| djszapi_ | ptl: I planned to go to Manaus (?) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| djszapi_ | phew, just ~4000 kms away your place ^^ | 00:01 |
| ptl | yes... :P | 00:01 |
| djszapi_ | so you are close to Sao Paulo? | 00:01 |
| *** Teo`` is now known as Teo` | 00:08 | |
| ieatlint | the best thing about bastille day is i can just re-use most of the bunting from the 4th of july | 00:12 |
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| ptl | djszapi_: yes, quite close, but Sao Paulo is too big, too polluted, too traffic-heavy. In Campinas I enjoy a much better quality of life. | 00:31 |
| djszapi_ | guess | 00:36 |
| RzR | i think there is an other guy from SP here too | 00:44 |
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| RzR | ieatlint, are you celebrating bastille day ? here thx to the weather all fireworks were cancelled .... time to make a real revolution | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | <djszapi_> then it does not require anything | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG | it fucking does | 00:47 |
| djszapi_ | you randomly ignored the following stuff? | 00:49 |
| djszapi_ | according to your taste? | 00:49 |
| djszapi_ | or perhaps you do not know how to read syslog | 00:51 |
| djszapi_ | that is also an option. | 00:51 |
| ieatlint | RzR: it's about 14c and clear skies out here.. there are several bastille day things going on, but nothing that huge, and i don't think any fireworks planned | 00:52 |
| ieatlint | nice summer day | 00:53 |
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| ptl | is there a dbus call to listen for SMS? | 00:58 |
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| MohammadAG | have fun http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1237566#post1237566 | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi_, you're annoying me right now | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG | I said it's not bitching about it on syslog | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG | DBus is rejecting the call | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG | if you know what it needs, say that, if you don't, don't blame me for having a shitty security system on my device | 01:12 |
| alterego | Good job MohammadAG :) | 01:13 |
| alterego | That's a sweet mod | 01:13 |
| djszapi_ | MohammadAG: you are annoying others too by not posting syslog etc | 01:15 |
| djszapi_ | really hard to help you, if you do not know how to read, and you do not even post to others who know. | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED MY SYSLOG | 01:15 |
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| MohammadAG | thanks alterego :) | 01:15 |
| alterego | I don't think caps is necessary MohammadAG | 01:15 |
| alterego | If you don't want to talk to him just ignore him :P | 01:15 |
| djszapi_ | he thinks, it is, so it is :D | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, it is, trust me :p | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | but that works too | 01:16 |
| alterego | I'm currently implementing a new dialer. | 01:17 |
| alterego | Finally had my last straw with meego-handset-dialer | 01:17 |
| ptl | one that has 3G video calling? | 01:17 |
| alterego | So I've been writing one entirely from scratch. | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 01:17 |
| alterego | ptl: not yet, but maybe in the future :) | 01:17 |
| ptl | is the N9 capable of that? | 01:17 |
| azeem | what's wrong with the dialer | 01:17 |
| alterego | azeem: this is nemo, not harmattan. | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | meego-handset-dialer is a bit, awkward | 01:18 |
| djszapi_ | azeem: nothing | 01:18 |
| azeem | alterego: oh, nm | 01:18 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, but it should work on Harmattan right? | 01:18 |
| * MohammadAG starts looking at libapt | 01:18 | |
| alterego | MohammadAG: with a telepathy-ring backend implemented, yes, (which I plan to do for voip support) | 01:18 |
| alterego | But we use ofono on mer/nemo | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | oh, thought Harmattan used ofono too | 01:19 |
| alterego | Which is the backend I've been working on now. | 01:19 |
| alterego | Neah, Harmattan uses the same phone crap as Fremantle. telepathy-ring and that closed crap under it. | 01:19 |
| Elleo | isn't telepathy-ring just an interface to ofono on harmattan? | 01:20 |
| Elleo | or is that only on standard meego | 01:20 |
| alterego | Elleo: only on standard meego. | 01:22 |
| Elleo | ah | 01:22 |
| djszapi_ | well, it works | 01:22 |
| tazz | i have packaged stuff for ubuntu a few years a go. How high do you guys think the learning curve would be for me, if i wanted to port a few kde apps for n9? | 01:22 |
| djszapi_ | nemo/meego ce/de/whatever has never worked for me | 01:23 |
| djszapi_ | in terms of this | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | tazz, a bit high | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | you'll need to write a new UI | 01:23 |
| alterego | djszapi_: what hasn't worked for you? | 01:23 |
| tazz | right... | 01:23 |
| azeem | I guess packaging is your least problem | 01:23 |
| djszapi_ | tazz: it is not high | 01:24 |
| tazz | yup | 01:24 |
| djszapi_ | it is very simple | 01:24 |
| djszapi_ | same for the packaging, same for the ui | 01:24 |
| djszapi_ | and I have done the kde stack already | 01:24 |
| djszapi_ | so not much effort needed apart from the app packaging | 01:24 |
| djszapi_ | and as for apps, there are examples | 01:24 |
| djszapi_ | KDE apps, that is. | 01:24 |
| djszapi_ | look at my apps for instance, kanagram or khangman | 01:25 |
| djszapi_ | should be fairly trivial and "low". | 01:25 |
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| djszapi_ | we have very well documented the procedure as well at the KDE Harmattan sprint. | 01:25 |
| djszapi_ | http://community.kde.org/KDE_Mobile/Harmattan | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi_, same for the UI eh? | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | cause QWidgets look awesome on Harmattan | 01:25 |
| tazz | MohammadAG, i guess i can ask for help with UI if needed :) | 01:26 |
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| djszapi_ | MohammadAG: I know, you know the security better than the security team, and KDE better than the KDE Harmattan team. | 01:26 |
| louisdk | Hi | 01:26 |
| djszapi_ | tazz: ofc | 01:26 |
| tazz | djszapi_, right thanks i'll go rtfm right now. | 01:26 |
| djszapi_ | we have kde-mobile@kde.org as well for this | 01:26 |
| tazz | also first things first. | 01:26 |
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| tazz | so i added the repositories from http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/Development_repos | 01:26 |
| louisdk | Is it possible to ssh into my N) with Xforwarding option (-X) and be able to open N9 apps on my linux laptop? | 01:27 |
| tazz | now i get the following message whenever i try to install an application http://pastebin.com/VEq9CnSs | 01:27 |
| louisdk | *N9 | 01:27 |
| tazz | louisdk, iirc there is an option to just use vnc. | 01:27 |
| djszapi_ | louisdk: you can mount stuff on your linux box | 01:27 |
| djszapi_ | not sure, if the whole root works, perhaps not | 01:27 |
| djszapi_ | though, you do not probably wanna all those repositories in order to avoid conflicts | 01:28 |
| djszapi_ | in general, the community repository and the Nokia repository ought to be alright | 01:28 |
| djszapi_ | and rarely, when you need anything else. | 01:28 |
| djszapi_ | wanna add* | 01:29 |
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| tazz | djszapi_, right, let me just re-flash and remove all the extra repos. To sort this problem. | 01:30 |
| tazz | i though having a few commandline tools would be nice (screen bash vim) etc... | 01:31 |
| djszapi_ | we do have those | 01:31 |
| ptl | uninformed question: does the N9 support nfs4 out of the box? I mean, can I mount a NFS4 filesystem from my internal network server? | 01:32 |
| djszapi_ | you cannot mount on your N9 afaik | 01:32 |
| ptl | even as root? | 01:32 |
| djszapi_ | even as root | 01:32 |
| ptl | even with inception? | 01:33 |
| djszapi_ | I may be wrong, and certain types are allowed | 01:33 |
| djszapi_ | I have no clue about inception | 01:33 |
| djszapi_ | not that I even wanna have, I am afraid. | 01:33 |
| ptl | :( | 01:33 |
| ptl | n9-21-3_PR_001:~# mount -t nfs4 10.0.0.1:/filmes /tmp/x | 01:38 |
| ptl | mount: 10.0.0.1:/filmes failed, reason given by server: Permission denied | 01:38 |
| ptl | mount: mounting 10.0.0.1:/filmes on /tmp/x failed: Bad file descriptor | 01:38 |
| ptl | :\ | 01:38 |
| ptl | the bad file descriptor might be due to aegis | 01:38 |
| ptl | but I don't know why my server would say 'permission denied' | 01:38 |
| alterego | Shouldn't it be "/films" ? | 01:39 |
| ptl | the name is right, it's portuguese... :) | 01:39 |
| djszapi_ | yep | 01:39 |
| djszapi_ | that is not the problem ... | 01:39 |
| alterego | :) | 01:39 |
| djszapi_ | the problem is the security policy. | 01:39 |
| djszapi_ | like I said, mounting in, does not work | 01:39 |
| djszapi_ | mounting an N9 fs onto your host system ought to work. | 01:40 |
| ptl | funny that it did not complain about nfs4 support | 01:40 |
| djszapi_ | because it does not even allow the operation | 01:40 |
| djszapi_ | so why would it analyze further? | 01:40 |
| djszapi_ | to make selection, etc | 01:40 |
| ptl | ok | 01:42 |
| ptl | but I'd have the impression that it would check for compatibility to nfs4 before even trying to talk to the server, because it needs to know the nfs4 protocol to see if it has permission or not. | 01:42 |
| djszapi_ | if everything is forbidden, that makes not much sense to me. | 01:44 |
| djszapi_ | I think the current behavior makes more sense in that case, which is the case afaik. | 01:45 |
| alterego | Sort of amazing to see how far mer has come in such a short time, when meego failed so utterly. | 01:46 |
| ptl | what do you mean, alterego ? | 01:47 |
| alterego | Which part? | 01:47 |
| ptl | with meego, do you refer to harmattan or the pure-bred meego? | 01:47 |
