IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2011-09-10

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Venemohmm00:07
VenemoMeeGo is a lot better experience than win7 starter on my ideapad.00:08
Venemohowever, the fan is continuously on... and it eats the battery.00:08
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Venemoright after the system boots, the fan starts and it never stops00:11
Venemois that even normal?00:12
RST38hwell. broken power management.00:12
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RST38hthat is linux.00:12
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VenemoI thought the atom on the ideapad should have more than enough power management, at least on MeeGo00:12
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RST38hevidently, you thought wrong.00:13
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Venemobut at this pace, I don't understand how others are getting any good battery life out of this thing.00:13
Venemonpm said he has 8-10 hours with a 8-cell battery. okay, mine has a 4-cell battery, but it's not gonna be 4-5 hours.00:13
VenemoI've used it on battery for 1:15 and it's on 50% now.00:14
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ShadowJKthat's worse than a regular linux distro on my 6-cell atom netbook :)00:16
Venemoindeed00:16
VenemoOK, maybe the zypper update took a toll on the battery00:16
Venemobut I don't think it is supposed to be this much00:16
Venemomaybe I'm missing a setting somewhere?00:17
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ShadowJKx86 is kinda weird anyway, atleast when there's SMM involved doing weird thinga behind your back, potentially configurable or controllable through unpublished APIs00:18
Venemothat's okay, but the very same device works for other people00:18
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Venemowhat the F*? pulseaudio uses 17% CPU, and I'm not even playing music00:27
Venemoand chromium uses 10%00:27
Venemobut 27% cpu load (esp. on an atom) should not generate so much heat.00:28
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alteregoHrm, how to clone the n900 meego repositories.00:34
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npmVenemo -- that's if i'm not doing much. add a browser with flash ads and forget your battery life00:39
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Venemonpm, how much is not much? :P00:40
npmi.e. typing text into emacs and no compiling00:40
npmif powertop says somethings chewing cycles you won't get batterylife00:40
Venemonpm, and it's now MeeGoLem time!00:40
Venemo'zypper search' returns no results for too many things...00:41
Venemoor maybe I should just demolist MeeGo and go with Fedora. dunno yet.00:41
npmsudo zypper clean --all00:41
Venemonetbook UX looks nice (the parts developed by Intel), but it's an antiquated gnome 2 stack otherwise00:42
npmsudo zypper --gpg-auto-import-keys refresh00:42
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Venemonpm, what will those do?00:42
npmgive you your packages if things setup correctly00:42
Venemoumm00:43
npmand you may need to rerun them when fedora updates, due to either zypper bug or that it doesn't like foreing repos00:43
Venemook00:43
npmif you don't, then you won't see their updates00:43
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npmVenemo: pulsaudio is a prime suspect in all battery life fups00:43
Venemobut then, at the end, all I will have is a half-broken MeeGo with Fedora stuff on top... so... why not just install Fedora then?00:43
npmi call it "a waste of batteries"00:44
npmsince it's stupid to use a mobile CPU as a digital mixer when you can just have a few more A/Ds and D/As and a couple of resistors (aka analog mixing)00:44
Venemo:D00:44
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Venemonpm, honestly: I like gnome-shell's animations more than the netbook ux's.00:45
Venemothe tabs are nice, but it's annying that they disappear in apps00:45
npmone ofthe other batlife problems is if pulseaudio doesn't shut down when no audio is playing (it doesn't)00:45
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VenemoI like the Intel-designed stuff overall, but dislike the antiquated gnome parts.00:45
npmso often you have to shutdown any apps that might do audio, even if they're not playing anything00:45
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Venemonpm, well... PA has been always behaving well for me on Fedora00:46
npmthe one good thing about the netbook UX is it is stable00:46
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Venemoyeah I know00:46
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Venemothat's why I use it :)00:46
npmother than that i'd prefer an update to gnomeshell00:46
npmbut actually i'd rather see the work go into KDE00:47
npmwhich makes more sense from the Qt-everywhere perspective00:47
VenemoKDE's UX is nowhere near as superior as Gnome shell00:47
