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| Venemo | hmm | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| Venemo | MeeGo is a lot better experience than win7 starter on my ideapad. | 00:08 |
| Venemo | however, the fan is continuously on... and it eats the battery. | 00:08 |
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| Venemo | right after the system boots, the fan starts and it never stops | 00:11 |
| Venemo | is that even normal? | 00:12 |
| RST38h | well. broken power management. | 00:12 |
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| RST38h | that is linux. | 00:12 |
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| Venemo | I thought the atom on the ideapad should have more than enough power management, at least on MeeGo | 00:12 |
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| RST38h | evidently, you thought wrong. | 00:13 |
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| Venemo | but at this pace, I don't understand how others are getting any good battery life out of this thing. | 00:13 |
| Venemo | npm said he has 8-10 hours with a 8-cell battery. okay, mine has a 4-cell battery, but it's not gonna be 4-5 hours. | 00:13 |
| Venemo | I've used it on battery for 1:15 and it's on 50% now. | 00:14 |
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| ShadowJK | that's worse than a regular linux distro on my 6-cell atom netbook :) | 00:16 |
| Venemo | indeed | 00:16 |
| Venemo | OK, maybe the zypper update took a toll on the battery | 00:16 |
| Venemo | but I don't think it is supposed to be this much | 00:16 |
| Venemo | maybe I'm missing a setting somewhere? | 00:17 |
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| ShadowJK | x86 is kinda weird anyway, atleast when there's SMM involved doing weird thinga behind your back, potentially configurable or controllable through unpublished APIs | 00:18 |
| Venemo | that's okay, but the very same device works for other people | 00:18 |
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| Venemo | what the F*? pulseaudio uses 17% CPU, and I'm not even playing music | 00:27 |
| Venemo | and chromium uses 10% | 00:27 |
| Venemo | but 27% cpu load (esp. on an atom) should not generate so much heat. | 00:28 |
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| alterego | Hrm, how to clone the n900 meego repositories. | 00:34 |
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| npm | Venemo -- that's if i'm not doing much. add a browser with flash ads and forget your battery life | 00:39 |
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| Venemo | npm, how much is not much? :P | 00:40 |
| npm | i.e. typing text into emacs and no compiling | 00:40 |
| npm | if powertop says somethings chewing cycles you won't get batterylife | 00:40 |
| Venemo | npm, and it's now MeeGoLem time! | 00:40 |
| Venemo | 'zypper search' returns no results for too many things... | 00:41 |
| Venemo | or maybe I should just demolist MeeGo and go with Fedora. dunno yet. | 00:41 |
| npm | sudo zypper clean --all | 00:41 |
| Venemo | netbook UX looks nice (the parts developed by Intel), but it's an antiquated gnome 2 stack otherwise | 00:42 |
| npm | sudo zypper --gpg-auto-import-keys refresh | 00:42 |
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| Venemo | npm, what will those do? | 00:42 |
| npm | give you your packages if things setup correctly | 00:42 |
| Venemo | umm | 00:43 |
| npm | and you may need to rerun them when fedora updates, due to either zypper bug or that it doesn't like foreing repos | 00:43 |
| Venemo | ok | 00:43 |
| npm | if you don't, then you won't see their updates | 00:43 |
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| npm | Venemo: pulsaudio is a prime suspect in all battery life fups | 00:43 |
| Venemo | but then, at the end, all I will have is a half-broken MeeGo with Fedora stuff on top... so... why not just install Fedora then? | 00:43 |
| npm | i call it "a waste of batteries" | 00:44 |
| npm | since it's stupid to use a mobile CPU as a digital mixer when you can just have a few more A/Ds and D/As and a couple of resistors (aka analog mixing) | 00:44 |
| Venemo | :D | 00:44 |
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| Venemo | npm, honestly: I like gnome-shell's animations more than the netbook ux's. | 00:45 |
| Venemo | the tabs are nice, but it's annying that they disappear in apps | 00:45 |
| npm | one ofthe other batlife problems is if pulseaudio doesn't shut down when no audio is playing (it doesn't) | 00:45 |
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| Venemo | I like the Intel-designed stuff overall, but dislike the antiquated gnome parts. | 00:45 |
| npm | so often you have to shutdown any apps that might do audio, even if they're not playing anything | 00:45 |
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| Venemo | npm, well... PA has been always behaving well for me on Fedora | 00:46 |
| npm | the one good thing about the netbook UX is it is stable | 00:46 |
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| Venemo | yeah I know | 00:46 |
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| Venemo | that's why I use it :) | 00:46 |
| npm | other than that i'd prefer an update to gnomeshell | 00:46 |
| npm | but actually i'd rather see the work go into KDE | 00:47 |
| npm | which makes more sense from the Qt-everywhere perspective | 00:47 |
| Venemo | KDE's UX is nowhere near as superior as Gnome shell | 00:47 |
| alterego | Qt works in gnome too :P | 00:47 |
| Venemo | but I hear they're making progress in this front | 00:47 |
| Venemo | not sure of the result of such work. | 00:47 |
| npm | i use KDE w/ lots of gnome apps :-) | 00:47 |
