IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2011-12-15

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ieatlintdon't worry, american companies will put all of you out of business00:04
ieatlintlook at nokia even00:04
* ieatlint laughs maniacally00:04
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Corsacdoes someone know if calendar feed or organize feed can display todos items on the event screen?00:39
jesuschrist guys is the meego terminal00:39
jesuschristgone on your devices too ?00:39
arceannope, it's still there00:39
jesuschristdid you recive a dev package update recently arcean ?00:40
arceanyeah, yesterday IIRC00:40
jesuschristoh jesussss00:40
jesuschristi have to reinstall the package00:40
ieatlintwow, meta00:41
ieatlintdidn't know jesus used his own name as an explitive00:41
jesuschristnever late to learn00:41
jesuschristplus any fix yet on the "account password forgetting thing"00:42
jesuschristannoying bug ?00:42
ieatlintyou presume a lot about me00:42
arceanbug 12300:42
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots00:42
jesuschristnumbered 123 on bug tracker ?00:42
jesuschristoh its not a bug00:42
jesuschristits a feature00:42
arceanwhat :D?00:42
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jesuschristit says "fixed"00:43
arceanremembering passwords is a feature? :D00:43
jesuschristthey are closing the most weird bug and closing up feature requests00:43
arceanyes, it's fixed in... PR 1.200:43
jesuschristso i assumed without opening that they closed it00:43
jesuschristwithout fixing00:43
jesuschristdid you see arcean they closed up the request for having video calls ?00:44
arceanthey stated that 3g video calls are not going to be implemented00:45
jesuschristskype video calls00:45
arceanhmm, I have talked with Nokia Care/support/whatever00:45
arceanand they said that GTalk video calls are coming in PR 1.200:46
rm_workwasn't video-calling *in the adverts* for the phone? lol00:46
rm_workah k00:46
jesuschristthey said00:46
arceanor at least as the separate app in Nokia Store00:46
jesuschristverba volant scripta manent00:46
jesuschristany idea also on how to implement g729 codecs00:48
jesuschriston the sip client ?00:48
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jesuschristwow nokia suite wont support n900:56
jesuschristim reading the bug tracker -_-00:59
ieatlintyeah... there would be a lot to improve on with meego01:01
ieatlinti'm still saddened by its death01:01
jesuschristi found a bug happening to me too01:01
jesuschristclosed as invalid lol01:01
jesuschristwhen you install new packages or disable and renable dev mode01:02
jesuschristthe ssh server dies01:02
jesuschristuntil you reinstall the dev mode01:02
ieatlintwell, disabling dev mode obviousl will kill sshd01:02
jesuschristand its invalid01:02
jesuschristyeah i mean disabling and then reenabling it01:03
ieatlintdoesn't toggling dev mode require a reboot?01:03
Richlvit does, but if you toggle it, it doesn't rebooot automatically01:03
Richlvas it does when you first install packages01:03
ieatlintso sounds like that's the bug01:04
Richlvindeed :)01:04
Richlvi suppose toggling could start ssh server, couldn't it ? (w/o reboot)01:04
ieatlint"start sshd" in a terminal01:06
ieatlint(maybe just "ssh", not sure)01:06
jesuschristthe bug01:10
jesuschristis the device needing a reboot ?01:10
jesuschristand not asking for it ?01:10
jesuschristso actually when i do disable dev mode the ssh server still runs on the background so when i reenable the dev mode it seems it started ?01:11
jesuschristcant follow you, do you agree its a bug ? ive already talked about it to jonni01:12
jesuschristsince i know he works at nokia01:12
ieatlintwell, the sshd should stop when leaving debug mode01:13
ieatlintbut the change may only happen on reboot01:13
_MeeGoBot_Bug 384 maj, ---, ---, ext-tulasi.t.punaganti, RESO INVALID, cannot reenable developer mode after disabling it, ssh server don't want to run01:13
jesuschristthats the bug01:13
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jesuschristmr lavanya doesnt even seem to have understood the issue01:15
ieatlintthe actual bug is a reboot not being forced01:15
ieatlintbut ideally it could do things like handle the start/stop of sshd cleanly01:15
ieatlintyou can use the terminal to manually start it as said01:15
ieatlint(or stop it)01:15
jesuschristso you think everytime dev mode is being enable or disabled the device should be restarted01:16
jesuschristsince most of the times disabling dev mode and renabling it works pretty fine, ssh included, without reboot01:16
ieatlintfrankly i think it's a niche issue01:17
ieatlintwhy are you constantly enabling/disabling dev mode?01:17
jesuschristi fell unconfortable to leaving openssh enabled on the phone01:18
jesuschristplus most of the time i just need the terminal01:18
jesuschristanyway niche issue or not, its a bug01:18
jesuschristnot INVALID01:18
ieatlintwell, it may be worth knowing the ssh is only accessable via, and
ieatlintso it's not exposed via the cell modem01:20
jesuschristyeah but since i most of the times the phone at office via01:20
jesuschristplus as i said i just need the terminal, cant see why they are "bundled" together01:21
ieatlintand if the behaviour is supposed to be that it should reboot between toggling (which i'm not sure it is), then that failure case is the result of another bug, and the mode you're in is undefined01:21
ieatlintthey're budled because it's a consumer device, and terminals confused consumers01:21
jesuschristthats your explanation01:22
ieatlinti agree01:22
jesuschristanyway ill fill a bug01:22
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jesuschristif the going to close it as duplicate,, imma kidnap elop01:23
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ieatlintsounds like a plan01:23
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M4rtinKI hit an interesting issue with SSH being only accessible from local addresses :)01:26
ieatlintthat's new as of pr1.101:27
M4rtinKdevices on on our university network get public IP addresses, even on WiFi :)01:27
ieatlintit's considered a security measue to prevent people accessing your phone on open networks01:27
M4rtinKso I couldn't get in01:27
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Crnkojhey guys, i got a quesetion i was playing with a n9 running latest meego in a store and pressedtehpwoer button several times (by mistake kinda) and at the end it booted and show system failure due to too many reboots, try reflashing firmware.01:28
Crnkojis that a known problem or did i find a bug, im asking cuz im interrested in this phone but with that happening i woudl reconsider :)01:28
M4rtinKyeah - but in this concrete usecase it failed as the phone was physically situated on my laptop keyboard and I couldn't connect to it :)01:29
ieatlintCrnkoj: i've only heard of people running into that when a softwae update failed01:29
ieatlintstupid r key01:29
Crnkoji see interresting01:30
Crnkojhonestly i played 2 minutes with it01:30
Crnkojand managed to brake it01:30
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Richlvapply to nokia as a tester ? :)01:31
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ieatlintall i can say is that the phone is not generally considered unstable..01:32
ieatlintbut i'm not here to sell phones, so i'm pretty indifferent on your choice01:33
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Crnkojjust wondering01:33
Richlvadmittedly, it did mess up terminal (or devel-su, to be more specific) when i upgraded it to PR 1.1 over unstable wifi, so i had to retry several times until it finished01:33
Crnkoji really like the interface01:33
Richlvand nokia not publishing firmware images in a decent format is mighty annoying01:34
Richlvor more like, not providing an easy way to find the firmware01:34
Richlvbut that's not exactly the issue most users would face, i guess01:34
jesuschristoh cmon01:36
jesuschristyou just need01:37
jesuschristand you can get all the official images01:37
Crnkojwhats navifirm ?01:37
ieatlintyeah, in a dev channel you'll different complaints than what the average consumer faces01:37
jesuschristhow is that hard01:37
jesuschrista software Crnkoj01:37
ieatlintnavifirm is the drama topic of the day01:37
Crnkojwhere can i get it, what does it do ?01:37
jesuschristused to flash nokia devices01:37
jesuschristits used to flahs nokia devices, easily found on google01:38
Richlvjesuschrist, navifirm, the windows-only software ?01:40
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Richlvno, i don't need it...01:40
Richlvi need it's data :)01:41
jesuschristits all about windows now baby, windows phone, windows fridges01:41
Richlvwindows elop01:42
ieatlintwindows tablets too01:43
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CrnkojRichlv so where do i apply for that spot, id like to get preprelease phones for testing for free or being paid for it  :)01:44
RichlvCrnkoj, no idea, somewhere in finland, maybe =)01:45
Crnkojim some 1.5-2k km far from it than01:46
Crnkoj^ ^01:46
ieatlinti just had to beg a lot, take almost no money, and get a tattoo that says "property of nokia"01:46
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Araneljesuschrist: i reopened your bug by the way02:05
Araneljesuschrist: I think it's misunderstood.02:05
jesuschristthat wasnt me Aranel, it wasnt *my* bug02:06
Aranelthe bug, reported by you I assumed, anyway it needs a reopen =)02:06
jesuschristi already filled another -_-02:06
Aranelfor the exact same issue? :|02:07
jesuschristnot total exactly02:07
jesuschristlet me find the url02:07
_MeeGoBot_Bug 419 nor, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, NEW, ssh daemon not starting as expected02:08
jesuschristi guess they are related somehow anyway02:09
jesuschristi find the same issues in the one you opened too anyway02:09
AranelCrnkoj: fyi, I think you could *easily* (being a little sarcastic here) fix it, see: meego wiki > fixing malf state.02:10
CrnkojAranel ah i was rather sure its fixable by an end user02:10
Crnkojstill found it amusing02:10
jesuschrist(how to reopen bugs anyway ara?)02:11
Araneljesuschrist: under additional comments section, select REOPENED from Status: label and save changes.02:11
jesuschristoh right, seen that02:12
jesuschristdoes what i reported personally ever happened to you too ?02:12
jesuschristim unsure if the application installing that kills ssh, thats more a feeling02:12
Aranelyup, and X Terminal sometimes doesn't show up on mine after re-enable, so I confirm this is a valid bug.02:12
