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| Estel_ | Morning, ladies and guys. | 19:51 |
|---|---|---|
| rzr | hi | 19:53 |
| rzr | meeting in 6mins ? | 19:54 |
| Estel_ | 1 hour and 6 min :) | 19:54 |
| Estel_ | (it's almost 17 UTC now, we're meeting @ 18 UTC) | 19:55 |
| Estel_ | Will You attend to meeting? | 19:55 |
| rzr | i\ll try to | 19:56 |
| rzr | i want to save obs :) | 19:56 |
| rzr | glad to see X-Fade is here | 19:57 |
| Estel_ | Nice to hear that :) | 20:05 |
| Estel_ | I'm literally dying for more Community input in Council's meetings. | 20:07 |
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| ZogG_laptop | did i miss it? | 20:32 |
| rzr | no you're on time | 20:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | yeah google is awesome "UTC time" would return you the current time =P | 20:41 |
| rzr | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=utc+time | 20:43 |
| Estel_ | It's still 10 minutes to meeting | 20:50 |
| rzr | ZogG_laptop, /exec -o date -u | 20:59 |
| Estel_ | All right, it's 18 UTC | 21:00 |
| rzr | Fri Jul 13 18:00:07 UTC 2012 | 21:00 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, Woody14619, ping | 21:00 |
| ivgalvez | Estel_ pong | 21:00 |
| Estel_ | hi ivgalvez :) I've pinged You via private message, while ago | 21:00 |
| Woody14619 | I am here... We are waiting on Rob and Niel? | 21:00 |
| Estel_ | sure, 5 minutes as always? | 21:01 |
| ivgalvez | let's wait a few minutes for SD69 | 21:01 |
| ivgalvez | Niel will be late | 21:01 |
| Estel_ | X-Fade will try to drop @ 19 UTC | 21:01 |
| ivgalvez | that would be great! | 21:02 |
| ivgalvez | unfortunately I need to leave at that time | 21:02 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, meantime, hour ago, I've asked You about something: let me quote: | 21:02 |
| Woody14619 | I will be available in that time frame. We really need to get an update on OBS and how others can help out. | 21:03 |
| Woody14619 | I saw your post Estel | 21:03 |
| Woody14619 | I will reply in time. | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | <Estel_> Woody14619, could You, kindly, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84647&page=11 | 21:03 |
| Estel_ | <Estel_> ...I think that commenting and clearing it is quite important thing to do before today's Council's meeting :) | 21:04 |
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| Estel_ | thanks, I hoped You weill manage to clear it out before meeting | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | As a pre-meeting: The only agenda item I see currently is discussion of the bylaws document written up Rob. | 21:04 |
| Estel_ | will* | 21:04 |
| ivgalvez | I'd rather focus on imprtant stuff | 21:04 |
| Woody14619 | I will do this on my own time Estel. | 21:04 |
| ivgalvez | i.e. bylaws | 21:04 |
| ivgalvez | and infrastructure | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | Are there additional topics needed today? | 21:05 |
| ivgalvez | OK, we are all, Woody14619 please proceed | 21:05 |
| Estel_ | well, considering low ammount of agenda items njow, and ammount of bad taste such suggestions on TMO are making, I see it as approriate to clear it during recorder, public meeting. | 21:05 |
| rzr | backuping wiki / obs ? | 21:05 |
| ivgalvez | Hi rzr | 21:05 |
| Woody14619 | I will add the topic rzr, but most of that would need input from X-Fade. | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: personal matters later, leave it to the end if you want it so bad | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | OK. Let's start then. | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | could we start with summing up tasks appointed during last meeting... | 21:06 |
| SD69 | hello | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | then? | 21:06 |
| Estel_ | hi SD69, nice to have You here | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | #start Maemo Council meeting | 21:06 |
| Woody14619 | Topics for todays meeting: | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: it would be nice to have the work to be more public, i think there are a lot of users who want to help with input | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | Review and progress with bylaws (next steps) | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, we appreciate every input, but lets process as per agenda, ok? | 21:07 |
| ivgalvez | I have already contacted with X-Fade as agreed in last meeting to ask for administration privileges of some (or most) Maemo systems, so we could start working groups for these tasks | 21:07 |
| ivgalvez | so if he comes later | 21:07 |
| ivgalvez | that topic could be discussed | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | Infrastructure discussion | 21:07 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, saw it, very well written | 21:07 |
| Woody14619 | Misc topics (AI review, summary, etc) | 21:07 |
| rzr | side question is meego.com infrastructure doomed also ? | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | why so? | 21:08 |
| ivgalvez | meego.com is a dead man walking I'm afraid | 21:08 |
| Estel_ | ah, You mean meego as not related to Mer | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | First, to Rob and Ivan: Thank you for the followups to X-Fade and Qgil. We should ask that all e-mails be directed to Council if we can though, so we're all in the loop. | 21:08 |
| rzr | well it is still online, i guess there is no migration planned ? | 21:08 |
| Woody14619 | (eg the mail from Qgil was just to Rob until he coppied it in to Council w/ his reply) | 21:09 |
| Estel_ | rzr, no one contacted us about anything meego (as per nokia) related | 21:09 |
| Woody14619 | Topic 1: Bylaws and formation of new entity | 21:10 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, I agree - it just makes things easier for cooperation. | 21:10 |
| Woody14619 | SD69: It looks like the feedback on the mailing list is positive. Should we start the discussion on TMO as well? | 21:10 |
| SD69 | OK with me | 21:11 |
| ivgalvez | I think we should, not everyone follows mailing list | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | Well, most of comments were made through mail, on community mailing list. Icluding very helpful suggestions from both Andre | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | yea | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i think it's always should be discussed in all channels | 21:11 |
| ivgalvez | we could publish it via Council blog | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, we preffwer less chaotic approach. | 21:11 |
| Woody14619 | How do we want to put this out in a way that people won't later come back and say "I never saw this!" | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, but what about suggestions from mailing list? | 21:11 |
| Estel_ | should we update bylaws using them? | 21:12 |
| ivgalvez | first, we need to update it yes | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: tru there is a lot of offtopic on TMO, but there are a lot of people who do not read maillist and have valuable input | 21:12 |
| Woody14619 | I think the mailing-list suggestions are being folded in. | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | most of them sounded sane, others were polished | 21:12 |
| ivgalvez | it was AI for SD69 from latest meeting ;) | 21:12 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, sure, that's why we're planning to threat vTMO input as of exactly same importance :) | 21:12 |
| SD69 | I can update the bylaws if that is wanted | 21:13 |
| Estel_ | So, SD69, do You agree that it's best to appoint publishing them on TMO to You? | 21:13 |
