IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-10-15

*** artemma has quit IRC00:04
*** lizardo has quit IRC00:05
*** artemma has joined #harmattan00:09
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC00:18
*** macmaN has quit IRC00:22
*** etrunko has quit IRC00:28
*** andrunko has quit IRC00:29
*** seif has quit IRC00:38
*** seif has joined #harmattan00:40
*** andrunko has joined #harmattan00:41
mikkovgreat, now Ovi Store publishing is re-testing my old content instead of testing the new version :)00:41
*** zarlino has quit IRC00:56
*** lamikr has joined #harmattan01:01
piggzmikkov: well, i had to send a snotty email to developer support becuase they failed my content on the grounds it didnt perform its intended function...and it most certainly does, and ive been using it for a week myself without issues :)01:03
mikkovthey failed mine, because version number shown in application wasn't exactly the as the package version01:04
mikkovand already published version was exactly the same regarding version number...01:05
mikkovreal issue I am trying to fix is power saving and now they re-tested the already published version and noticed that power saving wasn't working, great!01:07
*** druid23 has quit IRC01:08
mikkovand latest version with version number tweak and power saving fix has been in QA queue two days01:09
*** macmaN has joined #harmattan01:12
*** piggz has quit IRC01:14
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan01:15
artemmatwo times they failed my app for not deceasing power use on N900  while in background and 3rd time it passed (after some mailing to support)01:20
artemmafunny thing is that there wasn't even anything to fine-tune. Everything app was about - a single qml screen with some controls01:20
*** baraujo has quit IRC01:27
*** druid23 has quit IRC01:35
*** crevetor has quit IRC01:41
*** smokex950 has joined #harmattan01:42
*** crevetor has joined #harmattan01:50
* DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia would pay real money for *real* testers doing QA in OVI. *If* they would, I'd probably apply, but somehow I'm sure my ideas are not amtching theirs regarding this QA thing01:50
DocScrutinizerand we all know Bangalore is way cheaper ;-P01:51
artemmawell, if you are ready to move to Bangalore maybe.. :)01:52
DocScrutinizerI bet Nokia gives a shit where I live and do my job (well, I hope meanwhile they are that far evolved with their infra and concept) - as long as I don't ask for more per hour than the average Bangalore "IT-expert"01:55
artemmait's enough if you move metally01:56
*** rcg has quit IRC01:56
MohammadAGI'm just impressed how iPhone devs got paid repositories and Nokia failed twice with the N90001:56
MohammadAGI even tried to trick it with apt-get and it returned a 40301:56
*** rcg has joined #harmattan01:59
*** rcg has quit IRC02:00
*** leinir has quit IRC02:00
DocScrutinizerartemma: my mind is evenly spread all over the globe already, it's my grocery that refuses to do that move of mine if I tried to compete with Bangalore02:03
DocScrutinizerOTOH any competition would be just a hands-down battle if Nokia knew what's relevant02:04
*** SpeedEvil has joined #harmattan02:05
*** sp3001 has quit IRC02:05
DocScrutinizerI'm not against Bangalore IT specialists, I'd just insist in hiring and firing them, based on a rules system that looks like "Joerg got asked to review a difficult case: karma++. Joerg got asked to review an obvious case: karma--. Joerg got not asked at all though the case been difficult and decided the wrong way: Bye bangalore-boy!"02:09
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:12
DocScrutinizernokia listen: manpower to hire! :-D02:13
ieatlinti feel sorry for the indians who actually are awesome, because they really get screwed over with the stereotype02:13
DocScrutinizeractually that's a problem02:13
ieatlintbecause yeah, a large percentage of indians seem to have learned programming by reading a book and passing a test, and know surprisingly little about actually programming02:14
DocScrutinizernot in the system I suggested though02:14
*** SpeedEvil has joined #harmattan02:14
ieatlinti've seen some horrid things out of indian :(02:14
ieatlinterr, india02:15
DocScrutinizerthe problem with the system I siggested: Joerg is not available at Bangalore wages02:15
ieatlinti once saw a 2000 main function (no, seriously, not exaggerating)02:15
DocScrutinizerand Nokia isn't aware of any problem02:16
ieatlintanother time i saw a qwidget based app in development for symbian that compiled to 27mb, and when run on my desktop, would consume 80mb of ram and ran so slowly it was unusable -- on my desktop02:16
ieatlinton the phone it was even more of a joke02:16
DocScrutinizercool, just get another 2GB RAM-stick02:17
ieatlintyeah, where do i jam it into the n8?02:18
DocScrutinizerdo you really think Nokia cares at all, after they declared QML the way to go for the next future?02:18
faenilcome on, QML is definitely useful to get more people to develop  apps, and get more apps because it's easier to make UI02:19
DocScrutinizersure, basic is even easier yet02:20
DocScrutinizerwhy not use powerpoint presentations? everybody knows to do those02:21
faenilbecause you can't link them to c++? :)02:21
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: they declared that about the time they started doubling and quadrupling ram on phones02:22
DocScrutinizerlease link a QML app to c++02:22
*** willer_ has quit IRC02:22
ieatlintbut yeah, a week or so ago i stopped in the middle of the day and realized "i'm doing essentially object oriented js linked against a qt backend ... wtf has the world come to"02:23
faenilcome on, you know what I mean02:23
*** leinir has joined #harmattan02:23
*** Natunen has quit IRC02:24
faenilwhy is QML bad then? sum up, few reasons, DocScrutinizer ;)02:24
DocScrutinizeryeah! "don't worry. No matter how many cores and how much RAM you got, we can provide the OS that ensures your PC won't get too fast and pester you while cooking tea" (Windows advertisement. Applies to QML etc too)02:24
faenilbut that's normal...02:25
faenilyou get more tech, and you try to things in easier ways with less time...02:25
faeniltry to do*02:25
faenilyou can't code great UIs with assembly, it would take too long02:26
faenilit comes down to that...time vs efficiency02:26
ieatlintqml2 increases the speed a bit :P02:26
berndhsyeah but the majority of time is spent making UXs shinier, not functionally better02:26
DocScrutinizeryes. 10,000 coders force 1,000,000,000 users to buy 4GB more RAM, so those 10,000 codersa can avoid learning proper coding02:27
*** lamikr has quit IRC02:27
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:27
faenilDoc, that's all too general..02:27
DocScrutinizerno, that's the brutal truth02:28
faenil1) there would not be any apps for the 1billion users if those 10k coders wouldn't have had enough time to write the apps...02:28
faenilI know what you mean, some people do not care about efficiency...02:28
*** SpeedEvil has joined #harmattan02:28
faenilbut that doesn't mean things like QML have to be bad...02:28
berndhsthe intention of most apps is for the user to waste time, it's entertainment02:29
DocScrutinizerthere would, if those 1 bio would spent their money on *real* programmers rather than RAM02:29
faenilberndhs: agree02:29
artemmaproper programming is good, but I code UI in QML ten times better than my colleague does blackberry ui in java02:29
faenilartemma: agree02:29
artemmaand qml even runs faster on a final device02:29
artemmaten times faster I mean02:30
artemmanot better02:30
artemmathough maybe better as well, but it's irrelevant here02:30
