IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-10-15

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mikkov	great, now Ovi Store publishing is re-testing my old content instead of testing the new version :)	00:41
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piggz	mikkov: well, i had to send a snotty email to developer support becuase they failed my content on the grounds it didnt perform its intended function...and it most certainly does, and ive been using it for a week myself without issues :)	01:03
mikkov	they failed mine, because version number shown in application wasn't exactly the as the package version	01:04
mikkov	and already published version was exactly the same regarding version number...	01:05
mikkov	real issue I am trying to fix is power saving and now they re-tested the already published version and noticed that power saving wasn't working, great!	01:07
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mikkov	and latest version with version number tweak and power saving fix has been in QA queue two days	01:09
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artemma	two times they failed my app for not deceasing power use on N900 while in background and 3rd time it passed (after some mailing to support)	01:20
artemma	funny thing is that there wasn't even anything to fine-tune. Everything app was about - a single qml screen with some controls	01:20
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia would pay real money for real testers doing QA in OVI. If they would, I'd probably apply, but somehow I'm sure my ideas are not amtching theirs regarding this QA thing		01:50
DocScrutinizer	and we all know Bangalore is way cheaper ;-P	01:51
artemma	well, if you are ready to move to Bangalore maybe.. :)	01:52
DocScrutinizer	I bet Nokia gives a shit where I live and do my job (well, I hope meanwhile they are that far evolved with their infra and concept) - as long as I don't ask for more per hour than the average Bangalore "IT-expert"	01:55
artemma	exactly	01:55
artemma	it's enough if you move metally	01:56
artemma	mentally	01:56
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MohammadAG	I'm just impressed how iPhone devs got paid repositories and Nokia failed twice with the N900	01:56
DocScrutinizer	yup	01:56
MohammadAG	I even tried to trick it with apt-get and it returned a 403	01:56
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DocScrutinizer	artemma: my mind is evenly spread all over the globe already, it's my grocery that refuses to do that move of mine if I tried to compete with Bangalore	02:03
DocScrutinizer	OTOH any competition would be just a hands-down battle if Nokia knew what's relevant	02:04
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DocScrutinizer	I'm not against Bangalore IT specialists, I'd just insist in hiring and firing them, based on a rules system that looks like "Joerg got asked to review a difficult case: karma++. Joerg got asked to review an obvious case: karma--. Joerg got not asked at all though the case been difficult and decided the wrong way: Bye bangalore-boy!"	02:09
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DocScrutinizer	nokia listen: manpower to hire! :-D	02:13
ieatlint	i feel sorry for the indians who actually are awesome, because they really get screwed over with the stereotype	02:13
DocScrutinizer	actually that's a problem	02:13
ieatlint	because yeah, a large percentage of indians seem to have learned programming by reading a book and passing a test, and know surprisingly little about actually programming	02:14
DocScrutinizer	not in the system I suggested though	02:14
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ieatlint	i've seen some horrid things out of indian :(	02:14
ieatlint	err, india	02:15
DocScrutinizer	the problem with the system I siggested: Joerg is not available at Bangalore wages	02:15
DocScrutinizer	suggested*	02:15
ieatlint	i once saw a 2000 main function (no, seriously, not exaggerating)	02:15
DocScrutinizer	and Nokia isn't aware of any problem	02:16
ieatlint	another time i saw a qwidget based app in development for symbian that compiled to 27mb, and when run on my desktop, would consume 80mb of ram and ran so slowly it was unusable -- on my desktop	02:16
ieatlint	on the phone it was even more of a joke	02:16
DocScrutinizer	cool, just get another 2GB RAM-stick	02:17
DocScrutinizer	:-P	02:17
ieatlint	yeah, where do i jam it into the n8?	02:18
DocScrutinizer	do you really think Nokia cares at all, after they declared QML the way to go for the next future?	02:18
faenil	come on, QML is definitely useful to get more people to develop apps, and get more apps because it's easier to make UI	02:19
DocScrutinizer	sure, basic is even easier yet	02:20
faenil	??	02:20
DocScrutinizer	why not use powerpoint presentations? everybody knows to do those	02:21
faenil	because you can't link them to c++? :)	02:21
DocScrutinizer	MUHAHAHA	02:22
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: they declared that about the time they started doubling and quadrupling ram on phones	02:22
DocScrutinizer	lease link a QML app to c++	02:22
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faenil	lol	02:23
ieatlint	but yeah, a week or so ago i stopped in the middle of the day and realized "i'm doing essentially object oriented js linked against a qt backend ... wtf has the world come to"	02:23
faenil	come on, you know what I mean	02:23
faenil	ahhahah	02:23
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faenil	why is QML bad then? sum up, few reasons, DocScrutinizer ;)	02:24
DocScrutinizer	yeah! "don't worry. No matter how many cores and how much RAM you got, we can provide the OS that ensures your PC won't get too fast and pester you while cooking tea" (Windows advertisement. Applies to QML etc too)	02:24
faenil	exactly	02:25
faenil	but that's normal...	02:25
faenil	you get more tech, and you try to things in easier ways with less time...	02:25
faenil	try to do*	02:25
faenil	you can't code great UIs with assembly, it would take too long	02:26
faenil	it comes down to that...time vs efficiency	02:26
ieatlint	qml2 increases the speed a bit :P	02:26
berndhs	yeah but the majority of time is spent making UXs shinier, not functionally better	02:26
DocScrutinizer	yes. 10,000 coders force 1,000,000,000 users to buy 4GB more RAM, so those 10,000 codersa can avoid learning proper coding	02:27
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faenil	Doc, that's all too general..	02:27
DocScrutinizer	no, that's the brutal truth	02:28
faenil	1) there would not be any apps for the 1billion users if those 10k coders wouldn't have had enough time to write the apps...	02:28
faenil	I know what you mean, some people do not care about efficiency...	02:28
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faenil	but that doesn't mean things like QML have to be bad...	02:28
berndhs	the intention of most apps is for the user to waste time, it's entertainment	02:29
DocScrutinizer	there would, if those 1 bio would spent their money on real programmers rather than RAM	02:29
faenil	berndhs: agree	02:29
artemma	proper programming is good, but I code UI in QML ten times better than my colleague does blackberry ui in java	02:29
faenil	artemma: agree	02:29
artemma	and qml even runs faster on a final device	02:29
artemma	ten times faster I mean	02:30
artemma	not better	02:30
artemma	though maybe better as well, but it's irrelevant here	02:30
berndhs	what the users really need can be done in 0KB, they dont need any of it	02:30
artemma	and, boy, you need to see the QML/Javascript code I had to start with. Still it runs decently	02:30