| ivgalvez | yes please | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | Okey. Maybe we can even use the wiki, as it allows discussion and markup? Just a thought. | 21:13 |
| Estel_ | Good idea. | 21:13 |
| SD69 | I will start a thread for the bylaws | 21:13 |
| ivgalvez | the document could be transcribed to the Wiki | 21:13 |
| Woody14619 | I would like to try to wind up the process of getting approval ASAP though and get the paperwork in to get this moving. | 21:13 |
| ivgalvez | byut we need to be careful | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | I'll ask IRc chanops (read: DocScrutinizer, most likely) to change IRC topic | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | so it will point to bylaws discussion | 21:14 |
| ivgalvez | to avoid unjustified modifications | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, sure, but we need to make rules precise, as changing them latter is quite troubling | 21:14 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, trackingt changes should prevent that | 21:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: that can be useful, but most of the old members always online, they wouldn't see topic =\ | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | I can take "detective" work on me | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, sure, but it is everything we can do re informing on IRC :) | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | What do you mean by that Estel_? "Detective work"? | 21:15 |
| Woody14619 | Reguardless, wiki roll-backs and edits are pretty easy to work with. | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | I feel urge to write that I mean tracking whose cut leg was found on trash bin, but, seriously | 21:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: maybe than to add ~future and ~bylaws, people use those fancy things | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | I meant wiki edits history | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, good idea | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | so, to sum this up: SD69 update bylaws and write them on TMO, Estel creates wiki page and prevents vadalism... | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | + covers up informing IRC channel | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | right? | 21:17 |
| Woody14619 | K. So, SD69, you will fold in suggestions from the mailing list, and re-present them to TMO? I think the best way is probably via a council blog post. | 21:17 |
| SD69 | OK | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | it auto-creates thread on TMO, but ONLY if proper "abstract" field is provided | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | I learned it hard way - it was why initial blog entries haven't resulted in TMO thread. | 21:18 |
| Woody14619 | That will re-hit the mailing list, start a TMO thread, etc. Estel_ can then setup a wiki page to reference and add said reference to the TMO chain. | 21:18 |
| ivgalvez | sound fine | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | yes, said. | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | so, next point? | 21:19 |
| Woody14619 | Awesome. So, part two of this: How do we want to get "final by in"? | 21:19 |
| SD69 | changes are going to have to be valid and prudent for bylaws | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | SD69, sure | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | no one said You must implement them literally | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | i.e. commons sense and lawyer sense apply :) | 21:19 |
| ivgalvez | let's see Quim response to SD69 email regarding Maemo trademark | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | Yes, but no need to wait for it before starting TMO thread. Agree? | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | sure | 21:20 |
| Woody14619 | Do we want to just have a cut-off date, or a poll, or? I think a actual "vote" is a bit much... | 21:20 |
| ivgalvez | a poll in the TMO thread could help | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | I think referendum would be approriate. | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | I mean, before final cut. | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | i have suggestions regarding TMO posts | 21:21 |
| Woody14619 | I want to make sure people feel they had input into this, since we do want them donating. | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | I want their input, not only feeling | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would suggest to talk to moderators and make one close thread with only updates and link to discussion thread | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | ;P | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | so we keep one clean and one with everything (inluding unpreventable offtopic) | 21:21 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, any important change is posted on Councils blog anyway, which creates new thread... | 21:22 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, a referendum takes a lot to setup. | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | so, splitting such new thread into two another threads (annoucement and discussion) sounds like unnecessary | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, indeed, but before making SUCH change, we should check if majority of active people support it | 21:22 |
| Woody14619 | Zogg, I like the idea, but implimenting that and bugging a moderator every time we want to append would be painful. | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | if not, other variant is winding-up, or foundation by minority | 21:23 |
| ivgalvez | I agree that splitting threads seems unnecesary, about referendum, wouldn't it be better to associate with first boar election | 21:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | As well regarding new Board, i'll repeat my maillist comment - I think it's important to have main developers of CSSU to be there, at least few to represent and be involved with community and decisions | 21:23 |
| ivgalvez | otherwise it will be overwhelming | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | also, referendum mkay be necessar4y, if clear 2 or 3 visions will appear during discussions | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, have Y^ou asked main developers of CSSU if they want be there? | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | Last time I tried to buggy freemangordon and Pali about them becoming Councilors, they refuased | 21:24 |
| Woody14619 | Interesting idea ivgalvez... to merge the elections and referendum. I like that idea. | 21:24 |
| Woody14619 | But the problem with that is, it will delay formation. | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, yea, but before we can elect Board, we need to know decisions about whole board shape and reesponsibilities | 21:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: that's why i think we need position when they are "representing devs" | 21:24 |
| Woody14619 | To actuall form the entity, one must have bylaws on which they will be running (correct SD69?) | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | It may be depending on decisions about shape of foundation. | 21:24 |
| ivgalvez | ZogG_laptop, Council (or Board) takes a lot of time even just for email checking, maybe those more involved with development don't like this kind of work | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, exactly | 21:25 |
