IRC log of #meego for Friday, 2011-09-30

lbt	OCEOCE: I suggest starting on the meego.com wiki	00:00
OCEOCE	do you mean this wiki ? http://wiki.meego.com/Main_Page	00:00
lbt	yes - find somewhere suitable in there	00:01
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OCEOCE	... and behave as wiki editer or die hardly ;-)	00:02
SpeedEvil	OCEOCE: We don't not believe it's real.	00:03
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SpeedEvil	OCEOCE: Simply that other than architectural consideration, at this time, it's a questionable effort, as as far as I know there are no possibly open phones with 2 SIMs	00:03
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OCEOCE	This is needed - if software allow this - then producer will try dual sim device (something new) - I am sure ot this	00:05
mingwandroid	vgrade: hey	00:05
SpeedEvil	OCEOCE: Meego is _not_ a plug-and-go shiny phone system.	00:05
SpeedEvil	OCEOCE: considerable work is needed to go from the base meego to a shiny phone.	00:06
SpeedEvil	OCEOCE: Probably a fairly insignificant part of this effort would be getting dual SIM to work	00:06
OCEOCE	yes, I am aware - I dont expect it tommorow	00:06
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OCEOCE	Well I will try to create page in wiki - best I can ;)	00:07
DocScrutinizer	OCEOCE: it seems the architecture should be mostly ready to deal with multisim. Any manufacturer considering to build a meego phone will not face and roadblocks to implement dual sim support on his meego adaption	00:08
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DocScrutinizer	as for now there's possibly GSM SIM and VoIP handled in same dialer. Another SIM would just be one more entry in a selector list	00:10
DocScrutinizer	foe the dialer and call history and whatnot else it's no difference if the second "line" is SIP or another (second) SIM	00:11
OCEOCE	Forgive me - I dont believe any device with dual sim will occur in hope that after real device happen then MeeGo adopt&use dual sim mechanism - it will not work. How to expalin such situation to customer "you have 2 sim connectors, but on is just in hope it will be used in future"? That would be funy, wouldn't?	00:11
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DocScrutinizer	sorry, this sounds not very well thought	00:12
DocScrutinizer	I just explained to you there is probably already everything in place for 7 SIM plus 11 VoIP phone	00:13
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DocScrutinizer	create new account -> select SIP\|gtalk\|jabber\|whatnot - you simply add GSM there, to create another GSM/SIM account rather than a SIP-VoIP account	00:15
OCEOCE	I just think: dual (multi) sim should be as possible to use option to make device producer to release dual sim ready hardware. In my mind I think this should be posssible, when other parties does this with sth-like-linux operated phones.	00:16
DocScrutinizer	sigh	00:16
OCEOCE	I agree with you DocScrutinizer	00:17
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OCEOCE	;) and don't mean "sigh" ;D	00:19
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OCEOCE	I am reading about architecture in wiki - seems more easy is to specify dual(multi)sim then put it in correct form to wiki... ;-)	00:24
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zeroproximity1	has anyone been able to install meego on hp touchpad, if so can you link me to instructions	02:13
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pupnik	tegra chipset?	02:50
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jykae	think it's my time to leave this sinking ship..	03:40
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iekku	morning	06:39
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* dm8tbr ponders what happened to the whole MeeGo infra		11:54
Stskeeps	internet weather is totally shot	11:54
dm8tbr	looks like it got nuked from orbit	11:54
dm8tbr	not even DNS is resolving	11:54
X-Fade	Whole OSU is gone.	11:54
Stskeeps	that too	11:54
dm8tbr	nod was guessing so	11:54
dm8tbr	such massive outage usually means loss of connectivity	11:54
*** joroi_ is now known as joroi		11:55
X-Fade	dns is strange as we have one in .fi	11:55
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Stskeeps	build.meego.com still seems up	11:55
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Stskeeps	:P	11:55
X-Fade	Stskeeps: It is a routing issue, which does strange things :)	11:56
Stskeeps	yes	11:56
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Sage	http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393830,00.asp#fbid=pZj3pZpMEaz	12:11
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chouchoune	Sage: good news	12:35