berndhswhat the users really need can be done in 0KB, they dont need any of it02:30
artemmaand, boy, you need to see the QML/Javascript code I had to start with. Still it runs decently02:30
DocScrutinizeryeah, and I blow your shit away with a generic app coded in a real coding language with proper toolset02:31
berndhsthe entire industry is frivolous02:31
DocScrutinizerbut hey, if everything else fails there's still overclocking02:31
berndhsso it is not suprising that efficiency is not a priority02:31
artemmaDocScrutinizer: it is pretty hard to be beat a client written in qml with a client done even in assembler. Everything has own top bottleneck and for think clients it's usually network02:32
DocScrutinizersorry you lost me02:32
artemmanobody will notice that your assembler buttons are drawn 5ms earlier02:33
artemmause proper tools for proper stuff02:33
artemmaand if you are not yet ready to move to India, your development time costs a lot02:33
DocScrutinizerhaha, everybody will notice the 800ms for swapping02:33
artemmaso we better optimize for it02:33
faenilwe're not talking about building an app with QML only02:34
DocScrutinizeryeah, good night fellas02:34
artemmaDocScrutinizer: well, for 800ms case you better think about some c++, indeed :)02:34
faenilgood night02:34
artemmafaenil: I do my apps in 95-100% qml02:34
artemmafast and quick02:35
artemmaworks fast and is quick to develop02:35
*** beford has joined #harmattan02:35
artemma+ well maintainable and very well testable02:35
faenilartemma: I don't agree with that, because in that case the slowdown when you have a js logic clear..02:35
faenilunless the app is very easy02:35
faenil? js vs c++02:36
artemmaI didn't get the shutdown thing02:36
faenilif you code app logic in JS02:37
faenilinstead of C++02:37
artemmaindeed, depends on amount and complexity of app logic02:38
artemmaif I was doing 3d gaming I'd think ten times before going for JS02:38
artemmathing is business logic for many-many mobile apps doesn't need any computation at all02:38
artemmago to ovi store business apps sections. I would really wonder how many pages you'll have to scroll before you find any app that indeed is better to have logic in c++02:39
faenilyeah that was what I meant...02:39
artemmaone of the big points about QML is that it is indeed fast enough for many-many UI things02:40
faenilwell...I have seen cases in which difference in UI smoothness was clear, and it was because of js02:40
faenilMy current idea is, use QML for UI (animations, transitions) , and c++ for all the rest02:41
artemmamy experience tells that often clear, maintainable and refactorable app structure means for performance than speed of the underlying language02:41
artemmanot always, but often02:41
artemmaI go further and use C++ for system stuff only. E.g. right now part of my app has to talk to GConf02:41
faenilin some cases, I'd say, but yeah, different opinion here ;)02:41
faenilI see..02:42
faenil.what did you develop?02:42
artemmaas for public stuff, this one for example
artemmamy c++ times were about Nokia's speech synthesis and recognition02:44
faeniloh you were the one talking about sales :)02:44
artemmae.g. if you use "Say caller's name" ringing tone - that was my first work in Nokia02:44
artemmayeah, I am pretty excited02:44
faenil2€ is a lot for an app that has only that feature imho :D (no offence meant ofc...) but if that works, I'm glad for you! :D02:44
faenilwow congrats! :D02:45
artemmato be frank having my app on the 1st place in the biz apps top sellers... means not very good things about all the other folks below02:45
artemmaI cannot tell the sales number (ovi store terms), but I am really pitiful; about the other folks behind me.. and about my own results as well..02:46
faenilI am working on a simple 3d game...but haven't had time to finish it yet :(02:46
artemmagood luck with that!02:46
faenilwait, you can't tell sales number? :O why :O02:46
* artemma can hardly imagine a "simple" 3d game though02:46
artemmaI think there was some clause in ovi store terms02:46
artemmatoo tired to really check it now02:47
faenilcan you say at least how much you get from those 2€?02:47
artemmaoh, that's public02:47
faenilI read an article once on tam hanna's blog02:47
faenilthat said you get like 4 cents out of a 2€ app02:47
artemma70%, but it's only if it sells for 2 eur02:47
artemmathing is price is real different all over the world02:47
faeniloh I see...02:48
artemmayou choose the price point, not the price in euros02:48
artemmaso from China they may indeed get some cents02:48
faenilI see...02:49
artemmawell, we'll see how sales go after people start buying N9s for real02:49
artemmaI don't expect mine to be the real top one02:49
artemmait's quite niche after all02:49
faenilQt Commercial licence costs too much :D02:49
*** faenil_ has joined #harmattan02:52
faenil_connection problem...-.-02:53
*** faenil has quit IRC02:54
faenil_my alterego dropped off..02:54
faenil_artemma u still there? :)02:54
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:55
*** brenner__ has joined #harmattan02:56
artemmagood night folks02:56
artemmalet the speed be with your c++ as well :)02:56
*** SpeedEvil has joined #harmattan02:57
faenil_how much did you pay for the qt licence? just curious :)02:57
artemmait's free02:57
faenil_but you need to pay if you want to sell apps, don't u?02:58
faenil_buy the commercial licence...02:58
artemmasure you don't02:58
artemmanokia would have no apps in this case :)02:58
faenil_lol man I'm such a dumbass then XD02:58
artemmaI didn't study the terms, I think you need to buy commercial if you do devices with qt02:58
artemmabut I am not sure even about that02:58
artemmamaybe you pay for commercial only if you want paid support for looong time02:59
faenil_are you coming to qt dev days by any chance?02:59
artemmae.g. Digia is making paid modifications to qt for some commercial licensees02:59
*** lawl0r has quit IRC02:59
faenil_I see..03:00
artemmaI am speaking at the local meetups for now :)03:00
artemmathing is I am not really a qt person03:00
faenil_oh, ok :)03:00
artemmaand probably would have failed the simplest certification03:00
faenil_I asked for a free ticket and got it, I can't miss :D I'm freaking happy :D03:00
artemmaI come from c++ and qt layouting world (has little to do with how qt implements layouting)03:00
artemmagood luck with that!03:00
faenil_thanks :)03:01
artemmawhich Qt days?03:01
faenil_I'm from Italy :)03:01
*** Soder has joined #harmattan03:01
faenil_I'm still a uni student, so I need to learn A LOT, but better start asap! :)03:01
artemmaoh, from Nothern Italy should be a short trip03:02
artemmaand good luck with creating your qt app eventually!03:02
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC03:02
artemmanow that you can do it for free :D03:02
faenil_thanks :) 2 on the way atm...hope to get one out at least :)03:02
faenil_good night ;)03:02
*** faenil_ has quit IRC03:05
*** artemma has quit IRC03:09
*** deimos has quit IRC03:16
*** SpeedEvil has joined #harmattan03:23
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC04:00
*** NIN101 has quit IRC04:04
*** randbit has left #harmattan04:35
*** leinir has quit IRC04:45
*** bindi has joined #harmattan05:13
*** pinheiro_ has joined #harmattan06:12
*** pinheiro has quit IRC06:15
*** berndhs has quit IRC06:21
*** smokex950 has quit IRC06:29
*** crevetor has quit IRC06:46
*** pinheiro_ has quit IRC07:24
*** ajalkane has joined #harmattan07:25
*** ieatlint has quit IRC07:52
*** ieatlint has joined #harmattan07:52
*** trx has quit IRC08:10
*** trx has joined #harmattan08:15
*** antman8969 has joined #harmattan08:22
*** juergbi has quit IRC08:30
*** hardaker has quit IRC08:45
*** wmarone has quit IRC08:53
*** wmarone has joined #harmattan08:54
*** wmarone has quit IRC08:58
*** wmarone has joined #harmattan08:59
*** wmarone_ has joined #harmattan09:16
*** wmarone has quit IRC09:16
*** wmarone_ has quit IRC09:18
*** wmarone_ has joined #harmattan09:19
*** bindi has quit IRC09:20
*** bindi has joined #harmattan09:24
*** antman8969 has quit IRC09:38
*** juergbi has joined #harmattan09:49
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan10:02
