IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2011-07-25

seifguys does any1 know where i can get mp-harmattan-rm680-pr00:00
VenemoI'll just wait until it works00:00
seiflbt, does the CE edition also work on n95000:00
lbtVenemo: or that00:00
lbtseif: they're working on it00:00
djszapi|windowsVenemo: it works00:00
Venemoyeah, "most of the time"00:00
lbtdjszapi|windows: he's a "late adopter" ....00:00
djszapi|windowsmost of the cases, there are people with 40-50 packages00:00
djszapi|windowsthere are some corner cases, like the monolythic kdelibs00:00
seifwhat is missing for it to work on n95000:01
djszapi|windowslbt: btw, can you give us a community account ?00:01
VenemoI'm an early adopter for stuff that I can handle, and a late adopter for stuff that I'm incompetent about but see others complaining.00:01
djszapi|windowsWe discussed it during the week we would like to have some extra-dev repository00:01
lbtdjszapi|windows: of course... you don't have one ?00:01
Venemoseif, you'll need to ask Stskeeps about that one00:01
djszapi|windowswhere we can share the stuff until the apps and apps-testing is ready00:01
djszapi|windowslbt: community account, not my account00:01
Venemodjszapi|windows, I wasn't around at the time of that discussion... could you tell me the results?00:01
seifStskeeps, around00:01
lbtoh ... you mean Surrounds:Testing00:01
djszapi|windowsVenemo: it was a long discussion...00:02
djszapi|windowslbt: nope00:02
lbtthere's no such thing as a community account00:02
Venemodjszapi|windows, in short, will we have some repo to which all of us can upload their stuff?00:02
lbtVenemo: yes00:02
djszapi|windowslbt: surrounds is a theroy00:02
djszapi|windows* theory00:02
Venemowhen is it expected to work?00:02
lbtVenemo: Real Soon Now00:03
djszapi|windowsit does not work in the practice (short term)00:03
Venemolbt, ok, thank you :)00:03
lbtdjszapi|windows: no.. it's not00:03
VenemoI'll look into it as soon as I get the time then :)00:03
djszapi|windowsin the short term00:03
djszapi|windowsI love the Surrounds idea, but after a long discussion here, it does not really work00:03
djszapi|windowslbt: but we do need something for the short term00:03
djszapi|windowsso we need a temporary community account until the surround system works00:03
djszapi|windowslbt: there are quite a few packages out there, we would like to share these things00:04
djszapi|windowsok give us access00:04
lbtsure... I'll grant everyone full read/write/delete access on demand ... how will that go do you think?00:05
djszapi|windowswe do not need bureacracy for short term, really.00:05
djszapi|windowswe do need some interim solution00:05
lbtElleo has one00:05
macmaNElleo: is it building yet? (imagine donkey)00:05
MeeGoBotBug 21778 enh, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEW, Place cdbs package from home:elleo into Surrounds:Testing for Harmattan00:05
Elleodjszapi|windows: you could hack something temporary together that just wgets the contents of repositories from interested parties and merges their Packages files00:06
lbtI've also asked for a proposal on what criteria we use to manage such a repo00:06
djszapi|windowsElleo: it is an unneccesary overhead to a community repository, right ?00:06
Elleolbt: that's not really a solution, that's just me asking for a package to be moved into Surrounds when it exists00:06
lbttotal anarchy is not likely to be accepted00:06
lbtElleo: it exists today00:06
Elleolbt: for Harmattan stuff too?00:07
djszapi|windowslbt: there are few people here making nice job...I would not guess we are making anarchy...00:07
ElleoI thought it only really worked for the standard Meego stuff currently?00:07
Elleoand my only really suggestion process wise was to try and implement some sort of package sponsorship/mentoring program00:07
lbtdjszapi|windows: so, cut'n'paste the rules into a wiki page. Call it a proposal and we'll review it00:07
djszapi|windowslbt: I am really sad seeing people making nice job and duplicate each other's work.00:08
Elleoso new people with packages can get them accepted based on recommendation from experienced people (and then eventually be moved into the category of 'experienced' people)00:08
djszapi|windowslbt: ok, I am out of this discussion. bureacracy kills the short term cooperation.00:08
lbtdjszapi|windows: yes... but no-one cared about Harmattan until a few weeks ago00:08
lbtdjszapi|windows: bye00:08
lbtElleo: yes... that's a great proposal00:09
Elleolbt: I'm happy to offer assistance wherever I might be useful, but my knowledge of OBS is extremely limited currently00:09
Elleoand I'm not exactly overflowing with free time either ;)00:09
lbtthe main issue wrt OBS knowledge is knowing what the implementation capability is00:09
lbtand what potential you have00:09
lbteg that it gives PPAs for free00:10
lbtthat you can build against multiple projects00:10
seifElleo, can you make sure your python-telepathy also depends on   mp-harmattan-rm680-pr00:10
lbtanyhow... up at 5am and need to pack00:11
Venemogood evening everyone :)00:11
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lbtElleo: I will be afk a fair bit mon/tue but back wed.00:11
djszapi|windowslbt: your proposal is there for half a year00:11
djszapi|windowsand still not even close to any "ready" stage.00:11
lbtdjszapi|windows: yes.. and how many maemo people bothered?00:11
djszapi|windowsI think it is better to make some interim compromise.00:12
Elleolbt: okay, cool; have a good rest away from us nagging you ;)00:12
djszapi|windowsuntil that is ready. Elleo's idea will go into that direction you proposed.00:12
Elleoseif: the general system meta-package?00:12
djszapi|windowsit is gonna be any different00:12
lbtso unless you got your finger out and learned the OBS (which has been around since Mer) ... who else is to blame?00:12
djszapi|windowsI am not speaking about that way.00:12
djszapi|windows* not gonna be00:12
Elleoseif: I don't fully understand why it should depend on that?00:12
seifElleo, because it uninstalls it if i try to update00:13
seifand i cant reinstall it00:13
seifElleo, also i keep getting00:14
seifAegis rejecting /var/cache/apt/archives/libsqlite3-0_3.7.7-2_armel.deb: package 'libsqlite3-0' already installed from '' -- not replacing it from unknown origin00:14
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djszapi|windowsit is expected00:14
Elleooh, there's already a libsqlite3 package?00:14
djszapi|windowsyou cannot replace packages that way00:14
ElleoI'll remove that from my repo then00:14
djszapi|windowsElleo: indeed00:14
Elleosomeone had mentioned earlier that there wasn't one so I built it for them00:14
Elleooh well00:15
djszapi|windowsElleo: you should look for the harmattan repo00:15
djszapi|windowsbefore packaging any package.00:15
macmaNElleo: it didnt want to install libsqlite3 for me, so i am guessing that one stayed with system version00:15
ElleomacmaN: ah, or did you mean that the sqlite3 client wasn't available in the repos?00:16
Elleo(when you were discussing it earlier)00:16
macmaNElleo: yes00:16
macmaNthe client00:16
Elleoright, I think I got the wrong end of the stick a bit there then00:16
Elleowhen I have some time tomorrow I'll recreate that package so it just builds the client and not the library as well00:16
Elleountil then I'll just remove the package altogether to avoid problems00:17
macmaNi dont think it did anything bad as such00:17
macmaNThe following NEW packages will be installed sqlite300:17
macmaN0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.00:17
Elleoseif: I suspect the loss of the metapackage was due to it trying to upgrade libsqlite3 from my repo00:18
Elleoseif: rather than from the telepathy-python package (which shouldn't really touch anything related to the metapackage)00:18
Elleoso once OBS updates the repo and removes it you should probably be alright (after an apt-get update)00:19
macmaNi need to figure out how to use this obs magic thing00:19
djszapi|windowsElleo: which is your repository ? Could you give me a link ?00:20
djszapi|windowsElleo: seems you also made some duplicated work00:21
djszapi|windowssome of the packages were already available from there 1-2 weeks ago.00:21
Elleodjszapi|windows: nah, I branched some packages from you00:21
djszapi|windowsand that is what I have been talking about00:21
djszapi|windowsyeah, exactly!00:22
djszapi|windowseverybody is branching or duplicating instead of having it in one place!00:22
Elleodjszapi|windows: well with a branch it can still be maintained in one place, it just means things get rebuilt (but fixes from the master still propogate down to everyone)00:22
Elleoit would be nicer to have a shared repo though I agree00:22
Elleowhether that's through Surrounds or through some interim measure00:23
djszapi|windowsSurrounds is not interim at all00:23
Elleohowever with the sort of interim measure I proposed I'm not sure that'll help much for building stuff00:23
djszapi|windowsthat is a real long future thing00:23
Elleodjszapi|windows: I meant Surrounds *or* something interim00:23
djszapi|windowsforget Surrounds00:23
djszapi|windowswe are discussing solution for the presence00:24
Elleoyeah, I'm saying the problem with what I suggested (simply wgetting and merging repos) doesn't help for building stuff so much (at least not on OBS) unless we could get that shared repo added to the default repositories for those build VMs00:25
Elleoit's only useful for helping get stuff out to people in a more organised manner00:25
djszapi|windowswell, community account is sensible imo00:25
djszapi|windowsand we can see here or some other way who are eager to make packages.00:26
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djszapi|windowsit would be trust based without all the rules which is the long term solution, called Surrounds00:26
MohammadAGI still don't like the concept of OBS00:28
MohammadAGIt'll never work right00:28
piggzbecuase everyone needs an urban dictionary app for those awkward moments when you dont understand what someone just said00:29
MohammadAGsee ^ ?00:29
Elleoseif: it looks like an earlier version of python-telepathy should already be accessible from somewhere?00:30
Elleoseif: for now I'll remove python-telepathy from my repository and have more of a look tomorrow00:31
djszapi|windowsMohammadAG: what is wrong about OBS ?00:39
MohammadAGit'll never work in the sense of extras-devel00:39
Elleoall these half built packages (just distributing libs without binary components) in the official repos are a pain :/ (libsqlite3 without sqlite3, libssl without openssl, etc.)00:40
djszapi|windowsMohammadAG: Could you please ellaborate ?00:41
MohammadAGDo I have to? I've already done that many times00:41
MohammadAGthere's no central repository with all packages00:41
djszapi|windowsok, point me out to the relevant wiki page00:42
djszapi|windowsif you would not like to tell it00:42
MohammadAGerr, channel logs actually00:42
djszapi|windowsMohammadAG: that is what we are trying to solve...00:42
MohammadAGhow? OBS's concept is based on PPAs00:42
MohammadAGPPAs aren't supposed to be central00:43
djszapi|windowsDo you know how OBS works ?00:43
MohammadAGeveryone gets their home repo which has their built packages00:43
kimjusee how the n900 meego-ce is working on obs..00:43
MohammadAGreally, it just adds overhead compared with -devel00:44
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MohammadAGPPAs usually provide newer versions of packages that are in the OS's base repo00:44
djszapi|windowsMohammadAG: I think you are missing that part we /are/ trying to solve it00:45
djszapi|windowswith having a community account so people can work directly to that00:45
MohammadAGin this case, the base repo lacks important packages like git00:45
seifElleo, oki doki00:45
MohammadAGmust've walked late into the conversation00:45
MohammadAGdjszapi|windows, tbh, I don't see why we can't just use the old builder system00:47
MohammadAGit worked well for chinook, diablo and fremantle00:47
djszapi|windowsI like the consistency...00:47
djszapi|windowssame way for any distribution and package format...00:47
djszapi|windowshelps a lot when you already know the system00:48
MohammadAGexactly, all maemo devs know the system00:48
MohammadAGwhy move them to OBS00:48
djszapi|windowsthe world is not only about maemo00:48
kimjuobs has nice feature of submitting (changes made to) the package to some other project in the obs. for my kernel work on n900/meego-ce, I'm doing development on my own :build project, when I've tested things some, I push them to my :test project, and when someone else has tested it from there, I push it to n900-adaptation project. from there it gets pushed to 1.2, 1.3, n900-ce, etc..00:49
djszapi|windowskimju: are you a kernel hacker ? :)00:50
kimjuno-one else needs to know my own build repo, few others know my test repo, but everyone is getting the packages pushed to collaborative repos.00:50
kimjudjszapi|windows, somewhat.. if being current maintainer of kernel-adaptation-n900 counts? :)00:51
djszapi|windowsI guess it counts, nice :)00:51
kimjuand I've been working on other kernel stuff for several years00:52
kimjuamong other things00:52
djszapi|windowsupstream linux kernel contribution ?00:53
kimjubut my point about obs is that the personal repos are not a problem, they are usefull for development. and then when things are "ready", push them towards common repo. maybe via another step or two00:53
MohammadAGdjszapi|windows, sure, thought most devs working on Harmattan are from maemo.org00:53
djszapi|windowsMohammadAG: not that I am aware of00:53
djszapi|windowsI am from not there, not some of my friends either00:54
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MohammadAGand you're working on apps for the platform?00:54
djszapi|windowswell, I have been working on the platform and apps as well00:54
MohammadAGkimju, for your own development, OBS is an excellent concept00:55
djszapi|windowsplatform kernel, userspace + apps00:55
MohammadAGbut for pushing packages like git, x11-utils, libs, etc, I don't see the point00:55
djszapi|windowsbut he has just described it...00:55
kimjudjszapi|windows, I'm not aware that anything with my name on it has been pushed upstream. mostly been working as subcontractor for various customers, doing drivers and baseport. it has been up to the customer what they do with it then.00:55
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kimjugit is not that hard, it is only simple application.00:56
MohammadAGI know, I have it packaged locally00:56
djszapi|windows"simple" is a bit exaggeration :)00:57
djszapi|windowswhere Linus is there cannot be simple :)00:57
kimjuMohammadAG, and really, the libs work just fine too. have you looked at how things work on the n900-ce ?00:57
MohammadAGNope, not really00:57
djszapi|windowskimju: is meego-ce still that slow ?00:57
MohammadAGI've always tried to use meego-ce, but since I have it on my eMMC (alongside maemo), I have to use flasher to boot the kernel00:58
MohammadAGand I've never successfully compiled the kernel, always fails at the modem patch00:58
kimjudjszapi|windows, it has been getting faster.00:58
djszapi|windowskimju: my zypper slowness bug has been open for ages.01:01
djszapi|windowsthat was really a critical issue01:01
MohammadAGhmm, zypper takes time for me, but only slightly more than apt-get on maemo01:01
kimjuthere are issues with some programs. and a lot of depends on the speed of your sd card, especially with random access r/w performance (class rating is mostly about bulk transfer, not random access)01:03
kimjubut generally, the raw performance data looks ok.01:03
MohammadAGI should write down my notes on installing meegoce to the eMMC01:04
MohammadAGthe "official" method on the wiki right now seems to be a script that breaks maemo01:04
djszapi|windowskimju: are there still people in that team ? Everybody is leaving Nokia nowadays01:05
kimjunot everyone working on that is a nokian..01:05
DocScrutinizer51the point however is we'd need a community-experimental repo that has no such QA demands like kimju 's scheme for common repo with one or two prev steps in between from his private test repo01:05
kimjuDocScrutinizer51, and as I've suggested already several times, anyone can do it. if he wants to accept everything without any review, then fine.01:06
kimjusomeone just needs to step up and volunteer to do it.01:06
MohammadAGdo it where?01:07
kimjuobs. just create some home:user:community repo.01:07
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DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: GOOO :-)01:07
kimjuthe name doesn't matter01:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, can't, sleeping at the hospital01:08