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Sage	chouchoune: ? :)	12:39
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chouchoune	Sage: your article about Asus and MeeGo	12:40
Sage	ah, that	12:40
Sage	well, I'm a bit skeptic about the content of that article though.	12:40
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priyanka	hi is the meego down? m unable to connect to repo.meego.com	12:42
dm8tbr	OSU has routing issues	12:42
priyanka	is there any alternative link, mirror?	12:43
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Stskeeps	i was going to say kernel.org but..	12:44
Stskeeps	:P	12:44
araujo	morning	12:44
priyanka	kernel.org too is down...	12:45
w00t	Stskeeps: good joke	12:45
Sage	pretty much every resource that I'm used to use with daily meego work is unavailable atm. :/	12:45
lbt	dm8tbr: no, Level3 has routing issues in Denver .... don't blame OSU when it's not their fault	12:46
Stskeeps	irc is, still here	12:46
Stskeeps	:P	12:46
Sage	Stskeeps: yes and gitorious works as well ;)	12:46
ScriptRipper	some other OSU sites like mozilla.org also work	12:46
ScriptRipper	OSU hosts a lot more FOSS projects and websites than just those from LF	12:47
dm8tbr	lbt: ok, then 'the internet is somehow broken'	12:47
lbt	dm8tbr: yep :)	12:48
ScriptRipper	it must be something LF specific, tizen, yocto, meego, kernel.org ... are LF sites	12:48
Sage	OSU as in Ohio State University?	12:48
ScriptRipper	Sage: yes	12:48
lbt	ScriptRipper: no, not really	12:49
pupnik_	backups backups backups	12:49
ScriptRipper	lbt not really what ?	12:49
lbt	not LF specific AFAIK	12:49
lbt	unless it's LF at Level3	12:49
ScriptRipper	but the list of sites is LF related	12:49
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ScriptRipper	tell me a "not LF associated" site ?	12:50
ScriptRipper	which has an issue ?	12:50
* lbt runs a grep on the internet		12:50
lbt	just a minute...	12:50
ScriptRipper	lbt, tell us in 3 years when you have it :D	12:50
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lbt	over 2Mb ADSL .... it'll be a bit longer than that :D	12:51
lbt	the-boss: tell ScriptRipper that you can still get from OSU to an irc node	12:51
ScriptRipper	as I said, its not OSU per se	12:52
w00t	osuosl.org isn't available, so I suspect it isn't just LF	12:52
lbt	mmm a while ago the irc bot inside meego.com was still connected to an irc node	12:52
lbt	so we had OSU -> irc -> irc -> us	12:52
lbt	but not tcp routing	12:53
lbt	the-boss: hey	12:53
the-boss	lbt: Error: "hey" is not a valid command.	12:53
lbt	OK ... it is still up	12:53
ScriptRipper	osuosl.org is for me a "LF related site"	12:53
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lbt	yeah ... but like I say ... the-boss is running inside meego.com	12:53
lbt	so clearly it gets out to an irc node	12:53
lbt	so it's not like the router is down	12:54
lbt	anyhow... not that important ...	12:54
thiago	wasn't it the Oregon State University?	12:54
thiago	not the Ohio one?	12:54
ScriptRipper	Yes	12:55
Sage	ScriptRipper: :)	12:55
ScriptRipper	did someone type Ohio ?	12:55
Sage	o/	12:55
ScriptRipper	I meant Oregon	12:55
Sage	hmmp... http://qa-reports.meego.com/ is available	12:55
Stskeeps	yes, different hosting	12:55
Sage	ah	12:55
ScriptRipper	where is MeeGo community OBS hosted ?	12:56
Sage	same place than others	12:56
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ScriptRipper	Strange, http://gentoo.osuosl.org for example works	12:58
ScriptRipper	so it must be something more complicated	12:59
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X-Fade	ScriptRipper: Peering partner has issues, level3 in this case.	13:01
X-Fade	ScriptRipper: drupal.org for example is down too.	13:01
ScriptRipper	understood, but not in detail :)	13:02
ScriptRipper	does not matter ...	13:02
X-Fade	It is broken, that matters :)	13:02
X-Fade	And there is nothing we can do but wait.	13:03
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CosmoHill	what distros do you guys use on your desktops / workstations?	13:33
SpeedEvil	slackware	13:33
CosmoHill	Fedora 15 is confusing the crap out of me, it dies as soon after entering gnome 3 but plymouth works fine	13:34
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Sage	CosmoHill: f15	13:37
Sage	f15 with xfce ;)	13:37
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Sage	gnome 3 just didn't work for me on desktop usage with more than one screen	13:37
CosmoHill	might change to kde, it worked fine on intel but I changed the graphics card and it dies	13:37
leinir	opensuse :)	13:38
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X-Fade	And we're back. Seems that the network issues have been resolved.	13:48