*** arnet has joined #harmattan10:07
*** zarlino has quit IRC10:14
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan10:14
*** djszapi has left #harmattan10:14
*** dgilmore has quit IRC10:21
*** rcg has joined #harmattan10:27
*** piggz has joined #harmattan10:43
*** piggz has quit IRC10:54
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan10:55
*** djszapi has left #harmattan10:56
*** piggz has joined #harmattan11:00
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan11:09
*** beford has quit IRC11:10
*** piggz has quit IRC11:15
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan11:15
*** seif has quit IRC11:39
*** seif has joined #harmattan11:39
*** zarlino has quit IRC11:40
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan11:44
*** [XeN] has quit IRC11:53
*** druid23 has quit IRC11:54
*** artemma has joined #harmattan12:03
*** pinheiro has joined #harmattan12:12
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC12:16
*** doomdog has joined #harmattan12:17
doomdogMorning all, quick question: is there a way to flash only rootfs, leaving user data intact (contacts etc.)?12:17
rantomWith current tools for the developer-devices I'd say no12:21
rantomFor what I can tell the OneClickFlasher flashes it all12:21
doomdogYou can flash only kernel, for instance, using the flasher from within the OCF.12:22
rcgi think MohammadAG figured out more details about flashing12:22
rcgiirc there is some way to pass more options to the flasher12:22
MohammadAGold beta1 flasher12:23
*** ajalkane has quit IRC12:23
rcgdoenst work with the new one?12:23
doomdogYes, but I'm not sure if I can avoid erasing contacts etc. in the process.12:23
*** SpeedEvil has joined #harmattan12:23
doomdogWill try flasher -r perhaps...12:26
*** lardman_ has joined #harmattan12:28
*** mardy has joined #harmattan12:28
dm8tbrdoomdog: so the device doesn't boot?12:29
mardyhi all! The packages in, are they only for the SDK, or will uses be able to install them on the device as well?12:31
mardyI'm porting neverball (a C + SDL game), and I need to use this library:
mardycan my game depend on it, or is it out-of-reach for the end-user?12:32
hiemanshumardy: if you want to publish it to the Ovi store it will be out of reach, unless its already installed12:38
mardyhiemanshu: it's not already installed :-(12:38
ieatlintthere's libosso-gsf12:38
mardyhiemanshu: maybe I can compile it statically, then12:38
ieatlintnot sure what the difference is12:38
hiemanshumardy: then either include it as part of your deb package12:38
hiemanshuor compile statically12:38
ieatlinttry linking against -losso-gsf and see if it works12:40
*** sp3001 has joined #harmattan12:40
mardyieatlint: no, that's only a modified version of libgsf12:40
mardybut I see that libosso-dev contains libosso.a, so I can indeed link statically to it: problem solved :-)12:41
*** arnet has quit IRC12:42
*** piggz has joined #harmattan12:43
ieatlintah, cool then12:43
ieatlinti'd welcome a neverball game on the n9/50 :)12:44
*** NIN101 has joined #harmattan12:45
*** dgilmore has joined #harmattan12:46
dm8tbryes with the sensors that could be really cool12:52
mardyieatlint, dm8tbr: if you have a N900 you can already try it :-)12:54
ieatlinti do indeed12:55
mardyunfortunately, it's almost unplayable: it's extremely difficult to control it with the accelerometer12:55
ieatlintis it in extras?12:55
mardyieatlint: extras-testing, IIRC12:55
mardyieatlint: but neverputt works fine12:56
mardyexcept that it consumes CPU even when paused, I need to fix that12:56
dm8tbrmardy: I'll play a round of galaxy on fire 2 in super hard on my harmattan device instead ;)12:57
ieatlintbut why, there's a golfing game that's ever so much more exciting..12:57
dm8tbrfor some reason I'm missing the golf game, dunno12:58
ieatlintnow that's a real shame13:00
mardydm8tbr: you don't miss much, IMHO :-)13:00
ieatlintRealGolf2011 is the shit13:00
ieatlintit's got grass and everything13:00
ieatlintdo you have nfs shift?13:01
dm8tbrdidn't play it much though13:01
ieatlinti wasn't too impressed by any of the games :(13:02
ieatlintgof2 is pretty enough, and it has a few memories of the old tie fighter game, but it left me going "meh"13:02
dm8tbrI've played GOF2 for quite a while13:02
*** crevetor has joined #harmattan13:03
dm8tbrit's not as cool as the memory of 'ye olde games'13:03
ieatlintperhaps i got bitter after it kept crashing at random13:03
dm8tbrbut it was ok to pass some time, especially after kicking up the notch to the harder modes13:04
dm8tbrthat didn't happen too often to me :)13:04
dm8tbrand save early-save-often helped too :D13:04
ieatlintrelease version more stable perhaps13:04
fralswonder how the hell to make a ui for this:!/frals/status/125144449478180864/photo/113:05
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan13:05
*** rm_you has quit IRC13:05
*** rm_you has joined #harmattan13:06
ieatlintare you refering to modifying the standby screen?13:06
ieatlintdunno... it's either qml or mtf13:06
ieatlintnever tried to look13:07
ieatlintactually, i have a question, for people with a release n9... when you play music via the built-in player, does the lock screen show you the current song and have basic next/prev and pause/play buttons?13:07
dm8tbrmh, let me check13:08
fralsieatlint: no it does not ;)13:09
dm8tbrthe lock screen shows controls for me13:09
ieatlintwait, which one is it?13:10
hiemanshuieatlint: the other one :P13:10
ieatlinti'll kill you all13:10
ieatlint is what i'm referring to for reference13:11
dm8tbrah, a white one...13:12
fralsieatlint: source of pic?13:13
fralsieatlint: was thinkin more of the lines of a url or where you found it :D13:14
ieatlintfriend sent it to me13:15
ieatlintdoes the origin matter that much, or is the inference that it's fake?13:15
dm8tbrtightie whities are not on sale, so it was probably at some event with nokia people ;)13:15
rantomWhite N9?13:16
ieatlintprobably just a sea ray13:16
artemmapink one is the best :)13:16
rantomThe "now playing"13:16
* artemma sees lots of N9 VS Sea ray reviews all over the blogosphere. Well, if at least one of them becomes real popular13:17
dm8tbrartemma: 'reviews' of something that hasn't been announced yet? LOL13:17
artemmathat would be a moment for real harmattan evaluation - phones are too close HW wise13:17
artemmaNokia world is coming13:17
artemmaguess what will be announced13:18
ieatlintfrals: anyway, i don't have the device, sadly... have gotten to play with a couple n9s, but was sent this with little explanation a week or so ago13:18
artemmadisclaimer: I am not in the Nokia for months by now, so that;s just my guess13:18
dm8tbrartemma: gues what hasn't been announced yet and so can't be reviewed, can it?13:18
ieatlintand was curious if the release n9s had it, as they're supposedly 34-1 and the n950 at 34-2 doesn't13:18
ieatlintand this is the first white n9 pic, there are a few out there13:19
dm8tbrjust look at some of the nokia videos about designing the N9 ;)13:19
ieatlinteven a rumour it will be released next year13:19
kimjunote that the current n950 is from different branch 1.2011, afaik n9 is 10.2011...13:20
rantomCan you even control the music playback in the N9 lock screen?13:20
rantomBecause I can't find any option to that in the settings13:20