| Venemo | in any case, if MeeGo can't keep up with newer package versions, it should more directly base itself on Fedora | 00:48 |
| Venemo | npm, I use Gnome with some KDE apps (such as Konvi) | 00:48 |
| npm | but i did fire up f15 alpha back in the day to see how it worked and it seemed like a good "next generation" to netbook UX | 00:48 |
| Venemo | npm, that it is | 00:48 |
| * Venemo wants a MeeGo sticker instead of the wincrap sticker | 00:49 | |
| CosmoHill | Venemo: you wouldn't be saying that if it actually read "wincrap" | 00:50 |
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| Venemo | CosmoHill, maybe! | 00:50 |
| Venemo | :P | 00:50 |
| npm | i peeled my windows sticker but left the intel stickers | 00:51 |
| CosmoHill | I have a Windows Vista sticker on my notepad | 00:51 |
| CosmoHill | (made of paper_ | 00:51 |
| CosmoHill | friend peeled it off her laptop and put it on my book | 00:51 |
| Venemo | lol! | 00:52 |
| CosmoHill | explains why it's full of crap and illegible hand writing >.> | 00:52 |
| CosmoHill | and the nazi symbol <.< | 00:52 |
| npm | sorry intel but my desktop has ASUS and AMD PhenomII stickers on it :-) | 00:52 |
| CosmoHill | npm: my desktop has Intel Celeron and Nvidia stickers on it but has an Intel Core 2 Quad and Intel GMA 4500 graphics | 00:53 |
| Venemo | and I don't have a desktop! | 00:53 |
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| Venemo | but my laptop is a core 2 duo + nvidia | 00:54 |
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| npm | my laptop is my meego netbook :-) | 00:54 |
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| npm | or the 3.4 G Pentium lapburner that's in pieces downstairs, and probably won't get reassembled | 00:55 |
| CosmoHill | if I move my laptop I can iron my bedding | 00:56 |
| berndhs | hmm PsyPost.org is following me on twitter, "research on human behavior and coginition" | 00:58 |
| berndhs | did I do something unusual ? | 00:58 |
| CosmoHill | berndhs: everything? | 00:58 |
| berndhs | as long as they don't look me up for their observations | 00:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | Touchpad - at QVC | 02:17 |
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| digitalsky | hi | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - nvm - gone | 02:21 |
| digitalsky | i'm new to this channel. is this the right place to talk about meego image creator? | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a right place | 02:21 |
| berndhs | it's worth a try | 02:21 |
| digitalsky | ok. :) | 02:21 |
| digitalsky | so i'm trying to run mic on ubuntu 11.04 and i'm running into problems if I don't use --bootstrap option | 02:22 |
| digitalsky | I've emailed Yi Yang and he said that the --bootstrap option is obsolete, and that mic would automatically create a bootstrap when run in the ubuntu OS | 02:23 |
| alterego | You have to use bootstrap level 2 | 02:24 |
| digitalsky | the problem when I run without --bootstrap is, when mic tries to create the bootstrap, it complains that a lot of packages are not found | 02:24 |
| digitalsky | what's bootstrap level 2? | 02:24 |
| alterego | Sorry, I think I'm getting confused. | 02:24 |
| digitalsky | oh | 02:25 |
| alterego | It's been a while since I've used mic | 02:25 |
| alterego | I thought there was a --runlevel argument or something. | 02:25 |
| digitalsky | oh it's worth mentioning that i git cloned from the image-creator.git, and am using the latest mic (as of 8/26) | 02:25 |
| digitalsky | i did a make && sudo make install, and that's the mic i'm running with. | 02:26 |
| digitalsky | at first i followed the instructions here: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation to create a separate bootstrap, then use the --bootstrap arg with mic2. everything was fine | 02:27 |
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| digitalsky | however, i want to be able to build without the bootstrap, as Yi claimed was possible. | 02:27 |
| digitalsky | he said "Because you're using Ubuntu, mic-image-creator will create bootstrap without any extra options." | 02:27 |
| digitalsky | ie without --bootstrap | 02:27 |
| digitalsky | but that's where i'm running into problems | 02:27 |
| digitalsky | would anyone here have any ideas about this? | 02:28 |
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| podescape | re | 08:27 |
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| Venemo | morning | 10:47 |
| Venemo | it seems that receiving a notification while watching a fullscreen flash video crashes the netbook UX... (it becomes non-responsive) | 10:48 |
| Venemo | so I shut down the ideapad with long-press power button and now MeeGo doesn't boot at all, not even into runlevel 3 | 10:50 |
| dm8tbr | interesting | 10:51 |
| Venemo | a similar incident happened to my laptop once, and it was btrfs's fault | 10:52 |
| dm8tbr | yeah, I was going to say, the boot problem might be unrelated to the lock-up | 10:52 |
| Venemo | but removing 'quiet' from MeeGo' kernel line didn't get rid of the graphical boot screen, so I couldn't see any releavan errors. | 10:52 |
| dm8tbr | more a result of fs corruption due to hard shutdown | 10:52 |
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| Venemo | s/relevan/relevant | 10:53 |
| dm8tbr | check if there are two 'quiet' statements | 10:53 |
| dm8tbr | it used to be on tabet IIRC | 10:53 |
| Venemo | heh, ok | 10:53 |
| dm8tbr | or was it netbook? | 10:53 |
| dm8tbr | yeah, classy... | 10:53 |
| dm8tbr | but intel doesn't really seem to care about netbook | 10:53 |
| Venemo | this is the netbook ux image, yes | 10:54 |
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| Venemo | it would be very-very nice for a real netbook, and less so for this half-tablet ideapad :) | 10:54 |