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CosmoHill	leinir: that's annoying, the "get it now" banner has PPC on it but there is no ppc option in the downloads	13:49
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KaIRC	CosmoHill: then a bug should be filed on that, PPC support has been stopped some time ago	14:05
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* iekku wonders if there's anyone fixing bugs which aren't CE related :(		14:06
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Stskeeps	iekku: that's where i hope to share a lot of tizen packages :P	14:07
iekku	:D	14:08
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* CosmoHill hopes that OpenSUSE supports JFS out of the box		14:14
CosmoHill	oh shit I just filled up a partition on the Uni's HPC	14:15
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KaIRC	CosmoHill: whatever the kernel supports should be supported by openSUSE	14:19
CosmoHill	cool, if not I'll make another guide like I did for fedora	14:20
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KaIRC	CosmoHill: I think Fedora and openSUSE should have many similarities - just that openSUSE uses OBS and zypper ;-)	14:21
CosmoHill	KaIRC: http://black-flag.co.uk/wordpress/ << top two	14:22
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KaIRC	CosmoHill: jfsutils seem to be in the default openSUSE repository, so if you do a manual package selection at install time, you can add it right there	14:27
CosmoHill	I'm going into uni later so I should have the ISO when I get home	14:28
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aqoku	hello I can't find MeeGo 1.2 Hartaman images for resources. Could you tell where from I can download it?	15:00
aqoku	And why it has disappeared?	15:00
Stskeeps	errm..	15:00
Stskeeps	:P	15:00
thiago	#harmattan please	15:00
the-boss	thiago: Error: "harmattan" is not a valid command.	15:00
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aqoku	ok wrong spelling but how about download 1.2 H....	15:02
aqoku	?	15:02
thiago	you can download 1.2 pre-release images from repo.meego.com	15:02
thiago	not 1.2 Harmattan	15:02
aqoku	and what about release? I was at MeeGoZone.com and now there is nothing. The same at MeeGo.com	15:03
aqoku	?	15:03
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aqoku	Where I should look for it?	15:04
thiago	there is no 1.2 release yet	15:04
thiago	given this week's announcements, the 1.2 release might be delayed until the community reorganises	15:05
dneary_	thiago: You mean 1.3, presumably?	15:05
thiago	oh, sorry	15:05
thiago	yes 1.3	15:05
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Stskeeps	1.3's in a bit of a mess, doesn't really boot on x86	15:05
Stskeeps	well	15:05
Stskeeps	that's a half truth	15:05
Stskeeps	our CE images does	15:06
iekku	aqoku, if you need help with MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan, please join #harmattan channel	15:06
Stskeeps	but i don't think netbook and so on functions	15:06
aqoku	But what about those 1.2 which was aviable and has disappeared?	15:06
Stskeeps	aqoku: 1.2 is still available	15:06
Stskeeps	harmattan is a nokia product, not a meego.com product	15:06
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aqoku	Stskeeps: where?	15:08
Stskeeps	https://meego.com/downloads	15:08
Stskeeps	if you want anything harmattan, ask nokia	15:08
aqoku	well but there is none for handset, which I am looking for	15:09
Stskeeps	there was no 1.2 handset release	15:09
Stskeeps	closest thing is the Community Edition (http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 ) work we've done	15:09
aqoku	it was there but disappeared - that is the problem	15:09
Stskeeps	nop, it was never there	15:10
Stskeeps	1.1 was there	15:10
aqoku	ok perhaps I was halucitaniting ;) anyway thanks a lot :)	15:10
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aqoku	#tizen	15:20
the-boss	aqoku: Error: "tizen" is not a valid command.	15:20
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chouchoune	Just received an invitation to speak about MeeGo at a conference in November (for the Meego french network); no idea what to do with that :(	16:13
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lbt	chouchoune: accept	16:20
lbt	there will be plenty to talk about !	16:20
lbt	it's just that you may not know the topics until late oct :)	16:21
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chouchoune	lbt: ;)	16:24
chouchoune	I need to give them a title and a description ;)	16:24
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lbt	chouchoune: "MeeGo andTizen ... WTF"	16:29
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w00t	"Just Tizen'"?	16:33
chouchoune	w00t: just Tizen ?	16:34