ieatlintdunno, no one gave me a straight answer13:20
kimjubigger is not necessarily better, just another branch13:20
rantomMight be a newer fw13:21
fralsieatlint: rantom: no, you can not13:21
rantomfrals: Ok. So that white N9 pic might be a fake13:21
ieatlintshame, was hoping it was something i'd get when i finally pony up the cash to buy an n9 :(13:21
fralstime for pizza and tbbt, o/13:21
*** crevetor has quit IRC13:22
dm8tbrrantom: 1:31 ;)13:22
rantomdm8tbr: What about that?13:24
rantomdm8tbr: ah, yeah, white backcover13:24
rantomI'd guess then an early prototype13:25
dm8tbrwho knows13:25
rantomI'm more interested about the playback control now though13:26
dm8tbrbottom line: those devices do exist, but you apparently can't buy them :)13:26
rantomLike the N95013:26
ieatlintyou just need to find out who to mug13:26
artemmarantom: I see quite interesting business opportunity in replacing the lock screen ;)13:27
artemmameans lots of research though and may happen to be impossible13:27
ieatlintnokia won't approve it13:27
dm8tbrI remember that even getting the bouncing notification on the lock screen is impossible (as you can't get the necessary credentials)13:28
artemmawell, one thing I'd be really interested in having is not whole screen replacement, but unlocking algorithm13:28
rantomartemma: nah. It'd be nice to have it but I can live without it13:28
artemmadouble tap + drag for unlock is very cool, but it's butt detection sucks13:28
dm8tbrartemma: I hear someone did a swiping lock screen for the n90013:28
artemmaunlocks way too often in the pocket13:29
*** leinir has joined #harmattan13:29
hiemanshuI just disabled double tap unlock13:29
ieatlinthuh, i've never had my n950 unlock in my pocket13:29
artemmahiemanshu: I did the same for a while13:29
artemmathen I learned to put it in the topcket different side13:29
hiemanshuI have the balance drop from a thousand to zero13:30
tommadouble tap unlock can open it easily, but it also opens screen when message or call comes13:30
artemmaand then somehow it stopped unlocking on its own - maybe I changed jeans :)13:30
*** faenil has joined #harmattan13:32
*** zarlino has quit IRC13:37
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan13:37
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan13:41
*** zarlino has quit IRC13:44
*** norayr has joined #harmattan13:49
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan13:51
*** zz_gri is now known as gri14:08
* gri always has the n950 in a case so it won't get any scratches or unlock in the pocket14:21
*** doomdog has quit IRC14:22
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan14:36
*** [XeN] has quit IRC14:38
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan14:45
*** [XeN] has quit IRC14:59
*** norayr is now known as arnet15:16
*** piggz has quit IRC15:40
*** ravirdv has joined #harmattan15:44
*** faenil has quit IRC15:57
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan16:02
*** faenil has joined #harmattan16:05
*** lardman_ has quit IRC16:14
*** ravirdv has quit IRC16:25
*** berndhs has joined #harmattan16:26
*** [XeN] has quit IRC16:30
*** Lilltiger has joined #harmattan16:42
Lilltiger I am trying to mount a NFS share on my Nokia N9, but when mounting as root, i get a permission denied from bindresvport, but i cant find an /etc/hosts.allow file, so where is therights for the deamons set?16:42
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
LilltigerDocScrutinizer youu just get that from #meego, so damn stupid16:45
Lilltigerstill no way to disable that crap?16:45
DocScrutinizersorry what?16:46
SpeedEvilI note javispedros page listing capailities does not list capabilities available from the ovi store.16:46
SpeedEvilIs there a list?16:46
LilltigerAegis that is,.16:46
Lilltigerall it does is preventing me from doing things I want to be able to do16:46
DocScrutinizerand don't forget there's a thanks button to hit!16:47
LilltigerI had read that erlier but see now that there is alot of new posts :)16:48
*** Ans5i has joined #harmattan16:48
LilltigerDocScrutinizer: hmm :'( I cant find the thanks button *tries alt+f4* :p16:49
SpeedEvilyou need to login16:49
DocScrutinizerLilltiger: a lot of "The Following 26 Users Say Thank You For This Useful Post: <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous> <anonymous>" wouldn't help much eh? Register! Log in!16:51
LilltigerWell that anonymous dude is pretty famous on 4chan!16:52
DocScrutinizerregistering is (way too) painless anyway16:54
DocScrutinizerunless you dare to use another browser than FF or NSIE16:54
DocScrutinizers/ N/ M/16:54
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: unless you dare to use another browser than FF or MSIE16:54
*** arnet has quit IRC16:54
Lilltigerwork on Chrome16:55
DocScrutinizerwith standard promiscuous settings for cookies yes16:55
DocScrutinizermaybe meanwhile they fixed some huger flaws16:55
LilltigerI would never say no to a free cookie!16:56
DocScrutinizeryour mother didn't educate you well ;-P16:56
LilltigerWell I would never get into a van, unless there where cookies and milk in it!16:57
DocScrutinizerfact is and seems also did a stupid thing of never deleting old session cookies, so you couldn't log in again afzer session expired16:58
*** Velmont has joined #harmattan17:01
DocScrutinizerunless your browser treated all cookies as delete-at-session-end which is the default in FF afaik17:01
Lilltigerthe open kernel seems great, but i guess ill wait a little while for it to get a bit more stability17:02
DocScrutinizer(a bit of handwaving in all the above - but it looked like that when I made it work in Konqueror)17:03
*** oprwww has joined #harmattan17:03
LilltigerI miss Konqi17:03
DocScrutinizerLilltiger: sure, the "open kernel" is just a PoC for now17:03
Lilltigerbeen in Wincrap way to long.. stupid games17:03
oprwwwhello, guys! does somebody know where's the alarmclock settings stored on N9? and if it's possible to make alarm clock play alarm more than 3 times?17:04
Lilltigermmm, just hope they will get it to work :D17:04
DocScrutinizerwe will, you bet17:05
DocScrutinizerI need it, javispedro needs it to17:05
LilltigerI bouhgt the phone thinking it was a fully open linux so got quite dissapointe17:06
DocScrutinizeryeah, pretty much a bait&switch of Nokia17:06
Lilltigermmm, it's a pretty neat phone17:06
Lilltigerand the battery time is awsome17:07
DocScrutinizerthe HW is quite OK'ish (if you like kbd free chocolate bar phones)17:07
DocScrutinizerthe GUI, well not my cup of tea, but YMMV17:08
DocScrutinizerthe paegis desaster though.... :-(((17:08
Lilltigerwell true, could have been alot better HW, I kinda like the gui, with the app that allowed me to set the swipe actions so i can close apps by swiping down17:08
Lilltigerbut then i mostly use it to stream video17:09
Lilltigeremm not stream, watch17:09
DocScrutinizerstream video? hmm, strange - flash somehow fails to work here17:09
Lilltigerboring work, so i watch videos on the phone while working17:09
Lilltigerwell there is an awsome stream app! the TED talks app!17:10
VelmontI knew it was retarted, but I put my hopes in someone breaking it and being able to run full open goodiness on it in a few years :D17:10
DocScrutinizera few months :-D17:10
faenila few days maybe :P17:10
Lilltigertomorrow i will have had mine for 1 week, it's getting old!17:11
DocScrutinizerfaenil: too optimistic, introducing open mode will break quite a number of things, and we have to work around these, ans also find a sane safe way to switch back to normal mode17:11
faenilyeah :)17:12
VelmontI had my G1 up until now, -- and I can work with long timespans :-) However, I love when people fix things quick. But I'm used to FOSS-development, some things just take time :-)17:13