DocScrutinizer	yeah, and I blow your shit away with a generic app coded in a real coding language with proper toolset	02:31
berndhs	the entire industry is frivolous	02:31
DocScrutinizer	but hey, if everything else fails there's still overclocking	02:31
berndhs	so it is not suprising that efficiency is not a priority	02:31
artemma	DocScrutinizer: it is pretty hard to be beat a client written in qml with a client done even in assembler. Everything has own top bottleneck and for think clients it's usually network	02:32
DocScrutinizer	sorry you lost me	02:32
artemma	nobody will notice that your assembler buttons are drawn 5ms earlier	02:33
artemma	use proper tools for proper stuff	02:33
artemma	and if you are not yet ready to move to India, your development time costs a lot	02:33
faenil	agree	02:33
DocScrutinizer	haha, everybody will notice the 800ms for swapping	02:33
artemma	so we better optimize for it	02:33
faenil	we're not talking about building an app with QML only	02:34
DocScrutinizer	yeah, good night fellas	02:34
faenil	-.-	02:34
artemma	DocScrutinizer: well, for 800ms case you better think about some c++, indeed :)	02:34
faenil	good night	02:34
artemma	faenil: I do my apps in 95-100% qml	02:34
artemma	fast and quick	02:35
artemma	works fast and is quick to develop	02:35
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artemma	+ well maintainable and very well testable	02:35
faenil	artemma: I don't agree with that, because in that case the slowdown when you have a js logic clear..	02:35
artemma	?	02:35
faenil	unless the app is very easy	02:35
artemma	?	02:35
faenil	? js vs c++	02:36
artemma	I didn't get the shutdown thing	02:36
faenil	slowdown...	02:37
faenil	if you code app logic in JS	02:37
faenil	instead of C++	02:37
artemma	indeed, depends on amount and complexity of app logic	02:38
artemma	if I was doing 3d gaming I'd think ten times before going for JS	02:38
artemma	thing is business logic for many-many mobile apps doesn't need any computation at all	02:38
artemma	go to ovi store business apps sections. I would really wonder how many pages you'll have to scroll before you find any app that indeed is better to have logic in c++	02:39
faenil	yeah that was what I meant...	02:39
artemma	one of the big points about QML is that it is indeed fast enough for many-many UI things	02:40
faenil	well...I have seen cases in which difference in UI smoothness was clear, and it was because of js	02:40
faenil	My current idea is, use QML for UI (animations, transitions) , and c++ for all the rest	02:41
artemma	my experience tells that often clear, maintainable and refactorable app structure means for performance than speed of the underlying language	02:41
artemma	not always, but often	02:41
artemma	I go further and use C++ for system stuff only. E.g. right now part of my app has to talk to GConf	02:41
faenil	in some cases, I'd say, but yeah, different opinion here ;)	02:41
faenil	I see..	02:42
faenil	.what did you develop?	02:42
artemma	as for public stuff, this one for example store.ovi.com/content/186742	02:43
artemma	my c++ times were about Nokia's speech synthesis and recognition	02:44
faenil	oh you were the one talking about sales :)	02:44
artemma	e.g. if you use "Say caller's name" ringing tone - that was my first work in Nokia	02:44
artemma	yeah, I am pretty excited	02:44
artemma	:)	02:44
faenil	2€ is a lot for an app that has only that feature imho :D (no offence meant ofc...) but if that works, I'm glad for you! :D	02:44
faenil	wow congrats! :D	02:45
artemma	to be frank having my app on the 1st place in the biz apps top sellers... means not very good things about all the other folks below	02:45
faenil	:D	02:46
artemma	I cannot tell the sales number (ovi store terms), but I am really pitiful; about the other folks behind me.. and about my own results as well..	02:46
faenil	I am working on a simple 3d game...but haven't had time to finish it yet :(	02:46
artemma	good luck with that!	02:46
faenil	wait, you can't tell sales number? :O why :O	02:46
* artemma can hardly imagine a "simple" 3d game though		02:46
artemma	I think there was some clause in ovi store terms	02:46
artemma	too tired to really check it now	02:47
faenil	can you say at least how much you get from those 2€?	02:47
artemma	oh, that's public	02:47
faenil	I read an article once on tam hanna's blog	02:47
faenil	that said you get like 4 cents out of a 2€ app	02:47
artemma	70%, but it's only if it sells for 2 eur	02:47
artemma	thing is price is real different all over the world	02:47
faenil	better...	02:47
faenil	oh I see...	02:48
artemma	you choose the price point, not the price in euros	02:48
artemma	so from China they may indeed get some cents	02:48
faenil	I see...	02:49
artemma	well, we'll see how sales go after people start buying N9s for real	02:49
faenil	:)	02:49
artemma	I don't expect mine to be the real top one	02:49
artemma	it's quite niche after all	02:49
faenil	Qt Commercial licence costs too much :D	02:49
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faenil_	connection problem...-.-	02:53
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faenil_	my alterego dropped off..	02:54
faenil_	artemma u still there? :)	02:54
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artemma	almost	02:56
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artemma	good night folks	02:56
artemma	let the speed be with your c++ as well :)	02:56
faenil_	ahahah	02:57
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faenil_	how much did you pay for the qt licence? just curious :)	02:57
artemma	?	02:57
artemma	it's free	02:57
faenil_	but you need to pay if you want to sell apps, don't u?	02:58
faenil_	buy the commercial licence...	02:58
artemma	sure you don't	02:58
artemma	nokia would have no apps in this case :)	02:58
faenil_	lol man I'm such a dumbass then XD	02:58
artemma	I didn't study the terms, I think you need to buy commercial if you do devices with qt	02:58
artemma	but I am not sure even about that	02:58
artemma	maybe you pay for commercial only if you want paid support for looong time	02:59
faenil_	mmm	02:59
faenil_	are you coming to qt dev days by any chance?	02:59
artemma	e.g. Digia is making paid modifications to qt for some commercial licensees	02:59
artemma	nope	02:59
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faenil_	I see..	03:00
artemma	I am speaking at the local meetups for now :)	03:00
artemma	thing is I am not really a qt person	03:00
faenil_	oh, ok :)	03:00
artemma	and probably would have failed the simplest certification	03:00
faenil_	I asked for a free ticket and got it, I can't miss :D I'm freaking happy :D	03:00
artemma	I come from c++ and qt layouting world (has little to do with how qt implements layouting)	03:00
artemma	good luck with that!	03:00
faenil_	thanks :)	03:01
artemma	which Qt days?	03:01
artemma	SF?	03:01
faenil_	Munich	03:01
faenil_	I'm from Italy :)	03:01
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faenil_	I'm still a uni student, so I need to learn A LOT, but better start asap! :)	03:01
artemma	oh, from Nothern Italy should be a short trip	03:02
artemma	and good luck with creating your qt app eventually!	03:02
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artemma	now that you can do it for free :D	03:02
faenil_	thanks :) 2 on the way atm...hope to get one out at least :)	03:02
faenil_	good night ;)	03:02
artemma	bb	03:03
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rantom	Morning	11:43
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doomdog	Morning all, quick question: is there a way to flash only rootfs, leaving user data intact (contacts etc.)?	12:17
rantom	With current tools for the developer-devices I'd say no	12:21
