IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-12-02

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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: hoi!00:03
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ZogG_laptopanyone using any extrenal power chargers batteries? i mean the pocket ones, not the AC-wall chargers01:07
* SpeedEvil is waiting for his to arrive.01:09
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DocScrutinizeranybody knows of thumb related silicon errata in OMAP3430?01:10
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: hey01:11
DocScrutinizerhey ZogG_laptop01:11
DocScrutinizer~seen konttori01:12
infobotkonttori <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 185d 15h 38m 54s ago, saying: 'genius6'.01:12
DocScrutinizer~seen konttori_work01:12
infobotkonttori_work <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 91d 14h 44m 53s ago, saying: 'morning'.01:12
DocScrutinizer~seen konttori_home01:12
infobotkonttori_home <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 153d 1h 40m 40s ago, saying: 'ok, font went in now. Time to go to bed! Night all!'.01:12
DocScrutinizer~seen konttori_office01:12
infobotDocScrutinizer: i haven't seen 'konttori_office'01:12
ZogG_laptop~seen kontorri_toilet01:13
infobotZogG_laptop: i haven't seen 'kontorri_toilet'01:13
DocScrutinizerdid I already mention that changing your nick frequently is almost as bad as crossposting or away-notifications? :-(01:14
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i do noot change my nickname01:14
ZogG_laptopi have one account with several nicknames registered to it01:15
ZogG_laptopone for PC, one for laptop, one for phone and one for work01:15
yipdwone account to bring them all and in the darkness bind them01:16
ZogG_laptopacoount is the same so if bot is not stupid enuf he would tell you what acc i did use but will now i'm still ZogG01:16
ZogG_laptopbtw DocScrutinizer where are your 51 ending account ? i loved it01:17
ZogG_laptopor was it diff number01:17
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DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: see DocScrutinizer5101:24
DocScrutinizerI'm using two aaccounts as Konversation doesn't play nice with ZNC and xchat01:25
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i don't have znc =01:31
DocScrutinizerbtw ~seen seems to not work as expected on infobot: >>*** konttori_work has joined #maemo <<  vs >> <infobot> konttori_work <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 91d 14h 44m 53s ago, saying: 'morning'.<<  -  obviously joining doesn't count as "seen" for infobot01:37
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deramjoining could be something automatic, and not result of the person being active01:49
SpeedEvilSee recent unfortunate example.01:52
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DocScrutinizersure, but "seen" isn't exactly identical to "active"01:52
DocScrutinizer~seen _MeeGoBot_01:53
infobot_meegobot_ is currently on #harmattan (2d 9h 16m 58s) #meego (2d 9h 16m 58s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1d 17h 55m 26s, last said: 'qgil was last seen 9 weeks, 40 minutes and 11 seconds ago, saying '* qgil too' in #meego.'.01:53
_MeeGoBot_infobot: ok01:53
ZogG_laptopbot's are talking02:04
ZogG_laptop~talk to _MeeGoBot_02:04
* infobot chatters endlessly to to _MeeGoBot_02:04
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decibytei've installed sshfs from <> (and fuse-utils from <>). now, when i try to mount something i get: "fusermount: mount failed: Operation not permitted". even as root. i read something about user should be in the group called "fuse". this didn' exist, i created it added both user an08:33
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decibytei _do_ get to authenticate at the remove machine. seems like it partially works.08:51
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decibytecould it somehow be related to the famous aegis?09:17
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hiemanshudecibyte: Operation not permitted is most likely aegis09:38
decibytehiemanshu: okay. thanks. any idea what i should do to make it work?09:42
decibyte(yes, i am a pretty noobish when it comes to this)09:43
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ZogG_laptopluke-jr: ping09:53
ZogG_laptopluke-jr: where does ebuild installs qt-creator?09:54
ZogG_laptopoh, found it =)09:55
ZogG_laptopi just trying to use awesome wm09:55
ZogG_laptopand thought it would be Qt-creator or qt-creator, but it's qtcreator =)09:56
luke-jrawesome wm doesn't sound so awesome09:56
ZogG_laptopluke-jr: matter of time09:56
ZogG_laptopi actually starting to like it09:56
ZogG_laptopluke-jr: hate KDE as well as gnome, like xfce4 but want something lighter09:57
hiemanshuXMonad is pretty nice too09:57
luke-jrI don't especially like where KDE is going, but until someone comes up with a viable alternative…09:57
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djszapiZogG_laptop: you cannot hate KDE :P10:03
ZogG_laptopluke-jr: there are few qt wms des, not much but still10:03
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: why wouldn't i hate it10:04
luke-jr[ 52%] Building CXX object kio/CMakeFiles/kio.dir/kio/kdynamicjobtracker.o10:04
djszapibecause it is cool :P :P10:04
luke-jrlooks like kdelibs will take 2 days to build on N90010:04
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: not really10:04
djszapiluke-jr: it takes me 4-6 hours in scratchbox/c-obs to build kdelibs10:04
luke-jrdjszapi: k, but that's not on the N90010:05
djszapiluke-jr: I was just referring to that, kdelibs is a very big project10:05
ZogG_laptophaha slonopotamus has gentoo on n900 or was it n810 =)10:05
luke-jrZogG_laptop: slono is just N80010:05
luke-jrI'm the only Gentoo/N900 dev atm10:05
hiemanshuwhy would anyone want Gentoo on N900?10:06
luke-jr(also Gentoo/N810)10:06
