IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-07-15

djszapi_ptl: I planned to go to Manaus (?)00:00
djszapi_phew, just ~4000 kms away your place ^^00:01
ptlyes... :P00:01
djszapi_so you are close to Sao Paulo?00:01
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ieatlintthe best thing about bastille day is i can just re-use most of the bunting from the 4th of july00:12
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ptldjszapi_: yes, quite close, but Sao Paulo is too big, too polluted, too traffic-heavy. In Campinas I enjoy a much better quality of life.00:31
RzRi think there is an other guy from SP here too00:44
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RzRieatlint, are you celebrating bastille day ? here thx to the weather all fireworks were cancelled .... time to make a real revolution00:45
MohammadAG<djszapi_> then it does not require anything00:47
MohammadAGit fucking does00:47
djszapi_you randomly ignored the following stuff?00:49
djszapi_according to your taste?00:49
djszapi_or perhaps you do not know how to read syslog00:51
djszapi_that is also an option.00:51
ieatlintRzR: it's about 14c and clear skies out here.. there are several bastille day things going on, but nothing that huge, and i don't think any fireworks planned00:52
ieatlintnice summer day00:53
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ptlis there a dbus call to listen for SMS?00:58
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MohammadAGhave fun
MohammadAGdjszapi_, you're annoying me right now01:11
MohammadAGI said it's not bitching about it on syslog01:12
MohammadAGDBus is rejecting the call01:12
MohammadAGif you know what it needs, say that, if you don't, don't blame me for having a shitty security system on my device01:12
alteregoGood job MohammadAG :)01:13
alteregoThat's a sweet mod01:13
djszapi_MohammadAG: you are annoying others too by not posting syslog etc01:15
djszapi_really hard to help you, if you do not know how to read, and you do not even post to others who know.01:15
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MohammadAGthanks alterego :)01:15
alteregoI don't think caps is necessary MohammadAG01:15
alteregoIf you don't want to talk to him just ignore him :P01:15
djszapi_he thinks, it is, so it is :D01:15
MohammadAGalterego, it is, trust me :p01:15
MohammadAGbut that works too01:16
alteregoI'm currently implementing a new dialer.01:17
alteregoFinally had my last straw with meego-handset-dialer01:17
ptlone that has 3G video calling?01:17
alteregoSo I've been writing one entirely from scratch.01:17
alteregoptl: not yet, but maybe in the future :)01:17
ptlis the N9 capable of that?01:17
azeemwhat's wrong with the dialer01:17
alteregoazeem: this is nemo, not harmattan.01:17
MohammadAGmeego-handset-dialer is a bit, awkward01:18
djszapi_azeem: nothing01:18
azeemalterego: oh, nm01:18
MohammadAGalterego, but it should work on Harmattan right?01:18
* MohammadAG starts looking at libapt01:18
alteregoMohammadAG: with a telepathy-ring backend implemented, yes, (which I plan to do for voip support)01:18
alteregoBut we use ofono on mer/nemo01:19
MohammadAGoh, thought Harmattan used ofono too01:19
alteregoWhich is the backend I've been working on now.01:19
alteregoNeah, Harmattan uses the same phone crap as Fremantle. telepathy-ring and that closed crap under it.01:19
Elleoisn't telepathy-ring just an interface to ofono on harmattan?01:20
Elleoor is that only on standard meego01:20
alteregoElleo: only on standard meego.01:22
djszapi_well, it works01:22
tazzi have packaged stuff for ubuntu a few years a go. How high do you guys think the learning curve would be for me, if i wanted to port a few kde apps for n9?01:22
djszapi_nemo/meego ce/de/whatever has never worked for me01:23
djszapi_in terms of this01:23
MohammadAGtazz, a bit high01:23
MohammadAGyou'll need to write a new UI01:23
alteregodjszapi_: what hasn't worked for you?01:23
azeemI guess packaging is your least problem01:23
djszapi_tazz: it is not high01:24
djszapi_it is very simple01:24
djszapi_same for the packaging, same for the ui01:24
djszapi_and I have done the kde stack already01:24
djszapi_so not much effort needed apart from the app packaging01:24
djszapi_and as for apps, there are examples01:24
djszapi_KDE apps, that is.01:24
djszapi_look at my apps for instance, kanagram or khangman01:25
djszapi_should be fairly trivial and "low".01:25
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djszapi_we have very well documented the procedure as well at the KDE Harmattan sprint.01:25
MohammadAGdjszapi_, same for the UI eh?01:25
MohammadAGcause QWidgets look awesome on Harmattan01:25
tazzMohammadAG, i guess i can ask for help with UI if needed :)01:26
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djszapi_MohammadAG: I know, you know the security better than the security team, and KDE better than the KDE Harmattan team.01:26
djszapi_tazz: ofc01:26
tazzdjszapi_,  right thanks i'll go rtfm right now.01:26
djszapi_we have as well for this01:26
tazzalso first things first.01:26
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tazzso i added the repositories from
louisdkIs it possible to ssh into my N) with Xforwarding option (-X) and be able to open N9 apps on my linux laptop?01:27
tazznow i get the following message whenever i try to install an application
tazzlouisdk, iirc there is an option to just use vnc.01:27
djszapi_louisdk: you can mount stuff on your linux box01:27
djszapi_not sure, if the whole root works, perhaps not01:27
djszapi_though, you do not probably wanna all those repositories in order to avoid conflicts01:28
djszapi_in general, the community repository and the Nokia repository ought to be alright01:28
djszapi_and rarely, when you need anything else.01:28
djszapi_wanna add*01:29
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tazzdjszapi_, right, let me just re-flash and remove all the extra repos. To sort this problem.01:30
tazzi though having a few commandline tools would be nice (screen bash vim) etc...01:31
djszapi_we do have those01:31
ptluninformed question: does the N9 support nfs4 out of the box? I mean, can I mount a NFS4 filesystem from my internal network server?01:32
djszapi_you cannot mount on your N9 afaik01:32
ptleven as root?01:32
djszapi_even as root01:32
ptleven with inception?01:33
djszapi_I may be wrong, and certain types are allowed01:33
djszapi_I have no clue about inception01:33
djszapi_not that I even wanna have, I am afraid.01:33
ptln9-21-3_PR_001:~# mount -t nfs4 /tmp/x01:38
ptlmount: failed, reason given by server: Permission denied01:38
ptlmount: mounting on /tmp/x failed: Bad file descriptor01:38
ptlthe bad file descriptor might be due to aegis01:38
ptlbut I don't know why my server would say 'permission denied'01:38
alteregoShouldn't it be "/films" ?01:39
ptlthe name is right, it's portuguese... :)01:39
djszapi_that is not the problem ...01:39
djszapi_the problem is the security policy.01:39
djszapi_like I said, mounting in, does not work01:39
djszapi_mounting an N9 fs onto your host system ought to work.01:40
ptlfunny that it did not complain about nfs4 support01:40
djszapi_because it does not even allow the operation01:40
djszapi_so why would it analyze further?01:40
djszapi_to make selection, etc01:40
