IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-12-14

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gabriel9night all00:32
djszapisleep well.00:33
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gabriel9morning09:01
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DocScrutinizer>>Thank you for your order:  OrderID:xxxxx Device: Nokia Lumia 800 Developer gift<<09:28
Stskeepsheh, testing for blendability?09:28
DocScrutinizersth like that09:28
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ieatlinthaha, congrats09:33
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ieatlintputting in the order for mine now too09:34
ieatlinthint: if you got an n950, go look where you ordered it09:36
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npmcan we put harmattan on our lumia's ?? :-) (i'm hoping for a slip-up in the shipping dept and then send an n9 by accident)10:01
SpeedEvilSeems doubtful.10:01
ieatlinti doubt it, and the odds of them screwing up in that fashion is probably damn near impossible10:02
npmso i guess finding elop body parts in the box is out of the question.10:02
dm8tbrnpm: that's so impossible that you're likely trolling10:02
npmi'm likely joking10:02
dm8tbr:)10:03
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ieatlintthere's a memo box in the order form10:03
ieatlintyou can ask politely10:03
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ieatlintor ask them to draw a pony on the box10:03
npmi just said thanks...10:03
npmafter all this is about the only way i'd try a windows phone... but i'm open minded enough that i'll try it out just to see what the fuss is about;10:04
ieatlintyeah, that's my attitude10:04
npmplus i'd like to be able to leave my n950 safely on my desk as a development device10:05
ieatlinti don't really see a chance in hell i'll develop for it, but i'm not going to turn away free hardware, and i've heard people i know say wp7 didn't look bad10:05
* ieatlint shrugs10:05
npmas i carry it around in a rather unwieldy protective case because i'm afraid of damaging it10:05
npmit's got a fast processor and a fast browser so it could be useful for generic purposes10:06
djszapithey rejected me because my company already has a request, and they said I did not provide enough information. :)10:06
SpeedEvilI assume these are corporate dev membersups?10:06
ieatlintnpm: time to go buy an n9 perhaps10:06
ieatlintSpeedEvil: launchpad10:06
npmwith what money?10:07
ieatlintindividual10:07
djszapinpm: play music on the street10:07
ieatlintnpm: whore yourself out on craigslist10:07
npmpeople don't like disabled whores10:07
ieatlintgo to a harmattan meetup and look for the scrawniest guy with an n9, and corner him10:07
ieatlint(how i got mine)10:08
djszapiinterestingly enough, I sent the same application for Qt Ambassador, N950, QtonPi and everywhere else. It was not enough for a Lumia, so it must be a cool device!10:08
djszapi:)10:08
ieatlintyou got your n950 via the qt ambassador program?10:09
djszapi-10:09
djszapivia helsinki meego meetup10:09
* gri hopes the lumia is not blue10:09
ieatlintah, yeah, heard about that10:09
* djszapi hopes Lumia is pink :)10:09
* gri too10:10
grisince my girlfriend will get mine :D10:10
ieatlintorder form doesn't say, but the little picture was black if that's actually indicative10:11
djszapigri: wp for your girlfriend ? You would like to break up ? :P :P10:11
* djszapi hides10:11
ieatlintare you kidding? wp7 is perfect for a gf10:11
npmno, you just use the built-in tracking software to see where she's at :-)10:11
gridjszapi: She had a windows mobile 6.5 phone before, it can't get worse10:11
ieatlintit's free, it's pretty, and you get to say "i dunno dear, i don't know anything about wp7"10:12
gridjszapi: and she only uses sms and telephone - no apps at all10:12
djszapiNokia 3310 ? :)10:12
SpeedEvilIs there a conclusion on what the new developer update is? the 11K one?10:13
ieatlintno idea what you mean10:13
Tronic~aegis-no-thanks10:14
infobotrumour has it, aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/10:14
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npmInexplicable ovi result "#3 Nokia N95 0.1 %" -- so apparently voicetogoog has 3.482 downloads of the  n9 software on n95??10:19
SpeedEvilIf true, that would be fun.10:20
npmdoes the n95 or n900 run n9 .debs, because ovi seems to think it can10:20
SpeedEvillink the deb and I'll try to install it on my n90010:21
djszapithe problem would not be the deb itself.10:21
djszapimore like the application.10:21
SpeedEvilI know10:21
npmyeah it'd be qt mobility10:21
SpeedEvilI'd be astonished.10:21
npmwell it runs on my desktop and meego netbooks, but thats the x86 version :-)10:22
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jonnimixing softfp and hardfp is a fail :)10:26
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djszapiWe have activated your Launchpad membership and you can access your account by going to http://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/ and there choosing the ‘Go to Nokia Developer Launchpad homepage (for member individuals only)’ login link. We expect to see some great WP applications from you in the near future J11:21
djszapiso I can now get a girlfriend to give it to ? :P11:21
gridjszapi: I can still order a n950 on that page :D11:22
matrixxdjszapi: that can't be generalized that every girl would appreciate a fake ;)11:22
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djszapihehe =)11:23
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matrixxthough there's a change that normal people do, and I'm not necessarily in that group :(11:24
matrixx*chance11:24
MohammadAGdjszapi: Lumia DDP?11:26
djszapiyeah :)11:28
MohammadAGdjszapi: Where?11:28
Stskeepsin DDP11:29
MohammadAGStskeeps: I can't find that11:29
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djszapiMohammadAG: https://forumnokia.secure.force.com/apex/DDP11:29
djszapior just https://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/11:30
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* jreznik saw the list of cz people who will get lumia, expect some people would be "happy" :)11:33
MohammadAGWow, free, expected it to be discounted11:33
alteregoYeah, woo11:34
alterego(Rather an N9) :P11:34
jreznikMohammadAG: I heard they're going to distribute a lots of free devices before...11:34
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w00tbefore what? wp actually becomes popular? :)11:34
alteregoYeah, they want to get developers, it's called a "Developer Seeding Program"11:34
SpeedEvilIn order to make seeds gow, you cover them with fertiliser.11:36
alteregoA.K.A Shit11:37
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alterego:)11:37
djszapithe problem is that the security of windows phones are rather poor.11:37
alteregoI thought the security was quite good.11:38
alteregoThe Model certainly is, to the point of being annoying.11:38
alteregoOh wait, are you praising AEGIS again?>11:38
MohammadAGZing11:38
jreznik:D11:39
jreznikso, who's going to click Order? :)11:39
alteregoI don't know whether to sell my surplus supply of gadgets or keep them ..11:40
djszapialterego: you are quite wrong technically. We investigated t heir security after the announcement and from what we can say, it is rather poor.11:40
alteregoI just hope they send me a colourful one.11:40
djszapisurely better than N900, but that is obviously not a reference...11:40
alteregoAll my gadgets are black, well, except one white N911:40
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alteregoAnd a chrome N811:40
jreznikall black, silver C0, sorry C7 :)11:41
alteregoC0 isn't that the proto code for the E7? :D11:41
jreznikalterego: it's C7 with C0 label, probably some pre-production device, now with Belle :)11:42
alteregoI have Belle on the N811:44
MohammadAGOrdered, from my iPhone :p11:44
alteregoHeh11:45
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jreznikiwhat?11:45
MohammadAGiPhone11:46
* alterego wonders whether a windows phone is lamer than an iPhone11:46
alteregoI'd go to say that's an upgrade MohammadAG :p11:46
MohammadAGiPhone in one pocket, n950 in the othet11:46
MohammadAGFYI the n950 receives calls faster11:47
jreznikI like some wp75 ideas, it's probably better than ios and android but limited in everything, for users, devs...11:47
alteregoI'm yet to develop anything on mine11:48
alteregoBut I think I will, at some point.11:48
alteregoI've used it to get some ideas.11:48
MohammadAGGot the order received email11:49
MohammadAGThat took a week for the n95011:49
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SpeedEvilFunky.11:54
SpeedEvilIt's even a 'sale' - so you can ebay it.11:54
SpeedEvil(not that ...)11:54
SpeedEvilBut I imagine some will.11:54
MohammadAGI wonder if it has developer device on the back11:57
grithey will start sending them out when they have finished to "lumia domino day" in ther building :D11:58
grito/the11:58
MohammadAGWhen when when???11:58
SpeedEvil:)11:59
grino idea, the ddp order page yesterday said "when we have stock. 14th was guessed" which is today11:59
unreal-mmm, when I type "netstat -an | grep -v unix", i notice there are some connections in CLOSE_WAIT state that have been there for days12:16
unreal-(on a nokia n9)12:16
unreal-anyone else experiencing this?12:17
unreal-it seems that as the device switches between networks, connections are lost, and never closed totally by the network stack...12:18
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Ans5iunreal-: is there process affiliated?12:24
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tommaseems like netstat on harmattan doesn't support -p12:26
unreal-nope, but there is lsof12:26
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unreal-Ans5i: mmm, doesn't seem so.12:30
unreal-netstat says this :12:31
unreal-tcp       24      0 90.95.34.35:53930       83.150.75.213:443       CLOSE_WAIT12:31
unreal-tcp       24      0 192.168.10.98:53091     83.150.75.213:443       CLOSE_WAIT12:31
unreal-tcp       24      0 90.94.220.205:58086     83.150.75.213:443       CLOSE_WAIT12:31
unreal-tcp       24      0 90.94.220.205:62070     83.150.75.213:443       CLOSE_WAIT12:31
unreal-tcp       24      0 90.94.165.38:49525      83.150.75.213:443       CLOSE_WAIT12:31
unreal-(obviously, the src IPs you see are "old")12:31
unreal-so I can't imagine that a process could bind to an IP that's not available anymore ...12:32
tommaunreal-, i have one connection like that with CLOSE_WAIT and remote is same12:32
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tommasearching ip and found: http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Nseries-and-Symbian-Smartphones/6710-tries-permanently-to-phone-home/td-p/71436812:34
spenapis there any link to the latest one-click flasher for the N950? I could find only the beta 1, the link to beta 2 was no longer valid12:35
unreal-tomma: i'm not concerned that it's calling home (even though i should, maybe :-) ), i'm concerned that the network stack is broken because these connections should be closed12:37
tommayeah but still... i would like to know which process is doing that12:37
unreal-lsof is not helping very much (loads of access denied, even with root, aegis again?)12:38
unreal-tomma: i've noticed that sometimes the n9 stops connecting automatically to known networks... and was wondering if there was a link between the broken stack12:40
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Ans5imaybe tcpdump could dig it out on next time12:42
tommaCOMMAND  PID USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME12:44
tommaslpgwd  6223 user   16u  IPv4  83792      0t0  TCP 192.168.1.51:61125->83.150.75.213:https (CLOSE_WAIT)12:44
unreal-interesting12:47
unreal-which user did you use to get that lsof output?)12:47
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tommadevelh12:48
tommadevelsh12:48
tommawhich is used by default if you log in as developer12:48
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unreal-ah good!12:51
unreal-slpgwd  5087 user   16u  IPv4      70103      0t0   TCP 90.94.220.205:58086->83.150.75.213:https (CLOSE_WAIT)12:51
unreal-slpgwd  5087 user   17u  IPv4      71790      0t0   TCP 90.94.220.205:62070->83.150.75.213:https (CLOSE_WAIT)12:51
unreal-slpgwd  5087 user   18u  IPv4     246795      0t0   TCP 90.94.165.38:49525->83.150.75.213:https (CLOSE_WAIT)12:51
unreal-slpgwd  5087 user   19u  IPv4     230459      0t0   TCP 192.168.10.98:53091->83.150.75.213:https (CLOSE_WAIT)12:51
unreal-slpgwd  5087 user   20u  IPv4     233377      0t0   TCP 90.95.34.35:53930->83.150.75.213:https (CLOSE_WAIT)12:51
* unreal- is considering killing slpgwd12:52