DocScrutinizerjavispedro, me, a few others are talking in a less public channel and not every latest finding gets published on FMC17:13
LilltigerVelmont: like a good DE, still no realy good ones to linux :p17:13
faenilthat's why javispedro has been silent lately :P17:14
DocScrutinizerjavispedro is one of the few guys that still have a real life and nevertheless contribute to maemo/meego a lot17:15
Lilltigermaybe he just pretends to have a real life?17:16
DocScrutinizeras long as he doesn't take a 6 months timeout like summer one year ago, I'm just happy with his performance17:16
DocScrutinizerfor now we'd need a savvy kernel maintainer to care about keeping a fua-pk up to date17:19
DocScrutinizerand up to date here *really* means no more than maybe a week delay from new official HARM kernel to updated version of fua-pk17:21
LilltigerI lack the time and knowledge :/17:21
faenilsame here..17:22
DocScrutinizermost of us do17:22
faenilthat's the problem :17:22
LilltigerI dont even find the time to work on my project that aims for me to be able to quit my boring job, and that tears me apart17:22
DocScrutinizerthe real problem is Nokia managed to even alienate original fremantle PK maintainer Titan17:23
DocScrutinizerlike a large number of other gifted hackers likewise17:23
LilltigerElop have just been soooo good for Nokia...17:24
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: is there a patchset?17:24
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: for the rev0.1 fua-pk the patchset is just <void>, it's simply a build of original kernel without Nokia signature17:25
DocScrutinizerfirst patch however is the aegis neutering17:25
*** zarlino has quit IRC17:26
DocScrutinizerthen import and adapt the fremantle kernel-power patchset17:26
DocScrutinizerwould be a good dtart17:26
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: you're on board of H-E-N9 effort, which basically hosts fua-pk atm17:27
DocScrutinizerso check your chanlogs over there ;-)17:27
*** crevetor has joined #harmattan17:30
*** druid23 has quit IRC17:34
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan17:35
*** ragur_ has joined #harmattan17:41
*** hardaker has joined #harmattan17:43
*** ragur has quit IRC17:44
*** hardaker has quit IRC17:47
*** lardman_ has joined #harmattan17:47
*** hardaker has joined #harmattan17:48
*** Natunen has joined #harmattan17:53
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC17:53
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan17:53
*** ragur_ has quit IRC17:55
*** [XeN] has quit IRC17:56
*** BrettQ has quit IRC17:58
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC17:59
*** Arkenoi has joined #harmattan17:59
*** npm_ is now known as npm17:59
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan18:00
*** zarlino has quit IRC18:07
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan18:11
mgedminisn't the N9 LED supposed to turn on while it's charging?18:12
mgedmindoes it even have a LED message light?18:12
dm8tbrit's got an oled screen, so plenty of LEDs ;)18:13
tommaN950 led flashes when it is charging18:18
faenilit doesn't flash, it fades in and out :)18:22
tommaslow motion flashing =)18:22
faenil:D :D18:23
*** piggz has joined #harmattan18:24
griI wonder when I will see the first n9 in public18:24
piggzhelp fellow harmattan not seeing andy console.log message from my qml app...they work fone on the desktop, but nothing when run on the phone, either from the terminal or via remote debugging18:25
*** gri is now known as zz_gri18:32
*** zutesmog has left #harmattan18:32
faenilu're writing from the phone right? :D18:33
*** zarlino has quit IRC18:56
fralshmm, which file could i grep to check if a file is aegis protected?19:07
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC19:07
SpeedEvilsomething restok19:07
SpeedEvilfind / -maxdepth 4 -name "*restok*"19:08
fralsfound it i guess19:08
SpeedEvilOk - not.19:08
DocScrutinizerfrals: NB the pthnames in there are missing the initial /19:10
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# id19:10
DocScrutinizeruid=0(root) gid=0(root)id: can't get groups19:10
DocScrutinizeranybody else seeing this on an aegis-neutered system?19:11
DocScrutinizer(nuttin in syslog btw)19:13
Ans5imaybe you can try to give CAP:: .. but no i haven't seen it19:14
Velmontzz_gri: I've been flasing my N9 quite a lot these days.19:21
fralsDocScrutinizer: cheers19:24
DocScrutinizermgedmin: dm8tbr: sure N9 has a indicator LED, according to schematics and mce.ini19:27
mgedminso why is it off all the time?19:28
VelmontIt's not.19:28
VelmontIt's on when charging.19:28
mgedminare you saying my N9 is broken?19:28
DocScrutinizermgedmin: because of paegis forbidding proper usage ;-P19:28
Velmontmgedmin: Slowly pulsating. -- If you don't see it, yes, it must be broken :-)19:28
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan19:28
*** djszapi has left #harmattan19:29
mgedminI could try rebooting it19:29
Velmontmgedmin: Or maybe it's just in your blindspot :]19:29
dm8tbrit could be right next to the connector or somewhere similarly hidden19:29
DocScrutinizeror they forgot to build a transparent window to the case for it XP19:29
mgedminI've never even *seen* my blind spot19:29
dm8tbrthat's how it is on my E719:29
mgedminI don't believe I have one :)19:29
VelmontIt's down to the left at the bottom. -- The small front-camera is to the right, the indicator is to the left. You can't see it when it's off, because it's hidden behind the black finish.19:30
VelmontActually, I can see it when I take my N9 under good light.19:31
VelmontBut it's easy to see when it's pulsating, at least :-)19:31
* mgedmin shrugs19:31
mgedmindoesn't pulsate here...19:31
mgedminI can't explain why19:31
mgedminif I unlock it, I can verify that it is charging fine19:32
DocScrutinizeronly does that when hooked up to a charger I guess19:32
DocScrutinizeror for s short period during bootup19:32
mgedmindidn't even see that when I rebooted it just now19:32
mgedminso maybe it is broken19:32
mgedminoh well everything else works19:32
mgedminat least19:33
piggzfaenil: no, just bad typing clearly!!19:33
faenilpiggz : OK :D19:33
DocScrutinizermgedmin: you might try what's the result of #> echo 100 >`find /sys -name brightness; or the more elaborated equivalent with full pathname19:34
DocScrutinizermight still be allowed under develsh19:34
DocScrutinizercan't verify here on my "rooted" system19:35
*** oprwww has quit IRC19:40
DocScrutinizermgedmin: sorry never mind. Seems this doesn't work even on a de-aegified N95019:40
*** antman8969 has joined #harmattan19:40
DocScrutinizermgedmin: it works for the kbd bl LEDs, but not for the indicator LED of N95019:43
DocScrutinizerdunno why19:43
*** Venemo_N900 has joined #harmattan19:44
Venemo_N900good afternoon everyone19:44
DocScrutinizerLP552* might have a program loaded that defeats any direct brightness change for the indicator LED19:44
DocScrutinizerhi Venemo_N90019:44
faenilhi Venemo_N900 :)19:44
Venemo_N900hey faenil & DocScrutinizer :)19:45
DocScrutinizerfor those willing to experiment: open kbd slide, lock screen, execute #> for i in `seq 0 8`; do echo 100 > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032/leds/lp5523:channel${i }/brightness; done19:46
* Venemo_N900 is bored19:46
Venemo_N900still 1 hour until I arrive19:46
faenilwhere :)19:46
faeniloh :S19:47
DocScrutinizers/ i/i/19:47
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: for those willing to experiment: open kbd slide, lock screen, execute #> fori in `seq 0 8`; do echo 100 > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032/leds/lp5523:channel${i }/brightness; done19:47
DocScrutinizers/i }/i}/19:47
