| seif | guys does any1 know where i can get mp-harmattan-rm680-pr | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Venemo | I'll just wait until it works | 00:00 |
| seif | lbt, does the CE edition also work on n950 | 00:00 |
| seif | ? | 00:00 |
| lbt | Venemo: or that | 00:00 |
| Venemo | :P | 00:00 |
| lbt | seif: they're working on it | 00:00 |
| djszapi|windows | Venemo: it works | 00:00 |
| Venemo | yeah, "most of the time" | 00:00 |
| lbt | djszapi|windows: he's a "late adopter" .... | 00:00 |
| djszapi|windows | most of the cases, there are people with 40-50 packages | 00:00 |
| djszapi|windows | there are some corner cases, like the monolythic kdelibs | 00:00 |
| seif | what is missing for it to work on n950 | 00:01 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: btw, can you give us a community account ? | 00:01 |
| Venemo | I'm an early adopter for stuff that I can handle, and a late adopter for stuff that I'm incompetent about but see others complaining. | 00:01 |
| djszapi|windows | We discussed it during the week we would like to have some extra-dev repository | 00:01 |
| lbt | djszapi|windows: of course... you don't have one ? | 00:01 |
| Venemo | seif, you'll need to ask Stskeeps about that one | 00:01 |
| djszapi|windows | where we can share the stuff until the apps and apps-testing is ready | 00:01 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: community account, not my account | 00:01 |
| Venemo | djszapi|windows, I wasn't around at the time of that discussion... could you tell me the results? | 00:01 |
| seif | Stskeeps, around | 00:01 |
| lbt | oh ... you mean Surrounds:Testing | 00:01 |
| djszapi|windows | Venemo: it was a long discussion... | 00:02 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: nope | 00:02 |
| lbt | there's no such thing as a community account | 00:02 |
| Venemo | djszapi|windows, in short, will we have some repo to which all of us can upload their stuff? | 00:02 |
| lbt | Venemo: yes | 00:02 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: surrounds is a theroy | 00:02 |
| djszapi|windows | * theory | 00:02 |
| Venemo | when is it expected to work? | 00:02 |
| lbt | Venemo: Real Soon Now | 00:03 |
| djszapi|windows | it does not work in the practice (short term) | 00:03 |
| Venemo | lbt, ok, thank you :) | 00:03 |
| lbt | djszapi|windows: no.. it's not | 00:03 |
| Venemo | I'll look into it as soon as I get the time then :) | 00:03 |
| djszapi|windows | in the short term | 00:03 |
| djszapi|windows | I love the Surrounds idea, but after a long discussion here, it does not really work | 00:03 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: but we do need something for the short term | 00:03 |
| djszapi|windows | so we need a temporary community account until the surround system works | 00:03 |
| lbt | Surrounds:Testing | 00:04 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: there are quite a few packages out there, we would like to share these things | 00:04 |
| djszapi|windows | ok give us access | 00:04 |
| lbt | sure... I'll grant everyone full read/write/delete access on demand ... how will that go do you think? | 00:05 |
| djszapi|windows | we do not need bureacracy for short term, really. | 00:05 |
| djszapi|windows | we do need some interim solution | 00:05 |
| lbt | Elleo has one | 00:05 |
| lbt | https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21778 | 00:05 |
| macmaN | Elleo: is it building yet? (imagine donkey) | 00:05 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 21778 enh, Undecided, ---, maemo, NEW, Place cdbs package from home:elleo into Surrounds:Testing for Harmattan | 00:05 |
| Elleo | djszapi|windows: you could hack something temporary together that just wgets the contents of repositories from interested parties and merges their Packages files | 00:06 |
| lbt | I've also asked for a proposal on what criteria we use to manage such a repo | 00:06 |
| djszapi|windows | Elleo: it is an unneccesary overhead to a community repository, right ? | 00:06 |
| Elleo | lbt: that's not really a solution, that's just me asking for a package to be moved into Surrounds when it exists | 00:06 |
| lbt | total anarchy is not likely to be accepted | 00:06 |
| lbt | Elleo: it exists today | 00:06 |
| Elleo | lbt: for Harmattan stuff too? | 00:07 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: there are few people here making nice job...I would not guess we are making anarchy... | 00:07 |
| Elleo | I thought it only really worked for the standard Meego stuff currently? | 00:07 |
| Elleo | and my only really suggestion process wise was to try and implement some sort of package sponsorship/mentoring program | 00:07 |
| lbt | djszapi|windows: so, cut'n'paste the rules into a wiki page. Call it a proposal and we'll review it | 00:07 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: I am really sad seeing people making nice job and duplicate each other's work. | 00:08 |
| Elleo | so new people with packages can get them accepted based on recommendation from experienced people (and then eventually be moved into the category of 'experienced' people) | 00:08 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: ok, I am out of this discussion. bureacracy kills the short term cooperation. | 00:08 |
| lbt | djszapi|windows: yes... but no-one cared about Harmattan until a few weeks ago | 00:08 |
| lbt | djszapi|windows: bye | 00:08 |
| lbt | Elleo: yes... that's a great proposal | 00:09 |
| Elleo | lbt: I'm happy to offer assistance wherever I might be useful, but my knowledge of OBS is extremely limited currently | 00:09 |
| Elleo | and I'm not exactly overflowing with free time either ;) | 00:09 |
| lbt | the main issue wrt OBS knowledge is knowing what the implementation capability is | 00:09 |
| lbt | and what potential you have | 00:09 |
| lbt | eg that it gives PPAs for free | 00:10 |
| lbt | that you can build against multiple projects | 00:10 |
| seif | Elleo, can you make sure your python-telepathy also depends on mp-harmattan-rm680-pr | 00:10 |
| lbt | anyhow... up at 5am and need to pack | 00:11 |
| Venemo | good evening everyone :) | 00:11 |
| Venemo | bye | 00:11 |
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| lbt | Elleo: I will be afk a fair bit mon/tue but back wed. | 00:11 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt: your proposal is there for half a year | 00:11 |
| djszapi|windows | and still not even close to any "ready" stage. | 00:11 |
| lbt | djszapi|windows: yes.. and how many maemo people bothered? | 00:11 |
| djszapi|windows | I think it is better to make some interim compromise. | 00:12 |
| Elleo | lbt: okay, cool; have a good rest away from us nagging you ;) | 00:12 |
| djszapi|windows | until that is ready. Elleo's idea will go into that direction you proposed. | 00:12 |
| Elleo | seif: the general system meta-package? | 00:12 |
| djszapi|windows | it is gonna be any different | 00:12 |
| lbt | so unless you got your finger out and learned the OBS (which has been around since Mer) ... who else is to blame? | 00:12 |
| djszapi|windows | I am not speaking about that way. | 00:12 |
| djszapi|windows | * not gonna be | 00:12 |
| Elleo | seif: I don't fully understand why it should depend on that? | 00:12 |
| seif | Elleo, because it uninstalls it if i try to update | 00:13 |
| seif | and i cant reinstall it | 00:13 |
| seif | Elleo, also i keep getting | 00:14 |
| seif | Aegis rejecting /var/cache/apt/archives/libsqlite3-0_3.7.7-2_armel.deb: package 'libsqlite3-0' already installed from 'com.nokia.maemo' -- not replacing it from unknown origin | 00:14 |
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| djszapi|windows | it is expected | 00:14 |
| Elleo | oh, there's already a libsqlite3 package? | 00:14 |
| djszapi|windows | you cannot replace packages that way | 00:14 |
| Elleo | I'll remove that from my repo then | 00:14 |
| djszapi|windows | Elleo: indeed | 00:14 |
| Elleo | someone had mentioned earlier that there wasn't one so I built it for them | 00:14 |
| Elleo | oh well | 00:15 |
| djszapi|windows | Elleo: you should look for the harmattan repo | 00:15 |
| djszapi|windows | before packaging any package. | 00:15 |
| macmaN | Elleo: it didnt want to install libsqlite3 for me, so i am guessing that one stayed with system version | 00:15 |
| Elleo | macmaN: ah, or did you mean that the sqlite3 client wasn't available in the repos? | 00:16 |
| Elleo | (when you were discussing it earlier) | 00:16 |
| macmaN | Elleo: yes | 00:16 |
| macmaN | the client | 00:16 |
| Elleo | right, I think I got the wrong end of the stick a bit there then | 00:16 |
| Elleo | when I have some time tomorrow I'll recreate that package so it just builds the client and not the library as well | 00:16 |
| Elleo | until then I'll just remove the package altogether to avoid problems | 00:17 |
| macmaN | i dont think it did anything bad as such | 00:17 |
| macmaN | The following NEW packages will be installed sqlite3 | 00:17 |
| macmaN | 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded. | 00:17 |
| Elleo | seif: I suspect the loss of the metapackage was due to it trying to upgrade libsqlite3 from my repo | 00:18 |
| Elleo | seif: rather than from the telepathy-python package (which shouldn't really touch anything related to the metapackage) | 00:18 |
| Elleo | so once OBS updates the repo and removes it you should probably be alright (after an apt-get update) | 00:19 |
| macmaN | i need to figure out how to use this obs magic thing | 00:19 |
| djszapi|windows | Elleo: which is your repository ? Could you give me a link ? | 00:20 |
| Elleo | djszapi|windows: http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/elleo/Harmattan/ | 00:20 |
| djszapi|windows | Elleo: seems you also made some duplicated work | 00:21 |
| djszapi|windows | some of the packages were already available from there 1-2 weeks ago. | 00:21 |
| Elleo | djszapi|windows: nah, I branched some packages from you | 00:21 |
| djszapi|windows | and that is what I have been talking about | 00:21 |
| djszapi|windows | yeah, exactly! | 00:22 |
| djszapi|windows | everybody is branching or duplicating instead of having it in one place! | 00:22 |
| Elleo | djszapi|windows: well with a branch it can still be maintained in one place, it just means things get rebuilt (but fixes from the master still propogate down to everyone) | 00:22 |
| Elleo | it would be nicer to have a shared repo though I agree | 00:22 |
| Elleo | whether that's through Surrounds or through some interim measure | 00:23 |
| djszapi|windows | Surrounds is not interim at all | 00:23 |
| Elleo | however with the sort of interim measure I proposed I'm not sure that'll help much for building stuff | 00:23 |
| djszapi|windows | that is a real long future thing | 00:23 |
| Elleo | djszapi|windows: I meant Surrounds *or* something interim | 00:23 |
| djszapi|windows | forget Surrounds | 00:23 |
| djszapi|windows | we are discussing solution for the presence | 00:24 |
| Elleo | yeah, I'm saying the problem with what I suggested (simply wgetting and merging repos) doesn't help for building stuff so much (at least not on OBS) unless we could get that shared repo added to the default repositories for those build VMs | 00:25 |
| Elleo | it's only useful for helping get stuff out to people in a more organised manner | 00:25 |
| djszapi|windows | well, community account is sensible imo | 00:25 |
| djszapi|windows | and we can see here or some other way who are eager to make packages. | 00:26 |
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| djszapi|windows | it would be trust based without all the rules which is the long term solution, called Surrounds | 00:26 |
| MohammadAG | I still don't like the concept of OBS | 00:28 |
| MohammadAG | It'll never work right | 00:28 |
| piggz | http://www.piggz.co.uk/pgzurbandictionary2_0_0_1_armel.deb | 00:28 |
| piggz | becuase everyone needs an urban dictionary app for those awkward moments when you dont understand what someone just said | 00:29 |
| MohammadAG | see ^ ? | 00:29 |
| Elleo | seif: it looks like an earlier version of python-telepathy should already be accessible from somewhere? | 00:30 |
| Elleo | seif: for now I'll remove python-telepathy from my repository and have more of a look tomorrow | 00:31 |
| djszapi|windows | MohammadAG: what is wrong about OBS ? | 00:39 |
| MohammadAG | it'll never work in the sense of extras-devel | 00:39 |
| Elleo | all these half built packages (just distributing libs without binary components) in the official repos are a pain :/ (libsqlite3 without sqlite3, libssl without openssl, etc.) | 00:40 |
| djszapi|windows | MohammadAG: Could you please ellaborate ? | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | Do I have to? I've already done that many times | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | there's no central repository with all packages | 00:41 |
| djszapi|windows | ok, point me out to the relevant wiki page | 00:42 |
| djszapi|windows | if you would not like to tell it | 00:42 |
| MohammadAG | err, channel logs actually | 00:42 |
| djszapi|windows | MohammadAG: that is what we are trying to solve... | 00:42 |
| MohammadAG | how? OBS's concept is based on PPAs | 00:42 |
| MohammadAG | PPAs aren't supposed to be central | 00:43 |
| djszapi|windows | Do you know how OBS works ? | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG | everyone gets their home repo which has their built packages | 00:43 |
| kimju | see how the n900 meego-ce is working on obs.. | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG | really, it just adds overhead compared with -devel | 00:44 |
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| MohammadAG | PPAs usually provide newer versions of packages that are in the OS's base repo | 00:44 |
| djszapi|windows | MohammadAG: I think you are missing that part we /are/ trying to solve it | 00:45 |
| djszapi|windows | with having a community account so people can work directly to that | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | in this case, the base repo lacks important packages like git | 00:45 |
| seif | Elleo, oki doki | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | must've walked late into the conversation | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi|windows, tbh, I don't see why we can't just use the old builder system | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG | it worked well for chinook, diablo and fremantle | 00:47 |
| djszapi|windows | I like the consistency... | 00:47 |
| djszapi|windows | same way for any distribution and package format... | 00:47 |
| djszapi|windows | helps a lot when you already know the system | 00:48 |
| MohammadAG | exactly, all maemo devs know the system | 00:48 |
| MohammadAG | why move them to OBS | 00:48 |
| djszapi|windows | the world is not only about maemo | 00:48 |
| kimju | obs has nice feature of submitting (changes made to) the package to some other project in the obs. for my kernel work on n900/meego-ce, I'm doing development on my own :build project, when I've tested things some, I push them to my :test project, and when someone else has tested it from there, I push it to n900-adaptation project. from there it gets pushed to 1.2, 1.3, n900-ce, etc.. | 00:49 |
| djszapi|windows | kimju: are you a kernel hacker ? :) | 00:50 |
| kimju | no-one else needs to know my own build repo, few others know my test repo, but everyone is getting the packages pushed to collaborative repos. | 00:50 |
| kimju | djszapi|windows, somewhat.. if being current maintainer of kernel-adaptation-n900 counts? :) | 00:51 |
| djszapi|windows | I guess it counts, nice :) | 00:51 |
| kimju | and I've been working on other kernel stuff for several years | 00:52 |
| kimju | among other things | 00:52 |
| djszapi|windows | upstream linux kernel contribution ? | 00:53 |
| kimju | but my point about obs is that the personal repos are not a problem, they are usefull for development. and then when things are "ready", push them towards common repo. maybe via another step or two | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi|windows, sure, thought most devs working on Harmattan are from maemo.org | 00:53 |
| djszapi|windows | MohammadAG: not that I am aware of | 00:53 |
| djszapi|windows | I am from not there, not some of my friends either | 00:54 |
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| MohammadAG | and you're working on apps for the platform? | 00:54 |
| djszapi|windows | well, I have been working on the platform and apps as well | 00:54 |
| MohammadAG | kimju, for your own development, OBS is an excellent concept | 00:55 |
| djszapi|windows | platform kernel, userspace + apps | 00:55 |
| MohammadAG | but for pushing packages like git, x11-utils, libs, etc, I don't see the point | 00:55 |
| djszapi|windows | but he has just described it... | 00:55 |
| kimju | djszapi|windows, I'm not aware that anything with my name on it has been pushed upstream. mostly been working as subcontractor for various customers, doing drivers and baseport. it has been up to the customer what they do with it then. | 00:55 |
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| kimju | git is not that hard, it is only simple application. | 00:56 |
| MohammadAG | I know, I have it packaged locally | 00:56 |
| djszapi|windows | "simple" is a bit exaggeration :) | 00:57 |
| djszapi|windows | where Linus is there cannot be simple :) | 00:57 |
| kimju | MohammadAG, and really, the libs work just fine too. have you looked at how things work on the n900-ce ? | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | Nope, not really | 00:57 |
| djszapi|windows | kimju: is meego-ce still that slow ? | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | I've always tried to use meego-ce, but since I have it on my eMMC (alongside maemo), I have to use flasher to boot the kernel | 00:58 |
| MohammadAG | and I've never successfully compiled the kernel, always fails at the modem patch | 00:58 |
| kimju | djszapi|windows, it has been getting faster. | 00:58 |
| djszapi|windows | kimju: my zypper slowness bug has been open for ages. | 01:01 |
| djszapi|windows | that was really a critical issue | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, zypper takes time for me, but only slightly more than apt-get on maemo | 01:01 |
| kimju | there are issues with some programs. and a lot of depends on the speed of your sd card, especially with random access r/w performance (class rating is mostly about bulk transfer, not random access) | 01:03 |
| kimju | but generally, the raw performance data looks ok. | 01:03 |
| MohammadAG | I should write down my notes on installing meegoce to the eMMC | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | the "official" method on the wiki right now seems to be a script that breaks maemo | 01:04 |
| djszapi|windows | kimju: are there still people in that team ? Everybody is leaving Nokia nowadays | 01:05 |
| kimju | not everyone working on that is a nokian.. | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the point however is we'd need a community-experimental repo that has no such QA demands like kimju 's scheme for common repo with one or two prev steps in between from his private test repo | 01:05 |
| kimju | DocScrutinizer51, and as I've suggested already several times, anyone can do it. if he wants to accept everything without any review, then fine. | 01:06 |
| kimju | someone just needs to step up and volunteer to do it. | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | do it where? | 01:07 |
| kimju | obs. just create some home:user:community repo. | 01:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: GOOO :-) | 01:07 |
| kimju | the name doesn't matter | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, can't, sleeping at the hospital | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | wut??? | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :-o | 01:09 |
| macmaN | hmmm okey, got syslogd to log auth,* | 01:09 |
| macmaN | Jul 25 01:09:11 RM680 sshd[2838]: User user not allowed because account is locked | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | what pisses me off is 1) they don't have wifi, 2) not that big of an issue that needs a sleepover at the hospital | 01:09 |
| macmaN | Jul 25 01:09:11 RM680 sshd[2838]: Failed none for invalid user user from 192.168.1.111 port 35483 ssh2 | 01:09 |
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| macmaN | so that's what's bugging us. i wonder if account is locked because of no password? | 01:09 |
| macmaN | like mtd mentioned before | 01:10 |
| MohammadAG | macmaN, I'd try usermod -U username | 01:10 |
| djszapi|windows_ | MohammadAG: I wish you the fastest recovery :) | 01:10 |
| MohammadAG | of course, have the flashing image close | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: what happend? | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi|windows_, thanks, should be out of here by 6AM | 01:11 |
| macmaN | MohammadAG: hahaaa! success!! | 01:11 |
| macmaN | :) | 01:11 |
| macmaN | wow my blog is on fire tonight | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, nothing major, thinking of leaving this place, beds aren't very comfy :P | 01:11 |
| macmaN | i am not sure if it can handle like three posts in one night | 01:11 |
| djszapi|windows_ | MohammadAG: maemo infection ? :p | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG | no, OBS syndrome :P | 01:13 |
| djszapi|windows_ | hehehehehehe ;) | 01:13 |