Ans5islp gateway daemon12:53
unreal-what does it do?12:54
Ans5itries to connect prod pos svc ? :)12:54
unreal-:)12:55
unreal-ok, after killing that process and starting it again, no more CLOSE_WAIT12:55
Ans5iie. i don't know12:55
Ans5iunreal-: you can always try -h for it12:56
alteregoMohammadAG: the Lumias are just standard Lumias12:59
alteregoMohammadAG: no markings, in proper sales package for your region as well (if you live in a region they're going to be distributed for)12:59
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alteregoAnd I think all the N9s and Lumias they're giving out are the black ones. At least, that's all I've been sent. I hope I'm wrong and I get a pretty colour ...13:00
leinirthe N9s that were given out at devdays were all cyan :)13:06
unreal-Ans5i: of course, no -h / --help ;)13:07
unreal-it doesn't seem they really want us to know how the thing works13:08
djszapi"We expect to see some great WP applications from you in the near future" -> interesting why they write it. I mentioned only one application port, if any, not "applications".13:09
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npmso why can't i read from the fifo i just created and wrote to...  if ((fd = ::mkfifo(qPrintable(resultPath), S_IRWXU | S_IRWXO | S_IRWXG)) == -1) {13:18
djszapihard to anticipate without any error outputs.13:19
npmoh it makes the fifo just fine... and then blocks and leaves my entire program (qt/qml) hung.13:19
grialterego: my n9 was blue13:19
npmjoys of building a webserver and media converter into my qt app13:19
npmif I set the fd=1 then it happily blats the converted stream to stdout13:20
npmand doesn't hang13:20
npmi'm basically trying to create an "internal pipe" in my program from gstreamer fdsink to a webserver read13:21
alteregogri: how did you obtain the N9?13:21
npmso as to convert media on the fly13:21
grialterego: dev days, all were blue :)13:21
leinirs/blue/cyan/ ;)13:22
djszapithe blue stuff =)13:22
* npm wusses out and writes to filesystem13:22
alteregoCool13:24
djszapinpm: I would recommend localizing the issue first.13:24
alteregoI'd like a blue one13:24
grialterego: We can change if you give me a red one :)13:25
npmi have... i decided i don't want to be blocked. and writing to the filesystem is a feature, it's called "caching" i just have to write a cache manager now13:27
djszapinpm: I wrote an open3 perl-like stuff in C. It works fine.13:27
djszapican be fed from stdin.13:27
npmcontext: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=36585&postcount=1013:27
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npm i open like this: !file->open(fd, QIODevice::ReadOnly | QIODevice::Unbuffered)13:28
npmwhere             file = new QFile();13:29
npmi thought  QIODevice::Unbuffered would handle the blocking on named pipe13:29
npmbut it doesn't13:29
Ans5ihttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/259355/how-can-you-flush-a-write-using-a-file-descriptor13:30
djszapiohh well, it is not C. I wrote it in low-level C :P13:30
npmyeah i miss those days :-)13:30
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npmwhen a bit was a bit13:30
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djszapiyeah, a bit is now a separate framework in qt :P13:31
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npmyeah when you have to do introspection to set a bitmask, you know they've gone too far13:32
djszapihttp://paste.kde.org/158750/ -> it was something like that13:32
npmAns5i: thanks13:32
djszapinot, popen is a bit tricky when you try to feed in bash for instance.13:33
djszapinote*13:33
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djszapiX-Fade ping, do you see the point insupporting SASL in OCS as well ?13:38
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JackaLXHey People!  Has anyone here been able to get that NaviFirm+ thing to run under wine in Linux?  I've tried but it doesn't work for me. :-(13:59
JackaLXI heard a rumour that there is a C version of it floating about somewhere, but I've not been able to find that.14:00
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djszapihttp://www.symbiantweet.com/video-deploying-on-windows-8-tablets-with-qt-commercial14:13
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l32606Anybody could help tell me what is the major different between meego and harmattan?14:37
l32606Or give me some docs14:37
l32606Thanks14:38
jonnimeego==rpm based, harmattan=deb based.14:38
alteregoharmattan is basically Maemo with MeeGo developer APIs14:39
Appiahlike the n900 I thought the N9 would come with some community application repository.14:42
matrixxAppiah: there is; apps.formeego.org, but doesn't come as pre-configured14:43
Appiahyes I found apps.formeego.org which had and update yesterday which broke it14:44
jonni'you can submit your community apps to ovi store as free apps' (tm).14:44
Appiahand it looks pretty empty14:44
matrixxoh :(14:44
X-FadeAppiah: N950?14:44
AppiahN914:44
l32606So they both share the same API and I can porting from one to the other.14:44
alteregoIn a fair few cases, that is true.14:45
alteregoIt depends on the nature of the application14:45
X-FadeAppiah: Care to try this one? http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/xfade:/harmattan-tests/Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/armel/org.formeego.apps_0.9.11_armel.deb14:45
Appiahsure gimme a sec14:46
X-FadeAppiah: And see if that upgrades it?14:46
matrixxyesterday's update didn't break it on my device14:46
matrixxI have N950 though14:47
X-FadeNo, it is a bit random. I could only reproduce it on one of my N950 running an older beta.14:47
Appiahcant uninstall either14:47
matrixx:/14:47
X-Fadeproblem is in prerm script.14:47
X-FadeI messed up there.14:48
X-FadeAppiah: Let me know if that works for you, so I know I am on the right track to fix it :)14:51
Appiahtesting now...14:57
Appiahnope15:01
Appiahnot working X-Fade15:01
X-FadeAppiah: Do you have .10 installed?15:02
Appiah.10 what15:03
X-FadeAppiah: version 0.9.1015:03
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Appiahwell15:07
Appiahit's installed and wont uninstall15:07
Appiahand wont upgrade15:07
X-FadeYeah, but it is 0.9.10, right?15:08
Appiahyes15:08
X-FadeAppiah: Do you have developer mode enabled?15:09
Appiahnope15:12
Appiahis that required?15:12
Appiahas of 9.11?15:12
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xmlich02hi, is this known bug? http://pcmlich.fit.vutbr.cz/tmp/20111214111425.png Should i report it?15:30
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warptrossehi15:32
warptrosseI'm having problems in trying to enable developer mode... in nokia n9.... It always says "Can't install - Installation package not found"15:33
warptrosseI have the last update installed 20.2011.40.415:34
warptrossedoes anyone can help me with this?15:34
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Venemoxmlich02, just tap "refresh" and the bug will disappear. at least it does for me15:36
djszapiwarptrosse: have you installed SSU enabler packages ?15:37
djszapiIt was clean reflash, with content image ?15:37
Venemomuhaha, yesterday I saw an N9 which had almost the same issue15:38
Venemoit said "installation interrupted" when I tried to enable developer mode on it15:39
djszapiwarptrosse: http://paste.kde.org/158780/ -> try with these repos.15:39
warptrossedjszapi what are those packages?... and yes it is a clean phone... just bought yesterdat :)15:39
djszapithat is sort of ouch. :/15:39
djszapiis it N9 ?15:39
warptrosseyes15:39
warptrosseand I dont have terminal15:40
djszapiyou should have a terminal at least for printing oin the applauncher, but honestly: I have no clue.15:40
djszapiin*15:40
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warptrosseas i understand... enabling the "developer mode"... it will install a lot of packages and will give me access to the terminal15:42
warptrossebut i cannnot enable it...15:42
djszapimmm, sorry. I cannot help with this.15:42
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warptrosseIt start searching for the packages... and timeout after a minute... saying "can't install...."15:43
djszapiwarptrosse: do you have proper network connection ?15:43
warptrosseyes15:43
warptrossei can acces to google using the phone15:44
djszapithat is not neccesarily enough. Try to download a bigger file grob.15:44
warptrosseok let me try15:44
djszapifrom grob*15:45
warptrossealso, the "checking for updates" in the application manager... take a lot... but it finishes....15:45
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djszapiat least 50-3 works here.15:48
lizardowarptrosse, also make sure your N9 has the correct Time & Date (i.e. it is not set to soem time in future or past), I may cause issues when installing apps15:48
djszapiwasn't that issue fixed ?15:49
lizardoI don't remember the exact errors, but they caused "download interrupted" problems15:49
warptrossei checked and i have the date/time ok15:50
lizardodjszapi, I don't think so. Every recent N9 I touched gave me problems if I left the Time&Date incorrect... But I can't tell for sure because I now always check this before anything else :)15:50
djszapithat is nasty if pkgmgr guys did not fix the error management15:50
djszapiwell, I cannot do too much in aegis origin if gpg does not handle it properly...15:51
warptrossedjszapi you said "at least 50-3 works here." is that a new version? i have the 20.2011.40.415:51
djszapinot really available for you.15:51
warptrosse:P15:51
djszapiwarptrosse: so you cannot install any packages, and you do not have terminal on the applauncher either ?15:51
djszapiif that is the case, I think I cannot really help...15:51
warptrossei cannot install the "developer mode" packages15:52
djszapilizardo: it should not come with wrong settings from the shop :P15:52
djszapiwarptrosse: none of them ?15:52
djszapialso, do you have a terminal on the applauncher ?15:52
warptrosseis there a way to connect to internet thought USB... to test something different...15:52
warptrosseno... i have no terminal app...15:53
djszapiwell, if you can download bigger files, like a song, pdf or Ovi store app: it does not matter.15:53
lizardowarptrosse, I'm afraid the stock N9 image does not have any connectivity enabled by default :(15:53
warptrossethe nokia documantations says that enabling the "developer mode" will install some packages and enable the terminal15:54
lizardowarptrosse, I suppose you are opening web pages normally on your WLAN connection on the N9? I've seen this problem recently (on a new N9) but I can't remember if it was related to a unstable WLAN connection15:55
lizardowarptrosse, yes, it will enable a terminal, but it requires installing packages from the internet15:55
warptrosseI can open google... but it takes some time to open for example qt web page15:56
warptrosseI will try with other connection15:56
warptrossemaybe some weird problem with this15:56
warptrosseAP15:56
djszapiwarptrosse: I have an idea15:57
djszapiit would help if someone can verify this issue because I recall that repository is sometimes unavailable for hours/days. Try it again in a few days.15:57
lizardowarptrosse, the harmattan repositories sometimes are very slow, at least for me ... It might be that the refresh operation is not being able to update the list of available packages15:57
warptrosseyes i think that is the problem15:58
warptrossebecouse it takes a lot to refresh the repos using "check for updates" in the application manager15:58
djszapirefresh operation is not buggy15:59
djszapithe repository access might be the culsprit.15:59
lizardowarptrosse, If I remember correctly , it will show no errors even if it was not able to fully update the package cache15:59
djszapiso it is simply just that, you need to wait few hours or days.15:59
warptrosseyes that happend... no error pops15:59
warptrosse:(16:00
warptrossei dont have that time hehehe16:00
warptrossei will try with GPRS16:00
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djszapiyou need to wait anyway.16:01
warptrosseoh.... i found something16:01
warptrossei disabled "allow background connections" from the connection config.... and now it starts to download16:02
warptrosseor at less trying to download :(16:03
lizardowarptrosse, out of curiosity , are you able to open https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/ on the web browser ? it should show "Access Denied" which is normal because it is not supposed to be open on the browser.16:03
djszapiwarptrosse: that would be rather weird reasoning.16:03
lizardobut if it fails with some other error, then there is some connectivity problem between your  N9 and the repositories16:03