| djszapi_ | personally, I do not understand why we need Mer. | 01:47 |
| alterego | meego.com as a project | 01:47 |
| ptl | ah | 01:47 |
| djszapi_ | what is wrong about arch-arm or ubuntu-arm for embedded? | 01:47 |
| djszapi_ | and other distros, why another one? | 01:47 |
| ptl | Mer has always had underground protection, I think that is the reason | 01:47 |
| alterego | Whu have arch-arm and ubuntu-arm? | 01:48 |
| alterego | Why not just use mer | 01:48 |
| ptl | Meego tried to seduce the corporate world and depend on it. So it failed | 01:48 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: because they have been proven for many years | 01:48 |
| alterego | djszapi_: bullshit | 01:48 |
| djszapi_ | with way huger communities around | 01:48 |
| djszapi_ | no, it is not | 01:48 |
| alterego | I'm not going to get in to a religious debate | 01:48 |
| djszapi_ | pandaboard has always been advised with mostly ubuntu-arm or angstrom | 01:48 |
| djszapi_ | you can say those people talk "bullshit", but I agree with them to be honest. | 01:48 |
| djszapi_ | I do not really see the point of yet another distribution | 01:49 |
| djszapi_ | sure, it made sense for Nokia due to the own control | 01:49 |
| alterego | djszapi_: no one uses them on phones. | 01:49 |
| djszapi_ | but as for a community, I do not see much value for more diversion. | 01:49 |
| alterego | There is no diversion. | 01:49 |
| djszapi_ | why not just improve the already existing solutions? | 01:49 |
| ptl | Mer made for rather than merely customized for embedded devices, I think | 01:49 |
| djszapi_ | make them usable on phones | 01:49 |
| alterego | Because they're completely inadequate. | 01:49 |
| djszapi_ | instead of creating yet another one. | 01:49 |
| ptl | that seems a good enough reason | 01:49 |
| djszapi_ | no, they are not. | 01:50 |
| alterego | djszapi_: what difference does it make? It's all the same bloody packages. | 01:50 |
| djszapi_ | and mer is not just for phones anyway | 01:50 |
| alterego | So what if it doesn't have "ubuntu" in the name? | 01:50 |
| alterego | ubuntu-arm isn't designed to run on always on devices. | 01:50 |
| djszapi_ | actually, ubuntu phone is coming | 01:50 |
| djszapi_ | so I do not honestly see how it is more inadequate than mer | 01:51 |
| ptl | yeah, it's coming | 01:51 |
| alterego | I can't think of a single distro out there that is designed to run on an always-on battery powered device. | 01:51 |
| ptl | too much in the future | 01:51 |
| djszapi_ | mer is not really proven for phones either anyway | 01:51 |
| alterego | djszapi_: actually it is. | 01:51 |
| djszapi_ | and way more people working on ubuntu-arm anyway | 01:51 |
| ptl | Next year let's see who wins, Ubuntu phone or Jolla's Mer-derived distro | 01:51 |
| alterego | djszapi_: we've been running it on phones since it began., | 01:51 |
| ptl | I bet on both :D I'll probably buy one of them | 01:51 |
| djszapi_ | yeah, and apps crash... | 01:51 |
| alterego | djszapi_: what apps? | 01:51 |
| djszapi_ | huge usability issues... | 01:51 |
| alterego | djszapi_: and that isn't mer's fault .. | 01:51 |
| djszapi_ | (not my opinion only) | 01:51 |
| alterego | djszapi_: don't get nemo and mer confused .. | 01:52 |
| djszapi_ | it is | 01:52 |
| ptl | Instead of complaining, I rejoice on it | 01:52 |
| djszapi_ | since backtrace dumps about core stuff | 01:52 |
| ptl | I like having Mer and Ubuntu phone | 01:52 |
| alterego | djszapi_: m'hmm, well I'm sure they'll be fixed. | 01:52 |
| alterego | djszapi_: and you're implying ubuntu arm wouldn't have these issues? | 01:52 |
| djszapi_ | I am not getting the point of yet another distro from scratch | 01:52 |
| alterego | djszapi_: it's hardly from scratch. | 01:52 |
| ptl | It's not just yet another distro | 01:52 |
| ptl | Mer is quite old, actually | 01:52 |
| alterego | djszapi_: and I've told you, but who cares what you think? | 01:53 |
| ptl | and has proven solutions that work | 01:53 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: same for you | 01:53 |
| djszapi_ | please do not be this hostile for getting a personal opinion | 01:53 |
| alterego | djszapi_: then don't shit on peoples opinions. | 01:53 |
| djszapi_ | I like collaborating with existing solutions | 01:53 |
| djszapi_ | instead of reinventing the wheel | 01:53 |
| ptl | Ubuntu-arm appeared after Mer, isn't it? | 01:53 |
| ptl | I mean | 01:53 |
| djszapi_ | sure, MeeGo made sense to Nokia since they did not wanna contribute to open source communities due to not be dependent | 01:54 |
| alterego | ptl: yeah. | 01:54 |
| ptl | Mer is older | 01:54 |
| djszapi_ | but as for a community? Why another? why 101th ? | 01:54 |
| djszapi_ | ptl: no, it has not. | 01:54 |
| azeem | ubuntu-arm isn't really a community thing | 01:54 |
| djszapi_ | ptl: ubuntu-arm is actually a quite old project | 01:54 |
| djszapi_ | azeem: it surely is. | 01:54 |
| alterego | djszapi_: because it makes sense. ubuntu, fedora, etc. Are not tailored to run under the conditions our primary vendors focus. | 01:54 |
| djszapi_ | you can contribute patches, etc | 01:54 |
| ptl | oh, come on | 01:55 |
| azeem | you could contribute patches to meego as well, I'm sure | 01:55 |
| ptl | it's done by now | 01:55 |
| alterego | It was less effort to start from scratch and use the tools from other distros to create a tailored and easily customisable solution. | 01:55 |
| ptl | let's help both. | 01:55 |
| djszapi_ | azeem: why would I contribute to 101th project? | 01:55 |
| alterego | We do help both. | 01:55 |
| ptl | because it's popular | 01:55 |
| djszapi_ | instead of contributing to just less? | 01:55 |
| azeem | djszapi_: beats me | 01:55 |
| alterego | We upstream everything. | 01:55 |
| djszapi_ | I am not getting the point of the point "Yet another distribution". | 01:55 |
| djszapi_ | there are already a huge diversion in the open source world. | 01:55 |
| djszapi_ | it is so bad to see this all the time again. | 01:56 |
| alterego | djszapi_: then why don't you go tell the ubuntu arm guys to join mer? | 01:56 |
| azeem | says the person pushing Ubuntu | 01:56 |
| ptl | lol | 01:56 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: why would they? | 01:56 |
| djszapi_ | Ubuntu has a way larger community | 01:56 |
| alterego | And the fedora arm guys, they should join mer too, why another distro djszapi_ ? | 01:56 |
| djszapi_ | so has arm | 01:56 |
| djszapi_ | arch* | 01:56 |
| alterego | Why another distro? | 01:56 |
| alterego | djszapi_: oh, community size .. | 01:56 |
| djszapi_ | fedora != ubuntu | 01:56 |
| ptl | Why another OS? Why not just stick with Android? | 01:57 |
| djszapi_ | both have been existing for ages | 01:57 |
| djszapi_ | they will of course do their way now. | 01:57 |
| alterego | So we should have gone to ubuntu and said, we want to do an arm port of your hidiously bulky linux distribution because you're popular. | 01:57 |
| djszapi_ | but why 101th ? | 01:57 |
| alterego | that sounds like rather retarded reasoning .. | 01:57 |
| alterego | djszapi_: ask them? | 01:57 |
| alterego | mer predates ubuntu arm, | 01:57 |
| alterego | As did meego | 01:57 |
| ptl | predates as in 'does what a predator do'? :P | 01:57 |
| alterego | well, maybe not entirely meego .. | 01:57 |
| azeem | at least the corporate-controlled ubuntu arm | 01:58 |
| azeem | there probably was a community port way back when | 01:58 |
| alterego | God, why OS X? | 01:58 |
| alterego | Why Windows? | 01:58 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: not quite | 01:58 |
| alterego | Why doesn't everyone use Plan 9 | 01:58 |
| djszapi_ | we started arch-arm way ago meego | 01:58 |
| djszapi_ | beagle board is not a new device | 01:58 |
| alterego | Christ, why Nokia? Why Motorolla, why Apple iPhone? | 01:58 |
| azeem | who cares about arch? | 01:58 |
| alterego | Why don't we all just use the same bloody phone .. | 01:58 |
| azeem | everybody should've just used NeXTStep | 01:59 |
| azeem | oh weait | 01:59 |
| azeem | wait* | 01:59 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: now that is the bullshit | 01:59 |
| alterego | djszapi_: no more bullshit than what you're saying. | 01:59 |
| djszapi_ | we are not discussing Apple, Motorola, nokia here | 01:59 |
| alterego | Like you said, this is all your opinion | 01:59 |
| djszapi_ | we are discussing the Linux way | 01:59 |
| alterego | And we all know what opinions mean in the real world ... | 01:59 |
| djszapi_ | and that bloody fact, we have tons of reinventation | 01:59 |
| djszapi_ | even just inside Linux | 01:59 |
| ptl | Ok, Mer and Ubuntu-arm are close enough to question why either of them isn't the only one on the block. I think we all get that? | 01:59 |
| djszapi_ | we are not even there to discuss wider scope | 01:59 |
| djszapi_ | and this situation makes me cry | 01:59 |
| ptl | And so we discuss here, and get to a conclusion: everyone should just use {Ubuntu arm|Mer}. | 02:00 |
| alterego | ptl: not really, mer is nothing like ubuntu, has complete different targets and goals :) | 02:00 |
| djszapi_ | why cannot we just have less, but more quality solutions? | 02:00 |
| ptl | Will anything change at all? | 02:00 |
| azeem | ptl: first off, Ubuntu isn't a community-driven distribution, and certainly not primarly targetted at embedded systems | 02:00 |
| alterego | Not to mention the package management systems | 02:00 |
| alterego | We have different build systems, different filesystem image creation tools. | 02:00 |
| ptl | I know, azeem and alterego, but even with that, they are similar enough | 02:00 |
| djszapi_ | azeem: he did not say ubuntu | 02:00 |
| djszapi_ | azeem: he said ubuntu arm | 02:00 |
| djszapi_ | please do not confuse | 02:00 |
| azeem | WTF is ubuntu arm? | 02:00 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: yes, but why? | 02:01 |
| alterego | azeem: ubuntu compiled for arm. | 02:01 |
| djszapi_ | but in fact, no you do not | 02:01 |
| djszapi_ | rpm has been existing for ages | 02:01 |
| djszapi_ | and OBS is not only used by meego anyway | 02:01 |
| alterego | djszapi_: I don't get your point? | 02:01 |
