IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2007-01-26

|tbb|maddler what irc client do u use at ur lovely brand new fast delivered n800 ?00:00
guerbywill nokia N800 people be at FOSDEM?00:01
maddlerirssi over screen over ssh :D00:02
spaetzmaddler: hehe, good choice00:02
Takguerby: thanks for testing, btw00:03
|tbb|irssi on desktop00:03
guerbyTak, no pb, let me know if you package something with ROMs I'll test again :)00:03
Takwill do00:03
maddlerspaetz: hehehe00:03
inzmaddler, i.e. teh standard ;)00:03
inzmaddler, for your sake I hope you're using my xterm and not the one from ;)00:04
maddlergimme a link for your... ;)00:04
inzmaddler, ;)00:05
|tbb|maddler,  deb bora main00:05
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maddlerbrb ;)00:05
tolgam_hi everyone !00:06
minraso is nokia actually promoting the n800 now?00:07
minrait's still a unique product in the world... they still have the #1 position00:08
minrait will not last forever00:08
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tolgam_there seems to be a troll about to be launched...00:09
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maddlerminra: N800 is *the* product!!!00:12
Takyou seem to have some kind of alphabetic discharge00:13
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maddlerinz... smtg wrong with repo00:14
inzmaddler, how so?00:14
maddlercan't find Packages00:15
inzit worked just fine just a minute ago00:15
maddlertryin' again...00:15
inzI still can't find the N800, but at least with apt-get it works fine00:16
bmidgleymy session at nokiausa hadn't expired... I tried again and it went through00:16
bmidgleyn800 on its way00:16
inzMaybe I should make it play an alarm00:16
maddlerbmidgley: great00:18
maddlerinz... noway...00:19
inzmaddler, what does it say exactly?00:22
maddlerworking now...00:25
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mitchelocminra: and what other product is superior and has a similar platform?00:25
maddlerbut just realized I already had it...00:26
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inzyay, I founds the N80000:27
inzIt was under the bed00:27
mitchelocinz: tossed it under there when the alarm started going off?00:27
Taksweet, I only have monsters under mine00:27
inzmitcheloc, guess I placed it on the floor and kicked it a bit at some point00:28
inzmitch, but then I made it play the alarm via ssh and found it =900:28
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mitchelochah, that's funny00:29
mitchelocwhat command did you use to set off the alarm?00:30
maddlerinz: need to study dbus... eheh00:32
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konfoothe codes work now!!00:33
* konfoo *phew*00:33
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maddlerkonfoo: nice to hear...00:34
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jon1012someone is oorganising 770 burning parties ?00:34
jon1012I mean if it's abandonned like that00:34
J5hey guys, anyone else having problems ordering with their discount code in the US?00:35
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maddlerinz: it's me? or sometimes letters get reeated in xterm?00:35
jon1012great move nokia abandoning customers ! won't come back for sure :)00:35
Takwho said the 770 is abandoned?00:35
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maddler770 is Not abaandoned...00:35
TakJ5: people have been having problems, but it seems like it's pretty much ok now...00:36
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J5trying again from scratch :)00:37
anothy_xhe's gone. was in for a whopping one minute (exactly). i don't imagine it was a particularly well reasoned complaint.00:37
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Takhe could have at least donated his 770 to me :-P00:38
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Andy80maddler: can I show you a thing in private :) ?00:38
c0ffeeuuuh, a secret :)00:38
keesjthe n800 thumbpad really rocks00:38
Takhow does it differ from the 770 thumbpad?00:39
keesjit has a positive vibe!00:39
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jon1012bug, sorry00:40
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Takjon1012: so who says 770 is abandoned?00:40
J5no luck00:40
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jon1012(btw, our company just abandonned two software project related to the 770)00:40
MacSlowhow in the world did they do canola animate so nice?00:41
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jon1012Tak: well, saying no end-user backport and things like that. This is clearly and abandonment00:41
anothy_xoh, so it's abandoned by *you*! got it.00:41
keesjit is pretty hard for me to explain.00:41
MacSlowI totally don't get my head around how the expose stuff works under maemo00:41
jtraanybody keen to try my new game?
Takjon1012: the *first* version of the backport isn't going to be end-user ready00:41
jon1012Tak: that's not what can be understood on the blog post00:42
jon1012(seriously, having bought a nokia 770 juste some months ago, and finding that my newly purchased product is "end-of-life" really pisses me off :))00:44
maddlerjon1012: 770 is not eol...00:45
jon1012nah, it just looks like that then00:45
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jon1012anyway I don't like to be some flamebaiter or troll, so I won't speak too much :)00:46
maddlerjon1012: no problem...00:47
|tbb|jon where it says its end up life ?00:47
maddleryou weren't flaming...00:47
jon1012I'll write some blog posts about it to explain whow it was a terrible PR move from nokia, imho00:47
maddlerI can understant what you say... but as of now there is no reason to say 770 is EOL00:47
keesjis there a .install for maemo-hackers ?00:48
Andy80jon1012: you can always use it as wardriving-tool :D00:48
Andy80maddler: ;D00:48
maddlerjon1012: but which post are you talking about?00:48
maddlerAndy80: a _great_ tool!00:48
maddler770 keeps being a great device...00:48
|tbb|maddler even more if u fix the garbage problem ;)00:49
c0ffeehey tbb00:50
c0ffeewas busy earlier today, so i didn't answer you00:50
jon1012no but saying "you will always have flash 5", "we won't be porting everything, because you know the 770 is an old device" and things like that. To me, it's an EOL00:50
jon1012no support anymore that is00:50
konfooEOL is a fact of life00:50
konfoosorry dunno how else to put it00:51
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jon1012yeah :)00:51
inzAre you ready to pay for opera or flash?00:51
jon1012loosing customers is a fact of life too :)00:51
c0ffeestuff licenced from 3rd parties is difficult, because you had to pay for an update a lot00:51
konfoojon1012: at least youre not selling portable media centers...00:51
jon1012if it's not 100$ then I'm ok to pay00:51
c0ffeei'd expect to be even more00:52
konfooopera probably wouldnt even touch that00:52
konfooive dealt with them for embedded projects on a h.264 decoder platform00:52
maddler|tbb|: hahahaha... I'll work on it :)00:52
konfooif you cant show the numbers they give a rats ass00:52
jon1012I mean, even asus with pocket pc had a better customer support !00:53
konfoousers are your problem, not theirs. only nokia can rectify this browser issue, really. and is it worth their time (how many 770 users are shouting for support?)00:53
konfooyour being nokia's00:53
suihkulokkijon1012: the difference is, when asus stops support, you are fucked up00:53
jon1012at the time, if you purchased the first version of the product, you could get a big rebate on the next gen.00:53
jon1012suihkulokki: with the 770 it's the same... I thought it was different but I was wrong00:54
suihkulokkijon1012: when Nokia stops support, you still have all the sources around to change the device to do what you want00:54
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||cwexcept for the wifi driver00:55
zoglesbybut you don't have the source to everything00:55
||cwor is that open now00:55
c0ffeethere's a firmware blob at least00:55
jon1012it's a frankenstein stuff... half open source, half closed00:55
c0ffeethere are little points left that couldn't be reverse engineered easily00:55
c0ffeefor certain values of 'easily' ofcourse :)00:56
mitchelocare tehy violating gpl, keeping some closed and some open?00:56
jon1012mitcheloc: I don't think so00:56
|tbb|about custom, support my aunt has buyed an xbox game, the tutorial is in german the gamelanguage is english. I called the support number which is written in the  booklet , the hotline says they doesnt know the game, haha00:56
zoglesbyits not a big deal, look at the zaurus, I have one of them as well and its still being developed after EOL00:56
||cwnot at all, mostly just drivers00:56
|tbb|i called the support to ask if this is normal00:57
jon1012zoglesby: yeah but here, nokia encourages people to buy a n800, so people won't continue supporting the 77000:57
zoglesbymitcheloc:some stuff they have no control over, like opera and flash00:57
c0ffeeobviously some people are putting enormous ammounts of work into the 77000:58
c0ffeesee the os2007on770 url in the topic00:58
mitchelochas anyone here seen the athena?00:58
zoglesbyjon1012: sharp came out with newer versions of the zaurus (6000 i think) but that didnt stop anything00:58
mitcheloci wonder how this compares to the n800 ->
maddlerhmmm... was anyone able to load ext2 and g_ether modules01:02
jon1012c0ffee: and this is great :)01:02
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extremewhere are you01:02
extremei want u01:02
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exocetwell done01:03
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maddlerhmmm... g_ether works...01:03
maddlerbut ext2 isn't! :(01:03
maddlerI can't mount my old MMC!01:03
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mitchelocc0ffee: secret op? =P01:04
c0ffeedo you have the ext2 module loaded?01:04
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c0ffeeit's not very secret01:04
Jaffajon1012: if your company was working on 770 product, there's no reason to assume it won't also work with the N800. You should be glad your market has got bigger.01:04
maddlerc0ffee: no... I need to have it loaded... but it won't load...01:05
maddlerNokia-N800-51:/etc# insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext3.ko01:05
maddlerinsmod: cannot insert `/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext3.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory01:05
maddlersame for ext201:05
Jaffamaddler: insmod .../mbcache.ko first01:05
maddlerJaffa: doh!01:06
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jon1012Jaffa: without means to test it, we won't continue working on it01:06
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maddlerJaffa: could love you too...01:06
jon1012anyway that's not important, the decision is already taken01:07
maddlerbut... man... you know... I already have a 770, then N800, then my daughter and then my wife...01:07
Jaffaeh? You've now got a market consisting of two devices rather than one. The second is already showing signs of being much more popular than the first. Your market is bigger. Your potential revenue is larger, for only a little more outlay.01:07
maddlerthat would be too much! :D01:07
JaffaIt sounds like you're making business decisions based on the always shitty feeling of buying something just before its replacement.01:07
jon1012yeah I've based this one on this :)01:07
jon1012and I'm an ass.01:07
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suihkulokkiI don't know if you are an ass, but your companies decissions are clearly coming out of one01:08
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jon1012no, but we were unsure of developing for a small market like this one... and finally we've gone for umpc and windows mobile systems01:09
jon1012(we where on planning process)01:09
pbrookjon1012: By my reading the 770 has been about for a year or so, before a better product was released, which IMHO is pretty good for a fairly experimental hi-tech device.01:09
jon1012and that's not what is really pleasing me01:09
suihkulokkijon1012: so because maemo isn't open, you decide to change to a locked platform?01:09
jon1012suihkulokki: no, but you can install linux on those devices01:10
jon1012suihkulokki: and a more standard system than maemo01:10
suihkulokkijon1012: are you even aware how few incompatabilites there are on between 770 and n800?01:10
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jon1012(btw, we have gone for platform independance with xhtml / css / javascript and server-side scripting...)01:11
jon1012(instead of gtk apps)01:11
suihkulokkijon1012: so who is going to support your companies linux business on linux installed on a windows mobile device?01:11
maddlerdamn! need wget on N800!01:11
jon1012suihkulokki: we are going to some ajax interface with django backend01:12
jon1012suihkulokki: that's all01:12
jon1012suihkulokki: instead of some specific maemo dev01:12
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jon1012suihkulokki: this way we can use other hardward if necessary01:12
suihkulokkijon1012: then I don't see where the problem is01:13
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konfooheh ie for windows mobile.. good luck with ajax on that pile01:13
jon1012suihkulokki: the problem is that I've had an hard time convincing people to do gtk system, and that release of a new incompatible (even if very slightly) system blew it up :)01:13
jon1012konfoo: minimo works on pocket pc01:14
maddlerdamn... looks like I'll have to work on a busybox new port as well! :)01:14
mitchelocyou can install Opera on windows mobile -- but it costs $20+ per device license01:14
inzDoes anyone here like sgt-puzzles?01:14
konfoojon1012: true.. just saying01:14
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Jaffajon1012: sorry, it sounds like they were never convinced then. There were incompatibilities between XP and SP2 (I worked on some testing of one of IBM's products on SP2) but did that cause people to abandon MS Windows? No, you test, tweak if necessary and - in this case - rejoice at the suddenly larger market.01:16
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konfoosounds like you are the wolf in the winblows camp01:17
jon1012(but what is good however with n800 is that it seems like mono got ported to it... and that means maybe some wndows mobile apps written in c# available to maemo users)01:19
minramicrosoft:  where do you want to goatse today?01:19
mitchelocengadget just posted some reviews on the n80001:19
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gpddon't expect to replace your laptop, PDA or cellphone just yet....01:21
gpdthey don't get it... this isn't a replacement -- it is a complementary addition...01:22
JaffaRight, HTF do you use Maemo mapper? I understand why gnuite doesn't want to publicise ripping off Google Maps (even though the system was/is obviously designed for exactly one map format), but there's a limit to my patience for these things.01:22
mitchelocthey should have pointed out the camera01:23
gpdJaffa: there is a handy page that gives you step by step... /me looks01:23
timelessgoogle would sue them01:23
Jaffatimeless: I doubt it.01:24
jon1012Jaffa: my maemo mapper worked for one month01:24
AleksandyrJaffa&timeless: Google would C&D the entire project, which is about the same effect.01:24
Jaffagpd: ta01:24
jon1012Jaffa: but google maps changed their urls01:24
timelesstheir urls haven't changed significantly01:24
timelessi've been using maemo mapper for 6months01:24
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JaffaAleksandyr: In that case, it needs a better plugin system. Positional parameters obviously tie it to a single vendor.01:24
gpdJaffa: I find that mixing satellite and map is annoying as it caches both and displays whatever you have01:24
timelessi have a large archive if someone can figure out a safe way to share it01:24
eeejayso the n800 supports all those flash card formats in _both_ slots?01:25
timelessthe slots are identical01:25