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: it's too biig and not modular, that's why i hate gnome as well. i hate both10:06
luke-jrhiemanshu: because it's the most viable OS choice at this point10:06
djszapiZogG_laptop: you will love KDE Frameworks then10:06
hiemanshuluke-jr: whats wrong with Maemo + CSSU?10:06
luke-jrhiemanshu: it has no potential.10:06
djszapibecause we decided this summer in Switzerland with many folks to split up kdelibs into many smaller modules.10:06
luke-jrhiemanshu: Maemo is too closed.10:06
hiemanshuluke-jr: Nemo?10:07
luke-jrdjszapi: nice10:07
djszapisee the "frameworks" branch in kdelibs10:07
luke-jrdjszapi: can Akonadi die too? please?10:07
djszapiakonadi is a core part of kde pim10:07
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djszapiso the answer is a definite no for now.10:07
luke-jrAkonadi is the worst idea anyone ever had10:07
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i want small kde console kde app, it would pull whole kdelibs and other stuff with it10:08
luke-jrZogG_laptop: he says not in the future :P10:08
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djszapiZogG_laptop: you will love the kde frameworks, there is no KDE510:08
djszapiit is a complete restructure10:08
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: so it would thousand ppackages now depending on eachother =010:08
luke-jrdjszapi: or at least, maybe rework Akonadi in a sane manner? :P10:08
djszapiZogG_laptop: of course no.10:09
luke-jrie, I don't want a freaking MySQL server on my N900 just for my address book10:09
hiemanshudjszapi: will KDE now come with aegis as a part of the libs?10:09
* hiemanshu runs10:09
ZogG_laptopand you would play with all flags and conflicts when you don't use kde10:09
djszapiluke-jr: you can use sqlite imho, that is what the pim guys do in kontact iirc10:09
luke-jrdjszapi: last I checked, sqlite was experimental, unsupported, and broken10:09
ZogG_laptopluke-jr: that's why there are sqllite10:09
luke-jrdjszapi: and most annoying of all, KAddressBook does not work *at all* since it got switched to Akonadi10:09
luke-jrsqlite support in akonadi*10:10
djszapiwell, many people do not like akonadi, many people do not like plasma. Many do.10:10
djszapiit is all about taste :)10:10
djszapiyou cannot eliminate it because of your taste if many others would like to have it.10:10
luke-jrif Akonadi worked and didn't require MySQL, maybe it wouldn't be so hated10:11
djszapiit is not any hated, it is just like as usual about softwares, taste and so forth10:11
ZogG_laptopit's all about people that don't care about their computer10:11
luke-jrI fear KDE 4.7 because I cannot afford to lose KMail like I lost KAddressBook10:11
ZogG_laptopthey install kde as kde and not different packages10:11
luke-jrdjszapi: "doesn't work" is not taste.10:11
djszapiZogG_laptop: incorrect, I have 20-30 kde libs packages for Harmattan10:12
djszapi(or maybe more?)10:12
ZogG_laptopas gentoo user i even watch compile output time to time10:12
ZogG_laptopthough they turned it off by default =)10:12
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: it's only phone, and on computer it would be 200-300?10:12
djszapiZogG_laptop: no, it is almost the same on debian10:13
djszapi+2 packges maybe10:13
djszapisame on ubuntu, kubuntu etc10:13
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: lies =)10:13
* luke-jr opens KAddressBook: yep, still none of my contacts10:13
djszapiZogG_laptop: no, it is not lies, we designed it together with kde debian developers.10:13
djszapiwhen I started to do it for harmattan, but anyway, you can check out yourself...10:14
luke-jrdid Debian de-modularize KDE? :o10:14
djszapiof course not.10:15
djszapimoreover, they added some kde packaging tools and dynamic library checking packages for convenience. <3 those.10:15
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: qt is nice, but not kde10:15
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ZogG_laptopand i think kde should be on desktop who likes it10:17
ZogG_laptopbut somethings can't be ported to phone10:17
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ZogG_laptopbut need to be rewritten10:18
luke-jrI think kdelibs shouldn't take 2 days to compile on N900. XD10:18
luke-jr(and that's *with* distcc)10:18
djszapiZogG_laptop: kde is already ported to various phones...10:19
djszapikde was available on phones way long ago meego has ever existed.10:19
luke-jrdjszapi: not usable, though10:19
luke-jrI could barely get KDE to load in the N810's 128 MB RAM10:20
djszapiluke-jr: at least the feedback shows differently, and comment on the relevant posts.10:20
djszapiand I am happy about that :)10:20
luke-jrlet alone run any apps on top of that10:20
djszapiluke-jr: I fail to see why.10:21
luke-jrhopefully it's better now, with N900 having 256 MB RAM, and knotify not eating a ton of memory10:21
djszapicore kdelibs is way much smaller than Qt gui stuff.10:21
djszapithe shared library, that is10:22
luke-jrdjszapi: hard to measure by library10:22
djszapithe shared library is 2.7 MB10:22
djszapiwhat is hard to load in that ?10:22
luke-jrI just know "startkde" used up all 128 MB10:22
djszapiQt gui shared library is about 11-14 MB10:22
djszapiluke-jr: I think what you refuse is that, kde is not just a desktop10:23
luke-jrI refuse to play name games.10:23
djszapiin principle, plasma is one kde project of the many.10:24
djszapiwe do not need to run plasma to have KDE apps on Harmattan, Android, ratposion or wherever.10:24
luke-jrI said KDE, not KDE apps.10:25
djszapiyou could check out some mission statement on youtube, where people, like Aaron Seigo, are describing what KDE is nowadays.10:26
djszapiI agree about that plasma is incapable on various platforms in comparison what it could be.10:28
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djszapibut plasma is not the only KDE project, you can choose what you like.10:28
djszapiluke-jr: so is it easy to port gentoo to phones ? I had been using it for many years previously.10:34