| ptl | I just say that we can spin around arguing about this all the time, it will get nowhere, it won't change the development of either distro, it will accomplish nothing... | 02:01 |
| djszapi_ | actually it was not created by meego in the first place | 02:01 |
| *** jaywink has quit IRC | 02:01 | |
| alterego | Why are you on a religious crusade? It's such a waste of time. | 02:01 |
| ptl | I, for one, am enthusiastic for both | 02:01 |
| azeem | the only difference between Ubuntu for arm and Ubuntu for x86 is that arm is support from that consortium | 02:01 |
| alterego | Accept Mer, or shutup :P | 02:01 |
| alterego | But don't say we should have started the ubuntu arm project. | 02:02 |
| ptl | accept both and shutup! What about that ?:P | 02:02 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: because people dislike NIH for good | 02:02 |
| alterego | Joining debian arm would have made _far_ more sense. | 02:02 |
| alterego | As that was in someway maemo's upstream. | 02:02 |
| djszapi_ | you can say to everybody "NIH is good, you are just a religious nazi". | 02:02 |
| ptl | NIH? | 02:02 |
| azeem | not invented here | 02:02 |
| djszapi_ | and I will be on the other side with that thinking. | 02:02 |
| ptl | ah | 02:02 |
| ptl | lol | 02:02 |
| djszapi_ | I would really like to see more collaboration and less diversion between communities | 02:02 |
| azeem | djszapi_: Ubuntu is like, NIH to the extreme | 02:03 |
| * alterego sighs | 02:03 | |
| djszapi_ | azeem: we are not discussing Ubuntu | 02:03 |
| djszapi_ | azeem: you did not still get the basic point | 02:03 |
| ptl | What I would like: to apt-get install bash and screen without conflicting with the N9 base system. | 02:03 |
| azeem | djszapi_: you keep doing it | 02:03 |
| djszapi_ | we have been discussing MANY existing solutions | 02:03 |
| azeem | btw, I'm a ubuntu dev | 02:03 |
| alterego | I dev on ubuntu :) | 02:04 |
| ptl | hmmmm.... Unity on the harmattan successor, what about that? | 02:04 |
| alterego | I wouldn't want it running on a freakin' phone .. | 02:04 |
| * ptl loves Unity | 02:04 | |
| * djszapi_ really wonders why people confuse Ubuntu with ubuntu-arm, arch-arm, fedora-arm etc | 02:04 | |
| alterego | Unity is "okay", generally stays out of my way. But it's buggy as hell and was released way too early. | 02:04 |
| azeem | djszapi_: how the hell is it any different? | 02:04 |
| djszapi_ | ubuntu arm & arch-arm & fedora arm != desktop ubuntu | 02:04 |
| alterego | djszapi_: maybe it's the damn name. | 02:04 |
| alterego | djszapi_: they are though, just cross-compiled repositories. | 02:05 |
| azeem | so ubuntu-arm is cross-compiled? | 02:05 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: no, they are not | 02:05 |
| alterego | the install process is different, but they're the same packages .. | 02:05 |
| ptl | alterego: agree with buggy as hell and released way too early, but I found it to be way more productive to my previous desktop setup (which I have been using on both KDE and Gnome for like 10 years) | 02:05 |
| azeem | same source packages, ight | 02:05 |
| djszapi_ | alterego: I am running a ubuntu "server" edition on my Pandaboard. | 02:05 |
| ptl | *productive than my previous | 02:05 |
| djszapi_ | and it is vastly different to that what you use on your desktop | 02:05 |
| djszapi_ | again, VASTLY | 02:05 |
| alterego | djszapi_: same packages, different installation process. | 02:05 |
| alterego | It's not vastly. | 02:05 |
| djszapi_ | and that could even be truncated further to a phone image, if needed | 02:06 |
| azeem | djszapi_: is it built from different source packages? | 02:06 |
| djszapi_ | instead of diverging just for the sake of diverging | 02:06 |
| alterego | Just because you apt-get different packages doesn't make it any different. | 02:06 |
| azeem | like nurturing emdebian | 02:06 |
| alterego | emdebian is a bloody mess. | 02:06 |
| alterego | And debian has an even _bigger_ community than ubuntu .. | 02:06 |
| djszapi_ | fix the shortcoming if any | 02:06 |
| djszapi_ | but again, why diverging? | 02:06 |
| djszapi_ | to show you are the "someone"? | 02:07 |
| ptl | Ok, now I am angry. Why you apt-get different packages at all then? The distro should follow a more regular pattern not depending on architecture. | 02:07 |
| djszapi_ | That is not mature. | 02:07 |
| alterego | Because debian is slow at adopting, and the amount of red tape involved in being involved .. | 02:07 |
| djszapi_ | working together on solving problems, is not bad | 02:07 |
| djszapi_ | there are tons of distributions already. | 02:07 |
| djszapi_ | also for embedded. | 02:07 |
| alterego | Who says we don't work with other people? | 02:07 |
| alterego | Didn't I just say that developers in mer are upstreamed? | 02:07 |
| alterego | Mer is built from maemo, meego, moblin, fedora, suse. | 02:08 |
| djszapi_ | the distribution is not about the upstreaming... | 02:08 |
| alterego | I'd say that's working with others' .. | 02:08 |
| djszapi_ | they are *downstream* | 02:08 |
| djszapi_ | and downstream is reinvented here. | 02:08 |
| djszapi_ | why? | 02:08 |
| djszapi_ | why? | 02:08 |
| djszapi_ | why? | 02:08 |
| alterego | djszapi_: exactly, so we benifit everyone. | 02:08 |
| azeem | djszapi_: you won't change people's minds, deal with it | 02:08 |
| alterego | djszapi_: as much as I really enjoy having this completely boring and unproductive conversation with you ... | 02:08 |
| alterego | I actually don't care enough to continue. | 02:08 |
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| ptl | this is a bit rude to djszapi_ but I'd say that I agree too. This is counter-productive because people already made their minds for one distro or another. It's just like that, whoever works on either does prefer one or another advantage it offers. | 02:11 |
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| djszapi_ | ptl: yeah, they sadly share the community around linux phones that could work together | 02:12 |
| djszapi_ | I mean they share further, and ofc nothing I can do until they do not change their mind towards collaboration | 02:13 |
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| djszapi_ | but ofc, I can tell my opinion, and I did that. | 02:13 |
| azeem | thanks for that | 02:13 |
| djszapi_ | they change* | 02:14 |
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| ptl | I think that if the projects get similar enough and they found it is too much duplicated effort, they will eventually merge | 02:15 |
| ptl | or at least share packages and some stuff | 02:15 |
| djszapi_ | let us move onto a different topic instead, I would suggest. | 02:16 |
| ptl | I'd agree with you in a general way, but the FOSS world just does not work like that, duplication of effort is something you have to get along with... Sometimes it's good | 02:16 |
| ptl | k | 02:16 |
| djszapi_ | ptl: which KDE application(s) would you like to port? | 02:23 |
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| ptl | djszapi_: Yakuake :P :P :P | 02:31 |
| djszapi_ | you should talk to Eike about that | 02:31 |
| djszapi_ | if I am not mistaken. | 02:31 |
| ptl | Eike? | 02:31 |
| djszapi_ | Hein, the author | 02:31 |
| ptl | Actually I don't think yakuake fits in a mobile | 02:32 |
| ptl | I was kidding | 02:32 |
| ptl | I don't know what KDE application I would like to port because it's difficult to think about such an application that would be useful in a mobile phone. | 02:32 |
| djszapi_ | I think it fits with a different ui | 02:32 |
| djszapi_ | why ? | 02:32 |
| djszapi_ | you just need to have a usable UI concept. | 02:32 |
| djszapi_ | even kontact is ported. | 02:33 |
| djszapi_ | (though that one is really not too mobile'ish) | 02:33 |
| ptl | I just don't know | 02:34 |
| ptl | I am trying to get to a kde app that would help me. | 02:34 |
| ptl | Ah, okular. | 02:34 |
| ptl | It's a nice pdf reader. | 02:34 |
| djszapi_ | I would recommend starting with a simpler.. | 02:35 |
| ptl | keepassx is QT, not KDE, but I loveit | 02:35 |
| ptl | there was keepassx for the N900 | 02:35 |
| ptl | I used that | 02:36 |
| djszapi_ | what about making a usable irc client? | 02:37 |
| djszapi_ | we do not have such a thing currently... | 02:38 |
| djszapi_ | or a gerrit client :) | 02:38 |
| djszapi_ | for the qt project | 02:39 |
| ptl | I use irssi with fingerterm | 02:39 |
| ptl | but yeah, for other people it would be nice | 02:40 |
| ptl | :) | 02:40 |
| ptl | I don't know what gerrit is | 02:40 |
| ptl | ah | 02:40 |
| ptl | googled and found it | 02:40 |
| ptl | git is really nice indeed | 02:41 |
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| djszapi_ | Qt != QT | 02:43 |
| tazz | quassel2go | 02:45 |
| djszapi_ | tazz: that is not based on tp | 02:46 |
| djszapi_ | which is IMO an architectural need on Harmattan | 02:46 |
| djszapi_ | to integrate with the account system | 02:46 |
| djszapi_ | in addition, heard of lots of complaints about bugs and non-implemented features. | 02:47 |
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| ptl | Qt is the toolkit. What is QT? | 02:54 |
| djszapi_ | Quick Time. | 02:54 |
| ptl | ah, ok | 02:55 |
| ptl | lol | 02:55 |
| ptl | Do you pronounce Qt as 'cute'? Maybe that's because I am a non-native english speaker, but I find it silly. | 02:57 |
| djszapi_ | read the first sentence on the wikipedia page, please. | 02:58 |
| ieatlint | ptl: nah, native english speakers are less likely to pronounce it "cute" in my experience for that very reason | 03:01 |
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| ieatlint | and the correct form is Q.T. | 03:01 |
| ptl | k | 03:03 |
| ieatlint | it's an acronym of Quasar Technologies | 03:03 |
| ptl | djszapi_: it says both forms are "used"... Qt (play /ˈkjuːt/ "cute", or unofficially as Q-T cue-tee | 03:03 |
| djszapi_ | ieatlint: lol | 03:04 |
| djszapi_ | ptl: so use the official? Or what is your question? | 03:05 |
| ieatlint | djszapi_: :P | 03:05 |
| ieatlint | the part about native english speakers being more likely to say "cue-tee" is true in my experience | 03:08 |
| ieatlint | the rest has just enough grain of truth to piss off people who take it too seriously :P | 03:09 |
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| djszapi_ | well, cue-tee is just incorrect | 03:10 |