macmaNhmmm okey, got syslogd to log auth,*01:09
macmaNJul 25 01:09:11 RM680 sshd[2838]: User user not allowed because account is locked01:09
MohammadAGwhat pisses me off is 1) they don't have wifi, 2) not that big of an issue that needs a sleepover at the hospital01:09
macmaNJul 25 01:09:11 RM680 sshd[2838]: Failed none for invalid user user from port 35483 ssh201:09
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macmaNso that's what's bugging us. i wonder if account is locked because of no password?01:09
macmaNlike mtd mentioned before01:10
MohammadAGmacmaN, I'd try usermod -U username01:10
djszapi|windows_MohammadAG: I wish you the fastest recovery :)01:10
MohammadAGof course, have the flashing image close01:10
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: what happend?01:11
MohammadAGdjszapi|windows_, thanks, should be out of here by 6AM01:11
macmaNMohammadAG: hahaaa! success!!01:11
macmaNwow my blog is on fire tonight01:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, nothing major, thinking of leaving this place, beds aren't very comfy :P01:11
macmaNi am not sure if it can handle like three posts in one night01:11
djszapi|windows_MohammadAG: maemo infection ? :p01:12
MohammadAGno, OBS syndrome :P01:13
djszapi|windows_hehehehehehe ;)01:13
djszapi|windows_MohammadAG: I did/do know the build system that much, but how much memory did it have ? Do you know that bit ?01:20
djszapi|windows_actually the admin of is nowadays towards OBS as well.01:20
MohammadAGdjszapi|windows_, X-Fade should01:21
MohammadAGafaik -devel is 80+ GBs01:21
djszapi|windows_btw, what is the reason why X-Fade is not available on this channel ?01:21
MohammadAGno autojoin01:22
djszapi|windows_hefty :)01:22
MohammadAGhe was one of the first here01:22
djszapi|windows_There is 6 GB for OBS from that I know.01:22
macmaNi just /msg-d x-f01:22
macmaNi just /msg-d x-fade01:22
MohammadAGmacmaN, heh, and I pinged him on #maemo01:22
MohammadAGdjszapi|windows_, afaik they upgraded the servers when Fremantle arrived01:22
MohammadAGthe first two months with the N900 (was pretty much a noob back then) were horrible (repo-wise)01:23
MohammadAGrepos went down a lot, probably cause they were being hammered by N900 users01:23
MohammadAGanyway,'s repos need *some* cleanup01:24
djszapi|windows_I do not wonder kdelibs fails with 6 GB01:24
MohammadAGwith the introduction of QML, I see many devs who are mixing QML and C++ not cleaning up sources01:24
djszapi|windows_with 6 GB full capacity for the Harmattan target01:24
MohammadAGso sources have .o filesin them01:25
Elleoseif: as far as I can tell there's already a python-telepathy package installed in the system by default, and so attempting to upgrade it to my version breaks the metapacakge (since that depends on a specific version of python-telepathy), is there a reason you can't use the version supplied?01:25
djszapi|windows_6 GB is a joke behind a XEN VM.01:25
Elleoseif: or is it just too old for what you need? (seems to be about 2 years out of date)01:25
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djszapi|windows_Elleo: I need some packages if you have free time at some point =p01:28
Elleowell let me know what you need and I'll see about having a poke at it when I get a chance01:29
ElleoI take it you've tried building a direct import from debian without success?01:30
djszapi|windows_failed on more dependency layers :)01:31
djszapi|windows_it is completely viable, I just gave up because of the lack of time01:31
Elleoah, okay01:32
Elleowell if I have time I'll give it a god01:32
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djszapi|windows_anybody coming to the Desktop Summit ?01:39
DocScrutinizer51kimju: I think MohammadAG well catch the ball as soon as he's out of hospital. I'm going to help by checking for noob-proove handling01:39
djszapi|windows_DocScrutinizer51: You are from Germany, you need to come :)01:40
DocScrutinizer51where to?01:40
kimjuDocScrutinizer51, if you need any help, just ask.01:41
DocScrutinizer51do you need the 'png guy'?01:41
djszapi|windows_DocScrutinizer51: Desktop Summit01:45
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DocScrutinizer51djszapi|windows_: yup, but *where*01:46
DocScrutinizer51probably too far away , I'm living in the South01:48
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DocScrutinizerkimju: sure, thanks (I hate it when GSM is swallowing IRC msgs :-D )01:50
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djszapi|windows_DocScrutinizer51: that is too damn, it would be nice to meet f2f :)01:50
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DocScrutinizermaybe you'll tink different after that really happened ;-D01:51
MohammadAGyay, segfault in my facebook app01:52
MohammadAGfun times, it depends on a certain post so I can't reproduce it unless that post is visible, by the time I'm out of this place it'd be gone01:53
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: don't use IM clinets on your last battery! it's going to be a looong night for your N900 and for you ;-D01:53
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MohammadAGIM is offline :p01:54
kimjuMohammadAG, on n950 or something else?01:54
MohammadAGN900, I don't have my N950 yet01:54
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (certain post) that's what coredumps and post morten debugging are made for01:54
MohammadAGnot a debug build :p01:55
DocScrutinizertoo bad01:55
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MohammadAGit's stripped of everything01:55
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DocScrutinizerbut actually doesn't matter much01:55
DocScrutinizeras long as it created a coredump01:55
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DocScrutinizeryou can load debug symbols separately01:55
MohammadAGoh btw01:56
MohammadAGis there a dbus launcher for Harmattan?01:56
DocScrutinizerdbus based applauncher?01:56
MohammadAGhmm actually nvm01:57
MohammadAGDBus services should work fine01:57
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DocScrutinizerplease elaborate02:01
MohammadAGSociality uses DBus to start02:01
MohammadAGthis is how I implemented the run-in-background feature02:01
DocScrutinizerdbus service autostart02:01
MohammadAG/usr/bin/sociality is dbus-send --print-reply --dest=org.maemo.sociality /org/maemo/sociality org.maemo.sociality.top_application02:02
DocScrutinizerisn't that a bit complex, with dbus proxy etc, afaik?02:02
MohammadAGwell, top_application is a method in MainWindow that focuses the window02:03
DocScrutinizerooh, you start it on systemboot?02:03
MohammadAGthe rest is based on /usr/share/dbus-1/services02:03
DocScrutinizeryeah, that's what I meant I think02:03
MohammadAGDBus activation is the term I think02:03
MohammadAGtop_application also shows the window if it's hidden02:04
DocScrutinizerdbus starting the service server when a msg is sent to it via one of the proxy instances by another dbus client02:04
MohammadAGso if the user wishes to keep it in the background (configurable in settings), the X button simply hides the window, and when top_application is called, it's shown again02:04
MohammadAGtwo advantages, 1) instant "start-up", 2) notifications still arive when the app is "closed"02:05
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DocScrutinizerI noticed today that qmlroundtrip can get started on multiple instances :-D02:06
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: usually that mode is called iconify and should get a small icon in systray02:07
DocScrutinizerno notice user about the still active app02:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yeah, systray doesn't exist on maemo02:07
DocScrutinizeralso to open it up again usually02:07
DocScrutinizerthere's the system status menu02:07
MohammadAGopening it up again is through the icon02:07
MohammadAGyeah, but that's maemo specific02:07
MohammadAGsociality is almost clean02:08
MohammadAGnot sure if I should rewrite sociality in QML02:09
DocScrutinizerfor unknown reasons xchat seems to completely fail at implementing all this02:09
MohammadAGusers would want to use for the via Nokia N9 (braggers :P)02:09
MohammadAGand for places checkins, not sure if the stock app allows this02:10
DocScrutinizerI'm out as here's a social networks refugee02:11
MohammadAGit's the only way to chat with friends here02:12
DocScrutinizernot going to get taken piss out and abused by facebook and co02:12
MohammadAGmost people I know prefer facebook over other chat services02:12
divanHi all. I was told by Nokia tech person, that N9 firmware works on N950 like a charm, but they couldn't distribute devkits with it because it has Angry Birds preinstalled, so there are some copyright issues :)02:12
antman8969well that's a lame reason02:13
MohammadAGI wouldn't be surprised02:13
DocScrutinizerdivan: We were told by some Nokia engineer that the N9 image can't get flashed to N950 due to certificate mismatch02:13
DocScrutinizerat least for "our" CE N950 versions02:14
DocScrutinizerNokia core staff has "better" devices02:14
DocScrutinizerso for them it may work02:14
divanDocScrutinizer, I hear from him that first devices had problems with reflashing - aegis or some other security shit interrupted flashing (over the air, as I understood). But latest devkits they got were reflashed without any problems.02:15
infobotdivan meant: DocScrutinizer, I heard from him that first devices had problems with reflashing - aegis or some other security shit interrupted flashing (over the air, as I understood). But latest devkits they got were reflashed without any problems.02:15
divanThere also a small change to get these firmwares unofficially. Not sure yet.02:16
DocScrutinizerstill there are obviously two flavours of devkit: the ones without CE printing and with R&D cert, and the ones that have CE print and no R&D cert02:16
divanHe told that on default N950 firmware he experiences some problems with certificates for some .deb files installation, but on N9 firmware everything worked flawlessly,02:17
divanThe devices I got were sent from Finland last friday.02:17
SpeedEvilIs the N9 image suppose to be the consumer ready image?02:17
DocScrutinizerI heard of Nokia affilates that tried to install the N9 image to N950 and failed02:18
divanSpeedEvil, don't know. Still in active development now.02:18
divanDocScrutinizer, when did they tell you that?02:19
DocScrutinizera week ago?02:19
DocScrutinizerand the info about N9 firmware image requiring a cert that's not available on our N950 was in this chan, so probably should be in chanlog02:20
kimjuI think someone said only a day or two ago here that there are now internal images also for ce n950.02:21
DocScrutinizerhmm, missed that02:21
divanDocScrutinizer, as he told, they had a problems with earlier devices (or firmwares? sry, i was inattentive) - actually they've made a few bricks :) But latest devices where flashed to N9 firmware without problems, as he told.02:21
kimjubut guess that they create images whenever needed.02:21
divankimju, seems to be true.02:22
SpeedEvilIf you turn aegis 'off' - as I understand is possible on some internal n950 builds - does anything not work?02:23
divanbtw, is there any better way to change default IP for SDK Mode than gconftool?02:23
SpeedEvilI mean - do any of the internal apps not work intentionally?02:23
DocScrutinizeractually I feel like going mental about the fact you can't discuss a single N950 related topic without stumbling into aegis02:23
* divan haven't read Harmattan Security FAQ yet, so don't hate aegis.. yet..02:24
kimjuI'm not sure if I hate it. I just hate that I can't override it..02:26
DocScrutinizerI think next time I bother will be when somebody says "yeah, for getting this to work you need to ENable aegis"02:26
GeneralAntillesHow's call quality been for everybody?02:27
MohammadAGDepends who you're talking to :P02:27
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: couldn't even bother to test02:27
kimjuso far I've managed to work around its limitations, but some of the "solutions" are quite ugly.02:27
divanGeneralAntilles, it's pretty nice for me. Even used speakerphone without problems.02:28
MohammadAG"Hello, 911? I'm just testing call quality, can you hear me?"02:28
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: actually I did test it, briefly. With some echo123 for 10s. "works, check, next"02:28
MohammadAGif the person on the other side hangs up, it's good02:28
GeneralAntillesI'm going to say it's on the other end, then.02:28
GeneralAntillesThey were bitching about the call quality.02:28
divanMohammadAG, lol02:28
kimjuI've only answered couple of calls on that, no complaints so far.02:29
divanGeneralAntilles, btw, there are some noice reduction option. Didn't enabled it yet.02:29
MohammadAGoh right02:29
DocScrutinizeryeah, I had them disabled02:29
MohammadAGdoes the N950 choke on calls like the N900?02:29
DocScrutinizeron purpose02:30
achipadivan: there is no N9 firmware per se. R&D certificates and variants are a different story.02:31
DocScrutinizerseems like they're using the "upper" mic to catch ambient noise and subtract it from the signal on "lower" main mic02:31
MohammadAGtwo mics?02:31
divanachipa, just told what Nokia engineer told me.02:31
achipadivan: two nokia engineers disagree, nothing to see, move along ;)02:32
divanDocScrutinizer, cool. It's possible to test it if it works that way.02:32
MohammadAGI think the iPhone does it the other way round, for some stupid reason02:32
DocScrutinizermight turn out to yield very suboptimal results on wind whistles or some hood or hair making noise at upper "earpiece" end of phone02:32
divanachipa, ok, you won )02:32
MohammadAGbottom mic's for noise c., upper one's for voice02:32
MohammadAGof course, Apple engineers were smart enough not to put insulation between the 3.5mm plug and the upper mic02:33
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sure, video recording even has excellent stereo audio02:33
achipadivan: just saying that what has been said to be N9 fw in this context actually means "new fw"02:33
MohammadAGwhich means some iPhones are muted02:33
divanachipa, how much 'new'? )02:34
DocScrutinizerdivan: there are nightly builds available to at least a fraction of core Nokians02:36
achipadivan: as they say today's build is today's build. at some point someone will say 'good enough' and it gets to people02:37
achipaand before you ask - soon TM :)02:40
* SpeedEvil wishes he could be bugtesting - but meh. :)02:40
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: there *are no bugs* in Nokia's sw :-P02:42
achipaSpeedEvil: IMHO bugtesting makes sense when your version and upgrades are clear, and preferably when you get close to a 'real' bugzilla02:42
DocScrutinizerat least not in that version we mere mortals ever get a hold on02:43
achipaDocScrutinizer: hey, you get the stable versions ;)02:44
SpeedEvilachipa: yes - indeed. I know it's irrelevant at the moment if there is no way to get close to nightlies02:44
divanSo, how it's supposed to configure ssh for SDK mode? Should I manually change password? Actually I still didn't find root access for N950.. Any FAQ available?02:44
SpeedEvilOr indeed bugzilla so you can track old ones.02:44
GeneralAntillesachipa, sounds like a threat.02:45
macmaNdivan: devel-su02:46
divanmacmaN, oh, thanks =)02:47
achipaGeneralAntilles: just saying that nightlies (generally, not Nokia-specific) are a two edged sword - you get the goodies over the old one, but can't expect more than a 'yeah, that broke, sorry'02:49
GeneralAntillesachipa, yes, I know. I'm being snarky because I'm bored.02:49
divanDo they really suggest using root ssh access to device on developer nokia wiki???02:51
divanah, root isn't real root on N950, I forgot!02:52
achipano (or do we/they ?)02:52
DocScrutinizerto all those who by bad luck missed it: /topic = A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers check this: | | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | Chanlogs: See ~logs,
divanI was expected to see something like hints to configure developer user02:53
DocScrutinizeron the N950-landing-page there are some really useful links to pages with info02:53
divanDocScrutinizer, thanks!02:54
achipadivan: that's wrong, gotta write myself a reminder for tomorrow to correct...02:54
achipaand yes, I would expect a ssh developer@....02:55
divanachipa, does developer user has default password?02:55
achipadivan: no02:55
DocScrutinizerhehe, I wondered same when scrutinizing passwd02:55
achipadivan: it gets generated when you (re) start the sdk connectivity02:56