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: there was one guy who ported to old win mobile palm gentoo =)10:35
ZogG_laptopgnome-base/gnome-menus-[python], required by gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.2.2, required by net-wireless/gnome-bluetooth-3.2.1, required by gnome-extra/nm-applet-[bluetooth]10:40
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: ^ that's why i don't like them10:40
unreal-mmmm, i've got an interesting bug: my n9 doesn't want to display new emails on the notification screen or display the "@" on the lock screen... anyone have (fixed?) that bug?10:41
djszapiZogG_laptop: what would you do with such a big projects ?10:41
djszapiin any case, I am trying to make the plasmaless kde mobile way to have some manpower here too. If you are interested in such things, here is my blog:
cos^is there a way to get rid of facebook events in the feed page?10:48
cos^i'd like to have the account enabled, but don't want 200 useless fb events in the feed10:48
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i dunno, xfce4 is pretty good and has less problem with everything depending on everything10:51
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: you should try one of those on gentoo to understand10:51
ZogG_laptop#required by x11-libs/gtk+-2.24.8-r1, required by net-dialup/ppp-2.4.5-r2[gtk], required by net-misc/networkmanager-[ppp], required by net-libs/libsocialweb-0.25.20[networkmanager], required by gnome-base/gnome-control-center-3.2.2[socialweb], required by net-wireless/gnome-bluetooth-3.2.1, required by gnome-extra/nm-applet-[bluetooth], required by @selected, required by @world (argument)10:52
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: ^ why would i need social things and gnome-control center for that?10:53
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Venemo_N950hey guys :)10:56
Venemo_N950djszapi, happy birthday! :)10:56
djszapiVenemo_N950: thanks :)10:58
djszapiparty tonight :P10:58
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Venemo_N950djszapi, I thought so :P11:00
djszapiZogG: social things and gnome-control center for what ?11:01
djszapiI do not actually know other way around. That is pretty much how qt is organized as well. You need qtcore for many things.11:01
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qronicKaadlajk, hi, haven't you got any response about sp-oops-extract availablity?11:17
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ZogGdjszapi i just want nm-applet11:20
ZogGand this what it pulls11:21
ZogGdjszapi qt-core is ok, but kdelibs and kde apps just for some qt app that i want to use not as kde part is sick11:21
ZogGVenemo_N950, hey dude11:21
ZogGdjszapi happy bday man =)11:22
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djszapiZogG_laptop: why not ? Solid is Qt only, and after kde frameworks, you can use it as if it was the part of the qt-project, a library for installation. That is the idea behind  the KDE Frameworks. How would you do it better ? Thanks for the wish :)11:24
djszapiso the problem is that: you need X, but you do not wanna install more. That will be solved by KDE Frameworks. What is missing ?11:24
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khertanmaybe someone could say me if there is differences in qml in n9 and n950 ?11:36
khertanwhile KhtEditor is running on n95011:36
khertanit doesn't on n911:36
ZogG_laptopkhertan: hey buddy11:37
ZogG_laptopkhertan: give me url to check it11:37
ZogG_laptopi mean to install and to try to run to see output if you want11:38
djszapikhertan: same firmware, what does not run precisely ?11:38
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Piru_completely off topic: telnet miku.acm.uiuc.edu11:58
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khertanZogG_laptop, branch qml11:59
khertanZogG_laptop, i already got output11:59
khertanfrom some n9 user11:59
khertanbut nothing interesting11:59
khertandjszapi, this is the problem ... it s difficult to know what didn't run with qml12:00
djszapikhertan: do you use 1.0 or 1.1 include ?12:00
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djszapikhertan: 1.1 not available in public...12:02
djszapihence, I had to use 1.0 as well12:02
djszapikhertan: I did not ask for QtQuick version12:02
khertanWe are talking of QtQuick 1.1 ?12:02
phunguyanyone have any idea why the meego components aren't showing up in qt creator?  I'm trying to develop the UI for a new program but no buttons, etc are listed in the library12:02
khertanyou mean nokia component 1.012:03
phunguy(qt quick app)12:03
khertanyep i use 1.012:03
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djszapikhertan: well, hard to say without the console output :P12:04
khertandjszapi, the problem seems related to including the QTextEdit in the QGraphicProxyWidget12:04
djszapiwhite screen, or something else ?12:04
khertandjszapi, nothing interesting in console12:04
khertanjust app close12:04
khertannot even a segfault12:04
djszapino qml error ?12:04
djszapiclose before showing up the ui ?12:04
khertannope just on some feature12:05
khertandisplay Rectangle and Image works :)12:05
djszapisounds like you might wanna debug it12:05
djszapiput as many console logging into qml as possible.12:05
khertananyway ... i ll probably let this qml version of KhtEditor die12:05
djszapisame with the cpp12:05
khertanand will rewrite it with an other frameworks12:06
khertanthere is also many glitches with the vkb that i can't resolve12:06
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khertandjszapi, or maybe did you see a better solution to do text syntax highlighting in qml without including a QPlainTextEdit in a QGraphicProxyWidget ?12:08
hiemanshunokia developer website has fail captcha, I just spent 5 mins getting a readable image :/12:09
matrixxhiemanshu: I had the same problem12:14
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matrixxevery time some thingie was covering one of the symbols12:14
