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| * bhima has an n-gage. | 00:06 | |
| * bhima thinks it's usually quite challenging to get actual, proper specs on Nokia phones. | 00:07 | |
| bhima | Even simple stuff like CPU, speed, DRAM, flash. | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
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| glass | it's a sort of black art | 00:08 |
| glass | 107mhz on ngage | 00:08 |
| glass | #symbian would be a better channel | 00:09 |
| bhima | Which n-gage, btw? | 00:10 |
| glass | qd or taco, same speed, same screen bitdepth(12).. | 00:10 |
| glass | qd lacks the mp3 chip though | 00:10 |
| guerby | did the USA hackers receive coupons yet? | 00:11 |
| c0ffee | no | 00:11 |
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| maddler | doh | 00:12 |
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| keesj | me is downloading a large size takfro | 00:14 |
| Tak | LOL | 00:14 |
| Tak | maybe I should put that on the xmame page | 00:15 |
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| * Tak tries to work out a UI for a screen-control applet | 00:19 | |
| * gpd notices http://www.notacloud.com/blog/?p=26 | 00:20 | |
| keesj | screen-control applet? | 00:21 |
| Tak | yeah, he copied that in a list mail too | 00:21 |
| Tak | keesj: blank now, disable blanking, lock | 00:22 |
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| * minra looks around for things to sell | 00:22 | |
| Tak | more if I get more ideas | 00:23 |
| gpd | did anyone ever test the standby mode further? | 00:23 |
| lucaspirolla | bhima: classic | 00:23 |
| Tak | oh, could set standby mode too | 00:23 |
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| gpd | Tak: a standby button would be handy - but when i tried it from xterm the device would reboot if 'standingby' for more than about 1 minutes | 00:24 |
| Tak | how did you do it? | 00:24 |
| Tak | manually in /sys ? | 00:24 |
| gpd | yes echo standby to something in sys (can't rembmer now) | 00:24 |
| * maddler was reading about OS2007 hacker edition... sounds interesting... | 00:24 | |
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| Tak | I'll probably do it via osso/dbus/mce | 00:24 |
| Jaffa | maddler: I'm worried it won't quite get to the point where end users can use it, meaning supporting two OS levels simulataneously | 00:25 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: well it looks to me that they cleared stated that it won't be an "official" release... | 00:27 |
| maddler | nor it is targeted to end-user | 00:27 |
| Tak | they stated that the *first* release won't be end-user | 00:27 |
| maddler | cleared=clearly | 00:27 |
| maddler | damn... my subdermal transl-A-chip isn't working today! | 00:28 |
| maddler | :D | 00:28 |
| * maddler getting cyberpunkish! | 00:28 | |
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| lucaspirolla | Does anyone know any document with hardware specfications for the n-gage CLASSIC or where i can get them? | 00:28 |
| maddler | Jaffa: by the way... UPS at last noticed that no, they won't deliver my N8 *this* afternoon... | 00:29 |
| maddler | lucaspirolla: hard to find that here I'd say... | 00:29 |
| lucaspirolla | maddler: easier than other places :) | 00:29 |
| maddler | maybe somewhere like symbian | 00:29 |
| maddler | or so... | 00:29 |
| maddler | mumble... wait... | 00:29 |
| wasabi_ | Wish somebody would send me a N800. =) | 00:30 |
| wasabi_ | Prolly not going to get one. Blew the bank on the n770. =/ | 00:30 |
| maddler | lucaspirolla: well... I can find _almost_ everything but n-gage | 00:30 |
| maddler | :D | 00:30 |
| Tak | ditto; I won't be able to get one for a while w/o the dev discount | 00:30 |
| maddler | http://www.mobilchips.com/manuals.php?p_cat=10 | 00:30 |
| Jaffa | maddler: doh! Mine's in the country now, so I'll ring them first thing and get them to check the address | 00:31 |
| maddler | Jaffa: mine is only 15Km from here!!! | 00:31 |
| Jaffa | maddler: but there's a difference between "we won't support it or push it at end users" and an OS which *we* can push at end users if they want to run Vx.xx of some s/w. | 00:32 |
| lucaspirolla | maddler: russian site... i can understand very little... | 00:32 |
| maddler | http://maps.google.it/maps?daddr=Via+Ranuccio+Bianchi+Bandinelli,+130,+00178+Rome+RM&saddr=51+via+urbino,+roma&f=l&sll=41.814026,12.595289&sspn=0.008812,0.027122&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1 | 00:32 |
| maddler | Jaffa: indeed... | 00:33 |
| maddler | we'll se how it will evolve... | 00:33 |
| dwd | lucaspirolla: Try forum.nokia.com | 00:33 |
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| guerby | grr N800 stuck again by https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=941 | 00:33 |
| guerby | battery remove... | 00:34 |
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| dwd | lucaspirolla: I'm not sure how detailed they get, there, though. | 00:34 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: checkin out r100 | 00:38 |
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| lucaspirolla | dwd: sure it's not too detailed :( | 00:38 |
| maddler | btw... I'm testing mud on Bora environment... | 00:38 |
| Jaffa | maddler: :) | 00:39 |
| Jaffa | cool | 00:39 |
| * Jaffa 's about to check in r101, but it'll only feature TODO updates based on keesj's latest email. | 00:39 | |
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| c0ffee | Jaffa, can you build packages for 2.2 and 3.0 in the same scratchbox with mud? | 00:39 |
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| Jaffa | c0ffee: yes, but you'd need multiple targets (and obviously sources which compiled against the different API versions) | 00:40 |
| maddler | svn decided not to download... | 00:40 |
| c0ffee | sure | 00:40 |
| c0ffee | this syslog.movial.fi blog entry suggests that it is possible to install a 2.x target in the current scratchbox | 00:41 |
| hap | why does my N800 disconnect my ssh session after a while ? | 00:41 |
| c0ffee | trying that right now, but it takes ages to download stuff :/ | 00:41 |
| MacSlow | I'm still trying to get autogen.sh of cairo (git upstream) working but it fails early on with http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/2804 | 00:41 |
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| MacSlow | where do I get the needed m4 files from... or whatever else seems to be missing there? | 00:42 |
| tzz | hap: why are you sure the N800 is disconnecting the session? | 00:42 |
| tzz | hap: your firewall or router is much more likely to reap connections | 00:42 |
| hap | tzz: it doesn't. if I start a webpage on the nokia, my ssh works again | 00:42 |
| hap | same session, don't have to reconnect | 00:43 |
| Tak | anybody have ideas for the layout of a screen control applet? | 00:43 |
| hap | tzz: my ssh doesn't disconnect, it hangs, if I do something from the nokia, then the ssh is back | 00:43 |
| tzz | hap: so it's not disconnected then? | 00:43 |
| maddler | damn... networking is not *not*working from inside scratchbox... | 00:43 |
| maddler | can't svn co | 00:43 |
| maddler | nor wget... | 00:43 |
| hap | well my PC -> nokia doesn't do anything, i have to "wake up" the nokia, going on internet, and it works back. | 00:44 |
| c0ffee | does /etc/resolv.conf look reasonable, maddler ? | 00:44 |
| hap | tzz: i have the same network setting to connect through ssh to my powerbook, and it doesn't do it | 00:44 |
| hap | it's not my router for sure | 00:44 |
| tzz | hap: I wouldn't bet it's not your router. | 00:44 |
| maddler | c0ffee: yep... | 00:45 |
| hap | tzz: well i have the same network settings on my powerbook, not a single problem. | 00:45 |
| tzz | hap: run something that updates continuously on the server, to the N800 is getting screen updates. top will work. | 00:45 |
| hap | tzz: i can not establish a new ssh when it hangs | 00:45 |
| c0ffee | maddler, get strace and see why it fails then :) | 00:45 |
| hap | hmm yeah | 00:45 |
| tzz | "server, SO the" | 00:46 |
| c0ffee | \o/ | 00:46 |
| c0ffee | OS 2007 "hacker edition" for 770 | 00:46 |
| tzz | hap: if the session is kept alive, I need to know if you still get disconnected | 00:46 |
| hap | ok let me try with top | 00:47 |
| hap | i ll see within few minutes | 00:47 |
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| *** c0ffee changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | EU discount codes are out, US comes today, for 2nd wave apply to quim.gil@maemo.org | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/" | 00:49 | |
| *** Tak changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | EU discount codes are out, US comes "soon," for 2nd wave apply to quim.gil@maemo.org | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/" | 00:50 | |
| maddler | isn't /etc/resolv.conf in a target supposed to be = to /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf? | 00:50 |
| tzz | maddler: not automatically, I had to copy mine. | 00:51 |
| maddler | tzz: ehehe... just discovered... :D | 00:51 |
| waite | tak, way to kill the suspense! | 00:51 |
| inz | maddler, sb-conf in -e | 00:51 |
| c0ffee | Tak, i realized that the second i changed the topic :) i just didn't want to change it twice within a second | 00:51 |
| maddler | but I assumed that modifing /etc/resolv.conf from *inside* scratchbox target was ok... | 00:51 |
| inz | maddler, i.e. sb-config install --etc | 00:52 |
| Tak | no problem - I'm always happy to help annoy :-) | 00:52 |
| c0ffee | :) | 00:52 |
| Tak | waite: I think the suspense died sometime yesterday... | 00:52 |
| waite | At least now I can stop doing TZ coversions in my head. | 00:52 |
| waite | I know :) | 00:52 |
| inz | let's all migrate to internet time | 00:52 |
| Tak | what is finland, gmt+? | 00:53 |
| maddler | +2? | 00:53 |
| Tak | I'd be fine with going 100% utc, no dst | 00:53 |
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| inz | UTC+2 in the winter and +3 in the summer | 00:53 |
| waite | dst is just confusing | 00:53 |
| Tak | agreed | 00:53 |
| inz | true dat | 00:53 |
| Tak | I can't believe they voted to *extend* dst in the us | 00:53 |
| waite | but just like in fizicks momentum is hard to stop | 00:54 |
| MacSlow | can someone point me to some info to get cairo compile under scratchbox? | 00:54 |
| tzz | inz: my company uses UTC for everything, it's great. We have offices in every timezone. | 00:54 |
| waite | I'd op for metric before DST | 00:54 |
| tzz | every populated timezone, I should say. | 00:54 |
| waite | mertic conversion that in the US that is | 00:55 |
| inz | *phew*, i though for a while I had b0rked by DVD+/-RW drive (dropped it at school) -- fortunately it was just a case of b0rked media | 00:55 |
| inz | Or then the drop b0rked DVD+R ;) | 00:56 |
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| maddler | damn!!! he was fast! :D | 00:57 |
| inz | (s)he popped in to see the minute chage | 00:57 |
| inz | +n | 00:57 |
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| inz | nah, my theory was wrong | 00:58 |
| maddler | Jaffa: no way... mut is not working... | 00:59 |
| c0ffee | it's the (in)famous joinpart mIRC script | 00:59 |
| inz | should really go to sleep, need to be @0615 UTC on a lecture | 01:00 |
| c0ffee | lectures are more fun when you're half asleep | 01:01 |
| c0ffee | esp. if you are the lecturer | 01:01 |
| inz | c0ffee, I'm already half asleep | 01:01 |
| inz | And 6 hours is going to +=2 my "sleepdebt" | 01:02 |
| |tbb| | is it possible to change the background color of the bootsequenz from white to black? | 01:03 |
| lardman | Drat, 770 doesn't handle illegal instruction errors | 01:03 |
| inz | |tbb|, at some stage probably yes | 01:03 |
| inz | |tbb|, in the very beginning it's done by some low-level firmwarethingmabob | 01:04 |
| c0ffee | lardman, that would have made it too easy to run 800 binaries on the 770 :) | 01:04 |
| lardman | c0ffee: Indeed. I'm sure it would be possible, just depends how much work | 01:04 |
| lardman | c0ffee: Though trapping and handling armv6 instructions too would add even more work | 01:05 |
| |tbb| | inz: u mean the first pop up is changeable :) | 01:05 |
| c0ffee | we'd need a jit compiler | 01:05 |
| lardman | c0ffee: Depends on what the actual changes are between the instruction sets - I've been able to run armv5 on armv4 processors without issues | 01:05 |
| lardman | c0ffee: JIT is an option | 01:06 |
| c0ffee | a coworker of mine wrote the qemu for gumstix port, maybe he knows | 01:06 |
| c0ffee | i'll ask him tommorow | 01:06 |
| lardman | c0ffee: Might be interesting | 01:06 |
| lardman | I wonder how QEmu handles vfp, whether it passes it onto its own fp unit, or emulates it all in software? | 01:09 |
| lardman | ah-ha, a software emulator: http://dsl.ee.unsw.edu.au/dsl-cdrom/unsw/projects/armvfp/README.html | 01:10 |
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| MacSlow | argl... so much for librsvg on maemo 2.1 | 01:16 |
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| Jaffa | maddler: doesn't work how? (and have you seen the new vim package I added - it's full vim, not cut down, though) | 01:28 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: killed that... I;m not in right mood to solve *more* problems tonight... :) | 01:31 |
| Jaffa | maddler: I can imagine! :-( | 01:31 |
| * maddler 's drinking some good cold beer... | 01:31 | |
| maddler | tomorrow morning I'm going to call nokia... | 01:32 |
| Jaffa | maddler: Quite right | 01:32 |
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| maddler | Barry Lyndon sountrack rules! | 01:38 |
| lardman | I assume dspgateway 3.3.1 is used on the N800, while 3.3 is used on the 770. I wonder if the os2007on770 issue is to do with the mailbox interface having been removed from the DSP driver | 01:40 |
| lardman | according to the dspgateway changelog page: http://dspgateway.sourceforge.net/pub/index.php?Page=History | 01:40 |
| lardman | Would certainly stop it from bothering to do anything by way of communications | 01:41 |
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| Jaffa | lardman: comms might be important to its workingness. | 01:42 |
| Jaffa | The thing which really bugs me about os2007on770 is that it's still dependent on Nokia AFAICS, unless the patches and going to be in the garage svn | 01:42 |
| lardman | It was interesting to see that things like the kernel config needed to be changed from the released versions | 01:43 |
| lardman | plus a variety of other patches | 01:43 |
| Jaffa | "interesting"'s one word for it. | 01:43 |
| lardman | :) | 01:43 |
| Jaffa | Poor release management, and barely GPL compliant would be others :-/ | 01:44 |
| sxpert | sounds like mplayer :D | 01:44 |
| lardman | I wonder how to fix the dsp? dspgateway is in the kernel, so the newer kernel would need to be back-patched to remove the changes so it can still talk to the binary dsp stuff | 01:44 |
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| jaek | uh, evince wont install... it complains that libglade is unavailable | 01:47 |
| Jaffa | jaek: do you have the maemo repository added? | 01:48 |
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| jaek | which one is that? | 01:48 |
| maddler | Jaffa: being completely independent from nokia could be somehow interesting... | 01:48 |
| Jaffa | maddler: could be *very* interesting | 01:48 |
| Jaffa | jaek: the one with libglade in ;-) | 01:48 |
| jaek | yeah, well if i knew which one had libglade i wouldnt be asking which one | 01:49 |
| lardman | night night everyone | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | maddler: you seen https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/packages/helloworld.xml?root=mud-builder&view=markup - my sick hack of an entire Maemo package, application and source code in one mud package xml file | 01:49 |
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| Jaffa | jaek: I was joking - I'm just finding the details | 01:49 |
| maddler | hehehe | 01:49 |
| maddler | lemme give it a look | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | maddler: is quite informative in the minimum source requirements for mud to build a deb, though | 01:50 |
| jaek | Jaffa, lol... /sigh | 01:50 |
| maddler | yep... that's what I was writing... | 01:51 |
| maddler | but... hmmm... | 01:51 |
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| maddler | is mud able to track filesystem changes? | 01:51 |
| jaek | maybe someone should write in the wiki in the evince section about this... | 01:51 |
| maddler | you know... a la checkinstall... | 01:51 |
| Jaffa | jaek: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationRepositories | 01:51 |
| Jaffa | maddler: at which point? | 01:51 |
| * Jaffa would, of course, have been better off using a patch for the .c file and Makefile, but that's not the point of the demo. | 01:52 | |
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| maddler | in the helloworld.xml at some point you have the install: stuff in Makefile... | 01:57 |
| maddler | yup... I was only wondering on how advanced and great and complete is mud... :D | 01:57 |
| Jaffa | So the question is if you could lose the "install:" target and have it notice that before building there were n items, after building n+1 and it's executable therefore should go in /usr/bin? | 01:58 |
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| anothy_x | it looks to me like there's currently no N800 flasher for OS X; is that right? | 02:05 |
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| Jaffa | anothy_x: correct, although someone reported my GUI wrapper and the command line actually worked for them. | 02:06 |
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| anothy_x | what, the 2.0 command line version for the 770? | 02:07 |
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| Jaffa | anothy_x: yeah | 02:08 |
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| anothy_x | huh. makes me a bit nervous, but i guess as the device is inoperable now, it's not likely to make the situation worse. | 02:09 |
| Jaffa | Worst that'll happen is that it won't work, I don't think it'd end up a brick | 02:11 |
| anothy_x | well, it's already half-bricked (looping Nokia logo, no boot). | 02:11 |
| Jaffa | flasher-2.0 should be able to remove the lifeguard reset | 02:13 |
| Jaffa | Without reflashing everything. What did you do to cause the loop? | 02:13 |
| Jaffa | planet.maemo.org RSS feed? | 02:13 |
| Jaffa | Whatever it is, it should go into bugs.maemo.org so Nokia can fix it. | 02:13 |
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| anothy_x | device was working fine. i realized i had set the date wrong (2006 instead of 2007) corrected that, which seemed to work. i then clicked on one of the weather widgets (i get the two on the app library confused; the one with multiple cities possible), and it immediately rebooted and was in a loop. | 02:14 |
| anothy_x | not sure what in that process actually caused the failure. | 02:15 |
| Jaffa | One of the weather applets caused serious breakage in the past. | 02:15 |
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| anothy_x | doesn't speak well of the device that a purely user-mode program can trash it like this. | 02:16 |
| anothy_x | anyway... off re-learning the command line well enough to reset the lifeguard. | 02:17 |
| anothy_x | huh. does sticking it in R&D mode do that implicitly? | 02:20 |
| maddler | damn... wasn't considering... mutt needs an MTA... | 02:22 |
| anothy_x | is there a list of "safe" repositories for the 880/IT2007 anywhere? | 02:22 |
| maddler | mumble... | 02:22 |
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| maddler | better to find a minimalistic solution to this... | 02:22 |
| maddler | or to change aproach? | 02:23 |
| anothy_x | okay, i can confirm that your packaged 770 flasher works for the n800, at least for setting R&D mode and transfering new kernels. i have a working (if blank) device again. much thanks! | 02:24 |
| tzz | after programming Perl and Java and Lisp for a while, C/GTK is a real shock to me (it's been 15 years since I touched C). Doing simple things takes 20-100 lines of code. I can't say I like it at all. | 02:24 |
| tzz | I'll definitely be doing Python if I decide to develop anything from scratch for Maemo. | 02:25 |
| Jaffa | tzz: I know what you mean. Could be worse, could be C++ ;-) | 02:25 |
| Jaffa | maddler: a mini MTA shouldn't be hard. Doesn't mutt have a smarthost mode? | 02:26 |
| maddler | don't know... found a mice .py script btw... | 02:26 |
| maddler | checking it now... | 02:26 |
| maddler | :D | 02:26 |
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| maddler | hmmm... maybe something ther could be a solution using socat as well... | 02:31 |
| tzz | Jaffa: I've spent 8-10 hours now on the stupid keyboard popup. Very frustrating. I will probably work on MUD contributions next, to clear my palate. C/GTK leaves a nasty metallic taste in my mouth. Perl is like Toblerone. | 02:31 |
| tzz | good night everyone... | 02:31 |
| maddler | I think mutt needs to invoke a "delivery" command... cant' directly connect to somehost:25 | 02:31 |
| maddler | bye tzz | 02:32 |
| maddler | yess!!! it worked using the .py minimalistic mta... | 02:33 |
| maddler | but.... hmmm... that requires to install python and friends... | 02:33 |
| Jaffa | Python on Maemo's not too bad as a dependency | 02:35 |
| Jaffa | Increasingly used, after all | 02:35 |
| Jaffa | Right, I'm off to bed. Some mud hacking on the train has left me saited, so now I need sleep. | 02:35 |
| Jaffa | Especially since the in-laws are here tomorrow when I'll be shouting at UPS to deliver my N800 | 02:36 |
| Jaffa | g'night | 02:36 |
| maddler | hahaha | 02:36 |
| maddler | good luck my friend!!! | 02:36 |
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| minra | lol @ tzz | 02:42 |
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| gpd | is there somewhere on the wiki to report spam? i am not seeing it | 03:08 |
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| * gpd plays in the MUD | 03:17 | |
| gpd | anyone got suggestions for console packages not yet available? the wishlist seems a bit outdated | 03:18 |
| gpd | just built mtr-tiny - which if works could be useful | 03:19 |
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| gpd | cowsay... obviously | 03:21 |
| konfoo | figlet | 03:22 |
| gpd | was about to say figlet -- for 'shaboom' action :) | 03:22 |
| konfoo | :) | 03:22 |
| konfoo | heh | 03:22 |
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| gpd | looking at what I have on my virtual server --- host, diff, jhead, lftp, mcrypt, nmap, less, rsync, recode, remind, subversion, unison (done), wget (done), ccze, exiv2, file (done), dstat | 03:33 |
| minra | dig/nslookup? | 03:37 |
| gpd | yup - that too | 03:38 |
| minra | that's a nice* toolset | 03:38 |
| minra | your list | 03:38 |
| gpd | i'll let you know how they build with the MUD-builder | 03:39 |
| minra | i can't think of *good* additions | 03:39 |
| MacSlow | how do I get a broken .deb (dropbear-client) removed from the 770? | 03:41 |
| MacSlow | btw... I don't have a root acount on it yet. | 03:41 |
| robtaylor | MacSlow: dpkg --purge <package> | 03:43 |
| robtaylor | and you'll need root | 03:44 |
| MacSlow | somehow I knew that I'm busted :) | 03:44 |
| robtaylor | conenct up usb, ./flasher --enable-rd-mode | 03:44 |
| * minra tries to think of a use for figlet | 03:44 | |
| MacSlow | but the rd-mode is not 'recommended" | 03:45 |
| robtaylor | MacSlow: if you're a developer, you want rdmode | 03:45 |
| robtaylor | MacSlow: https://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot | 03:45 |
| MacSlow | hm... not rebooting | 03:50 |
| AaronL2 | robtaylor: you don't need that anymore to become root | 03:51 |
| AaronL2 | there are easier ways | 03:51 |
| MacSlow | argl! | 03:51 |
| AaronL2 | if you install openssh | 03:51 |
| AaronL2 | you can login as root easily | 03:52 |
| AaronL2 | assuming that you are on the latest OS for the 770, that is | 03:52 |
| AaronL2 | well, a 2.x OS | 03:52 |
| AaronL2 | you can enable red-pill mode to install openssh | 03:52 |
| AaronL2 | it's all on the wiki | 03:52 |
| Pio | i think openssh disables root login by default | 03:52 |
| AaronL2 | I don't think so | 03:52 |
| AaronL2 | it's all on the wiki :-) | 03:53 |
| AaronL2 | well | 03:53 |
| AaronL2 | you can login as user | 03:53 |
| Pio | i've done the dropbear way and becomeroot.. i like becomeroot | 03:53 |
| Pio | yeah.. but it doesnt get you root | 03:53 |
| AaronL2 | I prefer openssh because it gives you sftp | 03:53 |
| Pio | yeah me too | 03:53 |
| AaronL2 | I'm pretty sure i got root that way | 03:53 |
| Pio | thats why i like becomeroot | 03:53 |
| AaronL2 | using openssh | 03:53 |
| Pio | huh, *shrug* | 03:53 |
| AaronL2 | but, it's been a while, I definitely can ssh in as root | 03:53 |
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| Pio | hmm i can login as root too | 03:54 |
| Pio | well maybe whoever told me openssh doesnt allow root logins by default was just plain wrong :) | 03:54 |
| AaronL2 | heh | 03:55 |
| Pio | i know it doesnt in your typical linux box, but i guess not here | 03:55 |
| AaronL2 | was it the little voice in your head? :-P | 03:55 |
| Pio | no! | 03:55 |
| Pio | i can find it in my logs :) | 03:55 |
| robtaylor | AaronL2: i just become root and apt-get install openssh-server | 03:55 |
| Pio | FreeNode-#maemo.log:Jan 08 15:25:21 <Aleksandyr> Pio: openssh by default blocks remote root login: gotta tweak a config file. | 03:55 |
| AaronL2 | heh | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | robtaylor: no, you enable red-pill mode to install openssh | 03:56 |
| robtaylor | easier than piddling around with the application installer | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | which starts sshd | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | red pill mode is something in the application installer | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | you annot use apt-get install unless you are root | 03:56 |
| robtaylor | indeed | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | if you are root | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | well, that might work | 03:56 |
| robtaylor | call me old schol | 03:56 |
| robtaylor | school | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | well, if you already have root | 03:56 |
| AaronL2 | then it should be no problem to remove the bad dropbear package | 03:57 |
| robtaylor | AaronL2: it was MacSlow who was having the problems | 03:57 |
| AaronL2 | ah, right ;-) | 03:57 |
| AaronL2 | hehe | 03:57 |
| AaronL2 | I'm not sure if the package is named openssh-server | 03:57 |
| AaronL2 | it might be just openssh, which gets you everything | 03:58 |
| * robtaylor lets AaronL2 do an apt-cache search | 03:58 | |
| AaronL2 | sorry, my 770 isn't handy at the moment :-) | 03:59 |
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| MacSlow | oh "great" | 04:00 |
| MacSlow | dpkg --purge dropbear-client | 04:01 |
| MacSlow | [: ==: unkown operand | 04:01 |