alteregoQt works in gnome too :P00:47
Venemobut I hear they're making progress in this front00:47
Venemonot sure of the result of such work.00:47
npmi use KDE w/ lots of gnome apps :-)00:47
Venemoin any case, if MeeGo can't keep up with newer package versions, it should more directly base itself on Fedora00:48
Venemonpm, I use Gnome with some KDE apps (such as Konvi)00:48
npmbut i did fire up f15 alpha back in the day to see how it worked and it seemed like a good "next generation" to netbook UX00:48
Venemonpm, that it is00:48
* Venemo wants a MeeGo sticker instead of the wincrap sticker00:49
CosmoHillVenemo: you wouldn't be saying that if it actually read "wincrap"00:50
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VenemoCosmoHill, maybe!00:50
Venemo:P00:50
npmi peeled my windows sticker but left the intel stickers00:51
CosmoHillI have a Windows Vista sticker on my notepad00:51
CosmoHill(made of paper_00:51
CosmoHillfriend peeled it off her laptop and put it on my book00:51
Venemolol!00:52
CosmoHillexplains why it's full of crap and illegible hand writing >.>00:52
CosmoHilland the nazi symbol <.<00:52
npmsorry intel but my desktop has ASUS and AMD PhenomII stickers on it :-)00:52
CosmoHillnpm: my desktop has Intel Celeron and Nvidia stickers on it but has an Intel Core 2 Quad and Intel GMA 4500 graphics00:53
Venemoand I don't have a desktop!00:53
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Venemobut my laptop is a core 2 duo + nvidia00:54
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npmmy laptop is my meego netbook :-)00:54
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npmor the 3.4 G Pentium lapburner that's in pieces downstairs, and probably won't get reassembled00:55
CosmoHillif I move my laptop I can iron my bedding00:56
berndhshmm PsyPost.org is following me on twitter, "research on human behavior and coginition"00:58
berndhsdid I do something unusual ?00:58
CosmoHillberndhs: everything?00:58
berndhsas long as they don't look me up for their observations00:59
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SpeedEvilTouchpad - at QVC02:17
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digitalskyhi02:20
SpeedEvilah - nvm - gone02:21
digitalskyi'm new to this channel.  is this the right place to talk about meego image creator?02:21
SpeedEvilIt's a right place02:21
berndhsit's worth a try02:21
digitalskyok. :)02:21
digitalskyso i'm trying to run mic on ubuntu 11.04 and i'm running into problems if I don't use --bootstrap option02:22
digitalskyI've emailed Yi Yang and he said that the --bootstrap option is obsolete, and that mic would automatically create a bootstrap when run in the ubuntu OS02:23
alteregoYou have to use bootstrap level 202:24
digitalskythe problem when I run without --bootstrap is, when mic tries to create the bootstrap, it complains that a lot of packages are not found02:24
digitalskywhat's bootstrap level 2?02:24
alteregoSorry, I think I'm getting confused.02:24
digitalskyoh02:25
alteregoIt's been a while since I've used mic02:25
alteregoI thought there was a --runlevel argument or something.02:25
digitalskyoh it's worth mentioning that i git cloned from the image-creator.git, and am using the latest mic (as of 8/26)02:25
digitalskyi did a make && sudo make install, and that's the mic i'm running with.02:26
digitalskyat first i followed the instructions here: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation  to create a separate bootstrap, then use the --bootstrap arg with mic2. everything was fine02:27
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digitalskyhowever, i want to be able to build without the bootstrap, as Yi claimed was possible.02:27
digitalskyhe said "Because you're using Ubuntu, mic-image-creator will create bootstrap without any extra options."02:27
digitalskyie without --bootstrap02:27
digitalskybut that's where i'm running into problems02:27
digitalskywould anyone here have any ideas about this?02:28
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Venemomorning10:47
Venemoit seems that receiving a notification while watching a fullscreen flash video crashes the netbook UX... (it becomes non-responsive)10:48
Venemoso I shut down the ideapad with long-press power button and now MeeGo doesn't boot at all, not even into runlevel 310:50
dm8tbrinteresting10:51
Venemoa similar incident happened to my laptop once, and it was btrfs's fault10:52
dm8tbryeah, I was going to say, the boot problem might be unrelated to the lock-up10:52
Venemobut removing 'quiet' from MeeGo' kernel line didn't get rid of the graphical boot screen, so I couldn't see any releavan errors.10:52
dm8tbrmore a result of fs corruption due to hard shutdown10:52
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Venemos/relevan/relevant10:53
dm8tbrcheck if there are two 'quiet' statements10:53
dm8tbrit used to be on tabet IIRC10:53
Venemoheh, ok10:53
dm8tbror was it netbook?10:53