rantom	For what I can tell the OneClickFlasher flashes it all	12:21
doomdog	You can flash only kernel, for instance, using the flasher from within the OCF.	12:22
rcg	i think MohammadAG figured out more details about flashing	12:22
rcg	iirc there is some way to pass more options to the flasher	12:22
MohammadAG	old beta1 flasher	12:23
rcg	ic	12:23
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rcg	doenst work with the new one?	12:23
doomdog	Yes, but I'm not sure if I can avoid erasing contacts etc. in the process.	12:23
rcg	*doesnt	12:23
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doomdog	Will try flasher -r perhaps...	12:26
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dm8tbr	doomdog: so the device doesn't boot?	12:29
mardy	hi all! The packages in harmattan-dev.nokia.com, are they only for the SDK, or will uses be able to install them on the device as well?	12:31
mardy	I'm porting neverball (a C + SDL game), and I need to use this library: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/libo/libosso/	12:31
mardy	can my game depend on it, or is it out-of-reach for the end-user?	12:32
hiemanshu	mardy: if you want to publish it to the Ovi store it will be out of reach, unless its already installed	12:38
mardy	hiemanshu: it's not already installed :-(	12:38
ieatlint	there's libosso-gsf	12:38
mardy	hiemanshu: maybe I can compile it statically, then	12:38
ieatlint	not sure what the difference is	12:38
hiemanshu	mardy: then either include it as part of your deb package	12:38
hiemanshu	or compile statically	12:38
ieatlint	try linking against -losso-gsf and see if it works	12:40
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mardy	ieatlint: no, that's only a modified version of libgsf	12:40
mardy	but I see that libosso-dev contains libosso.a, so I can indeed link statically to it: problem solved :-)	12:41
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ieatlint	ah, cool then	12:43
ieatlint	i'd welcome a neverball game on the n9/50 :)	12:44
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dm8tbr	yes with the sensors that could be really cool	12:52
mardy	ieatlint, dm8tbr: if you have a N900 you can already try it :-)	12:54
ieatlint	i do indeed	12:55
mardy	unfortunately, it's almost unplayable: it's extremely difficult to control it with the accelerometer	12:55
ieatlint	is it in extras?	12:55
mardy	ieatlint: extras-testing, IIRC	12:55
mardy	ieatlint: but neverputt works fine	12:56
mardy	except that it consumes CPU even when paused, I need to fix that	12:56
dm8tbr	mardy: I'll play a round of galaxy on fire 2 in super hard on my harmattan device instead ;)	12:57
ieatlint	but why, there's a golfing game that's ever so much more exciting..	12:57
dm8tbr	for some reason I'm missing the golf game, dunno	12:58
ieatlint	now that's a real shame	13:00
mardy	dm8tbr: you don't miss much, IMHO :-)	13:00
ieatlint	RealGolf2011 is the shit	13:00
ieatlint	it's got grass and everything	13:00
ieatlint	do you have nfs shift?	13:01
dm8tbr	yep	13:01
dm8tbr	didn't play it much though	13:01
ieatlint	i wasn't too impressed by any of the games :(	13:02
ieatlint	gof2 is pretty enough, and it has a few memories of the old tie fighter game, but it left me going "meh"	13:02
dm8tbr	I've played GOF2 for quite a while	13:02
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dm8tbr	it's not as cool as the memory of 'ye olde games'	13:03
ieatlint	perhaps i got bitter after it kept crashing at random	13:03
dm8tbr	but it was ok to pass some time, especially after kicking up the notch to the harder modes	13:04
dm8tbr	that didn't happen too often to me :)	13:04
dm8tbr	and save early-save-often helped too :D	13:04
ieatlint	release version more stable perhaps	13:04
frals	wonder how the hell to make a ui for this: https://twitter.com/#!/frals/status/125144449478180864/photo/1	13:05
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ieatlint	are you refering to modifying the standby screen?	13:06
frals	yeah	13:06
ieatlint	dunno... it's either qml or mtf	13:06
ieatlint	never tried to look	13:07
ieatlint	actually, i have a question, for people with a release n9... when you play music via the built-in player, does the lock screen show you the current song and have basic next/prev and pause/play buttons?	13:07
dm8tbr	mh, let me check	13:08
frals	ieatlint: no it does not ;)	13:09
dm8tbr	the lock screen shows controls for me	13:09
ieatlint	:(	13:10
ieatlint	wait, which one is it?	13:10
hiemanshu	ieatlint: the other one :P	13:10
ieatlint	bah	13:10
ieatlint	i'll kill you all	13:10
hiemanshu	:)	13:10
ieatlint	http://i.imgur.com/kFl6R.jpg is what i'm referring to for reference	13:11
dm8tbr	ah, a white one...	13:12
ieatlint	apparently	13:13
frals	ieatlint: source of pic?	13:13
ieatlint	burma	13:14
frals	ieatlint: was thinkin more of the lines of a url or where you found it :D	13:14
ieatlint	friend sent it to me	13:15
ieatlint	does the origin matter that much, or is the inference that it's fake?	13:15
dm8tbr	tightie whities are not on sale, so it was probably at some event with nokia people ;)	13:15
rantom	:o	13:16
rantom	White N9?	13:16
ieatlint	probably just a sea ray	13:16
dm8tbr	LOL	13:16
artemma	pink one is the best :)	13:16
rantom	Grrh	13:16
rantom	The "now playing"	13:16
* artemma sees lots of N9 VS Sea ray reviews all over the blogosphere. Well, if at least one of them becomes real popular		13:17
dm8tbr	artemma: 'reviews' of something that hasn't been announced yet? LOL	13:17
artemma	that would be a moment for real harmattan evaluation - phones are too close HW wise	13:17
artemma	Nokia world is coming	13:17
artemma	guess what will be announced	13:18
ieatlint	frals: anyway, i don't have the device, sadly... have gotten to play with a couple n9s, but was sent this with little explanation a week or so ago	13:18
artemma	disclaimer: I am not in the Nokia for months by now, so that;s just my guess	13:18
dm8tbr	artemma: gues what hasn't been announced yet and so can't be reviewed, can it?	13:18
ieatlint	and was curious if the release n9s had it, as they're supposedly 34-1 and the n950 at 34-2 doesn't	13:18
ieatlint	and this is the first white n9 pic, there are a few out there	13:19
dm8tbr	just look at some of the nokia videos about designing the N9 ;)	13:19
ieatlint	even a rumour it will be released next year	13:19
kimju	note that the current n950 is from different branch 1.2011, afaik n9 is 10.2011...	13:20
rantom	Can you even control the music playback in the N9 lock screen?	13:20
rantom	Because I can't find any option to that in the settings	13:20
ieatlint	dunno, no one gave me a straight answer	13:20
kimju	bigger is not necessarily better, just another branch	13:20
rantom	Might be a newer fw	13:21
frals	ieatlint: rantom: no, you can not	13:21
ieatlint	huh	13:21
rantom	frals: Ok. So that white N9 pic might be a fake	13:21
ieatlint	shame, was hoping it was something i'd get when i finally pony up the cash to buy an n9 :(	13:21
frals	time for pizza and tbbt, o/	13:21
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dm8tbr	rantom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxUymqLGG-M 1:31 ;)	13:22
rantom	dm8tbr: What about that?	13:24
rantom	dm8tbr: ah, yeah, white backcover	13:24
rantom	I'd guess then an early prototype	13:25
dm8tbr	who knows	13:25
rantom	Yep	13:25
rantom	I'm more interested about the playback control now though	13:26
dm8tbr	bottom line: those devices do exist, but you apparently can't buy them :)	13:26
rantom	Like the N950	13:26
ieatlint	you just need to find out who to mug	13:26
rantom	:D	13:26
dm8tbr	hrhr	13:27
artemma	rantom: I see quite interesting business opportunity in replacing the lock screen ;)	13:27