ptlbut I'd have the impression that it would check for compatibility to nfs4 before even trying to talk to the server, because it needs to know the nfs4 protocol to see if it has permission or not.01:42
djszapi_if everything is forbidden, that makes not much sense to me.01:44
djszapi_I think the current behavior makes more sense in that case, which is the case afaik.01:45
alteregoSort of amazing to see how far mer has come in such a short time, when meego failed so utterly.01:46
ptlwhat do you mean, alterego ?01:47
alteregoWhich part?01:47
ptlwith meego, do you refer to harmattan or the pure-bred meego?01:47
djszapi_personally, I do not understand why we need Mer.01:47 as a project01:47
djszapi_what is wrong about arch-arm or ubuntu-arm for embedded?01:47
djszapi_and other distros, why another one?01:47
ptlMer has always had underground protection, I think that is the reason01:47
alteregoWhu have arch-arm and ubuntu-arm?01:48
alteregoWhy not just use mer01:48
ptlMeego tried to seduce the corporate world and depend on it. So it failed01:48
djszapi_alterego: because they have been proven for many years01:48
alteregodjszapi_: bullshit01:48
djszapi_with way huger communities around01:48
djszapi_no, it is not01:48
alteregoI'm not going to get in to a religious debate01:48
djszapi_pandaboard has always been advised with mostly ubuntu-arm or angstrom01:48
djszapi_you can say those people talk "bullshit", but I agree with them to be honest.01:48
djszapi_I do not really see the point of yet another distribution01:49
djszapi_sure, it made sense for Nokia due to the own control01:49
alteregodjszapi_: no one uses them on phones.01:49
djszapi_but as for a community, I do not see much value for more diversion.01:49
alteregoThere is no diversion.01:49
djszapi_why not just improve the already existing solutions?01:49
ptlMer made for rather than merely customized for embedded devices, I think01:49
djszapi_make them usable on phones01:49
alteregoBecause they're completely inadequate.01:49
djszapi_instead of creating yet another one.01:49
ptlthat seems a good enough reason01:49
djszapi_no, they are not.01:50
alteregodjszapi_: what difference does it make? It's all the same bloody packages.01:50
djszapi_and mer is not just for phones anyway01:50
alteregoSo what if it doesn't have "ubuntu" in the name?01:50
alteregoubuntu-arm isn't designed to run on always on devices.01:50
djszapi_actually, ubuntu phone is coming01:50
djszapi_so I do not honestly see how it is more inadequate than mer01:51
ptlyeah, it's coming01:51
alteregoI can't think of a single distro out there that is designed to run on an always-on battery powered device.01:51
ptltoo much in the future01:51
djszapi_mer is not really proven for phones either anyway01:51
alteregodjszapi_: actually it is.01:51
djszapi_and way more people working on ubuntu-arm anyway01:51
ptlNext year let's see who wins, Ubuntu phone or Jolla's Mer-derived distro01:51
alteregodjszapi_: we've been running it on phones since it began.,01:51
ptlI bet on both :D I'll probably buy one of them01:51
djszapi_yeah, and apps crash...01:51
alteregodjszapi_: what apps?01:51
djszapi_huge usability issues...01:51
alteregodjszapi_: and that isn't mer's fault ..01:51
djszapi_(not my opinion only)01:51
alteregodjszapi_: don't get nemo and mer confused ..01:52
djszapi_it is01:52
ptlInstead of complaining, I rejoice on it01:52
djszapi_since backtrace dumps about core stuff01:52
ptlI like having Mer and Ubuntu phone01:52
alteregodjszapi_: m'hmm, well I'm sure they'll be fixed.01:52
alteregodjszapi_: and you're implying ubuntu arm wouldn't have these issues?01:52
djszapi_I am not getting the point of yet another distro from scratch01:52
alteregodjszapi_: it's hardly from scratch.01:52
ptlIt's not just yet another distro01:52
ptlMer is quite old, actually01:52
alteregodjszapi_: and I've told you, but who cares what you think?01:53
ptland has proven solutions that work01:53
djszapi_alterego: same for you01:53
djszapi_please do not be this hostile for getting a personal opinion01:53
alteregodjszapi_: then don't shit on peoples opinions.01:53
djszapi_I like collaborating with existing solutions01:53
djszapi_instead of reinventing the wheel01:53
ptlUbuntu-arm appeared after Mer, isn't it?01:53
ptlI mean01:53
djszapi_sure, MeeGo made sense to Nokia since they did not wanna contribute to open source communities due to not be dependent01:54
alteregoptl: yeah.01:54
ptlMer is older01:54
djszapi_but as for a community? Why another? why 101th ?01:54
djszapi_ptl: no, it has not.01:54
azeemubuntu-arm isn't really a community thing01:54
djszapi_ptl: ubuntu-arm is actually a quite old project01:54
djszapi_azeem: it surely is.01:54
alteregodjszapi_: because it makes sense. ubuntu, fedora, etc. Are not tailored to run under the conditions our primary vendors focus.01:54
djszapi_you can contribute patches, etc01:54
ptloh, come on01:55
azeemyou could contribute patches to meego as well, I'm sure01:55
ptlit's done by now01:55
alteregoIt was less effort to start from scratch and use the tools from other distros to create a tailored and easily customisable solution.01:55
ptllet's help both.01:55
djszapi_azeem: why would I contribute to 101th project?01:55
alteregoWe do help both.01:55
ptlbecause it's popular01:55
djszapi_instead of contributing to just less?01:55
azeemdjszapi_: beats me01:55
alteregoWe upstream everything.01:55
djszapi_I am not getting the point of the point "Yet another distribution".01:55
djszapi_there are already a huge diversion in the open source world.01:55
djszapi_it is so bad to see this all the time again.01:56
alteregodjszapi_: then why don't you go tell the ubuntu arm guys to join mer?01:56
azeemsays the person pushing Ubuntu01:56
djszapi_alterego: why would they?01:56
djszapi_Ubuntu has a way larger community01:56
alteregoAnd the fedora arm guys, they should join mer too, why another distro djszapi_ ?01:56
djszapi_so has arm01:56
alteregoWhy another distro?01:56
alteregodjszapi_: oh, community size ..01:56
djszapi_fedora != ubuntu01:56
ptlWhy another OS? Why not just stick with Android?01:57
djszapi_both have been existing for ages01:57
djszapi_they will of course do their way now.01:57
alteregoSo we should have gone to ubuntu and said, we want to do an arm port of your hidiously bulky linux distribution because you're popular.01:57
djszapi_but why 101th ?01:57
alteregothat sounds like rather retarded reasoning ..01:57
alteregodjszapi_: ask them?01:57
alteregomer predates ubuntu arm,01:57
alteregoAs did meego01:57
ptlpredates as in 'does what a predator do'? :P01:57
alteregowell, maybe not entirely meego ..01:57
azeemat least the corporate-controlled ubuntu arm01:58
azeemthere probably was a community port way back when01:58
alteregoGod, why OS X?01:58
alteregoWhy Windows?01:58
djszapi_alterego: not quite01:58
alteregoWhy doesn't everyone use Plan 901:58
djszapi_we started arch-arm way ago meego01:58
djszapi_beagle board is not a new device01:58
alteregoChrist, why Nokia? Why Motorolla, why Apple iPhone?01:58
azeemwho cares about arch?01:58
alteregoWhy don't we all just use the same bloody phone ..01:58
azeemeverybody should've just used NeXTStep01:59
azeemoh weait01:59
djszapi_alterego: now that is the bullshit01:59
alteregodjszapi_: no more bullshit than what you're saying.01:59