| Venemo | maybe I'll try out the tablet ux "developer preview" | 10:56 |
| dm8tbr | I'd go for the 1.2.0.x builds of tablet. | 10:56 |
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| dm8tbr | they looked more usable last time I tried | 10:56 |
| Venemo | dm8tbr, I only found this: https://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.2/meego-tablet-developer-preview | 10:57 |
| Venemo | dm8tbr, where are the newer ones? | 10:57 |
| dm8tbr | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/snapshots/testing/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.13.20110811.83/images/ | 10:57 |
| dm8tbr | that's right now the latest from the 1.2.1 target branch | 10:58 |
| Venemo | ok, oaktrail or pinetrail? | 10:58 |
| dm8tbr | it's your hardware :) | 10:58 |
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| Venemo | dm8tbr, Atom N450 I think... | 11:01 |
| dm8tbr | that's a pineview | 11:01 |
| Venemo | according to Intel, this stuff even supports x86_64... and MeeGo only has an i586 image... what a pity. | 11:02 |
| Venemo | dm8tbr, ok, so which image should I download? oaktrail or pinetrail, or neither will work? | 11:03 |
| timoph | pine | 11:04 |
| Venemo | ok | 11:05 |
| timoph | haven't tried tablet images with ideapad in a long time so dunno how well it works in it | 11:06 |
| Venemo | ok, no problem | 11:07 |
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| Venemo | dm8tbr, no, there are no two quiet parameters | 11:09 |
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| dm8tbr | worst case you'll have to compile your own kernel to get better/full functionality | 11:09 |
| dm8tbr | hmmm, no idea then, maybe loading the kernel fails all together? | 11:09 |
| Venemo | and removing that one doesn't seem to get rid of the graphical boot screen. | 11:09 |
| Venemo | well it does load and display some error messages, and then it goes to the MeeGo logo with that screen and it halts. | 11:10 |
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| Dekans | hello | 12:01 |
| Dekans | I've installed the QtSDK, but I don't manage to find the repo URL for meego targets | 12:01 |
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| Venemo_ | trying to reinstall MeeGo to the ideapad, but now the installer gets stuck at "Generating SSH1 RSA host key". | 12:07 |
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| lcuk | Venemo_, reinstalling it already? | 12:11 |
| Venemo_ | lcuk, it broke. | 12:11 |
| Venemo_ | lcuk, please see http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2011-09-10.log.html#t2011-09-10T10:48:09 - maybe you know the answer :) | 12:11 |
| annma | Dekans: what OS did you install Meego SDK? | 12:11 |
| lcuk | Venemo_, well if you are reinstalling it wouldn't matter now :P | 12:12 |
| Dekans | annma: Kubuntu 11.04, and it's the QtSDK from Nokia | 12:12 |
| Venemo_ | lcuk, let's hope that the installer will work now... | 12:12 |
| Venemo_ | but no | 12:12 |
| Venemo_ | I dd'd the image again (in case it was corrupted), and again it's stuck at "Generating SSH1 RSA host key" | 12:13 |
| annma | Dekans: so yo uwant to add only ia32 targets? | 12:13 |
| lcuk | Venemo_, press some keys, generate some randomness | 12:13 |
| Venemo_ | it doesn't respond to anything but long-press power key. | 12:14 |
| Dekans | annma: yes | 12:14 |
| Dekans | for netbook or tablet | 12:14 |
| Venemo_ | and if I try to boot MeeGo from the live image, it fails to boot too! | 12:15 |
| Venemo_ | what the hell. | 12:15 |
| annma | Dekans: I am trying the same on OpenSuse but it's unclear what repos to add | 12:16 |
| Dekans | annma: I search on the web, and I don't find any madde repo URL for Meego | 12:17 |
| Dekans | :( | 12:17 |
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| annma | Dekans: there's an installer http://developer.meego.com/meego-sdk | 12:19 |
| annma | however it installs qtcreator as well | 12:19 |
| annma | you can uncheck it but I am not sure if this installer will find your current QtSDK | 12:20 |
| Dekans | I'd prefer to not replace the 'normal' QtCreator | 12:20 |
| Venemo_ | so what now? | 12:20 |
| Dekans | I just want the targets | 12:21 |
| Venemo_ | did I acquire a hw defect so soon? | 12:21 |
| annma | Dekans: try install only the targets | 12:21 |
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| annma | Dekans: what I did is I installed the Meego SDK system wide and the latest QtSDK in my home dir | 12:22 |
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| Dekans | yep | 12:22 |
| Dekans | I downloaded it, currentl trying :) | 12:22 |
| Dekans | I seems OK, I can check only the targets | 12:23 |
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| Venemo_ | ok, I tried booting in runlevel 3 and 1, and with nomodeset. without any success | 12:36 |
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| Venemo_ | also tried booting the older kernel, no success either | 12:39 |
| Venemo_ | and the installer still fails at "Generating SSH1 RSA host key" | 12:40 |
| SpeedEvil | freezing at hostjey geeneration is something I've heard from other context | 12:42 |
| SpeedEvil | It means the ssh daemon has used up all the entropy in the randomness pool, and is waiting ofr more. | 12:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | On normal systems, this would be generated by network packets, exact timing of key and mouse events, ... | 12:43 |
| Venemo_ | SpeedEvil, that sounds very nice, but what's the solution? :) | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | hard disk access times | 12:43 |
| thiago | and you only do it once | 12:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | Try leaving it a few minutes - can you plug in a USB keyboard? | 12:44 |