| MacSlow | subprocess pre-removal script killed by signa (Segmentation fault) | 04:01 |
| MacSlow | ... | 04:01 |
| MacSlow | *sigh* | 04:01 |
| robtaylor | zomg | 04:01 |
| robtaylor | dpkg -r dropbear-client ? | 04:02 |
| MacSlow | nope | 04:02 |
| MacSlow | same arror | 04:02 |
| MacSlow | error | 04:02 |
| robtaylor | zomg | 04:02 |
| MacSlow | completely flash it again... the windows-way (just reinstall everything) | 04:03 |
| MacSlow | ? | 04:03 |
| MacSlow | ! | 04:03 |
| robtaylor | MacSlow: might be needed. How did it get in this state? | 04:03 |
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| MacSlow | robtaylor, I just installed the two dropbear .debs from the web | 04:05 |
| MacSlow | sever went clean client was hosed | 04:05 |
| MacSlow | my super nice DI playlist will be wiped *sigh* | 04:06 |
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| robtaylor | backup /home/user/ | 04:06 |
| robtaylor | (including hidden directories) | 04:06 |
| MacSlow | btw... will I have to disable teh RD mode before reflashing ? | 04:07 |
| robtaylor | MacSlow: nope | 04:07 |
| MacSlow | so the card "behind" /media/mmc1 will not be touched by re reflashing? | 04:12 |
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| konfoo | anyone here aware of any card reader hardware failures? | 04:24 |
| konfoo | the first 800 i purchased wouldn't read a 4gb card without corrupting it (known to work). i returned it for another one and the same issue. i noticed the mac address differs by 4-5 digits in the last octet. bad production line batch? | 04:25 |
| vittorio | konfoo, afaik only few 4gb cards are kown to work. what card do you have? | 04:27 |
| soleblaze | yeah, only non-spec 4gb cards work | 04:27 |
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| konfoo | one that supposedly has been verified to work - transcend 150x sd(non hc) | 04:27 |
| soleblaze | supposedly. I've also heard some cards don't go past 2gb | 04:27 |
| soleblaze | even if they're 4 | 04:27 |
| konfoo | i saw the same for 8gb (wont go past 4) | 04:28 |
| vittorio | the transcend card worked for thoughtfix | 04:28 |
| konfoo | yeah and other people | 04:28 |
| vittorio | thats strange :/ | 04:28 |
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| jacques | there are 8GB non-SDHC cards? | 04:29 |
| anothy_light | what can i tell gaim to get it to open links? | 04:29 |
| konfoo | when i init it with swap it dies. dosfsck under linux reports the card header sector is corrupted | 04:29 |
| vittorio | and without using it for swap? | 04:30 |
| konfoo | same thing | 04:30 |
| konfoo | even attempting to format it corrupts it | 04:30 |
| konfoo | and/or the card goes into a 0 bytes free spaz | 04:31 |
| vittorio | internal or external prot? | 04:31 |
| konfoo | no difference | 04:31 |
| konfoo | tried the new os update, and the sdhc supported kernel on both the old and the new 800 | 04:31 |
| konfoo | they all do exactly the same thing to the card | 04:31 |
| konfoo | works fine in every other device i have (camera, garmin, 3 pc card readers (old and new)) | 04:32 |
| vittorio | is it possible to read the HW version in /proc or /sys. afaik there was a file in 770 | 04:33 |
| konfoo | thats my next step (and dmesg, etc) | 04:33 |
| konfoo | very odd problem here | 04:33 |
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| vittorio | i have R&D enabled and on boot it says "hw-build 1301" | 04:37 |
| konfoo | same here | 04:38 |
| konfoo | my other sd cards work fine | 04:38 |
| * konfoo shakes fist | 04:38 | |
| konfoo | well, i pinged the listserv, lets see what happens ;) | 04:40 |
| * vittorio shakes fist too (about to buy 4GB card) | 04:43 | |
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| Tak | the new xterm fucking ROCKS! | 05:06 |
| jacques | what's better? | 05:13 |
| Tak | a bar of built-in control sequences | 05:16 |
| Tak | perfect for screen | 05:16 |
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| soleblaze | no ctrl c..but a plain ctrl button | 05:25 |
| soleblaze | yeah..it is rather useable | 05:25 |
| soleblaze | I gotta get bash or zsh on there. | 05:25 |
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| Tak | hmm...this metal slug rom is b0rk | 05:49 |
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| Tak | and this one | 05:58 |
| * Tak gives up | 05:58 | |
| gpd | Tak: which xterm do you refer to? | 05:58 |
| Tak | latest osso-xterm | 05:59 |
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| darkstry | i need help!!! | 05:59 |
| darkstry | can someone help me??? | 06:00 |
| gpd | darkstry: just ask | 06:00 |
| Tak | I took a look at the bora fceu code; the buttons should work as-is | 06:00 |
| darkstry | how do i install maemo? | 06:00 |
| darkstry | i want to install gaim | 06:00 |
| darkstry | on my n800 | 06:01 |
| Tak | try pressing different parts of the screen and see if they're offset? | 06:01 |
| gpd | darkstry: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications | 06:01 |
| gpd | Tak: osso-xterm (0.13.mh18bora1 maemo-hackers:maemo3.0) ?? | 06:02 |
| gpd | Tak: i'll try the buttons in a sec | 06:02 |
| darkstry | hey gpd can u give me better instructions | 06:03 |
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| gpd | Jaffa: just trying mud with mixed success: failed so far: exiv2, dstat, remind, lftp. worked so far: jhead, bash, mtr-tiny. | 06:04 |
| Tak | yeah, that one | 06:04 |
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| gpd | darkstry: do you have ssh/xterm available? | 06:05 |
| darkstry | anyone ?? | 06:05 |
| darkstry | how do i install maemo? | 06:05 |
| darkstry | step by step please | 06:05 |
| darkstry | im so lost | 06:05 |
| Tak | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006#head-7a166196bc374deeaac7901447ef8ec0dc6ea166 | 06:06 |
| darkstry | tak is that to me? | 06:07 |
| Tak | gpd: no hurry @ buttons | 06:07 |
| Tak | darkstry: yes | 06:07 |
| gpd | Tak: running NES Bubble Bobble now from xmaeme | 06:07 |
| gpd | Tak: pressed fullscreen button twice, game loaded. | 06:08 |
| gpd | Tak: pressing anywhere on screen with finger or stylus has no effect | 06:08 |
| darkstry | ?? | 06:09 |
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| Tak | not even save/load? | 06:09 |
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| anothy_x | anyone know of anyone having the camera do anything but the built-in chat app on the N800? is there documentation on that hardware? | 06:19 |
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| minra | mmm | 06:24 |
| minra | is there a log of this channel somewhere? seems i remember someone taking pics with it | 06:24 |
| anothy_x | there is a log somewhere, yes; i was reading it the other day. | 06:25 |
| anothy_x | i didn't see anything on this, but i'll re-scan. any other context? | 06:25 |
| pahartik | minra: "/topic" | 06:25 |
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| gpd | Tak: nope - any ROMs you know it works with that I can test? | 06:27 |
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| Tak | bubble bobble works | 06:32 |
| gpd | Tak: how else can i test it? I get no response to any taps or touches :( | 06:33 |
| * Tak kicks thumbboard | 06:35 | |
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| Tak | let me make a package with some debug output | 06:36 |
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| AaronL2 | minra: log can be found at the maemo wiki | 06:48 |
| AaronL2 | there is a link on the main page | 06:48 |
| minra | ok ty | 06:50 |
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| minra | reduces tendencies toward idle chatter | 06:52 |
| darkstry | can anyone use GAIM on their n800? | 06:52 |
| darkstry | ?? | 06:53 |
| anothy_x | yes. | 06:54 |
| darkstry | how do u find the msn protocol? | 06:54 |
| anothy_x | i don't use msn, but it's listed in the protocol set, just like all the other protocol modules. | 06:55 |
| Tak | he's getting an error connecting | 06:56 |
| darkstry | can i have th elink? | 06:56 |
| darkstry | to that? | 06:56 |
| anothy_x | gpd gave you the link to the Tested Applications page; the repository to use is in there. have you tried that? | 06:57 |
| Tak | darkstry: wasn't it in the application list? | 06:58 |
| darkstry | yea | 06:58 |
| darkstry | i have it downloaded | 06:58 |
| darkstry | but still doesnt work :S | 06:59 |
| anothy_x | can you be more specific? | 06:59 |
| Tak | both maemo-gaim and the msn protocol package ? | 06:59 |
| darkstry | yea | 06:59 |
| darkstry | i have them both downloaded | 07:00 |
| darkstry | and it doesnt allow me to sign in | 07:00 |
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| darkstry | i installed gaim first.. then the protocol | 07:01 |
| darkstry | then i try clicking sign in | 07:01 |
| darkstry | and it doesnt work | 07:01 |
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| darkstry | ill install them again | 07:02 |
| darkstry | can also anyone tell me why | 07:03 |
| darkstry | when i plug my n800 to the computer | 07:03 |
| darkstry | why it says | 07:03 |
| darkstry | nokia is not able to transfer stuff | 07:03 |
| darkstry | the setting says its in UI MODE | 07:03 |
| bmidgley | any US discount codes showing up for anyone? | 07:04 |
| gpd | Tak: http://pastey.net/5491 | 07:07 |
| gpd | did you get that it is Save, Load, B, A | 07:07 |
| gpd | Tak: middle of each button - i can do edges if you need | 07:08 |
| Tak | that's odd | 07:08 |
| Tak | no, those are very informative | 07:08 |
| Tak | it looks like X is dropping into 400x240 res | 07:09 |
| darkstry | whoa | 07:10 |
| darkstry | my n800 just restarted | 07:10 |
| keesj | and the 448 is not a typo? | 07:10 |
| darkstry | hey tak, do u know why i cant read stuff on my n800 using my computer | 07:10 |
| Tak | keesj: that's queried from SDL | 07:12 |
| Tak | darkstry: not immediately | 07:12 |
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| Tak | bmidgely: not yet for me | 07:16 |
| * gpd plays sauna -- has no clue what to do | 07:19 | |
| keesj | I don't know either, I have ported sauna to mud builder yesterday btw | 07:20 |
| * Tak builds another debug package | 07:20 | |
| keesj | The guy is willing to translate the game | 07:20 |
| gpd | yes that is why i mentioned | 07:20 |
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| keesj | did it build static? | 07:21 |
| Tak | gpd: http://xmame.garage.maemo.org/debs/fceu_0.98.12-bora2debug_armel.deb | 07:21 |
| gpd | dpkg -i sauna_0.1.0-1_armel.deb | 07:21 |
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| gpd | Got button B press | 07:23 |
| gpd | MouseData: 352 75 1 | 07:23 |
| gpd | Got button A press | 07:23 |
| gpd | Tak: sweet -- i can now blow bubbles and jump :D | 07:23 |
| Tak | ok, are the buttons having effects in-game now? | 07:23 |
| Tak | woo! | 07:23 |
| gpd | yes - all loooks good -- of course super slow in debug | 07:24 |
| Tak | how about save/load? | 07:24 |
| gpd | MouseData: 27 40 1 | 07:24 |
| gpd | Got button Save press | 07:24 |
| gpd | MouseData: 29 93 1 | 07:24 |
| gpd | Got button Load press | 07:24 |
| gpd | but: State 0 save error. and State 0 load error. | 07:24 |
| Tak | yeah, I'll build a non-debug package now | 07:25 |
| Tak | hmm, ok | 07:25 |
| gpd | but i get that with the 'zoom' buttons too (state errors) | 07:25 |
| Tak | yeah, I think I know about that one | 07:26 |
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| gpd | Jaffa: mcrypt from debian also build and works | 07:28 |
| darkstry | is there another internet explorer u can use on the n800? | 07:30 |
| gpd | darkstry: 'another browser' - please :) | 07:31 |
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| gpd | darkstry: minimo is another browser - but not tested myself | 07:32 |
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| pahartik | darkstry: try to avoid offensive language | 07:33 |
| darkstry | oh | 07:34 |
| darkstry | yea when i go on gaim | 07:34 |
| darkstry | it says i can check my email | 07:34 |
| darkstry | but there's no browser to select | 07:34 |
| darkstry | so i cant open my email lol | 07:34 |
| darkstry | what is the max gig u can have on the n800? | 07:35 |
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| darkstry | 2 4 gig cards? | 07:35 |
| gpd | for now - yes | 07:35 |
| darkstry | ok cause iw as gonna order a 2 gig mini sd | 07:35 |
| darkstry | but if i ordered just regular sd | 07:35 |
| darkstry | thats fine too right? | 07:35 |
| gpd | yes - as long as it is not SDHC you should be ok | 07:36 |
| darkstry | kool | 07:36 |
| darkstry | there's a better player here too right? | 07:37 |
| darkstry | like so there is no choppiness | 07:38 |
| darkstry | in videos | 07:38 |
| gpd | depends on the video | 07:38 |
| darkstry | what about youtube | 07:42 |
| darkstry | no good there? | 07:42 |
| gpd | we await new version of flash i suspect | 07:43 |
| darkstry | hey gpd | 07:44 |
| darkstry | is there any othe way to use the videocam on the n800? | 07:44 |
| darkstry | or only on googletalk? | 07:44 |
| gpd | not sure on the latest: check http://www.internettablettalk.com/ | 07:45 |
| darkstry | can you use skype on the n800 yet? | 07:45 |
| gpd | not yet - but gizmoproject is available | 07:46 |
| darkstry | whats the gizmoproject? | 07:46 |
| darkstry | gps? | 07:46 |
| keesj | google? | 07:47 |
| gpd | darkstry: the occasional bit of thought on your part would be helpful :) http://www.gizmoproject.com/ | 07:47 |
| keesj | gpd, did you build sanau using mud for the n800? | 07:49 |
| gpd | keesj: yes | 07:49 |
| keesj | cool ! | 07:49 |
| gpd | just built a bunch of stuff using MUD - not all successful - but some | 07:50 |
| gpd | trying "Day of the Tentacle" on scummvm now :) | 07:50 |
| gpd | however, this version has 260M sound file :( | 07:50 |
| darkstry | ok | 07:51 |
| darkstry | gpd: i downloaded a .deb file on my computer | 07:51 |
| darkstry | how do i transfer it to nokia n800 | 07:51 |
| gpd | darkstry: it is easier for gizmo - if you just click on the deb file within the N800 browser | 07:52 |
| gpd | it will prompt you to install it | 07:52 |
| keesj | gpd, feel free to share you experience (also the bad ones). it is very motivating | 07:52 |
| darkstry | thank you | 07:52 |
| pahartik | darkstry: "scp" of OpenSSH | 07:53 |
| eeejay | i didn't realize google talk has video, or is it just a n800 feature for now? | 07:53 |
| gpd | keesj: with MUD? so far good experiences - i think i need to find a way to get it to grab stable rather than unstable packages. For example, it wanted debhelper > 5 | 07:53 |
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| gpd | eeejay: the jabber protocol supports video - but i couldn't find any Linux or Mac clients that did - only Windows (and not gtalk!) | 07:54 |
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| gpd | keesj: success so far are mcrypt, mtr-tiny | 07:55 |
| darkstry | scp of openssh?? i dony understand pahartik | 07:55 |
| Tak | new fceu on garage | 07:55 |
| gpd | keesj: failed to build from simplest debian xml file: ccze, exiv2, lftp, remind, dstat, less, nmap, subversion | 07:55 |
| Tak | awaiting extras import | 07:55 |
| Tak | (for bora) | 07:55 |
| pahartik | darkstry: it is usual tool to copy files between workstations or servers | 07:56 |
| gpd | keesj: failed to install - jhead (missing libjpeg-progs), diff (clash with busybox) | 07:56 |
| jacques | sigh, xchat moved ignore | 07:56 |
| gpd | keesj: not tried to install but compiles: bash, bind9-host, dnsutils, | 07:57 |
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| keesj | gpd, yes the deb fetch target must perform some more magic. | 07:58 |
| gpd | crap -- after all that - trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/nslookup', which is also in package busybox | 08:01 |
| * gpd runs out of console apps to try with MUD | 08:04 | |
| keesj | I sometimes also have deps on lsb-base | 08:05 |
| gpd | this one keeps coming up too: | 08:06 |
| gpd | Unable to install libmodule-build-perl | 08:06 |
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| keesj | I will try to summarize this. but first I walk the dog | 08:09 |
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| darkstry | can anyone get maemoblocks to work with the n800? | 09:14 |
| keesj | the sdk 3.0 install is pretty confusing do I only need to download the installer? do i have to install scratchbox? | 09:15 |
| c0ffee | yes | 09:15 |
| c0ffee | first download scratchbox | 09:15 |
| c0ffee | then run the install, it will only install the devkits | 09:15 |
| kulve | A bit OT: How do I parse data from pcap with wlan datalink? Is there some additional header in top of (or instead of) ethernet? Any pointers for documents describing this? | 09:15 |
| darkstry | ??? | 09:17 |
| kulve | darkstry: the maemo blocks that comes with the device? Sure, it works ok here.. | 09:17 |
| darkstry | kulve, it doesnt come with it | 09:22 |
| darkstry | the n800 | 09:22 |
| kulve | well, my device had maemo blocks.. | 09:23 |
| cambba | darkstry: sure it does | 09:23 |
| darkstry | where the hell would it be? | 09:23 |
| darkstry | under games? | 09:24 |
| kulve | yep | 09:24 |
| kulve | "Blocks" | 09:24 |
| suihkulokki | darkstry: it's even mentioned in the fine manual | 09:24 |
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| darkstry | ooh shiet | 09:25 |
| darkstry | my bad | 09:25 |
| darkstry | ok can anyone help me out with this question | 09:26 |
| darkstry | when i plug the usb cord in my computer | 09:26 |
| darkstry | it says that it cannot transfer anything | 09:26 |
| darkstry | turn off transfer mode | 09:27 |
| darkstry | then try again | 09:27 |
| kulve | darkstry: do you have an MMC card inserted? | 09:27 |
| darkstry | on pc nokia suite | 09:27 |
| kulve | nooo.. | 09:27 |
| darkstry | noooo??? | 09:27 |
| kulve | use the n800 like you would use any USB memory stick | 09:27 |
| darkstry | really? | 09:27 |
| kulve | it's not a phone, don't use pc suite with n800 | 09:27 |
| darkstry | so just take out the memory card if i need to transfer something to computer? | 09:28 |
| kulve | the nokia pc suite actually does recognise n800 but you must not use them together | 09:28 |
| kulve | you need to have the mmc inserted as the n800 will show the mmc on your pc when you plug in the cable | 09:28 |
| kulve | i.e. it will not show e.g. you MyDocs folder | 09:28 |
| darkstry | it says | 09:29 |
| darkstry | nokia n800 is connected in non-compatible mode | 09:30 |
| kulve | I think your pc suite is now interfering with that.. | 09:30 |
| darkstry | it says the same thing with the n770 | 09:30 |
| kulve | I think there were some option in the pc suite to ignore the n800 (I can remember this wrong though..) | 09:30 |
| darkstry | does the mplayer work good? | 09:31 |
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| kulve | darkstry: I'm still waiting for someone to make a good version of it for n800 :) | 09:32 |
| kulve | dunno if that actually exists already.. | 09:32 |
| darkstry | really | 09:32 |
| darkstry | hmmm | 09:32 |
| darkstry | can i use the videocam with msn? | 09:33 |
| darkstry | or should i say gaim | 09:33 |
| darkstry | or only googletalk can use that | 09:33 |
| kulve | darkstry: I think the gaim/msn supports only text | 09:33 |
| darkstry | so google talk can only use that feature? | 09:35 |
| kulve | it's a standard web camera in linux, but I think there's no apps for it yet. But I'm sure there will be some day | 09:36 |
| kulve | so now you can only use the google talk stuff | 09:38 |
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| keesj | just added xmoto in mud (there is still some work to do) | 09:40 |
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| Jaffa | cool | 09:41 |
| Jaffa | gpd: would be very interested in your experiences on the mud-builder-users mailing list. | 09:41 |
| darkstry | who has the nes emulator??? | 09:42 |
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| darkstry | ?? | 09:44 |
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| darkstry | mplayer dont work too well | 09:46 |
| darkstry | its all green on mine | 09:46 |
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| keesj | do I need to install 1.0.6 or 1.0.7 I don't see a 1.0.7 debian devkit | 09:55 |
| kulve | newest one seems to be 1.0.6 | 09:56 |
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| hap | Tak: which new version of xterm? | 10:03 |
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| zuh | hmmh, is the wiki dead for others too? | 10:07 |
| Veggen | when does the mud packages start to appear? | 10:08 |
| Veggen | ...or, if they already have, what is the repository? ;) | 10:08 |
| jtokash | maemo.org down? | 10:08 |
| zuh | The front page works, but wiki doesn't | 10:09 |
| zuh | ...or maybe it was from a cache | 10:10 |
| Jaffa | planet seems to be down too | 10:10 |
| jtokash | wiki seems to have come back to life | 10:13 |
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| keesj | I am writing all this down , but... the Gnu- toolchain is the same than in maemo 2.X ..??? | 10:17 |
| keesj | what do I need to download from http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/tarball/ | 10:18 |
| kulve | yep, same toolchain | 10:18 |
| keesj | I have installed the previous version using the nokia installer I don't know all that stuff | 10:18 |
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| keesj | Ok found it cs2005q3.2-glibc | 10:25 |
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| zbenjamin | hello @ all | 10:26 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: I've got a plan for fixing Debian fetches - if you specify a <depends> in the <fetch> that'll override the build depends in the package info (e.g. if you override configure switches so that certain things aren't needed etc.) | 10:43 |
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| keesj | Jaffa, and perhaps a flag to dump the existing debian directory? | 10:45 |
| Jaffa | like a cut down version of `mud get' ? | 10:45 |
| keesj | I needed that for sauna | 10:45 |
| keesj | and cvs target and mud get /compile have a problem because some installations will copy the .svn or CVS dirs | 10:46 |
| keesj | hm I must run export of course! | 10:47 |
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| keesj | and we need some example of installing a menu entry, | 10:48 |
| keesj | Jaffa, I like to first try "any way it goes" and after that make it nicer | 10:48 |
| Jaffa | :) | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | brb. | 10:49 |
| keesj | we can now perhaps remove the icon from the mud.xml because of the icon directory | 10:49 |
| Jaffa | Well, depends whether or not there's a decent icon somewhere already. Makes sense to get it from upstream if possible: then if they redesign their icon it's up-to-date already. | 10:50 |
| keesj | I am currently looking how the tuxpaint author and the original porter are reacting to mud | 10:52 |
| keesj | I find it really difficult, it would help if we had a policy, credits thing so I can mail | 10:53 |
| keesj | "We are happy to announce you that your wonderful port has been elected..." | 10:54 |
| hap | http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/ - this is soo true and i so much agree with it | 10:57 |
| hap | (and i had my n800 for 2 days) | 10:57 |
| Juhaz | parts of it are. mostly it's just a stupid flamebait | 11:00 |
| Juhaz | not entirely sure if I should cry or laugh when he blames gtk+ for nokias design decisions | 11:00 |
| hap | well i agree with most of it | 11:01 |
| hap | in 2 days i had most of the trouble he lists | 11:03 |
| hap | not being able to copy files in the filemanagers and just moving them | 11:03 |
| hap | (i used copy/paste from the editing menu, but what a pain) | 11:03 |
| Fatal | that's an impressive document | 11:04 |
| Fatal | and should be valued | 11:04 |
| Fatal | and not discarded as trolling | 11:05 |
| hap | well i'd say it lists all the troubles problems and thoughts i had using the n800 for 2 days | 11:05 |
| hap | so yeah it's valuable | 11:05 |
| Juhaz | it he doesn't want to be discarded as trolling maybe he should separate the freaking trolling from it | 11:06 |
| Fatal | he didn't troll | 11:06 |
| Juhaz | yes, he did. | 11:06 |
| hap | he didn't :) | 11:06 |
| Fatal | you however exhibit perfect fanboyism, covering your eyes and ears and going "lalalalallalalal" | 11:07 |
| Juhaz | just because there are valid arguments in there doesn't mean it's not trolling. it's obviously intended to be inflammatory | 11:07 |
| hap | i don't think so, it's not intended to be. | 11:07 |
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| Fatal | is it the fact that newton is old that you think it's an inflammatory article? | 11:07 |
| [mbm] | article above makes a number of good points .. very hard to take notes on an n800 | 11:08 |
| hap | "This goes along with the need for changable Icon bar icons. I don't want to have to wend my way through a menu to find an application to launch. I want to have it right there on my Icon bar, launched in one tap. Why can't I do this? " | 11:08 |
| hap | ^^ so true | 11:08 |
| Juhaz | Fatal, no. it's the tone, and language, and unbased accusations | 11:08 |
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| [mbm] | still waiting for a proper standby mode on the n800 | 11:09 |
| hap | [mbm]: yeah, i don't understand i can't do that. Shall I just turn the N800 off when i don't use it ? | 11:10 |
| hap | [mbm]: i left it turned on this night, to see, battery was empty this morning | 11:10 |
| [mbm] | I've been using the lock screen and keys, then waiting for the display to dim before putting it away | 11:10 |
| hap | so i guess i shouldn't leave it turned on | 11:10 |
| [mbm] | been finding that it doesn't stay in that mode | 11:10 |
| [mbm] | and that occasionally I turn it on to an almost dead battery | 11:11 |
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| [mbm] | so I started just turning it off completely | 11:11 |
| [mbm] | but then I get annoyed at how long it takes to boot and load apps back | 11:11 |
| hap | yup | 11:11 |
| [mbm] | I just want a "save state; turn off" | 11:11 |
| [mbm] | thought I could do that via the commandline and figured out what sort of works | 11:12 |
| [mbm] | where I could put it into a low power sleep .. then I found that if I leave it in that mode too long it just reboots or shuts off | 11:12 |
| hap | isn't anyone who worked on another GUI that fixes thoses problems ? | 11:13 |
| wumpus | [mbm]: maybe the watchdog timer kicks in or something | 11:13 |
| hap | to be able to drag & drop a little more, change icons, smaller left menu bar, etc | 11:13 |
| [mbm] | wumpus: sort of what I thought but then I went into r&d and turned off all the watchdogs via r&d flags and it still did it | 11:14 |
| [mbm] | wumpus: I can put it into a real standby mode for 30 seconds but more than that and it tends not to come out properly | 11:14 |
| [mbm] | always acts as if I just turned it on | 11:15 |
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| hap | the hardware behind the n800 is soo great, i don't get the fact than the software isn't as good as i would have expected. | 11:15 |