DocScrutinizeralmost was about to start john on it02:56
divanWould be nice to have ssh keys initial exchange mechanism (like in MadDeveloper) by default in SDK Connection tool02:56
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divanachipa, hmm... generated and displayed? Didn't see one.02:57
DocScrutinizeractually I was more temped to lock that account02:57
divanachipa, sorry my bad02:57
achipadivan: tap on SDK connectivity and it will tell02:57
divanachipa, see it already.02:57
DocScrutinizeryou *might* take care about changing default pw for root, but I guess a lot of users miss to take care about develper account02:57
achipaDocScrutinizer: plus, it only works if you connect from 10.* or 192.168.*02:58
divanDocScrutinizer, agree. I would disable root ssh access at all.02:58
achipaor rather to... anyway, it has something to do with IPs ;)02:58
SpeedEvilachipa: I set up a open wifi near nokia, and ...02:59
divanachipa, where do ip-addresses denied?02:59
SpeedEvilIt's in /etc/sshd/ssh.config I think02:59
achipadivan: no idea, ssh config would be a good place to look02:59
achipaSpeedEvil: that's always an option. Also for Intel with the exopc's ;)03:00
divanthanks. it's also would be nice to have a ability to configure default ip-address. (or even change default from 2.15 to 2.16 or smth.)03:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I traced my N900 shutdowns03:01
MohammadAGwell, at least the last one03:01
MohammadAGJul 25 02:54:59 Nokia-N900 DSME: battery empty state received03:01
divanmany of N950 developers do have N900 and stored ssh keys for it03:02
MohammadAGit still has about 50 percent left03:02
divanachipa, as I understood currently it could be changed only via gconf, right?03:02
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: The cell in my n900 is getting noticably deader.03:04
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: though not lower in capacity03:05
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DocScrutinizerdivan: /etc/ssh/ssh_config --> AllowUsers *@ *@ *@ *@
DocScrutinizererr /etc/ssh/sshd_config03:08
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: cell aging03:08
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: impedance getting too high03:09
divanDocScrutinizer, yep, I see, thanks03:09
divanI came to the Nokia Store in Moscow yesterday, and asked about cover case for the phone (expected E7's one will fit). When store stuff saw N950, they literally stopped working and left the customers who were in the store :) Even more, two cute girls from the stuff asked my phone :)03:11
divans/phone/phone number/03:12
infobotdivan meant: I came to the Nokia Store in Moscow yesterday, and asked about cover case for the phone number (expected E7's one will fit). When store stuff saw N950, they literally stopped working and left the customers who were in the store :) Even more, two cute girl...03:12
divaninfobot, you're buggy03:12
SpeedEvilAn alternate way to get n950 time - find someone with one, and sneak time with it while they're asleep.03:13
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil so it's not bme being retarded?03:14
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Well - yes and no.03:14
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Would it work if BME diddn't shut it down immediately - possibly for several more months.03:14
SpeedEvilThough calls may drop out03:15
DocScrutinizerI more tend to think it's probably a hardware shutdown03:15
SpeedEvilHardware shuts down at 2750 or something03:15
SpeedEvilA _long_ way from the BME threshold.03:15
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, most other shutdowns are03:16
DocScrutinizeryeah, but aiui bme has a delay03:16
divanI had the similar story with N900, btw. One girl asked me to hold the N900 in her hands and started top open and close slider. After tenth iteration she rolled her eyes and said with a gasp - "Oh God, I'm almost cumming of this sound" )))) That was fun.03:16
MohammadAGlast one wasn't, there was the white LED fading away (dsme)03:16
infobotdivan meant: I had the similar story with N900, btw. One girl asked me to hold the N900 in her hands and started to open and close slider. After tenth iteration she rolled her eyes and said with a gasp - "Oh God, I'm almost cumming of this sound" )))) That was fun.03:16
DocScrutinizerbtw this discussion *should* go to #maemo03:16
divanwow, I just switched N950 off and when I turned it again, the video player image appeared (with paused movie screenshot and Play button) for a few seconds.03:25
DocScrutinizerUSB connected?03:26
divanyep, it was connected03:26
divanI disconnected it and the phone boot up03:26
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DocScrutinizerwhen on USB, the device doesn't shut off at all, it simply changes runlevel03:33
divanDocScrutinizer, what's the idea behind such behavior?03:36
SpeedEvilFaster bootup03:37
divanOk, and final for today (I hope) question - what's the situation with repositories? Any additional repos available? The building and submitting process via OBS is similar to Maemo one, or there are some key differences?03:40
SpeedEvilThere are no unified repositories yet03:42
divanSpeedEvil, is it temporarily?03:43
SpeedEvilPeople are working on it apparantly.03:43
divanAh, good.03:43
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DocScrutinizerdivan: you get a PPA (whatever it was a TLA for), a private repo, but there's no central one yet. MohammadAG is going to change that tomorrow it seems03:48
DocScrutinizerdivan: for now there's
DocScrutinizerthanks rm_you03:49
antman8969whats this? is someone sponsoring a new repo?03:49
divanDocScrutinizer, thanks03:50
DocScrutinizerantman8969: look at it, I think it's pretty obvious03:50
MohammadAG2 more hours and I'm out of this place03:51
MohammadAGI'll sleep the next day, f it, didn't do anything yesterday03:52
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: just don't gable. We need you for some more time :-D03:52
antman8969 docscrutinizer, I understand what that link is.... but you said mohammadag was "taking care of it tomorrow".... how03:53
MohammadAGpublic repo03:54
antman8969THATS what I was asking03:54
MohammadAGwhether it's OBS, or a custom builder03:54
antman8969have you already been bombared with questions? Did you put your plans in a wiki somewhere perhaps?03:55
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I think OBS is *really* the better way as long as it works03:55
MohammadAGprecisely DocScrutinizer03:55
MohammadAG_if_ it works, I have no issues with it03:55
MohammadAGthe point is to have a repo that has no QA03:55
DocScrutinizerI anticipate accepance issues with an alien repo03:55
MohammadAGI hate acceptance, -testing wasn't the nicest experience03:56
DocScrutinizeracceptance as in "generally considered a good idea"03:56
DocScrutinizera community repo won't be worth much when >50% of developer community don't use it03:57
DocScrutinizera community repo on OBS will probably receive instant acceptance03:58
MohammadAGI just want all tools packaged up and ready to install03:58
DocScrutinizersame here :-D03:58
MohammadAGthe SDK/tools repo is sad03:58
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DocScrutinizerdepressing is the term03:58
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GeneralAntillesOff-topic: Teehees @
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SpeedEvilFirst massive bogon.04:21
SpeedEvil30% is not lost in the grid04:21
SpeedEvilAlso - I've chopped power by half with the aid of power meters.04:21
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, the opening bit about turning off the cellphones sort of sets up the whole series of hilarity.04:22
SpeedEvilI was ignoring that.04:22
GeneralAntillesI like his DSP-based detection of device usage, though.04:22
DocScrutinizeractually that's an idea for an app I had recently, call it an extension of the original magnetometer electric current detector04:23
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, specific link.04:24
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, the scary part is that LOTS AND LOTS of people buy completely into this insanity.04:24
DocScrutinizerI thought a general timer that records arbitrary sensor|filter|threshold states would be cool to do such things like detecting when the fridge is on/off, or when somebody ringed the doorbell, or when sun started to shine, or.... or....04:25
SpeedEvilI question if that's really possible.04:25
SpeedEvilHowever GeneralAntilles - the privacy violations are quite correct.04:26
SpeedEvilI've got a 5s log of power use. It's quite easy.04:26
GeneralAntillesToo bad about natural monopolies.04:28
GeneralAntillesI want a fuel cell I can stick in my garage.04:28
GeneralAntillesaugment with solar.04:28
SpeedEvilI have 600W of solar cells I need to solder up.04:29
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: the facts are 66% correct (the 33% incorrect are of course the most exciting part they thought they can sell the whole story with) - you can't detect what's on the other end of a PSU, usually04:32
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: My idea was for N9(50), not for the powermeter04:33
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, I was assuming that the amount of noise generated by the devices running in an averaged sized household would make any sort of meaningful classification difficult anyway.04:34
DocScrutinizernot necessarily, but for sure detecting a 5W DC motor powered by a PSU was next to impossible04:35
SpeedEvilFor much stuff - fridges, heaters, lights, it's easy04:35
SpeedEvilFridges - for example - have a high spike, then an exponential tailoff plus a constant04:36
DocScrutinizerfor lights though you can't tell apart different rooms with same type of illumination04:36
DocScrutinizerTermana: moo04:36
DocScrutinizeralso it's absolutely impossible to detect 100,000s of different appliances you *could* use, by just looking up the individual electrical power fingerprint04:38
DocScrutinizeryou could distinguish the 20 or 50 you got at home, after proper training phase04:39
DocScrutinizeryou probably even could tell which program the TV is on04:39
DocScrutinizerif it is a CRT or a model with dynamic backlight04:40
SpeedEvilEven just fridge + lights tells you a lot04:41
SpeedEvilAnd some signatures are obvious04:41
DocScrutinizerfridge tells you about nuttin in fact04:41
SpeedEvil2kw for 60s every morning = kettle04:41
SpeedEvildoor openings04:41
DocScrutinizeryou can't detect door openings04:41
SpeedEvilYou can04:41
DocScrutinizerstatistically yes, to the point - no04:42
SpeedEvilNot by the light - but by the delta-t changing04:42
SpeedEvilWhen I don't open the door, my fridge cycles every 53 min or so.04:42
DocScrutinizeryup, but that's also influenced by how much is inside the fridge, whether or not it gets some sun, the room temp, and whatnot else04:43
SpeedEvilIf I open the door, it cycles at least 10 min earlier04:43
SpeedEvilIt's really quite static. At least in my case.04:43
SpeedEvilAmbient is of course an issue, though it's always a very small change - not 1/5th you get on door-open04:43
DocScrutinizerI bet me filling my fridge with 5L of new milk, plus maybe opening the *** freezer, will quite mess up any statistical approach04:45
DocScrutinizertoo many variables04:45
SpeedEvilyou can easily tell someone getting the milk out when they wake up, for example.04:46
DocScrutinizeryou might find out about door when absolutely static setup04:46
DocScrutinizeranyway this dude shot my eardrums04:47
DocScrutinizerI bet those privacy fanatics also claim for anonymous internet access04:49
DocScrutinizerI'm very concerned about privacy, but not exactly concerned about smart power meter04:50
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GeneralAntillesAnybody got a PackRat link handy?05:12
GeneralAntillesrm_you, ping?05:12
DocScrutinizernow on N950-landing-page (and thanks nokia for the js on the projects page, and the URL containing [] )05:39
DocScrutinizerCBA to figure how to fix the URL so it shows correctly on mediawiki05:40
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ieatlintcomplaining about smartmeters makes about as much sense as complaining that your phone company is tracking your phone calls06:33
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: well, implementing a DSP is a bit of an overkill for a power meter06:35
DocScrutinizeresp since the energy company can't really use the data you'd get with a DSP and nifty algos for optimizing their main duty of delivering good quality cheap electric energy06:37
ieatlintthey will here06:38
ieatlintthey're talking about tiered charges, electricity will cost more at certain times a day, to encourage you to avoid doing high-power items during peak times06:38
DocScrutinizeruhuh, how?06:38
ieatlintpresumably by recording how much power you used during a given hour of the day06:39
DocScrutinizerso, what got that to do with using a DSP for meters?06:39
ieatlinti must be misunderstanding, as the DSP i'm assuming here is for generating these statistics06:39
DocScrutinizerignal processing isn't about statistics06:40
ieatlintwell wouldn't even the measuring of the usage be signal processing?06:40
DocScrutinizerit's all about very detailed analysis of the signal aka power consumption per 1/50th  of a seconf06:41
DocScrutinizerDSP is a very clearly defined hw technology06:41
infobotmethinks dsp is (Digital Signal Processor) A DSP is a microprocessor designed to work with analog signals such as video or audio that have been digitally encoded. The DSP then takes these digital representations and performs operations on them. DSPs are used in video, sound, and modem technology. Intel's MMX instruction set is basically an attempt to make the Pentium processor line capable of DSP operations. This follows Intel's theory of putting all ...06:41
ieatlintwell, then the only reason i can fathom for a DSP would be the transmission of the collected data06:42
DocScrutinizerstatistics are general purpose low speed computing06:42
DocScrutinizerhmm, fair enough06:43
ieatlintmost of the criticism around here of them are based on bizarre claims that they cause cancer06:44
ieatlintyeah, it's funny until you realize they're serious06:45
DocScrutinizerI bet they are, and hell probably they're right :-P All these worries all the time, this can't go unnoticed by your immune system06:46
DocScrutinizerso it probably really causes cancer, for those who are affraid it would06:46
DocScrutinizerit's like the massively increased number of headaches and other illness around that new BTS station, where the telco speaker answered "worrying, really worrying. And how bad will it get when next week we get power on the system!"06:48
ieatlintheh, yeah, pretty much06:49
ieatlintmy favourite is when they block new cell towers due to health concerns, and then complain that their cell phone signal sucks06:49
ieatlintthis whole cause/effect thing is hard to follow, they get lost somewhere in the middle06:49
DocScrutinizerbtw that's why here often the BTS are disguised now06:52
DocScrutinizerlooking like a new chimney, whatever06:53
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ieatlintthey disguise them to blend in here more, but neighbours are still notified well in advance of any installation, and they can then petition to block its installation06:54
ieatlintthey're often successful06:54
DocScrutinizerparadox, as the neighbours usually are the ones that get least of any EM radiation of those highly selectively antennae06:55
ieatlintheh, we have the excellent acronym NIMBY for them -- "not in my backyard"06:56
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: paradox, as the neighbours usually are the ones that get least of any EM radiation of those highly directional antennae06:56
DocScrutinizerusually the EM load created by their own home APs is way higher than that of a BTS 50m away06:58
DocScrutinizeror DECT phones06:59
rm_youGeneralAntilles: hey07:25
rm_youBTW i have mplayer and pandora built07:25
rm_youpandora requires mplayer07:25
rm_youerr pyRadio07:25
rm_youit is bugged right now, it won't advance to the next dong, but it WORKS, so that's something07:25
rm_youdidn't have time to work on it today07:25
rm_youthere's some weird issues with thread locking07:25
rm_you*won't advance to the next song *automatically* you just have to press the button to advance07:26
rm_youanywho, off to bed >_>07:26
rm_yousorry I missed you GeneralAntilles07:26
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antman8969tried them both gj rm_you07:27