chouchoune	I don't know if I really want to speak about Tizen yet ;)	16:34
lbt	"Moblin, Maemo, MeeGo : A case study in corporate control of community projects : an analysis of the trust relationship"	16:35
lbt	"MeeGo. What now? Again!"	16:35
SpeedEvil	lbt: OpenMoko would be worth a mention too.	16:35
chouchoune	hahaha	16:36
SpeedEvil	They did in many ways similar things to nokia.	16:36
lbt	"MeeGo. We never saw this coming"	16:36
SpeedEvil	(though selling under .1% of phones)	16:36
lbt	"MeeGo. Now with extra choices."	16:36
chouchoune	the goal was to do something positive at the beginning ;)	16:36
lbt	Actually I'm mainly positive about the future in this space	16:37
lbt	it's a bit violent with all the jolting ... but actually we're seeing more merge than fork IMHO	16:37
chouchoune	yes	16:38
chouchoune	I'm positive too	16:38
chouchoune	but I don't have any visibility now	16:38
lbt	What I'm not positive about is "community"	16:38
chouchoune	I will still probably make that conference	16:38
w00t	chouchoune: play on words	16:38
w00t	(tizin == teasing)	16:38
lbt	I now think that needs to be clearly distinct from MeeGo/Tizen/Maemo/Moblin/Limo or whatever	16:38
w00t	lbt: "MeeGo find a new corporate overlord"	16:39
lbt	we should be openWTF.org	16:39
araujo	lbt, hehe	16:39
araujo	hi all	16:39
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gabrbedd	FineYouGoWhatever	16:48
lbt	opendotstar.org	16:49
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gabrbedd	How do you pronounce Tizen, anyway?	16:53
slaine	Tie-Zen I believe	16:53
gabrbedd	I keep using a german-ish Tit-Zen... which sounds like the german plural for tits.	16:54
slaine	I'm sure you just walk around saying that anyway	16:54
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gabrbedd	Ja, ich bin eine tizen mensch.	16:56
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MohammadAG	gabrbedd, it's the plural for ass in arabic as is	16:57
gabrbedd	MohammadAG: yeah, I've heard about more than one not-so-good transliterations like that. :-)	16:57
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gabrbedd	slaine: Nah, on about the same day was announced Tizen, that Nokia is developing "an open linux-based OS for feature phones", and that Samsung is now sleeping with Microsoft.	16:59
gabrbedd	slaine: So, I haven't been going around saying much of anything. I feel kind of embarrassed by it all.	16:59
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slaine	gabrbedd: it's a joke alright	17:00
slaine	the comedian would be proud </watchmen>	17:01
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vgrade	TSCHAKeee, hi	17:54
Stskeeps	morn TSCHAKeee	17:54
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TSCHAKeee	yo	17:57
npm	well everything may suck pretty bad, but the live rock in rio concert w/ stevie wonder last night on youtube almost made me not care for a while...	17:58
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npm	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehSF5wECygc	18:02
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npm	which you can watch on your meego tablet/netbook (if you've got all the codecs needed for "the internet") or "out of box" on N9/N950, courtesy of opensource and Qt: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_11_2.i586.rpm http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1.11.1_armel.deb or http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_11_2.tar.gz	18:05
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mcfrisk	anyone here know how to refresh linked source linked projects from client OBS to master OBS?	18:48
Stskeeps	they should be notified through lastevents	18:48
Stskeeps	in the obs api	18:48
mcfrisk	that's not working, is there a way to trigger it manually	18:49
Stskeeps	that's surprising	18:50
Stskeeps	i don't know, maybe kick the scheduler for a rescan?	18:50
Stskeeps	for the project	18:50
mcfrisk	I can see 60 packages in remote OBS project through link project in client OBS, but a source linked project is not getting updates automatically	18:50
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mcfrisk	obs_admin --deep-check-project project arch did not help on the client OBS side on source linked or link projects	18:51
Stskeeps	hmm	18:51
Stskeeps	you'd need to prod the obs authorsi think	18:51
mcfrisk	tried :)	18:51
Stskeeps		18:51
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Stskeeps	okay	18:52
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mcfrisk	we basically have one way connection from client OBS to master OBS https port, wiresharking a linked project checkout did not reveal any other ports	18:53
Stskeeps	should work, it's client-server ptocol	18:54
Stskeeps	i'd wireshark and see if lastevents changes	18:55