| mitcheloc | hola, how would i install this to the n800? https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mplayer/ | 11:15 |
| * [mbm] notes that the idle standby doesn't seem to reduce the power drain much beyond dimming the screen | 11:15 | |
| wumpus | hap: well it's an open source platform | 11:15 |
| hap | wumpus: well my question is "has anyone worked on it" | 11:16 |
| [mbm] | hap: I suspect that will quickly improve; the n800 has only been available for a few weeks so not all the usability issues have been addressed | 11:16 |
| hap | being opensource doesn't mean _you_ have time to improve it. You just expect something to reach a certain quality level when such a company as Nokia is behind. | 11:16 |
| hap | [mbm]: i agree. | 11:16 |
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| [mbm] | I write embeded linux firmwares; I'd say nokia did a damn good job with the initial release | 11:17 |
| hap | mbm: and i'll just wait :) but i feel like certain points are more like a "decision issue". Like the left menubar, etc. | 11:17 |
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| [mbm] | hap: what's wrong with the menubar? | 11:17 |
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| mitcheloc | i agree with hap the firmware definitely needs some help | 11:18 |
| hap | i'd like to be able to easily change icons on the left menu bars, i'd like to be able to drap & drop applications on the left to reach them via a single click | 11:18 |
| mitcheloc | the menu pop outs should take up the full screen, not pop-out, they are too small for a device like this | 11:18 |
| hap | instead of having to go to the windows like menu | 11:18 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: tap the app menu with your finger; you get a larger version then you do if you use the pen | 11:18 |
| hap | and i'd like a more icons like menu, like the palm or the iPhone interface i've seen online, and not a menu. | 11:18 |
| dwd | hap: I'd like to have a clipboard manager drop-zone on the LHS, for simple copy/paste between apps. | 11:18 |
| hap | dwd so would I | 11:19 |
| dwd | hap: I think that latter would be addressed by a drag/drop editable hotlist as you suggested. | 11:19 |
| hap | drag&drop text I've selected to the clipboard manager | 11:19 |
| [mbm] | as for the icons, they're probably just png files on the filesystem .. not too hard to swap but not intuitive | 11:19 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: i know of that featuer, i still think it should be full sized at all times... yes more like an ipod menu :) | 11:20 |
| hap | is there an online wishlist ? or shall I write a new wiki page ? :] | 11:20 |
| mitcheloc | and no i'm not an ipod fanboy, but the ui is better | 11:20 |
| hap | [mbm]: yeah, i'm more into something that don't require me a ssh to the device and type commands. | 11:20 |
| hap | mitcheloc: i agree. | 11:20 |
| [mbm] | hap: heh, that's pretty much the very first thing I did when I unpacked mine | 11:21 |
| hap | [mbm]: changing icons? | 11:21 |
| [mbm] | hap: ssh into it and poke at how it works | 11:21 |
| hap | oh yeah, sure hell | 11:21 |
| hap | how come can't I resize the calendar applet for the home. | 11:22 |
| Jaffa | Juhaz: however we've had Nokia staff *blaming* Gtk+ for design decisions in the last few days (that's not to say there was a better alternative to produce a timely product, but still...) | 11:22 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: while that's fun, i'm eying these to redesign around a crm system i'm building | 11:22 |
| hap | i think it comes from GPE. | 11:22 |
| Jaffa | hap: you can now, the resize API's only just been launched and the GPE calendar applet's always been a bit of a bodge anyway | 11:22 |
| mitcheloc | the crm is for schools and i'd like to give one to each teacher, but they are not computer smart | 11:22 |
| hap | Jaffa: ah ok. | 11:22 |
| mitcheloc | so it needs a simpler interface specifically easier to read | 11:22 |
| hap | Jaffa: i can resize some applet, not this one. | 11:22 |
| hap | well everyone said GPE is the best PIM in this channel when I asked which one to install | 11:23 |
| hap | if you have better, i'm very much interested :) | 11:23 |
| Jaffa | There isn't one | 11:23 |
| hap | Jaffa: i don't understand i can't select new appointment the way i do with google cal or ical, being able to select right away the timeline (beginning and) with drag&drop | 11:24 |
| hap | i think i have to click _then_ select the timeline within the modal window, sucks. | 11:24 |
| [mbm] | what I don't like about the article is that it seems to say "the n800 isn't a newton", making it sound as if perfection is just to be a newton | 11:24 |
| mitcheloc | how do you install the third party apps? like mplayer | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | hap: what don't you understand? It's a different program, with a different UI | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | hap: I suggest you submit a feature request on the GPE BugZilla | 11:24 |
| hap | Jaffa: well i don't understand because it's not user friendly. | 11:24 |
| hap | Jaffa: i will, i'll write down all the things than bothers me, don't worry :) | 11:24 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: I'm playing with the idea of putting openwrt on one | 11:25 |
| hap | [mbm]: i think the idea of the article is to address all the negative points, so does he. | 11:25 |
| hap | i'm sure all the good points don't have to be listed. | 11:25 |
| [mbm] | hap: I just wish the article had a better concept, or more examples of a good design other than setting the standard to a 10 year old product | 11:26 |
| mitcheloc | mplayer?? :) | 11:26 |
| hap | mitcheloc: i installed mine with apt-get i think, or straight installation | 11:27 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: mplay works, surf the maemo wiki, find the mplayer deb file and click; should open the app installer | 11:27 |
| mitcheloc | ahh through ssh? | 11:27 |
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| mitcheloc | [mbm]: surf it with the n800 right | 11:27 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: yeah, that's the easiest way | 11:27 |
| hap | mitcheloc: yeah, or through web browsing, clicking on the .deb | 11:28 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: also read the wiki part about app manager's "red pill" mode | 11:28 |
| zbenjamin | where is the maemo_af_desktop binary located in the SDK? In /usr/bin there is a file called maemo_af_desktop that is link to /usr/bin/maemo-invoker. Where is the real binary? | 11:28 |
| hap | [mbm]: yeah, well i think he spent a long time on that article already :) but better layout yeah | 11:28 |
| Juhaz | Jaffa, I'm sure some design decisions were influenced by real gtk limitations, but our mac fanboy makes it sound like each and every of his gripes are because nokia is using inexpertly designed lousy toolkit good for nothing but badly copying win95 - and yet most of the gripes aren't related to toolkit at all. | 11:28 |
| hap | [mbm]: i'd like a rotation mode. N800 vertical, would be great. | 11:29 |
| inz | zbenjamin, the real "binary" is /usr/bin/maemo_af_desktop.launch | 11:29 |
| inz | zbenjamin, but it is actually a shared library -- not a real binary | 11:29 |
| hap | am I the only one to feel the webcam has poor quality, or am I just expecting too much? | 11:29 |
| mitcheloc | Juhaz: lol, are you referring to me? | 11:29 |
| Juhaz | mitcheloc, no | 11:29 |
| mitcheloc | hap: i'm with you too on that -- specifically the angle is wrong to use for video conferencing | 11:30 |
| Jaffa | Juhaz: I see your point, however think that (unless it's criticising me ;-)) good points should be ignored by inflammatory presentation. | 11:30 |
| hap | mitcheloc: yeah, i can't be in front of the n800, i have to be on the left in front of the webcam | 11:30 |
| [mbm] | hap: I got so sick of how pdas always wnet portrait mode .. sharp sold a zaurus in japan which was basically a clamshell with a keyboard that folds over the screen .. lamdscape mode .. but all their us products used portait mode with a small keyboard fixed to the bottom | 11:30 |
| hap | mitcheloc: _that_ is stupid. | 11:30 |
| zbenjamin | inz, i added some debug outputs to maemo_af_desktop and did a dpkg-buildpackage. But i get only a maemo_af_desktop binarie | 11:30 |
| kjetilho | actually a 180 degree flip mode would be very useful | 11:30 |
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| kjetilho | you know -- for the lefthanded | 11:31 |
| hap | well i think it should be complety movable, like a chewing gum. | 11:31 |
| zbenjamin | inz, how can i use my created binary? | 11:31 |
| mitcheloc | hap: i figure i can overlook the camera and poor video playback on the device, it has a lot of other strong points | 11:31 |
| hap | [mbm]: zaurus was a mistake to me, i never bought one even my friends had. | 11:31 |
| wumpus | I wonder if they included the 3d acceleration stuff in the omap 2420 of the n800 | 11:32 |
| Juhaz | Jaffa, agreed | 11:32 |
| zuh | zbenjamin: You can copy it over the link (or rather, remove the link and copy your binary to /usr/bin) | 11:32 |
| Jaffa | kjetilho: yeah, it's amazing how limiting it is having to swap the stylus/hand when trying to use the d-pad | 11:32 |
| hap | mitcheloc: yeah, it's just than when i saw there was a webcam, i was expecting a little more. when i turned it on and didn't see myself and saw i had to move left... | 11:32 |
| Jaffa | Doom, for example, is a no go for lefties :-( | 11:32 |
| inz | zbenjamin, remove the symlink and place your binary over it | 11:32 |
| [mbm] | hap: I always thought the major downfall of the pda was text entry and I was waiting for that model to be available in the us .. never was .. only a much cheaper and ugler one made it | 11:32 |
| zuh | zbenjamin: The link to maemo-invoker is a hack to miminize startup time | 11:33 |
| kjetilho | anyone know if it is possible to licence Grafitti, btw? | 11:33 |
| inz | zbenjamin, if you don't say "DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=maemo-launcher", the packages should build real binaries | 11:33 |
| hap | yeah, text entry sux. That's why you want icons & drag&drop ;) | 11:33 |
| zbenjamin | zuh, is it the same on the device? | 11:33 |
| dwd | kjetilho: It's certainly possible. How much is another story. | 11:33 |
| inz | zuh, zbenjamin, and allow memory sharing | 11:33 |
| Jaffa | kjetilho: Anything's licenceable with appropriate amounts of cash | 11:33 |
| kjetilho | hehe | 11:33 |
| hap | i don't see myself using the xterm much on that device. Using it to run Kismet for example, it takes forever. | 11:33 |
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| hap | ssh localhost for root access, then kismet, pffiou | 11:34 |
| zbenjamin | inz, zuh thx i will have a look at it | 11:34 |
| [mbm] | there was a pda that had an interesting onscreen keyboard -- two semicircles in the bottom corners of the screen to hit with your thumbs while holding it | 11:34 |
| Jaffa | hap: just install the "becomeroot" package and then you can `sudo gainroot' rather than SSH. | 11:34 |
| [mbm] | think it was the ms orgami | 11:34 |
| hap | Jaffa: yeah i heard of this one, didn't remember the name, i'll install it | 11:34 |
| Jaffa | hap: you could also write a kismet wrapper which invoked it all | 11:34 |
| hap | Jaffa: i could :) | 11:34 |
| hap | and put it in the menu, i guess. | 11:34 |
| jpetersen | hi all | 11:35 |
| Jaffa | indeed :) | 11:35 |
| Jaffa | hap: consider it the start of your contributions which'll result in a cheap N900 in a year or so ;-) | 11:35 |
| [mbm] | Jaffa: heh, I've already used that so much it's the first thing to autocomplete when you type an s | 11:35 |
| hap | but i'd rather like to be able to drag&drop on the left menu. I feel like it's what i'll miss the most, drag&drop icons on the left the way i do it with the doc on my macos. | 11:35 |
| hap | haha yeah | 11:35 |
| zbenjamin | inz, does the device use the maemo-launcher? | 11:36 |
| hap | Jaffa: i feel like i want a "wishlist" website for the N800 where you could add items, title&explaination, put it in category (menu bar, system, etc) and users voting for items they want. | 11:36 |
| Jaffa | hap: there's something under Control Panel to restructure the apps menu | 11:36 |
| hap | so i don't feel alone when I want a new feature. | 11:37 |
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| hap | ok | 11:37 |
| Jaffa | hap: there's http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalogWishlist, but it's full of crap. Users don't think before adding things | 11:37 |
| [mbm] | hap: check the tabelteer site; I thought I saw some wishlist | 11:37 |
| mitcheloc | Jaffa: open source mentality should not apply to hardware design! | 11:37 |
| trickie | hap: there is a page on the wiki for wishlist | 11:37 |
| hap | trickie: ok | 11:37 |
| trickie | hap: as they all said already :) | 11:37 |
| Jaffa | "I want to run Windows Vista on my tablet on a PC emulator, why can't you just port wine?" | 11:37 |
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| trickie | Jaffa: s/Wishlist/WhingeList/ | 11:38 |
| hap | naa, i want tiger on my tablet :) | 11:38 |
| Jaffa | :) | 11:38 |
| konfoo | Jaffa: users dont think, period :) | 11:38 |
| Jaffa | konfoo: harsh... but fair ;-) | 11:38 |
| hap | but true | 11:38 |
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| konfoo | s/wishlist/sewer :) | 11:39 |
| wumpus | there is nothing 'open source mentality' about dumb users | 11:39 |
| wumpus | every os has the m:p | 11:39 |
| hap | Couldn't find package becomeroot | 11:40 |
| hap | uh | 11:40 |
| mitcheloc | wumpus: i'm talking about the camera mostly, not the software, it's a web tablet, and it does what it's advertised to do well | 11:40 |
| wumpus | yep, agreed | 11:40 |
| maddler | 'morning all... | 11:40 |
| inz | zbenjamin, yes, the device does use it wherever applicable | 11:40 |
| wumpus | opera works like a charm | 11:40 |
| Jaffa | hap: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006#head-650bc32d0f5abb355c6707b16a0e168e10c39ad0 | 11:40 |
| hap | Jaffa: all thoses usefull application should be put in a single apt source :) | 11:41 |
| zbenjamin | inz, my buildpackage builds automatically the normal binary how can i tell the buildsystem to build the library? | 11:41 |
| Jaffa | That's the point of "Extras", but authors can't be forced to upload them there (but I agree) | 11:41 |
| konfoo | i popped the camera out i think twice. once to test chat, the second to test the snapshot app i compiled | 11:41 |
| Jaffa | Anyone who produces their own repository is just making work for themselves, IMHO | 11:41 |
| konfoo | its a terrible little piece of hardware but it amuses me nevertheless | 11:42 |
| inz | zbenjamin, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=maemo-launcher dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot | 11:42 |
| hap | konfoo: terrible, you mean low quality ? :) | 11:42 |
| wumpus | yeah the quality isn't great | 11:42 |
| konfoo | yes | 11:42 |
| dwd | Jaffa: I do. But that's in no small part because anyone running Telomer right now needs to be able to pass the intelligence test of adding a repo. :-) | 11:42 |
| wumpus | remeinds me of my old philips webcam | 11:42 |
| zbenjamin | inz, thx | 11:42 |
| konfoo | wumpus exactly | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | dwd: Oh, yeah | 11:42 |
| konfoo | quickcam v1.0 | 11:43 |
| wumpus | then again, it's fun to do cam chat with, as if image quality is so important there | 11:43 |
| wumpus | idd :) | 11:43 |
| konfoo | i was going to make a camera app that did more than just save a jpeg.. i wonder who would use it | 11:43 |
| hap | konfoo: yeah, it's lower than the first philipps webcam i bought 10 years ago | 11:43 |
| mitcheloc | image angel is way more important!!! | 11:43 |
| mitcheloc | *angle | 11:43 |
| hap | mitcheloc: well i can move myself left, but i can't make the quality higher :) | 11:43 |
| inz | zbenjamin, ls /usr/bin/*.launch | wc says 38 on N800, so there's plenty of maemo-launcher users ;) | 11:44 |
| hap | dressing better won't change that | 11:44 |
| konfoo | move your face closer, hap :) | 11:44 |
| mitcheloc | hap: that's just awkward | 11:44 |
| zbenjamin | inz, ;-) | 11:44 |
| mitcheloc | maybe the nokia hardware developers have eyes on the side of their heads, like fish, so it's not awkward for them! (jk) | 11:44 |
| konfoo | there are quite a few lightweight c-based image processing routines that could improve the quality of snapshots.. margunally | 11:44 |
| hap | mitcheloc: how come nokia didn't notice before releasing? | 11:45 |
| konfoo | err marginally | 11:45 |
| konfoo | step 1 lose the color, though :) | 11:45 |
| mitcheloc | hap: that's why! | 11:45 |
| zbenjamin | inz, but shouldn't it be slower to start a binary and load a library instead of starting the binary directly? | 11:45 |
| hap | i don't understand, they never used it for video call purpose, maybe only to record someone in front of them | 11:45 |
| Jaffa | zbenjamin: the point is maemo-launcher is running constantly - it's started during boot | 11:45 |
| zbenjamin | ah okay | 11:46 |
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| wumpus | you could use the dsp to do some image processing probably | 11:46 |
| wumpus | filter out the noise etc | 11:46 |
| inz | zbenjamin, Jaffa, And maemo-launcer has gtk etc libraries loaded ready and pre-initialised | 11:46 |
| konfoo | nod | 11:46 |
| Jaffa | inz: exactly | 11:46 |
| konfoo | i have dozens of little routines from work | 11:46 |
| Jaffa | and gdkdisplay cached IIRC | 11:46 |
| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:46 |
| konfoo | kwikcam.. has a ring to it :) | 11:47 |
| hap | Jaffa: i agree http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalogWishlist is bullshit | 11:47 |
| zbenjamin | inz, is there a list of build options i can use? | 11:47 |
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| hap | Jaffa: it's even just spam right now :) | 11:47 |
| mitcheloc | mplayer froze on my tablet :( | 11:48 |
| inz | zbenjamin, you can check the debian/rules for some clues | 11:48 |
| wumpus | it's bullshit for sure :p | 11:48 |
| hap | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ImprovementIdeas looks better | 11:48 |
| Jaffa | The OS2007_Tested_Applications page is crap too. People don't seem to take any care of the documents they produce or edit; e.g. the first couple of apps were added by a non-English speaker and prefixed with "Application", now nearly everything is - even though it's a page listing applications. | 11:48 |
| inz | zbenjamin, common build options are noopt and nostrip | 11:48 |
| wumpus | my wishlist for n800 is certainly not 'more spam' :p | 11:49 |
| hap | Jaffa: yeah, wiki always requires moderator spending a lot of time fixing previous editing issues. | 11:49 |
| zbenjamin | inz, noopt and nostrip? that will result in greater binaries? | 11:49 |
| konfoo | catalogwishlist is anon-writeable... smart | 11:49 |
| inz | zbenjamin, in maemo programs quite common build option is thumb, (does _not_ work on i386) | 11:49 |
| Jaffa | :) | 11:50 |
| inz | zbenjamin, yes, but if you want to debug, they might be useful | 11:50 |
| zbenjamin | inz, maybe ;-) | 11:50 |
| wumpus | lol, someone wants to port the gimp to it | 11:51 |
| zbenjamin | inz, i can use dbus messages in the SDK? | 11:52 |
| dwd | wumpus: Excellent. I'd like them to port OpenOffice, while they're at it, too. | 11:52 |
| Jaffa | I think that's on there too | 11:52 |
| wumpus | well, inkscape is :) | 11:53 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, time for the dentist. Hopefully my N800'll be delivered whilst I'm out. | 11:53 |
| inz | zbenjamin, sure you can, the environment starts the session and system dbus daemons | 11:53 |
| inz | zbenjamin, just use run-standalone for any process that wants to use them | 11:54 |
| mitcheloc | whoo hoo! mplayer video quality is SOO much better :) | 11:54 |
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| mitcheloc | too bad you can't control playback lke rewind fastforward pause, eh! | 11:54 |
| hap | mitcheloc: well, i'm still not able to read some avi files i have | 11:54 |
| mitcheloc | hap: can you control the video with your mplayer? | 11:55 |
| hap | no | 11:55 |
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| [mbm] | mplayer plays more than the builtin player but mplayer still can't play most modern codecs at full framerate | 11:55 |
| maddler | Jaffa: good luck for both! | 11:55 |
| zbenjamin | inz, i want to load a statusbar plugin but it will not work... | 11:55 |
| zbenjamin | don't know why | 11:55 |
| hap | mitcheloc: http://penso.info/tmp/dmd-guardian-sample.avi | 11:56 |
| hap | mitcheloc: can you play that ? | 11:56 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: you can control playback via the direction pad; works just like the arrows did on a linux pc | 11:56 |
| hap | with nice fps and all, smooth play | 11:56 |
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| mitcheloc | hap: do i have to download that to my memory card? (noob here) or can i open it directly from mplayer? | 11:56 |
| mitcheloc | like an http stream | 11:57 |
| hap | i don't know, try & tell me :) | 11:57 |
| inz | zbenjamin, you have a .desktop for it? | 11:57 |
| hap | didn't try http stream yet | 11:57 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: thanks, i'll try that | 11:57 |
| zbenjamin | inz, do i need a .dektop for it if i try to load it with dbus-send? | 11:57 |
| inz | zbenjamin, on IT2007 you might | 11:57 |
| zbenjamin | inz, its IT2006 | 11:58 |
| zbenjamin | inz, its a 770 | 11:58 |
| inz | Ah, there you shouldn't need | 11:58 |
| [mbm] | hap: fired up mplayer from the terminal, streaming directly from the url .. plays but it seems to be missing every other frame | 11:58 |
| hap | yeah, you see ... | 11:58 |
| hap | let me put you another one i tried to optimize for n800 | 11:58 |
| zbenjamin | inz, where do i have to put the .desktop file? Maybe i need one.... | 11:58 |
| mitcheloc | hap: how big is that file? | 11:59 |
| hap | i dont know, 10m? | 11:59 |
| [mbm] | hap: also seems to be missing audio | 11:59 |
| mitcheloc | i'm downloading it over my evdo =(, do you still want me to try it from the memory card? | 11:59 |
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| inz | zbenjamin, err, the IT2006 doesn't need (or use) them | 11:59 |
| hap | [mbm]: yeah, and it plays fine on my desktop :( | 11:59 |
| [mbm] | oh .. ac3 audio, codec not found | 11:59 |
| [mbm] | switch the audio to mp3 and you should have sound | 12:00 |
| zbenjamin | inz, but if i look in code add_user_items the meamo_af_desktop looks for a *.desktop file (but thats for loading the plugin at startup) | 12:00 |
| [mbm] | don't know how well the n800 would cope with ac3 decoding | 12:01 |
| mitcheloc | oops, the episode of 24 i tried froze mplayer =( | 12:01 |
| [mbm] | mplayer's gmplauncher is quirky and tends to respawn mplayer multiple times | 12:01 |
| hap | another one to try: http://penso.info/tmp/ED_n800.avi | 12:01 |
| Molagi | my mplayer freezes too | 12:01 |
| Molagi | every 2minuter | 12:02 |
| hap | this one plays ok, but at the beinning of the video the default media player misses frames | 12:02 |
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| mitcheloc | hap: are you resizing the video for the screen? | 12:02 |
| hap | mitcheloc: you mean the one you encoded yourself from your DVD ? ;) | 12:02 |
| hap | mitcheloc: yeah, 400x240 | 12:02 |
| mitcheloc | hap: of course | 12:02 |
| hap | for the ED file | 12:02 |
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| hap | the one other was straight out from internet | 12:02 |
| [mbm] | got sound but video is really lacking | 12:03 |
| mitcheloc | what movie is that? "guardian"? | 12:03 |
| [mbm] | think I saw 3 frames of video out of the entire clip | 12:03 |
| hap | mitcheloc: i guess :) | 12:03 |
| [mbm] | ed is obviously elephant's dream | 12:04 |
| [mbm] | not sure what the other was | 12:04 |
| hap | yeah, I use ED for video test | 12:04 |
| inz | zbenjamin, well anyway, osso-statusbar-cpu works nicely on it2006 and sports no .desktop file | 12:04 |
| hap | no "rights" troubles | 12:04 |
| mitcheloc | ED froze mplayer again, maybe i need to restart my device... | 12:06 |
| kulve | zbenjamin, inz: I think the desktop files for status bar plugins were introduced in it2007 | 12:06 |
| mitcheloc | the wifi support in the n800 is really good | 12:07 |
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| zbenjamin | inz, it looks like the statusbar item api has not changed from IT2005 to IT2006 | 12:08 |
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| inz | kulve, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/maemo-branches/IT-2006/maemo-af-desktop/hildon-status-bar/hildon-status-bar-main.c | 12:08 |
| inz | kulve, the .desktop files are used in IT2006 at least | 12:08 |
| hap | when i download something from opera, i have a modal window. Why is that so ? | 12:08 |
| hap | you can't browse while it downloads :( | 12:08 |
| inz | hap, you can always press "close" | 12:09 |
| mitcheloc | hap: ed is playing pretty well now that i restarted it | 12:09 |
| hap | inz: it won't stop the download? | 12:09 |
| kulve | inz: ok, then I remembered wrong. Sorry.. | 12:09 |
| inz | hap, nope | 12:09 |
| hap | mitcheloc: ed crashes my mplayer too | 12:09 |
| czr | any keyboard people would recommend using with 800? | 12:09 |
| hap | inz: well "close" would make me think so, thanks for the hint. | 12:09 |
| mitcheloc | i don't think it's ed, it's mplayer that is the problem... it's very un-stable | 12:09 |
| mitcheloc | i'm try the built in player with ED | 12:10 |
| mitcheloc | czr: i've never tried but those bluetooth foldable ones look good | 12:10 |
| [mbm] | hmm got slightly better framerate playing with the mplayer commandline | 12:10 |
| mitcheloc | czr: what application would the keyboard be useful with? only e-mail? | 12:11 |
| czr | mitcheloc, well, yes. but I'm looking for someone who actually has something to recommend (based on personal experience) | 12:11 |
| czr | mitcheloc, cli | 12:11 |
| [mbm] | -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all | 12:11 |
| mitcheloc | czr: good point :) | 12:12 |
| mitcheloc | hap: have you tried the media-streamer application? | 12:12 |
| hap | not yet | 12:12 |
| [mbm] | now I'm only missing 90% of the frames | 12:13 |
| mitcheloc | hap: neither work with the n800 | 12:13 |
| mitcheloc | * built in media player | 12:13 |
| mitcheloc | czr: maybe the n900 will have a built in slide-out keyboard :) | 12:14 |
| wumpus | would only make it bigger and heavier imo | 12:14 |
| wumpus | I don't use it for any data entry anyway | 12:14 |
| [mbm] | think you can buy a bluetooth keyboard for the n800 | 12:15 |
| mitcheloc | i meant if they can keep the existing form factor | 12:15 |
| wumpus | you can [mbm] | 12:15 |
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| wumpus | that would mean a really tiny and unusable keyboard I'm afraid mikemorrison | 12:15 |