artemma	means lots of research though and may happen to be impossible	13:27
ieatlint	nokia won't approve it	13:27
rantom	purple	13:27
rantom	http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/24030359/AIO-S-Line-Wave-Gel-Case-For-Nokia-N9-Purple/Product.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchsource=0&searchstring=nokia+n9&urlrefer=search	13:27
rantom	:P	13:27
dm8tbr	I remember that even getting the bouncing notification on the lock screen is impossible (as you can't get the necessary credentials)	13:28
artemma	well, one thing I'd be really interested in having is not whole screen replacement, but unlocking algorithm	13:28
rantom	artemma: nah. It'd be nice to have it but I can live without it	13:28
artemma	double tap + drag for unlock is very cool, but it's butt detection sucks	13:28
dm8tbr	artemma: I hear someone did a swiping lock screen for the n900	13:28
artemma	unlocks way too often in the pocket	13:29
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hiemanshu	I just disabled double tap unlock	13:29
ieatlint	huh, i've never had my n950 unlock in my pocket	13:29
artemma	hiemanshu: I did the same for a while	13:29
artemma	then I learned to put it in the topcket different side	13:29
hiemanshu	I have the balance drop from a thousand to zero	13:30
tomma	double tap unlock can open it easily, but it also opens screen when message or call comes	13:30
artemma	and then somehow it stopped unlocking on its own - maybe I changed jeans :)	13:30
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* gri always has the n950 in a case so it won't get any scratches or unlock in the pocket		14:21
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Lilltiger	I am trying to mount a NFS share on my Nokia N9, but when mounting as root, i get a permission denied from bindresvport, but i cant find an /etc/hosts.allow file, so where is therights for the deamons set?	16:42
DocScrutinizer	see	16:44
DocScrutinizer	~aegis	16:44
infobot	http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif	16:44
DocScrutinizer	and http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575	16:45
Lilltiger	DocScrutinizer youu just get that from #meego, so damn stupid	16:45
Lilltiger	still no way to disable that crap?	16:45
DocScrutinizer	sorry what?	16:46
SpeedEvil	I note javispedros page listing capailities does not list capabilities available from the ovi store.	16:46
SpeedEvil	Is there a list?	16:46
Lilltiger	Aegis that is,.	16:46
Lilltiger	all it does is preventing me from doing things I want to be able to do	16:46
DocScrutinizer	read:	16:47
DocScrutinizer	and http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575	16:47
DocScrutinizer	!!!	16:47
DocScrutinizer	and don't forget there's a thanks button to hit!	16:47
Lilltiger	I had read that erlier but see now that there is alot of new posts :)	16:48
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Lilltiger	DocScrutinizer: hmm :'( I cant find the thanks button tries alt+f4 :p	16:49
SpeedEvil	you need to login	16:49
DocScrutinizer	Lilltiger: a lot of "The Following 26 Users Say Thank You For This Useful Post: <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous>" wouldn't help much eh? Register! Log in!	16:51
Lilltiger	Well that anonymous dude is pretty famous on 4chan!	16:52
DocScrutinizer	registering is (way too) painless anyway	16:54
DocScrutinizer	unless you dare to use another browser than FF or NSIE	16:54
DocScrutinizer	s/ N/ M/	16:54
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: unless you dare to use another browser than FF or MSIE	16:54
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Lilltiger	work on Chrome	16:55
Lilltiger	:p	16:55
DocScrutinizer	with standard promiscuous settings for cookies yes	16:55
Lilltiger	mmm	16:55
DocScrutinizer	maybe meanwhile they fixed some huger flaws	16:55
Lilltiger	I would never say no to a free cookie!	16:56
DocScrutinizer	your mother didn't educate you well ;-P	16:56
Lilltiger	Well I would never get into a van, unless there where cookies and milk in it!	16:57
DocScrutinizer	fact is devel.nokia.com and seems also meego.com did a stupid thing of never deleting old session cookies, so you couldn't log in again afzer session expired	16:58
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DocScrutinizer	unless your browser treated all cookies as delete-at-session-end which is the default in FF afaik	17:01
Lilltiger	the open kernel seems great, but i guess ill wait a little while for it to get a bit more stability	17:02
DocScrutinizer	(a bit of handwaving in all the above - but it looked like that when I made it work in Konqueror)	17:03
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Lilltiger	I miss Konqi	17:03
DocScrutinizer	Lilltiger: sure, the "open kernel" is just a PoC for now	17:03
Lilltiger	been in Wincrap way to long.. stupid games	17:03
oprwww	hello, guys! does somebody know where's the alarmclock settings stored on N9? and if it's possible to make alarm clock play alarm more than 3 times?	17:04
Lilltiger	mmm, just hope they will get it to work :D	17:04
DocScrutinizer	we will, you bet	17:05
DocScrutinizer	I need it, javispedro needs it to	17:05
DocScrutinizer	too*	17:05
Lilltiger	I bouhgt the phone thinking it was a fully open linux so got quite dissapointe	17:06
DocScrutinizer	yeah, pretty much a bait&switch of Nokia	17:06
Lilltiger	mmm, it's a pretty neat phone	17:06
Lilltiger	and the battery time is awsome	17:07
DocScrutinizer	the HW is quite OK'ish (if you like kbd free chocolate bar phones)	17:07
DocScrutinizer	the GUI, well not my cup of tea, but YMMV	17:08
DocScrutinizer	the paegis desaster though.... :-(((	17:08
Lilltiger	well true, could have been alot better HW, I kinda like the gui, with the app that allowed me to set the swipe actions so i can close apps by swiping down	17:08
Lilltiger	but then i mostly use it to stream video	17:09
Lilltiger	emm not stream, watch	17:09
DocScrutinizer	stream video? hmm, strange - flash somehow fails to work here	17:09
DocScrutinizer	:-P	17:09
Lilltiger	boring work, so i watch videos on the phone while working	17:09
Lilltiger	well there is an awsome stream app! the TED talks app!	17:10
Velmont	I knew it was retarted, but I put my hopes in someone breaking it and being able to run full open goodiness on it in a few years :D	17:10
DocScrutinizer	a few months :-D	17:10
faenil	a few days maybe :P	17:10
Lilltiger	tomorrow i will have had mine for 1 week, it's getting old!	17:11
DocScrutinizer	faenil: too optimistic, introducing open mode will break quite a number of things, and we have to work around these, ans also find a sane safe way to switch back to normal mode	17:11
faenil	yeah :)	17:12
Velmont	I had my G1 up until now, -- and I can work with long timespans :-) However, I love when people fix things quick. But I'm used to FOSS-development, some things just take time :-)	17:13
DocScrutinizer	javispedro, me, a few others are talking in a less public channel and not every latest finding gets published on FMC	17:13
Lilltiger	Velmont: like a good DE, still no realy good ones to linux :p	17:13
faenil	that's why javispedro has been silent lately :P	17:14
faenil	quiet..	17:15
DocScrutinizer	javispedro is one of the few guys that still have a real life and nevertheless contribute to maemo/meego a lot	17:15
Lilltiger	maybe he just pretends to have a real life?	17:16
DocScrutinizer	as long as he doesn't take a 6 months timeout like summer one year ago, I'm just happy with his performance	17:16
DocScrutinizer	for now we'd need a savvy kernel maintainer to care about keeping a fua-pk up to date	17:19
DocScrutinizer	and up to date here really means no more than maybe a week delay from new official HARM kernel to updated version of fua-pk	17:21