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mcfrisk	so we were able to rebuild a source linked project once, but forcing it to update from master, no idea how to do that..	18:58
Stskeeps	yeah, source modifications should really really come over the wire	18:59
Stskeeps	if they don't, that's a bug for sure	18:59
mcfrisk	logs are pretty quiet too	18:59
Stskeeps	it's perl, add some print's ;)	18:59
mcfrisk	ok, diving into /usr/lib/obs/server ..	19:00
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Stskeeps	it's the watcher thing you need to debug	19:02
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mcfrisk	where does the stdout/stderr of them go?	19:04
Stskeeps	i'd assume the logs	19:04
Stskeeps	not sure	19:04
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npm	good thing all "my" meego stuff runs on my fedora desktop: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube-on-fedora-desktop-over-jackaudio-monitored-by-mudita24.png	19:12
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* npm just made a playlist on qmltube of the whole thing so i have today's music set		19:13
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npm	the whole thing being http://www.youtube.com/user/LiveBroadcastC3	19:14
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* slonopotamus is scared of pause button on live performance		19:16
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borco	hi	19:28
* CosmoHill sighs		19:29
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borco	anybody had trouble with using the network after installing the beta2 firmware on n950?	19:29
borco	do i need to create some aegis spec? any idea where to look for some docs?	19:29
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wmarone	try #harmattan	19:29
borco	i need to use udp and to store/read some user files	19:29
borco	wmarone: ok. thanx	19:29
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borco	bye	19:30
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mikeleib	w00t: bug 18202	19:37
_MeeGoBot_	Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18202 nor, High, ---, michael.leibowitz, RESO WONTFIX, qt hard-codes a artificially low number of maximum concurrent http connections	19:37
w00t	mikeleib: yes :)	19:37
mikeleib	confused by your reply	19:37
w00t	thanks for getting back to me	19:37
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mikeleib	I understand that the patch bothers you (which it should)	19:37
mikeleib	but, do you have the required abilities to revert it?	19:38
w00t	mikeleib: I have access to submit to T:T, yes	19:38
mikeleib	do it-- the patch is an abomination	19:38
w00t	I didn't want to do that without an OK though	19:38
w00t	ok, thanks	19:38
w00t	I'll reopen and assign to me	19:38
mikeleib	the patch was to support an application that's dead	19:38
mikeleib	the app was crazy	19:38
w00t	I got that from the description, haha	19:38
mikeleib	it was a node.js based app and used a zillion xml http requests between it and the other apps	19:39
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w00t	can you go into detail about the purpose at all? I'm just honestly curious	19:40
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mikeleib	it was being used as an IPC mechanism between some widgets	19:43
Stskeeps	scary	19:43
w00t	haha	19:44
w00t	I think I agree with that description	19:44
mikeleib	it made some degree of sense, but only within a narrow context and overall it was just crazy	19:44
mikeleib	it wasn't authored by us	19:44
mikeleib	and we weren't consulted on the design	19:44
w00t	OEMs \o/	19:44
slonopotamus	does meego still require ssse btw?	19:45
Stskeeps	yes, but it's fairly easy for anyone to remove	19:46
Stskeeps	me and ali1234 did work that showed it can be removed with ~20 lines of packaging modifications	19:46
Stskeeps	:P	19:46
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RST38h	Moo,ladies and gentlemen	19:46
slonopotamus	Stskeeps: why you didn't do that?	19:47
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: i don't do the x86 side of things, but i have a i486 port of my minimal core work	19:47
slonopotamus	i see (well, sort of)	19:48
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* npm wonders if nightmare of "zillion xml http requests between it and the other apps" is the future of meego under tizen		19:58
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thiago	npm: instead of making function calls and loading libraries, applications will encode stuff into JSON or XML, open network connections and send via TCP/IP to localhost?	20:01
npm	i've seen a system and company waste bazillions on this (DIRECTV DVR)	20:01