djszapi_we are not discussing Apple, Motorola, nokia here01:59
alteregoLike you said, this is all your opinion01:59
djszapi_we are discussing the Linux way01:59
alteregoAnd we all know what opinions mean in the real world ...01:59
djszapi_and that bloody fact, we have tons of reinventation01:59
djszapi_even just inside Linux01:59
ptlOk, Mer and Ubuntu-arm are close enough to question why either of them isn't the only one on the block. I think we all get that?01:59
djszapi_we are not even there to discuss wider scope01:59
djszapi_and this situation makes me cry01:59
ptlAnd so we discuss here, and get to a conclusion: everyone should just use {Ubuntu arm|Mer}.02:00
alteregoptl: not really, mer is nothing like ubuntu, has complete different targets and goals :)02:00
djszapi_why cannot we just have less, but more quality solutions?02:00
ptlWill anything change at all?02:00
azeemptl: first off, Ubuntu isn't a community-driven distribution, and certainly not primarly targetted at embedded systems02:00
alteregoNot to mention the package management systems02:00
alteregoWe have different build systems, different filesystem image creation tools.02:00
ptlI know, azeem and alterego, but even with that, they are similar enough02:00
djszapi_azeem: he did not say ubuntu02:00
djszapi_azeem: he said ubuntu arm02:00
djszapi_please do not confuse02:00
azeemWTF is ubuntu arm?02:00
djszapi_alterego: yes, but why?02:01
alteregoazeem: ubuntu compiled for arm.02:01
djszapi_but in fact, no you do not02:01
djszapi_rpm has been existing for ages02:01
djszapi_and OBS is not only used by meego anyway02:01
alteregodjszapi_: I don't get your point?02:01
ptlI just say that we can spin around arguing about this all the time, it will get nowhere, it won't change the development of either distro, it will accomplish nothing...02:01
djszapi_actually it was not created by meego in the first place02:01
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alteregoWhy are you on a religious crusade? It's such a waste of time.02:01
ptlI, for one, am enthusiastic for both02:01
azeemthe only difference between Ubuntu for arm and Ubuntu for x86 is that arm is support from that consortium02:01
alteregoAccept Mer, or shutup :P02:01
alteregoBut don't say we should have started the ubuntu arm project.02:02
ptlaccept both and shutup! What about that ?:P02:02
djszapi_alterego: because people dislike NIH for good02:02
alteregoJoining debian arm would have made _far_ more sense.02:02
alteregoAs that was in someway maemo's upstream.02:02
djszapi_you can say to everybody "NIH is good, you are just a religious nazi".02:02
azeemnot invented here02:02
djszapi_and I will be on the other side with that thinking.02:02
djszapi_I would really like to see more collaboration and less diversion between communities02:02
azeemdjszapi_: Ubuntu is like, NIH to the extreme02:03
* alterego sighs02:03
djszapi_azeem: we are not discussing Ubuntu02:03
djszapi_azeem: you did not still get the basic point02:03
ptlWhat I would like: to apt-get install bash and screen without conflicting with the N9 base system.02:03
azeemdjszapi_: you keep doing it02:03
djszapi_we have been discussing MANY existing solutions02:03
azeembtw, I'm a ubuntu dev02:03
alteregoI dev on ubuntu :)02:04
ptlhmmmm.... Unity on the harmattan successor, what about that?02:04
alteregoI wouldn't want it running on a freakin' phone ..02:04
* ptl loves Unity02:04
* djszapi_ really wonders why people confuse Ubuntu with ubuntu-arm, arch-arm, fedora-arm etc02:04
alteregoUnity is "okay", generally stays out of my way. But it's buggy as hell and was released way too early.02:04
azeemdjszapi_: how the hell is it any different?02:04
djszapi_ubuntu arm & arch-arm & fedora arm != desktop ubuntu02:04
alteregodjszapi_: maybe it's the damn name.02:04
alteregodjszapi_: they are though, just cross-compiled repositories.02:05
azeemso ubuntu-arm is cross-compiled?02:05
djszapi_alterego: no, they are not02:05
alteregothe install process is different, but they're the same packages ..02:05
ptlalterego: agree with buggy as hell and released way too early, but I found it to be way more productive to my previous desktop setup (which I have been using on both KDE and Gnome for like 10 years)02:05
azeemsame source packages, ight02:05
djszapi_alterego: I am running a ubuntu "server" edition on my Pandaboard.02:05
ptl*productive than my previous02:05
djszapi_and it is vastly different to that what you use on your desktop02:05
djszapi_again, VASTLY02:05
alteregodjszapi_: same packages, different installation process.02:05
alteregoIt's not vastly.02:05
djszapi_and that could even be truncated further to a phone image, if needed02:06
azeemdjszapi_: is it built from different source packages?02:06
djszapi_instead of diverging just for the sake of diverging02:06
alteregoJust because you apt-get different packages doesn't make it any different.02:06
azeemlike nurturing emdebian02:06
alteregoemdebian is a bloody mess.02:06
alteregoAnd debian has an even _bigger_ community than ubuntu ..02:06
djszapi_fix the shortcoming if any02:06
djszapi_but again, why diverging?02:06
djszapi_to show you are the "someone"?02:07
ptlOk, now I am angry. Why you apt-get different packages at all then? The distro should follow a more regular pattern not depending on architecture.02:07
djszapi_That is not mature.02:07
alteregoBecause debian is slow at adopting, and the amount of red tape involved in being involved ..02:07
djszapi_working together on solving problems, is not bad02:07
djszapi_there are tons of distributions already.02:07
djszapi_also for embedded.02:07
alteregoWho says we don't work with other people?02:07
alteregoDidn't I just say that developers in mer are upstreamed?02:07
alteregoMer is built from maemo, meego, moblin, fedora, suse.02:08
djszapi_the distribution is not about the upstreaming...02:08
alteregoI'd say that's working with others' ..02:08
djszapi_they are *downstream*02:08
djszapi_and downstream is reinvented here.02:08
alteregodjszapi_: exactly, so we benifit everyone.02:08
azeemdjszapi_: you won't change people's minds, deal with it02:08
alteregodjszapi_: as much as I really enjoy having this completely boring and unproductive conversation with you ...02:08
alteregoI actually don't care enough to continue.02:08
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ptlthis is a bit rude to djszapi_ but I'd say that I agree too. This is counter-productive because people already made their minds for one distro or another. It's just like that, whoever works on either does prefer one or another advantage it offers.02:11
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djszapi_ptl: yeah, they sadly share the community around linux phones that could work together02:12
djszapi_I mean they share further, and ofc nothing I can do until they do not change their mind towards collaboration02:13
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djszapi_but ofc, I can tell my opinion, and I did that.02:13
azeemthanks for that02:13
djszapi_they change*02:14
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ptlI think that if the projects get similar enough and they found it is too much duplicated effort, they will eventually merge02:15
ptlor at least share packages and some stuff02:15