| ivgalvez | work of Council is to provide developers what they need | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | their argumentation was that they like us - i.e. Community "activist" to be in Council | 21:25 |
| ivgalvez | otherwise they won't develop | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | so they can code in peace | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | and reffer to us when needed | 21:25 |
| ivgalvez | but sure we will need developers (or administrators) to maintain the infrastructure | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | ok, I think we can leave referendum thing to post-TMO discussion - we will se if there is - generally - consensus, or 2 or more "Strong supported" yet mutually exclusive shapes | 21:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | ivgalvez: they do not like to talk about it and politics, but again i think it's more healthy. the Board can be divided in few parts imho and not like now 5 councils. i think more people have responsobilities more poeple involved | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | agree? | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | OK. so we're at en pass... | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, for that we have working groups and their leaders | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, have You seen discussion in mailing list? | 21:26 |
| Woody14619 | This is topic is not super critical, but me must think on it and make a decission soon. | 21:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: partly, i had exam yesterday, hardly have time = | 21:27 |
| ivgalvez | let's say that merlin1991 volunteers to be repo administrator, he doesn't need to discuss about other questions he's not interested in | 21:27 |
| rzr | let me remind a suggestion what do you thing about spreading an archive of the wiki ? | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, no problem, please read it to have wide horizon about whole idea :) | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | rzr, define spreading? | 21:27 |
| rzr | tar && torrent | 21:27 |
| Woody14619 | We may also need to consider that the election machine may not be viable long term. We need to look at getting something to replace it soon, preferably something very close to the existing system. | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | why so? We, probably, can just get it's database | 21:28 |
| Estel_ | if not, Rest assured, we will make copies | 21:28 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, not true, election machine is FOSS | 21:28 |
| Woody14619 | It's a lot more than a database. | 21:28 |
| Estel_ | available and runnable almost everywhere | 21:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | yes, but isn't it related to karma and TMO and MO memeberships? | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | i.e. election machine can be run on any, even quite small scale, server. Basically, any server we will have to serve our needs. | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | See bug report about last election start. | 21:29 |
| Woody14619 | That's great. But even with the openness of it, some will bulk if it's nost hosted on Nokia hardware, citing it could be tampered with. | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, not related, as whole foundations will be managed by some people, so they can tamper with "everything" | 21:29 |
| ivgalvez | my biggest concern now is TMO, without a proper continuation of service, we are almost doomed | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | i.e it's either good bylaws and rules = trust for Board, or lack of trust at all | 21:30 |
| Woody14619 | And yes, generating tokens is simple, figuring out who to make tokens for and where to send them is another problem entierly. | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | BTW, voting mechanism ensures, that everyone can check if their votes were assigned and how. | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | or do re-calculation | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | to confirm official results | 21:30 |
| Woody14619 | All facts I'm aware of Estel_ | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, I ho9pe Reggie will change mind - if nbot, I have idea of smart replicating mechanism | 21:31 |
| Woody14619 | That will not be enough to pursuade everyone though that tampering is impossible. | 21:31 |
| Woody14619 | K... This has veared... | 21:31 |
| ivgalvez | refocus please | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, even now it's impossible to convince everyone that tampering wasn't possible, and trust for Nokia isn't greatest ;) | 21:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | that's why i wanted devs, as they have most trust =\ | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | I think voting isn't any problem at all. | 21:31 |
| Woody14619 | We have actions on this, and considerations for how to get buy in. | 21:31 |
| Woody14619 | We'll re-address the latter next week. | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | next point? | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | Next topic: Infrastructure and OBS progress. | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | well, doesn't it require X-Fade input? | 21:32 |
| Woody14619 | I will to some degree. | 21:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | I think OBS is nice and can be used at start but if we looking in long term it should be improved | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, with all due respect, what You don't like in OBS from technical point of view? | 21:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | a lot of people find it painful | 21:33 |
| Woody14619 | From what I've heard OBS hasn't moved much since I left for vacation a couple weeks ago. | 21:33 |
| ivgalvez | about infrastructure, let's see what subsystems X-Fade can transfer and then start creation of working groups as in COBS | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | i.e "reportedly" it' | 21:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: i used it, it's not that user friendly | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | it"s painful, reportedly? | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | well, most devs are quite optimistic about it | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | We don't plan mkigrating from OBS to something next | 21:33 |
| rzr | at least some pple are using it | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | migrating* damn, sorry for typos. | 21:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can compare apps4meego with garage btw | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | Zogg: many people say that about SB and autobuilder as well... | 21:34 |
| ivgalvez | can we maintain autobuilder at the same time? | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, no, and we don't want to afaik? obs replces autobuilder funcionality | 21:34 |
| ivgalvez | as a fllback mechanism and for old-school people ;) | 21:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: that's why i think maybe we can search for devs to improve it? | 21:34 |
| Woody14619 | I would love that, but right now those devices are only accessable by a few people. | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, BTW, I have forwarded taixo problems with getting upload privilleges to coluncil mail | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | ufortunately, no one replied :( | 21:35 |
| ivgalvez | well COBS has already a working group and it's shared with Mer (which is great as they now have commercial support) | 21:35 |