| djszapi|windows_ | MohammadAG: I did/do know the maemo.org build system that much, but how much memory did it have ? Do you know that bit ? | 01:20 |
| djszapi|windows_ | actually the admin of maemo.org is nowadays towards OBS as well. | 01:20 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi|windows_, X-Fade should | 01:21 |
| MohammadAG | afaik -devel is 80+ GBs | 01:21 |
| djszapi|windows_ | btw, what is the reason why X-Fade is not available on this channel ? | 01:21 |
| MohammadAG | no autojoin | 01:22 |
| djszapi|windows_ | hefty :) | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | he was one of the first here | 01:22 |
| djszapi|windows_ | There is 6 GB for OBS from that I know. | 01:22 |
| macmaN | i just /msg-d x-f | 01:22 |
| macmaN | i just /msg-d x-fade | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | macmaN, heh, and I pinged him on #maemo | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi|windows_, afaik they upgraded the servers when Fremantle arrived | 01:22 |
| MohammadAG | the first two months with the N900 (was pretty much a noob back then) were horrible (repo-wise) | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | repos went down a lot, probably cause they were being hammered by N900 users | 01:23 |
| MohammadAG | anyway, maemo.org's repos need *some* cleanup | 01:24 |
| djszapi|windows_ | I do not wonder kdelibs fails with 6 GB | 01:24 |
| MohammadAG | with the introduction of QML, I see many devs who are mixing QML and C++ not cleaning up sources | 01:24 |
| djszapi|windows_ | with 6 GB full capacity for the Harmattan target | 01:24 |
| MohammadAG | so sources have .o filesin them | 01:25 |
| Elleo | seif: as far as I can tell there's already a python-telepathy package installed in the system by default, and so attempting to upgrade it to my version breaks the metapacakge (since that depends on a specific version of python-telepathy), is there a reason you can't use the version supplied? | 01:25 |
| djszapi|windows_ | 6 GB is a joke behind a XEN VM. | 01:25 |
| Elleo | seif: or is it just too old for what you need? (seems to be about 2 years out of date) | 01:25 |
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| djszapi|windows_ | Elleo: I need some packages if you have free time at some point =p | 01:28 |
| Elleo | heh | 01:29 |
| Elleo | well let me know what you need and I'll see about having a poke at it when I get a chance | 01:29 |
| djszapi|windows_ | polkit-qt | 01:29 |
| Elleo | I take it you've tried building a direct import from debian without success? | 01:30 |
| djszapi|windows_ | failed on more dependency layers :) | 01:31 |
| djszapi|windows_ | it is completely viable, I just gave up because of the lack of time | 01:31 |
| Elleo | ah, okay | 01:32 |
| Elleo | well if I have time I'll give it a god | 01:32 |
| Elleo | go* | 01:32 |
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| djszapi|windows_ | anybody coming to the Desktop Summit ? | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kimju: I think MohammadAG well catch the ball as soon as he's out of hospital. I'm going to help by checking for noob-proove handling | 01:39 |
| djszapi|windows_ | DocScrutinizer51: You are from Germany, you need to come :) | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | where to? | 01:40 |
| kimju | DocScrutinizer51, if you need any help, just ask. | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | do you need the 'png guy'? | 01:41 |
| djszapi|windows_ | DocScrutinizer51: Desktop Summit | 01:45 |
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| antman89691 | . | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | djszapi|windows_: yup, but *where* | 01:46 |
| djszapi|windows_ | Berlin | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | probably too far away , I'm living in the South | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kimju: sure, thanks (I hate it when GSM is swallowing IRC msgs :-D ) | 01:50 |
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| djszapi|windows_ | DocScrutinizer51: that is too damn, it would be nice to meet f2f :) | 01:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe you'll tink different after that really happened ;-D | 01:51 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 01:51 |
| djszapi|windows_ | heh | 01:51 |
| MohammadAG | yay, segfault in my facebook app | 01:52 |
| MohammadAG | fun times, it depends on a certain post so I can't reproduce it unless that post is visible, by the time I'm out of this place it'd be gone | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: don't use IM clinets on your last battery! it's going to be a looong night for your N900 and for you ;-D | 01:53 |
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| MohammadAG | IM is offline :p | 01:54 |
| kimju | MohammadAG, on n950 or something else? | 01:54 |
| MohammadAG | N900, I don't have my N950 yet | 01:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (certain post) that's what coredumps and post morten debugging are made for | 01:54 |
| MohammadAG | not a debug build :p | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | too bad | 01:55 |
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| MohammadAG | it's stripped of everything | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but actually doesn't matter much | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | as long as it created a coredump | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you can load debug symbols separately | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | oh btw | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | is there a dbus launcher for Harmattan? | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus based applauncher? | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | hmm actually nvm | 01:57 |
| MohammadAG | DBus services should work fine | 01:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | please elaborate | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG | Sociality uses DBus to start | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaaah | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG | this is how I implemented the run-in-background feature | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus service autostart | 02:01 |
| MohammadAG | /usr/bin/sociality is dbus-send --print-reply --dest=org.maemo.sociality /org/maemo/sociality org.maemo.sociality.top_application | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't that a bit complex, with dbus proxy etc, afaik? | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG | well, top_application is a method in MainWindow that focuses the window | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, you start it on systemboot? | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | the rest is based on /usr/share/dbus-1/services | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, that's what I meant I think | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | DBus activation is the term I think | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | top_application also shows the window if it's hidden | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus starting the service server when a msg is sent to it via one of the proxy instances by another dbus client | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | so if the user wishes to keep it in the background (configurable in settings), the X button simply hides the window, and when top_application is called, it's shown again | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 02:05 |
| MohammadAG | two advantages, 1) instant "start-up", 2) notifications still arive when the app is "closed" | 02:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I noticed today that qmlroundtrip can get started on multiple instances :-D | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: usually that mode is called iconify and should get a small icon in systray | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | no notice user about the still active app | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yeah, systray doesn't exist on maemo | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | also to open it up again usually | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's the system status menu | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | opening it up again is through the icon | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, but that's maemo specific | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | sociality is almost clean | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG | not sure if I should rewrite sociality in QML | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | for unknown reasons xchat seems to completely fail at implementing all this | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | users would want to use for the via Nokia N9 (braggers :P) | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | and for places checkins, not sure if the stock app allows this | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm out as here's a social networks refugee | 02:11 |
| MohammadAG | it's the only way to chat with friends here | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | not going to get taken piss out and abused by facebook and co | 02:12 |
| MohammadAG | most people I know prefer facebook over other chat services | 02:12 |
| divan | Hi all. I was told by Nokia tech person, that N9 firmware works on N950 like a charm, but they couldn't distribute devkits with it because it has Angry Birds preinstalled, so there are some copyright issues :) | 02:12 |
| antman8969 | well that's a lame reason | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG | I wouldn't be surprised | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | divan: We were told by some Nokia engineer that the N9 image can't get flashed to N950 due to certificate mismatch | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least for "our" CE N950 versions | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia core staff has "better" devices | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | so for them it may work | 02:14 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, I hear from him that first devices had problems with reflashing - aegis or some other security shit interrupted flashing (over the air, as I understood). But latest devkits they got were reflashed without any problems. | 02:15 |
| divan | s/hear/heard/ | 02:15 |
| infobot | divan meant: DocScrutinizer, I heard from him that first devices had problems with reflashing - aegis or some other security shit interrupted flashing (over the air, as I understood). But latest devkits they got were reflashed without any problems. | 02:15 |
| divan | There also a small change to get these firmwares unofficially. Not sure yet. | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | still there are obviously two flavours of devkit: the ones without CE printing and with R&D cert, and the ones that have CE print and no R&D cert | 02:16 |
| divan | He told that on default N950 firmware he experiences some problems with certificates for some .deb files installation, but on N9 firmware everything worked flawlessly, | 02:17 |
| divan | The devices I got were sent from Finland last friday. | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Is the N9 image suppose to be the consumer ready image? | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard of Nokia affilates that tried to install the N9 image to N950 and failed | 02:18 |
| divan | SpeedEvil, don't know. Still in active development now. | 02:18 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, when did they tell you that? | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | a week ago? | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the info about N9 firmware image requiring a cert that's not available on our N950 was in this chan, so probably should be in chanlog | 02:20 |
| kimju | I think someone said only a day or two ago here that there are now internal images also for ce n950. | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, missed that | 02:21 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, as he told, they had a problems with earlier devices (or firmwares? sry, i was inattentive) - actually they've made a few bricks :) But latest devices where flashed to N9 firmware without problems, as he told. | 02:21 |
| kimju | but guess that they create images whenever needed. | 02:21 |
| divan | kimju, seems to be true. | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | If you turn aegis 'off' - as I understand is possible on some internal n950 builds - does anything not work? | 02:23 |
| divan | btw, is there any better way to change default IP for SDK Mode than gconftool? | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - do any of the internal apps not work intentionally? | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I feel like going mental about the fact you can't discuss a single N950 related topic without stumbling into aegis | 02:23 |
| divan | :) | 02:24 |
| * divan haven't read Harmattan Security FAQ yet, so don't hate aegis.. yet.. | 02:24 | |
| kimju | I'm not sure if I hate it. I just hate that I can't override it.. | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think next time I bother will be when somebody says "yeah, for getting this to work you need to ENable aegis" | 02:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | How's call quality been for everybody? | 02:27 |
| MohammadAG | Depends who you're talking to :P | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: couldn't even bother to test | 02:27 |
| kimju | so far I've managed to work around its limitations, but some of the "solutions" are quite ugly. | 02:27 |
| divan | GeneralAntilles, it's pretty nice for me. Even used speakerphone without problems. | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | "Hello, 911? I'm just testing call quality, can you hear me?" | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: actually I did test it, briefly. With some echo123 for 10s. "works, check, next" | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | if the person on the other side hangs up, it's good | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm going to say it's on the other end, then. | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | They were bitching about the call quality. | 02:28 |
| divan | MohammadAG, lol | 02:28 |
| kimju | I've only answered couple of calls on that, no complaints so far. | 02:29 |
| divan | GeneralAntilles, btw, there are some noice reduction option. Didn't enabled it yet. | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | oh right | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I had them disabled | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | does the N950 choke on calls like the N900? | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | on purpose | 02:30 |
| achipa | divan: there is no N9 firmware per se. R&D certificates and variants are a different story. | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems like they're using the "upper" mic to catch ambient noise and subtract it from the signal on "lower" main mic | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | two mics? | 02:31 |
| divan | achipa, just told what Nokia engineer told me. | 02:31 |
| achipa | divan: two nokia engineers disagree, nothing to see, move along ;) | 02:32 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, cool. It's possible to test it if it works that way. | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | I think the iPhone does it the other way round, for some stupid reason | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | might turn out to yield very suboptimal results on wind whistles or some hood or hair making noise at upper "earpiece" end of phone | 02:32 |
| divan | achipa, ok, you won ) | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | bottom mic's for noise c., upper one's for voice | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | of course, Apple engineers were smart enough not to put insulation between the 3.5mm plug and the upper mic | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: sure, video recording even has excellent stereo audio | 02:33 |
| achipa | divan: just saying that what has been said to be N9 fw in this context actually means "new fw" | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | which means some iPhones are muted | 02:33 |
| divan | achipa, how much 'new'? ) | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | divan: there are nightly builds available to at least a fraction of core Nokians | 02:36 |
| achipa | divan: as they say today's build is today's build. at some point someone will say 'good enough' and it gets to people | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 02:37 |
| divan | :) | 02:39 |
| achipa | and before you ask - soon TM :) | 02:40 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes he could be bugtesting - but meh. :) | 02:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: there *are no bugs* in Nokia's sw :-P | 02:42 |
| achipa | SpeedEvil: IMHO bugtesting makes sense when your version and upgrades are clear, and preferably when you get close to a 'real' bugzilla | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least not in that version we mere mortals ever get a hold on | 02:43 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: hey, you get the stable versions ;) | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | achipa: yes - indeed. I know it's irrelevant at the moment if there is no way to get close to nightlies | 02:44 |
| divan | So, how it's supposed to configure ssh for SDK mode? Should I manually change password? Actually I still didn't find root access for N950.. Any FAQ available? | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Or indeed bugzilla so you can track old ones. | 02:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | achipa, sounds like a threat. | 02:45 |
| macmaN | divan: devel-su | 02:46 |
| divan | macmaN, oh, thanks =) | 02:47 |
| achipa | GeneralAntilles: just saying that nightlies (generally, not Nokia-specific) are a two edged sword - you get the goodies over the old one, but can't expect more than a 'yeah, that broke, sorry' | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | achipa, yes, I know. I'm being snarky because I'm bored. | 02:49 |
| divan | Do they really suggest using root ssh access to device on developer nokia wiki??? | 02:51 |
| divan | ah, root isn't real root on N950, I forgot! | 02:52 |
| achipa | no (or do we/they ?) | 02:52 |
| divan | achipa, http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Getting_started_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Setting_up_and_using_USB_connection | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | to all those who by bad luck missed it: /topic = A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing, discuss in #meego-arm please | Chanlogs: See ~logs, http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | 02:53 |
| divan | I was expected to see something like hints to configure developer user | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | on the N950-landing-page there are some really useful links to pages with info | 02:53 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, thanks! | 02:54 |
| achipa | divan: that's wrong, gotta write myself a reminder for tomorrow to correct... | 02:54 |
| achipa | and yes, I would expect a ssh developer@.... | 02:55 |
| divan | achipa, does developer user has default password? | 02:55 |
| achipa | divan: no | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe, I wondered same when scrutinizing passwd | 02:55 |
| achipa | divan: it gets generated when you (re) start the sdk connectivity | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | almost was about to start john on it | 02:56 |
| divan | Would be nice to have ssh keys initial exchange mechanism (like in MadDeveloper) by default in SDK Connection tool | 02:56 |
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| divan | achipa, hmm... generated and displayed? Didn't see one. | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually I was more temped to lock that account | 02:57 |
| divan | achipa, sorry my bad | 02:57 |
| achipa | divan: tap on SDK connectivity and it will tell | 02:57 |
| divan | achipa, see it already. | 02:57 |
| achipa | aye | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | you *might* take care about changing default pw for root, but I guess a lot of users miss to take care about develper account | 02:57 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: plus, it only works if you connect from 10.* or 192.168.* | 02:58 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, agree. I would disable root ssh access at all. | 02:58 |
| achipa | or rather to... anyway, it has something to do with IPs ;) | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | achipa: I set up a open wifi near nokia, and ... | 02:59 |
| divan | achipa, where do ip-addresses denied? | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | It's in /etc/sshd/ssh.config I think | 02:59 |
| achipa | divan: no idea, ssh config would be a good place to look | 02:59 |
| achipa | SpeedEvil: that's always an option. Also for Intel with the exopc's ;) | 03:00 |