phunguy > see, no Components in the library area.  I can't add anything to the UI :(12:14
hiemanshumatrixx: yeah, they sent me an email asking me to reset my password for security reasons12:14
matrixxhiemanshu: me too, I wonder if there's been a new attack12:15
hiemanshuyeah, I hope not12:16
matrixxor maybe the last breach appeared to be broader than expected12:16
phunguy > there's my answer12:23
ZogG_laptopkhertan: is there package or source only?12:23
khertanZogG_laptop, there is a package in obs12:24
khertanversion 3.0.212:24
khertanand i ven't release yet 3.0.312:24
ZogG_laptopkhertan: i can check only pkg as i don't have tools to compile myself12:25
khertan(it s python + qml ... no need to compile :)12:25
ZogG_laptopkhertan: if it's on OBS try to push it to apps.formeego.com12:25
ZogG_laptopoh than wait12:25
khertani'll push it if it s works12:25
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X-Fadekhertan: hey, we're just testing ;)12:27
phunguyso if qt components aren't integrated into the designer, is there any other way to visually design the UI, or it has to all be done from code?12:27
X-Fadekhertan: 15 more in the queue atm.12:27
phunguyso if qt components aren't integrated into the designer, is there any other way to visually design the UI, or it has to all be done from code?12:28
khertanX-Fade, yep and it s a good things this finnally come12:28
khertani didn't think people was still working on it12:28
X-FadeWe need a few more people to help test and do community QA on the apps in testing btw.12:28
djszapiwe should probably put many packages from c-obs to testing in there.12:29
khertanX-Fade, only real app are accepted ? i mean which have an ui ? like on maemo ?12:29
X-Fadedjszapi: Yes.12:29
khertanor does command line apps are also welcome12:30
X-Fadekhertan: We don't block those at least ;)12:30
djszapiand establishing the proper QA policy is more needed imho than putting packages in there.12:31
djszapithat is a lot of work though. IIRC Ovi is developed by many people.12:32
phunguycrap its 5:30am12:33
X-Fadedjszapi: Sure, but you can start off simple.12:33
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djszapiX-Fade: no allocated time sorry :)12:34
phunguydjszapi> friend, pal, :) any tips on qt quick UI development?12:34
djszapiyes, never ever use qtcreator12:34
X-Fadedjszapi: Atm we have simple things like, does it run, does it use a lot of power, does it uninstall.12:35
phunguygreat tip.  what should I start with then?12:35
djszapiX-Fade ouch, so no security checks...12:35
X-Fadedjszapi: How would you do that :)12:35
djszapiX-Fade: I know many holes in Harmattan, I would start checking all of them12:35
djszapijust like OVI started doing btw.12:36
X-Fadedjszapi: But that is not public info.12:36
ZogG_laptopkhertan: no git there and downloading file by file from phone with wget doesn't work very well12:36
djszapiX-Fade: not public what ? It is just about hacking really :)12:36
djszapiyou find a security hole, the qa process should defense against that. There are many like that.12:37
X-Fadedjszapi: I mean that there are no tools publicly available to do the checks.12:37
djszapiyou need to write that for sure.12:37
X-Fadedjszapi: But that is hard to do when you don't know about what to check for ;)12:37
djszapiX-Fade: you need to think of the possible holes for sure12:38
djszapiI think that is one of the most important part of the QA process.12:38
* X-Fade appoints djszapi as the community security team lead12:38
ZogG_laptopcd /tmp12:38
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phunguyWhat should one start out with for coding in QT other than Creator?12:42
radiofreephunguy: vi?12:44
lizardoX-Fade: regarding package licenses, is there any restriction/recommendations on this regard?12:45
phunguynot sure how I could visually create the UI I want with vi. I could code it fine, I'm looking for a decent way to create the UI12:45
radiofreethere's qt designer i think, but not sure how old that is12:45
lizardoX-Fade: (on QA subject)12:45
radiofreefor QML stuff you mean?12:45
X-Fadelizardo: Only OSS.12:45
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phunguyradiofree > that doesn't support harmattan qt-components though12:46
lizardoX-Fade: good, easier to QA for security things (if one is interested on deep analysis) then :)12:46
radiofreeI suppose the only qml designer is in qt creator then12:46
X-Fadelizardo: At least we have the source code then yes.12:47
djszapiX-Fade: too much responsibility to take care of security also in leisure time :P It is one of the most responsible areas :P I am already trying to get into the Qt security issue circles..:)12:47
X-Fadedjszapi: Anyway, any help on tools would be good. Even if it is just contacts etc.12:48
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: i made some adv for on russian meego society12:48
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X-FadeZogG_laptop: ah, cool :)12:49
djszapiZogG_laptop: from Russia, do you come to Saint Petersburg for the FRUCT11 conference with us ?12:50
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lizardoX-Fade: my suggestion for one check is to do a basic review on the package maintainer scripts (postinst/preinst/postrm/etc.) and look for "suspicious" operations (which I'm still collecting myself). E.g. packages touching /etc/udev/*  or modifying /dev/* files. There are a couple of holes there12:54
hiemanshuSaint Petersburg reminds me of Hitman 2 :D12:54
X-Fadelizardo: We'd need some self contained tool for that. Which basically takes the source and runs some tests against it.12:55
lizardoX-Fade: agree. I would contribute to that once there is some requirements in place :)12:56
X-FadeThe BOSS automation we have for the process is such that we can plug in scripts to do certain tasks easily.12:57
djszapiand the tool should not be written in C++ imho since the tool mistake probabilities should be solely avoided.12:59