| Woody14619 | Thus Ivan's e-mail about opening admin privs for some services, either to Council or committies made to help support them. | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | who was talking with X-Fade about uploading permissions for garage accounts, last time? | 21:35 |
| ivgalvez | me, but I'm afraid nothing has change | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | I spoke with X-Fade about it (and replied with his reply). | 21:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Afaik they have some input from some Uni on working with it as i got it right, SD69 you was at mer-meeting | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, we will saee how OBS works in practice, and then, if some - really supported - improvements will be required, why not. | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, sure, X-Fade replied, that there are no request pending | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | but, taixo tried 3 times | 21:36 |
| Woody14619 | It would appread that taixo has not re-applied and that the original request was lost as part of the maintainer going away. | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | and still don't have permissions | 21:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you can try it already with build.meego.com | 21:36 |
| ivgalvez | if he can transfer this administrtion to community we could find someone willing to fix it | 21:37 |
| Woody14619 | I applied for permissions on one of my garages the day after that and got an approval within 224 hours. | 21:37 |
| Woody14619 | 24 hours that is. | 21:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i think COBS can be used as base, but it needs rewrite | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | well, I don't have heart to ask taixo about applying 4th time, but it seems that it will be necessary | 21:37 |
| ivgalvez | to took 3 days | 21:37 |
| ivgalvez | to me | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, first things first. we don't have it running yet | 21:37 |
| Woody14619 | Zog: That is in fact what's happening already with the Maemo OBS project. | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | so lets postpone it for more realistic timeframe | 21:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: than it should be more public | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | sure, but it sounds more like topic for next month - or even later - than for today's meeting | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, everything is public | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | COBS team have weekly meeting at this channel | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | Zogg: are you hosting hardware to do this on? If so, make it public. Currently the hardware is at Nemien. They control the admin strings. | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | at 15 UTC IIRC | 21:38 |
| Woody14619 | Understand, this is not US not giving out rights. We have no more access than you. | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | so, anything we can discuss before X-Fade arrival aboutCOBS, or we can use this time productivily for next point? | 21:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: that's make it problematic | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez will be out soon, so... | 21:39 |
| Woody14619 | Agreed, but what do you propose we do about that? | 21:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | i have small suggestions about meetings here btw | 21:39 |
| ivgalvez | propose | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, how much time do You have left? Same for Rob? | 21:40 |
| ivgalvez | not many | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | the bot that is used at mer-meetings | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | NielDK is MIA from beginnining, right? | 21:40 |
| ivgalvez | NielDK will come later | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | i like the idea of meeting related commands | 21:40 |
| Woody14619 | What benefit does that add though? | 21:41 |
| Woody14619 | We have channel logging, and use hash marks for easy reference into it, in case other meetings happen. | 21:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: Raw log is ok, but i think it would be nice to make it formated and auto posted on like wiki sources/maillist | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | we also have auto logs available for everyone. | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | it's not raw log | 21:41 |
| rzr | can i ask a Q about obs , so far only harmattan/mer builders are in production right , fremantle is for later or not ? | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | see wiki -> IRC | 21:41 |
| Estel_ | there You have linkable etc l,ogs for maemo-meeting too | 21:42 |
| Woody14619 | I'm not opposed to that, but frankly, we already post minutes to blog, tmo and list. | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | rzr, no, fremantle is worked right on too | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | by X-Fade, timoph, and others | 21:42 |
| rzr | but not public to all ? | 21:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: all logs i read is by using links in meeting sums up | 21:42 |
| ivgalvez | feel free to join ;) | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | rzr, everyone can join | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | just write on mailing list or meet them at their meeting | 21:42 |
| *** nieldk has joined #maemo-meeting | 21:43 | |
| Estel_ | hi nieldk | 21:43 |
| rzr | ok thx | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | Nice that You've managed to join us :) | 21:43 |
| nieldk | hi there sorry for being so late | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | rzr, their meetings are @ 15 UTC monday | 21:43 |
| ivgalvez | Unfortunately I have to leave :( ... right when nieldk joins | 21:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: it's not about changing something, its just about adding better format. with links and highlights and so on | 21:43 |
| Estel_ | alternatively, they follow community mailing list | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | zogg: If you look at the posts, there's usually a link to the raw logs for channel as well. | 21:43 |
| ivgalvez | Please insist with X-Fade about transfering administration rights of Garage, repositories, etc, I'm sure that pali, freemangordon, etc will be more than happy to be able to start fixing problems | 21:43 |
| Woody14619 | Thanks ivgalvez. :) | 21:44 |
| ivgalvez | thanks to all, see ya! | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | sure. ivgalvez, Woody14619, SD69, can we jump; to next point before ivgalvez will need to say bb? | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | So. Is there another topic to be addressed? | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | well, I knew it will end like that. | 21:44 |
| Woody14619 | What point is that estel? | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | sure, it is. | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | <Estel_> Woody14619, could You, kindly, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84647&page=11 | 21:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 21:44 |
| ivgalvez | oh no, pretty please... | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | I saw it. And as I said I will reply in time. | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | I really hoped for have whole Council input on this, but... | 21:45 |
