
ferencAaronL2: it can be an empty one, but would be nice to have a real21:38
ferencTak: what's is that?21:38
Takit's just a simple hildon launcher app21:38
ferencTak: right21:39
ferencwell, we could experiment with this all thingy, though it will not be officially supported from today onwards :)21:40
AaronL2ferenc:  that's cool, perhaps for now, it makes sense to create a .install file by hand, it doesn't need to be done very often21:40
AaronL2plus, it will continue to work for future releases of a package21:41
AaronL2and only needs to be updated when a new OS comes out21:41
AaronL2ferenc:  on a separate note, I know that I've pestered you about this before, and no comment is a fine answer, but any chance of connecting statistics for a garage project to repository downloads? :-)21:42
TakI'm interested in that as well21:42
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roopeQuite harsh comments in Ari's blog.21:43
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ferencAaronL2: the stats are diffcult, because the deb downloads are handled by a large caching network21:43
ferencand collecting figures from there can not be automated :((21:43
keesjhow about installing it2006 on the n800?21:44
ferencwe have no access to their logs, only by special request. and then they send some "almost like a word document"21:44
ferencAaronL2: on the other hand often downloads are done by robots.21:44
AaronL2ferenc:  another idea I had, not sure if it is feasible, is to have some code stored in the package that is automatically called when it is downloaded21:45
revmmm robots21:46
AaronL2not sure what is meant by robots here21:46
Takooo, like a popcon!21:46
Taklike googlebot21:46
Takwe can just port popcon to maemo/garage21:47
* Jaffa should debificate his modification of the default N800 theme to use 12.75pt fonts21:47
waiteSo US codes are broken but I FINALLY got an order in over the phone. The shipment will be delayed for a few days until the code becomes valid or mgr override.21:47
AaronL2Tak:  could you elaborate?  how is the popcon informed of the download?21:48
keesjJaffa, yes , eat your own dog food21:48
ferencAaronL2: there could be 1 solution though. the code in the package is not really nice, it is a kind of trojan horse to me.21:48
Jaffakeesj: I was pondering whether to use MUD for it, indeed :-)21:48
AaronL2ferenc:  yeah, not ideal21:48
ferencbut we may have 1 chance to see what is downloaded, i have to look into that21:48
X-FadeJaffa: Gimme, gimme. I think the default font is _way_ to large ;)21:48
zyxulnagahas anyone tried how long the batter lasts for in the n800 with full cpu usage?21:48
waitecant call 866-59nokia to make order tho21:48
AaronL2ferenc:  it could be some sort of extra field stored in the control file21:48
Takwaite: what number, then?21:49
AaronL2ferenc:  similar to how an icon is added in21:49
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waiteYou may need to get above level 1 support they just type it into the web site. I had to escalate to L@ where Susan helped me.21:50
* Tak archives21:50
zyxulnagaI mean from full charged to no battery under 100% cpu load21:50
AaronL2Tak:  so, popcon requires that users inform it that they have downloaded a package?21:50
waiteShe got approval to accept the order but a mgt member needs to approve it and it might take a day or two before shipping.21:50
TakAaronL2: it's a package that you install, which subsequently reaps info from apt21:50
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AaronL2Tak:  ah, the user has to install it21:51
AaronL2Tak:  might not work so well in this case, why would users want to install it?21:51
Takto be helpful ;-)21:51
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AaronL2hehe, so they can send even more information that they don't know about to Microsoft? :-P21:52
Takmicrosoft?  it's a debian thing21:52
AaronL2I know, I was kidding21:52
Takthe incentive is to be part of the result, I suppose21:52
AaronL2yeah, perhaps21:52
Takthe same reason people participate in hotornot.com21:52
keesjthere is not enough porn on the 770 to let people care about privacy21:53
Takkeesj: wait until we have 32G sdhc ;-)21:53
keesjand a webcam.21:53
Takn800 takes care of that21:53
keesjand apps with names like gizmo21:54
AaronL2that bluetooth device that Thoughtfix has mentioned sounds interesting, the portable hard drive21:54
keesjand the connected wii remote that can be made to move from a remote location21:54