gpdcan we confirm that 4G+ SDHC is kernel update away -- rather than hardware limited?01:26
eeejaytimeless: so, I should just get the cheapest format I could find, right?01:26
JaffaIt turns out that the article from gpd is what I wanted: some proper enduser documentation (e.g. when do you "manage maps" and when do you "manage repositories")01:26
timelessif you have to pay for it and have no other devices to stick it into? yes01:26
timelessime the prices are nearly identical for all formats01:26
timelessotoh, i've been having other people buy me cards, 1g for maybe $30?01:27
gpdJaffa: once you have the repository set to the URL - you shouldn't need to manage maps much -- just zoom and pan and it should download otf01:27
eeejayah, ok01:27
maddlerthis is the actual one :)01:27
maddlernot 2.2901:27
mitchelocmy 2gig sd card cost $60 from costco01:28
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nnod_was anyone from europe able to order the n800 with the discount code today?01:28
gpdanyone worked out how to do 'right-click' in scummvm?01:28
jon1012maddler: thx :)01:28
maddlerdamn... here I pay 35E for a 4GB SD01:28
maddlerjon1012: you are welcome...01:28
jon1012btw, are those 4gb working on the 770 ?01:29
maddlergpd: turn your device topdown... :)01:29
jon1012or only n800 ?01:29
maddlerjon1012: no... up to 2GB01:29
maddlerI think I'm going to buy 2x4GB tomorrow... :D01:29
jon1012maddler: so kernel upgrade could fix it ?01:29
maddlerthat's what here we call: "faccio lo sborone"01:29
jon1012maddler: or it's hardware limits ?01:29
Jaffamaddler: thanks01:29
maddlerjon1012: I really don't now...01:30
gpdmaddler: i have 2.29 in my map repo and it is working - what's the diff?01:30
mitchelocthe maemo mapper doesn't have an official os 2007 version?01:30
jon1012ok :)01:30
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maddlerJaffa: give me your address... I have a spare 128MB card now :DDDDDD01:30
timelessi just gave away a 128mb card01:30
maddlermitcheloc: not as of now... the 2006 seems to work perfectly btw...01:30
timelessbut i have spare 256mb and 512mb cards too :)01:30
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mitchelocis there a repo url for the garage  site?01:30
gpdmaddler: support for SDHC is almost in 2.6.21 - don't you want to wait for 8G cards?01:30
maddlerI have some 3x64MB and 2x128MB01:31
mitchelocmaddler: okay, trying it now01:31
maddlerand I'm gonna have a spare 1GB as well :D01:31
maddlergpd: DOH!!!01:31
maddlerok... I'm going to buy only 1x4GB :D01:31
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Jaffamaddler: I've got a 2GB SD card on order (cheap, and thought I'd let others fully shake out the SDHC issues) and the 128MB card which shipped with it will be fine internally for now, thanks :)01:31
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gpdJaffa: wrt scummvm -- any serious answers?01:33
maddlernice... gtalk works nice as shared clipboard... :D01:33
* Aleksandyr managed to entirely forget the whole dual-card-slot thing, and needs to place some orders.01:33
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maddleramong my laptop and N800 :D01:33
Jaffagpd: I've not tried it, TBH01:33
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gpdscummvm seems nice - and there are freeware games available - in contrast to the 'slightly sketchy' xmaeme stuff01:34
jtramitcheloc: this is my evdo setup - it gives me almost ubiquitous connectivity in my country
mitchelocurl for the maestro minstral extras repo?01:35
mitchelocjtra: very nice, is that a cell phone (blue) or just modem?01:36
mitcheloci'm making a stomp box for my car01:36
jtrait usb modem - Anydata ADU E100H01:36
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jtrait is01:36
maddlermaemo-mapper working! :D01:37
maddleruri for sat maps:
JaffaBit unfun without a GPS/search function, but should be good enough for me tomorrow01:38
jtracdma2000 ev-do operating at 450Mhz01:38
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jon1012someone know if abiword was ported to it2006 ?01:40
JaffaIt was.01:40
jon1012I know there was a port for it200501:40
jon1012oh, got some url ? :)01:40
Jaffaaleksandyr's been doing some more work on it recently.01:40
konfoogpd scummvm is great01:40
konfoojust the right kind of game config for the 770/80001:40
gpdkonfoo: right click?01:41
c0ffeealthough the 770 wasn't quick enough to play the intro of mi301:41
konfoogpd: hotkey? dont recall01:41
maddlerthat would be nice to get hybrid maps on mapper :D01:41
c0ffeei thought abiword integrated hildon support upstream01:42
maddleroh... jaffa... you said there was an xml file to be modified in order to have the BT automatically switched on after a reboot... right? ;)01:42
anothy_xjtra: what operator do you have that setup running on?01:42
dwdJaffa: Could you do me a favour? Look what OpenSSL version the N800 has?01:44
Jaffamaddler: well, there's /etc/systemui/systemui.xml which has a "Soft poweroff" commented out.01:44
maddlerJaffa: you tried already? :)01:44
gpd <-- tested on my N80001:45
Jaffadwd: might help01:45
Jaffamaddler: I've not rebooted, but the soft poweroff maintained a WLAN connection01:45
maddlerweird... N800 has tcp port 6000 wide open... :)01:45
jtralocal in Czech Republic - it has been acquired by Telefonica about a year ago, but this setup with 450MHz which was used when frequencies were abandoned by NMT analog voice phones, is probably avaiable only here01:46
dwdJaffa: Ah, 0.9.7. Boo!01:46
anothy_xyeah, i imagine. just curious.01:46
jtrabut that Anydata modem has versions for normal cdma evdo frequencies too, I guess01:46
mitchelocjtra: i have a pcmcia evdo rev A modem :)01:47
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mitchelocmaddler: i'm trying to install the mapper, but it says it's missing some packages, how do i enable it?01:47
maddlergpd: great!!!01:47
anothy_xso do i, but i no longer have a pcmcia slot.01:47
maddlermitcheloc: I used apt-get from commandline to get libxua001:47
gpdsome of those debs don't run fullscreen, scummvm you need to run from xterm01:48
mitchelocmaddler: "apt-get install libxua0" ?01:48
gpdJaffa: mcrypt and mtr-tiny i built using MUD -- cp cal.xml -> mtr-tiny.xml; ../mud build mtr-tiny etc.01:49
JaffaCan the scumm games be installed on the card, rather than internal flash?01:49
gpdJaffa: yes - it prompts you for location01:49
konfoojaffa mine were01:49
maddlermitcheloc: right01:49
gpdJaffa: this will be useful since the audio ones are 250M+01:49
Jaffagpd: cool, feel free to send the xml (yes, even though it's trivial) and I'll include them in the "big upload" and add your name to AUTHORS.01:49
JaffaRight, bed time.01:49
gpdJaffa: when you say send - do you mean via svn?01:50
gpdor to the mailing list?01:50
jon1012good night everybody01:50
jtramitcheloc: there is rev 0 only here01:50
maddlerJaffa: noway... BT still off...01:50
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Jaffagpd: mailing list current best preferred way. At some point I'll switch to using the bug tracker, but I'm also happy to give out svn access (look at keesj)01:50
minra_i'm too stupid to port uqm to 77001:50
mitchelocJaffa: what project is yours?01:51
ferencAaronL2, Tak: pls don't wait for the new extras queue, i dont have energy to do it tonight.01:51
maddlergpd: fbreader -> 40401:51
Jaffamitcheloc: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org01:51
ferenclets talk about it tomorrow again.01:51
gpdmaddler: yes - i removed it -- there is a better one01:51
maddleroh... ok...01:52
maddlerdrop me a line when you are done...01:52
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gpdmaddler: pretty much done -- just removed a couple that i upgraded from elsewhere01:52
gpdmaddler: pool/user/f/fbreader-maemo2/fbreader-maemo2_0.7.4s-1_armel.deb01:53
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gpdnot sure --- apt-cache isn't telling01:54
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maddleroh... great...01:56
revhey, what's the deal with youtube? i see it works now on the N800- is it going to be working (via flash in opera, not using a downloader and FLV player) on the 770 anytime soon?01:56
maddlerrev: not soon I'd say...01:57
revwhat's the deal? i mean, why not soon?01:57
revis the software on the N800 not going to find its way to the 77001:57
Aleksandyrrev, pretty mcuh01:58
rev... but why not?01:58
maddlerlicensing problems with Opera and Adobe01:58
Aleksandyrrev, licensing and incompatibility, or so I've heard. Check Ari Jaaksi's blog01:58
gpdmaddler: php.tar and lighttpd.tar also on there - untar to /usr/local ;)01:58
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konfoophp for the n800? :)01:59
gpdkonfoo: yes - i compiled it last week -- works quite well01:59
konfooyou sir deserve a round of drinks01:59
gpdkonfoo: playing around with dokuwiki - want to get drupal running - awaiting sqlite patch for drupal :)01:59
revAleksandyr: well, bugger... that's very disappointing. the sort of thing that would not be worth buying an N800 over, but it would be enough to sour me on purchasing anything from nokia again, if that's how they support their devices... oh well. thanks for the info02:00
konfoogpd: whats the url for the php binaries?02:01
maddlerthere = mawhrin or grahams?02:01
gpd <- in there (mislabel!)02:02
konfooah danke02:02
gpdkonfoo: still work to do on it obviously but worked in some basic tests with thttpd and lighttpd and from cli02:02
konfoogpd: i am using a php script to wrapper a satellite/multicast receiver app that runs on the 770, soon 800.. this will help a bunch :)02:03
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maddlergpd: you tested httpd+php on N800?02:05
gpdkonfoo: wow that is a lot of acronyms!02:05
konfoogpd: haha yes02:05
gpdmaddler: yes - see the irc logs for test results02:06
konfoogpd: this is basically handy for sending data over a connection like a satellite where there is no ack-nack for packets, and the client must know how to create the file and recover missing packets02:06
* gpd nods wisely :)02:07
mitchelocback... an httpd daemon would be a nice compliment, especially if you can control everything on the n80002:07
maddlergpd: quicly: is it "usable"? :)02:07
gpdmaddler: tested it with dokuwiki, phpinfo(), a small test php script that showed about 10x slower that my VPS.02:08
gpdie. for single user - yes02:08
mitchelocsoemthing is wrong with my n8 though, i can't find xterm on it anymore02:08
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mitchelocah the firmware update killed the installed apps, i'm forcing the package manager to refresh the sources list and reinstall everything02:10
inzsgt-puzzles in maemo-hackers repository!02:10
inzThe games that require right button don't work though (pattern, tents at least)02:11
maddlergpd: ok... that's a good start... I'll play with it...02:11
maddlerbtw... if it already was nice to read an ebbok on 770...02:11
maddlerthe better screen on N800... wow!!! Reading it's a pleasure!!!02:12
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gpdinz: very cool -- just playing cube02:15
maddlergpd: is not showing accented chars... :(02:15
gpdmaddler: ? php?02:15
maddlersorry... :D02:15
gpdinz: failed to go fullscreen: cube: midend.c:738: midend_redraw: Assertion `me->dir != 0' failed.02:15
maddlerI only use html entites :D02:16
maddler(with php/html)02:16
gpdinz: ooh - Net -- highly addictive!02:17
kjetilhomaddler: the screen is improved too?  how?02:17
gpdinz: Net goes fullscreen fine02:18
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maddlerkjetilho: yup... didn't expeted that too... it's (I'd say a lot) more readable...02:19
inzgpd, weird, they all use pretty much the same code...02:19
gpdinz: ok -- might be because i ran it from ssh -- works fine from menu02:20
maddlerkjetilho: and also the feedback for touch is better...02:20
inzgpd, it seems to work until you make a move02:21
maddleron my 770 I had the feeling like there was something among the stylus and the screen... like a film or so...02:21
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* gpd puts down the crack pipe... ttyl02:22
hapthere is02:22
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inzgpd, it seems that all the "animated" games break on fullscreen after you play them02:23
nnod_was anyone able to order the n800 from europe with the discount code today?02:23
maddlernnod_: dunno... I heard some1 was experiencing some problems from US02:24
nnod_i'm getting "invalid code" when i try02:25
maddlernice... just received a refund from amazon :)02:25
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inzgpd, asserts now replaced with slightly different if clause -- it seems to fix teh issues02:29
mitchelocmaddler: i got maemo maps installed, how do i get it to download maps? i need a repo?02:31
maddleryou need to configure the URI...02:32
maddlermenu -> Maps -> Manage Repositories...02:33
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jtrasgt-puzzles is nice but it needs dedicated launcher or menu as too many items in extras menu are hard to navigate02:33
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inzjtra, I agree02:36
* mitcheloc types it in very slowly02:36
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revhey. .. anyone know how they decide to whom to send out the n800 discount codes?02:38
inzrev, has a list of criteria02:41
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mitchelocmaddler: i wonder if there is a bluetooth aaudio gateway that can be combined with the n800 and your car stereo02:44
maddlerif not buy a blue cable :D02:45
mitcheloceven cooler if you can use the microphone on the n800 for hands free calls02:45
* rev wonders if there is a place 770s should go for people buying an 80002:46
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inz*doh* why aren't I already asleep02:47
* inz wanders off02:47
mitchelocrev: i'm thinking of  reprogramming them for my mother's school, the teachers can use them to take attendance, etc02:47
inzDon't play puzzles all night.02:47
mitchelocif you need a charity case, it'll go to good use :)02:48
revmitcheloc: that'd be cool02:48
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mitchelocmaddler: found it!,8994,product:AD-42W,00.html02:49
jtramines of sgt-puzzles does not work for me, it starts with several flags on board and crashes when I step on non-flag02:50
inzjtra, yeah, me too02:50
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maddlerhmmm... could bluetooth be switched on via dbus? or... ?02:58
maddlerI mean... I'd like to avoid having to switch it on after every reboot...02:59
maddlerok... time to hit the bed here!!!03:00
maddlerI'm exahusted!03:00
maddlersee you all tomorrow! :D03:00
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mitchelocgood night!03:02
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Aleksandyrmitcheloc, as far as bluetooth, I've seen generic audio gateways that pair with your cellphone and a dongle, but this would be independent of the N800's audio system03:13
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mitchelocAleksandyr are you saying that the nokia probably won't support the audio profile?03:16
Aleksandyrmitcheloc, no, I'm saying these kits would just use the N800 through the headphone jack.03:16
Aleksandyrmitcheloc, IIRC the N800 does not have any audio profiles yet (just like the 770) although it's vaguely under development03:17
mitchelocAleksandyr: the ad-42w from nokia looks like it supports a2dp, which the nokia would have to support, right?03:17
mitchelocAleksandyr: so no built in profiles, but i assume the chips are capable enough to support it? i suppose code could be ported (not that i know how)03:18
Markovhow can i install something on my n800 if i do not have a connection to the internet...?03:19
Aleksandyrmitcheloc, the problem is that A2DP is processor-intensive and fairly nontrivial --- the solution for Linux is in the process of getting an ITOS port, but the Linux solution is fairly unstable. Odds are that it's possible but not practical.03:20