Lilltiger	I lack the time and knowledge :/	17:21
faenil	same here..	17:22
DocScrutinizer	most of us do	17:22
faenil	that's the problem :	17:22
faenil	:)	17:22
Lilltiger	I dont even find the time to work on my project that aims for me to be able to quit my boring job, and that tears me apart	17:22
DocScrutinizer	the real problem is Nokia managed to even alienate original fremantle PK maintainer Titan	17:23
DocScrutinizer	like a large number of other gifted hackers likewise	17:23
Lilltiger	Elop have just been soooo good for Nokia...	17:24
Lilltiger	hehe	17:24
dm8tbr	DocScrutinizer: is there a patchset?	17:24
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: for the rev0.1 fua-pk the patchset is just <void>, it's simply a build of original kernel without Nokia signature	17:25
DocScrutinizer	first patch however is the aegis neutering	17:25
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DocScrutinizer	then import and adapt the fremantle kernel-power patchset	17:26
DocScrutinizer	would be a good dtart	17:26
DocScrutinizer	start*	17:26
DocScrutinizer	dm8tbr: you're on board of H-E-N9 effort, which basically hosts fua-pk atm	17:27
DocScrutinizer	so check your chanlogs over there ;-)	17:27
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mgedmin	isn't the N9 LED supposed to turn on while it's charging?	18:12
mgedmin	does it even have a LED message light?	18:12
dm8tbr	it's got an oled screen, so plenty of LEDs ;)	18:13
tomma	N950 led flashes when it is charging	18:18
faenil	it doesn't flash, it fades in and out :)	18:22
tomma	slow motion flashing =)	18:22
faenil	:D :D	18:23
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gri	I wonder when I will see the first n9 in public	18:24
piggz	help fellow harmattan devs.....im not seeing andy console.log message from my qml app...they work fone on the desktop, but nothing when run on the phone, either from the terminal or via remote debugging	18:25
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faenil	u're writing from the phone right? :D	18:33
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frals	hmm, which file could i grep to check if a file is aegis protected?	19:07
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SpeedEvil	something restok	19:07
SpeedEvil	find / -maxdepth 4 -name "restok"	19:08
frals	found it i guess	19:08
frals	/var/lib/aegis/refhashlist	19:08
DocScrutinizer	yup	19:08
SpeedEvil	ah	19:08
SpeedEvil	Ok - not.	19:08
DocScrutinizer	frals: NB the pthnames in there are missing the initial /	19:10
DocScrutinizer	meanwhile:	19:10
DocScrutinizer	RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# id	19:10
DocScrutinizer	uid=0(root) gid=0(root)id: can't get groups	19:10
DocScrutinizer	anybody else seeing this on an aegis-neutered system?	19:11
DocScrutinizer	(nuttin in syslog btw)	19:13
Ans5i	maybe you can try to give CAP:: .. but no i haven't seen it	19:14
Velmont	zz_gri: I've been flasing my N9 quite a lot these days.	19:21
DocScrutinizer	frals: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-10-07.log.html#t2011-10-07T11:46:12	19:24
frals	DocScrutinizer: cheers	19:24
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: dm8tbr: sure N9 has a indicator LED, according to schematics and mce.ini	19:27
mgedmin	so why is it off all the time?	19:28
Velmont	It's not.	19:28
Velmont	It's on when charging.	19:28
mgedmin	are you saying my N9 is broken?	19:28
mgedmin	already?	19:28
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: because of paegis forbidding proper usage ;-P	19:28
Velmont	mgedmin: Slowly pulsating. -- If you don't see it, yes, it must be broken :-)	19:28
mgedmin	:D	19:28
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mgedmin	I could try rebooting it	19:29
Velmont	mgedmin: Or maybe it's just in your blindspot :]	19:29
dm8tbr	it could be right next to the connector or somewhere similarly hidden	19:29
DocScrutinizer	or they forgot to build a transparent window to the case for it XP	19:29
mgedmin	I've never even seen my blind spot	19:29
dm8tbr	that's how it is on my E7	19:29
mgedmin	I don't believe I have one :)	19:29
Velmont	It's down to the left at the bottom. -- The small front-camera is to the right, the indicator is to the left. You can't see it when it's off, because it's hidden behind the black finish.	19:30
Velmont	Actually, I can see it when I take my N9 under good light.	19:31
DocScrutinizer	mhm	19:31
Velmont	But it's easy to see when it's pulsating, at least :-)	19:31
* mgedmin shrugs		19:31
mgedmin	doesn't pulsate here...	19:31
mgedmin	I can't explain why	19:31
mgedmin	if I unlock it, I can verify that it is charging fine	19:32
DocScrutinizer	only does that when hooked up to a charger I guess	19:32
DocScrutinizer	or for s short period during bootup	19:32
mgedmin	didn't even see that when I rebooted it just now	19:32
mgedmin	so maybe it is broken	19:32
DocScrutinizer	maybe	19:32
mgedmin	oh well everything else works	19:32
mgedmin	at least	19:33
piggz	faenil: no, just bad typing clearly!!	19:33
faenil	piggz : OK :D	19:33
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: you might try what's the result of #> echo 100 >`find /sys -name brightness; or the more elaborated equivalent with full pathname	19:34
DocScrutinizer	might still be allowed under develsh	19:34
DocScrutinizer	can't verify here on my "rooted" system	19:35
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DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: sorry never mind. Seems this doesn't work even on a de-aegified N950	19:40
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DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: it works for the kbd bl LEDs, but not for the indicator LED of N950	19:43
DocScrutinizer	dunno why	19:43
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Venemo_N900	good afternoon everyone	19:44
DocScrutinizer	LP552* might have a program loaded that defeats any direct brightness change for the indicator LED	19:44
DocScrutinizer	hi Venemo_N900	19:44
faenil	hi Venemo_N900 :)	19:44
Venemo_N900	hey faenil & DocScrutinizer :)	19:45
DocScrutinizer	for those willing to experiment: open kbd slide, lock screen, execute #> for i in `seq 0 8`; do echo 100 > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032/leds/lp5523:channel${i }/brightness; done	19:46
* Venemo_N900 is bored		19:46
Venemo_N900	still 1 hour until I arrive	19:46
faenil	where :)	19:46
Venemo_N900	home	19:47
faenil	oh :S	19:47
DocScrutinizer	s/ i/i/	19:47
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: for those willing to experiment: open kbd slide, lock screen, execute #> fori in `seq 0 8`; do echo 100 > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032/leds/lp5523:channel${i }/brightness; done	19:47
DocScrutinizer	s/i }/i}/	19:47
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: for those willing to experiment: open kbd slide, lock screen, execute #> for i in `seq 0 8`; do echo 100 > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032/leds/lp5523:channel${i}/brightness; done	19:47
RST38h	Doc: So, what is the latest status on aegis-free maemo6?	19:47
Venemo_N900	faenil, I'm traveling from Budapest to Kaposvár by train. there I'll need to change to a bus	19:48
RST38h	Doc: I checked out javispedro's thread from the point where kernel sources became available, but it was too long to make a conclusion	19:48
faenil	Venemo_N900: I see...	19:48
Venemo_N900	RST38h, you can flash an aegisfree kernel	19:48
DocScrutinizer	eagis-neutered kernel bots, HARM system starts, accli says "open mode", several systems (like certs, account manager, etc) blow chunks - expected outcome	19:48
DocScrutinizer	boots*	19:49