npm	basically the system spent all its time garbage collecting all the strings it was sending to itself	20:02
npm	and collecting garbage from the parser	20:03
thiago	I think that HTML5 will eventually be the de-facto choice for making apps, but not directly	20:03
npm	people should build a gargbage collector or two (like i have) before being allowed to use them	20:03
thiago	there will be toolkits on top of HTML5, like phonegap or sencha's	20:04
npm	screw all that crap http://code.google.com/p/qtzibit/	20:04
thiago	the problem is that I don't think that days has arrived	20:04
npm	:-)	20:04
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npm	best of both worldsd	20:04
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npm	http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit_0_1_0.i586.rpm	20:05
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npm	(n9/n950 http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit_0_1_0_armel.deb )	20:08
npm	the days are close, but why inflict the wrong UI for the job on developers?	20:09
npm	let people use what they want. give them qt and qtwebkit and let them build web based apps if it helps http://code.google.com/p/qtzibit/ and use QML or Qt Mobility for what its good for	20:10
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thiago	yup	20:11
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npm	but without a significant and high-level semantic-web-ready framework (like i attempt in qtzibit using http://www.simile-widgets.org/exhibit ) the web efforts are going to be pretty pedestrian	20:12
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npm	and it is going to take significant effort to scale web frameworks to handle data-models of size handled routinely by Qt	20:12
npm	the toy demos look great so kudos to the marketing people for fooling the suits in to all this bullshit	20:13
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npm	for example in http://www.simile-widgets.org/exhibit3/ they can now with the brightest minds at MIT behind it... "Browse 100k items"	20:14
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npm	hopefully at least MeeGo can become a case study in some MBA program at some biz school alongside netflix and WebOS	20:18
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CosmoHill	if (file_exists($display))	21:04
CosmoHill	{	21:04
CosmoHill	$display = $display;	21:04
CosmoHill	}	21:04
CosmoHill	did I really write that....	21:05
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Sazpaimon	are there any visual improvements on meego 1.3?	21:19
Stskeeps	it certainly performs bette	21:20
Stskeeps	rr	21:20
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Sazpaimon	Stskeeps, I mean how it looks	21:22
Stskeeps	ah, well, hmm	21:22
Stskeeps	:P	21:22
Stskeeps	in what UX?	21:22
Stskeeps	:P	21:22
Sazpaimon	handset, specifically	21:22
mikeleib	we've switched to a tcl/tk based UX ;)	21:23
Sazpaimon	i only have a class 2 32gb microsd card, so I definately wont see any speed improvements on that	21:23
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Stskeeps	mikeleib: ah, so only slightly as bad as EFL!	21:23
Stskeeps	;)	21:23
Stskeeps	Sazpaimon: #meego-arm is prolly better for those questions	21:23
* mikeleib laughs so hard he cries		21:23
Stskeeps	Sazpaimon: and i think you might even see improvement on class 2	21:23
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Sazpaimon	my card is formatted to HFS+ now so I'll have to see what I need to offload before i re-format it	21:24
Sazpaimon	dont even remember why i formatted it to thqt	21:24
Sazpaimon	*that	21:24
Sazpaimon	oh right, I was using it as external storage on my xbox 360	21:25
Sazpaimon	360 supports hfs+ and i figured it'd be better for a larger volume	21:25
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t7^	hmm	21:29
beford	that's weird because not even windows supports hfs	21:29
t7^	a silly question perhaps, can these microsd cards be called a ssd card?	21:29
SpeedEvil	Sure	21:29
t7^	like they both have, umm, non-moving parts right? unlike the hdds which have movings heads on magnetic material	21:29
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SpeedEvil	SD cards are SSD - with typically rather bad controlers	21:29
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t7^	hmmm	21:30
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Sazpaimon	beford, 360 supports it because people will plug their ipods into it	21:31
Sazpaimon	support is very basic, I think it's read-only	21:32
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Sazpaimon	but on a modified 360 you can actually launch games on an HFS+ partition	21:32
beford	ah ok	21:32
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