| wumpus | mitcheloc* | 12:15 |
| wumpus | not much better than the onscreen one | 12:15 |
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| wumpus | like the stupid little keys some pdas have *shiver* | 12:16 |
| czr | mitcheloc, that's not really helping :-) | 12:17 |
| mitcheloc | wumpus: i have a t-mobile mda with slide out keyboard, it's very useful | 12:17 |
| czr | mitcheloc, nah, just wondering whether using a proper keyboard with 800 will make it any more useful for me | 12:17 |
| [mbm] | hmm where the hell is the nfs/samba support | 12:17 |
| mitcheloc | nfs/samba! that'd be awesome! (i'm loving this more every minute) | 12:17 |
| [mbm] | you know, I'd love it if mplayer got to the point I could connect to my mythtv box and stream live tv | 12:19 |
| [mbm] | which isn't happening any time soon since my mythtv box is only recording hdtv signals | 12:19 |
| [mbm] | (don't think the n800 would be able to deal with 1920x1080i mpeg2 transports) | 12:20 |
| hap | ok i finished to read http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/ at all | 12:20 |
| zbenjamin | in maemo_af_desktop there is a function called osso_log where can i read the logmessages? | 12:20 |
| hap | i really agree with all, have you seen the menu when you hit with your fingers | 12:20 |
| hap | the arrows moves the menu of 1 pixel (sic) | 12:20 |
| hap | => not usable to move down | 12:20 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: if you use the upnp abilities and convert the video on your myth box, i think you can do just that | 12:20 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: got the upnp turned on but mediastreamer can't do much beyond tell me there's a mythtv server somewhere on my network | 12:21 |
| [mbm] | gives a 'not found' if I try to tell it to play | 12:22 |
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| [mbm] | hap: hmm don't see any menu issues here | 12:22 |
| keesj | some of the flash games on the wii sites are pretty nice | 12:23 |
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| hap | [mbm]: takes me 4 seconds to move to the bottom, keeping my finger on the arrow | 12:25 |
| hap | too long ... far too long. | 12:25 |
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| hap | a single hit should move down of a page, or at least an application. | 12:26 |
| [mbm] | hap: think that's annoying you haven't tried to edit a command in the xterm .. moving the cursor with the arrows is way too slow | 12:26 |
| hap | right now a single hit move down of a pixel | 12:26 |
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| mitcheloc | hap: good read, i hope nokia follows the suggestions and updates maemo! | 12:26 |
| hap | [mbm]: don't be sarcastic, it's different purpose | 12:26 |
| hap | [mbm]: we're talking UI issues | 12:27 |
| hap | mitcheloc: yeah i agree | 12:27 |
| [mbm] | hap: hey, at least the menus you can click on the menu item, I can't just click on the character in the xterm and jump the cursor there | 12:27 |
| * [mbm] far more apt to use the xterm than the menus | 12:28 | |
| hap | [mbm]: i had that tought too when i wanted to edit a cmomand line on the xterm | 12:28 |
| hap | having to move all the way to the point i wanted to edit, instead of clicking somewhere | 12:28 |
| [mbm] | well, large part of that is the fact it's a terminal and terminals don't normally support touchscreens so there's no way of telling the shell you want to move the cursor to a given spot | 12:29 |
| hap | mbm: yeah, it's more like a xterm issue, which i wouldn't consider a nokia problem | 12:30 |
| [mbm] | I'd be happy if they just increase the key repeat rate | 12:30 |
| hap | the menu is part of the N800, i get more expectations from it | 12:30 |
| [mbm] | true | 12:30 |
| hap | and that menu issue is a terrible issue to me, anyone who would use it for 2 days would be bothered with it | 12:30 |
| hap | i I was working at Nokia myself, and I would just report about it and ask someone to work on it if I was chief, or work on it myself. | 12:31 |
| hap | (and wouldn't blame GTK or other to be the reason) | 12:31 |
| [mbm] | list of mild annoyances on these thigns is incredibly long | 12:31 |
| hap | yeah | 12:32 |
| kjetilho | [mbm]: on the other hand, the XTerm app is hand crafted for the device, and knows where the cursor is | 12:32 |
| [mbm] | you haven't even mentioned that wifi is unstable and can't even connect to some access points (crashes the wifi support) | 12:32 |
| kjetilho | it can synthesize the needed keypresses | 12:32 |
| hap | i feel i'll write a website quickly to be able to add such annoyances | 12:32 |
| hap | [mbm]: yeah, i haven't move from home yet, my 2 wifis points got ok, i'm 2 meters away from the router | 12:33 |
| kjetilho | (it will break some times, though. e.g. vi.) | 12:33 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: wifi is really good on my device? | 12:33 |
| hap | kjetilho: as i said, it's more an 'application' annoyance than nokia's fault | 12:33 |
| [mbm] | kjetilho: sure, but if I'm ssh'd into my server, what's the api to report the screen clicks? the arrow keys might not take you were you expect depending on the application running | 12:33 |
| kjetilho | yes, but the arrow keys might not work, either. | 12:34 |
| kjetilho | ie. if you're running ed | 12:34 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: seems to depend highly on the access point you're connected to | 12:34 |
| kjetilho | (has anyone packaged ed, btw? I miss it ...) | 12:34 |
| mitcheloc | i'm using a belkin pre-n access point, works perfectly | 12:34 |
| [mbm] | kjetilho: that's what I mean.. there's a gpm library but most apps don't use it | 12:34 |
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| [mbm] | terminal apps aren't structured to handle mouse input; not really a problem with the terminal program itself | 12:35 |
| mitcheloc | hap: what command line options were you giving mplayer to convert the video? | 12:35 |
| * hap encoded all the ED movie | 12:35 | |
| hap | mitcheloc: i use some java app i found online, let me find that for you | 12:36 |
| kjetilho | mitcheloc: I used the 770-encode.pl script on the web | 12:36 |
| mitcheloc | hap: are you planning on playing it through mplayer? it seems to crash too much for that to be possible | 12:36 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: for playback I'd suggest -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all -cache 8192 | 12:36 |
| kjetilho | the Java app was non-functional on my Linux box -- the file chooser didn't let me choose anything | 12:36 |
| hap | mitcheloc: it's just to make a test, i'll put the video online within minutes | 12:36 |
| hap | mitcheloc: i need to release video to talk about it with other developers, don't I ? :) | 12:36 |
| * kjetilho watched an episode of 24 on the tube to work today :-) | 12:37 | |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: using those options on tne n800 you can almost watch it at 1fps | 12:37 |
| mitcheloc | hap: can you try converting the video so that the default media player can play it? | 12:37 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: 1fps or 11fps? | 12:37 |
| mitcheloc | kjetilho: i'm looking at the script right now | 12:38 |
| hap | ah, i just crashed the n800 deleting an appointment | 12:38 |
| hap | no more respond | 12:38 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: well, without those options it stalled right at a closeup of the wall | 12:38 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: with those options it atleast played all the way through .. wasn't really 1fps but was nowhere near the full | 12:38 |
| hap | can I restart the GUI from command line ? | 12:38 |
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| hap | mitcheloc: http://mplayer.garage.maemo.org/ - see the media converter | 12:39 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: i think since we *have* to convert the video, the ideal strategy would be to get the default player to work, right? | 12:39 |
| [mbm] | what format was the sample clip that came on the 800? it played fine | 12:39 |
| hap | mitcheloc: i agree | 12:39 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: yeah, figure out the best codec and just convert | 12:39 |
| hap | [mbm]: i looked, it's 400x240 / 628K / 25FPS / 0.262 bits per pixel, opendivx | 12:39 |
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| [mbm] | think I deleted the clip off mine | 12:40 |
| hap | you shouldn't :) you want it back? | 12:40 |
| [mbm] | nah | 12:40 |
| [mbm] | I'm sure I have a copy somewhere | 12:40 |
| [mbm] | foudn it | 12:41 |
| [mbm] | mplayer can't play that anywhere near as good as the builtin player | 12:42 |
| hap | i agree | 12:42 |
| hap | they say mplayer has a lot of improvments to go for the n800. | 12:42 |
| hap | so best is to encode for the default player. | 12:42 |
| [mbm] | I think the builtin player is using video acceleration | 12:42 |
| hap | i think so | 12:43 |
| [mbm] | I know mplayer isn't | 12:43 |
| [mbm] | wonder if there's xv support | 12:43 |
| hap | the audio sound quality with my koss hearplugs is awesome btw | 12:43 |
| hap | very happy about that | 12:43 |
| zuh | N800 has xv, yes (dunno if mplayer uses it) | 12:44 |
| kjetilho | is it just me, or is the maximum volume kind of low? (using the plugs which comes with the 770) | 12:44 |
| [mbm] | mplayer on the 770 does a yuv trick, on the n800 it just does x11 .. horribly slow | 12:44 |
| bergie | UPS has marked my N800 as "out for delivery" already 3 hours ago, I wonder when it arrives | 12:44 |
| [mbm] | bet if someone recompiled mplayer with hardware support like xv it'd actually be pretty damned good | 12:45 |
| * [mbm] tries -vo xv | 12:45 | |
| hap | bergie: within the day in general | 12:45 |
| bergie | hap: I hope so :-) | 12:45 |
| [mbm] | hmm they didn't compile mplayer with xv | 12:46 |
| * bergie gave the 770 to a guy who's porting Midgard to Maemo last weekend | 12:46 | |
| hap | what that for? | 12:47 |
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| hap | would it be of any use? | 12:47 |
| X-Fade | bergie: Mine is out for delivery too :) Let's see if I can beat you.. | 12:47 |
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| bergie | hap: Midgard is an application framework on top of glib and libgda | 12:47 |
| bergie | hap: what we use it for is the PHP component architecture that is built on top of it | 12:48 |
| hap | aah i thought about the online content php website. | 12:48 |
| bergie | but obviously that itself wouldn't be that useful on Maemo :-) | 12:48 |
| bergie | but since Midgard | 12:48 |
| bergie | ...supports replication, I though we might come up with some interesting Maemo -> Web integration | 12:48 |
| [mbm] | http://pastebin.ca/327894 .. xdpyinfo for an n800 .. xvideo support | 12:49 |
| [mbm] | ooh, randr | 12:50 |
| [mbm] | there's the rotate support | 12:50 |
| hap | http://penso.info/tmp/N800/ | 12:51 |
| hap | here is 50M for Elephant Dreams | 12:51 |
| [mbm] | lmao it worked | 12:51 |
| [mbm] | flipped the screen 180 | 12:51 |
| hap | it plays smooth on my N800 within the default player, for few minutes | 12:51 |
| hap | then it hangs, crashes, etc. | 12:51 |
| hap | and don't try to move forward... | 12:52 |
| [mbm] | hmm rotate 90 made it reboot :/ | 12:52 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: you flipped the entire maemo interface screen or just the video? | 12:52 |
| hap | mitcheloc: don't dream, only the video :) | 12:52 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: the entire maemo ui | 12:52 |
| hap | [mbm]: did you ?? | 12:52 |
| mitcheloc | how?? | 12:52 |
| [mbm] | connected to the x server remotely and told it to rotate 180 | 12:52 |
| [mbm] | just using the randr extensions | 12:53 |
| mitcheloc | sweet | 12:53 |
| [mbm] | I'd take a screenshot, but that doesn't prove anything on a 180 rotate | 12:53 |
| mitcheloc | can you give us instructions? | 12:53 |
| [mbm] | do you have dropbear installed yet? | 12:54 |
| hap | well if it reboots the device, is that interesting :) | 12:54 |
| [mbm] | x server normally kicks you off remote connections, had to use dropbear to portforward and drop the x restrictions | 12:54 |
| mitcheloc | dropbear is in garage? | 12:55 |
| [mbm] | read the wiki and add maemo to your repositories | 12:55 |
| [mbm] | heh .. maemo doesn't like being rotated | 12:57 |
| mitcheloc | my n800 is currrently extending the virtual memory to my sd card -- have to wait for that first | 12:57 |
| zbenjamin | inz, found my dumb error | 12:57 |
| [mbm] | screen isn't redrawing properly and the touchscreen is all wrong | 12:57 |
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| zbenjamin | inz, i forgot to rename the plugin_entry functions so maemo_af_desktop could not find it | 12:58 |
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| inz | zben, d0h | 12:58 |
| [mbm] | hmm damn, can't use the ui enough to rotate the screen back | 12:59 |
| [mbm] | *g* | 12:59 |
| zbenjamin | is there a default location for icons? | 13:00 |
| zbenjamin | ah /usr/share/icons..... | 13:01 |
| inz | or /usr/share/pixmaps, whatever suits you best | 13:01 |
| [mbm] | heh just a sec, I'll take a picture of the device rotated | 13:03 |
| [mbm] | http://mbm.openwrt.org/n800-rotated.jpg | 13:08 |
| [mbm] | (also clearly shows the video acceleration used since the video doesn't line up with the window | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | [mbm]: http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/7-xrandr-on-nokia-770.html :) | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | Even sideways.. | 13:09 |
| [mbm] | X-Fade: I rotated the x server, not the fb | 13:10 |
| X-Fade | this is xrandr? | 13:10 |
| [mbm] | yeah | 13:10 |
| X-Fade | That too :) | 13:10 |
| mitcheloc | i was like...that doesn't look rotated... but it's rotated 180 degrees :) | 13:11 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: heh, I as holding it rotated, went to pop out the camera .. doh! camera is over there now .. | 13:12 |
| [mbm] | device is almost symetrical so you don't notice that it's upsidedown | 13:13 |
| mitcheloc | you still can't angle the camera properly eh | 13:13 |
| [mbm] | yeah, I wanted a shot of the camera on screen, hence why it's taken at a weird angle | 13:13 |
| [mbm] | hah, even the nokia logo on shutdown is flipped | 13:15 |
| [mbm] | (rebooted it to fix the rotation) | 13:15 |
| mitcheloc | i'm going to see if i can replace that logo :) | 13:15 |
| [mbm] | it's on the filesystem somewhere.. I found it when I was looking around the device | 13:16 |
| [mbm] | that one isn't nearly as ugly asn the 'pull my finger' it does on startup | 13:16 |
| mitcheloc | arg! what's with those stupid "please don't read this" people on youtube! | 13:17 |
| sp3001 | startup? what's that | 13:17 |
| sp3001 | (sang to the tune of "desktop? what's that?") | 13:17 |
| [mbm] | sp3001: show me how to put the n800 into suspend :P | 13:17 |
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| florian | hi all | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | bergie: Got mine ;) | 13:31 |
| inz | meh, osso-xterm shortcut editing bug fixed now | 13:32 |
| bergie | X-Fade: congrats! I'll ping you when mine arrives (hopefully it does so before I have to leave to a client) | 13:32 |
| inz | So the new shortcuts work without restarting the program | 13:32 |
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| Sage | Anyone compiled web server software for 770, for example Apache? | 13:37 |
| inz | At least thttpd is there, someone was speaking of lighttpd, IIRC | 13:37 |
| [mbm] | wow, mplayer with xv support is actually very good | 13:40 |
| * [mbm] tries hap's clip again | 13:40 | |
| kjetilho | can you do full-res at 25 fps? | 13:40 |
| kjetilho | (in _any_ codec) | 13:40 |
| kjetilho | (my E61 has a nice video of the hands when it boots, I was a bit disappointed it was a fixed image on the 770) | 13:42 |
| [mbm] | that ed clip of haps is now playing perfectly | 13:42 |
| [mbm] | playing http://penso.info/tmp/ED_n800.avi | 13:42 |
| [mbm] | was about to compile mplayer myself when I found this deb - http://ufo2000.xcomufo.com/maemo/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.n800.experimental_armel.deb | 13:43 |
| [mbm] | which works great | 13:43 |
| mitcheloc | does that work better then the one on the garage.maemo website? | 13:43 |
| [mbm] | MUCH BETTER | 13:43 |
| * mitcheloc tries and hopes there is no virus! | 13:44 | |
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| [mbm] | just watched the clip at what appears to be full framerate | 13:45 |
| [mbm] | BENCHMARKn: disp: 685 (23.04 fps) drop: 0 (0%) total: 685 (23.04 fps) | 13:46 |
| [mbm] | heh.. yep | 13:46 |
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| mitcheloc | it's really sweet how open the platform is, i'm loving this (except for the camera) | 13:48 |
| [mbm] | heh | 13:48 |
| mitcheloc | i think the n800 would get a much wider audience if the ui was improved more | 13:48 |
| kjetilho | [mbm]: but it's still only 400x240 | 13:48 |
| sxpert-work | mitcheloc: what's up with the camera ? | 13:48 |
| kjetilho | mitcheloc: s/ui/apps/ | 13:48 |
| [mbm] | sp3001: it's impossible to stand infront of the camera without holding it weird | 13:49 |
| mitcheloc | sxpert-work: #1 it doesn't angle properly so you can have a comfortable video conference and #2 the quality is very poor | 13:49 |
| sxpert-work | ah... | 13:49 |
| sxpert-work | mitcheloc: it's the optics that are too small, a classic | 13:49 |
| mitcheloc | considering nokia can make 3+megapixel camera phones, i'm missing how they couldn't put a better chip/design into the camera.... | 13:49 |
| [mbm] | the n800 camera looks horrible under low light | 13:50 |
| [mbm] | just colored spots | 13:50 |
| sxpert-work | yeah. the optical part is probably way too small | 13:50 |
| inz | [mbm], <insert any "cheap" camera> looks horrible under low light | 13:51 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: fine, but the marketing is COMPLETE BS if they are trying to sell on "video conferencing" capabilities | 13:51 |
| [mbm] | inz: yeah I know | 13:51 |
| mitcheloc | the camera is the wrong angle, i can't believe that!!!!!! | 13:51 |
| sxpert-work | mitcheloc: that's marketing for you | 13:51 |
| mitcheloc | marketing departments should be held accountable :) | 13:52 |
| sxpert-work | mitcheloc: that's what happens when marketing takes a good device (the 770) and adds features without letting the engineers handle the details | 13:52 |
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| sxpert-work | mitcheloc: then again, you can't expect much from a camera that has a lens 1mm in diameter | 13:53 |
| mitcheloc | sxpert-work: the 770 is better then the 800? | 13:53 |
| sxpert-work | mitcheloc: I preferred the "no shitty aluminium powder paint" look | 13:54 |
| mitcheloc | full black would have been sweet :) | 13:54 |
| sxpert-work | right | 13:54 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: i tried that build of mplayer, can't get it to work properly either | 13:55 |
| mitcheloc | sxpert-work: there might be a way to replace the faceplate | 13:55 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: from the commandline, try - mplayer -benchmark -vo xv -cache 8192 -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all http://penso.info/tmp/ED_n800.avi | 13:55 |
| sxpert-work | mitcheloc: also, the disappearance of the protector cover means that if I leave the device in my pocket, the screen could be hit, or clicked | 13:56 |
| [mbm] | sxpert-work: yeah, it need a better suspend | 13:56 |
| sxpert-work | [mbm]: also, the aluminium cover protects the screen from adverse things in my pocket | 13:57 |
| mitcheloc | [mbm]: i still have not tried setting up a command line on my n800, what app do i need to download? | 13:58 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, still got all my teeth - but no N800 yet | 14:05 |
| [mbm] | mitcheloc: read the wiki | 14:06 |
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| jcml_ | I think the protector's absence is so they can sell after-market covers. | 14:16 |
| jcml_ | They must have made some compromises to get it "Nseries" branded - I'd be surprised if profitable after-market sales projections wasn't a required part of the product launch ... | 14:17 |
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| mitcheloc | it seems like everyone here uses "they" to refer to nokia/maemo devs, do they lurk here? | 14:18 |
| Sage | inz: thx | 14:19 |
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| zuh | mitcheloc: some of them, yes | 14:20 |
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| obi | where can I see which fonts can be loaded through XLoadQueryFont()? I am trying to port an x11 game which tries to load a font called "9x15", but it can't find it on the 770 | 14:32 |
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| jcml_ | obi: What about porting (or finding an existing port of) xfontsel? | 14:37 |
| obi | isn't it possible to locate the available fonts somewhere in the filesystem? | 14:38 |
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| jcml_ | I'm not sure. That would be the way I'd do it on the desktop ... :-) | 14:46 |
| kulve | hildon-widgets/hildon-font-selection-dialog.h | 14:49 |
| kulve | does that relate in any way to anything..? | 14:50 |
| obi | i searched for XLoadQueryFont in http://maemo.org/lxr/ and after following some links i saw that the default font is called "fixed" | 14:53 |
| obi | which works now and seems to be a good replacement | 14:53 |
| kjetilho | jcml_: xlsfonts would be trivial to port. but I don't think many apps use legacy fonts on Maemo | 14:55 |
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| X-Fade | Just made a VOIP call to a landline in another country with Gizmo. Works really well :) | 15:08 |
| |tbb| | x-Fade do u own a n8? | 15:09 |
| X-Fade | Yep, now I do :) | 15:09 |
| X-Fade | Got it 2 hours ago ;) | 15:09 |
| |tbb| | when u dial your number from another country do u add + before | 15:10 |
| mitcheloc | X-Fade: using the headphone set? or speaker/mic? | 15:10 |
| X-Fade | |tbb|: No, the number was in the country were my voip-in number was. So I didn't need to.. | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | mitcheloc: I just use it handsfree | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | But tested headphones/mic to. They could not hear the difference.. | 15:11 |
| |tbb| | i think it wont work with the + | 15:11 |
| keesj | is the sensitivity of the screen controllable? | 15:12 |
| Jaffa | Yay, it arrived just before lunch :-D | 15:13 |
| keesj | Joepie! | 15:13 |
| maddler | Jaffa: my N8 is @ home!!! | 15:14 |
| inz | *sigh* I want one too! But I cannot afford pay 400 eur for it... | 15:14 |
| maddler | Godot arrived at last!!! | 15:14 |
| Jaffa | maddler: yay! but, let me guess, you're not... | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | inz: Didn't you get a code? | 15:14 |
| * Jaffa sets it on charge. | 15:14 | |
| |tbb| | congratz maddler, congratz ups | 15:14 |
| inz | X-Fade, nope | 15:14 |
| maddler | Jaffa: woah!!! how did u guess?! | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | inz: That must be a mistake.. | 15:14 |
| mitcheloc | congrats to both of you :) | 15:15 |
| inz | X-Fade, I'd say "policy" rather than "mistake", but nevertheless I would have liked one | 15:15 |
| Jaffa | "policy"? | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | maddler: must just be psychic | 15:16 |
| X-Fade | inz: I think you have done more than a lot of other people did? | 15:16 |
| mitcheloc | where on the wiki does it say how to install or where to get xterm? | 15:16 |
| keesj | people who's name start with i are evil | 15:17 |
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| inz | keesj, s/name/nick/ ;) | 15:17 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: http://maemo-hackers.org/wiki/OssoXterm | 15:18 |
| mitcheloc | kulve: thank you | 15:18 |
| inz | Wtf, have I written instructions... weird... | 15:18 |
| mitcheloc | kulve: those appear only be instructions for the n770 | 15:19 |
| kulve | I just installed it for n800 | 15:19 |
| kulve | most of the apps works for both, afaik | 15:19 |
| mitcheloc | okay, the 0.12 deb? | 15:19 |
| kulve | at that site, I mean | 15:20 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: I can't remember the version. I just added the repo and installed it with the app. mgr. | 15:20 |
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| inz | mitcheloc, don't follow the it2005 instructions, but it2006 or (refresh for) it2007, depending if you have 770 or N800 | 15:21 |
| kulve | inz: so you just added the bora repo..? | 15:22 |
| inz | kulve, the bora repo has been there for a while | 15:22 |
| kulve | oh, ok | 15:22 |
| inz | kulve, the only difference is, that with bora repo, you don't need any additional repositories | 15:22 |
| |tbb| | mitcheloc, add repository http://maemo-hackers.org/apt bora main | 15:22 |
| mitcheloc | |tbb|: thanks, i was just goint to ask that :) | 15:23 |
| inz | kulve, when building with mistral, you get dependencies on libraries like libxau0 | 15:23 |
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| mitcheloc | there aren't many packages in the repo are there? installing xterm right now! | 15:24 |
| mitcheloc | (btw thanks to all of you) | 15:24 |
| kulve | hmm.. updating xterm to 0.13.mh19bora1 | 15:25 |
| jpetersen | just got my N800 | 15:25 |
| jpetersen | nice device | 15:25 |
| maddler | jpetersen: you bet it is! | 15:26 |
| inz | kulve, if you had mh19 previously, there's no functional change | 15:26 |
| kulve | I had mistral repo.. | 15:26 |
| inz | kulve, well, if you had the newest from mistral repo, then there's no change, otherwise there may be shortcut editor or fixed run-time updates to the shortcuts | 15:27 |
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| kulve | inz: yeah, but if "apt-get upgrade" (or some GUI frontend) tells there's something to upgrade, I usually upgrade :) | 15:27 |
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| inz | ;) | 15:28 |
| jpetersen | is 2.2006.51-6 the latest version? | 15:30 |
| kulve | yep | 15:30 |
| mitcheloc | i keep having to restart my n8, i'll upgrade to 2.2006.51-6 to | 15:31 |
| mitcheloc | *too | 15:32 |
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| X-Fade | Mine came preloaded with 51-6 already.. | 15:32 |
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| Andy80 | hi | 15:32 |
| maddler | heya Andy80 | 15:33 |
| mitcheloc | so i got an older device? i can still exchange mine maybe they slipped in a hardware revision, hows the camera on yours? | 15:33 |
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| Andy80 | I need a little tip... if I write some code and I want to test it ecc... do I have to kee the code inside the /scratchbox/ folders or ca I keep it as usual into /home/andy80/documents/sources/ ? | 15:34 |
| jpetersen | X-Fade: mine too | 15:34 |