| Venemo_ | no I don't have one | 12:44 |
| Venemo_ | I use its own keyboard. | 12:44 |
| thiago | press some keys on it | 12:45 |
| thiago | don't hold one down | 12:45 |
| thiago | the best is to type something meaningful | 12:45 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - a device with a keyboard - how quaint. | 12:45 |
| thiago | lol | 12:46 |
| thiago | "Hello computer" | 12:46 |
| Venemo_ | SpeedEvil, yeah, it's the ideapad | 12:46 |
| Venemo_ | great | 12:47 |
| Venemo_ | so when I was hitting some random keys while it was booting, it did generate an SSH1 RSA key, but now it's stuck at SSH2 RSA key. | 12:48 |
| Venemo_ | lol | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | moar keys | 12:48 |
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| Venemo_ | nothing happens | 12:48 |
| Venemo_ | this is some kind of a joke, right? :P | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It's an issue wth some devices that don't generate enough randomness | 12:49 |
| SpeedEvil | and some boot scripts that generate the ssh keys before they've enabled devices which require randomness | 12:49 |
| SpeedEvil | which generate randomness | 12:49 |
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| Venemo_ | SpeedEvil, it didn't have any trouble with these yesterday. | 12:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Has the image changed? | 12:52 |
| Venemo_ | no | 12:52 |
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| Venemo | but i'll try with the tablet image now too, perhaps it'll work | 12:52 |
| Venemo | NOOOOO | 12:55 |
| Venemo | guess where it stuck | 12:55 |
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| Dekans | annma: I don't see how to add the tooclhain in QtCreator now | 12:56 |
| Dekans | there's no qmake | 12:56 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, what I don't understant is, why did it work yesterday, and why doesn't it work now? | 12:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | Good question. | 12:57 |
| Venemo | I will try a Fedora live image too | 12:59 |
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| bruce-one | exit | 13:17 |
| bruce-one | e/exit | 13:17 |
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| Venemo | SpeedEvil, is this "randomness pool" a hardware or a software thing? | 13:22 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, do you happen to know anything about this? | 13:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Venemo: software | 13:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: /dev/random and /dev/urandom | 13:30 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, /dev/urandom is faster but less secure, right? | 13:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Various kernel drivers add entropy to the pool. | 13:30 |
| SpeedEvil | /dev/urandom will not block when it runs out of entropy /random will | 13:31 |
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| Venemo | so can I instruct the MeeGo installer to use /dev/urandom | 13:31 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, yes. | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | See man random | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | man urandom | 13:32 |
| Venemo | umm, I can't get it to a point where I would get a terminal... | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I always thought urandom is actually a pseudorandom algo with a seed taken from random eventually | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | It gets fed 'spare' entropy - and reseeded as time goes along | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway a dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdh9 is a poor idea to delete a HDD | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: I mean on any system | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the entropy might as well get generated from a true hw noise generator, for systems run by real paranoids | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | the DIY instructions in interweb are zillion | 13:37 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, very interesting text | 13:37 |
| Venemo | however I dunno how to get the MeeGo installer to do as I want it to do. | 13:37 |
| Venemo | nor do I know how to get my borked MeeGo system to give me a root terminal so that I can fix it. | 13:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: re urandom: it's often created rather late in bootup process | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I dunno the meego startup scripts etc, so can't comment about /dev/* | 13:57 |
| Venemo | meh | 13:58 |
| Venemo | so how can I get it to generate those friggin keys for me? | 13:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | errr, do that on host PC during install? | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | or mknod -m 644 /dev/random c 1 8 | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | while this is very likely to give extremely poor random during an install, as there's been no chance yet to gather any entropy | 14:01 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, problem is, I have no way to get to a shell. | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, nfc. never touched the meego installer | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | the maintainer should've taken care about keys, no? | 14:03 |
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| Venemo | dunno | 14:04 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps, do you have an idea about this issue? | 14:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | Does it have a trackpad? | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | trackpads are good at making entropy | 14:08 |