jesuschristyeah this xterminal issues02:13
jesuschristhappened to me today02:13
jesuschristjesuschrist>  guys is the meego terminal02:13
jesuschrist<jesuschrist> gone on your devices too ?02:13
jesuschristas i wrote before02:13
Aranelah you're asking for #419, nope I didn't, but I don't play with ssh everyday.02:13
jesuschristyeah anyway i can confirm about the terminal disappereaing from the application launcher02:14
Aranelafter a reboot it works again, kind of dumb to reboot whole device just to get a .desktop file created.02:14
jesuschristdidnt try to reboot, im used to reinstall the dev mode02:15
jesuschristfor the sshd issue02:15
jesuschristso i did that02:15
jesuschristand ofc rebooting prompted again for my whole account passwords02:15
AranelCrnkoj: my device got MALF state the night before I was going for a travel for 500~ kilometers, out of nothing, it just occured all in random. Believe me, it's no fun! :p02:16
Crnkojsoy ou had to reflash in fact02:16
ieatlinti've gotten it twice... on an n950 and an n9, both doing OTA updates02:17
ieatlintreflashed firmware, preserving mmc02:17
Aranelnope, mounted N9 as a usb-device to my computer, removed /var/malf, said some nasty things about nokia02:17
Araneland all gone well ^^02:17
Crnkojaha nice lol02:18
Crnkojwhats malf actually (havent heard about it in other linux systems)02:18
Aranelit's a disease.02:18
jesuschristmalf its like "device is fucked"02:19
Aranelworst. implementation. ever.02:19
jesuschristits a status02:19
Crnkojwhy woudl deleting it fix it ?02:20
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ieatlintit's a pleasant name at least02:20
ieatlintCrnkoj: the startup system checks if the file exists02:20
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ieatlintit's like a lock file02:21
Crnkojye i get that lol02:21
Aranelwell in fact I asked for it. my N9 asked for my security lock code, I couldnt remember, I killed its process then I gave it a  chmod -x, thought I was clever. Well, unfortunately I wasn't. :P02:21
AranelIt rebooted and gave me the finger.02:21
pawkyaegis again?...02:21
Aranelcan't remember exact output, but even if I disable lifeguard on R&D mode, it didnt work.02:22
Aranelbut I barely remember there was some crap about "security" so I guess it was.02:22
jesuschristwhat process you have -x02:23
jesuschristyou gave02:23
jesuschristoh :D02:23
Aranelif you kill it you can get rid of security screen02:24
Aranelfor a second..02:24
Aranelthen It spawns it again!02:24
Crnkojso wait you can mount the phone as usb on a pc and than fuck on it around? isnt that like mega unsecure lol ?02:24
Araneleverytime you kill it. it's like a endless war.02:24
Aranelyou can easily see my chain of reasoning. I wanted to put an end to that war :p02:24
pawkyAranel: sound like you need to patch the kernel...02:24
Aranelwell later I remembered my pw, it was the same with my ssh user password, I dont remember setting one on UI, but anyway..02:25
AranelCrnkoj: if you have physical access to any computer/mobile/stuff with chips on it, it's mega unsecure.02:26
Aranelpawky: open-mode is the next cool thing around ^.^ I'll give it a try.02:26
Crnkojwell ye still02:26
Crnkojif i have stuff encrypted02:26
Crnkoj^ ^02:27
Crnkojits harder as if i jsut connect and roam lol02:27
pawkyAranel: thats wha I have in mind as well :-)02:27
Aranelyup they're better approaches, but hardly you can implement them on a end-user device.02:27
pawkydo I get it right its the same kernel minus aegis?02:27
Aranelpawky: afaik yes, not minus aegis, it just validates every aegis call and it's not signed by Nokia, and open-mode activates itself on every unsigned kernel anyway.02:28
Sazpaimon_anyone else have an issue with their google account signing out02:28
Aranelaegis sits there doing nothing =)02:29
jesuschristyeah not just google account, all the accounts Sazpaimon_02:29
Sazpaimon_it affects my google account worst02:29
Sazpaimon_and it doesnt automatically sign back in02:29
Aranelto wait for your next closed-boot and  give you a sweet MALF.02:29
Sazpaimon_it stays signed out with incorrect password02:29
pawkyAranel: sounds good enough to me. And then you will also be true root?02:29
ieatlintSazpaimon_: i also have that issue02:29
Sazpaimon_and i have to manually sign back in02:30
ieatlinti swear, pr1.0 was better for gtalk02:30
Sazpaimon_anyone file a bug for it yet?02:30
Sazpaimon_its *really* annoying02:30
Aranelpawky: *afaik* yes, there's a tool called opensh with every aegis credential on it.02:30
Sazpaimon_i use gtalk for work02:30
ieatlinti don't file bugs, i just whine and bitch02:30
jesuschristsomeone said here thats gonna be fixed in 1.202:30
Aranelieatlint: that's the spirit!02:30
pawkySazpaimon: If you have 1.1 there is a bug in the authentication part..02:30
Sazpaimon_well 1.2 wont be for another few months02:30
Sazpaimon_at least02:30
Sazpaimon_I have pr1.1, yes02:30
Sazpaimon_is there any unofficial fix02:31
pawkySazpaimon: you should be able to log in though, but manually every time you boot..02:31
ieatlinti've got no inside info here, but i'm somehow doubting it'll be months before 1.2...02:31
Sazpaimon_yes, i can log in02:31
Sazpaimon_but if i lose service and log out02:31
Sazpaimon_it wont automatically log back in02:31
pawkySazpaimon: upon it all you cannot edit user name and password once you've created the account02:31
jesuschristi guess you can flash the device back to 1.0 ?02:33
pawkyyou cannot..02:33
jesuschristeven with the flasher ?02:33
pawkytried it, done it.. nope02:33
pawkyyou cannot down grade.... grrrr....02:34
jesuschristso its not a bugggg! its a featureeee02:34
pawkyvery anoying to the least..02:35
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jesuschristthe nokia dev02:37
jesuschriston the bug tracker says a hard reset fix the issue02:37
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pawkyhaven't tried it, but I doubt that will do it...02:40
_MeeGoBot_Bug 123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots02:41
pawkyok.. i only did one of those....02:42
pawkyi believe i only did root then...02:42
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jesuschristwhat you mean02:44
pawkyi reflashed my N9...02:44
jesuschristand ?02:45
jesuschristdid it fix?02:45
pawkystill persists..02:45
pawkybut i didnt reload.. (or flash?) that eMMC thingy...02:45
jesuschristdid you reuse a backup you did02:45
jesuschristor you created02:45
jesuschristthe accounts froms cratch02:45
pawkywell.. yes... later on..02:45
pawkythat as well..02:45
pawkyrecreated them a few times..02:45
jesuschristyeah i mean after you rooted02:46
pawkybut again... i wasnt after eliminating that problem then.. i was into getting my phone from an endless boot loop..02:46
pawkyisnt eMMC about flash memory storage? or is that some pre boot loader?02:47
jesuschristdont know02:47
pawkyI assume its the boot loader.. like grub or similar..02:48
jesuschristhow much is it big02:48
pawkyme neither... but, I am going to replace my phone for a new one, so I am will continue to suffer for a few days to come... ;-)02:48
pawkyif its the boot loader it must be as tiny as hell...02:49
pawkyif hell can be tiny that is..02:49
jesuschristgoing to get a warranty replaced n9?02:49
pawkywell.. mine got a hardware issue...02:49
pawkyso yes..02:49
jesuschristwhat hardware issue02:50
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pawkywell.. the guys who knows in here (the Nokia guys) are a bit secret about it.... ;-)02:50
jesuschristwhy you went to the nokia store in the first place02:51
pawkythey might only confirm or deny if the problem exists...02:51
jesuschristbecause of the infinite boot loop02:51
pawkymine has already been one round to the repair shop, but in case of replacing it then, they just reflashe it with the new 1.1.... so on top of its problem I now also have to log in several e-mail accounts 10-30 times a day...02:51
pawkya BIT annoing I will admit..02:52
pawkywhen I got it back... reflashed an all... I entered all my e-mail credentials, contacts etc... and 10 minutes later I turned the unit into developer mode..02:52
pawkyhalfway through the install... something went wrong f.. ing up dnsmasq.. (certainly just the hardware problem kicking in and rebooting)02:53
pawkyit left the unit in a bad state only rebooting it constantly.. and on these lovely units you cannot even rip out the battery to make it stop....02:53
pawkyso... to be able to at least reset the phone before returning it, I had to get into it somehow.... Enter stage left...  a firmware reflash...02:54
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pawkybut i couldnt reflash it with the old 1.0 legally obtained.... so I had to hunt for the 1.1 which I in the end found at Nokia02:55
pawkyNow I at least can erase it before returning it... :-)02:56
jesuschristcouldnt you just wait for the battery to die02:56
pawkywell.. it will still have all the e-mails etc on it.. right?02:56
pawkyso.. nope it was never an option...02:56
jesuschristi see02:56
jesuschristhope you good luck with the next one02:57
pawkyand then djszapi started to harass me about doing illegal things yada yada...02:57
jesuschristsjszapi ?02:57
pawkyyeah... there is a risk it might come from the same batch...  maybe its just a one off...02:57
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pawkywell.. you can read the back logs... ;-)02:57
pawkyhe got banned in the end.02:58
jesuschristuh ok02:58
pawkyone could easily say I shouted out your nick names a few times while discussing the matter..02:59
jesuschristcell phones drive the beast inside us03:00
pawkyone might say so, yes... long live the N900...03:01
pawkyIf i where you i would go for that open... firmware while having a go at reflashing your unit anyway...03:02
jesuschristim not following you03:03
jesuschristopen firmware?03:03
pawkythe one Aranel was speaking about...03:03
merlin1991I guess he means open mode kernel03:04
pawkythat one :-)03:04
pawkybut you probably void your warranty.. yada, yada, yada when doing so...  ;-)03:04
jesuschristtheres already a kernel for the n9 ?03:04
jesuschrista not signed03:05
jesuschristcool who got the source03:05
pawkyi would say..... yes..03:05
merlin1991afaik it's in the repos by now too (the source)03:05
jesuschristi head the give the source by dvd via mail lol03:06
Aranelif there's one thing better than open-mode kernel03:06
pawkywell.. ehh.. its an open MODE kernel..03:06
Aranelit's power-kernel!03:06
jesuschristheard they give03:06
Aranelhope there'll be one for N9.03:06
pawkyok.. i was just to say, i am not sure about open source..03:06