warptrosseaccess denied16:04
warptrosseit gives me access denied16:04
lizardowarptrosse, ok, so at least it connects to the server...16:05
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warptrossewell it is downloading... at 10 kbps but downloading :)16:06
warptrossethanks you very much!16:07
warptrosseto both :)16:07
djszapiI just do not understand what you do, and how you fixed.16:07
lizardowarptrosse, now I remember, it had this issue when using a very weak WLAN , which only gave me a few kbps16:07
lizardomaybe it is some timeout issue16:08
warptrosseI just disabled "allow background connections".... which does have too much sense16:08
djszapibut why ?16:08
djszapididn't you just boot the phone and try to enable the developer mode ?16:09
djszapiwere you doing hefty stuff in the background ?16:09
warptrosseyes... several times16:09
djszapiand even that, it should not happen with a proper connection, and I asked whether or not you have one :)16:09
warptrosseand no... i have open only the settings app16:09
warptrosseyes16:10
djszapicould you please download a pdf and tell the downrate rate ?16:10
warptrosseand I told you... that i have a proper connection :)16:10
djszapiI am now curious because this is plain weird16:10
warptrosseyes16:10
djszapialso, where is this "allo background connections" stuff ?16:10
djszapiohh internet connections16:11
warptrossein settings -> internet connection16:11
warptrossemmm... 40 kbps....16:12
warptrossethe thing is...16:12
AppiahX-Fade: any more information I could give to you that would help you fix the problem?16:12
djszapiwell, that option is only good for sort of "locking" the network, if you do not use the phone16:12
djszapiif there is no hefty mail sync or anything else, it should not matter, like in this special case.16:12
warptrossei have a wifi connection... and i use it in my PC and i can download at high speed16:13
warptrossebut with this phone not...16:13
warptrossealso i have a n900 and it works fine16:13
lizardowarptrosse, you mean, same URL gives different speeds between your PC and N9 ?16:13
warptrosseyea16:13
warptrosseand between n9 and n90016:13
lizardo(eliminating the case of transparent caching :)16:13
X-FadeAppiah: I guess the only way to debug it is to see what apt-get says from the console.16:14
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pawkyIs there any IRC channel for suggestions of improvement and bugs on the N9?16:18
pawkyI assume this forum is for third party developer discussions, right?16:20
Venemosee /topic16:20
matrixxpawky: it is, but there's a bugzilla for suggestions and bugs16:20
pawkyVenemo: well, read my last line..16:20
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pawkymatrixx: I assume there is, but it would be so much more convenient to go through a channel :-)16:21
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deramis using WiFi in auto connect mode more power consuming than always using 3G, if most of the time you are not in reach of any defined WiFi network?16:22
matrixxpawky: I know, we can all open up about anything here, but it doesn't mean something will happen :/16:22
deramI had significant increase in consumption when the phone was always searching for hotspot16:22
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pawkyGreat, my suggestion for improvment - Fix calender to be able to pre schedule events of other interval than day, week, month, year.. like every two weeks, ever first monday of the month etc...16:24
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pawkynot a to hard thing to accomplish in my point of view....16:25
pawkyand how about atleast make the basic calculator do 1/x  like     '5/='16:26
alteregopawky: you should really post feature requests in the bugzilla.16:27
alteregoI don't know if anyone from Nokia working on _that_ area of Harmattan is in here.16:27
alteregoYou're not going to get the right attention at all.16:27
pawkyalterego: link?16:29
pawkyalterego: thats why I asked first... :-)16:29
fluxI really wonder why these things are not specified from the get-go, it must be that every people I've discussed about the calendar on n900/n9 is that they would like more advanced intervals16:31
pawkyalterego: found it...16:31
pawkyflux: I  totally agree...16:32
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pawkyflux: I think in its current state its like a "demo" utility, not to be used in the real world...16:33
fluxof course, many such people can schedule it in their synced calendar server16:33
fluxthe downside being that they need to always create such events on the server16:33
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alteregoAnd that's not an interval, it's a set of calendar entries made from the date they're created to x time in the future.16:34
pawkyflux: True... that's what I thought was the reasone to not do anything great in the first place. But for us Linux users who have had a hazzle syncing phones since the dawn of time. Might jus twant this feature in the phone right away.16:34
alteregoNot a proper interval like "first month"16:34
fluxalterego, it may not be an even interval, but it does define how the event times relate to each other16:35
alteregoThe calendar app just like a lot of the apps are probably implemented or at least attempted to be implemented to such a level as their Symbian counterparts.16:35
fluxI would still call it an interval16:35
flux(unless you propose a better word ;))16:35
pawkyalterego: a PROPPER interval??? ehhh...16:35
alteregopawky: I was talking about the syncing with a server.16:35
alteregoWhich will download an ical card or whatever for every first monday of a month.16:35
pawkyalterego: Ahh.. ohhh... :-)16:35
fluxalterego, at least the events are related to each other in the phone, stil16:35
flux(right?-))16:36
alteregoNot sure, either way, it would be pretty easy to write a small app or something to create calendar entries for more complicated schedules ..16:36
fluxI would surely find use for that16:36
pawkyIt's ridiculous I cannot even choose an interval of every two weeks, which was what I needed when noticing this ridiculous limitation...16:36
alteregoIt can all be done in QML too ..16:36
fluxwhile at it, there should be way to add events with arbitrary alarm time16:36
pawkyflux: how do you mean?16:37
fluxyou can only choose from certain time periods, such as 12 hours, 24 hours, 1 day, 2 days, etc16:37
fluxhow about: at the preceding day at 18 o'clock16:37
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pawkyflux: yeah, right! noticed that one as well...16:37
pawkyits these things that differ a phone, or unit from being just some demo thing, to actually be something usefull for daily life.16:38
fluxwell, it has served me still decently16:38
pawkyIt's not really that I am going to change my life to only schedule things every week, month or year..... ;-)16:38
fluxfor example the alarm problem can be worked around by having (for example) two calendar entries16:38
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fluxand the intervals by creating or deleting events manually :)16:39
pawkyflux: but it sounds a bit stupid to me, having to put int two events for one task...16:39
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fluxsure, but if you do that, it does serve the purpose. not optimal. workable.16:40
fluxtry to be a bit more pragmatic ;)16:41
pawkyWell, lets hope the Calendar guy is listening in on this channel and discretely fixes these limitations :-)16:41
fluxwell, there's hoping. surely we still believe in Santa Claus as well!16:42
pawkyWell.. santa claus is going to replace my N9 for another one :-) It has taken like 4 weeks of heavy quarelling with Nokia, but now its going to happen :-)16:42
fluxbroken?16:43
alteregopawky: the calendar guys are not in this channel :P16:43
pawkyalterego: no wonder...16:44
alteregoLike I said, submit a bug :P16:44
pawkybut I know there are quite a few Nokia guys in here :-)16:44
alteregoOr write an "Advanced Calendar" app and profit :P16:44
alteregopawky: you know?16:44
alteregoI don't see that many ;)16:44
fluxI shall propose the worst name for it: MeeGlendar!16:44
pawkyalterego: yeah, I just get the feeling thats their concept.. but I hope not.16:44
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djszapihttp://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-active-two/16:45
alteregoNo, their concept is, we have all these bugs, which ones are show stoppers that really need to be sorted out ASAP.16:45
pawkywell I se at least .... lets see... 2...16:45
alterego:)16:45
alteregoI'm actually working on fixing issues in Harmattan myself.16:46
pawkyalterego: which ones? :-)16:46
alteregoBut I don't see any of the user space guys here.16:46
pawkyalterego: I am developing stuff for the web right now, will probably later on fix a phone version on the N916:47
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MohammadAGalterego, which problems?16:47
MohammadAGI want to fix the media player's lack of playlists but I lack a proper UI16:48
MohammadAGmainly one that can allow rearrangable lists16:48
pawkyMohammadAG: sounds great :-)16:48
alteregoI'm contracted to fix issues in Qt, specifically qt components.16:48
MohammadAGpawky, yeah, but I can't figure out how to do it in MTF16:49
MohammadAGand I hate QML :P16:49
MohammadAGand anything which falls under it, including alterego's contract16:49
pawkyMohammadAG: Then you have quite an upphill battle ahead of you ;-)16:49
MohammadAGor I could just port iOS's UIKIT16:50
MohammadAGUIKit*16:50
alterego:P16:50
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pawkyalterego: Can't we see these calendar bugs as QT issues? ;-)16:50
MohammadAGthe widget set it has is awesome16:50
alteregoQML is young but it's getting better and better :P16:50
MohammadAGQuickTime? no :P16:50
alteregopawky: no :P16:50
MohammadAGI hate young things16:50
alteregoThese aren't even "issues" they're feature enhancements :P16:50
MohammadAGincluding kids16:50
MohammadAG:P16:50
pawkyMohammadAG: young things... in all account? :-)16:51
MohammadAGyeah, I even hate myself16:51
* alterego chuckles16:51
MohammadAG:P16:51
pawkyMohammadAG: I assume you are young then...16:51
pawkyMohammadAG: I can assure you it gets a lot better when getting older :-)16:51
MohammadAG18 :P16:51
pawkyMohammadAG: The older you get, the more you appreciate youth :-)16:52
MohammadAGI find it nice that I'm not refreshing the Nokia Developer page for the lumia like the N95016:52
djszapiyou can always be young inside :-)16:52
MohammadAGpawky, I appreciate that I'm young, believe me :P16:52
SputMohammadAG: I know that feeling16:52
MohammadAGbut I miss my 17th year16:52
Sputeh, pawky16:52
Sputaaaah, to be 25 again16:52
MohammadAGdjszapi, lies, look at old phones16:52
pawkyMohammadAG: Do you want another one?16:52
AppiahX-Fade: so I enabled developers mode so I could debug, and developers mode was the only thing needed to install the update16:53
MohammadAGanother what?16:53
pawkydjzapi: I am very young and naive inside... ask my gf.... ;-)16:53
X-FadeAppiah: Ok, so it is our friend aegis..16:53
pawkySput: yeah... its getting a bit dusty...16:53
Appiahaegis? :)16:53
MohammadAGbe careful who you ask others to ask :P16:53
djszapipawky: you do not a gf to feel young inside, right ? :)16:54
pawkyMohammadAG: True :-)16:55
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pawkyMohammadAG: But one thing is true... the younger you are, the more you can put time into big programming project that might lead to fame and fortune...16:56
MohammadAGpawky, like I have time now? :P16:56
MohammadAGI practically have one hour a day16:56
pawkyMohammadAG: Well.. I can assure you, more time than you will have later on.. :-)16:56
pawkyMohammadAG: You lucky bastard, one hour a day ;-)16:56
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MohammadAGuni everyday from 8 till 416:57
djszapipawky: you have time for things you would like to. :)16:57
pawkydjszapi: damn, caught in the act.... you know about my reflasings... ;-)16:58
MohammadAGfind me an employer that doesn't need a certificate and can give me a proper amount of money for my life and I'll quit uni16:58
djszapipawky: do not forget to erase your emmc as well while reflashing ;-)16:58
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pawkydjszapi: Well... I really had to reflash, simply because the phone totally hanged on dnsmasq. Even if i was to send the unit back, i still had to be able to erase all user data...16:59
Stskeepsstay in uni, it's always a good fallback16:59
Stskeeps:P16:59