| djszapi_ | and usually it is not a good thing to mix brand names up | 03:10 |
| djszapi_ | or even pronounciation and the like | 03:10 |
| djszapi_ | consistency is not a bad thing. | 03:11 |
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| ptl | djszapi_: might be but I'm uncomfortable with pronouncing "cute". It sounds silly and it's difficult to recognize as a toolset/framework in an informational talk. You have to explain. | 04:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Is anybody collection square lockscreen wallpapers for Harmattan? | 05:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well: http://thousandsparrows.com/images/harmattan-square-wallpaper-extension-cord.png | 06:00 |
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| Hey | Hello | 07:25 |
| Hey | Can anyone here me? | 07:26 |
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| beford | here you | 07:27 |
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| djszapi_ | beford: you had to say "no" :p | 07:53 |
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| Hurrian | So guys, my device's probably going to be delivered in ~24 hours. | 09:20 |
| Hurrian | How do you recommend I take control of it? | 09:20 |
| Hurrian | I'm thinking a clean PR1.3 001 flash, remove View-openmode and flashing an open mode kernel. | 09:21 |
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| rcg | morning | 12:10 |
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| djszapi_ | ajalkane: sup with qt5 on harmattan | 12:14 |
| ajalkane | djszapi_: waiting for new QtSDK to see if it has any support | 12:15 |
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| vladest | ajalkane: are you really thinks that there will be any new qtSDK? | 12:32 |
| ajalkane | vladest: Yes I do. But I'm a bit pessimistic that there will be Qt5 harmattan target there. | 12:33 |
| * vladest doesnt expecting qtsdk anymore | 12:34 | |
| djszapi_ | ajalkane: perhaps there will be even a qt6 target :) | 12:34 |
| vladest | at least from nokia | 12:34 |
| vladest | wher to see activity for qtsdk? | 12:34 |
| ajalkane | vladest: at least QtCreator is open source, that might give some hints | 12:34 |
| djszapi_ | ajalkane: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m29t3fZXxb1rsi0l3o1_1280.jpg | 12:35 |
| ajalkane | lolz | 12:35 |
| djszapi_ | ajalkane: this is better: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1wjkxYlxD1rsi0l3o1_1280.jpg | 12:36 |
| djszapi_ | and about gitorious: http://qtmemes.tumblr.com/post/23661370122/weve-all-been-there-elburger :D :D | 12:37 |
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| djszapi_ | any similarity with the reality is just an accident =) | 12:38 |
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| djszapi_ | beford: o/ | 12:44 |
| akbaar | hello e-yes | 12:49 |
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| RzR | hi pple | 12:55 |
| djszapi_ | sup RzR | 12:55 |
| djszapi_ | go to package ocaml :p | 12:55 |
| RzR | just after I die | 12:56 |
| djszapi_ | lol | 12:56 |
| djszapi_ | it will be too late :p | 12:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | morning | 12:57 |
| RzR | then kill me now | 12:57 |
| djszapi_ | killall -9 rzr | 12:57 |
| e-yes | f*ck the morning | 12:57 |
| RzR | Sun Jul 15 11:57:40 CEST 2012 | 12:57 |
| RzR | 3min and morning is over over here | 12:57 |
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| ZogG_laptop | e-yes: sup | 12:58 |
| djszapi_ | less than 3 ;) | 12:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | the morning is when u wake up and not when time says you it's morning =) | 12:58 |
| RzR | btw e-yes have u tested a vnc server on nitdroid ? i didnt manage to export the display | 12:58 |
| e-yes | no. why do you need it? | 12:59 |
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| RzR | just to type numbers :) n950 kb is not supporting the alt key :) | 13:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ugt | 13:18 |
| infobot | ugt is, like, Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 13:18 |
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| RzR | http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261062433504#ht_500wt_1289 | 13:40 |
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| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: that's what i said =) | 13:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | <RzR> Sun Jul 15 11:57:40 CEST 2012 <RzR> 3min and morning is over over here <djszapi_> less than 3 ;) -- yes Sir, everybody in here is assumed to be able to read time values like 11:57:40. if something ends in 2min20 it doesn't mean the statement "it will be over in 3 min" is false | 14:15 |
| RzR | n*24h and 3mins is also true | 14:20 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders to adapt his proposed post-account and nr-of-posts-limiter for tmo to IRC | 14:27 | |
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| djszapi_ | DocScrutinizer05: please get angry about jokes | 15:19 |
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| djszapi_ | that is what they are for, after all :D | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just >>[2012-07-15 00:26:18] <djszapi_> MohammadAG: I know, you know the security better than the security team, and KDE better than the KDE Harmattan team.<< while YOU obviously know better about *everything* | 15:22 |
| djszapi_ | well, one should not play the smart role about something that others did. | 15:22 |
| djszapi_ | especially if that person has no any clue about the subject. | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I conclude you did this universe, including time and space in it | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, God should bow down and praise you | 15:24 |
| clau | I keep hearing about problems after upgrade to pr1.3. Is there anything I should know before doing it? | 15:25 |
| clau | currently I am not offered the upgrade, but I expect it'll happen in the next couple of weeks | 15:25 |
| djszapi_ | clau: what problems? | 15:25 |
| clau | everything is slow for instance | 15:25 |
| clau | I think I heard this around here too | 15:25 |
| clau | honestly I did an upgrade from 1.1 to 1.2 right after I got the phone and I had absolutely no problem | 15:26 |
| djszapi_ | ohh certain people said that for any updates :) | 15:26 |
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| clau | :) | 15:26 |
| djszapi_ | I have not been able to verify that personally. | 15:26 |
| clau | maybe they are expecting too much :) | 15:26 |
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| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: no offense but aegis is ... how to say it to you, is wrong thing, and i'm not sying it only as i want to really own my phone, but it just is | 15:42 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: personal opinion has nothing to do with how it behaves | 15:44 |
| djszapi_ | personal opinion is a one thing, and no offense taken. | 15:44 |
| djszapi_ | but when someone tries to explain how something works I wrote, when it has never worked that way, that is ... hefty. | 15:45 |
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| ZogG_laptop | djszapi_: it's not about how it's written as i can say anything on it | 15:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's the purpose how it works and what it is for | 15:46 |
| djszapi_ | ZogG_laptop: you changed the subject. It was not the problem yesterday. | 15:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't know what was the problem yesterday obv | 15:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | i just talking about aegis =) | 15:47 |
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| azeem | clau: one problem is that if the browser times out, it clears the URL so one cannot reasily reload it later | 15:51 |
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| Creteil | hi all | 15:53 |
| djszapi_ | sup | 15:53 |
| Creteil | I'm actually fighting with tracker-sparql trying to find a record causing troubles in face recognition selection steps ... | 15:54 |
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| Creteil | so ... a query like : tracker-sparql --query="select ?u ?ng ?nf { ?u a nco:Contact; nco:nameGiven ?ng; nco:nameFamily ?nf . }" | 16:38 |
| Creteil | report all of my Contacts PLUS a blank line at the end of the query result. | 16:38 |
| Creteil | This end up in a 2 names proposal in the face recognition selection steps, look at here : http://bigbob.fun.free.fr/Nokia%20N9%20Face%20Recognition%20troubles%20%28tracker%20database%20corrupted%29/ | 16:38 |
| Creteil | If someone have an idea, feel free to explain me :-) | 16:39 |
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| * MohammadAG thinks out loud http://i47.tinypic.com/20gmyps.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/f4iwk9.jpg | 17:04 | |
| MohammadAG | anyone wanna help with the backend? :P | 17:04 |
| azeem | what does Uninstall do? | 17:05 |
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| MohammadAG | allow you to remove packages? it's a package manager | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | oh nice MohammadAG ! | 17:10 |
| Lava_Croft | a proper package manager! | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | been looking at Cydia and Fapman for help with apt | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "Go! kill the ovi, bring it to me! go1" | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | seems a bit complex | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | yes kill ovi | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | anything that makes me pay for applications and then only allows me to download them like 5 times can die in a ditch | 17:11 |
| Lava_Croft | horribly, slowly and painfully | 17:11 |
| djszapi_ | Lava_Croft: well, it is too late to complain | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | die in a DDoS | 17:12 |
| Lava_Croft | djszapi_: its not a complaint | 17:12 |
| djszapi_ | we did that about two years ago | 17:12 |
| Lava_Croft | i just want it to die | 17:12 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont want it to improve | 17:12 |