djszapi_let us move onto a different topic instead, I would suggest.02:16
ptlI'd agree with you in a general way, but the FOSS world just does not work like that, duplication of effort is something you have to get along with... Sometimes it's good02:16
djszapi_ptl: which KDE application(s) would you like to port?02:23
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ptldjszapi_: Yakuake :P :P :P02:31
djszapi_you should talk to Eike about that02:31
djszapi_if I am not mistaken.02:31
djszapi_Hein, the author02:31
ptlActually I don't think yakuake fits in a mobile02:32
ptlI was kidding02:32
ptlI don't know what KDE application I would like to port because it's difficult to think about such an application that would be useful in a mobile phone.02:32
djszapi_I think it fits with a different ui02:32
djszapi_why ?02:32
djszapi_you just need to have a usable UI concept.02:32
djszapi_even kontact is ported.02:33
djszapi_(though that one is really not too mobile'ish)02:33
ptlI just don't know02:34
ptlI am trying to get to a kde app that would help me.02:34
ptlAh, okular.02:34
ptlIt's a nice pdf reader.02:34
djszapi_I would recommend starting with a simpler..02:35
ptlkeepassx is QT, not KDE, but I loveit02:35
ptlthere was keepassx for the N90002:35
ptlI used that02:36
djszapi_what about making a usable irc client?02:37
djszapi_we do not have such a thing currently...02:38
djszapi_or a gerrit client :)02:38
djszapi_for the qt project02:39
ptlI use irssi with fingerterm02:39
ptlbut yeah, for other people it would be nice02:40
ptlI don't know what gerrit is02:40
ptlgoogled and found it02:40
ptlgit is really nice indeed02:41
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djszapi_Qt != QT02:43
djszapi_tazz: that is not based on tp02:46
djszapi_which is IMO an architectural need on Harmattan02:46
djszapi_to integrate with the account system02:46
djszapi_in addition, heard of lots of complaints about bugs and non-implemented features.02:47
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ptlQt is the toolkit. What is QT?02:54
djszapi_Quick Time.02:54
ptlah, ok02:55
ptlDo you pronounce Qt as 'cute'? Maybe that's because I am a non-native english speaker, but I find it silly.02:57
djszapi_read the first sentence on the wikipedia page, please.02:58
ieatlintptl: nah, native english speakers are less likely to pronounce it "cute" in my experience for that very reason03:01
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ieatlintand the correct form is Q.T.03:01
ieatlintit's an acronym of Quasar Technologies03:03
ptldjszapi_: it says both forms are "used"... Qt (play /ˈkjuːt/ "cute", or unofficially as Q-T cue-tee03:03
djszapi_ieatlint: lol03:04
djszapi_ptl: so use the official? Or what is your question?03:05
ieatlintdjszapi_: :P03:05
ieatlintthe part about native english speakers being more likely to say "cue-tee" is true in my experience03:08
ieatlintthe rest has just enough grain of truth to piss off people who take it too seriously :P03:09
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djszapi_well, cue-tee is just incorrect03:10
djszapi_and usually it is not a good thing to mix brand names up03:10
djszapi_or even pronounciation and the like03:10
djszapi_consistency is not a bad thing.03:11
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ptldjszapi_: might be but I'm uncomfortable with pronouncing "cute". It sounds silly and it's difficult to recognize as a toolset/framework in an informational talk. You have to explain.04:07
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GeneralAntillesIs anybody collection square lockscreen wallpapers for Harmattan?05:56
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HeyCan anyone here me?07:26
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befordhere you07:27
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djszapi_beford: you had to say "no" :p07:53
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HurrianSo guys, my device's probably going to be delivered in ~24 hours.09:20
HurrianHow do you recommend I take control of it?09:20
HurrianI'm thinking a clean PR1.3 001 flash, remove View-openmode and flashing an open mode kernel.09:21
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djszapi_ajalkane: sup with qt5 on harmattan12:14
ajalkanedjszapi_: waiting for new QtSDK to see if it has any support12:15
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vladestajalkane: are you really thinks that there will be any new qtSDK?12:32
ajalkanevladest: Yes I do. But I'm a bit pessimistic that there will be Qt5 harmattan target there.12:33
* vladest doesnt expecting qtsdk anymore12:34
djszapi_ajalkane: perhaps there will be even a qt6 target :)12:34
vladestat least from nokia12:34
vladestwher to see activity for qtsdk?12:34
ajalkanevladest: at least QtCreator is open source, that might give some hints12:34
djszapi_ajalkane: this is better:
djszapi_and about gitorious: :D :D12:37
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djszapi_any similarity with the reality is just an accident =)12:38
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djszapi_beford: o/12:44
akbaarhello e-yes12:49
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RzRhi pple12:55
djszapi_sup RzR12:55
djszapi_go to package ocaml :p12:55
RzRjust after I die12:56
djszapi_it will be too late :p12:56
ZogG_laptop morning12:57
RzRthen kill me now12:57
djszapi_killall -9 rzr12:57
e-yesf*ck the morning12:57
RzRSun Jul 15 11:57:40 CEST 201212:57
RzR3min and morning is over over here12:57
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ZogG_laptope-yes: sup12:58
djszapi_less than 3 ;)12:58
ZogG_laptopthe morning is when u wake up and not when time says you it's morning =)12:58
RzRbtw e-yes have u tested a vnc server on nitdroid ? i didnt manage to export the display12:58
e-yesno. why do you need it?12:59
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RzRjust to type numbers :) n950 kb is not supporting the alt key :)13:02
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infobotugt is, like, Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: that's what i said =)13:50
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DocScrutinizer05<RzR> Sun Jul 15 11:57:40 CEST 2012  <RzR> 3min and morning is over over here    <djszapi_> less than 3 ;)   -- yes Sir, everybody in here is assumed to be able to read time values like 11:57:40.   if something ends in 2min20 it doesn't mean the statement "it will be over in 3 min" is false14:15
RzRn*24h and 3mins is also true14:20
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to adapt his proposed post-account and nr-of-posts-limiter for tmo to IRC14:27
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djszapi_DocScrutinizer05: please get angry about jokes15:19
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djszapi_that is what they are for, after all :D15:20
DocScrutinizer05it's just >>[2012-07-15 00:26:18] <djszapi_> MohammadAG: I know, you know the security better than the security team, and KDE better than the KDE Harmattan team.<< while YOU obviously know better about *everything*15:22
djszapi_well, one should not play the smart role about something that others did.15:22
djszapi_especially if that person has no any clue about the subject.15:23