dm8tbryeah, classy...10:53
dm8tbrbut intel doesn't really seem to care about netbook10:53
Venemothis is the netbook ux image, yes10:54
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Venemoit would be very-very nice for a real netbook, and less so for this half-tablet ideapad :)10:54
Venemomaybe I'll try out the tablet ux "developer preview"10:56
dm8tbrI'd go for the 1.2.0.x builds of tablet.10:56
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dm8tbrthey looked more usable last time I tried10:56
Venemodm8tbr, I only found this: https://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.2/meego-tablet-developer-preview10:57
Venemodm8tbr, where are the newer ones?10:57
dm8tbrhttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/snapshots/testing/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.13.20110811.83/images/10:57
dm8tbrthat's right now the latest from the 1.2.1 target branch10:58
Venemook, oaktrail or pinetrail?10:58
dm8tbrit's your hardware :)10:58
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Venemodm8tbr, Atom N450 I think...11:01
dm8tbrthat's a pineview11:01
Venemoaccording to Intel, this stuff even supports x86_64... and MeeGo only has an i586 image... what a pity.11:02
Venemodm8tbr, ok, so which image should I download? oaktrail or pinetrail, or neither will work?11:03
timophpine11:04
Venemook11:05
timophhaven't tried tablet images with ideapad in a long time so dunno how well it works in it11:06
Venemook, no problem11:07
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Venemodm8tbr, no, there are no two quiet parameters11:09
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dm8tbrworst case you'll have to compile your own kernel to get better/full functionality11:09
dm8tbrhmmm, no idea then, maybe loading the kernel fails all together?11:09
Venemoand removing that one doesn't seem to get rid of the graphical boot screen.11:09
Venemowell it does load and display some error messages, and then it goes to the MeeGo logo with that screen and it halts.11:10
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Dekanshello12:01
DekansI've installed the QtSDK, but I don't manage to find the repo URL for meego targets12:01
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Venemo_trying to reinstall MeeGo to the ideapad, but now the installer gets stuck at "Generating SSH1 RSA host key".12:07
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lcukVenemo_, reinstalling it already?12:11
Venemo_lcuk, it broke.12:11
Venemo_lcuk, please see http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2011-09-10.log.html#t2011-09-10T10:48:09 - maybe you know the answer :)12:11
annmaDekans: what OS did you install Meego SDK?12:11
lcukVenemo_, well if you are reinstalling it wouldn't matter now :P12:12
Dekansannma: Kubuntu 11.04, and it's the QtSDK from Nokia12:12
Venemo_lcuk, let's hope that the installer will work now...12:12
Venemo_but no12:12
Venemo_I dd'd the image again (in case it was corrupted), and again it's stuck at "Generating SSH1 RSA host key"12:13
annmaDekans: so yo uwant to add only ia32 targets?12:13
lcukVenemo_, press some keys, generate some randomness12:13
Venemo_it doesn't respond to anything but long-press power key.12:14
Dekansannma: yes12:14
Dekansfor netbook or tablet12:14
Venemo_and if I try to boot MeeGo from the live image, it fails to boot too!12:15
Venemo_what the hell.12:15
annmaDekans: I am trying the same on OpenSuse but it's unclear what repos to add12:16
Dekansannma: I search on the web, and I don't find any madde repo URL for Meego12:17
Dekans:(12:17
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annmaDekans: there's an installer http://developer.meego.com/meego-sdk12:19
annmahowever it installs qtcreator as well12:19
annmayou can uncheck it but I am not sure if this installer will find your current QtSDK12:20
DekansI'd prefer to not replace the 'normal' QtCreator12:20
Venemo_so what now?12:20
DekansI just want the targets12:21
Venemo_did I acquire a hw defect so soon?12:21
annmaDekans: try install only the targets12:21
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annmaDekans: what I did is I installed the Meego SDK system wide and the latest QtSDK in my home dir12:22
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Dekansyep12:22
DekansI downloaded it, currentl trying :)12:22
DekansI seems OK, I can check only the targets12:23
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Venemo_ok, I tried booting in runlevel 3 and 1, and with nomodeset. without any success12:36
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Venemo_also tried booting the older kernel, no success either12:39
Venemo_and the installer still fails at "Generating SSH1 RSA host key"12:40
SpeedEvilfreezing at hostjey geeneration is something I've heard from other context12:42
SpeedEvilIt means the ssh daemon has used up all the entropy in the randomness pool, and is waiting ofr more.12:43