JaffaX-Fade: (before I upload it)21:54
X-FadeJaffa: Ok, let me test.. ;)21:55
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tzzI'm getting the PS3 BT remote for my cousin as a gift.  I may try it with the N800, it might work.21:57
tzzHas anyone tried?21:57
X-FadeJaffa: I get a 404?21:57
JaffaAh, I typoed:21:58
JaffaSorry about that.21:58
X-FadeJaffa: "Incompatible package application"21:59
JaffaYou could do something clever with post.inst scripts to auto shrink the font on all currently installed themes.21:59
JaffaX-Fade: doh, hang on21:59
nomisHmm. Wiimote. Interesting idea - I have one   :)21:59
JaffaX-Fade: try again (and thanks for testing)21:59
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X-FadeJaffa: The theme name is Adria ;)22:01
JaffaX-Fade: arse. Well, it's smaller, hence the lack of the "d" ;-)22:01
X-FadeAh, well that is a big difference. Finally no 'blurry' font.22:01
X-FadeThis size is much better..22:02
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JaffaBah, the wiki seems to be down so I can't work out how to upload something to extras22:13
Takyou have a garage account?22:15
hapthat wiki isn't perfect for adding "wish list" btw22:15
Milhousemaemo bugzilla down too?22:15
JaffaTak: yeah, I was wondering about the dput.conf22:15
feren1the whole is down :(22:15
Jaffaah, lo feren122:16
Milhouseferen1: looks that way!22:16
TakI was going to point you to an email referencing my, but the archive is down ;-)22:16
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JaffaOf course, I've not yet entered my SSH keys in garage, so that could be interesting ;-)22:17
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keesjyou need the ssh and gpg key22:18
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ferencthe ssh key must be an RSA one22:20
inzgrr, application manager requires an install file to be named .install22:20
inzmod_rewrite to the rescue!22:20
desrtany idea on when the countries of n800 availability will increase?22:21
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inzI created a php script that checks, if a package is in my mistral/bora repositories and creates an .install file with the appopriate fields22:22
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inzBut application installer didn't cope with that, so I needed to make mod_rewrite rule ^(.*)\.install$ /install.php?package=$122:24
ajbarranyone here that can help me with getting an N800 with a discount code?22:24
ferencthanks for someone who reacted so quick22:24
ajbarri'm having no luck with the site or on the phone22:24
Taktry 888-665-4228 and ask for L2 ?22:24
ajbarrthey had no idea what I was talking about either :-/22:25
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Jaffaferenc: I deleted one of my mailing lists because I thought I'd lost the password, and recreated it - but it's not been authorised yet22:29
Zmanui have an n770 with os2006, so logically i must install armel package, but when i download ncurses-bin_5.5-1_armel.deb i have an error, i can't install22:30
Zmanuis someone can explain to me why ?22:30
ferencJaffa: you need it immediately?22:31
ferencthere is a cron job which takes care of that once an hour22:31
Jaffaferenc: no, it's just been a dyay or so22:31
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Jaffaferenc: ah, that's broken then22:31
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ferencok, lemme check.22:32
TakZmanu: is this within the application manager?22:32
Takthe app manager only supports debs in the user/* groups22:33
Zmanuand what can i do ?22:33
Takto install other debs, you either need to do it at the command line as root, or use "red pill mode" in the app manager22:33
Zmanuto install i use dpkg -i package.deb ?22:34
Zmanulike in debian22:34
Zmanuthanks i go to try22:34
JaffaTechnology *ROCKS*22:36
ferencJaffa: can you check the list now?22:37
maddlerJaffa: and N800 rocks more!!!22:37
Jaffaferenc: says "No such list", despite it being the link from the "Mail admin" page22:38
ferencJaffa: checking it22:39
guerbyI see a busybox 3:1.1.3-3.sdk2 update, what does it add?22:39
JaffaHmm, I've not got a current GPG/PGP key. Best get one.22:39
nelsonCool.  Email still works from Finland to the US.22:40
Jaffaferenc: thanks22:40
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Taknelson: oh?  I heard the tube was clogged22:41
sxpertTak, use liquid plummer :D22:41
ZmanuTak: dpkg -i change nothing impossible to install them22:42