| ivgalvez | well I'm leaving | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | ivgalvez, sure... | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | good day/night | 21:45 |
| nieldk | see you iv | 21:45 |
| ivgalvez | cheers | 21:45 |
| *** ivgalvez has quit IRC | 21:45 | |
| Estel_ | Well, things like that - as interpreted by mistgerc (which I got aware of onloy by quotyes in Texrat's posts, as I'm ignoring mkisterc as major crap-maker) | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | create really bad atmosphere. | 21:45 |
| SD69 | bye iv | 21:45 |
| Woody14619 | I will not contaminate this meeting with such things. | 21:45 |
| Estel_ | especially, when not commented. Frankly, I don't see why You can't comment on it swiftly, Woody14619. | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | but it smells fishy :( | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, afaik meetings are our way to communicate with Community, and between us too, right? | 21:46 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: you just make it personal here, it's not ethic. that's simple | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | it's Your right if You cease to comment, but You're aware of light it puts You in? | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, with all due resp;ect, we will decide topics we talk here, ok? :) | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619,= is a chair, and as per Councilors decisions, chair is also representative figure. | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_ Please, stop pushing this. We're trying to get things done here... not devolve into mud slinging. | 21:47 |
| Woody14619 | YEs,... Which is why I'm telling you to DROP THIS. | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | SD69, nieldk, saw link I've mentioned? any input? | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, You started to make it public, so please, be a man of honor. | 21:48 |
| nieldk | yes, saw it | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | This has no place in this meeting. | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | Dwight | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | Is there another topic to be addressed? | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, if You said a, please say b. | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: may we talk a little bit more about OBS? | 21:48 |
| SD69 | I saw it and i'm fine with not discussing it | 21:48 |
| nieldk | and I agree with Woody, this have no place in this meeting | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | we're waitingt for X-Fade, afaik. | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | Done. | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | OK. | 21:48 |
| Woody14619 | What more would you like to talk about on OBS Zogg? | 21:48 |
| Estel_ | if that's majority decision, I'm fine with it. | 21:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i see that a lot of people waiting for resulsts and work of OBS | 21:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | but do devs have other ideas/ options/ and so on? | 21:49 |
| Woody14619 | Agreed. But many devs, while the work with OBS, do not have the skills to set one up. Just like a jet pilot may not know how to fix a plane, or a jet mechanic may not know how to fly one. | 21:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think alternitives are good way to have plan b | 21:50 |
| Woody14619 | There are a handfull working on this, and we do plan to ask X-Fade to open that a bit more, so others can finish the work being done. | 21:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i'll try to talk to X-fade to have maybe demo or beta testing | 21:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | i still find COBS pain in the ... | 21:51 |
| Woody14619 | The problem is, X-Fade is quite busy with Nokia imploding, and the other two or three involved (Stskeeps, javispedro, and merlin1991) are either quitebusy or traveling right now. | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | Yes, but given the option of COBS or nothing? Which is harder? | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | if there's questions on OBS, community is welcome to ask in #mer | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | it might be good and easy for people using SB but not for qtcreator. it's hard to discuss the new one as noone of us get access but i think it would be simuliar | 21:52 |
| Woody14619 | Thank you stskeeps. I think the question is less on OBS and more on the specific Maemo varient thereof though. | 21:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: do you use the same one harmattan using? | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | i know what X-Fade has been working on, so | 21:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | afaik it's easier for mer because of being rpm based as well | 21:54 |
| Woody14619 | My understanding was that the current OBS has package tools that make rpm/deb differences minimal to non-existant. (Minus some dependancy/naming issues?) | 21:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: i'm the one not using SB but QtcReator and it took me a lot of time to get working build of my app, as well as painful. | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't make it a big issue from build farm pov | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | but let's discuss that after meeting | 21:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | I think we're pretty much done with the meeting. (And I would love to hear the details of this. :) | 21:55 |
| Woody14619 | Any other topics? | 21:56 |
| Woody14619 | If not, I'll close the meeting and we can get on with more OBS chatter. :) | 21:56 |
| rzr | so obs is top priority for migration ? | 21:56 |
| nieldk | no other topics | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | I think it is, since migration (and more importantly maintainance) of autobuilder is shakey at best. | 21:57 |
| Woody14619 | k. :) On to other things... | 21:58 |
| SD69 | I don't think it is top priority | 21:58 |
| Woody14619 | I think it's in the ranking. (Clearly formation of an entity, repo/tmo hosting, etc are higher) | 21:58 |
| nieldk | right, without | 21:59 |
| nieldk | ... those, it wouldnmatter | 21:59 |
| Woody14619 | From the build/dev side though, I think it's important... | 21:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | nieldk: it would matter after the foundation will be alive | 21:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would agree that first priority is structure | 22:00 |
| rzr | makes sense | 22:00 |
| Woody14619 | Understand, I take a bit of a dev-centric view on things. | 22:00 |
| nieldk | ZogG_laptop, yes, not saying it has no priority, but we need a house for our furniture ;) | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | Without developers, the community won't survive long. So that tends to draw my focus. | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | Happily I have others on the Council (like SD69) that redirect that to other, sometimes more important, topics too. :) | 22:01 |
| Woody14619 | great analogy neildk. :) | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | and honestly, I'd say repos even have priority over build. But migrating and maintaining those (with the exception of the Nokia-closed repo) is pretty trivial. | 22:02 |
| Woody14619 | ok. So... seeing no more topics... | 22:03 |
| nieldk | Woody14619, agree | 22:03 |
| Woody14619 | #end Maemo Council meeting | 22:03 |
| SD69 | bye everyone | 22:03 |