| divan | thanks. it's also would be nice to have a ability to configure default ip-address. (or even change default from 2.15 to 2.16 or smth.) | 03:01 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I traced my N900 shutdowns | 03:01 |
| MohammadAG | well, at least the last one | 03:01 |
| MohammadAG | Jul 25 02:54:59 Nokia-N900 DSME: battery empty state received | 03:01 |
| divan | many of N950 developers do have N900 and stored ssh keys for it | 03:02 |
| MohammadAG | it still has about 50 percent left | 03:02 |
| divan | achipa, as I understood currently it could be changed only via gconf, right? | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: The cell in my n900 is getting noticably deader. | 03:04 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: though not lower in capacity | 03:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | divan: /etc/ssh/ssh_config --> AllowUsers *@127.0.0.1 *@10.0.0.0/8 *@172.16.0.0/12 *@192.168.0.0/16 | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | err /etc/ssh/sshd_config | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: cell aging | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: impedance getting too high | 03:09 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, yep, I see, thanks | 03:09 |
| divan | I came to the Nokia Store in Moscow yesterday, and asked about cover case for the phone (expected E7's one will fit). When store stuff saw N950, they literally stopped working and left the customers who were in the store :) Even more, two cute girls from the stuff asked my phone :) | 03:11 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 03:12 |
| divan | s/phone/phone number/ | 03:12 |
| infobot | divan meant: I came to the Nokia Store in Moscow yesterday, and asked about cover case for the phone number (expected E7's one will fit). When store stuff saw N950, they literally stopped working and left the customers who were in the store :) Even more, two cute girl... | 03:12 |
| divan | infobot, you're buggy | 03:12 |
| SpeedEvil | An alternate way to get n950 time - find someone with one, and sneak time with it while they're asleep. | 03:13 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil so it's not bme being retarded? | 03:14 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Well - yes and no. | 03:14 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Would it work if BME diddn't shut it down immediately - possibly for several more months. | 03:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Though calls may drop out | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I more tend to think it's probably a hardware shutdown | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Hardware shuts down at 2750 or something | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | A _long_ way from the BME threshold. | 03:15 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, most other shutdowns are | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but aiui bme has a delay | 03:16 |
| divan | I had the similar story with N900, btw. One girl asked me to hold the N900 in her hands and started top open and close slider. After tenth iteration she rolled her eyes and said with a gasp - "Oh God, I'm almost cumming of this sound" )))) That was fun. | 03:16 |
| MohammadAG | last one wasn't, there was the white LED fading away (dsme) | 03:16 |
| divan | s/top/to/ | 03:16 |
| infobot | divan meant: I had the similar story with N900, btw. One girl asked me to hold the N900 in her hands and started to open and close slider. After tenth iteration she rolled her eyes and said with a gasp - "Oh God, I'm almost cumming of this sound" )))) That was fun. | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw this discussion *should* go to #maemo | 03:16 |
| divan | wow, I just switched N950 off and when I turned it again, the video player image appeared (with paused movie screenshot and Play button) for a few seconds. | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | USB connected? | 03:26 |
| divan | yep, it was connected | 03:26 |
| divan | I disconnected it and the phone boot up | 03:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | when on USB, the device doesn't shut off at all, it simply changes runlevel | 03:33 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, what's the idea behind such behavior? | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Faster bootup | 03:37 |
| divan | Ok, and final for today (I hope) question - what's the situation with repositories? Any additional repos available? The building and submitting process via OBS is similar to Maemo one, or there are some key differences? | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | There are no unified repositories yet | 03:42 |
| divan | SpeedEvil, is it temporarily? | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | People are working on it apparantly. | 03:43 |
| divan | Ah, good. | 03:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | divan: you get a PPA (whatever it was a TLA for), a private repo, but there's no central one yet. MohammadAG is going to change that tomorrow it seems | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | divan: for now there's http://ageofikon.com/prh/ | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks rm_you | 03:49 |
| antman8969 | whats this? is someone sponsoring a new repo? | 03:49 |
| divan | DocScrutinizer, thanks | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | antman8969: look at it, I think it's pretty obvious | 03:50 |
| MohammadAG | 2 more hours and I'm out of this place | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 03:51 |
| MohammadAG | I'll sleep the next day, f it, didn't do anything yesterday | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: just don't gable. We need you for some more time :-D | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | gamble* | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 03:53 |
| antman8969 | docscrutinizer, I understand what that link is.... but you said mohammadag was "taking care of it tomorrow".... how | 03:53 |
| MohammadAG | public repo | 03:54 |
| antman8969 | THATS what I was asking | 03:54 |
| MohammadAG | whether it's OBS, or a custom builder | 03:54 |
| antman8969 | have you already been bombared with questions? Did you put your plans in a wiki somewhere perhaps? | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I think OBS is *really* the better way as long as it works | 03:55 |
| antman8969 | ^^ | 03:55 |
| MohammadAG | precisely DocScrutinizer | 03:55 |
| MohammadAG | _if_ it works, I have no issues with it | 03:55 |
| MohammadAG | the point is to have a repo that has no QA | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I anticipate accepance issues with an alien repo | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 03:56 |
| MohammadAG | I hate acceptance, -testing wasn't the nicest experience | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | acceptance as in "generally considered a good idea" | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | a community repo won't be worth much when >50% of developer community don't use it | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | a community repo on OBS will probably receive instant acceptance | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | I just want all tools packaged up and ready to install | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here :-D | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | the SDK/tools repo is sad | 03:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | depressing is the term | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | thanks | 03:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Off-topic: Teehees @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLeCTaSG2-U | 04:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | First massive bogon. | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | 30% is not lost in the grid | 04:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - I've chopped power by half with the aid of power meters. | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, the opening bit about turning off the cellphones sort of sets up the whole series of hilarity. | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I was ignoring that. | 04:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like his DSP-based detection of device usage, though. | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually that's an idea for an app I had recently, call it an extension of the original magnetometer electric current detector | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLeCTaSG2-U#t=24m28s | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, specific link. | 04:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, the scary part is that LOTS AND LOTS of people buy completely into this insanity. | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | I thought a general timer that records arbitrary sensor|filter|threshold states would be cool to do such things like detecting when the fridge is on/off, or when somebody ringed the doorbell, or when sun started to shine, or.... or.... | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I question if that's really possible. | 04:25 |
| SpeedEvil | However GeneralAntilles - the privacy violations are quite correct. | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I've got a 5s log of power use. It's quite easy. | 04:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too bad about natural monopolies. | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 04:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want a fuel cell I can stick in my garage. | 04:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | augment with solar. | 04:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I have 600W of solar cells I need to solder up. | 04:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: the facts are 66% correct (the 33% incorrect are of course the most exciting part they thought they can sell the whole story with) - you can't detect what's on the other end of a PSU, usually | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: My idea was for N9(50), not for the powermeter | 04:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, I was assuming that the amount of noise generated by the devices running in an averaged sized household would make any sort of meaningful classification difficult anyway. | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | not necessarily, but for sure detecting a 5W DC motor powered by a PSU was next to impossible | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | For much stuff - fridges, heaters, lights, it's easy | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Fridges - for example - have a high spike, then an exponential tailoff plus a constant | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | for lights though you can't tell apart different rooms with same type of illumination | 04:36 |
| SpeedEvil | indeed | 04:36 |
| Termana | morning | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: moo | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | also it's absolutely impossible to detect 100,000s of different appliances you *could* use, by just looking up the individual electrical power fingerprint | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could distinguish the 20 or 50 you got at home, after proper training phase | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | you probably even could tell which program the TV is on | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it is a CRT or a model with dynamic backlight | 04:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Even just fridge + lights tells you a lot | 04:41 |
| SpeedEvil | And some signatures are obvious | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | fridge tells you about nuttin in fact | 04:41 |
| SpeedEvil | 2kw for 60s every morning = kettle | 04:41 |
| SpeedEvil | door openings | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can't detect door openings | 04:41 |
| SpeedEvil | You can | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | statistically yes, to the point - no | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Not by the light - but by the delta-t changing | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | When I don't open the door, my fridge cycles every 53 min or so. | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup, but that's also influenced by how much is inside the fridge, whether or not it gets some sun, the room temp, and whatnot else | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | If I open the door, it cycles at least 10 min earlier | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | It's really quite static. At least in my case. | 04:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Ambient is of course an issue, though it's always a very small change - not 1/5th you get on door-open | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet me filling my fridge with 5L of new milk, plus maybe opening the *** freezer, will quite mess up any statistical approach | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | too many variables | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | you can easily tell someone getting the milk out when they wake up, for example. | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might find out about door when absolutely static setup | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway this dude shot my eardrums | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet those privacy fanatics also claim for anonymous internet access | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm very concerned about privacy, but not exactly concerned about smart power meter | 04:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody got a PackRat link handy? | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, ping? | 05:12 |
| antman8969 | http://ageofikon.com/prh/index.php?Action=list&System=.%2F&Arg=harmattan&Section=&Repo=0 | 05:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Beautiful | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | now on N950-landing-page (and thanks nokia for the js on the projects page, and the URL containing [] ) | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | CBA to figure how to fix the URL so it shows correctly on mediawiki | 05:40 |
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| ieatlint | complaining about smartmeters makes about as much sense as complaining that your phone company is tracking your phone calls | 06:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: well, implementing a DSP is a bit of an overkill for a power meter | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp since the energy company can't really use the data you'd get with a DSP and nifty algos for optimizing their main duty of delivering good quality cheap electric energy | 06:37 |
| ieatlint | they will here | 06:38 |
| ieatlint | they're talking about tiered charges, electricity will cost more at certain times a day, to encourage you to avoid doing high-power items during peak times | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh, how? | 06:38 |
| ieatlint | presumably by recording how much power you used during a given hour of the day | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | so, what got that to do with using a DSP for meters? | 06:39 |
| ieatlint | i must be misunderstanding, as the DSP i'm assuming here is for generating these statistics | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ignal processing isn't about statistics | 06:40 |
| ieatlint | well wouldn't even the measuring of the usage be signal processing? | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's all about very detailed analysis of the signal aka power consumption per 1/50th of a seconf | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | DSP is a very clearly defined hw technology | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dsp | 06:41 |
| infobot | methinks dsp is (Digital Signal Processor) A DSP is a microprocessor designed to work with analog signals such as video or audio that have been digitally encoded. The DSP then takes these digital representations and performs operations on them. DSPs are used in video, sound, and modem technology. Intel's MMX instruction set is basically an attempt to make the Pentium processor line capable of DSP operations. This follows Intel's theory of putting all ... | 06:41 |
| ieatlint | well, then the only reason i can fathom for a DSP would be the transmission of the collected data | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | statistics are general purpose low speed computing | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, fair enough | 06:43 |
| ieatlint | most of the criticism around here of them are based on bizarre claims that they cause cancer | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 06:44 |
| ieatlint | yeah, it's funny until you realize they're serious | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet they are, and hell probably they're right :-P All these worries all the time, this can't go unnoticed by your immune system | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it probably really causes cancer, for those who are affraid it would | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's like the massively increased number of headaches and other illness around that new BTS station, where the telco speaker answered "worrying, really worrying. And how bad will it get when next week we get power on the system!" | 06:48 |
| ieatlint | heh, yeah, pretty much | 06:49 |
| ieatlint | my favourite is when they block new cell towers due to health concerns, and then complain that their cell phone signal sucks | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEHEHE | 06:49 |
| ieatlint | this whole cause/effect thing is hard to follow, they get lost somewhere in the middle | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw that's why here often the BTS are disguised now | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | looking like a new chimney, whatever | 06:53 |
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| ieatlint | they disguise them to blend in here more, but neighbours are still notified well in advance of any installation, and they can then petition to block its installation | 06:54 |
| ieatlint | they | 06:54 |
| ieatlint | they're often successful | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | paradox, as the neighbours usually are the ones that get least of any EM radiation of those highly selectively antennae | 06:55 |
| ieatlint | heh, we have the excellent acronym NIMBY for them -- "not in my backyard" | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/selectively/directional/ | 06:56 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: paradox, as the neighbours usually are the ones that get least of any EM radiation of those highly directional antennae | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually the EM load created by their own home APs is way higher than that of a BTS 50m away | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | or DECT phones | 06:59 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: hey | 07:25 |
| rm_you | BTW i have mplayer and pandora built | 07:25 |
| rm_you | pandora requires mplayer | 07:25 |
| rm_you | err pyRadio | 07:25 |
| rm_you | it is bugged right now, it won't advance to the next dong, but it WORKS, so that's something | 07:25 |
| rm_you | didn't have time to work on it today | 07:25 |
| rm_you | there's some weird issues with thread locking | 07:25 |
| rm_you | *won't advance to the next song *automatically* you just have to press the button to advance | 07:26 |
| rm_you | anywho, off to bed >_> | 07:26 |
| rm_you | sorry I missed you GeneralAntilles | 07:26 |
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| antman8969 | tried them both gj rm_you | 07:27 |
| rm_you | i wish i could get MAFW backend working for pyRadio >_> | 07:28 |
| rm_you | meanwhile the mplayer backend is buggy and more intensive, but it works | 07:28 |
| rm_you | if someone wants to look at that, i will put the code up too | 07:28 |
| antman8969 | yea not a big fan of slave mplayer.. but it does work | 07:29 |
| lynxis | juhuu, n950 is done with kernel compilation ;) | 07:30 |
| rm_you | yeah | 07:30 |
| rm_you | it's hacked together quickly | 07:30 |
| rm_you | so i can listen to pandora again on my drive home from work :P | 07:30 |
| antman8969 | haha | 07:30 |
| rm_you | i'm expecting the original maintainer prolly to do a proper job | 07:30 |
| rm_you | but i will still try to get it slightly more usable in the meantime | 07:31 |
| rm_you | when i can | 07:31 |
| antman8969 | including interface? or just logic | 07:31 |
| rm_you | logic first | 07:31 |
| rm_you | then interface | 07:31 |
| antman8969 | sounds good | 07:31 |
| rm_you | might rewrite interface in QML if i figure out how to do python with QtCreator | 07:31 |
| rm_you | or something | 07:31 |
| rm_you | anywho, sleep time | 07:31 |
| * rm_you sleeps | 07:31 | |
| antman8969 | qml probably the way to go | 07:31 |
| antman8969 | haha good night | 07:31 |
| lynxis | rm_you, fm-radio or mplayer ? | 07:31 |
| antman8969 | pyradio using mplayer | 07:32 |
| antman8969 | pandora client | 07:32 |