pawkybut maybe we are the lucky ones :-)03:06
pawkyAranel:wasn't the link pointing to an N9 version?03:07
jesuschristyeah i read n9 on the link03:07
Aranelyou mean that link you gave it just about a second ago? yes it does.03:07
pawkyyes.. that split of a second fast link :-)03:07
jesuschristwowow, meaning flash from the n900 could be installed there03:07
Aranelit's open-mode kernel, I was dreaming of power-kernel, just like back in the n900 days.03:07
pawkydie uberfast link.. :-D03:08
merlin1991Aranel: dunno pk broke reboots for me03:08
pawkywell.. i am happy enough with people fighting unnecessary DRM stuff..03:08
merlin1991so I didn't like it :D03:08
* Aranel tries to troll ppl around here by "back in old days" stuff, nobody bites :|03:08
pawkyhaven't tried it myself..03:08
merlin1991mandatory for injection enabled wireless driver :/03:09
jesuschristim too afraid to unwarrant ma 500 euro phone03:09
jesuschristill wait for you rich kids03:09
pawkycome on be a sport... :-)03:09
pawkyits good fun, and you learn a lot.. if not about the N9, for sure about yourself.. ;-)03:09
merlin1991jesuschrist: I tried (not one of the rich kids though) and it didn't even boot :D03:10
Aranelmerlin1991: but it gave you a lot of console output on boot, which looks all geeky and stuff, doesnt it? :p03:10
merlin1991Aranel: that was the framebuffer kernel :D03:10
merlin1991also R&D mode did it too03:10
pawkymerlin1991: are you saying the firmware on the link is kind of buggy?03:10
jesuschristpawky : installing kernels as a self-consciousness path ?03:10
Aranelit outputs lot of words on boot. case closed. it's awesome.03:10
merlin1991pawky: I'm saying on my device nolo didn't even boot that kernel03:11
merlin1991I seems to work on some peoples n9 and on a bunch of n950s, but for me it just doesn't get passt nolo03:11
merlin1991(if we still call it nolo, dunno the technical term for it)03:12
Aranelit's not -yet- stable, or at least announced as stable, so you know the odds.03:12
merlin1991Aranel: the odds are my nolo doesn't allow unsinged kernels03:12
jesuschristwell have to install it since pr 1.203:12
jesuschristis the last firmware03:12
jesuschristfrom nokiasoft03:12
pawkyjesuschrist: its a religion in itself ;-)03:12
jesuschristso, we will have to install it someday03:13
merlin1991pr 1.2? is that due next year?03:13
Araneljesuschrist: according to konttori's blog -nokia employee- it's not.03:13
jesuschristsome big dev03:13
jesuschriston the bug tracker03:13
jesuschristsaid so03:13
infobotmerlin1991 meant: pr 1.2? isn't that due next year?03:13
Araneld'oh. got a link on it?03:13
jesuschristill find it Aranel03:13
pawkyi do believe though.. your warrant will magically return once you put the original firmware back :-)03:13
pawkyTo my knowledge its only warranty void as long as you run another kernel..03:14
merlin1991I'm pretty sure there is some partition that keeps track of flashes, just like on the n90003:14
pawkyI dont think that matters...03:14
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pawkyif Nokia cannot prove the other kernel actually might destroy your phone and has done so..03:14
Aranelpawky: *afaik* -i like this word, it keeps you okay even if you spill out bs, anyway, back to topic..- they have their way to know if you void your warranty by kernel replacement.03:15
pawkyis a warranty void if you install linux on a computer you've bought with Windows?03:15
pawkyespecially if you reinstall it again with windows?03:15
jesuschristAranel :
_MeeGoBot_Bug 96 maj, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, ASSI, [cloned] x-org server compiled to disable double buffering in x1103:15
jesuschristim refering to03:15
merlin1991pawky: there's even waranty "void" with some computers if you open it up03:15
pawkyi believe that will be country dependent then..03:16
pawkyApple tried that one.. but didnt succeed..03:16
jesuschristWhen a PR release goes public, the next PR release is already starting to enter03:16
jesuschristthe (months long) bugfixes-only phase.  PR1.1 was just released and I think03:16
jesuschristPR1.2 is already bug-fixes only. So probably the earliest this could actually03:16
jesuschristcome would be PR1.3, but PR1.2 may be the last release that adds new features03:16
jesuschristin addition to bug fixes.  After that it's likely critical-bug-fixes-only.03:16
Araneljesuschrist: you mean comment #12? he says "Even if it would" not "it is" certainty.03:16
pawkyIn sweden Nokia would have a hard time trying to express a warranty void ...03:16
jesuschristcomment 1003:16
pawkythen again.. they can say whatever until you take it to court..03:16
jesuschristsorry for the paste03:17
jesuschristcomment 10 Aranel03:17
jesuschristPR1.2 may be the last release that adds new features03:17
jesuschristin addition to bug fixes.  After that it's likely critical-bug-fixes-only.03:17
jesuschristta daaaaa03:17
pawkynot really sure what you have answered there...03:18
pawkybut its a bit sad to hear it has a limited developing cycle..03:18
jesuschristim pasting03:18
jesuschristfrom the bug03:18
jesuschristtracker pawky03:18
jesuschristnot my words03:18
jesuschristso 1.2 most likely last update03:19
jesuschristthen open/power/uber kernel is the only way03:19
jesuschristmost likely03:19
Aranelwell I don't know about details but I think there'll be a PR1.3 -referring to that blog- , but I also think that It won't bring anything important/useful -referring to that comment-03:19
pawkyis the full kernel source out?03:20
jesuschristthey have to release it03:20
Araneland I hate when I have to refer to a blog and a bugzilla to know if a platform will get updates or not. :|03:20
jesuschristthey must release03:20
jesuschristsince its gpl03:20
jesuschristmust, or class actions03:21
jesuschristthe licence is gpl03:21
luke-jryou can't class-action a GPL violation03:21
luke-jronly the copyright holder can sue03:21
pawkywell that doesnt necessarily mean any property  modules..03:21
jesuschristbut they have to release the source luke-jr03:21
luke-jralso, they're in violation if they didn't ALREADY include an offer to all N9 customers03:21
jesuschristthey also provided and email for source requests03:22
luke-jrjesuschrist: yes, but the customers cannot sue for it03:22
jesuschristwho should then03:22
luke-jrif they provided a means to request it, then they're in compliance03:22
pawkyare you sure they cannot?03:22
luke-jrthere is no explicit time limit03:22
luke-jrjesuschrist: the copyright holder over whatever is violated03:22
ieatlintluke-jr is correct03:22
ieatlintonly the person who owns the copyright to the code is legally the wronged party, not the end user03:23
jesuschristi guess the linux foundation then... ?03:23
pawkywell.. if the kernel is out, the source should be obtainable as well.. if being GPL...03:23
Aranelluke-jr: if I set time limit to 100 years and provide an e-mail as, can I use all GPL'd stuff on my project, closed like hell?03:23
luke-jrjesuschrist: unlikely. if we're talking about the Linux kernel, there are hundreds of copyright holders03:23
luke-jrpawky: yes, but they can take their time within reason03:23
luke-jrAranel: I'm sure in practice a court would interpret a reasonable time limit03:23
pawkyright.. a 100 years, might be going a tad to far...03:23
pawkybut.. yeah like 6 months might be ok..03:23
pawkyfor whatever reason ..03:24
luke-jrbut "omg it's been weeks" probably won't fly03:24
ieatlintas i understand the source is already out03:24
luke-jrieatlint: all of it?03:24
ieatlintand there's a website where you can order a dvd of it03:24
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ieatlintluke-jr: not sure03:24
luke-jrwtf? why not a CD?03:24
ieatlinttoo big?03:24
jesuschristcd ?03:24
luke-jrthe kernel⁇?03:25
luke-jrkernels are tiny03:25
ieatlintthere's a lot more than just the kernel03:25
jesuschristah right, you can get a dvd03:25
luke-jrthe rest is probably closed :P03:25
jesuschristif you send them an email03:25
ieatlinteh, it's got a gnu base03:25
pawkya huuuuuge I will sue your ass EULA probably .. ;-)03:25
jesuschristyou sure about that thing luke =03:25
luke-jrieatlint: it does? N900 didn't03:26
pawkyeatlint: thats what I am trying to say..03:26
luke-jrjesuschrist: what thing?03:26
jesuschristthat we cant sue them if they refuse to us03:26
jesuschristthe source code03:26
pawkywell.. ill bet they've closed things up a bit nowadays when shaking hands with Microsoft..03:26
AranelI removed my dvd-rw long time ago, offering the same thing to Nokia, it feels me all 2000-era.03:26
luke-jrjesuschrist: unless you hold copyright on a relevant part of Linux03:26
pawkyotherwise we would still be able to gain full root on the device..03:26
jesuschristi thought you couldnt use copyright and gpl in the same sentence03:27
luke-jrjesuschrist: or represent someone who does03:27
ieatlintluke-jr: thought it did, but i may be wrong03:27
luke-jrjesuschrist: GPL is a copyright license.03:27
jesuschristbut im quite ignorante on those legal facts03:27
pawkyWhen will retro come to computers?.. how about 360 floppies :-)03:27
pawkythats funny, mr jesus christ being ignorant :-)03:27
luke-jrieatlint: N900 used BusyBox03:28
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Aranelwell at least they didnt offer it as punch cards, that would be pita03:28
ieatlinthmmm, it's definitely busybox here too, but i thought it was glib03:28
luke-jrpawky: funnier is that he's banned from #Jesus03:28
ieatlintperhaps not though03:28
luke-jrieatlint: glib is not GNU base03:28
pawkyahh those good old punche cards! :-d03:28
ieatlinterr, glibc03:28
pawkyI wonder how many cards are needed to back up a 1 terrabyte disk..03:28
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merlin1991I wonder if it would be a valid bug report to report not being able to load unsinged kernel03:29
luke-jrI have 1 patch in the Linux kernel… but it's too minor to claim copyright over.03:29
jesuschristim not banned on #jesus03:29
jesuschristi just entered03:29
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jesuschristbut i guess they banned me now03:29
luke-jroh, they used to have a ban on *jesus*03:29
ieatlintdon't get me wrong, if it doesn't have gnu, i'm happy03:29
* ieatlint isn't a big gnu fan03:29
Aranelpawky: it would build a road to moon, twice. *randomly spitting out nonsense comparisons, since there's no way to disprove*03:29
jesuschristanyway have a nice night gentlemen03:29
jesuschristgood night03:30
luke-jrmerlin1991: strictly speaking, their source code must include crypto keys that are part of the kernel binary <.<03:30