| kulve | Andy80: you need to compile it inside the SB, so you need to keep it there too (I think) | 15:35 |
| X-Fade | mitcheloc: Well, it is ok I guess. Lots of noise in low licht conditions. | 15:35 |
| kulve | I think they all have lot's of noise.. | 15:36 |
| maddler | Andy80: if you compile using *ARMEL* target you have to execute it in the same target | 15:36 |
| mitcheloc | X-Fade: i meant mostly if it's angled so you can face the device straight on | 15:36 |
| Andy80 | ok... I'll give andy80 the permission to write inside that folder | 15:36 |
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| kulve | Andy80: you should have your own account there inside the SB with your own home directory.. | 15:36 |
| Andy80 | kulve: yes I've | 15:37 |
| kulve | you shouldn't need to explicitly give any access rights there.. | 15:37 |
| Andy80 | ah ok... | 15:37 |
| X-Fade | mitcheloc: Then I only see my left ear ;) | 15:37 |
| mitcheloc | whoo, i'm in through dropbear! :) | 15:37 |
| maddler | mitcheloc: good :) | 15:37 |
| Andy80 | so the "andy80" outside the scratchbox can write files inside the /home/andy80 of scratchbox? | 15:37 |
| kulve | Andy80: you can copy stuff to your home dir inside SB by copying to /scratchbox/users/<username>/home/<username>/foobar | 15:37 |
| mitcheloc | is it possible to use the ssh connection into dropbear to launch mplayer on the n800? | 15:38 |
| X-Fade | mitcheloc: Well that is not true:) But the picture is offset to the left on the screen.. | 15:38 |
| kulve | and you can edit it outside with your favourite editor using that dir too.. | 15:38 |
| Andy80 | kulve: perfect :) | 15:38 |
| mitcheloc | X-Fade: yep, thats a drawback :( | 15:38 |
| Andy80 | just a curiosity: which editor/ide do you use to develop maemo apps? | 15:38 |
| kulve | Andy80: I usually make a "sb-home" -link in my real home dir that points to that home in SB, so it's easier to access.. :) | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | And moving rapidly causes tearing effects.. | 15:39 |
| kulve | Andy80: emacs/vi | 15:39 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: yep | 15:39 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: su - user, run-standalone appname | 15:40 |
| kulve | (if you login as root..) | 15:40 |
| kulve | run-standalone.sh | 15:40 |
| mitcheloc | kulve: does that sh file run the app on the device? | 15:42 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: if you are logged in trhough ssh, sure it does | 15:42 |
| kulve | it just set's some env variables | 15:42 |
| kulve | -' | 15:42 |
| mitcheloc | only have to run it once? | 15:42 |
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| extreme | can someone help me | 15:43 |
| kulve | hmm.. I'm not actually sure what you did mean with your question..? | 15:43 |
| extreme | i'm looking for a somebody for talking | 15:44 |
| kulve | e.g. I usually compile an app, copy it to the device with scp, then login in with ssh, and run it with "run-standalone.sh app" | 15:44 |
| mitcheloc | kulve: i want to run mplayer on the n800 to play a file, but i want to start it through SSH | 15:44 |
| extreme | because i dont know english very well | 15:44 |
| extreme | and i want develop | 15:44 |
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| kulve | mitcheloc: just login through the ssh and run the mplaeyer..? | 15:45 |
| kulve | mplayer | 15:45 |
| mitcheloc | it's playing anything on the device when i do that | 15:45 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: you mean, "it's *not* playing" ..? | 15:46 |
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| mitcheloc | kulve: i tested another app to see if my mplayer command was the problem | 15:46 |
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| mitcheloc | gizmo started just fine when i started it from ssh | 15:47 |
| mitcheloc | essentially i'm following this webpage -- http://www.oliverbrown.me.uk/2007/01/22/streaming-video-to-the-nokia-770/ | 15:47 |
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| mitcheloc | i'm loving that i can ssh into the n8! this is sweet | 15:48 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: hmm.. It should work like that, but I haven't tested with mplayer myself.. | 15:48 |
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| mitcheloc | kulve: i think even if i get this working, streaming through video lan isn't all that convenient anyway | 15:49 |
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| maddler | Jaffa: looks like tonight I'll be in the right mood to make some tests! ;) | 15:51 |
| kulve | did anybody else test that mplayer test build? (http://ufo2000.xcomufo.com/maemo/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.n800.experimental_armel.deb) | 15:55 |
| mitcheloc | i did | 15:56 |
| sKaBoy | kulve, i've tried it and it seems to work fine! only the gui is quite slow to start.. | 15:56 |
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| kulve | I need to try it too then. I converted 007 & golden eye, but the "built-in" media player had some troubles with it.. | 15:57 |
| mitcheloc | it's crashing on my end | 16:00 |
| kulve | :/ | 16:00 |
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| bedboi | ok, so it seems that i won't receive the discount code... | 16:08 |
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| mitcheloc | damn, those nokia batteries are expeeeeensive -- $60 each! | 16:19 |
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| Molagi | hmm does anyone have troubles with the standard media player when playing music from the playilist, when i change a song when another one playing the whole media player freezes | 16:31 |
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| Andy80 | mitcheloc: mmm... I shouldn't say but... if you search on ebay you can find cheaper batteries ;) | 16:37 |
| mitcheloc | Andy80: thanks, good idea :) | 16:37 |
| Andy80 | usually their life is less than original batteries but you can find them for 5-10$ | 16:38 |
| Molagi | where can i get mplayer for os2007 | 16:39 |
| kulve | http://ufo2000.xcomufo.com/maemo/mplayer_1.0rc1-maemo.n800.experimental_armel.deb | 16:40 |
| kulve | that may work or may not | 16:40 |
| Molagi | ok | 16:40 |
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| mitcheloc | Molagi: i was just going to paste that, may not work too | 16:40 |
| Molagi | does it work on you? | 16:40 |
| Molagi | in your n800 | 16:40 |
| tzz | Molagi: it works on my N800 well for 770-encode.pl processed files. Doesn't scale large video well, so it's not optimized. | 16:41 |
| kulve | 15:56 < sKaBoy> kulve, i've tried it and it seems to work fine! only the gui is quite slow to start.. | 16:41 |
| kulve | 16:00 < mitcheloc> it's crashing on my end | 16:41 |
| jcml_ | Quick question: of those people who have both a 770 and n800, would you call the n800 a compelling upgrade, yet? | 16:42 |
| Molagi | ok | 16:42 |
| mitcheloc | i have the n800 | 16:42 |
| kulve | that thing doesn't have power to scale, so I think it doesn't really matter if it scales or not. Just sclae it yourself to a proper size before trying to view it | 16:43 |
| mitcheloc | it plays small files fine, i was trying with a 300 meg vid file | 16:43 |
| Jaffa | tzz: One of my first things this afternoon is to check/enhance the presets on the N800 for 770-encode | 16:43 |
| tzz | Jaffa: it works fine with the built-in player and with mplayer as it is. | 16:44 |
| tzz | I would have sent you a patch already otherwise :) | 16:44 |
| Jaffa | tzz: excellent, that may make the job very easy :) | 16:44 |
| Jaffa | tzz: so the mplayer preset still works well with ssvb's current mplayer on the 800? | 16:45 |
| tzz | the experimental build player them fine. I use .-p mplayer and -2 | 16:46 |
| tzz | s/player/plays/ | 16:46 |
| inz | I just uploaded nginx to maemo-hackers repositories | 16:46 |
| Molagi | hmm mplayer froze | 16:46 |
| inz | In case someone wants a http daemon | 16:46 |
| Molagi | how can i close it | 16:46 |
| Molagi | ;D | 16:46 |
| tzz | Molagi: Ctrl-Alt-Del | 16:47 |
| tzz | :) | 16:47 |
| Molagi | heh | 16:47 |
| tzz | the "back" button, then you wait a few seconds | 16:47 |
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| Molagi | ok | 16:48 |
| tzz | the experimental build freezes for a few seconds on quitting, at least for HTTP files | 16:48 |
| mitcheloc | Or use the home button, then click the mplayer icon and the X and wait for it to ask you tof orce the app closed | 16:48 |
| mitcheloc | is there any way to fix the date format? it's like dd/mm/yy, instead of mm/dd/yy | 16:49 |
| tzz | I will try -sws 0 next with large files, to see if the scaler is the reason they don't play well (these are NTSC video AVIs) | 16:49 |
| tzz | didn't have time for that last night... | 16:49 |
| tzz | mitcheloc: I think it's a locale function, you can't customize that individually (unfortunately, I much prefer YYYY-MM-DD) | 16:50 |
| mitcheloc | *sad* | 16:50 |
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| tzz | mitcheloc: submit a bug, maybe in 2-3 years they'll fix it. | 16:51 |
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| mitcheloc | tzz: 2-3 years! geese, by then i'd have become so familiar with dd/mm/yy that mm/dd/yy will look strange to me! | 16:52 |
| dwd | mitcheloc: Which is fair enough - it's the right way around. | 16:52 |
| Tak | maemorning | 16:52 |
| mitcheloc | yay, i updated my tablet firmware! | 16:53 |
| Tak | anybody try fceu-bora2 | 16:53 |
| Tak | ? | 16:53 |
| Andy80 | mitcheloc: here in Italy we use dd/MM/yyyy :) | 16:54 |
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| mitcheloc | it's an evil plan by nokia devs!!!! they wan't to convert us :( | 16:55 |
| Andy80 | oh... ppl, I wrote a very short review of my experience with n770, and I've published here: http://geekstribune.blogspot.com/2007/01/nokia-770-linux-nel-palmo-di-una-mano.html it's italian language. But, if someone of you keeps track of all reviews, well he can link this review too :) | 16:56 |
| mitcheloc | the firmware updater didn't say much about what was fixed...? | 16:56 |
| mitcheloc | (changelog) | 16:56 |
| kulve | mitcheloc: yeah, none of the device manufacturers seem to say much about the changelog | 16:57 |
| kulve | some major things at most.. | 16:57 |
| Tak | ChangeLog: Fixed - everything :-P | 16:58 |
| Andy80 | mitcheloc: wich firmware did you update? | 17:00 |
| Andy80 | mitcheloc: n770 or n800 ? | 17:00 |
| mitcheloc | Andy80: n800 | 17:00 |
| Andy80 | mitcheloc: ok. How is it possible to see the current firmware version on N770? | 17:01 |
| mitcheloc | i don't have a n770, but i imagine it's through the control panel -> about | 17:01 |
| kulve | Andy80: cat /etc/osso_software_version or something :) | 17:01 |
| Andy80 | I try :) | 17:01 |
| Jaffa | Where was mgedmin's page of handy .install files? | 17:02 |
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| Andy80 | kulve: it says: NOKIA770_2006SE_2.2006.39-14_PR_MR0 | 17:03 |
| Andy80 | is it the latest one? | 17:03 |
| kulve | I'm not sure about the 770 releases.. | 17:03 |
| mitcheloc | Andy80: go to the nokiaseries.com website, and look up your device under support | 17:04 |
| Tak | Andy80: yes | 17:04 |
| mitcheloc | there should be something there (assuming it's like the n800) | 17:04 |
| mitcheloc | i'm going to get an evdo wifi router for my car :) | 17:04 |
| mitcheloc | the n800 will go sweet along with that, then i can make voip calls from the road :) | 17:05 |
| Andy80 | mitcheloc: car? wel... but... where do you get connection from :) ??? | 17:06 |
| mitcheloc | an evdo card :) | 17:06 |
| Tak | bedboi: are you in the us? | 17:06 |
| mitcheloc | thats what i use for my connection at home, i haven't had a wired internet line for a while! | 17:07 |
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| Andy80 | mitcheloc: don't know what it is.... here in Italy our internet connection is got from the telephone line....(ADSL) | 17:07 |
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| mitcheloc | evdo works like a cell phone but for data instead, it's a pcmcia card that i drop in my laptop | 17:09 |
| mitcheloc | i get something like 150KBps download and 30KBps upload | 17:09 |
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| Andy80 | ahhh ok... we have a similar thing too. we can have it trough gprs or umts cards. but... the connection is expensive! You pay 0,6 cents every kilobyte :( | 17:10 |
| Tak | yeah, I would think an evdo plan for home use would be expensive | 17:11 |
| mitcheloc | well, i'm speciail, i get unlimited for $25/month, it's $60/month for everyone else :) | 17:11 |
| bedboi | Tak: in EU | 17:11 |
| bedboi | (italy) | 17:11 |
| Tak | ah | 17:11 |
| mitcheloc | so special that i can't spell special | 17:11 |
| Andy80 | bedboi: me, .it too ;) | 17:11 |
| Tak | keesj: ouch - "after trying bomberman I am positive this is not the way to go" | 17:12 |
| mitcheloc | check this out http://www.stompboxnetworks.com | 17:13 |
| keesj | Tak I was very existed about using the mouse trick for xmoto. | 17:13 |
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| keesj | and I was very disappointed with the wait it worked(sorry) | 17:14 |
| Tak | how did bomberman turn you off of that? (I haven't tried it yet) | 17:14 |
| keesj | the trick handle multiple inputs at once is something that might even be patented , if you understand what I mean | 17:15 |
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| keesj | "kliking" the screen just did not felt right. perhaps the doom aproach is better? | 17:15 |
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| glass | stompbox is pretty cool | 17:16 |
| Tak | did you try with thumbs? | 17:16 |
| glass | though, i would have just bought some used laptop | 17:16 |
| maddler | doh | 17:16 |
| mitcheloc | keesj: iPhone? | 17:16 |
| keesj | glass, what is that? | 17:16 |
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| keesj | mitcheloc, what about iphone? | 17:16 |
| glass | mitchelocs url few lines up | 17:17 |
| keesj | mitcheloc, but a phone is not like such a gaming device.I think the remote "joystick" part would be better suitable for playing game , and pretty cool | 17:18 |
| mitcheloc | keesj: i thought your multi-touch comment was referring to the iphone | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: where was that page of handy .install files you created? | 17:19 |
| Andy80 | keesj: cm'on! iphone! you know it... that closed box you cannot program in any way :) | 17:19 |
| mgedmin | Jaffa: http://mg.pov.lt/770/reflash.html | 17:19 |
| keesj | I don't need the 3d stuff (that will not be easy because the remote requires leds for absolute positioning) | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | mgedmin: thanks | 17:19 |
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| keesj | mitcheloc, not really no. I wanted to program the exact the same thing as on bomberman but for xmoto | 17:20 |
| Tak | keesj: did you try with thumbs? have you tried fceu? | 17:21 |
| hap | i think the bomberman is great | 17:22 |
| hap | looks like my old amiga version, i love it | 17:22 |
| keesj | I did not try fceu , | 17:22 |
| keesj | I will try bomberman again then ! | 17:22 |
| keesj | perhaps I am just to old for this stuff :p | 17:22 |
| Tak | asking because fceu uses onscreen buttons as well | 17:22 |
| keesj | is there a maemo bomberman server? | 17:23 |
| hap | there should be, online, so we play with others :] | 17:24 |
| mitcheloc | the chess game should be enabled! | 17:24 |
| keesj | hmm bomberman was no desinged to have multiple key presses after all | 17:25 |
| Andy80 | a little tip for Nokia engeneers: if N770/800 (home/reload) buttons were on the right side, the device could be used such a gameboy, nintendo ds ecc.... understand what I mean? | 17:25 |
| hap | keesj: there is a bug, my player goes left all the time | 17:25 |
| hap | have to press left again to stop him from going left | 17:25 |
| mitcheloc | hap: did you just wake up? | 17:26 |
| hap | mitcheloc: i did, was that reported ? :) | 17:26 |
| hap | sorry, can't read IRC _all the time_, have to work a little :) | 17:26 |
| keesj | yes that happens when i first hit left and then an other "key" | 17:26 |
| mitcheloc | Andy80: i don't think they read this channel, i had that same thought too before buying it, it's still good enough to overlook that | 17:26 |
| Tak | Andy80: that's what onscreen buttons are for | 17:26 |
| mitcheloc | hap: i'm still awake, sorry if i miss a thing or two | 17:26 |
| Andy80 | Tak: yes, I know... but touch screen is very very fragile....I'm not going to play on it ;) | 17:27 |
| Tak | I haven't had any problems | 17:27 |
| Tak | I play a *lot* of nintendo on my 770 | 17:27 |
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| mitcheloc | Tak: do you have a screen protector? | 17:29 |
| Tak | no | 17:29 |
| nelson | Screens have gotten a lot better in recent years. | 17:29 |
| keesj | Tak, what does is look like when you play? | 17:29 |
| nelson | I've also had good luck paying attention to how my stylus runs across the screen. | 17:30 |
| nelson | if I feel any resistance, I clean the screen and my stylus tip. | 17:30 |
| nelson | (clean == wipe off on my shirt) | 17:30 |
| Tak | keesj: about like http://flickr.com/photos/79742524@N00/310829948/ | 17:30 |
| Tak | although there are Save and Load buttons on the left now | 17:30 |
| keesj | and the other keys a on the "joy stik"? | 17:31 |
| Tak | yeah, it uses the d-pad for directional stuff | 17:31 |
| keesj | did you try it with the n800? | 17:31 |
| Tak | actually gpd was just helping me with n800 testing last night | 17:31 |
| keesj | screen rotate will be great for right handed people | 17:32 |
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| raph_ael | hello | 17:32 |
| Tak | I don't think fceu currently supports screen rotation the way xmame does | 17:32 |
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| * Jaffa boots his N800 for the first time. | 17:36 | |
| kkito | hello | 17:36 |
| kkito | do you know how to gain root pribvileges with nokia n800 ? | 17:36 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Show off. | 17:37 |
| Jaffa | kkito: Easiest way is "becomeroot" package on ApplicationCatalog2006 page. | 17:37 |
| kkito | and the hard way? | 17:37 |
| * Tak puts a curse on european n800 devs | 17:37 | |
| c0ffee | there are several levels of hardness | 17:37 |
| c0ffee | you can install becomeroot | 17:37 |
| c0ffee | you can install ssh | 17:38 |
| c0ffee | you can enable r&d mode and install xterm | 17:38 |
| kkito | i have xterm, and i want to do su or sudo like any other linux distribution | 17:38 |
| c0ffee | or you can patch the firmware image | 17:38 |
| c0ffee | see the maemowiki for all those ways | 17:38 |
| kkito | ok thnkyou i am going to read the wiki | 17:39 |
| Jaffa | New stylus is nice. Chunky but accurate. | 17:39 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: I wonder what was wrong with 'round' :) | 17:41 |
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| Jaffa | Sending files to/from Windows laptops is nice and easy. | 17:42 |
| keesj | I think I was a bit annoyed by Alivis his message. At least the gaming discussion is restarted after the Developer program marathon | 17:42 |
| Tak | hmm, which message? | 17:43 |
| maddler | Jaffa: how do you send them? | 17:44 |
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| maddler | mgedmin: working on your new vim package... :) | 17:44 |
| kkito | do you know when canola will be released for bora? | 17:46 |
| kkito | or if it will be released ever | 17:46 |
| Jaffa | maddler: To send from N800 to PC: Control Panel > Bluetooth > Devices and add laptop. It then shows up in file manager (770 had phone next to the "My Computer" equivalent. N800 has "Bluetooth devices" which expands to include phone and others (also "Network servers", but I've not investigated that yet). To send from PC -> N800 is right-click on file and say "Send to Bluetooth device" and select N800 from list. N800 asks where you'd like to save it, and if yo | 17:46 |
| mitcheloc | I say someone take the current firmware image and improve faster :) | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | maddler: cool! | 17:46 |
| maddler | oh... I'm using scp :D | 17:46 |
| maddler | you know... console geek... ;) | 17:47 |
| mitcheloc | Jaffa: scp is way easier over wifi | 17:47 |
| maddler | mitcheloc: it's easier over usb too! :D | 17:47 |
| Jaffa | mitcheloc: yes, agreed - but I'm pointing out things which the 770 couldn't (easily) do. | 17:48 |
| mgedmin | Jaffa: yay, btobex transfers are very cool | 17:48 |
| mitcheloc | maddler: nah, usb needs a cable =P | 17:48 |
| Jaffa | USB 2 is easiest. SCP over wifi is slow, difficult with adhoc network connections etc. | 17:48 |
| maddler | mitcheloc: yup... but I've no AP @ office... | 17:48 |
| maddler | :) | 17:48 |
| maddler | and you know... we don't like easy things... :D | 17:49 |
| mitcheloc | well honestly, i've not actually tried scp with the n800, but with other machines, if it's really slow then scratch that | 17:49 |
| maddler | mine works great... :) | 17:49 |
| |tbb| | jaffa, but without a bt device on your desktop no chance | 17:50 |
| mitcheloc | what was the password? rootme? | 17:50 |
| maddler | I'm also using fuse on my desktop to mount 770 filesystem over ssh :) | 17:50 |
| mitcheloc | crzy, i love how advanced everyone is here | 17:51 |
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| mitcheloc | but a part of me feels pain for those non-technical users out there, i feel they could benefit from a device like this (minus the crumy cam) | 17:51 |
| * Jaffa finds a flaw with the N800: I've just lost my stylus when answering the phone. | 17:54 | |
| mgedmin | that's why they put two styluses in the box :) | 17:54 |
| dwd | Jaffa: Check down the back of the sofa. | 17:54 |
| Tak | mitcheloc: once a lot of developers have their hands on the device, the non-technical users' pain will begin to diminish | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | Tak: you're very optimistic | 17:55 |
| Jaffa | Ah found it. I put it on top of my mobile, lying on its side. | 17:55 |
| Tak | yes - for example, my coffee cup is 0% full | 17:55 |
| mitcheloc | Tak: i say we just commandeer the Firmware and publish our own! | 17:55 |
| Tak | the firmware isn't the issue (mostly) | 17:55 |
| guru3 | is there an alternate window manager for maemo? | 17:56 |
| Tak | somebody got opie running on a 770 | 17:56 |
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| Jaffa | Coo, built-in Media Player plays `mplayer' preset 770-encoded videos. | 17:59 |
| tzz | Jaffa: I just enter everything with my nose and nails, the stylus never comes out. Reccommended! | 17:59 |
| mitcheloc | the n800 is sweet, i'm going to build an evdo/wifi router for my car :) | 18:00 |
| mitcheloc | i could for example install a wifi camera in the car, and use the n800 to view it! | 18:00 |
| * Tak makes a note to try playing bomberman with his nose | 18:00 | |
| guru3 | has the gameboy emulation improved since i last looked? | 18:01 |
| tzz | mitcheloc: you mean like a rear view camera? | 18:01 |
| maddler | hmmm... has anyone ever thought about a "always on when on ac-power" hack for display? | 18:01 |
| mitcheloc | tzz: yep, or anything i want | 18:01 |
| Tak | guru3: no | 18:02 |
| mitcheloc | i could have the camera upload pictures to my website if i wanted to | 18:02 |
| tzz | mitcheloc: well, looking at the inside of the glovebiox is definitely less exciting. | 18:02 |
| guru3 | so the sound still lags and you still can't press two buttons at once? | 18:02 |
| Tak | the two-button thing is a hardware limitation | 18:02 |
| Tak | the NES emulation is pretty good | 18:02 |
| tzz | in the USA at least, EVDO is expensive, I'd rather store the images+video on the SD card and upload them later. | 18:02 |
| guru3 | so i'll never beat supermario land :< | 18:03 |
| Tak | there are some buttons on the touchscreen to evade the two-button hack | 18:03 |
| guru3 | weren't when i last looked | 18:03 |
| Tak | guru3: I'm planning to add onscreen buttons for the gameboy emulation as well | 18:03 |
| guru3 | ah | 18:03 |
| tzz | does anyone find it annoying that the image viewer scrolls by 20 pixels or so, instead of a full screen? | 18:03 |
| mitcheloc | tzz: $25 a month for evdo isn't expensive | 18:03 |
| Tak | just a matter of time | 18:03 |
| tzz | it makes looking at comics full size annoying. | 18:04 |
| mitcheloc | or $60 at the most if you don't qualify | 18:04 |
| tzz | mitcheloc: plus the cell phone account, plus the router cost... | 18:04 |
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| tzz | mitcheloc: T-mobile are cheapest for service here in Boston, but they only have EDGE right now. | 18:05 |
| mitcheloc | tzz: you don't have to have a cell phone account? | 18:05 |
| keesj | I have a 3 euro 25 MB plain gprs deal | 18:05 |
| mitcheloc | i walked into the wirless store and out with a free EVDO Rev A card, and a 2 year contract for $60/month | 18:06 |
| tzz | mitcheloc: are you sure? That was the case when I checked last year with a kiosk. But they may have tried to upsell me... | 18:06 |
| mitcheloc | if you do some searching one of the wireless carriers has a developers plan, i switched to it and i'm on at $25/month | 18:06 |
| mitcheloc | it's a secret though, so don't tell anyone :) | 18:06 |
| tzz | OK thanks, that's good to know. | 18:06 |
| * Tak has Legend of Zelda flashback | 18:06 | |
| Molagi | hmm i got a little problem | 18:07 |
| Molagi | i locked the touch screen and keys, now it wont open | 18:07 |
| mitcheloc | mind you, i switched after i left the store, the guys there didn't have a clue about it, it's only on the website | 18:07 |
| Molagi | i press the I button and after that the square | 18:07 |
| Molagi | but nothing happens | 18:08 |
| mitcheloc | press the power button then the middle enter button | 18:08 |
| tzz | I just want wifi everywhere, enough of the EVDO/EDGE/etc etc etc hacks. WiMax is supposed to be the answer when it gets popular (if ever). | 18:08 |
| Molagi | im pressing it but nothing happens | 18:08 |
| mitcheloc | evdo is 90% as good as wifi? | 18:08 |
| Molagi | cant even reboot it | 18:09 |
| Tak | man | 18:09 |
| Molagi | should i just remove the battery? | 18:10 |
| tzz | mitcheloc: it's the compatibility that annoys me. Everyone has wifi on their laptops, N800s, and now Nokia cell phones (E61 I think). Why have so many other standards? | 18:10 |
| tzz | I know the answer too :) | 18:10 |
| Tak | when wimax becomes mainstream, I will buy an N1200 and throw away my phone | 18:10 |
| tzz | "money" | 18:10 |
| ||cw | because they solve different problems | 18:10 |
| tzz | the N800 is already getting close to be a phone replacement. I am eagerly waiting for the Skype client (unreleased yet, right?) | 18:11 |
| mitcheloc | ^^ what he said | 18:11 |
| ||cw | wifi is cheap, short range, unlicensed, easy to implement | 18:11 |
| guru3 | so there will be a skype client in the end? | 18:11 |
| mitcheloc | ahhh, i meant, ||cw, they solve different problems | 18:11 |
| Tak | it would be a phone replacement for me if I had universal net access | 18:11 |