| antman8969 | i'll get you the link to his debs... sec | 07:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: hey, I'm a bit late but I want to remind you on MWKN | 07:33 |
| antman8969 | http://www.sheeplauncher.net/debs/ | 07:33 |
| antman8969 | lol on monday | 07:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, yep, finished it up. Thanks! | 08:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 08:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Goddamnit | 08:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa's publishing script ran an hour early. | 08:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Missing a front page article and half of the "Thanks!" story. . . . | 08:18 |
| MohammadAG | blame daylight savings | 08:19 |
| GAN900 | UTC should be UTC should be UTC. :( | 08:20 |
| GAN900 | Funnily enough, it screwed fiferboy exclussively. | 08:21 |
| GAN900 | He's not thanked and his story isn't on the front page. | 08:21 |
| RST38h | ? | 08:24 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, Jaffa's on vacation. mwkn's publishing is now scripted, but the scripts picked things up an hour early. | 08:31 |
| GAN900 | 5 UTC instead of 6 | 08:31 |
| RST38h | hehe | 08:36 |
| RST38h | GAN: Finally got the N950 btw | 08:36 |
| RST38h | GAN: Looks cool, albeit unfinished and almost asking to file a bunch of bug reports. Will try developing today. | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | just recall it's an ancient firmware :P it's incredible how many bugs get fixed in the last sprints | 08:37 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: yeah... as long as I avoid certain spots though (like turning on the virtual kbd capslock and then going into numbers entry) it feels more or less ok =) | 08:38 |
| MohammadAG | at least you got it :P | 08:39 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: There is one issue with the current QML docs btw - they all assume you are using Qt Creator. I mean, I *can* use Qt Creator, but doing it directly on Linux (with local OBS) feels more comfortable | 08:39 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no clue | 08:40 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Just wait, I got lucky | 08:40 |
| * Stskeeps writes qml manually | 08:40 | |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: If I weren't lucky, it would be stuck in customs now, forever. | 08:40 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: same here | 08:40 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, Russian customs as bad as Israeli customs? I'm surprised | 08:42 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Russian customs are pretty much a tool for theiremployees to enrich themselves | 08:43 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 08:43 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: And the customs law has been designed specifically for this purpose | 08:43 |
| MohammadAG | I was almost taxed 250 bucks for the DDP N900 | 08:43 |
| RST38h | 250 is nothing | 08:44 |
| RST38h | Try 600 | 08:44 |
| MohammadAG | wtf | 08:44 |
| RST38h | exactly | 08:44 |
| MohammadAG | it's 34% of the price here for mobiles | 08:44 |
| MohammadAG | I imagine the NULL price of the N950 will delay calculations by a week | 08:44 |
| RST38h | Here, the customs agent can go into a huge book, find a random item there, and tax your parcel according to that random item | 08:45 |
| MohammadAG | of course, they can say it's priceless and tax me for that | 08:45 |
| RST38h | Saying that you have put the price incorrectly, and he is doing his own price evaluation | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: 5% of oo? | 08:45 |
| MohammadAG | oo? | 08:46 |
| Stskeeps | infinity | 08:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:46 |
| MohammadAG | no, 34% | 08:46 |
| MohammadAG | Funny how the receipt of the N900 said Mobile computer, they ignored the computer part | 08:47 |
| MohammadAG | laptops/computers are taxed 17% | 08:48 |
| MohammadAG | but really, customs are nothing compared with security, they isolated my amplifier in a room with explosive material labels on it | 08:49 |
| ieatlint | if you really want to have fun, give me your address and i'll mail you a big bag of flour and some modeling clay | 09:07 |
| ieatlint | plus some batteries and misc wire | 09:07 |
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| * divan changed system language and device won't boot ( Loop with reboots ( | 10:04 | |
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| razvaway | in WebView, what does it take to kill the software keyboard once it shows up? :D | 10:09 |
| antman8969 | in theory, causing a text field to lose active focus | 10:19 |
| razvaway | theory doesn't match practice for me unfortunately :) it even stays there after I close my makeshift dialog | 10:24 |
| razvaway | but I've tried it in a sheet also, so it's likely not my code that does something weird | 10:25 |
| razvaway | and my dialog was a fullscreen semi-transparent Item that's a child of a sheet, anyway, nothing spectacular | 10:25 |
| razvaway | but this is a huge problem for any oauth app... | 10:26 |
| divan | Anyone knows why Maps requires Ovi authorization? | 10:27 |
| razvaway | Maps the app or maps the component? | 10:28 |
| divan | razvaway, the App | 10:29 |
| *** razvaway is now known as razvanpetru | 10:29 | |
| divan | Actually I don't mind, but Ovi login doesn't work for me (http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3747) | 10:29 |
| razvanpetru | well, Nokia seems to be borrowing a trick from Google these days, you have to "activate" phones, activate apps and so on. No benefit whatsoever for the user, but they can track you much easier this way... | 10:30 |
| flux | I guess they want to know who they are giving their data to. perhaps in hopes to get some user data, reduce possibility of scraping (maps could be fingerprinted?), etc. or maybe they do it because they can ;). | 10:30 |
| razvanpetru | and I doubt that anyone will bother to create another map so meego will be stuck with ovi maps | 10:30 |
| flux | sure they will. there are openstreetmaps and google maps based ones for n900 as well, I would be surprised to -not- see them on meego. | 10:31 |
| divan | I've tried already all suggestions to make SSO Sign In to work(reset password, reflash, set automatic time update option), but still no luck ( | 10:31 |
| razvanpetru | well google is even worse with tracking :P | 10:32 |
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| razvanpetru | divan: doesn't it have the option to create an account? symbian phones let you do that when activating | 10:32 |
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| razvanpetru | I'm talking about companies like Sygic, Navigon, etc. They would not invest in MeeGo due to Nokia's comments and the fact that OviMaps is free | 10:33 |
| divan | razvanpetru, I have account already.. And people who claiming that error says creating new account doesn't work either. | 10:33 |
| RST38h | The "and the fact..." part is completely unnecessary | 10:33 |
| maxw | anyone know how to get album art in the music app? | 10:34 |
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| MohammadAG | same as on N900 | 10:37 |
| djszapi|windows | MohammadAG: out of the not comfy beds ? :p | 10:37 |
| MohammadAG | not yet :/ | 10:40 |
| maxw | MohammadAG: I copied my music from the n900, but no album art is copied...is there some folder I should copy? | 10:42 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: http://www.msqt.org/ | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 11:08 |
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| MohammadAG | back home | 11:24 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm, can't log into OBS | 11:32 |
| djszapi|windows | why not ? | 11:35 |
| MohammadAG | authentication failed, not sure why | 11:35 |
| MohammadAG | 100% sure I have an account there | 11:35 |
| djszapi|windows | wfm | 11:37 |
| djszapi|windows | Job seems to be stuck here, killed. [ 80%] No buildstatus set, either the packager broke the base system (glibc/bash/perl) or the build host has a kernel or hardware problem, OBS server will retry... | 11:39 |
| djszapi|windows | lbt_away ^ | 11:39 |
| MohammadAG | djszapi|windows, can you look through users' homes? | 11:40 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure what my username is | 11:40 |
| djszapi|windows | sorry, I am on Windows, every step is a pain... | 11:41 |
| djszapi|windows | Search results for "mohammadag" (0) | 11:46 |
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| MohammadAG | what about mohammad7410? | 11:48 |
| Kaadlajk | home:mohammad7410 I can find that | 11:48 |
| djszapi|windows | https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Amohammad7410 | 11:49 |
| MohammadAG | wonder what my password is, I'm fairly sure I never changed it | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | meego.com one | 11:49 |
| djszapi|windows | MohammagAG: reminder, password change ? | 11:49 |
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| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, meego.com one doesn't work | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | odd | 11:51 |
| MohammadAG | can anyone change it? | 11:53 |
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| djszapi|windows | since lbt is away, I would suggest X-Fade on #maemo or #meego | 11:53 |
| MohammadAG | he's usually away too :P | 11:54 |
| djszapi|windows | if you cannot do it yourself (which is odd) | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: click recover password on meego.com site? | 11:54 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, my meego.com pass works for meego.com | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | ok, then something broken on cobs side | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | same db | 11:54 |
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| khertan | Morning | 12:29 |
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| infobot | lardman: please check http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-07-22.log.html#t2011-07-22T18:42:19, cheers DocScr | 12:37 |
| lardman | morning | 12:37 |
| razvanpetru | how can I make a call from QML? :) | 12:37 |
| djszapi|windows | to a C++ code or to a javascript method ? | 12:38 |
| lardman | phone call? | 12:38 |
| razvanpetru | yes | 12:38 |
| razvanpetru | click on contact details (email, web, phone) and take an action using the native app | 12:38 |
| djszapi|windows | oh :) | 12:38 |
| razvanpetru | ideally it would be QML... | 12:38 |
| khertan | Qt.openUrlExternally("tel:<number>") | 12:43 |
| khertan | razvanpetru, ^ | 12:43 |
| razvanpetru | thanks khertan, does this close the browser after the call? on symbian I had the issue where it opened the web browser, made the call, but then the browser just sat there | 12:44 |
| lardman | khertan: what provides that fn? | 12:44 |
| razvanpetru | lardman: it's a protocol | 12:44 |
| razvanpetru | like http, ftp, etc | 12:44 |
| lardman | this is QML then? | 12:44 |
| khertan | it s a browser protocol | 12:44 |
| razvanpetru | not really QML :) | 12:44 |
| razvanpetru | but if it's the only way... | 12:45 |
| lardman | it opens the browser then rather than using the MIME handlers? | 12:45 |
| razvanpetru | I don't know, on Symbian it does | 12:45 |
| razvanpetru | I will try it | 12:45 |
| lardman | On Fremantle it would just open the default tel: handler | 12:45 |
| lardman | was part of QtM | 12:45 |
| razvanpetru | that's good, makes sense | 12:45 |
| lardman | same works for sms: iirc | 12:46 |
| razvanpetru | what was part of QtM? | 12:46 |
| lardman | the fn to open a url iirc | 12:46 |
| razvanpetru | hm... thought it was qtcore | 12:46 |
| khertan | razvanpetru, it didn't open browser on my n950 | 12:46 |
| lardman | hmm, has been a while, I may be wrong | 12:47 |
| razvanpetru | super :) | 12:47 |
| razvanpetru | otoh, symbian has a lot of these gotchas | 12:47 |
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| khertan | but it didn't iniate a call too | 12:48 |
| razvanpetru | :))) | 12:48 |
| khertan | it s present screen where you can choose to open a call or send a message | 12:48 |
| khertan | and details of the contact | 12:48 |
| razvanpetru | even better :) | 12:48 |
| razvanpetru | it's actually the preferred UX way, put the user in control | 12:49 |
| khertan | indeed | 12:50 |
| khertan | but depends on use case | 12:50 |
| maxw | still can't figure out the album art - I copied the /home/user/.cache/media-art directory from my n900 to my n950, but no joy. any ideas? | 12:50 |
| khertan | it was working out of the box for me | 12:51 |
| maxw | I guess you have your album art inside the files themselves, right? | 12:51 |
| maxw | I used mussorgsky on n900 to get it all and I don't think it embeds them. | 12:52 |
| maxw | I think it puts the album art into the .cache/media-art folder...or perhaps I'm mistaken. | 12:53 |
| spenap | maxw, mussorgsky is being ported to the N9(50) | 12:56 |
| spenap | I'll try to drag the develper to this channel, one sec | 12:56 |
| maxw | actually, I have a meeting in a few minutes... | 12:56 |
| maxw | :/ | 12:56 |
| spenap | well, he went to have lunch | 12:57 |
| maxw | I'd love to pick it up again after that though | 12:57 |
| spenap | so you'll have to talk later :) | 12:57 |
| maxw | oh, good :) | 12:57 |
| maxw | I guess it could work out well then | 12:57 |
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| frade_ | did anybody mention mussorgsky? | 12:57 |
| spenap | :D | 12:57 |
| spenap | maxw, ^ | 12:57 |
| frade_ | well, mussorgsky in QML is on its way | 12:58 |
| frade_ | (qmlui branch in the garage) | 12:58 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: ping | 12:59 |
| spenap | frade_, maxw is having a meeting now, so you can talk later | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: pong | 12:59 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: I've grabbed the meego-de-camera source, but can't really see how one would add in recogniser functionality for e.g. barcodes; did you have any specific thoughts when you were asking about it last week? | 13:00 |
| lardman | certainly I can't see why one would want it as a qml component as it looks like the nitty gritty is still done much lower down in, presumably, C++ code | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: agreed, i didn't get too much into it, but i had thought about using zbar-qt and then displaying somehow in the qml | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | or every 3 seconds snapshot and run zbar-qt on it | 13:01 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: display would work fine in qml, but it's how to plumb it into the graphics pipeline | 13:01 |
| lardman | there are gst decoder elements, however they are very cpu intensive, so you'd not want them running inline unless you could cheaply decide whether a frame is likely to contain a barcode | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | for my purpose i just want random pickups, ie, once in a while look for a tag | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | so if i hold my device steady for 2-3 secs at a tag, it's likely to see it | 13:03 |
| lardman | sure | 13:03 |
| lardman | live video? | 13:03 |
| lardman | does it do something else too, other than barcode decoding? | 13:04 |
| lardman | therefore will the extra cpu be in line with other processing that's occuring anyway | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | i guess i should do a proper writeup of what i'm trying to accomplish :P | 13:05 |
| lardman | :) | 13:05 |
| lardman | well let me know as then I can see how that fits in with what I'm planning | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 13:05 |
| lardman | even just a few lines scribbled in an email/pm | 13:06 |
| Stskeeps | after work i'll spend some time on it | 13:06 |
| lardman | cool | 13:06 |
| alterego | Tbh, showing video when reading barcodes isn't exactly necessary' a few stills taken every now and then would suffice. | 13:06 |
| lardman | alterego: help with aiming though | 13:06 |
| lardman | and also live video looks nicer than <10fps, but yes I quite agree | 13:06 |
| alterego | Yes, but there's nothing stopping you from having a viewfinder, you just don't need to process the actual video for codes. | 13:07 |
| lardman | having to support ~30fps is a pita as some decoders can't keep up | 13:07 |
| lardman | indeed, but it makes the code more complex | 13:07 |
| lardman | and you then need to trade off how hard the code searches for a barcode in a given frame (which takes longer) vs keeping up with the framerate | 13:08 |
| alterego | I'd probably use 2 pipelkines. | 13:08 |
| lardman | that is what mBarcode does | 13:08 |
| lardman | though mBarcode also uses two different decoders, which means you either need 3 pipelines, which is slow, or you need to use threads for the decoders, which is the option I eventuallt chose | 13:09 |
| lardman | Moving to a single deocder (e.g. ZXing) would make life easier in some ways | 13:09 |
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| MohammadAG | lardman, why rewrite it in QML though? | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | you could do the settings UI and other stuff in QML, the viewfinder window can stay the same | 13:30 |
| lardman | MohammadAG: it's a question of how to provide a barcode scanning component that can be used easily | 13:31 |
| lardman | but yeah one option is to wrap the viewfinder etc so people can embed it | 13:31 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, I meant you can keep the existing code for the viewfinder | 13:32 |
| MohammadAG | there's no point in rewriting that in QML, waste of time | 13:32 |
| lardman | though scanning from a buffer rather than the component owning the video pipeline might also be appealing, and I can't see how that can be done with qml easily | 13:32 |
| lardman | MohammadAG: yep, s/rewrite/wrap | 13:32 |
| MohammadAG | rewrite everything in QML, except the viewfinder | 13:32 |
| MohammadAG | now to figure out why my N900 is maxing out LED currents | 13:32 |
| lardman | Well rewrite the ui you mean, I can't see QML working well for threads and plugins | 13:33 |
| MohammadAG | exactly, so why change it from pure Qt | 13:33 |
| MohammadAG | you could do thing like application settings in QML, if you need a fancier look | 13:34 |
| MohammadAG | or move to MTF | 13:34 |
| leinir | mtf's deprecated though... | 13:34 |
| * lardman wonders if he can wait for file creation events | 13:37 | |
| lardman | like have mBarcode wait for jpegs to be created in the DCIM dir? | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | inotify? | 13:38 |
| lardman | hmm, thanks | 13:39 |
| frals | qfilewatcher or somthing if you are going the qt path ;) | 13:41 |
| lardman | ah cool, thanks frals | 13:41 |
| frals | qfilesystemwatcher even :) | 13:42 |
| lardman | so much easier with the internet and people to ask questions of | 13:44 |
| * lardman undestands he should have broadband connected this week.... | 13:45 | |
| frals | hehe :) | 13:51 |
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| * SpeedEvil suspects lardman is guilty like many of us of http://xkcd.com/903/ | 14:07 | |
| lardman | lol | 14:08 |
| lardman | well certainly it's painful trying to write code from scratch without having examples available | 14:08 |
| * lardman is currently cursing Qt's model view stuff | 14:09 | |
| frals | SpeedEvil: :D | 14:10 |
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| TheBootroo | hi | 14:33 |
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| Venemo | good afternoon | 14:33 |
| Venemo | I'm on just another train trip, and it upset me that there is no IRC client on da N950... | 14:34 |
| Venemo | so I started making one :) | 14:34 |
| TheBootroo | i'm developping an abstraction class for managing user interfaces on different qt mobile platforms, at the moment, S60, S^3, Maemo5, MeeGo and Harmattan, so i need some information about the last oe | 14:34 |
| TheBootroo | *one | 14:34 |
| Venemo | it's fun, but my laptop battery will die soon. :( | 14:34 |
| Venemo | TheBootroo, what kind of info do you need? | 14:34 |
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| TheBootroo | Venemo: i woudl like to know first if Harmaatan uses MeeGoTouchCompositor as window manager ? | 14:35 |
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| TheBootroo | Venemo: are you right ? | 14:37 |
| Venemo | TheBootroo, yes, Harmattan uses the same software that is under the MeeGo Handset UX | 14:37 |
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| TheBootroo | Venemo: ok | 14:37 |
| Venemo | sorry, I'm on a train and connected to the internet through the N950 | 14:37 |
| TheBootroo | because the usual window flags for Symbian and maemo screen orientation policy no more work on n950 | 14:37 |
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| TheBootroo | the window is always started in landscape and stay in it | 14:37 |
| TheBootroo | so what flag should i use to lock portrait/locklandscape/ autoorientation ? | 14:38 |
| frals | dont have the kboard out and try again | 14:38 |
| TheBootroo | frals: keybord is closed and device is held vertically, but the screen rotates jsut before the app starts | 14:39 |