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pawkymaybe you should try #christ instead? :-)03:30
luke-jrmerlin1991: as well as any used to create a signature for it03:30
pawkyohh. damn.. hope he didn't get offended :-(03:30
Aranelmerlin1991: it would be valid, since it works on other devices and open-mode is offered by Nokia themselves.03:30
merlin1991Aranel: where?03:31
pawkyit is? :-)03:31
* Aranel of course it my POV, they can close it as RESO INVALID, Harmattan Bugs is a scary place.03:31
Aranelwhen you boot an unsigned kernel, your device itself moves to open-mode03:31
pawkyhow can one tell?03:32
Aranelso it's not offered by the unsigned kernel, it's already built-in on your device.03:32
pawkymaybe I put in an unsigned kernel :-)03:32
pawkyi got it from Nokia03:32
* Aranel Source(s): I read it somewhere, don't remember where. :p03:32
merlin1991my trouble is that I throw an unsinged kernel @ n9 and it decides todo nothin03:32
merlin1991not even boot03:32
Mekand it is an N9 with PR1.1? (or do I misremember PR1.1 being what has the fixed NOLO to make this possible)03:33
merlin1991yep it is03:33
Aranelpawky: if you got it from Nokia it's not unsigned.03:33
Aranelpawky: i think you meant navifirm firmwares, they're signed by Nokia.03:34
merlin1991Mek: it shows 1.1 in the about product thingy an I remember updating to 1.1 so yea I'd say it's 1.103:34
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Aranelpawky: if you try to boot an unsigned kernel it will throw a way scaaary notice about warranty void.03:35
merlin1991Aranel: it throws nothing for me03:35
merlin1991only charging icon if I keep usb cable in too long :P03:35
pawkyAranel:  my eyes tend to filter these things out...03:36
Aranelmerlin1991: I wonder why it doesn't work for you. doesn't flasher  give any output on your host PC?03:36
merlin1991flasher has the balbla warranty only tech people blabla, then sending kernel image, then success03:36
merlin1991and after that it returns and nothing else happens03:36
Aranelwell in a normal story, which ends with a happy ending, it would boot your device03:37
Araneland It would boot with a scary notice, then right in to the UI and stuff03:37
merlin1991no hollywood in europe I guess03:37
Aranelyou could see if it boots on normal or open mode by.. *dunno exact command, maybe its wrong* accli -L or something like that.03:38
Aranelthat's weird. you should call nokia care and tell them you want to boot an unsigned kernel on your Harmattan device.03:38
Araneland later you should explain them what a kernel is.03:38
merlin1991great fun03:39
Aranel*not the same applies for every country ofc, it applies to mine*03:39
merlin1991only that this is a developer device and I can't give care anything :/03:39
merlin1991also it's accli -I and the mode is "normal"03:39
Aranelhow about getting your hands dirty03:40
Araneland flashing the kernel03:40
Aranelinstead of loading it?03:40
Aranel*then bricking your devices, losing everything, and swearing here!*03:40
merlin1991actually only problem is I don't have the original zimage to recover in case of what you mentioned03:40
Aranelwell I would throw a chuck norris joke but I'm tired of it :|03:41
merlin1991roundhouse kicking the average mobile device didn't proove helpfull so far03:42
Araneldunno, maybe you should ask it later to javispedro, he knows much more than me.03:42
merlin1991oh I've been pondering him already, he does not have the slightest idea what I could try03:42
* merlin1991 wants a white n903:43
Aranel:| so you have to wait for open-mode to get a stable release -if it ever happens-03:43
Aranelor backup & flash the open kernel.03:43
merlin1991great idea03:43
merlin1991tbh I'd rather hack my n900 instead of fighting against aegis03:44
pawkymerlin1991:gives a spray can.... white..03:44
merlin1991but the swipe ui compared with the screen is so awesome03:44
AranelI wouldn't report it to bugzilla since Nokia really cares about those reports a lot, they can't live anymore when a user suffers.03:44
merlin1991pawky: doesn't make it 64gb though03:44
pawkymerlin1991:gives a 46GB USB key...03:45
merlin1991and now you give me the openmode kernel that has usb-host mode and runs on my device too?03:45
merlin1991otherwise your argument is invalid :D03:45
pawkymerlin:will the white N9 have it ?03:46
merlin1991nfc, but I could need a backup phone when I start trying to brick my current device03:46
Aranelwell maybe I wouldnt want that much to move into open-kernel if normal kernel wasn't that suspicious over everything. (see bug 376)03:46
_MeeGoBot_Bug enh, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, ASSI, Manual Security Lock03:46
* merlin1991 headdesks reading uni assignment03:52
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: What is the youngs modulus of the desk, and at what velocity did your skull impact it?03:54
pawkycount reply delay as meter/sec...03:55
merlin1991SpeedEvil: in order for it to properly display my dislike for the assignment it would be a youngs modulus of 1220 GPa and a speed of about 100m/s03:56
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Aranelis QML CheckBox Element now deprecated, why it doesn't show up on my app :<04:14
* Aranel my fault, it's 4am here, just ignore it.04:15
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merlin1991SpeedEvil: you might be happy to hear that I finnished that assignment now without actually hurting myself ;)05:51
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* DocScrutinizer searches for his BOFH hat07:42
* dm8tbr dons his tinfoil hat07:42
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* DocScrutinizer is amazed he still sees all new (to him) english vacabulary every other day07:44
DocScrutinizerknew one day it would fire back to ready byte mag while english lessons in school ;-D07:45
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: knew one day it would fire back to read byte mag while english lessons in school ;-D07:45
dm8tbrduring :-þ07:46
DocScrutinizerthough I couldn't tell why nit "while" - isn't language and they way it's formed in your brain something pretty amazing?07:47
dm8tbrand honestly, at least I got my boost of english when I started giving a flying f.unk about the lessons and just did stuff for fun (like watching all movies non-dubbed)07:47
DocScrutinizerwhile seems a completely unrelated term here. Coffe didn't kick in yet07:48
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dm8tbrgermany sucks for dubbing all movies07:49
DocScrutinizerI hardly can follow lectures in English. Movies usually are way to tedious07:50
villagerI think "while" was wrong because it's a conjuntion, so it would require adding a verb to the sentence, like "while attending english lessons"07:50
villager(just wanted to see if I would be able to figure out why)07:50
DocScrutinizersounds about ridht07:51
DocScrutinizeralso: while lssons at school gave me the opportunity to read byte mag, they didn't help for learning to understand spoken English07:52
dm8tbrthat's where the movies would come in :)07:53
* dm8tbr likes that finland generally doesn't dub stuff07:53
DocScrutinizerEnglish movies with English subtitles, my dream. Hard to find though07:54
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: teh intarwebz deliver ;)07:54
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: actually quite easy, any proper english cinema in austria/germany does it that way :D07:54
dm8tbrmerlin1991: no, they do OmU with the 'U' in german07:55
dm8tbrOrginalton mit Untertiteln07:55
merlin1991ah :D07:55
DocScrutinizerOriginal mit Untertitel07:55
merlin1991well I knew at least 3 here in vienna where you get original with english subs07:56
dm8tbrah, that's nice07:56
* dm8tbr knows a cinema in frankfurt where they show original versions, no sub-titles07:56
dm8tbrthen again frankfurt used to be occupied by both US and UK military for quite long, that could have something to do with it ;)07:57
DocScrutinizernow with digital cinema things should change quite a bit07:58
dm8tbrwhich reminds me that my projector broke and I need to buy me a new one07:59
DocScrutinizerthe times where I could service Bauer B9 35mm projectors are definitely ending07:59
* SpeedEvil wishes he could get some broken projectors.08:00
DocScrutinizerto do what?08:01
SpeedEvilUnbreak them.08:01
DocScrutinizerthose things frequently weigh >200kg for the mere projector incl lamp house08:01
DocScrutinizerthe 1600W transformer for the xenon bulb another felt 10.000 kg08:02
SpeedEvilNot themovie sort. :)08:02
dm8tbrSpeedEvil: you wouldn't want mine, suddenly started freezing the picture and going black. opened it, forced lamp on etc, no joy. seems some IC bit the dust, or the DLP itself. :(08:10
SpeedEvilI have way too muchnonfunctional crap in reality. :)08:11
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: you got some bot nicked the-boss invited?08:14
DocScrutinizerI guess you did not, so I banned it yesterday08:15
DocScrutinizerfor viaolating at least 3 of the general freenode rules about bots08:16
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I don't see any reason for it being here. Also it pisses me off that it uses # as the trigger-char08:17
merlin1991didn't someone claim it's his bot?08:17
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: out of morbid security, where are those rules?08:17
* merlin1991 darkly remembers something08:17
Stskeepser, curiousity08:18
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: search chanlogs for rule #1, yesterday08:18
dm8tbron the freenode webpages IIRC, the ones that get seldomly ever read08:18
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: IRC logs don't count08:18
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i mean actual, official rules on a webpage08:18
DocScrutinizergo find them yourselves, my info on that has no origin tag in my mind08:18
Stskeepsbecause i can't find them after glancing through policies08:19
DocScrutinizerA lot I learned from TimRiker08:19
infobotDocScrutinizer: aw, gee08:19
merlin1991Actually apart from rules about cloaks and FAQ entries about beeing considered a ddos bot there are no hard rules about bots in the freenode policies08:24
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DocScrutinizerrules as gathered by me over time: get permission, show you're a bot, show owner/contact for service (when misbehaves), don't log (and publish) chan without public notice in chan, do not interfere with other bots, do not spam chan with crap08:40
Stskeepsyes, that's all sane, but it doesn't seem to be actual freenode policies08:40