| mitcheloc | a SIP client is way more useful then skype! | 18:11 |
| mitcheloc | Tak, Thats where the evdo wifi router comes in! | 18:11 |
| tzz | mitcheloc: we already have a SIP client (Gizmo N800 edition). | 18:11 |
| mitcheloc | you have a mobile wifi router in your car that get's the 'net from evdo! | 18:12 |
| Molagi | fucking hell what should i do | 18:12 |
| mitcheloc | everything else connects too it and routes through it | 18:12 |
| Molagi | ill just let the battery worn it out | 18:12 |
| Tak | hell, I probably can't even get evdo here | 18:12 |
| Molagi | after that i can acces | 18:12 |
| ||cw | oh, and wifi is hella fast. evdo is longer range, licensed, lower power but also lower speed (in practic, not theory) | 18:12 |
| Tak | besides, what about when I'm not in my car? | 18:12 |
| tzz | cw: OK, I don't mean 802.11b/g, I mean wifi networking , including WiMax. | 18:12 |
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| ||cw | wimax current only works well if you are standing still, fixed point | 18:13 |
| mitcheloc | if you aren't in your house, you might be near someones wifi right? | 18:13 |
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| mitcheloc | if thats also the case, you can use the bluetooth support and get an evdo enabled cell phone? | 18:13 |
| Tak | sure, but then I'm back to having a phone | 18:13 |
| mitcheloc | look at this -- Take | 18:13 |
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| mitcheloc | * http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/kr1-router/ | 18:14 |
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| tzz | cw: I hope there's a solution eventually. It's annoying, given our fast wi-fi networks, to have to essentially do dialup on the road. Maybe the wimax problems will be worked out, I don't know. | 18:14 |
| AaronL2 | tzz: sorry, I didn't have a chance to look at the code last night | 18:15 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: any luck with the developer code? | 18:15 |
| mitcheloc | that KR1 is how they do voip at burning man | 18:15 |
| Tak | nein | 18:15 |
| AaronL2 | me neither | 18:15 |
| mitcheloc | click the case studies link | 18:15 |
| Tak | now that I know you're confirmed to be down for one, I'm waiting to hear from you :-P | 18:15 |
| tzz | Aaron: no problem. I cc-ed all the others in case someone has the time, but don't expect you to babysit my code :) | 18:16 |
| AaronL2 | I was unofficially confirmed, we'll see | 18:16 |
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| Tak | heh, an email from a nokian is pretty official | 18:16 |
| Tak | particularly since the code will just be another email from a nokian | 18:16 |
| tzz | Aaron: I'm sure I | 18:18 |
| AaronL2 | yeah, I know, but it would be nice to just be done with this, know for certain one way or the other | 18:18 |
| philipl | Indeed. Too much suspense. :-) | 18:19 |
| tzz | am missing something obvious at this point, or maybe the other GTK code in Emacs is overriding the events I set up. | 18:19 |
| AaronL2 | tzz: hmm, I'm not sure, I haven't looked at the code yet | 18:19 |
| tzz | I wish I had a good debugger in Maemo, instead I'm using printf() everywhere. | 18:19 |
| AaronL2 | tzz: perhaps you can provide already patched versions of the necessary files | 18:20 |
| AaronL2 | instead of a patch | 18:20 |
| AaronL2 | tzz: use gdb | 18:20 |
| AaronL2 | tzz: on scratchbox | 18:20 |
| Tak | the gdb in the armel sdk is less than stellar | 18:20 |
| AaronL2 | I rarely debug using the armel gdb | 18:20 |
| AaronL2 | I use the PC SDK environment for debugging | 18:20 |
| Tak | I rarely touch the pc sdk | 18:21 |
| AaronL2 | well, I can understand that considering that you are developing xmame | 18:21 |
| AaronL2 | but, it works fine for my purposes in developing VNC viewer | 18:21 |
| * Tak nods | 18:21 | |
| AaronL2 | and it should be sufficient for emacs as well, I would think | 18:21 |
| tzz | Aaron: I use gdb, I wish I had a good debugging environment I should say. | 18:22 |
| AaronL2 | ah, well, I've been using gdb for many years | 18:22 |
| Tak | ddd is a nice frontend to gdb | 18:23 |
| AaronL2 | so, I'm used to it, there is a good GUI wrapper for gdb called ddd, but it could be hard to get it working in scratchbox | 18:23 |
| AaronL2 | heh, beat me to it | 18:23 |
| Tak | well, to [gxj]db | 18:23 |
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| tzz | Aaron: why bother everyone with 200K+ of patched code when the patches are small and against the Emacs CVS? Do you think it would make things easier? I'd have to include a bunch of .h and .c files anyhow, for the frame struct for instance, so it's a lot of code. | 18:23 |
| AaronL2 | tzz: well, I don't know, but it would make it more convenient to examine it, did you have detailed instructions for which files to get? or do I need to check everything out from CVS? | 18:24 |
| tzz | yeah, I would like to use DDD or something like it. Actually I'd like to use Perl or Python. Much easier to debug those :) | 18:24 |
| Tak | meh | 18:25 |
| tzz | Aaron: it's a good idea to check out everything, since gtkutil.c depends on a lot of other code under src. Then do "configure --with-gtk; make" | 18:25 |
| AaronL2 | tzz: well, I mean, there is probably a minimal amount of code that has to be examined, for the purposes of reviewing it | 18:26 |
| tzz | apply the patch, and add the hildon libs to the Makefile flags under src. That's it. | 18:26 |
| AaronL2 | that's what I meant by sending a few files that are already patched | 18:26 |
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| AaronL2 | theoretically, I should be able to figure it out without building it | 18:26 |
| AaronL2 | I don't need the tons of include files and dependencies for this purpose | 18:27 |
| tzz | Aaron: gtkutil.c, xterm.c. I patched xterm.c just a little bit in my new patch, to initialize the HILDON_PROGRAM around gtk_init. | 18:28 |
| AaronL2 | maybe you could send those files? | 18:28 |
| AaronL2 | you can just send them to me if you want, but if it can be determined by inspection, then it would save me some time | 18:28 |
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| greentux | is there a maemo 2.1 image ready to flash available? | 18:32 |
| Tak | greentux: http://www.maemo.org/downloads/nokia_770 | 18:34 |
| tzz | Aaron: http://lifelogs.com/xterm.c and http://lifelogs.com/gtkutil.c | 18:34 |
| greentux | Tak: ok, but is that not the same image i have on the "just arrived" 770? | 18:34 |
| Tak | there should be something in the control panel that tells you what version of the firmware you have | 18:35 |
| Tak | mine still had os2005 when I bought it (in 9/2006) | 18:35 |
| greentux | os 2006 2.2006.39-14 here | 18:36 |
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| greentux | I thought there are some kinds of images... not only the official nokia version. some with more apps or so. | 18:36 |
| Tak | well, you can get more apps without reflashing | 18:37 |
| Tak | there are developer images, but they're not really suitable for day-to-day use | 18:37 |
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| greentux | ok, so "hotobecomeroot" howto and the apps pages are my friends, right? | 18:39 |
| greentux | for instance installing openvpn... | 18:40 |
| Tak | yeah | 18:40 |
| Tak | in particular the garage, garage extras, and maemo-hackers repositories are your friends ;-) | 18:40 |
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| greentux | Tak: thanks | 18:42 |
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| ferenc | lo | 18:44 |
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| greentux | Tak: can I see the assigned wlan adress on the maemo? (I have no root atm) | 18:54 |
| Tak | yeah, it's available in the control panel | 18:54 |
| greentux | really? | 18:55 |
| Tak | Device, About Product I think | 18:55 |
| Tak | wait, do you mean the IP address, or the MAC address? | 18:55 |
| greentux | only mac adresses | 18:55 |
| greentux | I want the ip to ssh to she device... | 18:55 |
| Tak | ah | 18:55 |
| tzz | xterm, then "ifconfig -a" | 18:55 |
| Tak | if you have xterm installed, you can do `ifconfig` | 18:55 |
| Tak | alternatively, there's http://www.whatismyip.org/ | 18:56 |
| greentux | ifconfig not found. i assume /sbin/ifconfig ... mom | 18:56 |
| exocet | hi | 18:56 |
| tzz | Tak: not behind NAT :) | 18:56 |
| exocet | You need to be root | 18:56 |
| greentux | ok | 18:56 |
| Tak | good point | 18:56 |
| greentux | fine | 18:56 |
| exocet | sudo gainroot | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | you can see your IP from the user interface | 18:56 |
| exocet | then rootme for password | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | somewhere in the connection manager | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | there's a menu item for that | 18:57 |
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| Tak | ah, I didn't know that @ mgedmin | 18:57 |
| exocet | Really ? | 18:57 |
| greentux | I am in. ok | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | of course, Real Men modify their dhcp servers to allocate a fixed IP and their DNS servers to give a name | 18:57 |
| mgedmin | I wish zeroconf worked out of the box... | 18:58 |
| greentux | my connection manager hasnt something, but yterm was fine | 18:58 |
| exocet | You can only see MAC adress in control panem | 18:58 |
| Tak | mgedmin: yeah, I did that with mine ;-) | 18:58 |
| exocet | You have to disconnect and to have a fixed IP (not DHCP) to be able to see it in connection manager ;) | 18:58 |
| * Tak ssh user@nokia | 18:59 | |
| mgedmin | Task Navigator -> Tools -> Connection Manager -> Menu -> Internet connection -> IP address | 19:00 |
| exocet | Task navigator ? | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | the third big button on the left | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | the applications menu | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | whatever it's called | 19:01 |
| exocet | OK thanks for the tip | 19:01 |
| greentux | mgedmin: you are right... ok. :) | 19:01 |
| Molagi | lol still cant get that touch screen lock open | 19:02 |
| Molagi | ill never lock it again | 19:02 |
| Molagi | cant even reboot it | 19:03 |
| Tak | could pull the battery if you get desperate | 19:03 |
| Molagi | heh | 19:03 |
| Molagi | is there a possibility it will break | 19:03 |
| Molagi | if i pull it | 19:03 |
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| exocet | only if you have no luck | 19:04 |
| Molagi | damn | 19:05 |
| exocet | I did it several times already, it worked again | 19:05 |
| Molagi | how did you pull it | 19:05 |
| Tak | hmm - would there an advantage to using yuv vs rgb for an sdl game? | 19:05 |
| Molagi | i tried | 19:06 |
| Molagi | it wont come out | 19:06 |
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| Molagi | lol i broke my nail | 19:07 |
| exocet | pull from the right side | 19:07 |
| Tak | damn man | 19:07 |
| exocet | yes its a bit hard | 19:07 |
| exocet | where it's written nokia | 19:07 |
| Tak | at this point I'd be considering calling today a do-over and going to bed :-P | 19:07 |
| Molagi | oh i got it | 19:07 |
| Molagi | tried pulling it from the left | 19:07 |
| Molagi | works now | 19:07 |
| Molagi | gotta hope the square button work | 19:08 |
| Molagi | s | 19:08 |
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| tzz | square button? | 19:08 |
| tzz | you mean the SD card retainer? | 19:09 |
| Molagi | hmm the one you push if you want full screen keyboard | 19:09 |
| tzz | that's the "full screen" key | 19:09 |
| Molagi | the finger keyboard key | 19:09 |
| tzz | You are confusing me. | 19:10 |
| tzz | There's no finger keyboard key. | 19:10 |
| Molagi | the key which is rounded by the led things | 19:10 |
| Molagi | blue led light | 19:10 |
| tzz | Do you mean the D pad center button? | 19:10 |
| Molagi | ;D | 19:10 |
| jcml_ | There's a configuration setting to make the centre-of-the-d-pad key a "bring up full screen keyb". | 19:10 |
| Molagi | yeah the center button | 19:10 |
| jcml_ | that's from a 770 perspective, tho. | 19:11 |
| jcml_ | Not got my 800 yet ... | 19:11 |
| tzz | I see. First time I hear it called that. Anyhow. | 19:11 |
| Molagi | heh | 19:11 |
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| tzz | If you pull the battery, the system needs to be restarted, it's off now (if you don't see the screen on). | 19:12 |
| tzz | Push the power button. | 19:12 |
| extreme | hello everbody | 19:12 |
| Molagi | yeah i got it working | 19:12 |
| Molagi | thx | 19:12 |
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| tzz | Maybe you have a bad D pad or at least the center button is bad. | 19:13 |
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| Molagi | yeah | 19:14 |
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| * bergie finally got the N800 :-) | 19:16 | |
| nomis | mine seems to be stuck in Duisburg. | 19:17 |
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| jcml_ | Anyone know if UPS /try/ to deliver on a saturday? | 19:19 |
| * Jaffa is liking his. Everything feels that much snappier. | 19:19 | |
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| Tak | jcml_: I think you have to request for them to do so | 19:20 |
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| jcml_ | cool. I'm getting it delivered to work, so /don't/ want it to sit in the security office all weekend ... :-) | 19:22 |
| maddler | Jaffa: time to head to home for me! ;) | 19:23 |
| maddler | later folks! | 19:24 |
| Tak | might be different for business deliveries | 19:24 |
| exocet | Did anyone try USB host ? | 19:25 |
| exocet | I've recompiled my kernel with USB host support but I don't have the needed hardware (external supply and cables) | 19:25 |
| bedboi | yep! i got the code ! | 19:25 |
| Jaffa | exocet: me neither, I'm afraid. | 19:26 |
| Tak | congrats bedboi | 19:26 |
| Jaffa | bedboi: yay! | 19:26 |
| bedboi | thanks a lot! | 19:26 |
| Jaffa | exocet: put your kernel online and post a link on ITT forums - someone's bound to try it (e.g. Thoughtfix) | 19:26 |
| exocet | I've already sent it to thoughtfix ;) | 19:26 |
| Jaffa | exocet: ah, excellent :) | 19:26 |
| exocet | but if anyone else want to try... | 19:27 |
| bedboi | i'm going to use the code right now | 19:27 |
| exocet | But I had to modify a source file, there was an error. | 19:28 |
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| exocet | But since I'm beginning in C programming I don't know if that will work, I'm not a kernel hacker | 19:29 |
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| Andy80 | where can I find a document that explain how to configure gpsd? | 19:34 |
| keesj | Jipie my firstn800 crash! | 19:35 |
| keesj | fast reboot that was | 19:35 |
| wumpus | well what I read is that N800 hasn't got the necessary wiring to support usb host | 19:38 |
| wumpus | so even if you got it into usb host mode it'd probably not work | 19:38 |
| exocet | I only saw that for OTG but not host support ? | 19:39 |
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| wumpus | yeah that was that discussion | 19:39 |
| wumpus | thought they meant host too that was the reason they removed it from the kernel | 19:40 |
| exocet | When I recompiled the kernel I had the choice "slave", "Host" or "OTG" | 19:40 |
| exocet | OK I understand | 19:40 |
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| exocet | If, as the N770, you just need external power supply it won't be a problem. | 19:40 |
| exocet | I hope that is the case | 19:41 |
| Andy80 | please I need your help :( I've just upgraded gpsd on my n770 and now the screen is black and the device doesn't power on anymore :( how can I fix it?! :( | 19:42 |
| exocet | Wow bad news for you I think | 19:43 |
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| Andy80 | I try removing battery | 19:43 |
| exocet | Did you try to remove the battery and test again ? | 19:43 |
| Andy80 | I try now | 19:43 |
| exocet | lol ok | 19:43 |
| wumpus | does it still show the boot logo? if so, you can reflash the device | 19:43 |
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| Andy80 | just 2 seconds... wait.. | 19:44 |
| Andy80 | yesh! It's starting now! | 19:44 |
| exocet | cool | 19:44 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: it _finally_ arrived | 19:44 |
| * Tak waits pseudo-patiently | 19:45 | |
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| zuh | keesj: you'll see more reguralry if you leave it sitting idle while connected to wlan (or at least that seems to be a common situation) | 19:45 |
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| konfoo | i had a very strange wsod issue today | 19:48 |
| konfoo | reflashed the n800.. no go | 19:48 |
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| konfoo | finally swapped the 770's battery with the n800.. and it booted up | 19:48 |
| konfoo | then i used the wall power to charge the 770 and it booted up | 19:48 |
| konfoo | ?!! | 19:48 |
| Andy80 | why if i ssh into 770 and try to edit a file with vim it doesn't recognize the "Ins" mode? | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | Andy80: do you mean the Ins key? | 19:50 |
| mgedmin | :set nocp perhaps? | 19:50 |
| Andy80 | mgedmin: yes. When I edit something in my linux os, using vim, if I press "Ins" key I can edit the text, delete ecc... | 19:51 |
| exocet | use "i" ;) | 19:51 |
| exocet | or "a" to append | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | <Insert> works for me | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | but then I have a .vimrc that disables cp, and I've compiled the vim myself with all sorts of features enabled | 19:52 |
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| Andy80 | exocet: I think we are confusing vi with vim.... the keys are different... if you use vim under linux and you press the "Ins" key, you can edit the text like a usual text editor, like midnight commander for example. If I press "i" in vi and try to edito or cancel something I get BBBB CC on a row | 19:54 |
| tzz | Andy80: Insert is not a standard key in a terminal (Unix legacy). It may or may not work depending on a lot of factors. | 19:54 |
| Andy80 | tzz: ok... but the behaviuor of the application is different | 19:54 |
| tzz | Andy80: ditto for a lot of other keys like PageUp/Down, Home, End... | 19:54 |
| ferenc | (fyi: dev device program: Europe 2nd wave and US codes were sent out a few minutes ago) | 19:55 |
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| Andy80 | with vim under linux I can use arrows, Del, and write the text I want, in the position I want | 19:55 |
| tzz | Andy80: you need gvim if you are not comfortable with vim's basic commands (o,i,a, etc.) | 19:55 |
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| tzz | Note the N800 runs Linux. | 19:55 |
| Andy80 | tzz: is it available for 770? | 19:55 |
| tzz | You mean "Ubuntu/Debian/etc" | 19:55 |
| tzz | Andy80: not AFAIK, and I'm not the one to port it :) | 19:56 |
| Andy80 | tzz: I'm connected via ssh to the n770 and I've to edit a file inside it | 19:56 |
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| tzz | Andy80: You are running vim remotely over SSH on the N800? The terminal translation is not working. What does $TERM say when you SSH into the N800? | 19:58 |
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| tzz | Note the terminfo database may be very limited on the N800, I don't know what it has internally. | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | Andy80: have you tried my suggestion? (i.e. :set nocp) | 19:59 |
| Andy80 | mgedmin: no sorry, I didn't notice it | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | vim on my 770 recognizes all the cursor keys when I ssh into it | 19:59 |
| Tak | ditto | 19:59 |
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| Tak | AaronL2: me too! :-D | 20:00 |
| Andy80 | tzz: I'm connected from my debian machine to my n770, via ssh | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | the builtin busybox vi is mostly unusable (doesn't redraw the text correctly) | 20:00 |
| tzz | so type "echo $TERM" | 20:00 |
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| *** Tak changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | EU and US discount codes are out, for 2nd wave apply to quim.gil@maemo.org | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/" | 20:01 | |
| tzz | Andy80: are you sure you're using vim and not vi, also? | 20:01 |
| Andy80 | tzz: yes | 20:01 |
| Andy80 | done! | 20:02 |
| Andy80 | (using the o,i,d style...) | 20:02 |
| exocet | i:q! | 20:03 |
| exocet | oops sorry | 20:03 |
| tzz | I can't even imagine using vi with Ins/Del/Home/End/etc keys | 20:03 |
| exocet | My SSH is very very slow | 20:03 |
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| exocet | Did anyone have some problems with ssh on n800 ? | 20:04 |
| gpd | Tak: can I expect your new version in extras soon? | 20:04 |
| tzz | I think in terms of "oTEXT, ESCGoMORE TEXT, etc." | 20:04 |
| Tak | lol | 20:04 |
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| Tak | gpd: updated fceu is in extras now | 20:04 |
| Tak | your fixes and no debugging output ;-) | 20:04 |
| Tak | plus save/load should be fixed | 20:05 |
| gpd | Tak: sweet . will check now | 20:05 |
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| maddler | damn! my wife played me a joke!!! she hidden my N800!!! | 20:06 |
| Jaffa | That's just mean! | 20:07 |
| maddler | damn!!! | 20:07 |
| Tak | maddler: it's cheaper to buy another n800 than to file divorce papers ;-) | 20:07 |
| maddler | I've been looking *everywhere* | 20:07 |
| exocet | SSH to it and make it play some sound :D | 20:07 |
| gpd | maddler: is it online? ssh in and make some noise | 20:07 |
| maddler | Tak: well... killing her could be even cheaper... :D | 20:07 |
| exocet | lol | 20:07 |
| Tak | I dunno, good disposal can be expensive | 20:07 |
| maddler | gpd... it was just delivered by the UPS dude... | 20:08 |
| Jaffa | Messy clean up, too | 20:08 |
| gpd | Jaffa: what info are you after from my MUB bathing? | 20:08 |
| gpd | s/MUB/MUD/! | 20:08 |
| Jaffa | :) | 20:09 |
| Jaffa | gpd: problems you found, solutions, unanswered questions, where I should focus the documentation next, any features which'd make it easier/more reliable/faster etc. | 20:09 |
| * Jaffa *loves* the new built-in stand. | 20:10 | |
| inz | Did anyone try nginx? | 20:10 |
| gpd | Jaffa: ok - i'll put something together for you. | 20:10 |
| maddler | oh... jaffa... does MUD creates the "debian" stuff by it's own? | 20:10 |
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| gpd | inz: no - but looks interesting - I wonder if it does fast-cgi php | 20:10 |
| Jaffa | maddler: yep - for autoconf stuff it should be right straight out of the gate, for Makefile-based stuff it *might* be right (depending on the structure of the makefile), otherwise you'll need to patch debian/rules | 20:11 |
| keesj | maddler, yes, almost | 20:11 |
| tzz | m*****f****r | 20:11 |
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| Fatal | you rang? | 20:12 |
| Tak | malefactor? | 20:12 |
| tzz | sorry I had to vent | 20:12 |
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| tzz | the RSS reader is rebooting the N800, I'm sure of it | 20:12 |
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| tzz | if I leave it overnight, it reboots if the RSS reader is running, but not otherwise | 20:12 |
| c0ffee | now we know what r in rss stands for... reboot | 20:12 |
| konfoo | tzz: same problem here | 20:12 |
| Tak | doesn't opera have a builtin rss reader? | 20:13 |
| Tak | at least on pc? | 20:13 |
| maddler | ok... | 20:13 |
| tzz | the RSS reader is nice and I like it, unfortunately. Google reader doesn't work well, and I haven't tried Opera (but I don't think it works IIRC) | 20:13 |
| keesj | tzz, the first thing I removed was the rss reader applet | 20:13 |
| * Tak nods | 20:14 | |
| * Jaffa shoudl really test the video calling - but you lot could all be scary (or worse... fugly ;-)) | 20:14 | |
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| keesj | I have an open network (no security) | 20:14 |
| * Jaffa doesn't want his nice shiny new screen broken | 20:14 | |
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| tzz | Jaffa: what, you're the flower of Provence? | 20:14 |
| tzz | the rose of Morocco? :) | 20:14 |
| Tak | they'd put my picture next to "fugly" in the dictionary, except that there are laws against that sort of thing | 20:14 |
| Jaffa | tzz: perhaps not. | 20:14 |
| inz | gpd, I've gotta resist doing it _now_, I've gotta clean up the house, my SO's been gone for the week, and she'd flip off, if I didn't clean ;) | 20:15 |
| gpd | inz: I hear you! I need to stop playing Bubble Bobble! | 20:16 |
| gpd | Tak: working well -- save and load too. Great job. | 20:16 |
| Tak | sweet | 20:16 |
| Tak | how's the speed? | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | it runs on the tablet? | 20:16 |
| gpd | not too bad - playable enough - I am on level 4 | 20:17 |
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| inz | gpd, I'll try to take a look at it next week -- if I remember ;) | 20:17 |
| Tak | you can adjust the frameskip settings if necessary | 20:17 |
| Tak | how's the sound? | 20:17 |
| inz | gpd, if you're really interested in it, prod me on monday ;) | 20:17 |
| gpd | inz: i proted lighttpd to tablet in tar.gz form - and it worked well with dokuwiki | 20:17 |
| inz | gpd, ah, cool | 20:18 |
| gpd | inz: yeah - i'll give you a shout if i get there before you. I am in discussion with one of the lead devs from drupal (chx) who want to use the N800 as the 'smallest dev platform' :) | 20:18 |
| inz | gpd, some website claimed that lighttpd leaked memory | 20:18 |
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| tzz | so is anyone selling their N800 code? Just curious... | 20:18 |
| gpd | i know people that swear by lighttpd on their virtual server - myself i stick to apache2 - but this is a different thing! | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | hm, the load applet is polling /proc/stat, /proc/meminfo and /proc/swaps once a second... would it be possible to use inotify on files in /proc and only update when something changes? | 20:19 |
| inz | gpd, I've concidered changing away from apache2 on my virtual server (the one that runs maemo-hackers.org), but it's too much hassle | 20:20 |
| gpd | inz: agreed - and if you tune apache2 it ends up with a pretty low memory footprint | 20:20 |
| inz | gpd, and they just a while ago doubled the memory on the server | 20:20 |
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| gpd | inz: linode? | 20:20 |
| c0ffee | hum | 20:21 |
| inz | gpd, tenue | 20:21 |
| c0ffee | new discount codes on m-l seen | 20:21 |
| c0ffee | mgedmin, no | 20:21 |
| c0ffee | mgedmin, such applets are pretty good at draining the battery btw :) | 20:21 |
| k-s | excellent: "This Nokia N800 discount code is for you" :-) | 20:22 |
| gpd | inz: http://linode.com/ - not finding yours | 20:22 |