| rzr | so i can paste that one now http://nokiainnovation.com/2012/07/news-coming-from-jolla-on-monday/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter | 22:03 |
| nieldk | bye SD69 | 22:03 |
| rzr | bye | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | That's not to say eveyone should vanish, but. :) | 22:04 |
| nieldk | still here | 22:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | still here, just talking to roomate about something important | 22:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: i would like to ping you later about OBS | 22:04 |
| Woody14619 | So, stskeeps, I think one vital question we have is what state is the current Maemo OBS project in. | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | OK, are we speaking fremantle or harmattan, first off? | 22:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | both | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | The other big question of X-Fade is: What level of service (hardware & support) will we have. | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | i can't speak on behalf of x-fade, i'll fill you in on details | 22:05 |
| Woody14619 | I was thinking more fremantle, but both are important. | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | I understand you can't answer the latter question. :) | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | Just wanted to get those both out there though, since they're both things of key interest right now. | 22:06 |
| Woody14619 | My understanding is that there already is an OBS for Harmattan. Is that not correct? | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | OK, so, as you know, OBS can do debian based distributions too | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | this is practically a set of .deb files and a project configuration | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | for harmattan | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | no modifications to OBS software itself needed | 22:08 |
| rzr | good to know | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | there are problems with that current approach - everything is run with qemu user mode emulation | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | which is so slow it clogs up a obs | 22:08 |
| rzr | but it was unstable at the begining ? do you know what changed ? | 22:08 |
| Woody14619 | Issues also revovle around packaging Nokia SDK and access to it... | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | yes, nokia didn't always give all out packages needed as scratchbox supported it | 22:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: i think it can be improved in a lot of ways for harmattan and it's still pain in the ass =( | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | so, that's where x-fade's current work before latest dead platform was going | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | he was talking development code of mine, for enabling this thing with scratchbox2 and OBS | 22:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think the core should be the same | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | so it could build with cross compilation | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | fremantle should be possible to enable in similar manner as was done in my description above | 22:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | but i think it should be wrapped with ruby or somethin service when some steps need can be done automaticly and more user friendly | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | it was done to some extent in the past, but harmattan was more important from a business pov | 22:11 |
| Woody14619 | My understanding is that he had the fremantle setup essentialy working, but it just needed some work in packaging stuff so it was a bit more automated (and would transfer nicely to other COBS cores) | 22:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: as example as it uses scratchbox it uses debian folder - right? | 22:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: but QtcReator uses different approach | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: yeah, that makes sense | 22:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | it might be QtcReator fail but it can't be fixed as it's not OSS | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | qtcreator is oss | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | so i'm looking for something that would be more flexibale and build differently and properly depending if it's qtcreator / python or any other options needed | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: so, that's where you are at now.. provided that you can get the .deb's that sits in maemo.org obs, you can set up your own obs with harmattan builds | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | That and some tweeks that have not yet be packaged. :) | 22:14 |
| Woody14619 | But yes... | 22:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: QtCreator is opensource? oh, i didn't know that =) | 22:15 |
| Woody14619 | Which leads to the second question of what hardware Nemien will continute to run on the reduced Nokia contract. | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: you can, FWIW, download all of harmattan debs through OBS api | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | in case x-fade gets run over by a bus | 22:15 |
| rzr | I'm leaving guys , but in case you need some help to setup/migrate obs u can always ask me | 22:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | they are avilable in testing repo afaik | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but like, all the debs | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | i've seen one succesfully do it and start harmattan builds of his own | 22:17 |
| rzr | bye | 22:17 |
| Woody14619 | Lol... Need to buy that man a bus shield. :) And thanks for the compliment, but right now, I could not download anything through OBS api, since I'm really not up to speed on using any of it. :P | 22:17 |
| *** rzr is now known as rZr | 22:17 | |
| ZogG_laptop | yeah i know - i had few weeks exp with it trying to get my app being build | 22:17 |
| nieldk | ZogG_laptop, QtCreator is opensource, but for some usage, licensed | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: just saying what you can do .. | 22:17 |
| Woody14619 | I barely got SB setup enough to compile... yet alone undestanding OBS. :) | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | but anyway, the reason x-fade was working on sb2 and cross compile, was so it would be acceptable on a more 'shared' obs | 22:18 |
| rZr | while i am here | 22:18 |
| Woody14619 | stskeeps: and I apprecate that. :) | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | as otherwise the capacity needs of harmattan builds would be too big | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | but in terms of it being a factual blocker.. not terribly | 22:18 |
| rZr | it would be cool to support at least several platform mer/nemo included | 22:18 |
| rZr | this can be done using a single source ... | 22:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | rZr: it is supported now afaik | 22:19 |
| rZr | just a spec that uses a deb patch | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | if i may be truly honest, it'd be a lot easier if you could restrict yourself to qt apps | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | then that's much easier to handle and cross compile | 22:19 |
| rZr | and it will build rpm/debs | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | but that's just me | 22:19 |
| rZr | ZogG_laptop, but it would be good to publish the same apps in debs and rpm format | 22:20 |