DocScrutinizermost of it actually is08:40
DocScrutinizerone way or another08:41
Stskeeps.. but not documented or published anywhere08:41
DocScrutinizerhmm, #freenode has no chanlog, that's right08:41
DocScrutinizerthough there are actually a lot of helptext pages not exactly under that nevertheless have instructive material about freenode policies and operation modes08:42
DocScrutinizerif in doubt: /join #freenode, ask08:43
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DocScrutinizeror - if you wanna have a "fun" time (though probably rather educational experiance) - go #freenode and ping staff about "this evil chanop on #randomchan kickbanned my bot, what can I do??? PLZ HLP!"09:04
* DocScrutinizer nods and grunts09:05
Stskeepsall i'm saying is that the rules you're hearing (except maybe for log one) doesn't seem to be actually officially published anywhere on and hence not official network policy09:07
Stskeepsfrom the MOTD:09:07
Stskeeps[07:17] -!- - By connecting to freenode you indicate that you have read09:07
Stskeeps[07:17] -!- - and agree to adhere to our policies and procedures as per09:07
Stskeeps[07:17] -!- - the website (
DocScrutinizerwell, staff on #freenode telling me stuff for me is "official" enough09:08
Stskeepsso, they could have told you that you can't wear pants in an IRC channel, but it doesn't make it official policy09:08
Stskeepsbut it's good to know who i can ask to tell you that the world isn't round :)09:09
w00ti vote we add that to #harmattan's rules09:09
DocScrutinizerhmm, then rule #1 applies: I'm (co-)chan owner :-D09:09
w00t/topic A place for pantsless harmattan device and development discussions | ...09:09
DocScrutinizerthe rule of common sense in all chan administered by me: bots misbehaving in any way, not showing admininstartive contact, and not even being invited, are an instatnt ban09:11
DocScrutinizernow THIS IS official09:11
Stskeepsah, fascist rule, i see09:11
DocScrutinizeryeah, bots are inferior class of life09:12
infobotDocScrutinizer: :)09:12
Stskeepsisn't that racist?09:12
DocScrutinizerwasn't fascism kinda racistic?09:13
DocScrutinizerthough I admit I apply almost same rules to all users, not only bots ;-P09:14
DocScrutinizerso I'm just evil, not fascist09:14
dm8tbrhmm still no godwin?09:16
Stskeepsdm8tbr: DocScrutinizer's german as far as i remember, so it's not appropiate to invoke godwin, i guess :P09:16
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: ponder what D in dm8tbr might mean09:17
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: yes, i know09:17
DocScrutinizeris M the licence?09:17
DocScrutinizerlike "M: up to 500W TX"09:18
DocScrutinizerFYI: anf follow all link you find in the pages linked by google ( **bot)09:21
DocScrutinizershould yield a bit about bot policies common sense09:22
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: sort of, yes. DM is only issued to class A nowadays, and that's 750W+1dB(measurement inaccuracy) and all amateur radio bands.09:31
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: a bit of implicit policies shining through in first 2 of
Stskeepsi think we have something more productive to do than finding obscure references in blog posts. it should be possible to find the location of the antichrist by decoding the first letter of each freenode blog post09:37
DocScrutinizer>>We, freenode staff, are also surprised, not to mention rather upset, that this company has chosen to completely ignore our policies[...]<<09:37
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: well, you asked for it, you get it09:38
w00tthat's talking about logging, not bots09:38
w00tand that *is* explicitly mentioned09:38
DocScrutinizerthese 2 posts show me you need to read more carefully, and understand what the whole thing actually is about09:39
DocScrutinizerlogging is done by..? rrrright: bots09:39
Stskeepsor irc clients09:39
w00tI log09:39
w00tI'm not a bot09:39
Stskeepsi used to write ircds, i'm very well aware of it, my point is that there's no official policy, in MOTD or in the policies page09:40
Stskeepssimple as that09:40
Stskeepsand now i'm done wasting my time, back to work09:40
DocScrutinizerand this is almost triggering my autoresponder grepping for terms about legalese09:40
* DocScrutinizer too back to work09:41
Stskeepsi could mention aegis too if that gets your blood pressure up09:41
RST38hMoorning gentlemen09:41
DocScrutinizerI promised to not bitch about aegis anymore, since we got "official" openmode kernel09:41
RST38hHey Stskeeps, Doc09:42
DocScrutinizerpromised to try not to...09:42
DocScrutinizerhi RST38h09:42
SpeedEvilIf you go withthe openmode kernel does the existing sw work?09:42
RST38hDoc: Are you trying to classify w00t as a bot? =)09:42
DocScrutinizernah :-D09:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: $Nokia_at_large claims it should09:43
* SpeedEvil prefers to believe external sources.09:43
DocScrutinizerI.E. if something doesn't work in openmode, then that's considered a bug09:44
DocScrutinizerthat's what I got about Nokia's official notion regarding that09:44
RST38hAnd what is Nokia's official policy of fixing Maemo6 bugs? =)09:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: any proper reports highly appreciated anyway09:46
SpeedEvilAnd yes.09:46
SpeedEvilHowever, I'm involved in insulating my bedroom, and getting various bits of the outbuildings watertight before winter, so have no time for fun stuff. :/09:46
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DocScrutinizerDANG, I was stupid enough to read a bit more in yesterday's chanlog. Mentioning aegis doesn't change my blood pressure. The BS dj spreads about images downloaded form an official Nokia fileserver via navifirm were NDA'd and thus illegal to use... WOOOAAAHH >:-(10:02
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RST38hDoc: Just ignore him, will you?10:04
RST38hDoes he still work for Nokia, anyway?10:04
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DocScrutinizeralready closed the chanlog window, definitely10:04
DocScrutinizerRST38h: he never exactly did10:04
DocScrutinizerhe works for a subcontractor that does (od did) some aegis development for Nokia10:05
DocScrutinizer(or *10:05
RST38hBut, I mean, is he still a subcontractor?10:05
DocScrutinizerdunno. Does it matter?10:06
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gabriel9|workwhat is ilegal_10:11
gabriel9|workimg from Nokia server? How is that?10:11
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gabriel9|workDocScrutinizer: can you send me a link of that channellog?10:16
dm8tbrI think there is a misconception on the meaning of the word 'illegal'10:19
RST38hyes, there definitely is10:19
RST38hat least for one guy, there is10:19
gabriel9|worki used Nokia img and now i did something ilegal10:21
gabriel9|workand i pay for the device10:21
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mprhow can I display a one-symbol status in the bouncing clock lock screen from my app similar to what arriving mail etc. does?10:31
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RST38hmpr: there is no official way afaik10:41
mpris there an unofficial one?10:42
RST38hmpr: there is undocumented API for adding notifications to the home screen, that has been largely documented by interested parties now10:42
RST38hit involves MTF10:42
mprwhat do you mean by home screen, the one where you can actually add events through MEventFeed or the black one?10:43
MohammadAGyay, finally got lists10:48
MohammadAGmpr, RST38h I think both events are built into the lock screen10:49
MohammadAGaka when there's an incoming call the lock screen reads the number + name and bounces10:49
MohammadAGbut it's not related to the phone app10:49
MohammadAGsame goes for alarm10:49
MohammadAGthis makes perfect sense in why both calls and alarms have to be dismissed after swiping10:50
mprhow does it read that information?10:50
MohammadAGone suggestion to make this work for other stuff is LD_PRELOAD10:50
mprbut it's not possible to make it somehow read something else except information from built-in apps?10:50
MohammadAGdue to the (I think) retarded implementation, no10:51
MohammadAGwithout LD_PRELOAD anyway10:51
mprnot sure if I want to do a hack at that level for an app that would be distributed to others :)10:51
MohammadAGthe hack could become a library for other devs to hook onto10:52
DocScrutinizerone way *might* be to give the lockscreen app a patched fontset (it uses a very specific one I guess) and change the space, 1 and 2 chars to sth that has a leading icon displaying your state/notification left to the first digit of time10:53
DocScrutinizerduh, I can't believe I'm suggesting such terrible crap10:53
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mprcan you give some pointers on how I'd proceed with this if I'd actually attempt it10:55
mprfor starters where can I find the lock screen code?10:55
MohammadAGit's a systemui plugin that's closed source11:00
mprargh :)11:00
mpris there anyone in nokia here who'd have access to the guys responsible for it?11:01
MohammadAGwe don't support mafia operations :P11:05
mpr3rd party app development is mafia?11:05
MohammadAGoh, thought you wanted to kill someone for the retarded implementation :P11:05
mprno, I just want to get a status indication to the lock screen in whatever way is easiest :)11:06
mprseems that the options right now are to either talk to nokia and get a change to the lock screen or the source released, or some really low-level hackery by groping in the dark11:07
MohammadAGlaptop's kinda burning11:07
MohammadAGfirst isn't going to happen11:08
MohammadAGor second11:08
mprwhy not11:08
mpryou'd think that the meego people there would be doing whatever they can to get 3rd party development going11:09
dm8tbrthere are no meego people left11:16
dm8tbronly harmattan11:16
mpryes, well, whatever the name, there'll be no people left at all in that division unless they get app development going from the outside :)11:17
mprand this is very specifically an issue in an nokia-internal harmattan component11:18
MohammadAGmpr, because the bug report was already closed afaik11:19
mprand a bit of googling shows that I'm not the only one who has this issue11:19
luke-jrisn't Nokia 100% behind Windows now?11:19
MohammadAGI can't remember the number11:19
mprwell then they should reconsider11:19
MohammadAGwhy's that?11:19
MohammadAGfrom a business standpoint11:19
luke-jrI kinda figured they only did N9 because of some contractual obligation11:20
mprwell sure, most of nokia may not see any future in harmattan, but I'd imagine that the people working on it do11:20