rm_youi wish i could get MAFW backend working for pyRadio >_>07:28
rm_youmeanwhile the mplayer backend is buggy and more intensive, but it works07:28
rm_youif someone wants to look at that, i will put the code up too07:28
antman8969yea not a big fan of slave mplayer.. but it does work07:29
lynxisjuhuu, n950 is done with kernel compilation ;)07:30
rm_youit's hacked together quickly07:30
rm_youso i can listen to pandora again on my drive home from work :P07:30
rm_youi'm expecting the original maintainer prolly to do a proper job07:30
rm_youbut i will still try to get it slightly more usable in the meantime07:31
rm_youwhen i can07:31
antman8969including interface? or just logic07:31
rm_youlogic first07:31
rm_youthen interface07:31
antman8969sounds good07:31
rm_youmight rewrite interface in QML if i figure out how to do python with QtCreator07:31
rm_youor something07:31
rm_youanywho, sleep time07:31
* rm_you sleeps07:31
antman8969qml probably the way to go07:31
antman8969haha good night07:31
lynxisrm_you, fm-radio or mplayer ?07:31
antman8969pyradio using mplayer07:32
antman8969pandora client07:32
antman8969i'll get you the link to his debs... sec07:32
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: hey, I'm a bit late but I want to remind you on MWKN07:33
antman8969lol on monday07:33
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, yep, finished it up. Thanks!08:08
GeneralAntillesJaffa's publishing script ran an hour early.08:18
GeneralAntillesMissing a front page article and half of the "Thanks!" story. . . .08:18
MohammadAGblame daylight savings08:19
GAN900UTC should be UTC should be UTC. :(08:20
GAN900Funnily enough, it screwed fiferboy exclussively.08:21
GAN900He's not thanked and his story isn't on the front page.08:21
GAN900RST38h, Jaffa's on vacation. mwkn's publishing is now scripted, but the scripts picked things up an hour early.08:31
GAN9005 UTC instead of 608:31
RST38hGAN: Finally got the N950 btw08:36
RST38hGAN: Looks cool, albeit unfinished and almost asking to file a bunch of bug reports. Will try developing today.08:37
Stskeepsjust recall it's an ancient firmware :P it's incredible how many bugs get fixed in the last sprints08:37
RST38hStskeeps: yeah... as long as I avoid certain spots though (like turning on the virtual kbd capslock and then going into numbers entry) it feels more or less ok =)08:38
MohammadAGat least you got it :P08:39
RST38hStskeeps: There is one issue with the current QML docs btw - they all assume you are using Qt Creator. I mean, I *can* use Qt Creator, but doing it directly on Linux (with local OBS) feels more comfortable08:39
StskeepsRST38h: no clue08:40
RST38hMohammad: Just wait, I got lucky08:40
* Stskeeps writes qml manually08:40
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RST38hMohammad: If I weren't lucky, it would be stuck in customs now, forever.08:40
RST38hStskeeps: same here08:40
MohammadAGRST38h, Russian customs as bad as Israeli customs? I'm surprised08:42
RST38hMohammad: Russian customs are pretty much a tool for theiremployees to enrich themselves08:43
RST38hMohammad: And the customs law has been designed specifically for this purpose08:43
MohammadAGI was almost taxed 250 bucks for the DDP N90008:43
RST38h250 is nothing08:44
RST38hTry 60008:44
MohammadAGit's 34% of the price here for mobiles08:44
MohammadAGI imagine the NULL price of the N950 will delay calculations by a week08:44
RST38hHere, the customs agent can go into a huge book, find a random item there, and tax your parcel according to that random item08:45
MohammadAGof course, they can say it's priceless and tax me for that08:45
RST38hSaying that you have put the price incorrectly, and he is doing his own price evaluation08:45
StskeepsMohammadAG: 5% of oo?08:45
MohammadAGno, 34%08:46
MohammadAGFunny how the receipt of the N900 said Mobile computer, they ignored the computer part08:47
MohammadAGlaptops/computers are taxed 17%08:48
MohammadAGbut really, customs are nothing compared with security, they isolated my amplifier in a room with explosive material labels on it08:49
ieatlintif you really want to have fun, give me your address and i'll mail you a big bag of flour and some modeling clay09:07
ieatlintplus some batteries and misc wire09:07
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* divan changed system language and device won't boot ( Loop with reboots (10:04
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razvawayin WebView, what does it take to kill the software keyboard once it shows up? :D10:09
antman8969in theory, causing a text field to lose active focus10:19
razvawaytheory doesn't match practice for me unfortunately :) it even stays there after I close my makeshift dialog10:24
razvawaybut I've tried it in a sheet also, so it's likely not my code that does something weird10:25
razvawayand my dialog was a fullscreen semi-transparent Item that's a child of a sheet, anyway, nothing spectacular10:25
razvawaybut this is a huge problem for any oauth app...10:26
divanAnyone knows why Maps requires Ovi authorization?10:27
razvawayMaps the app or maps the component?10:28
divanrazvaway, the App10:29
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divanActually I don't mind, but Ovi login doesn't work for me (
razvanpetruwell, Nokia seems to be borrowing a trick from Google these days, you have to "activate" phones, activate apps and so on. No benefit whatsoever for the user, but they can track you much easier this way...10:30
fluxI guess they want to know who they are giving their data to. perhaps in hopes to get some user data, reduce possibility of scraping (maps could be fingerprinted?), etc. or maybe they do it because they can ;).10:30
razvanpetruand I doubt that anyone will bother to create another map so meego will be stuck with ovi maps10:30
fluxsure they will. there are openstreetmaps and google maps based ones for n900 as well, I would be surprised to -not- see them on meego.10:31
divanI've tried already all suggestions to make SSO Sign In to work(reset password, reflash, set automatic time update option), but still no luck (10:31
razvanpetruwell google is even worse with tracking :P10:32
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razvanpetrudivan: doesn't it have the option to create an account? symbian phones let you do that when activating10:32
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razvanpetruI'm talking about companies like Sygic, Navigon, etc. They would not invest in MeeGo due to Nokia's comments and the fact that OviMaps is free10:33
divanrazvanpetru, I have account already.. And people who claiming that error says creating new account doesn't work either.10:33
RST38hThe "and the fact..." part is completely unnecessary10:33
maxwanyone know how to get album art in the music app?10:34
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MohammadAGsame as on N90010:37
djszapi|windowsMohammadAG: out of the not comfy beds ? :p10:37
MohammadAGnot yet :/10:40
maxwMohammadAG: I copied my music from the n900, but no album art is there some folder I should copy?10:42
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MohammadAGback home11:24
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MohammadAGhmm, can't log into OBS11:32
djszapi|windowswhy not ?11:35
MohammadAGauthentication failed, not sure why11:35
MohammadAG100% sure I have an account there11:35
djszapi|windows Job seems to be stuck here, killed. [ 80%] No buildstatus set, either the packager broke the base system (glibc/bash/perl) or the build host has a kernel or hardware problem, OBS server will retry...11:39
djszapi|windowslbt_away ^11:39
MohammadAGdjszapi|windows, can you look through users' homes?11:40
MohammadAGI'm not sure what my username is11:40
djszapi|windowssorry, I am on Windows, every step is a pain...11:41
djszapi|windowsSearch results for "mohammadag"  (0)11:46
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MohammadAGwhat about mohammad7410?11:48
Kaadlajkhome:mohammad7410 I can find that11:48
MohammadAGwonder what my password is, I'm fairly sure I never changed it11:49 one11:49
djszapi|windowsMohammagAG: reminder, password change ?11:49
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MohammadAGStskeeps, one doesn't work11:51
MohammadAGcan anyone change it?11:53
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djszapi|windowssince lbt is away, I would suggest X-Fade on #maemo or #meego11:53
MohammadAGhe's usually away too :P11:54
djszapi|windowsif you cannot do it yourself (which is odd)11:54
StskeepsMohammadAG: click recover password on site?11:54
MohammadAGStskeeps, my pass works for meego.com11:54
Stskeepsok, then something broken on cobs side11:54
Stskeepssame db11:54
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infobotlardman: please check, cheers DocScr12:37
razvanpetruhow can I make a call from QML? :)12:37
djszapi|windowsto a C++ code or to a javascript method ?12:38
lardmanphone call?12:38
razvanpetruclick on contact details (email, web, phone) and take an action using the native app12:38
djszapi|windowsoh :)12:38
razvanpetruideally it would be QML...12:38
khertanrazvanpetru, ^12:43
razvanpetruthanks khertan, does this close the browser after the call? on symbian I had the issue where it opened the web browser, made the call, but then the browser just sat there12:44
lardmankhertan: what provides that fn?12:44
razvanpetrulardman: it's a protocol12:44
razvanpetrulike http, ftp, etc12:44
lardmanthis is QML then?12:44
khertanit s a browser protocol12:44
razvanpetrunot really QML :)12:44
razvanpetrubut if it's the only way...12:45
lardmanit opens the browser then rather than using the MIME handlers?12:45
razvanpetruI don't know, on Symbian it does12:45
razvanpetruI will try it12:45
lardmanOn Fremantle it would just open the default tel: handler12:45
lardmanwas part of QtM12:45
razvanpetruthat's good, makes sense12:45
lardmansame works for sms: iirc12:46
razvanpetruwhat was part of QtM?12:46
lardmanthe fn to open a url iirc12:46
razvanpetruhm... thought it was qtcore12:46
khertanrazvanpetru, it didn't open browser on my n95012:46
lardmanhmm, has been a while, I may be wrong12:47
razvanpetrusuper :)12:47
razvanpetruotoh, symbian has a lot of these gotchas12:47
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khertanbut it didn't iniate a call too12:48
khertanit s present screen where you can choose to open a call or send a message12:48
khertanand details of the contact12:48
razvanpetrueven better :)12:48
razvanpetruit's actually the preferred UX way, put the user in control12:49
khertanbut depends on use case12:50
maxwstill can't figure out the album art - I copied the /home/user/.cache/media-art directory from my n900 to my n950, but no joy. any ideas?12:50
khertanit was working out of the box for me12:51
maxwI guess you have your album art inside the files themselves, right?12:51
maxwI used mussorgsky on n900 to get it all and I don't think it embeds them.12:52
maxwI think it puts the album art into the .cache/media-art folder...or perhaps I'm mistaken.12:53
spenapmaxw, mussorgsky is being ported to the N9(50)12:56
spenapI'll try to drag the develper to this channel, one sec12:56
maxwactually, I have a meeting in a few minutes...12:56
spenapwell, he went to have lunch12:57
maxwI'd love to pick it up again after that though12:57
spenapso you'll have to talk later :)12:57
maxwoh, good :)12:57
maxwI guess it could work out well then12:57
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frade_did anybody mention mussorgsky?12:57
spenapmaxw, ^12:57
frade_well, mussorgsky in QML is on its way12:58
frade_(qmlui branch in the garage)12:58
lardmanStskeeps: ping12:59
spenapfrade_, maxw is having a meeting now, so you can talk later12:59
Stskeepslardman: pong12:59
lardmanStskeeps: I've grabbed the meego-de-camera source, but can't really see how one would add in recogniser functionality for e.g. barcodes; did you have any specific thoughts when you were asking about it last week?13:00
lardmancertainly I can't see why one would want it as a qml component as it looks like the nitty gritty is still done much lower down in, presumably, C++ code13:01
Stskeepslardman: agreed, i didn't get too much into it, but i had thought about using zbar-qt and then displaying somehow in the qml13:01
Stskeepsor every 3 seconds snapshot and run zbar-qt on it13:01
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lardmanStskeeps: display would work fine in qml, but it's how to plumb it into the graphics pipeline13:01
lardmanthere are gst decoder elements, however they are very cpu intensive, so you'd not want them running inline unless you could cheaply decide whether a frame is likely to contain a barcode13:02
Stskeepsfor my purpose i just want random pickups, ie, once in a while look for a tag13:03
Stskeepsso if i hold my device steady for 2-3 secs at a tag, it's likely to see it13:03
lardmanlive video?13:03
lardmandoes it do something else too, other than barcode decoding?13:04
lardmantherefore will the extra cpu be in line with other processing that's occuring anyway13:04
Stskeepsi guess i should do a proper writeup of what i'm trying to accomplish :P13:05
lardmanwell let me know as then I can see how that fits in with what I'm planning13:05
lardmaneven just a few lines scribbled in an email/pm13:06
Stskeepsafter work i'll spend some time on it13:06
alteregoTbh, showing video when reading barcodes isn't exactly necessary' a few stills taken every now and then would suffice.13:06
lardmanalterego: help with aiming though13:06
lardmanand also live video looks nicer than <10fps, but yes I quite agree13:06
alteregoYes, but there's nothing stopping you from having a viewfinder, you just don't need to process the actual video for codes.13:07
lardmanhaving to support ~30fps is a pita as some decoders can't keep up13:07
lardmanindeed, but it makes the code more complex13:07
lardmanand you then need to trade off how hard the code searches for a barcode in a given frame (which takes longer) vs keeping up with the framerate13:08
alteregoI'd probably use 2 pipelkines.13:08
lardmanthat is what mBarcode does13:08
lardmanthough mBarcode also uses two different decoders, which means you either need 3 pipelines, which is slow, or you need to use threads for the decoders, which is the option I eventuallt chose13:09
lardmanMoving to a single deocder (e.g. ZXing) would make life easier in some ways13:09
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MohammadAGlardman, why rewrite it in QML though?13:30
MohammadAGyou could do the settings UI and other stuff in QML, the viewfinder window can stay the same13:30
lardmanMohammadAG: it's a question of how to provide a barcode scanning component that can be used easily13:31
lardmanbut yeah one option is to wrap the viewfinder etc so people can embed it13:31
MohammadAGlardman, I meant you can keep the existing code for the viewfinder13:32
MohammadAGthere's no point in rewriting that in QML, waste of time13:32
lardmanthough scanning from a buffer rather than the component owning the video pipeline might also be appealing, and I can't see how that can be done with qml easily13:32
lardmanMohammadAG: yep, s/rewrite/wrap13:32
MohammadAGrewrite everything in QML, except the viewfinder13:32
MohammadAGnow to figure out why my N900 is maxing out LED currents13:32
lardmanWell rewrite the ui you mean, I can't see QML working well for threads and plugins13:33
MohammadAGexactly, so why change it from pure Qt13:33
MohammadAGyou could do thing like application settings in QML, if you need a fancier look13:34
MohammadAGor move to MTF13:34
leinirmtf's deprecated though...13:34
* lardman wonders if he can wait for file creation events13:37
lardmanlike have mBarcode wait for jpegs to be created in the DCIM dir?13:38
lardmanhmm, thanks13:39
fralsqfilewatcher or somthing if you are going the qt path ;)13:41
lardmanah cool, thanks frals13:41
fralsqfilesystemwatcher even :)13:42
lardmanso much easier with the internet and people to ask questions of13:44
* lardman undestands he should have broadband connected this week....13:45
fralshehe :)13:51
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* SpeedEvil suspects lardman is guilty like many of us of
lardmanwell certainly it's painful trying to write code from scratch without having examples available14:08
* lardman is currently cursing Qt's model view stuff14:09
fralsSpeedEvil: :D14:10
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Venemogood afternoon14:33
VenemoI'm on just another train trip, and it upset me that there is no IRC client on da N950...14:34
Venemoso I started making one :)14:34