| djszapi_ | it was late for that time, even | 17:12 |
| Lava_Croft | soon i wont be able to install Billboard again, i reckon :D | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I guess ovi doesn't need any DDoS to die by own multi-organ-failure | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | MTF really needs to be fixed | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MTF needs to be given a chance | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 17:16 |
| Stskeeps | dead upstream, what's not to love about it | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | still better than QML :P | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if by dead upstream you mean Nokia's relation to OVI, then I concur | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | MTF isn't maintained anymoer | 17:17 |
| djszapi_ | officially it is, but not by Nokia. | 17:18 |
| MohammadAG | it was dropped in favor of the much slower, less mature QML | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah QML :-/ | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the me-too-dalvik | 17:19 |
| Lava_Croft | as an end-user, QML isnt pretty handy! | 17:22 |
| Lava_Croft | is* errr | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | QML is handy for quick fancy UIs | 17:23 |
| MohammadAG | the power of QGraphicsView was demonstrated in stuff like TweeGo | 17:23 |
| Lava_Croft | i specifically mentioned myself as an end-user, because im well aware of the (almost always) present problem with such systems | 17:24 |
| Lava_Croft | problems* | 17:24 |
| Lava_Croft | I reckon QML stuff doesnt look and work as pretty under the hood | 17:24 |
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| MohammadAG | oh yay, bouncer's back | 17:24 |
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| passi | Hi, can anyone tell me what the cause for a 'X-Loader image is too big' error can be? I can't find any docs for it. | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | "Nokia Internet Tablet - the power of a PC at your palm" what became of that? | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG | Microsoft Surface? :P | 17:30 |
| Lava_Croft | Nokia had all the tech and the people | 17:30 |
| Lava_Croft | much like MS had or has all the tech and the people to get things right | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | but they just dont:< | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it turned into "Nokia Nseries - the me-too-fruitphone with a dash of the green trashbin" | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and now hooker | 17:31 |
| Lava_Croft | i thought i was choking on my coffee when i heard the name 'Lumia' for the first time | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG | I read it as Lumina first | 17:32 |
| Lava_Croft | i knew it meant prostitute | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG | o_O | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is colecting dust in the shelfs as Flop managed to define it so it never will run winphone8 | 17:32 |
| Lava_Croft | it means prostitute in spanish | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG | it means prostitute? | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG | LMFAO | 17:32 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 17:32 |
| djszapi__ | lol, you did not know that ? :) | 17:33 |
| MohammadAG | nope, must've missed it | 17:33 |
| djszapi__ | that is why it was funny when they wanted to show that up at MWC | 17:33 |
| Lava_Croft | thats why i have always been half-happy with the Lumia's | 17:33 |
| djszapi__ | since it was in Spain | 17:33 |
| Lava_Croft | since the name implies this is just a temporary solution | 17:33 |
| djszapi__ | and it means that in Spanish :) | 17:33 |
| Lava_Croft | i still have to see any human in real life thats using a Lumia | 17:34 |
| djszapi__ | well, I sold my Lumia to a person | 17:34 |
| Lava_Croft | I would like a Lumia, just for having it | 17:34 |
| djszapi__ | and I know many using those, way more than N9s, sadly. | 17:34 |
| Lava_Croft | its still a pretty thing ot look at! | 17:34 |
| MohammadAG | I used it for a month | 17:34 |
| Lava_Croft | well, as a smartphone OS, i think windows isnt too bad | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG | then I realized it was a bit of a limited device | 17:35 |
| Lava_Croft | well, yeah | 17:35 |
| Lava_Croft | most smartphones are, if not all | 17:35 |
| djszapi__ | features phones are less limited :) | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | i had a galaxy nexus for a week, but it was mostly the same experience | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | only slower and more annoying | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | i wonder if its a good idea to talk about RIM some more | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: now you finally get that comment of the casual bystander in the buss ranting to you "Oh! you got your own personal lunmia!" and smiling while winking at you ;-P | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | so i dont have to feel so bad for Nokia | 17:36 |
| Lava_Croft | everyone i ask says they love the how the lumia looks | 17:37 |
| Lava_Croft | but these days having a nokia is just something bad:< | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | I used an SGSII for two weeks, it wasn't bad | 17:37 |
| Lava_Croft | no matter the software | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | in fact with ICS, I'm considering one | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | I just don't imagine myself developing anything for android | 17:37 |
| Lava_Croft | galaxy nexus came with ics, but i dont see whats so good about it | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | it just feels patchy to me | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | incoherent | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | you haven't used Gingerbread then :P | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | apart from being slow | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | i have :) | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | ICS is a huge improvement to GB | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, but still its pretty incoherent | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | it's still android though | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | and its multitasking is errr | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | mind you, i went from nokia 5510 to n900 | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | iOS5 is what made me consider an iPhone/iPod | 17:38 |
| Lava_Croft | my Nexus7 should arrive on friday | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | The N9 I got reduced my iPhone usage | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | i ordered one via a friend in the US | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | iphone is awesome for games | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | mainly cause of the better battery (compared to the N950) | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | other than that, i dont need one | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | I don't game :/ | 17:39 |
| Lava_Croft | its the only thing i can do on an iphone | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | I got it for the closed proprietary stuff most people I know are using | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | WhatsApp, Viber etc | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | and Waze | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | my wife is an iphone person, she loves hers | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | and i steal her iphone4 to play games:) | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | JB'd? | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | nope | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | can't stand those :P | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | theres no need to jb for her | 17:40 |
| Lava_Croft | im biased when it comes to mobiles tho, since the n900 is my first and standard 'smartphone' experience | 17:41 |
| Lava_Croft | i knew iphones and androids, but never used em daily, for a longer period | 17:41 |
| Lava_Croft | i always get annoyed by iOS and outright pissed at android | 17:41 |
| djszapi__ | well, the harmattan design did try to follow the iphone way. | 17:42 |
| Lava_Croft | sadly, yes | 17:42 |
| Lava_Croft | but the overall experience is much better | 17:42 |
| Lava_Croft | multitasking <3 | 17:42 |
| djszapi__ | I was developing for it almost two years ago, when my woman acquaintance already had such a thing in her hands, what we were developing :) | 17:42 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 17:42 |
| Lava_Croft | i wished they just stuck with pure Maemo | 17:42 |
| djszapi__ | really, the design is not that a lot different. | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | but mehhh | 17:43 |
| djszapi__ | Although, I like the iphone design, but still, it is not individual this way, how it could have been. | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | thats the feel of the N9 software, yes | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my whyPhone experience: "I need to send him a SMS, I forgot my N900 at home. Gimme your spyPhone!" "here..." "DAFAQ! how do I send SMS?" "wait... here.. and then... umm.. and now..." "OK thanks. Hope I get it now. ... WHAT THE FSCK is *that*?? I can't type a single word on that 'keyboard'" | 17:43 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: you have trouble adjusting! | 17:44 |
| Lava_Croft | iphone keyboard actually isnt that bad | 17:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | MEH | 17:45 |
| MohammadAG | it's actually good | 17:45 |
| MohammadAG | the way it predicts stuff, even arabic swear words written in English letters, freaks me out | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *hate* that crrappy capacitive touchscreen 'keyboards' | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | i turn prediction off, always | 17:45 |