s-ndh-cMarkov: mirror the repository to a local computer?03:20
kjetilhodidn't you hear?  the n800 is an i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t  tablet :)03:20
AleksandyrMarkov, you could copy the .debs to a memory card and use the install from file option of Application Manager (at least, you can under IT2006, not sure if that was removed?)03:20
timelessmy n800 just rebooted03:21
timelessit's plugged into the charged03:21
MarkovAleksandyr, the .deb file is only 47 KB for VNC viewer03:22
Markovis that right?03:22
s-ndh-cMarkov: if you download single debs you would have to check their dependcies on your own so make sure you download all dependand packages too03:22
AleksandyrMarkov, sounds about right, yes03:23
mitchelocAleksandyr: well, i do hope someone figures it out, the a2dp profile would be ideal when in the car to connect to the car speakers03:23
AleksandyrMarkov, you might also want to look in to USB networking, although it's not quite trivial03:23
Aleksandyrmitcheloc, true, but what advantage is gained compared to an inexpensive 3.5" a2dp gateway dongle (such as the one I own ;)?03:24
mitchelocthe lack of a dongle is advantage enough :)03:24
Aleksandyrmitcheloc, factor in the (rather significant) battery drain of A2DP processing. I'm not saying the idea is without merit, mind you, it's just gonna take time ;)03:26
mitchelocAleksandyr: i was thinking of some sort of window mount combined with pluging in the n800 -- a sort of windshield mounted gps device/car computer03:26
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Markovthanks aleks, i've installed vnc... now i all i need is a connection... :)03:28
mitchelocin the meantime the headphone jack will work03:28
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Markovis there an application for optimizing video for the n800?03:31
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timelessthere's  converter/transcoder03:32
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Zer0HiTMarkov: at me?03:33
Markovno. timeless03:33
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Zer0HiTah k03:33
Markovunless you know of such an app03:33
Markovor can link me to what timeless is talking about03:34
timelessi don't have a web browser03:34
timelessmediaconverter on garage ?03:35
Markovi found it thanks03:36
Markovi hope they're kidding about no am64 support03:36
Markovbut if it's java then there shouldn't be a problem03:37
timelessi don't use it, i just have a copy of all the garage projecs in a cross reference, and know people have mentioned it03:37
Markovyep. it works like a champ03:40
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shanahi everyone04:23
shanaany maemo team guys around I can talk to about the n800 codes?04:24
shanahmmm is that a yes?04:25
shackansure dude! give me your code and I'll check it!04:26
* shackan giggles04:26
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shanashackan: and that's dudette, thank you very much ;)04:30
* shackan blushes04:30
shanawell, I guess I'll just have to be patient then :)04:31
timelesswhat do you mean n800 codes?04:32
timelessthis isn't a nintendo if you ignore the red pill, there aren't many way sto cheat04:32
shanaI mean I think I got the US code instead of an european code04:32
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shackantimeless, if you're cool enough nokia sends you a discount code to get a brand new N800 for dirt cheap money04:33
* shackan obviously isn't cool enough04:33
WillySillyshackan: I could have told you that :P04:34
shanatimeless, check the topic04:34
shackanWillySilly, thanks, I'm better off telling it myself04:35
shanaah well, I'll wait it out, it's late anyway04:35
* shana goes into lurk mode04:35
mitchelocshana: i'm in europe, if you want, i can test the code for you04:42
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* cesman has a iblue gps receiver!04:55
cesmanworks with the n800 and maemo mapper04:58
cesmanunfortunately, my bluetooth is acting flaky04:59
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gpdcesman: nice nice -- how is it?05:43
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gpd[off topic] can anyone recommend a webcam that works well with linux?05:44
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Markovhas anyone used this vm appliance for maemo dev?06:11
Markovi just finished the dl and have a bazillion files labed 7z.00#06:11
Markovdo you know what application i need to put these together?06:12
gpdMarkov: not tried it myself but i have used VMware - do you have VMware running ok and did you point it at the files?06:17
MarkovI have VM Player working06:17
Markovvmware player i mean06:17
gpd7z implies 7zip... maybe you need to unzip it first...06:18
Markovi've never heard of the 7z zip format06:18
revit isn't common06:18
gpdit is quite popular with some people - not sure why06:18
Markovhuh. well, it's nice of them to force their obscure prefrence on me :)06:19
gpdit certainly is odd that a Linux VMware image would be 7zip'd06:19
gpdbut ach 7zip reveals: p7zip - 7-Zip is a file archiver with high compression ratio06:19
Markovyeah. it actually looks pretty cool06:19
Markovi recant my previous, mildly nasty statement06:20
MilhouseMarkov - check this thread here
MilhouseIf you're on XP, all the links to 7-zip are in the thread, if not the other posts may prove useful06:22
revthe only thing i've seen come as .7z lately were snes ROMs06:29
Markovis there an emulator for mameo?06:30
Markovthat would be awesome06:30
gpdthere are many...06:30
gpdxmaeme from the channel sweetheart Tak06:30
gpdalso scummvm for adventure games06:30
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gpdxmaeme includes support for MAME, FCEU, VisualBoyAdvance06:31
revTak ported VisualBoyAdvance for me06:31
revtoo slow to play06:31
revi think the NES is the only thing decently emulated on the 770 right now06:31
revfrom what i've been told06:31
Markovi'm sorry i'm not very familiar with emulation tech06:31
gpdrev: on n800?06:31
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revgpd: i'm talking on the 770, which is slower ... though:06:32
* rev got an 800 invite! so i'll have one soon to play with06:32
gpdrev: on my n800 the NES stuff is ok - haven't got any MAME roms to work yet06:32
revgpd: i've heard NES is ok on the 770 too06:32
revonly thing i've tried is VBA, which is too slow06:32
gpdi'm not convinced the tablets are really 'gaming' machines however06:33
revwell, they're not06:33
gpdesp since the buttons are sketchy at best06:33
revthey'd be fine for the games i want to play, if the speed was there06:33
gpdscummvm would be good - so far i can't find right-click06:33
revspecifically tactical games like Advance Wars or Fire Emblem- games that are turn based, where the 770 is more than good enough06:33
revi begged tak into porting VBA for me, figuring that even if it was slow it'd be playable06:34
revbut it is really, really slow :P06:34
revbecause it's turnbased, a game like Advance WArs could be played even at half speed without issue really06:34
revit's not a platformer that requires reaction06:35
Markovhow about the buttons?06:35
Markovdo they show up on the screen?06:35
revMarkov: no, you use the nokia's buttons06:35
revMarkov: at least for the one emulator i've tried06:35
gpdwell -- in NES fceu there are onscreen A and B buttons too06:35
Markovcan you flip the screen upside down?06:36
revnot w/ BA06:36
rever VBA06:36
Markovi think i'm better w/ my dominant right hand06:36
* gpd receives brando screen protector in mail several days ago and doesn't notice06:37
revgpd: d'oh!06:38
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* gpd attempts to find killer app to port to N80006:38
mitchelocgpd: windows06:39
mitcheloc(or a even better an iax client)06:39
gpdunfortunately i think the 'killer app' would be firefox and an unlimited data plan06:43
mitchelociphone? hah06:44
mitchelocopera does work pretty damn well06:44
gpdor the even more vaporous 'google tablet'06:44
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gpdwell - but could do better... eg. adblock06:44
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mitchelocgpd: while the nokia is good, the killer difference google would have is a slight different form factor and #1 a better interface06:45
gpdi still think being online *all* the time is unrealistic - so good offline->online sync is essential06:47
mitchelocin my mind why the ipod is so big, and google is that it all seems to come down to interface06:48
gpda local httpd that could run webmail / calendar and would sync up on connect would be great06:48
mitchelochave it wirelessly sync to the computer? :)06:49
solemanhey..anyone here use fbreader? what's the author (sort key) for?06:50
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philiplHas a definitive solution emerged to the nokia usa website rejecting orders?06:52
pahartikgpd: how about well integrated OBEX support for GPE as "killer application"?06:52
mitchelocphilipl: can you get it from a compusa? that is how i purchased mine06:53
soleblazeit it just rejecting random people?06:53
philiplWell, with the discount codes. :-P06:53
soleblazesomeone said they got through06:53
Markovphilipl: didn't reject my order06:53
Markovor it did over the weekend06:53
soleblazeMarkov: you in the EU?06:54
Markovthey were "moving to a new superl locatino"06:54
Markovno i'm in the USA06:54
soleblazeoh, i take it you didn't use the dev discount code06:54
soleblazeor maybe i'm not following right06:54
Markovheh. no, why do you have one for me :)06:54
soleblazelol, nos orry06:54
mitchelocdoes anyone know where i can get the rdesktop port to the n800?06:55
soleblazeis there an rdesktop port to the n800?06:56
soleblazethe guy who did the xp thing mentioned that he had to flash his 770 with 2005 in order to use rdesktop06:56
mitcheloci saw mention of it on the internettablettalk forums06:56
mitchelochowever, it was mentioned in the context of the 770 :(06:59
gpdsoleblaze: i am attempting to build rdesktop for bora now07:02
soleblazeoo, interesting.07:02's gonna take me awhiel to get used to this ebook program though (fbreader)07:03
gpdsoleblaze: <-- in there07:03
gpdno idea if it will work -- just recompiled the source from the 2006 App Catalogue07:03
soleblazeI'll let mitcheloc try it out lol07:04
mitchelocgpd: sweet! i'm on it07:05
soleblazehm..wonder when touch screen scrolling will work on the fbreader for n800..i'll have to subscribe to a mailing list to keep tabs07:07
mitchelochmm, i can't seem to specifiy the rdesktop port07:14
mitchelocgpd: does this rdesktop version have a built in UI?07:15
mitcheloci mean, apparently it does... somethings up, i can't specifiy port..07:15
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kulvesoleblaze: there's a control panel plugin for it07:21
soleblazeah, I see it now. thanks07:22
cesmananyone have any idea as to why I can no longer dial up via my phone?07:25
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cesmanthe n800 can see the phonw via bluetooth, however it just won't dial07:25
cesmanit use to work like a champ07:25
cesmanIt won't even show my connection in the connection manager07:26
cesmanon occassion, it will connect to the phone and dial out, but I cannot figure out why it is'07:26
cesmanisn't working now07:26
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[mbm]cesman: have you tried disabling/reenabling bluetooth or rebooting just to make sure bluetooth support hasn't somehow crashed?07:27
cesmanyes, I have07:28
cesmanI seem to be having lots of trouble w/ bluetooth07:28
cesmansomethings, I have to reboot in order to use it07:28
tigertwhich phone?07:28
* [mbm] hasn't tried bluetooth support yet but wifi occasionally has similar issues07:29
cesmanrazr v3m07:29
tigertcesman: does the phone try to connect?07:30
cesmanis there a default lock code on the n800?07:30
cesmantigert: no07:30
cesmanI know I didn't set one and it is asking for one07:30
[mbm]cesman: 12345 (see manual)07:30
tigertmy phone needs reboots and toggling bluetooth on/off sometimes07:30
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cesman[mbm]: thanks07:31
tigertto make things work.07:31
cesmanguess I need to read more of the pdf07:31
cesmanI just restored the defaults07:33
cesmanafter enabling bluetooth and click ok, the device just stared back at me07:34
cesmannow, the window is gone but no icon07:34
cesmanlooks like control panel has stopped responding now...07:35
[mbm]heh fun07:40
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soleblazeheh..yeah..the n800 is the flakest linux based device I've ever messed with.  (I never touched the 770)07:42
soleblazespeaking of the n800..I jkust pligged it into the charger 3 minutes ago07:43
soleblazeand it looks like It just reboot itself07:43
soleblazeer plugged..07:43
soleblazeat least it didn't do the reboot loop (It's done that 3 times so far)07:44
gpdsoleblaze: it does seem a little strange - hopefully some patches will fix it07:46
gpdlack of /var/log/syslog doesn't help for diagnosing problems07:47
[mbm]gpd: well, there's a /var/lib/dsme/stats to show why it rebooted07:51
* soleblaze looks at it07:51
[mbm]and syslog can be installed, just that you probably don't want the logs constantly writing to the flash07:51
[mbm]anyone else notice dropbear being flakey?07:52
cesmangood night folks07:52
* cesman crawls into bed frustrated :/07:52
soleblaze/usr/bin/maemo_af_desktop  : 1 *07:53
gpdhmm I have a bunch of stuff in lifeguard_res*07:55
gpd[mbm]: are those numbers  the number of restarts caused by that program?07:55
Markovwhat's the difference between mame maeme and fceu???08:00
gpdmame is multiple arcade emulator,08:00
gpdmaeme is a frontent to various emulators08:00
gpdfceu is a NES emulator08:00
Markovso mame runs only from the cmd line?08:02
gpdi think so -- then there is xmame!08:02
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Markovwhat's that?08:03
vittorioi would so like to have a c64 emulator08:04
gpdactually a lot of the c64 stuff was just arcade games ported... so MAME covers many of those08:04
Markovi mean what's xmame? vs xmaeme?08:04
gpdof course... not all08:04
gpdMarkov: no clue really -0- i think xmame is a frontend for mame -- but xmaeme is multiple--- google will know better than me (or Tak)08:05
gpdParadroid would be very cool however :)08:06
vittorioill try mame, but it would be cool to play the original c64 games. cause for nostalgia08:06
gpdI still have my Amiga 500 in a cupboard !08:06
vittorioparadroid rocked!08:06
gpdI sold my c64 however - fool08:07
vittoriomy amiga 500 is in the loft08:07
gpdyou can get a C64 joystick that plugs into the TV that has many old games08:07
gpdthe joystick being the *critical* component of course08:07
vittorioyeah, a friend of mine has that, its cool08:08
vittorioi already had frodo running on 770 but then stopped porting08:08
gpdthings like Rainbow Warriors were just Arcade games though -08:08
keesjwhat was the performance of frodo on the 770?08:09
vittorioi only had the blue basic screen (this was >200%)08:10
vittoriogames would be less08:10
gpdis frodo > vice?  never tried it08:10
vittoriovice should be better08:11
vittoriowhats up with ?08:11
vittorioi made a screenshot08:11
gpd[mbm]: so after echo standby > /sys/power/state I get 'charger' in /proc/bootreason08:13
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Markovi really need a wireless router08:17
* gpd <3 unison08:19
[mbm]gpd: that's because if you leave it in standby for >30 seconds it somehow turns off, and since you have the charger connected, it turns back on to start charging08:21
[mbm]Markov: shameless plug but have you heard about openwrt?08:21
gpd[mbm]: ahha --- so not helpful :( no update on why it reboots then?08:21
Markov[mbm]: no what's openwrt?08:22
[mbm]gpd: probably a watchdog, but I haven't figured out which08:22
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[mbm]Markov: .. linux distribution for cheap home routers08:23
* gpd grumbles that his is too cheap for openwrt 08:23