TheBootrooi'm developping an abstraction class for managing user interfaces on different qt mobile platforms, at the moment, S60, S^3, Maemo5, MeeGo  and Harmattan, so i need some information about the last oe14:34
Venemoit's fun, but my laptop battery will die soon. :(14:34
VenemoTheBootroo, what kind of info do you need?14:34
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TheBootrooVenemo: i woudl like to know first if Harmaatan uses MeeGoTouchCompositor as window manager ?14:35
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TheBootrooVenemo: are you right ?14:37
VenemoTheBootroo, yes, Harmattan uses the same software that is under the MeeGo Handset UX14:37
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TheBootrooVenemo: ok14:37
Venemosorry, I'm on a train and connected to the internet through the N95014:37
TheBootroobecause the usual window flags for Symbian and maemo screen orientation policy no more work on n95014:37
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TheBootroothe window is always started in landscape and stay in it14:37
TheBootrooso what flag should i use to lock portrait/locklandscape/ autoorientation ?14:38
fralsdont have the kboard out and try again14:38
TheBootroofrals: keybord is closed and device is held vertically, but the screen rotates jsut before the app starts14:39
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TheBootrooso the switcher/menu/ statusbar are in landscape then, which is bad14:39
Venemo_sorry, it's disconnecting me all the time14:39
TheBootrooVenemo_: [13:37] <TheBootroo> because the usual window flags for Symbian and maemo screen orientation policy no more work on n950 [13:37] == Wirta [] has joined #harmattan [13:37] <TheBootroo> the window is always started in landscape and stay in it [13:38] <TheBootroo> so what flag should i use to lock portrait/locklandscape/ autoorientation ? [13:38] <frals> dont have the kboard out and try a14:40
TheBootrooany idea ?14:40
Venemo_close the hw keyboard14:40
Venemo_then try to rotate it14:40
Venemo_all my QML apps rotate just fine automatically, without needing me to write any code14:41
TheBootrooVenemo_: the hw kb is always closed and the device is held vertical on a kick stand14:41
MekI think you do need to use the qt components PageWindow or wahtever it was called for orientation to work?14:41
TheBootrooVenemo_: plain QML or Harmattan Components ? because the last is ok but plain QML doesn't rotate at all ...14:41
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Mekat least when I tried, even a Sheet that doesn't have a Page as (visual)Parent won't rotate properly14:41
TheBootrooMek: since i dev a cross plateform absctraction libary i can't base on harmattan only components, so i need to find how to implement the windows manager flag for orientation14:42
TheBootrooMek: so i don't use Harmattan components, i'm developping my own in plain QML and C++14:43
Venemo_TheBootroo, is it a QML app?14:43
TheBootrooVenemo_: a QtDeclarative one exactly14:43
Venemo_TheBootroo, I use MeeGo Qt Components14:43
Mekwell, in theory using qt components should be cross platform, but for now there is just harmattan and symbian components around I think14:43
TheBootrooi've already implemented scene rotation, based on QtMobility's QOrientationFilter14:44
TheBootroobut the windows manager beleives the app is in landscape so he keeps the rest of system ui in landscape14:44
Venemo_or whatever it's called14:44
TheBootrooVenemo_: i see what you talk about14:45
TheBootroobut i need to integrate the right code in my class to make it work on harmattan but too on meego maemo symbian14:45
TheBootrooso i looking for the magical bits to inform the window manager that my app is  no more on landscape mode14:46
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maxwis the mussorgsky guy back?14:59
frade_maxw, yes14:59
maxwhi...I know you ;)15:00
MekTheBootroo: that bit maybe?15:00
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maxwfrade_: I was wondering how to get my n900 album art working on n95015:01
lcukmaxw, heh I just asked a question on #meego relating to albumart15:01
lcukor rather thumbnialing and remembering that albumart is extracted in similarish manner15:02
maxwit'd be really cool to have a tumbler plugin for this ;)15:02
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maxwlcuk, frade_: any pointers for how to get album art working? it seems like some have it working 'out of the box'...15:07
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frade_maxw, the spec has changed between fremantle and harmattan15:12
maxwok, so what is the best approach?15:12
frade_in fremantle the filename was "md5("") - md5 (album)"15:12
frade_now is md5 (artist) - md5 (album)15:12
frade_maxw, either you put the album-art as cover.png in the album folders...15:13
frade_or you wait a bit for mussorgsky for harmattan :)15:13
maxwsounds like a script is needed15:13
lcukfrade_, \o/15:13
frade_actually I could build a .deb that you can install15:13
frade_the part of downloading album-art is working15:13
maxwsure...don't mind being a tester ;)15:13
frade_and if you do it with the media player running the thumbnails are updated "live"15:14
TheBootrooMek: partially solves the problem : i can informe the window manager taht the window is at -90 angle, but it makes some glitches appear when trying to swipe in portrait, but at least status bar is on top15:14
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TheBootrooMek: how can i do a screenshot on N950, since Ctrl+Shift+P doesn't seems to work in my fullscreen app ?15:16
spenapTheBootroo, widgets gallery will do that15:17
TheBootroospenap: do what ?15:17
spenapwidgets gallery -> debug tools -> take a screenshot15:17
TheBootroospenap: ohh ok15:17
spenapyou can set a delay and that's it15:17
spenapreally useful15:18
spenapyou should check this widgets gallery app15:18
spenapbecause it also provides all this stuff about bounding rectangles, layouts, sizes, styles...15:18
spenapthat's under the "information display" section15:19
spenapI'm not sure if that part works with qml applications15:19
spenapit works with mtf15:19
TheBootroospenap: all debug stuff for geometry has been already implemented in my own lib15:19
TheBootrooand my own libuses QtDeclarative15:19
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TheBootroospenap: wait a second i post a screenshot15:22
spenapnot going anywhere, TheBootroo, so take your time15:23
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TheBootrooits a test app for my lib, using test icons15:24
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TheBootroobasically you initialize a MWTk_Window with title and icon, start adding pages with 'addPage(QString page_id); and then fill apges with toolbar buttons, scrollable entries and all15:25
TheBootrootoolbars and pages already work, rotation too15:25
TheBootroo(with animation)15:25
TheBootrooscrolling works too, i now have to developp small basic basic widgets to add in scrollable view and add them to my MWTk_ViewManager class15:26
spenapso your idea is to provide some alternatives to QML? or I didn't get you too well15:26
spenapbecause that feels like really a lot of work15:27
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TheBootroonot an alternative to QML, a cross plateform mobile components for QtDeclarative, usable fully from C++ (for persons like me who don't like typing QML code) and which can be used the same way on every system (you can even test your app on your windows/linux box)15:28
TheBootroospenap: the hardest work was already done last week15:28
spenapTheBootroo, that's nice :)15:29
spenapdo you have a project website?15:29
lardmanI do wish it were possible to group .cpp/.h files in Qt creator15:29
TheBootroobasically i provide a full C++ api to create in a few lines a stacked pages window filled from static and/or dynamic data, stylable with css-like syntaxis...15:29
harbaumTheBootroo: Ah, and add a layout engine and be api compatible with plain qt ...15:29
achipalardman: that is a template. I do wish it were possible to $FEATURE in Qt creator15:30
lcuklardman, - no header files!15:30
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TheBootroospenap: i have a gitorious (but not really up to date because i can only push the night, 22 port is blocked at work ...)15:30
lcukwrite your class and internally it makes headers15:30
spenapTheBootroo, since besides all the hard work coding you'll need to attract developers15:30
spenapI'd start by doing that15:30
spenap:), some nice website15:31
achipaI do find it fascinating however how much people are willing to work in order to avoid work15:31
TheBootrooharbaum: not really, but a have a smart layout system, adapting automattically the components matching orientation and window size15:31
spenapexplaining the advantages you provide and showing some screenshots in different platforms15:31
TheBootroospenap: i have a demo apps website but apps were coded using my older QWidget based lib15:31
TheBootroobut its nice :15:31
TheBootrooachipa: its true, i made alot of apps with same ui, and i plan in doing more, so i regroup my own created classes in a public api lib, which is good for community15:32
TheBootroosi if you dont like, don't use it, but if you like, it will save you a lot of time15:33
lardmanlcuk: I don't mind header files, would just like to be able to group the files into different sections so I know whether I'm working on the UI or the db or this/that/the other15:33
* lcuk nods15:34
TheBootroospenap: i will push an update on gitorious tonight which fixed a rotation bug on N95015:34
lardmandoesn't help that the files are all lower case, makes it harder to read them15:34
achipahey, don't get me wrong, I like all sorts of projects, even if completely useless (which yours clearly isn't), it's just that is seems to be going against the same mountain the trolls tried to climb and then said 'too much compromises'15:34
TheBootroolardman: just make your sources physically in subfolders as src/ui src/db ... etc15:35
lardmanah, that's a good idea15:35
TheBootrooachipa: i don't make compromise i try to give the mobile apps developpement a new speed, avoiding the qml wheel reinventing, it will be done one time for all15:36
spenapTheBootroo, well, I'm finding myself quite comfortable when using QML, so I'm not the target for your work (at least at the moment), but I won't discourage you: it looks very nice and advanced already15:36
achipaTheBootroo: the biggest problem on the long run that Nok does take QML seriously, and that's why most of the actual declarative functionality is so buried/private (=compatibility level kept on QML)15:36
TheBootroolardman: ur welcome15:36
TheBootrooachipa: QML is based on qtdeclarative so i will only need a few fixed to keep it working15:36
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achipaTheBootroo: what I'm saying is that qtdeclarative exposes very little publicly, and that is for a reason15:37
TheBootrooachipa: and i use only this few, really15:37
TheBootrooachipa: i limit myself to x, y, width, height, anchors, and raw QPainter15:38
TheBootrooso it must work for age15:38
TheBootrooachipa: that the reason i'm rewriting my old qwidget lib15:38
TheBootrooelsewhere i would have kept it in state15:38
Mekwell, raw qpainter is what is going away when qml moves to scenegraph in qt515:39
achipadon't let me discourage you (hey, I'm the guy who is writing a scheduler in QML for kicks so should not really be taken seriously anyway... ;) )15:39
TheBootrooMek: will not be hard to move to other class15:40
TheBootrooand i don't think qpainter will go, it will only use opengl backend15:41
TheBootrooQPainter is the part of QtGui which will be kept in Qt515:41
TheBootrooonly QWidget based things will go to Qt Widgets deprecated modules15:41
Mekwell, scenegraph is supposed to replace qpainter for qml; qpainter itself will of course stay for qwidget and "old" qml15:42
Meki'm not sure exactly how scenegraph and drawing your own stuff will work together15:42
TheBootrooMek: scenegraph doesn't have a proper drawing methods, scenegraph is the equivalent of qgraphicsScene, so it will use QPainter class for painting instructions15:44
TheBootrooso not only for old things15:45
TheBootrooscenegraph is not a new painting language, only an optimized scene manager15:45
TheBootroowhich set opengl as default backend15:45
TheBootroobut frontend stays QPainter15:45
Mekuhm, but the point of scenegraph was to among other thigns re-arrange the order in which stuff is painted I thought? which is not possible with a qpainter-like api. But i might have misunderstood15:45
TheBootrooMek: you can already do that with qpainter15:46
Mek"One might question were QPainter fits with this. The answer is that it doesn’t – not directly anyway. There is an example, paint2D, which shows one way of integrating the two. Another way would be to paint directly into the context of the scene graph before or after the scene graph renders." from one of the blog posts about scengraph...15:46
TheBootrooand new qml will use declarative things too, so QtDeclarative will not disappear, only new things (tons i hope) will be added to the currently very poort api15:47
TheBootrooMek: so what classe you can use to draw on scenegraph ? not directely opengl is hope ?15:48
Mekit also has a tiny bit about Intergration with QPainter15:48
TheBootrooi like the qpainter class, i don't want it to disappear and us to be forced to do plain OpenGl15:48
Mek(apparently there is a QSGPaintedItem that you can insert in the graph, that will use qpainter internally15:49
TheBootrooi would be a real pain in the ass, i don't develop desktop/mobile apps with same api that game developpers uses...15:49
lcukat the same time, qpainter is awesome and qpainter is awful15:49
lcukit has a nice api15:49
lcukbut is tricky to use it optimally15:49
mgedminthe multitude of Qt-ish APIs I hear mentioned here befuddles me15:51
mgedminor maybe confuzzles15:51
lcukmgedmin, ++15:51
TheBootrooMek: it don't say me what api i will use. i hope we yet have a c++ api, not mandatory to add qml objects with lots of properties ?15:51
lcukmgedmin, you mean Qconfuzzle15:51
Mekoh yes, there will be a c++ api, it will just be rather different from the current qml c++ api afaik15:52
TheBootrooQonfuZZles Mee -->Go15:52
Mekand there is apparently an api similar to QDeclarativeItem, where it will render the item to a QImage, and then include the image as a texture in the scenegraph15:53
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djszapilbt_away: total KO again:
djszapithis time, at 98 %16:48
rm_workGeneralAntilles: hey hey hey ping16:51
djszapiMohammadAG: do you think there is a way I could build kdelibs on ?16:52
rm_workhrmrm i think i may have an idea what is causing the pyRadio thread issues, and being stuck at work is annoying because i can't test my fix :P16:52
djszapiOBS has been incapable for weeks.16:52
fralsdjszapi: does the build work locally?16:53
djszapifrals: your mean ?16:53
rm_worklike in SB?16:53
djszapiWell, that could be another option if I can publish my local build in my repository...16:53
fralsdjszapi: are you able to build the package when using your own machine via osc?16:53
djszapiSB != osc16:54
djszapiand yes, it works in chroot by usin osc16:54
fralsok, just checking :)16:54
djszapilbt_away: Could I publish kdelibs without the OBS building hell ?16:54
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djszapifrals: used 60 GB, OBS uses 6 GB memory :)16:59
djszapislight difference :)16:59
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RST38hAnyone knows of a good example implementing settings page in QtQuick?17:07
djszapiSettings application on N950 ?17:07
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wazdHeya all17:08
mgedmindjszapi, is it open source?17:08
RST38hOk. Anyone with a more useful answer?17:08
Stskeepslo wazd17:09
djszapimgedmin: no idea, but the Ui is a good example. It is really not that hard in QML anyways :)17:09
wazdMy n950's phone UI has collapsed completely :) :( Any sane solutions to bring it back without reflashing? :)17:09
Stskeepsno, just reflash17:09
wazdThought so :)17:09
RST38hreflash indeed17:10
wazdI'm @ the country right now, not the best place to do that :)17:10
fralshow did it "collapse completely"? :)17:11
wazdBut otherwise the device is just awesome. Infinite kudos to all harmattan team :)17:11
wazdIt just disappeared17:11
mgedminso, you get a black screen only?17:11
wazdBlack screen during the phonecall17:11
fralsand reboot didnt fix it?17:12
mgedminI haven't even tried making phonecalls yet17:12
mgedmintoday 3g just disappeared -- well, the entire gsm17:12
mgedminhad to reboot to get it back17:12