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AppiahX-Fade: well now I can submit to be a tester17:00
pawkydjszapi: and they are finally replacing this one for a new unit :-)  I told them to destroy this evil unit once and for all to make the world a safer and more reliable world. :-)17:01
pawky(reliable place  I meant)17:02
djszapiwarptrosse: Just tried setting developer mode on in a freshly flashed device: Download failed: developer-mode. Can't complete the download. Connection to the application provider was lost, try again later. So obviously there is something wrong with the repository as I said above more times :)17:04
pawkydjszapi: watch out! thats what I did, when it crashed17:05
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pawkydjszapi: That's what f...ed up the dnsmasq somehow...17:06
pawkydjszapi: so, maybe we will also see you in the near future breaking whatever digital rights limitation there migt be regarding flasing the N9....  :-D17:06
warptrossedjszapi thx!... maybe something with that... fortunately I finish the download... so I am now trying to upload an app to the phone... using QTSDK17:07
djszapiwarptrosse: I do not think it is related to the background process since that would not make too much sense. I think you got the repository in a good shape in certain period, that is all imho. It would be more logical  than the background process stuff.17:07
warptrosseyes, that for sure17:08
djszapipawky: I do not understand a word out of  your saying, sorry. You need to rephrase it or so.17:09
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pawkydjszapi: well, the reason why I needed to reflash the unit was after changing developer mode, and one of the downloads chrashed screwing up the dnsmasq on the unit. After that I had to reflash it to stop it from an endless reboot loop.17:11
djszapiI have never experienced such an issue myself...17:12
pawkydjszapi: and since you where lecturing me regarding breaking all kinds of laws and licenses if reflashing the unit with the newest update, i was just cationing you to not end up in the same situation... Thus watch out for the evil developer mode download crash... ;-)17:13
pawkydjszapi: Still cryptic?17:13
djszapiI will not live with illegal things that is for sure17:13
djszapisame reason why I have never used dWindows before my company paid it for me. I play with clean cards.17:14
pawkydjszapi: then watch out for  the loop of death, with the only solution to reflash...17:14
djszapiI have never experienced such an issue myself...17:14
pawkydjszapi: might be a bit naive, but if you are happy about it...17:14
djszapihuh ? naive to not make criminal stuff ?17:14
pawkydjszapi: you are a lucky guy... as probably most people then... :-)17:14
pawkydjszapi: well... I am very sure, Nokia could never ever press any charges regarding me reflashing the unit even if they wanted to. Because the intent was pure.17:16
pawkydjszapi: and there are quite a few grey areas in the world, which you would be excluded from if trying to stay 'pure' or dogmatic on this issue..17:16
djszapisorry, but you do not need to explain the criminal stuff is not that.17:17
djszapiyou cannot persuade me using illegal stuff, that is for entirely sure.17:17
pawkydjszapi: during my 22 year experience with computers, one does inevitably get into quite a few grey areas to solve a lot of headaces often the manufacturer or developer has created in the first place.17:18
djszapiyou had very awkward 22  years  then...17:18
pawkydjszapi: Well, i do not intend to...17:18
djszapithe bare minimum is calling the "manufacturer" or "vendor" whether they allow you to use that image on their devices...17:18
pawkydjszapi: well, interesting to the least :-)17:18
djszapitheir image*, that is a very bare minimum thing.17:18
pawkydjszapi: well that is if time does exist... many times when servers are down and hell's broken loose, its not an option... solve problem first, then take care of any legal implications..17:19
pawkydjszapi: customers first, you know...  :-)17:19
djszapiand even if someone does this illegal stuff, s/he should do it in the corner, not propagate it in the public...17:19
pawkydjszapi: it's all about the intent....17:20
djszapioh well, be proud of your continous illegal activity in the last 22 years...17:20
djszapiwe can finish this discussion..17:21
pawkydjszapi: you did not want to help me on the flashing bit, but another person here did give me the link that solved the issue. I am happy, Nokia is fairly happy. Phone has come out of its loop of death :-)17:21
pawkydjszapi: yes, i believe we can :-)17:21
SputlibQtSvg17:22
Sputups17:22
pawkydjszapi: It just, the world is not black or white, but shades of grey...17:22
djszapiplease stop it, I do not care about your illegal propaganda, please...17:22
pawkySput: Aha! and whats your IP address? :-D17:22
Sputhehehe17:23
Sputwrong window17:23
pawkydjszapi: illegal propaganda... right.....17:23
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alteregoFlashing is illegal?17:27
pawkyalterego: Don't start, you just cant win this discussion with djszapi....17:28
alteregoWell, djszapi should know better.17:29
alteregoIt's not illegal.17:29
pawkyalterego: well he does not.17:29
alteregoHe must be joking17:29
djszapinavingo imaging is damn illegal17:29
djszapibut we can ask Nokia, well actually let us do...17:29
alteregonavingo?17:29
pawkyalterego: a believe he is not... but if he is happy with it, then we continue to happily flash and he does not :-)17:29
djszapinavifirm17:29
djszapiright, writing to Nokia about it with the names who think it is okay...17:30
djszapilet us see...17:30
pawkysure, count me in :-)17:30
alteregonavifirm?17:30
pawkywith or without lawyer? :-)17:30
alteregoI don't even know what you're talking about ..17:30
pawkyalterego: just some flash variation..17:31
djszapialterego: why do you agree if you do not have the faintest idea what we are discussing ?17:31
alteregoWell, if it's not an official image then it's certainly warranty voiding17:31
CissWitillegal must depends on the country. I don't see how nokia can be related to any illegal issue about flashing.17:31
djszapiargue*17:31
alteregodjszapi: because illegal implies something quite specific.17:31
djszapialterego: please collect information before joining an arguement17:31
alteregoAnd at least in the UK, I can do what I want with devices I own.17:31
djszapino offense, just saying17:32
rm_workflashing your device is not *illegal*. you guys are arguing about nothing AFAICT17:32
alteregorm_work: that's what I read ;)17:32
rm_workjust read the whole scrollback17:32
djszapialterego: the guy flashed a non-Nokia distributed image, which is even if not completely illegal (I am not a lawyer), it is at least warranty void17:32
alteregoI don't know where this "navifirm" fits in ..17:32
djszapialterego: after this, he sent the device back to Nokia17:32
rm_worksomehow pawky just assumed that flashing his device was illegal >_>17:32
pawkydjszapi: In what part would the illegal part be if reflashing your unit to... say some other linux flavour of dignity?  What agreement have I broken that has been agreed upon when bying the phone?17:32
djszapias if nothing had happened...17:32
pawkyrm_work: I never assumed flashing my phone is illegal, no matter with what :-)17:33
djszapipawky: leaking NDA stuff is not illegal ?17:33
djszapiI mean ... you serious, as in really ?17:33
alteregodjszapi: still nothing illegal there, and Nokia were replacing N900s that were blatantly OC'd and died. It's Nokias fault if they can't be bothered to spend man hours on doing proper case-by-case investigations.17:33
djszapialterego: leaking NDA stuff /is/ illegal!17:33
pawkyrm_work: only for the one distributing it :-)17:33
alteregodjszapi: oh yes, that is definitely illegal.17:34
pawkynot for the one downloading and flashing it.17:34
alteregoBut only the person who leaked it.17:34
djszapialterego: and a Nokia image is definitely NDA17:34
pawkyalterego: and what agreement do you base this idea upon?17:34
alteregopawky: did you sign an NDA?17:34
pawkywell.. thus the one making it public breaks the NDA, not the one downloading and flashing it.17:34
alteregopawky: I agree17:34
pawkydjszapi: trust me on this one, you cannot win...17:34
djszapiso it is basically like torrenting books17:34
Stskeepsyou don't have any rights to a piece of software without a license17:35
djszapivery nice stuff really17:35
rm_workerrr17:35
rm_workdidn't the NDA end months ago?17:35
djszapilet us discuss on irc channels how to torrent stuff17:35
pawkydjszapi: no... torrents also distribute..  but FTP is ok..17:35
djszapiillegal torrents, just like navifirm...17:35
pawkydjszapi: for the downloader... not the one having the server..17:35
* Stskeeps gets the popcorn17:35
alteregoHeh17:35
rm_workwho mentioned navifirm? did I miss that somewhere?17:35
rm_worki can't CTRL-F in IRC unfortunately17:35
djszapiaand the sad thing is that this guy sent back the device as if nothing had happened17:35
rm_workoh wait, yes i can. sec17:35
djszapiso he basically cheated nokia17:35
* crevetor gets the coke17:35
pawkydjzapi: only because you also distribute when downloading a torrent. if only downloading you are legal..17:35
alteregodjszapi: Nokia cheated themselves.17:36
alteregoHe could havbe been returning it knowing he'd been naughty :P17:36
djszapipawky: please try to type my name correctly...it is the zillionth time you do not respect my name.17:36
rm_workok, so the first time navifirm was mentioned in my scrollback was when djszapi mentioned it, lol17:36
pawkydjszapi: does he, refer to me?17:36
pawkydjszapi: well in the heat of the moment.... you know... ;-)17:37
djszapialterego: this guy is basically cheated Nokia17:37
djszapiand he is even proud of himself17:37
djszapiand that bugs me a lot, he does not do it in a corner alone17:37
gridoesn't navifirm simply access nokia ftp servers?17:37
rm_workAFAICT pawky is flashing his device with the latest N9 firmware and was making fun of djszapi for saying it was illegal?17:37
djszapiit would be still /very/ unethical17:37
pawkyalterego: are you talking about me?17:37
rm_workI am loving this drama, i was SOOOO bored a minute ago :P17:37
djszapirm_work: cheating Nokia is really a big fun...17:37
* rm_work also gets some popcorn17:37
crevetorgodwin point, coming up.17:37
djszapiand getting illegally distributed and leaked stuff17:37
pawkyrm_work: well... I am not really making fun of anyone, I am just agreeing upon an earlier discussion that flashing is not illegal, just as downloading a flash is not.17:38
rm_workStskeeps: it's interactive entertainment!17:38
gri"NAVIFIRM downloads all this straight from Nokia's servers so you don't have to wait for people to post data packages and lists of product codes."17:38
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pawkyDownloading a torrent is though, as you also distribute it to others. But this is all about legality...17:38
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Stskeepsrm_work: only kind of interactive entertainment i'm interested in is something that involves bills and a stripper17:38
rm_workthe latest N9 firmware is available free and legally17:38
rm_workwtf17:38
rm_workStskeeps: ooo :P17:38
pawkydjszapi: I am still awaiting what agreement I have broken. As I am also a person who (within reason) highly respect legal matters.17:39
djszapiwell, let us report this guy for cheating Nokia17:39
rm_work<pawky> djszapi: and since you where lecturing me regarding breaking all kinds of laws and licenses if reflashing the unit with the newest update, i was just cationing you to not end up in the same situation... Thus watch out for the evil developer mode download crash... ;-)17:39
rm_workerr17:39
djszapiif he thinks it is cool, he does not need to be afraid.17:39
rm_workhow is he cheating nokia again?17:40
pawkyrm_work: well, i was just cautioning him to not end up in the same boot loop as I. Because the only solution was to reflash :-)17:40
rm_workhe enters developer mode, it crashes and boot-loops, he reflashes with the latest firmware17:40
rm_workwhere is there anything remotely illegal happening here17:40
pawkyrm_work: I am NOT CHEATING NOKIA17:40
rm_workthat sounds like my average day :P17:41
pawkyrm_work: and mine as well... as my N9 has a hardware failure and will be replaced... if Nokia doesn't shoot me first due to unfounded legal issues...17:41
rm_workwhat legal issues? they PROVIDE a flashing tool, lol17:42
pawkyrm_work: and you are very right on what i did. Phone broke: Fetched new flash update (as you cannot install older version) flashed it again. Everybody happy, except djszapi that is...17:42