| Woody14619 | So, I guess the question then is really more on the later part: What resources we will have. | 22:20 |
| rZr | this will enhance collaboration ... | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | 150 eur/month can get you very far | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | for having your own obs, too | 22:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | rZr: exact my point | 22:21 |
| rZr | i wrote a draft about that | 22:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | COBS now works as simple robot that makes the same thing for everything | 22:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think it should be more flexible | 22:21 |
| rZr | http://rzr.online.fr/q/pkg | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | as it was mde for opensuse afaik | 22:22 |
| Woody14619 | which is why we're trying to get the legal entity setup. servers req money, money req bank acct, bank acct req entity. :) | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: we might be less technical, but the point to make it usable by not only few devs but as much people as we can, right? | 22:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: maybe someone on TMO has server just for testings? | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: i'm thinking in terms of keeping a developer community going if maemo.org infra goes tits up and is unmaintainable | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | get someone with actual linux knowledge and a obs is easy to set up | 22:23 |
| Woody14619 | And that's the issue. Again, pilot vs mechanic. | 22:23 |
| nieldk | Stskeeps, that part is easy dealtbwith | 22:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: i might be capable to set up it at home, but mostly i would not be one capable to improve/change it =\ | 22:24 |
| Woody14619 | We have lots of willing pilots, but the mechanics have all run out to put out the fire in another hanger, leaving our plane in pieces. ;) | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: or out on a jollyboat.. | 22:24 |
| Woody14619 | lol :) | 22:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | nice one | 22:25 |
| nieldk | Woody14619, Stskeeps :) | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, get me somebody with a bit of shell knowledge and 'curl' and i'll teach him to dump harmattan debs | 22:25 |
| Woody14619 | Not that it's their fault at all. The didn't set the other plane on fire. :) But it doesn't mean our's is flyable. ;) | 22:26 |
| Woody14619 | hmm... | 22:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: Stskeeps is it needed? we want to get a copy? | 22:26 |
| nieldk | Stskeeps, ill ask around, i have the guy hehe | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | yes, you do | 22:26 |
| Woody14619 | I may take you up on that one in the near future stskeeps. | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: feel free to ping me in #mer | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | though not tomorrow, is my birthday | 22:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: what size is it? | 22:26 |
| Woody14619 | I will be out for the weekend, so would be next week at earlies. | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: 600mish? | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: works for me - i'm in finland next week, so next weekend if possible | 22:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: is it all in haramttan repo the one on apps4meego? | 22:27 |
| Woody14619 | jelious. :( | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: not all of it, but close enough | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: i'm worried about mosqitoes.. | 22:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: can you tell me wich repos? i might try tomorrow to do it myself | 22:27 |
| nieldk | no mosquitoes in funkand | 22:27 |
| nieldk | finand | 22:27 |
| nieldk | finland aaargh | 22:28 |
| Woody14619 | stskeeps: take a yeast pill. Mosquitos won't come within a meter of you. | 22:28 |
| Woody14619 | (You'll smell like bread... but otherwise... not a bad thing.) | 22:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | nieldk: best typo ever, would be nicer as funkland | 22:28 |
| nieldk | ZogG_laptop, yeah | 22:29 |
| Woody14619 | Also works for flees and ticks. :) | 22:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: last time i was in army trainings i was awake almost all week, as doesn't matter what i used against they drank all my blood ) | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: git clone http://review.merproject.org/p/mer/release-tools.git as a start | 22:30 |
| Estel_ | well, as X-Fade haven't arrived yet, I'm dropping it here - just and *only* because it affects Council workplan for next week: | 22:31 |
| Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1237140#post1237140 | 22:31 |
| Estel_ | hi there Stskeeps, glad to hear about Mer's new machines :) | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | i don't want to derail anything here, but how do you feel about maemo.org in relation to Jolla? | 22:32 |
| rZr | Stskeeps, ZogG_laptop do u plan to be there at next obs meeting ? | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | just to collect some intelligence | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | Stskeeps, personally, I feel very o9ptimistic about it | 22:32 |
| Estel_ | if they deliver something for our target group (geeks ;) ) and would see it as approriate, I'm all for integration. | 22:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: it's good in a way of "finding new home", but on other hand it would be bad on support for maemo and harmattan devices =\ | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | mind You, that it's personal opinion, especially now. | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | right, that's one side, but community wise? | 22:33 |
| Estel_ | Stskeeps, I mean Community | 22:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: i would love it | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | I don't mind close, close collaboration with any company, if they are up to FOSS standards. I mean collaboration standards - I'm aware and sure, that they won't manage to be 100% FOSS compatible re their product. | 22:34 |
| Estel_ | Stskeeps, for now, they seem like living essence of what we liked on Nokia, during Nokia's best time. If they live up to that "promise", every FOSS copmmunity will want to go to bed with them :) | 22:35 |
| Estel_ | With Maemo being topmost. It's obviuous to everyone, I think, that trilling Community can't be focused only around legacy support. | 22:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: it's not about legacy support | 22:36 |
| Estel_ | It would be nice and natural way to swap Community to be mostly Mer oriented, too. | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | just listening, thanks for stating | 22:37 |
| *** nieldk has quit IRC | 22:37 | |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, truth is simple - You won't build anything new around Maemo. period. I mean any new device. | 22:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | maemo is not theirs and i think their interest to move on and to get best devs from maemo. think of it as CSSU devs would leave maemo as harmattan was out | 22:37 |