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: for those willing to experiment: open kbd slide, lock screen, execute #> for i in `seq 0 8`; do echo 100 > /sys/devices/platform/i2c_omap.2/i2c-2/2-0032/leds/lp5523:channel${i}/brightness; done19:47
RST38hDoc: So, what is the latest status on aegis-free maemo6?19:47
Venemo_N900faenil, I'm traveling from Budapest to Kaposvár by train. there I'll need to change to a bus19:48
RST38hDoc: I checked out javispedro's thread from the point where kernel sources became available, but it was too long to make a conclusion19:48
faenilVenemo_N900: I see...19:48
Venemo_N900RST38h, you can flash an aegisfree kernel19:48
DocScrutinizereagis-neutered kernel bots, HARM system starts, accli says "open mode", several systems (like certs, account manager, etc) blow chunks - expected outcome19:48
RST38hok. no account manager => cannot log into any accounts like gmail/fb/etc ?19:49
DocScrutinizeryet to get proper evaluation19:50
DocScrutinizerthe impact is complex and sometimes subtle19:50
Venemo_N900RST38h, I think there is a patch that makes the system believe that aegis is enabled, while it is disabled.19:50
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: that doesn't help much in a number of cases, as aegisfs can't work as expected when TPM got locked by NOLO booting to an "open" kernel19:51
DocScrutinizermount|grep aegisfs19:51
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, omg :(19:51
*** niqt has joined #harmattan19:52
DocScrutinizerto get an idea where the gremlins sit19:52
Venemo_N900well, I can not, as I don't have an N9(50) atm19:54
*** strank has joined #harmattan19:54
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, but I'll just believe you :)19:54
strankdoes anyone know how to change the hostname on an N9? Default is RM696, editing /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts has no effect, even after reboot19:56
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: seems like most of those aegisfs are "ro" without TPM, but not really encrypted19:57
Venemo_N900strank, does 'hostname yournewfancyhostname' have an effect?19:57
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, mhm19:57
strankyes: operation not permitted :-(19:57
strank(and it would not be permanent)19:57
DocScrutinizeron fremantle changing the bluetooth device name did the trick19:57
strankdid that already, no effect19:58
DocScrutinizeryou used develsh?19:58
strankcurrently "devel-su -" but I assume that's the same environment19:58
Venemo_N900not the same19:59
DocScrutinizernot sure about it19:59
strankok, i'll check19:59
strankno change with devel-sh AFAICT20:00
*** niqt has quit IRC20:08
*** vladest has joined #harmattan20:13
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan20:29
*** Jon_Severinsson has joined #harmattan20:32
*** mikkov has quit IRC20:33
*** vladest has quit IRC20:35
*** mikkov has joined #harmattan20:36
*** Jon_Severinsson is now known as Jonno20:36
*** QtK has joined #harmattan20:42
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan20:44
QtKhi I have v 1.2011.34-2_PR_RM680 running on my N950, but am unable to download any app from Nokia Store. It says Service unavailable. Any idea on how to fix this issue.20:48
*** [XeN] has quit IRC20:53
*** ajalkane has joined #harmattan20:53
* artemma was failing to understand how come log file is not being created. 10 min later I figured that right side of terminal window was moved beyond the screen exactly so that last column of ls output was beyond the screen :) 20:57
*** zarlino has quit IRC20:58
DocScrutinizerQtK: maybe weekend repo downtime?20:59
QtKno I am having this issue from this tuesday21:00
QtKevery time I get the same error21:00
QtKCan see the content, but cannot login.21:01
DocScrutinizerhmm, what exactly is throwing this error?21:01
DocScrutinizerI mean, is this browser which is called via "OVI" app icon?21:02
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan21:03
QtKI get this msg "Service currently unavailable" when I try to signin  to my Nokia Account to download app21:03
DocScrutinizeraaah nokia account "service not available"21:04
*** [XeN] has quit IRC21:04
DocScrutinizera very "popular" one21:04
DocScrutinizernobody really found the root cause21:05
QtKyes, but didnt get a solution21:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you got it sorted meanwhile?21:05
*** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan21:06
artemmain C++ I fail to connect QML signal to C++ slot and can't get the reason. Is there some way to get more detailed info on why connect failed?21:06
QtKreading forum posts and IRC logs I came to know that this issue was faced in previous firmware versions too. Thought it might have been fixed in the new one.21:07
faenilwell if you're trying to connect to a qt slot21:08
faenilit should work by default21:08
faenilas long as you have exposed the current context21:09
*** antman8969 has quit IRC21:09
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: 90%21:14
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I flashed beta2, and it started working - though I can't link my twitter account.21:14
*** vladest has joined #harmattan21:15
berndhsartemma: usually its typos in names or parameter types, there is no compile time checking for that21:15
artemmaberndhs: I suspect that qml signal isn't created, because I want to run qml without gui..21:15
artemmamaybe I should google about how you print all the available signals of the object21:16
berndhssure it could be that the qml exporting the signal isn't loaded at the time the connect is called in C++21:17
artemmaI load qml like this:21:17
artemmaQDeclarativeComponent component(&engine, CrossPlatformUtils::localAdjustPath("qml/flickrwallpapers/FlickrSourcModel.qml"));21:17
artemma    QObject* flickrModel = component.create();21:17
artemmaAnd I had an idea that by the moment of component.create() return the component is actually created21:18
berndhsis there a status on the component that tells you if it is loaded completely ?21:18
QtKSpeedEvil: I too am using beta2 version only. And am facing the issue with Twitter account login too. Only Facebook login works.21:18
*** hardaker has quit IRC21:18
artemmawell, there is a signal Component.onCompleted21:18
SpeedEvilI've not tried twitter - just setup ovi account21:19
artemmait's not a signal of an object itself21:19
artemmahmm, maybe I could monitor it still21:19
berndhsyes you could check if that point has been reached by the time connect(...) is called21:19
artemmawow, indeed create() seems to be asynchronous, documentation just doesn't mention it explicitly21:21
QtKprobably I should try flashing it again with beta221:25
Venemo_N900artemma, there are plenty of examples about component.oncompleted on google21:28
artemmaVenemo_N900: that's on qml side21:28
artemmaI am in c++ for now21:28
Venemo_N900artemma, oh.21:28
Venemo_N900artemma, what's the problem you are trying to solve?21:28
artemmaI want to create a qml component and once it is created, I want to connect its signal to c++ slot21:29
artemmado you need to connect exactly to qobject's slot?21:30
Venemo_N900you can connect those in qml.21:30
artemmaI am not excited about creating an extra object for just a single statement slot21:30
artemmaVenemo_N900: yes I can, but it makes more sence in c++ this time. Well, maybe, still thinking21:31
Venemo_N900artemma, by creating a qml component, do you mean that you are creating a QDeclarativeItem subclass?21:31
artemmaI create QDeclarativeComponent21:32
artemmathen call its create()21:32
artemmawell, I think I'll go for qml side workaround21:32
Venemo_N900so you actually instantiate a qml item from c++?21:32
artemmathat way I know21:32