djszapirm_work: show me a paga, Nokia page, where you see a link to the new image17:43
rm_work?17:43
djszapisome first page entry, like with the previous images.17:43
rm_workthe OTA one?17:43
djszapino17:43
rm_workcause the nokia dev page has the flasher and the image on it AFAIK17:43
djszapithe image that naivirm ships17:43
djszapishow me a Nokia first site link17:43
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djszapino17:43
rm_worknavifirm?17:43
djszapi1.1 was not there recently.17:43
pawkydjszapi: well i got it from one of your servers actually... a Nokia server :-)17:43
gridjszapi: novifirm downloads from nokia servers17:43
rm_worki don't even know who what navifirm is17:44
djszapigri: again, that is not really the question17:44
pawkyand i didnt use novifirm17:44
djszapigri: even if you keep repeating, that is a known stuff from the day first17:44
djszapieven when they shipped back then non released image17:44
gridjszapi: if nokia does not want users to download the image, they should not put it on a public ftp server17:44
djszapirm_work: more important question, show me a Nokia entry easily available like previously.17:44
rm_workthe first mention i see of navifirm is when YOU said it17:44
pawkygri: Well spoken!17:44
X-Fadedjszapi: Don't you think you can put your energy in more important things?17:45
djszapirm_work: again show me a link from the nokia main site.17:45
djszapiwhere Nokia advertises the image for downloading.17:45
djszapiif it is not there on purpose (since it was previously available)17:46
gridjszapi: show me the "lumia is waiting for you" mail? I don't have one and still ordered the phone ... is this now illegal?17:46
pawkydjszapi: again show me what agreement I have broken by downloading and reflashing my unit.17:46
djszapithey they would not definitely like to get it available17:46
rm_workdjszapi: how about, the device itself pops up a big giant icon that says "download me!"17:46
rm_workand/or, doesn't the windows NSU software download it?17:46
djszapiNSU != image.17:46
GeneralAntillesI feel like I warned djszapi about this.17:47
pawkyGeneralAntilles: :-)17:47
djszapiif Nokia would like to publish the image, they would put the image next to the updater with a link17:47
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djszapiand this is obviously not the case17:47
djszapispeaking of which, Nokia was even playing the proxy with non-released images earlier.17:48
GeneralAntillesI think he has me on ignore, though.17:48
pawkydjszapi: so, if Nokia distributes their flash image, maybe you should take up that legal battle with them instead? :-)17:48
djszapiNavifirm*17:48
GeneralAntillesSo there's no way I can warn him I'm bored with this line of argument and ready to ban him for the day.17:48
rm_workGeneralAntilles: I had him on ignore for a while, but i switched computers :(17:48
pawkyrm_work: LOL17:48
rm_workpawky: don't worry, he's just a troll17:49
alteregorm_work: screen ftw :)17:49
befordhow do you know NSU is not downloading the image? did you RE? EULA violation D:17:49
pawkyrm_work: I am starting to believe this myself as well..17:49
alteregoNSU does download the image, that's how we get the images for reflashing17:49
rm_workpawky: yeah, though sometimes it is fun to prod him to see what happens :P17:49
djszapialterego: which should be a hidden procedure obviously.17:49
alteregoAnd also the flasher 3.12 binary.17:50
pawkyrm_work: I agree ;-)17:50
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o GeneralAntilles17:50
djszapiexcept that Navifirm plays this proxy role.17:50
alteregodjszapi: should it be hidden? Has some one asked for it to be hidden?17:50
CissWitdjszapi: you talk about what nokia wants but no one cares. The point is to know what nokia allows, and you have not pointed anything about that.17:50
GeneralAntillesWould somebody warn him to desist from his present line of trolling for me?17:50
alteregodjszapi: you seem to be making assumptions about implicit discisions that "someone" has made.17:50
pawkyrm_work: But he is a programmer for Nokia as far as I know, which makes it a bit fun... :-)17:50
alteregodjszapi: GeneralAntilles wants to warn you to disist from your present line of trolling :P17:51
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: +b *!*@kde/developer/lpapp17:51
Stskeepsdjszapi is not a nokia employee, to my knowledge.17:51
rm_workdjszapi: so if the NSU downloads and flashes the image, it is legal -- but if this navifirm tool or whatever does the same thing, it is illegal?17:51
djszapialterego: if Nokia would like to publish it, why is it not next to the NSU link ?17:51
rm_worklolol17:51
pawkyalterego: Well I believe he should study law a bit more...17:51
alteregodjszapi: because it's more effort17:51
CissWitdjszapi: for example, nokia do not publish the sources of the kernel on their site, but they allow us to distribute it17:51
alteregodjszapi: a single executable is easier for users to use, and why bother when they're your only target audience anyway.17:51
djszapialterego: more effort to put a link in there, if they would like to publish the image ? :) Sounds funny.17:51
*** djszapi was kicked by GeneralAntilles (djszapi)17:51
CissWitat least, sources concerned by the GPL17:51
alteregoWe have instructions on extracting flash and images out of the downloadable NSU.17:51
*** GeneralAntilles sets mode: -o GeneralAntilles17:52
alteregoOh well17:52
GeneralAntillesRight then.17:52
rm_workpawky: my theory is that he's actually a plant, put in place to single-handedly drag down the community so the MeeGo/Maemo program will die and Nokia can move on to win7 :P17:52
GeneralAntillesSomebody remind me to take that off in 24 hours.17:52
* rm_work forgets17:52
alteregoHeh17:52
alteregoHeh17:52
pawkyrm_work: I believe we will have to fight him to the teeth then. :-P17:52
rm_workah well, back to boring work17:53
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* rm_work sighs17:53
alteregoHey w00t17:53
w00to/17:53
GeneralAntilles'morning, w00t.17:53
w00t\o17:53
w00thow're you all?17:53
alteregoI'm poorly17:53
alteregoBut otherwise okay :P17:53
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GeneralAntillesMuch better than I was 5 minutes ago, actually.17:54
alteregoThough fighting process at the moment.17:54
* GeneralAntilles whistles a tune and gets breakfast.17:54
pawkyalterego:but I believe he is working at Nokia support17:54
rm_worklol17:54
alteregopawky: I don't think he works for Nokia at all.17:54
X-FadeHe's a subcontractor working on security framework.17:54
pawkyalterego: well.. in some earlier discussion I presume he told me he did, but will quit soon..17:54
pawkyX-Fade: for Nokia then.. right?17:55
alteregoX-Fade: that kind of explains his general attitude towards things ;) and his personality.17:55
X-Fadepawky: yes17:55
alteregoI suspected he had something to do with AEGIS, but wasn't sure whether he was an internal or not.17:55
pawkyalterego: well.. he is quite a bit dogmatic about things. I presume he is very young. When I was twenty I could also go to war for my beliefs.. now when being a bit olders. I let others go ahead in line..17:56
alteregopawky: I don't think he's _that_ young :P17:56
alteregoI just think he's a bit pedantic.17:56
alteregoAnyway, this conversation is stale.17:56
pawkyalterego: well his spirit wanting to fight a loosing battle not thinking ahead might suggest it, yes17:56
alteregoLets talk about your advanced scheduling app :)17:57
gri26 he is17:57
alteregoLike, when are you going to release it in to Ovi :P17:57
BrettQadvanced scheduling app? that sounds fun!17:57
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crevetorBTW guys I think I saw something somewhere about how to debug an app that starts ok while launched through the CLI but doesn't work the same when launched via the icon. Does anybody have a better memory than me ?17:59
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gricrevetor: would also be interested in this, I sometimes have problems with different variants of launching my app18:01
crevetorIt's actually really weird since I launch it with exactly what's in my Exec line in my .desktop file18:02
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griwhat exactly does not work?18:03
gricrashes / missing aegis credentials / ..?18:04
crevetorgri: It looks like some missing aegis credential (the app doesn't display the camera view) but if it were it would also complain when launching from the CLI18:04
gridoes your app use the invoker?18:05
crevetorgri: yes18:05
grirun "initctl restart xsession/applauncherd" as root and try again18:05
griwarning: this might kill some open applications18:06
crevetorgri: nope still no luck18:07
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Ans5ihopefully here are people that know aegis, if they aren't already kicked out.18:08
pawkyalterego: I am in, when it comes to advanced schedulers :-)18:09
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warptrossedoes anyone had the following problem while trying to upload an app to the phone? ==> http://pastebin.com/kPfB2CPq19:18
alteregowarptrosse: Can you test the connection by going to: Tools (menu) -> Options -> Linux Devices -> Test (button on right of modal window)19:22
warptrosselog=> http://pastebin.com/S3mvd0tY19:23
alteregoNow try the deploy and run phase again for your app.19:24
warptrossesame error19:24
alteregoWhat version of Qt Creator are you using?19:24
warptrosse2.4.019:24
warptrossefrom QtSDK19:25
alteregoHeh, newer than mine :)19:25
alteregoWhen did you install the SDK?19:25
warptrossea month ago... but i did an update yesterday :(19:26
warptrossethe QtSDK is 1.1.419:27
alteregoHrm, well I'm updating mine, if it makes mine stop working I think we know what the issue is ;)19:27
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warptrossehehe19:27
alteregoAnd this is N9 or N950?19:27
warptrossen919:27
alteregoLatest firmware version?19:28
warptrosseyes19:28
alteregoPR1.1 (20.2011.40-4) ?19:28
warptrosse20.2011.40-419:28
alteregom'kay.19:28
alteregoRight, just checking now my sdk has updated.19:29
warptrossean yes pr 1.119:29
warptrosse*and19:29
alteregoHrm, worked for me :/19:32
warptrosse:(19:32
warptrosseany suggestion?19:33
alteregoNot sure I can help anymore, except maybe suggest uninstalling and reinstalling the SDK19:33
alteregoThough before youw do that, delete your N9 target19:33
alteregoAnd recreate it, are you using password or SSH key authentication?19:33
warptrossessh key19:33
alteregoTry using the SDK tool and password authentication.19:34
warptrosseok19:34
warptrosselet me see19:34
alteregoI think that's the only difference we should have :/19:34
warptrossesame..19:35
warptrosseit connects to the phone...19:37
warptrossebut there is a problem with sftp19:37
warptrossewhen trying to upload19:37
alteregoHrm,19:38
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alteregoTry disabling and re-enabling developer mode and restarting the N919:38
alteregoOtherwise there's not much more I can suggest :(19:38
alteregoAnd I'm heading off now.19:38
warptrossepk19:38
warptrossethx19:38
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warptrossemmm... i switched steps in the project configuration... from "Deploy Debian package via SFTP upload using device: Nokia N9" to "Upload files via SFTP using device: Nokia N9" and now it gives me a more clear error:19:49
warptrossemkdir: can't create directory '/opt/holopicture/': Permission denied19:50
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DocScrutinizer[2011-12-14 16:52:19] <GeneralAntilles> Somebody remind me to take that off in 24 hours.19:59
DocScrutinizerI won't19:59
DocScrutinizer;-P19:59
DocScrutinizerhell, if even X-Fade wonders what's wrong with this guy...20:00
DocScrutinizersee, that's where you end when doing too much security business20:01
DocScrutinizerobviously that stuff can drive you mad20:02
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* DocScrutinizer opens chanlog to read the funny parts that got missed due to his /ignore20:02
ieatlintawww... looks like i missed drama20:07
pawkyDocScruitinizer: Well I hope he didn't get banned due to my discussion with him. I believe its a sane discussion even if he is a bit to dogmatic about things.20:07
ieatlintit's a near daily argument20:08
MohammadAGk20:08
MohammadAGfuck windows20:08
GeneralAntillespawky, yes, it's a historical issue20:08
* MohammadAG goes to linux to do some MTF stuff for the N95020:08
ieatlintboth his thoughts on aegis and his criticism of people using navifirm20:08
GeneralAntillespawky, I've issued warnings.20:08
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, right on, brother.20:08