RST38h	ok. no account manager => cannot log into any accounts like gmail/fb/etc ?	19:49
DocScrutinizer	yet to get proper evaluation	19:50
RST38h	aha	19:50
DocScrutinizer	the impact is complex and sometimes subtle	19:50
Venemo_N900	RST38h, I think there is a patch that makes the system believe that aegis is enabled, while it is disabled.	19:50
DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: that doesn't help much in a number of cases, as aegisfs can't work as expected when TPM got locked by NOLO booting to an "open" kernel	19:51
DocScrutinizer	mount\|grep aegisfs	19:51
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, omg :(	19:51
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DocScrutinizer	to get an idea where the gremlins sit	19:52
Venemo_N900	well, I can not, as I don't have an N9(50) atm	19:54
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DocScrutinizer	http://paste.debian.net/136788/	19:54
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, but I'll just believe you :)	19:54
strank	does anyone know how to change the hostname on an N9? Default is RM696, editing /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts has no effect, even after reboot	19:56
DocScrutinizer	Venemo_N900: seems like most of those aegisfs are "ro" without TPM, but not really encrypted	19:57
Venemo_N900	strank, does 'hostname yournewfancyhostname' have an effect?	19:57
Venemo_N900	DocScrutinizer, mhm	19:57
strank	yes: operation not permitted :-(	19:57
strank	(and it would not be permanent)	19:57
Venemo_N900	mhmm.	19:57
DocScrutinizer	on fremantle changing the bluetooth device name did the trick	19:57
strank	did that already, no effect	19:58
DocScrutinizer	:-/	19:58
DocScrutinizer	you used develsh?	19:58
strank	currently "devel-su -" but I assume that's the same environment	19:58
Venemo_N900	not the same	19:59
DocScrutinizer	not sure about it	19:59
strank	ok, i'll check	19:59
strank	no change with devel-sh AFAICT	20:00
DocScrutinizer	http://paste.debian.net/136790/	20:00
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QtK	hi I have v 1.2011.34-2_PR_RM680 running on my N950, but am unable to download any app from Nokia Store. It says Service unavailable. Any idea on how to fix this issue.	20:48
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* artemma was failing to understand how come log file is not being created. 10 min later I figured that right side of terminal window was moved beyond the screen exactly so that last column of ls output was beyond the screen :)		20:57
SpeedEvil	:)	20:57
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DocScrutinizer	QtK: maybe weekend repo downtime?	20:59
QtK	no I am having this issue from this tuesday	21:00
QtK	every time I get the same error	21:00
QtK	Can see the content, but cannot login.	21:01
DocScrutinizer	hmm, what exactly is throwing this error?	21:01
DocScrutinizer	I mean, is this browser which is called via "OVI" app icon?	21:02
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QtK	I get this msg "Service currently unavailable" when I try to signin to my Nokia Account to download app	21:03
DocScrutinizer	aaah nokia account "service not available"	21:04
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QtK	yes	21:04
DocScrutinizer	a very "popular" one	21:04
DocScrutinizer	nobody really found the root cause	21:05
QtK	yes, but didnt get a solution	21:05
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you got it sorted meanwhile?	21:05
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artemma	in C++ I fail to connect QML signal to C++ slot and can't get the reason. Is there some way to get more detailed info on why connect failed?	21:06
QtK	reading forum posts and IRC logs I came to know that this issue was faced in previous firmware versions too. Thought it might have been fixed in the new one.	21:07
faenil	well if you're trying to connect to a qt slot	21:08
faenil	it should work by default	21:08
faenil	as long as you have exposed the current context	21:09
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: 90%	21:14
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I flashed beta2, and it started working - though I can't link my twitter account.	21:14
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berndhs	artemma: usually its typos in names or parameter types, there is no compile time checking for that	21:15
artemma	berndhs: I suspect that qml signal isn't created, because I want to run qml without gui..	21:15
artemma	maybe I should google about how you print all the available signals of the object	21:16
berndhs	sure it could be that the qml exporting the signal isn't loaded at the time the connect is called in C++	21:17
artemma	hmm	21:17
artemma	I load qml like this:	21:17
artemma	QDeclarativeComponent component(&engine, CrossPlatformUtils::localAdjustPath("qml/flickrwallpapers/FlickrSourcModel.qml"));	21:17
artemma	QObject* flickrModel = component.create();	21:17
artemma	And I had an idea that by the moment of component.create() return the component is actually created	21:18
berndhs	is there a status on the component that tells you if it is loaded completely ?	21:18
QtK	SpeedEvil: I too am using beta2 version only. And am facing the issue with Twitter account login too. Only Facebook login works.	21:18
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artemma	well, there is a signal Component.onCompleted	21:18
SpeedEvil	I've not tried twitter - just setup ovi account	21:19
artemma	it's not a signal of an object itself	21:19
artemma	hmm, maybe I could monitor it still	21:19
berndhs	yes you could check if that point has been reached by the time connect(...) is called	21:19
artemma	wow, indeed create() seems to be asynchronous, documentation just doesn't mention it explicitly	21:21
artemma	thanks	21:21
QtK	probably I should try flashing it again with beta2	21:25
Venemo_N900	artemma, there are plenty of examples about component.oncompleted on google	21:28
artemma	Venemo_N900: that's on qml side	21:28
artemma	I am in c++ for now	21:28
Venemo_N900	artemma, oh.	21:28
Venemo_N900	artemma, what's the problem you are trying to solve?	21:28
artemma	I want to create a qml component and once it is created, I want to connect its signal to c++ slot	21:29
artemma	do you need to connect exactly to qobject's slot?	21:30
Venemo_N900	you can connect those in qml.	21:30
artemma	I am not excited about creating an extra object for just a single statement slot	21:30
artemma	Venemo_N900: yes I can, but it makes more sence in c++ this time. Well, maybe, still thinking	21:31
Venemo_N900	artemma, by creating a qml component, do you mean that you are creating a QDeclarativeItem subclass?	21:31
artemma	I create QDeclarativeComponent	21:32
artemma	then call its create()	21:32
Venemo_N900	mhmm	21:32
artemma	well, I think I'll go for qml side workaround	21:32
artemma	thanks	21:32
Venemo_N900	so you actually instantiate a qml item from c++?	21:32
artemma	that way I know	21:32
artemma	Venemo_N900: yes	21:32
Venemo_N900	artemma, aaah.	21:32
artemma	thing is 95% of my app logic is in QML	21:33
artemma	but one of use cases involves nonGui activation	21:33
Venemo_N900	and why don't you do it the other way around?	21:33
artemma	and I want to reuse logic that's already in qml	21:33
artemma	that is kind'of a command line utility call	21:33
Venemo_N900	I prefer instantiating my C++ classes in QML, not my QML items in C++	21:34
artemma	that instantiates something on QML side, waits until it's done and continues	21:34
artemma	me too	21:34
Venemo_N900	mhm.	21:34
artemma	this case is a little different though	21:34
artemma	whatever, I think I am going for qml workaround	21:34