| Venemo | it doesn't seem to matter how many keys I press, or how many clicks I make with the usb mouse, or what do with the touchpad | 14:10 |
| Venemo | it's just stuck there | 14:10 |
| SpeedEvil | odd | 14:10 |
| Venemo | idea: I'll remove the hdd, insert the hdd into my laptop and install meego here. | 14:11 |
| Venemo | then I'll put the hdd back and see it it's working. | 14:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >> The [[/proc/sys/kernel/random/]] read-only files uuid and boot_id contain random strings like 6fd5a44b-35f4-4ad4-a9b9-6b9be13e1fe9. The former is generated afresh for each read, the latter was generated once. << | 14:13 |
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| Dekans | So, anyone uses the Nokia QtSQK for Meego development ? | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually a " read; date +%N " gives a fairly good random seed | 14:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | may be quantised. | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | good enough for an initial ssh key anyway | 14:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - busybox date outputs a very repetitive string for that. :) | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw I'd like to see this awesome clean system that quantisizes the %N of date | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeew messybox, you ruin my day | 14:22 |
| dm8tbr | if not, go with debian ssh ;o) | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I know that I've had a system that quantised it to jiffies | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed, I always thought ssh-keygen takes care of generating enough entropy | 14:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: so, like, only >=1000 possible seeds for a dsa-key? terrible for an initial login key | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-) | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | 100 | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | It was some time ago. | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm - the only 2.4 box I have up only has busybox | 14:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | read; date %N; read; date %N; read; date %N | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | then | 14:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, I don't see ssh-keygen failing on low entropy. Maybe it's failing on too few entropy input | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've seen ssh-keygen taking minutes to finsih | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 14:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | If the kernel drivers are not peoperly feeding back entropy - or it's not doing calls that cause those drivers to do things that cause those drivers to feed back entropy - it will block hard | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | And never complete | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if it's built against /dev/[u]random | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | the standard adbice with ssh-keygen been since decades: "press keys on kbd, move mouse, so it can gather entropy faster" | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | on certain architectures there may be rather few entropy sources available during installation | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe even none | 14:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | I've seen this before as a complaint on rackmount systems | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | (just figure non-std kbd and touchpad drivers) | 14:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway all this are good reasons why you should either generate the keys on installation host system and then copy to target, or provide some entropy to target from host (dd if=/dev/urandom of=/installsource/tmp/entropy-for-ssh-keygen bs=32) | 14:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Or configure the kernel to do things properly, and postpone keygen till after X comes up | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah :-D | 14:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why do you need a ssh key during installation anyway? | 14:41 |
| Venemo | fuckyeah... guess what happened! the ideapad could boot the Fedora installation from my laptop's HDD... but then it can't boot the freshly-reinstalled MeeGo installation. | 14:41 |
| SpeedEvil | debateable | 14:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd not expect to install a machine on the other hemisphere, over unprotected TCP via internet ;-) | 14:42 |
| Venemo | and it also borked Fedora on my laptop's HDD, now it boots with a message saying /dev/sda3 is inconsistent and drops me into a "debug shell", whatever that is. | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 14:43 |
| Venemo | obviously none of the commands I know (ls, whoami, etc.) works in this debug shell. | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I feel with you | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ls shoud work | 14:43 |
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| ysss | I'm currently in au. I can make your kinky 'other hemisphere' dream come true if you want. | 14:43 |
| SpeedEvil | possibly a bootloader shel? | 14:43 |
| SpeedEvil | help | 14:43 |
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| Venemo | possible. | 14:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | debug shell is usually init -s | 14:44 |