petterii thought they continue the development as next billion platform11:21
luke-jrI'm just surprised to hear Nokia still has ANYONE working on it :P11:21
petteriwith different focus of cource11:21
mprwell they have quite a lot of people, it's symbian that's being shut down11:22
petteriyes and microsoft is doing the wp7 development, so nokia is bacially linux only dev company :)11:22
decibytespeaking of: "Danish Bank Believes Nokia Will Sell To Microsoft" <>11:22
mprthey've even announced other linux platforms for lower-end phones etc. that will no doubt use a lot of the stuff that has been developed for harmattan11:22
SpeedEvilThere was a typo - it wasn't the next 1000000000 - someone had a sticky key.11:22
luke-jrwell, the whole thing that made Maemo any good was that it *wasn't* a phone platform11:23
mprI quite like my n9, I just have an annoying problem with some functionality not being exposed to outside devs11:24
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mpryou can see that the guys who've worked on it have hoped for the platform to attract devs, there's been a lot of attention paid to detail11:32
mprso it's quite annoying to then hit some minor problem and then get told that there's no way to get that fixed :)11:33
MohammadAGfucking uni11:38
MohammadAGI'm actually making progress with sociality11:38
mprthat always-visible mail status thing is really useful, you can just glance at your phone to see if there's anything that needs checking, so even though it might seem an irrelevant thing it actually makes the user experience way better11:38
decibytempr: i think you're preaching to the choir :)11:39
deramI'd like to see same type of indicator for battery level under 20%11:40
mprwell I don't have access to the people that need the preaching, I'm hoping that someone here does11:40
decibytederam: an indication when it's in power save mode would be great (whether it's at 20% or something else).11:41
deramdecibyte: that would be sufficient, though I think it should be different, by not wanting it to really enter powersave if possible11:42
deramso powersave+10% could be usable11:42
decibytederam: you've got a point there.11:42
decibytewell... the indicator just needs a HUGE control panel for tweaking :)11:43
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decibytealso an option to set the color of the indicator to red instead of white. i know some would love that.11:44
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deramyes, and separate brightnes setting for indicator.11:45
deramI have the base brightness at minimum and the indicator could be even dimmer11:45
griNokia Developer Projects is back! if someone is interested :D11:47
SpeedEvilgri: What does it do?11:47
decibytebtw, a friend of mine asked me if it would be possible to make the lock screen clock fade out/in when changing position, instead of the hard no-transition it does now. is that possible or is there some sort of hardware limitation in the low power display mode?11:47
decibyte(clock AND icons)11:47
griSpeedEvil: It's the project site like maemo garage that was down for ~2 weeks now11:47
SpeedEvilFade in and out will use power when fading in and out11:48
griSpeedEvil: I just need it for bug tracking11:48
SpeedEvilAs the CPU has to be actuve (say) 20 times to dim, and 20 times to bridhten11:48
SpeedEvilnot simply once to rewrite the diplay11:48
decibyteSpeedEvil: which will make a negative impact on battery life one would be able to notice?11:49
decibyteSpeedEvil: okay. but it _is_ possible if you don't care about battery? no hardware limitations?11:52
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SpeedEvilOf course.11:54
SpeedEvilThe issue is again - it's a closed component.11:55
decibytecool. thanks. i'll tell him to hack it himself then :)11:55
SpeedEvilClosed, and aegis.11:55
SpeedEvilThough the open kernel may be an option, I'm unsure.11:55
SpeedEvilI've yet to see anyone report if the normal software stack works with that.11:56
decibyteit's more of a theoretical thing for him (and me). it's just that the hard transition attracts your attention.11:57
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SpeedEvilI agree.12:00
tommagri, still say "Go get a coffee and by the time you are back we should be online again."12:04
tommaaah ok now works12:04
gritomma: yeah, it worked, then the coffee break warning came then it worked again12:04
griseems like this only shows up sometimes12:05
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Arkenoihmm, seems that merging contacts stopped working completely on my phone :-/13:14
Arkenoiat least if one of mergees is online service contact13:14
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Arkenoii wonder if it can be diagnosed or fixed13:15
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* Arkenoi thinks storing contacts and messages in tracker store is terribly bad idea and very poorly implemented13:32
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* DocScrutinizer51 seconds on that notion of Arkenoi 13:39
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, the worst thing I have no slightest idea how to repair it if something is wrong13:40
DocScrutinizer51nuke-all and redo seems the strategy13:41
xarcass~seen wazd13:41
infobotwazd <> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 18d 21h 29m 24s ago, saying: 'Venemo: wazzup? :)'.13:41
DocScrutinizer51however there is *some* kind of dedicated database still somewhere in your $home13:42
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, and what if I do not want to lose all my data?13:42
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, as we already do know there is no soft reset on harmattan13:42
Arkenoieverything just gets killed13:43
JaffaAnyone got a fix for really laggy SSH on N950/N9? "iwconfig wlan0 power off" won't work, even under devel-su13:43
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DocScrutinizer51Arkenoi: don't ask me, I always thought thanks to general architecture esp regarding aegis the whole harmattan is unservicable and evventually that issue will bite Nokia's ass when backups are impossible to restore etc13:45
DocScrutinizer51seems to me system architects had no checkpoint 'servicevbackup' on their whiteboard13:47
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, i remember we had pretty simple and working backups on symbian s80 and fscking hell on s60 just because of stupid DRM13:47
DocScrutinizer51basically same here13:48
Arkenoias one may easily figure out, s80 backups were just what one may expect - plain file system backups13:48
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infobotDocScrutinizer51: :)15:01
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lizardolooks like I missed a lot from yesterday :)15:14
GeneralAntillesLess exciting than it sounds.15:14
lizardowell, I will not ask, there is log for such things ;)15:15
lizardowtf? My Nokia Developer profile settings page is in Japanese ?15:18
lizardoanyone having this problem? Page: (need to login with nokia developer account)15:19
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lizardook, nao seems back to English. weird.15:22
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lizardoGeneralAntilles, well, looks like I at least missed the lumia DDP, because it doesn't show on my DDP page :/ well at least I can focus on N915:30
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grilizardo: Ask them back, there was nothing mentioned about a limited number of devices15:36
lizardogri, I'm still wondering how it would be useful to me , but thanks for the hint :)15:37
grilizardo: Well, there's always someone who'd love a device you don't need. Siblings, parents, wife :)15:38
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jreznikgri: it was mentioned there, at least I had it there - there's set of devices and they are not going to add more15:50
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grijreznik: Oh, I did not know that15:51
jreznikbut still you can ask your local nokia guys to give some devices, they have a list not to duplicate DDP/their own secret deposit to give devels15:51
jreznikin the corporate way: "ask this people on the list if they already received one, if not, don't tell them they will receive" :)15:52
* alterego wonders if Nokia have a way to check an IMEI15:54
Arkenoiis there any logical level dump/restore utility for tracker database? i mean, like sql dump, not "cp" ?15:57
Arkenoineed to repair broken one15:57
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* alterego wonders what this Nokia Pulse stuff is about.16:09
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MohammadAGfucking AKG headphones16:23
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MohammadAGyou'd think if they don't give you silcon replacements they make it permanently attached16:23
MohammadAGbut no, it fell out16:23
TronicHmm, haven't tried that but apple pie wasn't very good for fucking.16:23
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deramMohammadAG: haven't seen any headphones with actually replacement silicons included. many which have multiple sizes yes, but none with multiple pieces of same size16:25
MohammadAGderam, no other sizes as well16:26
deramdo they sell replacements?16:26
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MohammadAGderam, probably not16:32
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MohammadAGbut I really regret buying them16:32
MohammadAG$70, only works on iDevices16:32
deramoh, iDevices use different headset configuration than Android devices..16:35
deramdon't really remember which side Nokia is compared to those16:35
deramthe plug sleeve and lowermost ring (if tip is up) are swapped in iDevice16:36
deramsome companies sell converters quite cheap16:36
deramseems the iPhone is the odd version and Others use the correct pinout16:38
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decibytenokia use the oposite of apple16:45
decibytei bought some new earbuds and had to use a big, clumsy converter to use them with my n900 :(16:46
deramok.. it seams that apple is only one using that utterly wrong version16:46
decibyteyet, all manufacturers make the plugs for iDevices >:(16:46
deramthe sleeve has always been common ground in all TRS type plugs (and TRRS)16:46
deramapple was first to use 3.5mm TRRS as headset connector. so naturally every manufacturer went that way, even if that was not standardized by anyone16:48
deramthat one is not so bad as most of those adapters...