| Lava_Croft | and i cant hate on a silly gadget | 17:46 |
| MohammadAG | I don't, if it's not automatic | 17:46 |
| MohammadAG | there's a JB tweak that makes prediction show the word, but to insert it you have to click it | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they way it 'predicts' what I want to write - just 100% false... freaks me out | 17:46 |
| MohammadAG | the default behavior on an iPhone is to insert the word unless you click it | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont like my computer thinking for me when it comes to typing, thats all | 17:46 |
| Lava_Croft | i have to go, bb! o/ | 17:46 |
| djszapi__ | have fun | 17:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this predictive keybord thing makes me sound like an illiterate or I use a vocabulary like thise braindamaged FB-kids. I want to sound like the idiot *I* am, though. Not like one of *that* kind of idiots | 17:49 |
| tazz | i am stuck at 95% download for http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/d6.php?f=i386-public-sdk-rootstrap.tgz, the page wont get me resume download using wget. | 17:50 |
| tazz | How else should i go forward. If i want to continue from 95% ? | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, actually I use it mainly for punctuation :P | 17:50 |
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| tazz | this is not exactly an on topic question, but i couldnt think of a better place to ask this. | 17:51 |
| djszapi__ | tazz: wget -c ? | 17:51 |
| djszapi__ | after knowing the url | 17:51 |
| MohammadAG | he already said it won't let him | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tazz: anyway, first make a copy of what you got so far! | 17:51 |
| tazz | djszapi__, there is a page where you have to click "I Accept" before it lets me go forward. | 17:51 |
| MohammadAG | tazz, you'll need to accept, export cookies as a netscape cookie file, then load that cookie file with wget | 17:52 |
| tazz | DocScrutinizer05, yup already done. Tried to resume using chrome/firefox/etc... didnt work. | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | tazz, what did you start the download with? | 17:52 |
| hiemanshu | tazz: use cookie.txt exporter and use that, there are chrome/firefox extenstions | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tazz: listen to MohammadAG, he knows his way around | 17:53 |
| hiemanshu | tazz: then wget --load-cookies cookie.txt -c should do it | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/export-cookies/?src=api | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | that's what I used | 17:53 |
| tazz | shall try the cookie method. | 17:53 |
| djszapi__ | it should be viable by wget, yep | 17:53 |
| hiemanshu | yo MohammadAG | 17:53 |
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| MohammadAG | yo hiemanshu | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | sup dawg | 17:53 |
| tazz | MohammadAG, i was using harmattan-sdk-setup.py | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | tazz, wonder what that uses... | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | python? ;-P | 17:54 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: writing a nmap frontend :P | 17:54 |
| djszapi__ | so "it will let you". | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, yeah, but it might be using os.system("wget") :P | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what it probably does, yes | 17:55 |
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| MohammadAG | hiemanshu, dump that and strip fapman's code of UI stuff for me :P | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | then write a backend for http://i47.tinypic.com/20gmyps.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/f4iwk9.jpg | 17:56 |
| hiemanshu | MohammadAG: this is for the maemo contest so I can get a N9, I'll do that next with you :) | 17:56 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 17:57 |
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| passi | did anyone see problems with the size of the X-Loader image so far? I can't seem to be able to flash my N9 due to that | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | umm | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not even sure there's such a thing like a plain xloader image | 18:17 |
| passi | it's the error I get when trying to flash the standard DFL61 image | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually a cmdline parameters error | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or image to flash been corrupted by download | 18:20 |
| passi | ok, will try to download again | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do a md5sum | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | compare | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check your commadline | 18:21 |
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| djszapi__ | DocScrutinizer05: so what are you hacking nowadays on? | 18:35 |
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| djszapi__ | MohammadAG: you would use a C++ API for scenegraphs in Qt5 instead of qtquick2? | 18:56 |
| rzr | n950 @ 2KEUR ! https://twitter.com/jean_clovis/status/222561506758369280 | 19:01 |
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| qwazix_ | open("/dev/fb1", O_RDWR); gives me permission denied when run as user, what could it be? | 19:06 |
| djszapi__ | read write ? | 19:06 |
| qwazix_ | yep | 19:06 |
| djszapi__ | most likely you cannot write | 19:06 |
| djszapi__ | try from the console... | 19:06 |
| qwazix_ | Code is verbatim from fcam example | 19:06 |
| qwazix_ | and if I just build from scratchbox it works | 19:07 |
| qwazix_ | If I open the project in Qt creator, it gives error, so it probably is some permission thingie | 19:07 |
| qwazix_ | manifest.aegis and syspart.conf seem correct | 19:07 |
| djszapi__ | use sb, it is that simple :) | 19:07 |
| djszapi__ | QtCreator to the trash ! | 19:08 |
| qwazix_ | mm, I think that Qt creator has already made the change that breaks it though, so I would like to find what it is | 19:08 |
| qwazix_ | or I'll have to start copying code block by block to see where the problem lies | 19:09 |
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| qwazix_ | djszapi__, it works through sb fine even now :), so I'll just use sb for final builds | 19:15 |
| qwazix_ | thanks | 19:15 |
| djszapi__ | great | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | what does cat /sys/devices/omapdss/display0/rotate say on your n9s ? | 21:07 |
| azeem | 1 | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | hm, interesting | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | and tear_elim in same directory? | 21:08 |
| azeem | same | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 21:08 |
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| azeem | whoa, I managed to segfault Drive | 21:22 |
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| azeem | can I dump the content of a QML structure/object to the console somehow? | 21:25 |
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| tazz_ | you know what would be a badass idea? NES emulator for harmattan. | 21:35 |
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| azeem | well, for the N950 maybe, I guess without hardware buttons it is not much fun | 21:37 |
| phako | tazz_: er | 21:37 |
| phako | tazz_: there's one | 21:37 |
| phako | tazz_: emumaster | 21:37 |
| phako | http://store.ovi.com/content/207988?clickSource=search&pos=1 | 21:38 |
| tazz_ | azeem, neither do iphones and samsung galaxy phones. | 21:38 |
| tazz_ | phako, this is really cool thanks. | 21:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: sup | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: i saw your post about repos future and your opinion about COBS | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: i think you should take part in next council meeting or OBS transfer meeting =) | 21:41 |
| MohammadAG | Nth much, helping someone with and i can't figure it out | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | Python | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | I hate cobs | 21:42 |
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| djszapi__ | c-obs will be gone anyway | 21:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: the point that people who are responsible for future structure don't really know what devs opinions are | 21:44 |
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| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG: i'm thinking idea of cobs is fine, but it need to be re-done and not changing existing one to work with fremantle/harmattan | 21:45 |
| djszapi__ | again, c-obs will be gone | 21:45 |
| djszapi__ | it is not going to be re-done | 21:45 |
| djszapi__ | it is not possible. | 21:46 |
| djszapi__ | it indeed needs changing, and it was discussed | 21:46 |
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| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: what are you talking about? | 21:48 |
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| djszapi__ | ZogG_laptop: you do not know anything about all these things? | 21:48 |
| djszapi__ | This has been a long story. | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'mm talking about work done to port fremantle garage to cobs and including there harmattan for future structure for maemo community | 21:48 |
| djszapi__ | was mentioned at many times in public | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it's going right now | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | so cobs is what you would have for harmattan and fremantle future. | 21:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | so it's time to speak up now and do something about it | 21:49 |
| djszapi__ | again, it is *not* possible | 21:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: and no, i mean re-done is not taking cobs and changing. i mean to take idea and make own thing | 21:50 |
| djszapi__ | you are proposing something which will be gone pretty soon | 21:50 |
| djszapi__ | cool job! | 21:50 |
| djszapi__ | I will look for the meeting minutes later. | 21:50 |