| Venemo | it says that I need to fsck /dev/sda3 manually, but there is no fsck in that shell. | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | on sysV-init ;-P | 14:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unlikely | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the shell shall know the cmds in /sbin | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | not though those in /usr/sbin | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | the whole rationale behind /usr | 14:45 |
| Venemo | not even tab completions work in this crap | 14:45 |
| SpeedEvil | e2fsck | 14:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | pwd, echo *, and other similar builtins? | 14:45 |
| SpeedEvil | (echo * = poor mans ls) | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: what does it answer if you enter the command foobar-FU | 14:46 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, can't test, I now booted to windows to share my pain with you. | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 14:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: accept a pragmatic tip? boot a live CD, start a rescue system, run fsck from there | 14:47 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, yeah, that's what I should do, but i have no spare CDs here. | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | that debug shell is a PITA usually | 14:48 |
| Venemo | in the meantime, I have no logical explanation why the ideapad didn't boot from the reinstalled MeeGo. | 14:48 |
| Venemo | which was the whole point of this shit. | 14:49 |
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| Venemo | hey CosmoHill :) | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway all hail to meego installer, which seems great for nuking existing system installations | 14:49 |
| CosmoHill | hello | 14:49 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, that wasn't the meego installer | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 14:50 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I just grabbed the hdd from my laptop, put it into the ideapad, and booted it. then shutdown and I put it back. | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I uttered that rant as I seem to recall a complaint about meego installer being worse than win98 regarding grabbing all available disk soace and nuking it | 14:51 |
| Venemo | that I don't know. | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | space* | 14:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I should shut up, as - I mentioned it - I never have even touched meego installer | 14:52 |
| Venemo | now on my last try, it still does not want to generate that fucking rsa key. | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | give it time | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | some 5 minutes at least | 14:53 |
| Venemo | it's been running since 15 minutes. | 14:53 |
| Venemo | and doing nothing | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like ass-kicking-time then | 14:54 |
| Venemo | sure, whose ass should I kick? | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | maintainer, system, installer? dunno | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I know you'll need heavy boots | 14:54 |
| Venemo | I see a slight possiblity that the ideapad's hdd is faulty, or became faulty when I unpowered it while it froze yesterday. | 14:55 |
| Venemo | I have no other hdd at hand to test. | 14:55 |
| Venemo | meh. | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | unlikely | 14:55 |
| Venemo | well. it booted from my laptop's hdd, but it doesn't want to boot from its own hdd. | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | errhmm | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got it as "it hangs on ssh-keygen" | 14:56 |
| Venemo | or maybe it tries to generate a new ssh key at bootup time and fails? :D .D | 14:56 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, that's the installer. | 14:56 |
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| Venemo | since I didn't find any way to get rid of the graphical boot screen and gather meaningful error messages, I dunno what's wrong with the installed MeeGo system. | 14:57 |
| Venemo | all I know is 1) noone is able to tell me how to get meaningful error messages out of meego's boot process 2) noone is able to tell me how to make the meego installer generate rsa keys on my ideapad | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm out, I think there are, like, 396 users in that channel who are more qualified then me to help you out | 14:59 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, if there are, why aren't they saying anything? :P | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe they got a RL, unlike me | 15:00 |
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| Venemo | :D | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, my fav pub closed 60min early last night, due to lack of guests | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | quiet earth syndrome | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Earth | 15:01 |
| Venemo | hehe | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film) actually | 15:02 |
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| Venemo | well anyway | 15:02 |
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| Venemo | I wasted half my day on this shit already. | 15:02 |
| Venemo | I'm beginning to get angry. | 15:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: try installing a "standard" OS to the ideapad, sth that's known to work flawlessly | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | to check if HDD plays nice | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | or even boot to an auxiliary OS from USB stick or sth, and simply check the HDD from there | 15:14 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I'll do that. | 15:14 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, currently downloading sysrescd, will write that to a USB drive | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | man badblocks | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | -nsv | 15:19 |