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, I ordered my Lumia, have you?20:08
pawkyGeneralAntilles: Well he is very sad now, and accusing me for making him getting banned.20:08
* MohammadAG disappears20:08
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, did.20:09
ieatlintMohammadAG: don't worry, it'll neve make it through customs for you :P20:09
MohammadAGieatlint, it's no DDP-exclusive device20:09
GeneralAntillespawky, ignore it, please.20:09
MohammadAGthey have no reason to hold it :P20:09
GeneralAntillesIt had nothing to do with you. Feel free to quote me. ;)20:09
ieatlinti've experienced that specific "should" when shipping things to .il first hand20:09
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ieatlinthahaha, someone's mass-email recruiter script needs tweaking "I am the account manager responsible for UNKNOWN, I would be pleased to address any questions you may have. "20:11
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DocScrutinizerhe go tbanned due to statements like >> <djszapi> right, writing to Nokia about it with the names who think it is okay...<< THIS is exactly a statement that is odd in so many ways - me being a German anti-fascist being only one of them20:11
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ieatlintoh, he should add my name20:11
ieatlinti haven't used navifirm, but i think it's ok20:11
ieatlintwhich is enough?20:12
DocScrutinizerI hope he generally adds mine, just for good practice20:12
DocScrutinizerwhat a f*cking "blockwart"20:12
ieatlintthe shame is he definitely worked on aegis, and could be useful for info on it (even just general within the lines support)20:13
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DocScrutinizerI'll call the health care in his town, telling them he thinks high promiscuity without condom is nice, and he looks and behaves scarey lately20:14
ieatlintsounds like my home town, san francisco20:14
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: which he actually almost never delivered on20:15
ieatlinttrue..20:16
ZogG_laptopit is so annoying that nokia closes bugs with no explanations "no plans" for front camera support20:16
DocScrutinizerall his "help" always (when it appeared on my screen) was like "No, you idiot don't get aegis concept!" "if you can't do it due to aegis policy, it's not worth gettinmg done - find another device!"20:16
ZogG_laptopwhy the f i have it htere and why i paid for it than?20:16
ZogG_laptopsame for led20:16
ZogG_laptopwhy the f i have it if it doesn't work20:17
ZogG_laptopthey say u have info on standby screen20:17
ieatlintbecause it sounds nicer than "everyone who knew how that worked quit/changed teams"20:17
DocScrutinizerI'm all for extending that +b for longer than the 24h suggetsed by GeneralAntilles20:18
ieatlinteh, let him back20:19
ieatlintrepeat as necessary20:19
DocScrutinizerthat's already a sequel20:19
ieatlintah, missed other times he's gotten banned then20:19
DocScrutinizerhe's been warned at least 5 times by now, and at least one time got a +q20:19
ieatlintapparently i miss all the drama i don't cause20:20
ZogG_laptopfunny, and if phone is not in front of me i can see led while i can't see the the screen20:20
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, yeah, first ban.20:20
GeneralAntillesI already said 24h20:20
ZogG_laptopi want to have video calls as i had in specs : front camera20:20
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: hey20:20
GeneralAntillesIf we need to repeat, well, it's simple enough.20:20
GeneralAntillesZogG_laptop, howdy.20:20
ieatlintapparently someone is copy/pasting things to him :P20:20
DocScrutinizerI'd like to do that, but I'm reluctant to get him off my /ignore20:20
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: i remember i argued with you on forum20:21
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: who was banned?20:21
GeneralAntillesSounds like me.20:21
DocScrutinizerdjizz20:21
ZogG_laptophe is ok20:21
DocScrutinizerfor again threatening people (on a general basis) and for general trolling and spreading BS20:21
ZogG_laptopmaybe little asocial but ok20:22
DocScrutinizerNO, this is NOT OK20:22
ZogG_laptophelped me a few times actually20:22
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: sometimes you have different moods and i can see it over here =)20:22
DocScrutinizerthreatening people is sth I DO NOT ACCEPT20:23
DocScrutinizer(unless it's *me* who's threatening ;-P)20:23
DocScrutinizerhe's been warned several times about that particular misbehaviour20:23
DocScrutinizer<djszapi> right, writing to Nokia about it with the names who think it is okay...20:24
DocScrutinizersure ban for our friend, after he already shouted at and scared absolutely innocent users in private query, then eventually noticed he had the wrong addressee20:25
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ZogG_laptopM4rtinK: the guy with threads on meego forums20:25
pawkyDocScruitinizer: Well, I didn't take it to hard, its not really that he could get to me and report me....20:26
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: btw have you seen wazd idea for n9 browser?20:26
DocScrutinizersure20:26
DocScrutinizerbut it's poisoning the mood in this chan20:26
M4rtinKZogG_laptop: what ?20:26
DocScrutinizernope20:26
ZogG_laptopdamn i lost what happened here20:26
ZogG_laptoppawky: why would someone would report on you20:26
* DocScrutinizer back to chanlog, to evalute the 24h will suffice or not20:27
pawkyZogG_laptop: Well, its a bit funny i must admit... Simply because I fixed my endlessly looping phone by downloading the latest firmware and reflashing it :-)20:27
ZogG_laptopsoooooo?20:27
ZogG_laptopu can't flash?20:28
ZogG_laptopor was it PR_over9000 that would be released only in 2015?20:28
pawkyDocScruitinizer: wel djszapi didn't offend me personally. So I am ok with him comming back again enforcing the law  ;-)20:28
DocScrutinizerno, that's been a ban'able subject particularly for him20:29
pawkyZogG_laptop: Well, I believe it all must have started of on some missunderstanding.. but my N9 phone had an updated firmware from November, and i didnt have that firmware. So i asked around for it, and boom, there djszapi was telling me all about the illegal part of it all...20:29
ZogG_laptopso sup20:29
DocScrutinizerthis is NOT a Nokia channel, and he mustn't try to enforcy any assumed Nokia policy here - and particularly he has to stay away from threats, esp when they are based on BS20:30
ZogG_laptopmeh20:30
pawkyZogG_laptop: funny you mention it, they actually discreetely hinted me of to download the firmware using navifirm.. but I only use linux...20:30
pawkyZogG_laptop: and in the end, it can never (in sweden) be illegal to download something from a public server, and flash whatever unit you like... as long as its for personal use.20:31
ZogG_laptoppawky: btw how did you flash with no windows?20:31
pawky:ZogG_laptop: magic my friend :-)20:31
ZogG_laptoppawky: i think it's ligal to flash phone anyway20:32
pawkyZogG_laptop: or... download through FTP  (from Nokia) and flasher :-)20:32
ZogG_laptoppawky: i used NSU for windows20:32
pawkyZogG_laptop: Gosh! Not again....20:32
pawkyZogG_laptop: No, its NOT illegal... you will certainly void your warranty though..20:32
pawkyZogG_laptop: If they catch you that is... ;-)20:32
DocScrutinizerpawky: (can never be illegal) that's exactly the point where djizz starts to call you an idiot basically, and will get consequently banned on *any* statement he utters regarding the whole topic, as you're right end he's wrong, still he cals others idiots20:33
DocScrutinizerand since he feels all others think he's wrong, he tries to enforce his point of view by threats against those who think different20:34
DocScrutinizerand that's a ban'able behaviour on all freenode at least20:34
DocScrutinizerprobably on all IRC20:34
DocScrutinizerand in life at large as well20:35
pawkyDocScruitinizer: true, but it is good he states these things so others can point out what is legal and what is not :-)20:36
DocScrutinizereven threatening $Nokia core employees20:36
pawkyDocScruitinizer:  Yes, it is funny at times. But quite amuzing as well :-)20:36
DocScrutinizerno, as users on irc usually don't follow closely enough to be able to tell he's just uttering BS20:36
DocScrutinizerthey just get scared20:36
pawkyDocScruitinizer: True.20:37
DocScrutinizerand this is probably his plan20:37
DocScrutinizerso my plan is to ban him infinitely20:37
DocScrutinizeras he's been warned about it, several times20:37
pawkyDocScruitinizer: Not really sure what his plan is, but as long as he keeps fairly in line with the topic, it migh actually be a good thing when he puts forward such things. So others can disprove it :-)20:38
DocScrutinizerand he even claims Quim Gill asked him to do exactly that - I don't buy that either20:38
M4rtinKwell, there are already many obstacles for new developers and scaring them from the main developer channel is really not needed20:38
pawkyM4rtinK: a fully agree upon that. Maybe he was just a bit of topic.20:39
DocScrutinizerbottom line - I'm not going to remind GeneralAntilles to remove that ban20:39
pawkyDocScruitinizer: The funny thing is, that he actually helped me get the right information by actually putting forward his oppinions. This way another one gave me the information needed to fix my phone... :-)20:42
pawkyDocScruitinizer: this is a message from him:<djszapi> I would really like to apologize from anybody, if it sounded like threatening because I did not mean to say that. I was concerning the legal check to make sure. I cannot tell it to others, but that is how I feel it.20:43
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ZogG_laptoppawky: i said it's not illigal = it's ligal20:44
pawkyZogG_laptop: :-)20:44
ieatlinteh, he is not a lawyer, and neither are any of us20:44
pawkyieatlint: how do you know? :-)20:44
DocScrutinizerhe's a blockwart20:44
ieatlintnavifirm is in a legal gray area20:44
ieatlintpawky: ok, well if someone in here is a lawyer, they're not *your* lawyer20:45
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DocScrutinizer<djszapi> right, writing to Nokia about it with the names who think it is okay...20:45
M4rtinKpawky: that's called "Streisand effect" :)20:45
pawkyieatlint: LOL20:45
pawkyM4rtinK: Streisand effect? :-)20:45
GeneralAntillesSo, the ban isn't going away until tomorrow.20:45
GeneralAntillesAny discussion in the mean time is rather moot.20:46
GeneralAntillesSo I'm going to state my (non-channel-operator) preference that everybody move on to a new topic.20:46
DocScrutinizersomebody reporting to somebody what I "think" is upsetting me to a point where I hope to meet that person in a dark forest20:47
M4rtinKpawky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect - an attempt of removing online information or banning some activity20:47
M4rtinKresulting in everyone knowing the information and doing the activity :)20:47
DocScrutinizerand I'm off now, so listen to GeneralAntilles20:47
DocScrutinizer:-D20:47
pawky:-)20:48
pawkyi need to do some work..20:48
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: i feel you're being impolite.  i'm collecting your name and the names of others to inform nokia20:49
ieatlinti'm sure they'll have harsh words, and suggestions that you be kinder20:50
pawkyeatlint: and who might be hiding behind this alias you think?... ;-)20:50
ieatlinti'm not an alias20:50
ieatlinti have my own special version of being offensive20:51
ieatlintothers in here can vouch for that20:51
pawkyeatlint: ohh, no not another one..20:51
pawkyeatlint: Now what exactly are you going to collect? a bunch of alias names? and tell Nokia what? hi, hi have a bunch of odd aliases here that might discuss NDA infringements?20:52
ZogG_laptopieatlint: that was fat20:53
ieatlintno no20:53
ZogG_laptopieatlint: and anyway DocScrutinizer is bot... Nokia's one. so he collect not you =)20:53
ieatlinthe used to be openmoko's bot20:53
pawkythat was a cool phone :-)20:54
pawkyexcept for it never really working..20:54
ZogG_laptopieatlint: is eating other bots and grow larger he would google soon20:55
ieatlinti made phone calls with it20:55
pawkyi barely succeeded with one..21:00
pawkyI had the.. A02..  with a known hardware issue21:00
pawkybut it was cool to put debian in it :-)21:00
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pawkya bit funny, everytime when I buy a cool phone I end up getting the ones with hardware issues, the openmoko, the N9... ;-)21:05
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ieatlinttry an iphone :P21:05