artemmaVenemo_N900: yes21:32
Venemo_N900artemma, aaah.21:32
artemmathing is 95% of my app logic is in QML21:33
artemmabut one of use cases involves nonGui activation21:33
Venemo_N900and why don't you do it the other way around?21:33
artemmaand I want to reuse logic that's already in qml21:33
artemmathat is kind'of a command line utility call21:33
Venemo_N900I prefer instantiating my C++ classes in QML, not my QML items in C++21:34
artemmathat instantiates something on QML side, waits until it's done and continues21:34
artemmame too21:34
artemmathis case is a little different though21:34
artemmawhatever, I think I am going for qml workaround21:34
artemmait's easy to make qml object connect to c++ when qml is ready21:35
*** QtK has quit IRC21:35
Venemo_N900don't write app logics in qml :P21:35
artemmaof course I will write app logic in qml21:35
artemma"qml only for UI" only means "we are not sure it's good enough for logic"21:36
Venemo_N900I only tend to write gui logic in qml. app logic I leave in c++21:36
artemmadepends on the amount of gui in your app21:36
artemmaif I was doing a file copy utility I'd probably skipped qml21:36
artemmamine is a kind of specific flickr viewer21:37
Venemo_N900eh. the f*cking bus is late and I'm freezing.21:37
artemmathat has to know how to perform some related actions from command line21:37
artemmaVenemo_N900: don't time on the cold keyboard then ;)21:37
Venemo_N900the keyboard isn't cold21:38
artemmahmm, how to I inject C++ object into qml if I only have QDeclarativeEngine?21:38
Venemo_N900and IRCing makes me not focus on the cold and on waiting. waiting is boring.21:38
artemmacan't see how to get to its context21:38
Venemo_N900artemma, you need to register your c++ class with qmlRegisterType21:39
Venemo_N900or one of its variants21:39
Venemo_N900then you can use it in C++21:39
artemmaI think I was using just setContextProperty21:39
artemmawithout any registration21:39
Venemo_N900if you want to set a context variable, I can't tell you that off the top of my head21:40
artemmaI don't need to register type, just inject one object21:40
artemmaok, never mind, I'll browse the docs21:40
Venemo_N900yeah, I get it.21:40
Venemo_N900finally! bus is here21:40
Venemo_N900I want to move to a tropical island. I hate this cold weather.21:42
lardman_I really do hate qml anchors21:43
*** lardman_ is now known as lardman|home21:43
lardman|homeanyone know of a way to get the length in pixels of a text object's contents?21:44
Venemo_N900why? anchors are good.21:44
lardman|homeyeah the idea is good, but I can't seem to get things to work very well21:44
Venemo_N900they're lots better than the way it's done in XAML21:44
lardman|homedespite anchoring things together, they are all stuck on top of one another21:45
lardman|homethis is a listview delegate so perhaps it dislikes certain things, like parents21:45
* lardman|home will keep hacking away at it after supper21:45
* lardman|home suspends laptop, bbl21:46
*** Arkenoi has joined #harmattan21:48
*** brenner__ has quit IRC21:48
*** Scifig has joined #harmattan21:49
ajalkanelistview delegate's parent is the listview. So of course they'll stack on top of each other :-)21:50
*** faenil has quit IRC21:50
*** lardman|home has quit IRC21:50
ScifigI downloaded telepathy-mission-control-5-dbg_5.7.11-0maemo9+0m6_armel.deb from The binary throws an error "line 1: syntax error: unexpected word (expecting ")")" on N950.21:52
ScifigAnyway to workaround this ^^?21:53
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan22:01
* Venemo_N900 is finally home! ttyl guys22:02
*** Venemo_N900 has quit IRC22:02
*** zarlino has quit IRC22:03
*** seif has quit IRC22:31
*** seif has joined #harmattan22:33
*** InformatiQ has joined #harmattan22:33
*** lardman|home has joined #harmattan22:33
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan22:33
lardman|homeajalkane: I just read the logs and yeah I realised that, though I'm actually using an Item to wrap the delegate and that's the parent I was thinking of22:35
*** seif has quit IRC22:37
*** seif has joined #harmattan22:37
ajalkanelardman|home: remember to specify height for the Item then22:38
ajalkaneotherwise it's probably zero height so that would explain the stacking also22:38
lardman|homeyeah I thought I'd set the heights, but perhaps I missed one out22:40
lardman|homehow does one deal with e.g. Labels or Text items, where you only want the object to be as tall as the text it contains?22:40
lardman|homecan I find out how tall/long some text will be in pixels?22:40
ajalkaneI'm no expert, but I think the Label/Text's width/height is as what's required by the text22:41
lardman|homein which case my delegate ought to not need me to set any other heights22:42
lardman|homeI'll do some more experimentation22:42
lardman|homethanks :)22:42
ajalkanewell, delegate's are another kind of beast so that's not the whole story... but experimentation and impending frustration leads to eventual enlightenment :p22:43
ajalkaneor confusion, but eventually working code... anyway.22:43
lardman|homeI had some working code, and I've no clue what it was about that code that made it work22:44
ajalkanebeen there. Looked at the code later, figured out it's awful. But not dared to touch it anymore.22:45
lardman|homeyeah, am tempted to go back to that original code, but I do hate a mystery... ;)22:47
*** InformatiQ has quit IRC22:47
lardman|homeand lots of messages in the terminal warning me about various bad things that I'm apparently doing even though the code is working22:47
ajalkaneI can't stand warnings.22:48
ajalkaneThey make me do all kind of weird shit just to get them away22:48
ajalkaneIt's kinda stupid, but I can't help it.22:48
lardman|homesame here, I'd like it to all be clean22:48
*** Venemo_webchat has joined #harmattan22:49
lardman|homebut dirty >> broken in the grand scheme of things22:49
lardman|homeok, so more questions - states, are states triggered at app startup? and if one performs an AnchorChange {} does that reset all anchors other than the ones you set?22:50
ajalkaneyeah. I do dirty things, because of time restraints etc., but for some reason warnings are something I can't stand. Even though they are often much less benign really than for example abusing APIs22:50
lardman|homeI imagine that perhaps that is my problem, I need to reset all the anchors in the states rather than assuming that some will be left unaltered22:51
* ajalkane has fallen out of his league once states have been mentioned.22:51
ajalkaneJust now I used QSettings("MyApplicationName", "configfile"), even though that's clearly wrong. Anyone know what's the correct way to have Settings in .config/MyAppName/configfile.ini ?22:53
*** antman8969 has joined #harmattan22:53
ajalkane(assuming I want to use QSettings for convenience)22:54
lardman|homeI think you can specify the complete path to an ini file as one of the method call options22:54
ajalkanelardman|home: yes I can, but I hate hard-coded paths. If I'm going to hard-code it's going to be platform specific, and in that case abusing API is not much worse. A little but not much.22:55
lardman|homein which case I'm not sure, sorry22:55
ajalkaneBut I think you're right anyway, it'd be cleaner.22:56
ajalkaneWell, there's an IMPROVE in the code, I don't want to lose time in it for now :(22:56
* lardman|home gets back on with his IMPROVE which is to get the UI usable22:57
lardman|homebloody UIs... who needs those hey?22:57
ajalkaneUIs are kinda annoying. Girlfriends/wifes are quite useful in figuring out how usable the UIs are though. Just got lots of little work todo just by showing to wifey the app. Okay I hated the suggestions, but she had good point :(22:58