Venemo_N900	ok	21:34
artemma	it's easy to make qml object connect to c++ when qml is ready	21:35
Venemo_N900	yeah	21:35
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Venemo_N900	and.	21:35
Venemo_N900	don't write app logics in qml :P	21:35
artemma	of course I will write app logic in qml	21:35
Venemo_N900	omg.	21:35
artemma	"qml only for UI" only means "we are not sure it's good enough for logic"	21:36
Venemo_N900	I only tend to write gui logic in qml. app logic I leave in c++	21:36
artemma	depends on the amount of gui in your app	21:36
Venemo_N900	mhm.	21:36
artemma	if I was doing a file copy utility I'd probably skipped qml	21:36
Venemo_N900	hehe	21:37
artemma	mine is a kind of specific flickr viewer	21:37
Venemo_N900	eh. the f*cking bus is late and I'm freezing.	21:37
artemma	that has to know how to perform some related actions from command line	21:37
artemma	Venemo_N900: don't time on the cold keyboard then ;)	21:37
Venemo_N900	the keyboard isn't cold	21:38
artemma	hmm, how to I inject C++ object into qml if I only have QDeclarativeEngine?	21:38
Venemo_N900	and IRCing makes me not focus on the cold and on waiting. waiting is boring.	21:38
artemma	can't see how to get to its context	21:38
Venemo_N900	artemma, you need to register your c++ class with qmlRegisterType	21:39
Venemo_N900	or one of its variants	21:39
artemma	ah	21:39
Venemo_N900	then you can use it in C++	21:39
artemma	I think I was using just setContextProperty	21:39
artemma	without any registration	21:39
Venemo_N900	if you want to set a context variable, I can't tell you that off the top of my head	21:40
artemma	I don't need to register type, just inject one object	21:40
artemma	ok, never mind, I'll browse the docs	21:40
Venemo_N900	yeah, I get it.	21:40
Venemo_N900	finally! bus is here	21:40
Venemo_N900	I want to move to a tropical island. I hate this cold weather.	21:42
lardman_	I really do hate qml anchors	21:43
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lardman\|home	anyone know of a way to get the length in pixels of a text object's contents?	21:44
Venemo_N900	why? anchors are good.	21:44
lardman\|home	yeah the idea is good, but I can't seem to get things to work very well	21:44
Venemo_N900	they're lots better than the way it's done in XAML	21:44
lardman\|home	despite anchoring things together, they are all stuck on top of one another	21:45
Venemo_N900	hmmm	21:45
lardman\|home	this is a listview delegate so perhaps it dislikes certain things, like parents	21:45
Venemo_N900	perhaps.	21:45
* lardman\|home will keep hacking away at it after supper		21:45
* lardman\|home suspends laptop, bbl		21:46
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ajalkane	listview delegate's parent is the listview. So of course they'll stack on top of each other :-)	21:50
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Scifig	I downloaded telepathy-mission-control-5-dbg_5.7.11-0maemo9+0m6_armel.deb from harmattan-dev.nokia.com. The binary throws an error "line 1: syntax error: unexpected word (expecting ")")" on N950.	21:52
Scifig	Anyway to workaround this ^^?	21:53
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* Venemo_N900 is finally home! ttyl guys		22:02
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lardman\|home	ajalkane: I just read the logs and yeah I realised that, though I'm actually using an Item to wrap the delegate and that's the parent I was thinking of	22:35
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ajalkane	lardman\|home: remember to specify height for the Item then	22:38
ajalkane	otherwise it's probably zero height so that would explain the stacking also	22:38
lardman\|home	yeah I thought I'd set the heights, but perhaps I missed one out	22:40
lardman\|home	how does one deal with e.g. Labels or Text items, where you only want the object to be as tall as the text it contains?	22:40
lardman\|home	can I find out how tall/long some text will be in pixels?	22:40
ajalkane	I'm no expert, but I think the Label/Text's width/height is as what's required by the text	22:41
lardman\|home	in which case my delegate ought to not need me to set any other heights	22:42
lardman\|home	I'll do some more experimentation	22:42
lardman\|home	thanks :)	22:42
ajalkane	well, delegate's are another kind of beast so that's not the whole story... but experimentation and impending frustration leads to eventual enlightenment :p	22:43
ajalkane	or confusion, but eventually working code... anyway.	22:43
lardman\|home	lol	22:44
lardman\|home	I had some working code, and I've no clue what it was about that code that made it work	22:44
ajalkane	been there. Looked at the code later, figured out it's awful. But not dared to touch it anymore.	22:45
lardman\|home	yeah, am tempted to go back to that original code, but I do hate a mystery... ;)	22:47
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lardman\|home	and lots of messages in the terminal warning me about various bad things that I'm apparently doing even though the code is working	22:47
ajalkane	I can't stand warnings.	22:48
ajalkane	They make me do all kind of weird shit just to get them away	22:48
lardman\|home	:)	22:48
ajalkane	It's kinda stupid, but I can't help it.	22:48
lardman\|home	same here, I'd like it to all be clean	22:48
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lardman\|home	but dirty >> broken in the grand scheme of things	22:49
lardman\|home	ok, so more questions - states, are states triggered at app startup? and if one performs an AnchorChange {} does that reset all anchors other than the ones you set?	22:50
ajalkane	yeah. I do dirty things, because of time restraints etc., but for some reason warnings are something I can't stand. Even though they are often much less benign really than for example abusing APIs	22:50
lardman\|home	I imagine that perhaps that is my problem, I need to reset all the anchors in the states rather than assuming that some will be left unaltered	22:51
* ajalkane has fallen out of his league once states have been mentioned.		22:51
ajalkane	Just now I used QSettings("MyApplicationName", "configfile"), even though that's clearly wrong. Anyone know what's the correct way to have Settings in .config/MyAppName/configfile.ini ?	22:53
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ajalkane	(assuming I want to use QSettings for convenience)	22:54
lardman\|home	I think you can specify the complete path to an ini file as one of the method call options	22:54
ajalkane	lardman\|home: yes I can, but I hate hard-coded paths. If I'm going to hard-code it's going to be platform specific, and in that case abusing API is not much worse. A little but not much.	22:55
lardman\|home	in which case I'm not sure, sorry	22:55
ajalkane	But I think you're right anyway, it'd be cleaner.	22:56
ajalkane	Well, there's an IMPROVE in the code, I don't want to lose time in it for now :(	22:56
* lardman\|home gets back on with his IMPROVE which is to get the UI usable		22:57
lardman\|home	bloody UIs... who needs those hey?	22:57
ajalkane	UIs are kinda annoying. Girlfriends/wifes are quite useful in figuring out how usable the UIs are though. Just got lots of little work todo just by showing to wifey the app. Okay I hated the suggestions, but she had good point :(	22:58
ajalkane	Hated the suggestions mainly because it meant more work just as when I thought I'm about to be done	22:59
lardman\|home	I fear our 7 week old is taking most of my wife's time atm, though once I work out what's wrong with these anchors I will see if I can rock the baby and get her to take a look-see	22:59
lardman\|home	and most of mine too, I should add	23:00
ajalkane	Them wives, always attenting to that baby UI :(	23:00