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| TheBootroo | so the switcher/menu/ statusbar are in landscape then, which is bad | 14:39 |
| Venemo_ | sorry, it's disconnecting me all the time | 14:39 |
| TheBootroo | Venemo_: [13:37] <TheBootroo> because the usual window flags for Symbian and maemo screen orientation policy no more work on n950 [13:37] == Wirta [~Wirta@nemein.hietalahti.nemein.net] has joined #harmattan [13:37] <TheBootroo> the window is always started in landscape and stay in it [13:38] <TheBootroo> so what flag should i use to lock portrait/locklandscape/ autoorientation ? [13:38] <frals> dont have the kboard out and try a | 14:40 |
| TheBootroo | any idea ? | 14:40 |
| Venemo_ | hmm | 14:40 |
| Venemo_ | close the hw keyboard | 14:40 |
| Venemo_ | then try to rotate it | 14:40 |
| Venemo_ | all my QML apps rotate just fine automatically, without needing me to write any code | 14:41 |
| TheBootroo | Venemo_: the hw kb is always closed and the device is held vertical on a kick stand | 14:41 |
| Mek | I think you do need to use the qt components PageWindow or wahtever it was called for orientation to work? | 14:41 |
| TheBootroo | Venemo_: plain QML or Harmattan Components ? because the last is ok but plain QML doesn't rotate at all ... | 14:41 |
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| Mek | at least when I tried, even a Sheet that doesn't have a Page as (visual)Parent won't rotate properly | 14:41 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: since i dev a cross plateform absctraction libary i can't base on harmattan only components, so i need to find how to implement the windows manager flag for orientation | 14:42 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: so i don't use Harmattan components, i'm developping my own in plain QML and C++ | 14:43 |
| Venemo_ | TheBootroo, is it a QML app? | 14:43 |
| TheBootroo | Venemo_: a QtDeclarative one exactly | 14:43 |
| Venemo_ | TheBootroo, I use MeeGo Qt Components | 14:43 |
| Mek | well, in theory using qt components should be cross platform, but for now there is just harmattan and symbian components around I think | 14:43 |
| TheBootroo | i've already implemented scene rotation, based on QtMobility's QOrientationFilter | 14:44 |
| TheBootroo | but the windows manager beleives the app is in landscape so he keeps the rest of system ui in landscape | 14:44 |
| TheBootroo | bad | 14:44 |
| Venemo_ | or whatever it's called | 14:44 |
| TheBootroo | Venemo_: i see what you talk about | 14:45 |
| TheBootroo | but i need to integrate the right code in my class to make it work on harmattan but too on meego maemo symbian | 14:45 |
| TheBootroo | ... | 14:45 |
| TheBootroo | so i looking for the magical bits to inform the window manager that my app is no more on landscape mode | 14:46 |
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| maxw | is the mussorgsky guy back? | 14:59 |
| frade_ | maxw, yes | 14:59 |
| maxw | hi...I know you ;) | 15:00 |
| Mek | TheBootroo: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/mdeclarativescreen.cpp#line145 that bit maybe? | 15:00 |
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| maxw | frade_: I was wondering how to get my n900 album art working on n950 | 15:01 |
| lcuk | maxw, heh I just asked a question on #meego relating to albumart | 15:01 |
| lcuk | or rather thumbnialing and remembering that albumart is extracted in similarish manner | 15:02 |
| maxw | it'd be really cool to have a tumbler plugin for this ;) | 15:02 |
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| maxw | lcuk, frade_: any pointers for how to get album art working? it seems like some have it working 'out of the box'... | 15:07 |
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| frade_ | maxw, the spec has changed between fremantle and harmattan | 15:12 |
| maxw | ok, so what is the best approach? | 15:12 |
| frade_ | in fremantle the filename was "md5("") - md5 (album)" | 15:12 |
| frade_ | now is md5 (artist) - md5 (album) | 15:12 |
| maxw | hrm | 15:13 |
| frade_ | maxw, either you put the album-art as cover.png in the album folders... | 15:13 |
| frade_ | or you wait a bit for mussorgsky for harmattan :) | 15:13 |
| maxw | sounds like a script is needed | 15:13 |
| lcuk | frade_, \o/ | 15:13 |
| frade_ | actually I could build a .deb that you can install | 15:13 |
| frade_ | the part of downloading album-art is working | 15:13 |
| maxw | sure...don't mind being a tester ;) | 15:13 |
| frade_ | and if you do it with the media player running the thumbnails are updated "live" | 15:14 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: partially solves the problem : i can informe the window manager taht the window is at -90 angle, but it makes some glitches appear when trying to swipe in portrait, but at least status bar is on top | 15:14 |
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| TheBootroo | Mek: how can i do a screenshot on N950, since Ctrl+Shift+P doesn't seems to work in my fullscreen app ? | 15:16 |
| spenap | TheBootroo, widgets gallery will do that | 15:17 |
| TheBootroo | spenap: do what ? | 15:17 |
| spenap | widgets gallery -> debug tools -> take a screenshot | 15:17 |
| TheBootroo | spenap: ohh ok | 15:17 |
| spenap | you can set a delay and that's it | 15:17 |
| TheBootroo | amaaaaazin' | 15:17 |
| spenap | really useful | 15:18 |
| spenap | you should check this widgets gallery app | 15:18 |
| TheBootroo | yep | 15:18 |
| spenap | because it also provides all this stuff about bounding rectangles, layouts, sizes, styles... | 15:18 |
| spenap | that's under the "information display" section | 15:19 |
| spenap | I'm not sure if that part works with qml applications | 15:19 |
| spenap | it works with mtf | 15:19 |
| TheBootroo | spenap: all debug stuff for geometry has been already implemented in my own lib | 15:19 |
| TheBootroo | and my own libuses QtDeclarative | 15:19 |
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| spenap | :) | 15:20 |
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| TheBootroo | spenap: wait a second i post a screenshot | 15:22 |
| spenap | not going anywhere, TheBootroo, so take your time | 15:23 |
| TheBootroo | http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/72/20110725141825.png | 15:24 |
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| TheBootroo | its a test app for my lib, using test icons | 15:24 |
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| TheBootroo | basically you initialize a MWTk_Window with title and icon, start adding pages with 'addPage(QString page_id); and then fill apges with toolbar buttons, scrollable entries and all | 15:25 |
| TheBootroo | toolbars and pages already work, rotation too | 15:25 |
| TheBootroo | (with animation) | 15:25 |
| TheBootroo | scrolling works too, i now have to developp small basic basic widgets to add in scrollable view and add them to my MWTk_ViewManager class | 15:26 |
| spenap | so your idea is to provide some alternatives to QML? or I didn't get you too well | 15:26 |
| spenap | because that feels like really a lot of work | 15:27 |
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| TheBootroo | not an alternative to QML, a cross plateform mobile components for QtDeclarative, usable fully from C++ (for persons like me who don't like typing QML code) and which can be used the same way on every system (you can even test your app on your windows/linux box) | 15:28 |
| TheBootroo | spenap: the hardest work was already done last week | 15:28 |
| TheBootroo | ;-) | 15:28 |
| spenap | TheBootroo, that's nice :) | 15:29 |
| spenap | do you have a project website? | 15:29 |
| lardman | I do wish it were possible to group .cpp/.h files in Qt creator | 15:29 |
| TheBootroo | basically i provide a full C++ api to create in a few lines a stacked pages window filled from static and/or dynamic data, stylable with css-like syntaxis... | 15:29 |
| harbaum | TheBootroo: Ah, and add a layout engine and be api compatible with plain qt ... | 15:29 |
| achipa | lardman: that is a template. I do wish it were possible to $FEATURE in Qt creator | 15:30 |
| achipa | :) | 15:30 |
| lcuk | lardman, vb.net - no header files! | 15:30 |
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| TheBootroo | spenap: i have a gitorious (but not really up to date because i can only push the night, 22 port is blocked at work ...) | 15:30 |
| lcuk | write your class and internally it makes headers | 15:30 |
| lcuk | :D | 15:30 |
| spenap | TheBootroo, since besides all the hard work coding you'll need to attract developers | 15:30 |
| spenap | I'd start by doing that | 15:30 |
| spenap | :), some nice website | 15:31 |
| achipa | I do find it fascinating however how much people are willing to work in order to avoid work | 15:31 |
| TheBootroo | harbaum: not really, but a have a smart layout system, adapting automattically the components matching orientation and window size | 15:31 |
| spenap | explaining the advantages you provide and showing some screenshots in different platforms | 15:31 |
| TheBootroo | spenap: i have a demo apps website but apps were coded using my older QWidget based lib | 15:31 |
| TheBootroo | but its nice : | 15:31 |
| TheBootroo | http://modern-os.projects.servhome.org/mobileApps/ | 15:31 |
| TheBootroo | achipa: its true, i made alot of apps with same ui, and i plan in doing more, so i regroup my own created classes in a public api lib, which is good for community | 15:32 |
| TheBootroo | si if you dont like, don't use it, but if you like, it will save you a lot of time | 15:33 |
| lardman | lcuk: I don't mind header files, would just like to be able to group the files into different sections so I know whether I'm working on the UI or the db or this/that/the other | 15:33 |
| * lcuk nods | 15:34 | |
| TheBootroo | spenap: i will push an update on gitorious tonight which fixed a rotation bug on N950 | 15:34 |
| lardman | doesn't help that the files are all lower case, makes it harder to read them | 15:34 |
| achipa | hey, don't get me wrong, I like all sorts of projects, even if completely useless (which yours clearly isn't), it's just that is seems to be going against the same mountain the trolls tried to climb and then said 'too much compromises' | 15:34 |
| TheBootroo | lardman: just make your sources physically in subfolders as src/ui src/db ... etc | 15:35 |
| lardman | ah, that's a good idea | 15:35 |
| lardman | thanks | 15:35 |
| TheBootroo | achipa: i don't make compromise i try to give the mobile apps developpement a new speed, avoiding the qml wheel reinventing, it will be done one time for all | 15:36 |
| spenap | TheBootroo, well, I'm finding myself quite comfortable when using QML, so I'm not the target for your work (at least at the moment), but I won't discourage you: it looks very nice and advanced already | 15:36 |
| achipa | TheBootroo: the biggest problem on the long run that Nok does take QML seriously, and that's why most of the actual declarative functionality is so buried/private (=compatibility level kept on QML) | 15:36 |
| TheBootroo | lardman: ur welcome | 15:36 |
| TheBootroo | achipa: QML is based on qtdeclarative so i will only need a few fixed to keep it working | 15:36 |
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| achipa | TheBootroo: what I'm saying is that qtdeclarative exposes very little publicly, and that is for a reason | 15:37 |
| TheBootroo | achipa: and i use only this few, really | 15:37 |
| TheBootroo | achipa: i limit myself to x, y, width, height, anchors, and raw QPainter | 15:38 |
| TheBootroo | so it must work for age | 15:38 |
| TheBootroo | achipa: that the reason i'm rewriting my old qwidget lib | 15:38 |
| TheBootroo | elsewhere i would have kept it in state | 15:38 |
| Mek | well, raw qpainter is what is going away when qml moves to scenegraph in qt5 | 15:39 |
| achipa | don't let me discourage you (hey, I'm the guy who is writing a scheduler in QML for kicks so should not really be taken seriously anyway... ;) ) | 15:39 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: will not be hard to move to other class | 15:40 |
| TheBootroo | and i don't think qpainter will go, it will only use opengl backend | 15:41 |
| TheBootroo | QPainter is the part of QtGui which will be kept in Qt5 | 15:41 |
| TheBootroo | only QWidget based things will go to Qt Widgets deprecated modules | 15:41 |
| Mek | well, scenegraph is supposed to replace qpainter for qml; qpainter itself will of course stay for qwidget and "old" qml | 15:42 |
| Mek | i'm not sure exactly how scenegraph and drawing your own stuff will work together | 15:42 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: scenegraph doesn't have a proper drawing methods, scenegraph is the equivalent of qgraphicsScene, so it will use QPainter class for painting instructions | 15:44 |
| TheBootroo | so not only for old things | 15:45 |
| TheBootroo | scenegraph is not a new painting language, only an optimized scene manager | 15:45 |
| TheBootroo | which set opengl as default backend | 15:45 |
| TheBootroo | but frontend stays QPainter | 15:45 |
| Mek | uhm, but the point of scenegraph was to among other thigns re-arrange the order in which stuff is painted I thought? which is not possible with a qpainter-like api. But i might have misunderstood | 15:45 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: you can already do that with qpainter | 15:46 |
| Mek | "One might question were QPainter fits with this. The answer is that it doesn’t – not directly anyway. There is an example, paint2D, which shows one way of integrating the two. Another way would be to paint directly into the context of the scene graph before or after the scene graph renders." from one of the blog posts about scengraph... | 15:46 |
| TheBootroo | and new qml will use declarative things too, so QtDeclarative will not disappear, only new things (tons i hope) will be added to the currently very poort api | 15:47 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: so what classe you can use to draw on scenegraph ? not directely opengl is hope ? | 15:48 |
| Mek | http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/31/qml-scene-graph-in-master/ | 15:48 |
| Mek | it also has a tiny bit about Intergration with QPainter | 15:48 |
| TheBootroo | i like the qpainter class, i don't want it to disappear and us to be forced to do plain OpenGl | 15:48 |
| Mek | (apparently there is a QSGPaintedItem that you can insert in the graph, that will use qpainter internally | 15:49 |
| TheBootroo | i would be a real pain in the ass, i don't develop desktop/mobile apps with same api that game developpers uses... | 15:49 |
| lcuk | at the same time, qpainter is awesome and qpainter is awful | 15:49 |
| lcuk | it has a nice api | 15:49 |
| lcuk | but is tricky to use it optimally | 15:49 |
| mgedmin | the multitude of Qt-ish APIs I hear mentioned here befuddles me | 15:51 |
| mgedmin | or maybe confuzzles | 15:51 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, ++ | 15:51 |
| TheBootroo | Mek: it don't say me what api i will use. i hope we yet have a c++ api, not mandatory to add qml objects with lots of properties ? | 15:51 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, you mean Qconfuzzle | 15:51 |
| Mek | oh yes, there will be a c++ api, it will just be rather different from the current qml c++ api afaik | 15:52 |
| TheBootroo | QonfuZZles Mee -->Go | 15:52 |
| Mek | and there is apparently an api similar to QDeclarativeItem, where it will render the item to a QImage, and then include the image as a texture in the scenegraph | 15:53 |
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| djszapi | lbt_away: total KO again: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan | 16:48 |
| djszapi | this time, at 98 % | 16:48 |
| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: hey hey hey ping | 16:51 |
| djszapi | MohammadAG: do you think there is a way I could build kdelibs on maemo.org ? | 16:52 |
| rm_work | hrmrm i think i may have an idea what is causing the pyRadio thread issues, and being stuck at work is annoying because i can't test my fix :P | 16:52 |
| djszapi | OBS has been incapable for weeks. | 16:52 |
| frals | djszapi: does the build work locally? | 16:53 |
| djszapi | frals: your mean ? | 16:53 |
| rm_work | like in SB? | 16:53 |
| djszapi | Well, that could be another option if I can publish my local build in my repository... | 16:53 |
| frals | djszapi: are you able to build the package when using your own machine via osc? | 16:53 |
| djszapi | SB != osc | 16:54 |
| djszapi | and yes, it works in chroot by usin osc | 16:54 |
| frals | ok, just checking :) | 16:54 |
| djszapi | lbt_away: Could I publish kdelibs without the OBS building hell ? | 16:54 |
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| djszapi | frals: maemo.org used 60 GB, OBS uses 6 GB memory :) | 16:59 |
| djszapi | slight difference :) | 16:59 |
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| RST38h | Anyone knows of a good example implementing settings page in QtQuick? | 17:07 |
| djszapi | Settings application on N950 ? | 17:07 |
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| wazd | Heya all | 17:08 |
| mgedmin | djszapi, is it open source? | 17:08 |
| RST38h | Ok. Anyone with a more useful answer? | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 17:09 |
| djszapi | mgedmin: no idea, but the Ui is a good example. It is really not that hard in QML anyways :) | 17:09 |
| wazd | My n950's phone UI has collapsed completely :) :( Any sane solutions to bring it back without reflashing? :) | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | no, just reflash | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:09 |
| wazd | Thought so :) | 17:09 |
| RST38h | reflash indeed | 17:10 |
| wazd | I'm @ the country right now, not the best place to do that :) | 17:10 |
| frals | how did it "collapse completely"? :) | 17:11 |
| wazd | But otherwise the device is just awesome. Infinite kudos to all harmattan team :) | 17:11 |
| wazd | It just disappeared | 17:11 |
| frals | o_O | 17:11 |
| mgedmin | so, you get a black screen only? | 17:11 |
| wazd | Black screen during the phonecall | 17:11 |
| wazd | Yep | 17:11 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 17:11 |
| frals | and reboot didnt fix it? | 17:12 |
| mgedmin | I haven't even tried making phonecalls yet | 17:12 |
| wazd | Nope | 17:12 |
| mgedmin | today 3g just disappeared -- well, the entire gsm | 17:12 |
| mgedmin | had to reboot to get it back | 17:12 |
| frals | sounds slightly bad | 17:12 |
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| wazd | I still can make phonecalls (kinda) but it's annoying to reboot the device to hang it :D | 17:13 |
| mgedmin | can't you ask the other party to hang up? | 17:13 |
| mgedmin | I assume fn-backspace doesn't work either? | 17:13 |
| wazd | Didn't try it | 17:14 |
| * RST38h wonders when the next firmware update is coming | 17:14 | |
| wazd | Imve tried to close shis window via app manager | 17:15 |
| RST38h | this one is kinda too broken to be used on the day to day basis | 17:15 |
| wazd | But it opens again | 17:15 |
| mgedmin | RST38h, when the N9 is finally released, IIRC | 17:15 |
| wazd | In a month I guess | 17:15 |
| mgedmin | I've heard September mentioned, but this is probably just a rumour | 17:16 |
| wazd | August 20th | 17:16 |
| wazd | Exact date :) | 17:16 |
| wazd | At least it's the date of Moscow presentation | 17:16 |
| frals | some head of portfolio nordic marketing said 23rd september in .se at least | 17:17 |
| mgedmin | presentation doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be on sale from that day on, does it? | 17:19 |
| wazd | I heard that it will be on sale | 17:20 |
| mgedmin | awesome! | 17:21 |
| khertan | there is a place which explain the addition made in harmattan to debian package ? | 17:21 |
| * mgedmin hopes Very Hard the final firmware will support developer mode | 17:21 | |
| mgedmin | khertan, debian/changelog, probably, if I understood your question correctly | 17:21 |
| Mek | afaik it should... | 17:22 |
| wazd | Exposing N950 @ Nokia stores really does miracles :D | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | or /usr/share/doc/yourpackage/README.Debian -- but that one will be killed by docpurge on install | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | still, in the source package having a debian/README.Debian might be useful for other people who may need to update your package | 17:22 |
| Tronic | wazd: I've gotten black screen on phone app for a few times now but reboot always fixes it. I can also task switch and use other apps normally while calling. | 17:24 |
| wazd | Tronic: task switching works fine, black window is shown just instead of call ui | 17:25 |
| Tronic | Yep, same here. | 17:26 |
| wazd | Any news on browser settings btw? Will they be extended in future? :) | 17:28 |
| khertan | mgedmin, hey thanks but i mean, does there is documentation somewhere about additionnal field ? | 17:30 |
| wazd | Cause right now they look a bit sad :) | 17:30 |
| khertan | mgedmin, like the one added for maemo source package :) | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | khertan, what additional field? | 17:30 |
| khertan | mgedmin, this is the question does there is some, like Bugtracker | 17:30 |