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dwdSo... US codes went out today, right? What time?22:42
Zmanuarmel is not for os2006 on n770 ?22:42
guerbynelson, congrats :)22:42
inzZmanu, yes it is22:42
Zmanuso why some can't be install on my n779 ?22:43
inzWhat does it say?22:43
Zmanunot compatible22:43
inzdpkg says not compatible?22:43
dwdI ask because I got a code today, and the UK shop rejects it. In red letters, and everything. So I'm wondering if Nokia think I'm from the states.22:44
Takdwd: I got mine ~noon cst22:44
dwdTak: What's that in a real timezone? ;-)22:44
Zmanunot dpkg but install manager22:44
TakI'm gmt-6 iirc22:44
dwdTak: It's 20:44 UTC (GMT+0000)22:44
inzZmanu, that's because ncurses-bin's Section isn't user/something22:45
Zmanuerror is "is not a debian core"22:45
TakI have 14:4422:45
Zmanuinz: i don't understand user/something22:45
dwdDamn. I have a US code, most likely, then. Almost worth emigrating, except nobody can make a decent cup of tea over in the colonies.22:46
inzZmanu, in debian, all packages have a "section" defined. maemo application manager requires this section to start with "user/" in order to install it22:46
Takmeh, you're better off where you are22:46
Zmanuhow can i do that ?22:46
Takdon't worry, even people in the US are having trouble with the US codes ;-)22:46
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pbrookdwd: Apparently the US shop is also broken, so I'm still hopeful.22:46
inzZmanu, short answer: you can't, long answer: install the development environment, get the source and rebuild the package22:46
pbrookIt does quote the price in euros, and have a link to the EU shop...22:47
dwdYeah, mine does, too, come to think of it.22:47
Takmine is the same, though22:47
Zmanuinz: why package in maemo-hacker doesn,'t be build ro work22:48
dwdTak: Oh - link to the site?22:48
Takyeah22:48 and
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inzZmanu, i never though someone would like to install the ncurses-bin package22:48
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inzZmanu, (otoh, it would collide with busybox)22:48
Zmanuinz: thanks for answer22:50
inzMmh, I wonder, if someone's borrowing my wlan22:51
AaronL2based on the e-mails I'm seeing to maemo-developers, it seems that this US coupon code thing is a never-ending nightmare22:51
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AaronL2my session has probably already timed out22:52
AaronL2and my coupon code may no longer work22:52
inzAaron, yankees gotta earn their discount ;)22:52
AaronL2what do you consider "earning" a discount? :-)22:52
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inzAaron, in this case: do some work for it ;)22:53
AaronL2well, that should be no problem22:53
hubAaronL2: let alone in Canada....22:55
* hub ask the list.22:55
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*** Tahitibob has quit IRC23:01 i just tried my new transcend 4GB card as inner memory card in n800, when i powered device it started "rebooting" and i had to take battery off. Now when i put old card back it shows nokia logo and then shutdowns :(23:02
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Jaffaferenc: 404?23:07
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ferencJaffa: i don't get it. when i sent you the link it was OK.23:07
ferencsomething is really screwed up with gforge..23:08
ferenc Jaffa: now it is ok23:09
ferencbut i think the list is still marked deleted in the DB23:09
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ferencso next time the cron runs, it will remove it..23:09
Jaffaferenc: excellent, thanks.23:09
ferencnow checking the DB23:09
JaffaSo deleting a list and recreating it is a Bad Idea23:09
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ferencJaffa: well, it seems so.. something was not cleaned up properly.23:12
JaffaExcellent, the VidConvert bookmarklet works much better in Opera 8.5.23:14
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waiteAaronL2 you are fine. I just cleared my cart, which had the coupon. And tried to reapply to a new order and it was fine. I did not complete the transaction because I did it over the phone.23:15
dwdwaite: You didn't snarf two at the discount price? :-)23:15
waiteNo. I thought it was only usable for one and I would not abuse even if I could have :)23:16
waiteI am happy to have it ordered at all23:16
ferencJaffa: yes, my guess was correct23:16