| djszapi__ | when we discussed this in open. | 21:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: check the last council meeting | 21:50 |
| djszapi__ | I really do not know need to. | 21:51 |
| djszapi__ | the people who matained the c-obs for Harmattan are not council members. | 21:51 |
| djszapi__ | maintained* | 21:51 |
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| djszapi__ | and we discussed this with people who have actually been working on this. | 21:52 |
| djszapi__ | do not need to* | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | but X-Fade is now working on it | 21:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | what are you talking about? | 21:53 |
| djszapi__ | meh | 21:54 |
| djszapi__ | build.obs.maemo.org was considered as an option in May. | 21:56 |
| djszapi__ | that is not community obs | 21:56 |
| djszapi__ | again, that is not community obs. | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | man why are you so stuborn | 21:56 |
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| ZogG_laptop | do i need to f put your face in log? | 21:56 |
| djszapi__ | http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2012-May/004208.html | 21:58 |
| djszapi__ | was even a topic already in April to move *away* cobs: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-community/re-replacement_for_meego_community_obs/ | 22:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2012-07-13.log.html#t2012-07-13T21:32:19 | 22:08 |
| djszapi__ | they say the same | 22:10 |
| djszapi__ | no cobs, please. | 22:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's me saying no cobs | 22:10 |
| djszapi__ | there will be a replacement with an own obs solution, as far as I read. | 22:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | it will be based on something like build.meego.con as i understand | 22:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it might be different here and there but pretty the same | 22:11 |
| djszapi__ | well nope | 22:11 |
| djszapi__ | it is going to be done for maemo | 22:11 |
| djszapi__ | with upstream obs | 22:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | it would be done for BOTH | 22:11 |
| djszapi__ | also, I do not see point of a fremantle target, but if someone is that desperate why not... | 22:13 |
| djszapi__ | it is just a maintenance overhead for not much gain. | 22:13 |
| djszapi__ | I'd rather see a working solution for one target properly at the same time | 22:13 |
| djszapi__ | we all know how much pain it was just to get one Harmattan target right... | 22:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | you are more harmattan guy but maemo community is more maemo community and harmattan is just small part | 22:17 |
| djszapi__ | are you sure about the "jus small part" ? | 22:18 |
| djszapi__ | just* | 22:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: yes | 22:19 |
| djszapi__ | show me activity this much outside Harmattan | 22:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: one of the reasons is aegis btw =) | 22:19 |
| djszapi__ | in the maemo world | 22:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: CSSU | 22:19 |
| djszapi__ | if you do not understand the difference between a framework and its usage... just try to avoid commenting on that, please. | 22:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | it makes it harder for CSSU and futher community improvement of platform, that and more closed parts | 22:21 |
| djszapi__ | blaming the Qt framework just because there is a crappy application, is ridiculous | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't blame Qt framework | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | where did you see that? | 22:22 |
| djszapi__ | you are not getting the parallel example. | 22:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | as example MohammadAG's unrestricted-system-ui and the way we need to install it =\ | 22:23 |
| djszapi__ | nvm. | 22:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: it's not like it was your suggestion to have it on sytem. and you may done good job writting it. but still its just pain in the ... | 22:24 |
| djszapi__ | sometimes I feel that, certain people do not have enough friends, and bitching about aegis here makes friends. :) | 22:24 |
| djszapi__ | it indeed was our suggestion to have it on the system | 22:25 |
| djszapi__ | aka. by our team members | 22:25 |
| djszapi__ | and no end user complaining about aegis | 22:25 |
| djszapi__ | apart form devs | 22:25 |
| djszapi__ | from* | 22:25 |
| djszapi__ | 95-99% of the people are absolutely happy to have a more secure phone. | 22:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: right, and he have sustem with full Nokia official support, where we don't need community devs? | 22:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what is going on... | 22:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: djszapi__ telling how aegis is loved by users and only hated by devs =) | 22:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | as well as harmattan is main part of maemo community =) | 22:26 |
| djszapi__ | actually I should not get involved in this aegis trolling | 22:27 |
| djszapi__ | whenever it is bitched about :) | 22:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not trolling | 22:27 |
| djszapi__ | so I will just leave it now... =) | 22:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | you just asked | 22:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, build.pub.meego.com = cobs | 22:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if someone takes over cobs or puts up their own obs or whatever, then that can be the new cobs | 22:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: yeah and maemo community trying to get frematnle there, just on other hosting together with harmattan | 22:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i stated it as well | 22:28 |
| * dm8tbr idly watches and grabs some popcorn | 22:28 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | and w/r/t aegis, the best case scenario with aegis is that you aren't affected by it | 22:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | joe average doesn't run into aegis, know about aegis, benefit from aegis, or experience aegis problems | 22:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | regular users don't have any need to circumvent aegis but that doesn't mean they like it | 22:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | but he can't get new awesome thing that needs inception as he is average joe and can just rune his phone | 22:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's "just there" | 22:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | without aegis he would just download and install it | 22:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | and the question of what to download is actually user responsobility | 22:30 |
| djszapi__ | yeah, and would install any crap as well... | 22:30 |
| djszapi__ | HAHAHA | 22:30 |
| djszapi__ | there is no need for sysadmins! | 22:30 |
| djszapi__ | and firewalls! | 22:30 |
| djszapi__ | users will have the responsibility! | 22:30 |
| djszapi__ | well done! | 22:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: so set your root password to something you don't know and never use it | 22:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | let's put aegis on ubuntu and any linux | 22:31 |
| djszapi__ | yeah, and then get cracked as kernel.org... | 22:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | people will like it | 22:31 |
| djszapi__ | good job! | 22:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | let's use it in kernel so u can't do anything with your PC | 22:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: how is site cracked related? | 22:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: your aegis in cracked by inception as well, sooooooo what's the point you was telling? | 22:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what exactly are we arguing about, anyway | 22:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: i was talking how aegis is only stopping from improving system, but he tells it's benefit for users | 22:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a bit late to be arguing that aegis is a beneficial thing, because it doesn't really accomplish much even if it had perfectly good intentions | 22:33 |
| dm8tbr | itsnotabigtruck: it seems an argument for arguments sake. lean back, grab popcorn. | 22:33 |
| djszapi__ | ZogG_laptop: sure, you can crack anything, but ofc it does not mean you should not increase the security for your bike while storing. | 22:33 |
| djszapi__ | just because it can be stolen anyway | 22:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | when it comes to computer security, you have it or you don't | 22:33 |
| djszapi__ | yeah, so turn off firewalls | 22:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | half measures are no measures | 22:33 |
| djszapi__ | proxies everything | 22:33 |
| djszapi__ | turn off the securities in the banks | 22:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: it's different things | 22:34 |
| djszapi__ | lol... | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you're comparing apples to oranges | 22:34 |
| djszapi__ | just because they are not perfect. | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you're talking about "defense in depth" | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aegis isn't "defense in depth" | 22:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: if there would be option to configure aegis, i mean fully. it would be nice | 22:34 |
| djszapi__ | ZogG_laptop: there is | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this is like a firewall that doesn't actually firewall anything | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but you say it's better than nothing | 22:34 |
| djszapi__ | aegis is a framework. I am pretty amazed you have been here so long, and you have not still realized | 22:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: i want to have access to LED, how can i do it? | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or a firewall that has a bug that allows someone to root your computer | 22:34 |