ajalkaneHated the suggestions mainly because it meant more work just as when I thought I'm about to be done22:59
lardman|homeI fear our 7 week old is taking most of my wife's time atm, though once I work out what's wrong with these anchors I will see if I can rock the baby and get her to take a look-see22:59
lardman|homeand most of mine too, I should add23:00
ajalkaneThem wives, always attenting to that baby UI :(23:00
ajalkaneMine's now 11 months, so I had a chance to give the wife a peek23:01
lardman|homewell it does have some advantages, there are certain functions I can't fulfill!23:01
ajalkaneHmm? You can't suck tit?23:01
ajalkaneOh, you were talking about the baby's needs.23:02
*** artemma has quit IRC23:03
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan23:04
ajalkaneN950 is a pleasure now to use as developmen device as I finally got the WiFi connection working, so that I don't have to plug-in to USB to have ssh connection to N950 working or to deploy app to it23:07
ajalkaneWhat a fight with the damn ADSL modem23:07
*** artemma has joined #harmattan23:09
artemmaanybody from Tampere here?23:09
bindino.. but curious, why?23:10
artemmaI am thinking if I want to go out for a beer or not :)23:10
* lardman|home takes a swig of wine and votes yes23:11
artemmathing is I do want to complete an app this weekend so don't want to go for a real party23:11
* ajalkane sips beer, and readies the wine glass, and also votes yes23:11
artemmabut just a beer wouldn't hurt, right?23:11
lardman|homethough I've never been to Finland, so can't help with pub choice23:11
artemmaI live in the very downtown, so bars are all around me23:11
lardman|homewell, hardly a decision at all then surely? ;)23:12
artemmaok, maybe after I finish refactoring of the lately typed code23:12
* lardman|home wonders about going to the pub tomorrow morning at 8.30 to watch the rugby, but thinks that watching from bed might be better23:12
*** Venemo_webchat has quit IRC23:12
ajalkaneProbably depends if you want to have a beer or two while watching. I think most wives would object to taking beer at 8.30 morning.23:14
artemmathey may object more if taking beer at 8:30 happens in the bed..23:20
ajalkaneyeah better be out of the line-of-vision of the wife when indulging on such activities23:21
ajalkane* line-of-sight23:21
lardman|homewell I imagine we will have both been up for a couple of hours so not so bad perhaps23:23
lardman|homeperhaps if I brought her a glass of wine at the same time....23:23
fralsanyone got the url to javispedro icongenerator thingy?23:24
ajalkaneClever. Now you just have to figure out what you're "celebrating". It can't be the rugby match. Something like, "we met this day, 6 years and 78 days ago. I think it calls for celebration"23:25
artemmathere is no InfoBanner element in Harmattan QML components, is there?23:25
ajalkaneartemma: in extras23:25
artemmaSo I need to dive into c++ if I want to show a banner ?23:25
ajalkaneAn InfoBanner that shows in application is there, but system wide no23:25
artemmaoh, I didn't realize work on Harmattan23:26
ajalkaneYeah they work23:26
artemmaI would probably prefer system-wide one and even tried calling one from c++, but it's too hard when you get a non-GUI app23:26
artemmaand for GUI use case, in-app may be good enough and easy23:26
artemmathough.. hmm, actually system wide one would make some more sense even for GUI23:27
artemmathat was something like MBanner if i remember correctly23:27
ajalkaneSomething like that... if you're not afraid of diving into MTF that could make sense. Lots of included apps use it so it should not be too hard23:28
artemmayeah, a bit of MTF is ok23:28
lardman|homeajalkane: lol, I like it23:28
artemmaI dropped it earlier because it was too hard in non gui case (it wanted some reference to scene or something like that)23:29
artemmano, MBanner is in process, MNotification is global!23:29
ajalkaneThat's weird as lots of include background apps use it. So it should be doable without any scenes23:29
artemmabut.. I think MNotification is a very small one, isn't it23:29
artemmaajalkane: it is definitely possible, just needed too much API juggling for me23:30
ajalkaneI think the one appearing in the status bar23:30
artemmayeah, I want something more like real banner23:30
artemmalike "battery charged" one23:30
ajalkaneI'm not aware of any larger system wide one23:30
ajalkanedunno how that's done23:30
artemmaok, so it's either big in app or small global23:31
artemmasmall global... hmm.. then I'll probably go for just QML banner for now23:31
ajalkaneartemma: check the BoostedWG app, I think it has an example for what you want23:32
artemmayep, Boosted WG is what I was thinking about23:32
ajalkaneThere's "System Information Banner" that should be that23:32
artemmaI think I had a look at it and that was also in process banner23:33
artemmaand BTW that example is poorly compatibale with what wizard creates for qml apps23:33
ajalkaneOh. Misleading name then. Too bad. It just makes no sense, as there's "Information Banner" (which I'd think is app banner) and "System Information Banner"23:34
ajalkaneI hate every example I've seen of MTF apps so I've been wary of using any of it23:34
artemmawell, maybe I missed example in some other part of the project23:34
ajalkane* hated23:34
artemmaindeed, meego source code.. I find most of that hard to read and repeat too\23:35
*** Apooo|N9 has joined #harmattan23:35
ajalkaneAll the middleware I've looked has been OK. But the MTF stuff... As it's deprecated I don't even want to put effort into understanding it23:36
*** Apooo|N9 has quit IRC23:36
lardman|homehmm, I see one of my problems - 3 text boxes one above the other, they can't cross reference each other's location, each one should only specify its location relative to the next one23:36
ieatlintyou're working on the n9/50 and are concerned about things being deprecated?23:36
ajalkaneieatlint: I know, crazy. But I'm anal like that.23:37
ieatlintunless you're trying to keep everything portable to symbian, i think you can give up :P23:37
artemmai checked the WG code. Indeed system banner is just a different banner style23:37
ajalkaneIt's mostly about that I expect I can use QML knowledge in future in somewhere (maybe), but MTF is definitely a dead-end.23:37
ieatlint(and in many cases, the symbian version will use old symbian code, so you'll end up with #ifdef in your code all over anyway)23:38
* artemma dreams about #ifdef in QML code. Sometimes differences in "cross-platform" QML components drive me crazy23:39
ieatlintyou could do some crazy shit to get ifdef in qml23:39
ajalkaneartemma: indeed, starting from the import statemets that are different.23:39
*** ZogG has joined #harmattan23:40
ieatlintaside from controlling the context from a c++ backend to push new pages, you can pass the platform as a string to the qml context and then have if/else statements work with a Loader23:40
artemmaieatlint: I'd be happy enough if it's for imports only23:40
ZogGis there an option to share internet from laptop to n9 under linux?23:41
artemmaieatlint: workarounds do exist. I just hate copy-pasting lots of code just because property for icon is called differently23:41
ieatlinthehe, yeah23:41
*** lgombos has joined #harmattan23:41
ieatlintit's approached a level where it's almost compatible, but just not compatible enough, and very angry making in the process23:41
artemmaif there was at least a possibility to tell that it's ok if a particular property is not found. So that it could create the rest of the object23:42
*** javispedro has joined #harmattan23:45
*** kimju has quit IRC23:47
*** kimju has joined #harmattan23:47

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!