| khertan | or things like that | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | uh, you want to know what additional debian/control fields are used in harmattan? | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | if yes, look for your answer here: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Reference_documentation/Harmattan_Appendix_to_the_Debian_Policy_Manual | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | hello horizontal scrollbar in my nice irc logs *sigh*insaneurls*mutter* | 17:32 |
| khertan | hihi | 17:33 |
| khertan | thx mgedmin | 17:34 |
| crevetor | hi khertan | 17:34 |
| khertan | hum will be time to update sdist_maemo :) | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: wait til nokia adds [] to URLs and you want to reference it in wiki | 17:34 |
| khertan | hi crevetor | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# rm -rf landfill/ :-S | 17:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this friggin flasheater tool could maybe remove the crap on ^C | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | or better yet: act sensible to --help ;-P | 17:48 |
| slaine | Anyone setup a Harmattan dev env on OS X ? | 17:49 |
| slaine | trying to decided if I do it on the Mac or on my netbook | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | netbook? o.O | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | those SDKs weren't exactly humbe so for | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | humble* | 17:50 |
| slaine | DocScrutinizer: I've Fedora 15 and MeeGo 1.2 on my IdeaPad, 2GB RAM, OCZ SSD | 17:51 |
| slaine | Only put off is the screen res | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, to start with | 17:51 |
| slaine | Mac has a good screen and better keyboard, just not sure how sane it would be as a Harmattan dev host | 17:51 |
| slaine | I was contemplating VirtualBox install of linux on the Mac too | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | Qt Creator for Mac OS X exists | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | it'll be interesting to find out if it supports Harmattan as well as Linux/Windows versions | 17:53 |
| slaine | Yeah, I know, I have it here. But Qt Creator isn't the whole story | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | scratchbox, I believe, runs only under Linux | 17:53 |
| slaine | nod | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | virtualbox should work | 17:53 |
| fiferboy | Does qemu work in Mac? | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy! my new best friend ever! how about those fbreader .deb building instructions you promised me? ;) | 17:59 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: I'll put the tarball somewhere and send you a link | 17:59 |
| rm_work | any python wizards around? | 17:59 |
| fiferboy | I just do a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot on them, but the debian directory and target files are a bit hacked up :) | 17:59 |
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| rm_work | GeneralAntilles: ping | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy, where did you find the original _source_ debs? | 18:00 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: I just downloaded them from fbreader.org | 18:01 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: FBReader is a bit weird, as the tarball has a whole mess of build targets right in it, and strange scripted ways to build them | 18:02 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: To build a regular Maemo5 binary you execute the script from *OUTSIDE* scratchbox and it builds it in scratchbox o_O | 18:02 |
| mgedmin | whoa | 18:02 |
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| fiferboy | mgedmin: So what I did was hack up the scripts for building a _desktop_ debian package and executed it _within_ scratchbox | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | *nod* | 18:04 |
| wazd | 1m usd question. Does n950 have compass? :) | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | wazd, yes, it has a magnetometer | 18:04 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Once I get my devel machine turned on I'll send you the whole mess :) | 18:04 |
| wazd | Phew :) | 18:04 |
| harbaum | wazd: yes i has and it's working nicely via qtmobility | 18:04 |
| wazd | Harbaum: what a relief, cause I was nervous seeing that maps and drive don't use it :) | 18:05 |
| harbaum | wazd: My geocaching app is able to use it. and it needs less calibration than the one in my symbian c7 | 18:06 |
| mgedmin | drive not using the compass was a bit of a wtf for me too | 18:06 |
| wazd | Harbaum: OSM2Go? :) | 18:06 |
| mgedmin | ooh, please please please | 18:06 |
| harbaum | wazd: geocaching, not mapping | 18:07 |
| wazd | Harbaum: ah :) | 18:07 |
| * mgedmin currently misses: vim, FuelLog, PasswordSafe, Conboy | 18:07 | |
| mgedmin | oh, and something for weather forecasts | 18:07 |
| wazd | Omweather :P | 18:07 |
| harbaum | osm2go had few users only and with the n9 being even more a niche product i don't think a port pf osm2go makes sense | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | porting anything to harmattan doesn't make sense | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | unless we port it for ourselves | 18:08 |
| * mgedmin is not what you would call an "optimist" | 18:08 | |
| wazd | :) | 18:08 |
| harbaum | nah, porting stuff i frequently use myself does make sense | 18:08 |
| wazd | I need weather anyway :) | 18:08 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/sources/fbreader_hacked_harmattan.tar.gz | 18:08 |
| harbaum | egoist developers ... | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | I would use osm2go more often if it let me to just start editing | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | without having to go through complicated multi-page wizards to create "projects" | 18:09 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: It isn't a make clean'ed build, but if you clean it you should be able to diff against the orig source and see my changes | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy, thanks! | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | (in advance) | 18:09 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: I can link you to the original source if you need it | 18:09 |
| harbaum | mgedmin: then you'd need to have a clever idea how to deal with the multi-gigabyte database osm has in the background | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | I've a git checkout | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | which means diffing is going to be noisy | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | yes, a link to the exact version you downloaded would be helpful | 18:10 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Ok, the version this one uses is 0.12.10 | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | harbaum, steal the approach potlatch uses | 18:10 |
| harbaum | mgedmin: of course "instant editing" would have been great .... | 18:10 |
| fiferboy | http://fbreader.org/fbreader-sources-0.12.10.tgz | 18:10 |
| harbaum | potlatch imho has a direct connection to the database | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | or just a big button "edit 1 square km centered around my current GPS position" | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | good point about the unfair advantages potlatch has | 18:11 |
| harbaum | mgedmin: yepp, something like that was supposed to happen. but the effort was too big and there were few users only | 18:11 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: Let me know if you manage to fix things up! :) | 18:11 |
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| mgedmin | fiferboy, I still need the tarball with your changes ;) | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | so far I managed to build fbreader (desktop) in scratchbox, but haven't figured out how to build .debs | 18:12 |
| fiferboy | mgedmin: In my fbreader_hacked_harmattan (linked before) run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" in scratchbox | 18:14 |
| mgedmin | oh, I missed one link then | 18:14 |
| fiferboy | 11:08 < fiferboy> mgedmin: http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/sources/fbreader_hacked_harmattan.tar.gz | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | in the middle of the osm2go side discussion | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | thanks! | 18:15 |
| fiferboy | NP | 18:15 |
| SpeedEvil | osm2go is awesome | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | yes it is | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | potlatch has a sligfhtly different interface - not more direct | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | osm2go is ideal for walking around and assigning building numbers to buildings | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | that you've drawn before with potlatch from an aerial photo | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | You can compress XML _very_ well | 18:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Look atound the osm wiki for binary format | 18:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - osm2go - developer said 'not enough user response - moved on' - on the mailinng list a while back | 18:18 |
| wazd | I have that crazy idea bout widgets. What if you'll be able to tap the screen with three fingers, current app will fade to back and widgets will appear? :P | 18:19 |
| wazd | Am I insane? | 18:20 |
| crevetor | wazd: that'd be neat | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | a better exploitation of MT has been suggested several times | 18:20 |
| crevetor | or something like the swipe gesture but with 2 fingers | 18:21 |
| wazd | It works just as one | 18:21 |
| crevetor | Actually no that would be hard to do with one hand | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it seems to me harmattan could also run on single-touch devices, which is kinda errr. :-S | 18:21 |
| crevetor | Maybe replace the useless swipe from bottom (quick launch) with that feature | 18:21 |
| lcuk | wazd which widgets page? | 18:22 |
| lcuk | (which would seemingly be more required than how to vulcan grip it | 18:22 |
| wazd | Lcuk: that doesn't exist yet :D | 18:22 |
| wazd | Crevetor: swipe is closed :( | 18:23 |
| lcuk | swipe isn't rocket science :P | 18:23 |
| khertan | is there a way to use an obs home project as a repository ? | 18:23 |
| lcuk | the n900 has basics of it | 18:23 |
| lcuk | desktop swiping | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean if they don't need mt, then pretty please build a device with a decent r-ts for me :-D | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, N950 with r-ts, that'd be awesome | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw: you noticed N950 has no more lanjard/keyring fixture hole? | 18:26 |
| mgedmin | am I the only one who prefers the capacitative touchscreen? | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | the poor poor Japanese | 18:26 |
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| rm_work | mgedmin: possibly >_> | 18:27 |
| rm_work | i'm hating it | 18:27 |
| rm_work | want my good resistive back <_< | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: sorry, this c-ts is crap in my book. Doesn't react to fingernails (and other non sausage like objects), way too imprecise, even doesn't notice finger touches when you don't 'earth' the device case with another finger or hand | 18:28 |
| rm_work | my problem is my finger can be like 1/4" away from the screen and it clicks things anyway | 18:29 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, do you like *anything* about this device? | 18:29 |
| rm_work | i'm constantly having to close apps i ran by mistake | 18:29 |
| rm_work | or rather, that IT ran without me choosing them | 18:29 |
| lcuk | rm_work, "these aren't the buttons you are looking for" | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, it's ultimately shiny, fast, sufficient ram | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | sufficently good screen | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nifty though weak slider mech | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 4 row kbd (though jury is still out on the quality) | 18:30 |
| rm_work | yeah i wish they'd just slimmed down the n900 and added ram and increased clockspeed (which is what they did MOSTLY, but they could have left it at that without changing the LCD and flash memory size) | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: how could you get wrong my statement >>damn, N950 with r-ts, that'd be awesome<< ? | 18:31 |
| rm_work | or changing the keyboard :/ | 18:31 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, i know | 18:32 |
| lcuk | that device already exists though :P n900 | 18:32 |
| rm_work | khertan: yes? | 18:32 |
| khertan | rm_work, ? | 18:32 |
| rm_work | khertan: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/Development_repos | 18:32 |
| khertan | ah thx | 18:32 |
| rm_work | see examples from there | 18:32 |
| rm_work | if you add it to the wiki, it'll even show up on PackRat :) | 18:32 |
| khertan | lol ... there is my repository in example | 18:32 |
| khertan | mouarf | 18:32 |
| rm_work | lol | 18:33 |
| khertan | ouch ... strange sourcelist on harmattan | 18:34 |
| rm_work | yes | 18:35 |
| rm_work | it changed a lot :/ | 18:35 |
| rm_work | weird | 18:35 |
| alterego | Anyone managed to scratch their screen yet? | 18:35 |
| leinir | Nope... lots of grease (duuh), but no scratches :) | 18:35 |
| alterego | :) | 18:36 |
| alterego | Yeah, I keep having to polish it :D | 18:36 |
| khertan | no scratch yet | 18:36 |
| alterego | Keep the screen nice and shiny. | 18:36 |
| khertan | it s a bit hard to found a screen protector for a device which didn't exist :) | 18:36 |
| lcuk | i most smears seem to come not on the screen but on the camera | 18:36 |
| alterego | If I wash my hands every ten minutes then no grease .. | 18:36 |
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| khertan | RAHRAHRarhahrah !!! No setuptools ! | 18:37 |
| khertan | bloodyhell !!!! | 18:37 |
| lcuk | language | 18:38 |
| macmaN | so anyone seen aegis-loader puking with "error parsing /etc/passwd" when trying to deploy from qt creator? | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | no | 18:38 |
| macmaN | the deploy process just leaves some dpkg thing hanging on the device then | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | did you edit your /etc/passwd? | 18:39 |
| macmaN | no i havent afaik | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | hmm | 18:39 |
| macmaN | havent installed anything either that has afaik | 18:39 |
| macmaN | if i just ssh in and do dpkg -i manually, then ctrl+c when aegis-loader hangs, then install goes on and finishes successfully | 18:39 |
| macmaN | but i cant ctrl+c from qt creator | 18:39 |
| macmaN | yey X-Fade gave me an OBS account | 18:40 |
| macmaN | maybe i can wgetpaste now | 18:40 |
| macmaN | on n950 | 18:40 |
| macmaN | so i can properly pastebin my /etc/passwd | 18:40 |
| macmaN | build wgetpaste* | 18:42 |
| khertan | whouhou harmattan c-obs build log is full of :" No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" | 18:49 |
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| kimju | khertan, just ignore those lines | 18:50 |
| khertan | a bit difficult :) | 18:51 |
| khertan | i need to look between them what's my package error :) | 18:51 |
| kimju | it is a bit noisy, yes.. :) | 18:51 |
| kimju | download raw, grep -v AEGIS ? | 18:51 |
| khertan | :) | 18:53 |
| khertan | it s a solution :) | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | n950 claims it's connected to my wifi | 18:59 |
| mgedmin | my wifi router claims there's active no dhcp lease for my n950's mac | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | weird, I often see this with one of my N900 | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | not for N950 though | 19:00 |
| mgedmin | oh, because it's a static lease so it doesn't end up in /tmp/dhcpd.leases | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | the n950 became pingable the instance I launched Web on it | 19:01 |
| khertan | rm_work, hum all my package can't be installed, i didn't get error | 19:01 |
| khertan | any idea ? | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | and now my router can ping it, but my laptop can't | 19:01 |
| mgedmin | grr | 19:01 |
| khertan | LOL apt-get update have a nice bug | 19:01 |
| khertan | LOL apt-get have a nice bug | 19:02 |
| rcg | well, whoever said that there are performance issues wrt the harmattan builder definately told the truth | 19:02 |
| khertan | when it ask you if you want to install unauthentified package in french the answer is oui / Non | 19:02 |
| flux | mgedmin, on n900 I've seen the same with certain wlan ap's and the default power saving | 19:02 |
| khertan | but accepted answer is Yes / No | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | is it just my weird neighbours or are you also constantly seeing an open hidden-SSID WLAN? | 19:02 |
| khertan | everything other than y will fallback to no | 19:03 |
| khertan | :) | 19:03 |
| rm_work | lol | 19:03 |
| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, I assumed you always had that option in the UI | 19:03 |
| flux | khertan, are you trying to do something stupid?-) | 19:03 |
| khertan | flux, nope just install a package from my obs repository | 19:03 |
| khertan | :) | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: ooh, so it's a config shortcut, not a scan result? | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how weird is THAT? | 19:04 |
| mgedmin | I assume otherwise there'd be no way to connect to a hidden wlan, maybe... ? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | new? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, no 'new', k | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | puzzling concept | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | weird wording | 19:06 |
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| rcg | DocScrutinizer: http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Tone_and_Language.html | 19:07 |
| rcg | well, apparently your phone nowadays speaks with you and vice versa | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, is there WLAN mentioned? I've seen that page | 19:07 |
| rcg | nope | 19:08 |
| rcg | just saw you wondering about wording and such.. and i just stumbled across this today | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rcg: yeah, it's kinda apple'ish - I think such guidelines are much needed | 19:09 |
| rcg | next time scotty travels back in time he _can_ talk to his smartphone: "smartphone:..." | 19:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | placing a "Hidden WLAN" with allegedly full signal strength into the list of scan results is puzzling like hell though | 19:09 |
| rcg | lol yeah indeed | 19:09 |
| alterego | I always think it sees something with that being there. | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | according to their own guidelines this must read "click for new WLAN" | 19:11 |
| rcg | DocScrutinizer: well, some ui guidlines are not that bad imho | 19:12 |
| rcg | heh probably | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | agree, what I said above | 19:12 |
| rcg | yep | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | apple knows one thing: writing GUI styleguides | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's foundation of their success | 19:13 |
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| rcg | besides keeping the api consistent or at least not changing the UI framework etc. with each new phone.. but that's probably a different story | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically ALL other GUIs failed on publishing good styleguides | 19:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rcg: nah, that's exactly the same story | 19:15 |
| SpeedEvil | s/publishing/publishing and enforcing/ | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 19:16 |
| fiferboy | alterego: I've scratched my screen :( | 19:16 |
| alterego | Oh no :( | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-o | 19:16 |
| alterego | How'd you manage that? | 19:16 |
| * Stskeeps managed to as well | 19:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer | the magical gorilla glass? | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | though not badly | 19:16 |
| fiferboy | alterego: Pocket carrying | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | i don't think the developer device has gorilla glass :) | 19:16 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: I'm not convinced it is gorrilla glass :P | 19:16 |
| fiferboy | It is only noticable on an angle and mostly just with the screen off | 19:16 |
| alterego | It feels like plastic to me. | 19:16 |
| frals | does the n950 have gorilla glass really? | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | NFC what's gorilla glass | 19:16 |
| fiferboy | I would say it isn't gorilla glass, since my phone with gorilla glass can take MUCH more punishment easily | 19:17 |
| mgedmin | glass polished by hand by trained gorillas | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 19:17 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:17 |
| alterego | fiferboy: it's definitely plastic imo | 19:17 |
| fiferboy | alterego: Yeah, no I need to find a screen protector | 19:17 |
| alterego | It doesn't conduct heat like glass, and it doesn't sound like glass when tapped. | 19:17 |