fralssounds slightly bad17:12
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wazdI still can make phonecalls (kinda) but it's annoying to reboot the device to hang it :D17:13
mgedmincan't you ask the other party to hang up?17:13
mgedminI assume fn-backspace doesn't work either?17:13
wazdDidn't try it17:14
* RST38h wonders when the next firmware update is coming17:14
wazdImve tried to close shis window via app manager17:15
RST38hthis one is kinda too broken to be used on the day to day basis17:15
wazdBut it opens again17:15
mgedminRST38h, when the N9 is finally released, IIRC17:15
wazdIn a month I guess17:15
mgedminI've heard September mentioned, but this is probably just a rumour17:16
wazdAugust 20th17:16
wazdExact date :)17:16
wazdAt least it's the date of Moscow presentation17:16
fralssome head of portfolio nordic marketing said 23rd september in .se at least17:17
mgedminpresentation doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be on sale from that day on, does it?17:19
wazdI heard that it will be on sale17:20
khertanthere is a place which explain the addition made in harmattan to debian package ?17:21
* mgedmin hopes Very Hard the final firmware will support developer mode17:21
mgedminkhertan, debian/changelog, probably, if I understood your question correctly17:21
Mekafaik it should...17:22
wazdExposing N950 @ Nokia stores really does miracles :D17:22
mgedminor /usr/share/doc/yourpackage/README.Debian -- but that one will be killed by docpurge on install17:22
mgedminstill, in the source package having a debian/README.Debian might be useful for other people who may need to update your package17:22
Tronicwazd: I've gotten black screen on phone app for a few times now but reboot always fixes it. I can also task switch and use other apps normally while calling.17:24
wazdTronic: task switching works fine, black window is shown just instead of call ui17:25
TronicYep, same here.17:26
wazdAny news on browser settings btw? Will they be extended in future? :)17:28
khertanmgedmin, hey thanks but i mean, does there is documentation somewhere about additionnal field ?17:30
wazdCause right now they look a bit sad :)17:30
khertanmgedmin, like the one added for maemo source package :)17:30
mgedminkhertan, what additional field?17:30
khertanmgedmin, this is the question does there is some, like Bugtracker17:30
khertanor things like that17:30
mgedminuh, you want to know what additional debian/control fields are used in harmattan?17:31
mgedminif yes, look for your answer here:
mgedminhello horizontal scrollbar in my nice irc logs *sigh*insaneurls*mutter*17:32
khertanthx mgedmin17:34
crevetorhi khertan17:34
khertanhum will be time to update sdist_maemo :)17:34
DocScrutinizermgedmin: wait til nokia adds [] to URLs and you want to reference it in wiki17:34
khertanhi crevetor17:35
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# rm -rf landfill/ :-S17:40
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DocScrutinizerthis friggin flasheater tool could maybe remove the crap on ^C17:41
DocScrutinizeror better yet: act sensible to --help ;-P17:48
slaineAnyone setup a Harmattan dev env on OS X ?17:49
slainetrying to decided if I do it on the Mac or on my netbook17:49
DocScrutinizernetbook? o.O17:50
DocScrutinizerthose SDKs weren't exactly humbe so for17:50
slaineDocScrutinizer: I've Fedora 15 and MeeGo 1.2 on my IdeaPad, 2GB RAM, OCZ SSD17:51
slaineOnly put off is the screen res17:51
DocScrutinizerhmm, to start with17:51
slaineMac has a good screen and better keyboard, just not sure how sane it would be as a Harmattan dev host17:51
slaineI was contemplating VirtualBox install of linux on the Mac too17:52
mgedminQt Creator for Mac OS X exists17:52
mgedminit'll be interesting to find out if it supports Harmattan as well as Linux/Windows versions17:53
slaineYeah, I know, I have it here. But Qt Creator isn't the whole story17:53
mgedminscratchbox, I believe, runs only under Linux17:53
mgedminvirtualbox should work17:53
fiferboyDoes qemu work in Mac?17:58
mgedminfiferboy! my new best friend ever! how about those fbreader .deb building instructions you promised me? ;)17:59
fiferboymgedmin: I'll put the tarball somewhere and send you a link17:59
rm_workany python wizards around?17:59
fiferboyI just do a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot on them, but the debian directory and target files are a bit hacked up :)17:59
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rm_workGeneralAntilles: ping18:00
mgedminfiferboy, where did you find the original _source_ debs?18:00
fiferboymgedmin: I just downloaded them from fbreader.org18:01
fiferboymgedmin: FBReader is a bit weird, as the tarball has a whole mess of build targets right in it, and strange scripted ways to build them18:02
fiferboymgedmin: To build a regular Maemo5 binary you execute the script from *OUTSIDE* scratchbox and it builds it in scratchbox o_O18:02
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fiferboymgedmin: So what I did was hack up the scripts for building a _desktop_ debian package and executed it _within_ scratchbox18:03
wazd1m usd question. Does n950 have compass? :)18:04
mgedminwazd, yes, it has a magnetometer18:04
fiferboymgedmin: Once I get my devel machine turned on I'll send you the whole mess :)18:04
wazdPhew :)18:04
harbaumwazd: yes i has and it's working nicely via qtmobility18:04
wazdHarbaum: what a relief, cause I was nervous seeing that maps and drive don't use it :)18:05
harbaumwazd: My geocaching app is able to use it. and it needs less calibration than the one in my symbian c718:06
mgedmindrive not using the compass was a bit of a wtf for me too18:06
wazdHarbaum: OSM2Go? :)18:06
mgedminooh, please please please18:06
harbaumwazd: geocaching, not mapping18:07
wazdHarbaum: ah :)18:07
* mgedmin currently misses: vim, FuelLog, PasswordSafe, Conboy18:07
mgedminoh, and something for weather forecasts18:07
wazdOmweather :P18:07
harbaumosm2go had few users only and with the n9 being even more a niche product i don't think a port pf osm2go makes sense18:07
mgedminporting anything to harmattan doesn't make sense18:08
mgedminunless we port it for ourselves18:08
* mgedmin is not what you would call an "optimist"18:08
harbaumnah, porting stuff i frequently use myself does make sense18:08
wazdI need weather anyway :)18:08
harbaumegoist developers ...18:09
mgedminI would use osm2go more often if it let me to just start editing18:09
mgedminwithout having to go through complicated multi-page wizards to create "projects"18:09
fiferboymgedmin: It isn't a make clean'ed build, but if you clean it you should be able to diff against the orig source and see my changes18:09
mgedminfiferboy, thanks!18:09
mgedmin(in advance)18:09
fiferboymgedmin: I can link you to the original source if you need it18:09
harbaummgedmin: then you'd need to have a clever idea how to deal with the multi-gigabyte database osm has in the background18:10
mgedminI've a git checkout18:10
mgedminwhich means diffing is going to be noisy18:10
mgedminyes, a link to the exact version you downloaded would be helpful18:10
fiferboymgedmin: Ok, the version this one uses is 0.12.1018:10
mgedminharbaum, steal the approach potlatch uses18:10
harbaummgedmin: of course "instant editing" would have been great ....18:10
harbaumpotlatch imho has a direct connection to the database18:11
mgedminor just a big button "edit 1 square km centered around my current GPS position"18:11
mgedmingood point about the unfair advantages potlatch has18:11
harbaummgedmin: yepp, something like that was supposed to happen. but the effort was too big and there were few users only18:11
fiferboymgedmin: Let me know if you manage to fix things up! :)18:11
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mgedminfiferboy, I still need the tarball with your changes ;)18:12
mgedminso far I managed to build fbreader (desktop) in scratchbox, but haven't figured out how to build .debs18:12
fiferboymgedmin: In my fbreader_hacked_harmattan (linked before) run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" in scratchbox18:14
mgedminoh, I missed one link then18:14
fiferboy11:08 < fiferboy> mgedmin:
mgedminin the middle of the osm2go side discussion18:15
SpeedEvilosm2go is awesome18:16
mgedminyes it is18:16
SpeedEvilpotlatch has a sligfhtly different interface - not more direct18:16
mgedminosm2go is ideal for walking around and assigning building numbers to buildings18:16
mgedminthat you've drawn before with potlatch from an aerial photo18:16
SpeedEvilYou can compress XML _very_ well18:16
SpeedEvilLook atound the osm wiki for binary format18:17
SpeedEvilAlso - osm2go - developer said 'not enough user response - moved on' - on the mailinng list a while back18:18
wazdI have that crazy idea bout widgets. What if you'll be able to tap the screen with three fingers, current app will fade to back and widgets will appear? :P18:19
wazdAm I insane?18:20
crevetorwazd: that'd be neat18:20
DocScrutinizera better exploitation of MT has been suggested several times18:20
crevetoror something like the swipe gesture but with 2 fingers18:21
wazdIt works just as one18:21
crevetorActually no that would be hard to do with one hand18:21
DocScrutinizeractually it seems to me harmattan could also run on single-touch devices, which is kinda errr. :-S18:21
crevetorMaybe replace the useless swipe from bottom (quick launch) with that feature18:21
lcukwazd which widgets page?18:22
lcuk(which would seemingly be more required than how to vulcan grip it18:22
wazdLcuk: that doesn't exist yet :D18:22
wazdCrevetor: swipe is closed :(18:23
lcukswipe isn't rocket science :P18:23
khertanis there a way to use an obs home project as a repository ?18:23
lcukthe n900 has basics of it18:23
lcukdesktop swiping18:23
DocScrutinizerI mean if they don't need mt, then pretty please build a device with a decent r-ts for me :-D18:23
DocScrutinizerdamn, N950 with r-ts, that'd be awesome18:25
DocScrutinizerbtw: you noticed N950 has no more lanjard/keyring fixture hole?18:26
mgedminam I the only one who prefers the capacitative touchscreen?18:26
DocScrutinizerthe poor poor Japanese18:26
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rm_workmgedmin: possibly >_>18:27
rm_worki'm hating it18:27
rm_workwant my good resistive back <_<18:27
DocScrutinizermgedmin: sorry, this c-ts is crap in my book. Doesn't react to fingernails (and other non sausage like objects), way too imprecise, even doesn't notice finger touches when you don't 'earth' the device case with another finger or hand18:28
rm_workmy problem is my finger can be like 1/4" away from the screen and it clicks things anyway18:29
lcukDocScrutinizer, do you like *anything* about this device?18:29
rm_worki'm constantly having to close apps i ran by mistake18:29
rm_workor rather, that IT ran without me choosing them18:29
lcukrm_work, "these aren't the buttons you are looking for"18:29
DocScrutinizeryes, it's ultimately shiny, fast, sufficient ram18:29
DocScrutinizersufficently good screen18:30
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DocScrutinizernifty though weak slider mech18:30
DocScrutinizer4 row kbd (though jury is still out on the quality)18:30
rm_workyeah i wish they'd just slimmed down the n900 and added ram and increased clockspeed (which is what they did MOSTLY, but they could have left it at that without changing the LCD and flash memory size)18:31
DocScrutinizerlcuk: how could you get wrong my statement >>damn, N950 with r-ts, that'd be awesome<< ?18:31
rm_workor changing the keyboard :/18:31
lcukDocScrutinizer, i know18:32
lcukthat device already exists though :P n90018:32
rm_workkhertan: yes?18:32
khertanrm_work,  ?18:32
khertanah thx18:32
rm_worksee examples from there18:32
rm_workif you add it to the wiki, it'll even show up on PackRat :)18:32
khertanlol ... there is my repository in example18:32
khertanouch ... strange sourcelist on harmattan18:34
rm_workit changed a lot :/18:35
alteregoAnyone managed to scratch their screen yet?18:35
leinirNope... lots of grease (duuh), but no scratches :)18:35
alteregoYeah, I keep having to polish it :D18:36
khertanno scratch yet18:36
alteregoKeep the screen nice and shiny.18:36
khertanit s a bit hard to found a screen protector for a device which didn't exist :)18:36
lcuki most smears seem to come not on the screen but on the camera18:36
alteregoIf I wash my hands every ten minutes then no grease ..18:36
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khertanRAHRAHRarhahrah !!! No setuptools !18:37
khertanbloodyhell !!!!18:37
macmaNso anyone seen aegis-loader puking with "error parsing /etc/passwd" when trying to deploy from qt creator?18:38
macmaNthe deploy process just leaves some dpkg thing hanging on the device then18:39
mgedmindid you edit your /etc/passwd?18:39
macmaNno i havent afaik18:39
macmaNhavent installed anything either that has afaik18:39
macmaNif i just ssh in and do dpkg -i manually, then ctrl+c when aegis-loader hangs, then install goes on and finishes successfully18:39
macmaNbut i cant ctrl+c from qt creator18:39
macmaNyey X-Fade gave me an OBS account18:40
macmaNmaybe i can wgetpaste now18:40
macmaNon n95018:40
macmaNso i can properly pastebin my /etc/passwd18:40
macmaNbuild wgetpaste*18:42
khertanwhouhou harmattan c-obs build log is full of :" No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment"18:49
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kimjukhertan, just ignore those lines18:50
khertana bit difficult :)18:51
khertani need to look between them what's my package error :)18:51
kimjuit is a bit noisy, yes.. :)18:51
kimjudownload raw, grep -v AEGIS ?18:51
khertanit s a solution :)18:53
mgedminn950 claims it's connected to my wifi18:59
mgedminmy wifi router claims there's active no dhcp lease for my n950's mac18:59
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DocScrutinizerweird, I often see this with one of my N90019:00
DocScrutinizernot for N950 though19:00
mgedminoh, because it's a static lease so it doesn't end up in /tmp/dhcpd.leases19:00
mgedminthe n950 became pingable the instance I launched Web on it19:01
khertanrm_work, hum all my package can't be installed, i didn't get error19:01
khertanany idea ?19:01
mgedminand now my router can ping it, but my laptop can't19:01
khertanLOL apt-get update have a nice bug19:01
khertanLOL apt-get have a nice bug19:02
rcgwell, whoever said that there are performance issues wrt the harmattan builder definately told the truth19:02
khertanwhen it ask you if you want to install unauthentified package in french the answer is oui / Non19:02
fluxmgedmin, on n900 I've seen the same with certain wlan ap's and the default power saving19:02
khertanbut accepted answer is Yes / No19:02
DocScrutinizeris it just my weird neighbours or are you also constantly seeing an open hidden-SSID WLAN?19:02
khertaneverything other than y will fallback to no19:03
mgedminDocScrutinizer, I assumed you always had that option in the UI19:03
fluxkhertan, are you trying to do something stupid?-)19:03
khertanflux, nope just install a package from my obs repository19:03
DocScrutinizermgedmin: ooh, so it's a config shortcut, not a scan result?19:04
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DocScrutinizerhow weird is THAT?19:04
mgedminI assume otherwise there'd be no way to connect to a hidden wlan, maybe... ?19:05
DocScrutinizerumm, no 'new', k19:06
DocScrutinizerpuzzling concept19:06
DocScrutinizerweird wording19:06
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rcgwell, apparently your phone nowadays speaks with you and vice versa19:07
DocScrutinizererr, is there WLAN mentioned? I've seen that page19:07
rcgjust saw you wondering about wording and such.. and i just stumbled across this today19:08
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DocScrutinizerrcg: yeah, it's kinda apple'ish - I think such guidelines are much needed19:09
rcgnext time scotty travels back in time he _can_ talk to his smartphone: "smartphone:..."19:09
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DocScrutinizerplacing a "Hidden WLAN" with allegedly full signal strength into the list of scan results is puzzling like hell though19:09
rcglol yeah indeed19:09
alteregoI always think it sees something with that being there.19:10
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DocScrutinizeraccording to their own guidelines this must read "click for new WLAN"19:11
rcgDocScrutinizer: well, some ui guidlines are not that bad imho19:12
rcgheh probably19:12
DocScrutinizeragree, what I said above19:12
DocScrutinizerapple knows one thing: writing GUI styleguides19:13
DocScrutinizerit's foundation of their success19:13