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ferencone table in the DB was not updated properly23:16
ferencthere was an other list which had the same problem23:17
Jaffaferenc: excellent, good catch23:17
dwdwaite: Yeah. Mine seems to be a US code. I get "The code you entered is not valid" from the UK shop, which doesn't appear to be the same problem as the US problems.23:18
waiteright. Call the US shop at the phone # I sent to the list and you can get it ordered. I warned her of the impending flood :)23:19
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inzgah, building ncurses takes ages...23:20
inzAnd makes my legs burn23:20
dwdwaite: DOubt I can order it from the US shop either, being a Brit.23:21
Aleksandyrthe US shop is working now?23:21
waiteDwd, you should mail quim and ask for an EU code instead.23:21
pbrookHmm, the US site appears to have a UK shop that's different to the UK shop on the EU site...23:22
waitepbrook, that might be the most confusing thing I have heard all day23:22
pbrookSo I guess that might work once they unbreak the codes.23:23
pbrookInterestingly, the UK-via-US shop has free delivery, the UK-via-EU shop charges £5.23:23
waitepbrook, right. I think once Nokia Eurpoe is awake things will get resolved.23:24
guerbyTak, do you know a place where there are at least one legit download for mame/gba/nes ? (so I can test xmaeme :)23:25
Aleksandyrguerby, I'd say to look up "gba homebrew" or "gba homebrew demo"23:25
zyxulnagaxmame plays gba and nes games?23:25
dwdwaite: I dropped a mail to team@maemo, since that's where the code came from.23:25
guerbyzyxulnaga, xmaeme is a frontend to xmame + virtualboy + fceu (nes)23:26
dwdpbrook: Oooh. Cheap delivery. Cool. :-)23:26
zyxulnagaahh nice23:26
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Takone sec23:27
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Takdid they get the coupon stuff sorted out now?23:28
* gpd notes
waitetak, I think everyone is afraid to try23:30
hapi rather would use a crypted fs on the MMC23:30
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waitewith somne patience you can place an order with your code right now . You just might be on the phone for 30 mins and trying to breathe deeply with clueless CSRs23:31
hapfor the US police at the airport not seeing my child porn on my sd cards... you go to jail for that don't you ?23:31
nomiswaite: that sounds like fun.23:31
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waitenomis, it is painful but it works.23:32
AaronL2tried my order again just now--it went through!!!!23:32
JaffaAaronL2: excellent23:32
nnod_are you guys ordering from europe?23:32
AaronL2US for me23:32
AaronL2someone just wrote to the e-mail list that his US order went through via the on-line system, so I just tried again23:32
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AaronL2Jon  Smirl23:33
jonnylambhey all. i want to buy the n800 from the UK site with a discount code. is it actually working? i've heard many stories here and on maemo-developers..23:34
dwdjonnylamb: Did you get your code today, around 1700 onwards?23:34
guerbyTak, thx23:34
jonnylambdwd: certainly did- 172123:34
dwdjonnylamb: Same time as me. My code doesn't work, at least on the UK site. Possibly it's a US code.23:35
guerbyTak any advice on a fun free game?23:35
jonnylambdwd: ah. the email does link to however...23:35
Takwell, elite definitely does *not* work23:35
dwdjonnylamb: Apparently, so do the yanks' ones.23:36
jonnylambdwd: i haven't actually tried it yet. i don't want to do something wrong and void the code..!23:36
jonnylambdwd: someone in the mailing list did!23:36
inzmmh, Zmanu left already -- but now there is a ncurses-bin in maemo-hackers repository that is application installable23:36
Takother than that, no recommendations23:36
dwdjonnylamb: Mine's rejected outright, so it's probably safe to try.23:36
* dwd food &23:36
jonnylambdwd: okay thanks :)23:37
guerbyTak, funny elite was my first download :)23:37
Takfceu doesn't handle the rendering correctly for elite23:37
TakI'm not sure if the game is misusing a mapper, or if fceu's mapper impl is lacking23:38
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* maddler on 800!!!23:39
|tbb|what r those files unde /etc like pointercal-ls041y3-0401.default23:39
Jaffawoohoo :)23:39
maddlerwonderful device!23:39
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maddlerI'm really in *love*23:40
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guerbyTak, hmm not one game working so far23:41