| fiferboy | s/no/now/ | 19:17 |
| infobot | fiferboy meant: alterego: Yeah, now I need to find a screen protector | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure it's no molten silicate | 19:17 |
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| rcg | DocScrutinizer: hehe, or even that.. gui wise this qml stuff actually "feels" quite good for now | 19:18 |
| alterego | fiferboy: zehjotkah had a line on those. | 19:18 |
| fiferboy | For now I am carrying it in the (slightly oversized) sleeve from my N810 :) | 19:18 |
| rm_work | yeah i gave up with my n900 and just started putting it straight in my pocket | 19:19 |
| rm_work | and it was fine for over a year | 19:19 |
| rm_work | so i'm not worried :/ | 19:19 |
| fiferboy | rm_work: My N900 has been fine in my pocket as well | 19:19 |
| khertan | obs is pretty slow | 19:19 |
| alterego | Well, I don't keep anything in the same pocket as my phone. | 19:19 |
| alterego | :) | 19:19 |
| rcg | khertan: it is | 19:19 |
| rm_work | not like i'm putting it in the same pocket as my keys :P | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't find cheap nice "italian style" holsters anymore | 19:19 |
| alterego | So hopefully it wont get scratched up. | 19:19 |
| fiferboy | alterego: I don't either, which is why I was surprised to see a scratch | 19:20 |
| alterego | Oh :/ | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | made in China, 5€, last 6 months | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | now no more are available | 19:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fiferboy: jeans? | 19:21 |
| Tronic | I've kept N950 in my pocket for a couple of weeks and there are zero scratches so far. | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | my n900 is not scratched, exactly, but it looks as if I dropped a bit of acid on the screen | 19:21 |
| Tronic | I suppose it is gorilla glass. | 19:21 |
| khertan | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=python-sdist_maemo&project=home%3Akhertan&repository=Debian_6.0 <<< what does it s mean ? | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | there's an irregularly-shaped small area that's indented or something | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | bit unpleasant | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | My n900 screen is not scratched (now) | 19:22 |
| Tronic | N900 has pretty soft plastic, so it scratches almost instantly. | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I forgot about it an put some seccateurs in the wrong pocket | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | "/.build/build: line 1856: hostname: command not found" <-- in khertan's build log | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | and bent up and down a couple of hundred times | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I guess you are using 3 protectors stacked up one on the other | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | You could sorta-see-through the protector | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 19:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd be worried about a n9. | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Even if it is glass. | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~dict seccateurs | 19:23 |
| infobot | could not find definition for seccateurs | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: plant cutters | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | but that's not the error | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | khertan, your debian/changelog is malformed | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | please pastebin, we'll be able to offer more specific info | 19:23 |
| Tronic | Btw, another thing I noticed about the N950 vs. N900 is the screen polarization. Apparently the glass of N950 loses polarization as the picture can be seen with polaroid glasses in any orientation. | 19:24 |
| Tronic | Some protective films for N900 also do that. | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Tronic: and how does that differ to N900? | 19:24 |
| Tronic | DocScrutinizer: N900 screen is polarized so you cannot see it in all orientations. | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Tronic: actually I found this amazing property on a number of mobile LCD | 19:25 |
| Tronic | Cannot remember which orientation works, without a film. | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Tronic: I never had any issues except brightness, when wearing my polaroid glasses | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | (the ones you all know and love me wearing ;-D ) | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | you get slight rainbow effects, but no clear linear polarization | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ckecked | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | no polarizing on N900 | 19:27 |
| macmaN | how could i get a launcher that launches wifi with single button | 19:28 |
| macmaN | getting really annoying launching wifi with 5 presses all the time | 19:28 |
| fiferboy | DocScrutinizer: Yeah :/ | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | fiferboy: ?? | 19:28 |
| fiferboy | DocScrutinizer: Jeans | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 19:29 |
| khertan | mgedmin, thx | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | jeans have rivets | 19:29 |
| fiferboy | DocScrutinizer: Yeah, I am usually pretty careful about that but... | 19:29 |
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| macmaN | can anyone md5sum /etc/passwd for me on n950? | 19:29 |
| mgedmin | khertan, first thing: underscores (_) are not allowed in package names | 19:30 |
| macmaN | acf10ac55a8c0d5873ec3bb50ac36efc /etc/passwd | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't help I guess, I think I changed it | 19:30 |
| khertan | mgedmin, oh ... didn't know | 19:30 |
| khertan | :) | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# md5sum /etc/passwd | 19:30 |
| khertan | or didn't remember | 19:30 |
| khertan | :) | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | 23a11ba2fd7f16b39ddbb60568ae614c /etc/passwd | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | khertan, IIRC you can use only lowercase letters, digits and - | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | _ is used to separate the package name from the version number in the .deb filename | 19:30 |
| alterego | Okay, I do have a really tiny scratch on the screen. But it's almost impossible to see it :D | 19:30 |
| khertan | :) | 19:31 |
| alterego | Even tilted under light. | 19:31 |
| khertan | i know that but i think i'm too tired :) | 19:31 |
| khertan | and description is malformed | 19:31 |
| Tronic | DocScrutinizer: Hmm, I just teared off the sheet I had on mine and you are right, it doesn't go dark, only gets some minor discolorization. | 19:32 |
| macmaN | MohammadAG: okay, usermod -U user not the best idea :) dpkg will fail installing packages after that. there has to be something else to also make modified /etc/passwd acceptable to aegis | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_work, pong? | 19:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, how's the device so far? | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | macmaN, I'm pretty sure my /etc/passwd is modified | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | for one, I've changed the root password | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | for another, I strongly suspect the SDK Connect application changed the 'developer' user password to a random one | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | I can dpkg install things just fine, or deploy apps from Qt Creator | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | so what did you usermod with your user account? | 19:43 |
| macmaN | mgedmin: okay but go ahead, do usermod -U user | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | no thanks :) | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | I like it working | 19:44 |
| macmaN | it wont break anything seriously, you can usermod -L user back | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | what does -U do? unlock the account? | 19:44 |
| macmaN | i just did | 19:44 |
| macmaN | yes | 19:44 |
| macmaN | youll be able to ssh user@n950 | 19:44 |
| macmaN | http://leho.kraav.com/blog/2011/07/25/n950-tip-enable-ssh-usern950-with-public-key-authentication/ | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | I _am_ able to ssh user@n950 | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | my /etc/passwd has 'user::...' | 19:44 |
| mgedmin | I think I used passwd -u instead of usermod | 19:45 |
| macmaN | hmmmm | 19:45 |
| macmaN | maybe i need to also have a password set then | 19:45 |
| mgedmin | I don't have it! | 19:45 |
| mgedmin | anyway, Qt Creator uses ssh into the 'developer' account | 19:45 |
| macmaN | oh, ok, passwd -u also unlocks, youre right | 19:45 |
| macmaN | hmmmmm | 19:45 |
| macmaN | are you saying you can ssh user@n950 with pki? | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | yes | 19:46 |
| mgedmin | practically the first thing I did to my n950 was set up authorized_keys | 19:46 |
| macmaN | ok i did | 19:46 |
| macmaN | # passwd -u user | 19:46 |
| macmaN | Password changed. | 19:46 |
| macmaN | even though it asked no password | 19:46 |
| macmaN | lets see if dpkg pukes now | 19:47 |
| macmaN | ok yes i can ssh in | 19:47 |
| macmaN | oh wow | 19:48 |
| macmaN | whatever passwd -u is doing, it seems to be doing it better than usermod :> | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 19:48 |
| macmaN | aegis-loader: Failed loading policy for 'nelisquare::/opt/Nelisquare/bin/Nelisquare' | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | did you save a copy? | 19:48 |
| macmaN | of what | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | did passwd leave a backup /etc/passwd- | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | mmpf, could somebody shortly summarize the different -u -U -L commands and what exactly they do to the relevant line in passwd? | 19:49 |
| macmaN | mgedmin: i have broken one in pastebin | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | I'm curious about the diff of the broken /etc/passwd and the working /etc/passwd | 19:49 |
| macmaN | mgedmin: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/eVQ9GNceYutD16klIfuA/ | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, when I run man passwd on my ubuntu box, there's no -U/-L, just -u | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: same here | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | usermod is the one with -U/-L, I think | 19:50 |
| mgedmin | I've never used usermod... | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: sure, as -U -L seems usermod param | 19:50 |
| macmaN | yep, they are | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless all operate/modify that one line in etc/passwd, no? (on shadow-less systems) | 19:50 |
| macmaN | whats the point? | 19:50 |
| macmaN | right, i dont get what theyre doing different either | 19:51 |
| macmaN | and i dont think you can strace anything right? | 19:51 |
| mgedmin | actually you can | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | so compare the "user" record for all three | 19:51 |
| macmaN | or can you with some aegis-please-let-me-do-it --relaxed-sphinxter | 19:51 |
| mgedmin | you may need to run 'develsh' before you're allowed to | 19:51 |
| mgedmin | but strace is even preinstalled | 19:51 |
| macmaN | yes it is, just that ive always gotten permission denied | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | why strace? | 19:52 |
| macmaN | havent tried with develsh | 19:52 |
| macmaN | you could see what files they touch? | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | do you think passwd(1) also talks to aegis? | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | it's possible, maybe? | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | I wish I could run ldd or strings/grep | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | I can't ping my n950 again :( | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd first compare the user-account line in etc/passwd after the different modifications by -u -U -L | 19:53 |
| macmaN | aha! develsh does enable strace to work! | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | yeah, we have the pastebin of the broken /etc/passwd | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | what's different in the working one? | 19:53 |
| macmaN | quickdiff.com :> | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf? | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | ok, I'll diff with mine | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | only root and developer lines differ | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | (different hashed passwords, obviously) | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | root?? o.O | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | I changed the root pwd | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, different salt | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | because walking around with openssh running and allowing root logins with a HARDCODED WELL-KNOWN PASSWORD sounded like a bad idea to me | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 19:55 |
| macmaN | mgedmin: good point :> | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ummm | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | this has been discussed like 324 times | 19:56 |
| macmaN | mgedmin: you could restrict sshd logins by ip though | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | they are | 19:56 |
| macmaN | right, i also thought i saw it in sshd_config | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | why? just set a different password | 19:56 |
| macmaN | ill take my two-factor any day | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm bored | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 19:56 |
| rcg | yay.. well the way the gradient in the legend of https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor/old is implemented is quite "creative" | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously macmaN can't tell what's the one differing char when he runs passwd -u user | 19:57 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: it seems to me that /etc/passwd will be changed exactly the same | 19:58 |
| macmaN | ! is removed | 19:58 |
| macmaN | but passwd maybe touches some other magic button too | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm temped to edit etc/passwd by nano and see what happens | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | ldd $(which passwd) -> nothing suspicious | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | grep -c aegis /usr/bin/passwd -> 0 | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | aegis runs as root afaik | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH, I swore I'll ignore aegis whenever I run into it. So o/ | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | aegis is a kernel module, I think | 20:01 |
| lynxis | yes mgedmin you are right | 20:10 |
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| RST38h | Moo. | 20:19 |
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| alterego | dagnamit, is there no way to paste into harmattan terminal :( | 20:31 |
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| alterego | can't copy or paste :( | 20:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope :-((( | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | pretty much renders the whole system useless | 20:42 |
| divan | Can someone check whether mail message delete works for gmail? It doesn't work for me. Messages are disappeared from the Mail app, but when I check them in browser - thay still in inbox. | 20:43 |
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| khertan | Does there is problem currently with harmattan target and obs ? | 20:48 |
| khertan | rpc timeout | 20:48 |
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| frals | divan: i think it takes a few min for it to appear "deleted" in gmail, iirc | 20:52 |
| khertan | hum pushing a debian source package to cobs give error .. | 20:53 |
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| khertan | :) | 20:54 |
| khertan | python-setuptools | 20:54 |
| divan | frade_, I've checked mail in browser after 20 minutes | 20:54 |
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| qgil_ | hi, I just got a fresh Qt Creator using the online installer and adding the Harmattan target. I create a Qt Quick project, run the default template in the Simulator and I get this error message: | 20:54 |
| qgil_ | qrc:/qml/main.qml:1:1: module "QtQuick" version 1.1 is not installed | 20:54 |
| qgil_ | good beginning, now where am I supposed to get Qt Quick 1.1? | 20:54 |
| khertan | qgil_, harmattan meego 1.2 qemu | 20:54 |
| khertan | qgil_, or on device | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | that smells of qt 4.7.4 not being installed? | 20:55 |
| khertan | 4.7.3 ? | 20:55 |
| khertan | 4.7.4 isn't available yet isn't it ? | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | i thought .4 was the one with qtquick1.1 :) | 20:55 |
| khertan | or you can try 4.8 experimental :) | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah | 20:55 |
| * Stskeeps is already at qt5, so bit confused ;) | 20:55 | |
| qgil_ | qemu will complain because of platsec and I just want to work on UI, this is why I thought that Simulatr would suffice | 20:55 |
| khertan | qemu complain also of platsec here :) | 20:56 |
| qgil_ | I just want to use the Components | 20:56 |
| khertan | but as qt component for harmattan isn't available for desktop yet | 20:56 |
| khertan | qemu or directly on n950 | 20:56 |
| qgil_ | ok, then perhaps connecting the device is the best | 20:56 |
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| khertan | yep ... specially because qemu is pretty slow | 20:57 |
| Elleo | there's the scratchbox environment too | 20:57 |
| Elleo | that has x86 compiled harmattan components | 20:57 |
| khertan | Elleo, yeah but not well integrated to qtcreator :) ) | 20:57 |
| Elleo | there are instructions for getting it vaguely integrated with qtcreator (so you can at least build/run based on qt creator buttons) | 20:57 |
| lcuk | qgil_, which host OS are you using? | 20:58 |
| Elleo | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Getting_started_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Integrating_Qt_Creator_with_Scratchbox_in_Linux_environment | 20:58 |
| khertan | Elleo, did you know any plugin to integrate python also ? :) | 20:58 |
| qgil_ | lcuk: ubuntu | 20:58 |
| khertan | ah so component is available in a ppa | 20:59 |
| Elleo | well the instructions there just setup a few wrappers for qtcreator to call | 20:59 |
| Elleo | presumably you could do the same with python | 20:59 |
| Elleo | yeah, or just grab the packages and install them outside of scratchbox | 20:59 |
| tomma | Elleo, have you got scratchbox environment working with Xephyr? | 20:59 |
| Elleo | tomma: yep | 20:59 |
| lcuk | qgil_, however you get this cured, please file an official bug about the issue | 20:59 |
| khertan | tomma, yep | 21:00 |
| tomma | for some reason my Xephyr wont draw anything in QDeclarativeView | 21:00 |
| lcuk | without it the devs won't know to cure your workflow | 21:00 |
| Elleo | tomma: http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2011/07/02/libre-fm-radio-client-for-meego-under-development/ <-- is a quick video of some stuff working under Xephyr for me | 21:00 |
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| Elleo | but I pretty much just followed the instructions in the platform guide without any problems | 21:00 |
| khertan | lcuk, qgil_ : also https://launchpad.net/~forumnokia contain qt component and last experimental qt release for ubuntu | 21:01 |
| tomma | Elleo, yeah that seems to be working... all i got was some yellow background with black stripes | 21:02 |
| tomma | maybe i need to retest that =) | 21:02 |
| Elleo | can you get Xephyr working normally? | 21:02 |
| Elleo | i.e. if you just run something in your host OS, like: DISPLAY:2 xterm | 21:02 |
| Elleo | err | 21:03 |
| Elleo | DISPLAY=:2 xterm | 21:03 |
| tomma | yeah it worked but when i ran my application with qml | 21:03 |
| tomma | it didn't draw it right | 21:03 |
| Elleo | and did you run "meego-sb-session start" in scratchbox prior to launching your application? | 21:03 |
| Elleo | and launched your application with "meego-run ./yourapp"? | 21:04 |
| Elleo | if you did all that and it still didn't work then I have no clue what's wrong ;) | 21:04 |
| khertan | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysLYqoLqcyw | 21:09 |
| khertan | ^ what did you think of the file selection ^ | 21:10 |
| lcuk | khertan, more interested to see how actual editing works | 21:11 |
| lcuk | is there a packaged .deb somewhere? | 21:11 |
| Tronic | Is there any G+ app for N950 yet, or is G+ coming for N9? | 21:11 |
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| harbaum | khertan: nice file selector! Guess what i am doing at this very moment: Writing a file selector in qt components :-) | 21:19 |
| lcuk | harbaum, lol | 21:19 |
| lcuk | so if everybody has their own file select it is not perfect situation | 21:20 |