ajalkane	Mine's now 11 months, so I had a chance to give the wife a peek	23:01
lardman\|home	well it does have some advantages, there are certain functions I can't fulfill!	23:01
ajalkane	Hmm? You can't suck tit?	23:01
ajalkane	Oh, you were talking about the baby's needs.	23:02
lardman\|home	:)	23:03
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Venemo_webchat	lol	23:05
ajalkane	N950 is a pleasure now to use as developmen device as I finally got the WiFi connection working, so that I don't have to plug-in to USB to have ssh connection to N950 working or to deploy app to it	23:07
ajalkane	What a fight with the damn ADSL modem	23:07
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artemma	anybody from Tampere here?	23:09
bindi	no.. but curious, why?	23:10
artemma	I am thinking if I want to go out for a beer or not :)	23:10
* lardman\|home takes a swig of wine and votes yes		23:11
artemma	thing is I do want to complete an app this weekend so don't want to go for a real party	23:11
* ajalkane sips beer, and readies the wine glass, and also votes yes		23:11
artemma	but just a beer wouldn't hurt, right?	23:11
lardman\|home	though I've never been to Finland, so can't help with pub choice	23:11
artemma	I live in the very downtown, so bars are all around me	23:11
lardman\|home	well, hardly a decision at all then surely? ;)	23:12
artemma	ok, maybe after I finish refactoring of the lately typed code	23:12
* lardman\|home wonders about going to the pub tomorrow morning at 8.30 to watch the rugby, but thinks that watching from bed might be better		23:12
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ajalkane	Probably depends if you want to have a beer or two while watching. I think most wives would object to taking beer at 8.30 morning.	23:14
artemma	they may object more if taking beer at 8:30 happens in the bed..	23:20
ajalkane	yeah better be out of the line-of-vision of the wife when indulging on such activities	23:21
ajalkane	* line-of-sight	23:21
lardman\|home	well I imagine we will have both been up for a couple of hours so not so bad perhaps	23:23
lardman\|home	perhaps if I brought her a glass of wine at the same time....	23:23
frals	anyone got the url to javispedro icongenerator thingy?	23:24
ajalkane	Clever. Now you just have to figure out what you're "celebrating". It can't be the rugby match. Something like, "we met this day, 6 years and 78 days ago. I think it calls for celebration"	23:25
artemma	there is no InfoBanner element in Harmattan QML components, is there?	23:25
ajalkane	artemma: in extras	23:25
artemma	So I need to dive into c++ if I want to show a banner ?	23:25
ajalkane	An InfoBanner that shows in application is there, but system wide no	23:25
artemma	oh, I didn't realize com.nokia.extras work on Harmattan	23:26
ajalkane	Yeah they work	23:26
artemma	I would probably prefer system-wide one and even tried calling one from c++, but it's too hard when you get a non-GUI app	23:26
artemma	and for GUI use case, in-app may be good enough and easy	23:26
artemma	though.. hmm, actually system wide one would make some more sense even for GUI	23:27
artemma	that was something like MBanner if i remember correctly	23:27
ajalkane	Something like that... if you're not afraid of diving into MTF that could make sense. Lots of included apps use it so it should not be too hard	23:28
artemma	yeah, a bit of MTF is ok	23:28
lardman\|home	ajalkane: lol, I like it	23:28
artemma	I dropped it earlier because it was too hard in non gui case (it wanted some reference to scene or something like that)	23:29
artemma	no, MBanner is in process, MNotification is global!	23:29
ajalkane	That's weird as lots of include background apps use it. So it should be doable without any scenes	23:29
artemma	but.. I think MNotification is a very small one, isn't it	23:29
artemma	ajalkane: it is definitely possible, just needed too much API juggling for me	23:30
ajalkane	I think the one appearing in the status bar	23:30
artemma	yeah, I want something more like real banner	23:30
artemma	like "battery charged" one	23:30
ajalkane	I'm not aware of any larger system wide one	23:30
ajalkane	ah...	23:30
ajalkane	yeah	23:30
ajalkane	dunno how that's done	23:30
artemma	ok, so it's either big in app or small global	23:31
artemma	small global... hmm.. then I'll probably go for just QML banner for now	23:31
artemma	thanks	23:31
ajalkane	artemma: check the BoostedWG app, I think it has an example for what you want	23:32
artemma	yep, Boosted WG is what I was thinking about	23:32
ajalkane	There's "System Information Banner" that should be that	23:32
artemma	I think I had a look at it and that was also in process banner	23:33
artemma	http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/libmeegotouch/blobs/master/demos/widgetsgallery/bannerspage.cpp	23:33
artemma	and BTW that example is poorly compatibale with what wizard creates for qml apps	23:33
ajalkane	Oh. Misleading name then. Too bad. It just makes no sense, as there's "Information Banner" (which I'd think is app banner) and "System Information Banner"	23:34
ajalkane	I hate every example I've seen of MTF apps so I've been wary of using any of it	23:34
artemma	well, maybe I missed example in some other part of the project	23:34
ajalkane	* hated	23:34
artemma	indeed, meego source code.. I find most of that hard to read and repeat too\	23:35
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ajalkane	All the middleware I've looked has been OK. But the MTF stuff... As it's deprecated I don't even want to put effort into understanding it	23:36
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lardman\|home	hmm, I see one of my problems - 3 text boxes one above the other, they can't cross reference each other's location, each one should only specify its location relative to the next one	23:36
ieatlint	you're working on the n9/50 and are concerned about things being deprecated?	23:36
ajalkane	ieatlint: I know, crazy. But I'm anal like that.	23:37
ieatlint	unless you're trying to keep everything portable to symbian, i think you can give up :P	23:37
artemma	i checked the WG code. Indeed system banner is just a different banner style	23:37
ajalkane	It's mostly about that I expect I can use QML knowledge in future in somewhere (maybe), but MTF is definitely a dead-end.	23:37
ieatlint	(and in many cases, the symbian version will use old symbian code, so you'll end up with #ifdef in your code all over anyway)	23:38
* artemma dreams about #ifdef in QML code. Sometimes differences in "cross-platform" QML components drive me crazy		23:39
ieatlint	you could do some crazy shit to get ifdef in qml	23:39
ajalkane	artemma: indeed, starting from the import statemets that are different.	23:39
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ieatlint	aside from controlling the context from a c++ backend to push new pages, you can pass the platform as a string to the qml context and then have if/else statements work with a Loader	23:40
artemma	ieatlint: I'd be happy enough if it's for imports only	23:40
ZogG	is there an option to share internet from laptop to n9 under linux?	23:41
artemma	ieatlint: workarounds do exist. I just hate copy-pasting lots of code just because property for icon is called differently	23:41
ieatlint	hehe, yeah	23:41
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ieatlint	it's approached a level where it's almost compatible, but just not compatible enough, and very angry making in the process	23:41
artemma	if there was at least a possibility to tell that it's ok if a particular property is not found. So that it could create the rest of the object	23:42
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