Taktbh, I've only tried proprietary roms, with the exception of elite23:41
inzmaddler, I was in love until I popped out the camera and saw my picture on it... that was really a turnoff23:42
inzmaddler, w/ the device, that is, I still am love w/ my SO23:42
hapinz: when I saw i couldn't see myself and had to move left, that was a _real_ turnoff23:43
* Jaffa turned his camera around, saw Mrs Jaffa and then the N800 got even better ;-)23:43
Jaffahap: yeah, that's a pain23:44
guerbyTak ok remove time23:44
timelesszfs :)23:44
inzhap, I agree, the first time I saw the webcam work I realised, that this is a major design issue23:44
timeless=> hap23:44
hapi found so much issues like that,23:45
Lyndonhave anyone else had these problems with n800 starting up (i'll see only nokia logo and it shutdowns), could flashing or something else help??23:45
hapi'm making a "wish list" system for the last few hours, to write them down and have a nice list.23:45
hapso everyone can add their owns23:45
hap(rails powered)23:45
Jaffahap: cool. I suppose could do it - I should really finish it (grails powered)23:45
timelessferenc: sometime middle of next month i'll try to catch up w/ you and try to get it on garage23:45
tzzLyndon: I've had that when the battery was weak23:45
|tbb|Tak, how about the speed on the n800 running nes emulator23:45
timelessferenc: atm, i'm trying to get those changes stable and such23:46
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Tak|tbb|: tbh, I've had mixed reports23:46
hapJaffa: mm probably, let me finish mine first23:46
hapat last i'll publish the svn code for it, i'll use it for later23:46
|tbb|Lyndon may battery goes out23:46
Lyndon:) when i'll put charger in, it reboots whole time23:46
Takspeed is ok on 770 though, so even if it's a little slow now on n800, it can definitely be improved23:46
hapJaffa: what's grails ? :)23:46
Lyndonnokia flashes and goes black23:46
|tbb|ok then setup following, mom23:46
hapJaffa: you have nice icons ;)23:46
|tbb|flasher-3.0  --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset23:47
Jaffahap: a JVM-based Groovy-powered version of Rails23:47
|tbb|that helps me too23:47
hapah ok23:47
hapJVM, you mean java?23:47
Jaffahap: indeed23:47
zyxulnagawhat the no-lifeguard reset does?23:47
|tbb|what for icons u read about23:48
zyxulnagait doesnt reset incase of a crash?23:48
guerbyfceu doesn't remove properly (it leaves stuff in /home/user/.fceultra )23:48
ferenctimeless: ok23:48
Jaffaguerby: that's standard Debian package behaviour23:48
guerbyJaffa, ok23:49
Takthat stuff isn't part of the package; it's generated by fceu at runtime23:49
|tbb|yes it seems so, if some service broked to much it will never load again so it end up in endless reboot i think ive heard that23:49
Lyndon|tbb|: thanks... find a post for it
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Takguerby: did you get any of the homebrew games to work?23:50
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Lyndonfirst thought that it was my new 4GB SD card messing around :O23:50
guerbyTak, five try none working, I removed everything (xmame, xameme, fceu and visual)23:51
maddlerJaffa: which file you said is to be fixed to fix BT?23:51
Takdid they not launch at all?  or did they run, just not correctly?23:52
Jaffamaddler: "fix BT"?23:52
guerbyTak some launched but no move, some moved but key seemed to have no effect23:52
guerbyTak, I suggest listing a few legit ROM known to work URLs somewhere (or even package them :)23:53
Takthat's actually a very good idea23:53
TakI'll do that23:53
guerbyTak thanks :)23:53
Takdid you try roms for all systems?23:53
guerbyTak, yep23:54
Taksame symptoms across the board?23:54
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inzHmm, I wonder where I put the N800 -- I an ssh in just fine. =)23:54
guerbyTak, no some fixed image, some moving stuff but no way to start23:54
guerbyTak, no sound I noticed23:55
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Takhm :-/23:55
Takdid you install from extras repo, or download from the project page?23:55
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guerbyTak all extra repo free non-free bora23:56
guerby(with app manager)23:56
* Tak nods23:56
maddlernice... default adressbook now has phone field...23:57
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|tbb|yeah someone knows we can hack something there to add some custom fields?23:59

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