X-FadeBoss participants are done in python mostly.13:00
djszapiyes, something very simple. It is the same case as unit tests13:00
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Jare_is there a list of available dbus commands somewhere?13:22
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djszapido you mean available interfaces or what ?13:25
sledgeshello, got my N9!!!13:25
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Jare_djszapi: something like this
* RST38h yawns13:29
RST38hSo, how are things? Are we dead yet? =)13:30
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djszapithere are different pages, but no colelcted one imho13:31
sledgesis this a good place to ask about N9 WiFi PR1.1 not seeing my AP?13:32
sledges(I reckon Harmattan embraces the kernel, too)13:32
sledges((double sorry for asking to ask :)))13:33
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djszapizz_gri: do you make special validation in yoru account plugin ?13:45
corecodeyipdw: you there?13:47
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djszapimm, actually there are more ways of installing a package as non-root..14:18
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Corsachmhm, I missed the scary mail about password reset on
djszapiinteresting 1-2 aegis bug reports of the many on the public bug tracker.15:11
CorsacI should report one about giving a warning when the device reboots because of an aegis violation15:13
djszapihuh ?15:14
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gridjszapi: nope, I don't check the data while entering (most of my apps' plugins dont support that so I left it out)15:25
gridjszapi: I only ensure all fields are filled15:25
griCorsac: they still don't comment on why the password had to be reset and why is down for 3 days now :)15:27
Corsacgri: well, that looks obvious15:27
djszapigri: without that, the plugin must be simple. I believe that is the most hefty part of the plugins, like skype.15:28
griCorsac: Nooo, never :P15:28
djszapiskype even does a special check.15:28
Corsacdjszapi: I experience from time to time (mostly when fresh booted) reboots when opening the phone app. One of that time I had a tail -f running on the logs, I noticed aegis was reporting an failed integrity check on some .db15:28
Corsacdjszapi: so it could warn on screen about that instead of triggering an immediate reboot15:28
gridjszapi: Well, for oauth2 and such, there should be required nothing to validate15:29
gridjszapi: if you have your own mechanism, you can implement a signon plugin which validates the data :)15:29
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djszapiCorsac: steps to repro ?15:35
djszapigri: not quite15:36
djszapigri: most of the builtin plugins do have validation actually.15:36
Corsacnot really reproducible, as I said, it happens “sometimes” when I boot, pressing the phone app makes the device reboot15:36
Corsacdjszapi: and usually it happens if I press the phone app quickly after the app screen appeared, and not if I wait a bit15:36
Corsacso it might be a race condition of some sort15:37
gridjszapi: I did not say they don't use validation. I said for oauth2 etc., the validation should work out of the box15:37
djszapiCorsac: try to find reproducing steps. Also the precise db file would help a lot.15:37
djszapigri: so the answer is that for the original question, yes you do have validator functionality.15:38
Corsaclet me check the logs15:38
griI don't but mostly all other plugins have15:38
djszapiso not oauth2, not even validation ? :)15:38
djszapiyou sure ovi store accepts it ? :P15:38
grinope, I store passwords not oauth tokens15:38
grisince my server should not save these passwords15:39
griit only takes them from the phone when sending a message and does not store it at all15:39
djszapiis that good ?15:40
griwell, both choices suck15:40
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grithe only "safe" method would be: let the phone do the website scraping instead of the server15:40
gribut then it takes longer or may not work using gprs15:41
djszapiwell, that is one of the purpose of account plugins, to do this15:41
grithe websites I scrape don't have an api15:41
Corsacdjszapi: (not really precise but the number by itself is a bit concerning)15:41
grithey don't like to be scraped :)15:41
djszapigri: sounds scarry :)))15:41
Corsac(note that I don't think each and everyone of them leaded to a reboot)15:41
djszapiCorsac: well, you have a corrupted data15:42
djszapiactually not one, but more15:42
gridjszapi: It's like writing an amazon client without getting api access: you can only "play browser"15:43
CorsacI assume the signon.db is the one leading to the need to enter passwords at every boot?15:43
djszapigri: I think you slightly misunderstood me because what I am basically saying, the storage is one of the main purposes in case account plugins.15:43
djszapiCorsac: you mean the corrupted signon.db ?15:44
gridjszapi: Yes but simply account plugins should only need a few lines of code if you use a predefined authentication method15:44
Corsacdjszapi: yes15:44
djszapigri: that is why I said:  without that, the plugin must be simple. I believe that is the most hefty part of the plugins, like skype.15:45
gridjszapi: In short I meant: either write a very short accounts plugin and add your preferred authentication method to signon OR do everything in the accounts plugin15:45
griit's just not defined who should do the verification15:46
djszapigri: the "default" is not acceptable for most of the plugins including mine.15:46
djszapisetupcontext + validation = 95% of the plugin.15:48
griplease check the facebook plugin15:48
griit should be less code15:48
grisince they could use oauth2, don't know if they do15:49
djszapifacebook does use oauth15:54
griso I would suspect the code in the accountsplugin shorter, like just setting the app secret and such things15:54