| harbaum | that's how qml is meant to work in general | 21:20 |
| qgil_ | Tronic: since the G+ APIs are not public afak you should ask this question to Google | 21:21 |
| harbaum | but mine is based on the dialog element unlike khertan's which is based in a page | 21:21 |
| khertan | :) | 21:22 |
| khertan | it ll be funny when every application will have his own things | 21:23 |
| lcuk | harbaum, I know more than most about each developer is an island, better to combine sper powers to produce awesome dialogs in system | 21:23 |
| tomma | and i have whole application for opening, copying and moving files | 21:23 |
| khertan | no plateform constant ui | 21:23 |
| khertan | huge mistake | 21:23 |
| khertan | lcuk, no deb yet | 21:23 |
| khertan | i'm currently fighting with c obs to build python-setuptools | 21:24 |
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| khertan | then i ll be able to build python-sdist-maemo | 21:24 |
| lcuk | khertan, if you get one made give me a shout, it looks interesting and would like to try it on my meego ideapad | 21:24 |
| tomma | well... someone makes good filedialog and then it could be pushed to components? | 21:24 |
| khertan | then a preview package | 21:24 |
| khertan | tomma, i make one base on page | 21:24 |
| khertan | :) | 21:24 |
| lcuk | tomma, writing a file select dialog is rite of passage :P | 21:24 |
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| lcuk | it is the new media player/ hello world :P | 21:24 |
| tomma | =) | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | harbaum: khertan: isn't it absolutely great that there's no filepicker dialog coming by default? :-S | 21:25 |
| harbaum | i actually think they don't want you to pick files at all. i was also thinking about just listing the files from a fixed directory and force the user to place his files there | 21:27 |
| Mek | yeah, I think the idea is that with tracker you don't need a file dialog... | 21:27 |
| lcuk | mek, you still need a file picker | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess Nokia's plan to exterminate the concept of filesystem won't pan out in the long term. Apple tried it and failed. Seems Nokia want to fail on its own | 21:28 |
| harbaum | keep the UX simple also means not to bother noobs with things like "/home/user/MyDocs/.images/..." | 21:28 |
| tomma | atleast it is not .images anymore... | 21:28 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer, it s great than every app will have different look, button, ux, none persistant look and feel | 21:28 |
| lcuk | but but but, they will all swipe! | 21:29 |
| harbaum | Mek: How do i tell tracker to collect zip'ed geocaching gpx files? | 21:29 |
| Mek | I don't know exactly how tracker works, but afair you can write all kinds of plugins for it to extract whatever data you like from whatever file format... | 21:29 |
| khertan | lcuk, yeah... swipe... while the concept is great, swipe instead of switch next music in music player is less :) | 21:29 |
| lcuk | lol | 21:30 |
| khertan | Mek, how i tell tracker to save my source code file in the right place to be compiled ? | 21:30 |
| khertan | Mek, any gcc plugin to use tracker to automatically found misplaced files in sources folder ? | 21:30 |
| khertan | :) | 21:30 |
| Mek | well okay, a source code editor is a different case of course; but I don't think that is the primary use case of a phone anyway | 21:31 |
| lcuk | ? mek | 21:31 |
| lcuk | why different | 21:31 |
| khertan | Mek, it is ! | 21:31 |
| khertan | :) | 21:31 |
| lcuk | it is user generated content | 21:31 |
| lcuk | content creation and all that | 21:31 |
| lcuk | sometimes people do more than use twitter on mobile devices | 21:31 |
| harbaum | Mek: Yeah, great, let's focus on "primary phone use cases" ... | 21:31 |
| harbaum | twitter isn't a "primary phone use case" | 21:32 |
| lcuk | replace source code with SMS messages | 21:32 |
| lcuk | replace gpx files with MMS messages | 21:32 |
| Mek | well, for most content creating cases it doesn't matter where your content is created as long as you can find the content back easily... | 21:32 |
| Mek | if you want to call a compiler, the editor will know where the file is | 21:32 |
| harbaum | primary phone use case is to do phone calls. If that's what Mek wants, then he might indeed have a use for my Siemens S55 | 21:32 |
| lcuk | i have graffiti wall for this | 21:32 |
| lcuk | but sometimes file picking must occur!" | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | harbaum: yes indeed, so you make noobs bother with /home/user/MyDocs/.images/... AND terminal AND cndline, as literally NO apple iPhone user or any other IT user managed to live in a consistent world without any pathnames, since MSDOS abolished the idea of all files sitting in \ | 21:33 |
| Mek | yes, but file picking does not necesary require exposing a directory structure. I'm not saying that it is perfectly implemented, but some tagging/tracker/whatever system can be quite adequate imho | 21:33 |
| * lcuk just made a text file picker | 21:34 | |
| harbaum | Nokia may want meego to be for noobs, but we don't have to agree with them | 21:34 |
| lcuk | with percentage read indicator on each book | 21:34 |
| lcuk | :) | 21:34 |
| RST38h | NOkia does not want meego, it wants wp7 | 21:34 |
| lcuk | harbaum, they want meego for simplicity | 21:34 |
| lcuk | and it on the whole works | 21:34 |
| khertan | lcuk, does it s works for manga ? reading from end ? :) | 21:34 |
| harbaum | i am still writing a file browser ... | 21:35 |
| lcuk | khertan, .txt files only | 21:35 |
| lcuk | i prefer simplicity | 21:35 |
| lcuk | and all the random formats for books are just text files anyway | 21:35 |
| khertan | harbaum, look at mine : http://gitorious.org/khteditor | 21:35 |
| lcuk | so concentrated on that | 21:35 |
| khertan | branch qml | 21:35 |
| harbaum | khertan: Thanks, will take a very close look at it. My previous file picker (based on plain qml) was pretty close to the one the qmlviwer includes | 21:39 |
| khertan | harbaum, mine is here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysLYqoLqcyw | 21:39 |
| khertan | :) | 21:39 |
| MohammadAG | khertan, so you finally got along with qml? | 21:40 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, héhé :) | 21:40 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, no choice | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | topic pathless UI: I lauged my ass off when I found that backup tool in fremantle couldn't destinguish between files of same name on eMMC and on uSD | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | so HOW are you going to tackle that issue with tracker? | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly the isea is so incredibly silly | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | idea* | 21:41 |
| khertan | MohammadAG, this doesn't mean i like qml ... i found the concept painfull for devel | 21:42 |
| harbaum | khertan: You are using qtquick 1.1 ... i don't have that under ubuntu, nor under symbian, so it's a nono for me | 21:42 |
| khertan | harbaum, under ubuntu there is ppa :) | 21:43 |
| harbaum | Also, i'd replace com.nokia.meego with com.meego :-) | 21:43 |
| harbaum | I am using the ppa | 21:43 |
| khertan | but yes ... i use qt harmattan component | 21:44 |
| khertan | so qtquick 1.1 | 21:44 |
| khertan | this is the magic of qtquick ... use a multi plateform framework ... to use specific qml component which are tied to a platform/vendor/version | 21:44 |
| khertan | and loose the multi platform part of qt | 21:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | topic pathless: and requiring user to use special tagging tools to mark all photos of one directory with "from Olympus, Summer holiday 09" to keep them together in tracker despite the fact he simply moved the perfectly sorted directory with all the photos to the device via mass storage... c'MON *that's* noob-proven and simple then? haha | 21:46 |
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| MohammadAG | sigh, checked the DDP page, N950 is still a new order | 21:52 |
| antman8969 | where are you? | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | Israel | 21:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | MohammadAG, seriously? | 21:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd say it's time to email Nokia. | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, yes | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | already emailed them last thursday | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG | or wednesday | 21:53 |
| antman8969 | well just to be fair | 21:54 |
| antman8969 | theres still over half that hanv't gotten the device yet | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | got the "we'll ship ASAP" answer | 21:54 |
| antman8969 | or at least, that didnt' update their wiki... | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | antman8969, I'm sure over 100 if not 200 got their devices | 21:54 |
| antman8969 | what have you been doing in the meantime mohammadag | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG | killing people with guitar amplifiers | 21:54 |
| antman8969 | lol productive | 21:55 |
| antman8969 | hope you didn't kill any dhl guys... | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG | apparently, Israeli security calls them explosives | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG | so might as well do something explosive-y with em | 21:55 |
| antman8969 | do they...really? | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG | Yes, I was delayed an hour the other day cause they had it in an isolated room with a bot | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, send a picture to the amp manufactuer, they'll *love* it | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | the kind the police uses for bombs | 21:56 |
| antman8969 | haha | 21:56 |
| Elleo | macmaN: finally managed to get OpenVPN all built, it's in my repository | 21:56 |
| antman8969 | do you heave a beard? | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | and the red tape with hebrew text on it | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | no | 21:56 |
| antman8969 | well then I'm lost | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG | I have an amp that says "Input", "Volume", "Reverb", "Delay", "Gain" | 21:57 |
| harbaum | khertan: Had to watch your video to verify that this "pathbox" also behaves that way in your own app .... | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | which can easily be mistaken for a bomb | 21:57 |
| Elleo | macmaN: (including the openvpn and openssl blacklists) | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | cause bombs have a volume | 21:57 |
| antman8969 | you know the best bombs use distortion.... | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG | good thing they didn't know then | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | also last I checked, bombs don't have 5" jacks | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | err, 5mm | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | 6.3mm | 21:58 |
| antman8969 | lol duh, or else you'd have to use a converter | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG | 5+mm, happy DocScrutinizer? :P | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | seriously though | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | why don't guitars use 3.5mm | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG | besides durability | 21:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you wouldn't ask this if you were a *real* live performing musician, drinking, taking drugs, all that... :-) | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've witnessed musicians too drunk to plug in even the 6.3mm plug to their guitar right away | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | imagine a punk or a heavy metal musician fumbling with a 3.5mm jack :-P | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually some cables are too thick to fit into *any* 3.5mm jack | 22:05 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plus 3.5mm are probably not strong enough to avoid bending and breaking even if the plug was made of massive 1st grade steel | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually not even 6.3mm always is | 22:08 |
| RST38h | Are you suggesting 10mm military-grade headphone jacks on all phones? | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | see XLR jacks - there's a reason for this form factor | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | well, can't say your wrong, my 7th pair of headphones broke | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: we talked about musicians' equipment and why it has 6.3 rather than 3.5 | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | with a 400km trip ahead of me tomorrow | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | it's gonna be boring | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | sometimes, I wish I had an iPod tbh | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | or a similar mp3 player, the N900 doesn't cut it for quick playback | 22:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Do we have an N950 icon yet? | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | Gollum, perhaps? | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | "My preciouss.." | 22:23 |
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| gri_ | Anyone has a clue of transifex and qt translations? | 22:25 |
| gri_ | It seems it won't accept .ts files from me :( | 22:26 |
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| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, know of any Nokian I can contact? | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG | besides ddp.program | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not particularly. | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd say ddp may be the best bet. | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | achipa may know. | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG | already contacted those | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG | but it's been 18 days | 22:33 |
| piggz | strange how i kep tpping my n900 to wake it up :) | 22:33 |
| MohammadAG | so unless they want to send it to me on my bday, I don't see a reason for the delay :p | 22:33 |
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| * leinir ponders on status.net things and accounts-qt... | 22:43 | |
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| macmaN | Elleo: thanks alot | 22:46 |
| macmaN | Elleo: been fighting with aegis all day long | 22:47 |
| macmaN | i swear killing dragons in the medieval ages must've been simpler | 22:47 |
| macmaN | i think i subdued it now though, deployment process works again | 22:47 |
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| macmaN | well apt-get update now, while not breathing just in case | 22:47 |
| macmaN | will* | 22:47 |
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| frals | <MohammadAG> GeneralAntilles, know of any Nokian I can contact? | 22:48 |
| frals | about? | 22:48 |
| macmaN | The following extra packages will be installed: libpkcs11-helper1 openssl openssl-blacklist openvpn-blacklist | 22:49 |
| macmaN | uh, n950 doesnt havent openssl installed by default? | 22:49 |
| macmaN | Elleo: ii libssl0.9.8 0.9.8k-8maemo7+dbg+0m6 SSL shared libraries | 22:51 |
| macmaN | i'm kinda scared about this one | 22:51 |
| macmaN | although i guess theres no conflicting files there | 22:55 |
| macmaN | i am not hearing at least an immediate explosion nor seeing smoke coming out.. | 22:57 |
| Elleo | macmaN: I built the package so it uses the system's libssl version, all the the openssl package contains is the binaries | 23:02 |
| Elleo | which aren't in the default repos | 23:02 |
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| Elleo | macmaN: typically "openssl" breaks down in to 4 or 5 packages "openssl, libsslx.x.x[-dev|dbg], libcrypt" | 23:04 |
| macmaN | Elleo: good stuff. now i guess the issue is openvpn upstart-readiness. | 23:05 |
| macmaN | ok nelisquare takes forever to launch | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | frals, 18 days in New Order | 23:18 |
| achipa | MohammadAG: have you talked to Nora ? | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: how are you? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | piggz: (tapping to keep it up) there's simple brightness applet for that | 23:23 |
| piggz | DocScrutinizer: i was joking about being used to tapping the n950 to wake it up, and i now do it automatically on the 900 :) | 23:24 |
| * vandenoever wonders if there is a build condition for qmake *.pro files for n950 | 23:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | piggz: aah | 23:25 |
| vandenoever | e.g. "harmattan { SOURCES += harmattan.cpp }" | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | Who? | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | Hi Mohammad | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | Thank you for your email, we will try to send the device as soon as we can. | 23:26 |
| MohammadAG | Apology for the delay, | 23:26 |
| MohammadAG | Joan | 23:26 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, fine methinks :) | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: good :-D | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: considered that community dump repo? | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | that was 5 days ago | 23:29 |
| macmaN | MohammadAG: its a damn shame you are one of the last ones to get a device | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | yep. | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm almost tempted to say they obviously ship in order of most relevant latest | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | yep. :) (but not really) | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | proof: I got mine first | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 23:32 |
| macmaN | Elleo: ok openvpn != upstart actually, on debian this is supposed to be handled by if-up.d etc | 23:34 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, can't log into OBS | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh! :-/ | 23:35 |
| MohammadAG | talked to X-Fade, doesn't seem like he fixed it | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: browser login?? | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | I'm seriously having problems with luck lately | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, auth failed | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | on web? | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm asking as this is notorious to be borked, and maybe I know how to work around it | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I had to clean out my cookies, as the Nokia/meego SSO seems to leave a session-end cookie that never expires or gets cleared/overwritten | 23:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | otoh you need to enable cookies or signon doesn't work either | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | and then you need to use a *simple* URL to first logon, then from there go to the more complex URLs, as the redirect from intercepting logon page to e.g https://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html doesn't work and also leaves you with a endless-recursion error or sth | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | all this seems to apply to Nokia.com as well as meego.com and ovi.com | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea about OBS | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc x-fade said "it uses same login as your nokia account" or similar statement, so I guess the problem also is the same | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | I had that problem a year ago when meego started, and I still have it today | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | (a year ago I didn't know about the gory details though) | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah, one more tip: check the "remember me on this computer" in logon screen, otherwise the cookies aren't sent it seems | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | result: you and on same logon page again | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/and/end/ | 23:46 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: result: you end on same logon page again | 23:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~Nokia-SSO is http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-07-25.log.html#t2011-07-25T23:37:15 | 23:50 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 23:50 |
| khertan | c-obs is funny ... can't use + in filename | 23:56 |
| khertan | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=python-setuptools&project=home%3Akhertan | 23:56 |
| khertan | so build failed of course | 23:56 |
| Elleo | macmaN: yeah, it's from an old debian (lenny) package (pre-upstart) | 23:58 |
| Elleo | macmaN: as all the more recent packages use openssl 1.0 and I didn't particular wnat it to have to install libssl1.0.0 alongside libssl0.9.8 that the system already has | 23:59 |
| Elleo | oh hang, that's the openssl package you're talking about openvpn | 23:59 |
| Elleo | that'll be a more recent one | 23:59 |
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