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Markovwhat can i do with openwrt that i cannot do with the stock firmware?08:26
Markovwhat does the stock firmware do anyway?08:26
Markovyeah. what is software doing on the router?08:26
[mbm]well, typical home router has wifi, 4 lan ports and a wan port, then a cheap web interface to configure it08:27
[mbm]and you can barely do anything with it08:27
[mbm]you load openwrt and suddenly it's a mini linux server, fully configurable08:28
gpdwhat sort of storage / ram do they have then?08:28
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[mbm]you can customize the firewall, set the wifi into weird client/bridged modes, offload some network services to the router ..08:29
[mbm]gpd: typically 4M of flash and 16M of ram, although some have 8M flash 32M ram, and may even have usb interfaces to attach a usb drive08:29
Markovwell, first i have to get the router. then i'll set it up w/ the crappy firmware. then i'll see if i need openwrt08:30
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gpd <-- wow08:30
[mbm]avoid the devices that use vxworks as their os08:30
gpdyou can run lighttpd on it!08:30
[mbm]gpd: I've heard of small php webservers, irc servers, mail servers ..08:31
gpdnow if only my isp didn't block port 80...08:31
[mbm]obviously a router with 4M flash and 16M ram doesn't exactly scale well when you start talking the hundreds or thousands of users08:31
gpd[mbm]: most of those packages must be 'light' - so would probably do well on the tablets08:32
gpdwhat is .ipk ?08:32
[mbm]gpd: mini .deb file08:32
[mbm]ipkg is a mini dpkg08:32
gpdi see - interesting stuff08:33
gpdthe slug is also something i keep meaning to look into08:33
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[mbm]we don't exactly have the luxury of space so I've had to optimize for size08:33
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[mbm]gpd: yeah, the slug guys are starting to switch over to openwrt and working with the openwrt developers08:33
gpd[mbm]: so you are the main man?08:33
[mbm]I suppose08:33
* gpd bows08:33
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keesjipgk works nicely08:34
myren_[mbm] is one of the best hardware hackers on the project, no doubt.08:34
[mbm]been playing with my n800 thinking about how openwrt stuff would inetegrate08:34
gpdthe N800 must feel like a powerful machine in comparison! :)08:34
myren_well, i gotta point out, th n800 actually just runs apt.08:34
keesjyes  ,they have the http server php stuff , more server related software08:35
[mbm]gpd: sure, but it also feels bloated when you've edalt with massive optimizations to squeze every resource08:35
[mbm]myren_: yeah, I noticed08:35
[mbm]hmm think I might need to connect a serial cable to my n800 to see why it doesn't stay in standby08:36
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[mbm]shame they didn't use a standard connector08:37
myren_gpd: the main difference with the n800 is having a screen.  :)08:37
gpdmyren_: luxury!08:37
[mbm]myren_: major advantage, you don't know how annoying it is to hear "it doesn't boot, any idea what's wrong with it?"08:37
[mbm]not like you san ask them "well what does it show on the screen?"08:38
myren_right right08:38
myren_at least when something goes wrong the units not completely isolated08:38
Markovhey. in what ways is the mplayer port better then the built int media player for n800?08:39
myren_and htose mother fuckers without serial or jtag08:39
[mbm]Markov: support for more file types08:39
[mbm]myren_: honestly serial and jtag are so damn easy I don't understand why more people don't08:39
myren_[mbm]: the freaky voltages08:40
[mbm]myren_: jtag is "buy 4 resistors"08:40
tigertdamn. the bus broke down08:40
[mbm]pretty damn simple08:40
myren_who the fuck can find a 0 - +3.3v serial?08:40
[mbm]and serial is "go buy a cellphone data transfer cable"08:40
myren_i could never find one08:40
[mbm]really? almost every cellphone these days is either usb or serial08:41
myren_i just made damned sure the first wrt i bought got installed properly, and used picocom or microcom with that unit from then on.08:41
[mbm]the serial ones are pretty easy to spot since the data cable has a large box in it for the serial chip08:41
myren_yeah but i never knew what voltage level the serial was going to be08:41
[mbm]another trick is that if you have two 3.3v serial devices you can just wire them together and skip all the conversions and chips08:42
myren_they dont exactly advertise that shit08:42
myren_yeah thats waht i did08:42
[mbm]myren_: cellphones aren't going to be 12v serial, they'll be 3.3v08:42
myren_drilled a hole in the wrt and soldered a floppy power connector to the board08:42
[mbm]haven't looked but I suspect the n800 has a 3.3v serial also08:42
myren_i was thinking there'd be +-5v ones, 0-5v ones, +-3v ones08:43
myren_god knows what else08:43
[mbm]3.3v is the most common voltage in electronics08:43
myren_probably not fatal to have just picked up three or four adapters at radio shack and returned those that did not work08:43
[mbm]especially when you're talking low power embeded devices08:44
myren_yeah 3.3v is pretty standard fair08:44
myren_standard fare?08:44
myren_i've got like 12 units in the building now, so theres 3.3v serial EVERYWHERE08:44
[mbm]yeah, I used to get the cables at radioshack, confuses the hell out of them08:44
[mbm]"I need a cellphone serial cable" "sure, which phone do you have?" "umm.."08:45
myren_right.  :)08:45
[mbm]or you find the cable yourself and at checkout they always like to ask you which phone as a confirmation08:45
* gpd runs streamtuner from mistral on n80008:46
[mbm]always just used to look for the futuredial cables with the large box in the center08:46
[mbm]since I knew those had a pl2303 chip and would work with linux08:46
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mitchelocgpd: i never got the rdesktop to work, though it loads up, i think there might be a port issue, i'll change the firewall in a bit08:50
gpdmitcheloc: yeah - i have no idea - i am just able to compile things but have no idea what needs to be done if they don't 'just work'08:51
myren_i always wonder what hardware isnt getting utilized with projects like openwrt, all the various onboard processors not being used08:52
[mbm]myren_: you can bet that if we find specs for the chips we'll try to find a use for them08:52
mitcheloci read that you can x-forward to the n800 an x11 app, does it need a seperate x-server or the one installed?08:53
[mbm]myren_: figured out a fun trick a few months back that let me see which mac addresses were used on which ports08:53
[mbm]mitcheloc: you can just set the DISPLAY variable08:54
[mbm](assuming the x server on your desktop allows remote connections -- most distros block it)08:54
mitcheloc[mbm]: remote machine to n800, not n800 to remote machine08:56
mitcheloci'd have to enable the x server on the n800 to allow remote connections08:56
[mbm]the n800 already runs an x server08:56
[mbm]either way it's just a matter of setting the permissions and DISPLAY08:57
mitcheloci'm sshing in right now :)08:59
[mbm]mitcheloc: just a hint, the x server on the n800 normally blocks connections; one simple way to get around the block is as follows: ssh root@n800 -L 6002:, then after logging into your n800 open a new terminal on your desktop and try "export DISPLAY=:2; xhost +"09:02
[mbm]that should enable remote x11 connections to your n800, so then you can do "export DISPLAY=n800:0" and run your app09:02
[mbm](the ssh bit is just an extra step since I haven't see xhost compiled for the n800 yet)09:03
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mitchelocthis would be an easy way to run any app not compiled for the n80009:12
gpdapps are dead - long live ajax!09:13
* gpd runs09:13
[mbm]x11 sucks as a network protocol09:13
[mbm]you'll find that your apps run much slower just because they're run over the network09:13
mitchelocgpd: i agree with most of that -- problem is i'm trying to dev a webapp but the browser scales it wrong09:14
[mbm]gpd: nothing more sickening then a pastel colored box with rounded corners and alpha blending09:14
mitcheloci had to set 70pt font for it to look normal, is there a way to "unscale it"?09:15
[mbm]what to look normal?09:15
mitchelocthe way the browser renders the web page09:16
[mbm]the builtin browser has zoom buttons09:16
mitcheloc[mbm]: i know tha tisn't what i need though09:17
[mbm]must be some broken webpage09:17
mitchelocno, the font is rendered differently, for example a 10pt fon't on a computer looks like a 4pt font on the n80009:18
[mbm]everything on the n800 is scaled down for the screen size09:19
jonnylambdwd: hey again. what exact error message did you receive when entering your code on the Nokia site?09:21
Robot101[mbm]: actually, all of the fonts and icons are huge because the resolution's so high :)09:21
Robot101[mbm]: otherwise everything would be teensy-weensy on screen09:21
r0773nhow do you set colors in the terminal?09:22
[mbm]Robot101: that's more or less what I was saying09:22
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wumpusyeah the resolution is really incredibly high09:23
wumpustry displaying 800x480 window  on your normal screen09:23
[mbm]I meant that if you rendered a font in physical 10pt it would take up so much space you'd hardly fit anything on the screen09:23
[mbm]hmm browser's alpha blending sucks09:24
[mbm]seeing color banding all over the openwrt page09:24
[mbm]which is odd on solid colors09:25
mitcheloc[mbm] exactly, that scaling is brilliant, but i want a full screen web app -- like a keypad in html09:25
mitcheloci'll try this out tomorrow -- got to hit the sack09:25
[mbm]mitcheloc: umm.. what's stopping you? hit the fullscreen button and then write a page to display some buttons and javascript them to do something09:26
* [mbm] failing to see where this conversation is going09:26
mitcheloc[mbm]: that's exactly what i'm going to do, was just wondering if there was an option to counter the built in scaling09:27
zuhThe browser scaling is nasty, since it doesn't work for pages like that have the layout fitted to width of the page. The browser simply grows the font size which works quite the opposite (more space to the sidebar) from the desired effect (more on-screen space for the actual content)09:28
[mbm]the zoom buttons do it to some extent09:28
[mbm]zuh: yep09:29
mitcheloczuh, i'll look at that web design, i've got to run, thanks guys!09:29
zuhIMO it should also increase the canvas size when zooming09:29
keesjzooming should start by removing the banners and ads, and then switch text only09:32
[mbm]speaking of which, I'd love to know how to get it to block ads09:33
wumpusyeah pages with ads are very annoying on n800, too easy to accidentally click on them09:33
keesjI just don't like it where I have to horizontally zoom. but I do it for slashdot because I am to lazy to login09:33
|tbb|an addblocker like on firefox where nice for the n7/809:34
tigerti guess one could use ad-blocking local proxy09:34
keesjfunny the behavior of the home button changed09:34
tigertthat would work for the opera09:34
keesjit does not bring me back home09:34
tigertkeesj, hold it down. we changed it yea09:34
[mbm]heh.. just tried running gimp remotely over x11 .. annoyingly it displays all the windows stretched to fill the screen09:34
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tigertmbm, yes. because maemo has no movable windows09:35
[mbm]yeah I know .. still "usable" but barely09:35
tigertthe window manager does everything but dialogs fullscreen09:35
keesj(asking again) how can I run xnest on the nokia?09:36
[mbm]also the onscreen keyboard isn't popping up09:36
tigertit doesnt make much sense to drag windows around in a handheld09:36
[mbm]tigert: sure, but for things like gimp it'd be nice if the toolbox could be fixed to one side of the screen like a toolbar09:37
[mbm]instead of having to switch between windows constantly09:37
tigertyeah. but seriously, gimp wants a real computer :)09:38
[mbm]well, the builtin sketch applet sucks09:39
tigertwhat would be sweet is if some dialog was in the n800 screen09:39
keesjand even on the "real" computer the windows are pretty annoying IMHO09:39
[mbm]tigert: you could run x2x and use the n800 as a tablet09:39
tigertlets not get too gimp ui discussion here =)09:39
[mbm]hmm I suppose you're the same tigert from gimp?09:39
tigerttheres tuxpaint for 770 ;)09:40
tigertyes, the same09:40
tigertand gnome09:40
tigerthm. as a completely offtopic,09:40
* [mbm] rembers the old site09:40
tigertdoes anyone know if one can set a screen to start as rotated-left in xorg.conf?09:41
[mbm]the xrandr extension sort of works09:42
keesjexept for the dri kinda stuff09:43
[mbm]yeah, the above picture shows the xv is in the wrong location09:43
[mbm]and the touchscreen doesn't seem to rotate properly09:43
keesjare you a openwrt developer?09:44
[mbm]keesj: yes09:44
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keesjI run midge on my edimax.09:45
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[mbm]hmm doesn't look like xdamage is working after randr09:46
keesjI would be very interested in your opinion on the mud builder,09:46
[mbm]screen isn't redrawing correctly09:46
gpdthere is also horizon for drawing/painting stuff09:47
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[mbm]hmm needs glx extensions *grin*09:49
* [mbm] would love to have google earth and a gps on an n80009:50
kulve[mbm]: there's that manual update thing in X..09:50
gpdwell maemo-mapper with bt gps is essentially that...09:50
[mbm]kulve: ?09:50
kulveand I'm pretty sure google earth takes *way* much more rendering power that the device has..09:50
[mbm]gpd: minus the 3d zoom in09:50
keesjmbm I would really like to play with that openvg stuff09:50
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keesjthe power of the tablet is the network , why not do remove stuff?09:51
[mbm]kulve: yeah, see above screenshot; I know how to rotate the display09:51
kulvethat "CONFIG_FB_OMAP_MANUAL_UPDATE" gets confused if the display is rotated09:51
kulve[mbm]: I know you do, but did you read the stuff on the blog ;)09:51
[mbm]kulve: well, there's a difference between rotating the x server and rotaintg the fb it's running on09:52
[mbm]rotating the fb would probably work better but isn't as easy to pull off09:52
JaffaMorning all09:52
gpdNight all09:52
c0ffeeaccording to the tracking page, my n800 is waiting at work for me :)09:53
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* gpd realizes he is in the wrong timezone /me wanders off09:53
zuh[mbm]: The x server "manually" tells the fb which parts to update, but it doesn't take the rotation into account (or this is my understanding of the issue)09:54
[mbm]zuh: right09:54
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keesjone_red_eye, nice screen shot , did you have to tweak x-chat or is that all part of the theme?10:03
one_red_eyechanged the colors10:05
one_red_eyeforeground and background10:05
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Piotrasanyone knows if libxslt is to be ported to maemo 3 ?10:22
Piotrasor should I use thhis from 2.1 ?10:27
kulveif there's one in 2.1, it shouldn't be a big deal to compile it for 3.010:28
JaffaThe 2.1 version should work probably without recompilation10:28
Piotrasok , thanks10:30
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tigerthi piotras. got the device it seems ;)10:37
Piotrashi tigert :) yes and I try build libgda first ( with xml and sqlite support only  though )10:44
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zbenjaminhello @ all10:53
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tigertpiotras, MDK was the guy you videochatted with btw.11:01
Piotrasdzień dobry MDK :)11:02
tigerthe is not reading this right now though11:02
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tigertbut i will let him know. we are in a meeting currently ;)11:04
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jtraanybody keen to try my new game?