ZogG_laptopwhat is issue with n9? or you mean your ones had those )21:06
ieatlintyeah, i've only really known software issues with the n921:06
ieatlintwell, one design flaw21:06
pawkywell.. its a secret hardware issue, but it will be replaced in the days to come :-)21:06
ieatlintwith the microusb flap breaking21:06
ZogG_laptophaha21:07
ieatlintso waiting for stock to refresh before ordering another n9?21:07
ZogG_laptoptheis microusb breaking again?21:07
pawkyhuh.. well, i should but i need a phone..21:08
ieatlintZogG_laptop: the flap21:08
ieatlintnot the connector21:08
ZogG_laptopcoz it's stupid to make it like that21:08
luke-jrwhy need a phone?21:08
ZogG_laptopslide inside or something woud clever21:08
ZogG_laptopluke-jr: \o/21:08
pawkyi believe it has to do with the graphic chip.. or memory..21:09
* luke-jr is happily running Gentoo/KDE on his N900 :P21:09
ieatlintthe way it's breaking for people is not what i expected though21:09
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rm_workLOL21:09
rm_workdjszapi> hi21:09
rm_work<djszapi> just asked 4 internals so far, not managers though yet, but they also said like I previously heard internally. Navifirm is not really legit.21:09
rm_work<djszapi> I will ask top managers tomorrow about to make sure about the legal check on my end.21:09
ieatlinti thought people would just nudge the phone into another object while the flap was open and it'd break21:09
rm_workfrom my PM21:09
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rm_workwhen i got back from lunch just now21:09
* rm_work lulz21:10
MohammadAGnot legal?21:10
MohammadAGit uses Nokia's URLs21:10
rm_workah did you miss it earlier? :P21:10
rm_workhe was trolling about navifirm flashing being illegal21:10
ieatlintit's probably more accurate to say it's not illegal than it's legal :P21:10
MohammadAGnavifirm flashing?21:10
MohammadAGnavifirm just downloads images21:10
MohammadAGthe way you flash them is illegal21:11
rm_workusing navifirm to get the image so you can flash the device21:11
MohammadAGif using pheonix or JAF21:11
rm_workMohammadAG: err, no it isn't :P they provide the flasher util...21:11
MohammadAGif using flasher it's totally legal21:11
rm_workyeah21:11
MohammadAGrm_work, they?21:11
rm_workNokia21:11
MohammadAGyeah, then it's legal21:11
rm_workyeah21:11
rm_workit was a funny 15 minutes or so21:11
MohammadAGthey [navifirm devs] 're not hosting the files21:11
rm_workbut then GA kicked him21:12
rm_workso it got boring again21:12
pawkyLOL21:12
rm_workvery sad21:12
ieatlinteh, we don't need to rehash it all21:12
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MohammadAGGA kicked dj?21:12
ieatlintnavifirm exists, and no one is going to realistically face reprocussions for personal use with it in my opinion21:12
MohammadAGonly party poopers kick DJs21:13
MohammadAGscrew you GeneralAntilles :P21:13
rm_worklol21:13
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: stop trolling, there's no such thing like illegal flashing21:13
DocScrutinizerunless your device is a loaner21:13
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I'm not trolling21:13
MohammadAGusing JAF is illegal21:13
rm_workjust discussing trolls21:13
MohammadAGsince you're faking a USB dongle21:13
rm_workJAF?21:13
rm_workdon't even know what that is21:13
MohammadAGNavifirm exists because of Symbian21:14
MohammadAGnot Maemo21:14
rm_workeven so, not sure why it would be illegal21:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: illegal for whom?21:14
rm_workit all sounds like FUD to me21:14
DocScrutinizershow me the § that will put me to prison for doing that21:14
MohammadAGwith it you can flash other regions' images to your Symbian phone21:14
pawkyguys... maybe we should simply ban the word illegal.. :-)21:14
rm_worklol yeah21:14
pawkythen we wont have any problems here anymore :-)21:14
MohammadAGJAF that is21:14
MohammadAGthere's also Pheonix21:14
rm_workgo to debian-legal if you want to be a legality troll :P21:14
MohammadAGboth need a "jig"21:14
MohammadAGthere are cracks to emulate the jig and allow USB flashing21:15
DocScrutinizerpawky: it's already banned - alas my autoresponder failed miserably21:15
rm_workOTOH,  listening to the debian-legal guys is HILARIOUS21:15
rm_workit reminds me why we can't have nice things21:15
MohammadAGbtw21:16
MohammadAGdoes the mic need some aegis credential?21:16
DocScrutinizernope21:16
DocScrutinizerafaik21:16
MohammadAGI need PocketSphinx for something I'm planning and I fear pulseaudio might fuck me21:16
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: music recognizing tool?21:16
MohammadAGoh cool21:16
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, fudk that21:16
MohammadAGit never worked21:16
MohammadAGwe need an acoustics engine21:16
ZogG_laptopi tried it didnt21:16
MohammadAGMidomi/SoundHound have one21:17
rm_workI would love to have something for music recognition21:17
rm_worklike, what was that android app?21:17
MohammadAGSoundHound21:17
MohammadAGShazam is old-skool21:17
rm_workah yeah Shazam is what i was thinking of21:17
ZogG_laptopshazam is qt and nokia can have it for free but same story as with n90021:17
rm_workit worked AMAZINGLY well21:17
MohammadAGno21:17
MohammadAGtry SoundHound on iOS21:17
MohammadAGit can pick a song up in 5s21:17
ZogG_laptopsoundhoud is better man21:17
MohammadAGor 321:17
rm_workdon't have an iOS device21:17
* DocScrutinizer coughs, spits, and switches to another chan, where not so much of this terrible legalese shit is discussed21:18
MohammadAGandroid"?21:18
rm_worki have a Galaxy Tab21:18
MohammadAGthen try soundhound21:18
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: so are we getting cool apps from you on n9?21:18
rm_workoh is it both?21:18
MohammadAGyes21:18
rm_workk21:18
rm_workwill try21:18
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, planning something like Siri21:19
MohammadAGbut sucks less21:19
rm_worklol21:19
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: if you need help i would be glad too21:19
ieatlintwill it tell me where i can get an abortion then?21:19
rm_workrofl21:19
MohammadAGYes21:19
ieatlintexcellent21:19
MohammadAGit'll respond with fuck off to How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood21:20
rm_workIE, just use Google instead of some crappy internal search engine?21:20
rm_work:P21:20
MohammadAGSiri uses Google21:20
rm_workthey said it didn't21:20
MohammadAGthey lie21:20
rm_workin the piece I heard about the abortion issue on NPR21:20
ieatlintwhoa, apple wouldn't lie21:21
ZogG_laptopNPR?21:21
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rm_workNational Public Radio21:21
pawkywhat happened to that .. alian dalvik softy to make it possible to run android stuff on a N900 etc?21:21
pawkywaporware?21:21
rm_workit's like what BBC News Radio is, but in the US21:21
MohammadAGpawky, it's for OEMs21:21
rm_workthey actually play the BBC feed during night hours21:21
ieatlintyeah, i don't think siri uses google for the voice transcription... they might in part for the search results21:22
ieatlintbut it definitely goes through an apple server for much of it21:22
rm_workwell, the NPR piece specifically said they didn't use google, in the interview with one of the engineers21:22
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i want whatsapp21:22
rm_workbut they could have lied i guess? >_>21:22
pawkyMohammadAG: but does it exist?21:22
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i head an idea how to make altwernative21:22
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MohammadAGZogG_laptop, we don't need mroe alternatives that no one will use21:25
RST38hMoo, Mohammad, all21:25
MohammadAGieatlint, voice recog is something custom by Apple21:25
RST38hrm_you: ehlo!21:25
RST38hwhois wazd21:25
MohammadAGsearching where the nearest baby store is through Google21:25
MohammadAGmoo RST38h21:25
ieatlintyeah, sounds about right21:26
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RST38hMohammad: Have you reunited with your n950?21:26
ieatlintwith some filtering to insert some of their own results at times21:26
MohammadAGRST38h, last Thursday21:26
RST38hyahoo21:26
MohammadAGRST38h, I've also ordered my fake N921:26
MohammadAGthe one with the camera button21:26
RST38hMohammad: Same here21:26
RST38hMohammad: Although it will be useless for me unless there is NDK21:26
SpeedEvil""21:26
MohammadAGieatlint, you can use a SiriProxy server21:26
MohammadAGto add custom commands21:27
MohammadAGlike Man In The Middle commands21:27
SpeedEvilSHR or mer port would be awesome, but probably unlikely21:27
RST38hhehe21:27
RST38hDo not see why not21:27
SpeedEvilSigning and stuff.21:27
SpeedEvilThe hardware looks good.21:28
RST38hthese eventually get broken21:28
SpeedEvilNot always.21:28
SpeedEvilAnd mostly due to screwups due to not employing people with a clue.21:28
ieatlintRST38h: i hear the ndk comes sometime next year21:28
ieatlintbut you can probably just expect the device to overall be a disappointment21:29
SpeedEvilSpend 50K or so on bruce schnieder.21:29
SpeedEvilAnd you can eliminate obvious issues.21:29
ieatlinthalf the ram, and enough managed code that the extra 40% cpu speed will feel like nothing, especially when it starts swapping21:29
MohammadAGWindows pages, doesn't swap21:30
RST38hSpeed: let us hope there are preciously few people with clues left there =)21:30
luke-jrhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbTEVbQLC8s21:30
RST38hMohammad: So does Linux21:30
MohammadAGLinux swaps, doesnt' page  :P21:30
RST38hMohammad: Although we still, erroneously, call it swapping21:30
SpeedEvilRST38h: Works for me.21:30
RST38hMohammad: On PDP8, maybe21:30
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I'd port Gentoo, but Nokia ignored my N950 request. :/21:30
ieatlintthat was probably just a personal slight against you21:31
RST38hor [shudder] Gentoo21:31
ieatlinthey now, i'm running gentoo right now21:32
luke-jrieatlint: lol21:32
DocScrutinizerso was there a way to track status of order based on info from $Nokia about "Order: OID-095634566" ?21:32
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: when it ships, you get an email with the tracking code21:32
DocScrutinizerDDP21:32
ieatlint(no, mine hasn't shipped)21:32
DocScrutinizer:nod:21:32
rm_workMohammadAG: fake N9?21:33
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rm_workRST38h: m0021:33
ieatlintthe prostitute 80021:33
rm_workluke-jr: do you frequent the gentoo IRC?21:34
luke-jrrm_work: not the main channel; too many n00bs there21:34
rm_worklol21:34
luke-jrrm_work: #gentoo-embedded yes21:34
ieatlinti would, but i'm too busy -O9999'ing21:34
rm_worki always found #gentoo to be quite helpful when i had issues21:35
DocScrutinizerRST38h: (get broken) hah, industry learnt during last few years how signing has to be done, I'm not expecting many rootings nowadays21:35
rm_workeven when I ran debian, if i had generic linux issues, i'd ask in #gentoo because the debian guys were all tards21:35
rm_work(that was after I ran Gentoo for several years)21:35
ZogG_laptoprm_work: i help there sometimes a little bit and get help21:35
Sazpaimonany javascript experts here21:35
luke-jrlol21:35
Sazpaimon##javascript has been completely unhelpful21:35
the-bossSazpaimon: Error: "#javascript" is not a valid command.21:35
luke-jrSazpaimon: what's the question?21:36
rm_workSazpaimon: dunno about "expert" but i can try to help21:36
ZogG_laptoprm_work: though i was banned for nothing once there21:36
Sazpaimonhttp://jsfiddle.net/7sHqu/21:36
DocScrutinizerieatlint: its name is "hooker800"21:36
Sazpaimonthis works in chrome, but not firefox21:36
Sazpaimoni get why firefox is failing21:36
ieatlintZogG_laptop: did you threaten people with legal reprocussions too?21:36
Sazpaimonbut who is right here21:36
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: my bad, i guess prostitute does a bit too clinical21:37
DocScrutinizerindeed, incorrect translation of lumia21:37
ZogG_laptoprm_work: you should check funtoo -that one is the friendliest21:37
ieatlinteither way, you'll wake up with your wallet empty and a strange burning sinsation that won't go away21:38
rm_worklol21:38
DocScrutinizerhe4hehe21:38
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: still here?21:38
luke-jrSazpaimon: that shouldn't work IIRC21:38
DocScrutinizeragain21:38
MohammadAG##STDs21:38
the-bossMohammadAG: Error: "#STDs" is not a valid command.21:38
rm_work#lolwut21:39
the-bossrm_work: Error: "lolwut" is not a valid command.21:39
Sazpaimonluke-jr, why not? it works without the try statement21:39
DocScrutinizer#topic shutup meegobot21:39
the-bossDocScrutinizer: Error: "topic" is not a valid command.21:39