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SpeedEvilOn normal systems, this would be generated by network packets, exact timing of key and mouse events, ...12:43
Venemo_SpeedEvil, that sounds very nice, but what's the solution? :)12:43
SpeedEvilhard disk access times12:43
thiagoand you only do it once12:44
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SpeedEvilTry leaving it a few minutes - can you plug in a USB keyboard?12:44
Venemo_no I don't have one12:44
Venemo_I use its own keyboard.12:44
thiagopress some keys on it12:45
thiagodon't hold one down12:45
thiagothe best is to type something meaningful12:45
SpeedEviloh - a device with a keyboard - how quaint.12:45
thiagolol12:46
thiago"Hello computer"12:46
Venemo_SpeedEvil, yeah, it's the ideapad12:46
Venemo_great12:47
Venemo_so when I was hitting some random keys while it was booting, it did generate an SSH1 RSA key, but now it's stuck at SSH2 RSA key.12:48
Venemo_lol12:48
SpeedEvilmoar keys12:48
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Venemo_nothing happens12:48
Venemo_this is some kind of a joke, right? :P12:48
SpeedEvilno12:48
SpeedEvilIt's an issue wth some devices that don't generate enough randomness12:49
SpeedEviland some boot scripts that generate the ssh keys before they've enabled devices which require randomness12:49
SpeedEvilwhich generate randomness12:49
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Venemo_SpeedEvil, it didn't have any trouble with these yesterday.12:50
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SpeedEvilHas the image changed?12:52
Venemo_no12:52
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Venemobut i'll try with the tablet image now too, perhaps it'll work12:52
VenemoNOOOOO12:55
Venemoguess where it stuck12:55
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Dekansannma: I don't see how to add the tooclhain in QtCreator now12:56
Dekansthere's no qmake12:56
VenemoSpeedEvil, what I don't understant is, why did it work yesterday, and why doesn't it work now?12:57
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SpeedEvilGood question.12:57
VenemoI will try a Fedora live image too12:59
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bruce-oneexit13:17
bruce-onee/exit13:17
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VenemoSpeedEvil, is this "randomness pool" a hardware or a software thing?13:22
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, do you happen to know anything about this?13:28
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SpeedEvilVenemo: software13:30
SpeedEvilVenemo: /dev/random and /dev/urandom13:30
VenemoSpeedEvil, /dev/urandom is faster but less secure, right?13:30
SpeedEvilVarious kernel drivers add entropy to the pool.13:30
SpeedEvil /dev/urandom will not block when it runs out of entropy /random will13:31
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Venemoso can I instruct the MeeGo installer to use /dev/urandom13:31
SpeedEvilIn principle, yes.13:32
SpeedEvilSee man random13:32
SpeedEvilman urandom13:32
Venemoumm, I can't get it to a point where I would get a terminal...13:32
DocScrutinizerI always thought urandom is actually a pseudorandom algo with a seed taken from random eventually13:33
SpeedEvilIt gets fed 'spare' entropy - and reseeded as time goes along13:35
DocScrutinizeranyway a dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sdh9 is a poor idea to delete a HDD13:35
SpeedEvilVenemo: I mean on any system13:35
DocScrutinizerand the entropy might as well get generated from a true hw noise generator, for systems run by real paranoids13:37
DocScrutinizerthe DIY instructions in interweb are zillion13:37
VenemoSpeedEvil, very interesting text13:37
Venemohowever I dunno how to get the MeeGo installer to do as I want it to do.13:37
Venemonor do I know how to get my borked MeeGo system to give me a root terminal so that I can fix it.13:43
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: re urandom: it's often created rather late in bootup process13:56
DocScrutinizerI dunno the meego startup scripts etc, so can't comment about /dev/*13:57
Venemomeh13:58
Venemoso how can I get it to generate those friggin keys for me?13:58
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DocScrutinizererrr, do that on host PC during install?13:59
DocScrutinizeror mknod -m 644 /dev/random c 1 814:00
DocScrutinizerwhile this is very likely to give extremely poor random during an install, as there's been no chance yet to gather any entropy14:01
VenemoDocScrutinizer, problem is, I have no way to get to a shell.14:02
DocScrutinizersorry, nfc. never touched the meego installer14:03
DocScrutinizerthe maintainer should've taken care about keys, no?14:03
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Venemodunno14:04
VenemoStskeeps, do you have an idea about this issue?14:04
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SpeedEvilDoes it have a trackpad?14:08