griand validation by signond15:55
djszapiwell, I am not allowed to speak about the internal implementation details ;)15:55
griI'm also not really interested in that :P15:56
djszapialso you can check anytime the dependencies...15:56
djszapiit does even use signon plugin15:57
djszapiso it is not just by signon usage directly.15:57
griyeah, there is some header I think15:57
grihmm not exported, so no linker needed ok :)15:59
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grithought it was because of this one:
djszapias far as I can tell, they do not use oauth16:01
grihmm ok16:01
djszapiat least I do not see it in the dependencies16:01
griwell if oauth is used, it's used by signond16:02
griso the accountsplugin should not need to link it16:02
grianyway, I'm going to try this on the weekend since I hate that those dropbox clients don't use the accounts ui16:03
djszapithey do use16:04
djszapiwell, I do not find oauth in the code either16:04
griDropN9 does not use accounts-ui, it does not even use signon16:04
djszapihuh ?16:04
djszapiwhat is DropN9 ?16:05
grisome dropbox client16:05
grilike Dropian (also not using accounts-ui)16:05
djszapithat is the only thing I found on the facebook site:
griI know there is a dropbox icon by nokia in the theme but there's no nokia dropbox client :(16:05
qronicso with all that acrrier IQ buzz on te net, it's not on N9 right?16:05
djszapi -> this one, more precisely.16:05
djszapiI have never seen the dropbox client myself.16:06
djszapigri: that is not what in the code :P16:07
djszapianyway, it is not that simple to write a plugin, if it is not minimal.16:07
leinirqronic: i'd be very surprised it it were - it seems to be a carrier thing rather than a manufacturer thing (except in the case of apple, of course, but they like to think of themselves as carrier of the bright light anyway ;) )16:08
dm8tbrwe don't need carier-iq, we have aegis *snerk* *cough* ;)16:09
djszapigri: have you experimented with the providers xml tags ? Seems a bit undocumented :P16:11
djszapifor the time being, I have just picked up simple username/password login entries.16:11
gridjszapi: I just checked the account-setup tag, this is parsed in the libaccounts-ui at some place16:12
griso I just checked that code to know how the xml might look like16:12
djszapiI know how the xml looks like since they are available in the data folder. I was just wondering whether you know the meanings.16:14
djszapiyes, parser code check is a way, but the idea is to avoid that :P16:14
griI did not use it that excessive16:14
grionly provide description, icon and name - other things are done by my qml code16:14
djszapigri: I think something like this is a fairly trivial one, and I do not dare to use more to not break it :P
djszapithough, I have no clue about the meaning of "<register type="formular"/>" for instance. The community could probably document those on a weikipage...16:17
griif you remove install-existing and children but add <plugin>, that's what I use :)16:17
grino idea what this is for ... you can somehow build the ui via xml and extend the elements if you like ...16:18
gribut there's no real documentation how that should be done16:18
djszapiwell, that is what some plugin does, for instance picasa iirc16:19
gri<name> etc. are translation ids but I think you know that :)16:19
djszapiyes, I realized. Well, the thing is that I am far away from testing :P I try to understand the concepts and alternatives thoroughly, at least as much as possible.16:20
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djszapiI /think/: the best option is that you use existing authentication plugin, second it to write your own plugin. Third is to use password plugin and do authnetication using stored passwords16:21
griaggree with that16:24
griwith one g less :)16:25
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djszapiCorsac: have you flashed EMMC as well, and you did backup restore ?16:41
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Corsacdjszapi: recently? no16:42
djszapiwhen the corruption happened.16:42
djszapiright before that.16:42
CorsacI don't think so, afair it was just after pr1.1 OTA upgrade16:43
Corsacbut note that the upgrade wasn't complete the first time (kernel wasn't upgraded) so I had to force it (reboot -u etc.)16:43
djszapiO_o I wanted to suggest to remove the network connection16:43
djszapiit might be that, the network stuff is running with some operation while the backup is happening...16:44
djszapiAnother option is upstart is somehow running this signond before the aegisfs things.16:44
djszapiOn the other hand, it is better to re-type the password than leaking it out :)16:44
Corsacthere's a backup at every boot?16:44
Corsacanyway, it seems the solution is coming with pr1.216:48
Corsac(according to at least)16:48
djszapiright, my last idea was the battery16:48
djszapiif you run out of the battery, of course the db is corrupted16:49
djszapibut I thought you did not run out ?16:49
X-FadeEven then it is strange that a 99.99% read db corrupts.16:50
X-FadeI mean, it only stores a few usernames and password. That doesn't have heavy churn.16:50
djszapiit is not 99.99% as said above16:51
djszapiit is "random".16:51
X-Fadedjszapi: I mean the accounts db. That itself is mostly read.16:51
X-FadeSo the only time it can corrupt is when things actually write to it.16:52
djszapiwe did not discuss accounts db, just signon, if that is what you mean16:52
X-FadeFine signon then :)16:52
djszapimy gut feeling is actually that, the signon daemon is doing something wrong16:53
X-FadeI experienced the corruption too.16:53
Corsacnote that, afair, it started when I deleted accounts and recreated them, after pr1.1 upgrade16:56
Corsacso maybe the hash was readonly or something after that upgrade16:56
ZogG_laptopafter one after reboot all accounnt password are diappeared and twitter doesn't connect anymore16:56
Corsac(and it may very well be that I did that during the window where I had upgraded to 1.1 but not yet the kernel)16:56