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rcgbesides keeping the api consistent or at least not changing the UI framework etc. with each new phone.. but that's probably a different story19:14
DocScrutinizerbasically ALL other GUIs failed on publishing good styleguides19:15
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DocScrutinizerrcg: nah, that's exactly the same story19:15
SpeedEvils/publishing/publishing and enforcing/19:15
fiferboyalterego: I've scratched my screen :(19:16
alteregoOh no :(19:16
alteregoHow'd you manage that?19:16
* Stskeeps managed to as well19:16
DocScrutinizerthe magical gorilla glass?19:16
Stskeepsthough not badly19:16
fiferboyalterego: Pocket carrying19:16
Stskeepsi don't think the developer device has gorilla glass :)19:16
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I'm not convinced it is gorrilla glass :P19:16
fiferboyIt is only noticable on an angle and mostly just with the screen off19:16
alteregoIt feels like plastic to me.19:16
fralsdoes the n950 have gorilla glass really?19:16
DocScrutinizerNFC what's gorilla glass19:16
fiferboyI would say it isn't gorilla glass, since my phone with gorilla glass can take MUCH more punishment easily19:17
mgedminglass polished by hand by trained gorillas19:17
alteregofiferboy: it's definitely plastic imo19:17
fiferboyalterego: Yeah, no I need to find a screen protector19:17
alteregoIt doesn't conduct heat like glass, and it doesn't sound like glass when tapped.19:17
infobotfiferboy meant: alterego: Yeah, now I need to find a screen protector19:17
DocScrutinizersure it's no molten silicate19:17
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rcgDocScrutinizer: hehe, or even that.. gui wise this qml stuff actually "feels" quite good for now19:18
alteregofiferboy: zehjotkah had a line on those.19:18
fiferboyFor now I am carrying it in the (slightly oversized) sleeve from my N810 :)19:18
rm_workyeah i gave up with my n900 and just started putting it straight in my pocket19:19
rm_workand it was fine for over a year19:19
rm_workso i'm not worried :/19:19
fiferboyrm_work: My N900 has been fine in my pocket as well19:19
khertanobs is pretty slow19:19
alteregoWell, I don't keep anything in the same pocket as my phone.19:19
rcgkhertan: it is19:19
rm_worknot like i'm putting it in the same pocket as my keys :P19:19
DocScrutinizerI can't find cheap nice "italian style" holsters anymore19:19
alteregoSo hopefully it wont get scratched up.19:19
fiferboyalterego: I don't either, which is why I was surprised to see a scratch19:20
alteregoOh :/19:20
DocScrutinizermade in China, 5€, last 6 months19:20
DocScrutinizernow no more are available19:20
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DocScrutinizerfiferboy: jeans?19:21
TronicI've kept N950 in my pocket for a couple of weeks and there are zero scratches so far.19:21
mgedminmy n900 is not scratched, exactly, but it looks as if I dropped a bit of acid on the screen19:21
TronicI suppose it is gorilla glass.19:21
khertan <<< what does it s mean ?19:21
mgedminthere's an irregularly-shaped small area that's indented or something19:21
mgedminbit unpleasant19:21
SpeedEvilMy n900 screen is not scratched (now)19:22
TronicN900 has pretty soft plastic, so it scratches almost instantly.19:22
SpeedEvilI forgot about it an put some seccateurs in the wrong pocket19:22
mgedmin"/.build/build: line 1856: hostname: command not found" <-- in khertan's build log19:22
SpeedEviland bent up and down a couple of hundred times19:22
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I guess you are using 3 protectors stacked up one on the other19:22
SpeedEvilYou could sorta-see-through the protector19:22
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SpeedEvilI'd be worried about a n9.19:23
SpeedEvilEven if it is glass.19:23
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DocScrutinizer~dict seccateurs19:23
infobotcould not find definition for seccateurs19:23
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: plant cutters19:23
mgedminbut that's not the error19:23
mgedminkhertan, your debian/changelog is malformed19:23
mgedminplease pastebin, we'll be able to offer more specific info19:23
TronicBtw, another thing I noticed about the N950 vs. N900 is the screen polarization. Apparently the glass of N950 loses polarization as the picture can be seen with polaroid glasses in any orientation.19:24
TronicSome protective films for N900 also do that.19:24
DocScrutinizerTronic: and how does that differ to N900?19:24
TronicDocScrutinizer: N900 screen is polarized so you cannot see it in all orientations.19:25
DocScrutinizerTronic: actually I found this amazing property on a number of mobile LCD19:25
TronicCannot remember which orientation works, without a film.19:25
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DocScrutinizerTronic: I never had any issues except brightness, when wearing my polaroid glasses19:25
DocScrutinizer(the ones you all know and love me wearing ;-D )19:26
DocScrutinizeryou get slight rainbow effects, but no clear linear polarization19:27
DocScrutinizerno polarizing on N90019:27
macmaNhow could i get a launcher that launches wifi with single button19:28
macmaNgetting really annoying launching wifi with 5 presses all the time19:28
fiferboyDocScrutinizer: Yeah :/19:28
DocScrutinizerfiferboy: ??19:28
fiferboyDocScrutinizer: Jeans19:29
khertanmgedmin, thx19:29
DocScrutinizerjeans have rivets19:29
fiferboyDocScrutinizer: Yeah, I am usually pretty careful about that but...19:29
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macmaNcan anyone md5sum /etc/passwd for me on n950?19:29
mgedminkhertan, first thing: underscores (_) are not allowed in package names19:30
macmaNacf10ac55a8c0d5873ec3bb50ac36efc  /etc/passwd19:30
DocScrutinizerwon't help I guess, I think I changed it19:30
khertanmgedmin, oh ... didn't know19:30
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# md5sum /etc/passwd19:30
khertanor didn't remember19:30
DocScrutinizer23a11ba2fd7f16b39ddbb60568ae614c  /etc/passwd19:30
mgedminkhertan, IIRC you can use only lowercase letters, digits and -19:30
mgedmin_ is used to separate the package name from the version number in the .deb filename19:30
alteregoOkay, I do have a really tiny scratch on the screen. But it's almost impossible to see it :D19:30
alteregoEven tilted under light.19:31
khertani know that but i think i'm too tired :)19:31
khertanand description is malformed19:31
TronicDocScrutinizer: Hmm, I just teared off the sheet I had on mine and you are right, it doesn't go dark, only gets some minor discolorization.19:32
macmaNMohammadAG: okay, usermod -U user not the best idea :) dpkg will fail installing packages after that. there has to be something else to also make modified /etc/passwd acceptable to aegis19:38
GeneralAntillesrm_work, pong?19:41
GeneralAntillesRST38h, how's the device so far?19:42
mgedminmacmaN, I'm pretty sure my /etc/passwd is modified19:43
mgedminfor one, I've changed the root password19:43
mgedminfor another, I strongly suspect the SDK Connect application changed the 'developer' user password to a random one19:43
mgedminI can dpkg install things just fine, or deploy apps from Qt Creator19:43
mgedminso what did you usermod with your user account?19:43
macmaNmgedmin: okay but go ahead, do usermod -U user19:43
mgedminno thanks :)19:44
mgedminI like it working19:44
macmaNit wont break anything seriously, you can usermod -L user back19:44
mgedminwhat does -U do? unlock the account?19:44
macmaNi just did19:44
macmaNyoull be able to ssh user@n95019:44
mgedminI _am_ able to ssh user@n95019:44
mgedminmy /etc/passwd has 'user::...'19:44
mgedminI think I used passwd -u instead of usermod19:45
macmaNmaybe i need to also have a password set then19:45
mgedminI don't have it!19:45
mgedminanyway, Qt Creator uses ssh into the 'developer' account19:45
macmaNoh, ok, passwd -u also unlocks, youre right19:45
macmaNare you saying you can ssh user@n950 with pki?19:46
mgedminpractically the first thing I did to my n950 was set up authorized_keys19:46
macmaNok i did19:46
macmaN# passwd -u user19:46
macmaNPassword changed.19:46
macmaNeven though it asked no password19:46
macmaNlets see if dpkg pukes now19:47
macmaNok yes i can ssh in19:47
macmaNoh wow19:48
macmaNwhatever passwd -u is doing, it seems to be doing it better than usermod :>19:48
macmaNaegis-loader: Failed loading policy for 'nelisquare::/opt/Nelisquare/bin/Nelisquare'19:48
mgedmindid you save a copy?19:48
macmaNof what19:48
mgedmindid passwd leave a backup /etc/passwd-19:48
DocScrutinizermmpf, could somebody shortly summarize the different -u -U -L commands and what exactly they do to the relevant line in passwd?19:49
macmaNmgedmin: i have broken one in pastebin19:49
mgedminI'm curious about the diff of the broken /etc/passwd and the working /etc/passwd19:49
mgedminDocScrutinizer, when I run man passwd on my ubuntu box, there's no -U/-L, just -u19:49
DocScrutinizermgedmin: same here19:49
mgedminusermod is the one with -U/-L, I think19:50
mgedminI've never used usermod...19:50
DocScrutinizermgedmin: sure, as -U -L seems usermod param19:50
macmaNyep, they are19:50
DocScrutinizernevertheless all operate/modify that one line in etc/passwd, no? (on shadow-less systems)19:50
macmaNwhats the point?19:50
macmaNright, i dont get what theyre doing different either19:51
macmaNand i dont think you can strace anything right?19:51
mgedminactually you can19:51
DocScrutinizerso compare the "user" record for all three19:51
macmaNor can you with some aegis-please-let-me-do-it --relaxed-sphinxter19:51
mgedminyou may need to run 'develsh' before you're allowed to19:51
mgedminbut strace is even preinstalled19:51
macmaNyes it is, just that ive always gotten permission denied19:51
DocScrutinizerwhy strace?19:52
macmaNhavent tried with develsh19:52
macmaNyou could see what files they touch?19:52
DocScrutinizerdo you think passwd(1) also talks to aegis?19:52
mgedminit's possible, maybe?19:52
mgedminI wish I could run ldd or strings/grep19:52
mgedminI can't ping my n950 again :(19:52
DocScrutinizerI'd first compare the user-account line in etc/passwd after the different modifications by -u -U -L19:53
macmaNaha! develsh does enable strace to work!19:53
mgedminyeah, we have the pastebin of the broken /etc/passwd19:53
mgedminwhat's different in the working one?19:53 :>19:53
mgedminok, I'll diff with mine19:54
mgedminonly root and developer lines differ19:54
mgedmin(different hashed passwords, obviously)19:54
DocScrutinizerroot?? o.O19:54
mgedminI changed the root pwd19:54
DocScrutinizermeh, different salt19:54
mgedminbecause walking around with openssh running and allowing root logins with a HARDCODED WELL-KNOWN PASSWORD sounded like a bad idea to me19:55
macmaNmgedmin: good point :>19:55
DocScrutinizerthis has been discussed like 324 times19:56
macmaNmgedmin: you could restrict sshd logins by ip though19:56
DocScrutinizerthey are19:56
macmaNright, i also thought i saw it in sshd_config19:56
mgedminwhy?  just set a different password19:56
macmaNill take my two-factor any day19:56
DocScrutinizerI'm bored19:56
rcgyay.. well the way the gradient in the legend of is implemented is quite "creative"19:56
DocScrutinizerobviously macmaN can't tell what's the one differing char when he runs passwd -u user19:57
macmaNDocScrutinizer: it seems to me that /etc/passwd will be changed exactly the same19:58
macmaN! is removed19:58
macmaNbut passwd maybe touches some other magic button too19:58
DocScrutinizerI'm temped to edit etc/passwd by nano and see what happens19:59
mgedminldd $(which passwd) -> nothing suspicious19:59
mgedmingrep -c aegis /usr/bin/passwd -> 020:00
DocScrutinizeraegis runs as root afaik20:00
DocScrutinizerMEH, I swore I'll ignore aegis whenever I run into it. So o/20:01
mgedminaegis is a kernel module, I think20:01
lynxisyes mgedmin you are right20:10
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alteregodagnamit, is there no way to paste into harmattan terminal :(20:31
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alteregocan't copy or paste :(20:31
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DocScrutinizernope :-(((20:42
DocScrutinizerpretty much renders the whole system useless20:42
divanCan someone check whether mail message delete works for gmail? It doesn't work for me. Messages are disappeared from the Mail app, but when I check them in browser - thay still in inbox.20:43
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khertanDoes there is problem currently with harmattan target and obs ?20:48
khertanrpc timeout20:48
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fralsdivan: i think it takes a few min for it to appear "deleted" in gmail, iirc20:52
khertanhum pushing a debian source package to cobs give error ..20:53
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divanfrade_, I've checked mail in browser after 20 minutes20:54
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qgil_hi, I just got a fresh Qt Creator using the online installer and adding the Harmattan target. I create a Qt Quick project,  run the default template in the Simulator and I get this error message:20:54
qgil_qrc:/qml/main.qml:1:1: module "QtQuick" version 1.1 is not installed20:54
qgil_good beginning, now where am I supposed to get Qt Quick 1.1?20:54
khertanqgil_, harmattan meego 1.2 qemu20:54
khertanqgil_, or on device20:55
Stskeepsthat smells of qt 4.7.4 not being installed?20:55
khertan4.7.3 ?20:55
khertan4.7.4 isn't available yet isn't it ?20:55
Stskeepsi thought .4 was the one with qtquick1.1 :)20:55
khertanor you can try 4.8 experimental :)20:55
Stskeepsbut yeah20:55
* Stskeeps is already at qt5, so bit confused ;)20:55
qgil_qemu will complain because of platsec and I just want to work on UI, this is why I thought that Simulatr would suffice20:55
khertanqemu complain also of platsec here :)20:56
qgil_I just want to use the Components20:56
khertanbut as qt component for harmattan isn't available for desktop yet20:56
khertanqemu or directly on n95020:56
qgil_ok, then perhaps connecting the device is the best20:56
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khertanyep ... specially because  qemu is pretty slow20:57
Elleothere's the scratchbox environment too20:57
Elleothat has x86 compiled harmattan components20:57
khertanElleo, yeah but not well integrated to qtcreator :) )20:57
Elleothere are instructions for getting it vaguely integrated with qtcreator (so you can at least build/run based on qt creator buttons)20:57
lcukqgil_, which host OS are you using?20:58
khertanElleo, did you know any plugin to integrate python also ? :)20:58
qgil_lcuk: ubuntu20:58
khertanah so component is available in a ppa20:59
Elleowell the instructions there just setup a few wrappers for qtcreator to call20:59
Elleopresumably you could do the same with python20:59
Elleoyeah, or just grab the packages and install them outside of scratchbox20:59
tommaElleo, have you got scratchbox environment working with Xephyr?20:59
Elleotomma: yep20:59
lcukqgil_, however you get this cured, please file an official bug about the issue20:59
khertantomma, yep21:00
tommafor some reason my Xephyr wont draw anything in QDeclarativeView21:00
lcukwithout it the devs won't know to cure your workflow21:00
Elleotomma: <-- is a quick video of some stuff working under Xephyr for me21:00
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Elleobut I pretty much just followed the instructions in the platform guide without any problems21:00
khertanlcuk, qgil_ : also contain qt component and last experimental qt release for ubuntu21:01
tommaElleo, yeah that seems to be working... all i got was some yellow background with black stripes21:02
tommamaybe i need to retest that =)21:02
Elleocan you get Xephyr working normally?21:02
Elleoi.e. if you just run something in your host OS, like: DISPLAY:2 xterm21:02
ElleoDISPLAY=:2 xterm21:03
tommayeah it worked but when i ran my application with qml21:03
tommait didn't draw it right21:03
Elleoand did you run "meego-sb-session start" in scratchbox prior to launching your application?21:03
Elleoand launched your application with "meego-run ./yourapp"?21:04
Elleoif you did all that and it still didn't work then I have no clue what's wrong ;)21:04
khertan ^ what did you think of the file selection ^21:10
lcukkhertan, more interested to see how actual editing works21:11
lcukis there a packaged .deb somewhere?21:11
TronicIs there any G+ app for N950 yet, or is G+ coming for N9?21:11
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harbaumkhertan: nice file selector! Guess what i am doing at this very moment: Writing a file selector in qt components  :-)21:19