SpeedEviltrackpads are good at making entropy14:08
Venemoit doesn't seem to matter how many keys I press, or how many clicks I make with the usb mouse, or what do with the touchpad14:10
Venemoit's just stuck there14:10
SpeedEvilodd14:10
Venemoidea: I'll remove the hdd, insert the hdd into my laptop and install meego here.14:11
Venemothen I'll put the hdd back and see it it's working.14:11
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DocScrutinizer>> The [[/proc/sys/kernel/random/]] read-only files uuid and boot_id contain random strings like 6fd5a44b-35f4-4ad4-a9b9-6b9be13e1fe9.  The former is generated afresh for each read, the latter was generated once. <<14:13
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DekansSo, anyone uses the Nokia QtSQK for Meego development ?14:16
DocScrutinizerusually a " read; date +%N " gives a fairly good random seed14:17
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SpeedEvilmay be quantised.14:19
DocScrutinizersure14:19
DocScrutinizergood enough for an initial ssh key anyway14:19
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SpeedEvilAlso - busybox date outputs a very repetitive string for that. :)14:21
DocScrutinizerbtw I'd like to see this awesome clean system that quantisizes the %N of date14:21
DocScrutinizereeew messybox, you ruin my day14:22
dm8tbrif not, go with debian ssh ;o)14:22
SpeedEvilI know that I've had a system that quantised it to jiffies14:23
DocScrutinizerindeed, I always thought ssh-keygen takes care of generating enough entropy14:23
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: so, like, only >=1000 possible seeds for a dsa-key? terrible for an initial login key14:25
DocScrutinizer;-)14:25
SpeedEvil10014:26
SpeedEvilIt was some time ago.14:26
DocScrutinizerooh14:26
SpeedEvilHmm - the only 2.4 box I have up only has busybox14:27
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DocScrutinizerread; date %N; read; date %N; read;  date %N14:27
DocScrutinizerthen14:27
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DocScrutinizeranyway, I don't see ssh-keygen failing on low entropy. Maybe it's failing on too few entropy input14:28
DocScrutinizerI've seen ssh-keygen taking minutes to finsih14:29
SpeedEvilIt depends.14:29
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SpeedEvilIf the kernel drivers are not peoperly feeding back entropy - or it's not doing calls that cause those drivers to do things that cause those drivers to feed back entropy - it will block hard14:30
SpeedEvilAnd never complete14:30
DocScrutinizerdunno if it's built against /dev/[u]random14:30
DocScrutinizerthe standard adbice with ssh-keygen been since decades: "press keys on kbd, move mouse, so it can gather entropy faster"14:31
DocScrutinizeron certain architectures there may be rather few entropy sources available during installation14:32
DocScrutinizermaybe even none14:32
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SpeedEvilI've seen this before as a complaint on rackmount systems14:32
DocScrutinizer(just figure non-std kbd and touchpad drivers)14:33
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DocScrutinizeranyway all this are good reasons why you should either generate the keys on installation host system and then copy to target, or provide some entropy to target from host (dd if=/dev/urandom of=/installsource/tmp/entropy-for-ssh-keygen bs=32)14:36
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SpeedEvilOr configure the kernel to do things properly, and postpone keygen till after X comes up14:39
DocScrutinizeryeah :-D14:39
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DocScrutinizerwhy do you need a ssh key during installation anyway?14:41
Venemofuckyeah... guess what happened! the ideapad could boot the Fedora installation from my laptop's HDD... but then it can't boot the freshly-reinstalled MeeGo installation.14:41
SpeedEvildebateable14:41
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DocScrutinizerI'd not expect to install a machine on the other hemisphere, over unprotected TCP via internet ;-)14:42
Venemoand it also borked Fedora on my laptop's HDD, now it boots with a message saying /dev/sda3 is inconsistent and drops me into a "debug shell", whatever that is.14:42
DocScrutinizerouch14:43
Venemoobviously none of the commands I know (ls, whoami, etc.) works in this debug shell.14:43
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I feel with you14:43
DocScrutinizererr14:43
DocScrutinizerls shoud work14:43
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ysssI'm currently in au. I can make your kinky 'other hemisphere' dream come true if you want.14:43
SpeedEvilpossibly a bootloader shel?14:43
SpeedEvilhelp14:43
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Venemopossible.14:44
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DocScrutinizerdebug shell is usually init -s14:44