Corsac(and I did remove those accounts in order to investigate #63 :)16:57
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djszapiX-Fade not the username and password are damaged16:57
djszapiX-Fade: the hash stored inside the protected storage index.16:57
X-Fadedjszapi: Ah.16:57
Corsacanyway, since reflashing + restore isn't supposed to work since it'll restore the bad signon.db too, I'm just waiting for pr1.216:58
djszapiX-Fade: and the signon daemon keeps the file opened /all/ the time time, it does not close it on its own. It opens up in write mode.16:58
djszapiX-Fade: so if there is no sync up, the hash can run out of the fashion very simply.16:58
X-FadeI got it fixed though, don't remember how I did it.16:58
X-FadeSome backup/restore iteration, I guess.16:59
djszapianyway, I am off to the company christmas party :P Good luck with this :)16:59
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griit's 22 days left for christmas ..17:11
griWow, that new ubuntu control panel looks like apple ...17:16
nealHow do I figure out if the user is idle/active?  On Maemo 5, I could use mce provided the system_inactivity_ind, but Harmattan does not seem to provide that.17:17
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radiofreeneal: there's the Session.State content property17:22
radiofreewhen Session.State == blanked is probably what you're after?17:22
nealradiofree: Thanks!17:23
radiofreethe documentation isn't great, if you need any help just ping me17:25
radiofreethere's a bit more info about it
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nealradiofree: I'm looking for dbus apis (I'm not using qt).  Do you know off-hand where to find those?17:26
nealradiofree: Or, C APIs.17:26
radiofreecontextkit has a c api17:27
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Pirumm base64 encoded url17:28
Piruah frame. lets try something17:29
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* Piru hides ;)17:36
radiofreePiru ;)17:36
radiofreeneal: sorry, the c api is only for contextprovide, which is not what you want17:37
Corsaclors que bon17:38
Corsac    <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>17:38
Corsac    <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>17:38
Corsac(sorry -ECHAN)17:41
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luke-jrdjszapi: dunno, I don't care about phones18:47
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luke-jrdjszapi: I don't think that "people, like Aaron Seigo" should decide how I use KDE.18:52
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lizardowhere is the code for ?19:07
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yipdwcorecode: here now; what's up?19:31
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corecodeyipdw: hi20:00
corecodeyipdw: i saw your jabber commit20:00
corecodeyipdw: do you have a plan what needs to be implemented?20:00
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M4rtinKI have just checked all bugs on the Harmattan bugzilla to check if the "apps are rotating to portrait orientation when in landscape multitasking view" was filled yet20:56
M4rtinKand it looks like it was not filled yet20:56
yipdwcorecode: I'm still teaching myself the accounts framework, so no plan yet20:57
yipdwcorecode: any documentation towards that would be useful; all I've got right now is the accounts-qt source and some other documentation from Nokia20:57
M4rtinKI know that the landscape multitasking view is unofficial but I still find this behaviour super annoying :)20:58
yipdwcorecode: frankly this would be a lot easier if Nokia just opened up the Google Talk plugin :P20:58
corecodeyipdw: but everything works even without gui21:00
yipdwsort of21:01
corecodeyipdw: seems it is just a matter of adding the gui21:01
corecodewhat's missing?21:01
yipdwcorecode: here's a few things I've noticed:21:01
yipdw1) contact integration -- if you look at a contact's card you can't see their presence for an arbitrary XMPP account21:02
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yipdw2) when you try to contact someone via XMPP, it just shows up as a blank service, though the name you supply is present21:02
yipdw3) the full array of statuses isn't present21:02
yipdw(all you get is "Online" and "Offline")21:02
corecodeis there more?21:03
corecodefor xmpp?21:03
yipdwI haven't found anything yet21:03
corecodeah, some sort of away21:03
yipdwthose all are GUI things, yes21:03
corecodeor dnd21:03
yipdwbut I don't yet know how much is needed to make them work21:03
corecodeso what do your files address?21:03
yipdwthey create a Jabber entry in the "new account" menu21:03
yipdwoh, yes, there is more21:04
yipdw4) no way to configure client priority21:04
yipdw5) no avatar support (I think; this one's hard to quickly verify -- I need to set up a more controlled XMPP test environment)21:04
yipdwbut yeah, that's all they do21:04
corecodeit shows my avatar21:04
yipdwthey don't include any support for account storage or whatnot21:05
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yipdwif you try to create an account using the screens that come up as a result of dumping those XML files in /usr/share/accounts/{providers,services}, you'll get a qtn_storage_undefined (or something) error21:05
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yipdwI haven't figured out what the error means; been trying to find documentation21:06
corecodewith an existing account, what will change?21:06
yipdwoh, I'm using an existing XMPP accunt21:06
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yipdwI'm just trying to add it to the accounts list21:06
yipdwthere's no account registration implemented yet21:06
corecodei understand21:06
yipdw do you mean if you've already added one via the mc-tool hackery?21:07
yipdwthis doesn't address that21:07
corecodeah, you're doing the "add xmpp account to n9"21:07
corecodenot "show xmpp contacts"21:07