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bedboihi there11:19
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AD-N770good morning11:26
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maddler'morning al!11:56
lelemorning maddler11:57
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desrtanyone know how well-supported kexec is on the armle?12:01
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maddlerany clue of what metalayer-crawl is?12:09
maddlerit'e heating CPU as hell...12:10
kulveDescription: Metalayer Crawler Daemon Crawler is a program that is always running on the background. The purpose of the program is to collect information about the comings and goings of media files in the system. The metadata of media files is automatically extracted using libmetalayer for other applications to use.12:11
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pyhimysAnyone using os x?12:12
pyhimysIs there a nice way to unmount n800?12:12
pyhimysWhen using the the finder's eject button it just remounts right again12:13
pyhimysThat is using the usb cable12:14
paulphi, is this the right place to ask how to get my 770 to connect to WLAN?12:14
Piotrasanyone had problems with osso-xterm ?12:14
Piotrasmaemo_af_desktop[1223]: We could not read lowmem page stats.12:14
Piotrasexecl: No such file or directory12:14
bergiepyhimys: I was wondering about the same thing, ping me if you figure it out12:15
pyhimysbergie: so far i have just used an external memorycard reader12:15
paulpwhen i set it up i get bytes received going up in the connection manager but 0 bytes sent12:15
paulpis there a way of loading packages using just usb so i can at least get xterm on there?12:19
maddlerkulve: so... it looks like I could kill it if I don't use "media" files.12:21
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bergiepyhimys: the auto-remounting problem caused errors on OS X, but did seem to copy everything correctly12:22
kulvemaddler: I would guess so. I don't know anything else about the daemon..12:23
maddlerhehe... looks like we will discover soon :D12:23
maddlerNokia-N800-51:/etc/init.d# uptime 11:24:34 up 5 min, load average: 2.14, 1.54, 0.6812:26
maddlerit's very CPU intensive...12:26
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kulvethe load avg. doesn't actually tell how much something uses your cpu..?12:28
maddlerbut top is... :)12:28
maddlermetalayer-crawler is alwas > 50%12:28
kulveI think I won't be needed that service since the I don't like the built-in media player either..12:29
maddlermumble... maybe renicing it...12:29
maddlerkulve: and anyway I'm not exchanging media *all the time*...12:29
maddlerI think it's wiser to launch metalayer stuff right before loading some new content to the device...12:30
kulveit should be idle most of the time and just check for stuff after inotify from kernel or something..12:30
suihkulokkiafaik it uses inotify already12:31
zuhmaddler: I think I got it to chomp CPU too by giving it some botched file, so you might want to just restart it and see what happens12:32
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konttoripyhimys: at least my 770 unmounts nicely. I can report more when my N800 arrives at 2pm12:34
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maddlerzuh: trying now...12:37
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hapso true :)12:37
haproot@mailserver:~# would have been fine too12:37
maddlerzuh: no way... still CPU consuming...12:38
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zuhmaddler: maybe you have a corrupted file somewhere and it busyloops with it...12:46
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maddlerzuh: dunno...13:05
maddlerzuh: do you ahve N800?13:06
zuhIn about two hours, yes :)13:06
zuhBut I have the company's device to play with13:06
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JussiPYay! My N800 was just delivered.13:12
X-FadeOh man, this made me laugh :)
X-FadeCheckout the movie..13:12
_follower_ X-Fade: :-O what is she *on*??13:14
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_follower_X-Fade: for that matter, would you buy a used car from that guy?13:15
X-FadeHehe, I would feel ripped off before even buying the thing.13:16
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bedboi_hi there.13:19
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konttoriX-Fade: those guys make it sound like N800 is a GSM phone. Like so weird13:29
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X-FadeYeah, I actually think that they think it is a GSM :)13:32
lardmanAargh, modal dialog from Opera (opening Accu-weather site) asking me if I want to stop the script as it's slowing things down, but clicking on the yes or No does nothing13:34
lardmanAh, Flash player not Opera, but via opera13:34
lardmanAnd system model to boot!13:35
lardman~lart Flash13:35
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lardmanPhew, power button > Offline mode killed it13:37
mitcheloctight vnc rules!13:40
mitcheloc(Through the n800)13:40
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bedboibot some problems using my discount code... the transaction fails (the website tells me that my bank has denied the transaction)13:50
bedboitoo bad13:50
shanabedboi: check if you've not selected mastercard instead of visa... :p13:51
tigertsend mail to quim13:52
tigertif you have problem with the codes13:52
lardmanshana: If you've not got one you mean? Worked fine with my Mastercard13:52
X-FadeHad no problems with my Mastercard.13:53
tigertor just call the store and sort it out13:53
|tbb|the address have to be the same which the card is registered too13:53
|tbb|also the owner have to be the same13:53
|tbb|the bank can could denied it if that isnt so13:54
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bedboishana: i've used visa :)13:55
bedboitigert: the code is accepted13:55
tigertok. call the store then?13:56
bedboilet's try to change the address13:56
bedboii called the store, and said to ask to my bank13:56
* booiiing dances around "my n800 arrived" :D13:56
tigertok. hopefully things work out13:57
tigertcould be the address. many webstores only deliver to billing address13:57
bedboii'll try13:57
* bedboi crosses fingres13:58
bedboitoo much crossed13:58
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bedboino luck13:59
bedboistill problems13:59
bedboiis there some italian  here that used postepay cards to purchase?13:59
shanalardman: I got one, it's just that some peeps forgot that the default selection is mastercard instead of visa14:00
lardmanshana: Yep, that;s what I thought you meant14:00
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shanabedboi: if you're using some kind of temporary card number service, it might not work14:03
shanabedboi: we have that too here, no dice, had to use the real one :p14:03
bedboino no. the card is a prepaid Visa14:04
bedboithe number is fixed14:04
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bedboiit has validity and such14:04
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bedboii used that card to get n77014:04
shanamy service is a sort of prepaid too, validity and such, only it gives you a temporary number with 1 month validity and a limit of purchase to use on the net14:05
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zbenjaminwhere can i add a patch for the shell script to use the block2mtd module (the blkmtd module is deprecated)14:05
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bedboii have 120 euros on that card14:11
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shanaso it should work :14:12
bedboii don't know if there is a bug in the web page and it asks for 39914:12
shanano, it should give you the price with discount, at least mine did14:12
shanaoh you mean if it asks the bank for the 399? hmm14:13
bedboiso i'm clueless14:13
tigertdamn webstores14:13
shanacall customer service?14:13
tigertmake noise towards carlos if things get stuck. our inention is not to test your nerves14:14
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bedboiwho is carlos?14:16
tigertsee planet14:19
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tigertor quim is another person to bug. or devel list of course.14:21
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Piotrastigert: do you kwno who should I ask directly about xterm problem ? ( maemo 3 inside scratchbox )14:22
Piotrasmaemo_af_desktop[1223]: We could not read lowmem page stats.14:22
kulveI would guess that's something you shouldn't worry about14:23
kulvethat probably works nicely on the device14:23
kulveit tries to read some memory stuff14:24
Piotrasexecl: No such file or directory14:24
tigertmaemo-devel list is the best place14:24
tigertsince it potentially also helps others with similar questions14:24
Piotrasand xterm is not working at all14:24
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hap - a wishlist system for N800. Would that be usefull ?14:25
kulvePiotras: I think I have seen that execl error too and still everything worked, so your problem might be elsewhere. Of course I'm not sure at all :)14:25
hapJaffa: ^14:25
maddleroh... g'moring tigert14:27
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tigerthi. afternoon14:29
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hapok, the layout sux :)14:32
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Robot101mmm... Juhla Mokka.14:40
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tigertoh, in the office? ;)14:42
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Robot101tigert: yeah :)14:44
Robot101tigert: I come here for the food, you can't keep me away...14:44
suihkulokkifood? I tought you came for the great weather!14:44
tigert;) nice14:45
Robot101I used to but I can't feel my face any more, so I don't get the pleasure out of horizontal snow any more... :D14:45
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Ayozelo all14:52
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mitchelocany good irc clients for the n800?15:03
kulvessh + screen + irssi15:04
Molagiim having troubles with irssi on the n80015:04
Molagiwhen i download irssi and install it, it wont work15:05
Molagisame with ssh15:05
Molagiis it necessary to be root if you want ssh?15:05
Molagihow do i get ssh without being root15:06
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hapkulve: rox :)15:06
kulveMolagi: install with app.mgr. You may need to enable redbill for that though..15:07
Molagiwhats that15:07
kulvenormally you can install only debian packages with "user/xxx" sections. The red pill enables you to install any package15:08
mitchelockulve: good point, i was thinking one that wuld run locally but i supposse that way would keep the connection up15:09
kulvemitcheloc: and I want to see the backlog from my existing irc..15:10
wumpusI'm doing ssh + vncviewer + xchat :)15:10
wumpusdon't like the console clients too much15:10
kulveI do. Although they are not that convient on n80015:11
Molagihmm i got the redpill now, what shall i do next to get the ssh?15:11
kulveyou have the repositoried (catalogies) added in app. mgr.?15:12
Molagihmm no..15:12
Molagihow do i add them15:12
wumpusnah I just love vncviewer, I can control my entire pc from throughout my house15:13
kulvestart app.mgr. Menu->tools->catalogues->new15:13
Molagicatalog name15:13
Molagiweb address15:13
Molagiwhat do i put in those15:14
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kulveNokia Catalogue (3rd party software), Maemo repository and Maemo Hackers is what I have at least15:15
Molagii got them too15:15
kulveKernel Concepts is probably nice too15:15
Molagiwhat shall i do next15:15
kulveif have have them, then just click "install new applications" or something on the main view in the app. mgr. and select "all"15:15
kulveyou should have a big list there15:15
mitchelocheh, well atm i'm doing n800 to vnc to rdesktop to trillian irc :)15:16
kulveif you enabled the red pill mode15:16
Molagitheres like 100 file15:16
Molagiwhat now15:16
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kulveMolagi: click "ssh" ..15:17
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mitchelocWhat does the dual boot package do? Or rather what other firmware is here that we can boot?15:19
Molagiok i installed the ssh15:20
kulvemitcheloc: flash+mmc15:20
kulvemitcheloc: i.e. you can build your own rootfs on mmc and boot it15:20
Molagihow do i get ssh working now15:21
kulvemitcheloc: e.g. some bleeding edge stuff from SVN or something. I think there were some images for 770 about sardine before n80015:21
kulveMolagi: if you installed it, it should be running now15:21
kulveboth the server with default passwd that everybody knows and you should have the command line ssh client15:21
Molagido i open it from xterm15:22
Molagihow do i change the server im trying to connect15:23
Molagilike irkki.org15:23
mitchelocSweet!  I wonder if i buiilt a pos system on the n800 if nokia would give strong discounts for reselling the devic15:23
kulveMolagi: if you don't know what ssh is, try google for it..15:24
Molagiwell ive used putty put this is pretty weird15:24
kulveMolagi: I irc with my n800 like this: ssh, screen -r -d, chat15:25
kulveor actually "ssh my_account@my_home_computer"15:25
Molagiill try it15:25
Molagithank you115:27
kulvenp :)15:27
Molagihmm how do i change the channel15:27
mitchelockulve: you don't have t set up as a shortcut?15:27
kulvemitcheloc: no. Maybe I should do it though..15:28
kulveI did change the ssh keys so that it wont ask for the passwd since the keyboard remembers it..15:28
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kulveMolagi: press the hard key esc and number or use the ctrl+p/n buttons on the right side of the xterm (I hope you have the new and shiny version of the xtemr)15:30
mitchelocso far the biggest missing software seems to be an iax or sip client15:31
|tbb|whats iax?15:32
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mitchelocmark spencers signaling/voip protocol for asterisk - the main advantage being trouble free at traversal15:33
hapmitcheloc: gizmo doesn't allow you to connect to any SIP server?15:34
mitchelochap, it seems to but i don't want to give my business clients a proprietary chat program15:35
X-Fadehap: It does actually..15:36
hapmitcheloc: yeah i do understand that15:36
kulveisn't there a bunch of open source sip clients..?15:36
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hapan open source SIP client would be better15:36
kulveor just stacks?15:36
X-Fadehap: 'Login to Second Account'.15:36
hapX-Fade: ah, see, a sip client :)15:37
mitchelockulve, yes. Not ported though?15:37
hap <- Elephant Dreams for N800, in case some wants it.15:37
kulvemitcheloc: yeah, don't remember seeing anything ported. At least working15:38
Molagikulve is there a page up page down function for xterm15:38
Molagiso i can read previous messages15:38
X-Fadehap: It works fine. Although I rather have a Open Source version. And somthing that is properly Hildonized..15:38
kulveMolagi: on the the new xterm, yes15:38
Molagihow does it work15:38
kulvethere should be a button on the right stating "pgup"15:39
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Molagion the keyboard?15:39
kulvein the xterm15:40
mitchelockulve: i thught i read that the n800 uses a dsp chip fpr voip? I imagine that that will require custom programing?15:40
kulveMolagi: keyboard is closed source, so it cannot really be modified15:40
Molagiwhere can i see the version of my xterm15:40
kulvemitcheloc: n800 should be able to do voip on ARM too. Besides the gstreamer on the n800/770 has sinks and sources for the dsp15:41
hapX-Fade: i agree, an opensource hildonized SIP client would be great15:41
kulveMolagi: at least on the xterm: dpkg -l osso-xterm15:41
mitchelocwhy are they close sourcing th kb?15:41
kulvemitcheloc: dunno15:41
og_Help with osso-xterm on N800, please! I have scavenged wiki and maillist to no avail. My Xterm just flashes up and dissappears. What did I miss?15:41
Molagii got the version 0.1315:42
Molagiwhat is the newest?15:42
|tbb|kulve: have u looked at this before
hapX-Fade: but i don't know a _nice_ opensource SIP client at all, all I've tried just sux bad15:42
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kulve|tbb|: nope..15:42
hapX-Fade: and I'm just asking for some nice UI and working with no crash.15:42
Molagihmm where can i get the newest, is it included on the app.mgr?15:42
|tbb|take a look15:43
exocetFor xterm problems, do not install the maemo-hackers version15:43
X-Fadeif only Sofia-sip was integrated in some oss program for maemo.15:43
mitchelocreally i imagine it would be simple for someone to implement the iax2 stack that mark wrote and put on sourceforge15:43
centipedexterm: osso-xterm 0.13 crashes too, not just 0.13mh315:43
kulveexocet: why not?15:43
exocetI said on N800 the maemo hackers just crashes15:44
kulvehmm.. My xterm from maemo-hackers seems to work ok, allthough I haven't used it much yet..15:44
exoceton n800 ?15:44
X-FadeHaven't seen any news on Tapioca lately..15:44
leleX-Fade, tapioca used to integrate sofia-sip in earlier versions15:45
kulveexocet: on n800, yes15:45
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haphas the N800 something similar to Palm or iPhone to launch applications ? Instead of that ugly menu15:46
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exocetWhen I installed the maemo version, it then asked me to upgrade to the maemo-hackers version. Perharps that is the problem15:46
exocetI admit I never installed the maemo-hackers first15:46
kulvehap: apps are launched by dbus. Make your own extremely cool launcher, if the menus don't please you..15:47
mgedminan extremely cool launcher home applet would be sweet15:47
X-Fadelele: But the project seems dead?15:47
Molagicant find the xterm from application manager15:47
hapkulve: well, before making my own, I feel it's better to _ask_ if there are other, isn't it ?15:47
kulveexocet: I did install some other version too, then mistral version from maemo-hackers, then the bora version..15:47
kulvehap: there isn't15:48
mitchelocthe menu could use some help  :)15:48
X-Fadelele: The same people are working on Canola now? So maybe they didn't find it important enough?15:48
kulvehap: just read in the .desktop-files, then use the dbus to launch apps. Although not all apps suppoers dbus stuff (afaik)15:48
exocetkulve: I will test ;)15:49
leleX-Fade, oh weel it seems that tapioca-sip is in the 0.39, perhaps the plugin can be built for maemo?15:49
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X-Fadelele: Hmm there seems to be activity in their svn. They are still working on it..15:50
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leleX-Fade, mmhh. tapioca seems the most promising from my pov, since gizmo wants to relay sip signalling for the secondary account on their proxy15:52
andrunkoX-Fade: lele: tapioca 0.3.9 had a sip connection manager built on top of sofia-sip. this cm is not being ported to new tapioca, after telepathy integration15:52
andrunkoso if you want sip support you should use tapioca 0.3.915:52
X-Fadelele: indeed. Relaying is bad ;)15:53
X-Fadeandrunko: Ah, that is nice. Are there packages for N800? :D15:53
hapkulve: Nokia-N800-51:/home/user# find . -name ".desktop-files" -> no files15:54
andrunkoX-Fade: unfortunately not :S15:54
mitcheloccan you guys take a look at the iax2 ibrary?15:54
kulvehap: ls /usr/share/applications/hildon15:54
hapah ok sorry15:54
X-Fadeandrunko: Well, that is too bad. But that is something we can do ourselves..15:55
mitchelocandrunko: where can i download the tapioca package?15:55
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andrunkoX-Fade: yeah, but now that tapioca is integrated with telepathy, all we need is telepathy sip cm, that is being worked on15:57