| Estel_ | Mer is only way for people, that doesn't see Android way as perfect example of FOSS ;) | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | ZogG_laptop, antagonising again? :/ | 22:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | Estel_: right, but i think we can still make enuf juice from maemo and harmattan. | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | Stskeeps, I would jump into Mer right now (without leaving Maemo Community at all), if not the fact that my skills are miserably unusable for Mer. | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | i.e. my skills re core system engineering are non-existent | 22:39 |
| *** nieldk has joined #maemo-meeting | 22:39 | |
| Estel_ | and I would do the same ever before Jolla, to make it clear. | 22:39 |
| Woody14619 | I think Jolla could turn into something nice. And I think there could be a potential partner there, if not a home for some of the services the community needs. I would prefer to know more about them though. | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: there should be more info, eventually, about higher levels | 22:39 |
| Woody14619 | Jumping out of fire into the frying pan sounds nice when you're on fire... | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | personally i think maemo.org should find it's own life and not be tied to a certain vendor, but that's me | 22:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: btw, i have few small questions about mer in general, would it be proper to ask here or go to #mer? | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: #mer | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | it just sounds like most sane and natural way - if we try to make debian or any desktop distro mobile-compatible, we end up re-doing work that Mer is doing | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | i.e. it's not possible to have efficient - also re power consumption - system from desktop, without re-writing or changing many parts | 22:40 |
| Estel_ | just my 2 cents. | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: and any questions always welcome | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | Eh, dreams about having device so usable as N900 is, with up-to-date hardware... Maybe jolla won't fail to provide it, and Community won't need to design it on our own, at some point :P | 22:41 |
| Estel_ | ouh, I had nice connection lag with mixed timestamps of messages :P | 22:42 |
| nieldk | to further safekeep the community, I think it makes sense to collaborate, if possible with Jolla ATM | 22:43 |
| nieldk | my best guess is, quite a few devs probably will jump on that wagon anyway | 22:45 |
| nieldk | so, a joint venture if some sort, will benefit all, in my opinion | 22:45 |
| Estel_ | just a curious question - is it still official meeting, or I've just missed meeting-end? | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | it's quite unusual to see so silent meeting during those turbulent times. | 22:46 |
| nieldk | Estel_, meeting has ended | 22:46 |
| Estel_ | blame my connection drop :) | 22:47 |
| nieldk | :) | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | nieldk: i can only say that community plays a big role, but my own personal opinion is that a community for jolla would have to be built from scratch as such | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | but at the same time, continuing on people's skills | 22:49 |
| nieldk | Stskeeps, yeah, we will see more I guess, once devices and dev platforms rises for Jolla | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | it'll be hard to build community but i think you'll be positively surprised | 22:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: btw are there any dev kits or similuar planned before end-user device is out? | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: i can't comment on that, sorry | 22:54 |
| Woody14619 | Wait. :) I think I missed something. Stskeeps, you're involved in the project? Sorry, I was on vacation the week all that came into being and I'm still catching up. | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | Woody14619: right, though my focus is on core and community | 22:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: ok, and if there would be sdk platform/ parts of it out, so we can test/start working with it before device out? for example on Pi or n950 or virtual machine or something (if you can comment on that?) | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: i have to say stay tuned, but we're not stupid :P | 22:56 |
| Woody14619 | Honestly, that's probably the most positive thing I've heard about Jolla yet then. :) | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | many of us who has been working on nemo are in jolla, too | 22:56 |
| Estel_ | I'm wondering about Jolla involvement on sending patches to Nemo... Hm :) | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | Estel_: go check changelogs, there's already @jollamobile.com contributions | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | nemo doesn't have anything to do with jolla ui look or feel though, but we're not big on NIH | 22:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: you didn't get me, i'm stupid to understand =) if it's good to have it out before or after. i think before is good idea as for devs, but it might be bad idea as busness thing | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: yeah, just saying that a sdk or similar is obligatory for app developers | 22:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | Stskeeps: i just realised that i was around maemo for a llong time and contributed to it, but my skills are poor and i want something i can get more and more exp to contribute. e.g. mohammadag that not just contribueted a lot but learned a lot to contribute more. | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | i started out as a silly person complaining about maemo stack future on a mailing list, and the scary thing happened that professionals took me seriously | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | everybody starts somewhere | 23:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm tierd of me being only reporting and suggesting and want to improve and to be involved in development of things i like | 23:01 |
| Estel_ | Stskeeps, I know about their contributions, that why I wonder what it means for Nemo as FOSS UI :) | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | Estel_: you and me both.. | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | nemo isn't going away though | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | Maybe it will help in making Nemo usable, finally, without any disrespect for people working hard on it before | 23:03 |
| Estel_ | Yea, I rather though about boost | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | I'm sure many people would like to use open UI on jolla device, instead of bundled, most-likely closed one | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | but those are pure speculations | 23:04 |
| Estel_ | at this time | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | you know what i like about this news though? i'm seeing the community actually innovate | 23:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | damn i have 666 contacts imported in contact list msg and it's friday 13th =) | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | ZogG_laptop: was nice knowing you | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 23:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | damn | 23:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | wanted to make screenshot | 23:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | but as i sent contacts to background it's gone =( | 23:09 |
| * Estel_ yaws | 23:10 | |
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