rm_workwhy are you *defining a function* inside a try statement21:39
ieatlint"free dose of penicillin with every lumia phone"21:39
rm_worknot that I understand why it'd fail, i just don't understand WHY21:39
M4rtinK#this is a comment21:39
the-bossM4rtinK: Error: "this" is not a valid command.21:39
Sazpaimonrm_work, I'm not doing this for real21:40
M4rtinK##21:40
rm_worki may be missing the point21:40
the-bossM4rtinK: Error: "#" is not a valid command.21:40
Sazpaimonits just some inconsistency i ran into with some other code21:40
luke-jrSazpaimon: functions cannot be defined inside try blocks, I think21:40
luke-jrSazpaimon: FWIW, it works in KJS, but fails in SEE21:40
DocScrutinizernot long and friggin supybot gets a kick as well21:40
DocScrutinizerI don't see what it's doing here anyway21:40
ZogG_laptop#help21:41
the-bossZogG_laptop: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.21:41
rm_worklol21:41
DocScrutinizerexcept bitching about "...is not a command"21:41
ZogG_laptoplike a boss21:41
ZogG_laptopbut i saw two bots talking21:41
luke-jrSazpaimon: also, I would think you can't use a function before it's defind21:41
DocScrutinizer_MeeGoBot_: help21:41
_MeeGoBot_DocScrutinizer: help info /msg'ed21:41
Sazpaimonluke-jr, no21:41
Sazpaimonunless that function is a variable21:41
Sazpaimonfor example, a("test"); var a = function(x) { return x; } should fail21:42
Sazpaimonapparently firefox treats all function declarations in try blocks as variables21:42
DocScrutinizer#ping21:43
the-bosspong21:43
rm_workit probably doesn't unroll try-blocks (or pre-parse them, or whatever the right term is)21:43
DocScrutinizer##ping21:43
the-bossDocScrutinizer: Error: "#ping" is not a valid command.21:43
rm_workwhich i would assume is the right action21:43
ieatlintmy understanding is if you shout "html5" enough, it'll fix itself21:43
rm_worksince it seems that could lead to "undefined behavior"21:43
ZogG_laptop#ping21:43
the-bosspong21:43
luke-jrSazpaimon: function a() { } is not a statement, and not allowed in blocks21:43
rm_workor rather, doing this in general is obviously "undefined behavior" :P21:43
ZogG_laptoplosers21:43
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: I asume the-boss has no "official" approval for this chan?21:43
ZogG_laptopwhy two ## ?21:43
luke-jrSazpaimon: per the spec21:43
MohammadAGdoes anyone's keyboard not light up?21:43
MohammadAG34-221:43
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer21:44
rm_workSazpaimon: in this case I would assume that it is NOT a good case to do that, so don't do it21:44
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: stop being mean21:44
Sazpaimonluke-jr, can I see that spec?21:44
rm_workZogG_laptop: in freenode, off-topic channels need to use ##21:44
Sazpaimonor at least that part21:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, X-Fade said it was "our bot"21:44
luke-jrSazpaimon: http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/Ecma-262.pdf21:44
MohammadAGbut I approve of kicking it till #changes21:44
*** the-boss was kicked by DocScrutinizer (no bots allowed here without permission of chan owner or chanop)21:44
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Stskeepsuh, why is the-boss in here21:44
DocScrutinizerbtw this is a general freenode policya, not only here21:45
Sazpaimonits ok, I told him to be here21:45
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer21:45
Sazpaimoni run irc so its ok21:45
Sazpaimonall of irc21:45
Sazpaimonits mine ok21:45
DocScrutinizerno it's not21:45
Sazpaimonluke-jr, what page of this 258 page document is this in21:45
ieatlintSazpaimon: wow21:45
DocScrutinizerthis bot is misbehaving and serves no obvious purpiose21:45
ieatlintcan i touch you?21:45
rm_work:P21:45
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: have can you know other op didnt add it?21:45
ZogG_laptopor you the only owner?21:46
DocScrutinizerno, there's also dm8tbr21:46
DocScrutinizerbut _MeeGoBot_ is owned by him21:46
luke-jrSazpaimon: no one page. I just looked at the syntax for try blocks, Block, and noticed function a(){} wasn't a Statement21:46
DocScrutinizerso I really doubt he'd allow a duplicate21:46
* luke-jr notes the-boss has a meego host21:47
ZogG_laptopyo are like the guys buying domains just to have all of them21:47
DocScrutinizerI give a flying F what host cloak this bot got21:47
RST38hDoc: Industry did, but we are talking of a particular device done by a particular company, with a skeleton team, in a hurry21:47
RST38hDoc: So there is hope :)21:47
DocScrutinizerif it's an official meego bot then the one maintaining it (aka "owner") shall goddamn read freenode policies about how bots shall behave21:48
DocScrutinizerand how bot owners shall behave21:48
DocScrutinizeragain, this is NO Nokia channel21:49
Sazpaimonluke-jr, well you're right21:49
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: if you did chan and yo are not official part of meego than how is it official?21:49
Sazpaimoni just realized try literally means "Try statement"21:49
Sazpaimonand a function delcaration isn't a statement unless it's assigned to a variable21:49
* RST38h yawns, suggests Doc to relax21:49
RST38hwho gives a damn if #meego's resident bot visits here, as long as it does not do any mischief?21:50
DocScrutinizerI'm angry I missed to kick dj myself ;-P21:50
DocScrutinizerhave to do some workout now to calm down21:50
DocScrutinizer#mischief is relative21:51
the-bossDocScrutinizer: Error: "mischief" is not a valid command.21:51
DocScrutinizerdude, this is a ban now21:51
luke-jr:D21:51
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer21:51
RST38hit is probably homeless, orphaned, and lonely21:51
M4rtinKbug 12321:51
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer21:51
*** the-boss was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)21:51
_MeeGoBot_Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots21:51
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Stskeepsjust ban it21:52
rm_worki wonder if there is a bug for "my email client doesn't work at all"21:52
M4rtinKlooks like it doesn't serve bugreports21:52
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer21:52
RST38hrm_work: there used to be, for Maemo5 Modest21:52
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b the-boss!*@*21:52
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rm_worki think it is probably because i am still on the beta firmware that shipped with the device T_T21:52
Stskeepschances are it's for notifications from apps.formeego.org21:52
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i think too power for 2 people on "officiial" opensource project a lot people work on and as bot owner is taking a big part21:52
RST38hrm_work: actually there were multiple such bugs for Modest21:52
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DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: sorry, doesn't parse21:53
ZogG_laptop?21:53
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ZogG_laptopi was talking you can't decide alone21:54
DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: I obviously can21:54
DocScrutinizerif you wonder on which rules my decision is based, check freenode policy about bots21:54
ZogG_laptopyou can be so much unfair and bully sometimes21:55
RST38hStskeeps: BTW, do you have any idea what is going on with the formeego app manager?21:55
DocScrutinizerunfair against a misbehaving bot? c'mon!21:56
RST38hStskeeps: the last version installed two icons into the app meny, one of which did not do anything, seemingly21:56
RST38hDoc: You hurt its feelings!21:56
StskeepsRST38h: SEP21:56
RST38hDoc: What if it commits suicide?21:56
ZogG_laptopRST38h: X-Fade and guys working on and that bot was related to it btw21:56
ZogG_laptopRST38h: i have it it works ok nw21:57
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I hope it won't take the server hw with it on doing so21:57
RST38hDoc: you never know21:57
RST38hDoc: in this case you will be basically inciting a terrorist act =)21:58
RST38hStskeeps; just wondering21:58
StskeepsRST38h: i don't know, there's irc meetings regularly, a good place to ask21:58
RST38haha21:58
MohammadAGhow the fuck do I sort an MList alphabitically21:59
DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: rule #1 about IRC bots: never join a chan without invitation or permission by chan owner or chanops. Rule #2: be registered and have your owner in /ns info (mail), or alternatively respond to "?" or "status" or "help" or "owner". Rule #3: do NEVER spam chan with useless shit21:59
MohammadAGalphabetically21:59
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DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: and btw we already got THREE "official" bots in this chan, you can easily tell they are "official" as they all got +V22:02
ieatlinti'd like to bring in a bot22:05
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ZogG_laptopi want to rape it22:06
ieatlinti'll allow it22:06
ZogG_laptopyay22:07
ZogG_laptopi'll rape you first22:07
ieatlintthat's mean22:08
ieatlintand i'm off to lunch22:08
ZogG_laptop~rape ieatlint22:08
* infobot takes ieatlint behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams22:08
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MohammadAGI want to assign one thing to another22:19
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luke-jr]insult DocScrutinizer22:19
ljrbotDocScrutinizer sucks.22:19
MohammadAGQHash and QMap allow dictionaries22:19
MohammadAGbut I want only two things22:19
luke-jr]part22:20
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luke-jr:P22:20
Stskeepswt22:20
Stskeepsf22:20
Stskeepsthe level has sunk even lower than when djszapi was in here22:20
luke-jrlol22:21
MohammadAGoh, QPair22:21
DocScrutinizerhaha22:21
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: maybe you're right, but luckily it will recover eventually - sth that never happened while he was in here22:22
luke-jrI'll try to shut up more. Everything useful I have to say belongs in #Maemo22:27
* luke-jr observes Stskeeps is now missing from #Maemo :o22:27
Stskeepsi've been missing for ages from there22:28
luke-jr:P22:28
luke-jrexplains why I never see you22:28
luke-jrget me a N950 so I can do a port to that too? ;)22:28
Stskeepsit's not free enough for you22:29
luke-jrsomeone here said the DRM was removed22:29
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DocScrutinizerin allegedly never had DRM22:37
DocScrutinizerfor whatever DRM means in your book22:38
DocScrutinizer~aegis22:39
infobothttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif22:39
DocScrutinizer~no-aegis22:39
infobotrumour has it, aegis-no-thanks is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/22:39
DocScrutinizerhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575 +21p22:41
DocScrutinizerfor pawky22:41
DocScrutinizero/22:42
pawkyDocScruitinizer: Thank you  :-)22:42
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, screw me? :(((22:55
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rm_worklol22:58
rm_workyep22:58
rm_workkicking the DJs :P22:59
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ieatlintapparently i was raped while at lunch23:08
ieatlintalso, there's just one L in Walmart.  you people have such disrespect for noble companies..23:08
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, why ruin a party by kicking the DJ?23:08
MohammadAGyou know better23:08
MohammadAGunless you play guitar, preferably electric, then yeah you're free to do that23:09
luke-jrieatlint: Walmart is not noble.23:11
ieatlintpff, they're biggest employer in the world and under US law is a person23:12
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luke-jrieatlint: so?23:14
ieatlintso they put food on the table of hundreds of thousands23:17
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rm_workso would other stores if they still existed...23:27
rm_workjust wait until Walmart is the only store left :P23:27
rm_workTHEN we'll see23:27
ieatlintyou need to have more trust in benevolent dictators23:30
ieatlintas long as you keep giving them your money, everything will be fine23:30
rm_work^_^23:31
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GeneralAntillesieatlint, and make it affordable for millions more.23:55
GeneralAntillesrm_work, yeah, except those other stores cost twice as much. :P23:55
rm_worklol23:57
rm_work1.2x IME23:57
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rm_workbut I bet that's only until the rest of the stores go away23:57
rm_workthen it'll jump back up23:58

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