| c0ffee | k-s are you from US, or 2nd wave? | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | c0ffee: at least strace shows that the applet sleeps totally when the cover is on | 20:22 |
| k-s | c0ffee: I'm from Brazil! | 20:22 |
| Andy80 | ok... help :) has anyone of you successfully connected kismet to gpsd? | 20:22 |
| k-s | c0ffee: I've some friends in finland, they'll bring mine | 20:23 |
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| maddler | IT'S IN MY HANDS!!! | 20:24 |
| Jaffa | yay | 20:24 |
| c0ffee | mine bops around in northern germany :/ | 20:24 |
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| tzz | maddler: if you were a urologist I'd be worried. | 20:24 |
| c0ffee | lets hope it makes it down here tommorow | 20:24 |
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| inz | gpd, mine is from http://tenue.fi/ (finnish only), I pay 36 eur/month, 256M, 15GB, unlimited transfer | 20:25 |
| tzz | maddler: forgive your wife and enjoy the N800 :) | 20:25 |
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| maddler | tzz: forgive who? ;) | 20:29 |
| maddler | wow... screen is a lot better than 770 | 20:31 |
| Tak | better in what way? | 20:31 |
| * Tak waits for netrejoin | 20:31 | |
| maddler | brighter... | 20:32 |
| Tak | seriously? I could flag down planes with the 770... | 20:32 |
| maddler | and better definition I'd say... | 20:32 |
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| maddler | and feedback while tapping is more "pleasant" | 20:33 |
| pbrook | Hi, I just got one of the developer N800 discount codes, and it doesn't seem to work. Is this the right place to ask about that? | 20:34 |
| AaronL2 | it worked for me | 20:34 |
| maddler | pbrook: yes and no... | 20:34 |
| AaronL2 | it works after you go to the next page | 20:34 |
| tzz | let me try it, pbrook ;) | 20:34 |
| AaronL2 | I went to the US store | 20:34 |
| nomis | from what I've seen, the screen has less visible noise in its layers. | 20:34 |
| maddler | pbrook: are you trying to use it on a "non US" shop? | 20:34 |
| pbrook | Yes, I am. | 20:35 |
| konfoo | i got my discount code :D | 20:35 |
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| maddler | but if you just received that I'd say it is an US invitation... | 20:35 |
| Tak | mgedmin: fceu + xmaeme from extras for bubble bobble, btw | 20:36 |
| pbrook | It says "To [...] buy the device, go to http://www.nseries.com/n800/ and http://europe.nokia.com/phones/n800" and quites the price in EUR. | 20:36 |
| Tak | the nseries site links to the us store | 20:37 |
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| nomis | pbrook: are you based in the US? | 20:37 |
| Tak | http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/addtocart/1,,phonecode:N800,00.html?CMP=BAC-N800USA | 20:37 |
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| pbrook | I'm in the UK. I followed the second link. | 20:37 |
| AaronL2 | I went to nseries.com/n800, there is a way to buy from there | 20:37 |
| AaronL2 | total price came to $125 US | 20:37 |
| pbrook | AaronL2: And get it shipped outside the US? | 20:38 |
| AaronL2 | well, I don't know abouut that | 20:38 |
| nomis | pbrook: maybe you should contact the maemo team. | 20:38 |
| AaronL2 | you probably need to go to the European site | 20:38 |
| Tak | yeah, I would email quim and see what the deal is | 20:38 |
| nomis | pbrook: they probably sent you an US-code by accident. | 20:38 |
| nnod | how do they decide whether you're us-based or eu-based? | 20:38 |
| pbrook | Ok, thanks. Will send email. | 20:38 |
| nomis | nnod: dunno, they got it right for me, but then I applied with my address for the first developers program. | 20:39 |
| AaronL2 | maybe based on the time you write to the maemo-developers e-mail list :-) | 20:39 |
| nomis | ... but then, I applied... | 20:39 |
| hub | thanks to the maemo team | 20:39 |
| hub | now I have to figure out how to order it | 20:39 |
| hub | pbrook: I have also the problem | 20:40 |
| konfoo | this is fantastic :) | 20:40 |
| nnod | i got a code too, but i haven't tried to order yet...i'm in suisse with a canadian credit card...i expect it to be problematic | 20:40 |
| hub | pbrook: I'm not in the US | 20:40 |
| hub | nnod: I'm in canada, with canadian cc, and it might be the same | 20:40 |
| hub | nnod: try the european store | 20:40 |
| Tak | I was wondering how they determined locality as well | 20:41 |
| AaronL2 | there was a problem with my credit card | 20:41 |
| AaronL2 | need to call some number | 20:41 |
| AaronL2 | what a pain | 20:41 |
| Tak | although I'm sure I mentioned mine in-channel, if they linked my irc nick to my email/garage | 20:41 |
| Tak | AaronL2: there were a lot of reports of that with the eu devs too | 20:42 |
| konfoo | total discount: $274 | 20:42 |
| konfoo | .99 | 20:42 |
| konfoo | can't forget the .99! | 20:42 |
| Tak | vital | 20:43 |
| konfoo | ugh i got taxed on the 399 :( | 20:43 |
| AaronL2 | no sales tax in Oregon :-) | 20:43 |
| * konfoo shakes fist | 20:44 | |
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| AaronL2 | just talked to Nokia store person | 20:47 |
| AaronL2 | the code is apparently not going through now | 20:47 |
| hub | ahah, the nseries website is not accessible | 20:47 |
| AaronL2 | maybe it went through for some of you | 20:47 |
| hub | requires some proprietary crap | 20:47 |
| AaronL2 | anyway, someone else has called too | 20:47 |
| AaronL2 | they need to figure out what is going on | 20:47 |
| AaronL2 | has anyone's US order gone through successfully? | 20:48 |
| AaronL2 | Tak? | 20:48 |
| Tak | it'll be a few days before I can order mine | 20:48 |
| AaronL2 | ah, well, the problems should be cleared by then | 20:48 |
| Tak | I need to finish getting my car unsmashed first | 20:48 |
| Tak | make sure I don't get screwed over | 20:49 |
| maddler | N800 feels more solid... | 20:49 |
| maddler | :) | 20:49 |
| * maddler is in love! | 20:49 | |
| konfoo | great | 20:49 |
| konfoo | the online order didnt take my cc.. so i call nokia and now they tell me the code is invalid | 20:50 |
| maddler | konfoo: did you alread got you order number? | 20:50 |
| AaronL2 | konfoo: I might have spoken to someone else | 20:50 |
| Tak | wow | 20:51 |
| AaronL2 | they need to figure out what the problem is with the code | 20:51 |
| AaronL2 | the person I spoke to said he would get back to me by the end of the day | 20:51 |
| AaronL2 | they don't know about the code yet | 20:51 |
| AaronL2 | that's all | 20:51 |
| AaronL2 | there might have been some miscommunication with the US site | 20:51 |
| AaronL2 | I responded to the e-mail on maemo-develoeprs | 20:52 |
| Tak | I thought the delay was specifically FOR communication with the US site ;-) | 20:52 |
| ssvb | Tak: maybe they took timezone info from e-mail messages, also garage account allows to specify your country | 20:52 |
| Tak | ah, could be | 20:52 |
| Tak | I don't think I specified on garage, though | 20:52 |
| konfoo | yeah they have no clue | 20:52 |
| hub | I guess if the address form is the same for ordering and contacting, it ain't gonna work | 20:52 |
| konfoo | its not the cc its the code thats the error | 20:52 |
| hub | for have 6 letter/digit post code here | 20:52 |
| AaronL2 | no order number, the order went through | 20:52 |
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| AaronL2 | I mean | 20:52 |
| AaronL2 | the order didn't go through | 20:52 |
| konfoo | aaron also | 20:52 |
| konfoo | heh | 20:53 |
| AaronL2 | Someone named Garrett had already called in | 20:53 |
| konfoo | 'we are trying to resolve this with nokia corporate' | 20:53 |
| AaronL2 | we'll see if I actually have a N800 in my hand by next week :-) | 20:54 |
| AaronL2 | after all this build-up, I hope I'm not disappointed :-) | 20:54 |
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| minra | im bummed the hardware changed so much.. couldn't they have just put in more ram and a faster cpu? | 20:55 |
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| Tak | minra: what part of the hardware change bums you? | 20:55 |
| minra | that it changed so much that n800 environment is not backward compatible | 20:59 |
| minra | its a new computer essentially | 21:00 |
| minra | three months time and this channel is not going to be doing anything around the 770 | 21:01 |
| Tak | I'm not going to stop working on the 770 | 21:01 |
| minra | cool | 21:01 |
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| c0ffee | also, it's new licenses | 21:01 |
| guerby | AaronL2, hi, so you got the code, but there's a problem with the US site? | 21:04 |
| bmidgley | argh the case isn't available at the us store | 21:04 |
| bmidgley | plus I've tried two cards, both rejected | 21:04 |
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| pbrook | bmidgley: http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/007499.html | 21:05 |
| waite | My discount code seems to take online. Maybe it is just the phones that are problematic | 21:06 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: yes :-) | 21:06 |
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| guerby | AaronL2, hope you solve that :) | 21:06 |
| bmidgley | aargh | 21:06 |
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| AaronL2 | guerby: what are you going to do with your code now? :-) | 21:07 |
| bmidgley | i guess $125 is the approximation of 99euro | 21:07 |
| roope | http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/vanhakar/nyt_toiveuusinta.png | 21:07 |
| guerby | AaronL2, Frantisek suggested a mplayer/amemo hacker who didn't get a code in the first round | 21:07 |
| Tak | 99 eur is currenly $128 | 21:08 |
| Tak | hooray $3 !!! | 21:08 |
| bmidgley | :) | 21:08 |
| Tak | roope: what's the heading say? | 21:08 |
| guerby | AaronL2, about vncviewer feature, when using firefox through vncviewer, I wasn't able to middle or right click on a link (because you first need to move the cursor over, and the only way is by tapping which does left click) | 21:09 |
| guerby | AaronL2, I'd suggest adding a "middle" and a "right" modifier in the spirit of Shift/Ctrl/Alt that adjusts the next tap | 21:09 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: Detlef is making some changes that will alter the behavior of the + and - button | 21:09 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: it will now act as a modifier key, the modifier will be configurable | 21:10 |
| guerby | AaronL2, whatever that works without user stress :) | 21:10 |
| AaronL2 | already in the works :-) | 21:10 |
| AaronL2 | well, you could also click the link | 21:10 |
| AaronL2 | then use a keyboard command to go back | 21:10 |
| AaronL2 | or, you could have the mouse cursor already in the right spot | 21:10 |
| AaronL2 | before going to the web page :-) | 21:11 |
| guerby | AaronL2, yep but it generates full refreshes (that's what I did) so not that reactive | 21:11 |
| AaronL2 | yeah, I'm only kidding, the new technique that will be in the next version will work a lot better | 21:11 |
| guerby | AaronL2, great :) | 21:11 |
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| AaronL2 | + / - will be configurable--ctrl, alt, shift, middle, right, mouse movement without pressing, and local dragging of display | 21:12 |
| guerby | AaronL2, while I'm at it, why is the Fx menu split in two? | 21:12 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: maemo UI conventions--it is recommended to have a maximum number of items in a menu | 21:12 |
| AaronL2 | there is a document at maemo.org | 21:12 |
| qgil | hi, anybody using elisa modem + wlan access point at home (in Finland)? | 21:12 |
| guerby | AaronL2, well I'm all for an exception here :) the app menu are overflowing anyway | 21:13 |
| roope | That contains popular finnish expressions, translated into English. | 21:13 |
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| AaronL2 | guerby: do you think there is enough room for all the function keys? | 21:13 |
| AaronL2 | in a single menu? | 21:13 |
| AaronL2 | I rarely, use the function keys, so if it is going to be more convenient, I have no problem making the change as long as there is enough room | 21:14 |
| guerby | AaronL2, visually I'd say yes | 21:14 |
| Tak | ah | 21:14 |
| qgil | can it be possible that this adsl connection doesn't allow the connection of more than 1 laptop to the wireless network? (sorry for the offtopic, kinda desperate) | 21:14 |
| AaronL2 | k, I'll make the change for the next release :-) | 21:14 |
| AaronL2 | qgil: that's usually a feature of the VPN type, if you are using VPN | 21:15 |
| qgil | no no, just plain connections | 21:15 |
| guerby | AaronL2, may be change the menu by a popup with all the key and modifiers at once (multiple columns) | 21:15 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: I'm not sure I follow | 21:15 |
| guerby | AaronL2, a bit like the virtual keyboard | 21:15 |
| AaronL2 | btw, you know that you can access the special key menu from the standard menu too, right? | 21:15 |
| AaronL2 | this is convenient when in full screen mode | 21:16 |
| qgil | in Spain we had this access point directly connected, many computer could connect to the wlan and work properly | 21:16 |
| guerby | AaronL2, yes | 21:16 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: just checking :-) | 21:16 |
| qgil | now in Helsinki, this same access point is connected to the adsl modem provided by elisa, but apparently just one laptop can connect at a time - which doesn make much sense (to me) | 21:16 |
| guerby | AaronL2, one hard key touch plus four taps to reach F12 is not my definition of convenient :) | 21:16 |
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| AaronL2 | qgil: what if you are directly connected to the router? | 21:17 |
| AaronL2 | as opposed to wirelessly? | 21:17 |
| timeless | um | 21:17 |
| timeless | the elisa adsl router i got lets me connect a 770 an n800, a 9300i, and a dell latitude d610 all at once | 21:18 |
| guerby | AaronL2, is my suggestion of having a virtual-keyboard like mod/function key menu doable? | 21:18 |
| timeless | and probably others, i can use more if someone wants me to check | 21:18 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: so, the popup wouldn't be a menu, but more of a vk thing | 21:18 |
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| guerby | AaronL2, exactly, taking advantage of added screen real estate to present all at once | 21:18 |
| timeless | svn up? | 21:18 |
| timeless | oops, wrong window :) | 21:18 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: I think it is doable, but it would be a lot of work :-) | 21:18 |
| guerby | (menu is wasting lots of horiz space | 21:19 |
| guerby | AaronL2, well that's a suggestion :) | 21:19 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: what do you prefer, this feature in VNC or rdesktop? :-P | 21:19 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: it's a good suggestion | 21:19 |
| guerby | AaronL2, I haven't tried rdesktop, did you do the port too? | 21:19 |
| qgil | AaronL2: i'll try more combinations, now that I know that least someone got it to work :) | 21:19 |
| qgil | thanks! | 21:19 |
| AaronL2 | no, I haven't started working on rdesktop | 21:19 |
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| AaronL2 | the earlier effort done by someone else isn't really much of a port | 21:19 |
| * rev wishes there was an rdesktop FOSS server | 21:20 | |
| rev | it's performs so much better than VNC | 21:20 |
| AaronL2 | Detlef and I will work on rdesktop, most likely, as are next project | 21:20 |
| guerby | AaronL2, what are relative vnc vs rdesktop strength? | 21:20 |
| Tak | I might have time/ability to help with rdesktop, if desired | 21:20 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: you can specify the desktop size you want at the client level | 21:20 |
| rev | guerby: rdesktop is a TON faster than VNC | 21:20 |
| guerby | rev, protocol or implementation or both? | 21:20 |
| AaronL2 | with rdesktop--I think that is one of the main benefits for a device like the 770/N800 | 21:20 |
| Tak | not only desktop size, but bit depth | 21:20 |
| AaronL2 | right, that too, also, sound is sent | 21:21 |
| AaronL2 | because of the ability to pick the desktop size (bit depth is supporrted in VNC), it makes it more convenient for connecting to Windows systems | 21:21 |
| rev | guerby: not sure - but the FOSS rdesktop client running on linux or OS X and connecting to a windows RDP server performs similarily to the real RDP client running on a Windows machine... a little slower, but still a ton better than VNC for the same setup and bandwith | 21:21 |
| guerby | rev, also does our Linux xorg server support rdesktop right now? | 21:21 |
| AaronL2 | it isn't simply to create a VNC server for windows that is 800x480 | 21:21 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: I think there is a Linux rdc server | 21:22 |
| guerby | rev, what rdesktop client are you using on Linux? | 21:22 |
| AaronL2 | rdp, actually | 21:22 |
| rev | guerby: i don't think there is any RDP server fr linux, is there? | 21:22 |
| AaronL2 | most Loinux versions come with rdesktop | 21:22 |
| rev | AaronL2: a rdesktop client, though | 21:22 |
| AaronL2 | rev: there is, Detlef pointed out one to me yesterday | 21:22 |
| AaronL2 | I thoguht that there wasn't one as well | 21:22 |
| rev | AaronL2: and when it says "Remote Desktop" it refers to VNC- at least what i've seen in GNOME/Ubuntu | 21:22 |
| keesj | rev, I am not 100% sure | 21:22 |
| rev | guerby: rdesktop is the client- RDP is the protocol; i've used just what comes on the Ubuntu 5.04 LIveCD | 21:23 |
| guerby | $ apt-cache search rdesktop | 21:23 |
| guerby | gnome-rdp - Remote Desktop Client for the GNOME Desktop | 21:23 |
| guerby | grcm - GNOME application to initiate connections to remote machines | 21:23 |
| guerby | grdesktop - GNOME frontend for the rdesktop client | 21:23 |
| guerby | rdesktop - RDP client for Windows NT/2000 Terminal Server | 21:23 |
| guerby | tsclient - front-end for viewing of remote desktops in GNOME | 21:23 |
| guerby | krdc - Remote Desktop Connection for KDE | 21:23 |
| AaronL2 | xrdp.sourceforge.net | 21:23 |
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| Tak | I use grdesktop on pc | 21:23 |
| rev | AaronL2: ooh, tasty! i wonder how well it performs | 21:23 |
| AaronL2 | tsclient basically just calls vncviewer or rdesktop as appropriate | 21:23 |
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| AaronL2 | rev: no idea | 21:23 |
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| guerby | AaronL2, rev, no server in my apt-get, what's the name of the Linux rdp server? | 21:23 |
| rev | guerby: AaronL2 just posted the link ... xrdp.sourceforge.net | 21:24 |
| AaronL2 | where did you find grdesktop? | 21:24 |
| ssam | is this the right place to ask about the maemo.org website? | 21:24 |
| guerby | rev sorry I missed it | 21:24 |
| ferenc | ssam: yes | 21:24 |
| Tak | in apt :-P | 21:24 |
| rev | AaronL2: look at what guerby pasted | 21:24 |
| AaronL2 | yes, I saw, but I wonder where it can be found, never heard of it | 21:24 |
| rev | is grdesktop any better/different? | 21:24 |
| ssam | on http://maemo.org/platform/docs/pymaemo/python_maemo_howto.html the formatting of the source code examples make them almost unreadable | 21:24 |
| rev | or is it just a gnome front end to rdesktop? | 21:25 |
| Tak | rev: that's all it is | 21:25 |
| AaronL2 | grdesktop is a gnome frontend to rdesktop | 21:25 |
| AaronL2 | not all that helpful | 21:25 |
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| rev | ssam: for such acomplaint, you might want to email someone- not sure who, look around on the site... there might be a website maintainer here in channel, but the bulk of us have nothing to do with maemo.org | 21:25 |
| guerby | rev, RDP does allow to take control of an existing session? | 21:25 |
| AaronL2 | yes | 21:25 |
| ssam | rev ok thanks | 21:25 |
| guerby | AaronL2, ok | 21:26 |
| rev | guerby: yeah, but it boots the other person off- you can't have two people connected at the same time (to my knowledge) | 21:26 |
| guerby | rev, ah not fitting my main use of vncviewer then | 21:26 |
| AaronL2 | gnome-rdp might be interesting though: http://gnome-rdp.linuxforge.hu/ | 21:27 |
| guerby | rev, I wonder what my Windows admin are using at work (they move my mouse when I ask them something) | 21:27 |
| AaronL2 | guerby: not necessarily, it doesn't always boot someone off | 21:27 |
| AaronL2 | not for server installations of Windows | 21:27 |
| AaronL2 | and that wouldn't be the case on Linux | 21:27 |
| guerby | AaronL2, ah ok | 21:27 |
| AaronL2 | the booting someone off is true for Windows XP Professional | 21:27 |
| AaronL2 | and Vista | 21:27 |
| rev | guerby: i'm not saying VNC has no uses, far from it! i've just found that the RDP protocol performs a ton better than VNC- using rdesktop over a cable link to connect to my work Windows XP PC for most things performed just as well as if i was sitting down at the machine itself | 21:28 |
| AaronL2 | Windows XP Home doesn't support remote desktop as a server, I think | 21:28 |
| ferenc | ssam: ok, got it. you are absolutely right. i will mail the appropriate guys about the problem. | 21:28 |
| rev | guerby: they might be using either | 21:28 |
| ferenc | ssam: thanks! | 21:28 |
| ssam | ferenc, thanks | 21:28 |
| timeless | ferenc: hey | 21:28 |
| timeless | tak: ping | 21:28 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: quick question, I've been told that .install files can support multiple versions of the OS | 21:28 |
| Tak | timeless: pong? | 21:28 |
| ferenc | timeless: hello | 21:28 |
| timeless | i'm encountering a problem doing a svn up | 21:28 |
| guerby | rev, too bad we can't have the best of both worlds (at least on the Linux side) performance and shared control | 21:28 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: yes, true | 21:28 |
| timeless | i'm wondering if someone can talk me through what i'm allowed to do to files in the svn repos | 21:29 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: if that is the case, would it be possible for garage packages, when uploaded to the repository, to be combined into a single .install file? | 21:29 |
| Tak | what are you trying to do? | 21:29 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: currently, garage creates one .install file for each Os version | 21:29 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: yes, i am thinking about it :) | 21:29 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: very cool :-) | 21:29 |
| rev | guerby: shared control can be done with RDP- it just isn't the default way; for instance, shared control via RDP is what windows help request in XP does | 21:29 |
| aCiDBaSe | ssam: take a look at the updated version: http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/python-bora/python_maemo_howto.html | 21:29 |
| Tak | where do the autogenerated .install files get dumped? | 21:29 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: but it is difficult to know by the scripts which application works on both OSes. | 21:29 |
| guerby | rev, thanks for these info | 21:30 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: ferenc documented this in an e-mail post to maemo-developers some time ago | 21:30 |
| rev | guerby: no prob! | 21:30 |
| Tak | ok, will search | 21:30 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: I imagine, maybe there would be some way for developers to indicate, when uploading a package, which OSs are targeted? not sure | 21:30 |
| ssam | aCiDBaSe, thanks | 21:31 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: or, perhaps, it would be possible to upload all packages at once... somehow | 21:31 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: yes, the ultimate goal is to upload 1 source package and our build system makes the various binaries for all OSes | 21:31 |
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| ferenc | AaronL2: we are far from it.. | 21:31 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: not because of technical reasons.. | 21:32 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: right, but I was thinking of maybe being able to upload all the packages at once, that would indicate to the system that a single .install file should be created for all of them | 21:32 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: right legal stuff :-( | 21:32 |
| ferenc | ah, ok. | 21:32 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: yep. | 21:32 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: well, we have a non public upload queue, called: all :) | 21:33 |
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| AaronL2 | ferenc: I guess I can just easily create my own .install file, it won't be hard, but was just thinking it would be nice if the process were automated :-) | 21:34 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: sure. if you want we can make a test. do you have upload account to garage? | 21:35 |
| AaronL2 | yes | 21:35 |
| AaronL2 | I'm "Aaron Levinson"--I've contacted you before :-) | 21:35 |
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| ferenc | AaronL2: just checked it :) | 21:35 |
| guerby_ | hmm | 21:36 |
| ferenc | AaronL2 : ok. let me prepare that 'all' queue. i will let you know when you could upload there something. | 21:36 |
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| AaronL2 | cool, sounds good--what would I upload to it? | 21:36 |
| AaronL2 | I have different packages for bora and mistral/scirocco | 21:36 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: well, an application that works on all :) : mistral, scirocco, and bora | 21:37 |
| Tak | timeless: repong? | 21:37 |
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| AaronL2 | hmm, because of the libxau0 thing, I'm not sure if that's possible | 21:37 |
| AaronL2 | at least for VNC viewer | 21:37 |
| AaronL2 | it could be an empty package though | 21:37 |
| AaronL2 | that is just for the purpose of getting a proper .install file generated | 21:37 |
| Tak | I have a package that works on all... | 21:37 |
| timeless | tak: i need a channel | 21:38 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: it can be an empty one, but would be nice to have a real | 21:38 |
| ferenc | Tak: what's is that? | 21:38 |
| Tak | xmaeme | 21:38 |
| Tak | it's just a simple hildon launcher app | 21:38 |
| ferenc | Tak: right | 21:39 |
| ferenc | well, we could experiment with this all thingy, though it will not be officially supported from today onwards :) | 21:40 |
| Tak | sure | 21:40 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: that's cool, perhaps for now, it makes sense to create a .install file by hand, it doesn't need to be done very often | 21:40 |
| AaronL2 | plus, it will continue to work for future releases of a package | 21:41 |
| AaronL2 | and only needs to be updated when a new OS comes out | 21:41 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: on a separate note, I know that I've pestered you about this before, and no comment is a fine answer, but any chance of connecting statistics for a garage project to repository downloads? :-) | 21:42 |