Venemoit says that I need to fsck /dev/sda3 manually, but there is no fsck in that shell.14:44
DocScrutinizeron sysV-init ;-P14:44
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DocScrutinizerunlikely14:44
DocScrutinizerthe shell shall know the cmds in /sbin14:45
DocScrutinizernot though those in /usr/sbin14:45
DocScrutinizerthe whole rationale behind /usr14:45
Venemonot even tab completions work in this crap14:45
SpeedEvile2fsck14:45
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SpeedEvilpwd, echo *, and other similar builtins?14:45
SpeedEvil(echo * = poor mans ls)14:46
DocScrutinizerVenemo: what does it answer if you enter the command foobar-FU14:46
VenemoSpeedEvil, can't test, I now booted to windows to share my pain with you.14:46
SpeedEvilah14:46
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: accept a pragmatic tip? boot a live CD, start a rescue system, run fsck from there14:47
VenemoDocScrutinizer, yeah, that's what I should do, but i have no spare CDs here.14:48
DocScrutinizerthat debug shell is a PITA usually14:48
Venemoin the meantime, I have no logical explanation why the ideapad didn't boot from the reinstalled MeeGo.14:48
Venemowhich was the whole point of this shit.14:49
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Venemohey CosmoHill :)14:49
DocScrutinizeranyway all hail to meego installer, which seems great for nuking existing system installations14:49
CosmoHillhello14:49
VenemoDocScrutinizer, that wasn't the meego installer14:50
DocScrutinizerooh14:50
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I just grabbed the hdd from my laptop, put it into the ideapad, and booted it. then shutdown and I put it back.14:50
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DocScrutinizerI uttered that rant as I seem to recall a complaint about meego installer being worse than win98 regarding grabbing all available disk soace and nuking it14:51
Venemothat I don't know.14:51
DocScrutinizerspace*14:51
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DocScrutinizerI should shut up, as - I mentioned it - I never have even touched meego installer14:52
Venemonow on my last try, it still does not want to generate that fucking rsa key.14:52
DocScrutinizergive it time14:53
DocScrutinizersome 5 minutes at least14:53
Venemoit's been running since 15 minutes.14:53
Venemoand doing nothing14:53
DocScrutinizerhmm14:53
DocScrutinizersounds like ass-kicking-time then14:54
Venemosure, whose ass should I kick?14:54
DocScrutinizermaintainer, system, installer? dunno14:54
DocScrutinizerbut I know you'll need heavy boots14:54
VenemoI see a slight possiblity that the ideapad's hdd is faulty, or became faulty when I unpowered it while it froze yesterday.14:55
VenemoI have no other hdd at hand to test.14:55
Venemomeh.14:55
DocScrutinizerunlikely14:55
Venemowell. it booted from my laptop's hdd, but it doesn't want to boot from its own hdd.14:55
DocScrutinizererrhmm14:56
DocScrutinizerI got it as "it hangs on ssh-keygen"14:56
Venemoor maybe it tries to generate a new ssh key at bootup time and fails? :D .D14:56
VenemoDocScrutinizer, that's the installer.14:56
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Venemosince I didn't find any way to get rid of the graphical boot screen and gather meaningful error messages, I dunno what's wrong with the installed MeeGo system.14:57
Venemoall I know is 1) noone is able to tell me how to get meaningful error messages out of meego's boot process 2) noone is able to tell me how to make the meego installer generate rsa keys on my ideapad14:58
DocScrutinizerI'm out, I think there are, like, 396 users in that channel who are more qualified then me to help you out14:59
VenemoDocScrutinizer, if there are, why aren't they saying anything? :P14:59
DocScrutinizermaybe they got a RL, unlike me15:00
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Venemo:D15:00
DocScrutinizerhell, my fav pub closed 60min early last night, due to lack of guests15:00
DocScrutinizerquiet earth syndrome15:01
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DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Earth15:01
Venemohehe15:01
DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quiet_Earth_(film) actually15:02
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Venemowell anyway15:02
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VenemoI wasted half my day on this shit already.15:02
VenemoI'm beginning to get angry.15:03
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: try installing a "standard" OS to the ideapad, sth that's known to work flawlessly15:13
DocScrutinizerto check if HDD plays nice15:13
DocScrutinizeror even boot to an auxiliary OS from USB stick or sth, and simply check the HDD from there15:14
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, I'll do that.15:14
VenemoDocScrutinizer, currently downloading sysrescd, will write that to a USB drive15:15
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DocScrutinizerman badblocks15:19