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yipdwI would like to get there too21:07
yipdwbut they seem like aspects of the same problem21:07
yipdw(so far)21:08
yipdwagain, I'm not sure -- I just want to get this working :P21:08
corecodecould you maybe add whatever url you find to your README?21:08
yipdwsure thing21:08
yipdwI have seen other examples of account plugins, e.g. the one used for tmo21:08
corecodeah there are sources?21:08
corecodethat's good21:08
yipdwI keep trying to find a more in-depth description of Harmattan's account system on the interwebs, though21:08
yipdwand I'm not finding out21:09
yipdwer, finding it21:09
yipdwoh wait21:09
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yipdweh, never mind; that's roughly where I'm stuck at right now21:10
yipdwI'll send a source code request to Nokia for the gtalk plugin21:11
yipdwI really can't imagine that their hands would be tied due to third-party obligations on that21:11
yipdw(but who knows)21:11
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yipdwthat seems like the most productive thing I could do at this point21:12
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ZogG_laptopluke-jr: re21:39
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ZogG_laptophmm why would i get timeout on connection in qt-creator while deploying keys to n9 ?21:56
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ZogG_laptophmmmm, over wlan it does work =)22:17
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dm8tbrjavispedro: I've zeroed in on one or two minimum features and have the protocol bits for that.23:09
dm8tbrjavispedro: now the challenge will be to make sowatch build and then start adding things there23:09
dm8tbrI've both installed SB and qt-sdk, which one do you use?23:10
javispedrodm8tbr: if you remove qmafwwatchlet from it should build on qt creator23:10
javispedroI am using qt-sdk but with a custom rootstrap23:11
dm8tbractually I manged to install the qmaf deb files, but it still couldn't find one file23:11
javispedrowhich is?23:11
dm8tbrlet me check23:11
javispedroI kinda remember a chicken/egg problem23:12
javispedroI think you will also need to install a previous version' into madde23:12
javispedrothat should come with one of the qmafw-dev packages23:12
javispedroeither way I'd forget about it for now and remove qmafwwatchlet23:13
dm8tbrwhich I thought I had installed23:13
dm8tbrjust comment it out in the main pro file I guess?23:13
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javispedroto save on build time better remove most of them =)23:14
javispedrobasically all of the ones inside the MEEGO_VERSION_MAJOR conditional23:14
javispedro(my plan was obviously to have all of this in separate projects, but well, convenience won...)23:14
dm8tbrright, those can be added once I've figured out a concept for a fake framebuffer23:15
dm8tbrI can put the device in a mode where I just send 128x128 bitmaps23:15
javispedrovery nice23:15
javispedrohave you estimated how much it takes to send one of those?23:16
javispedroand whether you can make partial updates?23:16
dm8tbrno, didn't look at that23:16
dm8tbryes, partial should be possible in theory23:16
dm8tbrat least there is also a function to send a smaller bitmap to a certain coordinate23:16
javispedrovery, verry nice.23:16
javispedro(due to latency if there's no partial updates/damages it would probably be unusably slow)23:17
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dm8tbryes that's what I'd also expect23:20
dm8tbractually I should check the original SDK documentation for hints about their high-level functionality23:21
dm8tbras that will likely map to those things23:21
dm8tbrdpkg-shlibdeps: failure: couldn't find library needed by debian/sowatch/opt/sowatch/lib/drivers/ (its RPATH is '/opt/sowatch/lib:/usr/lib').23:23
dm8tbrseems I did something stupid23:23
javispedroI think this is the chicken and egg problem23:23
javispedroare you on windows?23:23
javispedrodm8tbr: install this to madde --
dm8tbrah, it needs itself installed to be bootstrapped :D23:25
javispedroIt did not happen to me :S, and doesn't seem to happen in sbox23:26
GeneralAntillesDamn Winters.23:29
javispedroI love Winters23:30
javispedrothe fact that here even in January you can pretty much stay outside with just a shirt probably helps23:30
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dm8tbrjavispedro: yay, now it looks much better23:35
dm8tbrlooks like I'll be spending my weekend prototyping this23:35
javispedroI'm making some QML list control that can be both scrolled and navigated with two keys23:36
dm8tbrthe liveview has a nice notification view23:36
dm8tbrwhere you can just feed plain text plus a small logo bitmap to it23:37
dm8tbrthe plaintext can actually be pretty long23:37
dm8tbrdid I show you the video of the python sample code running on n950?23:38
javispedroyou can get the list of pending/live notifications from the watchserver instance23:38
javispedroI think so23:38
dm8tbrthat sounds very good23:38
javispedrobtw on PR1.1 N950 it seems that there are charset issues with notifications23:39
javispedroeven in the lock screen23:39
javispedroall non-ascii chars in my mails' subjects display as mojibake on the lockscreen23:39
javispedroand sometimes you can see "2 new mails<MOJIBAKE>2 mails" instead of the subject23:40
javispedro[sic, without line feeds]23:40
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, the short days mess me up.23:40
GeneralAntillesI like having daylight in the evening.23:41
javispedroGeneralAntilles: oh, good point23:41
javispedrohowever, I hate heat more :)23:41
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, I want to make a tides, sunrise/set, forecast watchlet.23:42
GeneralAntillesHeat doesn't bother me.23:42
GeneralAntillesNor hummidity23:42
GeneralAntillesbut that's Florida living. ;)23:42
* javispedro fails to get Qt Creator to understand QML_IMPORT_DIR23:46

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