exocetkulve: the new osso-xterm from maemo-hackers is 0.13.mh19bora1 ans upgrading from maemo version 0.13 works fine !15:58
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exocetAlthough it didn't with mh1315:58
X-Fadeandrunko: That would really be nice!15:59
hapis there any use I buy a USB cable to connect my Garmin GPS to the N800, or there are no use yet ?15:59
mitchelocwhoops. Got connecte. Did i miss anything?15:59
jcml_hap: I don't /think/ anyone's got GPS-over-USB working yet.  Especially since the bluetooth versions work well (I understand)16:00
centipedeexocet: Not on my machine :(  Neither does 0.13 from,non-free,extras16:00
jcml_I may be wrong ... :)16:00
hapjcml_: ah too bad, my hand garmin GPS is usb only :(16:00
exocetcentipede: what's happen ?16:00
leleandrunko, X-Fade : so a telepathy-sip cm would also allow the integrated client to use sip signalling?16:01
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centipedeexocet: a window appears for a split-second. I want to hard-reset my N800 to make sure no old libraries can foul it up...16:02
andrunkolele: afaik yes, but i am not sure how much code is hardcoded on the integrated client, but other applications could for sure make use of it16:02
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exocetcentipede: Did you try to install mh13 ? That sounds what happen to me when I did16:03
X-Fadelele: if you edit a contact in the internal client, you can add a phone field. So maybe....16:03
centipedeexocet: Yes, I think it was the first one I tried, not sure. Hopefully it is removed completely when uninstalling.16:04
|tbb|i think i asked it before, anyway. Is there a way to hack the n800 in that way so i can add  fields to the addressbook, not just the phone number16:06
exocetcentipede: When I installed the mh13, xterm never worked again, even if I uninstall/reinstall the maemo version16:08
mitcheloci'll finish looking at tapioca in the morning, good night guys!16:08
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centipedeAha! So I need to return to factory defaults... But how?16:08
exocettry to install mh1916:09
exocetperhaps it will work16:09
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centipedeexocet: No, sorry, it doesn't. Does the uninstall leave files behind?16:10
exocetI don't know, perhaps it is its dependencies (librairies..)16:10
centipedeexocet: I have uninstalled everything except for bitstream fonts.16:11
exocetReally I don't know :)16:11
centipedeThanks for trying anyway ;-)16:12
exocetWhen it happened to me I reflashed the N80016:12
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exocetyou're welcome16:12
bedboihi there.16:12
centipedeexocet: Can you give me a link on how to reflash N800? I would be very grateful.16:12
Jaffahap: looks very cool16:13
exocetTry with
hapJaffa: layout sux, but it works, ajax and shit16:15
hapJaffa: now i need to enter some content i guess :)16:15
JaffaSend a link to maemo-developers, maemo-users and on forums16:16
hapJaffa: well i'd rather like to get some content _before_ from me or/and users from this channel, than send a link to an almost empty database website.16:17
hapand steal some icons somewhere to have it look prettier16:17
hapJaffa: if you have a little time, you may create yourself an account and hit me with feedbacks ;)16:18
hapelse don't bother16:18
hap(it's fine)16:18
* Jaffa should do in a couple of hours. About to open Jaffa Jr's birthday presents - and try and get this migraine better.16:18
* Jaffa isn't entirely convinced his in-laws aren't to blame for the latter16:19
hapmy N800 disconnects from my wifi which is 1 meter away, a top within a ssh session gets disconnected :(16:22
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melmothAny idea what is the correct pkg-config stuff to add so dbus application compile ?16:25
MDKhap: what kind of router are you using?16:25
hapMDK: homemade linux router (freebox from, but it works fine with the same configuration and my powerbook laptop which i connect to from my workstation16:26
hapmaddler: thanks for your vim port, usefull :)16:28
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hapmaddler: it has bugs :)16:31
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hapmaddler: when i do :syntax on i get : E484: Can't open file /home/maddler/vim_sbox//share/vim/syntax/syntax.vim16:32
mgedminuh oh :)16:32
hapas you say :)16:32
mgedminhap: you can work around it by setting the VIMRUNTIME environment var, if you need vim *right now*16:33
hapah yeah thanks16:34
hapmgedmin: well maddler didn't include a syntax file at all anyway16:35
mgedminhap: oh, that's the old vim package16:35
mgedminI thought maddler released a new one, with syntax files16:35
hapwhat use is a vim without all its tools16:35
hapah wll16:35
hapsux :)16:35
mgedminhap: I've compiled vim with all the bells and whistles16:36
mgedminpruned the runtime files so they don't take tens of megs16:36
hapmgedmin: list 21/01 so i thought it was new16:36
mgedminbut I haven't built a .deb out of it yet16:36
hapdpkg-buildpackage ? :]16:36
mgedminthat's the easy part16:36
mgedminthe hard part is writing debian/rules16:36
maddlermgedmin: hap no... only moved them to another location :)16:36
mgedminI tried to make sense out of ubuntu/debian's package, but...16:36
mgedminhap: in the meanwhile you could extract this in your home directory:
hapok well, i'll do without yet, no hurry for the syntax16:37
hapor fetch it from my linux box16:37
maddlerhap: you could use some coloured pencil in the meantime :)16:38
maddlerdamn... I need ping and host commands...16:38
hapand 'w'16:38
hapand traceroute, etc.16:38
maddlerwell... w isn't necessary... and I can use mtr instead of traceroute...16:39
onioneh, new os2006 image... anyone tried it yet?16:42
melmothis it me or does the libosso example from the tutorial does not compile in mameo 3.0 ?16:43
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mgedminonion: is there a new one?16:47
* |tbb| wonders about new one16:47
onionjust announced on the ml16:48
onionwlan fixes only16:48
hap|tbb|: talk here, it's easier for me16:49
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bstockso you have to re-flash to get these wlan fixes? that's annoying16:49
bstocki haven't had any problems with wlan either16:50
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melmothjust for the record, it was me.It compile with `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 hildon-libs` -ansi -Wall `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 hildon-libs  libosso` -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0/ -I/targets/SDK_X86/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include/16:52
sunshinehi, I got a question, I want to flash my nokia 770 and than this message come : Invalid FIASCO subblock count (2)16:53
sunshinesome Idea what this mean?16:53
mgedminbad image?16:54
mgedminhave you checked the md5sum?16:54
sunshineno I havent mgedmin..thx16:54
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sunshinemgedmin, I followed the instructions in the wiki to flash a newer image on my nokia 770, so I got all files needed, and how do I check now the cheksums?16:57
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s-ndh-cownload the sum file type md5sum filename and compare the hash against the one in the sum file16:57
mgedminif you have a linux system, and you've downloaded the MD5SUMS file into the same directory as the OS image, then run md5sum -c MD5SUMS16:58
sunshinethx s-ndh-c and mgedmin, I will try this, yes I am using Linux(ubuntu)16:59
jumpulamd5sum is available for win, too via unxutils, cygwin or equivalent17:00
jumpulai think as a w32 binary too..17:00
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pyhimysI found out how to unmount the n800 properly from os x17:04
pyhimysyou have to use disk utility's unmount17:04
pyhimyseject wont work17:04
pyhimysi even documented it:
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Takanybody know any specific benefits to the new os2006 image other than "better wifi, wifi certifications" ?17:09
bstockwhere are you seeing this os2006 image? i didn't see it on the page17:12
Takthere was an email to maemo-announce and maemo-users17:14
mgedminone hour ago17:15
* Tak didn't see the time17:15
TakI just got up :-P17:15
Takand my email was like, "Good morning!  Have a new os2006!"17:15
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bstocknice release notes..17:17
bstockyeah i prob wouldn't upgrade unless i start noticing bad wifi connectivity17:17
TakI wonder what they mean by "wifi certification"17:18
sunshineok I tried now, the check sum is correct, but I got still this message : Invalid FIASCO subblock count (2)17:18
bstockthey probably got certified by the wifi-alliance17:19
bstockthe the 'wifi' term is a registered trademark17:19
mgedminhm, sunshine, what command line you used?17:19
Takwow - disagreement is unprofessional now17:20
jtraTak: I wonder why there is no warning on that page that firmware upgrade deletes are internal data17:21
sunshineI used : root@ragtime:/home/ragtime/Desktop#  ./flasher -F SU-18_2006SE_2.2006.39-14_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R17:21
sunshineand the standard terminal of ubuntu17:21
jcml_It's arrived!! woo!17:21
Takjtra: maybe it didn't occur to them that it wouldn't be obvious17:21
hub*sigh* I have to resinstall it all again17:22
mgedminhow can I have two /dev/mtdblockN devices with mtdram?17:22
hubjtra: it has always been the case, but yes17:23
hubjtra: use the system backup17:23
jtraI know, but I guess that it might not be obvious for all17:23
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hubthe thing is that apparently the backup does not save apt sources17:23
hubor it didn't on 2.017:24
hubno idea on 2.117:24
Takmine didn't on 2.1 either17:24
bstocksunshine: are you using the flasher version 3?17:24
jtrabtw, anybody keen to try my new game and report me back if it works for him/her?
sunshineno I am using the normal flasher ..ok I will try with that one thx bstock :)17:25
Molagiwhy doesnt people make good games17:25
Molagilike adom17:25
bstockshould be able to find it here:
jtraMolagi: what is adom?17:25
sunshinealready got it , but thanks bstock^^17:26
Takin my case, because I have no idea wtf adom is17:26
Molagiancient domain of mystery17:26
hubis there a way to save them manually17:26
Molagiits like nethack17:26
Takjtra: looks good; I don't have my device on me atm17:26
TakI'm guessing adom would be a simple recompile17:27
jtraTak: there is also OpenTTD port and my other game (Toggle Game) on that pages17:27
Takyeah, I think I saw toggle game previously17:27
Molagimore rp games would be nice17:28
bstockhub: to save your apt sources you should be able to just scp /etc/apt/sources.list to another machine17:28
Molaginethack is the only one17:28
hubbstock: I don't have scp17:28
AD-N770what hapen with nethack ?17:29
AD-N770it's a nice game17:29
bstockdo you have console?17:29
Takwhat about Chaos Strikes Back?17:29
sunshinebstock thanks, now its flashing :)17:29
Molagithere should be more games like nethack on tablets17:29
hubI guess I'll just copy it on the flash card17:29
hubanyway I don't have the USB cable here17:29
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sunshineHow is this...In the wiki stays I should plug in after the flashing, the charger, but when its ready with flashing, get I ll there a message , like finishing in the console?17:31
jtraI guess that games which requires text input will not be widely adopted on tablets17:31
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Taksunshine: when it finishes flashing, the console will print a message17:32
Molagiwell ultima 8 doesnt require text input17:32
sunshineok thanks tak :)17:33
Molagior ultima 717:33
zyxulnagais it possible to do some customizations to the device install some applications and then keep an image of that, so it can be restored into other devices in the future?17:34
AD-N770zyxulnaga: rsync can be usefull :)17:36
booiiingwhat is the better place for swap? sd or mmc?17:36
zyxulnagaAD-N770: can that store the entire state of the image?17:37
zyxulnagai mean kernel and everything17:37
zyxulnagaso I can flash it after directly with my image17:37
dwdTak: You *did* misread his statement, BTW.17:38
s-ndh-cfind out how nokia did it17:38
s-ndh-ci think this os image is just some container that holds multiple filesystemimages or something17:38
s-ndh-cbut maybe iam wrong17:38
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dwdTak: He said he was expecting more antagonism, ie, that he expected to be the recipient of vacuous flames, rather than the kinds of structured disagreement he got.17:39
zyxulnagayeah but i dont know if the flasher does other checks17:41
AD-N770I'm not sure zyxulnaga, I used it to keep a third partition in the card with a mistral fresh17:41
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zyxulnagajust trying to automate some install procedures17:41
sunshineI am worry about the flashing process...anyone know how long this normally takes?17:41
Takdwd: ah17:41
zyxulnagasunshine: a few seconds to a minute or two17:41
sunshinehm..than I am now worried^^17:42
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s-ndh-cit displays status usualy17:42
s-ndh-cdoesnt it?17:42
s-ndh-catleast when i flashed my n770 it did17:42
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sunshineIt tells me : Suitable USB device not found, waiting17:43
zyxulnagaright you need to power on the device17:43
mgedminthen plug in your usb cable and power on the device17:43
sunshinenow power on?17:43
mgedminalso, make sure the charger is disconnected17:43
mgedminand if the device is powered on, power it off, then turn it back on17:43
sunshinehere it stayed, after this I should: Now plug in the charger to switch on the 770 or switch it on using the power button WHILE holding the Home-button17:44
mgedminthe tablet can only talk to the flasher during boot time17:44
sunshineoh ok17:44
s-ndh-cjust like my wrt17:45
hubs-ndh-c: yeah but wrt is over TFTP :-)17:46
soleblazeHoly..didn't think that the mameo-dev/users mailing lists would be this active17:47
sunshineok now It works right:)17:47
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jcml_ soleblaze: I think there's a bit more traffic since the N800 launched :)17:49
soleblazelol yeah.17:49
soleblazeah well.17:49
soleblazeI can read it at work 0:)17:49
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jcml_Grab a gmail account and filter it off - I find it managable in one -dev/-user combined folder ...17:50
sunshineok , I flashed it now , but I still got this wired screen17:50
bencerhi all17:50
mgedminsunshine: ./flasher-3.0 -R17:50
soleblazeI have a seperate account for lists on my domain..and I'm using to filter it, but keep it in my imap account so I can read it at work17:50
benceri've just compiled musepack gstreamer plugin, and works, but has a very high cpu usage17:50
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soleblazeonly problem with that is that my mail widget won't tell me I have new mail since it's on an imap server..meh..ah well17:51
sunshinemgedinmin what means that command?17:51
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mlpugwhats pixmap? is it just a synonym for bitmap? wikipedia does not know17:53
mgedminsunshine: it reboots the tablet with the new image17:54
mgedminotherwise it sits there waiting for further commands from the flasher17:54
mgedminI think you can also reboot it manually by pressing the power button17:55
sunshineok it reebotet now with this new image17:55
mgedminbut I usually just flash and reboot with one command (flasher-3.0 -f -F filename -R)17:55
sunshinebut the screen, its still wired17:55
mgedminok, what does "wired screen" mean?17:55
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Disconnectmgedmin: i'd bet "weird"17:56
soleblazeweird as in 'there's strange writing on my screen'17:56
soleblazeor weird as in 'i'm glad I got the replacement plan'17:56
sunshinemgedmin: I was using the dbclient to start in xterm an root session, and than suddendly  after a while the network was down and than I restarted the device, and the screen was wired17:57
soleblazewired? like lines going down it?17:57
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sunshinesoleblaze : yes17:57
soleblazewell that's not good17:57
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sunshineAnd is there a "cure"?17:58
soleblazedocta docta..tell me tha cure..17:58
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soleblazeanyways..I gotta get to work... good luck sunshine17:58
mgedminthe cure is to ship the device back to nokia as broken17:58
mgedminit's a hardware failure17:58
mgedminthat sometimes manifests after a reboot17:58
sunshineok thanks soleblaze :)17:58
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mgedminthankfully it never happened to me, but there were a few threads about this on the mailing list17:59 you think I ll get a new one? I buy that before 2 weeks over the internet and I got garantie17:59
sunshineBecause in the disvlaimer stood  It can happen17:59
mgedminyou should talk to nokia support18:00
sunshinehave you the e mail adress of the nokia support?18:00
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sunshinehm okay..18:00
mgedmincheck out this thread:
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sunshineyes this is exactly what I ve got18:02
sunshinemgedmin, is this likely to happen again than, when I make me at a new device to root?18:02
Andy80I've seen that OS 2006 Edition version 3.2006.49-2 is out. Do you suggest me to update to this version?18:03
zyxulnagai just updated to it18:03
zyxulnagait seems to work fine up to now18:03
s-ndh-cdoes that update contain any relevant fixes?18:04
Andy80yes but... I have to re-install all application :(18:04
s-ndh-ci did only see something about better wifi18:04
s-ndh-cbut i have no problem with that yet18:05
Andy80s-ndh-c: neither me18:05
VReI wish I could update thru application manager..18:07
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Takif "better wifi" includes wep+peap, I'm *so* there18:08
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Andy80my fear is that this update could broke kismet :P since it's not so easy to find a wireless card+configuration that works with it ;)18:11
kulveAndy80: i would guess that it on't bresk it18:11
maddlerAndy80: no... I don't think kismet will be affected...18:11
sunshineok bye togheter, I have to go...thanks a lot for the information I gathered, it helped me a lot :)18:12
maddlerbtw... I'm going to test in later this evening on my spare 770 :)18:12
* maddler loves saying "spare 770"18:12
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kulveit's easy to typo with n800..18:12
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* mgedmin wonders whether kulve actually meant to type that, or if that was a typo of "to type"18:16
mgedminkind of like the "all Cretans are liars" question18:17
kulveeasy to wwrite incorrect :)18:17
kulvemaybe I'll learn18:18
kulvelets try the  thumb keyboard18:18
Takcrap!  nokia online store charges sales tax in tx :-(18:20
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* Tak kicks tx18:20
keesjticks tic tacs18:20
mgedminhow much is the tx tax, Tak?18:22
Taklol, I dunno yet - just reading jaebird's post on the list18:22
Takas long as it's < $300, I guess I'm ok ;-)18:22
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philiplTak: 33.0018:29
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Takhmm - that must be tax on the whole amount, then18:29
nelsonLook!  It's a picture of my Nokia 770!