lcukharbaum, lol21:19
lcukso if everybody has their own file select it is not perfect situation21:20
harbaumthat's how qml is meant to work in general21:20
qgil_Tronic: since the G+ APIs are not public afak you should ask this question to Google21:21
harbaumbut mine is based on the dialog element unlike khertan's which is based in a page21:21
khertanit ll be funny when every application will have his own things21:23
lcukharbaum, I know more than most about each developer is an island, better to combine sper powers to produce awesome dialogs in system21:23
tommaand i have whole application for opening, copying and moving files21:23
khertanno plateform constant ui21:23
khertanhuge mistake21:23
khertanlcuk, no deb yet21:23
khertani'm currently fighting with c obs to build python-setuptools21:24
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khertanthen i ll be able to build python-sdist-maemo21:24
lcukkhertan, if you get one made give me a shout, it looks interesting and would like to try it on my meego ideapad21:24
tommawell... someone makes good filedialog and then it could be pushed to components?21:24
khertanthen a preview package21:24
khertantomma, i make one base on page21:24
lcuktomma, writing a file select dialog is rite of passage :P21:24
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lcukit is the new media player/ hello world :P21:24
DocScrutinizerharbaum: khertan: isn't it absolutely great that there's no filepicker dialog coming by default? :-S21:25
harbaumi actually think they don't want you to pick files at all. i was also thinking about just listing the files from a fixed directory and force the user to place his files there21:27
Mekyeah, I think the idea is that with tracker you don't need a file dialog...21:27
lcukmek, you still need a file picker21:28
DocScrutinizerI guess Nokia's plan to exterminate the concept of filesystem won't pan out in the long term. Apple tried it and failed. Seems Nokia want to fail on its own21:28
harbaumkeep the UX simple also means not to bother noobs with things like "/home/user/MyDocs/.images/..."21:28
tommaatleast it is not .images anymore...21:28
khertanDocScrutinizer, it s great than every app will have different look, button, ux, none persistant look and feel21:28
lcukbut but but, they will all swipe!21:29
harbaumMek: How do i tell tracker to collect zip'ed geocaching gpx files?21:29
MekI don't know exactly how tracker works, but afair you can write all kinds of plugins for it to extract whatever data you like from whatever file format...21:29
khertanlcuk, yeah... swipe... while the concept is great, swipe instead of switch next music in music player is less :)21:29
khertanMek, how i tell tracker to save my source code file in the right place to be compiled ?21:30
khertanMek, any gcc plugin to use tracker to automatically found misplaced files in sources folder ?21:30
Mekwell okay, a source code editor is a different case of course; but I don't think that is the primary use case of a phone anyway21:31
lcuk? mek21:31
lcukwhy different21:31
khertanMek, it is !21:31
lcukit is user generated content21:31
lcukcontent creation and all that21:31
lcuksometimes people do more than use twitter on mobile devices21:31
harbaumMek: Yeah, great, let's focus on "primary phone use cases" ...21:31
harbaumtwitter isn't a "primary phone use case"21:32
lcukreplace source code with SMS messages21:32
lcukreplace gpx files with MMS messages21:32
Mekwell, for most content creating cases it doesn't matter where your content is created as long as you can find the content back easily...21:32
Mekif you want to call a compiler, the editor will know where the file is21:32
harbaumprimary phone use case is to do phone calls. If that's what Mek wants, then he might indeed have a use for my Siemens S5521:32
lcuki have graffiti wall for this21:32
lcukbut sometimes file picking must occur!"21:32
DocScrutinizerharbaum: yes indeed, so you make noobs bother with /home/user/MyDocs/.images/... AND terminal AND cndline, as literally NO apple iPhone user or any other IT user managed to live in a consistent world without any pathnames, since MSDOS abolished the idea of all files sitting in \21:33
Mekyes, but file picking does not necesary require exposing a directory structure. I'm not saying that it is perfectly implemented, but some tagging/tracker/whatever system can be quite adequate imho21:33
* lcuk just made a text file picker21:34
harbaumNokia may want meego to be for noobs, but we don't have to agree with them21:34
lcukwith percentage read indicator on each book21:34
RST38hNOkia does not want meego, it wants wp721:34
lcukharbaum, they want meego for simplicity21:34
lcukand it on the whole works21:34
khertanlcuk, does it s works for manga ? reading from end ? :)21:34
harbaumi am still writing a file browser ...21:35
lcukkhertan, .txt files only21:35
lcuki prefer simplicity21:35
lcukand all the random formats for books are just text files anyway21:35
khertanharbaum, look at mine :
lcukso concentrated on that21:35
khertanbranch qml21:35
harbaumkhertan: Thanks, will take a very close look at it. My previous file picker (based on plain qml) was pretty close to the one the qmlviwer includes21:39
khertanharbaum, mine is here :
MohammadAGkhertan, so you finally got along with qml?21:40
khertanMohammadAG, héhé :)21:40
khertanMohammadAG, no choice21:40
DocScrutinizertopic pathless UI: I lauged my ass off when I found that backup tool in fremantle couldn't destinguish between files of same name on eMMC and on uSD21:41
DocScrutinizerso HOW are you going to tackle that issue with tracker?21:41
DocScrutinizerhonestly the isea is so incredibly silly21:41
khertanMohammadAG, this doesn't mean i like qml ... i found the concept painfull for devel21:42
harbaumkhertan: You are using qtquick 1.1 ... i don't have that under ubuntu, nor under symbian, so it's a nono for me21:42
khertanharbaum, under ubuntu there is ppa :)21:43
harbaumAlso, i'd replace with com.meego :-)21:43
harbaumI am using the ppa21:43
khertanbut yes ... i use qt harmattan component21:44
khertanso qtquick 1.121:44
khertanthis is the magic of qtquick ... use a multi plateform framework ... to use specific qml component which are tied to a platform/vendor/version21:44
khertanand loose the multi platform part of qt21:45
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DocScrutinizertopic pathless: and requiring user to use special tagging tools to mark all photos of one directory with "from Olympus, Summer holiday 09" to keep them together in tracker despite the fact he simply moved the perfectly sorted directory with all the photos to the device via mass storage... c'MON *that's* noob-proven and simple then? haha21:46
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MohammadAGsigh, checked the DDP page, N950 is still a new order21:52
antman8969where are you?21:53
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, seriously?21:53
GeneralAntillesI'd say it's time to email Nokia.21:53
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, yes21:53
MohammadAGalready emailed them last thursday21:53
MohammadAGor wednesday21:53
antman8969well just to be fair21:54
antman8969theres still over half that hanv't gotten the device yet21:54
MohammadAGgot the "we'll ship ASAP" answer21:54
antman8969or at least, that didnt' update their wiki...21:54
MohammadAGantman8969, I'm sure over 100 if not 200 got their devices21:54
antman8969what have you been doing in the meantime mohammadag21:54
MohammadAGkilling people with guitar amplifiers21:54
antman8969lol productive21:55
antman8969hope you didn't kill any dhl guys...21:55
MohammadAGapparently, Israeli security calls them explosives21:55
MohammadAGso might as well do something explosive-y with em21:55
antman8969do they...really?21:55
MohammadAGYes, I was delayed an hour the other day cause they had it in an isolated room with a bot21:56
DocScrutinizerwell, send a picture to the amp manufactuer, they'll *love* it21:56
MohammadAGthe kind the police uses for bombs21:56
ElleomacmaN: finally managed to get OpenVPN all built, it's in my repository21:56
antman8969do you heave a beard?21:56
MohammadAGand the red tape with hebrew text on it21:56
antman8969well then I'm lost21:56
MohammadAGI have an amp that says "Input", "Volume", "Reverb", "Delay", "Gain"21:57
harbaumkhertan: Had to watch your video to verify that this "pathbox" also behaves that way in your own app ....21:57
MohammadAGwhich can easily be mistaken for a bomb21:57
ElleomacmaN: (including the openvpn and openssl blacklists)21:57
MohammadAGcause bombs have a volume21:57
antman8969you know the best bombs use distortion....21:57
MohammadAGgood thing they didn't know then21:58
MohammadAGalso last I checked, bombs don't have 5" jacks21:58
MohammadAGerr, 5mm21:58
antman8969lol duh, or else you'd have to use a converter21:58
MohammadAG5+mm, happy DocScrutinizer? :P21:59
MohammadAGseriously though21:59
MohammadAGwhy don't guitars use 3.5mm21:59
MohammadAGbesides durability21:59
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DocScrutinizeryou wouldn't ask this if you were a *real* live performing musician, drinking, taking drugs, all that... :-)22:01
DocScrutinizerI've witnessed musicians too drunk to plug in even the 6.3mm plug to their guitar right away22:02
DocScrutinizerimagine a punk or a heavy metal musician fumbling with a 3.5mm jack :-P22:04
DocScrutinizeractually some cables are too thick to fit into *any* 3.5mm jack22:05
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DocScrutinizerplus 3.5mm are probably not strong enough to avoid bending and breaking even if the plug was made of massive 1st grade steel22:07
DocScrutinizeractually not even 6.3mm always is22:08
RST38hAre you suggesting 10mm military-grade headphone jacks on all phones?22:08
DocScrutinizersee XLR jacks - there's a reason for this form factor22:08
MohammadAGwell, can't say your wrong, my 7th pair of headphones broke22:09
DocScrutinizerRST38h: we talked about musicians' equipment and why it has 6.3 rather than 3.522:09
MohammadAGwith a 400km trip ahead of me tomorrow22:09
MohammadAGit's gonna be boring22:09
MohammadAGsometimes, I wish I had an iPod tbh22:09
MohammadAGor a similar mp3 player, the N900 doesn't cut it for quick playback22:10
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GeneralAntillesDo we have an N950 icon yet?22:23
StskeepsGollum, perhaps?22:23
Stskeeps"My preciouss.."22:23
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gri_Anyone has a clue of transifex and qt translations?22:25
gri_It seems it won't accept .ts files from me :(22:26
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MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, know of any Nokian I can contact?22:32
MohammadAGbesides ddp.program22:32
GeneralAntillesNot particularly.22:32
GeneralAntillesI'd say ddp may be the best bet.22:32
GeneralAntillesachipa may know.22:32
MohammadAGalready contacted those22:32
MohammadAGbut it's been 18 days22:33
piggzstrange how i kep tpping my n900 to wake it up :)22:33
MohammadAGso unless they want to send it to me on my bday, I don't see a reason for the delay :p22:33
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* leinir ponders on things and accounts-qt...22:43
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macmaNElleo: thanks alot22:46
macmaNElleo: been fighting with aegis all day long22:47
macmaNi swear killing dragons in the medieval ages must've been simpler22:47
macmaNi think i subdued it now though, deployment process works again22:47
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macmaNwell apt-get update now, while not breathing just in case22:47
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frals<MohammadAG> GeneralAntilles, know of any Nokian I can contact?22:48
macmaNThe following extra packages will be installed: libpkcs11-helper1 openssl openssl-blacklist openvpn-blacklist22:49
macmaNuh, n950 doesnt havent openssl installed by default?22:49
macmaNElleo: ii  libssl0.9.8                                                    0.9.8k-8maemo7+dbg+0m6                                         SSL shared libraries22:51
macmaNi'm kinda scared about this one22:51
macmaNalthough i guess theres no conflicting files there22:55
macmaNi am not hearing at least an immediate explosion nor seeing smoke coming out..22:57
ElleomacmaN: I built the package so it uses the system's libssl version, all the the openssl package contains is the binaries23:02
Elleowhich aren't in the default repos23:02
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ElleomacmaN: typically "openssl" breaks down in to 4 or 5 packages "openssl, libsslx.x.x[-dev|dbg], libcrypt"23:04
macmaNElleo: good stuff. now i guess the issue is openvpn upstart-readiness.23:05
macmaNok nelisquare takes forever to launch23:08
MohammadAGfrals, 18 days in New Order23:18
achipaMohammadAG: have you talked to Nora ?23:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: how are you?23:21
DocScrutinizerpiggz: (tapping to keep it up) there's simple brightness applet for that23:23
piggzDocScrutinizer: i was joking about being used to tapping the n950 to wake it up, and i now do it automatically on the 900 :)23:24
* vandenoever wonders if there is a build condition for qmake *.pro files for n95023:24
DocScrutinizerpiggz: aah23:25
vandenoevere.g. "harmattan { SOURCES += harmattan.cpp }"23:25
MohammadAGHi Mohammad23:25
MohammadAGThank you for your email, we will try to send the device as soon as we can.23:26
MohammadAGApology for the delay,23:26
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, fine methinks :)23:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: good :-D23:28
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: considered that community dump repo?23:29
MohammadAGthat was 5 days ago23:29
macmaNMohammadAG: its a damn shame you are one of the last ones to get a device23:30
DocScrutinizerI'm almost tempted to say they obviously ship in order of most relevant latest23:31
SpeedEvilyep. :) (but not really)23:31
DocScrutinizerproof: I got mine first23:32
macmaNElleo: ok openvpn != upstart actually, on debian this is supposed to be handled by if-up.d etc23:34
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, can't log into OBS23:34
DocScrutinizermeh! :-/23:35
MohammadAGtalked to X-Fade, doesn't seem like he fixed it23:35
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: browser login??23:36
MohammadAGI'm seriously having problems with luck lately23:36
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, auth failed23:36
DocScrutinizeron web?23:36
DocScrutinizerI'm asking as this is notorious to be borked, and maybe I know how to work around it23:37
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I had to clean out my cookies, as the Nokia/meego SSO seems to leave a session-end cookie that never expires or gets cleared/overwritten23:38
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DocScrutinizerotoh you need to enable cookies or signon doesn't work either23:38
DocScrutinizerand then you need to use a *simple* URL to first logon, then from there go to the more complex URLs, as the redirect from intercepting logon page to e.g doesn't work and also leaves you with a endless-recursion error or sth23:40
DocScrutinizerall this seems to apply to as well as and ovi.com23:41
DocScrutinizerno idea about OBS23:41
DocScrutinizeriirc x-fade said "it uses same login as your nokia account" or similar statement, so I guess the problem also is the same23:42
DocScrutinizerI had that problem a year ago when meego started, and I still have it today23:43
DocScrutinizer(a year ago I didn't know about the gory details though)23:44
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DocScrutinizeraah, one more tip: check the "remember me on this computer" in logon screen, otherwise the cookies aren't sent it seems23:46
DocScrutinizerresult: you and on same logon page again23:46
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: result: you end on same logon page again23:46
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DocScrutinizer~Nokia-SSO is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer23:50
khertanc-obs is funny ... can't use + in filename23:56
khertanso build failed of course23:56
ElleomacmaN: yeah, it's from an old debian (lenny) package (pre-upstart)23:58
ElleomacmaN: as all the more recent packages use openssl 1.0 and I didn't particular wnat it to have to install libssl1.0.0 alongside libssl0.9.8 that the system already has23:59
Elleooh hang, that's the openssl package you're talking about openvpn23:59
Elleothat'll be a more recent one23:59

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