derambut ofcourse the best is to cut the cord and solder new connector16:50
* Arkenoi just purchased some random headphones and they always worked with nokia16:51
deramheadphones work, headset (with mic) won't correctly if wrong version16:52
deramthe mic and common ground signals are backwards on some (aple) devices16:52
MohammadAGany MTF experts around?17:02
MohammadAGI want to sort an MList according to distance and another alphabetically17:02
alteregoMohammadAG: good luck17:05
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MohammadAGalterego, is that a no? :P17:06
MohammadAGalterego, technically I need Qt experts :P17:07
MohammadAGoh it worked17:07
MohammadAGI just had to call sort()17:07
MohammadAGthat's problem #117:07
MohammadAGsecond is fast scrolling17:07
alteregoGood luck17:08
MohammadAGthe example uses a weird buckets concept17:08
MohammadAGI don't get it17:08
MohammadAGalterego, you good at models?17:10
MohammadAGright now, I'm using reset() every time I add an item17:10
MohammadAGI'm pretty sure that's not the correct way, although it works17:11
alteregoTo do what?17:11
MohammadAGalterego, a QAbstractListModel with items from a QList17:11
MohammadAGthe QList is dynamically populated17:11
alteregoWhat are you calling reset for?17:12
MohammadAGalterego, to update the model17:13
MohammadAGotherwise I'm just adding to the QList17:13
MohammadAGwhile the UX list stays the same17:13
alteregoYeah, you need to use the signals really17:13
alteregoOr insertRows directly.17:13
alteregobeingInsertRows() and endInsertRows()17:14
alteregowill trigger a UI refresh.17:14
alteregoSo whenever you're adding an item to your QList, call those two functions around the code and that should keep your list view up-to-date (afair)17:15
MohammadAGbeginInsertRows() needs a QModelIndex17:15
MohammadAGvoid FriendsModel::appendFriend(FriendObject *friendObj)17:15
alteregoJust: beginInsertRows(QModelIndex(), mohamList->count(), mohamList->count())17:16
alteregoWill signal appending one item to the end.17:16
alteregoThe model index isn't important for what you're doing.17:16
alterego(I.E. Not a tree view)17:16
alteregoAnyway, I have to get on with somethings, anything else I can help you with? :P17:18
MohammadAGalterego, thanks, that worked :)17:19
MohammadAGI'll keep on mucking around till I break something :p17:19
alteregoI'm thinking of a new app idea17:19
alteregoI was thinking of a facebook/spotify thingy17:19
alteregoWould allow you to launch the spotify client and listen to what your friends are/were listening too.17:20
alteregoAlso thinking of a friend proximity alert, which alerts you when friends check-in somewhere near to where you are.17:21
MohammadAGalterego, hook onto sociality, I'm not thinking of making it paid17:21
MohammadAGalterego, the iPhone does that :)17:21
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alteregoWell, I wouldn't know, I don't have an iPhone :P17:21
petteridamn, my N9 always loses network on thurdays and drains battery like craxy. Only fix is to reboot.17:21
alteregoAll I have is N8, N9, N950, Lumia 80017:21
MohammadAGalso the iPhone foursquare client does it17:21
alterego(and N900)17:21
MohammadAGyou have a lumia?17:21
MohammadAGthe DDP?17:21
alteregoGot it from another developer thing.17:22
* MohammadAG checks DDP page17:22
alteregoI ordered the DDP one17:22
alteregoThinking of giving it to my brother for xmas :P17:22
MohammadAGyou can sell that :p17:22
MohammadAGor that17:22
alteregoI definitely don't need two :D17:23
MohammadAGactually you do17:23
MohammadAGtwo make up 1GB of RAM17:23
MohammadAGthat's why they only gave us one N95017:23
alteregoBut I have two N9s for 2G RAM :P17:23
alterego+ N950 :P17:23
MohammadAGwhich colours?17:23
alteregoDon't know yet, the other N9 hasn't arrived.17:23
alteregoThe one I have now is 64G black model.17:24
MohammadAGand the screen?17:24
MohammadAGis it shitty?17:24
alteregoI love it.17:24
MohammadAGeven PenTile?17:24
alteregoI thought I'd miss the N950 keyboard, but I don't at all.17:24
MohammadAGI don't use the keyboard tbh17:24
MohammadAGexcept in terminal17:24
alteregoI wish there was more landscape support because the vkb in landscape is amazing.17:24
MohammadAGI used an iPod/iPhone/Galaxy SII for a month17:24
MohammadAGor more, so I'm used to VKBs17:25
alterego BAsically I wish the twitter app and the facebook app would allow me to write updates/messages whatever in landscape ;)17:25
rm_workeveryone always says you get used to vkbd17:25
rm_workbut i'm still skeptical17:25
MohammadAGalterego, QML, force them17:25
alteregorm_work: I was too, the N9 is amazing.17:25
MohammadAGrm_work, iOS/Harmattan did the vkb part right17:25
alteregoThe VKB tactile feedback makes it feel like you're pressing (and releasing) rubber keys,17:26
MohammadAGin fact Harmattan did it better with haptic feedback, but you can install HapticPro on iOS17:26
rm_workMohammadAG: can you press a second key while the first is still pressed?17:26
MohammadAGnot sure, I could on iOS17:26
rm_workthat's the killer for me17:26
alteregoOnce you get over it you feel like you're a super-hero typing on the thing :D17:26
decibyteyou can17:26
rm_worki type too fast17:26
alteregorm_work: you can yes.17:26
alteregoholding shift, etc, works.17:26
rm_workevery virtual keyboard i've ever used doesn't register the second key if i haven't lifted my finger off the first17:26
MohammadAGyou can't press a second key17:26
rm_workwhich is a dealbreaker17:27
rm_workbecause i type so fast on them that i end up not getting half of my letters17:27
MohammadAGI type very fast17:27
rm_workbecause it just didn't count them17:27
MohammadAGah yeah17:27
MohammadAGthat's why iOS's vkb is better17:27
rm_workit lets you?17:27
decibyteyes you can. just not one of the nearby keys,17:28
MohammadAGtapping on a second letter while holding the first one registers the first one and holds the second one17:28
CissWitrm_work: on n9, it works for me. Pressing 's' not releasing and pressing 'a' will actually type 'sa'17:28
MohammadAGoh yeah17:28
MohammadAGit worked17:28
MohammadAGcontacts-search is a bit slow compared to notes17:28
MohammadAGyeah, it works, sorry17:28
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CissWitwhat i dislike on the vkb of n9 is that it doest "repeat". Pressing 's' for a while will only print one s.17:29
alteregoThe N950 is still realy sexy, so I use it for mer/nemo stuff, but the N9 is just a level above and is a really nice day-to-day phone for me.17:29
alteregoTexrat said it best, you just have to keep holding it, can't put it down for too long.17:30
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alteregoAnyway, bbl :P17:30
MohammadAGCissWit, for a reason17:30
MohammadAGhold e, or a, or o17:30
CissWitMohammadAG: yes i know17:30
MohammadAGaccented letters, iOS did that first17:30
CissWitit still anoying17:30
MohammadAGopen source, patch the shit out of it :p17:31
MohammadAGbetter yet, make a gconf key for it and send the patch upstream17:31
CissWiti've not looked yet how vkb was configured/implemented. It's anoying but not really a priority. (it's mainly annoying with arrows keys in terminal btw)17:32
MohammadAGarrow keys?17:33
MohammadAGthe toolbars?17:33
CissWiti don't know if it's directly related to the vkb or to the terminal apps, but it behaves like the vkb.17:34
decibytethe terminal is the only app where i really miss a hardware keyboard. fingerterm kinda makes up for that, except it doesn't support the two finger press we just discussed.17:36
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rm_workis it better than the n950 keyboard? or the same?17:37
rm_workbecause 950 vkbd, i try typing a sentence and get less than half of the letters i hit17:38
rm_workand the backspace key is right above the SEND key T_T17:38
decibytei don't know. never tried an n950.17:39
rm_workhrm :/17:39
rm_workMohammadAG / alterego have -- guys, any thoughts on that?17:40
rm_workdamn, i really need to flash my phone to the new software T_T17:40
rm_workstuck on Beta1 and afraid to flash and lose all my contacts if i don't do the backup right17:40
rm_workalso sad about losing my convo history17:40
MohammadAGbeta2 here17:41
MohammadAGyeah, convo history's a bummer17:41
MohammadAG5 devices though, can't lose em all17:41
rm_worki need to find my n90017:42
rm_worki like.... physically lost it in my house17:42
rm_workit's here somewhere17:42
rm_workis there another way to backup contacts?17:42
rm_workwiki mentions "complicated vcard method"17:43
rm_workbut i couldn't find details anywhere17:43
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rm_workmostly it's annoying because i spent HOURS cleaning up my contacts and merging everything properly, etc17:43
rm_workthough now that i think about it, i remember that i did that on the n900, so it must have carried over properly17:44
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tommasync to google?17:58
tommavcards work too but it is annoying to click everyone open to import them17:59
tommadunno if there is any better way18:00
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Venemohey guys19:56
VenemoI'm looking for a few testers.19:56
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Richlvfor what ?19:59
Venemoda best game ever!19:59
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niwakameYou've ported Skyrim or Battlefield3 to N9? xD20:00
Venemoit's a jigsaw puzzle game called PuzzleMaster20:01
ZogG_laptopis dj_something is banned for ever?20:02
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: i'm trying to make people to upload to almost by force20:02
ZogG_laptopbtw i didn't succseed to upload my project =(20:02
ieatlinthe's banned until someone with ops is willing to unban him..20:02
ieatlintwas supposed to be 24h, but it's not automatic20:03
Venemoyou can wget this and dpkg -i on your N9(50):
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: ^ ?20:03
ieatlintyeah, i think doc is the one guy you won't convince to unban him :P20:04
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* DocScrutinizer51 puts fingers in ears - 'nananananaaaanananaaaa'20:05
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: you told 24 so it's 2420:06
ieatlintactually that wasn't doc20:06
ieatlintget your drama straight20:06
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: are you op here too?20:06
Venemowell, I don't understand why you guys are picking on him.20:08
Venemobut I won't pretend to care :)20:08
* ieatlint is not20:09
ZogG_laptophe promised me to teach me somethingme neither20:09
ieatlintGeneralAntilles: if you're around, you may want to consider removing the ban20:09
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ZogG_laptopsplit to things above in 2 msgs20:09
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles is op?20:09
ieatlinti'm sure doc secretly supports the ban being removed20:09
ieatlinthow else will he get the opportunity to do it himself..20:10
ieatlintZogG_laptop: he's the one who banned him, so i'm going to say yes20:10
ZogG_laptopi just don't get when op is never, like almost never around, but it doesn't stop him to ban somebody, or it's just me that log in in other hous than GeneralAntilles ?20:10
ZogG_laptoplogin* hours*20:11
ZogG_laptoplike how can you tell what's better for chan and make decision for everyone and just not be here.20:11
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: unban him please20:11
ZogG_laptopanyway back to harmattan20:11
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, no20:12
ZogG_laptopcan i use qtnetwork instead curl ? like i mean i sure can, but can it fully replace it in functuallity?20:12
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MohammadAGthink so20:13
MohammadAGfor uploading/downloading yes20:13
ieatlintyes, it should do everything curl does20:13
ieatlintbut you'll do it via a qiodevice20:13
ieatlinteasier to make it async, and provide info on transfer speed20:14
ZogG_laptopdamn it would be harder than i think20:14
ZogG_laptopi want to post data and get replies20:15
ZogG_laptopand part of data is files20:15
ieatlintthat shouldn't be too hard at all20:15
ieatlinti've done that posting xml-rpc20:15