DocScrutinizer05so I conclude you did this universe, including time and space in it15:23
DocScrutinizer05dang, God should bow down and praise you15:24
clauI keep hearing about problems after upgrade to pr1.3. Is there anything I should know before doing it?15:25
claucurrently I am not offered the upgrade, but I expect it'll happen in the next couple of weeks15:25
djszapi_clau: what problems?15:25
claueverything is slow for instance15:25
clauI think I heard this around here too15:25
clauhonestly I did an upgrade from 1.1 to 1.2 right after I got the phone and I had absolutely no problem15:26
djszapi_ohh certain people said that for any updates :)15:26
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djszapi_I have not been able to verify that personally.15:26
claumaybe they are expecting too much :)15:26
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi_: no offense but aegis is ... how to say it to you, is wrong thing, and i'm not sying it only as i want to really own my phone, but it just is15:42
djszapi_ZogG_laptop: personal opinion has nothing to do with how it behaves15:44
djszapi_personal opinion is a one thing, and no offense taken.15:44
djszapi_but when someone tries to explain how something works I wrote, when it has never worked that way, that is ... hefty.15:45
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi_: it's not about how it's written as i can say anything on it15:46
ZogG_laptopit's the purpose how it works and what it is for15:46
djszapi_ZogG_laptop: you changed the subject. It was not the problem yesterday.15:47
ZogG_laptopi don't know what was the problem yesterday obv15:47
ZogG_laptopi just talking about aegis =)15:47
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azeemclau: one problem is that if the browser times out, it clears the URL so one cannot reasily reload it later15:51
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Creteilhi all15:53
CreteilI'm actually fighting with tracker-sparql trying to find a record causing troubles in face recognition selection steps ...15:54
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Creteilso ... a query like : tracker-sparql --query="select ?u ?ng ?nf { ?u a nco:Contact; nco:nameGiven ?ng; nco:nameFamily ?nf . }"16:38
Creteilreport all of my Contacts PLUS a blank line at the end of the query result.16:38
CreteilThis end up in a 2 names proposal in the face recognition selection steps, look at here :
CreteilIf someone have an idea, feel free to explain me :-)16:39
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* MohammadAG thinks out loud
MohammadAGanyone wanna help with the backend? :P17:04
azeemwhat does Uninstall do?17:05
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MohammadAGallow you to remove packages? it's a package manager17:10
Lava_Croftoh nice MohammadAG !17:10
Lava_Crofta proper package manager!17:10
MohammadAGbeen looking at Cydia and Fapman for help with apt17:11
DocScrutinizer05"Go! kill the ovi, bring it to me! go1"17:11
MohammadAGseems a bit complex17:11
Lava_Croftyes kill ovi17:11
Lava_Croftanything that makes me pay for applications and then only allows me to download them like 5 times can die in a ditch17:11
Lava_Crofthorribly, slowly and painfully17:11
djszapi_Lava_Croft: well, it is too late to complain17:12
DocScrutinizer05die in a DDoS17:12
Lava_Croftdjszapi_: its not a complaint17:12
djszapi_we did that about two years ago17:12
Lava_Crofti just want it to die17:12
Lava_Crofti dont want it to improve17:12
djszapi_it was late for that time, even17:12
Lava_Croftsoon i wont be able to install Billboard again, i reckon :D17:12
DocScrutinizer05though I guess ovi doesn't need any DDoS to die by own multi-organ-failure17:13
MohammadAGMTF really needs to be fixed17:15
DocScrutinizer05MTF needs to be given a chance17:16
Stskeepsdead upstream, what's not to love about it17:16
MohammadAGstill better than QML :P17:17
DocScrutinizer05if by dead upstream you mean Nokia's relation to OVI, then I concur17:17
MohammadAGMTF isn't maintained anymoer17:17
djszapi_officially it is, but not by Nokia.17:18
MohammadAGit was dropped in favor of the much slower, less mature QML17:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah QML :-/17:18
DocScrutinizer05the me-too-dalvik17:19
Lava_Croftas an end-user, QML isnt pretty handy!17:22
Lava_Croftis* errr17:22
MohammadAGQML is handy for quick fancy UIs17:23
MohammadAGthe power of QGraphicsView was demonstrated in stuff like TweeGo17:23
Lava_Crofti specifically mentioned myself as an end-user, because im well aware of the (almost always) present problem with such systems17:24
Lava_CroftI reckon QML stuff doesnt look and work as pretty under the hood17:24
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MohammadAGoh yay, bouncer's back17:24
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passiHi, can anyone tell me what the cause for a 'X-Loader image is too big' error can be? I can't find any docs for it.17:27
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DocScrutinizer05"Nokia Internet Tablet - the power of a PC at your palm" what became of that?17:30
MohammadAGMicrosoft Surface? :P17:30
Lava_CroftNokia had all the tech and the people17:30
Lava_Croftmuch like MS had or has all the tech and the people to get things right17:31
Lava_Croftbut they just dont:<17:31
DocScrutinizer05it turned into "Nokia Nseries - the me-too-fruitphone with a dash of the green trashbin"17:31
DocScrutinizer05and now hooker17:31
Lava_Crofti thought i was choking on my coffee when i heard the name 'Lumia' for the first time17:32
MohammadAGI read it as Lumina first17:32
Lava_Crofti knew it meant prostitute17:32
DocScrutinizer05which is colecting dust in the shelfs as Flop managed to define it so it never will run winphone817:32
Lava_Croftit means prostitute in spanish17:32
MohammadAGit means prostitute?17:32
djszapi__lol, you did not know that ? :)17:33
MohammadAGnope, must've missed it17:33
djszapi__that is why it was funny when they wanted to show that up at MWC17:33
Lava_Croftthats why i have always been half-happy with the Lumia's17:33
djszapi__since it was in Spain17:33
Lava_Croftsince the name implies this is just a temporary solution17:33
djszapi__and it means that in Spanish :)17:33
Lava_Crofti still have to see any human in real life thats using a Lumia17:34
djszapi__well, I sold my Lumia to a person17:34
Lava_CroftI would like a Lumia, just for having it17:34
djszapi__and I know many using those, way more than N9s, sadly.17:34
Lava_Croftits still a pretty thing ot look at!17:34
MohammadAGI used it for a month17:34
Lava_Croftwell, as a smartphone OS, i think windows isnt too bad17:35
MohammadAGthen I realized it was a bit of a limited device17:35
Lava_Croftwell, yeah17:35
Lava_Croftmost smartphones are, if not all17:35
djszapi__features phones are less limited :)17:36
Lava_Crofti had a galaxy nexus for a week, but it was mostly the same experience17:36
Lava_Croftonly slower and more annoying17:36
Lava_Crofti wonder if its a good idea to talk about RIM some more17:36
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: now you finally get that comment of the casual bystander in the buss ranting to you "Oh! you got your own personal lunmia!" and smiling while winking at you ;-P17:36