* Tak kicks tx again18:30
nelsonAnd another one!
sxpert-worknelson: lol18:30
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nelsonIt wasn't *supposed* to be a picture of my 770....18:30
jcml_Cheeky little bastard, isn't it?  Creeping into the shot like that ...18:33
keesjnelson,  this one is also nice but it's the n80018:33
hapnelson: ah, i spend 2 months in india few months ago, on my used enfield, about 2000 kilometers done18:34
hapnelson: went through bengalore, but didn't much like it18:34
hapnelson: i had never see first class cabin, thanks ! :)18:35
nelsonhap: So ... you know why Enfield made both rifles and motorcycles?18:39
TakI was wondering how you went 2k km on a rifle18:40
hapnelson: i don't18:40
hapTak: :)18:40
nelsonhap: same technology makes rifle barrels and motorcycle tubes.18:40
hapah ok18:40
hapnelson: well i had fun, but i wouldn' advice anyone to do the same, almost got killed so many times by trucks18:41
nelsonIndian drivers are scary.  They trust each other WAY too much.18:41
mgedminI've seen a video on youtube18:42
* mgedmin shudders18:42
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nelsonmgedmin: I've got one I'm going to upload.18:42
hapyeah, i noticed. I also noticed 3 trucks in front of me where the road was 10 meters large18:42
hapand i had no space to go :)18:42
nelsonbetween the trucks?18:43
hapnelson: in fact india roads are the first time I _saw_ dead bodies in front of me, and about 5 deads within a 4 hours drive in Kerala.18:43
nelsonThat's what all the other Indians do.18:43
hapi stoped because of my first aid diploma, but what can you then do18:43
hapyou're in a middle of nowhere, the guy had his skull in 2 pieces18:44
nelsonPeople are fragile.18:44
hapand then other idians go by and tell you "don't worry; no problem"18:44
hapthen you understand they really have another idea about death :)18:44
nelsonHere's a crazy road (Mumbai-Pune Expressway):,73.35925&z=16&t=S18:44
|tbb|does a reboot consumes much battery?18:45
hapwell, next time i'm going i don' know what i'll use. in fact buses are as dangerous as riding on your own bike, where you can at least drive slowly.18:46
onionanyone into tracker music and would like to test a package ??18:48
Tak|tbb|: supposedly rebooting uses more battery than many hours of idle time18:48
|tbb|idle time could also been having a internetconnection running with xchat for example?18:49
* Tak shrugs18:49
shapr|tbb|: Rebooting on my Nokia 770 seems to use more than an hour of wifi-connected idle time.18:54
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|tbb|i also have noticed something like that ;/18:57
JaffaHmm, there do seem to be issues with video playback on the N800. After about 10 minutes it seems to stall, switching from full screen to window and back again seems to fix it.18:57
jcml_I find that the battery status meter takes into account "current" current (:-)) utilisation. I.e. if you're using it heavily (bootup) it'll take a few minutes of idle (or even wifiy) behaviour before it re-evaluates it's "how much charge remains" estimate.18:57
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jcml_s/it's/its/   # grrrrr18:58
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rofltoshso, does anyone know18:58
rofltoshdoes the N800 yet have picture-taking functionality?18:59
maddlerrofltosh: not (yet)18:59
JaffaYeah, someone compiled a quick app to demo it.18:59
|tbb|nope not before u code something for us18:59
jcml_rofltosh: I took a photo of the screen while it looked at me - does that count? :)18:59
rofltoshhaha, well i have absolutely no programming experience18:59
|tbb|jaffa did it work for u? vor me not18:59
rofltoshi was just considering buying one, and wondered if you could snap photos yet19:00
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Jaffa|tbb|: not tried it19:00
rofltoshso does this mean it's possible, i.e. that somebody *will* write an app to take pictures in the near future?19:00
hubif I get mine, I might to it19:00
glasssit's highly likely that your cellular phone will take better photos19:00
rofltoshwell the whole point is that i want the N800 to replace my phone19:01
rofltoshuse skype for calls (the wifi is everywhere here)19:01
hubglasss: I havent' seen for the n800, but my cell quality is crap19:01
rofltoshthat is, when they write a skype app for it :]19:01
hubrofltosh: fwiw, skype is a proprietary closed protocol. better invest on SIP19:02
rofltoshlike gizmo?19:02
rofltoshheh, sweet jcml_19:04
hubjcml_: yeah that can be a limiting factor19:04
rofltoshall i'd really want is the ability to snap VGA pictures of mediocre quality and upload them to flickr on the go19:05
hubrofltosh: I can do that with my phone19:05
hubover BT download the picture and upload it19:05
hubI actually used my N770 to download from the phone19:05
hubbecause I don't have BT on the laptop19:06
rofltoshyes hub, but i want to do this all on one gadget over wifi... simple = better19:06
rofltoshand i don't want to be dependent on cell networks either19:06
hubrofltosh: given that I need a phone anyway19:06
hubit does not depend on the cell network19:06
hubit is only BT19:06
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rofltoshah, never mind... misread your explanation19:06
jcml_I'd lay money on people making some *really* exciting/novel/etc apps that use the camera - and hopefully they'll be expandable to grab BT-accessible images on an already-paired device.19:07
rofltoshso, a couple more noob questions,19:07
rofltoshhow long does the N800 take to boot?19:08
jcml_<1 minute19:08
jcml_faster than the 77019:08
JaffaI'm liking the "Soft poweroff" you can enable in the power button menu.19:08
rofltoshdoes it have a standby mode so you don't need to wait for booting every time you whip it out?19:08
Takwhat's "soft poweroff" ?19:08
jcml_Anyone timed how long a new (or depleted) N800 takes to fully charge?19:09
hubjcml_: I can't order by N800 yet19:09
Jaffarofltosh: it's got advanced power mgmt so you don't need that, but yes - you can enable a "soft poweroff" to get a sleep/suspend like functionality19:09
||cwrofltosh: yes, and it lasts days on standby19:09
* jcml_ hopes it'll charge by the time he has to leave the office ...19:09
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rofltoshokay... one other thing... the N800's manual warns against leaving it plugged in after it's done charging, r else the battery will "overcharge"... does this mean nokia wasn't smart enough to include a charge controller onboard?19:10
JaffaNo, it's standard disclaimer stuff.19:10
rofltoshi'd really want to use it as one would a laptop... leave it plugged in while at a desk, and unhook it while on the go19:11
rofltoshso you can leave it plugged in most of the time with no issues?19:11
|tbb|Jaffa, IIRC i just could shutdown the unit by using the powerbotton19:11
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zyxulnagarofltosh: yeah i have left mine for endless hours plugged in19:11
TakI do that with the 770 (plugged in @ desk)19:11
zyxulnagaboth with the 800 and the 77019:11
rofltoshone more question... how good is AIM support (i'm assuming via Gaim) to date?19:11
Jaffa|tbb|: soft poweroff still gives you instant on, but saves muchos power (AFAICT)19:11
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* |tbb| confused19:12
hapJaffa: advanced power managment ? Well i left it turned on all night long => this morning no more batteries19:12
Jaffahap: have you got wireless disconnection when idle enabled?19:12
|tbb|hap, i got the same before i have to reflash the unit19:13
hap|tbb|: you mean reflashing fixed the problem ?19:13
hapJaffa: my ssh gets diconnected, yes, if it's what you mean19:13
mgedmin|tbb|: soft poweroff is like lock keyboard + screen, but it doesn't require you to press select after pressing power19:13
|tbb|nope but maybee one service was consuming the whole battery19:13
hap|tbb|: well i had nothing running on mine19:14
|tbb|nothing visible :)19:14
hapwell i'll check through ssh next time19:14
|tbb|mgedmin: how to enable softpoweroff19:14
mgedmin|tbb|: edit /etc/systemui/systemui.xml as root19:15
mgedminuncomment the menu item definition19:15
mgedminthen the power menu gets a new menu item19:15
hapmgedmin: aah great19:15
mgedminyou can also add "reboot" to the menu that way19:15
Jaffamgedmin: I'm thinking of moving soft poweroff to the top of the menu, so I can do "power+select" to do it19:15
rofltoshso, anyone have experience with AIM on either the N800 or N770?19:16
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mgedminJaffa: if you figure out how to do that, tell me19:17
Jaffamgedmin: I'd assumed (but not tested) that reordering the elements in the XML file would do it19:17
|tbb|mgedmin, thx i just wondering about the fb-progress script exactly the if != blabla19:17
* mgedmin tries to make sense out of that sentence and gives up19:18
hap<menuitem priority="90" <<-è19:18
Jaffamgedmin: changing the "priority" attribute?19:18
hapJaffa: i would say change that19:18
JaffaIndeed, just testing now.19:18
* shapr boings cheerfully19:18
|tbb|hmmh, in the script it asks about which bootreason it was to start new19:18
* mgedmin wonders if it is possible to keep time by noticing shapr's boings19:18
* hap wants an osx dock like style on the left for the 3 buttons. drag&drop out of the dock => icon removed.19:19
hapi guess i'm just dreaming.19:19
shaprWell, I start boinging in the morning and I stop when I go to sleep, so it's a good way to keep shapr time :-)19:19
shaprmgedmin: I bet you're the only person on #maemo that I've met in person, so you really know how bouncy I am.19:19
Jaffamgedmin: yep, changing priority to 110 reorders it19:19
hapwhy isn't softpower off by default, doesn't it save battery??19:20
shaprYeah, I'd want softpower off by default too. It sounds like the right way to keep screen touches from sucking power.19:20
* Jaffa renames his to "Put device to sleep" too19:21
TakEuthanize device?19:21
mgedminactually, what I would like is to have a "blank screen NOW" button/menu item19:21
mgedminlike PalmOS has19:21
jcml_"Shapr Time!!"19:21
mgedminwith instant wakeups on taps/any key19:21
mgedminrather than only the power btn19:21
Takmgedmin: actually I'm making a little applet for the 770 to do a similar thing19:22
mgedmina what thing?19:22
mgedminblank screen now?19:22
Takcouple different screen-related things19:22
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mgedminmy use case: nokia 770 as a car stereo (or mono as it may be) system19:22
mgedminthe shining display is not so good while driving at night19:23
mgedminbut I want to skip tracks by pressing one button19:23
rofltoshhey, can anyone tell me how good the AIM support on the N770/N800 is?19:24
jcml_rofltosh: on the 770 it worked, but wasn't as integrated as the device's native gtalk support.19:24
rofltoshwell that's okay jcml_... i'm just wondering, is it refined enough for frequent use?19:25
||cwrofltosh: you just install gaim and go, i don't how it would worse on the n800 than it did on the 770 where it works acceptably19:25
rofltoshpretty neat19:25
||cwi think i used ti once when i first got my 770, but I haven't installed it again after the os2006 upgrade19:27
jcml_||cw: ditto.19:27
||cwi don't im much though19:27
jcml_It just wasn't worth the setup bother19:27
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||cwI use gmail chat more than aim, and I think i used gtalk on the 770 once19:28
shaprjcml_: boing to the beat! Lately that's 4/4 of reggae though...19:29
mgedminwould be nice if had something like this page:
shaprmgedmin: I'd suggest stealing the ipod shuffle interface for an easy to use car player.19:30
rofltoshhey guys, thanks for all the help :D19:30
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mgedminshapr: when I watched the ipod demo videos, I wanted to implement that UI with a python program on the 77019:30
mgedminbut apple would probably send lawyers after anyone who tried that :/19:30
* mgedmin suddenly has this image of shapr on a pogo stick19:31
hapmgedmin: the launcher with icons ?19:31
mgedminhap: touch-based scrolling with inertia19:31
hapaah yeah, i want that too. First thing i was wondering too19:31
shaprI can't see them sending lawyers after the ipod shuffle interface, it's just a ring with 'next track' on the right, 'prev track' on the left, 'vol up' on the top, 'vol down' on the bottom' and 'play/pause toggle' in the big center button.19:31
hapbut could that be implemented in Python, isn't it more like a system thing19:31
mgedminwould the 770's hardware be up to the task, though?19:31
shaprmgedmin: Actually, I bounce on a unicycle.19:32
mgedminoh, ipod, not iphone19:32
mgedminI always mix those two up19:32
||cwmgedmin: apples interface isn't all that different than most mp3 players, it's the clickwheel that makes it special19:32
* mgedmin does not have an ipod shuffle, nor any other ipod19:32
shaprmgedmin: I sort of wish I didn't... lack of ogg and flac really gets on my nerves.19:32
mgedminshapr: a unicycle is basically a pogo stick with a wheel instead of a spring, right? :)19:32
shaprBut I couldn't find a small enough ogg player.19:33
shaprmgedmin: er, yes, actually19:33
||cwshapr: so install rockbox or that linux for ipod distro19:33
shapr||cw: rockbox doesn't do ipod shuffle19:33
||cwunless you have a shuffle, that is19:33
hapwhat I want is inertia when i browse a webpage, to move to the bottom or up19:33
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shaprmgedmin: This is my wheeled pogo stick -
ajturnerthat's awesome19:34
mgedminwhat I want is browser panning that doesn't lag19:34
ajturnerdo you really ride that on trails?19:34
||cwinertia wouldn't be a problem from apple, that's nothing new19:34
hapno, it was just for the picture19:34
shaprajturner: Yup, Oak Mountain State Park every weekend and around the golf course every day.19:35
hapcarrying it all the way to the woods and shit just for a picture, he's the man :)19:35
shaprhap: hahah19:35
hapshapr: where's the rest, someone stole you the front part ?19:36
shaprhap: I just got rid of that last training wheel ;-)19:36
||cwhow come there are no pictures of you riding on terrain19:37
shaprmgedmin: Got some points to put onto a MaemoDevelopment page equivalent to the UbuntuDevelopment page?19:37
hapbecause he doesn't, i told you ;)19:37
jcml_shapr: can you get unicycles with 2 training wheels? :)19:38
hap||cw: because he goes so fast the camera isn't fast enough ?19:38
shapr||cw: It's hard to hold the camera steady while riding.19:38
||cwother people would take them...19:38
shapr||cw: But I'll get take today just for you ;-)19:38
mgedminshapr: not really, just another case of "somebody else ought to do this" :(19:38
shaprer "take some today"19:38
shaprjcml_: You can, but they're not very good.19:38
hapshapr: what you need on this is something like regular bikes, so you can go faster and faster19:39
shaprjcml_: Better to learn on a 20" learning unicycle and then upgrade19:39
hapa speed change or something19:39
hapok, then it would become a break necking device19:39
shaprhap: Geared hubs are just starting to be commercially produced. But they're $1000+ right now, I can't afford that.19:39
hapshapr: how fast can you then go on a flat street ? Must become dangerous quickly, like if you can ride at 50km/h19:40
hapthen how do you stop when a truck comes in front..19:40
tigertwow. has excellent friday music :)19:40
hap(i'm talking about the geared ones)19:40
shaprhap: A geared hub and a 36 inch wheel would probably get you up to 20 mph / 32 kmh19:41
hubI'm not geared19:41
tigert(the mp3stream on topright)19:42
shaprHydraulic brakes are for stopping quickly, but I don't have mine mounted yet.19:42
hapshapr: hmm, i don't see how you could operate Hydraulic on such and not fall19:42
hapi guess i ll have to try myself19:42
shaprBut, I *do* want A2DP support so I can listen to my music from bluetooth headphones while unicycling =)19:42
hapdisc brakes?19:42
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shaprhap: disc brakes are rare for unicycles, V-brakes are the most common.19:43
shaprThe recent bluetooth headset thread on maemo-dev said that A2DP could probably be setup by an N800 owner without too much effort (if you're a developer) has anyone tried that?19:44
|tbb|shapr i agree, im waiting long time for something like that (a2dp)19:45
shapripod shuffle headphone cables still get in my way when I'm unicycling, a bluetooth stereo headset would be perfect, and let me play FLAC and Ogg.19:45