| Tak | I'm interested in that as well | 21:42 |
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| roope | Quite harsh comments in Ari's blog. | 21:43 |
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| ferenc | AaronL2: the stats are diffcult, because the deb downloads are handled by a large caching network | 21:43 |
| ferenc | and collecting figures from there can not be automated :(( | 21:43 |
| keesj | how about installing it2006 on the n800? | 21:44 |
| ferenc | we have no access to their logs, only by special request. and then they send some "almost like a word document" | 21:44 |
| Tak | eww | 21:44 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: on the other hand often downloads are done by robots. | 21:44 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: another idea I had, not sure if it is feasible, is to have some code stored in the package that is automatically called when it is downloaded | 21:45 |
| rev | mmm robots | 21:46 |
| AaronL2 | not sure what is meant by robots here | 21:46 |
| Tak | ooo, like a popcon! | 21:46 |
| Tak | like googlebot | 21:46 |
| Tak | we can just port popcon to maemo/garage | 21:47 |
| * Jaffa should debificate his modification of the default N800 theme to use 12.75pt fonts | 21:47 | |
| waite | So US codes are broken but I FINALLY got an order in over the phone. The shipment will be delayed for a few days until the code becomes valid or mgr override. | 21:47 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: could you elaborate? how is the popcon informed of the download? | 21:48 |
| keesj | Jaffa, yes , eat your own dog food | 21:48 |
| ferenc | AaronL2: there could be 1 solution though. the code in the package is not really nice, it is a kind of trojan horse to me. | 21:48 |
| Jaffa | keesj: I was pondering whether to use MUD for it, indeed :-) | 21:48 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: yeah, not ideal | 21:48 |
| ferenc | but we may have 1 chance to see what is downloaded, i have to look into that | 21:48 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Gimme, gimme. I think the default font is _way_ to large ;) | 21:48 |
| Tak | http://popcon.debian.org/ | 21:48 |
| zyxulnaga | has anyone tried how long the batter lasts for in the n800 with full cpu usage? | 21:48 |
| waite | cant call 866-59nokia to make order tho | 21:48 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: it could be some sort of extra field stored in the control file | 21:48 |
| Tak | waite: what number, then? | 21:49 |
| AaronL2 | ferenc: similar to how an icon is added in | 21:49 |
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| waite | 888-665-4228 | 21:49 |
| waite | You may need to get above level 1 support they just type it into the web site. I had to escalate to L@ where Susan helped me. | 21:50 |
| * Tak archives | 21:50 | |
| zyxulnaga | I mean from full charged to no battery under 100% cpu load | 21:50 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: so, popcon requires that users inform it that they have downloaded a package? | 21:50 |
| waite | She got approval to accept the order but a mgt member needs to approve it and it might take a day or two before shipping. | 21:50 |
| Tak | AaronL2: it's a package that you install, which subsequently reaps info from apt | 21:50 |
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| AaronL2 | Tak: ah, the user has to install it | 21:51 |
| AaronL2 | ? | 21:51 |
| Tak | yes | 21:51 |
| AaronL2 | Tak: might not work so well in this case, why would users want to install it? | 21:51 |
| Tak | to be helpful ;-) | 21:51 |
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| AaronL2 | hehe, so they can send even more information that they don't know about to Microsoft? :-P | 21:52 |
| AaronL2 | hehe | 21:52 |
| Tak | microsoft? it's a debian thing | 21:52 |
| AaronL2 | I know, I was kidding | 21:52 |
| Tak | the incentive is to be part of the result, I suppose | 21:52 |
| AaronL2 | yeah, perhaps | 21:52 |
| Tak | the same reason people participate in hotornot.com | 21:52 |
| keesj | there is not enough porn on the 770 to let people care about privacy | 21:53 |
| Tak | keesj: wait until we have 32G sdhc ;-) | 21:53 |
| keesj | and a webcam. | 21:53 |
| Tak | n800 takes care of that | 21:53 |
| keesj | and apps with names like gizmo | 21:54 |
| AaronL2 | that bluetooth device that Thoughtfix has mentioned sounds interesting, the portable hard drive | 21:54 |
| keesj | and the connected wii remote that can be made to move from a remote location | 21:54 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: http://bleb.org/software/770/aira-12pt_1.0_all.deb (before I upload it) | 21:54 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Ok, let me test.. ;) | 21:55 |
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| tzz | I'm getting the PS3 BT remote for my cousin as a gift. I may try it with the N800, it might work. | 21:57 |
| tzz | Has anyone tried? | 21:57 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I get a 404? | 21:57 |
| Jaffa | Ah, I typoed: | 21:58 |
| Jaffa | http://bleb.org/software/770/aria-12pt_1.0_all.deb | 21:58 |
| Jaffa | Sorry about that. | 21:58 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: "Incompatible package application" | 21:59 |
| Jaffa | You could do something clever with post.inst scripts to auto shrink the font on all currently installed themes. | 21:59 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: doh, hang on | 21:59 |
| nomis | Hmm. Wiimote. Interesting idea - I have one :) | 21:59 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: try again (and thanks for testing) | 21:59 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: The theme name is Adria ;) | 22:01 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: arse. Well, it's smaller, hence the lack of the "d" ;-) | 22:01 |
| X-Fade | Ah, well that is a big difference. Finally no 'blurry' font. | 22:01 |
| X-Fade | This size is much better.. | 22:02 |
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| Jaffa | Bah, the wiki seems to be down so I can't work out how to upload something to extras | 22:13 |
| Tak | you have a garage account? | 22:15 |
| hap | that wiki isn't perfect for adding "wish list" btw | 22:15 |
| Milhouse | maemo bugzilla down too? | 22:15 |
| Jaffa | Tak: yeah, I was wondering about the dput.conf | 22:15 |
| feren1 | the whole maemo.org is down :( | 22:15 |
| Jaffa | ah, lo feren1 | 22:16 |
| Milhouse | feren1: looks that way! | 22:16 |
| Tak | I was going to point you to an email referencing my dput.cf, but the archive is down ;-) | 22:16 |
| feren1 | bbs | 22:16 |
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| Tak | aha, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/15182?search_string=dput.cf;#15182 | 22:17 |
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| Jaffa | ta | 22:17 |
| Tak | np | 22:17 |
| Jaffa | Of course, I've not yet entered my SSH keys in garage, so that could be interesting ;-) | 22:17 |
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| keesj | you need the ssh and gpg key | 22:18 |
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| ferenc | the ssh key must be an RSA one | 22:20 |
| inz | grr, application manager requires an install file to be named .install | 22:20 |
| inz | mod_rewrite to the rescue! | 22:20 |
| desrt | any idea on when the countries of n800 availability will increase? | 22:21 |
| desrt | if/when | 22:21 |
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| inz | I created a php script that checks, if a package is in my mistral/bora repositories and creates an .install file with the appopriate fields | 22:22 |
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| ferenc | maemo.org is back | 22:23 |
| Tak | woo! | 22:23 |
| inz | But application installer didn't cope with that, so I needed to make mod_rewrite rule ^(.*)\.install$ /install.php?package=$1 | 22:24 |
| ajbarr | anyone here that can help me with getting an N800 with a discount code? | 22:24 |
| ferenc | thanks for someone who reacted so quick | 22:24 |
| ajbarr | i'm having no luck with the nokiausa.com site or on the phone | 22:24 |
| Tak | try 888-665-4228 and ask for L2 ? | 22:24 |
| ajbarr | yes | 22:25 |
| ajbarr | they had no idea what I was talking about either :-/ | 22:25 |
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| Zmanu | hello | 22:26 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: I deleted one of my mailing lists because I thought I'd lost the password, and recreated it - but it's not been authorised yet | 22:29 |
| Zmanu | i have an n770 with os2006, so logically i must install armel package, but when i download ncurses-bin_5.5-1_armel.deb i have an error, i can't install | 22:30 |
| Zmanu | is someone can explain to me why ? | 22:30 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: you need it immediately? | 22:31 |
| ferenc | there is a cron job which takes care of that once an hour | 22:31 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: no, it's just been a dyay or so | 22:31 |
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| Jaffa | ferenc: ah, that's broken then | 22:31 |
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| ferenc | ok, lemme check. | 22:32 |
| Tak | Zmanu: is this within the application manager? | 22:32 |
| Zmanu | yes | 22:32 |
| Tak | the app manager only supports debs in the user/* groups | 22:33 |
| Zmanu | and what can i do ? | 22:33 |
| Tak | to install other debs, you either need to do it at the command line as root, or use "red pill mode" in the app manager | 22:33 |
| Zmanu | to install i use dpkg -i package.deb ? | 22:34 |
| Zmanu | like in debian | 22:34 |
| Tak | yeah | 22:34 |
| Zmanu | thanks i go to try | 22:34 |
| Jaffa | Technology *ROCKS* | 22:36 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: can you check the list now? | 22:37 |
| maddler | Jaffa: and N800 rocks more!!! | 22:37 |
| maddler | :DDDDD | 22:37 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/admin/mud-builder-commits says "No such list", despite it being the link from the "Mail admin" page | 22:38 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: checking it | 22:39 |
| guerby | I see a busybox 3:1.1.3-3.sdk2 update, what does it add? | 22:39 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, I've not got a current GPG/PGP key. Best get one. | 22:39 |
| nelson | Cool. Email still works from Finland to the US. | 22:40 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: thanks | 22:40 |
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| Tak | nelson: oh? I heard the tube was clogged | 22:41 |
| sxpert | Tak, use liquid plummer :D | 22:41 |
| Zmanu | Tak: dpkg -i change nothing impossible to install them | 22:42 |
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| dwd | So... US codes went out today, right? What time? | 22:42 |
| Zmanu | armel is not for os2006 on n770 ? | 22:42 |
| guerby | nelson, congrats :) | 22:42 |
| inz | Zmanu, yes it is | 22:42 |
| Zmanu | so why some can't be install on my n779 ? | 22:43 |
| inz | What does it say? | 22:43 |
| Zmanu | not compatible | 22:43 |
| inz | dpkg says not compatible? | 22:43 |
| dwd | I ask because I got a code today, and the UK shop rejects it. In red letters, and everything. So I'm wondering if Nokia think I'm from the states. | 22:44 |
| Tak | dwd: I got mine ~noon cst | 22:44 |
| dwd | Tak: What's that in a real timezone? ;-) | 22:44 |
| Zmanu | not dpkg but install manager | 22:44 |
| Tak | I'm gmt-6 iirc | 22:44 |
| dwd | Tak: It's 20:44 UTC (GMT+0000) | 22:44 |
| inz | Zmanu, that's because ncurses-bin's Section isn't user/something | 22:45 |
| Zmanu | error is "is not a debian core" | 22:45 |
| Tak | I have 14:44 | 22:45 |
| Zmanu | inz: i don't understand user/something | 22:45 |
| dwd | Damn. I have a US code, most likely, then. Almost worth emigrating, except nobody can make a decent cup of tea over in the colonies. | 22:46 |
| inz | Zmanu, in debian, all packages have a "section" defined. maemo application manager requires this section to start with "user/" in order to install it | 22:46 |
| Tak | meh, you're better off where you are | 22:46 |
| Zmanu | how can i do that ? | 22:46 |
| Tak | don't worry, even people in the US are having trouble with the US codes ;-) | 22:46 |
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| pbrook | dwd: Apparently the US shop is also broken, so I'm still hopeful. | 22:46 |
| inz | Zmanu, short answer: you can't, long answer: install the development environment, get the source and rebuild the package | 22:46 |
| pbrook | It does quote the price in euros, and have a link to the EU shop... | 22:47 |
| dwd | Yeah, mine does, too, come to think of it. | 22:47 |
| Tak | mine is the same, though | 22:47 |
| Zmanu | inz: why package in maemo-hacker doesn,'t be build ro work | 22:48 |
| Zmanu | s/ro/to | 22:48 |
| dwd | Tak: Oh - link to the europe.nokia.com site? | 22:48 |
| Tak | yeah | 22:48 |
| Tak | nseries.com and europe.nokia.com | 22:48 |
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| inz | Zmanu, i never though someone would like to install the ncurses-bin package | 22:48 |
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| inz | Zmanu, (otoh, it would collide with busybox) | 22:48 |
| Zmanu | inz: thanks for answer | 22:50 |
| inz | Mmh, I wonder, if someone's borrowing my wlan | 22:51 |
| AaronL2 | based on the e-mails I'm seeing to maemo-developers, it seems that this US coupon code thing is a never-ending nightmare | 22:51 |
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| AaronL2 | my session has probably already timed out | 22:52 |
| AaronL2 | and my coupon code may no longer work | 22:52 |
| inz | Aaron, yankees gotta earn their discount ;) | 22:52 |
| AaronL2 | what do you consider "earning" a discount? :-) | 22:52 |
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| inz | Aaron, in this case: do some work for it ;) | 22:53 |
| AaronL2 | well, that should be no problem | 22:53 |
| hub | AaronL2: let alone in Canada.... | 22:55 |
| * hub ask the list. | 22:55 | |
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| Lyndon | hmm...wtf i just tried my new transcend 4GB card as inner memory card in n800, when i powered device it started "rebooting" and i had to take battery off. Now when i put old card back it shows nokia logo and then shutdowns :( | 23:02 |
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| ferenc | Jaffa: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/mud-builder-commits/ | 23:06 |
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| Jaffa | ferenc: 404? | 23:07 |
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| ferenc | Jaffa: i don't get it. when i sent you the link it was OK. | 23:07 |
| ferenc | something is really screwed up with gforge.. | 23:08 |
| Jaffa | doh | 23:08 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: now it is ok | 23:09 |
| ferenc | but i think the list is still marked deleted in the DB | 23:09 |
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| ferenc | so next time the cron runs, it will remove it.. | 23:09 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: excellent, thanks. | 23:09 |
| Jaffa | ah. | 23:09 |
| ferenc | now checking the DB | 23:09 |
| Jaffa | So deleting a list and recreating it is a Bad Idea | 23:09 |
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| ferenc | Jaffa: well, it seems so.. something was not cleaned up properly. | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | Excellent, the VidConvert bookmarklet works much better in Opera 8.5. | 23:14 |
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| waite | AaronL2 you are fine. I just cleared my cart, which had the coupon. And tried to reapply to a new order and it was fine. I did not complete the transaction because I did it over the phone. | 23:15 |
| dwd | waite: You didn't snarf two at the discount price? :-) | 23:15 |
| waite | No. I thought it was only usable for one and I would not abuse even if I could have :) | 23:16 |
| waite | I am happy to have it ordered at all | 23:16 |
| ferenc | Jaffa: yes, my guess was correct | 23:16 |
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| ferenc | one table in the DB was not updated properly | 23:16 |
| ferenc | there was an other list which had the same problem | 23:17 |
| Jaffa | ferenc: excellent, good catch | 23:17 |
| dwd | waite: Yeah. Mine seems to be a US code. I get "The code you entered is not valid" from the UK shop, which doesn't appear to be the same problem as the US problems. | 23:18 |
| waite | right. Call the US shop at the phone # I sent to the list and you can get it ordered. I warned her of the impending flood :) | 23:19 |
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| inz | gah, building ncurses takes ages... | 23:20 |
| inz | And makes my legs burn | 23:20 |
| dwd | waite: DOubt I can order it from the US shop either, being a Brit. | 23:21 |
| Aleksandyr | the US shop is working now? | 23:21 |
| waite | Dwd, you should mail quim and ask for an EU code instead. | 23:21 |
| pbrook | Hmm, the US site appears to have a UK shop that's different to the UK shop on the EU site... | 23:22 |
| waite | pbrook, that might be the most confusing thing I have heard all day | 23:22 |
| pbrook | So I guess that might work once they unbreak the codes. | 23:23 |
| pbrook | Interestingly, the UK-via-US shop has free delivery, the UK-via-EU shop charges £5. | 23:23 |
| waite | pbrook, right. I think once Nokia Eurpoe is awake things will get resolved. | 23:24 |
| guerby | Tak, do you know a place where there are at least one legit download for mame/gba/nes ? (so I can test xmaeme :) | 23:25 |
| Aleksandyr | guerby, I'd say to look up "gba homebrew" or "gba homebrew demo" | 23:25 |
| zyxulnaga | xmame plays gba and nes games? | 23:25 |
| dwd | waite: I dropped a mail to team@maemo, since that's where the code came from. | 23:25 |
| guerby | zyxulnaga, xmaeme is a frontend to xmame + virtualboy + fceu (nes) | 23:26 |
| dwd | pbrook: Oooh. Cheap delivery. Cool. :-) | 23:26 |
| zyxulnaga | ahh nice | 23:26 |
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| Tak | one sec | 23:27 |
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| Tak | did they get the coupon stuff sorted out now? | 23:28 |
| * gpd notes http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_mmc_ext2 | 23:29 | |
| waite | tak, I think everyone is afraid to try | 23:30 |
| Tak | lol | 23:30 |
| hap | :) | 23:30 |
| hap | i rather would use a crypted fs on the MMC | 23:30 |
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| waite | with somne patience you can place an order with your code right now . You just might be on the phone for 30 mins and trying to breathe deeply with clueless CSRs | 23:31 |
| hap | for the US police at the airport not seeing my child porn on my sd cards... you go to jail for that don't you ? | 23:31 |
| nomis | waite: that sounds like fun. | 23:31 |
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| waite | nomis, it is painful but it works. | 23:32 |
| AaronL2 | tried my order again just now--it went through!!!! | 23:32 |
| waite | congrats! | 23:32 |
| Jaffa | AaronL2: excellent | 23:32 |
| Tak | woo! | 23:32 |
| nnod_ | are you guys ordering from europe? | 23:32 |
| AaronL2 | US for me | 23:32 |
| AaronL2 | someone just wrote to the e-mail list that his US order went through via the on-line system, so I just tried again | 23:32 |
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| Tak | http://www.gameboy-advance-roms.com/free_gba_roms.htm | 23:33 |
| AaronL2 | Jon Smirl | 23:33 |
| jonnylamb | hey all. i want to buy the n800 from the UK site with a discount code. is it actually working? i've heard many stories here and on maemo-developers.. | 23:34 |
| dwd | jonnylamb: Did you get your code today, around 1700 onwards? | 23:34 |
| guerby | Tak, thx | 23:34 |
| Tak | and http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/roms.html | 23:34 |
| jonnylamb | dwd: certainly did- 1721 | 23:34 |
| dwd | jonnylamb: Same time as me. My code doesn't work, at least on the UK site. Possibly it's a US code. | 23:35 |
| guerby | Tak any advice on a fun free game? | 23:35 |
| jonnylamb | dwd: ah. the email does link to europe.nokia.com however... | 23:35 |
| Tak | well, elite definitely does *not* work | 23:35 |
| dwd | jonnylamb: Apparently, so do the yanks' ones. | 23:36 |
| jonnylamb | dwd: i haven't actually tried it yet. i don't want to do something wrong and void the code..! | 23:36 |
| jonnylamb | dwd: ...as someone in the mailing list did! | 23:36 |
| inz | mmh, Zmanu left already -- but now there is a ncurses-bin in maemo-hackers repository that is application installable | 23:36 |
| Tak | other than that, no recommendations | 23:36 |
| dwd | jonnylamb: Mine's rejected outright, so it's probably safe to try. | 23:36 |
| * dwd food & | 23:36 | |
| jonnylamb | dwd: okay thanks :) | 23:37 |
| guerby | Tak, funny elite was my first download :) | 23:37 |
| Tak | fceu doesn't handle the rendering correctly for elite | 23:37 |
| Tak | I'm not sure if the game is misusing a mapper, or if fceu's mapper impl is lacking | 23:38 |
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| * maddler on 800!!! | 23:39 | |
| maddler | great!!! | 23:39 |
| |tbb| | what r those files unde /etc like pointercal-ls041y3-0401.default | 23:39 |
| Jaffa | woohoo :) | 23:39 |
| maddler | wonderful device! | 23:39 |
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| maddler | I'm really in *love* | 23:40 |
| maddler | ghgh | 23:40 |
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| guerby | Tak, hmm not one game working so far | 23:41 |
| Tak | :-( | 23:41 |
| Tak | tbh, I've only tried proprietary roms, with the exception of elite | 23:41 |
| inz | maddler, I was in love until I popped out the camera and saw my picture on it... that was really a turnoff | 23:42 |
| inz | maddler, w/ the device, that is, I still am love w/ my SO | 23:42 |
| hap | inz: when I saw i couldn't see myself and had to move left, that was a _real_ turnoff | 23:43 |
| * Jaffa turned his camera around, saw Mrs Jaffa and then the N800 got even better ;-) | 23:43 | |
| Jaffa | hap: yeah, that's a pain | 23:44 |
| guerby | Tak ok remove time | 23:44 |
| timeless | zfs :) | 23:44 |
| inz | hap, I agree, the first time I saw the webcam work I realised, that this is a major design issue | 23:44 |
| timeless | => hap | 23:44 |
| hap | i found so much issues like that, | 23:45 |
| Lyndon | have anyone else had these problems with n800 starting up (i'll see only nokia logo and it shutdowns), could flashing or something else help?? | 23:45 |
| hap | i'm making a "wish list" system for the last few hours, to write them down and have a nice list. | 23:45 |
| hap | so everyone can add their owns | 23:45 |
| hap | (rails powered) | 23:45 |
| Jaffa | hap: cool. I suppose taskt.com could do it - I should really finish it (grails powered) | 23:45 |
| timeless | ferenc: sometime middle of next month i'll try to catch up w/ you and try to get it on garage | 23:45 |
| tzz | Lyndon: I've had that when the battery was weak | 23:45 |
| |tbb| | Tak, how about the speed on the n800 running nes emulator | 23:45 |
| timeless | ferenc: atm, i'm trying to get those changes stable and such | 23:46 |
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| Tak | |tbb|: tbh, I've had mixed reports | 23:46 |
| hap | Jaffa: mm probably, let me finish mine first | 23:46 |
| hap | at last i'll publish the svn code for it, i'll use it for later | 23:46 |
| |tbb| | Lyndon may battery goes out | 23:46 |
| Lyndon | :) when i'll put charger in, it reboots whole time | 23:46 |
| Tak | speed is ok on 770 though, so even if it's a little slow now on n800, it can definitely be improved | 23:46 |
| hap | Jaffa: what's grails ? :) | 23:46 |
| Lyndon | nokia flashes and goes black | 23:46 |
| |tbb| | ok then setup following, mom | 23:46 |
| hap | Jaffa: you have nice icons ;) | 23:46 |
| |tbb| | flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | hap: a JVM-based Groovy-powered version of Rails | 23:47 |
| |tbb| | that helps me too | 23:47 |
| hap | ah ok | 23:47 |
| hap | JVM, you mean java? | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | hap: indeed | 23:47 |
| hap | ok | 23:47 |
| zyxulnaga | what the no-lifeguard reset does? | 23:47 |
| |tbb| | what for icons u read about | 23:48 |
| zyxulnaga | it doesnt reset incase of a crash? | 23:48 |
| guerby | fceu doesn't remove properly (it leaves stuff in /home/user/.fceultra ) | 23:48 |
| ferenc | timeless: ok | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | guerby: that's standard Debian package behaviour | 23:48 |
| guerby | Jaffa, ok | 23:49 |
| Tak | that stuff isn't part of the package; it's generated by fceu at runtime | 23:49 |
| |tbb| | yes it seems so, if some service broked to much it will never load again so it end up in endless reboot i think ive heard that | 23:49 |
| Lyndon | |tbb|: thanks... find a post for it http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-users@maemo.org/msg02714.html | 23:49 |
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| Tak | guerby: did you get any of the homebrew games to work? | 23:50 |
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| Lyndon | first thought that it was my new 4GB SD card messing around :O | 23:50 |
| guerby | Tak, five try none working, I removed everything (xmame, xameme, fceu and visual) | 23:51 |
| maddler | Jaffa: which file you said is to be fixed to fix BT? | 23:51 |
| Tak | ok | 23:51 |
| Tak | did they not launch at all? or did they run, just not correctly? | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | maddler: "fix BT"? | 23:52 |
| guerby | Tak some launched but no move, some moved but key seemed to have no effect | 23:52 |
| guerby | Tak, I suggest listing a few legit ROM known to work URLs somewhere (or even package them :) | 23:53 |
| Tak | that's actually a very good idea | 23:53 |
| Tak | I'll do that | 23:53 |
| guerby | Tak thanks :) | 23:53 |
| Tak | did you try roms for all systems? | 23:53 |
| guerby | Tak, yep | 23:54 |
| Tak | same symptoms across the board? | 23:54 |
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| inz | Hmm, I wonder where I put the N800 -- I an ssh in just fine. =) | 23:54 |
| guerby | Tak, no some fixed image, some moving stuff but no way to start | 23:54 |
| Tak | ok | 23:55 |
| guerby | Tak, no sound I noticed | 23:55 |
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| Tak | hm :-/ | 23:55 |
| Tak | did you install from extras repo, or download from the project page? | 23:55 |
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| guerby | Tak all extra repo free non-free bora | 23:56 |
| Tak | ok | 23:56 |
| guerby | (with app manager) | 23:56 |
| * Tak nods | 23:56 | |
| maddler | nice... default adressbook now has phone field... | 23:57 |
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| |tbb| | yeah someone knows we can hack something there to add some custom fields? | 23:59 |
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