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| rcg | does anyone know how to disable the window transition animation in the meego netbook ux? | 15:29 |
| rcg | or at least set the duration to zero | 15:29 |
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| Venemo | you won't believe this! | 15:31 |
| Venemo | I took out the battery, put it back | 15:31 |
| Venemo | then tried meego installer again | 15:31 |
| Venemo | now it didn't have any trouble generating ssh keys | 15:31 |
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| rcg | ah.. the very famous fix your ssh issues by messing with the battery fix | 15:32 |
| rcg | scnr ;) | 15:32 |
| Venemo | hah | 15:33 |
| Venemo | well, I thought about how I installed it yesterday and what I did differently today. | 15:34 |
| rcg | well.. yeah.. as systems get more n more complex its kinda funny how some issues manifest | 15:35 |
| rcg | well.. at least its funny for those not suffering from these issues ;) | 15:35 |
| Venemo | xD | 15:35 |
| Venemo | in any case, what I miss from the netbook UX is an option to always display (don't hide) the tabs | 15:37 |
| rcg | yeah.. and i would like to disable the animations.. they really get in the way when you wanna work quickly with multiple documents and essentially render that alt+tab shortcut useless | 15:38 |
| Venemo | agreed | 15:38 |
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| Venemo | rcg, this is why I think gnome-shell may suit it better | 15:43 |
| lcuk | rcg, there is a bug about that I filed a while ago | 15:44 |
| lcuk | bug 10544 | 15:44 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10544 nor, Medium, ---, tf, RESO WONTFIX, Alt-Tab app order not reflected in applications | 15:44 |
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| Venemo | btw lcuk, you are right - the ideapad is a very nice little computer | 15:52 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, it's a pity that none of the UXes can harness its true potential | 15:52 |
| lcuk | who said they don't? | 15:52 |
| Venemo | I say. | 15:53 |
| lcuk | Venemo, what do you sexpect its true potential to be? | 15:53 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, a UX that is touch-friendly with apps that are touch-friendly | 15:54 |
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| Venemo | and a UI for quick multitasking | 15:55 |
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| berndhs | Venemo: yeah there doesn't seem to be one, meego or otherwise | 15:57 |
| Venemo | don't misunderstand me, I don't need much. I need a touch-friendly browser, chat app, email app, social network app, and a way to quickly switch between them. | 15:58 |
| berndhs | the quick switch concept seems to be missing from touch UXs in general, I'm not sure why | 15:59 |
| Venemo | berndhs, hildon desktop had it, so cordia may be an option | 16:00 |
| berndhs | as long as people don't have to use that programming framework | 16:01 |
| Venemo | berndhs, yeah. | 16:02 |
| Venemo | gnome-shell is also nice | 16:02 |
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| berndhs | gnome shell is a disaster, when it comes to quick switching to a new application | 16:03 |
| Venemo | not on tablets | 16:03 |
| berndhs | and with gnome-shell, you depend on the gnome folks, who are basically religious fundamentalists | 16:03 |
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| Venemo | berndhs, yeah, just like the kde folks or anyone else | 16:04 |
| berndhs | well, its still a bad crowd to work with | 16:04 |
| Venemo | yeah, unfortunatels | 16:04 |
| Venemo | y | 16:04 |
| berndhs | anyone who disagrees with even small details is subject to disrespect and ad-hominem stuff | 16:05 |
| berndhs | i'm making my own UX, will take some time though | 16:06 |
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| Venemo | berndhs, you are? | 16:07 |
| Venemo | berndhs, tell me about it :) | 16:07 |
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| berndhs | http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/moui/index.php?title=Requirements_and_Goals | 16:08 |
| berndhs | for boats, snowmobiles and farm tractors :) | 16:08 |
| Venemo | IVI? :P | 16:09 |
| rcg | Venemo.. yeah for working in the shell you have own shortcuts for switching tabs.. but i needed to work with quite a number of different pdf and openoffice documents recently | 16:10 |
| berndhs | well yes, but competing with BMW is not going to work | 16:10 |
| rcg | hmm lcuk i see.. but that bug is about the order of entries in alt-tab and not the animation, right? | 16:10 |
| lcuk | rcg the animation compounds the issue | 16:10 |
| rcg | aye ic | 16:11 |
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| berndhs | Venemo: the idea is that the device is not providing the entertainment http://berndhs.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/mobile-outdoor-user-interface/ | 16:11 |
| lcuk | i think a simple patch could be made, but IDK which lines to tweak | 16:11 |
| rcg | lcuk: hmm yeah.. was looking for some config file option or theming or the like | 16:12 |
| lcuk | I was on a bus the other day with its windows steamed up :) I drew a little sketch on the window and smiled | 16:12 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: how many trains do you have? | 16:13 |