Lava_Croftso i dont have to feel so bad for Nokia17:36
Lava_Crofteveryone i ask says they love the how the lumia looks17:37
Lava_Croftbut these days having a nokia is just something bad:<17:37
MohammadAGI used an SGSII for two weeks, it wasn't bad17:37
Lava_Croftno matter the software17:37
MohammadAGin fact with ICS, I'm considering one17:37
MohammadAGI just don't imagine myself developing anything for android17:37
Lava_Croftgalaxy nexus came with ics, but i dont see whats so good about it17:38
Lava_Croftit just feels patchy to me17:38
MohammadAGyou haven't used Gingerbread then :P17:38
Lava_Croftapart from being slow17:38
Lava_Crofti have :)17:38
MohammadAGICS is a huge improvement to GB17:38
Lava_Croftyes, but still its pretty incoherent17:38
MohammadAGit's still android though17:38
Lava_Croftand its multitasking is errr17:38
Lava_Croftmind you, i went from nokia 5510 to n90017:38
MohammadAGiOS5 is what made me consider an iPhone/iPod17:38
Lava_Croftmy Nexus7 should arrive on friday17:39
MohammadAGThe N9 I got reduced my iPhone usage17:39
Lava_Crofti ordered one via a friend in the US17:39
Lava_Croftiphone is awesome for games17:39
MohammadAGmainly cause of the better battery (compared to the N950)17:39
Lava_Croftother than that, i dont need one17:39
MohammadAGI don't game :/17:39
Lava_Croftits the only thing i can do on an iphone17:40
MohammadAGI got it for the closed proprietary stuff most people I know are using17:40
MohammadAGWhatsApp, Viber etc17:40
MohammadAGand Waze17:40
Lava_Croftmy wife is an iphone person, she loves hers17:40
Lava_Croftand i steal her iphone4 to play games:)17:40
MohammadAGcan't stand those :P17:40
Lava_Crofttheres no need to jb for her17:40
Lava_Croftim biased when it comes to mobiles tho, since the n900 is my first and standard 'smartphone' experience17:41
Lava_Crofti knew iphones and androids, but never used em daily, for a longer period17:41
Lava_Crofti always get annoyed by iOS and outright pissed at android17:41
djszapi__well, the harmattan design did try to follow the iphone way.17:42
Lava_Croftsadly, yes17:42
Lava_Croftbut the overall experience is much better17:42
Lava_Croftmultitasking <317:42
djszapi__I was developing for it almost two years ago, when my woman acquaintance already had such a thing in her hands, what we were developing :)17:42
Lava_Crofti wished they just stuck with pure Maemo17:42
djszapi__really, the design is not that a lot different.17:43
Lava_Croftbut mehhh17:43
djszapi__Although, I like the iphone design, but still, it is not individual this way, how it could have been.17:43
Lava_Croftthats the feel of the N9 software, yes17:43
DocScrutinizer05my whyPhone experience: "I need to send him a SMS, I forgot my N900 at home. Gimme your spyPhone!" "here..."  "DAFAQ! how do I send SMS?" "wait... here.. and then... umm.. and now..."  "OK thanks. Hope I get it now. ... WHAT THE FSCK is *that*?? I can't type a single word on that 'keyboard'"17:43
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer05: you have trouble adjusting!17:44
Lava_Croftiphone keyboard actually isnt that bad17:44
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MohammadAGit's actually good17:45
MohammadAGthe way it predicts stuff, even arabic swear words written in English letters, freaks me out17:45
DocScrutinizer05I *hate* that crrappy capacitive touchscreen 'keyboards'17:45
Lava_Crofti turn prediction off, always17:45
Lava_Croftand i cant hate on a silly gadget17:46
MohammadAGI don't, if it's not automatic17:46
MohammadAGthere's a JB tweak that makes prediction show the word, but to insert it you have to click it17:46
DocScrutinizer05they way it 'predicts' what I want to write - just 100% false... freaks me out17:46
MohammadAGthe default behavior on an iPhone is to insert the word unless you click it17:46
Lava_Crofti dont like my computer thinking for me when it comes to typing, thats all17:46
Lava_Crofti have to go, bb! o/17:46
djszapi__have fun17:47
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DocScrutinizer05this predictive keybord thing makes me sound like an illiterate or I use a vocabulary like thise braindamaged FB-kids. I want to sound like the idiot *I* am, though. Not like one of *that* kind of idiots17:49
tazzi am stuck at 95% download for, the page wont get me resume download using wget.17:50
tazzHow else should i go forward. If i want to continue from 95% ?17:50
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, actually I use it mainly for punctuation :P17:50
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tazzthis is not exactly an on topic question, but i couldnt think of a better place to ask this.17:51
djszapi__tazz: wget -c ?17:51
djszapi__after knowing the url17:51
MohammadAGhe already said it won't let him17:51
DocScrutinizer05tazz: anyway, first make a copy of what you got so far!17:51
tazzdjszapi__, there is a page where you have to click "I Accept" before it lets me go forward.17:51
MohammadAGtazz, you'll need to accept, export cookies as a netscape cookie file, then load that cookie file with wget17:52
tazzDocScrutinizer05, yup already done. Tried to resume using chrome/firefox/etc... didnt work.17:52
MohammadAGtazz, what did you start the download with?17:52
hiemanshutazz: use cookie.txt exporter and use that, there are chrome/firefox extenstions17:52
DocScrutinizer05tazz: listen to MohammadAG, he knows his way around17:53
hiemanshutazz: then wget --load-cookies cookie.txt -c should do it17:53
MohammadAGthat's what I used17:53
tazzshall try  the cookie method.17:53
djszapi__it should be viable by wget, yep17:53
hiemanshuyo MohammadAG17:53
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MohammadAGyo hiemanshu17:53
MohammadAGsup dawg17:53
tazzMohammadAG, i was using harmattan-sdk-setup.py17:53
MohammadAGtazz, wonder what that uses...17:54
DocScrutinizer05python? ;-P17:54
hiemanshuMohammadAG: writing a nmap frontend :P17:54
djszapi__so "it will let you".17:54
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, yeah, but it might be using os.system("wget") :P17:55
DocScrutinizer05that's what it probably does, yes17:55
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MohammadAGhiemanshu, dump that and strip fapman's code of UI stuff for me :P17:55
MohammadAGthen write a backend for
hiemanshuMohammadAG: this is for the maemo contest so I can get a N9, I'll do that next with you :)17:56
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passidid anyone see problems with the size of the X-Loader image so far? I can't seem to be able to flash my N9 due to that18:13
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DocScrutinizer05I'm not even sure there's such a thing like a plain xloader image18:17
passiit's the error I get when trying to flash the standard DFL61 image18:18
DocScrutinizer05usually a cmdline parameters error18:20
DocScrutinizer05or image to flash been corrupted by download18:20
passiok, will try to download again18:20
DocScrutinizer05do a md5sum18:20
DocScrutinizer05check your commadline18:21
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djszapi__DocScrutinizer05: so what are you hacking nowadays on?18:35
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djszapi__MohammadAG: you would use a C++ API for scenegraphs in Qt5 instead of qtquick2?18:56
rzrn950 @ 2KEUR !