DocScrutinizer-nsv15:19
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rcgdoes anyone know how to disable the window transition animation in the meego netbook ux?15:29
rcgor at least set the duration to zero15:29
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Venemoyou won't believe this!15:31
VenemoI took out the battery, put it back15:31
Venemothen tried meego installer again15:31
Venemonow it didn't have any trouble generating ssh keys15:31
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rcgah.. the very famous fix your ssh issues by messing with the battery fix15:32
rcgscnr ;)15:32
Venemohah15:33
Venemowell, I thought about how I installed it yesterday and what I did differently today.15:34
rcgwell.. yeah.. as systems get more n more complex its kinda funny how some issues manifest15:35
rcgwell.. at least its funny for those not suffering from these issues ;)15:35
VenemoxD15:35
Venemoin any case, what I miss from the netbook UX is an option to always display (don't hide) the tabs15:37
rcgyeah.. and i would like to disable the animations.. they really get in the way when you wanna work quickly with multiple documents and essentially render that alt+tab shortcut useless15:38
Venemoagreed15:38
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Venemorcg, this is why I think gnome-shell may suit it better15:43
lcukrcg, there is a bug about that I filed a while ago15:44
lcukbug 1054415:44
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10544 nor, Medium, ---, tf, RESO WONTFIX, Alt-Tab app order not reflected in applications15:44
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Venemobtw lcuk, you are right - the ideapad is a very nice little computer15:52
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Venemolcuk, it's a pity that none of the UXes can harness its true potential15:52
lcukwho said they don't?15:52
VenemoI say.15:53
lcukVenemo, what do you sexpect its true potential to be?15:53
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Venemolcuk, a UX that is touch-friendly with apps that are touch-friendly15:54
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Venemoand a UI for quick multitasking15:55
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berndhsVenemo: yeah there doesn't seem to be one, meego or otherwise15:57
Venemodon't misunderstand me, I don't need much. I need a touch-friendly browser, chat app, email app, social network app, and a way to quickly switch between them.15:58
berndhsthe quick switch concept seems to be missing from touch UXs in general, I'm not sure why15:59
Venemoberndhs, hildon desktop had it, so cordia may be an option16:00
berndhsas long as people don't have to use that programming framework16:01
Venemoberndhs, yeah.16:02
Venemognome-shell is also nice16:02
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berndhsgnome shell is a disaster, when it comes to quick switching to a new application16:03
Venemonot on tablets16:03
berndhsand with gnome-shell, you depend on the gnome folks, who are basically religious fundamentalists16:03
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Venemoberndhs, yeah, just like the kde folks or anyone else16:04
berndhswell, its still a bad crowd to work with16:04
Venemoyeah, unfortunatels16:04
Venemoy16:04
berndhsanyone who disagrees with even small details is subject to disrespect and ad-hominem stuff16:05
berndhsi'm making my own UX, will take some time though16:06
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Venemoberndhs, you are?16:07
Venemoberndhs, tell me about it :)16:07
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berndhshttp://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/moui/index.php?title=Requirements_and_Goals16:08
berndhsfor boats, snowmobiles and farm tractors :)16:08
VenemoIVI? :P16:09
rcgVenemo.. yeah for working in the shell you have own shortcuts for switching tabs.. but i needed to work with quite a number of different pdf and openoffice documents recently16:10
berndhswell yes, but competing with BMW is not going to work16:10
rcghmm lcuk i see.. but that bug is about the order of entries in alt-tab and not the animation, right?16:10
lcukrcg the animation compounds the issue16:10
rcgaye ic16:11
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berndhsVenemo: the idea is that the device is not providing the entertainment http://berndhs.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/mobile-outdoor-user-interface/16:11
lcuki think a simple patch could be made, but IDK which lines to tweak16:11
rcglcuk: hmm yeah.. was looking for some config file option or theming or the like16:12
lcukI was on a bus the other day with its windows steamed up :) I drew a little sketch on the window and smiled16:12
CosmoHilllcuk: how many trains do you have?16:13
berndhslcuk: so you want the bus side windows interoperating with liqbase then ?16:13