| berndhs | lcuk: so you want the bus side windows interoperating with liqbase then ? | 16:13 |
| Venemo | berndhs, mhm :) | 16:14 |
| lcuk | berndhs, lol | 16:14 |
| lcuk | :) | 16:14 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, jake has a load of trains | 16:14 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk: I'm thinking of making some software that could cataloug them | 16:14 |
| npm | berndhs: interesting. is moui your own personal thing or is there some corporate/money backing ... is that related to MARSSA | 16:15 |
| berndhs | npm: it's mine, but I got the initial idea when talking to the MARSSA folks | 16:15 |
| berndhs | of course corporate backing would be most welcome | 16:16 |
| npm | i've been wanting to walk over to http://boingboing.net/2011/04/05/sir-richard-branson.html and sell them some meego | 16:16 |
| npm | (along with my services of course) | 16:16 |
| npm | http://www.virginoceanic.com/ ... | 16:17 |
| berndhs | yes those kinds of vehicles could use it too | 16:17 |
| npm | and they're in research phase so they might need some future-looking research-capable platforms to work with? | 16:17 |
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| Venemo | :) | 16:18 |
| berndhs | sounds like a plan for meego-CE core with moui UX :) | 16:18 |
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| npm | info [at] virginoceanic [dot] com | 16:24 |
| npm | ... | 16:24 |
| npm | i think nokia's "swipe" idea is a pretty good way of doing things, but it's probably patented | 16:26 |
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| npm | so i was thinking maybe the swipe idea could be replaced by sensing the direction of any offscreen-to-onscreen swipes | 16:27 |
| npm | and then spinning a "virtual globe" on which all your applications are mapped | 16:27 |
| npm | that way you have a sense of direction and layout and can navigate to where things are more easily | 16:28 |
| npm | somebody should do something like this as GPL before someone patents more ideas.... | 16:28 |
| berndhs | hmm | 16:29 |
| npm | ... basically you go into "virtual globe" mode (a 3d task switcher) wheever you get an offscreen-to-onscreen swipe | 16:29 |
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| npm | and then "focus" onto a different application and it goes fullscreen | 16:30 |
| npm | i guess since it's a square screen, perhaps use a virtual cube or something instead | 16:31 |
| npm | :-) | 16:31 |
| npm | i guess skinning means you could choose the "planet" onto which you organize all your apps | 16:32 |
| berndhs | so you start with a spinning galaxy and pick a planet ? | 16:33 |
| ysss | webs and playbook os (qnx based) already have swipes to manipulate task managerial actions | 16:34 |
| ysss | webos | 16:34 |
| npm | but chances are you'd get sued if you do anything close | 16:34 |
| npm | i think the first place i'd want something like that is a hack on the tablet-ux task switching, which is the biggest pain in the ass ever | 16:35 |
| lcuk | tablet ux already does swipes | 16:36 |
| npm | oh, let me find the invisible coil, specially placed in exactly where i might pick up the device... or accidentally power it off instead! | 16:36 |
| lcuk | it is in hildon even moreso | 16:37 |
| berndhs | if you're wearing gloves swipes don't work | 16:37 |
| berndhs | can't tell if its a gesture or if you're cleaning the screen | 16:37 |
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| npm | lock the screen, then clean | 16:37 |
| ysss | …. | 16:38 |
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| berndhs | or use a gesture that is less likely to happen accidentally, maybe a cross-swipe X | 16:38 |
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| Warthog | Hi, What does ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸ | 17:29 |
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| arfoll | { name = "#meego-ivi"; chatnet = "Freenode"; autojoin = "yes"; }, | 17:45 |
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| lcuk | good stuff arfoll | 17:49 |
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| arfoll | yeah its a copy and paste fail... | 17:51 |
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| Tumi_ | :D casual saturday | 21:09 |
| Myrtti | mm | 21:11 |
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| * TSCHAKeee casually wonders if we're ever going to see any wireless display tech working under Linux? | 21:18 | |
| Stskeeps | vnc over ip? | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | terminal mode? | 21:21 |
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| TSCHAKeee | sigh, no | 21:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | what ppl are calling Wi-Di or WHDI | 21:26 |
| berndhs | TSCHAKeee: you mean stuff like this http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/wtech/iwd/sb/CS-031109.htm ? | 21:28 |
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| TSCHAKeee | berndhs: exactly | 21:28 |
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| npm | will it meego? http://www.myviliv.com/eng/product/n5.asp http://www.myviliv.com/eng/product/x70ex.asp | 23:25 |
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| thiago | are you missing a verb in your sentence? Or are you using "meego" as a verb? | 23:25 |
| lcuk | npm looks cool | 23:26 |
| thiago | it looks like a regular netbook. Will probably run meego easily. | 23:27 |
| thiago | minus hw compatibility | 23:27 |
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| lcuk | npm, get one and add to http://wiki.meego.com/Developer_Devices | 23:28 |
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| npm | i'll pass. but hopefully somebody else will | 23:41 |
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