keesjthe thumpad integration with opera is really nice . I can reply to gmail mails remove some text and other stuff. typing is still a bit slow. not typing with the thumbs om the pad .(the fingers next to the thumb)19:46
shapr|tbb|: The maemo-dev thread said the best way to speed up A2DP is to help the bluez guys.19:47
shaprThough I think only the N800 has a bluetooth chip with bluez support.19:48
keesjthere are so many small user interaction improvements. it is a joy19:49
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* mgedmin drools19:49
* shapr wants to try!19:50
* mgedmin looks at the calendar19:50
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shaprmgedmin: Do you have your N800 yet?19:51
mgedminI'll get it in two weeks...19:52
Molagidiablo2 would kick ass on n80019:53
Molagior diablo119:53
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Takcall up blizzard and ask for the source19:53
Molagiwith luck they could give diablo 119:54
mgedminask nokia to send them a discount code if they port diablo :)19:54
* jcml_ has been spending too long debugging and *totally* misread the last sentence ...19:56
hapjcml_: are you running a usenet binaries server yourself?19:57
* mgedmin recently got diablo 2 running on wine and wasted a week of free time19:57
jcml_Well, it's /technically/ claranet's, not *mine* :)19:57
hapjcml_: ah ok, ?19:57
haphow much retention do you provide?19:57
Takyea, my fiancee and I are (re)playing through on wine19:57
jcml_<10 days at present.19:58
hapah ok19:58
jcml_hap: I'm not registered with freenode and can't do PMs ... :|19:59
hapjcml_: ah ok, too bad then.19:59
jcml_(and am British :)19:59
hapah ok, sorry i'm used to people from clara to be french20:00
hapjcml_: are you a newzbin user then?20:00
jcml_:) well, staff /are/ french20:00
hapanyway, all that is off topic :)20:01
jcml_Night all - off to play with the n800 on the train home!20:01
hapjcml_: you ll get an invite for something20:02
hapjcml_: use it if you wish, don't bother if you don't care20:02
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s-ndh-cis there a monkey bubble port for the n770?20:07
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mgedminthere was a similar game with a different name20:08
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bedboiDear Mrs. De Cicco,20:10
bedboiWe would recommend you to contact your bank in order to find out why the payment is rejected.20:10
bedboiit is just because my name is Luca that i'm a Mrs20:10
Takdo you live on the second floor? ;-)20:10
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bedboiso it seems that i'm stuck20:11
bedboiwith my credit card it seems that i won't be able to issue the payment20:13
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bedboiand it's really strange because i used the same card to purchase n77020:13
bedboilast year20:13
tigertask your bank :)20:13
Takdid you call and find out what the deal is?20:13
ajturnerare you talking about using the dev code?20:14
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bedboiTak: my bank...i'm sure my bank won't be able to say nothing.20:14
bedboithey will say: ask the dealer20:14
Takdid you call nokia?20:14
bedboithey said "ask the bank"20:15
* Tak shrugs20:15
Takcall the bank, then call nokia back20:15
ajturnerbedboi - didn't work for me, and I talked with customer support & nokia support20:15
ajturnerthey wanted me to 'fax the email' to them20:15
bedboifax the email?20:15
* Tak really hopes this stuff is resolved by the time he orders20:15
bedboiwhat's that?20:15
ajturnerthat's what i said20:15
bedboithat doesn't make any sense20:16
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ajturnersupposedly "Lets Talk" is looking into it and is going to call me back20:17
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bedboiso someone is having the same problem i have20:23
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ajturnerbedboi - yes, and apparently there are others. You're in the US, right?20:24
bedboinope. italy20:25
tigertyea, people seem to have trouble with their cards20:26
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bedboiwhat's up?20:26
bedboiit could be that they are not applying the discount?20:26
bedboibecause i have a prepaid card20:26
tigertI guess the first item in checklist is the usual "billing address == shipping address"=20:26
bedboiwith enough credit20:26
sxperttigert, I've heard of people living in .ca that can't seem to be able to use their code, as it only works on the US site, and requires a US address20:27
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bedboiwell gotta go now20:28
ajturnerwell I'm in the US, US address, tried 2, very valid CC's, and billing=shipping20:28
bedboiah!!! so that's nokia fault :P20:28
ajturnerwell, it's something in their CC validation20:28
ajturnerit's applying the discout, the total is correct20:28
bedboiajturner: they just accept visa gold20:28
ajturnerbut when you call into nokia shop- they don't know what the discount code is20:28
disqtigert: hey :) is ferenc online and/or can somebody reset my garage repo key? (need to generate a new one seems like my current one is broken)20:28
zuhI ordered a N800 for a friend and at least they claim it's on its way so no problems with addresses for me...20:29
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disqi was able to order from the us shop today, though under billing address i had to choose "US" and give false information20:30
keesjdisq, is it not possible using the garage admin?20:30
disqit's not around, i'll look again20:30
disqthe link to do that, that is20:30
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sxperttigert, user in question also stated that the .ca nokia site was pretty, erh, "poor". I think he used the words "third world"20:31
hubsxpert: where did you hear that?20:31
sxpertsomewhere on #gnomefr :DD20:31
tigertdisq: mail ferenc20:31
tigertdisq: he has the admin rights20:31
* hub is waiting anwser from both the CA and US stores20:32
bedboilet's try the last time20:32
bedboino way20:32
Taknokia ca looks like your standard corporate site20:32
tigertnokia websites are not exactly friendly20:32
tigertloads of flash and other crap20:32
bedboiThe bank has refused the transaction. Check that digits are correct.20:33
tigertbedboi: call the bank and ask what it was?20:33
hubTak: not the best experience, but you can browser without flashcrapola20:33
tigertthey'll have logs20:33
bedboiok,i'll ask tomorrow, hopefully20:33
bedboibye all20:33
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hubTak: I have emailed them about ordering20:33
ajturnertigert... but they're so purtee20:33
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sxpertwell, tomorrow being saturday, I'm not sure bedboi will be able to ask anything :D20:34
gomiamhello everyone20:34
gomiamsorry for bumping in here like this, but I just found something weird about my N80020:34
gomiamthe SD card included in the box isn't recognized20:34
gomiamshould it be formatted with FAT or FAT32 format?20:35
kulveI think I didn't do anything with it. Just used it..20:38
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gomiam:-) I needed to do nothing on a N770 I temporarily had. But this is intrihuinh.20:39
gomiamok, restarting tablet...20:39
Takseveral people have had similar issues with sd cards on the n80020:40
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gomiamwell, I guess I'll have to try the 2GB (4GB if I can get it) one before I buy it :-)20:40
* gomiam gets back to installing yet more software on the tablet...20:41
kulveI'm using 2G sd without problems..20:41
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jonnylambHey all. I'm still getting "The code you entered is not valid" from the Nokia UK site.. has anyone got any suggestions on what could be wrong/what to do next? thanks :)21:20
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tzzjonnylamb: call Nokia support for the store.21:23
ajturnertzz, in my experience Nokia support didn't recognize that code21:28
jonnylambtzz: hmm, i can't find any phone number on their site at all..21:28
jonnylambsearching for "phone" or "phone number" is a bad thing to do on the NOKIA site though!!21:28
hubjonnylamb: search for "contact"21:30
bedboiis it possible to issue a phone order?21:30
hubI think21:30
bedboiwhat about the discount code?21:30
jonnylambhub: i was already on "contact us", but weren't too willing to give out a phone number though! i've got "nokia care"'s number now! if anything, they can put me through to the right person! they're also open until 9pm which is great- hopefully can order tonight :)21:31
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tzzjonnylamb: I hope that works for you.  I was away, sorry.21:38
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jonnylambtzz: me too- thank you :)21:40
jonnylambdoes Nokia delivery these devices pronto, or leave you waiting for ages?21:40
tigertFor what it is worth, I was able to order my n800 over the phone with21:41
tigertminimal trouble- they seem to be aware of the problem and very capable21:41
tigertof handling it. Web site still is unhappy as of about 12:30pm EST."21:41
tigertsays Luis21:41
tigertso, call them21:41
ajturnertigert, when I called they said the code didn't look like any coupon # they've seen before21:42
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bedboitigert: ah, so they are aware of the website problem21:44
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bedboiso it's unlikely to be a bank problem as stated21:44
bedboiisn't it?21:44
jonnylambtigert: aah, thanks very much  :) where was that? or more like, where did i miss that?!21:44
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bedboiwell going21:48
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tigertajturner: let me know if it works out21:50
tigertajturner: so no luck so far?21:50
ajturnertigert - no21:50
tigertjonnylamb: it was from luis' email21:50
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centipedehowdy. Now that my xterm works, getting MC (midnight commander) to run too seems within reach. But I lost it in the wealth of repositories available. Link?22:29
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jaekcan you rotate the orientation of the screen?22:29
jaekdoesn't X allow that?22:29
jaekxrandr or somethingt22:30
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Takx generally allows that through the randr extension, which I don't think is available on the 770 or n80022:30
jaekdamn, i want to use evince & opera rotated22:30
jaeklucky for me, at least fbreader implemented it internally22:31
tzzjaek: the answer is no for now.  The UI is hard-coded to 800x480 according to Nokia people.22:32
booiiinghey people.22:32
booiiingi am trying to use my old ext2-partition from my rs-mmc22:32
booiiingbut the ext2-module won't insmod22:32
Takit's poor form if evince doesn't implement rotation22:33
booiiinggives me "unknown symbol in module (-1): no such file or directory"22:33
booiiingany ideas?22:33
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tomvhi. I have a problem with a fresh scratchbox setup. after succesfully (appearantly) running, the ./ doesn't want to work  (E: Scratchbox version is too old (scratchbox-core ).). any ideas? this is on Debian/sid from the beginning of the year or so.22:41
tzztomv: you should have Scratchbox 1.x packages installed.22:45
tkoyou can never have enough platforms22:45
tomvtzz: well, maemo-scratchbox-install did install 1.0.7 as far as I can tell, but it doesn't seem to want to start (login also fails)22:45
tomv(I used the tgz install, btw.)22:46
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tzztomv: I did a clean install on Etch, it works great from apt-get.22:47
tomvtzz: ok, I'll try that (again)... btw: do I need to have or not have vdso support?22:51
tzztomv: no idea what VDSO means, sorry.22:52
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kulvetomv: I had to enable that on 2.6.18 to get sb working. (I didn't really read the backlog, so I don't really know what you were talkin about)23:01
tomvkulve: thanks, I had the impression that it needed to be disabled - I have that and the install script announces a test and doesn't complain. well, I'll build the kernel.23:02
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MDKtko: seen it23:08
MDKtko: so far only the usual high-hopes crap23:09
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* shapr boings23:24
* shapr hugs Finland23:25
xanMDK, it has a DRM Framework, it's revolutionary stuff23:25
guerbyshapr, developer code side effect :)23:26
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MDKxan: and this is exactly were gpl3 comes into play23:37
|tbb|mgedmin, jaffa and  hap, i figured it out how to get soft poweroff to the top of the menu, just change the priorty from 10 to 100.23:37
|tbb|jaffa, saves muchos power (AFAICT)23:37
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|tbb|what does afaict23:37
Disconnectjust OOC is there any advantage to getting a dev code if you already own an n800? (last time i had time to look at it, the answer was "dunno, we'll think about it"23:38
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guerbyDisconnect, happened to me, I'm looking for dev who didn't get a code (I have one proposal so far)23:42
xanMDK, what does the gpl3 says about DRM23:42
guerbyDisconnect, may be I should create a wiki page on maemo for willing donators23:42
Jaffa|tbb|: As Far As I Can Tell23:42
Disconnectso its "how many n800's do you need?" rather than "hey, check out this new app for the navkit"...23:42
guerbyDisconnect, I already have a N770 too :)23:43
* Disconnect was one of the earliest n800 devs but then work started crashing down around my ears :( but it doesn't matter that much since the codes are only good on a new tablet.. until i brick this one i don't think i need a new one (and yah, still got my 770 too but it may end up being the frontend to the car computer)23:44
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Disconnectgot the backend half-built from when i started it a couple years back (based around a viper board, tons of IO) but it hasn't been assembled in a while23:45
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|tbb|Disconnect: from what u talking about => check out this new app for the navkit23:46
Disconnect|tbb|: if the code could be used on accessories, it'd encourage things like navkit-aware apps (apps drive sales....)23:46
Disconnectif its just for the n800, its a tax on early-adopter devs (eg guerby .. "thanks for being a dev, too bad you bought it already..")23:47
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guerbyDisconnect, I don't mind paying 399 euros to Nokia for this tablet (I want to succeed and I don't develop anyway for now...)23:48
guerbys/I want to/I want it to/23:48
Veggenhmm. the soft poweroff is way better than "lock touch screen and keys".23:49
guerbyVeggen beware of a bug:
Veggendoes it turn off power to wireless and bluetooth, btw?23:50
guerbyVeggen, no wireless stays on (until the specified time out)23:50
Disconnectanyway, i really didn't come here to start a fight :) i'm off, i'll be back this weekend prolly23:51
MDKxan: "gpl3 drm" is your friend ;)23:51
MDKI'm not sure what's the status, it's pretty controversial stuff23:52
xanMDK, I foresee a future of loads of sneakers with bradley talking about gpl323:52
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MDKxan: haha23:53
MDKineed, indeed23:53
suihkulokkiiphone ships with LGPL code (safari), but you can't modify the iPhones browser..23:53
MDKit's actually 'snickers' ;)23:53
xanoh :P23:53
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MDKafaik after the ms vs. novell thing (and possibly some other followers?) gpl3 might have a quicker adoption rate23:54
MDKif gpl3 prevents linking drm code against gpl3 code...23:56
hubsuihkulokki: they are just required to provide the source code23:56
MDKthan we would be in a funny situation indeed23:56
hubsuihkulokki: not necessarily to reflash the device23:56
MDKactually, gpl3 doesn23:57
MDK't prevent linking agains drm code23:57
MDKbut requires you to provide the encryption keys23:57
MDKeffectively rendering the drm code useless23:57
Takyeah, some means of installing the new code23:58
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