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qwazix_open("/dev/fb1", O_RDWR); gives me permission denied when run as user, what could it be?19:06
djszapi__read write ?19:06
djszapi__most likely you cannot write19:06
djszapi__try from the console...19:06
qwazix_Code is verbatim from fcam example19:06
qwazix_and if I just build from scratchbox it works19:07
qwazix_If I open the project in Qt creator, it gives error, so it probably is some permission thingie19:07
qwazix_manifest.aegis and syspart.conf seem correct19:07
djszapi__use sb, it is that simple :)19:07
djszapi__QtCreator to the trash !19:08
qwazix_mm, I think that Qt creator has already made the change that breaks it though, so I would like to find what it is19:08
qwazix_or I'll have to start copying code block by block to see where the problem lies19:09
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qwazix_djszapi__, it works through sb fine even now :), so I'll just use sb for final builds19:15
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Stskeepswhat does cat /sys/devices/omapdss/display0/rotate say on your n9s ?21:07
Stskeepshm, interesting21:07
Stskeepsand tear_elim in same directory?21:08
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azeemwhoa, I managed to segfault Drive21:22
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azeemcan I dump the content of a QML structure/object to the console somehow?21:25
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tazz_you know what would be a badass idea? NES emulator for harmattan.21:35
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azeemwell, for the N950 maybe, I guess without hardware buttons it is not much fun21:37
phakotazz_: er21:37
phakotazz_: there's one21:37
phakotazz_: emumaster21:37
tazz_azeem, neither do iphones and samsung galaxy phones.21:38
tazz_phako, this is really cool thanks.21:39
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: sup21:40
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i saw your post about repos future and your opinion about COBS21:40
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i think you should take part in next council meeting or OBS transfer meeting =)21:41
MohammadAGNth much, helping someone with and i can't figure it out21:42
MohammadAGI hate cobs21:42
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djszapi__c-obs will be gone anyway21:42
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: the point that people who are responsible for future structure don't really know what devs opinions are21:44
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i'm thinking idea of cobs is fine, but it need to be re-done and not changing existing one to work with fremantle/harmattan21:45
djszapi__again, c-obs will be gone21:45
djszapi__it is not going to be re-done21:45
djszapi__it is not possible.21:46
djszapi__it indeed needs changing, and it was discussed21:46
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: what are you talking about?21:48
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djszapi__ZogG_laptop: you do not know anything about all these things?21:48
djszapi__This has been a long story.21:48
ZogG_laptopi'mm talking about work done to port fremantle garage to cobs and including there harmattan for future structure for maemo community21:48
djszapi__was mentioned at many times in public21:48
ZogG_laptopand it's going right now21:48
ZogG_laptopso cobs is what you would have for harmattan and fremantle future.21:49
ZogG_laptopso it's time to speak up now and do something about it21:49
djszapi__again, it is *not* possible21:50
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: and no, i mean re-done is not taking cobs and changing. i mean to take idea and make own thing21:50
djszapi__you are proposing something which will be gone pretty soon21:50
djszapi__cool job!21:50
djszapi__I will look for the meeting minutes later.21:50
djszapi__when we discussed this in open.21:50
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: check the last council meeting21:50
djszapi__I really do not know need to.21:51
djszapi__the people who matained the c-obs for Harmattan are not council members.21:51
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djszapi__and we discussed this with people who have actually been working on this.21:52
djszapi__do not need to*21:52
ZogG_laptopbut X-Fade is now working on it21:53
ZogG_laptopwhat are you talking about?21:53
djszapi__meh21:54 was considered as an option in May.21:56
djszapi__that is not community obs21:56
djszapi__again, that is not community obs.21:56
ZogG_laptopman why are you so stuborn21:56
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ZogG_laptopdo i need to f put your face in log?21:56
djszapi__was even a topic already in April to move *away* cobs:
djszapi__they say the same22:10
djszapi__no cobs, please.22:10
ZogG_laptopit's me saying no cobs22:10
djszapi__there will be a replacement with an own obs solution, as far as I read.22:10
ZogG_laptopit will be based on something like build.meego.con as i understand22:10
ZogG_laptopand it might be different here and there but pretty the same22:11
djszapi__well nope22:11
djszapi__it is going to be done for maemo22:11
djszapi__with upstream obs22:11
ZogG_laptopit would be done for BOTH22:11
djszapi__also, I do not see point of a fremantle target, but if someone is that desperate why not...22:13
djszapi__it is just a maintenance overhead for not much gain.22:13
djszapi__I'd rather see a working solution for one target properly at the same time22:13
djszapi__we all know how much pain it was just to get one Harmattan target right...22:13
ZogG_laptopyou are more harmattan guy but maemo community is more maemo community and harmattan is just small part22:17
djszapi__are you sure about the "jus small part" ?22:18
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: yes22:19
djszapi__show me activity this much outside Harmattan22:19
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: one of the reasons is aegis btw =)22:19
djszapi__in the maemo world22:19
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: CSSU22:19
djszapi__if you do not understand the difference between a framework and its usage... just try to avoid commenting on that, please.22:20
ZogG_laptopit makes it harder for CSSU and futher community improvement of platform, that and more closed parts22:21
djszapi__blaming the Qt framework just because there is a crappy application, is ridiculous22:22
ZogG_laptopi don't blame Qt framework22:22
ZogG_laptopwhere did you see that?22:22
djszapi__you are not getting the parallel example.22:23
ZogG_laptopas example MohammadAG's unrestricted-system-ui and the way we need to install it =\22:23
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: it's not like it was your suggestion to have it on sytem. and you may done good job writting it. but still its just pain in the ...22:24
djszapi__sometimes I feel that, certain people do not have enough friends, and bitching about aegis here makes friends. :)22:24
djszapi__it indeed was our suggestion to have it on the system22:25
djszapi__aka. by our team members22:25
djszapi__and no end user complaining about aegis22:25
djszapi__apart form devs22:25
djszapi__95-99% of the people are absolutely happy to have a more secure phone.22:25
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: right, and he have sustem with full Nokia official support, where we don't need community devs?22:26
itsnotabigtruckwhat is going on...22:26
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: djszapi__ telling how aegis is loved by users and only hated by devs =)22:26
ZogG_laptopas well as harmattan is main part of maemo community =)22:26
djszapi__actually I should not get involved in this aegis trolling22:27
djszapi__whenever it is bitched about :)22:27
ZogG_laptopit's not trolling22:27
djszapi__so I will just leave it now... =)22:27
ZogG_laptopyou just asked22:27
itsnotabigtruckwell, = cobs22:27
itsnotabigtruckbut if someone takes over cobs or puts up their own obs or whatever, then that can be the new cobs22:27
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: yeah and maemo community trying to get frematnle there, just on other hosting together with harmattan22:28
ZogG_laptopand i stated it as well22:28
* dm8tbr idly watches and grabs some popcorn22:28
itsnotabigtruckand w/r/t aegis, the best case scenario with aegis is that you aren't affected by it22:28
itsnotabigtruckjoe average doesn't run into aegis, know about aegis, benefit from aegis, or experience aegis problems22:28
itsnotabigtruckregular users don't have any need to circumvent aegis but that doesn't mean they like it22:29
ZogG_laptopbut he can't get new awesome thing that needs inception as he is average joe and can just rune his phone22:29
itsnotabigtruckit's "just there"22:29
ZogG_laptopwithout aegis he would just download and install it22:29
ZogG_laptopand the question of what to download is actually user responsobility22:30
djszapi__yeah, and would install any crap as well...22:30
djszapi__there is no need for sysadmins!22:30
djszapi__and firewalls!22:30
djszapi__users will have the responsibility!22:30
djszapi__well done!22:30
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: so set your root password to something you don't know and never use it22:31
ZogG_laptoplet's put aegis on ubuntu and any linux22:31
djszapi__yeah, and then get cracked as
ZogG_laptoppeople will like it22:31
djszapi__good job!22:31
ZogG_laptoplet's use it in kernel so u can't do anything with your PC22:31