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ZogG_laptopi don't know c++ that much, like i almost do not know it and Qt is something totally new to me20:16
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, need examples?20:16
ieatlintknow c?20:16
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: sure i would liek to, i learn from exaples better than from tuts20:16
ZogG_laptopieatlint: a little bit20:17
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ZogG_laptopieatlint: that's the way i study actually =)20:17
ZogG_laptoptrying to do something and trying to gain exp20:17
MohammadAGreplace filename with what you have and change the URL, that should be it20:18
MohammadAGreplies can be read with QNetworkReply::readAll()20:18
ieatlintnot sure that's actually the most clear example20:22
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ieatlint has some usage info20:22
ieatlintbut the idea is you create a QNetworkAccessManager once, and then you load in your url into a QNetworkRequest, where you then set all the post data and headers.  you then post the QNeworkRequest via QNetworkAccessManager::post(), which returns a QNetworkReply20:24
ieatlintthe QNetworkReply will create a finished() signal when done20:24
ieatlintand you can then call QNetworkReply:readAll() to get the data (and a bunch of other ways to get it too)20:25
MohammadAGreply data*20:25
ieatlintQNetworkAccessManager and QNetworkRequest can be reused as much as you want, and QNetworkReply is something you never make yourself, and should delete in the QNetworkReply::finished() signal via QNetworkReply::deleteLater()20:26
ieatlint(note that QNetworkAccessManager also has a finished() signal that may be more desirable since it will include the QNetworkReply that finished)20:28
ieatlintyeah, nice and simple, right? :P20:28
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MohammadAGieatlint, QNetworkRequest should not be used a poster20:30
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: thanks would look into it20:31
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i use curl, but the problem is i want to make progress and other stuff and use native qt as my app for n9 so it would be easier to add stuff with qt and change20:32
ieatlintMohammadAG: never said to use it as a pointer, but seeing as it's used a const in QNetworkAccessManager, i don't see why that would be a problem so long as you dereference it in the call20:32
ieatlinti did incorrectly state you should put your post data into it though... post data is part of the post() call and not a part of the QNetworkRequest20:33
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DocScrutinizer51ZogG_laptop: I told WUT?20:39
DocScrutinizer51ieatlint: I'm maybe BOFH but I'm no pervert to create iches so I have sth to scratch20:43
ieatlinti know, that's why i said you wouldn't unban him20:44
ieatlintbut you probably have a secret desire to see it happen :P20:45
DocScrutinizer51actually not20:45
ieatlintalright, fine, hehe20:45
DocScrutinizer51I feel a deep relief for knowing I actually see the *whole* convo since 20h20:46
ieatlintit's not 8pm where you are20:47
DocScrutinizer51it's bad enough I was forced to /ignore on a +o chan20:47
gri<ZogG_laptop> is dj_something is banned for ever? -- he is already unbanned20:47
griatleast I've seen GeneralAntilles removing the ban today20:48
DocScrutinizer51and I didn't feel good with it nor was the convo usually making sense20:48
DocScrutinizer51gri: shhhhhhhhhh! maybe he never notices!20:48
ieatlinti'm generally not used to conversations making sense20:48
griDocScrutinizer51: He knows that but has no interest to come back yet20:49
ieatlintand the ban was already lifted... djszapi came in and left just before you started talking20:49
DocScrutinizer51pheeeew, fine with me20:49
griHe's not as bad as some of you think but. Everyone has his own flaws ..20:50
DocScrutinizer51well, maybe some of yo miss a few blocks for the whole picture20:51
ieatlintyeah, he's a polarizing figure, but he hasn't caused me so much trouble20:51
jonniI'm wondering how slow store QA is, I have 2 apps in the queue, but havent received any notices yet.... :)20:52
DocScrutinizer51ieatlint: so you're one of the lucky dozen20:52
DocScrutinizer51others were less lucky20:52
grijonni: I'm waiting for 15 days now20:52
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jonnitesting monkeys are overworked :)20:53
grithey did not know how to test my program o_O20:53
ieatlintthat's bad20:54
griI had to explain and still can see they used the wrong login data even though I sent them the right one20:54
DocScrutinizer51ieatlint: whom-it-may-concern? dj already 3 times deserved a kickban and only nobody notices as all the people involved (except him) managed things behind the scenes and always were WAY too forgiving and reluctant to ban him20:55
ieatlintDocScrutinizer51: i deal with assholes constantly20:56
ieatlinthe doesn't rank that high20:56
DocScrutinizer51in the common aim to keep this chan friendly20:56
DocScrutinizer51ieatlint: you ain't seen nuttin20:56
ieatlinti don't have the urge to start punching him and keep going until he stops moving20:57
ieatlintso that puts him ahead of a lot of geeks i "know"20:57
grijonni: my testing monkey comes from mexico while the woman which writes the emails is from canada :)20:57
griwho not which20:57
javispedrodid you know that the wikipedia n9 page lists pr1.2 as "Promised" and including "universal copy/paste" and USB OTG? =)20:58
DocScrutinizer51I rufuse to discuss this topic any further, I'm happy when I know both him and his name as topic far away20:58
ieatlintjavispedro: well, if wikipedia says it, it must be true20:58
* javispedro has some experience with that20:58
ieatlinti personally don't believe the OTG bit20:59
DocScrutinizer51BWAHAHAHA OTG20:59
ieatlintbut universal copy/paste maybe, and i know for sure there will be a pr1.220:59
MohammadAGPR1.2 will swap your USB port out20:59
MohammadAGNOLO has support for that20:59
DocScrutinizer51I know for sure there already *is* a PR1.2 beta21:00
jonniplease do not discuss what is or isn't in possible pr releases, as that goes under NDA.21:00
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: ++21:00
ieatlintthere's a 1.3 beta even :P21:01
ieatlintwell, maybe not beta, but builds21:01
javispedroand a PR1.4 for the N900!21:01
javispedroit includes Qt4.821:01
MohammadAGthere should be a PR1.3.2 for the N90021:01
* DocScrutinizer51 is fetching the motor banhammer21:01
* javispedro gives DocScrutinizer51 PR1.2 as christmas present21:02
RST38hDoc <-- the mighty Thor21:02
infobotpr1.2 is probably available since early Tuesday morning. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update21:02
javispedroomg Tuesday morning21:02
DocScrutinizer51nah, I'm working on Thor all day21:02
RST38hstill haven't updated, have you?21:02
RST38hit is Thursday already21:02
javispedroI've updated to PR0, efectively and infinitely raising my expectations21:04
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: google for thor(ium)&LTE&ericsson21:07
javispedroloving that this time I did not participate in the thread where the general population found out the true color depth of the device21:08
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dm8tbrjavispedro: hm?21:13
javispedrothe "it appears on wikipedia so it must be true" comment above reminded me of certain discussion with a guy that really wanted to believe the n900 was 24bpp -- because "it was on wikipedia".21:14
javispedro I see that some people have slightly discussed it on tmo again for the n9, as wikipedia again lists the n9 as "24bpp".21:15
yipdwoh, dangit21:18
yipdwI missed that that was the N900 PR 1.2 release21:18
yipdwand was like "whoa, Harmattan PR 1.2 already"21:18
ieatlintwhat's the depth of the n950?21:19
ieatlintit's supposed to be higher than the n9 i've been told21:19
javispedro16bpp as usual, dunno about the panel.21:20
* javispedro brb21:21
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ieatlintyeah, looking at wikipedia, i'd say that entire list of alleged features coming in 1.2 is bullshit21:26
ieatlint"folders on the home screeen" ... really doubt that somehow21:27
ieatlintand while i do believe they'll add copy/paste to things like email and web pages, "universal" is a strong word, and i wouldn't expect it to work on everything21:27
ieatlintreally more of an application-specific feature to add than a system-wide one21:28
griokay, now I really don't understand how the Ovi QA is testing. I installed my application on "Nokia Remote Device Access", where the devices still run PR 1.0 of the N9 - and everything works fine as it does here! Seems they are really just unable to enter the login data o_O21:29
tommamaybe the person testing it doesn't know how to write?21:33
tommaor read...21:33
SpeedEvilWhat did they refuse it on?21:34
griI don't have a reply from them but I can see in my server log that they failed to login several times yesterday21:34
DocScrutinizer"no account for $foobar-social-service. Rejected for not allowing login"21:34
griand also that not a single login was successful :)21:35
MohammadAGwhat's the app?21:35
griMohammadAG: cruel messaging application:
MohammadAGhow does that work? :P21:36
griwebsite scraping21:36
grior "controlling an invisible browser"21:37
MohammadAGI want one of those21:37
MohammadAGfor the Israeli bus station21:37
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: go for fremantle Fahrplan21:38
griDocScrutinizer: you mean as mathematical expression?21:38
DocScrutinizeras concept?21:38
DocScrutinizernever mind21:39
ieatlintwebapp^W ?21:39
MohammadAGwebapp/0 should get through QA21:40
MohammadAGwould be funny if sth like that gets rejected due to "Name divides by 0"21:40
ieatlinti divide my name by 0 all the time21:40
griwow, nokia rda servers are hosted by "Nokia Mobile Phones Wireless Future Laboratory" - that sounds cool :D21:41
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lizardoDocScrutinizer, which .config are you using to build ?  I tried "rm581_defconfig" but the device did not complete boot22:50
DocScrutinizerlizardo: I didn't build that stuff22:50
lizardoDocScrutinizer, sorry , I inferred from http://forum.meego.c that you were building these kernels :(22:51
lizardofixing :
DocScrutinizerI'm only hosting it22:53
DocScrutinizerand pushed and prodded a lil bit to get this done22:54
DocScrutinizerthe real source is absolutely trustworthy bit prefers to stay anonymous22:55
lizardoDocScrutinizer, oh I see. I was lost in the chain or authorship :)22:56
DocScrutinizeranyway rm581_defconfig sounds odd, as that's neither N9 nor N95022:56
lizardoDocScrutinizer, yes, but it comes from the debian/rules on the kernel source package22:57
DocScrutinizeractually I have no idea what's rm58122:57
DocScrutinizerrm680 or rm696 should be the one iirc22:57
lizardoDocScrutinizer, sure, as long as they existed on arch/arm/config :) I think the name was kept for some historical reason, but I really don't know22:58
DocScrutinizerask generally in here, there shall be others who actually know which defconfig to use for a proper kernel22:59
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hah, wb23:09
javispedroieatlint: actually, konttori mentioned folders on the home screen, so that one has some credibility ;P23:10
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RST38hjavispedro: !23:14
* RST38h wants folders like now, dood!23:15
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ieatlintinteresting... i'll be curious to see how that's implemented without just making some sort of "folder" application that launches23:18
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DocScrutinizerlizardo: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot been used to build the unpatched kernel. So whatever config debianisation uses by default was also used for the openmode kernel.23:51
lizardoDocScrutinizer, ok, in this case my kernel didn't boot for some other reason. Investigating :)23:52
* DocScrutinizer off for dinner23:53
lizardoDocScrutinizer, thanks23:53
DocScrutinizerI'm just parroting info, for you and *23:53
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