| djszapi__ | what you build on top of that, you are good to go. | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aegis might have noble intentions but in practice it makes you less secure | 22:35 |
| djszapi__ | it is *NOT*, again *NOT* the fault of the framework, if not used correctly. | 22:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because it opens up opportunities to gain privileges that shouldn't have been gained | 22:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: the problem is that i can't, as i don't have permissions or anything | 22:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that would be impossible without aegis | 22:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | but on other hand if i would have to ask for any permission i could write virus and than user would install it | 22:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | so it's pointless | 22:35 |
| * djszapi__ is away, has better things to do =) | 22:36 | |
| *** faenil has joined #harmattan | 22:37 | |
| djszapi__ | actually now thinking of, you do not really need to put aegis into the linux kernel | 22:40 |
| djszapi__ | its upstream version is already there. | 22:40 |
| djszapi__ | our job was accepted by Linus itself. | 22:40 |
| djszapi__ | so it is again just lack of information, but a lot of talking, but whatever. | 22:41 |
| *** CreamyG31337 has joined #harmattan | 22:45 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi__: https://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git;a=tree;f=security;h=66e4de8fb4904829e9c8e78a5db07e399a8d9b46;hb=ff74ae50f01ee67764564815c023c362c87ce18b | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | doesn't look like it | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (that's the tree for kernel 3.4.4) | 22:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: they call it selinux there =P | 22:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's the apparmor, selinux, smack, tomoyo linux, and yama LSMs, plus the integrity measurement architecture (for tpms) | 22:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and the kernel key storage interface | 22:51 |
| djszapi__ | itsnotabigtruck: lack of information again, with lot of talking | 22:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and the capabilities lsm | 22:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nothing that looks anything like aegis | 22:51 |
| djszapi__ | I do not know how you can miss "smack" over there. | 22:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | smack != aegis | 22:51 |
| djszapi__ | then you are blind | 22:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: than where is link? i see you talk a lot, but no fact to provide | 22:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | afaict they're very different | 22:51 |
| tehdely | hey guys | 22:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | smack was going to be the basis for the replacement for aegis, that never really happened | 22:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it isn't aegis itself | 22:51 |
| tehdely | how about that weather and/or area sports team | 22:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 22:51 |
| djszapi__ | LOL | 22:51 |
| djszapi__ | replacement | 22:52 |
| djszapi__ | LOL | 22:52 |
| djszapi__ | never really happened | 22:52 |
| djszapi__ | made my day :) | 22:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | you take it too personal and it amuses =) | 22:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw there was song "smack my aegis up" but than they called it different =) | 22:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | https://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git;a=blob;f=security/smack/smack_lsm.c;h=45c32f074166b270fe5434cfcc24ffa076f8b7a3;hb=ff74ae50f01ee67764564815c023c362c87ce18b#l13 | 22:54 |
| djszapi__ | tehdely: it is very rainy on the coast of the Atlantic Ocean. =) | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a +q would make MY day | 23:04 |
| tehdely | pretty gloomy out by the pacific today | 23:04 |
| tehdely | although ti's sunny inland | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and actually I'm in a mood for +q today | 23:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: you just can stop talking if you want | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop highlighting me with bullshit, fool! | 23:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: i though you still ignore me =\ | 23:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | i already got used and felt good to say something when you can't read me =) | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm finally coming to the conclusion I should take business as chanop serious and assume I'm not that special with my feelings about particular tones and behaviours. And since I already hear in out-of-band channels how the bitching and tone in this channel is provoking phatasies of beating-up etc, I think I shouldn't ignore anybody any further, and rather use +q and +b a little bit more often | 23:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | your choice | 23:36 |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 23:37 | |
| ZogG_laptop | but there are two things you need to think about than | 23:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | 1) does it actually disturb others or only you( the things and conversations you don't like) | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all this channel once been meant for developers helping developers, not for self-nominated experts fighting with self-nominated world-savers | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: simple answer? I'll instantly +b next one who causes any out-of-chan complaint | 23:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | and 2) than you can't have same small talks and argues and you do have those | 23:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | 2^ | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | two trolls feeding eac other don't already make a vlauable contribution | 23:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | but 1)it's our time and 2) why anyone who you don't agree with/share opinion with is called troll? | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: sorry dude, that's my hard duty as chanop to decide that all on my own | 23:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | 'sup | 23:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: do not repeat Estel situation here as well =\ | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | general rule: if it doesn't contribute useful info for others, it's trolling (or a friendly chat out of botedom) | 23:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: have you seen project i sent you link to? | 23:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | the one niwakame|away mostly writting now? | 23:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer05: the fact that you have said "feelings" is proof alone that you shouldn't be banning people willy nilly | 23:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (guessing you won't read this anyway) | 23:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: maybe? | 23:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: agree that it would be useless but not trolling. trolling is when someone provoce other on purpose | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | genral rule #2: the third repetition of a conversaton with almost same wording is just noise, thus also not appreciated | 23:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | can you explain where you apply here second rule? | 23:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: can't you tell him that he's on the record many times talking about how he hates harmattan and this channel, so maybe he should just ignore it and pay attention to things he likes | 23:47 |
| djszapi__ | if this channel had ever worked that way, the same whinings all over again about aegis without helping anything would have been banned last summer | 23:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: i think he doesn't ignore you anymore, he was ignoring me | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check chanlogs for discussions with djszapi__ about usefulness of aegis, and you'll learn | 23:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: i think Doc would ban himself as well than =P | 23:48 |
| djszapi__ | indeed | 23:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer: do you ignore itsnotabigtruck ? | 23:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | probably | 23:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | i just do not want to copypaste, he asked to tell you ^ | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a known fact that djszapi__is convinced aegis is a fine implementation, it's a fact most users don't really agree and especially think aegis _policies_ on HARM are crap. And it's fact this discussion been done ad nauseum for at least 5 times now. Next time I'll +q everybody involved | 23:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: it was part of bigger discussion of CSSU and that harmattan is little part of maemo community and not the main part | 23:51 |
| azeem | it would be the main part by now, if there wasn't Aegis | 23:54 |
| azeem | oops ;) | 23:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | that was my point actually. but let's close it. Doc is not in the mood today and i need to go away. So night guys. | 23:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: can you tell beford something if you see him here? he is here at nights and mornings as i understand | 23:58 |
| djszapi__ | and he has email as well that he cheks :-) | 23:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi__: can you give it to me? | 23:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | nvm | 23:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'll tweet him | 23:59 |
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