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: how is site cracked related?22:32
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: your aegis in cracked by inception as well, sooooooo what's the point you was telling?22:32
itsnotabigtruckwhat exactly are we arguing about, anyway22:32
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i was talking how aegis is only stopping from improving system, but he tells it's benefit for users22:33
itsnotabigtruckit's a bit late to be arguing that aegis is a beneficial thing, because it doesn't really accomplish much even if it had perfectly good intentions22:33
dm8tbritsnotabigtruck: it seems an argument for arguments sake. lean back, grab popcorn.22:33
djszapi__ZogG_laptop: sure, you can crack anything, but ofc it does not mean you should not increase the security for your bike while storing.22:33
djszapi__just because it can be stolen anyway22:33
itsnotabigtruckwhen it comes to computer security, you have it or you don't22:33
djszapi__yeah, so turn off firewalls22:33
itsnotabigtruckhalf measures are no measures22:33
djszapi__proxies everything22:33
djszapi__turn off the securities in the banks22:34
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: it's different things22:34
itsnotabigtruckyou're comparing apples to oranges22:34
djszapi__just because they are not perfect.22:34
itsnotabigtruckyou're talking about "defense in depth"22:34
itsnotabigtruckaegis isn't "defense in depth"22:34
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: if there would be option to configure aegis, i mean fully. it would be nice22:34
djszapi__ZogG_laptop: there is22:34
itsnotabigtruckthis is like a firewall that doesn't actually firewall anything22:34
itsnotabigtruckbut you say it's better than nothing22:34
djszapi__aegis is a framework. I am pretty amazed you have been here so long, and you have not still realized22:34
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: i want to have access to LED, how can i do it?22:34
itsnotabigtruckor a firewall that has a bug that allows someone to root your computer22:34
djszapi__what you build on top of that, you are good to go.22:34
itsnotabigtruckaegis might have noble intentions but in practice it makes you less secure22:35
djszapi__it is *NOT*, again *NOT* the fault of the framework, if not used correctly.22:35
itsnotabigtruckbecause it opens up opportunities to gain privileges that shouldn't have been gained22:35
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: the problem is that i can't, as i don't have permissions or anything22:35
itsnotabigtruckthat would be impossible without aegis22:35
ZogG_laptopbut on other hand if i would have to ask for any permission i could write virus and than user would install it22:35
ZogG_laptopso it's pointless22:35
* djszapi__ is away, has better things to do =)22:36
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djszapi__actually now thinking of, you do not really need to put aegis into the linux kernel22:40
djszapi__its upstream version is already there.22:40
djszapi__our job was accepted by Linus itself.22:40
djszapi__so it is again just lack of information, but a lot of talking, but whatever.22:41
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itsnotabigtruckdoesn't look like it22:49
itsnotabigtruck(that's the tree for kernel 3.4.4)22:49
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: they call it selinux there =P22:50
itsnotabigtruckthere's the apparmor, selinux, smack, tomoyo linux, and yama LSMs, plus the integrity measurement architecture (for tpms)22:50
itsnotabigtruckand the kernel key storage interface22:51
djszapi__itsnotabigtruck: lack of information again, with lot of talking22:51
itsnotabigtruckand the capabilities lsm22:51
itsnotabigtrucknothing that looks anything like aegis22:51
djszapi__I do not know how you can miss "smack" over there.22:51
itsnotabigtrucksmack != aegis22:51
djszapi__then you are blind22:51
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: than where is link? i see you talk a lot, but no fact to provide22:51
itsnotabigtruckafaict they're very different22:51
tehdelyhey guys22:51
itsnotabigtrucksmack was going to be the basis for the replacement for aegis, that never really happened22:51
itsnotabigtruckit isn't aegis itself22:51
tehdelyhow about that weather and/or area sports team22:51
djszapi__never really happened22:52
djszapi__made my day :)22:52
ZogG_laptopyou take it too personal and it amuses =)22:52
ZogG_laptopbtw there was song "smack my aegis up" but than they called it different =)22:52
djszapi__tehdely: it is very rainy on the coast of the Atlantic Ocean. =)23:03
DocScrutinizer05a +q would make MY day23:04
tehdelypretty gloomy out by the pacific today23:04
tehdelyalthough ti's sunny inland23:04
DocScrutinizer05and actually I'm in a mood for +q today23:05
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: you just can stop talking if you want23:23
DocScrutinizer05stop highlighting me with bullshit, fool!23:26
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i though you still ignore me =\23:31
ZogG_laptopi already got used and felt good to say something when you can't read me =)23:32
DocScrutinizer05I'm finally coming to the conclusion I should take business as chanop serious and assume I'm not that special with my feelings about particular tones and behaviours. And since I already hear in out-of-band channels how the bitching and tone in this channel is provoking phatasies of beating-up etc, I think I shouldn't ignore anybody any further, and rather use +q and +b a little bit more often23:35
ZogG_laptopyour choice23:36
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ZogG_laptopbut there are two things you need to think about than23:37
ZogG_laptop1) does it actually disturb others or only you( the things and conversations you don't like)23:38
DocScrutinizer05after all this channel once been meant for developers helping developers, not for self-nominated experts fighting with self-nominated world-savers23:38
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: simple answer? I'll instantly +b next one who causes any out-of-chan complaint23:38
ZogG_laptopand 2) than you can't have same small talks and argues and you do have those23:38
DocScrutinizer05two trolls feeding eac other don't already make a vlauable contribution23:41
ZogG_laptopbut 1)it's our time and 2) why anyone who you don't agree with/share opinion with is called troll?23:42
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: sorry dude, that's my hard duty as chanop to decide that all on my own23:44
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: do not repeat Estel situation here as well =\23:44
DocScrutinizer05general rule: if it doesn't contribute useful info for others, it's trolling (or a friendly chat out of botedom)23:44
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: have you seen project i sent you link to?23:45
ZogG_laptopthe one niwakame|away mostly writting now?23:45
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer05: the fact that you have said "feelings" is proof alone that you shouldn't be banning people willy nilly23:45
itsnotabigtruck(guessing you won't read this anyway)23:45
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: maybe?23:45
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: agree that it would be useless but not trolling. trolling is when someone provoce other on purpose23:45
DocScrutinizer05genral rule #2: the third repetition of a conversaton with almost same wording is just noise, thus also not appreciated23:46
ZogG_laptopcan you explain where you apply here second rule?23:46
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: can't you tell him that he's on the record many times talking about how he hates harmattan and this channel, so maybe he should just ignore it and pay attention to things he likes23:47
djszapi__if this channel had ever worked that way, the same whinings all over again about aegis without helping anything would have been banned last summer23:47
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i think he doesn't ignore you anymore, he was ignoring me23:47
DocScrutinizer05check chanlogs for discussions with djszapi__ about usefulness of aegis, and you'll learn23:47
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: i think Doc would ban himself as well than =P23:48
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: do you ignore itsnotabigtruck ?23:48
ZogG_laptopi just do not want to copypaste, he asked to tell you ^23:49
DocScrutinizer05it's a known fact that djszapi__is convinced aegis is a fine implementation, it's a fact most users don't really agree and especially think aegis _policies_ on HARM are crap. And it's fact this discussion been done ad nauseum for at least 5 times now. Next time I'll +q everybody involved23:49
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: it was part of bigger discussion of CSSU and that harmattan is little part of maemo community and not the main part23:51
azeemit would be the main part by now, if there wasn't Aegis23:54
azeemoops ;)23:54
ZogG_laptopthat was my point actually. but let's close it. Doc is not in the mood today and i need to go away. So night guys.23:55
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: can you tell beford something if you see him here? he is here at nights and mornings as i understand23:58
djszapi__and he has email as well that he cheks :-)23:58
ZogG_laptopdjszapi__: can you give it to me?23:58
ZogG_laptopi'll tweet him23:59

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