Venemoberndhs, mhm :)16:14
lcukberndhs, lol16:14
lcuk:)16:14
lcukCosmoHill, jake has a load of trains16:14
CosmoHilllcuk: I'm thinking of making some software that could cataloug them16:14
npmberndhs: interesting. is moui your own personal thing or is there some corporate/money backing ... is that related to MARSSA16:15
berndhsnpm: it's mine, but I got the initial idea when talking to the MARSSA folks16:15
berndhsof course corporate backing would be most welcome16:16
npmi've been wanting to walk over to http://boingboing.net/2011/04/05/sir-richard-branson.html and sell them some meego16:16
npm(along with my services of course)16:16
npmhttp://www.virginoceanic.com/ ...16:17
berndhsyes those kinds of vehicles could use it too16:17
npmand they're in research phase so they might need some future-looking research-capable platforms to work with?16:17
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Venemo:)16:18
berndhssounds like a plan for meego-CE core with moui UX :)16:18
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npminfo [at] virginoceanic [dot] com16:24
npm...16:24
npmi think nokia's "swipe" idea is a pretty good way of doing things, but it's probably patented16:26
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npmso i was thinking maybe the swipe idea could be replaced by sensing the direction of any offscreen-to-onscreen swipes16:27
npmand then spinning a "virtual globe" on which all your applications are mapped16:27
npmthat way you have a sense of direction and layout and can navigate to where things are more easily16:28
npmsomebody should do something like this as GPL before someone patents more ideas....16:28
berndhshmm16:29
npm... basically you go into "virtual globe" mode (a 3d task switcher) wheever you get an offscreen-to-onscreen swipe16:29
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npmand then "focus" onto a different application and it goes fullscreen16:30
npmi guess since it's a square screen, perhaps use a virtual cube or something instead16:31
npm:-)16:31
npmi guess skinning means you could choose the "planet" onto which you organize all your apps16:32
berndhsso you start with a spinning galaxy and pick a planet ?16:33
yssswebs and playbook os (qnx based) already have swipes to manipulate task managerial actions16:34
yssswebos16:34
npmbut chances are you'd get sued if you do anything close16:34
npmi think the first place i'd want something like that is a hack on the tablet-ux task switching, which is the biggest pain in the ass ever16:35
lcuktablet ux already does swipes16:36
npmoh, let me find the invisible coil, specially placed in exactly where i might pick up the device... or accidentally power it off instead!16:36
lcukit is in hildon even moreso16:37
berndhsif you're wearing gloves swipes don't work16:37
berndhscan't tell if its a gesture or if you're cleaning the screen16:37
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npmlock the screen, then clean16:37
ysss….16:38
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berndhsor use a gesture that is less likely to happen accidentally, maybe a cross-swipe X16:38
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WarthogHi, What does ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸17:29
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arfoll  { name = "#meego-ivi"; chatnet = "Freenode"; autojoin = "yes"; },17:45
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lcukgood stuff arfoll17:49
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arfollyeah its a copy and paste fail...17:51
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Tumi_:D casual saturday21:09
Myrttimm21:11
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* TSCHAKeee casually wonders if we're ever going to see any wireless display tech working under Linux?21:18
Stskeepsvnc over ip?21:21
Stskeepsterminal mode?21:21
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TSCHAKeeesigh, no21:25
TSCHAKeeewhat ppl are calling Wi-Di or WHDI21:26
berndhsTSCHAKeee: you mean stuff like this http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/wtech/iwd/sb/CS-031109.htm ?21:28
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TSCHAKeeeberndhs: exactly21:28
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npmwill it meego? http://www.myviliv.com/eng/product/n5.asp http://www.myviliv.com/eng/product/x70ex.asp23:25
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thiagoare you missing a verb in your sentence? Or are you using "meego" as a verb?23:25
lcuknpm looks cool23:26
thiagoit looks like a regular netbook. Will probably run meego easily.23:27
thiagominus hw compatibility23:27
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lcuknpm, get one and add to http://wiki.meego.com/Developer_Devices23:28
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npmi'll pass. but hopefully somebody else will23:41
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